# Did I make a mistake already??



## jsnipper (Jun 6, 2008)

*Should I get rid of some of the fish now or wait?*​
now, get rid of all M. auratus444.44%now, get rid of 2 M. auratus00.00%get rid of all P. crabro111.11%wait, and dont add anymore fish111.11%WAIT333.33%


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## jsnipper (Jun 6, 2008)

So I'm kind of new to the hobby and I've just set up my first tank; but I've looked after my brothers existing 75 gal tank for about a year now so I know all about feeding, filtration, water changes, diseases and a few other necessary facts. So I set up a 30 gallon tank a week ago and added fish this past Tuesday and things are going fine... water's a little cloudy but it's still early....

But i have 4 M. auratus, 3 P. crabro and 1 cuckoo catfish, and would like to add more fish later on and basically my question is, is that too many fish? Am I going to run into a serious problem (mainly space and aggression) once they all mature and possibly mate? I really dont want to get rid of any of them but will do what's best for the fish. :fish:


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

Your tank is just too small for either auratus or crabo. Both of these species have very aggressive tendencies and will not do well in such cramped quarters. You will end up with just one fish eventually.

I would go to the cookie cutter section of the Forum for some better combinations. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_29g.php


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## jsnipper (Jun 6, 2008)

thanks for the advice

they were actually in the same tank at my LFS and are actually doing well with each other now... And i read and was told that the auratus and crabro are more aggressive against their own species and not others. And i figured it was better to keep two aggressive species with each other than one aggressive and one easy goer. I'm just worried about what's going to happen as they grow... So would you suggest doing something about this now or wait? and what exactly should i do?


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

I would take them back if you can. As I said earlier, your tank is just too small for these species. They need a lot of footprint area to set up territories and a 30g is barely enough room for just one of them. They may get along well as juveniles but as they mature nature has hardwired them to take and defend territory. Both the auratus and the crabo will defend against different species to maintain a foothold of thier percieved area and if other fish not as aggressive have no place to go or hide it will end badly for them.

I wish thier was something to say to make it work but my personal experiance with them tells me it won't. The only alternative I can give you is to go with a 75g and preferably 100g or larger in a 5'-6' length to house them. Even so you could still have losses due to interspecies aggression.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

IMO..won't work long term. You could maybe do a species tank. 1 male, the rest female. Cyno species, Trio Electric yellows, Trio small aulonocara, shelldwellers, etc. I lost all but one auratus in a 100 gallon, when starting out. They played well for about 12 weeks. Then, battled to the death. 30 gallons, is not really enough for cichlids. Good Luck! I agree about the cookie cutters to start with. they are mostly fool proof.


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## jsnipper (Jun 6, 2008)

the thing is I wont know what sex any of them are until they begin to mature... And even then, the M.auratus can change their sex, so I'm hoping they'll go 1 male 3 female.

So should would either of you recommend keeping any of the fish, maybe 2 of each or just 2 total (1 each maybe)? or is there no hope and i should get rid of all of one species?

thanks for all the help..


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

You mentioned the water is "cloudy" and that you set the tank up a week before you added fish. Did you cycle this tank at all? Do you have a water test kit?


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Before you go selling any fish what are the dimensions of the tank. Not the volume the measurements


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## BrianNFlint (Apr 1, 2007)

jsnipper said:


> the thing is I wont know what sex any of them are until they begin to mature... And even then, the M.auratus can change their sex, so I'm hoping they'll go 1 male 3 female.


huh? I dont think they can 'change' their sex.. I do think males can show female colors to keep from getting killed.

IMO get rid of all these fish and get something less agressive as this will never work. Both species you have are extremely agressive toward any species, and ultra-agressive toward their own species.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

BrianNFlint said:


> huh? I dont think they can 'change' their sex.. I do think males can show female colors to keep from getting killed.


I think he might be referring to how they all look like females as juvies then the males change color?



jsnipper said:


> i read and was told that the auratus and crabro are more aggressive against their own species and not others.


I don't know about crabo, but Aratus are definitely aggressive towards others. My first and only experience with aratus is when I added 4 to a community tank. In about two months I had an aratus tank. I think they are fine for good sized tanks with lots of rocks and hiding places, but they are definitely a challenge and I would return them.


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## pugwash (Sep 11, 2006)

I'd take the lot back and do a dwarf mbuna species tank - P,saulosi spring to mind. Or a shellie tank...


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

chrispyweld said:


> You mentioned the water is "cloudy" and that you set the tank up a week before you added fish. Did you cycle this tank at all? Do you have a water test kit?


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## jsnipper (Jun 6, 2008)

cripsywled - I haven't cycled the water yet... the fish are being used for that... so i knew the water would become cloudy for a number of reasons, and yes i have kits and have been testing daily and so far so good

tannable - brianNflint was right, I was referring to how the males can change color from to keep from getting harassed

gibbs - i'll give you the dimensions when i get home tonight

But i think i'll wait until they begin to mature before i make any decisions on returning/selling them. And if anything i'd probably get rid of the auratus because i've fallen in love with the crabo and everyone has nothing but bad things to say about them.

thanks again


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## jsnipper (Jun 6, 2008)

gibbs - the tank is 36x12x16


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Sorry,

I still think that you are looking for trouble in a tank that small. You can wait. Eventually, you will lose fish. Again, I suggest that you look at the cookie cutters and try something along those lines. If not, if you don't mind the cost of losing the fish, you can try it. But, according to what I know, and others here, you will have a bad experience. Crabbo are very aggressive also. Look also at the profiles to see what might work! We love our fish, because we are able to enjoy them, not because of losing them on a regular basis. There are always those who do something outside the box, but few and far between...for a reason!


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

No one has anything bad to say about the Crabbo because the Auratus are way more aggressive. But, if you try to mix Crabbo with anything else, there will be in an uproar. The Crabbo are to big for a 30 species tank, let alone anything else. Can I say it again, look at the cookie cutter. Or, I can send you an..I told you so... in 6 months.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Ps. Saulosi would be your best bet.


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2007)

I can attest that the Ps. Crabro are very aggressive. They shouldn't be in a tank any smaller than 75 gallons(48x18"). That said, they can be beautiful, happy, and not too grumpy if they're able to set up a sizeable enough territory, and the other fish can stay away from it. You absolutely need a larger tank. I'd say that a 75 is the smallest I'd go for any 1 of the 2 species that you have. To keep both species, you'd need probably a 125 or something 5-6 feet long. If you want to stress your pets to death and allow them to kill each other(Micheal Vick comes to mind) then keep them in the 30 gallon, but IMO, it's animal abuse and giving your pets a fighting chance is important.


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