# Specific and General ID help



## Adamtc68 (Mar 31, 2013)

I realize some female peacocks and haps are much more difficult to identify than males (if even possible) with some species because they are so similar to other females. I have three fish that were inherited in somewhat rough shape and I'm curious if anyone can tell me what these specific females are, as well as a way to tell the females apart. All three have similar body structure and striping so I thought they might be the same species. As they got acclimated to the tank and showed a slight amount of color, they are fairly distinct. Here are some pics:

Fish 1
First fish has some distinct yellow coloration and patterning in the body, dorsal, and anal fin. 

















Fish 2
Second fish was in the roughest shape when I got her. She is holding and had some decent damage to her fins and body, so her prior tank may have been a poor choice for her. I'm not sure what she bred with before, so the plan is to let nature take its course with the fry (and get eaten). Even if she is pure (no clue), I have no way of knowing what the fry will be. 









Fish 3
Third fish has a distinct red / orange ridge on top of the dorsal fin and red checking across the body and anal fin as well, similar to fish one but differently colored.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

I would guess they are just the common generic "Red Peacock" whatever you want to call them. German red, Ruby Red or whatever.

yes, it is pretty hard to impossible to guess an exact type, but they don't look like any of the natural fish in particular. Maybe compare to "Maleri" also.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

You are right though. Even if pure something or other no way of popping back a lost species or variant tag. They just kind of go into the rag bag of red peacocks. Kind of depends on who you listen to if you believe these are now pure line bred or just a mix of species of Aulonocara.

Sadly even pure lose their distinctive species features after a few generations in captivity. Leaving us no way of telling pure from hybrid.

Kind of shocked talking to a freind, he actualy swallowed the idea that you could get red females without hybridisation. At least these females do not show that but as I said afrade once species and variant is lost its lost for good.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Oh German reds from Germany and Holland have kind of come a long way since the photos on the forum were done. Those would not sell well here in the UK.
These do. :wink: 


All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Thing is German reds are supposed to be Aulonocara sp. ''Stuartgranti Maleri" and kind of look more elongate than many Aulonocara stuartgranti. Which is what yours look most like to me. :-?


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## Adamtc68 (Mar 31, 2013)

I can only assume your pic is of a male and not female German red, yes? I thought about keeping fish #2's fry if they make it to the end as practice for some of the pure items I have in a separate tank. Lots of stuff ill have to learn from experience, so that may help. Despite having no clue what they are, I find myself any every time I come home wondering if I'll see live fry in her mouth. No way of knowing how long she has been holding so it could be a day, could be three weeks. Of course the kids don't help asking every 5 minutes if we have new babies :lol:


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## Adamtc68 (Mar 31, 2013)

Also, is the yellow coloring on fish 1 less common and could likely be traced to fewer species or is it just as numerous for females to show yellow coloration as it is red?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

As far as I know all pure none line bred or hybrid Aulonocara females show no colour except grey or brown.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Kind of want noki and Fogelhund to give thier views. I kind of gave up breeding Aulonocara when I reolised I could no longer tell one species from another due to the number of hybrids and line bred guys about.  
For me the Aulonocara hobby kind of went pear (or should I say discus) shaped some time ago.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Females can retain some colour if they were previously hormoned. Or if they aren't females..

I wouldn't guess at anything with female peacocks. I'd just assume hybrids unless I could guarantee otherwise.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Big thing these days is where do you get guaranteed none hybrid breeding stock? For sure it does not seem to be the breeders. Most seem to have swallowed what they were told by the guys who bred em/sold em earlier.
WC about the only guaranteed pure option?


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## Adamtc68 (Mar 31, 2013)

WC?


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## Adamtc68 (Mar 31, 2013)

Nevermind. Wild caught. Got it. Even then you can't guarantee anything is "pure." You have to think that if they mate with other species females in tanks, they likely exhibit that behavior in the wild. Not sure, if you take a technical standpoint, there is anything "pure" anywhere


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Many wild cichlids may be hybrids from an evolutionary point of view. But not realy an aquarist one. They for sure try and stay pure in the wild and having so much more space and not forced into un natural mixes generaly manage it for thousands of years at a time. :thumb: 
Kind of a major event when a natural hybrid is generated in the wild and an even greater event if it does not immediatly die out. Yep they exist and yep folk like to keep these for the added rarity and interest.

Not the same as putting two species together in captivity and claiming to have made something new or interesting. If these man made hybrids realy were sort after, they would be sold as such. :wink:

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Its kind of the definition of species. Not much gene flow between them. If there was a lot of species hybridisation, we would not be able tell the wild species apart. So as we can, its proved to be rare.


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