# 75 gal stock



## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

*** been debating on setting up a spare 75 gal i have laying around. The dimensions are 48 x 18 x 20. Would saulosi be suitable. if so how many?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

P. Saulosi are definitely suitable. Are you interested in a species only tank, or several groups?

If just Saulosi, I would buy 40 juveniles and move out trouble maker males as they mature. With that many, you'd have many males to choose from so you'd end up with the nicest barring and desireable temperment. I've found males to differ in their severity of aggression within a single species, and having several males to choose from helps. Of course, this means moving fish around to see how they will respond when given the chance to be dominant...


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Well i didnt think about a mixed species tank. What would my options be? And i wouldnt want any cross breeding happening. 
If i went straight saulosi's what would the end result look like, meaning male to female ratio and how many saulosi's altogether?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I would start with 24 saulosi in a tank of that size, and keep four to five males...


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Okay so 5 males; how many females would i keep?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Alexpol08 said:


> Okay so 5 males; how many females would i keep?


Keep all of the females.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Soo potentially 19 females? 
And what would the mixed species tank look like? Like what kinds of cichlids?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

A lot depends on the species, but begin with this concept in mind and we can advise if you need to tweak from here.

Think in terms of 4 species of mbuna. 1m:4f of each. Also think in terms of 4 different genus and no look-alikes.

Avoid special needs mbuna like demasoni, auratus, crabro, melanochromis, kenyi, etc.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Pseudotropheus elongatus Chilosi?Cynotilapia afra white Top?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Fogelhund said:


> I would start with 24 saulosi in a tank of that size, and keep four to five males...


Even if it were to be a species only tank? Talking with folks who have bred them, word on this forum and from my limited experience breeding them it's apparent that P. Saulosi is quite male heavy.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Avoid look-alikes. One blue-barred species/tank so choose one or the other of those. The elongatus need 1m:7f and females are not as colorful as the male.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Im sorry. I was looking at picture on the internet and there was a all white cichlid with black stripes, that was said to be a Cynotilapia afra white Top. Thats why i put that one, but upon inspection of google images, it is not the one i was looking at.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They can look almost white when spawning, but they are really a blue fish . The scientific name is Cynotilapia sp. hara (it's not one of the afras). A common name for them is white tops.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Ohh okay, is there a Mbuna that is white and black with vertical stripes?
When you say "4 species of mbuna". If i go with the saulosi's then youre saying i should not get any other Pseudotropheus correct?


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## 3000GT (Jan 18, 2014)

I'm not sure about compatibility, but maybe labidichromis chisumulae (clown labs)


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

Salousi (blue barred & yellow) 1m:4f
Labeotropheus trewavasae "red top" (powder blue & OB) 1m:7f
Rusty (purple/brown) 1m:4f
18 fish


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Alexpol08 said:


> Ohh okay, is there a Mbuna that is white and black with vertical stripes??


Not white with black...and even then it would be too much of a look-alike with the hara, right? Labidochromis Perlmutt can look a little like that. There is the Victorian Astatotilapia latifasciata which is black/white bars and males have touches of yellow and red. Might work with peaceful mbuna. FYI stripes are horizontal and bars are vertical.



Alexpol08 said:


> When you say "4 species of mbuna". If i go with the saulosi's then youre saying i should not get any other Pseudotropheus correct?


Our hobby is confusing because to every rule there is an exception. Pseudotropheus genus is the exception because unclassified fish reside here until they are classified. So Pseudotropheus you can mix.


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

DJRansome said:


> Not white with black...and even then it would be too much of a look-alike with the hara, right? Labidochromis Perlmutt can look a little like that.


Years ago I picked up a trio of Labidochromis that was pearl white with jet black vertical barring. No bars or markings on the head region and had 4-5 bars on the body only. It was sold as Nkhata Bay or Lundo. I was never able to find them ever again. I think that GTZ also kept the same variant. Not 100% sure though.


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)




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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

I like that fish mudkicker!

So what about something like this
Pseudotropheus saulosi'
Pseudotropheus Elongatus jewel spot

Victorian Astatotilapia latifasciata
Pundamilia nyererei Anchor Island

Or would they mix of Malawi and Victorian be a problems?


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## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

I would not recommend mixing mbuna with fish from any other lakes. Mbuna tend to be too much for Victorian cichlids to handle.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Saulosi and elongatus are both blue barred fish, choose one.

