# Juli breeding behavior question..



## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

I was hoping to get some clarity and advice, from the experts or experienced keepers, on a pair of Julidochromis marlieri (Gombe) that I keep in a 20g long tank. I started this tank a year or so ago with 6 juvies,..which has slowly dwindled to a pair which I'm assuming formed a few months ago, when the remaining 3rd fish was suddenly gone (and was the biggest btw). The pair always hangs closely together in the back right corner of the tank where they have dug out an area under a group of flat rocks,..piling the sand up around the outside. These are the first Julis I've kept so I'm really no expert on them,..but from what I could observe looked like they were preparing to breed. About a week ago the smaller of the two (I'm assuming the male?) was nowhere to be found. They both always came out immediately when it was time to eat,..and were always both visible to this point. After a couple of days,..I caught a glimpse of him(?) barely coming up from behind the rock pile just for a second and then he disappeared back under the rocks. I didn't see him again at all for a couple of more days,..then last night barely saw him again just for a second. Color etc. seemed to look fine but it was hard to tell. I've not seen the fish eat at all,..or at least he doesn't come out to eat. The bigger of the two,.(I'm assuming the female?) acts perfectly normal and looks as healthy as ever and comes up immediately to eat at feeding time.

Is this normal breeding behavior? I've tried to read up on them as much as possible and from I can tell..this may be normal. I am starting to worry about the one not eating (or at least I can't see it). Is that normal?
Does this sound like a formed pair? Any advice or things to look out for. Any info is appreciated,..thanks!


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

I have a pair of Julidochromis transcriptus ... they paired off out of a group of five original fish that I got back in December 2016.

Three of the originals had to be removed once the two paired off ... otherwise they would have been killed.

The big one is probably the female ... and she is probably keeping the male out of general circulation. It's the same thing my large one does ... any time the little guy tries to venture out she's on him like stink on ... well, you get the idea: Mama rules the roost.

Don't sweat it with the male hiding ... he's probably getting enough to eat ... most likely ventures out more when the lights are off. Mine will sneak out occasionally to grab a bite of food when I feed them ... but he darts right back under his rocks immediately.

BTW - There are probably 50 fry and juvies in the tank with them at this point ... and she does the same thing with the larger juveniles as well. The larger ones (1 1/4" to 1 1/2") are getting to the point, size-wise, where I need to remove them ... otherwise they will probably be killed.

This is in a 10 gallon tank ... so they will tolerate some crowding ... at least with their own offspring:

(Click for larger image)


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks for the great info wryan! Exactly what I was hoping to hear. Great looking little tank and fish!


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## Husky Jerk (May 19, 2012)

I would say your pair is guarding eggs or wigglers by now. My smaller one is rarely seen until the fry start swimming. Congrats! Very strong pair bonding species IME. I've moved mine 4 times and they have always remained paired. They also never tolerated any offspring to live past 2 inches or so until they were moved from a four foot tank into a 6 footer.

I read somewhere that with the Gombe variant, there was some question as to whether the males or females were the larger fish. In the wild, the pairs observed had larger females, but the author theorized that this was due to males being killed more often protecting the nest, because he hadn't observed this to be true in the aquarium. I'll try to find a link in case anybody's interested. I have had a pair for 4 years and while I haven't vented them, observation tells me the male is larger in my case anyways. The smaller one usually tends to the fry, while the larger one chases intruders away. I have a hard time accepting that the larger one is the female. Just food for thought. I'm sure others will chime in.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Kevin in Ky said:


> Thanks for the great info wryan! Exactly what I was hoping to hear.


My pleasure.



Kevin in Ky said:


> Great looking little tank and fish!


Thanks.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks guys,..glad to hear your experiences. I'm hoping to see some babies peeking out soon! Here is a picture of the pair from a month or so ago.


