# Shell Choices for N. multifasciatus and A. calvus



## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

Ok, guys (and gals) a question: What shell do you think is the best shell (short of the native choice, Neothauma tanganyicense) for the N. multifasciatus.

Please, I prefer answers from those who actually kept Multis and used real shells. Calvus/Comp owners also can answer as I have Calvus too.

Recently, I have bought a large assortment of marine shells for trials after failing to find a source for the N. tanganyicense shells. Evidently, the source has became inaccessible for some reason (politics, war, transportation lack, collection protection status, or something), so I'm forced to consider an alternative. I've already heard of the use of escargot shells, but it appears that there was a nasty lawsuit over a case of food poisoning recently (from what I understand, it's cuz someone didn't follow instructions and cook thoroughly enough or clean the shells enough). Needless to say, there's now a shortage of escargot, as everyone who was offering them has since pulled out of the market in Hawai'i. Officially, they cited slow sales as reasons for bailing. That may be true, considering the economy, but I don't think it's the ONLY reason.

I've also considered the use of the aquarium snails like Apple or Mystery snails, but noticed that the long term shell longevity seems quite short in the O'ahu water. I was told that the escargot shells seems to suffer this problem too. They tend to get thin and fragile fairly quick. Which makes me want something a bit more substantial so as to last a bit longer, if I'm going to have to spend $ to ship them in. (Shipping to Hawai'i is OUTRAGEOUS!) But at same time I want them to be light enough for the Multis to be able to move them some. I also would like the shells to at least somewhat physically resemble the native N. tanganyicense shells. With the above in mind, my requirements are as follows:

1) must physically resemble the native Neothauma tanganyicense shells..
--- A) Internal resemblance is somewhat more important then external resemblance. 
--- So I will be considering:
------ I) Opening size and shape
------ II) Internal dimensions of the whorl, with particular attention to the rate of shrinkage.
----------- a) prefer 25% or more reduction of whorl cross-section within 180deg.
----------- b) prefer a round or oval overall cross-section shape to whorl and opening.
--- B) External resemblance should be similar in overall shape and form.
------ I) Color of the exterior is not important as long as it's not too distracting.
----------- a) As there will be a coating of algae, exterior color will probably not be too noticeable.
------ II) Overall height to width ratio should be similar
------ III) The sutures between each whorl should be similar.
2) must be robust enough to last a decently long time in Hawai'i's water.
3) must be light enough to allow the Multis to be able to move them around a little.

With the above points in mind, I've hit a few shell resources online and browsed around.

It appears that for the closest overall match seems to be the shells of the Babylonia species. Specifically B. japonica (and similar species) with B. spirata (and similar) coming in second.

An alternative seems to be the various Turbo shells, even though it's a bit more wider aspect ratio than N. tanganyicense. Empirical observation says that both the Multis and Calvus seems to prefer these shells too.

Bursa rana seems sorta ok both inside and outside, even tho the outside is a bit too heavily ornamented for my tastes. Surprisingly, my Multis have not only accepted them but also bred in them. Empirical data overrides theoretical data. With extreme reluctance in my case, as I'm still not exactly aesthetically comfortable with these shells.

I've had looked at Moon shells (Whale/Shark Eyes and various Nautica species) but rejected them due to them being too flattened and due to them being rejected by the Calvus and the male Multis. Maybe too small? Even the female Multis seem to only accept them more as a temporary quick hidey hole away from their primary shell, than anything more serious.

Delphinula looks good if looking only at internal specs, but I had to reject them due to it being too flattened AND looking too different with all those spines. I've attached java moss to the shells and it's still too obviously differently shaped. The same complaints applies to the trocas and trochus. Further, the two troc shells are also too heavy for the Multis to move easily.

Whelks and chanks fails the exterior points with too elongated tip opposite from apex. Murex also have too much spines and other bodywork on the surface. I've noted that field experience has shown that my two Lamprologine species have initially accepted them as useable substitutes. However, the Multis have since abandoned the Murex (too big/heavy?) in favor of turbos and babylonias, while the Calvus has switched from the whelk/chanks (inside too narrow?) for the recently abandoned Murex. This has happened just when the Multis started excavating the sand in preparation for breeding. Already they dug around one of the turbos and a babylonia spirata and sank them into the pits.

Actually, I should separate the Murex from the Whelks and Chanks as the internal cross-section of Murex is round while the others are slits. Which makes me suspect that the Calvus probably would prefer the turbos if a large enough one is available.

Thanks for your experiences...
-Lance

EDIT: I've since confirmed this with a 3" turbo and a 2.25" Calvus. So I'll ditch the Murex along with the Whelk/Chanks. Also, full sized male Calvus may prefer going back to the Murex unless anyone know whether a 4.5" or larger turbo shells does exists? Suspect I ain't gonna like the prices if they DO exist.


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

Ok, also just found references in this forum that suggests Calvus may prefer caves that have narrow slit openings (to match their bodies) that opens up into a roomy cave. Something else to think about and probably may be cheaper than mega-sized turbos since I will be making a styrofoam background for my tank anyway. Perhaps I'll integrate this feature using some of those pre-made caves I found on a website specializing in cichlid breeding implements.

