# Help me with my tank plan and rate my set up please.



## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

*I'm getting back into the hobby and want to do it right. I’m double the original budget already (was going to go 75gl) so I’m hoping I have a good plan.*

Tank: 130-gallon 72x24x24 w/ glass top

Background: Universal rocks Texas wall in brown and a few stacking rocks (may do real or fake driftwood depending on cleanup crew and open space) Texas Wall Background | Universal Rocks

Filters: 2x fx6

Heater 2x Jager 300w with an inkbird

Lighting: Current USA Serene sun RGB+w

160 lb of African Cichlid Mix sand

I’m thinking 20-25 male Peacocks and 1-2 Pleco or Synodontis



What do you think?

Pleco vs Synodontis?

I read the “jake’s” like some rockwork is this true?

Ideas for online dealers. I had planned on <vendor name removed> but have seen some negative reviews lately.

Hope to bring you guys along on the journey for the next six months. Thank you in advance.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Looks good to me. For a tank this nice though, I would strongly recommend you at least go in-line (Canister discharge flow) with those electric heaters.

Electric Heaters look so much better - when you don't see them!
In-line electric heaters work at a completely different level of heating efficiency than the ones you just plunk down into the water of your tank.
-
Then, there is the question of just how far you are willing to go with this aquarium build project. I mean, if you REALLY want to take this thing to the 'next level'? (Public Display - Municipal), how do you feel about drilling the glass and using adapted bulkhead fittings for your canister filter(s)? Going 'all in' with an undergravel jet system built and installed on the bottom of the tank?


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Auballagh said:


> Looks good to me. For a tank this nice though, I would strongly recommend you at least go in-line (Canister discharge flow) with those electric heaters.
> 
> Electric Heaters look so much better - when you don't see them!
> In-line electric heaters work at a completely different level of heating efficiency than the ones you just plunk down into the water of your tank.
> ...


Both heaters will be behind the background. What's inline mean?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The heaters and the intakes should be behind the background. In line means the heater is fitted into the line of tubing that returns water to the tank. No way around.

Since all male is one of each and no look-alike fish...it is hard to find 20 peacocks that look nothing alike. One red, one blue, one yellow and they start looking alike. People usually stock haps as well. 

You can have 2 BN plecos to clean the glass and 5 Synodontis (multipunctatus or lucipinnis) as well.

I would do pool filter sand instead of African Cichlid Mix.

Private message sent for vendor.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Inline means that the electric heater is literally mounted 'inline' on the discharge hose of the canister filter.
Here are couple different types.








- or - 








The strong discharge water flow of the canister filter constantly around the heating element of the inline heater, enhances it's efficiency a huge amount by comparison with 'normal' submersible electric heaters. Additionally, all wiring and the inline electric heater itself are located completely out of site, with the canister filter.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Auballagh said:


> Inline means that the electric heater is literally mounted 'inline' on the discharge hose of the canister filter.
> Here are couple different types.
> View attachment 140522
> 
> ...


Would I still run a Inkbird?


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

DJRansome said:


> The heaters and the intakes should be behind the background. In line means the heater is fitted into the line of tubing that returns water to the tank. No way around.
> 
> Since all male is one of each and no look-alike fish...it is hard to find 20 peacocks that look nothing alike. One red, one blue, one yellow and they start looking alike. People usually stock haps as well.
> 
> ...


Can I have 2 males of each? I like a couple haps but worry they will get too big. As long as they don't beat up the peacocks I'm down to look at that option. I really like the giraffe hap. I dont plan to have a lot of caves so was thinking one spotted Syno. Will that be enough? or maybe a bristle nose placo too.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What tends to happen with 2 males is they focus on each other and one is killed. Also one will be colorful and the other will be drab. There are lots of haps that mature <= six inches. You don't need 20 fish...I like 18 in a 72" tank.

The giraffe (Nimbochromis venustus) is a large fish but would be OK in a 72" tank. If you stock this or other larger haps then consider reducing the number of fish in the tank.

Synodontis multipunctatus and lucipinnis are both social fish that like to be in groups else they will hide. Syno's are expensive and live for 30 plus years...don't get them if you just need a clean up crew...just feed less. There are Synodontis that are solitary, but not sure they will be what you want in the tank and you will not see them.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Hmmmmm.....


