# 135gal Central American Community Pics, Vids & Updates



## CjCichlid

Hey everyone,

I just recently got my 135gal setup and wanted to share a pic. I am pretty happy with the aquascape as of now considering I had a limited amount of things to work with. Once I gather more rocks and driftwood I will add to what I already have. For now though, I didn't want to make it to complicated as I will be growing fish out which will involve me having to remove some.

Specs on the tank...

135gal (72x18x24)
Filtration: Marineland C-530, AC110 and a HOT Magnum
Lighting: 48" BeamsWork "Bright" LED

As of now the stocking is only a single Nicaraguan and a Sengal Bichir. I am waiting on an order I put in to my LFS to arrive. Final stocking will consist of 1x Vieja Synspilum, 1x Hypsophrys Nicaraguansis, 1x Thor. Ellioti, 1x Crypt. Sajica, 1x Hero. Multispinosa, 5x Filament Barbs and maybe my Bichir.










Thanks for looking, and please feel free to post your compliments and/or criticisms!


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## clekchau

CjCichlid said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I just recently got my 135gal setup and wanted to share a pic. I am pretty happy with the aquascape as of now considering I had a limited amount of things to work with. Once I gather more rocks and driftwood I will add to what I already have. For now though, I didn't want to make it to complicated as I will be growing fish out which will involve me having to remove some.
> 
> Specs on the tank...
> 
> 135gal (72x18x24)
> Filtration: Marineland C-530, AC110 and a HOT Magnum
> Lighting: 48" BeamsWork "Bright" LED
> 
> As of now the stocking is only a single Nicaraguan and a Sengal Bichir. I am waiting on an order I put in to my LFS to arrive. Final stocking will consist of 1x Vieja Synspilum, 1x Hypsophrys Nicaraguansis, 1x Thor. Ellioti, 1x Crypt. Sajica, 1x Hero. Multispinosa, 5x Filament Barbs and maybe my Bichir.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking, and please feel free to post your compliments and/or criticisms!


beautiful i don't think you need to add anything at all except the fish


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## aquariam

That is art. 
Honestly. The whole thing you've done there with everything is art. It could be something you swam up to in nature.

My head screams red head geo and rotkeil severum when I look at it.

But your list is nice also. I like the denison barb over the filamentosa. Then again if you do a filamentosa perfect, few non cichlids that size can touch it, denison included. I just find growout filamentosas a crapshoot.

Then again if you can aquascape like that you can pick good stock .

What am I looking at? Is that a real plant species? It's a great scape.


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## GOSKN5

amazing set up.... beautiful scape...

does the driftwood extend all the way to the bottom or is it floating or what? what kind of plant is in there??

awesome work again, cant wait to see some fish in there...


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## CjCichlid

Wow everyone, thanks for the kind words! 

I honestly didn't think the scape was all that special, as I was really getting frustrated not having a better selection of stones and wood to choose from! To answer the questions... The plants and twigs are actually FAKE! I bought them at Hobby Lobby (crafts store) and then cut them to size and zip-tied them together. The massive piece of driftwood I found at a near by river. It was a lot larger and I cut it down as a lot of it was uninteresting. The whole thing floats, but I just wedged it in place between the front and back walls of the aquarium. As far as stocking goes... Denison Barbs are indeed awesome! But they come with a huge price tag. I think my LFS was asking something like $26 a piece, and I would want a large shoal. So, I think I am going to try the Filament Barbs. Geos, again, are awesome! I was very tempted to get a shoal of them... and actually still kinda am. :?

I'll be sure to keep this thread updated with more pics when I get more fish in there and if anything changes with the scape. Thanks again!


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## clgkag

That is amazing!


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## GossipFolks

beautiful setup. looks like alot of work went into it and i know your fish will be happy.
i got a 6" red hump geo that would love this. let me know if you're interested.


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## CjCichlid

Thanks Gossip, but I am going to try and stick with all CA's for now...


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## tim_s

How did you suspend the wood - I would love to know the secrets.


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## CjCichlid

The large piece of driftwood floats on it's own, so I simply wedged it between the front and back of the aquarium. If you want to suspend a piece and not wedge it in place, you can use zip-ties. Just drill a small hole in the plastic rim/brace of aquarium and a small hole through the piece of wood you are using and zip-tie it in place. I just used this method in my 40gal that I'm currently setting up and it worked very well.


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## smitty

Great looking setup.


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## CjCichlid

A little update...

I decided to stop by my LFS today to see if any of the fish I had ordered came in yet. Unfortunately, they are having a hard time finding them. A lot of their cichlids come from individual local breeders, so it takes time to get in special requests. This works against me, as I have little patience and am tired of looking at an empty tank! So, I caved and bought a few fish that were not on my original stock list (nothing out of the ordinary for me).

They did have a nice shoal of Filament Barbs, which were on my stock list. But, after seeing them fully grown, in person, I decided against them. They get quite large and would take up a lot of space. I also wanted something that was more "Central American-ish", so I decided to go with a shoal of Buenos Aires Tetras. Although not Central American, they closely resemble Astyanax Mexicanus which IS native to Central America. Unfortunately, they are very hard to come by in the trade. So, I now have a small shoal of 6 BA Tetras. I would have gotten a few more but that's all they had. I will most likely bump their number up once they get more in.

As far as Cichlids go, I went ahead and picked up a nice little (2.5in) male Jack Dempsey. I saw him the last time I was there and he had really colored up nicely. I have high hopes that he will be a stunner in a few months. I also caved and decided to pick up a small (2.5in) Vieja/Paratheraps Hartwegi. I believe they are not very commonly seen in the trade so I thought I'd give them a try. They only had three and they were all still to small to sex, so I watched them for a bit and picked out the one that was showing the most dominance and color. Hopefully "it" will become a "he" in a few months. If not, my LFS said I could always trade it in down the line.

Once everyone settles in I'll be sure to post up a few pics! Hopefully a few of my original choices will show up soon so I can complete my stock.


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## FeelingFishly

You tanks looks awesome. I am in the process of setting up a 96x24x24 Malawi Cichlid tank. Do you think 2 of these would okay? Does anyone know if you could grow plants with these lights?


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## CjCichlid

Thanks! As far as the BeamsWork lights... It really depends on how brightly lite you want your tank. I like a more subtle/dimmer look, others like theirs very brightly lite. In my opinion 2 of the 48" "freshwater bright" fixtures will work great. As far as growing plants, this again can vary. What kind of plants are you trying to grow? If your sticking to simpler, low light plants, I think they will do just fine. But, if your wanting a heavily planted tank you may want to look into the brighter "reef bright" model.


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## Shahlvah

Nice looking tank....very nice!


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## tabby003

Beautiful aquascaping! I love that driftwood.


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## DISCIPLE

NICELY DONE!!


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## football mom

Very nice tank! I am going to change my 90 gallon tank from Africans to New World cichlids
in the future, and that is the kind of look I have in mind. Thanks for sharing!


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## Phivtoosyx

That tank is inspiring! Nice!


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## CjCichlid

Another update on my 135gal... Here's a pic.










Current stock:
1x Male Jack Dempsey
1x Femle Nigaraguan
9x Buenos Aires Tetras
1x Bristle Nose Pleco
**If you read my previous update I had gotten a Vieja/Paratheraps Hartwegi. I have since returned it to the LFS as it refused to eat for the week I had it and was flashing quite a bit.

In the pic you can see my little male Jack Dempsey in the bottom right along with my school of 9 Buenos Aires Tetras. My Nic was probably busy digging out one of her caves...

All I did was rearrange and add more rock. I also removed the small branchy twigs as the finish on them (they were fake) seemed to be coming off from being submerged in the water. I'm not sure if it would have caused any harm, but better to be safe them sorry I suppose. A couple days ago I found two more pieces of driftwood that I may use. One is kind of a chunkier piece I would set on the bottom and the other is a longer single branch. I need to soak both of them for a few days before I attempt that though. I can hopefully gather a few suitable twigs as well, as I really liked the look of the other ones resting on the bottom.

I made another stop at my LFS store today and it was relatively unproductive. I actually went to 3 different places and NONE of them had anything of interest. All I came home with were 3 more BA Tetras to add to the 6 I already had... Hopefully my luck with finding fish will take a turn here soon!

Let me know what you all think and thanks for looking!


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## football mom

Lovin' the aquascaping. Keep posting pics!


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## CjCichlid

Thought I'd post a quick update...

Since I last posted, I have added 3x Thorichthys Meeki and 7x Herotilapia Multispinosa. The Multispinosa are actually in a 15gal quarantine tank at the moment. I will add them to the 135gal in a couple weeks once they put on a bit more size. I will eventually narrow it down to 2x Meeki (pair) and 2x or 4x Multispinosa depending on how many pairs I end up getting.

I've had a couple pieces of driftwood soaking for the past couple weeks as well that I am planning on working into the aquascape. I'll be sure to post updated pics here soon!


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## cage623

I had read this post a while back but must have missed the part about the hartwegi. I am so jealous! If I would have ordered fish online this what I would have got. Even though I have never seen one in person, I fell in love with them while doing my research.

How is yours doing and do you have any pics to share so I can live vicariously through you?

-Cage


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## cage623

Sorry didn't read the second page before I posted. My bad.

-Cage


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## CjCichlid

Yes, unfortunately I returned the Hartwegi. It simply was not doing well from day one. He was refusing every kind of food I offered for the week I had him and was constantly flashing. I think it worked out for the better though, as I'd much rather have a few smaller pairs than a couple of larger unpaired cichlids. I think it makes for a much more interesting and active tank.


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## CjCichlid

A few updated pics... Not sure why, but for some reason I couldn't get them to turn out as good as the other ones. They are a bit out of focus and look kind of grainy to me... :?

I added two more pieces of driftwood and removed a few rocks, as I wasn't to fond of the arrangement of them on the right side.




























Thanks for looking!


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## CjCichlid

Thought I would update this thread with a few pics of my fish...

My female Hypsosphrys Nicaraguense









Another of my female Nic. This was actually taken this morning. I woke up to find she had laid some eggs (infertile as I have not yet introduced the male) and she wasn't to happy to be photographed!  









My male Hypsosphrys Nicaraguense. I actually just received this guy a couple days ago. He should color up once he settles in.









And a few of my Multispinosa, I have a total of 5. Hopefully I will get at least one pair.









Thanks for looking!


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## Doc6DK

Love the tank and the idea to add more rocks made it look even better IMO! Good choice on cichlids and dithers :thumb:


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## CjCichlid

Thanks Doc, I'm pretty happy with it thus far!


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## deaver

I live in a place with abundant rivers as well as boggie area, what should i look for when selecting driftwood from these areas and what is better bogwood or river wood. should the riverwood be submersed or along the bank. beautiful tank by the way.


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## CjCichlid

deaver said:


> I live in a place with abundant rivers as well as boggie area, what should i look for when selecting driftwood from these areas and what is better bogwood or river wood. should the riverwood be submersed or along the bank. beautiful tank by the way.


Thanks. When collecting wood, I look for wood that has the bark already removed. Whether the wood is submerged or washed up on the bank does not really matter. Just be sure it is not already beginning to decompose a great deal. You want the wood to be relatively hard, not soft and spongy. :thumb:


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## deaver

awesome. thanks. the bark being "already removed" makes perfect sense. I hadn't considered that.


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## CjCichlid

I finally managed to put together a video. Its not the greatest as I filmed it with my phone but you can still view it in 720p HD which I would definitely recommend! As you can see, everyone has grown quite a bit and are surprisingly still getting along very well. My Nics have been showing a lot of interest in each other, however no true signs of spawning yet.






Link:




Thanks for watching!


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## yuanyelss

It looks quite and beautiful, you do really good job!


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## Aquaponicus

Great looking tank!


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## CjCichlid

Thanks! This is definitely the most enjoyable and entertaining tank I've setup and am quite pleased with it myself!


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## CjCichlid

Added a new piece of driftwood. Not sure if I like it or not yet... What do you all think? :fish:


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## mlancaster

Hi CjCichlid,

The additional driftwood looks great. Your tank is awesome; thank you for sharing the pictures.

Thanks,
Matt


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## Elijah

Brilliant looking tank CjCichild :thumb:


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## CjCichlid

Thought I would update this thread since it has been quite a while and quite a few things have changed...

Here's a recent pic... I used a different camera than from the last pic and despite my best efforts I simply couldn't get it to turn out as good. I'll have to borrow that camera again!










Current stock:
1x V. argentea
2x (pair) T. meeki
2x (pair) A. multispinosa
4x (1m - 3f) H. nicaraguensis -- I finally got my male to pair off with one of the females so I will be removing at least one of the unpaired females soon.
7x C. sajica -- Just got these guys not to long ago after looking for some forever. They are still very young (~1in) but once a pair forms I will remove the extras.
1x Bristlenose Pleco

As for the pairs... I have had successful spawns from both the meeki and multispinosus, however the fry don't usually last more than about a week as I leave them in the community. My pair of nics just spawned for the first time this past weekend and I'm expecting free swimmers any day now. They laid the eggs in the far right corner (hence the mounds of sand in the pic) and I can't get around to see them as that end of the tank is against a wall...

I'm still really enjoying this tank and I feel it's only gotten better as the all the fish have matured. There seems to always be something going on whether it's a harmless territory dispute or a pair defending their fry. I'm a firm believer that if your not keeping paired cichlids, you are missing out on the most interesting and interactive behavior they display!

Thanks for looking! :fish:


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## CjCichlid

My pair of nics brought out their fry for the first time last night...


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## deaver

good luck with the fry, nice post


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## Shahlvah

WOW!!!...that is awesome!!!, I wish you the best!!! :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## CjCichlid

Thanks guys 

This is the first spawn I've had from my nics so I didn't really know what to expect. It turns out their pretty aggro; much more so than my meeki and multispinosa! I haven't attempted to save any of the fry from my previous spawns (meeki and multispinosa), but I'll most likely pull the fry from the nics early next week as they are really giving everyone a hard time. I already removed the two extra female nics yesterday. I'm now in the works of re-scaping the tank as I'm definitely going to need some better line of sight breaks and distinguishable territories in order to keep aggression to a minimum. I'm also considering introducing another school of Buenos Aires Tetras, as well as some livebearers to help distract the cichlids from each other.

I'll be sure to post updated pics once I get everything the way I want it... :fish:


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## CjCichlid

Haven't been on the forums in a while so I thought I'd update this thread. I added a few oak branches/twigs as well as made a few changes to the stock this past week. Here's an up to date pic...










Current stock:
1x V. synspilum (new)
1x H. pearsei (new)
1x V. argentea
2x (pair) T. meeki
2x (pair) A. multispinosa
1x H. nicaraguensis (male) -- I had 3 females as well but once a pair formed and they spawned they were simply to aggressive for the community so I decided to just keep the male as he is the current "peace keeper".
3x C. sajica -- I'm down to 3 from 8. They were really small (and still are) so I'm guessing the others were made into late night snacks. The remaining three have put on a bit of size so hopefully they won't go missing.
1x Bristlenose Pleco

The meeki haven't spawned in quite a while however my multispinosa's spawn pretty regularly. They have actually been clearing a spot the past two days, so I am expecting fry from them again soon. I'm sure the stock will continue to evolve as the two Vieja and pearsei begin to put on some real size...

