# 400ish and something gallon DIY plywood tank. Design stage.



## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

Hey all, I appreciate you viewing my thread. I plan on building a rather unconventional plywood tank. My desired INSIDE measurements are 72"x36"x48"(height)

I know the height is a concern. I'm very concerned with pricing and want to be able to use the cheapest glass that will sufficiently hold that much water, at that height. On the upside, I was planning on bracing with 2"x6's all the way around the front, so that will take a foot off of the viewing area. Actual glass size will be about 66"x42" (to allow for 3 inches seal on all sides). I'd like to have a 5'x40" viewing glass, but I dont think it's doable. What thickness will work and does it have to be tempered or will plate work?

One of my main concerns is the poop and other debris (what's the word? detritus?) on the bottom. I dont want to have to siphon off the bottom constantly. I want it to be almost automatic. (I understand there's going to be maintenance, I mean I just want the tank as clean as possible for as long as possible. I want no brainer maintenance, like TFG)

Someone suggested that a coast to coast overflow would allow for maximum circulation, but I'm not still not so sure it'll get stuff on the bottom without some help from some UGJs or even an outflow somewhere near the bottom.

Anyway, here's my early EARLY designs complete with overflow and top half of plumbing. Please critique. Any and all feedback is wholeheartedly welcome. Any of it.

This is the rear view of the tank. Sump return on the right. Standpipes and closed loop in the middle. closed loop return on the left. 









Here it is with my awesome computer graphics knowledge evident:









Rear view from other side and another showing flow using awesome graphix skillz:

















Looking down at sump return line from above. 









Through the front showing flow of closed loop return.









Looking down from above at close loop return:









Down from above w/ Cross bracing:









From front with person showing general size:









And here's some pics with pipes, cross bracing and glass hidden so if anyone feels like editing a pic please feel free. All ideas are welcome. 









































I hope all the pics come out ok. The preview doesn't show em. Thanks for viewing and any help/advice/criticism is very welcome.

edit: hrmm. pics failed horribly. working on it now

edit 2: pics are good now


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## John_Auberry (Dec 14, 2006)

Id make it 8ft long because ply is 8ft, don't know about the glass though.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I agree... go 8'

Also... if you want the bottom to be kept clean use UGJs. They work great along with a spray bar running full length you can create a current running the whole length of the tank keeping poo from settling...


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## DarcyG (Nov 15, 2008)

Don't know if this is a good idea or not but we are going to use glass table tops. We aquired about 40 of these for free. They sat around until we decided to do a wall tank. Now as I have the fever thinking of making one like yours. Perhaps you can find in your area. Look for used furniture. I can't ship this too easy or I'd offer you one. Good luck!


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

Why so tall? What fish are you planning on keeping? If you're keeping something that needs that much vertical height compared to tank footprint, then great. Are you short on space, and trying to get gallonage through extra height? If not, I'd go with the longer, shorter tank.

Why don't you make it 48" wide and 36" tall? Makes the glass a little cheaper. Makes reaching the bottom a little easier. You could also do 85" inside length, and not have to cut any 8' pieces of wood. Either way, you're buying 8' pieces of wood, why cut a foot off?

BTW, with your current dimensions, I think you're going to have significantly more volume than 400 ish. Try around 600 ish.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

DarcyG said:


> Don't know if this is a good idea or not but we are going to use glass table tops.


I personally would not use tempered glass, as it shatters instead of just cracking...


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

thank you for the great replies guys. I woulda answered sooner but i didn't get a notification about any replies. Anyways.. Here's my thoughts:

[


> I agree... go 8'
> 
> Also... if you want the bottom to be kept clean use UGJs. They work great along with a spray bar running full length you can create a current running the whole length of the tank keeping poo from settling...


The only reason I didn't go with 8' is because I like the look of deeper tanks and was worried about the water pressure on a longer tank with that height.. Liking the way higher tanks look is also the only reason I'm choosing a deep tank. Nothing to do with fish. I just think tanks look nicer and more spacious when there's alot of height and depth, instead of just length. Sure a fish can swim for days in one direction.. But can't ever go up or down in a slimmer or shorter tank. That's all.

I think i am going with UGJ. That's what I put into my "drawings" anyway. How does my design look? ok enough? Do i need more jets?

Do you think my height is too high for glass? What thickness would you go with?



> Don't know if this is a good idea or not but we are going to use glass table tops. We aquired about 40 of these for free. They sat around until we decided to do a wall tank. Now as I have the fever thinking of making one like yours. Perhaps you can find in your area. Look for used furniture. I can't ship this too easy or I'd offer you one. Good luck!


i would have no problems using tempered glass as it's stronger and even though it'll explode when there's a problem, I wouldn't push it to it's limit anyway. With a bunch of pieces to use, I wouldn't have a problem at all using them. I hear TFG's point, but the strength of tempered glass is ridiculous compared to that of plate...


