# A Peacock Tank?? How does this work... or how COULD it work.



## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

So I plunged and bought a couple of large tanks (a 125 and a 180). Now what to stock.

I've heard that with Peacocks most if not all males color up, as opposed to Haps... this makes me intrigued by Peacocks.

How does one go about creating a Peacock tank? I don't want to buy sexed adults - I'd rather buy juvies and watch them develop, but of course you don't know what sex the juvies are.

Maybe the only good approach is to buy sexed adults, I don't know. I want a show tank, but I want to watch them grow up. I also wouldn't mind some breeding, but I don't want cross breeding. I'm not so interested in a bunch of drab females in the larger tank.

I wouldn't mind having some breeding groups in one of the spare 55's... keeping select fish as they appear for the show tank... but then they have to get a little size before you really know what they're going to look like.

Can you keep more than one male of the same species in an all male Peacock tank? If so I think I'd like an all male tank with attractive duplicates that I've raised from breeding groups. Ah heck I don't know.

As you can tell I'm kind of lost as to what to do :lol: . Would appreciate any information on how to proceed.


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## poseidons minions (Dec 1, 2009)

Females complicate that kind of set up I've tried that all male before but failed maybe you might have better luck.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

The plan would be to only have females as part of a single species, or very distinct species, breeding group(s) in smaller tank(s), then pull colorful males for the larger show tank as they appear. I realize this could get complicated and if I can only have one male of a specific species in the larger tanks then... that idea is dead right out of the gate because my MTS is not THAT bad :lol: .

I'm so lost and not even sure what I'm asking. I want some really colorful fish in a show tank and would like it if I was able to stock it/them from fry/juvies I raise. Not sure if this is possible or how to go about it if it is possible.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't find it to be true that you would have a higher percentage of haps color up than peacocks in an all-male tank.

Multiple males of the same species are likely to have only one coloring up.

If you want to grow them all from juveniles, you could do a separate tank for each species. What I do is buy sexable males (young adult) of the ones that are available, but there is invariably 1-2 species I want that I can only get as juveniles. I'll buy six of those and grow them out in the tank with the big guys. Maybe that will satisfy your need to watch something grow. Make REALLY sure you can ID the females of the juvenile species...like one has spots and one has stripes if you mix. I did that with Protomelas marginatus. Take out the extras the instant you think you can ID a male.


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## Derpfish (Jul 26, 2012)

Female peacocks don't color up, sadly. I have a 125 with mixed peacocks and the males are a little territorial at times and will chase each other around a little but that's alleviated by having plenty of hiding spots and enough females. The territories seem to be in a constant state of flux though because one day one male will chase everyone out of a certain area and then the next day a different male will be controlling that same area. opcorn:


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

DJRansome said:


> I don't find it to be true that you would have a higher percentage of haps color up than peacocks in an all-male tank.
> 
> Multiple males of the same species are likely to have only one coloring up.
> 
> If you want to grow them all from juveniles, you could do a separate tank for each species. What I do is buy sexable males (young adult) of the ones that are available, but there is invariably 1-2 species I want that I can only get as juveniles. I'll buy six of those and grow them out in the tank with the big guys. Maybe that will satisfy your need to watch something grow. Make REALLY sure you can ID the females of the juvenile species...like one has spots and one has stripes if you mix. I did that with Protomelas marginatus. Take out the extras the instant you think you can ID a male.


+1
Another option is to purchase young sexable males, place them in the show tank and allow the fish to mature. This way, it alleviates the issues of weeding out the extra juvies. Obviously, it's not that big of a deal but creating an all male tank starting from juvies is going to take some time. 
Another idea is to purchase a couple groups of juvies and raise them in a breeder tank. Then you have your breeding groups and as a couple males mature, place them in your larger show tanks.

As *DJRansome *mentioned, it's unlikely to have two or more males of the same variation within species show spectacular color. In the show tanks, try to shoot for approximately 20 fish for 125 gal and 25-30 fish for the 180 gal. The stock numbers are approximate because they're dependent on the sizes of the mature adults. You can certainly have a couple breeding tanks, but you're going to need to find another source in which to stock your larger tanks.

