# Apistos.... which one?



## magpie (Nov 12, 2011)

Hi there,

I'm getting back into the hobby and am in the process of getting a 65-gallon well-planted tank up and running. I'd love a pair of Rams, Bolivian or Blue, and am wondering what kind of other dwarf would go well with them? I'm leaning towards Apistos as I love the look of many of them. Other suggestions?

Also, how much difference in personality between the Apisto species? Should I just go on looks?

I am still in the research phase so am very open. I also plan on having some other small schooling fish if that makes a difference - probably cardinal tetras and forktail rainbows. And not fully sure what else.

Here are the varieties that my LFS (which is amazing, I am lucky) carry - it's a bit overwhelming.

Apistogramma, agassizi "Double Red", 1.5", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, cf. agassizi netz "Tefe Pearl Blue", 1.5", $17.50 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, baenschi "Inka", 1", $20.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, bitaeniata , 1.25", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, borelli "Blue", 1.5", $10.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, borelli "Opal", 1.25", $12.50 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, cacatuoides "Double Red", 1.25", $12.50 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, cacatuoides "Orange Flash", 1.5", $12.50 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, cacatuoides WILD Peru, 1.25", $8.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, cruzi WILD Peru, 1.25", $8.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, sp. "Kelleri" "Diamond Face", 1.75", $50.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, diplotaenia, 1", $50.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, elizabethae, 1.25", $45.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, eunotus "Blue Cheek", 1.25", $12.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, eunotus "Blue Cheek" WILD Peru, 1.5", $8.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, hongloi , 1.25", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, mendezi, 1", $20.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, nijsseni, 1.5", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, panduro , 1", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, sp. "Pebas", 1"+, $20.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, pertensis, 1", $12.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, sp. "Rotpunkt", 1.5", $10.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, trifasciata, 1.5", $12.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, sp. "Tucurui", 1.25", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, uaupesi, 1.25", $20.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed

Thanks in advance for any input!


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## halffrozen (Sep 24, 2011)

I WISH they had that kind of selection here!!! :sadpanda:

I would do Electric Blue German Rams.


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## magpie (Nov 12, 2011)

I feel really fortunate. They have so much knowledge to share and their fish are extremely healthy. They also have a great plant selection, too. (I feel like I'm marketing - I promise I have no connection with them!)
http://www.wetspottropicalfish.com/inde ... &Itemid=64

I had a pair of Blue Rams in my prior tank back before I took it apart (house too small) about 8 years ago. This was before the internet so I didn't know how sensitive they were supposed to be. They did just fine, and I'm thinking part of that success may be the stock I got to begin with? I think I kept them at 78 degrees, and I know they supposedly like to be warmer. Our water does tend to be soft here and neutral-ish to a bit acidic, so that may also have something to do with it too.

The electric blue rams are nice, but honestly I prefer the standard GBRs. I loved those little guys - they had so much character and spunk and were so pretty... Maybe I do need to go GBR over BR, I don't know. I keep changing my mind. I have heard that the BRs tend to be even more interactive and less shy, though my prior GBRs weren't shy...


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

magpie said:


> Also, how much difference in personality between the Apisto species? Should I just go on looks?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any input!


Your list ranges in personality from psychotic to gentle. In my opinion, you need to decide on which ram 1st as german blue rams limit your apisto choices to Just a couple choices. Borelli can work...


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## magpie (Nov 12, 2011)

This is exactly the info I was looking for - thank you!

I'm assuming the choice with Blues is limited due to the water specs needed?

The only reason I'm not committing to the Bolivians is because the Blues were my first cichlid love and I have a major soft spot for them. But I think, now that I have the knowledge of what makes them happiest, that I should probably go with the Bolivians.

I also love kuhli loaches, and though I had Blues and Kuhlis before together (again, may have been a fluke) I think the kuhlis prefer it closer to 78, but could go a bit higher. I know the Blues like 82.

So lets choose based on Bolivians.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Aww and I thought I had the most dwarf cichlid selection... :x Altho the ones I have available are about half the price of what you have, so I guess it's even 

Blue rams like 84+ actually, but tank raised ones wont care much at all. Bolivians do best, and are the most interesting, in groups of 6 or more. I have atm agassizi, baenschi, and cacatuoides, and have had trifasciata, bitaeniata, macmasteri, borelli, and panduro. I must say the cacatuoides are the funniest, altho the inkas are the most colourful; none of them were particularly aggressive, except when they were defending their brood. Keep in mind that most apistos will not tolerate any type of bottom feeding fish, especially when they spawn.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

BelieveInBlue said:


> Blue rams like 84+ actually, but tank raised ones wont care much at all. Bolivians do best, and are the most interesting, in groups of 6 or more.


