# HELP!! Everyone dying suddenly help ?



## lucky777*** (Dec 5, 2005)

So I transferred all my fish over to my new 150 gallon from a well established 50 gallon that's been running for a year. All the sand rock and the existing filter were moved over.

The only things that were new that were not moved over from the old tank were 2 additional bags of play sand (that were rinsed until clear, have used this brand in other tank from home depot), styrene egg crate under the sand, fluval fx5 (contains new ceramics and dollar store scrubby pads) and finally a DIY spraybar I made for the fx5. The spray bar was made from grey potable pvc and I used sluyter pvc s-40 glue which I let cure 24 hrs. No glue was used connections in water.

I was home about 5 hours ago all was fine and they all came out to eat just fine and looked good. Came back from work and dead fish everywhere. Lost 2 juli's, 2 leleupi,1 comprecisseps and m,ight lose some more. I rushed the remaining 5 fish to my quarantine. They were all gasping for air. The only air I had running was some been blown in via powerhead tubing. Apparently the air pump was not plugged in all the way and had shut off.

Do you think the simple lack of air could have done it or could it be the styrene egg crate, pvc glue, play sand, scrubby pads? Sucks that there is no way to test for chemical pollution. Nervous to try and put the fish back in.

So bummed out and discouraged right now


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## lucky777*** (Dec 5, 2005)

If it helps, I went down to the basement and looked and them in the quarantine, it's only been 45 minutes and they looks 100 percent normal now. They went from dead white and floating to full color and swimming normal.

Do you think it was just air?

If it was chemical would they not probably be still feeling the effects?


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## mhertzfeld (May 19, 2012)

Maybe the existing filter you moved over and the bio inside of it wasn't enough GPH for all the extra gallons of the new tank? How many hours were the fish in the new tank before you saw them dying? Did you test the water for ammonia after you quarantined the remaining fish?

Regardless I'm sorry for your lose that has to be rough especially investing so much into a new tank.


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## lucky777*** (Dec 5, 2005)

Tested the water and looks like Bio wasn't enough. It's like it caused instant cycling. I thought I prepped proper this time. Read a bunch and even posted the question here about transferring biomedia. Looks like we cant be right all the time. F*********** bad luck.

They had been in 24 hours.


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## mhertzfeld (May 19, 2012)

lucky777*** said:


> Tested the water and looks like Bio wasn't enough. It's like it caused instant cycling. I thought I prepped proper this time. Read a bunch and even posted the question here about transferring biomedia. Looks like we cant be right all the time. F*********** bad luck.
> 
> They had been in 24 hours.


I'm sorry, we all make mistakes.

When I cycle with fish in the tank, I do 25% to 33% water change everyday and run carbon mixed with an ammonia neutralizer (fluval makes some that comes in prefilled bags which is what I've used) until I get healthy nitrate readings. Now thats just what I do and it isn't the proper way, but I've had a lot of success. Just make sure you keep up with your PWCs and watch your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels.

Good luck.


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## lucky777*** (Dec 5, 2005)

Fish are all in quarantine tank. Just going to let it cycle fully before putting them back in. Don't feel like doing water changes.


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## lucky777*** (Dec 5, 2005)

So this is very strange. I took ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings and they are all coming up good and at zero. Is it possible that It was at its tipping point for the bio load with the media I transferred to the new tank and then corrected itself within 48 hrs. Remember I transferred everything Sunday and the readings were through the roof Monday, now its midnight on Tuesday and everything's at zero again? The water went from cloudy with sand debris to foggy and smelling like ammonia to crystal clear now and no smell.

So confused. Is it possible that it corrected itself?


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## FanOfSkynyrd (Nov 25, 2012)

Correct me if I am wrong, but 0 nitrate is not good. No nitrates means no BB.


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## Koteckn (May 16, 2012)

When I start a new tank, I normally place my seeded filters on the new tank and let it run with no fish for 24-48 hours. Once that short amount of time passes, the fish go in. I've never had a problem with seeded a tank this way and have never lost a fish doing it.

My guess is that your BB took a few days to fully cycle into the new water. I would try to reintroduce the fish from quarantine one at a time until you stock your entire tank. Start with a smaller/less expensive fish of course just to be on the safe side but if all of your readings are at 0 and you know the media in your filters is seeded, your water is most likely fine.

The reason the nitrate would still be at 0 is because there is now no fish, hence, no new waste in the tank. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't this be the case? The water is basically as pristine as it will be at this point.

Good Luck! I look forward to seeing how you solve this problem.

- H


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

With three times the water and the same filter that was used on the 50g, it doesn't make sense that you would have any cycling issues at all. The increased volume should only help with water conditions, not hurt them. If the tank volume isn't getting turned over enough by your original filter (you didn't mention gph as mhertzfeld said), that might be a bit of a different story. We are currently in transition with a couple of our tanks though, and 1 AC110 has been holding the bioload of a fully stocked 125. In other words, it can be done.

