# Bio Kickstart?



## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Has anyone tried any of the bacteria producers.
Nitomax, Colonize, or whatever.
My sump is ready, just got my pump, would dowse my pot scubbers with something if it would really do what they claim. :-?


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## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

Is your tank new? If your tank is set up and running and has already gone through it's cycle then the tank itself will seed your sump with bacteria.

To answer your question, I have not used those products but I have heard that they work...


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## Mwinter763 (Nov 21, 2008)

Does Nitromax need to be added during every water change? I need to cycle my new tank (which has fish in it) and im looking for the safest and most permanent way to do it.


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## lou99 (Jun 20, 2005)

Bio Spira.


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

I am actually trying the Dr. Tim's One and Only Bacteria right now. I am 2 days in. A few more days and I guess I will know if it is working.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Thanx for the replies..
So many products promise so much, and deliver so little.
:roll:


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

I've used Bio-Spira a couple of times - as a test and in an emergency (I had to order it from the USA!) and it worked well, I emptied it straight into the filters rather than just into the tank.

Cycle didn't work when I tested it . I tested a EU version called Sol Bactinettes and that was a refrigerated product (as bio-spira was when I used it) with live bacteria cultures, that worked well but again I split the capsules and emptied the liquid into the filters... I'm pretty dubious about the efficiency of some products but there are a few that do work - I'd try to go for live cultures if I could, but with developments in the field I believe that non-refrigerated "in stasis" cultures have been developed that do work...


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## Lindsey Dindsey (Jul 14, 2004)

I've has success with Bio Spira in the past and wanted to use it again but it's not being made anymore. I just started to cycle my tank (last night) with One and Only as well. We'll see how it goes.

*kfig7* How's it going for you? I sure hope this expensive stuff works!


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

No luck so far with the One and Only but I think it is due to adding too much ammonia to the tank. I was using test strips to check how much ammonia I was adding. Was looking to add about 4ppm after using the One and Only. Well, I bought and used an API test kit and it seems the test strips were inaccurate and I added close to 8ppm. Well long story short I am picking up some more One and Only tonight to add after I do a big water change. I will never use Mardel test strips again


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## Lindsey Dindsey (Jul 14, 2004)

Ugh, that's too bad. I have a 180 gallon tank that I really couldn't afford to buy more of this stuff for so I was afraid to make a mistake like that. I only put around 2ppm of ammonia yesterday. I will up it but I wanted to give the bacteria a head start.

Now I really hope this stuff works. I wasn't able to find many user reviews on it, were you able to? Good luck this time around! :thumb:


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

Yeah there is absolutely no reviews on this stuff right now. With all the money I am spending on this stuff it better work lol. I am hoping its just like Bio-Spira because that has worked in the past for me.

I think I am going to stay around the 2 ppm mark as well. Oh and I found a place thats still has the Bio-Spira but now I can't afford it ugh!


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Seems like we might have some reviews going right here.
Just hate to throw money away on stuff that simply does not do what it says it will.
Good luck, keep us posted on any success stories.


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## Lindsey Dindsey (Jul 14, 2004)

Yeah Bio-Spira was great, I miss it.  But that is the reason I decided to try One and Only, since it is made by one of the Bio-Spira guys. I guess kfig7 and I can be the guinea pigs. Hopefully the happy guinea pigs. 

So far it's been about 24 hours since I dropped the bacteria and ammonia in, no change yet.


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## co-photo (Apr 3, 2007)

Hey Moto

Wasn't aware that BioSpria was no longer made, but it worked great for me two times.

If you're looking to cycle your tank instantly, and add fish immediately the "ready-made" bacteria products might be a good idea. But if there's not already a steady supply of ammonia in your tank (food and or fish) it would be a waste of money because the bacteria would die pretty quickly for lack of food source.

Best to seed your pot scrubbers with scum from the filters on an existing tank and cycle your tank slowly with a few fish at a time. Some might say a fish's poo could seed a tank, but with filter gunk so easy to obtain (at the fish store if nothing else) you might as well do it.


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

Update:

It is now the sixth day of using One and Only and I seem to be getting some results. Let me just go through exactly what I did.

