# Post and discuss your discus



## kingpoiuy

I'm very close now to the purchase! We are going to be getting some discus soon and I want everyone to show off their stuff. I barely ever seen discus on this forum so now's your chance.

Please include as much information as possible as I am also using this to decide on my setup as well. (tank size, number of discus, fish mates, substrate, etc) of course pics are worth a thousand words!

opcorn:


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## jgentry

Welcome to the world of discus. They are truly an amazing fish that dispite what is said a very easy to keep if you fallow some simple rules. They just require more work, no magic beans required.

I have a heavily planted 72g bow front show tank. It includes 7 5inch plus discus all of different strains. My fish include a red turk, brilliant blue, blue diamond, checkerboard pigion, pigion blood, red marlboro, and alenquer. I also have 2 albino bristlenosed plecos along with a group of 5 cory's in the tank.

Here what you have to have to properly keep discus.

- 2 heaters that can consistently keep your water at 84-86 degrees
- A good biological filter
- at least a 55g tank
- a water storage container that can hold at least 75% of your tank volume (if your tap water does not have stable PH)
- the ability to do consistant water changes
- the ability to feed a wide variety of frozen and dry foods sveral times a day.

You will need to decide to either buy adults or grow out juvies. I recommend you buy adults, you will pay more for them but by the time you put the work and food into growing out juveniles it is cheaper to buy adults. Plus you will know exactly what the fish looks like when you buy it. Juveniles change so much you really have no idea how they will turn out. If you want to grow them out do it in a bare bottom tank. Do not put gravel in there! You will need to feed them 4-6 times per day and do at at least 50% water changes every other day but every day would be much better. If you do not keep this up your discus will not grow and will never meet there potential. There's nothing worse then stunted big eyed discus. For a filter you can use sponge, hang on, or canisters. I prefer XP3's on my tanks, but any of them will work. Do not use carbon, only biological filtration. You do not have to RO filter your water, todays discus are hardy and can live in water up to Ph 7.8 easily and water that is very hard. Soft water is only used for wilds and for breeding tanks. You will need to age your water with a air pump and heater for 24hrs before doing your water change to remove any CO2 out of the tap water. If your tap water has consistent PH you can skip aging, but it still must be the same temp as the tank.

Go to simplydiscus.com and you will find all the info you could ever need about keeping discus. I also recommend buying you fish from a sponser on simplydiscus, only buy local if you have a reputable dealer with great looking stock. You will see pictures on simplydiscus of what fish should and shouldn't look like.


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## Guest

You can click on my "tanks" button to see the details of my 265G discus setup. But here are the pics:


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## shef

I'm pretty new to Discus as well. I think I've only had mine for about 2 months now so they aren't that big yet. I have 7 juvies in a 55g tank. I have an AC110 and an AC70 for filtration as well as 2 200w heaters. I keep the temp at 86 and do one large water change weekly as well as several smaller ones. Mine is bare bottom and currently has no decor besides some floating water sprite. I originally had them in a planted tank but had trouble with them. I also have some cardinal tetras with them.


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## Dutch Dude

Hi all,....I'm new into Discus as well and just keep them for abouth 7 weeks or so.

Back in the 80's my dad kept 2 wc browns and a green one in a 40 gallon tank. I remembered them as shy and very peaceful wonderful colored fish that were fascinating to watch. Now that I'm grown I still was fascinated by their appearance but the high energy costs (heating the tank) and the reputation of Discus being very difficult was holding me back,.....til recent. I have a nice e-mail contact with a great learning master Larry (Apistomaster). Thanks bud for all the info :thumb: He breeds Discus for over 4 decades and is always enthusiastic abouth them. So some pics, some links, some info,.....making me doubt,...and finally I was caught by the Discus addiction. :wink:

I decided to go with youngsters to become more experienced on growing them and to watch them grow up to beautiful adults. Originally I bought 8 alenquer but after all they turn out to be a diferent specie and most likely red scribbled. I put the 3 inch fish into a 50 gallon tank with 1/2 inch of sand substrate, some floating plants and a piece of driftwood. I did daily water changes of 50% to 70% and feed frozen (artemis, bloodworms, whiteworms), 2 times a day beefheartblend and live foods (bloodworms, artemis, daphnia). So far mine refuse pellets and flakes but I guess they are spoiled with the frozen and life foods :?

I returned 2 fish back to the lfs and stick with the 6 best looking fish. I tried to make a mix with my Guianacara but the constant quarreling of the Guianacara made my Discus stressed and even a bit skittish. I decided to take down my future Gymnogeophagus tank (waiting over 1 1/2 year to receive fish) and switch it to a discus tank. I still have to work on the aqua scape and some plants do need to grow larger but so far so good.

The fish are only 5 day's in this tank and still need to get used to their new tank. In the meantime they are grown to 4 inch. After a grow spurt they don't grow much at this moment but i noticed some changes in the body shape.

So far I can tell that Discus are known to be delicate but I don't agrea on that. Like told by an other poster you need to follow some rules and do more water changes compared to most other fish and thats it! No mysteries and no magic treatment needed for happy Discus. I also discovered that discus aren't the dull slow moving specie but do have some character! They definitely act like cichlids! Now I finally keep them I'm very pleased and wish I didn't hold back for so long. They are marvelous fish!

Next thing is to adjust some things to the aquascape and buy me a nice school of rummy nose tetras and a bushy nose pleco. Ooh by the way,.....their curent tankmates are abouth 50 cherry shrimp. Eeeeh,...minus one,.....hahaha! While I wrote this one of them get eaten :lol:

Here is a pic of the curent tank,.....what do you think?


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## Guest

Wow! Very nice looking discus and tank as well. I imagine we could expect a lot more of long discus related posts from Dutch Dude going forward.


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## kingpoiuy

Some really great posts everyone! Keep them coming I'm absolutely loving it! Right now I have a 55g (standard 48"l x 18"h x 12"w) which I am planning to put them in. Probably about 4 of them. The tank right now has some neon tetras to get it aged. Not sure about keeping the tetras in there or not.

Love the floating plants *Dude*!
*dntx5b9* and *shef*, I really like how you've mixed up the colors of discus.
*jgentry*, some great info thanks alot!

We are hoping to get some fry out of them but wont be disappointed if we don't. There is 1/2" of play sand in the tank now and a large log with some fake plants. I plan on putting real plants in there someday. Ill have to get a good pic of the tank in it's current state.

Any breeder's in West Michigan feel free to PM me.


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## Dutch Dude

:lol: Yes you need to prepare yourself for loooooong discus posts :lol: Thanks for the nice words. Right now I'm not satisfied with the aqua scape but considering this tank is set up only 6 day's ago it isn't that bad. No worries guys becouse I used established filter foam and left in abouth 20% of the water from the Gymno tank.

Dntx,....To be honest I'm not a big fan of the Pignon Blood and related Discus and like the more natural colors. That is why I originally bought alenquer. Unfortunately I receved diferent fish but red scribbled and red turquoise I do like. Mine might end up as a cross between blue and red scribbled but time will tell. So if I look at your fish you can guess I like your red turquoise and the large fish in the midle. What color is he,...looks like a wild green. A very nice fish and large to! At first your fish seem to be small but then I noticed your tank is a 265G !!!

Shef,....how are the Discus doing? Are they growing? Some seem to have rather large eyes compared to their body size. A temp of 86 is a bit high imo. I keep mine at 83.

To all of you,...what are you feeding and how many feedings a day?

