# Black Congo Calvus???



## lakecalvus (Apr 6, 2010)

Sup everyone, does this look like a Black Congo Calvus to you guys?? I received the calvus on Friday, the seller told me it was a Black calvus congo... what do you guys think??? also its a wild caught..


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

I am tempted to say no but it can be difficult when they are young. The pictured fish has small pearls and is very light in color. I have wild calvus black Congo white pearl and they are much darker that the one pictured (granted I can't be difinative). The bcwp have larger pearls (actually the largest pearls of any calvus and they usually will have yellow on the forehead). I'll post a few pics of the bcwp (wild adult and F1 fry). I don't think yours is bcwp?


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## Jesseschu (Mar 16, 2011)

Hi there,
I am new to the cichlid world and new to this site, so thank you in advance for whatever help anyone offers to me.

I have a show tank with all males, including one Calvus Black Congo. I have had the majority of the fish for several months and just picked up the Calvus with a few others.

When I do a water change, he and only he sinks to the bottom of the tank and starts gasping. No other fish are affected this way.

The water I am using is from the tap, but I make sure the temp of it is the same as what is in the tank. I know he likes the water cleanest of all my fish, but I find myself not changing water as often, so as not to have him negatively affected like this.

Please help! Thank you.


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## lakecalvus (Apr 6, 2010)

**** yours look way better then the one I have. Its a black calvus congo. How big are your wild caught? The one I have is at least 2.5 inch. Should I tell the seller mines doesn't look like a black congo? Lol


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I bought black calvus (inkfin) and could have sworn for months a white one got mixed in. Now they are all black as sin.


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## bullit (Apr 9, 2010)

Jesseschu said:


> Hi there,
> I am new to the cichlid world and new to this site, so thank you in advance for whatever help anyone offers to me.
> 
> I have a show tank with all males, including one Calvus Black Congo. I have had the majority of the fish for several months and just picked up the Calvus with a few others.
> ...


im sure i read a similar thread about this and the answer was the declorinator. What are you using?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Yep you either need to reduce the size of the waterchanges (little and often) or pre age and dechlorinate your replacement water. calvus are fussy they hate chlorine and chloramines in tap water and hate pH changes caused by tap water having a lower pH because of carbondioxide dissolved in it from the mains pressure.
Dunno exactly which is coursing the problem with your calvus but a couple of experiments should find which one or wheather it is both that are causing the problem.

Oh its a nice calvus just not sure it is showing good enough colours to be a Congo black pearl for sure.
But lack of colour (clear black and pearl markings) due to it not being yet happy with your water change regime could I guess explain that.
For sure dunno what else it could be.
WC huh? Erm do they export baby fish from the lake now?
Oh a poor pics of my Congo Black Pearl (WC) I think :wink: to compare.
RAZZOs seem particularly well coloured to me.
Female

Male


All the best James


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## Mr Mbuna (Nov 16, 2007)

Looks just like my "Nsumbu black", apart from maybe the yellow on the head. I reckon half of these names are made up just to make them seem different or exotic/brand new.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Good spot. Yep the OPs fish looks very like a Altolamprologus calvus Nsumbu 'Black' and not like the newer more expensive Congo black calvus White Pearl.
I wish we did not have to use this none location name but I understand the collectors are keeping the location of the Congo black calvus White Pearl a secret. 
The size and youth of the fish matches a young TB or pond bred Altolamprologus calvus Nsumbu 'Black'
but not any WC I have encountered.
Though it also looks quite a lot like the one shown on the species article http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/a_calvus.php a wild-caught male from Moliro :-?

All the best James


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## Myrock (Mar 7, 2010)

Should have some yellow on the face. Is it a female? But even females have some yellow.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Due to the fact that you received the fish 2 days ago I'd say it's a congo, definitely not an "Ink fin" or "Black Pectoral" or even a "White" but a Congo Black gone gray because of stress.

WC Calvus have a knack for adjusting slowly. I had a pair that when I added them to my setup they wouldn't eat for 2 1/2 weeks! they also tend to color down and hide for a couple weeks.

Substrate and presence of females has a lot to do (I could elaborate for days on this so I'll spare you here  ) with both male and female coloration in this species.

