# Red and Pink T. meeki???



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Okay, this has recently been brought to my attention that there is now a Red Firemouth, and a Pink Firemouth... can someone please enlighten me.

he told me that the Pink ones are unable to flare there gills and are Pinkish red, and the Red ones are able to flare and have a Orange-Red color.

this is bull ****... right??? or for the 8ish years I've been in the hobby have I been blind to this...?


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

I have never heard of a pink FM. I know ones that are of a poor quality will have a duller red color than a well bred one. But pink I have never heard of or seen before. Sorry sounds like [email protected] to me.


----------



## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I've never heard that before...

It is very possible that there is a strain of Meeki from a certain locale or region that are more pink than red... that wouldn't suprise me at all...

Not being able to flare sounds very odd. Most Cichlids can flare their gills. Having a smaller flare may be a second genetic trait to the 'Pink' Meekis (if they exist)...

My guess would be this is the result of one person observing a small number of their own fish. People will often see something in their tank and speculate a whole world of reasons explaining it then promote their speculation as fact...

I can see a subdominant Meeki looking a little more pink than red and not flaring (to avoid drawing attention of the dominant Meeki though, not because it can't).

I wouldn't argue with someone making such claims but I would ask them to back up their information...


----------



## mbargas (Apr 19, 2009)

lil mama said:


> I have never heard of a pink FM. I know ones that are of a poor quality will have a duller red color than a well bred one. But pink I have never heard of or seen before. Sorry sounds like [email protected] to me.


I recall that there was a Super Red Firemouth available years ago. I'm not sure, but I think it was Jeff Rapps. I presume that it was line bred. I haven't heard of them recently.


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

mbargas said:


> lil mama said:
> 
> 
> > I have never heard of a pink FM. I know ones that are of a poor quality will have a duller red color than a well bred one. But pink I have never heard of or seen before. Sorry sounds like [email protected] to me.
> ...


Why did you quote me when you responded here? :?


----------



## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

lil mama said:


> mbargas said:
> 
> 
> > lil mama said:
> ...


Quoting is fun.


----------



## MidNightCowBoy (May 7, 2007)

chrispyweld said:


> lil mama said:
> 
> 
> > mbargas said:
> ...


Nothing like a little unnecessary quoting!


----------



## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

I've never heard the term either.

It is possible that the names refer to a local variety (such as H. Carpinte "escondido), or that they refer to another related species. When I found A.Robertsoni in a LFS a number of years ago, they were being sold as Turquoise Firemouths.


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Ya I saw some marked at the LFS as rare Mayan Firemouths one time. They just looked like regular old FMs to me. 
:lol: Funny chrispyweld and MidNightCowBoy very funny you guys :lol: :lol:


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

This might be what the person was talking about...

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=66


----------



## straitjacketstar (Mar 8, 2004)

Maybe someone had albinos in mind when referring to "pink" FM?


----------



## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Or _T. aureus_ or _T. maculipinnis_ ... either of them I would call having a pink coloration on their throats.


----------



## Riceburner (Sep 3, 2008)

maybe a lesser strain?


----------



## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

^ +1.

Maybe a line to pass off lower quality strains as a legitimate race?

And yikes are those pics crossed with cons? The head shape is unlike nearly every FM I've ever seen, as is the banding.


----------



## mok3t (Nov 28, 2008)

I've bought a few dodgy FMs before but never seen any like that! Does look like its got convict in it though. Kinda cute


----------



## phishes (May 17, 2005)

Are you sure it isn't another type of thorichthys?


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

I dunno, just someone kept mention red and pink firemouths and I was dead certain there is no difference between the 2 besides the quality of the firemouth...

what got me thinking it was funny was saying they can't flare there gills... LOL


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

but regardless, that is what I thought... it is BS.


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Toby_H said:


> I've never heard that before...
> 
> It is very possible that there is a strain of Meeki from a certain locale or region that are more pink than red... that wouldn't suprise me at all...
> 
> ...


pretty much my conclusion after hearing this... but I also thought perhaps another common name for _T. maculipinnis_ or _T. aureus_.

I dunno, just sounded like such bull s*** I had to post this...


----------



## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

As suggested by others, they could have also meant Leucistic as Leucistic fish are often referred to as "pink"... note: Leucistic is very similar to albino and many leucistic fish are mislabeled as albino... Gage knows this but I shared it for others 

It could also be some BS nic name someone assigned to another thorichthys species...

But is most likely just some nonsense someone said either trying to make up a new nic name or trying to sound smart...

Where did you hear about this? Was it from what appeared to be a reliable source or just internet babble?


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

hi i was the one who brot it up in the first place
i actually had a pink FM
and removed it because it was killing alot of my fish
so i will try and get a pic but they actually have a pink or really deep dark red in their throat


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

http://www.cichlids.com/uploads/tx_user ... es_155.jpg
that is the link to the pic of the pink FM


----------



## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

That looks like a Convict x Firemouth hybrid to me...

