# 2100 Gallons - mainly shelldwellers



## Ardeus

It doesn't have glasses yet, but here it is:


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## ahud

:drooling: :drooling: :drooling:

Wow, how did you get these huge rocks in?
I guess you are leaving it outside?


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## Darkside

How will you prevent birds from snacking on your fish?


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## Ardeus

Today I nearly got a leg crushed while trying to move them around. But this is how they got in:


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## Ardeus

Darkside: I hope they don't have the guts to come down


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## ahud

Ardeus must be rolling in the muh lah 8)


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## ahud

Oh, and I hope you boiled them rocks! :lol:


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## drungil14

What shelldwellers and types of shells are you going to put in there? Please keep the pictures comin.


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## clgkag

going to be a sweet setup. Looking forward to futher pics.


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## cholile

my jealousy knows no bounds. i bet you could put a pair of the emperors in there with shell dwellers and have plenty of breeding to make up for lost fish as long as you feed your emperors. that'd be so cool!


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## Ardeus

Thanks guys!

I have two restrictions in choosing species:

- Only small fish;
- Only fish that stay very closely to their territories.

This tank is my atempt at having a tank that's not a cage, and that's the purpose of those two rules. A big fish will make any tank look small and the same goes for a fish that swims from one side of the tank to the other in a few seconds.

So, it will probably come down to:

- Multies (right);
- Ocellatus (left);
- Brevis (left);
- Alto's "Sumbu" (left);
- Buescheri (left);
- Eretmodus (left);
- Gracillis (left);
- Cyprichromis (middle-right);
- Callochromis (middle).

That's it, I think, but I'm still open to suggestions. I don't want to put any particularly frail species in, at least in the first months. In the future, it would be nice to have just a few Benthochromis. A large peacefull fish would help to keep everyone else close to their homes and maybe the cyprichromis would school more.

I have to have in mind that I probably will not be able to remove any species after I put it in.

Another thing is the breeding of certain species. Multies will probably breed like a biblical plague but they stay very close to their territories, so I have no problem with that. This tank was built mainly for them.

Buescheri fry also have a very high survival rate but they are completely bound to the rocks and they have small batches of fry.

The one that worries me is the gracillis. I never had them, I know that they also breed a lot but are less aggressive and smaller than the other species of the brichardi complex, so I am willing to take the risk although I hate hate hate overstocked tanks (I have one).

All other species will have a much lower survival rate, I guess, because their fry leave their parents too early.

The rocks ended up occupying much more space than I expected, but there's a lot of sand going in and it will hide completly some of them, mainly in the left, where I will try to build a dam to contain the sand. The idea is to have the sand at the level of the glasse all around the tank.

In the back, in the middle of the tank, I plan to have vallisnerias. This will be the place to go for the evicted fish.

I hope I can get the glasses in place this weekend. Let's see.


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## BRANT13

sounds and looks to be an amazing tank in the making....keep the pics comin opcorn: =D>


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## Longstocking

Very cool....

Please keep us updated.

Callochromis will wonder the whole area for the most part....


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## Ardeus

Thanks.

Sarah: I'm planning to have a huge shellbed on the right and scattered shells on the left. I was expecting the Callochromis to just wander in the middle of the tank, in an open sand area. I'm pretty sure the multies will not allow them in their area and I think that the ocellatus will also do the same.


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## drungil14

I would leave the gracilis out. Also just curious to know the number of cyprichromis you were planning on getting because I always wanted to see a large school of cyps and you have the perfect tank for it.


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## Ardeus

I'm thinking about taking your advise and not include the gracilis by now.

I'm not sure about the initial number of cyprichromis, because although I have a dozen of them on mainland at my parents house, they're a species that looks so frail that I don't want to risk to ship them. A friend of mine that lives nearby has them too, and I'm going to ask him to save all the fry and give them to me. I'm planning on having something between 100-200.

Although the tank has a good area, I don't think many fish will succeed in achieving large numbers. I'm counting on the Multies to reach something between 1000 and 2000 and the Buescheri to reach around 100. I don't see any of the other species manage to breed a lot, because all their fry wander away from their parents protection too early.

The gracilis would be one of those species that would succeed in achieving large numbers, and that's a problem, if they're "all over the place" fish. Are they? One thing I don't want at all, is to have a ton of fish swimming right in front of the glass. A ton of fish swimming very close to the rocks, it's sort of fine by me, but not all over the place.


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## drungil14

I agree that the Cyprichromis arent as hardy as some of the other fish you have. Got any new pictures?


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## ahud

just out of curiosity how many shells did you put in?


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## Ardeus

I don't have any new pictures, just old ones:

























Multies seem to bennefit from a few layers of heavy shells. I think shark eyes are great for them. Because the shells are heavy, they create a stable set of tunnels and caves and even if a larger fish has a hard time moving them. I'm trying to get around 2000 or 3000 of them.

