# Cichlasoma salvini



## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

Hello,

I have a 1m, 200l tank with 2 Panaque maccus and 1 Platydoras costatus, all 11-12years old now. A couple days ago i added a Cichlasoma salvini. It has not shown aggression so far but it picked on my Panaque maccus the first day, damaging his tail fin(not extensively but enough). It does not chase the pleco but rather turns toward him and bites once in a feeding or curious way. The salvini passes by the place many times, ignoring him and only rarely does it bite but it does so and it worries me. The pleco sometimes chase the salvini away, other times he sits still. Will this behaviour resolve and all live happily? Anything i can do to help things resolve? Its a beautiful and clever cichlid but i don't want to risk my favourite catfishes.

I also plan on adding an Archocentrus multispinosus. Would it be fine or asking for serious trouble?

Here is the beauty


Thank you very much in advance


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## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

Its also sitting all day by Platydoras's hideout and going in and out all the time, like its picking on it. Aren't they supposed to leave catfish alone?


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## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

Things seem to have calmed down and i see no more damage on the place's fins. Salvini is liking the tank big time and is pretty calm/peaceful now, but a little skittish, maybe because its still new and doesn't know us and there are no dithers. Still, it cruises the tank out of cover now and then and comes out fast at feeding time. It loves food and knows it comes from me. It watched me through the whole process of opening the cabinet, bringing out the food, getting out the pellets and then throwing them one by one. It likes the process 

Here are a couple better photos




Should i add dithers(i don't want to) or an Archocentrus multispinosus? Or should i not add anything now that the salvini is settled and does not annoy the other fish from as much as i can see? I am pretty content with the current stock(one cichlid is enough for me if it can feel happy and cruise the tank/interact with me) and only want to add a couple more Panaque maccus and/or Ancistrus L189. Will the salvini eventually settle and not be afraid every time its out in the open? Half the tank has heavy plant and wood cover, and he prefers that part
Of course i wouldn't mind a rainbow cichlid as well, but don't want to get into problems with torn fins every now and then or worse. I like all fish be in perfect condition.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

What are the exact tank dimensions? 100 cm in length?

Salvini are quite aggressive. The Multispinosus is a timid CA cichlid. Not a good combo. With only 2 cichlids in a tank, you're likely to have problems. Although the salvini is new and young, it will see a newcomer as a threat and will probably harass it; maybe to death.


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## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

The tank is 1m by 40cm width and 50height, well planted and with lots of wood.

Is there a way to make it work with a rainbow and salvini in my tank? I could add another cichlid as well but I think the tank is too small for 3 cichlids of this size plus my planned catfish additions
If it cannot work, would the single salvini do well with my catfish long term? It's currently 10cm easily. I was thinking that another cichlid in the tank will keep it busy and not thinking of the catfish when bored for example.
It's somewhat nervous when it's out of the plant and wood cover. Will it eventually settle and be happy being out without dithers?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I wouldn't mix Salvini with Rainbows in a 6' tank. 
Another cichlid will definitely keep the Salvini busy, but probably only long enough until the other fish is dead. Only cichlid that comes to mind and won't outgrow the tank would be the Convict. Even then, only 2 cichlids in a tank is asking for trouble.
I'd take a gamble and try some fast and robust tetras like Buenos Aires. That should keep the Sal busy and more likely to feel more comfortable.
With the tank size, a group of Rainbow cichlids would be so much more interesting. You could have several fish and witness some pairing and spawning action.


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## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

Thank you very much for your reply!
I see... What if adding 1 rainbow and 1 firemouth or blue Acara? 
I have lots of plants, so I can't keep buenos Aires tetra, they are plant eaters. 
I understand the rainbow would be an easier choice for having other tankmates. As long as the salvini does not harass the current tankmates, I am pretty content with the current setup and stock. I have kept and bred smaller cichlids(Microgeophagus, Apistogramma) and I am not that much into breeding cichlids in this tank(plecos and Platydoras always eat the eggs), just plecos(whose eggs never get eaten) but would rather have a personable cichlid interested in the outside world rather than more fish swimming around. Salvini has been very clever and personable so far, I have come to like it a lot already, so I would prefer to keep it than change to rainbows now, unless salvini annoys the catfish.


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## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

Some photos of the aquarium 










And a couple photos taken today of the salvini




It had recently eaten, so belly was full...I try to feed relatively little but it's a voracious eater


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Well I'd say to just monitor the Sal with the cats for now. Since it's only been a few days it's too early to tell if the frequent hiding will persist. Just make the change if too much aggression is focused on the cats.

That's pretty cool you've had the cats for that long. I'd be protective of them as well.


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## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

Yes, I agree, this is barely enough time for a fish to acclimate, how much more settle in, get to know the tank, the people, etc...Even catfish cease being afraid after some months/years, so I guess it should also see it has nothing to be afraid of.

I will keep monitoring the salvini(it's easier as the tank is in my office) and see how his temperament is unveiled and if it's totally cool with the catfish or gets pesky. If it does, I will certainly make the change, catfish have always come first to me and are also full of character. Cichlids show it faster only due to being faster at overcoming their fear and having different swimming habits.
These catfish were my 2nd and 3rd fish when I started keeping tropical fish


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Kostas G said:


> Aren't they supposed to leave catfish alone?


