# Calvus aggression tactics..



## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

I am still having an issue with my smallest Calvus black being chased into the top corner.

oops its a 4ft 55g

This weekend I removed all of my Julies (had 5 from 1-2 in long), added a slimline BG and rearranged rocks abit. The rearrange and Julie removal was in the hopes that the harrassed fish would be able to claim some territory of its own. Well not to be the case as it turns out.

This tank is primarily for the Alto's

On to my question... Could adding more calvus help? Any chance adding a different variant such as Alto comps Muzi or Sumbu Dwarfs might help spread the aggression from the dominant fish? (btw the dominant calvus would back down from the julies which were claiming way too much territory for my liking)

I have 3 Calvus black in there atm, (stocklist below) wondering if tossing 2-3 more in would help. Trying to find fish of close to the same size.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

You would not mix two different types of Alto's... that definately would not help any. Perhaps adding more black calvus would help.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Or a plant pots with a holes only big enough for the bullied to get in.


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve stuck Ã¢â‚¬Å"thingsÃ¢â‚¬Â


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## mobafrontlover (May 1, 2011)

I'm having the same problem I started with 7 bcpw calvus and down to 4 with one in the corner had 3 jump so would I be best to pull the rejected fish or just give them a hid a way until things work out


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

First, if you havenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t already, get a tight fitting lid to stop the jumpers.

Next, if theyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re still young and not paired up, provide as many hiding spots as you can and wait it out. My only female (out of 6 Calvus) was among the homeless hiding wherever she could when I was growing them out. Of course, I didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know she was a she until she paired up with one of the males. So, pulling her early would have been a bad thing in my specific case.

If you have adults and theyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve been in the tank long enough to settle in, youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll either have to try different tank arrangements or surrender to the inevitable and pull the outcasts.

No matter the situation, providing extra hiding spots and some form of shelter higher up in the tank isn't going to hurt anything and worth a shot if nothing else is working.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Juvi Calvus is what it sounds like you have? (2" can easily still be juvis. I would say they're not Fully fledged adults until their pearled scales are displayed in straight lines.

With juvis you have much more hope at establishing a society of them. Amongst juvis it's not often that you end up with a runt male to the extent that "he" is the smallest in the group so let's go with what it, the problem, usually is.

Providing hiding places is good but, ime, when the dominant fish or, in the case of juvi calvus, the dominant fish plural, lay eyes on the outcast they will rage on it yet again so you can provide high corner obstacles for hime to hide, but like "jrf" said this is only a temporary fix.

Firstly when I'm trying to creat a successful group of young calvus and they "hate" one or two I do the following:

I must first explain what I mean by "hated". If you watch a large enough group of same age juvi calvus you will see that the males all hang out together in the mid water column and the females almost line up by status at the bottom during the majority of their hang out time whilst not feeding etc.

In juvis, it is more likely, the females who will reject or, as I describe it, "hate" one or more. One way to affirm this is to watch and see who the instigator is. If it begins with the biggest from the group of the perspective females at he bottom and the other females join in when the reject gets too close etc. than you are likely dealing with a hated female.

In the case of rejected males, as juvis, this is uncommon in my fish room but it does happen. It's usually because of some deformity and/or health issue in the reject such as stunted growth, mouth deformity or internal issue etc.

In both cases removal of the reject is advisable and, I think absolutely necessary lest the hated fish dwindle and die. If the fish is showing any signs of slimming down than removal is eminent.

There is hope however. Often times the cause for the hated fish being singled out cannot be pin pointed... I have found that if I remove a rejected female and literally fatten her up she is taken back into the harem of females with no hard feelings.

If you're dealing with sub-adults (I'll not go into adults because at 2" there's not much chance you're working with calvus males older than 3 years and, while they're quite fertile at 2-3 years I don't consider them adults until 4-5 years. For now they're like college kids :lol: ) There is a few things that may be going on.

The simplest would be that this reject is a duplicate male, and this will not be tolerated in a 4' tank. I have 2 males in a 6' as I write this and one of them has his lips beat up pretty bad and is pending removal. In the case of it being male, just sell or trade him off.

The politics of sub-adult altos (1.5-3yrs.) is quite complicated and fascinating for a fish but equally as confusing for a hobbyist so...

Sub-adult females, and adult females for that matter especially dominant type females (Longer bodied, bigger but almost look a bit emaciated in the gut despite being wonderfully healthy, bigger heads and lack the stubby bullet like appearance of harem or sub-dominant females. Often "Dominant" type females are mistaken as males as they resemble males in much of their appearance other than the high shoulder look) will fight, often to the death, with any similarly sized dominant type female. I find it best not to stock any females of a similar size to the dominant female for this reason.

Sub-adult males fight each other constantly but don't usually single a male out unless he's mortally wounded in battle. Oddly enough, while adult males will expel and/or kill any, lesser equipped, rival male within about 4' of himself, especially when bonded and breeding, sub-adult males tend to either fight with all the males or none of them. WHen a sub-adult male isn't fighting the other males it is VERY often because he has chosen a mate amongst the females. The two will be seen "honeymooning" around and maybe even hanging out around a cave or shell with seemingly no idea what to do with it and, other than taking turns going in it +hanging near it they don't. This, of course a great sign and, if you are happy with this sub-adult male you might as well trade/move/sell the other males.