Currently I feed BHB (beef hart blend) in the morning, and 3 to 4 feedings of frozen or life.


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## kingpoiuy

Gotta let you know Dude I have gotten a couple of really really positive comments about your tank and your 'scaping from some friends who are not members of the forum. It's a stunning tank indeed!


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## shef

Dutch, which ones do you think have bigger eyes? I'm finding the blue diamonds are growing painfully slow while the yellows and the red are growing fast (they are much bigger than the others). I will try lowering my temp. I try to feed 4 or 5 times a day using hikari discus, NLS, colorbits and blood worms. They seem to be doing well. This is my first time with Discus too so I really hope they aren't stunted 

Nice tank Dutch Dude!


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## Dutch Dude

Thanks Kingpoiuy and shef 

Shef,....to me the red turquoise and the blues seem to have large eyes compared to their size. But,...I'm no expert on discus so I can be wrong with that. The red and yellow indeed seem to be quit normal.

Do you keep an eye on the nitrate? It should be 15 or lower and preferable below 10. Maybe you can try to feed more heavy frozen stuff like the Bloodworm's and do 2 or 3 feedings of the heavy stuff and 2 of pellets. Don't you wanna try bhb? The frozen and the bhb contains more protein and are quit heavy food. The drawback is that you need to increase water changes. In a 55 with 7 of them I would at least do a 65% wc every other day. I tried les but my nitrate level went up to 15 and this definitely slows down growth.


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## shef

Good suggestions Dutch Dude. Is BHB beef heart? I've never tried that. I may have to step up water changes. The 2 yellows and the red are voracious eaters while the other 4 aren't as much. I added some driftwood and silk plants to the tank (I also have a bunch of water sprite) yesterday and now they all hide. Not sure if I should take that stuff out or not. The ones you think are turquise are actually spotted greens. I guess if they are stunted even increasing water changes won't fix that will it? This is my very first attempt at Discus so I guess I have a lot to learn. I will test the nitrate right away to see what it is at.


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## Dutch Dude

Shef,....BHB is indeed beef heart blend. You can cook it your self but you probably need some experimenting on the recipe. I have experience and ame stuck with 5 lbs of bhb they refuse to eat (probably becouse of the texture and to much spirulina). So I bought frozen Stendker bhb.

Um,...they hide behind the plants? I can't think of a good reason for that. Whether you should remove the plant or not,...I have know idea. I'm new to discus as well and didn't struggled with this issue. Maybe someone can jump in on this. If I was in your position I would remove the water sprite if they hide all day and act to shy or don't come out to feed.

Keeping nitrates low is very important for growing youngsters (not only discus). The large fish also release hormones to the water that slow down the growth of the other fish. So water changes are essential to keep them growing. Stunted fish will never reach their normal size. If they are still growing you might provide them the best change to reach their maximum.

Huh that turquoise are red spotted greens? I'm surprised becouse that doesn't look like spots and more normal patterns for a turq. Well,....I'm jealous right now,.....I get wet dreams of red spotted greens 

Oooh and I'm curious at the nitrate reading!


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## Dutch Dude

Shef,....are you sure abouth the red spotted greens,....after a close view they look more as snakeskin red to me.


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## Guest

I have heard from others that removing places for discus to hide helps them out on the open and be bolder. But if they are eating, I don't see the need to take the decos out. Also, keeping the temp around 86 or even 88 will help the juvies eat better and be more active. As they get older, you can keep the temp lower. My tank is at 84 to 86 at the moment.

I have 2 wilds and 15 domestic strain discus. Not quite sure what strain my wilds are, but my wild male is huge. He is the biggest guy in my tank. 7" from head to tail. The one in the pic is a smaller one of the two. The second largest is domestic female. Well over 6". The two have paired up and spawned a few times. I actually have three different pairs.


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## shef

Well they were sold to me a spotted greens. I have a lot of faith in the person I got them from but I guess he could be wrong. It doesn't really matter to me what strain they are, I just like the pattern on them.

My temp is 85 and I did the nitrate test and it was at 10mg/l. I did a 60% water change after that. It sucks that some are stunted. I don't know if I did it to them or if it was done before I got them. I guess the only thing now it to care for them as best I can and hope they stay healthy.


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## kingpoiuy

That's alot of water change compared to what my other fish get. I am planning to put water line and drain directly into my tank because I have well water and it's just about perfect for discus. Well, It's hard and ph is 7.6 so I guess you could say it's on the edge of good for discus.

You guys have this type of setup or are you doing all that water changing with buckets? My 75g Malawi has plumbing too and there's no way I'll go back to buckets, it's great! Even if I had city water I would probably have to set up the plumbing to the tub where the water ages then plumb that to the tank. Guess I'm lazy! :lol:


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## Dutch Dude

Thats a nice low nitrate level and 10 is fine :thumb:

Those fish are indeed nice once and nice colors and pattern. Once they are grown it will be more easy to determine the exact color.

The stunted once is definitely not created by you! You only keep them for a short period and some seem to grow nicely. Those fish were already behind in development when you bought them. So give them the best circumstances for growth and health is all you can do. I hope they do start to grow but they might end up as small fish. The other fish will grow to normal size as long as you keep on feeding the flakes, pellets along with some more protein rich foods like frozen or live bloodworms and bhb.

After two weeks of a smaller appetite my discus start to feed heavily. Yesterday the eat abouth 1 1/2 times the normal quantity. I guess this will couse a new growth spurt. I removed the sword plant and replaced it for a larger one.


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## shef

Thanks Dutch, I too am looking forward to seeing what they look like as adults. I had a hard time getting them to eat anything other than bloodworms at first but they are eating a variety now.

Kingpouiy I do buckets. I have a hose that I can use to fill the tank, but to drain it I need buckets. It kinda sucks but what can you do :lol:


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## Dutch Dude

kingpoiuy,...yes I use buckets to drain the tank and to fil it,...just like my 90 gallon Guianacara tank, 30 gallon Apisto tank and 50 gallon planted. So I have quit massive shoulders becouse of this :lol:

A PH of 7.5 is fine for domesticated discus but maybe you can lower it to PH=7 with peat.


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## kingpoiuy

Yikes, that sounds like alot of work! I'm even wishing my 30 had plumbing! I must be pathetic, haha.


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## shef

Yeah, I do buckets for my 70g,55g, 50g salt and 30g. It's a pain but I don't have any other choice. I even did it while I was pregnant (both times) :lol: . A little hard work never hurt anyone (well except the time I fell carrying a bucket of water :lol: )


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## kingpoiuy

Anyone here every breed their discus? I am building a stand for my future fry and was wondering what size is good. I saw on google results someone used a 30g but that seems small to me for a hundred or more fry till they get old enough to sell.


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## jgentry

I've raised 1 batche in a 65g. But you have to do massive water changes and start either culling or selling early. If you have a good amount survive you will need an additional tank or 2. After the first batch I moved my pair back into the show tank. Way to much work unless it's just something you really enjoy. If you have a proven pair and want to raise fry I'd strongly advise setting up the fry tank completely plumbed for autochanges. Changing 90% of the water twice a day gets to be rediculous without having it plumbed up to where you turn on the drain, empty the tank, turn on the pump and fill it back up and are done.


