# DIY stand with screws or nails?



## duds (Apr 16, 2010)

I'm planning on building a stand for my 75 gallon with a 2x4 frame and plywood skin. Is there any issue using nails instead of screws?


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## Coln (Dec 17, 2007)

Maybe use nails to hold in position but screws or bolts are the way to be on the safe side


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## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

I second the screws! Nails are not a good choice!

RBFG


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## Imaconvict (Feb 1, 2010)

I used 3" wood screws and wood glue for the 2x4 framing and finishing nails on the plywood skin. The 3" screws would be minimum length IMO being that the 2x4's I used were actually 1.5"x3.5". Good luck and make sure to plan for your filter to fit under the stand if you're using a can.


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## duds (Apr 16, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I entirely agree about nails being bad. If houses are framed using nails why not tank stands? Stands don't see a lot of movement in their life, so I can't really see the nails working their way loose. Is there another side to this I'm not seeing? Any specific weakness that a nailed stand might have?


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## AF_medic (Jun 8, 2006)

Houses are framed using nails, but in such a way that the nails themselves aren't actually holding up any weight, they just hold things together. Nails are fine if you design your stand in such a way that the wood itself is holding the weight, and not the nails. Screws are just easier and safer. Good luck!


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## adnanx (Aug 9, 2004)

My stand is held together by hopes and dreams.


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## Coln (Dec 17, 2007)

adnanx said:


> My stand is held together by hopes and dreams.


 Isn't everyones


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## Imaconvict (Feb 1, 2010)

duds said:


> Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I entirely agree about nails being bad. If houses are framed using nails why not tank stands? Stands don't see a lot of movement in their life, so I can't really see the nails working their way loose. Is there another side to this I'm not seeing? Any specific weakness that a nailed stand might have?


Nails aren't necessarily "bad" it's just that screws give you more confidence and remove most risk of the stand coming apart. As far as stands not seeing much movement, that depends on where you're located, I have had a whole lot of movement lately, the easter earthquake shook the snot out of my tank and stand but I gained alot of confidence in my set up after the shakin stopped.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

duds said:


> Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I entirely agree about nails being bad. If houses are framed using nails why not tank stands? Stands don't see a lot of movement in their life, so I can't really see the nails working their way loose. Is there another side to this I'm not seeing? Any specific weakness that a nailed stand might have?


Houses are framed using nails for reasons not relevant to building a stand. In framing most nails are vertical or toenailed in close to vertical. Modern nails with their glue coating and thinner crossection are more like screws than their traditional counterparts were. Stands typically have more of a load than a house per square foot.

Actually screws are used more and more in construction than they once were. Nails can be shot in place in a fraction of a second so even powerdrivers don't overcome a nail's innate advantage of speed. As autofeed screwguns become more versatile, that advantage may become less.

However in a small project like a stand, nails have no advantage over screws. The exception would be heat activated coated wire nails that are countersunk for finish work. Screws can be backed out. Carriage bolts can be removed to make a stand into smaller transportable components.

If you are gluing, clamps are much better than either screws or nails.

For a stand, screws and carriage bolts make more sense than a nail does.


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## duds (Apr 16, 2010)

Thanks again for the replies. It's great to tap into the collective knowledge through this site. I'll be using screws, as everyone is suggesting.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Really depends on the screw that you are using. Some screws are not structural and are not allowed in the construction of homes. Except for dry wall and decking the only other place where a screw is common would be nailers and cabinets. I would consider using Deck Screws first when building a cabinet before nails but would not lose a moment of sleep if nails were used.

In regards to using nails when framing residential construction anyone who used screws to support Rafters or Floor Joists will not be working on my house. SimpsonStrongtie makes structural screws which most Building Depts. accept in lew of nails for framing but when cost is considered even hand nailing is cheaper.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

fox said:


> Really depends on the screw that you are using. Some screws are not structural and are not allowed in the construction of homes. Except for dry wall and decking the only other place where a screw is common would be nailers and cabinets. I would consider using Deck Screws first when building a cabinet before nails but would not lose a moment of sleep if nails were used.
> 
> In regards to using nails when framing residential construction anyone who used screws to support Rafters or Floor Joists will not be working on my house. SimpsonStrongtie makes structural screws which most Building Depts. accept in lew of nails for framing but when cost is considered even hand nailing is cheaper.


