# 2 b/n's die within days



## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

hi everyone,

just finished cleaning and water change and found my second b/n dead 3-4 days after the other.

any help would be appriciated, my vitals are :

4ft 65g
0 amonia
0 nitrite
0 nitrate
13kh
12gh
8.2 ph
temp 26c

i was wondering if they were getting enough to eat, i throw in a algae wafer pobably once a week and they get what ever reaches the bottom.
also iv'e been having brown algae problems the last couple of weeks so i'm increasing the time the light is on.

thanks guys

regards chromedome :thumb:


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Were they getting harassed by other fish?

How long have they been in the tank?

Throw in some blanched Zuccinni every week, they would be sure to get some of that.


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

as far as i know they weren't being harassed.

they had been in the tank from the start in january this year.


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## under_control (Jan 9, 2008)

0 nitrate? Do you know magic? Not even my heavily planted tanks have 0 nitrate.


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

:lol: :lol: as far as my test kit goes thats what it reads before 50 per cent weekly water changes.


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

How long has the tank been setup? Your readings dont make sence. Test kit might be bad.


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

tank has been running since jan this year


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## under_control (Jan 9, 2008)

Then my guess is bad test kit. What kind of test kit do you have?


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

my test kits are sera for all readings except ph which i use my swimming pool test kit.

the sera kits are the liquid drops type with colour chart.
the next colour up from 0 is 10 but there appears to be no dicernable difference from the 0 colour when i do my nitrate test.

i did do a test on someone's tank about 3 months ago with this kit and it showed a reading of 50 so i thought the kit was good.

also on the bottom of the box there is stamped 02/2012 so i took it this was the useby.

thanks :?


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Do you shake the bottles, as directions describe?


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

Mitch101 said:


> Do you shake the bottles, as directions describe?


 yes :?


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Chromedome has done nitrate tests for me on my tanks, and they always come up with a reading. Not fualty guys and he isn't stupid either.
I reckon it's got something to do with the algea that is growing. Most fish stay away from that kind of algae but maybe the BN's were exposed to it a little to much.
Thats the only thing i can think of. They shouldn't have starved they eat all types of things. I don't feed mine at all and he is going fine. He will be devo to find out his X-girlfriend dead but


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd be worried about having no nitrate because healthy bacteria generate nitrate. Try not changing your water until you get a reading. It's not planted, right?

Regarding the bristlenose, were their bellies plump when you found the bodies? If yes, then it was not starvation. I've read advice to check their bellies to be sure they are not concave both at purchase and ongoing.

Was there damage to the bodies when you found them? How long were they in the tank with the cichlids? Mbuna are famous for picking on them, especially when they are first added to a mature tank.

I bought 4 and lost 3 initially, but my one remaining BN seems to be OK in a tank of 40 mbuna and 11 catfish for now.


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

no it's not planted, am i overdoing the water changes?

the first B/N i din't take a good look at before disposal, the second was somewhat eaten.

they were in the tank from the start, after cycling, when the first species of mbuna was added, back in jan this year.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Try shaking the reagent for the nitrate a bit longer, sometimes that can be a factor in the readings you get.

Also, if the test kits have been open longer than 6 months, that could be your problem, as well.

I don't think it's your water with those water changes, though, and I wouldn't change anything about them.

Are you using a good dechlorinator with the water changes - one that removes both chlorine and chloramines?

How big were the plecos?

If it were aggression, I would think it would have happened earlier, and you'd definitely be able to tell by the body of the pleco, especially the finnage.

Are you adding anything unusual to buffer the tank?


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

[quote="cichlidaholic"

Are you using a good dechlorinator with the water changes - one that removes both chlorine and chloramines?

my dechlor says : chlorine, chloramine, amonia and heavy metals neutralizer plus slim coat.

How big were the plecos?

one was about 2in the other slightly larger about 2.25-2.5 ins

Are you adding anything unusual to buffer the tank?[/quote]

i'm using non-iodised table salt, epsom salt and baking soda.

regards chromedome


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Sounds like you're using the buffer recipe from the library? If you're following that, I've never had a problem using it in tanks with plecos.

I was afraid you might be using one of those ph enhancers they sell at the LFS, that is why I asked.

It doesn't really make any sense, unless it really is aggression related, but that's just never been a problem for me in my tanks, and I've even accidently transfered 1/2 inch baby BN with my net into full size adult tanks without any problems (other than me almost fainting when I saw the little one swimming around in there  ).

