# Altolamprologus Compressiceps "shell"



## karydas (Mar 21, 2005)

Hi everyone. I'm thinking of housing these amazing tangs and I'd like to hear opinions concerning their minimum requirement.

Do you think a 40cm x 30cm x 30cm would do?


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

I imagine a single pair might be ok in there but they might not act the way you want them to, I had 4 in a 30"Lx12"Wx15"H and it was fine with the odd rock to break line of sight and a few dithers, I had dwarf neon rainbows, they worked well as dithers. In a bigger tank you could have some Neolamprologus Multifasciatus also, they get along fine. I had sumbu fry swimming amongst the Multies shells, cool. They are quite shy fish but mine done ok in the 30" tank with dithers :thumb: 
There are some nice pics on shell dwellers forum , look for georgetax (also from greece) , he took his time and sourced them and his tank looks lovely :fish:

http://www.shelldwellers.com/index.php/ ... 077.0.html


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## karydas (Mar 21, 2005)

I think you are right. I should give them more space, maybe a 30"x12"x12" would be much better.

Thanks a lot.


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

karydas said:


> I think you are right. I should give them more space, maybe a 30"x12"x12" would be much better.
> 
> Thanks a lot.


Perfect :thumb: You could even put something in with them :fish:


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## karydas (Mar 21, 2005)

kiriyama said:


> karydas said:
> 
> 
> > I think you are right. I should give them more space, maybe a 30"x12"x12" would be much better.
> ...


If I went for multies, wouldn't they fight for shells?


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## papasmurf (May 21, 2003)

the smaller shell dwellers. I have a large male in a tank with haps/peacocks (needs a home) that has not been in a shell in years and the tank is littered with them. The smaller female I had would sometimes use a shell to get away from the male but in general they are frequently just as likely to live in caves as they are shells...breeding may be another story though.


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

papasmurf said:


> the smaller shell dwellers. I have a large male in a tank with haps/peacocks (needs a home) that has not been in a shell in years and the tank is littered with them. The smaller female I had would sometimes use a shell to get away from the male but in general they are frequently just as likely to live in caves as they are shells...breeding may be another story though.


I am 100% in agreemant with you, my ones tend to use rocks or caves, the female uses a shell to hide and/or spawn, they are quite shy fish.
I have nearly 40 juveniles in a 4' tank and they are real fun to watch but to be honest they really need to be moved on now  
Nice fish if you can get them, they are fine with Multies, just put shells at either end of the tank with some rockwork here and there to divide up territories and it should work fine.

On a similiar note, has anyone kept them with Caudopunctatus ?


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## kiaratrak (Aug 6, 2010)

Kiri - I want some  Why do you have to be so far away!!!

Also i wanted to pick your brains about these fish - you seem to have plenty of experience with them. But i dont want to hijack this thread lol - are you ever in chat?

:thumb:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I was just reading a recent article from Ad Konings on these guys, and he says the 'dwarfs' that use shells are just juveniles looking for a place to hide. They're not shell dwellers.

FWIW


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## karydas (Mar 21, 2005)

prov356 said:


> I was just reading a recent article from Ad Konings on these guys, and he says the 'dwarfs' that use shells are just juveniles looking for a place to hide. They're not shell dwellers.
> 
> FWIW


Can you post the link of the article here?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Let me look it up tonight. I believe it was in a recent fish mag and not sure it's online, but I'll post the source.


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## karydas (Mar 21, 2005)

prov356 said:


> Let me look it up tonight. I believe it was in a recent fish mag and not sure it's online, but I'll post the source.


Thanks a lot.


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

kiaratrak said:


> Kiri - I want some  Why do you have to be so far away!!!
> 
> Also i wanted to pick your brains about these fish - you seem to have plenty of experience with them. But i dont want to hijack this thread lol - are you ever in chat?
> 
> :thumb:


Just ask away :fish: 
I can only tell you what I have managed with the ones I have :fish: and other peoples experiences may differ :lol: , where are you in England ? I should be sending some down South pretty soon and it might be near you :thumb: 
I am contemplating selling a few over the next few weeks as I should be getting some new Tanganyikans :dancing: to go in the tank :dancing: and the remaining fry will have to go in a smaller tank :fish:


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## kiaratrak (Aug 6, 2010)

Kiri tell me everything you know from your experience - aggression, breeding, stocking levels, tank size, habits, feeding. Ultimately what i also want to know is whether they would reside with my current fish being my brevis sunspot pair, two caudos and blue goby cichlid. I have a suspicion that i would need a bigger aquarium but how big i wonder?

