# Orinoco Biotope Project Help



## KratosSophia (Dec 16, 2015)

Fauna:

Crenicichla regani
Dicrossus filamentosus
Apistogramma inridae
Mikrogeophagus ramirezi
Biotodama wavrini
Axelrodia risei
Paracheirodon axelrodi
Nanostomus unifasciatus
Farlowella acus
Corydoras metae
Hypancistrus sp. "L201"

Flora:

Eleocharis acicularis

Approx. 300 gallon custom 30"H x 100"L x 25"D

Questions:

1. Is the mix of fish okay, or are there any I should omit? Any that you would suggest I add? Replace?

2. Substrate. What could be good substrate?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Welcome to Cichlid Forum! Sounds like a great project. This isn't what you've asked about but you may want to chose different flora. You will need a lot of light to have success with eleocharis acicularis in a 30" tall tank. It may take away from the biotope look you want to create. A variety of echinodorus and/or sagittaria may work better along with some floating plants to create areas with more shade.

I'm looking forward to seeing pics once you're set up.


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## KratosSophia (Dec 16, 2015)

zimmy said:


> Welcome to Cichlid Forum! Sounds like a great project. This isn't what you've asked about but you may want to chose different flora. You will need a lot of light to have success with eleocharis acicularis in a 30" tall tank. It may take away from the biotope look you want to create. A variety of echinodorus and/or sagittaria may work better along with some floating plants to create areas with more shade.
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing pics once you're set up.


Hello zimmy!

Thank you for your response! I will look into your suggestion. In any case, is there any species of floating plants you can suggest? I haven't had experience with them.


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## KratosSophia (Dec 16, 2015)

Regarding the look I plan to achieve with this tank, I have a peg which is a tank by Jesper Taustrup here:










Image posted at: aquatic-gardeners.org

The changes I will make are:

1. Only one tree bark which will be at the left side. Right side will be an outcrop with roots sticking out.

2. There will be much less exposed substrate in the background. Instead, I will have more leaf litter which is logical since there should be a tree above. The foreground will have a mostly substrate part for the earth eaters to enjoy.

3. There will be more plants esp. on the right side.

4. More twigs and branches bunched up in the middle, back.

5. After zimmy's suggestion, I will have more foliage above. I havent decided on floating plants, but I may have live plants drooping over from the supposed outcrop.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

I've recently learned that fine sand is the most natural substrate you can use short of mud (and you can't really use mud!). However, I use a general purpose sand, which actually has a lot of pebbles and gravel particles in it, which looks much more natural than just pure sand.

I'm sure the _Crenicichla_ would appreciate all the snacks you've got listed there. As much as I love the Dwarf Pikes, I'm afraid they would be a problem for your Tetras and especially for the _Dicrossus_ and Apistos. Otherwise, not a bad combination. However, I believe there is confusion over Cardinal Tetras in the Orinoco. I've seen videos of "Cardinals" in the wild Orinoco, but the fish were actually Green Neons, _Paracheirodon simulans_, actually easily identified by the fact that the blue line goes all the way to the base of the tail. I remember the days when these fish would show up in stores misidentified as Cardinals. These days they are usually correctly identified, but I believe the past confusion persists as to where they occur in the wild.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Amazon frogbit or Brazilian Pennywort (which can be used as a floating plant) are two options I would consider. Floating plants don't do well with a lot of surface agitation though.

BTW if you haven't seen it you may want to google Mongabay biotope. There's great information there for setting up a biotope tank.


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## KratosSophia (Dec 16, 2015)

Mr Chromedome said:


> I've recently learned that fine sand is the most natural substrate you can use short of mud (and you can't really use mud!). However, I use a general purpose sand, which actually has a lot of pebbles and gravel particles in it, which looks much more natural than just pure sand.
> 
> I'm sure the _Crenicichla_ would appreciate all the snacks you've got listed there. As much as I love the Dwarf Pikes, I'm afraid they would be a problem for your Tetras and especially for the _Dicrossus_ and Apistos. Otherwise, not a bad combination. However, I believe there is confusion over Cardinal Tetras in the Orinoco. I've seen videos of "Cardinals" in the wild Orinoco, but the fish were actually Green Neons, _Paracheirodon simulans_, actually easily identified by the fact that the blue line goes all the way to the base of the tail. I remember the days when these fish would show up in stores misidentified as Cardinals. These days they are usually correctly identified, but I believe the past confusion persists as to where they occur in the wild.


