# Sunken belly and clamped tail



## Dr.Kenza (11 mo ago)

I recently brought these cichlids from a far away place by train transportation…the yellow tail acei and the taiwan reef have sunken belly and the sulphur head’s tail looks like this…can anyone help me out…The seller denies the fact that the sulphur head’s tail wasnt like that when it left them…


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

Start with good food and clean water. I'm not sure what to say about the sulfurhead. It's difficult to see what happened there.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

If the fish were bagged together, more than likely that caused the fin damage and as suggested above, clean water should help.

The fish with the sunken belly should improve with good food, not sure what is going on with taiwan reef, the eye is huge compared to the body size and it's too colorful for its size.

I would avoid that vendor in the future if that is how they were shipped to you.

What size tank are they in and what are the other tank mates?


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## Dr.Kenza (11 mo ago)

Deeda said:


> If the fish were bagged together, more than likely that caused the fin damage and as suggested above, clean water should help.
> 
> The fish with the sunken belly should improve with good food, not sure what is going on with taiwan reef, the eye is huge compared to the body size and it's too colorful for its size.
> 
> ...


Yea i would do that surely…
Wont buy from them again...
The sulphur head and the yellow tail is in a 300gallon with most tankmates who were there before he arrived…Therz a synspilum vieja,1 geo surinamensis,1 albino heckeli,1 tiger oscar,1 copper oscar,3 severums,1 green terror,1 electric blue acara,1 rostratus,2 red empress,1 chitimba,1 yellow lab,1dolphin moori,3 common plecos,1 firemouth,1 canary yellow ob peacock,an electric blue fryeri,6 blood parrots(2red,2yellow,2green),1 dragonblood peacock,2 eureka red,1 bicolour mbuna and a venustus…i hope i have named them correctly😅…Fishes are about 4-5 inches size with the red empress being the biggest of about 7-7.5 inches…Planning to add a fee more cichlids into it as i feel theres a lot more room in there and i only kept rocks in there and not much drift wood so theres a lot of open water swimming space…Any suggestions of my plan in adding some new fishes or is mine stocked enough…certainly i dont feel like they are overstocked but anyway would like to hear ur opinion too…


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Whew.... that is a wild amount of fish you have in that aquarium. And yes, the 300 gallon sized tank will definitely help to keep things stable for a longer amount of time.... But sooner probably than later, there will be some bullies emerge from that group. The decision to pull what may be very attractive looking (mean) fish, may have to be considered against keeping the less dominant ones that have been picked on by the bullies and may actually be injured.
You have some Cichlid species in that group that are going to get very large, and are not known for being very peaceful... So, as the fish in your tank grow to adult sizes, some of those problems may begin to happen for you. I would invest in a quarantine/hospital tank of at least 40 gallon breeder size now, to have a safe recovery place for wounded, beaten fish if/when the aggression in that aquarium escalates out of control.


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## Dr.Kenza (11 mo ago)

marten said:


> Start with good food and clean water. I'm not sure what to say about the sulfurhead. It's difficult to see what happened there.





marten said:


> Start with good food and clean water. I'm not sure what to say about the sulfurhead. It's difficult to see what happened there.


I actullay dont trust the seller on that and i wont buy fish from them again…theres no way such a thing would happen as the fish were bagged seperately too…sure will follow what u said thankyu😊


Auballagh said:


> Whew.... that is a wild amount of fish you have in that aquarium. And yes, the 300 gallon sized tank will definitely help to keep things stable for a longer amount of time.... But sooner probably than later, there will be some bullies emerge from that group. The decision to pull what may be very attractive looking (mean) fish, may have to be considered against keeping the less dominant ones that have been picked on by the bullies and may actually be injured.
> You have some Cichlid species in that group that are going to get very large, and are not known for being very peaceful... So, as the fish in your tank grow to adult sizes, some of those problems may begin to happen for you. I would invest in a quarantine/hospital tank of at least 40 gallon breeder size now, to have a safe recovery place for wounded, beaten fish if/when the aggression in that aquarium escalates out of control.