The Glassfields said:


> Would I still run a Inkbird?


Sure! Using a programmable, electronic heater controller for the aquarium should work just fine to connect up to both of those in-line, electric heaters. It'll actually just work the same way - just with MUCH more efficient ($$$) heating to control.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

DJRansome said:


> What tends to happen with 2 males is they focus on each other and one is killed. Also one will be colorful and the other will be drab. There are lots of haps that mature <= six inches. You don't need 20 fish...I like 18 in a 72" tank.
> 
> The giraffe (Nimbochromis venustus) is a large fish but would be OK in a 72" tank. If you stock this or other larger haps then consider reducing the number of fish in the tank.
> 
> Synodontis multipunctatus and lucipinnis are both social fish that like to be in groups else they will hide. Syno's are expensive and live for 30 plus years...don't get them if you just need a clean up crew...just feed less. There are Synodontis that are solitary, but not sure they will be what you want in the tank and you will not see them.


The two Haps that catch my eye are the Giraffe and Star Sapphire. looking at a (mix 6 package) haps with those, then a mix 6 peacock, albino dragon, lemon Jake, Dragon Blood, Yellow Benja, and Otter point Jake for a total of 19ish. Anything look completely off? I know I won't get everyone I want but a starting point. As far as stocking I plan to cycle it 6 weeks then the two 6 packs and fill in the colors I'm missing a month later or as I can get them in a group of at least 3 at a time.

Can I do plecos without drift wood? Ill have one larger cave but not a lot of rockwork. Also looking at the pot a dot Syno.

Thank you for all the help so far.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Your peacocks tend to be aggressive being hybrids or jakes. The venustus is aggressive. The star sapphire is not and I would not add him to this tank. 

I would skip the angelicus (polka dot syno) in this tank as it is large and may become aggressive with age...it is a riverine syno as opposed to one from the rift lakes.

Six pack? You want to choose each species and not accept a mix created by the vendor.

You are talking all-male and not mixed gender, correct? You want only one peacock species/tank if you are going mixed gender.

Have an extra tank or several for quarantine and holding for fish that need to be rehomed. All male is hit or miss.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

DJRansome said:


> Your peacocks tend to be aggressive being hybrids or jakes. The venustus is aggressive. The star sapphire is not and I would not add him to this tank.
> 
> I would skip the angelicus (polka dot syno) in this tank as it is large and may become aggressive with age...it is a riverine syno as opposed to one from the rift lakes.
> 
> ...


Is there a place to see which ones are "aggressive"? They all are labeled that way since compared to most fish they are. I just want the best mix of color possible, so if there is a less aggressive way to mix them. I thought the all male vendor packs would be a good way to fill and keep the cost down. I'm not sure I'm prepared to spend $40-$60 (seems to be the going rate for 2-3 inch males on multiple sites) per fish, for 20-25 fish.

I would like a clean up crew for Alge and to clean the sand. I was looking at bristle nose plecos or something that looked cool and swam along the bottom and only went a different direction to keep from using real driftwood.

Once again thank you for the info.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Vendor packs are good for the vendor to move merchandise on hand...not always for the fishkeeper. If they don't get along and you have to rehome some or the fish get sick/die...any savings will be lost. Maybe consider mixed gender? $8 per fish and every fish colorful is more affordable.

Algae is controlled by not overfeeding and water quality and light levels. The BN will help with the glass, but you will still have to scrape weekly because the algae in between their bite marks on the glass will still be there.

What ends up on the sand is rarely algae but rather excess food and feces. If you feed less that solves the excess food problem. Synodontis and plecos do not eat fish feces...so that is removed by filtration and/or vacuuming the sand.

Your choices so far are all on the aggressive side except the benga and the star sapphire. The other fish on your list can get along fine, but will do better with other aggressive haps and peacocks in your quest to get all the males to color (100% may not be achievable but you can probably get 80% with some tinkering over the first 2 years).


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## nashihoude (Dec 25, 2021)

It's good for the fishes I think. But you can add aquarium decoration on it like aquarium air stone for density bubble, aquatic plants is great too. And a submersible aquarium light or a programmable led fish tank lights is more amazing.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

nashihoude said:


> It's good for the fishes I think. But you can add aquarium decoration on it like aquarium air stone for density bubble, aquatic plants is great too. And a submersible aquarium light or a programmable led fish tank lights is more amazing.


