# Syno. Petricola - How many?



## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

Hello,

I've got a 55g tank currently with 6-1" maingano, 6-1" Yellow Labs, and 2-1" Petricola*. The ideal mature stocking for this tank will be 1m-5f of each adult mbuna species. I might add acei's as a third mbuna species, in which case I will drop to 1m-3f of each mbuna species.

(*They were sold as petricola, but I hear that sometimes whats sold as petricola is actually luccipinis?)

Anyways, I had 3 petricola, but I of them died within a couple hours of being in the tank. My LFS says to bring him back in to be looked at for a replacement, and I was thinking that I might consider getting some more of them. They are very beautiful fish.

So, I am wondering how many of these guys I can keep together in a 55g tank? I've read that syno's like to be in groups, but I don't know the rules as far as how many for what size tank. I can buy them in groups of 3 for a reduced price, so I was thinking I might get the replacement and 3 more for a total of 6. Would that be ok? or too many?

Also, I have a second tank I'm setting up. Its planned to be a similis/calvus tank, but it might end up being an mbuna growout tank. its 29g with a 48x12 footprint. So, if I originally start out with too many young syno's in the 55g, I can move some over to the 29g when its up and running. Maybe if I start out with 6 in the 55g, I can eventually move 2 of them to the 29g? Or maybe 3 and 3? Does that sound like it would work, or could I get away with (or be better with) more in either the 55 or the 29 when all the intended inhabitants are grown up?

Also, does sex matter with these guys? and if so, how do you determine what they are? (might come in handy if I ever feel like trying to get them to breed)

Thanks for the help.


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## hazard (Apr 6, 2003)

To me a group of 20 in a 55g would be entertaining. The more the merrier. If you have rock work in the tank you will probably won't see them to often unless you are feeding the tank.

I imagine at the lfs they are charging you $12 each or more for them. To bad you weren't closer or found a local breeder of them. I have probably 600 in my tanks growing out. John Oyer is in Ohio but am not sure where.

To me the sex of the synos doesn't matter


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

> To me a group of 20 in a 55g would be entertaining. The more the merrier. If you have rock work in the tank you will probably won't see them to often unless you are feeding the tank.


Cool! is that 20 by themselves, or 20 with whatever else is in the tank. How many would you keep in a tank with 12 adult mbuna? (I'm probably not going to go with 20, but its nice to know 6 would be alright.)

I do have rockwork in the tank, but right now I see the 2 I have quite a bit. I expect that will change when they get bigger.



> I imagine at the lfs they are charging you $12 each or more for them. To bad you weren't closer or found a local breeder of them. I have probably 600 in my tanks growing out. John Oyer is in Ohio but am not sure where.


The LFS is selling them for $10 ea. IF you buy 3. The reg. price is $15ea. $10 ea. is about the best I've seen from online places, so I figured I was getting an OK deal. I didn't really look into local breeders... probably should have made a better attempt to do that :?

600?!?  I know where can send a few  My guess is you won't even miss 'em. By the way, how exactly do you breed these guys? I've heard they'll lay eggs with the mouthbrooders, and I've also heard they "scatter" eggs. I haven't really attempted to research it any further yet, though.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I would check what sort they are too.
Not sure what it is like near you but all the "petricola" for sale near me in the shops and from breeders are really the dwarf petricola (S. lucipinnis). (Real petricola can be found I think but only know that from one importer who shows photos of the correct fish but too pricey for me as yet).
This article may help.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... cle_id=418
All the best James

PS But for all I know they may be mass producing the real petricola near you.
Not that S.lucipinnis would not suit your tank just as much as petricola, just good to have the correct name if looking to breed em and pass em on and know what size they will get and a group that is all the same species. :thumb:


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## airlift123 (Jun 14, 2009)

Make sure that you feed those fish at night as they come out at night to forage and buy or make some caves for them. For them to be happy and prosper they hide all day and will only come out at night.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Although 20 would be awesome, I have 5 and they are out and about all day (and all night).


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

*24Tropheus*: Thanks for the advice. I've stumbled across that site once already, but I've determined that i'm probably not going to be able to identify my syno's by myself at least until they get closer to full size. I guess if they get over 4", they're probably petricola, and if they stay under 4", they're probably lucipinnis. After researching a bit, I don't think I'm going to try to breed them, although I might change my mind by the time they're breeding age. So, the exact species isn't AS important, but it would still be nice to know exactly what kind it is I have. I'll ask the LFS tonight, but I'm doubting they'll be much help because their naming conventions are a bit screwy 

*airlift123*: Thanks for the tip. Right now, as soon as I turn the light on in the morning, my 2 little catfish come out and start scouring the substrate and rocks looking for food. The mbunas are still a little skittish first thing in the mornings, so I drop in a few pellets while the mbuna aren't watching. They sink to the bottom, and then a few seconds later the catfish find them, so I know for now they're getting fed. Once the mbuna know whats going on, there isn't a single pellet that hits the sand. :lol:

Do the syno's feed on algae? I don't have any in my tank just yet, but the LFS suggested dropping in some algae tablets as a treat for them every once in a while. I thought they were mostly carnivores though...

Also, I don't have caves per se specifically for the syno's, but I do have lots of rockwork where they can go to hide when they feel like. I'm more worried about when everyone gets older that the mbuna's might claim all the rockwork and exile the synos...

