# Rare Species for Breeding?



## tycoonbob (Feb 19, 2012)

I am looking to breed an uncommon/rare species of African Cichlids (Malawi, Tanganyika, or Victorian), but I'm not sure what to decide on. I have access to just about anything I want to get, so availability shouldn't be a problem. What are some cool uncommon/rare species or something you don't see everyday? I am planning to get a breeding group to house in a 55 or 75 gallon tank, with a pair of 20 gallons for grow out, etc.

I have been thinking about Afra or Saulosi, but those are somewhat common. Ideas?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you can access it...it may not be rare. Saulosi are in demand because they are in short supply...but that might not last long.

You did not mention selling them...marketability could be a factor in what you choose.

If you just want a cool fish what about one of these:
Pseudotropheus sp. "Williamsi North" 
Pseudotropheus minutus
Haplochromis sp. "Kenya gold" 
Neochromis omnicaeruleus (Ruti)


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## tycoonbob (Feb 19, 2012)

I do some web design and technical work for a Cichlid distributor/breeder, and I will be breeding to sell through them. They are also how I will be getting whatever I decide on. Even though they can get something "rare" for me, I still want to breed them for easy availability.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Most cichlids are pretty easy to breed so once they are discovered they can be spread throughout the hobby relatively quickly. The reason why most cichlids are rare or uncommon in the hobby is because of lack of demand. Some of the more common fish in the hobby are rarely collected or occur in small numbers in their natural habitat. Yellow labs weren't collected for many years but can virtually be found in any store. If you want to breed to sell or make money stick with yellow labs or the saulosi. If you want to breed something rare there are many Victorians or non rift lake species like Benitochromis sp., Myaka myaka or Madgascan species like Pytochromis sp. If you want to go ultra rare try something like Iranocichla hormuzensis.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Keep in mind that the rarest fish tend to be uncolorful and unpopular with hobbyists (which is why they are rare). You would be more successful with a prolific, middle of the road type fish like Saulosi, Demasoni, or even Yellow Labs. These fish have both males and females that are colorful and at a young age.

I would avoid Afra as only the males have any real color and they don't show it until they are grown up. As young fish they aren't all that marketable.

Andy


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

There are A LOT of species of cichlids in lake malawi. Probably only about 5% of them are "common" (meaning can be found in a pet store in a medium-large city) and the rest range from uncommon (need to mail-order), to rarely imported, to never before imported into the united states. It's hard to suggest something without seeing a list of what they have available. You can probably ask this distributor what their most in-demand african cichlids are.

Are you looking to breed a single species or might you want to keep and breed 2-3 species in the 55-75 gallon tank?


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## tycoonbob (Feb 19, 2012)

I was only planning to breed one species in the 55-75g, and would keep some cleaners in there as well, but that would be about it.

I'm not looking for the most popular fish that are in high demand, since I will only have 3-4 females (ideally). Let's assume I can get any fish I wanted (yeah, I went there), and go from there. I currently have 9 Demasoni in my 125g show tank, with another 11 on the way, so I will be breeding those unintentionally and keeping what I can. The company I am working with breed about 20 or so species in their fish house, and import the rest. Currently they are breeding:
Llwanda Red Tops
Lethinrops sp. "Red Caps"
Red Top Ndumbi
Blue Gold Peacocks
Red Top Dwarf Afra
Cynotilapia afra "Mara"
Cynotilapia Afra "Cobue"
Taiwanee Reef
Lemon Jakes
Ngara Flametail
Blue Ahli
Gold Head
Tropheus sp. "Ikola"
Lemon Cichlid
German Red
Flameback
Phenochilus
Frontisa
Daffodil Brichardi
Dragon's Blood
Red Empress
Demasoni
Imperial Tigress
Sunshine Peacock
Bi-Color 500

I am looking for something other than whats listed, and not something common like Yellow Labs, Ps. socolofi, Boreyli, Rusties, Acei, etc. I'm not looking to make much money, but to conserve a species (which is why I was thinking Saulosi) or make something that is desired but not too available, more available. Regarding Afras, I don't mind that they don't color until they grow up, that's not a problem.

Any other ideas?


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

If you are looking at conservation, you might look at the C.A.R.E.S Priority List as those fish are most in need of dedicated tank space. There are many species of cichlids (as well as others) on their lists and you will have fun researching which you think would be the "one" for you.

C.A.R.E.S Preservation Program
http://www.carespreservation.com/introduction.html

C.A.R.E.S Priority List
http://www.carespreservation.com/priority_list.html


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Depending on the species, you'll probably want more than 4 females in a 4' tank.


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## tycoonbob (Feb 19, 2012)

Whatever male to female ratio I need is fine, but my point was that I don't plan to have multiple breeding groups or more than 1 male.

