# Creating a Fish Room Need Help



## letstalkfish (Dec 25, 2008)

Okay I have found a place in town 1000 square feet. and was wondering what size tanks should I use. I plan on breeding mostly mbuna and some peacocks/haps but I want to focus on mbuna. What size would be ecominical. I know mbuna can be housed in smaller tanks. I plan on only using single species per tank. Should I make my own stands or just use the metal stands. I need some opinion.


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## letstalkfish (Dec 25, 2008)

would it be more ecominical to have someone come in a build the stands for me. BTW what lighting requirements would I need.


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## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

you won't have a fish room, you'll have a fish building.... :lol:

i really have no experience with this kind of operation, but i think i would go with 55 gallon tanks... seem to be a good minimum tank size for most fish, and it'll give each of the species plenty of room...

as for the stands, i think building them would be your cheapest route, but also the most time consuming... if you have the money, buying some heavy duty metal stands will probably be your quickest solution...

many more will chime in very soon, but i thought i'd share my thoughts...
i just wish i had a room i could convert into a fish room, let alone a 1000 SF building...

post pics and let us know how everything is going.
Good Luck


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## letstalkfish (Dec 25, 2008)

it'll be a long journey since im not rich lol. I thought about using 55 gallons because there so easy to come by I always see people selling 55 gallons. I wonder would it be better to just buy them with metal stands that way I could 55 gal on top and put like two ten gallon tanks on the bottom? Any ideas. I want atleast 30-60 breeding tanks.


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## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

my thoughts would be just to use the 55's... and then you can use mesh over egg crate or something and seperate a compartment for the grow out portion of the 55 too... that way you only need 1 filter, 1 heater, etc... per tank.

but a 55 with 10's on the bottom would work too, just plumb them all together.


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## kerbchek (Apr 1, 2008)

If I'm not mistaken, I think you can usually put two 20 gallon tall tanks on the bottom of a double stacked 55 gallon tank stand. I've thought of that and using the two 20's on the bottom as grow outs. I'd also suggest 55 gallon tanks as they are easy to come by. I like 40 breeders. You could do a combination. I think 29 gallon tanks make nice grow-out tanks.

If it's going to be a slow process since you're saying you don't have tons of money, I'd just start collecting tanks, and build stands out of 2x4's as you go along. As you run across good deals, you can add more racks. You might want a variety of tank sizes since some would require more space than others. If it's going to be mostly mbuna you should be ok with 55's, I'd think, but personally, I think 75 gallon tanks are nice as well.

You could plumb them all together, but since it's good to use sponge filters with fry, and you're wanting to breed, I'd just set up a really large air pump or a blower to PVC pipe around the room and run sponge filters in all the tanks. I run mostly sponge filters, I think they work real well... they just don't always look real attractive.


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## khaki (Jan 12, 2008)

For a fish room, well in your case a fish building. :lol: I would go with 10gallons for new born fry, 20gallons Long for 1 incher, 40gallon breeders for some older fry and 55-60gallon breeder for the breeding colonies. You can also use "dividers" to divide up the 55-60gallon into three section, if you divide them all evenly then each section will have 18.3 gallon for each section or 20gallons each if your doing 60gallons. I would heat the entire building rather than going out and buying a ton of heaters. I would keep all the growout tanks bare bottom and filter it by a sponge filter system (that's the cheapest way IMO). For a sponge filter system you will need airlines and of course an airblower instead of an air pump. You should do research on a sponge filter system if you wanna take that road. For stands, I would prefer building it with wood then you know how much room and space and how long everything should be. Keep us updated and posted. Best of luck to you. :thumb:


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## kerbchek (Apr 1, 2008)

I've even heard that some people believe their blower supplements the heating, or actually does a lot of the heating of their fish room... blowers are noisy but may work in your case. I use a large air pump - it's called an AV-50. I have at least 30 or 40 sponges running off that AV-50... I think it does pretty well and is quiet and only uses 40 watts of electricity...

Now, here's advice I should have followed: Heat the whole room, not rely on individual heaters, it'd be cheaper to heat the whole room, and make sure you have enough electrical outlets and enough large enough breakers to handle the electrical load. Many people (including me) wait until it's cold in the winter and every tank heater is on and the breaker trips before realizing they should have followed that bit of advice they read somewhere on the forums... I can't set up one more tank in my fish room in my opinion because it'd be too taxing on my electrical system... time to upgrade :wink:


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## steve0199us (Oct 7, 2008)

Questions for you guys....