It's a fun process but expect a little trial and error along the way.


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## ws812 (Apr 17, 2009)

With a large tank you might be able to do large breeding groups of haps. Given you choose species that don't look similar. I'd think Placidochromis Phenochilus, Copadichromis borleyi red fin, and Dimidiochromis compressiceps stocked at ratios of 1:4-6 would work. Buy up some juvies and weed out the males until your'e left with a dominant male of each species. If you end up weeding to many out for your ratio females usually come at a pretty cheap price.  With Pheno. you may even be able to keep more than one male given you have enough females in the tank(but don't set your heart on it). Once you get a nice large male fish one of the tanks will become an all-male tank at some point.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Dawg2012 said:


> Maybe the only good approach is to buy sexed adults, I don't know. I want a show tank, but I want to watch them grow up. I also wouldn't mind some breeding, but I don't want cross breeding. I'm not so interested in a bunch of drab females in the larger tank.


I would buy the sexed adults if you really want the All Male tank...in the long run you will spend less on fish than if you buy say 5 or 6 juvies and watch them grow then have to rehome the extras with lots of species.

You have a couple of 55G listed as project tanks...after you pick your initial stock of males...pick one (or two) that you would really like to focus on and grow up and stock your 55G(s) with the juvies and have some fun growing up a few for breeding stock.

But of course some of the other suggestions sound great too...good luck and keep us informed. :dancing:


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Alright thanks everyone - I really appreciate the help. I think the picture is becoming clearer.

A couple of clarifications:



DJRansome said:


> ... Multiple males of the same species are likely to have only one coloring up.


Are you refering to Haps or Peacocks? Or both...



DanniGirl said:


> ... Another idea is to purchase a couple groups of juvies and raise them in a breeder tank.


When you say this, do you mean the same breeder tank, or separate? I read in Marc's article that you can mix certain species in the right ratios, or is cross breeding not a concern with juvies?

Do I gather from all the responses that size/maturity isn't as important as it is with Mbuna? It sounds like I could buy some males, and at a later point add maybe one or two species of juvies and grow them out *in the same tank* with the adults... Identify the male(s), rehome the rest, and repeat with a different species?


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

If you have multiple males of the same species in the same tank haps or peacocks they will most likely not tolerate it. I've been lucky with a couple of dragonsbloods but they're still young and every other type I have in my 125 will not tolerate another male or their kind or a male that looks similar. There will be shuffling and removal so you'll need some extra tanks for that. I agree that growing them is fun but you'd only be able to grow one type of peacock (the females all look the same). You can however grow groups that don't look the same, I grew protomelas, placidichromis, aulonocara and lethrinops (1 species of each) in the same tank but they all have different patterns/body shapes. The rest I had to either buy a single male or grow in separate tanks. Also, for me they started breeding as soon as the first male started showing some color (~2.5"). The other problem with growing them is getting rid of the females that you don't want...once you've gotten the male you were looking for.
just my thoughts,


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Okay, good feedback. Thanks.

I see you have Labs in with your Haps/Peacocks. How's that working out? Do you have a breeding group of them or just a male?


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## red top hongi (Aug 1, 2012)

I was wanting to do the same thing, but from all of the local pet store in my area, I can only get assorted juvie peacocks. I've come to learn certain online websites will have sexable young males that dont fully have all there color. The Ngara flametail is one of my favorites. But the best way I think to do it is to do a all male tank. Peacocks are generally a more doscile species so if you put plenty of rockwork in they can hide and will get along. Having mixed species of females will probably cause interbreeding, because they all basically look the same. And of course be carefull with Mbuas in there. I didnt read the other replies haha so I hope I was repeating any info. Good luck!


