# Help get my stocking right



## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

So I am in the process of getting everything together to set up a 48" 55gal tank and am just wondering what a good mixture of these fish would do good. Now this isnt what I plan on putting in there they are just what I have come across while looking here at all the pictures.

Pundamilia cf. azurea
Alcolapia alcalicus
Aulonocara "German Red"
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Charo)
Cynotilapia afra (Cobue)
Haplochromis sp. "flameback"
Astatotilapia aeneocolor

Now once again these are just the fish that I liked while going through the countless pages of fish. Now if someone could tell me what out of this list would work together and in how many of each, m-f ratio, and all that wonderful stuff it would be greatly appreciated. Also if someone has some other ideas for my tank that would be extremely colorful that would be appreciated as well.

-Ryan


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

I usually check the local breeder's stock, not the library. Are you planning on ordering them, or buying them locally? Those vics aren't going to be easy to find!


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

And not to mention the Alcolapia likes SUPER hard and warm water. It's nickname is the soda cichlid. I think Dave's has them.

Oh, and I have a lot of F2 cobue (and F2 albinos).


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

well I was planning on ordering them online as the LFS here is not someone I trust!  Like I said its not the exact list but its kind of the idea for colors. I am just getting back into it and I want to do something that is going to be very colorful but also maybe some females for breeding.


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

Breeding may be tough if you had a few different species of Aulonocara, as many females look identical, and you run the risk of crosses. Not to mention, that's an awful lot of fish for a 55. Maybe cut that down to 2 groups at the most - or all male. And I'd not recommend the cobue with a peacock.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

like I said these are just ones I looked at and I liked the colors  so I do realize that they are an awful lot. I just bookmarked a bunch of pages as too what I liked and now I just have to dwindle down the list to make it final. So say I was to go with the Cobue what would be a good second fish to go with him?What would be a good m-f ratio for the Cobues if I wanted them to breed? or say I was to go With the Vics how many am I looking at fitting in my 55? I am really just at the starting/feeling out stage as to what I want in my tank and I do appreciate any advic you guys can give


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Victorians are tricky so if you are going to have any at all, choose the Vic first and stock around it. For example, if you want Pundamilia, stock 1m:4f. They are very aggressive so don't stock peacocks and go with more aggressive mbuna than Cobue.

If Cobue is your "must have" fish, choose only timid mbuna to go with them like yellow labs.

If the peacock is your "must have" fish, one peacock, one hap and yellow labs will work. Choose a small, timid, blue hap like Copadichromis chrysonotus. 1m:4f of each.

Three species with 1m:4f is a good starting place for a 55G.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

OK so say I was to make the Cobue the main attraction in the tank(he is so nice looking) what other Mbuna other than yellow labs would you suggest with him? I want the tank to be very colorful as Its always nice to see lots of colors


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

If you keep the Cobue, you will need the female to get the bright breeding dress. As you know, females can be bland, so if you like colors, then you might be able to get away with 1 or 2 females to minimize the bland fish. But if you want to step it up a notch, get one male, one regular female and two albino females. (You have three different color variations right there.) Once ready, they will breed a lot, so if one is holding the other two will hold the male's attention.

As for tank mates, you could go with an SRT Hongi, and some nice females look like males, so you can get a good 1:3 there and get good colors. The purple compliments the yellow of the labs very well.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

that SRT Kongi looks nice I might just have to go with them if I can get my hands on them. So my stock list would look something like this then?

Cynotilapia afra (Cobue) 1M:3F
SRT Hongi 1M:3-4F
and then some Yellow Labs to mix up the color probably like a 1M:3F ratio

would that be feasible?


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

I actually keep Afra Cobue (or I guess Zebroides Cobue now) and SRT Hongi together in my grow-out. I also had some adults in a community tank with green afra (mbwecca) and a few others and they seemed to ignore each other for the most part. The male hongi actually picked on the green afra female for some reason...

Again, if you can get a couple (or even one) albino females, it will brighten up the tank. Regular females are fairly drab. And find some nice bright SRTs. I've seen many not so SRT...

The stock looks good to me. Just make sure you have enough rocks/caves/hiding spots/escape zones that the females can retreat to if picked on.

