# need suggestions to reduce standpipe noise



## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

Hi, have built a skimmer/overflow for a 75gal. out of acrylic and am using 1" PVC for "U" tube and outlet. Working like a charm. Have great balance between inflow/outflow. Tank is in a bedroom though and I could use some ideas about reducing the noise caused by the combination of air/water leaving the overflow box. Have a durso type standpipe currently but its producing about the same amount of noise as say.... a double HOB pouring into a tank 1" low.
Thanks in advance for any ideas.


----------



## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Build a false wall that the tank can be "pictured" in. Use fiberglass insulation in the false wall to absorb the sound. You may be able to access the tank from a door added behind the tank through the existing wall or somewhere in the new wall. If the access door goes into a nonsleeping area, that's best since sound will pass through the door easier than through a sound insulated wall.

There are whole websites about reducing the noise of standpipes, but in a bedroom, none will be enough. Durso sells his stand pipes on his website but he also shows you how to make them yourself so it's worth the visit. You might be able to troubleshoot your Durso and see if you can quiet it down.


----------



## Hambiscuit (Aug 22, 2009)

Did you drill a small hole in the top of the durso above the water line? Mine is very quiet. I followed the instructions on the durso site and made it out of PVC.


----------



## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Build a false wall that the tank can be "pictured" in. Use fiberglass insulation in the false wall to absorb the sound. You may be able to access the tank from a door added behind the tank through the existing wall or somewhere in the new wall. If the access door goes into a nonsleeping area, that's best since sound will pass through the door easier than through a sound insulated wall. 
:lol:

The only way I ever got a 100% silent overflow, was to put a gate valve on the line. 
I put it just before the line entered the sump. A ball valve will work, just harder to fine tune.
You will get a sight reduction in flow as you dial in your "quiet factor".


----------



## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

I am using dual home-made stockman standpipes on my wet/dry, and it's extremely quiet at around 500 gal/hr. After I tuned them, the only noise left was from the water splashing onto the spill plate, so I added some floss type media to help quiet it some more. I also carpeted the inside of my stand which made a huge difference. Is most of your noise coming from the overflow or from the sump area?


----------



## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

First of all I want to say I'm bummed because I didn't get any email notifications that anyone had responded to this post. I came to the forum tonight to browse a bit and bump this post. Thanks for all the responses thus far.

Building a false wall........ not an option at this time.

Have a hole drilled in the floating cap on top of the standpipe. The cap in place does indeed reduce the noise dramatically. Currently the noise appears to be coming from the air/water mixing at the mouth of the standpipe...... its the combination sucking-gurgleing noise. Am very happy with the lack of noise coming out of the sump. Had some filter floss cut to minimize noise from U-tube section of box spilling over to durso side of box, but didn't have to use it since its not making any noise.
Standpipe has holes drilled in the sides with a floating cap that has a hole drilled in it to allow air in.
My wife is sleeping right now or I'd turn the thing on and try to post a photo.... of the standpipe... not my wife sleeping. :wink:

I'll try the gate valve next I guess and post a photo when its safe to turn everything on.
Thanks everyone


----------



## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> I'll try the gate valve next I guess and post a photo when its safe to turn everything on.


Funny how things go easier, without that pair of eyes boring into the back of your head
:lol:
Guess you have already passed through the "What do you need that for" stage..
Full speed into " Will it *ALWAYS* make that noise?"


> Working like a charm. Have great balance between inflow/outflow.


Congrats on that..shows you did some thinking before assembly.


----------



## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

KaiserSousay!.......Clearly... You've been to MY House.

OK lets give posting photos on the forum a go. First I'll post pics with nothing running so you can see more clearly whats there. First the box inside the tank. Excuse the 1/4" tubing its still there just incase when I turn things on the pvc welds have let air in. So far so good.. still...










Photo of standpipe with cap, have tried the holes up and holes down no difference in noise produced. Yes, the bulkhead is grey. Its an electrical conduit bulkhead with a lav sink tailpiece washer added.










Simplified plumbing between the overflow box and sump. Gate valve is not the one KS is talking about, its just for easy water changes. Had quick connect fittings earlier in the build but got rid of them because they dripped and because they were the type for garden hose which is 3/4" and it restricted the flow too much.










OK took the photos plugged in the pump and here we go. Water in the skimmer box.









Overflow and standpipe running with intended standpipe orientation, took the cap off the standpipe with the hope of the photo capturing the mixture of air and water inside the pipe. Standpipe isn't glued to the fitting so I can experiment some more. Have tried turning it upside down which simply results in more fall from the u-tube chamber to the standpipe chamber, no change to standpipe noise.









Here's a photo of the standpipe, I was thinking of drilling some more holes in it in the hope that there'll be less air and less noise but I think thats more an act of desperation at this point.









