# New 55 Gallon Tank



## shelbynjakesdad

I recently set up a small N. Multifasciatus tank and became hooked on cichlids. My wife and kids also have been captivated by these little guys, but they want some COLOR! I told them that to get cichlids with good color, we need a much bigger tank... so I found a steal of a deal of a 55 (48") on Craigslist. It came with everything, including fish (misc tropicals) and is fully cycled. I'm in the process of locating some rocks to re-decorate and then I'll be off the to the LFS to trade in the tropicals and get some mbuna. I have a great LFS who has a wide selection of mbuna at very reasonable prices, and they take all fish in for credit, so I'm going to get all my mbuna there.

I've done some extensive research on this site, so I think I'm on the right track for stocking... I just want to get some opinions to make sure I'll be fine. My wife's requirement is "no silver or plain colored fishes" and we want breeding groups, so that leaves me with mbuna that have colorful females. I also hate seeing fish that are too large for their tanks, so I want to stick to the smaller mbuna. All that being said, here is what I am considering:

1M/5F Cynotilapia Hara (Fish at the LFS are about 2 inches now and I think can differentiate M/F)
8-10 Rusties (Cannot sex them, they are about 1 to 1.5 inches)
10-12 Msobo Deep (May get fewer if can be sexed, need to go back and look closer, but I want a LOT of females, love the color)
1 ALbino BN Pleco (Came with the tank, its about 2 inches)

I think this follows the rules of 3 breeding groups, different genus, and no look-alike males. I understand that as they get older I'll have to trade in some of the extra males (and hopefully fry).

One of my concerns is aggression from the Msobo. My first choice was Saulosi, but he doesn't currently stock them, so Msobo seems like the closest substitution (I want at least 1 VERY dimorphic species). My other concern is size. I've seen different info for all these species in regards to size - I don't want anything more than 5 inches, preferably 4 inches. Any suggested substitutes are welcome, just keep in mind my requirements - small mbuna with colorful females.

Wow, this turned into a long post - thanks for reading if you made it all the way to here. Thanks for any advice / suggestions...
-Dan


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## NJmomie

Hi Dan, I know the Pseudotropheus saulosi are dimorphic and the female are beautiful yellow. I think the Msobo deep and hara are both blue right? So maybe you can swap one of them with the saulosi for a yellow color. Btw, do you have a picture of your shellie tank? Would love to see it.


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## shelbynjakesdad

Yeah Saulosi were actually my first choice, but the LFS doesn't stock them - so I substituted Msobo. I think they should be fine with Hara. The females are brilliant yellow/orange and the male is blue with black belly / blotches. The Haras are light blue with a few black vertical bands, quite different looking from the Msobo male.

The only pics I have of the Multi tank (10 gallon) were taken with my cell phone:
















I (and the multis) have re-arranged things a little, but these are close to what it looks like now.

And here is the new 55 gallon (many changes coming to this tank):


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## DJRansome

I think both the hara and the msobo can hit 6 inches when mature.


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## shelbynjakesdad

Really? The profiles on this site list max size of 5" for Hara and 5.5" for Msobo. I've looked around on other sites and seen anywhere from 4"-5" for Hara and 4.5" to 5.5" for Msobo. Those of you that have these species, how big are yours? Are the females typically smaller than the males? I'd only keep 1 male of each species, so I guess 1 5.5" to 6" fish of each might be ok.

I really love the Hara, I sat at the LFS for quite a long time watching them flash their bars and change color right before my eyes - incredible... I'm pretty sure I'm going to get those. Msobo are beautiful fish, but I'm not set on them. If they get too big or are too agressive, I'm open to getting something else... I really wish they stocked saulosi. Are there any other "smallish" mbuna that would fill in that yellow/orange color to compliment the Hara and Rusties?


