# Gravel Vac, Powered



## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Quite awhile ago, I had tried a small kiddie pool filter for my tank. My thinking was
1. Cheap, got it for next to nothing
2. Replacement filter cartridges were cheap and readily available, plus they could be modified to use polyfill
3. Pump and filter were a single unit, compact, would fit in my stand
Man, was that thing noisy..would not be noticed outside, next to a pool full of kids..but in the livingroom, well that`s another story. Gave up on it. Gave it to my daughter for her little pool.
Now, with that backround out of the way.
Running my gravel vacs has always been a big PIA..always having to watch water levels while trying to get the gunk out. Had to be a better way..TAAADA!!..a moment of clarity.
Combine an old CA1800 pump, one water filter housing, a few fittings, valves, and hose..we now have what the pros use.
I can now gravel vac all day, if I wanted(no, I don`t want)and the water level in the tank never changes. I can open or close a couple of valves, add some hose out the door and power my water change..swap hose positions and pump my new water into the tank.
Just wish I would have thought of it before giving that pool filter away, it would have been perfect.
If there is any interest in this, I`ll borrow my sons camera for some pics.


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## Jakemonaghan90 (Nov 30, 2008)

Yes please!

I always knew there had to be a better way, and I suspected that a pool filter/pump would work well. I figured since mine had the back flush setting, that would be great for water changes.

I had envisioned a second tank next to the sump (it would have to be in a fish room, not under a stand) that only held water. The tank overflowed into there, and from the holding tank into the sump. Then ,for a water change, move that holding tank outside, put a second tank (or plastic tub, etc,) with aged water in place of the first, and start it back up. With the first tank, water the garden, and replace with water and let it age. This would keep your water params. more stable to.

But i really like your gravel vac idea. Maybe I could combine the two somehow...

thanks


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## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

I'd love to see pics and hear how you like it. I'd thought of this idea before, but I've used a water filter to polish my water before, and it clogged way too quickly. I kind of assumed using it to gravel vac would just be constant switching out water filters...


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Will have to wait for any pics..Son is using his camera, the nerve  
After a few trial runs..
The small pool filter would have been ideal..I simplified the plumbing to just inputs and outputs, with shutoffs so I could disconnect the filter and pump water outside for water changes without going thru the filter..same for putting water back into the tank.(Thanks for the Idea Jake)
It was really easier than I thought to suction water into a "dry" start by sucking on the output hose end. Configured a 3/4pvc return hanger thingy so I could concentrate on the suction end.
Used it for about an hour without any perceptable loss of flow.
So far, looks like a winner...Will get some pics when I can.


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## oscars4me (Feb 22, 2009)

Would love to see pics of the setup sounds like a winner.


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## scottiefish (Jun 28, 2006)

i too would like to see this invention :thumb:


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Ok, got the camera from the boy..thank you JD
For the fittings, I found these








They are a combonation of stuff from various places. The pvc pipe to hose came from lowes, in the drip watering section. Lots of cool stuff there..hose barbs, fittings, etc. The hose shutoffs and "Y" with shutoffs, 45 extension came from I don`t remember. The pump is a CA1800 from catalina aquarium, which I used in my sump.








Filter from lowes. All hooked up ready to go.








Used my garage stool for a platform. Quick release clamp keeps it in place.
..Priming the thing was a snap, just suck on the output hose untill the clear tubing fills enough for the pump to catch..at first I had it pushing water thru the filter and tried to use it as a conventual gravel vac..within seconds grit stopped the impeller..bummer..finally freed up the pump and put the pump on the filter out put, to pull the water thru the filter..duh..After working with this for awhile, it dawned on me..the poo is not deep in the gravel..I used the pumps return to fan the gravel towards the pickup pipe and it worked great..biggest problem was keeping the curious gillies away from the action.
Using the hose fittings allows me to quickly take the thing apart..I also use the pump for water changes. I hook it up to some pvc, cut to the lenth(depth in tank)to equal the amount of water I want to remove(yes, I could just siphion) and to a hose going to the plants, outside. Couple quick connections later, I am pumping fresh, treated water back into the tank from a storage vessel.
Sorry for the poor quality pictures, coffee+old age=poor pictures.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Update on the update..after a quick trip thru some water polishing questions, went out and found my old sumps pick up tube, added a fitting..right now the system is polishing my gillies aqua..
So far..I like it..the gillies seem to like it as well.