Thanks for looking!


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## cichlid-gal

As always I love the look of the "hanging" wood in the tank. Your style is great (rule of thirds is awesome). Thanks for sharing!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Love your setup. Looks great.


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## Floridagirl

Stunning aquascape!!


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## CjCichlid

Thanks for the kind words everyone!


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## CjCichlid

Once again, haven't been on the forums in a bit so I figured it was time for an update..

Scape and stock have changed yet again. I really thinned out my stock this past week to make room for my future big guys (H. pearsi, V. argentea, and P. synspilus). I am also now down to 2x C. sajica. I lucked out and ended up with a male and female so hopefully they will pair once they mature; the male is already turning into a real head turner! I also added a group of 7x C. chetumalensis not to long ago and will thin them out once they begin to pair off. I'll most likely end up keeping a trio of them..

Stock list:
1x H. pearsi 
1x V. argentea
1x P. synspilus
2x C. sajica
7x C. chetumalensis

As for the scape, I ended up having to tear my tank apart to net the fish I traded in so I decided to start from scratch. I wanted a simpler, more "roomy" scape this time around. This is what I came up with...



Thanks for looking! :fish:


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## Iggy Newcastle

I love the wood selection, but miss the rocky outcropping on the left side... still awesome, though!


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## CjCichlid

Hah, I know.. I didn't like how bare it looked at first but it's slowly growing on me. My H. pearsi is growing like a weed so I figured I'd simplify the scape a bit. The fish seem to like the open area as well as they are constantly over there picking through the sand and what not.

Thanks for the compliment!


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## joehorse20

Awesome looking tank and fish, very nice


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## CjCichlid

Thanks!

I stopped by my LFS today as I was wanting to add some type of dither fish, mostly to add some movement. I decided to pick up a colony of 10 Black Yucatan Mollies as they are "biotope" correct; not to mention their solid black bodies contrast well with the rest of my stock. I also went ahead and got a little Spotted Rapheal Catfish. I've been trying to find some Brochis splendens (Emerald Green Catfish) for a while now but haven't had any luck. If I ever come across them, I'll add a shoal of 6+ as well.


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## cichlid-gal

Brochis splendens look like corys...cute. I love your tank CJ... great job. Looks stunning!


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## Darkskies

Great tank! However, what happened to your meeki and multispinosa pairs?


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## CjCichlid

Thanks!

Darkskies, I changed my stock up quite a bit to free up some room. I had spawns from both pairs and was ready to try something new. The multispinosa were also beginning to get picked on pretty heavily. I'm now looking forward to my sajica and chets pairing up and spawning in the near future.


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## RayVan

Nice transformations. Each stage of your tank had a great look about it. Making the tank as natural as possible. Like it.


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## CjCichlid

Quick update.. I added a 10 watt LED spotlight over the right side of the tank (directly above the floating piece of driftwood). I also have been adding more oak twigs as I randomly collect them from the yard. Despite my best efforts with my point and shoot camera the picture still managed to turn out like **** and does the lighting no justice. The tank is substantially dimmer in person and with the addition of the LED spotlight there is quite a bit more shimmer as well as added shadows. 
Maybe I can get a short video uploaded soon.. :fish:


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## LinzBragg

Very feng shui! And FeelingFishy, a Malawi tank doesn't need any plants in it, the fish don't need them and they just take up space.


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## notho2000

LinzBragg said:


> Very feng shui! And FeelingFishy, a Malawi tank doesn't need any plants in it, the fish don't need them and they just take up space.


I'm not quite sure why you are referencing a Malawi tank. Have you even looked at the thread content? The tank of the OP is set up for Central American cichlids. Your post borders on 'spam'.


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## cichlid-gal

notho2000 said:


> LinzBragg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very feng shui! And FeelingFishy, a Malawi tank doesn't need any plants in it, the fish don't need them and they just take up space.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not quite sure why you are referencing a Malawi tank. Have you even looked at the thread content? The tank of the OP is set up for Central American cichlids. Your post borders on 'spam'.
Click to expand...

The poster of that comment (LinzBragg) appears to be new to the forum and was probably just in the wrong thread (it sure looks that way). Me, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt...no harm done...just a random wrong post. I may have done that too at some point when I have had a couple of tabs open. It happens.


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## notho2000

cichlid-gal said:


> notho2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LinzBragg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very feng shui! And FeelingFishy, a Malawi tank doesn't need any plants in it, the fish don't need them and they just take up space.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not quite sure why you are referencing a Malawi tank. Have you even looked at the thread content? The tank of the OP is set up for Central American cichlids. Your post borders on 'spam'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The poster of that comment (LinzBragg) appears to be new to the forum and was probably just in the wrong thread (it sure looks that way). Me, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt...no harm done...just a random wrong post. I may have done that too at some point when I have had a couple of tabs open. It happens.
Click to expand...

Hey LinzBragg , about my comments about your post. I came down a little heavy on you. In hind sight, cichlid-gal's comments are well taken. The last thing I want to do is discourage you from posting. Looking forward to your continuing participation.
Jim


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## CjCichlid

Well, I finally managed to throw together a video. Its not the greatest as I had to use my phone since it's the only thing I have that records in HD; so I apologize in advance for how dark and shadowy it is..

Be sure to watch it in HD and let me know what you think! :fish:


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## cichlid-gal

Great job CJ....what is the fish at 3:10-3:18 with the purple, blue, golden and black patches...love that fish!!!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Awesome dude! Tank looks great!


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## CjCichlid

Thanks guys/gals!

cichlid-gal, the fish you are talking about is a young Vieja/Paraneetroplus synspilus.

Also, I stopped by my LFS this afternoon and ended up walking out with this guy...


I know what he is.. but anybody want to make a guess?


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## Cichlidman14

1.) Parachromis dovii
2.) Parachromis managuenis
3.) Nandopsis salvini


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## CjCichlid

Cichlidman14 said:


> 1.) Parachromis dovii
> 2.) Parachromis managuenis
> 3.) Nandopsis salvini


1. No
2. No
3. and no
opcorn:

Hint: He's really washed out from the stress of being bagged and what not.. Once settled in, he'll be showing some nice blue spangles.


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## Cichlidman14

Man  Guess i'll have to look harder.


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## Iggy Newcastle

I shouldn't even attempt, but what the heck... Astatheros sp?


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## CjCichlid

Ah yes but.. Astatheros _____?______.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Just saw your hint for the first time. Robertsoni...?


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## Cichlidman14

Iggy, i was going to say that, i it's not that, then i'm guessing Alfani.(Pastel Cichlid)


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## CjCichlid

Hah yes, it's an A. robertsoni. =D>

And the winner gets... nothing. :roll:

He's already colored up quite a bit and is showing really nice blue pearling! You don't see these too often so I'm looking forward to growing him out! Now if my V. synspilus would just stop picking on him! :?


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## Cichlidman14

if it's not that. Woops  Excuse my grammer


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## Iggy Newcastle

Yea! I win... nothing.


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## Cichlidman14

Hah Hah :lol:


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## cichlid-gal

CjCichlid said:


> Thanks guys/gals!
> 
> cichlid-gal, the fish you are talking about is a young Vieja/Paraneetroplus synspilus.


OK..now I'm thinking I want a CA tank. That is one beautiful fish. I have a 165G tank I just moved from storage to my garage yesterday...empty...waiting... :lol: ...maybe maybe


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## CjCichlid

Do it! You won't regret it! CA's are full of personality and can be quite personable.


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## CjCichlid

Took a quick video of the new addition (A. robertsoni)...


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## CjCichlid

Now that I figured out how to upload videos from my phone quickly/easily onto YouTube I'm thinking I'm beginning to get carried away.. :roll:

Anyway, I was just bumming around on this rainy Saturday evening and noticed my synspilus challenging my pearsei and thought I'd take a quick video. I missed most of the action as I hesitated in taking a video but they had a standoff for a good 5 minutes before the syn finally backed down. "He" (not sure of sex) is now swimming around like he's pouting, fins clamped and all! I'm glad the pearsei remains the tank boss as he isn't really all that aggressive, more of a peace keeper that flaunts occasionally.

Be sure to watch in HD and don't mind the background noise, I didn't take the time to do any editing.. :fish:


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## Iggy Newcastle

The Astatheros looks great!

I enjoyed the background noise. Survivorman is one of my favorite shows. Wish he was still doing it. But I don't remember Les listening to opera music when in the field...


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## CjCichlid

Haha, the opera sounding music was a commercial coming from our living room. I didn't realize it was so loud until I watched the video myself, my roommate must be deaf!


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## CjCichlid

Alright, background music no more! Took the extra 2min and edited the vid real quick!


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## CjCichlid

Here's a short video of me feeding some live backworms that I recorded yesterday. My A. robertsoni hadn't eaten anything since I've had him (yesterday marked a week) so I stopped by my LFS to see what they had been feeding and sure enough, live blackworms did the trick. Sure is a picky little guy; hopefully he takes to pellets/flake soon.

Enjoy and be sure to watch in HD!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Glad he finally came around to eating for you. Enjoyed the vid and music.

Did you remove the Pearsi? Maybe I missed him...


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## CjCichlid

Definitely didn't remove the H. pearsei, he's one of my favorites! He just managed to remain out of view as he took off after grabbing a HUGE mouthful as soon as the blackoworms hit the water's surface. He is quite the glutton..


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## notho2000

CjCichlid said:


> Let's get this thread back on topic shall we? :?
> 
> Here's a short video of me feeding some live backworms that I recorded yesterday. My A. robertsoni hadn't eaten anything since I've had him (yesterday marked a week) so I stopped by my LFS to see what they had been feeding and sure enough, live blackworms did the trick. Sure is a picky little guy; hopefully he takes to pellets/flake soon.
> 
> Enjoy and be sure to watch in HD!


Your thread is back on track...guaranteed. You know, it's funny about 'robertsoni'. I've had them (Jutiapa/Honduras) for about 2 years now, and for about the first year,never saw them eat very enthusiastically. As they got older, that changed and now they are at the front of the feeding line, beating most other fish to the food. They eat pellets with a vengeance and bloodworms as a treat. They like raw peas too. As much as they eat, mine are never full-bellied, always looking like they could do with a good meal. I think it's just a matter of time before your 'robertsoni' settles in. He may be being intimidated by your'pearsei'.


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## CjCichlid

notho, that's good to hear as I initially thought he may have had internal parasites. Once this batch of blackworms are gone I'm going to try and wait him out until he takes pellets/flake as if I was to keep spoiling him with them he'll probably never come around.


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## CjCichlid

Well, Mr. robertsoni decided he was hungry enough to take some NLS pellets today. He's also suddenly becoming quite the aggressor during feeding time. I'd say he's only second to the H. pearsei as far as hierarchy goes within the community; and has seemed to take a strong disliking to my syn. He must remember the first couple days as the syn was intially giving him a hard time.. :lol:


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## Iggy Newcastle

Take the good with the bad, I guess. In this case the good is very good.

Go Bears!


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## CjCichlid

Hah yeah.. I was considering going back and grabbing a female for him, but now that he's came out of his shell and showing his true personality I think I'll let him remain a bachelor. I am pretty much done when it comes to adding anything else stock wise. If anything, I'd add a few more Mollies as I was expecting the number of them to grow from them breeding but all the fry get picked off pretty much instantly.

On another note, I was out hiking this past weekend at a near by park and came across a HUGE amount of driftwood. Thinking about going back this weekend to try and sneak a few pieces out! :fish:


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## DBLN8

Great looking tank. I love the hanging wood.


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## CjCichlid

Thanks DBLN8!

So I decided to take advantage of the great weather today and went out hiking again for a few hours. I had my eye out for any interesting pieces of driftwood and came across a ton but ended up bringing this one home..








It's a pretty big piece so it'll definitely need some trimming before I try and put it in my tank. For size reference, it's sitting on top of my hot tub cover.

Oh, and I couldn't help but post up this pic of my partner in crime. He had a blast fetching sticks out of the reservoir.


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## CjCichlid

Well, I figured it was again about time for an update..

I put together another short video and I'll post it later this evening as it's currently uploading to YouTube. Not much has changed since the last video I posted. Stocking remains the same and everyone is getting along great. For a while there my A. robertsoni was starting to get a bit unruly but he has calmed down quite a bit and the tank is remaining surprisingly peaceful. I have somehow lost all three of the Bronze Cories I had, but I think it was simply due to old age as they were fully grown and had been at my LFS for quite a while before I got them. I do still however have a single Spotted Raphael cat in there, which I haven't seen for weeks, so I hope he's doing well? :? As you'll see once the video is posted, everyone has grown a bit. I honestly couldn't tell until I watched one of my older videos but they've all definitely put on some size. My C. chets are beginning to mature as well and have been bickering amongst each other. I believe two have paired up as well as they have been in and out of breeding dress for the past couple of days. They have taken a liking to the front right corner of the aquarium and have been guarding it off and on. Maybe I'll have eggs soon?

Be sure to check back for the video! :fish:


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## CjCichlid

Here's the video, sorry about the glare from the windows. Be sure to watch in HD!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Certainly look like they've grown to me. Sweet tank, as usual.


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## CjCichlid

Thanks Iggy. It's overdue for a re-scape but I've been quite busy lately. I'm still thinking about how I want to incorporate my new piece of driftwood. It's pretty big so it will need a decent amount of trimming before it's able to fit as well..


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## CjCichlid

Well I got some bad news. I lost my A. robertsoni to what I believe was internal parasites. Long story short... I broke my collar bone mountain biking last week and had to have surgery this past Tuesday. I had noticed him acting pretty listless before I had surgery and he never really did develop much of an appetite from the get go. I had to stay at my parents house for a couple days after the surgery and came home last night to find him dead.


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## FedEXguy

Man, that's sad. Sorry to hear that. It's always upsetting to lose a pet.


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## CjCichlid

Yeah, just icing on the cake after breaking my collar bone!

Good news is my assumed pair of C. chetumalensis look like they will be spawning soon. The female is looking pretty plump and her breeding tube is beginning to show. Once I get around to re-scaping the tank, I think I'll go ahead and slim down the number of the remaining 5 C. chetumalensis as well as my pair of C. sajica. With all of them gone I may look for some juvenile T. pasionis or some other species of Astatheros.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Thought you couldn't part with the Sajica...

Sorry about your robertsoni.

Have fun removing fish with one arm lol! Get well dude...


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## CjCichlid

Iggy,

I really do like the C. sajica (the male is an absolute brute) but I am starting to realize two different pairs of Cryptoheros species probably isn't going to work out very well long term. The sajica have also been giving the newly formed pair of C. chetumalensis a pretty hard time. Plus, the fact that they are the only species that doesn't fit into my Mexican "themed" biotope kinda bothers me..

