# Furcifer or foai?



## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Are they the same? I've read what Konings has to say but I"m interested in what keepers think about color. memory tells me that "Foai (SP?)" are darker and richer blue but I'm hoping I am wrong.

What would you Furcifer and foai keepers say?

My Dilemma is this:

One week ago I bought a WC group Of Foai "Kachese" and the male has gone sick and died!   :x  I have a local source for F1 "Nyanza Lac" furcifer but I don't want to raise a bunch of them to find out there's little or no blue (I have seen many pics of "Furcifer" with blackish lyre fins and silver bodies). TIA!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2011)

i have a group of 8 foai kachese growing out.. im going to be getting rid of any extra males i have.. so if you keep your group i would sell you any of my extra males.. mine are tank raised from bluechipaquatics i assume thats where you got yours since *** never seen anyone else with them... they are about 3-3.5 inchs yet cant really sex them too good yet..


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Foai, in general, are the nicer looking fish (IMO). I did have some very nice Kigoma Furcifers though that combine the best of both fish (dark fins and yellow on top of the head).


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

I actually got mine from little africa but I may hit up BLue chip for replacements. :roll:


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## PrinceG (Feb 9, 2011)

noddy said:


> Foai, in general, are the nicer looking fish (IMO). I did have some very nice *Kigoma Furcifers* though that combine the best of both fish (dark fins and yellow on top of the head).


Could u please show some photo?


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

PrinceG said:


> noddy said:
> 
> 
> > Foai, in general, are the nicer looking fish (IMO). I did have some very nice *Kigoma Furcifers* though that combine the best of both fish (dark fins and yellow on top of the head).
> ...


Having a hard time with this. Trying to post a video but not much luck.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Not sure but I think in this case the names are interchangeable (by different folk and dealers) and they are the same fish.
Judging by my googling you should be fine on looks. :wink: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hamsgod/52 ... otostream/


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

BioG said:


> Are they the same? I've read what Konings has to say but I"m interested in what keepers think about color. memory tells me that "Foai (SP?)" are darker and richer blue but I'm hoping I am wrong.
> 
> What would you Furcifer and foai keepers say?
> 
> ...


They're very different in color. Only go with very reliable sources or be prepared to be disappointed. Insist of pics of adults or pass it by. I ended up with 'furcifer' sold as 'foai'. Foai have the deep body color and generally much more/darker color overall.

Just my .02


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... rmd%3Divns

http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=168
look the same to me :-?

I guess its important to find out wheather Nyanza-Lac has two species (C. furcifer in the shallower habitats and lighter colors, and C. foai in deeper waters with deaper/darker colours) or (as I think) just one species/variant.

All the best James


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

24Tropheus said:


> http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://cichlidenareal.ru/wiki/index.php%3Fvid%3D2800&ei=Eoj-Tee6KsGohAeH-tmbCw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDgQ7gEwBA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DCyathopharynx%2Bfoai%2BNyanza%2Blac%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3Dnn7%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GBfficial%26channel%3Dnp%26biw%3D683%26bih%3D379%26prmd%3Divns
> 
> http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=168
> look the same to me :-?


In the second link the fish has yellow on the cheeks, anal fin and on top of the dorsal, it also has a fair bit of copper colour in the flank. I don't see any of that going on in the first link.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Maybe thats a difference. Dunno if I would worry too much which one I had as long as its all that type. :wink:


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2011)

all featherfins are pretty much stunning thou.. cant really go wrong keeping any species.. i think ima pick up some juvies Ophth. Ventralis Mpimbwe Silver Streak soon


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## Jolly cichlids (Jun 19, 2009)

Heres foai Nyanza Lac http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... m4OAHoOQAQ


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2011)

how about foai kachese? i cant find any pics really of these guys... and mine havent colored up yet


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I've read what Konings has to say but I"m interested in what keepers think about color. memory tells me that "Foai (SP?)" are darker and richer blue but I'm hoping I am wrong.


