# Another 3D Background first timer



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

First I would like to say Hello to everyone here @ Cichlid-Forum. Iâ€™ve been reading posts here for about a month now and I've learned a lot. This website is much better than the competition that Iâ€™ve come across. Iâ€™ve had a mixed cichlid tank for the past three or four years and recently moved, giving me the desire to completely rethink how I setup my tank this time. I ended up in the DIY section and started seeing all these cool BGâ€™s everybody was making and thought I could do that. So here we go, first I had this 55 gallon setup for about 4 years already and it was a straight up petsmart project, plastic everything with crushed coral. I made the stand and canopy with help from my uncle who is really good with making furniture. Plus he had all the tools. I stained it but never put any finish on it. Yea thatâ€™s right I left it a dull dusty wood grain for 3 Â½ years. I was just so ready to put fish in it I couldnâ€™t wait any longer and took it inside saying I would get to it. (never happened) Now I think I can do better. So then starts my revitalization project as I will call it. Here is the stand and canopy after I painted it black with a new 60 gallon tall black tank with black trim and black silicone. I canâ€™t believe how long it took me to get this tank. I went to one of the LFS and they told me they would order the tank I wanted and have it in a week. It took six weeks before it got there and when it did they told me they forgot to order the tops so I had to wait another week to get them. Needless to say I will never spend another penny in that place. I saw the same tank for sale in Petsmart but they were very cheaply made the glass wasnâ€™t even cut evenly on the sides and it had sharp exposed edges. And they only wanted to sale me the tank and a stand to go with it. They wouldnâ€™t sell me just the tank. I changed all the hardware on the stand to better match what I was looking for in my new stand. I used black paint from the Martha Stewart collection called French Bulldog Black in Semi-gloss latex I got from HD. I am very pleased with how this looks. Sorry I donâ€™t have any pics of the painting process.  I cant figure out how to post pics can somebody tell me


----------



## tommy022060 (May 1, 2008)

Hi Ctin, go to the link below sign up for free. Then upload your pics after you do that on the top right you will see image URLS, click on that and you will see the pics that you uploaded. Then cut and paste forums TAGS and paste it back here and your pics should show here.
Good luck with your new project and let us see how you progress. Don't worry if no one replies or you dont get a lot of replies to your work or pics lol I didnt get much either but still posted lol.
Tommy

http://www.picturetrail.com/members/edi ... incCID=870


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks tommy, here is my tank. My left handle is off a little no biggie. 
/


----------



## tommy022060 (May 1, 2008)

YW CT, How much did that tank and stand cost u?
tank looks nice I like the high the 3D background will look cool with a high tank :thumb:

and what kind of filter system will u be using?


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

I made the stand and canopy four years ago and i think it cost a couple of hundred in wood and materials im not sure and plus the prices have changed on everything since then. It only cost me about 25 bucks to paint it black though. I liked the higher 60 gallon over the 55 i used to have also. The tank was a custom order from Perfecto and it was 190 with new glass tops. For my filter system *** got two Penguin 350's HOB I want to switch to a canister but Ill see. I need to figure it out real soon though. Ill be out looking for a canister filter the next few days. *** got one powerhead Im going to be putting in the tank also. no UGJ's for me. *** read about them but never used them. I never had a problem keeping a clean tank or with fish poo.
I wanted to originally switch to a 90 gallon tank but I would have needed a new stand and canopy and I cant do that right now.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Now comes my 3DBG. After reading many posts here are the materials I should need. All of this ended up costing me about 50-60 bucks @ Lowes.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

This is a drawing of how I would like to shape my rocks, not gonna look exactly like this but it should be close.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Here is my BG coming together. I modeled it off of a BG I saw on page one of tommy022060 post on Styrofoam Background. But not exactly the same I added my own touches to it and more spaces for fish to get into the BG. I used toothpicks to hold it together while I carved it, 100 pricks later it was done. It was helpful that I was able to move the pieces around as I was cutting them it allowed me to clean out all the mess to. Next time I will need to think of some other way though. Those toothpick pricks hurt. Finally I used a hot glue gun to stick the pieces together and removed all the toothpicks. I figured that glue shouldnâ€™t be an issue because it will be sealed in concrete and maybe epoxy. I read some people using silicone for this but I figured to knock down on time I would use glue. It worked perfectly and quickly with a glue gun and bonded in minutes as opposed to hours for silicone.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

here it is just about finished. I wanted this block look. I didnt want it to look smoth