IM not a big fan of plants and I like the rocky look. I need to figure out a way to help the transition of the rock into the sand. My lights on top are programable led. They have a white background you can put on the tank and a light that shines on it making the background change colors or look like the sun is going down. It's pretty neat but my 3d background won't allow it to work.


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## nashihoude (Dec 25, 2021)

The Glassfields said:


> IM not a big fan of plants and I like the rocky look. I need to figure out a way to help the transition of the rock into the sand. My lights on top are programable led. They have a white background you can put on the tank and a light that shines on it making the background change colors or look like the sun is going down. It's pretty neat but my 3d background won't allow it to work.


It seems your lighting is well, but you can consider to get a light with bracket, which can stip-on the tank edge as a hood, to shine to the 3d background.


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## JW_Freshwater_Addict (Jan 3, 2022)

The Glassfields said:


> *I'm getting back into the hobby and want to do it right. I’m double the original budget already (was going to go 75gl) so I’m hoping I have a good plan.*
> 
> Tank: 130-gallon 72x24x24 w/ glass top
> 
> ...


***Equipment list looks good. If you are going African Cichlids, from my experience, try not to duplicate species. There are hundreds if not thousands of African Cichlid species. I've found that adding two, three, or four of the same species creates extra aggression between them. Enjoy the process and keep good patience.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)




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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Nice looking tank and stand, congrats!

Just a quick observation, if you think you may ever decide to add a power filter (HOB) to your tank, make sure you have enough clearance to install and remove it. You should be good since there is a window behind the tank.

Also, are you sure the stand is not setting on the carpet tack strip? You'll see notice that when you level the tank/stand as it will tip forward a bit.


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## nashihoude (Dec 25, 2021)

The Glassfields said:


> View attachment 140758


Nice looking, what about your rocky?


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Deeda said:


> Nice looking tank and stand, congrats!
> 
> Just a quick observation, if you think you may ever decide to add a power filter (HOB) to your tank, make sure you have enough clearance to install and remove it. You should be good since there is a window behind the tank.
> 
> Also, are you sure the stand is not setting on the carpet tack strip? You'll see notice that when you level the tank/stand as it will tip forward a bit.


its 5" from the wall and I shimmed it to be level. Never thought to check level on a tank before. It wasn't off by much but now's the time to do it.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

nashihoude said:


> Nice looking, what about your rocky?


Background will be here next week. Have some driftwood soaking and rocks coming. I'm still torn on looks and hiding spots vs places for them to get territorial over.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Is 5 inches from the wall enough?


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## Aussieman57 (Dec 18, 2021)

The Glassfields said:


> its 5" from the wall and I shimmed it to be level. Never thought to check level on a tank before. It wasn't off by much but now's the time to do it.


If you shimmed the stand before water was in the tank you may notice your level changed after you add 1000 pounds or so of water to it. Make sure you check your level after the water is in.


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## nashihoude (Dec 25, 2021)

The Glassfields said:


> Background will be here next week. Have some driftwood soaking and rocks coming. I'm still torn on looks and hiding spots vs places for them to get territorial over.


how about to set a decoration tree trunk for your guppies? which can separate and give more safe hiding spots for them. it likes another home underwater for them to get territorial over. I can't take a pic of mine now. my trunk is get from hygger store (it can't post link )and my guppies plays very fun with it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think OP is considering having NO hiding places to eliminate territorial disputes. Verus having lots of them which would be more natural and give the fish safe places.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

How long does it take to get a tank up to temp? I'm showing a 5 degree difference in the water behind the background and the front. I drilled 20 or so holes in the background before I filled it. Do I need a pump back there or will it even out over time? (it has had water in it for 12 hours)

Any ideas on how to cover the back so fish don't jump out or end up in the back?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Are your FX filter intakes behind the background but the intake strainer is in front of the background? It's difficult to see with the glass lid in place but you will need to secure the intake pipe behind the background so it is vertical and this should allow the glass lids to lay down flat.

