# New tank need input I'm just lost



## misskitty (Feb 3, 2010)

I have a 55 gallon tank with a huge marineland penguine 350 biofilter. In this tank I have some, flagstone, a few plants (not real), a bubble bar on back and gravel on the bottom. I have 2 dempseys, 4 yellow cichlids and 2 black convicts in this tank. They are all about 2 to 3 inches. Every reading for this tank is within normal range except for the nh3. For some reason it keeps climbing. I have these things my husband got that are by mardel that live monitor the ph and nh3 levels. The ph is showing 7.8 and the nh3 is at 0.05 which according to this monitor indicates stress. The test strips however show the nh3 at a safe range. I thought it was the monitor maybe it was faulty so I changed and put in a new one as the first one read 0.10 which according to it was dangerous. I am so confused. the fish seem fine and actually my convicts have eggs lol! Can anyone help me here? I'm new to the fish keepers club and I don't want to kill these fish by doing something wrong or not doing something right.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Try a test kit with liquid reagents.


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## misskitty (Feb 3, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> Try a test kit with liquid reagents.


what is that?


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## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

misskitty said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> > Try a test kit with liquid reagents.
> ...


a type of test kit that uses liquid drops to give you water parameters. you mix aquarium water with a few drops of the chemicals, then compare the color it changes to the color on the charts.

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+4454&pcatid=4454


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They tend to be more accurate than strips or indicators. Pretty economical too, a master freshwater test kit will cover all your needs.


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## misskitty (Feb 3, 2010)

a type of test kit that uses liquid drops to give you water parameters. you mix aquarium water with a few drops of the chemicals, then compare the color it changes to the color on the charts.

ok i know what you mean. the fish shop I deal with uses this And he says the water is fine at a bright yellow. Which is what I just don't understand. I've dealt with the guy for years with my reptiles and gotten kittens from him and he has always been honest and fair with us. Are there any habitat recommendations? I have a picture of my tank but no idea how to put it up.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

But since you may have a problem and want to test daily (and not just one test...that bright yellow one is for ammonia if it is likemine) then you will want to purchase the test kits.

I have no advice on a combination of dempseys, convicts and labs. :thumb: Labs like a pH of 8.0 and a tank filled with rocks. Don't know what the others like as they are not from the same lake or even continent.


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Here is a post on how to post pictures.... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... t=21085.... I recommend photobucket.

To try and keep peace in you tank I would recommend caves on opposite sides of the tank (terracotta pots work great and are cheap), one area for the convicts and the other end for the Dempseys. Are the Dempseys a pair? If you can post pics of the dempseys we can try and tell their sex. In the long run this group of fish will not work out as dempseys get 8-10 inches and an adult breeding pair would need a minimum of a 55 gallon tank.

Your PH is fine for both the yellow labs and the central American cichlids. I am not sure on the various reading you are getting or what the decimal point system means. However, if you conclude or suspect a problem with nitrates (NO3) then increase water changes, which is the only way to remove nitrates.

Keep us updated.

Thanks,
Matt


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## misskitty (Feb 3, 2010)

ok i did a partial water change of about 20% (didn't change any filters or anything) I did this because when i woke up this morning the mh3 was at 0.10 again which indicates danger on the monitor. The tank is a little cloudy so hopefully the water change will help this whole problem. I have another tank that is cycling I will be putting the yellows in this weekend.

I am wondering if the flagstone could be causing the problem? I doubt it myself but the nh3 spike occurred after i put the stone in and before i put the yellows in. And I had added more flagstone and it seemed to get worse.


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## misskitty (Feb 3, 2010)

I will post pics here shortly but first I have other critters to tend to lol


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## misskitty (Feb 3, 2010)

I am posting pics of the readers on my tank so you better understand what I'm talking about. I am also posting pics of my tank. Understand these are done on my phone so hopefully they are of reasonable quality to be visible.










in this first pic is the one i'm having trouble with. the reading shows a danger level. I did do the partial water change but only about 20%. I also added some ammo lock according to the requirements on the bottle. Now I force cycled this tank adding a bottle of stuff my fish guy gave me that puts the necessary bacteria in the tank. I had to do what I could as I got these fish on the spur of the moment and no idea what to do with them. I didn't buy them my brother in law took his tank when he moved and was gonna flush the fish so hence I "rescued them" lol.