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## ksane

I got 4 Discus a couple months ago, great fish. They're 2"-4" around or so and in a 55 gal with a 1 1/2" Raphael catfish. I'm not sure how most of you do it, but I keep them in my hard tap water as quite a few on SimplyDiscus do. Nitrates are kept well below 5 with 50% water changes twice a week with the Python hose. They haven't lost color in the hard water and their appetite is awesome. They'll eat any kind of food from a can or bag, their favorite is frozen bloodworms (of course). 
Here's my favorite, named her Delaney.


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## kingpoiuy

Cool, nice looking fish!

We ordered our first discus and they are going to be shipped out tonight and arriving in the morning on friday! I'm very excited. We got 4 red cover and 3 blue snake skin at about 2 inches each.

We got them from sunrisetropicals.com.

Ill post pics when we get them! yay.


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## ksane

Hey!! 2 of my Discus are guarding eggs! I just saw them a little while ago. I had to tell the Oscar board 1st  I've got them in real hard water and they're nitrates never ever get over 5 ppm. I know the eggs won't hatch because the water's too hard. But I'm getting an RO unit and maybe the next time or 2 I can have baby Discus.
I've only had them 6 wks today. Is it unusual for them to already pair off and lay eggs? It's the 3 1/2" Super Red Melon (in the above pic) and the 4" White Butterfly. I've got 6 Cory Cats and a Raphael in there with them. The eggs are on a vertical intake tube. Is that normal?
I guess I better get that RO unit ordered!


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## jgentry

Congrats on your discus pairing off. Discus usually won't breed until about a year old. My only concern would be that at 1 year old your fish should be a little larger. My discus did not start pairing off until they were all over a year old and around 5-6 inches. That being said you could just have a pair that are spawning at an earlier then normal age. :thumb: Do you know how old the fish were when you got them? Also, were did you buy them from? Like you said, if you want to raise fry you will need to soften your water. It is normal for them to lay eggs on filter intakes. Once you soften you water change you filter out for a sponge filter and add a few flat rocks and peices of PVC for them to spawn on. Good luck.


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## kingpoiuy

Ok, here's the first pics! Not the greatest but the guy said to keep it dark for a while till they get acclimated. Yay, I'm happy!


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## Akere

Congrats, kingpoiuy, looking forward to some better pics soon!


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## kingpoiuy

Got some more Pics! They are in the tank now and seem to be doing fine. They are all huddled in the corner but I think they are just scared. Hopefully they will come out and swim around later.

My wife did an excellent job acclimating them. I was at work so she got to do all the fun stuff :wink:

She took the pictures too:


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## ksane

*jgentry*
I got them from Rocky Mnt Discus but I have no idea of their age. They're still guarding the eggs and all the eggs are brown. I know they're not 'undersized' because they've grown over an inch just since I've had them in 6 wks. So they're probably just youngsters playing house


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## jgentry

Al at Rocky Mountain is a good guy and usually has some really good stock. So you should have some pretty nice fish.


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## exasperatus2002

I had a 55 gal. dutch tank with 1 male cobalt and 2 female (sisters) red turquoise discus. They used to breed for me. One day with one sis and then next day with the other. Talk about beautiful! One night he got wedged head first in between two branches on a piece of drift wood which held his gills closed and I found him dead in the morning. I never thought I'd ever cry over a fish till I lost him. I tore down the tank gave the ladies to my brother.

[/list]


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## Dutch Dude

Ksan,...congrats on the first spawn :thumb:

Kingpoiuy,...nice fish and looking good! :thumb: So will your wife clean the tank as well when you are at work? :wink: I guess she leaves the best part for you right, haha! Any way,..it is nice to share the hobby


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## kingpoiuy

Yeah, I am usually the one who does the cleaning. 

It is great that she and I are both into it. I see so many people on here who have to convince their spouse to let them do this or that. I'm lucky. 8)


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## Dutch Dude

> I see so many people on here who have to convince their spouse to let them do this or that.


 :lol: Thats why I am single :wink:


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## ksane

This pair ate their eggs last weekend, which I expected because they're young parents. But now they've got another batch of brown eggs. Just how often do Discus breed anyway?
I was looking up the color inheritance and white is supposedly dominant. One is a white Butterfly and the other is a Super Red Melon, it looks like I'd end up with white Discus which happens to be my least favorite color. So I don't think I'll go to the trouble of setting them up in their own tank.
I'm just really surprised they've already got another batch of eggs less than a week later. Not even a sandwich in-between. 
Even Dennis Leary needs a sandwich!


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## kingpoiuy

> Not even a sandwich in-between.
> Even Dennis Leary needs a sandwich!


 :lol:

Sounds like you have quite a pair! And probably some really nice water conditions.


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## ksane

I *don't *have soft water though, nitrates stay under 5 though. I guess the Discus aren't feeling the hardness, or evidently it's not stressing them if they do.


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## cc_woman

Hey guys, you all have some very beautiful discus there  I currently keep discus, have been for about 6 months now, it has been a bit of a roller coaster ride for me though. I unfortunately did not know as much then as I know now, so I did end up losing some. I keep mine in a pH of 7.6 and KH of about 13. I will be hooking up RO/DI soon though and acclimating mine slowly until I reach a desired pH of around 6.5. They are also kept at 86F, it was recommended to me to do so for now, but I might lower it to 84 once I really get the handle on things. I have 6 of them in a 90 gallon tank, bare bottom, not much deco, and only a few wysteria plants. I like using live plants because it helps with algae growth and keeping the nitrates low. I do wc's at least 3 times a week, at about 40-50%. I am trying out feeding them several times a day, which right now some of them are still not eating much. I have had a struggle with getting them to eat, have any of you ever had that problem? I try to feed them as many frozen foods as possible compared to the pellets. Most of them don't like the NLS discus formula, which sucks because I swear by the NLS otherwise. I am trying to still find homes for some of the tankmates I have in with them, it was also suggested to me I keep a species only tank. I think that maybe the other fish might still be stressing them out, although the other fish totally ignore the discus. I don't know if it's just my luck or what, have any of you had so much difficulty in keeping your first discus? Anyhow here are some pics of them, the 2 largest ones are some WC's I bought.


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## ksane

My 4 Discus I got 6 wks ago were my 1st. I had expected it to be difficult because everyone seems to think they are. But mine have been super easy to take care of and eat everything-frozen, fresh or bagged. My water is gh 300 and kh 28, real hard. Some people went so far as to tell me they'd "die". But they've grown like crazy, just laid eggs again the 2nd time in a week and are real personable.
I keep mine different that you do. I've got soft sand on the bottom and lots of driftwood (in the wild that's what they've got) at 83 degrees with Cory Cats. I actually *just *raised their temp from 81 degrees after the 1st batch of eggs if the truth be told. I do a 50% WC on Wed and a 50% on Sat and they're nitrates don't get any higher than about 3 or 4 ppm. That's where I keep the Oscar's tanks, too. I decided I was going to just "treat them like Cichlids" since that's what they are. The Discus take wafers away from the Corys so I don't think they stress the Discus. 
I don't baby them or wear kid gloves around them, they're used to me in their tank all the time and that sort of stuff. I'm starting to wonder if I just got extremely lucky.


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## cc_woman

Lol, I am thinking that you just got lucky. Mine all used to be in a planted tank with a sand substrate. My larger discus are even aggressive towards some of the other fish in the tank. But some other discus owners told me to go bare tank and species only. Which is what I am on the way to doing. My WC's never did eat dried foods. So I have always had to feed them bloodworms at quite frequent occasions. I used to do 2 WC's a week, and feed them once a day. I have recently read in a book to feed them 3-4 times a day, and to try and get them eating gel based foods. I guess if they do this it will be easier to give them meds if need be. For the last couple of days now when I feed them BW, only a couple will actually eat them. I don't know if it's because I bought a different brand or what. Tonight I noticed white feces from one of the ones not eating, I have put in some metranidizole in the water. Since he is not eating this will be the best way to get the medicine in his system. It seems every time I turn around something is going on with them. The thing is I have been successfully keeping 11 other tanks without major problems. So I don't know what is so wrong with these guys.

