# Metal stand questions



## bartho14 (Feb 26, 2009)

Greetings! hey everyone, im a new member to this site with a question maybe you guys can help me with. Im very close to moving my 90 gal malawi tank into a larger 140 gal Hagen tank i recently got, which will sit atop a 72x19x24 metal tubular stand. Whats the deal with these metal stands?

-will it be able to support all the weight of the filled aquarium (1200-1500lbs)?
-do i need to add any support to the centre? bc there is none at all.
-is it also prone to rust quickly like *** been hearing?
-should i be laying some plywood in between the tank and stand?
-should i be laying some plywood under the legs of the stand?

Id appreciate some help if anyone has dealt with these stands before, because if something terrible happened id be beyond upset.

Thx all


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

If it were me, I'd ask myself some questions.

Was it made by the tank manufacturer for this specific tank?

Has it been set up on this stand previously? If so, how long was it running?

When filled, do the horizontal supports bow downward at all, even slightly?

Regarding plywood, no and no. Definitely no under the legs and you shouldn't need it under the tank if 
the stand supports the four corners properly. When sitting on the stand, there should be no corner to 
corner wobble. If there is, some resolve such things with foam. I prefer to use a proper stand myself.

So, last question if the above were answered satisfactorily, is there any corner to corner wobble when 
the tank is on the stand and empty?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

I would always use styrofoam with tube stands... I've yet to see a commercial tube stand with zero burs or other minor defects. Styrofoam allows burs to cut up into the foam instead of hitting the unforgiving glass or black plastic trim. As for weight support, I've never worried about it if it was a commercial stand... they set the diameter of the stand to support the weight plus extra...

Hope that helps.


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## bartho14 (Feb 26, 2009)

Hey Tim,
Thanks a lot for your response. The stand is brand new, a generic one purchased from 'Big Al's Aquariums', made by a company to match particular dimensions of aquariums. The tank itself was purchased used and has yet to be united with its new stand (still about a week away, loooong story). The stand is rather inexpensive and looks quite thin, thats the main reason behind most of my concern about its safety. Anyhow, i guess ill know more when i get a chance to place the tank on the stand in about a week or so, then ill check for those wobbles and bows u mentioned.

Thx,
Brett


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

my 150g tank sits on a stand made up of L and C section steel lengths designed for industrial shelving...ie very cheap and very strong. Just cut it to your own requirements.

the tank itself then sits on marine ply with styrofoam inbetween.

this stand isnt shifting one mm.










obviously i plan to make a wooden enclosure for it at some stage.


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## 12 Volt Man (Sep 22, 2008)

your stand should be fine. I have the same stand from Big Als' made of 1.5 inch steel tubing. they say it supports the weight better than any of the pre fab wood stands.

I have my 150 gallon sitting on it.

I have been using these steel stands from Big Als for about 18 years now. they are made in Hamilton from a company called Hamilton Manufacturing. they have a website too.

pics of my 150 gallon and stand can be found here:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... p?t=186451


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## 12 Volt Man (Sep 22, 2008)

I didnt use foam between my tank and stand as foam is not recommended for tanks with a 'floating bottom' (ie braced on bottom) as my Aqueon 150 gallon is.

the stand will get some surface rust over the years, but every few years, I just sand and refinish them.

they last forever.

I even have my 65 saltwater on them, which you can see in the thread link..

that obviously rusts quicker than the freshwater one though


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## bartho14 (Feb 26, 2009)

Hey 12 Volt/other posters, Yes! thats the exact stand i was refering to. I just recently/finally united my tank with its stand, cleaned it, filled it with heavy rocks and water to the top and let it sit for a couple days. Notta problem to report  so im quite pleased and will hopefully shift the fishies to their new home tomorrow. Thanks for all your help guys, ill post a pic when all is said and done, I can promise it wont look nearly as good as 12 Volt's though.

Hey, one last question. Should I or shouldnt I use styrofoam with my Hagen tank? if youve ever seen the bottom of a hagen tank you'll know what im talking about, its not flat, it has a raised perimeter and has no center brace on the bottom.

Cheers


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Take a piece of paper and see if you can slip it under the tank (between the tank and frame) .That will tell you if the tank is touching the frame all the way around.


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## bartho14 (Feb 26, 2009)

I knew there was gonna be a problem!!! arrrg!! I setup the tank yesterday with the styrofoam, added the substrate(100lbs), rocks(200lbs) and transferred the fish. As the tank was nearly full, there was substantial bowing at the front in the middle, i measured 5/8"(which i thought was kinda much), i continued to fill to the top with water when i heard two large cracking noises, as if a weld had cracked or from the metal bending from absorbing the weight. I raced for buckets and drained 2/3 of the water as well as the rocks. There appeared to be no cracks in the welds, i called Big Al's with concern and they said its impossible for it to collapse as well as bowing 1/2" was impossible as well (even though it bowed more than that). I raced to the hardware store to add a 2 vertical 2x4's to brace the middle (front and back). I refilled it and everything SEEMS ok for the time being. I find it hard to believe if i hadnt added support there wouldve been a catastrophic disaster!

Lesson learned, if using a 6ft metal tubular with zero middle support, cut some timber and add a little support or you could have a huge ass mess on your hands.


