# 2 female cons, firemouth, what else?



## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

I am in the process of transitioning from a 36 gallon tropical community to a 75 gallon cichlid tank. I am trying to figure if I want to go CA or Malawi. My favorite fish is the convict but I don't want to deal with breeding and over the top aggression. If I started with 2 female cons and a firemouth what else could I add from there? Salvini? Also would a rubberlipped Pleco work or would I be better off with a bristlenose since it has some "armor"? Thanks for the help!!!!!


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

Salvini could work out. May also want to look into servums, jack dempseys, and rainbow cichlids. A lot will depend on the individual fish in the tank.

As far as a pleco (I have only ever had a common pleco), but most would say that the bristlenose are kind of the best for what most people are looking for when they want a pleco in the first place. They clean up every well and don't get as large as some others and don't get to an age were they stop 'doing their job' and just start adding to the mess. That is what happens with common plecos (and why I will never own a common one again).

-Cage


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Great thanks! I really like the jack dempseys but really wanna try and stay clear of fish that could potentially grow to 10 inches or more. I'd like to stick to ones that max out at a max of about 6 inches. Do jacks really tend to grow to about that big in an aquarium or is that more in the wild?


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

Male JD'S get 10 in. yes. And females are said to be about 8 in. when they are in aquariums.

-Cage


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I agree with what cage has said thus far...

2x Female Cons, 1x Firemouth, 1x Salvini, 1x BN Pleco would stock a 75gal nicely. I would try and get a female Salvini as well as they tend to be more vibrant color wise. An easy and pretty reliable way to sex them is to look for a black blotch on the dorsal fin. Females will have a black blotch while males will not.

Good luck!


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Wow ok so 4 fish and a Pleco in a 75 is fully stocked...I figured I would be close but maybe another 1, or 2 max. Can I ask you guys is having 4 fish in a 75 worth it or am I better off going mbuna? Could I add some sort of dither fish to occupy the top of the tank? Something like giant danios...I'm not questioning your advice, just wanting to make sure I go in a direction that I'll be happy with.


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## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

dwl0222 said:


> I am in the process of transitioning from a 36 gallon tropical community to a 75 gallon cichlid tank. I am trying to figure if I want to go CA or Malawi. My favorite fish is the convict but I don't want to deal with breeding and over the top aggression. If I started with 2 female cons and a firemouth what else could I add from there? Salvini? Also would a rubberlipped Pleco work or would I be better off with a bristlenose since it has some "armor"? Thanks for the help!!!!!


If I may add convicts will breed with any available "Male" so it may be possible get some breeding activity. Why not look for a male convict, yes I know not as colorful? Then possible look for another species or may be two Severum or two Firemouths. Just food for thought.


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Really? The reason for wanting the two females was to avoid feeding and aggression. So I just want to be clear on what your suggesting, go with a male and female convict or take out the females altogether and just go with 1 male con? Can you list out exactly what your suggesting just to be more clear? Thanks for the help it's much appreciated!


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## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

dwl0222 said:


> Really? The reason for wanting the two females was to avoid feeding and aggression. So I just want to be clear on what your suggesting, go with a male and female convict or take out the females altogether and just go with 1 male con? Can you list out exactly what your suggesting just to be more clear? Thanks for the help it's much appreciated!


 Go with only 1 male convict (solo) no other convicts.

2 female convicts will pair up and lay eggs together and do the whole breeding thing too!

I've seen female convicts paired up w/ huge "Red Devil" males!


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Good point made by Steffano. Female cons have a reputation for pairing up with other males regardless of species. The Firemouth would probably be the most likely candidate out of your listed stock.

I do however feel 4-6 Medium sized CA's would be fully stocked as we are only talking about a 4ft tank. CA's don't do well when overstocked like some people do with Mbuna.

If your wanting to do pairs, you could do two, maybe three pairs depending on species. Besides the cichlids themselves, you could also add some dither fish such as a shoal of larger Tetra species, Giant Danios, ect. They will help round out the tank and add some movement as well.


