# Stocking a 55gal (already have Ps. Saulosi)



## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Alright i just had a post but kinda jacked it up... I want to keep fish from the same geo location (Lake Malawi) I have 5 Unsexed Saulosi, I want to get 5 of something and 5 of something else.

Here are some questions i have for you all:
What would be a good size (I imagine something close to the Saulosi size)?
What go well with saulosi?
What is the most colorful fish that fit the criteria?

Any ideas?


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## nauTik (Mar 18, 2009)

TheEdoubleDIE said:


> Alright i just had a post but kinda jacked it up... I want to keep fish from the same geo location (Lake Malawi) I have 5 Unsexed Saulosi, I want to get 5 of something and 5 of something else.
> 
> Here are some questions i have for you all:
> What would be a good size (I imagine something close to the Saulosi size)?
> ...


Yes, you are correct something close to Saulosi size is best.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_55g.php

That can help you stock your tank with other species that go well with saulosi, just look under the "
Smaller, Less Aggressive Mbuna Aquarium " section.

Almost all mbuna are very colorful actually, I think it best for you to check out the cookie cutter section and choose some listed under that area that you like best.

Also if you're choosing to keep 5 of each fish you're going to want 1 male and 4 females each. Also make sure not to pick any mbuna that look exactly like another species you already have.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Alright will i have problems with cross breeding?


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

The wife and I from the cookie cutter really like these two:
Ps. Saulosi
Metriaclima estherae (Red)

If we had to choose from the remaining of the cookie cutter we are hung up on these two:
Labidochromis sp. "Hongi" (SRT)
or
Cynotilapia afra (Cobue)

Is there other the the cookie cutter left out that would work?
If so or if not will i have cross breeding issues with these and if there are more which will work and not have any problems such as cross breeding?

Also forgot to mention I have 2 Sydontis Petricola Catfis (4") will that be a problem with other fish i may choose or throw anything off... they worked well with my saulosi in the 29gal.

Should i keep them? or should i get another bottom feeder or just take them out and leave it be?


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Pseudotropheus sp. "Williamsi North" 
Pseudotropheus sp. "Elongatus Ruarwe" 
Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Ngara)
Cynotilapia sp. "Mbamba" (Lion's Cove)

would any of these work?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would say size does not matter as long as you stay under 6 inches. The problem I always have with Saulosi is you have covered the two main colorful options already with that one species.

I look for contrast, and I have never seen a striking difference in the color of female saulosi versus yellow labs or red zebras.

I like the blue color best, and you can only stock one or three in your tank to keep the male female ratio working.

And you want to avoid other blue barred species like hongi, elongatus and afra.

Going for completely different colors, what about white (perlmutt or albino socolofi)? Or pale blue (blue socolofi or metriaclima callainos)?

Or if you want more darker blue, maingano is a good option because the stripes are horizontal. The saulosi won't see them as competitors.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Rusties are nice with Saulosi , as well. They are about the same size.


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## shaguars7 (Apr 12, 2009)

what about rusty's and cyno sp"hara.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

We have decided to go with 1M:4F of each:

Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt"
Metriaclima estherae (Red)

Added with the 2 sydontis petricola catfish and the 5 saulosi.

Will i have x-breeding issuse?
Will there be much aggression? 
Should I get more Petricola or should i get a different bottom feeder or none at all?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

3 more petricola. Note that the zebras (even the cherry reds) are orange and not red. Goldfish color.

You should be good with aggression and no crossbreeding. The zebras are likely to be the most aggressive fish in your tank.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

If you are not breeding, I would get 4-6 Syno Multies for Fry control. And there is Always a crossbreeding risk, but those three species should be low risk. Aggression, IMO has to do with the male/ female ratios, unless you get Auratus or Kenyi, or the like. Only keep 1m, 3-4 females of each species...

Should be a nice tank


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Good to see you've already upgraded *TheEdoubleDIE*. You and your fish will be much happier with the new 55g.