Do you guys see any way to change what I have to minimize noise? Mind you, I will add a gate valve as KS suggested earlier.


----------



## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

OK, Here's what appears to be bizarre behavior. If you look at the second photo in the reply above you'll see there's a hole drilled in the top of the cap on top of the standpipe. Just out of curiosity I reached in and covered the hole with my finger to see if that would reduce the noise. It did of course, but then I noticed something that struck me as odd. 
I would expect with less venting that the water volume draining would slow down but in fact exactly the opposite occured.
Its really got my curiosity up, any Mr. Wizard types out there who can "throw me a bone" on this one?


----------



## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

WillieB said:


> OK, Here's what appears to be bizarre behavior. If you look at the second photo in the reply above you'll see there's a hole drilled in the top of the cap on top of the standpipe. Just out of curiosity I reached in and covered the hole with my finger to see if that would reduce the noise. It did of course, but then I noticed something that struck me as odd.
> I would expect with less venting that the water volume draining would slow down but in fact exactly the opposite occured.
> Its really got my curiosity up, any Mr. Wizard types out there who can "throw me a bone" on this one?


Water weighs more than air, so if you reduce the air in the mixture, there is more weight in the pipe, creating a siphoning effect. I used to get that effect, siphoning out my 520 with a 1 1/2" hose. It would fit in the drain of the utility tub installed by the tank. If the pipes under the tub filled with water they extended the fall of the siphon to below the floor and the flow would increase dramatically.


----------



## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

I am confused. It looks like you've drill holes in your stand pipe below the coupling. In order to work correctly, your setup needs to look something like this:










Note that the water is forced up betweeen the coupling and the standpipe. If there are holes below the coupling, it won't work (tried it)  I am running a very similar home made version of this with great luck. I didn't put the adjustable air valve, but, I had to drill 2 very small holes in the cap in order to tune the pipe. The hole you drilled looks rather large compared to what I've got. If you'd like, I'll dis-assemble and post some pics this evening.


----------



## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

Photos of your set up would be most helpful. I've just got a 1 1/2 cap floating on the top of the 1" pipe and you are correct the holes are lower than the cap as it rests on the top of the 1" pipe. 
From your diagram I'd guess your coupling is a 2" slip to 1" slip fitting, is that right? It would need to act like a float though right? and slide up and down the pipe as water level changes? Or is it glued at a fixed position?

Also, I like the idea for the adjustable air valve. I think I may have an extra powerhead part that could work there. It seems it would aid in getting the in/out flow rates balanced (to keep the pump in the sump from running dry) With my current set up that was a function of the number of holes I drilled in the pipe and trying different pumps...oh and completely changing the piping above the filter portion, trying different size tubing for the inlet side, spray bar etc.. :drooling:


----------



## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

WillieB said:


> Photos of your set up would be most helpful. I've just got a 1 1/2 cap floating on the top of the 1" pipe and you are correct the holes are lower than the cap as it rests on the top of the 1" pipe.
> From your diagram I'd guess your coupling is a 2" slip to 1" slip fitting, is that right? It would need to act like a float though right? and slide up and down the pipe as water level changes? Or is it glued at a fixed position?
> 
> Also, I like the idea for the adjustable air valve. I think I may have an extra powerhead part that could work there. It seems it would aid in getting the in/out flow rates balanced (to keep the pump in the sump from running dry) With my current set up that was a function of the number of holes I drilled in the pipe and trying different pumps...oh and completely changing the piping above the filter portion, trying different size tubing for the inlet side, spray bar etc.. :drooling:


Ok, I see what the problem is then. All of the holes below the coupling defeat the purpose of the standpipe design. The coupling should be glued to the stand pipe as the water level in your overflow box and tank should never change (only the level in the sump due to evaporation).
I can't remember what coupling size I used, but it was the largest that would fit in my Eshopps overflow box and work with my 1" PVC. I'll get back to you tonight on that when I get home. I would reccomend measuring your overflow box and then getting the largest coupling that will fit (within reason). I believe the diagram shows a 2" coupling, but mine is much smaller so it will fit. Just make sure that you leave a couple of inches between the hole in the stand pipe and the top of the overflow box so that you don't cause a flood.

I personally believe that the adjustable air valve is overkill. You should be able to tune the pipe by drilling small holes (5/64") in the cap. I would just purchase an extra set of caps in case you screw up, but it's pretty simple. If you still hear an occasional (like every 5-15 minutes) gurgling noise, then drill another small hole. Once you have eliminated this noise, you should never have to mess with tuning again. For this reason, I don't like the adjustable valve because it could get bumped which would result in a need to re-tune the pipe.

