# My 90



## bentcountershaft

Well, I decided to start documenting my 90 gallon project on here. It's a slow going project that is driving my wife absolutely insane, but it will be worth it in the end. A few pics:

From the Living Room side (don't mind my sister in law):

The dining room side:

The rock build which will hide pretty well everything:



From the Living Room again, without the tank but with my impatient wife (current state of tank and wife  ) :

From the Dining Room again, minus tank with top door open (this is where everything will go) :

This is the part that is probably responsible for 85% of my wife's impatience. Tank on dining room table with rock in for fitment before painting/coating:





I'm currently designing/building the side grounds which will hide everything that won't be in the center rock. After those are complete I will coat/paint them with drylock and concrete color dye. It will probably be a little while before I'm able to do that though, due to cold temperatures. I'll have to do it in the barn and I can't afford to let the heaters burn gas all night long when it's in the 20's for the stuff to cure. If we get three days in a row with daytime temps in the 50's I should be good (won't take that much to raise the barn temp to mid 60's). By that time I should have everything I need to put it all together and get some water flowing. I'm hoping to be at that point by Easter.


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## iceblue

Excellant. :thumb: I don't think anybody would mind your sister in-law. :lol:

Here's hoping for some global warming in your area. I really like the way your going with this. Keep us posted.


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## remarkosmoc

I really like the pvc rock spray-foam thing. Project looks great. :thumb:


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## stslimited84

That looks outstanding! :thumb: Job well done on a job not yet done.

So that is drylock you have coated on the pvc?


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## bentcountershaft

Thanks for the positive responses, it's definitely a labor of love.



> So that is drylock you have coated on the pvc?


No, that's just the Great Stuff expandable spray foam's natural color. After I get the two pieces done for each side of the tank I'll put the drylock on all of them at the same time. It should end up being a dark gray color and I'll most likely use black sand for substrate.


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## nicholas316

nice tank man


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## IrkedCitizen

The only problem I see with it is going to be that pvc rock thing. If you ever have to net a fish out you'll have to remove that before attempting to do so. Otherwise the fish will all swim inside of it once the net goes in.


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## bentcountershaft

IrkedCitizen said:


> The only problem I see with it is going to be that pvc rock thing. If you ever have to net a fish out you'll have to remove that before attempting to do so. Otherwise the fish will all swim inside of it once the net goes in.


Yeah I know. Actually, due to the wall overhang the rock won't come out at all. To remove the rock I have to pull the tank out of the wall. I'll have to rely solely on traps to get any fish out. I plan on stocking very lightly and doing a fishless cycle so with any luck I won't have to pull anyone out. Yeah right, I know that will never happen. :wink:


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## remarkosmoc

I have a tank with a bunch of rockwork I won't want to move to retrieve fish. I put the net in a couple times a week when I feed them. This way they aren't afraid of it and I can quickly net them since they associate the net with food. Only problem is if I'm getting a sick one that isn't eating but that is pretty rare.


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## F8LBITEva

That look scool, I really like that PVC cave. is that expanding foam safe for tanks? I dont understand how its going to get sealed. please explain Id like to try and build one too.


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## bentcountershaft

tannable75: That's a great idea, I never thought of that. I'll start that on one of the other tanks this weekend.

F8LBITEva: The brand of foam I used is safe for tanks. It's called Great Stuffand is available at most big home improvement stores (Home Depot, Lowes etc) As far as sealing it, I'm using a product called Drylock that is basically a waterproofing sealant used on concrete. I'm not using any concrete though, I'll be putting using paint brushes to apply that directly on the expandable foam. This is a bit of an experiment so you might want to hold off on trying it until I know how well it works. I'm going to tint the Drylock using this stuff. It should turn out dark gray/charcoal in color.

A tip on applying the foam to PVC. Large areas of undisturbed smooth surfaces are hard for the foam to stick to. On the two 'towers' I broke several small pieces of PVC and zip tied them to help break up the smooth areas and to give the foam something to adhere to. On the insides of the larger tunnels and caves I put several random gobs of silicone and let it cure beforehand. Then I did them in three stages over three evenings, rotating the rock so that I was just putting foam on the lower third of the pipe. This seemed to work well. After all the foam was done and had set for a couple of weeks I *carefully* used a heat gun to harden it a little. If you get it too hot for too long it will become brittle so be very careful when doing that. I had planned on carving out the rock to look more "rockish" I guess but I kind of dug the natural look of the foam. Almost like a coral reef in a way. It's going to be a major pain getting the Drylok in all of those nooks and crannies though, so I may yet regret that decision.

Edit: Speaking of regret, I wish I had used gray PVC instead of white. The slots I cut in the towers are for powerhead and filter intakes. I didn't want to put any foam in there because I need the clearance so you'll be able to see bits of white unless I get the foam just right. Gray would have covered better. I'm sure there are a couple places in the tunnels and caves that might show as well. I think I'm going to try to get the Drylock to adhere to those areas. Will probably do ok on the small bits, but the towers may be a different story.


