# Fishless Cycling - Ammonia Level



## praveentnair (Jan 4, 2014)

Hello friends,

I recently decided to setup a cichlid aquarium. Was keeping a FW Community tank. I decided to do a fishless cycling and completed the tank setup with a trickle filter (using 425 gph pump) and HOB filter (350gph). put the cleaned PFS and rocks and filled with tap water. Used Aqueon Water conditioner to de-chlorinate the tap water. Got some gravel from the LFS as seed and put that in the wet dry filter tray.I used clear ammonia which i got from Lowes and brought the ammonia level to 5ppm. The temperature in the beginning was below 70 due to the tap water temperature. I used a 200W Aqueon heater and now the temperature is around 76F. I started the cycling on March 9. today is March 15. My ammonia level is still 5ppm and Nitrite and nitrates are in 0. I never saw the nitrite or nitrate building up. I am adding a little bit of fish food nightly. What am I doing wrong?

I know the cycling will be faster if it is 80F or above. my heater is not increasing the temp above 76. I have ordered another one (Cobalt Neo-Therm 200W)

How long it will take normally to see ammonia reducing?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

It's better to have the ammonia at 2-3ppm. 5ppm is too high. I would do a couple of 25% water changes to bring it down to the level I've indicated.

Also, stop adding the fish food nightly. You need to leave the tank alone till the ammonia drops to 0. At that point add some more to bring it back to 2-3ppm. At that point you'll start monitoring nitrites. Don't bother checking nitrites till your ammonia drops. Don't bother checking nitrates till nitrites are at 0.

You're only six days in. It's not unusual for it to take 5-10 days for the ammonia to drop. You're on the right track.


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## Bsqrd (Feb 3, 2014)

I started my cycle Mar 7th. New PFS and I planted Vals and Amazon. However my city tap water was very cold and I might have damaged plants. Leaves dying off but may come back from crowns. Anyway, put ammonia at 5ppm and temp to 80F. Added nylon bag of gravel from established tank on mar 11th. Ammonia dropped tp 0.5 to 1 ppm yesterday with slight indication on nitrites. Today ammonia the same, but nitrites very high. Added a bit more ammonia to 2-3 ppm. Will do small water change tomorrow to bring nitrites down a bit. Good luck.


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## praveentnair (Jan 4, 2014)

I was following the recipe that is given in cichlid-forum only. It says add ammonia drops until 5 ppm is reached. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... ycling.php


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## praveentnair (Jan 4, 2014)

@zimmy,

Why do you say that i should stop adding fish food? Is it because it will build up more ammonia? I was adding fish food(a very very little), because in another forum it is advised that fish food is required as bacteria need phosphate too as food.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

I tried a fishless cycle one time....at 5ppm. It didn't do anything.

I ended up reducing it to 3ppm and adding a bottle of safe start. The tank was showing Nitrate within 48 hours, and appeared to be completely cycled after about 10 days, if my memory serves correctly.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

praveentnair said:


> I was following the recipe that is given in cichlid-forum only. It says add ammonia drops until 5 ppm is reached.
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... ycling.php


I suggest this article as it's more up to date: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... _cycle.php
Adding organics while cycling increases the risks of saprolegnia (mold) due to rotting food. Less likely with flake as opposed to using raw shrimp but the possibility is still there. It's not required while cycling, pure ammonia is all that's needed. That, and patience.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

praveentnair said:


> @zimmy,Why do you say that i should stop adding fish food? Is it because it will build up more ammonia? I was adding fish food(a very very little), because in another forum it is advised that fish food is required as bacteria need phosphate too as food.





GTZ said:


> Adding organics while cycling increases the risks of saprolegnia (mold) due to rotting food. Less likely with flake as opposed to using raw shrimp but the possibility is still there. It's not required while cycling, pure ammonia is all that's needed. That, and patience.


The reason is as GTZ has outlined. There's nothing to be gained by adding fish food.

IMO there's nothing to be gained by dosing ammonia to 5ppm either. There's a school of thought that having really high nitrites will slow down a cycle significantly. By starting with such a high ammonia level, the nitrites will go off the chart once ammonia drops. I'm not saying cycling a tank can't be done by dosing to 5ppm but it's better to go with a lower level.


