# Severum and Mbuna's



## testtube (Jan 23, 2014)

Hi All
I have recently put an severum in with my mbuna,s and here is the outcome. At first the alpha mbuna males gave the severum a bad time.  even though the severum is twice their size. When I recently restocked my tank I got ride of all the alpha male mbuna,s and replace them with tin foil barbs. This greatly improved the aggresion factor in this tank. The foils are a great dither fish and fun to watch scooting around the tank. It's also fun to feed them lettuce and watch the foils and severum fight over it.  
beaker


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## Cobalt Blue (Mar 14, 2014)

You shouldn't have put the severum with the mbunas in the first place. Mbunas and Severums require different water parameters. Mbunas are from African..Severums from South America.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Cobalt Blue said:


> You shouldn't have put the severum with the mbunas in the first place. Mbunas and Severums require different water parameters. Mbunas are from African..Severums from South America.


That, and the fact that they can't communicate with eachother, and have different diets, and the Severums are wimps compared to Mbuna. This was a very bad idea IMO.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

The 'communication' issue has no factual basis. It isn't like new world cichlids speak Spanish and old world cichlids speak Swahili, creating a big language barrier between them :lol:

That aside, you have seen for yourself that the alpha mbuna - which are the ones most responsible for defending the group's territory - are beating the snot out of the severums. Taking the alpha mbuna out is only a temporary fix, because the group will soon re-establish the hacking order, and another fish will become the alpha of the group...


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

fmueller said:


> The 'communication' issue has no factual basis. It isn't like new world cichlids speak Spanish and old world cichlids speak Swahili


I was under the impression that they did actually speak different body languages. One fish threatening the other may be interpreted as flirting, or not interpreted at all, causing more problems. That's what I've been reading for 10 years.
Case in point I had a female betta in with bolivian rams 10 years ago. The female betta was quite attracted to the male ram and would constantly flirt with him. Because his threat of "Leave me alone" was so similar to her "come mate with me", problems ensued.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

pablo111 said:


> I was under the impression that they did actually speak different body languages. One fish threatening the other may be interpreted as flirting, or not interpreted at all, causing more problems. That's what I've been reading for 10 years.


I've never read anything of the kind - at least not from any trustworthy source. If you remember where you read it, or come across it again, I would be very grateful for a PM or email pointing me to the source of this information. Of course if it could be found in scientific literature that would lend it the greatest credibility.



pablo111 said:


> Case in point I had a female betta in with bolivian rams 10 years ago. The female betta was quite attracted to the male ram and would constantly flirt with him. Because his threat of "Leave me alone" was so similar to her "come mate with me", problems ensued.


The idea that mate recognition should fail between species as different in shape as rams and bettas is rather far fetched in my opinion. To be frank, it sounds to me like you were anthropomorphizing behavior that was based on two fish competing for territory, but again, I am happy to be educated if any studies have been done that support the different body language theory in fish. It comes up in internet forums time and time again, but so do Bigfoot sightings :wink:


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sasquatch is real fmueller.... Just accept it!


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Sasquatch is real fmueller.... Just accept it!


Now that a CF moderator said it, I guess the case is settled :lol:


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Severums and mbuna do not "require" different water parameters. However, there are numerous reasons not to put them together, many of which have been listed above.


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## Pramodh (Mar 29, 2014)

I've just done this.. severums in a mbuna tank.. electric yellows and blue peacocks... didnt read this post when I picked up the fish earlier today.

So far it looks quite peaceful. i want to get rid of the albino red eyes as they are the only ones harrasing the the severum. One problem i have is the good old.. how do i catch the 2 of them without stressing the other fish and disturbing the decor.


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## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

fmueller said:


> I've never read anything of the kind - at least not from any trustworthy source. If you remember where you read it, or come across it again, I would be very grateful for a PM or email pointing me to the source of this information. Of course if it could be found in scientific literature that would lend it the greatest credibility.
> :


It was the commonly held belief in the late 70's, early 80's... as to whether there was any scientific credibility???



> Fish communicate with each other through body language, and this will include changing shades of colour, alternating body patterns, and various different body shakes and wiggles. Problems arise when mixing cichlids from Africa and South & Central America because they speak different languages. Basically the same shake from an African cichlid may mean a different thing to a CA or SA cichlid.


From the book; Cichlids: Everything about Purchase, Care, Nutrition, Behavior, and Training
By David M. Schleser



> have evolved different body languages, it is strongly advised not to mix cichlids


It is also mentioned in a number of other texts.... is it true????


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