# new here with some questions



## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

I have had fish tanks for some time now but decided to do it right with my last tank. I did tons of research and decided on a 75 gallon malawi tank. I did a fishless cycle. I ran my two filters in other tanks for 2 months, did filter squeezes and used ammonia. I made lists of the fish I wanted and searched for info on them. Then I went shopping without my lists. I had two lists. I remembered everything that was on them, but forgot which was on which list. I ended up getting fish that should no be in the same tank. So far (4 months) no aggression troubles. The fish are breeding like crazy. I have 2 red zebra fry in the tank. They are now big enough to swim around looking for food without getting eaten. I have 2 albino socolofi holding. The third female has been doing the circle dance with the male for about 2 weeks with no eggs. She then started sitting on the bottom all the time. She would swim if I came up to the tank but always went back to that spot. She was still eating, but very little. She died yesterday. I am now worried about bloat. Is this for sure what this is? Could she possibly have had eggs inside her that she couldn't release? I tested water and I did have a nitrite spike .25-.50 Ammonia was zero and nitrate was 10. I had just done a 30% water change so I found this odd. After another water change nitrites are ok. I thought everything was fine because I also have two yellow labs holding and two saulosi's holding. I have a cycled 10 gallon that I intended on using for holding fish but have not come close to being able to catch them when they are holding. I just don't know what to do.

I know I will probably have problems in the future with my stock, but so far all is well. There is no aggression at all.

I have 1 male and 3 females of all of the following (minus one female albino)

red zebra
yellow lab
kennyi
saulosi
albino socolofi
golden cichlid
demasoni pombo rocks

I read that I should not have the demosoni with the saulosi or the kennyi, but right now all three of them swim together at all times.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

First, that "circle dance" isn't limited to male and female, so what you witnessed could have been a stand off between two males.

If you are unable to vent these fish to sex them, it can be really difficult to know what sex you have. How did you determine that? (I can't vent...The more I look the more they all look the same!)

The nitrite spike may be what killed the socolofi. I wouldn't start adding bloat meds to a relatively new tank. Just keep an eye on things, watch for reclusiveness, white stringy feces, or any other signs of illness. Usually the first sign you see with bloat is refusal or spitting food.

Now, I'm assuming all of these fish are pretty mature if they are already breeding, so aggression could be your problem, as well. A stressed tank is often a problem tank, so you might need to take a look at your stocking for long term success.

IMO, that's too many species for a 75G tank, especially if you plan to breed or distribute fry from it. (And there will be a ton of fry, believe me! Once mature, they can produce 20-60 fry at a time...)

Are the "golden cichlids" Melanochromis auratus? If so, both those and the kenyi are potential problem areas as far as aggression goes. Many times, they just aren't worth the trouble.

The Yellow labs and red zebras can crossbreed.

Do you only have 4 of the demasoni? They should never be kept in that size group...They should always be kept as singles or at least 10. 4 will eventually become 1.

And, you might have crossbreeding issues between the saulosi and demasoni...

What's working for you now won't work once they all start to sexually mature, and the stress can show up in the tank in really strange ways that you might not recognize immediately.

I would take it back to 5 species max that are likely to get along long term, and get rid of the rest. If you want to breed and distribute fry, this will also affect your stocking.

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

I agree with everything you said and yes, the golden cichlids are Melanochromis auratus. I know I really messed up with my tank. If I got another tank, would there be a way to split them between the two without getting rid of anyone? So far, I have had zero aggression and the ones that I expected to fight act like best friends. If I move some of my other tanks around, I could free up a 30 gallon and move the demasoni, but if I need to add more of them, would the 30 be ok? I have been planning on getting another large tank, just don't know where I would put it just yet.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the 30G? If it's 36" long then it can house the Demasoni, but you still need at least 12 of them.

I think both Kenyi and Auratus are best in a 75G tank minimum.


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

yes, my 30 gallon is 36 inches. I could put that many demasonis in it? I just need to move the other fish and change the substrate. All that is in that tank is a bristle nose, 5 bronze corys and 7 neon tetras. I have been planning on moving the BN to the 75 gallon anyway. I have a mature 10 gallon I could put the neons in. Not sure what to do with the corys. My daughter can get me great deals on full tank set ups, so I could get another 75 gallon. I would have to wait until she moves out in August and turn her room into a fish room lol It would be easier to send the 30 gallon (it is in her room) to her new apartment and replace it with another 75 gallon. I just wouldn't have a clue as to how to divide the fish between the two tanks.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

JessiLou said:


> I just wouldn't have a clue as to how to divide the fish between the two tanks.