(Just a side note: From my experience, Afra Cobue seem to be fine with a 1:1 ratio, however, the hongi are not. They definitely need the extra females as buffers. I once had a female that I could pass off as a male, but after two spawns (had them for a couple years) he flipped and chased and attacked her constantly.)

Anyone have a dissimilar experience?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd stock 1m:4f for all and I would avoid two species of blue barred fish in the same tank. Sometimes Cobue have trouble coloring up with more aggressive species...which is most mbuna. :thumb:

How about a different Cynotilapia? Cynotilapia sp. hara, Labidochromis caeruleus and Pseudotropheus socolofi (albino).


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

Hmm, quite possibly. Mine seem alright from personal experience. Could also be that my hongi and Cobue look nothing alike. My Hongi (srt i suppose) are the purple variety with bright orange dorsals (no blue) and dark purple stripes. Cobue range from albino to dark blue to gray to a dominant male, which is light blue with 7 dark blue/black stripes. The hongi are also are agressive to conspecifics. So works for me, but no telling what you can get a hold of. Better safe than sorry - until you gain experience, I suppose.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

OK so another weird question. the Cobue is supposed to grow out to a max 3", the labs 4" and the Hongi's 5" or around there. Now that is length, what I am wondering is how thick they should get if they are healthy. I am asking because I am doing something a little different in my tank for the caves.

What I am planning on doing is using 2" pvc piping to make sort of cave systems in my tank. They arent going to be very big caves only maybe 1 foot max from entrance to exit. I am just worried that they will out grow the 2" pvc very fast. Do you guys think I would be fine for the first like 6-8 months or do you think they will out grow the piping before that?


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

Honestly, I don't think they will use it. Dominant mbuna will make their own caves in the gravel/sand where they see fit. Plus you would be better off using rock, as it would stimulate their natural feeding behavior... 
I use some pvc in my fry tanks, but once in a while only one will sit in it.

Over the years, I've tried pvc for a few species, but the only ones that really took to it were the callochromis pleurospilus, and they liked the sections that were 3" in dia and only about 6-7" long, open on both sides.

But to answer your question about thickness, those adult fish will be about 1.5"-2" tall with dorsal extended. Labs are skinnier, cobue and hongi more torpedo shaped.

Though going back to what DJRansome was saying, there is a chance that the cobue and hongi may not like each other based on the coloration and body shape, so please be careful if you are going that route. And try and get small fish about the same size so they will grow together.


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

They can fit in some spots you wouldn't expect them to!


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

I guess I should of mentioned that it wouldnt be just the pvc piping. what I was planning on doing is using the pvc piping and then stacking rock around it so you wouldnt see the pipe just the opening. Also I know the white colour of the pvc isnt natural so I was thinking of spray painting the ends just so they blend in better. I dont know how well it is going to work. But I think I am going to do it atleast for the first bit while they get acclimated to the tank. but if I notice thye arent really using them then I will take them out.


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

Yeah, I kind of figured so. 

And if you are new to these fish, realize that many like to dig at the base of rocks, and depending on how they are stacked, you might have some shifting.

I've also been thinking that if it is colors you are after, and to avoid any potential issues between the afra and hongi, what about going with some Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty cichlid)? 
Similar colors, a bit smaller and less aggression than the hongi. Just another thought...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have PVC pipes inside my rock piles. I have 2" and 3" diameter, they use both but prefer the 2".

I have a particular way I do my stacks. Bottom (on the glass or egg crate, no substrate under) is a large terra cotta saucer covered by a slate tile (spaces for Synodontis and BN to enter and exit). On the slate I have 2 pipe lengths. I drill one hole in the end of each and tie wrap them tightly together forming a stable, strong base. I bury the whole thing in rocks.

One pipe opens front and has slate cover in back. The other pipe opens back and has slate cover on the front. I bury the whole thing in rocks.

It gives me some height and is very stable. Substrate comes up to the edge of the saucer so you cannot see it. Catfish love the shallow space.

There are enough rocks required to cover everything to make additional fish happy with more natural nooks and crannies.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

ya DJ that was what I kind of planned on doing is setting up the pipe and the rocks and then adding the substrate after to make sure there isnt much if any sand under the rocks. I do realize that they like to dig but I am hoping to give them enough floor spce to dig so they dont have to dig out the rocks( ya I know wishful thinking there). But I am hoping that they like the caves and dont get to big for them.

