# Is this HITH !?!



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

I just noticed some holes on my oscars head & around his eyes. I don't have a light on his tank, and it's hard to see him that good. I have no idea how long he has had these . He also has some redding around his mouth. What gives ? I haven't change my rountine, water test are normal. Any suggestions ?

Here are the speck:
110 gallon tank
1 Oscar & 1 Pleco
Cyled-up & running since Feb 08
Temp 72
Amm. 0
ph-6.0

This is what he looked like before:










This is what he looks like now with the holes:










If this HITH, just raise the temp, and daily water changes ? Is there anything else I can do ?


----------



## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

that does look like hith to me.

I would increase the temp SLOWLY to 80-82, and add aquarium salt. I would also increase the PH to at least 7.0 but do this change slowly as well. I like to make the changes one at a time to reduce stress so I would increase the temp over a day; then another day add salt slowly; then another day increase the ph.

also here is a good link on hith
http://www.tropicalfishdata.com/disease ... _head.html

good luck


----------



## BlackShark11k (Feb 16, 2007)

Looks like HITH to me. Best remedy is water changes. What are your nitrate and nitrite levels? You ph seems quite low, but seeing as you've had him since february, i don't think it would matter to change it. I've seen oscars thrive in water with a ph of 6.5...

Just up the water changes. Changing the ph can be risky, even for experienced aquarists.


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Agreed, best to leave the ph alone, it's difficult keeping it consistent doing daily water changes. Consistency is key.


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

I've had my oscar over a year, but he's only been the 110 since feb. I'm going to buy some salt, and will start to slowly raise the temp. today. Let me know if you think of anything else.

Thanks all for the help. :thumb:


----------



## 15''oscar (May 9, 2008)

go buy some kosha salt from the grocery store for your salt


----------



## rED O (Mar 1, 2008)

i would keep his water super clean and soak his food in boyds vita chem.

hey 15 inch oscar


----------



## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

Keep nitrates under 40 ppm - if you can't do that with large water changes every week then you're overfeeding or you've got somthing rotting in your tank.

HITH is most commonly caused by poor water conditions - but some sketchy studies have shown it to be related to hexamita as well.

If you don't start to see improvments - that is, if it doesn't stop growing in size - after doing somthing like 50% water changes weekly then I would suggest getting some metro and doing a 5 day treatment as well as feeding him metro laced foods.

Keep in mind wounds from HITH take a long long long time to heal up - so you won't see them actually regress for months, if not a year - but you should see the holes stop spreading and growing in size.


----------



## 15''oscar (May 9, 2008)

rED O said:


> i would keep his water super clean and soak his food in boyds vita chem.
> 
> hey 15 inch oscar


hey RED O whats up ..


----------



## Al'Thor (Mar 11, 2006)

Try to get nitrates between 10-20ppm and keep them there, the lower the better. Whether that's a 30% water change every other day or 50% every three days, the main idea here is to keep the nitrates as low as possible. Test your water.....that will tell you how often to change it. The suggestion of raising the temp to 80-82 degrees is helpful too. If you do this, try to add an airstone to increase oxygenation of the water, because higher temps will deplete the oxygen levels a little faster. Adding a drop of VitaChem to pellets is also a good idea.

The main thing is to keep your water as pristine as possible. Do this and you should start seeing real improvement quite quickly. Water change, water change, water change...



15''oscar said:


> rED O said:
> 
> 
> > i would keep his water super clean and soak his food in boyds vita chem.
> ...


rED O.....15"......nice to see you guys here. opcorn:


----------



## BlackShark11k (Feb 16, 2007)

15''oscar said:


> go buy some kosha salt from the grocery store for your salt


A lot of people don't recommend that because of Iodine


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Epsom salt is what I use.


