# Re-home or Wait it out



## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

Over the past week or so my Red Zebra has been acting very territorial. He's been digging a lot more than he normally does, protecting the spots he digs and has been chasing EVERYone in the tank. A few of the bigger guys have some pretty nipped up fins and it's worrying me. 
I'd rather re-home or trade him than rather have the others get picked off one by one by one by one by one by one (Psych ref). He's a beautiful fish and I'd really hate to get rid of him. Is this normal behavior or is he a time bomb waiting to go off?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of your tank and what is your stock list? The occasional nipped fin is normal, but multiple injuries are a cause for concern.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

I would ask the same questions to begin with..stock? and tank dimensions? That is a really nice looking Red Zebra male..and no that behavior is totally normal for a dominant male. He will be a breeding machine..and it sounds like that is what is starting. Depending on the size of your tank...he may be the only (RZ) male that does well..and you will need to make sure you have at least 3 (more are better) females that are close to his size and plenty of hiding places for them. My dominant male RZ male is aggressive in the same way..but never harms or fights with any of the Cyno Hara, Lab Mbamba or the Rusties. He is definitely tough on his females with the chasing and breeding, so keep that in mind and have several females to spread the aggression around.

I wouldn't recommend them for a tank less than 48" wide


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## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

To start off with the tank is a Marineland Hartland 60gal, 48"x 12.75" x 25" and yeah there is ample hiding places. There is a total of about 80-90lbs of rock with a good bit of caves and openings for hiding.










As for the stock it's kind of spread out but nowhere near as bad as I have seen from others.

1.	Acie x2 (Jumper and Stitch) - Not sure if M/F
2.	Cobalt Blue x 2 (Pearl and Lilo) - I know for sure one is F 
3.	Yellow Lab (Lemonjello [la-mong-a-lo]) - This one is F
4.	Bumblebee (Logan) this one is actually very peaceful - Not sure if M/F
5.	Jewel (Corban Dallas) - Not sure if M/F (I suspect F) likes to hide out in the rock all the time
6.	Red Fin Borleyi (no name yet) Not sure if M/F
7.	Demasoni (no name yet) Not sure if M/F
8.	Red Zebra (Mr. Orange) Def M
Aside for the RZ chasing everyone in the tank, they all get along very well. I rescued the Demasoni (It's about 3 inches so it holds its owne). The only nipping I can physically see is from the coblats, the acie (one of them is a bit smaller than the other) the Red Fin and the Yellow Lab. The Jewel, bumblebee and Dem are all in pristine condition but the RZ will still chase them. I know it's not the ideal stock but it's worked so far. A few others I have introduced since I upgraded to the 60gal.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

Nice looking tank and setup! Hmm, well I'm not sure where to start on advice for stocking or changes...but I see several things that are going to be problems down the road (within a few months). With the tank size and current guests,..I would recommend a Mbuna stocking. The jewel and Borleyi aren't Mbuna, so they would need to be rehomed (or traded if possible). That's the problem with 'naming' and getting too attached to your Cichlids when you are first getting started,..some don't make it..some need to be rehomed, some get picked on and hide (then get sick) etc.

With that size tank,..in my experience you could do 4 species in small groups of 4 or 5 each,..totaling 18-20 fish or so.
Others may say 3 works best..but a 4th can work if it's the right group. Considering what you have now,..and considering aggression and crossbreeding issues,..I would go with Yellow-Labs, Cobalts, 3 or 4 Acei...and possibly a group of Bumblebee (I've not kept them but I read they are aggressive and get pretty big)..but I would consider Rusties or a Cynotiapia group instead.

If you do like and want to try the Demasoni,..that's a whole other topic. They are great but a lot of work to get a group working well,..and you would need 12-15 to begin with (very aggressive towards each other)..and probably only want Yellow-Labs and maybe 1 other species with them.

I know that stinks to have to rehome, trade etc. your fish..but I think you will be much better off going forward. There are a lot of reasons that your mix will have big problems..and others can chime in with more. Let us know what you want to acheive..colors, breeding etc. and we can give more advice. Good luck!


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

If it where my tank I would also add a lot more rock as well. In you set up there are a lot of pass through holes but not many actual spots to hide were they can face forward and not have to worry about their backs.


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## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

Thanks for the complement on the tank. Going from a smaller tank to this massive thing has been a roller coaster, just seems like I am buying one thing after the other.

As for the stock, the naming is just a fun little thing I like to do attachment with names doesn't stick with me. I have had some of these guys since they were small tikes (as you can see from the photo of the RZ). I have tried pretty hard to get a good grouping but its just so hard when all of them are such beautiful fish.

I'm not opposed to re-homing or trading, just would be difficult to do ya know. I did kind of jump in head first and boy have I learned a lot in the past year. Being on C-F has really helped out a lot and nice to have some the ones that reasoned be polite and willing to help out.

