# Yellow Cichlids mouth and nose turning brown.



## Crisco76 (Oct 2, 2017)

Hello all. I am new to forums but have been reading lots for couple years. Can anyone please tell me why or what this might be and how to treat it? I have read so many things and looked at so many pictures with regards to what it is or how to fight it. I have 55g gallon with fluval cannister and the tank was recently a bit higher in ammonia levels so I have been doing a water change every 24hours with some prime until it is lowered. I have some zeo carb but never used it before and was told just for emergency use it to lower ammonia levels as I dont wanna starve the bacteria. Is this correct? Now i noticed 3 of my electric yellows started to have brown noses and such but due to some extra fish i rescued they could of been fighting or lip dancing but I never saw them do it. Now there mouth and nose is dark brown, 1 is lethargic but the other 2 still lively and eating but one his mouth looks like its mummified or something. I couldnt find any info on what to do. I dont want them to die, nor affect the others in the tank. I have 5 3-4inch yellow, a blood jewel, blue cobalt and chocolate pleco. I have been trying to vary the food i give them, and i just dont know what to do, I know the ammonia was higher but they started this before that happend. Here is some pics of the nose mouth and cichlids healthy and the sick ones,


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Looks like he's been repetitively injuring his snout trying to dig in the gravel. That's why it's preferable to have sand with African cichlids.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The fish looks stressed overall...I'm seeing the "dirty" coloration on his yellow body...as well as his nose/mouth.

You have just the 5 small labs and the cobalt for Africans in the 55G? Is the cobalt male or female?

What are your test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Your beneficial bacteria should "eat" all the ammonia, so you should not need chemicals.


----------



## Crisco76 (Oct 2, 2017)

Well long story short I rescued a tank full of yellow cichlids and was given a second 55g tank, a 305 fluval, 405 fluval, misc pumps heaters etc. He told me 10 yellow cichids in a 55g tank the tenants just up and left. If i had not of picked them up he was just gonna flush them all. Well it turned out there was 31 cichlids in it. I had a 35g half cycled and my original 55g. Basically had to dump some in my 55g, my half cycled 35g and a few days later i got the extra 55g tank home and using it now. I figured I'd try and save as many from being flushed. As it turns out of the 31 only 2 died. One in transport and the other i found on the floor. The 3 sickly yellows were not part of this group. The 2 new tanks are actually doing ok but the extra waste and stress affected the original tank which I am now doing water changes everyday and using prime until I can get them down. The ph is or has been around 7.5 or so, the nitrites was about .25-.50 and the ammonia very high thus the water changes everyday and the adding of bacteria to help break down the waste. the cichids are not that tiny about 4 inches. The cobalt zebra i believe is a male but he kinda keeps to himself. The red jewel just does whatever it wants and doesnt fight. I didnt see much aggression as I thought i might but i had to make a quick decision or they all would be dead. I have never seen them digging in the gravel and didnt know about the sand so thanks for that. I keep the water around 80 its hard in this old house and i have been adding salt as my lfs had told me. There is actually 9 cichlids total in that tank and a chocolate pleco There are some 5-7 inch in the too other tanks but there hasnt been aggression either they all huddle i big group like they did when I first saw them so no issues with those 2 tanks yet. I do have a smaller 15'20g in my sons room with 3 smaller yellows. Should i isolate the sickly ones? Its not a fungus then or parasites perhaps? They started kinda changing color at or around same time the new ones came and want to say before even. I just feel bad as the ones mouth looks like its caving in but hes still active and eats everyday. I also am still learning the ins and outs of the fish I have or was given by others when they were gonna just kill them. I also try and research what to do and finding the forums is excellent. I just know something wasn't right with those 3 sickly ones and needed the help of others to diagnose and hopefully keep them alive and not have it spread if its not stress caused


----------



## Crisco76 (Oct 2, 2017)

Does anyone else maybe have any ideas or suggestions why a few might of turned brown and or their mouths are sunk in, Neither of them are ever digging in the gravel or bashing into anything. The stress might of caused it but I'm sure they had begun before the new temp fish housing, any thing i can just try in the meantime without harming rest of tank


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd put them in a hospital tank with no substrate and observe.

The brown color is usually stress. I've never heard of a condition that causes the nose/mouth to be sunken in.


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Columnaris can cause the mouth to rot away but it's usually characterized by white fuzz... I don't see that in the pictures. Are they fighting or lip-locking at all? They could be losing tissue around the mouth from that. It's definitely not normal for them to not at least attempt to dig also. I agree that there's probably some sort of stressor that is causing the abnormal coloration. I don't know of any "brown" fish diseases and I've taken in many sick fish.


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

After looking at the pictures again, I recall seeing a pair of male oscars that someone had been keeping in a 40 gallon tank. One of the oscars was missing nearly the entire bottom lip because they were fighting all the time. Your pictures are consistent with injuries sustained from fighting and "lip-locking." Also it would explain the stress coloration...


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I am also thinking an old injury. We may never know. At least see what you can do to stop the damage from progressing by isolating the fish with no gravel or other fish to be risk factors.


