# 1 Demasoni taken over half the tank! help



## apex82 (Jul 16, 2010)

I just wanted to know if its normal for one male demasoni to take over half of my 46 gallon tank. He seems out of the way vicious and will not let one fish on that side of the tank. He will also go to the other side and pick on a bunch of fish and then head back to his side. I just wanted to know if it was normal for one male to take up such a large space or is he being to much of a bully? There is other aggression in the tank however, it is short bursts and does not include chasing up and down across the whole tank! By the way he is acting I think I could have my first dead fish in a few days... I attached a pic to show the large rock pile on the left that he dominates. The other 16 fish just hang out on the right side, not even one can hang out in a back crevice on the left. Time for him to go back to the store? Or is it inevitable that another one will do the exact same thing once he is gone?


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## nauTik (Mar 18, 2009)

your stocklist has quite a few problems for such a small tank.

Also your rockwork could also be causing issues, someties you gotta sacrifice aesthetics for your fish.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

From "My Tanks", I agree the stock list is the problem. 
8 Demasoni 
2 Rustys 
5 Yellow Labs 
2 Electric Blue Jack Dempseys 
1 Electric Blue Crayfish 
2 Synodontis Multipunctuatus 
1 Snowball Pleco LDA33 
2 Acei 
1 Bristlenose Pleco

I'd choose a single dwarf species for this tank. Demasoni would work, but you would want to remove the other species and double the Demasoni.

Rustys and labs would also work as a single species. Acei get too big. Don't know anything about JDs except they are problematical mixed with mbuna.


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## apex82 (Jul 16, 2010)

I understand the stocklist, I am planning on upgrading in a year or so. They are all under 3-4 months old. However, the other fish have nothing to do with the aggression. He is aggressive to all the fish except for the EBJD's. If it it was all demasoni, he would be doing the same thing. I am wondering about the one male demasoni behaviour and if it is normal for them to take up over half the tank and then relentless bully the other fish on the other side of the tank every few minutes?

You say rockwork could be the case... what do you mean by this? Have less rock? more?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Eight demasoni in a 36" tank with those tankmates...yes it is normal. He can be expected to kill all the other demasoni one by one until he is the only one left.

I tried nine demasoni in a 36" tank myself as my first tank. I also had a trio of labs, but no other species.

He is telling you upgrade time is now. :thumb:

Maybe remove all the Demasoni until you get the larger tank. I would expect the pairs to also give you problems once the Demasoni are removed.


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## poseidons minions (Dec 1, 2009)

send your blue demon to me


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Your dem probably *is* aggressive towards the EBJD...the JD is just standing up to it as another aggressive fish. You'll probably see them challenging each other from time to time (most likely when the lights go off), and if not, then the dem might not want to mess with the JD as long as it stays out of his territory. Just watch the JD's fins. If you start seeing chunks missing, remove the JD immediately to a hospital tank.


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## nauTik (Mar 18, 2009)

apex82 said:


> I understand the stocklist, I am planning on upgrading in a year or so. They are all under 3-4 months old. However, the other fish have nothing to do with the aggression. He is aggressive to all the fish except for the EBJD's. If it it was all demasoni, he would be doing the same thing. I am wondering about the one male demasoni behaviour and if it is normal for them to take up over half the tank and then relentless bully the other fish on the other side of the tank every few minutes?
> 
> You say rockwork could be the case... what do you mean by this? Have less rock? more?


you need to realize the reason for tank size requirements isn't just about size of the fish, it's about territories and aggression. You have too many fish that are going to be way too big for that tank, and too many species for that size tank right NOW. I can't even imagine all your fish would still be alive if you're going to wait a year before making a change.

Most people don't have issues until at least a year or so down the line, you having issues already after a few months proves you need to upgrade now.

By rockwork I meant once you cut down your species to just the demasoni you could try adding more rock if the problem persists. Rocks aren't just in there to look pretty, they create territories, and if you don't have enough separate territories for your dems most of them will not color up or there will be aggression issues.


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## apex82 (Jul 16, 2010)

I just dont understand why the many species has to do with this one male aggression? He is only malicious to the other demasoni, he just wont let the other species on that side of the tank(except for EBJD's). Removing all the other species would probably make his behaviour worse...

I am going to try to catch him and seperate for a few days and see what happens. Half the tank seems a bit much for a territory for one fish... I would remove him permanently but I just had my first fry and have 2 other females holding most likely from him.


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Removing the dominant fish will only allow for the sub-dominant dem to step into his place. The aggression might lessen for a bit, but not disappear. This is the main problem with demasoni--you need upwards of 12, or just 1. Having less than 12 will mean you'll only have 1 left very soon.

