# New 90gal CA tank, I have questions!!!



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Hi everyone-

I already have a topic in the SA forums asking for help with livestock for my new 90 gallon tank, and they helped me a ton. I think I have decided to go with a CA tank, so I wanted to start a topic over here, and have some questions for you guys because IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m pretty new to Cichlid keeping.

Details: 90 gallon regular. Running a Fluval 404, and a Biowheel 200 (this was established from my 55g, so I deiced to run it to help with cycle, and I may just keep it on this new 90 since it seems to give great oxygen exchange with the 2 inch water fall) Running UGF with (2) 802 power heads, 250 watt heater. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m lost with the lighting, and since this tank has a T12 fixture IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m running some Phillips daylight deluxe bulbs, they are 40watt, 6500K.

So here are a few questions, and I appreciate everyoneÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s help in advance.

1.	I already have 12 tiger barbs in the tank, and I want to keep them as dither fish. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m thinking eventually 1 EBJD, 1 CON, and 1 FIREMOUTH. Any other nice fish that would work with the above combo that donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t get too big? 
2.	What should I do as far as a bottom feeders for this tank? IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m very lost here, donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t want anything too big, would rather do smaller multiple fish.
3.	Big Question Here: PH is at 7.4 (tap) and IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m keeping the tank at 79-80 degrees, does this sound OK for a CA tank, or should I make some changes? 
4.	Currently I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have an air stone in this tank, do I need one with the above set up?

Thanks again for everyoneÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s help!!!

Eric


----------



## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi *Thewood45*,

Sounds like you have a great set up in the works.

I am not sure if I can help with question number 1.

Question 2: I am not sure if I should suggest this, but my EBJD and other CA/SA cichlids live with 8 Cory catfish (specifically Juli corries). I am not sure if this mix normally works, they have a lot of decorations and fake plants to hide under. I would also consider getting a trio of pictus cats. The problem with non-armored plated catfish, such as pictus and corries, is that they have spikes/hooks on their fins for defense. Therefore, if a cichlid does happen to get one inside its mouth the catfish can lodge itself in its mouth preventing getting swallowed. This could be detrimental to both fish for obvious reasons. I believe many cichlid keepers choose armor plated catfish based on this reason. Bushy nose catfish are a popular choice as they do not grow as large as most plecostomuses, typically only reaching 6 inches.

Question 3: Your PH and temperature are great. I would not recommend any changes. In my opinion it is better to not mess with water chemistry (PH, KH, etc.) unless necessary due to extremes.

Question 4: In my opinion you do not need an air pump, but they are helpful for water oxygenation. A good way to check that you have enough oxygen exchange with the surface of the water is to look up at the water surface from below the tank. The more agitated (movement) there is on the water surface the better the oxygen exchange. Then just watch your fish, if fish seem to be going to the top of the tank for air you will need to change something to add more water movement. It could be as simple as positioning the outflow from your canister to shoot at the water surface creating agitation.

I am sure others will be able to help you with you stocking and agree, elaborate, or disagree with my other ideas; as they are just my opinion based on reading and experience.

Thanks,
Matt


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Matt-

Thank you for all the info. I would love to be able to put Corries in my tank, anyone else have any thoughts?

thanks,

Eric


----------



## Valous (Jan 30, 2011)

it might work with corries, but that might depend on the bigger fish. As far a pictus if you really want to see them swim dont put them in warmer water or with bigger fish. Mine were all about the tank on water changes with cooler water. as the water warmed up and reached higher 70's they were not about as much.


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

I think I'm eventually going to do the following for this 90 gallon....

12 tiger barbs, already in the tank right now.

1 Convict, possibly pink

1 Firemouth

1 Rainbow shark

and here is the question of the day....What should my show fish be

*JACK DEMPSEY OR GREEN TERROR*? Or something else if you guys think something would be better.

thanks in advance for everyones help with helping me stock this tank


----------



## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

Cichlid stock sounds good.

JD (GT get pretty big)
FM
Con

I would add a Nicaraguensis

Barbs are OK.

I dont know anything about the shark

I have Cories in all my tanks and they do fine. 6 or so

PH is good. Keep temp at 76-78*

I dont use bubblers.

GL....Bill


----------



## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

I think *MonteSS*'s suggestion of a Nic is a good idea. However, I would go with a male Nic over the JD. With that set up (con, FM, Nic) I would think you have your best chance for going with a large school of cories, and the tiger barbs should be able to survive.

To keep my tiger barbs alive I put large leafed silk plants at the top of the tank attached to filter (also beneficial as it blocks the filter intake). This provides cover for them to retreat to, otherwise I find they run into the corners of the tank and get eaten or find a way to jump out.

