# Mixing Central Americans and Vics and Haps



## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Has anyone ever done this? I have a 165G tank that I am getting ready to set up. I know I can mix the Vics and Haps...but uncertain if I can add the Central American species.

I currently have some Psammachromis riponianus (breeding group of 2M/8F)and Placidochromis sp. "Phenochilus Tanzania" (1M/4F)which I plan to house together in the 165G tank. The problem is I am smitten with a certain CA cichlid also...so I'm wondering how this mix might work...

Psammachromis group (4-5 inches)
Placidochromis group (8-10 inches)
Vieja/Paraneetroplus synspilus either single or pair? I have no idea about CA requirements as this is my 1st look at them..but I love this fish (17 inches...this is the part that worries me)

I have to move the P riponianus and P. sp. "phenochilus tanzania" so I'm hoping to mix in another great fish...I know its unorthodox but I guess I just want to know what types of tankmates are doable for the Vieja/Paraneetroplus. I do have another Hap type that I love also but this particular CA species has sent an arrow though my heart... :lol: Hoping that there is a straw of chance that I might be able to make this work.

Thanks for your input.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

First I am going to assume you mean Vieja Syspila since they are the most popular Vieja species, I have never kept them or known anyone that kept them so this is a generalization from what I know about mixing africans and americans. A pair would be a definite no, they get way too aggressive in pairs for africans, If sized right a single could last quite a while in a 165g but there is no way to know how long. Too small American the Africans can pick on them badly, too big american they kill everything in the tank, eventually the American will tank over the whole tank though, but it could take many years.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

This one walzon (sorry about that)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=105

looking like this (wow..wow...wow)

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...m-11-28-08-synspilum-and-loiselle-109358.html


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I'm not very familiar with African's so I am going on my knowledge from American cichlids..

I have seen people mix African and American cichlids before; some even go as far as to recommend mixing them as they don't see each other as threats/competition. Personally, I am not a fan of mixing new and old worlds (heck I don't even like mixing SA and CA). For one, I simply don't think it looks "right". But further more, they are two different types of fish that behave and communicate differently. So to answer your question, can it be done? Sure. Will it work out long term? It's anyone's guess. Would I personally advise doing it? No.


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

to each his own, and opinions definitely vary on this matter. i have vieja synspila in my 240 mixed african tank. my friend also kept them in a mixed african tank. neither one of us has had any issues. i have had mine in with the africans for a year and a half and have had no problems. there are many arguments against mixing. many i think are valud while many i think are untrue. i chose to mix and can only go by the results that i've had, which are good. my fish are all adults and have been in 240 together for about a yr and a half.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

You know what this means, right Donna? ANOTHER tank!


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

+1 there you go


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> You know what this means, right Donna? ANOTHER tank!


NO...no more tanks...LOL. I just have to figure out how to make things work with what I have or let go of some that I have (that is an almost impossible idea for me). Another option would be to leave my P. riponianus where they are and rehome the P. sp. "phenochilus tanzania" and make the 165G a total CA tank. I also like the Vieja argentea.

And thanks for your input sumthinfishy

And walzon I am confused...are Vieja synspilum and Paraneetroplus synspilus the same fish then? I find V. synspilum in this forum and P. synspilus in other resources...being new to these fish I'm kinda lost...so forgive me please


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

cichlid-gal said:


> [.are Vieja synspilum and Paraneetroplus synspilus the same fish then?


 Yes, _Veija synspilum_, _Paratheraps synspilum_, and _Paraneetroplus synspilus_ are the same fish. But none of these are valid species today, but rather a synnonym of _Paratheraps melanura_ (or _Paraneetroplus melanura_ depending on your perspective). It is still useful to refer to these fish as syns or synspillum in the hobby, but realize there simply a regional variant of 
_Paratheraps melanura_.

