# My new 33L



## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

So, I'm finally setting up my first cichlid tank. Joined the forum last year, but put off the project for awhile making sure I was up for the time and $ commitment. Got exposed to the hobby a few years ago when my son got a 5 gallon crescent shaped corner tank. Had fun with the mollies and platys, but that tank is now gone. With multiple trips to LFS, discovered African Cichlids and I've been hooked since.

My goal was for a tank in the boys bedroom to go on a ledge in the corner that is 5 feet wide and 4 feet from the floor. A 33 gallon long seemed perfect for this spot: 48 x 12 x 12(same footprint as 55). To get to this point took awhile because of the location: making sure the ledge was able to handle the tank long term.

I'm now on day 4 of a fishless cycle with the help of Seachem Stability to hopefully speed things up. So this brings me to the stocking. Ideally I would like to do mbuna because of their color and personality. Unfortunately, my choices are limited with tank size(I knew this going in). I researched past threads on the forum before choosing the tank. I found many past posts of those who tried smaller, less aggressive mbuna in this size tank. But you don't always get to read about their results. I have come up with some ideas:

Yellow labs 1m/4f with Cynotilapia Hara 1m/4f: this would be my first choice, but not optimistic b/c of the Hara's: maybe too aggressive for this size tank.
Yellow labs 1m/4f with Cynotilapia Jalo Reef 1m/4f: love the Jalo males but also maybe too aggressive.
Yellow labs 1m/4f with Rusties 1m/4f: maybe a little more realistic?
Species tank of Pseudotropheus Saulosi: 3m/7-8f: I know many are fans of this species and put in somewhat smaller tanks.
Species tank of Yellow Labs

I know that many will recommend a Saulosi species tank, but I really like yellow labs: I think their temperament might work in this size tank, but what about their size? The adults I've seen in LFS are pretty good size. If 10 mbuna are too much for this tank, I could just do yellow labs.

Tank specs:
Filtration: AC 50 times two, probably going to add a sponge filter behind the rocks
Heater: Aqueon pro 150: wish I would have researched before letting LFS pick it out for me, probably have 50W too much
Rocks: rip rap limestone from landscape supply
Substrate: PFS
Lighting: Elive 48" LED

I know I'm pushing the limits with my stocking preferences for this size tank, so criticism won't offend me. Looking forward to what you all think and recommend. Hats off to everyone on this forum! Have a great 4th!


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

I think the Cynotilapia "Afra" types like the "Jalo" are possible. The "Hara" may naturally get bigger. I don't aggression would be a major problem in any of these scenarios, just the normal Mbuna problems. Personally, I would try the Cynotilapia Jalo and Lab mix. The Jalo males firing up their bars will be interesting and contrast with the Yellow Labs.

Of course, Mbuna overgrowing is always a problem. Avoid overfeeding and feeding of higher protein foods to keep them more of a natural size. The large Yellow Labs you see are probably unnaturally large, and might even have some Red Zebra genes.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

The Tank Looks Great - Your Kids Are Lucky To Have A Cool Setup Like That To Observe In Their Room! I Agree With Noki - Any Of The Potential Stock Lists You've Presented Should Work Fine. "Hara" May Get A Little Larger Than You'd Like In That Size Tank, But I Don't Think They'd Be Overly Aggressive Compared To The Others. Though Not As Flashy As The Cynotilapia Species, A Nice Male Rusty Can Be A Stunning Fish, And The Females Are Fairly Colorful As Well. Size And Temperament Wouldn't Be An Issue With rusties, Either.

You're On The Right Track. Happy 4Th To you, Too!


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

I see you solved the leveling problem! The tank looks great.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

noki said:


> I think the Cynotilapia "Afra" types like the "Jalo" are possible. The "Hara" may naturally get bigger. I don't aggression would be a major problem in any of these scenarios, just the normal Mbuna problems. Personally, I would try the Cynotilapia Jalo and Lab mix. The Jalo males firing up their bars will be interesting and contrast with the Yellow Labs.
> 
> Of course, Mbuna overgrowing is always a problem. Avoid overfeeding and feeding of higher protein foods to keep them more of a natural size. The large Yellow Labs you see are probably unnaturally large, and might even have some Red Zebra genes.


