# Single aulonocara baenschi not eating



## Bamzam

Hi. I have 10 Aulonocara baenschi Nkhomo Reef and 10 Placidochromis sp. ''Phenochilus Tanzania'' Lupingu in a tank. I bought them all around 1-1.5" about 3 weeks ago (the baenschi were closer to 1.5", the haps closer 1"). I feed NLS 1mm pellets 3x/day and all are healthy/fat and it might just be my imagination, but I think they've grown quite a bit in these 3 weeks. 1 of the baenschi is up to ~2.5" and has colored up already.

However, one of the baenschi is starting to be noticeably smaller than the others and looks skinny. I noticed during feeding, it is more timid. So I space out the feeding and ensure it has opportunity..but when it gets a pellet, it just spits it out. The other haps his size (one or two might be smaller) have no issues eating the pellets, so i don't think theyre too big. Should I add some flake food to help the small one eat? Or just keep trying til it figures it out?


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## Bamzam

Tried getting a pic for comparison, but its roughly half the size of all the other Aulonocara. I wouldn't be bothered if it was eating, but for the past few days I'm not sure I've seen it swallow any pellets, they always get spit out


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## DJRansome

Is he being harassed?


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## Bamzam

Nope not at all. Despite him being the runt, I see him chase others out of his area when he's digging through the sand


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## DJRansome

Keep watching because harassed fish do chase...they may be starting and finishing the fights and still wearing down their immune systems.

IME the most common (by far) cause of fish illness is aggression.

If you have a spare cycled tank you could put him in there and see if you can get him to eat.

What do the feces look like?


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## Bamzam

Haven't noticed any white or ill looking feces in the tank. Was more of the same during feeding today. Although he might be a little timid, he doesn't mind being in the middle of the frenzy for food. I saw him get to pellets 4-5x, and he would just chew it once and spit it out right after. Almost like he just doesn't want to eat them? Should I try a flake food?


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## Deeda

Yes you can try a flake food to see if he eats.


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## noki

I've always thought a Malawi cichlid acting somewhat fatigued, chewing on the food, then spitting it out is the first sign of "bloat disease". Eventually the fish stops bothering to grab food, and acts tired. The digestive system is basically blocked. The bloat doesn't happen until they are very sick, their belly fills up with fluid. I've never seen picky tank raised Malawi cichlids, if they are healthy they eat fish foods.

Just the move can stress fish out. Clean stable water is the best defense.


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## Bamzam

Thanks for the reply. Maybe it is some kind of bloat/digestive issue. He's still doing the same with pellets where he goes to get it but then he spits it out. I got some cobalt flakes and i see him eating the small pieces. The bigger flakes he will chew and spit out into tiny pieces and start eating them when they're more broken up. Problem with that is that when he spits it out, sometimes the other fish will come steal it.

I'm doing around 15-20% water change daily so keeping clean water will not be an issue, I hope it helps. Continuing to feed 3x a day, with the middle feeding being flakes now to ensure he eats something. I hate feeding flakes though, I feel like it just dirties the water and filters more lol


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## DJRansome

I would stick to the staple food. Like noki says a healthy fish will eat anything.

What do the feces look like? You want to see what things look like on that specific fish especially, while still attached. It requires a lot of observation.

Of course if you see the thready, white feces on any other fish that is helpful too.

You could put the fish that is not eating in a hospital tank to make it easier to observe the feces as well.


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## Bamzam

As an update, for the past few days I've continued to feed 3x a day with the middle feeding being flakes. I've noticed the small one eat the tiniest pieces of flakes but continues to spit out larger flakes and all the pellets. However...in an effort to get this one tiny fish to eat, I think I've been overfeeding the tank. The fish seem to like the flakes a lot, and in the 3rd feeding today I noticed a couple of the other fish also spitting pellets out. So I'm thinking either a) theres some kind of contagious internal parasite in my tank b) I've created picky eaters that prefer flakes or c) I'm just overfeeding?

Theres been no changes in behavior that I've seen other than spitting out pellets. No fish seem to be hiding in corners, havent seen any white feces, and all fish still aggressively attack and search for food, even if they end up spitting it out (including the small one). All the pellets are still gone within 20-30 seconds in all feedings, so some of them must just be eating a lot. I want to get them back on one staple food so my plan is to not feed for the next day (or two?) to get them hungry and go back to a staple pellet only feeding 2x a day. *** ordered some northfin 1mm pellets and I read online they might be just a little smaller than the NLS ones, so will try that out. I am still changing ~20% water daily, so if there is any kind of bacteria or something wrong im hoping the clean water will help out. Please let me know if anything sounds off or if there are any other precautions I should take or symptoms to look for. Thanks!


