# the hunt for the red bulus



## danumber1stunnar

anybody here know where to buy petrochromis bulu point fry?


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## geoff_tropheus

Ask this again in about 2 years.

There's only 3 people I know that have males and females, and only one of them has a colony.

Very difficult to breed, highly agressive.

I'm sorry but most likely you'll not find any.


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## danumber1stunnar

yeah i figured that i will order me some wild caughts eventually


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## NorthShore

danumber1stunnar said:


> yeah i figured that i will order me some wild caughts eventually


My understanding is that they exist in waters that are protected by conservaton efforts as well as by crocs! I don't think you can get wild caughts legitimately.


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## dar

yup , they are consider "rare" right now let alone --- might be put in the endangered species list.


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## geoff_tropheus

They can still be had. You got to find a personal diver to go and collect them.

They are solitaire animals and in deep water very expensive to go and collect. This endeavor requires lots of time and lots of patience that most do not have anymore.

Their true locations are a mystery, and highly rumored to be in Tanzanian Wildlife parks that are very protected or in locations that require serious bribe money to travel near or enter.


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## tank

I was going to sell some of my fry but my big male went nuts and killed my females  . Now I have to start all over.
If you are interested bluechip will have some more longola petro fry soon :wink: .


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## dar

i wish i could get myhand on some red bulus , but i know a the store that has a colony of them ... it's great and eletrifying just to see them eat and swim. They are so energetic!! their vibrant red color is amazing too. I'm waiting for the fry's but it's going to be a very long wait and a costly one too.


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## geoff_tropheus

Tank how are your REd Fins? Still making fry?

Did you actually get your Bulu's to have fry?


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## IrkedCitizen

According to this poster's pictures he has red Bulu Point petros. You might want to ask him where he got his? Even though he is in Austria.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=151557&sid=46c0d94f64fc83a81cad5250f6ba017a


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## tank

geoff_tropheus said:


> Tank how are your REd Fins? Still making fry?
> 
> Did you actually get your Bulu's to have fry?


My longola are doing great. And yes they put out plenty of fry.
Yes the Bulu's did spawn and I have fry. But they are not for sale.


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## dar

whoa, you got a bulu . You're one of the lucky few


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## geoff_tropheus

What tank size did you have them in when they spawned?

The colony here in Houston, is in a 240 gallon 8-footer and they hold eggs but have never produced viable fry yet.

Glad to hear more than one person is having luck at getting them to breed.

Did I understand correctly when you said your male went crazy and killed the females? Or were you talking about your Longolas?


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## flynn

If I may ask this uneducated question... if they spawn but just don't hold to term, and they are so rare, worth so much and are so hard to find... why don't you just strip them after a few days and tumble the eggs ???    
I know that's what they have to do with some of the Frontosas blue variants...


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## geoff_tropheus

My thoughts exactly.

I am not sure why he does what he does, I do know that the person with the Colony is a busy guy, and believe me more than one person has suggested to him that same thing. Not an uneducated statement whatsoever.


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## flynn

Wow ! Busy man ? Would gladly drive down to Texas to strip them for him if I could just come back with a few eggs !!! (I'm sure this has also been suggested a few times !  )


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## Longstocking

I asked Konings about them last Saturday.

He said... that he has never seen one in the wild ( the picture in his book was taken by someone else ) . He thinks they are found FAR south of bulu point and at 90 feet or so ( The Bulu Point location is WRONG ) . If you know anything about diving you would know you can't spend a long time at 90 feet. Basically... you have about 20 min to go down to depth and catch the buggers ! Deep diving is dangerous... especially working with nets.

I think I've decided that in about 2-3 years I'm going to take 2 weeks and go looking for these fish  Any divers want to join me ? :wink:


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## delock

Longstocking said:


> I asked Konings about them last Saturday.
> 
> He said... that he has never seen one in the wild ( the picture in his book was taken by someone else ) . He thinks they are found FAR south of bulu point and at 90 feet or so ( The Bulu Point location is WRONG ) . If you know anything about diving you would know you can't spend a long time at 90 feet. Basically... you have about 20 min to go down to depth and catch the buggers ! Deep diving is dangerous... especially working with nets.
> 
> I think I've decided that in about 2-3 years I'm going to take 2 weeks and go looking for these fish  Any divers want to join me ? :wink:


2-3 years? I will go.....


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## IrkedCitizen

I'm down. I'd like to pick up a couple other colonies.


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## danumber1stunnar

geoff_tropheus said:


> They can still be had. You got to find a personal diver to go and collect them.
> 
> They are solitaire animals and in deep water very expensive to go and collect. This endeavor requires lots of time and lots of patience that most do not have anymore.
> 
> Their true locations are a mystery, and highly rumored to be in Tanzanian Wildlife parks that are very protected or in locations that require serious bribe money to travel near or enter.


they were on a list in which a local breeder i buy from ordered from in a africa order they were going for 150 each landed and i really did not want to invest that much money so i ordered 12 wc black comps. and figured i would try to buy some fry now i am thinking i should have bought i also saw them on african cichlids aquaculture for 60 a piece plus all import fees freight broker etc i even send them a picture of one to mkae sure we were talking about the same fish only thing is that you have to order at least 10 boxes of fish from them


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## dar

make sure it's the bulu and not the other type of red petro bulu, but if however if you do buy it 10 boxes of them ( which i don't think there will be 10 boxed of red bulus) there are some ppl here , me included that would love to buy it from you.


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## danumber1stunnar

dar said:


> make sure it's the bulu and not the other type of red petro bulu, but if however if you do buy it 10 boxes of them ( which i don't think there will be 10 boxed of red bulus) there are some ppl here , me included that would love to buy it from you.


i am thinking about it 10 boxes will be 70-80 of them only thing you cant get at 1 box out of african for anything less than $100 i will let everyone know if i decide to i send them a picture from here on their profile


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## fishboy11

To do this would take a ton of $$$, time, several large tanks, and obtaining your importing license, which can take months. You would need at least 30 large 6'+ tanks for that many petros.


