# What kind of Cichlid is this?



## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

Please help? I can not remember what the guy at our local fish store called this guy when we bought him. I assume it's a male, but have no idea. He is pretty mild in temperment except for when it comes to my Electric Yellow. He chases him relentlessly until the yellow turns black and hides in the corner of the tank. I have also seen the unidentified cichlid do the shake dance in front of the Electric Yellow quite a few times, but I am pretty sure the Yellow is a male?Here "he" is with my asian algae eater. I will post a photo.


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

Here is a photo of the guy in question.


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## Nina_b (Jan 3, 2011)

That's a yellow lab alright. Probably a male, jusdging by behaviour, and probably either poorly bred or a hybrid, judging by the stripes.

Can the shaking be agression?

Are you dead sure the otehr yellow lab is a male? This sounds a lot like courtship.


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

I'll post a pic of my Yellow lab, maybe someone can tell for sure if it is a male or female. We have 14 other cichlids in the 55gal tank and this hybrid only goes after the yellow lab. Although it never harms it, just keeps it confined to a small corner. If ones male and ones female, should I find some more females to stop the aggression or get rid of the hybrid? Also, we had a dark blue peacock with white spots that looked like stars. Two days ago about six of my biggest fish ganged up on him and beat him to death. My husband caught them in the act, but we were to late to save him. His fins were fine, and he wasn't missing any scales. Could they have just stressed him to death? He had been in the tank for almost a month with no problems and was fine the day before? Thank you for the help!


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## Nina_b (Jan 3, 2011)

Peacocks don't generally do well with mbuna, I've heard. Yep, they can very well have 'stressed him to death', although the actual cause of disease will be something like a bacterial infection or even internal injuries.

About that hybrid... um. Don't let it breed. If you get more females, well, it will breed, creating a horde of stripey brown yellow lab X things. Agressive yellow lab X things, as you've seen. Not good for the hobby, methinks.
Not sure what to do with him, though. Take him to LFS and get a proper yellow lab? Keeping Mbuna in pairs of two is usually a bad idea anyway.


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## Nina_b (Jan 3, 2011)

Judging from your picture that looks rather like a female. It's hard to say with labs they are literally spawning, but less black on the fins than I'd expect on a male. Egg spots don't help much, by and large.


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

Nina_b said:


> Judging from your picture that looks rather like a female. It's hard to say with labs they are literally spawning, but less black on the fins than I'd expect on a male. Egg spots don't help much, by and large.


Neither does black on the fins, especially with hybrids.

That is most definitely not a pure yellow lab. The aggression is a large reason why we frown on hybrids.

If a fish is being cornered in a tank, it will soon be beaten and/or dead.


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

I have moved my lab into a small tank with a huge comet goldfish. He/She seems much happier at the moment and is not bothering the goldfish. I do not want fry from the hybrid anyhow. He was much prettier when we bought him and although healthy, he is not the most attractive fish anymore. I will probably attempt to take him back to the fish store so I can put my lab back in the community tank. I have about a 50/50 mix of peacocks and mbuna and they do well together. I try to buy only males because I don't want fry, but even the best fish stores can not assure the sex of the fish I buy. Is 15 cichlids too many for a 55 gal? My biggest fish is an albino red zebra, 4in. Planning to upgrade to a 75gal in about two weeks. Thank again for all the info.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

azador said:


> , but even the best fish stores can not assure the sex of the fish I buy. Is 15 cichlids too many for a 55 gal? My biggest fish is an albino red zebra, 4in. Planning to upgrade to a 75gal in about two weeks. Thank again for all the info.


Yes a good fish shop can vent Malawi cichlids you buy and sell adults and near adults as sexed individuals. And also sell you what you pay for rather than sell you stuff from the hybrid breeders. The prob is finding a fish shop that gives good advice and sells good Malawi Mbuna. :wink: Good luck in your search. Keep looking I guess. :wink:

15 Malawi Mbuna cichlids like real yellow labs and other peaceful small Mbuna is not too much for a 55g hybrids tend to grow bigger but still not a major problem, keeping stuff like goldfish in with em is though.

