# Compatibility questions, Mbuna cichlids



## BetterMetalSnake (Jul 7, 2011)

Hey all,

Im new to the site but have been using it for reference on new world cichlids for quite some time. In any case, I recently came into a couple mature Mbuna's that were about to become homeless so I've decided to bring my 55 gallon tank out of retirement and attempt an Mbuna setup. The issue is both fish are mature, as I said, and as luck would have it they're both males: a very clever, very shy L. caeruleus "electric yellow" and what I believe is a Metriaclima zebra OB "clown" (pale purplish in color with black blotches and a bit of yellowing on the tail, blunt nose) whose big and mean. They're in my 35 gallon paludarium at the moment and while theres abundant hiding spaces they're starting to get restless. They dont get into it as much as I'd expect, in fact they pretty much avoid each other most of the time, but the Mz seems to enjoy harassing the lab a little too much. To sum it up, any suggestions for potential tank mates? Will these guys do ok together in a large enough tank? They were in a 40 tall together for a few years with minimal problems but im not a huge fan of "try it and see what happens" mentality. I can handle aquascaping, filtration, water parameters, etc, thats not the hard part. My issue is I only know enough about African cichlids to get me in trouble. Any help would be appreciated, as this project progresses I'll post pictures. Thanks!


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## BetterMetalSnake (Jul 7, 2011)

Heres a link to the best picture I can find of the M. zebra, hopefully I'm ID-ing it correctly. Again, thanks in advance for the help!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Can you post a pic of the suspected Metriaclima? The purplish part is throwing me off.

You'd want the Metriaclima in a 48" long tank. And then you would want to decide whether you want all-male (one of each, no look alikes, between 8-10 fish). Or mixed gender groups, three species 1m:4f of each.


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## BetterMetalSnake (Jul 7, 2011)

I'll try to get a pic posted by Sunday at the latest, the picture in the link I posted is spot on; looks purplish to me, maybe closer to lavender. In any case, yes the 55 gallon is 48" long, probably go with mixed gender if I can actually score females. The only decent LFS around here is an hour drive and caters almost exclusively to marine so finding decent stock is a constant battle. I had a good run at breeding Apistogramma and M. ramirezi when I had my blackwater tank set up and enjoyed it thoroughly so I'd like to try again. Any ideas for tankmates if it is actually a Metriaclima?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Metriaclima estherae OB maybe? And that could be a female? I'm not very familiar with the blotched fish.

I know Metriaclima estherae O cross with yellow labs, so if you keep them together you might not want to save fry. Or maybe the OB estherae are safe.

How about Cynotilapia sp. hara for some blue?


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## BetterMetalSnake (Jul 7, 2011)

Its certainly a possibility but I've never encountered a female that acts this dominant, but then again theyve been in unusual conditions for quite some time so nothing is really out of the question. Could be safe against crossbreeding but even if not I hadnt planned on distributing any fry. C. hara is gorgeous and is in the running, I'd also considered P. demasoni and C. afra sp. "likoma" for blue, my only concern is temperament compatibility; I've read articles stating that the lab will do well with these species but cant find anything about the Metriaclima. Any other color suggestions? And how about a non-cichlid species (besides Synodontis, loach, suckermouths, etc, these are just filler fish in my opinion)? Something attractive that can hold its own and tolerate the ph requirement. Again, thanks for the help it is greatly appreciated.


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## BetterMetalSnake (Jul 7, 2011)

Pictures!
They're pretty big but oh well. You can see the blue sheen in the second pic which leads me to believe its a male.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Demasoni work with metriaclima, but are a bit more work than most cichlids. Afra have drab females if you don't mind that.


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## BetterMetalSnake (Jul 7, 2011)

Ok so I may have a final list but I still dont know what to do with this Metriaclima. I've been considering:

-Ps. acei yellow tail--- between 3 and 5

-C. afra lundu--- between 2 and 4

- a few more yellow labs, probably 3

- and then, of course, the OB clown. Maybe a loner? I'm worried about him becoming superdominant with the labs though if he doesnt have any fems to occupy him.

bought close to 320 lbs of rock and moved the tank today, going to fill and scape it tomorrow. Silica grade 20 sand for substrate, Cascade 700 canister filter, 2 18" 15w life-glow fluorescents.

thoughts anyone?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

320 pounds  I don't even have that in my 72" tank. :thumb:

I'd skip the acei in a 55G (too big). I'd do 1m:4f of each fish you choose. And I'd choose the metriaclima, yellow labs and afra from your list.

