# stock list 48" long 75g



## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

OK my first post. Currently made the switch back to freshwater after giving a run at saltwater. 75g tank currently in the 3rd week of my cycle. I'm in no real hurry to rush things however I'm starting to look into stock and would like opinions. I have river tock around 150lbs and 80 lbs of sand and egg crate on the bottom. (Will post pics later in the day). For filtration I'm running xp3 and cf500uv. And a korilla power head for extra movement. All that's in the cannisters are sponges until the tank is seeded with decent bacteria. 4 goldfish and 4 zebra danos. Ammonia cycle is beginning to break down to nitrite and nitrate so its slow but progressing. Here's what I am looking at for stock. FYI I really like the Hong so would like to keep those in the list if variations are needed please work around that. Also I will be upgrading to a 150g in the next 6-9 months.

llows:

4 Labidochromis sp. "hongi"

4 Melanochromis Johanni "maingano

4 Metriclima Lombardoi "Kenyi"

4 pseudotropheus sp "acei" Msuli "yel tail"

I know I shouldn't mix lab species for keeping the breeds clean, but I don't plan on selling fish nor breeding. Does that make sense? I would like maybe 4 of each? Do I need females? Would all male become to aggressive? Any opinions and help will be appreciated.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Welcome to C-F! I'm sure you'll get better answers in the Malawi folder, so I've moved your post.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

You don't need females, but most often when people do all male tanks they keep only one male of each species, in order to reduce aggression. Metriaclima lombardoi (kenyi) are often too aggressive for a 75 gallon tank, so you might wish to look at another species there. The "maingano" is actually a Pseudotropheus cyanaeorhabdos, not a johanni, though hybrids of the two are very common. An all male tank shouldn't be an issue aggression wise, "if" you stick to species that are typically not major problems (such as kenyi, johanni, auratus, chipokae, crabro)


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

Fogelhund said:


> You don't need females, but most often when people do all male tanks they keep only one male of each species, in order to reduce aggression. Metriaclima lombardoi (kenyi) are often too aggressive for a 75 gallon tank, so you might wish to look at another species there. The "maingano" is actually a Pseudotropheus cyanaeorhabdos, not a johanni, though hybrids of the two are very common. An all male tank shouldn't be an issue aggression wise, "if" you stick to species that are typically not major problems (such as kenyi, johanni, auratus, chipokae, crabro)


Thank you for your reply. However its a bit confusing. Maybe its just me  . When you say i dont need females but only keep one male of each species does that mean i can only go 4 total fish? or whats a good number for a male only tank in a 75g? 
Also you stated that kenyi are too aggressive for a 75g, but put them on a list that are not typically major problems. Again thank you for your reply im just trying to make sure i completly understand anyones opinion before i make a final decision on fish to stock.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

ohmslaw said:


> Thank you for your reply. However its a bit confusing. Maybe its just me  . When you say i dont need females but only keep one male of each species does that mean i can only go 4 total fish? or whats a good number for a male only tank in a 75g?
> Also you stated that kenyi are too aggressive for a 75g, but put them on a list that are not typically major problems. Again thank you for your reply im just trying to make sure i completly understand anyones opinion before i make a final decision on fish to stock.


You could go for 12-16 fish, all male, each a different species. My apologies for being confusing, the list was of fish that are typically problem fish in terms of aggression.

Some commonly available male fish that might work out well together are; Ps. acei, Lab. caeruleus, Ps. demasoni, Metriaclima callainos, Metriaclima zebra/fainzilberi/Metriaclima sp. ''Dolphin'' Manda/chilumba/emillitos, Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos, Labidochromis sp. "hongi", Ps. elongatus mpanga, Labeotropheus OB (either trewavassae or fuelleborni), Ps. socolofi (albino), Melanochromis parallelus are some examples.


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)




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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

Now after seeing my own picture I need more rock. Any suggestions welcome.


