# plants with large haps?



## Hap man (May 28, 2012)

Does Anybody have live plants in an aquarium with large haps? If so what kind are they and do your fish tear them up? I'm looking to lower nitrates in my aquarium seeing that I have about 20ppm of nitrates that come in through the tap water. I have large haps and a few large mbuna in a 125 gal.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

One thing to note when they goal is lowering nitrates is that you want fast growing plants like vallisneria. Java fern and anubias won't have a huge impact.

I have not tried many of the fast growing plants with haps. Hygrophila difformis fared pretty well.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Good post as I was wondering the same. My goal with any plants in my Hap Peacock tank would be to hide my intake tubes. Setting up a 180 with a 3d background but it is a slim 1/2" background with no room to hide anything behind it. I didnt want to give up any room (3-4") in the tank. Are there any taller plants that may work in this tank too hide the tubes? Thanks. Sorry If I hijacked the thread.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Plants are usually not a good idea near the filter intakes as they tend to block/clog the strainer.

You can make the intake piping less noticeable by painting it a similar color to your background using a spray paint made for plastics such as Krylon Fusion OR you can modify your background a bit so the intake piping (not the strainer) is recessed into the background. If you have any excess material left over from the slimline background, you could attach it to the main background, forming a pocket for the piping to slip into.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

I knew i would get good advice here! I may order a smaller version of the background (not much money for small version) and cut what I need for such a pocket. I guess a little silicone would work to hold it together. I can paint the strainer a color close to the background and that should look pretty good.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

What I did for my DIY background was to leave a narrow space at each end of the tank for the intakes for my 2 canister filters. This makes it easy to remove the intake piping for servicing and a large rock or two or some driftwood hide the intake from the front viewing area. I tried to keep it as simple as possible.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

fishing12 said:


> I knew i would get good advice here! I may order a smaller version of the background (not much money for small version) and cut what I need for such a pocket. I guess a little silicone would work to hold it together. I can paint the strainer a color close to the background and that should look pretty good.


I just put mine behind the background. I have 4 tanks like this and would never do anything else for a show tank.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> fishing12 said:
> 
> 
> > I knew i would get good advice here! I may order a smaller version of the background (not much money for small version) and cut what I need for such a pocket. I guess a little silicone would work to hold it together. I can paint the strainer a color close to the background and that should look pretty good.
> ...


Do you have holes cut into the background to allow water to enter behind the 3d background or built in vents? How does this effect your mechanical filtration? Does any of the garbage manage to work its way behind the background for the intake to take care of?


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Deeda said:


> What I did for my DIY background was to leave a narrow space at each end of the tank for the intakes for my 2 canister filters. This makes it easy to remove the intake piping for servicing and a large rock or two or some driftwood hide the intake from the front viewing area. I tried to keep it as simple as possible.


Did you cut the background short like an inch on both ends?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

fishing12 said:


> Do you have holes cut into the background to allow water to enter behind the 3d background or built in vents? How does this effect your mechanical filtration? Does any of the garbage manage to work its way behind the background for the intake to take care of?


Yes there are holes. Mechanical filtration is perfect. If your filtration is strong enough, I find nothing remains on the bottom behind the background. But occasionally I have a rigid length of tubing...maybe 1/2" that I jam into the hose of the python and suck up anything that might be there.

Biggest problem is fry swimming through the grids covering the holes and growing up back there, LOL.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> fishing12 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have holes cut into the background to allow water to enter behind the 3d background or built in vents? How does this effect your mechanical filtration? Does any of the garbage manage to work its way behind the background for the intake to take care of?
> ...


 LOL I guess that would be a problem. My tank will be all Male so unless a miracle happens that wouldnt be a problem for me if I figured out how to make this work with the background. I dont think I could silicone it 2 inches off the back as it would probaly bow towards the back glass unless I put a couple of poly pipe braces against the back of the tank and silicone both ends, one to the background and one to the back glass??


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Why would it bow? Mine are rigid.

My backgrounds are 3D so there tend to be sections behind that are close to the glass and sections with room for the intakes. I do have to cut the backgrounds to install them, so one I have installed in sort of a "V" to allow room at the ends but none in the middle.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> Why would it bow? Mine are rigid.
> 
> My backgrounds are 3D so there tend to be sections behind that are close to the glass and sections with room for the intakes. I do have to cut the backgrounds to install them, so one I have installed in sort of a "V" to allow room at the ends but none in the middle.


 It is a single piece unit that is designed to bend so that you can install it in a tank with a center brace or a double brace tank like mine. No cuts or seems to stick together so its not a rigid piece.

