# Remove females to reduce problems?



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

I have a Borleyi-esqu hybrid in my 75g mixed malawi tank that pretty much takes over 1/2 the tank when he's looking to breed. Problem is, his breeding attempts are becoming more and more frequent. There are a few females in the tank, and while they don't get picked on (there is one female in particular who mates the most with him, she's one of the bigger fish in the tank and she can handle herself), and then it's mostly males (peacocks, for the most part). I'm wondering if i re-home the females if that will help the male chill out. I've always thought about going to an all male tank in the display tank, anyway.

So, what are your guys' experiences with all male tanks? Is this something that could reasonably be expected to mellow things out?


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

I have an all male Hap/Peacock tank. I know that I started out with a bunch of juvenile fish about a year ago and have added several more fish since then. Some of the fish ended up being female and when they all started reaching breeding size, I noticed a lot more aggression in my tank. I went through and removed all the known females and the aggression is now almost non-existent. Most of my fish are in the 4-6" range, but some are smaller. Also, I did notice that some of the male colors also become less vivid. They still look nice and colored up, but not super bright. So for me, yes, removing the females brought down the aggression, but also reduced the colors of the males a little bit. I still like it better without the females. The aggression made me a nervous wreck all the time. Now it is just a little chasing every now and then, but nothing too bad.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

I recently removed a few young females from my "all male" tank (bought the fish unsexed and wasn't able to determine sex of everyone until recently). Just before I removed them I had a lot more aggression including 2 fish with some seriously beat up tails. Since the females were rehomed, things have calmed down quite a bit.

Removing the females from the tank should help, though to what extent is hard to predict. I'd try it though.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you already have 4 or more females for every male...the tank should be pretty calm. I find a mixed gender tank to be calmer than all-male. Maybe your hybrid is just overly aggressive? That's not unusual with hybrids.


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## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks guys! Sounds like this is something i should probably try.


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## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

And DJ, i don't have 4 females per male, the ratio I'd probably 1:1 at best, probably a couple more males. Part of my fear is that whole the females can hold their own now, that it might not last. A male tank it is, I'm fortunate to live in an area where I have a good selection of breeders and lfs to contact so i can make it happen soon


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If your ratio is 1:1 then removing females will definitely help.


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## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks DJ. Tomorrow i'm doing some major overhaul... I've got homes lined up for the females and some new males in mind.

I do have a couple other questions, however. First off, does anyone know a way to tell if a Deepwater Hap or a Blue Dolphin Moorii are male or female? They're both probably 5" or so, and i've heard the males will get a pointy dorsal fin? Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, can it be reliably counted on? I have a couple 1-offs in the tank, a Frontosa, and a Altolamprologus compressiceps "Yellow". (they seem to do a good job of getting along in the tank, i keep an eye on them and would remove them if they get to the point where they seemed stressed. Would females of these types make the rest of the males feisty (the majority of the tank are haps/peacocks)? They're a few of my favorite fish, but there is some mayhem in the tank right now, and i need to curb this quickly.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

mclaren880 said:


> First off, does anyone know a way to tell if a Deepwater Hap or a Blue Dolphin Moorii are male or female? They're both probably 5" or so,


Vent them.



mclaren880 said:


> I have a couple 1-offs in the tank, a Frontosa, and a Altolamprologus compressiceps "Yellow". (they seem to do a good job of getting along in the tank, i keep an eye on them and would remove them if they get to the point where they seemed stressed. Would females of these types make the rest of the males feisty (the majority of the tank are haps/peacocks)?


I'd remove them. Frontosa is going to get too big and the other fish will likely nip their fins. IME alto's can survive but maybe not thrive in a peacock/hap tank.


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## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks DJ. I'll keep an eye on them and consider that in the future. I just removed all hap/peacock females and replaced then with males. I put the main aggressor in a breeder net and i'm going to leave him in there over night. A couple of the other males are still sparring a little. Does it take a little while for them to realize there are no females there? Would a water change to remove hormones help? One of the females turned out to be ready to mate (i vented her) and the guy at the fish store thought she could have been causing everyone to freak, so i'm wonder if her hormones are still in the water?


