# What goes with what?



## ron l (Jul 14, 2008)

Hello, I have a 150 gallon tank. I went to my local pet store and told the clerk i wanted to start an all cichlid community. He bagged up some fish and sent me on my way, Did i mention he was not much help? Anyway now i have two bala sharks, Yellow lab, Upside down cat & a really cool firemouth. I really like my aquarium it relaxes me after a stressful day. I have had my tank set up before, But only had small fish like guppies and mollys in it. I was really wanting it to be special this time but i feel i have been mislead. If anyone can help me out and let me know what type of fish i need to get to make this the best tank that would be great.

Thank you,
Ron


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## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

the best thing to do is find a place that has a good variety and make a list of what looks good to you, then people can help you put things together that will work. just take a look at a pet store near you or look at some of the online stores.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

My god!
So he sold you 2 silver sharks, 1 SA and 1 african  
That not a good mix. I would take them back and say you misled me and sold a recipe for disarster.
The firemouth will probable kill and then eat the other fish.
Stick to either all african or all SA (south American). And even then you will have to get compitable species


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## ron l (Jul 14, 2008)

Thank you for your reply. I have had my fish for one week and have already become attached to them. I dont want them to get killed by each other, Is there something else i can do.

PLEASE! need more opinions

Thank you,
Ron


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## kingpoiuy (Jun 9, 2008)

Only thing you can do is get rid of them or get another tank. I think Gibbs is right. I don't know much about bala sharks except for they get really large. I suggest looking all of thoes fish up and checking for compatibleness.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

If you are careful and you have enough space its possible to mix CA and rift lake cichlids. Your fire mouth and lab will be able to get along long term, especially in a 150. You may have trouble with your upside down cat as it needs softer water and the bala "sharks" will get very large, you may want to take these fast swimming giants back and exchange them for something else.


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## ron l (Jul 14, 2008)

Just got off the phone with the pet store. The guy told me that they dont take returns on fish so im stuck. I guess i will just have to set up another tank for my balas. The clerk told me that if i start with least aggresive fish first they will learn to adapt. Is this true or is this more smoke!!!

Thanks,

Ron


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

If you have a 6' tank than you'll be able to keep your bala sharks long term. What are the dimensions of this aquarium?


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## ron l (Jul 14, 2008)

Its 6' L x 18" T x 18" W


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## Alleycat (Dec 2, 2006)

FYI, your tank is only 100 gallons...


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## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

the bala sharks will get about 13" and do better in group since they scare easy. the firemouth needs softer water with a low ph, while the lab and upside down catfish like hard water with a ph of 7.5 or higher. there is a chance if the petstore doesnt do anything to their water and have all fish in the same conditions, then the ph may not bother any of them. i know the place i go to conditions their water according to what fish are in the tanks. another problem i see is if you get more african cichlids, their hyperactivity may spook the bala sharks causing them to crash into the sides of the tank or decorations. it could possibly work out in the end, youll just have to plan future fish purchases around what you already have, such as more laid back cichilds and stuff that gets big enough not to get ate.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

james1983 said:


> the firemouth needs softer water with a low ph, while the lab and upside down catfish like hard water with a ph of 7.5 or higher.


This is incorrect. Fire mouths (Thorichthys meeki) are central American cichlids and will do fine in a higher pH, ~8.0 at the upper limit. Upside down catfish (Synodontis nigriventris) are African riverine fish and will appreciate a lower pH with softer water. They are also best kept in a small group. Labs (Labidochromis caeruleus) are from lake Malawi and are pretty mellow.

Profile for the fire mouth is here; http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=65
Profile for the upside down cat is here; http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=334
Info on the lab is here; http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1669

There doesn't seem to be any confusion regarding the bala sharks, they get large are great jumpers and can be easily spooked.


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## Jorsay (Jul 14, 2008)

My two cents:

I once had a 135 gallon tank with a fire mouth, severums, gouramies, frontosa, ladidochromis, a tropheus, and all kinds of other cichlids and noncichlids. Not one fish was killed by any other and they all lived fine on frozen brineshrimp. It was one of the most interesting tanks that I ever had. I will bet money that if you have some rocks and plants in there, they will be fine. How many pet stores have you been to and seen them mixed? I have seen it many times. I have read the same stories about mixing fish, but found them to be a bit exaggerated.

I have also found that fighting problems with cichlids are most easily solved by putting more fish in, not fewer. when you put too few, they tend to establish territories and defend them. If there are many, they tend to capitulate and just swim around. However, mixing and crowding does take some of the fun out of cichlids since they don't exhibit their natural behavior as well.

Anyway, everyone will say I'm crazy, but I think you are fine.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Jorsay said:


> My two cents:
> 
> I once had a 135 gallon tank with a fire mouth, severums, gouramies, frontosa, ladidochromis, a tropheus, and all kinds of other cichlids and noncichlids. Not one fish was killed by any other and they all lived fine on frozen brineshrimp. It was one of the most interesting tanks that I ever had. I will bet money that if you have some rocks and plants in there, they will be fine. How many pet stores have you been to and seen them mixed? I have seen it many times. I have read the same stories about mixing fish, but found them to be a bit exaggerated.
> 
> ...


