# Why am I doing weekly water changes?



## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

Not sure right now. I started doing them after reading a lot of stuff on the net (mainly from this site). Seems like everyone does 25-50% water changes weekly.

I've got around 20 fish in my tank and the last couple weeks I've started checking my ammonia/nitrate/ph readings. I'm doing at least 25% changes, but when I'm doing it I'm reading 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate, and 8.0 PH...perfect conditions.

Should I be wasting my time doing water changes if my water parameters are completely perfect?? opcorn:


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

I may be wrong, but unless it is a heavily planted tank, I don't see how you can have zero nitrates. And you didn't mention nitrites. Ammonia into nitrites and then nitrites into nitrates. Also contributing to nitrates are uneaten food. Nitrates are removed by water changes.

That being said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the air in my house. But it sure is nice when I can open the windows and let some fresh air in.


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## CSchmidt (Apr 15, 2004)

Just let a water change go a couple of weeks and see where it gets you. It gets you a lot of dead fish. Water quality is the best thing you can do for your fish. Don't let them slide. Believe me I know.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

IDK. I went back and looked at my nitrate test (just got it...never tested for it before recently) I accidently got one that is marked saltwater. The ammonia says freshwater/saltwater on it.

My boss has a 75g and he said I was crazy doing that many water changes. He said he does a water change like once every 4-6 months. :-?


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Your boss is insane.


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## Baller Joe (Jan 28, 2009)

You should definately do water changes. Think of it like a lake in nature. There is constantly water coming in from a river and going out from a river. The end result of the nitrogen cycle is nitrate. Over time they can build up and cause problems. I've never heard of them killing fish but too many can stunt the growth. You will also notice that the fish love good fresh water. Mine all swim over as the new water comes in and get all happy like a puppy.

Baller


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## herny (Nov 30, 2007)

how about this guy that knows every thing dont do a water change for a month and see how it goes


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## blackgloves (Oct 17, 2005)

Your boss shouldn't be your boss if hes telling you that

hope this helps


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## 55gal (Jan 19, 2009)

If you want healthy fish do water changes. I know that if your using buckets to change your water it can be a real pain. I would look into making or buying a Python W/C. it will make your life a lot easier and your fish a lot happier. Lack of water changes can cause major problems in a tank, make a schedule and stick to it.
Good Luck opcorn:


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

The folks that get away with fewer water changes often have lots of plants that take up nitrate. I keep some plants but I still do water changes.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/water_changes.php



> # Phosphates, pheromones and other chemicals can build up between water changes.
> 
> # Minerals and trace elements are depleted over time, which can result in a GH drop.
> 
> ...


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

I'm gonna go get a freshwater nitrate kit and do some testing tommorow evening.

IDK why he is telling me that. He's had fish for a long time.

He actually got divorced and left his tank at his house. He had an african (red zebra) and a pleco in the tank. It was in there for a couple years when Gustav hit. When it hit that house got flooded and his wife told him to come get the tank. When we got there the tank was solid green and the water looked like bayou water. Fish were still alive. I took both of them, pleco is fine, but the zebra got killed by my cichlids. It had been almost 3 years I think since he left the house.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

I'm not saying that I know anything or nothing like that either. I'm just wondering why I do it if all my water is within parameters and fine. That's all I'm asking...if it will have some detremental effect on my fish.


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## herny (Nov 30, 2007)

here you go man this is for you http://maglifeusa.com/


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think you need to check your water parameters with that freshwater nitrate kit before you can be sure your parameters are good. If you still get zero nitrates and your plant is not planted, then I'd be worried about the health of your biofilter. If they are producing nitrates...where is it going???

Probably a person with a solid green tank is not the best person to provide fishkeeping advice. :thumb:


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Can fish live in a tank that doesn't get water changes except twice a year -- absolutely. Is it responsible fishkeeping? Absolutely not.

