# Breeding the Red Lizard Whiptail Catfish



## ACC in NC

Link >>> http://www.carolinafishtalk.com/forum/b ... tfish.html


----------



## lloyd

a great post that should be converted to an article for the library. thank you very much. :thumb:


----------



## ACC in NC

lloyd said:


> a great post that should be converted to an article for the library. thank you very much. :thumb:


Thanks for the response Lloyd!

Who ever is in charge here on the Cichlid-Forum has my permission to use any of the information and pictures for the Library if they feel it will be of any help or value to anyone?

Just let me know if youâ€™re interested.


----------



## lloyd

have they ever bred in the pvc tubing? or is that just expensive play toys? lol. and by my guesstimate, the bamboo looks about 3/4-1" diameter, and 6" length? thanks x2.


----------



## ACC in NC

lloyd said:


> have they ever bred in the pvc tubing? or is that just expensive play toys? lol. and by my guesstimate, the bamboo looks about 3/4-1" diameter, and 6" length? thanks x2.


Yes they will breed in the PVC but given the choice prefer the bamboo. Your right on about the sizes!

I got the bamboo at a Hobby Lobby and only paid like $3.99 for a 6 foot piece. The bamboo will usually sink in 24 hours or less when put in the water. They do like to play in the bamboo. I've seen two different males setting on two clutches of eggs at once. They wouldn't breed as often in the PVC.


----------



## sasquatch-exists

Incredible!
I want some!!
And hello to a fellow NorthCarolinian!!!


----------



## ACC in NC

sasquatch-exists said:


> Incredible!
> I want some!!
> And hello to a fellow NorthCarolinian!!!


Hello!

Thanks for the comment!

What kind of fish do you keep?


----------



## toddnbecka

I've been looking for some bamboo for breeding caves, can't find any. Incidentally, is this a gravid female ready to spawn soon? Looks like she's full of eggs:


----------



## ACC in NC

toddnbecka said:


> I've been looking for some bamboo for breeding caves, can't find any. Incidentally, is this a gravid female ready to spawn soon? Looks like she's full of eggs:


If you donâ€™t have a Hobby Lobby in your area a Garden Ridge or other Craft place might have bamboo.

Great looking female and definitely full of eggs!

How many Red Lizardâ€™s do you have?


----------



## toddnbecka

I have 7 adults, looks like at least 5 are females. The females are all gravid, though not all as big as the one in the pic. The one male I'm certain of hangs out in a small piece of pvc pipe, barely big enough for him to fit into. Definitely too small for mating, I did put 2 2" square slate caves in the tank yesterday.


----------



## ACC in NC

One of my males guarding eggs.


----------



## toddnbecka

I checked the local craft and fabric stores, even Wal-Mart, no bamboo to be found. I saw one of the females in the same piece of pvc as the male today, though I'm still doubtful it's large enough for them to spawn in properly (1" diameter, all I had handy.) It doesn't look like he's interested in the square slate caves at all.


----------



## ACC in NC

toddnbecka said:


> I checked the local craft and fabric stores, even Wal-Mart, no bamboo to be found. I saw one of the females in the same piece of pvc as the male today, though I'm still doubtful it's large enough for them to spawn in properly (1" diameter, all I had handy.) It doesn't look like he's interested in the square slate caves at all.


I measured my bamboo and most is around 1 inch diameter and I have them cut in lengths of 6 to 7 inches.

I think you have the perfect group; you want 6 or more with a ratio of 1 male to every 2 or 3 females.

Do you know the approximate age of your Red Lizardâ€™s?

What size tank do you have them in?

Whatâ€™s your pH?

Whatâ€™s your temperature?


----------



## toddnbecka

No idea of their age, though I suspect they're young adults. They arrived as juvies a bit larger than I expected, and have grown since then. They're in a 38 along with an overload of juvie BN's growing out. Filtration is an aquaclear 70 hob and a huge (hydrosponge 5) air-driven sponge filter. The pH is 7.4, temp is 78, weekly partial water changes.
The pvc pipe the male hangs out in is barely large enough for him to fit into. He doesn't have nearly the clearance of the one in your pic.


