# FINALLY! My apisto's are coming.



## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

My Apisto's are coming! My Apisto's are coming! 
FINALLY!!!

Ok so i have finally after 2 month found APISTOGRAMMA CACATUOIDES. 
They will be $14 each and i am just so HAPPY i NEEDED to create a thread on it. :lol:

The tank will have 2 Females 1 Male Apisto, 6 neon tetras, 6 ______ tetras I am not sure what type, then a Clown Pleco or some otocinclus catfish.

Which do u think is better the oto's or the pleco? I am going to breed the apito's.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

If it's a planted tank, go for the otocinclus. If it's primarily driftwood and leaves tank, DON'T buy the pleco. Mike Wise has a new mantra; A COMMUNITY TANK IS NOT A BREEDING TANK. A BREEDING TANK IS NOT A COMMUNITY TANK.

What size tank do you have, and how is it going to be set up?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

It's going to be planted. I am not trying to breed them but it would be cool to have them breed.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok so my stocking list is 6 neon tetra, 6 lamp eye tetra, 3 apisto's, and 2 otocinclus catfish. I have an AQUACLEAR 50 on my 20 gallon long.

So what are some opinions on my stocking list?
Am I overstocked?
Do all these fish go together?


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

Sounds good to me. Should be a nice setup.

....Bill


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

If it's only a 20 gallon long, I'd switch out the lamp eyes and just double the neons instead. Lamp eye tetras get larger and much taller, putting out more waste I think than you'll want to deal with.

Plus, I tend to be one of those people that thinks a school of one tetra species looks better and more natural than smaller groups of different kinds.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok thanks for the opinions so far. Anyone else have an opinion?


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## Tank Hoarder (Jun 20, 2011)

One of the tetras I fell in love with over the last year are rummynose tetras. My two favorite things about these fish are that they always stay in a close school. The second reason is that these fish are like canaries in the fact that they lose their rosy red tip if the water quality goes down. Personally I love the color and patterns they have, but some people consider them plain looking. To each their own I guess :lol:

Another good tetra would be lemon tetras. These might get just as big as the lampeyes but once they are established in a tank they can have some real good yellow/white/black coloring for a tetra.

Good luck with your tank and fish! I've been interested in keeping apistos so I'll try to follow the thread a bit. Post pics when your apistos come in!


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Tank Hoarder said:


> One of the tetras I fell in love with over the last year are rummynose tetras. My two favorite things about these fish are that they always stay in a close school. The second reason is that these fish are like canaries in the fact that they lose their rosy red tip if the water quality goes down. Personally I love the color and patterns they have, but some people consider them plain looking. To each their own I guess :lol:


I LIKEY LIKEY! That is 1 cool fish. I may have to change my stocking list know.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I agree with *dwarfpike* about going with one school of tetras. Maybe just look to do 9 instead of 12. I really like rummynose as well. I will through another species in to the mix, Green neon tetras. I like so much more compared to the normal neon tetra.

And with the otos, buy 3.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh, I love rummynose ... I just think they are too active for a 20 gallon long. I had a school of them in a 38 gallon (36" long) tank and they just looked crowded even in that sized tank.

With that 20 long, I'd stick with smaller tetras like neons, black neons, or glowlights.

Just my 2 cents.


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## ClearMud (Nov 6, 2010)

I think you should do 6 neon tetras and 6 glolight tetras they go good together. I have some in my community tank(none cichlid, but could go with SA but not big ones).


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok so I really like the glowlights and the rummynose.
As *dwarfpike* said, They are to active for that tank. Which is understandable. So here is my NEW stocking list, until someone/I find a cooler tetra. LOL! :lol:

3 Apisto's
6 Neon Tetras
6 Glowlight Tetras
3 Oto catfish








EVERYONE


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## nightowl1350 (Nov 26, 2005)

I'm thinking the oto's may go after wigglers or fry? Not sure as I've never had them.
Apisto C's are awesome looking, post pics if you can


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Otocinclus will not go near any eggs or fry. And if they did (will never happen, but just for the sake of "what if") the female apisto will beat the snot out of them.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

DeadFishFloating said:


> Otocinclus will not go near any eggs or fry. And if they did (will never happen, but just for the sake of "what if") the female apisto will beat the snot out of them.


