# 29g Multi/Julie Setup?



## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

I have a 29g tank that is currently a grow out tank for a bunch of fry but they're leaving soon and I want to setup something more permanent. I've been researching shellies and I think I have a good idea what to stock but want to get some opinions on it first.

I'm thinking about this:

"Lamprologus" multifasciatus - x6
Julidochromis regani "Kipili" - x2 or 3 (will 3 work? WIll these type of Julies work in a 29g with multis?)

Does this seem like a decent 29 gallon setup with a ton of escargot shells on one end and a bog rock pile on the other end?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd do a smaller, more peaceful Julidochromis in the 30" tank...like the 3" guys from Gombe.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> I'd do a smaller, more peaceful Julidochromis in the 30" tank...like the 3" guys from Gombe.


I'm trying to keep my fish purchase to 1 supplier if possible... here's what they have:

Julidochromis	dickfeldi	1.5"	$8.00	2 ONLY
Julidochromis	marlieri	1"	$8.00	2 ONLY
Julidochromis	regani "Kipili"	1"	$10.00	3 ONLY

They don't have a collection point for the marlieri so I don't know if they are the Gombe or not. I'll find out.

If they are not Gombe, what is another option for tank mates?


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## webbie (Apr 29, 2012)

Myself I wouldn't put J.Regani or J Marlieri in with multis,can be evil so and so's when they spawn,my regani spawn on a regular basis and when they do the female takes over half of the 200 Ltr tank ,hubby poor fella takes a pasting,maybe a single dickfeldi could work,or just go for a species only set up


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Doesn't have to be the Marlieri... doesn't have to even be the Juli... or does it? I suppose that is the question.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

A proven pair of calvus could work. A 30" tank might be too small to grow out a pair because they may need a bit more space for the rambunctious engagement/marriage process.

Or a single calvus.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Its a hard call. Yep Julies and multies can work together. But I would use a 48" to try multies plus J.regani Kipili.
Lots of safer things to go for. Multies plus Altolamprologus comp sumbu dwarf springs to mind.

Yep in a 36" 29g you may manage J.gombi/ornatus/transciptus plus multies but it far from safe. :wink:


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Well another tank is not happening... it's not "another" tank I need/want to fill, it's "this" tank. So.. a proven pair of Calvus probably can't happen since I don't have a pair already and don't have a place to let themselves be proven. So we're back to Gombe... any other possibilities?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

A single calvus. To get a proven pair you would probably have to buy from a hobbyist.

You could skip the shellies and do a brichardi species tank.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Sad truth is a 29g is small for a community tank and your real limmited as to what will go with what. As a single spcies breeding tank it has far wider species selection you could go for.
Just doing both unless you stick with the small lest mean stuff is hard and can go pairshaped.


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

Demigod said:


> Well another tank is not happening... it's not "another" tank I need/want to fill, it's "this" tank. So.. a proven pair of Calvus probably can't happen since I don't have a pair already and don't have a place to let themselves be proven. So we're back to Gombe... any other possibilities?


If you're restricting yourself to the same supplier(which makes sense due to the shipping charges) then why don't you choose a different supplier? It shouldn't be that hard to find a supplier that has both multies and at least one of the dwarf Julidochromis specie(gombe, transcriptus, ornatus). If you're really only keen on buying from the one supplier then you could always wait until they do get one of the dwarf julies in since they are not rare and shouldn't be that hard to source. I haven't had any personal experience with such a setup but based on my readings and research a lot of people say that a multie and dwarf julie 29 gallon community tank works well and provides a lot of entertainment. More entertainment than a single species tank would provide. Both multie and julie fry should survive and grow out in the tank(though you'll lose some to predation).


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

I was trying to choose a dealer close to me.. $15 overnight shipping. I can handle ordering from Daves, which has the Gombe, but charges more like $60 for shipping. Are the numbers of multies I chose ok? 6 to start? How about the Gombe?


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## webbie (Apr 29, 2012)

Cut down your outlay a bit ,get just 4 multis 1 male 3 female,believe
me you will soon have plenty of young,go for a single Julie,to get a pair you really Need
to buy 6 wait for them to pair up ,then move on the remainder,but then if you have a pair m/f and they spawn you will have a load of aggression from both sides


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

I can't get sexed multis or julies so I'll probably need to get 5 or 6 of each then and rehome the oddballs. If that's the method that works to get a tank like this running then that's what I'll do I guess.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

webbie said:


> go for a single Julie,to get a pair you really Need to buy 6 wait for them to pair up ,then move on the remainder,but then if you have a pair m/f and they spawn you will have a load of aggression from both sides


I just reread this... so you're saying that once I DO have a Gombe pair that they will spawn and the aggression level will rise, from both the multis and julies. Aggression isn't bad as long as it doesn't result in death... is this sort of interaction in a tank like this going to be entertaining aggression, or deal breaker aggression?