My idea is to sort them in sizes: small, medium, large and layer them in that order on top of each other.

But depending on the batch of shells, it may happen that there isn't any shell large enough for the males. So, just to be safe I'll be getting around 200 Ferdinanzi shells.

The other fish will be getting Ferdinanzi shells too, around 200, scattered on the left part of the tank.


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## reflexhunter

so how many hob filter are you going to use? :lol:

can't wait untill you are finished!! gl


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## Ardeus

:lol:

I'm using just 1 filter, a filter for Koi ponds


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## Ardeus

An update:


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## ahud

What program did you use to design your blueprint?


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## Ardeus

I use 3ds max.


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## Ardeus

And here's an update:







I will try to grow a large Multie colony in this area. They will dig dig and dig, and at least they will get the shells down to a rock layer instead of the floor.


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## StingrayKurt

This tank is truly amazing! This is every hobbyists dream to have what you have there! I cant wait to see the finished product!


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## cholile

I agree with StingrayKurt. This just looks stunning.

But, and maybe this should come with a Debbie Downer alert?, I'm confused about one thing. I have 2"-3" fish and love them. However, if they aren't right near the front of the glass I can't really appreciate them because they're just so small. You seem to have thought of everything, so what am I missing here? How will you be able to appreciate 99% of what's going on in the tank with fish so small? Unless of course you plan on swimming with them, which you can definitely do in that monster


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## alexrex20

you can view them from above


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## Ardeus

This tank a great deal of thought into it... from a phylosophical point of vue  On technical level, I'm just doing one thing after another, as needed.

This tank is my ode to freedom (one definition of freedom may be not wanting to go anywhere). And that's the kind of fish I want to have living there: fish that don't want to go anywhere. The last thing I want is a fish swimming in front of the glass, like it was in a cage.

cholile: you're right in what you are saying: it makes no sense to build something this size for shelldwellers and other small fish, since you just can't take it all, you can't follow all the stories that are going on there. But it's right for the fish. They'll enjoy living there, I hope.

Here's an update:





I looks like too much rock, but loads of sand will get in.



I decided to leave the open sandy areas without any rock below, there will be just between 6" to 15" of sand. I guess that if there's rock below sand, someone is going to find out about it, dig and live there. In time, sand dwellers would have no place to be.


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## alexrex20

is it going to purely be shell/rock dweller Tangs? no Paracyps or any mid- and top-water Tanganyikan species?


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## Ardeus

I'm going to go easy with this, because when I put a fish in, there's no chance I'll get it out.

So to begin with I'll start with:

- Multies (right)
- Ocellatus (left)
- Brevis (left)
- Sumbus (left)

- Buescheri (rocks)
- Eretmodus (rocks)

- Cyprichromis (open water)

Some species are a bit too fragile at least for this initial state. Paracyps are one of them. But I would like to have them later.

Sanddwellers line Xenos and Enantiopus are an open option, but for later too.


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## daci

if you can catch the fries and sell them in the future then i guess you can call them as Wild Caught!


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## Ardeus

That's a problem here... I only know a couple of other guys that have Tangs and they can't receive more than 1 or 2 fish. Take them to stores means sure death. I think the only way is to fly them out, somehow labelled as "pond raised".


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## Ardeus

I'm looking at the importer's list and they have the following fish:

Tank raised:

Eretmodus cyanosticus Mpimbwe Orange (Tank raised)
Tanganicodus irsacae Mabilibili (Tank raised)

Wild caught:

Eretmodus cyanosticus Ikola
Eretmodus cyanosticus Makombe
Eretmodus cyanosticus orange Kigoma

Spathodus Erythrodon Kabezi

Tanganicodus irsacae blue spot Kigoma
Tanganicodus irsacae Ikola
Tanganicodus irsacae Makobola
Tanganicodus irsacae Mpimbwe
Tanganicodus irsacae Nyanza Lac

I was thinking of replacing the Eretmodus with the Tanganicodus irsacae Mabilibili (Tank raised).

For one, they're smaller and I prefer smaller fish and that also has the advantage of making them less willing to leave the rocks safety, I guess?


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## HiImSean

that's a sick tank, keep us updated with the progress.


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## Tiberian

Looks great. How did you attach the 2 vertical glass supports on the front side of the aquarium? Were they done as a single concrete pour with the base or did you pour them after the base had settled?


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## Ardeus

They should have been done as a single concrete pour...

In the beginning I wanted to have no vertical supports, just the glasses glued to each other. But I had to give up the idea for safety reasons.

So, the corners were broken so that the irons of the supports could be fixed a few inches below ground.


