# my 9months red devils



## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

75 gallon aquarium









about 4 of the start to show some color

















i keeped only 30 fry









eating their favorite meal.frozen brime shrimp

i feed it to them almost everyday ?? is it too much? i aslo sometimes just feed them flakes.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

At 9 months ,they should be a good 8-10" I'd think. I fed mine several times a day for growth with high protien foods. Once he got to around 6" I slowed it down a bit but still fed twice a day with a one day fast every week. Seemed to do the trick with mine. I'd feed them more and do lots of water changes.


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

im not sure this is my first time rising any cichlids,i hardly have time to feed my fry three times per day. or do their water changes. i know i do it atleast 1 onces per month about 50percent water change.they have been a through a lot of stress with me.maybe that is why they are still very tiny.im doing my best to keep up with them.


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

First. Nice looking tank.

What are you going to do with all those fish. It's time to start getting rid of some.

Brine shrimp are not very nutricious. Feed them a good quality Cichlid pellet twice a day. (Hikari, Omega one, NLS, etc)

Make sure you do 33% water changes at least once a week.

...Bill


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## ryzilla (May 30, 2007)

once a month may or may not be enough depending on your bioload. Since you have so many fish in that tank that produce alot of waste then I would reccomend weekly water changes. Test your NO3 (nitrates) once a week. Once your nitrates are around 80ppm you should start to think about doing a waterchange.


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

bill im gonna wait unto they around 4 inches so they could have a chances at life. i will only keep only maybe 8 of them. the reason i feed my fry red devil frozen brime shrimp is cuz the lable say it will make them grow faster.? i have a total of 30 fry in the 75 gallon, the tank is an overflow, i have it connect with 2 rena canister xp3. i will add another xp2 later during winter since i dont plan on changing the water too much.gets to cold to do anything around here.


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## Lancerlot (Feb 22, 2006)

kingmidas said:


> bill im gonna wait unto they around 4 inches so they could have a chances at life. i will only keep only maybe 8 of them. the reason i feed my fry red devil frozen brime shrimp is cuz the lable say it will make them grow faster.? i have a total of 30 fry in the 75 gallon, the tank is an overflow, i have it connect with 2 rena canister xp3. i will add another xp2 later during winter since i dont plan on changing the water too much.gets to cold to do anything around here.


All these fish are stunted. Underfeed. you can tell by the face/body shapes.

lables are miss leading. What ever makes you buy a product, I find cichlid pellots work the best at 1"+. You want to keep 8? eh that's alot of red devils for 1 75g. They reach up to 12". 2 is overkill in a 75g I find. also 4" is huge for that many Red devils. They will start killing each other off at 3" if they haven't started already.

Also all these fish are stunted and unhealthy. I can tell by the Deformed faces/body shapes. Im not sure what other fish you keep. but I would just Euthenize the rest and keep the 2-5 best looking ones and grow them out till u get a pair and just end up with 2 Red devils in the end.

I got no idea how you ended up with them or w/e ECT. but they're stunted. Honestly with me it's Clove Oil or Feeder fish for all those.

Also why keep 8? they grow to 8"+ easy.


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

no i will not turn my baby fish into feeder fish.i have keeped them for 9months ! to do such a thing.once i c they are ready i will give them away to friends and family.


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## Lancerlot (Feb 22, 2006)

kingmidas said:


> no i will not turn my baby fish into feeder fish.i have keeped them for 9months ! to do such a thing.once i c they are ready i will give them away to friends and family.


\
There all stunted and deformed. Also these fish require Huge tanks. Not something many people will commit to. My pair was in a 125g and I still found that was small for a fish 12" and 11".

They arn't ready. They never will be, I know this is hard to hear or understand. I hate killing or getting rid of fish.

30red devils. 55gal min for 1. Thats over 1650gallons of water you will need For these fish to live happily and grow properly.. For a fish that grows 8-12". I honestly don't see how every fish will live, If your giving them away they will probly end up In "FISH BOWLS" and die with in hours.

What your doing is just no Fesible. the longer you wait to get rid of them the worse it will get. Unless you do water changes every half week and feed them 2-3 times a day. Cause at this rate they will not grow. 9months is way to long. a 1" red devil should be 6-9" in 9months.


