# Tyrannochromis juveniles with Bloat



## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

It looks like a few of my Tyrannochromis juveniles may have bloat. Only one is actually bloated with white feces but there's two others that appear visually normal but not eating.

What should I do for treatment? Currently I have tetracycline, metronidasole, sodium chloride, magnesium sulfate (epsom salt), and 84F as my treatment.

Should I keep doing that or do something else? Meds I have available are Furan-2, Metronidasole, Melafix, Tetracycline (pure human grade and fish grade, currently using fish grade), Quick Cure, and the salts.

Should I start dosing the Furan-2?

~Ed


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

The bloated one with the white feces died. Should I keep up my current med treatment or should I start dosing Furan-2 as well?

~Ed


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## Mr Aquarium (Jan 2, 2005)

I don't know if I am allow to do this or not, 
But we had a guy that told his treatment and even had the pictures insode the fishes mouths to back it up.....
about the 7th post in this thread
"this is from our fish clubs site/forum" sorry if this is not allowed, but it's a good topic
to read over.
http://iowa-aquaria.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8355


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Ed, that's alot of medication to be putting in a tank at once. Between that and raising the temp, I would be a little worried about stressing the fish too much, especially considering they are ill.

I would follow one of the two bloat treatments below my signature.

Squeeze in all the water changes you can.

Kim


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

The two definite bloat victims are dead. I fed a small amount and the rest all appear to be eating. Should I still buy clout and treat the tank as a precaution or should I stop treatment and look for any more symptoms?

~Ed


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You need to finish treating the tank, whether it's with meds or medicated food.

Kim


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

So far I did a 50% water change, added a double dose of metro and nothing else.

Should I keep dosing metro or start treating with clout? And should I keep feeding them lightly or fast them?

~Ed


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If you can get the fish that are eating to ingest the meds, you're better off. For that reason alone, I would continue with the metro in their food. For those that aren't eating, you will need to treat the water column.

Kim


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

The food isn't medicated though. The metro is in the water column.

Should I keep feeding pellets or feed flakes?

~Ed


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

I tried feeding a small amount of pellets and flakes, some ate but most just mouthed and spit. Because of this I decided to add another double dose of metro, salt and epsom salt, and Clout.

I checked on them an hour later and they appear to be in better condition. I'm going to check on them again at 7am EST.

For now I'm going to continue treating with both metro and clout. If you don't think using both is a good idea let me know.

~Ed


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I don't think using both is a good idea. 

I think you tend to overmedicate your tanks when you have problems, and this can cloud the issue with the illness itself.

I would choose one or the other.

Kim


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## nimboman (Jan 11, 2008)

Hey *Marduk* sorry about your problem and I hope everyone else is ok . I also hope you didnt loose any of your prospected males


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2008)

Personally I feel that with expensive fish in particular and with extreme illnesses (the last one I battled in January had no symptoms until hours before death, and any symptoms that the fish did have were inconsistent with the other fish, which is why I decided to overmedicate with 3 strong medicines when treatment with metro failed with two $50 wildcaught fish and two other inexpensive ones. Though me and you agreed to disagree about my treatment with 3 meds, I still think it was the right move as an emergency action when I was losing up to two fish a day. Though I do agree with you though on the potential risks of overmedicating...

Personally I am going to only follow through with the clout treatment and stop with metro because I am 95% sure what my guys have is bloat and the metro doesn't seem to work. So far they haven't gotten any worse but aren't any better yet. I'm going to go against the clout instructions and give them a major water change tomorrow (to give them clean water and get rid of the metro from the water) and treat clout again.

Thanks for the help *cichlidaholic*, and I'll keep you guys updated,
~Ed


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2008)

nimboman said:


> Hey *Marduk* sorry about your problem and I hope everyone else is ok . I also hope you didnt loose any of your prospected males


The large alpha male (3.5") is still kicking but infected. So far he hasn't gotten any worse and hopefully will stay like that and eventually get better.

The first one I lost I believe was a female, the second a male.

Hopefully I won't lose any others...if I do I am going to be extremely angry...

Thanks for the concern though... I'm hoping everything ends up well and the clout curing it fast...

~Ed


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## SubMariner (Jun 4, 2008)

Typically, when it comes to bloat Malawi Salt is especially good in helping them Poop. And the minerals keep Parasites and other things away from them. Also, skip a day of feeding them so that there intestines clear up. You can offer a mixture of flake food with Spiriluna that is kinda of a laxative in a sense.

As far as seeing white feces, Pure Metro is the best and if they are not eating soak some food with a dose or 2 of the Metro and let it dry. Then feed the sick fish and it will do it's job internally and kick the Parasites Butt! Don't use Clout, you don't need it and it will destroy all your good bacteria and then your fish will freakin stress out bad. I know what your going through, but don't stress out yourself. Good Luck and don't forget to do 50% water changes every 2 days and vacum up those white feces because if the other fish eat it they to will be infected with an Alien in their stomach if you know what I mean. :lol:

See ya,

SubMariner


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

SubMariner said:


> As far as seeing white feces, Pure Metro is the best and if they are not eating soak some food with a dose or 2 of the Metro and let it dry. Then feed the sick fish and it will do it's job internally and kick the Parasites Butt!


