# Sunken Bellies



## bones06 (Sep 26, 2007)

Hi all,

Been having an issue with both my tanks the last 2 weeks. It started out with a few of the fish getting sunken bellies and some fin/tail rot. I admit that I slacked for a month on water changes due to school and family. I also found out that a few of my "male" were actually females holding in my all male 180 gallon show tank. There was a huge amount of aggression going on. I did remove the known females, and have recently removed a very aggressive male Afra Cobue to my 55g oddball tank. I did 3 treatments of Jungle Labs Parasite Clear tabs, and have been doing water changes now twice a week. I'm pretty sure a few of them had bloat due to the white stringy poo, but they were still eating fine. Some of my large haps/peacocks bellies are still sinking in so now what? I've successfully dealt with bloat several times in the past so now I'm stumped. I was thinking Maracyn/Maracyn 2, but since it's a 180g that could get pricey. I will do it if I have to, but would like some other suggestions, or advice. Water quality and parameters are now perfect, and this tank has been an established one for over 2 yrs now.
Thanks Again


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi

So in both tanks the issue was sunken bellies and now even after 3 rounds of JPC you're still seeing a few sunken bellies. Aggression has been a problem and water quality is suspect since you got a little slack on the water changes. (Happens to me, too)

Well it could be that they just need a little more time. Are you actually seeing them eat? Are they swimming normally around the tank and how is the aggression in the tank now?

Sometimes fish who are being harrassed won't eat--much or enough. So that's one possibility. 
It could also be an internal bacterial infection and sorry, the two Maracyns would be the way to go. If you're just seeing the symptoms in a few fish then you could remove those fish and treat them in a separate tank. :roll: I know that's not a great answer as I imagine they're not going to just let you catch them. :roll: 
Improving water quality will help but I'm not sure it will turn things around if it is in fact a bacterial infection since it's been going on for so long. 
One other possibility is to feed all the fish Metronidazole soaked food for ten days-two weeks. I prefer to make the medicated food myself using the food they are accustomed to but you can also buy it already made.

Robin


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## bones06 (Sep 26, 2007)

Robin said:


> Hi
> 
> So in both tanks the issue was sunken bellies and now even after 3 rounds of JPC you're still seeing a few sunken bellies. Aggression has been a problem and water quality is suspect since you got a little slack on the water changes. (Happens to me, too)
> 
> ...


Hi Robin,
The fish are all eating like pigs, but I've been feeding them very lightly. I used the anti parasite food last week and will continue as directions state. Aggression is much less now that the female is out and the Cobue male is gone. Does Metro treat bacterial infections or is it just for the treatment of bloat? I did pick up some of JPC anti bacterial food today and am going to give that a try too. As far as the Maracyns go after looking around I couldn't even find enough to treat my tanks. According to the direrctions I'd need to use 200 packets just for the 5 day treatment and nobody has that much even together. I am going to go to the lfs and see if they have any powdered Met to mix with the food. If not I will have to order it from Drs Fostersmith online. Is there anything in feed stores like tractor supply that I could buy in bulk that is compared to the Maracyns? I may even ask the biology dept at my college to examine a fish that I will be putting down. His belly is way to sunken in to treat him, so maybe that can turn something up. It is just so weird because they are extremely active, eating and acting as if nothing is wrong. They just keep getting the sunken belly. Oh and I definitely would have to treat the whole tank because it definitely spread to at least half of them. Not to mention some of them are 6-8 inches long and would not fit in my 10g qt tank lol.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

You should definitely try the met - soaked food. Metronidazole is used as both an antibacterial and an antiparasite med. It doesn't work on _all_ bacterias or _all_ parasites but it's definitely worth a try. Some years ago I had a juvenile group of yellow labs that had sunken bellies and the met soaked food worked for them.

Seachem use to sell metronidazole in a powder--hopefully they still do . What I did was I dissolved the met in a very small amount of water and then soaked their pellets--I feed NLS, in the mixture and fed it to them. It's a little tricky getting the met in the food without the food totally breaking down into mush. Seachem has another product made to hold the food together--forget what it's called but you can find it on their web site easy enough. Might be called Focus--not sure.

Don't be afraid to go fairly strong on the met. It's supposedly hard for fish to O-D on it and I think the challenge with doing it yourself is getting enough of the met into your fish. I'd feed them ten-fourteen days.

Robin


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## bones06 (Sep 26, 2007)

I just got back from the lfs and luckily they had the powdered Metro, and they gave me a sheet of frozen mysis to mix it with. They told me that the nls pellets I normally feed does not hold the metro well and turns to mush, so I would be better off cutting a few chunks of the frozen mysis, mix in a scoop or two of the metro, let it soak for 20 minutes and then dump it in. They said that since the tank is haps/peacocks they are ok eating the mysis shrimp as a med delivery food. I do have 1 Acei in there, but they said he will be ok too. They didn't think that the Maracyn combo would work, and that it still sounds like a parasite problem vs bacterial one. The guy said that if they are as active as I describe, and eating normal that also points more towards parasites. I just mixed up the first batch of shrimp and metro and boy does that frozen shrimp stink. Let me know your opinion on the route they told me to take. 
Thanks again


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> Let me know your opinion on the route they told me to take.


It sounds good. You really can't tell if its bacterial or parasites just from the symptom of sunken belly and where the Metronidazole is reasonably good for both it's a wise choice. 
. 
There is a bacterial disease, its common name is 'Skinny Disease', (don't know if it has another one) that has the symptom of a sunken belly and the fish go on for a month or more eating but never filling out. For some reason Clown Loaches seem to get it a lot. Towards the end the fish's skull bones will seem to be sticking out. 
The only treatment I've ever heard for it is the Maracyn combo.

The thing with fish illnesses is that many of them show the same or similar symptoms. Without culturing something under a microscope its nearly impossible to say with 100% certainty what a fish has unless its something straight forward like ich or Anchor worm. So we treat the fish for what we think _it most likely has_ and if it doesn't work, and the fish hangs in there long enough we try something else.

Add to that the fact that we're doing this over the internet and its surprising how often we get it right. 

Let us know how it goes. 
Robin


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