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## ahud

Its going to be really nice. I think you will enjoy it more with the type of fish you are putting in. The stay in one spot fish like you said will make the tank seem massive.

I am going to mimic your setup. Mine will only be 300gallons though.


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## fishkeeper93

This is gonna be sick keep us posted with updates.


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## Ardeus

Things are taking their time... most equipments haven't arrived yet, so I have to wait and wash and wash and wash and wash sand.

I already washed 25 bags (88 pounds each) and it takes about an hour to wash 1 bag...


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## fishkeeper93

Its looking better and better then before good luck.


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## Cole1309

good lord......thata baby. good luck to you. you know what your doing. this will be a gorgeous tank in a year. wow.


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## noddy

Any pics of that mastiff?


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## Tiberian

How are you going to light it up?


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## Ardeus

Thanks guys!

The dog is a shar pei , lives here, but it's not mine.

The lighting will be done by Sky and Sun. But maybe later I'll think about something to use at night every now and then.

I think that tank will look great in the first months, if the fish do well.

I would be happy if the tank looked empty if seen from a 15 feet distance, but unfortunatly it's not just my opinion that counts here.

It's not a tank designed for fry. Fry that leave their parents early have a low chance of survival I guess.

As you can see, the rocks above ground are too big to be adequate for hiding. If they dig around those big rocks, they will find smaller rocks that are good for breeding, but once again, not small enough to be safe for fry that left their parents.

Maybe I'm being a bit cruel setting up things like this, but I live in a place where it's hard to get rid of fish. Stores don't like taking them, even for free, because they don't sell them easily. I only know a couple of other guys around that have Tangs.

And, I never tire of repeting it, I don't want an overstocked tank. I would be happy if the tank had around 60 fish, aside from the Multie colony.

I guess a few fry from all species will manage to survive in the first months. But after that, there will be hunters in the rocks, in the sand, everywhere, and no place to hide.

Multies and Buescheri won't have that problem. They will continue breeding without control, although Buescheri will go slower.

But Multies have a challenge in this tank. The area I have prepared for them is composed by 3 layers of shells on top of a layer of sand on top of a layer of rock. If anyone beside the Multies discovers that there is great rock for breeding there, the Multies will have really hard time.

So, in the beginning, the Multies area, which represents around 1/3 of the tank, will look like a big sandy desert, with a small shell bed (a size that the Multies can defend). The shell bed will grow as the number of Multies rise.










White: Scattered shells (for Brevis, Ocellatus and Altolamprologus "Sumbus")
Red: Large Multie city
Orange: Viillages
Yellow: Families

I really don't understand why so many people prefer big fish. These guys are waaaaay more interesting and fun.


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## BioG

:drooling: need I say more.


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## SonsOfLeda

Subscribed.

You're living my dream!

:thumb:


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## herny

so how many of each fish are you going to buy?


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## Ardeus

Thanks guys!

I'm getting the fish from different places: my parents tank, a friend and a store.

I plan to start with 60 fish:

- Multies (I haven't decided how many yet, it will be either 6 or 30)
- 8 Brevis Sunspot (4 + 4)
- 9 Ocellatus gold (3 + 6)
- 2 Altolamprologus compressisseps "Sumbu" (1 + 1 - I'll see if I can get 2 extra couples)

- 10 Cyprichromis leptosoma Mpulungu (3 + 7)
- 9 Paracyprichromis nigripinnis (3 + 6)

- 6 Tanganicodus irsacae Mabilibili (3 + 3)
- 10 Neolamprologus buescheri Tembwe II

I'm not getting any sand dwellers yet for 2 reasons: the species I want (Enantiopus and Xenotylapias) are a bit fragile and I want to give fry of all the other species a better chance of survival in the first months.

After these first months, I guess only Multies and Buescheri fry will have a good survival rate. All others will have a hard time, simply because there's no place to hide.

To end things, if I can get the tank very very very stable, especially in what concerns temperature, I will give the Benthochromis a try with a group of 7 or 8 fish. And that would close the tank.


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## Maddog

this is [email protected] very jealous!


