# Canister Filtration help. Serious help



## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

Ok, so I have a 125 gallon tank with mixed african cichlids. Couple Frontosa Burundi, one tropheus, few peacocks, few haps. One nightmare ob peacock getting rid of. Few Lelupi. Couple Mbuna. Don't worry. I feed them perfect. Veggie gets veggie. Meat eaters get protein.

So i have for filtration on it. One emperor 400 and an eheim pro 3 2080. Used the eheim substrate set to fill the 2080. I'm looking into getting another canister filter. The emperor is hanging on the side of the tank right now because I don't have room in my apartment to put the emperor 400 hanging on the back where it belongs. So I had to cut one of my tank lids to the right size to fit it with the filter hanging on it. This is the main reason I want another canister filter so I can butt the tank up against the wall tighter without needing so much space behind.

There is a big sale at marine depot for the Eheim 2180 which has a built in heater so that would remove the need of any heaters in the tank. I already have two hang on heaters that aren't nearly enough wattage. So that means I would have to buy 2-200 or 300 watt heaters in addition to the canister filter. The eheim would save me money in this department providing the heat. I also have been looking at the FX5 because it's better at mechanical filtration. I have noticed a lot of floaties that the eheim is missing. And I've read that where they fault it is mechanical.

So my question is: should I just get the Eheim 2180 from Marine depot and have a Eheim 2180 and my original Eheim 2080 running on my 125 gallon tank. OR, should I get the FX5 for the better water flow and mechanical fitering and then get something like a in line heater for the heat. I like the fact of not having heaters and cords hanging in the tank taking away from the esthetics.

When answering please be scientific if you can. I research into everything immensely before I make a big purchase. I just want to make the right one.

I've also read into biological bottle necking. Would that occur with the 2 - eheims. I really think it's #%$&. If you have a heavily stocked tank or overfeed. There would be plenty to feed both filters. But I"m new and need some great advice. Please be specific. I am looking at these two. So please don't throw and other filters or sumps into the mix. Unless you absolutely must. I am leaning toward the FX5. for better water flow throughout the tank and I think it would be a good balance. What do ya think!

Thanks everyone. I sure need this help.


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

Someone please give me your two cents. Anything.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

First of all, you need to loosen up. Multi posting the same question in various forums violates site policy, and is not going to help. The same goes for bumping your thread after half an hour. If you got no response within a couple of days, a bump might be in order, but generally mods and many experienced members answer threads first that have 0 responses. If you bump your thread, it shows up as one response, and is likely to get less attention.

Regarding heaters, one 300W heater on a 125G should be plenty, unless you keep your apartment at sub-zero temperatures. I have a Hydor 300W inline heater on my 125G and it does fine.

Regarding canisters, for a 125G tank one large canister filter should provide more than sufficient filtration. I am using an Eheim 2260 on my 125G, and find it is plenty. The Fluval FX5 is very similar to the 2260, and would do the job just the same. I am less familiar with the Eheim filters you are considering, but I dare say they will also be similar enough to be considered equal in filtering power. If you prefer to use two filters instead of one, that will also be fine. I agree with your conclusion that 'biological bottle necking' is essentially an urban myth. You might not find my advice "scientific", but the truth is that your filter choice comes down to personal preference. If you can get a better deal on one filter, I'd pick that one. Or you might prefer the color of one, or just use eeny, meeny, miny, moe...

While I consider your filtration choice not critical, I think your stocking situation is. Frontosa and Tropheus make very bad tank mates, not just because of dietary requirements, which can be solved, but also because of temperament, which can not be solved. Similar problems exist with other combinations of fish in your tank. If you are as enthused about researching things as you say, I strongly recommend directing your research efforts away from hardware and towards your fish's husbandry requirements - especially compatibility with other fish!


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

I appreciate your help. So should i just keep the emperor. I like having working lids and one eheim is not enough no matter how good it is. No water flow. Lots of floating poop


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

And where do you go to find immediate answers if you have a lot of questions. I don't want to sit around for days waiting for a couple simple questions answered . There is only two fronts and they're smaller 5inch. One tropheus who is super chill. The only grief i get is from the ob Peacock.