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## NJmomie

Hi Dan, the only Cynotilapia hara I see in this site's species profile section has both the male and female to be blue. "Since it's introduction into the hobby a few years ago, this fish has undergone a number of different trade names, from Zebra Hara, to Cyno. afra White Top. This fish is unusual for a Cynotilapia in that the females are an attractive blue colour as well as the males, and the unusually long pelvic fins of the males. This fish is collected at Gallireya Reef". Am I looking at the wrong one? As for the saulosi, did you ask your LFS to order them for you? I think they are pretty popular fish so I don't see why they wouldn't.


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## shelbynjakesdad

Yep that's the one... absolutely gorgeous fish. :thumb:


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## shelbynjakesdad

Another thought I had was to get some M. estherae (Red Zebras) instead of the msobo. How do they compare size wise? Is it really hard to find the variant with blue males (which I would prefer)? I'll have to go back to the LFS and see which he has. So what do you think of the combination of hara, rusties, and estherae? Is the orange of the rusties and zebras too much orange? I've never seen an adult rusty, so I'm not sure if they are more orange, purple, or brown. I think if I went this route I'd get a couple more hara females and fewer rusties.

Then again, I'm not really set on rusties... I could do hara, estherae, and another smaller mbuna, but I don't know which. Rusties are an easy choice because they are different color than everything and are small. Any suggestions for a 3rd mbuna with hara and estherae?

Thanks. :fish:


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## NJmomie

All the rusties I have seen are a brownish purple depending on the light. I think they are very pretty but not many feel that same way about them. Poor rusties...


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## DJRansome

Having 6" fish in your tank really isn't a problem unless it bothers you. When we first did the profile for the hara, 5" was the best info we could gather at the time. I have some that are still young and are 5" I think. We will review.

I was surprised to see the msobo listed at 5.5".


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## shelbynjakesdad

Thanks DJ... I just hate seeing fish in tanks that look too big / don't have enough room to swim. I've never had a 55g before or any 6-inch fish, so maybe you are right. I just think my preference would be to have more smaller fish. The tank I bought has a large (maybe 9 inch) tinfoil barb in it that's WAY too big, I feel so sorry for that guy and I'm going to trade him in ASAP. I guess since the majority of my tank will be females (which are typically smaller), I should be ok with 2 males that exceed 5 inches (since rusty males should stay under 5 inches).

After reading more about the msobo, I'm now leaning toward estherae in its place. So I'll probably go with the hara / rusty / estherae combo... Do you see any issues with this? Sound good?


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## DJRansome

I think the estherae would work, but I see they are listed at 5". Again surprised. I think my estherae is the largest fish in my tank, LOL.

I would not choose estherae over msobo for size (since fish vary anyway)...go with the one you like.


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## shelbynjakesdad

Well, I went to a rock quarry this weekend and bought 200lbs of rock. I think it turned out pretty good (fake plants temporary):









I tried to make caves and cracks for the fish to claim as territory, but there is no way I can make enough for all of the fish I'm going to get... is it important that they all have a cave? How does that work? Do I need to pull out the big rock on the left and add more small rocks to form more caves? Also, if the fish get 5-6 inches long there aren't many places they could fit...


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## DJRansome

You would be surprised where they can fit, LOL. Every male will want to claim a territory on the substrate surrounded by rocks (not a cave so much). You probably want to have 2X as many territories as you have males.


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## shelbynjakesdad

DJ, thanks for continuing to answer my quesitons - very helpful for a newb. I didn't know that the territories are on the substrate... I thought the caves were the territories. The females don't claim territories? Do they just use the caves to escape aggression? So do I need to have more depth of the rocks (from to back) along the substrate? Right now it is mostly a rock wall, with caves/cracks.

Thanks.


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## DJRansome

Well no one really needs caves...a patch of substrate with rocks for a border is what the male wants. More of a cubicle than a cave.

The females just hover overhead and do not claim territories. Yes...think of the rocks as a means of escape for them, but once in a true cave, the fish will not stay in there and defend the entrance if it is not dominant...IDK why but when challenged they come right out into the face of the aggressor and hide at the surface in plain sight.