Kenko you might be right might switch up the Kongi for the Rusty. They do look a little bit similar but the profile section says they are less aggressive which might be a good thing.

Well thanks everyone I am getting very excited I am about to start getting my stand finished up. Man its hard finding motivation to finish the stand when everything else is so far away from being ready. Once I get my stand built I am going to start setting up my cave systems(fingers crossed I actually like it after I am done making it)


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

another kind of noob question. If I go with this stocking list should I have a spare tank set up just incase the fish do start to breed. Or are they fine in the same tank as long as there is lots of hiding places for the fry?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The fish will breed but the adults are likely to eat all the fry. You may get the occasional survivor, which is actually a bad thing if you don't have a spare tank because then your ratios will be off. :thumb:

If you want to raise a batch of fry, better to plan it and have spare tanks/filters/heaters on day one of the mom holding. Which can be in the bag on the day you bring the fish home, or not for the first year.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

ok and a 10gal would be a good size to hold the fry if I actually do get any or should it be more like a 20?


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

A 10 is good for a single brood. I use a 10 as a first stop after stripping, then they stay in there until they get about an inch or so - then into a grow-out.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

ok so your grow out then is what size? IM asking because if I have to go out and buy a 10 and a 20 I might as well just buy a 20 and let them grow out in there


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

Oh jeez, depends on what tank is open. (but realize that I have about 18 tanks total of various sizes so I can move things around as needed) 
Right now I am using 3 tanks for growout (along with 4 ten gallons for fry)... 
a 29 for some dewindti
a 40 long for some leleupi and tretocephalus
a 50 breeder was my afra cobue and SRT hongi growout until just a few days ago (now it houses temporarily 2 furcifer ruziba males and a near adult dewindti

Do also be aware that breeding can happen constantly, and if you want to raise them, (as an example) you do not want to put in 3/8" fry with 1" fry as they will get harassed - but 3/8" with existing 1/2" should be fine. Did that make sense? Basically, after a few weeks of spitting fry that same female may have more eggs, and the cycle continues. There are also little tricks where you can put in the holding female with existing 1/2" fry or smaller and she will most likely think they are hers and will ignore them (and the fry will think she is their mom and hang out). I am almost leaning toward two 10s if possible if you want to keep many spawns - but if you intend on keeping only one or two broods, then a 20 should suffice to grow them out.

Oh, and for fry filtration, you should go one of two ways - use an air pump and a sponge filter, or a HOB with a sponge filter attached to the intake. Either will insure that no fry get sucked up in to a filter.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

Ya I am not too sure what I want to do I am just trying to get as much info as I can so I make the right decision  and thank you guys for being helpful. Well Im off to try and get to the almost completed stage of my stand.....Man do I wish my girlfriend knew where her camera charger was so I can take pictures.


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

Cool. Good luck. :thumb:


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

so just wondering I was going over Dave's stock list and came across these 3 that looked nice and he has both males and females. I was just wondering if this would be alright to stock together or not?

http://www.davesfish.com/images/Metriaclima mbenjii Mbenji OB.jpg
http://www.davesfish.com/images/Cynotilapia sp Mbamba Mpanga Rocks.jpg
http://www.davesfish.com/images/Labidochromis sp Hongi Hongi Island.jpg


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd choose either the hongi or the mbamba but not both.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

So should I go with another Cynotilapia or go with a different type like a Melanochromis?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Choose a different genus and there is not a melanochromis that will work in a 55G...too aggressive.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

ok so what would you suggest DJ?I am really not sure what I want to go with......So if you were in my shoes what would you choose?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Something that is not blue. Yellow lab? Rusty?