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

i know the requirement for a fish. but not all of us have the MONEY and time as some people do.i now what im doing.sorry if you are not happy with it.and of course im not going to keep all 30 in the tank for the rest of their lifes. i know lots of good people who will give them a good home.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

What everyone is telling you is basicly correct, They're stunted and will never acheive the size of a well cared for RD. Waterchanges are incredibly importand to the overall health of your fish, no way around it. One or two of these might turn out fair but never what they should be as an example of their species. If you are having difficulty in maintaining your fish and tanks in a healthy manner, then maybe you should consider putting the hobby on hold untill you have more time for it. Not trying to be mean , just realistic. I've had to do it myself on occasion. Actually doing that right now as amatter of fact. I know you've tried your best with them , but they are in bad shape, and honestly should be put down. Doesn't mean you can't try again with this species (if you like them why not) , but they really need much better care than what these fish have had. I just rehomed mine and at around 5-6 months old he is just over six inches.

I'm sorry this is not what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth. I'd (if you insist on keeping any of this batch) keep the best of the group and put the rest down. The ones you keep are going to be small and runty and never live up to their potential, but they'll live the rest have no chance. For the ones you may keep , Lots of waterchanges to keep the water quality as high as possible that way when these die (and they will soone rather than later) you'll be in the routine of keeping a much healthier tank. And by the way, there is nothing wrong with culling . It keeps the line strong and the overall population from becoming weak.


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## zambian (Aug 20, 2007)

Excellent advice guys. I have a 55Gallon with two Jack Dempsies and I know I going to have to upgrade within the next 18months.


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

Joel thank you i will take your advice into Consideration


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## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

Knowing how to keep the fish doesn't mean anything if you cant do it. Having money is not the issue you have a tank and the fish money is out of the question and if you are so busy I can presume its from work so you must have money somewhere. You wouldn't treat a dog like this would you? Your fish will die one way or another so it can be quick and easy if you do it yourself or they can suffer a few months to a year. Its almost impossible to not be able to feed your fish crab the bag of food put your hand in it throw food in water, it takes less than 5 seconds when you wake up before you go to bed. As far as changing water there is no way its to cold to change water, you are inside your house. Unless you hibernate. Filters do not make up for changing water in any way its like a computer virus sure you can add more memory(filter) to your computer but you still have a virus(polluted water). on your day off drain some water out fill the tank up it takes 10 minutes. I can change water in 3 tanks in under 25.


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## zambian (Aug 20, 2007)

Come on guys, go easy on the guy. He just needs some time to get organised and understand the reality of keeping fish.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

zambian said:


> Come on guys, go easy on the guy. He just needs some time to get organised and understand the reality of keeping fish.


Good point :thumb: He's learning ,let's not beat him up too much .


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Wow water changes in 3 tanks in under 25 minutes. What am I doing wrong? It takes me 15 minutes to do one tank :lol: I usually spend half a day Saturday cleaning tank. I must be slow :roll: :lol:


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## ryzilla (May 30, 2007)

takes me 10 minutes in my 38g to do a water change. Porbably around 3 minutes in my 10g's.

Really though. Stunted fish should be exterminated. It is a sad sight. I know it is rough but those fish need to go. I am sure you can find someone in your area who needs decent sice feeders. Either that or get a glass and put it in the freezer. Wait until there is a ice layer on the top of the water that you can break with your fingure. Then drop your fish in it. They will die in 5 seconds. Sounds cruel but IMO the most humane way to kill them.


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## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

I have 2 homemade pythons I can do both takes at once pretty much and my betta tank just dump it out and refill it I do that while the other 2 are filling back up.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

well if your in san diego,ca let me know ill take some! :thumb: 
lol..

but thats true about there size mine are all 6-11 inches an eat 2-3 times an day both high protein an spirulina an flakes of various sorts. water changes every week or so. they are great fish but you can onlky have so many per a tank size not everyone follows those rules  
like me...lol
but its all based on your fish sometimes they can get along other time its a big no no!
as long as its good saize tank well fed an maintained etc...