I still cannot believe how high your KH and stuff is. And especially to successfully keep them. Just keep an eye on them for a few more months. Most of my problems started happening after a couple. I guess it eventually catches up to them. Almost like getting no sleep for days, and eventually it catches up to us. I hope you do have WAY better luck with them than me. Although I have been having a rough time, they are a pretty hardy fish when you experience it.


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## ksane

Metro won't do anything for parasites if that's what you meant by the white poo.
General Cure works great for parasites though (has Prazi in it).
A lot of people on other Discus forums keep their's in this hard and even harder water. When they want to breed them they soften it with RO water. But their fish all do wonderful, too. For years on end.


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## cc_woman

It said on a site that metro would help with internal parasites. Guess I won't be using that chart again. I will have to go down to the LFS tomorrow morning and grab some general cure. I have used it before too and I found it worked good. Thanks for that, I guess I should have read numerous sites before using the metro. Well I guess my water hardness will not be part of the equation to my situation then. I am glad though to see other's not having a tough time. I know it can get discouraging at times, and some people may even give up. They are too beautiful of a fish to give up on keeping


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## kingpoiuy

It took mine about 3 days before they really started being brave about eating. Now they will go for it pretty quick. We feed them blood worm 'gum drops'. they aren't gummy they are just shaped the same. It's just a frozen blood worm pellet. It sinks to the bottom and they feed off the bottom. They where very scared of everything at first but they are getting more and more brave by the day.

I don't have a tester for GH or KH, Just PH and hardness. (typical strip tester)


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## star rider

I have been keeping discus for over 2 yrs. I learned much from our own Apistomaster(larry w)

I raised mine in more difficult settings planted tank with lots of water changes and lots of food.

I was doing 3 50% water changes per week.

word of caution with internal parasites.
some med will have no effect on some. capillaria is a protozoan worm and is not affected by metro or prazi..same can be said for camallanus.

levamisole or fenbendazole or flubendazole has show to be effective. the meds are most effective if fed to the fish but can be effective in a bath.


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## takasumi

Hello all. I was just passing through and happened to stumble upon this wonderful topic. 
Discus rock! I love the little buggers!

Let's see....I have a few tanks. 13 discus total. 
2 fire dragon discus. 1 marlb. 1 alenquer(King Tut) 1 green snake skin(shakey Snakey) 1 red pigeon blood(pigey gidge) 1 pigeon blood(Cleopatra) 1 brown discus(Flippy) 1 Hi fin Blue diamond(Blue) 1 sunset/sunrise? Not sure of the title? (Sunny) 1 red turk(Ruth) 1 beautiful color and marking that I haven't found a name for (Bathsheba) 1 other unfound title (New Guy)

I use 80 r/o and 20 tap. Ph of tap is around 8.0 and Gh is around 420. (Yeah...not ideal for discus!

I've been keeping these guys and gals for a little over 3 months now and they're as easy as goldfish!

I trained my discus to eat from my hand. I do twice weekly 50% water changes.

They follow the children around the rooms begging for their next meal.

My loud vaccum doesn't phase them.

Great fish! Just like dogs! So loyal and friendly!


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## takasumi

Hello all. I was just passing through and happened to stumble upon this wonderful topic. 
Discus rock! I love the little buggers!

Let's see....I have a few tanks. 13 discus total. 
2 fire dragon discus. 1 marlb. 1 alenquer(King Tut) 1 green snake skin(shakey Snakey) 1 red pigeon blood(pigey gidge) 1 pigeon blood(Cleopatra) 1 brown discus(Flippy) 1 Hi fin Blue diamond(Blue) 1 sunset/sunrise? Not sure of the title? (Sunny) 1 red turk(Ruth) 1 beautiful color and marking that I haven't found a name for (Bathsheba) 1 other unfound title (New Guy)

I use 80 r/o and 20 tap. Ph of tap is around 8.0 and Gh is around 420. (Yeah...not ideal for discus!

I've been keeping these guys and gals for a little over 3 months now and they're as easy as goldfish!

I trained my discus to eat from my hand. I do twice weekly 50% water changes.

They follow the children around the rooms begging for their next meal.

My loud vaccum doesn't phase them.

Great fish! Just like dogs! So loyal and friendly!


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## ksane

Uh-oh, I lied but not on purpose. I'd posted my kh was 28. I haven't tested it since I got the Discus 6 wks ago because I've been just using my tap water. I got that test mixed up with all the others but my kh is 14, *not *28. Still hard water but not as hard as I'd mistakely said.
I've got a 30 gal set up for the pair to see what may become of it. I'm going to mix RO water to get a kh of 4-5 and hope for the best. They're already breeding in the community tank with hard water so I'll see what happens.


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## ksane

Double post.
It seems I'm not the only one having problems with that


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## cc_woman

Well at least it is posting. Seems to take 5 minutes for my posts to finish sometimes. Lol I was wondering if 28 was even possible for a water hardness. That would have made an extremely high pH of probably at least 9, which I don't think any discus could live in long term. You have some nice sounding discus the takasumi, would love to see some pics


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## ksane

My pH is 8. But I pay no attention at all to pH, just kh and gh since fish don't 'feel' the pH, just the hardness/softness.


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## cc_woman

They don't? I always thought there was a difference in pH and hardness, since pH measures the alkalinity of the water, and GH/KH were the measure of minerals, or dissolved solids in the water. If you have peat or driftwood in your tank, or possibly other things that can affect pH like coral, and some types of rocks, it really does make the pH matter. Your KH may or may not stay the same, and with that comes different pH's. I pay close attention to pH, since I do not want to have any large swings of it for any reason.


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## ksane

cc_woman said:


> They don't? I always thought there was a difference in pH and hardness, since pH measures the alkalinity of the water, and GH/KH were the measure of minerals, or dissolved solids in the water. If you have peat or driftwood in your tank, or possibly other things that can affect pH like coral, and some types of rocks, it really does make the pH matter. Your KH may or may not stay the same, and with that comes different pH's. I pay close attention to pH, since I do not want to have any large swings of it for any reason.


GH (general hardness) is the measuremnet of all the minerals (for lack of a better way to explain). KH is the carbonate hardness measurement. Fish absolutely don't "feel" pH. What they feel is the hardness of the water-the TDS (total dissolved solids). pH is basically a layman's term because few people understand TDS, kh & gh. pH is only an indicator. If you've got hard water the buffereing capacity (KH) is high enough that it resists changes up OR down-either direction. You could put peat or limestone in hard water and it wouldn't change the kh or gh a single bit. But if you soften the water by mixing in RO water then limestone could feasably harden it because the softened water has less buffereing capacity and can't resist change very well. 
You can do your own reseach and look it up yourself if you don't believe me-but pH is useless to check. You need to be checking your kh-because *that's *how soft or hard your water is in reality. A certain very well known Discus breeder didn't even know this, I was so shocked I almost dropped the phone. I won't name names, but I'm increasingly surprised at how many fish-keepers don't understand ph/kh/gh/tds.
Like I said-I'm not going to argue or debate it. But feel free to do your own reseach keeping in mind that a lot of forums posters don't understand it either.


