# HELP - Immediate onset of "drunk" behavior evening feeding



## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hello and HELP!!! and first of all THANK YOU for taking the time to read this.

This evening, I had one of my blue cobalt zebra mbunas just "start acting weird". The onset was immediate, after the evening feeding. All other fish looked normal & active.

The fish laid down sideways on a rock, sort of, for a few seconds. Seemed to be swimming with just the pectoral fins, almost like the back half of its body didn't want to move. One fin actually twitched like some sort of weird neurological episode. It did not seem bloated.

(These fish are on my desk, our office is in our house, in our living room, so I am literally looking at these guys all the time. So I am positive that the onset of whatever this is was immediate; within 20 minutes of feeding - it was so weird...)

So, of course, the first thing you think of is water. I had just checked my levels about 4 hours earlier (I do it every day), so about 4 hours before this fish started acting funny, my readings were:

temp - 78 degrees, ph 8.2, ammonia - 0, nitrite - 0, nitrate - between 10 and 20 ppm (I have a hard time telling exactly where it is between those subtle changes in orange color, but definitely NOT over 20 ppm.)

Carbonate & general hardness I have a hard time reading, as they are higher than the API test chart will read. 13 drops and 18 drops respectively are required to achieve the color change, and the API test kit chart only goes to 12. (I had facebooked API about this - they told me that although my water was unusually hard, it was not that abnormal and OK for cichlids.) Yes, our tap water is freakishly hard, and the ph is unusually high. makes life with cichlids easier, though.

All that said, I did a 50% water change anyway. It seemed to help, maybe? The fish started acting better, almost immediately. It's been about 2 hours, and he is definitely improved, but still not quite normal. Still seems a little, well... drunk. There really is no better way to describe it.

So, what are my other tank stats/conditions?

Started the tank January 25, 2014.
29 gallon tank
Cascade 1500 canister filter (rated for up to 200 gallon tank - massive overkill, I know, but my water is pristine!)
I use the spray bar, but had husband drill holes in the end piece to dampen it down a bit, and additional angled holes under the water to push a current back toward the outlet.

Some live plants (they actually don't tear them up too bad... seems to help with nitrates)

Tankmates: (were added to the tank between Feb 1 and March 12 or so.)
Red Zebra, male
Snow White Socolofi, male
Johanni, male
Johanni, female
Dragonblood, male (OK, OK, I didn't know the difference between a peacock and an mbuna...)
Yellow lab - female
another Yellow lab - female
Green Afra, male
White top Afra, male
OB Zebra mbuna, male
Green Terror, male
Demasoni, male
Blueberry, male
cobalt zebra, male (the sick one, Elwood)
Cobalt zebra, male (his friend, Jake... you know... Jake & Elwood, the Blues Brothers...)
Red top Hongi, male
Yellow Fin Mbamba, male
Raphael catfish

Size of all these fish is on the small side; 1.5 to 2.5 inches. Yes, I am intentionally over-stocked. It does seem to help with aggression.

Aggression - I had a larger peacock, the old tank boss, that was too aggressive; I took him out about a week or so ago. (He has been temporarily exiled into a 20 gallon tank by himself until I can get a 75 up and running...) The Red Zebra took over (Vladimir) and the fish are actually pretty peaceful with one another; normal chasing, but no real biting. (Even my daughter commented that the fish look much more relaxed and peaceful under Vlad's rule...)

General behavior - always moving, very active, they like to swim in the current for no reason but to have fun... like to move rocks. Some flashing. Seem super healthy and super happy. They are the most awesome fish!

Food - Extreme Pee Wee Cichlid. Feed 3 times per day. A few pellets at a time. then more, then more until one or two pellets actually hit the bottom of the tank. Once that happens, I stop, but they still act hungry. Yes, I probably overfeed - but they seem sooooo hungry all the time! To get food to the catfish, I have to put "the claw hand" into the tank and drop food on the catfish... They eat like insane, voracious maniacs and act like I never feed them. They also do this weird "chipmunking" thing; they fill their mouths with food... like a chipmunk... then when I stop feeding them, they separate, and spit a bunch of it out, try to keep the other ones from taking it, and then eat it more slowly...

Tank Deco - gravel, larger polished aquarium rock, petrified wood from Oregon, plants, caves made out of the petrified wood.