Are you guys filtering sponge only in the tanks? I'm looking to build a mini fish room, but am unsure on filtration for 75gal tanks... Was thinking about 2-3 sponges for each tank... or 1 AC500 and 1 sponge in each...


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## letstalkfish (Dec 25, 2008)

I'll most likely use the av-50 instead of individual filters. If I keep the room heated lets say 75F what would the water temperature be. Would it be ideal to use the installed lights on the ceiling then individual lights. Ill most likely use the metal stands since im not real good at building things. Its gonna be a gradual thing at first. trial and error.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

You might want to go in stages, accumulating some tanks from Criagslist, etc. Then see if you are starting to sell fish, if that works, and it all depends on the local market, your contacts, and the world economic situation. Once you know your market and what you can sell, then tailor your tanks and facility to produce those fish in those numbers.

One cheap way to grow out fry is to use 50 and 100 gallon Rubbermaid 
stock tanks (intended to hold drinking water for horses and cattle). Another is
to get a 4' by 8' sheet of styrofoam insulation, lay it on the floor, build up along the sides with 
sand bags or plastic bags full of dirt and then spread out a pond liner over it.

Be careful about buying metal halide lights and other products from hydroponics suppliers.
Even though they have some products useful for aquariums at lower prices, there can be 
a problem. A lot of them are under surveillance. I knew a couple who rented the basements under a strip of stores and set up a commercial breeding facility, mostly cichlids at first. After the business was going well and they had found the money fish for their market, they started upgrading their equipment and bought a number of metal halide lights to save electricity. That purchase was enough evidence to justify a raid by a drug enforcement agency. They were raided, arrested and jailed and all the power was turned off and all the fish died. Even though no marijuana was found, just buying the lights was enough to take them to trial and convict them.


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## Agnag (Dec 1, 2008)

I suggest you find some local breeders and see how they have their system setup, because it helps to see an actual steup then to read all this stuff we type. Thats what I did. I recently bought a 1/8th blower and I have been collecting fish tanks from criegslist for about 6 months, and I just started building my racks.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Agnag said:


> I suggest you find some local breeders and see how they have their system setup, because it helps to see an actual steup then to read all this stuff we type. Thats what I did. I recently bought a 1/8th blower and I have been collecting fish tanks from criegslist for about 6 months, and I just started building my racks.


Agnag has some good suggestions. One way to see some local breeders setups is to attend fish club board meetings that some clubs hold in members' homes who often have large fish rooms. You can learn a lot. another is to buy stuff from local breeders and pick it up. If you try Aquabid, you can do an advanced search for sellers in your state or city. Aquabid would also be agood method for you to sell fish. You would need to learn about packing and shipping fish, and have a part of your facility set up to do that.


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## kerbchek (Apr 1, 2008)

Depending on how many tanks you plan to set up, they also make AV-60's and I think AV-150's or some significant size larger... I have 30 or so sponges running off the AV-50 and don't feel I've reached it's max yet... many of the tanks have 2 sponges, some are larger sponges and some are very small only filtering a 10 gallon tank.

It is good to visit others' fish rooms... I got a lot of good ideas doing that. I also got a lot of ideas from researching on-line and reading DIY sections of forums like this one. Here's some pics of my set up, in case you're interested...



























I ran 3/4 PVC pipe all around the room and got the valves from a popular on-line supplier who advertises on this site.... Good luck with your project, I'd like to hear about and see updates.


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## willny1 (Nov 17, 2008)

No one mentioned gorilla racks that you can get at home dumpster or the like.


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## letstalkfish (Dec 25, 2008)

kool I cant wait to get started. gorilla racks could they hold two 55 gallon tanks


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## kerbchek (Apr 1, 2008)

Oh, I'm sure... they make them 48 inches long - 2 55's stacked should be no problem. Those shelves can hold a lot more weight than 2 55's.


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## SupeDM (Jan 26, 2009)

No Gorilla Racks cannot hold 2 55 gallon tanks trust me I have the broken tanks to prove it. Just buy cinder blocks and 2x4 boards. as for the iron stands I have used those with a 55 gal and 2 15 gal tanks as well as 2 20 gallon high tanks. Stack the cinder blocks then put the boards across. I have even seen this done with 2x6 boards and 125 gallon tanks. ALthough it is a good idea to use 3 stacks of blocks on the 125 gallon tanks.


