# New to the hobby



## bnliv2ski (Dec 10, 2014)

Hi there, I have a 90 gal tank w/ 29 African Ciclid's approx 2-3.5 in currently. I had some 3/4 in gravel that I just changed out for crushed coral. I have not put the fish back in yet but my question is about filtration. I have a Marine land 350 w/ bio wheels and 2 Marine land max jets 600's. I Do not feel too impressed w/ the way this filter keeps my tank clean. I do water changes every 3 weeks and change the charcoal and filter screen every month. The large gravel was too hard to siphon and trapped too much poo. I hope the sand will keep most of this on top and heard the ciclidd like this better anyway. I have been looking at an Eheim 2217 to replace the Marine land. Currently may set up has the 2 power heads Left side of tank in back 1 on top and 1 near substrate. The filter inlet sits approx 6 in to the right of these on back wall. I wanted to get a current to circle the tank but I guess I am wondering if the inlet is too close to the power heads and if I should move the power heads to the far Right side of the tank and change to direction of the flow to possibly get more debris into the intake. I believe the Eheim is a better unit and not so much maintenance w/o the bio wheels. I also don't know if I would need the spray bar w/ the power heads. I have 2 air stone 10in going in the bottom of the tank as well. I feed the fish baby pellets from Hikari. They eat it all w/in approx 3-5 minutes (not sure if over feeding. I have 1 pictus cat and 2 alge eaters in there as well. 
Sorry for rambling, but I think this is everything I have done so far. Any suggestions on filter change or setup. I also don't know if setting up a new filter w/ that many fish would cause problems, I guess I could cycle the Eheim filter before I pulled out the Marineland Bio wheels and filter.

Any help would be appreciated.


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## sparky4056 (Sep 1, 2014)

I think the eheim would be a better filter choice, but I am partial to canister filters over hob's. What i did to cycle my canister filter when I switched over from a biowheel was cut up the existing biowheels and place them on the bio media in my new canister, this seeded the new canister pretty fast. As for the flow, I always put a spray bar on one side facing slightly upward with the intake on the same side in the back corner close to the substrate. This creates a circular flow through the whole tank from top to bottom. Sorry, but I'm not sure about powerhead placement because I've never had a tank big enough to need one. Whatever filter you decide to use, I would ditch the carbon. It's just an extra monthly expense that's really not needed unless removing medication from the water. I personally only use mechanical media and purigen. Hope this was somewhat helpful.


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

bnliv2ski said:


> Hi there, I have a 90 gal tank w/ 29 African Ciclid's approx 2-3.5 in currently. I had some 3/4 in gravel that I just changed out for crushed coral. I have not put the fish back in yet but my question is about filtration. I have a Marine land 350 w/ bio wheels and 2 Marine land max jets 600's. I Do not feel too impressed w/ the way this filter keeps my tank clean. I do water changes every 3 weeks and change the charcoal and filter screen every month. The large gravel was too hard to siphon and trapped too much poo. I hope the sand will keep most of this on top and heard the ciclidd like this better anyway. I have been looking at an Eheim 2217 to replace the Marine land. Currently may set up has the 2 power heads Left side of tank in back 1 on top and 1 near substrate. The filter inlet sits approx 6 in to the right of these on back wall. I wanted to get a current to circle the tank but I guess I am wondering if the inlet is too close to the power heads and if I should move the power heads to the far Right side of the tank and change to direction of the flow to possibly get more debris into the intake. I believe the Eheim is a better unit and not so much maintenance w/o the bio wheels. I also don't know if I would need the spray bar w/ the power heads. I have 2 air stone 10in going in the bottom of the tank as well. I feed the fish baby pellets from Hikari. They eat it all w/in approx 3-5 minutes (not sure if over feeding. I have 1 pictus cat and 2 alge eaters in there as well.
> Sorry for rambling, but I think this is everything I have done so far. Any suggestions on filter change or setup. I also don't know if setting up a new filter w/ that many fish would cause problems, I guess I could cycle the Eheim filter before I pulled out the Marineland Bio wheels and filter.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


You might need to up the frequency of your water changes, but the addition of sand will make this much easier for you, and you're right about the fish liking it.

I would definitely make the switch to a canister, and you can simply leave the Marineland on the tank while the canister cycles. You could even run both in conjunction, permanently, unless you want to remove the HOB. You could run each of the filters on separate sides of the tank, and split the two powerheads to create flow in the direction of each intake. The spraybar will help with oxygenation, which your powerheads are not currently producing unless you're pointing them at the surface.

