# Questions about Brichardi colony's



## rafini (Mar 20, 2014)

I have been thinking of setting up another tank so I have asked a lot of questions lately, I am very interested in getting a colony going. When I was a kid my dad had a 90g Tang community which he eventually removed all the residents but the brichrdi so he could observe their fry rearing and colonial behaviour. I always loved that tank and I was interested in setting something like that up again. I have kept tangs before buy quite a long time ago so I have been reading up and doing my research lately and It occurs to me that Tang tanks usually don't contain too many different species and usually a group or two of different species.

I got lots of amazing answers on here about keeping non cichlids with lake tang cichlids, and I wanted to quickly thank everyone for helping me there. Originally I wanted to set up a shelly area and then have some other species but I feel that I would ultimately find it hard to get the right stock, especially because the only stores that stock more types of tangs are in the other side of the city and very difficult for me to get to.

1. What size would be good for a Brichadi colony? Originally I wanted to get a 75 but I feel that something like a 29-55 kind of size would be a better colonial aquarium.
2. If brichardi`s can be kept with Cyps, would it be possible to keep them with Rainbows or another open schooling tough fish like tiger barbs? something that can hold their ground.
3. everything I read about juli`s implys that they can be very dangerous as can brichardi`s so I`m thinking maybe it would be a bad idea to mix them ?

Ultimately, I wanted to make a brichardy colony with something to add a little movement, barbs, rainbows , maybe red tail botia (they can hold their own)

thanks for the advice!


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

You don't want to start with too many N. brichardi, I would say 6 at an inch and a half is good. Hopefully, when the hierarchy is complete you will have a mated pair. I would stick with your original plan of a 75 gallon tank (if you get tired of the colony you still have a 75 gallon tank).

If I have a tank with: Lake Tanganyika fish they are all Lake Tanganyika fish, likewise Lake Malawi and Lake Victoria. Obviously, my personal preference.

Now, what makes N. brichardi so aggressive?
1.	They create their own social structure (pecking order). Fish that look like N. brichardi (N. helianthus, N. pulcher, etc.) should be avoided, also the survivors would probably cross breed.
2.	They protect the spawning cave and the surrounding area. Therefore you need to have a species that does not utilize the same breeding spots.
3.	They defend their young from any threat. So, you need a species that does not hunt their young so piscivores and omnivores should be avoided (N. leleupi, A. compressiceps, catfishes, etc.)

So, I look for fish that are mouthbreeders, vegetarian, from L. Tanganyika, and have no silhouette resembling N. brichardi. This conclusion pertains to all cave dwelling substrate spawners.

I have not seen any post or article on this site (or any other) that remotely supports what I am about to suggest.

There is one species that fits all of the criteria, Tropheus moorii. I have been keeping them with my substrate spawners for a couple years and have noticed no aggression between species. It doesn't take long for the substrate spawners to become conditioned to the fact that T. moorii are not a threat. In underwater photos of L. Tanganyika you see them together, so they do occur naturally. You can get numerous color variations. If you feed flake food, it is not an issue for either (however all my L. Tanganyika fish devour blanched spinach).

Joe


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## rafini (Mar 20, 2014)

I actually have a nice full container of NLS with a troph on the front that I was planning to feed to the colony anyway.

My justification for a smaller sized aquarium was that the high probability of it being a species only aquarium that it would look empty for less amount of time, and that Brichardi apparently do very well in a 30 gallon aquarium.
I was actually going to ask if Trophs could be used as a tankmate because they ocupy completely different territories and are hardy enough to not get kicked around too easily. But I didn`t want to go ahead and ask a really dumb question. The only thing that has kept me away from trophs for quite a long time is the cost seems to be pretty high especially when you need 12 or more individuals at once, and their preference for perfect water quality and tendency to get bloat. I always thought they were like the discus of Africa and therefore probably too difficult to keep for someone new to them.

I would have to get the trophs first right? to make sure the brichardi`s don`t claim the whole aquarium as their territory. If I do decide to do it then thats a justification for buying the 75.

its just I figured I could set up a nice colony of Brichardi for a lot cheaper than buying the 75 and stocking it, and I am uneasy about keepiung trophs and I feel that the risky combination would only make things harder lol.
I was trying to think of fish today that were surface or upper dwelling fish, or fish that are considered mean and nippy that could defend well against Brichardi.
Danio species, serpae tetras (********), aussy rainbows, Garra sp. (scrappy and mean and cleans algae somewhat) red tail loach (can defend themselves well even against aggressive african cichlid sp like melanchromis.
I have read that you can keep cyps with them, so anything similar to a cyp that ocupies the same region could in theory work too right? I am thinking that If I want to have some other activity in the aquarium I would have to leave the confines of Lake Tanganyika. My plan was to remove the tankmates when the brichardi have populated the aquarium sufficiantly enough. I can just move them to 120.

