# 29 Gal community - couple of questions



## jayzerus (Jun 23, 2011)

Hi everybody - I'm new here, and somewhat new to the fish hobby. I've been working with fish over the past two plus years, first starting out with a 5 gallon platy tank, and have now moved up to a 29 gallon tetra tank. I would like to get into Cichlids, as I like the variety and colors they offer. However I haven't quite gotten there yet in my "fish hobby maturity". For now I'm sticking with a community tank to make sure I can handle the commitment that would be required of me.

So in this 29g tank I have 4 black skirt tetras, 3 bloodfin tetras, 2 white cloud minnows, 2 otocinclus, 1 yellow glofish and 1 mystery snail.

Unfortunately, my LFS is Petsmart. As many of you probably already know, they are not very fish literate, to the point where they told me to only get 3 of each kind of tetra. I have since learned differently, and the 2 white clouds in my stock list? yea, they were supposed to be bloodfin tetras...

So the question of the hour (actually 2 questions):

1) I want to have a "centerpiece fish" with these guys, but am unsure of what to get. I've always liked bettas and angels, but I'd be concerned with the black skirts. Anyone have any ideas or similar setups?

2) One of my plans is to get the black skirts and bloodfins up to at least 5 each, possibly 6. But what do I do with the others? I don't even know what to do with the white clouds, and the yellow glofish is a holdover (and only survivor) of a community wiping disease (actually one of the oto's is survivors too).

Looking for a little bit of advice.

Thanks


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

You probably won't find them at petsmart, but a couple of Bolivian Rams would fit in pretty well to a tank like that.

Once you start ordering your fish you won't go back to petsmart. Thanks to the internet you have access to anything you could want, the fish are almost always healthier (dealing with breeders directly also means less stress since they never have to deal with a minimum wage employee's half-assing), and if you lump orders together it's usually cheaper than what you spend for anything but the most common fish.


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## Pizzle (May 24, 2011)

I was also thinking Bolivians and then I saw that Mccluggin already suggested it. I have two bolivians with a Silver tip tetra. The larger Ram only chases the smaller Ram and leaves the tetra alone, but it is a sorta big and fast tetra. You could probably do German Blue Rams too but I don't have as much experience with them.

Edit: I don't mean German blues in addition to the Bolivians but instead of the Bolivians.


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

German Blues would work well too, but I think that Bolivians are a little more forgiving for beginners. I had a 29g planted with blue rams, but every six months or so I would lose one without warning. I got a trio of bolivians and they lived happily until I eventually gave the tank away (as far as I know my buddy still has offspring of those three originals.

Bolivians are more tolerant and just as nice in my opinion.


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## jayzerus (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks for the recommendation. I think they would be a good addition to my tank, plus they will be my "gateway cichlid" 

As an aside - I did just find a LFS, so my Petsmart days are over.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Just to say if the Ram's don't work try some Kribsens.


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## Pizzle (May 24, 2011)

I agree that Bolivians are just as nice and I have read over and over again that they are more hardy than German Blues. But the German Blues might be easier to find at Petsmart which is why I mentioned them.


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## jayzerus (Jun 23, 2011)

How will the Rams (either variety) do with my mystery snail? Will they bother it?


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

In general, no. Cichlids usually have two ways of dealing with snails, eating them, or ignoring them. Rams will ignore them unless they happen to be breeding, then they will drive it off if it gets too close.

Snails are slow moving and tend to be ignored except by the species that specifically eat them. Some will pick at exposed eye stalks, I have had mbuna bite the eye stalks off of mystery snails in the past, but the snails seemed to be minimally bothered by this and they grew back.

Rams are pretty peaceful in general, but will sometimes bicker among themselves or chase a tetra out of their territory, but sometimes won't even bother with that.