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## Darkside

Ardeus said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> The dog is a shar pei , lives here, but it's not mine.
> 
> The lighting will be done by Sky and Sun. But maybe later I'll think about something to use at night every now and then.
> 
> I think that tank will look great in the first months, if the fish do well.
> 
> I would be happy if the tank looked empty if seen from a 15 feet distance, but unfortunatly it's not just my opinion that counts here.
> 
> It's not a tank designed for fry. Fry that leave their parents early have a low chance of survival I guess.
> 
> As you can see, the rocks above ground are too big to be adequate for hiding. If they dig around those big rocks, they will find smaller rocks that are good for breeding, but once again, not small enough to be safe for fry that left their parents.
> 
> Maybe I'm being a bit cruel setting up things like this, but I live in a place where it's hard to get rid of fish. Stores don't like taking them, even for free, because they don't sell them easily. I only know a couple of other guys around that have Tangs.
> 
> And, I never tire of repeting it, I don't want an overstocked tank. I would be happy if the tank had around 60 fish, aside from the Multie colony.
> 
> I guess a few fry from all species will manage to survive in the first months. But after that, there will be hunters in the rocks, in the sand, everywhere, and no place to hide.
> 
> Multies and Buescheri won't have that problem. They will continue breeding without control, although Buescheri will go slower.
> 
> But Multies have a challenge in this tank. The area I have prepared for them is composed by 3 layers of shells on top of a layer of sand on top of a layer of rock. If anyone beside the Multies discovers that there is great rock for breeding there, the Multies will have really hard time.
> 
> So, in the beginning, the Multies area, which represents around 1/3 of the tank, will look like a big sandy desert, with a small shell bed (a size that the Multies can defend). The shell bed will grow as the number of Multies rise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White: Scattered shells (for Brevis, Ocellatus and Altolamprologus "Sumbus")
> Red: Large Multie city
> Orange: Viillages
> Yellow: Families
> 
> I really don't understand why so many people prefer big fish. These guys are waaaaay more interesting and fun.


I love my smaller Tangs, but if I had an aquarium that size it would be filled with rays and arros and probably a rescued pacu or two. Given the space large fish are as just as interesting.


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## Fogelhund

Perhaps you could put the multies in before the other shellies... let them establish their territory and breeding, then add the others... it gives them a better chance of a permanent territory... otherwise they really have very little chance against the others.


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## herny

> Perhaps you could put the multies in before the other shellies... let them establish their territory and breeding, then add the others... it gives them a better chance of a permanent territory... otherwise they really have very little chance against the others.


 he brings a geat point and also why are all the shells so close to each other? if this tank is all for shellies that big open spot will before nothing i know you plan on getting te sand dwellers but hey wouldnt need that big of a space and you might not even do the any way i would spread the shells out allot more and where are you getting all the shells? you will need at first like 100 shells at least


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## Ardeus

The fish won't enter the tank all at once.

The tank is taking more time than I expected to get going and it's complicating things a little. If I manage to keep on track, the plan is the following.

Cypris, Paracypris, Buescheri and Tanganicodus first.

A few days later, I will put a small shell bed (3 layers of shells) on the right side, close to the concrete column and Multies will start to move in.

A few weeks later, I will put lots of scattered shells on the left, so that other shellies can find a place.

Brevis, Ocellatus, Sumbus will enter slowly. I expect this whole process to take around 3 months.

Fogelhund: The Multie colony will take a couple of years to ocupy the area I prepared for them, and the shellbed will keep expanding according to their needs because I'm trying to avoid the situation you warned me about, and it's not going to be easy, no matter how big and strong the colony is.

I'm getting around 3500 shells. The Multies will get 3000 shark eyes. There's a company in the US that sells 100 shells for 6 USD. I think Shark eye are great for them, because the layers of shells are very stable, and they seem to enjoy the spaces between the shells as much as the shells themselves. At my parents house, they have no more shells and they managed to build a large cave system between Vallisnerias roots.

Right now I'm not sure about my decision of placing a rock layer under the sand in the Multies area. And with all their digging, 3 layers of shells won't hide completly the rocks below, I guess. And in time, when exiled Buescheri find that out... only God knows.

And Sumbus have no problems to conquer space at the edge of a Multie colony.

I guess the best thing I can do is to keep removing fish that breed too much.

That big empty area in the middle, is meant for sand dwellers and it also serves to discourage invasion of the Multie colony. A shellie that tries to mess with the Multies will have to cross a desert and arrives there on a weekened position. But has I've read somewhere, cichlid fight for 3 reasons: territory, territory and territory. What will happen in this tank will be something in between what happens in a normal tank and the lake, I guess.

On the positive side, in my parents house the tank has 6 shelldwellers species inside (Multies, Brevis, Stappersi, Sumbus, Caudopunctatus and Boulengeri), Buescheri, Cypris and a few other fish and there wasn't any serious problem.


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## alexrex20

i wonder how quickly a group of 12 unsexed brichardi would take over that entire tank. lol


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## BioG

I'm hoping to see actual film of this tank as I'm curious as to how these fish will behave in such a large setting, I'm sure they'll all be fine, you've put a responsible amount of thought into all of this, I just wanna see it. Hurry up!! :lol:


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## fiupntballr

you know what would be cool.... a web cam to watch that tank!


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## jrh

Ditto for the fish cam


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## Rick_Lindsey

jrh said:


> Ditto for the fish cam


Mount it on one of those little RC submarines, and set up paypal to charge $1 for 5 minutes of steering the sub remotely through the web! I bet there'd be a waiting-list of people waiting to put in their dollar .

