# Rainbowfish Compatibility with Malawian Cichlids



## Glacier47

Just curious if a school of Boesemani Rainbowfish would be alright in a 55 G cichlid tank, with mildly aggressive species.

Potential Stocking List:
5x Synodontis nigriventris
5x Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos
5x Labidochromis caeruleus
6x Boesemani Rainbowfish

Potential Order of Addition
Rainbowfish and catfish
Labidochromis
Pseudotropheus

Tank specs
dKH of 9
dGH of 12
pH of 7.8
48 X 13 X 20


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## noki

They can be fine, will largely be ignored and act like dithers which is a good thing. Rainbow fish have their own pecking order games, just like cichlids so they maybe sort of understand each other, and Rainbow fish do not care about the rocks/substrate which avoids conflict. Except I would not call the Cyaneorhabdos all that mild, they can be rather annoying to other fish when over 3".

There is no reason for much aggression beyond the token posturing toward the non cichlids, but Mbuna can stress out other fish with their constant attitude.

I would start with juvenile Mbuna, with bigger Rainbowfishand all will probably be okay.


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## DJRansome

I'd do more females of the maingano due to their aggression. And I would choose another Synodontis...the nigriventris is riverine and the Rift Lake Synodontis are likely to be more comfortable in your tank given parameters and tank mates.


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## Glacier47

I will be getting juveniles for all fish involved; Cichlids will be 1.5 inches, and rainbowfish the same, maybe 2 inches. I also plan to stock in stages, from least to most aggressive.

How many female maingano do I need? I'm just about at the maximum stocking limit of the tank, don't think I can add too many more.

Where can I find Synodontis lucipinnis or where do you all get them? The only place I found them has 2-3 day shipping, do not an option unless that actually is an alright way to ship them.


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## DJRansome

I like 1m:7f for maingano. PM sent on source for lucipinnis, and all your fish for that matter.


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## Glacier47

DJRansome said:


> I like 1m:7f for maingano. PM sent on source for lucipinnis, and all your fish for that matter.


So can my tank (filtered by marineland 350 and sun sun hw 304b) withstand this bioload? 8 maingano, 5 yellow labs, 6 rainbows and 5 lucipinnis seems like quite a lot for a 55 gallon.

Also, is my stocking order alright to implement?


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## Glacier47

noki said:


> They can be fine, will largely be ignored and act like dithers which is a good thing. Rainbow fish have their own pecking order games, just like cichlids so they maybe sort of understand each other, and Rainbow fish do not care about the rocks/substrate which avoids conflict. Except I would not call the Cyaneorhabdos all that mild, they can be rather annoying to other fish when over 3".
> 
> There is no reason for much aggression beyond the token posturing toward the non cichlids, but Mbuna can stress out other fish with their constant attitude.
> 
> I would start with juvenile Mbuna, with bigger Rainbowfishand all will probably be okay.


Bigger rainbowfish? Do you mean a different species altogether, or should I try and get the Boesemani bigger? The site I plan to get them from lists them at approximately 1.5 inches. The maingano will be between 1-1.5 inches when they arrive. As I alluded to earlier, I plan to add the maingano last, to counteract their aggression.


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## DJRansome

I can't answer about bioload since I don't keep rainbows. I would not do maingano in a 55G anyway, but it works for some.


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## noki

Glacier47 said:


> noki said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can be fine, will largely be ignored and act like dithers which is a good thing. Rainbow fish have their own pecking order games, just like cichlids so they maybe sort of understand each other, and Rainbow fish do not care about the rocks/substrate which avoids conflict. Except I would not call the Cyaneorhabdos all that mild, they can be rather annoying to other fish when over 3".
> 
> There is no reason for much aggression beyond the token posturing toward the non cichlids, but Mbuna can stress out other fish with their constant attitude.
> 
> I would start with juvenile Mbuna, with bigger Rainbowfishand all will probably be okay.
> 
> 
> 
> Bigger rainbowfish? Do you mean a different species altogether, or should I try and get the Boesemani bigger? The site I plan to get them from lists them at approximately 1.5 inches. The maingano will be between 1-1.5 inches when they arrive. As I alluded to earlier, I plan to add the maingano last, to counteract their aggression.
Click to expand...

