# Lake Tanganyika doc



## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

This was v good i thought, think its that Star Trek guy narrating 8)


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

by the way look out for the 2 Giborosa in part 2....tho i cant quite count stripes.....love to see more actual real footage

comments please


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

I have that video somewhere... "Jewel of the Rift" if I recall. It has been a while since I watched it but I don't remember seeing any cyphos in it? Are you referring to the scene where the imposter fish moves in and eats the scales off the fish it is mimicking?


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

I watched all four parts and did not see any fronts either but i did see where a front look a like was preying on what appeared to be scales of that other fish that looks like front juvies ? Sorry i cant remember its name, abbrv. tret or trets , something like that. It is Avery Brooks narrating, he played in spencer for hire long time ago and also more recently star trek deep space nine, he has a good voice like james earl jones . Patrick Stewart would have a great voice for documentaries, he is another star trek actor. Just no William Shatner please LOL.


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

Hi Guys,

Yes im sure there are two small Fronts in part 2. See link below...see if im wrong but about half way through you will see two giant Emporer Cichlids defending their young,, justt before the turtle comes intoo view onn the leftt side of the screen are two Giberosa imm sure.....see if imm wrong


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## gordonrp (Mar 23, 2005)

"not as adorable as the otter" - video

hrm don't know about that, some of these fish are real characters..


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

Im pretty sure its not a front. I think its a neolamp. tret. see the profile and since they get 6 or so inches it would be easy to think they are fronts, especially juvies. I had someone on another site get so excited in a lfs bought 20 of them thinking the fish was miss labeled fronts for 5.99 LOL. He was not too happy. LOL. I noticed that the fronts first black stripe (not counting eye) was located at or behind the ventral fins not infront of them like the trets. hOpe this helps.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1639

It really looks alot like a juvie frontosa.

Then check out the frontosa. Look at the last pic in the drop down pics (bottom juvie pic) looks almost identical. Notice where the stripe is located though, the ventral fin is smack in the center of the black stripe where the trets is infront of the fin.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1515

CG


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## Afishionado (Jun 6, 2006)

The waters in which all of the 'Jewel of the Rift' footage was shot would be a bit shallow for Fronts I think. On that basis alone I would guess they must be trets. Don't quote me though :lol:

PS: isn't the narrator the guy who did Darth Vader's voice in the Star Wars movies?


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

HIi

Well thats really interesting guys...but I always thought those trets were longer and thinnir in the body than fronts.....it would be real nice to see a doc with actual footage of real live big old Fronts in the deep> Does anybody know of one?

And no the guy who did Darth Vader was James Earl Jones


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## Afishionado (Jun 6, 2006)

karatejo said:


> ... And no the guy who did Darth Vader was James Earl Jones


I stand corrected. 



karatejo said:


> it would be real nice to see a doc with actual footage of real live big old Fronts in the deep


That would be really cool. I can think of quite a few challenges to getting such footage, but hopefully someone has done it.


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

I saw some still shots of divers with a cage full of fish (couldnt see if they were fronts or not). I understand they net the fish extremely deep then put them in big net cages and tie it off at various points going up to the surface to decompress (like scuba divers have to hang out at certain depths to equalize and release gasses etc...). I think thats why there are very few pics of fronts just swimming around, they live deep, very deep.


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

The only matter I donâ€™t agree with in this documentary is the narratorâ€™s assertion that all life evolved in Lake Tanganyika independently from the Ocean because.... "Life there has lived and evolved under similar conditions". There are ocean like shells in the lake including crabs that would not look out of place in the sea and even its own type of sardines?....If a creature evolves into something resembling a crab then one might say that it looks like a crab....but it cannot be a crab.....similarly pretty shells cannot therefore be shells......and what of the sardines?
As the Lake has a fairly high salt and mineral content and a fairly high PH...It is therefore my assertion that the lake was indeed once connected to the ocean even via maybe a small river? This may have been many thousands or even millions of years ago...so therefore we could not argue that it is not at least possible? The lake apparently has silt deposits of up to 3 miles thick! What is to say in some dark depths do not lurk the hidden mouths of some ancient caves that were once connected to the seaâ€¦.as is the case in in Yucatan Mexico? This would certainly explain how many types of marine resembling animals got into the lake in the first place and indeed arenâ€™t Cichlids supposed to be related to sea fishes? Animals evolving into identical forms from completely independent sources on one scale would be a miracle in itself but how several species are supposed to have evolved into the same animal types is quite frankly impossible absurd and against the very laws of evolution...animals evolve always from a common source of ancestry...animals rarely evolve identical forms on opposite sides of the planet from completely independent sources, which is why rare and strange animal types in areas such as Australia and Madagascar have animals indigenous to those areas because they evolved in isolation...if a lake had been isolated for so long such as Tanganyika then I would not expect to see similar life forms there that resemble ocean animals....