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## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

CjCichlid said:


> Good point made by Steffano. Female cons have a reputation for pairing up with other males regardless of species. The Firemouth would probably be the most likely candidate out of your listed stock.
> 
> I do however feel 4-6 Medium sized CA's would be fully stocked as we are only talking about a 4ft tank. CA's don't do well when overstocked like some people do with Mbuna.
> 
> If your wanting to do pairs, you could do two, maybe three pairs depending on species. Besides the cichlids themselves, you could also add some dither fish such as a shoal of larger Tetra species, Giant Danios, ect. They will help round out the tank and add some movement as well.


Yep I agree with *CJ*, 4 fish with some dithers is the best mix, either 2 pairs or 4 different speices of med. Central Americans. Have you thought about Nicaraguensis or Robertsoni, both very colorful, may be ditch the Salvini they can be aggressive sometime, though I love them?


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Wow that's amazing that two female cons would still pair up...so much to learn with these fish! I do like the Nicaragua and Roberts but the can reach ten inches and I was really hoping to stay around a max of 6 inches. Actually I didn't really want todo pairs, I don't want to deal with breeding and fry.the convicts are my favorite that's really the reason why I wanted two. And since I wanted two I figured females would be best together. Guess I have some thinking to do haha


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

I've had many female convicts pair up with each other (in the abscence of a male convict or in the prescence of an unsuitable, much smaller, young male). IME, they proved to be no problem at all. Not nearly as aggressive as a breeding pair. Bear in mind the eggs fungus in about 2 days, so it doesn't last long nor is their ever free swimming fry to defend. After enough failed attempts, a pair of females will probably give up, or at least slow down in the frequency of laying eggs. Female cons can be quite competetive with each other, so as far as aggression problems, it's just as likely you'll have aggression problems between the two......often larger groups works out better then just 2, though you certainly can have problems between them in larger groups as well. But long term, there generally much more compatible with each other then male cons are. Also had 2 female salvinis pair up with each other at one time

The idea that convicts are more inclined to crossbreed then many other CA, is bologne, IMO. Who do you supose these convicts are pairing up with? :lol: In 30 some years of keeping cons, not once have I had a con pair up with another species......but I have had Texas X urophthalmus and dovii X red terror produce offspring, and had texas and jag as well as salvini and jewel  ( I know that is odd :lol: ) pair up and live as a pair , defending territory for quite some time, though neither of these pairs ever layed eggs. If you check on line, you can find examples of just about any CA cross. And male cons no different then female cons.

If you want to avoid breeding and limit aggression problems, then stock only females. IME, a male con can become quite aggressive......more so then a pair of female cons. Salvini, IME, is an even more aggressive species. If your really trying to limit aggression and improve your odds of success, then definately choose a female salvini over a male. Still a very aggressive fish for a 75 gal.! Actually a pretty good chance female cons wouldn't even be able to hold territory with a sal in the tank once the fish are older and larger.


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Wow thanks for all the help! So your saying even the salvini could be a problem in a 75 gallon? So where do I go from ere then...I wonder if maybe the central American cichlids are meant more for 100+ gallon tanks and I should go in the direction of mbuna...decisions decisions haha


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

dwl0222 said:


> So your saying even the salvini could be a problem in a 75 gallon? So where do I go from ere then...I wonder if maybe the central American cichlids are meant more for 100+ gallon tanks and I should go in the direction of mbuna...


Sure a salvini in a 75 gal. COULD be a problem, with other rival CA. Short term with young small fish probably not......over the course of a number of years, with large adult CA, the odds change considerably. Cichlids are aggressive fish. You house more aggressive species, the chances of encountering aggression problems increases. Your always rolling the dice. Depends on a lot of things. Of course you can choose mbuna, like kenyi, auratus or bumblebee in a 75 gal. and probably have even worse odds of encountering aggression problems.