----------



## 15''oscar (May 9, 2008)

Al'Thor said:


> Try to get nitrates between 10-20ppm and keep them there, the lower the better. Whether that's a 30% water change every other day or 50% every three days, the main idea here is to keep the nitrates as low as possible. Test your water.....that will tell you how often to change it. The suggestion of raising the temp to 80-82 degrees is helpful too. If you do this, try to add an airstone to increase oxygenation of the water, because higher temps will deplete the oxygen levels a little faster. Adding a drop of VitaChem to pellets is also a good idea.
> 
> The main thing is to keep your water as pristine as possible. Do this and you should start seeing real improvement quite quickly. Water change, water change, water change...
> 
> ...


hey buddy hows it going.. :fish: :thumb:


----------



## Al'Thor (Mar 11, 2006)

artemis1 said:


> A lot of people don't recommend that because of Iodine


Kosher salt doesn't contain Iodine, you may be thinking of table salt which contains anti-caking agents as well. Kosher is fine to use, as is sea salt.


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

I just bought the Aquarium salt in fine grain for the LFS to use. I'll test tonight. Thanks for all of the help.  He is already looking a little better. I looked at the LFS for any type of Vits., I couldn't find any. I'll have to look online later. Again, thanks for all the quick help. :thumb:


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

I can't find anything called VitaChem. Is that the full name ? :-?


----------



## BlackShark11k (Feb 16, 2007)

Al'Thor said:


> artemis1 said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of people don't recommend that because of Iodine
> ...


Wasn't sure  Didn't feel like getting up to check :lol:


----------



## Al'Thor (Mar 11, 2006)

Stina said:


> I can't find anything called VitaChem. Is that the full name ? :-?


Boyd's VitaChem. If you can't find it at your LFS, here's a link that you can order it online.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... catid=4998

I just put 1 drop per pellet and let it sit for a minute, then feed. I only do this about twice a week.


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks :wink:


----------



## Natalie (Jun 11, 2007)

I'm not sure if anyone is mentioned this, but it's a good idea to remove the carbon from your filters as well. Studies have shown it may be linked to HITH... although I'm not sure how much credibility there is to that claim.

Good luck with your fish!


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

Hey, should I treat the pleco's food with the VitaChem also, 
What % water change every day ? :-?


----------



## Al'Thor (Mar 11, 2006)

Stina said:


> Hey, should I treat the pleco's food with the VitaChem


While not absolutely necessary, it wouldn't to do from time to time. This would be much more effective if your Pleco goes after his food right away. The more time the vitamin-laced algae wafer sits on the bottom, the more of the vitamin that will leech out into the water.



Stina said:


> What % water change every day ? :-?





Al'Thor said:


> Try to get nitrates between 10-20ppm and keep them there, the lower the better. Whether that's a 30% water change every other day or 50% every three days, the main idea here is to keep the nitrates as low as possible. Test your water.....that will tell you how often to change it.


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

The temp. is now at 80. I've been doing 15% daily water changes with the salt & the VitaChem. The holes aren't getting better, they are getting worse. They are kind of blending together & getting bigger. I haven't really noticed any new ones though. He's not eating like he normally does. Now what ? The PH in the tap is 8.6 & the PH in the tank is 6.3. Show I just go ahead with the 30% change every other day, even with the PH difference ?

Thanks for any help.
Stina


----------



## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

Wooo what a difference in pH!!!

What are your other water readings?

With a swing like that it's very likely that sudden swings back and forth in pH are causing him to stress and keep the HITH progressing.

Did you try and treat him with metro like I suggested?


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

Sorry, I should have noted that I was aging the water in three 5 gallon bottles over night before use. That's why I didn't want to do 30 % changes, I don't have that many bottles.

The other water readings as of last night are as follows:

No2:10
No3: 0
GH: 25
Chlorine: 0
KH: 6.2
Amm.:0
Temp: 80.5

I couldn't find any Medication with Metro in it until last night. I followed the directions on the box. It is API General Cure. The Active Ingredients are: 250 mg Metro & 75 mg Praziquantel per packet. I'm going to dose it again on Tuesday. Hopefully this does the trick.

Thanks for the help,
Stina


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

Well, I'm done with the General Cure treatment & did my 25 % water change. I have noticed that the holes on Oscars chin :-? are getting better. However the holes on his forehead don't look better & I think that he has 2 new holes. How can one part get better & the other worse ? His color is also getting darker on his head than normal. Now what ? Start over with the water changes again ?

 Thanks for all you guys patiently helping.


