# Beginner- Shopping Help- Filters and Stones etc



## Vinodh (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi Everyone,

I have read, multiple articles on-line about Cichilds and did my due diligence, but before shelling out money on tank products, I would like to seek counsel and help of experts and seasoned enthusiast in buying some of these products. Please help me with shopping with right products, I am from India, i wont have access to the stores and e-stores from your regions. After research, I have given links product category, all you have to do is, tell me which one to choose and whether some product is required or not. I would greatly appreciate if you could take time of your's to help my endeavour. :thumb:

*Details of Tank*
Cichlid- Malwai mbuna and Peacocks. :fish:

Tank: Planning to buy customized one- with long length and breadth- minimal height.
In this range
250 litres to 350 litres 
66.043 gallons to 106 gallons

Please have a quick or detailed look ( as per your convenience ) and let me know which products I can buy. If the products are out of stock it's fine, I will go to store and buy it. Please advise as soon you can, since i will be doing everything in this long weekend- Good Friday, Saturday and Sunday. *Copy and paste the names alone if you don't have time; links are preferable though. *

*Wave Maker:*
Cheaper ones, that will do the job.

http://www.indianaquarium.com/wave-make ... 5777648672

*Stone:* :roll: 
If the substrate is white sand, i guess, any colour of stone will be good. Please advise the stones, that wont cause harm to fish or change the PH value of water.

http://aquashoppe.in/substrate-decor/rocks-pebbles
http://happyaqua.in/Bangalore/aquarium-rocks

*Sand: *
Not for aqua-scaping, just for decoration and having substrate.

http://www.indianaquarium.com/home-grav ... s-and-sand
http://aquashoppe.in/substrate-decor/substrate

*Lights: *
Articles from this forum says florescent lights are better, I checked these pages, still don't have clue whicn one is right.

http://www.indianaquarium.com/home-tube-light#/?page=7
http://happyaqua.in/Bangalore/lighting- ... &order=ASC

*C02 systems: :-? *
Not sure if it is required, please recommend the cheaper ones and the one that will do the job, even if it out stock- i can purchase it from a store
http://www.fishspot.in/aquarium-co2-system/
http://aquashoppe.in/equipment/CO2-equipment?page=1

Filter:
Recommendation- best thing to keep it clean. Hang-on filters only, I can't afford canisters.  But after research says hang-ons are the most preferred.  
http://www.fishspot.in/aquarium-filter/
http://aquashoppe.in/equipment/aquarium ... iberty-200

*Thermometer:*
http://aquashoppe.in/equipment/aquarium ... hermometer

*Sponge filter:* Necessary? :-? 
http://aquashoppe.in/equipment/aquarium ... lter-small

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*Not essential*
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Plants:- articles say Fishy's can uproot them. I can use a pot to plant one or two. Please recommend good species for tanks.

http://aquashoppe.in/aquarium-plants

*Decorations:*

I can see its for shrimp. but it kind off looks look. Will it serve purpose for cave and hiding places for chichlids.
http://www.fishspot.in/fluval-ceramic-shrimp-decor-log/
or
http://www.fishspot.in/fluval-ceramic-s ... cor-trunk/

*I will send picture of my tank once set-up along with a thank you note giving credit to your help. Thank you very much for everyone who can reply. * =D> :dancing:


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

A CO2[/sub] system is only required for certain plants, and you can keep many plants without CO[sub]2[/sub]. For your purposes you certainly don't need a CO[sub]2 system. For plants, I understand _Valisneria sp._ are native to, and abundant in India. If you have access to a comparatively clean creek or other waterway, you might be able to pick some up for free! I collect them whenever I visit the coast here in North Carolina, where they live in the brackish water of the sounds. They do great in cichlid tanks! Also, if there is any unpolluted stretch of the Coromandel coast you have a chance to visit, you have your ideal source for sand. You might even be able to pick up some sandstone, which does not alter pH. That said, pH altering rock like limestone is a welcome (even if not necessary) addition to a tank with African cichlids, because these fish enjoy a higher pH. With some nice rocks, you won't need plastic or ceramic decorations.