I figured that. LOL!


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

What is the BEST food for apistogramma's? 
I heard that HIKARI is a good brand, but there are many type of cichlid food's made from HIKARI?
What should my feeding schedule be?
I am going to feed FRIEZE-DRIED bloodworm's and live BBS.

BBS - BABY BRINE SHRIMP


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I feed my dwarf cichlids Hikari small sinking pellets and small sinking wafers, I mix a packet of each in a container. They are part of the Hikari tropical fish diet range and not part of thier cichlid diet range. I also feed them TetraColor tropical granules and Biotech earthworm flakes.

I also feed them Hikari frozen brine shrimp once a week, live blackworm (I grow my own) once a week, and live mossie larvae a couple of times a week (again, I grow my own). Almost no one locally feeds dwarfs frozen bloodworm, as it's a belief that they are harmfull to dwarf cichlds.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

How do i grow my own blackworm's?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Buy some and grow them in an icecream dish. Have a layer of paper towels just covered in water and feed them a small amount of weetbix. They recquire cool/cold water, so are easy to grow in winter, but I can't kkep them alive in summer.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Where did u buy your wormy parents?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> Where did u buy your wormy parents?


From my LFS. But mate, I'm in Australia.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok so i will defiantly try to get/raise some of them.
So if f i had these three foods.
1. BABY BRINE SHRMP
2. BLACKWORMS
3. SPIRINULA

What would my feeding schedule be?

I was thinking of doing this schedule.

Sun. - BBS 
Mon. - Spurinula
Tue. - Blackworms
Wed. - BBS
Thur. - Spurinula
Fri. - Blackworms
Sat. - BBS (ETC.)

Is that good? 
What would you guys/girls feeding schedule be?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I'd look to have a prepared, pellet food as your staple and only feed frozen or live foods as a treat. I only feed live blackworms once a week, and each fish only gets two worms. I also only feed frozen brine shrimp and live mossie larvae once a week. One Hikari cube gets cut up into six pieces. I feed my fish twice a day, and only small feedings.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok so i got 2 oto's and 6 black neon tetras!!! TODAY!!! I am so happy.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok we are down to 5 Black neon's but THING'S HAPPEN!

What will get the apisto's into BREEDING MODE!!!

I would like to here everyone's experience with breeding apistogramma cacatuoides. 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1. What was the tank temp?
2. What were you feeding them?
3. How many gallon's was the tank?
4. What did they breed in?
ETC.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Good water quality and good foods.

It was drummed in to me, low PH and low TDS, and use natural products such as Indian Almond leaves and Canadian Sphagnum moss to acidify your water. If you can't get your water right, your fighting a losing battle. Many, many people just don't appreciate how delicate apistos are when it comes to thier water requirements.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok so I am trying to get Black worm's and Spirinula, I am getting the Brine Shrimp egg's tomorrow, and i have HIKARI "Micro Pellet's".

I know I can get all of these food's for a FACT, but the worm's may not go through.

So may someone PLEASE







GIVE ME A FEEDING SCHEDULE WITH THE FOOD I CAN GET and ANOTHER SCHEDULE WITH THE FOOD I CAN GET AND THE WORM'S?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Feed pellets 5 days a week, feed frozen food once a week and feed live food once a week. If you want to add feeding live BBS in to the rotation, I would recommend feed it in the morning and feed a small amount of dry food in the afternoon.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok so something like this?


Sunday - LIVE BBS in the morning and PELLET'S in the afternoon
Monday - SPURINULA
Tuesday - LIVE BBS
Wednesday - LET THEM REST
Thursday - LIVE BBS in the morning and PELLET'S in the afternoon
Friday - SPURINULA
Saturday - LIVE BBS

and if I can get Black Worm's feed them when I feed SPURINULA?

Is that a good schedule?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Don't over think it, and mix it up. Look, I have no idea what I'm going to feed my fish when I walk in to the fish room. As long as it's not the same thing as the day before I am happy. That's one reason why I have 3 different brands of pellet food (Hikari, Tetra & Sera), earthworm flakes, frozen brine shrimp, live blackworms occassionally, live mossie larvae occassionally.