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## LowCel (Apr 6, 2004)

lil mama said:


> Wow water changes in 3 tanks in under 25 minutes. What am I doing wrong? It takes me 15 minutes to do one tank :lol: I usually spend half a day Saturday cleaning tank. I must be slow :roll: :lol:


It takes me a little longer than 25 minutes to do water changes in my three tanks for some reason.


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

I always move all the decor and vacuum the whole tank and I change out 50% of the water. I'm still slow  but my tanks a crystal clear


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## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

Well it doesnt matter how long it takes as long as it gets done 

I just hook both of mine up to the sinks and vacuum one then refill it than while its refilling vacuum the other it works well just there is no time to dilly dally cause its easy to over fill >.<


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

I'm going to take a less harsh approach here.....If you like them as they are, and don't want them to grow to maximum size, once a day feedings are fine---but feed a bit more variety for long term health. Also, you should step up the water changes too.

That being said---the tank is terribly overcrowded. You really should pick a few of your favorite ones, then give the rest away.....but be sure that whoever you give them to knows their true age and that their growth is stunted.

Please research a fish species before you buy next time...so that you can prepare with appropriate tank size. Large cichlids like Red Devils usually need at least a 55g tank to themselves---and that is really pushing the tank limits. A 75g would be a much better fit.


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

i didnt intented to breed this fish and the first place, i got a pair in a 75 gallon, after a few weeks they spawn! lay about 1000 eggs. i try to get rid of the baby s by taking out the heater, which work, only 40 survive.anywho you are right, this week i start giving out the fish for free.only to those that have a little experience with C.A Cichlids. i will keep maybe 8 to get some pairs. i got laid off from my work so now i have lots of time to do water changes! aslo i clean my tank completely. i paint the background black it looks great! and the stand looks so much better than before.i will post pictures tomorrow! well maybe..


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

8 is still alot but believe me to them it will make a big difference to not

be sooo crowded colors sizes and attitudes will change no doubt :thumb: baby steps :dancing:


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## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

8 Is still way to much why not just do it right??


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

At this point the fish are badly stunted, so 8 dinky RDs isn't as bad as it sounds. The guy likes "his" fish so lets just roll with it here . He knows now that this is otherwise unacceptable, but under these circumstances it is do-able.

I do have to question the concept of trying to get pairs out of them though. *kingmidas* you had no way to get rid of them last time your fish spawned, what will you do next time it happens?


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

why would you want pairs from the same fry?

not a profeesional or anything..

im still new but isnt that still incest an a possibility of gen. deform. outcome? or is it different for fish?

just not too sure how it all works for cichlids?? :-?


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

It isn't as big a deal for fish in general. Their genetic structure is a little different from that of mammals and doesn't suffer nearly as badly or quickly from inbreeding. Inbreeding is an important tool in line breeding to fix traits.


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## heylady (Oct 14, 2004)

Never feel bad about culling. That's what all good breeders do. If you are breeding and you have too many fry or maybe some have deformed gill plates, you feed those fry to a larger fish. Think of it this way...it's all part of nature. Big fish eat little fish. If you wanted, you could probably feed the smaller of those red devils to the original parents. They will indeed eat them. (make sure they're bite size though)
I would offer my advice against trying to get a breeding pair. You already have one pair and have trouble in dealing with their offspring you certainly don't need to make it worse. Besides that, since the fish are stunted I would hesitate anyway because their offspring might be weaker...not something that needs to be added to the gene pool you know?

If you are going to keep the remaining RD's then I would certainly suggest you do 50% water changes at least once a week. Yes feed a better diet too and you should start to see a change in their color and behavior!!


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## JerseyGiant88 (Jun 17, 2009)

im not a breeder but in my opinion ur best option would be to put all of these stunted guys out of their misery and wait until ur original pair spawns again and sell off their new, healthy babies. you could probably grow them out for a month or two and then sell them. judging by what RD's go for at the LFS around me, you could make out pretty well, probably well enough to keep 1 or 2 of the offspring and get them their own appropriately sized tank. just throwing that idea out there.