You gave me an Idea, a bow in the center wouldnt be bad as I could perhaps taper out both ends to fit the tubes and then silicone the ends that are sticking out the two inches or so I need for the tubes. Guess a lot of this is just speculation until the piece gets here on Wednesday or Thursday. Then I can see what is realistic and what would look good. I dont know why but I really am having a hard time giving up a couple of inches for a background that would be made to hide the equipment. More room for the fish I guess especially if I have a couple of larger Haps going in here, but that is another big discussion for later down the road LOL!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My backgrounds can be 5" thick in places and 1" thick in others. The fish love the nooks, crannies and ledges.


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## Hap man (May 28, 2012)

so anymore info on live plants?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Yes, when I made my background, I anticipated where the intakes would be placed and left the background short at the ends of the tank.

Here is a pic before I added the water. The black area on the left and right side is actually the rear of the tank that I painted black.










On the left side is the green intake pipe for the Eheim 2260 with a chuck of driftwood hiding the intake strainer from view. On the right side is the black intake pipe for the FX5 and the intake strainer is hidden by the large rock.


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## Hap man (May 28, 2012)

oh well!


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

oh well?

What happened?


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Deeda said:


> Yes, when I made my background, I anticipated where the intakes would be placed and left the background short at the ends of the tank.
> 
> Here is a pic before I added the water. The black area on the left and right side is actually the rear of the tank that I painted black.
> 
> ...


That is a nice background! Great idea. I am going to paint the back Black as well in case I ever decide to remove the background. I could paint the 3 filter tubes black and use some natural camo as you did. I will have to wait and see once the background comes in this week but all of the suggestions I have received from you guys so far have been great, I really appreciate it!! I'm going to keep posting some updates and questions of course(lol) on the Tank Setups forum/ 180 Getting Ready thread.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Hap man said:


> so anymore info on live plants?


Good idea, we need to turn this post back over to Hap man. Hap man, what additional information would you like about plants? I notice you also have mbuna in the tank. THEY tear up most anything in my tanks FYI.


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## Hap man (May 28, 2012)

well basically I wont to know if anybody has had any success with live plants that have both haps and mbuna .I have Bucco. leptures, nototaenia, rhoadesii, nimbo. fusco, polystigma ,milomo, red empress, fosso. rostratus. Mbuna are one large red zebra,( a digger ) metriclima greshakei(large) The mbuna dig alot. Just looking to lower nitrates with some plants if that's possible. water from tap can be anywhere from 20ppm to 40ppm.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd do a sump.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> I'd do a sump.


If you dont have a drilled tank and wanted to do a sump with one of those boxes that hang on the back(overflow?) how much room should be left between your tank and a wall. I may do a sump down the road instead of plants for Nitrates.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Oh the sump would be for the plants. It will not get rid of nitrates for you without plants.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> Oh the sump would be for the plants. It will not get rid of nitrates for you without plants.


I feel bad that I keep hijacking Hap mans thread!

Last post on this and then back to you Hap Man.

I hear a sump is more efficient at biological filtration than a canister. I like the aesthetics of plants but sounds like a lot of trouble with Malawis for the extra nitrate absorption. I just thought down the road a sump would be in the works for me is all.

Ok Hap Man back too you LOL!!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

PM sent to fishing12.


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## Hap man (May 28, 2012)

A sump is a really good idea but I don't won't to do a sump. I got a great thread on another site. couldn't believe this individual had this much experience with all these different plants. Seeing that I don't have experience with any of these, or any live plants for that matter, take a look at these and let me know if anybody has used any of these plants, and on top of that how have they done with cichlids. sorry, but it's quite the read.
Ferns

Bolbitis heudelotii
-Did not grow well; attracted black marl and withered in hard water

Ceratopteris siliquosa
-Grew extremely well in good light; one monster of a plant

Ceratopteris thalicroides
-Like C. siliquosa, grew incredibly well and became difficult to tame in good light

Marsilea drummondii
-Did well although it spread slowly which is typical of Marsilea spp.