The output nozzles will be a bit of a problem though if the are over the background rather than through the background. Can you take some pics of the space behind the background by the intake and output hoses without the glass lids in place AND looking down the tank?

I've forgotten but I think your plan was to use PVC pipes to connect the FX filter intakes behind the background, is that correct?

Regarding the temperature difference behind the background and the tank, what diameter holes did you drill in the background?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You would fill the tank with water of the correct temperature. 

Deeda has asked you some questions about the filters. 

Looks like the fluval intakes/returns...I was surprised to see they are so large when I bought one recently...I did not use them because they would not work with my tank/background. To answer your questions, the glass tops usually come with a plastic strip maybe 3" wide and that slips onto the glass top to block spaces between the filter plumbing at the back.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Deeda said:


> Are your FX filter intakes behind the background but the intake strainer is in front of the background? It's difficult to see with the glass lid in place but you will need to secure the intake pipe behind the background so it is vertical and this should allow the glass lids to lay down flat.
> 
> The output nozzles will be a bit of a problem though if the are over the background rather than through the background. Can you take some pics of the space behind the background by the intake and output hoses without the glass lids in place AND looking down the tank?
> 
> ...


The intakes are in the main area with the piping in the back (drilled a hole in the background). I was going to plumb the returns but the 90 degree turn let me do what I wanted without drilling a hole in the background. The background is flush with the top so I would have to drill 2x 1" holes to pump the return which may be an option. I didn't want to make a permeant decision and add holes I could not fix if I didn't like it. 

I drilled 30ish mid-size holes along with the natural cracks. Looking back, I could have done more but wasn't sure if I would be able to see them, so I stopped. As of now I have the water filled to the top of the background so it can flow over a little but I would like to lower the water level, so my Plecos do get back there.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

DJRansome said:


> You would fill the tank with water of the correct temperature.
> 
> Deeda has asked you some questions about the filters.
> 
> Looks like the fluval intakes/returns...I was surprised to see they are so large when I bought one recently...I did not use them because they would not work with my tank/background. To answer your questions, the glass tops usually come with a plastic strip maybe 3" wide and that slips onto the glass top to block spaces between the filter plumbing at the back.


 I would need 12" back plastic if they made it. I cant seem to find one that big.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

No what you need is to install the intake and output hoses so they are as close to the back glass of the tank and then you can install the normal plastic back strip that should have come with your glass tank lids and they will then lay flat. You would then just need to cut a U-shape or square cut opening in the back strip to fit around your FX filter hoses.

I don't think you will get sufficient water movement behind the background with 30ish mid-size holes though eventually it may equalize temperature wise. You could add a small water pump back there and plumb the return back to the front if you find the water gets stagnant behind the background.

Usually when installing a 3D style background like you have, most people put the intake pipe/strainer behind the background and then cut holes in the background and install a low profile intake strainer or create a DIY one.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Deeda said:


> No what you need is to install the intake and output hoses so they are as close to the back glass of the tank and then you can install the normal plastic back strip that should have come with your glass tank lids and they will then lay flat. You would then just need to cut a U-shape or square cut opening in the back strip to fit around your FX filter hoses.
> 
> I don't think you will get sufficient water movement behind the background with 30ish mid-size holes though eventually it may equalize temperature wise. You could add a small water pump back there and plumb the return back to the front if you find the water gets stagnant behind the background.
> 
> Usually when installing a 3D style background like you have, most people put the intake pipe/strainer behind the background and then cut holes in the background and install a low profile intake strainer or create a DIY one.


Not sure If I missed something but all my research said keep the intake heads in the main part of the tank so it can suck up all the poop. If I drilled enough large holes for all the poop to be sucked through the wall wouldn't I be able to see the holes? I would have to get really creative to be able to get the intake/output tubes tight to the wall with the angle the need to be at to reach the background and caves. Its 10" away from the back in some places. I could hard plum it and that may be the answer I just didn't want to cut 1' holes on the face of the background since there is no going back.

I may also have to hard plum a small pump to pull the warmer water from the back. I'm running a sponge filter back there to use in a quarantine tank if an emergency comes up.

Thank you for all the info. I hope I don't sound argumentative; I just want to see the options before I drill any more holes int a $600 background.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You only put the intakes in the main tank if the background is 100% covered in silicone and attached to the back so no water can get back there at all.