If that is what you plan to do (go with two 75G) just let us know and we'll help you out!

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> JessiLou said:
> 
> 
> > I just wouldn't have a clue as to how to divide the fish between the two tanks.
> ...


That really would be the easiest thing to do. The only problem with it is that it cannot be done until mid August. My daughter goes back to college in August and she signed a two year lease on an apartment. The only space to put another 75 gallon would be in her room once she moves out. I told her a few weeks ago I wanted to turn her room into a fish room so I could have a frontosa tank, she didn't look to happy with me taking over her room lol The tank stand in her room right now will hold a 75 gallon tank. If she took her 30 gallon with her, all problems solved. I know I should never have bought the demasoni. I didn't know that when I bought them though. They really are beautiful. Ok, two questions. If I didn't get another tank, what would have to go from my current tank? If I do get another tank, what would be the best way to divide the fish I have?

I am afraid I have MTS. I love my malawi's but............I want HUGE cichlids too lol If I sold all my livingroom furnature, I could have a lot more tanks lol


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

For one tank, I'd probably do saulosi, socolofi and the zebras. But those are my favorites...which are YOUR favorites?


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

I love all of them but my favorites are the red zebras, the demasoni and the yellow labs. My male red zebra is the biggest fish in my tank and he makes me laugh. He tries to be so tough but no one is afraid of him. The golden cichlids are my least favorite in the tank. They do not interact with me or any of the other fish and look very mean. If I had to pick two to get rid of, it would be the goldens and the albinos. That really wouldn't take care of my problem with the saulosi, kenyi and demasoni issue.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Build one tank around Demasoni/labs for your blue/yellow and for the other, start with the zebras and choose between Saulosi and Kenyi as your blue/yellow. You only need a 75G tank if you keep the Auratus or the Kenyi. Maybe you can get away with a 55G for your second tank.


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

for now, could I move the demasoni and labs to the 30 (and add some more demasoni) and take the goldens back to the lfs? That would leave me in the 75 gallon:

3 albino socolofi
4 Kenyi
4 red zebra + 2 fry (maybe only one, have not seen the other in two days.

edit: I forgot I have 4 saulosi in the 75 gallon


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd say even with the Kenyi and Saulosi in the same 75G tank it would be an improvement and might hold you for a month or two until you get the other big tank.

Keep testing the nitrites every day until it's zero for a week, and then weekly before every water change.


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

quick update and a few questions.

The nitrites are back to zero now. The male albino has stopped making big circles in my substrate and he looks bored. Both of the females in the tank are holding. He was making a circle and trying to get the other albino's attention. When it didn't work he would make another circle and try again. That albino died, so now he has nothing to do. The zebra babies are now brave enough to swim around together in the open tank and don't even try to hide from the bigger cichids. Everyone looks happy and healthy. Aggression is still at zero.

Now the questions. My rockwork did the normal brown in the beginning then green. It is now greenish black and fuzzy. Is this bad? The fish seem to like it, but is is ugly. I don't think it is from too much lighting. I turn my lights on at 5:30 pm and off at 10:30 pm. I do have an internal air pump that has a blue light on it that runs 24/7 but the light is not very bright unless the room is very dark.

After reading all the new posts in the forum ( I read them in every catagory because I am nosy lol) I think I am not feeding my cichlids the right food. I keep seeing posts about not feeding them flakes that are mostly fish meal. I feed mine TetraCiclid flakes (first ingredient is fish meal), Top Fin cichlid pellets (second ingredient is fish meal), algae wafers and baby zucchini. Not all at the same time of course. They don't really like the pellets. What should I be feeding them? If my albino died of bloat, could this have been the reason?

edit: I just asked my daughter to bring a catalog home from work so I can see what fish food I could get from them. I hope they can get whatever is suggested here.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

For food many here (me included) recommend New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula a.k.a. NLS. I can't get it locally, but I wait for internet free shipping sales and buy a 6 month supply along with any filter cartridges or pads I need. They will eventually adjust to the pellets and pellets are cleaner...less algae.

For algae, (1) feed less, (2) be religious with your 50% weekly water changes. This will keep the nitrates and phosphates down so there are no nutrients for the algae? Any sunlight hitting your tank, even indirectly or for part of the day? Find a way to shade it. For what's left, get a bristlenose pleco. This fish will keep what's left under control (mine is never completely gone).