The broken collar bone is a real pain but I should be pretty much 100% within 6 weeks. The hardest part for me will be being pretty sedentary as I'm a bit of a gym junkie.. I guess I'll just spend more time watching my fish?


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## CjCichlid

Thought I'd post up a quick clip of my pair of C. chetumalensis that are preparing to spawn. I really wanted to get some good footage of them courting, digging, and defending but of course -- as soon as I get close to the aquarium they all just beg for food. If you look closely you can see the females egg tube starting to drop.

I focus on the pair at around the 30 second make. Sorry about the shakiness; I only have one good arm at the moment! :? Enjoy and be sure to watch in HD!


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## FedEXguy

Very nice! Everything looks excellent. Are those twigs still Hobby Lobby fakes?


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## CjCichlid

Thanks!

Hah, and no. Everything in there is real. All the twigs are from a large Oak in my front yard. I removed all the fake twigs a long time ago as the surface of them were beginning to turn to slime and fall off. :-? Not sure why I didn't go with real twigs from the start; I think I thought the bark would rot and cause problems but that's definitely not the case. The real twigs look much better and the fish actually graze the algae and bark off of them regularly.


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## FedEXguy

Ok, I thought they looked surprisingly real! Did you do anything to treat the oak twigs? I'm looking for ideas on what to put in my tank and I've got an entire forest of oak trees to choose twigs from. Also, I understand americans really like to flip leaves to look for food. Ever tried any leaves in your tank?


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## CjCichlid

I don't do anything to the twigs besides maybe brush off any loose debris. Oak is a good choice as it's a hard wood, so it does not break down very easily when submerged. When collecting twigs, you want to only use dead branches. They don't necessarily have to be on the ground already, but you do want them to be dead. An easy way to tell is that they should be pretty brittle and snap easily..

I have and still do use leaves. I usually collect them right around this time and let them dry out completely. I then soak them for a few days so they become water logged and sink before putting them in the aquarium. The fish do definitely enjoy picking through them to look for food. Over time the leaves simply break down and disappear into the substrate. I had a pretty good amount of leaf litter last winter and as you can see from my recent videos, there is no sign of them whatsoever. I'll be adding some more soon..

One thing to keep in mind when adding any kind of wood or leaves into your tank is that they WILL release tannins. Some people like the tannic colored water, some don't. Also be sure not to collect anything that may have the chance of being exposed to any kind of herbicides or pesticides.


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## FedEXguy

Thanks for the advice. I've had very tannin-heavy tanks in the past, and it does help make everything look more biotope-esque. Having said that, I definitely prefer the clear water look from a strict aesthetic view. Tannins are a good visual reminder for me to do a water-change if I've been busy, though.

I've got some dead branches fairly low on some of the trees in my backyard, so I'll probably just chop those off and use some leaves from the same tree.


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## CjCichlid

No problem..

I'm with you, I prefer crisp, clear water as well (unless it was an Amazon biotope). However, since I always use a lot of driftwood in my setups I have kind of become use to the somewhat tannic look. I usually do 30% water changes, but the other day I decided to do a larger 80% change. I couldn't believe how much clearer and brighter the tank looked afterward.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Liked the video and the music as we'll.


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## CjCichlid

I aim to please! :wink:


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## CjCichlid

Well my female C. chet has been a very vivid white with black bars for the past two days. She's defending the spawning site much more aggressively as well and doesn't seem to be straying to far from it. They dug under a rock facing the back of the tank so I can't tell if there are eggs or not? I guess time will tell..


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## runaway2mom

Beautiful Tank!!


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## CjCichlid

Thanks!

Well, I added a decent amount of leaf litter yesterday after soaking them for a couple days. A few of my other C. chets are beginning to show interest in each other as well, so it looks like I could have another pair forming soon. I really need to get my pair of C. sajica out of there asap but I am dreading tearing my setup apart to catch the little buggers! :?


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## FedEXguy

Isn't that always the way it is? "Alright, my tank is looking good. Just perfect. Now to tear it down and catch that one dang fish."


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## CjCichlid

Hah, unfortunately yes. That's one of the downsides to having a well scaped tank -- it makes catching fish a real pain!


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## Iggy Newcastle

I've actually been having success netting fish recently. Feeding time. Doesn't work at all with mouthbrooding mothers, though. 2 for 2 today.


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## FedEXguy

Yeah, I can catch fish like that...just rarely _the_ fish.


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## CjCichlid

Yeah, that was my plan. Lure them out using their feeding time greediness against them! Everyone besides my Syn and Pearsi are surprisingly bold. They always investigate the water changer, as well as my hand and glass cleaner.

I'll have to get another video up as I added a decent amount of leaf litter. It all blew over to the right side of the tank though due to the stronger current on the left.. :?


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## CjCichlid

Here's another short clip focusing mostly on the female C. chet and her spawning site. You can see how different she looks compared to the last video. I used a mirror to look behind the rock as that side is against a wall and I didn't see anything? Not sure if there were eggs and they are now wigglers tucked up under the rock or what... :-?


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## skurj

Torn between going with my RTM species tank... or something similar to this .. arrrggg nvm my Thoricthys staring at me hinting they want to go in the big tank (they can watch me as I can watch them from the pc)... Whichever way I go, I am definitely looking to do something similar with the scaping and lighting.


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## Iggy Newcastle

I like the leaves. If there was a successful spawn, would you siphon out some or let 'nature' take it's course?


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## CjCichlid

skurj, glad my setup can be a source of inspiration! Let us know what you decide on!

Iggy, I've had A. multispinosis, T. meeki and H. nigaraguensis spawn in this community so far and have yet to cull and keep any fry. I really don't have any room to setup fry tanks at the moment so I'll probably let "nature" take it's course yet again. If I was to setup a fry tank, which I've thought about before, it would have to be under my 135 in the stand. Now you got me thinking again... :?


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## FedEXguy

Could you try hanging some breeder nets or those hard plastic breeder boxes in the main tank and letting a handful of fry gain size in those? Then you wouldn't have to do much special except drop food in for them as you're feeding the main tank.


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## CjCichlid

I've considered that before. I think it would work short term, but I don't think I could keep the fry in their long enough to gain enough size to be able to trade them in to my LFS. I'll look into it further though..


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## skurj

Always room in the house for a 15g... surely...


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## ahud

Hey Cj,

My first time working my way through your thread and it was very enjoyable. Great job :thumb: ! You have got me wanting to document my tank, but I can't pull of the nice pictures and video you have 

With the chets, they are not like other Cryptoheros in my opinion. Easily bullied, and once you get to watch them guard fry, you will notice they are not as fierce as convicts or cutteri types. Pairs still work together well, but they don't keep fish away as ruthlessly as say convicts or cutteri. I also noticed some of the same pre spawning behavior you have seen, but mine never did start spawning until I let them be boss of the tank. With that said, I don't think there is a nicer colored cryptohero than a mature pair of chets. As long as they have a nice secure place to guard, they may hunker down and spawn for you though. Just my experience!


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## CjCichlid

skurj said:


> Always room in the house for a 15g... surely...


Hah.. enough with the peer pressure! I have a 40L, 20L, AND 15 just sitting in my basement. :roll: :fish:


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## CjCichlid

ahud said:


> Hey Cj,
> 
> My first time working my way through your thread and it was very enjoyable. Great job :thumb: ! You have got me wanting to document my tank, but I can't pull of the nice pictures and video you have
> 
> With the chets, they are not like other Cryptoheros in my opinion. Easily bullied, and once you get to watch them guard fry, you will notice they are not as fierce as convicts or cutteri types. Pairs still work together well, but they don't keep fish away as ruthlessly as say convicts or cutteri. I also noticed some of the same pre spawning behavior you have seen, but mine never did start spawning until I let them be boss of the tank. With that said, I don't think there is a nicer colored cryptohero than a mature pair of chets. As long as they have a nice secure place to guard, they may hunker down and spawn for you though. Just my experience!


Thanks! Nothing special about my pics and videos though.. Pics are from a point and shoot camera and the vids are taken from my crummy phone that struggles to send a text message! :lol: No reason why you can't share a few pics in the other thread I started -- "Show off your Central American tank!"

I appreciate you sharing your experience with the chets as well. I haven't came across very many people who have kept them so it was nice to hear from someone who has. I'd agree with you in that they are not as aggressive as other Crypto species. I've kept Convicts (who hasn't?), cutteri, and currently have sajica and they are definitely the most docile.


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## CjCichlid

And we have free simming fry! I'll try and get a short video up tomorrow..


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## ahud

Very nice man! How about the breeding dress on those guys, I love it. May post on that thread if I can figure out how to take a decent picture. My pictures and my tanks/fish never look the same lol.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Sweetness.


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## CjCichlid

And here's the video proof! Be sure to watch it HD! :thumb:


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## ahud

Hmm, your chets look totally different from mine. Is the LED giving a washed out coloration? They look like cutteri in the video. Here is a picture of my old pair:
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae17 ... e5b115.jpg


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## CjCichlid

I've looked into that actually and still believe them to be chets. The camera does wash them out a bit but the female is a pretty vivid white/black. I've had C. cutteri before and these definitely look different. These guys are still pretty young as well which I believe may have something to do with it; the male is only 2in. There seems to be a decent amount of variation between the collection points in chets. I purchased them as "Rio Chahal" but not sure if that's the case..?


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## BC in SK

CjCichlid said:


> I purchased them as "Rio Chahal" but not sure if that's the case..?


Pretty much most of what is in the hobby and called _Cryptoheros chetmulensis_ comes from the rio Chahal. The rio Chahal is in Guatamala, south of the Belize border. Schmitter-Soto described _C. chetmulensis_ from a tributary of the rio Hondo in Mexico, north of the Mexican-Belize border. Not certain exactly what range _C. chelmulensis_ has ( :-? ), as I don't think it is really specified by Schmitter-Soto, other then it is considered the most northern of the spilirum-types. If the rio Chahal fish really is _C. chetmulensis_ that would make all the spilirum- types from Belize, _C. chetmulensis_---- a fair range!
Not certain we really even know whether the rio Chahal fish is _Cryptoheros chetmulensis_ or _Cryptoheros spilirus_ ( :-? ) The way they like to split regional variants now days, could even be an undescribed species. Some do question Schmitter-Soto's reclassification of JDs, cons and spilirum......the Cichlid Room Companion lists all his described species as questionable and does not recognize the genus Amatitlania. If I remember correctly, when I read the Schmitter-Soto study in 2007, it claimed a DNA study was supposed to come out in about a years time in support. Never heard anything about it after...I sort of suspect it contradicts the newely described species and genus!


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## CjCichlid

Hah, well the fish geeks are good at making things complicated. Constantly moving species, renaming them, questioning, ect!

Regardless.. I'm fairly confident that what I have are indeed C. chetumalensis -- whether that's really C. spilirus I guess we don't know?

Ahud, although the pic you linked does make your pair look a bit different; this pic of yours looks VERY similar to mine. Breeding dress is almost exact with the barring, ect. My pair are simply quite young still, so I don't believe they have fully colored up yet.


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## BC in SK

CjCichlid said:


> I'm fairly confident that what I have are indeed C. chetumalensis -- whether that's really C. spilirus I guess we don't know?


So the rio Chahal fish as purchased? Otherwise how would you know ( :-? )


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## CjCichlid

Yes.. whatever has been described as C. chetumalensis (rio chahal) is what I believe I have.


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## FedEXguy

Any way you slice it, they're pretty cool looking fish!


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## CjCichlid

Hah, well thanks!

I think I'll be setting up that 15gal after all... Probably won't attempt to save this batch but definitely the next. I could use a quarantine/isolation tank anyway. :fish:


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## ahud

My pair were f1, and were offspring from the fish Eric collected if I am not mistaken.So I'm pretty positive on where mine came from. As far as young fish showing the coloration, I raise some offspring and they too showed the red. There is a huge difference in coloration, its hard to see in my photo. The amount of red and yellow in the spawning dress was very different from the stark black and white. Makes me curious, when talking with some of my fish buds, they always mention chets did not have the red you see in pictures. Makes me wonder if there are either A) two races or B) misidentified fish.

Here is a picture of some of the offspring
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae17 ... b22ef0.jpg


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## CjCichlid

Mine look very similar to that when not in breeding dress. The males have a good amount of red in their fins and the females dorsals have a lot of orange/yellow. From all the pics and vids I've watched of "supposed" C. chets, mine look the part.

In this video at around the 30 second mark you can clearly see what the female looked like before going into full spawning dress. That looks like no C. cutteri or C. spilurus I've seen?


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## CjCichlid

I just google image searched (so you know its right :lol: ) C. chets and spilurus.. You end up getting a hodgepodge of different species.

This definitely isn't the first time this question has been brought up...
http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4996


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## CjCichlid

CjCichlid said:


> In this video at around the 30 second mark you can clearly see what the female looked like before going into full spawning dress. That looks like no C. cutteri or C. spilurus I've seen?


OK.. After a bit of research and scouring through pics online I'm now beginning to think otherwise.. They do look strikingly similar to C. cutteri. Arrgh.. idk? :-?

If this is the case... this really throws a wrench into my plan of having a true Mexican biotope!


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## BC in SK

CjCichlid said:


> If this is the case... this really throws a wrench into my plan of having a true Mexican biotope!


If it is not the rio Chahal fish, I'm not sure how that changes anything :-? 
Since the rio Chahal fish is NOT from Mexico anyways.

Even if _Cryptoheros chetumalensis_ is a valid species, it is sort of questionable if it is found that far south. Since the exact ranges of the 3 described spilirum-types are sort of ambiguous, the rio Chahal species sells better labeled "chetmulensis" then it will labeled a spilirum (a name that has been in the trade for over 30 years).


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## CjCichlid

I wasn't overly concerned with the collection point being 100% accurate, just the SPECIES itself. From what I've read, there are multiple variants/collection points that people are claiming their chets are/from. From what I've read, they can be found in Mexico, Belize, and Guatemala..


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## ahud

uhh, yeah your female looks more like a chet. But the male is throwing me off.


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## CjCichlid

Hah ahh what a headache.. They are all from the same batch so they are the same species whatever they are!


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## CjCichlid

I think I have came to the conclusion that they are not chets.. 

After looking at more pictures than I'd like to admit to and posting on a few other sites.. the consensus seems to be that they are C. cutteri. Thanks to those who brought this to my attention. Goodbye Mexican biotope. Maybe I should keep my C. sajica after all?

Here's a pic I found of a female C. cutteri "Rio Jutiapa" which looks identical to my females..


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## FedEXguy

I think you should keep both, but I'm not a strict biotope person. Of course, if you decide to rehome them at some point, I think I know a guy that would want them. (ps the guy is me)


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## ahud

I lost a pair of cutteri from that location from lympho. They are gorgeous! I say keep them. Chets are cool, but between not spawning as often, and being more timid they are not as fun as other crypts imo.


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## skurj

Dunno what to say.. it sounds like it means a lot to you...

If you are happy with it, keep it... if you aren't..

