# Is this Ich/Ick?



## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

I just recently got some Red Zebra's when I first got them home I didn't notice anything on them but now its been 2 days and I've started to notice whitish marks on them, I didn't quarantine them I added some to my 75 gallon and I put some of them smaller ones in my 10 gallon until they were big enough to go into the big tank. The ones in the 10 gallon are more noticeable but some of the ones that are in my 75 have them to but not all. I've also noticed that a couple of my other zebras that I already had now are showing a few marks as well but not really noticeable. I also have a few Acei's in my 10 gallon also but they have no marks at all.
Yesterday was when I noticed it, I did a 50% water change, added salt, and have my temp up to 86 F now. I figured I'd do what I could about it then get some pics to make sure this is what it is. I just wanted to be safe and didn't want it to spread anymore if it is Ich.
Here are a couple pics. as of right now the marks are around the head and by the gills. Hopefully you all can see it, I cant get very good pics from my 10 gallon not good enough light I guess.


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

Well since no one has replied I figured I'd get some arrows on my pics to point out where the spots are, I don't think theres a way to edit the original post so I'm just adding them now. It is the same pics just with arrows pointing out where the spots are, hopefully making them easier for everyone to see. It's hard to get a good pic of the spots because there so small.


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## Briguy (Aug 10, 2009)

I don't think it is Ich. My experience with Ich is it will be distributed all over the body and I usually see it on the fins first just because it is more visible. Definitely some external parasite and you should medicate.


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

would the heat and salt treatment work on all external parasites? or does it only work on ich? Well I purchased Wardley's essentials Ick Away made by Malachite Green. I've used that on my 10 gallon tank because the heater I have in there is set to only one temp and I cant raise it, it states on the bottle that it treats fungus and external parasites, so do you think that will work? I'm still going to continue the salt and heat on my 75 and see how that works until someone might have some more advice on what to do.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

It's hard to tell from your pictures if that's ich or not. You can check out the article on ich, (linked below), to see if the pictures/descriptions match what you're seeing on your fish.

Heat and salt works on ich and some other parasites. You have to use the correct amount of salt and keep the treatment going for at least ten days. Check out the article for details on how to treat with heat and salt.

Increasing water changes and gravel siphonings during an ich breakout will help. Of course you have to work around any medication you're using. Heat and salt works well with increased water changes because you just replace the salt removed with the water change and keep the temp at the same level.

Robin


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

I actually did read the article on here already thats how I knew about the heat and salt treatment. I actually just took all the fish from the 10 gallon and just added them all the 75 gallon. I figured the heat and salt will work better than the meds. I was worried that they were to small but none of the bigger ones are messing with them so hopefully they will be alright in there.
I originally added 1 tablespoon per 5 gallon. Should I have added more? Should I go ahead and add more still? I temp is up to about 87 and I figured that should be a good temp.
How often should I do water changes during an outbreak? I looked in the article and couldn't find where it stated how often, I started the treatment yesterday and did a 20% WC today and added back in the salt that I took out.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

1 tablespoon salt per five gallons is not enough for ich. And 87 is on the high side for heat. Might want to turn it down a few degrees.

For salt you're using sodium chloride, regular table salt without additives or aquarium salt and you want to go with 2-3 tablespoons per five gallons. Dissolve the salt first and then add it graduallly over several hours time.

As far as the partial water changes/gravel siphonings go: you can do them daily/every other day/ whatever, the more the better as long as you're using a good quality dechlorinator and you add back the salt that is removed with the water. (When adding back the salt you don't have to add it gradually but you should dissolve it first). Water changes are helpful during an ich infestation because when you remove water and siphon the gravel you are removing some, not all, of the parasites from your tank.