You only want one hole/intake...this forces all the water to flow through the hole. My holes are 2.25 inches. They are easy to conceal in a nook in the 3D background and/or behind a rock pile and/or behind a plant. This also keeps the flow going behind the background, eliminating the need for more apparatus.

At this point you seem to have no choice but to install a pump or wave maker just for behind the background. You need to keep that water fresh.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

@DJRansome any chance you can post a pic of what you did and whether you used any kind of screen to prevent fish from getting back there?


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

DJRansome said:


> You only put the intakes in the main tank if the background is 100% covered in silicone and attached to the back so no water can get back there at all.
> 
> You only want one hole/intake...this forces all the water to flow through the hole. My holes are 2.25 inches. They are easy to conceal in a nook in the 3D background and/or behind a rock pile and/or behind a plant. This also keeps the flow going behind the background, eliminating the need for more apparatus.
> 
> At this point you seem to have no choice but to install a pump or wave maker just for behind the background. You need to keep that water fresh.


Ill do some thinking you gave me some new ideas. I never thought about the intake on the back side causing a vacuum to pull the poop though. I'm not sure I drilled so many holes that it's too late to go that route. In theory I could mount the intake hose (remove the big arse guards) on the back side and put a mesh screen over the 1" holes. It would let me remove the pump back there. I could hard plum the return to get it tight against the back so my lids work normal.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

@The Glassfields , that is what I was trying to explain to you before about adding low profile aquarium intake strainers to your background, you could just use the existing holes or slightly enlarge the holes you are currently using for your FX filter strainers.

 Low profile intake strainer is an example of what I was referring to.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I did use screens initially, but eventually the silicone gives out and I am about to give up on the screens...just let the fish swim back/forth at will. They pretty much do that anyway.

The initial screens were plastic mesh sold at craft stores for needlepoint.

I will have to see what I have for pics and how hard it would be to get pics now. Hmmm.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

DJRansome said:


> I did use screens initially, but eventually the silicone gives out and I am about to give up on the screens...just let the fish swim back/forth at will. They pretty much do that anyway.
> 
> The initial screens were plastic mesh sold at craft stores for needlepoint.
> 
> I will have to see what I have for pics and how hard it would be to get pics now. Hmmm.


You could move all the fish, drain the tank, and pull out the background. I bet you could get some good pics then. 

Si if there is a 1" hole 3" from the intake is that enough to pull the **** thought the hole in the background?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Maybe not because the water can also flow through all the other holes.

Mine is a 2-1/4 inch hole 1/2 inch from the intake.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I agree that a 1 inch hole would probably not be large enough, even if you did two of them to replace each FX intake strainer. If you decide to go with the low profile aquarium filter strainers, go with a larger size than you think you need and you can always paint them to match your background.

When I made a DIY real rock background for a 72" long tank, I used lighting grid (egg crate) to make three 2 inch high x 4 inch long grates spaced evenly along the bottom of the background and cemented them in place and placed the canister filter intakes behind the background. They work great for allowing great water flow to the canister filters but unfortunately also allow the sand substrate to get behind the background as well as baby fish due to the size of the holes and how close to the bottom of the tank they are.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Thoughts on my first wave to stock a new tank. I had hoped to add OB and Dragons last but looking to save on shipping and get the 15% off for going over $300. Anything stand out as crazy?


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Deeda said:


> I agree that a 1 inch hole would probably not be large enough, even if you did two of them to replace each FX intake strainer. If you decide to go with the low profile aquarium filter strainers, go with a larger size than you think you need and you can always paint them to match your background.
> 
> When I made a DIY real rock background for a 72" long tank, I used lighting grid (egg crate) to make three 2 inch high x 4 inch long grates spaced evenly along the bottom of the background and cemented them in place and placed the canister filter intakes behind the background. They work great for allowing great water flow to the canister filters but unfortunately also allow the sand substrate to get behind the background as well as baby fish due to the size of the holes and how close to the bottom of the tank they are.


