# Planted Cichlid tank questions



## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

Hey guys, I have a few questions about a planted tank with cichlids. Do I need special substrate for the plants and/or the cichlids? I recently added 9 fish to my tank, I know, too many at once, as well as a CO2 system to help my plants grow. The day after adding the 9 new fish, and 3 days after adding Co2, my water turned from cloudy to green. Since then, I have done a 15% and a 45% water change, reduced feeding and reduced light.

The tank is a Fluval profile 1000 (70 US gallons). I am using a Fluval 306 canister filter with the sponge, media, and carbon. I heard on a youtube video to remove the carbon, and replace it with more media, to aid with plant growth. Is this true?
My fish contains 2 Melanochromis auratus, 2 Yellow Peacock, 2 Snow White, 2 Acei, 2 Electric Blue Johanni, 5 Yellow Lab, 2 Kribensis, 2 Red Zebra, 3 Red Jewel, 3 Venustus, 3 Eureka Red Peacock, 1 Sailfin Pleco, 1 Common Pleco. I am using regular aquarium rocks right now.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

What is your CO2 concentration? Are you adding ferts? What is your wattage of lights? Bulb type? How long was the lights on? Nitrate and Phosphate levels?

"Do I need special substrate for the plants and/or the cichlids?"-- IMO, no.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

IME, it is difficult to have a planted tank with African cichlids. It can be done, but a lot of thought and effort has to go into picking plants and fish which are compatible. I have seen African Cichlid tanks with a plant or two in them, but generally the plants don't look good, and definitely don't look like the lush planted tanks I've seen. As a general rule, most African cichlids prefer hard water, and most plants grow better in softer water. I keep both planted tanks and fish only tanks, and IME the tank needs to go one way or the other - or either the plants or the fish suffer.

If you insist, you are going to want to seek out hard water plants, for example some Valisnera (sp?) work well, java fern also may work. The other thing to be aware of is many of the Mbuna and possibly others from Malawi will eat the plants. So not only do you need to find plants which will grow in hard water, they need to taste bad too. 

As to the filter media - I only run carbon after I've medicated the tank. It is not a bad idea to remove it, though I'd do it for other reasons than to help plant growth. It may help the plant growth, but I don't think it is a growth inhibitor.

What is your lighting?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Was the tank cycled before you added fish?

The CO2 is going to lower the pH of your water. You've got a mix of fish from different locations but many of them (the ones from the Rift Lakes) are not going to respond well to the increased acidity. Some of them are also going to want to eat your plants.

Whether you need special substrate for the plants depends on what type of plants you have.

Your green algae bloom is likely a result of you creating the ideal conditions (CO2, nutrients from fish waste and light) to produce growth but you don't have nearly enough fast growing plants to take advantage of it. The algae has little competition and is thriving.

You need to decide if you want a high tech planted tank or a Rift Lake setup. I'm not sure you can do both.

Also, oxygen may be getting depleted in the tank with the green algae and CO2. I would turn off the CO2 and get some surface agitation happening so you don't kill the fish.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

nodima said:


> As to the filter media - I only run carbon after I've medicated the tank. It is not a bad idea to remove it, though I'd do it for other reasons than to help plant growth. It may help the plant growth, but I don't think it is a growth inhibitor.


If you're adding ferts, which you need to if you have a properly set up high tech planted tank, you need to remove the carbon from the filter so the added nutrients get to the plants.


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## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

Wow, I am overwhelmed with the quick responses.

I am doing 2 bubbles every 3 seconds for CO2, I have had it off for two days now. Only adding Seachem flourish excel right now, didn't yesterday though.
I have 4 T5 HO at 39 watts each. I was having the lights on from 9:00am till 10:00pm. I did order a power bar with a timer. Yesterday the light was on for 5 hours.
I don't have anything to test phosphate with, but nitrates were at 20ppm as of Nov 13.
I have lots of Java Fern, 2 moss balls, and some anubius and some other plants. 
I do have a bubble wand adding additional oxygen and surface agitation. So far no casualties

I am going to be ordering some texas holey rock to aid with the pH. Should I add drift wood as well? I read that it would be beneficial for the pleco's

Doing water changes every two days, to get rid of the algae water, between 15-40%


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Couple more thoughts:

You have high light, but low light plants. Your lights are on waaaaay too long - the photo period should be closer to 8 hours, and I'd question if you need all those bulbs for your set up.

