# Tangs hate large water changes?



## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

I've heard it over and over that Tangs don't respond well to big water changes. Here's a pic of my 20 gallon brichardi tank w/ 4 spawns and 3 adults in it about half an hour ago. Another 1 1/2 inches probably came out before I started filling it back up.










Normally I do weekly 50% changes, but to be totally honest sometimes for some reason or another a week gets skipped. When that happens I do 85% changes to catch up a little. They sure don't seem to mind, I'm looking at the tank right now about 10 minutes after this large change and it's business as usual in there other than a little haze caused by microbubbles. The adults did give me a look about knocking one of their large sand piles over but it was obstructing my view from the couch and it had to go. hehehe

I have a pretty tried and tested method of adding my additives back in while I'm refilling so I really don't think there's much of a GH/KH/pH change at all. I dump them in pre-mixed w/ warm water while the tank refills.

I've also done ginormous changes with my multies, calvus and jules with no ill effects. I can't say 100% that all Tangs can take this kind of change but there is definitely proof that not all Tangs can't take it.

Thoughts?


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Hey Norm, _good on ya mate!_

I love it that you are challenging the conventional wisdom and what your doing is working. This is how we grow our hobby 

I have started using my 30 gallon tank again as a tempered, preconditioned water source for my water changes. Unfortuanetly, in my new house, I now have to buffer my pH. GH & KH are off the chart high but my new water supply has gone from 8.0 pH out of the tap to 7.4 pH. My calvus don't seem to mind a 50% water change. My E. kilesa seem more sensative to large water changes but my theory is that they do not tolerate very much of a pH drop. So, I try to get it right in the 30 gallon tank first.

Btw: I usually make sure my new water is at least 3 to 5 degrees colder than the main tank water. Kinda like a natural spring into the lake - they love it! The most I tried was 10 degrees and my calvus loved it. I'll probably stick to 5 degrees as my standard.

Keep pushing on!

Russ


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Btw: your heater may not like those ginormous changes - you might want to make sure you unplug it ten minutes before your change


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## TMB60 (Jan 6, 2011)

I have all the fish you mentioned (minus Brichardis) and do 50% water changes every week with never any ill affect. In fact the fish seem to love it. But I do match up the "new water" parameters closely with the old, so maybe that's why?


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## Cooder (Jul 19, 2011)

hmm ok. i reckon the larger the water change the more the difference will be in the water, so thats why they wouldnt like it, but if you can get it right and your fish love it, who can tell you to stop?

I like to do small water changes because i dont like lugging water around for hours and you dont use up as much buffer when you do.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Seems to all depend on your source water. To say that tangs don't like water changes is an over generalization. I haven't heard that idea spread much here at CF. I can do large changes straight from the tap on dozens of tang species without a problem. Others see stressed fish when trying the same. Each needs to test and go with what works for them because, again, not all source water is the same. And no, I don't believe it's necessarily the things we can measure like pH, GH, and KH that are the culprits when fish do get stressed. I don't bother with matching parameters on change water. Needless hassle IME.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My tangs are fine with large water changes except for cyp fry.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

DJRansome said:


> My tangs are fine with large water changes except for cyp fry.


Good point, fry can be a different issue. My cyathopharynx fry were delicate.


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

I thought it was an interesting discussion topic. Not that I've seen it a lot here, but in my reading on the subject of Tangs in general I have seen it over and over.

I always thought it was a bit of a Catch 22 in that Tangs require excellent water conditions, but yet don't take to large water changes very well. It never made sense to me as long as the water in the tank and the water from the tap weren't too far off and even if they were why would it be a huge deal to add the stuff that changes the tank water along with the new water.

Once the water level is sufficient while refilling I just turn my powerheads back on, start adding the pre-mixed chemicals and the powerhead and the inflow of water help mix it up pretty quickly.

I'm not saying it would work for everybody, but I don't see a downside if it works.


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

When my Calvus were young, they didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t react well to big water changes. It doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t seem to faze them at all now though. I do at least 50% a week on all of my tanks with no ill effects. I think DJ and prov have it right. The age of the fish and the quality of your source water play a big role in the outcome.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Tangs require excellent water conditions


I think that's been overblown a bit too. All fish benefit from good water conditions. IME the requirements for tangs don't exceed the requirements for others. They don't suffer if I miss a water change or two. At least mine don't. I'm not saying they can be neglected and do great, just that they don't seem more sensitive to water conditions than others.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Depends on the species, their age, and your water quality.....


