# Fish freaks out and dies shortly after



## frontosamac (Feb 22, 2017)

Hello all. My fish have been dying off one by one and I'm not quite sure what's going on. They all follow the same behavior before they die. The tank has been running for a few months and I put a mix of haps/peacocks/tangs in one month ago (a few at a time over 2wks.) Most are a bit larger than juvenile size, none more than 3".

So far it's been a borleyi, a strawberry peacock and my venustus just had the incident. They twitch and do small jerky movements for a moment and then go full speed into the sand zooming where it seems they struggle with rapid movements followed by zooming around the aquarium and then stop and float. At this point they look dead so I net them and put in a little hang on box to separate. They don't seem to be breathing and then within around a minute they start to breathe floating upside down. Within the next few minutes they get upright and are eager to get out of the box. Seem back to normal but they're breathing rapidly. I put them back in the main tank and they continue to breathe rapidly. The borleyi joined right back in with the community and ate fine, but the peacock either stayed at the bottom or at the top at all times and didn't eat. Each eventually died within 24hrs both and the borleyi had its mouth wide open. This happened on separate occasions, but the Venustus just did it right as I was netting the peacock that I found dead so they're starting to die off quicker.

They act perfectly normal, look great and vibrant until they spaz out. All three were the largest fish and at the top of the pecking order. With both the peacock and venustus, it happened shortly after I turned their light on which is the stock one that came with the aquarium.

I want to think it's internal parasites, but I'm not seeing any indicators. They all are perfectly active up until they start that jerky movement. Any ideas much appreciated!

75gal - 18"L x 48"W x 21"H
2 Aquaclear 110 HOB
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20
PH - 7.9
Temp - 79F
*Use API Freshwater Master Kit
20% weekly water changes with Seachem Prime
Feed NLS pellets and Cichlid Tetra flake


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The violent reaction makes me think of a water toxin. Are you changing the water before they freak out? Vacuuming the substrate?

All fish seem to die with mouths wide open...not sure why. It does not help us.


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## frontosamac (Feb 22, 2017)

That's a good question. I did a water change this past Saturday and the peacock had the reaction on Sunday. Did a water change on Monday and the Venustus had the reaction today, Tuesday. So I'd say yes, within 24-30 hours after a water change it happens.

I vacuum the substrate on all water changes. I use my sink water for the changes which I also use for my other freshwater tank. A few weeks ago I did use my outside faucet on a small water change.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

What dosage of the Prime are you using when you do your water change?

The reason I ask is that it is possible your local water authority is either adding more disinfectant or changed from chlorine to chloramine due to either local weather conditions such as excess rainfall or different water source or a water line break and repair somewhere in the system.

Are you using a Python type water changer when doing substrate vacuuming and new water addition? When do you add the Prime?


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## BuckeyeTez (May 10, 2016)

Has your tank fully cycled? When I was first starting out I moved some established media to a hospital tank and thought I'd be good but apparently it started a mini cycle with the newly established filter and lack of BB. My fish kept hanging around the top of the tank and would spiral and dart around if he was below the surface more than a few inches. He eventually died and I woke up the next morning at like 3am (apparently I was dreaming about why he died) and tested the water. Ammonia was high and most likely the cause of the sudden death.

Like Dee and DJ said it could also be chlorine or chloramine poisoning. At times the water company has to add more chemicals to the water to treat it and we the consumers aren't notified.

Make sure that once you start adding water you add the full dose of water conditioner/prime for the full amount of the tank quantity, not the amount of water you're replacing. I'd think you'd notice chlorine poisoning within 15 minutes but I guess it could take longer. I believe Prime is good for 4.0 ppm of chlorine, so if you're dosing just the amount of water being added and the water company has upped their Chem rate, then that's an issue.

Do you have good water agitation on the surface or a bubbler to help add Oxygen?


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## BuckeyeTez (May 10, 2016)

frontosamac said:


> 75gal - 18"L x 48"W x 21"H
> 2 Aquaclear 110 HOB
> Ammonia - 0
> Nitrite - 0
> ...


Sorry, this didn't load when I first read it.