Now we just saved a ton of money, and you should spend this money on a quality canister filter. Such a filter can also be set up to create a good current by using a spraybar or a venturi valve as outlet. Thanks to this current, you don't need a wavemaker, and thanks to the excellent biological filtration in the canister, you won't need an additional sponge filter, so you have even more money to spend on the canister! Get the biggest Fluval you can afford, if this is the brand available in your area. You will not regret it!

Thermometer: get the cheapest regular thermometer you can find, but not those colored strips people put like stickers on a tank.

Light: T8 fluorescent light is good, T5 is even better, but what matters more is that it's around 6500K, which means close to natural daylight. Around here you can save a lot of money by buying light in a hardware store. Aquarium stores charge multiple times the price for essentially the same light.

Best of luck!


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## Vinodh (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi Mr.Mueller,

I couldn't thank you enough giving fantastic tips, to save some hard-earned money and invest on a great filter.  I live in Chennai (Madras), Coromendal coast is nearby. So i can just take car and raid the east coast to get trunk full of sand for free :dancing: Also while i am at filling sand sack, will scout for sand stones. Checking the local shop sounds like great plan, will certainly go to shops and find T8 or T5 light. But is it brand or type? Google says its a type.

We have bore in my house, which we use exclusive for hygiene purpose. Earth below has lots of lime stones, water itself- naturally contains lime. So i guess, that will ideal for cichleds. :lol:

I checked fluvial canisters, two affordable models are for 100l and 200l,will it be enough for to work on 250liter tank? 
Also, tank of that capacity, will that be enough for the fishy's attain full growth? Since, i will be buying only the smaller ones, raise them into big boys and girls. 

Thank you so much, you gave me the best advise i could ask for. Really saved lot of money for me.  :thumb:


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

I agree with most of the above except the cannister part. Cannisters are a pain to clean compared to an AquaClear which doesn't even have to be turned off to clean. It can be done with every water change. As to lighting, the colour temp of sunlight at the equator at noon is around 5500K. The so called "Daylight" tubes of 6500K are bluer and more like early morning or late afternoon light. I prefer the look of 5000K light, but more important than the K temp of the tube is the CRI (Colour Rendition Index). Sunlight has a CRI of 100. The closer you get to that the more natural the colours in the tank will be rendered. Either temp will grow plants (although my success has been much better with 5000K), or you can mix them. While shop lights are available in both T8 and T5, around here there is a better selection of inexpensive tubes available in T8, so that is what I use. The T8 fixtures are also much cheaper, here.
Most of my cichlid tanks (6/7) are filtered using air powered sponge filters. There are many ways to do this. Some are cheap and some aren't. Being frugal (ok, cheap), I would rather spend the cost of a cannister on a complete tank set up.


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## partsrep (Mar 14, 2005)

Welcome to the hobby!
Whether you decide on a canister or HoB, just be sure to get enough filter to handle it. I would suggest anything rated for 500l since you have a 250l tank. In your original post you pointed to a smaller Eheim HoB and in a later post you reference the Fluvals rated at 100l or 200l and ask if that is enough. I believe you answered your own question just by the numbers. The Eheim Liberty 200 is much too small for you tank. The intake probably won't even come close to the bottom of the tank where you want it. Another link points towards AquaClear filters. AquaClear is a clear favorite HoB on this forum and for good reasons. I would go with at least two AC70's as a bare minimum. Two filters are always better than one in case of a failure. If you could do two AC110's that would be best or even a mix of one AC110 and one AC70. In the end I'm with FMueller and urge you to get a canister bare minimum a Fluval 306 but you will be better served with the 406. A Fluval 306 and an AC70 would be a great option. I run canister and HoB so the cannister can do the heavy bio filtering and the HoB I can change up chemical and mechanical media. I like to run sponges and Seachem Purigen in my AC110 and my Eheim canisters are loaded with Substratpro. You came to the right place for advice.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

I suggest you get your rocks and substrate outside of the aquarium hobby. Rocks and substrates for aquariums are grossly overpriced and it is not necessary to spend that kind of money. Go to a landscaping company or a stone mason and buy your rocks there. You can get 50KG of rocks for about $5-20 here (350-1400 rupees) in Canada so I assume the price will be similar there, if not lower. Also, for sand, try play sand or pool filter sand. Pool filter sand is a very good aquarium sand and you can get a bag for probably about 700 rupees if not less. If they have swimming pools in India, they will have pool filter sand.

