# New JD won't eat day 10 shuttering at food!



## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Hey guys I'm new to cichlids here I recently decided to adopt a 3.5 4 inch jack dempsey cichlid to live in my 55 gallon aquarium all by himself I am currently running a eheim 2217 classic canister filter and do two water changes a week to keep water as clean as possible I currently do not have a test kit only the strip ones which I hear are useless anyways it has been 10 days since I got this little guy and he still refuses to eat he seems extremely stressed Everytime I go towards the tank even slightly he swims as fast as possible for cover which from what I've heard is normal for some Jacks however anytime I put food in the tank once he sees it he shutters his head left and right quickly which scares me I see absolutely no outward signs indicating illness other then that and I did see him rub his side on the sand a couple times... I talked to his last owner who said he had only had him for about 3 weeks and that he didn't eat much while there but he did feed him one feeder fish he said and I also asked him about his water quality and he had no idea what I was wanting to know and replied he hasn't cleaned his tank for a few months that's all the information I have how should I go about about this? Is it stress from moving? Or should I be medicating him? It's hard I don't want to just guess what he had but being new to cichlids I don't know where to start any advice or help is highly appreciated and thank you


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## benzenering (Oct 4, 2012)

Need those water parameters


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## lucid_eye (Apr 12, 2009)

Have you fed him and walked away? And even the strips will give a decent indication of water parameters.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Well I actually took my water to my LFS today and my Ammonia was 0 nitrite 0 and ph 7.0 they did not test for nitrates because they said it usually wouldn't cause this however using multiple test strips my nitrates seem to be very low lately I have been doing daily water changes I have not tried leaving the room however I'm not sure i guess it's possible maybe he ate while I was gone and I don't know but the shuttering is making me worry and also rubbing his side on the sand like once every 3 days as well I seen his environment he came from and it was terrible luckily he was only there about 2 or 3 weeks the guy said but his water was yellowish brown I'm not sure i was prepared to treat this but i did it as sort of a rescue because he didn't have much of a future there so I want to get him back to health


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Fish can easily go weeks with no food- don't worry about him starving just yet. I suggest keeping up with the water changes (don't forget dechlorinator), and skip feeding for a couple days. What have you been trying to feed him? Often times fish will refuse a new food until they are hungry enough. Next, if your fish is so shy, it's best to provide dim light and plenty of places to hide.

It's hard to say if there's any disease issues, but clean water is the best defense against that anyway. Fish scratch themselves by rubbing on occasion with no disease present. If you want to treat a few things preventatively, Pimafix and Melafix are gentle and not too expensive. If you see signs of an infection post some pictures and we can suggest a more specific treatment.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Okay we'll I talked to the person who originally had him and he said after he bought him all he did was hide in his spot for easily a month or two and only came out at night when the lights were out however I've tried to feed him hikari gold pellets, hikari pellets with garlic, brine shrimp, bloodworms.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Any evidence of bowel movements?


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

I have a large JD. They notoriously hate the Hikari pellets. Others have posted about this. I got my JD from a friend when he was at least 4 years old. It took him a while to feel safe, but once he did, he let me hand feed him. Make sure he has a cave to hide in. I say give it some time - keep the lights off on the tank and let him/her settle in. Good luck.


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

When I purchased my 10" JD about 2 years ago I remember he didn't eat for 2-3 weeks. It takes some time for them to feel comfortable in a new home.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

no evidence of any bowl movements either... I was thinking he just isnt used to his new home yet as well however its the fact that once i throw in some food his first owner said he loved which is brine shrimp and blood worms that once he sees it gets close he shakes and shutters his head left and right and swims away real fast as if it makes him sick I dont know I know the person I got him from not the first owner has a 75 gallon tank with like 1 oscar, 1 jack dempsey, 1 convict, 1 blood parrot, 1 bala shark, 1 pleco, and like 5 other fish I dont know and he has a 70 gallon whisper filter on it he told me he hasnt done a water change in 3 months after I got him I seen his tank and the water was like a greenish yellow it was so bad and also said he fed him one feeder...I didnt know how bad his conditions were when getting this jack however he only had him for about 3 weeks I guess so I just dont know but I already have this jack and if there is something wrong I want to get it treated I have also done some research and found a post where someone else had a problem with gill flukes that sounds alot like what my jack is doing does anyone have any information on this? thank you


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

also one more thing today is the 17th day I have had him and he still refuses to eat I dont know how long they can go without it but he has to be getting hungry by now right?