Deck screws have a bad habit of popping their heads. There are some brands that keep improving, but wood screws may be worth the extra cost and time. Most nails are not structural and are not allowed in the construction of homes. It's good to point out that not just any screw or nail, but one appropriate for the job should be used. Still, nails are not that impressive. I was installing fiberglass insulation and accidentally stapled my finger to a stud. Right through the fingernail. When I tried to pull my finger off the stud, the stud slipped out of the wall, leaving all those nails showing, top, bottom, and wall. The nails didn't seem very strong. To get my finger off the board, I had to go to a doorway and straddle the stud across the entrance. My finger barely hurt, until I got the staple out.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Deck screws have a bad habit of popping their heads.


Tell me all about it, if I had a dime for every popped screw head I needed to replace the wife and I would be living in our second home in Maui. Hardwoods and screws do not play well with each other BTDT.



> Most nails are not structural and are not allowed in the construction of homes.


This part confuses me as according to the WFCM which I need to reference in every project I propose to the Town Building Depts nails are the preferred method of attachment and I need to provide a nailing schedule with every plan I submit stating what size and spacing are to be used.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

fox said:


> > Most nails are not structural and are not allowed in the construction of homes.
> 
> 
> This part confuses me as according to the WFCM which I need to reference in every project I propose to the Town Building Depts nails are the preferred method of attachment and I need to provide a nailing schedule with every plan I submit stating what size and spacing are to be used.


 I reused your sentence, because you have to use the right screw or the right nail for each job. It applies to both, and you just admitted it. You could not frame a wall with six penny finish nails. You could not screw sheet metal together with 4" drywall screws. Most screws and most nails would be inappropriate for any particular function. Seems obvious to me. Nails are good to tack a stand together while you predrill and countersink for screws.


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## auratum (Jul 6, 2006)

Another type of screw I have become fond of is a hybrid between the traditional screw and a lag bolt. I built my deck with them (the supports under the deck) and they are awesome. GRK was the brand and they are hex drive. I would use these over lags when fastening larger lumber together. They are self tapping and come in very long lengths if needed. Here is a link showing them - http://www.grkfasteners.com/en/RSS_1_2_information.htm


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## TexasFishGuy (Aug 20, 2010)

As stated in replies before, the right screw/nail...and methods need to be used. Don't try and drive a 3+ inch screw into hardwood without a pilot and countersink hole. Screws build up lots more heat than nails because of the slower installation and more surface area...as nails are usually driven fast, have less surface area, as well as usually having a larger core diameter than a screw of similar size, making them less likely to break from the heat stress.

But done properly, and with the right screws, I would go with screws...nails can be worked loose over time by movement and vibration. When doing trim, caulking always helps hold trim in place after the installation, if it's going to be painted. But when it comes to stain grade material, I almost always use glue along with the trim nails, and use S1 trim screws if it really needs to hold.


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## KiDD (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm easy..

Use Nails if you have a Nail Gun and Air.. Use Screws if you got a good Drill.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

If you use 3/4" Finish grade plywood you will not need and framing made from 2x4's. Actually, using 3/4" plywood is an upgrade from what's sold at fish stores for stands. They use a photo finish press board. 3/4" plywood is actually structural.

All you need to do is make a box, cut out a hole in the front then mount a door over it, cut out a hole in the back for service.

I'll be diggin out a stand in a few months that I made for a friends 125 made from only 3/4" plywood. It's very very simple, and held together with 2 1/2" trim nails. 16 gauge

The stand for my 240 is framed like a normal stud wall. One bottom plate and two top plates with studs 16" o.c. It did not matter what it looked like because it's in a wall. That was put together with 3" spikes.

My multiple tank stands are made with 2x4's. The verticle 2x4's (styles) are notched to recieve the horizontal 2x4's (rails) then screwed into place with two 3" drywall screws.

I can take pictures if you'd really like to see them. Point is, most peoples stands are way over engineered and unecessary time and money is spent.

We won't get started on engineers though! LOL


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

TheFishGuy said:


> If you use 3/4" Finish grade plywood you will not need and framing made from 2x4's. Actually, using 3/4" plywood is an upgrade from what's sold at fish stores for stands. They use a photo finish press board. 3/4" plywood is actually structural.
> 
> All you need to do is make a box, cut out a hole in the front then mount a door over it, cut out a hole in the back for service.
> 
> ...


Take a peek under the skirts at the next ALA convention's show stand, or next summer's Akron Ohio annual show. Those stands are plywood. Instead of nails or screws, one plywood rectangle fits over an identical one and they slide together to form an X. Plywood is set on top and the legs of the X are spread to match the width of the pywood shelf.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Everybodys show has interesting set ups. At the OCA Extravaganza we have a jigsaw of sorts made from plywood and 2x that all inner lock and such. Our show is set up in a large "H"


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