Comments please


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

I dont agree. I cant back up my thoughts with science or anything, just my opinion. There are many fresh water animals that resemble ocean dwelling animals and their histories are strictly fresh water, eels, fresh water crusteans like crawfish etc.., turtles etc.. Im sure people have taken core samples from the bottom of that lake and have determined through those whether or not it was ever connected to the sea by fossilized remains etc. THe yukatan penisula is also made of sandstone so that explains its cave systems etc.. The rift lakes are in the middle of the continent not near the coastline so that also would make it hard to be connected to the ocean unless your referring to millions and millions of years ago after pangea started to split up and then the life from back then would not be the same life as what they are looking at now in the lake etc... Dont know if the lake was even there then, i dont think it was.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

> Animals evolving into identical forms from completely independent sources on one scale would be a miracle in itself but how several species are supposed to have evolved into the same animal types is quite frankly impossible absurd and against the very laws of evolution...animals evolve always from a common source of ancestry...animals rarely evolve identical forms on opposite sides of the planet from completely independent sources,


Two words for you bud.... convergent evolution..... Fingerprints are a brilliant example of this. It's certainly not against any laws of evolution - evolution favours a successful mutation/adaptation and in similar environments, there will be similar, if not identical solutions.

I think you'd find George Barlows book - The Cichlid Fishes: Natures Grand Experiment, fascinating. In it he discusses how the land masses moved and naturally during these events species migrate to areas that eventually become cut off, how they then went on to evolve and the similarities and differences between them.

http://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/barlow/book.html

It really is a fantastic book and sounds like you might enjoy it (well written as a "breaking in" book).

:thumb:


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## renegade545 (Jul 4, 2008)

Fronts have 6 or 7 full lines, where trets only have 5, plus the incomplete one at the head that only goes to the eye. I can understand a young tret being comfused with a young front, but a full grown Tret looks very different IMO.


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

renegade545 said:


> Fronts have 6 or 7 full lines, where trets only have 5, plus the incomplete one at the head that only goes to the eye. I can understand a young tret being comfused with a young front, but a full grown Tret looks very different IMO.


Yep, thats why the trets are also called 5 bar cichlids if im not mistaken. I noticed adults seem to have a more tubular body compared to fronts anyway, more mbuna like . Adults would be very hard to confuse with a adult frontosa, but juvies especially small juvies are a different story. Those would be easy for a inexperienced person to confuse.


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## GJx (Mar 13, 2003)

renegade545 wrote: 
Fronts have 6 or 7 full lines, where trets only have 5, plus the incomplete one at the head that only goes to the eye. I can understand a young tret being comfused with a young front, but a full grown Tret looks very different IMO.

Yep, thats why the trets are also called 5 bar cichlids if im not mistaken. I noticed adults seem to have a more tubular body compared to fronts anyway, more mbuna like . Adults would be very hard to confuse with a adult frontosa, but juvies especially small juvies are a different story. Those would be easy for a inexperienced person to confuse.

I admit that back years ago when Fronts were just catching on & they were starting to be in some of the larger pet stores, the ABOVE is why I paid so much less for 4 of my first Burundi. The people workig there just had no idea what the lil front fry were when they were in the tanks with the trets...... AND I TOK ADVANTAGE OF THAT! :roll: :fish:


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

Thanks for all the comments it certainly makes interesting disscusion....and *** ordered that
"Cichlid Fishes" book from amazon mate,, looks reall good and will look forward too reading that 

And thank youu Cichlidgirll for some great input =D>

Cheers


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