# Fine Tuning my DiY Sump **warning lots of large pictures**



## Murky (Jun 13, 2007)

So to start things off lets post some pics...

Here is filling up my 75g tank testing out the stand I built. 









so I followed one of the articles for the skimmer-less overflow in the library. I used a slightly smaller 'bulkhead' which I'm starting to wonder about now

bottom piece 









top piece









rubber tub gasket I bought 2 and used both









I used a 1-1/2" hole-saw to cut through a large size lee's specimen container









then I used a sanding spindle in a drill press to widen the hole just enough to slip the conduit male end through 









inserted gaskets and starting putting together the 'bulkhead' from pvc electrical conduit
if you are looking at home depot this will be in the electrical area, not plumbing









the rest of this setup is not completed, I still have to finish off various aspects but I put enough of it together to start testing it out.

my pump finally came today it's a Mag7









return pipe coming into tank.. needs a spray-bar or something to finish off









top view of tank with return and siphon tubes at other end









overflow box


















plumbing underneath. you'll notice a shutoff valve that redirects water into the sump container.
this is to control how much flow my pump actually sends to the tank. I have to say I'm not entirely happy with the way it works.. seems too hard to dial in. and the longer pipe at the right side of the pic will eventually be taken out and connected to the filtration box. that isn't in place yet









Used an egg-crate piece to help mark my media trays









fairly uniform holes this way 









top drawer, I used LOTS of small holes to attempt to really distribute the water evenly









second drawer used a bit bigger holes figured water was already spread out at that point 









third drawer I figured it was just dumping into the sump at that point so...









while I was drilling the holes in the drawers the cat thought the box part looked like a nice place to settle in... I thought it was funny 









so after I got it all up and running I noticed I didn't have near enough flow down the overflow and If I were to let my pump run full bore I would overfill my tank to the point of a flood.

When I dial back the pump to the point it doesn't look like it will overflow. the overall water moving through the system looks pretty pathetic. I know I recall another post with the same problem.

I'm wondering what the best thing to modify is to get more flow.


----------



## knotty dreadlocks (Oct 31, 2008)

since i cant tell you anyting about sumps just thought id mention the setup looks real good.


----------



## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Overall..pretty sweet :thumb: 
My guess ,on the flow from you siphon, you still have air in the tubes. Putting air line in the tubes and sucking out the air is a pia(imho)..I would drill the tubes, top of the rear elbow, put in hose barbs, short hose piece with air line check valves..makes it alot easier to get all the air out.
I got to really hate those pvc ball valves, hard to turn, always a little too much one way or the other. Gate valves turn smoothly, a big plus for small adjustments.
Keep us informed on your progress.


----------



## zugbug (Dec 12, 2005)

Couple of things> I built the same set up for my 135g and heres what I found.
I would buy some clear U-tubes instead of the PVC pipe you have, they work better and you can see if you have any bubbles. I started with 2 tubes in the box and didn't have enough flow so I added a 3rd which worked good for my return pump. I would not drill holes in the tubes, to get my siphon started I put a piece of air tubing into the tube all the way to the highest part and use a 60ml syring to pull the air out. Adding holes in the tubes in my opinion adds the potential of sucking air into the tubes and loosing suction...which is the worst possible scenario in this type of overlow.
Just experiment with the number of U-tubes in the box and the diameter of the u-tubes in the box..I even experimented with some old HOB filter intakes that were smaller in diameter than my U-tubes.

One last thing. What size is the overflow pipe into your sump? It looks like 1". 1 1/2' would be better.


----------



## Murky (Jun 13, 2007)

Yea clear pipes for the siphon sounds like a good idea.. and the drain pipe is 1-1/4" the return is 1" I also noticed the shorter the standpipe the faster it flowed, which now makes a lot of sense. 
I just have to tune things so I don't have too much water in my sump if the power goes out.
thx for replies


----------



## Doc_Polit (Jul 22, 2003)

Hey Murky,

Very cool project overall. It is nice to see someone document the use of the skimmerless overflow in such detail (other than the originator, of course). :thumb:

I've gotta second Kaiser's comment regarding the use of a PVC gate valve. They are a little pricey but you will notice a world of difference in your fine tuning.

Great job......please continue with the details and pics. opcorn:


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

My first thought was air in the U-Tubes like KaiserSousay suggested.Clear ones will definately make the difference in "seeing" whats going on.
Nice Jobe on the set-up!


----------



## willny1 (Nov 17, 2008)

Air in overflow suggestions.


