# Please Help!



## MikeM (Feb 8, 2009)

Okay, so here's my story. Was away at University for the past 3 weeks, while the new tank (90 Gal 4') was fishless cycling with Ammonia being added each day (1.5 teaspoons). I Had my LFS holding the fish for me for 3 weeks as they were ordered just for me - but he needed them gone last night.

Problem 1 - Tank wasn't fully cycled...ammonia read 0, but still nitrites and nitrates.
Solution - added a ton of used filter-floss from an establishes tank to my Fluval 404 and then took more used-media and squeezed all the "gunk" into my tank.
----I hopped for a "instant" or, atleast, quick cycle finish.
Now however, nitrites and nitrates are still present.

Problem 2 - I just noticed this morning that one of the female polits had some white spots on her sides and dorsal fin. It then followed that a few more fish had the same white spots.
Solution - I was convinced it was Ich, so bought Super Ich Cure by API and added a dose after a water change. However, now that I look at it, it seems to be more like tiny spots of white fuzz.

Is this not ich? And if not, what are my options? I'm so frustrated with myself. It all started out carefully planned and now seems to be falling apart  ...please help if you can! Sorry for the rant, if you need more info to,hopefully, help me, just ask...

Temp. - 80F

Stock List:
1m/4f Cynotilapia Afra "Chimate"
1m/4f BluexRed Zebra
1m/4f Ps. Polit
1 Albino BN Pleco

No pics right now, will try to get some decent ones tomorrow morning.


----------



## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

Perhaps columnaris?
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disea ... mnaris.htm


----------



## MikeM (Feb 8, 2009)

That's a possibility I guess...ugh it's so hard to tell what's what. The spots started on the female polit - right above her eyes, then one on her side, and it looks like she has some on the tips of her dorsal fin. One of the Afras has a bit on his dorsal fin too...

Should I put in carbon to remove the Ich Meds? then what should I get instead?

I just don't know! :-? I hope I can get this under control before I start losing fish..


----------



## fancy diver (Mar 21, 2009)

Im so sorry to hear that. Sounds like(if i got the story right) the fish had whatever illness theyre showing effects of now, but your tank conditions are a bit stressfull now(doesnt help). I would get the cold/frozen bio-spira from tour LFS in the morning. All that schmutz from the filter floss might not be great though. I would think to do a partial water change(condition water before adding).When you get the bio spira also purchase some cycle or seachem stability to promote bio colonization(i used to put it right in my filter bio balls). In terms of the meds i dont want to say for sure that you should use them(seems like it would up the stress fish are in now) Let one of the moderators help you on that one.

Dont get discouraged by this incident, it sounds like you know what's going on(learning lesson) 
Hope everything works out :fish:


----------



## MikeM (Feb 8, 2009)

yeah, I'm kind of trying to fight 2 battles at the same time, and when I try to help one, it hurts the other (water changes to reduce nitrite levels gets rid of the meds) UGH.

I wish I was better at diagnosing this. I just turned the heater down a bit in case it is columnaris, I dont want it to spread quickly over night.


----------



## fancy diver (Mar 21, 2009)

Nah man.your changing too many conditions too much(will add to stress!!). Keep the heat at a constant for now. You could add carbon to take out those meds and very slowly add aquarium salt( easier on the fish than meds for now)


----------



## MikeM (Feb 8, 2009)

I just checked on them this morning, and noticed my male polit in breeding dress, shaking for all of the females....at least he seems happy! lol

They all seem to be happy and swimming fine...Wondering if I should stop the Ich treatment and go for aquarium salt, or just finish the Ich treatment then see how it looks...I'm just scared that it might be columnaris, but it just seems to be little spots right now..


----------



## MikeM (Feb 8, 2009)

Here's a video of the female polit with the most "spots"..maybe this will help! ( I Couldn't get a decent pic)...


__
https://flic.kr/p/3473357588


----------



## MikeM (Feb 8, 2009)

after reading some articles description of columnaris, i think that may be what it is unfortunately...so given my current position...what steps should I follow to nip this thing in the butt? Not all fish appear to be infected, just 2 or 3.

The most cost-effective method would be idea, as money is kind of short right now...

