# Safe Start



## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

Hey have any of you heard of a product called "Safe Start"? Apparently it is supposed to "cycle" your tank instantly by bombarding it with bacteria. I am told that you put this stuff in your tank and then add all the fish you want at once.

I have heard things like this before and am not inclined to believe it. But have any of you had any experience with this product? If so what do you think of it?


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

never used it but i wouldnt trust anything that says it gives u an instant cycle. Im guessing the product will only speed the cycle up. I would suggest (if ure intent on using this product) to add it along with a source of ammonia and take some tests on the water.....after a few days....if the tests show its cycled then good to go.....


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

There are a lot of products that are supposed to do this sort of thing.

I've never known a breeder, LFS owner, or serious enthusiast use one of them. Of the other real serious fish guys I know (including my father), each has their own reason not to use them.

When it comes to the health of my fish, I don't add any extra chemicals to the tank that I don't have to. Additionally, I always had such good luck with the conventional cycle that it never even occurred to me to use the cycle products.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

You may find someone out there who claims it instant cycled, but I'm skeptical too. If a product instant cycled 100% of the time, meaning you add it and then add all of the fish you want, it would be getting a lot of attention. I wouldn't risk doing this just because someone out there claims to have had success with it. What if you're one that doesn't. You could end up with a lot of dead fish. I'd suggest that you be in it for the long haul, and take your time to cycle. it's hard to do, I know, but it's the best way. An option would be to try one of these products if you want to attempt to shorten the cycle time, but don't add fish until you're certain that it's ready for them. It's just not worth it if fish start dying on you. And keep in mind that even if fish don't die, ammonia can do long term damage that opens fish up to disease later or shortens their life spans. An "I used it and all my fish were fine" response doesn't mean the fish weren't exposed to harmful levels of ammonia/nitrite. Just may mean that they don't test for these toxins or understand the nitrogen cycle.

Just my .02


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

prov356 said:


> ... "I used it and all my fish were fine" response ....


I'm so sick of hearing that.


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## Dj823cichild (Mar 30, 2009)

I used it as well "BUT" it didn't do a instant cycle! It took about a week and a half so my advice is don't believe what they tell you on the bottle. Just stick with adding the Safestart and doing your water tests and monitoring how they are building up and you will be fine. I had to use 2 bottles on my 60 gallon tank.


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## mattstevens (Jun 17, 2009)

I am under the impression that this product has replaced Bio Spira. I have heard that the company that makes Safe Start - Tetra, bought out the producers of Bio Spira.

However, I think you will find that even though these products claim to instantly cycle your tank, you will find that it will still take more like a week or so. Which is still quicker, but obviously not instant.

In my experience, when I was using the product Cycle, by Seachem, I added some cheap fish (due to a lack of clear ammonia being available in Australia, they think we are going to make bombs with the stuff), ammonia spiked to 4ppm, removed the fish so they didn't die, then added the product, ammonia dropped within less then a day to 0ppm, then continued to add this product for two days, before reintroducing a stocking of cheap fish to cycle the tank - 30 or so red platys - and continued to use the product for about another 6 days before my levels of nitrite dropped to zero. My ammonia levels stayed at zero for the entire time I was using the product.

So, I think they definitely help with adding bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite (and its possible this was instant), but the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate takes a little more time to build up. But I definitely wouldn't add my intended stock of fish as I personally would not want to expose them to this process and the long term (however, maybe not so obvious) damage it may cause to the fish.


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

mattstevens,

thanks for the info. I am actually too cheap to buy the stuff, so i will never know if it really works first hand. At 23 dollars a bottle (you have to use all of it for a 75 gal), I would only try it on a small tank with danios and then only for curiosity sake.

But here's a question: you said you used it several times while your tank was cycling. Did you have to tank out a loan to buy the stuff?


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

thanks for all that info guys. dj823, you must have deep pockets too.

Here's another question: If this stuff is supposed to cycle "instantly" (and we'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that), how can the bacteria in the bottle survive without ammonia? Am I missing something?


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

cichlidpastor said:


> mattstevens,
> 
> Did you have to take out a loan to buy the stuff?