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## kingpoiuy

Excelent post *ksane*, I learned some things from it!


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## takasumi

I will send some pics! I love my fish so much. Maybe not as much as my children do though? they write and act out plays about our discus all the time! Such enthusiasm at a young age!

anyway. Posting is a royal pain right now. This is why I'm not even going to try to send pics at this time. (that might take an hour! :lol: )


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## cc_woman

I never read anywhere that pH was useless to check, since in some of my tanks I have to check pH since I am using CO2 injection. In cases like that I think it is extremely important to check pH, because the CO2 can cause pH fluctuations without affecting the KH. So you are right in some ways, but there are those few situations where people should still check pH. I do however know the pH and KH relationship since I researched everything for means of lowering my hardness. But thank you for posting that, many people probably didn't know that stuff 

takasumi, I totally know what you mean, one of my posts took about 1/2 hour yesterday just to load and refresh lol.


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## ksane

I should've specified that I wasn't talking about planted tanks, sorry.
I've got a similar problem with my well water. It's so far underground that the undissolved CO2 causes the pH to read low, yet the TDS is the same. That's why I have to age anything over a 50% water change, so I don't deprive the fish of oxygen.


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## cc_woman

Yeah if people have well water they probably should be checking pH too before taking chances. Otherwise you are right, if you do nothing special to your water then KH and GH is probably all they need.


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## Dutch Dude

CC-woman,.....the white poo can have several causes. One can be worms. Worms can be treated with flubendazole, levamisole or fenbendazole like mentioned by star rider. An other reason for white poo can be flagellates. Flagellates can couse illnesses like Bloat and hole in head. An outbreak of such an illness is always related to poor conditions and stress. Flagellates can be treated with metronidazole (metro) or dimetridazole. Metronidazole only works when fish get food soaked in a mix of tankwater and metro. Dimetridazole does seem to have effect if added to the water as well.

Worms,....fish become skinny, sometimes worms hang out of the anus.

Flagellates,....fish look poor, breath heavy, pick up the foods and spit it out, refuse to feed, hang in a corner, get swollen belly and die (Bloat). Or,....get small holes in their head with yellowish stuff coming out of it (hole in head).

I expect the troubles with your fish have several reasons. You only feed 1 time a day,....even with small youngsters! Thats not enough food! Youngsters of 2 to 3 inch need at least 5 feeds a day! Along with so many feeds you need to do large water changes at least every other day around 65%. You also mixed wc fish and domesticated. Thats often a no go especially on more delicate species. The wc fish can easely infect the domesticated fish with bacteria of paresites from their natural habitat. The wc fish are used to it and resistant but the wc aren't! The temp of your water is high,... 82 to 84 would be nice. Overall,.....would the fish do well on your hard water? I suggest to go to PH=7 to PH=6.5 and a GH=5 to GH=8. That would be nice water for (most) discus.

So far I have had no difficulties with the discus. I only have some planaria and they probably feed on small food particles (mostly beefheart and left over frozen). So I need to cut back a bit on food to control the number of planaria. The discus slowly start to feed on pellets but they accept frozen and live foods very well. I do a 70% wc every other day and feed them 4 to 5 times a day. I treat the discus just like a cichlid only pay more atention to food and water qualety. They feed from my hand, I need to push them aside during cleaning, I jump in the water from the bucket when filling the tank during a wc. They seem to like the curent and swim after small particles that stir up. No stress no problems and no skittish behaviour. Their tank mates are abouth 50 cherry shrimp and so far 1 Peckoltia sp. I will add rummy nose later on.


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## cc_woman

Well so far the only thing I can see is white stringy poop. I have not noticed him getting bloated, skinny, or have any pits forming on his head (I have seen what HITH looks like on a friends fish) I have not seen any worms hanging from any of the fish either, that was one of the things I have been keeping an eye on. So basically his symptoms are the white poop, does not eat, hides, but he has not changed his color, and he breathes a little heavier than normal. So what med should I be using? I really want to give him the proper treatment asap before something bad does happen.

I was always doing 50% water changes on their tank usually once a week, sometimes twice, but 2.5 weeks ago I upped that to 3-4 50% water changes a week, and this week I have been doing 60% water changes every single day, yesterday being a 75%wc. I have also been trying to feed them at least 3-4 times a day for the past couple of weeks. It's not that I take horrible care of my fish, every single other tank I have, have never had any problems with disease or anything, and I keep over 50 other species of cichlids. It has mainly been my discus tank that I have had problems with.

I was told it was ok to mix wc with domestic if I QT them first. The store I bought them from QT'd them for 2 weeks, then I qt'd them for another 2 weeks after getting them home. I know people who have even successfully bred their discus in my cities water, and some people keep theirs in even harder water, so that should not be an issue AT ALL. I was told also to raise the temp up to 86 degrees until things get better, by a couple of other discus keepers. So me having it there is not my fault, I am just doing as I have been told. I will lower it to 84 though.

I have been trying to feed them at least 4 times a day now, for the past 2 weeks. No one told me I shouldn't keep young ones with adults, they only said as long as I get 2 or more young ones they should be fine, which is what I did and the other young one I got at the same time died, as the other would not accept food from day one. I am telling you that I have been trying my best, and I cannot help if I have gotten wrong advice from people. I know it was my fault with the first discus I kept, because I didn't know hardly anything about them then. I am learning from my mistakes, and I am sure everyone else made mistakes with fish too when they first started out. Unfortunately I did not know much about fish forums either when I first started keeping them. But I am trying my best to fix things, and make things right. The other 2 that weren't eating have slowly been starting to eat again, so I have confidence that they will pull through, it is just my WC I am worried about right now. He stopped eating about a week ago, and I noticed the white poo 3 days ago.


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## Dutch Dude

Is only the WC fish having white poo??? If so,....do you have a quarantine facility? If so I would put him over to the Q-tank. If the other fish also have white stringy poo I suggest to treat all the fish.

The symptoms do sound like flagellates and is the same like first signs of bloat. You don't see worms and the fish isn't skinny. The bloating of the belly only occurs in the last stage of the Bloat. Once fish with Bloat stop feeding the change they cure are very small. I suggest to treat with metronidazole (Metro) like suggested in an other post. You can take a cup of tank water and dissolve a small amounth of Metro in it. Mix it well and soak some pellets or flakes in it and then feed at the fish. I also suggest to treat the entire tank. The most effective will be the medication soaked food. Keep your tank spotless clean and do 60% water changes every day and add the metro for the new clean water. I suggest to do this for at least 5 day's. The dosage of meds comes with the bottle and stick to it. When the meds work and the fish start to cure you can stop adding the meds to the water but I would recommend to keep on feeding the meds soaked food for an other 5 day's or so. Keep up with the large daily water changes for at least the next 3 weeks and slowely go back to a normal routine of every other day at least 50%. When the fish don't cure after 5 day's I suggest to come to the board again and tell us abouth the symptoms and changes. It still can be worms after all or the fish is to ill to cure. So lets keep fingers crossed and good luck with the treatment and job of all the water changes.

I do once a week a 50% to 65% wc on my Guianacara tank and my Bolivian tank without problems. Fish like discus satanoperca and apistogramma do require clean soft water. If they don't get it they often become ill. Those species are sensitive for flagellates and unfortunately that's an internal parasite that is hard to combat. That is why species like that are known to be delicate. They realy aren't as long you keep to some simple rules like 3 times a week at least 50% water change. Multiple feeds of high qualety (protein rich) foods, low stock levels and right temperature.