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## Wilson33 (Feb 19, 2008)

I think that your setup looks very nice! You have a good amount of rock in your tank. If you would like to add more, then it's your call. I had a bunch of river rock in my tank, and recently changed to a different setup. I had the river rock for about 12 years, and I liked it. You can always play around with your rock pile placement, and I'm sure you will.


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

Thanks. I'm hoping I don't have to move it to much. Its one of the reasons I switched back to freshwater. Messing with live rock every weekend for hours took the enjoyment out of the hobby quickly. And I missed my piranha and Oscar mix tank.


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## Wilson33 (Feb 19, 2008)

You really don't NEED to move them at all, as long as you can get the wate from underneath them. Are you planning on adding a backgroud to your tank, or did I not see one in your photo? Any dark color background might really bring out the colors of your fish.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

There's only so much you can do to get an all male mbuna setup. The idea is to get one male per species,and try and make sure none of them look to similar,as to avoid any breeding competition. Also I think starting out with all the males being added either simultaneously,or in a specific order(adding the least aggressive species 1st,and the most aggressive species last) within a very short time frame tends to work best.
As an example, I have in my all male 75 Long....
Labidochromis Caereleus
Ps Acei
Ps. Demasoni
Iodotropheus sprengerea
Ps. Cyaneorhabdos
Ps. Williamsi
Metriaclima Estherea(red),
Metriaclima Caillanos(cobalt blue)
Cynotilapia Sp. White Top Hara
Otopharynx Lithobates(the one non mbuna in the tank).
That's 10 fish total !!
I think adding a Labeotropheus ,and a white socolofi is about all I could do to get more mbuna in there. as far as Aggressive species go I do have some in there considered highly aggressive. The Williamsi,Cyaneorhabdos,and Demasoni being the top 3.

My tank does have a couple of possible risks...

I.E To start I break 1 ''rule'' simply by having the Otopharynx in the tank with mbuna(he's just fine).

Also the Metriaclima Estherea and Metriaclima do have a very similar body type. Those two being from the same genus is often considered a risk. In my experience though my two Metriaclima males don't bother eachother at all,they do have completely different coloration,and I'm sure that's why it's working.

My Cynotilapia does spend some attention to the Metriaclima Caillanos because their coloration is very similar. But the Caillanos does not sport the vertical barring that the Cynotilapia has,and again in my experience has been enough to keep the Cynotilapia from becoming heavily aggressive towards the caillanos.

Another example is My Ps. Cyaneorhabdos,who does give some attention to my Ps. demasoni due mostly in part again to similar coloration,but this time the difference in body type has been enough to keep these two fish from being heavily aggressive toward one another. Also the Demasoni has vertical barring where the Cyaneorhabdos has horizontal barring,another distinsction which is obviously seen by both fish.

Also the Lithobates gets a little attention from my Acei due to some similar coloration. When I say that one fish gets attention from another I am describing behavior which would be considered aggression,but it's not really chasing It's more of a get out of my face action where the chase lasts only a second or two. Each fish has his place in the heirarchy. At times those who are higher on the chain find it required to remind those further down where their place is. I'm Lucky because My tank Boss happens to be the Acei,who by species description is fairly peaceful. in Mbuna terms anyway.

Of course I also have enough tank space that if something were to change for the worse in my All Male Dynamic ( which is possible),I can address the situation properly. meaning I have extra tanks to remove any bullied fish or any fish who has become more trouble than they're worth.Something that should absolutely be an option for someone looking to keep an all male malawi setup

Lastly I've given my stocklist on as an example not a suggestion.Much research should be done before attempting an all Male Tank,but I hope you find my post at least somewhat helpful


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

I am going to put up a black background I think. I would love to get a nice 3-d background but I'd have to sell my car, camper and take out a second mortgage apparently to afford one. I'm also planning on a branch of driftwood or bogwood.


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## Wilson33 (Feb 19, 2008)

There are threads on the forum for DYI 3D backgrounds. I have never made one, but the cost is probably less, and you could customize yours. I think that you would enjoy your setup more with any type of background.

