# Sue's geo/angel tank.. Pics and will I have issues??



## DiscusQueen

Hi.. As some of you know I recently converted my discus tank to a geo/angel tank.
The tank is 120 gallon 4x2x2 and currently contains 6 baby orangehead geos from EdBurress, 6 baby angels, my adult male koi angel and a school of 10 lemon tetras. There's lots of dw and a sand substrate.. Not so great pics of the tank and inhabitants ...























and the inhabitants









































The adult angel has been in the tank for several years but I did a rescape before adding the others and he has so far accepted everyone else.. But they are all babies.. Do you think I am gonna have aggression issues either between the geos and angels or the adult angel and the others as they get bigger?? At what size (the geos are about 1 1/2 inches and the baby angels dime/nickel size) should I begin to see it if it's gonna start?? Thanks Sue


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## Isis24

WOW! I love it! I especially like the black marbled angel. really cute  Where did the wood come from? I wish I could find pieces like that!

Great tank, thanks for sharing


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## KoalaBear

Sue...

I can't help you a lot... But just wanted to say the tank is lookibg good!

I thought about having angels at one point... Agression wise I think you may see more trouble once you get pairs of anything... esp if you have multiple angel pairs.

Good luck! I can't wait to get my orange heads... Right now all I have is a tank of murky water (I filled the 75g last night and it is still cloudy from the sand)


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## DiscusQueen

Hi.. Thanks for the kind words everyone. I'm really enjoying this tank combo.. hopefully I can keep everyone together for some time..
KoalaBear.. just think by the time you get yours mine will be big enough to show your other half what they will look like in the future.. Maybe he will like that.. They are just too cute.. I just sit and watch them sift the sand.. you're gonna have so much fun with them.. Good luck with your tank..

Isis.. Thanks.. I was really looking for wild type looking angels.. but the marble babies were just so cute... so I decided as long as they were black and silver it would work.. I wanted my adult male koi to be the only koi and wanted the others to havemore natural coloring if possible..I think once the orangeheads are big enough to really have orange on them the colors should look good together..
I will try and update with more pics as I get hopefully better with the camera and the babies get bigger.
Thanks for looking... Sue


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## japes

Lovely setup for Eartheaters Sue, plenty of open sand and the driftwood setup complements it perfectly.

I'm not personally a fan of the Eartheater/Angel setup, even though they do visually work together with the Eartheaters primarily inhabiting the lower third of the tank, with the Angels in the top 2/3. Have always been a big fan of the twisty driftwood and have just forked out some cash on a few new pieces for both of my tanks so I'll have to get photos up once they fade from the bright creamy colours they are at the moment.

My only suggestion would be to fill out your shoal of Lemon Tetras a little more 

japes.


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## butter_fly382

:drooling: aweeeesome driftwood!!

what kind is it? Where did you get it?

I would definitely like some for my new tank 

you're is beautiful.. I'm jealous!


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## DiscusQueen

Hi.. Thanks for the kind words everyone..
Butter-fly.. Thanks.. the wood is mostly manzanita wood..
Japes.... Thanks for the compliments about the scape..That really means alot coming from you with your talent in that area..
I just knew you were gonna say that about the angels and the lemons.. I got the angels to grow them out while the orangeheads are growing so the tank doesn't look so empty.. As they all mature it will probably end up being a geo tank and the angels will go elsewhere.. About the lemons.. I had 14 but everything in there just looked too busy while everyone is small. The lemons were not letting the baby angels get a shot at the food..so.. Imagine me trying to fish out lemon tetras in all that driftwood HAHA.. Well I got 4 before they got smart and hid in the dw.. That's all I could get out so for now the school is 10 and everyone seems to be able to get their fair share of food.. Again once everyone grows I may be changing the combo and adding more lemons back in..LOL.. Can't wait to see more pics of your setups.. opcorn: opcorn: Sue


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## spxsk

I currently keep 10 Wild Peruvian Scalare Angels with 6 Orange head Geos in my tank. You can see the others listed in my signature.

I followed the same path you are on now, buying everyone as juveniles and growing them up. The angels are now silver dollar and larger, and the geos have laid more batches of eggs than I can count. They get them to wiggler stage, then the angels, patient as they are, come in and snack on them only at wiggler stage. I have angel pairs forming and formed in my tank, but have lots of space. My tank is 84x24x31 and I have huge pieces of driftwood in on the sides and a mother Sword dividing a portion of the center.

So far the interaction between the two species has been minimal besides the eating of fry. My tank is incredibly peaceful at times, and feeding time is something to watch! I think you find that you love your set up. Like you I keep a school of red eye tetra at the top. It is rare to find them deeper than 6 inches below the surface. The angels are everywhere, and I also have two very large severum in the tank as well.

Let me know if you have any questions, I am more than happy to help, and share my experiences with this set up.


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## DiscusQueen

Hi Spxsk... I have seen your tank before and admired it.. As a matter of fact it was part of the inspiration for the silver and black angels HAHA.. If mine were only as big as your tank then I might have been able to keep my Rambo (Rotk sev juvie) in there as well.. but he became aggressive and took a liking to my adult kois fins.. so I had to rehome him..
I really appreciate your offer of help.. I pulled out my female abn as she's was pooping so much compared to the others in there.. I'll see if I develop an algae problem other than the almost ever present black beard stuff on the plants which she didn't eat.. if so then I guess another younger abn will go in the tank.. So far everyone is getting along great and like you say.. the tank is very fun to watch.. peaceful except at feeding time and then it's like I have a tank full of sharks in a feeding frenzy.LOL.. So far the lemons are all over the tank but I'm sure as the "predators" grow the tetras will school a bit better and stay more towards the top.. we'll see.. What are you feeding yours and what temp is your tank.. I'm about 84 and they get nls, veggie flakes, shrimp pellets, frozen bbs and algae wafers and it all disapppears.. How long has the tank been setup with this combo? Is it gonna take a long time for everyone to grow big enough that you can see them if I take a tank picture??? Thanks for sharing your experience with me. I am really loving this tank.. It's almost as awesome as my discus tank was and the geos are definitely addictive.. Sue