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## Rammer (Jun 6, 2011)

Bolivian Rams or German Blue Rams are good, but to get the offspring(if you go that route) the Bolivians will be better. I had 4 pairs fo the German Blues and they always waited until the eggs hatched to eat them. Kribensis would work well too, the females are very colorful especially in breeding dress. If you get them, either get all males or one of each sex. But while breeding the parents will chase everything away from their young. As long as your tetras are faster than the kribs you should be fine and they will live. My cherry barbs aren't quite fast enough, nor smart enough to give the female her space.


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## jayzerus (Jun 23, 2011)

While visiting the local fish store this morning, I noticed that they had a matched pair of German Blue Rams. I talked with the fish guy for a good half hour, came back to my place and got a water sample (can't be too careful). Everything tested out good - ammonia, nitrites and nitrates at 0. Said all other parameters were good (didn't say what the values were).

So given this, we concluded that the water quality was good for the GBRs. So I purchased the pair, plus a dwarf pleco (bristlenose). Now that I'm home though, and reading a little, I have concerns about my pH. I'm consistently running 7.3-7.4. I've read that GBRs can only tolerate up to 6.8. Is this accurate? Or is this only for breeding?

Am I causing these little guys (already named Herr Mic and Frau Ram) to suffer? Will they survive well in this tank?


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## allierw (Apr 20, 2006)

I have german blue rams (a trio) and I have very hard water. They do not seem affected by it at all and have very nice color. They are still young so they haven't tried spawning yet. IME the fish acclimate to your water, and in most instances, should be fine.


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

jayzerus said:


> While visiting the local fish store this morning, I noticed that they had a matched pair of German Blue Rams. I talked with the fish guy for a good half hour, came back to my place and got a water sample (can't be too careful). Everything tested out good - ammonia, nitrites and nitrates at 0. Said all other parameters were good (didn't say what the values were).
> 
> So given this, we concluded that the water quality was good for the GBRs. So I purchased the pair, plus a dwarf pleco (bristlenose). Now that I'm home though, and reading a little, I have concerns about my pH. I'm consistently running 7.3-7.4. I've read that GBRs can only tolerate up to 6.8. Is this accurate? Or is this only for breeding?
> 
> Am I causing these little guys (already named Herr Mic and Frau Ram) to suffer? Will they survive well in this tank?


While not technically ideal, they will likely be fine. Rams can be fragile, but your PH is pretty mid range and as long as you maintain good water conditions, feed them a quality diet, and keep things stable they should do fine.

In my opinion long term stability generally trumps constantly messing with your water chemistry to try and keep things between some specific numbers. GBRs are not what I would classify as a "hardy" fish, but neither are they as fragile as discus.

Good luck and enjoy your little pair!


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## jayzerus (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks guys.

So far they seem unaffected, but they've been hiding pretty much since I got them home - I figure it's just because they are in a new environment. Hopefully they start coming out soon so that they will eat - I have a stock of flakes, bloodworms and brine shrimp (both freeze dried).


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## jayzerus (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm afraid my tank setup may not be ideal for my new additions. See my tank setup picture below. They basically hide behind the big rock in the back left corner and the clump of rocks on the right and rarely come out. Is this just because they are still new to the environment? Should I redo the setup? Should I be more patient since it's only been a day and a half?

I know most people have setups so that there are some caves and such, but the LFS told me for GBRs that wasn't really necessary.

Any suggestions?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

It may be because there are not that many fish and they are scared. Try some sort of tetra and see what happens.


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## jayzerus (Jun 23, 2011)

At the moment I have 5 Bloodfin Tetras and 5 Black Skirt Tetras. I was thinking about bumping to 6 each, but I'm going to wait until I can get a second small filter to make sure the tank can handle the bio load - especially with the constantly defecating Pleco...


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

Your tank setup is fine, the more cover the better. Removing the places to hide will make them feel less safe and keep them stressed.

Small cichlids are usually skittish for a while after being added to a new aquarium. Give them some time and they will associate movement outside the aquarium with food and will be out and about. It's all about acclimation. They'll be a little shy at first, but will be out and about in no time.


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