# Siphon break on canister filter....



## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

What size hole and how far under the water line is your siphon break? It has been a while since I drilled my intake to my canisters and can't remember how big a hole and how far under the water line. I have a new FX5 coming sometime next week and was wanting to drill the return line on it and on my aquatop.

Does the hole size depend on the power of the pump? I would think a 925gph pump would probably need a bit bigger of a hole otherwise it may still pump but just pump a lot of air with the water.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I've never drilled a hole for a siphon break on a canister filter and never will. I see no valid reason to do it. On a sump I could understand doing it so you don't drain your tank into the sump during a power outage.

Why would you drill a hole in either the intake or output lines of a canister filter?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Deeda said:


> I've never drilled a hole for a siphon break on a canister filter and never will. I see no valid reason to do it. On a sump I could understand doing it so you don't drain your tank into the sump during a power outage.
> 
> Why would you drill a hole in either the intake or output lines of a canister filter?


If gasket leaks or a leak somewhere else. The leak can snowball really quickly sometimes. What am I missing? I would prefer not to.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I haven't experienced a major leak on a canister filter due to a seal failure or improper installation BUT I do keep a couple of my canister filters in small kitty litter type pans in the event they could possibly leak due to my negligence when reassembling them.

I also use worm style hose clamp on the hose to fitting connections to prevent air from infiltrating or a hose from popping off.

Honestly, if drilling a hole in the return or intake was the standard procedure, I'm sure the manufacturer would have suggested doing so in the instructions. My biggest fear in doing that would be the potential to damage the pump head in the event of no water flow. It would probably be cheaper to replace that part then to deal with a major flood in the house but I don't really think it is a legitimate reason to drill the canister lines.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Deeda said:


> I haven't experienced a major leak on a canister filter due to a seal failure or improper installation BUT I do keep a couple of my canister filters in small kitty litter type pans in the event they could possibly leak due to my negligence when reassembling them.
> 
> I also use worm style hose clamp on the hose to fitting connections to prevent air from infiltrating or a hose from popping off.
> 
> Honestly, if drilling a hole in the return or intake was the standard procedure, I'm sure the manufacturer would have suggested doing so in the instructions. My biggest fear in doing that would be the potential to damage the pump head in the event of no water flow. It would probably be cheaper to replace that part then to deal with a major flood in the house but I don't really think it is a legitimate reason to drill the canister lines.


Yeah...I would prefer not to and have never had a canister leak, knock on wood, but I just installed new hardwood floors. I just don't want to take a chance and I do keep up with evaporation as I do a lot of water changes. I was thinking about a 1/8" or 3/16" hole about 1" below the water line. If for some reason there was a blowout with one of my hose clamps and the water started to run out it would continue to drain all the way down to where the strainer is in the tank which would be roughly 50-60 gallons of water. I have had sump set systems in the past when I was doing reef tanks and was not really worried about it because the overflows were only a couple inches below the water line whereas the strainer on the intake side of the canister is 3/4 way down the tank.

LOL...I am probably overthinking this but after spend A LOT of money on new floors I am just trying to be careful.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I understand your concern that the possibility could exist that the filter may someday leak and ruin your finished floor. I would definitely use a container to hold the canister and one that was large enough to contain a few gallons of water in case the filter leaked.

An 1/8" hole should work well about 2" down from the normal water line. You may have to check it frequently to make sure it doesn't clog up with debris or calcium buildup.

When you do your water changes, you will either have to shut the canister filter off so it won't draw in any air or you can make a plug that would temporarily cover the hole and leave the canister filter running. Even a piece of vinyl hose can be fashioned to slip over the hole during the water changes.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Deeda said:


> I understand your concern that the possibility could exist that the filter may someday leak and ruin your finished floor. I would definitely use a container to hold the canister and one that was large enough to contain a few gallons of water in case the filter leaked.
> 
> An 1/8" hole should work well about 2" down from the normal water line. You may have to check it frequently to make sure it doesn't clog up with debris or calcium buildup.
> 
> When you do your water changes, you will either have to shut the canister filter off so it won't draw in any air or you can make a plug that would temporarily cover the hole and leave the canister filter running. Even a piece of vinyl hose can be fashioned to slip over the hole during the water changes.


Yeah...everything is shut off during water changes except my lights which I need them on so I can get all the waste. You think 1/8" would suffice on a filter that pumps as hard as the FX5? I am thinking around 600gph with media. Want to make sure it is big enough to actually break the siphon. I know it would work on my aquatop for sure.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Another thing to consider Razor; I use the FX5 to drain my tank for water changes. It is fast. Also, I don't know if you plan on a spray bar, but, I haven't vacuumed my tank in 8+months. I just drain, fill and periodically check the sand for trapped detritus (there never is any).


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

GTZ said:


> Another thing to consider Razor; I use the FX5 to drain my tank for water changes. It is fast. Also, I don't know if you plan on a spray bar, but, I haven't vacuumed my tank in 8+months. I just drain, fill and periodically check the sand for trapped detritus (there never is any).


I was going to try the output nozzles first as they are directional. The only concern I have with a spray bar is the intake would be either on one side of the tank or the other. I do have a aquatop canister on there as well. I was going to have the aquatop do the right 1/3rd of the tank as far as flow and the FX5 to handle the other 2/3 of the tank.

I was and now you do have me thinking about a 36" spray bar with the intake just to the left next to my heater. I would prefer not to have anything in the tank such as a power head or circulation pump. I am removing my maxi jet 1200 and my AC110 for this reason.