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## danumber1stunnar

fishboy11 said:


> To do this would take a ton of $$$, time, several large tanks, and obtaining your importing license, which can take months. You would need at least 30 large 6'+ tanks for that many petros.


i know some people with import license and i would not mind buying some more 6ft tanks for them considering the profit that would be made off of that many


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## geoff_tropheus

I also think the price is more than $100 pe box using Brittish Airways with brokerage and customs fees.

Which Airport in LA can you get Brittish Airways Cargo service? Would Houston be a problem for you?

We would need to make sure that Michelle would send a picutre of the fish she has. I dont think she has 10 boxes of Red Bulu's, but if she had a box or two, it would be worth importing them.

I know several people here in Houston that would want Tropheus as well as other Tangs to get the 10 box minimum order filled.

If you serious about this let me know.

Geoff


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## IrkedCitizen

Yeah I'd like a colony of tropheus or two. I would just need to know prices to see if I could swing it.


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## dar

the price would be a good thing to know, just don't make it too expensive


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## danumber1stunnar

i sent them a email today to see what they do have i would not mind getting some tropheus too


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## Longstocking

OK start saving guys  We need 8 in the group to go with Toby... which is the only way I would ever want to go. With air flight included it's going to run about 4-5 grand.


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## delock

Add me to the list also....


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## delock

Plus if i'm not mistaking,

British Airways flight from there to Houston is not bad and quick...


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## geoff_tropheus

Toby only requires 8 boxes? That's better than Michelle's 10 box minimum.

I am not sure of Toby's prices, but Michelle's prices for Zambian Tropheus are really cheap.

The box fee's for shipping on British Airways, I think run like $150 per box, it might even be less like $100. Tropheus are packed 40-60 per box from Michelle, not sure what they are packed from Toby. So that would only be some $2-4 per fish added cost on top of their purchase price.

The petros come depending on size, some 10-20 per box, expect $15-20 per fish over its purchase price for shipping.

I'm in for Bulu Point. Though, I think Sarah's idea of going there to get them ourselves would be more fun. 

I know three people in the Houston area with Licensing that I will start to ask if they would be willing to broker this. If you can check with your contact person in Louisiana, I would not have a problem driving to New Orleans for pickup. Does British Airways Cargo have a stop there?

Sarah, do you have a license or someone close to you has one? If we go in together on 8 boxes, or even 10 from Michelle, if you imported them in Maryland, would you then re-box them and send them our way?


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## Longstocking

lol... no Toby requires 8 people min. on a trip to the lake.... he won't do it for less than that. 100 dollars a day that is all inclusive. Takes 2-3 days to get to the lake.

I do have a very good friend with a liscence that would do this for me. They could get shipped into BWI as it is an import hub and I live about 10 min from the airport.

I don't mean to be a bummer when I say this... but I have seen them on lists as well... and well... they never really had them. I'd make sure they really have them and you won't be waiting years for them.

Let me know if I can be of any help....


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## geoff_tropheus

Oh so when you were saying 4-5 grand you meant per person for fees, travel, and gear?


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## Longstocking

Yes...but your gear isn't payed for you need to bring that. Air for your tanks is payed for though.

I've got me and my significant other.... now I need 6 more people !


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## delock

4-5 grand? damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

"goes over to couch and start digging"


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## NorthShore

A friend of mine's wife is a travel agent. 2K cdn from here to Lusaka, return. Already have an open invitation from a collector who has some interesting plans for the next year or so. I'm trying to make this work so I can go but I also have my teenage son to think of. :?


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## Longstocking

NorthShore you might want to question your friend. Toby is the ONLY person on the lake that can fill your tanks. Unless you know hooka... which I know nothing about.


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## NorthShore

Sarah, pm sent.


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## delock

Longstocking,

How would we transport the fish back?


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## Longstocking

Toby can ship them back.... at least that's what I've been told.

NS... didn't get the pm.


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## NorthShore

Sarah, pm sent again.


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## danumber1stunnar

still waiting for email to be returned i am selling my wc mpimbwes tommorow


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## Brichardiman

Hi guys!

I know a guy who will collect the reds now in september

Best regards


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## flynn

Go, go, go ! Not in this time, but sure would like to see you bring boxes full of those babies this side of the ocean ! And waiting to see your pics ! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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## prov356

> sure would like to see you bring boxes full of those babies this side of the ocean !


That's right, we're all counting on you guys now to flood the continent with bulu's. :thumb:


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## geoff_tropheus

:lol:


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## geoff_tropheus

I got a email from Michelle last night. She said the pricelist was attached, but for some reason it was not. I should get one in the next few days.

She did however tell me, that the minimum order is 10 boxes and it comes with a 30% discount of her list price. She said 15 or more boxes come with a 40% discount.

I am working now on getting my people here in Houston to work with me on importing.

This will be a onetime deal. It will be for the hobbyist, not the business person. You will pay for your fish and the shipping it costs to get them to Houston. If you can make it to you Houston local pickup is just great.

The fish will then be re-bagged, and re-boxed to you at your cost. You pay shipping, bagging and boxing fees. Whatever it cost me in bags, rubber bands, bag buddies, O2, and Styrofoam boxes you will pay for. You will pay 100% whatever shipping you want for OVERNIGHT delivery because I cannot ship air cargo.

If I cannot find a licensed person to do this or meet this agreement, then I'll get the wildlife permit and license myself. This takes about a year, so it might be next summer before we can actually do this.

Michelle said that Congo fish are pretty much off limits for the next year, and TZ fish are becoming extremely hard to get because of government regulations and payments always changing.

It's not about the money; itâ€™s about relationships with people.

If youâ€™re serious about this, let me know.

Geoff


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## geoff_tropheus

Got the pricelist from Michelle.

Good news and bad news.

Good news is the list has all the fish she can get at anytime no problems.

Bad news is no Bulu Point.

She does take special orders, and she will see what she can do to get Divers to go get these fish. But, like Mark said, they are short on good divers, and this might take a lot of time.

On the list is everything from Featherfins, Petros, Tropheus, Xenos, Calvus, all the like.


