# juvie calvus dying after water changes



## MikeyG (Sep 24, 2009)

I have(had) 6 juvie calvus in a 15g, and I have lost 4 due to water changes. I do a water change, they freak out, the white spots/stripes turn yellowish, they lie on their sides, and that's it. 

I started with 6, did a water change last week maybe 15%, and lost 3. I just did a 25% water change because my nitrates were getting high (20 or so), and a 4th is on his side, about dead. There is no ammonia in my tap water, I used 2-3 drops of Prime per gallon (does Prime go bad?), and the water was about 79 degrees (tank heater is set to 78). Oddly, the 2 calvus I have left are the smallest of the bunch. 2 juvie plecos and juvie multies in the same tank show no ill effects. What could I be doing wrong?

Also, are adult calvus this sensitive? If so, I better bail on the adult pair I have on hold.

How in the world do I do water changes to prevent deaths each time. The fact that i am trying to do this right makes it all the more frustrating!


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

What are the rest of your water parameters? What are the pH, KH, and GH for the tank and your tap water?

What are you using to make the water changes? Any buckets or hoses? Some hoses are treated with chemicals for various reasons. Are there any chemicals around that could contaminate the water?


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## MikeyG (Sep 24, 2009)

I don't have a test kit for GH and KH, and the test kit I have for PH only goes to 7.8, so it's kind of useless for my water. I live in central TX, so we have hard alkaline water that runs through limestone aquifers.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What experienced fishkeepers do for finicky fish is they use water from another low-nitrate tank to replace the water in the finicky tank.

If you have two tanks, do the big water change in the non-finicky tank to provide a water source.

Mine have never been finicky, but I have a well (no chlorine) and pH=7.8. I did have trouble with a batch of cyp fry once, and that was the trick GoofBoy used.

Get a high-range pH test kit. Also do a pH test of your tap water after it sits out in a bowl for 24 hours. Sometimes the pH immediately is much lower than the pH after 24 hours because the outgassing once the water leaves the pressurized pipe system changes the pH.


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## MikeyG (Sep 24, 2009)

I'll get the high range pH test kit. I guess this means I can't get a 40 for the adult calvus then...my "other" tank being a 15g wouldn't make it practical. It makes me wonder how people with calvus in large tanks do water changes with hoses and such without killing all their fish 

Could it be that the young 1-1.5 inch ones are more sensitive than adults to water changes?


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

Mine are not sensitive. I have 5 juvies about 1.25 inches and do not do anything special for them. I treat them just as I do my mbuna. If non of the other fish are affected I would guess that it is that particular batch that is delicate, not the species calvus in general.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes it could be. Also if you find the pH changes after 24 hours some extra aeration might do the trick.


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## mekhman (Apr 8, 2010)

Sometime when ammonia build up in a tank and you do water change by adding high PH fresh water, the water become toxic for your fish. Right now I have 55gallon tank with hundreds of 1" gold jack Dempsey fry. Lot of ammonia gets build up in there because of lot of feeding. So here is how I do water change:
1. remove old water form a tank
2. add some ammonia remover 
3. add fresh water after 10-15 minutes.
I do it for all my tanks which are crowded. Try it it may help.


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## ashilli48 (May 14, 2006)

I had this happen once, but only once. Someone told me they are exceptionally sensitive to chlorine. All I could think was that I didn't put the dechlor in first. Then again it was also a planted tank and I may have stirred some gases when the water hit the substrate.

The one i have now is a hoss.....he has survived a quick move in which I had no choice but to drain the water down really low and move the tank with fish. Not my greatest moment and I would never suggest it, bit it worked out.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Fry are terribly sensitive, Juvis are sensitive to some things (Nitrite, ammonia, temp, ph.) Adults are tough to kill when you treat them normally.

My guess is that you inadvertently caused a PH spike causing the present toxins to multiply their effect. Also, I didn't catch what the temp difference is. If there is one thing that even adult Calvus are sensitive to it's temp change. Especially colder water, I'd say colde by 2 degrees is pushing it and 4 degrees, depending on the amount etc., is deadly.

One other thing is that some wells release water with very low Oxygen levels. When I first started with Calvus I killed a group of juvies with water that had sat un-aerated over night (I don't know what I was thinking :roll: ).

Depending on how "juvi" your fish are, at over 1.5 inches X6 of them, a 15 gallon tank is too small imo. Not because they can't survive but because the water parameters will tend to shift too much creating a much less stable water balance. Try changing water when your Nitrates are, at most, 10ppm and raise them in a 30 gallon, care for your tap water as usual using prime etc. (Over dosing prime is not necessary). doing all this I think will eliminate this problem.


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## clgkag (Mar 22, 2008)

I agree with BioG, put them in a bigger tank. I would guess the WC in a 15 gal tank is making parameters swing too much. If you can put them at least a 30, you should see better results. I also do my water changes on my calvus at the opposite end of the tank from where they hang out. I figure by the time the new water gets to them, it will be thoroughly mixed with the existing water and not do any harm.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

What I've found is that Altos are sensitive to chlorine. I've done many a WC where the temperature and pH are off and the altos have always been fine. But on occasion I've forgotten to dose my prime properly and all the altos begin gasping and a few of them die. Now I've done the odd WC at a 10% volume forgetting the de-chlorinator and most fish really aren't worse for the wear, but the altos always go belly up in a hurry.


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## MikeyG (Sep 24, 2009)

Good advice, I just bought a larger tank (a 33 long).

Thanks all!


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## Ed_209 (Dec 22, 2004)

Buy a rubbermaid "brute" pail to mix in the Prime before you do the WC.
I've done 25% on two 90 gallons with a hose and the calvus fry always get stressed.
Once I got the 45 gallon pail,the fry don't act any different after a WC.
Up here in Toronto,the big pail was under 50.00 and well worth it.


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## Munchie1010 (Oct 19, 2009)

*** noticed when i first got my calvus juvies i didnt match the temperature of the water and the fish started gasping, so what i do now is leave the heater on down close to the substrate while doing WC and the fish are always fine now


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

DJRansome said:


> What experienced fishkeepers do for finicky fish is they use water from another low-nitrate tank to replace the water in the finicky tank.
> 
> If you have two tanks, do the big water change in the non-finicky tank to provide a water source....


That's what I do with my altos. Alto fry are VERY sensative to water changes. My wc breeders are in a 55 gallon tank and my nitrates are very low 5ppm. I use a 5 gallon bucket of water from that tank and change the water in my fry tank. The new water for the fry is tempered and the fry are happy.

Adult altos are not as sensative; however, adult calvus are more sensative than comps. You'll get can't behind on your water changes with calvus.

Good luck!


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

That's a great observation with the Comps vs. Calvus sensitivity! Comps seem to be quite a bit hardier in dirty water (so I've heard  , I wouldn't know, my tanks are always pristinely clean! :roll: )

Another thing is delivery. How fast you get new water into the tank seems to have some effect on juvis and especially fry. with brand new fry I will literally reload the tank with 5 gallons of water with an air hose which takes awhile.

I don't just dump the buckets in until they're about 1.5 inches.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

BioG said:


> ...Another thing is delivery. How fast you get new water into the tank seems to have some effect on juvis and especially fry. with brand new fry I will literally reload the tank with 5 gallons of water with an air hose which takes awhile.
> 
> I don't just dump the buckets in until they're about 1.5 inches.


You have good instincts BioG :wink: I do the same thing only with a little bigger diameter tube (which I don't mind using since the new water is coming from a low nitrate main tank).

Very good thread!


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