The only other thing I can think of is that something may have happened to them before you got them that shortened their life span. When they are young, they are super sensitive to water changes, I lost alot of them before I realized I couldn't do as many water changes as I normally do on fry grow out tanks. But, should you go to the opposite extreme and raise them in very dirty conditions, you could do damage to their internal organs that would take awhile to manifest.

Did they both come from the same source? Same tank at the LFS at the same time?

Absolutely no sign of torn fins prior to the deaths?


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

hi cichlidaholic,

hey thanks for following up on my post.

yes if the buffer recipe is good enough for you guys, yep i'm on board, and no iv'e never used any other form of buffering.

of course i can't rule out aggression although iv'e not seen any toward the plecos but they were awol a lot of the time.

no they didn't come from the same source. one was from an lfs and another slightly older and bigger was from my future son inlaws tank.
iv'e tried by reading this site to keep my water at optimum, although my nitrate readings have become an issue since this post.
i will borrow another nitrate test kit over the weekend and see what that reads.

is it possible i killed them with kindness? or more likely iv'e got a lot to learn!

as for torn fins, well the truth is i didn't notice any. but i wasn't particularly looking for it either, just the darn what have i done wrong as i sent them to fishy heaven.

as mentioned at the start of this post iv'e been having a brown algae problem the last 2-3 weeks
is there any corolation here, as iv'e heard they don't like it but seen them going at the rocks.

sorry for the long reply

regards chromedome :thumb:


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Usually they just won't eat the brown algae, I've never seen it be a problem that would lead to death with them.

Since they both came from different sources, that kind of blows my theory on earlier damage being done to them.

I'm at a loss. :-?


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

cichlidaholic said:


> Usually they just won't eat the brown algae, I've never seen it be a problem that would lead to death with them.
> 
> Since they both came from different sources, that kind of blows my theory on earlier damage being done to them.
> 
> I'm at a loss. :-?


the rest of my tank inhabitants seem to be doing fine, so perhaps it was down to aggression.
iv'e noticed my maingano male and sometimes a cobalt blue digging under rocks down to the glass and getting stroppy with the rest, perhaps the plecos got in the way, although iv'e not witnessed it.

if that was the case how would i get on re-introducing new b/ns to the tank? :-?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Well, I would try to find larger ones if possible, but I know that certainly isn't easy to do around here. You're lucky to find them an inch long at the LFS.

Normally, I would advise you to introduce them and leave the lights out for awhile, but since this happened over a long period of time, I don't think that would be much help.

Those were decent sized BN, too!

Or, if you've got an extra tank sitting empty (or even a tank without a "pleco hater"  ) you could try growing some out to a larger size and then adding them.

I just find it so strange that some of us never have problems and others are unable to add plecos to their tanks at all. :roll:


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks cichlidaholic and everyone thats helped me on this 

looks like i'm going fish shopping soon, the best shops in town :wink:

best wishes to you all

regards chromedome :thumb:


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Hey chromedome
Both them plecos were bought from that same fish store i always go on about, that hormone their cichlids.
There is a good chance they were actually brother and sister now i think about it. Perhaps the fish store hormoned the tank to make them grow faster.
They actuallty did come from the same source. "Aquotix" right?


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

hey gibbs,

i thought you got yours from a different source.

well i stand corrected,  now that does put a different viewpoint on this doesn't it.!


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

Sorry about your luck chromedome. I have to say though, I have a BN living in my grow out tank that loves the brown algae (apparently). I got him from the guy I got my 140G tank from, and the first night I put him in there he cleaned it all up...it's been pretty much spotless since. I used to have 2 regular plecos in my main tank, but one disappeared and I removed the other one. Never saw any signs of abuse, the one just totally disappeared. Well, any luck on upgrading your tank? Maybe this could be a "reason" *hint hint* to need a bigger tank. lol :thumb:


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## chromedome (Oct 24, 2007)

g-day Super Turtleman,

well my B/Ns before they died didn't seem to like the brown algae much,
yes they would have a bit of a go but hardly scratched the surface so to speak.
they certainly didn't clean up the tank like your good little fellows are doing.

as far as the bigger tank goes iv'e got no hope.
the little lady would just :lol: and say you better learn how to keep them alive first 

regards chromedome :thumb:


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