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

btw, i did't originally go w/ 8'x4'x4' is because a) it's HUUUUGE b) i didn't like the extra 2' of glass length adding to the weakness in the middle. 6' long sounds stronger than 8' long to me. way off?

which of course leads me to the obvious question: what thickness of glass WOULD YOU USE on an 8'x4' tank? What about if i bust the tank down to 40" tall, take off the 2x6"s in exchange for 2x4"s (thereby keeping a viewing window of 32", only 4" less than if i went 48" tall) and went either 6' or 8'? what glass would you use? tempered or glass?

also the reason I started the topic with all the "400ish and somthing gallon..." is because I knew you guys would tell me I'd have to drop the height and thereby drop the gallon size etc...i know it's still up in the air on exact dimensions and honestly, it all comes down to what glass can handle. I'd like to stick with 1/2" thick if possible...


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

If you want to stick with 1/2" then make the tank dimentions (the box it's self) this:

8'x30"x30"

Then 1/2" will work. I suppose if you wanted to you could make it deeper than 30". By deeper I mean the front to back dimention. Stay with 30" for hieght and you can stay with 1/2" glass.


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

so if the viewing pane was only 30" but the water was 6" higher would that be okay? (i would add 2x6"s as bracing around the glass)

if i wanted a 40" height would you think that 3/4" would be sufficient?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

You could probably go 48" or more with 3/4", but you'll pay through the nose...

And I wouldn't go taller than 30" overall with 1/2".... My 800 was designed for 1/2", but I got one heck of a deal on the 3/4" so I couldn't or wouldn't pass it up...


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

thanks man. i'll check around and i think i'm gonna base my plans on what the glass pricing is. I don't exactly jack about acrylic so i dont consider it as an option. it's probably more expensive anyway.

I might be able to find some free glass. I know a crackhead or 2...

also one more glass question. how much extra height would going tempered get me? i know your hang ups about tempered, but just curious. I may actually post a seperate thread about glass thickness, but just curious. 1/2" plate vs 1/2" tempered. What would you feel comfortable with?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I would never feel comfortable with tempered... Sorry dude...


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

How much of a hurry are you in? Keep an eye out on Craigslist for glass, and base your aquarium around that. Depending on your time frame, it might save you a truck load of cash.

I found a 87x 37x 3/4" piece of glass for free. It's from an old door. All I had to do was get it out of the place they were tearing down. Heavy sucker...

I've seen table tops used, they were recently advertising old bus windshields...keep your eye out. You never know.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I have quite a few tempered tanks. Nothing (knock on a wood tank) has happened yet. They seem to receive fewer scratches. Algae is easier to remove for some reason. Perhaps the tempered is smoother or has a tighter surface.

A 48" tall tank would be great for Ophthalmotilapia. They spawn vertically, the female desending to catch her own falling eggs. They usually will learn to pick eggs up from the bottom in a shallow tank but then they can pick up other foreign objects as well. Rolling a rough textured piece of gravel around with the eggs can injure or kill them.

Completely unsold on the UGJ concept. I placed large powerheads in my big tanks, creating currents across the bottom of the tank that worked quite well to keep the gravel clean. The prefilter on the powerheads was low and flat so that helped it pick up detritus without circulating it for days until it hits the intake just right. UGJ's just don't have the flexibility
of a powerhead.


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

TheFishGuy said:


> I would never feel comfortable with tempered... Sorry dude...


lulz. i knew you were gonna say that  no worries


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

> How much of a hurry are you in? Keep an eye out on Craigslist for glass, and base your aquarium around that. Depending on your time frame, it might save you a truck load of cash.


Not in a hurry at all. I don't mind waiting and building my tank around whatever piece of glass I happen across. But if i was going to buy it, i just wasn't sure what size to go with. I'm hearing on other boards and in other threads that 1/2" tempered is just fine. So i'm open to changing the design or waiting and building around the glass or whatever. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row...[/quote]



> A 48" tall tank would be great for Ophthalmotilapia. They spawn vertically, the female desending to catch her own falling eggs. They usually will learn to pick eggs up from the bottom in a shallow tank but then they can pick up other foreign objects as well. Rolling a rough textured piece of gravel around with the eggs can injure or kill them.


thanks for the information. I haven't put any thought into stock list yet other than cichlids of sort. I'm a newb when it comes to fish names and species in general. i've seen some great yellow ones (benga something?) and it seems that my tastes fall in the general malawi, but again, this means nothing to me. I dont know what species orginate from there. I just saw a thread and the guy said that's all he liked and showed pics and i tended to agree. I do know that majority of TFG has is awesome too. Catfish and Oscars are awesome in general. So who knows



> Completely unsold on the UGJ concept. I placed large powerheads in my big tanks, creating currents across the bottom of the tank that worked quite well to keep the gravel clean. The prefilter on the powerheads was low and flat so that helped it pick up detritus without circulating it for days until it hits the intake just right. UGJ's just don't have the flexibility
> of a powerhead.


mind elaborating for me? What makes the powerhead more flexible? isn't it just a jet of water across the bottom of the tank? Why couldn't my closed loop do exactly the same thing, but instead just come up from the under the gravel and jet in the same direction as a powerhead? am i missing something?

my only concern is having powerheads in the tank. I want as little showing as possible and what has to be in the tank, i want to be able to hide with rocks and other stuff but still have access to.

by the way, thank you for following up.