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## DJRansome

I would say b or c or both. As long as you see thick food colored feces on the fish the digestive system is working.

20% daily is fine if you have an auto water changer, but a single large water change weekly will give you cleaner water. What is your nitrate reading?


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## Bamzam

Api test kit is not picking up a reading so less than 5 ppm. What's the thought on a weekly water change being cleaner water than changing 20% daily?

In addition to the benefit of clean water, I just hate the look of a dirty tank and my bristlenose leaves a ton of feces everywhere. So the daily water change is really just me vacuuming the sand bed every day, and the amount of time it takes to get all the feces ends up being around ~20% of the water. Also this is just habit for me from keeping discus and I think it keeps the fish used to me being arms in the tank and not scared.


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## Bamzam

As a note I probably should have included, I do a larger amount on Sundays, probably closer to 40-50%. But back to the first question, I thought the reduction in nitrates was linear. So if I started at 20 ppm, and assumed a daily increase of 2 ppm, changing 20% daily would bring me to 10 ppm after a week. Using the same example of 20 ppm start and increase of 2 ppm daily, with a 50% water change once at the end of the week, i'd end up at 16 ppm?


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## tacs

Bamzam said:


> ... and in the 3rd feeding today I noticed a couple of the other fish also spitting pellets out. So I'm thinking either a) theres some kind of contagious internal parasite in my tank b) I've created picky eaters that prefer flakes or c) I'm just overfeeding?
> 
> Theres been no changes in behavior that I've seen other than spitting out pellets.


I'm guessing that from the pic above this all started with the fish on the bottom sifting gravel? From what I've seen, when a fish that normally eats a food starts spitting it out you are looking at bloat. The fact that you are saying others are doing it now is the second sign. The fish on the bottom does appear to be concave in the stomach area and maybe it is a parasite but I've seen fish that have that look who can't stop eating.

Have you added epsom salts to the tank?

I also agree with DJRansome that you are currently overfeeding. Resist that. I know it is hard.

You might get some API General Cure or Seachem Metroplex along with some Seachem's Garlic Guard and start soaking pellets in a concoction of this to get it in everyone else and possibly entice the non-eaters to take it in.

Here is a the recipe per Seachem's website (https://www.seachem.com/metroplex.php):
Dosing in Food
Feed the medicated food mix (recipe below) every day until the infection clears or up to 3 weeks. This medicated food can be refrigerated or frozen between feedings.

1 scoop MetroPlex
1 scoop Focus™
1 tbsp food (preferably pellets or frozen food)
A few drops of water if using a dry food
To enhance palatability use with GarlicGuard™ or Entice™.

I didn't include the Focus just to save money. If you can afford it, get it. I'd certainly add the epsom salts. Here is another good link about bloat treatments: https://cichlidguide.com/malawi-bloat/ The epsom salts recommendation here is 1/8 of a tsp per 5 gallons.

From the guide:
"The Epsom salt is believed to help relieve some of the symptoms of swelling caused by water retention in the Cichlid's body. It can also help fish who may be suffering from constipation due to blocked intestines."

I feel like the 1/8 tsp/5 gallons is low. I'd say you could go for 1Tbsp/10 gallons.

Here is another interesting post from MonsterFishKeepers: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/foru ... us.339362/

I hope it is b and c as DJRansome said but I'd be preparing for something internal. Take a look at the monsterfishkeepers post especially. If I were adding epsom salts to the food, I'd also add the GarlicGuard to cover some of that taste up. Who knows maybe fish don't care but Epsom salts is really tough for humans to take.


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## Bamzam

Thanks for the reply. Just to confirm, treating the food with metro will not have any harm for the other healthy fish or if there ends up not being any parasites/digestive issues? Should I start this now proactively or wait to see their reaction after a couple days of no feeding?


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## tacs

Metro is a drug and as such I'm sure it has impact on kidneys and liver. I have done this before and of course there is no immediate damage but long term might be something else.

I would start with some epsom salts and be getting supplies for treating food if things don't improve. If you are going to have Africans then you might as well be prepared in case something happens by having this on hand if need be. I like to soak the pellets in a bit of garlic guard as a treat anyway plus the fish might get some of the benefits of the garlic. The salts aren't going to hurt and they may get things going again.

Are there several now that are still not eating? When food is not in the water do they sometimes move their mouths like they have something in there ... almost like they are trying to get something out?

The reason you might start sooner than later is that while fish are eating this gets the metro inside them to do its job. Once they reject all food it is a different game altogether. What has me concerned is you reporting that others are spitting out food. That could be signs of spread.

Using this treatment overall won't hurt them as a rule. If they are constantly on metro or prazi then you're going to damage them in the end.