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## IrkedCitizen

Can I see said list? Why can't you ship air cargo? My buddy here has accounts with 12 different airlines. So I think he could get stuff sent to him from you.


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## geoff_tropheus

I have no problem sending you the list if you PM me your email.

I have some conditions, that you have to agree too first.

Check your PM

I do not have any accounts with airlines for air cargo. In order to get those accounts you have to have proof of legitimate business to be shipping live fish. Some air carriers take this very serious, others just need the temporary permit for business operation from your city government.


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## geoff_tropheus

I want to make some points clear on this.

This order's purpose is to get Petrochromis Bulu Point, as many boxes, then complete the 10 box minimum order as needed.

I am not looking for people to fill 10 boxes of Tropheus.


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## dar

Geoff when you get the news on the bulus like if they ever find and catch them , can you send me a pm , cause i would love to buy like some of this brilliant fish.


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## dar

you know what would be cool, if we could change the name of this thread to "the hunt for the red bulus " lol


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## Derrote

Hi. I don``t believe that anyone at the moment can catch a lot of bulu point. IÂ´m the happy owner of 4/9 of that beautiful Petrochromis. I have to wait 10 years to get some of them, at the moment someone can catch 2 or 3 of them, but never never 10 boxes!!! A friend Arthur from danmark are at the moment on the Lake with Toby, they will try to get some of them, we will see what happens!!! Also here in Germany some importeurs say they can get them, but when you order some they find no way to get them!!!


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## Longstocking

That is what I've been told as well Derrote. Thanks for chiming in !

You are the only person that I know of that has them in that large of group. Any chance you have fry and we can import them from you? I have a friend with all the importation liscences... just need someone that actually has these fish.


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## Derrote

That are some of my juveniles, with 25 cm now. In the last 3 years i had so about 90 juveniles from 1 male and 1 females, with 3 spawnings, with over 30 juveniles each spawning. Then the male killed the female. For that 2 reds i have wait a lot of time!!!


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## geoff_tropheus

Hi Derrote,

A friend of mine had a sinlge spawn of Petrochromis Famula Chimba and it was 42 fish that he stripped from her. Petrochromis can have some very large spawns, and I am very glad that you have had this success with Bulu Point.

I would love to get some red bulu point fry from you as well.

In my search for the red bulu point, I have ran across many people that say they know where they are, they know how to get them, they have a supply of them, but when it comes time to actually do the deed, always there is a problem of somekind.

I too have a importer friend here in Houston that has a colony. His colony is in a 8ft tank 240 gallons, but has now been parred down to 1 male and 4 or 5 females. All the other fish are in their own seperate tanks for bad behavoir or recovery. I believe he has 11 fish total.

Please keep us informned anytime you have fry for shipment or trade.

Take care,

Geoff


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## geoff_tropheus

I wanted to share some updated information.

Each box comes with a $25 packaging fee from African Cichlids Aquaculture.
Each box transportation fees, customs, and all brokerage to get them to land in the US is $200 on Delta Airlines from Lusaka, Zambia to Johanesberg, South Africa, and then direct to a major US International Hub such as Houston, Atlanta, Baltimore, etc..

Once the boxes land, there is a US customs fee for the total declared value of the shipment. This is estimated at $250 per $7,000 US declared value.

The red bulu point are being asked by everyone in the world market. To get them may take exactly what Derrote has said, 1-10 years.

Sarah, I'll start getting my diving qualifications. It may have to end up on a trip of your own to go get them.

For those of you that I have sent the price list, understand those are the fish that can be gotten at anytime, and their price may change when the actual purchase takes place. That list is for general idea on what's availible and the associated costs per fish, and how they are boxed.

The red bulu will be 1-20 per box depending on quanitiy and size.

Take care,

Geoff


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## Longstocking

Geoff... like I said I just don't think it's possible to find these fish in large numbers...

That's why I came to my conclusion after talk to Kongings that I would go and catch the dang things myself. I've done plenty of "deep" dives to 80-100 feet and I have no issues with it. I won't go past 130 though... on just air as I don't think they have other blends of gases on the lake.

I've wanted to go the lake for a while. That's the reason I got certified. If I find the dang petros it will just be a bonus.


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## IrkedCitizen

Longstocking said:


> I've done plenty of "deep" dives to 80-100 feet and I have no issues with it.


It's a different story though with crocs and hippos in the water! :lol:


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## Longstocking

lol.... I've dove with sharks and not in a cage. I'm not concerned in the least bit. If I was snorkeling.... I would be concerned.

At those depths there will be very few crocs or hippos.


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## IrkedCitizen

But you have to come up some time. Lol.

I could dive with sharks but the thought of getting ripped apart by some crocs doesn't sound too exciting.


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## lloyd

while y'all searching for rare reds, anyone find a source for the "plain old" (lol) bulu point? could you pm me for leads, if any. with thanks.


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## dar

yeah that really does sound scary, the crocs can get as big as 4 or 5 meters, that's roughly about 13 - 15 feet. :| but i have a question if we buy it in a group can we split up the shipping price and all the fees.

Another question arise is that if you catch them yourself and ship it over to the U.S , how much would it cost to do so, and do you need a license?


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## Longstocking

You need someone on this side with a license. I have a very good friend  You still have to pay all the importation fees etc...


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## eklikewhoa

Hey Geoff, sending pm for that list!


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## fishonthebrain

Hey Sarah, im very interested in going to the lake as well. 2 years seems about right for us to. i would love a pm with any info you have.


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## danumber1stunnar

the breeder i buy my fish from added 8 2m 6f petrochromis red bulu points to the africa order that comes in on monday so i will be able to buy the fry that i want i have commited to buy the fry whenever they start breeding if thy are what they are supposed to be when they come in


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## eklikewhoa

Do keep us updated about those fry!

LA isn't far from us Houstonians so we could road trip out there to visit you guys :thumb:


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## danumber1stunnar

i am going to try to take some pictures and post them when they come in


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## A Vertigo Guy

what part of Louisiana you in? I dont know of any importers there except maybe Mike at 50 Fathoms...