Step#1 Patience
Step #2 black substrate
Step #3 add females 
Step #4 Go to eye doctor! :lol:


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## Mr Mbuna (Nov 16, 2007)

Here's my male Nsumbu black. Spot the difference between this and a BCWP (if you can). Its a little lighter because of the flash - it normally looks darker than this.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Mr Mbuna said:


> Here's my male Nsumbu black. Spot the difference between this and a BCWP (if you can). Its a little lighter because of the flash - it normally looks darker than this.


Beautiful fish! Not much different than a bcwp? It might be a stretch on my part but,... maybe,... mayne not,... the pearls are a wee bit smaller esp on the dorsal fin. As you said it is a little lighter in your pic than normal.

I definitely would not want to, have to, make a living trying to distinguish between them 

Russ


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## lakecalvus (Apr 6, 2010)




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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

The one on top looks a bit like the newer "Livua" variant due to the small spots but without seeing a group with this similarity I would hesitant to say for sure.

The one beneath seems to be more a sub-adult, probably right at 2 yrs. old. They both however, look like southern Congos to me. The blue finnage in the lower

All of this may be mute though because, if you look at some pics of the distribution facilities on the lake shores you will see tons of ponds (I'm guess 2-4 thousand gallons ea?) where they raise "Wild Caught" fish.

I don't really care that they do this but it would, over time, reduce certain traits over generations I should think. Pond raising is a step up from fishroom breeding I think but yet a step down from actual hand caught fish because fish that would be lost to interspecies predation end up surviving with assumed inferior traits in the ponds. 
.

It's important to remember that all "Calvus" are genetically the same just color variants. I've never been patient enough to try it (They grow SLOW) but I would think I could create a white calvus from a congo black strain in 6-8 generations.

You've got nice fish though, imo!


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

BioG said:


> The one on top looks a bit like the newer "Livua" variant due to the small spots but without seeing a group with this similarity I would hesitant to say for sure.
> 
> The one beneath seems to be more a sub-adult, probably right at 2 yrs. old. They both however, look like southern Congos to me. The blue finnage in the lower
> 
> ...


Erm the colour and darkness etc is partly determined by genetics so different calvus variants are not geneticaly the same (though still described as the same species, variants are genetically different from each other)
For sure agree about the pond bred comments. (Though some pond bred fish (Fishes of Burundi) I have had have been great its not I think always this way as others have been rather poor.)
And just how slow it is to grow these guys on from small fish to breeding size.

Yep after looking pretty dodgy at first they do seem to be improving fast. 8)

All the best James


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Sometimes I make Broad "genetic" statements knowing someone will chime in and teach me something :lol: .

It's how I maintain pride while submitting to greater knowledge :lol:

Just for my own info, do you agree that one could create line produced variants similar and/or identical over generations? Or would the original gene, like the "yellow" Calvus gene, have to be present first for it to be produced and isolated through line breeding? Like Red hair in humans.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I have no idea. Hey no one knows everything. 8) I guess yep it should be possible but no idea how long it would take. Prob quite a few generations (5+?) and with Altolamps each generation being about 5 years that is a very long time. Very quick to destroy a variant very slow to biuld a new one or rebiuld one would be my guess. But a guess all the same. :wink:


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

All the more reason to keep the wild lines/variants/locations pure right?! (Says the guy with a half WHite Calvus, half Buescheri swimming around this minute! :lol: ) IMO, you are one of the reasons this forum is awesome 24!


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## endoice (Feb 1, 2012)

I can't seem to find any BCWP anywhere locally. Seems like Razzos the only one with them.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

You won't likely find any truly wild congos for some time due to the DRC's political situation. Most of the "Wild" Calvus come from Zambia due to the fact that there is a convenient port in Zambia. I think I have heard of WC "Congos" being exported from the border of Zambia/DRC and that might make them "Congos" but the "Black pectoral" and the "BCWP" have been impossible to find wild for some time now, probably because they're found further north in the congo which I've heard is closed for the time being?


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## TF Steve (Nov 21, 2011)

OP, I bought 8 of these guys (A. Calvus Black Congo) at around 1-1.5 inches. They all looked much like your fish (larger pearls the only difference) when they came in. After 5 weeks in the tank, there is a noticable difference. The largest looks very much like a Black Congo with 5 others still lighter than him but, by far, darker than when I first got them. My 2 smallest fish still look similar to the fish in your picture. Give them time, I'm sure they'll settle in.

Dechlorinate water in a "fish tank only" bucket ($2.50 at home depot) and let it sit for 30 minutes before putting it in your tank. Smaller water changes more often. More hiding places. The Calvus will appreciate it.

