# 135G - Need advice on ... everything



## jimmyknuckles (May 8, 2007)

Hi guys,

I was finally able to convince my girlfriend that if we replace the carpet with hard wood that I should be able to get a six footer. Basically the only thing I know for certain is my stock list (Viejas). Therefore, I'm putting together a preliminary setup piece by piece. Here's what I have so far (prices are estimates, I haven't looked around yet):

280$ - 135G Glass (new)
050$ - Glass Tops (new)
350$ - Stand (new)
200$ - Canopy (new)
100$ - 3xPenguin 350b
175$ - Rena XP4
000$ - Sand?
000$ - Lighting? (I have a spare 48 inch AGA light)
000$ - Heaters?

I'm very cloudy on the entire lighting/filtration aspect of such a large tank. I doubt I'll be growing plants in a tank this large, so the lighting would just be for the fish themselves.

I'm looking to cut down on the money anywhere I can, but I realize this is an investment and am willing to spend money if it's necessary. The little stuff (backgrounds, etc) I can figure out on my own. What would you guys recommend? Think I'm on the right track?


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## convictkid (Jul 28, 2004)

A canopy is a big big big waste of money IMO. Tanks can look just fine without 200 dollars added expense/ but thats just me. Take that 200 dollars and use it to buy fish from a good breeder. And some nice decor. Thats what I would do if it was me anyway. Good Luck.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I will disagree with the previous poster on a canopy/cap. I have one on my 58-gallon Oceanic. It's oak and matches the stand and is really quite attractive. If the tank is going to be a 'show tank' in the livingroom or other prominent place, I think a canopy makes it look more polished . . .


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## OKCIS (Mar 28, 2008)

I hate the look of canopies its one of the only things i hate about aquariums. However when you have an setup that big and you dont have one it looks super ghetto with all that **** sitting on top of it and tubes running everywhere.

I have a 135 also that hasnt been setup yet cause im too lazy to build the stand right now. For lighting check these out http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+12772&pcatid=12772
dual 36 inch setups look good and you have lunar lights built in also. Look around online you can probably find them cheaper.


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## convictkid (Jul 28, 2004)

Ok well your 58 gallon Oceanic's canopy probably dosen't cost 200 dollars. But if it did then thats your choice. I was simply saying in my opinion, hints the IMO , that 200 more dollars on something you could make cheaper, or not have it at all is a waste on money. IMO.


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## Britnick (Apr 18, 2008)

Once option is to resist the temptation to buy it all at once. I am having the same problem, but I have worked out that I can spread the cost over a couple of months by buying things as I need them, for example you only need to put lights in when you put the fish or plants in. You donâ€™t need them for the fishless cycle.

Alternatively, ebay supplies stuff which is easily replaced with new/bigger/better later for a fraction of the cost.

Good luck with it and post some pics when you are done.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

SAVE YOUR MONEY...  Shop around, browse your local clubs sites & buy a "USED" but in good(your opinion) condition complete set up for half the price of new. That's the only way to go in *MY *opinion. :thumb: :wink: 
Good Luck whatever you decide...  :thumb:


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## jimmyknuckles (May 8, 2007)

Thank you for the responses!

I currently have a canopy on my 75. I'm definitely getting one on the new tank. I'll probably be ordering the tank, stand, and canopy from Glass Cages, so I either get it when I buy the tank or never since I won't drive back to Tenn for just the canopy.

I think I'm going with Glass Cages because the local "scene" in NoVA is very overpriced. Local pet stores charge an arm and a leg for tanks, and I've been in and out of CraigsList for a while. For some reason no one sells tanks bigger than 75g around here. I wouldn't even know where to begin in regards to clubs or other local organizations. I'm also not that "crafty" with my hands when it comes to DIY projects. I wouldn't trust myself enough to buy a used tank and "re-seal" it.