This is a hard lessen and I hope your fish manage. I hope you will catch up on info abouth discus and their needs.

When Discus are realy ill you can raise the temp to 86!!! When fish aren't ill I suggest to keep them at 82 to 84.



> I know it was my fault with the first discus I kept, because I didn't know hardly anything about them then. I am learning from my mistakes, and I am sure everyone else made mistakes with fish too when they first started out. Unfortunately I did not know much about fish forums either when I first started keeping them. But I am trying my best to fix things, and make things right.


We all make mistakes and hopefully we learn from it. The goal should be to learn abouth the fish before you buy them! It took me quit some time to finally make the decision to buy some. I read books, checked lots articles and read on forums and get a awful lot of info from Larry (apistomaster) who keeps and breed discus for 4 decades. I still learn and still check for info and discus with Larry. I will keep on doing it to become more knowledgeable and experienced in keeping discus.

For now I suggest to keep up with the water changes and treatment with metro and gather some info abouth the care and differences between wild and domesticated specimen. I found simplydiscus.com helpful. You can also gather some more info abouth Bloat and flagellates. Unfortunately I have had this issue with bad qualety apistogramma from the Czech republic.

Good luck and pleas keep us posted abouth the development.


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## cc_woman

Dutch Dude said:


> Is only the WC fish having white poo??? If so,....do you have a quarantine facility? If so I would put him over to the Q-tank. If the other fish also have white stringy poo I suggest to treat all the fish.


I don't have an extra tank at the moment, although if I had to I can move my fry out of the grow out tank and into a bucket for now. I am trying to sell off some of my fish, but of course being summer it has been difficult. Yes it is only the WC fish that has the white poop. The other 2 are eating some, they are just pretty skinny, so they should pull through. If it is bloat it's contagious isn't it? How can I feed him food with the metro if he's not eating? I just want to avoid stressing him out any more than I have to. I will continue with daily water changes, and I have to pick up more meds today. I know now to research fish before buying them.

My boyfriend knew I loved discus and he was the one who went out and bought a couple for me in the first place. I thought I knew enough about them to keep them, but I know now that I didn't and should have researched them extensively. I was reading rocky mountain discus's web site, and they said to try and get the fish eating gel based foods. What are they, and where can I get them from?

I will definitely keep up the treatments of metro.


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## ksane

If the new fish (wild caught or not) has parasites, it's still going to have parasites 2 wks later after sitting in a quarrantine tank unless you've treated it with a parasite medicine while it's _in _quarrantine. That's the reason we *use *quarrantine-to treat fish in case they have something so our established fish don't get it. Unless I'm not understanding what you meant and you *did *treat.
I use Praziquantel 1st thing always and watch for signs of other parasites the Prazi doesn't cover.
Edit: My experience has not been with wild caught Discus though, I was talking about the other wild caught cichlids and plecs I've gotten.


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## cc_woman

The store I bought them from treats WC for parasites before selling them. So I figured to not worry about them. I just QT'd them to make sure I could tell they were healthy before putting them in.


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## Dutch Dude

Dimetridazole is will dissolve better in the water and give the largest change to combat flagellates at fish that already refuse to feed. You can get if at the veterinary.

I realy have know idea abouth the gel based foods. I can only think of Tetra fresh delica but my discus refuse that to eat. Thats becouse they are picky and spoiled :wink: Common used foods are a high qualety sinking pellet, beefheart blend, bloodworms, artemis and daphnia.

The problem with wilds and domesticated mixed is that the wilds contain paresites that can be transferred to the domesticated and the domesticated illnesses that can be transferred to the wilds. Domesticated fish are at a certain level used to some of the parasites that occur in our tanks but aren't used to the parasites out of the wild. The same for the wild fish towards the parasites in the domesticated fish. As long fish are healthy, have a good environment, good qualety food and low or no stress they be fine. If stress shows up or water qualety becomes poor or they don't receive enough or poor qualety food the problems begin. The health of the fish becomes poor and the parasites start to multiply and couse an illness like Bloat or HITH.

Looking back to your situation they were stressed becouse of the move to the new tank, there weren't enough water changes, the didn't get enough food and you mixed wild and domesticated of diferent ages and size. Enough bad situations to couse the curent problems.

Flagellates are contagious but only give troubles with weakened or stressed fish in poor conditions.

So,....keep up the water changes and meds. I also suggest to feed live foods like daphnia in an attempt to get the wild to feed. Once it is feeding it can be fed with med soaked food. If he refuse to feed his changes of curing become small.

I made my point at gather info before people buy fish. It is clear now that you thought you could handle discus becouse you do handle lots of diferent cichlids and even spawn them. It is a hard lesson but your now catching up and doing your very best to save the fish. Thats positive :thumb:

Prazi is great for worm treatment by the way. Useful but for now flagellates are probably causing the white poo.


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## jgentry

You'll have to excuse the checkerboard pigion. It was given to me in pretty poor condition as a juvi. At one point it didn't eat for a month. It's been eating good for about 7 months now and has grown to about 5 inches and it's pattern is starting to fill in, but i't never going to have a good shape.


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## Dutch Dude

jgentry,...nice fish :thumb: Except for the odd shape of the pigion blood but he does seem to do fine right now. I like the red turq (or is it a red scribbled?) on pic 3 the most. What a nice fish!

Maybe you can tel us some more abouth your feeding and water change regime and so on?


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## jgentry

Thanks Dutch Dude. A guy at work gave me the checkerboard pigion . He bought 8 juvi's and lost all but that one. It was nearly dead when I got it. Really bad fluke infection. It's doomed to look like a football for the rest of it's life, but it's growing and happy. I call the one in picture 3 a red turk, but I call all discus that color a red turk.

The tank is a 72g bow front planted tank with CO2 injection. I have 2 XP3 canister for filtration. I do an 80% water change every 3rd day with aged tap water and alternate cleaning the canisters every 2 weeks. I have 7 discus that range from 5 inches to 6 1/2 and 2 BN plecos, and 5 sterbia cory's. I feed 4 times a day (still trying to get some more growth, I would like them all to reach at least 6 1/2 inches), I feed beefheart as soon as I get up, tetracolor flakes right before I walk out the door for work, spectrum discus formula when I get home, and beefhart again when I go to bed. I feed bloodworms maybe once a week as a treat.

I initailly had the tank setup bare bottom when the fish were juvi's and was feeding 6 times a day and doing 50% water changes daily with aged water. I added gravel and plants once all of the fish were well over 4 inches. If you want big round discus, water changes are the key and lots of food. Otherwise your fish will look like my checkerboard pigion, like a big eyed football.


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## Dutch Dude

:lol: Yeah the football shaped discus is not to attractive to watch but you saved him and so far he seem to be healthy :thumb:

Your red turq. looks a lot like mine. I bought Stendker discus but the guy from the shop probably mixed some up. Most likely they are red turq. or red scribbled (red turq with a diferent patern and stronger red) I realy like that fish! I also like the turquase of pic 4. I have to say I like more the natural colors so the other fish don't look bad but I'm not a big fan of those color morphs. All fish look healthy.

So far you treat your fish roughly the same as I do. Lots of large water changes and heavy foods. Mine aren't that fund on pellets and flakes but slowly they are willing to except some. I think I spoiled mine with the live and frozen foods.

