# Selecting Cichlids



## Inspiire (Jun 1, 2009)

I have had a few Cichilds in the past, but got rid of them not long after I got them. My tank is free again, because I gave my 5 Guppies (One was a little over 2 years old) and 1 Spyder Tetra to my 2 year old nephew. He always ran over to the tank to see the "kish." So now he has his own 10 gallon tank with his own kish. Oh, he also has a "sharky."

Well, I wanted something a little bigger than the guppies and I was getting tired of them. I thought about Cichlids because they have an interesting personality and don't just swim around like ordinary fish.

I'm disassembling the tank this week to give it a good scrub down, and sand the wood trim to get it ready to stain a different color. I have round stones for the bottom, and regular fake plants. I also have quite a bit of assorted flat stones to make formations. I'm really going for the "slate" style tank.

I will try not to use too much decorations because my tank isn't the biggest. But, it will also have plenty of cover, caves, places to explore, etc.

Now, the real question. I don't have a place located around me to pick from select species of cichilds. I have Petsmart, Wal-Mart, and a local pet-store that has been open since 1991. It's aquarium step-ups are better, and I feel more comfortable buying from them. They only carry the "assorted" cichlids though. They seem to get along with each other in the tank, so I figure they will get along in my personal tank. They sell them in 3 different sizes, Large (about 5 inches), Medium (about 3-3.5 inches) and small (about 1.5 inches). I don't really care that they are "assorted" as I have no particular species in mind. So, I have two questions...

1. Which size should I go for? I'm hoping to have about 4 fish.

2. I'm okay with them breeding, so do I need to get ones that look the same to pair? (i.e., two blue ones with two yellow ones, or all blue, or all yellow, etc?)

I don't know how to sex them, but I'm assuming its easier with the "Large" ones?

I also know that I'm taking a chance because I don't know what sex I'm getting. If I end up with a pair and two other females, what do I do with the two extra females?

Thanks in advance to anyone that can help!


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## howajj (Apr 8, 2009)

good morning what size tank? go with small ones so they grow up together. and before you jump in read and research all you can...take your time. cichlids are a very particular group especially african mbuna with their territories, social aspects and such. read about filtration, habitat, feeding, water parameters etc. sounds like alot but once you know the basics it really isnt. so yeah read all you can and talk to others on this site and they will start you off right. good luck and welcome to your new obsession. :thumb:


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## Inspiire (Jun 1, 2009)

I thought I included tank size. It is a 44G.

16" wide, 20" tall, 31" long. It is taller than most, and not as long.

I'm thinking about going with the yellow Cichlids in the "assorted" tank at the pet store. From browsing, I think they are called Yellow Labs? Or I may go with the blue ones. I don't know the species of either, I know there is brown, blue, and yellow fish in the tank.

Which either I go with, I'm going to start with 4 small fish of the same kind. I would like more fish and a wide variety, but I want atleast two pairs. I also don't want to overcrowd them and have unnecessary aggression.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

If they are mbuna (like the yellow labs) they aren't "pairing" fish but harem breeders. One male needs 3-4 females to breed with. If you only have one female with a male, chances are he'll likely kill her from to much attention.


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## Inspiire (Jun 1, 2009)

Well, I'm not really wanting the fish to breed, but it doesn't matter to me.

If they are mixed in the tank at the store, will they mix in my tank? Do I just pick one kind, or should I get different kinds?


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## kodyboy (Dec 9, 2007)

that sized tank is really not that suited to africans, but a few species can work:
shell dwellers: nice little fish, occelatus are my favorite. 
Saulosi: beautiful blue barred males and yellow females. 8 should work in your tank. 
Yellow labs: although not ideal, they really do better in a 55 or larger, six should do fine in your tank. This is the only "regular" mbuna/african I would put in a 44. 
A pair of brichardi complex (neolamprologus brichardi, helianthus, dafodili etc.) would make a cool colony in a 44.
I would get juveniles and grow them up


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## Inspiire (Jun 1, 2009)

The main concern is I don't have a wide variety of fish. I have the same selection anywhere I go.

