# 75 gallon fishless cycle help



## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

Hey guys, Im fishless cycling a new 75gallon and could use some opinions on where Im at in the cycle.

My water is already pretty good from the tap with a GH of 8, KH of 7 and PH of 8. I threw in a little bit of lake salt and buffer to help.
Heater is on and set to 85. Have 4L of Matrix in the bottom 2 trays in my FX5.

I found that adding 2TSP of Ace ammonia gets my ammonia level to 2-3ppm. Hard to tell, API kits are junk.

So I added my initial ammonia dose and tested for ammonia every day. On days 7-8 I noticed a gradual drop in ammonia with a slight increase in nitrites. On day 9 I had a ammonia reading of 0 with nitrites increasing. I then added my 2 TSP of ammonia to bring it up to 2-3ppm again

Day 10 I didnt test and did nothing to the tank.

Day 11 I had a ~1ppm reading of ammonia with a ~2ppm nitrites.

Day 12 I had a 0ppm reading of ammonia and again added 2tsp of ammonia. Nitrites ~5ppm

*Today is day 13*, Just tested ammonia and its around .50ppm. Nitrites are off the scale. Very purple.

Im assuming tomorrow ill have a ammonia reading of zero again.

Do I continue adding ammonia every time I get a reading of zero? Do I keep doing this until my ammonia dosage is converted in 24 hours?

Am I still in the early stages of the cycle where im looking for my ammonia dosage to be converted within 24 hours?

Or am I in the stage where I shouldn't worry about ammonia and strictly test for nitrites and watch for a nitrite drop?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

If the ammonia reads zero after 24 hours and you have nitrite, I'm pretty sure the cycling article states to wait 2 or 3 days before re-dosing the ammonia. If the nitrite level remains high for a couple days, you can perform a partial water change of about 30% without affecting the cycling process.

This info should appear on pages 2 & 3 of the article by Tim Craig.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

I suggest doing a water change to bring nitrites back down cause this can slow your cycle. Dose ammonia every 2 days and keep changing the water to keep nitrites at testable levels. Some will say you can just change the water till nitrites are at testable levels the wait till nitrites drop then start dosing ammonia, so really its up to you. Both ways seem to work the only difference would be a maybe a few more days added to your cycle time for the latter.


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

That's the thing, it takes longer than 24 hours to get an ammonia reading of zero. Right now (today) its looking like it takes 48 hours to process my ammonia dose. Is the time it takes important in this stage?!

*** read Tim Craigs article, It is helpful, but I feel some very important details are left out.

On day 9 I had a ammonia reading of zero...so I added my dose again.
On day 12 I had another ammonia reading of zero...so I added my dose again. That's 3 days between doses...just like the article suggests.
Today is day 13 and I haven't added any ammonia, only tested.
Tomorrow is day 14, should I add another dose of ammonia?

I agree with doing a 30% water change but wont changing the water remove some of the ammonia?

Will I have to redose with ammonia after a water change to bring it back up to 2-3ppm?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Schedule the water changes to coincide with a 0ppm ammonia reading, then dose ammonia. This way you're reducing nitrites and not ammonia.


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

Thanks for the help guys!

*Day 14* As suspected the ammonia was at zero today. I had to do a 50% water change just to get the nitrites back on the scale (its either 2 or 5ppm, cant tell). I would've liked to do a 75% WC but I didn't want to risk damaging the bacteria.
Added another 2tsp ammonia.

I have a feeling it was taking the biofilter longer than 24hours to process the ammonia due to the high nitrites inhibiting it. Will be interesting to see how these next few days go.

Im getting tired of looking at an empty tank. I just want to stock this thing already!










I plan on the initial stock to be
6 juvenile rusties
6 juvenile white tailed aceis
6 juvenile yellow labs

later on I might add some afras... but lately *** been thinking about Perlmutts


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Patience and fishless cycling are a bit frustrating, especially when you are anxious to stock the tank.

Very nice rock set up! I love the color combinations.


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## B.Roberson (Nov 6, 2011)

been there, done that recently. keep doing what the above say.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

nice rocks where did you get them


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

I found the selection of rock in socal to be poor. I was looking for small angular boulders that had a blue/grey tint to it.

