# AC110 or Emperor 400 ?



## Courteau (Nov 19, 2008)

which one of those two would you suggest
AC110 or Emperor 400 ?
the tank is a 40g long


----------



## Regalis (Feb 2, 2007)

I have owned the ac110 before but not the emperor 400. From what I hear the emperor is made of much more durable material and is more heavy duty, but is quite loud. Some say it isn't even tolerable in living spaces. My ac110 is pretty quiet but I have no Marinelands to compare it to. However, I will say that if I ever had to buy another large HOB I would definitely try the emperor because the ACs can be very irritating with the cheap material and constantly vibrating lid.


----------



## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd go with the Emperor 400 or even the Penguin 350 mainly because the AC110 is almost double the price what it used to be at $79.99 (used to be $44.99) :x

I have 3 Penguin 350's and have no issues with them but I don't use the Bio-Wheels. I took them off and put pot scrubbers in them instead.

I was going to get an AC110 myself but instead I'm going to get a Quiet One 3000 that is $44.99 and make a DIY wet/dry filter as that is more cost effective and better value in my opinion.


----------



## Courteau (Nov 19, 2008)

here in canada both filter are the same price (69.99$)


----------



## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Iâ€™ve used several of all three (AC, Emp & Pen) each for a number of yearsâ€¦

The Emps are a step ahead of the Pen in most ways and costs a little more. Each are decent filters but the Emp is worth the little bit extra (IMO).

When an AC110 and an Emp 400 are set up new with stock media, you can see the difference between the (rated) 500 gph and the (rated) 400 gph. Both slow down over time at similar rates, but the AC will â€˜bottom outâ€™ at a certain gph but the Emp will continue to slow down until the water just spills over without passing through media (due to the cartridge design).

If cared for thoroughly, both filters can run as quiet as an HOB can run for a year or twoâ€¦ the ACs can take a little more sand/crud before showing wearâ€¦ The Emp/Pen will slowly get louder and louder with wear, the ACs go from real quiet to a bit of noise (like flipping a switch) when they reach their tipping point of wear.

The concept of the Bio Wheels is a really good one, if you can keep the wheels turning they work (good luck). But I usually take them off. I also have the Bio Wheel attachment for the Magnum 350 (also Marineland) but I havenâ€™t used it in years. It simply caused more problems than itâ€™s worth and was too clunky.

What makes me highly prefer the AC110 over the Emp 400 (or Pen 350) is the ease of cleaning. I can remove the sponge out of 4 AC 110s, rinse it out and have them back running in 10~15 minutes and it doesnâ€™t cost a penny (I have some sponges that are 5+ years old). The cartridges are a little more tedious to rebuild or are expensive to replace. If I include clean up time it would take me a lot more than 10~15 minutes to clean 4 Emp 400s (or would cost more if replacing cartridges, which has to be done too often).

So in my experience the AC110 is a better filter and is worth a little more, but none of them are â€˜bad filtersâ€™. I bought 12 AC 110s on a great sale a few years ago. I still have 3 in boxes  I donâ€™t think I would pay $80 for an AC110 thoughâ€¦ for that price tag I expect more than an HOB.

I should also put a disclaimer on this. I havenâ€™t bought an Emp or Pen filter in about 4 years. The last Pen filter I bought was a 330, but I did get a used 350 in a trade. The last Emp 400 I bought is on a friends tank and is at least 4 years old. But the AC won my business and I have a few that are 5 years old.

Sorry for rambling... I ate too much...


----------



## demonsoni (Feb 10, 2006)

ac110 or a canister.


----------



## sjlchgo (Mar 2, 2008)

AC110 hands down! I prefer the Aquaclear over any of the HOB filters. They provide much better suction and filtration if you ask me. I have a 75 gallon with both the ac110 and the Emperor 400 and the AC outperform the Emp! The price difference is worth it!


----------



## Courteau (Nov 19, 2008)

i check around the my local store and the AC110 is way cheaper than the emperor
120$CAN for the AC110 and 200$ for the Emperor 400

But online both are 69.99$CAN so i think im gonna order the AC110


----------



## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Didn't realise you were in Canada when I was quoting prices; sorry about that.

As they are both the same price then I'd say get the AC110. Like I said earlier, if they were all about the same price here in the US, then I'd go get an AC110 over the Emperor or Penguin anyday.


----------



## thevein (May 10, 2006)

AC 110 for sure, very versatile and quiet, doesn't cost n e thing to take the sponge out, rinse and pop it back in.

Now, the increase in price is due to the simple fact of supply and demand. This is how business works. As a small business owner, I can understand. If you have a quality product, and I believe the AC is, as the demand increases I see no problem with the price increase. This is how economics and economies run.


----------



## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

My Emperor only got loud when I let the water level drop and it ran dry before I caught it. Before that it was very quiet for years in a tank kept in a family room. Never had to increase the tv volume becuase of it.