Keep checking the nitrites for a while. Since you don't know what caused it, you want to watch for it to happen again.


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

I guess I will also have to find it online, because I cannot find NLS anywhere around here.

I have a BN in my 30 gallon. He has been there since he was a baby. He is very very shy. Would moving him stress him? I could just get another one if that would be easier. The tank gets very little sun light. I have dark curtains on the windows that are closed at all times and the tank has a dark back ground. I don't have an algae problem on the tank or even the substrate. It is just on the rocks. It used to be pretty.

After reading posts, I learned that auratus males change colors so I looked up the profile. All 4 of mine are still very yellow. They are close to 3 inches in size. All the other fish in my tank have their adult colors. All of my fish were added at once following a fishless cycle so they are all about the same size except for the demasoni. Does this mean my auratus are all female? If they are, should I still remove them from my tank?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Female auratus can be brutally aggressive as well, but I never had any major problems with any of mine. It was always the males that were terrorist...

Of course, you wouldn't want to save any fry from any of them.

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

I gave up trying to save fry. I have a cycled tank that I had planned to move a female red zebra to when she was holding. I tried for hours and hours each day to catch her and finally gave up. She spit them in the tank and two survived. I tried again when the albinos were holding, no luck. I have a lot of rocks and really didn't want to tear the tank apart. I am just going to let nature take it's course and if the tank gets over stocked, I will take them to my lfs. I now have a cycled 10 gallon with no one in it. I cycled with ammonia, but I feed it with food now to keep it cycled while I figure out what to do with it. It is small, so I really don't have any idea. Was thinking QT but I have one of those already. When I was trying to catch the holding zebra, I couldn't keep the other fish out of the nets. I tried leaving nets in the tank so they would get used to them and they had parties in them. It would have been easier to remove all the other fish and leave her in the big tank lol


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I wouldn't remove any fry from the tank to take to the LFS.

If you don't have males and females of all species and you have species that are prone to crossbreed, you would only be distributing hybrids into the hobby.

Pick up a male betta to keep the 10G cycled. You can just move him back to a betta bowl when you need the tank for cichlids.

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

other than the labs and zebras, what else could cross breed? I plan to move the labs and demasoni's to a new tank. I have one male and three female of all except for the one albino that died and the auratus. I was never able to find a male picture of them until today. I may still take them back in exchange for more demasoni though. I wanted to keep the 1/3 ratio of male/female if possible when I set up the tank. I asked so many questions and read all the links that were provided to me in another forum. They really had me thinking I was doing things right. It is really depressing to find out that I really did make some big mistakes after all.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Any female or male mouthbrooder without the opposite sex of their species will crossbreed.

And, if you do have males and females of one species and another lone male of a different species is more dominant, they may interfere with your breeding group.

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

ok so the auratus will go to lfs. Once I move the labs and demasoni, I will have one male and 3 females of all the rest except for the albino socolofi. I have one male and two female of them. Getting another female will be hit or miss. I just got lucky the first time. When I take back the auratus (4), move the demasoni (4) and the labs (4), plus I am down 1 albino, should I add more of each of the fish left in the 75 gallon? I will be left with 15 fish in there.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

This will leave you with kenyi, saulosi and albino socolofi in the 75G, right?

You could add more (2-3) of each group, but keep in mind that you may have to remove extra males down the line somewhere.

If you make the saulosi group large enough (to give you more yellow in the tank) you can probably get away with three males. Don't try two males, it doesn't seem to work when all the aggression from the dominant male is focused on one male.

I'd be really careful with increasing the group size of the kenyi. Make sure you pick up only females.

I've had mixed results with the albino socolofi. I've had males that wouldn't tolerate another male within a 100 yard radius, and males that didn't seem to care...I might just leave that group alone if I were you, since they will be your hardest to sex.

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

I also have 4 red zebras and two zebra fry in there. Thanks for all the advice. At least I have a plan now. I know I will have more questions about the other tank when the time comes. I think I am getting another 75 gallon.

My cichlids are not small anymore. Wouldn't I have to add new ones that are old enough to sex if I added more? Sort of worried about adding small ones because mine are close to full size.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If you can find adults, that's what I'd add. Make sure to add more than one at a time, though, so the aggression towards the newcomers is dispersed a bit.

They (the established fish) will accept younger ones more readily. They don't pose a threat, and as long as they won't fit in the mouth of your largest fish, they'll be fine.