Tank - 120 gallon 60x18x25
Filtration - 2 Fluval FX5's
Substrate - Caribsea Eco-Complete Cichlid sand
Rocks - Lace Rock
Background - Pet Tech HabiScape Rock Wall (http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/pt1040.html)
Water Temp - 84F

Day 1:
Had my tank running for about 3 days to make sure all my water parameters were ideal. Then I added 8 oz. of One and Only to the water. (2 oz. are for 30 gallons or so they say) I then immediately added ammonia to the water. I tried to get around 4ppm but I may have overdosed. Not too sure as my test strips were difficult to read and were not making sense.

Day 2:
Checked ammonia and it seemed to be at the same level as day 1. Darn test strips were getting me aggrivated so I went and bought API test kit

Day 3:
Checked my ammonia and it was close to 8ppm. Eeeeek! Through Mardel test strips across the room and did about a 50% water change. Tested ammonia a few hours later and it was 3-4ppm.

Day 4:
Continued to check ammonia which was still at 3-4ppm. Ordered some more One and Only

Day 5:
Checked ammonia which was 2-3ppm (assume thats good) and added 8 oz. more of the One and Only.

Day 6:
Woke up this morning and checked ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Readings are as follows:

Ammonia - 1ppm
Nitrite - 1.0ppm
Nitrate - 5.0ppm

I guess it seems to be working. I added some more ammonia to get it around 2ppm again and I will do more tests when I get home today.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Good job, *kfig7*. Thanks for doing this and keeping such detail. :thumb: I'm sure this will be helpful to many.


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## greenbirds (Jul 30, 2007)

Interesting. Up until now I was under the impression that none of the room temp storage products worked worth a ****. those who are trying these products, please continue to update.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

*kfig7*, just want to confirm that you haven't seeded the tank with anything else, correct? No filter media from an established tank or similar?


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## Lindsey Dindsey (Jul 14, 2004)

Interesting results! That's good news for me since it has been nearly 3 full days with no results yet. Since you added more, I wonder if yours will cycle faster though. Hopefully in the next couple of days I can report some good news as well. :dancing:


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

prov356 said:


> *kfig7*, just want to confirm that you haven't seeded the tank with anything else, correct? No filter media from an established tank or similar?


Nope, didn't seed the tank with anything. Half of my substrate was the eco-complete stuff which they say is like live sand but I really don't think it is. Maybe that helped? Not too sure. The one thing to point out is I did use a double dose of the One and Only. They say you can't overdose the tank.

Just took more readings:

Ammonia - 1.0ppm
Nitrite - 1.0ppm
Nitrate - 10ppm

Should I maybe put more ammonia in? Maybe like 3ppm?


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## Lindsey Dindsey (Jul 14, 2004)

I would put more if you are planning on adding a good amount of fish to the tank right away. That's what I plan on doing, waiting for the ammonia to drop and then I will up it to 3-4ppm.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Many Thanx kfig7..your documentation will really help me save a few $$$$. :thumb:


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

greenbirds said:


> Interesting. Up until now I was under the impression that none of the room temp storage products worked worth a darn. those who are trying these products, please continue to update.


I know the product says it can be kept at room temperature but I am not so sure it's such a good idea to do that. Both times I ordered it from drfostersandsmith it arrived wrapped up nicely in cold packs. I then stored it in the refrigerator before I used it.

If the one and only is supposed to be similar to the bio-spira then why would it be any different storage wise? Kind of weird. I guess its really hit or miss with this kind of stuff because you don't really know how it was handled before you get it. It was the same deal with bio-spira. Few times I bought it nothing happend probably because it was handled wrong.


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

It is now the sixth day of using One and Only and I seem to be getting some results. Let me just go through exactly what I did.

Tank - 120 gallon 60x18x25 
Filtration - 2 Fluval FX5's 
Substrate - Caribsea Eco-Complete Cichlid sand 
Rocks - Lace Rock 
Background - Pet Tech HabiScape Rock Wall (http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/pt1040.html) 
Water Temp - 84F

Day 1: 
Had my tank running for about 3 days to make sure all my water parameters were ideal. Then I added 8 oz. of One and Only to the water. (2 oz. are for 30 gallons or so they say) I then immediately added ammonia to the water. I tried to get around 4ppm but I may have overdosed. Not too sure as my test strips were difficult to read and were not making sense.

Day 2: 
Checked ammonia and it seemed to be at the same level as day 1. Darn test strips were getting me aggrivated so I went and bought API test kit

Day 3: 
Checked my ammonia and it was close to 8ppm. Eeeeek! Through Mardel test strips across the room and did about a 50% water change. Tested ammonia a few hours later and it was 3-4ppm.

