# Chiclids really need an extremely large tank?



## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

My impression was these fish do require a lot of maintenance, but I find it hard to believe you would need a 75 gallon tank for freshwater fish that are as small as these. They aren't much bigger than goldfish. I have a 20 gallon which I realize is kinda small, but I find it suitable for just 2 or 3 fish at a time. I just can't afford to buy a 75 gallon tank or anything. Maybe I got way in over my head. I had chiclids as a child, and a 23 gallon worked just fine. Kept them for years.


----------



## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

when you overgeneralize to the word "cichlid", it becomes hard to offer much help. You could be talking about Angelfish, in which case there are many people who've had them in 23g tanks... but if you're talking about some other species, I'd say no way... 125g or larger.

But... to overgeneralize along the lines of your concern... it's not the size of the fish that's really relevant in cichlid keeping but the size of the territory that a cichlid tries to defend. There are many cichlids that could be kept alone in a 23g tank but you couldn't possibly try to keep 3 in a 69g tank depsite it being 3x the size of the first.

Hope that helps.


----------



## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

Number6 said:


> when you overgeneralize to the word "cichlid", it becomes hard to offer much help. You could be talking about Angelfish, in which case there are many people who've had them in 23g tanks... but if you're talking about some other species, I'd say no way... 125g or larger.
> 
> But... to overgeneralize along the lines of your concern... it's not the size of the fish that's really relevant in cichlid keeping but the size of the territory that a cichlid tries to defend. There are many cichlids that could be kept alone in a 23g tank but you couldn't possibly try to keep 3 in a 69g tank depsite it being 3x the size of the first.
> 
> Hope that helps.


They certainly dont mention this at the pet store. They keep them all in the same tanks and they dont look like they could be any bigger than 20-30 gallons. They all look healthy and happy to me. But whatever.


----------



## under_control (Jan 9, 2008)

THey either don't know or don't care at your pet store. End of story.


----------



## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

RichmondBread said:


> Number6 said:
> 
> 
> > when you overgeneralize to the word "cichlid", it becomes hard to offer much help. You could be talking about Angelfish, in which case there are many people who've had them in 23g tanks... but if you're talking about some other species, I'd say no way... 125g or larger.
> ...


Pet store tanks are not meant for long-term care of the fish. Almost ALL of the cichlids you see in stores are babies - a fraction of the size they are going to get. Keeping them in smaller tanks like this with non-ideal tank mates is okay for the few weeks they're at a store. They're also not usually interested in what's best for the fish - just making money. But we're talking about the long-term care of these fish - in which case, yes, a lot of species need larger tanks.


----------



## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

The ones at the pet shop I see seem pretty much full grown to me. There are some juveniles they have also. But largely, they are the full size fish and they told me I was getting 2 adults.

I do plan on upgrading my tank. Maybe to a 55 gallon and see how that works. I really wish I had known they needed such a large tank beforehand. I guess when I had them as a kid, they seemed fine in my 23 gallon tank .


----------



## overleaf (Jan 18, 2009)

You still haven't told us what type of cichlids you're talking about.

You can get many dwarf species that will do well in the 20G.

When you say they look full grown, what type of cichlid are you talking about, and what size are they? Adult doesn't mean full grown in the fish world, it usually means breeding age.

You can try to keep them in a small tank, they'll let you know when they outgrow it. You'll either find a bunch of dead fish or badly injured fish. That'll be your signal to upgrade the tank.

As far as the LFS keeping the fish in small tanks: They get away with this for a few reasons:

1) The tanks are usually bare, this means there isn't really territory to stake out. 
2) The fish are juveniles.
3) They are kept for a short period of time.


----------



## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

The African chiclids I have are the Malawi variety. One is a bumblebee. The other one is an M. Lombardi. Those are basically the same kind I had before. I do want to take the best care of them, so I am willing to upgrade. I just thought 75 gallons is not for the novice fish enthusiast. I am not a professional fish person, lol


----------



## overleaf (Jan 18, 2009)

The bumble bees can be very aggressive.

The problem with the 20G tanks are their footprint, 24x12. That's not enough space at all.

I think it's important to have a 3 foot length and 18" depth. The height doesn't matter. You can pick up 40 gallon breeders for cheap - buck a gallon usually and they have the 36x18 footprint.

