# canister selection



## serp (Sep 3, 2009)

Anyone have suggestions on canister selection for me? i am going to be setting up a 37g tank.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

most canisters for a tank that small are decently priced, just look around an research what you want out of a canister

you can probably get an eheim classic, fluval, rena, or marineland c series for around 100 you just have to look around, petco is having an online sale on the marinelands


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## serp (Sep 3, 2009)

*** read most of the reviews, they all seem similar, some good, some bad. any features in particular that would be best for my setup? I plan to keep oblongums, kribs, and dither in the 37g w/ driftwood and 3m Color quartz substrate. I would prefer to only clean out the filter 1x a month.

I read that it may be a good idea to get a filter with an impellar thats not on the bottom due to having sand in my tank. Is that sound advice, and if so any suggestions on what the best canister in that category would be?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

I don't know the ins and outs of all the different canisters, I just know that some have different media capacities than others, and the media designed for each are differently priced, i know that the marineland c series and penn plax cascades are designed for quick and easy maintaining, fluvals are supposed to be the same way but i keep hearing horror stories about them leaking everywhere

i use a penn plax, it keeps my tank really clean, they are cheap, easy to clean


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## serp (Sep 3, 2009)

Would an eheim 2028, or 2026 be too much flow for my tank? Which would be ideal, cost aside?

Also for almost the same price, can get a flubal fx5, would this be too big? i know its something crazy like 600gph which is good in saltwater tanks, but not sure about cichlids.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i guess a lot of people here like 10x the gallonage, cichlids supposedly are messy, I don't have problems with ~180 gph but i do want to add a powerhead to help move water, what do you plan to put in your tank? a ton of flow will not be that beneficial to most cichlids. but a ton of flow in one location isn't as bad as spreading it over the entire tank imo, i hear a lot of leaking issues with fluval and they tend to be higher priced than say the marineland c series, one of my local places has the eheim classic 2213 for under $100, but from what i see from eheim their filters are rated at a lower flow rate tham others and marineland tends to use a higher flow rate on their models, it really all comes done to what you want to get out of your filter, on my tang tank that is a 29 gallon i have a filter that pushes over 200gph it moves the water really well and keeps the temp very even in my tank and i have an advantage with a high tank and bottom dwelling fish, so they don't feel the current as bad

I am also very big on having my intake on one end and my outlet on the opposite end of my tank, this way water acually moves around the tank and you're not just sucking up the water you just spit out


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## serp (Sep 3, 2009)

The 2028 would be approximately 7.5x turnover in my tank (37g). I belive it comes with a spray bar, so the output would be distributed, I could put the bar at the top rear, and aim it towards the front bottom to hopefully sweep waste towards the back of the tank and up into the filter intake.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

serp said:


> Would an eheim 2028, or 2026 be too much flow for my tank? Which would be ideal, cost aside?


I use a 2026 onna 37G tank along with an AC70 HOB and a reverse flow UGF. Its inna Fancy Goldy tank that is way overstocked. Be certain there is plenty of current. Not sure which would be ideal but the 2026 works in this size tank.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Targeting X times turnover rates is a great way to provide a â€œrule of thumbâ€


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i kind of agree with justifying certain filters for somehting like a 37 gallon, I know it's not a tiny tank, but it's deffinately a tank I wouldn't spend a ton of money on for filtration, nor would I want to spend a ton of time cleaning, I reserve my time and money for my show tank (hopfully multiple soon) although i love all my fish so they don't get shafted


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## serp (Sep 3, 2009)

Thanks for the responses. After weighing everyones opinions and all the research I am going to go with the eheim 2028.

Good point regarding the rocks/displacement of flow. from my saltwater experience, generally one would aim for the rule of thumb, and then position the flow generating devices in a way not to disturb corals, but provide them adequate flow. It is also important to not let detritus settle on substrates and rock surfaces. I assume the same is true for freshwater tanks?

I only plan to have a couple of pieces of driftwood, and some low light plants, but I think with proper positioning on the spray bar it will provide enough flow. The point is the same as saltwater correct (not to let detritus accumulate on substrate?)

I think a decent flow can be achieved by pointing the spray bar to the front of the tank (should stir up anything there), and the intake will create some draw in the back of the tank. If necessary i'll supplement somehow, and eliminate dead spots.

As far as the canister maintenance, i have no problem pulling out a prefilter and rinsing it off every week or two, thats easy! the chambers are in handled baskets, so that should make it easier to do more in depth maintenance.

How do you suggest cleaning biological? pull it out and swish it in a bucket full of conditioned tap water to free it from detritus?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

noooooo, if you rinse bio media at all do it in tank water that you pulled out of the tank, too much fresh water can shock kill bacteria, or so i've been told, better safe than sorry.

i never rinse my bio media though...


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## serp (Sep 3, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> i kind of agree with justifying certain filters for somehting like a 37 gallon, I know it's not a tiny tank, but it's deffinately a tank I wouldn't spend a ton of money on for filtration, nor would I want to spend a ton of time cleaning, I reserve my time and money for my show tank (hopfully multiple soon) although i love all my fish so they don't get shafted


true, but the cost is nowhere near the other side of the fish keeping kingdom...I won't get into how much $$ i have spent on saltwater equipment and supplies  :lol:

Easy for me to justify spending a little more on this tank, its the biggest, and only tank i have room for in addition to my 14g saltwater tank.


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## serp (Sep 3, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> noooooo, if you rinse bio media at all do it in tank water that you pulled out of the tank, too much fresh water can shock kill bacteria, or so i've been told, better safe than sorry.
> 
> i never rinse my bio media though...


If I do it in water thats been conditioned with prime, isnt that essentially the same thing as a water change? basically its just pure, theres no dissolved organics in there for the bacteria to break down.

