# Help Diagnose Sunken Belly. Parasites?



## FlyHigh (Nov 15, 2009)

100 gal tank established 5 months ago. I have had issues with slight ammonia readings (.25-.50ppm) for a two week duration two times over that 5 months. I believe it was my own fault for over aggressive filter cleaning. I've been very stable now at 0 ammonia for several weeks. Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5, ph 8.0, 80 degrees. I feed NLS 1mm with occasional Nutrafin Max Spirulina Flakes. I had reduced the feeding to every other day to eliminated the ammonia but since my ammonia zeroed out and has remained zero, I've gone back to one to two feedings a day. I don't believe the shrunken bellies are from lack of food because the twice a day feeding has been going on for over a week now.

Several of my fish are showing signs of sunken belly including my Benga, Flavescent, Fryeri, and Lwanda (All juvenile 2"-3"). The Benga is shown in the first pic (CLICK FOR LARGER IMAGE):



To a lesser extent some of my other fish seem to have flat bellies although it just may be my paranoia at this point. My Taiwan Reef is an example (LOL caught him yawning)


About a week ago I lost a 1 1/2" Melanochromis Exasperatus. I couldn't determine the probable cause of his death but shortly after that is when I started to notice the shrunken bellies in my other fish. Twice I have noticed a "pile" of greenish poop on some of my rocks. The slight ammonia readings probably induced stress and allowed the parasites (if that is what this is) to take hold so I think the sources of the problem has been addressed. Please help advise me on a course of action. Thank you


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## airedale (May 7, 2007)

I just started searching and came across your thread. I am having the exact same issues. I just lost one of my favorite fish and also have noticed some of my fish with sunken bellys. I also noticed the "pile" on one of my rocks, which I had never noticed before either.

I did just check my amonia and everything looks to be at 0.

It will be interesting to hear if others have suggestions on how to fix. I just wanted to post and let you know I am running into what seems to be close to the same problem.


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## Chicklette (Mar 4, 2010)

A sunken belly usually means parasites. I would suggest clout or jungle parasite cure. Jungle usually works really well and does not interfere with the cycling process which clout does and you just got over the cycling process. If they donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t eat you canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t use medicated food.

Also a deworming agent (praziquantel) might help! I wish you luck!


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## FlyHigh (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. I will try the Jungle route and let everyone know how things turn out. Am I correct in my assumption that the slightly elevated ammonia levels I recently went through gave the parasites an avenue to infect my fish? I just want to make sure that once treatment is done, I'm doing everything right to prevent this from occurring again. Where do these parasites come from? Should I consider my food contaminated and replace it?


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## Chicklette (Mar 4, 2010)

No, the parasites can't come from the cycling process. Bacterial, fungal and secondary infections can come from the cycling process. The parasites come from other fish. They pass it on from one another. Your food is not contaminated; they cannot get parasites from that. However, if you are feeding feeders, live fish, then yes they can come from that plus a whole bunch of other illnesses.

But the jungle meds should not interfere with the cycling process. That is what I like about them plus they work.

Are they flashing at all? (Rubbing on rocks.)

Oh and when you medicate make sure you take the carbon out of your filter, it removes the meds. When your done and there better put it back in.


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## FlyHigh (Nov 15, 2009)

No, none of the fish are flashing. In fact, the fish seem normal except for the sunken bellies and the occasional piles of green poop that I've seen on rocks. I'm almost afraid to treat them with any medicine in case this is not a case of parasites. I'd hate to do more harm then good. I bought the Jungle parasite medication today though and unless I hear from anyone why I shouldn't use it on my tank, I'll start treatment tonight.

The directions say to use 1 tab per 10 Gallons. I have a 100 Gallon tank but with substrate and rocks displacing the water there is likely a lot less then 100gal. Do I still use 10 tabs (1 tab/10gal)? The directions say to dissolve the tablets for tanks greater then 40gal. I guess I wait for the tablets to stop fizzing and disappear in a bucket of tank water before adding it back to the tank?


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## Chicklette (Mar 4, 2010)

Yes, put them all in and when they are done fizzing kind of swish them around into the gravel because that is where the parasites drop off too. And use 1 tab per 10 gallons like the directions said.

