# Large white things



## StructureGuy (Jul 27, 2002)

I have Haplochromis sp. "Fire" and Labidochromis sp. "Hongi" in a 55 gallon tank. They are all young at 2" to 2 1/2" long. So far I've lost 5 of the 11 Fire and 5 of the 9 Hongi. 








Any ideas?








To my mind this thing is way too big to be ich. I can even see it swaying in the water.

All the fish are infected and are now in 3 different 10 gallon hospital tanks while I try different treatments.

Kevin


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## StructureGuy (Jul 27, 2002)

Another pic:









Not feeding any live foods. Mostly Spirulina pellets and Dainichi pellets. The tank has been running for over a year although the Fire were purchased 6 weeks ago. Water changes about 20% per week using prime. No ldriftwood and no new plants just some java moss that's been in the tank forever. Nothing new just the same old sand substreate and the same old rocks.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Definately not any ich I've seen. Is the white in the first photo what we see on the fish also? It looks like rock salt on a clay pot, maybe. I would dissolve salt before adding it to the tank. Since they are nice fish and you have the QT tanks, I would start with Clout. What have you tried?


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## StructureGuy (Jul 27, 2002)

PfunMo said:


> It looks like rock salt on a clay pot, maybe. I would dissolve salt before adding it to the tank.


Not "rock salt on a clay pot." It is CaribSea Torpedo Beach sand on a piece of red shale.

Tank #1 => Pimafix
Tank #2 => Melafix
Tank #3 => salt plus heat plus RidIck

I don't have any clout.

Kevin


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

We're looking at some type of fungal infection, so the treatments you are trying may work. Because you are losing fish quickly, and the infection is severe, I'd use both Pima and Melafix in your main tank. You will need to treat all your fish, and sooner is better than later.

If you want to test the combo on the 2 treatment tanks, I suggest adding salt and increasing the temperature in the main tank.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

That's where pictures fall short. What my mind saw was not what I really thought you would be doing but then one never knows till he asks. 

I agree with Triscuit that what you are doing may work. For really getting it quick for severe problems the Melafix and Pimafix may not be quite as drastic as I would go. I find them very good for less severe things and like them in many ways. They just seem more herbal and less heavy hitters. There are many times when a light touch is called for but when the fish are dying quickly they don't seem quite strong enough for me. How does the disease progress? Fast with a fungus covering quickly or just more stop eating and eventual death?


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

Looks like an external parasite to me.


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## jeaninel (Nov 1, 2009)

No, not parasites. Columnaris possibly.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Kevin,
don't know where you are with this but could it be: 
Lymphocystis-- Cauliflower Disease?

Might want to google it and see if the pictures match what you're seeing. Lymphocystis is a viral disease. Usually doesn't result in deaths so I'm not sure that's what you're looking at.

What sort of symptoms are you seeing before the fish die? Does the skin appear to be eaten away around the white growths? Columnaris--a bacterial disease--can kill fish in a few hours or a week depending on the strain. Typically the fish will get white, fuzzy growths that quickly spread on the body and from fish to fish and the growths will usually eat into the skin. 
I would do much larger water change, 50%, using a good quality dechlorinator and then add salt, (sodium chloride) at the rate of 1 tablespoon per five gallons and increase water movement. These two actions may help slow the spread if it is in fact Columnaris--if it isn't then it may still help and it definitely won't hinder. (Dissolve the salt first and add it gradually).
Salt baths or antibiotics are useful with treating Columnaris.

Columnaris also slows down in cooler water so if you think it could be Columnaris you might want to keep the heat at 76'.

Robin

Not saying it is Columnars--just trying to throw out as much information as I can since you're losing fish.


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

That is odd. I don't think it is columnaris or Lymphocystis. Nor do I think MelaFix/PimaFix are the "fix". These medications have more success with minor ailments and I would not consider this minor. They also work better when used in combination (dosing with both at the same time).

With the possibility of this being bacterial, I would resist increasing the temp.

Not being sure, I would likely use a very broad spectrum medication such as SeaChem ParaGuard, which can treat parasitic, external bacterial, and fungal infections.

Are the fish eating?


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## StructureGuy (Jul 27, 2002)

Well the fish in the Pimafix and the RidIck tank are all dead. All the fish in the Melafix tank have survived and there is no longer any sign of infection. They actually ate quite aggressively late last night. In 34 years of fishkeeping this is the very first time I've cured any disease other than ich. I'm shocked at how fast the Melafix actually worked.

The local fish club forum indicates that several members claim a local store is having troubles with Columnaris. I haven't bought any fish from that store but the hongi did come from a local fish club auction this past March (but it didn't appear until recently.)

From the point where I see the white stuff to death is around 3 or 4 days. A day or two before they die they are resting upright on the substrate but swim fine when disturbed. They never totally lost their appetite. The white spots were noticed first in one male Victorian. But it spread very quickly to all the Mbuna but the Victorians have been more resistant to he disease than the Mbuna.

This is the third time I've seen what I think is this same disease in the last ten years. That's one reason, live or die, I stuck with my three tank, (one cure in each) experiment. I'm probably wrong (about the same disease guess) since Melafix didn't do any good at all in previous treatments. Previously, I suspected that it started with a water change because it appeared seemingly simultaneously in the only two tanks I had done a water change in that week. (I have city water with chlorine to kill bad critters, I thought.) It spreads extremely fast.

I really hope I never see this thing again!

Kevin


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Glad your fish, in the one tank at least, are okay.

I don't know if I would credit the Melafix--although it may have definitely helped.

Columnaris is caused by a bacteria that is ubiquitous to your tank water but only becomes a problem when the fish is under some kind of stress. Say if the water conditions dipped in quality, the temp fluctuated-aggression issues, etc. So its possible that the fish in the surviving tank didn't have the same stressors or were just for one reason or other more resistant to the stress so that the bacteria didn't become a problem for them. Fish are able to resist just about anything if they are in ideal conditions.

The amount of chlorine in your tap water wouldn't have played a part unless you didn't use a dechlorinator and the fish became stressed from chlorine/chloramines after a water change. Something you might want to check into is whether or not your city increased the amount of chlorine/chloramines its adding to the water--you may need to increase the amount of dechlorinator you're using or perhaps even start using a different dechlorinator. Not all of them work on chloramines.

Anyway, sorry for the loss of your fish and glad things seem to have improved.

Robin


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