You don't need to remove the petricola, they will do fine. I would suggest getting 3 or 4 more though. This will make them feel more comfortable and result in more activity.

I'm not sure about cross breeding. Although I have heard that any two mbuna can cross breed, but I have also heard that only mbuna from the same family will cross breed. I'm sure someone on CF will have an answer for you.(I see there has already been an answer to this while I was posting :thumb: )

There will always be aggression in a mbuna tank. But if you are worried about aggression you can stock some of the less aggressive mbuna. I think rusties(_Iodotropheus sprengerae_), socolofi(_Pseudotropheus socolofi_) and acei(_Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei"_) are all good options.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Socolofi are aggressive, they gave my Demasoni a run for their money. Nice fish though.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Whats 2 other groupds would you all go with? I would like to see some fry make it as long as they are "pure breeds"

With my trying to see if i can raise fry will they have a solid chance of making it with just 2 catfish?

I would like colorful breeds but i dont want fish that come in with a bad chance of aggression to other species and a chance of cross breading.

What should i do about the catfish; more, none at all, or just with the 2?
What 2 breeds would fit my criteria?


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## lil_flame33 (Mar 20, 2010)

I like the rusties, mine is getting to be a pretty purple/reddish color...


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

I can't find fish.. I've been calling around and i can't get anything I'm trying to get: Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt" 
Metriaclima estherae (Red)

If anyone can help please do!!

As far as the catfish go i am trying to keep fry loose um or add more or just keep the same?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Because of your location you might need to see what's available (from online shippers that will ship to you) and choose that way.

Fry do not make it in a mbuna tank unless you remove the mother to a fry tank while she is holding. Use your old 29G. The parents and other adult mbuna will eat way more than the catfish.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

What abotu yellow labs and rusties?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You mean will they not eat fry? Or can they be combined in a tank? They will eat fry and they can be combined in a tank with Saulosi.


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## Smittythefish (Mar 7, 2010)

Hey there TheEdoubleDIE,
I live in Anchorage and recently stocked a 120 gallon mbuna tank. The only fish I got locally Were yellow labs. To get the fish I REALLY wanted I mail ordered from Daves rare fish out of san antonio. I ordered about 50 fish and shipping was about 100 bucks. But the fish are Awesome! And I got exactly whatever I wanted. There are some places in town here that have some stuff some times. But youd pay as much in gas to drive to anch. and back as youd pay to ship to fairbanks. I Guess it just depends on how bad you want what you want.

As far as the fish to go with your saulosi *** got acei yellow tails and I love em they get along great with everybody and they are breeding like crazy. I also have red zebras with A bright blue male and hes one of my favorite fish in the tank. and the females are a pretty reddish orange.

If you do decide to mail order then you can also order your synodontis and some bristlnose plecos as well. If youve got more questions or anything you can email me [email protected]


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Thanks DJ yea i was implying if they would work together and I just ordered some.

Smitty appriciate it ill definantly look into that yea its def slim pickins' up here.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

The rusties are about the size of my saulosi (1.5"-2") but the Yellow Labs are full size (3.5"-4"). Will that cause any problems?


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Here are photos of the tank... I have a black background comming, and 30 vallisneria plants.
The rusties are about the size of my saulosi (1.5"-2") but the Yellow Labs are full size (3.5"-4"). Will that cause any problems?
How is my rock work? will it provide enough cover and concealment for the amount of fish, species, and sizes of fish I have comming?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i'd get rid of the bubble and add another filter

and i personally wouldn't go with yellow labs and saulosi, too much yellow mbuna, perlmutts were a good option you chose earlier, any reason you backed out? or even the hara


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

cjacob316 said:


> perlmutts were a good option you chose earlier, any reason you backed out? or even the hara


Lack of availability in Alaska.

The size difference should not be a problem. I've heard they consume vallisneria in 24 hours, let us know how yours do. Although Fogelhund has had success with the giant valls.