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## danumber1stunnar

im in slidell the person i know is in mississippi about a 1 hour drive from my house and 50 fantoms is under new ownership they sold it a few months ago new owners ok cant remember his name i was hoping my friend bought it he was second in the line and the person that ended up buying it was having trouble getting the funds but he came throught i was hoping my friend bought it i would never have to woory about what petstore i would sell my fish to


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## A Vertigo Guy

Are these Bulus from ACA? B/c if they are, Michelle is going to be pissing off a lot of people.......


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## delock

A Vertigo Guy said:


> Are these Bulus from ACA? B/c if they are, Michelle is going to be pissing off a lot of people.......


I dont think they are from ACA.


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## A Vertigo Guy

Then in that case better make sure theyre the real McCoy! :-?


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## geoff_tropheus

like I said, there's a long line for waiting on getting them


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## Russ Utsler

I've heard rumors to rhe effect that they can be found nesting IN TREES in Gombe Stream National Park. This is the only explanation that makes any sense. Only the sp. reds from Mpimbwe are found in the lake itself.
Russ


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## delock

Russ Utsler said:


> I've heard rumors to rhe effect that they can be found nesting IN TREES in Gombe Stream National Park. This is the only explanation that makes any sense. Only the sp. reds from Mpimbwe are found in the lake itself.
> Russ


nice seeing you Russ


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## Longstocking

Makes sense to me as well Russ. Also why they are so hard to get... trees = shallow water= crocs !!!! Not to mention protected area = jail or death lol.

The only conflicting part of that is... the person that took the picture in Konings book said he took the picture at 90 feet or so... of course this same person said they were found at bulu point ?????? :lol: :lol: :lol: Of course I've never seen algae growing in a fresh water body of water at 90 feet :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ahhhhhhhhh the lake... can't wait to go and try and find them my dang self.


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## delock

Longstocking said:


> Makes sense to me as well Russ. Also why they are so hard to get... trees = shallow water= crocs !!!! Not to mention protected area = jail or death lol.
> 
> The only conflicting part of that is... the person that took the picture in Konings book said he took the picture at 90 feet or so... of course this same person said they were found at bulu point ?????? :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Ahhhhhhhhh the lake... can't wait to go and try and find them my dang self.


Maybe he took the picture 90 feet from the shore.

I have a question. Why would you keep a Show Bulu Point in a 20 gallon tank?


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## Longstocking

Who is keeping them in a 20 gallon? :x

Quranteen... maybe :?:

I think there are other sp. red in the lake. Konings told me the closest thing he found to the bulu points was located at Sibwesa.


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## delock

Longstocking said:


> Who is keeping them in a 20 gallon? :x
> 
> Quranteen... maybe :?:
> 
> I think there are other sp. red in the lake. Konings told me the closest thing he found to the bulu points was located at Sibwesa.


No to quranteen......

Alex's have one Trevassae, 2 bulu, one moshi and a red fin in thier own 20 gallon


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## Longstocking

I have known people to do this... but it was not a perminant housing. Just waiting for someone to take them off their hands. Usually 30 gallons or larger though... but these were full grown adults.


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## geoff_tropheus

Russ thanks so much for your comments here. Very glad to see you and thanks for that information. Of all the people, who would know that, you are one of them.

Deric, Alex does that to tease us. :lol: I think their 30 gallon breeders 36" long tanks, maybe 40's


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## eklikewhoa

I think he also does that to keep them from killing each other? but the teasing probably holds some truth.


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## delock

eklikewhoa said:


> I think he also does that to keep them from killing each other? but the teasing probably holds some truth.


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## Chip

For what it is worth, Petro do not come from streams. The Red Bulu never came from Bulu, but from a point between Sibwesa and Mabilibili rocks. My understanding is the surf is quite trecherous and cannot be approached by boat easily. The shore line in non existant and is made up of huge cliffs with vertical drops, so approach from land is also near impossible. I cannot verify this, but only share what I have been told. I have tried to finance a collection of these fish for some time now. I will certainly share any success we have in obtaining these fish. 
Furthermore, the reality of ever obtaining any large numbers in one collection is slim. I am in full support of Sarah's endeavor to see for herself!!!!!

chip

PS- Hello Russ- hope your well


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## tank

Six pages and no pix ! Here is one of my males. Horrible picture, looks much better in life.


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## NorthShore

Nice! How big is that fish?


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## delock

tank said:


> Six pages and no pix ! Here is one of my males. Horrible picture, looks much better in life.


wonderful pic...

Man, Chip and Russ in the same thread?


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## GEOST

> Wow, what an awesome fish!! For those of you on this forum who already own these reds, you are very fortunate indeed. :thumb:
> 
> I'm new to this forum but I have been trying to get some of these Petro Red Bulus for some time. My local fish provider says it is one of those mythical fish but I believe they are still out there in the lake (Sibwesa most likely). I guess these petros were named Bulu Points to hide the actual collection point(s).


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## A Vertigo Guy

Alex has them in 40 breeders.


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## Longstocking

They aren't located at Sibwesa ! Konings dove in that area and he found something similar but not the bulu points.

Knowing how fish evolve in this lake... most likely close to it though !


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## Petro_Arthur

Hi
I think it's time for a little note and picture.
As said I was in Mahale 4 days in September, and I found the Red. Before leaving we ask Ad if he knew the place but he didn't. As said the Red doesn't comes from Bulu Point, and at the moment I will not tell you where, but I can tell you that the Red's are going between 25 and 30 meters, and I didn't saw any over 25 meters, and you only found them over a distanse of 1 km. It looks like that the yellow Moshi push the Reds down. 








This picture were taken in Mahale (Sep. 2007) and without blitz, and it's the first picture taken of the red in the lake.









Picture from my tank with 5,3. They were all fry from Germany and Italy, but i hope to get some WC very soon.

/Arthur


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## Longstocking

Is it safe to assume now that they have been found by you and one of the bigger exporters... there will be more around the hobby?