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## scottiefish (Jun 28, 2006)

thats cool. i like it! :thumb:


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Whoops..is that me blowing my own horn.  
The more I use this, the more I like it. Got the sweeping action. from the return line, along with the moving of the pick up pipe down..the gillies seem to get off on getting in the returns flow..the corrys have got with the action as well, whatever food getting blown loose is gobbled up and the pooh gets sucked up..tank hasn`t been/stayed this clean since it`s setup.
After vacing, I hook up the lift tube and run it for about 1/2 to an hour..the water looks great. 
Have yet to bump up against a down side to this, I`m sure there is something lurking, cuse it seems to good to be true.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

i think this is a great idea but i found this on ebay yesterday, seems a lot simpler...
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380098937916&_trkparms=tab=Watching


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

padlock 08 said:


> i think this is a great idea but i found this on ebay yesterday, seems a lot simpler...
> http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380098937916&_trkparms=tab=Watching


Two problems with that
1.Underpowered..not enough suck for the buck
2.The same problem ALL gravel vacs have..you can not get that tube to all the places you need to clean.
By using the return flow from the pump, I can sweep the entire tank free from debris.
The only place I can`t get to is under my base rocks


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## kjhydock (Apr 28, 2009)

So from what I'm gathering, you have the gravel vac constantly running with the return blowing the junk around in such a way that it's all going to the pick up end? Could we see pics of this if I got it right? Sounds really nice for a gravel system if so, too bad it'd create a sandstorm for me.


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## R-DUB (Jun 3, 2007)

Genius pure Genius! I like it. Gives me an idea too. I have a real pos old pool filter and some fittings. I will probably copy this idea tommorrow. :thumb:


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> sandstorm for me


Not really..you don`t have to get the return hose close to your sand bed..the debris is really light, seems the slightest of currants will get it moving..once the debris is in suspension, you suck it up. Got to admit, it took some practice..how close to move the return flow to my base material(small gravel/sand combo)while moving the suction tube at the same time.
You can get some idea of how easy getting the waste material moving, just by "fanning" any long handled tool(wooden spoon, spatuala,etc.)across your media
For me, one of the best parts of this is being able to clean for as long as it takes, without having to watch my tanks water level.
After the cleaning, using the garden hose connectors, makes disassembly a snap.
I`ve been looking at a few things to use as a cleaning/water change cart..everything needed on a wheeled carry-all..still looking 
Even if you had to buy all the components new, the cost would work out to $65-$75) which is a bit more than those wonky python systems, but you will end up with a system that will clean your entire tank, all the nooks and crannies of your rock pile, the dead zones, all the places your old gravel vacs tube won`t fit.


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

KaiserSousay said:


> Update on the update..after a quick trip thru some water polishing questions, went out and found my old sumps pick up tube, added a fitting..right now the system is polishing my gillies aqua..
> So far..I like it..the gillies seem to like it as well.


That whole setup really does look good and has got me very interested :wink: Now do you have a picture of the 'polishing' setup with the old sump pickup tube?


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> picture of the 'polishing' setup


Sorry mate, the boy took his camera back..All it is
2-3/4"pvc elbows, for going over the tank rim
2-3/4" pipe, 12" long..1- has many holes drilled for pulling in the tanks debris and the end is capped..the other is outside the tank with a 3/4"slip to female garden hose fitting.
I connect a 24" piece of scrap 5/8"I.D. hose to the pipe and filter. Give the return hose a little suck, can kinda feel the return hose fill with water..plug in the pump..stuff the return hose behind a rock and let it run..nothing really special, except for the cleaning it gives me
Gotta tell ya, for weekly tank cleanings this rig is it..just sweeping the return flow around the tank dislodges all the poop and debris from all those places I would have had to remove my rocks to get at. It is actually taking less time now then it did at first, guess there was more crud lurking than I thought from the old gravel vac.
Sorry to ramble on..but, man..this is one cool tool.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

now that you say it your right, i might just set up this type of thing for my breeding set up in the summer with a spare fountain pump for the garden :thumb: =D>


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> spare fountain pump for the garden


If do-able, your pump needs to be able to work as a dry(not submersible only)pump.
But, even if you need to get a new pump...
http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_28&products_id=1075
I am sure you would be able to find one on that side of the "pond"that wouldn`t cause the inital costs of the build to go much beyond $60-$75 U.S.
Long term..this is a system that has way to many benifits not to use, even if you had to "sock" away a few Euros a month in order to put it together.
Your fish will love you for it


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

i suppose, my pump is a dry pump anyhow and im a bit strapped for cash but if i do need to invest in new pump i will, il try this first though


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> Now do you have a picture of the 'polishing' setup with the old sump pickup tube?