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## Smittythefish (Mar 7, 2010)

Where did you get the rusties?!!?!


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## Smittythefish (Mar 7, 2010)

Tank looks cool. What kind of rocks are those, where did you find them?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

is shipping difficult? sometimes it's worth it to get what you want rather than just sticking to what's around


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Yea I was told they would go through the plants esspecially these ones so i ordered like 30 so hopefully i can get enough going it can take the tourcher. I figured the bubbles and the Valls would make for a killer backdrop with the movement I plan to get out of them... fingers crossed though (I dont imagine there are any but anything to give my valls a fighting chance?)

The rocks came from a drainage ditch in the back parking lot of Wally World lol... I bucket tested them after I left them soak for a couple hours in the tub to clean um' up. I put them in my 29gal (before i had my 55) and threw a tetra in there, he survied the week i tested them and the I got my saulosi. I think they look pretty sweet with great shapes and I love they dark/purple color and with the lighting that came with the tank looks sick. The fish are going to really stand out.

I am ultimatly happy with my choice of fish to mix in, hopefully my saulosi won't create to much of a fuss but I think the colors will be very good. The Loins cove yellow labs with the great lemon yellow, saulosi with the beautiful blue and black males and the yellow of the females is more of a gold fish color, and rusties enough said... those are out of this world.

Now I do have another question that Jacobs brought up... With another filter is it "worth" it and will it make that much of a difference to benefit the tank? (taking into occount that I have the bubbles and the Valls comming in?

"Smitty PM sent on rusties"


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Also how does the rock work look as far as hiding for the fish (15 cichlids and 2 catfish)? Any tips for improvment?


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## loffy74 (Sep 28, 2008)

the red zebra's will most likely hybridize with your Saulosi females. Mailny because of
size dominance the females will seek the most dominate fish. Plus in my expierence with saulosi
they like to breed with Red Zebra more then yellow labs do.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Not to sound ignorant Red Zebra= Rusty? And that blows if so.... guess theres nothing i can do about it? And the yellow labs can x-breed aswell??? so in the end i will have Redsaulabs swimming around?


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

My Red Zebras and Saulosi have never been a problem cross breeding. Despite the size, my Saulosi Male takes care of his females.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

alright how about the Labs, will they cross breed with the saulosi or the rusties? Also the point that jacob brought up with a second filter what do you all think (I have 30valls comming)


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## mattsmommaashley (Apr 8, 2010)

Metriaclima estherae are red zebras not rustys. And to answer your question, yes red zebras will cross breed with yellow labs. I'm not sure about labs and saulosi crossing, someone else with more experience will have to answer that.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Just to update what I plan to put in the tank:

Iodotropheus Sprengerae 5- 1.75"-2.25" (M?:F?)
Pseudotropheus Saulosi 5- 1.75"-2.25" (M?:F?)
Labidochromis Caeruleus (Lions Cove) 5- 3.5"-4.0" (M1:F4)
Synodontis Petricola Burundi 2- 3"


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Regarding the filter, what is the gallons per hour of your current filter? I like about 7X hourly turnover, but I've been OK with 4X...just requires more debris vacuuming. The plants will help with nitrates but filters do not so the two facts are not related.

Plants remove nitrates and water changes remove nitrates. But not filters.


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## loffy74 (Sep 28, 2008)

my yellow labs dont breed with Saulosi, but they look similiar from a distance.
all you see is yellow.

I have my saulosi by them selves now. to many issues when mixed.(especially if you are trying to breed)

but you could try :
Cyno. Lions cove 
Perlmutt
Cyno Hara
Rusty
and even Polit
acie (in a 75)
are all good mixed with Saulosi, which should not cross breed or have issues with aggression
generally speaking.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

I have an Aquaion 55 filter it filters 345GPH, 385GPH would be a 7x turn over.... I understand I'm in the clear but would 690GPH be worth the benenfit to price/time/ and relavance ratio be worth it? I dont mind spending the 60bucks if it will help the system enough... I guess what I'm getting at is what differences would there be from my 55filter too 2 55filters?


