# 0 nitrates always



## Matman1110 (Oct 13, 2011)

*** been using my API freshwater master test kit ever since I set up my 125g back in September. I started out with about 9 fish (7 African cichlids, 2 plecos). I've slowly been increasing my stock and currently have 15 cichlids and 2 plecos. The cichlids are all in the 3-5 inch range.

Everytime I test my water I've gotten 0 readings on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Not even a slight positive reading. It's all at zero. I feed my fish twice a day everyday, as much as they can eat in about 1-2 minutes.

The tank does look clear and clean and all the fish look extremely healthy and eat very well. Just was wondering if low readings are normal or if there are faulty API test kits out there.

Ps
I do a 25-50% water change once a month or so.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

shake the 2nd (or 3rd on some test kits) bottle when using nitrate tests. Do it as the instructions say.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

if you are feeding twice a day,with what they can eat in two minutes,I would say thats overfeeding,and there is no way your nitrates are zero,if you are changing water once a month
if you haven't been shaking the vile and regents as directed your regents may be spoiled ,you really need to shake them as directed


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Matman1110 said:


> The tank does look clear and clean


Nitrates are "clear and clean" looking so don't go by this. I agree that you either need to shake longer or more vigorously, or you need a new test kit.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

re-read the instructions


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi,

Something is wrong, with the long water change cycles, moderately-high feeding. I would expect at-least some nitrates.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> Hi,
> 
> Something is wrong, with the long water change cycles, moderately-high feeding. I would expect at-least some nitrates.


Totally agree. If you are only doing 50% once a month you should get nitrates and probably fairly high nitrates especially feeding twice a day with 15 3" fish.

I do 70% water changes every 4 days and get readings between 10-40

I would also do as the above posters mentioned and make sure to shake the bottle REALLY well especially the second bottle. I shake it for twice as long as the directions indicate.


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## Matman1110 (Oct 13, 2011)

Ok guys thanks. I completely didn't read the instructions and was doing it very wrong. I just did a test the correct way and the color of the tube is red (between 80-160 ppm). I'm assuming this is way too much. Also 40 ppm looks the same as 80 ppm on the test chart.

How often and how much water should I be changing?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

IMO 40ppm is too high, although the kit says it is safe.

Change 50% of the water and see what the new reading is.

For example, if the new reading is 80ppm then you will know it was 160ppm before and you can change 50% again in a couple of days.

For steady state, change about 50% weekly. If that does not keep your nitrates down to around 20ppm before the change and 10ppm after the change, then change more frequently or a larger percentage.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Well the amount is often debated but usually I stick with 25% weekly. Testing the water will provide the answers to whether you should be adjusting this or not.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Matman1110 said:


> Ok guys thanks. I completely didn't read the instructions and was doing it very wrong. I just did a test the correct way and the color of the tube is red (between 80-160 ppm). I'm assuming this is way too much. Also 40 ppm looks the same as 80 ppm on the test chart.
> 
> How often and how much water should I be changing?


80-160 is what I figured yours should be with your current load and water changes.

Water changes a lot depends on your load, feedings, filtration, etc..

Like I said I do 70% every 4 days. You would be good doing 50% weekly I would think and also check your nitrates before you do your water changes and then the day after to see the change. If I had 80-160 I would do a large water change starting tonight. Then check tomorrow and if still high do another one tomorrow or the next day until they are at 40 or below.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

DJRansome said:


> IMO 40ppm is too high, although the kit says it is safe.
> 
> Change 50% of the water and see what the new reading is.
> 
> ...


Oops...must have typed this while I was typing. I would do this as well. 50% starting tonight and check in a couple days. Shoot for 40 or below. I would not let it go higher than 40.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

13razorbackfan said:


> Oops...must have typed this while I was typing.


A 70% change would be good as well. I settled on 50% just for the ease of finding out what the actual, before-change nitrate reading was.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

DJRansome said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > Oops...must have typed this while I was typing.
> ...


Yeah...much easier to divide by 2. If his nitrates are really as high as 160 and his tap water is close enough to his tank water(chemistry wise) then I would do 70% for sure. If not then 50% today followed by waiting 24hours to test again followed by another 50%, etc...until nitrates are under 40.

Matman1110.....do a 50% water change tonight.

Test 24hrs later again for nitrates.

Do another 50% after that then wait another 24hrs and test again. If still at or around 40 then do another 50% and wait a few days and test again. You want to get to a point where anytime you are approaching 40ppm nitrates you do at least if not more than a 50% water change.

I would settle on a routine of 50-70% once a week with your load and feeding schedule.

I do 70% every 4 days and my fish LOVE it. It also really helps them heal nipped fins and other scrapes.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I feed my fish twice a day everyday, as much as they can eat in about 1-2 minutes.


This is a common recommendation seen, particularly from the makers of the food, but too much IME. Once per day is enough. There's also a big difference between cleaning it up in 1 minute or 2 minutes. I'd go for something more like 30-45 seconds, but it can vary with different fish and different types of food, so no hard and fast rules can really apply. I feed pellets and make sure each fish can get several pellets. If they get that, I know they'll do fine.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

I do 25-30% weekly and 50% every few changes when I feel like it. If you don't do more than a 50% at least once in a while you will always be falling behind and the nitrates rising.