Also feed them some peas. This will clean them out. :wink: Seriously!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

The Jungle Parasite Clear is a good choice. A sunken belly usually does mean parasites but it can also be from an internal bacterial infection. Even so the JPC is a good first choise as it contains metronidazole which is effective on parasites and some bacterias. If you don't see improvement in your fish after the JPC then you might want to consider something that is specific for bacterial infections.

On the parasites--if we're talking about bloat: bloat is thought to be caused by internal flaggellates that normally reside in the fish harmlessly and only become a problem when the fish comes under some sort of stress, (yes the ammonia spike but it can be any number of stressors that starts it off).

Robin


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## FlyHigh (Nov 15, 2009)

Thank you all for the advice. I did a 40% water change and a good vacuuming today and then administered the JPC. I dissolved 10 tablets in a bucket of tank water and then added it back to my tank. I'll continue with my twice a day feedings and hopefully will see an improvement. I'll post back in a few days either way to share my outcome.


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## FlyHigh (Nov 15, 2009)

Well, so far all my fish are still swimming so that's good. I guess it will take some time before I notice any change in the fish's bellies. I'll keep feeding them twice a day as usual. One thing though, my water has gotten noticeably cloudy. Still showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5 nitrate, 8.0 Ph.


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## Heyguy74 (Aug 11, 2005)

If the fish are eating you may want to try soaking some pellets in metro. Getting the meds in their stomach will help even more.


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## FlyHigh (Nov 15, 2009)

*Update:*
My water has cleared back up and is no longer cloudy from the meds. My fish however still have the same sunken bellies. I've been feeding twice a day in larger portions then I normally do. Except for the sunken bellies, they are acting better then they ever have. Even my normally shy juvie Lwanda is quite boisterous. They are all very hungry and are eating well. Is it possible that I'm actually just underfeeding them or is there still a problem I should be worried about? An hour or so after feeding their bellies do round out a bit which gives me hope but it doesn't last until the next feeding. Should I give it another week or so to see if they fill out or should I try other meds or repeat the Jungle?

Thanks


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Probably not that you're underfeeding them. If you just had one or two with sunken bellys then maybe but usually at least one fish will be sure to get enough.

Did you go two full rounds of the JPS--two or whatever the maximum the package recommends?
If so then I'd try feeding them metronidazole soaked food. You can get the Seachem Metronidazole powder. Mix it up in a very small amount of water and then soak the NLS pellets in it and feed all fish once a day. Dose at the highest amount the package recommends. After ten days there should be some improvement. If not then we'll have to try something else. 
Fit in as many partial water changes as possible. A little dissolved met in the water won't hurt, either.

A few years back I bought a group of yellow labs that had sunken bellys. After determining that it wasn't a lack of food I treated with Met-soaked NLS pellets and it worked great. 
It's a good sign that your fish are still eating but you do want to take care of it.

Robin


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## FlyHigh (Nov 15, 2009)

Robin, thank you you've been so helpful. I'll do the second round of Jungle and see how it goes from there. If that doesn't do it, I'll take your advice and do the Met treatment. I'll post back in a few days with another update.


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## FlyHigh (Nov 15, 2009)

*UPDATE*

After the initial 2 treatments with Jungle, several of my fish continued to display sunken bellies. One fish also continued to excrete long, clear poop. After a week I decided to do a second round of treatment with Jungle but this time I administered the two treatments with only 48 hrs between them with a partial water change as per the directions. I began supplementing their NLS diet with Ocean Nutrition's Green Marine Algae with garlic extract. This is the stuff that looks like sushi seaweed wrap. I secure a couple of strips of this to a small PVC tube using rubber bands. My fish attack it like you can't believe and shortly after, they start to poop as I believe the algae sheets act as a laxative in the same way the peas would. I tried the peas but couldn't get the right fish to get to them before the more dominant fish would. I believe the algae/seaweed and garlic supplement, along with the second course of Jungle is working. Their bellies are looking normal and I'm noticing a nice healthy brown poop from my Flameback Hap who had the clear poop. If things take a turn for the worse I'll post back but for now thanks for all the advice and help.


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