I do now


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok cool.

With the new pictures, I believe I can see how well this item works. So you use the outlet to flush the crud towards the inlet, where the crud then get caught in the white cannister.

Couple of questions
What media do you use in the filter cannister?

Also, how does using the old sump intake help with polishing the tank and is it necessary?

Thanks


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

http://products.geappliances.com/ApplProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=SPECPAGE&SKU=GXWH04F&SITEID=DER
After the first 3 cleanings, I used the sumps pick up, let it run for 1/2 to an hour..the last couple of times I have seen no need.








The above, long white pipe with the clear tubing, is the vac. The green hose,top right, is the return line..coming out of the pumps top.


> So you use the outlet to flush the crud towards the inlet, where the crud then get caught in the white cannister.


Exactly..I "sweep" all areas of the tank with the return hose and pick up the debris with the white pipe, moving it as the material is dislodged, to suck it into the filter.
The filter housing contains a cartridge style filter. Pleated, porous material that is wrapped around a holed, pvc core. Filter material traps the debris, allowing only clean water back to the tank.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

KaiserSousay said:


> > Now do you have a picture of the 'polishing' setup with the old sump pickup tube?
> 
> 
> I do now


so let me get this absolutly clear for the last time, water goes out the long green tube on the right and in the other one to the filter?


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> water goes out the long green tube on the right and in the other one to the filter


That`s it :thumb:


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## planenut007 (Mar 21, 2009)

Mine works great too, but had to make a pick up tube (pvc with cap and holes drilled.
Let it run with open tube one day...it got real loud, hmmmm???
Noticed two less fish in tank and two more in filter...those guys are a little too courious sometimes.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> two less fish in tank and two more in filter


One of my corrys went for a short tube ride while I was vacing :lol: I pinched the hose, shut off the pump and out it dropped..went right back to snuffleing the gravel bed :lol:


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the 'polishing' pictures. I'll have to start saving up to buy the parts - namely the filter and possibly the pump. :fish:


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## planenut007 (Mar 21, 2009)

Filter @ home depot...$20
Hose & such laying around
Pump...old power head, or new pump
Happy healthy fish & H2O....priceless


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

I thought the pump/powerhead *had *to be an external one? :-?


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## JALOOS (Sep 6, 2008)

D-007 said:


> I thought the pump/powerhead *had *to be an external one? :-?


No I have the same setup so to speak running 24/7 and I use an internal pump plumbed into the hoses feeding the filter.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Ok, if you are using this as a water polishing/mech, filter, then whatever kind of pump capable of moving water thru the filter will work.
If you plan on using this as a combo(vac work & occasional polishing)then a pump capable of being run externally is needed.
The ca1800 I got for my sump works either way, much like a number of other pumps.
I put this together so I could clean around all the nooks/crannies, putting a pile of rocks in your tank creates. I got fed up trying to get a regular vac tube into all the places the poop goes to hide. Sure, you could use an algea scraper to sweep around, dislodge the nasties, but then you still need to keep an eye on your water level.
With this I can keep going, untill I can`t get any more grunge to break loose, even if it takes an hour..when done, then I can do a water change.


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

KaiserSousay said:


> Ok, if you are using this as a water polishing/mech, filter, then whatever kind of pump capable of moving water thru the filter will work.
> If you plan on using this as a combo(vac work & occasional polishing)then a pump capable of being run externally is needed.
> The ca1800 I got for my sump works either way, much like a number of other pumps.
> I put this together so I could clean around all the nooks/crannies, putting a pile of rocks in your tank creates. I got fed up trying to get a regular vac tube into all the places the poop goes to hide. Sure, you could use an algea scraper to sweep around, dislodge the nasties, but then you still need to keep an eye on your water level.
> With this I can keep going, untill I can`t get any more grunge to break loose, even if it takes an hour..when done, then I can do a water change.