Just out of curiousity, Submariner, how do you get a fish to take treated food when it isn't eating?

And, when you refer to "Malawi salt", what are you referring to? Aquarium salt doesn't serve as a laxative. Epsom salt does.

Marduk, I know what you mean about the metro. I feel the same way about Clout. I still believe the problem is that once the fish stops eating and we can't get them to ingest the meds via food, we're fighting an uphill battle to save them.

Not sure what the solution is to that, it's just my thoughts. Meds in the water column don't seem to benefit infected fish after a certain point.

Keep us posted!

Kim


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2008)

I do have access to medical syringes. If you think forcing metro or clout into their system would help or force feeding after a while let me know.

~Ed


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## nimboman (Jan 11, 2008)

I have never known anyone to do that but if *cichlidaholic* agrees I say dilute it a little so you dont shock the fish, but you got to try something to save them!! Then again the stress of handling the fish might not be so helpfull.


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## SubMariner (Jun 4, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> SubMariner said:
> 
> 
> > As far as seeing white feces, Pure Metro is the best and if they are not eating soak some food with a dose or 2 of the Metro and let it dry. Then feed the sick fish and it will do it's job internally and kick the Parasites Butt!
> ...


Kim, First of all,Epsom salt does act as a Laxative, but I have seen Malawi Lake Salt work almost the same. 2nd, In the wild (Malawi Lake) there is no Epsom Salt, so if you can provide the closest mineral from there habitat then great. If it's bloat, change the food and cutt back on feeding. I feed my African's Once a Day, that's it. They are trained and I hardly ever get bloat in my fish.

3rd, As for fish that are not eating it's really up to the fish to fight off the parasite by then. Now, I would not stop feeding him all together because he will eventually get hungry and his system will need food (metabolism) to survive and have energy. I do not like clout.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Ed, I've considered doing the syringe thing with EBJD before, but have never actually tried it. I believe you would actually need tubing (very tiny tubing) to get it down into the esophagus far enough that it won't come back up, and I think this might stress an already sick fish past the point of no return.

I've said a thousand times that I always believe it's best if you can get a fish to ingest the meds, so I certainly wouldn't see anything wrong with trying it, but I do believe you need to get it further than the mouth area for it to stay in.

SubMariner, my point is that epsom salt alone is all you need as a _preventative_ measure. It isn't going to help fish that are already too far gone.

I'm still not sure what you're referring to as "Malawi Lake Salt". What are the ingredients? Adding buffers to a tank that doesn't need them can be pretty risky. :thumb:

I do agree that improper food can lead to bloat, but Ed knows how to feed his fish. And even if he didn't, changing the food and cutting back on feeding isn't going to help a fish that is already refusing food. :-?

I don't like Clout, either. I find it to be very harsh and think it can sometimes be more than an already weakened fish can handle. But often, we're really just trying to prevent other fish from becoming infected, and I do think it works for this.

Kim


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2008)

I'm not sure how my ancistrus sp. is handling the clout, but the tyrannochromis are VERY tolerant of it and showing no signs of stress surprisingly. Because of all the horror stories about it I was expecting at first that my guys show some stress against it! I guess the tyrant cichlid is just an extremely tough one! :lol:

~Ed


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

That's good news!

Keep us posted...

Kim


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2008)

I dosed again today at full strength. Should I dose again tomorrow and/or do a water change? When do you think I should try feeding again, and should I feed what they're used to (pellets) or flakes?

Yesterday some had the white feces. I didn't see any today and I don't see any more signs of stress or symptoms of bloat.

~Ed


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

I tried feeding a little bit today. I fed pellets and some flakes today and they all ate! Afterwards I put in a few more flakes and added a couple teaspoons of epsom salt.

Here's what I was planning on doing. I'm going to fast them for a few days, and today or tomorrow I will be doing a major water change and continue full strength treatment for at least another 2 days. Then I was going to try feeding them, and if they ate I was to treat them at least 1 more day and fast again for at least todays, and after the water changes and carbon I was going to resume daily feeding.

What do you guys think? Does it sound like a good treatment plan to follow through with?

~Ed


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## nimboman (Jan 11, 2008)

Sounds good to me better safe then sorry. Glad your fish are doing better :thumb:


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Sounds like you're on the right track, Ed!

I would go really easy on the food for awhile, though...

Kim


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2008)

I did a 80% water change, added clout, 2tbsp/5gal of salt, and 2tbsp of epsom salt. I decided to feed them today, this time only a few flakes, and decided to start feeding daily now but only enough flakes that they can eat in about 30-60seconds.

If they keep up eating after 2 more doses of clout I'll just stop using clout and add the carbon.

~Ed


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

Still eating all the flakes. Also I've been adding 1-2tbsp of epsom salt between each feeding.

Tomorrow I will be doing a 2/3 water change and adding carbon. After another day or two I'll be lowering the temperature back to normal and will likely resume pellet feeding next week.

Oh, and the alpha male is showing some of his blue again.

~Ed


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## nimboman (Jan 11, 2008)

SWEET :thumb:


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