Im in Lincolnshire - *** just joined the UK Mikes Rift Board - I see they also have some but *** never used them before - i usually go to the store to choose my fish.

They are certainly interesting on profile


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## kiaratrak (Aug 6, 2010)

Kiri tell me everything you know from your experience - aggression, breeding, stocking levels, tank size, habits, feeding. Ultimately what i also want to know is whether they would reside with my current fish being my brevis sunspot pair, two caudos and blue goby cichlid. I have a suspicion that i would need a bigger aquarium but how big i wonder?

Im in Lincolnshire - *** just joined the UK Mikes Rift Board - I see they also have some but *** never used them before - i usually go to the store to choose my fish.

They are certainly interesting on profile


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

kiaratrak said:


> Kiri tell me everything you know from your experience - aggression, breeding, stocking levels, tank size, habits, feeding. Ultimately what i also want to know is whether they would reside with my current fish being my brevis sunspot pair, two caudos and blue goby cichlid. I have a suspicion that i would need a bigger aquarium but how big i wonder?
> 
> Im in Lincolnshire - I've just joined the UK Mikes Rift Board - I see they also have some but I've never used them before - i usually go to the store to choose my fish.
> 
> They are certainly interesting on profile


What's your nametag on Mikes ? I go on there from time to time, I bought 4 sumbu from Mike, they were much bigger than the ones currently avaliable, I put them in a 30"L x 12"W x15"H , there was already 6 multies and a julidochromis dickfeldi, not sure if I had moved the 1 caudopunctatus on or not, the mulites were already settled and they ganged up on the sumbu, after removing all fish and trying out a few rockscapes all fish were returned to the tank and settled in. The best set uo was 4 sumbu and 8 dwarf neon rainbows (used for dithers), ihad moved all the multies to there own tank , all males and all kicked the **** out of each other..
I added 2 young multies, I had moved on the dickfeldi but only because i wanted to make room inthe tank. 2 sumbu seemed to spend a lot of time together, i seem to recall that i thought the female picked the male, se then dug round a shell and used it for shelter, they dint dig much, I witnessed lots of courting and she eventually spent a few days fanning in her shell, be very wary, I dont know if it was because other sumbu were in the tank but thay ate the first batch of fry, best removing them from the tank. Point of interest is after mating/spawning the male will still hang around the shell for a day or two then he finds his own bit in the tank, when the female gets harrased by other fish or even a snail going near her shell she will do a headstand in the shell and wiggle her tail, nice bit here is her male friend will rush over and remove the offending intruder, I was successful with the second spawn and got a spawn from the other female at the same time, the second females shell was less than two inches from the first females shell. I lost the second female later, she got stuck in a shek , I think she was corting the larger of the two males this time, as a point of intereste here i had a large and small male and large and small female, it was the smaller male and female that pair up, smaller male appearing to be the more dominant one also..
They spawned a fourth time but i had a couple of young bristlenose plecs in the tank and i think one of them or the larger male (who was constantly trying to get into the fry shell) chased them out way to early, they were tiny crawlers , only about six remained in the tank for a few days, to small to catch, they all perished barr one which i still have and i am definately keeping for myself, anything that small and survives is a cool wee fish...
I have moved them between tanks a few times tryimg out different set uos and the small male and female always sit with each other, they are very shy fish, I found they were fine with a couple if mulites, they definatkey prefer duther to bring out the best in them, ie dark bands, blue grey colour. black fin yellow tail etc, they will display more and appear more relaxxed, i wouldnt put them in with anything to nasty or boisterous, i.e. leleupi, i had the two in a 48ltr and they just hid under a lrge piece of slate. no more spawns. i have them i a 4' with alk the fry (fry just a bit smaller than mommy now lol), see sig... in the next few weeks i will be adding cyos or paracyps (fry will be in a different tank) and i definately predict a change in their behaviour, i think after the oter fih w=have been in the tank a few weeks i might even be hoping for another spawn, they do not hold big territories and like to have a couple of shells near rocks, i found thats when all the spawning kicked in , the famale will use the shell and the male will hide in the rocks, this is not 100% accurate as i have seen both males hiding in shells, also have seen both maes sitting side by side and sharing cave , no fighting, males slightly agressive to each other during breeding, all i ever seen was them turning there backs to each other and flaring up, harmless, its cool watching them turn almost black.. when in dim light ir next to dark rocks they look there best.. you see the yellow tail and fins...
hope this helps a but, ill sit and do a wee juornal and try keep it brief, ie dates , spawns atc , tankmates so on, it might help... oh oh i forgot to mention a really nice part of the sumbu personality is if the female gets any trouble from any fish one of the males will rush to her rescue and chase the fish away, they even do this when its not there "girlfriend"