That's what I plan on using mine for also :thumb:


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Kaiser, is there a specific *gph *pump that I should be looking for?


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> specific gph pump


Have not tried any other pumps, just used what I had..would assume, any pump that moves water thru filter would work..Of course, the more gph, the faster the cleaning(up to a point, you don`t want to BLAST your sand/gravel, nor blow the gillies about).
The ca1800 does appx. [email protected]`of head, about 400gph. This works quite well for me..enough return flow to get the gunk out and enough suction to remove it.
Not trying to endorse this pump in any way, other than it works for me.
I have set these diy things up in my garage, using a bucket as a tank substitute, before dragging them into the house.
I changed the setup a little








Moved the pump off of the filter, would drip on occasion, plus didn`t think the weight of the pump hanging off of the fitting would be a good idea, long run..I tend to be a bit clumsy at times. Could just see myself giving it a good bang and snapping the fitting off. Added an on-off control so I could move the suction across the tanks center brace. Added a hanger for the plastic filter wrench..kept forgetting where I had put it last.








All in all, not having tried any other pumps, I would have to say any external pump, with a minimum of [email protected]`head would do just fine.


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## planenut007 (Mar 21, 2009)

Hey there Kaiser, could you snap a pic of you home made cartridge, I have been buying the 7 micron cartridges at $6 for two, wonder if I can get the same filtration self made?
Was thinking of a bunch of quilt batting, with nylon sock over it, or maybe a wrap of felt with quilt batting over that.
Remember that I use mine 24/7.
I switched the vacuuming duties to one of my FX5's, so this guy is now for polishing only.
The fx5 works great, and you can back flush it when finished.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> vacuuming duties to one of my FX5's


Congrats, and I be envyous  
Soon as I get the camera again. pics will follow.
Basics are:
Old cartridge. stripped to nothing but ends and tube
Fiberglass window screen wrapped around core tube
Quilt batting wrapped around core tube
Finish with another wrap of window screen with tie wraps to hold it all together.


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

KaiserSousay said:


> I would have to say any external pump, with a minimum of [email protected]`head would do just fine.


Sounds good - thanks for the advice :thumb:


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> 7 micron cartridges at $6 for two, wonder if I can get the same filtration self made?


You know, for the low cost of these things off the shelf, I have been wondering if I am doing the filter cartridge, just to avoid other things I really don`t want to do..lawnwork, household repairs/upkeep


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## planenut007 (Mar 21, 2009)

Hmmm??? me too, I made two cartridges on with two layers of white felt, wrapped over with a couple layers of quilt stuff, othr with screen, then quilt stuff, with a nylon stocking pulled over it, will le you know outcome. Was thinking the felt might be a good fine polisher.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

I am thinking with a flow control valve on the output of the pump, you could reduce the flow enough so that you could use a regular tube siphon (like a real gravel vac). The advantage there is that if you have a sand substrate a lot of crud piles up/decays in the sand itself, not just on top of the sand. For me, anyway, it will be nice to have continuous substrate cleaning ability, since in the course of a normal water change I never get to clean as much as I want (without changes more water than I want to). And also in a water change, the sucking ability of the siphon decreases as the water level gets lower.

However, I am planning on putting the pump and water filter fixture in my stand, so it would be on the ground instead of on a stool. I am wondering if I need a upsized pump with a head height of about 6ft? Although I would think 100gph at the head height I need would probably be good enough? Thoughts?


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

First thought is try it.  
When setting things up, make the pump easily accessible, if a change is needed. 
Or, make the whole thing on a mounting platform that could be pulled out as a unit. 
Nothing like real world trials to bring out any flaws. 
I do not have a sand bottom. Very small gravel. I had to play with return distances a bit so as not to blow it all over the tank. Could use a valve to reduce the output, but that would reduce the suction as well. 
It has been well worth any setup issues I have had. My weekly cleanings are no longer the frustrating chore they used to be, along with my tank being virtually free of gunk when finished.
Another thought. If you made a hanger for the return. Something to hold it in place, when not using the flow around rockwork or decor. Then you could stir the sand with your free hand, while moving the suction line about..


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

KaiserSousay said:


> First thought is try it.
> Could use a valve to reduce the output, but that would reduce the suction as well.


That's what I meant to say. With a reduced suction you would be able to clean sand and suck up any dissolved waste rather than suck just suck up sand - which is what I assume would happen if the pump was operating at full force.