That was a point my father made. He always cycled with the cheapest fish he could find, which were often feeders, dannios, barbs, or tetras. For less than $10 you could have a school of these fish and cycle a tank without issue, while the chemicals would cost twice as much and not always do the job.


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## mattstevens (Jun 17, 2009)

Sorry guys, the product is Stability by Seachem. Freudian slip.... But anyway....



cichlidpastor said:


> mattstevens,
> But here's a question: you said you used it several times while your tank was cycling. Did you have to tank out a loan to buy the stuff?


A loan? Haha.... Hardly, the bottle cost about $25 for 250ml with 30% free so I got 330ml..... which works out to be about $20USD. So it hardly breaks my budget... But I would say that's a comparable price if not cheaper then a reasonable amount of fish to cycle the tank, given the following instructions -

Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 40 L (10 gallons*) on the first day with a new aquarium. Then use 1 capful for each 80 L (20 gallons*) daily for 7 days. Fish and other aquatic species may be introduced at any time as long as dosage is maintained for 7 days. For optimum biofilter performance use 1 capful for each 40 L (10 gallons*) once a month or with each water change and whenever introducing new fish or whenever medicating an aquarium.


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## mattstevens (Jun 17, 2009)

cichlidpastor said:


> thanks for all that info guys. dj823, you must have deep pockets too.
> 
> Here's another question: If this stuff is supposed to cycle "instantly" (and we'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that), how can the bacteria in the bottle survive without ammonia? Am I missing something?


I don't really understand your misconception as to how we must have deep pockets... It's not that expensive.

But with respect, your taking my comments out of context, I clearly didn't say definitively that it was instant, I just said it may have been with regard to bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite.

I am simply informing you of my experiences with this product. I am clearly no expert on the workings of these products, or could I explain to you how they are supposed to work. However, my guess is you are no expert either, so your ability to refute the claims is equally invalid. It is entirely possibly your missing something.


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

mattstevens,

I wasn't saying that you said it cycled instantly. I am saying that that's the claim of the product (or at least those who sell it). I have no problem with anything you have said. it was really helpful and I learned a lot. I hate talking on boards because it's really given to misunderstanding, but it's all i have.

As far as expense. The product here in the states is 23 USD for 75 gal. If you had to use it twice that's 46 bucks. Remember i said i was cheap! [/i]


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

cichlidpastor said:


> mattstevens,
> 
> As far as expense. The product here in the states is 23 USD for 75 gal. If you had to use it twice that's 46 bucks. Remember i said i was cheap! [/i]


Ouch. Give me $10 of fish or a $12 bottle of ammonia. $46 is outrageous.


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## mattstevens (Jun 17, 2009)

Well it seems that the our different geographical locations has resulted in a difference in price for the products and a difference of opinions.

The cheapest fish my LFS sells are about $0.90, so to buy 20, your looking at about $18.

When this product sells for $25 and gives a quantity that is more then enough to do my 60 gal tank, and in my experience does in fact reduce the time it takes to cycle the tank, I see value in it.

Granted I have a pond full of red platys that I was able to put in at no cost to me to help cycle the tank while adding this product, which would have cost people some dollars if they decided to use.

But I guess my point is that I see value in have a tank fully cycled in just over a week and ready for a full stocking, I believe it was 8 days in my case.

This can create a more harmonious tank, if all your intended fish are introduced at the same time as juveniles, and I see value in this also.

As far as safe start goes.... can't comment because I haven't used it. It does sound a little far fetched though, I must admit. The product I had used claimed to cycle in a week, which IMO is a little bit more realistic - and it pretty much backed it up.

I suppose it comes down to a personal opinion, but given these factors, and the relatively low cost of the product in my part of the world, I believe that the product I had used, Stability, represents pretty good value for money, and it worked pretty much as it claims.

I guess from another point of view you could say what I'm paying for is my impatience :dancing:
But for that I'm willing to pay when things work out alright.


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

Okay everybody,

I have an old 20 gal with filters and such. I have really been wondering about this "SafeStart" so I set up the 20 with with new filter media (no preexisting bacteria). I bought a small bottle of "Safe Start" (cost: 10.00 USD), 8 danios (.50 cents each) and 4 barbs (1.00 each). So all in all a cheap test.

