# Seachem Purigen



## adam858585 (Nov 20, 2010)

Hi, I have managed to get hold of a huge piece of bogwood, it must weigh about 25kg (55lbs), Now i know that bogwood and malawis dont tend to go hand in hand but i wanted to try and do something different. Obviously due to the size and the fact it hadnt been cured it instantly stained the water with tannins. I have heard great things about seachem purigen so went out and bought 2 x 100g bags, one for each external i have. As of yet the water hasnt changed and its been a little over 24 hours. Im going to also start with frequent water changed everyday when i get in after work. Just wanted to ask if anyone had any tips on how to speed the process up or is the wood likely to leak tannins for months and months? Also, has anyone used purigen before and what results did you have?


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## Morpheen (Jul 21, 2010)

The wood will likely leach for months and months. I've read people having success with boiling wood but that might not be feasible since your piece is so large. I've even read of one guy soaking his wood in a hot tub for a few weeks, but I wouldnt recommend that. lol. Also, I doubt the Purigen will be effective since the wood will probably release the tannins faster than the Purigen can absorb it. Your Purigen will just need recharging pretty regularily I would imagine.


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## adam858585 (Nov 20, 2010)

Unfortunatley I think you may be right, the water isnt too bad, i would just prefer it to be crystal clear. Apparantly the tannins can actually be good for the fish. The purigen is quite expensive though so i will see how these 2 go first before i buy anymore. I may also add a load of carbon too above the purigen in the filters. I will take some pictures and post them. Thanks for your opinion anyway.


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## theyangman (Nov 5, 2011)

I have purigen on my tank in the filters. That stuff was super expensive and the tannins in my tank are brutal still. I am on the verge of dumping all the wood and moving to rock.


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## adam858585 (Nov 20, 2010)

How long have you had the wood and the purigen in the tank for? what size piece of wood is it? Im trying to combat my tannins as much as possible. Two external filter both loaded with 100g purigen bags and 20% water changes every day. Might even add a load of carbon to go in above the purigen aswell. Think i may just be in for a long wait with this


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## theyangman (Nov 5, 2011)

I have about 60 lbs of mopani, in my tank, you can see my thread where I posted pictures of the tank. I have a 180 gallon tank and the wood stretches from one end to the other and is pile about 22 inches high in some spots. I have a lot of wood. lol. I have tried boiling the wood, rinsing it, etc... I left a rubber maid container full of the wood in the shower with the hottest water running over it for almost a day straight, STILL getting tonnes of tannic acid.

I have two emperor 400 hobs with purigen in them, Floss, and carbon. Nothing can combat this stuff. I am convinced that there is no solution other than to have tea colored water. I do weekly changes and it only lasts a few days before the color returns.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Have any of you tried using a micron filter?


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## adam858585 (Nov 20, 2010)

Sounds like im really going to struggle then unless i remove the wood altogether. The purigen has been in for a week now and there is hardly any difference. Do you think the purigen may need recharging already? Also what is the easiest way to do this? One last question lol. what is a micron filter?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

theyangman said:


> I have about 60 lbs of mopani, in my tank, you can see my thread where I posted pictures of the tank. I have a 180 gallon tank and the wood stretches from one end to the other and is pile about 22 inches high in some spots. I have a lot of wood. lol. I have tried boiling the wood, rinsing it, etc... I left a rubber maid container full of the wood in the shower with the hottest water running over it for almost a day straight, STILL getting tonnes of tannic acid.
> 
> I have two emperor 400 hobs with purigen in them, Floss, and carbon. Nothing can combat this stuff. I am convinced that there is no solution other than to have tea colored water. I do weekly changes and it only lasts a few days before the color returns.


Yeah mopani isn't the best choice for a fish tank unless you have months and months of waiting in mind.. really high tannins.