----------



## ACC in NC

toddnbecka said:


> No idea of their age, though I suspect they're young adults. They arrived as juvies a bit larger than I expected, and have grown since then. They're in a 38 along with an overload of juvie BN's growing out. Filtration is an aquaclear 70 hob and a huge (hydrosponge 5) air-driven sponge filter. The pH is 7.4, temp is 78, weekly partial water changes.
> The pvc pipe the male hangs out in is barely large enough for him to fit into. He doesn't have nearly the clearance of the one in your pic.


They usually donâ€™t become sexually mature until about 12 to 14 months of age and should be over 3 inches long. I would try and keep their pH between 6.8 to 7.2 and 78 degrees is perfect. I keep mine in a smaller tank with only sponge filters and no other fish and I do large water changes of about 70 to 80 percent every 10 to 14 days. I usually notice they start breeding right after a large water change and they seem to breed between spring to fall and not much activity during the winter months.


----------



## toddnbecka

Well, looks like they managed to work it out with the narrow pvc pipe. The male has a small clutch of eggs in there now. :thumb: No way to get a decent pic w/out more major disturbance. I already did enough of that when I shifted the tube (rubberbanded to a chunk of marble along with a row of other tubes) to siphon the tank.
Guess it's time to set up a fry tank; is a 10 gallon a good size for that? The quickest way would be to move the Endler's into another tank. I have a 29 and a 45 sitting empty, several established sponge filters lurking around in various tanks, and a couple of new 250w stealth heaters standing by.


----------



## ACC in NC

toddnbecka said:


> Guess it's time to set up a fry tank; is a 10 gallon a good size for that?


Yes thatâ€™s perfect. I start mine out in a 10 gallon and when they reach around 1 inch I transfer them to a 40 gallon.

Some of my females will lay only 15 to 20 eggs and Iâ€™ve had some lay 75 to 100.


----------



## toddnbecka

Interesting, I figured the small spawn was due to the female being young. BN's produce larger numbers of eggs as they grow; I thought the lizards would be similar.


----------



## ACC in NC

toddnbecka said:


> Well, looks like they managed to work it out with the narrow pvc pipe. The male has a small clutch of eggs in there now. :thumb: No way to get a decent pic w/out more major disturbance. I already did enough of that when I shifted the tube (rubberbanded to a chunk of marble along with a row of other tubes) to siphon the tank.
> Guess it's time to set up a fry tank; is a 10 gallon a good size for that? The quickest way would be to move the Endler's into another tank. I have a 29 and a 45 sitting empty, several established sponge filters lurking around in various tanks, and a couple of new 250w stealth heaters standing by.


Did the eggs hatch???


----------



## toddnbecka

Apparently some had, the clump was looking smaller, so I moved the pvc tube into a net breeder. The next day it was empty, so I returned it to its original spot, and saw several tiny fry with yolk sacs in the net breeder. A couple days later the seemed to have disappeared, couldn't even find any remains when I finally took the net frame out and then checked the mesh. The male was tending another small spawn, but a few days later they were gone and he's moved into another tube. My mother-in-law passed away Sunday, and I haven't had much time to do more than feed my fish all week much less spend extra time/effort taking care of new fry. I'll get back to them when I can, likely won't be doing much with them until after Christmas now.


----------



## lloyd

since i have a trio of these cats, but had never entertained breeding them, i couldn't help but get involved since reading this thread. within a few weeks of adding pvc to the tank, all three had taken to spending time inside the pipe. two days ago, i noticed all three crammed into one pipe, and within a few hours had pushed a clutch of egg out of one pipe end. i have salvaged the rejected clutch to a DIY hatching device, which has a history of success hatching similarly rejected spawns of bn pleco, and i have also noted the male remains in pipe with a small clutch of his own. i suspect both female were gravid at the same time, but the male's interest was restricted to entertaining only one of them. now we see who is best at hatching. me? or him? :lol:


----------



## toddnbecka

It's likely the second female pushed the first clutch out when she spawned. Hatching the eggs is one thing, raising the fry somehing else entirely. Good luck. opcorn:


----------



## lloyd

toddnbecka said:


> ...raising the fry somehing else entirely.


 what happened in your fry raising occurrence? did they waste individually? or all die same day? cannibalism? predation? how long did they survive? did you witness any begin to eat? what foods were offered? sorry for all the Q's....but thanks for any input you have to offer.