I won't be buying it all at once. I'll probably buy the tank/stand/canopy first, then deal with lighting/filtration. What do people do for heating? I'd prefer to avoid heaters that potentially have the ability to fry all of my fish over night. Is it possible or recommended to buy 2 smaller heaters for "safety"? Also, is it possible to buy a lighting fixture from Lowes or Home Depot and use that for lighting?


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## F8LBITEva (Nov 9, 2007)

whats up Jimmy, Vienna VA here. I see alot of good deals on craigslist. Ill never buy a tank brand new again.


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## jimmyknuckles (May 8, 2007)

F8LBITEva said:


> whats up Jimmy, Vienna VA here. I see alot of good deals on craigslist. Ill never buy a tank brand new again.


Heya Fatalbite, I lived in Vienna for 21 years 

I've been prowling Craigslist for tanks, but have yet to find a 6 footer for any cheaper than I could get new from Glass Cages. I'll keep my eyes peeled.


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## SnakeEyes03 (Jun 6, 2007)

Alexandria City here  Jose's right....just keep looking on Craigslist. I found a 125 on there the other day for $175...I didn't buy it because I didn't want to plug the OverFlows.

I'm buying a 125 from a guy on another forum this weekend for a AMAZING DEAL....fish, filters, lights, you name it, its coming w/ it for $300

Keep looking and you'll find the right one. Also, Walleys in Annandale is a good place. They will work out deals if you do a combo. Talk to Don whos the owner, and say Mike the cop sent you...he knows me very well.

Good luck..keep us updated

Mike


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## F8LBITEva (Nov 9, 2007)

SnakeEyes03 said:


> Alexandria City here  Jose's right....just keep looking on Craigslist. I found a 125 on there the other day for $175...I didn't buy it because I didn't want to plug the OverFlows.
> 
> I'm buying a 125 from a guy on another forum this weekend for a AMAZING DEAL....fish, filters, lights, you name it, its coming w/ it for $300
> 
> ...


Quit following me around all the forums!! 

That is such an awesome deal you got, if I would have know he would have taken that much it would have been sitting at my place right now!!!!


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## SnakeEyes03 (Jun 6, 2007)

There's an amazing computer program where you type in Jose and it gives me all your FORUMS...lol

Well I didn't honestly think he would take it....thank god he did...my Frontosas are getting bigger :dancing:


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

jimmyknuckles said:


> F8LBITEva said:
> 
> 
> > whats up Jimmy, Vienna VA here. I see alot of good deals on craigslist. Ill never buy a tank brand new again.
> ...


Like the other people have typed continue to browse Craig's List. Check out different areas because if you were willing to drive to Tennessee for a new tank you should be willing to drive for a greatly priced used tank. I have scored some really amazing deals on big tanks from my local CL. I even drove 80 miles one way for a used 210g 7' Oceanic complete. I even had to rent a uhaul and they charge you by the mile.

Search for aquarium, aquariums, fish tank, fish tanks, fresh water, freshwater, saltwater, salt water. You are bound to get a better search result if you search for all of those individually. Perform those searches in the "for sale" section and the "community" section.

Moving on....

Fmueller has a GC canopy on his 240g. He ordered the tank/stand/canopy/glass tops from them and he says that that canopy is never level because it warped from the way they construct them. They use two 1/4" pieces of plywood for the top and then sandwich risers between the plywood to give it thickness. Which doesn't make it very rigid.

Maybe *FatalBite* is handy enough to help you build a canopy and stand? Maybe get together some weekend and blast them out. Manufactured stands are built to a bare minimum that while it will hold the tank when full they do not look structurally sound. You could build a bombproof stand and a canopy to match for the about the same or even a little less then the price of the stand itself from GC.

The thing that costs the most $$ for a DIY stand are prefabricated doors. GC doesn't use prefab doors they use a full piece of plywood for the front of the stand and then cutout the openings for the doors. They then turn around and use said cutouts with trim pieces around the plywood and then use them as the doors that just slip inside the cutouts.

Ultimately it is up to you but I would rather build myself a bombproof stand then spend that kind of money on the bare minimum. You can also build your stand to a height that you want instead of being limited to 24" and 30" tall.