Marsilea quadrifolia
-Did very well in hard water and required very little light

Microsorium pteropus 'Standard'
-Did very well; no problems at all

Microsorium pteropus 'Narrow'
-Does very well; seems to appreciate and thrive in high light/CO2 environment

Microsorium pteropus 'Needle'
-Doing well currently although growth is slow

Microsorium pteropus 'Windelov'
-Like M. pteropus 'Standard' and 'Narrow' does very well in hard water

Flowering plants

Alternanthera reineckii 'Sunset'
-Did not do well at all in hard water; leaves withered and died

Ammania sp. 'Bonsai' / Rotala indica
-Does quite well in hard water with good light and CO2; does best when left in one spot and not replanted often; takes well to pruning and replanting when necessary

Anubias barteri v barteri
-Did well; slow grower

Anubias barteri v nana
-Have had several plants in tank for almost two years now and they grow slowly be steadily; tend to attract some green algae in high light but PO4 levels of 1.0+ ppm moderate algal growth

Anubias barteri v nana 'petite'
-Does very well in hard water; I have a wall of these plants growing on porous piece of lace rock, climbing it like ivy

Aponogeton undulatus
-Does well in hard water; turns into a monster, like many Apos, and is not one of my favorites; will even bloom in an ARLC tank
Bacopa caroliniana
-Does well in hard water given proper light; hard to kill

Bacopa myriophylloides
-This is one tricky plant; looked great when planted as an emersed specimen and began to put out submerged growth but slowly withered and died

Blyxa japonica
-Would grow just fine in an ARLC tank except for the fact that mbuna seem to savor the taste of its leaves; if you can find a species of fish that won't eat it then you're in good shape

Cabomba furcata
-Did fairly well although did not seem to want to take on purple-red coloration that it does in softer water

Crassula helmsii
-Looked good when first planted but slowly withered away/melted; would like to try again

Crinum calamistratum
-Did well at first until it attracted a bit of algae because of its slow-growing nature in hard water; algae attracted Africans; end of story; would like to try again

Cryptocoryne affinis
-Loves ARLC water conditions; next to C. wendtii, the easiest Crypt I've found to grow in an ARLC tank

Cryptocoryne cordata v blassii
-Tricky and a very slow grower in ARLC conditions; I've kept one in my ARLC tank for over a year now and it has never show any inclination to put out more than a half-dozen leaves at any given time

Cryptocoryne crispatula v balanciaga
-A beautiful Crypt that simply won't grow fast enough in hard water although it has a beautiful bronze hammered/bullate leaf texture; best kept in softer conditions

Cryptocoryne crispatula v spiralis
-Grows like a weed in just about any conditions I've tried it in; gets too long, even for a large tank and begins to look ugly

Cryptocoryne longicauda
-Like C. cordata v blassii, does not grow fast enough in ARLC water conditions to make any progress; would like to try again

Cryptocoryne undulata 'Red'
-Grows extremely well in ARLC conditions; very similar in health to most C. wendtii variants; very pretty brown/purple/red coloration and nicely pinnate leaf form

Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Green Gecko'
-Loves ARLC conditions and will change color dramatically depending on how much light it receives; very prolific and pretty

Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi Oya'
-A bit slower growing than other C. wendtii variants in my ARLC tank, but still did very well; nice leaf patterning

Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Red'
-Very healthy growth; hard to slow it down, although a bit boring to look at

Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Tropica'
-Strong, healthy, decumbate growth with a nice dark bronze bullate texture; hard to find a good spot for it in the aquascape

Cyperus helferi
-Slow growth in hard water and always ends up attracting black marl; too bad, because it is one of my favorites; best kept in softer water

Didiplis diandra
-Does very well in ARLC water although lower stems will turn black and rot faster than in soft water if shaded too much

Echinodorus x barthii
-Grew fairly well, but slowly; like other swords I have kept I believe its roots did not do well in my paritially carbonate buffered substrate

Echinodorus 'Ozelot'
-Did fairly well but leaves did not tend to last very long before they began to wither; I suspect the substrate had a lot to do with it

Echinodorus tenellus
-Grew quite well and became a bit of a pest; I am not a big fan of grassy plants, especially sneaky ones like this one - they're very hard to get rid of

Eichhornia diversifolia
-After the initial black-and-blue transplant shock that this plant seems to suffer on occassion it did fairly well; does not seem to shoot to the surface nearly as quickly or produce as many leaves as it does in softer water

Elatine triandra
-Grows unbelievably well in hard water; can quickly take over a tank if not pruned frequently; I still find it growing in the strangest places

Eleocharis acicularis
-Grew slowly, but this was before CO2 supplementation so I suspect it may do fairly well if given proper CO2 levels

Glossostigma elatinoides
-Grows very well in ARLC conditions given proper light and CO2

Hemianthus callitrichoides
-Growth was extremely slow and not enough to even offset die-back

Hemianthus micranthemoides 'Erect'
-Grows well in most conditions; has a slight tendency to attract hair algae in my ARLC tank if it gets too thick; can't figure out how to incorporate it into my aquascape