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## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

Dawg2012 said:


> Okay, good feedback. Thanks.
> 
> I see you have Labs in with your Haps/Peacocks. How's that working out? Do you have a breeding group of them or just a male?


labs work great in peacock/hap all male tanks. I've had breeding groups of labs and acei in my all male tanks for years. I've got rid of the labs, and i'm working on moving the acei, since i want more larger haps. neither the haps or peacocks have ever paid attention to the the labs or acei. both have held pure fry, some of the acei make up my current group.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Ah that's good to know. I love labs.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

I had to remove our single lab as he was a rather aggressive individual...too bad really.


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## sandandrocks (Apr 3, 2012)

If you want an all male peacock only tank anything larger than 5 ft will be an overkill. Simply because most peacocks max at 6 inches so they don't need the 6 ft length. I'd suggest something like a 75-100 gallon.

IMO you will not be able to breed your peacocks in an all male tank. If you really want to breed i'd suggest you have a show tank with all your colored males. Than you can have smaller tanks like a 55 and keep 4-5 females of a single peacock species. So you will have one 125 or 180 show tank with multiple small tanks for breeding. When you feel you want to breed a peacock move him from your show tank to his females tank. After he breeds with 1 female move him back to the show tank and repeat the process.

In regards to growing out juvies/fry (since you mentioned you wouldn't mind seeing them grow) i would say get multiple smaller tanks like a 20L and grow each peacock group out separately. But considering you will probably want at least 10 different species of peacocks i would say ditch this path and just get young colored males around 3 inches. This way you know which are males and females and the price isn't as high as a fully mature male. At 3 inches they will still grow.

Sorry for the long rant, but there are many paths you may choose. Let us know if any of that made sense to you


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

No problem I appreciate the long rant . The more information the better right now.

I think you kind of confirmed the direction I had... come to. Raising them individually will take a lot of tanks, and while I certainly have MTS, I'm not ready to dedicate that many tanks to this effort.

I'll probably choose a combination of approaches. Getting a couple groups of juvies from the LFS to raise, and also buying some sexed juvies online for the majority of the stocking.

It's interesting you advocate a less than 6' tank. I understand this is because they don't get that large, but is it also because there simply aren't that many different types of peacocks and since you can't have more than one male per species you're not going to really fill up a 6' tank? I've kind of run into this with the all male mbuna tank.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

If you're set on going only peacock, I'd use one of the 55's that you have. If you're open to haps I would use one of your larger tanks and start looking at some peaceful haps to go with your peacocks, there are many more color/patterns and some different body styles as well.

We did exactly that, we got some groups of different looking juveniles and also bought single males.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Awesome. And yes, totally open to Haps - in fact would love some. :thumb:

I REALLY like the Phenochilus Tanzania, but they get large. Is size difference as big a deal for Haps/Peacocks as it is for mbuna?

I've also heard that Haps are less likely to color up if they're not the dominant fish in the tank? Any truth to this or YMMV?


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

As long as they won't fit in anyone's mouth size differences should be alright. Once the peacocks are full grown it won't be a problem. do some searching for hap/peacock videos, that should get interested, my guys are still coloring up and not full grown but from videos I've seen and photos, they're all colored up unless there's aggression b/n individuals.


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Dawg2012 said:


> It's interesting you advocate a less than 6' tank. I understand this is because they don't get that large, but is it also because there simply aren't that many different types of peacocks and since you can't have more than one male per species you're not going to really fill up a 6' tank? I've kind of run into this with the all male mbuna tank.


There are some peacocks that I would not recommend keeping in 48" tank. These include the Aulonocara sp. Walteri, Aulonocara sp. Lwanda and Aulonocara jacobfreibergi. The reason being is not their size but their temperament. They can be aggressive as far as peacocks are concerned.

You can have multiple males of the same species, they just need to be different variants. Take Aulonocara stuartgranti for example. You can have an Aulonocara stuartgranti Chiwindi and an Aulonocara stuartgranti Cobue. Same species but different variants.



Dawg2012 said:


> I've also heard that Haps are less likely to color up if they're not the dominant fish in the tank? Any truth to this or YMMV?