In every tank there is always three different looking cichlids. 1) A yellow fish, 2) A blue fish with darker stripes, 3) A brown colored fish.

I'm assuming the yellow cichlids I see are Yellow Labs. I'm not sure though. Since you said "Saulosi: beautiful blue barred males and yellow females. 8 should work in your tank." I'm wondering if the yellow fish I'm seeing are the females, and the blue fish I'm seeing are the males and they are really the same species.

And, I just thought of this. My tank had a filter system that took up a whole corner in it. It had a complicated system with two different filters/pumps. One side was for salt water, the other was for running fresh water. I took that system out, and replaced it with a decorative driftwood style piece that has a filter inside. So, maybe my tank is really approaching 50G, or maybe the 44G included the filter system. I always thought it was a weird number for a tank, 44G. Why not just 50G? The filter system took up a big chunk of space and went from the bottom to the top of the tank.


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## Inspiire (Jun 1, 2009)

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbvi ... chlids.jpg

My limited selection includes cichlids that look like this. There is no cichlid that is the orange color though. Just the yellow and the blue stripped.


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## Inspiire (Jun 1, 2009)

I went to Red Lobster last night for dinner and they have two giant triangular tanks filled with all kinds of different cichlids. Pretty cool to watch them.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Inspiire said:


> The main concern is I don't have a wide variety of fish. I have the same selection anywhere I go.
> 
> In every tank there is always three different looking cichlids. 1) A yellow fish, 2) A blue fish with darker stripes, 3) A brown colored fish.


You're most likely seeing Yellow labs, demasoni and Rusties. That's a wild guess, of course. Less risky is predicting that none of the fish in these mixed tanks are of high quality.

And I doubt any of them are saulosi.
Pseudotropheus saulosi do in fact have blue barred males and all yellow females:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1
A 1m/3f or 1m/4f ratio is best. They are born yellow and the males turn blue as they mature, but it's not that simple. Sub dominant males may not colour up and I have read that hyper dominant females may turn blue (true? I don't know) I have 12 in a 38 gallon and it's looking like I have 6 of each. With ample rock work you could do a dozen as well.

My advice would be to find a local fish club and see what you can find at an auction, or through the Trading Post. You'll get better fish for less money than the LFS alterative:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tradingpost/

If you have cash lying around (don't we all?) I would order online from one of the site's high-rated sponsors:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/reviews/retailer_index.php


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## xalow (May 10, 2007)

I think it is more likely that the blue fish with dark stripes is this: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=798

They are in the link you put up.

Don't let the fist picture fool you, the juveniles and young are blue with dark blue stripes.

If they are that fish and not demasoni as suggested earlier, do not buy them as they are very aggressive


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## remm (Apr 6, 2009)

You are definitely seeing kenyi as posted earlier. They are definitely a very aggressive fish. The brown ones you speak of might be oscars? *** never seen a brown fish in a mixed african tank. Usually it is all kenyi and labs in that.

You would be much happier if you found somewhere local selling a wider variety of african cichlids. The kenyi dont really show the true personalities of african cichlids.


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## Camaro4Me (Mar 27, 2009)

Sadly, I work in a 'pet store' that sells "mixed" cichlids as you describe, and as your photo link shows.

To help - consider:

Doesn't matter how they act now, as they are small, and all babies get along well - it's not until our teens (ie sex hormones) that anyone/anything starts picking fights. - same with fish - they will get hormonal and kill each other later over territory and/or girls.

As mentioned, getting them as children that grow up together will help, to a degree, depending on breeds.

You don't have the floor space in the tank for many fish (hidey holes don't matter as much as overall real estate). Like us - maybe you can cramm 1500 of us into a large apartment complex on 5 acres of land - we have lots of hidet holes (ie our apartments), but it doesn't mean we don't still feel cramped. I wouldn't go for more than 6 total fish of these "mixed" kind.

To make things easy for now....

Pick a few of the yellow ones - they are more than likely the Yellow Labs everyone describes.

Stay away from anything that is bluish colored and has vertical stripes (as in your pic link) - those are very agressive.

Bluish colored with horizontal stripes are usually less aggessive and will therefore usually get along with the yellow ones - these are usually Maingano or Johanni.