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## webbie (Apr 29, 2012)

OK go for 6 multis you may need to thin them out,more than one male in that tank could be problematic,I had 2 males fight to the death in a 200 Ltr set up,but honestly just go for a single Julie or risk a lot of aggro


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## webbie (Apr 29, 2012)

You got it exactly ,aggression levels will rise when and if your Julies spawn,and not just between the Julies and the multis,the female when protecting her young will give her mate a really bad time ,couple that with multis protecting their young and you will have a load of aggro,at the least unhappy fish at the worst deaths,tangs can be aggressive so and so's


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Ok. So.. a species only tank and start with 6 multies. How many shells should I try to get?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Lots. (min 1 per fish better two or three or more). The more you have the less aggression and more breeding I find plus they soon fill with the new young ones bred in the tank. If I was going to try mulies with Julies in this size tank the way I would try is get the multies breeding at one end with shells. Then add rocks or even better "breeding caves" plus 6 Julies at the other (large gap as big as you can manage, no mans land of bare sand in between caves and shells). Be ready to take the rejected Julies out once the pair/breeding group forms.
But yep usualy end up just leaving the whole thing to multies plus maybe some Paracyps. Often entertaining enough just breeding these.

All the best James


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## Shaky (Jan 2, 2003)

In my experience a 29G is still small for julies and multies both producing fry successfully. 
You could do a multi colony with maybe a couple of other singles, like a julie and a calvus (lots of choices). Or perhaps a small school of dither fish.
OR, keep a few julies to form a pair and your choices of other fish gets a bit more extensive.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

So I think I'm fine doing just a Multi tank... but before I take that plunge let's talk Paracyps.. They're ok with sharing 29 gallons with Multies?


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## Shaky (Jan 2, 2003)

The Paracyps like certain things: rock caves and large groups. It could maybe, somehow, in a perfect world, work, but again, I believe a 29 to be too small.
Schooling fish like Celebes rainbows, praecox dwarf rainbows, and even several tetra species would work in your tank. Plants could be an additional feature. Cover most of the bottom with shells.


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## vrs2013 (May 6, 2013)

I keep a pair of Julidochromis Transcriptus "Kissi Bemba" and 5 x Multi's in a 22g.

Just make sure you have alot of rocks and crevices for the Juli's and try to keep the shellies to one side of the tank, away from the Juli's.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Shaky said:


> The Paracyps like certain things: rock caves and large groups. It could maybe, somehow, in a perfect world, work, but again, I believe a 29 to be too small.
> Schooling fish like Celebes rainbows, praecox dwarf rainbows, and even several tetra species would work in your tank. Plants could be an additional feature. Cover most of the bottom with shells.


Worked for me (2 years or so) in a "garage" tank. 7 Paracyps about 8 multies (moved breeding group so not sure of numbers). 29g. Used slate as an overhang over half the tank.
That way there was room for both in semi separate areas. Paracyps living mainly upsidedown looking down (or up for them?) at the multies below. :wink:

But yep why push things. Admit that tank was an experiment forced on me when another bigger one leaked.   
And yep moved the Paracyps out to a bigger tank long term.

All the best James


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## Midknight (Dec 12, 2009)

---I once kept a breeding pair of _J. transcriptus_ in a 40 breeder with a group of _multifasciatus _and a spawning group of_ Synodontis petricola_ (or _lucipinnis_, don't know for certain). I understand your tank is smaller, but it might work if you do it right. I used slate in vertical/near-vertical formations on one half of the tank for the julies. That made for plenty of hiding places for the male and the fry. On the opposite end of the tank I had a large pile of shells - the more the merrier - for the multies. In the middle was a group of overturned clay pots and clay saucers for the synos. If you did something similar with a space in between instead of a pile of clay pots, I think you might pull it off. You could even throw a few plants in the middle to create a visual barrier, _Vallisneria _would work well. Neither species should bother the plants unless they grow immediately adjacent to their spawning sites, in which case they might uproot them.
---I would put both species in simultaneously to allow them to grow up together. We've all seen oddball pairings that worked this way. I believe if either species is allowed to get settled before the other is added, the new arrivals will be in a bad spot. 
---Also, I have witnessed a julie that was simply hellbent on killing any shellies placed in the same tank. So keep an eye on the situation as it develops and have a backup plan in case things turn ugly. I would definitely stay away from the larger julies, _ornatus _or _transcriptus _would be best.
---Good luck no matter what option you choose.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