All the best James


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

Thanks, I guess I just need to find a better cichlid supplier. The goldfish with the Lab is only temporary, until we take back the hybrid. All of my fish have been bought as juveniles so that probably explains why no one could positively identify the sex. I have tried to vent them, but just can't tell the difference. My fish probably aren't big enough yet. At least I found out what the unidentified one was.


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

Just throwin it out there...

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=824

Not sure how common they are though. They don't always have to be hybrids... if you look closely at thd pic in the OP, you can see a hint of black in the tail, something not found in labs, even poorly bred or hybrid ones. The black matches the petro tho.


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

If there was another photo to confirm, I would say that's actually pretty likely... But there's more black on the pelvics of the OP's fish, and the body of it is more elongated and less stocky. Maybe it's just young?


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## Nina_b (Jan 3, 2011)

There seems to be no black on the op's fish's tail, though. Also, OP's fishy has no black spot on his gill. I hope for their sake it is that fishy, though


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

Here are some better quality photos. Sometimes he is bluish, and at other times it's silver and black?
http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m56 ... tos035.jpg
http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m56 ... tos027.jpg
http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m56 ... tos024.png
http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m56 ... tos014.jpg


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

azador said:


> Here are some better quality photos. Sometimes he is bluish, and at other times it's silver and black?


what the...  wow!

Now thats something I haven't seen before. Let me do some googling. Not sure what you have there. If its a hybrid, I couldn't begin to speculate what cross would have created that.


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## Nina_b (Jan 3, 2011)

it's pretty 

I take back my certainty that that's a lab X though. Now I just don't know


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

dielikemoviestars said:


> Neither does black on the fins, especially with hybrids.
> 
> That is most definitely not a pure yellow lab. The aggression is a large reason why we frown on hybrids.
> 
> If a fish is being cornered in a tank, it will soon be beaten and/or dead.


He surely is a pure yellow lab. He was bought from a reputable fish store, the owner breeds some of the fish himself and he always has a tank of only pure Labidochromis caeruleus. He was a juvenile when we bought him (about 3/4", but is now close to 3"). We bought two at the time and one was almost all white/pastel yellow. I believe it was a female, but our blue female crayfish trapped her in her cave with her a couple months ago and ate her.

I'm thinking we should take some photo's of the unknown fish to the same guy we bought him from and he could probably give us the right answer. I put the Lab back in the big tank today and he is now being harrassed by my acei and kenyi, the unknown guy is leaving him alone for now. I rearranged some things and the Lab seems to have found a good hiding spot where the others can't get to him. Thanks to everyone for all the helpful info.  I am still a novice with the cichlids, but learning fast.


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

I think dielike was referring to the unknown fish not being a pure yellow lab. I didn't think there was ever a question about your known lab pic being pure :thumb:

By the way, I google searched for petrotilapia pics and didn't find anything that looked like the fish you posted, but I strongly feel like your fish is some kind of young petrotilapia variant - either a pure species I haven't found yet, or a hybrid of some kind. Many petrotilapia's show the black band on the dorsal fin and black on the lower fins and tail (if you look very closely at the top and bottom of the tail in the picture you originally posted, you can make out the beginnings of black markings. Its possible the tail will blacken up more at times as he matures or feels more dominant. Something to keep an eye on.

The only "mumbo yellow" picture I have found is the one in the profile here. I was looking for other mumbo yellow pics to see if they ever color up more besides the all yellow, but I didn't find any.


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

Thanks Rhinox, I'll keep an eye on him and see if he changes anymore. He is about 3" now, half that size when we bought him. Even if he is a hybrid he is still healthy and otherwise mellow tempered. Now that the Lab has a good hidey hole I think we'll keep Mr.X, whatever he may be.


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

I was referring to the one that clearly is not a YL  The one that looks like a YL - I agree, that's a pure (and really nice) YL.

