# C.leptosoma Mpulungu 'blue flash' Help sex juveniles



## e-cichlid (Sep 1, 2013)

Hi, I got some young Cyps yesterday, and I need some help identifying females. There are 23 in total, I hope there is a decent ratio of females to males, can anyone help?


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## FedEXguy (Feb 24, 2005)

link fixed: 




You're just going to have to wait on sexing them. Males will get color, females pretty much won't, though they'll likely have faint colors in the fins. After a few males start coloring and flirting, you'll probably have some of the fish get pushed to the edges of the group, but not necessarily get beat up. Those are likely sub-dom males. They'll get some color eventually, too.


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## e-cichlid (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks for fixing the link!
Should I leave them in a group, or remove excess males until I have a breeding school of with the correct ratio of males to females?
They are in a 3ft grow-out tank, the breeders will be moved to a 4ft species tank as soon as I know what I'm doing!


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## FedEXguy (Feb 24, 2005)

What's in the other tank? If it's not heavily decorated/populated, I'd just put them all in there and only remove males if you start getting a really off ratio. My group is about 50/50, maybe 60/40 male-heavy, and constantly breeding.


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## e-cichlid (Sep 1, 2013)

So I shouldn't worry about the m:f ratio, and leave them be?
The 4ft is currently occupied by extremely dangerous predators, soon to be moved to a 6ft.
As soon as this is done, the cyps get the 4ft. 
But once they are in the 4ft, I will not easily be able to catch out excess males if that's necessary.
Will they be able to breed, and increase the size of the shoal if I leave them to do their own thing?


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## FedEXguy (Feb 24, 2005)

If they are the only thing in the tank, you probably don't have to worry about a thing. As long as there's some rockwork for the ladies to spit the fry in, and maybe escape to if they're tired of being bugged, it should be fine. The extra males would only really be a problem if, say, of your 23, you end up with 18+ males. More-so from tiring out the females than from damaging each other, I would think. The babies will make their own shoal, so I've heard, and eventually join shoals with the adults after getting some size. In my community setup, I don't see this, because they always get eaten. If you want some other fish in the tank, there's the risk some of your fry will get eaten, but if you stock with non-predatory fish like some sand-sifters or shellies in a shell-bed away from the rocks, more of the fry should make it.

Edit to add: Your 40 gallon is on the small end for a cyp shoal, so you'll probably want to regulate how many fry you let reach adulthood or eventually get a bigger tank. Cyps LOOOVE to dart around really fast.


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## e-cichlid (Sep 1, 2013)

I eventually want to house them in a 6ft that's deeper than normal, I will take my time about finding a used one.
They should be okay in the 4ft while I search, though.
If I get lucky soon, I was considering a trio of Enantiopus to go along with the cyps. Is that a bad idea? 
I really don't mind a cyprichromis species only tank, I was thinking that bottom dwellers can also feed on food that the cyps missed, to reduce the amount of substrate vacuuming I will need to do.(btw I hate catfish!)
At any rate, Enantiopus is next on my wishlist. If they are not compatible with cyps, they will get their own tank!


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## FedEXguy (Feb 24, 2005)

Anything I've ever seen says the enants and cyps should be just fine together.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

e-cichlid said:


> I eventually want to house them in a 6ft that's deeper than normal, I will take my time about finding a used one.
> They should be okay in the 4ft while I search, though.
> If I get lucky soon, I was considering a trio of Enantiopus to go along with the cyps. Is that a bad idea?
> I really don't mind a cyprichromis species only tank, I was thinking that bottom dwellers can also feed on food that the cyps missed, to reduce the amount of substrate vacuuming I will need to do.(btw I hate catfish!)
> At any rate, Enantiopus is next on my wishlist. If they are not compatible with cyps, they will get their own tank!


Enants will be fine with them especially in a six foot tank. I wouldn't worry to much about ratios unless you are only concerned with getting lots of fry. In my experience cyps do just as well in reverse trios. If you shine a flashlight on the fish the males will show some reflective scales.


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## e-cichlid (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks for the tip, the fish are asleep now, I will try the flashlight tomorrow and see what happens.
I am concerned about getting lots of fry, because cyps are not available locally, mine were imported.
I just don't any precious females getting unduly harassed, so I will provide some rocky cover for them.
If enantiopus eat cyp fry, they will not be housed together! Do they>


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Yes, and they can eat their own fry, same as the cyps.


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## e-cichlid (Sep 1, 2013)

Okay, so cyps on their own, with lots of hiding places for females and fry. Are well-fed cyps inclined to cannibalize their fry?

I tried the flashlight a few minutes ago. It works. 
I am quite disappointed because there seems to be at least 16 to 17 males.
Now what?


