# old master again



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

hi everyone, in my previous thread i dicussed about feed that can keep the colors live and is best for african cichlid ,some how i managed to get the most branded and famous suggested feed ,I am feed this feed for nearly more than a month,but unable to get the colors back, instead they are getting worse and the beautiful rainbow turned into a 1 cent fish.are there any suggestions how to get the colors back. there must be many cichlid lovers facing the same problem. suggestions will be highly appreciated.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

What species are you keeping?

What are the male/female ratios of each species?

What are the dimensions of the tank?

What are the water parameters?

What is your usual tank maintenance routine?

There are many things that can cause a fish to lose it's colour. It isn't always food related.


----------



## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

More info would be helpful.

Also, never feed only one food--no matter how good, your fish need a varied diet. Quality foods are a very important factor--but they aren't the only factor.


----------



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

you are right i have a verity of diet but the matter is get the colors back, most of my fish are males im not intrested in breeding when purchasedthey were perfect. tank is not over crowded and every thing is fine, the thing is, is there any method of preparing a good feed for african cichlid bcz branded dosent work ijts just the name that dosent work.any proper advice kindly do let me know. :-?


----------



## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

*sodagar* we need the information that *cichlidaholic* is asking you or it will be hard to help....as said there are many reasons for color loss not just food.


----------



## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

This seems to easy. Go back to the old food if you think it was the fault of the food.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

oldcatfish said:


> Also, never feed only one food--no matter how good, your fish need a varied diet.


That's not true at all. One quality food is all you need. If you're feeding a quality food and still having problems with your fish's appearance, then it's time to consider other contributing factors.

Without more information from the OP, there's really nothing anyone can do to help.


----------



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

Ok my friends, here are the details:
(1)I have a 42 gallons tank.
(2)There are about 16 african cichlids .
(3) Few are Rainbow,two Demasoni,two Commando,two Yellow lions,two Albino and two 
dolphin.
(4)size of the fish is not more than 2 1/2 inches. when purchased especially rainbow had perfect colors.initially I was feeding higrade feed from Thiland.As the time passed the colors started getting dull. Then I became the member of this forum and came to know about Hikari cichlid feed which is the best (excel) for african.Some how I managed to get it ,and started feeding ,but unfortunately things didnt went positively, and colors were getting dull.And fish looked as a one cent fish.
So I decided to share my problem with my forum mates. One more thing I want to add before a question rises is there is no was among them, they arr well setteled except for small chases which is always there in fish.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

What are the exact _dimensions_ of the tank?

The foot print of the tank is the most important aspect in housing cichlids. They are highly territorial and choose up 'pieces' of this footpring as their own.

Demasoni should never be kept in pairs. They should be kept as single fish of a species or in groups of 10-12 minimum, because of their conspecific aggression.

None of these are pairing fish. They are all harem breeders, meaning each male of a species requires multiple females.

Your tank is small, your stock list is not good at all, so these are likely your problem areas that are causing your fish to lose colour. Your fish are maturing sexually, and problems will increase as this happens. If the "dolphins" are C. moorii, they belong in a much larger tank.

I would like to know scientific names for the "rainbow, albino and Commando" cichlids.

Depending on the dimensions of the tank, you might pull off a group of demasoni and the Yellow labs...

It's not your food. It's your choices. :thumb:


----------



## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

im thinking the comando is either nimbo Livingstoni or venustus....which again are far too big for a tank this size.


----------



## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

not trying to be rude but you are making helping you next to impossible.. trust me *** been in the same situation.. just answer verbatim what cichlidaholic is asking you and chances are he'll have a solution


----------



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

Thanks jfy for joining the thread. what friends are saying is one of the factor but not with me ,I have no problem with fish living togather.As far as colors are concern there is some thing mixed in the feed in some percentage to enhance the colors, Iam 100% sure about that, now which feed has this thing I dont know that. I was recomended at this forum for excel and also the manufacturer recomended the same, so I went for it but found no result. Now I would like to ask cichlidaholic
if not this feed then which one?.And Iwould also like to inform that my fish importer prepares its own feed,I have tried this feed in small extent few times during this period and believe me this feed recovers the color in few days this is my practical experiance. Now there are two things besides this .1. is I dont know how good and healthy is the feed for fish in long terms. 2. is he says I prepare this feed for my own use its not for sale, but you can have some to get the colors back.Now what you people do to manage the colors of african cichlid of my type.