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## spxsk

What are you feeding yours and what temp is your tank.. I'm about 84 and they get nls said:


> I am currently feeding NLS, algae wafers, Frozen brine shrimp, and frozen blood worms, occasionally they get flakes, but that is about it. Each feeding is about 1/3 - 1/2 a cup of food once melted and measured right before I dump it in. They are being fed once a day, and could easily eat twice a day like that. I keep my temperature around 86-87 degrees. I do 40-50% water changes once every 7-10 days, and run a sump and a canister filter on this.
> 
> The tank has been set up like this for about 8 months. I had the geos before this tank growing out in a 90 gallon tank. I came from keeping planted discus tanks in a previous life, and you are right, Geos can be addictive, but I have to say, I am totally in love with the angels I have and the Rotkeil male is a stunner.


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## DeadFishFloating

G'day *DiscusQueen*,

I too _love_ your driftwood, and tank setup. I keep looking at your tank and Angel and think to myself, that's not a 120g, cuase that's a bloody big Angel. :lol:


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## ktluvsfish

Beautiful setup  I love the driftwood, and your adult angel is beautiful! I keep angles and they are by far my favorite fish. Someday I hope to keep geos, but I don't have the space right now. Good luck with the tank!


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## DiscusQueen

Hi Spxsk.. Thanks for all the info.. I know what you mean about the angels.. they are so graceful while the geos are fun.. and of course your rott is definitely awesome.. So many wonderful fish.. so few tanks.. oh well... as I said I have cut back from 5 and am trying to stay that way.. So for now this tank is gonna feed my addiction.. LOL..

DFF Peter.. Thanks.. Yes my adult koi angels (one oin each tank) are huge.. they are bigger counting their long veil fins, than my open hand and fingers.. They measure more than 8 inches high.. They are both males and fight whenever I tried to keep them together even in a tank of 4 or 5 angels sooo each has his own kingdom... Glad you are enjoying the tank.. Sue

ktluvsfish.. Thanks for the kind words.. I love angels when they are young but once they mature they can turn into real little devils.. I've seen them try and kill each other.. so it's kind of a 2 edged sword but you gotta love their grace and beauty.. Hopefully the tank will be big enough that they behave..LOL.. Good luck with your tank..


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## Dutch Dude

Sue,...great looking tank :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: I like the natural look and I love that type of branches and I wish they were easier availeble over here. I'm not realy a fan of Angels although I like the looks of the Leopoldi but I'm a huge fan of the eartheater family. Great looking Orangeheads! I'm sure Ed gave them everything they need and you received best qualety fish availeble. They are fun to watch and have some behavioural simulareties with my Guianacara only are much more colorful. I particularly like their quarrels. This behaviour makes the fish funny and interesting to watch. Aldough your tank looks realy nice and provides everything the fish needs I still do have a small suggestion,......some plants floating. Imo the real floating plants can be a PITA if it comes to keep it clean (especially with heavy feedings and youngsters) but Hydrocotyle leucocephala (if I'm correct it is also labeled as penny worth) would be a nice one. It can be planted as a stem plant but it prefers to float. you could stuff it inbetween the roots so it creates a nice shaded aria and add some green at the same time. When lights levels are sufficient and there is enough iron in the water it can grow up to 6 inch a week. You might want to consider it. Without the floating plant you tank already looks great and very nice and thanks for sharing this. :thumb:


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## DiscusQueen

Hi Ruurd..
Thanks so much for the kind words.. Before when this was a discus tank I had many more plants and had pothos with the leaves growing outside the tank and the roots hanging down into the tank and really liked the look. Then I sold the discus and rescued some sevs.. In about a night the sevs tookout 30 Rummynose tetras and then went after all the plants including the pothos roots... So These are the only 2 plants that survived.. I may try the pothos again in the future..
I tried the pennywort before and it didn't do well for me I think because I have well water that is treated before it enters the house.. Everything else was fine but the pennywort just went yellow. And for this tank I really don't want to mess with adding ferts and things again.. I'm going for KISS while evryone is young... As they grow and the setup ages things may change.. I kinda look at the tank as a garden and a garden is always a work in progress.LOL..
I know what you mean about the geos... Ed's orangehead babies are definitely feeding my geo addiction. They are so darned cute.. And now, although I can't photograph it their fins are starting to have all sorts of reds and blues on them.. The baby angels, for now really compliment them and the tank.. We'll see how I feel as everyone grows out. Thanks again for the compliments and suggestions... Sue


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## SLIGHTLY STOOPID

Great start. It's about time someone put their wood in the correct orientation. More plants eventually I hope. I'm sure the fish love it it looks great.


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## Dutch Dude

Sue,.....hmmm,...sorry to hear the Sevs snacked all the tetras AND most of the plants! I read a lot of diferent stories abouth sevs. Some should be mild mannered while others are quit temperament and aggressive. Aggressive is killing tankmates like tetras without the intention to eat it,....thats killing and imo aggressive. They do are I have had some issues with cichlids and plants as well so my Guianacara tank only contains some pennyworth. Guianacara don't spend time near the surface so the penny worth is save. They tried to dig out my potted swords but couldn't succeed becouse of the stones on top,....then they changed tactic and teared of all the new leaves so the plants eventually died. I also had Brasiliensis Bahia Red that had the same tactic.

I also like the KISS thing and stepped back from the aquascaping thing. Right now I like the natural look much more and often it turns out to be easier in maintanance.

I like the floating plants with the long roots dough like Echornia but unfortunately they grow only to 2 inch in diameter on low light levels. I also found that lots of small dirt particles get stuck inbetween the root systems or on the surface. Thats not the situation with the pennyworth so thats why I prefer those as floating plant. I don't add any ferts to the tank but probably my tap water already contains enough iron and minerals to keep the penny worth going. Yellow leaves indicate nutrition lacks or to low light levels. In your case probably nutrition lacks becouse the pennyworth still grows at 0.6 WPG in my set ups.