If you choose compatible mates, then I don't really think you have to go all male. I am debating this issue myself, and I really enjoy watching a group of one, two, or three species interact. In my experience, Yellow Labs would work well in your tank in a group. Maybe start with 6 or 7 after the tank cycles, and see how many males you have. I've never kept them (but I may soon), but a group of Demasoni might work with the Labs, since they are smaller. Again, I have no personal experience, but you will want more of them than the Labs to keep their agression down.

I have kept the Labs with P. Acei, and it is a nice color mix. My tank is 72" long, but a group might work in your 48".

Watching the fish spawn, to me, is more interesting than all male.


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

Yes , I don't think I'm going to go all male. I do like the ability of having somewhat of a 1:4 ratio of the same species seems cool to me. Now my question is color and compatibility. I really like the Hong, and after masterchi post the Williamsi looks awesome. I guess its back to the drawing board and looking for mates.


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## Wilson33 (Feb 19, 2008)

You will find a good mix that will suit you well. If the Hong is your favotite, see what else will contrast with their colors and not cross breed. Yellow Labs would be out. Most of the fry will be eaten regardless, unless you separate the holding female.


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

Well I do have another 40g tank so seperation won't be an issue as long as the don't reproduce like rabbits. Which means more research as I've never dealt with any type of offspring before. However I'd like to stay away from hybridization if possible. **** this is becoming stressful lol.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

most of your 1st list could work If you choose the Ps. Cyaneorhabdos (Maingano) instead of the Johanni. you could have 
1/4 Maingano
1/4 Hongi
1/4 Acei
But I think the Kenyi would be out. they really are very aggressive.
You could try a different Blue bar species.Either a ...

Metriaclima Sp. Dolphin..









Cynotilapia afra..









or even Demasoni..









instead, of the Kenyi.

Plus adding the Demasoni works in extra fish making it a busier tank, because suggestion dictates having 12 or more of them together. It's kinda funny how such a small mbuna requires such a different stocking, Most people probably start with around 18 or 20 and weed out extra males until the number's down to 12-15 total.


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

So if I went with the afra species you mentioned that would be a 1'4 ratio as well? Or if I went with the 3 groups listed above, how many demasoni would I add? I like a busier tank.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

I should say that the Kenyi and Johanni might work if you upped the female numbers by about 3 or 4. 1M/7-8F Maybe in the 75,but a better shot in the 150gal.

Also a 150 gal.long's dimensions are 60''x24''x25'' whereas a 125 long's are 72''x18''x17''. I think the extra foot of length would suit you well,especially if you do go with Johanni,and Kenyi,


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

ohmslaw said:


> So if I went with the afra species you mentioned that would be a 1'4 ratio as well? Or if I went with the 3 groups listed above, how many demasoni would I add? I like a busier tank.


 For Afra yes 1M/4F would be good. If you went with Demasoni your stock would look something like this...

1M/4F Maingano
1M/4F Acei
1M /4F Hongi
12-15 Demasoni

with that many demasoni usually there will be around 3 males but like I said you start with closer to 20 and what will happen is the dominant male will start to become too aggressive towards a couple or so subdom males. you will remove those subdoms until your Dom male feels comfortable with the colony the other upside to keeping demasoni is that the females look as striking as the males. but most Demasoni keepers would agree they are a bit more work,at least 1st off when weeding out the subdoms.So be prepared.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

Also there are many Cyno species to try not just the cobue I showed earlier....

The Jalo Reef is popular...










as is the Cyno Sp. White Top Hara..










Actually either of these 2 might be a better contrast than the Cobue,which has a kind of similar color to your Hongi.. Which I know you like.