----------



## toddnbecka

Not sure what happened to the fry, but likely they didn't have enough food available in the net breeder. I only saw one out in the open, presumed the rest were between the plastic frame and the mesh. When I noticed the one I had seen for a couple days was MIA I took out the plastic frame and closely inspected the net mesh. Simply no sign of any fry, dead or alive, to be found. I'll move the tube/eggs into a 10 gallon tank next time and try again. I need to get some decapped brine shrimp eggs too.


----------



## toddnbecka

So, the male has another clutch of eggs in his tube, will try again now. I have microworm cultures running amok, still need to get some decapped brine shrimp eggs. Would the 10 gallon be better with sand or gravel substrate, or simply bare-bottom with a sponge filter? There's currently a relatively large amount of Najas growing in the tank, along with dozens of Endler's and ramshorn snails. Also 2 small hob filters along with a small sponge filter to increase circulation. What needs to be moved to make the 10 suitable for the pleco fry?


----------



## lloyd

i would suspect removing the endlers would be prudent. IME, they pick at anything of curiosity.
an update of my progress: both of my spawns have hatched. the rejected spawn was collected into a floating basket and secured over a valve controlled air stone. agitation appeared to assist hatching. as many as 10-12 eggs hatched instantly when i adjusted the location of the basket one day. the pvc tube, consisting of the male and his favored spawn, was also removed and added to that same 20gal. tank. the only other residents in that tank are snails. for the first few days post hatch, they collected themselves on the glass, but i see many have begun sifting along the sandy bottom now. i assumed this to be a good time to introduce a food source. i crush HBH algae wafers with hikari cichlid pellets (ratio 3:1) into a powder, then release a finger pinch into water allowing it to slowly sink into the substrate. aggressive foraging begins shortly after regardless of lighting/time of day. 
i have also noted a few fry have taken the pvc ride back into the breeder tank with the male. this tank houses 4 mature whiptails, along with a spawn of maturing bristle nose fry. these very small whiptail fry seem of no interest to the other larger occupants and appear welcome to forage amongst them. 
i have also noted a very few fry have already collected in a tank that receives overflow from that breeder tank. obviously, concerns of filter intake, overflows, power head, etc. should be addressed seriously to keep these fry safe in one area. they appear quite willing to follow water flow.


----------



## toddnbecka

I moved out the Endler's, changed the substrate from coral/gravel to sand, and thinned out most of the Najas that was practically filling the tank. There's an air-driven sponge filter and a Whisper Jr. hob filter (sponge over the intake) for circulation and filtration. Plenty of ramshorn snails to clean up excess food. I'll be moving the pvc tube/eggs into the tank soon, leaving the male in the 38 with the unused tubes and the females. Hoping for better luck with a dedicated fry tank...


----------



## toddnbecka

The eggs have hatched, the fry have absorbed the yolk sacs, and the male (and his pvc tube) have been moved back into the 38. The fry are all over the Najas and the glass, none on the substrate or driftwood. At this rate they'll never find the microworms I've been throwing into the tank.


----------



## eric

What else can be said other than Cooooool!


----------



## lloyd

another update: i assume to have lost many of the fry, but it is difficult to determine accurately considering the coarse substrate i have. the young only cling to the glass for a few days after hatch and have now migrated to the floor. there are still quite a few, but moving them now would be an exercise in futility. next time=bare glass floor.
i am a bit curious regarding their potential growth rates. at two weeks, mine appeared to have doubled in length, but it is difficult to gauge progressive body/head growth considering their shape. i would appreciate any growth results from other breeders, so i might better appreciate my progress.


----------



## toddnbecka

Mine are less than 2 weeks out of the tube now, but I have seen rapid growth. Some are quite noticeably larger than others, but they're all becoming easier to see. I tossed a couple more handfuls of Najas into the tank. Aside from helping maintain water quality, it gives them greatly increased surface area for their constant grazing on algae and biofilm between feedings. I've been alternating live microworms with finely crushed spirulina flake, and they seem to be doing well overall.
These pics were taken about 5 days after they became free-swimming, only a couple days after they started feeding.



























Most recent pics, about 10 days after they became free-swimming:



























New clutch of eggs, smaller number than the last round:


----------



## toddnbecka

The first brood is thriving and growing like weeds, but the 2nd and 3rd clutches of eggs have apparently been eaten by the male. The 2nd clutch in the pics above disappeared the day after the pics were taken. The most recent spawn looked bigger at first, but seemed to be dwindling after a couple days. I moved the tube with the male and the eggs into the 10 yesterday, and today the eggs are all gone. Looks like I'll have to move the tube as soon after the eggs are laid as possible and hatch them w/out the male to tend them.