Just feed small amounts and don't overfeed on live blackworms. I only feed live BBS to my young fry, but I do know people who have it as part of thier regular rotation.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Hey everyone thanks for the help so far. I am just curious if I am fully stocked or if I can add something else?

This is the official stock list
20 gallon long: 
6 Neon Tetra's
6 Black Neon Tetra's 
3 Apistogramma Cacatuoides 
3 Otocinclus Catfish

So If I am not fully stocked what do you guy's think I could add to make it even AWESOME???


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you're pretty much full there, although I would just do 10 blacks neons and get 6 otos, since i know they prefer to be in groups of 5-6 or more.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I got them! I got the apistogramma's!!! Male has beautiful color and even the female has a little orange tint to her fin's.


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## Bamboo (Jan 12, 2011)

Now add a juvie Goliath Tiger Fish .


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Bamboo said:


> Now add a juvie Goliath Tiger Fish .


Have you been watching to much RIVER MONSTER'S???

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Is this a good foo for my apisto's?









What about this?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

No idea, never used them. Are they freeze dried products?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

They are freeze dried. I am not having luck with anything live! 

The apisto's won't eat the Hikari "Micro Pellet's" and they "munch" on flakes! 
Brine shrimp won't hatch, ETC.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!11


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Maybe you didn't put enough salt in the water; you want a specific gravity of about 1.022. And before you try freeze dried, perhaps see if any place near you sells live foods? Also, I would try frozen bloodworms/brineshrimp before trying freeze dried. Just my 2 cents


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

There is 1 place that sells live adult brine shrimp. But that's it.

I think they can order live worms but I thought that the worms would be bad for them because parasites???


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> They are freeze dried. I am not having luck with anything live!
> 
> The apisto's won't eat the Hikari "Micro Pellet's" and they "munch" on flakes!
> Brine shrimp won't hatch, ETC.
> ...


Are you ding it right?

Here's a C-F article on how to, http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/d ... tchery.php

There are also plenty of good videos online on how to do it,


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I watched the video, read the article and I think I just have bad egg's. I am asking my LFS to get in some new egg's or even decap. egg's.

I got the HIKARI "Spirulina Brine Shrimp" and Omega One "Tubifex worm's".


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I think I might have egg's but need a final decision. I haven't looked at the tank in a few day's and I could find the pair, i saw the male in the cave and the female popped out and attacked my finger. She is yellow but not like the pic's I see on google. The male has not swam away from the cave and he's not very active???


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Probably =P
See if you can find any egg; don't disturb their spawning site tho! =P


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

BelieveInBlue said:


> Probably =P
> See if you can find any egg; don't disturb their spawning site tho! =P


Now that's just impossible!


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh it's hidden from the prying eye eh? Well regardless, it does sound like they're tending eggs, or are at least about to.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Just an observation, I don't think I have ever seen or heard of both a male and female apisto "pair" guard a spawning site.

Females always drive the male away once spawning is complete. Even during spawning it's rare for the male to enter the cave, usually the male will take up position outside the enterance and squirt his milt into the cave.

I would have concerns about a lethargic, stationary male, especially if it's sitting on the substrate or in a cave. Usually this is not a good sign, and I have lost every dwarf cichlid that has displayed such behaviour.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Last night the male was swimming and now he's back under a different crack in the rock cave's. I am worried


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Is he just hiding, or does he look unwell?

In a couple of my apisto tanks I have some floating tubes for harrased fish to seek refuge. They are made from black plastic drainage tubing. This tubing comes in different diameters, so you can make some to fit different fish.










At the moment my pencilfish in with my breeding A. baenschi are using them the most to escape a very protective female. But I have had my male A. agassizii and male Nannacara anomala seek refuge in them from aggressive, protective females.

I also have a moss "waterfall" in most of my tanks now. Either with java moss or subwassertang or both growing out from some rolled plastic mesh attached to a couple of suction caps.










New one growing out.


