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

Is he hiding, lying low with his fins clamped to his side? When you say he shutters his head back and forth, does he look like he is trying to shake something off? Does he also rub himself all ofer the gravel and ornaments when he is shaking his head? If the answer is yes to the shaking head and rubbing, with hiding low in the interim, it could be gill flukes. He could have gotten them from the feeder fish or one of the last owner's fish since his tank sounds very nasty. I got a very nasty case of gill flukes - it took me almost 6 months to get rid of it. I got it from an unquarantined new fish. My JD layed low with clamped fins and wouldn't come out. The best medication for flukes is PraziPro. After a day, he started to get better. I wouldn't waste money on General Cure or Pariguard. PraziPro is the only med that works. There is a schedule on dosing that worked for me. Flukes drop off the fish and lay eggs. The meds only kill hatched flukes, not the eggs. Nothing kills the eggs - not even hi temps and salt. You have to keep dosing PraziPro on the schedule. I will find the post with instructions and send it to you. In my case, the flukes kept coming back - it is a pernicious parasite that is extremely hard to get rid of because it stays on the fish (which you can't clean) - so I had to take the entire tank down, get new gravel and thoroughly clean the filter and start over - dozing PraziPro until the pinchers were finally gone.


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

Here is the dosing schedule for PraziPro

Praziquantel
Diseases: flukes, tapeworms, intestinal flagellates
Contraindications:
It is not effective against camallanus worms however it has been used numerous times successfully for fluke infestations and flagellates.

Available as Droncit (veterinary clinics as anthelmintic for cats and dogs), Prazipro (nearby USA petstores and online sites), Medi-Worm (Goldfish Connection; US location), Goldfish Utopia, PondRx, and Pet Mountain.

Dosage courtesy of Thegab.org:
Day 1 -- remove carbon, perform water change with vacuuming, and add Prazi to tank 
Day 2 -- add Prazi 
Day 3 -- do nothing 
Day 4 -- do nothing 
Day 5 -- do nothing 
Day 6 -- add Prazi 
Day 7 -- add Prazi 
Day 8 -- normal partial water change with vacuuming 
Day 14 - normal partial water change, then add prazi 
Day 21 - normal partial water change, then add prazi 
Day 28 - normal partial water change, then add prazi 
Day 35 - normal partial water change, add carbon, treatment is complete

Recommended dosage: 2.5mg per liter. Considering this is a rather mild treatment, it is not very difficult to overdose.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Yeah that does sound alot like him I havnt noticed him scratching on ornaments but he quickly scratches his side on the sand like 5 times a day he swims around sometimes but for the most part stays in the same place 90% of the day which is behind a ornament hiding his fins do seem to be clamped as well and when he shutters he does seem to be trying to shake something off however it is only when food becomes in his site... Lately he has been darting around alot what do you think should I start treating for gill flukes? Unfortunately I live in a small town and might have to order it off the Internet who knows how much longer my jack has not eating I'm worried now


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

First - JDs can go a very long time without food - several weeks at least. I would get a vitamin pyramid. It will help him get nutrients until he starts to eat. I would order PraziPro from Drs. Foster & Smith - get the large size cause you may need it. It's a good anti-parasitic to have on hand anyway. It smells like cough syprup and will stain wood, so be careful. In the meantime, do partial water changes as often as you can until the meds arrive. Don't disturb the gravel too much - just lightly vacuum and focus on the water. You want to avoid sturring up eggs until you get meds. Each time you change the water, it will eliminate some of the live flukes and give him relief. My fish would respond positively after a change. Flukes are microscopic, but they hook into the fish's gills and pinch. When the fish gives up trying to fling them off, they hid and clamp up. Gill flukes won't kill the fish quickly - a fish is usually more suscepible to secondary infection from the fluke damage. The fact that he is hiding means you will want to take action as soon as possible - he is miserable.

Anyway, feel free to message with any other questions or comments. I'm rooting for your guy! Please let me know how it goes.