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

thank you all fish lovers Gosh i learn something new everytime. Now i really want all this fish Gone but mom wont loss them i got her Addicted to the fishy world. i convice her to let all of them Go and keep only 6 red devils of the bigger ones (3inches?) in the 75 gallon and she will have to help out with water changes TOO!! lol hopefully 1 out of the 6 turns out somewhat a nice fish  i will keep you guys updated. btw i just posted the ad for the red devils up for free the catch is you will have some experience w C.A cichlids and had own a Convict before and a 30+ gallon w/no other fish expect for guppies  in the tank  and some basic questions


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## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

6 is to much! you already have 2 that are a breeding pair why don't you focus on them? You say you are learning but you are practicing what you learn so what did you actually learn? That you cant keep 6 red devils in a 75 gallon tank? You are going to anyway so have fun just know that they will die and you will have to live with that.


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

i dont have their mother no more she has pass away  its just a flowerhorn and their Father in the other 75 gallon. and no i am not looking to breeding this fish again ever. my mom and i want 6 of them who ever turns out the best will keep the others will find a home for.DIASTER I think they will be okay in the 75 for awhile they are only 2 to 3inches at the moment.when they grow a bit bigger will transfer them to my other tank its no problem.


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## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

A Flowerhorn and a RD in a 75 is to much you should put 1 in the 75 and keep the FH in the 75 its in You will see totally different behaviors out of both if you do that and they wil thank you for it.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Diaster said:


> A Flowerhorn and a RD in a 75 is to much you should put 1 in the 75 and keep the FH in the 75 its in You will see totally different behaviors out of both if you do that and they wil thank you for it.


I agree with that, One in each is the best plan. Both the Male RD and the Flowerhorn will be much healthier and happier that way. both of those fish get very large and really need their own tanks.


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

why do i feel like you guys are DISCOURAGING me from this hobby??? !!!??????? i have see other peoples tank with more then two Cichlid!!??!! im sorry if you guys are not happy with what im doing.but i will not remove the two fish. im trying hard not to have a third tank going on. i cant afford high bills on winter times. i feel discourage at the moment.you guys judge to quick.


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## AU Chief (Jun 20, 2007)

I don't think anyone is telling you you can't have more than 2 cichlids in a tank, its the type of fish you are wanting to have multiples of. What you have are some of the most highly agressive species in the hobby. They are young now, but when they reaching spawning age/size (which isn't really that far off) there will be all out tank warfare. Not too mention the bigger they get the more waste they put out, thereby lowering your water quality.

You can have multiple cichlids in a tank, but RD's and/or Flowerhorns just aren't the right size or temperment for this setup.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

AU Chief said:


> I don't think anyone is telling you you can't have more than 2 cichlids in a tank, its the type of fish you are wanting to have multiples of. What you have are some of the most highly agressive species in the hobby. They are young now, but when they reaching spawning age/size (which isn't really that far off) there will be all out tank warfare. Not too mention the bigger they get the more waste they put out, thereby lowering your water quality.
> 
> You can have multiple cichlids in a tank, but RD's and/or Flowerhorns just aren't the right size or temperment for this setup.


 Exactly :thumb: ! That's all we've been trying to say.

I know it's hard to swallow that considering that you've kept the fry from your pair together, but you see how that turned out. Not trying to put you down , far from it, just trying to show you why it's needed to keep this species as they should be kept.


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## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

We want you to have fish its one of the coolest things but we want you to do it right. Does it make you angry when you watch those shows on TV that show the people who have like 20 dogs; all the dogs are sick and malnourished and have wounds and all that? When they take those dogs away they are put down just to give them some peace? Its the same thing only you cant see pain in the eyes of a fish they cant make a noise or run away they are stuck.


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

Diaster said:


> We want you to have fish its one of the coolest things but we want you to do it right. Does it make you angry when you watch those shows on TV that show the people who have like 20 dogs; all the dogs are sick and malnourished and have wounds and all that? When they take those dogs away they are put down just to give them some peace? Its the same thing only you cant see pain in the eyes of a fish they cant make a noise or run away they are stuck.


my two fish are big, healthy and peaceful around each others in their 75 gallon home .not all red devil or flowerhorn's are agressive . please dont portrait me as animal cruelty person im not.i am a big time animal lover, if i have 30 something fry in a 75 its because im still learning we all go through this or similar situation ) to be a better pet owner


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## fishkeeper93 (Jan 23, 2008)

i just think you really need to take these peoples advice its probally the best around here. Fair enough every one makes mistakes but people usaully correct them when they get the advice needed. 75 gallon is not enough for a red devil and flowerhorn. You need to cull the fry for there own sake or turn them into feeders. Red devil in one 75 and the flowerhorn in the other with good quality pellets couple times a day with a good sized water changes a week but honestly put the fry out there misery please.


