# Getting back into hobby... need some quick opinions



## Thirtypack (Apr 13, 2014)

Hello all. I am just gettin back into the hobby after a couple of year hiatus (sp)? I am doing a fishless cycle on my old 125 gallon tank using Dr Tims one and only nitrifying bacteria. I just started the cycle yesterday following the directions to the T. (I think) So I added 125 drops of Dr Tims ammonia, and an 8 oz. bottle of One and Only enough to treat 120 gallons of water. I left it for 24 hours and tested tonight using brand new API fresh water master test kit. The results are as follows...
Ammonia 0.50, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40-60, pH 8.0, water temp about 78* (tested twice for accuracy, same results) Now im a little confused as to whats going on here. I expected a lowish ammonia reading because the One and Only bacteria should be working, I also expected to have some type of nitrite reading, and did not expect any nitrate reading. I would also like to add that this tank has been in my basement for two years(ish) with the old substrate, crushed arragonite, and the rock scape and yes im a little ashamed to say the old water. Gross right? (Dont judge) Tank is filtered by two Emperor 400's, and a sump with bio wheel, Marineland I believe. Before I started the cycle, I took out all the rocks, and old water, leaving only the substrate. I refilled the tank with fresh water and put new filter pads in the filters, same bio wheels. For about a week I have been repeatedly stirring the substrate to get all of the old debris and stuff out of there, and just keep the filters running to pick it all up. Keep in mind, I am being patient, and didnt rush anything. But now that the cycle is started I need some quick input from you guys. Please let me know what you guys think, and I apologize for the ridiculously long post.


----------



## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

You don't want to stir debris out of your gravel en mass like that and get it all in your filter. If you have gravel, use a gravel cleaner (a wide mouthed plastic tube connected to a flexible siphon tube). It's much more hygienic for your tank.

I suspect that you have nitrate in your tap water. Test that first. I've used a couple of different "Aquarium overnight" products from Seachem, Tetra, Hagen, API... They don't do an awful lot. There's no way you're going to feed a tank ammonia, add this stuff, and get 0-0-10 overnight. It's impossible. You have to cycle the tank with ammonia for usually 3-5 weeks to get results. Or you can do it the easy way and bum some cycled biomedia off a friend.

The reason I know your nitrate didn't come from your ammonia is that you would have needed to add about 40ppm of ammonia to the tank to get that level of nitrate. With ammonia that high, nitrifying bacteria choke up and don't work at all. Test your tap water directly, and try a different test kit. Faulty test kits do happen.


----------



## Boe82 (Mar 6, 2014)

I'm not familiar with the Dr. Tim's one and only so I cannot comment on that, but I have read alot of people who do use it and like it. If using that I am not sure if you need to get more or not, otherwise I just used a bottle of pure ammonia from the hardware store(10% ammonia, no soap or any other additives, should not have any suds when shaken) I dosed my tank to 4ppm(don't go over 5ppm, I got that high on accident but since it was below that mark I just left it, 1-2ppm is good) and I left it alone till it suddenly dropped. It stayed at 4ppm till one night it showed 0.5ppm, then the following night it was 0ppm, once I read 0ppm I re-dosed the ammonia back up and the tank at that time was converting ammonia in 24 hours or less so I started testing Nitrites.
You want Nitrites to stay kind of low just like ammonia otherwise it could hinder the cycle or even stall it, mine again was about 5ppm, so I left it but I think 1-2ppm is good, I would re-dose ammonia every 2-3 days(started out every 2 but then went to every 3 days after a week or so, just to keep the ammonia nitrifying bacteria *fed*) and I did small water changes every night or every other night, it will again not gradually go down but have a sudden drop like the ammonia, your goal is to get ammonia>nitrite>nitrate in 24 hours or less.
The article on this website is the one I followed and it worked very well, here is the link: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... _cycle.php
It takes a lot of patience, but I am glad I did it this way, it worked out well and I know the tank will handle all the new fish just fine once they are all put in.


----------



## Thirtypack (Apr 13, 2014)

I used a python to get most of the debris, detritus etc. after I replaced all of the water. I didnt use my hands or anything like that. After initial cleaning I have been using a long wooden spoon to stir up what was/is remaining. I also tested the nitrate right from the tap 5.0, tested twice for accuracy, same result. So lets assume that the brand new factory sealed test kit is good. Pablo,thanks by the way, I never really thought to test for nitrate right from the tap. Only tested pH from the tap in the past. I should add that I am on well water and pH is also 8.0 right from the tap. I should also add that i have kept africans and a salt water reef for years from the same well water, and have never had any issues. Lucky I guess. Also, I dosed ammonia 2ppm as described on Dr Tims website, using ammonium chloride solution supplied by DrTim, and am also familiar with how the nitrogen cycle works. I am just wondering, is it possible that beneficial bacteria stayed alive in the aquarium all this time, and I am getting the high nitrate reading from the debris and detritus that I have been stirring up from the substrate? I am stumped. I am going to wait another 24hrs before doing anything and retest. What do you think? I really do appreciate your input. This was a great site for info in the past, and I am glad to see that it still is .


----------



## Thirtypack (Apr 13, 2014)

pablo111 said:


> There's no way you're going to feed a tank ammonia, add this stuff, and get 0-0-10 overnight.


