# Am I asking for Trouble?



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

So I have the early workings of a Mixed American Cichlid Tank. 

The tank is a 6ft x 18in x 22in? (125g), the current stock is Red Spotted Sev, Green Terror (Gold Saum), Electric Blue Jack Dempsey. 
The tank has a lot of structure in it, tons of driftwood spread out throughout the tank, rocks, as well as a ton of plants (i know in the future these plants maybe gone due to the larger cichlids digging them up.

*Current Stocking:*
1 - EBJD ~3in
1 - GT~3-4in
1 - Sev ~4in

Right now everything seems great (i know they're all Juvies at this point), so its why I don't see any major aggression.

I was wondering if attempting to put a juvie Tiger Oscar in this tank will be pushing it over the edge. Is it best to let these guys grow up more, and see how they respond to each other before attempting an Oscar. Or should I just walk away from this idea? I have read a ton and know that introducing all these as small as possible is the best bet for success in the long run.

_Just looking for more advice from people with experience doing this. _

*Background: *
Have been keeping fish (mostly community and dwarf cichlids) for 8-9 years now. 
Last year I started a 72g w/ Mbunua, and just recently moved them into another 125g. 
This is now my first foray into the larger South/Central American Cichilds.


----------



## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

In a word to your post title question: NO.
-
I believe you can add that Oscar to the tank, and it will do fine. Stockikng with the Oscar in there, WILL max out the tank though.
Possible other/alternate choices to the single Oscar you might want to consider are,








_Hypselecara temporalis, _(Chocolate or Emerald Cichlid)
With a Chocolate Cichlid you could also add another Severum in there for a pair of them.

or -
You could add a couple more Severum in the tank, if you like them. Two green ones (or maybe a couple Rotkeils) to go with your red one would look pretty nice. __


----------



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

Auballagh said:


> In a word to your post title question: NO.
> -
> I believe you can add that Oscar to the tank, and it will do fine. Stockikng with the Oscar in there, WILL max out the tank though.
> Possible other/alternate choices to the single Oscar you might want to consider are,
> ...


Let me look into this Chocolate Cichlid, it does look pretty cool! But man its hard to beat that Black/Orange on a Tiger Oscar.

As for more Severums... I did have a Gold Sev w/ the Spotted Sev (they were both about the same size), and it would continuously harass the spotted Sev. So I'm kind of hesitant to add anymore Severums. I ended up re-homing the Gold Sev, I tried multiple times to pull it and put it in another Aquarium for a couple of weeks, then re-introduce; but it was the same results after 24hrs.


----------



## Oscar6 (Aug 4, 2017)

I believe you may already have trouble brewing. The EBJD is a delicate, very slow growing cichlid. Prone to a plethora of stress related health issues. Adding an Oscar in there will spell the end of the blue. I've had blues that barely grow an inch in a year. Oscars can grow to a foot long by their first birthday. The big mouth Oscar even at 7 or 8 ins will try to eat a 3 in fish. Oscar with the Sev and Saum would be far more reasonable


----------



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

Oscar6 said:


> I believe you may already have trouble brewing. The EBJD is a delicate, very slow growing cichlid. Prone to a plethora of stress related health issues. Adding an Oscar in there will spell the end of the blue. I've had blues that barely grow an inch in a year. Oscars can grow to a foot long by their first birthday. The big mouth Oscar even at 7 or 8 ins will try to eat a 3 in fish. Oscar with the Sev and Saum would be far more reasonable


Not to discredit or say anything against what you have to say. This EBJD I got in Sept at about 1in, he is a ferocious eater, has grown at least 1.5 - 2in since that time frame. Also is very active and does push back against the GT/Sev when needed. Not saying it will always be that way, but its what I'm witnessing right now. As for the EBJD stress and Oscar size, I can always pull it if I think its not going to work and move to my 75g as a permeant home for the EBJD. 🤷‍♂️

Thanks for the advice though!