So your big eye football pigion is the smallest fish in the tank right? :lol: I'm keeping discus for the first time and bought 8 fish of 3 inch. Originally I bought 8 alenquer (brown discus) but 7 of them turned out to be the red turquoise (red scribbled). So I returned the only alenquer and smalest red turq to the lfs when I moved the guys out of the grow out tank. I had only 1/2 inch on sand in the grow out and I did feed 6 times a day and did a daily wc of 60%. They have grown quit rapidly to 4 inch and after that slowed down in growth. It seems that when discus reach the 4 inch they significantly slow down in growth. They are now just over 4 inch and didn't grown much for the last 5 weeks or so. The colors did change and I notice a change in body shape. The seem to become more round and start to look more like an adult discus. I also like to grow them to at least 6 1/2 inch and hopefully they reach the 8 inch. If I succeed in that is in the future. Thanks for sharing jgentry


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## cc_woman

Great looking fish you have there jgentry. Hopefully people can learn from my mistakes.

I actually went to the LFS yesterday where I bought most of my discus from, and I told him my situation. He then recommended some fluke tabs, which will treat for different types of flukes and worms. The WC that is sick has been out more today and swimming around. He has been alot more active with the treatment. He still hasn't eaten yet, but I have high hopes of him recovering after seeing how active he has been. I am going to keep up with 75-80% water changes daily for the rest of the week, then I will try doing 75% wc's every other day....and feeding them 4x a day. Today I fed them cichlid delight (a combo of beefheart and other meats) which says it is great for discus, then I fed some tetramin flakes I purchased, then next they got some frozen brine shrimp, and I just finished feeding bloodworms. I have been to 4 stores now to get more beef heart, but either they don't carry it or they ran out of stock :x I am pretty ticked that I have not been able to get more, because my fish love the beefheart, and I usually mostly fed it to them. I might try another feeding before bed of NLS discus pellets, or try it in the morning when they are most hungry. I will try my hardest to get them to eat the pellets or flakes.

Where can I buy live daphnia from? I don't know where to get these live foods from. I know what they are, and I don't want to try and catch them from a pond or lake.


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## Dutch Dude

Live foods,....some you can breed your self. Daphnia isn't to hard and you just need a bucket with a lot of greenwater and a few daphnia to start with. You can catch them your selves in ponds but that brings along the risk of parasites. Over here they get bread just like fish. Some larger fish stores sell them. I can buy bloodworms, whiteworms, adult artemis and daphnia.

There are tons of recipe's for making your own beefheart blend! I have seen some on simplydiscus as well. In the mean time you can feed some extra frozen like bloodworms and artemis. Frozen daphnia is not the best food becouse they pop open during freezing. My fish even refuse to feed on frozen daphnia. The live once they like very much!

The heavy breeding can point at gill flukes but I can't remember your fish is dancing in the tank and itching along driftwood, plants and substrate. The fact that the fish becomes more active points at a better health. I hope he soon starts to feed. Maybe a second treatment for worms is necessary later on. Never use several treatments and meds at once unless you are a veterinary and know what you are doing! If the fish doesn't become healthy after this treatment I suggest a worm treatment. Flubendazole is a save treatment on most worms (no tap worms), and gill flukes (dactilogyres and gyrilodactus).

So far you are doing a great job with the food and the cleaning and good to hear the fish becomes more active. How is his color? Fish that feel bad become dark of color (not all domesticated strains but wilds do!).


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## cc_woman

He had never turned a darker color like I have seen them do before when stressed, he is absolutely showing all his colors right now, all his fins are standing out, he is breathing normal, and he is chasing his other WC buddy around.....payback time since the other WC would keep chasing the smaller ones around :lol: He is no longer hiding out. He never did shimmy off objects or act as if he had gill flukes. Would putting my UV sterilizer in help them out more? I am doing one treatment of meds now, and then he told me to use the carbon after this one, and do one more treatment in a week. The meds is called fluke-tabs, and is supposed to treat anchor worms, body/gill flukes, fish lice, and tape worms. Active ingredients are methyl-5-benzoyl-benzimidazole-2-carbamate and dimethyl (2,2,2,-trichloro-1-hydroxyethyl) phosphonate......Man that was hard to type on here :lol: It is supposed to be similar to clout, but just stronger. Instead of using this med again, should I try for the second dose the Flubendazole?

Live foods are so hard to get around here, without having to special order some in. I could go to a fishing store and buy live blood worms. How would I possibly create green water? I know green water is an algae bloom, but I wouldn't know the first thing to create one purposely lol. As for beef heart, I have seen a few recipes, but it seemed like such a hassle in some ways. Someone was saying they feed their fish chicken hearts, is this any good for discus? I have doubts about using it. I will check out the recipe...but in the meantime I will keep searching for the BH, and I think I will buy a few packages instead of 1 this time  Thanks for all your help, I definitely could not have done any of this without it. I think the road to recovery for all my discus looks positive. The others are all eating more, but still won't take the dry foods, though I won't give up on that.


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## Dutch Dude

> Would putting my UV sterilizer in help them out more?


IMO those things are a waste of money. You can keep the water nice clean and fresh with the water changes.

The fish improves and if he is been chasing his bud he is doing OK. So the cure with the metro and the water cleaning regime seems to work. Lets wait and see how this develops before using other stuff. Always be careful with meds especial the strong once!!! I would not treat for gill flukes if nothing point out to that.

Green water is not a problem and I'm sure some of the members on this board have it in their tanks and don't know how to get ride of it, hahaha! By now you can suggest a large quantity of daphnia :wink: Greenwater can be created by putting a tank or a bucket in high light levels and preferably sun light. Some phosphate or nitrate do the job on algea growth. If you are able to grow green water (floating algea) you can order some daphnia and breed them your selves.

To make your beefheart blend is quit a job but you will have a large amounth of food for half the price. I tried it once but added to much spirulina and didn't add a binder. The discus didn't like the taste of the spirulina and didn't liked the structure of the blend becouse of the missing binder. So I stopped cooking and bought mine at the lfs. I feed Stendker beefheart blend. When the beefheart blend would be hard to get I would definitely do some experimenting on the recipe. Some contain 20 or more ingredients but I also have seen some with around 5 ingredients or so. Chicken hearts,.....those or turkey hearts I'm not sure can also be used in stead of beefheart.

I'm glad your fish do better now and you are rapidly catching up on knowledge :thumb:


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## Dutch Dude

double post and deleted


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## cc_woman

Lol, well I have never had a problem with green algae (thank goodness) so I would have never known where to start in creating it. I will see if I can find a place I can order live daphnia from, as for the others, I will have to find a recipe for beef heart that I might want to try, and get the ingredients for it. I want to get some live brine shrimp too and start breeding that for some of my fish.

The metro was not doing much, so I put carbon in the filter for a few hours, did the 75% wc, and then I added the other meds. They didn't show signs of flukes, but the meds are also for worms, which is why I used it. I am thinking now it was some type of worms, since he was not showing signs of bloating. I did not do a wc today, since I just added the meds late last night, and want them to be in the tank at least 24 hours. So tomorrow morning I will do another wc, but should I add more carbon to remove the meds then, or wait until a day before the 2nd treatment to add the carbon to remove remaining meds?


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## kingpoiuy

Tons of great info guys, thanks!

Update on my discus. 5 of the 7 are doing really really good. They are even brave enough to come up and try to grab the food from me before I can get it in the tank. (mainly frozen bloodworm and shrimp). The other 2 are always hiding and I don't see that they eat much. I'm hoping they are just slower to get brave than the others. I have a feeling they are eating but I just don't see it. They stay very dark in color and hide in my plants.