Day 4: 
Continued to check ammonia which was still at 3-4ppm. Ordered some more One and Only

Day 5: 
Checked ammonia which was 2-3ppm (assume thats good) and added 8 oz. more of the One and Only.

Day 6: 
Woke up this morning and checked ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Readings are as follows:

Ammonia - 1.0ppm 
Nitrite - 1.0ppm 
Nitrate - 5.0ppm

Day 7:
I added 4ppm of ammonia before I went to bed on day 6. Tested the water this morining and had the following results:

Ammonia - 1.0ppm
Nitrite - 5.0 or maybe higher (guess its spiking)
Nitrate - Close to 20ppm

Everything seems to be looking good.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

We'll see how quickly the nitrite drops, since it's just starting to rise. I know in a tank with NO biostarter 
of any kind ammonia will drop in 7-10 days. So, I tend to see the glass half empty here instead of 
half full. I don't see that the biostarter has done much yet. The nitrite is the one that takes a long time to
drop, so that should tell us something.

I read an article once (I'll look for it) that said that the non-refrigerated stuff was simply heterotrophic 
bacteria, not the same as the bacteria credited for 'cycling'.

Found the link here.

There's a lot of info there, but a good read.

From the site:

_Heterotrophic Bacteria (which are generally found in most over the counter aquarium cycling 
products due to their portability) are usually aerobic, they can be either gram-positive (ex: Bacillus) or 
gram-negative (ex: Pseudomonas), heterotrophs (an organism that requires organic substrates to 
get its carbon for growth and development). Some are strictly aerobic, but many are facultative 
anaerobes (they can survive in both the presence or absence of oxygen). Another point is growth 
(which is why Heterotrophic bacteria are favored for cycling products); nitrifying (Autotrophic) bacteria 
will double in population every 15-24 hours under optimal growth conditions. Heterotrophic bacteria, 
on the other hand, can reproduce in as little as 15 minutes to 1 hour.
Unfortunately research has shown that up to one million times more of these heterotrophic bacteria 
are required to perform a comparable level of ammonia conversion that is attained by true 
autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, in part due to the fact of Heterotrophic Bacteria to convert many 
organics into food._


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## lou99 (Jun 20, 2005)

If you search my name you will see i had a simliar issue.

Tetra Smart Start worked for me with a large group of adult wild tropheus.

reduced ammonia to 0 within a hour and kept it that way ever since.

Bio spira has worked for me 3 times in the past as well
.


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## CichlidLover2 (Jul 31, 2005)

I used cycle in the past for 2 of my tanks and it worked just fine.

Now when I start new tanks I just seed from other larger tanks that I have. HOBs for the win!


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## Lindsey Dindsey (Jul 14, 2004)

I am getting a little discouraged with my One and Only. Today is day 6 for me, and ammonia is still at 2ppm, no nitritres or nitrates. I ordered from the same place as kfig7, and it came packaged with ice packs, was still cool when I received it, and I placed it immediately in the fridge.

I know (kfig7), you doubled your dose but the ammonia started to drop before you added more. So I expected to see something happening by now.  Any change for you today?


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

Darn, thats too bad Lindsey Dindsey  . Maybe its just hit or miss with this stuff. Maybe tomorrow will be the lucky day for ya.

No change today. My nitrites are still spiking. I keep having to add ammonia about twice a day as its disappearing so quick. Once the nitrites drop I will post it here.


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

Is it common for the ammonia to disappear so quickly? I add about 3ppm of ammonia and about 6 hours later it's all gone.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

kfig7 said:


> Is it common for the ammonia to disappear so quickly? I add about 3ppm of ammonia and about 6 hours later it's all gone.


Yes, that's not unusual. You really don't need to add it again the moment it drops and I'd probably 
recommend against it. You're just driving your nitrites through the roof unnecessarily. Checking and 
adding every 24 hours is fine. The bacteria aren't that fragile that they start to die off as soon as 
ammonia drops IME. I've done this many times and never added more often than once per 24 hour 
period.


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

Thank you prov356. I better stop adding the ammonia then lol. Was doing it twice a day. I will just do it every morning now.