There is some truth but it's on a broader scale. Any peacock or hap will not color up to their full breeding dress unless they're either a.) in the presence of females or b.) the dominant male. Furthermore, there are also some haps that will not color up in an all male environment (regardless if dominance) and those include almost all Lethrinops and some Copadichromis. But the majority of the haps you'll be able to obtain will display nice color in an all male tank. Those would include Protomelas, Placidochromis, Copadichromis, Sciaenochromis and the larger, more boisterous haps.


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## nudge (Aug 1, 2011)

I disagree with using the smaller tanks for a show tank. I have found male peacocks to be very aggressive towards other males peacocks i have a 5ft 90g and there is alot of aggression from my peacocks. They can be relentless. My benga is the smallest in the tank and he has an albino ruby red twice his size pressed up in the corner of the tank. I had to pull a lwanda and a eureka and put them in a seperate tank (with a divider). The lwanda had 3 other peacocks cowering in the corners of my tank, he just never stopped. wasn't interested in the haps but wanted to kill all the other peacocks in the tank.

My advice would be use the biggest tank you can, the more room the better, these guys can get pretty aggro.


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## sandandrocks (Apr 3, 2012)

You should stock your 125 or 180 with an all male peacock/hap set up instead of an all male peacock. IME peacocks are more aggressive than haps so keeping an all male peacock tank would have more aggression. Plus there aren't enough variation of peacocks to stock a 6 ft tank. A 4-5 ft tank would be great for an all male peacock tank but only if you get a 75 or larger since you would need the 18 inches depth instead of the 12.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Believe it or not this is all starting to gel in my mind - THANKS for all the input. :thumb:

I took the plunge last night and bought six Placidochromis Phenochilus Tanzania, four Maylandi "Sulfur Heads" (probably two M two F) and one Jacobfreibergi "Otter Point" (that was showing to be a male). They are all juvies, between 1.75 and 2" long. Everyone went in a spare 55 (that a large pleco has kept cycling) to do some growing while I finish setting up the larger tanks. They all chowed on some live brine shrimp last night and some flakes this morning and everyone looks well. Kind of all schooling together.

I know the Phenochilus will get big. I fell in love with these a while back when someone posted a thread about them with pictures. Gorgeous fish! They will likely inhabit the 180 someday - hopefully with other Haps/Peacocks.

Turns out the LFS has a really good selection of Peacocks and other "Haps". I guess I never noticed them because of their relatively drab colors as juvies. I need to go research Marc's article on the different subgroups of Aulonocara before buying more.

ANYWAY - questions...

For right now, given that all these guys are the only fish in the 55, what's the BEST tank setup for them? Sand with a few rocks scattered about? Caves? Plants?

Also, long term, is it possible a male Phenochilus would work in the all male Hap/Peacock tank, or does their size/temperment likely to make that not possible or YMMV?


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## sandandrocks (Apr 3, 2012)

The setup should mostly be "sandandrocks"  as this immitates Lake Malawi more than having plants. Plus most malawians will dig up the roots of plants. Your Placidochromis Phenochilus Tanzania should be fine in a 180 all male peacock/hap tank. I don't own one, but i've heard they aren't overly aggressive and takes a very long time before they start to show their white specks.


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

Gahhhh, still SO JEALOUS! I can't wait to see how they mature. Lots of pictures, please!


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

sandandrocks said:


> The setup should mostly be "sandandrocks"  as this immitates Lake Malawi more than having plants. Plus most malawians will dig up the roots of plants. Your Placidochromis Phenochilus Tanzania should be fine in a 180 all male peacock/hap tank. I don't own one, but i've heard they aren't overly aggressive and takes a very long time before they start to show their white specks.


Ah ha ha sandandrocks it is. That's kind of what I figured...

And yeah, I've read like two to four years to get spotted up. I have to say though, even as juvies they are attractive.



Storiwyr said:


> Gahhhh, still SO JEALOUS! I can't wait to see how they mature. Lots of pictures, please!


  I was going to take some last night but left my camera card at work. But yeah, gotta get some pictures - especially as they mature.

