# C Maronii in a 33 long



## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

I literally stumbled onto a 33L (48 x 13 x 13) at my LPS. Just had to have it.

I have in QT 4 juvie Keyholes ranging from 1 1/2 to 1 3/4" in size. I also have one that I have had for a bit over 2 months and it is about 2 1/2".

Will this work for my "colony" of 5?
My reading tells me that they pair and don't harem. That they are a substrate spawner and they like soft water. But I'm not finding much else. Probably not looking in the right places.
For now I know the tank will be plenty big enough and hopefully a pair will form. I can remove any outcasts and put them in my 75.
My water however, may hinder the process. PH out of the tap 7.8 When it sits for 24hrs it goes to 8.2 GH 180 KH 240
They all are feeding and active in their current respective abodes and have adjusted to the water very well.

I don't try and fight the water as I figure it's better if it's stable. The water never fluctuates lower than 8 once it is in the tanks.
Is there a way to soften the water a bit without chemicals or RO?
Tried a product from SeaChem quite awhile ago. And yes it did bring the PH down to 7.8 but the hard stuff precipitated out of the water and made a huge mess of everything. White crusty stuff on every surface inside the tank. Won't do that again.

I'm betting everybody is going to say SHELLIES, and that is a serious thought. But I so would love to see these little fish do their thing.

Can this work? 
Thanks, Deb

Three of the four juvies


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## notho2000 (Dec 8, 2012)

One solution is to obtain an RO (reverse osmosis ) unit and mix RO water with your regular water until you get the desired parameters. Also, putting peat moss pellets (in a media bag) in your filter will help soften the water and lower pH.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

notho2000 said:


> One solution is to obtain an RO (reverse osmosis ) unit and mix RO water with your regular water until you get the desired parameters. Also, putting peat moss pellets (in a media bag) in your filter will help soften the water and lower pH.


Thank you, notho, I will explore both of those options.

And BTW those are some wonderful fish you have. If I ever get to Canada I want to see your basement!  or wherever the fish room is.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

With water that hard the only option to soften it is to use ro or rain to cut your tap water (I have similar water) peat will be a waste of time and money as your water has such a great buffering capacity. Although once you have softened the water peat is good for the overall health of your fish and their eggs as the humic substances it releases have antifungal properties.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

OllieNZ said:


> With water that hard the only option to soften it is to use ro or rain to cut your tap water (I have similar water) peat will be a waste of time and money as your water has such a great buffering capacity. Although once you have softened the water peat is good for the overall health of your fish and their eggs as the humic substances it releases have antifungal properties.


Ok Ollie, starting to get this. Chemistry was never my forte 

So If I cut my tap water with RO to get it down to a reasonable hardness, will I then need to buffer it to keep it stable? And need to add trace elements?
Would think that there would be enough trace since my water seems to have so much now.
Thanks


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

You wont need to add anything at all. Are you able to get a conductivity/ total dissolved solids reading for your water? For my water I have a tds of approx 400ppm so I use 20%tap for a tds of appox 80ppm for my apitsos.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

TDS, I did not know about a test for that. But I have just emailed my water co. for the water quality report. I assume TDS will be on the report. Might take a day or two. But I'll be back with the info.
Thanks


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

If they don't give you tds on the report they should give you conductivity, as you don't know the true conversion factor for their meter (unless they give it to you) take the conductivity reading and multiply by 0.67 to give you approximate tds. Tbh I'm not sure why tds is not used more especially in relation to soft water fish it is commonly used in the dwarf shrimp worlds as a lot of the high grade cardinia species are line/inbreed and very sensitive to their water conditions and daily measuring of tds (you can buy handheld pens cheaply on ebay) is used to ensure there are not large increases in tds which can hamper breeding and outright kill shrimp. I've just had a bit more of a look into C Maronii and it seem they are naturally a black water species and come from water with negligible tds. I'd be tempted to set the tank up using inert sand, loads of leaf litter, plenty of manzanita branches with a couple of largish flat rocks for spawing sites and floating plants for light diffusion. Then 10% water change at the time using pure ro to get them used slowly used to the soft conditions. I wouldn't bother remineralising at all for these guys.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

Hi Ollie,
Well got the report, no TDS or conductivity. I then emailed the manager and the response was "It's not regulated so we don't worry about it" :x

I am just going to get my own meter. 
The information you have given has been very helpful, I now have a starting point. 
Thanks so very much and if I run into trouble or have questions I will bump this post.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Are you able to link or email me the report I'll be able to come up with something for you.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

This is the link to the water co.

http://hillwatercorp.com/

Warning, when I use my win8 the report is gobaldey ****, I can see it on win7 though.
Thank you.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Not alot that's of use in there. I can't believe they don't even give you a hardness reading


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

OllieNZ said:


> Not alot that's of use in there. I can't believe they don't even give you a hardness reading


That was my assessment of the of the report also. I did ask the manager specifically about the hardness as I was wondering how close my tests were. He didn't have a clue. I guess we are just backwoods here. 

Thanks for looking. I will go with Plan A and get a meter.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

It's cycling!
TDS right out of the tap is 325. In the tank now is 430? This is no RO yet, I would venture that is from the ammonia, Nitrites, leaf litter and such?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Whoa, tank looks nice!


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Whoa, tank looks nice!


THANK YOU, Iggy!
I'm learning from the best on this forum.
Once it's cycled and fish are in I want to replace the plastic plants with live ones. Thinking of going with some duckweed also.
A few of my other fish will appreciate the salad if the duckweed takes off.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Anything that dissolves will add to your tds. I'd get the fish in there before getting ro so there won't be a big tds difference between where they are now and this tank and then slowly lower the tds.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

OllieNZ said:


> Anything that dissolves will add to your tds. I'd get the fish in there before getting ro so there won't be a big tds difference between where they are now and this tank and then slowly lower the tds.