Good luck with it. Please post back with any questions or concerns

Robin


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

In my experience, which I might admit I am now repeating, ich will change rapidly. Almost hourly. I see it more in the fins/tails as you can see through them. Dark colored fish show it on the bodies very well. I might mention what I have just had brought home to me. I treated with a malachite green med. I knew to remove any carbon from filters but in my confusion, I only removed carbon from one cartidge on my Emperor 400 leaving the carbon in the second cartidge. Standard thinking is that old carbon is full and not doing anything anymore. Wrong. This cartidge is old and been rinsed at least ten times. What woke me up was that the fish seemed worse after treatment. Ich is rapid moving from fish to bottom to fish almost before your eyes. It has to be treated sooner the better. I woke up to the fact the filter had removed the med so I did a water change and removed the carbon and retreated. Within hours the fish came out of hiding and while still flashing and not normal they were eating again. If your fish do not respond, check yourself and redo if needed. Watch what you do as far as other tanks, it will transfer quite easily and you do not want that in other tanks. I got mine with new fish also. Control it before it is a pandemic.


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

None of my fish are acting strange and haven't that was another thing that confused me. They eat fine and do minimal flashing I mean like I see them do it just a couple times a day. They dont act stressed at all and the only ones that have it are the Zebra's. 
I only have 2 tanks and it is in both already. But I removed the fish from the 10 gallon and now have them all in the 75. I figured I'd work on the heat and salt treatment, since its not getting any worse it must be helping somewhat right? I'm getting ready to do another WC and adding more salt in this time. Temp is down to 85. I'm hoping within a day or two the spots will be gone so at least I know that its working somewhat.


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

mine have the same thing....im interested to see what it is too


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

i just left the fish store....the freshwater guy wasnt in and is not going to be in till monday so i talked to a saltwater guy....he said it was ick....the bumble bees there had the same thing...but he did say he didnt know much about it....he seem confident it was ick...

i talked to another saltwater girl...she said they were sold out of the meds and to raise the water temp and wait till monday....sooooo im raising it and added some of the buffer i have since it has salt...im going to take the temp to around 82.....

the guy im waiting for is like a cichlid god so hopefully this helps till i can talk to him....and if fish start dieing im blaming the girl i talked to lol


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

lol well I read a lot about ick and they said the best method is doing the heat and salt. and its a lot cheaper to that way. I'd imagine the meds work faster but as long as my fish are alive and dont seem like their under stress I'll continue using this method.


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

i have some marine buffer....would that be ok to use as salt to add to the water?


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

For a poor boy way to help determine if it is ich, you might try to do some carefull looking at some specifics. I think we all agree that ich has a pretty short cycle, even shorter at higher temps. If you can pick one specific fish that you have a picture of and compare the spots now to the spots in the photo it might help. If is the same spot on the same fish after several days, I would say it is not ich. It should have matured, fallen off and potentially returned but in a different place or pattern??? I'm finding I can tell by looking at my fish that the dots are different even from morning to night. I have one tetra that was a dither fish who got his tail torn off in another tank so he is easy to identify for sure. His spots are mostly gone now. A white spot that stays for several days would say not ich to me. No spots on fins or tail? I think not ich.


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

Ok I dont think it is Ich, The spots are still in the same spot as they were before beginning treatment. It doesnt seem to be getting worse just not better either. It's been 4 days since I started treatment and since it hasn't worked should I go ahead and actually try the meds. since the heat and salt isnt working? If I do switch to meds should I turn the temp back down or leave it up?


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

not to steal your thread but i have a few questions about my tank as well....

in short i bought a bumble bee that had very similar white spots and also had some redish lungs....shortly after i seen fish flashing and rubbing against rocks....i added salt and raised the temp to around 82-83

the bumble be is the only fish with spots...they moved around and are now almost all the way gone....

im assuming its getting better....i going to keep with the water changes and keep watching them...

on to the questions

1. they always seem really hungry should i feed them more since the temp is up incresing there metabolism?

2. how long should i keep the temp up?