Myneighbor kept angels in a 10 gallon tall for years and did water changes maybe twice a year. When I got into fish, I realized how awful that was and I set up a nice planted 33 gallon at my house for them. When we did an initial water test so I could try and match their usual water the nitrate test tube result was literally BLACK. It was off the charts. The two angels were quite large and there was a tiny cory in that 10 gallon as well. While all had survived, I don't think anyone can argue that it was a good situation for them.

Measuring ammonia and nitrites doesn't tell you anything, really, about the quality of the water. It tells you that you have a functioning bacterial culture and that you don't have toxic water, but it doesn't really measure the overall health of the water. NitrAtes do, in a way, help you monitor the health of your water as it's a byproduct that when it rises can indicate other things in the water that are rising unhealthily but that we don't measure for. So I use it as my indicator. I personally keep my African tank at or below 20 ppm nitrAte. You could start measuring it inyour tank and do sufficient water changes to keep it below some amount that you are comfortable with. That might be more or less water than what you are currently doing depending on stocking levels, feeding, etc.

When testing for nitrAte be sure to follow the directions and shake the heck out of the new bottles before doing your initial testing. You will not get an accurate reading without doing that.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

I've never checked nitrate in the passed...only thing I ever checked was PH and ammonia. Both those kits are good and I test my PH at 8.0 and the ammonia is at 0.

I'll get a freshwater nitrate kit today when I'm at the store and test again. I'll post the results later.

I mean don't get me wrong. I'm not claiming that I know anything. I'm simply asking if it's absolutely beneficial to the fish survival to do water changes weekly. If so then I'll keep on doing them, but sometimes it's hard when I'm out of town and stuff and I know the wife isn't going to do it.


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## Curator (Feb 18, 2009)

If your tank is large enough and planted with some easy to take care plants like java moss or java fern, or if you want a plant that will eat up some of the bad stuff in your water like theres no tomorrow, and is really hard to kill (which makes it annoying if you ever want to get rid of it.) try duck weed, its also highly nutritious from what *** read, so if the fish nibble on it, then thats always good, and it can usually take a ton of nibbling,lol... with something like that in your water you may be able to safely slow your water changes down to like once every two weeks, but to make sure, even after putting it in your tank, continue to do your water changes once a week, and check for nitrates every couple weeks, if you get to a point where there is very little or no nitrates, try slowing your water changing schedule to 2 weeks, keep testing for nitrates...as long as its below 20ppm and stays there or lower consistently, no wild fluctuations, then id say it would be safe to stay at the every 2 week margin... its even possible to get to the every month margin but I personally wouldnt suggest it... the fish like the water changes, and if you can get it down to once every 2 weeks, then id say thats convenient enough...at least for me...

In my planted 10g I change the water once every 2 weeks and my nitrates have never been over 10 ppm, even when I had waaaaaaay to many guppies in that tank,lol... although I did have an explosion of plant growth, I think it was from the extra fertilizer,LOL...

Oh, btw, Duckweed has the added bonus of shading the tank a little bit while eating up the nitrates,but this would be bad if you have or want any plants to grow on the bottom of your tank cause it makes it that much harder for light to get tothem... there are other floating plants out there too that work pretty well too, duck weed is just the most resilient that I know of...


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

Even plants can not replace what a water change will do for fish.

Ask your boss how many fish have died in his tank over the years.

Hopefully he is honest and tells the truth.


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## mthigpen_02 (Dec 29, 2008)

Once again I will start by saying you can keep your fish anyway you want as its your fish and your money. Now let me get this straight you don't believe in PH, you don't believe in testing for nitrates, you don't believe in water changes and you don't believe in keeping fish from only one lake or continent together. If you have read all the articles in the library and all replies to your post and still think your way is better than by all means do it your way. Just don't expect many people to give helpful feedback that will meet your already formed opinions.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I HATE duckweed! Do not deliberately put duckweed in your tank. Ugh. I spend every morning trying to pull it out of my two planted tanks. It hitchhiked on the plants, unfortunately (along with snails, also unfortunately).

While planted tanks do remove nitrate from the water, I have two extremely heavily planted tanks that still get weekly water changes. So I don't see the plants as a means to avoid water changes.

