# How much water is too much water?



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

for a 100 gallon tank i change 20% of water weekly is this enough for when i have 30 chiclids in the future? how much water should i be changing weekly? :-?

how much water do you chnage?


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## riffraffxl (Aug 2, 2007)

fightingfish said:


> for a 100 gallon tank i change 20% of water weekly is this enough for when i have 30 chiclids in the future? how much water should i be changing weekly? :-?


Short answer? Do 50% changes weekly. 20% is not enough.

The real answer though, is "it depends." It depends on feeding schedule, size of the cichlids, etc. The best way is to use a water test kit and pick a desired nitrate level (say, something below 40) and adjust your water change schedule and amount to meet that goal. Of course, not everyone is willing to do this guess and test method.

It is my hunch (and it can only be a hunch based on this info) that 20% is not enough. I base this on the fact that I had nitrates of around 40 (too high) when I had 40ish cichlids in my 135 gallon with 50% changes weekly. I found 50% wasn't enough so I'd imagine 20% would be pushing it.



fightingfish said:


> how much water do you chnage?


I do 60-70% changes weekly and this keeps nitrates at around 30ppm at the end of the week, rigth before water changes. I know this because I've been measuring the nitrate levels and tinkering with my water change percentages.


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## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

50% is a lot of water to change at one time...... i like to declorinate my water in containers before i put my water into the tank so i dont like to mix water in with the fish while it is declorinating. is there an easy way to change water?


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## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

by th way you have a 135 gallon tank may i ask you what fish you keep in your tank?


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## kingpoiuy (Jun 9, 2008)

You've got to change your water according to your nitrate value because it completely depends on your tank. All tanks are different.


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## riffraffxl (Aug 2, 2007)

fightingfish said:


> 50% is a lot of water to change at one time...... i like to declorinate my water in containers before i put my water into the tank so i dont like to mix water in with the fish while it is declorinating. is there an easy way to change water?


It is safe to use the dechlorinator Prime by putting it in the tank itself and adding water directly. I know it's not ideal, but my tank has never lost a fish from these big changes, and that includes 1 cm fry. Consider it if you don't like what your nitrate levels are. Without my Python water changer as wel I'd go insane. I used to use buckets on my 33 gallon and I thought THAT was a lot of work.

As for my stocking list...well, it's a bit weird because I inherited it from someone else and I've been slowly removing the more aggressive fish so it's breaking some "rules" right now.

Iodotropheus Sprengerae	3
Melanchromis Cyaneorhabdos	1
Pseudotropheus Saulosi	8
Auloncara "German Red"	1
Pseudotropheus Socolofi	1
Metriaclima Aurora	3
Cynotilapia Afra (Cobue)	4
Cynotilapia Afra (Lumbila)	3
Labidochromis Caeruleus	4
Labeotropheus Fuelleborni	1
Sciaenochromis Fryeri "Electric Blue"	1
Auroras German Mamelela	1
Copadochromis Trewevasse 1
Placidochromis Phenochilus	1
Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Msuli)	4
Auloncara Stuartgranti (Ngara)	1
Protomelas Taeniolatus Red Empress	1
Cyphotilapia gibberosa	1
Mystery peacock	1

Yes, a weird setup...I even have a front in there. It's been working well for about a year now. Peacocks and haps are displaying full color. The setup itself is about 3 years old, including time from the previous owner. I wouldn't call my stocking list a model for someone else to follow.

Fish I have removed include socolofi, an aggressive male saulosi, and 2 aggressive mainganos.


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## duaneS (Aug 31, 2006)

Water changes are not only for nitrates, there are plenty of other ingredients such as hormones, chemicals and metabolic proccesses that are going on for our meager water changes get rid of, in the soup out fish live. 
I try to change about 20% on my tanks every other day, and my tanks are less crowded than the above example, I consider my effort paultry at best.

I think the water change rules of thumb are there for "humans", and basically are there to gauge what is the "least" we.. can get away with as opposed to what is best for the fish. 
I live next to Lake Michigan, and last year watched a spawning one pair of bass protect a territory @ 10 X 10 X 5 deep, which ads up to about 3750 gallons. This area is constantly changed by surf, winds and tide. 
With water changes, the more the better is my rule.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

I change 50-75% of my 100 gallon tank every 2-3 days.


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## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

why_spyder said:


> I change 50-75% of my 100 gallon tank every 2-3 days.


thats alot of water to change every 3 days! is there i system or somthing that makes water changes alot more easy. is it safe to add declorinator then water after into your tank?