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## Ardeus

The webcam is a good idea. At least with some advertising to help pay the heating bills.

But I have a much, much better idea than webcams for this tank


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## Rick_Lindsey

Ardeus said:


> The webcam is a good idea. At least with some advertising to help pay the heating bills.
> 
> But I have a much, much better idea than webcams for this tank


Scuba Diving?

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## Ardeus

No scuba diving or snorkeling 

I really must get things going soon, because the tank is full of mosquitoe larvae.


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## Maddog

that will bea yummy treat for yoru cichlids


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## Ardeus

Meanwhile I'm yummy treat for my mosquitoes :?


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## t0rns0ul

Your tank is amazing. I look forward to updates



> The Multies will get 3000 shark eyes. There's a company in the US that sells 100 shells for 6 USD.


Can you share the company which you are purchsing the shells from in the US?


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## Ardeus

Shell Horizons.


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## Rick_Lindsey

I don't know about ardeus' source, but www.shellhorizons.com offers bulk shells more cheaply than most places I've seen.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who found that a gallon of turbo shells wasn't as many as he had thought, and would probably order a shell that came by the hundred next time)


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## AU Chief

What type of shells are you planning on using/have you used in the past?


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## jrh

Shell Horizons is good. I've ordered multiple times from there and have always gotten good support.

Shellshopping.com might be good if you're ordering over $100 at a time.


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## Ardeus

For Multies, I'm using shark eye. For others, light weight shells, so they can move them around.

But I have some bad news. Yesterday I started filling the tank, and the floor cracked, here:



It's just a 1 mm crack between the back wall and the ground, but it lets out more water into the ground than the amount two hoses can deliver in.

Any ideas about how to fix this without much fuss?


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## alexrex20

what am i looking at? what floor? what crack?

the pic is confusing.


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## clgkag

I think maybe the wrong pic got posted? That looks like a pic before you started the tank at all. I would talk to your contractor. It shouldn't have cracked if he knew what he was building it for.


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## Ardeus

The pic is right. See the orange line on the floor by the wall? That's where it cracked.

The whole ground has at least 10 inches of concrete, but in that area, I suspect it has just a small layer of cement.

There was a flower bed at the left (you can see the vegetation that was ripped off still on the floor), and the contractor filled it and it looks ok.

But imediatly to the right, there was a barbecue. I suspect that the previous owner just covered a piece of the flowerbed with a thin layer of cement, so that he could put the barbecue on top.


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## cmcpart0422

That sucks but better to have it happen now then when it was finished.


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## Rick_Lindsey

Are you going to be able to fix it? Remove the thin layer of concrete, dig it out, fill again with concrete, or however that sort of repair goes?

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, truly bummed for you!)


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## Ardeus

Yes, in fact I felt less discouradged than what I expected.

I covered the crack with silicone and when it dries, I will fill the tank again. I will let it stay for a few days, and wait for the floor sinks all it has to sink.

Then I will take all the water out again and cover the crack with polyurethane foam.

I hope it will solve the problem.


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## katytropheus

Just wanated to congratulate you on an amazing undertaking. I think your direction of small fish and not an overwhelming quantity makes a lot of sense. I have a 375 gallon tank with a ton of fish (based on the species) and there is a lot to be said for the thrill of "finding fish" in a large tank rather than the constant movement that eats up the appearance of the tank.


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## Ardeus

Thank Katytropheus.

Because of these problems that have been causing delays, I'm considering going much slower than I thought in what concerns the fish introduction. I don't know yet what I'm going to do, but I have to sort a different plan. I will keep the fish list, but their introduction in the tank is going to be much slower. I got a bit scared with this crack on the ground.

Right now, I'm taking care of the plumbing and mending the ground... and washing sand. 40 bags of 88 pounds are already in and I'm still washing and washing and washing more sand.

Today I thought about removing the rock layer under the Multies territory. I would save me from washing more sand (to cover the rocks) and it would prevent them from the envy of rockdwellers. But the rocks are also the to prevent them from digging down to the blue ground.


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## katytropheus

I feel your concern on the mechanical stuff. That has always worried me much more than the livelihood of the fish (hate to admit it). A significant leak is a disaster. A case of bloat and you move on. Your tricoti thoughts are intriguing in a mega tank. With that size environment maybe their fragility would be less evident. Wonder if the Tang killifish could fit--another fragile one based on my experience.

Take your time and go a phase at a time and evaluate, especially on the fish, when you get past the temporary deal on the sealant.

Will be watching the postings with great interest--you got a one of a kind working.


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## Bweb

Hydralic Cement would seal that crack it expands when it sets up I use it all the time to stop leaks in house foundations I'm not sure the silicone will hold with all that water pressure.