For the females you want lurking places like under a ledge or a swim through where maybe the chaser will lose track of her. Like a car chase scene.

Maybe a rock every so often along the front and the back to section off patches of substrate? The males can claim the spots in between.

I like the rocks you chose and your arrangement though!


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## shelbynjakesdad

Great! Thanks for the advice. I've read tons of articles about fish, but not found any about how to arrange the rocks. They all say "LOTS OF ROCKS", but don't say much about how to best arrange them. Your description makes a lot of sense and it sounds like my arrangement is good for the most part, just need to add some "dividers" in the substrate along the rock wall. :thumb:


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## shelbynjakesdad

UPDATE!

I re-scaped the tank a bit, removing the big rock on the left and creating more "cubicles" (as DJ called them) along the substrate for the males to "work". I love these rocks, they stack great creating caves and swim-throughs, and they make stunning backgrounds for close up photos of the fish.









Also finally got some mbuna. Finally decided on msobo, hara, and rusties. I picked up 8 msobo, trying to pick out as many females as possible. It was kind of hard to tell, but after watching them for almost a week, I think I have 3M, 5F. They are about 2 inches and the males are starting to "morph" to blue. I realize I'll have to rehome the extra males. I also picked up the hara, but have no idea which are male and female. They are smaller, only about an inch, but I got a great deal ($4.50 each for F1 fish). I picked up 12 because of the size, price, and the fact that I cannot tell sex at all (want to be sure to have enough females). They only had 4 rusties left, so I'm waiting until they get more.

Here is my question... How long do I have to add the rusties? I don't want the msobo and hara to claim all the good territory and attack the rusties when I add them. I know I did it a bit backwards, since the rusties are smaller and less aggressive than the msobo and hara, but that's what the LFS had at the time.

Anway, here are some pics, not great quality - taken with my iPhone...

msobo female:









msobo male starting to morph to blue:









hara:









another hara:


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## DJRansome

Nice!

I'd want to add the rusties in a week.


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## shelbynjakesdad

Only a week? Really? I think my msobo are still too immature to spawn and the hara are definitely too immature. Isn't that when they start showing real aggression? I'm not sure I'll be able to get the rusties for a week or two - depends on when the LFS gets them. If a few weeks pass before I get the rusties, does it help to move rocks around to shake things up a little when I add them?


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## IanR29

You'd be surprised on how young mbuna can spawn. I've got an acei no bigger than 2" that is holding a mouth fil of fry right this second. I've also got 24 hara to go along with it, with 1 of the wild caught female holding and she's about 3". I've got 2 w/c males sight the bigger being the dominant but none have claimed an area. They roam everywhere and also swim constantly In the open water. They are all still really young with the latest male at 4". I would guess he's going to Fe every bit of 6". I've also had red zebras that have hit 6" as well. I'd like to say that what is listed on their specs on size is what's going on in the wild where in captivity will hit larger in size due the abundance of food and lack of predators.


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## DJRansome

It's not so much a spawning issue, but claiming territory. Of course you can add the fish whenever you get them. But if you really wanted the rusties to be on equal footing with the other fish...that would need to happen pretty quick. A worthwhile goal, but often not realistic. No worries!


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## shelbynjakesdad

Thanks for the replies...

IanR29, I've pretty much given up on only keeping smaller fish. Ideally it would be nice, but I can't get saulosi locally and I'm looking for mbuna with colorful females, so not much other choices. I was just kind of confused because everyone was saying acei are too big for 55 gallons because they get 6 inches, so I was trying to keep only smaller fish.

DJRansome, I haven't seen much territory claiming yet, so for now I think I'm ok. I'll get the rusties in there as soon as I can. I haven't seen any aggression from the msobo towards the hara yet, its all been contained to their on species. Maybe they don't see them as a threat because they are so much smaller. I've seen the alpha male msobo fighting (locking jaws) with what I thought was a female, who didn't back down from him at all. Do they do that, or is that one a male in female "clothes"?

Anyway, just thought I'd share a pic of the alpha male, he is really changing fast!


