# Coppersafe for Ich



## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Bought a new fish this past saturday and was doing fine until last night. Started hanging out towards the bottom of the tank and this morning noticed white spots on one side of his body along with his anal fin starting to rot. I went and bought some Coppersafe(made by Mardel). It says for Ich, Velvet and other external parasites. Anyways...it says no need to adjust temp, pH or any other conditions. It does say to make sure to add back to any changed water after water changes.

My question: Should I raise the temp to 86 degrees and dose 5tbl sea salt per gallon ALONG WITH the Coppersafe medication or should the medication be enough without raising temp along with the addition of sea salt?

Tank is 75G, temp steady 78 and did a 50% water change last night. I also have 995gph turnover using 2 penguin 350 bio wheels and a maxi jet 1200.

I just dosed the tank with the coppersafe and really need to know if I need to:
a)add salt 
b)raise temp to 86 degrees
c)add salt AND raise temp to 86 degrees
d)none of the above just use the Coppersafe already added to the tank.

Thanks in advance guys!! I am freaking out a bit.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Ok...been reading where coppersafe can be harmful and would be best to use salt with heat. So I am right now doing a 60% water change and adding 5 tbl sea salt. I was thinking 5tbl every 6 hours until I reach 45 tbl of sea salt which is 5 tbl for every 5 gallons and I have a 75g tank. Does that sound right? Should I add more salt or less every 6 hours? I take it it's not good to add all the salt all at once? I plan on keeping lights off for the first day and I have really good surface disturbance which should help oxygenate the water . I am also pre-dissolving the salt.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Ok....Just finished the 60% water change. I did the water change AFTER I dosed with Coppersafe so if anything it will be half as effective but regardless I did the water change anyways. I also replaced the water with 79 degree water which matched the tank water and turned the heater up to 82. When it reaches 82 I will then turn it up to 84 then slowly up to 86.

I turned off ALL the lights in the room and the tank is in almost total darkness except maybe a bit of light from the window but not much. I will go in there with a flashlight every 45 or so to check the tank temp until it reaches 86.

I added 5 tbl of sea salt to start with to start with. I am going to add 5tbl more in 4 hours every 4 hours until I reach a total of 45tbl which is (3tbl per 5 gallons and my tank is 75g so that is a total of 45tbl total). Does that math sound right?

I was going to leave the tank in almost total darkness for at least 24hrs if not a bit more.

If I am missing anything please let me know. I am still freaking out a bit.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Sorry to be such a pest but I have been doing A LOT of reading on this since around 4pm this afternoon. I hear ranges from 3tbl salt per 5 gallons to as little as 1tsp per 10 gallons.

I settled on a happy medium of 1tb per 5 gallons. At 4:15pm this afternoon I added 5 tbl with a 60% water change. At 8:15pm I am going to add 2tbl then 2 more at 12:15am then 2 more at 4:15am then 2 more at 8:15am and finally 2 more at 12:15pm tomorrow. That is a total of 15tbl for my 75g tank.

Last check my tank is now at 80 degrees and climbing slowly. I HOPE it reached 86 or 87 before I go to sleep that way it does not climb too high while sleeping and boil my fish.

So far the infected fish has moved from the bottom to the top of the tank and now back to the bottom. He did eat this morning but his anal fin looked really bad. Only about 6 or so white spots on one side but he was keeping his gill fin clinched to his side. All my fish were scratching last night and it should have tipped me off. I hope I caught it before it got really bad but I have been doing 35-40% water changes every two days for almost 6 weeks and my water parameters were and are right on point.

Anyways....so a total of 15tbl in my 75g should be enough?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

This is not something that is going to get better in a couple hours. Ich has a 3-week lifespan.

First, how are you sure it is ich? Tiny little raised spots like grains of salt? I've not seen both fin problems and ich...maybe the spots are something else?

You would want to do either meds or salt/heat but not both.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

DJRansome said:


> This is not something that is going to get better in a couple hours. Ich has a 3-week lifespan.
> 
> First, how are you sure it is ich? Tiny little raised spots like grains of salt? I've not seen both fin problems and ich...maybe the spots are something else?
> 
> You would want to do either meds or salt/heat but not both.


