# I have my water tester & results



## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

Before I begin, my tank did not get a cycle...I still have 1 month left in the process more then likely. My bro said that there is a chemical called cycle that can cycle a tank in a day or something and is safe for fish. thoughts?

here are my test results

ammonia .50
nitrate 40 safe
nitrite 10.0 toxic
Hardness very hard
alkalinity 120-180 target range
ph around 7.2-7.6

What do I need to do? It looks like nitrate and ammonia are a problem atm.


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

I prefer BioSpira or Tetra's product (I think it is called SafeStart) to cycle. I use it all the time and just add fish and am fine;


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I am a little confused about your results.

First the ammonia at .50 ppm is not good. AMmonia is the most harmful for the fish. Do you have fish in your tank right now??

If your nitrite is at 10 than that is super super bad.

And then if you have a nitrate of 40ppm. You really shouldnt have those high levels of nitrite or ammonia.

Something is odd. Do you have fish? or are you cycling with pure ammonia??

If you have fish than you need to get some prime or amquel+ and do a large water change.
Also you need to find someones tank that is cycled and get some filter media to add to your tank.

Can you confirm that your test results are right and also give a little more info.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

Yeah there are fish in there atm that I don't want to lose. The readings are right off the bottle. Can I use safestart with fish in it alread?

what is prime or amquel+ and where can I get it? wal-mart?


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

I did not realize you had fish in there. I would first do a 50% water change and then add SafeStart and Prime. I get both at the LFS. I am not sure that Walmart would carry them though.

You could also go to the LFS or even walmart and ask them if you could have some of their old filter media. That will have bacteria in it and can help to get your tank cycled quicker.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Prime and amquel+ help to reduce the levels of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. They also make water safe for fish. If i were you i would

1) do about 40-50% water change using either amquel+ or prime. (no i dont think they have this at wal-mart but not for sure) if you have to buy something just find one that says reduces ammoni and nitrites.

2) make sure you have a good test kit. I like the API freshwater master kit

3) if you cannot find anyone with a cycled tank that is willing to give you some of their filter media then you probably should add a product that is suppose to jumpstart your tank. I have never used any of these so i dont have one to recommend you. The other poster said he has had good results with biospira so maybe you should try this. Keep us updated.

How big is your tank?
How many fish do you have?
How long has it been set up?


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## earth intruder (Oct 14, 2008)

The product Cycle doesn't really work, see if you can find Bio-spira or get filter media from an established tank. Most fish stores are willing to give some filter media from their sumps, if you don't know anyone with an established tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Dr. Tim's One and Only is the new product that replaces Bio Spira. It's the only thing I would use.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

I read the article on the nitrogen cycle so I have an understanding of it. Thank you to the poster that linked it for me the other day.

Ok, I just swapped 30 gallons in a 55 gallon tank.

I put the stress coat+ fish and tap water conditioner made by API in the tank. (it came with the tank) It replaces slime coat, and removes Chlorine, Chloramines and Ammonia in tap water.

Will this have any affect on the Ammonia in the tank or just in the "tap" water I added?

Do I still need to get the amquel+ or prime or something that reduces nitrites and ammonia, even though I added the stress coat stuff?

The test kit I got is from Mardel, it has a 5 in 1 test strip and a ammonia test strip. When do I need to recheck the water?

The LFS might give me a filter if she has the right size. What do I do with it...just put it in my filter spot?

What is filter media from sumps? ...so I don't look like an idiot when I go ask for some lol.

I use 2 penguin 350 filters that has 8 size "C" filters and 4 bio wheels, in a 55 gal tank. Shell type ground layer from a bag that said it was designed specificly for cichlids. I think that is everything I have...besides a thermo and heater.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

SOunds like you are on the right track.

To answer a few of your questions.

Q) Will this have any affect on the Ammonia in the tank or just in the "tap" water I added?

-you should add the amount for how much water is in your tank and not just what you changed. It should help reduce some ammonia that is already in your tank.

Q) Do I still need to get the amquel+ or prime or something that reduces nitrites and ammonia, even though I added the stress coat stuff?

-i would highly recommend getting some prime. It is really good stuff and helps to reduce ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. This will be good once your tank is cycled as well because it can help lower your nitrate levels if they get to high.

Q)The test kit I got is from Mardel, it has a 5 in 1 test strip and a ammonia test strip. When do I need to recheck the water?

-I would use the ones you got up, but eventually switch out to a liquid regents test. You will probably have to test very often. I would test again tonight to see if your water change did anything.

