# Help with a setup



## badgers4me (Aug 7, 2013)

This is my first post but I have been doing a lot of reading on this site, very useful information. Here is what I have. I got a 75 gallon tank from a freind you had it set up with some goldfish. I have a tank now for a number of years a small community tank. This tank I got from a freind he had set up and it got a brown film all over the inside and killed all his fish. So he took it down and gave it to me. It is only about a year old. Here is what I plan to do, please tell me if I am missing anything or doing anything wrong. I plan of keeping African Cichlids.

1. Toss everything in the tank away, gravel, decor everything.
2. Scrub inside out with a bleach water and rinse well.
3. He has a canister filter, plan on cleaning that the same way and using it, but also adding a new HOB filter as well.
4. Use pool filter sand for the bottom after I wash the sand.
5. Add rocks for decor
6. Cycle the tank for a couple of weeks and then add fish.

Am I missing anything or doing anything wrong here. Thank you in advance for your help.


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## earled (Jan 3, 2013)

sounds like a good start. You can reuse the gravel/decorations if you wash them in a 10% bleach solution and let it soak over night. Rinse thoroughly and soak in water with prime or something like prime overnight.

What kind of canister filter is it, the AC 110 is a great hob filter. Too much filtration is never a problem

add your fish slowly with the most passive fish first then the more dominant ones last.


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

The brown film probably didn't kill the fish. It is probably symptomatic of general neglect of the tank. It isn't necessary to throw anything out. Just soak everything in a bleach solution. As for the gravel, you are making the right decision regarding using pool filter sand.


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## badgers4me (Aug 7, 2013)

The canister is a Rena 400 I think it was on it. I know I could wash the stuff but I really want to try the sand thing, I have always liked the way they look and I thought this was a good oppertunity. As for the rest of the decor, not talking much a couple plasic plants and couple broken ship type parts.

Is there anything I can or should add to the tank when I start cycling it. It has been a long time since I started a new tank and I am sure there is something I should use now.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

badgers4me, Welcome to C-F!!!

I like the idea of using pool filter sand rather than gravel in the tank. You can toss the gravel, give it to a friend that may use it or if you belong to a local fish club, sell it or donate it after it has been cleaned and dried.

Check out the link in my signature for doing a Fishless Cycling. I prefer this method of cycling a tank and though it can take a while to complete, it is worth it plus it allows you to finalize any fish stocking choices and tweaking that you may want to do with the decor.

LDeVose2, I also extend a Welcome to you. You may be better off starting a new post to introduce your aquarium set up so it won't get lost in the OP's thread. I'll contact a Mod to move yours to a new thread.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

You can also use vinegar to do a lot of cleaning. Its works great and is less toxic than bleach. Bleach is good for removing odors tho. No matter what you use be sure to rinse everything until you no longer smell the cleaning solution.

What are you stocking plans for this tank?


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## badgers4me (Aug 7, 2013)

I cleaned it last night with bleach, worked very well. Left it sit with a bleach solution for a couple hours, cleaned up like a new tank. Filters are all cleaned. I picked up 100 pounds of pool filter sand at the pool store last night, I told the lady what I was going to do with it and she laughed and said that they sell a lot to people who use it for that including a local aquaruim guy who maintains tanks for local businesses. I thought that funny. She said there was not a need to wash it, but I think I will take the time and do it just to be on the safe side. Hoping a 100 pounds is enough.

Stocking, I have not got that far yet. I am thinking African from Malawi, but you bring up a good thought. I talked to a couple people and I was told to over stock the tank as it would keep down aggression. I know the old rule for 1 inch of fish per gallon, but what is overstocking. I was told in a 75 gallon that 25 fish would be a good number to keep down aggression. This seems like a lot to me. I also want to add something that will dig around maybe burrow into the sand some, any recomendations on something like that. Guess it is never to early to start planning. I want to do this right the first time so any imput would be great.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Glad you were able to get the tank cleaned up well.

I still recommend cleaning the pool filter sand first as there may be some small dusty particles and some brands seem to be dirtier than others.

You are a few weeks away from stocking any fish so it allows you a chance to see what species you are interested in. It is also helpful to know what species are available in your area or whether you plan on purchasing them online.

