# How long can a group of Jdickfeldi coexist w'out casualties?



## SarahJean (Oct 15, 2013)

Back in October, I set up a 30 gallon 36 x12x16 and was given 20 1" Julidochromis dickfeldi to grow out from a guy at the local fish club. The tank is set up with a few small rock piles, three short 2" pvc joints, and two small pot halves set up as caves.

He told me that they were relatively slow growers and the group should be able to co-exist for well over a year before I needed to start thinning out the numbers. He also said that a pair would form and I would need to remove the rest of them and keep the pair alone, but that wouldn't happen for a couple years.

I've found that they are actually growing faster than I anticipated, but there is a pretty big disparity in sizes. It seems that some of them are still barely over an inch and appear to have barely grown. Others are around 1.75" and seem to be growing quickly. This is causing the smaller ones to stay towards the bottom in the rocks and around the sand, my guess is they are not getting as much to eat as the larger ones that will venture higher towards the water surface when being fed. Two of the largest ones chase each other to opposite sides of the tank, one of them controls one of the small pots at one side, the second one controls a pvc joint at the opposite side. There is also a lot of fin nipping now, which I was told shouldn't happen yet. 

I'm starting to worry about if and when the smaller ones may start to get killed off. I was thinking about setting up a second 30, and giving the smaller 10 a separate home, but really didn't want to deal with a second tank just yet; or simply just give away some of the smaller ones and reduce the numbers down to about 8-10. Are the bigger ones most likely male or female? At current sizes, are the bigger ones capable of killing off the smaller fish? I'm also worried that smaller numbers would mean that the fish at the bottom of the pecking order will become concentrated targets of aggression, and won't have the benfit of smaller fish to disperse aggression among multiple targets.

With sizes ranging between 1"-1.75" how many can I reasonably keep in this 30 gallon?


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## AfricanLove (Jan 2, 2012)

Ill take a couple, haha. And if you feel its necessary you could setup another tank. Even a 10 will be better


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Reasonably? A Pair of them, two pair or a trio if you are lucky. Keep 2 of the Larger fish and 6 of the smallest. Provide 2 large shells or rockpiles on opposite ends of the tank, and see who pairs off.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

The differing growth rates are likely due to pecking order, stress, and crowding. Since julies tend to trickle-spawn, there's probably some small age differences playing a role, too. It's not clear at this stage which is male or female without venting, but the biggest ones are likely the meanest.

Stress is enough to kill fish, so yes, I'd be expecting some losses. I agree it's time to bring the tank down to a smaller number as Florida suggests.


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

If you can't move any PM me


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## Taratron (Mar 17, 2004)

i'd be glad to take some as well, give me a better chance to get a pair from my 6 current dickfeldi juvies!


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## SarahJean (Oct 15, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback.

I talked to the guy that gave them to me. They are actually a mix of offspring from three different pairs. He was surprised that some of them had nearly doubled in size in three months and was curious what I was feeding them.

Ironically enough, at last count, it seems one of them has disappeared since I made the original post. Hopefully it just didn't come out to feed. I'll be setting up a second tank to start cycling this weekend, probably a 20 gal long.

I did pull out the half pots since they were taking up a lot of space and added additional pvc pipe and rock. Hopefully, the additional hiding spots will help some.


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

Best of luck trying to get em all to survive, post up some pics of the setups!


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## SarahJean (Oct 15, 2013)

I didn't realize how much time had passed by. I meant to become an active member of the forum. But then, well life just got busy.

So eight months later. I split the original group up with 10 going into a seperate 20 gallon tank. The ten that were left behind are still in there, and fortunately without casualties.

Now I thought they were still too small to start breeding. But one day I noticed there were two on the right side of the tank, and the other eight stay on the left side of the tank. Apparently, the pair that formed on the right side of the tank have claimed the entire right half as theirs, and chase off intruders. Of the pair, the smaller one occassionally drifts over to the left side of the tank, particularly during feeding time.

The biggest surprise was seeing several .25" fry swimming around on the right side. I've counted seeing five at one time, though I'm uncertain if there are actually more that I just can't see. Most of them stay towards the bottom gravel, hide in the pvc pipe, and have been feeding off of crushed flake. I've also been dissolving frozen brine shrimp, mashing it up, and feeding. There is one that tends to drift away from the rock work and gravel.

You can see from the bottom pic that it likes to hover over the pvc pipe rather than hide in it. The pair is about 1.75" and about 2.5". If I remember what I read correctly, the larger one is the female and the dominant in the pair?

First pic, left side, refugees trapped on left side of the tank.

Second pic, right side, mama guarding her cave formation looking over one of the kids.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Nice! The algae growth on that pvc is a great place for grazing. That little julie knows what's what.

Congrats on the spawn, and thanks for the update!


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## SarahJean (Oct 15, 2013)

Now, I I'd like to get the other eight out and get a multi-generational colony going. My dilemma though, How do I get the other eight out without possibly taking out one of the pair when they start swimming all over the tank? I don't want to disrupt any of the rock work, particularly on the right side of the tank. I was told that if the rock formations change, the bonded pair could be disrupted.

Any ideas on how to extract without having to remove rocks and ensuring that I don't end up removing one of the pair.

At the latest, I saw six fry swimming around the last time I dropped mashed brine shrimp in the tank. They're all 1/4" and appear to be doing quite well.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

I would make a barrier/screen that fits in your tank, slide it in while the fish are on separate sides, and then work on the left side of the tank, removing rockwork as required to get the non-bonded fish out. I use a extra piece of egg crate lighting diffuser wrapped in a mesh bag for my 75G Mbuna tank. There are lots of rocks in it, and it helps to only remove one side. The other thing you might do is take some pictures of the left side of the tank so that when you put the rocks back in, you can more accurately recreate the original setup. I actually like redoing the rocks periodically as it gives me a chance to clean under them, and also keeps them sort of fresh in terms of algae growth, but I can see why you'd not want to disrupt the pairs bonding.


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

any updates in this?


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