# New 4ft mbuna tank setup



## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Hi everyone.

Would like to share my recent mbuna setup with you all. Please feel free to give advice, criticism and comment. Im still new into cichlids so please don't hold back. I want to know what I'm not doing right, etc. And want to try get my tank to as close to perfection as I can, with your help.

My setup consists of.
4ft main tank with 3ft as sump. 
"Bean animal's" failsafe overflow. 
Sump divided into 5 compartments, including a refugium with plants. 
Return pump is rated at 5000lts/h, but taking head pressure into consideration, works out to around 2500-3000 lts/hour. Therefore at least 10 times turnover.
As a room divider, three faces of the tank is exposed.
5 meters of rgb LED strip lights arranged in 1m length paparallel with each other with controller. 
Two unique feature sandstone rocks for rockscape, with petrified tree trunk bits of rock. 
Pool filter sand substrate. Varies from 1.5 to 3inches deep.

I feel that there is not enough hiding places at the moment, might add to the overflow side of the tank, more sandstone creating more caves, etc.

My fish choices are not the best at the moment, because my LFS knows nothing about cichlids, myself also. But I have gone through the forum and done lots of research. Unfortunately I'm still useless at knowing how to id the fish.

Ok my selection I have in my tank at the moment is.
8x yellow labs, 1inch (some hybrid because of my ignorance, but thanks to this forum it shed some light on it)
6x demosoni, 1inch
1x socolofi, about 2inch
2x hongi, about 2inch
2x kenyi, 2inch (only recently found out these are the meanest mbuna to walk the earth... might have to take them back) 
1x elongtus or something like that. Not sure. 1.5inch
2x blue cobalts. About 2inch.
1x common pleco. 3inch. (I know it will outgrow the tank, but planning to transfer later to my koi pond)

I know I have a lot of different species in one tank, however, Im planning to rather overstock to kerb the aggression. Is it the right way of doing things?

Please give some advice on how to improve my tank. I really will appreciate it a lot!

Here are some pics. 













































Thanks! ! ;-)


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

The rock work is interesting but it doesn't seem to have many places for the fish to hide and feel secure. I made a rock pile for mine with lots of void space and multiple ways in and out and the use it all the time.


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Yeah, that is one thing I need to work on. Planning on adding to the left of the tank with more rock work. Currently there are a couple of caves, but not enough as you said for the fish to feel secure.

Thanks.


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## Kaenon (Dec 12, 2012)

I think it looks pretty sweet! Nice job!


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## Call_me_Tom (Feb 11, 2013)

I like it, if you plan to over stock then hiding places shouldn't be much of an issue. I don't dig seeing the piping though...that's just me.


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## Frank H (Mar 11, 2013)

That rock on the left is awesome! Keep us updated on how things are going


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## Frank H (Mar 11, 2013)

I want to know more about that led. Any links?


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

i love that rock on the left :drooling: i see in your other your little openings, are they connected under neath that piece? if so a dominant male will take the lot as his own! which leaves your others nowhere to escape aggression.

also pairs will not work as they are harem fish. 1xm/4f at a minimum dependent on species. apart from your demosoni keeping 6 will quickly become one. they are very aggressive toward each other. it is recommended by most here to start with about 16 dems till they are old enough to vent and keep the males down to say 2/3m males to 8/10f and best kept in these large groups to spread aggression between them.

also inmo you have far to many species for a 4ft tank!.... look for 3-4 compatible species with the correct m/f ratios to have a beaut tank that will be very enjoyable for you :thumb:


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Thanks guys!

Call_me_tom, I totally agree with you. At the time of set-up, I couldn't find any solutions for hiding the return outlets. Because my weir for the overflow being on the left, I didn't want my return outlet near it, for obvious reasons (water flow, etc.). I might shorten the outlets so they do not show as much, but there is not much options for hiding them in my tank at the moment  Please, if you have any ideas, I'm happy to try it 

Hi Frank H, the LEDs are the ones you can get on Ebay, etc. I got mine locally. mine are the waterproof version. 3528 RGB LED Strip light with controller,etc. Similar types are like http://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-Waterproof-m ... 0894573765

More info here: 
http://www.flexfireleds.com/pages/Compa ... -LEDs.html
http://www.led-lights.co.za/lumi-shop/w ... rip-light/

Not as bright as the T5, but much more economical.

Hi Ozman, thanks! both rocks was a lucky find outside our offices  actually wish i had a bigger tank, because there is a whole bunch of irregular shaped rocks. Haha, unfortunately the caves on the other rock are not connected. At the moment, the Kenyi (which i will be taking back to the LFS very soon) has "taken" the cave for his own...

I understand the dynamics when it comes to Dems... sadly, my LFS didn't have that quantity and I bought all of them already.  I will be trying to get more to get the ratios correct.

