# 125 gallon stocking questions



## SaintPaulCichlids (Jan 13, 2012)

I have a 125 gallon that is cycled and was wondering if this stocking list is okay.

5 Cynotilapia afra (Jalo Reef)
5 Cynotilapia afra (Lupingu)
5 Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow Lab)
5 Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Yellow-tailed Acei)
10 Metriaclima lombardoi (Kenyi)
5 Metriaclima estherae (red zebra)
5 Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty)
5 Metriaclima greshakei (Ice Blue)

Are these gonna be okay together as far as not killing each other.
I don't wanna hear about hybridlizations!!!

Filtrations are:
29gallon Sump with 5 gallons of pot scrubbers.
525 gallon SunSun brand canister.

And 3200 gph wavemaker for water circulations.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

I am not the world's greatest expert on mbuna, but personally I would not combine very mild mannered species with the real bruisers. Don't get me wrong, a 125G is a fantastically sized tank for mbuna, and it's just the tank to try some of the more aggressive types like Kenyi, but I am not sure that I would put some poor Rusties together with them in that war zone. For one tank, I'd go with either all mild mannered, or all aggressive mbuna.

Mbuna kept in decent water conditions will breed, and if you combine the wrong species they will also cross-breed. If you sell any fish from a tank in which cross-breeding could occur, some of these cross-breeds can look like pure strain fish, and pollute the gene pool once other people introduce them into their breeding colonies. In this way a single irresponsible breeder can cast a shadow over the entire hobby. It is not an issue anybody should ignore.


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## Woodworm (Jan 3, 2009)

I had some of these mixed in a 75 for a long time [Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow Lab),Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Yellow-tailed Acei), Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty)] with no real problems, but I listened to people that had a lot more experience then me since it was my first cichlid tank. One of the species of Cynotilapia afra may work but I have no personal experience with them so I am not sure. I do agree with fmueller that if you put both in they have a high chance of cross-breeding. I also agree with him on not including ether the Metriaclima lombardoi (Kenyi) or Metriaclima greshakei (Ice Blue) since they are to aggressive to mix with the other species you have chosen.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

I would have tried a colony of Tropheus. But thats just me


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Fishy_Cichlid said:


> I would have tried a colony of Tropheus.


When it comes to behavior, they are actually very similar to mbuna!


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

This is probably more realistic... I assume you are referring to a 1/4 M-F ratio with the 5 fish?

5 Cynotilapia afra (Jalo Reef)

5 Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow Lab)
5 Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Yellow-tailed Acei)

5 Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty)
5 Metriaclima greshakei (Ice Blue) or Met Estherae (Both will probably cross with the Labs.)


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

cantrell00 said:


> This is probably more realistic... I assume you are referring to a 1/4 M-F ratio with the 5 fish?
> 
> 5 Cynotilapia afra (Jalo Reef)
> 
> ...


I agree with this, except that I would up the numbers to 7 of each, especially if getting juvies. I'm a bit biased because I've had 35 in a 125 since they were juvies, and added 6 syno cats later. Other than my Afra(Jalo Reef as well 1m/4f, lost 2 when they were young), most of my other ratios are not ideal, and even backwards. But I've had no losses from aggression in 2-1/2 years, and they spawn regularly. I attribute a lot of this to them being together as juveniles, and good husbandry.

As far as hybrids go, if you have no plans to sell or distribute fry, then it's a non-issue. Most won't survive when spit in the tank anyway. If you do, then you need to pick your species more wisely. Two Afra species are almost a guarantee to cross.


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## SaintPaulCichlids (Jan 13, 2012)

cantrell00 said:


> This is probably more realistic... I assume you are referring to a 1/4 M-F ratio with the 5 fish?
> 
> 5 Cynotilapia afra (Jalo Reef)
> 
> ...


I like this setup but will take Red Zebra over Ice Blue.
Also I wanna have around 40 fishes so what others would be recommended for a 1M/4F ratio to be around 40s fish.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

SaintPaulCichlids said:


> cantrell00 said:
> 
> 
> > This is probably more realistic... I assume you are referring to a 1/4 M-F ratio with the 5 fish?
> ...


I would increase the number of fish per group (more females) in favor of more groups..

The Red Zebra are a great compliment to the Yellow Labs. It is too bad that they are so prone to cross-breeding..


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## ranchialex (Dec 4, 2011)

Seems rusties and red zebras are a bit redundant, why not skip the zebras due to the cross-breeding with labs issue?

Also, the original list looks great, but maybe demasoni instead of kenyi? I hear demasoni have more intraspecies aggression, so get a dozen, then later yank some males and you may be ok. This is what I'm planning to do if I can locate some demasonis - I presently have very small Kenyi in my (otherwise peaceful) tank but would like to swap them out.