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## noobdood (Jul 19, 2008)

Hi guise! I have 30 cats in a 5x10 ft shed and they don't look too happy. What shud I do? Every few months I scrape out all their poops. I know I can do this because I've seen other people's sheds with 3 guinea pigs so I know I can have more than 2 animals in it. I love my cats and am taking good care of them considering how busy I am.


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## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

Even if some people have gone through a situation like this they more than likely learned from it. You are not however, the above post sounds horrible doesnt it? Well its dang close to the same thing. You have all the info you need right now I suggest you use it, if and when everything goes wrong dont blame us. If you truly love animals get it together and do whats right for the ones you have.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

oook, I'll go easy, I can be a nice guy sometimes :lol:

You should be doing at bare minimum weekly water changes with fry, preferably daily in order for them to grow properly and not be deformed like a few I see in your photo's.

Artemia (Brine Shrimp) should only be fed to small fry under 1" in size only as it is a very fatty food, making it unhealthy for them to consume. Blood Worms are a much better alternative, more nutrients, less fats.

With that, they should be getting primarily pellets, not blood worms every day, that's not healthy either.


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## eddy (Jan 16, 2009)

How big is the biggest fish in there?

I personally think you should be able to raise 30 RD fry in a 75 until they are 1.5-2 inches.

I don't think it is a great idea but I think the results should be better than what has happened here. I gotta think the problem is related to feeding and poor water quality.

If the problem was just to many fish in the tank nature would fix its self and the strong would kill the weak assuming you were keeping the water good and feeding correctly.

I would suggest feeding flakes/pellets 3 times a day and do some dramatic water changes until the water is good and then start keeping the water good....if there are deformed fish they need to be gotten rid of
In short your problem here is/was your maintenance rather than your setup/stock.

I also think if you have a rd and a flowerhorn in a 75 and they get along and you are willing to keep there water good that is not that bad either but that will require lots of water changing.


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## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

They are 9 months old and still barely over 3 inches they should be monsters by now. I agree you should be able to keep fry in a 75g, but not for that long 2 months maybe.


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## eddy (Jan 16, 2009)

Diaster said:


> They are 9 months old and still barely over 3 inches they should be monsters by now. I agree you should be able to keep fry in a 75g, but not for that long 2 months maybe.


 Yeah I agree with you. I said that because after reading this I felt like the OP may have been lead to believe what he did was just all wrong to begin with and I wanted to make sure they understand that you can in fact raise 30 rd fry in a 75 gallon until they are big enough to sale but you gotta take better care of the tank.

I just wanted to stress that feeding and maintenance is where he/she went wrong and not that they put 30 red devil fry in that tank.

I have a feeling if just 1 or two RD fry were put in there and cared for in the same fashion they would not look much better.


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## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

You are absolutely right and I was agreeing with your post just I may not have worded my last to support that. I fear the big FH and RD are in terrible shape do to poor husbandry of the tank.


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## tinamfeagans (Sep 18, 2009)

i have been feeding sunny d shrimp pellets, seems like that is the only thing he but i think it is causing him some problems, i cleaned his filter sponge and found these funny little things swimming around in the water bowl, not sure what they are, should i try and find something else to feed him, or what, any suggestions are helpful


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## Timbothediver (Jul 11, 2009)

Hi kingmidas. When raising fry, or growing on juveniles, a varied diet is very important. But, even MORE important is a regular water change. This means around 30% at least once a week. I do this twice a week now,and even every other day when my fry were very small.

I find the water changes have the biggest impact on the growth rate of my fry.

No-one likes to kill their fish, but honestly these fish are actually suffering now. So it really is the best for them. By all means keep 4 of them but please vary their diet and get into a routine of water changes. I have 5 tanks and get it done in 30 mins. I actually find it theraputic. Not sure if my fish do though as I speak with them while Im doing it !!!!!!!!!!!!


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