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## kerbchek (Apr 1, 2008)

SupeDM said:


> No Gorilla Racks cannot hold 2 55 gallon tanks trust me I have the broken tanks to prove it. Just buy cinder blocks and 2x4 boards. as for the iron stands I have used those with a 55 gal and 2 15 gal tanks as well as 2 20 gallon high tanks. Stack the cinder blocks then put the boards across. I have even seen this done with 2x6 boards and 125 gallon tanks. ALthough it is a good idea to use 3 stacks of blocks on the 125 gallon tanks.


Really? Wow, I will most certainly retract my earlier statement... the last thing I would want to do is lead anyone down the wrong path, but I did think I read where they work for them... but I really could be mistaken... culprit of my own biggest pet peve... giving advice about something I'm not really sure about... woops! :-?

I've built all my tank stand out of 2x4's and 2x6's... I overbuild because I'm paranoid about breaking tanks... I've thought about using cinder blocks... haven't done it yet, but I've seen pics in lots of fishroom threads where people have done that. How do you level them, shim the block at the floor or the boards that lay on the blocks? Is there another method.


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## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm not exactly sure what Gorilla racks are, but the Home Depot's where I live carry what they call z-racks. The standard ones come 6' long and 18" wide. I have them holding two 125 gallon tanks. I have two other 6' sections that are holding a 125 on the bottom shelf, two 30 breeders on the middle shelf, and six 10's and one 5.5 on the top shelf. These racks are awesome and easy. They run around $150 ea though. You could probably get out cheaper with 2x4's, but the overall appearence of the z-racks look nice. Do a search for "fishroom" here in the DIY forum and you should be able to see some pictures of my set-up. I'm sure you could find valuable info from other post's as well. I feel like heating the room is the best way to go. One central air pump with sponge filters is probably your cheapest way out, but I have grown fond of plumbing several tanks together and use a central sump also. There is pros and cons to everything. Write them all down and see what you want to live with.


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## steve0199us (Oct 7, 2008)

Hi- Would you be able to send me the link with your z-rack? I'm planning to put something together for 6 75gal tanks.. Trying to get ideas and I cant find your thread, thks


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## kerbchek (Apr 1, 2008)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=


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## I3lazd (Dec 29, 2008)

do you really think you will need 1000sqft for 50-60 tanks? you could probably rent a smaller area which would be cheaper on rent and heating/electricity.


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## letstalkfish (Dec 25, 2008)

its not bad 1000 sf for 475 a month. I like the cynder blocks idea.


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## letstalkfish (Dec 25, 2008)

its not bad 1000 sf for 475 a month. I like the cynder blocks idea.


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## Agnag (Dec 1, 2008)

Yeah, if you are not good at building thing with would, cynder blocks would be the easiest and the cheapest. I have some iron stand if you want them.... I have tree 55 and like four 29 iron stands... I don't know how far you live from clevland.


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## Agnag (Dec 1, 2008)

Sorry for the double post..... but I need to learn how to spell.. LOL


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## kerbchek (Apr 1, 2008)

Agnag said:


> Yeah, if you are not good at building thing with would, cynder blocks would be the easiest and the cheapest. I have some iron stand if you want them.... I have tree 55 and like four 29 iron stands... I don't know how far you live from clevland.


One nice thing about the 55 gal iron stands (are they double stack stands?) is you should be able to put 2 20 talls underneath if you wanted to for grow outs... Have your breeder group in the 55 above... just an idea.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Agnag said:


> Yeah, if you are not good at building thing with would, cynder blocks would be the easiest and the cheapest. I have some iron stand if you want them.... I have tree 55 and like four 29 iron stands... I don't know how far you live from clevland.


 I have relatives near Allentown PA. It is about 6.5 hours for me, a little longer from Westlake since I'm closer to the Ohio Turnpike and further east. I went there this summer. You would not want to make the trip in the winter. Too much chance of sudden bad weather.


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## gibbo2838 (Jan 11, 2009)

Getting away from the subject here. How the **** would somebody get arrested and convicted for using MH lights? Wouldn't the drug force have realised they have raided a fish room and not a drug room?

The drug force would need a lot more evidence than somebody buying MH lights from a hydroponics store before they raided anywhere.

Maybe I read your message incorrectly but it just sounded a bit far fetched that somebody was convicted if no drugs were found.