Q)The LFS might give me a filter if she has the right size. What do I do with it...just put it in my filter spot?

-Keep your filters in their that you have. LEt them stay for a while. Dont take them out before your tank is cycled. ANything you get from her just put in the extra space in your filter box.

Q) What is filter media from sumps?

-the material that holds all the good bactria for the tanks. Keeping them cycled. Just take anything you can get. Ask for a small amount of their filter media to aid in you cycling your tank.

Good luck and keep us updated. (sorry if i made a lot of typing or spelling mistakes. typed this really quick)


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

Thank you very much for all the feedback and advice. I did put in the amount equal to the total tank and not just the amount I changed =D I did something right lol. I will check out the fish store tomorrow since it is sunday here, for the prime and filter media.
I will do a water check later tonight and post the results here as well. Any other tips I would LOVE to hear about!


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Just stay positive and try not to get frustrated. Those are the two things that i had to tell myself when i started back into the aquarium hobby. You may have to do extra water changes and monitor the water parameters more than someone who has a cycled tank. THe good news is once your tank is cycled it kind of goes on cruise control. THe fastest way to cycle your tank is by getting some filter media. If the store owner actual has the same type or similar filter as you then try and get that. Offer her a buck or two for the price of a new one if she doesnt give it to you. It will be worth it. If you do get a filter just lay it in your basket and that will speed up everything. Any type of filtermedia you get is good and will help you out. Let us know if you get any media and what type.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

Alright I sure will. Here is the new test results after the water change. It will prob be different tomorrow.

Nitrate 20
Nitrite 3.0 or 5.0 I can't tell
hardness 120
alkinlinity 120
Ph 7.2
Ammonia .50

I added some Stress Zyme biological filteration booster, made by API from wal-mart right before I took these readings.  It is suppose to eliminate toxic ammonia and nitrite, used when setting up or maintaining aquariums.

Why did my ammonia not drop from the water change?


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I am not sure. Seems like your nitrates are good so how could your nitrite level be so high.

How long has your tank been set up? (not sure if you said yet).

I'll stop answering the questions so quick and see what some others have to say.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

I have had fish in it about 2 weeks, real plants maybe 3 weeks. Thats it.


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

I am sure you read this, but there are two sets of bacteria needed for the nitrogen cycle. The first converts ammonia to nitrite, and the second nitrite to nitrate. Each, being less toxic than the previous. So in general when cycling a tank, you see elevated ammonia, which then starts to come down (to zero eventually) as nitrite levels go up. Then after some more time, your nitrite level will start to come down (also eventually to zero) as your nitrate level increases. While plants do decrease nitrates some, water changes are the way to lower nitrates.

I think the fact that your nitrites are up is a good sign that the bacteria which break down ammonia are present and just need a little more time to do their work and lower the ammonia to zero.



GaFishMan1181 said:


> I am not sure. Seems like your nitrates are good so how could your nitrite level be so high.


High nitrites does not mean nitrates will be elevated and in fact, while nitrates of 20 is considered a decently low number in an established aquarium, it is rather high for an uncycled aquarium. The fact that the nitrates are up at 20 could be one of many things. Usually you will not see nitrate increase before ammonia has reached zero, but it is possible that the bacteria are there and starting to convert the nitrite to nitrate. That would be the best possible explanation and would mean in a few days you will be fine. I suspect though that this is not the case and that the nitrate is either in your tap water to begin with, or your test kit which tests nitrates actually tests both nitrates and nitrite combined and so you can get a false positive nitrate test in the presence of nitrites.

In any case, water changes are the most effective and fastest way to decrease both ammonia and nitrites and I would continue to do daily 50% changes until your ammonia and nitrite readings are both zero.

What fish do you have in the tank and how many?


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

Ok I have an answer for the nitrie and nitrate "false" readings. This test kit does test for both so I have to do some math to get the real readings.

The book says to subtract nitrite from the nitrate....that "should" give the correct Nitrate reading.

3.0 or 5.0 minus 20 = -17 or -15 nitrates

How do I have negative nitrates? does that mean I have zero?


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

Well if you subtract the nitrite from the nitrite it would be:

20 minus 5.0 = 15 PPM of nitrate.

