# Energy usage / cost!!



## slater32 (Apr 27, 2015)

Im from San Diego & cost of electricity has recently increased, this is more of a vent post but open to an magical suggestions.
We have had 2 tanks 125 & a 90 malawi tanks setup for a few years. During the joy of the hobby we decided on the 125 clearer life uniquarium needed additional filtration so we bout a used 5gal bucket sized eheim canister to supplement the built-in filtration pump. No big deal as far as monthly electricity bills. Then the 90 came shortly after & we initially went with a eheim 2217 & recently added a aquatop 500 which made a huge difference & have crystal clear tank...
Well my electricity bills during the non ac months can range between $100-$150. During the recent hot summer I had a few months where my bill was $500'sh!!!
*** totally have turned into my fathers son & constantly having to tell everyone in the house to TURN-OFF the **** light!!!! CONSTANT leave a room or bathroom & they leave the light on!
Ok, we being the electricity police for a month the recent bill has $250.
Everytime I got a bill as of recently it would turn into a huge family fight, about leaving light on, fans on when nobody is in the room, running the ac at 72 when I'm not home......
Called SDG&E many times as something didn't add-up & they kept telling me it was the ac due to the warmer months. Well enough was enough & convinced them that costs are still significantly up & there's no ac running in the recent bill equation.
Had my SDG&E come out & access where the increase has come from & they determined the 2 tanks with, totally between the 2 , 4 pumps for the filters, 2 eheim 200w heaters, led lights which weren't even on when he did the testing.....
Determined that the 2 tanks are the culprit & are roughly half of my household total energy usage for the month. Shut down the tanks & watt levels dropped 500w. From his calculations determined the tanks were costing me $135-$142 a month to run!
Seriously contemplating transferring the 6fish & 5cats from the 90 to the 125 & ditching the 90tall grow-out tank which really isn't even a grow-out anymore & just another tank with fish!
Im sure theres no magic answer but would love some thoughts...


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

Solar? Not saying solar necessarily for the house but a panel or two to power the tanks 500 watts isn't that big it might cost a pretty penny at the beginning but what would it save you? Lowe's has a .4 kilowatt kit for 2 grand but that would end up paying for itself in 6 months with having a $500 bill due to tanks


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

If you run the AC at 72 when not home, what temp is it at when you are home?


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## slater32 (Apr 27, 2015)

BillD said:


> If you run the AC at 72 when not home, what temp is it at when you are home?


I was just cracking a joke there as the wife feels 78 in not acceptable & still way too hot in the house....
Stat is set at 78 & I'm comfortable with that. I was dead set on the added high costs must be from her adjusting the stat setting to her ice-cube comfort pleasure while I'm not home....
She works from home & is always here! I was just saying that when if at work & not around they have the ac in turbo mode as we have had many extensive hot months during the summer & everyone was blaming the ac for the cost increase.
Truth of the matter is us slowly adding, canister here, canister there, a few air pumps, overall is contributing to putting us into a higher tier cost per kw & ultimately is costing $140 a month to run 2 tanks.... Not the end of the world but seems excessive & you have to ask yourself is it worth it....


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## dusanmal (Jan 24, 2016)

As an engineer and physicist I'll add one item you have not mentioned about your aquariums: lights. If you do not use LED lights, even for large tanks with dual filtration...lights electricity usage will likely dominate all other consumption. Than, heaters (considering that you are in warm San Diego, way second). Example: your canister filter 2217 is rated at 20W... whatever your KWh cost is, one filter costs you that much in 50hrs of operation. Where I live KWh is 0.17$ so cost of running it is about 2.5$ per month... if all your filters are of similar consumption, that part costs you about 10$ per month... way below 100$+ you estimate. Now that we have cheap and accessible LED lights , switching to them is the greatest electricity saving for aquariums. If you do have LED lights, than something is wrong-check one aquarium appliance at the time with power meter (available for about 30$ at hardware stores) and see if some are drawing (way)more than in their specifications. Though, I still think it is the lights (200w of lights over each aquarium would make 50$ monthly consumption easily).


