# 120G - is a sump worth it?



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi,

I am considering using a smaller tank as a sump for an African cichlid tank but I have a few questions.

1. Could I complete all the heating requirements from the sump?

2. Would a sump other than larger water quantities have any other advantages within an African setup?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

I find sumps to be the greatest thing ever for this hobby and yes, all filtration and heating can be done in the sump.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Did you DYI it or did you buy a pre-fab?

The concept seems simple enough - With a sump with mechanical / bio-media - I can skip the requirement for a canister filter?

To expand on the above comments I was thinking of creating a 3 chambered system.

Chamber 1: Inlet / Bio-media
Chamber 2: Foam filter pads
Chamber 3: Outlet

This probably would meet my needs and remove the ability for a canister filter(s) on-top of providing a method of live media exchange without effecting the bio-media.

I like the idea.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Is your tank drilled?


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Sub-Mariner said:


> Is your tank drilled?


The tank doesn't exist, this is a brand new project. - I am making a plan.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

I think I would prefer a over-flow box over a drilled tank - I am always paranoid over structural strength.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

I would definitely go with the sump. Many benefits. I would not go with a HOB overflow box as the consequences of it losing siphon can be major. I would go with a drilled tank and built in overflow.

I have had many different HOB overflow boxes and they worried me to no end.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> I would not go with a HOB overflow box as the consequences of it losing siphon can be major.


Would this not just drain the baffles to the pre-determined height of water and probably burn out your pump motor if without a safe guard?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
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> > I would not go with a HOB overflow box as the consequences of it losing siphon can be major.
> ...


Your pump would continue to pump the water from the sump into your main tank if you lose the siphon. It will then spill onto the floor...burning up anything that you have in your sump namely heater and pump. Again...this is if we are talking about a HOB overflow.

Do you already have the 120g tank? If so...does it not have any holes already drilled or were you thinking about having some drilled or just going to go with a HOB overflow box?

I had a tank drilled once upon a time for $10. I think bought the bulkhead for cheap and installed a overflow box and siliconed it inside the tank. No issues.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> tim_s said:
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If the vaccum stops - wouldn't the sump stop filling? Then the water left within the baffle would be pumped into the tank and possibly the pump will burn out - but wouldn't the flow only break when the return is so slow the water cannot get passed the baffles?

I haven't got the tank I am starting the build in Jan looking at tank deals, I do not even mind drilling my own tank but if anything happens when the tank is up and running this could be a bigger mess than a burnt out motor.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*tim_s*
I have used a simple aquarium, bought one, made several... Made them out of acrylic, glass, and even rubber maid tubs.

I have drilled tanks and hob over flows... *** also done diy overflows using pvc pipes. When done right, no chances of flooding nor burning out pumps. In the DIY section here on C-F, you can find tons of diy overflow discussions.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
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No...if the HOB overflow loses its siphon the pump will continue to pump all the water from the sump into the main tank. Again...this is if using a HOB overflow. Granted...the chances of this happening are pretty rare but it does happen.

If given the choice of having a tank not drilled and using a HOB overflow versus a drilled tank or reef ready tank then there is no comparison. Go with the reef ready tank..


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Number6 said:


> *tim_s*
> I have used a simple aquarium, bought one, made several... Made them out of acrylic, glass, and even rubber maid tubs.
> 
> I have drilled tanks and hob over flows... I've also done diy overflows using pvc pipes. When done right, no chances of flooding nor burning out pumps. In the DIY section here on C-F, you can find tons of diy overflow discussions.


I agree...just make sure to do it right and do your research. I made a HOB overflow that was MUCH better than the models I found on the market especially the CPR overflow. Man..talk about having trouble.

The trick with HOB overflow is to get the U-tube that goes from the overflow inside of the tank to the overflow side on the outside of the tank diameter correct for the amount of water flow. If you get that right...your siphon should never break unless a freak accident occurs.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... 4ad2eb5f9b

Scroll to the bottom of the page and the last post. Here the poster has a animation that shows how a HOB overflow works and the draw backs.

This is a very good thread when researching this project. I would start research here. :thumb:


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi,

So I am still reviewing over flow boxes / designs the box design looks great to me - does not take up a lot of room in the tank and leaves the decor pleasant, however, the PVC pipe ('u' shape) looks fool proof.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> Hi,
> 
> So I am still reviewing over flow boxes / designs the box design looks great to me - does not take up a lot of room in the tank and leaves the decor pleasant, however, the PVC pipe ('u' shape) looks fool proof.


Yep....just make sure the diameter of the pipe matches your flow from the return pump and you will be good to go. There is some tolerance so unless it is way off you should be ok.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Of-course but with a ball value you can adjust the inlet and most pumps you can adjust the return - I should be good to go.

Even though I am not a fan of how the 'U' bend shape looks (pictures to come later as I am on my work machine). - The design in theory seems very decent.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi Everyone,

Here is some of the images of the concepts:

Concept 1:










Concept 2:










Concept 3:










My thoughts 
1 = smallest and less intrusive 
2 = simple design follows the good design principal Keep-it simple 
3 = A fairly simple design and compact shape means perhaps I can hide the items hind something.

Anyone have any experience with DIY, with regards to the concepts above?