It's another place where a harrased fish can hide out, and fry love feeding in amongst it as well, hunting micro organisms.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I plan on making a moss wall, and he is just hiding but I've never seen him like this. I am worried. The female is yellow and her black marking's are intense but the female isn't guarding anything.

My water temp. did rise and I have gotten it back to normal but it was only a few degrees higher?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I had it drilled in to me by some our very experienced hobbiests that water quality is particularly important when it comes to apistos. There is also a strong belief locally that if the water is not soft enough and/or has even a moderately high TDS count, then many soft water dwarf cichlids will develop many health problems and end up dieing. I had no end in problems trying to keep many dwarf cichlids healthy and alive in my normal tap water, but once I started using predominantly neutral rain water treated with Sphagnum moss and Indian Almond leaves all the health issues cleared up, and all my fish started breeding. Now my problems revolve around too many spawns and growing out so many fry.

As for water temperature, my fish survive our summers where we have a good four months of temperatures over 80f and in to the mid 80's quite often.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

So ro/di water would help? and nothing is wrong?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Mate, I can't tell you nothing is wrong as I have no idea what is actually going on with your fish. This isn't like identifying and treating white spot or something similar.

RO water can help to bring PH down, but you need to also use an acidifying agent such as peat, sphagnum moss, oak leaves, or even some types of woods such as mopani root wood. Basically anything that will leach tannins.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

DeadfishFloating,

You are the man, I am for sure copying a few of your ideas as I expand into dwarfs. I really wish you would do some type of write up/article on dwarf care.

Freak,

Personally, I disturbed two brooding females and both times it ended in disaster. Now I'm forcing myself to just let it ride, you will see the fry when they are free swimming in several days anyway. I'm glad your having so much fun with your fish :thumb: I hope your male is fine too. Are his fins torn/nipped at all? I can tell when my females have a brood because the male will have a bite or two out of his tail. He may be hiding because of mom.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

So you guy's are saying that there may be egg's? The male look's fine and his intense color's are still there. I though that the female guard's the egg's? She's just swimming around.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I think what we are trying to figure out with the male is why is he being lethargic? Is he being coaxed into hiding by the female? or is he having some health issues?

There is always the possibility of eggs. If the female is staying in her cave the majority of the time then she may be guarding eggs. The male does not really act any different when there is eggs, besides staying out of the females way.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

There's a small dead amazon sword in my tank and that's where the female is most of the time. Unless I go to the tank then she chases my head. :lol: She's pecking at the leaves and then it seem's she is chewing. What is this?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

ahud said:


> DeadFishFloating,
> 
> You are the man, I am for sure copying a few of your ideas as I expand into dwarfs. I really wish you would do some type of write up/article on dwarf care.


LOL, thanks ahud. As much as I would like to claim credit for much of the information and ideas I share, it's all picked up and copied from other hobbiests. I am lucky in that there are quite a few very experienced hobbiests who have specialised in apistogramma, dwarf cichlids and soft water fish that all shop at the same LFS as me, and the LFS also specialises in apistos, dwarves cichlids, wild bettas etc.

There are many great articles on the web already, some here in the C-F library, and on sites such as Tom and Martins site and dwarf cichlid dot com.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I was searching around and it seem's to be matted fin's. Which is caused by fin rot and fungus! What med's can I use that is safe for plant's and invert's? I am dosing MelaFix ATM.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Hey, I dosed epsom salt 2 day's ago, and dosed MelaFix yesterday. He is not hiding anymore, but not swimming high up in the tank. He is moving around so sign's that he is doing better!!!


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## babarian16 (Apr 27, 2011)

Good i hope he keeps getting better. (can you post a pic  )


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Next time I see him out I will try. He has been out alot today but now seeing him fully, he look's starved and has fungus so so bad!


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## ivanmike (Jun 15, 2003)

DeadFishFloating said:


> Otocinclus will not go near any eggs or fry. And if they did (will never happen, but just for the sake of "what if") the female apisto will beat the snot out of them.


plecos OTOH, (which don't belong in a 20L for very long) will eat all the eggs and fry at night. They are tanks, so the apistos may not be able to do much.

I also have a big preference for black neons, and give a big +1 for one species of tetra.


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