You could always seed your FX-5 for a week or so with part of the media from the old tank, and not wait a month for it to cycle on its own though. Just cut the flow down a bit and run it on the 50 gallon so it can adjust to the bioload, and you should be set.

Also, air circulation is extremely important as well. If you did not have anything breaking the surface for those 24 hours, they could definitely suffocate in that amount of time.


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## lucky777*** (Dec 5, 2005)

Cranked the air and went a bought a few zebra danios yesterday morning and through them in so far they seem ok. I guess only time will tell.


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## lucky777*** (Dec 5, 2005)

Bought 2 whisper 100's and cranked them up for the last 4 days and the fish couldnt be happier. Guess it was just the air. Water test perfect and crystal clear since the air was added. Figured I would put two pumps on to avoid it from happening again. Also shortened the spray bar to 30 inches and getting much better surface agitation.


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

lucky777*** said:


> much better surface agitation.


Sounds like the right answer to me. :dancing:

As long as you are seeing nitrates in the water and no ammonia or nitrite, I would surely call the tank cycled. In the future I would keep a closer eye on a newly stocked tank, especially for the first few days. Do water tests regularly for a couple weeks until you are confident in the cycle, note the condition of the fish, etc.

Best of luck when you decide to move your fish over again!


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## lucky777*** (Dec 5, 2005)

Fish are moved back in now for a few says and doing great. Tank seems to have settled and looks like its finished cycling completely. Going to pick up some f1 CAlvus in Montreal tomorrow 

Do I have to worry about the bio load dropping out when I remove the smaller of the 2 filters? The smaller fluval is going back on the 50 gallon in another week or so.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The remaining bacteria in your tank will be reduced by the amount that is in the small filter, yes.

What percent of the current filtration does the small filter represent? What is the GPH of each filter?

If the number of fish remains the same and you remove less than 25% of the bacteria...you might be OK but I would test daily for a couple weeks to confirm.


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## lucky777*** (Dec 5, 2005)

DJRansome said:


> The remaining bacteria in your tank will be reduced by the amount that is in the small filter, yes.
> 
> What percent of the current filtration does the small filter represent? What is the GPH of each filter?
> 
> If the number of fish remains the same and you remove less than 25% of the bacteria...you might be OK but I would test daily for a couple weeks to confirm.


I's the Fluval 305 that was on my 50 gallon I believe its about 260 GPH. The remaining filter is a FX5 that according to Hagen is about 900 GPH. Fish are now at higher numbers, I think about 19 fish. No more will go in but some will be weeded out.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

So...you had about 1160 GPH but less than 19 fish. You are taking away 22% of the bacteria and increasing the fish. Might be OK but I would monitor closely.

And the 22% that you are taking away was supporting about what...4 fish? (25% of 15 fish just to guess). So in the new tank if you have 4 fish you should be good, but if you have more you should monitor closely.

Also I would have another established tank that is not being changed that can contribute bacteria if you run into trouble.


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## lucky777*** (Dec 5, 2005)

DJRansome said:


> So...you had about 1160 GPH but less than 19 fish. You are taking away 22% of the bacteria and increasing the fish. Might be OK but I would monitor closely.
> 
> And the 22% that you are taking away was supporting about what...4 fish? (25% of 15 fish just to guess). So in the new tank if you have 4 fish you should be good, but if you have more you should monitor closely.
> 
> Also I would have another established tank that is not being changed that can contribute bacteria if you run into trouble.


I won't be increasing the fish, they are already at 19 and no more will me added.

I understand that I will be removing some of the bacteria, but should the FX5 after 1 month not have enough bacteria within itself to support a tank of this size?

The fluval 305 will be sold with a complete 50 gallon setup ASAP (to make my wife happy) , but in the mean time it will remain running on the 150 Gallon until it's sold. Unfortunately the only other running tank is my 20 gallon quarantine and I'm afraid the little aqua-clear on that wouldn't help much 

I guess I'll just have to do it and monitor closely, thanx for your help.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The way the bacteria works is it grows to the exact right amount to support the fish in the tank. So if you had 16 last week and you have 19 this week with both filters...the bacteria are trying to grow to catch up to the 19 fish.

The bacteria does not grow to fill the filters...it grows to the amount of ammonia (etc.) given off by the fish in the tank to be food.

So...you assume it is spread across all the filters in the tank.

And you are removing 22% of the filtration, thus 22% of the bacteria.

It is POSSIBLE to double your fish and have the bacteria grow to catch up in time...but it's not a guarantee.


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## lucky777*** (Dec 5, 2005)

DJRansome said:


> The way the bacteria works is it grows to the exact right amount to support the fish in the tank. So if you had 16 last week and you have 19 this week with both filters...the bacteria are trying to grow to catch up to the 19 fish.
> 
> The bacteria does not grow to fill the filters...it grows to the amount of ammonia (etc.) given off by the fish in the tank to be food.
> 
> ...


Very good explanation. Thanks.


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