# Geophagus altifons and g. brasiliensis



## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

hey guys,

quick question....

i have 550G tank and i want to keep g. altifon and g. brasiliensis in there with a school of pimilodus pictus. Does anyone have any exepriance with keeping these two geophagus sp. togeather?


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi Henk Hugo,.....did you knew your names are Dutch? Well any way,...I have no experience with tanks that size nor the Altifrons but I do have experience with fish from the Brasiliensis group. Brasiliensis aren't real Geophagus and are discussed for a long time to remove them from that group. Their behaviour is more like CA cichlids,....they can be quit temperamented and chase fish around or even become agresive. A better combination with Altifrons would be Satanoperca. They are large fish but should be very peaceful.


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

Hoi!

Yea i'm from dutch blood :thumb:

I have been doing loads of reading on the Brasiliensis and they seem to be mean fish... i'm pondering just growing the ones that i have up a little more and then selling them on... i will have to go on monday and buy 12 altifrons... :lol:


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hey Henk Hugo,

Yeah seeing your name it was quit obvious. Do you speak the language a bit? You know the word "hoi" so thats a good start, haha!

I had some Brasiliensis Bahia Red in the past. When they were youngsters they were excellent community fish. Troubles started when they reached the 7 inch. Their temperament increased but at the size of +8 inch they started to become mean fish!

Abouth 12 Alifrons seem a lot of fish! They need quit large territories. Besides that they grow out to become quit large cichlids. I rather would go with 8 of them and add a large school of high bodied large tetras. Some fancy pleco's in addition.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

is it a 55 or actually 550g? if it is a 550g then 12 should not be a problem, if it is a 55 none can go in there.


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

Gage - 2500L - 555 imp Gal - 657 us Gal :thumb:

DutchDude - nee my nederlands is niet so goed  my sister lives in NL actually :lol:

back to the fish...

The reason for take the 12 is so that i can keep the best looking 8 or so and sell the rest to one of my clients. One of my clients already said he wants some of the brasiliensis once they are slightly bigger...

I am starting to gather up the fancy pleco's already.... problem being this is africa.... fancy fish (like you get in the EU or states) doesnt come around every day


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *henkhugo*,

What are the dimensions of your tank? and more importantly, got any pictures of your tank.


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

i can only give you the dementions in metric 

2500cmX90cmX80cm = 1800L
and then another 700L sump under that - i am thinking of upgrading the sump to allow for more volume....

As for photos - the tank is still being setup.... want some empty tank photos?


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

Here's some photos - Fiona the cat loves sitting in the tank for hours at end...


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Tot zo ver gaat het goed hoor! So far so good.

Were does your sister live in Holland?

It's a nice tank and realy a large one!!! Hahaha,...funny cat!!! :lol: Oooh boy,...a 700 liter sump!!! I expect it to be more as sufficient! The volume of the sump is the same as both of my largest tanks, haha! I hope the floor can hold the weight!

The reason why I suggested is the next. I read the comment on a tank of a contestant of the Dutch aquarium association (NBAT) that became 4th in the year 2005. He had a tank with the dimensions of 160 cm x125 cm x 65 cm. He kept only 6 G. Areoes in there. They turned out to be 3 males and 3 females and all paired up. The fish constantly quarreled and flighted over the best breeding spot in the tank, causing small injuries, missing scales and split fins. That tank is not as long as yours but it does have a huge footprint of 125cm x 160cm. So Geo's this size need large territories and I expect you don't want to end up with damaged and injured fish.


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

She is in Haarlem...

I have a 800L cube that i can put fish in as well and my clients (i'm the agent for OmegaOne in South Africa) will gladly take fish off my hands.... i also have a fish room with 12x 250L tanks... loads of grow out space...

I must really get the big tank up and going... will report back asap


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Haarlem is a nice place to be :thumb:



> I have a 800L cube that i can put fish in as well and my clients (i'm the agent for OmegaOne in South Africa) will gladly take fish off my hands.... i also have a fish room with 12x 250L tanks... loads of grow out space...


 :lol: Well why I give you advice while it should be the other way around, haha! So lots of back up in case it doesn't work out! Well I guess we only have to wait for the pictures right? When will you start and what are the plans for aquascape? Will there be plants in the tank?


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

I was thinking to just put some ferns and anubias on the wood... perhaps a few pieces of moss tied to one or two of the pieces.... obviously with the eartheaters you cant really plant plants


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

Here's some photos of the fish i got today - a total of 16 :thumb:



























































































and they have 30 of these tank mates


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hey Henk Hugo,....Nice fish :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: I like your choice of the Moenkhousia sanctaefilomenae as tankmates. They are hardy fish and grow to a decent size. I hope they don't snack on them but time will tell. To me 30 tetras in such a huge tanks isn't much. A school of 60 or so would be more interesting.

Java fern and Anubia's will be fine. Mos can be a great display but it is hard to keep it clean and needs some extra atention during cleaning. Also,.....the sifting of the sand can couse sand to get stock in the mos. If you add it I would attach it close to the water surface.


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

man they are eating me out of house and home! really cool fish 

At the moment i only have 3 of the 250L tank setup.... one has the brasilienses in it with a few other fish, one has the altifrons and the red eyes, and another has a few other fish.... i need to setup more of them over the weekend 

i am moving the fishroom around in such a way that i can fit even more tanks in


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

Here's some more photos....


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hallo Henk Hugo,

Hoe gaat het met jou? How is it going!

