# Calvus woes....



## Fiona_says (Oct 14, 2008)

I need advice on how to keep Calvus alive. I have tried two so far in my 55G tang tank (both about 3/4" of inch long/paid $20-25 each for them.) The first I acclimated and released immediately into the tank. 2 hours later he was MIA, never to be seen again. The second I kept in a floating tank in the main tank. He did very well for several weeks, eating, hiding in a shell, surviving a couple of water changes. Then I did a water change, checked 10 minutes later and he was as dead as a doornail. I had done nothing differently. Added the needed chemicals, checked the water temp, did 15 out of 55 gallons. The only other casulties in the tank have been related to physical damage from faulty equipment, so I feel I have adeqate filtration and keep the water quality healthy.

I set the tank up with the express purpose of having Calvus; I think they are very cool. The tank is about 6 months old. While I enjoy the other fish in the tank, the thought of not having any Calvus is rather disappointing. After my two failures, however, I am scared to try again.

The other fish in the tank...
1 Gold Ocellatus
1 Blue Ocellatus
2 Brevis
3 Leleupi
3 Caudopunctatus red fin (2 of which will shortly move to a 10G with their fry)
Julidochromis marlieri
Julidochromis transcriptus
(The Julies paired off.....hybrid babies...oh dear)
1 Brichardi (had 5 but 1 died and had to remove a trio for being too agressive, they now have their own 20G and about a thousand fry..... one tank turns to 2 turns to 3....)
Synodontis petricola 
Bristlenose 
Everyone so far seems to be getting along with no major skirmishes.

So, how do I keep a Calvus alive??? Should I just give up, because I am not paying more for bigger ones (learned my lesson with Discus.) Is it just bad luck? Should I start it (them?) in a tank of their own and treat them differently (no weekly water changes?) All I know is I don't want to kill anymore. It's not good for my psyche 

2 other questions:
I'm not happy about the hybrid Julies and I plan on splitting up Mom and Dad. Does anyone know if the babies will be fertile? If I leave Mom or Dad in with the babies will I risk more breeding? I'm not even sure mine are really what I 'purchased.' They don't look like any pictures I've seen.

Would a gold and a blue Occellatus breed? They are starting to get to adult size and I am thinking blue-y is a male and goldie is a female. She seems to be making spawning gestures, but I'm not sure if she has a hubby. Do I want to separate them too? Would their offspring be a hybrid or is one strain dominant?

Thanks for any and all advice......Fiona


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Oh boy, there's lots of questions here... I'll answer what I can. Sorry for your loses!  
First, let's talk about your current stocking: yes, the occies can breed with each other, and yes, the julie hybrids are viable. I suggest picking 1 species of shelly, and 1 species of julie (preferably the smaller one as marlieri can be hard on shellies). The leleupi are also hard on shellies, but they may work out for you.

If you want to make an ideal home for calvus, you need to leave room for them. Two aggressive rock dwellers (leleupi and julies) are enough for your tank. Since you are not sure about the species of your julies, get rid of them to make room for calvus.

Now, back to why you are losing your calvus. They are notoriously difficult to acclimate. It is pretty common not to see them for weeks after introduction to a new tank. What are your tank parameters (temp, pH, GH, KH, NO2, NO3, NH3)? Measure these for your tap water and your tank water and report back. What do you mean about "adding the needed chemicals"?

I think we'll have a better idea of what happened after we get some more information.


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## F8LBITEva (Nov 9, 2007)

FYI Calvus and Comps are notoriously sensitive to temperature changes. Maybe the water was 10 degrees or more different and that might have done it.


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## MidNightCowBoy (May 7, 2007)

One thing I would suggest when introducing baby calvus into a tank is to place them into a breeders net for several days to a week before releasing them. That way they will have a chance to acclimate to your water and also acclimate to the food you are going to feed them.

Baby Calvus are pretty passive so I can see the problems you are having with your particular stocklist. You might want to think about getting them their own growout tank until they get a little size on them, then you can release them into your primary tank. All of the fish you have are pretty territorial so the calvus will take a beating no matter where they try to rest. Also they are probably having a hard time feeding as they are not the best feeders when they are really young.

