# Mixing Tropheus



## Vidar Alfei (Jul 29, 2008)

Hello,

I have one group with 30 Canary cheeks that is between 3 and 4 inches in a 530 liter aquarium.
I have also a group of 25 Kasakalawe (Mpulungu) that is about 2-2,5 inches.

I wonder if i can get both groups in the 530 liter without any problem?
Somebody that have experianse with this?

Do you medicate when you take groups together?


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

I think you will be fine mixing the two. 
Make sure you have ample amount of filtration/circulation to support the amount of fish you plan on adding and it would work out even better if that tank is a 6ft.


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

You are ALWAYs flirting with the risk of dirty hybrids when you mix two groups of tropheus...Regardless of the variant! Some are better than others to mix, but personally I am NOT convinced that there is two variants that won't cross. Some will say so, but IMO there is always a chance!


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

There's less chance with certain variants.

There are lots of things one believes in flashg but those things probably don't matter to another.

Like colony size for instance....I feel that minimum should be 30+ and anything less should not be considered a colony.....also feel tht with the small numbers that most decide to keep it fuels the problems once they start happening.

Honestly though.....you ever see anyone that has a decent colony size post about having bloat problems or aggression issues?


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

eklikewhoa said:


> There's less chance with certain variants.
> 
> There are lots of things one believes in flashg but those things probably don't matter to another.
> 
> ...


Never seen anyone with a decent sized colony post about bloat problems! Also most people who have a decent sized colony are probably not new to tropheus. On the other hand I have heard of people having bloat problems with large groups of tropheus where their "colonies" are mixed together in the same tank. From 50 trophs to 5 in 2 days

Anyways, I did not say it was wrong to mix variants just stating there is always a chance of hybridization! If you choose to do so after the knowledge has been given that is your choice!


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

Of course there is a risk but if you do your research you will find that there are some that are LESS likely to do so then others.

and as for colony size.....My first colony was 40 wild caughts. :wink:


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

eklikewhoa said:


> Of course there is a risk but if you do your research you will find that there are some that are LESS likely to do so then others.
> 
> and as for colony size.....My first colony was 40 wild caughts. :wink:


You were smarter than most. I tell people to get big groups for sure, but most tropheus newbies want to get some of those and some of these etc... It's almost like they are not ready to leave their malawi tanks if you know what I mean.

For the record I have mixed dubs with other variants to reduce aggression in the past!


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

If they crossbreed, throw the fry on the lawn and be done with it.


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

True enough! I guess if you are not worried about collecting and selling your fry mix them a be happy with what you have! On the other hand 55 adult tropheus might be to many for a 140g tank!

So MuCH pooh to clean up!


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

55 is a decent number if that 140g is a 6ft tank with adequate filtration.

If you have adequate filtration and a well thought out system you will not see much poop in the tank.

I have my 37 Ilangi's in a 125 and you don't see much poop inbetween water changes....plan to add 30 more and still doubt there will be much to look at as far as poop.


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

eklikewhoa said:


> I have my 37 Ilangi's in a 125 and you don't see much poop inbetween water changes....plan to add 30 more and still doubt there will be much to look at as far as poop.


How often do you do water changes? I used to have 27 adult moliros + 10-15 juvies in a 125g and the poop and scales would pile up under the rocks quicker than Mike Rowe can say "Pooh" :lol: 
You could not see a lot of it, but when you moved the rocks it was crazy how much was there!

I am defiantly not saying it is not doable though! You will just really have to keep on top of it!


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

100% 2x a week but I probably feed like 10x more then you too....I got through a 5lb tub in less than 3months.


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

eklikewhoa said:


> 100% 2x a week but I probably feed like 10x more then you too....I got through a 5lb tub in less than 3months.


Dang that is a lot of food man! Probably keeps them good a conditioned though along with the big water changes... I fed my old colony about 1tbs of dannachi a day usually in two feedings, but they always acted like I was starving them!! I also did a 50-75% water change a week and I thought that was a lot of work!


