# fishless cycle, too much nitrite?



## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

Hi there, I am trying a fishless cycle for the first time, I have no interest in discussing the merits of fishless vs. conventional cycling, this is more a practical question for anyone that has tried the fishless method. I am at an interesting juncture where I have Oppm ammonia ( tank will consume about 12ml of ammonia in about 8 hrs.), However the nitrite spike is HUGE, off the charts on strip test, harder to read using master test kit, but reads 5+, the interesting thing is that the nitrates are high as well. Does this mean that the tank is cycled, and that the ammonia was too high causing a high ammonia spike? or could there b another explanation as to the high nitrite levels? could i just do a 90% water change and be done with it? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, sorry for long post


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## Hangs (Aug 17, 2009)

you should probably tell them your tank specs, what you have in the tank, and or anything out of the ordinary. Im doing a fishless cycles first time as well but im only at the 9th day. I have around 4 ppm ammonia with no nitrite showing yet. Also what day of cycling are you on?


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

we have a 72g bow-front, with about 40-50 lbs of lace rock, and some fake plants. tap water is at about 7.5 ph, o nitrates from tap. no fish in tank as of yet. Added clear ammonia to start cycle, until reaching 5ppm +/-, ammonia is now cycling fine, nitrite is high (5ppm+ after 50% water change), and nitrate is high as well (120 ppm +/-).


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## Hangs (Aug 17, 2009)

did your nitrite levels ever fall to zero? or is it just constantly staying high?


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

we are 20 days in, but I think we added too much amm. starting off due to shotty, old test kit, which I think in turn made the nitrite spike much bigger than it should have been, however the presence of high levels of nitrate, I believe the tank has cycled, and just hasnt caught up with the nitrite yet, or at least this is what I hope.


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## Hangs (Aug 17, 2009)

i think your right on with the water change then. but you should wait longer to get more opinions, good luck


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

Thanks, good luck to you too! :thumb:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

The nitrate test is misleading. Most nitrate tests actually give total of nitrite + nitrate by first converting nitrate to nitrite. So any nitrite already in the sample would be added. You high nitrite reading is normal. You can do a water change to cut it a bit, no harm, but you don't need to. The high level isn't a problem. I never do the water changes, but again, no harm either way.

Most importantly, your tank is NOT cycled. Don't be fooled. Ignore the nitrate reading and don't even test for it until nitrite reaches 0 within 24 hours of adding ammonia. It may take a while. Up to 3 weeks if you haven't seeded the tank with bacteria in any way.

Don't overthink it. It's hard NOT to successfully cycle. You don't need to do anything more to make it cycle, and it'd be really hard to not make it cycle. Just keep adding ammonia daily and wait it out.

You added 12ml of ammonia, but no way for me to tell the percentage that it brought it up to usually expressed in ppm. Add enough to get a reading of 1-3ppm of ammonia about 15 minutes or so after adding. What level is enough depends on what you intend to stock with initially. If lightly stocking, lean toward 1ppm. If heavier, go more towards 3ppm. More than that should never be necessary.

HTH


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

That is GREAT information! Thanks for the advice! So by adding ammonia to read between 1-3ppm daily is sufficient? It seems to be consuming about 2ppm per 8-10hrs. Should I be adding more frequently to keep the ammonia level up at the 2ppm range? Or will this prolong the nitrite spike? Thanks again for the great info! :thumb:


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## K20Z3 (Jul 18, 2008)

My fishless cycle is in the same boat. My tank will get rid of the ammonia within 24 hours, but my nitrite is off the chart. I have a 72 bowfront as well and I'm adding 5ml of ammonia every other day just to keep those bacteria fat and happy.

Everyone keeps telling me that the nitrite will drop in time. I'm not even testing nitrate or doing any water changes as of now. I test every day and when all my numbers hit 0 after 24 hours then I'll do my water change and ready to add fish.


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## K20Z3 (Jul 18, 2008)

Double post


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## K20Z3 (Jul 18, 2008)

Triple Post WTF :-?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> So by adding ammonia to read between 1-3ppm daily is sufficient?


Yes



> It seems to be consuming about 2ppm per 8-10hrs.


That's good.



> Should I be adding more frequently to keep the ammonia level up at the 2ppm range?


