# Collecting banned from Otter Point?



## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

So I was reading old articles from various sites just to see the history of the hobby and came across a posting on Cichlid News from July 2010 that says the following:

_"The original form of Aulonocara jacobfreibergi shipped in the 1970s is from Otter Point, Malawi. *Now this location is part of Malawi National Park where collection is forbidden*. Bred fish from the original wild strain, without any additional man-made changes, are still popular among hobbyists."_

Is this still true? I guess that would explain why I've never seen a wild caught Otter Point jake and why tank raised ones are actually pretty scarce. Such a shame because they are prolly my fav Cichlid.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I believe so yes.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Good luck finding them. As far as I can recall they aren't allowed to collect there anymore but I do know someone who has them.


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

That look that good? I managed to get one from the ACA this year but unfortunately the male didnt make it, got his butt whooped by someone in my show tank and I was hoping he'd make it long enough for me to find females for him.


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## rafini (Mar 20, 2014)

If it is still part of the national park then I suppose collecting would be illegal still, but whats to stop locals who want money from collecting them for export behind the authorities back


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

I'd assume nothing but since they tend to live in caves, its prolly not the easiest to catch without proper gear. And I dont know what the fines and penalties are for getting caught and I'd assume its not the easiest to try and smuggle a fish. but I never knew it was a national park.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I do believe some fish are collected at Otter Island, which I think is just outside the Park.


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## typie88 (Jan 10, 2015)

O my god I want ine, they are freaking gorgeous


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

typie88 said:


> O my god I want ine, they are freaking gorgeous


I just picked up a group of 10 today. Theres 3 males and 7 females that I can tell, one male colored up nicely, and 2 sub doms. Picture of their father


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## typie88 (Jan 10, 2015)

I just picked up a group of 10 today. Theres 3 males and 7 females that I can tell, one male colored up nicely, and 2 sub doms.

how big are your fish. Would you sell one?


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

typie88 said:


> I just picked up a group of 10 today. Theres 3 males and 7 females that I can tell, one male colored up nicely, and 2 sub doms.
> 
> how big are your fish. Would you sell one?


They are right around 3 inches and under and not at this point, I'm going to hold off on selling any of the males just yet because I want to see who looks the best and choose that male to breed with and try to line breed them to bring out the natural colors like in the photo I posted originally. I've never seen an Otter Point with those colors and I want to bring these back into the hobby.


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## typie88 (Jan 10, 2015)

**** ha ha


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## Strgrd67 (Feb 2, 2015)

Hock,

I am also interested in breeding Otter points and keeping the strain as close to nature as possible.

I have 2 females and I'm looking for a male from a different source. If you ever decide to sell fries, please let me know.
They are very good mothers. They have always held their eggs even though they are unfertilized.


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## Strgrd67 (Feb 2, 2015)

Hock said:



> typie88 said:
> 
> 
> > I just picked up a group of 10 today. Theres 3 males and 7 females that I can tell, one male colored up nicely, and 2 sub doms.
> ...


Hock, actually the majority of otter points look slightly different than the one in your first post.

They look more like these:
http://www.ciklidhobby.com/product/edc6 ... 2e2f5d.jpg
http://africancichlidforum.com/mkportal ... Island.jpg
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jacNPjM6SZY/hqdefault.jpg

Notice how the one you posted has a red ventral fin, while the ones in the link have black ventral fins?
Other than that, they have the same color as that picture.


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## Strgrd67 (Feb 2, 2015)

Since, Otter point is off limits, maybe we can look at other areas nearby for wild fish.
i think wild gene is important in maintaining strong fish.
I had a tank raised lemon jake who bred with a wild female. Their offspring was very healthy. 
When their domestic tankmates would fall to bloat and skinny disease, they would be completely unaffected.

Back to Otter points,
I noticed that recently in the US, there are some Aulonocara Jacob sold as "Cape Maclear"
Are these the same race as otter points? They show the same exact color as otter points.
However, European websites show a fish that looks like eureka red as being the Cape Maclear.
So who has the right fish?










Based on my google search, Otter point is part of Cape Maclear. Otter island is a little island off close to Cape Maclear.
Since, Otter point is part of Cape Maclear, do the population interbreed freely in nature?

Hopefully someone who has dived there can chime in.


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## Strgrd67 (Feb 2, 2015)

Also, as a side project,

I would like to try to line breed a strain of otter points with yellow saddle (head area) instead of brown orange.
It would look similar to the one in the first link i posted.

It would have a bright yellow back. Like a lemon jake's body

Every thing else would be the same color as a normal Otter point

Black ventral fins.

White dorsal fins with red and pink flecks.

Bright orange anal fin

White tail fin

Blue face

Would appreciate if anyone with good knowledge in genetics/breeding can chime in.


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

As seen here, they are very close together so one is prolly the same maybe with a slight variation. Otter Points can show diff coloration also.

































The image I posted originally was from a video off youtube called "Cave of the Cichlid" and they clearly say they are at Otter Point at around the 2:27 mark.


