# Fronts start out in 125 or a smaller tank



## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

Simple questions (I hope): when raising a group of C. frontosa/gibberosa to a breeding colony, do you start them out in their eventual 'full size' tank (125 gallon or higher) or in a smaller tank? I ask because they grow very slowly.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

I don't know that I'd call fronts "slow growing" - at least compared to most Tang cichlids. Within a year, they'll be happy to have the full size tank. Often, water quality can be easier to maintain in larger tanks, so you may see faster growth rates if you start with the 125. That said, if you don't mind moving fish around you can start with a smaller grow out tank. They'd be fine in a 4ft tank until they're a few inches long.


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## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

Think I'll just start them in the tank they'll finish with then. Thanks.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Fronts slow growing?

"Rule of Thumb" you can house ten front fry for a year in a 4-foot 75 gallon tank. If you can start them out in the 125 that would be best for many reasons.

Russ


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## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

In my other thread viewtopic.php?f=10&t=291842 , I posted this:

Showed my wife this video: 



 (Continuation of the last) and she said, 'well how much space would a 240 gallon take up?" So now she wants a similar set-up! Even has it placed in our dining room. I'm going to be on here asking a lot of questions - planning and getting ready for a setup like this- lol. :thumb:

So, any initial suggestions


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

That is Frank's tank and is a masterpiece.

My 240 gallon tank is eight foot long. I believe the eight foot 240 gallon tank to be the perfect size for frontosa. Mine is acrylic.

Best wishes on your journey to recreate Frank's tank. We shall all enjoy your updates.

Cheers,
Russ


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## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

Russ (et al),

I'd be glad to hear you thoughts on acrylic versus glass. It seems that acrylic runs about 75% more than glass but I know if is lighter and has some other benefits.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Tex Chappy said:


> Russ (et al),
> 
> I'd be glad to hear you thoughts on acrylic versus glass. It seems that acrylic runs about 75% more than glass but I know if is lighter and has some other benefits.


I had a 265 glass tank that required a Brut Squad (4) to move - never again. I have a 240 acrylic right now and my teen age son and I can move it. Anything big has got to be acrylic for me. If you have a Brut Squad that won't de-friend you, go glass if budget is a problem. I picked up my 240 acrylic with a crappy stand and even crappier hood for $500 used (I would have happily paid that for the tank!). It had scratches which is why I got the great deal. Once you learn how to polish/buff an acrylic tank you are i a good position to wait for great deals on used acrylic tanks. All those beautiful scratches make give the average person the idea that the value of the tank is not that much. Most scratched tanks can look brand new with a little effort. If you go this route, I'd be happy to help coach you. You will also need to learn what "crazing" is so you can avoid it when buying a used tank.

Acrylic also has a much higher insulation value than glass - you will use much less kW heating it and you will also not evaporate as much water. Acrylic will also absorb more shock without breaking/cracking than a glass tank will in case a kid throws a Tonka Truck at the tank. The acrylic will be much more crack resistant.

Hope that helps.


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## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

Thanks, just what I was looking for Russ.


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## NJmomie (Jan 17, 2013)

Tex Chappy said:


> In my other thread viewtopic.php?f=10&t=291842 , I posted this:
> 
> Showed my wife this video:
> 
> ...


Oh wow... that is an awsome tank.


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## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

And he has just about as awesome Tropheus tank that I want to emulate as well! Was just thinking about asking a question about it but I've flooded the forum with my questions enough already. I'm going back to the beginning (oldest) of the forum and reading my way forward to see how many of my own questions I can answer. So far I've read about 15 pages so just 158 to go.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Tex Chappy said:


> And he has just about as awesome Tropheus tank that I want to emulate as well! Was just thinking about asking a question about it but I've flooded the forum with my questions enough already. I'm going back to the beginning (oldest) of the forum and reading my way forward to see how many of my own questions I can answer. So far I've read about 15 pages so just 158 to go.


You wouldn't happen to have a quick link to Frank's Troph tank handy, would you? I'd like to check that out.

Thanks,
Russ


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## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

Ask and you shall receive: 




and







Razzo said:


> Tex Chappy said:
> 
> 
> > And he has just about as awesome Tropheus tank that I want to emulate as well! Was just thinking about asking a question about it but I've flooded the forum with my questions enough already. I'm going back to the beginning (oldest) of the forum and reading my way forward to see how many of my own questions I can answer. So far I've read about 15 pages so just 158 to go.
> ...


