# New tank excitement :)



## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

Hia, so i found this site and am using the "cookie cutter for a 55 gallon tank"

i had an Oscar and pleco in a 55 gallon tank.(given to me) and lost the oscar. after tons of research, i am doing it right (hopefully!)

i am soooooo excited i want to share so, i started a "journal"

i just changed out ugly tourquise mixed rock for pfs. and LOVE it so far.

i have a fuval 305 filter coming ups. i was here today but needed signature i missed it by minutes 

Now i need to decide which body of water of fish to put in. ????? i really like Zonatum cichlids (cyprichromis???? but don't know what i can get locally.... and or what to get shipped.

so this is my journey. 

this is the last of the "ugly" rock









pfs sand









i am thinking of getting a digital thermometer and a "backup" heater but haven't researched kinds.....

join my journey.....comment/suggestions always welcome


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

That is one big pleo!

You seem set on your choice and you should get what will make you happy, but a 3 species Mbuna tank would give you a lot of enjoyment from both observation and ease of breeding.

You can't go wrong with any kind of cichlid, they all have big personality and are a joy to keep! :thumb:


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

Is that a 55 gallon wide? I've never seen that.


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

natedgg said:


> Is that a 55 gallon wide? I've never seen that.


Was also gonna ask about that tank. Seems too deep and not long enough for a 55g. Maybe a 40g breeder or the pic is kinda wacky. What the dimensions of the tank?

I have a fluval 405 and am very pleased with it so far so iim sure u will be hhappy w your new filter as well.


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

JoelRHale said:


> That is one big pleo!
> 
> You seem set on your choice and you should get what will make you happy, but a 3 species Mbuna tank would give you a lot of enjoyment from both observation and ease of breeding.
> 
> You can't go wrong with any kind of cichlid, they all have big personality and are a joy to keep! :thumb:


not set totally, i really like what i have seen and read about mbuna i am seriously considering them.


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

the tank is 36x19x18 and on the tank calculator it is 53.3gallon... so ???? i dunno.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

mountainrock said:


> the tank is 36x19x18 and on the tank calculator it is 53.3gallon... so ???? i dunno.


It'd be called a '50' on tank lists, sized at 36*18*18. I'd go ahead and call it that to avoid confusion with typical 55's. Nize tank, btw, and welcome to the forum.


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

prov356 said:


> mountainrock said:
> 
> 
> > the tank is 36x19x18 and on the tank calculator it is 53.3gallon... so ???? i dunno.
> ...


Yea!!!! thank you, i have had no idea what to say it was. 55 was the closest, so i went with it. 

that being said what modifications should i make to the "cookie cutter 55gal model" less fish? is there a 50gal set up idea list??? lol


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Since it's important to note that the footprint is important, your 50 has a larger footprint than a standard 55.

You could probably do one of the cookie cutters without any change. I may be completely off the mark here since it is a 36" tank, but if the name of the game is square foot for territory claim, I seems like it would work with the extra square half foot in your 50.


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

I got it!!!!!!










now, to put it together :-?


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

got the filter in. that was some task. i'm of old (dumb) school you get a 10gal tank from a garage sale, fill with water and plop fish in it.... lol

i had to cut hoses, prime the tank, cut the intake valve plastic to fit, measure stuff rinse bio media etc.... lol but got her workin....

now, i guess i need to test water and work on figuring out which kind of fish????

there is a lfs that wants me to buy a chemical to get water ready. um what am i supose to do?


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

Don't rely solely on chemicals. I made that mistake. You want to look into fishless cycling. There are many post on here about it and guides in the library section. It is going to take you about a month to get your tank properly prepared for fish. Trust me though, it is better to wait. It is much more work if you do it the wrong way, not to mention unhealthy for the fish.


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

Here is one article. Others with more experience can probably help you with questions and such.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... ycling.php


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

natedgg said:


> Don't rely solely on chemicals. I made that mistake. You want to look into fishless cycling. There are many post on here about it and guides in the library section. It is going to take you about a month to get your tank properly prepared for fish. Trust me though, it is better to wait. It is much more work if you do it the wrong way, not to mention unhealthy for the fish.


great! again thanks. i have seen posts related to fishless cycling but hadn't got that far.

The lady at the lfs is very pushy and told me i need this that and the other. I explained i was just looking to see what kind of fish i liked then i would research them. she told me. "you don't do the research, you bring in a water sample and then we (the store) tell you what kind of fish you can have....

ok then.....


