# BLACK MANGROVE???



## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

I was searching for a mangrove for my tang tanks and I stumbled across an article in TFH magazine where this fish hatchery used plants as his filtration system. They said that the plants used up all the nitrates and amonia. The majority of their plants were red and black mangroves. The red mangroves were fine but the black mangroves grew faster and were more cold resistant. Up here in pennsylvania it can get cold so I wanted them. So I went online to look for some black mangroves to buy but there wasnt any. But while searching Icame across a red mangrove review that said that this guy, he didnt have to do a water change for the past 3 years since he bought the thing. he claimed that the amonia and nitrates were all 0. So I bought some red mangroves and put em in all the tanks and they all died from lack of light. Now this is kinda hard because Ihad this huge picture window that the sun light came directly through and hit all the
tanks (no i don't have an algae problem at all since i had the tanks) but


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

i guess since the trees only had one or two leaves on them it wasn't enough.they all died. now i have a
light for all of them and i want some black mangroves. no place i know sells em and i need to know where to buy them. any help would be apreciated


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

black mangroves are hard to find. I have red mangroves and they are doing great with limited lighting. They are just in plastic containers with old tank water right now, but they constantly have new root growth.

I have also read that red mangroves are better for aquariums. I can't remember the reasoning behind it, but it was enough to convince to go with red mangroves.

I don't know why your mangroves would have died, seems strange to me, they are very hardy and don't _need_ a ton of light, although they do much better with direct sunlight. What direction was your window facing? Mine faces southwest which is a good direction, but there are trees that block the light in the afternoons.

Anyways, if you decide to go with red again I can give you a link to a really good source for seedlings.


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

my window faces directly west there are no trees or houses blocking the light butwhen i got em they had very little root growth and they didnt develop any more roots


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

If you want the source where I bought mine I can pm it to you. Each one had two leaves and plenty of root growth. They are also grown in distilled water, so there is no need for the two week acclimation period that salt water mangroves require.

They were cheap too. Two for $8.99. I bought ten.


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

ok, but i bought 7 for 18.99. Maybe i got jipped


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

juliocromus said:


> ok, but i bought 7 for 18.99. Maybe i got jipped


  

I have never seen them this cheap, unless maybe you went down to Florida and bought them locally. The average price for seedlings, which usually have not grown leaves yet, is around $10 a piece.

I'm not saying there was anything wrong with yours, in just really surprised that you found them for that cheap.


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## soulpride (Aug 30, 2009)

you can't just put the mangrove straight into the tank after receving them. i did that and lost most of my red mangrove. i have 3 left lol. you have to slowly get the plants wet then after 12 hrs being in the wet news paper put them in the tank. the mangrove are shipped damp but when it get to you the news paper is all dry so it have to get it roots wet again before putting it in. the story about putting mangrove in the tank with out ever doing water change in 3 yrs is most like a false statement. i have mine for 1 yrs and a half and i still do water change. it good for ammon, and nitrate but i won't say it the best, you will still need to do water change and have your filters running. it also need normal lighting no big watts lighting here. i do agree black mangrove are hard to come by.


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

i found this site where they had very large black white and red mangrove s . i didnt acclamat my mangrove s so maybe thats why they all died? :-?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

These are not the only plants that will consume all the nitrates in your tank. My vallisneria did that as well. But I do not believe zero nitrates means you don't have to do water changes. Nitrates are just an indicator but they are not necessarily the only harmful substance in old tank water.

The fish are just too happy when you do a water change (even with zero nitrates). It's got to be beneficial.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> These are not the only plants that will consume all the nitrates in your tank. My vallisneria did that as well. But I do not believe zero nitrates means you don't have to do water changes. Nitrates are just an indicator but they are not necessarily the only harmful substance in old tank water.
> 
> The fish are just too happy when you do a water change (even with zero nitrates). It's got to be beneficial.


+1 :thumb:

I actually bought my mangroves because I thought they would look good in my CA tank. Even if they do remove all nitrates I would still be doing weekly water changes.


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

but if theres no nitrates,nitrites amonia why wuold you have to do water changes. my fish hate water changes, it scares the **** out of em and they hide for week. :x


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

juliocromus said:


> but if theres no nitrates,nitrites amonia why wuold you have to do water changes. my fish hate water changes, it scares the #%$& out of em and they hide for week. :x


Do them more often and they won't seem so foreign to them :lol:

Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate (though you should NEVER have ammonia/nitrite in an established tank, if your just trying to get rid of ammonia, look up cycling) are just some of the variety of harmful things in old water. Also, there is a risk that slowly over time hardness and pH change especially if your kH is low, the reason your fish might seem "spooked" from water changes could be that they are done too infrequently and the water parameters change, meaining every time you do change the water it's as stressful as being acclimated to a new tank.