And yeah, if you get some of Razzo's Calvus/Comps we definitely have to trade some young. I love those Muzi Gold Heads he has. Love em love em love em...


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## Derpfish (Jul 26, 2012)

My peacocks like to hide in plants just as much as rocks. If I turn the light on in the middle of the night I'll find the majority of them between the handful of plants in my tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Don't mix the peacocks if you have females in the tank...they crossbreed and once mixed you cannot ID the separate species of females, preventing any future sale options.

Some peacocks like more rocks than others, but a fair amount of open water too.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Dawg2012 said:


> I took the plunge last night and bought six Placidochromis Phenochilus Tanzania, four Maylandi "Sulfur Heads" (probably two M two F) and one Jacobfreibergi "Otter Point" (that was showing to be a male). They are all juvies, between 1.75 and 2" long. Everyone went in a spare 55 (that a large pleco has kept cycling) to do some growing while I finish setting up the larger tanks.


Shucks...still trying to decide what the heck I'm going to do...would love to see pics Dawg2012 when you get a chance....enjoy your new babies :dancing:


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Without reading the whole thread I can tell you this much. Make sure you have a good spare tank or two to move fish around. I had to recently go buy another tank for this exact reason. Also ONLY buy from a dealer where you know you are not buying hormoned fish. The hormoned females can look just like the males or appear to be smaller males just starting to color. This recently caused me major problems and a lot of money.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> Don't mix the peacocks if you have females in the tank...they crossbreed and once mixed you cannot ID the separate species of females, preventing any future sale options.


This article suggests ways to mix Peacocks given some conditions are met...

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/mixing_peacocks.php

Thoughts?

Also, is it relatively safe, from a cross breeding perspective, to have a breeding group of Haps in the tank?

If so I could have three breeding groups - say Beanschi's, Maylandi's and Lithobates - without fear of cross breeding.

Thoughts?


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

You want only one breeding group of Aulonocara. The article mentions that you can have more groups but the chance of crossbreeding is significantly increased. Ideally, you want two breeding groups of haps such as the Placidochromis and Otopharynx, providing you omit the Sciaenochromis fryeri. The fryeri are notorious for crossbreeding.

I know you have the maylandi but be aware that the males will not color up in an all male tank, regardless if you have females. Since you have a smaller tank, it may be best to have a species only tank with the maylandi.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

DanniGirl said:


> You want only one breeding group of Aulonocara. The article mentions that you can have more groups but the chance of crossbreeding is significantly increased. ...


**** ... Okay... Here is what I have so far. Right now everyone is in a couple of 55's, and I can easily tell the females apart. All the fish are between 1 and 2 inches:

1M- A. Jacobfreibergi "Otter Point"
4 - A. Maylandi "Sulferhed"
1M - A. "OB"
6 - A. Beanschi "Sunshine Peacock"
6 - A. Maleri "Rubin Red"
4 - O. Lithobates "Red top Aristo"
2 - P. Electra "Deep Water Hap"
6 - P. "Phenochilus Tanzania"

* I'm thinking the Maleri's, Lithobates and Electra's (add a few more) in one 55 - 1m/2-4f of each?
* The Baenschi's and Phenochilus in another 55 (obviously have to move the Phenochilus at some point),
* The OB and Jacob as a start on the show tank.

This leaves the Maylandi's. Shoot I was counting on being able to intelligently mix these (based on that article) but I don't want hybrids, and I want to be able to definitively tell the females apart. Of course I could just get over letting them spit in the tank... Hmmm...



DanniGirl said:



> ... Ideally, you want two breeding groups of haps such as the Placidochromis and Otopharynx, providing you omit the Sciaenochromis fryeri. The fryeri are notorious for crossbreeding.


Okay, so you mean you can mix two distinct species of haps and a group of peacocks? So I take it different species of Haps are less likely to cross breed, and definitely will NOT cross breed with peacocks?

Note to self - no more peacocks, except for lone males. Ugh.