I seem to remember a time before the internet, information came from books, perhaps ignorance was bliss...


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## CjCichlid

> I seem to remember a time before the internet, information came from books, perhaps ignorance was bliss...


Hah, isn't that the truth!

Ah I'm definitely keeping them! They really are a great looking cichlid, not to mention interesting to watch! As much as I'd like to have a true biotope, it isn't the end of the world. 99% of people would never know the difference anyway!

I got home from dinner tonight to find my pearsei decided to help himself to dinner as well! That's a molly in his mouth! What a glutton!


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## FedEXguy

What size is that pearsei?


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## CjCichlid

He's around 5in.. I've been wondering where my missing Mollies have been going and I guess I found the culprit. I am down to only 4... :?

So much for pearsei being mostly vegetarians!


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## FedEXguy

Yeah, I would not have suspected him, either. I guess you'll have to get some balloon mollies next time!

Just kidding.


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## CjCichlid

Hah.. yeah maybe I'll try some Green Swords instead or go back to Buenos Aires Tetras?

By the way, I'd consider shipping you my C. sajica but it's currently 25F degrees here.


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## FedEXguy

Yeah, it's a balmy 31F here... If you're still wanting to move them come warmer weather, though, I'll take 'em. They are a species I've been wanting to keep for awhile.


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## CjCichlid

So much for warm southern weather!

Not sure I'll hang on to them that long. I have them listed up on a local aquarium club forum, so we'll see if anyone's interested. On another note.. I went ahead and hooked up a spare filter (Mag 250 HOB canister) to the 135 for it to build up a BB colony before setting up the 15gal fry/quarantine tank.


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## FedEXguy

Well, it was fairly warm last week...and might be again next week. You never know down here.


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## ahud

CJ, check out X. mayae. Pretty big swordtail, I doubt they would get eaten.


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## CjCichlid

I actually originally wanted those ahud; I just couldn't find any locally so I caved and went with the Yucatan Mollies.. :roll:


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## Iggy Newcastle

The place I got my swords has X. mayae. They're listed as shy/jumpy in nature.


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## CjCichlid

Hmm.. I'll keep looking locally. How are yours doing Iggy? Any fry yet?

On another note, I have the whole week off for Thanksgiving so I'm going to attempt to re-scape the tank today. Wish me luck. I'm sure it will take me all day.. :roll:


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## ahud

You can look for X. helleri rio otapa as well. The guy I got mine from said they can get just as big as the mayae.


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## CjCichlid

I stopped by my LFS today and they had a nice group of the willd type Green Swords. I'll probably pick up a trio of them tomorrow and see how they do before ordering anything online. Thanks for the heads up though! :thumb:

I started the tank tear down around 3pm and just finished re-aquascaping. Three hours isn't too bad.. is it? :roll:

I'll get some pics up later tonight once everything settles since it's pretty cloudy right now. So far... I'm digging the new look. :drooling:


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## Iggy Newcastle

My swords are doing ok. Lost a couple. Had a jumper and one went into a death spiral of some sort, darting all over. No breeding. Males are still developing their swords. Looking forward to the new scaoe.


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## CjCichlid

Ah, a few losses are to be expected I suppose with a group of young fish. My mollies were dropping fry quite frequently when I first got them but then just kind of stopped? Now I certainly won't have any fry since my H. pearsei decided to eat my only male!

Iggy, I think you'll like this scape better. I added another "rocky outcropping" on the left side, juuust for you! :lol:


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

> Iggy, I think you'll like this scape better. I added another "rocky outcropping" on the left side, juuust for you


Pumped to see it!


----------



## CjCichlid

Sorry guys, pics will be up tomorrow.. ended up having to do a water change. :?

Think I will siphon out the remaining C. cutteri fry as well. Somehow they managed to keep a decent number of fry during the rescape and their aggression is just building by the hour. Everyone is taking a beating from them. It's crazy how two little two inch fish can claim half of a 6ft tank!


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## ahud

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:


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## CjCichlid

Patience young grasshoppers!


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## CjCichlid

Allllrighty, here we are! Had to wait until it got dark to take a decent picture...










Overall I am pretty happy with the scape. I could use a few more smaller rocks and pebbles to scatter around the larger rocks to make it look a bit more natural. Some of the larger rocks look pretty "sterile" as well due to rearranging them. Once they begin to grow diatoms and algae it should look a bit better.

I decided not to remove the C. sajica so the stock is still the same. However I did drop by the LFS and grabbed 6 more Mollies; so I now have a total of 10 again (2M, 8F). I had planned on picking up the Green Swords I saw yesterday but of course -- they were gone.

Let me know what you guys think.. likes, dislikes, ect. :fish:


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## FedEXguy

I like it so much that I'm just going to have to insist I get a video of it, too.


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## CjCichlid

Hah ahh I suppose.. if you insist.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Looks great Chris. Well done. Love me some rocks...


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## skurj

Yep looking good :thumb:


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## CjCichlid

Thanks guys! I'll try and get a video up soon..


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## ahud

That tank screams thorichthys to me lol.


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## CjCichlid

Hah, I see why you say that. Ever since I lost my A. robertsoni I've been wanting some sort of another "earth eater". If I come across a group of T. pasionis or maculipinnis I am grabbing them!


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## BC in SK

CjCichlid said:


> I wasn't overly concerned with the collection point being 100% accurate, just the SPECIES itself.


I don't mean to side track the thread but I am not quite understanding exactly what your aiming for.
From what I gather you want species that are actually found together in the wild.(?) But are not necessarily originally collected from the very same body of water.

Even by that standard, any 'spilirum-type', regardless if it is a chet, cutteri, spilirum or what ever it may be called, will always be sort of an "oddball" in your stock list, anyways. Waters flowing into the gulf of Honduras and waters flowing into the gulf of Mexico is a dividing line for some of your stock list. Around the southern Mexican border is the very northern most range for any 'spilirum-type'.
I do not believe Argentea nor pearsi are found with any 'spilirum-type'. Nor are the 2 Thorichthys species you are considering.
If you want fish found with _Cryptoheros spilirum_ (or _Crytoheros chetmulansis_), look at fishes listed for Belize.


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## CjCichlid

I simply wanted all of the species to be from the country of MEXICO. Hence why I said I wanted a MEXICAN biotope. I was not concerned with the fishes exact collection point or body of water.. just as long as it was native/endemic to MEXICO. End of story. Not sure what you're not understanding.. nor why it really matters at this point? :-?

I referenced this list when putting together a list of species..
http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Mexico.htm

As per the list, all of my intended final stock at the time is native/endemic to MEXICO. However, I am no longer concerned with keeping to that list now that my supposed chets turned out to be cutteri.. so it is all moot now.

Oh.. and Happy Thanksgiving everyone! :fish:


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## BC in SK

I understand now.... a Mexican theme. 
By the term biotope I thought you were wanting fish that are actually found together.


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## CjCichlid

Hah, touche'. I have found many use the word "biotope" differently. Some will simply pick a region and say a "Central American biotope".. which is obviously a very loose use of the word. Others narrow it down to a country -- as I did. And then others, such as yourself, narrow it down to a specific body of water.

I hope you're satisfied! :wink:


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

The AGA holds a 'biotope' category contest each year. There are some amazing set ups entered, most of which are not true biotopes. At times, the judges will even comment on this stating that certain entries are not biotope specific. Even so, some of these entries still place first, second and third.

Here's a link to 13 years of entries. Some unbelievable planted tanks as we'll.
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org


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## CjCichlid

Great link Iggy. I visit that site regularly for inspiration. Some seriously awesome aquascapes are submitted there!


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## skurj

Yup awesome link! I didn't realize they had the biotopes as well, thought it was mostly gardening :zz:


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## CjCichlid

I have a video uploading and processing on youtube now so I should have it up later today..

A few random observations and thoughts..

-That new driftwood stained the **** out of my water! I've been doing daily 25% water changes to try and keep up with the tannins..

-The cutteri are amazing parents. This is the longest I have had fry last in this community (still haven't siphoned them out). With that said, they are pretty relentless on the others and have claimed over half the tank as you'll see in the video.

-I still feel like I am in search for that one species that can live in close proximity to one another (as I want a group) and be able to spawn and not completely terrorize my tank. As of now, I am thinking T. pasionis might be the answer? A. multispinosa fits the bill except they are TOO docile. I need something that can still hold it's own when it comes to the big guys. I don't think any species of Crypto is the answer either.. maybe chets would have worked but who knows? My LFS has a decent amount of C. nanoluteus in stock which I've thought about but I don't know?


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## CjCichlid

Don't forget to watch it in HD!


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## ahud

For Central Americans, you are limited to Thorichthys and Archocentrus for fish that will live in groups IN THE AQUARIUM, in my opinion. Cryptoheros are too aggressive when spawning, they only work out while they are young. Nanos would be a poor choice imo, they are timid fish and I think you would have a tough time getting them to spawn regularly.

The trick with Thorichthys is structure, structure, and structure. Because the pairs will claim as much territory as possible, where as multispinosus seems to be content with a small space. I don't know how this will change when you have multiple pairs of thors, it may help some. But with your big fish, thats going to be tough. You don't have a lot of room for spawning pairs considering the big fish need some room to move around. Plus, adding a lot more cover makes it really hard to pull off a good scape.


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## CjCichlid

I completely agree ahud.

I am beginning to come to the conclusion that there are a couple things that make communities with pairs work best with the least amount of drama.. and unfortunately I do not like doing those particular things!

- Having a heavily stocked tank to disperse aggression. However, I do not like the look of a densely stocked tank as I think it detracts from the tank as a whole, as well as diminishes the natural behavior of a lot of fish. When fish are crammed together they simply do not act the same as if they were in a lightly stocked tank with room to swim, forage, and claim their own territories.

- The use of artificial objects to scape the tank.. ie: pots, ornaments, large fake plants, cichlid stones, ect. These all help tremendously when creating line of sight breaks, as well as creating smaller individual territories for pairs to claim. When using natural objects such as large boulders and pieces of driftwood, the fish try and claim the entire piece of driftwood or the entire outcropping of rocks instead of sticking to a single pot or cichlid stone.

And the problem we all have.. simply not a large enough footprint! If I had an 8-10ft 300gal I am almost positive I could pull off a setup with multiple pairs of CA's while creating a naturalistic aquascape.

I'll continue to keep my eye out for some T. pasionis. If I do come across some, I will sell off all the Crypto's.


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## ahud

You and I are very similar in what we like. A lot of playing with communities is trial and error. Who knows, those big fish you have may even work in your favor and convince a thorichthys type to claim less space? I have only kept a couple of species that grow over 5", so I can't comment much on how the big guys change things.

I like T. pasionis a great deal, I just wish they stayed smaller. My holy grail fish is Thorichthys socolofi, I think they would work extremely well in groups. The problem is finding them.


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## CjCichlid

Agreed. Ever since I first set my 135gal up it has been nothing but trial and error and I can honestly say I have learned quite a lot.

As for the big guys, I think that is actually my problem right now. They aren't quite big enough yet for the Crypto's not to try and intimidate them. If all three were 6+ inches I think the tanks dynamics would be pretty different. My pearsei, which is currently the largest at around 5in doesn't take the pair of cutteri too seriously. He more or less just kind of looks at them like.. "really?"

T. socolofi are indeed a great looking fish, but like you, I have yet to come across any. I guess they are suppose to be the mildest of the Thorichthys complex and prefer cooler waters as well?


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## ahud

Agreed, it will be interesting once your "big fish" get some size on them. I think it will help some, but I doubt cutteri or a similar Cryptohero would be intimidated. Maybe a fish like honduran red points or chets would be. Thorichthys would be, I LOVE the meeki from Rio subin. T. socolofi is an attractive fish for all of the reasons you stated. Small, mild, and from what I read don't claim large breeding territories. The only negative is there sensitivity, but I can't speak on that.

I say keep doing what your doing, trying new fish and enjoying it.


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## zimmy

Iggy Newcastle said:


> The AGA holds a 'biotope' category contest each year. There are some amazing set ups entered, most of which are not true biotopes. At times, the judges will even comment on this stating that certain entries are not biotope specific. Even so, some of these entries still place first, second and third.
> 
> Here's a link to 13 years of entries. Some unbelievable planted tanks as we'll.
> http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org


Wow! The biotope tanks are incredible. I'm going to be late for work this morning as I go through each year.


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## CjCichlid

ahud said:


> Agreed, it will be interesting once your "big fish" get some size on them. I think it will help some, but I doubt cutteri or a similar Cryptohero would be intimidated. Maybe a fish like honduran red points or chets would be. Thorichthys would be, I LOVE the meeki from Rio subin. T. socolofi is an attractive fish for all of the reasons you stated. Small, mild, and from what I read don't claim large breeding territories. The only negative is there sensitivity, but I can't speak on that.
> 
> I say keep doing what your doing, trying new fish and enjoying it.


I really do miss my pair of T. meeki as they turned out to be real lookers. I only had one spawn from them however and it was not in my 135. I had moved everyone into a divided 40gal long while I was moving last year and they decided to spawn then. They were constantly going through the motions in the 135gal but never went through with it. I think the community setting was simply to busy for them to feel secure enough. If they would have spawned however, I feel they would have been just as aggro as my cutteri and nics as the female was a complete b.i.t.c.h. :lol:

Now that I am not concerned about keeping in tune with only Mexican species, HRP's do suddenly sound appealing. I'd love some more blue in my tank..


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## CjCichlid

Anyone have any experience keeping any of the Astatheros species in groups? I know some of them can be pretty brutal on each other, but how about something like a group of 2m/4f?


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## CjCichlid

Well I just finished doing a water change and decided to finally siphon out the remaining 20+ fry. Not going to lie, I felt kind of bad afterwards watching the parents search every nook and cranny looking for their fry.


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## skurj

Hey Cj.. I admit to not reading every post you've made.. but 

WHat fish have you combined and had success or otherwise with in the 135?

I think my intentions are a bit of a dream... in a 6ft x 2 x 2 could 2 pairs of the smaller CA's coexist alongside some 2-3 larger tankmates? 
Smaller CA pairs = thoricthys, salvini, convict, rainbow, bartoni?


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## CjCichlid

Hah no worries..

I've honestly really have had little aggression and pretty much everyone has gotten along -- up until a pair spawns. That is what causes the drama. Once the pair spawn and are guarding fry they become hyper aggressive. This in turn causes the rest of the stock to be confined to only half of the tank; which then causes more drama as they are all so close to one another. Kind of a domino effect.

Having multiple pairs in a 180 is completely feasible. You just need to pick the correct species AND have the tank laid out in such a way to create many "mini" territories. It really is all trial and error, as what did/didn't work for me could turn out completely opposite for you.

From the list you provided above, I think the best bet for compatible pairs would be Thorichthys and Rainbows. Also look into some of the Astatheros species. From my experience, Salvini's are pretty nasty (I had a lone female). Most Cryptoheros species get pretty aggro when there are free swimming fry around as well. I suppose you could simply remove the eggs or fry once they spawn but I feel this defeats the purpose or having pairs as you won't get to see the parental care.