The very large aggressive CA certainly are 'meant' for large tanks.......seldom do people have success housing them together in tanks under a 100 gal. But smaller, less aggressive species, especially if you choose females, can definately be kept in 75 gal. with a good chance of success. Female nics, for example, not a big fish, has better chance of not becoming overly aggressive, compared to a salvini. Maybe HRP instead of convicts would be an option (?); rainbow cichlid instead of firemouth(?) Or consider some SA fish such as blue acara and festivum as well. Some non-cichlids , such as blue gourami, paradise fish, giant danio, tiger barbs, BN pleco ect.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I completely agree with bernie...

Could a Salvini work out long term in a 75gal with a couple other cichlids? Sure... Could it also be a complete terror and murder every other fish in the tank? Also a possibility, as every fish is different and has an individual personality.

If you really want a Salvini, I wouldn't hesitate to try it. Just be prepared to move/trade in fish if things don't work out. Again though, this goes for ANY setup and combination of fish.

I personally would aim for four small to medium sized CA cichlids in a tank that size. I'll list a few that come to mind...

- Any Cryptoheros species such as Sajica, Cutteri, Nanoluteus, Honduran Red Points, ect.
- Any Thorichthys species such as Meeki, Ellioti, Pasionis, ect.
- Archocentrus Multispinosa
- Hypsophrys Nicaraguensis

And if you wanted to try something like a Salvini, why not? If it doesn't work, trade her in to your LFS. You simply won't know until you try.

Good luck! And please... Don't go Mbuna!


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

No no, I'm not set on the salvini...the fish I'm set on is a convict. If I do ca I would definitely want a convict, preferably female for color, aggression and size issues. Would say and hrp, firemouth, female cichlid work with another species? Maybe an SA cichlid or two? Sorry I'm kinda new to cichlids, have done a ton of research but just want to make sure I do the right mix.


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

How about this setup? I am kinda going away from my no big fish and no breeding but here goes... 1 jack dempsey, 1 firemouth, pair of convicts, 1 or 2 bristlenose plecos. I'm hoping that the firemouth and jd can help themselves to the convict fry so I am not overrun lol. Would j have room for dithers?


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I would scratch the pair of Cons and just go with one. They really are a pain when spawning. I've had a single pair claim an entire 135gal!

So your stocking would look like this...

1x JD
1x Firemouth
1x Convict
1x Bristlenose
Then you could add a good sized shoal of dithers (6+). I would also try and keep all the cichlids the same sex, either all male or all female.


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Ok I'll take your advice on the breeding haha. Thanks for the input! Is 1 bristlenose enough? With those 3 cichlids am i maxed out? I was hoping to get 4 in there. Will a salvini or hrp work? Or take out the jd and replace with 2 smaller fish. Not second guessing your opinion, just want to have as much diversity as possible.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

One Bristlenose is definitely sufficient, as they create a lot of waste. With those 3 cichlids and dithers, I think you'll be perfectly stocked. Could you add another cichlid, possibly. You could try a Salvini as well and see if it works out, just be prepared to move any trouble makers. I wouldn't do an HRP though as they are very similar to Cons.

Maybe look into adding some kind of catfish if your wanting a few others...


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Ok great, ill probably stay on the safe side and stay with the jd, firemouth and convict. What combo would be best as far as male/female? I do have two Cory cats and a rubberlipped pleco in my 36 gallon...would they work?


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I would get either all males or all females. Which you choose doesn't really matter IMO. I'd probably do all males as there more "showy". The Rubberlipped Pleco will work just fine. What kind of Cories are they? Some people have good luck with them when it comes to CA, others don't. I'd probably skip them as they will be bite size once the JD matures which will be bad for both fish, as the Cories have spines in their dorsal fins.


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

They are albino Cory cats...yeah that doesn't sound like an easy snack to digest haha. Thanks for all your help! One more question, what is the best way to Rock scape a ca tank? I have white sand ready and I'm collecting medium to large odd shaped river rocks so far...


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Just browse through the CA tank pics here... Or check out Youtube. There are some seriously awesome vids of CA tanks on there. I also like to use a good amount of driftwood as well as rocks.

Here's a pic of my CA setup...


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Wow looks amazing!!! Thanks I'll be you tubing soon! Haha


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