# Need Help Please



## CrazyTaz (Jun 3, 2012)

Hi im new to this site but it looks like I could get the help I need from people here, I have always had fish and really like tropicals mainly cichlids, I got a 90 gallon tank about two years ago I dont have many fish in it now but I was wanting some advice on what other fish I could put in the tank.
right now in the tank there are-
1 parrot cichlid
1 convict cichlid
1 firemouth cichlid
2 jack dempsys
2 anglefish
1 jewel cichlid
1 Phenochilus Tanzania cichlid
2 convict firemouth hybrid cichlids
they all get along very well I have done some reserch on other breeds but im still not sure I would like to keep the tak mildly aggressive and if I could I would like to add other fish besides cichlids like I thought maybe a small school of tiger barbs? if anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

I think you'll get more responses on what fish to remove. How long has this mix been together?


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## samaki (Oct 25, 2002)

Hi I think you have enough fishes in that tank and no needs to add more.
xris


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

My bet is if the jd pairs they'll be the only in the tank after they kill everyone. If not the convict will pair and kill everyone. If no one pairs the biggest jd will kill half the stock


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## CrazyTaz (Jun 3, 2012)

the tank has been set up this way for two years now, no one fights or harrasses anyone I know the jacks and the convict are aggressive species but the ones I have are very calm and mind there own buisness, they have plenty of hidding spaces, most are full grown to almost full grown and the tank is just so empty looking, I use to have a green terror, a bumblebee and another parrot in that same tank but the filter system died on me and I was unable to get the new filter quick enough before the tank got very dirty and I lost those three fish, other then that I have never had to deal with them fighting or harrassing each other and the firemouth and convict are constantly spawning.


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

your tank do as you wish.

but that tank is no where big enough for those guys in terms of territories and bioload.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

jd lover said:


> My bet is if the jd pairs they'll be the only in the tank after they kill everyone. If not the convict will pair and kill everyone. If no one pairs the biggest jd will kill half the stock


Yep.....if they pair up it will not be good in only a 4' tank.

How big are each of these fish?


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> jd lover said:
> 
> 
> > My bet is if the jd pairs they'll be the only in the tank after they kill everyone. If not the convict will pair and kill everyone. If no one pairs the biggest jd will kill half the stock
> ...


if its a stander 90g it could be a custom 3ft tank or a customed 6ft either way i see death fishy lol


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

jd lover said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > jd lover said:
> ...


Yeah...I could see major problems if they pair up but if they have been together for 2yrs then the convicts should have already spawned at least a couple times.


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

thats the thing. i doubt any angel fish can survive in a tank like that for 2 years


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## CrazyTaz (Jun 3, 2012)

My convict has spawned 6 times now with my firemouth that is how I got the two hybrids, the largest fish in there is about 6 or 7 inches, as for the angles they have been in there for the whole 2 years, I got them when they were no bigger then a dime and now they are full grown and have spawned 4 times as well, none of the cichlids even go near the angles, every one does there own thing *** never lost a fish to a fight or anything like that, i have made sure they have plenty of area for territorys and I have done my research on them as well has talked to experts a fish freaks about there aggression and all that also the parrot is not a true parrot it only gets 4- 5 inches if that helps any


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

CrazyTaz said:


> the tank is just so empty looking


Is there any chance you could post some pictures of the setup? Instructions how to post images are here. I just have a hard time imagining how a 55G with all those fish could possibly look empty. If we could have a look at your setup, it might help people make some suggestions.


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

Its a 90g not much a difference but just thought I'd correct ya before he uses it as an excuse lol


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## CrazyTaz (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes I will try and post a picture, and yes its a 90 gallon but its only got 11 fish in it, and to jdlover I'm a she not a he and I wouldn't not have used it as an excuse


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## countryboy814 (Feb 19, 2012)

You have a potential for a very violent tank. It is really remarkable that these fish are not eating each other. I think adding more fish could upset your cosmic balance.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

CrazyTaz said:


> Yes I will try and post a picture, and yes its a 90 gallon but its only got 11 fish in it, and to jdlover I'm a she not a he and I wouldn't not have used it as an excuse


I apologize for the mistake, and continue to look forward to any images of the 90G you can come up with. He or she makes no difference for the purpose of this discussion, but is not discernible from your user name.


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## CrazyTaz (Jun 3, 2012)

I dont get why everyone is saying that this tank is going to be violent, all my research on the species say there mostly only very aggressive to there own species or in the case of the convict with there spawning which even then mine has never got that aggressive during any spawn, I can honestly say I didnt think i would get so many negetive responses im not looking to add a bunch of fish I just really want some blues and yellows in the tank but I do appreciate everyones advice dont get me wrong and I was not meaning to be rude I was just stateing them im a she lol.


