# Bolivian and German Blue Rams



## bolson (Jan 5, 2009)

We have a 29 gallon tank with pretty heavy plantings, some driftwood and a couple of clay pots for caves. Is it possible to successfully keep both GBRs and Bolivians together in this size tank? If so or if not so, what are the suggested numbers and sexes of each species. We have 4 juli corycats a BN Pleco and will probably add 6 -8 cardinal tetras.

BTW, we are quite new to the hobby and really enjoy watching the two bolivians we have now but certainly need the advice of all the experts out there.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

All the experts,...ooops! :lol:

Well I'm no expert but I do have some expirience with Bolivians.

At first,.....Ramirezi = Ram or German Ram, are the more demanding delicate fish. They require clean warm water ( 28C / 86F) and have the same needs as discus. Not the best choice if your new to the hobby. Besides that they do have diferent needs compared to your other fish. You would have to make compromises for all the fish and thats not a good position especially becouse your new to the hobby.

My advice is not to add GBR to your curent tank. I rather would add 2 or 3 more Bolivians and skip the tetras. Once your more experienced and thinking abouth a second tank you might want to try the GBR.

Sorry probably not the answer you hoped for but I have to be honnest with you and give proper advice.

Ruurd


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## DCguy (Mar 9, 2008)

I also would recommend against adding the blue rams. In my experience the two species do not do well together. You could probably add a couple more bolivians if you want but if you have a pair that you enjoy watching you might consider stopping here and adding the cardinals.

DC


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## bolson (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks, the advice sounds like what I expected. We attempted GBRs and really enjoyed them... for the 2 weeks until they bellied up.

Currently, I believe we have two males. Would it be wise to add maybe 3 females or stay with more males? I love the mouth to mouth wrestling, I'm trying to talk my wife into some of that


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Dutch Dude said:


> Well I'm no expert but I do have some expirience with Bolivians.
> Ruurd


Ruurd's too modest. He and Blair would have to have an arm wrestle to see which of the two is number one on C-F when it comes to knowledge about Bolivian rams. Ed would be a close third. You may find an article or two about Bolivian rams written by any of the three of them in the C-F library section.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> Currently, I believe we have two males. Would it be wise to add maybe 3 females or stay with more males? I love the mouth to mouth wrestling, I'm trying to talk my wife into some of that


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Imo Bolivians do best in small groups of 5 or more. Your tank is on the limit if it comes to floorspace but if you add a lot of territorial markers and create sight breaks (lots of plants) 5 Bolivians will be doable. In a small group it is of les importance what the male female ratio is. If it was my tank I would add 5 females so you can end up with 2 couples. Bolivians are easy to spawn and when they do they even show more of their funny social behaviour. It is also nice to have some youngsters and have the experience of grow them out.



> We attempted GBRs and really enjoyed them... for the 2 weeks until they bellied up.


 Unfortunately most GBR are of a poor qualety and didn't receive the care they need. Most important are good nutrition, very clean water and the high temps. GBR are just like Discus susceptible for flaggelates when conditions are poor. Flagellates can couse HITH and Bloat for example and those illnesses are hard to treat. They are beautiful fish but if they don't receive the conditions they need they indeed belly up quickly. GBR is a poor choice to start with and is one of the more challenging fish. Bolivians are just perfect for people new to the hobby becouse they are hardier and also show interesting social behaviour. They aren't as strong colored as the GBR but they compensate in behaviour,....especially in a small group.[/quote]


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## bolson (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks for all the input Dutch Dude.

We have only had the 2 Bolivians for almost 2 days. They appear to be quite healthy but are fairly darker in color than some of the pics I have seen on these forums. Also, they seem to have what I think are referred to as "stress" markings. What do I need to know about this and when do they go away?


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## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

when they arent stressed anymore 

give them plenty of territory markers like plants, driftwood, and giive them time to settle in.


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## flemming (Mar 3, 2010)

they were in the same tank at petsmart the GBR and the Bolivian Rams


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Which means almost NOTHING. 
Hang around an LFS long enough and seeing all of the poorly kept fish for sale that die in those tanks, might surprise you.


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