I strongly disagree with giving hybrids pretty nic names as this only disguises the detail that they are a hybrid (mix breed). I will not get into any pros/cons of hybridization, but I think we can all agree that properly identifying our fish is important.


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

ya man, definitely a hybrid, not a normal firemouth.


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

kk
that is what i thought


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

but it was much targer than any convict i have ever seen


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

you know convicts get 6" eh? heres a pic of my big guys of the past:


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

k well my pink fm didn't look anything like a convict
diff bodyshape 
and it looked alot like my red one except it had pink gills instead of a red orange


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I find it amusing that the hybrid card gets pulled so quickly... :lol:


----------



## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

I was thinking the same thing...


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

jamesman_1994 said:


> k well my pink fm didn't look anything like a convict
> diff bodyshape
> and it looked alot like my red one except it had pink gills instead of a red orange


thats why we say Convict x Firemouth, but I'm just showing you convicts can get big to. (if you classify 6" big...)

TheFishGuy... did you _look_ at the fish in question? it surely is not a pure bred...


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

well i bought it in the fish shop as a oink FM and that is what i thought.......... it was like $20 so i am strugling to think y a hybrid would b that much money............ but i am saying it had the exact same shape as a normal fm and it had pink gills and they couldn't b flaired as well as the red on......... i would have shown u a pic but i have traded it in............=\ hay "the fish guy" what do u think?? i am curious of your thoughts on the matter


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

the price is high for a hybrid ya, but giving it that name shows they had no idea what it was.

but it is not meeki, I can *promise* you that much.


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

my brother thought it was the same type of fish as my red one......... oh and they had more than one of them they had a whole tank


----------



## straitjacketstar (Mar 8, 2004)

jamesman_1994 said:


> http://www.cichlids.com/uploads/tx_usercichlids/user_pics/2785/01_katies_cam_Pictures_155.jpg
> that is the link to the pic of the pink FM


It does seem quite possible that the fish in that picture could be Amphilophus/Astatheros longimanus.
If it was a hybrid it would seem more likely that it was an Amphilophus cross, going by the the shape of the face and overall build.


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

k well i traded it in and i got just as much money back so i don't think that it really matters......


----------



## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Many pet stores will put a higher price tag on anything that looks out of the normâ€¦ including hybridsâ€¦

In my experience, less common species are not very often available at random pet stores, especially mislabeledâ€¦ But in my experience hybrids are commonly available at random fish stores wearing some nonsense labelâ€¦


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Ya I heard someone say they saw a tank marked wild caught Flowerhorns once. :lol: :lol:


----------



## straitjacketstar (Mar 8, 2004)

jamesman_1994 said:


> k well i traded it in and i got just as much money back so i don't think that it really matters......


No, for you it doesn't, but if what you had sold to you as a "pink firemouth" actually was A. longimanus then there's a possibility that that's what the OP's talk of the mystery fish could be.

People will put a fancy label to a fish if they think it will help it sell. I've seen fish with no labels at stores. I don't know how well that strategy works but I really don't care either way. I don't tend to buy fish that I have no clue what it is.


----------



## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

lil mama said:


> Ya I heard someone say they saw a tank marked wild caught Flowerhorns once. :lol: :lol:


Yeah that was me. :lol: The Ocean Floor in phoenix had these a while back for $179 or something like that. :roll:


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

hay i went to my fish shop the arn'r hybrids but they rn't meekes


----------



## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

jamesman_1994 said:


> hay i went to my fish shop the arn'r hybrids but they rn't meekes


Well... then what are they?

In my experience fish stores do not get pure strains of rare fish and not know what they are...

In my experience fish stores will say what is necessary to make a fish more desirable...

In my experience labeling a fish as a hybrid (often read as mutt) makes them less desirable...

For them to say "it's not a hybrid" and "it's not a meeki" is useless.... you're not asking what it isn't, you are asking what it is... and they do not seem to know...


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

i forgot what he called it i will get the name next time i go but they arn't rare


----------



## straitjacketstar (Mar 8, 2004)

Toby_H said:


> jamesman_1994 said:
> 
> 
> > hay i went to my fish shop the arn'r hybrids but they rn't meekes
> ...


In my experience they do.
This is how I've found Tomocichla sp., Paraneetroplus sp., Red Tiger Motas & N. haitiensis (not uncommon but very decent quality and weren't even labelled, they had no idea what they were therefore also very cheap), Paratilapia sp., Thorichthys sp., Apistogramma sp., Biotodoma sp., Satanoperca sp., Bujurquina sp, Heroina isonycterina and countless non-cichlid species. All either completely unlabeled or with some whimsical made up on the spot name with no price cause they have no idea what to charge but they can always make one right up should anyone show interest. I once payed 4 different prices for 4 fish, all same shipment, same species all purchased on different days. Funny huh?
Then again I do live in an area where there are many shops and I've found as many awesome and rare things in run-down mom and pop shops as I have in overpriced higher end shops. So to me, it's not at all out of the realm of possibility that the fish in question could be something like A. longimanus.