I realy like your tank Sue and well done! Be careful with the Eartheaters becouse they can be addictive just like Discus. Before you know you have a day time job on all of the tanks,...ask Ed :wink:

I tried to mix juvi Discus and the Guianacara but unfortunately the mix didn't worked. Aggression was no problem and the addition of the Discus made the Guianacara les shy. Dough the quarreling of the Guianacara stressed the discus also becouse the Guianacara were larger at that point. I keep 6 Guianacara in the 90 gallon tank that will be a discus tank in abouth a year from now. I will receive some stendker discus in abouth 4 weeks. I want to grow them out in a bb tank and try to mix them with just 2 of the Guianacara when the discus are adults. I have to try it again with adult discus. Only 2 Guianacare won't quarel to much so I hope this works out.

Talk to you later Sue and thanks for sharing the wonderful fish and tank!


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## DiscusQueen

Hi again Ruurd..
Thanks again for the compliments and thoughts...
In my experience with discus being mixed with other fish, I've found that if you start with semi=adult/ adult discus that you've had so they know you and they are the first ones in the tank so it is their tank, they can adapt to having quite a few different tankmates.. Of course a lot depends on the personalities of the discus and the aquascaping of the tank... So I would think your plan for the discus/guianacara tank might have possibilities.. The only issue might be the footprint of the tank.. My discus have always spent a lot of time on the bottom playing/looking for food in the sand.. so I don't know if adults of both species "playing" on the bottom will stress your discus.. How many discus are you planning on having with the 2 guianacara... as long as there's at least 6 of them I think you have a good chance.. It's certainly worth a try.. :thumb: Love to see pics when you get your discus opcorn: opcorn: 
If I had a bigger tank I think I would love to see discus with the orangeheads.. well maybe some day.. talk to you later... Sue


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## Dutch Dude

Hi Sue,....my plan is to grow the 3 inch discus out to at least 4 1/2 inch before they will be introduced. I will reduce the quantity on driftwood so cleanings become easier. Guianacara are mild mannered but can keep them selves well with larger and more agresive fish. Ã


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## DiscusQueen

Hi... Just a quick update... sorry no more pics yet.. waiting til they are big enough to see in a full tank shot HAHA.. Everyone is getting along great. The baby angels are now all at least nickel size. The adule male koi angel shoos them away occasionally but that's it as far as aggression goes so far.. The orangehead babies are growing.. at least 2 of them are now 2-2 1/2 inches and really starting to have nice fin colors and one even seems to be getting some orange by his nose.. Altho it could be wishful thinking LOL.. But my husband says he sees it too.. :lol: :lol: I'm thinking I may soon try and take out the rest of the lemon tetras as they really don't add much to the tank and I'm not a big tetra fan.. To do that tho I'm gonna have to take out some of the wood or I'll never be able to catch them.. That is not gonna be a fun day.. After they are out I will try and post more pics.. Thanks again everyone for all the interest.. Ruurd did you get your discus yet?? Sue


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## Dutch Dude

Hi Sue,.....were are the pics???? Catching the tetras can be a huge challenge in a tank with a lot of driftwood. Best is to do when the lights just have turned on in the morning. The tetras will be a bit sleepy. Good to hear everything goes well and the fish grow nicely. Will the tetras be replaced for something diferent? Did you thought abouth corydoras hastatus for example?

I will receive the Stendker Discus in abouth 2 weeks and I receive them straight from Stendker. There is an aquarium and terrarium show in Holland and Stenker (including discus Hans) will be there as well. So I will meet the Stendker staff and receive the fish over there. The big advantage is that I receive the fish straight from the hatchery so no contamination or setbacks from the lfs. I realy look forward to it. It will be Santarem or Alenquer and most likely the Alenquers. Thanks for asking Sue!


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## DiscusQueen

Hi Ruurd... Well..I liked your suggestion of catching them in tne morning when the tetras are a bit sleepy... only problem is I am still sleepy too :lol: :lol: :lol: I am not a morning person that's for sure.. 
So since It was raining when I woke up I decided today was the day.. I tried for a while with the driftwood in the tank but those lemons are some mighty fast tetras :fish: :fish: :fish: 
As I'm sure everyone, including me, expected.. I had to really lower the water and take out all the driftwood.   .. Even then it took quite a while to catch all 10 of them.. But since they were the only ones I was after, both the angels and the orangeheads seemed not to be bothered by all the commotion.. I took the opportunity to clean the wood and rescape pretty similar to how it was as I really liked the look.. I really like the look of the setup without the lemons.. the yellow just didn't add anything to the tank.. and because both the angels and geos have a lot of white, silver, black and orange, the lemon color just looked strange next to the whites.. if that makes any sense.. They are nice, for tetras, but artistically it just didn't work for me..
I am going to leave the setup as is for now.. If I can find a nice pair of rams.. maybe.. but they have to be awesome.. I love cories but I think I will wait til everyone grows bigger before I add any if ever.. I like a fairly mellow tank and am liking the combo right now.. Hope you get those discus soon.. I saw your question on Simply.. whatever name you call them, they are beautiful discus and I think it's gonna be interesting to see what Heiko says about your proposed combo with the guianacara... Talk to you soon... Pics in a few weeks... Sue


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## KoalaBear

Sue,

Glad to hear everyone is doing well! Talk about an adventure catching tetras... I think the only thing worse would be working for a LFS with a kid that says "I want that one!" And not only that but they can spot it over and over again!

I stumbled across some lemons and also gold tetras the other day. I happened to know the shop owner and he basically gave them to... So they are all in the 75g awaiting the orange heads. I am not sure if I really like either... They don't school like the tetras I have had in the past... But they also do not have anything to be scared oif in the tank. They make the tank look really busy. I might have to drastically cut back the school to see if that helps give it a better look... Don't want to take away from the OHs when they get here! I can't wait to get my rams... And I think they will be moved back to the 55g when the OHs get bigger.