What do you consider "lived fine"? I'm also willing to bet that your frontosa was not full size and if your Tropheus did not perish on a diet of brine shrimp you're incredibly lucky. Of course feeding brine shrimp as a staple isn't good for most fish in general due to their low nutritional value.


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## ron l (Jul 14, 2008)

I am guessing at my tank dimentions, However I know its 150 Gallons becaused i purchased it new. I have talked to the pet store and they said to crowd the fish but not to much. I have a really nice setting with a peagravel base that has hills with allkinds of rocks. I have a lava rock that is biggeer around then a basketball. I also have good filtration with an xp-3 filter, Two 150 hummingbird pums, Two air pumps and a undergravel filter.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Browse through the profile sections here and see what you're interested in...

You want to choose species that have the same dietary and water requirements.

Your tank is large enough that you should be able to set it up really nice, but with cichlids, it's very important to pick the right species to house together. (I wouldn't keep a firemouth and Yellow lab together, but I've sure heard worse LFS advise and seen people wind up with some really bad mixes.)

What's more important to you? Do you want alot of colour? Breeding?


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

ron l said:


> I am guessing at my tank dimentions, However I know its 150 Gallons becaused i purchased it new. I have talked to the pet store and they said to crowd the fish but not to much. I have a really nice setting with a peagravel base that has hills with allkinds of rocks. I have a lava rock that is biggeer around then a basketball. I also have good filtration with an xp-3 filter, Two 150 hummingbird pums, Two air pumps and a undergravel filter.


Why not just measure your aquarium to ensure that you actually do have a 150? If you bought it from the same pet store there is a chance that they lied to you about the volume considering the advice they gave you about the stocking. There is a significant difference in size between a 150 and a 100 gallon aquarium and if you want the best possible advice for your situation its good to be as accurate as possible. I think that in the long term you'll be able to maintain all these fish together without difficulty, but the accurate dimensions of your aquarium will be useful for further stocking advice.


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## Jorsay (Jul 14, 2008)

Darkside said:


> What do you consider "lived fine"? I'm also willing to bet that your frontosa was not full size and if your Tropheus did not perish on a diet of brine shrimp you're incredibly lucky. Of course feeding brine shrimp as a staple isn't good for most fish in general due to their low nutritional value.


My frontosa was not full size. Most of us amateurs purchase baby frontosa from a pet shop (1 to 2 inches). I think it takes a couple of years for a front to reach even 8 inches. Many people make dramatic changes to their aquariums by then. Even getting rid of them. I think it is silly for people not to buy frontosa and enjoy them because their tank is not 6 feet long. A 150 gallon tank is clearly big enough for what this person has. He could put many more fish in there with no problem.

Contrary to popular believe, in the wild, tropheus do NOT live on plant matter alone. In fact, plant matter alone is not the best diet for tropheus. As I have said, I currently have five healthy tropheus (3-4 inches) that have lived mainly on brine shrimp and some spirulina for more than the past 6 months. I have raised and even bred tropheus on brine shrimp. (They also eat the algae in the tank.) By the way, the entire point about tropheus eating plant matter is because so much of it is roughage with low nutritional value.

I am not an expert, but I have read many books, some of which give some of the same advice that I read on these websites, and my experience of doing differently for 47 years tells me that much of this stuff is simply old wive's tales. You can set up a tank and mix all kinds of africans, south americans, and even some community fish without disasterous results. Just put lots of places for the fish to hide.

It sounds like this person will not change the fish he has, and I bet, assuming clean water, a reasonable number of hiding places, and assuming he doesn't keep adding or removing fish (which is the biggest stress on any agaurium, his fish will be just fine.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Jorsay said:


> Darkside said:
> 
> 
> > What do you consider "lived fine"? I'm also willing to bet that your frontosa was not full size and if your Tropheus did not perish on a diet of brine shrimp you're incredibly lucky. Of course feeding brine shrimp as a staple isn't good for most fish in general due to their low nutritional value.
> ...


Not to hijack this thread but... How did you manage to maintain aquariums for 47 years and have no experience with wild caught fish?


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

Let's get back to the topic of helping the OP. Opinions may differ, but let's not derail this thread over them.


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## Jorsay (Jul 14, 2008)

Not to hijack this thread but... How did you manage to maintain aquariums for 47 years and have no experience with wild caught fish?[/quote]

Never asked for wild caught fish. Perhaps I had some and didn't know it. I have always purchased from the local fish store or from another hobbiest. Not to repeat myself, but I do not consider myself an expert, more of a dabbler who has never followed the rules.

From the amateur's point of view, it seems like you guys are thinking years ahead when these fish are full grown, whereas it sound to me like this person has less experience and, like many of us did when we started, chances are he will experiment before he settles on just a couple types of fish. The fish that he already has will do fine.