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## adam858585 (Nov 20, 2010)

I dont think its mopani, I think it may be bogwood, I will get a picture up this weekend and see what you guys think. Doing 20% water changes every day at the moment and will buy some carbon to go with the purigen tomorrow.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

Some claim that a diatom filter will remove the tannins. As long as you have the wood in the tank, putting off tannins, it will probably be a long ongoing process though.


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## adam858585 (Nov 20, 2010)

what is a diatom filter?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

In my opinion, I would remove it and soak it in a bath, refilling the bath each time it turns color.

Normally change the bath every 30 minutes to hour. (If the wood is floating make sure to sink it some how so its fully submerged every time you change the bath)

Should be right in under a day .. way I have done all my wood and it works every time.


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## adam858585 (Nov 20, 2010)

I wish i had done this before adding all the decor etc. Going to be a real pain in the backside to remove it again. Today i have bought loads of carbon and load more purigen, I have 4 x 100g bags so i keep alternating them around everytime they go a dark colour, by the time the others have recharged i just swap them around. Nothing more i can do now in terms of filtration and water changes. *** spent enough money trying to tackle these tannins. Would have been so much easier just to have done what you said. Oh well, *** learnt my lesson. Hopefully within a week it will have all cleared up. The 2 externals are crammed with carbon and purigen.


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## theyangman (Nov 5, 2011)

it is probably still less work in the long run to head the problem off now rather then letting it leech into your tank. washing it and boiling will help a TON, I had water that looked like diluted coffee on some of the initial pieces being boiled.


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## adam858585 (Nov 20, 2010)

Im going to take your advice and soak this in the bath tomorrow. Can i upload photos on here using photobucket? I want you guys to identify the wood if possible.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

adam858585 said:


> what is a diatom filter?


They use diatomite

"A light soil consisting of siliceous diatom remains and often used as a filtering material"

It's a white powder that is the skeletal remains of micro organisms called diatoms. D.E. filters as they are called in the swimming pool industry are unparalleled for water filtration in the pool industry.

I cannot say I have ever specifically used them to remove tannins when I was a pool contractor but an amply sized DE filter is absolutely the best particle filter for a pool.

Since the tannins are technically in solution, the particle filtration alone isn't enough to remove the tannins, however the diatoms may actually absorb the tannins like a rag picks up oil. It is known to be good for absorbing oil spills both in and out of the water. Particle filtration alone will not remove oils, but since the DE binds with the oil, it does remove oil. And it's possible that the DE may bind with the tannins in a similar manner.

Just a theory.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

DE filters won't remove tannins. They remove fine particles.


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## adam858585 (Nov 20, 2010)

I think with the amount of carbon and purigen im using it should clear up within a few weeks. As long as i keep the parameters the same will mbuna still thirve in the tank? I have no rocks, only a large piece of wood and artificial plants.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

adam858585 said:


> I think with the amount of carbon and purigen im using it should clear up within a few weeks. As long as i keep the parameters the same will mbuna still thirve in the tank? I have no rocks, only a large piece of wood and artificial plants.


If you want to keep Mbuna, rocks would be a more suitable biotype than driftwood IMO.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

prov356 said:


> DE filters won't remove tannins. They remove fine particles.


Diatom filters may not actually remove tannins, I have not used them for that purpose, but others have claimed to have done so.

They do however, in fact remove oil. I used them extensively as a pool contractor, and there is no question that they remove oils. Although I don't recommend polluting water, they quite nicely remove tanning oils and even much larger spills.

And since the oils are not particles, and yet are removed by the diatomite, there may be an ionic attraction between oil and diatomite, at any rate, it removes even non-particulate in the case of oil.

Again, you may be right about tannins, but they are not strictly limited to removing only particles per se.


