# egg tumbler issues



## cdavitt (Apr 4, 2011)

So I snagged a pre-made egg tumbler from someone on aquabid. The issue I am having is that even with my strongest air pump on full blast the eggs donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t 'tumble" or move. They kind of shake with the water passing, but the eggs never move off the bottom screen unless a wiggler puts some effort into it.

Should I be concerned? If so, what can I do to increase the water flow to make the eggs move more? I've tumbled in it before and always seem to lose at least 1/2 to fungus. I just wanted to get input to see if it was the tumbler causing the loss due to not enough water? Or just typical/bad luck?

Any advice or tips/tricks on how to increase water flow through the tumbler, or plan B options?

I guess I should add they are mbuna eggs if that matters.

Thanks


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Pic? 
I found 2 ways to adjust how much eggs tumble. How far the air line is inserted into the tumbler and how deep the tumbler is inserted into the tank. More so for the latter I think, it's been a while.
Normally, I'd have the top of the tumbler maybe a quarter to half an inch above the water line.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Two things I think of might help. As mentioned the depth of the water above where the air comes out will change the amount of air. Less water pressure pressing down gives more air flow. Second is the way the air is coming out. Is it just the end of the airline or through an airstone. Airstones lift more air as they make smaller bubbles. Lots of small bubbles lift more than a single large bubble.

My first thought might be why you are bothering with tumbling mbuna eggs???

I find it much better to just let nature do her thing. The females are much better than anything I can build or buy. I just move the female to a small tank and let her rest until she feels it is time. When I see fry or she is not holding I move her back to the main tank. Really easy on me and the fish.


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## cdavitt (Apr 4, 2011)

Sorry for no pic. I am at work so I can't snap a picture until tonight. I browsed the web and the tumbler looks like this: The only difference is that the uplift tube I use is maybe 3 inches.


















The airline is attached to a location right at the top of the tumbler and at the bottom of the uplift tube. It is in a small 10 gallon right now so the bottom of the tumbler is less than 2" off the bottom and the top of the uplift tube is at most and inch below the water line. The airline is just open ended about 4-5 inched below the water line.

An air stone is a good idea I can try for cheap. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think the tumbler is designed to use one but I might be able to figure a way to cram one in there.

Would a longer or shorter uplift tube make a difference?

I havenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t tried raising the top of the uplift tube out of the water. My thought was that this would cause less water flow because the bubbles would have less space to travel in to create the flow?

I will certainly try adjusting the location of the tumbler and the location where the air tube/airstone is at inside the tumbler.

I've let nature do its thing and then I end up racing the dom male with my net to catch the little guys before they get scarfed. 50% survival rate tumbling is better than 5% letting nature take its course. I'm sure at some point I will be overrun with fry, but I am not there yet so I am trying to maximize survival rates. My other thought on the issues was that I read some people advise to not remove the female. If I do it could cause the hierarchy to change and she might get picked on when reintroduced.

Thanks for the ideas of things to try. I will give them a shot this evening.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

you could try lifting the air line,so that its closer to the surface first,what I do is let the mother hold long enough so that the eggs are further along in development,much higher survival rates this way,usually at the end of the second week from fertilization


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I probably put that wrong. Letting nature do it would involve leaving the female with the male and that is a sure loss. My solution is a mix of nature with me involved. I've not run into any problems with the female being abused when she goes back into the main tank. I give them plenty of options for hiding and they get along well.

I find there are many stories about African cichlids that were developed when Africans were new and the story has never been changed. The problem as I see it is that the first Africans imported were among the worst to deal with. When I first started breeding peacocks, the store would not accept the fry as they were considered too aggressive! If you look around at some of the books written and still used, the original printing is sometimes thirthy years ago and we have learned a lot about dealing with African cichlids since then. But the books still say the same dumb things!!!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I have those same tumblers. The air line is attached to a fitting at the bottom of that tube, so there's no moving it. If you can't get more air from the pump, then you'll need to cut down the uplift tube, so you can raise the tumbler. Don't raise it so high that it comes out of the water, you're correct, it won't work as well.

But, having said that, you may have enough flow already. The eggs don't need to tumble around like ping pong balls and probably shouldn't. You just need fresh water flowing through it. They really don't need to 'tumble' or move a lot. If some are fungusing, they probably weren't fertile.

One gripe I have with this tumbler is how much trouble it is to get into it. The tubes fit by friction, so you have to tighten it up to keep it from falling apart. Then if you need to get into it, you get into a wrestling match with it in the tank. There's very little to grab onto at the top fitting that the clear tube fits onto. Fine if you don't need to get into it, I guess.

I made a poor man's tumbler by just hanging a net in a tank and running a sponge filter near it. I've seen some that use the brass coffee filters that are inserted in foam, so they float. I'm going to make some of those, and give away the high tech stuff.


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## cdavitt (Apr 4, 2011)

awesome! even more good input!

Keeping track of which one is holding and how far along has been tough. I got the tumbler so I could just strip whenever I saw one holding so I wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have to worry about it or keep the schedule of each female written down. I also found the longer I let them hold, the fewer fry/eggs there would be. Last time I left the mother hold 3 weeks there was maybe 6 fry. This one I stripped last night (probably 1 week in) still had 26 wigglers.

It makes sense about some stories being old wives tales or established when the hobby was young (egg crate on glass anyone?) I try to come here to get input with current info from people who are active in the hobby. This website has been invaluable!

Thanks for the additional info on water flow and fungus prov. I've only tumbled a few batches. Good to know sometimes the fungus is just from decaying unfertilized eggs. I just want to make sure itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s not from an egg resting on its side for 3 days on the same spot. There certainly is water flow as I can see the wrigglers tailed waving in the current.

I'll fiddle with it tonight hopefully and give feedback.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

What type mbuna are you working with? Six seems like very low if it is a full size female. The only time I get batches that small is for the really small and young females. As they get older the mouth seems to get more room for larger batches. Most of the time it doesn't bother me to have small numbers though. There is a limit to how many I can grow out to a worthwhile size so 20 is a good number for me to work with. I get more than that from the larger Africans but then it just gets down to culling more of them as they grow.


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