# water current with discus



## markscichlids (Feb 6, 2009)

im setting up a 120g planted discus tank i have calculated that the filters i will be using will only give me around 3.5x turnover so i was planning on adding a 3000lph powerhead to increase flow for the plants , but i have read that discus like calm water , would the current from the powerhead be too strong?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

I would put some water pushers like koralias in... I would go for two Koralia #2s in your shoes...
I might even go for three K1s spread around. Either way, it is better for both the plants and the Discus than one 800GPH pump IMHO.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

A turn over time of 3,5 should be just fine. I have know idea why you think you need more curent for the plants. Do you use CO2? If so it will be released faster on the water surface with high currents. High flow levels will have a negative effect on plant growth, stimulate algea growth (high oxygen levels) and Discus won't like it. They do like some flow but it has to be diffused and they do prefer low or moderate flow levels. Again,3.5 is good and nothing good will come from adding an extra pump or power head.


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## markscichlids (Feb 6, 2009)

ok thanks for the replies . no i wont be using co2 just a planting substrate and i will be dosing the water colum with tpn+ and flourish excel .

i will leave the powerhead out also .


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi Mark,

Sounds like a whise decision. Natural CO2 should be enough for the easy and moderate demanding plants so you don't have to waste money on CO2 equipment. The moderate water flow is fine for discus and the plants. Be careful with additional nutrition in the wat column. Often those contain nitrates and phosphate. For discus you should keep the nitrates defenately below 20mg/liter. Best is 15mg/liter or les. Besides that high levels of nitrates and phosphates can couse serious algea problems. I prefer iron ferts in the past.

For water changes I recommend to do 25% to 30% every other day depending on stock levels. Best for the discus is large 70% water changes a few times a week but I don't think your plants will tolerate that. So thats why I recommend more and smaller water changes. Removing spoiled food inbetween the plants and from the substrate is very important becouse decaying food can foil the water rather fast. Good luck en maybe you can post a pic of your tank and fish on here.


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## markscichlids (Feb 6, 2009)

thanks i will look into the ingredients of both ferts before i buy . waterchage wise i was thinking of working with an initial regime of 30% every 2 to 3 days and seeing how that gos then adjusting accordingly if need be .

once the tank is all set up planted and stocked i will post some pics for sure .

thanks for the help


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi Mark,

Doing a 30% water change every other day sounds like a good plan. Dough you might want to consider a quick vacume of the substrate every day. It only takes up 10 minutes. Nitrate levels is not the only thing that determines if the water is clean or not. Your fish will tell you when the water is clean and they show it with bright strong colors and a light base color. If the fish get dull colors and show a darker les vibrant body color it is also time to do a wc. Look at the diference in coloration right after a water change and you will know where I am talking abouth.

Take care and I love to see some pics on here later on.

Ruurd


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## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

Water changes every 2-3 days?? If you have no filtration at all or the tank has just been set up without cycling that would be necessary!

My 80 gallon plant tank has 4 discus that are about 4" without fins and has about 10 other residents. I do a 30% water change about once per month or up to 6 weeks. My discus are thriving. Two of them spawn every week or so (although the eggs always get eaten).

My filtration is very simple, a fluval 305 with 4 marine land bio-wheels as a returnand a powerhead for current. Thats it! there are tons-o-plants in the tank to provide secutiry, but my discus rarely hide.


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## markscichlids (Feb 6, 2009)

its not a new tank its a mature tank thats been running for almost 2 years , im just changing it from severums etc to a planted discus tank


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

I'm not going into debate abouth the percentage and number of water changes. You can check www.simplydiscus.com/forum for more info on the care and needs of discus. Notice all the expirienced and knowledgeable breeders and keepers do large water changes. Why would that be? Any way,....I keep and breed discus. The female of my 2 year old breeding pair is 6 1/4 inch TL and the male is 6 3/4 inch TL and spawn every 5 to 8 day's. Up to you what to do but I hope it is in the benefit of the fish.


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## markscichlids (Feb 6, 2009)

no matter what i had in a tank i would never entertain going any more than a week without doing a water change . with my current stocking i do 50% weekly , for the discus i will be doing at a very minimum a 30 to 40% change every 3rd day and a daily substrate clean , i will be investing a lot of money and effort into setting up and stocking this tank , and do not intend to let all my research hard work and financial investment go down the pan due to poor care of the fish , i only keep my fish 1 way and thats the way that suits the fish not the way that suits me .

my fishkeeping philosiphy is as follows
sensibly stocked tanks 
good water 
good quality diet .

do these 3 simple things and the rest looks after itself .


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

=D> I agrea completely. We have the same philosophy only I would add "avoid stress for the fish". Your plan sounds solid and workable. :thumb:


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## markscichlids (Feb 6, 2009)

thanks dutchdude , at the moment the tank is unstocked , and i am keeping the filter ticking over by dosing ammonia to 5ppm, the cheque should be cleared in my bank by next weekend , at which point i will be ordering a 2nd filter all substrate plants etc and some new heaters as i suspect the thermostats on mine are faulty , they are only set at 24 deg c at the moment but when i put my hand in the water just feels too warm . once all is set up i will add the dithers and monitor for a week or so to ensure i dont get any unplanned ammonia spikes etc , then once i am happy that all stats are stable i will add the discus .

it was meant to be done this week but there was a delay in my pay so i have had to put it back a week or so . im really looking forward to the challenge , as not only will this be my 1st time with discus it will also be my 1st planted tank ( i could never have plants before as my severums would eat them)


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

I'm not a fan of putting amonia in for cycle (I have something against chemicals in tanks) but I always add some pleco food like waffers, shrimp sticks or something like that. The day before I put in the fish I do a large 80% wc.