Yeah, 4ft is too small, but I can't go bigger  No space! Do you think my combination of species will not work? I know the Kenyi was a bad choice, but the others...? The hongi, socolofi, labs, dems, cobalts, and Elongatus (maybe Mbenji Brown sp) are all different colour variations. I am planning on going the route of overstocking to kerb the agression and will be trying to incorporate more rocks on the left for hiding places. Can it work with all the fish i will have? Max 25-30 fish... :-?


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

g-day tom, a 4ft tank depending overal dimensions (please post) is not too small for mbuna but not large enough for so many species inmo. you need to narrow down to 3-4 species and have larger ratios, depending on full grown size and compatibility.

have you checked out the species profile and cookie cutter on this site? sorry i don't know how to inbed, have a look it's easy to find through choices at the top of the page.


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

I used some waterproof strip LEDs (came on a reel like you're showing) and the condensation eventually corroded them. I ended up putting some inside clear tubing and sealing it with silicon. Hopefully yours are more waterproof than mine.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

hey tom, your double posting re the same thing basically. i just read your post in malawi cichlids. hey fair go people are willing to help you, but be fair to others that need help also.


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Ozman,

Tank dimensions are 1200 x 450 x 450mm.

Yeah, I did check out all the info on the Library and the Species Profile and it was very useful. Sadly the same cannot be said about my LFS....  Majority of my cichlids only got identified with the help of this forum.

I do have a tendency to bend the "rules" a bit :wink: and saw a couple of tanks on youtube that is overstocked but have various different species and it seems to work... I think the one tank even had the auratus, johanniis, dems, kenyis, and even other way more chilled species...all in one!!!

Ok, How about this?

8 x Yellow Labs 
5 x Demasoni
4 x Hongi
5 x Socolofi or Hara

All the above in their correct ratios, and considering they are fully mature, with enough hiding space, etc. Would it work?

Hi Yael, the top of my tank is almost fully enclosed with Perspex and the lights are well ventilated. 


heres some pic on my crude LED installation...


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Here's some photos on my whole installation.

The idea


The Sump build...


far right, my variation on the "Bean animal" failsafe plumbing.


The rock on the left was too high and couldn't fit into my tank... and was not stable... after hours of angle grinding the base off, here it is :dancing: 


Couldn't find "egg crates" so tiles should work... :dancing: 


Revised my plumbing... and another view of the rocks.


Busy fulling up the tank... no leaks  


Full tank with LEDs on to check how it looks. :thumb: 


Frame for canopy done :thumb:


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

inmo, go for yellow labs, ditch the demasoni as you have not read my post properly about them.
also hongi or haras as they are barred fish. choose one.
and socolfi.

just seen your update re your tank it looks awesome! by the way egg crate (tiles) is nor required to stack your rocks as long as they are seated on the bottom. :thumb:


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Thanks OZman!

Thought the Dems would only pick on similar colouring and barring. Didn't know all Barring...  But now I know. 

Ok, then it shall be..

Yellow Labs
Hongi
Socolofi
Cobalt?  

:thumb:


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

You've got a lot of work into that tank - specially for something 4'.

I'll tell you what I was told about tank size and occupants - no more than 3 species breeding groups with 1 male each species and his harem of females plus some bottom feeders if you want. That's about 12 - 15 fish total. If you're planning on doing all male, then crowding them more and choosing from species that don't get too big and aren't too aggressive can also work.


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Yeah, it is kind of stupid to go all out on a 4ft, but luckily I enjoy making stuff so it wasn't too bad. 

Oic... So to confirm.

1. If all male tank, then more than 15 fish can be kept in my tank?
2. If all male tank, more than 3 species in one tank ok?
3. Just for example... can i keep like 20 fish, all different colours and patterning, all male, all different species, i.e. one of each species (sorry, it does sound ridiculous...), then it can work?

I do apologize for my ignorance :roll: still a noob with cichlids


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## ratbones86 (Jun 29, 2012)

I love that rock man! What kind of rock is it?


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

Yes, an all male tank that size can deal with more than 15 but not a lot more and this depends on mature size of each fish. Avoiding look alike fish or more than one aggressive male of any species is how it's done, but it's still tricky and something you have to keep an eye on to make sure you don't end up with a bloodbath.

You should go through the species profiles and come up with a list - stay with the smaller, less aggressive fish. This isn't an easy tank to put together because making a mistake and including any females can really mess you up so that means only buying mature fish. There also should be all male tank setup lists for a 4' tank in the library files.


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Took out both the kenyi and the elongatus and have them in my refugium for now. Will be taking them back to the LFS tomorrow.

Figured something out today after observing the gang doing their own thing. It wasn't the kenyi thay was harassing the other, it was the elongatus!

I started to see that every time that dude swims near, everyone freaks out and scatters.