The potential damage from metro is why the MonsterFishKeepers method of addressing new fish intrigues me. I'm going to be looking at that more closely for sure.


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## Bamzam

Gotcha. Haven't fed all day today so I'm not sure if that was happening just because it was the 3rd feeding in the day yesterday. Havent noticed the mouth movement you mentioned so ill keep an eye out for that. I will order Epsom salt and garlic guard to be prepared and still wait until tomorrow to feed. With the day off from feeding, I should have an answer on the other fish eating or not.


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## DJRansome

I would not medicate unless you have a diagnosis on at least one fish. Thready white feces would give you a diagnosis. Thick food colored feces on all fish will give you proof it is not bloat.

My fish spit food out and eat it again all the time. In the end they are eating and swallowing and the food is passing through the body.


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## tacs

Not my experience at all


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## Bamzam

Thank you all for the input. I agree it doesn't hurt to have some in the house in case I need it someday, so im placing an order for some Epsom salt. I'm going to hold off from using it until Saturday to see how all the fish respond to pellets tomorrow. Caught a decent pic of the tiny one that hasn't been eating.

They all seem a little aggressive today, chasing each other around. Probably bc they're hangry and I'm sitting by the tank not giving them anything lol


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## Bamzam

After a day and a half of not feeding, I fed the regular 1mm NLS pellets tonight. Its hard to watch all 20, but from what I could tell, all fish ate well with the exception of the 1 tiny one still. None of the other fish seemed to be spitting out the pellets. No odd behavior, everything seems normal.

I continued to watch the fish and noticed on a couple fish, it looked like a clear feces hanging from their body, so i got a little worried. Kept watching and after a clear portion, the same piece of feces would turn darker to food color. I attached 2 pics, one where its only clear and the second where it turns dark (hard to see the clear part since it blends with the sand, but half of it below the dark part is clear). Is that normal to be part clear and part dark? I havent seen any full completely clear feces. The fact that they all ate well gives some relief but I'm still debating if I should start metro treatments now or just lower the feedings to 2x a day and continue to monitor.


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## DJRansome

Because you have thick dark feces passing through some of the time...there is no absolute blockage. I would go with Epsom salt at this time. I always keep pure metronidazole on hand, but I keep demasoni.

Why not isolate the little one and see if you can grow him out so he can compete better with the others? That fish does not look skinny at ALL.


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## Bamzam

The last pics weren't the tiny one, that was a different fish. That's what made me worried that it was other fish that had partially clear feces.

I dont have the space or equipment for a separate hospital tank at this time. Didnt think id have to be ready for that until the fish were a little older and started to breed.

But thank you, ill start an epsom treatment going.


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## Bamzam

The little guy just never took to eating and passed yesterday. Never got the bloated stomach, so not sure what it was. All other fish seem fine but I think I'm going to soak pellets in metro/focus/garlic as a preventative measure for the others just in case. Do I limit to 1 feeding per day in soaked pellets?


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## Bamzam

Also, do i stop all water changes while treating for 7 days?


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## shiftyfox

Well worth investing in a hospital tank just in case. So much easier to focus on the one fish and treat as necessary as well as being able to use less medication ect (Sorry about your fish loss)


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## noki

Just watch the fish now, see if all of the fish are eating and not spitting out the food. Sometimes the fish that are sick look like they are trying to cough, or chewing on nothing. If you can get them to eat the soaked pellets, good.

The best defense is clean water, so don't stop water changes.


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## Bamzam

Thanks, I do plan to set up a 20g long as a hospital/hopefully breeding tank, but not for a few more months.

I dont know if I'm paranoid from losing the one fish but I feel like a couple of the star sapphires have concave bellies. Started the metro/focus/garlic soaked pellets today. Fish went nuts for the garlic, but there were some uneaten pellets at the end. A couple weeks ago the pellets wouldn't even hit the floor. I plan to do this for at least a week, feeding only 1x a day. Should I be doing any water changes during that time?


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## Bamzam

noki said:


> Just watch the fish now, see if all of the fish are eating and not spitting out the food. Sometimes the fish that are sick look like they are trying to cough, or chewing on nothing. If you can get them to eat the soaked pellets, good.
> 
> The best defense is clean water, so don't stop water changes.


Oops, sorry, missed this reply. Thanks for the input, will continue to change water.


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## Bamzam

Sorry, one more question. Done with day 2 of feeding medicine soaked pellets. Maybe the medicine makes it gross, or maybe they're all suffering from the same parasite/infection...but definitely noticing more fish spit out pellets and less pellets being eaten. Im going to continue this treatment for 5 more days to bring it to 7 days total. After that, if theyre still spitting pellets, I was considering treating the water column with pure metronidazole from national fish pharm. Good/bad idea? Would that add further stress to the fish? Especially any that aren't sick?