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## iceblue

Nice tips on your application of Great stuff. :thumb:

To darken the inside of your caves I would recommend Krylon Fussion spray paint available at your local Wal-mart in the paint dept. I used it to paint my return lines (black) and it sticks nicely. I don't know how it would effct your foam but you might try it in an unobtrusive corner.


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## bentcountershaft

iceblue said:


> Nice tips on your application of Great stuff. :thumb:
> 
> To darken the inside of your caves I would recommend Krylon Fussion spray paint available at your local Wal-mart in the paint dept. I used it to paint my return lines (black) and it sticks nicely. I don't know how it would effct your foam but you might try it in an unobtrusive corner.


Is that stuff really non toxic? I've seen that brand name come up a time or two on this forum but I guess I thought it was for painting the backs of tanks. If it really is safe that could be a tremendous help.

Edit: I just did a search and read about 50 positive posts about using Krylon Fusion. I will definitely be trying that on a sample piece to see how the foam reacts. I wish I had prepainted the pvc frame before applying the foam now. Oh well, I have an empty 125 in the basement to plan for lol.


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## bentcountershaft

A bit of an update. I picked up some of the Krylon Fusion paint to try on the exposed bits of pvc. It seemed to work well and no ill effects on the foam that I can see after a few days. This encouraged me to try something that I may end up regretting. I sprayed the the whole rock with black and gray. It looks pretty good, and as I had hoped, no ill effects on the foam. After doing this though, I'm wondering if I didn't create problems for myself down the road. I'm concerned with the paint flaking off the foam. I don't know if I should try to apply the Drylok on top of this or not. It looks good as is, but will it last? I don't know. I wish I had stuck with my original plan, doing this was a spur of the moment type thing that wasn't all that well thought out. I think I"m just going to leave it as it is and see how it works out. If it starts coming apart I'll just have to make another rock. Not what I want to do, but not the end of the world either. Here's a couple pics:





Whether it holds up or not is for time to decide. I have to admit it looks pretty good right now.


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## bentcountershaft

I've been waiting to do the side pieces of the tank, basically two small backgrounds on each end, until I had all of my equipment (filters, pumps etc.) on site to allow for proper clearance of everything I need to hide. Today the UPS guy brought just about everything I need to get started on these.

The first thing I need to make space for is my UGJ system. Before I start on this I want to be sure I understand the concept correctly. When I first started reading about these on here, I was thinking the point was to blow stuff out of the sand, out into open water, not letting it settle in deep. The more systems I see that people post, it seems they tend to blow across the surface of the sand to direct debris toward filter intakes. Is this what I should be going towards? I was going to try something different from what I've seen on here, but I'm not sure it will perform adequately if that's the case. I had planned on using clear vinyl tubing, with several rigid plastic 3/16" tubes sticking out of it every few inches. These tubes would remain submerged in the substrate (in theory) and not stick out of the sand because they would be parallel with the bottom of the tank. My thinking was that it would flow smaller amounts of water through each tube into the sand, but would have a lot more outlets and wouldn't cause any sandstorms. However, if I should instead focus on directing stronger flow across the surface of the sand these won't work. I won't be able to direct them like I could a molded piece of pvc. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated so I can get started this weekend. Oh, I'm sure someone will ask, I'll be using a Quiet One 4000 pump to run the jets. It's rated at 1017 gph.

The next project I'll be doing this weekend will be my lighting system. It's going to be relatively cheap but should work well. I bought four 5 1/2" clamp-on work lights from Lowes:










I'm removing the clamps and will be attaching them to a piece of egg crate. In them I'm putting 6500k spiral flourescent bulbs (75 watt equivalent):










In addition to these, I bought some of the Powerbrite LED Actinic Lights:










I'm using one base and one extension, which really isn't enough for the size tank, but since it's just to accent it I think it will work fine. The plan is for these to be on along with the 6500s during the day and then to stay on about two hours longer at night, so that the tank is nice and mellow looking while I'm watching TV. It should look like a slightly brighter moon light. These will also be attached to the same piece of egg crate as the 6500s. this seems to be a good solution as there is very little heat from either light. I plugged one of the bulbs into the work light and had it set face down on a piece of egg crate for about 30 hours, to make sure there wouldn't be any melting issues and there wasn't. It was barely warm. I'll post pics of the completed light this weekend for a better representation.

Again, if I could get an opinion or two regarding the UGJ system, I would be most grateful. That's the biggest hurdle standing between me and doing the sidegrounds.


