# Struggling with Nitrates (NO3)



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

I recently obtained a used 125gal tank. It came with everything, including the fish (17 cichlids, 6 little pleco's, 1 Jack Dempsey, 1 catfish). Most of the cichlids are about 4-5 inches in length. He said they are just over 2 years old. The guy had 8 tanks (freshwater and saltwater) and seemed very informed about his setups (I am a total noob to aquariums, and knew very little before I picked up the tank last Saturday). I took about 40% of his water in buckets, thinking that I could maintain his setup effectively this way (since then, I am thinking this was not the best way to handle things, as I should have relied on the filter to contain the good bacteria, and just used all fresh water with conditioner).

It came with Aquatop 300w and 200w heaters. The 300w light would come on regularly. I never saw the 200w light come on until day 3. I have since replaced the 200w with a new Fluval E300.

Once I got everything setup, I ran some water quality tests. The water visually was pretty cloudy and dirty, and I thought this was just from kicking up particles in the sand from adding the water (which I did slowly and carefully, cup by cup). My initial tests were:
Ammonia = 0
Nitrites = 0
High pH = 7.8
Nitrates = 160+ (thats the highest reading for my kit)

The high Nitrates worried me, so I started searching the internet about these types of readings. From what I understand, my tank is almost fully cycled, and has good bacteria in the filter. By the way, I have an Aquatop CF500UV canister filter, which had gravel in it (there is no gravel in the tank, only African cichlid sand) and only had the course filter in the lowest basket, a very thin and destroyed white filter in the 2nd, and the top 2 filter baskets had no mechanical media in it. It did have large black plastic balls in the top basket.

2 days ago, I added mechanical filter material to each basket. I also added Fluval Biomax bio-rings, as well as a Seachem Purgen packet.
The water clarity is now looking really good, with just a very light dusting of particles (I do not have any flow in my tank, other than the filter return, which does not circulate the 6ft length of my tank. I have a wave maker being delivered tomorrow or Friday). I then did a 40% water change, then added Seachem Prime. I also added some cichlid 8.2 pH powder (about 1/2 the recommended dose to start with).

I did another 30% water change today, and the water clarity looks better than ever. My test levels are now as follows:
Ammonia = 0
Nitrites = 0
High pH = 8.0
Nitrates = 80

So it looks like I am heading in the right direction. The fish seem to be pleased, have brilliant color, are very active, feed well, and are very responsive to what is happening outside of the tank. No fish are being picked on, and there appears to be a male dancing for and chasing a couple females of the same color (I dont know the names of my fish yet).

My water temp is 74F right now, although I have my E300 set to 78F.

I am feeding them a vegatarian cichlid flake food (1 pinch per side, morning and evening) as well as cichlid protein pellets (1 pinch per side, morning and evening). The fish appear to still be hungry after feeding, and in-between feedings, but I am reading that you should feed them less when you are trying to reduce the Nitrates.

Do I just keep doing water changes? If so, how frequently? Is 30% every other day acceptable? How long should I expect it to take until I get my Nitrates to around 40? There seem to be different opinions about this.

I would like to add some fish soon, but I want to make sure I have everything in order before I start expanding things, and placing more load on my tank's filtration.


----------



## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Welcome to the forum, Habanero. Sounds like you have a really good set-up with the 125G tank.

My advice is to do daily water changes at about 25-30% until you get the nitrates down to 10ppm (after the water change). The best practice is to do water changes when the water is getting over 20 ppm. If your fish have been living with 160 ppm nitrates it's not good for them but it can actually shock them if the water quality suddenly improves. That's why it's good to do this over several days.

Don't mess with the filters until you're sure the tank is stabilized or you could trigger a mini-cycle and start getting ammonia and nitrite readings. With the tank and filters just having been reset up after a move, I would worry that there's a risk of this happening. I would also ease up on the feeding till the nitrates are down to a reasonable level. The fish are resettling into their new environment, they can easily go a week or more without food. Finally, I'd advise against adding more fish till nitrates have settled down and you're sure there are no ammonia or nitrite spikes.