----------



## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

The fish may have been hormoned, 2.5" is a bit small for a lot of fish to color up fully.


----------



## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

*sodagar*. regardless of what you feed coloration will not improve if the tank is too small and stress levels are high due to poor species selection.
These are issues you have to address before food is considered to be the cause.
You will be disappointed to learn that no matter what food you give them thier coloration will remain unchanged.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

jfly said:


> just answer verbatim what cichlidaholic is asking you and chances are he'll have a solution


Would you be terribly surprised to know that I am a "she"? :wink:


----------



## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

This is my second year on the forum and I have seen *cichlidaholic* correct the "he" assumption a few times now.


----------



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

My good friends you are correct but for a moment just forget about it (correct me if Iam wrong)
suppose every thing is idle,cichlid is a fish which looses color if regular feed is given (african)
then which feed is the best to recover the color and is good for all time. Just answer this question,


----------



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

there may be thousands of people facing the same problem. i think the solution of this subject is very important amongst fish lovers!!! :fish:


----------



## Louis123 (Jun 13, 2004)

Sodagar,

Its not so much about what you feed them that makes the fish look nice, it's all about the level of stress and the water quality. In my opinion you are feeding a very good product, you could try feeding other brands but I'm not sure it will work.

But since you want some other suggestions you can try NLS (New Life Spectrum)


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

> then which feed is the best to recover the color and is good for all time. Just answer this question,


It doesn't matter what you feed them when you're housing them inappropriately. :roll:

You just aren't getting it at all.

You can _try_ NLS.

You can _try_ Dainichi.

You can feed them prime rib if you want to...

But it's not going to change anything for your fish.

You were already feeding them a fine food with the Hikari.

While you're experimenting with foods, they will most likely kill each other. At 2 1/2 inches, they are just beginning to sexually mature. This is why they are intimidating each other and losing their colour.

AND...Your tank is far too small for the fish you are keeping.

They are stressed out fish, but they are dependent on you to take care of them properly. There's nothing they can do to help themselves.



> there may be thousands of people facing the same problem. i think the solution of this subject is very important amongst fish lovers!!!


_Yes, there are thousands of people who try to keep cichlids inappropriately._ They usually take advice and rectify the problems when they realize what they are.

You're really underestimating the aggression level and intimidation factor of these fish, as well as the effects stress will have on them.

You've got your food recommendations, and you've got advice on how to solve the actual problem, which is NOT food related.

Good luck to you, and to your fish.


----------



## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

*for the love of god what are the dimensions man*


----------



## trigger (Sep 6, 2002)

Ok, I got three questions...

1 what is the lenght of the tank ?
2 what is the width of the tank ?
3 what is the height of the tank ?


----------



## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

? cm X ? cm X ? cm


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

How long have you had these fish?


----------



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

Thanks friends for suggestion,and thanks cichlidaholic for your blessings,I do believe what you are saying is absolutely correct and im not underestimating it, but this problem does not exist in my tank. I can say that Iam a lover of birds, animals,fish and women since my child hood and Im having atleast one thing upto till .I still have atleast 100 pairs of lovebirds and a fish tank.Iexactly know the moves taken by a bird or a fish is aggresive or not and is it ok or sick.And I tell you there is no stress amongst them.I can say Iam lucky this time!!!.
My other friends you want dimensions so here it is.
H =30 inches, W= 30 inches, W= 18 inches. Iam having cichlids for atleast three to four months now. The water quality of water is good in my area, and also I have a storage tank of 750 liters, I always have this much of water in spare, and chlorine effects are finished, I regularly change 60% of the water on weekly basis,My fish are healthy active and growing fast as well the problem is with colors.*** been advised by the master for feed , Idont think I can get this feed in my market that I have to import and try my luck.


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

One major problem in many parts of the world, and it seems commonly in Asia, is that fish can be hormoned. The distributors do this as it makes the fish much more colourful in the stores, though this is but temporary.

So people can purchase fish that look very colourful, and in a matter of sometimes days, weeks or months the colour will fade. That colour will come back in time, if the fish are males, but that could take months. This has nothing to do with food at all.