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Large frequent water changes , using water without additives mean the parameters are more likely to stay consistent. If I had to doctor water to keep a certain fish, I would likely not keep it. With the Lake Ontario water coming from my tap at pH 7.4 to 7.6, I can keep pretty much any fish, without playing water chemist. My water is aged for 20' (the length of the hose), and I change from 50% to 80%, and have yet to have an issue, even when I kept tangs.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Cooder said:


> I like to do small water changes because i dont like lugging water around for hours and you dont use up as much buffer when you do.


Hey Cooder,

I us a 75-foot python, I fill the new water directly into the 30 gallon reservoir tank from my utility sink in the basement and condition the new water. I then hook a submersible pump onto the python and pump the new water over to the tanks(s) getting the water change. I eliminate the buckets (at least for the fill). The python kit also comes with a venturi valve that will allow you to pull water from the tanks too (I need to dig up that venturi valve 8) ). Of course, I could put the ump in the tank and pump the water out to the sink.

Russ


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

I think it's a bit of a question of common sense. In most habitats Lake Tanganyika offers stable water conditions pretty much year round. It should come as no surprise that fish coming from that type of background adapt less well to sudden changes in water conditions than fish that come from an environment that is dominated by alternating seasons of drought and flooding - such as a lot of New World cichlid habitats.

In my experience fish that might experience drought conditions in the wild will also be able to put up with low water quality in a tank - at least for a while. Cichlids from Lake Tanganyika might well perish if subjected to the same conditions. Large water changes are ok as long as water parameters are kept constant. Large water changes are definitely preferable to sub-optimal water quality.


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## Mr Mbuna (Nov 16, 2007)

I have had no problems with big water changes and I have WC fish, although I do match parameters (not by measuring, just by always making it up the same and feeling for the right temp.) I have found cyps to be the most sensitive. I washed out a filter sponge in one tank and there must have been a slight ammonia spike the next day as I lost a bunch of them - never had that happen with any other fish.
In transport from Africa/Germany or Holland they must have to tolerate bad water for almost 24 hrs and they they have the equivalent of a massive water change and they survive that.


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## londonloco (Mar 31, 2011)

I do 20% most weeks, but there are weeks I do 50% on some tanks. The only problem I have ever had with any fish was a Multi and Julie tank I had set up several years ago. I didn't pay attention to the temp of the water, and dumped in cold winter well water. They did not like that at all. I didn't notice any losses, but it was touch and go for a few hours. I now make sure the temp is somewhat correct, using my hand to judge.


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## Riverwater (Nov 3, 2010)

The conventional school of thought is that if the water parameters of the new water are the same or close to the old one in the tang tank, then it will be fine. My calvus and comps are crazy sensitive to water changes because my tap water is way different so I have been thinking about a way to age and treat the new water so I can do large water changes. Found a couple of cool DIY ideas on the net.


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

Riverwater said:


> My calvus and comps are crazy sensitive to water changes because my tap water is way different so I have been thinking about a way to age and treat the new water so I can do large water changes. Found a couple of cool DIY ideas on the net.


I have bad tap water too - very low kH (2 dKH) and itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s treated with chloramines. However, the pH is ok on its own (7.8).

I use a 30 gallon barrel with a heater and a submersible pump for the water changes. I fill the barrel, add baking soda, add some dechlor, and then let it sit for a while (1/2 hr to an hr) with the pump mixing it all. Then when IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m ready, I use the same pump to pump the water from the barrel to the tank. It isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t overly complicated and it works well for me.


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## phishNfilly (May 22, 2011)

I have a question to the above posts that say the fish act differently to large water changes. Exactly how do the fish act differently? Sorry if this seems like a silly question but I really would like to know just what are they doing? Julia :-?


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

In my case, it was obvious irritation from the incoming water. They would rub their gills (flashing) against the substrate and rocks, and they would dart around the tank in, what appeared to be, an attempt to get away from the irritating water.

When my Calvus were young is when I had the most trouble with this. TheyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re full size adults now and donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t seem bothered by large water changes anymore. I do have one Brevis, out of seven, that flashes during water changes Ã¢â‚¬â€œ but, I think heÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s just a complainer.


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## marklar (Oct 1, 2005)

I find that with water that has been pre-conditioned in water butts to match pH, KH, GH of the tanks all my Tanganyika cichlids seem to thrive on anything up to weekly 80% water changes. Nitrate levels are also pretty much matched as with these sort volume changes levels I can keep them below 5ppm.

Species include various Tropheus, Cyprichromis, Paracyprichroms, Altolamprologus, Opthalmotilapia, Enantiopus and others. The Cyprichromis and Paracyprichromis don't seem to cope well with temperature drops though so for those in particular I try to match temperature also.

I wouldn't dream of doing such large changes with water that was not matched for parameters beforehand though.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

I do 75% WCs on a tank with Trophs. I've never had a problem with them.


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