Thanks,
Matt


----------



## justin3p0 (Apr 5, 2010)

watch the EBJD with that firemouth.... they love to bully


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Yeah I think I'll do a regular JD and not the EBJD. I'm still thinking about this. Good news is I'm in no rush of course. I'm going to add a Convict next week since the tank will be cycled and go from there I think. Thanks everyone for your help


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

k, tank is cycled so I think this weekend I'll start to stock. This is what I'm thinking and if anyone has any better ideas please let me know as I don't have my heart set on the stock....

Have

12 tiger barbs

Plan to stock slowly in order:

5 cories
1 firemouth
1 convict
1 JD, possibly a pair down the road if I can do that
Something small, but I have no idea


----------



## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

First off I'd drop the cories, the JD will eat the cories more than likely. Maybe a raphael cat or something armored would be a better idea.

I would put the JD (not a pair) in before the con and the firemouth... IMO JDs are less aggressive than cons, and firemouths are usually either psycho, or they're puppy dogs. Make sure if you do decide to put the con and FM in first that you choose females, because the male of either of those species has the potential to take over pretty quick IMO...

BTW - My firemouth in my 90 took over and killed/picked VICIOUS fights with any new cichlids I tried to introduce, and my con in my 55 was attempting to kill anything it saw (including gold danios, a raphael catfish, and a pleco).

I would do... (in this order)

12 tiger barbs
1 JD (male or female)
1 FM (female)
1 Con (female - more colorful anyways)

But that's just my two cents :lol:


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Chubbs, thanks so much for all this useful information. Now I'm thinking about changing my entire stock list from above. This is very fun but also frustrating trying to figure out what I want to do with this tank.


----------



## spxsk (Mar 29, 2006)

I would suggest introducing all the cichlids at the same time, or over a few days, not longer. The reason being that they are going to establish territories with lots of space to work with, and this is a source of much aggression. I just went through this with a larger tank, larger specimens. It is amazing to me how peaceful my tank has become using the too many targets to pick a fight model.

What are you thinking to change to now?


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm really not sure what to do with this tank. I want something that is an awesome combination, but I would also like to feed live once in a while. Any thoughts from anyone I would greatly appreciate it.


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Can I do a pair of JD's in this tank along with 1 con, and 1 firemouth, 12 tiger barbs? Sorry but I'm still lost here.


----------



## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

I persoally think you can, but no guarantees.

....Bill


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Will I be OK in regards to Bio-Load?

thanks,

Eric


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm so pumped. After weeks of research I bought the following today, and everything is in the tank as of now. I know people are going to rip me, but I'm hoping for the best...

1 3" Tiger Oscar
1 2" Green Terror
1 2" Firemouth
and
12 1/2" Tiger Barbs

So could this possibly work?


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Here are my new babies....Everyone seems to be doing great so far on day 1. Everyone is out and eating already and chasing around each other. The Tiger Oscar is about 3 inches I'm guessing, he is already eating like an Oscar...The Green Terror is almost 2 inches, and FM is inch and a half if I had to guess....Can anyone sex any of these guys yet? I'm most curious about the GT as I know the FM and Oscar are very hard to sex...


----------



## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi *Thewood45*,

I can not help with sexing them, it is very difficult when that yound. But i did want to commend you on some great shots. Thank you for sharing.

Thanks,
Matt


----------



## vodoochild (Feb 26, 2011)

i keep 4 coryadoras rabauti in my 75 with jd, fm, salvini and texas. i started with 6 a year ago. the 2 died from, im thinkin lack of food. since then *** been feeding sinking wafers and all is well except a few nipped fins once in a while.


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words with the pictures, I'm trying to learn this picture taking thing, its very tough with fish


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Anyone have a suggestion on what to replace the Tiger Barbs with? Oscar has been in there for just a little over a day and has took out 9 of the 12 Tiger Barbs. I would like something very nice looking and small, but not small enough for the 3 inch Mr. Oscar.

thanks in advance for your ideas....

Eric


----------



## belxavier420 (Aug 19, 2010)

I hate to be a downer but I dont think you should add and small fish unless you don't mind them getting eaten. Honestly I see bad things happening to the gt and the fm also. Oscars grow really quickly however gt and fm are pretty slow growers. I dont see those two little guys lasting more then a few months until the oscar grows enough to eat them also.


----------



## vodoochild (Feb 26, 2011)

when i had my oscar, about 5 years ago, i tried everything possible as dithers. all ended up as oscar food. only thing that worked was silver dollars. and they only work for a couple months until the oscar decided to kill them all one day at a time.