Just mean the Rainbowfish should not start out smaller in size than the cichlids, since that might stress or panic them if put in with larger Mbuna. Probably need more than 6 Rainbows also, to make a nice school. Then you are worrying about too many fish it seems. Also, would imply once more in the thread that Maingano are not exactly mellow. Since it is a 55g, you might best choose between the Maingano and Rainbows and go from there.


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## Glacier47

Okay, think I've got a winner (fingers crossed). What if I substitute the maingano with socolofi?

My stock would be

6x Boesemani Rainbowfish
5x Yellow Lab 
5x Socolofi
4x Synodontis lucipinnis (is 4 okay, or is 5 really a minimum)

Also, how many should I add at one time? My tank has only been up a week, but with Seachem Stability and a seeded filter.


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## PfunMo

How many to add at once can get down to the personal situation. Are these to be shipped so that shipping costs need to be in the question/ Or if they are picked up local, I advise adding just a few and then add more as the tank adjusts. Keep in mind that the tank is ready for what it is supporting now and can adjust to small changes pretty quickly so that you don't get into doing massive water changes and all the trauma that spikes can cause. 
Several ways to deal with added bio-load but I like adding fish slower. You can do some good if you stop feeding a few days before the fish are added and then not feed for a couple days after. This reduces the total change in load a fair amount and certainly does not "starve" the fish. Reduced load, more water changes or adding fish slower are all different combos that work.


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## Glacier47

PfunMo said:


> How many to add at once can get down to the personal situation. Are these to be shipped so that shipping costs need to be in the question/ Or if they are picked up local, I advise adding just a few and then add more as the tank adjusts. Keep in mind that the tank is ready for what it is supporting now and can adjust to small changes pretty quickly so that you don't get into doing massive water changes and all the trauma that spikes can cause.
> Several ways to deal with added bio-load but I like adding fish slower. You can do some good if you stop feeding a few days before the fish are added and then not feed for a couple days after. This reduces the total change in load a fair amount and certainly does not "starve" the fish. Reduced load, more water changes or adding fish slower are all different combos that work.


These will all be shipped from an online retailer. On that note, is 2 day shipping okay for fish, or should I she'll out the extra 30 for them? They say that they quarantine, fast, and supply the fish with oxygen prior to and during shipping.

My idea was to add 1-2 groups or species at a time, possibly from least to most valuable or aggressive:
Synodontis catfish and Rainbow fish
Yellow labs
Pseudotropheus socolofi (Will these work? Please tell me)


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## DJRansome

Socolofi will work with the labs...no idea about the rainbows.

I would choose another vendor.


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## Glacier47

DJRansome said:


> Socolofi will work with the labs...no idea about the rainbows.
> 
> I would choose another vendor.


Because of the shipping, or the process they use to ship? I looked at and appreciate the vendor you referred me to, but they seemed a little steep on the shipping.

I plan to order from either <vendor name removed>. I heard especially good things about the former, it's just that their default is 2 to 3 day shipping (free). Overnight is an option, it's just 30 more for the entire order.

Glad to hear about the socolofi. 5 (1 m to 4 f) is okay?


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## Glacier47

How about white tail acei instead of the socolofi? Would that give me a better chance at compatibility with the rainbowfish? I have heard acei are a little big for a 55, but also about the same size as socolofi. The rainbowfish will top out at about 4 inches, I believe.


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## thornsja19

Just a chime in, I've used <vendor name removed> multiple times. Lucipinnis and Red Cherry Shrimp, multiple plants. Everything came in fine. Haven't ordered cichlids yet but I've heard nothing but good things. Plus Lucipinnis and Red Cherry Shrimp are pretty delicate so if they came in fine I couldn't see cichlids being a problem. Also, They're in Florida so you being in Texas is a way shorter ship than to me in Chicago


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## thornsja19

And you're better off with the Socolofi instead of the Acei. Similar size yes, but the Acei tend to enjoy more open swimming areas than a 55g can provide so they bounce off the sides a lot. Socolofi stick to the rocks more


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## noki

I like that the White Tailed Acei are mellow and more schooling, less territorial, would make a more peaceful tank. Be aware of the fish bio load thou.

