# Shedding Skin



## Brandrcm (Feb 25, 2008)

I have been treating for a parasitic infection of some new fish that I added to the tank and ich has become apparent. I have been treating for 10 days with salt and heat. The temperature has fluctuated from about 86-90 throughout the treatment period due to AC and outside temps. Yesterday I noticed one Acei, pictured below, with what I am guessing to be a bite mark from one of the larger tank mates. The color and scales looked scraped from his head. Today another Acei looks slightly beat up, but again near the top of his head and sides.

My question is does anyone have experience with *salt* or *heat burns*? I am hoping this is just injuries from fighting but I am not sure. None of the other fish in the tank have any injuries of similarity. Unfortunately I have not seen improvement of all infected fish, so the heat will have to continue, I hope that is not what is cuasing them to fight if that's the case. I did do about a 15% water change and added melafix today.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

i would suggest a bigger water change. you do not mention what med you started with for your initial parasite infection, but most treatments include a member of the sodium chloride family, and by adding additional salt, you may have inadvertently passed these particular fish's tolerance. a compromised slime coat, and/or flesh burns, are more severe than a pesky ick bite. keep the temperature high, reduce the salinity with steady water changes, and control the ick infestation by siphoning substrate daily. in a week or so, when your fish appear better, you can slowly reintroduce the salt, if ick is still apparent. meanwhile, if a fish becomes heavily infested with ick, i would suggest to remove it, realizing it is contributing to the parasite reproduction significantly. HTH.


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## Brandrcm (Feb 25, 2008)

So I just did about a 70% water change and added quite a bit of charcoal. This should remove the remaining medication. I used Jungle parasite clear.

I have been watching the fish very close today and I have no clue why they are behaving the way they are. The Acei are actually biting each other, I don't think its a burn of any kind. It may be something with breeding aggression, I am not sure? This is only with the Acei the rest of the fish look fine. The ones with the marks almost turn to the side while a couple of the other fish will be near there bottom side almost nipping. I have also seen the fish who look the worst almost let the others bite them near their head. He just flares up while two others nip at his head and he doesn't even move or flinch. Should I try and separate all of them? Has anyone else seen this behavior?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I can't really see the pics that well.

Is the area on the head cottony or fuzzy in appearance? You may be dealing with Columnaris instead of ich - the increase in temperature would have made it worsen.


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## Brandrcm (Feb 25, 2008)

I'm pretty sure the white areas are from mechanical injury. There could be a chance it was caused by salt and medication combo burn as well. The acei are acting really weird, turning on their sides and others bite at them, near their head and bottom. Not sure what is going on but the water change helped.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I really think you should consider treating them. Water changes are always going to help things, but if this is Columnaris (often initially mistaken for ich), you can easily lose an entire tank to it.

Maracyn and Maracyn II or Kanamycin are good for treating Columnaris.

And, you would want to lower the temp to about 76, as higher temps cause it to spread. (Another reason I'm concerned about you treating the wrong thing initially...)


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## Brandrcm (Feb 25, 2008)

I'll keep that in mind, thanks for your input. Its been about 5 days and still at a high temp, around 86, and it hasn't spread or worsened on any of the fish. Columnaris moves fairly quick, especially at high temperatures, does it not? I'm going to keep a close eye on them and if any worsen I'll definitely treat. Do you think it could be columnaris and not spread or worsened even at a high temperature for this long?


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

okay this may help.. i have been treating for sunken bellies ie. parasites.. i noticed that the jungle brand fizzies .. kinda..burnt up (for lack of a better term) my fish.. peeling scales.. this all has subsided and they are healing.. i did 4 treatments though and maybe the medicine was too (hot) strong?!?! either way it is taking care of itself.. maybe it'll help


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## Brandrcm (Feb 25, 2008)

I sometimes wonder if this wasn't a cause of all this. I had sunken bellies as well and treated with JPC and medicated food. Ich then developed and I raised the temperature and added salt. I did not add carbon or do a significant water change (no more than 15-20%) throughout treatment. I did a large water change and filtered with carbon and nothing has gotten worse, hopefully I'll see some improvement.


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## Brandrcm (Feb 25, 2008)

After watching and examining my fish for a couple hours I am guessing the combination of JPC and salt reduced the slime coat on the fish. This reduction resulted in the "shedding" of their skin, almost a burn. It has not spread since I changed the water Saturday, I am guessing its not bacterial or parasitic, Its been at a high temp, but does leave me open for numerous infections. Any thoughts on my theory?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

It sounds like you are right, especially if there has been no progression since Saturday.

I've never had this happen with JPC, but in conjunction with the salt it may have been more of an irritant.

Melafix will aid them in getting back to normal. The tea tree oil in it works wonders. You can combine that with daily water changes if you want. It won't heal overnight...Give them a week or two.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

Brandrcm said:


> ...Any thoughts on my theory?


 my thought, is that your theory was mine about 9 posts ago. :lol:


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

lloyd said:


> Brandrcm said:
> 
> 
> > ...Any thoughts on my theory?
> ...


lloyd, you make me laugh! :thumb:

I panic and you're my voice of reason.


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## Brandrcm (Feb 25, 2008)

lloyd said:


> Brandrcm said:
> 
> 
> > ...Any thoughts on my theory?
> ...


I didn't word my post clearly, haha.

The "theory" I was attempting to point to was that it was not bacterial or parasitic due to the fact that it has been at a high temp etc and not spread.

I appreciate your help with the diagnosis, I feel you were spot on. :thumb:

Update: The fish are looking better and starting to heal, today is the first day I've seen improvement.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

Brandrcm said:


> I didn't word my post clearly, haha....I appreciate your help with the diagnosis, I feel you were spot on...The fish are looking better and starting to heal, today is the first day I've seen improvement.


 yea, i'm just having fun on ya. :wink: -glad to hear your fish are rebounding, but watch for an ick rebound too.


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