Were there quite a few there? Or not many?



> It looks like that the yellow Moshi push the Reds down


 Hmmmmm this was a big hint :lol:


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## NorthShore

Hello Arthur. Welcome to the site and thanks for sharing some info and pics. :thumb:


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## Petro_Arthur

Longstocking said:


> Is it safe to assume now that they have been found by you and one of the bigger exporters... there will be more around the hobby?
> 
> Were there quite a few there? Or not many?


It's difficult to say. I were diving 3 times with the red and i quess I saw about 20 Reds. The problem was all the big stones where they lives. I have earlier heard from _Africa Diving_ that a group of 6 divers only could catch 6 fish per day. Not that I believe that but anyway. As I said they were only living at 1 km. coast, and at 25-30 meters there is not a lot of food for a algae eater.

But to your question, yes I think there will be more around, but they will never be like the Moshi or the Ikola orthognathus.

/Arthur


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## geoff_tropheus

Arthur,

Thank you very much for these wonderful photos and insight. Anyshots in the lake of other Petrochromis?

I would love to see those shots also.

I just went to your website, and it is fantastic. I only wish I could read it  Awesome pics..

Thanks,

Geoff


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## Petro_Arthur

geoff_tropheus said:


> Arthur,
> 
> I only wish I could read it  Awesome pics..
> 
> Geoff


Tankâ€™s a lot.
I had made a half appointment with my wifeâ€™s son, and if we agree he will translate most of my site. Iâ€™m arrived from the lake the 26. Of September and I think that a lot of my pictures will be published at my site in the next 30 days. I also hope that my diary will be finished then. 
Looking forward to use this site, and hope to get some Petro friends over there.

/Arthur


----------



## RoBolton

Christmas has come early this year; I will be receiving on Friday the 26th. Pictures to follow!!!


----------



## xchimbax

Tank- thanks for the pic of your reds, that is a stunner 

I now know what my next aim is.....getting some into OZ

So if they are not from 'Bulu Point' what should they be called??


----------



## parrdog

Gettin' a bit itchy already ay Jim .

Jamie.


----------



## Petro_Arthur

xchimbax said:


> So if they are not from 'Bulu Point' what should they be called??


I would say that the other name: Millibilli are pretty close. The exact place I is my secret. As I said the Red will never be commen, and I don't like every catcher to export Red Petro'es all over the world. 
The Red are rare and therefor they are only for Petro lovers  


























/Arthur


----------



## xchimbax

Thanks for the pics Arthur :thumb: are they wild reds u found in the lake?

Petrochromis sp. Red Millibilli.....interesting


----------



## Longstocking

I wasn't going to post these but this guy is too stunning not too ! This guy was imported many years ago through african diving.

Pictures were taken by Bobby Philips.


----------



## geoff_tropheus

Awesome 

thanks Sarah, and Arthur for sharing.


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## lloyd

Petro_Arthur said:


> As I said the Red will never be commen, and I don't like every catcher to export Red Petro'es all over the world.
> The Red are rare and therefor they are only for Petro lovers


 if we keep whining for them...your secret will be toast regardless. :thumb:


----------



## Petro_Arthur

lloyd said:


> Petro_Arthur said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I said the Red will never be commen, and I don't like every catcher to export Red Petro'es all over the world.
> The Red are rare and therefor they are only for Petro lovers
> 
> 
> 
> if we keep whining for them...your secret will be toast regardless. :thumb:
Click to expand...

No I don't think so. First of all, the red have been known since 2005, and only a very few were catch. First of all because its only Africa Diving who knows where to catch them (until now).

It is very expensive to catch fish in Mahale, and I have earlier heard from Africa Diving, that 6 divers are using one day to catch 6 Red's. And when you know that they are going between very big rocks at 30 meters, you will realise that the Red never will be common. And at last, its very few people that want to pay the price for the Red.

/Arthur


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## Longstocking

I think you'd be surpised Arthur how many people in the sates are willing to pay 300-400 dollars for even just 1 of these fish. Thankfully most of the petro breeders here in the states are trying to work together to keep the few that were imported alive and in breeding set-ups.

I have known people that have offered friends of mine WAY too much money for these. Luckily my friends didn't take them up on it and realized they needed to go to established petro breeders.


----------



## fisker

Longstocking said:


> I think you'd be surpised Arthur how many people in the sates are willing to pay 300-400 dollars for even just 1 of these fish.


400 dollars wouldn`t be enought 8)

Last price IÂ´ve heard has been about 600 â‚¬uro for adults :roll:


----------



## Longstocking

lol... I've heard of people offering about that ( depends on the value of the dollar at the time ).... they aren't mine to sell though ;0)


----------



## GEOST

Prices in the US when and if the wild reds do come in will likely be in the $500 to $700 range depending on size (but one can always hope it will be cheaper). As a comparison, Bluechipaquatics was selling an F1 4.5" male for $300. There is no doubt, the reds will remain exclusive for many years to come.


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## xchimbax

Is it true that there is Red fry coming out of germany and italy

Anyone on here breeding them? or know someone that is?

Take it to PM if u like


----------



## Petro_Arthur

I exchange 3 fry in Germany and 12 in Italy last year, but you really need something to exchange with. 
I know that the German female died. At the moment I have 6:3 and hope to get fry next summer. 
I also hope to get one box wild here ultimo November.
Until a exporter get a lot of Red, you have to look at this Red in the lake and dreaming about to catch it. :? :?










/Arthur

http://www.tago.dk/Tanganyika


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## Staszek

Arthur thanks for all the info on the Reds. They are beautiful fish and I hope to get some.

Sarah, your male is gorgeous  ...... I wish I could have gotten them.  Please keep me updated with your results and how they are for you. I would like to hear how they behave for you. Your website rocks :thumb:


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## A Vertigo Guy

If people keep selling rare animals for cheap, its going to kill the market for others.


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## Petro_Arthur

Hi ! Don't forget the Red.
Airfish in Germany have Red's on there 'following fish came to hand' list.
I don't know if it's the Mabilibili or the Mpimbwe Red but lets see.