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## iceblue

I like what your using for light. :thumb: Energy effeciant and in a good color range for daily lighting. I'm using something similar for my 350g. Thier security lights that I found at the home depot model # 9265/9266 about 3/4 of the way down this site. http://www.lightsofamerica.com/sec.htm

I used cold cathodes for my moon lighting set-up and am real happy  with how they look. Here's a picture of both lighting systems in action. About a 1/4 of the way down this page. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... 1&start=15

For your UGJ a lot depends on how the tank is set up after all filters and decorations are in place. Ideally you want the UGJ and filter inlets and outlets to work in concert to keep the detritus from settling on the bottom. With this in mind you'll want to work out your rock and decor placement to optimize the tanks current. Don't be hard on yourself if it's not perfect. Some gunk may collect in certain areas but it's all the more easier to clean-up during water changes.

Keep up the good work. I really like what I see.


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## bentcountershaft

Thanks, I really like your project tank, very inspiring. I've been playing around with my light set up on the tank and I think I'm going to need one more led strip to get the look I want. I wish I had done this earlier in the day because I can't get it another strip by the weekend now. Looks like I'll be concentrating on the UGJ system, which is a more pressing issue anyway.


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## Charrisse

Really great ideas! I might steal em 
I used the great stuff on my DIY background - and to give it a more rock like look, I took a butane torch and lightly went over the whole thing. Its melts it together and smooths it out a little. becareful though cause it catches fire EASILY haha I have a fe burn holes I turned into last minute caves  But it really does smooth it out and give it great rock texture.


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## bentcountershaft

I was afraid of using a flame on it so I went with a heat gun instead. Not quite as hot but still helped stiffen the foam a bit. I guess we Hoosiers think alike 

This morning I had planned on going to Lowes to get a bunch of pvc and start playing with plumbing. However I awoke to just over a foot of snow. This unfortunately will delay my trip.


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## bentcountershaft

Small Update:

After careful consideration of how I was going to do water changes I opted to do a continuous water change system. I drilled the tank today for a single bulkhead that will be used to get rid of the excess water. On the opposite side of the tank I'll have The water dripping in after going through a whole house filter and an inline heater module from Lifeguard. I figure the water might as well be up to temp when it comes in. For dechlorination I'm ordering an Eheim Liquidoser to dose prime. As all these components are mechanical excepting the doser which is battery operated, I'll have no worries in the event of a power outage.

Freshly drilled tank


I've been waiting to get the tank drilled before I started on the other side's background/sideground framing. Here's a couple pics of the inlet side's framing. Note, there will be a few pvc caves added before foaming. Hopefully I'll have both pieces foamed and ready to paint by next weekend.


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## iceblue

Are the the two bottom outlets for your ugj? I would recommend having them an 1" above the substrate with the jets pointed up at a slight angle.

When I set mine up I placed the system in the tank with about 6" of water and adjusted all the fittings untill I got the flow I was happy with. I then marked them with a short line from fitting to pipe so when I glued the whole thing together everything remained in place.

Depending on how much flow you'll be getting from them if you have them directly above the sand blowing across you may be digging troughs across your subtrate. You might try testing them in a tub with some sand untill your sure about how the flow will work.

Looking good so far. :thumb: This should be a nice diy project overall.


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## bentcountershaft

Those aren't the outlets but that's what the outlets will be attached to. I have some 2" long pieces that I will boil to shape them like I've seen elsewhere. Those two elbows will be pivoted up a bit though I'm not sure how much. I've been considering trying to do some testing with them first so I can get the flow to being as close to optimal as I can before I put the foam on but I'm starting to get impatient.

Speaking of boiling PVC, I boiled some larger pieces that will make up the caves on the two end pieces to give them a not so round look and they turned out great! Only bad thing is that they're a little harder to try to fit together to design the stacks but I think I have that worked out.


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## bentcountershaft

I have the left side piece "foamed" and it's currently drying/curing/expanding. I just did the preliminary foaming as I'm sure I'll need to do some trim work and some touch ups. A few pics of the frame and foaming.













This will basically cover the entire left side panel of the tank, hiding two aqua clear filter intakes, one heater, and four return jets from the canister filters (2 mid depth, 2 along bottom). The opposite side will be pretty close to the same thing, hiding the exact same components but it will also be hiding the drain outlet for the continuous water changing system. I'll start framing that tonight or in the morning, depending on how lucky I am.


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## partsrep

Sorry...double post. See below


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## partsrep

tannable75 said:


> I have a tank with a bunch of rockwork I won't want to move to retrieve fish. I put the net in a couple times a week when I feed them. This way they aren't afraid of it and I can quickly net them since they associate the net with food. Only problem is if I'm getting a sick one that isn't eating but that is pretty rare.


I've been doing that myself lately because of the large amount of rocks and hiding places I have. Many of my fish will swim into the net without fear. I gently back it up to free them. I just wish the one in the tank I was trying to net didn't know I have his number. He seems to be one of only a few who stays away.

That being said I think the non-removeable rock structure will become something to be sorry about someday. A sick fish tends to hide and will probably end up in that structure where it may very well die. That could be a problem.


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## fishyfishyfishy

Nice work!!!

Any reason you just didn't use black pond foam to begin with? Just curious....