I would not mix nyererei with mbuna, I did try that. The males were basically black and the females languished over a period of years. Once I put them back in a species tank all the colors re-appeared.

The astatotilapia I had with all male Malawi haps and peacocks and he was too aggressive for them (although this mix works for many). Might work with mbuna though.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Okay so what about
pseudotropheus acei
Pseudotropheus saulosi
Pseudotropheus flavus (i know the females are rather colorless but i really like the males!)
Pseudotropheus crabro


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Crabro is on the special needs list. 8" fish and aggressive. Males are brown/black and females look like flavus. 
I'd probably go with 3 species but use 2 species slots for saulosi to get 3 blue barred males. 3m:9f on the saulosi.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

So you said that people have succeeded with the Astatotilapia
so what about them and the Saulosi's?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Astatotilapia have worked for others (not me) in an all-male Malawi tank.

I see them with saulosi in one of the cookie cutter tanks. I'd try it with those 2 species and acei.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Didnt you say to use 3 species, with 2 spots being taken up by the saulosi's? Wouldnt adding the acei's be too much?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'm thinking right now this is your list:
3m:9f saulosi
1m:4f astatotilapia
1m:4f acei


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

DJRansome said:


> I'm thinking right now this is your list:
> 3m:9f saulosi
> 1m:4f astatotilapia
> 1m:4f acei


Personally I would drop the Victorian. Choose something powder blue to offset the yellow of the Salousi females. I would switch the Acei for Rusty. Acei will get too big for a 48.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

If i drop the victorian i will probably pick up the flavus.
I am debating on the rusties, havnt made up my mind yet. But are there any all black cichlids that would work or one that has a bit of red in it (not all red)? I heard of something called a "super red top" but i cant seem to see them for sale anywhere


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They have blue bars. Cynotilapia, metriaclima and hongi all have super red tops or rep tops. That's the trouble with saulosi...once you have blue bars and yellow there is not much left in the mbuna world, LOL. There is a blue-black acei but nothing truly black IMO. Socolofi...normal blue or albino.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Okay so maybe i should ask this are there other cichlids in general that would work with a 75gal? I also dont necessarily need to go with saulosi, i just really liked them.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Well you are in the Lake Malawi section so I assume you are limiting to Lake Malawi. Yes you can put most of them in a 75G if they mature at or under 6".

Shall we also assume you don't want mbuna since we've gone through a laundry list of recommendations and nothing appealed? So haps and/or peacocks then?


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Well i was attracted to this forum section due to the Saulosi's but since i cant seem to find a mix of mbunas that i like with them in it, i am moving to the possibility of other cichlids. This is the largest tank *** ever had so im really unknowledgeable about what cichlids in general can be placed in it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Take a look at cookie cutter tanks for 75G in the Cichlid-forum Library to get ideas.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Well that is one **** of a resource! I believe i am going to go with a victorian tank. So i shall direct my questions to that section. Sorry to use up your time but i did gaim some knowledge!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Glad to get you pointed in the right direction.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Im back. quick question as im still really attracted to some of these malawi fish and im toying with the vic tank or coming back so I was looking over the cookie cutter tanks

and i was wondering if this would work 
Pseudotropheus saulosi 3:9
Pseudotropheus flavus 1:4
cynotilapia afra cobue 1:4

The cookie tank paird the saulosi with the afra so i wasnt sure.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

That gives you 3 species with barring. And afra cobue(zebroides 'Cobwe') will show it's best color when it feels dominant in the tank. Unlikely to happen with an elongatus type(flavus).


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Okaym makes sense, thanks


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Would i be able have Metriaclima sp. Msobo? Or no since the females closly resemble the saulosi's?


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Or what about these guys labeotropheus fuelleborni katale?
assuming i drop either the flavus or the cobue.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Okay so lets do it this way
These are the fish i like. Would anyone them, main being saulosi, make a sutible tank? 
Pseudotropheus polit
Pseudotropheus saulosi
Pseudotropheus flavus 
cynotilapia afra cobue 
Metriaclima sp. Msobo
labeotropheus fuelleborni katale?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

From that list I'd start with 3m:12 saulosi and add 1m:4f flavus.

You could try 3m:12 saulosi and add 1m:4f polit. They have a rep both for being aggressive but also for not coloring up unless they are dominant in the tank. They might work.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

what if i left out the saulosi's? would that make a difference in the stocking from that list?
Sorry i keep asking so many questions, im very picky and im learning what goes together and why/why not.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

I just made a deal for a 100gal tank. dimensions are 60 x 18 x 20 inch. how would that change my options?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

With a 60" tank you can go 5 species instead of 4 but otherwise, same options. You still don't want look-alikes.