Great info, thanks, agreed on the Jalo males


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

nmcichlid-aholic said:


> The Tank Looks Great - Your Kids Are Lucky To Have A Cool Setup Like That To Observe In Their Room! I Agree With Noki - Any Of The Potential Stock Lists You've Presented Should Work Fine. "Hara" May Get A Little Larger Than You'd Like In That Size Tank, But I Don't Think They'd Be Overly Aggressive Compared To The Others. Though Not As Flashy As The Cynotilapia Species, A Nice Male Rusty Can Be A Stunning Fish, And The Females Are Fairly Colorful As Well. Size And Temperament Wouldn't Be An Issue With rusties, Either.
> 
> You're On The Right Track. Happy 4Th To you, Too!


Thanks, I will admit it was tempting to put this tank in this basement for more viewing time. 
Encouraging to know I have some stocking options


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

somebody said:


> I see you solved the leveling problem! The tank looks great.


Appreciate it! It's not perfect, but with some adjustments and old threads research, I'm 95% comfortable.


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## anthraxx4200 (Aug 16, 2012)

i would def not reccomend the hara. i love them too but honestly they claim a huge chunk of turf in my 6' tank. they dont even get that big in comparison (right around 4'') but man o man are the males hard on each other, and then when they try to breed theyre just rough on everyone. maybe try rusties? theyve worked for me in the past. gl with whatever you choose


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

thanks for the Hara info, good to know


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Congrats on the setup, looks great!! I think you'll get some excellent side to side movement in the long, low tank, and your fish will use all of the water column you've made available. There are one or two other threads regarding Hara's size and aggression, that might not make them the best choice, but you'll probably be getting them pretty small and all together, so you'll be able to anticipate problems as they grow. I think I'd go with Labs/Jalo as first choice as well. Labs/Rusty would also be a great color combo. Although yellow labs are your cornerstone, I'll also highly recommend Lab Perlmutts. Mine are staying smaller, and they're a really nice cream with darker stripes and lots of yellow highlights on their fins. They would go well with either Jalo or Rusty

I think I'd go with 2 groups of 8, if they're 1.5-2" when you get them. I'm finding that removing them to rehome is a more painful process than I'd thought, but your set up will be a bit easier because its shallow and you can work down to the bottom without a step stool!


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

I really like the look of the tank, good job


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Thanks guys, appreciate the input. I agree with the Perlmutts, cool looking fish. Leaning towards the yellow lab/jalo combo. Discovering the drawbacks to a smaller tank; would like to do Rusties as well. So many fish, so little room. Hose, I have wondered how much work rehoming fish is! Guess I'll find out soon enough.


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## scooter31707 (Aug 24, 2012)

How the Pseudotropheus Saulosi 1m/5f and some white labs 1m/4f


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Hmmmm, interesting thought, gonna have to ponder that one


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

boomer92 said:


> Thanks guys, appreciate the input. I agree with the Perlmutts, cool looking fish. Leaning towards the yellow lab/jalo combo. Discovering the drawbacks to a smaller tank; would like to do Rusties as well. So many fish, so little room. Hose, I have wondered how much work rehoming fish is! Guess I'll find out soon enough.


So far, not a ton of work. 2 months in, I've taken 6 fish out, although that was all at once. I sort of gradually came to the "50% water out, rocks out on one side, shoo the fish, divider in, look in from the side to spot the right fish, get back above, track that fish into the corner, and work the net under him to get him out" kind of point. Doing it again, I'll go directly to that solution without passing go, and then collect my $200 in LFS credit 

I've still got those six out in the garage in a 29G, need to call the LFS that does most business in Mbuna to check on their willingness to take them. I have 2 other stores that agreed in principle, but want to check out this last one before I pull the trigger. Honestly, even though they're extra males ( I think, one of the maingano is pretty light still), I still have a soft spot for them as my first fish, and they've not really done anything wrong except grow up. So...I'm dragging my feet just a little bit.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

So, it doesn't hurt to ask. As I near stocking this tank, I have to throw a question out there, otherwise I won't know. Probable stocking is yellow labs and cyno jalo reef. When I show the family(wife) the female jalos, don't get much of a wow factor, and ultimately the tank will only have one male. My wife loves demasoni, and I can't blame her, but I explained why they are off limits. She saw them in LFS, and I also made the mistake of showing her Iggy's 75 malawi video! The way I see it, the ONLY possible way to pull this off would be to make this a demasoni species tank with 12-15. If this is way off base, understood, I just need to throw it out there to see what opinions are out there. Also, if I gave up the labs, I could do a saulosi species tank. Do you think I could get 3 males to fully color up with 7-9 females? The labs/jalos would make a cool tank, just trying to strike a balance between being a responsible fish keeper and making the tank enjoyable for those who haven't been educating themselves on C-F! Thanks for your time.