3. does this sound like ick and does it normally go away this fast 1-2 days?

thanks and sorry again for posting in your thread...i think since the two are sililar maybe it will help you too


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Kaitlin 1227--- Almost certain it is not ich. After four days it would definitely be a noticable change. Highly unlikely that your remedy try is going to only hold it the same. Rather it should have been better or much worse. Definitly sure these are new spots and not just some form of color change showing that had not been noticed. Not an expert here but in my experience, fish disease moves fairly fast for better or worse. Since there is some hazard in treating with meds, if the fish are acting normal(eating, not hiding, no real flashing) I might be inclined to back off and take a wait and see. More fish have developed spots since you started the posting? That doesn't sound good. Any real experts reading this? I only feel I can comment on ich because I'm watching it on my fish. That sure doesn't qualify me as an expert to follow does it? Mine are dramatically better but I will do two more treatments as per instructions. Sorry, I can't feel your solution is there yet.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

White thunder--- Maybe I can shed some light on yours as it does seem to be ich. Big negative on the feeding more. While stressed they will tend to eat less and at higher temps less oxygen in the water makes overfeeding even more trouble. Might suggest even backing off just a bit or skipping a meal now and again. They will always tell you they are starving if they feel right at all. I would keep the temp up for maybe ten days. Have you read the article about ich? Very good info there. What you do not want to do is stop before ALL the little buggers in whatever stage, are dead. That would mean starting over with a new infestation. Ever hear people who have a cold,etc. and go get medicine for ten days. They tell you it really worked great and they stopped taking it after five days but the cold came right back. That's because they didn't kill ALL the little bugger and just beat it back for a short term. Do the full treatment and hope they are dead forever as far as your tank goes. Item 3-- Yep. Comes on fast, goes fast but they may just be down in the gravel waiting to bust out again. If they show up again, it quite likely is a new hatch. Just keep killing till they stop showing up. Mine look and act well but they are getting the green two more times over the next few days even if they do hate it. :? :fish:


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

yeah i read it but i like to ask questions to make sure....

none of the fish seem to have lost any desire to eat...

they come to the top alot when i get around the tank and alot of them are out of the rocks latley....i figured its because of the raised temp....less oxygen....but them seem to be doing good....


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

Ok I have a new problem, the gills on some of my fish are starting to look redish. The Ammonia is good, at 0. I wonder if with all the water changes I've been doing recently if I haven't been adding enough dechlorinator. I have the API tap water conditioner and it says to add 1 drop per gallon and I fill up 5 gallon buckets and add 5 drops before adding it to the tank. How do I know if theres still chlorine in it? should I do another water change and add more stuff? I'm really hoping I can fix this before anything happens to any of my fish. Any new advise will be great. Thanks.
Oh and White Thunder, it doesnt bother me with you posting on here to, it actually did help, if you wouldn't have mentioned the red lungs I would have never looked at mine and noticed that they to were red.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I was hoping some of the other folks that have experienced this sort would join in. We're kind of like three blind men wandering around in the dark, huh? From the time I last posted to just now my fish have changed radically. I now see numerous spots both on fins and bodies and lots of flashing and looking just not right. I did a fifty percent water change as recommended on the med and I have now retreated the tank. As I understand the whole thing, this might not be that unusual. The med has to catch the buggers at just the right stage of life to kill them and There are certain to be a few that are not as easy to kill as others. Therefore the retreatment process. The gills seem to be one of the items that we can see that is affected by lots of parasites. Also medicine like I'm using can also be hard on gills. At this point I see no visible signs of gill problems. I think any way to promote more oxygen by more surface agitation will be good for all our fish. I'm thinking we have two with ich and one of something else but treatment may all be the same until we can get a better idea. :-?


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm thinking of starting with meds tomorrow. But I'm not sure if I should leave the temp up or not. If I do have some type of parasite the heat should help also shouldn't it. 
And really looking at the fish there are more with it now. But its not really white its more silverish. It's very strange looking.
Also I've noticed some discoloration in their skin, its like the pigments are separating. Has a rough look to it. One more thing that I've noticed is some seem like their talking or something their mouths just keep moving.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Suspect the talking may be more related to a struggle to get oxygen rather than communicate.  With that in mind I might go for lowering the temp just a bit or adding more water movement or airstones, etc. to get them more air in the water. Higher temp water holds less oxygen. Possible gill damage is the cause of gasping? Recommend treating ASAP as it can go from bad to deadly pretty quick. My ich situation seems to be come and go at the moment. One of the problems with ich is it often comes in with new fish and I'm not quite sure how the new fish behave when they are feeling normal. The tetra dither fish are suposed to be sensitive to the malachite green but they are out and doing their normal mindless thing. The new rainbow cichlids seems to be a bit different than other cichlids I have kept but what is normal? At first they would eat nothing I fed but I got past that. Now they seem to alternate between hidning under and in a log and being out and about pecking around for food. The green dye in the water really puts them out of sight though. I don't like that much as there is no way to tell if they are being stressed too much by the med if they are hiding. They do seem to have a timetable and come out at chow time so I can have a look at them. :wink:


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

Now I used Wardley essentials ick away which is a malachite green product but my water didnt stay blue very long. it doesnt seem blue at all today. I have 2 filters running and took the carbon out of both so I dont know why the water wouldnt still be bluish. 
I thought that the "talking" might have to do with oxygen levels so I turned the temp down last night and added another air bubbler. They seem pretty good now.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I don't think the color has too much to do with the work the med does. Just gets diluted in all the tank water. I only see the slight color change when I view it from the end of the tank. Might read and head the instructions on the med as to whether they recommend a water change and at what point. My says it doesn't build up but recommends 50 per cent change after twenty hours. I'm on the second cycle of three treatments three days apart. I've fought ich several times and it has always been a bit of a hit and miss but with the net information, I know I have a much better understanding of why I'm doing what I'm doing. Lots of misinformation there as well so we have to sort what we think is correct.


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

The meds recommended a 50% water change 24 hrs after, so I did that last night. I've noticed more flashing in my tank. i figured I'm gonna does the 3 times for ich see what happens and if theres still no improvement just see if I can find some other parasite meds that might work. Without actually knowing what parasite it is it makes this a little harder but hopefully it might be ich and I just think the spots look like their in the same places. It's a big tank and small fish about 1 1/2 inches, and I also have 15 zebras so its very possible that I wasn't even checking the same fish. They could have just been similar spots so I thought they were the same. I guess I'm just hoping for the best. The discoloration of my fish is starting to worry me a bit, I'm not sure what that could be from. I've been looking around with no luck so far.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm also using the Wardley's and I am not too impressed. More depressed. It's cheap for fish med and talks good but the results seem spotty. My ich moves around quickly, seems to go down for a while and be back even more six hours later. Doesn't seem to have any correlation with the use of med. What I read is often not what I'm seeing. In getting ready for new fish, I had moved four tetra dither fish into the new tank but was unable to catch the fifth so left him with the Africans. I finally caught him when he had lost his tail down to bare flesh and most of his fins as well as some scales. He was basicly floating and nearly dead when I moved him into the new tank. I got the six new fish the following day and added them. The tetra was surely the most stressed fish but not as bothered by the ich as the healthy tetras. His tail has nearly grown to normal and he shows little sign of any disease. Since theory says stressed fish catch ich first and tetras are sensitive to malachite green, he should be dead several days ago. Maybe I'm just pouring in green Kool-aid??? I know my fish now hate me and dive for cover till I leave.


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

Ok I have some new pics. Some of the discoloration, some of the red gills, and some of the white spots that are still there but still not very noticeable.

Discoloration on the heads

























Red Gills & spots


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

i would assume the red gills is the ick attacking the gills.....mine seemed like it was going away and i had a 36 hour shift...came back and muiltible fish had it so i broke down and bought some meds....the expert recomended quICK meds....i added it and he said leave it for 2 days and then change the water...he is a really cool guy.....

so i will say...i heated it to 83 and i did 10 gallon water changes on my 35 everyday and that was working..also added salt but he said marine salt would be better than regular aquarium salt.....and that was working it seemed...until i missed that one day of cleaning....

i will update about the meds soon...


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

At this point I would call my Wardley's a bust. I still have one more treatment as I have done the second 50% water change but the effect so far is not good. I have five tetras and six 1-11/2 inch rainbow cichlids in a seventy. At feeding this morning only four tetras, no rainbow came out to eat. At noon I can see no fish. There is a large hollowed out log where they must be hiding. This morning all the tetra I saw had several spots. The water change did not bring them out.


