# 325 gallon eartheter tank



## HFRCampbell (Jun 24, 2008)

6ft x 2ft x 4ft. Im interested in keeping a group of this w three pairs of bolivian rams, and some tetras and corries. whats a colorfull good priced species taht would go and how many should i get? and how do i go about feeding them? also is 2 in of sand enough?


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Two inch sand will be enough. Most Eartheaters do best in groups of 5 or more but some species are harem builders. You can check the fish profile section and select some you like and come back to check what they need. Popular species are Geophagus surinamensis and Tapajos Orange Head. There are several species labeled as Eartheater and some of them are Biotodoma species, Guianacara species, Geophagus species, Satanoperca species and Gymnogeophagus species (needs cool water and a cool period during winter!!!). I suggest to keep away from the "Geophagus" brasiliensis type! Those are only suitable in a specie only tank or in a large tank with more territorial chichlids. They just don't go with tetras and smaller fish.

You can get some great info from the book from Thomas Weidner (South American Eartheaters). Al mentioned species are described in his book and it is known as the "eartheater bible". You can order it from cichlidpress.com. Great pics, great info and a very nice book!!!


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## HFRCampbell (Jun 24, 2008)

yea, i have another poston on mfk and it went a little better than this one ill get the link so you can just read it and see were it has gone./

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... p?t=160891


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

quote from other board...


> I was thinking of doing this 10 geo brasiliensis, 6 Acarichthys heckelii, 8 santanoperca jurapari, 3 pairs of bolivian rams, and then some tetras


That's not a good stock IMO. Like Dutch Dude said G. brasiliensis can be territorial and probably too much so for the other species listed. S. jurupari/S. leucosticta and A. heckelii would be good choices. If you kept G. brasiliensis a harem would be best with only one male.

I think 10-16 fish would be suitable for that tank size. Most Geophagus will make a meal out of slender bodied tetras eventually, but you could research G. "tapajos orange head", G. pindare, G. altifrons, all of those are relatively easy to find and keep. Some of my favorite species are G. abalios, G. argyrostictus and G. taeniopareius. you could also look into those. The later two species are substrate brooders unlike typical Geos.It's hard to give advice because there are so many options with eartheaters. It just depends what you prefer.


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## HFRCampbell (Jun 24, 2008)

yea idk this is kinda a fall back option if i cant get pbass, but i was thinking of doing some geo altifrons, and the acarichthys heckelii and g tapajos. With those could i keep the bolivian rams and i was thinking instead of tetras getting like 2 severums and 2 festivums and then like 4 angels would this work or is that a bit to much?


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

It is hard to say, that's a significantly larger tank than I have any experience stocking. But the bolivians and severum will be fine with the Geos and heckelii. The only thing about the festivum and angel is if you happened to get individuals that were "fin nippers" it would be a shame if they nipped the beautiful trailers the Geos develop. If it were me I would stick to the eartheater theme.

I would get all juveniles and let them grow up with a large group of tetra and see what happened. The tetra might slowly disappear but it would be a beautiful tank.

Ed


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## HFRCampbell (Jun 24, 2008)

well im thnking those eartheaters then just 3 pairs of bolivians the bolivians should stay to themselves around there pots. And then whast some good tetras, i like black widow, black phatom and bleeding heart tetras woudl schools of 35 of ea work?


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

I had the same problem with giving proper advice as Ed,...there are so many very nice species of eartheaters so all depends on what you like. I'm also used to think smaller if it comes to tanksize so it will be a bit harder to predict how the several species will behave towards each oter. Well,..lets go for the save advice on number and compatibility.

From what I have read abouth your interests I would keep far away from the Brasiliensis type of fish. They aren't only territorial but can behave even aggressive towards tank mates. They will feed on tetras and chase the other fish all the time. The behaviour of Brasiliensis is more like most CA cichlids. I have experience on this specie and kept the G. brasiliensis Bahia Red (pic of my male on the profile section).

Why would you jump in a lot of diferent species? More species doesn't alway's lead to a more interesting tank IMO. I suggest to go for larger groups in stead.

If you keep away from the more territorial Eartheathers you can add some large high bodied tetras like the blackskirts and bleedinghearts.

A. heckely is a realy nice fish with great long filaments to their fins and nice yellow to orange colors. Unfortunately I did read a lot abouth more territorial behaviour on this specie as well just like the Biotodoma. It might work in your large tank but you need to be aware of the risk (towards the Bolivians for example).