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## q8vw

Nice picture and scape!


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## shelbynjakesdad

Thanks! I'm still waiting on my rusties, I'll post some more pictures when I get them. I'm pretty amazed how fast the fish are growing / changing, especially the young white tops. I guess NLS is as good a food as advertised!


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## amcvettec

Congrats on a great setup! I did the same with Msobo - purchased 8 juvies. They've grown substantially and its interesting to watch the color change on the males.


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## shelbynjakesdad

Just thought I'd share a couple pics to see the progression of the fish. The female msobo look just about the same as when I bought them (except bigger), but the male is really changing, almost looks more "hara" than "msobo" now  :









And here is a pic of one of my hara males, they are getting a lot more colorful:









Its fun to look back at the pictures I took about a month ago and see the difference! I still have no rusties, and I'm getting a little frustrated. The LFS says they are not on the lists from any of the breeders they get their fish from. It would cost me too much in shipping to just order 8 online... I kind of wish I had ordered the rusties and the saulosi from Dave's in the very beginning... oh well, the fish I do have in there are really stunning... I'll get it sorted out eventually. :thumb:


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## shelbynjakesdad

New addition to the tank... S. lucipinnis:








Sorry for the blurry pic, these guys are always on the move! I bought 3 of them, but now I'm wondering if I should have went with 5. I might go back and get a couple more... thoughts?

Also, here is another pic of my dominant white top hara:








He keeps looking better all the time!

How long should I leave the rest of the males in there? I have not seen much aggression at all, some of the other males flare at him and act tough, but not much more. They are still quite small, maybe 2 inches. Does the aggression level ramp up slowly or will they just snap one day and go to war? Sorry for the newb questions... but that is what I am...


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## DJRansome

Yes I'd do more synodontis and aggression can ramp or the fish can snap, hard to predict. I always leave the males until trouble starts or someone does not color up.


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## Bowfront

3 of those catfish in a 55 is more than enough to keep it clean. I have only 2 in my 72 bowfront and they do a great job. 5 would be overkill unless your tank was 100 gallons + IMHO.


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## DJRansome

Well, they aren't really cleaner fish any more than the mbuna. But in larger groups they are more social and out-and-about more. Lucipinnis stay small, a larger group would be fine in a 55G.


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## shelbynjakesdad

Yeah, I didn't get them for cleaning, just a cool fish to add interest to the tank. My 3 year old son LOVES them and calls them sharks. I told him they are actually catfish, but he doesn't believe me... "no, those are SHARKS!"

My only concern, especially if adding more, is how to get food to them. My mbuna are such aggressive feeders that food rarely makes it down to the substrate unless I dump in too much by accident. Even then, they scoop it up in just a few seconds, and the synos are nowhere to be found. Should I wait until the lights go out and try?


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## DJRansome

As long as the synodontis don't start to get skinny, keep doing the same thing. Do dump the food in quick to ensure some pellets make it to the bottom. Eventually the synos (especially if you get more) will rush out when the first pellets hit the substrate and get their share. Mine hid for weeks at first, but they never got skinny and they eventually got over their shyness.


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## shelbynjakesdad

FINALLY added some rusties to the tank. They are quite small, only about 1 inch, but I think they will be fine with my larger mbuna. The biggest fish in the tank is about 2.5 inches.

Right now I'm grossly overstocked (33 fish, 3 snails!):
8 Metriaclima sp. "Msobo" - 1 male, 5 confirmed females, 2 juveniles that appear female
11 Cynotilapia sp. "Hara" - Have no idea M/F ratio, removed 1 male that was clashing with my biggest (also best looking) male
9 Iodotropheus sprengerae - No idea M/F, they are only 1"
3 Synodontis lucipinnis - Want to add 2-3 more, but I'll probably wait until I remove some mbuna
1 BN Pleco (albino)
3 Nerite snails - so far the mbuna don't pick on them too much

I know I will have to remove some fish as they get bigger, but things seem great right now. The Msobo are breeding and the Hara are looking like they will start soon. The rusties are settling in fine, I think they are small enough that the older fish just ignore them for now. I'll get some pics of the rusties and maybe some updated pics of the other fish. I'm having a great time with this tank, and everyone who sees it can't believe that a freshwater tank can look so good!