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

mclaren880 said:


> Thanks DJ. I'll keep an eye on them and consider that in the future. I just removed all hap/peacock females and replaced then with males. I put the main aggressor in a breeder net and i'm going to leave him in there over night. A couple of the other males are still sparring a little. Does it take a little while for them to realize there are no females there? Would a water change to remove hormones help? One of the females turned out to be ready to mate (i vented her) and the guy at the fish store thought she could have been causing everyone to freak, so i'm wonder if her hormones are still in the water?


I can't really find any data about how long fish pheromones stay in the water and honestly don't have a good guess. I'd do a water change - an extra water change is never a bad thing.


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## amcvettec (May 11, 2012)

They might be reestablishing a pecking order. You said you added more males?


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## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks, I'll do a water change this evnening, and it seems to be mellowing out a little bit. I didn't put the big male back into the tank yet, he was going pretty nuts to i wanted to be sure he's chilled out before i put him back. I suppose his absence may be causing it too, as other males may be seeking to be the alpha without him there. I'll see what happens when i add him back. Thanks a lot everyone!


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

amcvettec said:


> They might be reestablishing a pecking order. You said you added more males?


I agree with this statement. Also, All Male tanks are not without some skirmishes. There will always be some chasing around and even some minor battles. As long as no one is getting harrased too much and hiding up in a corner behind your filter intake.

Also, I am not sure if we got your entire stock list, but if you have any look alikes or multiples of the same species, you may still have some problems. In an all male tank, it is best to keep fish that do not have similar coloring patterns.


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

I have a 220G all male hap/peacock setup. I recently added 5 fish 3 weeks ago that were growing out. 2 of them were 6" Bucco rhoadesii. One of them is definitely a female and the other one I can't tell possibly a male. I wanted to add the female because I have a large 10+" male rhoadesii that I hope that would eventually breed with her. So far there has been no aggression and the 5 new fish including the lone female bucco seem as happy as could be. All in all there are around 30 fish from 4"-14".


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## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Sooo big daddy is back at it. I held him out of the general population for about 48 hours (took the females out at about the halfway mark) just to be sure he mellowed out. I put him back in last night, and while he was chill at first (he wasn't really eating, although, which is strange for him), he's back to claiming his half the tank. It almost seems like he's trying to breed with my new Blue Dolphin Hap, which i'm almost certain is a male (has the hump forming and all). I don't know if this has anything to do with it or not, but my old Blue Dolphin Hap (the one i swapped out for a male on sunday was most likely the female that was causing all the problems. Her vent looked like it was going to drop eggs any day). Is he confused or something? lol.

All the male peacock/haps should be out. I have a few 1-off mbuna in there that i have not sexed yet, and there is likely at least 1 female in the bunch. Would this affect him?

Thanks again everyone, i appreciate all the help!


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## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

In the above post, it should say all the FEMALE haps/peacocks are out


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

mclaren880 said:


> It almost seems like he's trying to breed with my new Blue Dolphin Hap, which i'm almost certain is a male (has the hump forming and all).


I believe the females get humps as well. Moorii are monomorphic. Are the fins longer and pointed or rounded off? Males should have pointed dorsal and anal fins. To be 100% sure it is best to vent this species.

The female Mbuna could be an issue, not really sure, someone else can probably comment on that one.

There is still the possibility that this fish is just overly aggressive? All fish are different and have different personalities.

I used to have a Freyeri that was extremely aggressive with everyone in the tank. After I removed all the females, it took a few days, and he finally calmed down and now he is actually pretty peaceful.


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## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Alrighty, i'll give it a little longer. I took a pic of the blue dolphin's vent just now. Looks male to me, but would you guys tell me what you think? Here is a link to the pic on my google drive:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0By7HhzQ ... sp=sharing


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