I dont think its safe to say that tank raised dont care about the heat. There are likely some domestic strains that are cold tolerant but there are also manu that still need a warm tank.

Magpie, is the 65g a 4 ft long tank or 3fft?

At 3 ft, i would try aggazizi or cacatoides with bolivians. I dont think id try 6 bolivians aand apistos. Not much floor space.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Apistogramma cacatuoides are nice


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## magpie (Nov 12, 2011)

BelieveInBlue said:


> Blue rams like 84+ actually, but tank raised ones wont care much at all. Bolivians do best, and are the most interesting, in groups of 6 or more. I have atm agassizi, baenschi, and cacatuoides, and have had trifasciata, bitaeniata, macmasteri, borelli, and panduro. I must say the cacatuoides are the funniest, altho the inkas are the most colourful; none of them were particularly aggressive, except when they were defending their brood. Keep in mind that most apistos will not tolerate any type of bottom feeding fish, especially when they spawn.


Can you multiquote in this forum? I don't see an easy way to...

Anyway, thanks so much for the input. I had read somewhere that I shouldn't have more than 2 pairs of Rams in a 65 gallon, and then since I assumed I couldn't have more than 2 pair rams, that I should then only have one pair rams and one pair apistos.

What do you all think?

Also, I don't want a fish that will hassle my kuhli loaches. My prior kuhlis would come up to eat out of my hand, and I don't want someone keeping them hidden and intimidated. I had read that apistos were OK for a community tank but I realize that first hand experience can often trump what you read on the interwebs.


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## magpie (Nov 12, 2011)

Number6 said:


> BelieveInBlue said:
> 
> 
> > Blue rams like 84+ actually, but tank raised ones wont care much at all. Bolivians do best, and are the most interesting, in groups of 6 or more.
> ...


I'm thinking that that's why my prior Blue Rams did OK in my prior tank when I didn't know any better... they were tank raised. But though I might be able to do it, I don't want unhappy fish or those who aren't feeling great or are shy because I just WANT them. 

It's a 3 foot 65 gallon.

So would you do one pair rams one pair apistos?


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I'd just do 6 bolivian rams, but a pair of rams and a pair of apistos would be ok. By won't care much I mean don't require nearly as high of a temperature as the wilds. Dwarf cichlids are bottom dwelling fish, so even if they don't harrass the khulis, the cichlids will probably flare and bug the loaches. Footprint wise, rams require about the same territory per pair as a single female apisto, so 3 pairs could work in a 3foot tank, but would be iffy and will require a lot of decor. If you're really set on mixing dwarves, I'd say a pair and a pair would be the safest.

PS: I'm lucky enough to know someone who carries wild rams, and wild dwarf cichlids, for that matter, on a regular basis


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

magpie said:


> It's a 3 foot 65 gallon.
> 
> So would you do one pair rams one pair apistos?


Me personally? I agree with believeinblue... 4 to 6 bolivians are a better choice to make the tank attractive and for there to be a chance that the loaches are left alone. A pair of breeding apistos can be a problem in a 3ft tank.

I also agree with the next bit of advice as well. If you do mix, one pair of bolivians and one pair of a gentle apisto like borelli will be best. Put a breeding cave at either end of the tank and none in the middle!


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## little_b10 (Jan 29, 2008)

I wish my LFS had a selection half that good I'm lucky to see one variety of Apisto. wow


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## magpie (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks for the advice everyone... I plan on having a lot of decor, planted heavily, etc. but I read even then that in a 3 foot tank that 6 rams might be too much. Maybe that was with Blue rams and I assumed it applied to all? I have also read that Blues can be more territorial than the Bolivians, so maybe that was it.

I'll definitely put breeding cave areas at either end of the tank. Now to decide whether to keep all rams or go for one pair each. I just love the cichlids and so wanted an experience with a different kind (apisto) than I'd had before, yet I still love my rams.  I would have preferred a 4 ft tank but we chose a 3-foot tank for this house as the best spot is on a 44" wall, and the 48" tanks would stick out some, which made me nervous and probably would look odd. I knew that due to this I'd have to be more careful with getting a mix of fish that like different areas of the tank.

Are cacautoides not as gentle? I have them on my list of "good with rams."

Again, there's just so much mixed information out there.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Cacatoides are one of the more gentle species... Not as easy going as borelli, but pretty good.


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## magpie (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks again. I think I'll visit the store this week, scope out both types of borelli, the cacautoides, and ask them their input as well. I know i have to take LFS input with a grain of salt, but i do trust this one place. Also want to know what they're keeping each tank at, temp & ph-wise. I know our water tends to run more soft.


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