I don't really want to get into the whole Veija/Paratheraps versus Paraneetroplus controversy or debate. Moving these fish to Paraneetroplus is based on one DNA study that seems to contradict morphology. Something is very strange and until they test numerous regional variants of _Paraneetroplus bulleri_ and all 4, rather then just 2 species of _Paraneetroplus_ , I don't think we are going to get to the truth. We really don't know whether it's a case of convergent evolution ( ?), a hybirdization event somewhere (?), or just every single Veija/Paratheraps species is more recently evolved from a common ancestor with _Paraneetroplus bulleri_ (?).


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Ahhh...thank you BC

and yes...here it is under the _Paratheraps melanurus_ name...just the most beautiful fish I think I've ever seen (but Mo has the knack of making all of them look this way)

http://modevlin.zenfolio.com/p196656202/h47541E5#h47541e5


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

cichlid-gal said:


> and make the 165G a total CA tank. I also like the Vieja argentea.


+1 THIS! :thumb:



cichlid-gal said:


> And walzon I am confused...are Vieja synspilum and Paraneetroplus synspilus the same fish then? I find V. synspilum in this forum and P. synspilus in other resources...being new to these fish I'm kinda lost...so forgive me please


And yeah.. as BC said, they are all the same fish. Those scientists just like to make things confusing! :roll: The change in name was relatively recent so when asking your LFS to order some or when searching for info on the web you will probably find the most info using Vieja synsilum/synspilus.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

CjCichlid said:


> cichlid-gal said:
> 
> 
> > and make the 165G a total CA tank. I also like the Vieja argentea.
> ...


Chris...somehow I knew I would get a thumbs up on a total CA tank... :lol:

I need to do lots more reading but what would be some stocking recommendations for a 165G tank with the _Paratheraps melanurus_? Anyone?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Not sure if you're aware of this Gal, but it's a great source of CA info, with an entire issue devoted to vieja/paratheraps...http://centralscenemagazine.blogspot.com/

I am not confident on suggesting stock, but this ties into my post somewhat: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=265426
I'll be centering around a group of Thoricthys, with a vieja or similar fish as a 'centerpiece.' Chris has been very helpful on my post, and sure he'll chime in here for you as well.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

+1 to anything with Lee Nutall's name on it! All of his articles and videos are a great resource when it comes to CA cichlids.

Also as Iggy said, check out his thread as I made some stocking suggestions as well as posted up a few cool video links.

What are the dimensions of your 165gal?


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Thanks Adam and Chris....and Adam...that is just funny as just yesterday I was reading that very magazine on-line and sent that issue to my hubby so he could see the fish I was talking about...LOL...that's awesome...great minds they say ... right?

I'll look at the thread and get dimensions. The tank is a 6 foot long I know, 18 wide then 24 in the middle (the bow)...not sure of height...I'll have to check. I noticed today when looking for bowfront stuff that Aqueon sells a 155G bowfront...dimensions looked like they could match mine but I think this was sold as 165G but either way...its the size that matters and footprint. Probably need to stock like a 125G cause its only the bow and a little extra height I think but maybe CA's use that space better than mbuna which is what I'm most familiar with.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

tank size is 155G bowfront size... 72" x 24.5" x 25.5"


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

That's a pretty good foot print, although it's only that wide in the center correct?

I would still stick to stocking it similar to a 125gal..


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

CjCichlid said:


> That's a pretty good foot print, although it's only that wide in the center correct?
> 
> I would still stick to stocking it similar to a 125gal..


 :thumb:


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## NZSIC'S (Apr 30, 2013)

cichlid-gal said:


> This one walzon (sorry about that)
> 
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=105
> 
> ...


These are really beautiful fish... Are Redhead Cichlids a similar species? What are the main differences?


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Yes, V./P. synspilum are the same thing as "Red Headed" cichlids. That is simply their common name.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

OK..so here is the initial setup of the tank (extra heater was stuck in the middle there for setup purposes as the big one I was putting in had been sitting for a while...turns out it was bad and wasn't heating so good thing I put the extra in for a bit). I have some plants arriving tomorrow. And I did move my Vics and Haps into this tank for now. I haven't ruled out anything at this point but not sure either what I'm going to do in the end.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Looks like a great CA setup to me! :wink:


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