Can't wait to see some new pictures!


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## DiscusQueen

Hi KoalaBear... That was basically the same issue for me.. When I had the 30 rummynoses with my discus they schooled beautifully and added to the setup. The lemons, while nice looking tetras, started as a school of 14 and made the tank seem very busy especially after I got the baby angels. So First I cut the school back to 10.. Then they just didn't school tightly and the color was just off so.. I think I would probably feel the same way about most tetras and the rummys would get eaten I'm sure, so no more tetras for this tank... Maybe rams if I can find some great ones.... but for now I really like the combo of the angels mostly up top and the geos mostly sifting on the bottom.. They hardly acknowledge each other but compliment each other nicely.. Of course at feeding times they now all come to the top and then scour the sand for leftovers... :lol: :lol: I still love watching the orangeheads.. you're gonna love yours.... I'm holding off on pics until everyone grows a bit so you can actually tell what they are in the photos... so probably a few weeks.. but I promise I will do some.. This is becoming one of my favorite tanks.. Sue


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## spxsk

Sue, if you like the white and black theme, I am using red eye tetras in my tank. They form a very tight school, and are almost never separated. I cannot wait to see the new pics of the tank.


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## Dutch Dude

> Hi Ruurd... Well..I liked your suggestion of catching them in the morning when the tetras are a bit sleepy... only problem is I am still sleepy too I am not a morning person that's for sure..


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Take the lights out and make the tank dark with cloths surrounding for abouth 2 hours also works. Tetras are fast swimming and can be clever as well. Often it is easier to catch them in a corner of the tank but when you successfully take out some tetras the remaining group will avoid the corners. From a distance lemons are a but dull in color but up close they have realy magnificent coloration. I can imagine they don't fit in your set up if it comes to colors. What abouth blackskirts or the fast moving pinguin fish? Pinguin fish easely fit the mouth of the geo's but they are very fast and spend most of the time near the surface. They school well and swim from side to side.

The Santarem and Alenquer turned out to be the same specie so I don't have to chose any more with makes things easier. I didn't visit the forum today but probably I have to PM Heiko abouth the Discus / Guianacara mix. I'm pretty confident 2 Guianacara will work well with 6 adult discus (the red turq) but I would like his opinion on this.


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## DiscusQueen

Spxsk. & Ruurd... Hi thanks for the ideas.. For now I think I'm gonna leave things as they are.. It's a very enjoyable tank to watch... As the geos get bigger maybe I will take another look at tetras but now they just make the tank too busy for me.. 

Japes.. I don't know if you are still following this or not.. but you mentioned EartheatersAustralia on another forum and I finally got round to looking at it.. Great site with beautiful pics and lots of info.. keep up the good work :thumb: :thumb: .. fot those of you unfamiliar with it take a look.. it's very well done.. You can type in EartheatersAustralia or go to any post by Japes and click on his signature.. Just more great food for eartheater junkies :lol: :lol: 
Thanks youall for your kind words and ideas... Sue


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## Dutch Dude

Hi Sue,....plenty to look at right now and thats the good thing on growing up youngsters. I hope you keep us posted on the Geo's as well as the Angels.


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## HiImSean

spsxk, are the red eye tetras not too small for your rotkeils to eat? i have a 6" rotkeil and a 5" psittacus in my tank and want to put something smaller and schooling in that wont get picked off in one day.


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## spxsk

HiImSean said:


> spsxk, are the red eye tetras not too small for your rotkeils to eat? i have a 6" rotkeil and a 5" psittacus in my tank and want to put something smaller and schooling in that wont get picked off in one day.


As long as you are not buying very small red eyes you should be fine. My Rotkeils are bigger than 6" and do not even look at mine, not to mention the red eyes form a tight school and stay toward the top of the tank. No idea on what will happen with the psittacus though, no experience with them.


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## ktluvsfish

Sue,
I am glad that your tank is going well  I can't wait to see more pics when you get some. I am not really a tetra fan either. I just took the red eye tetras and gold tetras out of my 80 gallon tank a couple weeks ago. It was such a pain. It would be nice if you could add a pair of rams or a school of cories to the tank. Thanks for keeping us updated :thumb:


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## DiscusQueen

Hi.. Just another quick update... No.. No pics yet..  .maybe in a few weeks when everyone is a lot bigger than before and you can really see how they look together in the tank..
But I decided that since everyone is getting along great I would probably not add anything else to the tank for awhile unless.... more geos or some rams but the rams would have to be fantastic and not Asian... I had not planned to order anything only if by luck I happened on them..
Well my lfs guy came thru for me :thumb: . On Saturday he got some suppossedly German rams in and they are beautiful. I picked out 2 definite males and 2 either females or very young males.. It was hard to tell as they were still in a bit of shipping shock and had not fully colored up.. 
I put them in my plastic 15 gallon QT bin along with a sponge filter, heater, dw, xmas moss and some large flat rocks. I figured after about 2 or 3 weeks it would be safe to add them to the big tank.. Well no doubt now... I have two pairs and each of the females has spawned on a large flat rock at either end of the tank.. This either happened today or yesterday... between the plastic and the small size of the eggs I didn't notice until a few hours ago.. It's very exciting... I love it when my fish spawn... My discus use to spawn every 10 days and it fasinated me... Loved watching them raise their young.. As I understand it rams are usually bad parents and egg eaters but we'll see what happens.. Must be something in my water I guess.. :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Anyways never a dull moment in Sue's fish world.. They will be going into the big tank but just not sure when yet.. I promise pics at that point if not sooner.. I think they will make a nice addition to the tank.. Sue


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## Dutch Dude

Still no picks  German rams are beautiful fish but quit delicate as well. I hope they are realy German but lots of apisto's and rams come from the Czech. rep. nowaday's. Those are often invested with flaggelates (cousing bloat). I suggest to keep a close eye on them and metro at hand,.....but most of all I hope you don't need meds at all and you received a perfect qualety of Rams. They indeed are known to be very poor parents. I gues this is becouse most fish in the trade are artificially raised and have a lack on brood care becouse of this. But it should be posible to breed them especially with such experienced fish keepers like yourselves.



