# Salvini and Convict cross breeding?



## RobD213

A couple of questions.

Firstly is this possible or common?

My new con an old salvini seem to have today dug a pit and are guarding it together?

If so has anyone had this before? What do the fry look like?

I have always kept singles of each species to minimise the chance of breeding in my tank so this could cause chaos. Serves me right for just having to snap up the beautiful con I saw I suppose.


----------



## xXGrEeNxTeRrOrXx

Rob,

I have never seen or heard of a Convict/Salvini cross. Obviously convicts can (and do) cross with many things, but salvini... I don't know. It will certainly be interesting to see if they do infact spawn fertile eggs. Keep us updated. Pics?


----------



## CiChLiD LoVeR128

Yep its definately possible

And yep I have heard of it just haven't seen any pics of fry! What are the sexes of the Convict and Salvini? It does sound like they are getting ready or already did spawn. Have their colors changed?


----------



## BlackShark11k

The question is, really, is there anything convicts can't cross with :lol: I've heard of con x jag, con x JD, con x RD, and con x midas as well as con x other rocio's or whatever crazy genus they're in now :lol:


----------



## gage

*** also heard of con x Firemouth, Con x Texas, and Con x Carpintis :lol:


----------



## chrispyweld

Dude I'm not a big fan of hybrids but I may pay for shipping for some of those.


----------



## RobD213

Well as an update, they have continued to dig their pit, and are defending it fiercely. Its funny watching my oscar (10 inches) trying to investigate what they are doing and a 4 inch con and 3 inch sal flareing and defending it.


----------



## gage

are you sure they dont have eggs? even with convicts, i dont find they act like this until they are actually defending something,


----------



## Hrafen

I'm betting they have eggs in there. I am also betting the Oscar will soon be getting serious grief until he learns to be elsewhere. I am not a fan of hybrids, but you have two adults who on fry care are not going to take any prisoners, and can in all probability deal with the O.


----------



## RobD213

Well as an update, I had a rescape in the tank and added some pots and today have seen eggs in the pot that they have been guarding for days now. The con is guarding the entrance while the Salvini is fanning the eggs constantly.

This is my firts experience of breeding in this tank, as I said I had always tried to keep away from breeding pairs to avoid trouble but I stupidly decided to add the con  :lol:

Anyway, any tips or what I should expect will be greatly appreciated, Ill get some pics up later on today.

Rob


----------



## cole

This is an interesting thread. My only advice would be to pull the male and let the female do her thing if you want be sure they have the best chances. I find the male cichlids are most likely to be the demise of young fry. I would expect if you removed him the female would be even more intent on safe gaurding the wrigglers.



gage said:


> I've also heard of con x Firemouth, Con x Texas, and Con x Carpintis :lol:


Thats interesting to hear. I have a female green texas (carpintis Escondido) thats about 4.5" who is desperatley trying to get the attention of my leucistic HRP I have in with her. She has turned into her breeding colors, is digging pits and is flaring gills swimming side by side the HRP.

My 4.5" tetracanthus is also courting my 6" female EBJD right now, but not being as cozy as the carpintis and HRP in the other tank.

I would echo the group and just say anything is possible with these Convicts, and surely most CAs would likely pair off with them.

Can't wait to see what you come up with Rob.

Good luck
:thumb: 
Cole~


----------



## RobD213

I did consider removing the male, however I have no where for him to go at the moment and I think I'd rather let nature take its course. One option would be to use a divider as they have spawned at one far side of the tank?

It would be interesting to see what the fry are like and if I get any free swimming I may set up a small fry tank to grow some out. We'll see what happens anyway.

What should i be looking for in the eggs to see if they are ferlised etc. and how long before they are likely to htach.


----------



## cole

I would say they would hatch between 48 - 72 hours after being laid. Usually they will hatch quicker in warmer water. I get my fastest hatch times and fry growth rates in water between 82-84 degrees.

What you want to look for in the eggs is a creamy yellow color, with a light grey center. The light grey is the wriggler developing inside the egg. White is a sign of two different things. If its white from the inside out, its unfertilised. If its white on the outside, and kind of mossy looking, its fungus. Usually if the water quality is good and the female is fanning eggs, you wont have fungus issues. I would imagine with them being different species, you may likely find some that were not properly fertilised...but who knows really.

Very excited for you man.