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## praveentnair (Jan 4, 2014)

Great advises friends. I will do a water change and will bring the ammonia level to 3 ppm. Will stop the fish food. and also will bring the temperature to 80+. One question more, my PH is 7.8. Hope it is ok.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

Crazy question but has anyone tried naturally produced human ammonia instead of buying the commercial stuff?


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## CichlidShizz (Dec 9, 2012)

> Re: Fishless Cycling - Ammonia Level
> by jeffkro » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:30 pm
> Crazy question but has anyone tried naturally produced human ammonia instead of buying the commercial stuff?


Lol... you aren't suggesting to pee in the tank are you Jeffkro?!?!


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

praveentnair said:


> One question more, my PH is 7.8. Hope it is ok.


7.8 is good. I have added baking soda to the water in the past to keep my KH up during a cycle. It's probably not an essential step but it provides a buffer against a pH crash.

What is the KH of your tap water? What do you have in the aquarium at the moment (any driftwood)? What will you be stocking the tank with?


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

CichlidShizz said:


> > Re: Fishless Cycling - Ammonia Level
> > by jeffkro » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:30 pm
> > Crazy question but has anyone tried naturally produced human ammonia instead of buying the commercial stuff?
> 
> ...


I'm thinking it could work.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

praveentnair, I know it's hard to be patient, but you'll get there! I only dosed up to 3ppm and I think it took well over a week before ammonia hit zero. my entire fishless cycle took 6 weeks to finish. it's a long time to stare at an empty tank i know. also there's no use measuring nitrite and nitrate at this time. just measure ammonia. then once you get that to zero, you begin the nitrite part of the cycle. when you are in the nitrite part of the cycle, don't measure nitrates yet. it's like a step 1, 2 ,3 and you can't jump forward to the next step.

no need to add fish food since you are already dosing ammonia.


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## CichlidShizz (Dec 9, 2012)

> CichlidShizz wrote:
> Re: Fishless Cycling - Ammonia Level
> by jeffkro » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:30 pm
> Crazy question but has anyone tried naturally produced human ammonia instead of buying the commercial stuff?
> ...


I did a quick web search for you on normal urine composition... Here's what I found: "Human urine consists primarily of water, with organic solutes including urea, creatinine, uric acid, and trace amounts of enzymes, carbohydrates, hormones, fatty acids, pigments, and mucins, and inorganic ions such as sodium (Na+), potassium (K+), chloride (Cl-), magnesium (Mg2+), calcium (Ca2+), ammonium (NH4+), sulfates (SO42-), and phosphates (e.g., PO43-)." It seems to me that by using that method, you would just be introducing too many unnecessary/unwanted solutes into the system.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

Does sound like it might be a bad idea. I'm setting up a new 40 gallon grow out tank but I'm going to take my penguin 200 off my established 60 gallon tank so I don't thinking cycling should be a big issue.


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## praveentnair (Jan 4, 2014)

zimmy said:


> What is the KH of your tap water? What do you have in the aquarium at the moment (any driftwood)? What will you be stocking the tank with?


kH is now showing 4 and GH is 89.5.

No driftwoods. Just rocks and PFS. I will post a phote later. Not taken yet. I am still working on the hood.

I am planning to have mBunas and few male peacocks. I am not sure if i will go for Haps also. I will be adding the peacocks fist and then mBunas to reduce their aggression towards peacocks. :fish:

all together i may go to 15 fishes altogether. hope this is ok for 55g tank.

Thanks
Praveen


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

I would add some baking soda to raise your KH. The usual recommendation is to add a teaspoon for every 5 gallons. I've found that pH stabilizes a little over 8.0 when you use baking soda to raise your KH.

This is a good article you may find useful if you haven't come across it already.


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## praveentnair (Jan 4, 2014)

zimmy said:


> I would add some baking soda to raise your KH. The usual recommendation is to add a teaspoon for every 5 gallons. I've found that pH stabilizes a little over 8.0 when you use baking soda to raise your KH.
> 
> This is a good article you may find useful if you haven't come across it already.


Thanks zimmy. I will read that. 
Also i have added another question about the lighting. The title is "T8 vs LED". If you could give some advises there also, that would be very helpful.

Thanks
Praveen


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