The bubble wand is generally not advised when using CO2, as it increases surface agitation which causes off-gassing of CO2.

For comparison, my 75 is densely planted, and I'm using 3 T5 HO bulbs with great reflectors, and only have them on 7.5 hours a day, and still am fighting some algae.

My observation is that you are throwing a ton of money and technology into a losing situation - posting the questions you are is a good start. I'd also recommend doing some reading on the planted tank forums for basics of keeping planted tanks.


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## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks for the information. I will reduce light to 6 hours a day till the algae problem is resolved, then go to 8 hours. I'll only turn one set of lights on.

what do you recommend for surface agitation if I remove the bubble wand?


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Typically, planted tanks have a reduced fish bio load, and the plants help provide oxygen, I try to avoid surface agitation in my planted tank to reduce CO loss. In my Cichlid tanks, I try to aim a filter outlet at the surface to create ripples.

In regards to your light idea, that is a reasonable starting point - but every tank is different, and you should be prepared to further adjust the lighting - depending on where you end up with on the planted side, one bulb could be enough, or all of them may be. The nice thing about plants is that they can visually show you what is wrong, but the signs are not always easy to learn.


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## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

My wife doesn't like this idea, but im gonna move my plants to the 45 gallon tank that we were gonna sell, and then just get more rock and driftwood for the cichlid tank.


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## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

2 days ago


today after 50% water change, also removed lots of the plants and the CO2


moved the plants into the 45 gallon bow front, and added CO2


and for fun, my 30 gallon with my goby dragon


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

I would leave the CO2 off on the 45G. CO2 is useful if you have a tank that is heavily planted with fast growing plants and lots of light and added nutrients. The plants you're growing don't need CO2.

This is what my high tech tank looked like to give you an idea of how much you need to plant if you're using CO2 and want to win the battle against algae. I probably should have planted even more heavily.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

I think you'll be a lot happier keeping separate plants and cichlid tanks. And it means more tanks, which is always good. Except, perhaps in your wife's eye.


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## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

I feel like im making progress with water changes, reduced feeding and reduced lighting. Did another 40-45% water change today


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## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

Did a 60% water change on Sunday. Was gonna do another one yesterday but the tank is finally clearing up on its own so I left it. No chemicals used! Lights are on a timer now, they stay on for 6 hours, and only 2 of the 4 go on


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## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

Tank is back to green. Been keeping up with 50% water changes twice a week. Im assuming there's phosphate in my tap water, but weird that my other two tanks are both clear, in fact, i added 5 gallons of green watwr to my 45 gallon tank and it did nothing to the water quality in that tank.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

OK, starting now. Wat kind of lights (spectrum). How many watts? How long lights are on? CO2 changed?


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## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

tanker3 said:


> OK, starting now. Wat kind of lights (spectrum). How many watts? How long lights are on? CO2 changed?


Fluval T5 39 watt, 2 of the lights are on for 5 hours a day now. CO2 has been removed from the tank for a few weeks already, plant count has been reduced. Added texas holey rock and a piece of drift wood during the last water change, water was green prior to adding both


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

When you say only 2 of the lights are on, you mean you have 78 watts of lights? 39watts each bulb, only 2 bulbs on? Plant count reduced? How many and what plants are left? Is the tank near a window? 
What are your Nitrate and Phosphate level?


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## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

There are 4 lights on the tank, I only have 2 on for 5 hours, so yes, 78 watts. I only have java ferns left in there, maybe 15-20 sprouts. Tank is near a door with a window, but I have a towel covering the side that's exposed to the window. Nitrate was 5.0 when last tested. I don't have phosphate test yet, the fish store didn't have any when I went today, so I'll order one online. I also added Fluval clearmax to my canister today. Also bought more carbon and polishing pads if the clearmax doesn't do anything


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

This does not make sense. Algae needs 2 things to grow, light and nutrients, but you do not have a lot of either. Your lights MUST be wrong. What is the "K" rating of the bulbs? 6500K would be best. If not, change bulbs. Maybe also buy some SeaChem Excel.


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## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

They don't have a kelvin rating on them, ill contact fluval to see if they know.


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## abe.teichroeb (Nov 15, 2015)

they're 12,000k. The clearmax did nothing to the clarity of the water, I replaced the carbon in the filter this week when I did a water change, its been 2 days since, and hasn't shown improvement


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