I don't think cichlids should be shipped a way that will take over 24 hours, not the way they usually ship them, and it is summer in Texas! Also, be aware that shipping routes may be effected by the flooding disasters, even if you are far enough away.


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## Glacier47

noki said:


> I like that the White Tailed Acei are mellow and more schooling, less territorial, would make a more peaceful tank. Be aware of the fish bio load thou.
> 
> I don't think cichlids should be shipped a way that will take over 24 hours, not the way they usually ship them, and it is summer in Texas! Also, be aware that shipping routes may be effected by the flooding disasters, even if you are far enough away.


Thanks for the concern. I'm up in DFW, so I'll be fairly safe. Just rain. Don't plan on using <vendor name removed> for the Cichlids anymore, only the rainbowfish. I'll use <vendor name removed> for the Synodontis Lucipinnis, and <vendor name removed> for the Cichlids. Both have standard overnight once you meet their minimum orders. <vendor name removed> will even sex the fish, but they'll be 3-5 bucks more per fish. Will do this for the socolofi, but not sure if the conspecific aggression with the yellows will be bad enough to warrant the extra expense.


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## DJRansome

I agree with noki...overnight express is the longest I would want fish in the bags...and the best vendors prefer you pick them up at the airport when the plane lands.

Also it may not be possible to reliably sex fish at the size they are when usually sold, so be wary of a vendor that promises to sex young fish.


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## Glacier47

Okay, just ordered 6 yellow labs and 6 boesemani rainbowfish from live aquaria with overnight express. Will see how they do. How long should I wait before I add the next batch (catfish and socolofi)?


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## Old Newbie

Glacier47 said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> 
> Socolofi will work with the labs...no idea about the rainbows.
> 
> I would choose another vendor.
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the shipping, or the process they use to ship? I looked at and appreciate the vendor you referred me to, but they seemed a little steep on the shipping.
> 
> I plan to order from either <vendor name removed>. I heard especially good things about the former, it's just that their default is 2 to 3 day shipping (free). Overnight is an option, it's just 30 more for the entire order.
> 
> Glad to hear about the socolofi. 5 (1 m to 4 f) is okay?
Click to expand...

Pay for the over night shipping; 2 to 3 days is risky. I recently had 14 Demasoni shipped using overnight instead of the 2 to 3 day (probably from the same breeder you are considering). They arrived in excellent condition, packaged individually due to the Demasoni sometimes being intolerant of each other. They were each in a small bag that were packaged 3 or 4 in another bag kind of making tubes of packaged fish, if that make sense. I don't think they would have made it 2 or 3 days though.


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## TNChris

I have rainbowfish tanks and African cichlid tanks....never thought to put them together. Rainbows are really fast fish so I don't think much would be able to bother them really.


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## Glacier47

Alright, got the fish in...all looks well. I noticed that the boesemani rainbowfish are not very colorful: they have a bit of yellow towards the tail, but no blue, nor green in the case of the females. How long will it be before they do begin to color up?


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## Glacier47

TNChris said:


> I have rainbowfish tanks and African cichlid tanks....never thought to put them together. Rainbows are really fast fish so I don't think much would be able to bother them really.


Well, somebody has to have tried it. Made sense to me. It'll be a few weeks, but do you think that the 5 socolofi would be okay with them, or should I opt for a cobalt blue zebra? I am out of good monomorphic blue cichlid species beyond that, unless someone else knows of one.


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## pcdiddy

Glacier47 said:


> Alright, got the fish in...all looks well. I noticed that the boesemani rainbowfish are not very colorful: they have a bit of yellow towards the tail, but no blue, nor green in the case of the females. How long will it be before they do begin to color up?


My rainbow fish took several months to start showing good color. They are in a tank with tetras and a few rams.


