# Plumbing tank to sump; input needed



## Koteckn (May 16, 2012)

Hi all,

I'm currently working on my 30gal sump, in a different thread, and I'm almost finished installing the baffles. I also ordered my mechanical filter media for it yesterday, so I should have all of that within the next week or two.

Since I have to wait for this media to come in, I might as well start the main tank/plumbing for this project.

Before you answer, just keep in mind that my dad owns his own plumbing and heating business so I can basically get any plumbing materials that ill need very cheaply if not free. Please answer the few questions that I have providing the best materials to use, no matter the cost.

Using gravity from main tank to sump with a custom built overflow. My question is: 1. what size pipe should I run and could someone post a website to the exact bulkhead ill need using that size pipe. I'll also need some 2. guidance on the size holes ill need to get drilled into my tank.

I plan to have the output on the left side and return on the right side. I'm also doing undergravel jets with my return so I plan to drill the return hole on the right side near the bottom (cant drill bottom because of tempered glass). 3. What size hole and bulkhead will I need for the return? (and website again for the bulkhead to order). 4. What size PVC should I use for the undergravel jets?

Thanks in advance!

Howie


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

we need a bit more information befpr we can help you.

overflow pipe sizing is based entirely off how much water your return pump can put out at the head height of your tank. for general use i usually base my tanks off 5 feet of head because that is about how high all my tanks are. so for calculating the pipe size we need to know the gph your pump puts out.

here is a chart to estimate gravitational flow rates through common pipe sizes
size _GPM __GPH
1/2 = 2.50 = 150
3/4 = 5.63 = 337.5
1.0 = 10.0 = 600
1.25=15.6 = 937.5
1.5 = 22.5 = 1350
2.0 = 40.0 = 2400

we cant tell you anything about the bulkhead until we choose a pipe size therefor we cant tell you what size hole to drill.

now for the return going to your UGJ's i can help out on this. since you are using a sump it is possible to make your return power your jets but you have to be careful. by having your return underwater you could end up with a siphon forming and draining your entire tank if the power goes out or your return pump dies. so there are two ways to fix this problem. first off plump your return to the top of the tank and then have a pipe go down to the bottom inside the tank to power the jets. you would then drill a hole in this pipe at or just above your water level. this hole will act as a siphon break and prevent a flood. second way which will be more expensive is adding a one way check valve to your return plumbing so that if the pump stops a siphon cant form.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

I didn't drill any holes for my return on my 125 that is powering ugj's. Also, instead of a siphon break hole, I put a T at the top, and ran a ball vavle to an outlet at the water level...this allowed me to adjust the overall flow through the UGJ's and provided a large siphon break. Alternately, like rotccapt said, you can put in a check to prevent a siphon if you don't want any pipes up and over and then back down in the tank. for the jets, I use 1/2" pvc at each outlet but run a 1" mainline at the back of the tank and branch 1/2" lines off of that. This appears to give equal flow from each outlet. As far as piping diameters, for drains and return, you'd have to know the flow from your pump. With that, we can suggest piping diameter and necessary hole diameters.


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## Koteckn (May 16, 2012)

Thanks rotccapt and again lilscoots,

So in a nutschell, I need to decide on a return pump first...

With this, what gph rating do you guys suggest? Personally, I was thinking somewhere around 800... is this too little or too much?

Thanks


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

That seems fine to me, just make sure it's going to push 800 at your head height of 4-5'.


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## Koteckn (May 16, 2012)

Well, I've found the pump I want I believe, url below.

http://www.petco.com/product/115520...001B21A69EB0&mr:referralID=NA#description-tab

1. Would this be sufficient for my build? (75gal tank with a 30gal sump; sump build below to see the actual sump)

http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=246505

2. It has a flow control, so I'm thinking to turn around 900gph even though it is rated at 1000gph.
- what size down pipe should I use? and what size return line?
- Keep in mind, once I plumb back into the tank, I will be reducing to 1/4" pvc in order to hide my UGJ's as much as possible (or would it be better to just return the water from the sump to a spraybar?)