*DJRansome*: I'm guessing by your sig that you have the 5 lucipinnis in the 38g with the peacock? Do you think I'd have any problems with 6 of them in a 55 full of mbuna (labs, mainganos, and probably aceis)?

And for now at least, I do see my syno's day and night as well. They're my favorites


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Rhinox said:


> I've stumbled across that site


Post a pic, they will identify them for you.



Rhinox said:


> Also, I don't have caves per se specifically for the syno's, but I do have lots of rockwork


They like low-ceiling caves, I have terra cotta saucers covered by a slate tile under all my rock piles. The mbuna go in there with them and the cats don't seem to mind.



Rhinox said:


> I'm guessing by your sig that you have the 5 lucipinnis in the 38g with the peacock? Do you think I'd have any problems with 6 of them in a 55 full of mbuna (labs, mainganos, and probably aceis)?


Yes, but I also had them in my 72" tank for 2 years with all the mbuna in the 75G along with acei, socolofi and 5 multipunctatus. It was great!


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Just a quick question from me to DJRansome or anyone who has input. I have found tanks with any Syno even Synodontis lucipinnis in em, get on average less fry survival from cichlid mouthbrooders (Tropheus and Mbuna) left to release in the tank. I guess the cats get a few very young fry at night. What are your experiences?
About the only downside I can think of about mixing em with Mbuna and/or Tropheus.
I have a cool group of 5 in my 70g with Tropheus and had a group of 7 in my big tank. But I am sure I could have more in either. If you have just two males in the group they do fight a bit but nothing to worry about at all. :thumb:


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> Rhinox said:
> 
> 
> > I've stumbled across that site
> ...


Bolded remarks are mine, obviously . Thanks for the reply


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

Any tang syno cat will eat fry  more readily than a cichlid.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes it is actually a fairly common recommendation to add synos (especially multipunctatus IME) to a tank if you want fry control.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

DJRansome said:


> Yes it is actually a fairly common recommendation to add synos (especially multipunctatus IME) to a tank if you want fry control.


They do a number on my fry! :lol:


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

Still enjoying my syno's as well as the rest of my fish.

I was just wondering, is there anything special I should be doing to ensure my syno's get fed?

I feed NLS cichlid pellets, and the pellets disappear as soon as they hit the water. The mbuna's break them up and make a bit of a mess with them, but I'm not sure if the pellet dust aftermath settles so that the catfish can find it, or if it gets sucked up in one of my two AC110 filters.

The first morning I fed them, they weren't used to me yet and the first couple pellets hit the substrate. A couple seconds later, a catfish came out of the rocks and ate it.

Every time I feed, the catfish come out and start swimming around like they're looking for food. I feed most of the pellets in the center of the tank so its not disturbed by the filter return flow, but occasionally I'll try to sneak a couple pellets down to the substrate by dropping it right into the agitated water coming out of the filter. Some pellets get lost in the rocks where I'm sure they eventually become a catfish snack, and sometimes those pesky mbunas lol still find them and grab them off the substrate before the syno happens to swim by and find it.

So is all that even necessary? Is what I'm doing excessive, or is there maybe more I should be doing to ensure they get fed? i'm sure eventually I'll have some breeding and my synos will have some mbuna fry to snack on, but until then, don't want these guys to starve.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I dump in the NLS fast enough that some pellets hit the substrate and then I figure the syno's are on their own. And I keep an eye on their bellies which they show me fairly often since they like to swim up the glass, especially at night.


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

DJRansome said:


> Yes it is actually a fairly common recommendation to add synos (especially multipunctatus IME) to a tank if you want fry control.


Uhoh, sounds like I may have gone too far with the fry control bit with my Tang community tank. I "only" have 4 multis and only one pair is a confirmed breeding pair. With them I have 3 juve calvus (and yes, Im aware of potential future problems if more than 1 are males) and I just added 2 juve petricola/lucipinnis with the intention to put in at least 4 more. They all will be in a planted 55 gallon. Looks like I may have to isolate the multis untill they get a good sized colony going before putting them together with the calvus and dwarf petricolas/lucipinnis.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Both calvus and synodontis will eat fry. The synodontis will also be all over the multi shells and annoy the heck out of them. I was advised to choose either synos or shellies but not both if you are interested in seeing the natural behavior (as opposed to anti-syno behavior) of the shellies.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I do what DJRansome does to ensure some gets to the substrate.
I also feed small pieces of the H20 sinking wafers using a long tong to put them in a few places the peacocks can't reach.

I love my synos. I have six to eight petricola in slightly smaller than 55 gallon tanks. I adore them. I'm not sure I'd do more than 8 in a 55, though . . . but that's just me.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Funny enough my Synos have learnt to swim upsidedown at the surface and thus get more than thier fare share of any food I offer. (Floating and sinking) but yep untill they learn this trick good to make sure they get some good food in cichlid tanks and not just most of the fry. :wink: 
It works in reverse too though. The cichlids eat a lot of the S.lucipinnis eggs, as the get scattered too. :thumb:

With a strong group of 'Lamprologus' multifasciatus plus S.lucipinnis you sometimes get the multies looking after young catfish. The catfish eggs are scattered in the multie territory/shell pile and hatch and eat the multie eggs and fry and get protected from thier own kind that would otherwise eat them!

Very interesting to watch but not the easiest way of breeding high numbers of iether species.


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