# Tropheus Moorii Kaiser Ikola - What are they like?



## zebadee73

Hi,

I am thinking of ordering Tropheus Moorii Kaiser Ikola as I really like their colouring. Before I do so I have a few questions.

1) How agressive are they relative to the 'Blacks' 
2) In a group of 15 fish what is the optimal M/F ratio in your experiences 
3) Are they worth the cash relative to other more readily available tropheus? 
4) What are their general parenting skills like?

Oh.. to answer a few questions I may be asked, they'll be kept in a 4 foot 220L species only tank.

Thanks,


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## 24Tropheus

Not sure you will get a positive answer.
I know no one breeding these guys in a four foot or as little as 220L.


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## zebadee73

24, I know you have a view that 220L is too small to house Tropheus generally. That said what would you recommend as being the minimum if my intention was to breed the fish?

I'm loathe to spend the cash on a set up that is ripe for disaster but at the same token I would like to keep Tropheus.


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## 24Tropheus

For this type my guess (and its just a guess my group failed in quite a short while in a 60"x18"x18") would be 20 fish in a 60"x20"x anything over 15") But I have not had long term success with these guys. 
Why not spring for a 72"x24"x24" X 7 filtration and 30 fish and ensure success?


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## zebadee73

Sorry to hear that re the breeding group. I imagine it was an expensive lesson to learn in the end, an expense I'm trying to avoid if possible.

 Looks like the idea of breeding tropheus is dying a death before it started. But better to know in advance I guess.

The tank size is an issue at the moment at the moment as I physically can not fit a larger tank in the kitchen. There are plans afoot for a larger tank but that will take political manoeuvering, sweet talking and bribing 'her indoors' before it happens in the new house. So I'm stuck with the 220 four foot for the moment.


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## 24Tropheus

Nothing wrong with breeding/keeping Tropheus in a four foot 220L mate, just you may need to select a less spikey type.


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## zebadee73

Excellent, I though that generally Tropheus were all a bu*ger to keep and as such were all generally as 'spikey'. What would you reccomend in the place of Ikola?


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## 24Tropheus

Dubs or slightly pushing it a bit more Sp "Red".
Know dubs can work in this size tank.
Heard "Reds" can.


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## flashg

You mean Tropheus sp. "Ikola" kaisers right... I don't think they are a Moorii!!! They are one of my favorite tropheus though. 8)


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## zebadee73

Hi Flashg,

Re your question. One of the main European importers of wild fish from Tanganyika refers to the fish on their website and order lists as being Tropheus Moorii Kaiser Ikola? I'm not sure if they are absolutely correct but please let me know if they are to avoid further confusion.


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## flashg

It is mass confusion all the time my friend... I am going by Ad Konings identification method, but I think some older hobbies/importers think all tropheus are moorii for some reason... Someone correct me if I am wrong.


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## zebadee73

Thanks, by the way what's your view on my proposal to try a breeding group of 10 kaiser in a 4 foot 60G tank?

Is there any point trying to keep tropheus at all with the tank I have?

Tks,


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## flashg

zebadee73 said:


> Thanks, by the way what's your view on my proposal to try a breeding group of 10 kaiser in a 4 foot 60G tank?
> 
> Is there any point trying to keep tropheus at all with the tank I have?
> 
> Tks,


I have done it before in a 55g... I had six kaisers and 11 juvie dubosi in that tank. My only problem was that I was dumb enough to sell them for Christmas money for my kids...  Kaiser are cool and you should be fine man! (I had aggression issues until I put the dubs in as dither fish)


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## 24Tropheus

If you are going to try it with Ikola then I can give you a contact for good WC in Essex, a lot closer than your ?Holland option and good one, I think.


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## zebadee73

Better sell the fish for your kids than your kids for the fish 

Thanks for the info, really apreciate it from everyone and apologies if some of them are at first glance a bit dumb but better to be clear and opined especially given the cost and livlihood of the fish in question.

Thanks again.


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## zebadee73

24, I'd be interested in your contact. Drop me a PM and I'll call them tomorrow morning or later this afternoon.

Tks,


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## 24Tropheus

PM sent. WC Ikola about Â£17-Â£20 each is about a fair price on these. I think. :wink:


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## zebadee73

The Holland connection gaurentees they are F1, they are juveniules so not sure re sex etc but they work out at about 14 gbp per fish all in which is a pretty good deal


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## 24Tropheus

For real first generation from wild?
How can you check that is what they are?
Were the WC they were bred from really WC?

Whats 14 gbp?


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## zebadee73

According to the dealer who imports from Grant's they are pond bred from wild fish, you are correct that ultimately I can't check the authenticity of anything but the dealer is one of the key suppliers to UK LFS.

