# High pH plants?



## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I have an african tank with a sump/refugium. My pH is at 8.0 - 8.2

I would like to plant the refugium to help with nitrates. I bought some bacopa monnieri and put it in the refugium, hoping that it was resilient enough to adjust to the pH, but the next day I had a heater mishap that all but cooked the plant. Its still alive, but everything that was above water died, and some parts under water are starting to die off. So now I'm not sure if whats killing it is the after shock from the heat or the high pH.

I still have room for more plants and may need to replace the bacopa anyways. Any suggestions for fast growing low tech plants that I can keep in my high pH?

I liked the bacopa because it grows out of the water, which is good since my refugium is only about 8" deep. It also grows quickly, is available locally, and is actually attractive. So it seemed to be the perfect match, except that its pH compatsbility is said to be no higher than 7.0.

Also, on a side note. The light I'm using is just something I picked up from HomeDepot. It's a T8 labeled as being for aquariums and plants. Should this be ok? I leave it on for about 17 hours a day.

Thanks


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## markiecork (Apr 23, 2010)

Artificial plants will never rot or undergo natural biological changes, so they won't foul your aquarium water. They offer long-lasting beauty with minimal effort. lightweight fabric or plastic varieties boast attention to detail and realism, making it difficult for admirers to distinguish them from the real thing.You have more choices as far as colors and sizes if you go with decorations.


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## firetiger (Mar 3, 2010)

markiecork said:


> Artificial plants will never rot or undergo natural biological changes, so they won't foul your aquarium water. They offer long-lasting beauty with minimal effort. lightweight fabric or plastic varieties boast attention to detail and realism, making it difficult for admirers to distinguish them from the real thing.You have more choices as far as colors and sizes if you go with decorations.


wow! you missed the boat a little bit here my friend. He is trying to plant a refugium to help remove Nitrate. Show me a artificial plant that removes nitrate and I'll kiss you right on the lips.


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## LSBoost (Jan 21, 2010)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

I say boooo to plastic plants. The real thing or nothing at all. :thumb:

Most plant prefer neutral to slightly acidic water and cooler temps, but there are exceptions. I'll let you do the research. Here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/

I think those t8 plant/aquarium bulb work great for low-med light plants, but it depends on the watts and size of the refugium. There is such a thing as too much light. 17 hours is kinda crazy., especially if your plants haven't even established themselves. Plants need darkness too. The more light you offer the more CO2 your plants will require.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I ended up scraping the idea of using aquatic plants to control nitrate. I'm now working on setting up an aquaponics system with terrestrial plants. They are much more efficient and eventually I will be able to grow veggies from my fish waste. I just need to find a way to remove chlorine and possibly chloramine without using aquarium dechlorinators, which shouldn't be consumed.


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## Dook (May 13, 2009)

tokyo said:


> I ended up scraping the idea of using aquatic plants to control nitrate. I'm now working on setting up an aquaponics system with terrestrial plants. They are much more efficient and eventually I will be able to grow veggies from my fish waste. I just need to find a way to remove chlorine and possibly chloramine without using aquarium dechlorinators, which shouldn't be consumed.


guys who have an auto water change system have something in place for just that... I believe it utilizes carbon, but I could be wrong.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I would love to find out more about that. I've been toying with the idea of auto-water changes too.


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## Dook (May 13, 2009)

Here is a quick, easy way. It's not what I was talking about, but it'll work.

http://www.tricker.com/prod-p-chlorineremover


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

thanks for the link. I'm going to have to see if anyone has these locally. This is exactly wat I've been looking for, but the filters I found a HD only removed chlorine taste and odor, so I hwasn't sure if that would be good enough.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you are thinking about an auto water changer that would work without dechlor, don't forget the chloramines have to be removed as well.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I know, the chloramine is the hard part. Chlorine will just evaporate.

Why would I be able to do an auto water changer without removing chlorine?


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## Dook (May 13, 2009)

yeah, my local fish store has a thing you hook up to a water system and it completely conditions the water, but for the life of me, I can't find it online to put a link up for you.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I'll ask around at some different LFSs. Does anyone know if these types of filters have any warnings on them like "Do Not Use On Food Fish"?


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## UFFDA (Apr 9, 2010)

Duckweed works solidly, requires little light and most places give it away...

I have read that the best are mangroves but I don't see that in a sump...

Hornwort also works well and can be mixed with duckweed.

That said a planted sump would need to be larger then the tank it is cleaning to handle 90% plus of the fish waste.

I still like the idea thought to remove phosphates and other items in your water.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

UFFDA said:


> Duckweed works solidly, requires little light and most places give it away...
> 
> I have read that the best are mangroves but I don't see that in a sump...
> 
> ...