Water change schedule - I don't think I've ever gone more than 4-5 days. When I was in the ammonia and nitrite stage of my tank cycling, sometimes I did water changes more than once per day. But since all I'm dealing with is Nitrate anymore, (although I measure for everything) I just change water when it gets to 20ppm.

Chemical used when performing water changes:
Seachem Prime (for chlorine, but also is supposed to bond to ammo, nitrites & nitrates if they are present)
API Stress xyme
API Quick Start
API Natural Trace Minerals for Cichlids

If you all haven't figured it out by now, I'm kinda OCD. I pay attention to detail, I stay on top of taking care of these guys and it is REALLY upsetting that one of them can just instantly be sick like this... Will all of them get sick? Do I need to quarantime this fish? (All I have for a hospital tank is a 2.5 gallon betta tank, but it does have light, filter, hood.) What do you think??? Thanks again SO SO SO much for reading through all of this...


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

It is possible the fish in question swam into a hard object such as a rock or the tank glass and knocked himself silly. This may or may not resolve itself over time.

It is also possible that one or some of the cichlids you have added to the tank in the last month were ill but it is impossible to know at this time. The only way to avoid introducing illness or disease to your established aquarium is by quarantining any new fish for at least a couple weeks. I understand this can be a difficult task if you don't have room for an additional aquarium.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Dee; I think you may be right... I never thought of that as a possibility!
update: Morning water check; ph 8.2, temp 78, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate between 5ppm and 10ppm.
As of this morning, Elwood is about 90% back to normal. He's actually a little crabby this AM. He's chasing some of the other fish a little aggressively, but not biting at least. He was the first to greet me this morning, and was hungry; ate well. 
The only things I can still see are:
1.) his neutral buoyancy orientation(I dunno what to call it?) When he swims, and comes to a stop, his tail is a little more dropped down than normal. and 
2.) his fine motor control(I dunno what to call this either?) seems a bit off. The other fish, to maintain a neutral position (in a tank with a lot of current) use their fins to maintain position, and their heads do not bobble back and forth. Elwood's head, when he's trying to maintain a stationary position, bobbles a bit. Not enough that anyone other than me would notice it, but it is present nonetheless.
A fish with a concussion... who would have EVER thought of that! It does seem the logical explanation.
I think he'll be alright, and THANK YOU for your help, Dee.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the update, just keep an eye on him to see if his symptoms get worse or he develops any physical symptoms.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

He's made a complete recovery... 100% normal... it must have been what you said; he ran into something... thanks again! not all of the stories in this section of the forum have happy endings...


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

I just came across this. I'm fairly certain that Dee missed the fact that this is a 29 gallon tank. It's way to small for all but a small single group of Mbuna. With a 29 gallon tank, and the stocking you have, you have a recipe for disaster. That stocking would be a bit much for a 75 gallon tank, especially with that many males. My opinion, rehome the females, and try to get a 75 gallon tank, at least. Or rehome and stock something that will live in a 29 gallon tank, Like some Tanganyikans.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Agreed on the larger tank... I have had to rehome one fish due to aggression, too. The rest, however, get along fairly well. I do as much "aggression management" as I can... tips I've read on the forum really help  actually, this forum has been a real blessing...

I have lots of rocks and caves to hide, and multiple breaks in their line of sight, and some live plants that they don't actually tear up too much. I also move things around every week when I change water/vacuum the gravel, and at night, at lights out, I wrap a blanket around the sides of the tank so it is pretty dark and nothing can scare them (like us walking by, or my cats...) so they relax.

So, them getting along as well as they do is not by magic. I do work pretty hard at keeping things peaceful, and just some downright good luck! Right now, looking at all of them, only 3 have fin nips, and they're not severe; none have had fin nips so severe they wouldn't heal completely in under a week... so far... from what I understand of mbunas, that's not too bad. I think the ones I have are just blessedly good natured.

I'm saving up for a 125. I already have 2 cascade 1500's, more rock, air pump/stones, plenty of all the chemicals I need, food, and the gravel. Basically, I still need the tank, stand and lights. I had no idea this would become SO addictive...

thanks for your advice, though, and yes, you are absolutely right - I need a WAY bigger tank!


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