GBP, Great British Pounds as they are originally priced in Euro so I had to convert it back. I admit I run a risk by taking it at face value.


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## 24Tropheus

Not bad. TB Ikola seen 11 looking for Â£12 each, UK guy, so Â£14 ain't bad inc shipping.

Nice to have so many choices?


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## flashg

24Tropheus said:


> Nice to have so many choices?


Sounds like you guys have more choices in the UK than over here in the USA. Lucky buggers! NOt sure how to do this "$" in pounds on my keyboard or how to convert it to US currency. I think wild ikolas are going between $18-$26 over here and there is NO guarantee you will actually get wild fish!


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## 24Tropheus

Thats a lot cheaper than here mate. About Â£1= 2$. But the young here sell for the same sort of mark up, so there is a compensation.
We pay prices for some stuff you guys would not believe or tolerate.
Rubbish (many hybrids) TB Tropheus can sell in Lfs for Â£32 each in the well off areas!
Elec and power and fuel here is taxed very highly.
Kind of green policies, (when it suits the gov to rake it in? :wink: )
There is no garenttee or certification here either, not that we want it prob cost about Â£10 a fish if introduced but WC do look different to pond bred if you know what to look for.
Seen enough and been fooled so many times in the past, I guess I can tell by now. :wink:


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## cledus

For what it's worth, we have 16 Tropheus sp. "Black" (Kiriza) in a 40L (4 foot tank). Two AC 110 filters and a 235gph power head. To date have pulled a dozen fry from the tank and the kiriza are more peaceful than the red moliro. So far so good.


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## flashg

24Tropheus said:


> Thats a lot cheaper than here mate. About Â£1= 2$. But the young here sell for the same sort of mark up, so there is a compensation.
> We pay prices for some stuff you guys would not believe or tolerate.
> Rubbish (many hybrids) TB Tropheus can sell in Lfs for Â£32 each in the well off areas!
> Elec and power and fuel here is taxed very highly.
> Kind of green policies, (when it suits the gov to rake it in? :wink: )
> There is no garenttee or certification here either, not that we want it prob cost about Â£10 a fish if introduced but WC do look different to pond bred if you know what to look for.
> Seen enough and been fooled so many times in the past, I guess I can tell by now. :wink:


That stinks... Are you guys paying over $4 for a gallon of gasoline yet? :x


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## 24Tropheus

We pay about Â£1.2 a liter, work it out and it comes to about double yours I think.  
I guess its one reason WC are pricier here than at your end (despite us being so much closer to the source) plus there are not the same economies of scale in the UK, cichlid hobby is pretty small in comparison to Holland, Germany etc.


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## zebadee73

Well, I did it. I have bought and paid for 15 F1 Ikola, 12 females and 3 males. They are being delivered in four weeks time and as soon as they are settled in I will post photos.

Thanks everyone for your advice and opinions, I really apreciate it. :thumb:


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## IrkedCitizen

zebadee73 said:


> Well, I did it. I have bought and paid for 15 F1 Ikola, 12 females and 3 males. They are being delivered in four weeks time and as soon as they are settled in I will post photos.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your advice and opinions, I really apreciate it. :thumb:


Congrats on the purchase of your new fish. What size will they be? Because if they are under 3.5" they are going to be really hard to sex. So how they can guarantee you 3m/12f might be a bit iffy.


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## zebadee73

I am told that they will be 6 to 8 cm in length, should make it easier but apart from venting there is no absolute way to be sure.


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## flashg

zebadee73 said:


> Well, I did it. I have bought and paid for 15 F1 Ikola, 12 females and 3 males. They are being delivered in four weeks time and as soon as they are settled in I will post photos.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your advice and opinions, I really apreciate it. :thumb:


Congrats mate, that is bloody cool! :thumb:


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## IrkedCitizen

zebadee73 said:


> I am told that they will be 6 to 8 cm in length, should make it easier but apart from venting there is no absolute way to be sure.


Those will be 2.3-3.1" and even by venting it could be impossible to sex them at these sizes.


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## zebadee73

Hi Irked'

 I misread your post on the size of the fish, I thought you meant cm's not inches. Well part of the reason I ordered 15 fish is that I fully expect to have to sell some back to the lfs in order to get an equilibrium for breeding.

Tks,
John


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## shaky76

Hi John

Where you get these tropheus from and what was the cost?? Did you have to pay extra for the male/female ratio??

I've just bought 24 ikola juveniles about 4 months ago and i'm down to 19 but they have really settled now!! 
However i really want to be able to get another colony of a different variant and a larger size if you know the sex ratio.

Good luck with your new colony!!

Regards

Ricky


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## zebadee73

Hi Shaky,

Pm sent.


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