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

I was thinking a Lab but I wasn't sure. what about something along the lines of?

http://www.davesfish.com/images/Labidochromis caeruleus Nkhata.jpg

if not Im thinking ill keep the Cynotilapia and get rid of the Hongi and go with some yellow Labs.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It's ok but you already have a lot of blue. If you want a solid light blue fish there is also socolofi.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hello sir

i am a newbie here, but from my 1 year or so experiences.

i do not think peacocks mix well with mbunas.
my male red shoulder peacock was 1 inch larger than my mbunas but he got murdered very soon.  
i switched to electric blue hap and it did much better with mbunas.
and i also have 3 Zebra obquliens. they fight until i have to give him away...
my advice u can mix victorian with malawis but do not mix victorians themselves.
they can hybrid and some of them are *******. :lol:

thanks



ryencok3 said:


> So I am in the process of getting everything together to set up a 48" 55gal tank and am just wondering what a good mixture of these fish would do good. Now this isnt what I plan on putting in there they are just what I have come across while looking here at all the pictures.
> 
> Pundamilia cf. azurea
> Alcolapia alcalicus
> ...


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## Cajen (Mar 16, 2012)

Of the 3 you listed from Dave's. I personally like the Mbamba best. I too am about to get my 55g going again and how. I narrowed it down is have 2 windows open with one being cichlid forum home and Dave's stock list... one at a time, starting in whatever lake you prefer (Malawi for me) look at every fish. Find what you think are three that are colored distinctly different and then find other 3 species combinations. Ask in your specific lake forum... folks will happily offer advice on what works (or not) and why. This forum and the folks on it are great!


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

So, once again I find myself looking at the profile page and was wondering if

Iodotropheus sprengerae
Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt"
Cynotilapia afra (Cobue)

would work for a combination. I have told myself that the Cobue is the fish Im going to try to build my tank around. I was thinking of a ratio of about 1m-4/5f for each? If that possible? Also would they possibly get along or no?

If I have to I could get rid of the Rusty but I dont know what I would replace him with. Any suggestions?

I have to wait until the end of May to buy my fish  so I am thinking of getting my tank started to fish less cycle mid May. I am having a hard time finding pure Ammonia. Everything I find here is colored so I know it is no good. Is there something else besides Dr.Tims that I can use?

I am thinking I need to pick up one more filter though currently only have one AC70. Which is currently running on my mother in laws tropical tank to get some BB on it. I am hoping I can find a deal on an AC110. I want to eventually be running atleast 2 AC110 and a Canister. I am still lost as to which Canister but I know it will be a little bit until I can get one anyways.

Thats enough rambling from me. If you have any suggestions for me as to what I can stock with the Cobue, if the Pearlmutt and Rusty dont work, please let me know.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think perlmutt is more aggressive than yellow lab, and given the cobue's need to be dominant I'd go with the yellow.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

So Yellow labs, Rusty and Cobue "should" work as long as everyones personalities are kind of normal? and I should go with 1m-4f for them or possibly 1m-5f if I can get them?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

1m:4f will be great. But you may not be able to get them sexed, so what many of us would do is buy 8 unsexed juveniles of each, hope for 50% females and rehome the extra males as they mature.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

Also what kind of bottom feeders should I get? I am kind of looking for something that might eat the fry if I decide to let the females spit in the tank. I am thinking something that doesn't get to big. I am thinking loaches or maybe catfish, but I want a catfish that doesnt grow too big, maybe 3-4" at the most. Any suggestions on that as well?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

A group of 5 Synodontis lucipinnis.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

ok so if I got a group of 5 Syno's and they spawn will they eat there own spawn?


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

Also besides the yellow lab is there another fish I could possibly add?


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

or even a replacement for the Rusty the girlfriend wasnt really a fan so what other Mbuna is red that might work?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Maybe if you switch your focus fish to a more feisty afra? The closest to red is estherae. And then the perlmutt will work too.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

So go Pearlmutt, Estherae and The Yellow labs or what other fish?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

How about Jalo Reef (afra), perlmutt and estherae?


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

I do like that combination. I just have to see if I can get these online.  its so hard to order fish online up here in Canada.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Dave's will ship to Canada.


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## ryencok3 (Feb 25, 2012)

Ya but Daves want to ship them to Calgary airport, which is about a 3hour drive from where I live, and they are going to charge me about $200 for the freight. So I dont want to go that route as I cant drive three hours and then drive three more back and hope that the fish are still alive. I am looking at going through Spencer Jack but his selection isnt huge on the Africans or Tangs.


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