# Bolivian help please



## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

If keeping more than 2 of these fish, what are the proper ratios? I think i may have 2 males, but i wanted a M/F?

















second fish









What should i do? Buy more or take the second one back?


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## LJ (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't know the answer, but I know that the people who answer this question will want to know your tank size.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

LJ is right...What size tank is this?

Kim


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## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

Sorry, i didn't think that was overly relevant at first, but they're in a 36X12X18ish now, and if only a few of them, they'll be moved to a similar planted tank that's 36X12X15 when it's finished cycling. I was hoping for another species in the second tank eventually, and that's why i wanted just the M/F to start with. Just trying to figure out what to do...take the second one back and get a "supposed" female or get more or what? They're hard to sex. I thought it was M/F in the community tank right now but they fight whenever near each other, so i am guessing that they're both boys.

Would a male and female still fight like this, or would they be generally accepting of each others company? Thanks again.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

36x12x18, that's 30 gallons right!

So you have a couple of nice looking males there, I'd personally keep the first fish pictured and return the second male, for three females. Have you seen my sexing guide? It might help you with this.

I would not really advise that you keep a single pair of these fish together, it can and will work for a very long time, but can quickly turn sour. Several females for each male is a good way to dissipate the inevitable spouts of aggression that occur during the courting, breeding and rearing process, not to mention the simple establishment of hierarchy and shifts in the group dynamics that this entails, all very entertaining and much less stressful on a larger group of fish.

In your tank I would keep 1 male and 3-4 females, this will make life much easier and the male will benefit from a selection of genetics etc.

The tank you plan on moving them to, will it have a sand substrate? These fish are very much sand sifters - their name, _Mikrogeophagus_ literally means, small earth eater..... A sand substrate will bring about fascinating behaviour :thumb:.

Blair.
Click link in my sig to see their detailed profile page if you think it might help:


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## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

The tank was sold as 38 gal(maybe U.S. specs are larger gallons than UK?). I very much appreciate the advice. I think i'll go back and get a few other females. 
Yes the new tank is sand based, and live plants.

Can they be put in with something else in the new 27g-long, like a few Cacatuoides?


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

> 36x12x18, that's 30 gallons right!


That's a 38 gallon tank you've got there. I know because I have Mbuna in mine (first tank) and I spend much time plotting ways to sneak a 75 gallon into my house.


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## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

I actually just measured the height just to be sure and depending on wether it's black bottom to black top, or glass to glass height i'm not sure.....but the entire height is like 19.5-20 up to the upper rim, so i think it's like a 38 too. I dunno?


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Round down and call it 35 - do you have the water brimming at the top :lol:, didn't think so......

I've kept my Bolivians in the same sized tank with a breeding pair of Pelvicachromis Taeniatus, I doubt that any Apisto has the sort of attitude to match these guys and although they were clearly dominant of the Bolivians, little conflict would arise unless they strayed to their half of the tank. I wouldn't do it long term as they are particularly defensive fish (the Pelvicachromis) that actively seek out others to ensure the message stays firmly put. So with a m/2f harem of nice apisto you should have a relatively peaceful tank.

I'm sure Kim started off with Apisto's and Bolivians mixed, she'll be able to give you her direct experience....


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

It didn't work... 

I also had angelfish in the set up, but the rams spawned and pushed everyone else to one side of the tank, cramping them up somewhat. I wound up with a dead male Apisto out of the deal.

This was in a 40G breeder, and the angels were still small.

Honestly, if I knew then what I know now about how entertaining the rams can be in a tank of their own (with dither fish and no other cichlids), I would have never tried it. :thumb:

I now have a large group of various sizes of Bolivians in a 55G tank, and plan to ultimately keep 2 males and 3-4 females in the tank long term. I have various tetras and barbs in with them, and I have to remove freeswimming fry if I want to keep them, but the dynamics of this tank are just amazing, and it's my favourite tank to sit in front of every evening.

These little cichlids really deserve a tank of their own, IMO.

It's not that you can't house them with other fish, it's just that there's no need! :thumb:

Kim


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

You can keep Bolivians in pairs but this can give some troubles like Blair already mentioned. I keep Bolivians always in small groups. Whether the tank is 30 gallon or 38 isn't to important. More important is the aqua scape. If it is densely planted with lots of wood and territorial markers you could keep 5 of them in there. I would keep the 2 "males" and add 3 more females. Bolivians aren't harem builders but they do live in small groups just like their big relatives Geophagus. If one male would be a bit more territorial the second male will keep him in line. So one male and multiple female isn't necessary. I have kept 5 Bolivians in a densely planted 30 gallon and eventually most of them became 7+ years of age.


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