I'm looking for some solid input here because the sump is almost complete and the stand will be started very soon.

Thanks in advance,

Howie


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

I just added a spraybar to my setup and really like it. I've got jets along the back that point straight up and a little to the sides (pushing the **** up and towards the overflows) while the spray bar sprays across the top, has the water moving in a circle (across top, down front, across bottom, up the back) works pretty well and it enables me to use larger diameter pipe (3/4") with reducer t's and elbows for the outlets, Seems to increase the flow compared to 1/2" pipe and since the jets are in the back, they're pretty well hidden from sight. I've also gone from using short lengths of Tube "coerced into slits" to just using plugs with slits cut into them...This lowers the overall height of the jet but the direction is limited (you can direct the slits by your cut angles while cutting the slits). Hope that helps. I've no idea about the pump as I'm not familiar with that brand or it's power at your head height.


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## Koteckn (May 16, 2012)

so the question remains... what size holes do I need to drill into my 75gal to turn ~900 gph. That pump from above is rated at 1000gph with a throttle. My plumbing will include check valves, ball valves and a limiter so that the gph can't exceed the wanted 900gph. I just need to know what size holes and bulkheads to purchase and what size pipe to run as the return line. I'm ready to move along to the tank now and would like some advice.

Thanks!


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Here's a handy calculator (not sure on rules regarding linking to other sites, if this is bad please remove)http://www.aquariumpros.ca/index.php?pageid=overflow_drain_calc
If you're doing 1 drain line at 900 gph it says 1.25" diameter or 2x.88". I would drill for two 1" bulkheads if you have the room for the drain(s), (this gives you the option to run a herbie style, with a prefilter if you want).

Here's a list I found but most recommend getting the bulkheads and measuring the diameter of the hole you'll need:
Hole saw sizes
1 1/8 inch 28mm saw for 1/2 inch bulkhead
1 1/2 inch 38mm saw for 3/4 inch bulkhead
1 3/4 inch 45mm saw for 1 inch bulkhead
2 3/8 inch 60mm saw for 1 1/2 inch bulkhead

As far as bulkheads go, prices vary from $6-20, just do a search, or you can build your own, I had a hard time finding gaskets at big box stores, but if you have a plumbing store nearby I'm sure they'd have the right size.
Hope it helps.


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## MonkTong (May 4, 2011)

the pump you are looking at is rated for 1,000 GPH, but with head height you will get prolly around 6-700 GPH


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

You can get bulkheads at Aquatic Eco Systems for a good price. I would go with 2 x 1" drains myself but I feel that 800 gph is probably excessive for a 30 gallon tank and you probably only need a water flow of half that. In which case a single 1" drain would be sufficient.

Andy


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## Koteckn (May 16, 2012)

That's my plan, I would like to do one 1" drain line and one 1" return line that will be reduced to 1/4" inside the tank for my UGJ's. My next question would be what bulkheads to purchase. I'm a bit confused with which to choose. Money isn't the problem, buying the correct bulkhead is. So if I have my 1" holes, what bulkhead size would I need? Sorry for all of the questions, but as noted above, a 1 1/8" hole is needed for a 1/2" bulkhead. Any additional input is greatly appreciated.

Howie


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## Koteckn (May 16, 2012)

Im blind when it comes to plumbing tanks as this is my first one. If someone would insert URL's to what i need to buy that would be most beneficial to me so I don't order the wrong materials or jerry rig a sump that fails in the near future. I would like a pump around 900GPH (head height will be 4' max) for under $120 if possible. Then what size holes should i drill in the tank and what bulkheads should be ordered. I know this is my project and all, but like i said its the first time i've ever dabbled with anything like this. If someone would take some time to show me exactly what to purchase, that would be greatly appreciated. Lilscoots, I've already been discussing this project with you so if you have any input that would be awesome, and if not this thread is open to anyone with knowledge dealing with diy sump filters and tank drilling.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Since you're drilling the back of the tank, I'd drill two holes (1 3/4" or 45mm) and use them both as drains. Pipe your return line behind and up over the top lip since you'll have the room behind the tank. Either put in a spray-bar at the top like you were considering or a siphon break (small hole in the return line inside the tank just below the water line) and then continue down to your ugj's. If you do get your 900 gph of flow into the tank a 1" inch drain will be insufficient unless its in full siphon which with only one drain you don't want to happen. If you're stuck on the idea of a single drain hole, you'll need to up your drain pipe to 1.25" or 1.5". If you go with a 1.5" drain, you'll need a (2 3/8" or 60mm) hole.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