That said, if you skip a week because you're out of town, that's not a big deal. Just do an extra one when you get home. And if you're usually feeding twice a day, have the wife do it once a day while you're away and that will reduce waste.


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## xalow (May 10, 2007)

> I'm simply asking if it's absolutely beneficial to the fish survival to do water changes weekly


Yes it is absolutely beneficial. In fact a better way of looking at it is as standard suitable care. When fish are in dirty water it permanently damages them, so its best for you to keep up on the water changes. Nothing makes it so seven days is the best interval to change water, your test results should help figure out about how often you need to change the water or how much to change as this will vary tank to tank.

I have a story similar to what your boss did. My sister kept a tank for months without feeding the fish and she assumed they were all dead. There was algae all over the sides and all but two inches of the water had evaporated. In that tank I saw movement through the murky water and found two gold tetras living amongst the carcasses of their former tankmates. Both of those fish were moved to a cleaner tank and are still alive today though I am sure their gills look like the lungs of a smoker.

Don't let your fish smoke and make sure they stay in [/i]school.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

mthigpen_02 said:


> Once again I will start by saying you can keep your fish anyway you want as its your fish and your money. Now let me get this straight you don't believe in PH, you don't believe in testing for nitrates, you don't believe in water changes and you don't believe in keeping fish from only one lake or continent together. If you have read all the articles in the library and all replies to your post and still think your way is better than by all means do it your way. Just don't expect many people to give helpful feedback that will meet your already formed opinions.


I do not measure pH, nor care about pH, I do not test for nitrates, the OP never said they don't care about water changes nor even implied it, and I happily put fresh water cichlids from all over the world into tanks together... I own a TDS meter, I do massive water changes and I use substrates that I know will help me with pH like aragonite or oak leaves.

I do not even think I am a rarity on this forum...

Why won't this guy get help? He seems to have gotten plenty prior to your reply...

Srook23, hope you've found the replies helpful so far... if I can add to the content, I will. 
Thanks! :thumb:


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## mthigpen_02 (Dec 29, 2008)

Ok let me quote the library so you won't jump on me but will take it up with the forum!!!

"How Much, How Often?

There is no standard answer to the question of how much water to exchange, or how often. It depends on several factors including the size of your tank, number of fish, feeding schedule and filtration system. Testing for nitrates is the most effective way to measure your water quality. As you begin to establish your maintenance schedule, *perform a nitrate test before and after each water change, as well as once in between.* As stated previously, NO3 builds up slowly and your goal is to keep it as low as possible; at the very least it should be less than 40ppm at all times. Once you determine a schedule that works for you, testing can be done less frequently to confirm your routine is adequate."

"pH

pH is probably the single most important property to understand and monitor. It refers to water being acidic, basic (alkaline) or neutral. With a measurement of 7 being neutral, less than 7 is acidic and greater than 7 is alkaline. While common tropical fish are happiest right around neutral, African cichlids prefer the following alkaline ranges:

Lake Malawi species: 7.4 â€" 8.6
Lake Tanganyika species: 7.8 â€" 9.0
Lake Victoria species: 7.2 â€" 8.6

Fish are extremely sensitive to changes in pH and it is important to maintain a stable level in your aquarium. When adjustment is necessary, avoid changes greater than .3 units per day â€" keeping in mind that the pH scale is logarithmic (like the Richter scale used to measure the intensity of earthquakes). This means, for example, that a pH of 8.0 is 10 times more alkaline than a pH of 7.0."

Sounds like real good advice for a Mod to tell everyone that the can forget what they read in the library and do it his way.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

mthigpen_02 said:


> Sounds like real good advice for a Mod to tell everyone that the can forget what they read in the library and do it his way.


Feel free to quote me where I typed that. If you can't find those words, then let me help you out... I never said it.

What I would suggest is the right approach to fish keeping is to read read read and then ask for clarification or more specific information if things are not making sense.

If a nitrate test reads 0, doesn't that sort of fly in the face of the following recommendation in your article (perform a nitrate test before and after each water change, as well as once in between)? "zero, uhm,zero... zero... what the?"