So I'm going to just throw some dither fish in with them... after reading around I'm thinking about some Galaxy Rasboras/Celestial Pearl Danio... they're available at the same dealer as the multies.

I'm thinking I might heavily plant both ends of the tank and fill the entire center with shells. Adults are just under an inch.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Wow they sure look gorgeous. And would add the colour a multie tank needs. Are they fry safe and tollerant of your water? Kind of wish they were comon here. Much nicer than the zebras, guppies,swordtails I tend to use as dithers in small tanks. 8)


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

This is what I've found:

"As I mentioned above, water parameters appear to be unimportant as long as extremes are avoided. A pH around 7 or slightly above, with medium hardness, would be perfect, but don't worry too much about the exact numbers. Instead, spend your time doing large regular water changes. For filtration, a slowly bubbling sponge filter seems to work best, though with a lot of plants you might want to forgo even this type of filter and just use a micro power head-type filter for water circulation. Since they are from open sunlit ponds, the bright lighting required by the plants will be just fine for the fish, too."


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

There's a lot of info out there for them but I like this article about them the best:

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/the-celestial-pearl-danio-a-cautionary-tale.htm


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

I pulled the trigger on this today. I ordered 72 escargot shells from Amazon ($29/Free shipping) and setup my order with a relatively close dealer (not a sponsor) for delivery next Wednesday.

I'm planning on devoting 2/3 of the tank to the shells, with a tall pile of basalt rocks separating the remaining 1/3 portion where I plan to have a ton of tall plants that the Danios can hang out in. Perhaps tall enough to flow across the top water column of 1/2 the tank. Should look good and provide habitat for everyone. I currently have black sand substrate and a Fluval 206 w/spray bar that I plan on keeping on the tank.

I do however have 2 albino BN plecos in the tank. Are they incompatible with the multies?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Not sure but I would not trust any catfish with cichlid eggs.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Well they're not catfish... but it's probably best that I find them another tank to live in.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Demigod said:


> I do however have 2 albino BN plecos in the tank. Are they incompatible with the multies?


Not catfish? Surely you jest. Prob the commonest catfish in the hobby.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Hah. Learn something new everyday. I did not know they were catfish.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

No worries. Erm I read they are fry safe but not egg safe (unlike most catfish that eat both). Only if thier heads are too big to poke into the shells would the the multies eggs be safe.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Apparently the shipping on my shells will take longer than expected. I thought I could get them by next Wednesday but I won't get them until Saturday. Will it be a problem to add the multies to a tank without the shells and add them a few days later?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Think they should be fine. Shops keep em that way for months. Some breeders do not use shells but use bits of pipe. That way its easier to take young. Ugly though functional.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Well my plans have changed slightly. I went to what I consider the only reputable fish dealer in the city tonight, and she steered me away from the dither fish I was planning on. Beautiful, but would only end up being eaten my the multies. She has some other nice fish (can't remember the name.. rainbow something) that will get 1.5" long and have small mouths and would be less likely to get at and eat the multie fry.

I can order the multies directly from her instead of having them shipped. She knows a local breeder who might have some, and if not she can get them for me and save me the shipping costs.

So.. I have an order in for next Friday!


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Update!

I received the shells today. I have 2 boxes of 36 shells each. I have added 1 box. Is this enough shells?


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

Yes, that's enough shells. I actually wouldn't add an excessive amount since my tank has shells completely covering the floor space and I've had some issues with my multies eating fry in the past. I don't know what the reason is for my multi fry disappearing but there's a very tiny chance that it might have to do with the layout of my tank which is rather one-dimensional since it's pretty much one huge shellbed. I would advise leaving the 36 shells in there and then as your multies reproduce and your colony grows, add more shells to keep up.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

For Multies, I prefer to stack the shells, 2-3 deep, in a corner or end of a tank. Multies will live in and under the shells. Part of the lure is watching them dig sand, and protect their area. But after all the black sand gets in the shells, you may wish you went for a lighter substrate.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Still waiting on the Multies... who knew there would be a shortage just as I wanted them?

