# Best drinking water filter to fill the tank?



## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

I've heard people talking about using reverse osmosis water to fill their fish tank. I've been reading about some RO systems and they claim that with the use of the attached carbon pre filter, the RO membrane filters out 95% of all the dissolved solids and chemicals in the water.

I guess my questions are:
What's the best filter? (RO, Activated Carbon, Still filters, Mechanical house filters, etc.)
Does it really help? Is it needed?

If you use, or have used one of these filters please comment...


----------



## cracks (Jan 5, 2010)

Just use dechlorinated tap water! Unless your water is real bad and you absolutly need R.O. water, nothing beats a fully cycled tank with regular water changes using dechlorinated water


----------



## PauloSilva (Apr 17, 2006)

Unless your setting up a saltwater tank than filtering your tap water is just not needed.

I'm sorry I don't have any input to your question.

I've heard some hobbyist suggest that the removal of the minerals and such in normal tap water actually has a negative effect on Africans, but this is just what I heard.


----------



## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Assuming that you are using a city water supply, you should not need to do more than they have already done other than remove the chemical treatment (chloramine?) with something like Prime. It is by far the cheapest, least hassle way to go. I do use a whole house filter on a portable pump that I use for water changes and so I can syphon as long as I want running the water back into the tank. Other than that, I feel carbon filtering is more for removing taste and odor for drinking. RO water does remove more but the down side they don't mention is that it runs bunchs more tap water down the drain than it provides to you. For fish there is no benifit that I can see for most fish.


----------



## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

Thanks. I appreciate your opinions! It looks like my survey is leaning a little bit towards "it's a waist of money" lol. Any one else want to chime in with their thoughts and opinions? I'd love to hear them, even if they're the same...


----------



## LSBoost (Jan 21, 2010)

They're not needed :lol:


----------



## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*moto_master*
I don't agree with the above. My favorite setup of all time was when I used the waste water line from an R/O system for my rift lake setups and the R/O water for the reef tank.

The rift lake cichlids truly benefited from the prefilters on the R/O unit. In my case, there was no reason not to make use of the water that would have otherwise gone down the drain, so I did and was happy about the improvement I saw in the Tanganyikans especially as compared to the same exact tanks and same exact fish on tap water with Prime. So I would suggest that although it is not strictly necessary and I wouldn't even lift a pinky finger to encourage the use of it, I will go to the effort of correcting the posts that say tap water cannot be beat by the pre-filtered stuff. It is beat... and I plan to do it again with my R/O system that is currently sending it's "waste water" down the drain.

Hope that helps.


----------



## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

Thanks Number6. I'm glad to hear your opinion. I'm personally thinking that the cleaner the water the better. I don't know that the benefits really outweigh the cost of buying the unit, but my main concern that I've heard a couple of times now is that removing all the minerals can actually hurt the fish by depriving them of minerals that they need to survive. I don't know if they get any minerals from the food.

I'm still interested in every one's thoughts and opinions, so please post!


----------



## borohands8593 (Apr 15, 2009)

Number6 said:


> *moto_master*
> I don't agree with the above. My favorite setup of all time was when I used the waste water line from an R/O system for my rift lake setups and the R/O water for the reef tank.
> 
> The rift lake cichlids truly benefited from the prefilters on the R/O unit. In my case, there was no reason not to make use of the water that would have otherwise gone down the drain, so I did and was happy about the improvement I saw in the Tanganyikans especially as compared to the same exact tanks and same exact fish on tap water with Prime. So I would suggest that although it is not strictly necessary and I wouldn't even lift a pinky finger to encourage the use of it, I will go to the effort of correcting the posts that say tap water cannot be beat by the pre-filtered stuff. It is beat... and I plan to do it again with my R/O system that is currently sending it's "waste water" down the drain.
> ...


