# Pseudotropheus Species



## kasey06 (May 24, 2008)

Stocking question. Standard 55 gallon tank. I plan on having 3 species, the first being:
*Cynotilapia Afra Cobue
I have gone back and forth on the remaining species. I was thinking Pseudo. Saulosi and then a labrid. species. There isn't really a lab. species that I really really like. I know you don't want to have 2 species of lab. in one tank but would it be ok to have 2 species of pseudo. in one tank if kept in proper breeding group? There are quite a few I like....Any thoughts on that? Or perhaps a different species that would work with these 2:
*Cynotilapia Afra Cobue
*Pseudotropheus Saulosi
Thanks.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If you house two Pseudotropheus together, make sure you get those that look nothing alike.

I wouldn't do it, but if you choose carefully and get good male/female ratios, you might be okay.

I'm not sure how well the Cobue and saulosi males will get along, though.


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## kasey06 (May 24, 2008)

Are there any other species you could suggest? The only lab. species I like the looks of would be the Hongi but some look fairly similar in some way to the Afra Cobue. In another post others raised a little concern with the afra and saulosi but in the end said it could work and to go for it. I am open to other species suggestions....


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## jhunbj (May 16, 2005)

Ps. Acei or M. Cyaneorhabdos....


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Cobue males look great, but females are rather dull. I'd go with Cynotilapia White Top Galireya instead, the females are stunning, and the males are amazing.

I think you'd have better luck with them and the saulosi, also.


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## kasey06 (May 24, 2008)

After looking at the 55 gallon cookie cutter section again I may have found the 3rd species. What about:
Cynotilapia Afra Cobue(Favorite)
Pseudotropheus Saulosi
Metriaclima Estherae
Between these I would have quite a bit of color/variety. Any thoughts? They are all recommended on the cookie cutter page. I think this is the grouping I am doing. Will buy 6 of each and return/exchange any additional males as needed, etc. Good/Bad?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I've never kept saulosi with red zebra, but I would be worried about crossbreeding between those two species. Zebras are notorious crossbreeders.

It's really up to you. I tend to be a bit conservative as to what I will house with what. I just don't like to take any unnecessary chances. If it's a tank I don't plan on distributing any fry from, then I don't worry about it, but if you're interested in getting into some breeding, then it can make things a bit more difficult.


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## kasey06 (May 24, 2008)

I do not plan on breeding/selling any fry. I plan on just letting nature take it's course, if one or 2 happen to make it then they do. But I won't be selling them, etc. I want an active/colorful tank. I think this mix would give me that so unless there are big temperamant/compatibility issues I think this is what I will go with.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> I do not plan on breeding/selling any fry. I plan on just letting nature take it's course, if one or 2 happen to make it then they do. But I won't be selling them, etc. I want an active/colorful tank. I think this mix would give me that so unless there are big temperamant/compatibility issues I think this is what I will go with.


Add 3 Syn. Multi cats to your list and none of the fry will make it and they are a lot of fun to watch - the mbuna will ignore them and visa vera.

Edited because I can't spell...


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## kasey06 (May 24, 2008)

The petricolas are available in this area but not the multies. I was going to buy some of the petricolas.


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## Doane (Jun 19, 2007)

Okay, lemme ask a few questions regarding some aspects of the previous post. A lot of people say that they don't plan on selling fry to outside people but lets be realistic. You do not get into this hobby if you don't like fish. The thought of killing little baby fry simply because I wanted to have another fish in there is a terrible concept for me. From my experience Zebra's are ticking time bombs. I had a zebra that I loved, a great fish, until he matured. Then he was a constant terror on my tank. I now have him in a 10g waiting to find a good home.

IMO no one is going to kill fry because the aspect of seeing the parents raise the fry is way too tempting. While you may not plan on selling fish things happen and one day you may want out of the hobby. When that happens you may have to sell the fish. Please, for the sake of the hobby, listen to AMAZING people like Kim. She has been doing this for a long time and when I needed help with my tank she basically handed me amazing advice that I promptly ignored. I have since payed arms and legs for. I went back, read the posts she told me, followed her advise (with a few allowed changes) and I now sit down and watch my tank over TV.

In short, very few people will kill fry. Its almost impossible to keep your fish from breeding and even more impossible to tell hybrids until you have broken your back raising them. Having a "risky" mix is why most people end up leaving the hobby. Finally Kim is amazing, listen to her advise and you will enjoy your tank.


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Doane said:


> Okay, lemme ask a few questions regarding some aspects of the previous post. A lot of people say that they don't plan on selling fry to outside people but lets be realistic. You do not get into this hobby if you don't like fish. The thought of killing little baby fry simply because I wanted to have another fish in there is a terrible concept for me. From my experience Zebra's are ticking time bombs. I had a zebra that I loved, a great fish, until he matured. Then he was a constant terror on my tank. I now have him in a 10g waiting to find a good home.
> 
> IMO no one is going to kill fry because the aspect of seeing the parents raise the fry is way too tempting. While you may not plan on selling fish things happen and one day you may want out of the hobby. When that happens you may have to sell the fish. Please, for the sake of the hobby, listen to AMAZING people like Kim. She has been doing this for a long time and when I needed help with my tank she basically handed me amazing device that I promptly ignored. I have since payed arms and legs for. I went back, read the posts she told me, followed her advise (with a few allowed changes) and I now sit down and watch my tank over TV.
> 
> In short, very few people will kill fry. Its almost impossible to keep your fish from breeding and even more impossible to tell hybrids until you have broken your back raising them. Having a "risky" mix is why most people end up leaving the hobby. Finally Kim is amazing, listen to her advise and you will enjoy your tank.


