# Can I Fit More Tropheus?



## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Wondering if I can fit any more Tropheus in my 4-foot 75 gallon. I can't really count the exact number, but I think I have 18 remaining Tropheus Ikolas in there... poor guys were dying and I didn't know why. I also have 6 Julidochromis transcriptus and 4 Synodontis petricola, along with lots of rocks for them.

I was wondering if I could get any more Tropheus in this tank -- mainly Tropheus duboisi. I've had this tank for 6 months, and the Tropheus are around 2" in length from head to tail. If I got any more, I'd prefer to do it now rather than later when they, from what I've read, might have more potential of being aggressive to new tankmates.

I'd be hesitant to add more Ikolas to the colony at this point. In fact, I don't think I ever will. But me and my family like Tropheus duboisi, and I've read in a few places that they rarely interact with other Tropheus types, making them a good candidate for a second Tropheus type in a tank. I've also seen many videos on Youtube of Duboisi mixed with other Tropheus types like the one I have, being Ikola, and Bemba/Bulu Point which I think are similar, if I'm not mistaken?

So, with all that being said, could I fit Tropheus duboisi in here? If so, how many? If not, why? (so I know)

Thanks in advance.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

I had been planning a new 75 gallon tank, maybe I can do this:

1. Set up new 75 gallon and cycle.
2. Remove all rocks from my current 75 gallon and set up rocks in new one.
3. Catch and move Julidochromis and Synodontis from old 75 gallon to new one, leaving just Tropheus Ikola in the old tank.
4. Add Cyprichromis or hard-water rainbowfish to new 75 gallon with the Julis and Synos.
5. Add Tropheus duboisi and Eretmodus gobies to old 75 gallon with the Ikolas.

How does that sound? My family wants the new tank to be more peaceful, meaning no Tropheus in the new tank (unfortunately) but Cyprichromis or rainbowfish are fish that we like that I think would work well in that tank anyway. Then, my old tank can be for Tropheus and gobies, which are my two favourite fish -- I just have to find out where to get Eretmodus in Canada.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

A 75g tank is not big enough to house two groups of Tropheus.
I have done it in 5' 120g tanks and one group always dominates the other resulting in one group not coloring up very well.
The possibility of cross breeding would also be greater in a smaller tank and despite what some may think, Dubs can crossbreed with other Trophs.
On top of that, Ikolas are known to spawn with just about anything given the right conditions.
Duboisi grow larger than any other Tropheus that I have seen personally.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Thanks noddy, what do you think I should do? I'm assuming adding more Ikolas is risky, and I don't know how 18 Ikolas will do long-term? Is that a good number to have in a Tropheus colony?


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

It's not a bad number. 18-24 is a decent sized group. A pair of gobies would add something more to the tank if that's what you are aiming for.
I personally would just leave them be (providing they are over whatever was killing them off and have stopped dying).
They will start breeding soon enough and the colony will grow.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

noddy said:


> It's not a bad number. 18-24 is a decent sized group. A pair of gobies would add something more to the tank if that's what you are aiming for.
> I personally would just leave them be (providing they are over whatever was killing them off and have stopped dying).
> They will start breeding soon enough and the colony will grow.


+1

I have Pemba in my 180, started with 23 and best I can tell now have close to 50, including fry and juveniles. It is really cool to see little ones poking their heads out of rocks as the big ones go by.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

noddy said:


> It's not a bad number. 18-24 is a decent sized group. A pair of gobies would add something more to the tank if that's what you are aiming for.
> I personally would just leave them be (providing they are over whatever was killing them off and have stopped dying).
> They will start breeding soon enough and the colony will grow.


Hm, ok. I considered moving the Julidochromis and Synodontis to a new tank so that I could fit another Tropheus group in the old one, but if I can't, then I'll think of another plan. My family seems to be on board with having another tank (which I was going to put the Julidochromis and Synos in), but they don't want Tropheus again because of what happened with them dying. So I'll just stick with one type of Tropheus.

I was going to go with a community tank with Bolivian rams, but I don't know, I'm not really sure if I want the small community fish that I would've gotten with them. Rainbowfish are nice, but I read that the softer-water ones (which would've been compatible with the rams) tend to have aggression between males, so that doesn't help much, either. If they're going to be aggressive, I figure I'd rather just get a Tanganyikan cichlid tank. And my tap water pH is naturally above 7... which is yet another reason why I want to go for Tanganyikan cichlids.

Maybe I can convince them to allow me to get another Tropheus colony in the new tank haha.

Also, what age / what size do Ikolas tend to start breeding?


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## Perbunan (Sep 12, 2009)

I removed my Synos from my Tropheus tank as the babies were going missing overnight and I think they were the culprits.
I now have a group of 18 plus 1 goby plus 1 lelupi for variety. It seems to be a well balanced tank.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Just a minute or two ago the dominant male Tropheus and what is presumably a female were doing a lot of shaking and displaying (and what looked like the start of mating!) in the large fake rock cave that I have in the tank, which I was thinking about removing to give more swimming space for the Tropheus. The male appeared to be trying to lure the female into the cave with him, and was chasing away all other fish. I guess I won't be taking the cave out anytime soon lol.

Would they be too young to breed? The biggest ones (the two that were together for example) are 2.5" or so.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Here are two pictures of the female. I haven't seen any shaking since my last post. She is doing a chewing thing and is picking at stuff, but doesn't open her mouth. She also has a very very slight bulge under her chin. Could it be what I think it could be??  It's hard to get a good picture on my phone, I have to zoom in which just makes it more blurry so it's not much better than not zoomed. Sorry about that.