My Calvus have always been really passive until the last couple of months. They basically took a beating from my multis when they were really small. I've had them for about two years. The big guy is about 4 inches with the smaller of the two being a little over 3 inches. The big guy has definitely come out of his shell (metaphorically, not literally) and patrols the tank like the predator he is, but before that he was kind of a big wimp. They are definitely worth the wait as a mature calvus is a pretty impressive fish.


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## pyper96 (Mar 17, 2008)

I understand not wanting to spend the money if they are not going to live. I paid 40 a piece for mine at about an inch and a half. I would also say to post your water parameters. It has got to be something either with your water or other fish...or maybe they were sick when you got them. I do 1 or 2 water changes a week and have never had an issue with my guys. Hope somebody can help you find out what is happening with them!!


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## Fiona_says (Oct 14, 2008)

Just a couple quick notes...

The second Calvus I added was in a floating breeder for the couple weeks I had him. I watched him eat and he was active and seemed healthy. I do wonder if someday I will find the first one, however since I put him in the tank in June, I am doubting he has been in hiding that long 

When I do water changes I make sure the water I add is the same temperature as the water in the tank. I declorinate with Prime. I also add salt, buffer and 'cichlid essential.' My temperature is around 80* and my pH 8.5 (tank). I don't know what all those other letters are, please educate.

Maybe I should just be happy that everyone I have is doing well and getting along. I could get a new tank for the Calvus. Four tanks isn't really enough anyway....... :lol:

Fiona


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## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

> What are your tank parameters (temp, pH, GH, KH, NO2, NO3, NH3)?





> My temperature is around 80* and my pH 8.5 (tank). I don't know what all those other letters are, please educate.


Well, there are alot more complex explanations to it... but, here's my uneducated simplistic explanation:

GH = general hardness, hardness of the water (should be 10dh or more for African cichlids)
KH = carbonate hardness, a buffer for the pH to help stabilize it (should be 8dh or more for African cichlids)

NH3 = Ammonia = waste from the fish and left over food, etc, it is the first phase of a cycle.
In a cycled tank, ammonia should be 0.

NO2 = NitrIte = waste from the bacteria that eat the ammonia, it is the second phase of a cycle 
In a cycled tank, should be 0.

NO3 = NitrAte = waste from the bacteria that eat the nitrItes, it is the final phase of the cycle.
Nitrates (among other things ) are removed/lowered when you do partial water changes. 
They should be kept below 40 and ideally below 20.

There are test kits for these things, most people will advise you to use the reagent and test tube type tests instead of test strips.



> My temperature is around 80* and my pH 8.5 (tank).


Test the pH from the tap. You might have a surprise there...



> I also add salt, buffer and 'cichlid essential.'


Do you know why you are adding these things? 
Test your water (or have it tested at the LFS) for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, KH and GH. Also test your tap pH. 
Let us know.
 
Altolamps. are very cool, I understand why you want to keep them.
hth,
Alicem


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## Fiona_says (Oct 14, 2008)

OK, now you are talking a language I know. When the tank was new I tested the Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates regularly. It's probably been a month or so since I did so. I'll do so again and post the results when I get a chance. I use the test tubes, never liked the strips.

I have never tested the hardnes; how do you do that? You say there are kits; any recommended brands? I have (I think) aragonite sand as a substrate. Whatever it was, it was suggested for Tang tanks.

I will test my tank and tap water and get back.

Thanks for the advice so far all.

BTW, anyone want some brichardis? Those things are worse than rabbits!!

Fiona


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## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

> OK, now you are talking a language I know.


Yes, I can relate.
I can't keep those chemical abbreviations in my head, so I wrote them down.
Often I will refer back to my notes. 



> I have never tested the hardnes; how do you do that? You say there are kits; any recommended brands?


API makes a GH/KH general & carbonate hardness test kit. It's a combo kit but tests each one.
API = (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) 
:thumb: 
Alicem


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## tankmates (Feb 19, 2007)

I have found that calvus are accomplished jumpers. Is your tank completely covered? I lost 2 calvus before I realized that one had jumped to another tank and the other to the floor. They jumped through an open section of the top glass.