female in left male in right lol


















female fanning last spawn, note watchful male in background
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not my ones but mine came from the same batch so probably brothers and sisters aahh pics used by permission
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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Can you post the link of the article here?


I found it, but it's not online. It's in the Christmas 2010 issue of 'Practical Fishkeeping'. The article is 'The Slender Stalker', Ad Konings, p. 49. In it he says:

_In captivity fry grow exceptionally slowly and it can take three years to become sexually mature. Interestingly, the best chance to see such a juvenile in the lake is on the sandy bottom where they seem to hide in empty snail shells. Shell-dwelling A. compressiceps can be seen at various places around the lake. They are not common and I believe they are just sub-adult individuals which have temporarily found shelter where they can. When such shell dwellers are captured and kept in an aquarium without small shells they usually grow out to normal size. It the lake these shell dwellers often swim from their shell when threatened by a diver -- something a true shell dweller would rarely do. I think some divers deliberately hunt the cichlids in shell beds because I have never seen a shell-dwelling A. compressiceps hiding in an isolated shell like L. brevis and L. ocellatus. They are always found in groups or beds of empty shells._

Interesting perspective. In his 'back to nature' book, he lists a shell dwelling comp that only gets half as big as others, but in his 'natural habitat' book (a later book) he doesn't mention shell dwelling comps at all and he lists quite a few.


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

Cheers, I have seen that quote posted on another forum, another thing i read was that they will actually grow bigger in the aquarium than in the wils, similiar to your quote :thumb: 
at the moment there are no shells in my own tank, only because the fry are in there, once the tank is set up proper without fry there will definatley be a shell bed, cheers for posting :fish:


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## kiaratrak (Aug 6, 2010)

Thanks Kiri - sounds like they would need a three foot minimum then? Im wondering whether i could do an eventual upgrade of tank and house these guys with my current residents - the brevis pair, blue goby and caudos. I worry that the Brevis and Sumbu might not get on because of being shellies - but from this thread it sounds like there is a bit of a question mark over that? As you have seen i do favour the lighter brighter set up - for example i currently have the coral substrate and ocean rock - perhaps this would not be ideal. It makes me wonder what my alternative options would be if i were adding to my current collection and had more space..... hmmmm

Btw my tag is the same on Mike's forum. :thumb:

Perhaps i should just stick with what *** got and not upgrade yet. I have a feeling ill want to get a big malawi set up going next year and then ill be stuck with a redundant system and fish that need new homes. Its a difficult decision - i cant afford to have loads on the go like i used to :lol:


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

I know the feeling , I'm onto my third tank , and working on a project for my fourth lol
In the last few months I have juggled about a bit so not much fun, stripped and redone three tanks in one go just the other day, the four foot tank should be finished in the next few weeks. I was nearly getting 4 or 5 Caudopunks and a couple of new shellies for the two and a half footer, I'm stripping that tank in a few months and the fish would have nowhere to go... to many to choose from lol :fish:


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## westfieldnj (Nov 1, 2010)

I'm catching this thread a bit late but still want to add some input....

I have 7 Sumbu's in a 29g tall with 7 Paracyps. I think the ratio is something like 2m/5f Sumbu's and 4m/3f Paracyps.

I have rocks, caves, large flat vertical rocks and about 10 shell that I strategically buried in the sand around the tank.

My Sumbu's are almost ALWAYS swimming in the middle of the wate column with the exception of the largest male who has a hiding place that he often uses. They have all been in the tank together for about a month and all seem pretty happy.

The females more or less ignored the shells until a few days ago and it seems like one of the females have kind of claimed it as her own. No male interest in her or her shell yet.

I feed NLS grow once a day and they all eat it up. I supplement with cyclopese once every few days.

I'm not sure why my Sumbu's are not as shy as everyone else's. I suspect it's a combination of the fact that they were raised in a tank without much rock work (I think) and the fact that the paracyps are so active in the upper part of the tank.