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## zimmy

Would swordtails work as dithers with pairs of Thorichthys and Rainbows? I can get T. Meekis and Rainbows so I'm wondering about going with this combination for my 5 ft, 112G.

I totally agree with the preferences you outlined earlier of not wanting to pack fish into a tank or having artificial objects to scape the tank.


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## CjCichlid

zimmy, swords or mollies should work well with that stock. :thumb:


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## zimmy

I keep reading that mollies are from brackish water and are prone to illness when kept in freshwater. Have you had any problems with them around this issue?


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## CjCichlid

Some mollies are found in brackish water but it is not necessary to keep them that way. When I first was contemplating them I was worried about that as well as many sources suggested that. I'm no livebearer expert but I can almost guarantee you that the majority of people keep them in fresh, not to mention the LFS you buy them from (and all the molly species that are found next to cichlids in the wild!). I have Yucatan Mollies and they've done great in my hard city water.


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## CjCichlid

Put together a short video last night before/during feeding time. Notice their food aggression, especially my syn! Be sure to watch in HD! :fish:


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## Iggy Newcastle

Looks great man. I think I can tell the big boys are growing.


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## CjCichlid

Thanks Iggy. The gang are definitely putting on some size. They seem to grow in spurts..


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## FedEXguy

Always a pleasure to watch your videos. Interesting how your fish wait to feed off the bottom. All of mine come to the top, even though my pellets sink.


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## CjCichlid

They'll feed from the surface as well, it just depends on what I am feeding them. In that vid I fed Omega One Super Veggie pellets which sink almost immediately. If I feed say, freeze dried krill, they will all come to the surface.


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## CjCichlid

Dropped by my LFS, as I do on every other Thursday (it's when they get new stock), and picked up five more mollies and some "guppy grass". Figured I'd give my syn and pearsei something to destroy. The splash of green looks great but I better take a picture quick because the feast/destruction has already begun!


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## CjCichlid

Quick pic I snapped of both the syn and pearsei munching down! opcorn:


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## zimmy

Great photo (and video)! Thanks for posting them. Too bad the guppy grass likely won't survive. It definitely enhances an already amazing looking tank.

What kind of LED spotlight are you using on the right side? It's a great effect.


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## CjCichlid

Thanks zimmy. The light on the right side is just a 10 watt LED floodlight I got off Ebay.


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## CjCichlid

A quick update.. the guppy grass is nearly gone! I knew they would eat it, but dang! I even saw them crapping it out already! Talk about a fast metabolism!


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## ahud

hahaha. You need something less appetizing! First time actually watching your video in HD, it makes it a lot better! Enjoyed it.


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## CjCichlid

HD is a must, hence why I always have the reminder!

I think the next plant I'll add will be romaine lettuce leaves! :lol:


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## CjCichlid

Little update..

Looks like my "mystery" Crypto pair are looking to spawn again. They have been showing a lot of pre-spawn behavior and are digging out a new spot over on the right side again. Every time a do a water change it seems to fire them up, as they will constantly court each other and color up mid water change. I call them "mystery" Crypto's because I am back to being unsure on what they truly are. My dominant female has been showing a ton of orange, with almost her entire dorsal orange and vivid orange spots directly behind her pectoral fins.

Everyone else is doing well too, with the big guys seeming to be going through a growth spurt. Now that I've had my spare filter running for a few weeks I will be setting up the 15gal soon. I'm planning to net out my pair of C. sajica first and trade them in once I get both of them in the 15gal. I'll then net out the extra three male "mystery" Cryptos, and trade them in as well once I round them all up. I'm basically going to use the 15gal as a holding tank so I can catch everyone one by one, saving me the trouble of tearing down the entire setup to net them all at once.

After that is all said and done, I'll have just the three big boys and four (2M/2F) of the "mystery" Cryptos. The stock will probably stay that way until I come across a group of Thorichthys that I like. I'll then grow them out a bit in the 15gal depending on their size before adding them to the community.


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## CjCichlid

Just realized my tank had a little write up on it on the front page, pretty cool! Thanks for the recognition! 

Meant to post this the other day when I took it but forgot. Just a short clip of me doing a water change, along with some festive xmas music to get you in the spirit!

Be sure to watch it in HD!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Yea I saw that write up. Pretty sweet!

That new driftwood piece is massive.


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## CjCichlid

Hah, yeah it's bigger than it looks. A lot of it becomes hidden from shadows and the overall darkness of most of the videos.


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## CjCichlid

I just realized that yesterday marked exactly two years since I started this thread! 

It's crazy to see how much the tank has evolved over the past two years. I think it's mostly due to my increased interest and overall knowledge. I have learned a ton not only through a lot of reading and research, but also through lots of trial and error! I've kept a good number of different species and combinations -- some worked, some did not -- but it's sure been a fun and interesting journey! Thanks to those who have contributed to this thread and kept it alive! :thumb:


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## pablo111

That is an awesome tank!


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## CjCichlid

pablo111 said:


> That is an awesome tank!


Thanks!


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## Iggy Newcastle

opcorn: Here's to 2 more years....


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## CjCichlid

Hah, cheers to that! I will say I have been getting the itch to setup an Amazon themed tank.. Geos, a few oddball plecos, and a massive school of tetras! I'll save that for when I upgrade to an 8ft tank!


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## CjCichlid

I plan on posting up a video later this evening so I figured I'd go ahead and write up a quick little update on this gloomy Sunday..

Nothing has yet to change stock wise as I still have yet to get my 15gal setup! :? I WILL getting it up and running over the Holiday break as my filter is definitely well established at this point. I did unfortunately run into a small outbreak of ich somehow.. guessing it came from the batch of mollies I recently added. Nothing serious.. just a spot or two on the occasional fish. I cranked up the heat a bit last week and have been upping the salinity over the past couple days. I haven't seen any more signs of it but I'll keep the heat and salt up for another week just to be on the safe side. That's what I get for not QT'ing fish! Just more incentive to get that 15gal up I suppose..

My pair of mystery Crypto's have yet to spawn again. I thought for sure they would have by now but they seem to just enjoy flirting with each other; as well as punking the occasional fish that strays to close to their proposed spawning site.

I also came across some Ameca splendens at my LFS that I think I will pick up once the 15gal is up. I'd grab them now but I'd like to QT them before adding them into the community. I've never kept Goodeid's before but am curious to see how they fare with the others. I guess they can be quite boisterous?

Once the sun sets -- which is like at 5pm these days! -- I'll put together a video and get it posted up!


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## CjCichlid

Enjoy! :fish:


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## Iggy Newcastle

How did you get that steady shot when you pan the tank? Thought you were using your phone.

Enjoyed the video, as usual Chris. Nice music choice.


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## CjCichlid

Thanks Iggy. I am indeed using my phone.. I have a SUPER steady hand! Ah.. not really. YouTube has a stabilizing editing tool.


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## ahud

Personally, I'd steer clear of Ameca splendens. To be blunt, they are A holes. My group were relentless with a group of juvenile brichardi, constantly driving them into the rockpiles. The A. splendens even picked on some regular ole convicts. Of course the convicts were not bothered, but dither/target fish are not supposed to pick fights! They were just too feisty for my tastes. Maybe others have had better experience with them.

An awesome livebearer would be Alfaro cultratus, they looked awesome and were the most agile/atheletic livebearer I have ever seen. I want those again some day!


----------



## CjCichlid

Thanks for the input ahud, I'll reconsider. I have heard similar stories so I don't doubt it one bit. I just saw something "different" that was CA and thought they may be cool to try. I'll just stick with my Yucatan Mollies! I just wish some of their fry would survive to help populate the tank. My argentea has taken a liking to stalking and laming them when the lights go off. Not sure where the wounded go as his mouth is far to small to eat one. Maybe my pearsei is cleaning them up?

Another quick note.. I am more convinced each day that I do indeed have C. chetumalensis. The females are just showing soo much orange..


----------



## ahud

You need to pull the gravid females to another tank or container.

You may have C. chets. I'm not that great with ID's. I'm too subjective.


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## CjCichlid

Yeah I'm going to keep a small harem in the 15gal permanently and hopefully I get some fry that way.

If you could see the Crypto's in person I think you'd see what I am talking about. My dominant female looks 99.6% chet..


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## CjCichlid

Took this earlier today..

I have been putting in pieces of cucumber and zucchini lately for my BN pleco and the others have taken a liking to it as well.. especially my pearsei. I thought it was funny how the syn would try to sneak around to grab a few bites just to have the pearsei chase him off. Greedy little bugger!

As always, watch in HD!





Hope everyone is having/had a good Christmas!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Thought I was watching a video of myself at Christmas morning...


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## CjCichlid

Hah.. Well I must have been a good boy this year because Santa was good to me! I got a GoPro Hero3+ which means the quality of my videos are going to be getting a TON better! I may even get real crazy and take some underwater shots eh?


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## CjCichlid

Messed around with my GoPro tonight and took a short video. It came out pretty good, the fish no longer look like black blobs and everything is pretty true to color. No fancy camera work yet, just a simple full tank clip..

Enjoy! opcorn: 





Also, did a water change this AM and found my Crypto pair guarding eggs again. They must have spawned last night. Christmas fry?


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## FedEXguy

Just going to say again, that your tank is nice nice nice. And your new camera is practically begging for an underwater video.


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## CjCichlid

Hah, thanks FedEx. I'll get some underwater footage soon. In the meantime, I'm still trying to wear off that "new" feeling. Maybe once I drop it or scratch it I'll be willing to dunk it in water? :lol:


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## Iggy Newcastle

Huge difference! I can actually see the mollies!


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## ahud

Very nice!

I'm on the fence on getting a gopro. I wanted to film white water rafting, road biking, and skiing, but also be able to use it as a regular recorder. But I can't decide since it uses such a wide angle lense. Let me know how you like yours! I'm impressed with the video, looks great!


----------



## CjCichlid

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Huge difference! I can actually see the mollies!


Hah, I know! Before they were these dark little phantom fish that you'd occasionally get a glimpse of!



ahud said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I'm on the fence on getting a gopro. I wanted to film white water rafting, road biking, and skiing, but also be able to use it as a regular recorder. But I can't decide since it uses such a wide angle lense. Let me know how you like yours! I'm impressed with the video, looks great!


I've wanted one for a while. I'm glad I waited though as they've only gotten better. The 3+ is literally half the size of the original Hero HD. It also has WiFi so you can download a free app on your phone and control everything as well as see what your filming as the app has a viewfinder. Pretty freakin cool..

I plan on using mine mostly for mountain biking and motorcycle riding; wish I had it when I broke my collar bone! The wide view lens may not be the BEST for everyday filming but you can adjust the view from wide, medium, or narrow. I recorded this film on medium. As you can see the tank does look a bit bowed but it doesn't really effect the way anything looks.


----------



## ahud

I was not aware that you can change angles. The video does look good, but the downside is you don't have many options for different shots. If you bike a lot it will be great for you! Sadly, I skii twice a year and raft twice a year, the rest of the time I am on a road bike and as much as I like it, its not very exciting lol. I guess it would be nice to have me spraying a dog with pepper spray on video, but that happens once a year at best!

Man that pearsei is looking great!


----------



## CjCichlid

Yeah I try and mnt bike at least twice a week when the weather allows it. It would be pretty awesome to record whitewater rafting. I've been a couple times and it was a blast!

And I know, isn't my pearsei a looker?! I've been wanting to show him off but every time I took a vid he'd look like a black blob!


----------



## CjCichlid

Hope everyone had a good New Years! I'll be honest.. I don't recall most of the night. :roll:

Anyways.. my tank has turned into a bit of a battle ground over the past couple days. My pair of Cryptos spawned and brought out the fry yesterday, quite the swarm and probably double the number of their last spawn. On top of that, my one other female Crypto has seemed to have paired up with one of the males, and they are now both in pre-spawning colors. So, it's a bit chaotic in there at the moment..

In other news, my lovely girlfriend surprised me with a Current Sat+ fixture for Christmas! Not only that, but for some reason they sent her two 48" fixtures for the price of one! :dancing: I highly doubt I'll be using them both as they are quite a bit brighter than my Beamswork fixtures. I'll try and get a video up soon..


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## Iggy Newcastle

> Hope everyone had a good New Years! I'll be honest.. I don't recall most of the night


Sounds like a good time! I spent the night enjoying a few Sierra Nevadas and playing Scrabble. The game ended when I threw my pieces... Yea I'm a sore loser.

Congrats on the continued spawning!

Great Christmas gift. If you don't want that other fixture I'm sure you could find someone on the forum willing to take it for free...


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## CjCichlid

Scrabble huh? Sounds like a pretty crazy New Years Eve! :lol:

I'm sure the novelty of this new Current Sat+ fixture will wear off.. but I'm sitting here really getting a kick out of going through all the different settings and what not. I'm probably going to give my fish seizures.. :roll:


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## CjCichlid

Ok.. just wanted to do a quick review on the Current Sat+ fixture that I recently got.

So far, I love it! Once I got it out of the box I immediately thought it looked of higher quality than my Beamswork (which makes sense as it was more $$$). It is also easily a quarter smaller width wise, if not more. Compared to my Beamswork "freshwater bright" fixture, it's quite a bit brighter as well -- to the point where it's TOO bright for my tastes when everything is maxed out. However, that's the beauty of this fixture. If it's too bright.. too red.. too blue.. ect. you can completely customize it, by remote might I add! (which is such a relief as I was really getting tired of having to get off my azz to turn the lights on/off :lol: ) It also produces more "shimmer" than my Beamswork, which I think is due to the fact that it has fewer LEDs that are brighter.

As far as all the settings go, they are pretty sweet as well. I doubt I'll ever use the "thunderstorm settings", however I like the different moonlight and cloud cover settings. Also worth mentioning is that my fish look great under this light. I knew my Beamswork fixture was washing out the warmer colors (reds, oranges, yellows) but wow, my H. pearsei's fins look incredibly red under the full spectrum lighting. :drooling:

I hope to get a video up within the next couple of days, so stay tuned! :fish:

Also wanted to mention that I FINALLY got my 15gal QT tank up and running. Made a stop at the LFS this evening and walked out with a pair of Xenotoca eiseni (aka Red/Orange tailed goodeid). They are currently in the 15gal and I may just keep them in there to keep the tank cycled when I am not QT'ing fish. We shall see.. they may make there way into the 135 -- after all they are from Mexico.


----------



## FedEXguy

I have the same lights, and I love them! I find I usually leave them on the cloudy evening setting or a custom one just a bit brighter because I like dimmer tanks. I really only turn them up bright when I'm looking at the tank during the day (as there's a large window in the room.) Excellent lights and I don't think I'd go a different route in the foreseeable future. Of course, I can't speak to their longevity, so I could be resending my praise one day, but I doubt it. They look quality.

And as a side note, I'll be upgrading to an 8' tank in the future (whenever I get off my bum and build a stand and hood.) So, ya know, I'll probably be needing to buy a second fixture...hint hint wink nudge.