Anyways, while I was waiting I had 2 albino BN plecos in the tank. Wouldn't you know it... they decided to take the alone time and spawn! I noticed 4 or 5 of them with egg sacks attached scooting around the tank this morning. I have a Fluval 206 on the tank with a spray bar.. so I might have lost some into the intake already. I grabbed what I could find and put them in a breeder net... will this suffice?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Dunno not my thing. But a good clue to pop a sponge over the intake to stop young multies going the same way. :wink:


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Indeed. I'll get that done while I have the water out of this tank when I transfer all of these plecos to a different home. Can't have BN's in a multie tank.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Uhhhg. Fry and shells don't mix when they're in a tank you don't want them in. I've caught about 15 of them now, with a few more jumping around from shell to shell. Unless I can catch them when they're out and about I'll have to leave them as a house warming gift for the multies. Kinda like a fruit basket. Welcome to the neighborhood!


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## Shaky (Jan 2, 2003)

I keep a pair of bristlenoses in my shellie tank and they don't mess with the shellies at all. In fact, the shellies keep the catfish away quite easily. My shell-dwellers are similis, which are quite similar to multies.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Hmm... I might consider keeping one and see how it goes. If the multies can keep him away from their fry I will be happy. This particular tank has been the worst out of all my tanks as far as algae is concerned.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

No plecos or BNs please. Algae is much better. Honest. Try nerite snails if the algae realy bugs you.
Or lower feeding and light and nitrate and phosphate levels. BNs are kind of a get out for guys who can not look after their shellys. I am kind of glad they eat the eggs and get killed. Its just such a £$% ^*&% way to go. Tang cichlid tanks are special, do not fill em with such rubbish. :wink:


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Face it all BNs and snails can do is take algae and make piles of poo. The algae on the other hand is a great place for young shellys to forage for food between main feedings. It is of caurse your choice. :wink:


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

I agree with 24Tropheus that it might be better to avoid the BNs but come on that's a harsh comment! BNs and snails are NOT rubbish! BNs are awesome fish in their own right and their unique feeding behavior and predilections can be quite amusing and provide another dimension to a tank's environment.

Snails are also one of the few freshwater inhabitants that can sustain themselves in a community tank with fish quite harmoniously if kept correctly(whereas most other freshwater invertebrates available in the hobby either get quickly eaten by fish or otherwise eat the fish). When it comes to tanganyikan cichlids and shelldwellers in particular you get to observe how multies clear their territories of snails by picking them up with their mouths and plopping them in another fish's territory when breeding and incubating eggs which is entertaining. FYI, my multi tank has pond snails(supposedly pests but my population is always kept in control as long as I don't overfeed) and as far as I know they've never eaten any eggs since the multies always remove them from their shells if breeding. Also my tank still has a good crop of algae even with the snails in the tank so the fry can still pick at infusoria and aufwuchs in between feedings. Snails and algae(and plecos in the right environment) IMO make an aquarium more imitative of the natural environment. They make your aquarium more similar to an ecosystem rather than it being a sterile glass box with fish in it..


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Oh if you like em they are not rubbish. Just not the best answer to an algae prob in a shelly tank.
Far better to fix the real prob as you see it (be it lighting or phosphates or nitrates or a combo of two or three of em) rather than add stuff. Me I see no problem with a good crop of algae in a shelly tank as think it helps the young.
Pond snails well its an idea but kind of think it depends on what you get and how many diseases they carry into your systems.


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## Shaky (Jan 2, 2003)

I certainly agree that BNs are poop factories. I like them, though, and they fascinate visitors. I've not felt they were all that successful at algae control either. Maybe they should be removed, actually, but as I said, they've never caused a negative issue for me.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

The BNs keep the rocks clean, and the glass so-so. I have olive nerite snails in another tank that keep the rocks so-so and the glass darn near polished. I had 6 zebra nerites die in the the tank I have ready for the multies... and I've only found 4 of them. I cleaned out the filter last night looking for some BN fry (found none) but should probably remove the sand from the tank, remove the 2 missing snail shells, and rinse it. As well, I have 2 T5's running on that tank about 16hrs a day. Probably a bit excessive for the 3 Swords I have growing in there. Perhaps a timer is in order. That might hep my algae problem go away.


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