Also, filtration wise, if you want a 65 gallon tank, I'd suggest an Aquaclear 110 and an Aquaclear 70. Or you can pick up 2 Fluval C4's.

The only plant I would put with mbuna and peacocks is Anubias. The leaves are pretty tough and can handle being nipped at. You don't plant it, you tie it to a rock with fishing line.





^Here is one tied to a piece of wood.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

I usually agree with Pablo on filters, but in this case I have to disagree. 2 AC110s would be my preference for this tank. Why? (1) I like symetrical things, (2) I like setups with interchangeable parts, and (3) more is never bad. Pablo will have to deal with it.

Most everything else you mentioned is either not neccessary, or driven entirely by personal preference.

Good luck!


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

dledinger said:


> I usually agree with Pablo on filters, but in this case I have to disagree. 2 AC110s would be my preference for this tank. Why? (1) I like symetrical things, (2) I like setups with interchangeable parts, and (3) more is never bad. Pablo will have to deal with it.


2 AC 110s on a 65 gal is a decent amount of flow. It would be better than my suggestion of a 70 and a 110, but in this case, I assumed the OP had a limited budget based on his comments.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

At the end of the day we both know either setup would work just fine.

Just MHO.


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## Vinodh (Apr 14, 2014)

wishes were filters, i would ride on fluvial canisters 

Billy: Thank you for the response sir, Lighting 10k and 14K only is available online, other lights seem to have no description about how much K it is. i guess, 10K wont cut it?

Partsrep: It is self explanatory indeed, i just hoped to could get away with little money spent.  Canister Filter is the single most expensive thing, higher than rest of equipment put together. But, that's understandable, since it is the important equipment and a German product. Not sure, its actually manufactured in Germany though. Thank you for the advise sir.

pablo111:
I have marble stone sheets in backyard, there are some left overs after the flooring. I can polish it and use it, if it wont the hurt the cichlids. Then there is half a lorry of river sand in the front-yard, it is sort of brownish or reddish, very similar to the play sand. I can just use sand filter sheet to take the finer granules and wash it thoroughly. Pool sand, i have never heard of it, but there are swimming pools, usually pay-for-use ones, and some rich people house. I will check with local stores about it. Anubis available online, most likely in a store as well, so il just buy driftwood and anubis plant. It looks very good in your video, i shall emulate the same. Stones are cheap though, i can afford it easily from aqua store, besides we get to choose it

Thanks for your counsel sir.

Dledinger: Filter is only concern i have at the moment, because of budget constrains. Rest of the things is not a problem. I can buy them all with no worry of over-spending. Thank you very much for helping me.

People, i am confused with filter. Can't afford a Fluvial canister, both 206 and 306 are above the budget. 2AC 70's put together are cheaper compares to one Fluvial canister 106.  Should it be very helpful, i can buy Fluvial 306, its bit extraneous though. There is difference of opinion among you guys to which one to buy, considering my budget limitation what would you guys suggest? I would like to invest on long-living and good filter that does the job. 

I appreciate and thank you all for helping me. I will get some pictures coming with my progress setting up tank.


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## partsrep (Mar 14, 2005)

partsrep said:


> I would go with at least two AC70's as a bare minimum. Two filters are always better than one in case of a failure. If you could do two AC110's that would be best or even a mix of one AC110 and one AC70.


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## shelbynjakesdad (Mar 13, 2013)

Vinodh said:


> Billy: Thank you for the response sir, Lighting 10k and 14K only is available online, other lights seem to have no description about how much K it is. i guess, 10K wont cut it?
> 
> Partsrep: It is self explanatory indeed, i just hoped to could get away with little money spent.  Canister Filter is the single most expensive thing, higher than rest of equipment put together. But, that's understandable, since it is the important equipment and a German product. Not sure, its actually manufactured in Germany though. Thank you for the advise sir....
> 
> ...