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

I do like the cyno afra for the yellow. But thus far its looking like the demasoni grouping is what I'm leaning toward. Thank you so much for your info. Extreamly helpful


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

Any thoughts on Pseudotropheus sp. "Perspicax Orange Cap


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## Michael_M (May 31, 2012)

The orange caps tend to be very aggressive, generally too aggressive for a 4ft tank. Demasoni are very nice fish though, would be a good fit.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Agree on the perspicax. Too many blue barred fish IMO.


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

Any orange or green recommendations?


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

Well for orange. Metriaclima Estherea would be the obvious choice. Iodotropheus Sprengerae does have some orange on its finnage. Ps. Williamsi males get a sort of orange , and are very nice looking. But they're big and Aggressive. DJ mentioned too many blue barred species. I'm wondering what he means. Perspicax aren't really blue barred are they? They seem kind of silver. With some red to me. I haven't kept them but I hear they are monsters aggression wise.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

ohmslaw said:


> Any orange or green recommendations?


Orange you say?


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

I think the barred he was referring to is the demasoni and the maingano?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Maingano are striped, demasoni are barred. So are afra, dolphin, hongi, etc. I don't think there is a true green species.

Know that demasoni are the extra work fish and have extra tanks, a rehoming plan and the willingness to tear down your tank fairly often to net victim fish before they sicken your tank.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> Maingano are striped, demasoni are barred. So are afra, dolphin, hongi, etc. I don't think there is a true green species.
> 
> Know that demasoni are the extra work fish and have extra tanks, a rehoming plan and the willingness to tear down your tank fairly often to net victim fish before they sicken your tank.


I thought that's what you were getting at.

In my provided suggestion I guess Ifelt that while the Hongi are barred,I didn't consider them Blue barred. I wanted to include the Hongi because ohmslaw seemed to like those best

I included Maingano because they seemed to be in his list as well, I know some people who keep the Cyaneorhabdos and Demasoni together so I didn't think this would be an issue either,like you said the Maingano are striped not barred. Out of the Afra,Dolpin,Demasoni, I hope,and believe ohmslaw understands I'm suggesting only one species from that particular group. DJ do you feel there are too many barred species for it have a potential success? would you hesitate housing L. Hongi and Demasoni together?is it an issue with aesthetics?

ohmslaw
I think a 72'' tank 5 species could work . Then you could do something like this..
M. Estherea
Ps. Acei
Lab. Hongi
Ps. Cyaneorhabdos
Ps. Demasoni

In the 60'' maybe..

M.Estherea
L. Hongi
Ps.Cyaneorhabdos
Ps.Acei
this way barred species drops to 1,and one striped,orange from the estherea to contrast the blue from Acei,and Cyaneorhabdos.

I did mention the extra work Demasoni require earlier but it's something that should not be understated,but ohmslaw it's not impossible to keep them,as Dj would tell you himself. 
Again I really suggested them only as a way to overstock without adding extra species. The only way I overstock is to go that route, or keep extra females of each species. adding an extra species to group has not worked out well in my experience.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There are so many mbuna options, I would not keep hongi with other blue barred fish. You don't consider them blue? What color are they? Not trying to be flip, but they look blue-ish to me or at least more blue than any other color. Like they aren't yellow barred or black/white barred for example.

If hongi were my favorite I would skip the demasoni. Could work, just would not be a mix I would highly recommend. I'd think the hongi (even if brilliantly colored-up for hongi) would looked washed out with the bold colors of the demasoni. I'd go with tank mates with more subtle colors.

