# Suggestions for a new mbuna species for my tank



## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

Hello everyone,

After christmas, I'm thinking of replacing the albino zebras in my tank with something different. Reason is that they're kind of boring. The white is a nice contrast, but they really aren't as active and interesting as the others in the tank. I'm looking for some recommendations for what you would swap them for.

The tank is a 6' 125g and I've currently got a 55g sump for filtration and extra water volume. Also, there are 2 AQ110's filtering the tank as well.

Current stock list is:

5 yellow labs (2m:3f I think)
6 acei (2m:4f I think)
5 Giant Demasoni (2m:3f I think)
5 rusties (1m:4f proven)
4+1 Albino Zebra (sex completely unknown, maybe all males)
2 Synodontis Lucipinnis
6 Synodontis Multipunctatus

The +1 albino zebra is segragated from the main tank because he/she was being stressed to nearly death. He/she is fully recovered now, but I'm afraid to put it back in the main tank.

The sexes were checked via venting but I'm inexperienced at it so I'm not completely sure of all but the rusties. The rusties are a proven colony (all 4 females have held and developed fry were recovered.) I hope to grow out some rusties and add a couple mor females to the tank, because the male sure keeps his 4 girls busy.

Anyways, so yeah, what do you guys recommend to replace in for the Albinos? I know I want to avoid any other metriaclimas because I want to give the giant dems a good chance at feeling comfortable enough to do some spawning. Which means I also want to avoid anything else barred, or anything so aggressive or similar to the GD's that they won't feel comfortable enough to spawn. So now you know another of my motivations for the swap - trying to get my GD's to spawn. Here's a list of species I was thinking about as a first pass:

-A Labeo. trewavase variant
-A Labeo. fuelliborni variant
-Labido. textilis/Exasperatus - anyone know if these would be ok with the yellow labs? - same genus
-Any other Labidochromis if no crossing/aggression with the yellows
-M. cyaneorhabdos - had some of these once before when I had a 55g might be interested in giving them another try in the 125
-M. Exasperatus/textilus - same or different from L. textilis? LFD lists them separately, L. Exasperatus 'Red Exasperatus' look like the profile here for L. Textilis, and M. Exasperatus 'Textilus' look blue/green with the orange spots/stripes.
-Maybe some other Melanochromis if not too aggressive.
-Ps. "Perspicax Orange Cap" - anyone know what the females look like?
-Ps. Polit - Love the males but will the females cause any aggression/hybridization risk with the rusties? They seem kinda brown just like the rusty females.
-Ps. Socolofi blue or albino - not likely to go with the albino and I don't think I want another pale blue fish but they're an option.
-Ps. "Williamsi North" maybe, but they do seem kind of rusty-like.

So yeah, thats my list, but I'm really not in love with any of the options over any of the others. I think a Labeo species is my top choice currently but I can't settle on a variant I like the most. I'd appreciate any comments on the options, or any suggestions for some species I might have overlooked.


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

Alright so maybe my first post wasn't quite concise enough.

What do you think of Labeo. Trewavase "marmalade" as a choice?









The fish I had in mind initially was Labeo. Treavase "mpanga red" as seen from the profiles here:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2295

but I've seen them look differently such as








and









I think the 2nd pic above is what the mostly look like on average right?

Other questions still:

are Labidochromis textilis and Melanochromis exasperatus the same species? I've seen the both listed for sale separately and they look different:

L. textilis sold as exasperatus but labidochromis









M. exasperatus sold as textilis looks different than above

















Both the above sold from the same vendor.

So my list narrowed down from above I think will be:

1) a tewavase or fuelaborni variant
2) textilis/exasperatus depending on what I hear about them.
3) "Williamsi North" as a 3rd choice - you guys don't think they're too similar to rusties do you?


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Most of the fish that you are looking at are too hyper for the Giant Dems. I had mine spawn in a 120 with Cyno Hara, Yellow Labs, Saulosi, Red Zebra, and Maingano, and Red Fin Borleyi, and Rusties. I had too many species for a 120, but I didn't save fry ( had Multies also).

