# Super Red Empress compatibility ???



## slater32 (Apr 27, 2015)

Have had this adult Super red Empress for a few months & in our 125gl he is obviously tank boss or just an all-around bully...
Last few days I've noticed he's constantly chasing all the other fish in the tank.
Thoughts?
Here's my stocking of the tank right now, minus the male bi color & male lemon jake as they are still in my hospital tank for the time being.
Do I have a stocking issue or are these Super Red Empress's just normally overly aggressive?

1 male Livingstoni
2 ob peacocks
1 Blue Hybrid Peacock
1 Mast Juli
2 electric blue alhi
5-6" Super Fire Hap (Red Empress)
male & female Bi-Color 500 Peacock
Sunshine Peacock 
Red Peacock
3" Lemon Jake Peacock 
4" Red Cap Lethrinops Hap
5 Synodontis petricola


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

You will always end up with an alpha male who is the boss. Males of ever species can very... some are more cool, some more of a jerk. There is no special reason for a Red Empress to be more aggressive. You remove him and another fish like the a male Fryeri (Electric Blue Ahli) might step up and be the next jerk. If the male is actually hurting other fish, you may have to change up the mix.


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## slater32 (Apr 27, 2015)

To me he seems to always have been a jerk & is the biggest fish in the tank.
Just last few days seems like he would constantly chase all the fish & seems non-stop, frequently atleast...

I really haven't been a fan of the fish from the get-go, it was my wife wanting it.
Blue head / red body I'm not a fan of.
If it continues though would imagine would be overly stressful on the other fish?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Remove the female. No females in an all-male tank.


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## slater32 (Apr 27, 2015)

Correction: "jumbo".....
Its been a long week..


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

definitely remove the female.


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## Ten Tonne Tomahawk (Apr 24, 2015)

DJRansome said:


> Remove the female. No females in an all-male tank.


Echo that.


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## slater32 (Apr 27, 2015)

So let me clarify!
I do have a matching m/f pair of a red peacock & bicolor 500.
The Jumbo Red Empress is not really messing with those females or males on the regular, he isn't doing any sort of mating dance or trying to build a nest. 
Really just chasing-off various other fish, mostly the livingstoni & the Haplochromis obliquidens zebra.
Its just really random constant chasing, sucks cuz he is significantly larger in comparison the the other fish!

So still, lose the 2 females & problem should resolve itself?
In the past we have had various couple of females within the tank & has not been an issue, our time in the hobby has been short though last December...
We have had electric blue couple & yes the male would chase off others during nesting & were successful holding eggs.
The Jumbo Red Empress has only been in the tank 3 months max.


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## jw85 (Dec 24, 2013)

If all he is doing is chasing it sounds like normal aggression. Someone will always be in charge of the tank and chase other fish.

That being said, cichlids are mostly herem breeders. You need either 1m/3-4f for each species, or no females. The pairs won't work long term. And having some males with no females won't work long term.

How big is the red empress? When he decides it is time to mate with the female you will have your hands full.

A video would be helpful.


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## Ten Tonne Tomahawk (Apr 24, 2015)

I'd also avoid 2 different peacock pairs in one tank. they can't tell girl from girl.


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## jw85 (Dec 24, 2013)

I'll post my reply here so others can agree or disagree.

So no - that wasn't a typo in my post. Here is what I meant. You want your stock list to mimic one of these two types:

Example breeding group setup:
Fish A - 1m/3f
Fish B - 1m/3f
Fish C - 1m/3f
Fish D - 1m/3f

In this scenario each male has several females to chase and breed with, and possibly enough to not harm them when they don't want to breed because it can breed with something else.

Example all male tank:
Fish A - 1m
Fish B - 1m
Fish C - 1m
Fish D - 1m
Fish E - 1m
Fish F - 1m
Fish G - 1m
Fish H - 1m

In this scenario each male will establish a pecking order but never go into defensive breeding behavior (but don't take that to mean all male tanks are easy).

Any setup that combines the above types won't work long term.

Example of a setup that won't work:
Fish A - 1m
Fish B - 1m/1f
Fish C - 1m/2f
Fish D - 1m
Fish E - 1m
Fish F - 2f

In this fake scenario, species B and C will likely torment the females to death. Species A, D, and E will fight relentlessly to breed with any female in the tank, possibly killing the females or each other. I would expect lots of deaths from both the males and females as breeding territory is established in this fake scenario.


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## slater32 (Apr 27, 2015)

So what are the reasons that an "all male tank won't work longterm"???
Now I'm confused, I though an all male tank was ok...


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

he's saying if you try to *combine* the all male and the group setups into one, sort of what you have right now, it won't work long term. All male tanks do work long term, but they are a lot of trial and error to get there.


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## jw85 (Dec 24, 2013)

Correct. An all male tank will work (what I have). A mixed breeding group with proper ratios will work. A random assortment that combines the two will not work long term (but may work for a few months).


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## Ten Tonne Tomahawk (Apr 24, 2015)

lilscoots said:


> he's saying if you try to *combine* the all male and the group setups into one, sort of what you have right now, it won't work long term. All male tanks do work long term, but they are a lot of trial and error to get there.


 I have always kept all male tanks. They have huge rewards and huge demands. You will quite possibly suffer losses and will definitely need to re-home some fish. It will be a trial and error juxtaposition of species. You will do well to avoid like species. That is species that are of similar appearance, or same family in some instances.
Mixing the Mbuna, Peacocks and Haps together can be troublesome, but if done right, you aught to enjoy the results.
For Peacocks, try only Jacobfriebergi and Stuartgranti types. For Mbuna, avoid the larger Melanochromes and Metriclimas, like Mel Auratus and Chipokae, and Met Lombardoi, Greshakei and Hojomaylandi. In the Haps, Cyrtacara Moori is best avoided too. If you really like the fish I mentioned, you can do them, but you need to maintain the upped aggression level and populate accordingly.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

I don't know if you've experienced this, but I found red cap lethrinops to be very timid fish that don't work well with a rowdy group.


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## Ten Tonne Tomahawk (Apr 24, 2015)

There are a lot of species that typically do not fare well in mixed groups. While I have kept a lot of species, Lenthrinops is not amongst them. They may be one of those species like Aulonocara Gertrudae, where you will seldom see dominance outside of a colony setting.
Most mixed groups will have a degree of rowdyness. This is a concept that all keepers of Africans will need to get used to.
Your Red Empress male has no idea he's in a tank and that there is 0% chance of a female happening by. For all he knows, he's seconds away from an encounter with Scarlett Johansson. Because of this, he will constantly chase the riff-raff out of his territory so his pad looks inviting to Scarlett, and not cluttered with competition. (If I thought Ms Johansson was likely to swing by my area, my house would look deluxe too)
The behavior is rather harmless and if it doesn't extend beyond escorting the others out of his turf, it is just something you need to get used to. Generally speaking, Protomelas isn't known for aggression. That Livingstoni you mentioned must be a lot smaller than the Empress. They're more known for aggression.


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