# My two fish pairs are finally getting along..



## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

I had bad luck with my other two fish pairs. The only one that survived is a bumblee. The one as you all know got stuck in a piece of rock, then the other just died.

But these two fish get along just like two watermelons in a patch. Im very surprised because they are known to be agressive. I have the one bumblebee. The other one isnt quite bumblebee- its golden color with orange stripe.

Could this be because they are similar color they get along so well?

Or is it that they are the same gender? Im not sure what gender they are anyway.

But its nice they get along so well. Never seen two chiclids so mellow with each other.


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

africans are not pairing fish....this is probably why your first "pair" didnt do so how.

How big is the tank?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Mbuna are harem breeders, they do not "pair". This means each male of a species requires multiple females. If you try housing a male and female of a species alone, you usually end up with a dead fish - sometimes two dead fish if they become ill from the stress.

Adult crabro are dimorphic, meaning males and females do not look alike. They are also quite large. The aggression doesn't begin until they near sexual maturity, usually between 2 and 3 inches.

What size tank is this?

Are these the only two fish you have?


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## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

Im not trying to pair fish together. I just have a 40 gallon breeder tank and I dont want to overcrowd the fish just yet.

But they get along so swimmingly (pun intended), that I dont see any danger. Could this be because they are the same gender or what? They dont show any agression. They take turns during feeding.

Occasional chasing but nothing like it was before with the other 2 fish I had.


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

It isnt a good idea to have just 2 fish of each species is all.....one will bully the other especially if male and female to the point where it may dye or become ill along with many other things from agression....its a good idea too have multiple females and 1 male for each species inhabiting the tank as to focus the aggression from the males between many females and not just one.


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## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

BRANT13 said:


> It isnt a good idea to have just 2 fish of each species is all.....one will bully the other especially if male and female to the point where it may dye or become ill along with many other things from agression....its a good idea too have multiple females and 1 male for each species inhabiting the tank as to focus the aggression from the males between many females and not just one.


I see yer point. But the pet store doesnt tel me the gender of the fish, so I dont know. All I know is they seem to be so in tune with each other.

I may add another fish to break any tension too. Dont want to overcrowd the tank because its not very big.


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

most places wont sex fish for you....it can be difficult when young....but the point is there should be multiple fish per species being stocked in the tank.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

RichmondBread said:


> Im not trying to pair fish together.


No, but you are keeping them in a _group of two_ AND you're referring to them as "pairs". That's not the way these fish should be kept. :wink:

There are dwarf species or more docile species that you _can_ keep in a proper group size in this tank. Bumblebees aren't one of those species...

What are the dimensions of the tank?

What size are the crabros?

They may not have reached sexual maturity yet. They could be the same sex - it's impossible to say. Having just two of them may prevent them from taking on the adult colouration they would have if they were housed in a proper sized tank with more of their species.

For two crabros of any sex to be coexisting seemingly happily in a 40G tank, odds are they are either both females or NOT sexually mature. (And I've seen females behave just as viciously as males...)


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## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

Well its a 40 Gallon Long Breeder Tank

The fish are about 5 inches long.

I didnt plan on just having 2 fish, I just bought a few at a time mostly because ya know, they can be expensive. But out of the two *** tried , these have gotten along the best. Not sure if thats again because of the similar color they are, or because of gender.

Ill probably add a new fish next week. I have to change the water again too.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I would highly recommend trading those fish in for fish more appropriate for your tank size.

Are they both crabro?

This tank size is appropriate for some of the dwarf mbuna, or some of the more docile mbuna - like Yellow labs or Rusties! (Even a breeding group of haps or peacocks - as long as you stick with the smaller more docile ones!) The bumblebees don't fit into either category, and I'd be very very hesitant to throw another fish in with them. They might not make a good welcoming committee.

Anytime you change the dynamics in a tank by adding OR removing fish, you really have to be careful. You aren't getting off to a good start stock wise with this tank, so I wouldn't expect adding another fish to go well.