I have a piece of eggcrate I bought and didn't use so that's a good idea. I'm watching stuff float by the intake and not get sucked up, so it still scares me to hope it pulls all the poop in the holes. I kind or envision the intake sucking as much as the output shoots and it doesn't seem to be the case. I'm not messing with anything until the cycle finishes but just pointing one side of each output up has cleared everything off the top that was floating and will get sucked up at some point, I hope. Should I add a wave maker? I'm going to keep the pump in the back to help wove the warm water around since I can just move it a foot to do my water changes out the window. The wife was not ok with running the Python for an hour to drain the tank.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Any filter intake will not catch ALL the poop or debris generated in the aquarium on the first pass, there are just too many variables such as water movement, fish swimming by at the same time, decor getting in the way of the water circulation path, etc. There is often also dead spots in the aquarium that seem to get no water movement and poop and debris collects and these can be removed by hand siphoning in that area.

I would hold off on a wave maker at this time unless you really want one. Aren't you using the pump in the back to return water to the front of the aquarium?

Unless you are draining water out of the aquarium with the Python uphill of the tank, there is no reason to keep the water running while draining. Once you get the Python draining, just turn the tap off and let it continue to drain naturally.

I used a Python initially went I set up my 1st 75G tank and was unhappy with the length of time it took to drain using the Python hose so once I set up additional tanks, I just purchased a 20 foot long length of sump pump hose from home depot, made my own J-pipe to hang on the tank and drained out the patio door within minutes.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Deeda said:


> Any filter intake will not catch ALL the poop or debris generated in the aquarium on the first pass, there are just too many variables such as water movement, fish swimming by at the same time, decor getting in the way of the water circulation path, etc. There is often also dead spots in the aquarium that seem to get no water movement and poop and debris collects and these can be removed by hand siphoning in that area.
> 
> I would hold off on a wave maker at this time unless you really want one. Aren't you using the pump in the back to return water to the front of the aquarium?
> 
> ...


My tube is 50ft and unless the water is running full force it will stop the suction the second I turn it off. I have the pump moving water to the front so ill add something to be able to direct the flow and that will help. I'll get a better idea on dead spots once fish are in the tank. How low can I take the water down on that first water change? I would need to drop 80% to get down to the intake holes but I'm sure it's better to fix them now before I put fish in. As much as I want fish now I need to get it right before I add them and can't make changes anymore.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Also, I keep seeing this royal blue Cichlid with a white topfin. Anyone know what that is?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

The Glassfields said:


> How low can I take the water down on that first water change? I would need to drop 80% to get down to the intake holes but I'm sure it's better to fix them now before I put fish in. As much as I want fish now I need to get it right before I add them and can't make changes anymore.


Do you mean to lower the tank water level 80% in order to add egg crate or screening to the existing intake holes AND silicone them in place so they don't get dislodged? Yes you can do that but you will need to let the silicone cure (if using it) for a minimum of 3 days so probably won't be able to run the FX filters due to the low water level.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Deeda said:


> Do you mean to lower the tank water level 80% in order to add egg crate or screening to the existing intake holes AND silicone them in place so they don't get dislodged? Yes you can do that but you will need to let the silicone cure (if using it) for a minimum of 3 days so probably won't be able to run the FX filters due to the low water level.


I was going to zip tie it since it's not in a spot you can see. Then add the low profile cover over the intake just to be safe. How close does the intake need to be to the hole? Should I drill one more hole at each spot? Will I lose my cycle if I drain it that low for say an hr.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm sorry I'm not sure I'm following what your plan is. Are you removing the FX intake strainer from the background and installing a piece of egg crate cut to fit plus the low profile cover over the egg crate?


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Deeda said:


> I'm sorry I'm not sure I'm following what your plan is. Are you removing the FX intake strainer from the background and installing a piece of egg crate cut to fit plus the low profile cover over the egg crate?


Plan was to move the entire intakes behind the background. Drill a second 1" hole at each intake site. Zip tie eggcrate on the back side of the holes to keep fish in the main area. Mount the pickup tube as close to the holes as possible. Maybe drill a hole at the top to hard plum the returns so I can get my lid to close correctly. both my intakes are in a cave, and one would be 10" from the ground so I may need something to blow across the bottom to stir stuff up. If I hard plumb the return, it moves the angle of the return heads and doesn't allow me to point it up to agitate the water as much as I would like. Also, I have a sponge filer running behind the background to be seeded with BB in case I need a Q tank. I've read it help oxygenate the water too. If my water doesn't flow up over the top of the background, will it still benefit the tank?