That tank is amazing good Job.


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## Ardeus

Great tip! Thanks.

Right now I'm filling the tank to make the crack open as much as it can (it's covered with silicone). I'll wait for the silicone to break, then I'll take all the water out and try hydraulic cement.

katytropheus: I think I'm going to follow your advise and go much slower with the fish.


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## padlock 08

probably a stupid question but aren't you worried about anaerobic build up in the sand which could kill all your fish?? it seems like a lot of sand to churn around every couple of weeks :lol: :lol:

oh, and whats your idea for the video of the tank?? (going back to the web-cam on the toy submarine, which i think would ruin your viewing experiance because there are no toy subs with camera's attached in the lake)

and could you not color the floor black or dark grey with some form of epoxy instead of the rocks under the multie's, or even better cover the floor with silicone or similar and put a load of sand on it so the base always looks like has some sand on it even though your down to the floor
IMO this would be better than the rocks cos if any rockdwellers get in then your centre-piece colony is a thing of the past.

-Paul, who's never (yet) kept tanganyikan's but is highly interested in them and is trying to convince his mom to let him set up the spare 15g as a home for 7 multi's


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## Ardeus

Hi Paul.

The sand will cause problems if it's disturbed. I don't count on messing around with it not every two weeks or 2 years. That sand can't be disturbed at deeper levels.

In salt water tanks, DSB (Deep Sand Bed) is a concept that is used to reduce nitrates in water. Most people implement it in the sumps or refuges and a few, in the tanks themselves. But when a powerhead falls and starts directing its flow to the sand... big problem.

There are areas in this tank with over 15" of sand.

I'm getting a bit fed up with the small and big problems of the tank. To be honest, I don't even know how to distinguish them anymore.

So, as patience runs out, I just want to get it over with.

Today I spent the day surrounded by mud, while the base for the filter was being built a few meters away from the tank. Now there's mud, mud and mud instead of lawn.

Today it was also the plumbing day and I managed to see the filter running for a few seconds. The water goes in by gravity through a 4" tube and it flow out through a 2" tube. The flow is absurd, it looks like a firemen hose. I don't think any other circulation would be needed.

Since I'm going to put 3 layers of shells for the Multies, I think I don't need to bother about the blue floor, when they dig. I think I'm just going to take your warning and talk all the rocks out.

I'll do that while I remove some sand, because there are more cracks along the path of the previous ones.

But the idea of gluing sand to the floor is amazing. I have some silicone left, I'll thing about it, cause all it takes is a very thin layer. Thanks!

I'll talk more about the video thing on a day when I'm in a better mood. :wink:

My next project will be a 10 gallon cube with a couple of Brevis.


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## katytropheus

I can't imagine your undertaking. I went nuts upgrading to a Koralia 7 over a Koralia 4 to make sure that it was big enough for the magnet to hold based on the thickness of the glass (and I bug the **** out of a maintenance service I use).


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## Rick_Lindsey

It might be worth at least considering digging up the weakened area, digging out 10" of dirt, and then filling with your cement to ensure a nice solid base.... if there's a thin area of concrete that broke when you filled the tank, I'd be worried about it breaking again a few months down the line...

maybe I'm just paranoid though . I'm talking completely out of my butt since i've never done anything even remotely like this project before, and good on ya for taking on this project! The rest of us will watch in envy!

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## Ardeus

I don't have much patience to solve this kind of problems... there are times when I'm ready to turn this thing into a flower bed.

The idea of digging up the weakened area... may be I'll end up doing that, but I'm going to try to cover the whole area with silicone, at least to try to either solve the problem or make the floor or to make the ground collapse all it has to collapse.

I'm going away for a week in a few days and I would like to let the tank running, to see if there are no more leaks.


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## gman87

Out of curiosity, how much have you spent on this venture?

Featherfins would look awesome in there with their large sand craters!


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## DJRansome

Sounds like you need a consult from an engineer to advise on materials and construction to do the job of holding that much water. Might be just a little tweak you need...you've come this far. And once he/she advises, you could relax and feel more confident that it will all work and be worth it in the end.

Now I'm skeptical about the shellies working. But even if they don't you'll have a nice tank.


