# Tropheus Ikola Dying Mysteriously



## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Hi, I have a 75 gallon that has been set up for about 5 months, and it houses Tropheus Ikola (somewhere around 20), 6 Julidochromis transcriptus, and 4 Synodontis petricola. Since I've gotten the tropheus 5 months ago, they have been mysteriously dying. I started with 16, lost like 5 over a month or two, then got another 12 or so and now have lost 3-4 more since then. I found two dead a week ago, and now have found another dead today.

They are active, have colours, and eat like pigs. I take care to make sure they aren't being overfed, but they're only being fed once a day and I make sure each fish gets a little bit of food. Since setting up the tank, I have never seen any white/stringy feces, or any listless Tropheus. It also might be important to note that the Tropheus are the only fish I have found dead in this tank (knock on wood).

Filter is Fluval Fx6, readings of ammonia/nitrite are 0, nitrate is low, pH is 8, and I also have an airstone on the opposite side of the filter output. I have no idea why they are dying. 25% water changes are done every week, a bit more if a Tropheus has died recently. I also have lots of rocks and caves in the tank for shelter should a fish need it.

Basically, they seem to be dying without showing any signs of illness. Good water test results, tank is being maintained, lots of surface agitation, lots of rocks/caves, and a pH-buffering sand. I have put API General Cure of the correct dosage in the tank when I find dead fish, and that seems to keep them alive for a while until later when I start to find a few dead again. Just put some General Cure in today, so I hope that will help -- but I can't keep putting it in every week. What do I do? Can anybody tell what might be the problem? Thanks.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would look harder for symptoms of bloat as everything else sounds like bloat. But you need to confirm.

In the days before each ones dies...does it stop eating? You basically have to see every fish eat every time you feed...a pain when there are lots and they look alike.

Do any ever lurk under the surface or behind filter intakes or heaters?

Are you able to confirm the reverse of the white thread feces? Thick and food-colored?


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

The feces seems pretty thick and is definitely food-coloured.

In the past I have seen single Tropheus occasionally up in the corners, so I believed that stress was the cause, but I haven't seen one up in the corner before finding a dead fish recently. However, it's worth noting that when I found one dead today, its body was up in the top corner above the filter intake. Does that mean it was pushed up to the corner by stress from aggressive fish, and it died up there before I saw it? It was one of the smaller ones, and it seems like the smaller fish are the ones that have died (they're all around 2" right now); I don't think I've seen any of the bigger ones in a corner, either.

Could it just simply be due to stress caused by aggression? I never saw physical injuries/ailments other than nipped fins. I remember one time I found one that was struggling to stay alive, and then a bigger Tropheus came and went for his dorsal fin, and since he was too weak to swim away, the bigger one bit hard and almost shook him around a bit like a dog. I had to take him out so he could die without further harassment -- nothing I could do to save him at that point. I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of thing went on when I wasn't looking.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

679x said:


> Could it just simply be due to stress caused by aggression?


That is exactly what happens. The fish feels stressed due to chasing. He gives up fighting to claim a good spot among the rocks and lurks under the surface or behind hardware. If this continues, his immune system becomes compromised. Bloat is waiting for this scenario (or other diseases).

Usually you see the lurking first, then the not eating and thread/white feces and then death. And a characteristic of bloat is that it can move through an entire tank...one fish at a time and taking one only every month or so.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

So is there anything I can do about it? I have lots of rockscape but they're usually out in the open. Will it get better over time? I don't want to have to keep adding fish to the colony. It's also pretty discouraging having all these fish die -- occasionally I think about selling them off if I can't keep them alive.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Try taking out the most aggressive ones...one at a time as a boss develops. Maybe you have too many males and they at beating up on the smaller females. You may be able to achieve balance. I have the same type of issues getting a compatible demasoni colony.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

I went through a similar process when I was bound and determined to get a Tropheus tank going. You did not mention what you are feeding them.

Initially, I was feeding my Tropheus NLS cichlid and had suffered the losses.

I mentioned it to my LFS, who advised me to switch to a green (spirulina) flake. We also decided that treating the tank with Metro would be a good start - medicating at 125 is not fun/cheap. Once the medicine regimen was over, on his advice, with the next batch of Tropheus, I switched foods. Did not suffer the same losses, in fact my colony has gone from 23 to over 45 in a couple of years. As the fish have gotten older, I have added some NLS a couple times a week to their diet. I've been on the green flake for the most part with them. The other thing I did was add epsom salt to the water to aid in digestion.

Now, before the NLS fans flame me - I don't think the problem is/was NLS. I think the problem was that I was over feeding them, and their digestive tract could not handle it. It is much more difficult to over feed with flake than pellets. Changing the feeding and adding the epsom salts seemed to do the trick.