I agree with Sparky; there's no need for carbon unless you're actively trying to remove an odor/color/medication. Just make sure to use plenty of bio-filtration, i.e. bio balls, ceramic rings, or porous rock.

At 3-5 minutes, I would say you're overfeeding. Most suggest under a minute for cichlids. I usually feed just enough for me to see that everyone has gotten some; typically it doesn't even make it to the substrate. 

What species do you have in your tank? I would keep an eye on the pictus, as the cichlids at my place of employment have nipped their whiskers off before.


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## bnliv2ski (Dec 10, 2014)

Thanks to both of you guys for the advise. As for the species, I have to admit I did what another person on this site did and bought ones that looked cool. The kids at the local pet shops don't really know too much I would imagine. They are all Africans. Feeling kind of stupid now but I have 2 that are bright yellow I think called electric yellow, 3 jewels, 2 moliro moori's, 2 bumble bees, desmoni, some other peacocks, not sure on others as dosent say on receipts, but 2 are bright blue and black and longer, 2 are blue and dark blue stripped like zebras, I have 2 of a lot of them and 1 orange one. they have lots of hiding places as I have lots of Rocks from Lake Superior in there, a large piece of driest wood, and silk plants. All the fins seem good and tails as far as being picked on and 4 of these are way bigger than the rest. I will probably get the Eheim, just don't know about the spray bar. I can up partial water changes to every 2 weeks and cut down on the food. Too many things to move out of tank I guess, kind of discouraging but I have committed to doing this so I will quit crying and do it! 
Still wondering about the close proximity of my intake in relation the the power heads though. I probably won't keep both going after new canister cycles. Not sure if its better to put intake on opposite end of power heads. For airation I'm using a wiser 150 and have 2 10in long by 2in wide bubble wands going in back and the bio wheels currently.

Thanks again for the help and any more that flows my way.

B.


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## bnliv2ski (Dec 10, 2014)

As far as the charcoal goes, I guess I thought that made my water clear. I have also been alternating the charcoal w/ a pleated polisher cartridge that fits in the Magnum canister, but that clogs pretty fast, I'd say a few days and filtration slows down. The Eheim has everything inside and from the looks of it less messing around, 1 claimed to clean it twice a year, but I'm not sure about that???


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Welcome to C-F...

I'm with the others on adding the canister and ditching the carbon. Carbon does clear up your water, but loses it's effectiveness around 2 weeks.

Do you have a test kit? One with the liquid droppers and test tubes? If so, what are your readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? I'm assuming your nitrate is very high. Changing water every 3 weeks in not nearly frequent enough. The goal is to keep your nitrates as low as possible. Schedule your water changes around nitrate. The norm is weekly at least 30%, but most do more. Personally, I do 50-60% on my bigger tanks and more frequent changes on the smaller ones. If you can plan your maint when nitrate hits 20 ppm, then you're doing a fantastic job. Try to prevent it climbing any higher than 40. A test kit is a must for fishkeeping. Fresh, clean water is important for overall fish health and color.

Once you add the canister, run it alongside the HOB permanantly. 2 filters is always better than one. With proper weekly maint, and the addition of a canister filter, you'll see an improvment in water quality/clarity and fish activity and color.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

First off - the magnum 350 IS a canister.

That said, a 90 holding 29 fish, with a single canister of that size is under-filtered, period. Add the Eheim and run it with the Magnum.

Agree with others on stepping up the water changes, and having a good test kit.

If you go with a spray bar, you can lose the bubbles/air pump. Also, if you add a second canister, with strategic placement of the filter inlets and outlets, you may also be able to eliminate one or both powerheads.

My preference is for as little equipment as possible to be visible in the tank, but still maintain good filtration and circulation.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

> First off - the magnum 350 IS a canister.


Most definitely. I have 2 sitting in my garage. But the OP mentioned bio wheels, which the canister does not have. I just assumed it was a typo/wrong model written.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

I agree with adding 2217 as well and keeping the 350. I would also place both powerheads at each corner top. Put a pre-filter on the intake and point the output towards the surface and front of the tank just off center. Do the same with the Eheim spray bar. All the surface agitation will help with oxygenation and the resulting flow will hit the front glass and move down and around the tank. I use the black marineland pre-filters on the power heads that they sell specifically for that purpose. I clean these filters once a week when I do water changes using the old tank water for cleaning. 
Also not clear on the existing filter your running. It sounds like every month you are throwing away the filter material and so the beneficial bacteria too. Is this correct.
Mike


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> > First off - the magnum 350 IS a canister.
> 
> 
> Most definitely. I have 2 sitting in my garage. But the OP mentioned bio wheels, which the canister does not have. I just assumed it was a typo/wrong model written.