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## talon444 (Nov 25, 2008)

gibbo2838 said:


> Getting away from the subject here. How the #%$& would somebody get arrested and convicted for using MH lights? Wouldn't the drug force have realised they have raided a fish room and not a drug room?
> 
> The drug force would need a lot more evidence than somebody buying MH lights from a hydroponics store before they raided anywhere.
> 
> Maybe I read your message incorrectly but it just sounded a bit far fetched that somebody was convicted if no drugs were found.


Hehe I found it funny too. Think the defense attorney got this accreditation through http://www.online-law-degrees.com/


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## I3lazd (Dec 29, 2008)

I would say they are lying you cannot get into trouble just for possesing hydroponic equip. It is only illegal when you start to manufacture drugs so someone is lying.


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## SupeDM (Jan 26, 2009)

Ya the Z racks are a lot better built Gorilla racks are more for light garage storage or basement normal stuff I think about 200LBS per shelf. To level out the cinder block style stands I used wood shims on the bottom of the blocks at the floor. In some states having posession of hydroponic equipment and being in posession of a small amount of marijuana is considered a serious crime. In minnesota the only way you can get arrested is drunk driving. The local police and sheriffs departments dont give a rats ass what else you do. It is just too profitable for them to write DUI tickets all day. Also the police came to my home one day and saw the Hanging gardens Japanese Maple vines once and made me prove it was plastic ( morons ).


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## famikert (Feb 20, 2003)

I would stay away from the 55 gallon tanks, they are nice to look at with the height of the tank, but being only 12-13 inches wide, is not very good for surface area, and gas exchange, I would go with 60 gallon tanks, not quite as tall as the 55 but 4 inches wider, and a better surface area, just my opinion :fish:


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

cinder blocks and 2x4's!! they're pretty dang level when you set them up. but here is what you do if you're paranoid about level tanks (and tanks that size...you don't need to be)

Set up your cinder blocks, lay your 2x4's, now get some particle board/plywod or do like I did, and use 2x6's 3 deep for 18" tanks, or 2 2x6's for 12" tanks. Now get a bunch of those big foam insulation boards (the pink ones work great) and cut them a wee bit bigger then the footprint of the tank. Set tank on foam...voila, water WILL settle itself level, and the foam will compensate the tiny bit your tanks will be off. Plus it acts as an insulator. I used white foam that had blue plastic backings on it...so my tanks look like they're painted on the bottom lol which is nice, cause true breeding tanks will have NO substrate. Use clay pots for structures/caves.

Since you won't be living near your fishroom, a regenerative air pump can be loud and not offend spouses delicate ears. They're not too expensive either, and you can easily get a pump that will run dozens and dozens of tanks. Sponges are the only way to go for what you want. Cheap, effective, simple. The hydro V's are rated for quite a bit of filtering, but depending on the depth of your tank...make sure to order them with the SHORT tubes, or you'll have to be hack sawing a lot of plastic tubes to get them to fit in your tanks lol.

I too, suggest the use of tanks other then 55's. You could use 33 Longs and have the same footpint, cause height isnt too important, footprint is. But, you could stack the 33's 3 high without being rediculously high, can't do that with 55's if you still want enough space in between to work in the tanks.

You might want to contact some tank builders, you might be able to get a discount if you order a bunch of tanks at the same time. However....55's CAN be had cheaply, as can 10's and 15/20's, same with 20L's and 29's. In those cases, I'd stick with 10's, 15's and 20L's, remember length and width, you'll do better then with tall tanks because you'll be able to fit MORE tanks in the same amount of space. A cichlid isn't gonna know the difference between 40 and 55 gallons lol all they know is I have 1foot I can move this way, and 4 feet I can move this way. Now if you're gonna do some more top water type fish like open water haps or Tang cyps/paracyps then yes, a few tall tanks will help out. I also suggest using the bigger taller tanks on the BOTTOM, not the top, easier when changing water. Remember, a fish BREEDING facility ain't for looks, its for maximizing space and ease of care as much as possible.

I would also suggest saving a lot of room to put in some very large water holding tanks. This way you can treat the tap water for chems, get it to the right pH, hardness, and temp in several hundred gallon lots, and use that for your water changes. Remember, big scale = big thinking.

For the moment, my only other suggestion is spend the greatest amount of money you can on getting WILD stock. It costs a lot upfront, but you'll make more return on F1's then anything else. Some fish, trade strains are fine and will sell, but there are a LOT of big time cichlid breeders, the only way you're really going to prosper is getting stuff other people might not have. Talk with some retailers that bring in wild fish, there is always the chance they'll cut you a deal on large groups of wildfish if you sell them back the F1's at a good price.


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