Cole~


----------



## RobD213

Well the eggs are now a creamy colour with a ditinct dark spot in the middle, the Salvini is still constantly fanning them, the con guarding the entrance to the pot and no one else is going near them. A few went white but seem to have dropped of now. Quite exciting all in all.

Still to decide what to do if and when they hatch.

Opinions?


----------



## illy-d

grow em up a bit to see what they look like... probably better not to market them though.


----------



## cage623

Had a con and a sal that were together for a few years. On two different occations in the first year they tried to mate. The pair never produced viable fry though. So it sounds like you will have more luck than I had. Keep us updated.


----------



## RobD213

Todays Update.

I have no idea what is going on. The eggs are all gone, they were there this morning, gone when I got in from work. The sal is furiously guarding a pit but it is at the back behind a rok so I cant see what if anything is going on there, the con seems to be on lookout duty.

Anyone hazard a guess or want to tell me whats going on and what to expect next?


----------



## bernie comeau

The eggs have hatched and they have moved the wrigglers to the pit. In 3 -7 days, if all goes well, they will have free swimming fry which they will tend and continue to defend.

If something goes wrong, you'll probably be able to tell as their likely to blame each other :lol:, have a scrap and possibly break up, at least temporarily.

The sal is obviously the feamle and the con the male. Based on your description, they apear to be doing their jobs. Once the fry are free-swimming, the male may become just as involved in caring for the fry and the female may be just as involved in defending the outer perimeter of their territory. I do not beleive it would really be wise to remove the male in a community situation or setting.

Since they are young fish and their first time, bear in mind they may or may not hold on to fry for very long.


----------



## Big Vine

Good luck with the spawn...I'm very curious to see what a 'convini' looks like.
BV


----------



## RobD213

bernie comeau said:


> The sal is obviously the feamle and the con the male.


Definately, I should get some pics up of the parents at some point



> I do not beleive it would really be wise to remove the male in a community situation or setting.


Hadnt planned on it and dont have the room anyway, ill just let them see what happens


----------



## RobD213

Big Vine said:


> Good luck with the spawn...I'm very curious to see what a 'convini' looks like.
> BV


Me too.......or a Salvict.....doesnt have the same ring to it does it.......


----------



## RobD213

Todays Update: Ill let the pics do the talking

Dad and Mum










Mum









Mum and the wrigglers back in the pot

















My oscar who is getting hassled by both of them everytime he goes near them :lol:


----------



## xXGrEeNxTeRrOrXx

Awesome pics man. I too want to see the look of a Convini!


----------



## Big Vine

Awesome...nice pics/fish! :thumb: 
BV


----------



## RobD213

I have checked again today, and I would guess there are around 100 wrigglers, looks like a few less than a couple of days ago but they are starting to show some shape now, you can see the tail quite clearly.

I really need some help as too what to do with the fry, id love to see what they grow into but have no experience in growing out fry, i have a spare 10 gal hex tank which could be used, I was thinking maybe yphon out a few and see what happens.

Anyone any other ideas? Tips etc....


----------



## RobD213

ok so I have had free swimming fry for the last 3 days now, there seem to be around 100 left, the parents are doing there best to keep them together but i really cant see any making it longer term in there.

I want to grow out a few to see what they look like so am goint to set up a fry tank. So I have some questions.

Should i remove them all, or just a few? Is crushed flakes the best for them? I was thinking of syphoning them out rather than netting, any problems with this? Also any other tips would be great..
Rob


----------



## bernie comeau

Siphoning out, unless they are in a column swimming in open space, would be the easiest.

Crushed flake or pellet ground into a powder is fine. Brine shrimp are great to feed to fry but are not really nessesary. I like feeding mashed frozen fish or shrimp but one has to be carefull of excessive uneaten, unremoved food , if your fry tank is not bare-bottom.

I have read of other reports of sal X con cross and the resulting fry took after the convict side and exhibited very little that suggested it even had a sal parent. Can't recall which parent was which, but it might be different everytime, depending on the individual parents (?). It will be interesting to see what your fry look like.


----------



## css virginia

I have had my male Pink Convict spawn with the female Salvini...eggs were laid on the vertical rock and hatched-but none survived.  here is a couple of pics...I had for a temp.-time-just some gravel--now sand.