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## Handyjoe (Jan 11, 2015)

Rob, I think SDG&E is gouging its customers. My last month's bill was around $450. We don't have AC, and hardly turning on our heater. I do admit that with all my 7 tanks (from 20 to 150 gal.) running, the energy bill adds up. But going from tier 2 to tier 3, it takes no time at all! Why even bother to have tier 2? The KWs allocation for Tier 2 is tiny. 
The wife has been complaining every times we get the bill. Contemplating to install Solar panels. At the same time, I am also contemplating getting out of the fish hobby altogether.
Joe.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

a quick way to get data on how much consumption any electrical device is using is to buy a Kill-a-watt tool. http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html

These can quickly identify the culprit(s). Things that my cheap friends have told me to look at are the parasitic draws you have from all our electronic devices (TV, computers, stereo stuff) Just shutting many of these off with the remote does not stop power consumption.

Our electric costs have jumped in the northeast in the past couple of years also.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Wow, I did some research and your electrical rates are really high. Your summertime on peak rate is $0.46 per kwH. If you just used that rate your 500 watts would cost you $171 per month. If you used the lowest rate (winter Off peak) it is $139 per month. Your actual rate is somewhere in between.

Compare that to where I live where we pay $.20 on peak (7 am to 7 pm) and $.09 off peak. 
Andy


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## smitty (May 7, 2004)

The rates that people are paying is really b.s.. But take another look at your bill and see where the bill is further inflated by taxes and distribution fees. I really laugh at the distribution fees because they started popping up on bills when regulators agency said they would not give the electric suppliers additional money for rate increases. But they allowed them to add a so called distribution fee. My father said he was paying electric bills for 30 years without a distribution fee. With that fee you would think they are delivering it by vehicle as oppose to letting it just flow threw the pipes. I can rant on and on. But after having your paycheck taxes 30-35% then paying taxes and unjustified fees for evrything else we spend our money on. Americans end up giving 50-60% of their pay to taxes and in the end in america you never can own your home.


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## RobsFishTank (Nov 11, 2014)

nodima said:


> a quick way to get data on how much consumption any electrical device is using is to buy a Kill-a-watt tool. http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html
> 
> These can quickly identify the culprit(s). Things that my cheap friends have told me to look at are the parasitic draws you have from all our electronic devices (TV, computers, stereo stuff) Just shutting many of these off with the remote does not stop power consumption.
> 
> Our electric costs have jumped in the northeast in the past couple of years also.


I got one of those meters. It was an eye-opener.


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## slater32 (Apr 27, 2015)

Shut down the second tank & for a few months now on average monthly bill went from $350 to $150 by shutting down the one tank...
One tank is plenty....


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## slater32 (Apr 27, 2015)

Handyjoe said:


> Rob, I think SDG&E is gouging its customers. My last month's bill was around $450. We don't have AC, and hardly turning on our heater. I do admit that with all my 7 tanks (from 20 to 150 gal.) running, the energy bill adds up. But going from tier 2 to tier 3, it takes no time at all! Why even bother to have tier 2? The KWs allocation for Tier 2 is tiny.
> The wife has been complaining every times we get the bill. Contemplating to install Solar panels. At the same time, I am also contemplating getting out of the fish hobby altogether.
> Joe.


Hey Joe! Hope all is well!
Shut down that 90glass you saw when you came over.
My bill on average has gone from $350 this winter with no a/c, to $150-$160 after shutting down the tank.
One tank is plenty besides, we still have a 30 breeder tank & a 10 hospital going more times than not along with the 125gl


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## Handyjoe (Jan 11, 2015)

slater32 said:


> Handyjoe said:
> 
> 
> > Rob, I think SDG&E is gouging its customers. My last month's bill was around $450. We don't have AC, and hardly turning on our heater. I do admit that with all my 7 tanks (from 20 to 150 gal.) running, the energy bill adds up. But going from tier 2 to tier 3, it takes no time at all! Why even bother to have tier 2? The KWs allocation for Tier 2 is tiny.
> ...


Hi Rob. Everything is fine except the SDG&E bill. Still high even I am gradually shutting down tanks. Maybe not fast enough. Good to hear you can get your bill under 200 bucks!
Want to give away all my convict cichlids (12?) if anyone wants them. Also going to sell all my F1 Moba, a tough decision for me. Take care!


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

1. Turning off lights won't do a darned thing unless you have some 300 watt incandescent floodlights from the 70s floating around.