I am not saying that is exactly what has happened in your case, but it is a high probability.


----------



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

Yes, you are correct,I know this thing happens most of the time but what I do is the day the fish arrives at the shop ,I usally go and have a look around and what I find interesting I buy that.These fish are imported from Thiland which I thiink is the largest exporter of fish and the shopkeeper hardly finds any time to feed any thing special, even if he does fish cannot change color in an hour or few hours.So I think its not that case either.I have searched the fourms profile quite a few times but have found no difference between my fish and the pictures shown in the profile.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

This doesn't mean that the breeder isn't hormoning the fish, sodagar, before the LFS ever gets them.

I still don't think this is your problem, though, although it's certainly suspect with Asian fish.


----------



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

Ok I believe that ,then tell how you people are managing to have such good colors in your own tank, secondly when fish imported in your own town how good there colors are?. Are they harmoned or not I think they are bcz cichlid is loved bcz of its unique colors .During this session of dicussion I insisted my fish seller to prepare some feed for me, and finally he agreed and gave me 250 gms of his prepared feed its been one week now that Iam feed this feed and believe me I got 60% of the colors back.As far as Iam cocerned i love to breed fish as i use to do in my childhood with other fish at that time I never knew the name of cichlid.Now I cant do so bcz the nature of my business is very sensitive and I dont have extra time. I like to have fish of different colors I dont care weather they are males or females,all i know is i must have fish in the tank so that I can fresh up my brain. Dont you think there will be hundreds of people of my thought that they must have fish of attractive colors,knowing nothing about fish. Kindly dont compare me with them, I know something but I cant follow every thing. there must be some good feed that can do some miracle and keep the colors alive.


----------



## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

I understand you have now obtained some of this feed and you claim to have immediately noticed improved coloration.
The fact that they color up so quickly in such a short duration of time is concerning.
It seems to me that the chances of this food being hormoned is very likely.

I say this because you bought the fish from this person as bright colored.
They then began to lose coloration some time after you had them.
He gives you feed and they now regain coloration immediately.
Does this not seem strange to you?

To me it seems impossible to simply use a feed and in less than a week see dramtic improvement in coloration.
If your fishes were fed poorly and then fed a high quality food then I may predict such an outcome.
However, you say your fish are healthy but colors have been lost.
With all variable being consistent this just can not be.


----------



## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

lol seems like a total miscommunication going on here .. sorry i know you just want your fish to look beautiful but stress does effect a fish drastically i have a firemouth that looks like a frikn midas cause its the onlyin the tank an every now an thenstarts to get its black back an slight red but goes away id have to transfer it to another tank for a while in order for its color to come back

cause i have a baby tank full of 16 malawis an 2 fronts an 1 of the 16 is an adult male auratus an a juvie con (the con is beautiful yellow tail in blue gil an underside an rid ribcage an its gorgeous) they are in a 40 gal grow out tank almos all the fish are 1 inch theree quite enough space for them total of 20-21 fish that includes the 3 plecos but once they get larger the color will fade eventually if the tank isnt limited to a certain amount .

so you can either start up a whole new tank cycle it an transfer some fish into it then feed them high quality color enhacing food an watch the color stsrt to conme back or just cross your fingers an try new food n see hat happens 
best of luck i know its hard to part with fish anhard to spend extra money on them ast times


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

> ,then tell how you people are managing to have such good colors in your own tank, secondly when fish imported in your own town how good there colors are?.


Any fish is going to be stressed immediately following shipping of any distance. A stressed fish doesn't have as nice of colour as a fish that isn't stressed.

The wild caught cichlids that we have access to here have amazing colour, and are not given any hormones. I'm sure their colour isn't so great when they first arrive, but if they are housed properly in clean water and fed a quality food, that changes very quickly.

Quality bred tank raised specimens are equally nice in appearance.



> Are they harmoned or not I think they are bcz cichlid is loved bcz of its unique colors .


I've never purchased a cichlid from a breeder or LFS that uses hormones on them.

You're missing the whole point here.

_If they come from good stock, are kept in a non stressful situation, and have good health, they're going to have good colour. _

Subdominant fish will have less appealing colouration than dominant fish. Overly stressed fish will have less appealing colour than non stressed fish.