I have another tank a 30 gal that has no filter, has a bubble bar, gravel and some plants but is heated. It has one lonely little goldfish in it I thought was gonna die but didn't have the heart to flush him while still kicking. LOL started out with two little ones but one did die. Anyhow that tank got really cloudy for about two days then just cleared up almost overnight. That was weird and I just don't get that.

This







second pic is my ph monitor. the color is not showing well but it does exactly match the reading for 7.8 and has stayed steady at that reading with no change.

Here is a pic of the tank










and some of the fish what I could get of the ones not so shy lol






















































I have a little female Black convict about 2-3 inches and believe it or not SHE runs the tank. Even my largest male JD runs from her. She and her mate have taken over this little cave and already have eggs. I crack up watching these fish it is just too funny to see that JD male nearly three times her size running from her lmao!










Well at any rate I couldn't get pics of all the fish but I do have one male yellow for sure and two females the 4th I'm not so sure about. The JD's are a pair one male one female and the convicts are also a pair.


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

i have 2 emp 400s on my 55....i cant seem to see any reading on your meters....

is it me or is your tank uneven?


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## misskitty (Feb 3, 2010)

White Thunder said:


> i have 2 emp 400s on my 55....i cant seem to see any reading on your meters....
> 
> is it me or is your tank uneven?


no it is slightly uneven and it is the floor there is just nothing i can do about that lol. The readings go by color match. the nh3 is reading at 0.10 which is listed as danger and the ph is reading as 7.8

Everything else I check via other testing methods is coming out spot on where it should be but this ammonia reading. The tank is not really cloudy though either. I mean it is very slightly cloudy.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

at least buy some shims from home depot to level your tank or you may end up splitting a seam


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## misskitty (Feb 3, 2010)

well this monitor is now reading a toxic level for the nh3 but I'm seeing no behavior change and everything else is the same. I'm confused I have no idea what is causing this.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't think the monitors are reliable. It's hard to know how to proceed without accurate test readings.


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## misskitty (Feb 3, 2010)

one of my Malawi males is in stress. He is at the top of the water and staying there alot. He is up there for about 5 min then swims around and then back up top. He's actually straight up and down with his mouth at the surface of the water. My ph is dropping a bit too. It was at 7.8 now it is at 7.2. UGH! I am so worried about losing these fish. The readings for the nitrite and nitrate are dropping slightly but I'm afraid this little guy is not gonna make it.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

im assume this guy is not at the top of the tank due to aggression although only one fish in a top corner is most likely aggression.
anyway a waterchange will decrease your toxic levels and infuse some o2 into the water which is the other reason this guy would be at the top of the tank.
so do a waterchange now of 50% and see if that helps...get a good test kit or take a sample to your lfs and go from there


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## misskitty (Feb 3, 2010)

steelers fan said:


> im assume this guy is not at the top of the tank due to aggression although only one fish in a top corner is most likely aggression.
> anyway a waterchange will decrease your toxic levels and infuse some o2 into the water which is the other reason this guy would be at the top of the tank.
> so do a waterchange now of 50% and see if that helps...get a good test kit or take a sample to your lfs and go from there


Well it may be aggression but I spend a lot of time watching them just cuz I'm maniacal like that lol primarily because I have concerns about the tanks condition and I know fish can not only die rather suddenly but dead fish are not good for the tank if left too long. That being said I've not seen any aggression myself but who knows lol. I did do a water change and so far he is still the same though the others are quite spunky now since I did that. Those guys are EVERYWHERE! I am taking some water in tomorrow and will let you know what happens. Right now he is at the bottom hiding in a cave and still alive. His fins are tucked and his gil on the right side is going rather fast but the other side has no visible movement. You can just tell by looking at him he is stressed. All the other fish seem just fine from what I can see.

