# Sand or gravel?



## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

I have a 60/65 gallon tank. 36x18.5x24. As of right now I have 1 bumblebee, 1 Demasoni & 1 pleco. Plan on adding more fish soon! My tank is fully cycled, my parameters are good and all that. But my question is..

Gravel or sand?

Should I keep the gravel or replace it with sand before adding new fish??



Is there a benefit of having one over the other? And if I went sand, should I but something to put under it to even out the weight?


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## oyster dog (Jul 2, 2013)

Sand (because cichlids like to dig), and I'd replace the plastic plants and figurines with rock, because your current configuration doesn't provide enough cover/hiding places.


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

oyster dog said:


> Sand (because cichlids like to dig), and I'd replace the plastic plants and figurines with rock, because your current configuration doesn't provide enough cover/hiding places.


I have a HUGE cichlid rock I am going to add when I get more fish!! I'm having a hard time finding almost grown yellow tail Aceis.. So when I'm able to get them they will all be babies! I figure that would be a good time to introduce the rock!! But being there is only 2 cichlids right now I think they are doing ok! For two supposedly aggressive fish they get along very well at the moment.



Some of the figurines supply oxygen into their water with bubble stones! I also have a 30 gallon I haven't set up yet. And won't until I have this one finished lol What I take out for the rock will help decorate that tank!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Since it is a 36" tank you may wish to look for dwarf mbuna (like the demasoni) rather than full-sized mbuna or even extra large mbuna like crabro and acei.

For mbuna (rock fish) the common advice is to fill the tank to the waterline with rocks.


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

You can't really tell from that pick but there are about 7-8 holes that go straight through and the a bunch that are caves..


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> Since it is a 36" tank you may wish to look for dwarf mbuna (like the demasoni) rather than full-sized mbuna or even extra large mbuna like crabro and acei.
> 
> For mbuna (rock fish) the common advice is to fill the tank to the waterline with rocks.


I don't plan on over stocking my tank. I'm only planning on 4-5 Aceis and then I'm done with this tank! Cichlids are messy and anymore than that would be gross trying to clean and I don't do gross lol


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

> I don't plan on over stocking my tank. I'm only planning on 4-5 Aceis


I hate to sound like one of those people that tell others what to stock in their own tanks, but you are planning way too big of fish in way too small a tank. Acei get to be 7" in length so even with only 4-5 Acei in there once they get to be adults that tank is gonna be way too small for them to live comfortable/healthy lives.


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

Steve C said:


> > I don't plan on over stocking my tank. I'm only planning on 4-5 Aceis
> 
> 
> I hate to sound like one of those people that tell others what to stock in their own tanks, but you are planning way too big of fish in way too small a tank. Acei get to be 7" in length so even with only 4-5 Acei in there once they get to be adults that tank is gonna be way too small for them to live comfortable/healthy lives.


It's a 60/65 gallon tank! I am new to this but I was under the impression the "rule of thumb" was 1 inch (as an adult) to every gallon of water?


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

The 1" per gallon rule does not apply to fish like cichlids due to aggression/territories that they set up in a tank.And honestly the 1" per gallon rule doesn't really work with ANY fish to be honest. It's a bad "rule" promoted by fish shops that causes nothing but trouble for new fish hobbyist. The most important measurement in a cichlid tank is the length because they chase each other lengthwise in the tank not vertical or front to back so you could have a 120 gallon tank but if your length is still only 36" then it's not gonna matter.

Like I said I'm not tryin to be one of "those people", but I'm just tryin to let you know ahead of time that the fish you want to put in a 36" tank is not going to be good so you don't end up learning the hard way is all.