----------



## Alistriwen

Are you in London England or Ontario?  I'd love to grab some of the fry off you but your location would make a big difference .


----------



## RobD213

Alistriwen said:


> Are you in London England or Ontario?  I'd love to grab some of the fry off you but your location would make a big difference .


Im in the proper London  :lol: UK.

I dont think i'd be up for getting another hybrid out into the hobby though if Im honest anyway. Unless this became the next flwer horn and made me rich :lol: :lol:


----------



## BlackShark11k

Can't wait to see how these guys turn out...  :thumb:


----------



## RobD213

Okay, glad i took some out as there are none left in the 150. I have them in a 5 gal fry only tank, a few more questions.

How often should i feed?

I have nothing but a piece of driftwood, a heater and a small air stone in there, how often should i change the water and how much?

Cheers


----------



## xXGrEeNxTeRrOrXx

I don't have a whole lot of experience raising fry, but when I made my hybrids  (texas x con) I fed the fry twice a day. If I could have done it three times a day I would have, but its difficult working a full time job with a commute. Anyway, like bernie said crushed flake works fine. Hopefully some will be good looking! Good luck.


----------



## marge618

illy-d said:


> grow em up a bit to see what they look like... probably better not to market them though.


Don't know what to say here. Except extremely important not to market them.
Later,
Marge


----------



## RobD213

marge618 said:


> illy-d said:
> 
> 
> 
> grow em up a bit to see what they look like... probably better not to market them though.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know what to say here. Except extremely important not to market them.
> Later,
> Marge
Click to expand...

Then dont say anything, *** said countless times I wont let them get into the hobby :roll:


----------



## gage

definitely update on these fry, im interested to see what they will turn out like.

hes got a point marge618, he did say he wont, so why you repeat it i dont know :?


----------



## cage623

I can't wait to see the pics of these. I had a con and sal that paired off but they never were able to produce fry that made it.


----------



## Hairback357

I have a Pink Convict female who has paired with my Texas Cichlid. The frye hatched 3 days ago. I am in the same boat of not being real sure as to how to proceed. I partitioned the tank off because things got a little crazy when the eggs were laid. I guess I will just wing it. LOL

I am curious as to what a Texas X Convict will look like. A Salvini X Convict would be very interesting as well.


----------



## bernie comeau

There is a couple pictures of a convict X salvini cross in this thread from MFK. The cross could end up looking something like this female "convini":
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94680


----------



## CiChLiD LoVeR128

I dont think that one looks that great to be honest! 

In fact I dont think any hybrids look that great! But I know you weren't meaning for this to happen Rob!! And I know its not your fault!!


----------



## marge618

artemis1 said:


> The question is, really, is there anything convicts can't cross with :lol: I've heard of con x jag, con x JD, con x RD, and con x midas as well as con x other rocio's or whatever crazy genus they're in now :lol:


I can see the humor in this myself, knowing how cons proliferate. However, when you think about crossbreeding the results aren't really very funny. Do you really want to encourage con-combination cichlids? How are you going to keep these crosses out of the hobby?

FYI: I too keep cons...but make sure their fry have 2 con parents.

Later


----------



## RobD213

> However, when you think about crossbreeding the results aren't really very funny.


Not funny, no, but no one is laughing about hybrids in the hobby, anyway just because you dont like them doesnt mean others dont, take the flower horn for example.



> Do you really want to encourage con-combination cichlids? How are you going to keep these crosses out of the hobby?


No and Im not advocating this in the slightest.



> FYI: I too keep cons...but make sure their fry have 2 con parents.
> 
> Later


So what? i dont, big deal, I only keep one of each species as I dont generally try for breeding pairs as they can cause havoc in a tank, dont patronise me by saying I should have had a female con.

Please stay out of this post, its not a hybrid debate and I dont want it to become one. Its just a post about something that has happened in my tank and i thought others maybe interested, which they clearly were as I have had a fair few replies, and not one bar yours negative.

As for how will i keep them out of the hobby?? I reply with another question, how will they get on their own from my tank out to others tank or to the lfs? If there is a way which I have over looked then i will clearly address this, should i put a lock on the tank and make sure the car keys are always kept out of reach of the fry? Kind of reminds me of a cartoon, with a million con/sal fry under one long trench coat, trying to look inconspicuous.


