# Plumbing the Sump Return--Hard PVC or Soft Tubing?



## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

I have a thread going on a 100G that I am building into a dead space in my family room/living room wall. Space is tight but not impossible.

I am running a 60G sump with a return powered by a MAg 24 running undersand jets for circulation, nothing will be visible inside the tank except the tips of the jets.

Coming off the Mag pump, I will use 1 1/2" PVC to a 1 1/2 T fitting, splitting into a one inch ball valved line that normally feeds, via a 1" vinyl hose, back into the pump to both tame the jets a bit and to push water through a micron sock. At water changes, this line will stretch outside the sump to a nearby drain.

The other line will remain 1.5, ending with a 1 1/2 PVC line behind the background that goes down to the 3/4 inch jet line and jets beneath the substrate.

I assumed I was going to go vinyl above the 1 1/2 ball valve, then back to PVC at the tank edge. I am not sure why I thought that, probably the wiggle room the vinyl supposedly gives you, but if you've ever worked with large diameter vinyl, it's not really that flexible, it retains its curve, etc. I am re thinking my decision to switch back and forth.

The closet is pretty cramped, the equipment is going to end up where it needs to be with little wiggle room. I have enough PVC to go all PVC, I have adapters and anough 1.5 vinyl to use that as well. We are talking about probably a 2-3 foot run between the top of the sump and the top of the main tank, what say you?

I guess the one thing that scares me is the 1 1/2 is not easily cut with the hand PVC cutter tools. If I glue it in with hard lines, how hard will it be to break down when the pump takes a dump? That seems to tip the scales in favor of a section of soft tubing to pull it apart.

Am I better off either way?


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## ABFish (Oct 27, 2011)

I would use at least some vinyl at the pumps just to cut down vibration. I just plumbed my first sump with all hard pipe and the vibration noise was awful. I searched the posts here and found the same tip, use a section of vinyl to separate the pumps from the pvc. It cut down the noise fairly significantly.


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## Clink51 (Aug 4, 2011)

personally i would do straight PVC, with the exception of the "out" from the tank. since the space is tiny and confined, you can easily strap the pvc to a wall or beam or joist and vibration noice will be less PLUS it looks neater


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

That's what I was thinking, to go ahead and use PVC and strap it down. The downside is if there is ever a problem, I need to cut it off and basically buy new parts, the ball valve was kind of expensive. I guess if I was smart when i cut it I could sleeve it back in at least one time. Given my luck with mag pumps, I do not forsee frequently sawing out the pump more than once.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

I would recommend using vinyl tubing or flexible PVC tubing. It's worth it.... Just remember to add the Unions in the lines so that you can take them off if you need to.

Vinyl tubing does retain its shape quite well when cold. To make it flexible and to set it in a position that you desire all you have to do is heat it up a bit until it becomes flexible and set it in the position you like.

I had to work with 1 1/4" vinyl clear tubing and 1 1/2" flexible PVC tubing. All I did was heat them up over my gas burner stove, constantly moving them over the flame. Keep the 1 - 2 inches away and always keep moving them back and forth as well as turning the tubes so that they don't get to hot. Remember to be safe and use gloves! Once they are warm you can set them to the position you want and let them cool in that position.

Back side view: 









Front View: I modified the one 1 1/2" flexible PVC tube from the picture above when I added my new sump, shown on the left. On the right you can barely see how I have the pumps hooked up to the clear (now brownish) piping. I added a sump check valve off the pump discharge to prevent back flow of water from the tank.


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

Is there an advantage to soft tubing? I guess that's my point. I have to use some PVC to get the line up and out of the sump, and to hold the ball valves and T fitting.

After that, it's about 2.5 feet to the tank edge. I can do this either way, I have 1.5 tubing and PVC to spare. I need to go back to PVC at the tank edge.

My cons for the soft are:

Not really easy to work with, I need a straight run, I will try heating it, but...
Creates two more potential leak areas, at both seams.
Does not look as neatly plumbed (although, Agridiron, yours looks super clean)

What are the pros to counter these?

The PVC, on the other hand, is a bit harder to work with, but it's basically a straight vertical shot.
Needs to be glued and is permanent/cannot easily be broken down
Measurements need to be carefully taken to ensure good fit
May be a bit louder, strapping down will minimize, as will foam mount for pump

Still in the air, Agridiron, pros for the vinyl? Again, I already bought it and the 1.5 fittings to tranfer bakc and forth, I am just making sure I do this correctly and the best way.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

CITADELGRAD87 said:


> Is there an advantage to soft tubing? I guess that's my point. I have to use some PVC to get the line up and out of the sump, and to hold the ball valves and T fitting.
> 
> After that, it's about 2.5 feet to the tank edge. I can do this either way, I have 1.5 tubing and PVC to spare. I need to go back to PVC at the tank edge.
> 
> ...


If you have room & can make straight runs, use PVC.. If you have tight areas and tight radius/angles to avoid, use vinyl. Vinyl basically gives you some flexibility so you can avoid a boatload of 90's, 45's, etc..

Vinyl works well on the drops from a overflow where it has to bend at 90 degrees and into your sump. Anywhere you have a hard 90 to make on the input side of you sump - it is best to go with vinyl or flexible PVC. Having a hard bend in the drain can cause pockets of air to form and "can" introduce ALOT of noise in your plumbing..

Just my $.02


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