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

All of the cyps I have ever kept have ate their own fry. Don't worry about the ratio so much, just strip the females when they are holding and raise the fry up in a seperate tank until they are big enough to go back in the main tank.


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## e-cichlid (Sep 1, 2013)

noddy said:


> All of the cyps I have ever kept have ate their own fry. Don't worry about the ratio so much, just strip the females when they are holding and raise the fry up in a seperate tank until they are big enough to go back in the main tank.


Nervous about stripping delicate-looking little female cyps!


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

First- don't rely only on the flashlight trick to determine sex. Give them some more time. Next- a cyp-only tank has the highest chance of raising fry. My breeders didn't eat many fry that I saw, but when kept in with shellies, gobies, xenos, etc- not a single cyp fry survived. So, yes- keep it a species tank for maximum fry survival.

Stripping isn't so hard- and in my experience is less stressful to mouthbrooders than isolation. The hardest part is netting them, so keep that in mind when designing your aquascape. Structure is very helpful for providing cover to fry and females, but of course that makes them harder to net. Consider large, lightweight pieces for decoration, ones that are easy to pull out when trying to catch a fish.

The next bit of good news is that my cyps (wild and tank raised) tend to breed in sync. So, I would have most of the females holding at the same time- I was able to tear the tank apart and strip several females at once. Typically, 15-20 days is the best window for stripping.

Oh- last piece of advice- feed fry food in the adult tank once females are holding. My best breeders figured out how to siphon in the tiny particles (I used golden pearl and decapsulated brine shrimp eggs) into their buccal cavities. That means that the fry started eating while still in her mouth, and she got some nutrition during her gestation.

Here's a video of one of my stripping techniques:


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## e-cichlid (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks for the video! Given me some more confidence. I will definitely prefer stripping females to isolating them.

The fact that females tend to carry at the same time is very interesting. I recall reading somewhere about a study done (I think Japanese) where the lunar cycle had something to do with triggering spawning in cyprichromis species.

I know that Aulonocara fry feed in their mother's buccal cavity, I've seen them jostle for position to be in front where they can peep out of her mouth!






I may have been a bit paranoid about having too few females?
I can't wait to know for sure how many I have!


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Triscuit is right about the flashlight trick, it's not 100% accurate and you do have to know what you'r looking for. Until they grow up it's just gues work.
I personally prefer my cyp groups to be very heavy male balanced. The males always keep themselves occupied with each other and the females that you do have will always produce fry. You have a great sized group anyway.
I just read your your ealier post where you said, "I eventually want to house them in a 6ft that's deeper than normal, I will take my time about finding a used one". I think that's a great idea. I keep my cyps in a 6' 210g tank that is 29" tall, the tank was bought so that I would always be able to keep cyps and featherfins or sandsifters together.


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## e-cichlid (Sep 1, 2013)

noddy said:


> Triscuit is right about the flashlight trick, it's not 100% accurate and you do have to know what you'r looking for. Until they grow up it's just gues work.
> I personally prefer my cyp groups to be very heavy male balanced. The males always keep themselves occupied with each other and the females that you do have will always produce fry. You have a great sized group anyway.
> I just read your your ealier post where you said, "I eventually want to house them in a 6ft that's deeper than normal, I will take my time about finding a used one". I think that's a great idea. I keep my cyps in a 6' 210g tank that is 29" tall, the tank was bought so that I would always be able to keep cyps and featherfins or sandsifters together.


So I'm gathering that it's okay to have more males than females? 
And that I have a good chance of establishing a breeding shoal? 
In a 6ft tank,I can keep enantiopus with them, and still produce fry of both species, as long as I strip females?
I'm loving this!


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

e-cichlid said:


> noddy said:
> 
> 
> > Triscuit is right about the flashlight trick, it's not 100% accurate and you do have to know what you'r looking for. Until they grow up it's just gues work.
> ...


Absolutely, I have Kilesa, Cyp Micro, Paracyps and O.Nasuta in my 210g.
All fish spawn and I have added juvies from all groups back into the tank.
:thumb:


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## e-cichlid (Sep 1, 2013)

So far, so good.
Enantiopus Melanogenys Karilani & Enantiopus Melanogenys Makola are the two variants that are available, F1, special import.
I can only afford 5 specimens, they will be about 2 inches long, and very expensive.I'm leaning towards the Karilani. Is this a good choice?


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## Barbella (May 19, 2016)

As a recommendation ,I am adding twelve blue flash cyps to my 55,gallon black calvus tank.The male calvus are about 5 1/2 inches, and I have three.I also have five 2 1/2 in frontosa,which I am trying to sell.The cyps are two inches,will they be ok?


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