Another thing will Viejas use the height of the 135? Some fish prefer a wide and short tank versus a skinny and tall tank. A nice tank GC offers is the 125 wide which is 72x24x17 for $350. That's basically the reverse of the 135 which is 72x18x24. But if you could afford it I would suggest getting the 180 wide at 72x24x25 but it is significantly more money.

Now onto other things you asked about.

Lighting - If you aren't going to grow plants then you can use fluorescent strip lights with no problem which will save you money.

Sand - There are a bunch of options such as play sand, pool filter sand, silica/sandblasting sand, and 3M ColorQuartz. All are used with good results you just have to make sure and wash it really good to get the dust and other stuff out of the sand.

Heaters - I would suggest using 2 lower wattage heaters than one high wattage heater. As for which ones to use there are a bunch of good ones check out the review section on this website.

One thing I would suggest using is a wet/dry sump filter but you don't have to if you don't want to. They aren't as scary as people make them out to be. They give you more water volume which makes the water parameters more stable and also provide a lot of space/area for biological media for a whole lot of beneficial bacteria. There are a bunch of good threads on here about DIY wet/dry sumps.

If you haven't done so already you should check out Fmueller's write-up on his 240g build. It is a good read and you can find it here.

If you have any more questions just ask. :thumb:


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## jimmyknuckles (May 8, 2007)

@Fellow NoVA people: I'd love to come over and check out your rigs sometime!

@Irked: Wow, you've made me extremely happy and extremely sad at the same time! 

I read every word on fmueller's site in regards to his 240. This has left me feeling majorly overwhelmed. I realized going into this that a bigger tank doesn't just mean more of the same, but I never realized how much actually goes into this when trying to save money.

I would certainly love to build my own stand and canopy, but I am a computer guy by trade and have virtually no experience "working with my hands" when it comes to wood, electricity, or glass. To further my woe, I don't know any exceptionally good woodworkers, and I live in a condo making space to work/build/paint a huge issue. Due to the nature of water, and the sheer amount of it, I'm also extremely (extremely) paranoid that the stand I build will break and water will be all over the place. These fears also apply to filtration. My recurring nightmare involves a broken O-ring on a canister at 11 in the morning.

Right now my biggest concerns are the lighting and filtration as I don't forsee myself building my own aquarium (glass + cutting + drilling + sealing = over my head). I went into this expecting to pay 1000$ for the tank, stand, and canopy. Obviously I will keep sifting through the plethora of 55 gallon tanks on Craigslist and hope to hit the jackpot like SnakeEyes above before someone else does.  Then I will simply need to teach myself how to identify a tank that needs re-sealing, and of course learn how to do it.

I will take the suggestions by fmueller in regards to lighting -- I'll be calling around to various home depots in the area when the time comes -- those 6500k lights seem amazing for the price. Hopefully it won't be too difficult to mount and power them.

As far as the decor, I think I can handle that. I'll get some egg crate and some pool sand or some of the other sand mentioned often enough around here. I can also go driftwood hunting for other stuff. Heaters I will buy commercially -- would 2x250w filters do the trick? I've already got pythons, meds, food, and everything else I will need outside of the main equipment.

Filtration is probably going to be my biggest problem as I'd love to make a DYI solution, but I go right back to the fact that I'm ignorant of the process, and a visual learner that doesn't self-teach very well. Additionally, this tank is going in our living room, so I would need something quiet. Right now I'm leaning toward production canisters and HOBs, as much as I'd like to do a wet/dry or sump to save money. It's all so very overwhelming, but I'm going to continue reading and learn as much as I can. Every time someone posts in this thread I learn something. This project isn't going to start or end tomorrow, that's for sure.


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

There is no reason to be overwhelmed. Just relax and breathe.

What exactly made you happy and what made you sad about what I typed?

When setting up a tank whether it be large or small there are all sorts of ways to save money without skimping out on it. Fmueller proved that with his build by using those fluorescent strip lights which takes nothing more than mounting the frame to the canopy and then plugging it into a socket. No electrical work needed. Also by using those rubbermaid containers for the wet/dry sump. Another way he saved was buying refurbished return pumps.