I can see how rinsing it in untreated water with chlorine and chloramines would harm/kill off bacteria, but don't see the harm in swishing it off in some treated water. That should only remove any excess detritus caught in the media (and adding to nitrates.) Only reason i bring it up, as it would require extra effort to collect the old tank water w/the python :lol:


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I higholy suggest using thorough prefilters and Mechanical Media before the Bio Media to prevent much of a need to wash it...

Physical waste breaks down into a 'sludge' type substance and oozes into the pores that are the only benefit to Bio Media... It's often not so easy to 'swish' this sludge out of the pores, but leaving ithem cloged leaves that particular pore useless...

Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't... so it's best to not let the sludge build up to begin with...

But... yes, it's fine to swish the bio media in conditioned water, either fresh water with dechlor or tank water from a water change...

It is a misconception to think "tap water kills bacteria"... it is proper thinking to say "chlorine / chloramine kills bacteria and tap water usually has chlorine / chloramine in it"... Once you remove the chlorine / chloramine, the tap water is good stuff that is not harmful to your bacteria...

While I've never used the Eheim 2028 so I can't comment on it specifically... it sounds overall like your on the right track...


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## serp (Sep 3, 2009)

Thanks for the clarification Toby. I will plan to innoculate and change out bio media every so often then. What would you think an adequate rate would be? once every 2 years?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

to me there is a reason you only do 20% changes and not 50-75-100 too much fresh water is a bad thing, chlorine or no chlorine, it's just as easy to dip it in your bucket of tank water as it is to dip it in a bucket of fresh water with prime, especially if you use a hose to fill the tank


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## serp (Sep 3, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> to me there is a reason you only do 20% changes and not 50-75-100 too much fresh water is a bad thing, chlorine or no chlorine, it's just as easy to dip it in your bucket of tank water as it is to dip it in a bucket of fresh water with prime, especially if you use a hose to fill the tank


not if i have my python connected to my bathroom sink and there is no clearence to get a bucket underneath.


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## serp (Sep 3, 2009)

Toby_H said:


> Kribs are River fish and should be fine with a fair bit of currentâ€¦ I must confess I have no clue what oblongums areâ€¦


They have been around since the beginning of the hobby apparently. Here is a thread about oblongums:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=169279
and an article about them:
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=371


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

When doing water changes I drain water directly out into the yard/gardenâ€¦ I agree it would be easier for me to use conditioned tap waterâ€¦

As for only doing 20% water changesâ€¦ many of us do much larger water changes without problems. We need to A) be cautious not to make large PH swings & B) To properly remove chlorine / clamoring. Other than that huge water changes arenâ€™t a problem/risk at allâ€¦


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Toby_H said:


> Keep in mind that the rating on filters is the motor without any restrictionâ€¦ Most canisters function at about 50% of their ratingâ€¦ Several manufacturers are starting to offer suggested â€œactualâ€


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

Toby_H said:


> When doing water changes I drain water directly out into the yard/gardenâ€¦ I agree it would be easier for me to use conditioned tap waterâ€¦
> 
> As for only doing 20% water changesâ€¦ many of us do much larger water changes without problems. We need to A) be cautious not to make large PH swings & B) To properly remove chlorine / clamoring. Other than that huge water changes arenâ€™t a problem/risk at allâ€¦


major error on my part .... i siphoned the whole of my 150g!!!!! because i got distracted by some important phonecall so the 50 fish were literally in puddles.

but because i have a load of substrate and two canisters ... i just filled it up from the well ..no chlorine!!.... and it was like nothing ever happened. To be frank i wasnt the slightest bit worried because i knew the bio was all over my rocks and in the substrate ..one major reason not to have a bare tank.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

fox said:


> Toby_H said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind that the rating on filters is the motor without any restrictionâ€¦ Most canisters function at about 50% of their ratingâ€¦ Several manufacturers are starting to offer suggested â€œactualâ€


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

I just did maintenance onna 2028 last wekend. Replaced all bio media after ~4 years and pads. I can pop off the return and time 5 gals in an elevated bucket. Should give a fairly good base point on a used pump with fresh media. From experience after 3 months it's flow degrades ~ 50%.


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## serp (Sep 3, 2009)

fox said:


> I just did maintenance onna 2028 last wekend. Replaced all bio media after ~4 years and pads. I can pop off the return and time 5 gals in an elevated bucket. Should give a fairly good base point on a used pump with fresh media. From experience after 3 months it's flow degrades ~ 50%.


yeah, if you dont mind, would be interesting to see how the pump performs after 4 yrs.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Toby_H said:


> Eheim offers a "Pump Output"... which is the max volume the pump can theoretically move with zero resistance...
> 
> Eheim also offers a "Filter Circulation"... which is what they claim the filter will actually move with media in place...
> 
> ...


I did a little flow testing this afternoon. Not without excitement as I forgot to remove the siphon cap off the return before removing the hose.

I just did maintenance last week on a Eheim ProII 2028. New bio media and pads. It ran in a 65G tank with 17 mbuna/ haps/ peacocks so some detritus was ingested during the week but it runs along with an overflow so we can assume better than 95% effeciency.

Eheim claims 277GPH pump output and 198GPH filter circulation for this filter.

I took a 5 gal bucket and elevated it to about 6" below the rim of the tank. The time it took to fill was 1minute 25 seconds. If I did the math correctly that works out to 211.76GPH. Just a bit over what the spec called out and about 76% of the claimed pump output.

Now I know there is error and other factors I might have overlooked but it is very close to what Eheim advertised. When it is time to refresh this filter I will again test for flow and see what it degrades to. Mebbe my earlier guesstimate of 50% degradeation over three months was a bit high.


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