I have been looking through the C.A.R.E.S. list, but not too intensively. Thank you for the links; I will spend some time looking through these at work tomorrow.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

Ps. Saulosi seems like an obvious choice to me,the C.A.R.E.S list has them listed as endagered. PS. Demasoni as Vulnerable so those would be another choice,one you already have stocked. In my area Demasoni ,and Saulosi are both virtually impossible to find outside of online vendors. I noticed Crytocara Moori is listed as vulnerable as well. those are the ones that just happened to catch my eye as species I would personally keep. There does seem to be a fair share of cichlids on that list. It's really sad.


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## tycoonbob (Feb 19, 2012)

master chi said:


> Ps. Saulosi seems like an obvious choice to me,the C.A.R.E.S list has them listed as endagered. PS. Demasoni as Vulnerable so those would be another choice,one you already have stocked. In my area Demasoni ,and Saulosi are both virtually impossible to find outside of online vendors. I noticed Crytocara Moori is listed as vulnerable as well. those are the ones that just happened to catch my eye as species I would personally keep. There does seem to be a fair share of cichlids on that list. It's really sad.


Yes, it is sad. I do have Dems, and have more on the way so I am sure they will breed. Ps. demasoni are my favorite Cichlid species, so I definitely plan to breed those as they happen. The 55-75 gallon is planned to be a species only (minus cleaners) tank, and I am leaning heavily toward Saulosi. I have always liked them (almost as much as dems, but you can't really mix those two species), and have had a male and female in the past, but I'm just trying to weigh all of my options to see if there is anything else I should be considering. Conservation is important to me, but I don't want to do it JUST as a hobby, if you know what I mean.


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

cichlid-gal said:


> If you are looking at conservation, you might look at the C.A.R.E.S Priority List as those fish are most in need of dedicated tank space. There are many species of cichlids (as well as others) on their lists and you will have fun researching which you think would be the "one" for you.
> 
> C.A.R.E.S Preservation Program
> http://www.carespreservation.com/introduction.html
> ...


+1 :thumb:

If it was my tank, I'd heavily lean towards the Victorians or some of the rare Tangs.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You also want to consider the grow out time involved, before you can move them to the vendor.

Do you have access to any wild caughts? Considering your location, you might also considering making the trip up to Ohio for the OCA in the fall...You can find all kinds of hard to find species there.


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## tycoonbob (Feb 19, 2012)

Yeah, I have 2 20g for grow out right now, but plan to get a 29 or 40 to add to that. Throw a shelf in the garage, and done.

I have heard of the OCA, buts way up in Cleveland, which is a good little hike. I'm not sure what kind of access I have to wild caughts though.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

The ACA convention is coming to Louisville in 2014. That will be a great time to pick up rare fish right in your own backyard!

Andy


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## 7mm-08 (Jan 12, 2012)

Narwhal72 said:


> The ACA convention is coming to Louisville in 2014. That will be a great time to pick up rare fish right in your own backyard!
> 
> Andy


That's good to know. That'll give me time to save some $$$ and get another tank or two....or three lol.


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## AlphaWild (Apr 9, 2009)

There are so many "geek fish" cichlid keepers in the Cinci-Louisville area that you could find just about anything you wanted! But to balance that out with market desirability is a guessing game. Popularity ebbs and flows on an annual basis with some fish. Our club auctions see 100 bags of yellow labs going a dime-a-dozen one time, and then 2 bags selling at high-end retail prices 6 months later. 2 years ago I paid full retail for a Victorian that no one had in the tristate area, and only one online vendor advertised. Now, every online retailer has them (at half what I paid), and several local hobbyists have them breeding. If your goal is to be profitable, I would stick with proven long-term sellers as opposed to rare. But if I were trying to impress my geek friends AND sell fish, I think I would go for a lesser-known Cyprichromis strain, especially since you have a professional to do your shipping for you. Many Cyp keepers are too afraid to try shipping them.


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## tycoonbob (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm not looking for the top seller around here, since I don't plan to breed a whole lot. I'm not looking to make a lot of money either, if any (as long as I don't loose money). I'm more interested in introducing a less well known or endangered species to this area.

I am looking into the Cyprichromis species, which are new to me. Some are really pretty!


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## Ryan82 (Aug 3, 2011)

Tycoonbob,

In the list of species that your company carries, you listed Cyno Afra Mara. Can you pm me with the website to this vendor, because I have been looking for that type, and it is somewhat rare. The females of that afra are purple and more attractive than most afra females. My avatar pic is of the Mara male that I have know.


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## tycoonbob (Feb 19, 2012)

Ryan82 said:


> Tycoonbob,
> 
> In the list of species that your company carries, you listed Cyno Afra Mara. Can you pm me with the website to this vendor, because I have been looking for that type, and it is somewhat rare. The females of that afra are purple and more attractive than most afra females. My avatar pic is of the Mara male that I have know.


PM sent.

As far as a species, I still haven't decided. I'm in no hurry though, since I don't even have a 55g tank yet, let alone it ready to go.

I am leaning toward Saulosi or some sort of Cyprichromis species. Any other suggestions?


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