----------



## ksane (Mar 19, 2008)

You need to do a heck of a lot bigger water changes than 15%-30% every 2-4 days. With a Plec and an Oscar in a 110 gal you should be doing probably TWO 50%-75% water changes a week just as maintence alone once the HITH is cleared up. I'd be doing at least 40%-50% every day until the HITH starts getting better. Just get a trash barrel from WalMart, that's the easy way to age your water. I use a pump that I hook the water hose to in order to pump the water into the tank. I know it sounds like a lot of work and for a few more weeks it will be.
But you've got 2 HUGE bio-load fish. Fresh water and LOTS of it is what's going to cure his HITH. I don't think you're being near aggressive enough with the water changes. You're only changing enough to keep the nitrates at the same level, you're not reducing them.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news  Just get real aggressive with water changes and you'll be surprised at the difference.


----------



## Al'Thor (Mar 11, 2006)

Any chance of getting an updated pic? I'm concerned because of the presence of nitrites and the absence of nitrates. How are you performing your water changes?


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

ksane: I was doing a 15 % water change every day. I only did the 25% change because I was following the directions on the API General Cure Medicaiton.

Al'Thor: I'll try for some new pics when I get home later. As far as the water changes, I was filling up the 3 five gallon bottles, treating them with the regular dose of Aqua Plus Tap water conditioner & Top fin Conditioning salt. Then the next night I would use them for the water change. Than fill them up again for the next night.

I also added a AquaClear 70 Powerhead last night.


----------



## ksane (Mar 19, 2008)

Definitely not enough water changes. Also, water doesn't "age" when it's sitting still in 5 gal jugs. It needs circulation, the easiest way is to put a bubbler in it. It'd take litterally days to 'age' it in an open barrel if you didn't have circulation in it. In a small-mouthed jug it'd take even longer. If you're using the jugs you might as well just be using straight tap water with a python and doing a *lot *bigger water changes.


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

ksane said:


> Definitely not enough water changes. Also, water doesn't "age" when it's sitting still in 5 gal jugs. It needs circulation, the easiest way is to put a bubbler in it. It'd take litterally days to 'age' it in an open barrel if you didn't have circulation in it. In a small-mouthed jug it'd take even longer. If you're using the jugs you might as well just be using straight tap water with a python and doing a *lot *bigger water changes.


Maybe the water here is different than yours. I have tested it many times before I filled the bottles, just after filling the bottles, and at different lengths of time after the water has set for up to three weeks. The pH level out of the tap is typically at 8.6. The pH level after sitting in the bottles for 24 is roughly 7.0. After one week it drops to about 6.8. I've tried aerating it with a bubble stone a few times, but it definitely didn't speed things up. I agree that bigger water changes might help. I REALLY want to avoid the 50-70 gallon wate changes as my oscar gets a little stessed when I do more than 15-20 gallons at a time.


----------



## the General (Aug 26, 2007)

I read somewhere that some water companies will use additives to send the pH up really high, like your 8.6, in order to avoid too much wear and tear on the pipes due to water acidity, and that this can cause big shifts in pH overnight. You might want to look into whether or not this could be the case with your provider.

Maybe look into getting an RO unit?


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

The water company changed the water to local reserves for a while. That was a while ago though. I have heard of RO, but I don't know what it is really.


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

RO is reverse osmosis... do a quick google search on it


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

Man,  Those are expensive.


----------



## Stina (Sep 23, 2007)

Well, should I start the 30 % changes now, or just keep up with the 15 % ? The holes on top aren't getting bigger now, and the bottom ones are getting better, healing up niceley. He is eating a little more like himself also.



Stina said:


> The temp. is now at 80. I've been doing 15% daily water changes with the salt & the VitaChem. The holes aren't getting better, they are getting worse. They are kind of blending together & getting bigger. I haven't really noticed any new ones though. He's not eating like he normally does. Now what ? The PH in the tap is 8.6 & the PH in the tank is 6.3. Show I just go ahead with the 30% change every other day, even with the PH difference ?
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> Stina


----------



## ksane (Mar 19, 2008)

My opinion is I'd have started a min of 50% water changes a long long time ago. Not that you have to do it my way 
Good 6-stage RO units can be bought for $150.00, not that expensive. But I don't think you need one anyway.


----------



## ksane (Mar 19, 2008)

Not sure why this was a double post, but there's no way to delete it so I figured I'd just edit to apologize.


----------