In any case, these guys make great tankmates in such a small tank in my experience. They might not breed until they are in a larger tank which is fine for now. The only time there is aggression is when the alpha Paracyp male wants his area and a Sumbu is already there. A simple chase and it's over.

I love these fish and pay as much attention as I can so if you are interested in discussing just PM me or respond here


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

westfieldnj said:


> I'm catching this thread a bit late but still want to add some input....
> 
> I have 7 Sumbu's in a 29g tall with 7 Paracyps. I think the ratio is something like 2m/5f Sumbu's and 4m/3f Paracyps.
> 
> ...


They are definately my favourite cichlids, I think you could be spot on with your theory about them being grown in a tank with little rockwork, I have recently removed almost all rocks from the fry tank and last night I couldn't believe what I was seeing, all the Sumbu were up and down swimming all over the place, I think they would look good with Paracyps also, I have some ordered some and have been wondering how they would be with Cyps, I think they would be good dithers. They are interesting to watch behaviour wise I like the way they are very peaceful so can be mixed with similiar types of Tangs,,,
would love to see some pics. of your set up, sounds lovely opcorn: 
:fish:


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## kiaratrak (Aug 6, 2010)

Im loving this discussion thread :thumb: *** so much to learn still about tangs but this forum is such a massive help. Would someone be kind enough to post a link to the profile for the tankmate of which you speak as I sometimes struggle interpreting the abbreviated names used on here and dont want to look up the wrong thing :lol:

*** been going through the cookie cutter templates and all I can think is - big tank, big tank, big tank :lol:


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## westfieldnj (Nov 1, 2010)

The tankmate I'm talking about is Paracyprichromis Nigrippinis: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1478

And just in time for this thread I woke up this morning to the paracyprichromis spawning! My tank is a 29g tall so the dimensions are 30x12x18 in / 76x30x46 cm

It was really interesting to watch. The male and female would swim in circles around one another on the back side of one of my vertically placed rocks. The female would then place herself vertically to the ground but hugging the under side of the rock and release an egg, letting the current and bring it down to her mouth. Then she would chase the male and mouth is backside.

She seems a bit small and her mouth is PACKED. She can barely close it and it looks like her gills are being forced to be flared.

I'm going to do my best to get pics of the tank and this female asap. The issue is i'm in a room with a lot of natural light and the reflections make it impossible during the day.

I'll do my best to get pics tonight.


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## kiaratrak (Aug 6, 2010)

:lol: wow its all happening on this thread isnt it? Thats a pretty fish - are there other varieties that also fall into this group or is that the only one? I also keep reading about some of the feather fins and sand sifters and think they are pretty too....


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## westfieldnj (Nov 1, 2010)

well, are you still talking about basing the tank around housing the Sumbu dwarves?

The research I did when getting ready for this tank tells me that you need to have a pretty large tank footprint if you are going to have sand sifters. It's funny because I really wanted to get sand sifters as well. It's one of the fish I've always wanted but never been able to keep. I think consensus I came across was that you could keep Sumbu's and sand sifters in a big enough tank but it might get in the way of breeding.

I have no experience with featherfins but know they are a bit difficult to keep and need tanks that are a minimum of 5 feet wide, if not more. They are also extremely aggressive.

If the goal is still to keep Sumbu's, I think you're best bet is paracyps (nigripinnis is the only one i've come across) or cyprichromis (check out the profiles section, there are lots of types). For Cyprichromis you need a min. 55 gallon tank (i think) which is why I couldn't keep them.

I also came across threads where people say they kept Neolamprologus with Sumbu's but I don't have any experience there either...


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

I would not consider the Sumbu comps as a true shell dwellers but they surely are shell breeders,but then again many adult comps/calvus will choose a shell to breed in over a cave.I don't see how not having shells will make them Grow to a larger size, it kind of sounds like the myth of fish not outgrowing their tank/surroundings.I would like to see a pic of a 6 inch Sumbu if there is one out there.Also they seem much more peaceful than regular comps.I am keeping mine with some N.mustax and a group of young Tanganyikan killifish


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I don't see how not having shells will make them Grow to a larger size, it kind of sounds like the myth of fish not outgrowing their tank/surroundings


I don't think that's what he said, but I could see how it could be read that way. He's just saying if you treat them to a tank set up like you would for other comps, they'll grow out like other comps. But, if you keep them with shells when they're small, they give the impression of being dwarfs and shellies. It's just a perception based on tank setup.