I really, really think you're not taking all the factors into consideration, and basing too much of this on the food. Good food is important, but there are far too many other factors that can cause a fish to lose it's colour to place the importance that you are placing on food.



> During this session of dicussion I insisted my fish seller to prepare some feed for me, and finally he agreed and gave me 250 gms of his prepared feed its been one week now that Iam feed this feed and believe me I got 60% of the colors back.


Then I agree that you are feeding them hormoned food - if there have been no stock changes in the tank.



> Dont you think there will be hundreds of people of my thought that they must have fish of attractive colors,knowing nothing about fish. Kindly dont compare me with them, I know something but I cant follow every thing.


Yes, there are many people who want attractive colours in their aquariums, but there are many ways to achieve this.



> there must be some good feed that can do some miracle and keep the colors alive.


FOOD ALONE IS NOT GOING TO "KEEP THE COLORS ALIVE".


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Pick up one of Ad Konings cichlid books...

Take a look at the pictures he has inside these books. _The pictures are made of the fish IN the actual lake they live in._

Do you believe hormones are pumped into the lake?

Do you believe NLS or Hikari or Dainichi is dumped into the lake by helicopter daily?


----------



## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

Fellow fish friend, I've been following this thread for some time now.. Everyone here is genuinely trying to help you. These are very knowledgeable people and can find the solution very quickly to most problems..

I have been in your situation many many times, and I found for me, it took humility to learn from those who have more experience and follow their advice, even though I didn't understand. That was the whole reason why I went to them for advice. :wink:

What would be the point of going to a teacher to learn something, and at the end, turn around and refuse to believe what you were told and went with what you already know? Then there would be no advancement... 

It seems that most are in agreement that your tank is simply too small for all the fish you have and is causing stress, which in turn is causing the colours to lessen. I sense you want to hear from people here that there is some miricle food, or some sickness that you can cure to bring the colours back, but I'm affraid that is impossible...


----------



## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

cichlidaholic said:


> Do you believe NLS or Hikari or Dainichi is dumped into the lake by helicopter daily?


this really made me laugh :lol: ....would be a site to see


----------



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

I exactly know what You guys are trying to explain me, and you are correct technically. and I also believe that you guys are highly experianced ,and are masters in fish thats why I have joined this forum, what *** understood is that cichlid fish posseses color by it self no need to give hormons as additives for color it is stress due to which fish looses color, just give them good feed , similar expriance I have in love birds,and I know that you cant keep personatas with cynamons,but I have done that as well. I have also seen a bitch feeding a kitten ,just hang on Ill send you the pictures of my tank as many you want.Fortunately I dont have this problem as yet, and there may be hardly any stress , some chase can also occur in the lake as well, thats it ,just think so many warriors and terrorist in a small tank for three ,four months what a war must be going on, and every fish would be damaged and injured but there is no such thing .The most important issue is this hormoned feed harmful for fish or its not harmful.


----------



## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

there does not have to be damage to fins and such for a fish to fell threatened to the point where they dull down their colors to avoid being harrassed


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

> The most important issue is this hormoned feed harmful for fish or its not harmful.


Yes, it is harmful to the internal organs of your fish.

And you can't tell by looking in the tank if your fish are stressed. You just have to use the information that you've obtained within this thread to know that it is a very HIGH probability that they ARE stressed.

_These fish DO have magnificent colouring, if they are quality specimens kept in the manner they need to be kept in. This includes proper stocking, clean water, ample space and a decent food. If you have to use hormoned food to keep their colouration, then you're doing something else wrong. _


----------



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

Ok if so much advised ill reduce that feed to weekly basis,up to till every thing is fine and i hope it remains fine in future as well. If the fish is stressed the fear in the movement can be seen .


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

sodagar said:


> If the fish is stressed the fear in the movement can be seen .


*This is not true, sodagar.*

The first sign of a stressed fish is almost always loss of colour. They do this in an effort to fly under the radar of more dominant fish.

But unfortunately, we don't seem to be getting through to you, so I really don't know what else to say in this matter.

Good luck to you and to your fish!


----------



## sodagar (May 19, 2009)

My Dear Friend thankyou very much. Hang out ill send the pictures next month. Time will tell what Iam doing is right or wrong. :fish:


----------