Hope this all make sense and thank you again for tall the info. Want to just come to Seattle and fix all my stuff for me


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Thoughts on your stock list. You have some aggressive haps and peacocks and some timid ones. The timid ones may not color well with the aggressive ones, I might skip the sunshine, rubescens, and blue neon.

I would not have the intakes 10" off the ground...you want them as close to the bottom as possible to sweep the water across the substrate. Think in terms of 2".


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

DJRansome said:


> Thoughts on your stock list. You have some aggressive haps and peacocks and some timid ones. The timid ones may not color well with the aggressive ones, I might skip the sunshine, rubescens, and blue neon.
> 
> I would not have the intakes 10" off the ground...you want them as close to the bottom as possible to sweep the water across the substrate. Think in terms of 2".


Are the ones you said to skip the aggressive ones or the timid ones?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

OK I understand what you are planning now. My opinion is that neither a 1 inch hole or two 1 inch holes in the background are still not large enough to provide enough water volume to supply *each* FX filter once you move them behind the background especially if one or two of the holes should become clogged with debris of any size or a dead fish.

I know you don't want to drill larger than 1 inch holes in your background but I think your plan may set you up for failure as those FX filters move a lot of water volume. You would want the holes in the background to be at least as large as the intake strainer on each filter.

I need to go back and look at your pics of the FX returns to suggest how to install them through the background.

The sponge filter idea is good behind the background as it will mature and be able to be used in the event you need to quarantine fish and will help keep the water from stagnating behind the background. Do remember though you will need to clean the sponge filter regularly as it will also collect a lot of debris once you install your new egg crate screens in the background.

Oh and no you won't lose your cycle by having the filters off for an hour or two.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Those are the timid ones.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Deeda said:


> OK I understand what you are planning now. My opinion is that neither a 1 inch hole or two 1 inch holes in the background are still not large enough to provide enough water volume to supply *each* FX filter once you move them behind the background especially if one or two of the holes should become clogged with debris of any size or a dead fish.
> 
> I know you don't want to drill larger than 1 inch holes in your background but I think your plan may set you up for failure as those FX filters move a lot of water volume. You would want the holes in the background to be at least as large as the intake strainer on each filter.
> 
> ...


I don't really see a good way to move the intakes. If the idea is to hide as much as possible the number of holes, I would have to drill would look worse than the large intakes. To add, the places I would have them are 8-12 inches off the ground. I might be missing something, but more holes or larger holes seems to be worse. The water or flow will take the easiest path so unless I can focus the suction at those points wouldn't it just pull from all the cracks and sides that are not big enough to let poop pass.

The return problem is in order to hug the tubing tight I have to have a 90 angle to come across the background and then pass through the wall.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

DJRansome said:


> Those are the timid ones.


have you ever seen a master list of ranking aggressiveness? most websites just list them as aggressive or predatory.

also, it is the same price whether I get them, or not so would you try it and see?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I understand your desire for having the tank look nice, but you still want your apparatus to perform it's function. I would not place intakes high for any reason.

Fish are individuals so the aggressiveness is reported based on personal experience and general characteristics of the species. VERY generally, the stuartgranti peacocks are more timid than the hybrids and jakes. The placidochromis haps are more timid than the protomelas and fryeri. 

My intakes are over the top of the 3D background without modification. I chose a spot where the 3D is closest to the back wall of the tank.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

The Glassfields said:


> I don't really see a good way to move the intakes. If the idea is to hide as much as possible the number of holes, I would have to drill would look worse than the large intakes. To add, the places I would have them are 8-12 inches off the ground. I might be missing something, but more holes or larger holes seems to be worse. The water or flow will take the easiest path so unless I can focus the suction at those points wouldn't it just pull from all the cracks and sides that are not big enough to let poop pass.
> 
> The return problem is in order to hug the tubing tight I have to have a 90 angle to come across the background and then pass through the wall.











its 10" to the wall. the angle to the intake won't allow that tube to be clipped flush with the back of the tank. Even if it's perfect It still may not fit with the plastic 4" piece. I have the other side clipped down and the back of the glass touches it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

IMPORTANT RESPONSE.