Do you only have 2 fish?


----------



## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

overleaf said:


> The bumble bees can be very aggressive.
> 
> The problem with the 20G tanks are their footprint, 24x12. That's not enough space at all.
> 
> ...


Yes, just two. That makes sense about length vs height. I found a 55 gallon elongated tank on craigslist. Maybe I can go with that.


----------



## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

upgrading would be ideal if ure keeping malawi...i still wouldnt advise keeping either fish u have atm in a 55 however unless u want trouble with fish getting beat up and stressed out.


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Unfortunately, you've also picked up two of the more notorious Malawi mbuna. The bumblebee is a fish that as a male can grow to 8". They can be quite aggressive at that size, and even a 55 gallon might be too small for an aggressive male.

Similarly, M. lombardoi (aka kenyi) can be quite aggressive.

If you really like the idea of keeping Malawian fish, then I would take a step back and learn about which fish might work best with another, and in the final sized tank that you are going to keep. A 4 foot 55 gallon is a nice choice, but I find a 4ft tank, that is 48" x 18" x 18" is ideal to start with.


----------



## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

If I got a 55 long gallon tank wouldnt that be okay? The length I heard is more important than height. I just have 2 in a 20 gallon. I dont want the fish to be stressed out, but I got a little coral rock and that provides a little stress relief when things get heated in there.


----------



## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

the 55 is just not wide enough for the length of the fish u have....a 75G would be ideal


----------



## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

BRANT13 said:


> the 55 is just not wide enough for the length of the fish u have....a 75G would be ideal


My fish are so small. If I get a 75 gallon I wont be able to see them.
Also, I just dont have that kind of money . I read on a chiclid website that 25-30 gallon is plenty to start a chiclid community tank.


----------



## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

dont get me wrong its ok when they are small....but they will very quickly outgrow a tank of that size...u may wake up one day a find 1 fish left in the tank alive because none of them could escape the aggression...then u also has maybe the two most aggressive mbuna on the market...tanks can be cheap ...try looking on craigs list or kiji theyve always got good deals on tanks most of the time they are even complete set ups....We are all just here to help u with getting started....before u start posting about ure fish being injured and fins torn or dying....why would u not like the best for ure fish....itll also help u appreciate all ure hard work when they are living hapily in their suitable environment with as little as stress as possible


----------



## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

BRANT13 said:


> dont get me wrong its ok when they are small....but they will very quickly outgrow a tank of that size...u may wake up one day a find 1 fish left in the tank alive because none of them could escape the aggression...then u also has maybe the two most aggressive mbuna on the market...tanks can be cheap ...try looking on craigs list or kiji theyve always got good deals on tanks most of the time they are even complete set ups....We are all just here to help u with getting started....before u start posting about ure fish being injured and fins torn or dying....why would u not like the best for ure fish....itll also help u appreciate all ure hard work when they are living hapily in their suitable environment with as little as stress as possible


I do want the best for the fish... I just hope I can find something big enough for the money I have. If worse comes to worst, I may give them away to someone who has the proper size tank and restart with fish that are much easier to keep in a smaller tank.

Also, I was thinking, if you put them in a larger tank- wouldnt that actually cause them to get bigger in the first place? I know if you keep a fish by itself it will grow large regardless. Sort of the chicken or the egg.


----------



## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

I've seen a few stores selling 3" Africans as "large" and chargin $30 a piece for them.


> But largely, they are the full size fish and they told me I was getting 2 adults





> My fish are so small. If I get a 75 gallon I wont be able to see them.


You could use a 55gal, I did for a few years, but in the long run you'll end up getting more fish, they'll get bigger and start fighting/or spawning. You'll eventually start adding rocks, the 13" deep tank will turn into an 8" deep tank with big fish. A 75gal would be better, eventually you can upgrade and use the 55 for a sump. I've got a 180 now, my 8" livingstonii just got him a girlfriend and he took over the entire right side of the tank spawning, I had 30 fish crammed into a 2X3' corner.

Think the "fish only grow to the size of the tank" is due to just poor water quality from being in too small of a tank


----------



## RichmondBread (Jun 9, 2009)

Well I'll try. I want them to be happy. Thanks for the suggestions. :thumb:


----------