I've used them since they have come out, the biowheel is still the most amazing biological filter outside of fluidized sand beds. Unless using another source of biological filtration (wet/dry or fluidized sand), I only get the Emperor/Penguins as HOB.


----------



## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

I got rid of the only AC filter I've ever had because it was loud and the clear plastic is brittle so that when I dropped the lid, it cracked. The Emperors are made of a more flexible plastic and I doubt would break as easily if dropped.

If the filter gets clogged in the Emperors, part of the outflow will bypass the filter so you do need to make sure the filters are cleaned or replaced regularly. I liked the ease of sliding the cartridges in and out more than taking out the sponge on the AC.

I've never had the wheels stop on the Emperors in the 3 or more years I've had them but I do have problems with the wheel on the little Penguin 100 stopping when the intake or filter cartridge is dirty.

I'd buy another Emperor or try one of the new HOBs that have a built in skimmer.


----------



## demonsoni (Feb 10, 2006)

I think people are buying into the hype of the biowheel. As far as the bypass when filters are dirty, they are not doing anything to filter water including using the biowheel. If the design on the emps is so good why arent there 10 different emperor knockoffs? The fact is ac's have stood the test of time without gimmicks. Also the ac 110 has more gph than the emperor. My choice will always be a good canister, but when it comes to comparing the emperor and AC my bet is more than half the people registered at Cichlidforum would choose the AC as the better filter.


----------



## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

I have both and by value I think the emperor 400 is better. Right now the AC is too expensive.
By operation I am partial to AC's. However, I have customized my Emp 400 media and like it much more now than initially. Those cartridges cost way too much money. 
I guess you have to just look at the pro's and con's of each filter. My new approach is using a single filter to achieve a specific goal. One filter is for mechanical and the other is for biological. I ditched the carbon years ago.
I run a lot of filter floss in my Emperor 400 to keep the water polished and particle free.
In my AC I put 2 sponges and and a pre-filter sponge on the intake. 
I think it is wise to take advantage and exploit the strengths of each filter. 
On the noise issue, neither filter makes much noise in my application.


----------



## moneygetter1 (Jan 8, 2006)

8) I guess I'm kinda partial since I've owned so many different A/C's. (200's, 300's & 500's. Yes, Hagen & I go back a ways.) Some choose to focus solely on the difference in price between the A/C's & Emps. I believe price is important but function & performance are not to be overlooked when making a fair comparison. As to water movement, media flexibility, ease of maintainance & parts availability the A/C 500 (110) wins hands down! There are always gonna be products that cost less if that's what you want. My preferance will generally be the best performing product I can afford. If the lesser priced Emp is all your budget will allow, you'll still have a fairly good HOB but if you can put up a few extra bucks, the A/C 110 (500) will reward you w/ years of excellent service. JMPO, "T"


----------



## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

I vote for the emperor 400, or even penguin 350s. I have heard good and bad about aqua clear, but for the price difference i would stick to marine land. I have not had experience with AC filters or emperors. But from what i have heard the emperor 400 and penguin 350 are basically the same thing. I really dont even know what the real difference is. (if someone knows could you tell me?) I do run two penguin 350s on my 60g that is about 5 feet from where I sleep. I dont find it nearly as loud as what people claim it to be. The water trickle is pretty loud I guess, but its water trickle, so its not that loud. The filter itself runs very quiet in my experience. These filters have done great for me.


----------



## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

The differant between the Emperor line and the Penguin line is a second motor within the housing. The penguin uses the normal overflow to power the biowheel, which means if the water flow slows enough due to lack of cleaning, the biowheel stops moving and resultant loss of bacteria (not that any filter should get this bad!!!). The second motor in the Emperor powers a spray bar that works the biowheel, so even if the filter gets bad enough where the water flow is only a trickle out of the return, the biowheel keeps turning.


----------



## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks *dwarfpike* :thumb:

Never was quite sure what the difference was. In that case. I know it wasn't an option, but I vote penguin 350. I have not had an issue with mine and think they work well. It gives great filtration at a fraction of the cost of the others. Just gotta keep up with maintenance.


----------



## sjlchgo (Mar 2, 2008)

You forgot to mention that that spray bar also gets clogged and you have to routinely clean them or they stop working also. This is the main reason I don't like them. The AC is easy to maintain, inexpensive to own. You might pay a little more buying them but you don't have to buy their media over and over. Just take out the sponge, clean it and put it back. I only use carbon IF and when I get odors. I usually keep my tanks clean so that isn't a problem for me.


----------



## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

My spray bar as never gotten clogged in the 7+ years of continual use.


----------



## Agnag (Dec 1, 2008)

I customized my pen 350 with AC sponges, I like the AC better because it's easier and cheaper to maintian and in my opinion it filters the water just as well if not better.