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## frontosamac (Feb 22, 2017)

Thanks for the responses.
I only use the Python to vacuum the substrate since I hook it to my outdoor faucet which doesn't have a temp control. I fill up 5gal buckets of ph/temp matched water and put a capful of prime in each 5gal bucket before putting it in the aquarium. I just looked at the label and realized I'm overdosing.. not sure why I thought to add a capful in for each bucket. Each change is 20% so I end out putting 3 capfuls in. Would that be a large enough overdose to affect the oxygen in the tank?

I did use my Python once to add water on a small change. I took a syringe with a capful of Prime added and squirted it into the water flow coming out of the Python.

I've tested twice a week for the past couple of weeks and haven't gotten any Ammonia/Nitrite readings over 0. I tend to test before a water change to see where the nitrates are and so far each time before a water change I've had 0 For Ammonia/Nitrite. I want to say it's fully cycled.

I use a Hydor Koralia 425 pump that sits higher in the aquarium and points to the top of the water to agitate it. The water has also dropped a bit so the filter flow is also agitating the surface.


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## frontosamac (Feb 22, 2017)

Correction - my wife usually doses with Prime and I do the bucket lifting  - She said full cap on the first 5gal and then only up to the first thread on the cap for the rest. So possibly 1.5-2 caps total per water change.

And an update on the fish:
So I put my venustus back in the tank last night fully expecting to find it dead in the morning. Instead, it's no longer breathing hard and has a voracious appetite. This one is the king of the tank and is acting normal. The others always still had heavy breathing, but the the venustus no longer has this behavior. Not gonna hold my breath though.

I just netted my frontosa. I noticed it hiding the past few days and he finally came to the front of the aquarium. Just put the net in and scooped him up easily. White lips (no fuzz), nipped fins, scrapes/scratches on its side, heavy breathing and looks brownish. Stays on the bottom. He almost had the same reaction when I put him in the convalescence home. He violently vibrated against the corner, but didn't go full upside down and stop breathing. Definitely getting picked on once he became weak, just odd as I was expecting him to do exactly what the others did after the violent jerking.


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## BuckeyeTez (May 10, 2016)

You could try filling a large container or a few 5g buckets with water and adding prime while letting them sit over night and then use them to do a water change the next day. That would almost guarantee the chemicals that may be in the water would be fully removed and see how they act after that.

If that doesn't help and they're still acting strange you may want to take some water to your LFS and ask them to use their liquid test kit and see if they are getting a different result. Could be bad test kit but won't know until it's proven bad.

If you do think they have a parasite, which if they were flashing and twitching could be true. I just dealt with a round of gill flukes. PraziPro is a great parasite Med to keep on hand. Order a 20oz bottle from Amazon and it'll serve you well.

It's also good to treat new fish with before adding them to your main tank to make sure you're not introducing anything to the masses. It's not very expensive and just another thing I've learned to have on hand.

I'm not near as experienced as the other two but I do know what I have dealt with and water changes seem to be the best cure for 90% of non diseases.

Best of luck and hopefully things will change for the better.


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## frontosamac (Feb 22, 2017)

Thanks for the info BuckeyeTez. I'll try leaving the water out for a while to aerate and bring a water sample next time I go to my LFS (every weekend pretty much ha)

PraziPro looks good for preventative (and curing).. I'll grab some. When this all happened I picked up Pimafix, Paraguard and Metroplex... but wasn't sure what was going on so I haven't used them. Good to have on hand though!

The frontosa ended out passing and I noticed abrasions on his side although I've never seen him flash.

So far the tank seems to be doing good. Venustus looks happy and everyone is active and eating. I ran another test as I picked up gh/kh strips.

PH - 8.0
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 30
GH - 130ppm
KH - 90ppm

Again, thanks for the info!


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## frontosamac (Feb 22, 2017)

Just wanted to add an update here. All fish are doing fine. I did a 15% water change with less Prime this time and let the water sit out. I also added some large Amazon swords in there as well. I'm going to keep monitoring but thanks all for the suggestions.

Venustus is still alive and more psychotic than ever


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