Kim


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## Nutty4Mbunas (Mar 27, 2008)

I feel for you...I did the same thing research, research knew what species I wanted to get to keep the aggresion down. Wanted to limit myself to smaller/dwarf with not a lot of aggresion. I left my list home too, then I was just taken aback by the colors and beauty of the Mbunas!! :drooling: 
55 gal with: 2 johanni, 1 kenyii,, 2 P. acei, 1 yello lab, 1 red, 1 C. afra? 1 red top hybrid, 3 red tops, 2 Ma/3 mainganos...I think I got 13!!! :-? 
as for venting them...they were juvies and too young too tell. THey are on steroids I think they grown by the day and the little ones I bought seem to have grown!
Good luck
barb


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

same with me and the colors. I saw the demasoni and they were so beautiful. They were not actually on my list. The ones on my list were the same color so I said, Oh, how pretty, I will take 4 of those lol The ones on my list were zebra chilumbas or something like that. I was told they would be ok with my list. I actually thought the demasoni would be better because they didn't get as big lol Just when I want to pull my hair out for making mistakes, I got to see my little red zebras get all brave and come to the top for food with the other fish. It was their first time. I got all nervous like it was one of my kids doing something dangerous lol None of the fish paid any attention to them, so I guess it is ok. I have an albino socolofi who should be spitting any time now so I will have something else to worry about.


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

I lost another fish today. It was the smallest of my female kenyi. Yesterday it was acting funny. It was vertical in the tank behind the heater. It didn't seem to be breathing heavy or anything. When I got close to the tank, it didn't come to the glass like it normally does. I removed her and put in my 10 gallon and she immediately started swimming around and even ate when I put a small amount of food in. This morning she was dead. I looked at her very closely and found nothing visably wrong with her. I got her at the same time as all my other fish, but she was about half the size of them. I tested both tanks:

75 gallon:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
PH between 7.4 and 7.8 It has been at 8 consitantly until today's test.

10 gallon:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Ph 7.8

Both tanks are 80 degrees. When I lost the socolofi, I had a nitrite spike, this time my Ph has dropped. I don't know how worried I should be or what I should be doing to stop this. Do I need to do something to get the Ph back up? This fish was not growing like the others, so I guess it could have not been well when I got it. The Ph in my 30 gallon has not changed. It is still at 7. I thought maybe the tap water had changed.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

That's not a huge drop in the ph, I wouldn't worry about it unless it starts to go below 7.

It's better to have a slightly low ph than to have an erratic ph jumping all over the place due to additives.

Watch your main tank closely. Make sure all fish are eating at feeding time, and none are being reclusive. Also, keep an eye out for white stringy feces from any of them.

It's so hard to judge in new tanks when you have problems...You don't want to start throwing meds in the tank if you don't have to.

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

I didn't really think the PH was the problem. These fish have been in the tank since February. The nitrite spike after the first death was the first time I had a change in any of my water tests. I do a weekly 30% water change and test the water at least once between changes. I have been watching them very closely since the albino died. I have not seen any of them not eat. (except for the holding females). None of them are breathing faster than usual and I have seen no white stringy poop. I do have a few that have been spending a lot of time hiding, but they come right out as soon as I put food in the tank and they do eat. I did notice the first aggression in the tank last night. It was the male albino and one of the holding females. I am not sure if she is still holding or not. They acted like they were spawing, but about every 10th turn they would stop to lock lips then went back to what looked like spawning. Today they are back to normal.

OK, I stopped typing and watched the fish for a long time. One of the albinos is sitting on a rock breathing very heavy. (I think) From the sides and underneath her mouth she looks like she is still holding, but she is opening her mouth very wide and I see nothing in there. She really looks like she is tumbling except that her mouth is wide open. I put some food in and they all ate except for her but now I am paraniod and watching all of them breath. I can no longer tell what is normal and what isn't.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The lip locking sounds more like the behaviour of two fish of the same sex rather than male/female behaviour.

Any chance of posting a pic?

I didn't mean to make you paranoid. It's just that anytime you're losing fish, there's cause for concern. With these guys, if we can rule out aggression, we may be dealing with health issues.