I am curious about your comment on "balancing the in and out flow rates". :-? As long as your overflow can keep up (more flow) with your pump, then you should be ok. If your flow rate on your overflow exceeds you pump (which it should), then everything will even out as your sump fills and lowers the level in your tank. If your sump is running dry, then you need to add an additional overflow box or get one that is rated for more flow than your pump. Another option would be to put a ball valve in the return line to the tank to throttle you pump back, but I don't like this as I prefer a higher flow rate which equals better water movement in the tank.


----------



## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

The "balance" comes into play when the pump out of the sump, pushes water faster than it can drain out the standpipe back to the sump. If there's not enough water in the entire system the pump winds up pushing air and its bad for the pump. If you simply add more water to the system when that happens then the tank overflows because water is being added to the aquarium faster than it can drain out the standpipe.

I was going to simply add a gate valve (not the one KS mentions above) to the line between the pump and the tank, but then that defeats the target of 6X-10X water change per hour. Already scaled down the pump and currently am getting 8X drainage out the standpipe as it exists now.

Thanks for your input, I'm hoping it will prove helpful. Need to get to a plumbing supply house to get the recommended fitting in order to try it out though.


----------



## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

WillieB said:


> The "balance" comes into play when the pump out of the sump, pushes water faster than it can drain out the standpipe back to the sump. If there's not enough water in the entire system the pump winds up pushing air and its bad for the pump. If you simply add more water to the system when that happens then the tank overflows because water is being added to the aquarium faster than it can drain out the standpipe.


What you need to do is Tee off the pump return, from the sump to the display, back to the sump and spill this extra volume back to the sump to balance the system. Put a gate / ball valve here to fine tune as req'd.


----------



## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

WillieB said:


> The "balance" comes into play when the pump out of the sump, pushes water faster than it can drain out the standpipe back to the sump. If there's not enough water in the entire system the pump winds up pushing air and its bad for the pump. If you simply add more water to the system when that happens then the tank overflows because water is being added to the aquarium faster than it can drain out the standpipe.
> .


I understood what you meant about "balance", however, you can remedy this issue by adding another overflow, a larger overflow, or scaling back your pump GPH with a valve. It's whatever you prefer, but if you want a higher flow rate, then get an overlow box that exceeds your pump GPH.

OK, I've taken some pics, so I hope they help. I'm not 100% sure of all the dimensions, so measure your overflow box and see what'll fit.

Here is the pic of my home made stockman standpipe. For reference, the whole assembly is about 10" tall. Parts from bottom to top are as follow:

1. Roughly 1-1/8" ID PVC that came with my Eshopps dual overflow box. Note that I wrapped it in teflon so that it seals at the bottom of the overflow box.

2. Coupling to attach to STD 1" ID PVC (you don't need this unless you have a stupid non-standard pvc piece like I do). This is a standard coupling, but I wrapped it with teflon and glued it so it would fit.

3. STD 1" PVC. This piece goes through the 1-3/4" ID / 2" OD coupling (4). It has a cutout (about half of the pipe for plenty of flow) about 1" above the bottom of said coupling.

4. Coupling 2" OD (as large as I could fit in my overflow box). You can see the ring where the constant water level is (4" below the top of my overflow box).

5. Bushing - slip or threaded will work because this piece is glued to the 2" OD coupling (4). I had to file the inside of this piece with a dremel so that the 1" STD PVC would slide through to the cap.

6. Cap with 5/64" holes drilled in the top for "tuning". This cap is glued to the 1" STD PVC (3) with the cutout about 1/2" above the bottom of the coupling.

Note that there are no holes below the coupling. The silencing effect works because the water is forced up throught the coupling and the airflow is controlled.










Here is a pic looking at the pipe from the bottom. Note that the gap between the pipe and the coupling is only 1/4".










Here is a pic of the cap on the top. It took three 5/64" holes to "tune" the pipe. With two holes, I would get a gurgling sound like from a bathtub drain, but now it's super quiet. :dancing:










Here is a pic looking down at the overflow box with both standpipes. I have a mag drive pump that's rated at 900 GPH / 500 GPH @ 4' below the water level, so I went with a dual overflow setup which "balances" (exceeds) my pump return flow rate.


----------



## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

I like all of the ideas so far. The dual overflow makes way too much sense and the photo's you provided are better IMO than the ones provided on the web for that design. I get it.

Earlier on I had to redo the piping used to disperse the water above my "stack-o-filter" drawers better. If I use the dual overflow design, I think I can add some more filtration to my system even.

I think I'll redo the standpipe first and when I get the design down and its quiet....Move this assembly to another tank (insert evil laugh here)... Then redo the overflow box for this tank to make it a dual output like yours..... and I could always use a few more gate valves....AND I can put my Monster pump back into this sump.. get the target flow rate..... Life IS Good!

Thank you all so much for your help and especially fish_addiction for taking the time to post photos. =D>


----------



## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

One other approach, masking the sound. There is a 24 hour rainforest sound loop that provides a subtle background "white noise". Very peaceful at night although there is a troop of monkeys that make some lunch time ruckus.