2. Pumps cost a LOT to run. Just ask anyone with a pool. Do you really need so many pumps running 24 hours a day? I doubt it. An air pump costs waaaay less to run, when it comes to aeration. A filter is only as good as the media you run it through. If you have that much cost I would get a sump and put a whole ton of mattenfilter foam in it instead - that way for every cent in power you use, you are sure to be getting your money's worth.

3. More salt, less heat. I can hear people crying already that salt is unnatural and wrong. Hey, salt works, especially if you have the heat somewhat lot. Some fish do very poorly outside a small range of water parameters, but in aquaria they are the exception these days. Africans are very tough and adaptable. They don't need very high heat. I don't even use the heater at all for years now. In san franciso you will need to have a heater, but you can probably drop the temp a few degrees. You can also insulate the fish room like crazy and then put a little space heater in there.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

It really depends on the type of lighting.

4 x 54 watt HO T5's is the equivalent of a 250 watt heater (you have to include the ballast power draw in addition to the lamp draw), only it runs for 8-10 hours a day for most people. That's 2-3kwH every day. An LED fixture that's not a high end reef light will be considerably lower and have much less of an impact on power bills.

A return pump for a sump is going to be higher wattage than any canister filter.

Reason is that a canister filter actually is pumping against very low resistance. It only has to deal with the effect of friction in the lines thanks to the closed loop siphon effect. This negates any effort to fight the force of gravity.

A sump is an open system and the pump has to fight the force of gravity along with half of the friction that a canister does. This means the motor must have a higher torque in order to push the water back up to the tank at the same flow rate as the canister. More torque= more wattage= higher energy bill.

You are correct that an air pump is more efficient than any water pump and a good alternative if you are looking to reduce power draw. But you do lose a lot of filtration efficiency and ease of use. Not to mention the extra noise.

Not sure where you are going with the add salt instead of heating the aquarium thing. Adding salt to the water all the time is not going to prevent any disease and will not increase fish activity or encourage spawning like keeping them at a proper temperature will. Salt should be used only when necessary to treat. It's the change in salinity that harms the pathogens. Keeping the same salinity all the time just encourages the growth of salt tolerant pathogens.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Well do you like to argue don't you.

1. Of course salt prevents disease. Not going to argue though.

2. Talking about house lights obviously.

3. Pumps can be whatever strength you want! And do you keep your canisters above your tank? lol. Adding more filtration is the heart of the idea, though. If you want to argue about that then fine - get a fluidized sand bed attached to a canister, ditch all the other pumps. Bridge the tanks together. Done.

4. You don't lose filtration by using a bubbler. You gain air obviously. The point was that you can get more filtration with less power by having more media, but you still need to have air.

I had 100 africans in a 150 gallon tank bridged to another tank with fry. All I had was a fluval canister and a bubbler and a little hob on the breeder tank (and a few plants) and water quality was great and fish were healthy.

I guess I will just put you on ignore.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I don't mean to argue with you Fish Jerk. And I am trying to be as respectful as possible. But your advice is unrelated to the topic, ill-conceived, and generally detrimental to the hobby and should not go unchallenged.

1. Salt does not prevent disease. It is a treatment for disease. It works by changing the osmotic pressure on an organism. Simpler organisms cannot handle sudden changes in osmotic pressure and can die as a result. But if you keep the osmotic pressure constant all the time, organisms that thrive at that osmotic pressure will do so. All you are doing is replacing one type of pathogen with another and losing the value of any treatment. But what that has to do with the topic of energy usage is pretty much a stretch.

2. ? We are talking about aquariums. Not house lights. this is cichlid-forum. Not Houselights-forum.

3. Your response is nonsensical. While there is a certain amount of leeway to how much flow one can put on a tank it doesn't change the fact that if you want your sump or your canister filter to maintain an equal flow rate, the sump pump is going to be consuming more energy. You seem to have missed the point about the difference between open and closed systems. Not sure where you think you need to add more filtration. The topic is about energy usage, not adding more filtration. Adding a fluidized bed filter after a canister filter is a bad idea for many reasons. 1. Many canisters don't have enough torque to lift the sand well (there is that difference between open and closed systems again) and 2. Most of the oxygen is going to be stripped out of the water going through the canister, making the sand filter useless. 
Connecting two tanks together works fine. But this is best done on an open system with an overflow on each tank connected to a central sump so you are back to a low electrical efficiency sump with an even bigger pump.