And yes, it's a Red down in the left corner.


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## IrkedCitizen

That is a fantastic picture. :thumb:


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## A Vertigo Guy

Arthur, how far down is that?


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## Petro_Arthur

A Vertigo Guy said:


> Arthur, how far down is that?


The botten where at 30 meters so I think I was at 29 meter at the moment where I took this picture. I never saw a Red over 25 meter.


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## A Vertigo Guy

That still looks pretty bright being that far down. Never get tired of looking at lake pictures


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## Petro_Arthur

A Vertigo Guy said:


> That still looks pretty bright being that far down. Never get tired of looking at lake pictures


Funny you said that.
As I saw it, the water become more and more clear when you travel north. In Zambia we dived at Chituta (also at 30 meters) and there was very dark compared with Mahale. The 4 days we were in Mahale the water was very clear.









Chituta


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## tobalman

A breeder in Toronto has one show male, not for sale

Enjoy


----------



## cyatide

tobalman said:


> A breeder in Toronto has one show male, not for sale


Wow impressive male! 
How much could it be long, to you?

This is my dominant male, it is 18-19 cm (a bit more than 7 inch) TL


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## lloyd

tobalman said:


> A breeder in Toronto has one show male, not for sale


 -curious what a 'breeder' would be trying to 'show' with a single male? :lol:


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## Petro_Arthur

lloyd said:


> -curious what a 'breeder' would be trying to 'show' with a single male? :lol:


I can tell you ! 
Just the fact that one Red goes in your tank


----------



## NorthShore

Petro_Arthur said:


> lloyd said:
> 
> 
> 
> -curious what a 'breeder' would be trying to 'show' with a single male? :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I can tell you !
> Just the fact that one Red goes in your tank
Click to expand...

 :lol:


----------



## tobalman

I guess that make him not a Petrochromis red bulus breeder then.. :lol: But he do have some other nice Petro for sale.



lloyd said:


> tobalman said:
> 
> 
> 
> A breeder in Toronto has one show male, not for sale
> 
> 
> 
> -curious what a 'breeder' would be trying to 'show' with a single male? :lol:
Click to expand...


----------



## danumber1stunnar

petro arthur you have any more in the lake pics?


----------



## Petro_Arthur

The red's is spawning. I'm a happy man


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## Fogelhund

Congrats Arthur, good luck and hope she holds to term. Keep us updated, and show pictures of fry when they are free swimming.


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## IrkedCitizen

Petro_Arthur said:


> The red's is spawning. I'm a happy man


Do you strip or let them spit in the tank?


----------



## IrkedCitizen

Is African Cichlids Aquaculture website working for any of you? It isn't working for me. If it is working for you can you link the website you used to get there?

Thanks.

This is the website I have that isn't wanting to load. http://www.cichlidstanganyika.com/


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## Petro_Arthur

> Do you strip or let them spit in the tank?


It would be nice to take pictures of the red with her fry in the tank 

But when it comes to red fry i would cry if i lose one :x

So until I get fry 4 times every year, I think I will strip.


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## Lampy

Arthur,

congrats on your upcoming fry. I've a few questions if you don't mind.

How big is your female? Any guess as to her age? What are you feeding your Petros? She looks in awesome shape, nice and full in the belly, which makes me think she was in great shape and ready for spawning.

Julie


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## Petro_Arthur

Unluckily she stopped spawning today   
I think she is about 2Â½ year old. And I thought she was a male (because of the color) but the she spawned.
She is about 12-13 cm and I feed with Novo rift and JBL waffers (a lot of it)
I have 5 females more and they are about 10-11 cm and not so colorful. She is one of 3 I got from Germany, the others is from Italy.










Here she is the day before she spawns, together with 2 of her smaller sisters.


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## etcbrown

An individual in Maryland also has at least a pair look at photo album #7:

http://sarahscichlids.spaces.live.com/photos/cns


----------



## IrkedCitizen

etcbrown said:


> An individual in Maryland also has at least a pair look at photo album #7:
> 
> http://sarahscichlids.spaces.live.com/photos/cns


I'm pretty sure that is Longstocking's page.

Longstocking - How long did it take you to get your neolamprologus nigriventris to breed?


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## Longstocking

Yup that's me 

It took about 1.5 years for me.

But, lets try and stay on topic.


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## etcbrown

I guess that wasn't very fresh news then now was it? :thumb:


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## Longstocking

Well... kinda. They actually belong to other people. I'm just keeping them and trying to breed them for these 2 individuals.


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## mcfish

That's pressure, trying to breed and keep alive such great fish...I'm betting on some good news by spring. :thumb: 
Mark


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## Greggo

Good luck to all in your quest for the Reds, unfortunately going on a Grail Quest may be more successful. They were my all time favorites and I miss keeping them. Watch out for scams, however. As stated these are extremely rare, possibly the rarest. If anyone claims that they can get you 10 boxes, run away!


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## rogersb

I don't know if it's on topic or out of place, but there's a guy in Houston who has an adult male for sale. Anyone with a female should get ahold of him.


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## colinrobinson

just found this on youtube there is still hope for all that are out there looking for them


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## eklikewhoa

Yeah the guy who has one for sale has it listed here as well.....

He's finicky about selling though cause in the past he has tried to sell other fish/items but when contacted (me and a friend) he told each one of us that the other was offering this much more to try and get more money for them......he still has those fish.


----------



## Chip

I have a question, if someone were willing to finance this collection, what would the market bare for a pair. The reason I ask, calculating cost per day while collecting is not hard,ascertaining the variable unknown costs a bit tougher. Determining haow many fish most be caught is based upon market. So please be sincere and realistic in your responses, as this is aserious question.

chip


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## delock

Chip said:


> I have a question, if someone were willing to finance this collection, what would the market bare for a pair. The reason I ask, calculating cost per day while collecting is not hard,ascertaining the variable unknown costs a bit tougher. Determining haow many fish most be caught is based upon market. So please be sincere and realistic in your responses, as this is aserious question.
> 
> chip


Chip,

Let me take a stab at this.