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## Glacier47

pcdiddy said:


> Glacier47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, got the fish in...all looks well. I noticed that the boesemani rainbowfish are not very colorful: they have a bit of yellow towards the tail, but no blue, nor green in the case of the females. How long will it be before they do begin to color up?
> 
> 
> 
> My rainbow fish took several months to start showing good color. They are in a tank with tetras and a few rams.
Click to expand...

Alright. I suppose they'll do so with food food...I will be feeding my cichlids NLS Cichlid formulation, will that be fine with the rainbows?


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## pcdiddy

Glacier47 said:


> pcdiddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glacier47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, got the fish in...all looks well. I noticed that the boesemani rainbowfish are not very colorful: they have a bit of yellow towards the tail, but no blue, nor green in the case of the females. How long will it be before they do begin to color up?
> 
> 
> 
> My rainbow fish took several months to start showing good color. They are in a tank with tetras and a few rams.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alright. I suppose they'll do so with food food...I will be feeding my cichlids NLS Cichlid formulation, will that be fine with the rainbows?
Click to expand...

My rainbows haven't turned down anything. They are hogs of that tank. I had to start feeding the rams sinking shrimp wafers so the rainbows couldn't gobble right up.


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## BC in SK

I hope the OP gives updates on how this turns out over the next few years.
Many threads in the past mention Australian rainbow fish with Malawi and aggressive cichlids...though there is no real threads to document it nor a lot of details or specifics when it comes to exactly what they have been kept with and for how long.
Decided to try it out myself, and purchased 6 "Australian rainbow fish" in July. I suppose the particular species would matter, though pretty hard for me to determine exactly what they are, since the're not cichlids. (_Melanotarnia fluviatilis_?, _M. duboulayi_? or some other or hybrid mix?)
Having had giant danios over the past 4 years, that is the fish it's gonna be compared to. My decision to purchase these was to try something new, and was instead of purchasing another group of GD.
It's been less then 2 months but so far I would have to give them a huge thumbs down.
My 75 is my least rough tank. It would have been far more difficult to introduce them into my 90, 125 or 180. Yet my GD would have little problem being swapped out of any of these tanks and have even been confident and out going in tanks with CA cichlids that could eat them!
The "Australian rainbow fish" have received virtually no attention from the cichlids and yet, look to me, to be scared. Not conducive to survival, especially with mbuna. One is dead this morning and being chewed up. I guess I'll see how the remaining 5 will do. If they don't end up doing any better, I might have to move them to the 29 gal. with the really young cichlids!


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## Glacier47

BC in SK said:


> I hope the OP gives updates on how this turns out over the next few years.
> Many threads in the past mention Australian rainbow fish with Malawi and aggressive cichlids...though there is no real threads to document it nor a lot of details or specifics when it comes to exactly what they have been kept with and for how long.
> Decided to try it out myself, and purchased 6 "Australian rainbow fish" in July. I suppose the particular species would matter, though pretty hard for me to determine exactly what they are, since the're not cichlids. (_Melanotarnia fluviatilis_?, _M. duboulayi_? or some other or hybrid mix?)
> Having had giant danios over the past 4 years, that is the fish it's gonna be compared to. My decision to purchase these was to try something new, and was instead of purchasing another group of GD.
> It's been less then 2 months but so far I would have to give them a huge thumbs down.
> My 75 is my least rough tank. It would have been far more difficult to introduce them into my 90, 125 or 180. Yet my GD would have little problem being swapped out of any of these tanks and have even been confident and out going in tanks with CA cichlids that could eat them!
> The "Australian rainbow fish" have received virtually no attention from the cichlids and yet, look to me, to be scared. Not conducive to survival, especially with mbuna. One is dead this morning and being chewed up. I guess I'll see how the remaining 5 will do. If they don't end up doing any better, I might have to move them to the 29 gal. with the really young cichlids!