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

belxavier420 said:


> I hate to be a downer but I dont think you should add and small fish unless you don't mind them getting eaten. Honestly I see bad things happening to the gt and the fm also. Oscars grow really quickly however gt and fm are pretty slow growers. I dont see those two little guys lasting more then a few months until the oscar grows enough to eat them also.


This would not be good if this happens, I'm not looking for an Oscar only tank!!! Maybe I should re-home the oscar while he is still small and before I get attached to him, and maybe try to get a pair of GT, a FM and a Con as dithers.


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Took back mr. Oscar to lfs ..... Came home and GT Jumped out of the tank, so it looks like I'm starting all over


----------



## belxavier420 (Aug 19, 2010)

Ahh man, sorry to hear that, he was a good looking little guy too.


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

So....I have 1 male JD about 3 inches, 1 Blue Acara, and 1 firemouth so far in this tank and Its a very boring tank so far and I'm not liking it. The JD hides all the time. Any idea on how to change things up to make this tank interesting? This is my largest tank and my most boring tank and it seems it should be the opposite. Help please on a bomb 90 gallon stock list.

thanks in advance

Eric


----------



## Valous (Jan 30, 2011)

you could try adding some ditcher fish. Giant danios or tiger barbs might be a good start. As far as boring do you mean you want alot of aggressive activity? If so you, you prob should have looked into african cichlids or just overload the tank with CA cichlids. But your fish are still young and hard to say how the will act once they put a little more size on.


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

I have 5 Tiger Barbs in this tank....I already have a 55 gallon Mawali tank. Not that I need aggression but I don't like fish that "hide" when I come up to the tank....I'm thinking about adding an Oscar or Green Terror to this set up, or a pair of Cons


----------



## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

Before I push my opinion.... Question form seems better.

What do you think looks best?

#1









#2









#3









*Disclaimer* These Photos are not mine and are strictly intended for Observation Only.


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Foxfish-

Cool pics....#1 is firemouth of course as I have 1 already. #2 looks awesome also. Many fish look awesome, but I also want a personable tank. Right now it just feels very "bland" even though the firemouth and Blue Acara has great personality. I would love to hear your thoughts...


----------



## Valous (Jan 30, 2011)

a pair of cons might destroy the rest of the fish, but depends on how the tank is laid out and a place for the other fish to hide. The green terror might be ok with the others but you will have to get him close to the same size. Maybe a severum? they dont get as big as oscars but have the personality of one.

dfishfox, I like them all. Hope to one day get the last 2 as I have a firemouth and he bullies my oscar away from his tree trunk/ side of tank


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

yeah I don't have an Oscar in this tank, but its a thought to bring some personality. I really don't know...what If I add a pictus catfish and 1 more med. cichlid....


----------



## Valous (Jan 30, 2011)

pictus cats like to be in groups, and you run a possiblity of the cichlids eating it. I have had success but i had them before my Oscar who is only 4" or so.


----------



## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

They are all in the Thorichthys Genus. Slight differences in them..

Just giving ideas to your choices rather than the same ol same ol.. Cause with what I'm suggesting its not real NEW territory for you as a fish keeper but will add Color, Variety and Individuality since there doesn't appear to be many keeping the non-cliche types. Might even be fun for you, recognizing the minor differences in behavior..

Like instead of a Convict... Try Honduran Red Points; IMO look way better and are said to have a softer attitude, mine acts nicer than my previous cons stay tuned on him.

You want action that doubles as dithers? Get a HUGE school (20) of Columbian Tetras [they non-stop play tag in mine] They get a decent non-getting-eaten-size, school, and are good color.

Plus some sword tails.. The Koi Swords I just got myself give a real nice contrast to color and behavior. I recomm: 2 males to 7 females in your tank

Oh and 1 of each cichlid I've mentioned


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

So besides the dithers your recommending adding a HRP? This is an option as many things are open to suggestions right now, but I have never seen one at a LFS


----------



## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm suggesting, keep the firemouth and add a few Thorichthys Pasionis, 1 Thorichthys Aureum, 1 HRP & Dithers

I was reading more on T. Pasionis earlier (while at work, just got home) and the article was talking about how T. Pasionis rarely strays far from the spawning site when caring for their fry.. So if you wanted to have a Breeding cichlid among others this is the one I'd gamble on.