> My discus use to spawn every 10 days and it fascinated me


 wow,..that often! Must have been a real joy to watch! Mine start pairing up and so funny to see them shiver and head shake and bending and bowing! By the way,...this weekend I receive the new batch and I keep everyone posted on their development by a new treat over here.

I look forward to the pics


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## peathenster

Congrats Sue! They are beautiful fish and a lot of fun to watch. I used to have two pairs that spawned every 8 days - still regretting that I gave up on them.

The fry are supposed to be very small and somewhat difficult to care for in the beginning - you might consider getting a microworm culture going soon.


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## DiscusQueen

Hi Ruurd and Peter... I know pics.. but not quite yet.   . soon I promise
Thanks for the info about the rams.. I remembered that Kathy/KatieRose had been breeding them for quite some time and was able to pull up some of her old threads.. Yes they are poor parents. I am encouraged about one of the pairs tho.. The one pair's eggs have been eaten but the second pair still has eggs. Both the male and female are taking turns guarding the eggs and fanning them.. However it's not like my discus. With the discus the eggs were never left unguarded and often the "guard" refused to come to take food while they were guarding.. They waited until their partners came and switched places with them and then they ate.. With the rams, iof there is food then all four go for the food leaving the eggs unguarded.. But the rams sure are spunky little things.. The females still chase the females and the males spar with other males.. :lol: :lol: 
Peter did you ever have the opportunity to raise any fry from yours???
Ruurd.. I am closely following your other thread and can't wait for the weekend and maybe pics of your new arrivals.. opcorn: opcorn: 
I will see what happens over night.. if the pair continues to guard the eggs I will leave the rams in qt.. if I wake up to no eggs left then I will move them to the big tank.. Then a few days later I will try and take some updated pics.. I added a very small sword to the tank to give the rams more vegetation/cover and did a tiny rescape..
Thanks everyone for the kind words and helpful info.. to be continued.. Sue


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## Dutch Dude

Hi Sue,....Cathy Geiger indeed breeds Bolivians and GBR. When she bought new fish the first thing she did was treat them with metro becouse they were almost all the time invested with flagellates. I didn't seen her on this board for a long long time and unfortunately we lost contact so I can't help you on her e-mail. You could try to send her a PM for more info and she might respond. I'm sure she can provide you a lot of info. I hope the parents do a better job as the average Ram and you will have good qualety parent raised Rams.

I have seen your post and I did the first up-date today. First pics of the fish can be expected somewhere around monday or tuesday. :wink:


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## peathenster

DiscusQueen said:


> Peter did you ever have the opportunity to raise any fry from yours???


Nope  They were in my community tank and the eggs always got eaten overnight. I read up on how to care for the fry and looked pretty hard, so I didn't even try... 

Good luck!


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## DiscusQueen

Hi all... Well I just went and checked and as predicted the second batch of eggs was eaten  .. Well it was their first try and I really didn't want to set up any more tanks right now.. I am just happy that I have two pairs and one set looks to be good parents in the future if I do decide to set up a breeding tank. Either today or tomorrow I will put them in the big tank and see how everyone gets along..
Ruurd.. I think Cathy stopped breeding rams and went on to breed rainbows.. I believe her husband had them as well.. Seems to me that when I had rainbows a while ago that was her plan.. But thanks again for the info and if I decide to breed them I will definitely try and get in touch. I will be closely following your other post as I'm sure the pics will be great as well as the info opcorn: opcorn: Can't wait to see the discus... Sue  
Peter.. I kinda got the same impression from Cathy's posts so for right now I'm gonna put them in the big tank as well.. raising fry maybe in the future but not now.. Take care Sue :lol:


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## DiscusQueen

Hi all... Well since all the blue ram eggs got eaten I decided to put the two pairs in the big tank with the rest of the gang.. I rehomed the big adult angel as I really wanted someone to breed him because he was so beautiful. So now the 120 has 6 baby orangeheads that are growing bigger every day,, The biggest is about 2 1/2 inches, 6 baby angels.. the biggest almost quarter size, 4 rams... tiny feisty little folks that challenge the geos for shrimp pellets and win :lol: :lol: :lol: 
I just started to investigate the photo bucket edit system as my picassa is not working for some reason.. so if you combine that with my not so great pic skills.. well excuse the quality of the pics.. but I wanted youall to see how the ohs are really getting some color including that famous orange head beginning on my biggest what I assume is a male.. also the colors on the rams are amazing even tho they move sooo fast the shots are not great.. Trust me I did not photo audit the colors as I don't know how to do it yet.. these are the real amazing colors.. So hopefully here comes some photos including one where you can see everyone in the tangles of driftwood.. I am really enjoying the tank and hope you enjoy the photos.. full tank shots when everyone gets a bit bigger... Sue


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## edburress

Sue, the youngster Geos are looking good and the blue rams look very nice too. I also like the look of the substrate :thumb: Thanks for the update, I'll keep an eye out for more.