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## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

Just read a thread that suggested Benthochromis Tricoti as a tank mate for Fronts. Would they be a good substitute for the Cyps in the 240gallon in the video? *the ones I'm afraid would get eaten in my tank.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Tex Chappy said:


> Just read a thread that suggested Benthochromis Tricoti as a tank mate for Fronts. Would they be a good substitute for the Cyps in the 240gallon in the video? *the ones I'm afraid would get eaten in my tank.


Keep in mind that Franks tank has a rock wall with LOTS of plants and hiding placed for fish, especially at night when Fronts tend to prey. Tricoti have worked for many, and get larger than Cyps, so they may stand a better chance, or also may not find good hiding places at night, due to their size. It's a lot of hit and miss , IMO, when it comes to tankmates. The key is to establish other fish first, provide lots of cover, and then add the Fronts as babies or young juveniles.


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## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

I've continued to march forward on the forum. 130 more pages of threads to go. B. tricoti works for some as you said Floridagirl but they also seem to have drawbacks of their own. I looked at Frank Mueller's thread on the build and all the work that went into the background. I'm not prepared to go to that length; I wonder how well the 3D backgrounds available around would substitute.

I don't think any kind of Cyp would work for me. Now I'm wondering if the rock dwellers are worth the risk as well. Frank Mueller includes N. leleupi, A. compressiceps 'gold head', J. marlieri 'gombe', N. helianthus, and some Synidontis cats. So here's the question now at hand for the gathered minds of the forum: smaller front only tank and smaller (a lot smaller) tang community or the big shebang with the Fronts and the species just mentioned?

Thanks for all the answers so far and thanks in advance for the future,
Tony

PS Never thought Tropheus would be the easier tank (at least to figure out)


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Tex Chappy said:


> I've continued to march forward on the forum. 130 more pages of threads to go. B. tricoti works for some as you said Floridagirl but they also seem to have drawbacks of their own. I looked at Frank Mueller's thread on the build and all the work that went into the background. I'm not prepared to go to that length; I wonder how well the 3D backgrounds available around would substitute.
> 
> I don't think any kind of Cyp would work for me. Now I'm wondering if the rock dwellers are worth the risk as well. Frank Mueller includes N. leleupi, A. compressiceps 'gold head', J. marlieri 'gombe', N. helianthus, and some Synidontis cats. So here's the question now at hand for the gathered minds of the forum: smaller front only tank and smaller (a lot smaller) tang community or the big shebang with the Fronts and the species just mentioned?
> 
> ...


The 3D backgrounds look nice, but really offer no real hiding spots for fish. If you are interested in breeding Fronts, they really do best in their own tank. Many use a 125 with up to 7 fish being ideal, but I like them to have a bit more room. I have 8 in a 6ft 220 gallon. I may add two more females.


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## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

Then I might go back to Paracyps with Julies and/or Altos in my existing 30 gallon long.

Then I'd look at what size to get for the Fronts for my wife and (maybe) the Tropheus for me 

It would certainly make aquascaping the Front tank easier.


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## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

D'oh, keep rolling the options through my head. Though the breeding aspect makes for interesting watching, I don't really want to try to make money for the fry and would be quite content to let them 'roll' in the tank so generations could keep it going until I got ready to change it.


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## Tex Chappy (Dec 25, 2013)

Well, clearer headedness (I hope) is prevailing. When I started this journey, I kept telling myself not to go for 'what's the max I can do with this space' and instead think what's the ideal for the 'central' fish in any given setup. That said, I think I'm going to start thinking of what is the best setup for a sole species Frontosa/gibberosa tank. I also plan to aim for the same for the Tropheus tank and the 30 gallon tank for either Calvus or Julies.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Great plan. And then, where I am.......where the heck do I put all the fry.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Floridagirl said:


> Great plan. And then, where I am.......where the heck do I put all the fry.


Put them on a plane and ship them to their new homes (that's where you put them) :lol:


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Razzo said:


> Floridagirl said:
> 
> 
> > Great plan. And then, where I am.......where the heck do I put all the fry.
> ...


Haha


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