Hemigraphis traian
-Did not do well at all in hard water; lower leaves quickly died off; only growth tips looked good; it looks much better in my soft water grow-out tank

Heteranthera zosterifolia
-Grows well in ARLC tanks but tends to have the tips nibbled by my mbuna, so it does look the best; I wish I could get them to leave it alone

Hottonia palustris
-Given proper light will grow quite well; lower stems tend to rot quickly if shaded

Hydrocotyle verticellata
-Grows nicely in hard water but leaves tend to die more quickly than they do in softer water; still one of my favorites
Hydrocotyle sibthorpioides
-Grows well in most conditions I've tried with med- to high- light and CO2; does not have a very nice growth form and tends to get bushy and tangled so can be tricky to incorporate into an aquascape

Hydrotriche hottoniiflora
-Grows fairly well (and quickly) in hard water but needs plenty of light to prevent loss of lower stems; beautiful brilliant green color

Hygrophila corymbosa v 'Compacta'
-Grows decently but leaves tend to become pinholed and rot much more quickly than they do in softer water; not recommended

Hygrophila difformis
-Grows like the weed that it is; this plant would probably grow in an empty shoe box in the back of my closet; will inundate a tank very quickly

Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosa Nervig'
-Grows quite nicely in hard water given plenty of light; CO2 helps as well; leaves still take on the characteristic "pink with white venation" look at the tips

Lagenandra thwaitesii
-Withered and died; did not seem to do well in hard water but I would like to try again

Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
-Grew well and took on rich green submersed coloration like a grass yard but eventually attracted algae and slowly shrunk until I had to remove; might work well in the right conditions but requires tons of maintainence to make it look good; will try again when I have more time

Limnophila aromatica
-Loves hard water and grows quite well with characteristic purple-red leaf coloration; fast, healthy growth

Limnophila sessiliflora
-Very healthy and fast vertical growth; hard to keep up with; nice bright green accent

Lobelia cardinalis 'small form'
-Healthy but slow, low growth; does better in softer water

Ludwigia brevipes
-Grows quite well in hard water; branches and propagates readily

Ludwigia glandulosa
-I love this plant but it grows so slowly in hard (or soft) water; the coloration is an unreal deep wine-red; easily my favorite Ludwigia species; will be trying again soon

Ludwigia inclinata var verticellata 'Pantanal'
-Melted like an ice cube; definitely a soft water plant

Ludwigia ovalis
-Grows quite well in hard water; did not get the pretty salmon-pink coloration quite as well as it does in softer water

Ludwigia repens
-Grows vibrantly in hard water; lower stems will lose leaves without sufficient light

Ludwigia repens 'Rubin'
Like its standard cousin, grows very well in hard water; upper leaves near light turn a brilliant blood red; highly recommended for ARLC tanks

Mayaca fluviatilis
-Slow growth compared to soft water but the tips still got the nice frosted white look until they attracted algae and became lunch for my mbuna; would like to try again

Mayaca sellowiana
-This is one of my favorite plants when healthy but, alas, I can't seem to keep it healthy in any tank conditions; attracts algae and stunts in hard water; eaten by mbuna once it gets algae

Micranthemum umbrosum
-Beautiful bright yellow-green growth in hard water with lots of light and CO2; lower stems tend to become brittle and rot more quickly than they do in softer water so it requires more frequent replanting, but is still one of my all-time favorite plants

Myriophyllum hippuroides
-This is one fast-growing, bushy, green plant; requires plenty of light lower stems will rot; will readily produce offshoots if allowed to bend across top of water; great background plant

Myriophyllum matogrossense 'Green'
-Does extremely well in most water conditions; brilliant green foliage and medium-height growth makes it a great mid- to background plant; needs plenty of light

Myriophyllum tuberculatum 'Red'
-Sparse foliage and somewhat slow growth in hard water, but has a nice brown-red coloration; I wish it would grow faster and thicker; does better in softer water

Nesaea sp 'Red'
-I cannot grow this plant under any conditions; would like to talk to someone who has

Nuphar japonicum v formosa
-Slow growing lily that turns into a monster given time; it does very well in hard water and has brilliant orange-gold leaves; does not put up floating leaves readily like the Nymphera genus; highly recommended if you have a big tank and don't mind the plants below it getting shaded

Nymphoides aquatica
-Will grow anywhere; typical banana plant

Pogostemon helferi
-Does very well in hard water; in my 50% carbonate-based substrate it takes on a richer, darker green coloration than it does in my softer water, Flourite-based substrate grow-out tank; beware, Africans seem to like nibbling on the new growth so they need to be fed well to be kept away from it