Speaking of which, the LFS has a Male Letherinops "Mbazi" for $39.95. About 2.5" long. BEAUTIFUL fish... They say they are extremely rare... Thoughts?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have them. Not supposed to color up at all in an all-male tank. They ARE beautiful fish.


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Dawg2012 said:


> * I'm thinking the Maleri's, Lithobates and Electra's (add a few more) in one 55 - 1m/2-4f of each?


That should work. Try to aim for 1m:4f of each.



Dawg2012 said:


> * The Baenschi's and Phenochilus in another 55 (obviously have to move the Phenochilus at some point)


That will work.



Dawg2012 said:


> * The OB and Jacob as a start on the show tank.


Sounds good.



Dawg2012 said:


> Okay, so you mean you can mix two distinct species of haps and a group of peacocks? So I take it different species of Haps are less likely to cross breed, and definitely will NOT cross breed with peacocks?


Yes. There is always a chance that they can crossbreed so if you plan to sell the fry, then it's best to have one breeding group of Aulonocara. But, you can mix certain hap breeding groups providing they have the correct f:m ratios; a minimum of 4 females per 1 male.



Dawg2012 said:


> Speaking of which, the LFS has a Male Letherinops "Mbazi" for $39.95. About 2.5" long. BEAUTIFUL fish... They say they are extremely rare... Thoughts?


Lethrinops really don't color up well in an all male tank. If there are females present and if they are the dominant fish, then there's a good chance that they will show color. If you could obtain 3-4 females, you could place them in a tank along with the maylandi breeding group.


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

Also, long term, is it possible a male Phenochilus would work in the all male Hap/Peacock tank, or does their size/temperment likely to make that not possible or YMMV?[/quote]

A male phenochilus will work fine in a all male hap/peacock setup. They are not aggressive but can hold their own. They will get 8-10" but it will take them 3-5 years to get that size. I have a 8-9" full grown male with four 5" juvi males also with them and they all get along. The 4 juvi males will occasionally lip lock but not to the point of hurting each other. The phenos are in my 220 male/hap tank that can get aggressive at times.


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## Michael_M (May 31, 2012)

My Phenochilus grows so slow I worry about my eye biter eating him in 6-12 months if his current pace keeps up.

Buy one as as big as you can get lol.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

I have six of them... I'm guessing 1.25" long. They're pretty small and I've heard they grow really slow - which is fine with me. I might get four more just to ensure I get a good group out of them.

As for the all male tank - I think I've decided instead on several breeding groups in several 55's. I'm shooting for 1 peacock + 2 hap groups in each tank. If an all male tank develops at some point in the future that would be great - but for now I think the breeding groups will be more interesting. One of the mods  pointed out that they didn't feel a tank full of sexually frustrated males that may or may not color up was very interesting... and after thinking about it, this is basically what my all male mbuna tank is LOL. It's nice and peaceful... but kinda boring.

I got four more Electra's (for a total of six) and picked up six Mayleri's today after returning the six Lithobates as they were... missing some parts lol.

I'll likely take the OB back soon as he's... a jerk... and I don't plan on breeding them.

Going to pick up some "Yellow Blaze" Lithobates in about a month and that will probably do it until I move and have room for more tanks


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Know that haps can crossbreed as well if not carefully selected. I'm still learning how to do that, but other experienced hap breeder Members can chime in on your proposed stocking.


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

Dawg2012 said:


> Going to pick up some "Yellow Blaze" Lithobates in about a month and that will probably do it until I move and have room for more tanks


Cuz 13 just ISN'T enough. You need a nice sturdy base for your cardboard box!


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Do you have any idea what breeding groups (haps) you plan to keep?


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Right now I have (too many Peacocks lol):

A. Rubescens (6)
A. Maylandi (4)
A. Baenschi (6)
A. Maleri (6)
P. Electra (6)
P. Phenochilus Tanzania (6)
C. Borleyi (6)
O. Lithobates (plan to add 6 in a month or so)

It looks like I'll need four tanks - each with one Peacock and one Hap species? Any chance any two of either the Peacocks or Haps could be mixed with little chance of hybridization?