About the lights. The "K" rating is simply the "color temperature" and has no impact on the actual amount of light produced by a light. The higher the "K" rating, the more blue the light will appear. I prefer high K rating on my lights because I feel it makes the fish look better, but others prefer the lower K rating, which actually will produce more growth in the plants. It really is personal preference.

The marble and the sand you have should be fine for the fish. I actually prefer darker colored sand, it will appear much lighter under your aquarium lights. Just make sure you rinse the sand very well. Fill a 5 gallon bucket 1/2 full and run a water hose in it while stirring the sand until the water runs clear. This will rinse out the fine particles and prevent your tank from being cloudy when you fill it.

If you can only afford the HOB (AC) filters, then go with them, they are nice filters. The only problem is that sand has a way of ruining their impellers, so make sure your intakes are raised off the substrate or install pre-filter sponges to keep some sand out. I would go with 2 AC110's if you can afford it. More flow is beneficial to keep waste suspended and off of your sand.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

The need for fiscal restraint seems to be getting lost. One AC110 would be more than enough filtration. If you check stores that sell regular lighting the T8 flourescent fixtures and tubes should be available. Places like hardware stores. The K rating and the CRI are usually printed on the tube or the sleeve the tube comes in. Again, the CRI will have more impact on the colours of the fish than the K temp. Unless you can get one of the many cannister knockoffs from China, and there are many on Ebay, go with what you can afford, even if it is only an air powered sponge filter or two. As I said before I am not a cannister fan; not because they don't work, but because they cost too much and are a pain to clean. You can assemble an entire tank set up for the cost of a cannister for that same tank.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

BillD said:


> The need for fiscal restraint seems to be getting lost. One AC110 would be more than enough filtration. If you check stores that sell regular lighting the T8 flourescent fixtures and tubes should be available. Places like hardware stores. The K rating and the CRI are usually printed on the tube or the sleeve the tube comes in. Again, the CRI will have more impact on the colours of the fish than the K temp. Unless you can get one of the many cannister knockoffs from China, and there are many on Ebay, go with what you can afford, even if it is only an air powered sponge filter or two. As I said before I am not a cannister fan; not because they don't work, but because they cost too much and are a pain to clean. You can assemble an entire tank set up for the cost of a cannister for that same tank.


Why you hating on canisters, bro?


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Re-read the last line. For the cost of a cannister for a 75, I can put together a 75, using sponge filters, and including substrate and lights. That is the main reason. The other is they are a pain to clean. It isn't a matter of whether they work or not.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

BillD said:


> Re-read the last line. For the cost of a cannister for a 75, I can put together a 75, using sponge filters, and including substrate and lights. That is the main reason. The other is they are a pain to clean. It isn't a matter of whether they work or not.


I understand your point of view, but I think the OP should still consider canisters. They are more involved in terms of cleaning than a HOB filter, no doubt, but I wouldn't say they were a pain to clean. In a canister, you can add a large volume of biomedia that a HOB just can't compete with. That's what makes them a good buy to me. There are affordable canisters. You don't have to buy Eheim or Fluval. There's Aquatop and SunSun. I don't like those filters as much but apparently they work as advertised and you get way more media capacity than a HOB. Some of these "off brand" canisters are only 20-30% more expensive than an AC110.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

If the OP is stocking juveniles and can budget for more filtration down the road that opens up a lot of possibilities.


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## partsrep (Mar 14, 2005)

pablo111 said:


> BillD said:
> 
> 
> > Re-read the last line. For the cost of a cannister for a 75, I can put together a 75, using sponge filters, and including substrate and lights. That is the main reason. The other is they are a pain to clean. It isn't a matter of whether they work or not.
> ...


Good points. I agree, that just for bio the canister is a huge advantage. Buying used can be good too. I have two Eheim Pro II's that I bought each for less than the price of an AC110.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Whether a cannister holds more media or not, a cannister rated for 50 gallons isn't more effective than an HOB rated for 50 gallons. Both will do the job, one is more likely to be cleaned regularly. My view on the "best filter" is that the best one is the one you are willing to maintain. It doesn't really matter which it is, cannister, HOB sponge, or the one that requires virtually no maintenance, the Hamburg/mattenfilter.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

BillD said:


> The need for fiscal restraint seems to be getting lost. One AC110 would be more than enough filtration. If you check stores that sell regular lighting the T8 flourescent fixtures and tubes should be available. Places like hardware stores. The K rating and the CRI are usually printed on the tube or the sleeve the tube comes in. Again, the CRI will have more impact on the colours of the fish than the K temp. Unless you can get one of the many cannister knockoffs from China, and there are many on Ebay, go with what you can afford, even if it is only an air powered sponge filter or two. As I said before I am not a cannister fan; not because they don't work, but because they cost too much and are a pain to clean. You can assemble an entire tank set up for the cost of a cannister for that same tank.


good point re fiscal restraint. the op is trying to put together a tank as cheaply as possible.
and we need to remember cultural differences in income and for that matter what is available when helping others.

i hope and wish that you achieve your desired tank.

please post pics when you do,

ozman :thumb:


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

BillD said:


> a cannister rated for 50 gallons isn't more effective than an HOB rated for 50 gallons.


Those ratings are just numbers made up by the manufacturer - for both canisters and HOB alike. You can take them as a rough suggestion, but we all know you shouldn't take them as gospel. I wouldn't even begin to think that one canister rated for 50G is as effective as another canister with the same rating, let alone making such comparisons between different filtration methods. So much depends on what media you use, if you use a spray bar, a venturi valve or some other outlet, and son on, and so on. In the end, it boils down to personal preference. The members of this forum are living proof that you can successfully keep fish using any of the filtration methods currently available. Heck, some people even use UGFs and keep their fish alive. For me it is air driven sponges, including HMFs, for breeding setups, because they are dirt cheap, and super efficient. For medium sized show tanks I Iove canisters, because they allow you to take the technology out of the tank and make it almost invisible. For very large tanks (>150G or so), where multiple canisters would be required, a DIY sump allows you to return to sponge filtration. I have no time for UGFs, HOBs, and anything wet/dry or trickle, but that's just my personal preference, and your mileage may vary!


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

I thought Fluval was Italian?


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

"Hamburg/mattenfilter"

Huh, that's a new one to me. It looks stupid simple and I bet very effective.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

jeffkro said:


> I thought fluval was Italian?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolf_C._Hagen_Group

Hagen (Fluval's parent company) has headquarters in Quebec Canada. The guy who started the company was named Rolf. Hardly an Italian name. AFAIK there's nothing Italian about the manufacture or ownership of Fluval.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

As far as I know, Hydor is Italian - as far as any corporation is associated with a nationality nowadays. You might be mixing those up.


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## Vinodh (Apr 14, 2014)

Shelby: Thank you very much for explaining the details with light. I will go with T5 5000K, if its available, if not, its okay. Have to get what is available in 1 or 2 stores that are available nearby to my place
Partsrep: Thank you, I will buy C4 Fluval filter, it should be well within the total capcity of the tank. Should it be inefficient, i will get another with lesser capacity to support C4.
Bill: Special thanks to you for guiding me all the way, i will not buy canister filter, no need to break my wallet for it.

*Update:*
It's been very tedious with setting up a tank. Some stuff are ridiculously costly and it looks like daylight robbery.
I went to wholesale dealer and multiple aquarium centers, some of the biggest in Chennai, None had cichlids. lol 
So far, only credible place i can buy cichlids is from online retailer based in Bangalore, my city is closest to it. i will have to order it there. Please advise me with compatibility fish types. In this link, there are about 14 fishes total, I would like to get fish types as diverse as possible. And oh, there are some American chiclids, as well in the link.

http://happyaqua.in/fish/freshwater-fis ... n-cichlids

*Preferred:* Order of preference

Blue Johanni Cichlid (Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos)
Electric Yellow Cichlid (Labidochromis caeruleus)
Cobalt Blue Zebra Cichlid (Metriaclima callainos)
Kenyi Cichlid (Metriaclima lombardoi)
Red Zebra Cichlid (Metriaclima estherae)

*Except these three:*
Fuelleborni Cichlid, 
Venustus Cichlid
Red Badis Fish

Thank you very much men!


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## Vinodh (Apr 14, 2014)

I didn't realize there was another page. haha, until had to search where was my newest post. 

