# cycling my tank with tiger barbs.



## verast432 (Dec 22, 2011)

So i've had my hundred gallon tank set up for about 2 weeks for the first seven days i added seachem stabilizer at the required amount which was a capful for ever 20 gallons then i added 5 tiger barbs and they've been in there for about 5 days now...the first few days they were alright but now they seem to be getting sluggish i noticed this today. They're sluggish and every now and again they swim around and chase each other but then they go back to being sluggish. Could this be because the ammonia level is going up in the tank?? I haven't got a chance to test the ph and ammonia levels in the tank being that it's christmas all the stores are closed and i can't get there to get a test kit. Any advice???


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

My best advice is to do water changes with a fish in cycle without knowing your ammonia or nitrite readings it is really hard. If you have no test kit and are going blind my... best advice is water changes every couple days. I would do 35% every two days with 5 small fish in 100g. It will take a while to cycle as your load is small and the amount of ammonia for the nitrifying bacteria to feed on, grow and reproduce will be small because of the frequent water changes.

I say 35% but that may or may not be overkill...no way of knowing without testing so better safe than sorry. You will have to do this until you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates to show the cycle is complete.

You really need to get a test kit.

It is hard just guessing.

My $.02


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

If you're cycling, then there's nothing you can really do; feed as little as possible (every 2-3 days). Doing water changes now would probably be counterproductive. By cycling with the barbs, you're essentially accepting the fact that they may die. As a side note, 5 tiger barbs are nowhere near enough to properly cycle the tank; in a 100g, you'd least at least 20, preferably 30 tiger barbs, to get enough bacteria going that you can then start adding a decent number of fish without causing a major spike. In the future, I'd suggest doing a fishless cycle, or better yet, seed the tank with an already established filter, if possible. ATM though, I suggest just keeping an eye on the barbs; if they start to die, then do a 30-40% pwc, but other than that just wait it out. Tiger barbs are hardy, and it would normally take a significant amount of ammonia to kill them off. As soon as you can though, I suggest getting a test kit; cycling a tank without a test kit on hand is a bad idea IMO.


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## verast432 (Dec 22, 2011)

ok so since i couldn't get a tester kit today i took about ten gallons from my daughter's tank and changed it out with ten gallons of my tank (i know that's not enough but she only has a 20 gallon community tank) then i took some of her substrate and put it into a mesh back and placed it in my 100 gal filter to hopefully help out. Was this a good idea?? and tomorrow i'm definitely going to get a test kit anything else i should get that might be able to help???


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

verast432 said:


> ok so since i couldn't get a tester kit today i took about ten gallons from my daughter's tank and changed it out with ten gallons of my tank (i know that's not enough but she only has a 20 gallon community tank) then i took some of her substrate and put it into a mesh back and placed it in my 100 gal filter to hopefully help out. Was this a good idea?? and tomorrow i'm definitely going to get a test kit anything else i should get that might be able to help???


It should help a bit to get the tank seeded. You could add a bunch of cheap dither fish and feed them and do water changes every week until the tank is cycled. Then remove the fish and do a really large water change and add the new fish. You need a test kit to know when cycle is complete. What kind of filters are you running on the tank?


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## verast432 (Dec 22, 2011)

Well I'm running an Aqueon 50/75 I originally thought it was an 85 gallon tank when I bought the filter so when I have the money I'm just gonna get another that should do I think..


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

verast432 said:


> Well I'm running an Aqueon 50/75 I originally thought it was an 85 gallon tank when I bought the filter so when I have the money I'm just gonna get another that should do I think..


Oh yes...you definitely need more filtration. I would try to get something closer to 500gph at least. That will give you 750gph filtration and you could probably use a little more depending on how heavily stocked your tank is going to be.

This hobby gets expensive quick eh?


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## verast432 (Dec 22, 2011)

it definitely gets expensive quick razorbackfan... i bought some jungle test strips today and tested the water the ph is really high but there wasn't any nitrite present there were some nitrates in the tank. the water was very hard too. the ph being high means there's high levels of ammonia right??


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

verast432 said:


> it definitely gets expensive quick razorbackfan... i bought some jungle test strips today and tested the water the ph is really high but there wasn't any nitrite present there were some nitrates in the tank. the water was very hard too. the ph being high means there's high levels of ammonia right??


Not necessarily but you really need better test kit. The strips are notoriously unreliable. If you have nitrates present then either you have nitrates in from your tap of your tank has some nitrifying bacteria present converting the ammonia. Hard to say but you really need to get at least a basic test kit.