I am positive it is ich. It looks like little grains of salt on the fish in questions side plus most of my fish starting last night were really flashing on rocks, substrate filters, etc....When I woke up this morning the one fish(yellow rock krib) was sitting on the bottom, a bit off the substrate, and noticed the ich. He did eat however. After putting in the coppersafe I did a 60% maybe closer to 70 water change. I added 5tbl pre-dissolved salt and raised the heat to 86/87 degrees. The last I checked the heat was a bit over 80 and going in there right now to check it again and to add 2 more tbl salt.

I am really glad for your response. I LOVE my fish sooooo much and just need some reassurance more than anything else that I am on the right path. I have read so much conflicting information. Thanks for your help.... I REALLY APPRECIATE IT!!!!

Edit: just checked my tank temp and it is just a bit over 80 maybe 80.3. I hope the heater(250w) can reach 86 if not I may need to add my other heater. It is a 300w. I added 2 more tbl of salt. I pray this works.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Sounds like you're doing everything correctly for treating with heat/salt.
I usually see recommendations in the range of 2-3 tbsp of salt per 5 gallons tank water, so you're not far off.
It's possible you may need to add another heater to reach your desired temp of 86-87, it really depends on room temperature and heater wattage.
Also, keep an eye on nitrates for the duration of the treatment, if you find them creeping up, or have to perform a water change for any other reason (vacuuming the substrate is beneficial), be sure to match the salinity of the replacement water with the tank water.
As already mentioned, be patient, there's no quick fix for ich, expect to run the heat/salt treatment for at least 10 days or for a further 3 days after all visible signs disappear.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

GTZ said:


> Sounds like you're doing everything correctly for treating with heat/salt.
> I usually see recommendations in the range of 2-3 tbsp of salt per 5 gallons tank water, so you're not far off.
> It's possible you may need to add another heater to reach your desired temp of 86-87, it really depends on room temperature and heater wattage.
> Also, keep an eye on nitrates for the duration of the treatment, if you find them creeping up, or have to perform a water change for any other reason (vacuuming the substrate is beneficial), be sure to match the salinity of the replacement water with the tank water.
> As already mentioned, be patient, there's no quick fix for ich, expect to run the heat/salt treatment for at least 10 days or for a further 3 days after all visible signs disappear.


Ok...thank you so much. I did vacuum my gravel last night so you think I should wait a couple days and vacuum it again along with another 60% plus water change? You think I should do the water changes tomorrow or wait? I know I am asking a lot of questions but I want to make sure I get this right. I finally have the fish I want with virtually no aggression and I believe they are all males so I don't want to lose any. Thanks again.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

One last question....should I turn on a lamp with low light in the room with the tank so I can observe the fish or should I leave it completely dark for 24hrs and use that light tomorrow? The reason being I don't want the fish to be any more stressed than they already are. I went in and checked the temp just a minute ago and they were all sleeping peaceful...at least the ones I could see. I could not find the sick fish but I am sure he is hiding somewhere. Thoughts?

Edit: Not sure if you guys can tell but I am on this like an oscar on a goldfish. The sick fish is out now close to the top just hovering and his anal fin looks pretty bad. All the other fish are sleeping peacefully but I did shine the flashlight on the fish I could see and the fusco looks to have a white spot(ich) on his head. The heat is still rising but slowly. It is now at 81.

The water movement looks to be really good and I removed everything from the top of the tank so the surface of the water has alot of fresh air with no canopy or glass over the top. It is just open to the air. I thought about adding the venturi to my maxi jet but I think I probably have enough surface movement. My tank turns over roughly 13 times an hour.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Just took a couple pics. The rot on his anal fin is looking pretty bad and his tail is showing signs as well. The ich is now on both sides but the specs are small and I can't capture on my crappy camera. He is still holding one fin to his side and wabbles back and forth but is staying upright. He goes from the bottom to the top.

