# Make my Bolivian Ram sexing thread a sticky!!?? Please vote!



## blairo1

*Make it a sticky!!!???*​
YES!!5983.10%NO!!1216.90%


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## blairo1

Ok guys and gals, so I've recieved a nice number of votes FOR this article in this short space of time, so that's pretty cool.

PLEASE NOTE!!!!

I am no longer trying to get this sticky'd. I've had a back and forth with Dave (mod) and he's pointed me in the right direction.

So?!

I will be submitting my sexing thread, as well as a few other pics that I think would make a nice addition to the Profiles, in the hope that THIS thread has shown that it would be a useful addition to the Profiles section.

So please continue to vote YES or NO, on the understanding that I will be using this thread to show the popularity (or not) of the article to encourage those in power to add it to the profiles, NOT to sticky it.

Thank you again for all of your votes so far and your consideration of this matter. I want it to be absolutely crystal clear that this was not intended in any way, shape or form as a bash on this site or any of it's mods/members.

Blair.

---------------------------------------

Ok,

Let me try and help you out in determining sex. Take into account the only real way of knowing is venting them or seeing them spawn, the other details I will show you are just generalisations of what you would expect in differences between the sexes....

First up, ventrical differences: 
_click to enlarge:_



Notice how the males tapers back and is considerably smaller whereas the females points more downwards and is visibly fatter.

You can also see the difference in the length and shape of the pelvic fins, although this is not a sure-fire way of telling it can be an indicator.

Picture A. is of a female, I'm pointing this out first as you can see here that the females dorsal looks similar to what one would expect from a male:

You can clearly see her extended ray on the dorsal fin. So I'm not saying this is a way to sex them. You can see for yourself that females too can express these predominantly male characteristics.

Picture B. is also of a female:

Here too you can see the extended pelvic fins that you could expect on a male....

Point made?

Now onto the comparisons (generalisations, whatever you want to call it.)
With that said, picture C. is of a male - you can clearly see the extended 3rd and 4th rays on his dorsal fin:


Picture D. shows a "typical" female dorsal fin, you can see the progressive slope that I with no particular spine elongated.


Picture E. shows a "typical" female head shot. You can see it is more rounded when compared to Picture F.


Picture F. is the male head shot:


Pic G. showing the extended rays on the Males tail fin:


Pic H. shows the "typical" female tail and as you can see, even they can possess slightly extended rays:


Like I said other than venting there is no guaranteed way of knowing, however the differences you can see above (however slight) can help.

Blair


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128

Should definately be made into a sticky!! :thumb: Come on mods!!! :x


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## Dutch Dude

Off course a sticky,....in the last couple of months Blair and some others had to dig up the "old" discussions with this info time after time after time! Lately there is much interest in the Bolivians and in fact they make a good specie for people new in the hobby or for people who wants a friendly small cichlid appropriate for the community tank or in a specie only or planted tank. New owners of Bolivians often have problems with determine the sex of the fish. Blair his post has proven to be very useful!!! This post should be a sticky and in fact it's surprising that it isn't already! So mods,...pleas put it where it belongs,.....with the sticky! 

Ruurd


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## blairo1

Thanks guys .

I appreciate the votes so far, please, keep 'em coming!!


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## BlackShark11k

Defianetly a sticky. I really never knew, i just guessed... 
PS i Guess: Sticky! Sticky! Sticky! I voted yes by the way!


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## blairo1

:lol: I want to know who voted NO, what are your reasons?


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## blairo1

Oh yeah and I want to make a point, I'm not bashing on any mods here, that's not what I want this to be about, it's purely an attempt to get it stickied so it's there to help people indefinately....

That is all I want.


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## straitjacketstar

Stickify!!! :thumb:


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## Miguel

I voted yes. This should be stickied if there is no forum for sexing Cichlids.


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128

> Oh yeah and I want to make a point, I'm not bashing on any mods here, that's not what I want this to be about, it's purely an attempt to get it stickied so it's there to help people indefinately....
> 
> That is all I want.


Oh I know I just was being goofy and added that last part to the message! :lol: I wasnt mad!


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## blairo1

Two votes for no without reason, why is that.....

I think we may have some lurking mods/admin who don't want to deal with the administrative work :lol: :lol: :lol:.....



Seriously, how can you NOT want a thread that clearly shows how to sex a particular fish, stickied. Are you against the helping of others? Or just a grumpy old git :lol:.

Seriously, I want reasons WHY if you say no, that's why I put it there, so that people who don't think it should can say so, and explain why......

If you can't explain your reason for voting NO (ie I'm sure that someone has voted no out of spite) then carry on, I can't be bothered with people like that anyway .


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## blairo1

Going well so far! Thanks for the votes guys and gals, I really appreciate the support and hope we can get this thing stickied to continue helping others!!!


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## macclellan

blairo1 said:


> Seriously, how can you NOT want a thread that clearly shows how to sex a particular fish, stickied. Are you against the helping of others? Or just a grumpy old git :lol:.