Although I respect your specific findings, and do not have much ground to stand on since I have never used RO water, you can not come to a scientific conclusion based on one finding. Could it have been something else unforeseen, could it have been the specific species or a specific lake of species, could these results be duplicated, and what was used for a measure that they were doing "better" than tap water and prime fish? Was it increased breeding, growth or color? Were the foods the same and fed the same amounts, was the lighting and tank size the same, were WC performed at the same intervals? I do not doubt it could make a difference since Im assuming the prefilters would completely take care for chlorine and chloramines along with other waste products of our water plants.

I dont want to be negative and I am not arguing for or agaisnt, I would just like to see more data to back up all of our constant flow of opinions.

As far as removing beneficial minerals from the water such as iodide causing goiter in Tangs, if using RO water you would have to use a buffer of some sort to increase the kH and pH. These often include many of the minerals probably needed and cichlid lake salt is another good additive to replace these minerals.


----------



## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

borohands8593 said:


> I dont want to be negative and I am not arguing for or agaisnt, I would just like to see more data to back up all of our constant flow of opinions.
> 
> As far as removing beneficial minerals from the water such as iodide causing goiter in Tangs, if using RO water you would have to use a buffer of some sort to increase the kH and pH. These often include many of the minerals probably needed and cichlid lake salt is another good additive to replace these minerals.


Thanks borohands8593. I agree with the need for more data, I just didn't know that any one could really back up their beliefs. Cichlid lake salt is a good idea, I'll keep that in mind.
:fish:


----------



## kriskm (Dec 1, 2009)

It seems to me that no one has mentioned the most important factor in deciding what your water should look like, namely, what kind of fish are swimming in it. Some fish prefer soft water, others prefer hard water. Some prefer high pH, others low. I think most folks would agree that all fish like stable water. RO systems are useful for people who have hard tap water and want to keep fish that like soft water. The easiest solution is to test your tap water to see the hardness and pH of it, then buy fish that would like your tap water. That said, I have very soft tap water, and choose to keep Tanganyican fish (who like hard water, high pH). So I dechlorinate my tap water with Prime, and add the homemade cichlid buffer from the article in this site's library. Fish are happy, but it does require extra work to make sure the water is stable.


----------



## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

borohands8593 said:


> you can not come to a scientific conclusion based on one finding. Could it have been something else unforeseen, could it have been the specific species or a specific lake of species, could these results be duplicated, and what was used for a measure that they were doing "better" than tap water and prime fish? Was it increased breeding, growth or color? Were the foods the same and fed the same amounts, was the lighting and tank size the same, were WC performed at the same intervals?


"I was happy" is hardly a scientific conclusion, and I also cannot suppress my wisecracking side to say I will supply all of that information just as soon as those who claim that "there is no improvement" supply their data. 
:lol:

With that out of the way... it was not just one tank, it was all and I changed nothing else. Now, it was all the same tap water, so I agree... before I could make definitive claims I would need a larger sample size with as many tap water supplies as possible... but of course that's not possible 

That's what makes forums handy... I post my experience where it did make a difference and either someone comes along with the same experience, or they triple filtered their tap water over GAC and sediment filters and saw no improvement. What is not overly helpful IMH(humble) opinion is the posters who have not triple filtered their tap water and still say that it does nothing. :? 
not accusing anyone in particular... just pointing out what I see as an issue with forums. :thumb:


----------



## locomotive282 (Jun 2, 2009)

Let me jump in.

How is your tap water and what is the source?

Do a full test of you tap water:
Chlorine
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrates
General Hardness
Alkalinity
Phosphates
Copper

Let the results of the testing determine if you should use RO/DI or no.


----------



## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

locomotive282 said:


> Let the results of the testing determine if you should use RO/DI or no.