Now,....adding tetras,....good idea but the problem with tetras is they are sensitive for getting Ich. Especially Neon and Cardinal tetras. It often shows up 7 to 10 day's after they are put in your tank. Along with the tetras I would buy meds for treating Ich. When you didn't detected Ich after 2 to 3 weeks it is save to add the discus.

Are you sure you want a second filter? A large water change will take out more as a filter. :wink: A long hose for draining the tank and filling it from the tap (at the same temp as the tap water) sounds like a better investment to me.

Ruurd


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## markscichlids (Feb 6, 2009)

yes i deffinately want another filter as the eheim 2028 im using only gives me just under 2x turnover .

the ammonia solutiion i am using only has 2 ingredients , water and pure ammonia , so the only chemical i am adding is 1 that would be produced if fish were present anyway , thus keeping the established bacteria fed and alive whilst the tank is down . i prefer it this way as it gives me total control of the amount of ammonia , as i know the concentration of the ammonia sollution ( 9.5%)
from this you can calculate the exact amount needed to acheive 5ppm .

the only problem im having for now is that while i wait for the cheque to go through i keep looking on youtube at planted discus tank videos and its teasing the **** out of me :lol:

as for doing a large water change before adding any fish , it will be getting the largest waterchange possible ,100% as i will be emtpying it out and giving it all a good scrub, no detergents mind just hot water and elbow grease :thumb:


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi Mark,

OK I see your turn over issue. I agrea that barely 2 is on the edge and I would have added a second filter as well. Two of those would be great dough! It gives you 4 times turn over maximum and when the filter starts to clog a bit you should be around 3 times turn over (nice for a planted tank). Eheims are nice reliable filters except for the Ecco series. If you can afford a second 2028 it would be great. You could clean one every 4 weeks so the interval between cleanings is 8 weeks for each filter. This should give you a nice stable filtration. Eheim also sells pre filters for their filters. Basically it is a cup with a filter pad situated on the botom of your tank placed on the intake hose. If you would use this and clean the pads 1 or 2 times a week you would decrease the cleaning intervals with at least 2 to 3 times! A sponge on the intake works good as well.

The ammonia thing,...yes I know and lots of people use this method. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I trust more on "nature". Every one his own method. I don't like it my selves but lots of people use the same method you are using right now.



> the only problem im having for now is that while i wait for the cheque to go through i keep looking on youtube at planted discus tank videos and its teasing the #%$& out of me


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Yes thats the hardest part on a new set up!


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## markscichlids (Feb 6, 2009)

yes 4x is what im aiming for , i figured it would be a good medium . giving reasonable turnover for the plants whilst keeping the current calm enough for the discus to be happy.
as for the filter itself the pro2 2028 like i have is now discontinued , but i hear good things about the 2217+ and reading its stats it seems to be the perfect choice to give me 4x . 
as for the ammonia thing , im only doing that because i was expecting to have the funds earlier than i will,so i made sure i had all the current fish re-homed , so now i have to wait for the fish , and i dont want to have to cycle the tank again.

also i have decided that rather than cardinal tetras i will have rummy nose tetras. 2 reasons for this choice , 1stly *** always took a shine to them but never had a setup they would work in, and 2ndly after doing some reading up i think they will be much more suitable for what i want .

the hidden plus side of having to wait longer than expected for the funds to do this is that it gives me extra time to think about things again and change little things here and there. and time to read more and learn more

with this project i am dropping myself in at the deep end as it will not only be my 1st experience with discus but also with planted , so i am taking good encouragement from the positive feedback you are giving me concerning my plans.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hey Mark,

The Eheim 2217 is defenately a good choice. It is one of the classic filters and does have a good price/capacety ratio. Parts are easy to get and the filters are reliable. You also might take a look at those Marinaland filters. They are also an interesting filter and works the same as the Pro2, seem to be reliable but are cheaper as an Eheim.

Rummy Nose,...those are wonderful fish but unfortunately some of the most delicate tetra's. They need a quarantine for sure and I advice you to put them in perfect clean water and feed them bbs. Don't buy rummy nose with faded red. You should buy the H. Bleheri. The Bleheri shows an entire red head from nose to gill plates and a small line from the lateral line pointed to the back with a length of abouth 1/2 inch. The once with the red nose are a diferent specie from a cooler aria and don't handle 28C to well on long term. You can use the Bleheri to determine when it is time to do a water change or to detect if something is wrong with the tank/water. If the red color on the heads become washed out something is wrong.

You will find that domesticated discus aren't to hard to keep and plants are probably your biggest challenge. I suggest the easier and hardier once like Echinodorus species, java fern and anubia.

Your welcome Mark and feel free to ask my opinion any time (PM).

Ruurd


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