I missed this earlier, but regarding getting the timid fish and trying them? I would say no...rehoming fish is stressful for me and them and I will go to almost any lengths to avoid having to do that.

I would get other fish that handle the aggression better in their place. So for a blue peacock...the red shoulder seems to handle aggression better. For a yellow, the Usisya seems to work better.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

DJRansome said:


> I understand your desire for having the tank look nice, but you still want your apparatus to perform it's function. I would not place intakes high for any reason.
> 
> Fish are individuals so the aggressiveness is reported based on personal experience and general characteristics of the species. VERY generally, the stuartgranti peacocks are more timid than the hybrids and jakes. The placidochromis haps are more timid than the protomelas and fryeri.
> 
> My intakes are over the top of the 3D background without modification. I chose a spot where the 3D is closest to the back wall of the tank.


There are no spots where the background is closer than 3 inches to the back of the tank, so I had to mount them like I did. It hides all the tubing, and the background also angles down so I would have to come out 8" to get the intake bar to reach the ground if I went over the top. I placed them in the caves and can get them as close to ground as I want there, so I think I'll leave them. (The idea of moving the intake behind was to circulate the warm water back there to the front and my pump fixed this problem) The gap behind the glass top is only 2.25 inches and is probably why I'm having a hard time getting the lid all the way down. I may go back to the plexiglass idea and remove the second glass piece. on each side. I think the background is pretty big compared to most 3d ones.

When planning my stock list, I got a lot of feedback on adding 4 groups of 6 fish vs 6 groups of 4 and most people thought larger groups of not a perfect mix vs adding multiple smaller groups would be less stressful. This mixed with people have different ideas on what goes with what and trying to keep orders larger to take advantage of bulk discounts and savings on shipping let me to that list. I also have spent the last 3 months looking at online sales and there are not many places to go to where you can get 3-5 unique all male under 4". Ill look at making those changes you mentioned.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm fairly sure that the plastic back trim is usually about 2.25" up to 3" depending on the size and brand of the tank.

The problem you are running into with the output/ nozzles is that they are installed over the background as I see in your pics and the intake pipe is angled to allow it to connect to the intake strainer through the hole you drilled in the background.

Have you already cut the FX filter hose to length or do you have enough slack left in the hose to make some routing changes to the output/nozzle connection in the pic below












The Glassfields said:


> View attachment 140930


If you have enough hose left, I would clamp it in the FX bracket as normal and then install a 90 degree fitting in the end of the hose and point it toward the rear of the background so you can figure out where you need to drill a hole in the background for the FX nozzle to come out the front of the background. You will probably need some hose to connect the 90 on the output hose through the background and to the nozzle.

You could do the same thing with the intake hose and pipe, install it vertically like it is supposed to be, clamped in the FX clamp attached to the back of the tank and make an extension so it reaches your intake strainer on the front of the background.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Groups? I thought you were going all male with one of each species and none looking anything alike?


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

DJRansome said:


> Groups? I thought you were going all male with one of each species and none looking anything alike?


Groups as in groups of males from one vendor added all at the same time. it seems like once I get past the 2nd or 3rd order it's hard to fine 3-5 unique males that I don't already have from one vendor.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)




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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Tank is looking good, were you able to get the glass canopies setting flat?


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

Deeda said:


> Tank is looking good, were you able to get the glass canopies setting flat?


I ended up cutting plexi glass to do it. I will need to redo it with a thicker one so it doesn't sag but its doing what I need it to. Getting close to being ready for some fish soon.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Plexiglas will probably always sag so you might want to consider using twin-wall polycarbonate which is normally used for greenhouses, might be a bit pricey nowadays but doesn't sag and is easy to cut.


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## nashihoude (Dec 25, 2021)

That's good, so you complete your job now? will you share the tank shot?


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

I'm still working on it. The sponge filter won't stay in the front. Pics don't look as clear as it is, bloom finally went away. Fish have been in for 4 days.


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## The Glassfields (Nov 27, 2021)

What would cause the Tank boss to hide on one side by himself? Doesn't seem to swim around as much as the others. I've seen pics of a bully keeping everyone on one side and its not that. He will eat but seems last out to get food. Seems fine when he comes out bit is always in a cave.


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