If you come across those orange ones in your link pic, they are most likely OK with the yellow ones and bluish with horizontal striped ones - the orange ones are Red Zebras. There are also orange with black blotches - these are Red or Orange Blotch Zebras, and will do fine.

Also look for pearl colored with yellow upper and lower funs - they are Perlmutt and would be fine as well. Or a really light blue with black stripes along the top & bottom fins from almost head to tail - they are Socolofi and generally more mild.

Ask the store what days they receive new fish - most places order weekly, receive on the same day each week, and therefore you'll know a time/date to get the newest lot to choose from ( they may get Red Zebras, but only ever get 1-2 which are sold fast since they are pretty red/orange colored).

Here are links to various pics of what generally comes in a "mixed" tank that would tend to live together:

Yellow Labs: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=713
Maingano: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=756
Johanni: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=760
Red Zebra: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1730
Red Zebra Blotch: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=2316
Perlmutt: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=741
Socolofi: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=919

Tried to use "layman's' terms as best as I could - hope that helps.

You pros out there - speak up if I'm dead wrong - but don't rag me for the attempt to simplify a bit :fish:


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## Inspiire (Jun 1, 2009)

So, stay away from verticle stripes on the blues.

I'm going to try to take a picture of the tank with the assorted cichlids in there, and then let you guys identify them for me, and give advice on what is best.

It's confusing sometimes because males=blue, yellow=females, some arent gender/color specific, sometimes they don't like the pictures if they are babies, etc.

From the options given, these are the ones that I think are in the tank available to me:

Yellow Labs: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=713

Socolofi: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=919

I'm not sure on the last one, but I really thought they had some verticle, very faint stripes on them.

*BIG* thanks to Camaro4Me on keeping it simple buy still giving lots of information!


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## Inspiire (Jun 1, 2009)

GREAT news!

I located another LFS that carries a huge selection of Cichlids!

They are apparently the ones that set up tanks in public places. For instance, there is a HUGE tank in the hopsital that has about 45-50 Cichlids in it.

They also carry Central American Cichilds, Discus, Tetras, Plecos, African Cichlids and Koi.

These are the African Cichlids they have for sale:

-Albino Red Eureka Peacock

-Bi-Color 500 Peacock

-Electric Blue Haplochromis

-Venustus (Nimbochromis)

-Solid Yellow Labidochromis

-Frontosa (Cyphotilapia)

-Dimidiochromis compressiceps

-Aulonocara jacobfreiberqi

-Aulonocara lwanda

-Sunshine Peacock (Aulonocara Baenschi)

-Taiwan Reef

-Ruby Red Peacock

-Ruti Island (Pundamilia nyereri)

-Labeotropheus fuelleborni

-Makobe Island

-Ngara Flametail Peacock

-Demasoni

-Red Empress

The "Solid Yellow" would be the Yellow Labs I'm looking for, right? It kind of bums me that these don't have the beautiful black stripes running down the fins. I don't know what is on this list that would coexist with them. Also, the Yellow Labs will do okay in about any kind of water so that is a major plus. And remember, my tank is only a 44G.

These are my options:

4 Yellow Labs with nothing else.

4 Yellow Labs with 2 others of a different species.

I don't want to overcrowd my tank, and I don't want any unnecessary violance.

These are my buying options:

Buy at option #1, which sales Electric Yellows in three different sizes, and if you buy a fish on Sunday, you get one free. I'll have to call to get prices on each size.

Buy at option number two, which sales Electric Yellows in two different sizes. 2-3" for $7 each, or 4"+ for $9.

Option #2 also sales Saltwater fish and has a selection of cichlids listed above, and I feel like they have better knowledge of the fish. But, the Electric Yellows there do not have the black stripes.

Option #1 gives 1 away when you buy 1 on Sunday. I'll have to ask exactly how that works. They also sell them in a very small size 1.5-2". I do believe that these Electric Yellows have the black stripes.

Suggestions?