Ed


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## Dutch Dude

Hey,....great to see some picks  Realy great fish Sue :thumb: Those GBR are realy good looking with strong vibrant colors! Those baby orange heads are also looking great and already start to show some color. I agrea on Ed,....nice substrate and very natural! I would not be surprised the orange heads would flip over some small pebbles to check what is underneath. I'm not that much of an angel guy but your seem to be very well fed and appear healthy and show nice paterns and finage. A great looking tank Sue and you did a great job on it :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Lets keep the pics coming


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## DiscusQueen

Hi thanks Ed and Ruurd for the compliments..
Ed.. When you get babies from great stock you just can't help grow them out as beauties.. thanks again for letting me get them...  
Ruurd.. yes they do move the small stones and go under the big ones to see what's there :lol: :lol: and I am amazed at the colors the orangeheads are beginning to show.. I can't really capture their red and blue in the finnage because of the light substrate and my lack of photo skills.. The colors on the gbrs are awesome.. I really did nothing to the pics and the flash washed out some of the colors.. The one male in the tiny pic with the yellow looking fins is yellow orange red and blue almost psychodelic (I need spell check I think hahha).. Anyways you should see that little male ram browbeat the big orangeheads it's a riot.. I'm still not sure about the angels.. I think as everyone grows I will try and cut back on the angels numbers and maybe if I can find them trade the marbles for halfblacks... to be continued..... I promise I will try and get full tank shots in a few weeks when everyone has grown more.. Now it's your turn for more pics on your thread.. also gotta feed my discus addiction :lol: :lol: Sue


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## Dutch Dude

Haha,..so they check underneath stones what is underneath? My Guianacara do the same and it is funny to watch. I put in some small parts of driftwood of only 2 to 3 inch that is moved around all the time. It keeps them bussy and is fun to watch.

The OH indeed seem to show a lot of color for their age / size! The GBR look realy awesome and amazingly strong colored! Flash of a digicam can be a PIT if it bounces back. For that reason I take my pics with the flash turned off. Only drawback is that pics are often moved. Still I can take better pics with the flash off. Any way,....I leave the real qualety pics to guy's like Blair and Ed. I'm surprised the small male GBR wins of the OH, haha! I gues the GBR have more temperament as I would have expected. Why cut down the number of angels? Do you expect problems with the curent number?

Right now it is 20:40 and its is almost dark outside,.....time to make some new pics and put them on the Discus grow out post. :wink: So after that it is your turn again


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## KoalaBear

Sue...

The youngesters are looking great! I cant wait to get mine 

Your rams look wonderful! I love the color of those guys... I know that the 2 dominant males I have are just gorgeous... esp when they are courting their ladies! Today one of the pairs was both in full breeding colors cleaning off a spot on the driftwood... wouldnt be surprised if I have more eggs shortly...

I love your tank... fish... angels... all of it  Cant wait to see a full tank pic!


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## DiscusQueen

Hi again... Thanks so much Ruurd and Alnee..
Ruurd.. I am only thinking that as everyone grows I might like the look better if there were less angels and or pairing might cause problems.... just have to wait and see.. For now everyone gets along and the geos and angels pretty much ignore each other except for feedings when the "race is on" and the take looks like a shark feeding frenzy :lol: :lol: The feisty ones are the rams,, The dominant blue ram will chase the geos that are at least twice his size away from anything he thinks is "his". be it food or a rock whatever.. It's a riot to watch.. He and his mate are very aggressive.. I have had to remove the less dominant pair to my husbands smaller tank.. The dominant pair would not let them rest or eat.. They were all fine together in the qt tank I guess because there was so much moss, plants, dw and not much open area.. In this tank there is not much of an escape area for them and the dominant ram and his mate have claimed the entire tank as theirs. :lol: :lol: :lol: They certainly are much more aggressive than the bolivians I used to have.... Did you ever get a response back about the discus/ guianacara combo?? I will keep watching your thread for more wonderful pics... Sue  
Alnee... Great that you are enjoying your rams and hopefully soon some of Ed's wonderfull oh babies.. soon hopefully we will see your photos. opcorn: opcorn: .Sue


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## Dutch Dude

Good to hear everyone get along fine for now and lest hope things will be like this in the future as well. The angels and OH grow up together so this gives the best chance imo. Haha, I can imagine they act like sharks during feeding time. Both the angels and the OH are fast feeders.

I'm realy surprised abouth the behaviour of the GBR. Bolivians are very peaceful but when they have fry they can chase away fish 4 times their size. It sounds like your GBR chase away fish 4 times their size without having fry :lol: I considered a few times to mix GBR in with Discus and Apisto's but after this I don't think it will work, haha!

I didn't get a responce back from Heiko and he probably just skipped by on SD. It looks like he isn't visiting the site as much lately. I didn't send him a PM by the way. But,.....I asked Hans abouth it. He never mixed discus and eartheaters but a friend of him did. He knew the Guianacara group and he thought they might work out well becouse of Guianacara breeding in caves (not to many issues abouth territories) and are a peaceful specie. My plan is to keep 2 Guianacara in with the discus and put the other 4 in the 50 gallon and sell the Bolivians. Imo 6 Guianacara and 7 discus is way to much for a 90 gallon. Besides that the group of Guianacara will quarel within their own specie and stress the discus. Just 2 of them won't quarel. I just give it a shot (when the alenquers are at least 5 inch). I have back up possibilities so no problem.


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## DiscusQueen

Hi again Ruurd...
I think the reason the dominant male ram is so aggressive to the other pair is because both pairs spawned in the qt tank and the dominant pair are really colored up and probably are looking to spawn again.. You combine that with the lack of greenery and I think that's the problem... If I had the tank planted like when it was a discus tank it would probably be ok to have the 2 pairs in there as they really would have very seperate territories.. I think that the rams would be fine with discus..
For me I have to pick what is the centerpiece of the tank first.. In my discus tank it was the discus so they were in before anyone else and it worked well.. I think especially with discus if you do it that way then they own the tank and any newcomer has to adjust... My adult angel had to adjust and all went well.. So In your 90 I would do the discus first, let them own the tank and then add the guinanacar ... I think you would have a lot of success this way... I agree that 7 discus and 6 guianacara are way too much for the 90 because of the adult size of the discus.. I like your idea of 2 if they don't quarrel too much.. If they are like the pics I've seen, they almost remind me of Keyholes... Another peaceful fish that could probably be kept with almost anything.. 
The same goes for my geo tank... they are the centerpiece so everyone else has to accomodate them.. However, while the angels realize this, I don't think the rams get the picture yet :lol: :lol: :lol: .. Just wait til the geos get a bit bigger :lol: :lol: .. I have also thought about adding an apisto , if I could find any, to the tank but now am thinking probably not.. well see if now that they are the only rams in the tank they become a bit more friendly with everyone else..
Take care Sue