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

that wardley's doesnt seem to work very well does it? I'm doing my 2nd treatment with it today but I also treated with the jungle tablets for parasites. I put them in the tank yesterday and it says to do a 50% WC 48 hours after so I figured if I do the Wardley's today that will work out good because I have to do a WC 24 hours after that. I hope I dont over medicate but I've seen a few people on here say they've treated with the jungle tablets while using another parasite med. so hopefully it will be good. I've got tons of extra agitation going on in the tank to, I want to make sure they have plenty of oxygen.
Hopefully one of us will have some good news about something working since were all have the same situation right now (well with the exception that mine might not actually be ich.)
A question for you, dont know if you'd actually know the answer but figured I'd ask. Do you know if its possible that I've had this parasite in my tank for a little while but they didn't start attacking until I added the new Zebras? I dont know if it can happen like that I know they need a host to stay alive but I'm just wondering if maybe it just wasnt that noticeable. The reason I ask that is when I first got the Zebras they looked fine (I know it can take some time to show up) after I started noticing the spots I actually contacted the guy who I bought them from because he had mpanga fry & a pleco in the tank with them, but he told me that he's been watching them very closely and hasnt seen anything on any of them, I know he could be lying but I doubt it.
Sorry for writing so much this time just trying to figure things out.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Generally speaking it is NOT a good idea to mix medications.

Kaitlin: I answered your PM.
This thread just got a little too confusing to answer here with the different tanks, fish and people involved. 
 
Robin


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I've been thinking of starting a seperate topic to ask how business folks handle ich. I'm wavering whether that is a good topic to open. There may be some folks who would not want that discussed openly. Don't know since I don't currently have any friends in the business that I talk to frequently enough to ask. It would be nice to have some insight from folks who fight this battle frequently like dealers must have to do. As to whether you might have had ich in the tank for some time without noticing it until you added the zebra I can only hazard a guessimate answer. What I read/know says probably not for long if you are watching closely. As a simple lifeform, it has to do what it does when time and temperature say. They can't wait for a host and attack at will. Simple matter of the host being close enough to attach or they die is my thinking. Once they start feeding, they will grow to the noticeable size and should be spotted. I don't think they exist in a tank without quickly becoming a problem. Open to other thinking on that, though. What makes me wonder about what they do in the trade is your comment about the fellow not thinking he had ich. I also got the same reaction when I mentioned it at the shop where I bought my fish. I then went to the shop and spotted what I would call ich in several tanks. I should think ich would be ever present in a mobile, changing daily, stock, so what do they do to keep it from killing everything?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> I don't think they exist in a tank without quickly becoming a problem. Open to other thinking on that, though.


I think they can exist for awhile without being noticed or becoming a problem--which is NOT to say that I believe Ich is always present in every tank.

Just my opinion but here's what I think:

Ich only spends about a third of its life cycle on the fish as a trophont where you can see it. The rest of it's life stages it is in the tank itself, either on the gravel or free swimming. If you were to do frequent LARGE water changes and gravel siphoning then you could conceivably remove enough of the parasites to keep their numbers down. At least for awhile. . .

Robin


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I can follow that reasoning to a point. I'm certain most folks don't spend as much time with their fish as I do. They have to work.  I can see that might lead to having a low level infestation that was not noticed. How long it could go without getting out of control would have to depend on lots of things like how and what type decor one has. No way I can do a decent job of getting them out of the woodwork and such in my current tank. Right now I can't even find my fish when they don't want me to see them.  Ich can move so fast, it amazes me. For giggles and grins as well as study, I have made copies of a fish shape and ID'd several fish to follow the ich and find it can go from four dots to more than I can count on a fish in a single afternoon. With my treatment, I find it can disappear and return just as quickly. Sometimes it's almost as if they were trading sweaters! Never really gotten bad yet though. No secondary infections showing.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Just as a second thought on Ich it occured to me to wonder about the theory that it cannot live long without a host fish. Would be interesting to empty an ich tank of fish, leave it empty of fish for several days and then put a known ich-free fish in to see what's there. May have been done in studies but it would be interesting to do with the current form of ich. I'm sure it is making changes to it's lifesyle as we go along. Too bad we don't all have equipment and knowledge to go deeper into these things. Since we havn't found what all the different bacteria,etc. in the human colon does, it will be some time before we understand fish. :roll: :lol:


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

yeah im really suprized there isnt much known about ich...