Did the sand come with the tank? If it's really dirty, it may be causing your nitrate levels to stay high. Try the steps I've outlined above. If they don't work, siphoning the sand out a section at a time to rinse it could be necessary.

How are you testing your water parameters? A liquid test kit (API makes a good one) is what I'd recommend. Test strips can be less reliable.

I wouldn't bother with the 8.2pH powder.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

Zimmy,

Thanks for the response.

As far as the filters, I watched a youtube video of how my filter is designed to operate (I was not able to find an electronic instructional manual, which is unfortunate). I just wanted to make sure that there was mechanical filtering where it should be. I was careful to leave the existing old, dirty, and warn out filter material, and not mess with the plastic balls. I did not expose any part of the filter contents to tap water.

The sand did come with the tank. As we are doing water changes, and as we do so, we are vacuuming the sand. We are slowly running our fingers through the sand, then sucking up the debris.

I am testing the water with the API freshwater master kit. It was $27 from a local pet shop. It uses glass vials, and liquid squeeze bottles, resulting in a color that you match up with a color legend with numeric values.

Ok, I will not mess with the 8.2pH powder for now.

I will continue with 25% daily water changes until the nitrates come down.

I guess thats why I got such a good deal on the setup.

I think this is an excellent learning opportunity. The tank looks so much better, I bet the previous owner would want it back now that it is receiving some TLC.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Great advice from zimmy and it sounds like you've really done your homework.

Only thing I would add is that you should try to get some pics of the fish and post them on the forum for ID. That will be important to know if and when you decide to add anything else.


----------



## Bowfront (Jun 3, 2013)

Make sure you use the test kit properly and read all directions, especially the part about shaking the bottles rigorously before performing any of the tests. Failure to do so will cause the test results to be off. I have a hard time believing your nitrate is at 160ppm. Also test the water coming from your tap to get proper baseline readings.

.


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Great advice from zimmy and it sounds like you've really done your homework.
> 
> Only thing I would add is that you should try to get some pics of the fish and post them on the forum for ID. That will be important to know if and when you decide to add anything else.


I posted pictures last night in the unidentified section of the forums. Someone already identified my fish. What excellent support on the forums. I have one South American fish that requires a lower pH level, so I need to get him out of that tank soon. I need to read up on the rest of them.


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

Bowfront said:


> Make sure you use the test kit properly and read all directions, especially the part about shaking the bottles rigorously before performing any of the tests. Failure to do so will cause the test results to be off. I have a hard time believing your nitrate is at 160ppm. Also test the water coming from your tap to get proper baseline readings.
> 
> .


I have read the directions and this is what I am doing.
1. Fill a glass vial to the line.
2. Add 10 drops of bottle #1 (no shaking).
3. Put the cap on and turn the vial upside down a few times.
4. The color of the vial turns yellow.
5. Shake bottle #2 for 30 seconds.
6. Add 10 drops of bottle #2.
7. Put the cap back on.
8. The vial turns orange/red.
9. Shake vial vigorously for 60 seconds. (Color is fairly dark red at this point).
10. Wait 5 minutes. (Color doesn't really change after 5 minutes).
11. Compare vial to color code chart.
12. Bust out my water siphon kit to perform a water change and worry about my fish surviving.


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

Bowfront said:


> Also test the water coming from your tap to get proper baseline readings.
> 
> .


I just ran a nitrate test on my tap water. It is reading between 20 and 40ppm. Thats discouraging. How am I suppose to decrease the Nitrate reading in my tank, if I am filling it with water that contains Nitrates?

Could my tap water really be that high, or is this a testing issue?

What are my options at this point?


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

It's possible that your tap water is high in nitrates but I would do a couple tests as a comparison to see if you get the same results.

Can you describe your source (tap) water, is it city supplied, private well, or other?


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

Deeda said:


> It's possible that your tap water is high in nitrates but I would do a couple tests as a comparison to see if you get the same results.
> 
> Can you describe your source (tap) water, is it city supplied, private well, or other?


I just ran my water for a few minutes, tested again, and got the same result.

I also ran another test in my tank, and I am in-between 80 and 160, which was about the same rating prior to a 30% water change yesterday afternoon.