When there are no other cichlids in the tank, aggressive cichlids often will focus excessively on whatever bottom feeders are in the tank.
IMO and IME, corydoras seldom fair well in tanks with aggressive cichlids. They are too timid and end up getting bullied.
Just 2 cichlids in a tank is generally an unworkable number. 5-6 is about the minimum to have any reasonable chance of success.
Unlikely for the salvini to ever feel all that comfortable in a tank with out numerous tank mates. IME, adults tend to be even more scared and skittish, unless kept in an active community tank with many other fish.
IMO, salvini is probably not a good choice for this tank. Rainbow cichlids, a much better chance of making a compatible tank mate with a corydora.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Sorry, I some how originally read corydoras. A Raphael cat quite different. Virtually indestructible, and IMO and IME quite suitable tank mate for aggressive cichlids. The Panaque, not too sure how they do; never owned one nor familiar with them. 
Your salvini is a female, so in general usually considerably less aggressive then a male. I think the issue might become tank size and being able to choose enough suitable cichlid tank mates to make a community work. IMO, with a female salvini, convicts could be one choice.


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## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

Thank you very much for your reply and information, I very much appreciate your insight 

It's great to hear salvini should work ok with my Platydoras. The Panaque are ok too, haven't been damaged again since the first day and are not afraid to chase the salvini away. It's good my salvini is a female and I am especially happy it's so so blue. Quite unusual for what I usually see around as salvini. The smaller final size is good for the tank and fish shape is more appealing to me as well.

I was suspecting 2 cichlids might be trouble but was hoping its workable. Thanks for letting me know it always leads to trouble. I guess it's not worth trying it with a rainbow at all then.? The tank is too small for 5-6 cichlids of this size, so the most likely solution would be to keep it alone with the catfish. I am pretty content with that if there is not much else that can be added, as long as everyone will be happy when salvini is adult as well. So far so good and it's getting acquainted and acclimated in its tank, being less and less afraid of things. It was out when I was cleaning the glass from the outside today, to see if the paper I was holding on the outside is edible... Haha, funny fish, but like it a lot.
The people at my office have named her Bella...


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Kostas G said:


> It's good my salvini is a female and I am especially happy it's so so blue.


Actually, I'm only about 95% sure it is a female. Your last 2 pictures appear to show a dorsal blotch/spot which is usually a very reliable indicator of sex, for salvinis. But of course there are always a few odd exceptions. As well, the black spot at the edge of the gill plate is typically a female trait and usually absent on males....though this is a less reliable indicator then the dorsal spot/blotch.
What makes me less certain on it's sex is it's coloration.....it's coloration is much more consistent with a male. But like many cichlids are very chameleon-like, so I'm thinking it's color has more to do with the mood/state the fish is in, and not really settled in yet.


BC in SK said:


> Unlikely for the salvini to ever feel all that comfortable in a tank with out numerous tank mates. IME, adults tend to be even more scared and skittish, unless kept in an active community tank with many other fish.


I think you might be over looking this.
IMO and IME, mbuna make good tank mates for salvini ( one eg. yellow labs). If you are not considering adding any other cichlids, some kind of " schooling dither" would be worth a try, IMO. Beunos aires tetra has been suggested, though I tend to think giant danios would have a better chance. IME they did quite well with salvini.....though I must say they all ended up being swallowed whole eventually, by my female salvinis . Long term success could depend on who grows quickest. I've had good success keeping blue/gold/opaline gourami with salvini. A small group might be worth a try, though hard to predict to what extent a salvini might focus on them in the absence of other cichlids.


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## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

Thank you very much for your reply! 

Thank you for letting me know how you sexed it! The anal fin seems somewhat rounded at the edge, not too pointed, which would add to the probabilities of it being female. I really like its predominantly brown and blue coloration, as it quite reminds of Green Terror, which is a favourite. 
I can attest to the chameleon-like ability to change colours at will! When we caught it at the LFS, it immediately went yellow with a black strip while in the net. It was blue again shortly after getting it in the bag. I think it choses the yellow coloration as its stress coloration and keeps the blue when ok. This particular specimen at least as most i see for sale have quite a bit or yellow rather than blue.

I do am considering adding something, wether cichlid or dither, but i don't see it working. The Buenos aires tetra are plant eaters and can't add them(the tank has lots of plants) and i wouldn't like adding fish from other continents in this tank. The good thing is that its settling nicely and is frequently out swimming calmly in the tank. The tank is at the reception of my company and thus sees medium traffic around it, but i think its settling pretty fast for this environment. The plea


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## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

Edit cut me out...

The pleasant thing is that it's behaving the way a settling in Microgeophagus altispinosa would behave and should get fully settled soon the way I see it


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Kostas G said:


> i wouldn't like adding fish from other continents in this tank.


Well you already have a mix of fish from different continents. Your catfish are from South America. If your going to consider salvini as coming from any continent, it comes from North America , NOT South America. Central America is part of North America, not at all part of South America.


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## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

I prefer to call it "The Americas", as the flora and fauna is not really separated, there isn't much of a barrier


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Kostas G said:


> I prefer to call it "The Americas", as the flora and fauna is not really separated, there isn't much of a barrier


Just like Africa with Europe and Asia, there "flora and fauna is not really separated". They are all connected by land. Some people even refer to Europe and Asia as Eurasia. More land connecting Africa with Eurasia then there is land connecting South America with North America. 
Different ways at looking at land masses, especially continents. But anyway you want to slice it, you already have a mix of fish that comes from different waters and envirements that are many thousands of kilometers away from each other.


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## Kostas G (Oct 5, 2015)

I agree on that, the catfish wouldn't see this cichlid species in their habitat. Still the looks and anatomy is very similar to South American cichlids like the Aequidens genus. African cichlids are quite different from that and the Asian cyprinids and Gourami don't have similar things in South or Central America. There characins predominate.


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