(if you think it's something else, by all means, suggest it!)


----------



## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

Looks like fungus or perhaps columnaris. Might try using Fungus Clear by Jungle products. It is supposed to treat both fungus and bacterial infections.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... catid=4825


----------



## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Have the spots changed any since you first noticed them? Gotten larger? Developed raw red areas anywhere on the fish? Are all fish eating at every feeding? 
Hard to say whether or not its Columnaris and Columnaris comes in differents strains. Some will kill a fish over night and some will take a week or more. 
If you're certain that it's NOT ich then I would focus on water quality improvement with daily or every other day partial water changes of 30-40%. And you could also add more salt. If however you notice that the white spots are getting larger faster or there are red raw areas then you'll need to switch to an anti-biotic ASAP. (Salt baths might also be an option for you)
Make sure you're using a *good quality declorinator*. don't skimp here especially where you've got cycling issues. Go with something like Seachem Prime or Amquel Plus. You need a declorinator that removes ammonia and detoxifies nitrite.

Aquairium salt: (sodium chloride) 1-2 Tablespoons per five gallons. The salt will help detoxify nitrite and it will also help prevent the spread of bacteria and fungus by not allowing the bacteria and fungus to attach to the fish's skin. *Cheap salt:* at the grocery store look for Kosher Salt or Pickling Salt. 
Make sure you dissolve the salt first and add it gradually over several hours time. When you do water changes re-add the correct amount of salt to compensate for the salt that was removed with the water change, (ie: if you've got 2T per five gallons in the tank and you remove 20 gallons with the water change re-add 8T of salt.)

_Nitrates_ are normal in a cycled tank. 
How high are your _nitrites? _
What kind of test kit are you using?
How are the fish? Eating and swimming normally?

Robin


----------



## MikeM (Feb 8, 2009)

Lets see if I can answer all of your questions here.

Nitrite levels are still high, along with nitrate. I'm using the liquid drop tests - they are only a couple weeks old.

I'm using AquaPlus dechlorinator (by Hagen I think)...but I am going out to by some Prime this afternoon hopefully to help with the nitrate/nitrite levels.

Fish seem very happy, as far as I can tell, all are eating normally and swim around happily (the male polit is trying to breed with the females, the seem interested, then just swim away).

I am going to do some water changes (50% in a couple minutes) and add the dechlorinator I have right now - will add the Prime this afternoon once I get it.

There are no red-ish spots or anything, and the spots seem to be staying the same size.

Need anything else???

Thanks for the assistance - I will try doing water changes and adding salt.


----------



## fancy diver (Mar 21, 2009)

Prime is really good. It will only detoxify the nitrite/nitrate, not remove it. work on getting the bio-filter stronger w/ cycle or stability. But this sounds serious so i would go for frozen bio-spira which will show more immediate effects.


----------



## MikeM (Feb 8, 2009)

So! did a 40% water change. Added fresh water with a gap to allow for more surface agitation from the filter output. Then added 9 capfulls of Cycle, and ~2 capfulls of Seachem Prime and 3 Tablespoons of dissolved Kosher Salt..will add another 3 tablespoons in about 1.5 hours. Then turned off the lights to help reduce stress.

Hopefully this treatment does the trick! I'll do another 40-50% water change tomorrow afternoon and hopefully things will be alright! I'll test chemical levels and post in about an hour or so.

Thanks for the help everyone! Hope this fixes my issues.


----------



## fancy diver (Mar 21, 2009)

I would up the aeration(air stone) I recently heard from that australian guy on the new instructional dvd that filter outputs cant be relied on to aerate the water due to the filtration process turning 02 to c02.


----------



## MikeM (Feb 8, 2009)

Makes sense I guess, it's all I can afford right now, i have the water down low, so hopefully from new water touching oxygen it'll get the job done for now. I'll try to get an air-pump and air-stone this week. Adding the 13th tablespoon of salt now before bed.


----------



## MikeM (Feb 8, 2009)

The original female Polit is looking better, the white spots aren't as pronounced now (more of a dull-white color), and no other fish seem to have any signs of it anymore. So I think the water changes, Salt and Prime are doing the trick. I'll keep with the salt a couple days after the signs of whatever it was is gone.


----------

