# Fish swimming upside down



## ruperts (Mar 29, 2018)

I have a problem where some of my fish have been dying and before they do, they exhibit this behaviour of swimming upside down and swimming in circles.






My water pH is 7.8
Ammonia < 0.02 ppm
Temp 82.4F
Tank size is 3 ft
Feed is a flake
I have 6 other fish in there and haven't had a problem with bullying until the fish got sick (which is why it has patchy skin in the video).

I've lost all my lithobates, a red kadango and electric yellow the same way, and now this fish.
Going through the symptoms of bloat it doesn't seem to be that.

Anyone have ideas? Could it be a parasite? On a side note, each lithobate that died, its skin went dark before it started spinning around and doing the same thing this fish is doing.

Any help appreciated.


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## Cyphro (Mar 23, 2018)

Swim bladder, usually means infected with bacteria and needs antibiotics or will die.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Rupert, so sorry for your loss!

How long has this tank been set up? The presence of ammonia could be due to the tank not being fully cycled. Do you have the results for nitrite and nitrate also? Which brand and type test kit are you using?

I would lower the temperature closer to 76F or 78F, no reason to keep it warmer.

Could you post your full tank dimensions? I have a feeling that tank size and species may be contributing to some aggression among the fish which can increase stress and cause some illness.


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## Cyphro (Mar 23, 2018)

I watched the video. Looks like either columnaris or oocytes. How long has this been going on, exactly?

Your fish are probably going to die regardless to be honest, but your water temp is too high which can cause these issues, and you have virtually zero current in the tank which also makes them susceptible.

Change out all the water you can, reduce heat to something reasonable like 78, treat with malachite green and brackish levels of noniodized salt (regular salt, not aquarium/epsom salt). If they don't immediately die then they may recover but that fish has a huge amount of necrotic tissue so the chance he will live is basically zero.

For the future keep the temperature under 80, keep water clean, and make sure you have some current in the water. This stuff exists in small amounts in all water but if the water has no current then it attaches easily to the gills and you are out of luck.


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## ruperts (Mar 29, 2018)

First of all, thanks everyone for your replies.

Cyphro - what is oocytes?

I am not sure that the problem is columnaris as the fish exhibit a strange spinning and jumping type behaviour before any other symptoms start to manifest - similar to bloat only no large stomach or white stringy poo.

With the lithobates, I took them all out of the tank and put them in isolation with new water etc in case they infect my other fish. They died one by one over the course of 2 weeks. The strange thing is that the problem rarely affected more than one fish at a time, where as normally I would associate an epidemic as affecting all or most of the fish at once.


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## ruperts (Mar 29, 2018)

Deeda said:


> Rupert, so sorry for your loss!
> 
> How long has this tank been set up? The presence of ammonia could be due to the tank not being fully cycled. Do you have the results for nitrite and nitrate also? Which brand and type test kit are you using?
> 
> ...


Thanks Deeda - the tank has been setup for a while (year maybe) and I monitor the fish pretty closely and haven't found any aggressive behaviour more than the normal. I will look at somehow reducing the temp.


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## Cyphro (Mar 23, 2018)

oomycetes (spelled wrong before), it's a thing that looks like a flesh eating fuzz that kills your fish and is hard to get rid of once it sets in. That's basically what your fish looks like in the video.


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## ruperts (Mar 29, 2018)

Hi All,
I have added another video of the latest fish of mine to get this weird disease. 



Here you can see the fish is not lethargic but quite responsive. There are no lesions on the scales and is breathing normally.
Before I put this fish in the isolation tank, it was swimming right way up in the morning and by lunch was doing this.

Notice there is no big stomach - also no white stringy poo which would indicate bloat.

Anyone suggest where I could go to get some answers?


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## Cyphro (Mar 23, 2018)

I already told you the possibilities. The treatment is similar regardless of which it is. There's no point to ask advice (or anyone to answer) if you won't listen.

If you want to know for sure then take them to the vet, the only way you can know for certain is a trained person with a compounding microscope. It will be about 500 bucks but if it's a lot of fish then it may be worth it. Otherwise you will have to take a best guess and treat and see how it goes. If you don't treat they are definitely going to die - and are probably gonna die regardless at this point anyways.


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## ruperts (Mar 29, 2018)

Yes, I checked the possibilities that you mentioned and while some of the symptoms match others don't.
You are very quick to jump on someone that is only looking for answers to an ongoing problem, about them not listening. What you fail to realise is that you are not the only person that reads these forum messages and others may come along later and provide the perfect answer.
Telling me "I don't listen" when I provide further information to clarify symptoms indicates to me a form of online bullying and a dismissal of my issue out of hand.

Be sure that I will be complaining to the moderator of this type of behaviour.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Ruperts, do you have the test results for nitrite and nitrate?

Are the tanks in your video the 75G tank or is it a temporary tank?


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