I think so... a smart person should jump on the forum and ask for some help and then act upon that help... like srook23 is doing by buying a freshwater test kit and promising to post numbers.

Think of all the people that can learn from this conversation because srook23 is asking the questions that they have and are just too afraid to ask? Now, if srook23 became defensive or aggressive at the advice/explanations... that wouldn't be useful to anyone.

Good thing that srook23 seems to be taking the advice well. :thumb:


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## mthigpen_02 (Dec 29, 2008)

Number6 said:


> I do not measure pH, nor care about pH, I do not test for nitrates


Close enough for me to imply you saying that what the library says is not important.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

mthigpen_02 said:


> Number6 said:
> 
> 
> > I do not measure pH, nor care about pH, I do not test for nitrates
> ...


On the contrary... my understanding of pH and nitrate is what it is *because* I was allowed to ask for *clarifications *on articles and that knowledge allows me to now ignore pH and nitrate.

To avoid hijacking srook's thread any further, I will leave my answer at that.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

But wait...did srook ever get his freshwater nitrate test? I'm curious!


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

In simple terms we change water to reduce the amount of toxins in the water. Nitrate is used as an indicator for when we need to change it, and is easy to test for. There are all sorts of organic compounds in the water we don't test for, that are better out of the tank. So, if we accept that a high level of nitrate means we need to change the water, all those other substances are also dealt with when we do a water change. Now, when we determine through nitrate testing that we need to change X amount of water to bring the nitrate down to a reasonable level, let's say 10ppm, that amount is a minimum. Over time you can deteremine that X amount of water needs to be changed every Y number of days, to maintain an appropriate level of nitrate. Again, we are talking about a minimum, both in terms of amount and interval. Changing more than the minimum amount is not harmful (actually beneficial) and gives you some headroom if you miss a change (happens to everyone). Always changing more than necessary gives you a nice buffer and your fish will thrive. That is why we change water.
Also, in most natural waters that fish inhabit, nitrate is usually not measureable, most times of the year.
For the record, I don't care about pH and no longer bother to test for it. I also don't test for nitrates. The majority of experienced fishkeepers I know, and more than a few could be called expert, don't test either. What they all do, however, is change lots of water regularly. Some of these people have in excess of 100 tanks. Regular testing would be a monumental task, so they have all evolved methods that they know work, and follow a regular regimen. They also don't doctor their water, and are able to keep and breed a large variety of fish from diverse backgrounds and water types, without any modifications to the water. Fish are very adaptable for the most part and a stable environment is preferable to one that is "perfect" in imitating the native water parameters of a species.
The fish below are around 8" in size and seem to be crowded in the tank, but the tank is immaculate and large water changes are done 4 times weekly. They are Oreochromis esculetum and are part of a species preservation program. Also note the simple filtration.


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2009)

srook23 said:


> IDK. He said he does a water change like once every 4-6 months. :-?


OMG! How did that tank look? Those fish survived? Take it from everyone on this post, do your water changes! Your fish will flourish in clean healthy water :fish: I have 2 filters running on my 75g..1 canister and 1 HOB and I still do weekly water changes of at least 25%.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> The fish below are around 8" in size and seem to be crowded in the tank, but the tank is immaculate and large water changes are done 4 times weekly. They are Oreochromis esculetum and are part of a species preservation program. Also note the simple filtration.


Very nice, BillD! :thumb: I like to think of water changes as another form of filtration, and one of the best. 
*ALL *other filtration methods simply convert toxins or move detritus from one place to another until 
filter media is cleaned. A water change *removes *toxins. And, yes, nitrate is toxic to fish, just not as 
toxic as ammonia or nitrite.

Lack of water changes will result in what's known as old tank syndrome.


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## jhunbj (May 16, 2005)

To answer ur post....ur doing it because u want ur fish to stay healthy.Weekly WC(25%-50%) should be the norm...end of discussion.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> To answer ur post....end of discussion.


Are you hoping, or have you locked the thread? :lol:

He's asking for a reason that it makes the fish healthy, so you really haven't answered his question at all.


