# 2nd lethargic, sickly angel



## hbeth82 (Jul 1, 2009)

I bought four angelfish for my 55gal community tank about two months ago. Several weeks back, I noticed one of them hanging out near the surface, not eating and trailing white feces. I offer peas every week but the angels don't seem to care for them so I thought it might be constipation, moved the angel to QT and treated with epsom salt. But a few days later he was dead. Today I noticed a second angel doing the same thing (trying to stay hidden, lethargic, ignoring food, white feces). Water parameters are good & the other two angels seem to be doing fine.

Should I try treating this newest illness as parasitic rather than digestive? What should I use for treatment?


----------



## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Not much of an expert on Angels.

But I did find this for you.

*Flagellates*
Protozoans such as these cause persistent trouble in situations where angelfish are stressed. Hexamita is one that is very prevalent. It is thought to be present in all angelfish, at least in small numbers, and an outbreak is what you're trying to prevent. It appears to explode in numbers if the fish are too crowded, overfed or being overly stressed by some other situation in the aquarium. Stressing your angelfish, is what you need to avoid. 
*Symptoms: *If the angelfish is still eating, they will pass a white, chalky feces. Appetite will decrease. No external symptoms will appear on the angelfish. They are prone to secondary infections of bacteria and other parasites when in this weakened condition. 
*To cure*, relieve stress and then raise the tank temperature to 95Ã‚Â° F for 7-10 days and medicate with metronidazole, or a medicated food that contains it.

http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleCare3.htm


----------



## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

I'd agree with most of above except for the 95' temp. And I say that only because I've never heard of raising the temp THAT high. It may work but I can't personally recommend it.

You need to treat the entire tank as it sounds like your Angels have bloat,(which may in fact be the same thing as Hexamita--flagellates that normally reside in your fish's intestine without causing any harm suddenly increase in number and overwhelm the fish when the fish is stressed--it typically affects one fish at a time with a few days to a few weeks between fish)

I would start out with a large partial water change and gravel siphoning. (If you haven't done a water change in more than a couple weeks then do two smaller partial water changes separated by a couple of hours) Then treat the entire tank with metronidazole. If you can find Jungle Parasite Clear, that will work however Jungle has been taken over by another company and I'm sorry, I just can't remember the name of it at the moment. :roll: (It has similar packaging to the Jungle Parasite clear--I believe it is the very same product)
Look for the ingredient, metronidazole.

Robin


----------



## BillD (May 17, 2005)

What you are seeing here is what I have lost most of my angels with over the years. I have tried different treatments and haven't had any success. The fish show no symptoms, but hang in a corner and stop eating. They may or may not have white feces, since they aren't eating. You could try something like Jungle Parasite clear, or a good antibiotic such as Kanamyacin, but I suspect it may be viral, in which case the treatment won't work. 
While I haven't heard of 95F for angels, I have for discus. There is a long time discus keeper (50 years) who spoke at our club who treats discus plague by lowering the pH to 3.5 and heating to 95 F. It cures the fish in 3 days. The difficult part is to accurately lower the pH to 3.5.


----------



## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Well by the sounds you might be better trying to raise the temp if Bill has had little luck.

If it was me, I would do it sooner rather then later while they are still strong enough to pull through the temp rise.

Make sure you increase airation when doing it thou.


----------



## hbeth82 (Jul 1, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Since Nodalizer mentioned stress possibly being a major contributing factor is it okay to leave the sick angel in the main tank & turn up the temp for everyone, or should I move him in QT? I have two HOB filters, so I'm thinking of taking some water out of the tank & increasing the flow on the filters to keep the oxygenation up. For treatment, I have epsom salt, Kanaplex, Maracin Plus, & Parasite Guard - is any this likely to help or should I stick with turning up the water temp?

Thanks


----------



## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

No, you should do all of the since you cannot be sure the others are not the same.

You was just lucky one of your fish showed symptoms.


----------



## hbeth82 (Jul 1, 2009)

Thanks for the advice all. I got up this morning and found that the angel had died overnight. Right now the water temp is about 80, should I keep raising into the low 90's to hopefully ward-off problems among the other fish or should I turn it back a bit?

Thanks


----------



## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

So both the sick fish are dead now ? 

Its a tough decision, are the other fish showing any signs of being sick ? There may be a good chance that with 2 fish less the other two are less likely to be stressed and may be ok. But yeah, with them dying as fast as they are when they do get sick...

What else you got in that tank ? Are they hardy fish, or will the high temp likely have a big impact on them too ?


----------



## hbeth82 (Jul 1, 2009)

Yep, lost two of the original four fish in about 2 months  The other two angels seem to be doing fine, but then the one that died last night also seemed to be doing fine until this past Wednesday. I also have 4 Bolivian Rams, 8 cory cats, 5 black skirt tetras, a stray feeder guppy & a BN pleco (the terror of the tank). Would all of these likely be okay with higher water temps as long as I can keep it well oxygenated?

I've heard that angels should be kept in groups of three or more to cut down on one aggressive fish always targeting the same weaker fish, but I'm also hesitant to get more fish that don't seem to last long  Any thoughts on prevention?


----------



## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Some would, some wouldn't ,I would say prob move them to a seperate tank if you wanna try the temp rise.


----------



## Gino Santangelo (Nov 26, 2008)

There has been a problem since the early 80's. No real answers that I know of. If you find out anything more please share.

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/20 ... virus.html

http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleCare2.htm


----------



## hbeth82 (Jul 1, 2009)

So do you think this is kind of a reason to avoid the species?


----------



## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

hbeth82 said:


> So do you think this is kind of a reason to avoid the species?


Oh I doubt he is saying that, just putting another possible cause out for you.


----------



## Gino Santangelo (Nov 26, 2008)

In my own experience I left my tank devoid of angels for a time and then aquired some from a local breeder at the fish club. They are just fine and its been several years now.


----------



## hbeth82 (Jul 1, 2009)

Is bright red feces, in diameter about the same size as his eye, normal for an angel? Also, has anyone ever noticed this problem being 'spread' to other cichlids? Just fed everybody frozen brine shrimp and have noticed at least three of my four rams spitting out the food. Leaving town for several days tomorrow and I'm not sure what to do about any of this.

Thanks for the advice everyone


----------