Flukes are extremely hard to eradicate, but I was able to do it and I know you can too. You have to keep on it and not give up. I was going to pull my hair out, but I eventually got rid of them. You should also order filter media which you will want to replace at some point during the medication process to get rid of any eggs in the filter.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Okay we'll what size medication would you recommend if I am on a budget? I want to get him everything he needs but money is kinda short right now for a little bit so what size do you think I will need to get through treatment?


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

okay I ordered it earlier today and hopefully it will be here in 5 days, however I just wanted to say thank you for the help at first I wasnt sure if this was what was wrong with him however when you told me about water changes giving him some relief I think that makes me about 99% sure this is the problem because he just mopes around the tank but when I do a good waterchange he will swim around as if he gets a little energy out of the relief once I get the medicine I will be starting the treatment I will do everything I can to help him and I hope I can get him back to healthy thank you again


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## lucid_eye (Apr 12, 2009)

You are doing everything you can. Keep up with the water changes and give it time. Have you tried not feeding him at all for a couple days as suggested. Is there a way we can see pictures?


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

Keep in mind this is a rescue job, do what you can, and if he doesn't make it, at least you tried. That guy that had him needs to forget about keeping fish. It's disgusting to see a fish in a nasty tank. I don't know why anyone would want to keep fish in water like that, there is nothing to enjoy about that unless you're just sadistic.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Yes I can post a picture and I will ASAP but yeah it really upsets me people like that I have hope for this jack that ill treat him and he will be a healthy adult jack in a couple years so I'm just trying to think about that I feel terrible for the fish living with him I wish I had a big enough aquarium to take all his fish get them healthy and stuff him in his nasty aquarium for life... But I'm waiting for the medication to get here still should be in a couple days however my jack has been struggling to eat but he's been trying so that's good along with daily waterchanges.


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

I'm glad to hear that the water changes seem to be helping and he is eating! That is a good sign. Your meds should be here soon.

Is the gravel in the tank new? Is the tank cycled? The reason I ask is, if the gravel is new and it wouldn't be a big deal to remove it, I would do that while treating for flukes. This will allow you to clean the gravel well while eliminating a place for the fluke eggs to hide and continue to hatch. If you've had the gravel a while and the tank is cycled, you should leave it as the bacteria is in the gravel and you don't need to add ammonia build up to your problem.

Once you start the treatments, you are going to want to really rake up the gravel to clean it so you can try and suck up eggs. Eventually, you will have fewer and fewer flukes laying eggs, until you get ahead of the problem and eradicate them once and for all. Also, during the treatment, the fish will get better and start swimming around like all is well. You may do water changes and feel like everything is going so well, you don't want to medicate because it looks like the flukes are gone and you want to give the fish a break. Don't be lulled into this trap. That period is when flukes are low in numbers, but they slowly multiply until the fish starts to flash and scratch again, at which point the flukes have reached a peak again and you will have to start over to beat them back. So, don't let up on the treatment process. It's around 40 days or so. Take it from me, you've got to stay on top of it.

Please keep the updates coming. We are all rooting for him.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

yeah I wasnt expecting to see him eat but everyday after a waterchange he gets a little more active I havnt seen him actually eat an entire pellet but I have seen him take pellets in his mouth and spit it out like 8 times in a row like he is trying to eat it then he just dropped it and starting shuttering and flashing in the sand but there have been a couple cases where there was a little piece of pellet and he ate it... also my tank is cycled its kinda new its my 55 gallon and i've had it running since last September and the sand in it is new its been there for about 3 months I would say and i planned that before I start treatment to do a big waterchange and in the middle of that take all the sand out and replace it at the end of treatment does this sound good? I was just gonna go barebottom during treatment and at the end replace my filter media...and yes I will keep you updated about everyday I plan to go through this entire treatment until the flukes are completely gone... no half measures on this im going all the way also here is a picture of the little guy I took the other day after putting a little food in trying to get him to eat.


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

He is awesome!! He looks great! My guy had trouble eating too - my fish actually acted like he was choking when he first started eating again - he went belly-up a couple of times. The flukes make it hard for them to move their jaws. That will pass. Also, I think I mentioned that JDs don't really like the Hikari pellets. My guy spits them right out - not sure why. If you check the library, lots of other JD folks report the same problem.