What do ye think?

-Lance


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I offered pre-made caves, shells and rocks to my shellies and calvus. I actually have a variety of pre-made caves intended for a variety of fish and the only pre-made cave I continue to use (the rest are languishing in a closet) are the cigar-shaped ceramic caves. The elongated fish like them (julidochromis, leleupi) and also caudopunctatus and synodontis. The synodontis like them a little TOO much, so I would not use them again in a tank with synodontis. :lol:

The shellies chose the whale-eye shells.

The calvus completely ignored the terra cotta calvus caves and the rocks, but use the tonna shells. I have also noted that the hatcheries I have visited use whelk shells standing on end for calvus.

Hope this helps!


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

DJRansome said:


> I offered pre-made caves, shells and rocks to my shellies and calvus. I actually have a variety of pre-made caves intended for a variety of fish and the only pre-made cave I continue to use (the rest are languishing in a closet) are the cigar-shaped ceramic caves. The elongated fish like them (julidochromis, leleupi) and also caudopunctatus and synodontis. The synodontis like them a little TOO much, so I would not use them again in a tank with synodontis.


Wonder if those cigar ceramic caves will work with the paracyps and leptos in the upper regions... (sorry, thinking ahead to when I get those guys for my Tang community tank, gotta start thinkin about them while I'm designing the background for my tank).



DJRansome said:


> The shellies chose the whale-eye shells.


Really? Wow, interesting, mebbe I better keep the moons on hold. Cuz my Multis appears to ignore them except as a convenient closest bolt-hole if caught too far away from their primary shell-ter.



DJRansome said:


> The calvus completely ignored the terra cotta calvus caves and the rocks, but use the tonna shells. I have also noted that the hatcheries I have visited use whelk shells standing on end for calvus.


Mebbe there's something to those tonnas after all. I must admit I haven't tried them yet (they were not included in the 'random' assortments I've picked up, too fragile for those I guess). Starting to look like I may end up using those whelk/murex after all, as I've still as yet to determine whether there's any real supply of plus-4" turbos out there, while there's lots of 6-7-8" and bigger sizes of the murex/whelks/chank/etc. By any chance you know which whelk they used in the hatcheries?



DJRansome said:


> Hope this helps!


Yes it does help, thanks! This reduces the amount of time & money I'd have to waste. Otherwise, I'd have to buy a little of every likely prospect shell in different sizes and try each with a random sampling of multiple Multis and Calvus. Scientific Method, while thorough, can be quite expensive, eliminating all the loose ends, ya'know?  Not to mention time consuming cuz you'd have to first let the fish get used to the new shells and then over time, observe how they behave around the shells. Plus to determine preferences, would have to have different shells of same size at same time, then change combinations to determine ranks of preferences (if they like A over B, and C over D, AND prefer C over A, then that means preferred ranking is C-A-B, but still need to check D vs B to to determine exactly where D belongs (CABD or CADB). Hmm, it's 330 am, I hope I got the logic of the previous line straight. LOL, I'm sure someone on this fine forum will point it out to me if I'm faulty. :lol:

Mahalo,
-Lance


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## mobafrontlover (May 1, 2011)

I agree whelks or tonna shells for the. Alto and im using whale eyes and japanese land snails for multis they lovem


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

I also have a wide array of shell in my tank and most of the Multies picked the Whales Eye shells, and so far my Calvus have just stuck around the rock pile mostly. I do plan on getting some Tonna shells for them eventually to see if they take to them instead. I was told to put the Tonna shell inside the rock pile so am planning on trying that out when I get them.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I don't think the fish as care as much as we do. People breed multi's in pvc elbows with endcaps. I have always used whale eyes because they are readily avaliable and cheap.

Your water really dissolves the shells that fast? Interesting.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You may find shellies ignoring shells until they are ready to spawn. That's normal.

The cyps do not use any caves at all. At night they rest on ledges on my 3G background. When disturbed they dive behind a rock pile.


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## reflexhunter (Jul 25, 2009)

I use escargot shells for multies,similis,and hecqui,no problems and they seem to really like them.

You can get extra large ones on eBay.

Have seen the man made toaster type caves for calves and comps,going to try some in my 29 since it is in my fish room but want something that looks better in my tank in the living room,right now I have flat rocks stacked up like triangles for them to hide out in,waiting for them to get a little bigger.....lol going to take awhile


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

DJRansome said:


> The cyps do not use any caves at all. At night they rest on ledges on my 3G background. When disturbed they dive behind a rock pile.


Thanks, I was wondering what features to put in my background for the cyps. So ledges and crevices on top and caves and deep fissures for the calvus. And lots of shells in sand for the shellies. Next is to do picture research on how the 'real' Lake Tang looks like underwater. Time to bust out the ol search engines... (cracks fingers)


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

My calvus also like conch shells....


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

mobafrontlover said:
 

> I agree whelks or tonna shells for the. Alto and im using whale eyes and japanese land snails for multis they lovem





xxbenjamminxx said:


> I also have a wide array of shell in my tank and most of the Multies picked the Whales Eye shells, and so far my Calvus have just stuck around the rock pile mostly. I do plan on getting some Tonna shells for them eventually to see if they take to them instead. I was told to put the Tonna shell inside the rock pile so am planning on trying that out when I get them.