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

I can't get a picture right now because my daughter has the only camera that is nice enough to get a decent picture and she is not home. I am very worried about the one albino. Her mouth is wide open and she really looks like she is tumbling babies or eggs or whatever, but I don't see any. Another albino is really fat. If it were a guppy, I would say she was pregnant. I have four fish that are hiding most of the time. I never noticed this before but I am paying way more attention right now. I dropped in a small amount of pellets and about half of them are still in the tank an hour later. This really doesn't mean much because my cichlids don't really like them. I scooped them out. I put a small amount of flake in and it was all eaten but not by the 4 that are hiding. This is my hiding crew: two albinos, one yellow lab and one red zebra. I am almost positive the lab is holding, not sure about the zebra. The male zebra has recently dug a large circle so the zebra could just be hiding to stay out of the circle lol. I know I am being totally paraniod, but I am afaid to wake up to more dead fish tomorrow too. I bet if I had spent this much time staring at them before, I would have seen a lot of stuff to make me paranoid then too. They just don't seem to be happily swimming around anymore except for my saulosi and the rest of my zebras. The 7 of them are very active and swimming around together.

Edit: just wanted to add that there is still zero aggression in the tank so I really don't think that is the problem.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

JessiLou, I think you may have bloat in the tank.

I would go ahead an initiate one of the treatments in the links below my signature.

If you can remove the ones who aren't eating to a seperate tank and treat the water column, you could just feed the ones who are eating a medicated antiparasitic food. (Jungle makes one, you just need to soak it in tank water for 20-30 minutes before offering it to the fish...)

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

I just fed them this morning and more of them are spitting the food back out. I think I should treat the whole tank at this point. The only ones I know that ate for sure are the babies and the saulosi. Would treating the tank kill the babies? I have two of them in there and the largest is probably not even a half inch. They are doing great though and come out to eat with all the other fish and no one bothers them. I would have to remove all my rockwork to get them out of the tank, same for the ones who I know are not eating. At this point, there are too many not eating to put in my 10 gallon or my 4 gallon QT.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

For some strange reason, younger fish seem to be immune to alot of illnesses. How small are they?

Some of the meds (read "Clout") seem to be pretty harsh. I can't guarantee it won't hurt them, but if they are an inch or so, I think they'll be fine.

One they stop eating, it can be very difficult to turn things around...I don't want to disillusion you or discourage you, I just want to warn you. It's important to treat fully for the fish who aren't advanced to the final stages of the illness.

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

The biggest of the babies is not even a half inch. I just read the link for the clout treatment. I read the list of causes for this and I am concerned. My temp is stable, my water quality is good, there is no aggression, I have not added any new fish. They all went in at same time almost 5 months ago. There is no aggression, they don't even bother the tiny babies. The only thing left is food. I feed them TetraCichlid cichlid flakes, Top Fin small cichlid pellets, algae wafers and once in awhile I give them baby zucchini which they love. I have checked all the lfs and read online reviews and these are rated best out of what is available here. If I don't feed the tank for 6 days, will the babies still be ok? I thought they needed to eat often.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Fry do need to eat more often. It's just a risk you're going to have to take at this point.

I don't really care for the foods you are using, I prefer using one of the higher quality foods such as Dainichi, Hikari or NLS, and have had good results by just using _one_ quality food rather than a pinch of this and a pinch of that.

Without reading back through the post, have you researched the dietary needs of the species you are keeping?

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

Yes I did research and was given advice on a different forum. That is why I am here now lol. I read the links that were provided to me on that forum and still ended up in a mess. Here, I am getting real answers and I thank you for that. Which of the meds do you suggest I use? I just did an online search of my local stores and didn't see either of the two listed in your signature but that doesn't really mean they don't have them. The only food you have listed that I have seen is the Hikari and I have only seen that at Petsmart. I will get some today. I did see treatments for parasites and treated food, but not the ones you listed.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If you can't find Clout or metronidazole, look for Jungle brand Parasite Clear. (It might be easier on your babies, as well...)

You'll need to do a full 3 treatments with it, spaced 48 hours apart, with a 25% water change prior to the 2nd and 3rd treatments. If they aren't all eating when you finish this round, go another round. It's not uncommon for one round of treatment NOT to cure bloat.

Also, make sure you give the substrate a good vacuuming with those water changes, even if it leads to removing more than 25% of the water. Bloat is believed to be spread by healthy fish mouthing the feces of infected fish.

Kim


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## Josh_Praetor (May 30, 2006)

cichlidaholic said:


> For some strange reason, younger fish seem to be immune to alot of illnesses.


It's true, let someone else watch my fish while I was away and for some reason he turned my heaters off. Came home and every fish had 'White Spot' 90% of the fish in my tank died but all the young ones (about 1-2 months old) survived along with my prized Pleco.

heartbreaking but at least a few survived!


