# Trying to identify scale damage on a pink convict cichlid



## fathertime (Sep 1, 2016)

Good afternoon to all,

So before I get into my question I feel I should provide a little back story to shed some light on the issue at hand.

I original obtained the male pink convict cichlid depicted in the photo below during a fish rescue I performed in my neighborhood; the landlord of an apartment down the street from me had noticed me cleaning an aquarium I recently purchased in my front yard and inquired if I would be interested him in helping with an abandoned aquarium a tenant he was forced to evict left behind. Upon arrival we found a 29 gallon tank with 26 pink convict cichlids, a 14" sail fin pleco, two neon hatchet fish that had no heater or filter and contained about 3 inches of solid fish waste... Needless to say it was a horror show and it was a miracle that with enough TLC every fish survived the endeavor... However, it wasn't without lasting effects on the inhabitants of the tank.










From what I can gather the tank originally consisted of a single breeding pair of pink convicts and they produced a single batch of fry that grew to maturity (the other 24 cichlids), I assume this because out of the 26 there is only one dominant breeding pair and they are significantly larger than the rest (assuming this is due to growth stunting from the poor living conditions while fry). The above image is of the male of the breeding pair (however, the female has the same markings but less prominent).

As you can see he has some kind of damage to the scales on the left side of his body. When inspected closely it appears that the scales themselves are not damaged but rather that this is some kind of dark scarring, infection or fungus that is on the skin under the scales (but this is merely speculation). The damage seems to have no effect on the health of the fish, and it does not appear to spread to other fish nor does it worsen with time. I am currently raising about 140 fry from this pair and not a single fry has any signs of the same markings leading me to believe it is external damage more than a hereditary thing.

I've yet to attempt anything to hear the wounds as I have no clue what I should be treating... is this a fungus, virus, bacteria, parasite, scarring, or something completely unknown to me. If anyone can provide even a hint as to what this may be I would be infinitely grateful as I would love to get these guys as healthy as humanly possible in a small attempt to make up for what they have been through.

Also, I should note that all 26 pink convicts remained with me for 6 months... it was 24 hours before they stopped respiring poop from their gills, it took 3 months before the stopped passing gravel (I can only assume they ate the gravel out of desperation) and another month or so for their natural pink blue and orange iridescent color to reappear... But once I knew they were healthy beyond a doubt I managed to rehome every last one and as far as I am aware are all living happy little lives.


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## fathertime (Sep 1, 2016)

Good afternoon once more,

I noticed that in your "before you post" section they have additional questions that assist the community with answering questions related to illness, so here are my answers to those questions:

*Q: What is the size and dimensions of your tank and what SPECIES of fish do you have?*

A: The tank is a 75 gallon that is 48 x 18 x 24 and is a mono species tank with the breeding pair of pink convict cichlids and about 140 fry.

*Q: How long has it been set up? Is it CYCLED? (This can rule out cycling issues.)*

A: The aquarium has been running for about 2 months, it utilizes 2 sponge filters and a 55 gallon sump, both of which have been cycled for over 6 months.

*Q: What are your water parameters: Temperature, ammonia (NH3/4), nitrite (NO2), pH, GH, KH and nitrate (NO3)? It's not sufficient to say that your water tests "okay" or "fine." Sometimes a misunderstanding about WATER CHEMISTRY requirements is the root of the problem. If you don't have TEST KITS, you should purchase them. In the meantime, your local fish store will probably test your water for you -- just be sure to get the actual results rather than just a "thumbs up".*

A: Temperature is 79, ammonia is 0ppm however I've not checked NH3/4 or NO2 in over a month so I don't feel my last recollection is pertinent; however, my last recollection was NH3 was 0ppm, NH4 was 6ppm and NO2 has never been measured (the aquarium isn't planted and is bare bottom).

*Q: How long have you had the fish and what symptoms do they have?*

A: Since I obtained them, about 6 to 8 months.

*Q: What do you FEED them?*

A: A combination of cichlid pellets (majority) and frozen brine shrimp/blood worms (weekly treat). I feed them once a day for about a 30 second to 1 minute window, dependent on their appetite that particular day.

*Q: Have you introduced any new fish recently? *

A: No fish have been introduced recently, but they did recently spawn about 140 fry and as a result the other 14 pink convict cichlids were removed from the aquarium to reduce aggression.

*Q: What is your MAINTENANCE schedule*

A: Weekly I do a 50% water change and wash out the duel sock filters in the sump, about every 2 weeks the aquarium gets an internal scrubbing to reduce brown algae (this is a result of the fry food, brown algae was not an issue before I began feeding first bites).

*Q: what product/s (if any) do you use to neutralize chlorine or chloramines in your TAP WATER?*

A: I use API Prime.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Unless the dark coloration/spots are raised or form a bump, I very much doubt it's an illness or infection.
It's simply the coloration of your fish.
Slight marbling can show up in 'pink cons'...... or your fish might have a marble convict in it's past, and subsequent generations of only breeding 'pink' cons have eliminated most, but not all of the marbling.