----------



## Oscar6 (Aug 4, 2017)

No offense taken at all. Been in this hobby long enough to see lotsa weird s***. Knew of a guy that kept a Sev with a giant male Dovii. No problems. The growth rate you state for your blue jack is other worldly in that strain of cichlid. Good for him!(her)? Regular JD rarely grows that fast in my experience. If your Jack is pure blue gene, it's a very rare example. Enjoy and good luck moving forward!


----------



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

Oscar6 said:


> No offense taken at all. Been in this hobby long enough to see lotsa weird s***. Knew of a guy that kept a Sev with a giant male Dovii. No problems. The growth rate you state for your blue jack is other worldly in that strain of cichlid. Good for him!(her)? Regular JD rarely grows that fast in my experience. If your Jack is pure blue gene, it's a very rare example. Enjoy and good luck moving forward!


Thanks, now I haven't taken him out w/ a measuring tape to know exact size etc... But he/she for sure has put on 1-1.5. I have no idea if its pure or not, I'm going to say no. I ended up getting him from online retailer as "Electric Blue AKA Powder Blue". But super active and healthy, eats like a pig, tank also gets 75% WC every week, RO/DI Water 4KH 5GH (Plants), PH 7.6 -> 6.3 -> 7.6 (Co2 Inject), and fed a mix of food all week long. _Shrug_ He is a couple of pics of him/her!


----------



## Oscar6 (Aug 4, 2017)

Great specimen! You often see deformities in these fish. Crooked jaw, wonky eyes etc. You have a beauty there. Hope it stays healthy, they are among the most striking cichlids in the hobby. I'm jealous!!


----------



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

Oscar6 said:


> Great specimen! You often see deformities in these fish. Crooked jaw, wonky eyes etc. You have a beauty there. Hope it stays healthy, they are among the most striking cichlids in the hobby. I'm jealous!!


Thanks for the kind words!


----------



## ken31cay (Oct 9, 2018)

I would clear the current occupants of my 180gal for that fish. Really nice.


----------



## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Whoa... I've never seen an Electric Blue Jack Dempsey (EBJD) that looked that nice! As @Oscar6 mentioned earlier, their usual look are these kind of weak, sort of weird looking Cichlids. Fragile.
NOT that one!
And yes, he's right about the Oscar being kind of a 'Budfy' in a community tank. The usual sort of smaller/weaker EBJD would almost certainly get pushed around by a more boisterous Oscar. And the predatory thing is never far off in one of those. That mouth on an Oscar does open up pretty big when it's chow time!
-
So, I see how you're kind of set on getting that Oscar. But, it might just be worth a closer look at the Chocolate. NOT a small growing Cichlid species, these will get up to around a foot in pretty heavy bodied length. Tend to be pretty calm as well. And like your Severum, will hit those veggies very hard as part of their diet. If you didn't want to add another Severum a couple of Chocolate Cichlids could probably squeeze into your tank instead of the single Oscar.
But hey, an Oscar is kind of hard to pass up! They are a very cool Cichlid.


----------



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

ken31cay said:


> I would clear the current occupants of my 180gal for that fish. Really nice.


 Thats a big leap! Thanks!




Auballagh said:


> Whoa... I've never seen an Electric Blue Jack Dempsey (EBJD) that looked that nice! As @Oscar6 mentioned earlier, their usual look are these kind of weak, sort of weird looking Cichlids. Fragile.
> NOT that one!
> And yes, he's right about the Oscar being kind of a 'Budfy' in a community tank. The usual sort of smaller/weaker EBJD would almost certainly get pushed around by a more boisterous Oscar. And the predatory thing is never far off in one of those. That mouth on an Oscar does open up pretty big when it's chow time!
> -
> ...


I'm still not sold on a Tiger Oscar, I have been looking at Chocolate Cichlids this afternoon, as well as reading the care guides. The pictures on the web are so extreme! Some are so pretty, and others look like just another brownish fish.

I do like the idea of a Red Shoulder Sev if I got the Chocolate/Emerald Cichlid. Do you think my issues with the previous pairing of the Gold and Spotted Sev was due to how close they look based on color? Because maybe I could do the Green or Red Shoulder, since the coloration compared to the spotted is SO different?