Cancu name those cichlids whom you think are gona cause problems later?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Nice looking tank! What are the dimensions if you don't mind?

You have quite a mix of cichlids in that tank from different continents. Are you just choosing fish you like or are open to ideas for choosing better tank mates? Which fish are your favorites and you really want to keep?


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## Dr.Kenza (11 mo ago)

Deeda said:


> Nice looking tank! What are the dimensions if you don't mind?
> 
> You have quite a mix of cichlids in that tank from different continents. Are you just choosing fish you like or are open to ideas for choosing better tank mates? Which fish are your favorites and you really want to keep?


Dimensions are 94” 24” 30” with a 55 gallon sump…
Yes i am just choosing fish that i like along with considering the fact that i dont choose too agressive ones…i do have a venustus though i couldnt resist him /her coz of his colours but it is small and seems to do fine with others for now…i like them both africans and americans and all of them are locally bred in farms so pretty much the same parameters for them all as all of them seems to do really well…i am planning to add like a few more africans and others like the livingstoni,taiwan reef,electric blue,haplochromis obliquedense,albino dolphin,ice blue,…etc…i will jist post their pics because i am not sure what they are really called because i cant seem to find them on google with the local names they call them here…


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would get rid of the mbuna like metriaclima estherae, socolofi and ice blue (metriaclima greshakei) as too aggressive for your haps and peacocks. Or have you considered this and decided to see if it works due to the extra long tank?


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Hmmmm....


Muhammed Hisham said:


> Cancu name those cichlids whom you think are gona cause problems later?


Okay then, 

The first Cichlid on your list _Vieja melanurus_, (formerly _synspilum_) the Quetzal, Redhead or Firehead Cichlid. Central American and very unpredictable in temperament. If a male, that one will grow past 16 inches in length and can have a really BAD attitude. I had one that wouldn't tolerate any Cichlids kept with it - in a 6 foot long tank! So, if you do wind up with a very aggressive one, the small Cichlids will probably not be seen as a threat and will usually be ignored. ANY Cichlid in your tank that grows past 8 - 9 inches in length however, will probably not be tolerated.
Oscars. These grow out past 14 - 15 inches. An odd, and somewhat unpredictable South American Cichlid. These can become either a victim - or bully other Cichlids relentlessly.
Green Terror. These South American Cichlids have an obnoxious habit of starting fights with other strong, dominant Cichlids they should leave alone. Unfortunately, the _V. melanurus_ is probably going to attack that Green Terror first and may kill it - in retaliation!
Blood Parrots. Same as the Green Terror. These things seem to excel in starting fights and drama they just can't back up. Those almost non-functioning mouths and lack of swim control? They're ridiculous! So, be ready to rescue them when they inevitably instigate fights. Stocked in community tanks with some REAL tough guys in it, the Blood Parrots almost always wind up getting the worst of it.
-
Otherwise, well good luck I guess. Sometimes aquariums set up like this with seemingly everything in it that looks nice, can work out okay. And yes, the very large, 300 gallon size of yours will certainly help to extend the time before these Cichlids grow to adult size and power, and the inevitable fights and aggression in your aquarium become serious.


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## Dr.Kenza (11 mo ago)

DJRansome said:


> I would get rid of the mbuna like metriaclima estherae, socolofi and ice blue (metriaclima greshakei) as too aggressive for your haps and peacocks. Or have you considered this and decided to see if it works due to the extra long tank?


Yes infact i did consider that and as you said i am giving it a go as i feel theres a lot os space in there and i did make a lot of hiding spaces with the rocks…i really had no plan in keeping any mbunas except a yellow lab but i did love them and aftr i got this large tank i decided to give it a go because of the tanksize… i still have some mbunas in there which i added in between and they are more on the less agressive side and seems to do well so i would like to try some more…what do you think of the present mbunas i have in there…they are on the less agressive side considering mbunas right?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The three I mentioned are aggressive mbuna, yes.


