# Smaller 125 ltr/33 gal set up - advice please



## Nick_BFC (May 19, 2013)

Hello - first post here. I currently have a community set up in my Juwel Rio 125 tank (81 x 36 x 50 cm). I would love a Mbuna set up, but without moving furniture around and bringing the aquarium into our living room I can't expand tank size. Is it possible to create a nice Tang set up with my current tank? We really love the Mbuna yellows and blues, is it possible to achieve this effect with tangs in our set up? PH levels are naturally 8.2. Any help much appreciated


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Welcome to Cichlid-forum!

A 32" tank is a good size for a group of shellies and a small, peaceful rockdweller.

Tang coloration is subtle. You are not going to get the brilliant mbuna yellows/blues in Tangs.

I'd go for a pair of caudopunctatus (pearly body with yellow-orange dorsal and blue eyes) and a pair of calvus or julidochromis marlieri gombe (black and white patterns).

Note everyone asks about leleupi for it's orange color. Not a good fit for a 32" tank IMO.

If you want to try mbuna, consider Pseudotropheus saulosi with blue barred males and yellow-orange females.


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## Nick_BFC (May 19, 2013)

Thanks for your reply, I absolutely love the Pseudotropheus saulosi - are these a viable choice for my tank? If so, how many am I likely going to fit? Thanks.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

People have made it work. Buy 18 (or more) unsexed juveniles and shoot for a 3m:9f ratio. The three males may not work, but you can try. If you have to eventually go down to 1 male that should definitely work.

You buy 18 to get a 50% chance of getting the 9 females you need. Plan on rehoming 6-8 males as they mature and as you see how things go in your tank.

Note 9 fish will be yellow-orange and only 1-3 will be blue barred.


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## Nick_BFC (May 19, 2013)

That's great thanks, sounds doable then for sure. I am just a little nervous as my current set up is very nicely matured (plants & fish) so it's a risk for me getting rid of everything if it doesn't work


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## Shaky (Jan 2, 2003)

With mbuna, plants generally won't stand a chance.
In your tank, you could put a few N. tretocephalus (white, black, blue) and a few N. leleupi (yellow). They may not get along famously, but with enough rock retreats and rock shelves they usually don't injure one another. They will also leave your plants alone.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Agree you don't want mbuna if you want to keep the plants pristine (or at all).


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## Nick_BFC (May 19, 2013)

Cheers, if I go down the saulosi route, then I'd obviously move all my fish to another tank and also get rid of all the plants/bogwood and start afresh with rocks etc. I like my plants but prefer a clean look with the rocks only


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Regarding the plants, it depends on what you have. Basically stem plants are a no go with mbuna, but that still leaves a lot of room to play with. I have had good success with plants like Anubias, Java fern, Echinodorus, Cryptocoryne, Valisneria and Bolbitis. That doesn't mean all those plants will work with all mbuna, but by trial and error you can usually find a few that your fish will leave alone. Some slow growing, low light plants like Anubias can actually benefit from being kept with mbuna, because they clean algae off their leaves.

In another thread you inquired regarding a suitable filter for this tank. Ideally you would want something like an Eheim 2217 or another canister of that size. A cheaper solution would be a HOB, but I don't use those myself, and can't recommend a specific model.


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## Nick_BFC (May 19, 2013)

Thanks, I am happy to give the plants to someone else, part of the attraction of doing this is the clean look of it. Is my current U3 filter a definite no no then? If so, what is the best way to introduce the external? just move all my current media into the new filter, or run the U3 alongside the external for a while?


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

I have never used a U3 or similar filter, but just watched this YouTube video to see what we are actually dealing with. What I like about the U3 is the venturi feature. A venturi valve can provide excellent aeration, which is super important for an overstocked tank like the one you are planning. Canister filters like the Eheim 2217 I recommended don't come with a venturi valve by default. It can be added in form of the Eheim diffusor, which is a cheap accessory that not be too strongly recommended!

What I don't like about the Fluval U3 is that has a tiny media volume. If you continue using it, I'd expect you'd have to clean it with every weekly water change. That is definitely sub-optimal for maintaining a healthy colony of beneficial bacteria. That said, with good aeration from the venturi valve and sufficient surfaces from substrate and decoration in the tank for beneficial bacteria to settle on, you'd probably still be fine. Another downside of the U3 is that it takes up space in the tank. Not much, seeing how tiny the thing is, but 125 ltr is very small for mbuna, so every liter counts! Last but not least, especially in a small mbuna tank a good current can be very useful for aggression control. Obviously you don't want your fish to be swirled around the tank like in a blender, but having to swim against a good current can distract a bullying male and make him break off pursuit from a holding female. I have no personal experience with the U3, and how much of a current it can produce, but I have a hunch an Eheim 2217 with Eheim diffuser would be better. I am talking about Eheim canisters, because that's what I am using and familiar with. I dare say an equivalently sized Fluval would be just as good.


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## Nick_BFC (May 19, 2013)

That's very helpful thanks, guess I will see how I get on with the U3 with one eye on changing it for the Eheim. Decided I am definitely going to go ahead with this as I'll regret if I don't! Just need to find a supplier locally for the fish now. How much rock or slate would you recommend to use? I currently use play sand substrate, and don't really want to change - my PH is naturally high so I don't think I need to use anything else.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Sand substrate is great. How much slate is really up to you. Some folks swear by having lots of hiding places. Others say this is where a weak fish can be cornered and beaten up. There is probably a golden middle as always, and some trial and error might be required.


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## Nick_BFC (May 19, 2013)

Cheers! Thinking of swapping the tank over this coming Friday, my LFS has some pseudotropheus saulosi coral in stock. Do the males turn blue/purpleish, and the females stay orange, or do they turn yellow? I really like the blue/purple and yellow colours


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The females should stay the color they are. The coral color does not come from the lake, I believe. Maybe line bred.

The male color should be blue with black bars (not purple). Juvenile males will look like the females.


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## Nick_BFC (May 19, 2013)

Sorry yes I meant black bars  Are the yellow females standard Saulosi (non coral) then? Would I be able to have half and half in the tank as I like the orange and yellow. Sorry for all of the questions, quickly learning though  Off to get my rock today, then intending to do the fish swap on Friday this week.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would not mix them. Someone went to some trouble to line-breed (or hybridize) the coral colored ones. If you want saulosi that look like the ones in the lake I would not buy corals. Any fry would be a mix of the two which might make it difficult to sell or rehome.

The natural saulosi are yellow-orange...I don't think there would be a lot of contrast between the two types of females.


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## Nick_BFC (May 19, 2013)

Thanks for your help. I set the tank up this morning, and the new Saulosi arrived after  Will post some images later on.


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