If it were me, I would probably add a female firemouth (assuming he has a male) and let them mate. That tank is plenty big enough. They won't kill the other fish in a tank that size. The other fish will probably end up eating the fry, but it will be fun watching the firemouth mate and protect their fry. My question to everyone telling this person that he has to get rid of these fish is "How do you know the tank is too small if you have never tried?" I have tried many mixes and I know that it is not. For many years, a 55 was the largest tank that I could afford. I think, what if I had never had Frontosa for all those years? What If I had taken such advice and kept only one female frontosa in my 55? I would not have seen the cichlid behaviors that make raising fish so fun. The chances that this person or any non-pro such as myself keeps a frontosa or bala shark until it is 15 inches is extremely small and sounds quite boring.

Just my two cents.

By the way, I've said my piece and, in the interest of getting other opinions, will remove myself from the conversation now. Don't mean to be disruptive.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

I think Cichlidaholic has given you the best advice. 
To get the most enjoyment out of this hobby you must take a breathe, read some articles, do some reseach, look at some picks of fish and get your head around the regions and locations that these fish come from. 
It is possible to have a stock list of cichlids from all around the world if that is what you desire. Personally i like to see setups were the fish are housed with there natural companions, or atleast fish from the same region, lake, river etc.
So it's up to you. You might like the American or the African, or both. Just ask us if you have any questions about compatibility and take your time stocking your tank.

Big tank :lol:


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Jorsay said:


> My question to everyone telling this person that he has to get rid of these fish is "How do you know the tank is too small if you have never tried?" I have tried many mixes and I know that it is not. For many years, a 55 was the largest tank that I could afford. I think, what if I had never had Frontosa for all those years? What If I had taken such advice and kept only one female frontosa in my 55? I would not have seen the cichlid behaviors that make raising fish so fun. The chances that this person or any non-pro such as myself keeps a frontosa or bala shark until it is 15 inches is extremely small and sounds quite boring.


This is forum supports a wide range of people who have varying levels of experience in the hobby. What I do know (from personal experience) is that you are not the only one who has kept frontosa in a 55 gallon. Cramming frontosa into a 55 gallon raises questions of animal welfare, as does the concept of changing out fish before they are full grown. This is a really unfortunate aspect of the hobby, buying a selection of cute juvies and then trying to rehome them after they've gotten too large or are otherwise unmanageable. Luckily cichlids aren't as bad as pacus or otherwise. Knowing a frontosa grows to 14" and putting them in a small aquarium for more than the short term is in my opinion an irresponsible choice as it does not fully consider the health and well being of the animal. A small space is restrictive to the growth of large fish and although they will eventually out-grow their aquarium may experience permanent damage from the process.

The point of websites like this is for people to do research so they can make the right choices regarding their fish, both for their enjoyment and the health of their fish as well. Its great that the OP has enough space for the fish he's picked up and that he'll give a non conventional approach a try. As I've already stated the fish he has now should get along.

"The chances that this person or any non-pro such as myself keeps a frontosa or bala shark until it is 15 inches is extremely small and sounds quite boring"

This is why the "hijack" has merit. Why shouldn't someone keep their fish until they are full grown? What happens to them during their tenure that results in them not reaching full growth? Hopefully people choose fish that they like and keep them for years and then maybe trade them to other hobbyists for a new experience, but at least find a way to responsibly maintain them long term. I'm not a pro either, I don't make money from this (like most others here I find this hobby to be a money sink) but I do endeavor to provide the best care for my fish and I try to offer the best advice I can to others regarding their welfare. Its always best to error on the side of caution and if one is going to take a non conventional approach its best to have a contingency plan in case it goes all wrong.

If I'm not mistaken, someone on this forum has a Synodontis multipunctatus that's about 28 years old, now that is dedication to both the hobby and to the fish. :thumb:


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## Afishionado (Jun 6, 2006)

My 1.5 cents on the balas: I have tried on a few occasions to keep 2-4 of them. Each time all but one wasted away, the remaining one growing on to live a healthy life. This suggests to me they really do best in larger groups than I attempted, although a loner will hang around ok. I've kept them with Geophagus braziliensis (which are NOT typical of geophagus, they are more like Firemouths in temperament) and as long as the bala has the room he has no trouble evading the rare vain lunge by a cichlid (balas are VERY fast, even compared to mbuna). Even saw a 7" bala get fed up on occasion, turn and charge a 7" brasiliensis (who was so surprised he backed down).

Where it gets tricky is if you want to add more species. A mish-mash like this may work in a large tank if it is sparsely populated, but I'm guessing you'll eventually want more fish in a 150g and this mix will make any further choices problematic imo.


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## ron l (Jul 14, 2008)

I had no idea what i was doing just a few days ago until i found yall. I still dont really know what im doing but all of you are teaching me. This place is great, People taking time to help someone they dont even know. I want to thank each and every one of you that has helped me. Now back to fish talk. My firemouth must be a chicken cause all he does is hide behind the rocks till it's time to eat. I feed my fish twice a day and give them a Bloodworm cube every other day. The two bala sharks are only about two inches long and they kinda hang together. I do want more fish so here comes more help. I need ideas on my next fish purchase. Since everyone knows what i have tell me what i need. If i can remember i will meausure my tank also i will take a picture of it.


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