I followed the directions which were: dump in the entire contents of the bottle of Safe Start and then add all fish. So far so good. It has been 2 days and no ammonia yet. I will let you all know each day how it is doing.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I successfully used BioSpira on several tanks in the past. I did augment the initial "dose" of Biospira with a follow-up dose three days later. As explained to me, that ensured that the bacteria that uses the nitrites are sure to be present when the nitrite is actually produced. I had no issue with using it and getting a pretty "instant" cycle according to my test results at the time. (I monitored extremely closely).

All that said, I cannot say Safe Start (while supposedly the Biospira replacement) actually works as well as the original.


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## mattstevens (Jun 17, 2009)

cichlidpastor said:


> Okay everybody,
> 
> I have an old 20 gal with filters and such. I have really been wondering about this "SafeStart" so I set up the 20 with with new filter media (no preexisting bacteria). I bought a small bottle of "Safe Start" (cost: 10.00 USD), 8 danios (.50 cents each) and 4 barbs (1.00 each). So all in all a cheap test.
> 
> I followed the directions which were: dump in the entire contents of the bottle of Safe Start and then add all fish. So far so good. It has been 2 days and no ammonia yet. I will let you all know each day how it is doing.


Maybe cichlidpastor has been converted so to speak? Haha.


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## planenut007 (Mar 21, 2009)

10 comets, one dollar, and a few pinches of flake food...Three weeks later tank cycled and ready for new tenants. If you don't want to flush the comets, just return them or find a friend with a turtle.
I have used a product called "biozyme" to help the process along it seems to speed it up to some where around a week to ten days, it is around three bucks for enough for 500 gal.
When I used it I put the whole container in a 90 gal with 10 comets and one week later all readings where good, did water change and added one oscar, three SD's and a JD all are happy and healthy.
So total cost round $5, cycled in about a week, and the lawn boy got free food for turtle as well.


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

I like turtles.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

planenut007 said:


> If you don't want to flush the comets, just return them or find a friend with a turtle.


 :x :x :x

Can we stop with the flushing suggestions pullleeezze. This drives me nuts. It's cruel to the fish. Period.

Even if this was said it jest, it's not always apparent to new hobbyists that this is not appropriate.


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## planenut007 (Mar 21, 2009)

Sorry holly did not mean to upset you.


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## Dj823cichild (Mar 30, 2009)

Poor fish/turtles that get the woooosh! :-?


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

Okay its day 3 on the 20 gal being cycled with Safe Start, referred to above. My ammonia levels are now at 1ppm, but it may be a little closer to 1.5, hard to tell exactly. I called the LFS that sold me the product and they said that the ammonia that is there has been "detoxified" by the Safe Start. Not sure if I buy that, but that's what the man says.

The fish seem to be very active and no signs of stress. Will let you know more tomorrow


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

cichlidpastor said:


> I called the LFS that sold me the product and they said that the ammonia that is there has been "detoxified" by the Safe Start.


HMMMM. That doesn't sound correct. If Safe Start is Biospira, it is supposed to contain nitrifying bacteria. The bacteria would, supposedly, be multiplying rapidly and consuming the ammonia, converting it to nitrite and then the second type of bacteria would be consuming the nitrite. (This is why I was told to add the second dose in about three days, so the bacteria that consumes the nitrite would be alive and well, rather than starved to death.) If ammonia is present, it means either the bacteria are not doing their job or there are insufficient numbers of them to do the entire job well.

Detoxifying is what Prime does . . .


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## Dj823cichild (Mar 30, 2009)

cichlidpastor said:


> Okay its day 3 on the 20 gal being cycled with Safe Start, referred to above. My ammonia levels are now at 1ppm, but it may be a little closer to 1.5, hard to tell exactly. I called the LFS that sold me the product and they said that the ammonia that is there has been "detoxified" by the Safe Start. Not sure if I buy that, but that's what the man says.
> 
> The fish seem to be very active and no signs of stress. Will let you know more tomorrow


Just be patient and you will be fine.