I can think of plenty of reasons why not. One being that if sexing every fish were stickied, There would be dozens of stickies here in SA discussion. A better idea might be a sticky about sexing SA cichlids in general, with links to appropriate species articles.

Have you contacted the mods about this?

I'd suggest that you try and get your info added to the species article. That is a more appropriate place for this kind of info that won't clutter up the forum.


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## blairo1

:lol: Mainly because I've contacted the Admin, on at least two occasions and didn't even get a response.

I would much rather have it added to the species article, but as I said, no one came back to me on it, so next best thing is to have it as a sticky. I can appreciate that there COULD be hundreds of stickies, but how many people have actually gone to the effort that I went to, to get clear, easy to distinguish shots like these, to explain how to sex their fish etc......

Seriously, I get what you're saying, but not everyone is going to be submitting sexing threads for stickying because let's face it, most people don't go that far with it, tending to explain it verbally..........Not only that but why would they want to sticky a thread unless it had decent pics and explanations to go with it, not every tom dick and harry is going to do that.

I like the idea of a Sexing SA's sticky with links off to my document, that could work equally well. As long as it's put somewhere that people can find easily then I don't care, seriously, I'm not one to work out the logistics of it, I just want this info put on the web because it's obviously needed quite frequently.

If you got asked as many times as I do how to sex these increasingly popular fish and you'd gone to the effort to make a post like I did, wouldn't you be a little pissed off that it wasn't being used to it's potential.....

Think about that for a minute .


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## macclellan

Points taken. 

For what it is worth, I voted "yes" yesterday.


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## blairo1

:lol: Thanks bud, I appreciate your input, you made a point which is one I had already thought of.....

That's why I gave the NO option, so I could see what issues other might find with it.

I'm not stupid so I can understand that not every thing like this could be made into a sticky, as you said, it would clutter up the forum. Well it's more a case of having to scroll down a shedload just to get to the latest topics.......

But like I said, the logistics of it can be worked out as to where it goes, I just want the thing up there!!!! :lol:

:thumb:


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## Beats

Of course it should be a sticky!! :thumb: 
Bolivian Rams can be very hard to sex, and without Blairs (blairo1) info and photos, I would've never been able to tell male from female!! 
AND, I know that I'm not the only one!!
Definately a sticky!! :thumb:


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## Dave

How about submitting an article? I honestly think this topic is too specific to warrant a sticky.


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## blairo1

I'm open to that Dave, who do I submit it to though, because so far I've had no luck!!


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## blairo1

Ok guys and gals, so I've recieved a nice number of votes FOR this article in this short space of time, so that's pretty cool.

PLEASE NOTE!!!!

I am no longer trying to get this sticky'd. I've had a back and forth with Dave (mod) and he's pointed me in the right direction. :thumb:

So?!

I will be submitting my sexing thread, as well as a few other pics that I think would make a nice addition to the Profiles, in the hope that THIS thread has shown that it would be a useful addition to the Profiles section.

So please continue to vote YES or NO, on the understanding that I will be using this thread to show the popularity (or not) of the article to encourage those in power to add it to the profiles, NOT to sticky it.

Thank you again for all of your votes so far and your consideration of this matter. I want it to be absolutely crystal clear that this was not intended in any way, shape or form as a bash on this site or any of it's mods/members. I hope the mods took my little poke at them with the pinch of salt as intended .

Face it, you don't get anywhere bashing on the people who can help you....

 
Blair.


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## becadavies

YEY, i voted yes!! I dont have bolivian rams but i voted yes......

although wen i first got into tropicals i did have 4 red rams!! Not sure if their even related actually!!!
But wouldve been **** helpful to know if they were boys or girls!!

Im impressed wiv ur computar wizardry actually.....pics look great :thumb:

-So i just checked profiles and they are related- microgeophagus ramirezi... dont know wer red ram came from


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## blairo1

Thanks Becca.

:lol: at wizardry.....


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## becadavies

Oh my Blair.  ...5.16am...well u beat me...only just thou!!


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## eric

Hi, I'm one of the admins on the site. Admittedly, the Discussion Board is not one of my main responsibilities. However, I keep only South Americans, so I really do like this thread and this folder! 

I would like to see this post become more than a sticky, I would like to see it become an article and go into the Library. The Library actually get more interest than the Discussion Board, especially for the beginning hobbyist. Besides, stickies don't work well for content.

Blair, please let me know if you would like to work with another of our admins to make this an article. PM works best.


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## blairo1

Thanks Eric.

I will be contacting you very shortly in regards to this, I'm just working a few things out with Ruurd (Dutch Dude) and once I know where we are with that I'll get right on with it. I may have a few questions to PM you re how you'd like this done but I'll get everything prepared first.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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## BlackShark11k

Yeah, Blairo1, when it does get stickied, tell me how to do it, 'cause my thread in the general aquaria discussion needs to get stickied :x


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## blairo1

:lol: No I'm not after having it stickied, I'm working with Ruurd on something (he's a great expert on Bolivians by the way) and I will be working shortly with one of the mods to create an article that will, hopfully, be of high enough calibre to grace the Profiles section of C-F.....

