# Will a Livingstonii still play dead while hunting in a tank?



## timdo72 (Oct 1, 2007)

Need your info:

Just last night I saw a video thru a link provided by a member in this forum of a livingstonii playing dead laying sideway on the sand while it was hunting for food in the wild. I have never seen a fish playing dead like this one before and it was just so so cool to watch the behavior. So I have decided that I am going today to my LFS to purchase one just because of this "playing dead" behavior.

My question is: since my 90 gal. tank is an all male peacock/hap with no fry or small cichlid in it, will the livingstonii still behave playing dead hunting for food or it only behave that way in an environment where there are fry or small cichlid for it to hunt?

Anyone owes one before and if so, what are their behavior like?

Thank you in advance.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

I've got a livingstoni and a venustus, neither of them have shown this behavior yet, I've tried feeder comets once but the mbuna beat them to the feeders. Haven't tried guppies or anything since then.
Have heard they will do it in a tank if there are fry around. Haven't seen it yet, but seems it would be much easier for them to eat the pellets and shrimp you toss in. But eventually instinct may kick in. Wild caughts probably would do so before any tank bred/raised fish would.
Maybe someone here has a video of this happening in their tank, I would like to see it.


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## laserblue16 (Sep 5, 2006)

Yes even tank bred do this, it is natural instinct, but only if there are small enough fish to fit in the mouth.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I have two of them in my 150 gal tank and haven't witnessed the behavior yet


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## timdo72 (Oct 1, 2007)

laserblue16 said:


> Yes even tank bred do this, it is natural instinct, but only if there are small enough fish to fit in the mouth.


Cool thanks. How about the size of the tank? How long should it be since it lays on its side and needs room to launch at small prey when they come nearby? Mine tank's footprint is 60x18x20, will that work?

Also, at what size will it start to behave this way do you know? Or it doesn't really matter since you mention it is natural instinct only if the environment is right? And what if I feed NLS pellets to the rest of the other fish and the livingstonii then rely on that for food and maybe not hunt, do you see that is a possibility?


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## timdo72 (Oct 1, 2007)

tannable75 said:


> I have two of them in my 150 gal tank and haven't witnessed the behavior yet


Like Laserblue16 said, do you have any small enough fish for they to hunt? maybe try some guppies or something to see if they behavior that way only if you want to witness it yourself. If you ever decided to try, record and post back with video if possible. Have fun!


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## Joea (May 25, 2004)

I've never seen _N. livingstoni_ do this in a tank and I've never heard anyone say they've seen it happen in their tanks. I have witnessed _N. venustus_ stay motionless on the bottom when smaller fish are around, but have never witnessed one make the quick move to actually eat one.

The _N. livingstoni_ would likely need a lot of space to do this, so even a 125 or 180 probably wouldn't cut it.


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## SUPERBEE (Jan 23, 2005)

Here is a video of the act .

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v712/ ... stoni1.flv


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## herny (Nov 30, 2007)

thats in your tank weird


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## Joea (May 25, 2004)

herny said:


> thats in your tank weird


That's in the wild.


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## SUPERBEE (Jan 23, 2005)

> thats in your tank weird
> 
> I wish that was my tank, how cool would that be !!!


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## herny (Nov 30, 2007)

oh its in the wield that makes sense


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I just caught mine doing it! I tried to make a video, but when she sees me she comes to the glass and begs. I had recently put a couple dozen feeders in (3 days ago) and some have formed a colony. The livingstoni lays down under where they usually hang out and waits. I haven't seen her actually catch one that way, but she's tryin!


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## LikeAChampion3 (Mar 27, 2006)

Post a vid when you can!

Does anyone know what kind of plants are in the sand in the wild video?


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## the_evil_dickfeldi (Feb 17, 2006)

I've seen Dimidochromis compresseps hunt in an aquarium as if they were in the wild. Cool!


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

SHe doesn't catch one while on camera. I don't know if she would. There are too many other fish in the tank and when they scare the school of goldfish away, she gives up. I have seen her with goldfish hanging out her mouth, but haven't seen her actually catch one playing possum.

Anyways, here is the video of her trying.


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## SUPERBEE (Jan 23, 2005)

Looks like she has the "lay down and act dead " part right, its the "actually get off your a.. and actually try to catch a fish " part that she doesn`t seem to be catching on too just yet !! :lol:


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

Yeah, I think she needs some practice! She is spending about half her time doing this now. She does get some when she hides in a cave then jets out and grabs one.


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## herny (Nov 30, 2007)

very cool  she will get one soon


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd84/bulldogg77/?action=view&current=deadfish.flv








put some fry in the tank, this is as close as my livingstoni came to playing dead. He lie still for a bit outside the fry' caves but no longer that a minute at a time. He's since given up on the fry, don't think he ever got on.


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## Fish_Dude (Aug 13, 2006)

All I can say is that I'm missing about 4 petricola from my tank.....
Could be any one of the preditors in my tank though.


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## cichlids _killer (Apr 13, 2008)

that video is cool .....


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## Andrius (Feb 18, 2008)

what would be the smallest tank to keep livingstoni in? Just today i saw one at my lfs and after watching all these videos i really want one..sadly my biggest tank is 65g.. would that be enough? Thanks


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## Joea (May 25, 2004)

A six foot tank is best for _N. livingstonii_. A large 4 foot like a 90 or 120 gallon would be fine for a lone specimen; a 65 gallon is simply too small.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

On a side note, has anyone here witnessed their Dimidiochromis compressiceps eating the eyes of other fish?