Bumblebees are one of the most notoriously aggressive mbuna you could have chose...Right up there with auratus and kenyi...None of those 3 species are suitable for this size tank.

These fish (cichlids in general) are very territorial. The upper portions of the tank don't matter to them at all - they see the footprint of the tank as 'real estate', and they set up camp. At 5 inches, these fish have already claimed this entire tank to themselves. Odds are very high that they aren't going to welcome any newcomers.

When you're forced to work with less space, you have to be really careful choosing your species. It can mean the difference between disaster and success.


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## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

The Pet Store Tag on the tank said 20 Gallons or bigger is suitable for Carbo types.

I have a long tank, which does mean I have more space width wise. But I dont know what to do right now. Maybe I could sell the two I have and just start over.

People told me I needed a 75 gallon or bigger, but for fish 5 inches long, that seemed a bit extreme.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

It doesn't have anything to do with the size of the fish...It's all about the attitude of the fish.

Pet store tags are often wrong. They are out to make a sale. If your fish kill each other, you'll come back for more fish.

What are the exact dimensions of your tank? Unless it's 5 foot in length, you need to go with different stock. If it's a standard 40G breeder, you can bet that one of those two fish has already claimed the entire footprint of the tank as MINE!

I would start over. :thumb:


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## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

If I start over, what kinds can I get besides dwarf chiclids?

How about red zebras?


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

You are not going to be happy with the bumblebees. Red zebras are kinda mean too and might kill each other. Pet Smart and other chain stores often sell the most aggressive mbuna and fail to indicate accurate descriptions of their needs. That is how I ended up with my kenyi. They were sold to me as a trio for a 20g hexagon tank. After doing a little research, I learned that not only are they going to get 6 inches long thus unsuitable for my wee tank but one of them was a hybrid so who knows how big it will get. I had to either get rid of the fish or get a bigger tank. Your bumblebee can get 8 inches long and the males are kinda ugly in my opinion. A 40g breeder would look wonderful with demasoni. They are very attractive and do well in a 36 inch species tank. The females are pretty as well as the males. Good luck to you.


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## mthigpen_02 (Dec 29, 2008)

Not all of these will work for that size tank but it should give you a nice place to start looking.
http://www.paulspastry.com/Fish/Dwarf_Species_Malawi.pdf

After you find a few you like, look them up in the profile section http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/ and then come back here to ask if they should work.

Hope this helps.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Just red zebras in a 40G breeder???

That might work, with a strong emphasis on the word _might_.

You'd have to get really, really lucky with your male / female ratio...No more than one male to at least 3 or 4 females.

But even then, you may have some very, very stressed fish.


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## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

Thank you those are some beautiful lookin' fish. I may try and sell my fish on craigslist for local pick up and all . Ya know, Im getting attached to them.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Just keep in mind that even if you do go with the red zebra single species tank, it may not work out. That's a whole lotta personality to confine to a 40G tank, but as I said, if you get really lucky with your male/female ratio, you might pull it off.

You're aware of the potential for problems. If any of the females start looking highly stressed (clamped fins, trying to hide behind intake tubes or at the top of the tank sideways, etc.) you'll have to pull the aggressors really quick to save the ones who are being bullied.

I do believe you stand a better chance as a single species tank, but I'm not _sure_ it will work! :thumb:

Stressed fish usually lead to sick fish, if not dead fish. So if you're going to get attached to them, you might keep this in mind. There's nothing quite like coming home to find your favourite fish dead because you didn't change the stocking up in time. The dynamics of a tank can change on a dime, and sometimes the only warning we get is a dead fish.

There are lots of beautiful species out there...I dare say that you might find many of them alot more appealing and entertaining than red zebras!

Zebra types are notorious for their aggression and unpredictable behaviour. They can be more trouble than they are worth, in many situations.


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