Whatever that other guy is, I agree that he's a really neat looking fish.


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

Thank you, sorry for the mix up. I am pretty sure I have a tank full of males so I am not to worried about anyone breeding. They all do the shake dance, but I'm thinking maybe it's a dominance thing? I don't mind buying a hybrid if I know that's what it is, but it is super annoying to buy something that is being labeled as a certain pure species, only to find that it is a hybrid. Just bought a "Flameback", guy said he was rare an hard to find. He was super expensive (only 1.5"). He probably is a kyoga flameback, but he might be a hybrid, hard to tell when their juveniles? My sore spot is how much we spent on him, because I just found kyoga flamebacks online for $8, and they don't appear to be rare. :? Lesson learned there!


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I wonder if that could be a red zebra male (Blue) and yellow lab cross...just thinking out loud.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

You know not ruling out hybrid but it is kind of like many of the Tropheops sp. (widemouth ect.)
Prob is there are so many, no idea which species or type.
http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=2292
http://www.malawi-dream.info/Mbunas.htm

bit like
http://www.malawi-dream.info/Tropheops_tropheops.htm
and quite a few others

All the best James


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

I do see the resemblence to the Tropheops family. There are so many it would be a daunting task indeed to find the exact match. I am having doubts about him being a hybrid because I have been sent so many links that have fish that do closely resemble him. Being a cichlid, it's hard to identify by coloration alone. When he is stressed he is all silver with only the black vertical bars.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

azador said:


> I have been sent so many links that have fish that do closely resemble him. Being a cichlid, it's hard to identify by coloration alone.


For sure but then from LFSs some Mbuna hybrids are more common than wild types. On probability I would still guess hybrid and even if a genuine wild type my guess is you will not be able to Id him with any confidence and it is kind of the hard price for buying poorly Ided fish. No worries we have all been through this more than once.  Just kind of sorry I can not give you the happy answer, yep I have that fish it is X Genus Y species Z location and very very valuable. :thumb: Chance of that from a unidentified Mbuna from your LFS is about the same as winning the lottery. :wink:

All the best James


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## AC (Jul 26, 2010)

24Tropheus said:


> You know not ruling out hybrid but it is kind of like many of the Tropheops sp. (widemouth ect.)
> Prob is there are so many, no idea which species or type.
> http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=2292
> http://www.malawi-dream.info/Mbunas.htm
> ...


I agree.

Not sure how old it is but the blue may be a start of radical color change.


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## etcbrown (Nov 10, 2007)

It's a hybrid, but one of the more interesting ones to be sure. Typically you get the brownish/yellow with many hybrids but the incandescent blue is a nice touch. Kinda reminds me of Melanochromis joanjohnsonae male in transition.....*.it is not* but it kinda reminds of that look.

As always, make sure they never get sold.


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

I took Mr. Unknown to the LFS and they couldn't I.D. him either. They were of mind that he was a lab or tropheus hybrid. We decided to give him to the fish store, he was too aggressive for my tank. My tank has a much mellower feel to it now and my Yellow Lab is merrily swimming around in the front of the tank like he used to :fish: Happy ending for all.


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## AC (Jul 26, 2010)

I saw that in a male I have right before he went into a very radical color change.


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

lab x socolofi??


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

Honestly, I really never found out. He was pretty when he was relaxed, but turned an ugly brownish yellow color when stressed. Once my male red top albino zebra mated with my female red zebra, Mr. X turned very aggressive towards all the other fish in the tank. He almost killed two in a three day period and started cornering my Lab again. Hopefully he will find a tank better fitted to him. I think he wanted to be alpha male and my albino currently holds that position.


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## etcbrown (Nov 10, 2007)

azador said:


> Honestly, I really never found out. He was pretty when he was relaxed, but turned an ugly brownish yellow color when stressed. Once my male red top albino zebra mated with my female red zebra, Mr. X turned very aggressive towards all the other fish in the tank. He almost killed two in a three day period and started cornering my Lab again. Hopefully he will find a tank better fitted to him. I think he wanted to be alpha male and my albino currently holds that position.