Since the demand is high, the market for them would be determined based on the number cost and what we are willing to pay.

True this fish is a high demand fish. But majority of us here would not pay over $200 for one fish.

So let say if someone was able to collect or import four box of juvi's (2 to 3 inches). If each box hold 56. That would be 200 introduce into this market. And the demand created for them would allow you to sell them at $50 to $75 each.


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## IrkedCitizen

delock said:


> Chip said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question, if someone were willing to finance this collection, what would the market bare for a pair. The reason I ask, calculating cost per day while collecting is not hard,ascertaining the variable unknown costs a bit tougher. Determining haow many fish most be caught is based upon market. So please be sincere and realistic in your responses, as this is aserious question.
> 
> chip
> 
> 
> 
> Chip,
> 
> Let me take a stab at this.
> 
> Since the demand is high, the market for them would be determined based on the number cost and what we are willing to pay.
> 
> True this fish is a high demand fish. But majority of us here would not pay over $200 for one fish.
> 
> So let say if someone was able to collect or import four box of juvi's (2 to 3 inches). If each box hold 56. That would be 200 introduce into this market. And the demand created for them would allow you to sell them at $50 to $75 each.
Click to expand...

I think if he got some in, even at that number of fish, That he would have to be picky of who he sold them to. It would be a shame to finally get them into the states and have some people kill some off. Surely there are going to be some losses but the loss number could be extremely high if he isn't picky.

There are for sure 2 members of my local cichlid club that could get them to breed if they could get a colony. And I believe Chip knows who they are. They order from him a lot.

:fish:


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## ApexPredator

Keep this in mind though. If you have never kept petros in the past this variant is not the one to start with.

Trust me when I say, you will end up with one male.

I would just hate to see somebody lose one of these fish to inexperience when they are so difficult to obtain.


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## lloyd

Chip said:


> what would the market bare for a pair? -chip


 assuming you refer to w.c. pairs: i think this is the wrong approach to market any rare species where captive breeding is especially difficult. similar to the remark posted by Apexpredator ("i would just hate to see"), i would also assume any seller who attempts to distribute this fish indiscriminately, risks a heavy, and likely harsh judgement from his peers. the legend of this fish demands exemplary behavior, IMO.
a collaboration of interest by importer, investors, and a few very select breeders would be my first step. this type of approach would better help the endeavor to succeed past 'remember when so-and-so had a few of these?' in good time, retail a few w.c. males, sporadically to generate buzz, just prior to listing F1 availability. at platinum prices to those who 'qualify', of course. 
this protects the original w.c. investment from being pimped to death, offers spin-off marketing and advertising to the importer, credits any investor with both cash and good conscience, and offers the fish it's best chance for perpetual existence here in north america. 
that said...i would have no issues paying $150-250ea. for 2" f1 with a favorable ratio. after all, rare tropheus (eg. golden kiriza) can sell in the $80-90ea. range. and i would suspect single adult males to continue selling easily in the $500ea. range...until those pesky TR show up to ruin the run. :lol:


----------



## NorthShore

It wouldn't bother me in the least to pay a couple of hundred bucks per sub-adult/adult fish with a minimum number order.


----------



## tank

Chip said:


> I have a question, if someone were willing to finance this collection, what would the market bare for a pair. The reason I ask, calculating cost per day while collecting is not hard,ascertaining the variable unknown costs a bit tougher. Determining haow many fish most be caught is based upon market. So please be sincere and realistic in your responses, as this is aserious question.
> 
> chip


I would give $1000 per pair for 3 pairs. I figure I could spawn them within 6 months and make my money back in less than a year. They usually have between 8 and 15 fry per spawn. So figure $150-$200 per F1 fry and it wont take long to make my money back. :thumb:


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## eklikewhoa

From what I have seen with the local colony of them.....within 6 months you would be crying about the 2 males you have lost and probably some females not far from it.


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## tank

I would not spend that kind of money if I didn't know what I was doing. I have spawned Red fin longola, mpimwe silver streak famula, trewavsae, and bulu point.


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## Petro_Arthur

tank said:


> I would not spend that kind of money if I didn't know what I was doing. I have spawned Red fin longola, mpimwe silver streak famula, trewavsae, and bulu point.


First of all I don't think you will find any Red's in any store in the world at the moment.
Second, I don't think you can buy adult pairs for 1000$ when they arrive.

Airfish in Germany have them in there: :thumb: 'we expect following wild fish with the next imports ' :thumb: 
But they have been there for over one year, and now or here in February they were removed from the list.

As I said earlier in this treat: The Red will never be a common fish. A fish who lives at 30 meters, at only 800 meters coast, far away from the rest of the world, will NEVER be common. 
Working capacity is cheep in Africa, but it takes 6 man one day to catch 6 fish  
Then you have the expense to gasoline (and that is expensive in Africa). In Europe and America people crying at the Red, so I believe that you will see higher prices than 1000$ for a adult pair of Reds.

You said that you have spawn a lot of Petroes, and thats good, but then you also knows that they perhaps spawn the first year, but there is also a possibility that they killed each other at only 3 days.

One of the very competent breeders of the Reds tells histories of pair of Reds who where very gently to each other and spawned ones or twices, and the suddenly one day the male killed the female.

Until now, my Reds have been very nice to each other (3:7) but I know, that one day when I least expect it, I'm going to cry over a dead female.


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## mcfish

Great information Petro-Arthur. Does anyone try to breed these fish with dividers such as used with big tough Central American cichlids? With the cost and availability of the Reds, I was wondering what precautions you would take. Keep posting... very interesting.
Mark


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## Chip

Friends:

My original question was sincere, in that I am trying to put together a dedicated collection effort, not an easy task. The key consideration is funding this effort with no guarantee of success. I am not so concerned with making money, but trying to limit ho much we loose on this project. So thanks to all that contributed, I hope to have an update in a few weeks.

chip


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## RoBolton

Thanks for posting lies!!!! I have never told one person a price and than another price to someone else!!! Your little group of friends has contacted me in the past and has tried to ripe me off with your low-ball offers. This is why I rarely get on the forums or try to sale any of my rare fish!!! For now I'm just going to enjoy them!!! If any body has a problem with this, they can pm!!!



eklikewhoa said:


> Yeah the guy who has one for sale has it listed here as well.....
> 
> He's finicky about selling though cause in the past he has tried to sell other fish/items but when contacted (me and a friend) he told each one of us that the other was offering this much more to try and get more money for them......he still has those fish.