I thought my fusco had a spot on him but when I turned on the light he did not. All the other fish seem to be fine. Temp is now almost at 82 and climbing. Hoping to hit 86 before I go to sleep.

Wanted to take pics so you guys can see what I see. Should I just continue to let my temp rise to 86 and add salt...hope for the best? Is fin rot somewhat normal when a fish is stressed with ich?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No I think you have an additional problem with the fins...ich is only the spots. Is the fin being damaged (clean bites and splits) or is it infected and rotting away?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

DJRansome said:


> No I think you have an additional problem with the fins...ich is only the spots. Is the fin being damaged (clean bites and splits) or is it infected and rotting away?


Well....I just turned on one of the lights and he is near the top of the tank. His tail and especially his anal fin are rotting away. His anal fin looks REAL bad. His left gill fin looks pretty bad as well and he is not moving it. However from what I can tell from where he is camped out the ich looks like it has retreated...i think but it is hard to tell. He did try to eat but spit it back out. My fusco has one spot on his lip. The other fish look ok. There is no chasing or anything else after lights out and they seem to be doing ok at 86 degrees. Actually the highest it would go during the middle of the night was 85.7 degrees and that is with both heaters cranked up.

Should I go and buy some melafix to try and repair his fins and if so will it be ok to use in combination with the heat and salt treatment?

I have one light on now so I could inspect the fish and feed them. They have been in complete darkness since 4:15 yesterday afternoon. Should I turn the light back off again?

I was going to do a water change tomorrow and suck up some of the gravel and add salt back afterwards. I did a 60% water change yesterday afternoon. What would be your course of action?

Thanks for your help. You don't know how much I appreciate it!

EDIT: Heat now a bit over 86 so that good. The sick fish is out now with the other fish about 2" off the bottom. The ich is still there but not as bad. His anal fin and gill fin look REALLY bad. I need to know the best course of action for this fin rot and will it work with the heat and salt treatment? Maybe I should just do a 50% water change/gravel vac every 2 days and no medicine for the fin rot and hopefully it heals with the water changes? I read so much conflicting info about adding medicine/antibiotics with high heat and they say its best to just do large water changes every couple days. They also say leave the tank in complete darkness as it reduces stress the fish are enduring. I turned the light on for about 30 minutes to inspect and feed so should I do that every day or don't worry about feeding and leave them in darkness?

I am sorry I am being such a pain in the rear but I am trying to cover all my bases and to learn a bit in the process.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

My guess is fin rot; I find that it's usually a secondary infection, so I'd say that if you get rid of the ich, the rot will go away as well.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

BelieveInBlue said:


> My guess is fin rot; I find that it's usually a secondary infection, so I'd say that if you get rid of the ich, the rot will go away as well.


Ok....going to remove my plants and vacuum my substrate and however much water that removes will count as my water change. It is usually around 30% or so. I will then add the pre-disolved salt and continue to leave them in darkness. Temp is steady right at or a tiny bit above 86.

I will then turn on one light around noon tomorrow to inspect and feed and turn the lights back off after half an hour or so. If I notice the ich has fallen off I will go ahead and vacuum the substrate right away but if it is still pretty much present on the fish then I will wait to vacuum the next day and re-add the salt.

I want to keep it dark as not to stress the fish. I was wondering when might be a good idea to turn one of the lights back on? Are they generally ok in complete darkness for multiple days at a time?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Just finished vacuuming gravel and removal of live plants. It was about a 35% water change and I added 6tbl salt.

I did see some good news though. The sick fish was really chasing and fending away any fish that invaded his little territory he set up. I am glad to see he has fight left in him.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Woke up this morning and my sick fish was in really bad shape. I went ahead and made an executive and put him down. I feel terrible. 

Well.....my heat is still up at 86 degrees. Going to leave one light on for a while today since my fish are showing no signs of ich or stress. They seem to be really happy. Going to do another 30-35% water change tonight and vacuum more substrate then going to add back in the salt. Going to continue this for 8 more days making it 10 days total.


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