Satanoperca are known to be very peaceful especially when you know they can grow to 12 inch! They are the more delicate specie dough and need very clean soft water. This means large water changes and with such a large tank this will keep you bussy :wink:

I recommend the Geophagus species like Tapajos Orangehead, Surinamensis (a large specie), Pindare, Argyrosticktus and Altifrons. The Altifrons are the largest of the mentioned species and I don't know how they will behave towards the tetras and Bolivians.

Bolivians will not stick to their pots! They are no cave spawners and need to socialize with their own kind! It is a specie that will do very poor if dominated and hunted by larger more territorial fish. When fish are larger but peaceful they be fine and swim across the tank.

I would also go with a large group of tetras. Only 20 will be ridiciulous in such a large tank. I would go with a group of 50 or so.

I would not mix in all kind of diferent cichlids like suggested on mfk but stick to a few species in larger groups.

here some possibilities and options to think abouth.

Tank 1
- 5 Altifrons (2 male 3 female)
- 7 Tapajos Orange head
- 30 large specie of corydoras
- 4 pleco's
no tetras and no Bolivians! (low stock level becouse of aggression of Altifrons during spawning and size of the fish)

Tank 2
- 9 Tapajos Orangehead
- 7 Surinamensis
- 6 Bolivians
- 4 pleco's
- 40 Bleedinghearst

Tank 3
- 7 Argyrosticktus
- 9 Pindare
- 6 Bolivians
- 4 pleco's
- 50 black skirt

Tank 4
- 9 orangehead
- 9 pindare
- 6 Bolivians
- 4 pleco's
- 30 corydoras
- 40 Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae

Yes low stock levels becouse the change is quit large they will spawn. And during spawning they will show more aggression!


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## HFRCampbell (Jun 24, 2008)

okay thanks, i really like 2 and 3, those seem like they will be pretty cool


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## HFRCampbell (Jun 24, 2008)

is there one that i could put acara heckyii in? i would be willing to drop bolivians and tetras to have them and the brasiliness, so could i do to large groups of them and drop all the other fish then have like 2 plecos?


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi,

Before I continue to make long posts over here I like to know your goal. Some members on this board noticed quit a lot posts of your future tanks. This is going on from June 26 and below the list of tank idea's

55gal SA 
140gal oscar firemouth 
239gal plywood 
280gal Dwarf/mbuna/frontosa (maybe he has 3 of these im not sure) 
255gal "wet pet" 
329 gal CA 
325 gal eartheater tank 
344gal peacock bass tank

Thats quit an impressive list you got there. Do you actually own 8 tanks with 6 of them being larger as 200 gallon? Or,.....are you wondering what you can put in tanks of that size? Ooh and if you own the tanks maybe it is a nice idea to make a new post with pics of all your tanks and a list of species and decorations and equipment. That would realy be impressive and useful for people new in the hobby.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*Dutch Dude*
 
I'm interested in seeing photos as well.

*HFRCampbell* please read and reply to your Private message. Thank you.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> Dutch Dude
> 
> I'm interested in seeing photos as well.


 :lol: Yeah I guess we all do :wink:


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## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

Pictures would be great 

I personally love the satanoperca jurupari for an earth eater. I currently have a WC male, but have to sell him due to not being able to house him with the fish I intended on. But they have gorgeous colors, and are pretty passive.

If i am not mistaken, bolivian rams are a type of earth eater?


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Bolivians are related to the Geophagines indeed. They scientific name is Micro*geophagus* altisinosa. Their body shape does have a lot of similarities just like their behaviour and needs. Due to their size they belong to the dwarf cichlids and not to the eartheaters. I guess it is just in which box people want to put them. For people new in the hobby or with limited space I realy can recommend a group of 5 or more Bolivians (tank size at least 40 gallon!).


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Remember apistogramma are in the eartheater/geophagus family as well. :thumb:

But ironically, Guianacara aren't!! :lol:


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## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

Interesting. I never would have thought apistos were earth eaters  Weird, the Guianacara look similar to many geo's....what would classify a fish an earth eater?


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> Remember apistogramma are in the eartheater/geophagus family as well.


Thats new to me and I didn't know! Thanks dwarfpike. Are you absolutely sure Guianacara don't belong to the eartheaters? A lot of people count them among them.

I expect the eartheater families will be split into new boxes. An eartheater sifts the sand for food. Satanoperca and Geophagus show this behaviour. Guianacara and brasiliensis rarely show this behaviour.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Number6 said:


> *HFRCampbell* please read and reply to your Private message. Thank you.


I'd love to be a fly on the wall for the answer.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Eartheaters have an arched lobe on the gills, which usually have rakers for sifting sand, that other south american fish don't.

