# Red devil problem, please help



## Mikael Cherry (Nov 20, 2009)

I currently have 2 red devils in a 3ft tank, one is about 5" and I believe a male and the other is about 3" and I believe to be a female.

When I purchased them they were both about the same size. Since the male has became the dominant one in the tank it has become rather difficult as he constantly keeps the smaller one hidden and I can barely get her to eat, I would like to keep both as I want to try my hand at breeding.

What should I do.

Thanks,


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

I would pick a different species to breed. Red Devils are notoriously hard on their mates/tankmates.

Tank is also too small for even one red devil.

....Bill


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

The safest way to breed red devils is a partial divider. Assuming the tank is glass, silicone a clear glass divider into the tank, leaving about an inch short at the bottom so there is an open slot there. Put a flat rock by the slot on the female's side. Set up your filtration so it draws from the female's side and returns to the male's side of the tank. This will create a flow from the male's side through the slot toward the female's rock.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Yes, but NOT in a 3ft tank. You should have at least a 5ft tank for a pair of midas. A 75gal tank would be the minimum size for a male by itself, or a 55gal for a female by itself. The tank you have them in is much too small.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

SinisterKisses said:


> Yes, but NOT in a 3ft tank. You should have at least a 5ft tank for a pair of midas. A 75gal tank would be the minimum size for a male by itself, or a 55gal for a female by itself. The tank you have them in is much too small.


 For breeding them, probably so, but frankly my dear Sinisterkisses, 120's which are only four feet by two by two work fine even for nastier relatives like the red terror, _Amphilophus festae_, and eventually that partial divider system has to go in once the male starts eating chunks of flesh off his mate. At that point, some think a tank as small as possible may be the best choice. Since the percentage of fertile eggs through a partial divider is low, maybe less water would increase the number of good eggs. Although IMO there are sooo many eggs, I would not care about that theory even if it were correct.

Right now we have a 5" and a 3" fish. They don't need a five foot tank or a 120. Just a divided tank where they can see and smell each other, but not touch each other. And it's better to breed them young and still half, three quarters grown, since as they get full size no tank will be big enough for two of them. Now a tank of a few thousand gallons is another story and several pairs and several sizes of fry will share the tank with other fish tough or fast enough to earn a place in the tank. Two is a difficult number since the male who expects to fed off the competion and protect his mate has nothing useful to do.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

I never plan or suggest a tank size based on juvenile fish. I plan for adult fish, since they're always going to grow into adults. So a pair of 9-13" fish, yes, IMO, need nothing less than a 5ft tank. And yes, you can keep a pair as adult if they're well-matched.


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## Mikael Cherry (Nov 20, 2009)

I am aware that my tank is too small, I plan on moving them into a bigger tank once I can find a place to set it up. I was mainly concerned about the male killing the female before I can put them into a larger tank, The tank I have planned to put them in is, 5ft long by 2ft high by 2ft wide. would this still be too small??

So basically what I should do is divide the tank they are in now, then when I move them see how it goes or divide that also?

Even if I can not get them to breed it would be still nice to keep them both alive as they are quite fun fish to have in my house.


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## Blademan (Sep 20, 2008)

How do you know they are male and female? Just curious.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

SinisterKisses said:


> I never plan or suggest a tank size based on juvenile fish. I plan for adult fish, since they're always going to grow into adults. So a pair of 9-13" fish, yes, IMO, need nothing less than a 5ft tank. And yes, you can keep a pair as adult if they're well-matched.


 I think you probably make some exceptions to that "never" and "always" in the real world. Otherwise if you had 1500 festae fry, you'd need a 75,000 gallon tank to raise them up. However expecting the fish to grow to their max and being prepared with the tank they will need is not at all bad. Better to have more tank space left at the end of the fish than fish left at the end of the tank space.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Obviously, if one is breeding fish and intending to sell the fish LONG before they are adult size, then you can use a growout tank of appropriate size. This isn't the case here, since the question is about two juvenile fish the OP intends to breed.

If I were discussing a growout tank for the fry that could result, my suggestion on a suitable tank size would of course be different.


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## jagz (Nov 1, 2009)

The minimum size tank I would use for red devils is 75 gallons. Use some eggcrate to divide the tank they're in now until you can move them into a larger aquarium. Red Devils are hard to pair off. The male can become extremely vicious!!


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## Mikael Cherry (Nov 20, 2009)

I've had a friend of mine I.D them as male and female.

I really think that I will be unsuccessful with breeding the 2 let alone the 2 surviving, as it is the male is seriously aggressive and will attack anything that moves, which makes for a fun and interesting fish to have but that's about it.


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

The answer to your problem has already been provided. Short term fix---add a divider. Long term fix---much larger tank with a divider ready to install if needed.


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