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Nobody has experience with any of these designs?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

I have used #1 as far as HOB overflows. After a year or so I went with reef ready tanks that were predrilled and had internal overflow boxes. #1 worked well for me but always in the back of my mind I would worry that the siphon may break. During normal use when running it was not a worry but what did worry me was if the power went out.

I never had any issues except in my mind. The instances of the siphon breaking are pretty rare but they occasionally do happen.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi,

Thanks for your comments, I am actually trying to decide between concept # 2, "U pipe" # 3, "tower", leaning maybe towards # 3 as this requires less piping to be within the tank. I actually work within the field of IT and have routed the tanks over UPS systems, the tanks remain running for 3 hours after a power-outage.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> I have used #1 as far as HOB overflows. After a year or so I went with reef ready tanks that were predrilled and had internal overflow boxes. #1 worked well for me but always in the back of my mind I would worry that the siphon may break. During normal use when running it was not a worry but what did worry me was if the power went out.
> 
> I never had any issues except in my mind. The instances of the siphon breaking are pretty rare but they occasionally do happen.


Hi 13razorbackfan,

Would you do me the favour of taking pictures of the connection points from your over-flows and from your pump? - curious


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > I have used #1 as far as HOB overflows. After a year or so I went with reef ready tanks that were predrilled and had internal overflow boxes. #1 worked well for me but always in the back of my mind I would worry that the siphon may break. During normal use when running it was not a worry but what did worry me was if the power went out.
> ...


I would...but I don't have my reef tanks anymore. I had to sell everything back in 2005. I just started back into the hobby this past summer. I have already amassed two tank since last summer but neither are reef ready. I will be getting at least a 6' reef ready just for africans sometime after this upcoming summer....I hope.

I knew when I bought my current tanks that I should have been more patient and just saved to get a 225g reef ready to being with. I would have saved time and $$$ I am sure.

As I was saying above...the only design I am familiar with as far as tanks that are not pre-drilled is the design in pic 1. The other two...not so much.

After worrying day and night about losing power and the siphon breaking I just sold the tank and everything with it...except for my corals and fish...and bought a 225g reef ready tank. I just wish I didn't have to sell everything back in 05.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

I assuming the corals where not alive right?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> I assuming the corals where not alive right?


Yep...they were live SPS hard corals. I still wish I had some pics to post. Corals were so nice and colorful you really didn't have to have fish even though I did. SPS corals....very expensive. I used to break off what they call frags which are just small pieces of SPS corals and sell then online for $10 each for a 1" piece of coral. The only bad thing about SPS corals...takes forever to grow. They grow really slow.

It just got to the point where I was spending too much $$$. Along with the high electric bills using the DE HQI lights....it was just too much.

I have a bad habit spending more than I intended to.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> tim_s said:
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> > I assuming the corals where not alive right?
> ...


Amazing! I never even thought about live corals and cichlids, salt is not an important element for corals?


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## chagoi (Dec 29, 2010)

IMO Drill


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
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Wait a second...LOL....I think there has been a breakdown in communication somewhere. I never put african cichlids in with corals. When I was talking about switching from the HOB overflow box to the pre-drilled reef ready tank....that was when I was keeping corals. I did have an african tank at that time but sold them all back in 2005. I just got back into the hobby this last summer. I wanted to focus just on africans this time and try and stay away from salt/corals. It can be very expensive by the time you add up the lights, corals, weekly maintenance, calcium reactor, protein skimmer, etc....


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

For second there I thought 13razorbackfan but be a razorbackfan of drugs only kidding, welcome to none-coral fish keeping.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> For second there I thought 13razorbackfan but be a razorbackfan of drugs only kidding, welcome to none-coral fish keeping.


 

Yeah...I started in the hobby 20 years or so ago with africans and SA cichlids. Then slowly converted to salt/reef. Now....I am back to where I started.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> tim_s said:
> 
> 
> > For second there I thought 13razorbackfan but be a razorbackfan of drugs only kidding, welcome to none-coral fish keeping.
> ...


Are you running a sump currently on any of your setups?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
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Not right now. When I upgrade to a larger tank then I am going back to my old setup. That is what I should have done to begin with....knew it....rushed in anyways. Kicking myself.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

But old setup with Cichlids?


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

Arriving late, but my newest tank is a 100G in wall with a home made 60G sump. I am very happy so far with the extra volume, ease of maintenance, hidden heater and other equipment, etc.

I like everything about my sump except the noise, mine is built into an insulated and sound insulated room, no way I could stand it if it was out in the open.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> But old setup with Cichlids?


Sure...all the principles are the same except with reef tanks. The sump setup just gives you so many more options plus additional water. What I plan to do....I just hope I can afford to do...is sometime after this summer purchase a 225g reef ready and convert my 75g into a sump with tons of bio media and plenty of space.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

OK! I decided (Perhaps the wife decided for me) the new tank will be for Salt water, I have built the overflow, What I did was drill 2 holes mid-top, using 1 plate of glass, I created a trough in a "V" format (I.e. the plate of glass is at an angle joining to the back plate of glass on the tank like so \|). I didn't purchase 125G in the end because of the price of Salt Tanks and I didn't want a tank this high, instead I went with a 75G and a 30G sump. I have yet to try it but I will take pictures.

If all goes well, I plan on building a sump for my current African Cichlid tank, only challenge here is the tank is actually being used currently - debating whether this challenge would be worth it or whether just adding a second canister would be a better option.


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