----------



## CiChLiD LoVeR128

I agree with Rob! He has mentioned this OVER and OVER again that he isn't going to release them into the hobby! :roll: Why are you still asking this? Its clearly obvious that he isn't happy that they cross bred but they did! It happens! Its clear that it wasn't intentional!


----------



## Big Vine

Let's please not turn this into a huge hybrid debate...or is it too late already? :wink: 
Rob says he's not putting the hybrids out into the hobby, and he has also stated he does not want _his_ thread to turn into a convoluted mess (debate about hybrids). Everyone needs to respect that.

Okay, let's move on...
BV


----------



## gage

marge618 said:


> artemis1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is, really, is there anything convicts can't cross with :lol: I've heard of con x jag, con x JD, con x RD, and con x midas as well as con x other rocio's or whatever crazy genus they're in now :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I can see the humor in this myself, knowing how cons proliferate. However, when you think about crossbreeding the results aren't really very funny. Do you really want to encourage con-combination cichlids? How are you going to keep these crosses out of the hobby?
> 
> FYI: I too keep cons...but make sure their fry have 2 con parents.
> 
> Later
Click to expand...

buddy, the guy made a joke, no need to get so up tight :? again, it is very obvious he didnt breed them on purpose, and i personally dont wanna listen to someone continuously b**** about it.

i hope you get some nice looking fry when they grow up at least.


----------



## redhotwheel98

would love to see pic of them


----------



## RobD213

Glad there are still people interested.

The latest update is I have about 10 fry left, they havnt been doing to well, mainly I would imagine as this is my first time trying to raise fry and dont really know what im doing.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I currently have them in a 5 gal with a heater and air stone and am changing around 20% of the water every 2 days, and feeding a small amount of crushed flake once a day.

Rob


----------



## Hairback357

Mine are still wiggling. I guess I will try just letting the parents take care of them or maybe take some and see which ones do better.


----------



## RobD213

Well after about 3 weeks, I have 5 of the fry left in the 5 Gal which seem to be doing well, havnt lost any more for a week or so now. How long will it be until they actually start to resemble fish rather than tadpoles?

In the big tank the Sal and con have decided to give it another go. Eggs in the same place again but this time I would guess there are double the amount, I would estimate about 400 this time. Im going to leave them in there, even if this does make the tank a bit of a warzone for a couple of weeks.


----------



## cole

RobD213 said:


> Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I currently have them in a 5 gal with a heater and air stone and am changing around 20% of the water every 2 days, and feeding a small amount of crushed flake once a day.
> Rob


If you have them isolated and the parents are not raising them, live hatched baby brine shrimp is your best choice for fast growth rates. If you don't have the time to hatch your own, you can try the hikari frozen baby brine shrimp. I also found my fry will take crushed tropical color granuales within the first week of freeswimming.



RobD213 said:


> How long will it be until they actually start to resemble fish rather than tadpoles?


Depending on water temps, water changes and amount of feedings I would estimate about 3-5 weeks. Thats usually when they start putting on size and start coloring up for me. My fry seem to like water temps warmer, like 80 - 85 degrees. They seem to grow twice as fast in warmer water then in the 70's. Feedings can be increased to 4-6 times a day as long as you are getting the water changes in.

Dude, I really can't wait to see what these lil buggers look like. Good luck...and congrats on the new spawn! :thumb:

Cole~


----------



## RobD213

Well the new spawn are no freee swimming, they look bigger than the last lot to me for some reason.

All seem healthy, there are about 100 free swimming fry, im going to leave all of these ones in the tank this time and see what happens.

The four remaining in the grow out all seems to be fine although they wont touch the BBS i tried feeding them.


----------



## hvanantwerp

I have had a similar surprise, got home from work last night and there low and behold were around 100 fry swimming around.

This is from a Convict cross with Jack dempsey, now this was not planned, I tend to do the same as you to avoid the breeding factor from moving into the tank but wow.

am I excited? yes indeed to see what comes out when they start growing etc...

The Jack dempsey is the male so I was wondering, would that have an impact on what they will look like?

What update do you have on your batch?


----------



## RobD213

Well it seems I havent been on this site for nearly 3 months now very busy with work. I have 2 left which are coming up for an inch long. Ill see if I can get some picture up later, they havent really coloured yet but so far have the shape of the salvini.


----------



## Mark K

So, did he put them out in the world?

:roll: :roll: :roll:


----------