You may want to have a calvus only tank until they get acclimated.


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

Honestly.... your problem is probably just the size of the calvus. Start with ones that are at least 2 inches.


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## Fiona_says (Oct 14, 2008)

Longstocking said:


> Honestly.... your problem is probably just the size of the calvus. Start with ones that are at least 2 inches.


The only one I saw close to that size was about 2 1/2 inches and priced at $80. I have not yet ordered fish through the mail and am still scared to try that, although the prices are better (although with shipping it may not turn out to be so.)


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

Try some of our site sponsors. I know of two that can ship to you for 15-20 dollars over night. THe price should be very reasonable as well. 20 or less for each fish.

Look for people that are close so shipping is reasonable.


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## pkluck (Oct 15, 2008)

No expert by any means just relating my experience. Calvus and Comps aren't nearly as sensitive as some people believe. I have 14 in a 140 gallon tank some wild some not for 3+ years. I think the key is to get more than a few and get as big a tank as you can. I have no caves and I have no aggression they swim freely from mid levels to the top of tank and act like a Golden Retriever whenever I enter the room ,wagging their tails begging for something to eat. They do not bother each other or any of my other fish. I've done 80% water changes (yes I know thats bad) without any problems. Although I've never had them breed, probably because I don't have caves, I feel they are one of the easiest Tangs to raise.


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## Ed_209 (Dec 22, 2004)

They are very sensitive to water conditions. I've bred hundreds now,if not thousands.and lost hundreds  
One night I lost about 200 1.5+ inch fry due to low surface agitation.(I filled the tank too full and the spray bar was submerged).
You also have to use a quality dechlorinator. 'BigAls water conditioner' won't cut it. I use "Prime" and age the water a few hours.
Keep the water at 25-26C,and change about 25% every week. I add a heater to my water barrel so it's the same temperature as in their tank.
If you want them black,give them a place to hide in,and use dark substrate. I've kept fry in tanks with black 3m colorquartz and some in tanks with "Ecocomplete Cichlid sand"
Black sand is better.

BTW.I can't believe how expensive Calvus are down there in the States. I sell them 1 inch for 10.00,2 inch for 20.00
Some of my juvenile calvus


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## Ed_209 (Dec 22, 2004)

Also,I forgot to mention,the size you had. 3/4 inch.That's pretty small. I never sell at that size. In my experience,that size fry still drop dead for no apparent reason. I've seen them choke on 1mm pellet food at that length. I feed .35mm NLS until they hit 1 inch and change to Dainichi Ultima 1mm.


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

Ed_209 said:


> They are very sensitive to water conditions. I've bred hundreds now,if not thousands.and lost hundreds
> One night I lost about 200 1.5+ inch fry due to low surface agitation.(I filled the tank too full and the spray bar was submerged).
> You also have to use a quality dechlorinator. 'BigAls water conditioner' won't cut it. I use "Prime" and age the water a few hours.
> Keep the water at 25-26C,and change about 25% every week. I add a heater to my water barrel so it's the same temperature as in their tank.
> ...


Your advice is spot on! :thumb: 
I think the prices he is using are from LFS not local breeders, I also sell my Calvus at about your prices. Your best bet is to find a local club, like Sarah's (Ken is a great speaker), and find someone in the club breeding the fish your looking for. 
Thanks,
Daniel


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## Ed_209 (Dec 22, 2004)

Yeah,I figured it must be retail,but even so. 3/4 inch for 20.00 is a lot.
that 1/4 inch takes a few more months of growing
Even a wild caught adult black calvus is about 100.00 at BigAls.


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## julieduchromis (May 6, 2008)

FWIM I put my young calvus into a fry tank where they were the second largest fish in a 55 with young mbuna. It took a few days before they started to eat and I heard from the breeder that I should feed them what they were used to eating. I found some flake food that had worm in it and they loved it. I also gave them hiding places, plants, rocks, etc. and 5 months later they were 3+" and acting all growed up. I would agree, get some from local breeders. It might just be that they were in a store tank and not fed well to keep them small. Sorry about your losses. Good luck. :thumb:


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