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

TheEdoubleDIE said:


> I have an Aquaion 55 filter it filters 345GPH, 385GPH would be a 7x turn over.... I understand I'm in the clear but would 690GPH be worth the benenfit to price/time/ and relavance ratio be worth it? I dont mind spending the 60bucks if it will help the system enough... I guess what I'm getting at is what differences would there be from my 55filter too 2 55filters?


I always have two filters on my tanks, in case one filter quits. It's never steered me wrong, plus then you can alternate cleaning them, and keep you bioload up to process ammonia/nitrites to nitrate.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

the big thing to me is having the water filtered on both ends of the tank, even if the second filter is smaller, just getting the water turning and moving on both ends is important


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

roger I may use the 29 gal filter i have... Spend alot of money on fish the past 2 weeks... maybe i can talk the wife into letting me spend the 60bucks.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

I just got my 5 Yellow Labs and 5 Rusties in yesterday they look great!


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Pics please!


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Pics will be up a little later in the week I'm waiting until i take out all the rocks and put the stones in there.. ill take pics of the fish with a bare tank.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

I have 15 more stones comming monday (there is 15 in there now)... let me know what you think and what i can do to improve i dont know what it is but i think its missing something.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Ill try to get some pictures of the fish here soon.. they were pretty spooked with all the moving around these past few days.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Updated videos comming soon cant figure out how to upload it to the site..

Another question I have is how do you determine the differances between male and female yellow labs?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

For videos you have to just post a link. You can't embed them in a post like you can with pictures.

Sorry, can't answer the yellow lab wuestion.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Here is a video of the tank and fish.... I'm curious on how many male and females yellow labs i have... if anyone can help with that please have a look.

http://s538.photobucket.com/albums/ff35 ... 0_0241.flv


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## bearded lab (Apr 28, 2010)

Your fish and tank look great!


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## loffy74 (Sep 28, 2008)

are those coral red Saulosi?

they look like too orange to be pure??


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Was told they were F1 Ps. Saulosi.


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## loffy74 (Sep 28, 2008)

i dont know, mine are wild and F1 and they are almost the same color as the Yellow labs with
a slight gold. yours look almost orange.
maybe its just the light settings.

Do you have any still pics of them?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I will have to wait until I get home to see the video. But my saulosi are also yellow. Not the bright, almost neon, yellow that yellow labs are, but still no where close to orange.

I also know that colors can be skewed when using a poor quality camera. When I took some pics of my tank with my iPhone, my grey/brown rocks came out looking like red clay, and none of the blues of my lemon Jake showed up at all.

I think you got your saulosi from the same supplier that I did, so I'm willing to bet it's just the camera. :thumb:


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

I got them from the one you recommended tokyo but there is no doubt about it they are almost a goldfish color... maybe a little bit more dull that a goldfish but it is definantly orange. pictures to follow.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)




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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Strange. Maybe you should ask the supplier about it. I don't know why there would be such a huge difference in color between the fish he sent me and the fish he sent you.

Maybe he sent the wrong fish. 

Either way, you have some very nice looking fish. :thumb:


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Pictures of the tank:
Frontal:








Left Side:








From Left to Right:








From Right to Left:


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Nice looking tank. It's come along way from your original 29g. :thumb:

Your layout makes it look very spacious.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

appriciate it just keeping my fingers crossed on those valls hopefully the fish dont eat them up beyond repair.... any ideas on good looking plants foor a background that are a little more tough and less apealing to the cichlids?