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## NorthShore (Feb 3, 2006)

eklikewhoa said:


> 55 is a decent number if that 140g is a 6ft tank with adequate filtration.
> 
> If you have adequate filtration and a well thought out system you will not see much poop in the tank.
> 
> I have my 37 Ilangi's in a 125 and you don't see much poop inbetween water changes....plan to add 30 more and still doubt there will be much to look at as far as poop.


Agreed.

As for medicating, I would only medicate if I saw problems develop.


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## geoff_tropheus (Feb 13, 2003)

I have never seen, read, or been told of any Duboisi hybrids with other NON-Duboisi variants. The only time someone tried to tell me otherwise, the proof was not there and even he said it was not valid.

I've mixed Duboisi with all kinds of Tropheus and never had a issue.

I have been keeping Katoto, Duboisi, and Rutunga together for over 8 years and never produced a hybrid of these three.

In my 180 gallon I keep a 12-Katoto, 25-Rutunga, and 30-Duboisi.

Been Keeping Ikola and Lupota together for 2 years and no hybrids. BUT..I am scared that one day this will happen. In this tank there is about 12 Lupota, and about 30 Ikola

My personal opinion is that Canary Cheeks and Mpulungu would not be a good mix because of the yellow.

I do think that as long as you keep a close eye and are prepared to destroy the hybrid fish, go ahead mix whatever you want, they're your fish. Just be honest about the fry if you sell them.

If the tank has atleast 6ft length, I wouldnt go more than 50, in 140 gallons.


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## ddaquaria (Jan 3, 2004)

Here are my 2Â¢ and I'll be happy to accept 3Â¢ back in change....

Don't do it. I've done that exact mix before. 1) it looked crappy since the canaries didn't like showing there color as much 2) the dominant moop would kick your butt no matter what sect you from 3) The canaries would never color up or breed until I moved them to their own tank. After a few weeks in their own tank, I got 2 or 3 fry out of them.

As for how many, my rule is 15 to 20 per 60 gallons.


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

Geoff,
How do you know you have not produced hybrids? Most the time you cannot tell until the fish are 2+ inches... Most people sell them at 1"! Personally I would NEVER buy fry from someone with a mixed tank again!!!! My buddy got some mpulungu from a guy and we did not figure out they were crossed with golden kazumbas until they were over 2" in size... Luckily he got his money back... BUT that guy said they would not cross and look where it got him!

Even if you say you saw them breed, I've seen tropheus breed and it is like a giant orgy!!! Way to easy for females to cheat on their man while you are not looking!


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

Something like GK and Moop would be something that would have popped as definite no for mixing.....again if research is doen there are certain variants that are less likely to cross breed.


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## geoff_tropheus (Feb 13, 2003)

Because all the people who have bought fish from me tell me so. The ones that I have kept tell me so.

I know what Duboisi fry looks like, I know what species black fry look like, and I know what Kasabae fry look like. Been seeing them forever.

Only a ******* rookie would mix Golden Kazumba and Mpulungu in the same aquarium, and then sell the fry. Both fish are from the same area, and of the same fry. and of the same flank color. Total stupidity.

I've not seen mixed orgies in my Tropheus.

And in the fry I have sold, I can tell if they are Hybrid.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

Geoff's been keeping Trophs since I was was skipping school!


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

You sound like you've got it under control then. I agree certain mixes are better than others, but not mixing is the safest... Sorry for being so "In Your Face" I'm just still a little pissed I was a fool with that whole pineyumba thing! I have been keeping tropheus for two years now so I am not a veteran yet by any means. 
The guy who mixed the pineapples and the kazumbas is supposed to be a tropheus veteran too.

Ya live ya learn!!!

Again sorry geoff for taking it out on you my friend! I'm just so touchy these days! :roll:


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## geoff_tropheus (Feb 13, 2003)

No worries, I would be mad too if that had happened to me. ITs all good..

Those feakin pineyumba's can get lumped in with the Chimkolas, Rutoptas, Chimba Point, Who knows what Duboisi, Red Phoenix, Oragne Kiriza's, and mixed bag Tropheus, its not the first time.

People go and buy some Tropheus then go and post what kind of fry is this? ....Well, whats in your tank? ....I got 2 of these, 4 of those, 6 of this, and 3 of that...what?? I cannot mix them..Well so and so said it was ok..

:roll:


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