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

Quick question:

Seems my nitrites are still spiking but I just did a test on my nitrate and they are really high. Its about 80ppm. Is this normal or did I screw things up by adding ammonia twice a day? Should I maybe do a water change? If so how much?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I'd focus on your nitrites right now. There's time to deal with the nitrates at the end of this. Also, 
most test kits like the API, when measuring nitrates are really measuring nitrite + nitrate. So, 
that test really isn't meaningful until nitrites drop.


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

Ok cool! Thanks again prov356


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

kfig7 said:


> Background - Pet Tech HabiScape Rock Wall (http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/pt1040.html)
> .


hows that background working out? got any pics?


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## Lindsey Dindsey (Jul 14, 2004)

kfig7 said:


> Darn, thats too bad Lindsey Dindsey  . Maybe its just hit or miss with this stuff. Maybe tomorrow will be the lucky day for ya.


Thanks, but today was day 8 and still nothing. So I am pretty much assuming that it is not going to do anything for me. I do have another tank that I would have used the bacteria from but I have had some illness issues in it lately so obviously I don't want to use any filter media from that tank right now. I guess I'll just have to wait it out but I am thinking it is going to be a long cycle for me. 

I am glad someone is having some success though. =D>


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

TrashmanNYC said:


> kfig7 said:
> 
> 
> > Background - Pet Tech HabiScape Rock Wall (http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/pt1040.html)
> ...


Background is working out nice. I will take some pics tonight and post them.


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

Heres some pics. Not too happy with the substrate. Wish I used something darker and more natural. I guess its too late now 

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq32 ... CF2094.jpg
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq32 ... CF2093.jpg
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq32 ... CF2089.jpg
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq32 ... CF2088.jpg
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq32 ... CF2085.jpg


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

Update:

Day 11:

Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - .50ppm
Nitrate - 80ppm

Nitrites seem to be dropping


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Yup, you're almost done. 11 days is better than 4-6 weeks. What you've seen this product do is 
comparable to what I've seen when seeding with media from another tank.


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

Update:

Not so sure the One and Only is doing anything.

My day 11 reading must of been wrong because my Nitrite is still off the charts on day 14 today.
When I used Bio-Spira in the past I would just about be cycled already. I would venture to say that this One and Only is definitely not the same stuff as Bio-Spira.

Guess I'll just keep adding my daily dose of ammonia and wait for these nitrites to start dropping 

Oh I also did a water change about 50% but the nitrites stayed the same.


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## EHEIMFAN (Dec 13, 2008)

I use BIOZYME, it has an unlimited shelf life. It's a powder form that comes in little containers. They have one for freshwater and one for saltwater. This stuff activates immediately, it has the proper bacterias and enzymes in it.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Update:
> 
> Day 11:
> 
> ...


I thought your nitrite was at .5ppm and dropping. :-?


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## kfig7 (Nov 24, 2008)

prov356 said:


> > Update:
> >
> > Day 11:
> >
> ...


Yeah me to. Think I may have tested it wrong for some reason that day :-?


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## Lindsey Dindsey (Jul 14, 2004)

kfig7 said:


> I would venture to say that this One and Only is definitely not the same stuff as Bio-Spira.


Yeah I agree! I am still at nothing on day 12. I wonder if I did something wrong that is not allowing the bacteria to grow or something. Don't know what though :-? How long does it take for ammonia to drop during a fishless cycle without adding bacteria?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> How long does it take for ammonia to drop during a fishless cycle without adding bacteria?


About 10 - 14 days, but can vary. Not looking good for One and Only. There's little, short of adding 
chlorine bleach, that you can do to keep the nitrifiying bacteria from multiplying. I wouldn't blame it on 
anything you did wrong. To be fair, you might try contacting the manufacturer and give them a chance 
to offer an explanation. But, I might also mention to them that you and another are testing their product 
and reporting results online.


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## CichlidLover2 (Jul 31, 2005)

EHEIMFAN said:


> I use BIOZYME, it has an unlimited shelf life. It's a powder form that comes in little containers. They have one for freshwater and one for saltwater. This stuff activates immediately, it has the proper bacterias and enzymes in it.


I have some of this stuff, how does it work exactly.


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## EHEIMFAN (Dec 13, 2008)

CichlidLover2 said:


> EHEIMFAN said:
> 
> 
> > I use BIOZYME, it has an unlimited shelf life. It's a powder form that comes in little containers. They have one for freshwater and one for saltwater. This stuff activates immediately, it has the proper bacterias and enzymes in it.
> ...