How do i get rid of the suspended matter in the water.

I have a studio so it's about noise and space also. If i had more room I'd have more options.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

fishmasterxl said:


> I appreciate your help. So should i just keep the emperor. I like having working lids and one eheim is not enough no matter how good it is. No water flow. Lots of floating poop


Eheim 2262 if you want one filter for your tank and good circulation but you may still need a power head for additional circulation. If you are like me I hate seeing poop on the sand so I have strong current. The eheim 2262 is rated at 900gph and it varies depending on media what the actual GPH is. May be 400 and may be 750. You could go that route or get one fx5 and the GPH is around the same as the eheim except it doesn't hold near the media.

You could build a 5' spray bar to spread the flow more evenly.

You could also get two FX5 filters and skip the power head all together. You could get one fx5 and one eheim 2262. There are so many different combinations.

PS...I am on here quite a bit checking up on threads I have posted in so I should be able to get back to you rather quickly.

HTH


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## rgr4475 (Mar 19, 2008)

fishmasterxl said:



> And where do you go to find immediate answers if you have a lot of questions. I don't want to sit around for days waiting for a couple simple questions answered .


Try some patience. What did you ever do before the internet? For immediate answers, go to the library and read a book.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

fishmasterxl said:


> And where do you go to find immediate answers if you have a lot of questions. I don't want to sit around for days waiting for a couple simple questions answered.


Around here you get what you pay for :lol:

I like the idea with the library - we have an excellent library section on CF - but if that doesn't suit you, I can be on call 24x7 for you. You can have my cell phone number, but I charge $100 per hour just to be on call. Payment is for one month in advance. PayPal to my email address if interested


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

Ok. Well I already have a Eheim pro 3 2080. Maybe just the fluval and maybe a water pump to just get water flowing toward the bottom of the tank that would clear stuff up I think. I like the idea. The 2080 was given to me with the tank and stand. All for 500 bucks. Great deal. The eheim had a leak and I fixed it by replacing the gaskets. Easy. Love it. But it has a hard time keeping up with the mechanical side.

As I've read is a common flaw in this model. I did read what this guy Harvey from Monserfishkeepers did. Was use one basket for filter floss alone. A whole bag. I think I'd be happy with the FX5. Seems like it would push way more water than this Emperor 400 HOB. And I like the idea of just cleaning the sponges and reusing. I've found this hobby getting more expensive with every perfection made. A healthy environment and clean is what I'm looking for


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

That sounds like you got a steal on the tank and filter! Gaskets are the first thing to wear on Eheims - and pretty much the only thing on most of them. Unless of course you manage to break the impeller shaft when doing maintenance. Guess how I know 

One thing worth keeping in mind is that biological filtration is for your fish. Mechanical filtration is for you! The fish couldn't care less about a few particles floating around the water, and if you have good biological filtration, they will be broken down very quickly to be removed with your regular water changes - which in my view are the key to successful fish keeping.

Regarding filter media, I use only filter floss - no special bio media or anything. There is a bit of trial and error to where it will be just tight enough so you don't have bypass, but not so tight that it will restrict flow. In my experience it is unsurpassed for both, biological and mechanical filtration.

A little while ago I was talking to one of the big shots in the hobby - Heinz Buescher. He has been to Lake Tanganyika so often he has stopped counting, brought back plenty of fish to keep in his tanks in Switzerland, has received an honorary doctorate from a university for the help he provided with their research on cichlids, Neolamprologus buescheri is named in his honor. He said: "After being in the hobby for so long, it's amazing to find out about all the things you don't need!" He uses only air driven sponge filters on all his tanks now. They sometimes give me grief because the bubble stones clog up in hard water. Heinz has taken the bubble stones out of all his filters!


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## countryboy814 (Feb 19, 2012)

The FX5 is the way to go if you have the money. Eheim canisters can break the bank. If you use the recommended filter media with the Eheim it could run almost $200 just for the media. If you're going to stuff the canister full of floss, why get an Eheim when any canister with like gph will do?