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## The Morning (Nov 22, 2017)

Please keep us updated with pictures. I am very curious to see how this progresses.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Kevin in Ky,

Those are a handsome/pretty pair of fish ... :thumb:


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

Well, I hate to say it but it looks like something went wrong with my "pair" of Julis.. The smaller of the two (I assumed the male).. didn't make it. He had been hiding for a couple of weeks..as I posted above. When he finally started coming out more, I noticed he did not look healthy at all,.. skinny, breathing hard, and only moving along the bottom occasionally.. a few inches at a time. He started to show small signs of progress over the last few days.. but I found him dead last night. Now,.. what do I do with the single fish that is left? She (I assume) is maybe 2" long now,.. so do I try adding another group of Juli's (Gombe) with her.. or would that be a bad idea? This is a 20g long tank,, so is there another group (Multi's maybe) that I can add in with the single Juli? I don't have much experience with anything other than Mbuna tanks, so any advice is appreciated.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Sorry for your loss.

As far as what to do, your call.

If it was me, I'd probably add another group of that type Julie and see what develops.

On the other fish you mention, I can't answer as I have never kept them.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks for the reply! I had thought about just adding another group of the same Julies in with the lone one I have..but really not sure what would happen if there was a major size difference in them. I'd also thought about adding a group of Multies with the single Juli..but have no idea if that might work or not either. Any suggestions are appreciated! I hadn't got a lot of feedback in this thread,..since the title really doesn't apply to the situation any more. I may start another thread for help if I don't get any more responses.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Kevin in Ky said:


> Thanks for the reply! I had thought about just adding another group of the same Julies in with the lone one I have..but really not sure what would happen if there was a major size difference in them. I'd also thought about adding a group of Multies with the single Juli..but have no idea if that might work or not either.


I can't really comment on those two scenarios since I have no experience with either (except for offspring) ... other than to observe that if you get a pair out of the new group, you'll have a pair.

You can always rehome the others.



Kevin in Ky said:


> Any suggestions are appreciated! I hadn't got a lot of feedback in this thread,..since the title really doesn't apply to the situation any more. I may start another thread for help if I don't get any more responses.


I dunno if I'd start a whole new thread on it ... just repost your question as well any others that you currently have.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I agree with the advice you have been given...do you have some different question? You can post it here.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

Not so much a specific question..but more looking for advice and suggestions on what to do next with this 20g long? I don't have a lot of experience with Tangs. I'm down to a single fish (Julidochromis Marlieri -Gombe) which is around 2" now.
I am wondering if I can add a new group of 6 or 7 of the same..which are available at 1.25",..in with the single fish I have now?..or whether I should rehome the existing one first... or could I add a group of Multies (only) in with the existing single Juli with maybe a rock-pile on one end and shells in the rest of the tank?.. or is there another option I haven't thought of?


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Kevin in Ky said:


> Not so much a specific question..but more looking for advice and suggestions on what to do next with this 20g long? I don't have a lot of experience with Tangs. I'm down to a single fish (Julidochromis Marlieri -Gombe) which is around 2" now.
> I am wondering if I can add a new group of 6 or 7 of the same..which are available at 1.25",..in with the single fish I have now?


You can absolutely do that ... although I doubt anyone here can say definitively how it will turn out.



Kevin in Ky said:


> ..or whether I should rehome the existing one first ...


Dunno ... but if I had to guess it might be the safer option.

What I will say in regards to first scenario if that is the route you elect to go, is that if at all possible, try to introduce the new one at a point where you have some time over a couple of days to observe (repeatedly) what is happening.

Reason being is that sometimes behavior that is thought to be aggression can just be normal courting behavior ... and probably vice-versa. Especially to an untrained eye.

Example: my established pair of transcriptus

The (larger) female will absolutely NOT let the (smaller) male roam the tank ... any time he attempts to venture out, she will go after him ... nipping and pushing at him to get back where he belongs ... and keeping him confined to a couple of places in the tank (behind the sponge filters, under a piece of lava rock that he's built a bower under, etc.)

Seems awfully aggressive and makes me wonder how he even gets enough food to survive ... but is apparently normal behavior.



Kevin in Ky said:


> or could I add a group of Multies (only) in with the existing single Juli with maybe a rock-pile on one end and shells in the rest of the tank?..


I think the Cookie Cutter set ups suggest only a pair ... but I don't have any actual experience myself (yet)



Kevin in Ky said:


> or is there another option I haven't thought of?


How much time ya got ?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would add juvenile julidochromis and rehome the one fish only if it becomes necessary. You could add shellies, or not. If you do shellies...rocks at one side, bare sand in the middle...at least 6 inches and piles of shells on the other side.

There are other options in the cookie cutter section...I would avoid leleupi though.


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