I'm not going to be using aquatic plants. I'm going to be setting up an aquaponics system that will use terrestrial plants to remove the nitrates and phosphates. They are much more efficient and won't require large tanks to hold them.

You can buy mangrove seeds on ebay. As long as you keep them trimmed they will stay manageable. They are one of the most efficient plants you can use for this from what I've reard. There are a few different types, I think black mangroves are the best to use, but red work well too.

Duckweed is sometimes used in large aquaponics systems as a naturally grown fish food for edible stock like tilapia and perch. Although I wouldn't use it as the main diet for my cichlids.


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## UFFDA (Apr 9, 2010)

wow very nice, I would love to see the tank since that seems like a huge endeavor, I was thinking far more small scale.

And yes for mangroves it goes black then red since my condo complex uses them in our ponds to keep the water clear of heavy algae.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I'm just doing a small scale aquaponics system for a 55g tank along with a couple 20g fry tanks. When I get my own house in a couple years I'll start looking into a larger system. I might even try to raise edible fish. I do love trout and they are native here.


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## psychedelic_samurai (Aug 20, 2010)

I would love to hear an update on your project, I have been contemplating the exact same thing. Pictures? Details?

So both duckweed and mangroves will thrive in PH of 8+?

I have a 90 gallon that I want to do this for, I've been thinking of building a grow box with several layers, using an overflow from the tank over to the top grow box layer that would trickle down each layer into a lower collection bin where it would be filtered and pumped using my canister filter back to my African Cichlid tank.

I recommend watching a film called "Aquaponics Made Easy" by this Australian dude, it will help you understand the basic concept. Although he is using it to grow vegtables at a PH between 6.0 - 6.5 with food fish that can handle these conditions. So finding the best plants that thrive in high PH is key for using this with most cichlids.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I ended up scrapping the project to allow room for a 75g instead. I feel like to do this with high pH fish you will have to compromise too much on either end(plants or fish) to make it really worth while.

I wouldn't use an aquaponics system just to remove nitrates, although that was my original plan. I would try an "algae filter" instead if you just want to remove nitrates. It takes up alot less space and is supposed to work great

I still plan on setting up an aquaponics system with edible fish when I get a house. I'm pretty excited about it, but it will be a couple years until I get a house and probably a couple more years until I can start the aquaponics project.


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## psychedelic_samurai (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm looking to do this not just to remove nitrates, but to also experiment with the aquaponics. I would choose to compromise on the plant side. Here are some Alkaline tolerant plants I found...

*Plants that Indicate the Soil Might Be Alkaline*
Chickweed 
Spotted Spurge 
Queen Anne's Lace 
Goosefoot 
Chicory

*Alkaline Tolerant Plants*
Boxelder Acer negundo 
Japanese Barberry Berberis
Hackberry Celtis
Russian Olive Eleagnus
Sargent Crabapple Malus
Mockorange Philadelphus
Locusts Robinia
Bridalwreath Spirea 'Van Houtii'
Arrowwood Viburnum Viburnum

For just removing nitrates, I heard that a filtermedia called "Matrix" can house the anarobic bacteria that convert nitrates into nitrogen gas. Not sure if this is true.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm late to this subject but reading through the list above has brought up a big question. Are you planning this as an indoor project or outdoor pond type setup? Some of those plants strike me as way too big to grow inside.


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## psychedelic_samurai (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm thinking indoor using LED grow lights.

Any plants that grow too big should be able to be stunted from full growth, just keep trimming it... not sure if you can "bonsai" with aquaponics, maybe if you trim the roots?

I'm still at the research stage of this, so I have more questions than answers, but I'd really like to pull this off.


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## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn (Dec 26, 2005)

psychedelic_samurai said:


> I'm thinking indoor using LED grow lights.
> 
> Any plants that grow too big should be able to be stunted from full growth, just keep trimming it... not sure if you can "bonsai" with aquaponics, maybe if you trim the roots?
> 
> I'm still at the research stage of this, so I have more questions than answers, but I'd really like to pull this off.


plants utilize 2 main parts of the spectrum, between 420and 450nm(blue) and 640-660nm (red), the blue is easily achieved for plants (white LED are based on blue LEDs,) high performance red LEDs are much harder to find, because there hasn't been as much demand for them. most red LEDs are in the low 600nm region, and they aren't as efficient.


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

i found a cool plant site, do da do da. it has very coll plants come check it out.

http://www.aleyagarden.com/aqpltuse.html

oh and alot of the mangroves are east african

please do reaserch on plants BEFORE u buy.


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

oh, and what r those orange balls they use 4 subsrate in a aquaponics system?


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

tokyo, do u have a picture window?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I'm not 100% on what a picture window is, but I have a large window about 5'x3.5' with another window on either side, so a ton of light comes through.

Those orange balls are called LECA, I use hydroton which is a brand of LECA.


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