Edit: Sorry, you only asked about Haps - but here's everything


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Out of your list, I would not suggest mixing any peacocks, especially if you plan to sell the fry. Once the females are mixed together, it's going to be difficult telling some of them apart. (Especially the Maleri, Rubescens and baenschi.)

For your haps, you can mix the O. lithobates and P. Phenochilus Tanzania (along with one peacock) in one tank and the C. Borleyi and P. Electra (along with one peacock excluding the maylandi) in another tank.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Okay. I'm sorry... I confused myself  . I believe the A. Maleri and A. Rubescens are the same fish. My receipt says [Aulonocara sp. "Maleri" "Rubin Red"], which I believe equates to the Rubescens in the Profiles section as it says it is [line bred from the Maleri Island race of Aulonocara sp. ''Stuartgranti Maleri".]

I also have C. Trewavasae, which I didn't list. So, the revised (and hopefully correct) list is (by proposed tank):

Tank #1:
O. Lithobates (plan to add 6 juvies in a month or so) (blue/yellow, 5.5")
P. Phenochilus Tanzania (blue spotted, 10")
A. Rubescens (Red, 5")

Tank #2:
A. Baenschi (Blue/Yellow, 5")
P. Electra (striped, 6")
C. Trewavasae "Mloto Likoma" (Black/white, 6")

Tank #3:
A. Maylandi (black/yellow, 4.5")
C. Borleyi (blue/yellow, 8")

Not sure if Borleyi or Electra similarity (or size) is why you excluded the Maylandi from your one suggestion - so I might need to revise tanks? I'd also be curious of the logic behind your excluding them so I understand better. 

I notice I have a wide variety of sizes... Does this come into play in sorting out tank mates (assuming breeding groups)?

Thanks for your help. Hopefully I'm close to a good start opcorn:


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm a little confused, as I thought you were setting up the 125 or 180. An idea..for a colorful breeding diverse tank in the 180. You can mix it up a thousand ways, and it is trial and error.This will free up all the smaller tanks or add single groups of Peacock or Haps. Or maybe Tangs...lol. Borleyi are beautiful, but can be disruptive, so , sometime they work, sometimes not.

Electra 6" or Pheno Sapphire 10"
Baenchi 5" 
Borleyi 8"
Albino Peacock Jacob group 6-7" or White Lab 5-6"
C. Moori (dimorphic blue) 9" or Acei 6-7" 
Astatotilapia Latifasciata 5" Yellow/white striped . Males are stunning.


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Dawg2012 said:


> Okay. I'm sorry... I confused myself  . I believe the A. Maleri and A. Rubescens are the same fish. My receipt says [Aulonocara sp. "Maleri" "Rubin Red"], which I believe equates to the Rubescens in the Profiles section as it says it is [line bred from the Maleri Island race of Aulonocara sp. ''Stuartgranti Maleri".


That's correct, the reds were linebred from the maleri. However, you can also obtain A. Stuargranti Maleri (Chipoka) which is not the same fish as the Rubescens.



Dawg2012 said:


> Not sure if Borleyi or Electra similarity (or size) is why you excluded the Maylandi from your one suggestion - so I might need to revise tanks? I'd also be curious of the logic behind your excluding them so I understand better.


The Maylandi was excluded because of the temperment. They're not going to color up in a tank with a boisterious male, such as the Borleyi. Best bet would be to try the Electra or Pheno with the Maylandi.



Dawg2012 said:


> I notice I have a wide variety of sizes... Does this come into play in sorting out tank mates (assuming breeding groups)?


The sizes only comes into play when considering the tank foorprint. The Borelyi and Phenos will eventually need a larger tank (72").
Now if you had larger, mature haps that would be a different story.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Floridagirl said:


> I'm a little confused, as I thought you were setting up the 125 or 180. An idea..for a colorful breeding diverse tank in the 180. You can mix it up a thousand ways, and it is trial and error.This will free up all the smaller tanks or add single groups of Peacock or Haps. Or maybe Tangs...lol. Borleyi are beautiful, but can be disruptive, so , sometime they work, sometimes not.
> 
> Electra 6" or Pheno Sapphire 10"
> Baenchi 5"
> ...