Living in a condo you can still build your stand. Once you have all the materials it'll only take you an afternoon to build it. Then you can stain/paint it the next day. Just build it outside all you need to do is run some extension cords for power. The only power tools needed is a drill for pilot holes and to push the screws in and some kind of saw for cutting the wood to length. I am going to be building a stand and most likely a canopy this weekend for a 125g I have. I'll take pictures of the steps I used and provide a cut list. I am even going to reseal it but that might not be this weekend. Time will tell.

Decor is all personal preference so you should be able to handle that. 2x250w heaters should be enough. Pythons were the best thing ever invented for an aquarium.

For the filtration if you want to ever use a wet/dry sump down the road you should get the tank drilled now for overflows because it is hard to go back and do it later. You can always close them off with bulkheads and pvc plugs wrapped in teflon tape. For canisters you cannot go wrong with an Eheim though a lot of people like the rena filstar xp3. You could use 2 xp3's and the marineland penguin 350 and I think you would be okay. You can add more water movement with powerheads. Hydor Kolaria's are good ones.

This stuff isn't as difficult as it sounds so really there is no need to be overwhelmed. Aquaria is supposed to be relaxing and fun. :thumb: :fish:


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## convictkid (Jul 28, 2004)

> I am going to be building a stand and most likely a canopy this weekend for a 125g I have. I'll take pictures of the steps I used and provide a cut list.


This will help me as well. Can't wait to see it!


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## jimmyknuckles (May 8, 2007)

Irked: Sorry if I was unclear. Your information helped me a great deal. It just brought up a lot of questions in my head about what I really want - and what I really want I probably won't be able to do. That said, I'll take things one step at a time - I'm much more on target today than I was a few days ago.

I think you convinced me to bite the bullet and buy the 180G instead of the 135G from Glass Cages (although I'll be prowling craigslist for a few weeks before doing it). I'm looking at about 850$ shipped for the tank (180G + starfire on the front + glass tops) without overflows. I also think I'm going to go with one or two canisters and supplement them with HOBs, although going from a 135G to a 180G makes filtration a bit more costly. I just worry that I might want to use a Wet/Dry later and won't have the overflows drilled.

I think I'm going to attempt to build my own stand. I was looking this over, which appears to list everything I'll need to build my own stand:

http://www.fishandtips.com/index.php

I put in the dimensions of the tank from Glass Cages (72 x 24 x 25 Tall) and added the 1/2 inch for "precision safety," but I got an error so I had to remove the safety part. Not sure why that is, but I'm sure I can get slightly larger boards if necessary (once I figure out how to visualize all of the pieces). I very much look forward to seeing what you're doing with the stand.

I think once I have all of the pieces (the most overwhelming part about building to me), I can probably put them together with the help of a friend or roommate. One of my roomates has a surprising amount of power tools laying around the house, including multiple large electric saws. If I can get a stand built, I can most certainly build a canopy - although the canopy seems to be much more of a "finesse" job (it has to fit "just right"). In any case, if I can build the stand and the canopy, it will probably boost my ego enough to build the Wet/Dry. One step at a time...


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## OKCIS (Mar 28, 2008)

The page tossed an error because 72 inches is as large as there plans will allow you to build. Probably because 72 inches is a common lumber size. Im going to use the same plans on mine but pay extra for 90inch 4x4's so i can get them cut perfect at 73inches. Plus the leftover 17 inches gives me room to make my cross beams since im only going for 20 inches wide i would be able to go up to 24inches wide with 0 issues from the scraps off the 90 inchers. Im gonna build mine this weekend ill take some pictures of it.