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## bentcountershaft

partsrep said:


> That being said I think the non-removeable rock structure will become something to be sorry about someday. A sick fish tends to hide and will probably end up in that structure where it may very well die. That could be a problem.


I think I've come up with a solution to that, although probably not a very good one. I'm going to use an Aqua Clear 901 power head with some flex hose on the outlet to blow them out of the tunnels if it comes to that. Put a net on one entrance and the power head on the other, it should work in theory. Not good for the sick fish but it would remove a dead one in a hurry.



fishyfishyfishy said:


> Nice work!!!
> 
> Any reason you just didn't use black pond foam to begin with? Just curious....


Thanks. Yeah I have a reason for not using that foam, I didn't know about it. I only found out about it after I had already done the first structure. I didn't want to change halfway for fear of the textures being inconsistent. I'm not sure but I think it would have been cheaper for that instead of the Great Stuff, so I'll investigate it a bit more for my next tank.

Something that has become more and more obvious with this tank is how much room I'm taking up with these rocks. Even with them being hollow with caves and tunnels I'm displacing a lot of water. I'm going to have to be sure that the species I put in here doesn't require much open space for swimming, because there won't be a whole lot of it. I might end up doing a Demasoni species tank. Either that or I'll have to do a different/smaller version of the center rock.


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## partsrep

bentcountershaft said:


> I think I've come up with a solution to that, although probably not a very good one. I'm going to use an Aqua Clear 901 power head with some flex hose on the outlet to blow them out of the tunnels if it comes to that. Put a net on one entrance and the power head on the other, it should work in theory. Not good for the sick fish but it would remove a dead one in a hurry.


Nothing quite like powerwashing your fish out of a cave! :thumb:

Have you thought about doing that rock setup in a modular fashion? I see the concrete backgrounds that other forum members have made and they all are modular to get them in the tanks. You might be able to adapt that concept to your plan.


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## bentcountershaft

partsrep said:


> Nothing quite like powerwashing your fish out of a cave! :thumb:
> 
> Have you thought about doing that rock setup in a modular fashion? I see the concrete backgrounds that other forum members have made and they all are modular to get them in the tanks. You might be able to adapt that concept to your plan.


Yes and no. I'm not sure how I'd go about making one that would fit together nicely. Since it will be viewed from both sides I don't have a good way of hiding any overlaps and seams. I'm seriously considering doing another center rock that isn't as wide all the way to the top for some more free water space. I hate to do this as I really like the look of it, but it is really massive in there as it is. I've done my best at trying to show it using microsoft paint 

This is the side view:



And a view from above:



As can be seen, not a lot of free space. If I redo it to something like this:



it may work a little better. On the downside, If I have to redesign the center piece it will change a lot of my plumbing plans as well as additional filtration plans, which I've grown quite fond of. I could redo the side piece so that it doesn't stick as far out but I'll lose my caves on the ends, which I think are nice territories. Right now I'm leaning towards sticking with the original plan and just limiting the number and species of fish I put in.


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## bentcountershaft

My wife had put a hold on me spending any money for the past few weeks, but that's been lifted somewhat in the past few days. This weekend I picked up 100 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank to use for a sump. You can check it out here if you aren't familiar with them

This week I hope to pick the lumber to build a stand for it as it will be going in the basement directly under the tank. Still trying to decide between using buckets or sterilite drawer containers to use for the wet/dry.

I know a 100 gallon sump on a 90 gallon tank is way over kill, but since it's going in the basement, there's no restrictions on space. I figure the bigger the sump, the more room I'll have in it to put stuff and the easier it will be to maintain.

I've also decided to keep the big center "rock" I made and make smaller sidegrounds that don't stick out so far. When I made the first one, I had planned on it hiding HOB filter intakes, heaters and the like. Now all I have to hide is the overflow so I can save quite a bit of space.


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## TailorO

has anyone tried this kind of thing using black waterfall foam?


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## bentcountershaft

TailorO said:


> has anyone tried this kind of thing using black waterfall foam?


I'm sure they have and I would have tried that if I had known about it at the start of my project.

Well, I did attempt to get something accomplished on the sump's stand today. It's been raining here for almost a week straight so today was the first chance I had to put some lumber in the back of the truck and not worry about keeping it dry.  I failed however, to buy any hardware to secure the wood together with. I'm sure to have something out in the garage, right? So I made all my measurements, markings and cuts. Yes I know there's a lot of wood there, but I'm a big believer in over building. An aquarium stand I wouldn't build quite like this, but it only has to be supported on the corners. This will be sitting on what amounts to a very sturdy table, so I wanted it very strong. If it's worth doing, it's worth over doing I always say.



I found a half box of 2 1/2" Drywall screws. Those don't seem to be very good for going through 2x4's, or at least that's what I found. At first I thought my battery was weak, so I swapped it for a freshly charged one. No go. Being that I was a few beers into my project by this point, I decided it best to not go back to the hardware store. So instead I took a picture of my sump tank, sitting on a bench, feeling lonely and neglected as it has no stand like I promised.



