# New, need some advice.



## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

First off I am planning on purchasing a 75 gallon rectangular glass tank, or a 95 gallon glass wave tank.

I plan on getting some african cichlids, but I am unsure what else I can put in the tank. Can africans be mixed with N.W. cichlids or other types of cichlids. What about other fish? Thanks in advance.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

No, Africans cannot be mixed with New World cichlids. With that nice big tank, you can go in a variety of directions. You might consider an all male peacock/hap tank with some synodontis. Check out the profiles to see what you like. You could also do a very colorful mbuna tank, being careful with your stocking to avoid too much aggression. The cookie-cuutters can also give you some ideas if you are interested in breeding groups.


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## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

are haps and peacocks only from lake malawi? Are you able to mix cichlids from different african lakes, rivers? I have been doing a lot of research but I have got a lot of conflicting information. Also can I put fish like plecos, bichirs, and sharks in with malawi cichlids? Thanks in advance.


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

Welcome to C-F Brian.

Fish from different regions can be mixed, but you have to be very careful about diet, water requirements, and temperament. Mixing New World and Old World cichlids can be very problematic. Being some what of a purist, I prefer to keep tanks with fish from the same lake. What you really need to do is figure out what fish you really want, and then build around that. There are far too many possibilities to list them all here.


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## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

Dave said:


> Welcome to C-F Brian.
> 
> Fish from different regions can be mixed, but you have to be very careful about diet, water requirements, and temperament. Mixing New World and Old World cichlids can be very problematic. Being some what of a purist, I prefer to keep tanks with fish from the same lake. What you really need to do is figure out what fish you really want, and then build around that. There are far too many possibilities to list them all here.


Thanks. There are a lot of nice looking haps and peacocks. I am unsure which ones are readily availably and which ones are more rare though.


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

Availablility is something you will have to determine my calling around, posting in the Trading Post, or inquiring with online suppliers.

Are you interested in an all male show tank, or do you want to breed? Keep in mind, that when these guys do breed, you can be quickly overrun with fry.


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## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

Dave said:


> Availablility is something you will have to determine my calling around, posting in the Trading Post, or inquiring with online suppliers.
> 
> Are you interested in an all male show tank, or do you want to breed? Keep in mind, that when these guys do breed, you can be quickly overrun with fry.


I hadnt given any though to the all male vs breeding, I suppose I would want to go all male since I am new to this. So far I havent found any good local fish stores, the ones I have been to dont really have a wide selection of african cichlids, or they just label them as "african cichlid". A few of the stores I have been to have told me that you can just put any cichlids together.


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

Finding "assorted cichilds" or being advised that you can put any cichilds together is the standard fair for local fish stores (LFS) that really do not know much about cichlids. I would not use these places as a source of information, nor stock. Once you become more comfortable you should be able to judge for your self about the quality of stock.

Your options that are left to you are to post in the Trading Post, look for local fish clubs, or check out some online distributors.

For the all male tank you might try taking a look at our library.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/a ... malawi.php


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## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

Dave said:


> Finding "assorted cichilds" or being advised that you can put any cichilds together is the standard fair for local fish stores (LFS) that really do not know much about cichlids. I would not use these places as a source of information, nor stock. Once you become more comfortable you should be able to judge for your self about the quality of stock.
> 
> Your options that are left to you are to post in the Trading Post, look for local fish clubs, or check out some online distributors.
> 
> ...


Thanks again. So far every LFS *** been to, here in Las Vegas, have all been about the same as far as the knowledge of cichlids goes. I will probably order online, I have found some very good online stores in the past couple days.


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## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

This is probably a dumb question, and I have tried to find the answer, but why cant new worlds and africans be mixed? If they had similar needs as far as water temp., ph., kh., etc then why wouldnt it work? Is it due to different temperaments of the fish or what? Thanks again for the help so far.


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## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

alot of the time it is a matter of temperments. IME africans are much stronger swimmers and will outwork old worlds for food. I think africans are smarter too (dont know why, just alot of my SAs are dumb).

As a noob myself, i advise you to go with fish like yellow labs, Pseudotropheus acei, rusties, and saulosi. Any of those fish can live together, all have great colors, tempers, and are really forgiving when it comes to new aquarist mistakes.

Alot of aggression is caused by poor M/F ratios. there should be one male for every two or three females. So make sure to keep that in mind when ordering fish. If the person you're ordering from hasnt sexed them yet, tell them to.

Do research first, I got my tank on boxing day and set it up two months ago

Good luck, a month with africans and its already been rewarding for me.


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## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

BurgerKing said:


> alot of the time it is a matter of temperments. IME africans are much stronger swimmers and will outwork old worlds for food. I think africans are smarter too (dont know why, just alot of my SAs are dumb).
> 
> As a noob myself, i advise you to go with fish like yellow labs, Pseudotropheus acei, rusties, and saulosi. Any of those fish can live together, all have great colors, tempers, and are really forgiving when it comes to new aquarist mistakes.
> 
> ...


Thanks. The fish you listed are mbunu arent they? I thought mbunu are supposed to be more aggressive than haps and peacocks. I have been doing lots of research but there is soooo much to absorb and I have seen conflicting information as well.


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

What you need to know are the beginner mistakes so you can avoid them. Many of us have learned the hard way so you are lucky to have found this forum with all the experiences of others.