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## CjCichlid

Yeah, I am really liking all the different looks you can achieve.

I will say for those who are considering this fixture.. the white LED's are 6500k and much "yellower" compared to the 10k white LEDs on the Beamswork or Marineland fixtures. I personally like the 6500k as it is a much more natural colored light; however I know many prefer the 10k look which you will not achieve with this fixture, regardless of what setting you turn it to.


----------



## CjCichlid

Just wanted to share a quick update as I witnessed some interesting behavior last night..

My unpaired female C. chet (or cutteri..?) that has been flirting with all the other males decided to lash out last night. She basically raided the nest of the pair of C. chets that were guarding fry and kicked out the female. She is now paired up with the male and is looking to spawn as her tube is showing. While all this was happening, all the others decided to partake and completely wiped out the remaining fry. So, my pair has broken up.. yet a new pair has formed (same male different female). Quite interesting to watch and I wish I could have gotten it on camera!

I'll be interested to see if the now unpaired female will pair with a different male?.. as I have a 5m:2f ratio.

No video yet but I will get one up soon!


----------



## CjCichlid

So I got a new phone the other day and realized the camera was a ton better than on my old phone.. Took about 20 pics and got two barely respectable pics. I'll sit down and try to get some better ones later.

V. argentea with one of the female C. chets(?) in the background..









H. pearsei.. He photo bombs every picture and refuses to stay still.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

Nice pics. Both beautiful. What phone?


----------



## CjCichlid

Thanks Adam. My new phone is a LG G2.. I'm not an Apple fan. :roll:


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

My Samsung S4 has a ridiculous camera as well, but not so great for fast moving fish... What's Apple?


----------



## CjCichlid

Mine has a bunch of different modes.. I used the burst mode for the two I posted. You hold down the shutter and it takes like 20 pics. "Sport" mode worked OK as well if the fish was relatively stationary. If I was more patient I could have gotten some higher quality pics.. :roll:

And Apple.. its a fruit. I often times enjoy them sliced and dipped in peanut butter. :thumb:


----------



## CjCichlid

Lured this little lady out after a water change with some cucumber.. (disregard the scratches :? )









Hoping to get a video up later tonight to show off the new Sat+ lighting..


----------



## FedEXguy

Nice picture! That phone camera's picking up the details pretty nicely.


----------



## skurj

ok ok, the sat+ looks to be a decent light, disappointed no timer and no hanging kit, but I can get around those issues... just the price... arg.. lfs has a sizeable credit in my name which I will likely spend on a light, thankfully they carry these but they are not a cheap lfs... the 48" will cost me over $300 after taxes


----------



## CjCichlid

FedEXguy said:


> Nice picture! That phone camera's picking up the details pretty nicely.


I know, pretty impressive for a phone! Did you see the other two pics of my pearsei and argentea on the previous page?



> the 48" will cost me over $300 after taxes


Uhh.. you can get the 48" fixture for $120 on Amazon, $300 is ridiculous.


----------



## FedEXguy

CjCichlid said:


> I know, pretty impressive for a phone! Did you see the other two pics of my pearsei and argentea on the previous page?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the 48" will cost me over $300 after taxes
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh.. you can get the 48" fixture for $120 on Amazon, $300 is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, looking good! And yeah, I got my lights on Amazon, too. Much cheaper.


----------



## CjCichlid

Alright I finally got the video uploaded. Now that I am uploading 1080p clips is takes much longer to upload and edit on YouTube. Not really happy with the way the video came out as it looks a bit grainy and just blah. The lighting isn't really true to what it looks like in person either. Next time I'll have to change the settings on my GoPro for different lighting intensities to get better quality.. :roll:

I only went through a few of the different settings, here's the order:
1. Dawn/dusk with gentle cloud cover
2. Full spectrum (100% intensity)
3. Fading moon lighting with a bit of cloud cover
4. Soft, fading blue moonlight
5. Dawn/dusk again..
6. Bright white sunlight with rolling cloud cover through various color spectrums

Be sure to watch in 1080p HD!


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

Well you're really selling me on this light... Enjoyed the video, as usual.

Why does it look as if you have a bowfront tank?


----------



## CjCichlid

Thanks Iggy. The Sat+ fixture is great and everything really does look better in person..

The tank looks bowed because of the extra wide angle lens the GoPro has..


----------



## skurj

I'm pretty much sold on the light, the effects are cool and all though I doubt I will play with them. I'll likely find a setting I like and leave it that way. Eventually I am going to add a controller I think so it can be the timer, and look after the heaters as well. Music reminded me of EVE at first..


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

Is it the freshwater model? Found it for $80.


----------



## CjCichlid

Yeah I tend to leave it at the 6500k/Rose pink setting as it seems to bring the fish's colors out the best..

I plan on grabbing another batch of Yucatan Mollies this week so I went ahead and moved my pair of Redtailed Goodieds from the 15gal into the 135gal (so I can quarantine the mollies). The pair seems to be settling in well..
Here's a pic of the male:


----------



## CjCichlid

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Is it the freshwater model? Found it for $80.


The Satellite fixture? Its the Freshwater+. The standard Satellite fixtures are not RGB and do not have a controller. I bet that is what you were looking at.. the cheapest I have found the 48" Freshwater+ model is $120.


----------



## skurj

Yeah I can't order from Amazon.com and get those prices they all won't deliver to Canada.. I have to order through amazon.ca , and there are no sellers of that light on the Canadian site..


----------



## FedEXguy

Does DrsFosterandSmith ship to Canada? If all else fails, I bet I could buy it and ship it to Canada for cheaper than $300.


----------



## skurj

Yes I think they do, but I would be dinged for oversized shipping, then brokerage fees from the **** couriers.. I need to sign up for a us mailing address, only about 2hr drive..


----------



## CjCichlid

Well my "new" pair (same male, different female) of C. chetumalensis(?) spawned today. This female chose a different spot than the last female. This is now my third spawn in total from these guys..

Female and eggs. You can only see some of the eggs as most of them are under the rock..


----------



## FedEXguy

Took me way too long to see those...I was looking on the wrong side of the rock. Congrats, though.


----------



## CjCichlid

Hah guess I should have maybe hinted to where exactly the eggs were?

On another note.. I was feeding everyone this morning and started to notice how different the group of 7x Cryptoheros are from each other. I know everyone's probably tired of hearing me talk about what they really are, but damnit, it's driving me crazy! I first noticed how different the two females look from each other. One is very high bodied, while the other is much more elongated. The higher bodied female looks much more cutteri to me and lacks any real orange; while the elongated female is the original female that first spawned and shows lots of orange in both her finnage and her body. The same goes for the males.. some are high bodied, others are elongated. The higher bodied males show more blue spangles while the elongated males are much more yellow bodied and have some orange in their dorsals. Could it be that I got a hodgepodge of both C. chets and cutteri? :-?


----------



## ahud

I'm not sure you will ever know that. I know it is annoying, but with Cryptoheros everything looks similar to begin with. Trying to pick out subtle differences is tough. If a fish bothers me, they get the ax (actually freezer or sold). You could always start with another group. In my opinion, it should bother us and kudos to you for actually caring about whats swimming around in your tank.

Then again, you could actually have one species.


----------



## CjCichlid

Where yah been ahud?!

Hah, I almost found your post to be reassuring.. until I read the last sentence.  :lol:


----------



## ahud

lol, well regardless if a fish bothers me (wrong ID, I can't cure it, weird markings, etc) it gets frozen. I'm not passing it on, and I'm not wasting money and space feeding it. So if they bother you, make a change man!


----------



## CjCichlid

Did a water change this afternoon and snapped a quick pic of the pair guarding the eggs. You can see how they've dug out a pit around the rock. Excuse the extremely crummy quality.. :roll:


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

> Excuse the extremely crummy quality..


Completely unacceptable :lol:

Took me awhile to find the eggs in that pic as well.

I'm with ahud on his standpoint. Not knowing what you have is tough to deal with. I have a group of African mbuna P. Elegans 'acei'. I don't know if the collection point is Luwala or Msuli Point. I'll never know. They just look too similar. It drives me nuts. Thought about moving them on and starting fresh with an identified group, but they're settled in, spawning and tough to part with. I couldn't bring myself to destroy them, though.

Good luck with your decision on the Cryptos...


----------



## skurj

I still haven't found the eggs... got a full shot of one of those fish in their colours?


----------



## CjCichlid

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Completely unacceptable :lol:


   

Iggy, it is quite frustrating indeed. I think I may try and move on all of my Crypto's (sajica included) once I get a group of Thorichthys. I'll most likely just trade them in to the LFS. I'm not quite as heartless as ahud. :lol: I don't think I could stick them in the freezer.. :?



skurj said:


> I still haven't found the eggs... got a full shot of one of those fish in their colours?


 :lol: Move a little closer to the computer screen! In the second pic, look to the bottom right of the rock in the center, the wood is almost acting as a frame for them.. they are the little round yellow things. I'll try and get some profile pics of the Cryptos.. they just never stop moving. :fish:


----------



## CjCichlid

More pics of the pair.. Not quite as crummy this time either! 



















Think I am going to pull the eggs today. I'm waking up to way too many tattered fins over the past couple of days. :?


----------



## skurj

That white is gorgeous. Don't you risk more aggression if you pull the eggs? or is it the tankmates getting nipped?


----------



## CjCichlid

Thanks skurj. It's the others in the community that I was referring too. Pulling the eggs may cause some drama between the pair but nothing to really be worried about. It would most likely be a different story however if the two were in their own tank.


----------



## FedEXguy

Wow, that white! You could go snowblind looking at those beauts!


----------



## CjCichlid

Hah, gee you guys are really persuading me to get rid of them! :roll:


----------



## CjCichlid

Well I failed to remove the eggs before they turned into wigglers so now I suppose I'll just wait until they go free swimming again. The female moved the wigglers in a hard to reach area otherwise I'd do it now..

Also, I traded in the pair of Redfin Goodeids today for a few more Mollies. Turned out they were fin nippers after all. They were quite sneaky about it as well as I only witnessed them doing it once the lights went out.. so ahud, I suppose you can go ahead and tell me you told me so. :roll:

Just finished up doing a water change so once everything settles I'll attempt to maybe take a few more sub-par pics.. :fish:


----------



## CjCichlid

Alright, I said screw taking pics and just put together a quick phone vid of the evening feeding. Be sure to watch until the END for the guest appearance! :wink:

WATCH IN 1080HD!





Hope I'm not the only one who found this vid a bit funny.. opcorn:


----------



## FedEXguy

Everytime I see your sajica, I wish I had them :thumb: 
And I won't spoil the ending, but nice looking *spoiler* you got there!


----------



## CjCichlid

Hah thanks. It's too bad you are so far away otherwise I'd give them to you! The male got tagged pretty good by the breeding pair a few days ago, so I'm hoping his caudal fin heals up alright.


----------



## CjCichlid

Well the fry finally went free swimming last night. Took longer than usual this time around, however I think it was due to the water temp as I am keeping it a bit cooler than I was previously.

Took this video this morning during a water change. Siphoned them out shortly after as well.. I'm getting lazy so this video is completely unedited..


----------



## CjCichlid

Quick update..

The mystery Cryptos are GONE. I stuck them all in the freezer.. Nah just kidding. I traded them into my LFS today. Those little buggers are crazy fast! They were jumping straight up out of the water like 6in when I was trying to net them. So you can probably guess, I had to rip apart the tank. 45min later I caught all seven.. :roll:

While I was at the LFS they were showing me the new arrivals and it just so happened that they got in a group of Xiphophorus montezumae! They were a bit pricey at $4.50 a pop so I only picked up a trio. They currently have the 15gal to themselves so hopefully they settle in and I get some fry.

I also went ahead and rescaped the tank. No pics yet as the water is still a bit cloudy but I'll try and get some up tomorrow. :thumb:


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

At least we have the videos to remember them by...


----------



## CjCichlid

Hah, very true Iggy. I didn't realize how big they were; the two larger males were three inches. Fish always look larger once you net them and take them out of the water..

I was a bit worried about throwing off the communities dynamics by removing them but all seems well. The "three amigos", as I like to call them, have been getting along great over the past couple of months. I think they pretty much have the hierarchy worked out and they rarely ever challenge each other. They actually seem to pal around and follow each other quite a bit..

I decided to hold onto the C. sajica in hopes of getting them to finally spawn. I'll definitely try and raise some fry if they do end up doing the deed.


----------



## FedEXguy

End of an era, I say. Hopefully they'll end up in a good home.
I picked up some Xiphophorus helleri a couple weeks ago (1m/3f) and dropped them in the 20 with the rainbows. I already have fry everywhere, some of which I put in a fry cage, and so far the ones swimming freely in the tank have not been bothered by the rainbows. I'm wondering if they'll ever decide, "Hey, these guys look tasty."


----------



## CjCichlid

Alrighty, the new scape..










I think I may catch some flack on this one as it's very simple, however I really like it. I never was fond of the previous rock arrangement on the left side. One, it looked too "placed" for my tastes, and two, I was never fond of the orangish colored rocks. Nothing new really added to this scape except for two bags of small river rock that I picked up from Hobby Lobby. In my opinion this is one of the better scapes that I've done and it took me the least amount of time. All it's missing is a fresh batch of leaves which I already have soaking..


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

Simple, yet effective. I like it. I love me some rocks though...

Too chicken to gather your own rocks from a creek? What is this? Amateur hour?!


----------



## CjCichlid

Hah, I'll collect leaves in this blistering cold but I'll be dam*ed if I go tromping through a frozen creek..

I had this coming after heckling skurj about buying leaves.. :roll:


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

Just playin man! Even with neoprene waders it would be torture. Reaching down into the water for a few stones... Brutal.


----------



## CjCichlid

Well I decided to feed some zucchini this morning and apparently my community doesn't know how to share very well. I managed to get some _extremely_ crummy footage of the pearsei and syn "working things out". Sorry for the crazy glare, as well as the out of focus segments in the beginning. Guess my camera didn't know what to focus on?

Anyway here it is.. be sure to watch it in HD or it'll REALLY look terrible. :roll: 





Next time I feed zucchini or cucumber I think I'll add more than one piece to help limit the aggression.


----------



## FedEXguy

Alright, serious question (ok, not really.) Which do you like better, the pearsei, synspilum, or argentea, and why? This is a test and you will be scored on thoroughness of your answers. Don't worry, it's Whose Line scoring rules.


----------



## CjCichlid

Hah, funny you ask this as I was just thinking about this the other day. I was trying to think about which of the three I'd keep if for some reason they no longer got along.. and I'm not sure I came up with an answer?

I'll break all three of them down..

The Pearsei.. Gorgeous fish and I really think I got a great specimen as he's top notch as far as pearsei's go. He has a good personality, front and center especially during feeding time. Not really aggressive unless of course food is involved, and even then it never really becomes serious.. lots of displaying similar to what you saw in the above video. He is however the biggest scaredy cat whenever I am doing something with the tank, such as a water change. He'll go and hide until it's over.. but then he's right back to being his usual self shortly after.