Here's what we're saying about having so many species: Mbuna aren't like community fish. You *cannot* treat them like community fish, throwing in anything that looks good. They aren't peaceful fish. They'll rip each other to bits. It's a simple fact.

We aren't trying to be mean or anything, we're just trying to tell you that you need to change your set up or return the fish--or they're going to die soon and you'll have wasted your money.

And the more species you have, the more egos you have--i.e. different personalities and ways of interacting. The one male dem is acting the way he is because he feels threatened--he doesn't have enough room in the tank and so he is fighting for it by restricting the others.

I would first remove the Jack--it needs at least a 55g tank anyway (4ft tank). It'll start bullying soon and vying to be the dominant fish, which means taking on all your dems. They get that big forehead--they use it for ramming. Seriously.

Your rusties, labs, and acei are the more nice ones...I think they'll get caught in the crossfire.


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## apex82 (Jul 16, 2010)

I understand when all of these guys are mature that this setup will not work and need a larger tank. However, removing every fish but the demasoni and adding more so there is 12 plus will not solve the issue of this one little bugger. He will still be under that perch attacking other fish every minute or so...

I just found it a bit odd that one male could control 2 ft of a tank and then attack the others remaining in the other foot.

If I added more rocks so that it was just a rock wall along the back rather then two piles. It might help curb his aggression as there will be no clear territory then?


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## Marylandwahoo (Mar 18, 2007)

But it will disperse the aggression and prevent the dominant fish from picking on a one fish at a time until they are all gone; plus by adding more you stand a better chance of finding one that will be able to stand up to the dominant guy, and thus creating a balance of power scenario-- because he might be looking over his shoulder instead of relentless attacking the other demasoni


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

OK--as long as you have a plan... :thumb:

You can try rearranging the rock work. Then they'll have to redefine the territories, and adding a lot more rock can help. My Mbuna tank is about 75% rock. Use whatever you like, but I'd double what you have now--build a solid wall across the floor, and maybe go up higher in the tank.

You can remove the dom fish for a few days to cool off (2-3 maybe), and then rearrange before you put him back in, but it may not change anything. Like I said, he might just move down in the pecking order..and another dem will take his spot in the time he's gone.

I would think about looking for a 55g (craigslist--always free tanks there, though you may have to clean it). And then I'd split up what you have currently into those two tanks. Maybe keep the dems in the 46 bow (get a few more)--leave that a species tank, and move the acei, rusties, and labs into the 55g (and I'd up the numbers so you have the proper 1 male to 4-5 female ratio). Then split up your bottom feeders, or move most to the 55.

I'd wait for seconds on the idea about the dem species tank in the 46--I don't know if that's enough room for them or not.

Dems are a #4 on the difficulty scale for a reason--check out the profile on them. They're very aggressive. Mbuna, in the wild, set up territory and defend it to the death--they also fight over food. The dom fish can keep the other fish from eating. I'm not surprised one fish would take over... (As an example, not Mbuna, but still somewhat relevant--I have a Green terror in a 55g with one other male Convict. The GT took 3.5 ft of the tank as its territory. The Con, nearly the same size, hides in a pile of clay pots--never comes out except to eat. I'm now forced to cycle a new tank to move the Con to because the next step for the GT is to kill my Con and take the remaining tank space....)

It happens....the fish decide. You just have to go with it. I've read that many people have to constantly remove and replace dems. The sub-dom males get harassed and you remove them or they get killed. It's just how this species works. I hope, at some point, you can find a balance.


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## apex82 (Jul 16, 2010)

Thanks for all the input guys. At this point I dont want to add another tank. I started this hobby 4 months ago and now have this 46, a 10 shell dweller and another 10 gall fry tank lol.

I am having a hard time catching him, he is the smartest out of all of them. So I am going to add another 75 lbs of rock and create a slope type look from left to right and see if that helps.


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## KiDD (Aug 20, 2010)

This is why I decided to put Angel fish in my 46 Gallon Bowfront.. Just not enough room or ground space for Cichlids I would want to keep.

I licked having the Cichlids I just rather them be in a tank with room for them to have there own space.


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Yes, it's strange how one's tanks just...keep...multiplying...

:lol:

The rock is only a stalling technique. Watch for damaged fins and be sure to remove the injured fish quickly to your hospital tank. Good luck :thumb:


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## apex82 (Jul 16, 2010)

Well just thought I would give a little update. Its been just over a week since I sold the dominant male. It basically looks like a community tank now... no aggression at all. Hope it lasts!


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## misterted (Sep 12, 2003)

Sometimes a male can become hyper aggressive, that is just the nature of the individual. In your case that is what happened. You would have to be very lucky for there not to be any more problems in that tank for the next year or so. too small with too many fish, but of course it's not impossible. Some people just need to learn as they go along.

Good luck and enjoy.


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