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

jimmyknuckles said:


> Irked: Sorry if I was unclear. Your information helped me a great deal. It just brought up a lot of questions in my head about what I really want - and what I really want I probably won't be able to do. That said, I'll take things one step at a time - I'm much more on target today than I was a few days ago.
> 
> I think you convinced me to bite the bullet and buy the 180G instead of the 135G from Glass Cages (although I'll be prowling craigslist for a few weeks before doing it). I'm looking at about 850$ shipped for the tank (180G + starfire on the front + glass tops) without overflows. I also think I'm going to go with one or two canisters and supplement them with HOBs, although going from a 135G to a 180G makes filtration a bit more costly. I just worry that I might want to use a Wet/Dry later and won't have the overflows drilled.
> 
> ...


You'll be happy with the bigger tank and it being drilled for future use on a wet/dry. I'll keep you posted on my stand.

I am going to respond to this other guy and it also pertains to you.



OKCIS said:


> The page tossed an error because 72 inches is as large as there plans will allow you to build. Probably because 72 inches is a common lumber size. Im going to use the same plans on mine but pay extra for 90inch 4x4's so i can get them cut perfect at 73inches. Plus the leftover 17 inches gives me room to make my cross beams since im only going for 20 inches wide i would be able to go up to 24inches wide with 0 issues from the scraps off the 90 inchers. Im gonna build mine this weekend ill take some pictures of it.


I would not build your stand out of 4x4 and they are more prone to twisting. Instead double up 2x4's which will be way stronger than a 4x4 without it twisting on you.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

you just need to proritise.....the canopy is not needed ...and the stand could be the meccano type industrial storage type affair. At a later date a canopy and a facia covering to the steelwork can be added when funds permit.


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## jimmyknuckles (May 8, 2007)

Update!

The hero for the year is F8LBITEva who alerted me to a 180G on Craigslist with sump, stand and canopy for 600$. The seller was a very nice guy, but had apparently scheduled someone to look at it ahead of me - and he wanted to honor the first come/first serve policy. After two days in misery waiting to know if someone had picked it up, he called and said the other guy couldn't make it and it was mine. We "picked it up" last night - 388 pounds of glass is a beast to move!

I took initial pictures and put them up here:

http://epee.airdrawn.net/main.php?g2_itemId=11126

Now I have questions!

1) The tank was a salt-water tank previously. The overflows and interior of the tank are semi-coated in salt. What is the most effective (and safe) way to clean it? Can I use any cleaners? If so, what precautions should I take? The overflows SMELL right now (hence the saran wrap). I'm going to flush them tonight, but was wondering if I could apply any solvent that would take the salt/smell off easier.

2) I'd like to convert the sump that came with it to freshwater. Aside from thoroughly cleaning it (same questions as #1), does anything else need to be done?

3) It doesn't look like a motor came with the sump - and I really have no idea how it works. Based on the (crummy) pictures I took, can anyone offer suggestions in regards to what I need to get it up and running?

4) Should I attempt to add additional wood to further brace the stand, or do you think it's good? The guy said the stand was extremely sturdy and he had no problems with 200lb of live rock in it.

5) I'm going to home depot tonight to pick up eggcrate and look into pool filter sand. While I'm there, I'm going to look into the Phillips light strips that Fmueller mentioned in his write-up. Does anyone have any suggestions for simple DIY lighting?

Thanks for all of your help!


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

Very nice.

1. Use white vinegar and water then the almighty elbow to clean the tank. If there is any coraline algae or calcium deposits you can use a razor blade but be careful not to scratch the glass.

2. Same thing as #1 but without the razor blade. Makes sure to wash the bioballs pretty good but without chemicals.

3. As for the "motor" it would depend on how much flow you are looking to get through the wet/dry system. Once you figure out how many gallons per hour at what head you want then we can proceed. There are a bunch of good return pumps.

4. I don't think you need to add support to that stand. Looks like it is in good shape.

5. I have never been able to find pool filter sand at the home depot near me. Egg crate will be in the drop ceiling tile section but they may only have one box and it might be empty. For the lighting you can try this.

Did you see the aquarium full of water? If not you should take the tank outside and fill it up for a couple days. this will also make it easier to clean. Saltwater tanks can break down silicone faster than a freshwater tank cane so it would be good to test it outside the house.