 It has the bacterias to break down ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. Breaks down a lot of organic buildup. Use 1/8 teaspoon for 25 gallons. For newly setup aquariums use daily for seven days, after that add dosage once per week. I only use it after I clean my filter and aquarium and do a partial water change.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Unless I am missing something, it could happen :wink: 
I see no real value to any of the bio starters, other than already functioning filter media. No real time saver versus dollars spent over the "old tried and true" methods.
Thanx to all for the responses :thumb:


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## urticina (Dec 16, 2008)

Hello all. I used Tetra Safestart with fantastic results. I used it in a 30 gallon grow out tank with great results. I let it work overnight and and then put fish in the next day. After two months I have yet to have a problem.

I also used it in an emergency tank set up. I went to the store, bought the safestart, put it in the tank, put the fish in the tank, and it is still up and running with no problems.

I am not very organized so I did not write down the numbers, but at my last change ammonia was zero, nitrites were zero, and nitrates were zero.

I am setting up a 90 gallon this weekend and will use safestart, if you would like I will write down the numbers and post them. With my experience in the two smaller tanks I am not worried at all about using this product.

If I remember correctly the bottle actually suggests putting fish in right away for best results, but don't quote me on this, it has been over a month since I set up my emergency tank.

The one drawback is in the thirty or so fish stores I have been in since I started running aquariums again (I travel a lot) this product has only been in two of them, but you can get it online. Oh, and it is not the most economical way to start a tank. For the size that will work for a 75 gallon tank it is about $25 at my LFS. Online I found it for $16, but with shipping it was about the same and I would rather support my LFS.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I will write down the numbers and post them


That would be necessary to determine if it really works. When you say you 'had no problems', does that 
mean 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite from day 1? Unless it does, it exposes fish to potentially harmful levels. 
They may not die, but be damaged. If Tetra SafeStart will allow for addition of fish right away with no 
ammonia or nitrite spikes, it would be the *only *product out there that does that, so I'm a bit 
skeptical.


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## frozennorth (Dec 16, 2008)

urticina said:


> I am not very organized so I did not write down the numbers, but at my last change ammonia was zero, nitrites were zero, and nitrates were zero.


If you have no nitrates I don't think your tank is cycled. The only way it could be so low is if you changed most of the water.


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## lcosme (Jan 21, 2005)

I sucessfully started Tropheus tanks with both Smarstart and Biospira (3x)


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## urticina (Dec 16, 2008)

If anybody has checked back to see what my 90 gallon tank did with Safestart I actually held off and I am going to do a test with Safestart on a smaller tank. I will post numbers next week or as they come in. I talked to the owner of the LFS where I purchased the Safestart and he told me the rep says for optimum colonization of bacteria to wait 48 hours before adding fish. As I mentioned in my previous post I have used it twice with no repecussions, but as others have mentioned afterward I still may have been putting my fish through some stress by adding them so quickly. That is why I decided to hold off and do a test to see how the numbers actually come out.

As far as my nitrates reading zero they still do, but that tank has now been set up for three months. Does anybody know why this could be? If it hasn't cycled yet wouldn't I have ammonia or nitrite readings? As far as the tank goes I do a 50% water change each week on an overstocked tank and there is a ton of algea on the rocks. It is a pain because I have to clean the glass often, but I love having nice bright green algae on the rocks and the fish love it too (especially the polit fry (about 1 inch)). I have taken some fish out of this tank and now it is no longer overstocked. I would love to hear any ideas. Thanks.

mark


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> As far as my nitrates reading zero they still do, but that tank has now been set up for three months. Does anybody know why this could be?


Gotta be inaccurate test results. Either the kit is bad or the bottles aren't being shaken enough, etc. If 
you've got an overstocked tank with lush green algae, you've got nitrates.


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## urticina (Dec 16, 2008)

Thanks. I shook the heck out of that bottle this time and got a reading of between 5 and 10 ppm. I shook it for the amount specified on the instructions before, I guess I just wasn't virgerous enough. Doesn't make much since to shake that vigirously to me (and I tutored chemestry for three years in college), but I finally got a reading so if it works it works.

Mark


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## bobberly1 (Dec 2, 2006)

I just squeeze media from one of my tanks in. Works fine.


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