Believe what Konings says, they're very different. It might not matter to some, but to me, they're not all the same any more than all tropheus are the same. Unfortunately many cyathopharynx out there are being mislabeled and fucifer and foai are being used interchangably. Some are even labeled with both names. Ultimately the name doesn't matter, but what they end up looking like to you may matter a great deal. If that's the case, then again, reliable sources only and ask for pics of adults. I personally find the foai more stunning than the furcifer. They have the marbling pattern and more color in the body than furcifer.


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## Creepy85 (Aug 26, 2009)

sorry, but donÃ‚Â´t trust that russian webpage like cichlidsareal.ru, they stole many pictures of diffrent keepers....they are so much wrong pictures about this variants. (this is not foai from nyanza lac, for sure...)

iÃ‚Â´ve been talking to the german featherfin specialist siegfried loose and he say to me, on the burundi coastline(Nyanza Lac, Magara, Resha, Rutunga...) still exsist one Cyatopharynx and this is C. furcifer.

The C. furcifer always have yellow spots in his face or a yellow cap.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

The "Furcifer Nyanza-Lac" (I've seen the adults in the flesh) has yellow in it it's fins (Anal and dorsal edge) so It's hard for me to believe the russian pic too. Only because, from what I've seen the "Foai" variant or species, by location seems to have consistency with the overall look of the same location furcifer only darker in it's presentation of the same pattern.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Are there any instances where the "Foai" variant doesn't mimic coloration of the "Furcifers" at the same location?

For example; C. Furcifer shows a slight yellow cap at Cape Kachese but all the pics of "C. Foai Kachese" are all blue with no cap.

It's so difficult to discern with Furcifer/Foai because the available pics seem to be loosely labeled. :roll:


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Foai do not have any yellow/orange on their heads, those fish are Furcifers. If you are seeing a pic of a "Foai Nyanza-Lac" that looks like a darker version of the Furcifer, it is a Furcifer and not a Foai.

creepy wrote:
"iÃ‚Â´ve been talking to the german featherfin specialist siegfried loose and he say to me, on the burundi coastline(Nyanza Lac, Magara, Resha, Rutunga...) still exsist one Cyatopharynx and this is C. furcifer".

I would pretty much have to accept this as fact.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

thanks!


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

The 2 species are surely different b/c they occur in the same location but at different depths.The furcifer/foai like my Kigomas must be a natural cross of the two or a furcifer that just happens to have black fins like a foai.Here is a pic of mine while close to breeding.All furcifers and foai won't have that much color on the body when not close to breeding.









BioG wrote :I actually got mine from little africa but I may hit up BLue chip for replacements.

Greg is a reseller and he buys from Chip.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

I had the same fish as dmiller, from all the info.. that I have found, the kigoma is the only fish that shows both Foai and Furcifer traits. As far as I'm aware, this fish has still not been put into one group or the other. If siegfried loose says that Foai are not found at Nyanza Lac, Magara, Resha or Rutunga, that's good enough for me.
I'll also add to what prov said re: Furcifers being sold as Foai, my kigomas were brought in as Karilani copper Foai from a well trusted seller. Mix ups also happen, I won't buy featherfin fry/juvies anymore unless the adults are on site.
P.S dmiller, great looking fish you have there.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

P.S dmiller, great looking fish you have there. Thanks Noddy

The furcifers from Magara is another location that is called furcifer/foai as well.They look like a Kigoma but even darker fins and no yellow cap at all which really throws a monkey wrench into the notion that all furcifers have a cap!!

I think the main difference between the 2 species is that foai have marbling of colors in the body while furcifer are more solid colors.Until their is more genetic research it is all speculation though.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

dmiller328 said:


> Until their is more genetic research it is all speculation though.


Agree. I for sure do not understand the ins and outs on this one at different locations.

I think most agree at Nyanza lac there is only one species but wheater it is for sure a C. furcifer or a foai I think remains a question. For sure it looks more like a furcifer but then the two species were only named where both exist together. Where only one is pressent we are just guessing?


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## Creepy85 (Aug 26, 2009)

this fish on the photo is a C. furcifer from the northern tanzania coast...looks like they collected around the kigoma area...


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