What is your pH in your tank? Also...pour some tap water into a bucket or something and add a pump or airstone and wait 24hrs and then test. I would rather have a stable pH between 7-8.8 or so rather than mess with the water chemistry.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Bacteria require a surface to live; the water from the other tank will do absolutely nothing, and though the substrate will help, it won't be nearly as effective as using filter media, which is where most of a tank's bacteria live. I agree that the test strips aren't very reliable. And IMO this hobby is only expensive if you make it so; if you don't make a lot of mistakes, then it's not that costly. Yes there are costs, but unless you keep wiping out your entire tank, it's still quite cheap when you compare it to having a dog or cat, or sometimes even reptiles/birds.

The nitrates were probably a result of adding water from your daughter's tank, and until BOTH ammonia and nitrite are at zero, I wouldn't even look at the nitrates; its presence is insignificant when cycling is concerned. Also, high pH doesn't neccesarily mean ammonia. However, ammonia is more toxic at higher pH, so a high pH means that the ammonia takes a harder toll on your fish. And yes, it's much better to keep pH stable than to try to constantly alter it; your fish are probably tank raised, so they'll adapt readily to most water conditions. For now, just don't feed too much and keep an eye on your fish; avoid massive water changes where possible, and just let the bacteria do their thing. Seeding your tank will help, but if you do, get media from the filter, and make sure that the tank has been disease free for at least 3 months.

And of course, get a test kit ASAP; API makes a liquid freshwater master test kit, which covers everything except GH and KH, though they have those kits as well.


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## verast432 (Dec 22, 2011)

Do I finally got a test kit it's the API master test kit. The ph was 8.2 the ammonia was .5 ppm the nitrite was .25 ppm and the nitrate was 10 ppm. What do you think? Is this good or bad? And I also added more tiger barbs I have 17 now.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

ammonia is your problem. you are meant to add the seachem stability every day for at least 7 days.


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## verast432 (Dec 22, 2011)

i did add the sachem every day for 7 days and I still had i in the tank mainly because i had fish in the tank and it hasn't cycled completely yet.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I highly doubt stability helps all that much. Just wait and keep an eye on your fish. The bacteria will build up eventually. Adding filter media from an established tank will speed it up, and may instantly cycle the tank. For now, don't look at the nitrites, and ignore the nitrates as well. Until the ammonia hits zero, that's all that you should be looking at. Once the ammonia is at zero, keep an eye on the nitrites, and only when both ammonia and nitrites are both at zero should you bother with the nitrates.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

> I highly doubt stability helps all that much.


I disagree, this product or a similar one is what he needs for a cycle with fish in the tank.


> i did add the sachem every day for 7 days and I still had i in the tank mainly because i had fish in the tank and it hasn't cycled completely yet.


Ok, ammonia should be ok then, the stability will detoxify the ammonia and the like until the cycle is complete so the fish will not be worse off. Obviously a fishless cycle is better, but using stability will keep the fish alive.

They are not in the best conditions (hence why fishless cycle is better) but they shouldn;t die, but yes they will get sluggish and the like. Do water change whenever you notice them getting a bit sad and sorry and make sure to add the stability every day until your tank ammonia and nitrite is gone.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

You mean prime right...? Stability is supposedly benefitial bacteria in a bottle, though I'm not really certain if nitrifying bacteria have a dormant stage in their life cycle. Prime, on the other hand, will detoxify ammonia and nitrite, or at least it says it does. I've tried it, and it seemed to work anyways.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

No, I mean stability.

Prime does detoxify like stability, but stability has the added benifit of having benifital bacteria to remove some ammonia and nitrites in the process.


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## verast432 (Dec 22, 2011)

Well I added stability last night but I thought adding too much prime would be harmful because isn't it a water treatment for new water mainly when doing water changes??


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

There isn't anything on Stability's label about detoxifying anything; it just says it's a combination of bacteria which will help speed up cycling.

As for prime, the instructions say that up to 5 times the normal dose can be added if ammonia/nitrite levels are high and it's an emergency. It's used both as a dechlorinator and as an aid in helping prevent ammonia/nitrite poisoning.


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## verast432 (Dec 22, 2011)

gotcha thanks for the advice and help!!


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## verast432 (Dec 22, 2011)

so i totally scored today!!! i only had an aqueon 55/75 on my 100 gallon tank and today i went to the lfs and just took a wild shot in the dark and asked if they maybe had any used filters and they did!!! I got a used marine land emperor 400 biowheel filter and the best part of it was i also got 2 new carbon cartridges for it and also 2 already established wheels for it fresh out of one of the tanks there with bacteria on it!!! all that was only $21.65!!! definitely a steal!!!!


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I rarely use carbon, unless I've just finished medicating, and need to get the meds out ASAP. The bacteria on the biowheels will definitely help speed up the cycling though, and for 22 bucks that's not bad at all.


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