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

The only system I use consists of three 5 gallon buckets, a siphon, and my manual labor. :lol:

If possible I recommend adding dechlorinator to the water before going into the tank (I don't use dechlorinator but the bucket system I use would allow easy use of it).


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## duaneS (Aug 31, 2006)

There are plenty of auto/semi auto ways of doing water changes, it just depends on the placement of your tanks in your home. Using the Python is one. But DIY can be fun and satisfying.
I put an out PVC line from my sump, and use the pump in my sump to send water either to the laundry tubs or out to the garden. I then turn off the out flow, and open another valve and water goes from tap, to tanks, while a drip of dechlorinater is added at the point the water enters. 
I can lose 100 gallons of old water and replace it in less than 30 minutes.
PVC is easy to work with 
And the design is not really complicated, as a side, the proccess could teach you a bit of plumbing technique. My tanks are in the basement though.


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## kingpoiuy (Jun 9, 2008)

That's insane spyder!

Maybe i'm missing something but my fish seem fine, but if there are some other test's that need to be done besides the typical Nitrates etc then please let me know.

I use a typical test strip every week and If anything looks like it's getting out of hand I do a water change. Even if it doesn't look bad I have to vacuum so that replaces some water too.

*fightingfish* I have a drain under my tank that goes to my house drain and I have a water output in my fish room that comes from my house water.


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## riffraffxl (Aug 2, 2007)

why_spyder said:


> The only system I use consists of three 5 gallon buckets, a siphon, and my manual labor. :lol:


Good heavens, I could never do that. Typically I run a syphon from my tank to the outside patio drain using my python, then refill my tank using the python as well. No more heavy lifting.

Well, on the plus side you must have huge muscles...


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## duaneS (Aug 31, 2006)

why_spyder's water change regime is excellent, as opposed to insane. Many discus breeders change 100% of their water every day, to maintain optimum growth. 
There are many tests available, but expensive, and we know, what is in the soup.
As opposed to spending time and money testing, I find it is easier to spend that time watching the fish while making a water change. 
Fish are pretty tolerant creatures and will "exist" in less than optimum conditions.
Maybe because my job is a water anaylist, and it makes me a bit anal. 
But because I test water all day, I see what's in it, and think the best we can do for our fish is give them an optimum atmosphere to live in.
It kind of like if you were confined to a small bedroom 24/7 with only recirulated air, and were allowed to open a window for 10 minutes once a week.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

why_spyder said:


> The only system I use consists of three 5 gallon buckets, a siphon, and my manual labor. Laugh Out Loud


I bow to your dedication 

I have a garden hose that I only use for fish. I hook it up outside, secure one end in the tank, turn the water on pretty low for 30 seconds to prime it then turn it off and disconnect it. I use the water coming out of the hose to water the bushes and they get to use the nitrates for food. Lastly I add prime and fill it back up with the hose. For this step I hook up a sprayer so I can turn it off at the right level without dashing outside.


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## riffraffxl (Aug 2, 2007)

duaneS said:


> why_spyder's water change regime is excellent, as opposed to insane.


I agree, the water change schedule is not insane. It's the lack of python that is. 

And yes, props to you for your dedication. I think I'd be tempted to construct a continuous drip system if I had to do a change every 2-3 days.



> Maybe i'm missing something but my fish seem fine, but if there are some other test's that need to be done besides the typical Nitrates etc then please let me know


I'm sure your fish are fine. Some fish are more finnicky than other though. For instance, I actually do know a breeder of discus, and she does 90% changes every day. They are very unforgiving when it comes to water quality. It is, imho, a waste of time to test for trace elements (for my fish at least).

LONG MUSINGS AHEAD 
Really, you shouldn't necessarily feel inadequate after comparing water changes. Whether someone does 90% daily or 50% every 2 weeks doesn't tell us much; how much/often to change depends on stocking levels and feeding. Eiher could be excessive given the stocking levels.

The one thing that bugs me is that I believe nitrates in Lake Malawi are close to 0. This doesn't make me feel very good; it suggests that I should do way more water changes. On the other hand all the fish in my tank are breeding, males are in full colour, and I have around 10 fry hiding in nooks and crannies, some of which are now over an inch. I think a level of 10-30ppm is acceptable but everyone has to draw a line somewhere, and as a law student with a busy schedule, this is where I drew it.

In fact originally my goal was 20ppm for nitrates (at the end of the week), but I had to reduce feedings to obtain this amount, and the increased aggression led to dead fish! Instead I increased the amount changed and now feed more and accept a slighly higher level of nitrates. I'm tempted to go to 80% changes but I'm a little wary about it.