Sorry to hear about that...it's certainly a risk, I understand that. I have decided to go for the most passive setup possible, with Yellow-tail Acei, Labidochromis caeruleus, and the Boesemani Rainbowfish. The Rainbowfish have melded in well with the cichlids, and have no reservations as to mixing in with the cichlids in the swarm that results whenever I approach within 3 feet of the tank. Certainly hogs, as pcdiddy has said.

As to which Rainbowfish you have, you can post a picture, and I could probably identify it for you.


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## BC in SK

Glacier47 said:


> The Rainbowfish have melded in well with the cichlids, and have no reservations as to mixing in with the cichlids in the swarm that results whenever I approach within 3 feet of the tank.


Glad to here they are doing fine and thank you for giving an update.
I'm most interested to see how they do with large adult mbuna. How they do in a year, and in 2-3 years.
I started this about the same time as you, about 5 weeks before but there are some significant differences. I'm not doing as Noki suggests, starting with rainbowfish that are larger then the mbuna as my mbuna are adults already, though not full grown. Different species of rainbow, as well. Though from readings of previous threads, Bosemanis are one that is cited as having less of a chance of doing well (considered wussier and more timid then some other rainbows).


Glacier47 said:


> As to which Rainbowfish you have, you can post a picture, and I could probably identify it for you.


I don't currently have any pictures but i do have video from 6-7 weeks back, when the rainbows were a little more comfortable in the tank, and more actively swimming the tank:
















Shortly after these videos were shot, the giant danio was removed as he/she started to bully the rainbows excessively. About 3 weeks ago, the electric yellows were removed as I needed females to improve the sex ratios in some other tanks. The jewels very, very rarely interact with the rainbows. As the rainbows now hover in one smaller area on the upper left hand side and it's directly above the male demasoni's territory, he occasionally chases them off. The small CAE will also occasionally chase them, though neither is frequent at all. I think it's the general atmosphere of a cichlid tank that has made them apprehensive.


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## PfunMo

Since there is "some" question on the rainbow and mbuna, I like to swing things as far in my favor as practical. since ordering, does that mean you do have a wide range of fish available? 
If true and still open to suggestions on stock, I might lean toward going with the least aggressive that still looks good to your eye. Personal item, there for sure as what I like is not the same!! 
But I find the normal Pseudotropheus to be a bit more trouble and like to stay in the lesser trouble groups. The Placidochromis group has some really nice looking ( to me!) that tend to be little trouble. 
This is one popular guy that I like with yellow labs:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1204
They tend to leave the rocks to the labs and just cruise above the pile much of the time. 
So many choices, so little time???


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## BC in SK

Glacier47 said:


> As to which Rainbow fish you have, you can post a picture, and I could probably identify it for you.


I didn't realize, I guess I do have a few pictures from August 5th. Not that I really have a whole lot of faith in them being identified much beyond "common box store Australian rainbow fish".


http://imgur.com/bxcrbdi




http://imgur.com/CFo0SZk




http://imgur.com/M5AE0EV

As of this moment I'm not going to make any changes but probably will add another 4 to the group at some later time and see if that doesn't improve things. Moving them to the 29 gal. is last resort as a fall back plan. 
I would think it's consideration for an mbuna tank might be primarily for color (?). In my case, it's for a Jewel cichlid tank, that also has mbuna. In terms of performing the dither role, in this particular case, the mbuna are not quite cutting it. There is a need for something to swim actively close to the surface for the jewels to feel completely comfortable. Removing some of the GD caused the problem and introducing the rainbow fish initially solved it. Could have purchased more GD instead, and they wouldn't have had any problem being in this tank. I'll give it more time, but it may end up being more of a mistake(?).