----------



## toddnbecka

There's a large load of eggs in the tube, looks like more than one female contributed this time. I'm watching them closely w/out disturbing the male, hoping they won't start disappearing again. If they do I'll pull the tube and move it into the 10 gallon with the fry to hatch on their own. 
The fry from the first spawn are close to 1" now. I couldn't get an accurate head count while I had the tank stripped down for cleaning, but it looks like 24-30 will be moving to a larger tank for further growout soon.


----------



## toddnbecka

I rounded up the fry in the 10, final count was 37, amd moved them into the 38 with the breeding group of adults to grow out a bit more. The tube containing the male and the eggs was moved into the 10. This morning he was alone in the tube, so back to the 38 he went, and there are new babies all over the 10 again. WIth any luck I'll be moving them out to a larger growout tank in about 8 weeks. Here are some new pics:
Fry in the transfer container:









Dropped in a nickel for relative size comparison:



























Then I found this little one in the 38 when I returned the male and the pvc tube to the tank. Apparently at least one egg hatched much sooner than the rest. He/she was moved to the 10, hopefully they will all grow like the ones above:


----------



## ACC in NC

I like the pictures!

Link >>> http://www.carolinafishtalk.com/forum/b ... tfish.html


----------



## ACC in NC

Checkout these Jumbo Whiptails I got in Wild from Peru.

Link >>> http://www.carolinafishtalk.com/forum/f ... -cats.html


----------



## toddnbecka

Sweet pickup there, they're huge compared to most whiptails. Are they algae eaters like the farlowella's? 
Ack, yet another new batch of eggs in the pvc tube today. The spawning male hardly gets a break between clutches; his fanning muscles will be all beefed up at this rate.


----------



## ACC in NC

toddnbecka said:


> Sweet pickup there, they're huge compared to most whiptails. Are they algae eaters like the farlowella's?


Aufwuchs, surface growth on rocks, wood, and surfaces in the environment. The growth is algae and small crustaceans like rotifers, protozoans, and etc...

Herbivore to Omnivore?


----------



## toddnbecka

Opportunistic omnivore like most small-mid size pleco's. NLS pellets should do them good, I feed them as a staple diet to all my pleco's and cichlids. Even the L-204's eat them w/out any problems.


----------



## ACC in NC

toddnbecka said:


> Opportunistic omnivore like most small-mid size pleco's. NLS pellets should do them good, I feed them as a staple diet to all my pleco's and cichlids. Even the L-204's eat them w/out any problems.


How are your young ones doing???


----------



## toddnbecka

For reason or reasons unknown I only have 4 fry growing out from what should have been 100+. I moved the tube containing the eggs and the male into the 10 gallon tank a day or so before they hatched. Only thing I can figure is that the snail population has grown too large, and the fry weren't getting enough grazing between feedings of microworms and powdered NLS pellets/spirulina flake. The first batch are doing fine, growing like weeds, the largest is nearly twice as big as the smallest. I dont know if it has any significance, but I've noticed that the largest and smallest juvies are brown, while the reds are more closely grouped in size between those extremes.
I picked up another 10 gallon tank, and will be moving the filters and plants over into it (leaving the snails behind) for the next round of eggs. They seem to be taking a break from spawning, no new eggs for several weeks now. I'm thinking some cherry shrimp for cleanup in the fry tank instead of the snails.


----------



## ACC in NC

toddnbecka said:


> For reason or reasons unknown I only have 4 fry growing out from what should have been 100+. I moved the tube containing the eggs and the male into the 10 gallon tank a day or so before they hatched. Only thing I can figure is that the snail population has grown too large, and the fry weren't getting enough grazing between feedings of microworms and powdered NLS pellets/spirulina flake. The first batch are doing fine, growing like weeds, the largest is nearly twice as big as the smallest. I dont know if it has any significance, but I've noticed that the largest and smallest juvies are brown, while the reds are more closely grouped in size between those extremes.
> I picked up another 10 gallon tank, and will be moving the filters and plants over into it (leaving the snails behind) for the next round of eggs. They seem to be taking a break from spawning, no new eggs for several weeks now. I'm thinking some cherry shrimp for cleanup in the fry tank instead of the snails.


IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll either get a bunch to live or hardly any and not much in between!


----------