----------



## mncherie1 (Mar 27, 2009)

Great, please keep updating as I am looking to build my first 3-d background myself. I have read a gazillion posts and think I am ready, but you are super-detailed and I like the pictures. :thumb:


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Cut into smaller peices to fit in tank. Anyone feel free to comment or ask questions


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Total time spent on BG so far was about four hours of serious work. 1/3 of that was cleaning up the mess. I would work for 10 minutes and clean up for 5. I found this helpful in not creating to big of a mess as not to anger my wife. I did it on the kitchen table and living room floor. (no garage) I would appreciate any questions, comments, or constructive criticism anyone has to offer. This is my first BG and I donâ€™t know what to expect I am learning as I go. :fish:


----------



## Mlitt12345 (Apr 4, 2009)

Looks very nice :thumb: , what do you use to cut out the detail?


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

I used a long utility razor blade. The kind you can slide in and out of the handle to about four inches long. That was it. For the groves in the rock face I just went in at extreme angles. This White styrofoam is very forgiving. You can slash it up with the razon and a minute later you cant even find the marks. I litterally was hacking away at this thing. Be carefull not to cut yourself though I almost did a couple of times.


----------



## tommy022060 (May 1, 2008)

Very nice  CT keep up the good work


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Im currently looking for a canister filter to switch to. Does anyone have any suggestions. I have two penguin 350's HOB that i used before. I think my tank will look cleaner without the HOB's and Ill be able to push my tank closer to the wall. Im working on getting a pic up of the background inside the tank.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Here it is in my tank. I havent cut any filter holes yet im waiting to decide what filter system to use.


----------



## tommy022060 (May 1, 2008)

CT, I am using a Rena XP3 for my 75 gal Ram and discus tank and also running a cascade 1200 that I got on sale for $90 a few months back they are both rated for 150 gallongs. The cascade I am going to use in the 55 Gal that I am doing the background on. I am running the cascade in the 75 Gal tank so that I dont have to cycle the tank once the background is ready to go. 
The cascade seem to put out more power than the Rena. I have seen some complains about the cascade about leaks and noise. So far the one I am using is working fine and I have 2 friends that are using the cascade also and no complaints. I even have a 2nd one lol for back up just incase something goes wrong.

Tommy


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks for the info Tommy, I really appreciate the feedback you've been giving. Last night I went out looking for a filter and PETCO had an Eheim ecco 2236 on sale for 160.00 so I scooped it up. Its rated at 80 gallons so it should overfilter my tank. Once the background is in I think I will have an actual water volume of 50 gallons or so. :thumb: I will be cutting holes for it tonight and should have some cement going on this thing by tommorow and you know the pics will be posted as soon as possible so check back. I cant wait to see what this thing is going to look like once its all finished. Im going to use my two Hob's as backup if I ever have any canister problems. Ill just hang them on the front of the tank until I get It fixed. Also Im thining ill use them in the first couple of weeks to get all the dust and dirt out of the water once the substrate goes in. After that Ill start cycling and getting some fish in there with the canister filter.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Correction the Eheim was 130.00 on sale 160.00 was the normal price.


----------



## Auntbeast (Mar 1, 2006)

Before you mount that puppy, take some advice from me. Really, really, really think about what you may want behind that. You have a golden opportunity to run an undergravel jet system without seeing the hardware. Depending on your filtration, you could mount some screening and pop heaters back there. Carve out caves, if your fish like them. Maybe some spots to mount plants, temperature probes.

It is far easier to make those slots now before you go a'concretin'. No. Really. Set down the concrete. Now...breathe...then go for it. 

Take a look at some styro before and after concrete, you will get a better idea of what will and won't show up.

It is a blast and they look great. I am eager to start my next one.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions Auntbeast not to switch subjects but how did you come up with that tag  I thougt about UGJ's but I dont think they are necessary. They might work or they might not, *** had success with my aquarium before and never used them. I would personally just rather vacuum and turn over my substrate once a month than have to deal with the frustrations *** read about on other posts of people who didnt like them. I also dont want to complicate my tank anymore than need be. The less things *** got running a tank the less that can break and need to be fixed. As for my heater I am planning on an external diy heater setup yet to be determined. I probably wont even need that, I havent even used my heater in three years. As for the plants, if I get the look I want I wont be using plants. If I need the plants for color Ill just put them in the substrate.
Im working on getting my next set of pics up. *** got my filter, cut out spots for the intake and return, designed a couple of other structures that i might use and already got two coats of crete on them.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Okay here is whats been done this weekend. I cut out spots for the filter system.
