The Syn.. Another great specimen, great colors with lots of blues/greens. I'm still not 100% on it's gender yet but I believe it to be a male. If it does turn out to be female, I'll most likely remove her from the community. "He" has a similar personality as the pearsei, loves his food, however I could see him becoming more aggressive if he ever passes the pearsei in size (doubtful). He's not quite as flighty when I do water changes and will venture out of hiding to see what's going on.

The Argentea.. This guy was the original "big guy". I've always wanted one ever since I saw Lee Nuttall's stunning male and when I came across some I just HAD to have one (I paid $30 for a 1.5 incher!). These guys are known for being randomly aggressive and I could see how things could escalate if he ever became the dominant fish, however, they are slow growers and he'll never surpass the pearsei or the syn. I think once he becomes mature he'll be my favorite, as I think they are beautiful.. very elegant looking. He has a great personality, not overly personable like the pearsei, but definitely has some character. What I really like about him is that he is constantly engaged with his surroundings. He's always picking through the sand and turning over leaves looking for food. He also is the least flighty when I am working in the tank. He'll be out and about checking everything out that's going on.

So.. with all that said, I'd have a hard time getting rid of any of them and I don't think I could pick a single favorite. It would be a tie between the pearsei and the argentea. If I had to get rid of one, it would be the syn simply due to the fact that they are the most commonly seen species out of the three.


----------



## FedEXguy

That's a pretty much perfect answer. I'm still trying to decide what I'll eventually add to my 240 when I get it set up. These are three of my top choices, so any firsthand insights are exactly what I need to read. Thanks!


----------



## CjCichlid

Jealous. :? Hopefully I move up to an 8 footer before the end of this year..

Every fish's personality is of course different but I think the fact that the pearsei is the biggest, as well as the top dog in the tank, helps tremendously. I feel pearsei's are great additions to large CA communities as they make the perfect tank "moderator". I'd highly recommend one!


----------



## CjCichlid

Put together this short video last night. No real changes to the setup but everyone is coming along nicely..

If the music sounds familiar, it's because I think I've used it before.. I am running out of good background music!
As always, be sure to watch it in 1080p HD! Enjoy! :fish:


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

Nice video Chris!

Where do you pull your music from? YouTube library? If not, do you have copyright claims on your vids?


----------



## CjCichlid

Yeah, I just use the YouTube library.. I'm not even sure how to upload my own music onto YouTube?


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

If you use an editing software or even Windows Movie Maker you are able to add music from iTunes, etc.


----------



## CjCichlid

Ah, I just upload multiple clips onto YouTube then use their editor to put everything together..


----------



## spotmonster

I'm surprised the mollies aren't being eaten. On a whim I just brought home 4 Buenos Aires tetra's today fully expecting everything would be fine. I put them in my 180 and they immediately were looked upon as food. I was surprised because my nics are pretty small and they have never been bothered. Oh well, they were cheap at least. I know one has been eaten, and I rescued one to be used in another tank. Not sure if the other 2 are still alive or not.


----------



## CjCichlid

Spotmonster, some of the mollies do occasionally come up missing, as I buy a few every month to keep the numbers up. The argentea seems to enjoy harassing them, especially when the lights go out but his mouth is way to small to actually eat one. The only culprit I have actually witnessed eating one is my pearsei. The addition of small twiggy branches near the surface gives them a place to retreat to that is relatively out of harms way.

Which cichlid decided to make your BA tetras a snack? Perhaps try Filament Barbs or Silver Dollars if you are still wanting a schooling "dither" species.


----------



## spotmonster

CjCichlid said:


> Which cichlid decided to make your BA tetras a snack? Perhaps try Filament Barbs or Silver Dollars if you are still wanting a schooling "dither" species.


The chocolate went right for them which really caught me off guard. Then the larger syns. The presumed larger female syn is the one I witnessed catching one. In the end I think she spit it back out, as i found one torn in half. The tetra's were very large and full grown. Even at the size my 3 large fish are, the're mouths aren't really that big. It's almost as if the fish were annoyed by them rather than hungry.

Up until now, I don't think I have a need for dithers, I just added them for the heck of it. They were something to bring home that was cheap from my 2nd part time job at my LFS


----------



## CjCichlid

Well a long overdue update, although there isn't really much to update. Stock and scape is still the same.. minus pretty much ALL of the mollies. I think I have one large male left in there out of the 20+ I had a few weeks ago. There is also still a pair of Swords that have evaded being predated on as well. Not sure why the sudden change in attitude, but the three big guys just started picking them all off one by one when the lights went out. No plans to add or change much any time soon as I'll be moving to a new house come the end of May.

Here's a short vid I put together yesterday. Enjoy and be sure to view in 1080p HD!


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

Pearsi is lookin good, man. Too bad about all your livebearers. Maybe it had to do with the removal of the Cryptoheros?

So what is in the tank now? Saw the big 3 and the Sajica pair.


----------



## CjCichlid

Thanks Iggy. I would loose the occasional livebearer on a weekly basis pretty much from the get go but it wasn't until a couple weeks ago I noticed them really going after them consistently. Not sure what triggered it but once I move and get the tank set back up I'll add another type of dither. Most likely Buenos Aires Tetras, however I feel Sailfin Mollies could work as well.

As for the stock, yup that's it minus a Spotted Raphael Cat (but he hardly counts). I actually figured the "pair" of sajica would spawn once I removed the other Cryptos, but they don't really seem too interested in each other. They'll flirt occasionally, but it's mostly just the male just harassing the female.

Besides another round of dithers, I don't see myself adding anything as I feel it looks well stocked as it is. Not to mention, the big three will only continue to get bigger! I've actually been searching craigslist lately for something in the 240+ gallon range but have yet to come across anything to my fancy.


----------



## CjCichlid

So I was trying to figure out just about how old my three big guys were and decided to go back through this thread to see when I had gotten them. Turns out, they are all well over a year old now, as I got the pearsei and syn last Feb. and the argentea a couple months before that. It seems like everything I have read/keep reading suggests that at the very least, the pearsei and syn should be much larger then what mine are. Curious what the deal is with these guys? Obviously growth rate can and will vary but the pearsei is the largest and is only about the size of my hand. Water params are spot on and they all eat like pigs.. Any thoughts?


----------



## CjCichlid

Hey all, figured I'd post up a quick update..

Yesterday someone came and picked up my Syn. It was tough to let him go but I will be moving soon and have some plans to change up the stock a bit. The C. sajica are next to go and someone should be picking them up this weekend. I will be holding on to my pearsei and argentea.

As for what I plan on adding once I move and get everything back up and running.. I am not yet quite sure. I was on the hunt for a larger tank but think I may put that on the back burner and just be satisfied with my 135gal for now. As soon as the spring/summer months hit I find myself much more less occupied with this hobby, as my mountain bike and motorcycle addiction begins to take back over. :roll:

Hope everyone is doing well and thanks for checking in! :thumb:


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

The summer.... I'm about a month away from a fishing trip and that's all I've been thinking about all week.

I'd imagine the tank looking pretty empty soon....


----------



## inth3shadows

that is a bummer. Your Syn was a really nice. Can't wait to see what you do with the stocking!


----------



## CjCichlid

The syn was definitely a looker. My pride and joy are my pearsei and argentea though and all three were not going to be able to be housed together in a 135gal long term. The syn was also the trouble maker out of the three and the most commonly seen so it was, for the most part, an easy choice. I moved the C. sajica to my QT tank yesterday and a guy is picking them up this evening.

Also.. I made the terrible decision to drop by my LFS today. Haven't been in there for over a month, as every time I go there I walk out with more fish.. and I kept that streak going today. I walked out with 4 spotted SD's and a male A. robertsoni! The A. robertsoni was a no brainer as I had been wanting another one ever since I lost my original one a while back. The SD's were defitely more of an impulse buy but I got a good deal on them so I said what the heck. They always get mix matched SD species, from the run of the mill SD, to Red Hooks, to Spotteds, and I grabbed the 4 Spotted's that they had. If they settle in well, I will build up to a school of 5-7.

My tanks a bit of a mess right now from having to catch fish but I'll try and get some pics or a vid up soon. :fish:


----------



## CjCichlid

Stepping up my photo game..


----------



## Cichlid Debby

Looks GREAT! Would love to get my tanks to look more natural like yours.

Do you use "wild caught" wood? 
How do you process it? Driftwood at the LFS costs a fortune.

Deb


----------



## inth3shadows

the A. robertsoni looks really nice. The Spotted's look very similar to mine. I have one that might not have the spots and probably half of mine have that red on the shoulder. Looks good!


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

Nice photos!

Robertsoni looks great for being the new guy.


----------



## CjCichlid

Deb, thanks! As for driftwood, yes I do collect my own. I've touched on this subject quite a bit. Here's a relatively recent thread where I broke it down pretty well on how/what to do..
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=287538

inth3shadows, thanks! I have been doing a lot of research as of late on how to differentiate between the different SD species, as there are something like 20+ different species. From what I have gathered, Metynnis lippincottianus (aka Spotted Silver Dollars) are more elongated than your "normal" SD. Males will have more distinct spotting, as well as have red/orange markings on their bellies and behind their eyes. Their anal fins will also be shaped a bit differently from females, and will "flare" out towards the bottom (as seen in both of my previous pics). Females however, get larger and have less distinct spotting. They will have no red/orange markings on their bodies but will have red on their anal fins. I believe I have three males and one female. They have what I believe to be two more females at my LFS that I may grab.

Iggy, thanks! I was surprised myself at how good the robertsoni looked once I dropped him in the tank. Within 5 minutes he was acting like he owned the place! He completely punked my argentea and even flares up at my pearsei which is at least twice his size. I really hope this guy thrives as I think he has the potential to really be a stunner.

A couple random thoughts..

Even though I am considering going back and grabbing the two remaining M. lippincottianus from my LFS, I am still not 100% sold on them. I am very picky about how fish "look" together and for some reason they just don't look like they belong (maybe because they really don't?!). That may grow on me however, as they are a cool looking fish. I'm not to worried about it though as I can easily sell them for more than what I paid. If I do decide to sell them I will most likely go back to a large school of BA tetras.

Also been contemplating what else I'd like to add after the move.. If I go with a group/pairs, it will be some sort of Thorichthys. If I go with a singleton, it will most likely be a female Salvini. As much as I'd like a group of something, luck has not been on my side as far as spawning aggression goes. However, that could simply be due to me not coming across the right species yet.


----------



## inth3shadows

yeah, I saw your post on MFK and still not really sure what I have. But it is crazy there are so many species of just SD.

I am not totally crazy about the SD but I wanted some sort of action and hopefully they are helping my Pike get used to pellets. (still hasn't taken and eaten one) But maybe it is because I like to feed frozen blood worms about 2-3 times a week and not once a week so the pike isn't too worried about starving. My pike and argentea are my two favorite fish in my current setup. I have very little aggression, but I am thinking soon I'll have to slim my stock a bit.

If I had another 135 sitting around I'd probably start with some "Tomocichla	sieboldii "Rio Garaiche"	from Wet Spot and maybe some "Cryptoheros nanoluteus".


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## CjCichlid

I think the SD's are actually making the rest of my crew skittish. They really never were flightly, however now they seem to be running for cover quite a bit. Not sure if it's because they simply are not use to them yet or if it's due to all the rapid movement from them..

Although the A. robertsoni is quite active, he has yet to eat. Hopefully he wont travel down the same path as my last one. :?


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## Mr Chromedome

I was watching your last video, and thought I'd mention that your sajica are both males. Females have yellowish orange dorsal and anal with a wide border on the outer edges. Both your fish have the red fins of males. I have some photos to show the difference, but haven't uploaded them anywhere online yet. However, a quick google image search will show you the difference very quickly.


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## CjCichlid

That thought had crossed my mind early on but I am almost certain I had a male and female. Their body shapes were completely different and the males fins were much larger and showy. They would also flirt with each other quite regularly, just never actually spawned. Regardless, I sold them to someone last week so they have moved on..


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## CjCichlid

Did a larger than usual water change last night and decided to snap a FTS when the water settled. Crazy how much tannins the driftwood still releases. I don't really notice it until I do a large water change like this and then the water just looks so pristine afterwards.










Still no luck getting the A. robertsoni to eat. He seems interested during feeding time but just doesn't commit, even if it falls right in front of his face. Also, second guessing whether "he" is a male or not. Can't quite tell..


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## inth3shadows

have you tried a garlic supplement or food soaked with crushed garlic?

I've never had to, but it might be worth a try since it has been quite a while.


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## CjCichlid

Unfortunetly, yes I have.. I feed NLS thera A regularly. In addition to that I have tired Omega One "veggie" spillurina pellets and earthworm flake. My last A. robertsoni was the same way and would only really eat live blackworms and bloodworms. Hopefully this guy comes around or I'm afraid he's going to end up like my last one, aka dead.


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## inth3shadows

According to an old post on Cichlidae from Lee Nuttal. (thread I found , http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9016)



> When i first had my robertsoni i had difficulties trying to get them to feed, however they are fine now.
> As these are sand sifters, floating foods will be ingnored. I usually feed mine on sinking foods like Tetra Prima, algae wafers and sinking bloodworm pellets.


Is it possible he is eating, just predominantly algae in your tank? Your tank looks pretty clean, have you seen him try anything like that?

I hope yours makes it


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## CjCichlid

Thanks for the link! He does sift the sand often so he may be picking up some leftovers from the others but it can't be much. As soon as the pellets hit the water the pearsei and argentea are on them. Not much algae in my tank, if any at all. A few diatoms on the glass is about all I ever see..

I'll start feeding the earthworm flake a bit more often. I think that would be the easiest for him to get since the flakes break up and often sink to the bottom unnoticed by the others.


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## CjCichlid

Well a couple updates..

I moved the A. robertsoni into my 15gal QT tank. I really should have put him in there from the get go. I have seen him flashing and twitching quite a bit which is a pretty good indicator that he has some form of parasite, most likely gill flukes. I'm going to dose the QT tank with a heavy amount of salt to try and kill them off and perhaps then he will come around. Worst case scenario, I take him back to the LFS.

I've also came across a local guy selling a group of young F1 T. meeki "Laguna La Perdida" from Rusty Wessel. I'm hoping to pick them up sometime this weekend. So much for slimming down my stock before I move.. :roll: But hey, I'll be back in the Thorichthys game!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Skipping the QT has bit me in the past. Hopefully you get him taken care of and nothing spread.

Post pics of the Meeki! What size?


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## CjCichlid

I've made this mistake before.. you'd think I would have learned by now. Gill flukes aren't typically really all that serious. Just to be safe though I did another 80% water change and going to salt the 135gal for a week or so. No biggie.

I'll be sure to post pics once I get the T. meeki! He said they were between 2-3in so guessing they will be relatively drab looking still. Pretty stoked to have some F1 fish with an actual collection point though! From the pics I have seen online, the "Laguna La Perdida" meeki are real lookers.