Ozman:

You are very right, I don't earn in $, so anything that is not made in India or China, and south-east asia is bit expensive. Also foreign brands in general are expensive. Eventhough, i am white-collar professional at a corporate office, local currency earned i.e rupee is very weak versus most international currency's. So, i cant afford even this canister, it must be cheap elsewhere for those who have just a tank or two for hobby. 

dledinger:

*Most cichlids in that link cost ~100 rupee's, which is about 1-2 USD, pound and euro. So no doubt, it must be juvenile. :thumb: I guess, its better for me to purchase something in which both and male females are colourful.* :fish:

Please recommend accordingly, don't want to end up having females of certain cichlid breeds that don't look colourful. :lol:


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Vinodh said:


> Electric Yellow Cichlid (Labidochromis caeruleus)
> Cobalt Blue Zebra Cichlid (Metriaclima callainos)
> Red Zebra Cichlid (Metriaclima estherae)


Why don't you set up a 55 gallon (200 liter) aquarium with these fish in it? 1 male, 4 females of each. The females are colorful in these fish.

Make sure the aquarium is at least 4 feet (120cm) long.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

fmueller said:


> BillD said:
> 
> 
> > a cannister rated for 50 gallons isn't more effective than an HOB rated for 50 gallons.
> ...


This is an opinion that is expressed often. Clearly, everyone knows more about filtration than the manufacturers. I think it is worth some discussion. Do you actually believe that the ratings are arbitrary numbers picked out of the air by manufacturers without any research or testing? Yes there are many variables, some beyond the norm, but if I am a manufacturer, I would under rate this type of product, not over rate.
I had occasion, a number of years ago to speak with Joe Gargas, shortly after he became head of R&D for Wardley. He operated from a lab in Florida that include three out door ponds. At the time he was working on a new filtration system that he said would be a big improvement on existing filters. They had 10 gallon tanks with several large fancy goldfish at 80F being filtered without issue. I believe the product did come out as the Hartz Mountain HOB filter with an incorporated fluidized bed. So, there was research done. I don't believe any other manufacturer did any less. 
If I am a manufacturer, I am thinking these forums are great. They help sell bigger/more products than necessary, which means more profit for me. This is a finite market, fuelled by discretionary spending, the help is appreciated. At the same time I would wonder why I paid engineers, designers and scientists to ensure the product worked, when there are all these experts willing to work for free.


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## shelbynjakesdad (Mar 13, 2013)

pablo111 said:


> Vinodh said:
> 
> 
> > Electric Yellow Cichlid (Labidochromis caeruleus)
> ...


I agree with Pablo, that would be a colorful tank, and of the species listed, these are "less" aggressive. Stay away from Kenyi, and the Mainganos may also be aggressive in a smaller tank. Keep in mind though that there WILL be cross-breeding with the 3 suggested by Pablo, so don't distribute any fry from this tank. If you want to avoid the cross-breeding issue, you can always leave out the Red Zebras and just stock a few more Yellow labs and Cobalt blues. In fact in a tank smaller than 75 gallons, that would probably by my choice unless you can find a smaller species like Iodotropheus sprengerae (rusty cichlid) or a Cynotilapia species, which would be compatible with the labs and cobalts.


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## Vinodh (Apr 14, 2014)

Pablo, Billy, Shelby-Thanks guys.

Quick 2 quetions.

Hang-on filters should be at the back of the tank for maximum utlization? or is it okay to have in side or corner in the front? There will be no space in the rear since i'm shelving the tank and getting cabinet is not welcomed by home-folk.

Tank Dimension:
Length 43 inches 110cm 
Height: 24 inches 60cm
Width: 18inches 45 cm

Tank dimension is good enough? Width is constrained a bit, other dimensions i can make it more, it is custom built, ordered from local aquarium shop.


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## Vinodh (Apr 14, 2014)

Confirmed Breeds.
Cobalt Blue Zebra Cichlid (Metriaclima callainos)
Electric Yellow Cichlid (Labidochromis caeruleus)

Liked- Salvini Cichlid (Nandopsis salvini)-This one will get along with above 2? and no mixed-breeding.