Thanks for sharing the pics with us and your fish look realy amazing! It is obvious they do well and if they feed like pigs they will grow rapidly as well. I know you are a pellet guy :wink: but I definitely recommend some frozen or live protein rich foods like chopped mussels, cockles, krill, bloodworms, artemis. Some vegitable matter will provide the necessary vitamins but a good qualety pellet can compensate for that. If you do like to feed some vegetables I recommend spirulina and courgette. So far so good and they look great :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

Hoi!

Dit gaat goed!

I feed them a mixture of the following:

Dry:

OmegaOne Freshwater Flakes
OmegaOne Colour Flakes
OmegaOne Colour pellets
OmegaOne Super Veggie flakes

Frozen:
Blood worms
Tubifex
Mysis
cocktail shrimps

so they do get a large selection of food :thumb: I also got a Royal Panaque ( Panaque nigrolineatus) in the tank with them.... I'm looking for some L14's to grow out as well for hte big tank


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Perfect foods Henk Hugo! A nice mix of a qualety pellet or flake and protein rich foods as well like the frozen. I would be careful with the tubifex. Often tubifex contains worms and other bugs as well as illnesses. Lots of worm eggs will surfive a temp of minus 20C easely. Some manufacturers of frozen food sterilize the tubifex first (UV) and those are save to use. Just frozen tubifex *can* couse parasites in the future.

The L14 is a nice large Pleco but also a large poop machine. Did you considered smaller pleco's? One of my favorites is the L134.

Groetjes,

Ruurd


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

I only feed brand that i know is 100% clean 

I'm still not 100% sure which plecos i want but the problem is down here we have to take what we get


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> I only feed brand that i know is 100% clean


 :lol: let me guess,...it does have something to do with your employer? :wink:

I suggest a smaler pleco becouse those large once are realy poop machines,...but if the choice is narrow you have not much to chose from and you possibly have to go with the poop machine :wink:


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

ha - no - i own the agency for OmegaOne in SA.... so i am my own boss.... we cant import the frozen food here due to shipping and storage issues :x

I have no issues with the poop machines - the sump will have a Eheim Pro3 as aditional filtration hooked up to it


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

:lol: Aaah I thought you lead the agency but you actually own it!

Your sump is larger as my tanks so your right,...the poop machines won't be a problem in your situation, haha! Compared to you I think small and am more used to the 55 and 75 gallon tanks. One of those pleco's in a 55 would couse a sh*t pile of poop in one week  In your tank a hardly noticeable bump on the substrate


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

hahahahahaha - yea something like that.

At the moment i hardly notice the poop from the panaque in the smaller tank with them.

Man i just fed them and its this feeding frenzy! How i have missed keeping cichlids! :fish:


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

:lol:



> How i have missed keeping cichlids!


 :thumb:


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

oooooooh my word - busy with water changes in my fishroom and i just noticed a pair of the brasiliensis spawned.... all **** is going to break loose in that tank... theres a total of 24 G. Brasiliensis in the tank....


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Ooops!!!! For now there are 24 brasiliensis in that tank but I suspect the number will decrease very soon! Brasiliensis can be mean fish!


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

yea - but they are still small - the biggest of is a mere 12cm... or there abouts


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

so day two - loads of fertile eggs.... no deaths to other tank mates yet....


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

a friend of mine made the comment that maybe they arent basilienses at all ( due to the size they are spawning at) but some sort of Gymnogeophagus... which got me wondering.... Heres some photos.... tell me what you think:























































mom in the pot with dad watching....


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

the pot is a mere 11cm across - she must be about 8.5 to 9cm....


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

They are still small youngsters so I think this is the luck you have and hopefully agressions will be low. So far they do nice and for their size they look fantastic! :thumb:


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

so you are 100% sure they are brasilensis?


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

True brasilensis have been reported breeding at as little as 5 cm, even a touch under for females.

And do watch the aggression. I lost a much much larger silver saum green terror to a 12 cm male before.

I do believe they are something in the brasilensis group, as they don't have the duel linear spotting down the flanks.


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

Thanks DwarfPike...

I just check the tank and theres a put full of wriglers....


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

I also think they are _'G'. brasiliensis _and not _Gymnogeophagus_

They look great, good luck with the fry :thumb:


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

thanks Ed - i REALLY dont want the fry... not setup for them and i need to go away for a few days....


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

I think the fish plan it that way :lol:


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## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

looks JUST like my brasiliensis... they are quite attractive fish arent they


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

yea they are stunning fish....


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

Here's some updated photos.... i love these fish!


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

Can anyone perhaps ID the type location?


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Heh, I was just in the middle of typing up the question of 'what altifrons are they?' ... loving the red on them, haven't seen that before. Am curious!!


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

hahahahaha - i wish i knew! i just got them from the wholesale guys as small silver fish :fish:


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

well the g. brasiliensis got free swimming fry again.... lets see if they can raise them this time.

Any one got any more info on the type location?


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Henk Hugo,

Sorry I missed your question abouth the brasiliensis. I'm convinced they aren't Gymnogeophagus just like dwarfpike and Ed already told. Dwarfpike is right,...Brasiliensis can breed at a small size and 10cm is defenately no exception.

Brasiliensis species occur along the east coast of SA from Bahia Brazil down to Uruguay. Some of them look diferent like the Bahia, but most look like your fish in diferent shades of coloration and diferent temperaments and sizes. So it will be hard,....maybe even impossible to give you more info on the location of your fish. Is there a reason for wanting to know the location or just curious?

Ruurd


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

hoi ruud!

Hoe gaat het?

I was actually asking about the altifrons


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hoi Henk Hugo,

Het gaat goed hoor. En hoe gaat het met jou?

Sorry,.....I thought you asked also for the brasiliensis. I didn't wrote a thing,...you never seen it right :wink:


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## henkhugo (Apr 29, 2005)

hehehehe - dont worry - its all good


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