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## Aalelan (Apr 30, 2008)

loogielv,

I like your design and I have to agree with the others, if you use plywood may as well go at least 8ft if you have room for it..

I have been having the battle on glass myself, as my setup will be 48" deep also. I have still not made the last decision on it yet. I have two people that can get me the glass i need in 1/2" plate or tempered.. but I would like to go 3/4 plate just to be on the safe side. I'm going to keep an eye on your thread and watch your progress.

I see TFGs point on tempered glass, and my thinking is do I want a tank to do a critical fail and have the glass shatter into little bits, or do I want it to just crack and leak.. But then I think what if it does not just crack and there is a critical failure and it throws glass spears at anyone in front of the tank i.e. little ones

Check out my project link in my sig, its been a very slow work in progress. In fact I need to post on it today too


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

THe thing with tempered glass exploding with pressure behind it is exatly why I didn't want it here. I've got four kids, and even though we have a no throwing rule in the house I know there's the occasional metal trasctor or truck that flies through the air. If one of those metal corners on one of those toys knicks a 6'x3' piece of glass with 1000 gallons of water pressure behind it.... Well you know the rest... Also, glass from sliding doors is tempered safety glass not designed to hold pressure. While it breaks my heart to see those huge panes of glass make their way to the dumpster on my jobsites I know it just won't work... The fun part is breaking those panes in the dumpster with my nail set and hammer :lol:

As for UGJ's. I'm more than completely sold on them. And if used in conjunction with a spray bar the ditrius doesn't float around for days... Minutes mabey, but not not days. When I jet the sand in my three display tanks I get to see everything in action. I can actually see the current in the tank take the poo poo away and down the drain, and within a few hours or sometimes even just an hour the water is crystal clear!


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## CHBGator (Oct 5, 2006)

AFAIK Most aquariums use Tempered Glass for the Bottoms because it does hold up to constant pressure and the occasional falling rock normal unlike Plate glass. Check out these Videos. the 1st vid is of a 10 G with 1/4" tempered bottom. The Second looks like it might be 1/2" tempered. The 3rd is actually pretty cool video that tests Tempered glass and also shows that the Tempered glass has been able to withstand up to 24,000 psi, and annealed glass which s stronger than plate breaks at 6,000 psi


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## parkayandbutter (Jan 15, 2008)




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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

good links Gator. It led me to some more where it really shows the strength of tempered.


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## CHBGator (Oct 5, 2006)

parkayandbutter said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lK_B_nhRVU


Thats Plate glass for ya.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Wow ... I didn't really believe the whole 'throwing shards of glass' line until that video, now I can at least imagine it. This calls for a letter to Mythbusters!!!!!


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

parkayandbutter said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lK_B_nhRVU


:lol:

tough guy gon' work out on video..
SMASH

"MOMMA!!! MOMMA! I'M SORRY"


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Interesting videos. I would still never use tempered for the front pane of glass on a huge tank. Never.


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## CHBGator (Oct 5, 2006)

My front panes been up for a year no problems. Its also been smacked pretty good by a big flat rock I dropped in the tank that glided from the back to the front and hit the glass. If I had used plate it probably would have chipped the glass pretty good if not broken it. I have kids too but I'd rather they got hit with small glass cubes, water and fish than sharp shards of glass.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I have several tanks with tempered glass. I have no problem with it, stronger, seems less likely to scratch. If it breaks you have a mess, but much less likely to be mixed with blood. I have been right there when a huge pleco broke the untempered front glass of a 120 gallon plywood tank, and there was nothing in particular useful about the amount of time I might have had to take action compared to tempered. And if you don't happen to be right there watching, the untempered glass does not even have that so-called advantage.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

What I'm worried about is hundreds upon hundreds of gallons instantly rushing out of a tank and taking everything with it, including one of my kids. I break tempered glass with a small nail set all the time to make room in the dumpsters on jobsites. It doesn't take much effort. For that reason I still would never recomend tempered glass, because all it takes it once, and when tanks with plate glass break it's not like giant shards of glass go flying through the air slicing things in half.

This was a brick to the back of a 265:

When he got home there was still eight inches of water left in the tank and he was able to save his high dollar fish and live rock. Imagine if it were tempered.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... hlight=265


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