It's good that you bought a complete because my stand build got delayed.

:thumb: :fish:


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## jimmyknuckles (May 8, 2007)

Thank you for the continued replies, Irked!

I read somewhere that Oxy-Clean is aquarium safe and can be used to strip salt out as a replacement to vinegar. Any idea if this is true?

Do you think 120GPH would be enough for a 180? I don't plan on overstocking the tank, but I do plan on getting my "moneys worth" out of it. Fmueller recommended these pumps on his site:

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumP ... preme.html

Not having a single clue about the mechanics behind this type of filtration, does it need something mechanical to suck the water out of the tank, and something else to push it back in?

Thank you for your other tips, I really do appreciate them greatly.


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

No problem I am here to help out when I can.

I have never used oxy-clean so I have no idea if it is aquarium safe and what not. I try not to get too adventurous.

I think you meant 1200gph and not 120gph. That should be fine as you don't need to have massive amount of flow through the wet/dry. But I would suggest getting a canister or a HOB filter to run in conjunction with the wet/dry for mechanical filtration.

One thing about Danner mag drive pumps is that they are water cooled and can raise the water temperature sometimes by 10 degrees.

In each of your overflows there are 2 bulkheads one for the standpipe that drains the water to the sump and one for the return water from the sump. There is nothing that pumps the water out of the tank to the sump it drains by gravity and is pumped back into the tank.

To get a better understanding of how a sump works you should read Melev's "How does a sump work???" and then the three page article at the bottom of the page.

Are you going to build a USJ system for the tank?


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## jimmyknuckles (May 8, 2007)

Yes, sorry.. I meant 1200gph. 

If not Danner, do you have another brand you recommend? I need something relatively silent (if that's possible). And yes, raising the temperature of the water 10 degrees seems like a bad idea with our recent weather. 

Thank you for the Sump link. It makes more sense now.

What is a USJ? Do you think it's a good idea to build one?


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

A lot of people use danner mag drives without problems but some people have experienced high temperature rises. I could recommend you a pump but you'll have to PM me for it.

*U*nder *S*ubstrate *J*et system is what I prefer to call them instead of UGJ which stands for under gravel jet. Seeing how you can use them under sand then it should be substrate instead of gravel. So you can do a search in the DIY section of this website for "UGJ" and find out what they are. Then you can decide for yourself if you want to build one. If you don't want one you can just get some powerheads and put them where they can push the detritus and other debris into a centralized location.

A good powerhead to use without a USJ is the hydor koralia. It isn't a focused stream like a normal powerhead it is wider and they can flow more with less power consumption.


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## F8LBITEva (Nov 9, 2007)

Thats awesome man!!! Im glad you got it, I wish I had some where to put a tank like that but currently moving in with my GF (condo) so big tanks are out. Im sending you a PM.


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## jimmyknuckles (May 8, 2007)

Well, I spent about 6 hours last night filling the tank, scrubbing the tank, siphoning the tank and repeating. The amount of salt that came off the glass alone was staggering. The exhaust on my python is almost completely immobile due to the amount of salt. Working in the overflow chambers is also very difficult since I'm afraid of screwing up the seal. I'm going to borrow a shop-vac tonight and just vacuum out as much salt as possible.

I went to Home Depot last night. Was able to pick up 2 sheets of egg crate, two 48 inch T8 light fixtures, some bulbs, some glossy Bayer paint for inside the canopy. I finally found some silica sand from Leslie's close by (50lbs for 9.99 - thanks for the tip Doane). I also placed an order for a 1600gph sump motor (thanks for the tips, Irked).

Now if I can just get the darn thing cleaned.


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

im jealous. i have no luck on craigslist.


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## jimmyknuckles (May 8, 2007)

Updates and questions:

The tank is up and running with fish, and they love it. I've acquired a few pieces of large driftwood and moved the driftwood over from the old tank. I was able to get the sump working properly along with the two AC110s I purchased (stuffed with filter media from my AC70s). Today I also purchased a new Eheim Pro 3e 2076 and enough SeaChem Matrix to stock it - it comes in next week. That's the last purchase I feel as though I need to make for this tank.