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

umm the guy told me what they r but i keep forgetting....... =\ 
prommis i will get it next time


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

maybe, but extremely unlikely, especially in Australia, being I hear about there low fish selection all the time, you really think something half-ass rare will show up out of the blue? highly unlikely.


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

hay i live in australia on the mornighton peninsula and ther eis this shop in frankston called everlife aquarium has the best stocking list in victoria for cichlids....... it is privately owned so he has a clue with all ur cichlid needs =] this would only b good if u live near melbourne  good luch


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Privately owned does not instantly mean knowledgeable staff, or owner, it means he is good with business and people, whether he is knowledgeable or not has not much to do with it, it is a bonus if he is, but, sadly, unlikely.

however, I will add that he will most likely know more then the typical chain stores (Petland, Petsmart, PetCo, Petcetera etc.) and I hope for your sake he is at least partially knowledgeable.


----------



## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

I have to go with straightjacketstar on this. I've seen quite a few rare fish mislabled, or given a "trade name" that's not familiar to anyone. On example...at a Petland about 15 years ago I picked up a pair of A. Robertsoni as " Turquoise Firemouth." The employees (including the livestock manager) had no idea what they were.


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

_Astatheros robertsoni_ are quite often labeled turquoise firemouth, it is a "legit" common name.

I to have seen a ton of fish mislabeled, however, according to an uncle of mine that lives in Australia, they have dick all for fish, let alone mislabeled rare fish.

again, didn't say it is impossible, but highly unlikely to be anything spectacular.


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I've kept robertsoni for six years, it was only in the last few months that I've seen that common name... No point really, just makin conversation


----------



## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

oldcatfish said:


> I have to go with straightjacketstar on this. I've seen quite a few rare fish mislabled, or given a "trade name" that's not familiar to anyone. On example...at a Petland about 15 years ago I picked up a pair of A. Robertsoni as " Turquoise Firemouth." The employees (including the livestock manager) had no idea what they were.


Made up Common names and mislabeled are very different...

A pretty name is a motivator to purchase a fish... Latin names are hard to pronounce and hard to remember, which is why common names exist in the first place...

Using made up names also allows the store employees to make up "facts" about a fish that are much harder to verify as imporper information...

No point really, just additionally contributing to the conversation


----------



## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

I agree with you all...if they are making up a name to fool you---that's just wrong.

Sometimes fish come in that aren't common, so the trade gives them a name that nobody has ever heard of. There are many species that are in the same genus as T. Meeki that aren't commonly available. Several of them do resemble a "pink" colored firemouth--so I can see them making that name up.

And as far as A. Robertsoni---when I found them in the store, they weren't commonly available...and I'd never seen any reference to the name "Turquoise Firemouth." 
That was back in the late 1980's to early 1990's.


----------



## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

oldcatfish said:


> That was back in the late 1980's to early 1990's.


Back then before the internet was around regional or local nick names were a lot more common... in areas beyond aquaria...

Those were also the days when the LFS workers were regarded as the gurus at keeping animals... Now they are more often seen as con artists...

The internet has done wonders for us at spreading accurate information and keeping pictures along with Latin & "international" common names at our finger tips, etc... But it also allows anyone and everyone to equally post opinions despite unequal levels of experience/education on the subject... I guess everything has pros and cons


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Indeed


----------



## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

Ok, now I just feel really old thanks to the " back then, before the internet was around comment."


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

hahaha i was only bor in 1994 hahahaha.... so i have a long time to go and alot to learn... i think i want to go over to centeral america..... i want to b a mariene biologest.... already have my scuba licence  any way this hobby if for all ages and that is y i like it =]


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I remember discovering google for the first time... I googled Tiger shovelnose catfish and got like three hits LOL That was probably in 1994 LOL


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

hahaha my birth year


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

No worries, I'm only 2 years older then you are, experience and opinions within certain topics will come quickly.

Granted, even at 16, I've had my own aquarium for 8 years hehe...


----------



## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

cool i only got into cichlids after my turtle died =[ i had a 55g empty in my room so i went to my LFS and had a look... they were prety limited so i got some kribs and they were my first cichlids.... so i had a look around and i like the look of convicts so i got some of them... then i found this shop which was totaly dedicated to cichlids... i though i had finaly made it too heven... so i had a look and got some severums and a fm... i found out that the fm was from Ca so i had a look at what sort of cichlids were from there.... after i traded in the pink FM chocy brown the severums and kribs convicts and everything except the FM (this is when i decided to go all CA) i had a little look (i had only found this web site just b4 this happened.... so i had read a fair amount of posts and found thet JD's were prety cool so i did some research and found that the male got to about 10" i think and the female around 6" so now i have a krib (little ******* escaped the net and i missed her and found her swimming around in my tank when i got home) so now i have a FM'about 4" and a male and female JD about 3"... going to get a 3ft for the fm and now have a tank for the JD's.... and all this is over the course of 3 years... so i have some expeariance (i find that hours go by when i am watching the fish, i can really get to know the species, i spend too much time watching the fish and not doing home work HAHAHAH)


----------