She looks sad, doesn't she? Anyway, for any carpenters or accomplished diy guys out there, what sort of screws do I need? I don't want to use nails and I would rather not pre-drill a bunch of holes to use nuts and bolts. Any suggestions?


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## iceblue

I am a carpenter and will tell you this and you can go from there. Generally speaking, nails, srews or any other wood attaching mechanism are there to hold things in place. Not support them. Use gravity as a guide and stack the wood to suppot itself and whatever you place on it. This is an oversimplification but it will get you going in the right direction. Whatever you use to attach your project together make sure they are rust resistant. The stand I built for my 84g long is nailed together with hot dip galvinized 16p nails and is still as stable as when I built it 5 years ago. :thumb: If you want to use screws, use deck screws. Thier a little more in cost but will last a lot longer then drywall screws.


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## ArcticCatRider

I second Iceblue, use deck screws, and *everything* rust resistant, but never depend on solely just screws to support the load, "stack" the wood, and build to where all the wood supports the other pieces, use notches and everything else.You can always look in the DIY at other projects to get ideas. Good luck though.
:thumb:


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## bentcountershaft

Thanks for the tips, and no worries on using screws for support. That's why I have so much wood, all of the weight will be fully supported by it and the screws will just hold things together. I'll try to make a diagram showing my basic design. I downloaded google sketchup today, so I'll see if I can figure it out.

Well, it isn't to scale as all of the boards are 2x4's, but you can get the idea from this. Total size will be 48"x32"x30"tall. This rendering actually shows less than half the stand, as there will be four supports running front to back, spaced 12" apart. Then the 2x4's on the top and bottom of each end to keep the legs spaced and stable. I have my eye on a decent piece of 19/32" plywood that's been sitting behind a bunch of junk in the barn at work, so I'll most likely be nabbing that tomorrow. I guess I'll pick up some decent outdoor paint to help seal it.


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## bentcountershaft

I made some progress on the sump stand today. I picked up some stainless exterior screws at HD that seem to do the trick pretty well.

The legs:



The top (or bottom) piece:



This shows the bottom with the legs just resting on it. I have to keep it disassembled as it won't fit down the stairs afterwards.



This is with the top frame resting on top of the legs. I couldn't balance it out with all eight legs due to the uneven surface of my driveway:



Hopefully tomorrow I'll have the place in the basement cleared out so I can get it down there and screw it together. I still have to cut the plywood sheet for the top as well. Before I take it inside I'll either paint it or put a water sealer on it. Not sure which way I'll go on that, guess I'll decide in the morning.


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## bentcountershaft

Rain delay for the painting of the pieces, so I decided to work on the plumbing for the continuous water changing system that will work in the sump. The sump tank has a drain in the bottom of one side. Here's a quick pic:


It came with a threaded plug. My best estimation was that it was 1.25" size, so I bought a few pieces to thread into it. It isn't 1.25" :x

The black piece in this pic is the threaded plug that came with the tank. The white piece is a 1.25" male adapter. Although not the best detailed pic, you can see that the black piece is ever so slightly smaller than the white piece. This has ruined my day.



Apparently rubbermaid has taken it upon themselves to make this whatever size they wanted, and not make it a standard size. Unless I'm wrong (which would be really great news) this severely dampens my enthusiasm for choosing this for my sump. I had planned to install a couple of elbows and a simple standpipe inside the tank that would allow 10-15 gallons of water to trickle out, which would be replaced by new, fresh water dripping into the sump. I saw the sump that fmueller had built and liked it, but was concerned with the overflow on the sump leaking. He drilled a hole in the side of a plastic container and installed a bulkhead. This tank basically already had a bulkhead installed, so I felt better about using it.

Unless someone can tell me of a source to get the right size fittings, I'll have to drill the tank and install my own bulkhead. I could buy an accessory that rubbermaid makes for the tank, which is basically a float valve. From what I can tell, the water level controlled by the float valve doesn't look to be adjustable and the float valve mechanism itself looks like a pretty cheesy bit of engineering.

If anyone has any opinions or suggestions I'd love to hear them.


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## partsrep

Nice project. Keep up the posts!


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## bentcountershaft

I have a question for anyone that can help. What size tubing should I use to get water to and from the sump? I have a 1" bulkhead drilled on one of the ends of the tank. I was planning on just using 1" I.D. vinyl tubing down to the basement into the wet/dry. Then for the return, my pump has a 1" outlet so I was going to do the same size back up. I'm looking at 9-10 feet of head on this run. I thought this would be fine, but I saw something in another thread to make me doubt myself. Hope for replies soon, going to pick up supplies in the morning.


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## iceblue

For your line from sump to tank a larger diameter pipe will help cut down on some of the head preasure created by the sidewalls of the run. If you up the diameter you will probably get some extra gph. Try running your numbers through this calculator with different diameters and see what you come up with. http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php It might be worth the extra couple of dollars for reducers and the larger pipe.