Pogostemon (Eusteralis) stellata 'Broad-leaf'
-Grows amazingly well in ARLC tanks; will lose lower leaves without sufficient light; does not seem to mind hard water at all; brilliant color as it approaches the surface

Pogostemon (Eusteralis) stellata 'Narrow-leaf'
-Grows well in ARLC conditions, sometimes; I still haven't figured this one out; requires as much light as you can give it; tends to stunt for no good reason, even when it appears to be in perfect health; still working on this one

Polygonum sp
-I've tried several mystery Polygonum species and they've all done quite well in my hard water, although the species is not one of my favorites - sort of boring in my opinion

Potamogeton gayi
-Very interesting plant that does well in hard water; nice bronze-green leaf coloration with quick, vibrant growth; tricky to use in an aquascape because of its unique growth habits, but I'm working on it

Ranalisma humile
-Very similar to E. tenellus bet smaller and with a reddish tinge to the new growth; growth is fairly slow compared to E. tenellus and it requires good light and CO2

Ranunculus papulentus
-Does quite well in my ARLC conditions; runners do not seem to spread as rapidly as they do in softer water and leaves tend to die a bit sooner but overall still healthy

Rotala macrandra 'Red'
-Slow to establish from emersed growth specimens with about a 50% mortality rate; survivors tend to do fairly well although leaves are not as lush and growth seems a bit stunted compared to soft water-grown specimens; once acclimated it does fairly well

Rotala macrandra 'Variegated'
-Almost identical to R. macrandra 'Red'; beautiful pink leaf coloration with faint white venation

Rotala rotundifolia 'Colorata'
-Grows very well in hard water but tends to be sort of 'tangly'; I wish it would grow straighter because the leaf coloration is truly amazing, ranging from greent to yellow, orange, pink, red and every shade in between; still working on this one

Rotala rotundifolia 'Green'
-Extremely vibrant growth with amazing coloration on the growth tips as they approach the light; this is one of my favorite plants because it is so amenable to trimming and sculpting and has a very regular growth habit

Rotala wallichii
-Very fragile in hard water; does not seem to like it at all; not recommended

Sagittaria subulata
-Grows like wild but leaves tend to wither and die quite quickly; sort of messy; not one of my favorites

Sagittaria weatherbiana
-Like S. subulata on steroids and growth hormones; I really like the leaf shape of this plant; grows well, even in medium light

Vallisneria spp.
-Lasts no longer than 24 hours when placed into my tank; I've never found a plant that my Africans enjoy eating more than Vallisneria; not recommended, buy your mileage may vary

Liverworts

Monoselenium tenerum (Pellia)
-Grows well; left alone by fish

Riccia fluitans
-Grows very well; left alone by fish unless it attracts hair algae, in which case they will dig in it
Riccia species 'Dwarf'
-Grows in low tufts; tended to attract hair algae, and thus mbuna

Mosses
-None of them will grow in my tank because my Africans take perverse pleasure in shredding them and scattering them to the four winds


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have had success with some of those plants, but not necessarily for reduction of nitrates. Some of them do better with high light and CO2 IME.

For reduction of nitrates, this one: Hygrophila difformis. And vallisneria. My fish did not eat it within 24 hours, LOL.

Slow growing (no impact on nitrates) plants from the above list I have had success with:
Microsorium=java fern
Anubias
Bacopa
Crypts
Echinodorus=sword plants


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## Hap man (May 28, 2012)

> For reduction of nitrates, this one: Hygrophila difformis. And vallisneria. My fish did not eat it within 24 hours, LOL.


you say they didn't eat it in the first 24 hours.Did they survive and grow? here's another question. can plants you buy bring a disease to your aquarium?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It did survive and grow. Plants can bring snails. There are precautions you can take before adding the plants, and actions you can take after if you don't want the snails.


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## Hap man (May 28, 2012)

what were the precautions you took?


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## 4RSo (Aug 13, 2011)

I think there are liquids that one can use to kill snails.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I didn't take any...I starve them out after they are in the tank. You can quarantine the plants and do that in the quarantine tank if you prefer.


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## 4RSo (Aug 13, 2011)

won't they just eat the plants and survive that way? How do you starve them?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Most of them don't eat the plants. You feed your fish carefully so there are no leftovers for the snails.


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## Hap man (May 28, 2012)

is it a given that you will get snails when you buy plants?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No not at all.


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