There are several sources of Brichardi in my city so I was thinking of grabbing them from different sources and hopefully getting a more diverse genetic make up. I have also seen Pulcher at one store, is there any other reason to pick pulcher other than preference? from what I can see the behaviour and size is identical when kept in a species tank.


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Try here to see if you can pick up fish auctioned from the breeder award programs.
http://www.calgaryaquariumsociety.com/programs.php
They do have a cichlid category.

As far as Tropheus being hard, I have not found that to be the case. I don't know if epsom salt (it has laxative properties in humans) helps (at least I have no proof), but I believe in and use it. Perform regular water changes and don't make things stressful for them.

My observations on N. pulcher is that in a multispecies situation, they are not quite as good at protection as is N. brichardi.


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## rafini (Mar 20, 2014)

I could swear I replied to this yesterday but I guess I`m imagining it, 
The forum for the calgary aquarium society says that they are having an auction in march, not entirely sure how to get to the location of it though. I know a lot of people breed stingrays here, and a lot of haps and mbuna are common too. I have seen some people online offering Tangs for sale but mostly older frontosa and a breeding group of enantiopus. neither of which I have the interest of trying.

Now I`m torn between trying tropheus in a 75, or buying a smaller size tank for a Brichardi colony. I feel like It would cost a lot to fill a 75g with tropheus. is it possible to get away with a smaller group 8-10 in a 55?
Both of these fish have interesting behaviours and establish a colony. however the Brichardi`s would be cheaper and easier to keep and in about a year I would be rewarded with a whole group that I could keep with plants even


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

My point (or the point I was trying to make) is to keep Tropheus and N. brichardi in the same tank. The tank you decide to purchase will decide your stocking levels.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Neo. "Brichardi" seem to be very serious about defending their territory, that I have seen and heard, and their fry join in with the defense as they grow. Not sure they would ignore any fish, piscivore or not. Now if they tank is long enough the other fish might be able to avoid the "Brichardi". Maybe if the tank is crowded the "Brichardi" types give up on trying to kill intruders. I would be afraid that the "Brichardi" would form a second breeding group in a 75, causing all sorts of havoc.

If you want a "Brichardi" tank which will end up with one pair, I would think most people would recommend the smaller species tank. If you want Tropheus get the larger tank.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I doubt that Tropheus and a brichardi/pulcher type will make for a good mix. I have seen Cyprichromis mixed in with a brichardi type with little chasing or aggression.


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## Tangcollector (Aug 13, 2014)

I have kept many different type of Tangs. Like was previously stated, the tank size will determine stocking levels. I would go with the 75. A pair of pulchers or brichardi's will take short time in populating that tank. They will live with almost anything.They can hang and will get real aggressive when breeding begins. They are prolific spawners. paracyprichromis and cyprochromis seem to do well with them. The only issue I take with tropheus is that you need to feed them veggie flakes or pellets only. I know that people have had success in giving them krill or shrimp or other high protein foods but I have found that if you feed them a high quality flake or pellet veggie food and keep the protein level under 40% then you will not get bloat. There just is no reason to feed them anything else as they will color up and breed on veggie food and it keeps bloat off the table unless stress or poor water quality happens. Pulchers and Brichardi's are amazing parents. They will defend against any other fish. Obviously if you have predators like calvus then you will lose many fry but eventually some will survive and the colony will begin to grow. Just remember, don't be in a hurry ( I know it is hard to do).Enjoy your fish. 
Here is a video of my Wild Caught Pulchers. They are in a twenty nine and they are breeding like maniacs.


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

75 gallons with Tropheus 'might' work with Brichardis, but personally I will not do it.

When I started with Cichlids years back, I had Brichardis in a 55 gallon tank. As a newbie, I bought fish as indiscriminately which included the evil Auratus. Once the Brichardis had ****, the evil Auratus was on the top corner of the tank.

I was planning to sell the remaining pair of Brichardis so I placed them in a 75 gallon tank I use for fish I was selling. Included in this 'sale' tank were mean, unruly Haps and Peacocks.

Well the other day, the Brichardis were acting very territorial and all the other fish were pinned on the upper half of the tank. Looking closer to see what was going on, wala....Brichardis were protecting the new ****.

So to me personally, I will do a species only tank for Brichardis.


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