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## Joea (May 25, 2004)

Darkside said:


> On a side note, has anyone here witnessed their Dimidiochromis compressiceps eating the eyes of other fish?


Although they have the nick name "Malawi Eye Biter", the idea of them biting eyes out of other fish is a myth.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Joea said:


> Darkside said:
> 
> 
> > On a side note, has anyone here witnessed their Dimidiochromis compressiceps eating the eyes of other fish?
> ...


I've witnessed this happen on one occasion, it was a sub dominant male who sucked the eyes out of a gold fish that was only slightly smaller than itself. I only saw it happen that one time over the 5 years I kept the fish and I never saw any other evidence that this occurred again. I never saw any of my comps approach the eyes of other fish and I never saw any gold fish missing their eyes. The goldfish was a treat destined for a knife fish that was growing out, and was too large for any of my compressiceps to take. I've read that in the wild some of these fish are caught and have some eyes in their stomach so I wondered if anyone else had ever seen this in their home aquarium.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

I've seen many Malawi cichlids target the eyes of some fish they didn't like... pleco, gold fish, etc. 
My guess is that the folks who first kept the eye biter saw this once or twice and the name stuck to this particular fish.

I wonder who first applied the common name? or even in print?


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

I can't find any peer reviewed reference to the stomach contents of these fish but there are a string of articles dealing with the bio-mechanics of this fish's mouth and its ability to create suction.


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## Joea (May 25, 2004)

Darkside said:


> I've witnessed this happen on one occasion, it was a sub dominant male who sucked the eyes out of a gold fish that was only slightly smaller than itself.......
> 
> ......I've read that in the wild some of these fish are caught and have some eyes in their stomach so I wondered if anyone else had ever seen this in their home aquarium.


Fish eating eyes out of other fish is nothing exclusive to any one species, I've seen and heard of various species who have done this. You're likely to hear many accounts of someones fish eating the eyes of another and it's not likely to be a D. comp majority. It's not a specialty, just the result of an opportunistic fish that has discovered it can get a quick snack from a fish that would otherwise be too large to eat whole.

I've never read any documentation stating that _D. compressiceps_ stomach contents contained anything more than their standard diet of Copadichromis juvies. Their mouths will suck in prey when they attack and their laterally compressed frames help them stay stealthy. A more accurate trade name might be "Malawi Fish Sucker-inner", if that sticks, I'm taking credit for it! :wink:

If you can find the document you're referring to, I'd like to see it.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

Dimidiochromis sp. Piscis piscis Combibo JoeA

you may have a chance


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Joea said:


> Darkside said:
> 
> 
> > I've witnessed this happen on one occasion, it was a sub dominant male who sucked the eyes out of a gold fish that was only slightly smaller than itself.......
> ...


There seems to be some documentation regarding the D. compressiceps eating eyes. I'll take a look for the book I have at home where it is referenced in, but I could find some things online. One question first, how is your German? Here's the web address for a pdf,

http://kritische-naturgeschichte.de/Med ... arsche.pdf

Proceed to page (Seite) 4 first paragraph (continued from page 3) starting at Vertreter einer besonders.... Dimidiochromis compressiceps.... to the end of the paragraph, you'll find reference and apparent confirmation of this behavior. Here is the listed reference for this behavior, STAECK, W. (1975): Cichliden â€" Verbreitung, Verhalten, Arten. â€" Wuppertal
I'm sure if you can get a hold of this book, you can trace the eye biting behavior back to its original reference. Given what I've read about the the bio-mechanics of this fish's mouth I believe that "sucking" the eyes out from other fish is well within its power. Behaviorally I'm not sure, but then again there are many environmental traits we don't witness in out captive fish. I don't think the "biting" action of the fish is what is so interesting, but the possibility that it may be able to "suck" out the eye of another fish is something else.

You can probably get the gist of it in Englisch if you throw it into a translator. A search for D. compressiceps in German turns up all sorts of results relating to the eye eating behavior of this species, be it true or not. I'll see if I can find evidence that AugenbeiÃŸer predates Eye-biter and see if there is a more official reference to this behavior. Here are some more German links dealing with the subject if anyone is interested.

http://www.aqua4you.de/fischart516.html

http://www.zierfischverzeichnis.de/klas ... siceps.htm


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

I'd say you've found the origin of the name for certain Darkside... good find. 
This website is amazing...


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## Joea (May 25, 2004)

Thanks Darkside!!

Although the translation is not very good, it's interesting to read broken English segments on how the name may have come about. I've honestly never read anything about this behaviour ever being witnessed in the wild or in captivity. Because I believed it to be a myth, I've never asked any experts about it either; I'll be sure to bring it up next time.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

If you'd like I can translate that section for you guys, give me a couple minutes to do it!

edit: Here's the translation

Representatives of a particularly terrible art [nature] (Dimidiochromis compressiceps, formerly Haplochromis), dart at bigger fish, grab a hold, disappear and leave their victims with an empty eye socket. This amazing behaviour of Dimidiochromis compressiceps was initially controversial because it only occurred in reports from local fishermen. Through the observations of aquarium specimens, however, it was confirmed that such a bizarre eye-biter actually exists [14]. According to WOLFGANG STAECK [11], the eye robbing is only part of its food acquisition.

Apparently this behaviour was first reported by Fryer, in 1972, here's the reference for that book, which you can still purchase through some outlets.

FRYER, G.&. ILES, T.D (1972): The Cichlid Fishes of the great lakes of Africa â€"Their biology and evolution. â€" Edinburgh


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