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

dmiller328 said:


> I would not consider the Sumbu comps as a true shell dwellers but they surely are shell breeders,but then again many adult comps/calvus will choose a shell to breed in over a cave.I don't see how not having shells will make them Grow to a larger size, it kind of sounds like the myth of fish not outgrowing their tank/surroundings.I would like to see a pic of a 6 inch Sumbu if there is one out there.Also they seem much more peaceful than regular comps.I am keeping mine with some N.mustax and a group of young Tanganyikan killifish


You'll be waiting a while, the males max out at about 3" , my female is smaller than my Multi lol , I'll try post a video up of the fry tank soon, 2 males, 1 female , 37 fry, it's busy at feeding time lol :fish:


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

westfieldnj said:


> The tankmate I'm talking about is Paracyprichromis Nigrippinis: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1478
> 
> And just in time for this thread I woke up this morning to the paracyprichromis spawning! My tank is a 29g tall so the dimensions are 30x12x18 in / 76x30x46 cm
> 
> ...


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## westfieldnj (Nov 1, 2010)

Ok here we go with the pix. My fiance is a professional photographer, but I am NOT.... I did my best. Link to my photo album is at the bottom.

Regarding the dwarf discussion - I always assumed that the Sumbu's are a Dwarf version of the A. Comp... and considering they are documented to max out at 3" for males and 2" for females that seems reliable to me. Just because they are documented to be a dwarf variety of A. Comp doesn't mean they are shellies though. If they exhibit the same behavior as all A. Comp's in using shells until they are too large to fit in them (seems logical) then maybe it's as simple as that. They aren't shellies, they are opportunistic cave dwellers. It just so happens that the dwarf variety of the species can use the typical shell sizes we have throughout their lives. That was what I was thinking, anyway. A. Konings says Comps can be found throughout the lake using shells, but he does not state or imply that the Comps from the Sumbu collection point are NOT dwarf!

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welc ... M_sharshar


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

Very nice pictures, nice simple set up :thumb: The paracyps will use the sloped rocks at the sides of the tank then ? Very nice. The more I see the Paracyprichromis Nigripinnis the more I efinately want to add them to the tank. I would like to add some Cyprichromis Leptosoma as well but I think the tank might be a bit small :? 
Tank is 48" long and 15" wide and 18" high , it's only 12" wide at the top section as it has a sloped front glass. I have sourced another female Sumbu Shell to add to my group of 3 , and have sourced 3 Xenotilapia Bathyphilus so want to keep the tank as open as possible. :fish:










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Cheers for posting up the pics. of the Paracyps, I'll definately be adding them to the tank opcorn:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

kiriyama said:


> You'll be waiting a while, the males max out at about 3" , my female is smaller than my Multi lol


How old are they?

My p. nigripinnis


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

The Sumbus are proper adults, must be at least 18 manths anyway, all the new fish I will be getting are 4-6cm with the exception of the female Sumbu which came from the same batch as mine :fish: 
On your youtube post, very nice, I would love some of those rocks, next to your post is some sumbu by georgetaxt, he has some nice pics on shelldwellers.com also opcorn:


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## westfieldnj (Nov 1, 2010)

Kiriyama -

Did you remove the Sumbu fry to grow them out a bit or did you just leave them in with the parents and they lived? I don't have a grow out tank and I'm not in a position to set one up right now.

If you didn't remove them, what did you feed to make sure they got food? Crushed flake?


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## kiriyama (Oct 20, 2010)

westfieldnj said:


> Kiriyama -
> 
> Did you remove the Sumbu fry to grow them out a bit or did you just leave them in with the parents and they lived? I don't have a grow out tank and I'm not in a position to set one up right now.
> 
> If you didn't remove them, what did you feed to make sure they got food? Crushed flake?


I lost the first spawn, eaten by the male, I even caught the female at it , they were in a 30" tank, I got 2nd and 3rd spawns at the same time by both females, removed them very quickly, fed on liguid fry food for first week then crushed flake (more like a powder) , i cultivated baby brine shrimp for a while also which they thrived on :fish: 
They love frozen food, artemia, krill, cyclops, etc etc etc, I also feed brine shrimp falke which they love but I also add Spirulina in with the falke or feed on its own sometimes :thumb:


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## westfieldnj (Nov 1, 2010)

Thanks for the info. Love these fish but they sure are stupid.


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