----------



## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Oh, well then... the Cichlid addition stocking game is afoot!
IRT the Gold, Red or Spotted Severums... I've been seeing a trend of somewhat unpredictable behavior and sometimes heightened aggression in those types. They tend to bully out and dominate the Green ones. Heck man, there was even a bullied Green Terror lately reported by one of those! (So bad the GT had to be pulled out of the tank before it was killed).
So, it's possible the Gold or Red type is just a bit more pugnacious than the 'regular' Green or Red Shouldered/'Rotkeil' types. If you have removed one of them already, and noted a big reduction in aggression, maybe it was just the stronger, more dominant Severum you pulled out, (not a color similarity thing or something).
-
So.... IF you possibly decide to go with a 're-boot' of the Severum or something? I totally recommend going ALL Red Shoulder/Rotkeil types and getting at least three maybe four of them. Those look really nice in a group like that, and they tend to work out things amongst themselves without looking for trouble elsewhere in the aquarium.


----------



## BigBeardDaHuzi (Jul 23, 2020)

Your EBJD is so beautiful. I would be tempted to stock the tank around it. It certainly makes me want one😍


----------



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

Auballagh said:


> Oh, well then... the Cichlid addition stocking game is afoot!
> IRT the Gold, Red or Spotted Severums... I've been seeing a trend of somewhat unpredictable behavior and sometimes heightened aggression in those types. They tend to bully out and dominate the Green ones. Heck man, there was even a bullied Green Terror lately reported by one of those! (So bad the GT had to be pulled out of the tank before it was killed).
> So, it's possible the Gold or Red type is just a bit more pugnacious than the 'regular' Green or Red Shouldered/'Rotkeil' types. If you have removed one of them already, and noted a big reduction in aggression, maybe it was just the stronger, more dominant Severum you pulled out, (not a color similarity thing or something).
> -
> So.... IF you possibly decide to go with a 're-boot' of the Severum or something? I totally recommend going ALL Red Shoulder/Rotkeil types and getting at least three maybe four of them. Those look really nice in a group like that, and they tend to work out things amongst themselves without looking for trouble elsewhere in the aquarium.


The Gold Sev was def the aggressor, its why it was rehomed into the 72g, I have always wanted the spotted so it got to stay in the 125g. 

No, I wouldn't reboot the Sev community, I would want to keep the Gold Spotted. He/She seems to be very docile (as of now), I would look to add the Red Shoulder to the 125 w/ the spotted "IF" I went the Chocolate/Emerald Route... 

Or maybe I just do a few more Red Shoulders "~2+" with the spotted, and skip the Chocolate and Oscar? That would give me 3 total Sevs (1 Spotted, and 2 Red Shoulders)


----------



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

BigBeardDaHuzi said:


> Your EBJD is so beautiful. I would be tempted to stock the tank around it. It certainly makes me want one😍


Thank you! He was the first one to go in the 125g! Then I stocked based on him.


----------



## ken31cay (Oct 9, 2018)

BigBeardDaHuzi said:


> Your EBJD is so beautiful. I would be tempted to stock the tank around it. It certainly makes me want one😍


I've only see the weak/fragile looking ones at my lfs from time to time. There's only one lfs/pet store in my country unfortunately.


----------



## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Well now....


zer0signal said:


> Or maybe I just do a few more Red Shoulders "~2+" with the spotted, and skip the Chocolate and Oscar? That would give me 3 total Sevs (1 Spotted, and 2 Red Shoulders)


Yes - you're looking good! And, if you don't stock with either the larger growing Chocolate or Oscar, I would actually put THREE of the smaller growing Red Shouldered/'Rotkeil' Severum in there to plus up that tank. With those numbers, you will be maxed out.


----------



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

Auballagh said:


> Well now....
> 
> Yes - you're looking good! And, if you don't stock with either the larger growing Chocolate or Oscar, I would actually put THREE of the smaller growing Red Shouldered/'Rotkeil' Severum in there to plus up that tank. With those numbers, you will be maxed out.