I was actually thinking of hard plumbing it in to the tank. With some "sophisticated" valve work, I think I could make it such that I could use the pump to vacuum the gravel, or quickly drain water from the tank and fill it back up again for water changes. All with black PVC on the back of the tank and some hose connections at the front of the stand.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> hard plumbing it in to the tank. With some "sophisticated" valve work


When you get it done, would love to see some pics...


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## Rockydog (Oct 21, 2007)

Don't throw those cartridges away because they can be reused a hundred times or more. Just soak for a couple days in a bleach solution, rinse thoroughly and soak overnight in water with prime, rinse, put away for next time. If you have a couple sets, you will always have clean ones.
This is what I do with my Mag 350's that I use as maintenance filters.

I'm sure I saw you mentioned that if doing any vacuuming the pump has to be on the outlet side or it will get jammed up.

This is a great idea for polishing. The Mag 350's work good but are always hanging off the front of the tank. For my 180 I'm going to do a setup with 4 or 5 filters inline with course to fine media. It will be a permanent setup with valves to shut off and remove filter cover and replace media.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> pump has to be on the outlet side or it will get jammed up


I sure jammed mine, sucked enough grit so the pump just sat and hummed at me. :lol: 


> 4 or 5 filters inline with course to fine media. It will be a permanent setup with valves to shut off and remove filter cover and replace media.


A while back I was looking at making a canister, or segmented chamber, filter out of 4"pvc. The screw cap adapters and caps themselves were quite costly. I shelved the plan. I got some of those high dollar parts for free. If a guy was to use 1 or 2 whole house filters to act as the mechanical filtration you could pack an enormous amount of bio in the pvc tubes. With pre filtering, the bio tubes would probably not need cleaning but once or twice a year.
Thanks for the cartridge tip


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## JALOOS (Sep 6, 2008)

Rockydog said:


> Don't throw those cartridges away because they can be reused a hundred times or more. Just soak for a couple days in a bleach solution, rinse thoroughly and soak overnight in water with prime, rinse, put away for next time. If you have a couple sets, you will always have clean ones.


The whole house filter cartriges are different than the ones made for the H.O.T. 350. The ones for the 350 are a fine paper element and the whole house are a variety of different materials pressed together to make it porous. I can't see how soaking in bleach is going to remove the crud that is stuck in the pores of the filter that is most times an inch thick.

There is a point where being frugal and trying to save money isnt saving anything. Since these filters are relatively cheap from 2.50 to 4.00 unlike the ones for the magnum, in my opinion it is not worth the expense of the bleach and the prime let alone the time and effort to try to bring one back to life with no garantee that the filter is actually clean deep in the pores. Seems to me for the cost it is much easier, cheaper and more efficient to just put in new ones.


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## planenut007 (Mar 21, 2009)

This is the sweetest thread ever, I have been playing around with all kinds of stuff related to this and have come up with 101 ideas.
Tried the felt with batting wrapped a few times for a 2 stage type, worked very good.
Been running vacuum with fx 5 works good just have to back flush after vacuum.
As a polishing filter, hands down you can not beat $20 for this thing.(GE whole house)
Home Depot rules!


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

planenut007 said:


> This is the sweetest thread ever, I have been playing around with all kinds of stuff related to this and have come up with 101 ideas.
> Tried the felt with batting wrapped a few times for a 2 stage type, worked very good.
> Been running vacuum with fx 5 works good just have to back flush after vacuum.
> As a polishing filter, hands down you can not beat $20 for this thing.(GE whole house)
> Home Depot rules!


Starting with the right components this can be done by anyone, at any skill level..wait one..almost any skill level. 
Nice to come across someting that works and dosen`t drain your wallet.


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## planenut007 (Mar 21, 2009)

I too have been thinking of some sort of prefliter made from a piece of 4" pvc with caps, just waiting on them to pop up for free or cheap as the big stuff is a little spendy.
About 24" stuffed full of floss, with at least one screw on cap should do fine, again on the "almost any one can do it", it keeps me out of wifey's hair, and as long as it does not make a mess or cost more than a case of beer she is happy, when she is happy e-1 is happy.


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Kaiser, will the photo's near the beginning of the thread be coming back?

planenut007, do you have a photo of your DIY cartridge?


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