# I am one confused aquarist! I could use some help!



## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

Well, some stuff has changed in my life (pregnancy/marriage/new job), and I am reducing the number of tanks that I can have now. I have limited myself to a 10 gallon shrimp tank (mostly for food for my cichlids) and a 75 gallon planted tank.

Here's my problem, I have too many fish, and I don't have a clue what to do with all of them :/ 
-5 Stendker Discus
-1 Crenicichla Marmorata

The pike has the 75 gallon to himself now, and the Discus are in another tank. If I could put them together, I would! But I'm sure one large pike and 5 Discus would not do well together in a 75 gallon.

Option 1: On one hand, I have my Pike. This fish is really friendly! He's gets huge, and would make an awesome watch dog for our new apartment  jk  Around here Pike Cichlids are rare, so the fact that I found a Marm is even rarer! I love this little guy and his friendly disposition!

Option 2: On the other hand, I have my Discus. These little guys I have had since they were 2". They are kinda shy, but getting more aggressive as they are starting to want to breed. They look just amazing when they get huge, and they seem to love the plants I give them. Also, I could put a nice schooling fish in with the discus as well, and that would look awesome!

I really don't know what I want right now :/ Maybe you guys could talk some sense into me! Please vote!


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Well of course it's a matter of your preference but you asked for a vote so I vote Discus.


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## Rocksor (May 12, 2012)

option 1: because it is rare and has personality. Last thing you want to do is sell a rare fish and not see it again for years to come.


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## halffrozen (Sep 24, 2011)

I love discus, that's not to say Pikes are great... but Discus are kind of like.. my "dream" fish.

haha


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I voted for the pike, just because I've seen way too many discus in my life, so a little variety would be nice


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I'd try the mix. If it does not work out, then have this discussion. That said, I have never kept discus, but the pikes I have had were never killers. They usually oriented around some type of cave or structure.


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

Rocksor said:


> option 1: because it is rare and has personality. Last thing you want to do is sell a rare fish and not see it again for years to come.


 Ya, definitely. Good thoughts!


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

halffrozen said:


> I love discus, that's not to say Pikes are great... but Discus are kind of like.. my "dream" fish.
> 
> haha


I noticed, I commented on your new 75 gallon video on youtube! Haha. I saw all those Angels you


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

BelieveInBlue said:


> I voted for the pike, just because I've seen way too many discus in my life, so a little variety would be nice


Ya, you bring up a great point! Just the lack of tankmates is going to be a little boring for just a little while :/


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

ahud said:


> I'd try the mix. If it does not work out, then have this discussion. That said, I have never kept discus, but the pikes I have had were never killers. They usually oriented around some type of cave or structure.


Ah, you think it would be worth a shot? As far as water parameters go, I'm fine. I'm really just concerned with aggression.

I've kept 3 types of fish with my Pike. A Cory (I couldn't catch), some Rainbowfish, and a baby Oscar that I rescued and rehomed. The cory cat, he tried swallowing whole, even though it barely fit in his mouth. He's nipped at all the rainbowfish's fins, and does chase them randomly. The baby Oscar I put in the tank with him had some good fin nips, but the aggression seemed to be evenly distributed between them. All these fish were the same size or smaller than the pike, so I think it was a mix between aggression and predatory behaviors.

With that being said, do you think it would be worth it to try the Discus? They are around 4", and the Pike is around 2.5". I could try the mix, but at the moment, I am usually gone from my current house from about 6AM to 10:30PM (only for 2 more weeks). If the Pike did start to beat up on the Discus, I'm afraid, I would get there too late if he killed one of them.

Sorry for the long reply, but these fish are important to me!


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

scarhbar said:


> With that being said, do you think it would be worth it to try the Discus?


If it were some kind of a dwarf pike......maybe. But a marmorata is a lugabris-type. Same juvie pattern as a 'venny'. My experience with these kinds is with Crenicichla sp. "venuzuela' and I certainly do not see them as a suitable tankmate for discus :lol: They get BIG 14"+. They are boisterous, and yes they can be aggressive. In a 75 gal., eventually those discus are going to get in the way.....they have to stay clear of it's swimming space!

When i had a large 'venny', it was boss over aggressive CA, oscars , ect. Everything moves aside, when it swims to stay out of it's path. As a boss, it is more laid back then aggressive CA.....but it certainly does assert it's dominance at times, and is potentially deadly in one strike. When my brother housed one with male trimac, they both claimed 1/2 the tank, fought and absolutely pounded on each other until he eventually had to put a devider in the tank.

IMO, even the saxatilis-types i have had in the past, would be too rough and aggressive to house with discus.


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

Rocksor said:


> option 1: because it is rare and has personality. Last thing you want to do is sell a rare fish and not see it again for years to come.


Definitely the Pike!


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## halffrozen (Sep 24, 2011)

Not to follow the crowd now, but if you aren't wanting to have immaculate water(not that you don't want that for any fish.. lol) and keep up with its chemistry so much. Maybe pikes would be a better option.. haha

As BiB said, not something you see alot.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I'd still try the mix lol, but maybe you should not. At 2.5" I can't see him doing much damage, but it is only a temporary solution.

With that said, I think you will get bored with the single pike faster than the discus. I kept a single for about 2 months, then I started mixing with various tanks to see how it worked out. Mine was a sax though, so not as large.