And before the hybrid police get me, no, I'm not gonna sell the fry.


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## duaneS (Aug 31, 2006)

Along with my 20% every other day water changes, I maintain a planted sump on each bank of tanks,








and protein skimming on each bank, I know some don't believe it works in fresh water, you can't prove it by me.
















My nitrates test between 2 & 5 ppm, I test weekly.


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## narhay (Feb 28, 2007)

20% is fine. If you notice your water quality decreasing, increase the level of water changes. Just be sure to use a vacuum attachment to clean your sand/gravel as there is a lot of detritus that accumulates there.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

I will probably get a better system put together in the future - but the buckets haven't killed me yet. :lol: If I had more than one or two tanks - it would be a much different story.


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## gtsum (Feb 25, 2008)

wow, I am obviously in the minority here..I do water changes (about 40-50%) every 2-3 weeks on my 75G. I have 19 fish in there and run 2 C360 filters with spraybars and a PH to move things up down low. I quit testing my water regularly because I would test it each week and everything was zero (no ammonia, no nitrate, no nitrite, and PH a stable 8-8.2). I do have anubias, sword, and java fern in there, and my nitrates are usually around 10-20 after a couple of weeks (when I do the water change). I really think it depends on your bio load, your filtration, and own specific situation..I cannot image doing 2-4 water changes a week..I like the aquarium and all, but that would make me say to heck with it...YMMV


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

gtsum said:


> I cannot image doing 2-4 water changes a week..I like the aquarium and all, but that would make me say to heck with it...YMMV


For me - the enjoyment is seeing how excited the fish get when they see the siphon hose come out and into the tank. Males goin' crazy, females goin' crazy - everyone's in the mood for love! :lol:


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## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

dont mean to offend anyone but i think most people who do water changes two or three times a week are Fanatical if most people had to do that people would not be in the hobby it would just get Annoying but thats my opionion you guys can do what you think is best. :roll:


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

fightingfish said:


> dont mean to offend anyone but i think most people who do water changes two or three times a week are Fanatical if most people had to do that people would not be in the hobby it would just get Annoying but thats my opionion you guys can do what you think is best. :roll:


I'm not offended - I'll agree its a bit fanatical. Some of us just get more excited about the hobby than others.

If most people had to what I do - I agree most people wouldn't do it. But its not really a need for me to such waterchanges - I just find the fish enjoy it more. I would compare it to pampering a dog or cat - its not necessary but you do it for your enjoyment and theirs.


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## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

i see what you mean and i congratulate you for your hard work! :thumb: however i dont have the time to always do water changes and i always do them at least once a week.


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

We do 60% weekly changes. I used to lug water back and forth to the sink until I found a better way:

The door to our front porch is a mere 25 feet away, so I siphon the gravel vac into a bucket, and then siphon the bucket (fish poop and all!) out the front door!  The bucket is useful because the gravel vac doesn't do well with barbed fittings on it, and I guess the bucket provides a "trap" should you suck up a tetra or two. :wink:

To get the siphon going out of the bucket, just hold the output of the gravel vac against the "input" of the long hose to the front door, and then you're off! I siphon down to a mark on the tank that I measured to be 40 gallons (on our 75g).

For filling, we have another long length of tubing, a jug, and a 160g/h submersible pump (from the LFS). Put one end of the tubing in the tank and the other on the pump, put the pump in the jug, and then put the jug in the sink... turn on the sink (after adding water conditioner)... then fire up the pump... and it's a poor man's python thingy. (our kitchen sink is weird, so no python for us anyway)

I learned the hard way that if the tubing falls out of the tank while filling, the wife will kill you. :lol:

-Ryan


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

gtsum said:


> wow, I am obviously in the minority here..I do water changes (about 40-50%) every 2-3 weeks on my 75G. I have 19 fish in there and run 2 C360 filters with spraybars and a PH to move things up down low. I quit testing my water regularly because I would test it each week and everything was zero (no ammonia, no nitrate, no nitrite, and PH a stable 8-8.2). I do have anubias, sword, and java fern in there, and my nitrates are usually around 10-20 after a couple of weeks (when I do the water change). I really think it depends on your bio load, your filtration, and own specific situation..I cannot image doing 2-4 water changes a week..I like the aquarium and all, but that would make me say to heck with it...YMMV


I stopped testing my water too. Same old, same old, every time. Do get one of those spiffy Mardel "Live NH3" ammonia meters. Saved our butt big time when the biological filtration crashed this past week while treating the tank with meds for a fungus outbreak.

-Ryan


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