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## jhunbj (May 16, 2005)

prov356 said:


> He's asking for a reason that it makes the fish healthy, so you really haven't answered his question at all.


I was answering the TITLE of the post.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

I went and got the test kit, but the same night I had got it I changed my tank from gravel bottom with one large rock and some driftwood to all sand bottom with natural rock formations. I also removed the UGF filter I had in there while I was doing it.

I haven't done the test yet because I removed 100% of the water from the tank. I'm gonna wait a few days til the tank is stabilized and then test.

To answer questions about my bosses tank...

I know what he had in there when him and his wife divorced cuz I helped him move out some of his stuff. He had one red zebra and one Pleco. He left the tank set up at the house. His wife said that the filter went out about 6 months or so after he left and just unplugged it cuz it was draining water on the floor. When hurricane Gustav came through it tore the house up pretty bad and there was major water damage. We went to get the tank back (I went with him). The tank was covered in thick algae and had no type of filtration running. The water was brown like bayou water. When we drained the tank down there was one red zebra and one pleco in the tank. It had been close to 3 years since he left.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*srook23*
usually, it is the norm to test with a purchased test kit PRIOR to making sweeping changes to make sure that the changes have the positive impacts you are hoping for. It's too late now, but you can still see how things progress by using that test kit on the redone aquascape. With a 100% water change, you should be at ~0 nitrates for real now, so I would be measuring ammonia and nitrate (since you own the latter test, might as well use it) on the new setup to make sure you aren't going through a new mini-cycle and how quickly your fish build up nitrates...

make sure to post the results of your ammonia and nitrate tests.

As for the green aquarium... if the tank was being topped up (which it must have been) and had a low bioload, algae may have been providing enough O2 and ammonia removal that 2 fish could survive. They obviously didn't thrive or they would have been huge after 2.5 years... 
I would view the green swamp as an oddity and not evidence that waste removal in your tank was not important. Afterall, not many of us strive to build swamps in our glass boxes.

Hope that helps.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

I set the tank up Friday night. I finally decided to test today. I did the test Sunday 3/1/09 at 5PM. I got 0PPM nitrates. 0 ammonia. 8.0 PH.

I'll measure again in a few more days.


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## mthigpen_02 (Dec 29, 2008)

Just wondering if you started a new cycle by changing everything and what your numbers are?


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## Shifty (Jan 18, 2009)

I had a tank setup with 13 baby convicts in a 55 gal. There was a crappy little HOB filter on it, I kept the lights off most of the time, fed once a day, and never changed the water... it was still crystal clear and the fish "looked" healthy...

Now having said that, I got on this forum and learned all I could about cichlids and turned that same tank into a Mbuna tank and even now that filter is keeping the water crystal clear. However, now that i'm doing water changes I notice how much these fish poop. In "perfect" conditions and with very few fish the natural cycle can keep up for a long time. If you want to have healthy and beautiful fish you have to keep their "little world" up to par with nature's standards... You can cheat every once in a while and take a week off, but you will notice quickly how things change.


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## van lifeson (Mar 11, 2009)

herny said:


> how about this guy that knows every thing dont do a water change for a month and see how it goes


i know a guy (good friend of mine) he has 30 tanks in his garage. everything from small tropicals to large cichlids. he hardly ever does water changes he just tops off the tanks as they evaporate. his fish have always been healthy and he has them breeding too. he has 
half a dozen tanks of assorted african babies. (he even says, "i do things alot different than people say your supposed to and what i do may not work for you") his tanks are not what you would call show quality, he calls them natural quality and they all have quite a bit of algae in them but the water is crystal clear. he says "what do you think real lakes look like under the surface?" all his tanks are loaded with real plants too. oh well he is Irish. (lucky F'er)


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It's the plants that does it. I had one tank that went to zero nitrates when I added a bunch of Vallisneria.


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## TiAgMC (Mar 12, 2009)

When you guys are doing the water changes are you guys vacuuming out the gravel on the bottom? or just removing the water?