4. Adding anything doesn't lose filtration. But REPLACING a canister filter or HOB with an air operated filter will cause you to lose filtration efficiency. Not sure how you can gain electrical efficiency by adding another electrical device.

Your responses to this thread are almost nonsensical and don't seem to be related to the topic. We should all put you on ignore.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

It doesn't matter that the canister is under the aquarium; it's the siphon effect. Basically, the water on the suction side is negating the lift on the discharge side. Only friction and direction changes come into play. If you kept the hose the same length and all the same fittings, you could theoretically put the canister anywhere and have the same flow rate from the canister.

This doesn't happen with a sump system. The return pump is drawing from an open chamber and doing all the lifting itself.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

dledinger said:


> It doesn't matter that the canister is under the aquarium; it's the siphon effect. Basically, the water on the suction side is negating the lift on the discharge side. Only friction and direction changes come into play. If you kept the hose the same length and all the same fittings, you could theoretically put the canister anywhere and have the same flow rate from the canister.
> 
> This doesn't happen with a sump system. The return pump is drawing from an open chamber and doing all the lifting itself.


Once again.

1. You can have any level of flow you want. You get less filtration for your flow but more filtration per flow will make up for it. The guy can't POSSIBLY need as much flow as he has now for filtration alone. Most of the money is WASTED with the only benefit being oxygen, which can be gotten much much cheaper. Even if it costs twice the energy per gallon it will be worth it if you filter twice as much. And you will filter more like 50 times as much depending entirely on how you do things.

2. A sump is probably easier, but it's not the only way to add more filtration to the loop if you really think you will spend more energy on a sump. Note: you can position a sump however you want to, it doesn't need to be far down just below the outlet...and I seriously doubt it will cost much more anyway - probably less. Because in the current arrangement you have drag from the media pushing. You don't have that in a sump, do you? You just pump water out now force it.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Fish Jerk said:


> You get less filtration for your flow but more filtration per flow will make up for it. .


That should read you get less total flow with fewer pumps (obviously) but in a sump you can make the filtration as elaborate as you want and get much more filtration per gallon you pump.

For the part about "now pushing" - since your sump is open topped, it is really gravity that is pushing your water through the media. This is possible because of the larger surface area. It's very easy to lose half or more of your flow in a canister this way even before they need servicinf. Sometimes they are practically stopped when I service them.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

My comment was strictly related to the efficiency of a pump inside of a canister, and why the head is calculated different than in a sump. It wasn't to counter anything you said.

The real truth of the matter is there are a million things in a house that use far more electricity than his aquariums. This is why his bill is $500 when the AC runs in the summer.

I know a little about electricity. I teach the National Electrical Code for a living.

To the OP, I think the estimate from the power company is high.

Always clean your dryer lint trap, and check the vent while you're at it
Run full loads of laundry. Cold is good if you can get away with it and it will make your clothes last longer
Cut back the thermostat on your hot water heater a couple degrees at a time, until you can't go anymore
Consider letting your dishes air dry instead of using the dry cycle
Check your heating and air filters regularly. If you don't replace them at least vacuum them.
Put occupancy sensors in your bathrooms so you don't have to worry about who left the light on
Check weatherstripping on all your windows and doors
Use your curtains/ blinds
If there is no one home during the day, use a programmable thermostat...bigger the offset for longer the better. 78-72 during the day, and back up at night, is a tiny offset and probably costs you money
Be careful with the bathroom exhaust fan; especially in the winter.
Don't cook on the range unless it's for the whole family...don't EVER cook a single serving of anything in the oven.
No more 45 minute showers for the kiddos...
LED lighting (for the house) is now affordable

My bill went to $550 (up from ~130ish) a couple years ago when the kids were on spring break. I was dumbfounded. I am the frugal master! What might the cause have been? Burritos. Yes, the kids decided that burritos were great to snack on during the day. So they would preheat the oven...play on the video game for while...then heat a single burrito. Had to be in the oven because the outside is crispier that way. About the time the oven would cool down, another kid would come along the same idea. Over and over again all day long, all week long. That came to a quick end and now those things happen in the microwave. Range = 14Kw, microwave = 1kw. Range takes 10-15 minutes to heat up and a few to cook. Microwave takes a minute and 30. The math speaks for itself.