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## Bamzam

Couple bellies that look a little concave to me


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## shiftyfox

Have you tried feeding flake food..?


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## Bamzam

shiftyfox said:


> Have you tried feeding flake food..?


I did...some fish took to the flakes and some didnt. Might have been my imagination but some of the ones that did like flakes started to not like pellets. I didn't want to create picky eaters so I tried to get them all back on a staple pellet. But you're right, for the sake of getting medicine into all of them, maybe I should be soaking some flakes as well. Then I can ween them off it again when I'm sure everyone's healthy

I did 7 tablespoons of epsom salt in the water column and I'm feeding 1x a day metro/focus/garlic soaked pellets. 3 days down so far. I plan to continue doing daily water changes of 15-20% and will add back 1 tablespoon epsom with each water change while treatment continues. Going to see how they are after 7 days of this and determine if pure metro is needed in the water column after


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## shiftyfox

Fingers crossed it works and they start eating for you, so frustrating when they don't. 
Epsom salt is always my go to if I suspect bloat and normally works alone. Like you mention if they won't take medicated food then get some metro into the water. 
I assume fish are showing signs of white stringy poop..?


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## Bamzam

yup some of them started showing white stringy poop. Seemed like even more so after I started with the epsom and metro. Not sure if thats a good sign? They're shedding whatever they need to?

I dissolve the epsom salt in a cup of tank water and just dump it in. Guess we'll see if it works in a week or two


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## shiftyfox

Sounds likes it's working. The last fish i quarantined with suspected bloat white stringy poop teamed out of her after adding the same combo 
Over a few days it must have added up to at least 60cm that had come out of the fish. Day after she started eating as normal.


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## Bamzam

shiftyfox said:


> Fingers crossed it works and they start eating for you, so frustrating when they don't.
> Epsom salt is always my go to if I suspect bloat and normally works alone. Like you mention if they won't take medicated food then get some metro into the water.
> I assume fish are showing signs of white stringy poop..?


You're right its getting really frustrating. Can't get them to swallow the medicated food, so starting the water column treatment tomorrow. I can tell theyre hungry, they still aggressively attack the medicated flakes, but just spit it all out. Then they spend hours sifting through sand to look for food, but still won't swallow the leftovers. I end up vacuuming most of it up during daily water changes. My worry is that once they don't like something, they won't even go near it. NLS and northfin pellets they won't even try, those just go straight to the floor. The flakes theyll try but spit out, so im hoping the medication doesn't ruin it for them to where they wont even try these as well. Keeping the epsom salinity the same by adding a tablespoon during every water change. Once I start treating the water column with metro im gonna try the NLS thera A pellets. Hopefully the garlic and lack of medication will entice them.


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## Deeda

I just wanted to clarify your statement about Epsom salinity in your post above. Epsom salt is not sodium based so hence no salinity, it is a mineral called magnesium sulfate.

If you haven't read it already, the Malawi Bloat article in the C-F Library gives a good explanation on treating it.


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## Bamzam

Deeda said:


> I just wanted to clarify your statement about Epsom salinity in your post above. Epsom salt is not sodium based so hence no salinity, it is a mineral called magnesium sulfate.
> 
> If you haven't read it already, the Malawi Bloat article in the C-F Library gives a good explanation on treating it.


Thanks, sorry, wrong terminology. Meant I'm trying to keep the same level of epsom salt by replacing 1-2 tablespoons dissolved epsom salt with each water change of 15-20%. Great article and i hope following it to a T will get these fish eating again


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## orangeversion

Bamzam said:


> Hi. I have 10 Aulonocara baenschi Nkhomo Reef and 10 Placidochromis sp. ''Phenochilus Tanzania'' Lupingu in a tank. I bought them all around 1-1.5" about 3 weeks ago (the baenschi were closer to 1.5", the haps closer 1"). I feed NLS 1mm pellets 3x/day and all are healthy/fat and it might just be my imagination, but I think they've grown quite a bit in these 3 weeks. 1 of the baenschi is up to ~2.5" and has colored up already.
> 
> However, one of the baenschi is starting to be noticeably smaller than the others and looks skinny. I noticed during feeding, it is more timid. So I space out the feeding and ensure it has opportunity..but when it gets a pellet, it just spits it out. The other haps his size (one or two might be smaller) have no issues eating the pellets, so i don't think theyre too big. Should I add some flake food to help the small one eat? Or just keep trying til it figures it out?


It would be better for you to keep your fish in a separate place for a few days. And even if the condition doesn't change, then you should change its food. You can try to give it try a flake food. Maybe it can work for your fish.


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