With respect to your gravel - Since you've got sand, I would leave it alone. I would also leave the filter media alone for now. Any chance you have a hospital tank? If you treat the fish in a bare tank (except for a cave to hide in), and leave the 55 running for 2-3 weeks without the fish at a higher temperature to speed up the life cycle of the flukes - it helps kill off flukes faster because they have no host to chew on and die, hence fewer flukes lay eggs. It's also cheaper to treat a fish in a 20 gallon tank as opposed to dosing for 55, and without gravel, the flukes have fewer places to hide - though they will go anywhere - corners of the tank below the frame, on heaters, plants, etc. But, that is up to you.

Also, you should add more aeration to the tank when you start medicating as it reduces the oxygen in the water. When you start medicating, the fish will seem unhappy and may hide again after you dose the tank. Don't let this hinder you. Once the fluke population is reduced sufficiently, he will stop hiding. I didn't want to do anything that would make him "unhappy," but it only hurt him in the long run if I didn't dose. Don't make the same mistakes I did.

Anyway, keep up the good work! He looks great.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Yeah I was actually really suprised when I went to pick him up he was extremely pale... He was also the little jack out of the two the guy had once I put him in my tank he just morphed into blackish grey and awesome blue and gold... But yeah I have a feeling he's gonna be an awesome looking jack when he gets older and if he stayed in the other guys tank he wouldn't have a future however anyways I actually have a 29 gallon tank that I can use for a hospital tank is that what you would recommend?


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

If it were me, I would treat him in a smaller tank to save you money on meds and to help speed up the treatment of the fish and of your display tank. However, this will mean frequent water changes of the hospital tank because ammonia will build up. He may also get pale again, briefly, when you transfer him, but will color back up. Your guy has great color - he looks just like mine, except mine is about 9." I'm assuming you have another filter, tank heater and air pump for the 29 gallon. If not, don't move him. You would need to keep the 55 running even though it's empty so you can raise the temp, medicate, and kill the remaining flukes. If putting him in the QT tank would be too big a pain, leave him in the 55. You will just need to use double the medication over the 40 days. If you got the large size of PraziPro, it should be okay.

I have my guy in a 65 gallon along with a feather fin catfish. Medicating the whole tank can break the bank. I have a 20 gallon QT.

Anyway, sounds like you are on track.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

I do have an extra filter and heater for the 29 gallon I only have one air pump though but I can transfer that if I need too I am just gonna use the 29 gallon it will make it easier on me I can't believe he's been eating a little bit lately though makes me feel better


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Hey guys just a quick update I have received Prazipro in the mail today and am preparing to treat my tank I was gonna use my 29 gallon however I have decided to just treat my 55 gallon as while I was gone apparently my dad had hired somebody to spray the house for fleas he covered the 29 gallon up with a blanket but I'm unsure if it will be safe to use anyways I bought a 4oz bottle of Prazipro this should be enough to treat a 55 gallon tank right? If not i can only fill it up half way perhaps anyways I will keep you updated as i go thank you


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks for the update Trevor! I would do a good water change - and vacuum the gravel good - and medicate using the schedule that I sent you. The 4oz may not be enough for the full course of 35 days, but it will get you started. You can order more later. Please tell us how he does after you start dosing - and if he starts eating normally.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Update: I am now on my 3rd day of treatment the day I started I did a big waterchanges and removed the sand since then jack has been extremely pale I've never seen him so pale lol anyways He has continued eating some or atleast trying to alot I will keep you posted as I continue treatment also when I complete the treatment would it be okay to put my old sand in or should I get new substrate completely?


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks Trevor! Replacing the sand is prob not a bad idea. Did you take the JD out when you removed the sand? That may be why he is pale. Also, he may be pale because a large water change may have been an upbrupt change in the PH, GH, etc., or the black sand makes colors very bright, and fish get stressed if their is no tank bottom - they can see "fish" in the glass and think they are surrounded by predators. I have a huge slab of rock that I put in the bottom of my QT tank so my JD doesn't freak. I would just get new sand in a couple of weeks to be safe. Obviously, the JD can't be in the tank when you put in the new sand.