The closest rock I found out here as to what I was looking for is what they call "blue cresta". However I wasn't pleased with the selection, size or colors that were available.

Finally I found exactly what I was looking for on the side of the Colorado river in Laughlin, NV while visiting family. They were using it for erosion control on the bank, I thought they were using too much... :thumb:


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Setup looks real sharp! Love darker rocks.

What's going in the tank?


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Man i was so hoping you said you had found them here in socal, I was gonna pick em up asap


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

Thanks! Initial stock will be 6 juvenile rusties, 6 white tailed aceis, and 6 yellow labs.

Once I can sex them, Im looking refine the group to:
1m:3f aceis
1m:4f yellow labs
1m:4f rusties

then add another 1m:4f group. either afras or?? ...im undecided.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Nice. I would suggest getting 8 each for a better shot at 4 girls.

Pick a blue barred species for your 4th. Hundred of em out there...


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## Idisc (Jul 30, 2013)

In my time with cycling your tanks fishless you never wants to do a PWC - If your nitrites get so high you can't read them, stop adding in ammonia - Not adding ammonia will be fine up to about 1 week. You are overloading the Nitrites doing this which is making it tough for the NitrAtes to form and start eating the NitrItes. Give it a few days and I'm sure you will notice you will have NitrAtes building up like crazy - At this point add in about 1-2ppm and lets that drop to 0 and then let your NitrItes drop to "0" - Your NitrAtes should be super high. Once that happends keep dosing the tank until you can convert 1-2ppm Ammonia to NitrItes and then to NitrAtes within 12 hours.

But don't keep on adding ammonia if your Nitrites are off the charts, as it can shall your cycle. Once you are converting everything within 12 hours - do a 90% Water Change - Add your stock - checks levels for the next week or two in order to make sure your cycle is continuing to work properly.

I have cycled and 3g / 10g / 30g / 55g / 75g this way and never ran into any problems. Although I am not an expert, this is what has worked for me


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

On day 15 I had 1ppm ammonia. Today (Day 16) 0 ppm ammonia - nitrites off the charts, so I did a ~75% WC. Nitrites are now ~2ppm. Added another dose.

These water changes are breaking my back! How long do I keep doing WCs and dosing?! Obviously till I get a nitrite drop...hopefully soon.

If theres a method that cuts down on the water changes and speeds up the nitrite drop im all for it


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

you don't have a python or equivalent? my water changes are a breeze, turn on the faucet and wait...


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

THunter said:


> If theres a method that cuts down on the water changes and speeds up the nitrite drop im all for it


If you can, add some mature filter media from a healthy tank to your filter. Other options are bio supplements. Dr. Tim's One and Only and Tetra SafeStart are two of the better products on the market.


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

My Nitrites are off the charts again. Im going to stop dosing ammonia, do a huge WC and let the nitrites drop to zero.

I think im not allowing the nitrates to build up and start converting nitrite, due to the high level of nitrites.

Thanks for the tip Idisc :thumb:


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

I think im getting pretty close (or im already there) with being done. Took way longer than I was expecting it to. I thought I had a failing motor on my fx5 (outflow reduced to a trickle) but found a clogged media pad under a tray of matrix (stupid oversight, forgot it was there) that stalled my cycle.

My tank is processing 2-3PPM of ammonia and fully converting it to nitrate in 24hours.

Some say its ready at 24 hours. However, *** read that its not ready until it can convert it in 12 hours? Is that true for a half dose?

If I get the green light from you guys, I should have fish in it on Thursday :thumb:


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

What is on your stock list? I would say if your adding all juvies go for it your ready, if all are full adults I would maybe shoot for the convert in 12 hours scenario.


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

6 juvenile rusties
7 juvenile yellow labs
7 juvenile white tail acei

looking for a ratios like this later
1M:4F rusties
1M:3F white tail acei
1M:4F yellow labs

Then adding another 1M:4F group of black barred male/non yellow female later on (afras?)


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

yea definitely ready for this stocking, make your final water changes to get nitrate within 5-10ppm wait another 24 hours without dosing to make sure all ammonnia and nitrite are completely consumed, add your full stock and enjoy.


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

Do you think I could get away with adding another 7 juveniles to the initial stock? I think that might be pushing it a little.

