# cross-breeding labs / demasoni



## jibboo (Dec 21, 2005)

I have a 46g tank with a bunch of yellow labs. I have 3 females that regularly hold. Now, with that said, my dominate male died ... and I wondered if the next largest male would step up. So I assumed that he did as I had a female holding. If I have the time, I usually strip the female since I get a kick out of watching the babies grow out. So I stripped the female and didn't think anything of it. Well after a couple weeks or so the babies didn't really yellow up ... instead they are pale-ish and showing faint dark stripes. The only other cichlid I have in the tank is a single demasoni.

Is it possible that the demasoni bred with my yellow lab females?

If so, does anyone have any recommendation? I really don't want any cross breeding. I have a larger tank with bigger yellow labs which I could definitely put in a bigger male into the 46g.

Help!

btw: if anyone wants some yellow labs and lives near Mech, PA ... i'll gladly pass some along (I have plenty).


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## gmaschke (Aug 23, 2008)

Sometimes they don't yellow up immediately I currently have a clutch that looks just like you described and I have dems in my tank with them as well. But I actually watched them spawn. The first clutch of yellows I raised turned yellow quickly and I'd be concerned as well if I didn't witness the spawn.

The only difference between this 1 and the previous that I can think I did differently is I dont have a light directly on this fry tank so it may be them adjusting to their surroundings but not sure if that therory has any weight.


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## jibboo (Dec 21, 2005)

I realize they don't yellow up immediately, I've raised many a batch of fry.

I'm confirming that they DID cross breed ... not only are they not yellowing up ... they are now blue with black stripes.

Any thoughts or recommendations on what to do with these fish? I really don't want them to grow out and end up breeding with my labs. I don't have any fish large enough to make a meal of these guys.

Also, I did put one my larger lab males from my other tank into this tank with the 3 breeding females.

thanks in advance,
Nate


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*jibboo*
not entirely a surprise, but an interesting tale! Thanks for sharing...

Unfortunately, if you are not willing to raise those hybrids, the only responsible thing I can think of is to put an end to them humanely. Not a pleasant role to play, sorry, but we all face it one day or another if we breed cichlids long enough.


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## jibboo (Dec 21, 2005)

My friend always fed them to his larger Haps ... but I do not have any fish large enough to eat them now and he doesn't have his Haps anymore.

I really don't see any reason to kill them (they're kinda cute right now), I just don't want them intermingling anymore with my labs.

I guess I'll just take them to my LFS to keep them from propogating any further in my tank. Some of the fry are definitely blue and some are just pale yellow with noticeable stripes ... whereas my other lab fry may have some pale fish, but they do not have stripes.

See my friend always told me all about the evils of cross breeding and how all the cichlid faithful want f1 and pure strains (not that mine are f1 or some high level of whatever, but I like the bright yellow look) and that cross breeding was really frowned upon ... but I seem to not be getting much response to it here which surprises me based on his opinions.


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## Strohster (Oct 24, 2008)

I guess I'll chime in here. The hybrid thing is a tough one. On the one hand I understand the desire to keep the species distinct and "pure." That line of thought woud suggest disposal rather than taking them to the LFS as those fish will be bought and could further reproduce and muddy the line. (Though one has to wonder how much "hybridization" has occured in the wild over the years to produce so much variety and even similarities between fish within the same species.)

On the other hand that would be one cool looking fish, almost like a neon Mbamba, with the Demasoni brlliant blue and the yellow of the Lab. If I were nearby, I'd love to take them off your hands and put a few male hybrids in a male only show tank. Maybe we could arrange shipping in the spring if you grow them up. I actually have a Perlmutt-Crabro (crazy, huh?) male hybrid in my male mbuna show tank and he is spectacular.

I guess what you have to ask yourself is if you enjoy the fish enough to keep them or if you are so against hybridization that you want to kill them. But if they do go to the LFS, make sure you have them labeled as a hybrid so the buyer knows what s/he is getting.


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## jibboo (Dec 21, 2005)

Yeah, its interesting ... when I changed my water last time a bunch of my fry kind of escaped the baby net (clipped onto the side) ... I'm not sure how, but I'm assuming maybe some of the water was overflowing the top (I fill it really high because otherwise my canister filter doesn't run so well) ... which I'm kind of disappointed because a friend had given me an acei fry ... and now its gone (it was small).

Anyways, there's at least 3 fry with the blue ... and I think they've figured out that they like each since they are hiding together in some java fern and actually are swimming out and about together.

I don't mind growing them out because it will be easy to tell which are which and it will be a while before they get to breeding size anyways. Drop me a line in the spring and if you still want some, I'll pass them along. Now the downside is I've been told that demasonis don't like conspecifics (someone told me you buy 1 or you buy 12 ... because if you only buy 5 or 6 you'll end up with 1) ... so I'm not sure if these guys will have a problem with the demasoni or not. I'll see if I can snap some pics to try an capture their color right now ... pictures always make things more interesting anyways.


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## Strohster (Oct 24, 2008)

Much appreciated. I've read the same things about the demasoni. I'm picking up several (12) later this week.

I'll definately drop you a line in the spring if I still have room.


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## jibboo (Dec 21, 2005)

my single demasoni does fine with the labs. Sure, he chases them and what not, but he hasn't hurt or damaged any of them. I've also got some 3 yo-yos and synodontis in the tank (which seem to be invisible to the cichlids). I've got labs of all sizes from a month old, 3 months old and a year or so old.


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

jibboo said:


> I really don't see any reason to kill them (they're kinda cute right now), I just don't want them intermingling anymore with my labs.


You don't have to kill them, just keep them in a different tank from your breeding labs



> I guess I'll just take them to my LFS to keep them from propogating any further in my tank.


PLEASE DON'T THEM OUT of YOUR HANDS. Taking hybrids to the LFS just increases the hybrid population problems. Even if the LFS labels them as hybrids, you have no control over what that buyer does with them or who he sells the fry as after they leave your hands. This is one of the main reasons it is so hard to find pure strains of the common species. The hybrid traits ofen disapear in the next gereration or so if bred back to a pure lab only to pop back up in the fry of someone who was sold "pure" labs.


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