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## zugbug (Dec 12, 2005)

bartho14 said:


> I knew there was gonna be a problem!!! arrrg!! I setup the tank yesterday with the styrofoam, added the substrate(100lbs), rocks(200lbs) and transferred the fish. As the tank was nearly full, there was substantial bowing at the front in the middle, i measured 5/8"(which i thought was kinda much), i continued to fill to the top with water when i heard two large cracking noises, as if a weld had cracked or from the metal bending from absorbing the weight. I raced for buckets and drained 2/3 of the water as well as the rocks. There appeared to be no cracks in the welds, i called Big Al's with concern and they said its impossible for it to collapse as well as bowing 1/2" was impossible as well (even though it bowed more than that). I raced to the hardware store to add a 2 vertical 2x4's to brace the middle (front and back). I refilled it and everything SEEMS ok for the time being. I find it hard to believe if i hadnt added support there wouldve been a catastrophic disaster!
> 
> Lesson learned, if using a 6ft metal tubular with zero middle support, cut some timber and add a little support or you could have a huge ass mess on your hands.


yikes! i dont know if I could sleep at night after that. I prefer the metal stands made of angle iron I think its much stonger than the tubular. I would be shopping for or building a new stand.


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## gmaschke (Aug 23, 2008)

AS soon as they said impossible I would have took pics and emailed them to whoever said that and also would have told them.......... well you know. I hate being called a liar! Hope everything is ok those cracks you heard would have caused me some serious concern.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

the idea of any noise just boggles the mind...you need to go for overkill on that stand.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

A few points. Angle iron is not stronger than tubing in similar size (ie 2" to 2"). There is absolutely no reason I can think of to see bowing in the centre unless the styro was distributing the weight of the tank over the length of the cross piece. The tank can be supported strictly on the two ends with no contact across the front. If the tank is sitting on styro across the open span, all the weight is on the outside so it is natural for the styro to compress and theis is the possible source of the noise. thousands of steel stands of the type described here are in service with no problems. Granted, they are made of very light material but they do the job safely; they do not need to have a centre leg.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

just cant think of any scenario where a centre leg wouldn't be advantageous other than to save money. If either the tank or the stand had a production fault then the addition of a centre leg would be insurance.


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## 12 Volt Man (Sep 22, 2008)

this is puzzling.

as you saw from my thread on MFK, my stand is rock solid. I have been using the same style steel stands from Big Als' for almost 20 years now..as long as they have been selling them.

when I was filling my 150 I heard noises too, but it was from the weight of the 4 legs compressing on the subfloor in my basement. thats probably the noise you heard - it wasn't your stand, it was your floor.

the folks at big als swear the metal stands are actually better than the wooden ones, the drawback being they do not look as nice. the pine stands from Aqueon and Perfecto are 1x2 pine strips held together by staples and wood glue. not a single nail or wood screw to be found. Scary for almost 2000 pounds of weight for 20 years..thats why I chose the steel stand. it handles the weight much better..especially long term..

you could park a car on it.


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## 12 Volt Man (Sep 22, 2008)

for what its worth, every steel stand I have ever had has had small gaps near the center of the tank. not a problem, since glass tanks only technically need corner support. if your tank is flat and level, you should not have a problem with the stand. tank defects, well, that is not the fault of the stand.. if your tank is flat and level, you should rest easy.

15-20 years later that stand will still be there. holding up your tank just as it is today.

I know. I have had the same style steel stand with two thirty gallon tanks since 1990.. I also, until recently had a 90 and 65 stacked on the same style steel stand from BA's since 1993.

you made a good choice. just relax and enjoy your new tank!


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## 12 Volt Man (Sep 22, 2008)

if it might help, here is a shot of my 150 gallon metal stand I took this morning for a thread on MFK: here is a link to the post with the pic.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 17&page=12

yours is the same right?


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## madmax666 (Sep 11, 2008)

make the metal stand. use that as a frame. then make almost a "fake" wooden box around it!


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## 12 Volt Man (Sep 22, 2008)

actually, many people do that.

you get the best of both worlds then- the long term strength and stability of steel, with the great looks of wood!


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

zazz said:


> just cant think of any scenario where a centre leg wouldn't be advantageous other than to save money. If either the tank or the stand had a production fault then the addition of a centre leg would be insurance.


If you had a centre leg you wouldn't be able to put another tank of the same size on the lower shelf. that would be a big disadvantage. A second one would be in trying to level the frame, although, in fact it is easier to level 6 legs than four, if you have leveling adjustment.


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## TheLaxPlayer (Dec 21, 2003)

Here's a thought... one poster mentioned the legs compressed the subfloor when the tank was full of water. If this happened to you as well and the legs pushed not only down but slightly outwards from center, it would put the proper torque on the stand such that you'd have a gap in the middle between the stand and the tank.

How does the floor look under the stand / at the legs?


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## bartho14 (Feb 26, 2009)

Hey guys, thx for your help, a couple issues actually arose that i was unaware of initially. The tank is in the basement on thin carpet over solid concrete. I had a 4ft (90 gal) there before hand and it was perfectly level but I noticed the new 6ft (140 gal) isnt horizontally level due to 2 reasons. 1) the concrete ground isnt exactly level, it is for the most part but there is a slight slope (didnt know that could even happen). 2) more alarming, i mentioned earlier the base of the HAgen tank has a raised perimeter, it looks as though the styrofoam on the right side is being sucked under the tank if that makes sense. As if there isnt enough styro along the right side, which seems to explain the added stress/bend along the front. Ill try and get some pics up when i get home tonite, so this makes a little more sense.


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## bartho14 (Feb 26, 2009)

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## bartho14 (Feb 26, 2009)

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## bartho14 (Feb 26, 2009)

im tired of playing around with this tank to be honest, its been quite the pain in the butt. Bottom line, do u think it is safe like this? the 5/8" bow in the middle has been reduced to 2/8-3/8" through wedging in those wooden supports and the tank does lean a little to the right(ground + styro). Its just a matter of whether the styrofoam on the right will stay put and the wooden posts dont explode.


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