# Synodontis



## upperwest (May 11, 2013)

I am starting a new tank. ITs a 72g tank that has been fully cycled. I expect to have approx 10+ cichlids. THe question is do I need a Synodontis as part of maintenance for the tank? How many?

Thanks in advance


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## PreposterousFish (Jan 8, 2013)

No you don't need a synodontis. IMO they are more of a waste factory then a tank cleaner. However, a Bristlenose pleco (Ancistrus sp.) is good at keeping algae controlled.


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## upperwest (May 11, 2013)

Thanks for the advice. What is the point of a having a syndontis if not for waste removal? Just cool to watch?


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## PreposterousFish (Jan 8, 2013)

upperwest said:


> Thanks for the advice. What is the point of a having a syndontis if not for waste removal? Just cool to watch?


Exactly. Just remember, they are another fish. They eat and they poop. No waste is being removed. However, many people use them to clean up left over food that wasn't eaten by the other fish. Which they do well. But, I like to treat them as another fish. And usually they get their own food. Waste removal is far better achieved by substrate cleaning, water changes, mechanical filtration, and of course the break down of waste by nitrifying bacteria.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

upperwest said:


> What is the point of a having a syndontis if not for waste removal?


Sorry, but that had me laugh. You know if you posted this question over on Planetcatfish.com, they would probably cut you up and feed you to some big, meat-eating pleco :lol:

Kidding aside, I have a 240G with Frontosa and a bunch of other Tanganyikan cichlids - Calvus, Leleupi, Julis, Cyps, and so on. But when my group of about a dozen Synodontis lucipinnis come out, most people will have eyes only for the catfish. They have a unique swimming pattern that makes them look like miniature sharks. Very cool fish, but they do best in groups, and keeping one for waste management in a 72G seems like rather a waste itself (bad pun intended!) - and as PreposterousFish explained, is unlikely to do much good.


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## upperwest (May 11, 2013)

Your website is spectacular, fmueller! To the extent I want to include synodontis, your suggestion is for multiple. I assume that means I'd have to make a choice to include less cichlids, right?

Thanks


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## PreposterousFish (Jan 8, 2013)

upperwest said:


> I assume that means I'd have to make a choice to include less cichlids, right? Thanks


Yes and no. That is dependent on your bioload and filter capacity, oxygenation of your water, species of catfish, species of cichlid, etc. What type of cichlid are you planning on having in the 75g? What kind of catfish are you thinking of adding?


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Thanks for the compliments, and you seem to be in good hands with PreposterousFish giving you advice. Synodontis lucipinnis are a good choice for a smaller Synodontis that could do well in a 72G. They tend do do better and come out more when in a group of 6 or more, but they grow slowly, and they are very secretive when small. In my tank with the rock background for the first 2 years I never saw the Synodontis unless I would approach the tank at night with a flashlight. I was really disappointed with these fish, but once they matured their behavior changed. Now I can always see at least some of them when I look in the tank, but 2 years is a long time to wait before you actually see a fish after putting it in your tank!


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## upperwest (May 11, 2013)

In my haste to restart my tank, I purchased approx. 15 cichlids from a LFS. Having not done the requisite homework, I just purchased fish from the misc. malawi tank without any foresight of what I wanted my take ultimately to look like. Unfortunately, 9 of those fish perished bc my tank hadnt properly cycled and the ammonia levels were much too high, exacerbated by the fact i dumped 15 fish in at once.

Consequently, I have six small juvenile misc. malawis in my tank. Like I said I want approx 10-15 fish in my tank, and I wanted to include some synodontis. Seems as though my tank might be too small to accommodate my desires.

Any thoughts?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Is the 72G a bowfront tank with length 48" and measurement on the sides from front-to-back 12"?

You would want to get the miscellaneous malawi's identified by posting pictures in the Unidentified forum. Once you know what they are, you can make your final stock selections. If you want 15 fish I'd choose 3 species and stock 1m:4f of each, depending on what the species are.

Don't put the Synodontis in until the tank is WELL cycled. Then a group of 5 Synodontis lucipinnis should work fine.


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## upperwest (May 11, 2013)

Yes, those are the dimensions.

Im a bit confused by your statement re the Synodontis'. What is the difference between a cycled tank and a WELL cycled tank? Isnt cycling like pregnancy? You either are or youre not!?


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

upperwest said:


> What is the difference between a cycled tank and a WELL cycled tank? Isnt cycling like pregnancy? You either are or youre not!?


Not really. There are always some beneficial bacteria in a tank, so some ammonia will always be converted to nitrite and nitrate. That's why cycling with fish works - to a point. If you use sufficiently hardy fish, they will pull through, the bacteria colony will grow, and eventually catch up with their waste production. Synodontis - especially young ones - are not such hardy fish. They will go belly-up at ammonia and nitrite levels that your test kit would not be able to pick up. You do not want to add them when you think you just finished cycling, because you have nitrate, and the test kit is sort of showing zero ammonia and nitirite. You want to wait until you have a well cycled tank :thumb:


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## upperwest (May 11, 2013)

Thanks again for the advice. I understand what you are saying. Doesnt seem to be an issue anyway, inasmuch as Im finding it very difficult to find someone who has Synodontis Lucipinnis for sale. All the LFS on Long Island as well as the NY distributors *** contacted dont seem to have them. Cest la vie. Although this is probably not the appropriate place to ask where to buy fish.

Thanks again!


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## upperwest (May 11, 2013)

One more thing. IF I understand what you are saying, the Synodontis Lucipinnis (SL), assuming I ever locate a seller, should be the FINAL group of fish I add to my tank, regardless, b/c the addition of new fish always affects the ammonia and nitrate levels; and if I understand your point, the SL arent hearty and require a very established tank.

Is that right?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They are hardy in general but they are sensitive to toxins. Lucipinnis are also sold as petricola or dwarf petricola.


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## Bowfront (Jun 3, 2013)

I have 2 synodontis multiplicitus catfish in my 72 gallon and they do clean up the scraps in the tank and even eat cichlid waste. They keep the sand stiffed up and I would recommend at least 1 in every cichlid tank.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

It realy depends on wheather you want any fry to survive in the tank. Synos are great cichlid hybrid clearerupers. But not great if you want breeding and young surviving in the tank.


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## RV Aquascapes (Mar 19, 2013)

Bowfront said:


> they do clean up the scraps in the tank and even eat cichlid waste. They keep the sand stiffed up and I would recommend at least 1 in every cichlid tank.


Synodontis eat cichlid waste?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Not in my experience.


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## Bowfront (Jun 3, 2013)

RV Aquascapes said:


> Bowfront said:
> 
> 
> > they do clean up the scraps in the tank and even eat cichlid waste. They keep the sand stiffed up and I would recommend at least 1 in every cichlid tank.
> ...


I've seen it many times and been kinda grossed. Just thought that was their thing.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Maybe I could see a fish eating pleco waste because it's mostly food. Maybe there was some food hiding in the debris and the fish scooped up everything together? I've seen cichlids suck in waste, but they spit it right back out.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Kind of depends on how hungry they are. Even Tropheus will eat each others poop if you keep em hungry.
Synos if they do not eat it take it in, move it about, spit it out,stirr it up and somehow it goes, maybe into the filter but main thing is its not left in nasty piles in tanks with low filtration or lots of rocks and sand.


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