# Tropheus with black patches?



## Rusties (Apr 9, 2010)

I recently purchased 8 juvenile tropheus moori kasanga, however some of them appear to have wierd black spots and patches on their body. Is this a fungus or some colouration that is normal? I have some pics which I cannot post due to the post limit.


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## Rusties (Apr 9, 2010)

Just trying to get post count up....


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## Rusties (Apr 9, 2010)

and another...


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## Rusties (Apr 9, 2010)

One more..


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## Rusties (Apr 9, 2010)

This is the barred one with black:










And the non barred guy with a small patch of black:



















Sorry best I could do with my phone!


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## myjohnson (Dec 28, 2007)

I would flush them. =D>


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Lot's of theories on what causes the black spots, most of which are nonsense. Some of my trophs had it and it went away with more frequent and larger water changes plus some added filtration. I'm going to blame it on poor water quality, but that might be nonsense as well. P.S, don't listen to M.J, he's probably had a few. :wink:


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

IMO its just something lots of young Kasanga have. (Shows up far more in stressed young fish) As said, keep em well and it should go. :thumb:

PS yours do not look like typical Kasanga to me unless still very young.
The black one esp.

Interesting to see how they develop with time.
I think it is an undesirable trait in Kasanga one which I used to select against when I used to breed them but dunno just how much it is genetic and how much is environmental.

I can not rule out any of the fungus or high spirulia food based or bird carried parasite based theories but I tend not to believe em iether as the usual caurse but..............

The reason will be melanin (black pigment) being laid down.
This could be caused naturally (OB gene etc) or damage to the skin cells in that area, and may also be linked to inbreeding.
If it goes after a while, then its just short term melanin from short term damage (eg ammonia burns bite damage or netting damage etc).

Watch out if it seems to be spreading as it could then be a fungus and then need treating, I think.

All the best James


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## Rusties (Apr 9, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. It seems all but one of them now show stripes. Since *** only had them 2 days and were shipped overnight I presume it was due to stress. I hope these black patches will clear up over time.


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## emre (May 4, 2010)

Black spots or marks are usually appear on fish that travel wrong journeys and lack oxygen or the ones in tank with low oxygen levels and usually this goes off once the conditions are fixed. Sometimes those unwanted dots etc. can be results or crossbreeding of different variants or lack of mating options, like same juvies of same parents reproducting non stop and over again.


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## smidey (Mar 15, 2007)

i have had similar markings on red zebras that ate food high in spirulina & it went away a few weeks after i stopped feeding that particular food. i also saw a colbalt blue that ate a spirulina tab for a BN, it had a dark beard for a couple of weeks before it cleared.


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## whatupcichlids (Apr 12, 2010)

Hey I just recently put a post about black spots on my Dragons Blood peacock..... Anyway heres the link I recieved. Read through it and take a guess on what you think it is.

http://www.freewebs.com/pbaquatics/articles.htm


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Well if it is on a dragons blood peacock (never been near the lake) it kind of rules out the bird carried pathogen (given as the only possible cause on the link) unless bred in ponds.

Dunno about the spirulina link. Some folk who feed high spirulina (35-50%) report they have not seen any black spots on thier cichilids, though, I have heard high spirulina blamed for this before. High spirulina leading to black spots has even expressed as fact, in respected publications like Enjoying cichlids (without any evidence).

The net OMG dunno how many crack pot ideas I have seen for the all encompasing caurse of black spots on that. Usually expressed as fact, usually without any supporting evidence. :roll:

All the best James


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## smidey (Mar 15, 2007)

with the red zebs it was definately the spiru as another keeper over here had the exact same thing & once he posted about it & let him know what i had experienced he also stopped feeding it & the markings went away over the next few weeks.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Surely they would have gone with just good water anyway, if due to ammonia burns, skin damage etc if melalin based laydown in damaged tissue? Proof would be re using the spirulina and the spots coming back, duplicated by stopping and starting the use a number of times on a number of diffent groups of fish and thus prove a caursal link.
Yep anacdotal evidence is worth investigating but until it is........................................... coincidence (and other thoeries) explains those results just as easily.

All the best James


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## smidey (Mar 15, 2007)

you can say what ever you wish but in this case these two instances were not the only evidence of it. it happened more than once to me when i was trying out different commercial foods.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Publish the findings and methods used. Would be useful to all cichlid keepers if we could quote a reliable set of experiments. :thumb:

All the best James


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## smidey (Mar 15, 2007)

:lol: 
so experience doesn't count until it's published then? i shall look into that so consultants with no actual experience can pretend to know what they are talking about as they can quote every written article available & they know how to do everything but have no fish to do it with.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

smidey said:


> :lol:
> so experience doesn't count until it's published then?


Not even then. It needs to stand the rigours of peer review before publication and testing by loads of folk trying to validate/unvalidate it afterward. Otherwise its just like the other "ideas" on this subject. Interesting idea (useful only to those willing to believe the experience without any suporting evidence and accept that it suggests your interpritation of why these things happened, assuming of caurse we believe they realy did and are not just evidence conjoured up to prove a theory) but not proven. :wink:

Only way I see to convert it from a theory you believe in, to a proven matter, is subject it to the normal scientific rigour of peer review and subsiquent testing.

All the best James


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## fubu56 (Aug 23, 2008)

Interesting topic for sure with no clear answer. I have a couple colony's of Tropheus and both arrived with several fish that had the dreaded black blotches. From my own experience I noticed that the majority of these spots went away gradually over time and only left minor blemishes where the spots were once very evident. 
I have no idea what causes the spots, however I tend to doubt the spirulina theory as I feed my Tropheus a combination of NLS Thera-A and spirulina everyday ! I have done this for several years now and I have NEVER had any instance of NEW spots appearing on any of my colony fishes or on any of my community tank Tropheus. In my community tank NONE of my other fish have any spots and they all eat spirulina as well.
All of my fish get different types of fresh vegetables on a fairly regular basis as well. This includes ORGANIC, romaine lettuce - sweet potatoes - and zucchini. Maybe the fresh veggies counteract the spirulina but I doubt it. At any rate this is my own experience and I hope sharing it may help with the debate


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## Rusties (Apr 9, 2010)

Interesting topic indeed. The black spots have started to clear up after 3 weeks, only 1 has major patches which has started to clear also. I have done nothing special, they are on a spirulina diet only, water isnt pristine, accidentally washed filter sponge in tap water instead of the tank water so a small trace of ammonia (0.25ppm) and nitrite (0.25ppm) and about 5ppm nitrate, 10% water change every 2 days. Strange!


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