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

I have a lot of rock work in my tank before my outbreak a lot of them did hide a lot but now they out in the open more, if that makes sense. At least it wasn't fatal to my fish that I mixed meds. I should have waited until I was finished with the one treatment to start the next. 
I had been lucky up until now I hadn't dealt with any kind of diseases or anything so I just wanted to fix the problem instead of waiting it out to see if the first treatment was going to work. 
My plan is to do a 50% WC today and take out all my rock work so that I can get a GOOD cleaning and hopefully get a lot of it out of the tank.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Mine are hiding so much that I can't really see that some have it still. I can only see them under the log as dark shadows. By their movements, they are doing lots of flashing and banging around, though. Will be starting on the salt and high temp today as there seems no progress with the Wardley's med.


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

it is kind of weird how out in the open they are, usually when my daughter goes by the tank they go toward the back and try and hide but not right now their not, they come closer to the front. They actually seem happier then they have been in awhile which is a good sign I think.. Sounds like it right?  I guess I'll find out soon if the spots start going away, I've been trying to look and see if there still there really bad but everytime I go toward the tank they all swarm together so I cant find the ones I'm looking for lol. 
i know one thing while I was at work yesterday my female Greshakei beat up my male Kenyi. I came home and he has a pretty good spot on his head that looks like she bit him. I was worried when I first seen it because its pretty big and white with some black at the bottom then I seen the Greshakei's lips and they were all black which I've seen in the past when I've had 2 of them fighting. 
Mine are all Juvie's to, their all under 2" except there are 2 that are close to 3". Another reason why it's harder for me to find the Zebra's with the spots is I have 17 of them right now. From 1 to 2 inches. I got 15 for $10 so I figured I get them then separate them out as they get bigger and sell the ones I dont need. I was actually going to sell the smaller 6 straight up but then noticed the spots so that stopped me.


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

i let quICK cure set for 2 days as instructed...and just did about a 25 - 35% water change, really cleaned the bottom rocks good and added more treat ment.....the only fish i still see with spots is my jack dempsey who gets picked on alot and im assuming he is stressed making it easier for him to get sick. i have a 55 gallon to replace my 35 and i found a nice 75 to buy also...i just need a stand for my 55 wich i might get today.....

but just to say what i did again.....

first started with heat and salt....vacuumed really good everyday and about a 35% water change....seemed to be working really good until i had a 36 hour shift and had to skip a day.

started the quICK cure which also seems to be really doing good...so far let the treatment set for 2 days...just did a water change and good vacuum and added more meds....


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

Update: Well I have did the 3 treatments for Ich, plus my one treatment for the parasites that I shouldn't have did and it about completely cleared up. I have 1 maybe 2 fish that have just a few spots on them. So I dont know what exactly I should do now. Since the 3 treatments are finished but the spots arent completely gone can they still be destroyed by the meds that are in the tank still or do I need to do more meds again after so long? There is still flashing so I do know its still bothering them. 
Any ideas of what my next step would be, would be greatly appreciated. I'm so glad I have this site without you all I'd be lost. lol.


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

*Kaitlin1227*

If they still have spots then soon the ich will have free swimming parisites and "young" parisites in the gravel. I have not completely followed this thread so i am unsure on the three treatments you are refering to; but, you will have to conctinue some sort of treatment not only until all the white spots are gone, but 4 days after. This is becasue the life cycle of ich is estimated to be 3-4 days, so even if you fish look better there still can be some ich swiming around that the treatment (weather it be high tems and salt or meds) will kill.

Thanks,
Matt


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Glad to hear something seems to be knocking it back at least for now. I'm struggling to find the way still. One I am sure of is that you do need to continue as long as you have visible spotsand beyond. Whether continue with the current is best, I'm not sure. Maybe some of the more expert folks can give you more idea. My experience with the Wardley's was far less than desired. It seemed to hold it at bay but not kill it even after more than the recommended time and treatment. I am now fighting it with the heat and salt methods. Currently it seems better and the fish are out feeding and acting more normal. They still have lots of visible ich though. I'm gradually going up on temp and salt. I've maxed out my heaters on hand at 86F. I do have lots of water moving and evaporation is cooling it some. They are turned up to full stop and that's all I can get with a 150 and 50 watt heater. I've used 66 tablespoons of salt and used all I have on hand. That's quite a lot for seventy gallons. Should have thought they were pickled by now but they show no signs of distress and seem slightly better each time I add more salt. Seems my only option right now will be to continue heat and buy more salt. Good luck on your end.