The choice of species will limit the stocking levels in your tank. Are you interested in a colorful tank, if so, you may want to consider a male only tank though it can be difficult to get the right mix of species?

If you are interested in the interaction of males and females, the recommendation is 1 male to 4/5 females. Females are usually not as brightly colored but this will differ depending on the species.

If you are unfamiliar with species names, check out the Profiles section at the top of the page for descriptions, adult size, etc. You can also check out the Cookie Cutter articles In the Library for basic recommendations for stocking levels for a 75G tank. Some of the suggestions are a bit ambitious so I highly recommend you post your species wish list prior to purchasing the fish.

You can also read some of the topics/posts in the Malawi section of the forum to catch up on advice given to other members and pictures of members aquariums. It should give you a good idea of what is appropriate for a 75G tank.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

badgers4me said:


> I cleaned it last night with bleach, worked very well. Left it sit with a bleach solution for a couple hours, cleaned up like a new tank. Filters are all cleaned. I picked up 100 pounds of pool filter sand at the pool store last night, I told the lady what I was going to do with it and she laughed and said that they sell a lot to people who use it for that including a local aquaruim guy who maintains tanks for local businesses. I thought that funny. She said there was not a need to wash it, but I think I will take the time and do it just to be on the safe side. Hoping a 100 pounds is enough.
> 
> Stocking, I have not got that far yet. I am thinking African from Malawi, but you bring up a good thought. I talked to a couple people and I was told to over stock the tank as it would keep down aggression. I know the old rule for 1 inch of fish per gallon, but what is overstocking. I was told in a 75 gallon that 25 fish would be a good number to keep down aggression. This seems like a lot to me. I also want to add something that will dig around maybe burrow into the sand some, any recomendations on something like that. Guess it is never to early to start planning. I want to do this right the first time so any imput would be great.


I think 100lbs of PFS will be way too much. I have 70lbs in my 75G tank and that's more than enough. You don't need a deep sand bed, just enough to cover the bottom and provide a little digging fun for your cichlids. My sand is about .5-1.5" deep.

20-25 mbunas (lake malawi cichlids) would probably be plenty for this tank. That is about 4 species of mbuna with a 1m/4-5f ratio and maybe a couple of BN plecos or some synodonis cats. Check out 75G cookie cutter setup on this site:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_75g.php

As dee said you are a few weeks away from adding fish, at least four. Its never too early to start thinking about species selection tho.


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## LDeVose2 (Aug 7, 2013)

Deeda said:


> badgers4me, Welcome to C-F!!!
> 
> I like the idea of using pool filter sand rather than gravel in the tank. You can toss the gravel, give it to a friend that may use it or if you belong to a local fish club, sell it or donate it after it has been cleaned and dried.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Deeda.

When my post was moved, the comments I had on the original question were edited out. However, they may have been considered redundant, so it is not a problem.

*MY QUESTION FROM THIS THREAD*: Is the pool sand a good idea for my New World (South American, Southeast USA) tank. As stated in my post, I have an oscar, dempsey, plecos, synodontus and dinosaur bichir in the main tank and oscar, blood parrots, snails, flounder, rainbow eel, bamboo shrimp in the sump/refugium. I don't think the flounder and eel will be moved to the main. The invertebrates will almost definitely remain in the sump/refugium.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Yes, PFS is a good choice for New World cichlids, LDeVose2.


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## badgers4me (Aug 7, 2013)

Ok, quick question. My plan was to run a HOB filter and also the canister filter. When putting it up last night I found a pin hole in the hosing ( I might have stepped on it, ok I did step on it, but not telling the wife) Anyway, I can replace the hose or I have an Emporer Filter new in the box I got at a rummage sale a while back. I could use that. Is there a real advantage in using one of each type filter or would 2 hob filters do just as well.

Also I have a power head I was going to put in to create a little movement, I thought about putting it about half way down the side of the tank. Good idea or not since I am using a sand bottem.

So much for a quick question huh.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

You could run 2 power filters and have great success, many people do

Power heads are a great way to circulate the water if need be. I only own one and it is on my 220G tank with two large canister filters and lots of rocks. If you add a PH, only you will be able to determine its placement to avoid kicking up any sand.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

I Would still try to use the canister. I'm sure the hose can be replaced very easily. Depending on the size you could use the Emperor, but canisters are far superior filters.