I really like the Elongatus chewere and would shoot for a 1M:4F ratio. I have the rusties already and have one male rusty around the 2" mark. The rest of the stock will be 1.5" fish

Should I just add my original stock, grow them out, get my ratios, then then add the juvenile cheweres later?


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

I would add everything 2-3ppm I think would be hard to produce out of just juvies, but on the other hand 27 is quite a bit of fish as well, I keep American cichlids so would never introduce this amount of fish to a tank so I can't say for sure.

If it were me I would introduce all at once then keep some Prime handy in case I get a mini cycle, but I think as long as you don't overfeed you will be fine.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

walzon1 said:


> I would add everything 2-3ppm I think would be hard to produce out of just juvies, but on the other hand 27 is quite a bit of fish as well, I keep American cichlids so would never introduce this amount of fish to a tank so I can't say for sure.
> 
> If it were me I would introduce all at once then keep some Prime handy in case I get a mini cycle, but I think as long as you don't overfeed you will be fine.


+1

I would get 8 labs and rusties. Probably the acei as well. Get at least 10 chewere.


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

Yesterday I got the fish, I ended up getting 7 white tail acei, 7 yellow labs & 7 Elongatus Mphanga. 1 Mphanga was DOA, I lost another Mphanga and an acei last night that got pretty beat up during shipping. I didn't think they were going to make it from the looks of them. The rest of them are doing very well and getting along great. Im watching the water parameters very closely and everything is right where it should be. *** started light feeding and theyre hungry! :thumb:

Thanks for all the help everyone. Im really happy with the way the tank turned out, I might have to enlarge the holes on the spraybar a bit, the fish seem to like swimming in the current however I think it might be a little too strong. A little more flow and gentler current with the enlarged holes wont do any harm.

I really like the Mphangas, glad I went with them over the chewere. Is there a chance the Mphangas can crossbread with the acei?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

There's always a chance, but I wouldn't be too worried about that. What sucks is that you're down to 5 elongatus mpanga. You may end up needing more. What did the seller say about the dead and beat up fish? Bagged with one another, I presume? They look considerably larger than the acei and labs, but that could be the picture. Either way, deaths could have been avoided if they were bagged singly.

Tank looks real nice, BTW.


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

The mphangas are the same size, must be the way the picture makes them look.

Im a bit bummed *** already lost 3. I personally don't know any LFS were I can find mphanga here in socal, so for me to get more mphanga Id have to order from the same seller, and pay overnight again (ouch! $). The fish came in 3 bags, separated by type, which I thought was too many to a bag...without a coolpack (here in socal its been over 100 the last week) I don't think the seller used hypno or bag buddies, as the water was clear and the fish were pretty alert right out of the box. It doesn't appear they were fasted either (lots of fish poop in the bags) The seller didn't say much, except that in shipping because theyre confined, aggression is much higher (obviously) and their fins should heal up in a bigger tank with better water.

In my opinion if they were drugged, the aggression woulve been almost nil and I probably wouldn't have lost fish. I could be wrong because *** never shipped fish before, so what do I know, but that's my opinion.


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## THunter (Jun 30, 2013)

A few days ago I noticed a few small white spots on a few of the white tail acei. Definitely ich. I immediately raised the temp from 77-79 to 86-88 and added 2tbsp per 10gal of aquarium salt over 48 hours. I have my 36W Turbotwist UV going 24/7 also. Within 2-3 days the ich is gone on the fish, however im going to continue treatment for another 5 days to be on the safe side.

Out of the 20 fish I ordered, 3 died within 24 hours of arrival. Now im dealing with ich. What a rough start.

The rest of the fish seem to be doing very well though.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

Sorry to hear of the problems. Just the stress alone can cause them to have ich, or the parasite was present in the tank they were pulled from. Just be aware that the ich can multiply after they drop off of the fish. So I would definitely continue treatment for the week as you said.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

I wouldn't worry about it too much ich is fairly common in a new setup, usually the cause is when things like PH, Temp, Nitrates, Oxygen/Co2 or any other parameters fluctuate causing the fish to stress, even the fish having to adjust to thier tankmates can be stressful. In a new tank it is inevitable that this will happen given everything introduced is new and has to acclimate to the ecosystem, so fluctuations will always occur. Keeping a regular water change schedule and maintenance schedule will help keep things in balance.


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