OH and also I wanted to ask about salt??? A friend of mine was telling me about adding salt she said something about one teaspoon per 5 gallons of water?? But these guys don't need any salt do they? And I know they like a higher PH then 7.2 but should I concern myself about raising the ph a bit? It is my understanding that the warmer the water and higher the PH the more toxic these levels become. Am I right or wrong. Sorry I'm such a pest but I am determined to get this right.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

if your ph is 7.2 right out of the tap i would not bother they can hang.

the only salt i use is epsom salt as a mild laxative.

regular table salt non-iodized is used to help heal wounds and restore slime coat. and the rate is 1 *tablespoon per 5 gallons added slowly over a few hours. it is also used in the treatment of ich.
otherwise no salt is needed of any kind

if you insist on raising the ph baking soda has a ph of 8.4 so you can try adding that at the same rate as the salt. try mixing some in a bucket to get the ratio and effect you want then tranfer that to the tank.

again none of these are needed unless theres a problem

remember alot can be fixed(aside from aggression) with very clean water(waterchanges). a good large waterchange is usually my first action if i suspect a problem.

hope this helps*


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The vertical position and place in the tank indicate aggression. It is often not seen.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

misskitty said:


> Now I force cycled this tank adding a bottle of stuff my fish guy gave me that puts the necessary bacteria in the tank.


Are you sure your tank has actually cycled? The bacteria in a bottle that you used does not have a very good reputation for actually working(with a few acceptions). Also, as far as I know you can't "force" a cycle, you can only take measures to speed it up. Even then it should take at least two weeks for it to completely cycle.

The rising ammonia levels make me think that your tank is still in the beginning stages of cycling. How long has the tank been up and running?

Also, those stick-on water parameter alerts are not very reliable. At least thats what I have heard, I've never actually tried them myself. I would suggest buying a test kit and testing your water daily until your tank is stable.


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## misskitty (Feb 3, 2010)

tokyo said:


> misskitty said:
> 
> 
> > Now I force cycled this tank adding a bottle of stuff my fish guy gave me that puts the necessary bacteria in the tank.
> ...


Yeah I'm not happy with these monitors AT ALL. This little fish is still hanging on so hopefully he will pull through. I did the water change last night, I added the salt per the amount suggested and did so over a period of 4 hours. Have NOT attempted the ph adjustment yet gonna wait a bit on that. I still don't think he's gonna make it but We'll see.

That's what I mean when I said forced the cycle lol again I am going by what my LFS told me to do. Not working out so well but persistence is key ya know? lol

The tank has been running about 2 1/2 weeks now. It's weird but everything seemed fine until the day after I put the flagstone in but I think it is just coincidence really. I wish I could get him out and isolate him but with all the stuff in the tank and the fact that when I did try to scoop him you'd swear he had rockets on his fins. He is no longer at the top he's just hanging out in the plants and behind rocks.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

misskitty said:


> Yeah I'm not happy with these monitors AT ALL. This little fish is still hanging on so hopefully he will pull through. I did the water change last night, I added the salt per the amount suggested and did so over a period of 4 hours. Have NOT attempted the ph adjustment yet gonna wait a bit on that. I still don't think he's gonna make it but We'll see.
> 
> That's what I mean when I said forced the cycle lol again I am going by what my LFS told me to do. Not working out so well but persistence is key ya know? lol
> 
> The tank has been running about 2 1/2 weeks now. It's weird but everything seemed fine until the day after I put the flagstone in but I think it is just coincidence really. I wish I could get him out and isolate him but with all the stuff in the tank and the fact that when I did try to scoop him you'd swear he had rockets on his fins. He is no longer at the top he's just hanging out in the plants and behind rocks.


I think what you need to do is just procede with this like any other "fish-in" cycle. Start doing water changes daily or at least every other day. Buy a test kit, even just the cheaper test strip style will be effective enough what what you need. Test your water regularly, keeping ammonia and nitrites below 0.25ppm by doing your water changes. Once you get your test results(ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate) post them so we can get an idea of how far along your cycle is.

As far as the one fish is concerned it sounds like it is just an issue of aggression. There a different ways to attempt to remedy this. Read this article to get an idea of what will work best for you. Although I will say that it is probably not a good idea to do any overstocking or feeding increases right now since you are still cycling. Although later on these could be options.


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

misskitty said:


> ..it is slightly uneven and it is the floor there is just nothing i can do about that..


 I know you're concentrating on resolving another problem now, however, an uneven floor can be even more damaging both to the fish, AND you. By having it slant as much as it is now (you can see in the picture its pretty noticeable), the water pressure isn't going to distribute the way it was designed and will put greater strain on one pane of glass. Down the road, you could potentially have a blow out.

I'd address that issue ASAP.


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