Depending on how much current you want one powerhead might not be enough unless its a fairly large one.

Here's my experience with powerheads in my 75G:

I had small maxi-jet PH in my 75G that was rated at 210GPH and it was just not enough. I upgraded to a 1250GPH circulation pump and it made a huge different. There are far less dead spots in my tank now. And I am using sand in my tank. You just have to make sure to position the pumps where they will not disrupt the sand. When I first installed the circ pump it pushed a huge pile of sand towards the front left corner of my tank. I pointed it more towards the surface and the problem was fixed.

If you are using the Emperor i would place the PH on the opposite end of the tank to push debris towards the filter. If you decide to use the canister place it on the opposite end of the filter intake, typically this is near the spraybar. Same goes for a circ pump. If you decide to use both filters you might night even need a pump as the two filters should provide plenty of flow in your tank.


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## badgers4me (Aug 7, 2013)

[


> quote="clhinds78"]I Would still try to use the canister. I'm sure the hose can be replaced very easily. Depending on the size you could use the Emperor, but canisters are far superior filters.


Why do you say canisters are superior, What makes them better than hob's. I have been using HOB's for years with no problems. Sell me on the canister!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

badgers4me said:


> [
> 
> 
> > quote="clhinds78"]I Would still try to use the canister. I'm sure the hose can be replaced very easily. Depending on the size you could use the Emperor, but canisters are far superior filters.
> ...


Well, I prefer them over HOBs especially if you have sand in your tanks. Here's why:

1. They are quieter than HOBs
2. They are less tacky because they are easier to hide. Most fit in the aquarium stand leaving only the intake and spraybar showing in your tank. 
3. They are larger providing a lot more filter media volume. More = more filtration = healthier fish!
4. Because of their larger filter capacity the media options are almost endless. 
5. Because of the way they work sand is much less likely to damage the motor and its impeller. Sand is murder on HOB filters and its pretty much impossible to keep it out of them.

To me these are more than enough reason to use canister, but to each their own. You have to decide what works best for you.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

+1 to what clhinds said. I have several HOB filters for some growout tanks that I can't wait to shut down. HOBs do move a lot of water, though, and their price tag is attractive. That's about it, IMO.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> +1 to what clhinds said. I have several HOB filters for some growout tanks that I can't wait to shut down. HOBs do move a lot of water, though, and their price tag is attractive. That's about it, IMO.


Agreed on the price tag! I think canisters are worth and you don't have to spend Ehiem or Fluval bucks to get a decent one. I do, however, use HOBs on my smaller tanks and tanks without sand. It's really quite impractical to use a canister on anything 20G and under and HOBs work great for tanks 50G and smaller.


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## badgers4me (Aug 7, 2013)

What is your thoughts on running one of each, that was my orginal plan. I think I will go back to that and try the canister. Thank you for the information.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

badgers4me said:


> What is your thoughts on running one of each, that was my orginal plan. I think I will go back to that and try the canister. Thank you for the information.


 :thumb: Always nice to have a backup, as well...


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

I want to also say there are bad things to say about canisters as well. 1. They can leak, in all my years I have never heard of an HOB flooding the house, but it can happen to almost any canister. 2. without the spray bar you definitly don't get as much surface agitation as HOB, and the spray bar is noisy. 3 They are a pain to clean comparitively to an HOB. 4. most canitster you can't tell when the filter needs cleaning, HOB just pop the top and check and the AquaClear you can see through them to check. Each have their goods and bads I say get 1 of each.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

walzon1 said:


> I want to also say there are bad things to say about canisters as well. 1. They can leak, in all my years I have never heard of an HOB flooding the house, but it can happen to almost any canister. 2. without the spray bar you definitly don't get as much surface agitation as HOB, and the spray bar is noisy. 3 They are a pain to clean comparitively to an HOB. 4. most canitster you can't tell when the filter needs cleaning, HOB just pop the top and check and the AquaClear you can see through them to check. Each have their goods and bads I say get 1 of each.


I would like to add, that a spray bar, if positioned properly concerning depth and angle, is much quieter than any HOB I've had. They are more difficult to clean, but general maintenance every 3-4 months is no big deal. And popping the top that often should avoid an issue on how often to clean a canister filter.

Everything walzon said is true, though...