----------



## Murky (Jun 13, 2007)

well I just filled the tank up that is why there are so many bubbles gasing off. I could not find any clear tubing around town from places that I could think of to go. So i bought some under-gravel lift tubes at a pet store and filled them with sand and bent them into 'U' shapes on my kitchen stove. used 3 tubes this time and I can pretty much full throttle my Mag-7 pump. Mega Flow this time.


----------



## madmax666 (Sep 11, 2008)

way to use your brainpower! haha. have you had the guggle problem at all??


----------



## Murky (Jun 13, 2007)

It has a slight siphoning sound, the loudest part of the system is where the drain dumps into the sump, because I haven't installed the filter box yet. I do plan on installing a gurgle buster and get everything as quiet as possible.


----------



## mok3t (Nov 28, 2008)

HOw far into the tank do your siphon tubes go? what are you using to stop them sucking fish up? and what media are you using in the sump?


----------



## Murky (Jun 13, 2007)

Right now I only have the tubes going down about 4 inches. with this design you can put the tubes however far down as you want and it wont cause any problems.
Believe it or not there is hardly any suction at the 3 tubes inside the tank.. each tube by itself is a fairly weak siphon. but all 3 together feed the drain pretty well. I plan on putting a cage around the U-tube inlets inside the tank. or put individual 'screeners' on each tube. I am more apt to go with a cage around the tubes because with this design, getting the tubes clogged up with something is the worst case scenario. because if your drain gets clogged all the water from your sump will overflow the edges of your tank till it runs dry and then you hope the thermo protection on your pump works well or you will come home to a crispy smelling pump. I haven't installed the media filter box as of yet, however, I plan on using either potscrubbers or something similar for media. my first tray is lined with polyfill to catch all the crud with no bypass. once I finish off everything I'll post some more pics


----------



## bell (Dec 12, 2005)

the only thing you may want to watch is if bubbles accumulate in the top of the siphon tubes, there needs to be a high enough flow through the tubes to keep this from happening, my last sump when i tried 3 tubes the water moved to "slow" through them and using 2 really increased the volume going through and solved the problem......the bubbles would accumulate over days so it wasn't something you'd see immediately.


----------



## bell (Dec 12, 2005)

also.....if the power ever goes out you WILL lose siphon if there is no in tank chamber for the u-tubes as the tank will drain through the u-tubes and into the sump, when the water level gets to the bottom of the tube the siphon will break, also if the sump capacity isn't as much as where the bottom level of the u-tube is it could overflow the sump......
so when the power comes back on and the pump starts it'll overflow out of the top of the tank......if you posted that you were aware of this i missed it, i just see a very concerning problem and you're not around.

my suggestion is to do a test "power outage" and be ready to yank the tubes if the sump gets too full or you lose siphon.....but be prepared in whatever way you see fit


----------



## bell (Dec 12, 2005)

ok i just read through you whole design/posts to make sure i was seeing correctly......
and my above 2 posts are spot on.
your sump design is perfect as is your chamber behind the tank (except for what i stated below), you need to address is the in tank chamber, without one you WILL have a problem, and it'll happen when you aren't around (it always does).

you need to have a chamber for the ends of the u-tubes inside the tank, this chamber needs to be able to have the same "power off" water level as the rear chamber as that's where it'll level off to with no flow when the power goes out.

also, the drain tube in the rear chamber needs to be shortened at least another inch, this is why your flow is limited as the tube needs to be a bit below the operating water level in the tank but above the bottom of the u-tube, it is this point where you are losing flow
let me find my old thread on the pvc overflows i built, i spent about a week dialing them in and understanding the concept.


----------



## bell (Dec 12, 2005)

4th post lol im sorry but i need to correct myself...your tank will only drain to the level of the height of the drain tube in the rear chamber...but that is the area where your flow is being limitted, i will edit my above posts when i get home later to not cause any more confusion...i suck lol


----------



## zugbug (Dec 12, 2005)

looks good! I think your design is right on and im very impressed with how you bent those tubes :thumb: 
I've got 2 of these on 2 separate tanks and never had a problem with loss of prime or power outages.


----------



## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

Great idea on using the sand to bend the tubes :thumb: Great pics. Are you going with the "Hofer gurgle buster"?


----------



## Murky (Jun 13, 2007)

hehe... I've tested power outages multiple times and everything works flawlessly as is. And actually I have really great flow. when everything is all completed I think I'm going to do a short video demonstrating the flow I'm getting and what happens during a power loss. and I am going to try a gurgle buster that is based off of the Hofer if it's the one I'm thinking of.


----------