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

im sorry if youre a she (lol not the way it sounds lol) we say its going to be violent because we have kept these guys. trust me with jd you wont know when they will snap and decide to kill everyone. if you want yellow and blues look into so guppies or swordtails. either way some will die. im surprise none has died yet. once again its not only the territory issues but also with the bioload.


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## CrazyTaz (Jun 3, 2012)

thats of my two angles one is male one is female, they have spawned several times









and this is of the entire tank, hard to see everything with the shape but there are several caves and logs for hidding and im planning on getting cichlid rocks from foster and smith.

also when I said blues and yellows im meaning cichlids, I already have a 37 gallon tank with guppys, gouramis, tetras, mollys, swordtails, sailfins, and platys in it, and as for the bioload, my tank has two filter systems in it if that once again helps any lol


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

im sorry but you dont have any where near enough room. like i said if it was a stander 90g that would be different but this look to be a hexagon tank. tht fact your fish survived is anything short of a miricle. i notice you said you had this tank for 2 years correct? your jd looks a bit on the smaller size for a 2 year old.

on to the subject of filtration. filtration only helps so much and can only go so far. water change is still the best form of filtration. after a certain amount of filtration any more is useless. filtration is an area where the bacteria is. the bacteria turns ammonia into nirites then nitrates. when i mention bioload earlier its because even though nitrates arent as deadly as the others it can still do harm. once the ammonia is turned into nitrates its dispersed in the tank. the tank allows for x amount of nitrates to be present but still safe. in a smaller tank the amount is a lot less.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Didn't know it was a hex. You are eventually, hard to say when, going to have issues with your stock especially in this particular tank.

On a positive note....it is a very nice looking tank. The decor is nice. Looks very natural.


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

i told you it could have been a 3 ft tank razor lol


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

jd lover said:


> i told you it could have been a 3 ft tank razor lol


Yep....I am trying to figure out what the floorspace would be the equivalent of on a standard rectangle/square tank....maybe a 36 long....

I can't tell by the pics so I am not sure if the convicts are male/male or female/female. I was just assuming if they were 1 of each they would have for sure spawned, or likely would have, and that would not be a good situation in a tank of this size. I think the jack has yet to gain the size or maturity to do any real damage as of yet. I think as they continue to mature there is going to be real problems.

The convicts when they pair are merciless in a smaller tank as they will pair up and attack anything within their territory and they are usually pretty relentless.


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

well i would assumes its the same as my 60g hex but taller so around 30-35 inch maybe? as thats what has me concern the jack is atleast 2 years and its really small. and i believe its a convict/firemouth pair not a con/con pair


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

jd lover said:


> well i would assumes its the same as my 60g hex but taller so around 30-35 inch maybe? as thats what has me concern the jack is atleast 2 years and its really small. and i believe its a convict/firemouth pair not a con/con pair


There looks to be 2 convicts in the tank from what I can see but the pic is not that close up. Regardless....I am not sure why the JD and other fish are growing. I could guess but I don't know the specifics.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

CrazyTaz said:


> I dont get why everyone is saying that this tank is going to be violent, all my research on the species say there mostly only very aggressive to there own species or in the case of the convict with there spawning which even then mine has never got that aggressive during any spawn, I can honestly say I didnt think i would get so many negetive responses im not looking to add a bunch of fish I just really want some blues and yellows in the tank but I do appreciate everyones advice dont get me wrong and I was not meaning to be rude I was just stateing them im a she lol.


Thanks for this honest statement and also for the photos. To be entirely honest with you also, when I read your initial posting I thought you might be trolling, because the mix of fish you have in the tank seemed impossible to me to keep alive for two years. Obviously you were not trolling and you have managed to keep the fish alive!

What matters to cichlids most when establishing tank space is length of the tank, followed by depth of the tank. The area length x depth is called the footprint of a tank. The height almost doesn't matter at all, because cichlids will not establish territories one above the other. One of the few cichlids that do make use of high tanks up to a point are angelfish. That was a smart stocking choice!

A standard 90G has a footprint of 48"x18". I am guessing your tank is not more than 30" or 36" long, so for stocking purposes it's more like a standard 29G (30"x12") or 30 breeder (36"x18"). That makes your feat even more astounding!