If just removing the water how often do you clean the gravel?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Vacuum the gravel every time. By the time you are done vacuuming the gravel, the water is removed, LOL.


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## herny (Nov 30, 2007)

> i know a guy (good friend of mine) he has 30 tanks in his garage. everything from small tropicals to large cichlids. he hardly ever does water changes he just tops off the tanks as they evaporate. his fish have always been healthy and he has them breeding too. he has
> half a dozen tanks of assorted african babies. (he even says, "i do things alot different than people say your supposed to and what i do may not work for you") his tanks are not what you would call show quality, he calls them natural quality and they all have quite a bit of algae in them but the water is crystal clear. he says "what do you think real lakes look like under the surface?" all his tanks are loaded with real plants too. oh well he is Irish. (lucky F'er)


 teh plants prolly help with the nitrites and shuch but in lake Malwia there is no plants so even if his tank dirty and a lazy mans tank its still not natural


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## mthigpen_02 (Dec 29, 2008)

3 Weeks and no test results guess you decided on the bosses preferred water change schedule.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

Sorry, forgot about it. I've been testing, but have continued the weekly water changes. For the most part every time I do a water change I get 0 ammonia and my nitrates are usually at about 20 at the highest.


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## LowCel (Apr 6, 2004)

I'm amazed you did not have a mini-cycle when you removed 100% of the water and your substrate. I've had them when I removed 75% due to having to move.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

LowCel said:


> I'm amazed you did not have a mini-cycle when you removed 100% of the water and your substrate. I've had them when I removed 75% due to having to move.


I would suspect an ammonia spike from all the debris stirred up from removing the substrate... 
either that or you aren't dechlorinating your tap water and the chlorine is killing the bacteria in the filter.

I do 100% water changes all the time and there is NO ammonia increase. Done right, there is NO such thing as too great of a water change.


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## niccomau (Oct 14, 2008)

I believe that the maker of this thread had a valid question, I just hate to see everyone giving so him much attitude for asking it. It seems to me that everyone thinks they know the best answer to any given question, but it usually all about personal experience. In my experience you do water changes no only because of nitrates, but because of free radicals aswell. Chemicals, oils, lotions etc. can all be transferred into you water when putting your hands in the tank. Chemicals in the air can be introduced into the water through surface aggitation. For example, my uncle has spray painted on his back deck and had a fish die inside the house because of it. The chemicals made it into the water, then into the fish. So aside from nitrates, you do water changes to dilute free radicals aswell. Also water changes can help some types of fish breed. Some fish breed during the rainy seasons, so water changes can stimulate that behavior. :thumb:


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

Well, the main reason I was asking because I was doing the bucket brigade at the time. Since then I got smart and got a Python and now doing water changes is so much easier I don't mind doing 1-2 changes a week cuz it's so much faster and easier. It was just getting on my nerves.

So regardless of whether I need it or not I've started doing 1-2 50% changes a week. :thumb:


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## niccomau (Oct 14, 2008)

Haha! I love my python. They are the single most useful investment that an aquarist can make!!! My coworker just got one and can't stop talking about it. :thumb: She does her siphoning, hooks up another hose to the output and water all her plants with it. She saves water that way. Plus the aquarium water is more nourishing to plants, and already dechlored.


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## planenut007 (Mar 21, 2009)

180 w/50ish lake malawi's 2 fx5's along with 25 watt uv sterilizer, changes performed every 2 wks, nitrates never above 10.
90 w/2 O's 3 SD's & 1 JD wet/dry 300 gph, emp 400, 18 watt uv sterilizer, changes performed every week, nitrates never above 10.
60 w/14 mature angels heavily planted with xp3, mag 350 no bio wheels, 10 watt uv sterilizer, changes performed every 2 wks, nitrates never above 10.
All changes are 50%, with prime added. All tanks stay crystal clear, all fish active and happy.
I suppose what I am saying here is, even though the nitrates are below the "danger level" why not spend a few minutes every 2 wks to please your wet pets, after all they where chose by you, and the responsibility to keep them healthy is yours.


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