Lol! I was a little confused too when i started this topic. I have recently bought a 125 and a 180, and was flirting with making one of them an all male Hap/Peacock. After pondering responses and PM's with some of you, I've decided not to do an all male tank - at least initially. I really like the breading group approach, and if an all male tank develops someday as a result, great.

At this point for the 125 I'm considering a species only Tropheus tank. Love those little guys. For the 180 I was thinking Fronts... I've always been attracted to them as well...

But... I'm intrugued by your suggestion. You'd combine all of these in the 180 and be able to keep fry? I have to say I like the assortment, including the mbuna. Very Very interesting indeed!


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

You can put Fronts and Phenos together...lol Decisions, Decisions. It's always trial and error, but with enough females to males, and different body styles and patterns, you should be able to raise some fry. The only way, however, to be 100% sure to not ever have hybrids is a species only tank.


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

Floridagirl said:


> You can put Fronts and Phenos together.


 

REALLY?!

Oh man. There's my next tank.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

I guess I should say Fronts And Pheno Star Sapphire. I know of several people that have had good Luck with this mix, but the Star SAppires are slow growers as already mentiones, so you might want to get them first.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Dawg2012 said:


> Lol! I was a little confused too when i started this topic. I have recently bought a 125 and a 180, and was flirting with making one of them an all male Hap/Peacock. After pondering responses and PM's with some of you, I've decided not to do an all male tank - at least initially. I really like the breading group approach, and if an all male tank develops someday as a result, great.
> 
> At this point for the 125 I'm considering a species only Tropheus tank. Love those little guys. For the 180 I was thinking Fronts... I've always been attracted to them as well...
> 
> But... I'm intrugued by your suggestion. You'd combine all of these in the 180 and be able to keep fry? I have to say I like the assortment, including the mbuna. Very Very interesting indeed!


Sounds to me like you are going to be a very busy, busy man. I would love to see some pics of these tanks and your new fish Dawg2012 as it sounds like you have already got some great fish in and setting up. As for go do a water change....yep yep yep... =D>


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Got back from vacation to find that one of my Red Fin Borleyi's is starting to get 'his' male colors! Head is turning blue and body/fins are a little more yellow than red, and he's got a nice white stripe running along the tip of his dorsal. Exciting!

I also noticed the tips of his dorsal and anal fins are very pointed compared to the others. Is this part of the change during a male's maturation, or can I look to this as evidence that the others are definitely female?


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

..part of the change.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

The tank is doing great! I'm super happy with it.

One question... a second Red Fin Borleyi is starting to show his male colors... and I think a third is male - so of the six I will likely have three males.

Should I remove the extra males at this point, or let necessity dictate that? Right now there is no aggression between males... or any of the fish for that matter.


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Let things play out. Eventually one (or both) will need to be removed but there's time.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Okay Thanks Danni. I have to say the colored male is a beautiful fish. I can see why they are DJ's favorites.


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

Michael_M said:


> My Phenochilus grows so slow I worry about my eye biter eating him in 6-12 months if his current pace keeps up.
> 
> Buy one as as big as you can get lol.


The fry I grew from one of my breeders grew to about 5-6" in about 14 months. But I had them in a 125 gallon once they reached about 2". I also fed them 2-3 times a day as juveniles so maybe that's why they grew so fast.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Here's some tank pics. I'm very happy with how it turned out.

I just added the vallisneria last week. It really made a difference I think, and will hopefully do some work on nitrates as well. I have a bunch of it in a 75 and Nitrates stay under 10 between biweekly water changes.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Tank looks awesome Dawg....just beautiful really... great job!!!!! and I've been waiting for these  and the fish look wonderful too !!!!!


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Looks sweet!! You should take a video and upload it. Would love to see it in motion.


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