I have white, brown, and red sand. I'm also able to obtain river stones and pebbles. I wonder about the color of the substrate? I might mix up different colors to achieve what the substrate should look like.

Thanks for the clarification on the Cardinals. I will buy neons instead. They are cheaper anyway.

Actually, I've never had a problem with the Crenicichla. I'm actually upgrading from a 150 gallon and I already have the Crenicichla in there along with the Dicrossus and the Apistos. As for the dithers, I already have the pencil fish in there and they are relatively slow so there should have been losses if they have been viewed as prey. So far so good, but I will keep an eye out. They are about a year old. 4" male and 3" female. That being said, I won't expect fry from any of the other cichlids.


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## KratosSophia (Dec 16, 2015)

zimmy said:


> Amazon frogbit or Brazilian Pennywort (which can be used as a floating plant) are two options I would consider. Floating plants don't do well with a lot of surface agitation though.
> 
> BTW if you haven't seen it you may want to google Mongabay biotope. There's great information there for setting up a biotope tank.


Would the plants be disturbed by water level changes? I am planning on adding an automated drain feature that will drain the tank of 20% water for a few days and then replacing the water via sprinkler/drip system replicating rainfall. It's just a concept for now.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Water changes will not cause problems. It's constant agitation that can lead to some of them rotting.


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## KratosSophia (Dec 16, 2015)

Mr Chromedome said:


> I'm sure the _Crenicichla_ would appreciate all the snacks you've got listed there. As much as I love the Dwarf Pikes, I'm afraid they would be a problem for your Tetras and especially for the _Dicrossus_ and Apistos.


It would also be interesting to note that my Crenicichla regani never touched adult fish. Before I acquired them, I invested in a colony of feeder guppies in order to provide an entertaining way of feeding (I might burn in **** for being entertained by the slaughter). I targeted males because they were small and would easily fit the mouth. However, after my first guppy feeding, I thought maybe they were just picky, but they never touch the guppies, so I gave them bloodworms. The following day, I got some juvenile guppies instead, no go either. So I decided to give some guppy fry, and that's when things started looking livelier. After that, I learned that their favorite food were guppy fry (and convict fry that I just don't need that much of).

As for agression, I got 5 of them initially, and now there's two. The others didn't die, I gave them away, nah actually I tried to sell them but due to the qulity, there weren't many takers. They were in one piece though, save for a few rips in some fins and a few missing scales.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

Not Neons, Green Neons. Different species, looks like a Cardinal, but has a longer blue stripe. The regular Neons are from Peru, and prefer cooler water.

I am surprised to hear that your regani seem to prefer very small prey over normal size, but if you are certain of their behavior, then good luck with them. Mine ate juvenile Cichlids as well, that is why I believed they would eat small adult fish. Very Interesting.

Just don't forget some pictures when it's done!


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## KratosSophia (Dec 16, 2015)

Mr Chromedome said:


> Not Neons, Green Neons. Different species, looks like a Cardinal, but has a longer blue stripe. The regular Neons are from Peru, and prefer cooler water.
> 
> I am surprised to hear that your regani seem to prefer very small prey over normal size, but if you are certain of their behavior, then good luck with them. Mine ate juvenile Cichlids as well, that is why I believed they would eat small adult fish. Very Interesting.
> 
> Just don't forget some pictures when it's done!


Will do on the green neons. 
I was actually very frustrated with these Crenicichla because I actually wanted them for their predatory behavior. Now I love them for the flaring dance they do all the time. I have seen them halfheartedly chase away the Dicrossus but I've never lost one to them and they don't seem to even peck at them.

I will definitely post photos, maybe a video too. This is my most ambitious build tbh


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## KratosSophia (Dec 16, 2015)

Here's someone elses video on their regani with some Dicrossus as well. It seems I'm not the only one with non-aggressive Crenicichla.


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## jamntoast3 (May 15, 2015)

I have heard other places that c. regani are pretty chill and don't go after anything too big, maybe it has to do with how hungry they really are or what size food they were raised on. interesting to note either way though. this tank sounds great, cant wait to see the finished product


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