For your return (from tank to sump) I would recommend a minimum 1 1/4" useing a skimmer box if you can fit it in.


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## bentcountershaft

Thanks, that's a handy little tool. According to that I can gain a hair over 10% by bumping up to 1.25". After that the flow rate gains are far less impressive (less than 2% for 1.5" over 1.25") but it's certainly worth a few extra pieces for 10%! Thanks for the quick response!


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## bentcountershaft

Well, I've changed my mind again 

I've decided to ditch the rocks I had built because of their utter hugeness and have been working on something smaller. The new and improved rocks won't have quite as many caves but will definitely look more appropriate and function better. I've also decided to do the new ones with black waterfall foam instead of the great stuff. I just feel this will hold up better over time. I've also incorporated some weight to fight buoyancy by using bricks in the bases of the rocks. Here's a few pics:

This is the framing for the sideground that will cover the end with the bulkhead. The top part forms a little basket that will enclose the bulkhead and it's plumbing as well as a power head that will power the two jets down at the bottom. The bottom of the basket's egg crate will function as a gated ceiling to the cave below it.



This is a shot of the opposite end which will only be concealing a power head for the two jets below. It also utilizes the basket bottom/cave ceiling flow method.



This shot is the humble beginning of the center rock. The odd shape is designed to allow me access to the inside of the box on the bottom. The box will house two power heads with prefilters. I'll be cutting several holes in the sides of the box to allow a lot of water movement to be blown in from the low jets from the side pieces. Tomorrow I'll finish this framing this piece up and apply foam to all three. Don't worry, I'll be adding several small pvc caves to the pieces before foaming.



I also finally got around to putting some paint on the sump stand today, but for some reason failed to take any pics. You can see one of the pieces in the top photo. I should have the stand assembled with the sump tank installed by Wednesday if not by tomorrow. I got some flexible pvc to connect the sump and display tanks so that will be my project for tomorrow, after I get the rocks foamed. Should be able to paint the rocks by Wednesday night. If everything goes right I'll also be building the wet/dry Wednesday too. I think I have everything I need to complete this tank with the exception of a bunch of pot scrubbers and substrate, which I hope to locate this week. I should be able to have the tank in the wall by Sunday. I'm on vacation this week and I already got my domestic duties finished so the rest of the week should be uninterrupted tank time. I am so ready to get this tank done. :dancing:


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## bentcountershaft

Taking a lunch break so I thought I'd upload some more pics.

This shows the framed rocks and how they will actually sit in the tank. This side is what it will look like from the dining room side:


Dining room side view of the side piece that will house the bulkhead:


A view from the living room side:


Another living room side view:


The base of the center rock showing the openings for water flow to the powerheads:


I'm off to start foaming now. Stand by for updated pics later today.


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## kingpoiuy

opcorn: Love watching this project! Anxious for the rest :thumb:


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## iceblue

:lol: This is turning out like my 350g plywood tank project. At first it was going to be just a big box with water in it. But, as I was going along it kept changing. :roll: Now I needed a large plywood sump and then a diy bio-chamber, seperate mechanical filters and overflow boxes. Why stop there? Build a hood with a hydroponics trough and moonlighting along with security lighting. What's next? Oh yea, a diy concrete background and a ugj system. 8) Not only did I build the stand for it I later tore it apart and built another one to handle the new ideas. :wink: I've had almost as much fun constructing this tank as I have watching and taking care of the fish in my other tanks.

Keep up the good work. I like the fact your not happy with first attempts and are willing to change to get what you want. This thing is going to be &itchin when your finally done. :thumb:


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## IrkedCitizen

Are those type of paver bricks aquarium safe?


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## bentcountershaft

IrkedCitizen said:


> Are those type of paver bricks aquarium safe?


I can't say that all of them are, but the ones I have seem to be safe. I have a big pile of old bricks beside the garage and I've used them in hospital/acclimation tanks and even as bases for real rock formations for the last five years or so with no ill effects. I have no idea what type these are as they were here when I bought the house. I'd guess they're at least 50 years old though.

iceblue, I really know what you mean about things changing. The funny thing is, I spent six months planning and researching what I was going to do before I did anything. When I started I had at least 95% of my plan complete, because I was "absolutely sure" that's what I was going to do. Well, then you run into a little snag here, get a little worried about something there, realize something else won't work the way you thought it would and pretty soon you've changed everything. It's been a long and educational experience even though I've been doing tanks for years. More than a few times I was ready to just go out and buy the tackiest multi-colored gravel I could find, the cheesiest shipwreck decoration I could find a put a beta in there and call it good. :lol: The most important thing I've learned is that I'll never do another dual view tank again, unless i have closet access at both ends and a lot of time on my hands. Anyway, on to the pics:

This is the first end piece I made. As you can see the backing bent a little under the weight of the foam. I wanted to correct this problem this time around:


What I came up with was that unless I wanted to heavily reinforce the back, which would take up more room, I should put the two side pieces together, back to back. A couple of zip ties and it should work. It wasn't perfect, but it did help considerably. To separate all I have to do is cut the foam that is now joining them with a regular hand saw.