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

I wouldn't worry about her  Just get your cycle going. There are ways to adjust your water chemistry if need be. You'll be able to get whatever fish you want, given the tank dimensions and fish availability. If you don't want to rely on the LFS to test your water, the API test kit is popular, and you'll need something anyhow to do fishless cycling.

http://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Pharmace ... B001EUG8RO


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

ok so i have read a lot about the fishless cycling and if i understand right, i add x amonia everyday depending on reading until nitrates(sp) spike then continue to add til reach 0. I am a bit confused and will continue to read until i get it right.

my next question, is i have my pleco in the tank will adding the amonia hurt her/him? (kids named it lilly  )

side note, Nate, i like your tank


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

There is currently a thread going talking about cycling. It is the 1000th fishless cycle thread. It might give you some more clarity on cycling.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=228514

I'm pretty sure you shouldn't fishless cycle with fish in the tank  At the ppm you are going to be having your ammonia at, you'll most definitely kill the pleco quickly. However, that raises a question. Did you happen to have the old filter hooked up and running on this tank from your oscar before? If you kept it going, that would of probably been seeded enough to get some fish in your tank. But it sounds like you swapped it out completely, so the bacteria are dead. If it is still running, what is it? You can run two filters on that tank (most people do here).

As far as my tank, I guess you're talking about the stock (since I'm too lazy to post a picture! ) But thanks! I like the hara's and the labs colors together. Currently have 9 hara's and 3 labs.


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

So, looking back at your first post with pictures, it looks like you do have your old filter still running. Is it still going? What is it? If the GPH are rated high enough, you might not have to fishless cycle and run your fluval in conjunction with the one you currently have.


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

ok, i have to hang on to you nate. .... =D> opcorn:

yes i had the old filter running, when i lost the oscar the water was cloudy. so, thinking the filter died, i got a new whisper filter. then began researching and bought the fluval. then decided the old filter wasn't dead just couldn't handle the size of my tank and it fit much better than the new whisper.

soooooooooo.... i have the old filter in with the fluval and 2 air stones.

i have seen the 1000 cycle thread but then lost it so thanks for the link.

i just found a 95 gal on craigslist for $175! i really enjoyed the oscar i had and would like another but promise to be a "responsible" fish owner


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

Fluval 305 filter, old whisper filter (for 40gal) 2 air stones (kinda floating ... lol) and "Lilly"


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

So, here is your situation as I see it. You have the whisper filter with a seeded bacteria colony that had been running with the Oscar and Pleco without being turned off. I'm assuming this is the one (http://www.amazon.com/Whisper-40i-tank-Filter-gallons/dp/B0002DHYH2). And yes, you are 100% correct, that is not enough filtration. That being said, it will keep your Pleco alive.

Now, about the fluval. The Pleco will give off enough ammonia to start to seed the fluval, so keep them both running. The only problem is, I'm not sure that it will be enough of a bacterial colony to handle the addition of a full load of fish for that tank (all at once). If you have no where else to house the Pleco, you can't do a fishless cycle. I guess what I'm saying is, given enough time, the fluval will cycle without you having to intervene, but the bacterial colony that gets established might not be "that big of a colony". It will only grow as large as there is food (ammonia). That is my understanding, and if anyone disagrees, please let me know. I think you have 3 options:

(1) Find a temporary home (10 gallon?) for the Pleco, move the whisper filter with her, and fishless cycle the main tank with the fluval. Most would suggest this if you can do it.

(2) Try and trust a "new tank cycling" chemical array. I tried this, it didn't work for me, but people do it. I did not use it, but I've heard good things about the Dr. Tim's One and Only. You could look into this.

(3) Add fish slowly. You can handle additional bio load, I'm not sure how much or how many fish that equates to though. If you go this route, keep both filters active. There are a couple things to keep in mind. Adding fish (and I found this out the hard way) one or two after another can create aggression problems. The new ones have to fight for territory. You can always rearrange the tank each time you add fish to ease this, but it will still occur. Another thing is adding too quickly. You'll want to make sure you aren't adding more fish than your bacterial colony can handle. That could be tricky as well. You'll need a test kit to monitor your water ammonia and nitrite levels while in this process. This is, unfortunately, how I kind of did it (started with option 2, led me to this option). I started with two, went to four, and they went through some nitrite exposure (never more than about 2ppm though and only for a day or so).

Apologies for the long post. :zz: Hope it helps!


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

I JUST picked up this 95 gal. for $150!

but.......one tank at a time  :fish: :fish:


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## sjnovakovich (Sep 13, 2010)

The stand alone would probably sell for triple that.


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

sjnovakovich said:


> The stand alone would probably sell for triple that.


whew... that makes me feel better. i was having a bit of buyers remorse because i don't even have the 55 gal tank set up fully yet.... :?


