# Apistogramma cacatuoides



## rnocera (Jan 4, 2009)

I'm assuming it's a 1:1 pair. This one is typical of everyone else in the tank-

















Some had longer tail fins, but this one had the best combination of color & fins. It was hard to choose between a couple of them, but I don't want to end up with multiple males fighting.










And there's what I'm assuming is a female. She was the only one out of the dozen or so to show fins like that, with the big rounded bit. But I haven't seen any females with tails quite this rounded. . . Any input there? Does it look like I have a pair, or two different fish? Also, does anyone else have any pictures of other females? I've only seen one female before, and it didn't quite look like this- it still had the forked tail, just not as pronounced as males. If I can get a better idea of what females look like, maybe I'll be able to find another one or two in the tank at work.

Sorry for the shoddy pics- I have a ton of tannins in my water. The fish love it, and it doesn't bother me, but pics come out HORRIBLE.

Thanks,
Ronnie Nocera


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## madzarembski (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Ronnie
Here is a female A Cacatoides "double red" in breeding colors.










I'm not an apisto expert but I think you have a male Agassizi and not a female Cacatoide. but I'm sure someone can make a better id than me.
I forgot - nice male Cacatoide
madzarembski


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Agree, second one is a male agassizi as far as I can tell.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

dwarfpike said:


> Agree, second one is a male agassizi as far as I can tell.


:thumb:

agreed...


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## rnocera (Jan 4, 2009)

Thanks for the quick responses. That's kind of disappointing. Also kind of amusing that they came in on the same shipment as one species.. I'll have to talk to my manager and see if I can't convince her to order another batch soon, and try for some females!

Thanks again!


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## madzarembski (Jul 3, 2008)

rnocera said:


> Thanks for the quick responses. That's kind of disappointing. Also kind of amusing that they came in on the same shipment as one species.. I'll have to talk to my manager and see if I can't convince her to order another batch soon, and try for some females!
> 
> Thanks again!


Depending on your source you may only get males. A. Cacatoides sex ratios are easy to control by water conditions.

madzarembski


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## rnocera (Jan 4, 2009)

I have a feeling that's how it's working here. But, we order from like 5 different wholesalers depending on what we're looking for, so maybe I'll be able to get my hands on a female. Heck, maybe I'll be able to get my hands on a couple females.

If I were to keep the agassazi, would they fight? Or interbreed? Or would it be best to trade the agassazi back in?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I'd keep the agassizii, get him a couple of females, and return the cacatuoides male. But that's just me.

That is one of the nicest looking male cacatuoides I have seen for a long time. Atleast it doesn't look like a thug fish.

What size tank are you planning on keeping him in? If it's largest enough, and depending on current tank mates, it would be worth trying to find atleast two females for him.


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## rnocera (Jan 4, 2009)

Currently they're only in a 20 gallon. I'm growing out a severum, two bichirs, and a gar in this tank, and am going to move them up to a 90 gallon as soon as they're a little bigger. When everyone else outgrows the tank they're in now, I'm going to either keep the apistogramma in the tank 20 gallon they're in now, or move them up to a 30 gallon. Either way, the tank will be heavily planted (I've already got spiral val, java moss, java fern, water sprite, and two types of anubias going), and full of tannins. I'm leaning toward putting them in the 30, and trying to find a couple dwarf Crenicichla to go with them.

The cacatuoides is a little bit of a bully, but he's really not bad at all. He'll chase my other fish around, but he doesn't even pretend to catch them if they stop swimming away. He and the agassazi are together about 90% of the time, and the cacatuoides is definitely the boss, but not by a whole lot.

Are agassazi more rare, or do you just not like cacatuoides?

Thanks!
Ronnie


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

rnocera said:


> ... or do you just not like cacatuoides?


 :thumb:


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## rnocera (Jan 4, 2009)

lol. Any particular reason? I had never even heard of Apistogramma before seeing these cacatuoides in the LFS I work in, but I really like them.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

rnocera said:


> lol. Any particular reason? I had never even heard of Apistogramma before seeing these cacatuoides in the LFS I work in, but I really like them.


I don't know about you, but some fish sometimes remind me of certain people or sterotypes. Cacatuoides usually remind of the caricature of a low brow thug usually seen in cartoons. Like I said in an earlier post, your Cacatuoides is one of the nicest I've seen in a long time. I'm so used to seeing locally bred ones, which are probably so inbred they all sould be royally flushed. 
I forgot to mention your male Agassizii is very good looking as well.

We don't see to many Apsitogramma species down here, and except for Cacatuoides, your going to have to pay $40 plus (plus, plus, if they're decent quality) for a pair more often than not. Trying to buy a trio is next to impossible, unless some one has walked in and just bought a male out of a tank. Most apistogramma are sold in pairs, except for Cacatuoides which are often seen in male heavy tanks.

We sometimes get some German bred Agassizii double red or red gold down here, but it's been atleast 18 months since I've seen some quality Agassizii. Lately it's been all Asian farm bred stock, very poor quality, and male heavy. Usually the German bred stock comes in between May and July. I plan on having a third tank set up by then for a trio of Agassizii and two pairs of L066 or L270 (there's only a price difference of $300 per juvenile pleco between the two species :roll: ).

As your looking to set up a 90 gallon and a 30 gallon tank, and also keep you 20 gallon tank, why don't you...Move all the big nasties* ASAP to the 90g, set up a trio of Agassizii in the 30g and do a pair of Cacatuoides in the 20g.

*Yaeh, we all know Sevs are big softies, not big nasties.


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## rnocera (Jan 4, 2009)

Wow. . . those prices are wild! Wholesale prices up here are less than $6 for these guys! Now, that's the price for cacatuoides, and the agassazi was the only of its kind in the tank, so I'm not sure if there's a price difference there, but wow.

As for setting up the 90, 30, and keeping the 20 . . . I don't think now's the right time for that for me. I've already got 40 gallons of axolotls who are going to require at least 60 gallons when larger, and I can't fit any more aquariums in the house! We're already pushing it with 36 snakes, a bird, 2 ferrets, and 2 cats.

Thanks for the input on everything. It's nice to get more opinions.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I'd look for female agassizi as well, but I'm with *DFF* in my like, or rather dislike, of cac's. I think the agassizi have much more beautiful colors and a much better body form. Cac's will probably still be my first apisto when I begin to work with that genus, but I can promise you I'd switch them out after spawning them to a prettier (IMO) apisto rather quickly.


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## madzarembski (Jul 3, 2008)

I may be in the minority around here, but I rather like Cacatoides. I think they are a good tank resident who are not shy and are pretty forgiving fish when it comes to their care. As far as how they look, for a "designer fish" they're ok. I've kept Panduro and Candini (sp)? and they were a nightmare to keep. I never saw them and I was always worried about the tank conditions. I never was able to get them to breed. Just my 2 cents.
madzarembski


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## rnocera (Jan 4, 2009)

I quite like my little guy. I hope he continues to do well for me.


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