# Listless Linni



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

I have had a juvenile Linni for about 2 months. Not sure yet if it is male or female. It is in a 125 gallon with 11 other assorted haps, peacocks and mbuna. They all get along great. I provide plenty of rock for them to explore and or hide. My Linni started acting differently yesterday. It does not swim around much. Shows limited interest in food. If it does pick up a pellet that has made it to the bottom, it sometimes spits it out. There are no visible signs of anything, i.e. ich, fin rot etc. It almost seems to be acting like a holding female, but like I said, it will pick up a pellet now and then. I don't think it is possible that it is holding since I have never witnessed any breeding behavior andI only have one Linni. I suppose anything is possible when it comes to cross breeding, just not sure with a Linni. I have the following livestock. Linni, OB Peacock, VC 10, Venustus male, Red Fin Borleyi male, Yello Lab, Red Zebra, Yello Tail Acei, Demasoni, Williamsi Blue Lips, Red Top Trewavase, and a common Jewel. I know, the Jewel is an odd fish for this tank, but I have one and it is pretty cool. I stay on top of my tank, weekly water changes, frequent testing etc. Ammonia at 0, Nitrites at 0, and I don't let Nitrates go above 40. Any ideas on what might be going on with my Linni? It would be very hard to catch him and isolate him without tearing down all my rocks, plus like I said, it is a 125. Lots of room for it to escape my net. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It may feel intimidated by the other fish in the tank...even though maybe it should not. Where does it hang out in the tank? Any lurking under the surface or near/behind filter intakes or heaters?


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

He just hangs out near the bottom, right near the front glass in the middle of the tank in plain sight. He has been part of the gang up until yesterday. It has always been a passive fish, showing no aggression at all, but this is certainly different behavior for him.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think they are wearing him down.

The harassed fish don't hide...they give up thus being in plain sight. Usually they are nearer the top though.


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

I have seen no signs of aggression in the tank, unless stuff happens at night that I am not aware of.


----------



## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Getting listless and loosing interest in food/ spitting out food are warning signs of "bloat" disease. So check for symptoms of "bloat" disease. The bloating isn't until the fish is very ill, so you need to treat quickly before that.

Linni are pretty weird, they hang around motionless looking for fry to swim out from the rocks. I've seen one that would stay head pointed down/tail vertical hunting minutes at a time.They are very cool, but do seem to have a reputation for being more prone to bloat than Livingstoni/ Polystigma.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The tell-tale symptom of "bloat" is thready, white or clear feces (as opposed to thick and food-colored).


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

I have not seen any of his poop for a few days, but he sure displays other symptoms. Not sure if I can catch and separate him without tearing my 125 gallon display tank apart. Do they ever recover from bloat on their own?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No...but until you see the feces it can be something else. IME bloated fish hang around near the top or behind equipment.

In the course of your fishkeeping experience, you are likely to need to tear down your tank fairly often...maybe a good time to arrange things so that is practical?


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

Well, I decided to tear down my 125 so I could catch my Linni. It was probably time to re-rockscape anyway. It gave me an opportunity to do a good vacuuming. I placed him in my 10 gallon quarantine/ hospital tank that I keep up and running for such occasions. I added a packet of API General Cure. I have heard some pretty positive reviews of the product. KG Tropicals used it, so I figured I would give it a try. Hopefully I intervened in time to save this quirky little guy.


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

Update on my Linni. I have had him in a hospital tank for about 5 days now. I used 2 doses of API General Cure. I did a water change today and placed carbon in the filter to remove any residual medication. I also placed him in a epsom salt bath today for about 20 minutes. He has certainly displayed an increased level of activity. I introduced a little food beginning yesterday. He shows interest in the food and takes it in, but shortly after, spits it out. I tried a small piece of pea this evening. He attacked it, but eventually spit it out as well. I did notice a very thin threadlike poop coming out this evening. It almost looked like a fine piece of hair. I thought that was kind of strange. Hopefully he starts eating soon.


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

I recently treated my Linni for possible bloat. He was listless, did not show interest in food and hung out at the bottom of the tank. I never noticed white stringy poop. I placed him in a hospital tank and treated with API General Cure. After 5 days of treatment, he was swimming around, coming to the glass looking for food etc. I gave him a epsom salt bath to try to get him to expel any possible dead parasites that might be present. I did notice a very thin hair like clear poop. It was hardly visible since it was so thin. I placed carbon in my filter to remove residual medication. Once I placed him back in the hospital tank, I began offering pellets. He went after them aggressively. He would chew on one for a bit then spit it out. He did this numerous times. He did the same with every type of food that I offered him. Not sure if I need to treat him again with API General Cure, some other treatment, or just wait it out to see if he stops spitting his food. Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I merged your 2 topics since they are about the same fish and issue.