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## loffy74 (Sep 28, 2008)

about your orange Saulosi, I would definately hit up your supplier. Thats not right...
especially sold as F1 .

there is no way those are F1 Saulosi, maybe even Red zebra or Hybrid.

you should get some sort of refund for that.
Dont get me wrong, they are actually nice looking fish. I just had to point that
out for you, in case you decide to breed them. You should know whats in your tank.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

loffy74 said:


> about your orange Saulosi, I would definately hit up your supplier. Thats not right...
> especially sold as F1 .
> 
> there is no way those are F1 Saulosi, maybe even Red zebra or Hybrid.


Agreed, I don't understand how his saulosi could vary so much, unless maybe a red zebra got loose in his saulosi breeding tank. 

He didn't seem like the most organized person, maybe he sent the wrong fish.

Anyways, its worth contacting him about.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

My Saulosi are a golden yellow. Not as bright yellow as the Labs, but definitely yellow. Perhaps those are Membe Deep or Msobo. They have more Orange females. Or, it could be the lighting? There is a "coral red" Saulosi hybrid out there, as well. Pretty tank...I just wouldn't distibute Saulosi from it. Syno Multies are great fry eaters!


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

TheEdoubleDIE said:


> appriciate it just keeping my fingers crossed on those valls hopefully the fish dont eat them up beyond repair.... any ideas on good looking plants foor a background that are a little more tough and less apealing to the cichlids?


Forgot to respond the your plant question.

I don't have any experience trying to keep mbuna with plants, but I have read a decent amount about it.

Vallisneria is apparently a pretty tastey snack for mbuna, but it has been kept with them succesfully before. The trick is to have enough of it that it will be able to keep up with the constant assault from the mbuna. I would keep you valls as is for now and if they start getting too chewed up I would double the amount you have. I don't know if you are using fertilizers, but if you do increase the amount of plants you will most likely need to add some sort of fertilizer to support the plant life. There are a ton of different fertilizers on the market and I don't know enough about it to recommend a specific type or brand. You will need to do some research if you are going to add fertilizers.

Also, I've read that java fern is a good choice if your keeping mbuna. They don't seem to like the taste of it. I don't think it would really work as a background cover plant though.

But like I said, this is just what I have read, so I would welcome additions or criticism from anyone who has experience with this.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

alright Ill contact him but the picutres i posted look exactly like the color of them to the eye. And you can definantly tell just like you can on thee pictures that there is a huge differance in color between the labs and the mystery fish.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Ok so this is where I'm sitting at i highly doubt these fish are F1 Ps. Saulosi and i wasnt too worried about it. But i got to thinking... if I dont know what they are I dont know anything about them even if i have an idea on what they might be. So since they are so young I dont mind getting rid of them. I hate to do that but I'm really not going to know until they are full grown. I guess what I'm trying to get at is, should i leave them in since they cant breed yet anyways and let it ride (is there something I'm not accounting for that could be bad leaving them in there?) or should i go ahead and get new fish? I would like to get new fish for several reasons, if i were to stock i would buy adults so they could start producing fry instantly, I would get the awesome adult colors, and the tank would look awesome at the end of the day with adults. The cons of this are they were the 1st cichlids and i couldnt reall get rid of them to anyone if i didnt know what they are.....

I dont know, I'm on the fence on this one.

If I do decide to get new fish what would you put with rusties and lions cove yellow labs?


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Demasoni, or Cyno Hara, or Maingano would look good and work.

I hate that the Saulosi are in question, because they are a great fish.. I hope it is not poor lighting and or/pics as they move fast, leading us to believe that they are not as promised. Did you ask the supplier?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I personally would hold onto them until I knew what they were. If the supplier can't answer this maybe try posting the pics in the identification forum, or let them grow out until they are easier to identify.

I definitely wouldn't give them away or sell them without knowning what they are first unless you know that the person your giving them to won't breed them or pass them along to someone else.

If I couldn't identify them or if they turned out to be hybrids I would set up a seperate tank just for them and stock it with a few syno multies too.