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

countryboy814 said:


> If you're going to stuff the canister full of floss, why get an Eheim when any canister with like gph will do?


Because an Eheim can easily last 20 years and more without a hitch, is super quiet, and will start up after any power outage without fail. Personally, I prefer the classic series, because they don't have any of the wretched media baskets or similar shenanigans. Just one big, spacious chamber to fill with floss, and a pump-head second to none. What isn't there can't break!

I started in this hobby in 1977 at the tender age of 10 with an Eheim 2213. The only reason I don't have it any more is that I upgraded to bigger models. Eheim still manufactures and sells the same filter virtually unchanged to this day. When they designed the classic series, they got it just right, and to me the design has not been surpassed to this day. Trying to improve on it is a bit like trying to design a better mousetrap.

As an aside, I have never spend a dime on original Eheim media, and consider it a total waste of money. When I bought my first Eheim, they were not even selling media, but advocated the use of filter floss - for which the classic series was designed! Only later did Eheim run into the problem that their filters last too long, so they have a hard time maintaining customers. They solved that problem by starting to sell bio media...

Of course there are other filter manufacturers, and their stuff might also work well, but you asked about Eheim :lol:


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## countryboy814 (Feb 19, 2012)

Ooh ruffled feathers. The question was rhetorical. So take a 5 gal. bucket and slap Eheim on it $400. Take same bucket and slap Sun Sun on it $80.


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

Love all this information! This is great. Coming from 30 years of experience. Fish gods in my eyes. The eheim 2262 is amazing from what I've read. The catch is i already have a 2080. There is a sale on eheim media set from *Vendor Removed* that *Vendor Removed* priced matched. $110 dollars for the set that usually costs $180. I bought it just arrived today. The eheim 2262 is still $479 for the unit. The same price as the much newer 2080. I have a 55 gallon and plan on setting it up using the. 2 emperor 400's i already have. One of them coming from taking off the emperor off my 125 when the fx5 arrives.

So i can use some of the media set from eheim that i bought in the fx5 and some in the emperor 400.

I do have another question. So the cartridges for the emperor clog pretty easy and are pricey. They do sell empty clam shells for it for any media you wish to put it. If i pay like 8 bucks for 4 empty clam shells then fill it with cheap good filter floss I'm thinking it would save me a lot of money. Any filter floss recommendations and where to buy cheap in bulk.

I also have one more question regarding water changes. So i too am a super advocate for water changes and perform at least a 25% water change every week. Putting 30 gallons or so aside is impossible to let dechlorinate. (If that's even a word) :-D so I've just found filling the tank directly from the sink is the most efficient. So does that chlorine going directly in my tank killing the beneficial bacteria. And how come after water changes i notice the fish get weird. Flashing on rocks and ruffling gills. Even digging into the substrate. The water i add temperature is always the same. Use amquel plus and stress coat to remove the chlorine. But still this behavior. What gives? Is it normal. You gods don't actually think to set aside that much water. I just know it's not possible.

On another note. If anyone is looking to buy the python gravel cleaner or the other lee one. DON'T. WHAT I WASTE OF WATER. I can't believe they just expect you to let the water run to create the vacuum for it. When a syphon works just as good and uses no more water than a standard water change. I'm sending mine back. Just going to use a smaller diameter clear tubing for sucking up stuff in the sand. 25 bucks for those things.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

countryboy814 said:


> Ooh ruffled feathers. The question was rhetorical. So take a 5 gal. bucket and slap Eheim on it $400. Take same bucket and slap Sun Sun on it $80.


Careful you don't slap that Sun Sun too hard. :wink:


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

GTZ said:


> countryboy814 said:
> 
> 
> > Ooh ruffled feathers. The question was rhetorical. So take a 5 gal. bucket and slap Eheim on it $400. Take same bucket and slap Sun Sun on it $80.
> ...


LOL...I don't slap anything in this hobby too hard!! If I had the $$$ I would have all my equipment custom built.....then again I don't have the $$$$.


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

Oh $HIT ON SUN SUN


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