 That would be awesome!!

You're thread's still alive yo! Chill


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## Fisherman451

Hi all I am hoping someone can confirm my hopes that these 2 are in fact a pair...bought from LFS a couple of days ago and starting to colour up nicely already

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1258931192&size=l


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## sasquatch-exists

Can a male show characteristics of a female? (in the pelvic, dorsal, and anal fins) 
Does a female have a more rounded anal fin than a male typically?

BTW: I love the thread, you have done an excellent job! :thumb:


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## Dutch Dude

He Blair! bud!,...your still alive! :wink: Thats a good thing to start with  Long time since we "spoke". Good to see you back on the board!

Abouth the sexing thing,....of course it should be added on the site as a sticky or even better in the Bolivian profile!!! Hard to belive it still isn't there and unbelievable it takes such an effort to get it on here! How long did it take,...3 years or so? So mods,.....when do you finaly make it a sticky or add it to the profiles?

Your friend,

Ruurd


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## Dutch Dude

by the way,....how do I vote???


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## dwarfpike

*DD* - You probably already voted since the thread is two and a half years old now. You should see either a submit vote, or the results above your post on this page.


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## Dutch Dude

Aaaah,...oooh ooops!  Didn't seen the post was that old! Just skipped by and responded. 

Thanks Dwarfpike! Your not only a walking breathing living encyclopedia (sometimes play cheat if it comes to Guianacara :wink: ) but you are defenately the brightest of the two of us. :wink:

Later,...need to feed the :fish:


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## Dutch Dude

> Can a male show characteristics of a female? (in the pelvic, dorsal, and anal fins)
> Does a female have a more rounded anal fin than a male typically?


Yes sub dominant males and dominant females can look the same certainly at a young age (below 10 months of age). It is the vent that reveals if it is a male or a female. 
Adult females have indeed a rounder anal fin. The older the fish become the clearer the gender differences are. With fish younger as 6 months sexing is very hard especialy if they are skinny like most of the fish in the lfs are.

Ruurd


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## Toby_H

Cichlid Forum doesn't really make "Stickies"...

If you notice, there aren't any stickies in this folder. Therefore I do not support one species of fish having a sexing stickie in a folder that covers such a large range of fish...

But I do think you have wonderful information on Rams that many of us have benefitted from. I think you would be a great canidate to write an article for them that could be included into their profile or placed in our Library...


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## sasquatch-exists

*Dutch Dude* can i send you a pic of my fish so you can help me sex them?


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## Dutch Dude

Hi there,

This post is brought up by sasquatch-exists to discus differences between male and female. It is a bit confusing dough but it is defenately NOT abouth the poll any more.

sasquatch-exists, maybe it is best to make a new post with your question or even better,....ask your question in the BRC post and let the mods delete this one or lock the old post. I think it is to confusing and obvious not only for me :wink: Of course I want to give sexing a shot and done it before. It is no guarantee becouse it can be hard from just a pic. I like to see an overall clear shot of the fish and a clear shot of the vent. You can send it by PM but maybe it is nice to post it on the board. :thumb:

Ruurd


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## sasquatch-exists

Ok I'll start a new post. :wink: 
Sorry about the confusion.


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## mammafishy

Hi everyone!

I just joined your forum so I could vote *YES *on making this a sticky. What wonderful pictures!!! I just got my first aquarium - a 75 gallon tank in June and my first cichlid (Red Bolivian Ram) this week. It is my favorite fish so far. I have another on order so I will have a pair. I LOVE ANYTHING FISHY! :fish:

Thanks to all that voted yes to save this as a sticky!!
mammafishy


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## gage

lol this post was started in may 2007...


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## mammafishy

Sorry, I see that now


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## swordgecko

THANK YOU!!! you helped me determin if i need one more male or one more female!!! Thanks again


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## Brenden09

It should not be a sticky. As much as your evidence suggests that you're correct. Scientifically its wrong. It seems you've only studied a couple of specimens, and a couple does not represent the whole. While it is a nice theory of sexing B.R's. It's not fool proof nor can it be proven to sex all B.R's due to the wide variety of strands that may be sold in LFS. Others may not own the same strains that you have photographed. So I voted no.


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## SOUPNAZZI

12 votes for no hmm

it should be stickied.. good information for newbies like me


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## Number6

This is the thread that never ends... yes it goes on and on my friend... some people started replying to it not knowing when it began, and we'll all continue posting on it just because...

This is the thread that never ends... yes it goes on and on my friend... some people started replying to it not knowing when it began, and we'll all continue posting on it because...

(singing loudly to the tune of "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_That_Never_Ends" )

Sorry folks but stickies about a specific species just isn't the way for this information to be seen. 
Articles are the ideal since the articles get the most traffic by far! 
Blair contributed one such article... we would welcome more from anyone willing to do the research and get published! 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m ... pinosa.php

Thanks in advance!


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