Wild Juvi's? Sounds... fishy!


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## TF Steve (Nov 21, 2011)

BioG said:


> You won't likely find any truly wild congos for some time due to the DRC's political situation. Most of the "Wild" Calvus come from Zambia due to the fact that there is a convenient port in Zambia. I think I have heard of WC "Congos" being exported from the border of Zambia/DRC and that might make them "Congos" but the "Black pectoral" and the "BCWP" have been impossible to find wild for some time now, probably because they're found further north in the congo which I've heard is closed for the time being?


BioG drops Calvus knowledge like a BOSS!


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

You wont see new wild shipments of Inkfin because Thortsen did not reveal where he discovered them when he sold out. No true Inks have come in from the lake since then.



BioG said:


> You won't likely find any truly wild congos for some time due to the DRC's political situation. Most of the "Wild" Calvus come from Zambia due to the fact that there is a convenient port in Zambia. I think I have heard of WC "Congos" being exported from the border of Zambia/DRC and that might make them "Congos" but the "Black pectoral" and the "BCWP" have been impossible to find wild for some time now, probably because they're found further north in the congo which I've heard is closed for the time being?


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

I heard a rumor that he found them were found somewhere, although it's a vast "somewhere", in north congo. Is that just speculation you think?

It always made sense to me since almost every other shore is regularly accessed by locals at least and thus they would have run into some by now?

I wonder if he found them off one of the islands?

If I were the type that enjoyed 50 hour plane rides followed by a 15 hour bus ride followed crocodile dodging adventures, not to mention machine gun fire, I'd scour the lake looking for black sand. The "Black Pec" has to be living over dark sand, dark rocks imo, and/or perhaps much deeper than the others.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

BioG said:


> I heard a rumor that he found them were found somewhere, although it's a vast "somewhere", in north congo. Is that just speculation you think?
> 
> It always made sense to me since almost every other shore is regularly accessed by locals at least and thus they would have run into some by now?
> 
> ...


If I could be guaranteed that I was getting "the real deal" Inkfin from the lake, I would be all over that deal making a BULK purchase!!! The reality is that true Inks *HAVE NOT* come in since TR sold and that is the truth.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

BioG, you may be right,... TR did go deep for Kapampa gibs :wink:


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I see WC Black Congos have dissopeared from UK lists (never were any inkfins there though)
Real pitty I lost my WC male now have a WC female may have to go F1 (yep seems someone is breeding them) to try and breed her.  
Hope someone is looking to export again soon but understand its prob dangerous to collect and any that might be exported to Europe tend to go to Germany where folk are willing to pay.
What I do not understand is why WC Congo fronts are still on the lists.
Dunno maybe old stock that has not sold?

All the best James


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

I have a tank full of F1 true inks from my own wild stock. Back when I bought my pair I had the option of buying 6 and I passed on it thinking I'd order later when I got more cash :roll:  

I'm keeping many of them as my wild parents are getting old. They used to breed like clockwork and now I'm lucky to get two broods a year.

If someone wants to fund a first class trip to the lake I'll go look for more true inks? :wink:

Here are my WC inks and their fry. The fry are now 2 years old and really getting chippy (Did I use "chippy" correstly 24? :lol









and the kids... (I'm a bit embarrassed tp show these pics with Razzos photos looming around the forum :lol: but all this talk of true inks again makes me want to show them off even if the photos don't do them justice. One of the down sides to "true inks" or, as I and a few others classify them, "Black Pectoral" is that the black pec fins don't manifest until sexual maturity. These "fry" are just now coming of age and trying to breed.








There are about 10 in the tank but they won't stand still so.... :thumb:

Unfortunately I have been unsuccessful forming harems with this variant? One of two reasons I think: 1.) they're just too aggressive to tolerate the additional females. 2.) The additional females I have are too young/small to tolerate the onslaught of the HUGE WC male (6")

I'm still hopeful but the male is pretty aggressive with the large wc female he's got so we'll see opcorn:


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

I think the WC female is guarding a shell full of eggs at the moment but she's fooled me before.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Cracking fish BigG wish you were closer to me.   
Hopefull getting 3 Altolamprologus calvus Nsumbu TB.
May not be the exact match to my "Congo Black Pearl" WC female but it seems the best I can do here. 

All the best James


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