# Convict and Terror Hybrid - How did this happen?!



## illunara (Apr 20, 2020)

In my 80gal my green terror M and convict F have been breeding. The convict is well over two years old - I'm not sure of the terrors age, but I bought him when he was relatively the same size as the convict, earlier this fall. I knew it was possible that they would try to breed, but I obviously didn't think it would happen.. but low and behold, they're on their fourth clutch this year.

The first clutch hatched but no fry seemed to survive - the terror male was eating some of them. The second clutch had about 10 survivors - some of them are still in the tank, and I mean they're cute, but Im likely only going to keep one of the nicest ones to throw in another tank.

I destroyed another egg clutch the other night as well... If this keeps up I'm going to have to separate the two but I'm hoping once the terror grows out (he's just starting to exceed male.convict size) their mating behavior will hopefully subside. I have an Oscar in the same tank so he's slowly been picking off the babies as they're getting big enough to see now


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

It's good that you post this as the common thought is that a CA cichlid and an Acara are too distantly related to produce offspring. I would suppose that the resulting offspring would be sterile, but who knows.
The fry look the part, and I am not trying to nitpick, but to really demonstrate that this cross has occurred, I think you need to at least show pictures of the parents; better yet a picture of the parents together tending fry but really just pictures of the parents would suffice. 
Thanks for posting this. It's always interesting to see strange crosses, especially ones that cross the limits on what is generally thought to be possible.


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## illunara (Apr 20, 2020)

I've attached a photo of the parents - the terror is the only one protecting fry anymore. In fact, the convict is attacking her own babies as she just layed another clutch the other day


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Thanks for posting the pictures :thumb:The picture is good evidence and the fry do appear to have traits of both!
This is a cross between fishes of different tribes. Therapsini ( CA Convict cichlid) X Cichlasomatini ( SA Green Terror). Now the question is, what are the limits of cross breeding cichlids ? 
There has been a few claims over the years of severum X convict. No pictures of the parents with fry so it generally wasn't believed and was doubted in threads. One thread showed an offspring that really looked the part. Striped like a convict, and shaped like a severum. Both a severum and a convict belong to the same tribe, Therapsini, though they are thought to be a little more distant then say a CA cichlid and another CA cichlid. Have to think now that this cross is possible and has likely happened considering that the fish you have crossed are even more distant. 
Red Terror (_Mesoheros festae_) , umbie ( _Kronoheros umbriferum_), and Australoheros species are all SA cichlids that are known to be able to cross with CA cichlids. But these are all considered to be very closely related to CA cichlids and belong to the same tribe, Therapsini. 
There is a picture from way back in the ACA files that was posted on the internet once, that shows a _Geophagus brasiliensis_ and a CA cichlid (I forget which one) guarding a clutch of fry :lol: It raised the question if a brasiliensis really was a Geo since they often behave more like a CA cichlid though DNA results today show that a brasiliensis does belong to the tribe Geophagini and is closely related to other Geos.
Now we know for sure that a CA x Acara cross is at least possible sometimes. What is possible and what is too distantly related when it comes to SA X CA crosses? Who knows :lol:


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## Bakeneko (Oct 25, 2021)

Hello just came across this do you have any of these hybrids left? If so I'd be interested in obtaining some from you. Did you let any of them grow out to see what they would look like as adults? Thank you for sharing this.




illunara said:


> In my 80gal my green terror M and convict F have been breeding. The convict is well over two years old - I'm not sure of the terrors age, but I bought him when he was relatively the same size as the convict, earlier this fall. I knew it was possible that they would try to breed, but I obviously didn't think it would happen.. but low and behold, they're on their fourth clutch this year.
> 
> The first clutch hatched but no fry seemed to survive - the terror male was eating some of them. The second clutch had about 10 survivors - some of them are still in the tank, and I mean they're cute, but Im likely only going to keep one of the nicest ones to throw in another tank.
> 
> I destroyed another egg clutch the other night as well... If this keeps up I'm going to have to separate the two but I'm hoping once the terror grows out (he's just starting to exceed male.convict size) their mating behavior will hopefully subside. I have an Oscar in the same tank so he's slowly been picking off the babies as they're getting big enough to see now


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

@Bakeneko , the OP hasn't been on here since May 2020 so I doubt you will get a reply.


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## Bakeneko (Oct 25, 2021)

I figured but was worth a try.


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## BlueLineAquaticsSC (Jul 16, 2021)

I’m convinced you could Bree do convicts with anything. African cichlids, fancy guppies, maybe even a Rottweiler


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## EricTheRed (Jun 16, 2012)

HaHaHa, so true!


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## Azedenkae (Apr 19, 2012)

We have known for a long time that species from different cichlid tribes can hybridize, specifically between the Heroini and Cichlasomatini. So it had been quite the surprise in the past that green terrors cannot hybridize with species from the same tribe, let alone the Heroini. But I guess this just affirms that the green terror and likely its close relatives are just like most other american cichlids we know of and can readily hybridize. Cool.


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