Or you could try a Pair of HRP's.. They are also said to not be as aggressive as cons during spawning. I just took my parents on a trip to a place called the "Daytona Aquarium" traded in all of their africans to give them an American start. Among the choices were two HRPs that I personally hand selected and netted (since I'm a regular there, they hand me a net and bucket to get what I want. LOL). Female barely under 2" and male 3". No Bs, with-in 2 weeks there are free swimmers being guarded in a cave at one end of their 55gal long. I have yet to go an watch them for at least an hour but they are not killing others. My mom says they won't let others near the cave but aren't chasing relentlessly.


----------



## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi *Thewood45*,

If you donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t want fish that hide, I would go for a Red Devil/Midas; not only will they not hide they will try with all their might to keep you out of their territory, which to them typically extends past the confines of their tank.

The problem is you could only do one RD/Midas in your 90g. Which means you would be re-stocking your entire tank.

Realistically, if you condition your current fish to associate you with food then they will always come out to "greet you" (i.e. beg for food). With time and training all my fish from mbuna to CA to SA have eventually associated me with food and now always come to see me. Even my shyest and grumpiest fish, a Geo, creeps out to see if I will feed him (as long as he is hungry, otherwise he gives me the same grumpy stare). Some lightly splash the water to signify feeding time; I personally shake the bag of food in front of the tank. My CA go nuts when I shake the bag, latterly driving at the glass trying to get to the food they are so excited.

Thanks,
Matt


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Matt, yeah my africans go nuts when I feed, they jump in and out of the water. Maybe I'll just keep my current stock and add something to spice up the tank. I do know I don't want a devil/midas as it will be the only fish in the tank and I'm not looking for a 1 fish tank


----------



## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

Severum or Chocolate.

...Bill


----------



## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

How big is your Acara?

I thought the focus was on central americans... ??


----------



## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

I second the HRP mention, as well as add the possibility of a pair of Cutteri or Sajica as other options.

My fish all come to greet me too when I come near the tanks... My carpintis leads the charge followed by my tiger barbs in the 55, and the HRP swims back and forth up the length of the 20 long. It's truly comical :lol:


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Fishfox my acara is 2 inches.... The jd in the tank is almost 3 inches and the Firemouth 2 inches...


----------



## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

Thewood45 said:


> Fishfox my acara is 2 inches.... The jd in the tank is almost 3 inches and the Firemouth 2 inches...


Sounds like decent sizes as long as you can buy others at about the same.. or to compensate for smaller additions you'll need more .. caution to an addition that can fit in JD's mouth


----------



## woaisqt (Oct 8, 2011)

Unless necessary, do not make the best chemistry


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

I was not happy with this tank, so I just did a re-stock today, and I really think I'll enjoy this tank. Please let me know your thoughts, and I have an algae problem, so with the stock below can I add a brusle nose pelco?

-4 firemouth's - 2 of them are 2 inches, the other 2 of them are 3 inches. I"m hoping from the 4 I'll get a pair down the road.
-2 Blue Acaras, 3 inches I love these guys and they have been in the tank since day 1.
- 1 Green Terror, hoping to be the main fish, but he is a little guy only 2 inches right now.
- 1 female convict, 3 inches...she is beautiful, just picked her up today from the LFS
-1 pictus catfish, 4 inches long
-5 tiny tiger barbs

thanks for everyones thoughts in advance.

Eric


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I didn't read through this entire thread so sorry if I am missing something... This is a 90gal correct?

I think your stocking is pretty good minus the Green Terror. Personally, I don't think mixing Blue Acaras and GT's is a very good idea as they look very similar. This will most likely cause aggression issues down the road, and possibly even the chance of the GT pairing up with one of them. Also, are you planning on getting rid of the 2 extra Firemouths once you get a pair? (I would recommend it)

Keep in mind, although it is a 90gal, you have the footprint of a 75 which is what really matters. I think this final stocking would work well...

2x Blue Acaras (pair)
2x Firemouths (pair)
1x Convict
5x Tiger Barbs (maybe get a couple more)
1x Pictus Catfish (I'd get 2 more)
1x Bristle Nose Pleco


----------



## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

In a 90 gallon tank you could have more fish than this. It's only if you're adding pairs do you have to restrict the amount of fish. But since you're getting 1 of these you could probably throw in some more.


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

I would like the firemouth to eventually pair, but besides that I'm not looking for all kids of pairs. I love Blue Acara's and even thought I have 2 of them who knows if they are male or female, so I don't expect them to pair. Thanks for everyones kind thoughts, and it looks like all the fish made it through the first night with this restock....


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

Some of my friends from this tank would like to say hi to all.....


----------



## Thewood45 (Jul 19, 2011)

One more of the dominate fish in the tank ATM


----------