Some lingering problems, however.

1) I attempted to move my Rena XP3 from my old tank to the new one, but the day after I hooked it up I came home to a nice pool of water in my cabinet and around the floor of the stand. Turns out it had a slow leak in the side. I have a strong feeling that it is due to the way the hoses are positioned. They're not as long as they should be, and due to the positioning of the intake/exhaust on the tank, the cables are entering he canister at an awkward angle -- most likely breaking the O-Ring seal. I just can't believe the XP3 was working fine on the old tank for 1+ year and then decided to break the day I moved it into the new tank. Since I purchased the Eheim, however, I will be able to sell the XP3 with my old 75 (I bought a spare XP3 O-Ring just in case).

2) The front of the tank has many (many!) scratches. I thought they would disappear when water was added (which is what the seller said), but they did not. They are very very bad on the eyes, and everyone I have showed the tank to says they detract greatly from the visual experience. I think the previous owner of the tank either cleaned the tank improperly (scratching the heck out of it), or was constantly moving large amounts of live rock around without care for the glass. Two of the "scratches" are circular shaped (the size of quarters) and have no visibility through them, only a white cloud. There are probably 30-40 3-10 inch thin scratches in addition to the two large ones. My roomate went so far as to tell another roomate that I was going to kick myself when the thought of all of those scratches set in.

I've done a lot of reading on here and most people have basically expressed that if you have scratches on the inside of your glass with overflows on the back, you're basically SOL. :/ Someone mentioned looking into a device used to clean telescope lenses, but the basic research I did showed that it was cost prohibitive. Furthermore, I'd basically have to gut the tank completely to do any sort of finishing work on it. As much as I wish that someone would respond saying "there's this magical tool that will work," I'm somewhat accepting of the whole thing.

3) The "floor" of the stand is warped. This basically allows for the sump tank to sit flat on two edges, but it slopes inwards in the middle. This makes the acrylic sump basically "off level" where one side has a higher water volume than the other. I believe this problem also contributed to the XP3 leaking. I suppose this is another one of those things where I'd basically have to tear the setup apart to do anything about. The tank itself is almost perfectly level from everywhere I've measured it, but is the 30G acrylic sump OK if it's not?

4) The pump is LOUD. To clarify, it's not really the pump that's loud -- it's pretty quiet if I pick it up when its submersed. The problem is that everything around the tank rattles when the pump is on, and eventually when everything "moves" around it creates a loud buzz throughout the house. It's one of those things where everyone sighs when you turn it off. Any suggestions for quieting everything down? I was thinking about shoving some sponge or something under it, or even getting some car audio dynamat for the inside of the tank, but I'm not sure how well that would work with vibration.

Thanks again for the help, I'll be posting pics over the weekend!


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

There is really nothing that can be done about the scratches. You can either shrug it off or sell the tank after buying a replacement.

The acrylic sump should be level. When acrylic is not fully supported it is the number 1 cause of acrylic tank failure. You can drain the sump and stick a non-warped piece of wood in between the sump and the warped piece of wood. I would also suggest putting a piece of styrofoam between the sump and the non-warped wood.

If the pump is causing vibrations put it on sponges or some other type of filter media pad. I don't think dynamat is aquarium safe plus that stuff isn't cheap. You should be good with the filter pads and sponges.


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## F8LBITEva (Nov 9, 2007)

A leaking canister is one of my fears cuz all my tanks are on carpet and that would make a **** of a mess. How about if you make a little shelf for the canister out of some plywood sitting on top of cinderblocks inside the stand to give the lines some slack. That sucks about the scratches man, but as long as my fish are happy I wouldnt let the scratches get to me. I know you said you didnt want to buy anything else for the setup but maybe a higher quality not so powerful pump would be quieter? good luck and post pics!!


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