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## DiscusQueen

Hi all... Just a quick note... NEVER underestimate the determination of a pair of spawning blue rams.. I checked the tank to find the rams "herding" like sheep dogs all the other fish in the tank.. They have the orangeheads on the right side of the tank and the angelfish on the left front.. :lol: :lol: Bear in mind all these fish are more than twice the size of the rams.. I searched the dw and the rams have spawned on the dw piece where it is flat.. They are fiercely defending this spot and what they consider their turf... most of the tank... It is a riot to watch the great big oh's fleeing in terror :lol: :lol: .. No one is being hurt but it is fun.. The rams are each taking turns guarding the eggs but ever so often they both leave to perform their herding duties... I doubt the eggs will make it thru the night but you never know..... to be continued..Sue


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## blairo1

Hey Sue, lovely tank! :thumb:

I'm bbq'ing so I'll leave it short and sweet .


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## DiscusQueen

Hi.. Thanks for the compliments Blair.. remember back in Dec when we discussed a ram/geo combo... couldn't find any great bolivians but these guys are a hoot :lol: :lol: I know they aren't supposed to live to long so we will see what happens as everyone grows older.. The bbq sounds great.. here it's in the 70s and the sun is shining what kind of weather are youall having??? Sue


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## Dutch Dude

Hey Sue,.....I was quit bussy this week so I didn't spend much time on the forum. I had a good laugh abouth the storey of the GBR herding all the fish in the corner,......fish that are 3 times the size of a ram, hahaha! Funny creatures and beautiful colored as well. So Sue,....what did hapened with the eggs? Did they eat them or did some of them make it to wigglers?

The weather is great over here and today the temp raised to 71 while 61 is normal for this time of the season. Global warming does have some advantages :wink:


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## DiscusQueen

Hi again... Well, as I suspected the eggs made it thru the night but not the next one.. and the female ram is not looking soo good... her colors are kinda faded looking.. maybe wornout from all the spawning.. Maybe doing the blue ram thing of not having a long life... I have no idea how old she is.. or not being from the best stock... I will be carefully monitoring her.. The male of course is his normal colorful feisty self :lol: :lol: Now that they are no longer guarding eggs they are much more neighborly with their tankmates... They have even decided that they can grab the NLS pellets just like the big boys rather than waiting for flakes.. They definitely have a lot of personality packed into a tiny fish. I only have the one source for rams so hopefully she will make it. I called the lfs and the rest of the batch they had did not make it.. nor did the pair I put into my other tank.. but I thought that was because of too many transitions from tank to tank after spawning and then being bullied by the dominant pair... so we shall see.. Now I understand about folks having problems with them... If I try them again I will definitely try and find a breeder.. For now I will cross my fins about this pair being fine.. Then there is always the option down the line of bolivians again :lol: :lol: I really enjoyed them when I had them before and since the baby geos are growing I have lowered the temps to 82/83 hummmmm..
The geos are doing great.. gaining size and color.. definitely some orange noses in the group.. If size is any indicator I think I will have 2 males and 4 females.. Two are quite a bit larger and thicker in body than the rest and are coloring up faster.. again we will see what happens..
The angels are growing and getting along fine with everyone..
I added the albino bn back in the tank as there was too much "fuzz" developing on the driftwood. he poops a lot but is doing a great job with the wood.. so I guess it's a tradeoff :lol: 
More pics to come in a few weeks when I have something to show :lol: :lol: Sue


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## DiscusQueen

Hi again... Well the female blue ram did not make it.. I went to town to see if I could find some meds and by the time I got back home, without being able to find meds, she was gone    . However the male is just fine and feisty. So I am gonna try and find him a mate. I emailed Cathy G. (Katie Rose) who used to raise them and both she and Ruurd recommended medicating them in qt so I'm gonna go that route with the new ones when I find them. Meanwhile everyone else is doing great and the male ram doesn't seem to notice he is missing a mate.. must be one of those "guy things". :lol: :lol: But I know he needs one so hopefully can find him one that's healthy. To be continued... Sue


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## blue acara

Hi Sue, sorry for your loss of the ram, is it one of the german blue ram types? These things are not the hardiest of fish due to inbreeding/line breeding. 
Congratulations on the good looking tank tho it is definatly an inspritation for me as *** just sold my discus and am looking for another south american type setup and this may be the way I go.


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## DiscusQueen

Hi Blue acara... Thanks for the compliments.. Also check out Japes tanks as Ryan was definitely an inspiration to me.. As to the rams... yes they were blue rams. Sadly the last male died unexpectedly yesterday   ... he was doing just fine and I was getting him a mate in a week or so and going to pretreat with meds per Cathy and Ruurd's advice.. If I get any more in the future I will definitely pretreat them... For now I will leave the tank as is. I really enjoy the geo and angel combo.. While I miss my very regal discus, this is a very lively and fun tank.. I think you would probably enjoy it as well. Because the geos and angels are still juvies, I treat the tank almost like my discus tank as to temps 83 ish and lots of water changes because of several feedings.. They are all like puppy dogs.. as soon as I am anywhere in eyesight they all come to the front of the tank wagging their fins for food and attention :lol: :lol: . I suggest you look into the geos. They are really a kick... Sue


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## japes

Any photo updates Sue? I imagine your Geophagus sp. "Tapajos Orange Head" are coming along quite nicely by now.


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## benl.1036

You should definately put live plants in theere with that driftwood.