I can't make any suggestions on what you could replace them with, as I have never kept labs or rusties. But I'm sure someone else will chime in with some good suggestions. :thumb:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

We used to have a frequent poster on the forum named Chapman76 and he raised saulosi. He said there were two strains (this was before the advent of the coral red business). One that was more yellow and one that was more orange. He preferred the more orange strain, as do I. I would not assume your fish is a hybrid.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

If anyone has worked with saulosi much... if mine are 1-1.25" what is a guestimated time fram i am looking at till they begin coloring up?


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## loffy74 (Sep 28, 2008)

its a slow process, it can start at 1.25 and complete at 2.25
depends on how dominate the individual male is and what else is in the tank.
some males will never color up , some males will color up half way.
but usually you will have one fully colored male.

as for orange Saulosi, I have never seen this as a pure species.
nor has Ad konnings ever indicate or photograph a orange Saulosi in his books.
so i think that theory is debatable.

does anyone have a picture of a orange saulosi in the Wild. I doubt it.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

roger i will wait it out but ill get some ideas on some replacement fish depending what happens.


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## loffy74 (Sep 28, 2008)

if you have yellow labs already.....
Demasoni, or Cyno Hara,might be a better option anyways.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

I really like Demasoni (from the little i know) that look awesome. Someone metioned "more orange F1 Saulosi" can someone who has had expirance with them fill me in on all they know?


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## nauTik (Mar 18, 2009)

TheEdoubleDIE said:


> I really like Demasoni (from the little i know) that look awesome. Someone metioned "more orange F1 Saulosi" can someone who has had expirance with them fill me in on all they know?


If you decide to replace them with Demasoni prepare for a lot of work in the future. You will most likely have to remove a few males down the road.

I think you should stick with the saulosi though, personally I prefer the deeper orange variety. I'm not exactly sure if that's what you have though. Regardless, if you paid for F1 fish you should probably get your money back if what you got isn't what you expected.

You also may want to wait a while and see how they develop, just be patient your males could turn out to be beautiful and well worth the patience. Personally, when it comes to saulosi my goal would be to try to get a very good looking male. That's just my preference though, as I love the coloration on dom male saulosi, much like dems.

There are a lot of options you could go with though, I think it's just a matter of what you will be happiest with in the short term AND long term. As well as what's most realistic and what's available to you.


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## loffy74 (Sep 28, 2008)

Demasoni need atleast 12 i think though. so thats a consideration if you choose them.


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## nauTik (Mar 18, 2009)

loffy74 said:


> Demasoni need atleast 12 i think though. so thats a consideration if you choose them.


you'd want to start out with more than just 12, which indeed is something to consider especially if you don't want to spend too much more money. They are also much smaller though, like saulosi.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

alright ill definantly looking into something that wont mess my fish to tank ratio.

Anyone know more on these orange and yellow types of saulosi?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Try doing a search on posts by Chapman76. I have not seen any real saulosi aficionados posting in recent years.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

will do. also what other types of plants are native to lake malawi? my 30 vals look awesome and will probably make it if not put up a fight for quite a few months. Is there any tall plants that are tough and less appealing to the cichlids?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Valls are the only one I know of that is also available at all in the aquarium industry. Try the giant valls if you have to replant, Fogelhund has success with them.

If you are going for biotope, the mbuna don't hang out in the marshy plant habitats of Lake Malawi, that is more for the breeding haps and their fry. Good hiding places.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

They seem to love it they hide in there, eat, and "play" i guess u could say between the bubbles screen and the valls they weave in and out of it. Also I understand that have much sucess with fry in a mbuna tank is very difficult... I have two catfish that arent helping my cause when the time comes. I was thinking about replacing them with some algea eaters.

Will the cichlids "F" up my clown plecos?
Would clown plecos be a good choice because is a small size algea eater?
If so: How many for my tank?
Has anyone worked much with cichlid stones? I have 31 in my tank right now the fish seem to love them because of the hiding places and to build their territories. What are the odds of my having fry make it with them despite the fact of the fish stocked getting to them?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Your fry will not make it in the tank due to the adult mbuna as much as the catfish. For example, if you have 20 fry two might survive with just the mbuna and one might survive with the mbuna and the catfish. But 20 will survive if you remove the mom and raise the fry in another tank.