Some common beginner mistakes Iâ€™ve noticed:
1) The need to cycle a tank before adding fish or at least start with one very hardy fish until the tank cycles.
2) Putting too much trust in the fish store adviceâ€"as you may already have noticed.
3) Buying fish because they look good without considering what size they will grow to, what other fish they will get along with and, if the temperature and water requirements will work for all the fish in the tank.
4) Not using a water conditioner on their tap water.
5) Not buying or using test kits.
6) Not doing regular water changes.
7) Overstocking tanks.
8) Over-cleaning that results in killing the good bacteria so the tank loses its cycle
9) Keeping a few medicines around so if fish have problems they can be treated immediately

I'm sure others can add their two cents as far as beginner mistakes to avoid.


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## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

lotsofish said:


> What you need to know are the beginner mistakes so you can avoid them. Many of us have learned the hard way so you are lucky to have found this forum with all the experiences of others.
> 
> Some common beginner mistakes Iâ€™ve noticed:
> 1) The need to cycle a tank before adding fish or at least start with one very hardy fish until the tank cycles.
> ...


Thank you. I was told to do 25% water changes weekly, is this accurate? I was also told to cycle the tank with feeder fish for 7 days, is this accurate?


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## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

I got the tank and stand tonight. Its 75 gallons. I need some advice on filters though. Also what happens if I may have done something really dumb like say......... forgetting to rinse the gravel before I put it in? Thanks again everyone.


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Welcome to C-F Brian! you will find an almost overwelming amount of info in our "Library". You can find the button on the top right of this page... as far as LFS in your area there are for listed in our "Reviews" section, *HERE* two of them have good reviews.
I doubt you could make a mistake that hasn't already happened to someone else.


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## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

Hoosier Tank said:


> Welcome to C-F Brian! you will find an almost overwelming amount of info in our "Library". You can find the button on the top right of this page... as far as LFS in your area there are for listed in our "Reviews" section, *HERE* two of them have good reviews.
> I doubt you could make a mistake that hasn't already happened to someone else.


Thanks Hoosier. Well I already made a mistake like I said in my last post, I forgot to wash the gravel. A bunch of stuff floated to the top and I vacuumed it all out with the gravel vac and then basically drained the whole thing. Do I need to take all the gravel out, wash them, refill it and then replace the gravel? What should I do?


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

Your water changes should be a minimum of 25% per week, but it will depend on your nitrate levels.

For your gravel, I would consider removing it and washing it out. Then put it back in the tank and fill the tank partially. If you still see stuff floating around, drain and fill again. You may not remove everything, but as much out as you can.

For filtration, that is entirely up to you. You can go with sponge filters, HOB (hang on back) filters like Aquaclear, or cannisters like Eheim. You want to have enough water flow throught he filters to turn your tank over several times per hour. There is a lot of debate on how many times this should be, but 5X is a good target number. This will help factor in that many companies rate the flow on their filters when they are running wide open, perhaps even with out filters. You really cannot over filter, but you can underfilter.

For cycling your filters (you really aren't cycling the tank or the water, it is the filters), this takes 4-6 weeks. You can do it with fish, or you can use the fishless method. You can find the latter in the library. Basically, you want to keep the ammonia levels up so that the bacteria will establish in your filters. When the filters can quickly convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, then your tank is cycled. You will need to buy those test kits.


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## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

Dave said:


> Your water changes should be a minimum of 25% per week, but it will depend on your nitrate levels.
> 
> For your gravel, I would consider removing it and washing it out. Then put it back in the tank and fill the tank partially. If you still see stuff floating around, drain and fill again. You may not remove everything, but as much out as you can.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I have to of the 70 series aquaclear filters, but havent opened them yet. Combined 
they should filter 600 gal/hour.

As for the gravel I do not know how I will remove 75 pounds of gravel now. Nothing else is floating up to the top though, I have vacuumed and drained it 2 times now and I dont see anymore floating particles, will I most likely be ok? Thanks again everyone.


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

> I need some advice on filters though. Also what happens if I may have done something really dumb like say......... forgetting to rinse the gravel before I put it in?


I like the Emperor filters used with Bio-3 media: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=13371 
I think they would be a good choice for a beginner because they are easy to set up and maintain. Many on the forum like the AquaClears and I've heard good things about the newly designed Whisper filters. You'll have to look at what's affordable, available and fits your lifestyle.

If you didn't rinse the gravel, you are likely to get particulate matter dirtying the water. It shouldn't be harmful but if your filter doesn't take it out use a product called "Clarity". You will want to change the filter cartridge after the water clears.

25% weekly changes should be fine if the tank isn't overstocked. If you start getting high nitrate readings, you'll need to change more water so the nitrate level doesn't get too high.

The "Python" system
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... catid=3910
is a great at making your water changes easier.


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## BrianR (Aug 19, 2008)

lotsofish said:


> > I need some advice on filters though. Also what happens if I may have done something really dumb like say......... forgetting to rinse the gravel before I put it in?
> 
> 
> I like the Emperor filters used with Bio-3 media: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=13371
> ...


Thanks. Like I said I already have 2 of the aquaclears, if they work well then there is no sense in returning them.

Thanks for the tips on the gravel, I got all the debris clean out and the water looks nice and clear.

I bought something very similar to the "python" system at walmart, its almost exactly the same except a different color, about the same price too. It was called Lee's Ultimate Gravel Vac.


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