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## B.Roberson (Nov 6, 2011)

Steve C said:


> The 1" per gallon rule does not apply to fish like cichlids due to aggression/territories that they set up in a tank.And honestly the 1" per gallon rule doesn't really work with ANY fish to be honest. It's a bad "rule" promoted by fish shops that causes nothing but trouble for new fish hobbyist. The most important measurement in a cichlid tank is the length because they chase each other lengthwise in the tank not vertical or front to back so you could have a 120 gallon tank but if your length is still only 36" then it's not gonna matter.
> 
> Like I said I'm not tryin to be one of "those people", but I'm just tryin to let you know ahead of time that the fish you want to put in a 36" tank is not going to be good so you don't end up learning the hard way is all.


i had yellow tail acei in my 4 ft 75 gal and they were about 4" then, they started to get aggressive. i went another route.my 2 pennies


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

I do love my Demasoni! But it's a male and they are so much prettier than girls.. But males are very aggressive towards other males and I don't really want babies.. So idk.. Does anyone know about how big Rustys get??


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

I was original trying to do an all female tank but my Demsaoni ended up being male.. Lol It was little when we got it and it's so hard to tell until the reach young adult to tell! At least I think it's male! It could be female but being the only one in there it's color is very vibrant.


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

> Does anyone know about how big Rustys get


About 4" max. I have a trio in my 55g 4ft mbuna tank. Picked them up about 2 weeks ago and they are probably the most mellow mbuna I have owned to date. A small group of them in your tank would probably work very well since they max out at about 3.5-4" and are very calm and laid back for a mbuna.


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

Steve C said:


> > Does anyone know about how big Rustys get
> 
> 
> About 4" max. I have a trio in my 55g 4ft mbuna tank. Picked them up about 2 weeks ago and they are probably the most mellow mbuna I have owned to date. A small group of them in your tank would probably work very well since they max out at about 3.5-4" and are very calm and laid back for a mbuna.


Thanks! Where did you get yours? Was it a petsmart or petco kind of place or a mom and pop place? I've thought about livefishdirect.com but it's not really worth the 35 shipping unless you plan on buying A LOT!


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## Michael_S (Aug 18, 2013)

Please don't go to Petco or Petsmart. Maybe a good LFS, but mine is awful so I never go. I buy online nowadays.


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

Michael_S said:


> Please don't go to Petco or Petsmart. Maybe a good LFS, but mine is awful so I never go. I buy online nowadays.


I got my bumblebee and my demasoni at petsmart. My demasoni came down with ich but I don't think I bought it sick! I'm new to fish keeping, and apparently I didn't cycle my tank very well, and when I had some really high nitrate & nitrite readings it got sick. But all is good now! They are both well, happy & very active! Eating well and all my #s are in check! But since all that happened I have gotten a 10 gallon to QT before adding them to my big tank! I really like the Rustys but I am having a hard time finding some! Even through Livefishdirect.com But that might be because I'm being picky and trying to get females since I'm only buying a few...


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## Michael_S (Aug 18, 2013)

There are other online places to buy fish. I could send you a PM if you'd like.


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

Michael_S said:


> There are other online places to buy fish. I could send you a PM if you'd like.


Please?!? That would be great! Thanks.


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## B.Roberson (Nov 6, 2011)

i also have "Rusty" in my 75. they are also beautiful fish. :dancing:

rusty, yell labs,afra cobue, blue cobalts..


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

B.Roberson said:


> i also have "Rusty" in my 75. they are also beautiful fish. :dancing:
> 
> rusty, yell labs,afra cobue, blue cobalts..


Lol I think they are very pretty too!!


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

Ok.. Everyone has voted sand! So now my question is... When I go to switch the gravel for sand, is it going to mess up my biological filtration? If so, what do I do to keep from having to re cycle my tank?


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Check the library there is an article that covers how to do it. The trick will be to not do it all at once, perhaps remove 25% of your gravel each week. Until its all removed (the fish will be fine with no décor while you do this..) and then add the sand after rinsing it very well.

WHats you filtration?


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

skurj said:


> Check the library there is an article that covers how to do it. The trick will be to not do it all at once, perhaps remove 25% of your gravel each week. Until its all removed (the fish will be fine with no décor while you do this..) and then add the sand after rinsing it very well.
> 
> WHats you filtration?