I think the OP is not saying they will "kill" the fry, but instead let nature take its course. From what I have read on here, in order for fry to survive in a tank, you need to remove the holding female, let her spit in a separate tank, then remove her in 2 days so she doesn't eat the fry. Am I incorrect on this? I don't plan on doing any of that- I don't have a 2nd tank to transfer the females into.

BTW- I have red zebras and msobos- are they known for crossing? just curious


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## Doane (Jun 19, 2007)

Even if he does not kill them eventually some of them will survive, and at that point you have a hybrid breeding with other hybrids, or hybrids breeding with non-hybrids and it becomes a mess. At some point you need to be prepared to kill a fish out of a tank like that because the likely hood of them crossbreeding is huge. When I had my red zebra he would consistently attempt to breed with my labs. It was a never ending display. I am sure that some people here will tell you (as its also happened to me) every once and awhile I will be doing a large overhaul on my tank and find a little guy swimming about the bottom. Its impossible to say that it won't happen. When it does your left with two choices, kill the fish (not likely) or just let it do its thing (a bad option).


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## kasey06 (May 24, 2008)

Here is a question then. Why are they listed in the 55 cookie cutter set up and yet everyone is saying not to do it? All 3 of these species are listed there with no notes on to avoid certain mixes, etc. If it is so negative why suggest them together? Just a question....


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## Doane (Jun 19, 2007)

I have run into this problem before with the cookie cutter setups. What most of the cookie cutter setups are concerned about is the compatibility of the fish, not the risk of hybrids. Like most things, we learn a lot more about these fish as time goes on.

Here are some fun facts for you.
Yellow labs - Discovered 1985 - 23 years ago.
Saulosi - Discovered 1987 - 21 years ago.

The Below Link is From Feb 2008 - 19 new Deep Water Species From the Rift Lakes
http://umd.library.ingentaconnect.com/c ... 3/art00012

We still do not completly understand these fish and learn more every day. Last year Maxim reported that the "Sexiest Discovery of 2007" was that egg spots on fish have something to do with breeding. While this was reported last year, I have personally bought 2 fish that were holding that had eggspots.

While COMPATIBLE they are just not commonly recommended. Any breeder would tell you "species only". This is where we get into a really hard predicament. What I would tell you is we are continually learning about these fish, read as much as you can make your own decisions. I was told that a M. Esthrae would eventually become a monster but I loved the fish, he had never displayed aggression before. Like I said previously. He is looking for a new home.

Your going to make mistakes. IMO making mistakes that could have been avoided sucks. But each fish is different. Some may not try, some may. There are numerous threads on the terrible side of crossbreeding. Read them, make your decision.

EDIT: I just read that and I feel like it came off a little harsh, that was not my intention, I am simply encouraging you to get as much information into your own head before you make a decision. I had a thread a week or so ago trying to decide if Saulosi and Labs would crossbreed, I read what they said, and then made my own decision.


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## kasey06 (May 24, 2008)

Ok. So I will stay away from the M. Estherae. I definitely want the Cynotilapia Afra Cobue and I really like the looks of the Pseudotropheus Saulosi. So, I will has some blue and yellow from the Saulosi's and some variety with the Afra. What would be a good fish to go with those 2 with some decent color? Any females of a species that have some good color and would go well with these? Hopefully next month I will be setting up the tank.


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## kasey06 (May 24, 2008)

Here is a different question. There are a few Pseudotropheus species that are listed as mildly aggressive like the Acei. I know others on here have said with the Acei the M:F ratio isn't as important because of their aggression level. Would that be true of some of these other Pseud. species? As obviously the males are more colorful. Perhaps I don't get the Saulosi and get a species that I can have more than 1 male in my tank for the color? Good idea/bad idea?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No, only Acei, Demasoni and Yellow Labs are likely to be OK without regard to m:f ratio. This is partly because it's very hard to sex them, LOL. Those with colorful males should definitely have one only. Some people try to do 3 males for species like Saulosi or Peacocks with mixed success. Any additional males are likely to be subdominant and may not color up anyway.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

JenTN, I wouldn't keep red zebras and Msobos together, they would be very likely to crossbreed, IMO.

Doane, not sure what you are referring to here...



> IMO no one is going to kill fry because the aspect of seeing the parents raise the fry is way too tempting.


Mbuna won't "raise" their fry. They will eat them. :wink:

The truth of the matter is that no matter what you do in a tank as far as holding moms go, some will survive and grow up to reproduce. Hybrids are a bit confused in that area, and not too picky over who they spawn with because of their own mixed lineage.

IME, it's easier to eliminate the possibility of hybrid fry before it ever happens than it is to get rid of them once they are conceived. I don't like culling fish, so I don't put fish together that are prone to crossbreed. It's that simple for me.

Achieving good male / female ratios is a plus, but no guarantee when you're housing species together that are prone to crossbreed anyway. All it takes is one hyper dominant male of any species...


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## Doane (Jun 19, 2007)

I simply meant exactly what you were saying. Its way too fun for me to watch a female hold on to her eggs for 20 or so days and then when I finally strip her watching the fry grow up. I was more referring to the entire holding process.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Doane said:


> I simply meant exactly what you were saying. Its way too fun for me to watch a female hold on to her eggs for 20 or so days and then when I finally strip her watching the fry grow up. I was more referring to the entire holding process.


Good enough! Just wanted to clarify! :thumb:


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