 Just for the record, nobody has suggested that RO/DI water is a good choice... 
I'm pretty sure we'd all agree that it actually ends up being a poor choice as it effectively limits the number of water changes or the volume that one can do on their cichlid tanks. However, the OP asked about multiple kinds of filters, not just RO/DI


----------



## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

Number6 said:


> Just for the record, nobody has suggested that RO/DI water is a good choice...
> I'm pretty sure we'd all agree that it actually ends up being a poor choice as it effectively limits the number of water changes or the volume that one can do on their cichlid tanks. However, the OP asked about multiple kinds of filters, not just RO/DI


Thanks Number6. I was asking about any and all filters, It's just that RO caught my eye. I will listen to any suggestions on what filter to get, or no filter at all.

I can't test my water at this point in time because I was going to be buying it when I moved back to Oklahoma City. Right now I'm in an apartment in Chicago. I know for a fact that a lot of areas around OKC have problems with hard water, but that's all I know about the water quality there.


----------



## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

When you say they have problems with hard water, you probably are mixing two different items. There is a hard water which is a problem to folks like my wife cleaning the bathroom. Then there is hard water which is an asset for me when I keep the African cichlids I do. It is debatable whether it is an asset or problem in my CA tank. OKC will most likely be drawing some water from wells and it will be hard but other parts of town may be drawing from surface lakes which will be quite different. It's the old story of finding what you have and then working out a way to deal with it as an asset or problem. Forums are great for getting solutions but the downside is that what works for one person's water and fish may not work for the next guy. The really tricky problem is when you get into a part of town which may pump from a source at one time of year and use another source when water gets low or some other reason. Kind of makes for a moving target.


----------



## locomotive282 (Jun 2, 2009)

moto_master said:


> Number6 said:
> 
> 
> > Just for the record, nobody has suggested that RO/DI water is a good choice...
> ...


Why would hard water be a problem? Not for African Cichlids.


----------



## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

You're right, I wasn't really meaning it was a problem for keeping fish, I just meant the problems that my family has (cleaning the bathroom). The water I will have might be perfect for keeping africans, but I won't know until I buy a house and move back there. Then I will be able to test the water. Like PfunMo said, some parts of town might get their water from a different source, and I don't know what part of town I'm moving to yet. So I won't be able to decide on any thing until I get there...


----------



## Pali (Dec 22, 2009)

The right RO filter will be beneficial, but it's not needed unless u got some nasty water or just want super tight clean water and controll whats in the water.

One have to take in mind, there are 3 different types of RO filters.

One removes Anion's, another removes Kation's and the final filter removes both.

Anion's are negative charged and kation's are positiv charged, so it really depends on whats in your water.

Most people I know who use RO units have it run the tank water, rather then the tab water and do less water changes. You also need a industrial size RO filter to fill a tank with RO water, unless u plan on takeing forever.

Also if you use a alot of RO water, one will need to replace some of the bad minerals you removed with other minerals that won't harm the fish. I used to run a RO unit that removed both Aninos and kations, makeing whats in chemstry is called agressive water. After filtration it reads 0.000 Ec meaning absolutely all minerals have been removed, there is nothing but pure h2o left. (thats a industrial filter, not something you find for privat use, fish tanks or drinking water.)

Problem is if you drink this, or put fish in it a osmosis will happen, where the water that is a strong mineral solevent. Will desolve and optain the minerals it needs to get saturated again and where will it get these minerals ? From the fish or where ever it's awailable!

So yeah it can harm the fish if used wrong, wrong filter or water parmeters, but with the right RO unit it's just great :thumb:

The RO units I have seen at the LFS is way different then the RO units I have workd with Lab wise, so I would recomand to get one there or atleast make shure that it's used for tanks if you shop online. I think one of the problems some people might have is cos they got a wrong RO unit, maybe they got it from E-bay or something and got one thats too agressive or doing something wrong.

It can also really give a kick to the planted tank, I know there is alot of cichlid keepers who don't have plants in there tanks. But if you do have plants, the RO filter will be a big help in keeping the plants fed. The minerals removed can be replaced with a larger amount of aquaplant nutrients, without polluting the water and harming the fish. But if you cycle the tank water thru the RO unit continualy, thats not a good idea as the RO unit will just remove the nutrients again. :?