You want harem groups and pairs, trios and even quads are less likely to ensure the health of the females.


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## BetterMetalSnake (Jul 7, 2011)

Ya I wound up not using the two largest pieces of flagstone (about 70 pounds) and didnt see the need for all the river rock so left out an additional 70 or so pounds. Its still a lot of rock though. Thanks for the input on the stocking choices, but heres a potentially silly question I've wondered about: Say I order 5 Metriaclima, they come in and 4 are males; obviously I dont want to keep them in my tank because of the aggression factor so what do I do with them? I have a hard time believing that the store will take the fish back on refund because not only are they a special order but theyre almost guaranteed to kill each other if they do take them back and put them on sale. Put an add on Craig's List and sell them at a loss? That doesnt seem like the best move either, mostly because not only will I be losing money but I live in South Carolina where fishkeeping isnt a particularly popular hobby... and even if someone was looking for them who would want 4 males?
What do you guys normally do?
Anywho, I'm going by my parents house this evening where I've got an absurd amount of H. formosa (least killifish) who will be cycling my tank, and hopefully they'll have enough time to breed like crazy and become a food source! Here are some pictures:


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## iwade4fish (Jan 5, 2009)

Only 320lbs??!! is my reaction......









Live fish for food, isn't always a great thing for mbuna: their diet in the wild is mostly algae and phytoplankton. Bloat could rear it's ugly head w/high protein.

Also, those rocks should be sitting directly on the glass, or at least not have sand under them, could shift when they dig, and well, use your worst-case-scenario imagination.

Like the two piles, and you have a PM.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Cycle with ammonia and spare the killi's.

To achieve the desired m:f ratio, buy twice as many unsexed juvies as you want to end up with females. So let's say 8 unsexed juveniles.

Chance of a female is 50:50. So with any luck you will have 4 females. And possibly 3 extra males.

My LFS and everyone who stocks all-male tanks are happy to have the males. You buy them for $2 or $5 as juveniles. But by the time you sell them they are adults (cause you can't ID males until then anyway). So you get more like $10 for them. No losses.


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## BetterMetalSnake (Jul 7, 2011)

hmmm now I'm reconsidering the killi's... I think deep down I just wanted something to look at in the tank until it completely cycled, plus I dont think they'll contribute to the bio load enough to make a difference. I'm guessing that phytoplankton are relatively low in protein? I know the Afra are mostly carnivorous so maybe I need to start breeding phytoplankton as another fun project. The rock setup may look precarious but there are support rocks below the sand level so I think it should be ok. I'd put in more rock but I was just worried about the glass being able to support that much weight. It is only a 55 gallon 48" on a third floor appt so a minor issue could become a catastrophe pretty quickly. I'll talk to my LFS and see what the word is about returns, last time I ordered fish they got very serious about it and made me pay up front! I'm also planning on putting in an airstone that I can turn on for a couple hours a day, mostly for surface agitation.
iwade4fish, I really like your setup! Whats PM mean?

ok, so the minutes for today are:
-return the killi's to their original home (I should have read these posts last night before introducing them)
-phytoplankton
-talk to the LFS
-more rock? (excited gasp!)
-check rock arrangement to avoid a very nasty accident

Thanks again for all the help and advice!


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

iwade4fish said:


> Live fish for food, isn't always a great thing for mbuna: their diet in the wild is mostly algae and phytoplankton.


This is a false generalization.

Labidochromis caeruleus and most afras diet in the wild includes a large amount of plankton, insect larvae, copepods......


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## BetterMetalSnake (Jul 7, 2011)

hmm interesting. I was thinking this myself because I know some African cichlids prey on fry when they get the opportunity. I think I'm gonna leave the formosa in there anyway, they're far too small to catch in a tank like that.


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## BetterMetalSnake (Jul 7, 2011)

Ok, so its been like 2 months since I've posted anything on this topic but life has been quite busy. I have, however, been working on the tank whenever time allows and things are shaping up nicely. Adding fish as my paycheck allows has actually worked out pretty well. My LFS is limited in what they can get so its been a little hard to work around in terms of finding one more species to put in the tank. Im up to 4 metriaclima with 4 more in the plans and 3 labs with 3 more in the plans. I'd like to get some blue/purple in there but am having trouble finding good tankmates (my LSF couldnt even find cynotilapia in their order book) so does anyone have any suggestions? I will seriously get some new pictures up tonight.


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## BetterMetalSnake (Jul 7, 2011)




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