----------



## Agnag (Dec 1, 2008)

The AC plastic might crack easier then the EMP, but why are you dropping your HOBs anyway. I never have to take the filter off the tank, the media is held in place by that plastic bracket, it slides right out.


----------



## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

Good point Agnag! 8)


----------



## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

dwarfpike said:


> The differant between the Emperor line and the Penguin line is a second motor within the housing. The penguin uses the normal overflow to power the biowheel, which means if the water flow slows enough due to lack of cleaning, the biowheel stops moving and resultant loss of bacteria (not that any filter should get this bad!!!). The second motor in the Emperor powers a spray bar that works the biowheel, so even if the filter gets bad enough where the water flow is only a trickle out of the return, the biowheel keeps turning.


Both of our Emp 400's have but a single motor.... just that some of it is diverted upwards to the biowheels. Never clogs though. 

To the person who thought bio-wheels are overrated: whatever. :roll: Bacteria need oxygen, and the biowheel maximizes the exposure to oxygen. It's a *really* effective system. I've had to overstock my 75g's occasionally, and the biological filtration easily handles whatever bioload you throw at it. Other advantages are that you *know* where your biological filtration is, so you can do whatever you please in cleaning/replacing the mechanical media. Plus, you can seed a new tank instantly by simply swapping an established biowheel over to the new tank/Emperor.

-Ryan


----------



## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

> Plus, you can seed a new tank instantly by simply swapping an established biowheel over to the new tank/Emperor.


I fully agree :thumb: I have done this numerous times and have never had a problem. It makes cycling nearly if not completely unneccessary. The wheels work.

Also, a note about cleaning and maintainance... I have never timed how long it takes, but all I do is pull the "cartridges" out and rinse them along with my prefilter sponge. I have a pretty good DIY setup that consists of (4) 6"x9" Scotch-Brite pads, (2) old emp cartridges that I have removed the carbon and blue floss from and hot glued felt in its place. If needed, I can replace one or two of the scotch pads with the grey media baskets filled with carbon.

Each of these DIY cartridges is rinsed until the water runs out clear. If they ever stop being effective of get permanently clogged, they are cheap and easy to replace. The prefilter is just a piece of Big Al's black filter foam with a slit cut into it for the emp strainer. Originally I used AC foam, but I did not like the white color. Plus it got to be a nasty brown color after a month or 2. The black just looks better. Again just rinse until clean water runs out.

I have the same setup on a penuin 350, but given the choice, I would rather have another emp 400. It has more area in the media area and seems to run quieter. The bio-wheels are larger as well, giving more surface area for bac.


----------



## moneygetter1 (Jan 8, 2006)

> Quote:
> Plus, you can seed a new tank instantly by simply swapping an established biowheel over to the new tank/Emperor.
> 
> I fully agree I have done this numerous times and have never had a problem. It makes cycling nearly if not completely unneccessary. The wheels work.


 8) Good point but I've done the same w/ my A/C500. Had to setup one of my sic tanks (29g) in a hurry so I pulled the entire basket out of the one on my 125g & swapped w/ the basket for the one on the 29g. Didn't miss a beat. Instant cycle on the 29g. (125g was fine cause of the 2 other filters). "T"


----------



## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

> Quote:
> Plus, you can seed a new tank instantly by simply swapping an established biowheel over to the new tank/Emperor.
> 
> I fully agree I have done this numerous times and have never had a problem. It makes cycling nearly if not completely unneccessary. The wheels work.


I haven't officially "cycled" a tank since I've learned what cycling was... Every time I start a new tank I start it with a filter or at least filter media from an old tank. This can be done with the biowheels, but can be done just as simply with the ceramic rings in the AC...


----------



## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

Toby_H said:


> I haven't officially "cycled" a tank since I've learned what cycling was... Every time I start a new tank I start it with a filter or at least filter media from an old tank. This can be done with the biowheels, but can be done just as simply with the ceramic rings in the AC...


In theory, it should be doable... but I've always had a difficult time by just transferring some of the filter element/media over to a spare tank in a pinch. I'll snag some filter sponge from an established tank, put it into the other filter, and soon afterward I can measure the ammonia climbing up. :?

With the biowheel, you can just swap over one whole element quickly and easily, and "whump" the new tank is ready to rumble.

As for the simplicity of cleaning, on both of our 75g's we have an Emp 400 and a Magnum 350 Pro (w/ two biowheels). You can just throw the biowheel into the tank to keep it from drying out, then take the rest of the filter to the sink and scrub out all of the gack with nice and hot chlorinated water and basically restore it to "like new" flow rate without having to worry about harming the biological filtration.