Maybe it would be better for you to tell us what you DON'T like about the prior suggestions so we can fit your requirements?

From that list
Pseudotropheus polit and cynotilapia afra cobue I don't think would color up well with the fuelleborni.

1m:4f Pseudotropheus flavus 
1m:4f Metriaclima sp. Msobo
1m:7f labeotropheus fuelleborni katale

Then maybe 1m:4f socolofi or acei to substitute for the polit. Or if you prefer a Cynotilapia, I'd go with Jalo Reef or Hara.


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

OP...I suggest that you pick one species that you really like a lot and just have to have. Then we will help you work around that. You need to establish a starting point.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Well there are a few issues that im having, first i like alot of them and want them all in my tank lol
Next google. When i google a picture i get 20 different variations of what the fish could look like. The rusties are a good example of this. 
Next i dont want common fish that i see in my LFS or at walmart.
Next I love contrasting coloros, red/black, blue/back, yellow/black, some with red mixed in, mostly black. Most fish i like tend to have black bars with hurts my selection.

Fish i like and why
The Pseudotropheus polit - im seeing a all white fish with a black head.
Pseudotropheus saulosi - blue & black bars, plus a female with color
Pseudotropheus flavus - i love the black and yellow. 
cynotilapia afra cobue - pic im seeing has blue on bottom, yellow or orange on top and black bars
Metriaclima sp. Msobo - blue and black with a colorful female
labeotropheus fuelleborni katale - pic im seeing, mostly yellow body with blue head and top

Fish i dont really like would be solid color males, or fish that have blotchy colors. reminds me of a Koi fish

I hope that helps. Im very picky I know.

Main thing im looking for is a variety of different males with the possibility of breeding, which is why i dont want a all male tank or a species only


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

This is also a challenge because the most common pattern is bars and you want to avoid look-alikes.


> Fish i dont really like would be solid color males


So what's wrong with this?

1m:4f Pseudotropheus flavus 
1m:4f Metriaclima sp. Msobo
1m:7f labeotropheus fuelleborni katale
1m:4f Pseudotropheus polit (take the risk)
1m:4f Cynotilapia sp. Hara


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

Nothing at all lol i didnt know that was a option.

Questions thought, didnt you say the flavus would not color up unless it felt dominate?
Also with the polit, is that a "try at own risk" or "i think itll work, but still has a risk?


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

i also just found a place that has a 
pseudotropheus perspicax red top ndumbi 
in stock, could that fit in anywhere.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

or this guy?
Copadichromis Mloto likoma regular


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Flavus should work. Polit is a risk because they like to be dominant in the tank to color well, but with a criteria of no solid males, worth the risk. Perspicax is extremely aggressive...maybe if you did a species tank. Mloto is a hap and they are too timid to mix with mbuna.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

okay quick question. 
The 100gal fell through. It was actually only a 55. 
But i got another deal on a 72gal bow front, which looks better than my current 75.

The question is, it has a overflow. Will that take up too much room?
pic


For a stocking off
1m:4f Pseudotropheus flavus 
1m:4f Metriaclima sp. Msobo
1m:7f labeotropheus fuelleborni katale
1m:4f Pseudotropheus polit

Or the victorian set up
Xystichromis Kyoga Flameback 1:4
Paralabidochromis sp. "Rock Kribensis" 1:4
Astatotilapia latifasciata 1:4
Paralabidochromis chromogynos 1:4

itll come down to which stocking list i can get more easily


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

The 72 bowfront should be treated as a 55 gallon because you cannot factor in the 'bow' as additional territory. Just use your current standard 75.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

awesome! thanks for the quick reply!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

So back to 3 species. Eliminate labeotropheus for sure.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

no no, i wont be getting the bow front. So its 4 for the 75gal, correct?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Four depending on the species you choose.


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

1m:4f Pseudotropheus flavus 
1m:4f Metriaclima sp. Msobo
1m:7f labeotropheus fuelleborni katale
1m:4f Pseudotropheus polit

was the four i was planning on


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Did this ever happen???


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## Alexpol08 (Jun 29, 2014)

It did not, i ended up going with a mixed Victorian tank. It was going good but i ran into some crappy health stuff and had to shut it down.


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