Thanks Mobafrontlover and xxbenjamminxx. Looks like it's one of those mileage slightly varies thingy, as both my multis and calvus have ignored the japanese land snails. I have the Japanese land snails, turbos, whale/shark eyes, various whelks and murexes, both Babylonia spirata and japonica and ONE Bursa ranna.

Initially it seemed that the whelks/chanks was popular with the calvus and the male multis. While the female multi chose a small (2") pink murex. Later, after they've settled down in the tank, they changed choices. The male multi moved into a small (2") white murex, while the calvus chose a huge (relatively to the 1.75" fish) 4" pink murex. The female expanded her territory to include a 2" silver mouth turbo and a small 1.5" white chank, both of which were adjacent to the original pink murex. Oh, the male multi also expanded his zone to include an adjacent 2" white chank. It is possible that they're ignoring the other shells like the whale eyes, babylonias and the rest of the turbos cuz they're directly under the fairly strong downflow from the powerfilter. I think I'll move those shells away from the downflow and put river rocks in the downflow area to prevent sand from being blown all over the place. Have a feeling that the fishes don't like strong currents and I suspect the powerfilter may be too strong for this small tank, but am not too worried as this 10 gallon tank is a temporary quarantine tank anyway.

In my other quarantine (a 5 gallon) tank, I have a mated pair of multi and a Congo Black Inkfin calvus. The calvus was forced to hide in the back of the tank behind the sponge filter because the multis had claimed all 3 of the 5 shells in the tank, and buried the other two. The multis in this tank have chosen a Bursa ranna shell, a whale eye and a Babylonia spirata. The buried shell are another whale eye and a Babylonia japonica. These two was on the end of the tank. They dug a huge pit in the center of the tank. Strangely enough, the female took the 3 shells, while the male dug a hole UNDER the sponge filter's base and lived there.



ahud said:


> I don't think the fish as care as much as we do. People breed multi's in pvc elbows with endcaps. I have always used whale eyes because they are readily avaliable and cheap.


Well, not aesthetically, of course. I think they're more concerned with it's suitability for use as a nest and shell-ter. Else I'd think they'd be out with a paintbrush and hammer to do renovations. Seriously, tho. Yes, I've had originally had my multis in pvc elbows, but c'mon, I think even you'd agree that it's quite butt-UGLY and doesn't look all that natural. Maybe in the breeder tank located downstairs, but definitely NOT in my display tank where every visitor will see. Thanks for your Whale Eyes vote.



ahud said:


> Your water really dissolves the shells that fast? Interesting.





reflexhunter said:


> I use escargot shells for multies,similis,and hecqui,no problems and they seem to really like them. You can get extra large ones on eBay.


Well, I personally don't know for myself, as this is the first time I'm using shells of any kind in any of my tanks. BUT, most of the LFS here have either told me that their experience with shells (at least with the apple/mystry/etc. group) is that they get fragile quickly or they don't have any experience at all (or don't notice either way). I've already eliminated escargot shells (as noted in my Original Post) because there's limited availability of them here in Hawaii AND it costs a pretty shekel to ship them to here in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. If I'm going to spend that much to ship shells, I'm gonna maximize my shipping bucks by buying them in bulk. Bulk, my friend, means to me in 100s or gallons lot. Especially since I'm already planning to put in upwards of 50 shells minimum in my tank. It will be nice to keep extras for that inevitable replacement needs in future (without having to pay thru nose for shipping again). Plus, I'm sure if I'm REALLY pressed for $, I could probably craigslist them for other local tang keepers!

Plus, the best I could find on ebay is 76 escargot shells from UK. Like I'm gonna pay international shipping on top of Hawaii shipping! The best US is 36 shells, and shipping is same as if I'd buy 100 sea shells from a wholesaler. I think I'd rather buy the 100 shells from a wholesaler at a cheaper price per shell if I'm going to spend 50$US for shipping. Plus, I don't mind the 50$US minimum purchase prices with the wholesaler. Why? Because for that $50 shipping with wholesaler, I'd be ordering about 200-300 useable shells, plus about 2-3 gallons of very small/tiny shells. The escargot shells, I'd get only 70-something or 30-something shells.

PS: For those wondering, I plan to get the very small/tiny shells as it would be more natural looking to have a variety of sizes of shells from baby sizes to full 'adult' sizes. Having only large shells makes it looks like they appeared out of sand at full size only.



reflexhunter said:


> Have seen the man made toaster type caves for calves and comps,going to try some in my 29 since it is in my fish room but want something that looks better in my tank in the living room,right now I have flat rocks stacked up like triangles for them to hide out in,waiting for them to get a little bigger.....lol going to take awhile


I agree, as my Tang Tank will be a 'public' display tank, I want it to look nice and at least somewhat natural.



Longstocking said:


> My calvus also like conch shells....


Thanks Longstocking for your vote. (And YES, I am tallying them up, hmmm, shouldve use that poll feature for the OP, oh well).

Thanks
-Lance


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