----------



## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Mcdaphnia said:


> One other approach, masking the sound. There is a 24 hour rainforest sound loop that provides a subtle background "white noise". Very peaceful at night although there is a troop of monkeys that make some lunch time ruckus.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

WillieB said:


> I like all of the ideas so far. The dual overflow makes way too much sense and the photo's you provided are better IMO than the ones provided on the web for that design. I get it.
> 
> Earlier on I had to redo the piping used to disperse the water above my "stack-o-filter" drawers better. If I use the dual overflow design, I think I can add some more filtration to my system even.
> 
> ...


Right on :thumb:


----------



## morfeus077 (May 9, 2009)

I HAD the same problem... pushing 1400+ gph through my dual tube overflow box and no design seemed to help quiet it down. Me being a DIY'er, I decided to rebuild the overflow box on the back and incorporate durso standpipes.

I started with the one I bought at the LFS. It has 2 u tubes and 2 standpipes with 3 chambers. The box wasn't large enough to get the standpipes low enough in the 2 final chambers of the overflow box. I had some acrylic and weldon #16, so away I went! I first built a new box very close to what I purchased, except I made it wider and taller: 13" W x 14" T x 4.5" D. I made it so that the first chamber where the u tubes dump into were the same height on the back of the tank. I used that as the height that the durso would be used in with a drilled tank.

My durso style standpipes vary slightly from the design they call for on their website, in that I used 1" pipe instead of 1.25". Another advantage that I've already seen is that feeders and other organic debris do not get stuck in the overflow box and reduce flow - which is not the case with the traditional drilled, slotted or sleeved style (pictured above) standpipes. With my durso pipes, anything smaller than 1" in diameter travels right down to the sump or collects at the bottom of the final overflow chamber for later removal.

For those wondering, the flow is the same as any other standpipe design, which is controlled by the supply of the return.

WOW is all I can say... no more noise! The difference is night and day.

Here's a photo of it in action...


----------



## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

Had a major setback. The weight of the overflow box seems to have caused the back glass to fracture. I've got full contact between the tank and the stand. The fracture seems to have begun at the top of the glass beneath where one support band was located. (support band= piece of acrylic heated and formed and used to connect the overflow box and the skimmer box)

Taking the tank to a glass shop in the next couple of days to get a quote for fixing it. 

So morfeus077... could I talk you into posting some more pictures of your overflow box. Not entirely sure I understand the details of what your post is describing. I have some cell cast acrylic on the way and would like to better understand your design before I start rebuilding.
Thanks


----------



## kjhydock (Apr 28, 2009)

Ouch. That really sucks. I hope it works out for you.

I couldn't gather from the posts if you had worked out the noise issues. I have always used the gate valves as KS had suggested. I have a dual 1" (I think) Durso standpipe setup running about about 1400gph. The only noise I hear is a little splashing in the sump and the hum of the pump. I have the valves a few inches of PVC under the tank, then go to flex tubing on the other side to the sump.

Found an older picture of it from when I was still cycling. You can at least see one of the gates.


----------



## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

Don't have a quote yet from the local glass shop on repairing or replacing the back glass. Got the single standpipe rebuilt as suggested initially the day before the crack occured the same night. There was a dramatic reduction in noise for the few hours it was running. I'm guessing the portion of the box that the u-tube emptied into was too large and adding too much weight. Have more cell cast on the way so I can rebuild using a double standpipe design figuring that there will be less weight if the water spends less time in the overflow box. 
Thanks for posting a picture of your sump area.
I'm going to the glass shop tomorrow along with a few other errands, hope they don't want to eat my lunch. My babies are growing out fast and I really need the extra tank space soon.


----------



## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

I was lurking around tonight and found this website.. Note the air tube that goes in the top of the PVC Cap. it runs inside the standpipe to below the water flow... this might help..


----------



## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

Sorry about the post above it was late and I did not ever post the link 
Look below.

http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/index.html
tell me what you think.


----------



## canajunay (Dec 31, 2009)

if you have a dremel you may want to try removing some extra material from the standpipe. one benefit is you'll get more GPH flow rate, but smoothing the transitions from square to rounded will quiet the flow of water.


----------



## BenHugs (Jan 13, 2007)

Great timing on this thread. I'm trying to tune my stand pipe as well. :thumb:


----------



## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

So far the boss lady is very happy with the lack of noise from the over flow. I have been using the HGB on a triple overflow with no problem.. If something reduces the flow it make a lot of noise. ie when two of my small yellow labs got sucked into the box and over the tube and almost into the sump. I heard the noise and went to investigate and found two unhappy fish in the back..


----------



## Cichlidude (Feb 7, 2010)

This may work for you. All you need is some air tubing...


----------