I thought long and hard during our 6hr drive this weekend, and I have 100% ruled out the Oscar. It is just not worth the risk with my current inhabitant's.
Now its down to 3 Sev (Red Shoulder), or 1 Red Shoulder and a Chocolate.

Stocking would look like:
1 - EBJD
1 - Green Terror
1 - Sev "Spotted"
3 - Sev "Red Shoulder"

OR

1 - EBJD
1 - Green Terror
1 - Sev "Spotted"
1 - Sev "Red Shoulder"
1 - Chocolate

I think by going w/ more Sev's it might fill out the Middle/Upper levels more...?


----------



## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

I haven’t kept either and both the red shoulder and chocolates are in my “would like to keep someday” list, but man some of those pictures of the chocolates you find online look SHARP!


----------



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

DutchAJ said:


> I haven’t kept either and both the red shoulder and chocolates are in my “would like to keep someday” list, but man some of those pictures of the chocolates you find online look SHARP!


I agree, some look really sharp.. Especially when the orange, brown, green are showing. But some of them just look so drab, and I'm not sure why.. Is it bad photography, taking photos right after lights on, bad care? I just dont know...


----------



## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

These are both compatible, and realistic long-term stocking schemes.
A well-kept Emerald or Chocolate Cichlid can be a visually really nice centerpiece fish, for an aquarium. And, in a community setting, these will NOT become 'Tank Budfy's' or something, ruling over all their less-dominant minions below them in a reign of terror. Nope. They just aren't all that aggressive or dominant. To bring out all of that color, good quality water is certainly important. But, I also suspect diet plays a key part in how they look (Like Severums and Uaru, Chocolates will look their best when fed a more veggie-based diet). Plus, aggressive and mean tank mates can subdue a more peaceful Chocolate, as well - drabbing that potentially vibrant coloration on down into brown pretty quick (For example, I wouldn't dream of keeping one of those with a Red Terror, or any of the larger CA Cichlids).
-
So, it sort of comes down to a couple of choices I guess.
- SIZE. Because a well-kept Chocolate can easily get up to a foot in pretty heavy-bodied length. A centerpiece fish!
or 
- INTERACTION and MOVEMENT. The Red-Shouldered Severum is one species that looks REALLY good when kept together in groups. A group will just have all of them looking more vibrant, colorful and active, then just keeping a lone individual.


----------



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

Auballagh said:


> These are both compatible, and realistic long-term stocking schemes.
> A well-kept Emerald or Chocolate Cichlid can be a visually really nice centerpiece fish, for an aquarium. And, in a community setting, these will NOT become 'Tank Budfy's' or something, ruling over all their less-dominant minions below them in a reign of terror. Nope. They just aren't all that aggressive or dominant. To bring out all of that color, good quality water is certainly important. But, I also suspect diet plays a key part in how they look (Like Severums and Uaru, Chocolates will look their best when fed a more veggie-based diet). Plus, aggressive and mean tank mates can subdue a more peaceful Chocolate, as well - drabbing that potentially vibrant coloration on down into brown pretty quick (For example, I wouldn't dream of keeping one of those with a Red Terror, or any of the larger CA Cichlids).
> -
> So, it sort of comes down to a couple of choices I guess.
> ...


Done, I just ordered 3 Red Shoulder's. 

I like the idea of more activity and movement vs, 1 large fish.


----------



## zer0signal (Jan 5, 2021)

All 3 Red Shoulders have arrived, and are in QT! Looking so pretty, minus the nipped fins; not sure if that's from the breeder, or all 3 in a bag together for a little less than 24hrs.

Anyways, a couple of weeks of some fresh water, high quality food, and a few days of paraguard should get them back on track!


Thanks again!


----------



## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

That's awesome!
Yer' gonna like those things - A LOT - when they start maturing. They are an absolutely beautiful looking Cichlid.


----------