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## Dr.Kenza (11 mo ago)

Auballagh said:


> Hmmmm....
> 
> Okay then,
> 
> ...


Yes i agree on the green terror but he is smaller than the vieja and the vieja seems to run away from him…and he luckily doesnt look like a really agressive one now…but as you said we will see when they get bigger and i will be ready to act…atleast i get Some time to enjoy seeing them all together…which is all i want😁😁😁


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## Dr.Kenza (11 mo ago)

DJRansome said:


> The three I mentioned are aggressive mbuna, yes.





DJRansome said:


> The three I mentioned are aggressive mbuna, yes.


Ok 👍🏻…i will keep an eye on them once i get my hands on them😁


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## Dr.Kenza (11 mo ago)

DJRansome said:


> I would get rid of the mbuna like metriaclima estherae, socolofi and ice blue (metriaclima greshakei) as too aggressive for your haps and peacocks. Or have you considered this and decided to see if it works due to the extra long tank?


Can u tell me which one among those is the socolofi and the estherae?i cant seem to identify them


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Socolofi is blue with black dorsal stripe. Estherae is orange with dark blotches.


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## Dr.Kenza (11 mo ago)

DJRansome said:


> Socolofi is blue with black dorsal stripe. Estherae is orange with dark blotches.





DJRansome said:


> I would get rid of the mbuna like metriaclima estherae, socolofi and ice blue (metriaclima greshakei) as too aggressive for your haps and peacocks. Or have you considered this and decided to see if it works due to the extra long tank?





DJRansome said:


> Socolofi is blue with black dorsal stripe. Estherae is orange with dark blotches.


And one more thing,as this being a 300gallon which is quite a large one and suppose with around 50 cichlids in them do i need to do water changes evry week or can i do them once a month…and how much percentage should i do?and should i vaccum gravel it all the time or like once a month or 2?


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

One thing that will help to inform the amount and periodicity of water changes, would be a Nitrate test kit. If the measured Nitrates are showing at 40 PPM (or more) it is definitely time to do a water change to dilute the Nitrates out of the water of your aquarium. Plus, what does dilution mean? That is, if your nitrate kit measures out your water at say 40PPM? You will need to change out 50 percent of the water in your tank (approximately 150 gallons) to bring the measured Nitrate down to 20 PPM. 
So to inform, when your fish/Cichlids in the tank are small in size, they will generate much less organic waste than when they grow out to larger, adult sizes. That is, the more fish mass you have in the tank, the more Nitrates they will produce. Therefore the more water changes and higher percentage of water changes you will need to perform, to maintain the measured level of Nitrates in the water of your aquarium down below a healthy 40 PPM. 

And lastly, testing the water with your Nitrate kit should be routine and done fairly often, to ensure you are staying on top of required maintenance.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I like to change 50% or more weekly regardless of volume or stocking. 50 fish in an 8-foot tank is still overstocked. Monitor nitrates in case you have to change a larger volume or do 50% changes more often.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

And to add a little more....
I believe there are three main things that will have the biggest influence on the health and well-being of the fish you keep.
1) Clean water. The easiest thing to achieve and maintain because YOU are responsible for it! Keeping your fish in clean, well-maintained water is probably one of the best things you can do for them.
2) Protection from disease or illness. A bit tougher, as it requires a process to ensure that ANY or ALL new fish introduced to an existing aquarium are first QUARANTINED for 4 - 6 weeks to ensure they are free of parasites, bacterial infections or active disease. Treating fish (or having them actually die) in quarantine, is just SO much easier to deal with than when they are in your main community tank. Be safe! DO NOT make all of your fish sick!
3) Managing Aggression. The hardest one. As spoken to already.... attempt to stock with (relatively) compatible groups of Cichlids. Once in the aquarium, observe your fish closely and be ready to intervene if you see signs of stressed, beaten fish. This process is best served by establishing and maintaining a hospital/quarantine tank to treat injured/beaten/thrashed fish, that have come out on the wrong end of out-of-control aggression in the aquarium.


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