# Dead bristle nose and PH question.



## redstallion02 (Jan 17, 2008)

What fluctuation of PH is harmfull to a fish. Specifically Bristle nose but any cichlid would be helpfull.

I have not lost a fish since I began using Prime and I lost a fish with a 50% water change today. I have had 4 Bristlenose for 3 weeks in my 125 tank and everything was fine. I did the water change, decided to go 50% because I wanted some of my fish to breed and that usually helps them along.

Nitrite 0
Nitrate might be 10 little ligher than 10
Ammonia 0

My Tap PH is 7.6

Tanks PH is 8.2

Drained sump like normal. Filled sump up, 29 Gallon tank, put Prime in let sit fo 10 minutes then add to main tank. I repeat this process untill the 125 is full.

The second time through I noticed the bristlenose were out in the open, which never happens during the day and then I saw them darting to the surface and then going back to a rock. Then I saw one of the four upside down, so I quickly pulled all four out, which was strange in itself since normally they are to fast to even see them I can catch them all practically by hand. Placed them into my 10 gallon growout tank I had not changed yet.

the smallest of the four died. It was probably 1 inch. The other three which are close to 2 inches are still alive.

All other fish in tank are fine, which includes 7 Red Empress, 6 Lithobates, 4 Yellow labs, 2 Synodontis multipunctatus , Some albino peacocks, 1 Maleri Peacock and 1 Fryeri.

In Fact after I pulled the bristlenose out the albino's and the Synodontis multipunctatus were breeding and I got to see the synodontis take the eggs and lay thier own, which was cool.

But the original problem is the dead bristle nose. After the completed water change the PH in the tank is down to around 7.8.

Are the bristlenose just more sensitive since they are so young and meant to be put at a lower PH?


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2007)

Maybe you should be adding dissolved buffer into your sump when you do water changes so the fish don't experience pH and osmoregulation swings.

What's the difference in hardness between your tank water and your tap water?


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## Vincent (May 7, 2004)

Young bristlenose tend to be sensitive. I once bought 10 small albino longfin and only 2 survived. However, I have no problem breeding and raising them in pH 8.2 water.


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## redstallion02 (Jan 17, 2008)

I don't have a kit to test hardness.

I was actually on a website to order some more food and was thinking of adding a hardness, kh, gh test kit.

I honestly never tested my water before today because I have only lost a fish do to the water company added chlorine, now I use prime, but since that bristle nose died I decided I should probably know why.


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2007)

It's never a bad idea to test your water every time you do water changes to spot trends occurring before they become problems. I've gotten lazy and have started only testing my water every month or so, but that's after about 6 months of testing Nitrate, pH, KH and GH every week and writing it down in a notebook.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

My bristlenoses are in 8.2 ph--have been for years without any problems so I don't think its a problem with a high ph.



> My Tap PH is 7.6
> 
> Tanks PH is 8.2


What's causing your ph to rise to 8.2 in the tank? Normally if your tap KH is low you'll see the tank PH drop over time. Are you adding anything besides Prime? When you tested your tap PH did you do so after a sample had been sitting overnight?

One possibility here is that there was a higher level of chloramines in your tap water then usual and when you did the larger than normal water change there just wasn't enough Prime to handle them. Where the bristlenose were young and new to the tank they would have been more sensitive to this. It's also possible that there was some kind of toxin that entered the tank during the water change and again where the bristlenose's are young and new they were more sensitive to it.

In my own experience with chloramines I once forgot to add the Prime while doing a large water change in a 12 gallon beta tank. The beta showed an immediate reaction by suddenly becoming lethargic and blotchy-looking. I immediately realized my mistake and added the Prime and he came out of it but he was never the same.

Sounds like you definitely did the right thing in removing the bristlenoses. A call to your water company may shed some light as to whether there have been any changes to your water. It may just be that your tap water has a very high level of chloramines which only became a problem when you did the larger than normal water change. Prime does recommend using a larger dose if your chloramines are high.

Robin


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## redstallion02 (Jan 17, 2008)

I ordered a KH test kit yesterday so I can test the tap water. I also will test some tap water after sitting out for a day tonight.

As for what is raising the PH, I would guess it is the crushed coral. The only other thing in the tank is some slate. There is a small piece of concrete on one piece of the slate but it is smaller than a half dollar since I have heard concrete raises PH a lot.

As for the Prime, I will have to check the dosage on the bottle when I get home from work, but I have always used a capfull for 29 gallons. I let it sit and then pump it into the main tank.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> As for the Prime, I will have to check the dosage on the bottle when I get home from work, but I have always used a capfull for 29 gallons. I let it sit and then pump it into the main tank.


According to my bottle of Prime a capful treats 50 gallons so for the 29g you've been double dosing already which is what they recommend for high chloramines. Did you also double dose for the 125g? And did you dose for the entire tank volumne or just the new water you were adding?

Doesn't sound like a chloramine O.D.. Could still be some other sort of toxin that came in via the water change. You might ask the water company what if any changes/problems they've had with your water recently. Also go over everything associated with the water change to try and determine how a toxin might have gotten into the tank. Soap or gasoline residue on your fingers, cleaning substances on the water changing equipment, etc.

How are the remaining bristlenoses?

Robin


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## redstallion02 (Jan 17, 2008)

I use a garden hose adaptor on a clear tube hose for my water changes, I baught it specifically or the job. So it has never been used anywhere else. Is it possible that it has something that is deteriating?

I use the water out of the hot water heater. I just shut the hot water heater off so the temperature usually is about 80 degreesd which is right where I keep my tank at.

The remaining bristlenose were back to normal within 10 minutes of being in the other tank. Probably going to put them back in the 125 again. The only major differance was the size.

No soap or gas or anything to clean anything was on the equipment, same process every week. I will stop using the sprayer on the hose and use it from the sink water instead of the hot water heater next week. The hose I use isn't a garden hose though it is just clear tube so I will replace that too since it is cheap.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> I use a garden hose adaptor on a clear tube hose for my water changes, I baught it specifically or the job. So it has never been used anywhere else. Is it possible that it has something that is deteriating?


I guess it's always safer to go with equipment that's made for aquarium use but I honestly can't see anything wrong with this set up. Some plastics can leach toxins so I suppose if there was some stagnent water in the tube from your last water change then there could have been a concentration of these toxins in that water. Obviously just guessing here.

Had you always done your water changes from the hot water heater?

It would seem that if the only difference between this water change and the others you routinely do is that this was a much larger water change then it seems to point to a toxin in the water that only became a problem when there was more of it.

I wouldn't hesitate to put the bristlenoses back in but I would be cautious about doing any more large water changes.

Robin

Just make sure too that you're dosing the Prime on the full volume of the tank--not just the amount of water you're replacing. . .


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## redstallion02 (Jan 17, 2008)

Thanks for your help.

Yea I will be doing smaller water changes from now on.

Thanks again for your responses and feedback.


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