There are also a variety of trace minerals and things that are used up, honestly it's not that hard (hey I have some tanks I have to haul buckets for). It doesn't take much time and I personally enjoy it. However, having zero nitrates and doing weekly water changes means some looong lifespans, and very healthy fish.

My fish love water changes too, especially the guppies in my 10 gallon. I do 35% a week in that one, it's heavily planted so nitrates rarely show up, sometimes 5~10ppm but usually none (that's if I go two weeks without a water change). I LOVE doing water changes in the guppy tank because as soon as I start pouring the water in everyone darts to that side of the tank and tries to see who can swim the fastest up the hard current. After I'm done and the light goes back on they just go crazy (all male guppies, usually no aggression but right after a water change they chase each other like crazy)

-John


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

haha
i do a 50% water change every 2 weeks and when i said my fish hide its only my tangs. my gouramis and danios in my 30g do the same exact thing swim against the current i haveplants in my all my tanks except the tangs. :x


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

and if a whole fish farm can operate and use a plant only filtration system WITHOUT doing any water changes and then publish it in a TFH magazine so every body can read about it why cant i utilise a pfo system and not do any water changes? 8)


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

juliocromus said:


> and if a whole fish farm can operate and use a plant only filtration system WITHOUT doing any water changes and then publish it in a TFH magazine so every body can read about it why cant i utilise a pfo system and not do any water changes? 8)


Try doing weekly changes, I bet after a while the tangs won't hide. Fish don't spend alot of time at the fish farm. That's also why Oscars can be alive in a 10 gallon tank at the fish store.

I would test the water out of your tap and in your tank, if it's been over a week there is a chance your tank waters chemisty (pH/Hardness) is different, one of the many many reasons to keep a weekly or better water change schedule.

-John


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I read that article a while back too(April 2010 edition). I really wish they talked about the issue of lost minerals in the hatchery.

But the fact is that their plant to fish ratio would be unrealistic, in most cases, to maintain in an aquarium setting. Also, they use well water(probably high in minerals) to automatically top off their water to compensate for water lost through evaporation. In an aquarium there would be much less water loss through evaporation, even if you had an open tank. Their system has a huge water surface area, so they are replacing much much more water than if they had a volume-surface area ratio similar to that of an aquarium.

I really don't think the system they are using could be replicated on a small scale and be expected to have the same results.

The one big thing I got from it that I found to be useful is the water clarity of the plant filtered water compared to that of their pond. The high growth plants they use out compete the algae that is so prevalent in their other systems.


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

i use bottled spring water i really dont trust my tap water. whan i turn on the hot water brown water comes out the bottled waters ph is 7.0 no nitrites nitrates or amonia 8)


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

juliocromus said:


> i use bottled spring water i really dont trust my tap water. whan i turn on the hot water brown water comes out the bottled waters ph is 7.0 no nitrites nitrates or amonia 8)


The point is not the quality of the water your putting in, the point is the fact that if you go too long between water changes, pH and hardness can change, ESPECIALLY with spring water.


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## juliocromus (Aug 1, 2010)

i can see the connections between black mangroves and water changes but what i really wan t to know is if black mangroves are safe to put in a fishtank ? tokyo said something about red mangroves being safer.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Oh, I didn't mean safer, I just meant that red mangroves thrive better in aquariums than black mangroves do. Atleast thats what I've heard. Black mangroves are absolutely safe to put in the aquarium, you just might have a tougher time getting them to thrive. Which means they would end up being less effective at removing nitrates.

I don't think the connection is between black mangroves and water changes so much as nitrate levels and black mangroves. Actually nitrate levels and plants, not specifically black mangroves.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

black mangroves don't like to be fully submerged and need to send out roots into the air to compensate for the times when their roots are submerged. 
red mangroves don't mind growing right in the water. Mangrove seedlings are pretty cheap down here in Florida... 

all plants will use up ammonia, then nitrate... I'm not sure what still builds up in a small confined aquarium, but the most I've ever been able to get to is water changes every few months and that was on my under water jungles with substrates that were nearly solid with roots n organic material... I hope that helps.


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