I live in a community removed from the larger population of Salt Lake City. The city buys water and adds it to storage tanks. Seems like each year there is some drama around city water. Last year, they forgot to buy water, and we had to ration water. They paid a premium to fill the tanks at the last minute, which of course, they passed on to the residents in their inflated water bill.

Most people in my community have water softeners. We do not. We have to use products in the dishwasher to prevent spotting on glasses. We have to clean our shower heads every few months in order to keep them operating. We dont drink the water, and use a service for 5 gal bottles and a dispenser.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Try testing some bottled water. If it shows 0 nitrates, then you'll know your test kit is not at fault.

Seachem Prime is a dechlorinator that also removes or detoxifies nitrate. Can't remember which. Seachem Purigen claims to remove nitrates. It's a type of media you can add to your filtration. Something to look into perhaps...


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Try testing some bottled water. If it shows 0 nitrates, then you'll know your test kit is not at fault.
> 
> Seachem Prime is a dechlorinator that also removes or detoxifies nitrate. Can't remember which. Seachem Purigen claims to remove nitrates. It's a type of media you can add to your filtration. Something to look into perhaps...


I will try the bottled water this evening.

I use Seachem Prime whenever I do a water change. What I do is shut off my canister filter, and unplug the heaters, then siphon out the amount of water I want to (usually around 30%). THen, I add Seachem Prime to cover the entire amount of water in my tank (its a 125 gal tank, and probably has about 100 gal of water in it considering the sand, rocks, and I only fill it to about 2 inches from the top). So thats 2 capfulls of Prime. Then, I fill the tank with tap water, let the water sit for 15 minutes, plug in the heaters, then plug the filter back in. That way, the Seachem Prime has a chance to work on the new water before it hits my filter.


----------



## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

If your test with the bottled water confirms that the nitrates are high in your tap water, you could use some fast growing plants to help lower your nitrates. I had a few golden pothos plants growing out of my tank. They grew very fast and definitely helped with managing nitrates.

Frogbit is a good floating plant that can be used for the same purpose. Valisneria and water sprite are good ones for in the tank.


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

Ok,

I changed the water again over the weekend, about 25%. Added Seachem Prime. Here are the test results as of this morning:

pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites:0
Nitrates: between 40 and 80

After running this test, I wanted to see if the bottled water I get delivered through a service (I believe I am getting purified drinking water at this time) would test for Nitrates. I ran the test, and it was at 0. So I would say that the readings on my tank water, and my tap water are accurate.

My concern is that no matter how many water changes I do from my tap, my Nitrates will always stay in the current range. If my tap water is testing between 20 and 40, then how can I expect my tank to ever be lower than this? If my filtration process naturally produces 10-20, and I am adding up to 40, then my reading will never really be below 50-60.

I looked up an API tap water filter, however, that would most likely cost me $40 per month doing weekly 15% water changes. That does not sound too reasonable.

Any other manageable solutions? Should I begin considering Nitrate reducing chemicals due to my crappy tap water? Or should I accept that having 50-60ppm on Nitrates will be OK for my fish over time?

All other water conditions are awesome, and my water is looking clearer than ever.


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

zimmy said:


> If your test with the bottled water confirms that the nitrates are high in your tap water, you could use some fast growing plants to help lower your nitrates. I had a few golden pothos plants growing out of my tank. They grew very fast and definitely helped with managing nitrates.
> 
> Frogbit is a good floating plant that can be used for the same purpose. Valisneria and water sprite are good ones for in the tank.


Zimmy,

Thanks for the idea. Plants that consume Nitrates sound like a viable option to help the situation. The previous owner of my fish said that they tried live plants, but the fish ate them up in a matter of days. I am trying to find some that the fish may leave alone for the most part.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Look into Seachem Purigen. It may help in your situation. It's inexpensive, reusable and claims to control nitrates.


----------



## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Look into Seachem Purigen. It may help in your situation. It's inexpensive, reusable and claims to control nitrates.


+1 I've used it before and it provided some benefit. If you go this route get two bags, one that you keep in your filter and the other you recharge with bleach and then soak in a dechlorinator. When the one in the filter has reached its limit, you switch it with the recharged one.

