# Satanoperca parents sort of...



## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

These two have been staying side by side on either side of the rock where they deposited their eggs. They won't let anyone near. This morning she (I assume) picked them up and is holding them. They're still chasing everyone else out of the area but causing no harm.

I'm curious to see if I actually see any fry. I don't plan on separating the fish or doing anything particular to try to get fry. I'll just see what happens. Has anyone had fry develop with these in a cichlid community tank?


----------



## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

I meant has anyone had fry live in a community tank without being eaten. I know plenty of people have had them spawn. Was just curious if they could protect fry or is it impossible with other hungry cichlids.


----------



## Ronzo (Sep 8, 2013)

mdog;

Those guys look great...the Satanoperca has always been one of my favorite cichlids...gotta love those lips!...I can't help with experience you're asking for, but if your fry make it (and I hope they do, and you do your part to help that situation...like taking advantage of the $1 a Gal tank sale at Petco), I might offer to take some off your hands at a future CT gettogether. Good Luck!


----------



## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Well that's tempting - I don't even need to go to the sale. I've got 2 empty tanks and extra filters and heaters ready to go but I wasn't planning on starting any more up. Hmmmmmm......... now I'm thinking.

Maybe if someone came along and told me the process they've used successfully I might have to try.


----------



## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Any Satanoperca keepers out there? I'm looking for some help if there is.

The smaller of the two has been holding the eggs for about 10 days now and as of last night it looks like the larger one is also holding. Could they be sharing them? They both obviously have something in their mouths. Will they protect fry if they actually release fry?

I have 3 of these in a 125 and the two parents are chasing the 3rd and smallest one. It's pretty mellow chasing, not relentless and no damage but the fish does show it's dark stress markings.

Will these 2 stay a pair and always hassle the third or will it be back to normal after breeding is done. I'm wondering if the 3 will work long term or if I should get rid of the smallest one, or possibly add another so there isn't one odd guy out. If they don't remain a pair than I suppose it's not an issue.


----------



## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

Satanoperca don't hold fry as long as African mouthbrooders because the eggs don't have as large a yolk sac. I would expect them to be releasing the fry very soon. Some are known to be biparental brooders, apparently yours are one of them! The fact that they were able to protect the eggs suggests that other fish in the tank weren't aggressive enough to steal eggs. However, they may be hesitant to release the fry if the tank is too crowded. If that happens, the fry may starve to death inside the protection of their parents.

I would get another one or two if you have them available at the same size. They prefer to be in groups by nature. However, the pair will stay apart from the group while they have a spawn. Once the fry are old enough to take care of themselves (or once someone removes them) the pair will go back with the group until ready to spawn again. Most say that the same pair will stay together and always spawn with one another. It was many decades ago, and I only had the pair at the time, so I can't say if that's true.


----------



## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Mr Chromedome - thanks for the good information. You're right, there are not very aggressive fish in the tank and it didn't seem very hard for these two to keep the other fish away from the eggs.

Now only the larger of the two is holding and the other is eating again. I don't know if she(?) ate the eggs, gave them to the other one, or released them and they were eaten.

If I wanted to try to raise the fry next time what would I do? Do you need to put the two in another tank first and wait for them to spawn, or do you transfer the fish sometime after the eggs are laid?


----------



## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

They will pass the fry back and forth, taking turns so that both can still feed. They are larvophilus mouthbrooders, they don't pick up eggs but brood the wigglers when they hatch. When the fry are old enough to start swimming, they will release them to feed but still take them back into the mouth if they sense danger. It is a really cool sight to see!

If you have a tank available, I'd watch from some distance to see if they are releasing swimming fry when they don't see you. Catch the holding fish with a fine mesh net, he/she may spit the fry so they can "escape". (At this point you have the fry in the net and can move them separately.) If the holding fish doesn't spit, use a bowl to lift the fish out of the tank. Don't lift it out with the net, that stress can cause reflex swallowing of the fry. By keeping the fish in water, he/she might be all right with the move. Or, next time you see the pair cleaning a rock, you can try moving them before they spawn. Once the eggs are on the rock you might be able to move the whole family, but that is usually risky.

Good Luck!


----------



## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Mr Chromedome said:


> It is a really cool sight to see!


Well, you sure have that right! I saw it last night and that was really, really cool! The larger fish released a whole cloud of fry twice, and then pulled them all back in.

You said they will release the fry to feed, so I assume they do this when I feed the tank? Or do they arbitrarily release them to try to find little bits of food any time? I'm wondering what those fry will eat in a tank not geared toward raising fry. Should I grind up some flake really fine and maybe they will release the fry when I drop it in the tank?


----------



## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

They release the fry to forage anytime they feel there is no threat. It may take them a while to figure out that it's safe to release the kids while you are standing there.

If you crush the flakes into almost a powder, the fry will find the bits when they are out foraging. Sometimes the parents will grab food and chew it up, then spit it out for the fry.


----------



## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Mr Chromedome - more great information, thanks. They are letting the fry out pretty regularly now. I'm amazed the other fish haven't figured out how to grab the fry. If one gets too close they suck up the fry and chase the intruder away. But.... if the other cichlids attacked the fry all at once I think protecting them would be a lost cause.

We'll see what happens.


----------