678x - totally get the frustration about these fish, hang in there and once things stablize, you will have a great tank full of activity.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Thanks DJRansome and nodima. I don't have anywhere to put an overly-aggressive Tropheus currently. I do have a plastic mesh thing that I was going to make a fry-raising 'box' out of so that if I ever got fry of any of my fish (particularly the Eretmodus cyanostictus that I had wanted to get sometime) I could raise them in there without having to get another tank for 'em. Perhaps I should set it up if I keep seeing fish overly stressed in the corners.

As for the food, I forgot to mention it... I feed them Northfin Veggie pellets and OmegaOne veggie rounds, once a day. In fact, there's a picture of a Tropheus Ikola on the front of the Northfin package (that's the type of Tropheus I have lol). I never really considered the food being the problem -- I thought the food was the correct one for them, and not just because the picture on the package suggests it would be. Do you think this food would be ok for them?

I make sure that each fish gets enough food, since I feed them only once a day. It could be possible that some are getting too MUCH food, although I would expect the bigger ones to be the ones suffering since they're usually the first to eat.

I have put a very small amount of aquarium salt for freshwater in there a few weeks ago, but was scared to put any more because I had read that salt could possibly contribute to bloat.

With all that being said, though, should I be mixing a more veggie food or spirulina with the pellets? I still have a lot of the pellets left to use and I only feed it to that tank. I also don't want to cause any problems by quickly switching from one food to another. What do you suggest I do? Discontinue the pellets for now, or just feed more of a different type of food? Or continue feeding what I currently feed them? Thanks in advance.


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

One thing you did not mention (or I missed it), was the size/age of the fish when you got them. That may or may not help in figuring this out.

I have had tropheus twice in my fish keeping time but have none at present. The first time was 30 Kiriza for two years, the other time 30 Chimba Red for one year. In both cases the fish were about 1.5 inches and not sexed when purchased and in both cases were housed in a 90 gallon by themselves. I got spawns from both groups and never lost an adult from either group, although lost the odd fry.

I did one-third water changes every 10 ten days and fed New Life Spectrum general cichlid formula. I got rid of the first group after two years as I wanted to try something else. The second group was too skittish for some reason so I did not keep them long (one year).

As far as food goes, I was pretty faithful to NLS and still use it, but I started trying NorthFin a year ago for my Tanganyika fish and I think it is good and now use both brands. I do not like flake food. I find it too messy and much goes up the filter and I do not want to turn off filters to feed.

It sound like you are doing what I did so I was maybe just lucky but I cannot tell what the difference is. I see we are both in Canada but maybe our water is quite different? I do not know what else to pin it on.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

I got mine at the same size as yours: 1.5". Not sure how old they were, but that was how big they were. Did you ever lose any while they were growing up? I know you said you never lost any adults, but how about in, say, the first year of having them? That's the stage they're currently in.


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

No, I did not lose any. They were breeding six months after I got them. At that point I considered them adults and they were approaching or just at three inches. It was just a few fry I lost in the first couple of months of their lives. I find that happens with a lot of fry anyways of many African cichlids.


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## judyok (Aug 12, 2014)

I'm going through dosing my Tropheus right now. My 125 sprung a leak and I had to move my colony to a 75 temporarily, but the consequence is I noticed 3 were looking pretty thin (it's taken me 3 weeks to round up another tank). I observed them carefully while they were eating (which is hard when they are all moving around so spastically). All of the fish looked like they were aggressively eating, but one in particular that was very thin was grabbing the food and spitting it out. I've had bloat one other time with another colony and I used clout, it totally turned it around. As others have said it might be also be a hyper aggressive male or two picking off other males by relentlessly pursuing them.


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## judyok (Aug 12, 2014)

I noticed you said you only feed them once a day. Tropheus really do better with 3 or 4 small meals a day or at the very least twice a day. You didn't mention your kh or ph values if those are too low it can be detrimental to the Tropheus.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

My pH is 8, not sure about my kh, but I have a CaribSea sand that is supposed to buffer the water.

From now on, I'm feeding them multiple times a day. That does sound like it'll help. Thanks for your help


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## judyok (Aug 12, 2014)

I noticed on my previous post I incorrectly said kh and ph, I meant kh and gh. It's possible to have a ph of 8, but still have water that is soft. It's a good thing to know those values and there are liquid test available for that. Even with a carribean sea substrate if your introducing softer water each time you do a water change it is a bit of a shock to a sensitive fish like Tropheus. The carribean sea will slowly change those values, but if you can keep those values steady each time you change the water it would be better for the fish. I'm glad to see you'll be increasing their feedings. Increase your feedings slowly like twice a day for a week and then 3 times a day for a week etc. Once you get a routine established like the feeding, maintaining the same water values your fish should do much better.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Thanks for the help, here's to hoping they do well from now on


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