She is no longer leaving the area outside the cave, but occasionally chases off the few fish that are coming near the cave. I think the male made it clear that they don't want guests. Take a look at these two pictures of the female (yes I know they are blurry) and see whether it looks anything like holding eggs, or whether I am getting ahead of myself. I swear it's easier to see the bulge in person but I spent a good 15 minutes watching her and trying to get a good picture to no avail. But this is what I got:
http://i.imgur.com/LF3MO2b.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/2wzBtBG.jpg?1


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

She's holding. Congrats.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

noddy said:


> She's holding. Congrats.


Thank you!! I've been hovering around this post for the past few mins because I was pretty excited to see what people thought. This is exciting 

I will keep an eye on her for the next couple weeks. It's possible that the eggs are infertile, or that they might be eaten, from what I've read? Could that happen, since I believe it's their first time spawning.

Overall though, really happy!!


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Also, I can 100% confirm that she is holding! (Not that I doubted you anyway, Noddy ) I threw an algae wafer in there and she was picking at it, then swam off a bit and spit out a big orangeish egg then immediately picked it back up again! I was kind of surprised she did that, I'm assuming it was just because she was trying to eat the algae wafer though.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Update time. Been 2 months, fish have been doing well (knock on wood), and just yesterday I managed to catch my Tropheus spawning on video! The video sucks cause they did it in a dark cave and I didn't want to shine the light on during the video because I didn't know if it'd disturb them.

They've been doing mating behaviour on and off for a bit, but when I turned the light on yesterday morning, I immediately saw a fish with a mouthful of what could only be eggs. Watched for a minute or so and they went back to spawning. It was pretty exciting to actually see it happen in person.

I'd upload the video but it's too dark to see much, it's kinda shaky cuz I was pretty surprised/excited, and there's lots of background noise. The only interesting part is that you can see one of the eggs halfway through the video, but that's about it.

Was gonna make a separate thread but decided not to.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Update again -- the Tropheus Ikola that I said was holding eggs earlier today now appears to have no eggs. No bulging mouth like this afternoon. I am sure that I'm looking at the same fish, because she has a bit of stripes, and in front of her yellow band there's a small bit of yellow that extends past the band but doesn't go all the way down to the bottom of the fish. I don't know how else to explain it, but my point is, it's the same fish.

So this would mean that after spawning FOR SURE yesterday, and still holding eggs this morning, the fish seems to have just eaten the eggs or something?

I actually had a very similar situation with another Tropheus Ikola, the one that I asked whether she was holding or not earlier in this thread. After posting the pictures and receiving a reply saying she was holding, the next day the mouth bulge seemed to have disappeared. I wrote this all down on my phone so I know the exact dates. A few weeks ago the same fish looked like she had eggs again for a single day, then the next day, the bulging mouth was gone again. And now it's happening again on this other female, except this time I have PROOF that she had eggs at one point.

So what could be happening to these fish? Why would they only be carrying eggs for a day? Is it just because they're young/inexperienced? I'm assuming it's nothing to worry about, but I still find it odd and rather disappointing. I haven't read about other people's experiences with this kind of thing; I think I remember reading about some fish holding for a few weeks but not for the full term, but never read about a fish holding for only a day, let alone two different fish doing the same thing.

I was kind of surprised to see them spawning at this size, because they don't look as big as the Tropheus that I've seen spawning on youtube. I estimate they're less than 3" in length. Could that have something to do with it?


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

It takes a couple of tries for the young fish to get the hang of it. Very normal for the first few spawns to be eaten quickly. Happens occasionally later as well. They can tell very quickly if the eggs are fertile or not. My Pemba also started spawning at about the size yours are at.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

So I suspect my Tropheus are holding again, we shall see what will happen...

I had to think about whether to make a new thread...because today I just saw my first Julidochromis babies! They are with their parents in the same tank as the Tropheus. I was lucky to have seen the tiny things against the algae-covered rocks, where they blend in. Then, I went to the other side of the tank, and what do you know, a second pair of Julidochromis had babies too! And I didn't notice any of the babies until now. (I did notice that all of my Julidochromis were digging crevices under the rockwork, so I did kind of hope that they were going to spawn.)

I now have a question: what do I feed the baby Julidochromis? Since they are with the Tropheus, I can't feed any meaty/protein-y food because the Tropheus will surely try to eat it. There are a ton of rocks in the tank and it will be impossible to take out the tiny babies and raise them in a separate section where I can feed them whatever I want. So far the babies are sticking very close to the rocks and they look like they're scavenging around for tiny pieces of stuff.

Can I get away with feeding my usual NorthFin Veggie cichlid pellets and Omega One Veggie Rounds, and hope the babies pick up some scraps? If not, what do I do?


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

679x said:


> So I suspect my Tropheus are holding again, we shall see what will happen...
> 
> I had to think about whether to make a new thread...because today I just saw my first Julidochromis babies! They are with their parents in the same tank as the Tropheus. I was lucky to have seen the tiny things against the algae-covered rocks, where they blend in. Then, I went to the other side of the tank, and what do you know, a second pair of Julidochromis had babies too! And I didn't notice any of the babies until now. (I did notice that all of my Julidochromis were digging crevices under the rockwork, so I did kind of hope that they were going to spawn.)
> 
> ...


I fed all my Trophs NLS, Grind a bit up for the babies.


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