Test results 24hrs after initial ammonia dose, and adding One and Only were .50-0-60


----------



## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Unlike Dr. Tim, I don't have my PhD in chemistry and bacteria, but I'd say it was possible that there were some dormant bacteria in the tank for 2 years. But after 2 years in your basement, there could be any number of crazy things in the substrate, right? Did you test the water right after you dosed it, to see what your test kit read in terms of ppm of ammonia? I'm on day 21 of a cycle started in a new tank with bottled bacteria, waiting for nitrite to go away, so I'd say just let it ride for a day or two and see where it shakes out. You'll still be waaaaaay ahead of the power curve! You're not going to permanently "break" anything by not doing anything to it besides test for 24-48 hours. Stability seems to be key, and your substrate seems to be sort of an unknown right now...


----------



## Thirtypack (Apr 13, 2014)

I should have told you that my basement is not a dungeon like environment, LOL. It is a very nice and clean finished basement. My work required me to leave my family, home, and hobbies for a while. And my wife was too busy raising our kids and such, so my aquariums just fell to the wayside. The tank was covered so nothing got in to it. And it was basically just the way I left it, except it was about half empty of water, and obviously everything in it had died. I did test the water about an hour after I dosed it, and it was right around 2ppm. Probably slightly less.


----------



## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Welcome home!

I think you're spot on about the nitrates maybe coming from the substrate, and you're on the right track, just continuing to clean it, more water changes to get the nitrates down, and judicious feeding ammonia to ensure your BB colonies get up to speed should get you to a stable tank pretty quickly, I'd think. To Pablo's point, I'd assume the filter might get dirtier than usual during this re-start up phase. Be worth keeping a close eye on it.


----------



## Thirtypack (Apr 13, 2014)

Only thing im worried about is DrTims videos says not to change the media or do water changes for first few weeks to make sure bacteria colonizes and gets a good foothold. Im still curious if BB remained quietly in this tank while it was inactive. I would love to hear if anyone gives any more feedback on this post. I will leave it alone for another 24 hrs and retest. I will let you all know what happens tomorrow. Thanks again for all the responses, I truly do appreciate all of your input.


----------



## Thirtypack (Apr 13, 2014)

I retested the water tonight. Results are as follows...
Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrates 60
After reading a ton of information on the net today,(google how long can BB survive in an inactive tank) I am convinced that some amount of BB remained inactive in the tank substrate. There is a ton of discussion, debate and research on the question of how long these bacteria can stay alive, not thrive or multiply, but simply survive in a "starvation situation". I mean these bacteria have been around for millions of years, they could not always have had optimal, pristine conditions. Anyway, I think that whatever BB existed in the substrate, the addition of ammonia, and Dr Tims One and Only bacteria, basically woke things up, and jump started the cycle. I dosed ammonia again tonite to around 2ppm, I will retest tomorrow again and let you know the result. Would still love some more input from you guys on this. Someone here must have something to add?


----------



## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Thirtypack said:


> I retested the water tonight. Results are as follows...
> Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrates 60
> After reading a ton of information on the net today,(google how long can BB survive in an inactive tank) I am convinced that some amount of BB remained inactive in the tank substrate. There is a ton of discussion, debate and research on the question of how long these bacteria can stay alive, not thrive or multiply, but simply survive in a "starvation situation". I mean these bacteria have been around for millions of years, they could not always have had optimal, pristine conditions. Anyway, I think that whatever BB existed in the substrate, the addition of ammonia, and Dr Tims One and Only bacteria, basically woke things up, and jump started the cycle. I dosed ammonia again tonite to around 2ppm, I will retest tomorrow again and let you know the result. Would still love some more input from you guys on this. Someone here must have something to add?


I'd like you to try something for me. Take exactly 3/4 of the water out. Then replace. That ought to bring you to 15ppm nitrate. See if it stays there the next couple of days or starts climbing again. Don't feed the tank any ammonia for now. Just watch the nitrate and try to find where it's coming from.


----------



## Thirtypack (Apr 13, 2014)

I will retest. And I was planning on doing a water change later. I think the elevated nitrate is being caused from all of the debris and detritus that was on the bottom of the tank when everything died off. I mean, there was alot of it. I probably have 95% of it out now. I will do the water change, vaccuming the gravel the whole time. Should get things back to normal as far as nitrates go. I am convinced this tank is cycled and the test results are showing this. But, I am not in any hurry, and am curious to see how this goes. Thanks for the input Pablo.


----------



## Thirtypack (Apr 13, 2014)

Tested again tonight results are... ammonia o, nitrite .25, nitrate 60. Did a water change. Will wait til the morning and see how it goes. The tank is definately processing ammonia. Its taking a little more than 24 hours to process 2ppm, so its not quite up to par yet. But definately processing. Im pretty psyched so far. Now need to start workin on the stock list


----------



## Thirtypack (Apr 13, 2014)

Nitrate test this morning... down to less than 20ppm. Will keep an eye on it for the next few days.


----------



## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Thirtypack said:


> Nitrate test this morning... down to less than 20ppm. Will keep an eye on it for the next few days.


Sounds good!


----------



## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Pretty impressive recovery by your BB! Sounds like you're well on the way to being re-cycled and ready to go. What are you thinking about putting in the tank?


----------



## Thirtypack (Apr 13, 2014)

Hose ill set up a post in Malawi species tab


----------