There is no reason for us all to have the same recommendations. :thumb:


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> There are so many mbuna options, I would not keep hongi with other blue barred fish. You don't consider them blue? What color are they? Not trying to be flip, but they look blue-ish to me or at least more blue than any other color. Like they aren't yellow barred or black/white barred for example.
> 
> If hongi were my favorite I would skip the demasoni. Could work, just would not be a mix I would highly recommend. I'd think the hongi (even if brilliantly colored-up for hongi) would looked washed out with the bold colors of the demasoni. I'd go with tank mates with more subtle colors.
> 
> There is no reason for us all to have the same recommendations. :thumb:


 It's not exactly that I don't think of them as Blue,It's just that they seem to me to be a different hue altogether than the others I suggested,except the cobue which I later stated would be less desirable than the other barred fish.
to put in other words, I would say I consider the Hongi to be a light or powder blue,where I consider the demasoni ,or Sp.Dolphin to be Dark blue and Black.
DJ,I wouldn't take any considerations from you lightly. Which is why I asked for some elaboration on your part regarding the Blue Bars. Actually I agree with you overall,and have since given what I hope to be a better stock idea.

I do disagree with your statement however that there is no reason to have the same recommendation.
To provide some level of confirmation to any forum user looking for help with a stocklist,having multiple,similar/same recommendations could be the validation someone is looking for to help them make a decision one way or another. So there is some reason for it,however small it may be.
I take a large sense of pride in my fish,and my opinions/advice I provide to others as well. Which means if my information is inaccurate,or my advice is not sound I absolutely want it to be corrected. I would not consider your questioning my observation on the hongi color to be "flip". Instead I view it as very useful.
It's pretty funny how different people can look at the exact same thing,but view it in a completely different way. Perspective,and Perception.

In the end I just hope we helped ohmslaw to make a more educated decision on what to keep.


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

Wow. I deeply appreciate the opinions given here. Thank you both for providing insight on not only aggression but colors. In the back of my mind I knew that common coloring in the tank could present a problem down the road. But after reading your comments it brought it to the front where it apparently needed to be. Good thing is I'm still roughly 2 weeks away from finishing my cycle. Just hit 0 ammonia a lot of nitrite and a little nitrate so I've got some time to figure out a suitable stock. I currently have a 48" 75g tank so I'm going to stay away from 5 species until I make the move next spring to a much bigger tank. Please continue if you would be so inclined to keep going on possible tank stocking around the Hongi or something else maybe? I don't know why I like it so much, I just do


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

So I'm about ready to start adding stock. My question is can I piece them in or do I have to wait a get them all at once? Can I start with say 6 or so dems for a few weeks then add a few more species as I go or is this a disaster waiting?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

How about this:
1m:7f Maingano
1m:4f Hongi
1m:4f Acei
1m:4f Rusties

You could add the fish one species at a time, but add the most peaceful first. Also every time you add a group you need to monitor ammonia and nitrate in case the additional fish load gives you a mini spike.


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## vrs2013 (May 6, 2013)

Just don't add 1 fish at a time, do it in groups of 3+ if you can afford it. Feed your current stock heavily before adding new fish and turn the lights off prior to release.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

If you cycled with ammonia, and were dosing in the neighborhood of 3 ppm, you can add all your fish at once as long as they're juveniles. Just continue to test your water and watch for spikes, as DJ advised.


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## Shaky (Jan 2, 2003)

Whatever combination you choose, you gotta admit this is a great problem to have. I love the whole research and planning process in preparing for a new set-up. Please let us know what you decide on.


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

Update is.... I've done nothing for 5 months. I'm going to make a 3d background and stock the tank in the next 2 weeks. I'll post pics when I'm done. Currently shopping for stock.


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## ohmslaw (May 14, 2013)

Anyone in the Massachusetts area have any mbuna fry for sale let me know.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

If you make a BG, allow several days for the silicone to cure. Then you need to cycle your tank. Depending on your approach, that could take up to 6 weeks.

Look for clubs in your area for fish. Hit up aquabid or an online dealer. If you cycle your tank properly, you can add everything at once. I suggest using an online vendor, or a local breeder. Bottom line: you need to trust your source. If at any time you sense/see red flags, bail and look elsewhere.


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## Michael_S (Aug 18, 2013)

Tomorrow I am stripping my Cynotilapia afra Cobue and I have 3 Metriaclima estherae fry available. They are very young (less than a week), I used to have 8, but I gave some to my friend. I live in the south shore.


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