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## IrkedCitizen

Calm down turbo. No one was dropping names. You just outed yourself.

If you don't want to sell your fish that's fine.


----------



## NorthShore

Let's stick to the topic at hand, gentleman. 

Thanks for looking into this, Chip. :thumb:


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## geoff_tropheus

Wow...this thread is still going..

Awesome..

There is a guy here in Houston that has a group of them he has been working on them for 2 years now. HE is a very experienced guy, and he gets the females to have eggs, but they never hold them to term.

Not sure why, he has not tried other ideas.

The buying, selling, and trading of the Red will for a very long time, be a bit "shady" in my opinion. It's Africa, they are rare, and everyone wants em. It will more likely always be a bidding war, European, American, or Asian. Its global.

Wish you the best..Chip.

The truth is painful at times.

Geoff


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## IrkedCitizen

Nice to see you back posting, Geoff. :thumb:


----------



## geoff_tropheus

I took a hiatus for some personal reasons. Glad to be back!

Geoff


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## danumber1stunnar

i am bumping this up to see if anyone knows anything my friend is supposed to be getting some in for 2000 each trio


----------



## Derrote

Hi. So lokk at this, they hunt themselves!!!


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## geoff_tropheus

Good luck..

My friend has a 8ft tank long 240 gallon, and he cannot keep but 1 male in the tank.

The females in the tank still will not hold, too much stress I think.


----------



## Petro_Arthur

geoff_tropheus said:


> Good luck..
> 
> My friend has a 8ft tank long 240 gallon, and he cannot keep but 1 male in the tank.
> 
> The females in the tank still will not hold, too much stress I think.












I have 3 males and 7 females in a 960l. tank without problems, but I also have problems with the females. 
One of my females have now spawned for the 3. time and i decide to tumble myself.









28 egg from a 3 year old female thats nice. :dancing:


----------



## TaNgS_RuLe

Nice fish!

What is that device you are using to hatch the eggs? Doesn look like a normal tumbler


----------



## Petro_Arthur

http://shop.malawicarsten.dk/product.asp?product=6217&sub=213&page=1


----------



## danumber1stunnar

congrats on the spawn


----------



## fishIZneat

Arthur, did you collect those from the lake?


----------



## Petro_Arthur

No this was 10 F1 fry I got from Germany and Italy. They are now 3 years old, and it was the 3. time this red female got egg. The first 2 times she didn't hold so this time I did it myself.
Next time I will let her try again. The rest of the females are half a year younger, but one of them spawn 10 days ago, so I think they are ready soon.
I hope to get one box of reds here in august, but Africa is still Africa.


----------



## AndreasK

Hi Arthur,
I see do you have Gnathochromis and Petrochromis in an aquarium. I have also Petrochromis "red Bulu Point" (14/16) and Petrochromis "texas red fin" Longola (1/5) in 800 liters (200x80x50). I would also like Gnathochromis. Can you recommend Petrochromis and Gnathochromis together in an aquarium? 
Sorry for my englisch 

best regards
Andreas


----------



## Petro_Arthur

I don't know if I can recommend it, but I earlier have them together without problems, but you don't get the perfect opportunity for the Gnathochromis in a tank with Petroes.


----------



## AndreasK

Thank you for this information. Then no Gnathos :roll:


----------



## eklikewhoa

Beautiful!

I have been considering trying my hand at them....


----------



## geoff_tropheus

Arthur,

A friend and I are pondering coming to Denmark to get fish. I see a number of F1 fry from you and another breeder in Sweeden.

How are your fish doing? Any more F1's / F2's yet?

Hope to hear from you soon, possible visit one day.. 

Geoff


----------



## pettapettro

the hunt is over i got 55 pcs of red bulu points  7-8 cm and there gettin color as well

[email protected]


----------



## Longstocking

:lol: maybe for you guys in Europe.


----------



## pettapettro

why i can deliver to you no problem its just a 15 hours by air away :fish:

dont worry about the shipmet worry about the price :lol:


----------



## IrkedCitizen

Yeah but the person here in the states will have to have an import/export license. If they don't they have to get someone who does have it and hopefully that person doesn't screw them out of their shipment.

Seeing how these are "rare" fish shady people will do what they do best.

I'm glad you got some though. But it does us little good without pictures!


----------



## pettapettro

here you can see allot of pictures from me 

http://tropheini.de/Forum/viewforum.php?f=42 :thumb:

but you have to register i think !!!!

but its the bomb of petrochromis forum =D>

i am pettapettro on this site go in my galleri allot of picture there cheers :drooling:

here you got a video of 1 of my tanks


----------



## pettapettro

IrkedCitizen said:


> Yeah but the person here in the states will have to have an import/export license. If they don't they have to get someone who does have it and hopefully that person doesn't screw them out of their shipment.
> 
> Seeing how these are "rare" fish shady people will do what they do best.
> 
> I'm glad you got some though. But it does us little good without pictures!


ohh i forget to quote up stairs


----------



## pettapettro

IrkedCitizen said:


> Yeah but the person here in the states will have to have an import/export license. If they don't they have to get someone who does have it and hopefully that person doesn't screw them out of their shipment.
> 
> Seeing how these are "rare" fish shady people will do what they do best.
> 
> I'm glad you got some though. But it does us little good without pictures!


----------



## Arno

I'm so happy to have my new band of Petrochromis...

5 little F1 Red Bulu!
they are so little, but I hope not having just some boys.

:dancing: :dancing: :dancing:


----------



## geoff_tropheus

The hunt for the Red Bulu Points is over.


----------