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## Matman1110 (Oct 13, 2011)

Great thank you all for the tips. My only concern with doing so much water changing is how that will effect the pH of the water. The pH of the tank is about 8.2 and I know my tap is lower than that. I have pH buffer but doing so much water changes I feel like I'm gonna have to keep making trips to the store for buffer. I do have an African cichlid substrate mix that buffers the water though aswell. Is there a cheap easy way to keep the pH high the way they like it?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Matman1110 said:


> Great thank you all for the tips. My only concern with doing so much water changing is how that will effect the pH of the water. The pH of the tank is about 8.2 and I know my tap is lower than that. I have pH buffer but doing so much water changes I feel like I'm gonna have to keep making trips to the store for buffer. I do have an African cichlid substrate mix that buffers the water though aswell. Is there a cheap easy way to keep the pH high the way they like it?


Don't worry about your pH if it is above 7. Stable pH is MUCH better than trying to hit it on the nose. If your tap is above 7 you are fine. Now...here is the thing. I would only do 25% daily until your nitrates are down WITHOUT adding any buffers. You don't want to bring down your pH too fast while trying to lower your nitrates. I would not worry about your pH right now and focus more on lowering your nitrates.

Your nitrates need to come down to 40 at the highest. I would test your tap and if it is anything over low 7's then I would not add anything to your water. Again...stable is MUCH better that trying to hit 8.2 or whatever.

Do 25% water change tonight then test 24 hours later then do another 25% water change then test 24 hours later and keep doing this until your test shows 40 or less then settle on doing 50% once weekly. If you are going to feed as often as you are and the fish are the size and in numbers you describe you would be good if you did 50% every week and your fish will be happy. :thumb:


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## Matman1110 (Oct 13, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> Matman1110 said:
> 
> 
> > Great thank you all for the tips. My only concern with doing so much water changing is how that will effect the pH of the water. The pH of the tank is about 8.2 and I know my tap is lower than that. I have pH buffer but doing so much water changes I feel like I'm gonna have to keep making trips to the store for buffer. I do have an African cichlid substrate mix that buffers the water though aswell. Is there a cheap easy way to keep the pH high the way they like it?
> ...


Thank you again.

One more question, should I vacuume the gravel everytime I do a water change or is that not necessary?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Every time. Some people do half each time to preserve the beneficial bacteria in the substrate, but I have never had a problem vacuuming it all every week.


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

I've found that if I cut back on food, they don't spawn as often or grow as quickly, but the nitrates don't rise very quickly either. How much I feed them depends on what I'm trying to accomplish. At the moment, I don't need fry and don't care how fast they grow.

Do you have a good system for changing water?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Don't worry about your pH if it is above 7. Stable pH is MUCH better than trying to hit it on the nose. If your tap is above 7 you are fine. Now...here is the thing. I would only do 25% daily until your nitrates are down WITHOUT adding any buffers. You don't want to bring down your pH too fast while trying to lower your nitrates. I would not worry about your pH right now and focus more on lowering your nitrates.
> 
> Your nitrates need to come down to 40 at the highest. I would test your tap and if it is anything over low 7's then I would not add anything to your water. Again...stable is MUCH better that trying to hit 8.2 or whatever.


You've got the right idea, sort of. KH is what stabilizes pH. You can't assume if pH is above 7, then KH is adequate enough to keep it there. It may not be. Check the KH out of the tap and the tank. Keep KH up to about 8 or so and let pH fall where it well. You should ALWAYS keep an eye on KH when doing water changes. Ignore pH and let it fall where it will. Buffering will put it into an 'OK' range and stabilize it.



> I have pH buffer but doing so much water changes I feel like I'm gonna have to keep making trips to the store for buffer. I do have an African cichlid substrate mix that buffers the water though aswell. Is there a cheap easy way to keep the pH high the way they like it?


Yes, get some baking soda in bulk. Don't buy the commercial buffers from the local shops.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

prov356 said:


> > Don't worry about your pH if it is above 7. Stable pH is MUCH better than trying to hit it on the nose. If your tap is above 7 you are fine. Now...here is the thing. I would only do 25% daily until your nitrates are down WITHOUT adding any buffers. You don't want to bring down your pH too fast while trying to lower your nitrates. I would not worry about your pH right now and focus more on lowering your nitrates.
> >
> > Your nitrates need to come down to 40 at the highest. I would test your tap and if it is anything over low 7's then I would not add anything to your water. Again...stable is MUCH better that trying to hit 8.2 or whatever.
> 
> ...


Prov356 (Tim), is well educated in the art of tank buffering / fish keeping and provided great advice to me, which on the offset of just being within a month, has shown great results within my African tank.

The ability to measure your tanks parameters in-regards to African Tanks is a must, this is the difference between being lucky and being a decent aquarist.


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## Dogtanian (Jan 27, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> Like I said I do 70% every 4 days. You would be good doing 50% weekly I would think and also check your nitrates before you do your water changes and then the day after to see the change. If I had 80-160 I would do a large water change starting tonight. Then check tomorrow and if still high do another one tomorrow or the next day until they are at 40 or below.


Wow! You like doing water changes. :thumb:

I would just like to add a point about water changes here in the UK. In most places, the nitrates in the tap water are already at around 25ppm. It's slightly annoying, but keeping the levels below 40ppm is very time consuming.

I change 50% a week and this does keep them steady at around 30ppm. The fish are colourful and guests always comment on how healthy they look.

On the plus side, due the geography of the bed rock, water from the tap is around 7.8 ph with a good GH, requiring minimal buffering.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Sounds like the perfect tank for plants. :thumb:


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi,

Do 50% water changes daily until you get the ppm below 40, then return a normal adjustment, measure and insure your water change is effective.

When was the last time you changed your filters?


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## Dogtanian (Jan 27, 2011)

tim_s said:


> When was the last time you changed your filters?


 opcorn:


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