And yet knowing this and that it was most probably a hybrid; you still took it to a store and gave/traded it to them so they could resell it. :-?


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

I'm sorry but I am not going to kill a fish just because I don't know his parentage :roll: . Should mutt dogs be put to sleep? They are a good LFS and suspecting he was a hybrid he was put with other hybrids. Some people do not mind buying hybrids and as long as their not being mass bred and sold as pure strains, then I see no problem. It's not as if this fish is going to be shipped back to Africa and released in their lakes to sully the pure strains. I also do not have the funds to buy another tank for one fish! I informed the store that he was aggressive towards my fish, so it's not as if they didn't know what they were taking on, and I made no money or trade; just wanted him to have another chance. I seriously doubt he will be bred.


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## Chunkanese (Feb 4, 2011)

Cool lookin fish. Why don't you just keep it? Just because it may be a hybrid? I think their interesting personally. One of a kind. Just try not to breed it that's all.


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

I would have kept him, but he was becoming very aggressive. I think he was fighting for the role of dominant male in my tank, so he was keeping all the other fish in hiding and constantly nipping at their fins. I didn't want to have breeding fish, but I now know that my red zebra is a female and probably my cobalt, and one of my OB peacocks. I bought them when they were juveniles and I couldn't tell the difference. Now my red zebra is holding, she bred with my albino red top. So the hybrid would have proabably tried to breed as well. I don't mind hybrids either, some are really beautiful, I think I might actually have a couple more in my tank, but they are sub-dominant males and leave the females alone. I just didn't want the aggression.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

azador said:


> They are a good LFS and suspecting he was a hybrid he was put with other hybrids. Some people do not mind buying hybrids and as long as their not being mass bred and sold as pure strains, then I see no problem.


Do good LFSs sell hybrids? For sure many LFSs sell the mass bred guys but usually without latin names so are easy to avoid if you want to.
For sure I would kind of think this way if more shops would only label em up right.
Some folk just want a cheap fish and as long as it is not missold where is the problem?
Kind of looking forward to the label on the tank though though.

"Mixed Malawi cichlids, mostly unidentifiable hybrids." special 10 for a dollar :wink:

Prob being cheaky but kind of equels "Euro bred Mbuna" on a LFS tank here.  
Just wish more shops would say and label em up as mostly hybrid to be fully honest. :thumb:

All the best James


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

Actually he was put in a tank with other hybrids, they are sold for less than the pure strains, but it is made known to the buyer that they are hybrids. Even a small, pure yellow lab is $10 @ this store. They don't like the idea of people flushing healthy fish down the toilet, so they take fish that other stores won't, even if it means the fish ends up in their personal tanks. I would still consider them a good LFS, especially when compared to our alternatives; Walmart, Petsmart, ect... where unfortuantely you do see the "Mixed African cichlids" label. There are plenty of LFS around here that do not label the hybrids, hence how I bought this guy in the first place. The tank was labled with latin names, so I assumed he was what was written on the tank. I should have taken the time to ask which one he was out of the 4 listed names, my hubby just liked his colors and wasn't concerned with his species name at the time. I think we paid $13 for him :roll: , so lesson learned. I always write down the name of the fish now and google it before I buy it. I was told my OB peacock would turn blue, purple, and white, but she has stayed orange and black blotched. She never "colored up" as promised, I now know that OB peacocks are hybrids as well. I do like the ones that are blue and purple and have since found and bought one. But I knew what he was when I bought him  .


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## azador (Jan 27, 2011)

OK, so I found the cichlid in question  ! I actually found my reciept for him while cleaning my car. When I googled the name I found a picture that looks exactly like him. He is not a hybrid :thumb:. Now nobody need worry about more little hybrids. I am a little sorry to have to have gotten rid of him, but he was very aggressive. He is a Melanochromis-Brevis


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