I have the emperors double bio wheel filtration and an under gravel filter (which I will be taking out when I do the sand). I have a 30 gallon tank I was thinking about doing as a guppy tank and when I take the gravel out of my 65 I was going to put it in my 30 to help with the cycle for that tank since I know I have good bacteria built up in that already!

I guess what I could do is take the gravel, put it in my 30 gallon tank, fill my 30 gallon tank with the water from my 65 gallon tank and put my double bio wheel filter on 30 gallon while cleaning out my 65 and doing the sand. I'm still worried about their biological filtration though! Should I just house them in the 30 until the Sand settles and then maybe just doing a whole fishless cycle on the 65?

I guess that wouldn't really work because as of right now I only have the 1 filter that's big enough for either tank! Sorry for the rambling.. I'm new to all this so I'm kinda clueless! That's why I have so many posts on dif topics!!


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## B.Roberson (Nov 6, 2011)

audibell said:


> I guess what I could do is take the gravel, put it in my 30 gallon tank, fill my 30 gallon tank with the water from my 65 gallon tank and put my double bio wheel filter on 30 gallon while cleaning out my 65 and doing the sand. I'm still worried about their biological filtration though! Should I just house them in the 30 until the Sand settles and then maybe just doing a whole fishless cycle on the 65?


On my current 75. Which had FIRST and ug filter,I switched to sand. 
Just very thoroughly vacuum the gravel,stir it up and vacuum again.an hour or two later. take it all out. SLOWLY with a clean dustpan. OH fish in a big plastic container with water from tank and ALL deco., Rocks 'etc. throw yur heater in it if u feel comfortable .should be fine for quite a few hours.
Keep your filters media wet!!in tank water. do NOT rinse or change ANY media. Pads. etc for a week before or after. 
after all gravel out, put {cleaned} sand in very slowly.Use a small bowl. let it settle. add media back.fill with new treated water and filters. get em up and running. add fish. :fish:


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

Yea!! I know for a fact that I'm getting several gift cards to Petsmart for Christmas.. Which means I will be switching to sand soon! I'm getting excited! And I have a 10 and 30 gallon tank that will be very useful and handy for this process and make it a lot less stressful on the fish!! Once it's finished I will take pictures and show everyone, thank you everyone for all of your advice and opinions!!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The best place to buy sand may not be Petsmart, or any other fish store.


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> The best place to buy sand may not be Petsmart, or any other fish store.


Where would you suggest then?


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## Michael_S (Aug 18, 2013)

Pool filter sand is sold at pool supply stores. At some hardware stores you can find pool filter sand.


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

Michael_S said:


> Pool filter sand is sold at pool supply stores. At some hardware stores you can find pool filter sand.


Do they have it colored? I was hoping for a black sand!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No for black you have to go to the fish store. Some people use blasting sand, but I went with Flourite.


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

Tractor Supply Co is a good place to get black sand cheap. 50lb back of Black Diamond blasting sand is about $7 per bag.


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> No for black you have to go to the fish store. Some people use blasting sand, but I went with Flourite.


Which sand is it that brings your ph up?


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

Steve C said:


> Tractor Supply Co is a good place to get black sand cheap. 50lb back of Black Diamond blasting sand is about $7 per bag.


That's not bad at all!! I've been waiting to do the sand because I know at the pet stores it's kind of expensive.. Hmmm.. I might just have to do that and then I can use my cards for new fish or a new filter & glass top so I can start up this 30 gallon tank!


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## audibell (Oct 1, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> No for black you have to go to the fish store. Some people use blasting sand, but I went with Flourite.


 Is fluorite tan colored sand? Will it affect my pH or anything?? I was really hoping for black sand because we have black gravel and it makes everything pop color wise!!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Flourite comes in black sand as well as brown gravel and black gravel. It's very fine though...not a large grain like PFS.


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