If you used a sump (a 125G is a big enough tank that it's worth considering), you can create a freshwater refugium with plants. That way you get their nitrate reducing power without the fish destroying them. A sump has lots of other benefits too (although I've never used one...but have been planning one for over a year  ).

It's not a great situation to have such high nitrate levels in your tap water, but you have some options.


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

According to Governmental regulations, drinking water should not exceed 10ppm of nitrates. I am going to contact my city, and ask them to test the water.


----------



## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

I use golden pothos as well and have an amazon sword, some jungle val, and java fern in my 125 hap and peacock tank. The Val is cheap and gets used up by the fish and current in the tank so I just put some more in every six weeks, lol.


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

I spoke with a guy at a fish store in SLC and he recommended that I try Seachem Stability. He said that increasing the good bacteria in my system will help manage and process the nitrates. He also recommended some worms that he sells that you feed the fish. I guess they have enzymes and such that are very beneficial for the fish, as well as for controlling things like nitrites and nitrates. I will consider that option as well.

I am thankful for the support as I try to figure things out. Just want to make the best environment for my fish, to keep them happy.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Your good bacteria eventually produce the nitrate. Vacuuming out waste, the use of plants and water changes are the standard ways of removing nitrate. Having more bacteria by introducing it will not get rid of nitrate, IMO.


----------



## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

I was about to put my +1 to Iggy's post but then decided to look up Seachem's website first. According to their info Stability does reduce nitrates.

Habanero, for your situation where the problem nitrate reading is from the tap water, it may be worth trying Stability, especially in combination with some plants. I would still also follow a consistent water change routine.

I wouldn't rely on Stability if the high nitrate reading was due to waste produced in the tank. In that instance, the nitrate reading is really an indicator for a lot of waste products we don't test for. For that situation I would still be doing water changes to get the nitrates down.


----------



## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

I was in my LFS today and noticed Seachem also makes this product. Apparently if you put it in a filter that runs at 50 gph or less it is very effective at lowering nitrates...just something else to consider.


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

zimmy said:


> I was in my LFS today and noticed Seachem also makes this product. Apparently if you put it in a filter that runs at 50 gph or less it is very effective at lowering nitrates...just something else to consider.


Excellent suggestion Zimmy. I appreciate the research, and will go that route if necessary. Its good to know that there is another viable option out there.


----------



## Habanero (Nov 20, 2013)

Ok,

I have been using Stability by Seachem for the past few days. I have also done 2 more water changes, at about 30% each. I have also been running my wave maker more often, as I have it on a timer.

This morning, I tested my Nitrates (NO3) and was excited when the vial did not turn red immediately when I added the 10 drops of the 2nd bottle. I shook it up, let it sit for 5 minutes, then discovered that my Nitrates are reading 40ppm right now! What a relief. It has taken me some time to get to this level, but I am very excited about the progress, and where I am at right now with my water parameters.

I have a 7" or 8" common pleco in my tank, that mostly just sits there. He does little to no cleaning of my tank. A guy came over yesterday to check out my fish, and explained that a pleco this size is producing the waste of about 3 cichlids, and he isnt doing much to clean the tank. Just then, we noticed a 2" pleco in my tank going to town on the alge of a rock. What a difference between the two. So I am going to pull him from my tank today, and most likely replace him with a clown pleco, or an albino bristlenose pleco, probably 1.5" or so.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

A common colored bristle nosed has a better chance of making it than an albino. Something to consider. ..


----------



## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

If live plants don't work out, there are denitrifying filter set-ups out there that work in your tank much like your aquatop. They are biological filters that work to break down nitrates instead of nitrites and ammonia. I do not have any experience with them however. They looked to be pretty pricey as well 200-300 dollars. This might be the way to go in the long run though.


----------



## SupeDM (Jan 26, 2009)

If you are still struggling with nitrates go to a nursery and ask them for house plants that can handle having thier roots submerged. I ave found that these type of plants seem to suck up nitrates like crazy from my tank and since the plant isnt in the tank the fish dont harm it. Sometimes it takes a bit for the plant to get acclimated to having roots in water and start drawing the nutrients from it.


----------