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## wax32

Your tank is looking great. Let's see some new pictures of the fish!


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## shelbynjakesdad

Ok, some pics, all of them were taken with my iPhone, so the pics don't really do justice to the beauty of these fish. I need to get a better camera!

Here are a few of my rusty babies (about 1"):









My alpha male Cynotilapia sp. "Hara":








This guy might be my favorite fish. He can quickly change from the bright sky blue with bars you see in the picture, to a medium blue/purple without bars in just a few seconds (like the fish in the background of this pic). I never get tired of watching this fish.

My alpha male Metriaclima sp. "Msobo":








My other "favorite" fish. He reminds me of a "water color" painting... love it.

My two alpha males hanging out together. I haven't seen them ever squabble, they get along just fine:









One of my Msobo females, very nice yellow/orange color on this fish:









And finally, a picture of a holding Msobo and a fast moving Hara:








It seems like I always have 1-3 female Msobo holding... I've stripped about 30 fry from 3 females, but I can't keep up (and don't have much room for more fry!) - my Syno cats are going to get some tasty treats!

I'll post a pic of the whole tank / scape later... thanks for looking, and thanks for all the advice I've gotten from this forum - I'd never be able to put together such a nice tank without it!


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## Austinite

Love the pictures and your tank! I especially like the one with your 2 dominant males...that one is just staring straight into the camera, great shot


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## shelbynjakesdad

Here is a pic of the whole scape:








Notice that I painted the stand all black. The two toned wood/black look got old pretty fast. I think it looks much better now.

I also noticed that one of my anubias has sent out a "flower" stalk, I'm quite surprised because it doesn't look really healthy, my mbuna are pretty rough on it:









I think I might have to shorten the time that my lights are on... I'm starting to get more algae growth on the rocks, mostly this weird "reddish" algae that I haven't seen before. Everything in my tank eats algae (especially the BN and nerites), so I like a little... but I don't want it to get out of control.


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## shelbynjakesdad

Wow, it's been a whole year since I have updated this thread!!!

I made a change to my stock list. The rusties just weren't doing it for me. They never really colored up, just stayed a drab brown and I never even noticed much interesting behavior from the group. Maybe it was a result of my stock list (being housed with the larger and more aggressive Msobo and Hara)? They just hung around in the rocks and, since they were dull brown, were pretty much invisible with my dark rockwork. Anyway, I made the tough decision to rehome them and pick up a group of Labidichromis sp. "Perlmutt" juveniles. So far, I'm loving these little guys - they provide a lot of contrast to the rocks and the other fish in the tank. So here are a few updated pics...

My male Msobo, love this fish, he is truly stunning and very active but not too aggressive.









My male Hara, king of the tank! Also, love the color of my female Msobo...









Here's a pic of one of my little Perlmutts...Kids call them Zebra Fish, lol. Not a great photo, need to try and get a few better shots...


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## boomer92

It's nice when old threads get updated, since I've never seen this one. Following new tank setups with the progression to stocking choices and the final results and compatibility is not only interesting reading, but also educational! Love the tank and the stock. Thanks for the update!


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## Ramseydog14

Great looking fish SnJDad! I hadn't seen this thread either, so thanks for updating it. I may start a thread later showing the development of one of my tanks over this last year.

I love the Msobo,..they are my next group to try. Also, great looking Hara male! He looks a whole lot like one of mine is starting to look. I will try to post a pic of him later.


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## shelbynjakesdad

Thanks for the comments... It is fun to look back and see the changes in the tank and the fish. I've been building a reef tank for the past 6-8 months, so I haven't made many changes to this tank for a while... until the recent change to the Perlmutts. I'll try to keep this thread more up to date!


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