# Limestone use question...help please



## springcreek (Nov 27, 2004)

I have what is for sure long  and what might be a confusing :-? question. First question is how good a "buffer" is limestone? We live in central Oregon and have pretty neutral ph. approx. 7.0. I don't know what the kh or gh are so I apologize for that. What I plan on doing with a new 90 gal tank is instead of using limestone rocks as decoration I have cut "slices" of limestone that are about 3/4 to one inch thick. I plan on laying them on top of the egg crate over the entire surface of the bottom. I am then going to set rocks and fill with play sand from the Depot. I was wondering if the limestone under the sand will help buffer the water. I also want to know if having this solid layer will create any "toxic" areas under the slabs? There will be spaces between the "slabs" so I guess it would be a semi-solid layer of limestone on top of the egg crate. Sorry for the length of the question but I really don't wany to screw this up. Thanks!!!


----------



## k19smith (Sep 6, 2005)

I can't exactly answer your question but maybe of some help. I don't know how good of a buffer the limestone will be under the sand. If I were going to do it that way i would put a small layer of sand over the egg crate then the limestone then more sand. Seems like a lot of work to me as said before not sure how it will work under the sand. I would just add the limestone to a canister filter or something if you don't want it in the tank. I just add baking soda and salt to keep my ph steady.


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I also want to know if having this solid layer will create any "toxic" areas under the slabs?


That'd be my concern. I'd be surprised if you didn't end up with some anaerobic areas.

I'd change the approach completely. Place the rocks, add the sand, buffer with crushed coral or similar in a filter. Forget the egg crate and limestone. The egg crate isn't needed and the limestone will buffer little buried under sand and rock. The combination of the egg crate and limestone slabs will make it hard to keep the substrate clean. I don't see any upside, just downside to that arrangement.

Just my .02


----------



## parkayandbutter (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:
I also want to know if having this solid layer will create any "toxic" areas under the slabs?

Look>>>>>>>>>>>> HOG WASH PEOPLE<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Let me read one posting of someone's fish dying cause of this. Come ON people. Someone started this and to date I have not heard everyone moves the rocks in every single tank cause of this. I'd go so far as to go back to the 70's and back then when I started and heck even the 80's never move my rocks. Never saw any fish stores tell of this or move the rocks cause of this. I don't think anyone that has a tank full of rocks does this on a regular basis. Also, myself included didn't and still don't have fish dying cause I never moved my rocks.

To all that read this: Have you documented a case of this mysterious Gas building up so much it caused your fish to go belly up? Huh........ I reckon not......... Strange isn't it that this is talked about like some huge fear of an unhealthy aquarium that is sure to happen at some point and Poof all your fishes will die.

Lets just take this a step further. Public aquariums Huh....... I wonder if Atlanta Georgia aquarium moves the rocks that they have cause of this? I also wonder if the some how in every body of water the rocks mysteriously get flipped over on a regular basis. Well I would have to reck'n so since we have fish in the wild living. Oh I am sorry for just being oh so joyous of a mood.

Have a myth fearing day people


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Let me read one posting of someone's fish dying cause of this.


I know I'll regret this, but here you go. 

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=150541&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

No, exact cause of death wasn't determined, but elevated nitrite did happen after cleaning under rocks and many fish died. Maybe the key is to never clean under rocks. Just leave the 'you-know-what' where it is. Just kidding, of coarse. 

I agree that it's not common, but the point of the post was to discourage configuring things in such a way that has some inherent risk with little or nothing to gain.



> Strange isn't it that this is talked about like some huge fear of an unhealthy aquarium that is sure to happen at some point and Poof all your fishes will die.


I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.



> I also wonder if the some how in every body of water the rocks mysteriously get flipped over on a regular basis. Well I would have to reck'n so since we have fish in the wild living.


In a couple of Ad Koning's books, he talks about huge upwellings that occur from anaerobic areas deep within Lake Tanganyika that results in thousands of fish deaths.



> Oh I am sorry for just being oh so joyous of a mood.


No problem :thumb: Hope your day gets better.


----------



## Timkat4867 (Jan 11, 2008)

Prov, looks like your 2 cents is worth a lot more on this post.

Dont regret what you wrote, its good to have knowledgeable people like you on this site.


----------



## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*parkayandbutter*
It is rare for anaerobic pockets to actually harm fish, but it does happen. 
It's hard to argue with an experienced fish breeder that his fish isn't paralyzed when it clearly was and all that had changed was that the digger went a little too far under a rock it was excavating.

For 100 claimed cases of anaerobic pockets harming fish, I believe one or two only.

But... one or two makes it possible, and worth trying to avoid if there is no reason not to.

Hope that sheds some additional light along with Prov's great reply.


----------



## SupeDM (Jan 26, 2009)

Anerobic pockets can and will definately kill fish. However if you have aeration on the tank. It will only stink up your house. Rotten egg smell. Hydrodgen sulfide is a very toxic gas. Intentionally creating anerobic areas in a tank is best left for reef aquariums. This being said it would be very hard to get a large enough area in a home aquarium under normal rockwork. But if you completely close off the substrate it could be a major problem.


----------



## chc (Jul 28, 2004)

I have to disagree. All the evidence I've seen is that it is very unlikely that enough anaerobic decomposition to kill fish can occur in most tanks. There simply isn't a large enough and deep enough area of substrate for that to occur.

In the rare case it may have happened, those tanks were likely on the brink anyway. Also, in very large canister filters that haven't been serviced in a long while, channeling in the media creates dead zones much denser than most substrates, and not many people even think of that -- much less "stir" their canisters.


----------