So despite _Guianacara_ looking like eartheaters physically, they are acaras. First described as an _Acara_ then kicked over to _Aequidens_, their genus name means 'Acara from the Guaynas.' They were once in the genus _Acarichthys_ when _Aequidens_ was restricted to the true acaras.

They seem to be, along with _Acarichthys heckelii_ to be the two edgepoints between Acaras and earthearters. Ie _Guianacara_ are the most eartheater like acara, and heckelii is the most acara like eartheater.

The reason they are considered acaras is becuase they lack that lobe on the gill arch that is the diagnostic for Geophagine cichlids. While fish can miss the rakers and still be considered Geophagine, they have to have that arched lobe. Yea science!! :lol:


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> they have to have that arched lobe. Yea science!!


 hahaha! Well I learned something abouth eartheaters today. If you think of it this is realy strange,....they are labeled as eartheaters and some that don't sift are also labeled as eartheiters only becouse of the lobe. How abouth Brasiliensiods by the way? They don't look like and sure don't act like an eartheater. Do they have the lobe? They are discussed for quit a while if they should become a specie on their own but nothing happened so far. You know a lot of details about SA fish dwarfpike!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Well, they have been the focus of my aquariums for about 20 years ... I started young. Though becuase of my smaller tanks, I am focusing on dwarf pikes and laetacara at the moment instead of eartheaters ... though I think once my 50 breeder is set up, I'll pick up some _Biotodoma wavrini_. _Satanoperca daemon_ are probably my fav fish, if I had to pick one. Just no room or floor support for the 180 gallon they need!

Once I even called in sick for two days and drove 300+ miles just to meet/listen to Dr. Wayne Leibel speak!! :lol:

If I remember right, brasiliensis have the arched lobe but not the rakers for sifting, kind of like heckeli, but would have to find the exact desribition to be sure. Which takes a while with my library. [/i]


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Biotodoma wavrini and Biotodoma cupid santa rem are realy nice fish!!!



> Once I even called in sick for two days and drove 300+ miles just to meet/listen to Dr. Wayne Leibel speak!!


 whaaaahahahaha! :lol: So,...was it worth it? I hope your boss didn't found out, haha!



> If I remember right, brasiliensis have the arched lobe but not the rakers for sifting, kind of like heckeli, but would have to find the exact description to be sure. Which takes a while with my library.


 Aaah OK,...I have some time. Let me guess,.....a lot of boxes in the cellar?


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I recently saw some huge wild wavrini at the LFS, they were amazing!!! There faces were electric blue and they were huge fish!! Plus they are found in the Rio Atapabo where my 'wallacii' pikes are from, so should make a nice little biotope tank.

Deffinately worth it!!! And nope, boss never knew!

Close, lots of boxes in closet! :lol:


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

I've read about the rackers, it's nice to hear some of the specifics. Isn't the surinamensis group distinguished by a variation in racker structure as well?

I also agree that the brasiliensis complex will be removed from the genus at some point.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Well, the brasiliensis complex has already been removed from the _Geophagus_ genus then it was restricted by Kullander to the surinamensis complex, but as of yet they have not been redescribed. They are currently orphans, as are the steindachneri complex, and that is why you see/should see both groups written as 'Geophagus.'

If I remember correctly, the surinamensis complex does have the rakers but they are not as well developed as the _Satanoperca_ genus.


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## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

I just learned something new today. But don't know if all that info will process and stick to my brain :lol: I guess once you really get into keeping a specific species of fish, you learn as much as you can about them....that time will come for me when I get seriously into earth eaters. I am getting kind of bored of all the african cichlids I have, I might just end up changing all tanks but one into SA cichlids


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

:lol: Well at least this thread has turned into something educational.

I'm personally waiting for the OP to return with some pics.

I have to say this has been one of the more interesting "interludes".

(I think we might be here a while....)


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

blairo1 said:


> (I think we might be here a while....)


Yes I agree.

(Now has anyone seen DBS lately? I want to see how he and cc_woman will get along.)


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## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

hes not coming back, he joined on 24 june, made all these posts about his huge tanks got called out on it and hasnt posted since.

but like blair said, at least this thread turned out very informative.


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## wmayes (Oct 22, 2007)

I think DBS actually deleted his account 

I personally loved the description about Guianacara and Acarichthys. :thumb:


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Some messages have been removed due to being off-topic. 
Thread is closed until further notice.

A special thank you to our members who made this thread both informative and useful with plenty of great info. Quite a great turn around!


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