# Solid Electric Yellow Lab is Cross Bred with Red Zebra???



## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

I recently found someone looking to buy yellow labs, so I contacted them and told them about my holding female and how I can sell them some juvies once they are big enough.

They told me they would buy some from me as long as "they had no barring". Well, this made me start researching the quality of my labs b/c some of my smaller ones have barring. From what I read I found out that barring is NORMAL and NATURAL on the Lion Cove's variety...Can someone confirm this for me??

I ordered my fish online from a place with a great reputation; this is what they say about their yellow labs....

_*Outstanding and unique in color these Electric Yellows should be in every cichlid tank no matter what. Electric Yellow vary drastically in quality and have been ruined by large chain stores, however we take pride in our strain and know you will be pleased. Some people sell "Solid Electric Yellow" in which the females and the juveniles do not have barring but in order for this to be, the fish was actually cross bred with Red Zebras. Please do not confuse this with our "Lions Cove" variety. Our juveniles have barring and females might have a little as well. However our males turn out beautiful and as the females age their bars will disappear completely as well.* _

Sooooo, if "most" people think young yellow labs are not supposed to have bars (or that barring means bad quality), then I will never get my Lions Cove yellow labs sold!

Just thought I'd share this...and ask if this is accurate information?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Barring is natural but undesirable. I never heard anyone theorize that the only labs without bars are hybrids...that's a new one, LOL!

It's true that solid yellow labs (implying no dorsal stripe) are likely to be lab/estherae crosses. But barring on the body as an indication of an estherae hybrid? I don't think so. Estherae don't have barring themselves!


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

I agree, barring is common on young and especially female labs. This will go away over time. A less desireable marking on a lab is one that is perminant such as black sploches which may be a sign of inbreeding. Personally, I do not care for bearded males but have heard that this is just a sign of dominance.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

ladybugzcrunch said:


> I agree, barring is common on young and especially female labs. This will go away over time. A less desireable marking on a lab is one that is perminant such as black sploches which may be a sign of inbreeding. Personally, I do not care for bearded males but have heard that this is just a sign of dominance.


I thought barring was common on very young labs, I just wanted to make sure. Because the person I offered to sell some to was against buying any if they had barring (he made me feel like my quality was not good enough when I'm pretty sure it is!)

Susan


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'm not saying it's not common or that it's a sign of a hybrid.

But it also is possible AND common to have labs under 2 inches with and even under 1/2 inch with absolutely no barring whatsoever. What is uncommon is to have an adult male with no barring, beard or other black markings on the body.


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## trunk (Jun 25, 2010)

I always wondered about the bars too. The pictures on this site never seem to have them. But almost all my labs have them. One of my females, the one that almost always is holding... has dark blotchy bars not very attractive in my opinion but the male labs must love her...


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## Riceburner (Sep 3, 2008)

my 2 dominant male labs have full on beards all the time. One has the territory behind the "alien" rock and the other under the arch in the middle of the tank. I'll probably move the arch to the right side of the tank next WC.

http://s623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/riceburner63/Fish/?action=view&current=Africantank.mp4


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

I know exactly where you read that statement about crossbreeding. It baffled me as well. I have 9 adult yellow labs which I have obtained from 3 different LFS. One male shows barring; the dominent male is perfect with no barring and dark fins, one female shows no black at all, and the rest are somewhere in the middle. The so called "Solid Electric Yellow Morph" does not come from crossbreeding IMO. You just see these occasionally as you do barred fish. I do agree that you can obtain a solid yellow lab/zebra hybrid, but they have a distinctly different body shape than a pure bred lab and is easy to spot in most cases. I don't mind having some variety in my community, but it's funny that only my dominant male and best looking female have spawned so far. I will probably sell some of the labs with less desirable qualities as I plan to keep breeding, as everyone is looking for the distinct black dorsal and pelvic fins. This does raise one question:

*If I keep the more desirable fry and get rid of the adults that are solid yellow or barred, will inbreeding lead to undesirable traits?*


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

fish_addiction said:


> I know exactly where you read that statement about crossbreeding. It baffled me as well. I have 9 adult yellow labs which I have obtained from 3 different LFS. One male shows barring; the dominent male is perfect with no barring and dark fins, one female shows no black at all, and the rest are somewhere in the middle. The so called "Solid Electric Yellow Morph" does not come from crossbreeding IMO. You just see these occasionally as you do barred fish. I do agree that you can obtain a solid yellow lab/zebra hybrid, but they have a distinctly different body shape than a pure bred lab and is easy to spot in most cases. I don't mind having some variety in my community, but it's funny that only my dominant male and best looking female have spawned so far. I will probably sell some of the labs with less desirable qualities as I plan to keep breeding, as everyone is looking for the distinct black dorsal and pelvic fins. This does raise one question:
> 
> *If I keep the more desirable fry and get rid of the adults that are solid yellow or barred, will inbreeding lead to undesirable traits?*


There is no question that a Lab without any black in the finnage is a hybrid. There are many of these that look exactly like Labs, but without the black.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Fogelhund said:


> There is no question that a Lab without any black in the finnage is a hybrid. There are many of these that look exactly like Labs, but without the black.


OK, I might agree with you on that. I have just seen a lot of hybrids that were advertised as hybrids that had a distinctly different body shape than L. Caeruleus. I took a very close look at my labs last night when I got home, and the smallest one does have a very faint black stripe on the dorsal fin. It has taken some time to show up though. Does anyone know what the risks of inbreeding are? I have 9 adults and 9 fry that I'm sure will turn out very nice due to the quality of the parents. How many fry should I keep, and how many adults should I sell? I would like to eventually end up with a breeding group of 6-8 nice specimens.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

My labs have grown up to have no bars now.. my dominate male will sometimes get a smokey face but it always goes away after a couple of days. I haven't measured him, but he's definitely full grown and at least 5 inches. He's purty too, lol... I used to have a lot of caves in my tank and I felt like the hiding in the dark caves was making my labs stress out and have black faces. I took all the black rocks/caves out of my tank and put in white texas holey rock instead. The rock change has made a big difference in my fish's behavior and color.


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## finaddiction (Aug 3, 2011)

fish_addiction said:


> *If I keep the more desirable fry and get rid of the adults that are solid yellow or barred, will inbreeding lead to undesirable traits?*


also interested in what people think about this??? i'm sure someone on this site has tried this already???


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Inbreeding does not create defects but it can reveal defects that are already present. Outcrossing is not necessarily better since you can introduce defects.

If you select for clean yellow fish with black fins and a complete dorsal stripe your fry are likely to improve over several generations.

The solid yellow fish (with no dorsal stripe) are not labs and selective breeding will not make them labs.


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