It's not hard to shave a lot of money from an electric bill....it's just a matter of what you're willing to cut.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Oh....and if you can find a way to let the house get a bit warmer you'll save a bit on aquarium heating, too. With the AC on you're cooling the tanks just to heat them (and the room) back up.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Did I get suckered into a resolved thread? I think I did.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Thanks dledinger, It was resolved until Fish Jerk put his two sense in and muddied the whole issue. I agree that there are other factors in a house that really affect the electric bill. But a fish tank (when looked at as a whole unit) can have a significant impact as many of the devices are running 24 hours a day. Death by a thousand cuts so to say.

It's also an easier target for reduction as aquariums are luxury items and not necessities. Can you believe there are households out there that don't even have aquariums? Some people (spouses) think they don't even need one. Inconceivable!

Andy


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## Granamyr (Dec 16, 2015)

Narwhal72 said:


> Can you believe there are households out there that don't even have aquariums? Some people (spouses) think they don't even need one. Inconceivable!


Why would someone be so cruel as to not have an aquarium? That's just wrong....

Is there a way that you can set it so certain peoples posts are hidden?


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

You can add them as a foe. So then you would not be able to see their posts. Unfortunately, you then can't see what they are saying to others in the conversation either so it doesn't help much.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

We need down voting....like reddit!

Joking, of course. To look at this more optimistically, there's a lot of good discussion in this thread that may not have come up otherwise.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

http://saltwateraquariumblog.com/aquari ... ump-costs/










There's a big range of pump efficiencies, and also it is not easy to find a list of wattage for various cannisters. Some give you 5 gallons pushed per watt, some up to 20. The list is a little out of date though. I think there's some more efficient pumps around these days. It's crazy to think you might spend 200 to own a pump then pap almost 1000 a year to keep it going!

Back in the day most of your saltwater aquarium's circulation came from the return pump if you had one. Things like a skimmer don't require much water flow at all. I think many other forms of filtration don't really need much actual flow either. If you have lots of flow in the tank already (which can be had more cheaply with powerheads) then you can probably get away with out of those very low watt pumps that do 160 gph.

I was thinking of a sump but for max efficiency and ease of construction, I think that having a water bridge to a smaller tank at the same level is better. All you'd really need is inlet at one end and outlet at the other and a bunch of layers of poret foam in between. Maybe a light and a few plants in the middle area - you could use that for fry as well - even set it up so they can be rescued there if sucked into the filter.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

That's not really a practical idea for a normal home aquarium.

Not many people would want to have a smaller tank sitting at eye level next to their nice display tank with an unsightly water bridge connecting them and the smaller tank full of filter media and a pump.

Not saying it won't work. Just that it's not really practical.


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## RobsFishTank (Nov 11, 2014)

The two of you were both wrong on a couple of things and just because someone has a different opinion or might be misinformed is not grounds for saying you're going to ignore someone. You both were just stating facts as you saw them. The posturing was just not necessary and a bit misguided.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

RobsFishTank said:


> The two of you were both wrong on a couple of things and just because someone has a different opinion or might be misinformed is not grounds for saying you're going to ignore someone. You both were just stating facts as you saw them. The posturing was just not necessary and a bit misguided.


It's better to ignore someone than to argue with them. I didn't jump in and correct someone four times while I was wrong about it. I did not make any real claims for that matter, I was just trying to figure things out. This is one of three threads of the same guy doing the same thing. If you don't KNOW something you should not be pedantic towards people, period.

And he clearly hardly bothered to read what I say and just looked for chance to criticize. Just look at the comment about lights. In the first post OP specifically says he's telling people to turn them off.

So I think it's best to just drop it, oil and water or fire and ice - whatever you want to call it we are not compatible I guess.


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## Pandemonium (Jul 13, 2020)

If the prices increase or even though you compare the energy bills to see how much in reality you consume. BTW, it depends on the country. As I know, a friend of mine tried to save energy in the UK. Despite this, he also paid huge bills, so he found a website to compare energy prices and they offered the service to switch to a cheaper supplier. So, he tries, now, he saves 100 monthly.


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