----------



## Crisco76 (Oct 2, 2017)

Actually there is a form of cotton mouth and it transforms into mouth rot. Basically the front of the face where the white fuzz was turns into this or can and it affects all different type of fish and my son and i are at home staggered times so they are monitored and actually in all 3 tanks there is little to no aggression so I know its not from that. *** only seen a pair of younger males doing the non stop circling. I have added salt to the tanks and like i said doing water changes every 24 hours. A note my son said is that the original yellows we got the 3 from he said he noticed that quite a few had white beard looking faces. So perhaps its a advanced form of it. Either way i am gonna keep up the water change and I added a dose of tetra fungistop in case it is. None of the others have anything wrong, knock on wood


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Okay, well I wasn't aware from the information given, that there was a white fuzz until now. It certainly could be a culprit but it would still have the fuzz if it was infected by it and I couldn't see that in the pictures


----------



## Crisco76 (Oct 2, 2017)

No i dont think there really was any white fuzz i meant that a fish who has had the fuzz can develop mouth rot, sorry i did not mean mine but the wording is funny. But all three original yellows have it and that one is the worst, He still is alive and *** been doing daily water changes to keep the levels down while the tank cycles completely. I treated the whole tank with tetra fungistop but didnt know if it helped anything. I will keep up the water changes and the temp is raised with some salt added. I picked up some of the Marineland all in pne cures would it hurt to treat the tank with it?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It always hurts to use meds when fish are not sick, just like it does for humans. But you could isolate the one with the illness and/or injury and treat him if you think it might benefit him.


----------



## Crisco76 (Oct 2, 2017)

Its odd tho that its been a couple weeks and once and awhile the brown goes to a light grey or almost back to normal. His lips look a bit sunken in but they arent rotting or losing them, He still is active and eats but once and awhile hes kinda all by himself like a out cast but I haven't see any bullying and there is not a bully as far i can tell. nitrites and ammonia levels *** got down to .25 and im still doing a 25-30% water changes every 24 hours until the bacteria catches up with bio load. I guess I'm just really concerned as last year I lost 7/14 fish within 36 hours and never knew what did it. This fish wasnt here then but I hated basically watching a the fish just die in front of my eyes. (I'm thinking a contaminant got inside water but will never know)


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The change in color supports the idea that it is stress...when he feels better the color improves. The outcast behavior occasionally as well.


----------



## Crisco76 (Oct 2, 2017)

Also it said that as they get older or mature they also get the brown faces and bearding or brown marks, so I can see how people get kinda messed up when one place says one thing and there is conflicting stories or facts that are similar to each other. I really was worried I was facing a colum outbreak which I never had to deal with yet


----------



## Cichnewbie (Jun 14, 2018)

I am having the same problem - I also rescued a yellow cichlid and it's been doing fine for 2 years. However, I introduced some store bought mystery and blue snails to help with algae, (which all the snails died within a couple of weeks and even the established snail I had, died) and since then, my yellow has had a grey mustache that looks kind of like a mold on him (not cottony at all). There is also like a grey mold on other parts of the body. We did a half tank water change and it appeared to clear up for about 3 days and then the grey came back. I know everything says it's probably stress but since the snails died quickly, it makes me feel as if there was a disease or parasite introduced into the tank. 
Also, he has barely eaten in 3 days. He goes like he wants to eat the food but then doesn't and swims sporadically around the tank. He's also being very weird and just hovering around the side of the tank - not at the top though - not gasping, just like he puts himself in timeout against the wall. He will also kind of swim in fast spurts real quick and then just hover against the wall again. He's the only one on his side of the split tank and he cannot see the blue cobalt on the other side, who is doing better than ever! Blue used to be scared of me everytime I came around and now he looks me right in the face with no fear, waiting for his food. He does have one white spot on a fin that has not enlarged or gotten red or anything for months. He shows no signs of the grey mold appearance. None of their fins are ragged or anything at all and as far as I can see with the naked eye, there are no parasites latched on or none of the typical symptoms I'm reading about. I know ich, and that one spot is not ich for sure. I believe it was an injury from how scared he used to get a would swim and hide from me. The yellow does have a few pale red veiny spots under skin but doesn't look like the disease pics at all.

Does anyone have any guidance on how to treat this? I don't want to stress my fish more than it has to with chemicals! Also, he has barely eaten in 3 days. He goes like he wants to eat the food but then doesn't and swims sporadically around the tank. He's also being very weird and just hovering around the side of the tank - not at the top though - not gasping, just like he puts himself in timeout against the wall. He's the only one on his side of the split tank and he cannot see the blue cobalt on the other side, who is doing better than ever! Blue used to be scared of me everytime I came around and now he looks me right in the face with no fear, waiting for his food. He does have one white spot on a fin that has not enlarged or gotten red or anything for months. He shows no signs of the grey mold appearance. None of their fins are ragged or anything at all and as far as can see with the naked eye, there are no parasites latched on. I know ich, and that one spot is not ich for sure. I believe it was an injury from how scared he used to get and would swim and hide from me. Also, I use well water, if that is possibly a cause.

Thanks for any help you have!


----------