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## CjCichlid

Well I picked up the group (6) of F1 T. meeki "Laguna La Perdida" this evening. They are all around ~2.5" and just beginning to color up. The guy that I got them from actually went to Rusty Wessel's house and picked these up. They have a ton of orange in their fins, as well as a lot of blue spangling. Once these guys put on a bit more size I think they really are going to be lookers.. lots of potential.

They are already out and about checking out their new digs and even ate shortly after I introduced them into the 135gal. My pearsei and argentea really didn't make too much of a fuss about them, so hopefully it stays that way. I'll post pics in a couple days once they are settled in.

I will say the school of 5 spotted silver dollars were really starting to grow on me.. until I just added this group of meeki. Now it just seems too busy, so I may be selling the SD's after all.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Post a vid or some pics of the Meeki or I'm calling BS...


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## CjCichlid

Hah patience! They are still a bit camera shy! One of them has an orange stripe running down the top of it's back.. never seen anything like it before.

Edit/Update: After watching them for a bit tonight they really do have a unique look to them compared to the meeki I see at my LFS. These guys have a ton of orange in their fins and show a ridiculous amount of blue sheen along their flanks. Another thing I noticed is that they all have quite an under-bite and their "lips" seem especially large. I tried to see if I could distinguish sexes but they are still too young. However, if I had to guess I'd say I have more males than females solely based on the profiles of their heads. Can you tell that I am excited about these guys?! 

Iggy, I can't believe you have 12 of these in your setup. I feel like my tank looks like a beehive right now and I only have 6!


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## CjCichlid

Quick update on the new additions..

They have settled in pretty well and are already working out a hierarchy, lots of gill flaring and short bits of chasing. The guy I got them from said they were around a year old. If this is the case, they have definitely been stunted a bit. I've been feeding them 3x times a day in hopes to get them growing and filled out and each time they act like they haven't been fed in a week, they literally attack the food. No pics yet, sorry. When I got them, they were a bit roughed up so I am letting them heal up completely before showing them off!


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## Iggy Newcastle

They sound really hungry! That's one thing I noticed about my Thorichthys when I went near any tank they were in. When they were in a 40 breeder and I got close to the tank, the fish would leap out of the water and thud into the glass lid. Once the lid was opened they continued jumping. Even jumping out of the tank! On 2 occasions I've had one jump out of my 125 and onto the floor. It's carpet, thank God. Now that a canopy is in place this can no longer happen...

An interesting observation by Seth Meek in 1904. Third paragraph down...
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=143



> Iggy, I can't believe you have 12 of these in your setup. I feel like my tank looks like a beehive right now and I only have 6!


 :lol: yea it's pretty active at times. At least you have some big boys to keep them check...


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## CjCichlid

They have a voracious appetite. They often inhale the pellet with so much force that they literally end up choking on it!

And that's an interesting factoid.. here I thought meek meant like gentle, quiet, submissive, ect..

Alright Iggy.. here's my terrible attempt at capturing a couple pics of these guys. They are harder to photograph than the silver dollars! And it doesn't help that my pearsei photo bombs almost every pic I take!



















I think a video is going to be the way to go, so I'll work on getting one up in the next few days..


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## CjCichlid

Just got back from returning the A. robertsoni back to my LFS as he still hadn't eaten anything. I was doing water changes every other day with heavy salt and no real change to his behavior. He also just seemed really stressed out in the QT tank. Luckily I am pretty good friends with everyone at the LFS so they took him back and credited me what I paid for him. Strike two with A. robertsonis.. :roll:


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## Iggy Newcastle

They look nice dude. Nice blue spangles in the face on that fish front and center in the first photo. The second pic is pretty cool!

How do you get small pebbles to stay on top of the sand?

Too bad about the Astatheros. Turn out to be a bigger fish anyways, and the Thorichthys look similar enough...


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## CjCichlid

Thanks man.. of course they look better in person. All of them have a lot of blue spangling, much more so than any store bought meeki I've seen. Hopefully they'll start to show some more red soon. The behavior difference between keeping a lone pair and a group is night and day. Thorichthys are definitely meant to be kept in groups. Really happy that I came full circle and have some T. meeki again!

As for the gravel, it stays at the surface due to the current in the tank. Those pics are right where the AC110 dumps out so the gravel tends to rise to the surface as the sand slowly gets pushed away. Not to mention all the cichlids are constantly digging and sifting through the sand.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Well I'm looking forward to your video. And pictures just can't do justice. I have a pretty decent camera and I failed with my Thorichthys pics.


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## nlnl

Sweet!


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## inth3shadows

I wasn't sure I'd like the look, however those firemouth's look great! Great pick!


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## CjCichlid

Thanks guys.

I've been having some crazy thoughts lately.. debating whether to sell my argentea or not. The tank is in my bedroom so I tend to watch it for a bit before going to sleep each night. The argentea has taken a liking to picking on the new guys. He is quite sneaky about.. he'll just slowly creep up to them and then suddenly just hit them really hard. This isn't anything really new as he was the first one to start picking off the mollies. He doesn't eat them, he just kills them.

I am also debating whether to add more T. meeki. I wish I had a bigger group as I am afraid I have a large ratio of males. For some reason they all have their "junk" hanging out 24/7 and from what I can tell as of now, I may very well only have one female out of the six. I'd hate to mix in "LFS" meeki with them though.. :?


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## CjCichlid

Did a water change this evening and thought I'd attempt to snap a few pics. I failed miserably.. my camera phone is good but my pearsei just won't stay still! You get the idea though. He's a beautiful fish.

Added a few plants to the surface. You'll see that I have used these before if you scroll back through some of my older full tank pics. The SD's really seem to like them.. and of course my pearsei tried to eat them. :roll:










And a couple blurry pics of my pearsei..










FEED ME!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Wow he's lookin' good. Hope you don't have to ditch the Argentea. Are you still planning to upgrade tank size when you move?


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## CjCichlid

Thanks Iggy. I hope I don't have to sell off the V. argentea either, he's just now starting to really look like an argentea should.. if that makes any sense? His aggression is so random that it's just hard to predict how he will behave.

As for a larger tank.. ideally yes, however my moving situation is a bit complicated. I'm moving in temporarily with my girlfriend for a bit until a good friend of mine and myself find a house. So, I'll most likely be moving AGAIN within just a couple months. What I would like to have happen is to have a larger tank setup at the new house so I can just swap them out into that from the 135gal when I move for the second time. Who knows though.. I am always scouring craigslist and I rarely ever see tanks larger than 150gal for sale.


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## CjCichlid

Quick update..

The T. meeki are looking better each day. They are all finally pretty much healed up to 100%, as their fins were a bit tattered when I initially got them. They still eat like they've been starved and I'm still thinking I may only have one female, which kind of sucks..

As for the V. argentea, he's been behaving himself for the most part lately, so I'll hopefully be able to hang on to him. His dorsal fin trailers are getting ridiculously long. I'll try and get a few good pics of him posted soon, however he tends to be a bit camera shy.


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## inth3shadows

please do catch a pic. What size is your Argentea now?


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## CjCichlid

Well the move is done.. at least for now. I forgot just how much of a PITA moving a large tank is. It pretty much took me all day to get everything broken down, moved, and set back up. I'll be moving again, however this time into my long term house in a few months. I'm not looking forward to it AT ALL. I think what I may actually do is buy a new tank and have it set up in the new house before even breaking down my 135gal. That way I can just do a quick swap.

Good news is all the fish made it. I separated them up into three large coolers so there really wasn't even any fin damage to any of them. I will say I was shocked at how large everyone was!  They all looked huge out of the water. I didn't measure any of them but just eyeballing them.. my pearsei is easily 8in, argentea a solid 5.5in, and all the T. meeki are a solid 3in. The meeki have really put on some size since I got them a couple months ago; as well as have colored up quite a bit. Before the move they were even showing some pairing behavior.

The tank itself currently looks pretty bare. The fish had been in the coolers for over 5 hours and I was pretty exhausted so I didn't even bother scaping it. I literally just threw in a few rocks and pieces of driftwood. Once I get the tank somewhat scaped to my liking and everyone settles back in, I'll post up some pics.

Hope everyone is doing well! :thumb:


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## Cichlid Debby

Can't wait to see the new look.

Mr.P was so happy to hear that his brother and friends got to their new home safe and sound!  :thumb:


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## wildcaught dutchman

@CjCichlid:Very nice tank.When I see your fish I think you have a lot of youngsters.Nice to see them grow and develop!!


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## CjCichlid

Cichlid Debby said:


> Can't wait to see the new look.
> 
> Mr.P was so happy to hear that his brother and friends got to their new home safe and sound!  :thumb:


Hah, thanks Deb. I was relieved as well. They handled it better than I thought. I don't think we give the majority of fish enough credit when it comes to how hardy and resilient they are. Hopefully I'll get to scaping the tank over the next couple of days.



wildcaught dutchman said:


> @CjCichlid:Very nice tank.When I see your fish I think you have a lot of youngsters.Nice to see them grow and develop!!


Thanks! I've had some mature fish but I have changed up my stock quite a bit over the past couple of years. However, I'll be sticking with my current "main" stock for the most part long term from here on out. I may swap out the Silver Dollars for something else and perhaps add a single lone cichlid. I seem to have a good balance currently though.. I just can't seem to leave a good thing alone. :roll:


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## CjCichlid

Alrighty.. so I pieced together a quick scape last night. Nothing spectacular but it'll do for a couple months until I have to tear it apart again. I really need to go pick up a few more larger boulder/rocks as I only have a few that I actually like.

Although not the most pleasing to the eye, this scape allows for a total of four distinct territories, outlined by the red circles. I used the rocks and driftwood to create some good line of sight breaks and also moved the boulders a couple inches away from the back of the tank to allow for the fish to be able to swim completely around them, thus creating more "escape" routes. The twigs at the surface I literally just threw in as they had all dried out and were once again buoyant. The majority of them will be water logged in a few days and I'll rearrange them a bit when that happens. All the fish are back to their usual selves.. colored up, active, and eating like pigs.










A quick note about the Spotted SD's.. when I initially got them they were quite skittish, as to be expected. However, they have really come full circle and are front and center when I walk up to the tank, just like the cichlids. I don't think I'll be getting rid of them any time soon. I'm curious to see how large they get.. the two females have been growing like weeds so far. I also still have two large male Yucatan Mollies. I may try adding a few large females and see if the cichlids leave them alone this time.

Thanks for looking! :thumb:


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## Iggy Newcastle

Looks nice CJ. Keep the updates Rollin.....


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## CjCichlid

Tried getting a couple good pics of my argentea last night and failed miserably.

They're pretty blurry but.. he's coming along nicely.


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## inth3shadows

your Argentea is looking great!


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## CjCichlid

Thanks! I'll have to get a video up soon as the T. meeki are really starting to put some size on. They've also been doing a lot of displaying and I have at least one pair forming.


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## CjCichlid

Well I came home the other day to find my Current Sat LED+ fixture off (it was on when I had left for work). Looks like the ballast has gone bad as the fixture will not turn back on. I just made a warranty claim so hopefully I'll be getting it replaced. Pretty disappointed as the fixture is less than a year old.

I'll post an update as soon as I get my tank lite back up!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Well that concerns me. I have 3 of them. What is the manufacturer warranty? 1 year?


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## CjCichlid

Yes, the warranty is for one year. However, you must have proof of purchase if you ever want to redeem a warranty. Luckily I ordered mine off of Amazon so I was able to download my order invoice.

Also, if you go on to the Current USA website you can register your fixtures, which should help if you ever do have an issue.

Edit: Well Current contacted me one day after I submitted my warranty claim and have sent me out a new fixture free of charge. Although disappointing to see my original fixture fail so early on, it's nice to see solid customer service. Hopefully the new fixture will last much, much longer!


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## CjCichlid

Got a package from Current today. They ended up sending me just a new power cord and remote. I was under the impression they were sending me a complete fixture. However, the new power cord has the light working again so I suppose I can't complain. The original power cord looks to be different from the one they sent me, so I am guessing they switched brands/manufactures. Perhaps due to people having problems with the originals?


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## Iggy Newcastle

The last light I bought has a different cord. Glad it worked out for ya.


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## CjCichlid

Alright.. A LONG overdue update!

Put together this short video last night. Nothing has really changed since my June 26th post. I haven't even changed the scape, however you can see it looks a bit different from the last picture simply from the cichlids digging and sifting through the sand. Many of the rocks have been covered and of course the twigs have been rearranged countless times by my pearsei.

Be sure to watch in HD! :thumb:


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## CjCichlid

The only time he sits still for a picture is when he has his mouth full!


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## Iggy Newcastle

He's looking awesome! Is he eating romaine? Loved the video.


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## CjCichlid

Thanks Adam. And yes, he's eating romaine. Between him, my argentea and the group of SD's they easily eat one large leaf within an hour. I try and give it to them a few times a week as they seem to love it. It does however make a mess in the aquarium when it comes out their "other end".


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## inth3shadows

Cj, any new updates? I am awful at updates on my tanks, but you typically have one every few months or more.

Still have the argentea and pearsi?


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## CjCichlid

Go back a page if you haven't seen the December updates yet. Other than that, I have been pretty bad keeping this thread updated recently as well! Not much has changed though honestly. I do still have the argentea and pearsi, as well as my group of T. meeki.


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## Bikeman48088

Nice tank and video.


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## CjCichlid

Thanks Bikeman.

Quick update..

Woke up this morning to find one of my T. meeki dead.  It was the smallest of the 6 and I think he may have had some problems from the get go. He always looked very "stunted" with his eyes much to large for his body. Just the other day I noticed he had some stringy poo so perhaps he had some internal problems. Despite that, all the other occupants are looking great.

With death comes new life however, as it appears my 2 bristlenose plecos have spawned. I happened to catch a brief glance of a tiny little yellow looking thing stuck to the side of the glass. Took me a second to register exactly what it was! My group of spotted dollars have been showing breeding dress as well, with the males constantly bickering and pestering the largest female. If they spawn before my T. meeki do.. I give up! :lol:


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## inth3shadows

wow! I rarely keep more than one pleco type in an aquarium. If I keep having issues with algae I might get a second one though!

Sad to hear one of the Meeki died. Great to hear your sd's are doing so well!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Something similar happened to one of my T. Maculipinnis, although when the symptoms began it was one of the largest ones.

When did you add a male BN? Mine are spawning all the time.


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## CjCichlid

Yeah, kind of a bummer losing one of the meeki. I wanted a larger group in the first place and now I am down to five. Still keeping my eye out for a group of T. pasionis though..

I have had a male BN for quite a while now. The BN's are my girlfriends favorite (of course) so she insisted in getting my original female a "friend". I figured they'd spawn at some point but not this soon, as the male is still quite small. I've only seen a few of the fry(?) and they are immediately chased down and eaten by the cichlids once they've been spotted. Have any of your BN offspring actually lasted Iggy?


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## Iggy Newcastle

Not in the traditional sense...

Take a look here- http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=346897


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