Other Breeds that are available

Albino Peacock Cichlid (Aulonocara sp.)
Blue Johanni Cichlid (Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos)
Blue Peacock Cichlid (Aulonocara nyassae)
Bumblebee Cichlid (Pseudotropheus crabro)
Electric Blue Cichlid (Sciaenochromis fryeri)
Fuelleborni Cichlid, Marmalade
Venustus Cichlid (Nimbochromis venustus)

American Cichlids
Black Convict Cichlid (Archocentrus nigrofasciatus)
Blue Jack Dempsey (Nandopsis octofasciatum)
Green Terror (Aequidens rivulatus)
Gold Severum (Heros serverus)
Green Terror (Aequidens rivulatus)

Rejected Breeds with shelby's input- Kenyi


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## shelbynjakesdad (Mar 13, 2013)

Of the species listed, the mainganos are probably the most compatible... that would give you 3 "mbuna" species, each from different genus to minimize the chance of cross breeding. This is usually preferred over mixing mbuna with peacocks/haps. I wouldn't mix in any american cichlids with the africans, and stay away from crabro, which are probably even more aggressive than kenyi.

Your tank size might work for 2 species, but I don't think I'd add the mainganos (or other any other species) unless you can push it out to at least 48"x18", which is a nice size (same footprint as 75g and 90g tanks). Height is mostly irrelevant when it comes to mbuna, 20" is high enough - they value the footprint/substrate area the most.


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## Vinodh (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi Shelby,

Which species is Maiganos? 
Other 2 species, cobal blue and electric yellow- 5 specimens each, so just 10 juveniles cichlids. I was thinking tank will large enough to hold more.

Thanks man

Researched about Hang-on, looks like slapping it on the side is fine.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

I totally agree with Shelby on this. You would be better off getting more of those two species. I'm guessing that you are getting juveniles that they will not be able to sex. I would go with 8-10 of each and watch them over the next several months. Through their behavior and your observation you will be able to pick out males that are not getting along or causing trouble and simply take them to a LFS. It is possible to have other cichlids in with mbuna, but not likely to go well in that size tank. I found that out the hard way. You will thank yourself later if you stick with the two species of mbuna. You could always add some syno catfish or a pleco later. Your combo will be colorful, active, and most importantly, work well.


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## shelbynjakesdad (Mar 13, 2013)

Oops, sorry... I read Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos and my mind automatically thinks "Maingano". True Johanni cichlids are different from Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos, but they are often confused. The difference is that Johanni are yellow as juveniles (and females) and are a bit larger and more aggressive. Hybrids of the two are also common.

About the stocking number... I agree with crazycolt, if you are buying juveniles, they will be unsexed and you need to get enough so that you will end up with plenty of females as mbuna are harem breeders - each male does better with 4-7 females. Do you have a way to re-home extra males? If so, and it were my tank, I'd probably buy 15 Labs and 15 Cobalts and remove any males that are picked on or that challenge your "alpha" males. Work your way down to 1 male and 5-7 females of each species. If you can swing a 48x18 tank and want to try the Mainganos, I'd probably go 8 Labs, 10 Cobalts, and 12-14 Mainganos. Reason being that Labs are the least aggressive and Mainganos are the most, you will want to have more females when dealing with aggressive males... just pray that the "Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos" don't arrive yellow.


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## shelbynjakesdad (Mar 13, 2013)

Oh, and I also agree with crazycolt - add a bristlenose pleco (or two) and synodontis (rift lake catfish) if you can find them. The bristlenose will only grow 4-5 inches and eat your algae and usually do ok with mbuna, just make sure its not a common pleco which can grow over a foot long. I have a group of 5 synodonis lucipinnis (petricola) with my mbuna and love them. They look like a school of little sharks patrolling the tank. They will eat fry produced by your mbuna, so if you want to raise fry, leave them out... but the adult mbuna will also eat the fry so its unlikely either way, but with the synodontis, very rare.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Vinodh said:


> Pablo, Billy, Shelby-Thanks guys.
> 
> Quick 2 quetions.
> 
> ...


If you can, please make the tank at least 48" long. That is really the minimum if you want to keep these fish properly.
18 inches wide and 24 inches high is not necessary. It would be fine to make the tank 12" wide and 18" tall. Even better would be 48x18x18. That's about 75 gallons.