I find them convenient, others may not... to each their own! :lol:

-Ryan


----------



## maxim240sx (Jan 17, 2005)

I'd like to say that I think the AC is more reliable over time. I have had the same ac110 for 5 yrs and the only thing I've replaced is the impeller, and that was just 3 months ago. I have had numerous marineland HOBS. On the same tank I've went though 3 emperor 400's and one penguin 350. I like the 400's but they dont last that long IMO. I did buy another 400 when I replaced the impeller in the AC only because it was on sale for $35 from big als. And as far as noise is concerned, the ac is def quieter.


----------



## pdb (Feb 26, 2005)

A big plus for the ac110 is you can change the motor out (last I checked it was 13.99 on line), far cheaper than a new filter. You'll have to replace the complete filter on the emperor 400, the motor is epoxied in and you can't buy it separate.

I have used both for years. The ac110 is much quieter and filters more water. I vote for the ac110 by a large margin over my emperor. My emperor 400 will be replaced with an ac110 as soon as it quits on me. Granted, the emperor is a little cheaper now than the ac line but it's worth the difference in price to go with the ac110.


----------



## Cichness (Dec 27, 2006)

Personally, I like the AC110 and have since they were called AC500's. I have used both the Emperor and AC units for 12+ years and the AC units cost nothing to run. I just squeeze out the sponges every month or so and keep on running.

The motor swap feature is nice if you ever need it, but I have only had to change my impeller 1 time in 12 years on one unit.


----------



## femina (Dec 11, 2008)

Hi all, I've taken art class years ago and am a pretty good artist but have no idea when it comes to painting on stretch canvases. I've read plenty about oil vs. acrylic painting, but am wondering if it's possible to use paint at HD or Lowes? I don't really know for sure, but understand designers / artist use paint on wood pieces. Any answers will help. Please steer me away from HD and Lowes paint. Thank you in advance.


----------



## fishyfishyfishy (Dec 24, 2005)

Well, I never used an aquaclear, but there are a couple of features that keep me with my Emperor.

I like the easy to replace cartridges. Simple, quick replacement and I don't even have to get my hands wet. I've got many tanks and I try and keep them easy to maintain. I try to buy the cartridges when they're on sale combined with free shipping. This time of year is a great time to stock up on supplies.

The other is the multi level draw. I use it on a 30 gallon column tank that is about 5ft deep. The extension tube coupler has an adjustable intake strainer on it so I can pull water from the bottom and mid-levels of the tank at the sime time for improved filtration and circulation.


----------



## EHEIMFAN (Dec 13, 2008)

I prefer Eheim canister filters but if I was going to go with a power filter I would choose the Aquaclear, when it comes to power filters the Aquaclear is cheaper to use in the long run because you can rinse the sponges in old aquarium water time and time again. The filter cartridges with the Emperor don't last as long and get more expensive over time. Still after 17 years in the Aquarium industry I will choose my Eheim over anything.


----------



## josmoloco (Aug 23, 2008)

I bought my aquaclear 110 from pestmart for $62 using the online price guerentee. only drawback is the brittle plastic.


----------



## sjlchgo (Mar 2, 2008)

femina said:


> Hi all, I've taken art class years ago and am a pretty good artist but have no idea when it comes to painting on stretch canvases. I've read plenty about oil vs. acrylic painting, but am wondering if it's possible to use paint at HD or Lowes? I don't really know for sure, but understand designers / artist use paint on wood pieces. Any answers will help. Please steer me away from HD and Lowes paint. Thank you in advance.


*HUH???????????*


----------



## Something Fishy (Oct 23, 2002)

I've always had a preference for AC 110s. I payed $39.99 for each of my 5 AC110s a couple of years ago. But the last time I checked..... their prices skyrocketed. So I have to admit, if I needed another powerfilter today, I would either choose Marineland or Whisper.


----------



## demonsoni (Feb 10, 2006)

femina said:


> Hi all, I've taken art class years ago and am a pretty good artist but have no idea when it comes to painting on stretch canvases. I've read plenty about oil vs. acrylic painting, but am wondering if it's possible to use paint at HD or Lowes? I don't really know for sure, but understand designers / artist use paint on wood pieces. Any answers will help. Please steer me away from HD and Lowes paint. Thank you in advance.


Go buy your paint at HD and Lowes.


----------



## CichlidLover2 (Jul 31, 2005)

pdb said:


> A big plus for the ac110 is you can change the motor out (last I checked it was 13.99 on line), far cheaper than a new filter. You'll have to replace the complete filter on the emperor 400, the motor is epoxied in and you can't buy it separate.
> 
> I have used both for years. The ac110 is much quieter and filters more water. I vote for the ac110 by a large margin over my emperor. My emperor 400 will be replaced with an ac110 as soon as it quits on me. Granted, the emperor is a little cheaper now than the ac line but it's worth the difference in price to go with the ac110.


Are you talking about th motor or the impeller? I have replaced my impeller on the emp 400 with no problems. You should never really need to replace the motor unless you do something REALLY stupid.


----------