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

halffrozen said:


> Not to follow the crowd now, but if you aren't wanting to have immaculate water(not that you don't want that for any fish.. lol) and keep up with its chemistry so much. Maybe pikes would be a better option.. haha
> 
> As BiB said, not something you see alot.


Ya, that is a good point too. I am blessed with slightly acidic soft water, but the changes sometimes could be a killer. Thank you!


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

ahud said:


> I'd still try the mix lol, but maybe you should not. At 2.5" I can't see him doing much damage, but it is only a temporary solution.
> 
> With that said, I think you will get bored with the single pike faster than the discus. I kept a single for about 2 months, then I started mixing with various tanks to see how it worked out. Mine was a sax though, so not as large.


Ya? It's hard to try mixes with limited tank size :/

Could you think of any possible other fish that could live with a Marm in that space? I have a feeling my Rainbowfish may become a nice snack for the pike later on


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## Carpe_Diem (Oct 16, 2012)

Discus all the way.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

scarhbar said:


> Could you think of any possible other fish that could live with a Marm in that space?


Long term in 75 gal., not much! If you witness aggression at 2.5"........what do you think the fish is going to be like when it gets 14"+ in only 75 gal.?

Of course every species ofpike is different.......I know the lugabris -type i had (venny) is not considered to be one of the more aggressive of these kinds.

angelfish would be a better choice IMo, then discus. Confident , cocky and not easily stressed by tankmates, likes discus can be. And suffecient girth, even at small size to prevent being swallowed.

Giant danios....get the largest and they wont become food for some time. Though pikes do grow very fast.

Convicts could work.....though my venny cleaned up on all my adult female cons. Adult females i had would have been a little smaller then this:









But not too far off this size, 4" or so.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Wow, those are some voracious pikes! Looks like your only options for the pike is as a wetpet in a 75g. If BC's pike was taking out cons, then I doubt much else stands a chance. But we are talking about a predatory fish here, so I guess its safe to assume once it gets large anything that will fit in its mouth won't work. And by the adult size...a lot will fit.

I only have experience with the smaller ones, but one of my favorite tanks was a con pair and a sax pike. Was a great time watching the parents fend off the pike.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

ahud said:


> but one of my favorite tanks was a con pair and a sax pike. Was a great time watching the parents fend off the pike.


So how many years was this set up. What species of pike. Letus see some pics, video and dates.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Hmm, it was set up for around 6 months. I was basically switching fish in and out of a 6 foot tank, trying different things. No pictures or video of the setup, I rarely have pictures since the only camera is a iphone! The male con was around 5" and the female around 3.5". The pike was around 5-6". Tank size was 72"x18"x16".

I doubt he can try something similar with his pike being such a larger species.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Forgot to add, all I ever figured out was that the pike was some type of saxatilis.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

ahud said:


> some type of saxatilis.


So based on 6 months with a saxatilis type......you figure a lugabris-type is worth a try with discus in a 75 gal.! :lol: Cons are VERY tough compared to discus
and a 125 is significantly bigger then a 75. At 5-6" a saxtilis type is 1/2 grown---they get 8-12". A lugabris -type is a different beast all together!

Yes, like yourself I do not know specifically what Cr. marmorato is like. I can only extrapolate on what is often considered, a somewhat less agreessive for a lugabris-type...the very closely related 'venny'. Owned a female for over 5 years...and my brother had a male for many years. Not an unaggressive fish, by any standard, other then compred to the very most aggressive cichlids!

I'm also one that has experimented, having kept both discus and angelfish ....with some of the most aggressive cichlids. Big difference between an angelfish and discus, IMO. Had discus survive for around 1 year in an aggressive tank...but never did well. Had angelfish thrive and do well for over 5 years with aggressive CA/SA and africans; and many times since for signicant periods of time. The point being, discus can often be stressed easily.....better choose tankmates wisely, or know what you are doing!!

There is no mention of upgrading to a much bigger tank in this thread.....and even if ther was, many hundrdes of gallons, I still doubt a lugabris-type is a good choice for a discus tankmate.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Some out of focus pics from way back. Pic from 1977, Juvie 'venny' on the bottom middle. Juvie port acara on top of the pike to the right, FM to the left (what i beleive to be a jewl to the far left of the FM). Male RD on the very top in the middle and old female texas in the back on the top right corner:










A very out of focus pic from 1979. Same female 'venny" as in first pic. Chocalate to the right, severum right behind pike to the left, blue gourami to the left of sev, and OB Labeotropheus fuelborni female on the bottome:http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z116/Bern-C/PikebluegouramisevchocandOBzebra.jpg I beleive the very large 5" blue gourami did eventually end up in the belly of the pike! Brought her to a fish show in 1980 and she won 3rd place in the a cichlid class that includedd ALL cichlids except those from the African rift lakes.

Just a few pics and video to show that i have kept angelfish and aggressive CA, in morerecent years (2010-2011):

















http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z116/Bern-C/?action=view&current=046.mp4


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I did not know the adult size of the pike. if yours was eating cons then I have to agree that is not a wise mix. I was just saying that it is really fun to mix pikes with pairs, where as I always got bored quickly with just a single pike. So if I was the OP, I'd stick with the discus. At least then you get breeding, where as with the pike there will not be much going on.

Thanks for posting man! I'll have to try angels on in my next crazy setup. I have been a lot more conservative lately, but sometimes its fun to experiment.


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