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## Ramseydog14 (Dec 31, 2013)

Here are a couple of my thoughts,..as I have a couple of 55g tanks (48"w) and keep several of the species you are considering (no Jalos). What about adding a small group of Rusties with the larger group of Saulosi? You might get more than one Saulosi male to color up in that tank..depending how dominant "the" dominant one is..and the # of females.

You could also do (imo) a group of Cyno Hara (White Top) along with Yellow-Labs in that tank,..maybe 15-16 total fish.
The female Hara are beautiful,..deep blue colors that vary, ..large fins. Easily one of the best looking female Mbuna.

Either of these two combos would be great.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

My thoughts are 1) sometimes when you get the fish in YOUR tank, they just look better. You've put a lot of thought and work into the tank so far, and come up with a well thought out, reasonable plan worth sticking to. I think it's highly possible that she'll warm up to them. They might be drab looking, but they'll surely have some personality, and you should have a pretty lively tank.

2) Given you're thinking about Demasoni, you could also consider a group of Maingano. They get a little bigger, but not as big as your labs, and they look pretty good, imo. My largest is the Tank Boss or maybe #2, and he can be a bit of jerk, but I think I've got 3 Males and 2F right now, although it could be 2M/3F, and I have 2F holding. They'd bring the blue/black and keep your labs on their toes, and the M/F are very similar, with the F sometimes seeming to be a bit lighter, though occasionally they're as dark as my dom male.

Given the work so far, I can almost guarantee that you'll enjoy whatever stock you end up with, and if you develop a good relationship with an LFS, you give yourself the option of adjusting down the road if they don't end up working for you or the family!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Your tank has the same footprint as a 55. The only downside of the tank is the small volume, which will be harder to keep nitrates in check. Demasoni only would be a sweet tank, but you'll have to be diligent on water changes and checking nitrate every so often.

Are you hitting the swap this upcoming Sunday? I got my Demasoni from a vendor there.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Thanks for the replies everyone. Always a challenge to balance a tank that works(considering my tank limitations) with wanting that wow reaction when others see it. I actually considered Hara instead of Jalos because of the females. Got a sense from the forum though that their aggression level was a step up from the other cyno species. Hose, totally agreed about sticking to the plan after all the research and work. There's just that part of me that would love to see how the Dems would work, and see my wife's reaction at the tank! I'm a little guilty sometimes of trying to make everyone happy. Iggy, I've had the same concern about tank maintenance. After sand and rocks, I really only have about 25-28 gallons of water. I'd rather not do water changes more than weekly, which could be possible if nitrates climb quickly with a heavily stocked tank. I am planning on the swap on Sunday, so I'll need to preorder soon. It's time to #$%! or get off the pot! Did see an add for vented 2-2.5 inch Jalos. Also plenty of yellow labs and demasoni! I'd be interested in your vendor if I take the plunge.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I saw those Jalo Reef as well. Can't go wrong there, and a good price. I'll PM you info on the Demasoni.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

I think Demasoni could still be mixed with labs in that tank,but the rock setup you have would need changes.A nice group of 12 Demasoni,and 4 Yellow Labs would be great,but the Demasoni will need more caves,and crevices to use. If you add more rock,you get less water,then you'll need to do more water changes too. but honestly it's a 33 gallon tank. Water changes will be a breeze. One 5 gallon bucket,switched out twice a week,heck even 3 times. That would be light work for a mbuna keeper.also I really think the 33l is a tank that just hasn't been used quite enough by the community to properly gauge stocking conditions.As such, I think everyone tends to be extra conservative with their suggestions. The footprint,which everyone always says is the #1factor for determining space is identical to a 55.As an example. Most keepers suggest 3 species in a 55,siting the 4' length provides enough space for 3 distinct territories for each species' male ,so why isn't the same rule applied to all tanks with the same length?It really is a contradiction.Personally I think the fish that are mentioned as being on the bubble for keeping in a 55,i.e Acei,Metriaclima,Labeotropheus.are really the fish you should avoid. Other ones commonly suggested for a 55 will probably be fine,The real drawback to the 33l is the actual water volume,and it's effect on water quality.Most mbuna don't often use the higher water column in a 55 anyways.this is just my opinion of course,others may disagree,and that's fine too


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## jacobm. (Mar 24, 2014)

what about considering some pseudotropheus minutus?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

So..... What did you get today?