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## BC in SK

I hope the OP will give some up dates, at least at some point. 
IMO does not mean much if it works fine initally with young juvies but rather the real question is how it works out as the mbuna grow and become larger adults. It is a fish that was suggested in a number of previous threads and at least partially a reason I tried it for myself.
I didn't mean to high jack the thread, but I will give an update. I didn't do as I said in the previous post and add another 4 but rather, I moved them out in October to the 29 gal. that housed 3 month old demasoni. They were doing fine until a couple weeks ago. Appeared to be scared again.....and now I am down to only 2. There considerably larger then the 7 month old demasoni but do not seem to be able to deal well with the general atmosphere of a cichlid tank.
They were replaced in the 75 gal. by a group of giant danios and now added a few gouramis. I just recently added a dwarf gourami :lol: . If it does OK in this tank, I think that really says something about how unsuitable these australian rainbows have been for a cichlid tank. My 75 gal. is my most peaceful cichlid tank (at least compared to my other 3 cichlid communities). But it still has a general atmosphere of a rough tank that requires confident fish. 
Of course there are many types of rainbows and starting with large adult rainbows and young cichlids could produce much different results. Only real conclusions i can make are about the suitability of box store common Australian Rainbowfish mixed with aggressive cichlids.


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## BC in SK

I was hoping the OP would give updates and I suppose it still could happen. One year now and no feedback on how the Australian Rainbows did with mbuna. 
It was advocated in threads from the past and still comes up now and then as a fish that some say has decent chance with mbuna. But there is zero documentation; no thread showing it at all.
I started this mix 6 weeks before the OP. I gave this mix a big fat F after only about 1 month. Maybe different results could be obtained if one started with 3-4 year old large adult rainbows, and small immature mbuna, but even that I have my doubts. I will give an update again, on my lone remaining Australian rainbow. 
I needed to make space for convict fry in my 29 gal. so I moved the young demasoni to the 125 gal. (they replaced an adult group that I gave away) and the 2 remaining rainbows went back to the 75 gal. They schooled with a group of 7 giant danios and seemed to do OK for some time. But the smaller male Australian rainbow was recently killed and the larger female has very chewed up fins. I don't think she will last too long now. My 75 gal. is my most mellow cichlid tank. For cichlids, it houses 1m: 4f demasoni and 1m: 3f neon jewel cichlid. If they can't make it in this tank.....they certainly would have done worse in any of my other cichlid communities. Now trying a dwarf gourami was just plain stupid. I've known they were docile for 40+ years so had never tried them. Live and learn. I have female pearl gourami, female blue and gold gourami in the tank and they did chase the dwarf gourami around. It's generally not recommended to stock dwarf gouramis with larger, more aggressive gouramis, let alone aggressive cichlids. Lasted about 3 months.
I've had giant danios since 2012. I was very skeptical of them at first, but they have proven themselves to do well with aggressive cichlids, including mbuna. IMO, Australian rainbows are not at all in the same league, as having decent chance of doing well in a tank with mbuna. No comparison. Not even close. I would tend to think Buenos Aires tetras or even tiger barbs stand better chance, though neither are likely to do as well as giant danios. But if your reason to stock them is solely for color, then maybe giant danios are not first choice as there are more colorful, small schooling fish. Usually mbuna do not require dithers, though occasionally there are tanks where all it takes is one cichlid to be scared and make the whole tank skittish. Under these circumstances, small schooling dithers can be of real benefit.


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## DJRansome

The Buenos aires tetras did not do well with mbuna for me long term.


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## BC in SK

DJRansome said:


> The Buenos aires tetras did not do well with mbuna for me long term.


That is no surprise to me. I'm not advocating them.
But to put things in perspective, my Australian rainbows didn't even cut it over the very short term.....never mind any long term period of time. 
They did fine with 3 month old demasoni; tiny fish they could have almost eaten had the demasoni been a little bit smaller. But with in about 4 months, they were back to cowaring in a small area, scared sh!tless , and that's with 7 month old demasoni that would not even be quite marketable size. Three Australian rainbows were killed off by the tiny mbuna!
I've had tiger barbs in the past, many times with aggressive cichlids, to know they would have done a lot better then that. Though they never last long term either and I wouldn't I recommend them. Never had Buenos aires tetras, though enough people have had some limited success keeping them with aggressive cichlids, that i really think it likely they would have done at least done a little better the my Australian rainbows have. Anyways, the fish I am really comparing them too is giant danios, and they stand in stark contrast, polar opposite, in terms how well they do with aggressive cichlids.


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