The waterfall foam is already grey/black which will make it a bit of a pain to paint as I'll have a hard time seeing what I have already done. However, the can recommends paint if it will be in direct sunlight. I figure better safe than sorry, so I'll paint them in the morning. This will cover up all the bits of white you can see on the pvc and also the internal gridwork. This is the center rock:


This one shows the center rock and the non-bulkhead end piece:


This is the bulkhead end piece:


Well, now it's time for dinner and after that I'll start running the lines for the sump. Putting off building the stand until that's done as it will just be in the way. I'll post pics if they're interesting, but pvc isn't all that interesting.


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## iceblue

bentcountershaft said:


> When I started I had at least 95% of my plan complete, because I was "absolutely sure" that's what I was going to do.


Therein lies the conundrum. Something different happens when when your brain "and hands" start working on a project the brain thought it had figured out. New avenues seem to present themselves and suddenly everything changes. For me the hardest part was to say "O.K. enough is enough." All I have left to do is buy/install the glass and decide which of the 3 different ways I could do it..........

Hmmmm.......shipwreck.......... :lol:


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## bentcountershaft

Well the sump's stand is done :dancing: I'm pretty sure I could park my truck on it if it would fit. I have the flex-pvc ran for the drain and return lines so I'm going to start on my wet/dry in a few minutes. I still don't have any pot scrubbers and haven't had any luck locating any. I've tried all the dollar stores and walmart type stores with no luck. I may end up getting bio-balls just to be done with it. I do have some quilt batting so I'm good to go in that dept.

I put the frame of the sterilite in to check for clearance. I had already planned on removing the bottom shelf but wanted to see it in front of me before I did it. It's a bit too tall as suspected.


Another angle showing my shuttle launch pad/sump stand. Please excuse the mess. My wife would not be happy that I'm making our messy basement's appearance public.


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## bentcountershaft

Getting closer and closer. I'm on schedule to have the tank in the wall this weekend. I painted the rocks, but failed to take any pics for some reason. I'll snap some in the morning when I put them in the tank. I barely started on the wet/dry last night and called it quits, so I finished that up today. All the plumbing on the sump side is ran. I would have gotten more done today if Ihadn't made six thousand trips to Home Depot 

This is the first drawer of the wet/dry. I didn't take a picture of it before I put it in and due to the fitting coming through the top of cabinet it makes it difficult to pull all the way out again. Basically, I sliced off about 2" of 6" PVC and laid it directly under where the water pours in. I then drilled as many holes within the circle as I possibly could. Under the PVC is one layer of quilt batting. My theory is that this first drawer will have very little bypass and will collect the majority of the solids. Incase the filter clogs and overflows the PVC I drilled several large holes for the water to drain through:


The second drawer is the exact opposite. There are no holes directly underneath where the water will be falling in at. I drilled as many holes as I could in the drawer and still stay outside of that 6" circle. This drawer gets four layers of quilt batting.


The third and fourth drawers are identical, with large holes drilled in the bottom and both filled with bio-balls. The fourth drawer will be about 25% submerged. The fifth and final drawer is empty and is full of holes on the sides and back.



This one shows the pump a little better. I'll be putting a pipe for the pump's inlet as soon as I determine the exact water level I want.


This just shows the flexible PVC going from the sump to the tank upstairs. By the way, flexible PVC is the best thing since sliced bread. I found a place online that sells it by any length you want for a price that's comparable to vinyl tubing. They also have every PVC fitting known to man. This is the fittings page, for the flexible PVC just click on the "MISC" on the green bar at the top of the page. They ship out of California so it took a week to get here, but shipping for 30' 1.25" PVC, 10' of .75" and a couple dozen fittings was only $8. Oh, and yes that is a brick propping up the PVC on top of the cabinet. 


This is just the ends of the PVC on the tank side. I felt compelled to show I did something that was actually in the area the tank will be. It seems like I've been working either in the basement or outside all week, so it was nice to do something in the tank area for a change.


I think that will do me in for the day. I may start on my lighting bracket and putting my powerstrips in place above the display tank, but I might get distracted by the TV too.


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## kingpoiuy

What kind of pump are you using? Or did I miss that in an earlier post? I might be needing one soon


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## bentcountershaft

I'm using a Quiet One 4000 High Head pump. The High Head version pumps are capable of maintaining higher GPH ratings at increased head distance as opposed to the standard Quiet One pumps. I'm really pushing this pump to it's limits though, so if you're considering a basement sump for an upstairs tank you might want to go bigger. I had the pump before I had the idea of putting the sump in the basement, so I did what I could to use it (one of the deciding factors in putting the sump on a stand actually). If I were to have my choice, or perhaps when it's time to replace it I'll probably get something else. For anything less than six or seven feet though, it seems like a great choice. It is pretty quiet (submerged in the tub at least) although I don't know if it runs hot enough to have an effect on water temp.