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

I'm actually not even going to use this tank. This is just an experiment to see how well "Safe Start" works. But thanks for the encouragement


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## binro01 (Nov 25, 2008)

I really dont understand the cycle products. My LFS helps all the people out and if you as for some filter media from their established wet dry setups they are more then happy to give you 3 nice squares from their drip tray free of charge. They look at is an investment to have repeat customers, and I tell everyone to go there to get their fix on aquaria stuff.

One of the first questions when I go into a new lfs is if I can get a piece of filter media to help jump start a new tank to judge what the customer service is at that store.


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

That is pretty cool.

I wouldn't want to put anything from my main LFS into my aquarium though...I don't even like putting their fish into my tank! Who knows whats in that water... :?


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## binro01 (Nov 25, 2008)

LOL I can understand that. This store is a very good store and is well respected. I never had a problem with any of their fish and many of the local breeders work with them and they always have good stock in very clean tanks. I seen the owner many times running around the store doing regular tank maintenance on all of his tanks and wet-drys, he even runs around with a diatom water polisher because he cant stand dirty tanks LOL.


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

Okay the 20 gal being cycled by "Safe Start" is on day 4. It's sitting at 1.5ppm ammonia, obviously 0ppm nitrites and 5ppm nitrates. And 6 dead fish all at once! 2 danios and all the barbs.

So what say you guys (and gals)? I need to call my LFS, but I want to hear what you guys think first. Just in case you want to know pH is at 8.0


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Free ammonia in water becomes more toxic as you increase pH and temperature. Assuming your tank is at 78*F, you hit near toxic values around .5 to .75 ppm NH3 at a pH of 8.0.

Ammonia Toxicity Tables

I don't understand how you are seeing nitrates but not nitrites. I think it is safe to say that if you are seeing ammonia in the water, you have not cycled the tank and have not built up a colony of bacteria to break down the ammonia.


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

vaypourus said:


> I don't understand how you are seeing nitrates but not nitrites. I think it is safe to say that if you are seeing ammonia in the water, you have not cycled the tank and have not built up a colony of bacteria to break down the ammonia.


Thanks for the info. I think the 5ppm nitrates is what the tap water is. I haven't checked the tap yet, but I suspect that it's at or around 5 ppm.


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## mattstevens (Jun 17, 2009)

Interesting experiment non the less. As I mentioned previously, I had no experience with this product, but it's results don't look convincing. I'd be interested to hear what the LFS has to say too.

The main difference I see between this product, and the one I had success with 'Stability'. Is that you don't dump the whole bottle in at once with stability. You add an initial dose, and then continue to use the product daily.

When I was cycling mine with stability my nitrites hit over 5ppm (the test kit I was using only read this high) but ammonia never rose above 0ppm (after placing the product in, before I put the product in think I had an ammonia reading of about 3-4ppm). I had no fish fatalities though with 30 red platy's in a 60 gallon tank. FYI - ph 8.2 and temp 82.4


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

Day 5 on the 20 gal being cycled by "Safe Start." Ammonia levels still at about 1-1.5 ppm. No more fish have died.

I went to my LFS and told them what happened. They then informed me that there were "some others" who had had less than satisfying results. They weren't exactly singing that song the first time around.

But anyway i think the moral of this story is, there's nothing like the old tried and true methods of cycling. However, i think the Safe Start might actually shorten the cycle. We'll have to wait and see.


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

Day 6 on the 20 gal being cycled by "Safe Start". Ammonia levels at a solid 2.0 ppm. Fish seem to be okay for now.


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

I guess we can conclude that "Safe Start" does not "instantly" (or anything close to that) cycle an aquarium.


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

vaypourus said:


> Free ammonia in water becomes more toxic as you increase pH and temperature. Assuming your tank is at 78*F, you hit near toxic values around .5 to .75 ppm NH3 at a pH of 8.0.
> 
> Ammonia Toxicity Tables


Thanks for that chart. It's really helpful. I can see what you mean. But my temperature was about 80 so even worse. I have lowered the temp to about 76. We'll see how that does.


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

Day 7 on the 20 gal being cycled by "Safe Start".

Ammonia levels have now risen to 4.0 ppm. This cycle is proceeding just as if the "Safe Start" was never added! And to believe they have the audacity to charge 23 USD to treat a 75 gal!


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