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

A few months ago, I met an older man at a fish store. He had just started working there. He told me that he had been raising african cichlids for 40 years. We talked for over an hour about my tanks and his tanks. I called the store and asked to speak to him. I told him of the issues with my tank and he asked me a ton of questions. Again we talked for about an hour. He said before I did anything drastic, he would like me to add aquarium salt and epsom salts to my tank and to raise the temp. This evening, all of my fish are swimming around. They are all pooping a lot but it is not white. The seem back to normal. I did a 25 gallon water change last night. Today I noticed two things. A holding demasoni and after looking at a ton of pictures, I think one of my Melanochromis auratus is actually male. He looked normal yesterday but today he looks dirty. His white is fading and he looks all sooty under his mouth and pretty much everywhere that was bright yellow yesterday. He is chasing all three of the other Melanochromis auratus non stop. So far nothing other than chasing. I was planning on taking them to the lfs but wont do that if there is something wrong in my tank. The one albino that was the worst, is still looking like she is holding, but I know she isn't. She seems to be the only one that isn't back to 100%. Should I continue the salts and water changes or should I treat with something else? Am I going to have serious issues now that I have a demasoni holding? Things are looking up, I just need to know what my next step is.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Well, if the one fish has bloat and has progressed to the stage that it isn't eating and is being reclusive, the salts aren't going to help. Epsom salt is a good preventative for fish who aren't already "infected", but it won't do a thing for those who are.

It's your call. Again, there are two bloat treatments listed below my signature, and I've also given you info on a third option in my last post.

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

I was able to find the Jungle medicine. One lfs said they could order the others for me but it would take too long. For some reason, freshwater fish are not real popular in this area. Other than the chains, we only have 2 fresh fish stores and they are quite limited. We do have quite a few reef shops and most of my fish have been ordered through them. I have not found any breeders, but maybe I just don't know how to look. We just finished our last game of the tournament so the rest of the day will be devoted to tanks. Crossing fingers all goes well and thanks for all the help.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Maybe you can remove the albino and treat it with the Jungle med. in a different tank. If it's not well, it might not be so hard to catch.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

JessiLou, the problem with bloat is that it's really important to catch it and treat it early on. If the fish isn't eating and isn't holding, bloat would be the first suspect.

If it _is_ bloat, this doesn't mean that other fish in your tank aren't already infected and just not showing advanced symptoms, so they will also need treated food or treatment of the water column.

Bloat can move so slowly through a tank that it's sometimes difficult to relate one loss to another.

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

Ok, I just want to be perfectly clear on exactly how to do this. I treated today so I don't treat again until Tuesday correct? I do my water changes just before I do the next two treatments? Should I continue with the salts while I am doing this? I took my carbons out also. I still have 4 bio-wheels, foam, bio balls and ceramics in there. Is this medicine going to hurt my good bacteria?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

JessiLou, if you treated Saturday, you will treat again on Monday, then again on Wednesday. Do a 25% water change and good substrate vacuuming before adding the next round of meds.

You can continue to maintain the epsom salt, just replace the amount applicable to the amount of water you remove and replace.

JPC has never altered my biological filtration, but in newer tanks, it's always wise to monitor your water while treating.

Kim


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

my fish look a lot better today. No one is hiding and their colors are so much better. I fed them some food that had penicillin in it this morning and everyone ate except the albino. She actually tried a few times but spit it out. She wasn't even trying before I started with the Jungle medicine. Hopefully things will keep impoving during the rest of the treatments. Thank you for the advice.


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## JessiLou (May 31, 2008)

The albino is eating today. The only fish that did not eat this evening was my male red zebra. He has not had any problems and ate fine yesterday. I think he is just too busy removing substrate to get his circles back. I did a very thorough gravel cleaning and I messed up all his pretty little circles. Right now he is clearing three areas at the same time. Moves a rock from one and moves on to the other. I really don't think he is sick. I hope not, he is my favorite.

I ended up doing a very large water change trying to get the gravel as clean as I could. Now the kenyi I thought may be a male is a male for sure. The golden cichlid that I thought could be a male is mostly black now. As soon as I know they are all healthy, the extra male kenyi and all 4 goldens are getting exchanged for 2 female kenyi and another albino socolofi. I am also getting a bunch more demasoni. I opted to get the second 75 gallon and will move the labs and demasoni over to that after it finishes cycling. I have 5 mature filters that I can get squeezes from so it shouldn't take too long.


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