I am not sure that is a valid calculation for all tests, but it would make more sense than 20 I guess.... Have you checked your tap water to see if there is any nitrate in it? Mine almost always tests above 10 PPM.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

reg tap water has 0 nitrate and 0 nitrites 6.4 ph

a retest of the tank water just now

20 nitrate
3.0 nitrite
6.4 ph (not sure why diff this time)

everything else was the same except the ph


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

Ammonia can lower pH. This can be a good thing as ammonia is more toxic to fish with increased pH. Whether or not this is a dangerously low pH depends on what fish you have in your tank. If they are from Lake Malawi, it is rather low; however they can probably tolerate it for a while until you get rid of the ammonia. IME mbuna are more resistant to ammonia and will tolerate a lower pH than many peacocks and Haps...

Higher temperatures also increase ammonia toxicity, so you might consider keeping it a little lower than usual for now.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Nitrites are dangerously high even at 3.0. I'd do a 50% water change if you have fish in there. See what the reading is then.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

If I do another 50% water change..won't that mess up the ammonia/nitrites remover I put in the tank tonight and not give it time to treat the water?? It is suppose to be a biological filteration jump start also. I am suppose to put more in weekly for 3 weeks. Then weekly if I want to keep using it from then on. It is saying somthing like 48 hours before I get accurate readings from it etc. Thoughts?

I am going to get the bio media monday, do another water test in the afternoon/evening...then go from there based on everyones consensus. Thank you all for the uber help.

types of fish I have 8 total - 55 gal tank

2 eletric yellows (labs?)
1 Blue zebra
1 colorless peacock
2 some kind of peacock
1 black/white zebra striped fish that gets 12 inches (will be moving to a local resturant with 1k gal tank or the fish store owner)
1 electric blue jack dempsey (I know does not fit with what I have)

I got rid of 2 fish because they were bulling the entire tank (they were a little bigger...all my fish now are really small) Everyone loves everyone for the most part right now.

Sorry I am just now answering what I have in my tank; I did not see that the question was asked.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would not have added that stuff and I don't know anything about it so I can't advise you. Maybe call the manufacturer.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Water changes are the only way you are going to work your way out of this, if you don't pick up some Biospira or some established filter media from someone else's tank. This may mean more than one water change daily.

I would also suggest picking up some Prime for your dechlorinator. It seems more expensive, but actually goes much further than others do, and it will detox that ammonia.

And I agree on minimizing your usage of additives to the water...


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> I would also suggest picking up some Prime for your dechlorinator. It seems more expensive, but actually goes much further than others do, and it will detox that ammonia.


It does go alot further than others. I had three bottles of stuff at one time. THe largest bottle treated only around 200 gallons. My middle sized bottle treated 500 gallons and the prime (the smallest bottle) i had treated 1000 gallons.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

The only thing this area has is the product cycle. As far as filter media goes to sell me from an established tank, nothing. The guy selling the cycle said he uses it for his new tanks and it does the complete cycle in 45 min to a couple hours.

I know someone said it did not work earlier, but that is my only option. I asked about Biospire & prime, both stores did not have it.

The cycle is suppose to be pure bacteria. The store also suggeted ammonia chips to combat the ammonia.

Nitrite 3.0
Nitrate 20
Ammonia .50
Ph 6.4

No changes in water  This is what I am considering. Doing another 50% water change today, adding my declorinator that I have (since I don't have anything else and none carry it where I live). Then adding that cycle stuff. Would the ammonia chips help in this situation? If this does not work then I will be doing water changes dailey.

Thoughts? I am trying to advoid the water changes dailey because of water usage, and I am afraid it might stress the fish out with all the comotion. I will do it though if I have to, to keep the fish alive.


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

This is my understanding of cycle versus biospira:
Both have bacteria to convert ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate.
The bacteria in Biospira actually are able to attach to the gravel and filter media and reproduce
The bacteria in Cycle don't attach or stick around, so you have to add it with every water change.

So Cycle may be a temporary solution, but it may also prevent your tank from forming it's own bacteria and so you may be left with an ammonia/nitrite surge in the future to contend with.

Ammonia chips actually bind the ammonia and therefore take it out of the water. They will work temporarily, but they might prevent you from forming the necessary bacteria and thus end up with a ammonia/nitrite surge in the future as well.

Here is my thought: Why not use both the Cycle and Ammonia chips to hopefully save the fish now. Do water changes as necessary as well (it stresses the fish less than it actually stresses you if you keep the temperature stable and add declorinator). At the same time, order Biospira (or the new name of the product mentioned above in a post) and Prime online. When you get them in the mail, do a large water change and use them. I would continue to check your water parameters frequently (daily) until a few weeks after adding the Biospira to confirm that things are OK in the tank.