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

"Solid Yellow Labidochromis" would be a hybrid, usually a cross with Red Zebras (Metriaclima estherae).
The experience with hybrids can range from "great" if you're happy with them and you never plan on distributing them or their offspring as anything other than hybrids, to "why are my fish killing each other?" if the aggressive side of your hybrids comes to the fore.

Pure Yellow labs (which can be a bit hard to find) are on the low-side of the aggression scale; multiple males can often get along together, which is why most posters will tell you that 4 to 6 Yellow labs can work in a 44 with lots of rock work. This is less true with Red Zebras, or most other Mbuna for that matter.

I would still steer you towards a single species tank. Either 4-6 pure Yellow labs or 4 of the "Solid yellow labs" if you like them (knowing their behavior will be somewhat hard to predict.)

I might think you could do a dozen demasoni as a third option - but be aware that demasoni are very hard on each other, and you can almost guarantee some deaths and replacements as they find their equilibrium.
But stunning fish, and worth it.
A poster named DJRansome, I believe, has a lot of experience and opinions on demasoni. His opinion would count more than mine.

kevin


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## Camaro4Me (Mar 27, 2009)

Inspiire said:


> I'm not sure on the last one, but I really thought they had some verticle, very faint stripes on them.


Hey - Sorry :? I did oversimplify a tad!

The Socolofi do have very faint vertical stripes, but again they are usually very faint (as opposed to the Kenyi that have very pronounced vertical stripes).

But the Socolofi are a good choice for adding some different color with the labs.



Inspiire said:


> They also carry Central American Cichilds, Discus, Tetras, Plecos, African Cichlids and Koi.


You'll want to stick with either Africans or South/Central Americans - it's very hard to mix SA/CA with Africans.

And within the Africans, you'll want to stick within the same region (ie same lake). Lake Victorians don't mix well with Lake Malawi, etc. The Labs, Socolofis, Zebras, etc. that I mentioned are all Lake Malawi fish (called Mbunas). Each region has different structures, different water chemistry, etc. - so it's best to stick with fish from one area.

Overcrowding (to a degree) can help reduce aggression (sometimes) - think of it as there being 2 members of 4 different gangs on the same street corner - every stays chilled out when they don't have 20 friends to back up them up! You just need the fitration to handle the slight bio overload that slight overcrowding can cause.

Good luck - let us know what you choose!


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## josmoloco (Aug 23, 2008)

I would do

1m yellow lab
5f yellow lab (the pure kind)

and a trio of smaller peacocks or just 1 male


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## Inspiire (Jun 1, 2009)

The LFS I found today that had a wider selection, didn't have the right Yellow Labs. They had just the plain yellow lab. I wanted the black stripes, because without them they remind me of a goldfish or something. The black stripes make it look more exotic.

So, I went back to the original LFS. I reviewed the tanks again. I thought they just had assorted cichlids, but they too carry a nice selection.

They actually had a tank labeled "Yellow Labs" which also had the black stripes. I talked to the owner and he explained that for them to be a true yellow lab they had to have the black stripes, size requirements, etc. He knew more than what I thought he did. He basically told me everything that the profile said about them.

He had the cichlids seperated into three tanks. He explained which would kill my Yellow Labs, which would 'most likely' get along with them, and which would. He suggested a school of 5-6 barbs, or some other type of bigger, schooling fish.

I believe I will start out with just Yellow Lab's, and see how they go.

I want to try just a pair first. It said Yellow Lab's will pretty much accept a wide variety of water, so I believe I'm good on that part.

If I get two yellow labs and they work out great, and decided to add two more, *what are the survivial chances of the two I add? *

I know they get territorial, but Yellow Labs are supposed to be pretty calm, so I don't think they will attack my new fish. Suggestions?


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## xalow (May 10, 2007)

Dewdrop said:


> If they are mbuna (like the yellow labs) they aren't "pairing" fish but harem breeders. One male needs 3-4 females to breed with. If you only have one female with a male, chances are he'll likely kill her from to much attention.


If you have only two they will be worse off until you added the second two, you are much better off getting all four at once as long as the tank is cycled. Tiger barbs should work with yellow labs.

When adding fish that are more aggressive it is always better to add more than one at a time so that the other fish don't all pick on the new guy.


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