A question regarding your the overflow itself, what are the dimensions of the overflow i.e. how much room do you have to work with in regards to piping and holes and such. I went with 2x 5" by 5" overflows in the corners and 5" by 5" is pretty tight when you're working with 1" pvc.


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## Koteckn (May 16, 2012)

I'm up for suggestions for the overflow as well, but how did you do 5x5 overflows? I thought the overflow was normally in the back corner of the tank and was almost as tall as the tank?

Completely lost now... haha


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## MonkTong (May 4, 2011)

Narwhal72 said:


> I would go with 2 x 1" drains myself but I feel that 800 gph is probably excessive for a 30 gallon tank and you probably only need a water flow of half that. In which case a single 1" drain would be sufficient.
> 
> Andy


+1, but the 30G is the sump, his tank is a 75G :thumb:

i like the idea of 2 x 1" drains

as for pump, i would suggest a Mag 9.5, should be way right under $100


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

I have two square based rectangular cylinder overflows, one in each corner on my 125, 5" in from the side and 5" in from the back, and the height of the tank. Each overflow has a 1" drain, one is full siphon with a prefilter, the other trickles in and when it gets noisy, I know I need to service my prefilter. My return comes up and over the top to a spray-bar and down to my ugj's. As far as dimensions go, give yourself enough room inside the overflow to setup what ever pipe system you want (durso, herbie, open top). Does that make more sense?


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## Koteckn (May 16, 2012)

Very much so, all in all I need to sit down and plan everything out and move forward. The biggest concern I have is what bulkheads to purchase with 1" holes... I felt as if I would at least need a hole that was 1 1/8" for a 1/2" bilkhead? or am I still confused with the bulkhead?


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Seems like you're still confused. A 1" bulkhead matches 1" pvc (or threaded if you get them threaded) the hole that's required for that would be 1 3/4" or 45mm hole in the glass. The flange (widest part) of the bulkhead would be around 2.5-3" in diameter. If you want I can sketch something to give you an idea of how I would do it...I just need what you want in terms of overflow location number of ugj and whether or not you want a spray bar (I like the design part).


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## Koteckn (May 16, 2012)

lilscoots, that would be awesome if you would be willing to do that for me. I still want to run 1" so keep that in mind when you are figuring this all out. Im not sure exactly about what overflow I want, but i want it in the back left of the tank if possible with the return on the right side. I was maybe thinking this overflow, http://www.aquariumoverflow.com/overflow-boxes/1200-gph-overflow-with-black-silicone/prod_164.html, unless you think a different design would be better. I would like either 4 UGJ's or I was thinking of running 4 lengths of 1/4" pvc under my sustrate with 1/8" holes drilled into the top so it is kind of like a backwards UGF? not sure if that would work either. If not 4 UGJ's would be fine. The other thing is I would like the spraybar on the right short side of the tank spraying water from right to left rather than back to front.

If this is confusing we can discuss further before you waste any of your time figuring this out. If you understand, I look forward to hearing what you come up with. I'm open to any suggestions from you because as you said before, you've done all of this before successfully.

Thanks again,

Howie


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## Koteckn (May 16, 2012)

The acrylic is cut from the glass company finally. Next I will need to cut the slots into it and then glue it all together (I was thinking weld-on; would this work and would it be toxic?). After this, and some discussion with lilscoots (planning the bean animal overflow for me) I will get the tank drilled and bulkheads in. Sorry for the slow progress but I just wanted to keep everyone up to date.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Sorry for my delay, the end of the summer semester is here so I have exams next week which limits the time I can spend drawing things.


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