BTW, those Mbuna are gonna beat the snot out of that EBJD! While most JDs can hold their own against mbuna, IME electric blues are very shy and nonaggressive in comparison. I have three in with red chromides and the red chromides are 1/2 the size, but as aggressive (and they are not aggressive for cichlids at all.) 
Also, I think you have a Tilapia buttikoferi by your description? (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1442) That fish may even beat up the mbuna... 
I suggest you get rid of the buttikoferi fast if you are not interested in keeping it in the future anyway, and get another tank for the EBJD (well worth keeping and setting up another tank for this fish!)


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

Once I put the biospira and prime in I am good on the water changes right until the normal time? Is prime mostly used for salt water? Should I grab some PH + stuff since it is leveled out at 6.4 and add it once I get the cycle under control?

I have already decided that if anyone messes with my EBJD they will find a trip to another tank fast. The LFS told me that the Tilapia buttikoferi (name is familiar)I have, if he did not fit in, I could bring back. So I will be doing that tomorrow when the onwer is there.

As of right now since I got rid of the 2 larger fish...it is pretty peaceful. Which ones are the mbuna again? The yellows?

I am going to do exactly as you described in your post.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I wouldnt start trying to buffer the PH right now. Get your tank cycled first before you even think about the PH. Also when and if you do mess with the PH dont use chemicals. Try and find some things that naturally raise PH. A stable PH is better than a fluctuating one.

Your mbuna are the yellow labs and the red zebra. I have successful kept yellow labs and peacocks together.

I just thought of something as well. Aquaclear makes a filter insert that has a resin that binds the ammonia and nitrites to it so it will help as well. I would try and pick one of these up and just sit it in your filter media compartment.

Dont worry it will go on cruise control before long.


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

The yellow labs and zebras are both mbuna. Yellow labs can be more docile. As for the EBJD, I hope you notice the aggression in time to remove the aggressor. My experience is that with mbuna (and other fish), there is often a single unwarned attack at night that may be fatal.

I would still check the water daily or every other day after adding the Biospira for a few weeks to make sure things are stable. Biospira used to make both a salt water and fresh water variety. I would not use the one for salt water in a fresh water tank (not sure if it is the same bacteria). They recently stopped making the freshwater one under the name Biospira, but from what I have been told it is now marketted under two different names. The one listed above (Dr. Tims) and Safestart are both successors of Biospira. The original guy who developed BioSpira went off on his own and markets it under Dr. Tims, and the company who sold it as Biospira now markets it as Safestart.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I would imagine that the water fluctuations you are getting with the ammonia, nitrites, etc. that the EBJD will likely succumb before the mbuna get a chance to turn on him. They are very sensitive to water quality.

I can understand your wanting to eliminate the water changes, BA. But the truth of the matter is that your fish are going to suffer if you do, and if you don't lose them now, the damage done to their internal organs by the ammonia and nitrites may shorten their lives considerably and cause you to spend countless dollars on meds in an effort to save them.

Your ph is dangerously low at this point as well, especially so for the fish that you have. You've got to get your other problems addressed before you can even tackle that issue.

Honestly, I would return all these fish to the LFS and start all over.

And check some of the big box chain pet stores for Prime. It's there.


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## webgirl74 (Jan 30, 2009)

How many fish do you have in the tank and how big is the tank? If your latest post with water parameters is correct, I'm surprised your fish aren't showing signs of distress. Your ammonia and nitrites seem to be spiking, which is typical at around week 3 of a cycle, but if you have a lot of fish, this could be upping the levels as well. Even if you do a cycle from scratch with a few fish, you are supposed to keep the bioload very low (1 or 2 small fish) otherwise the water can't handle the waste. The plants should help with the nitrate levels, so maybe that's why they are looking fairly normal. Not sure if big water changes are going to help things right now as the cycle needs to complete. They may bring down your levels temporarily, but the water will still be cycling and so your readings will probably spike again. If your fish have been fine up until now, they will hopefully be OK until things level out.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

Thank you guys. I did find Prime and I bought it along with the cycle. I just did another 20gal water change. I added both prime and cycle to the tank. I think I actually did see the safe start stuff...I wish I had know that was the biospira.

On a good note, I got a filter from an established tank today from a fish store I did not know about. I keep it wet for the ride home, took out 20 gallons, added the cycle and prime, added 20 gallons, then put the filter in (did not rinse or anything). This is where I stand now.