I like the look of the Rusty and the Cyno's too (I have a secret obsession with Fronts but they get way too big). The Cyno's remind me of the Dem, just lighter and less black stripes.

As for the bumblebee I figured I'd stick it out till he started picking on the others but that never happened. The RZ has always shown a bit of aggression but nothing like he is now.

At this point I guess I'll start to look into rehoming/trading the ones I have and see if I cant balance out the stock a bit better.


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## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

Cyphound, there are a good bit of pass thoughts but on the back side there are there are also a good bit of caves as well. Mainly in the center and right side of the tank.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

I did the same exact thing when I started my first Cichlid tank a year and a half or so ago,..bought a nice mixture of all the fish I liked at the LFS..and like you it seemed like I was buying 'something' constantly for the tank. That calms down too, once you get things established and running smoothly. It took me almost a year of reading and getting advice on this forum until I got my tanks all exactly the way I want them...although with Mbuna breeding groups, they are always somewhat in flux.


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## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

Just called my local LFS, they said they would give me 1/3 store credit of what they would resell them for. Not sure how I feel about that but if that is what it takes. 
Plan on keeping the Acei, Cobalt and maybe the Yellow Lab. then going from there.

Any other suggestions other than the Rusty and Cyno?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Since it is 48x12 and you are already having trouble, I'd try 3 species 1m:4f of each and none that mature > 6".

So cobalt and yellow lab will work.

You don't like the rusties or Cynotilapia...why not? It will help us recommend a 3rd species. I would not choose any of the others you already have.


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## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

No I like both the Rusty and Cynotilapia. I was asking of other suggestions. I rather like the yellowish purple look of the Rusty.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

Rusties would be great with Cobalts and Yellow-Labs...and good quality ones can really have some awesome colors that you don't find in other Mbuna. Acei typically aren't recommended for 48" long tanks or smaller..but a a group of 1 male and 2 females can do just fine. I have 3 in my 55g 48" with Demasoni and Yellow-Labs and they are a great addition. They occupy the upper 1/3rd of the tank and swim constantly..and the others mainly use the bottom or middle areas, which is a nice mixture of activity.


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## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

Okay, so I was able to take the Bumblebee (took about 45 min to catch too) back to the LFS I got him from. That's 1 down and 4 more to catch and re-home. Called another local LFS today and asked if they had any rusties in stock. Lucky for me they have about 8, fingers crossed they have some good color on them.


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## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

Weekend update:

I bagged up the Red Fin, RZ, Jewel and Demasoni. Got them all up to the LFS and traded in for store credit.

After all that was taken care of, I was able to some new :fish: !!!!

Ended up with 2 Rusties, 2 Cobalts, 1 Yellow Lab and my last Acei. I wanted to get some more Labs however I got the only non hybrid. I'm still pretty leery on how legit the 2 I currently have are.
Up to date stock: 
3 Acei (that's the limit)
2 Rusty
2 Yellow Labs
4 Cobalt's

Plans on finishing up my stock. I want to get 2-3 more Rusties, 2-3 more Labs and maybe 1 more cobalt.

The advice was very much welcomed, the dynamic of the tank has changed so much in just a day. I watched them pretty much all day yesterday and I have to say WOW. The cobalt's all look so awesome schooling together, the labs kinda stick to there own, the rusties stay side by side and the Acei sort of play follow the leader with the bigger one in front. However, at times all of them will school together and swim the length of the tank for a few mins and then disperse into their own groups.


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## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

Update two:

Got some more fish on the way today. Have a buddy bringing 6 to me this afternoon. 3 more Rusties, 2 Yellow labs and 1 more cobalt, bringing me up to 17 total.

In other news, during all this chaos I found that my initial Lab is holding for her second time.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

Wow, great to hear! Sounds like you are going to have a very nice tank,..so we expect some pics soon!


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## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

For sure, once everyone gets established I'll fire up the DSLR and post them.  Just hope things go well with the new additions.

Also, as soon as I added in the other two Labs my female latched on to one of the newbies and the two began to court with each other.


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## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

Got some decent shots over the weekend. Some over all shots and individuals, the Labs like to blow out in the lights so they are a bit bright (that could be me just getting use to photographing an aquarium).

Well here we go.

Here's a full shot of the tank.









Everyone all bunched up.


















One of the new rusties and a few others.









All of the Labs in one shot.









A rusty showing off its kaiju face.









New Lab.









A few bunched up, Acei, Rusty and Lab









One of the new Cobalt's.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

Looking great! I really like the setup...and very nice pics. Love the Cobalts,..I've never kept those but beautiful fish.


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## NavalOrange (Aug 18, 2014)

Thanks for the complements and help guys, its been a lot work and so far its all paid off.

So my yellow lab that was holding swallowed the her eggs I would assume (probably a good thing for me for now) and the few larger Rustie's are settling in nicely and starting to color up.


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