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## adam858585 (Nov 20, 2010)

I have kept mbuna for serveral years now and have always used ocean rock and crushed coral etc, but just recently fancied a change of scenery. I knew that as long as I kept the PH right then the fish would still thrive, also the wood and plants provide as many hiding places as the rocks would. In all honesty I have always found mbuna to be pretty hardy fish and as long as you dont do anything ridiculously stupid then they should be fine. They seem to be doing really well so far in this new setup, I just wish I could remove these tannins so i could see there colours abit better. Seems to be improving but at a very steady rate.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

It'll just take some time, and you'll get the look you want.

filter/wc, filter/wc, filter/wc...

:thumb:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> And since the oils are not particles, and yet are removed by the diatomite, there may be an ionic attraction between oil and diatomite, at any rate, it removes even non-particulate in the case of oil.
> 
> Again, you may be right about tannins, but they are not strictly limited to removing only particles per se.


Hmm, well, I can't find anything to support that. I run a DE filter on my pool. I used to run the Vortex Diatom filter on my aquariums. I've never found it to be used for or even recommended for anything other than water polishing. If what you're saying is true, then it'd also fall under chemical filtration. Being what it is, the fossilized, skeletal remains of diatoms, I don't see how it would also do chemical filtration. Maybe in the case of oil, the oil simply globs and coats the DE powder. But that'd still be mechanical filtration, not chemical. If a flocculant was used, it'd certainly be filtered out by a DE filter.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

On the purigen, its purpose is not to remove tanins, i know they have it on there advertising speel, and yes it will remove them, but this is assuming your tanins have stopped leeching from the timber. Chances are your saturating your purigen quicker then normal also. So would have to recharge it more often.

If your still leeching tanins you are better to remove and resoak. Its really the only "quick" way to do it .. other then that you have to put up with the color. Nothing you can put in your tank thats safe for fish will "pull" the tanis from the wood.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

prov356 said:


> > And since the oils are not particles, and yet are removed by the diatomite, there may be an ionic attraction between oil and diatomite, at any rate, it removes even non-particulate in the case of oil.
> >
> > Again, you may be right about tannins, but they are not strictly limited to removing only particles per se.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you weren't able to find anything on the internet about it, but as a licensed pool contractor with 20 years experience, I really don't need to rely on the experience of others in this matter.

I'm sure you know more about fish keeping than I will probably know for a good while yet, but we can't all be the all knowing expert about everything. And I promise not to pretend to be, but you can take my word about the ability of a diatom filter to remove oil from water (to a reasonable degree of course).

With respect to aquariums, it would certainly be best used for just polishing the water unless it is a high capacity filter, because as is the case with pool filters, an inadequately sized DE filter will clog up quickly, whereas an oversized one is the ultimate pool filter.

"Maybe in the case of oil, the oil simply globs and coats the DE powder."

I think you've got the right idea on that. Now whether it will remove tannins is still unknown to me.

Flocs bring down particles to the bottom by ionic attraction to heavier particles which weight them down and take them to the bottom. Good luck getting that to work on oil.

Polymeric coagulants on the other hand (often confused with flocs), while they also use ionic attraction, don't necessarily weigh down the particles, but simply attach the particles to a long polymer chain which is then large enough to be filtered out. Again, this is not effective on oil.

For oil removal from pools, enzymes, "scum ball" floats, and DE filtration are the best way other than draining the whole pool, which has it's own issues.

But anyway, we were talking about tannins, so apparently there are claims, but I admit I don't know about that.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I'm sorry you weren't able to find anything on the internet about it, but as a licensed pool contractor with 20 years experience, I really don't need to rely on the experience of others in this matter.


I wasn't questioning what you said about the filter's ability to remove oils, but what you said about there possibly being some ionic attraction to the DE powder.

This all peaked my curiosity, so I did some more searching around and DE filters will remove oils because they will filter out items as small as 2 microns in size. Oils will get trapped within them probably because they'll cling to or coat very small particles making them filterable. DE powder is very inert, and not a chemical filtration media. So unless the tannins somehow cling to small particles, they are unlikely to be filtered out by a DE filter.


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