What about a robust Peacock species, such as Lwanda, Jacobfreibergi, or Ob Peacock.

Or Copad Borleyi Kandango?

Or up your numbers of the other 4 species!


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

Floridagirl said:


> Most of the fish that you are looking at are too hyper for the Giant Dems. I had mine spawn in a 120 with Cyno Hara, Yellow Labs, Saulosi, Red Zebra, and Maingano, and Red Fin Borleyi, and Rusties. I had too many species for a 120, but I didn't save fry ( had Multies also).
> 
> What about a robust Peacock species, such as Lwanda, Jacobfreibergi, or Ob Peacock.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comments! How old/big were your giant dems when they started spawning?

Right now, the only species spawning in my tank are the rusties. 

Did you have any aggression problems between the 3 blue barred species?

Which of the species do you think are too hyper and which do you think could work? I think maingano are pretty hyper...

I'll look into the peacock/haps you recommended. I hadn't really thought about adding any of them until you mentioned it.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

My Giant Dems were 18-24 months and then they spawned like clockwork.

Rusties are almost considered a dwarf mbuna, so they spawn more quickly. The others will catch up!

The 3 species got along great, although they Cyno Hara and Giant Dem females often looked very similar. I suspect there was some crossbreeding, but I didn't keep fry, as my Syno Multies took care of it!

I thought the Maingano were ok as far as aggression. Perspicax, Socolofi, Polit, Exasperatus, 
other Melanochromis...to aggressive. I think the Labeos would be okay, but not add a lot of color, and large fish/bioload. The Giant Dems are only slightly more aggresive than Labs, IMO.

I know it's tempting to cram as many species as possible in the tank..but I really think 4-5 species in a 125 is plenty! Especially since I was a former crammer...lol



Rhinox said:


> Floridagirl said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the fish that you are looking at are too hyper for the Giant Dems. I had mine spawn in a 120 with Cyno Hara, Yellow Labs, Saulosi, Red Zebra, and Maingano, and Red Fin Borleyi, and Rusties. I had too many species for a 120, but I didn't save fry ( had Multies also).
> ...


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

Thanks for the thoughts.

I haven't had my giant dems for quite a year yet and I bought them really small, so I guess I still need to wait a while more. Makes sense about the rusties, all 4 of my females have held twice within the last 4 months or so.

My labs had already been spawning and in fact I saved some fry from a spawn but since I put all my stock in the 125 they haven't spawned since. I've had my labs and aceis for just over a year. The aceis have never spawned yet, and they're the biggest.

I really don't want to cram a lot of fish in I just want to find 1 new species to replace the albinos. I don't think 5 breeding groups is cramming in a 6' tank, but I've also certainly considered just removing the albinos and upping the numbers of the 4 remaining species females as an option. I appreciate your experiences they're really helping me out. I do like hara and saulosi, but my goal is to be able to save fry from the giant dems and I think the saulosi females clash with the yellow labs, so they're both out. I'm glad you think the labeos would be ok. I think the fuelliborni marmalades are very attractive both males and females but I guess individual opinions will vary. I don't think they get too big for a 6' 125g and with the 55g sump I'm not too worried about bioload, plus I already do big weekly water changes anyways, but it is something I'll consider.

"Perspicax, Socolofi, Polit, Exasperatus, other Melanochromis...to aggressive." - I figured as much for all but the Socolofi. I figured the socolofi would be ok but they weren't my preference anyways so I'll leave them out.

Mainganos - didn't work out too well for me when I started out with a 55g. They were in with the labs and aceis, which were fine, but the mainganos were very feisty with each other. I had 6 juvies, and I suspect my problem was 4 males and 2 females. I saw 2 females hold, the first dominant male showed up dead one day (didn't see any stress signs in advance), and one of my poor females was exiled to the top corner of the tank - not just chased by the dominant maingano, but ALL the others. And this was all before they reached 2"! I do find them attractive and interesting though, and with a bigger tank and better luck with a ratio (and more of them in general), I've been thinking of giving them a try again.