It can take the fish a few more days before he starts to eat again so just keep trying. Did you notice what color the feces were?


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

It didn't appear to have much color. It almost appeared to be clear.


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I would just continue with the Epsom salt treatment in the hospital tank from the Library article. Ideally you want the fish to ingest the solution orally so you can try soaking a couple pellets in the solution until they are soft and see if he will eat them.


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

I have made medicated food, but he fails to swallow it. I may dose him again with General Cure as well as another epsom salt bath.


----------



## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

This sounds normal for "bloat" type disease. Their stomachs fill up with fluid and they can't eat. Any poop is just very light and stringy. At least he may still be trying to eat, as they get worse they give up trying to eat and just seem very fatigued and just hang out near the bottom.

Metronidazole added to water has worked. Clout is used by some. Unfortunately the retail situation sucks nowadays, with so many pet stores disappearing, and may be hard to find.


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

I dosed with General Cure again tonight. I will place him in a epsom salt bath again tomorrow. Hopefully he comes around. I will keep up the fight. Thanks.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I use straight Metronidazole. Why mix with other meds that don't help as in General Cure?


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

I guess since I was not sure what was wrong with him initially, I figured I would use General Cure. Still not 100% sure, but all symptoms point to bloat except for actual bloating. Hopefully things turn around today and he eats something.


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Forkman, the bloat article recommends adding Epsom Salt to the aquarium so I don't think the bath is doing much at all.


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

I will give it a try. What is a safe amount to add to a 10 gallon aquarium?


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

I found the dosage in the article. It stated to use 2 tablespoons for 10 gallons. I will give it a try along with medication.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Test your pH and GH as Epsom salt raises it. When you add Epsom salt, raise it slowly...not all at once. Deeda is right, it is recommended for people who need to raise pH and GH as an additive to keep in your Malawi tank all the time (unless your GH is already high).


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

Thanks for all the input. I check PH frequently and it is a steady 8.0. I have not tested for GH. I will pick up a test kit for that.


----------



## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Epsom Salt may act like a laxative, which maybe helps clear a digestive blockage? Don't go crazy adding stuff, changing the water chemistry drastically or adding mixed medicines may be detrimental.


----------



## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

If the fish is large enough I would probably try force feeding the meds with an eye dropper. 



I have much less experience than the other posters here, so please keep that in mind.


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

That thought crossed my mind, but he is still fairly small. He is showing interest in food, but still tends to spit it out. I bought some flakes which he went after aggressively, but ultimately spit them out also. I am hoping he gets some nutrition from the flakes by chewing on it for awhile even though he spits it out eventually. He has not eaten for 2 weeks now as far as I can tell but he does not have a sunken belly, nor is he bloated. He is testing my patience.


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

Well, I think my Linni ate a few pellets this morning without spitting them out. We may be making progress. Unfortunately, I leave for a week vacation tomorrow and won't be able to closely monitor him. I will have to instruct my daughter to keep an eye on him and not to feed more than a few pellets at a time to see if he eats them or not. This will be a big accomplishment if I end up saving this weird little guy.


----------



## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

I would soak the pellets with the general cure and let the pellets dry a little then feed it to the linni.


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

Tried that method. I also mixed in some medicated pellets with some Repashy Soilent Green. He shows moderate interest, but certainly not like he used to be. I also picked up some frozen brine shrimp to try. He seems to aggressively go after it at first, but ultimately spits most of it out. He must be getting some nutrition, he is still alive after 3 weeks of this nonsense.


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

Well, I may have saved my Linni. He is now eating again and seems very active. I started feeding him some frozen brine shrimp which seemed to get him eating again. He is also picking pellets up off of the substrate. I will leave him in the hospital tank for another week before placing him back in the display tank. Fingers crossed that he continues to improve.


----------



## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

What treatment did you end up with in the end?

Haplochromines are pretty simple for the most part. Eat vigorously if well, no appetite if unwell.


----------



## forkman (May 29, 2018)

I placed him in a 10 gallon hospital tank. I began his treatment with API General Cure and followed the directions on the box. I also added 2 tablespoons of epsom salt to the water to act as a laxative to move any dead parasites out. I did a water change at the end of day 6 and placed carbon in the filter to remove any medication. I saw very little change in his condition. I repeated the treatment for a second time, still very little change, he would spit out any food he would take in. I treated for a third round and eventually he would eat without spitting out his food. There is no leftover food in his tank from day to day like there was before. I guess the third time was the charm.


----------