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## Strgrd67 (Feb 2, 2015)

Cape Maclear is the entire square region right?


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## Strgrd67 (Feb 2, 2015)

Interesting that they have so much variation.

Hock,

I wasn't trying to say that the fish you posted isn't a wild Otterpoint.
In fact I saw "Cave of the Cichlid" on youtube before. I was just trying to say that most of the wild fish pictures, seem to show a black ventral fin instead of red ventral fins. I think there was a second otter point with completely black ventral fins in the same video.

Since, you posted those picture, I understand now that there is much variation in color.
Some of them almost seem like eurekas. I personally prefer the multicolor look.


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

The Eureka was line bred from the Otter points actually. I'd say the Cape McClear/Otter Point coloration will vary similar to how your Flametails do with the Ngara/Madoka location points


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## Strgrd67 (Feb 2, 2015)

Hock,

Out of curiosity, do your females have a red anal fin with darker ventral fin? That is how mines look like. (Will try to post a picture)

The adults at my LFS actually look almost exactly like the first picture you posted.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Far as line breeding... just be happy if you could breed Otter Points that actually looked similar to this nice wild male.


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

My group is still small but the females do have a orangish anal fin. As of right now, both males are showing white/powder blue in their dorsal, tail, and anal fins with orange in the base of the anal fin. They are kinda a yellowish on their noggins with a blue/purple head. They still have some growing to do and their colors will start becoming more prominent with the yellow turning to orange and the blue/purple expending to the rest of the body


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

So i found someone with the bloodline of the otter point that was at the ACA 2012 which looks dang good and very similar to the original photo except more orange. Going to get a male from this bloodline in two weeks.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

That guy looks great. Would love to see some pictures of his progeny.


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

Kanorin said:


> That guy looks great. Would love to see some pictures of his progeny.


The owners name is Dave Sielaff from up in Illinois.


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## Strgrd67 (Feb 2, 2015)

That is an awesome fish. It almost looks like its glowing. I bet eurekas are line bred from individuals like that one.


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

IMO these look better than any Eureka. The variety of colors these display is nuts. Orange, yellow, blue, purple, white, powder blue, etc


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Hock said:


> IMO these look better than any Eureka. The variety of colors these display is nuts. Orange, yellow, blue, purple, white, powder blue, etc


Yes, the Otter Point seems unique. Males do vary though. A nice male is a really cool fish.

As for Eureka, I never understand why people act like this is an improved breed. Most of the Eureka you see are hardly stunning. For comparison, a decent common German Red/ Rubenscens are much more colorful.


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## Strgrd67 (Feb 2, 2015)

Not trying to argue about the existence of variations but Just wandering if all these color variations exist in the lake or just in aquarium strains?
I was looking thru pictures of fish from the lake and they all seem to have consistent yellow/brown backs. Red anal fin, dark ventrals (with the exception of the one fish listed in the first post), White dorsal with red specks...

Sometimes I wonder if someone mixed them with eurekas, swallowtails, reginae etc, to get those color variation or if they naturally exist in the lake? :?


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## jw85 (Dec 24, 2013)

I am pretty proud of my guy. He is still growing and not fully colored. He's a color strain from Cape Maclear (in the map above). Apparently this strain can also be collected at Otter Point.

Can anyone see the difference? I've noticed some red staring to come in on his anal fin.


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## typie88 (Jan 10, 2015)

All you guys with your otter points are making me freakin jealous.


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## Strgrd67 (Feb 2, 2015)

Earlier, I posted that certain peacocks labeled as Cape Maclear look like eurekas (as does yours)

However, the ones at my LFS and KGtropicals have the typical otter point coloration while also being labeled as "Cape Maclear"

I wonder if its due to natural variation or does one source have it wrong?



jw85 said:


> I am pretty proud of my guy. He is still growing and not fully colored. He's a color strain from Cape Maclear (in the map above). Apparently this strain can also be collected at Otter Point.
> 
> Can anyone see the difference? I've noticed some red staring to come in on his anal fin.


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## jw85 (Dec 24, 2013)

Strgrd67 said:


> Back to Otter points,
> I noticed that recently in the US, there are some Aulonocara Jacob sold as "Cape Maclear"
> Are these the same race as otter points? They show the same exact color as otter points.
> However, European websites show a fish that looks like eureka red as being the Cape Maclear.
> ...


Oh that's interesting. My guy is from a German order, so that would align with your hypothesis.

So what makes mine look more like a Eureka and less like an Otter Point?


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## Strgrd67 (Feb 2, 2015)

Most Otter point I have seen look like this:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/i ... 1383&pic=9

They have yellow or brown head instead of red

Eureka look like this:
http://www.cichlids.com/uploads/tx_user ... 4dfc4b.jpg



jw85 said:


> Strgrd67 said:
> 
> 
> > Back to Otter points,
> ...


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)

Came home tonight to find one of my Otter Point females holding =D


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## Hock (Mar 23, 2012)




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