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## fathertime (Sep 1, 2016)

Thank you very much for your response BC in SK, it's greatly appreciated. However, I suppose my explanation of the markings wasn't adequate enough, the markings are raised and are clearly not uniform to the surrounding non darkened scales. There is no doubt that the cichlid pictured above suffered scale damage to the region that these black spots formed because there is scaring in the area that has since healed, the scales have grown back but are pale compared to the non injured areas around the wound. The dark spots appear to be under the scales and the scales are slightly raised as if they are being raised by scarred tissue underneath, but that is purely speculation.I will attempt to take higher quality pictures and video to hopefully provide the community with a little clearer evidence.

I should also note, this particular pair has by now produced about 200 to 300 fry which have all reach maturity, and not a single one (either fry or grown out to maturity) has developed similar markings, the line is surprisingly consistent with its coloration and body form, it's purely these two battle hardened adults that have the signs of a rough life.

If it's simply permanent damage to the fishes flesh or scales I can completely accept that, but if there is any possibility to help mend the scales to return these beautifies to their most pristine condition I would opt to do so.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post, and also to those who have any feedback regarding this situation; every little bit of information helps.

Have a wonderful day!


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## fathertime (Sep 1, 2016)

Good afternoon once again,

I apologies for my delayed response, life... it can get hectic some times. I unfortunately didn't have time to record this scale condition since I last posted; however, I was recording the fry in that tank for other purposes and noticed that I managed to get some footage of the scale damage towards the tail end of the video.






Hopefully seeing the convict in motion may make it easier to identify the condition.

Thanks again to everyone for any advice you may be able to provide regarding this matter.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Looking at the video, I'm still not convinced that the black spots are anything more then just melanin. 'Pink' cons have their coloration because they lack melanin. It is a recessive gene. Many of the striped cons in the hobby are carriers of this recessive gene and will produce some 'pink' cons when mated to another carrier of the recessive gene. Sometimes over enough generations, you start to get some variability.
By the way, your cons have more then just black spots. Particularly the male (but actually both of them), the black stripes are faintly visible. So the lack of melanin is not complete. Definitely not 100%. 
Maybe the spots came about from some previous scale damage (??) and that is just the color of the repair. 
Of course you won't see it on fry, as they are not developed fish. Any pics of offspring that are grown adults? 
I'd tend to think that at least some of their offspring are not completely lacking melanin, just like both parents.


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## fathertime (Sep 1, 2016)

BC in SK said:


> Looking at the video, I'm still not convinced that the black spots are anything more then just melanin. 'Pink' cons have their coloration because they lack melanin. It is a recessive gene. Many of the striped cons in the hobby are carriers of this recessive gene and will produce some 'pink' cons when mated to another carrier of the recessive gene. Sometimes over enough generations, you start to get some variability.
> By the way, your cons have more then just black spots. Particularly the male (but actually both of them), the black stripes are faintly visible. So the lack of melanin is not complete. Definitely not 100%.
> Maybe the spots came about from some previous scale damage (??) and that is just the color of the repair.
> Of course you won't see it on fry, as they are not developed fish. Any pics of offspring that are grown adults?
> I'd tend to think that at least some of their offspring are not completely lacking melanin, just like both parents.


Good morning BC in SK,

Thank you for taking the time to review my post and provide feedback, it's greatly appreciated. I know with certainty that spot received significant damage as I was the one who medicated him back to health. I also know that he did not have that spot when I initially obtained the fish. I truly have no idea what happened to him, but my best guess is that he got pinned behind a somewhat abrasive stone that was in his original rescue tank. The damage left about a nickel sized spot that was pure flesh with no scales, same for the female but the spot was only about the size of a pencil eraser.

However, you raised a great point... I would definitely see how although their original scales were albino that the repaired scales may have had a different amount of melanin available during it's creation and was colored differently. There is no question that they have their bars present, they are just extremely pale and only show during the windows of time they are not breeding.

The original rescue tank had 23 convicts, of which I believe these two spawned; I say this due to the dominate nature of this pair, their experience with spawning and the overall size differential between these two and the 21 others. I owned them for several months past full grown (about 8 months in total) and not a single one ever showed a single dark scale besides these two; but because I can't confirm they were the parents that is only circumstantial evidence.

Their current batch of fry are all about... 45 days old, so their coloring isn't prominent enough to make a determination, but I stare at them closely every night for about 20 minutes during feeding (love watching those little guys) and I've yet to spot anything that resembles this type of color anomaly.

Your notion is a mixed bag for me... it makes me very happy to hear that it may just be natural and that he is perfectly healthy, but the other edge of that sword means that I am stuck with that marking on his side... which makes no difference, but I would just love to see it gone as he is a handsome fish.

Thanks again for taking the time to spitball this with me, the expertise of individuals such as yourself is invaluable to me.


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