*edit* Oh and just thinking, 45 cichlids is a lot, possibly too many even for a 125. I'm shooting for 30 in my (4.5') 112g.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

ranchialex said:


> Seems rusties and red zebras are a bit redundant, why not skip the zebras due to the cross-breeding with labs issue?
> 
> Also, the original list looks great, but maybe demasoni instead of kenyi? I hear demasoni have more intraspecies aggression, so get a dozen, then later yank some males and you may be ok. This is what I'm planning to do if I can locate some demasonis - I presently have very small Kenyi in my (otherwise peaceful) tank but would like to swap them out.
> 
> *edit* Oh and just thinking, 45 cichlids is a lot, possibly too many even for a 125. I'm shooting for 30 in my (4.5') 112g.


I shudder thinking about pulling demasoni out of a 6 ft tank filled with rocks. If I ever do them again, it will be in a species tank that is small.. 40 breeder or a 55 gallon... Pulling sub-dominant fish from a group demasoni, atleast initially, would occur too much in a tank that size for me.


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## ranchialex (Dec 4, 2011)

Yeah I recently decided to change remove some stock and I had to basically empty the tank decor, catch 5 fish (most of which were under 2" - auratus) and then put it back together. Actually only took an hour on Saturday morning, shouldn't have put it off. Picking out a single specific demasoni even in an empty tank would be challenging, for sure.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

ranchialex said:


> Yeah I recently decided to change remove some stock and I had to basically empty the tank decor, catch 5 fish (most of which were under 2" - auratus) and then put it back together. Actually only took an hour on Saturday morning, shouldn't have put it off. Picking out a single specific demasoni even in an empty tank would be challenging, for sure.


Quick, cunning & elusive doesn't even begin to describe them. They are beautiful fish though. They would be even better if they had the disposition of Acei..


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

I agree that 40 is a lot of mbuna even for a 125G. It might not look much when they are small juvies, but I assume you want to see them grow up. I have not done mbuna in a 125G, but for Tropheus in a tank like that one would aim for a colony of 25-30. I currently have 28 Tropheus Kaiser I in a 125G, and they are doing great. Again, the behavior of Tropheus and mbuna is very similar.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

fmueller said:


> I agree that 40 is a lot of mbuna even for a 125G. It might not look much when they are small juvies, but I assume you want to see them grow up. I have not done mbuna in a 125G, but for Tropheus in a tank like that one would aim for a colony of 25-30. I currently have 28 Tropheus Kaiser I in a 125G, and they are doing great. Again, the behavior of Tropheus and mbuna is very similar.


The 40 doesn't concern me nearly as much as the number of groups. Eight groups of five is a problem. Five groups of eight isn't, assuming you don't have a problem with doing large, weekly water changes and the five groups don't get really large for mbuna.

Example: five groups of Labeotropheus Trewavasae / Fuellborni & Metriaclima would be way too many for sure..


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## sprigsss (Sep 17, 2003)

I have never heard of yellow labs and zebras crossbreeding.

I've had a tank of demasoni, yellow labs, and red zebras for years. I've never witnessed any crossbreeding whatsoever. Never sold fry, but have had fry grow up and have young themselves and all have always bred true.

I just don't think its possible for labs and zebras to crossbreed. Glad I came across this though cause trying to decide between a 135 gallon or 180 gallon. Thinking 135 cause its not so wide and wouldn't take up so much room in my office. Then if I go with the 24x25 I might as well get the 8 footer as well for a little more. So will probably get the 135 or a 240.

Thinking Demasoni, Yellow Lab, Rusties, and Red Zebra and Albino Zebras.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

sprigsss said:


> I just don't think its possible for labs and zebras to crossbreed.


If you put a male of one species mbuna and a bunch of females from another species in the same tank as the only fish, almost any type of mbuna will cross breed - and they really won't care about what you think!

Yellow labs and zebras are notorious for cross-breeding in any type of community setting. I have not observed it myself, but then I've never kept them in the same tank. If yours didn't cross breed you were just plain lucky, which of course is also possible.

Just to stretch the subject of what is and isn't possible, it has been scientifically proven that some mbuna (_Metriaclima sp._ "lanisticola north"), can undergo a complete sex change. In a nutshell, in a tank containing only proven females, breeding activity was observed and fry were collected from holding females, meaning at least one adult proven female had turned into a proven male. If you don't believe me, send me a PM, and I'll look up the paper by Dr Jay Stauffer. Now, a lot of people had previously thought that was not possible


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

fmueller said:


> sprigsss said:
> 
> 
> > I just don't think its possible for labs and zebras to crossbreed.
> ...


CC me also...I have never heard of such. Not doubting you. Just really curious. I guess it would be just as easy to google it. :lol:


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Sorry if I de-railed the thread 

For what it's worth, the sex reversal paper is here.


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