To answer one of your questions: yes it would be wise to add more calvus atp. Only because it sounds like you'd like to keep a harem of calvus in your 55 and, imo, a trio in a 55 could be a bit sparse when you consider that some males will manage up to 8 females peacefully.

In fact I would say 95% of ongoing calvus fights, at any age, are amongst the females. If anything the dominant maLE can be relied upon to break up a spat between squabbling females although he will ALWAYS side with his preferred female (The one he hangs out with all the time and the only one he hangs out with even when she isn't spawning).

I would take the reject out, get her fat and put her back. If your fish are 2+ years old, put a big shell in for a dominant female and a smaller shell in for the additional harem female and place them on opposite ends of the setup.

Like I said Calvus are really tough to read during the sub-adult stage because they sometimes act like juvis and sometimes adults.

A variable:
Since you are only working with 3 fish it is could be an additional male. A couple ways to add this up is to observe wether the reject is being assaulted by one of the other two or both of them.

If it looks like the second smallest of your three is singling the reject out than dollars to donuts you're looking at a rejected little female (Good news, just rehab her and put her back.) If they're both intolerant of a third I'm gonna say he's male as even newly mature males don't bother much with additional females.

Another variable would be, and this is part of the whole sub-adult confusion, that the little female is not sexually mature while her sister and brother are. Even adult males don't much care for immature females. They won't seek and destroy but they don't seem to like having them around and mature females won't tolerate immature females.

Adding more calvus will make sexing and politics MUCH easier. I have a 55 gallon with 18 2+ year old BP Calvus and I can tell you from 15' away which is male etc. (The only reaon my sub-adults aren't killing each other is because there 18 of them in their. Still it's getting kinda gnarly in there).

The reason why simply fattening her up and putting her back may work:
As sub-adults of the same age (?) she may not be quite ready to become ripe with eggs and good steady feedings and special attention can encourage her to immature. The best case scenario whenever reintroducing a rejected or "hated" calvus, which is presumably female, is to wait until she's as fat as a pig or "ripe". If she is ripe, any mature dominant male will likely tolerate her so long as she's got somewhere to breed such as a shell etc. Even angry dominant females won't pursue another female into that female's shell/cave.

If she was sick to begin with and was singled out for this reason, removal followed by rehab (Fattening up) will likely solve the problem as well.
The basic rule of thumb is that Calvus, male and female, are always on their best behavior when breeding is an option.

It's a lot of guess work with only 3 juvi/sub-adults. I suggest more, but then I awlays suggest more calvus!

Sorry for the longwinded response. I love talking Calvus and I type fast so... :thumb:


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Thats a lot of typing..

Well, 2" calvus black appear to be hard to find, no response on local forums to ads I have placed. I do have a spare tank I can attempt to place the harassed fish in, so perhaps I will try that tactic. When I first got the 3, 2 of them (sub dom and the 1 being the now harassed) tolerated each other while the dominant fish chased all. As time went on the "sub dom" fish decided he/she didn't like the harassed fish either so now the harassed hides in the corner. The dominant fish doesn't mind crossing the tank to chase one of the other 2, the sub dom won't instigate anything with the dominant but he will chase the harassed fish when close.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Well Saturday, I visited my favourite lfs who only sells african rift lake fish, and walked out with 4 x 1" black calvus. I brought them home turned the lights off in the display tank and let the noobs acclimate in a 5g pail. Oops i also got a 1" pleco, no clue what type he is (not a BN) so likely he will outgrow the 55 in the next 6 months .. BUT I LOVE PLECOS...

Anyways, after 45 mins acclimating (adding some of my tank water every 15 mins to the pail) I released the noobs into the display tank. (All my fish come from the same LFS and always have)

I left the lights off for an hour...

Then I turned them on... I actually couldn`t believe what I saw when i turned them on, the larger calvus were trying to tear the noobs apart! I immediately thought I had just basically sentenced the 4 noobs to death.. I turned the lights off again.

Well 2 days later it appears as though I have made a huge impact on the calvus in the tank. They are less aggressive towards each other overall, including the larger fish. The conspecific agression is so far reduced and I no longer have fish hiding in the corner. I can`t understand why.. and for the moment will accept it as a nasty lie, but will monitor. The runt/female that used to hide in the top corner maybe empowered having something to pick on i dunno, but none of the little guys are hiding in the top corners. One did for the first evening but no longer. It seems bravery/confidence is a better survival instinct in the aquariium than hide or flight.

Oh yeah and none of the tangs pick on my PLECO!


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Sounds normal to me. They're all juvis it sounds like. And you do have to be careful with size differences in young calvus. I don't even raise broods together unless the were born within a few weeks of each other. I find they seem to do fine despite acceptable losses but when the marathon of raising them to maturity is over the ratio seems to be male heavy which is likely due to the bullying of the older siblings...

Anyway everything should be smooth sailing for you until some honest to goodness pairing starts which, judging by the sizes you have will be awhile so enjoy.

At least when they're matured together like you're doing they tend to pair well and they also tend to be less violent when it does come down to rejecting unwanted society members.

IMO, Calvus are the smartest, most beautiful fish in the lake for a ton of reasons although Cyathopharynx males are pretty cool looking too! Oh and cyp males, and Chalinochromis and trans... I like them all!


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