Understand the confusion - FWIW Marineland packaged a 350 "pro" or something like that with the canister and the biowheels. The biowheels were designed to be powered by the outlet of the filter.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Ahhh... I see. Mine are about 13-14 years old so I'm not familiar with the combo pack.


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Marineland Penguin 350 is a HOB with Bio-wheels.

Joe


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Marineland also makes a Magnum 350 canister filter which is what the OP has though it is the Pro version that also has the hang on tank bio wheels. I had one of these exact units on my 1st 75G tank and found it clogs up quickly and needed weekly cleaning once my fish matured.


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## bnliv2ski (Dec 10, 2014)

Yes I have the Marineland Magnum 350 pro w/ the bio wheels. I would like to ditch the wheels If I use the magnum and the Eheim 2217 together since the Eheim has all the different media types inside and I could also add some media in the magnum since apparently my carbon is a waste ( I looked at Matrix from Seachem). If I ditch the wheels I can place an intake at each end of the tank as the bio wheels take up almost a whole side in the back of my tank. From there I could figure out a setup w/ spray bar and ask more questions when I get that far.
I do have a chemical test kit w/ test tubes but I have been using the test strips due to less hassle. If these are not adequate I can start using the drops and tubes. I will check my water in a few days as I have just put the fish back in from another tank due to changing from 3/4in gravel to Carib Sea Aragonite reef sand in the tank.
Sounds like the consensus is to have both filters going and get some foam for my intakes, I guess I didn't think my tank was that big but I guess there is quite a few fish. I was told they would fight less if I overstocked, but what the heck am I going to do when they get big? I guess I can put some in the 75 gal in the basement also w/ the Magnum 350 pro.
I will order the Eheim 2217 unless there is another filter around the same price that is better. I can get the Eheim 2217 for $150 w/ media included.

Thanks for all who have given advice and not laughed too hard at my newness in this cool new hobby. I'm sure I will have more questions, but hey thats how I learn and there is way more experience backed knowledge here than at the pet shop.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

The test strips are a quick way to test the water but I think the test tubes with reagents give a more accurate result.

I'm not a big fan of using pre-filters on the canister intake strainer unless you have fry, shrimp or live plants because people tend to forget to clean them since they aren't usually visible. I keep my intake strainer 3 - 4 inches above the sand substrate to reduce the chance of sand ingestion though there is always some fish that insists it needs to spit sand that direction.

I like the Eheim Classic models of filters and think it will do well on your 90G tank. There are other brands of canister filters that are popular such as the SunSun, Fluval, etc. but I have no personal experience with them.

Just remember, all of us were new at one time or another. The only time we laugh is when someone continues to make the same mistake over and over or when we have made the same mistakes ourselves.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

First - no one is laughing at you. most of us are far more likely to be jealous of you, since you are getting good advice and are asking questions, rather than learning by trial and error in the "dark ages" prior to the internet. 

Overcrowding Mbuna is a proven method to reduce aggression, but that logic does not hold true for other cichlids. When they do get fully grown, you can cull off ones that you don't want and either sell them, put them in a different tank, or trade in to your LFS for credit.

If you are going new for the filter, the classic Eheim is a great option. I prefer to go used, and have standardized on the Eheim Pro II series in my tanks.

One other thing about the bio wheels - I never experienced them clogging and ran them for years before I read on the internet how bad they were.  They provide good oxygenation, although they are a bit noisy sometimes. (Just reread Deedas comment and it may have been addressed to the Magnum itself)


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## bnliv2ski (Dec 10, 2014)

Feeding these guys less now making sure they eat all w/in 1 minute and saving for the Eheim 2217. I had to buy a new light as the used one I had started flickering a lot and is on its way out. 
These guys sure like digging in that sand, there like mini bulldozers. New note to self, careful what is near the glass, they knocked a smaller rock into the front by digging under it. When I ever do end up get a bunch of holy rock I am wanting is it a good idea to epoxy them all together or does one just stack carefully. I don't want to come home to 90 gallons on my hardwood floor

It was mentioned to do weekly water changes of what seems quite a bit of water, when everyone does this do they take all the stuff out of the tank every time and siphon the substrate too or is that periodically and just taking out water each week and add new?

Thanks again, sorry for all the questions
B.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

You want your rockwork directly on the bottom glass when using sand. So when they dig, as you found out, no rocks will tumble. Just need careful placement; no epoxy needed.

I never take everything out during water changes. Depending on the tank, I may just hook up a hose to a submersible pump and remove whatever is needed. I'll siphon out waste in tanks that have dead spots in combination with the pump.

Don't be sorry about asking questions B


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