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## padlock 08

well i'm glad to hear that i could be of at least a little help :thumb: 

hmm, a freshwater DSB, unorthodox and something i've looked into doing myself but never got round to it in my reef, i can't wait to seehow this works out and if it does work (which it should) then you'll have very very effective method of nitrate control.

you were saying that you may have a population explotion with your shellies, how about some syno's or, dare i say it fronts added in 12-18 months? they should control population sufficiently and as fronts don't tend to move particularly fast or wonder all over the place then they should not ruin the thesis of the tank not being a cage

can't wait to hear about that vid idea :fish:

hope the tedious aspects of the build sort themselves out, Paul


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## Ardeus

gman87: I don't know and I'm afraid of knowing, cause there's a lot of things I should be doing with this money instead of spending it on an aquarium, namely, saving it because I don't know when I'm going to get more 

Featherfins would look great. They are not going in early, if they will ever enter the tank. But it's hard to resist. I'm sure that I would like to try a small group of Benthochromis later and even 1 or 2 male Cyathopharynx. Females it's a whole different story, but right now I just dream with them.

If the tank holds until the 28th Sept, I'll bring the first fish from my parents home.

DJRansome: I know what a specialist would say: make a new base for the tank. The cracks were very small, but the water was only there for a few hours and maybe just 2/3 of the volume. If the silicone doesn's solve the problem, I will have to do something drastic, like building a new base or turning the whole thing into a flowerbed.

In my parents home I have a 235 gallon tank with 6 shellies species, Buescheri and a few large old fish and they get along, even to my surprise. So I'm wondering why you think shellies won't work. What problems do you see coming?

padlock 08: Today I removed all the rock under the Multies area. I looked into my silicone stock and I think I would need to buy a lot of tubes to cover the ground in their area. I only have 2 left and I'm saving them for the last tries in mending the cracks. I'm waiting for the silicone I put today on the new cracks to dry and then I will try to fill the tank again.

I don't like syno's very much, they don't stop still and don't have territories. Right now, they're not an option. Adult Frontosas will never be an option. I change channel on tv when I see an animal eat another.

But I can deal with young ones, maybe until 3 inches. It would be nice to have 3 or 4 young Frontosas. I never had them and I would like to grow them maybe from 2" until 4". How lond does it take?

About fry survival, there's something fascinanting I forgot, that I saw often at my parents aquarium. The shellbeds where Multies live provide excellent shelter to many other fry. I've seen Buescheri, Altolamprologya's fry living there without many problems. I even saw an awful hybrid Altolamprologus compressisseps "Sumbu" X Lepidilamprologus boulengeri living there. Only male Multies chase them, and not to often. I found they get accostumed to them.

I also saw that when they grow a little, they end up moving away from the shellbed.

This has tremendous implications in this tank. This means that many fry from Brevis, Ocellatus, Sumbu's and others, will survive in the Multies shellbed.

After lot's of moving rock and sand (it started just because I needed to clear the area surrounding the cracks), here are a few pics:





















It's not easy to take a picture that captures the tank as it is, because the sand has many levels and that looks nice. I just don't have the ability to take a picture that captures this well.


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## Tiberian

What cracked? Did I miss something?


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## padlock 08

i don't know how long it would take to grow them out in a tank of those monster proportions and don't have any first hand experiance to offer but i read an article somewhere saying of a person in the states that had a frontosa pond and grew juvies out in it over the summer in a space of 3-4 months. it's my understanding that fronts are a nocturnal animal so you most probably won't see any eating's, (which are so fast that i high speed camera is needed to properly observe it i believe) you would most likley just notice that the population explosion levels out. i'd say you could grow them from 1" or under to 5" or so before you'd feel the need to shift them on, they could go towards food bills and the likes


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## Ardeus

I'm trying to avoid any kind of predation inside, but things change and I have to review my plans.

Today, while I was testing the tank again, a friend put a bunch of Salvinia in the tank, just to see if the paint would harm the plant.

A few minutes later I say a dragonfly larvae on the bottom of the tank, big enough to kill a shellie.










How to deal with them? Any tricks to make them go away? Any fish treatment that has a side effect of killing them?

Since this was just a test, I'm going to take the water out and whatever is left inside will dry.


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## jd_7655

Not many people have to deal with dragon fly's in their aquarium. I'd say find something that will eat them. Frontosas, Catfish (synodontis), or compressicepts.


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## padlock 08

looks like you'll have to get the fronts now to deal with this problem. i see your point but i still think there are too many positives about fronts to pass them up, it's your decision at the end of the day


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## BioG

Dragon flies (Odonata) are egg layers which prefer stagnant water. Some water movement (surface) and, especially no plants emerging from the tanks surface will deter female dragonflies from laying in there. Maybe cycle with larger fish to rid the tank of larger nymphs, but once you've cleared the big ones out, the newly hatched ones won't stand a chance against Altos. When your Altos are 3-4 inches, they will suck up a two inch dragon fly nymph.

Odonata do feed on small fish occasionally but they have no paralytic venom etc. so I suspect Multis will be much to girthy to be detained by a 2 inch nymph. They generally feed on slow, thin fish like neon tetras or white clouds both of which are about half the size of an adult multi.