Today's list of things to do:
Clean up display tank and paint the ends. The sidegrounds have a small gap on each side that will show the glass. I did this so that my mag float won't be restricted and was one of the major factors in not using the original rocks.
Build light bracket. This should be fairly straight forward as I already have a plan that I know will work. However that usually means I'll have some brilliant idea in the middle of it that will require me to go back to Home Depot.
Install power strips above display tank. I want to get this done before I put the tank in the wall to avoid getting drywall/saw dust in the tank.
If I can get all of that done by 3:30 and the paint is dry I should be able to get my nephew over to help me put the tank in the wall! If that happens there will be a victory dance.


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## bentcountershaft

No Victory Dance today. It rained all day so no way to get the sides painted. I decided to take it easy and just mess with the lights.

My custom light fixture consists of a piece of egg crate, four clamp on work lights (with clamps removed) 3 Powerbrite Actinic LED's and 2 Powerbrite Blue Moonlights supported by 2 shower curtain rods.








Will try tomorrow to get the tank painted. If that works out early enough the tank will be installed tomorrow afternoon/evening.


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## bentcountershaft

Well, the tank sides are painted. Everything is set to put the tank in the wall and I don't have anyone to help me lift it to put it in. It will probably be Monday before I have access to someone with a strong enough back. I'm rather disappointed.

I did finish up as much of the above-tank plumbing as I could without actually having the tank in so I took a few pics just to make myself feel like I did something worth photographing. The good news is that the lighting makes one **** of a workspace light


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## bentcountershaft

Well, the tank still isn't in the wall yet, but may be tomorrow if I can make my mind up about something. I started another thread with a poll to help me decide which way to go on something. I didn't want to make this build thread a poll, so I decided to make it separate. Any opinions about the rock configuration should probably be posted there for simplicity's sake. Anything else of course should go here as always. Thanks, here's the link: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1177435#1177435


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## bentcountershaft

Well, I wrenched my back a bit so I've been in a holding pattern for a bit. Today, I got the tank in the wall, finally. I have some small plumbing stuff to line out with the return line spray bar and the pump for the center rock needs to be plumbed over to the outside rocks, and I'll be ready for sand and water. After that, a few loose ends in the sump and I have to stain/paint the trim work for the display tank and I'm done. Here's a pic of an air filled aquarium that has missed it's home.


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## riffraffxl

That looks pretty darn cool.


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## IrkedCitizen

Personally I think that center foam rock takes up too much space. I prefer more space for my fish versus it looking nice. :fish:


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## iceblue

Any updates?


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## All Out Tony

Whats next? opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: :fish:


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## bentcountershaft

Sorry for the lack of updates. My sore back has prevented me from getting much done for the last several weeks, but I hope to remedy that later this week if time allows. Thanks for checking up on me though


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## faile486

Sore backs are the worst = ( Every male in my family (and most in my husband's) have bad backs.

I had a question about your rocks...which did you end up liking more, the Great Stuff or Pond Foam? How much did you use per rock? Do you think it would be possible to get a smoother appearance? Would a hair dryer work instead of a heat gun?

Right now I'm in the planning stages of setting up a 125g and your DIY 'rock' caves are some of the best I've seen!


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## bentcountershaft

faile486 said:


> Sore backs are the worst = ( Every male in my family (and most in my husband's) have bad backs.
> 
> I had a question about your rocks...which did you end up liking more, the Great Stuff or Pond Foam? How much did you use per rock? Do you think it would be possible to get a smoother appearance? Would a hair dryer work instead of a heat gun?
> 
> Right now I'm in the planning stages of setting up a 125g and your DIY 'rock' caves are some of the best I've seen!


For the rocks I liked the pond foam better, but it is more expensive. For the three rock structures I used 12 cans at $12 a pop. Of course my situation is different than most since the tank is viewable from both sides and I did a lot of foaming inside of the structures too because of the swim thrus I created. I didn't use the heat gun for the pond foam as it's designed to be wet and to be painted, so my fears with the pond foam were addressed by those facts. I read somewhere in a thread last night about a really good idea for shaping this stuff while it's setting up. It was recommended to use acetone with q-tips instead of cutting with a knife or razor. The knife will leave a completely different texture than what was there previously, it looks like a course sponge. The acetone (which is recommended for cleanup) supposedly gives a smoother finish, but I don't know how practical that would be to do over the entire surface area. I guess it depends on the size of your project. I'll try to find the thread and post a link here if I do.

Edit: Scratch the q-tip it was a paint brush, so that helps! Also the thread is here, in one of mcdaphnia's posts.


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## faile486

Thanks so much!


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