I dont have a good pic of it but for the intake there is a slot between the rocks for the water to flow and fill the intake chamber.








Here are the sections after one very thin coat of crete. These are still wet.
























*** already done the second coat of crete and will post those pics tomorrow. The sharp edges have been softened a bit more by the second coat.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

I went to lowes today and was wondering what people have used to coat their backgrounds and what works good. Anyone sealed a background and what did you use?


----------



## tommy022060 (May 1, 2008)

I use Parks epoxy glaze it cost about 25$ here in NY at Home Depot


----------



## Auntbeast (Mar 1, 2006)

If you mean my name, Aunt Beast was a character in the book "A Wrinkle In Time" by Madeleine L'Engle. Otherwise, I have no idea what you mean. 

That has to be the smoothest layer of concrete ever. It looks more like paint. Very nice progress. Oooh, don't put the concrete on so thick the pieces don't fit together any more. (voice of experience)

I didn't seal mine at all. I'm not sure my reasoning, but I wanted it to be matte. I want algae to grow on it. Seems like the more nooks and crannies, the better. I'm fixing to start on a background for a 10 gallon.  That should be interesting anyway.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Auntbeast, what type of quickcrete product do you use for your backgrounds and how have they held up in the water. Im using the quickcrete mortar mix wich is just a powder and has no rocks in it whatsoever. I ended up wetting one of my sections yesterday to see how it would look wet and I thought it looked good wet but I dont think the mortar mix is going to hold up in water so I need to step back and rethink this step. I put on a second thick coat and it looked good Ill post the pics when i get time. But the peice that i got wet with the water hose is now softer than the other two peices even after a day of drying. Maybe the mortar mix isnt the way to go. Any thoughts anyone. Also I am thinking about painting the BG and sealing it has anyone ever done that before. I could get more colors on it if i painted it


----------



## gtsum (Feb 25, 2008)

looks good!


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback tommy. Here are the pics of my background after the second coat of concrete. My number one mistake at this point was rushing. I suggest that anyone attempting a background not to rush. After I read posts of people saying to take your time I found myself rushing wanting to get to the next step. What a mistake, I put the concrete on so thick and so fast I almost ruined it. I was racing against a nagging wife and daylight so I was in a loose loose situation and I should have just called it off for the day. well anyway I got a couple of closeups of the horrible texture and look I ended up with.
















The entire background had this look. The concrete was thick as mud and I basically just dumped it all over the peices then took a brush and got of the excess.








The smaller peices are structures I was thinking about putting in my tank. I know it looks horrible and I almost scrapped the whole project here. But Ill never quit. I did my homework and decided to take another route here.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

I went and got some 60 grit sandpaper and me and this background had it out. Here are the results.

























As you can see I brought this thing back from the dead. I went so deep I hit styrofoam in a lot of places but that shouldnt be a problem for my next step.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Here is my next step. I read a few other posts and seen what other people were using and thought I would give it a try. I was going to just do another coat of really thin concrete and seal it but that would have taken some time and was expensive. I looked at that parks epoxy but it would have cost 80 dollars a gallon and Thats to expensive. Plus my goal was to do this cheaper than buying one. I got drylok and another bottle of color.










This stuff is 20 dollars a gallon and should do the job and give me the look I want.
It will also seal the background whil giving me a thin layer to cover any exposed styro that I have.


----------



## tommy022060 (May 1, 2008)

CT thats looking pretty nice  Are you going to color that or are u going to leave it the way it is?.
yeah and dont rush take your time and enjoy what you are doing because when you are done you will really enjoy it. I dont even have fish in my tank yet and I get a kick out of looking at the tank fill with water and rocks and no fish lol.


----------



## tommy022060 (May 1, 2008)

CT are you going to use epoxy Resin on top of that? I see you are using Latex base. I dont think that that is waterproof. it may be water resistant. AC Arnold posted on my page to use Acrylic base.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Here it is after my first coating. This stuff was easy to use and went on just like paint. I didnt have a strong smell either. I mixed a bit in a bowl and added some color then applied it. Im pleased with the look I got after this stuff dried. It remained black even after it dried. Also its hard as rock. I would still recomend putting concrete on before this stuff because the concrete smoothed out the edges of the styro and gave me a more textured look. The drylok is thin. Im going to apply another coat of black, then a final coat with a color im going to mix up. These pictures dont do a good job but I think the backround looks better in person.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Ill test my smaller pieces and if they dont hold up ill seal it then.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Hey tommy i went back and read your post. He does say acrylic base but in HD and Lowes there was no acrylic base. There was oil base that came in gray only and then the latex base that i got which came in white only. He did say he did a couple of coats in white so maybe he used latex maybe not. Ill investigate and see if there is an acrylic base.