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

good buy


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## Anthraxx8500 (Feb 11, 2011)

yesir. ida bought that setup myself. too bad it wasnt a little closer lolz


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

natedgg said:


> So, here is your situation as I see it. You have the whisper filter with a seeded bacteria colony that had been running with the Oscar and Pleco without being turned off. I'm assuming this is the one (http://www.amazon.com/Whisper-40i-tank-Filter-gallons/dp/B0002DHYH2). And yes, you are 100% correct, that is not enough filtration. That being said, it will keep your Pleco alive.
> 
> Now, about the fluval. The Pleco will give off enough ammonia to start to seed the fluval, so keep them both running. The only problem is, I'm not sure that it will be enough of a bacterial colony to handle the addition of a full load of fish for that tank (all at once). If you have no where else to house the Pleco, you can't do a fishless cycle. I guess what I'm saying is, given enough time, the fluval will cycle without you having to intervene, but the bacterial colony that gets established might not be "that big of a colony". It will only grow as large as there is food (ammonia). That is my understanding, and if anyone disagrees, please let me know. I think you have 3 options:
> 
> ...


no apologies needed. but isn't there a 4th???? the one that says "everything will be fine you can just add as many fish as you like and they will all be healthy and just get along..." 

dang where is that crystal ball ???? :lol:


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

Well, i'm going for it.... i have a number of rocks i want to wash and put in tank then i'm stocking. i have 2 lfs that seems to have a few of the fish i want. I will also look into online ordering.

does anyone have pros/cons about Dave's?


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

this keeps getting harder and harder. The more research, the more i find out and the scardier (if thats a word) i get.

ok there is a male placidochromis phenochilis i LOVE and a Pseudotropheus Acei Luwala i like as well and can't have a tank without yellow labs. but are these all compatible. they look like they all come from Lake Malawi. but do haps and mbuna mix?

and can peacocks be in this mix?


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## SandBagger (Nov 17, 2010)

Cant help you with those particular fish questions. I think Nate has done a good job with his advice so far.

The only thing I would add is that article in the library says to add ammonia until it is 5ppm. 5ppm is too high. Most here would tell you to dose ammonia so your test kit reads no higher than 3ppm.

You have yourself a reliable test kit no?

As far as ordering fish online, there is a "reviews" section here on the site and discussing individual vendors is to be avoided in these threads.


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

Thanks SandBagger :thumb:

And I agree with him on everything he had mentioned. 5ppm is too high. Most moderators and admins here (very reliable) will tell you 3ppm also. Also as he mentioned, get a good test kit if you don't already have one. API is what most use I would think.

And as for review section that SandBagger mentioned, here it is:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/reviews/retailer_index.php

Depending on the mbuna, they might not work well with haps and peacocks. It really depends on the aggression levels and sizes the particular fish will get to be. You can look up any of your species types here and get a pretty good profile on them (aggression, size, temp, ph ranges, water hardness, general observations).
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/african_cichlid_genus_gallery.php

Once you've narrowed down your choices, then you can ask more particular questions about stocking ideas (not panty hose  ). There is also a "cookie cutters" article for a 75 gallon (since I think you said you are going with your 90g now) that might give you some ideas as well.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_75g.php


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> ok there is a male placidochromis phenochilis i LOVE and a Pseudotropheus Acei Luwala i like as well and can't have a tank without yellow labs. but are these all compatible. they look like they all come from Lake Malawi. but do haps and mbuna mix?
> 
> and can peacocks be in this mix?


If you stick with the Acei & Labs, you can add peacocks & haps... They are all relatively peaceful. Those two would be the only "mbuna" that I would recommend though.

I would pay close attention to the adult sizes of the peacocks & haps though.. The tanks you have are on the smaller side of the equation for those larger (as adults) fish. The Acei get large as well...


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

i do have a good test kit API??? i believe....

again, thanks all. Nate thanks for "carring me" 

i'll see if these fish are still available and compatable. i am anxious!, but not so much as to "hurt" any fish


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

no "carring"  you moved the tanks


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

Well, i went to lfs with all my reams of paper research. I had an idea of the species i wanted and that were compatible. I wanted to see what the lfs had or if i should order online.

i got there and none of the names matched what i had learned. lots of common names and then many of those i never heard. i ended up surrendering my tank to the fish store owner and he helped me stock with fish that are compatable. 

sooooo without further a-doo (sp???)


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

What are the orangeish/yellow fish?


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

cantrell00 said:


> What are the orangeish/yellow fish?


duh, that would probably help :roll:

the yellow are Metriaclima msobo pscudotrophens (2 female 1 male ... male will turn blue, you can see a tip on the fin but prob not in this picture)

the erridesent blue are: crytocara (sp??) moori again 2 female 1 male.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Ok.. Thought so... Looked like either Msobo or Johanni...


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

cantrell00 said:


> Ok.. Thought so... Looked like either Msobo or Johanni...


actually i want to get Johanni, but they were a bit more expensive so i decided to start with these six then if all goes well i will be adding Johanni thursday


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

I would stay away from them if you are keeping the Msobo.. Msobo & Johanni females look a lot alike... The males can too for that matter..


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

Is that in your 95 or 50 gallon? Looks good. Keep up on testing water to watch for spikes. Remember, your bio colonies aren't fully established yet as your fluval has only been up and running for 8 days. Don't rely fully on the fluval for at least another 3 weeks. Leave them both in. Hopefully your smaller filter will carry you for now.

Good luck. :wink:


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## mountainrock (May 1, 2011)

Thats the 50. checking water so far so good . keeping fingers crossed


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