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## DiscusQueen

Hi there..
Japes... new pics soon I promise... I just figured out how to turn off the automatic flash :lol: :lol: :lol: .. I love my tank...Now if only I had your wonderful photographic skills :drooling: :drooling: so I could capture how it really looks in person..
Benl... those are live plants in there... So far the geos are only slightly uprooting the newest sword I just put in.. :lol: :lol: 
Take care sue


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## Dutch Dude

> They are all like puppy dogs.. as soon as I am anywhere in eyesight they all come to the front of the tank wagging their fins for food and attention


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Must be amusing to watch this behaviour! I also like the curious behaviour of the eartheaters like the OH and my Guianacara and them checking underneath leaves, driftwood and they even might move or flop over small stones to see what is underneath. Discus are realy the king of the fish but geo's are a very good second choice and known to be easier to take care for.

I never had much luck with geo's and plants and mine start up-rooting them until I put some stones on the foot of the plants. Then they start tearing of new leaves so the plants died eventually becouse the only leaves were teared and old leaves with a lot of algea. In stead I added a lot of driftwood to compensate for cover.

I look forward to see some new pics :wink:


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## Dutch Dude

Hi Sue,......How are the fish doing??? I'm sure they have grown since you last pics. Soooooo,...can we see some new pics???


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## DiscusQueen

Hi there... Just a brief update as things have been kinda crazy around here lately... Sorry no pics right now   as I can't find my cord that hooks up between the camera and the computer.. I put it away somewhere "safe" and now can't find it. :lol: I'm sure it will turn up soon..

Everyone is doing great... The angels have one runt of the 6 that is only about nickel size but the others are all quarter and halfdollar size.. They grew really fast and are getting some nice patterns on them.. The orangeheads had a little growth spurt and the largest is close to 3 inches.. 3 of them have noses that are a bit orange and the 2 largest have developed a lot of blue and red on the fins and yellow on the lower body and fins. Even when I find my hookup I'm not too sure if I can capture the colors on film but I will try.
I have been feeding only 2 or 3 times a day and less food and the planaria have disappeared from sight.. I'm sure they are still in the tank but that's ok.. I am also cutting back on the 50% water changes to only once every 6 days or so and that seems to work out fine... Because the tank is so big and right now the fish are so small, the nitrates are staying below 5 and everyone seems happy. The bn is still in the tank doing his job and the others all ignore him.. His bristles are getting very evident now.. a whole lot more than just a stubble :lol: :lol: And the plants continue to thrive.. The OHs investigate them for food scraps but are really not attempting to dig them up even tho they could easily dig up the newly planted sword.. I still have the big rocks anchoring the plants but I don't foresee any problems between the ohs and the plants until maybe they are much bigger...
This is really an enjoyable tank and I highly recommend the angel/geo combo. They seem to ignore each other but really combine well to fill out the tall tank. Thanks for all the interest and pics to follow as soon as I find that "great safe storage place".. :lol: :lol: Sue


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## Dutch Dude

Hi Sue,...how are the OH and angels doing??? Found the cable for the camera so we can see some new pics or is the cable still at a "safe" spot :lol:

Nice to know the OH and angels do so well together. Your OH grow nicely and 3 inch is a good size. You will find out eartheaters grow in a same pattern as discus. First rather quickly and then slow down with growth plateau's inbetween. The older they get the longer the plateaus last. They already have a good size to them so they probably grow out to large specimen. Good to hear they don't touch the plants but I expect this to change when they start to mature and show interest in breeding and start rescaping your tank. :wink:

Ruurd


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## DiscusQueen

Hi everyone... A quick update.. While the fish have grown a lot and are still enjoying each others company and have greatly improved their coloration, I unfortunately have not improved my photo skills :lol: :lol: Guess I will have to start practicing..
What I have tried to show in these few photos is exactly how much color is developing on the orangeheads and angels rather than attempting perfect pictures as I can't compete with most of you... but the fish can :thumb: . The largest orangehead is about 4 inches now at about 8 1/2 months... was 1 /1/2 when I got them at about 3 months.. The largest oh has also developed trailers which I tried, mostly unsuccessfully, in the pics..the largest angels's bodies are about 3 inches (not counting fins) the smallest around silver dollar size... was dime to nickel size when I got them at the same time in Feb.. and most of the marbel angels have developed orange foreheads..
I removed the rest of the plants as the orangeheads were kicking so much sand on them and digging around the roots for food that it just looked and was too messy. Now everyone has more room in the tank and it is easier to clean..
I promise to practice and do better photos as these are almost an insult to the beauty of the fish.. but hope you enjoy them.. one I threw in because I just liked the artistic quality of the shot even with the water stains or whatever :lol: :lol:

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo15/DiscusQueen/geoteens033-1.jpg[/IMG
[img]http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo15/DiscusQueen/geoteens001.jpg









































I hope better photos next time with the next update.. Sue


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## edburress

Sue, glad to see the Orange Heads are maturing, that male really looks great! better than his dad I believe, a good sign that you're doing a great job with them. In the second to last picture, the fish to the far right is also a male. Maybe you will end up with a really good ratio!

Keep the updates coming, and I'd love to see more pics :thumb: It's really nice and rewarding to see them growing up

Ed


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## DiscusQueen

Hi Ed.. Thanks.. It really helps to start with great babies from great parents... hopefully these will grow up to make you proud.. I think I have either 2 or 3 males and 3 females.. I'm pretty sure at least 3 are the females as they are staying considerably smaller than the males and so far less colorful.. The second largest fish has begun to start to really color up now too.. I think by the next time I post pics in a few weeks he will be very colorful too.. The largest has begun to develop trailers and I will attempt to capture them next time also.. Someday I will figure out how to work the camera and of course teach the fish to stay still for a photo shoot. :lol: :lol: Sue


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## Dutch Dude

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Sue,...you have done an amazing good job! Wow those fish have grown! They all look nice filled and happy with perfect strong colors!!! Beautiful fish Sue and I love them!!!! :drooling: :thumb:


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## DiscusQueen

Hi Ruurd.. My fish and I say thanks for the compliments. I really can't believe how beautiful the colors are in person... I just can't capture it well enough.. but you get the idea.. Yes the orangeheads have really started to fill out.. It's gonna be interesting to see how they all mature in the future. I will keep posting as I see changes. Thanks again Sue


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