If by algae eaters you mean CAE, they eventually stop eating algae and attack the slime coat on your fish instead, killing them in some instances. Clowns are large fish (13") that need to be in groups (6 is good) and do best in a 72" aquarium with a lower pH than Malawi. If you want algae eating with zero fry eating in a small tank then lose the synodontis and get a single bristlenose pleco.

When I first started keeping aquaria I purchased manufactured caves like cichlid stones, but after about a year I decided I wanted a more natural look and now I used the purchased items for fry and hospital tanks, but not display tanks.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

alright the only thing I have is a 5gallon tank would that be suitable to put a holding fish in?
how big do the bristlenose pleco grow to?


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## metro6775 (Sep 16, 2008)

You could hold a fish about to spit in a 2.5 gallon bucket with an airstone. She should only be in there a few days, just do partial water change every couple of days if she is in there longer.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Bristlenose mature between 4 and 5 inches. You can use a small tank for a holding mom, but you would not be able to raise a batch of 20 fry to 1.5" in a 5G. So if you are going to save the fry, you will need a larger tank to raise them.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

So 1 bristlenose for the 55 gal?
As far as the 5gal tank goes... how would i got about raising the fry? Would it ultimatly turn into a battle royal between fry and only a few would make it? I guess what im trying to ask if i get her to spit into my 5 gallon i would remove her and feed the fry?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes but it would be too small for them in a couple weeks, you would need a larger tank. Maybe if you only want a few (or really none) you would want to let the mom spit in the tank.


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## patten (Mar 5, 2010)

I have yellow labs and rusties in a tank like yours with thin vallisneria along the back.

The yellow labs seem to like the val and spend a lot of time in that area.

They do pick at the leaves, but so far the val growth far exceeds what they eat and I have to trim it every week or so to keep it under control.

If you are worried about authenticity of having the val with yellow labs don't be. Ad Konings in his book Malawi Cichlids in their natural habitat talks about L. caeruleus (yellow labs) living in beds of Vallisneria.

I love the look of your tank, good luck with it.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

appriciate it, yea im hoping they vals make it i will say they look much better that the 3rd or 4th day i had them in there.

I forgot who mentioned they worked with cichlid stones but did you notice anything about breeding and fry with them, or did you always remove the holding mother? I would imagine that it has a better chance due to the fact the mother can fin off other fish after her fry... If anyone has had expirence please chime in. 
I will say that my one male lab gets a bit agressive on a regular basis with this one female i have and she will jet off into a cichlid stone.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Its my understanding that the mother is just as likely to eat the fry as anyone else. This is why you have to remove the mother from the fry tank after she spits.

Pair spawners are the ones that will protect and raise there fry.

If you want to save any fry you will need to have a fry tank and a growout tank, or just one large fry/growout tank. If you don't care if you save any fry, but wouldn't mind finding a couple survivors every so often then just let the holding mom spit in the tank. But don't get your hopes up, some people only get one or two survivors a year, and others get no survivors. No amount of cover in your main tank will guaruntee that some of your fry will survive.

You have plenty of time to setup a fry tank though. Even if the first few clutches are spit in the tank and lost, you will have more opportunities down the road. You have the advantage of having species that breed easily. :thumb:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

That is correct, Malawi mothers do not protect their fry.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

ok thank you for clearifing. how big of a tank is minimum to have them grow out in? And at what size will they be able o join the rest?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you have a small spawn (10 of less) of a small fish, a 10G might be the minimum but a 20G will be more serviceable for a normal spawn (20 or more). Size for sale and/or mixing them with adults is 1.5" but some LFS want them to be 2" before they will purchase (for store credit).


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