My guess is, once you've nailed all the large ones, the eggs won't get passed the multis or any of the others. Odonata eggs are about the size of a drop of water so, big enough for fish who feed on insect larvae to find.

For now, catch yourself a single crawfish and a catfish and put them in there as nymph patrol until the real fish arrive. HTH


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## Ardeus

Thanks for the help. But the tank is now dry, so I guess there's no chance the big ones will survive.

I've seen Multie colonies provide shelter for fry of many species and I thought that dragonfly nymphs could seize the opportunity too. But they move very differently from a fish, they don't run and hide in the same way, so I guess that Multies would be able to kill or chase them away when they are small. Even when they are big... a Multie wouldn't stand having that kind of neighbour and would attack it, I guess.

On the rocks, things would be impossible for them, there aren't any small crevices.

They could live in the Vallisnerias and I simply don't see any fish of my fish list actively hunting for them.

Even Calvus, Compressisseps of Frontosas wouldn't hunt them there much. They are opportunistic feeders.

If this was a Malawi tank, I would know how to solve the problem: female haps and peacocks are formidable hunters of small things (male haps like Protomelas, Copadichromis, etc are useless). They actively hunt, they even do it in small groups. I wonder if female Ophthalmotylapias have the same kind of behaviour.

But a bigger problems appeared: the back wall started to give in, opening cracks... this thing is turning into a money pit. Time to press pause on the project.


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## gman87

Just a few pointers you may or may not be aware of about concrete.

It is possible to run load calculations to find the right thicknes and height you can build with the type pressure the water will create.

When you pour concrete, the less water you put in it while mixing (stiffer) will make it stronger.

Sometimes, additives are put into the concrete to help it cure faster when the weather is cooler. These can affect strength.

When you pour your walls and columns, it is very important to lower a vibrator into the cavity to get the voids out of the concrete.

You want to keep the concrete moist as it cures. You get 70% of final stregnth in a few days and almost 100% after 4 weeks or something like that.

You also need to consider if you need joints due to expansion and contraction.

I remember reading a DIY article about building large plywood aquariums. I don't recall the inner coating that was used but it may work for your project too.

This is all from memory and off the top of my head but I hope you finish your project and post pics for us. :thumb:


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## padlock 08

i'm sorry to hear your stopping this project, it is a fascinating one


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## Wvack

It's a dream! I hope that you manage to get it fixed eventually...


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## Cole1309

Luccckkkkkkky. This is gonna be so sweet when its complete


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## Petrochromislover

can we see update pics


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## aandfsoccr04

don't give up now after all this work..


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## saminur

are any new pics coming????


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## axelfoley

any updates? how is this project coming along?


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## Longstocking

Let me ask my husband for some advice for you. He works in commercial concrete :thumb:

I'll get back to you later with his answer.... sorry about the cracks etc.... 

I really liked where you were going with the tank and will try and help via hubby !!


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## ssondubs

I vote TANK OF THE MONTH and this tank is yet to be filled with water!


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## jcampos8782

Your tank epitomizes what my girlfriend fears our future will be like lol


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## SAMhap

no pictures anymore????
come on ardeus man more.


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## ahud

I don't think he has been on for awhile. He has to abandon the build or else he would have posted more pics. These type of tanks are not the things that people like us keep to ourselves :lol:


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## ssondubs

Like many DIY projects money and time always is the limiting factor. He is a inspiration to those that appreciate our hobby and want to take it a step further.


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## smidey

this is just brilliant!


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## BioG

Maybe instead of funneling thousands of our own dollars into our "dream" setups we should pool $2ea. into our favorite projects that are presented online?

Godd idea Huh? OK, here are the rules, I go first! :lol:

(Funny I haven't received any donations yet... Hmmm)


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## SAMhap

anymore pic bro?  was looking amazing. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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## des

Not likely going to happen

Ardeus:


> I try not to remember that aquarium. There's a crack somewhere under all those rocks and sand and the front glass is cracked. And I no longer live there.
> 
> So the tank on the teaser is my outdoor tank now


He has a video teaser of a series he's working on. Go over to the Aquarium Photography and Video forum for the thread and link to his video.


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## andy1985

Ahh man i was reading the thread and just ended does anyone know if he kept going?


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## axelfoley

there was a crack in the concrete and a leak around the glass. the owner abandoned the project and moved.

disappointing, eh? was looking forward to following this build...


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## andy1985

Ahhh that is a big shame


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## Ardeus

Hi everyone.

This was a really bad idea. I do regret it. Neither the right time, nor the right place.

The only good thing about it is that I learned to be more cautious about these things.

Meanwhile, I'm finishing a documentary series on Multies, I will start to edit the last episode next week: http://www.brotherfish.pt.to

I haven't given up on building something big. And if it ever will happen in my life, it's going to be soon.


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