That's the plan, Ollie.
Thanks for your input, I may have an inkling as to what I'm doing now.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Tank looks like it will be a good home for the fish. Get those plants in there no point in waiting. Floaters like amazon frogbit are a good choice.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

They seem to be enjoying it! Even got a bit of circle dancing. But guess it's just territorial for now.
I put my 6 Bleeding Heart Tetras in with the Keyholes. I am going plant shopping tomorrow.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Nice to see the fish appreciating your hard work. Hopefully you can get them breeding.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Cool pictures Deb. What's the lighting? It seems very bright.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

Hey Iggy,
The camera may have been fooled as it was before daylight and the tank was the only light in the room.
That being said,
I have a coralife 30" dual T5 on this tank with one 18 watt Colormax lamp and one 18 watt 6700K lamp in it. The bulbs are going on a year old also if this makes a difference.
Just snapped this, normal room light and overcast skies. (The sand is white)
I am going to get some type of floating plants to help diffuse the light, but if you think I need to switch bulbs, I'm all for it.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I'm not much on lighting advice. Tough to tell where the fixture is, but moving it all the way to the front of the tank will give the tank a bit more depth.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> I'm not much on lighting advice. Tough to tell where the fixture is, but moving it all the way to the front of the tank will give the tank a bit more depth.


Ah, gotcha. The light is centered. We''ll see what this looks like with real plants in a few days.
Thanks Iggy
and thank you Ollie!


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Assuming the bulbs are t5no you'll be fine for light. I wouldn't worry about the age of the bulbs modern bulbs have around 10% degradation over their life. Needing new bulbs after 12 months is one of the biggest fallacies in the aquarium industry along with needing loads of light and grow bulbs for plants.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

Good call on the frogbit, Ollie. The fish like them and so do I. They remind me of Man o War, if I can keep these plants alive I will get some more. Got a couple other kind of plants also.
Here's the new look.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Looks great with the live plants! Good luck!


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Looks perfect. You may find going forward some plants work better than others just scrap the ones that don't work and add more of the ones that do. Your floating plants will tell you when the plants need feeding.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Looks great with the live plants! Good luck!


Thanks Iggy!


OllieNZ said:


> Looks perfect. You may find going forward some plants work better than others just scrap the ones that don't work and add more of the ones that do. Your floating plants will tell you when the plants need feeding.


Thanks Ollie, I may well end up with just floaters.

Hopefully the next time I post to this it will be with pics of spawn.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

OMG, we have eggs on an oak leaf, right in front where I can see all the action!





 :dancing: :fish: :fish: :dancing:


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

That's some hot action!


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## joemc (Sep 23, 2012)

great series of pictures in a great thread, they are a beautiful underrated little fish well done your tank is something to be proud of


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

joemc said:


> great series of pictures in a great thread, they are a beautiful underrated little fish well done your tank is something to be proud of


Thank you. They ARE truly underrated! 


Iggy Newcastle said:


> That's some hot action!


You have no idea. The little miss made him crazy! She paraded among the 7 others for almost 2 hours while he bravely defended her honor. She finally decided he was worthy and joined him at the nest sight, they then both proceded to harass all comers.
After another 2 hours of constant interuption, I removed 5 and left the pair with 2 targets. At which point they really got down to business and produced the eggs, 12 hours start to finish.

So, should I leave it as is or remove the 2 extras? Giving the whole tank to just the pair?
My thanks to all.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

Much saddness this morning. There were some white eggs and mom ate ALL of the eggs in her attempts to clean house. 
Maybe next time she will do better.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

That's too bad Deb. Better luck next time...

Guessing you're leaving the extras in for now. As long as they aren't being excessively harassed.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> That's too bad Deb. Better luck next time...
> 
> Guessing you're leaving the extras in for now. As long as they aren't being excessively harassed.


Thanks Iggy, they are still very young, So next time..............

I have left the extras in, all is back to normal now. Was really getting worried about them, they took two days of pounding. I think if I get another spawn they will have to come out. Your thoughts on this? Will these fish need a "foe" to keep the bond? Some other target maybe? I really don't want to lose any of the other keyholes.


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## Bd79 (Apr 11, 2011)

I've had keyholes lay eggs about 10 times, 3 different pairs, but I've never seen wrigglers or free swimmers. Hope you have better luck!


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

Bd79 said:


> I've had keyholes lay eggs about 10 times, 3 different pairs, but I've never seen wrigglers or free swimmers. Hope you have better luck!


Arrrrg, not the best outcome for you, thanks for the best wishes. I do have another possible 2 pairs coming along so we are going to keep trying.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Nice work. I'm sure they'll get the hang of it.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

How are things going for you?


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

Well, it's going. Fish and plants are doing well.
Pair #1 spawned a second time with the same result. I removed them to their own 20 gal L. Immediately following their departure a second pair spawned and eggs also gone in 2 days.
Both pairs are now looking like they are getting ready to go again, so fingers crossed.
By my calculations they are about 8 mos old, so we will see what happens.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Cichlid Debby said:


> Well, it's going. Fish and plants are doing well.
> Pair #1 spawned a second time with the same result. I removed them to their own 20 gal L. Immediately following their departure a second pair spawned and eggs also gone in 2 days.
> Both pairs are now looking like they are getting ready to go again, so fingers crossed.
> By my calculations they are about 8 mos old, so we will see what happens.


That's good to hear, hopefully like alot of captive bred angels it will take them a few goes to get the hang of it and then they're good from there


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