Is he moving around more? Have you noticed bowl movements? Is he still shaking his head and scratching on the ornaments? Hopefully he is not hiding and feels a bit freerer to move around.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Actually I did leave him in while I took the sand out I didn't realize that was a bad thing or I wouldn't have done it and I do think its the glass that's bugging him he seems to be alot more active lately and he tries to attack his reflection every once in a while he darts across the tank the first day I started treatment I seen him flash but havnt seen it since and he also has been eating pellets Everytime I put them in which is good however I havnt seen any bowl movements so not sure whats going on... I've been waiting to try brine shrimp or blood worms and see if he will eat that anyways thank you for the help I will keep you posted I really appreciate it I have tried alot of forums and stuff and your one of the few people that tried to help me so I'm just happy it's getting better dont think I could have fixed this alone


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

Sounds like he's doing much better - you're a good dad. When you put the sand back in, don't leave the fish in the tank. Also, I would hold off on the blood worms or brine shrimp if your filter is not fully cycled. The fish will LOVE it, but fresh fish food increases the ammonia build-up exponentially. When my fish came down with flukes, I found lots of info on the forums. My LFSs were not much help. I think that's because it is a really hard parasite to treat. I'm glad your guy sounds like he's on the road back.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Thanks I'm new to cichlids and fish in general so Im not the most knowledgable but I am an animal lover who works at an SPCA so I am determined to get him healthy when I seem him in that tank it kinda broke my heart for all those fish anyways I havnt tried brine shrimp yet however my tank is cycled since I'm doing the treatment in my 55 gallon lately I have been trying to spend alot of time in front of the aquarium and get jack used to me since I've had him he seems to dart back to his cave whenever I get close I think he has been moved from aquarium to aquarium alot which is suprising cause he's such a pretty jack


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

The issue with JDs is, if they aren't raised with other fish, they are extremely aggresive and end up having to be kept alone, otherwise they will kill anything else in the tank. Some people don't want to handle that. I got an adult size feather fin catfish living with my JD because they have very tough skin and spikes to ward off attacks. My JD chases it around sometimes, but he can't kill it, and it gives him something to do. The cat fish has figured out how to co-exist. JDs are resilient and beautiful - and they get very large. Your guy is fairly young - they can live up to 8 years (or a little more). So, you will have lots of time to enjoy him. Also, JDs bond with their owners, but they are skittish in the beginning, especially if they are ill. Your guy will begin to associate you with feeling better. The main thing is food - he will associate your approaching the tank with food. My guy eats right out of my fingers. Once, he bit me and drew blood. Give it time.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

Yeah I'm probably just gonna have him alone however I have thought about when I get a 75 gallon about getting a female jack for him to pair up with but not sure, do you think a 75 gallon would be big enough for a pair of jacks? Also I was wondering I'm on day 5 of treatment that schedule you gave me for treatment should I only do waterchanges when it says to?


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## bluenapG (Mar 30, 2011)

I would test the water to make sure it's as good as it can be - 0 ammo; 0 nitrites; nitrates below 20 ppm, pH around 7.5. If the tests are good, I would follow the schedule and not change the water. The PraziPro is building up and taking care of the flukes.

Is he happier? About a female addition - Jacks do best if they are paired early and get used to co-habitating with another fish. They can be aggressive with females if they have not been raised together. If your Jack is young, you have some time. About tank size, some people will say that 75g is not big enough for two adult JDs - mainly because when they are both 9' long, that is a lot of fish and too much bioload for a 75g. I have the two fish in a 65g, and I will admit that it is too small. I think you can get away with a 75g for a while.


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## TrevorB22 (Aug 23, 2012)

There is no doubt about him being happier he is way more active now then he had ever been he still gets scared sometimes and darts to his cave but it is alot more rare 90% of the day he is out and about Everytime I put pellets in he eats them all he will come up to the top now an before I had to make the pellets sink for him and also he is starting to allow me to get close and open the lid and put food in and not dart away quickly so yeah I would definetely say he is feeling better or just getting used to me but from his attitude he has slowly adapted lately and I would say compared to when I started treatment he is feeling great he has been out lately and eating and I've gotten to feed him and spend more time seeing him then before cause he was just hiding so I am definetely happy about it and would say its working


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