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

i wouldnt add much more salt....there not marine fish lol...but im no expert...my fish seem to be doing better than ever....that got really bad....all signs of ick gone but they were just setting on the bottom of the water...did a few water changes and now im just leaving them alone lol...i think me messing with the tank every day was making them sick...they all have there color back and all seem to by back to normal!


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## Kaitlin1227 (Jun 3, 2009)

On my Ich meds it said to treat 3 times 3 days apart and I did that but its still not completely gone but I will not buy anymore Wardley's meds. I want to find something different that might work better than that. I've had my temp up to 82 since I first started having this problem so hopefully that wont hurt the fish with the heat set on that. I figured leaving the heat up might help with it to.


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

i thought quICK cure....but mine outbreak never really got that bad....


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I agree on no more Wardley's for ich. Seemed to hold it down but never cured it. I went over the dosage and past the time with treatments and finally gave up. I feel the time lost with using it was overall bad for my situation. I now have some hope of getting through this with heat and salt. I've added lights and heaters to get the temp up to 88F. I've been increasing the temp and adding salt since 1-22-10 and I'm now at 66 tablespoons in an estimated seventy gallons of water. I do see improvement now as all fish are eating again and only one rainbow cichlid is showing ich. That one is in terrible shape though. Allbody parts are half covered and much of the fins and tail are gone. I've seen no aggression unless the tetras are fin nipping when they are out of sight. I'm holding steady to see if it works.


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

if he is that far along i would consider getting him out of the tank....


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

If anybody is still following this trail of three guys fighting this battle, I wanted to post a final for me. For a background, I tried Wardley's Ichaway for about ten days and found it only held the disease from running rampant. It did not cure it on my fish. I do not recommend it. On 1-21-2010, I started raising my temperature and adding salt. By 1-26-2010 I had the temp to 88F and had added 66 Tablespoons of salt in my estimated seventy gallons of water. 1-27-2010 I added 10 tbls salt. I have kept the temp up to 88 as that is as high as I can get with heaters on hand and left the salt total at 76 tbls. It is working and at this point I see no ich. I do have some missing tail fin on two small cichlids but I feel that is from crowding in the hiding they were doing. I see no signs of fungus or other problems. The tetra which started out injured has totally regrown his tail to the point I can't id him from the others. I will continue the heat for a while longer and in a few days call it a success and start backing down to normal. Thanks to this site and the heat/salt I did not lose any fish. :thumb:


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Update-- Ich is back. Yesterday I had decided it was a success and changed out 6 gallons of water a jug at a time to avoid any abrupt temp changes and had gotten the temp back down to 82F. This morning I saw one rainbow cichlid appeared to not eat but was picking off the bottom. One did not come out to eat. Just checked and while I can't see any spots, I have one racing around madly banging into anything he can find and several have gone to hiding. BAH! :x


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

so you havent been doing alot of water changes?

i vacuumed the gravel everyday to get the ich in the egg stage


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Not any more than normal. Whether that would have done better is hard to say. I should have had them in quarantine in a smaller tank. With a 75 full of logs, rocks, and plants there really didn't seem to be any way I was going to get many of them by vac'ing. I see the wisdom of doing it but doubt that I could have done much in my case. Looking over the directions for the Wardley's and comparing it to the Quickcure, I find what may be the fault with the Wardley's. With the Wardley's one is directed to treat, change 50% water after 24 hrs and treat again after three days doing this three times. Seems there would be a good chance that the ich would always have some in the hardshell when the full strength treatment was there waiting to come back in the three days when the med was half strength or less. I'm thinking it might have been back in full force in the three day interval between dosing.


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## White Thunder (Jan 15, 2010)

yeah its actully looking like im getting it in my 55 now....im going to wait another day before i do anything lol..i hope not...


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