I'm doing alot of water changes but It's hard to tell the % with my setup. I basically vacuum every other day and that is my water change.

Thank you Dutch Dude for giving us so much info. You've made my thread very nice!


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## jgentry

Glad to here your fish are acting a little better cc_woman. I agree that a UV sterilizer won't do much on a discus tank, just a waste of money in my opinion. You shouldn't need to add carbon to remove the first treatment, keep up the water changes and that will remove it.

Dutch Dude, I agree that groups of discus in one or 2 patterns look best. I purchased my 6 fish from a simply discus sponser that was cleaning out some left over stock. It was 6 random discus for $100 including shipping. I couldn't beat that price. 4 of the fish were 3 inches and the other 2 were slightly under 2inches. The 2 smallest were the blue diamond and the alenquer. My favorites are the alenquer, red turk, and the brilliant blue (I think that's what it is).


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## Dutch Dude

> Thank you Dutch Dude for giving us so much info. You've made my thread very nice


Pleas don't forget I'm new into discus! I do have some experience on diferent species but I guess all of us do.

You can measure the water height and estimate the changed water. If the tank is 20 high and you remove water until 11 high you did +/- 50% water change. The diference of 1 inch is the thickness of the substrate and partly decorations. I would recommend large water changes. For example,....every day 20% isn't enough. You lower the nitrate levels the best with large water changes. Probably the 2 darker discus are low on the picking order and need some more time. It should not take long before they brighten up.

I like the red spotted greens the best, and most of the wild colors and especially the reddish fish like alenquer santarem and the real wild reds. Of the domesticated I like red turquoise the best. Check this site,...all wild discus of several color morphs and locations. Aren't they gorgeous? This is what nature gives us and I prefer this above the domesticated. http://amazon-exotic-import.de/Gallerie ... /INDEX.htm

CC-woman,......IMO you are to soon with the other treatment!


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## kingpoiuy

Guess I should have explained myself better 

My tank is an overflow / sump setup. So the water level changes in the sump. I guess I could measure the sump level or even put a permanent mark where the 20gal mark is and the 10 gal mark is etc...

I like the natural ones better too. Next time I will probably go for that. That's an amazing site you linked.


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## kingpoiuy

Ugh, just got home and fed them. One of the blue's that was hiding ventured out for a while but that darn large red is chasing everyone away from the food. I might need to seperate him. Anyone have this kind of aggression issue with discus before? Doesn't seem like he is getting fin's or anything. He just chases them and kinda pecks at them. Guards the food.


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## Tanganyikaguy

I am having that problem with one of my fish too. it will chase the others away for a while, then it finally gets bored and lets the others eat. I think I am going to add a second feeder on the other end of the tank so everyone can eat.


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## cc_woman

Yeah I have the same problem. A couple of mine were chasing the others away at feeding time. I think eventually your discus will become braver, just takes a little time. Some of my discus hid for the first few weeks after getting them.

Dutch, I asked the Fish store owner if it was ok, and he said it should be fine, just do a good water change first and use carbon to remove any excess meds. I did that, then put the other meds in. It was a couple of days since I had last treated with the metro and the metro didn't seem to be doing much at all. This fish store is one of the best in my city, even people from other cities in my province will drive all the way here to buy fish from him. He is a very experienced person when it comes to fish, and I trust his judgment. It is not like some of these stores that have novice's working there.

I totally love the WC morphs better. They are much more gorgeous in my opinion, and if you are breeding them, you will get much more for F1 fry than you would for tank bred strains. I prefer natural over hybrids any day, and many discus color morphs out there are created through cross breeding. I think once I get my tank established, and everyone does well, I will put all my tank breds in one tank, and then get some more wc from a local source.

Thank goodness for bare bottom tanks lol. I can tell almost exactly how much of a water change I am doing. Since my eheim 2250 canister holds a good 5 gallons of water or so, I usually do what appears to be 80% wc's, which is actually only about 75%.


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## cc_woman

Guys, I am extremely ecstatic right now  My WC that was not eating ate a few blood worms tonight!!!!!! That mean ALL of them are now eating....which could possibly mean they are a-ok :thumb: I could not have done it without your help!!


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## Dutch Dude

kingpoiuy, wel you can check the height in the sump and calculate the removed water,....or measure it buy retrieving the water with buckets and cont them (and measure the capacety of the buckets).

Mine also quarrel short after I introduce the food. Probably your red is the dominant fish. He wants to keep it this way and for that he needs to be the largest and healthiest fish. So he claims all the food so he is in advantage of the other fish. When he is stuffed he will let the other fish feed and take some rest from chasing. I feed the beefheart from my hands and no quarreling going on at that moment. When I put in frozen or live or pellets I divide them around in one corner of the tank so every fish will have a chance. The dominant fish will try to defend this aria but it is to big. So if he chases one fish an other fish will pick some of "his" food. I keep the foods in one aria (more easy to keep an eye on what has been eaten) but make the spot large enough so everyone will get his share. If you would take out this fish a new one will become dominant and will act the same. So taking one out doesn't solve the problem and probably isn't necessary.


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## kingpoiuy

Ok, I've started to put a "gum drop" of frozen food on each side of the tank and I think it's working. Last night before the lights turned off they where all out and swimming. I think it's getting better a little bit at a time. You are right the big red is the dominate one. He is very pretty too!


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## Dutch Dude

Good to hear it worked out OK! Ooh and keep in mind not put the food to close to the filter intake so it will end in there in stead of in their belly. :wink:


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## kaphil

Ok, I have a query which I hope someone can explain to me...why do discus need higher temperatures than 'normal' tropical fish? I have only ever kept discus as single specimens in peaceful community tanks, and by and large they've done OK (temp around 78-80). I'm not doubting those who recommend higher temperatures - everyone seems to agree with it, I just don't understand why it should be. High temperatures are not recommended for those fish with which (to the best of my knowledge) discus would be sympatric in the wild, so why do discus need to be treated differently? is there an identified biological reason, or is the theory purely based on observation?
Grateful for comments........


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## kingpoiuy

I don't know the answer but based on what I do know added to a total guess. I would say being that they are more fragile fish than most. The higher temp helps to fight health issues...

Good guess or bad?


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## Dutch Dude

kingpoiuy,....I think you have a good point there. There are more species of fish that need those higher temps like Rams and most of the apisto's also apreciate that. Those 2 species are also the more delicate once. Lets not forget that probably the natural habitat also is involved. I guess Heiko Bleher is the one who could answer this question perfectly.


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## kingpoiuy

Honestly until I read the post I had never even thought about it. I just figured it was because they lived in warmer water naturally. Then he mentioned the other fish they live with don't need warmer water so I made a guess. :wink:


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## kaphil

Yes, what you are saying there makes sense, but (you can probably guess what's coming here) it means that in this scenario it would suggest that high temperatures are perhaps being used to disguise an underlying problem, eg. inadequate water quality, unsuitable diet, (and bare tanks?). As in any fish, high temp's will speed up metabolism, and in the long term this could (followng the hypothesis) lead to physical stresses being placed on the fish and a shortened life span, even if in the short term it helps stave off disease etc. 
Just a thought.......


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## kingpoiuy

Interesting thoughts, hopefully someone can chime in and lead us to more good info. Sofar my discus seem as hardy as any but time will tell.


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