And I love that picture of your cons walzon. Makes me want to grab some! Just not breed them...


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> walzon1 said:
> 
> 
> > I want to also say there are bad things to say about canisters as well. 1. They can leak, in all my years I have never heard of an HOB flooding the house, but it can happen to almost any canister. 2. without the spray bar you definitly don't get as much surface agitation as HOB, and the spray bar is noisy. 3 They are a pain to clean comparitively to an HOB. 4. most canitster you can't tell when the filter needs cleaning, HOB just pop the top and check and the AquaClear you can see through them to check. Each have their goods and bads I say get 1 of each.
> ...


Wow thanks iggy, Those girls in my avatar are terrorizing my tank though :lol: I hope I wasn't too out of line on your tank post, I do love your layout.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> walzon1 said:
> 
> 
> > I want to also say there are bad things to say about canisters as well. 1. They can leak, in all my years I have never heard of an HOB flooding the house, but it can happen to almost any canister. 2. without the spray bar you definitly don't get as much surface agitation as HOB, and the spray bar is noisy. 3 They are a pain to clean comparitively to an HOB. 4. most canitster you can't tell when the filter needs cleaning, HOB just pop the top and check and the AquaClear you can see through them to check. Each have their goods and bads I say get 1 of each.
> ...


My spraybar is silent! Just have to make sure to position it below the water's surface.

There certainly are some drawbacks to canisters as there will be with any filter. No system is perfect. I still think the benefits out canisters outweigh the cons, especially the health benefits for the aquarium and its inhabitants.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

> I hope I wasn't too out of line on your tank post, I do love your layout.


Of course not! I agree with you.


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## badgers4me (Aug 7, 2013)

Ok, worked on the tank this weekend, I will post pictures of the set and get your thoughts as soon as I figure out how to take a good picture. I was also looking at the "cookie cutter" setups I printed a few out and took a motorcycle ride to 4 or 5 petstores to see what was available. Mind you I am not buying not just trying to get a feel of what is out there.

Here is my observations and please forgive me, I do not mean to offend anyone this is just my thoughts.

I found very few or really no one at Petco or Petsmart that really truely knew anything about stocking a tank. One gal told me and I qoute "you just have to get what looks pretty to you, they will all learn to get along". Some of the other local "fish" stores were better, they at least seemed to know what they were talking about. I did get a lot of it is ok to mix Peacocks and Mbuna in a 75 gallon tank. However when trying to find fish on my list I found it difficult, I heard "we don't get them in much", "they must go by another name", "we stock what we get". It was a very interesting learning experience.

So my question is this, where do most of you get you fish from. Chain stores, local stores or do you order them online. I was looking at some websites and they at least seem to have what a person is looking for. Can someone reccomend some idea's? Thank you


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

badgers4me said:


> Ok, worked on the tank this weekend, I will post pictures of the set and get your thoughts as soon as I figure out how to take a good picture. I was also looking at the "cookie cutter" setups I printed a few out and took a motorcycle ride to 4 or 5 petstores to see what was available. Mind you I am not buying not just trying to get a feel of what is out there.
> 
> Here is my observations and please forgive me, I do not mean to offend anyone this is just my thoughts.
> 
> ...


I have had similar experience with LFSs, particiuslararly the big box stores. I stay away from them for aquarium advice and cichlids. They are ok for basic community fish and supplies, but that's about it.

I think the best way to purchase fish is from local breeders. Check your local craigslist for people offering cichlids. I found a breeder near me that pretty much had all the species and wanted and was selling them at half the price of the pet store or online retailers plus no shipping!

You can order online and I have done this too. Many online stores have a large selection, but you will be paying for it, up to $70 a piece for some of the rarer male peacocks. Check the retailer reviews section of this site for more information. I have used livefishdirect.com with some success and i know many use and love davesfish.com too.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Try looking for a club or association near you. Click 'clubs' at the top of each page on the forum.


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## badgers4me (Aug 7, 2013)

I had already checked out the clubs, nothing in my area


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

badgers4me said:


> I had already checked out the clubs, nothing in my area


Bummer!

There's got to be a breeder nearby you, especially if you are near a larger city.


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## badgers4me (Aug 7, 2013)

Lacrosse, WI

Not that is within 2 hours


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