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

*** looked into an acrylic based drylok and havent found it. I went to dryloks website and there is no mention of an acrylic base only oil and latex so I think i should be OK with latex base. It says both of their products hold up the same and Ill let you know how this holds up as soon as i can. Keep checkin back for updates. It will be a few days before i post again. *** got to build up my layers. If anyone else has used drylok let me know what kind you used and how it held up Thanks.


----------



## bell (Dec 12, 2005)

fyi you are good to go, i tested this method a while back.....
the latex drylok is what you want to use.......

you didn't even need to use concrete (providing you chip out most of the styro behind and silicon it in)

i'll see if i can find some pics of my test pieces.....i had a nice pH meter which i used to monitor for changes in the water parameters (along with my test kit), also i went through and "blotted" with a paintbrush different shades of the drylok, it came out very natural looking.
my large piece (which i donated to MFR) had about 6 coats on it.


----------



## bell (Dec 12, 2005)

here's a few old pics....


















the test piece...


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks for the info Bell, I like the background you made. Im going to add some color also just dont know what color yet. I currently have two coats on and im gonna do another tomorrow. Hope to have the new pics posted by midweek.


----------



## bell (Dec 12, 2005)

the large background piece is in one of tfg's clients tanks i believe, he said it looked awesome.
i used the same color stuff you used, just a few drops will change the color on some small batches, i dabbed the deeper crevices with a darker mix.
in all i made about 4 different shades, 2 heavy first coats then the rest was simple dabbing for the natural look, i found starting with the darker parts first then the lighter made it blend better.

i'm curious to see how the red cement color will look with the grey drylok....do they make green too? 

here's the thread when i posted it (from my 350gal "build"), somewhere around page 6, all the pics are gone but the text is still there 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... &&start=75


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

*** had this done for about two weeks now but *** been very busy with family and work. *** got all the pics of it coming together and i am going to back post those for everyone to see also. I will get more pics up by the end of this weekend. Im currently doing water changes so the ph will go down and everything can leach out of the background.


----------



## effan07 (May 28, 2009)

that looks awesome man, really nice.

cheers evan


----------



## tommy022060 (May 1, 2008)

CT you never said you were a ARTIST!!!!!!!!!! LOL
the BG is really coming out real nice


----------



## R-DUB (Jun 3, 2007)

The BG looks very cool. Nice Job. How thick is the final BG? Did it bother you to lose the depth due to the BG thickness. This was a concern of mine. Again nice job!!


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

In a couple of spots its about 4 inches deep the majority of the background is only about 2 to 3 inches. Im thinking about putting some live plants in there also. Anyone have any suggestions on what else I could use to add more to the tank. I should start putting in fish in the next week.


----------



## Stiletto (May 17, 2009)

Very nice! I like the red tint in it. I like your design too. I could picture it hanging on a wall in a modern art display. Great job!


----------



## ctinsley (Apr 24, 2009)

I feel that it is necessary that I summarize my project for those who are interested, so here we go. First I would say to anyone who is thinking about making a DIY background to go for it. This experience has been worth the time and effort. I enjoyed making something that at the beginning I was unsure about. This was truly my first time attempting such a project and it turned out better than I imagined. I do believe this entire project can be accomplished for 100 bucks or less. This cost me a little more around 150 because I didnâ€™t know exactly what I was doing or what to use. I am confident that my next one will be done for under 100 bucks. Iâ€™ve actually still got a lot of materials left. When it comes to making the background I would definitely recommend using some sort of mortar because it is smooth with no rocks in it and you can easily mold it to get rid of sharp edges left by cutting the foam if you use foam. I would also recommend Drylok just because I used it and it does work. You can also tint it just about any color with some cheap acrylic paint from the craft store. There are many ways to do this I am sure but I am only familiar with how Iâ€™ve done mine. *Donâ€™t rush and plan out all your equipment ahead of time*. My heater is hidden behind the background with the filter intake and my air stones are at the very top of my background so that no bubbles are flowing up through the tank.


----------