It was interesting to see how the other cichlids react with I took out the 2 kenyi and the elongatus. They immediately all livened up and colored up, fins up, etc.

Wow, cichlids are amazing. .. don't know why I never had them before.

Today I found one of my dems badly beaten up, such a sad day also... Trying to save the poor little bugger. .. hopefully he will survive the night:'(

Ok from all the suggestions and great advice, I've decided to go the 3 species route, except that I will be keeping the 2 cobalts and 2 Hongi I currently have in my tank. Going to get more dems as suggested and more socolofi.

The three main groups will be the labs, dems, and socolofi. Hopefully the hongi and cobalts will be ok in the future, if not, then I will have to trade them again.

I added some rock piles just to give some shelter and wow the dems seems to take over all the available ones. .. saw the main mofo dem chase off labs after labs... and every other fish that came nearby. They are mean, but full of character.


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

I wouldn't keep the extra fish - and with Dems, you need a higher ratio of females so keeping the extra fish means too many fish for the size of your tank.


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## Bowfront (Jun 3, 2013)

I just saw that you live in South Africa. How can you LFS not know anything about African Cichlids? You could probably go harvest them yourself from Malawi. 

.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

Yael said:


> I wouldn't keep the extra fish - and with Dems, you need a higher ratio of females so keeping the extra fish means too many fish for the size of your tank.


+1


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Haha, Yeah I was also shocked that I knew more about African cichlids than the LFS (and i'm not even that clued up...  )

Actually, it is quite difficult to get clichlids here. It seems like the LFS keep more "commercial" tropical fish than cichlids and ofcourse goldfish also. :roll:


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

I noticed recently that there are quite a lot of dead spots where the waste collects. It's not too bad, since I can vacuum only those areas quite easily. I was just thinking, should I go for an undergravel jet system to circulate the water better, therefore pushing the waste into the water column then into the sump? What do you guys think?

I've read up that cichlids do not require fast flowing water, but they do seem to enjoy swimming the currents.

another dilemma I am having is the current water flow in my tank... I have two return pumps from my sump, 1 X 5000 lts/h and another backup of 1000 lts/h. Taking head pressure into consideration, the total flow is around 2500 lt/h... which turns over my total volumn of water around 10x and lots of surface skimming since i'm using and overflow system. Do you think the flow is too much?

The question is, how do I optimise the flow so I don't have "dead spots" in the tank? any suggestions?

Here is some rough sketches... the purple circles indicate the "dead spots"


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

It's probably not a dead spot so much as an eddy area. I'd guess that the fish would like it as a place where they can rest and like you said, it's easy to vacuum if any larger stuff ends up at those points.


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Ok I've added some more rocks for caves.

It's temporary, since I want to get the same type of rock I originally used.

I've taken off the hood in the meantime, busy modifying it amd painting it.

Here's some pics.




























Thanks to everyones suggestions, I've finally come to my senses.

*** taken the dems, kenyi, cobalts and elongatus back to the LFS, and now going as suggested, 3 species tank, with labs, hongi, and socolofi. Was thinking of a jalo reef, but seems like it's difficult to find. 
I've also added a tiger bichir.. lets see what happens.

Only problem with the bichir is that it's so chilled, so the cichlids always has all the food. So now, I feed the bichir only once when the lights go out.


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Ok it's taken a while but my tank is 95% complete.



Did all the painting and now only need the tie in the side panels to the wall.





I totally revised the stocking to the following, and i know you guys are still going to say that 3 species is the way to go, which i do agree with, but at the moment i have the following in the tank.

2 x Hongi SRT



1 x Socolofi (couldnt find anymore)



2 x Albino Ice Blues



4 x Afra (dont know the exact species though)









5 x Yellow Labs (Hybrids though)

2 x Orange unknowns (waiting to see if someone on this forum can identify them)





1 x Tiger Bichir



1 x Sailfin Pleco

I also started a 1ft planted tank with a Betta and a chinese algae eater in it. :dancing:





Here is the Betta 



Enjoy :thumb:


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

I love all the pictures, I love your tanks! That is amazing what you built


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Nice looking tanks!

One concern, your yellow labs look more like red zebras. Red zebras are much more aggressive than yellow labs. Just something to look out for.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Your rockwork is amazing in your tank. Great job on the build.


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## Chongkie (Jun 7, 2013)

Hey just a quick update.

Recently did a few adjustments to rockwork. Finally got all the same type of rocks.

Everything in the tank is going smoothly, and everyone is getting along fine.

Got a new boss in the tank, the ice blue. 
Don't want bore you guys now, so heres some pics.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

your tank looks awesome :thumb: you have alot of sand in there so when your doing your water change run your fingers through the sand to release any possible build up of gas pockets. or use your vac whilst cleaning the substrate and stir it around.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Love the rock work.


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