Hope this is usefull for some of you


----------



## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Pali said:


> One removes Anion's, another removes Kation's and the final filter removes both.


 you must be thinking of some other type of filter as this is not what a Reverse Osmosis membrane does.



Pali said:


> Most people I know who use RO units have it run the tank water,


 now I know that you are thinking of a different kind of filter. R/O would be pointless running on an aquarium.



Pali said:


> (thats a industrial filter, not something you find for privat use, fish tanks or drinking water.)


 I get water at nearly 0 ppm... and that is with just a solid carbon block prefilter and normal Reverse Osmosis membrane...

What type of filter are you thinking about with your reply? Feel free to type the name of the filter in your native tongue and I'll look it up... thanks!


----------



## Pali (Dec 22, 2009)

@Number6

I don't have the filter anymore but it was a RO filter, these kinda filters have a "life spand" where you need to get them flushed, that was to ekspencive so when the filter did'nt work anymore it was tossed.

Got it from a lab closeing down, it was used for cleaning the waste water, befor it went to the puplic drain. Removeing all sorta chems, running at 10 Bar /145 Psi pressure.

It's different membranes or media in different filters, it's still a RO filter. It's hard for me to eksplain and I have'nt workd with this some years now. I quoted something below that should eksplain it pretty well, as I understand and what I learned in school about RO filters. It's a ion filter removeing ion's from the water (minerals / salts) and depending on what kinda RO filter, it removes difrent ion's depending on there electric charge.



> Anion and Cation Exchange
> Anion exchange and cation exchange use the chemical ion exchange process to exchange anions and cations on a "resin" bed for cations and anions of the contaminant that needs to be removed from the water. For example, in cation exchange, a cation of hardness mineral such as calcium is exchanged for two cations of sodium, effectively removing most of the calcium, and softening the water.
> 
> The anions or cations on the resin are eventually exhausted, and replaced by the anions or cations of the contaminant being removed. When this occurs, the bed must be backwashed using a concentrated solution of the base cation or anion, which recharges the bed and flushes the built-up contaminant.
> ...


http://www.purepro.net/treating_the_water.htm


----------



## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Pali said:


> It's different membranes or media in different filters, it's still a RO filter. It's hard for me to eksplain and I have'nt workd with this some years now. I quoted something below that should eksplain it pretty well, as I understand and what I learned in school about RO filters. It's a ion filter removeing ion's from the water (minerals / salts) and depending on what kinda RO filter, it removes difrent ion's depending on there electric charge.


I see your mistake. Resin filtering is not Reverse Osmosis filtering. When labs need to clean their water before running it down the drain, it is run over resins and/or GAC/solid carbon block, etc. R/O filtration is not the action of running the water through those plastic housings with filter material inside, but the act of forcing water under pressure up against the semi-permeable membrane to let pure H2O bleed through while sending 75% or more of the water down the drain. In other words, in a typical R/O filter, there is only one R/O part to the filter and then 1, 2, 3 or 4 other filters involved in the multi-stage "R/O" filter...

My point to the original poster through this whole thread is that there are benefits to the other filter types involved in a typical R/O filter, but bypassing or not using the R/O membrane. 
:thumb: 
Your points are all valid, just used the wrong name to the filter and so triggered my confusion. If you had said that "filtering tap water over resins, GAC and through regular sediment filters will be beneficial but not needed..." then the rest of your reply is bang on. 8)


----------



## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

Pali thanks for your response! I appreciate all the information! It sounds like you're talking about deionization water filters. These DI filters are another type of filter that I have been looking at, and I have found RO filters that have DI filters as part of their multi stage filtering process. I'm guessing that is where this confusion may have come from.

So it sounds like you like them, if they're needed or if I have a planted tank.
I don't have a planted tank at the moment because my Oscar likes to "redecorate" the tank every time I get things how I want them :roll: , and I don't know what my water quality is going to be like, so I'll just have to keep this information in mind when the day comes. Thank you for your help!


----------