No, only add every 24 hours. I usually pick a time of day and deal with it same time every day. No need to test more frequently or feed ammonia more frequently because it will just overwhelm the bacteria trying to convert nitrite. They'll probably never catch up. You'd never see nitrite at 0. When the bacteria can convert your ammonia dose first to nitrite, then to nitrate within 24 hours, you're cycled and ok to add fish.


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

Great info again, I appreciate the advice, In light of your comments I think I may have been overwhelming the growing bacteria colonies. I am going to back off to once a day and see how it goes. Thanks again!


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## Blu Lunch (May 27, 2009)

Wait it will go down I just finished a tall 40 last week. I made the mistake of way to much ammonia over 8pmm. I just left it alone 3 days later the ammonia was at 4ppm and I had nitrites starting. At 5 days I had to feed the tank because the ammonia was at 2ppm and the nitrites were off the chart, I fed the tank daily and on the 16th day I had my 1st 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites reading. The tank cycled in 18 days, now tank has 8 peacock and a pleco and the daily water test are fine and the fish are too...... Prov 356 talked me thru the process and he was right on the head as far as his techniques go for fishless cycling. The nitrites will drop fast, I went from off the charts to 0 in 2 days......................


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

I have a question about fishless cycling as well...

When using fish food, how do you know when the cycle is complete? Since the fish food has to rot to release the ammonia, how do you know when the tank is processing the ammonia and nitrite quickly enough?

Obviously ammonia would have been more precise but I worked with what I had.


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

UPDATE! the tank has finished! I came home from work, tested it and nitrites were at 0! ammonia as well was at 0 and nitrates were at around 40-60ppm.Amazing how fast it happens, went from around 4 ppm nitrites to 0 in literally 24 hours! I did a big 90% water change, and I am stocking some new peacocks today! Thanks everyone for the great advice, you were a big help!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I did a big 90% water change, and I am stocking some new peacocks today!


Be careful with large water changes right after cycling. I've seen big changes right after cycling cause setbacks. Watch carefully for nitrite spikes for a few days. I usually recommend doing a few smaller ones.

Good job and enjoy your fish :thumb:



> When using fish food, how do you know when the cycle is complete? Since the fish food has to rot to release the ammonia, how do you know when the tank is processing the ammonia and nitrite quickly enough?


You'll see one of 3 things happen, I think.

1) You'll eventually get an ammonia spike follow by a nitrite spike in the same manner as with using ammonia, but it may take longer since the food has to be broken down first. Once both drop and nitrate rises, cycle complete.

2) You'll see only one, either ammonia or nitrite, spike and drop if the nitrifying bacteria can deal with what's produced as fast as it's produced. Again, if both are 0 and nitrate is rising, you're cycled.

3) You'll never see ammonia or nitrite spike, but will instead see nitrate rising and algae forming.

The key is ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate rising. It's ok if you never see ammonia or nitrite rise, as long as you see nitrate rising. The beginning signs of algae forming will almost always accompany this unless you're keeping the lights off. I'd recommend lighting the tank normally during cycling so you can see the telltale algae.

HTH


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

i decided to wait until tomorrow to start stocking fish, I added 3 tsp of ammonia this morning (post water change), the ammonia has since been converted, as well as the nitrite, and the nitrate is around 20ppm, so fingers crossed! I think it should be ready! Feel free to tell me anything to look out for, or if I am jumping the gun


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Adding the ammonia and testing was a good idea, but no need now to add any more. If that last dose was fully converted, then you're good to go. I usually finish the water changes to bring nitrate down and add the last dose about 48 hours before adding fish just to make sure all is well. You don't want to put in all the work and time and then rush it at the end.


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

wonderful! thanks again, you have been a real help! I will post some pics tomorrow


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

prov356 said:


> 1) You'll eventually get an ammonia spike follow by a nitrite spike in the same manner as with using ammonia, but it may take longer since the food has to be broken down first. Once both drop and nitrate rises, cycle complete.
> 
> The key is ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate rising. It's ok if you never see ammonia or nitrite rise, as long as you see nitrate rising. The beginning signs of algae forming will almost always accompany this unless you're keeping the lights off. I'd recommend lighting the tank normally during cycling so you can see the telltale algae.
> 
> HTH


The first one is exactly how it happened... and yes, I have seen algae start to form! Perfect. Thanks for the help.


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