So that leaves the "williamsi north" as my only other option I haven't got an opinion on yet. They are interesting looking, but I haven't seen a lot about them. The pic I posted earlier shows the male as a sort of olive color, but in the profiles here they are said to be more orange, and lists them as only mildly aggresive with a maximum size of 4.5". The females look kind of hap-like with the black spots. Anyone know anything more about them?

Oh, and Metriaclima Msobo are another fish I like but I ruled them out due to being the same genus as the giant dems, probably too aggressive, and may hybridize with the labs due to similar colored females. Am I right?

Current list of prospects, in order by preference:

1)fuelliborni marmalade
2)other fuelliborni or trewavase
3)maingano
4)"williamsi north"


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## jmartyg (May 3, 2007)

polits are vicious little things. They're really pretty, but death machines, especially for their size.

Have you considered Flavus? They're borderline 'dwarf' but once the males, and some females, get a few years old, their colours constantly pop. They're up there on the aggression scale, but from my experiences, they don't bother with labs at all.

They're also a distinct torpedo shape, which I like.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Another thought. Not mbuna..but I kept Zebra Obliquedens with mine at one time. The Giant Dems still spawned. Once they get large enough...they really won't be too particular of tanksmates when they are in the mood... :wink:


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## caseyof99 (Aug 5, 2009)

i have red top trewavasae and i love em. i love how they look different from other mbuna witg their little mushroom noses. i am very glad i chose these when i started. the females are a bland flesh tone but my males more than make up for it. flavus would be another good choice. all the flavus i have had experience with are more conspecific aggression. they dont mess with anyone else. the cyno haras would look good in there but not sure about how they will behave. good luck with what you choose tho.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

I have a 125 with 5 species and synos, so I think you'd be OK stocking wise. One of them is Labeo Fuelleborni, West Thumbi Island. I got them all as 1" juvies about 16 months ago and now they are 3+. Being that they weren't sexed, it looks like I wound up with 5 males and 2 females, and of those I have three with the normal blue coloration, 2 OB males(Marmalade Cats) and 2 OB females. So far, other than some chasing, there has been no serious aggression. I think they're very interesting to watch also, constantly grazing the rocks and glass. I've even had them swim INTO the return from my FX5 to graze, and anyone who knows how much water that thing moves can imagine that sight, hilarious  ! I've got a bunch of fry I'm raising up now to see if I can get some OB's and some extra females if needed. Here are a few pics of the Fuelleborni, not the best but you can get the idea of what they look like. They are from not too long after I got them, so they're larger and more colorful now. I need to update my pics of them  ! Just my 2 cents on them, good luck with watever you decide. :thumb:


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

I think a group of Labeotropheus would be a great addition. I've had both Trewavasae and Fuelleborni - for both their aggression has been 95% conspecific in my experience. I doubt that they'd bother the Met. sp. Dolphins so long as your ratios were appropriate. Four females per male and they'll be fine. Regarding the (Mpanga Rocks) collection point, my male looks like the second picture. My understanding is that males as red as the first picture are rare and they only attain that color when spawning. Also, the young males start out blue and gradually the orange-red hues come in. Even the young males can be stunners though.

I also have a young group of Ps. Williamsi (Makonde North). The guy that I purchased my group from said they are pretty mild-mannered for mbuna, but they do get larger than 4.5 inches. I think the 4.5 inches must be their size in the wild. In the aquarium, I think 6 inches fully mature is more accurate (at least the males). I doubt that you'd have problems between them and rusties, but it's possible.

Good luck!


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## caseyof99 (Aug 5, 2009)

i agree on the labeos, they are always active grazing or cruising around. my male has a rock archway that he claims but only defends it when breeding. very mild mannered except to his females and a smaller malw i kept.


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