I believe you have a T fitting for your spray bar right in the middle? How are you keeping your spray bar level and attached to the back glass?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I used a couple of heater clips with suction that fit the pvc perfectly. Regarding the intake, mine comes down in front of the spray bar. Didn't have a choice seeing that it's nearly the length of the tank. You can sort of see it in the pic linked in my sig. Works fine, doesn't block a hole.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

GTZ said:


> I used a couple of heater clips with suction that fit the pvc perfectly. Regarding the intake, mine comes down in front of the spray bar. Didn't have a choice seeing that it's nearly the length of the tank. You can sort of see it in the pic linked in my sig. Works fine, doesn't block a hole.


How far is the intake sticking out in front of the back glass? Also...did you change the hose that came with the filter to a clear vinyl hose?

If there was a way to make a 36" spray bar with the intake about 1/3 the way down the spray bar...like yours but without it sticking so far away from the glass I would go that route probably.


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

13razorbackfan said:


> Deeda said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't experienced a major leak on a canister filter due to a seal failure or improper installation BUT I do keep a couple of my canister filters in small kitty litter type pans in the event they could possibly leak due to my negligence when reassembling them.
> ...


That's definitely a real pain. Fortunately we don't have wood flooring yet or else there's a chance I wouldn't be alive. :lol:


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

GTZ said:


> Another thing to consider Razor;* I use the FX5 to drain my tank for water changes*. It is fast. Also, I don't know if you plan on a spray bar, but, I haven't vacuumed my tank in 8+months. I just drain, fill and periodically check the sand for trapped detritus (there never is any).


How do you accomplish this?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

toyster17 said:


> GTZ said:
> 
> 
> > Another thing to consider Razor;* I use the FX5 to drain my tank for water changes*. It is fast. Also, I don't know if you plan on a spray bar, but, I haven't vacuumed my tank in 8+months. I just drain, fill and periodically check the sand for trapped detritus (there never is any).
> ...


It has a drain valve on it plus another aquastop valve that you can plug in place of the output valve and plug the filter back in and use the motor.

GTZ....what ID PVC are you using...how big are your holes and how far apart are they? Also...are you using vinyl hose in place of the hose that came with the filter?


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

13razorbackfan said:


> toyster17 said:
> 
> 
> > GTZ said:
> ...


Oh that's right, I do remember seeing that in the manual. I guess you'd need a pretty long hose to reach a drain or outside.

I hope you plan on making a thread with pictures of your spraybar build, would love to see how you do yours. I'm still a bit scared of putting my spraybar back up after my incident but I'm working up the courage :lol:


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

13razorbackfan said:


> Yeah...everything is shut off during water changes except my lights which I need them on so I can get all the waste. You think 1/8" would suffice on a filter that pumps as hard as the FX5? I am thinking around 600gph with media. Want to make sure it is big enough to actually break the siphon. I know it would work on my aquatop for sure.


Once the water level in the aquarium falls below the drilled hole in the intake pipe, no more water should leave the aquarium but the filter will still pump out all the water that is left in the intake hose AND the canister filter. That will probably be at least 5 gallons for the FX5 filter plus the 2" x length of your aquarium.

You could always try to simulate a failure/leaking filter situation to determine the proper drilled hole size. If the 1/8" hole isn't large enough, just increase the diameter until you are happy with the results. If you do this simulation, please unplug the filter mains before the pump has completely run out of water to avoid damaging the pump.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

toyster17 said:


> I hope you plan on making a thread with pictures of your spraybar build, would love to see how you do yours. I'm still a bit scared of putting my spraybar back up after my incident but I'm working up the courage :lol:


Ok...I have made spray bars in the past for my reef tank returns but I don't think I have for canister filters. That is why I was wondering what ID PVC he is using and hole size and distance apart.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Deeda said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah...everything is shut off during water changes except my lights which I need them on so I can get all the waste. You think 1/8" would suffice on a filter that pumps as hard as the FX5? I am thinking around 600gph with media. Want to make sure it is big enough to actually break the siphon. I know it would work on my aquatop for sure.
> ...


That is a good idea....probably what I will do.


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

13razorbackfan said:


> toyster17 said:
> 
> 
> > I hope you plan on making a thread with pictures of your spraybar build, would love to see how you do yours. I'm still a bit scared of putting my spraybar back up after my incident but I'm working up the courage :lol:
> ...


toyster17 wrote:
GTZ, what size are your holes and how far apart are they?

by GTZ » Fri May 04, 2012 5:12 pm


> I think they're 1/8, however every other hole was smaller than that, I don't remember what size. Also about an inch apart roughly, I just eyeballed it while drilling


That's what he wrote in the spraybar thread I had created. Most spraybars I read about were made with 3/4" pvc


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

toyster17 said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
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> 
> > toyster17 said:
> ...


Ok...thanks...


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Regarding using the FX5 for draining the tank, I use the 3rd valve and leftover hose along with an adapter that connects to a python hose, so it flows out of the FX5 back to the sink. I need to replace the stock tubing on this valve with 1" vinyl as it doesn't make a great connection to the adapter, due to it being ribbed.
The normal output valve runs to the spray bar with 1" clear vinyl from Lowes, teflon taped, pvc glued and clamped. There's also a flood alarm on the floor near the filter.


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## countryboy814 (Feb 19, 2012)

Put the canister in a pan.


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## Ensorcelled (Mar 1, 2011)

Although I can see the idea behind doing this, I really wouldn't in my opinion. I would just setup the canister, double check connections etc and if your worried from then on, I would do what has been suggested already and put a pan underneath just incase the worst happens


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