Yes you can put hang on back filters on the side, the front, anywhere you want. But, 
1) it looks horribly ugly that way
2) aquarium hoods and glass tops, unless custom made, do not accomodate this.

So, if you want to put the filters on the sides, get a glass top that has a couple of inches of gap on either end. 
For aesthetic reasons, though, I suggest you make the tank slightly less wide than 18" in this case, so that you can fit the filters on the back. It will look much better. Nobody wants an ugly aquarium.
48 long x 12 wide by 18 high is perfectly acceptable for the Mbuna we've been discussing. And then you can buy (cheap) pre-made hoods and glass tops for the tank.

If the aquarium is 48"x12"x18" I suggest an Aquaclear 70 and an Aquaclear 110. Buy extra biomedia for both and fill them right up with it. If the aquarium is 48x18x18 I suggest 2 Aquaclear 110.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Vinodh, These guys are spot on here and you can't go wrong with their suggestions. I was thinking the same thing about the HOB. It is a matter of preference to an extent, but even if you were OK with a HOB on the sides or front, the glass tops and plastic backing for your aquarium are not designed to accommodate these things on the sides and front. Not sure you want to leave the top wide open either. Which goes back to Pableo's point about canisters. You would not have that problem with them. 4ft would be nice, but if this has already been made or if that is the max size, I would again suggest only two species and like Shelby said, go with syno's and a bristlenose pleco if/when they become available. If you can get it to the recommended size that Pablo mentioned you could do three species easily, but if this is your first African cichlid tank, you'd be wise to steer clear of some those highly aggressive species. Maybe the place your buying from will get some better options in?


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## Vinodh (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi guys,

The tank will be 48l x 18w x 21h inches. Custom built. I would prefer having this species in lesser number Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos compares to labs and cobalt blue. So is it okay, to have more of those two labs and cobalt blue compares to Melanochromis?

I bought Philips T5 tube light, it was cheap, 1.5 USD. Specs are 6500k, 2600 lumen at 25c, CRI is 86 or so i was told by area manager of Philips. 5000k was unavailable for me to buy. Next lowest K was 3500K, Not sure what CRI of it is. Please note, i live in hot and humid climate, so i'm not sure how will the heat generated light from the T5 will affect the fishy's.

Also, building cement tank, that will house trouble-makers. But i guess, that is another separate discussion.

Filter is C4 fluval, Aq-110 was unavailable, hence bought something that is nearest to the 250l capacity. Perhaps, next month, when there is need and money, i can buy another AQ with lesser capacity to support and offset the limitations of C4.

I'm making progress with setting up tank, hopefully i expect to finish it all in a week or two.

Thanks men for helping me to thus far. :thumb:


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## Gazedo (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm just curious, are your getting the tank custom built because that is cheap where you are or if its your only option? I ask because if its cheap where you are there is also the option of getting a sump made as well which could easily provide the filtration needed if paired with a good pump.


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## Vinodh (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi Gazedo,

Yes, its very cheap to build it, of course, im not building it myself, a professional will be doing it and labour is affordable compares to factory built. Factory build tank of same size will cost me 3X. Sump sounds viable alternative, but i have already purchased fluval C4.

Update
I am ordering custom build tank today, approx cost is 5000 indian rupee, which is about ~100 USD. After tank is made, have to make some changes to shelves to place it.

Tank size 48L x18W x 24H. I hope, this would be sufficient for Mbuna's


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## shelbynjakesdad (Mar 13, 2013)

That's a great size for mbuna, you will love the tank. Be sure to post some pictures when you start setting things up, I'd love to see them! :thumb:


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

For the species you've mentioned the tank is perfect size. They should do well. Good luck! :thumb:


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## Vinodh (Apr 14, 2014)

Hey All,

I had unexpected eye surgery recently, derailed the project since i had to stay in home. Now i am better, resuming the project.

Tank, Filter and accessories are ready- except for stones for which im planning to collect from waterfalls nearby.

Carpenter will be building cabinet for me, in future, if i want to have bigger species like Tanganikya, i can build new tank and place it same cabinet.

Please advise ideal tank size for tanganikya to house most of the species, length cant go more than 5 feet.


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