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

So, they're here! Picked up 14 fish at the swap today. First: cyno z. jalo reef. Found a breeder who had them sexed. The females are about 2 inches, males about 2.5. My plan was 1m/4f but they were bagged as trios. So, I have 2/4. The breeder's philosophy was the 2 males focus a little more on each other and give any holding females a little more peace. Not sure I totally agree based on what I've learned here(usually see 3 males better than 2). Decided to give it a try though. I've got plenty of territories and hiding places. The worst that happens is a male who gets a new home. Second: 8 unsexed yellow labs about 1-1.25 inches. These guys look great. I see black in a lot of their dorsal fins, hope this doesn't mean I'm male heavy, or too soon to tell?

Lot of fun with the kids when I got home. After 15 min of floating in their bags, I had plenty of assistance cutting bags and holding the net. Really cool to see them get acclimated. Initially they stayed together in the corner frantically scaling the tank wall up and down. They are beginning to explore now though. There is about 2 in of space between the rocks and the back wall. We can see them darting back and forth behind the rocks, peek out the front of one of the caves, then go back for more. Also, the Jalo males are already showing some color, and have already demonstrated their ability to quickly turn the colors on and off, pretty darn cool!

I also got a good deal on some 1 mm NLS from one of the breeders you mentioned in your PM Iggy, thanks so much. I'll never buy at LFS! The dainichi pellets I got last week ended to be much bigger than I thought, probably 3-4 mm. I'll save those for down the road.

I'll update a few times down the road so others can learn from my final results as the fish mature. Also, we'll see how the 2 Jalo males get along!

On a side note, I don't have a hospital/time out tank yet. Is $20 for a barely used 20L on CL a good deal? Seems like it.

Thanks again for all help!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

You'll have to wait to sex the labs. $20 sounds reasonable, especially if it comes with glass tops.

Post some pics!


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Woo hoo! Congrats on the new pickups, so stoked to see the project come through to fruition. Looking forward to some pics with fish in the tank! One note of caution, buying the timeout tank can lead to MTS! I blinked and suddenly had three tanks running in my garage, a 29G and 2 planted 10G. Hard to pass up good deals locally on CL!


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## JP_92 (Aug 2, 2013)

=D> I'm waiting on some pics here too! opcorn:


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Really enjoying these guys. No regrets on choices! Gettin a handle on how much to feed. First feeding I thought was a small amount, ended up with food everywhere! Actually did a water change to suck some out. Oh well, live and learn.

Gotta include the cheesy floating bags picture

Please excuse the bad photos. Something else to learn. The jalo males show the most color when in a cave.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sweet! Keep it updated.


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## JP_92 (Aug 2, 2013)

I agree with the updates! I stink at taking pictures but I've found that room lights off and no flash get the best results. Correct me if I'm wrong anybody with photo skills!


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Thought I would post an update, long overdue, sorry. For the most part, the tank has done well, and has been rewarding.

Only bad news is the loss of 2 female Jalo Reefs. My best guess is bloat. I did treat, and all fish are healthy since. I made need to pick a couple females at an upcoming swap.

I have 15-18 3/4 inch Jalo fry in a 15 gallon, with another Jalo holding. I rehomed one of the Jalo males to a LFS: each male definitely had half of the tank, but the one I rehomed wasn't content with just his half. It was obvious the dynamics that were developing. The aggression wasn't off the charts, and actually entertaining at times to watch the face offs, just trying to avoid future issues. He was actually purchased within a day at LFS. He was a beautiful fish. In retrospect, he could have contributed to possible stress to the 2 lost females.

Changing 40% water once a week. Tried stretching it to 10 days, but nitrates reached 20-30, so weekly it is.

Still have the 8 yellow labs, beautiful fish. They are growing very slow, so no adjustments to gender ratios yet. Thought they would grow faster. Biggest fish is almost 2 inches, some are still 1.25-1.5 inches. May start a separate thread to elicit opinions on slow growth.

Too early to call the tank a success, but good so far, all for now.


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