I have a total of 8 fish lots of real plants, I got ride of the red zebra the other day. I keep a really close eye on the EBJD also, but you are right about the 1 night fatal attack possibly happening. I don't know if I would be able to take all the fish back =( I don't know. The jack was from on line so he is stuck; I can't give that fish away as expensive as he was....I gotta keep him alive for sure. What size tank would be good for him and a couple fish that "go along" with him? I don't want to stray from the topic to much, just looking for an est. to get an idea of what I might need later.

ok, now, since I did all this stuff, and got some media with nasty stuff all on it....where do I go from here? Do I still need the safe start? What then?


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

I think you are doing great at this point. Keep checking your water parameters. If the ammonia and nitrite come down to zero, you are great. If they remain high, you need to continue to do your water changes. Use Prime for all your water changes in the future even after the water parameters have normalized. It is a great dechlorinator. Keep us posted with your success (I hope) please!


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## webgirl74 (Jan 30, 2009)

Do you know anyone with an established tank that can take the fish from you temporarily? Or, if there are any fish specialty shops in your area, one might be willing to help you out by taking your fish for now and housing them in one of their tanks. There is a shop here that I buy from that will actually take fish and house them if a person is moving or on an extended vacation, etc. I agree with cichlidaholic, your tank sounds like it's in a bit of chaos right now and you're better off starting over. At the very least, you should probably hold off on adding any more chemicals. Your PH is really low and that drop alone might do some real damage. That being said, I've cycled tanks with dither fish that are far less hardy than cichlids, and I've rarely lost one during the cycling process, so your fish might just pull through. I have several tiger barbs and tetras that I've had for 3 years that I had used for tank cycling and they are all in fine health. Are in my mixed malawi tank and have been growing like weeds.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

Cool guys thank you. I will check the water and stuff and keep doing changes until I am at 0 ;as far as the pet stores go...they would either not have the room because they are all full tank wise...or they would sell them by accident. I am the only person I know in the area that has a tank as well =(

Whew guys without you all I would have prob given up =( thank you all so so much for everything. I will report back in a couple days. Thank you!


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

Like others said, hang in there. I think your test strips are giving you faulty readings. At this point you should not be showing Nitrites and nitrates at the same time. Get an API master freshwater test kit online if you cant get it locally.

To cycle a tank, (feed the bacteria) some amonia has to be present. Your fish provide the amonia but unfortunately it is harmful to them. When I cycled my tank with fish I did a 25-33% water chang everyday to keep the amonia, and later nitrites down. It was taking forever until I added some used media and then that realy moved the process along. All the fish survived and are fine now months later.

....Bill


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

If you cant find any used media, I can Priority mail you some for shipping cost (about $5 i think)

...Bill


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Good to hear you got a filter from the store. IF this came from a tank that is cycled and you did all those changes and are using prime. I think you will be in the clear before you know it. I wouldnt take your fish out or move them. IF they have survived what your tank was when you first started this post then they will be ok now. Just dont let the water parameters raise anymore. Keep us posted!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

> If you cant find any used media, I can Priority mail you some for shipping cost (about $5 i think)


Just curious as to how you would ship it fast enough to keep the bacteria alive? The bacteria dies off quite quickly...



> IF they have survived what your tank was when you first started this post then they will be ok now.


This is not necessarily true. Health issues from exposure to elevated ammonia levels can show up days, weeks, or even months in. And, the exposure can also do long term damage to the internal organs of the fish, shortening their life span considerably.

Hopefully, this won't be the case, but it's far too early to say they are okay!


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

Thanks guys! I did get the media, everything seems to be working good.

Nitrate 20
Nitrite 0
ammonia .50

This 12 hours after the addition of cycle, the filter media, and prime. One of you guys said I need ammonia present, but I think .50 is a little tough. I am gonna give it a little bit more time (tomorrow) and see if anything else has changed...if not then another water change.

I can't figure out why the ammonia is not dropping after all the stuff I have done.


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

That does sounds awsome! Congrats... You survived and your fish survived!

Are you sure the test kit is accurate for the ammonia? Can you take a sample of your water to your LFS? Most will test your water for free and it is a nice double check.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

yes I will get some water to the LFS. Thank you for your help Cichlid Whisper, you were a big part of my success.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

Local store tested my water today, here is what she got.

Ph - 7.4
Ammonia - .5
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10

This was about 3 hours after I tested it at the house. She used chemicals, I used test strips. So my ammonia/nitrite testers seem to be accurate, everything else is iffy.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I would keep up the water changes, then. You don't want to stop until you consistently have a zero ammonia reading. :thumb:


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

alrighty sounds good! Thank you. Do I need to add cycle again with the water change or just the prime.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You can add the Cycle with the water changes.


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## Brother Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

ok, cool! My Ammonia dropped to .25 so its looking realy good for me and my fish!


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