Typical behavior for convicts is to pair up quickly. The breeding pair will then proceed to kill everything else in the tank to protect their fry - never mind if you keep them in a 20G or a 120G. A male JD can behave very much the same when reaching maturity. The reason for this aggression is that in nature the fish will defend a territory much larger than any regular fish tank. In a tank, they will claim all the space that is available, and try to drive out intruders. In nature other fish will simply avoid that area, but in a tank they can't get away. Often it is not necessary for the territory defending fish to physically hurt the others. The mere stress of not being able to get away from the territory owner will confine the others to a corner until they die.

I can only speculate why this didn't happen in your case, but I have a theory. I am guessing that the available footprint in your tank is so small that territorial behavior of the fish was almost entirely suppressed, meaning there is so little space that nobody seriously bothered to set up a territory. In addition, stressed fish that are pushed up in the tank had plenty of space to escape, since the tank was so high! Several other factors might have come to your help:

- mostly hardy fish that can cope with above average stress levels; 
- water quality kept up to scratch by providing good filtration;
- angelfish can use hight of tank;
- JDs might be females.

So they are alive, but I think you have some seriously unhappy fish. Like others have pointed out, the JD in the photos looks very small for it's age. It might be stunted, meaning it stopped growing as a result of stress. That isn't normal, and contrary to common belief, fish usually keep growing, and don't grow to the size of the tank. The condition the other fish are in is hard to judge from the photos, but most cichlids like to stay close to the ground. If anybody except the angels is regularly around the top part of the tank it's a sign of stress. There is no way in your tank everybody could have a hiding place at the bottom. There just isn't the space. Last but not least, some of your fish are cross breeding. They would not do that if they had mates from the same species to choose from.

In summary, adding more fish to this precarious mix would seem like a recipe for disaster. If you want a more active and more colorful tank, I hope you don't mind me suggesting a radical solution - find new homes for all of your current fish, and stock the tank with one or two species of mbuna. For example _P. saulosi_ (blue males, yellow females) or a mix of _L. caeruleus_ (yellow) and _P. demasoni_ (blue). Mbuna do well in larger groups of 1-2 males and the more females the better. They are extremely colorful and active, and will use the entire hight of a tank, assuming that some part of the decoration (like a piece of wood, a rock, or a plant), reaches all the way up near the surface.

Best of luck!


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## CrazyTaz (Jun 3, 2012)

No I was not trolling lol this really is my tank and id be more then happy to get you more pictures if youd like, I really have had this tank set up for 2 years, when I got most the fish they were small fry, the older of the jds is about 6 inches long maybe a bit bigger, they were towards the top becuase they have been trained to come up and eat from my hand (no joke) so they assume I was going to feed them, as for the convict he is a male and has breed with my firemouth a lot, he does get a bit pushy but every one just stays away from the back of the tank, they two hybrids *** been trying to sell lol there not my favorite, as for why I only have one convict is I wanted variety so I was doing one of several species, but the two jds are very different and im about 99% sure all but 2 cichlids are females *** only noticed egg spots on 2 of them and since my angles have spawned I know I have a male and female there, most the fish in the tank are between 4 and 6 inches, the jewel is about 3-4 inches the younger jd is about 2inches and the small stripped fish in the one pictures is my phenochilus tanzania which is about 2 inches as well.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think you have been lucky as previous posters have stated and I would not change a thing for fear World War III would break out. Or, since the angels work well in your tank shape, I'd get rid of everything else and keep them.


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

To be honest your tank only looks empty because all your fish are scare and hiding.


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## countryboy814 (Feb 19, 2012)

From your photos the tank looks great. I don't think it looks empty at all. Maybe start another tank with other species if you need more of a variety.


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## CrazyTaz (Jun 3, 2012)

thank you all for your advice, I think im going to split up my cichlids into different tanks and use the 90g for something else, I really like peacock cichlids so I might go with that but do you guys know if other peaceful tropicals such as mollies guppies, gouramis and that will they do ok with peacocks?


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## AulonoKarl (Mar 9, 2012)

CrazyTaz said:


> thank you all for your advice, I think im going to split up my cichlids into different tanks and use the 90g for something else, I really like peacock cichlids so I might go with that but do you guys know if other peaceful tropicals such as mollies guppies, gouramis and that will they do ok with peacocks?


Peacocks also need about 48" in length and would not work well with those tropical fish.
You might be able to do a couple of smaller species of mbuna in there. It's not my area of experience, but I think it would work fine. Something like labs and rusties. 
If it were me I'd do rainbowfish with some other tropicals. It would look really nice with your decor. Maybe four different types of tropicals and some bristlenose plecos.


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