# Feeding difficulties with Red Devil



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

I've got a nine month old solo 6 inch Red Devil in a 75g. I want to get him to be a beast, but he's been a very picky eater lately. That's all I've been feeding him is Hikari cichlid gold since I got him and would like to add freeze dried Tetra Jumbokrill to his diet. Now he only eats a few pellets of Hikari cichlid gold and leaves the rest on top. I skipped a day of feeding and he still only eats a few pellets.

A worker at a fish store who is a fish expert convinced me to try Tetra jumbokrill freeze dried jumbo shrimp as an alterative and said Red Devils love this food 9 times out of 10. I fed it Tetra jumbokrill the last few days and he won't eat it.

1. Should I just continue to wait until he gets hungry enough to eat the Tetra jumbokrill?

2. How many days can he go without food and will he eventually just eat whatever I put in there or will he starve to death?


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## FIN01 (Jan 19, 2010)

It will not die of starvation. It will eventually have to eat. As far as the time it may take, I am not too sure. They can go a significant amount of time without eating, so the point in which it actually feels hungry and wants the food you offer isn't too well defined. I would say give it at least 2 or 3 days before you should try to feed it. If it looks like it really wants food before then, then you of course should feed it. Good luck.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

FIN01 said:


> It will not die of starvation. It will eventually have to eat. As far as the time it may take, I am not too sure. They can go a significant amount of time without eating, so the point in which it actually feels hungry and wants the food you offer isn't too well defined. I would say give it at least 2 or 3 days before you should try to feed it. If it looks like it really wants food before then, then you of course should feed it. Good luck.


Thank you. I will follow your advice.


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## sjwrx (Apr 15, 2009)

somewhat similar to my RD. Wont eat after a water change, or will take a bit but spit it out, after about 2 days of not eating, it will eat again. But she's only like that with pellets, if i threw in a cube of blood worms, it would not hesitate to eat it all.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

It's been 3 days now since my Red Devil has eaten. But I know he's hungry because he's coming to the surface looking for food. This morning I put in a piece of Tetra jumbokrill freeze dried shrimp. He came to the top, looked at it then swam away. After about 10 minutes I took the piece of Tetra jumbokrill out of the tank. He is really playing stubborn. I'll try again tomorrow.


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## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

dont try again tomorrow try something else go buy some brine shrimp or some flakes


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## homerl (Jan 6, 2009)

I'd still try the pellets as that should be his main diet,and the other foods as a treat. :thumb:


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## auratum (Jul 6, 2006)

What is your water temperature? I have had fish act like this if the water is on the cooler side - low 70's. I warmed the tank temp up towards 80 and the fish became way more active and ate like crazy. Not saying that is your problem, just thought I would share this as a possibility.

Good luck!
Patrick


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi *uncleholmes*,

I would try giving your RD some competition, put in a few convicts or some giant danios, or any other fish you think can survive with your RD. This of course would not be long term. (Not sure if this was already suggested, so my apologies if it was).

Pic Please.

Thanks,
Matt


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## Dook (May 13, 2009)

have you thought maybe something else is going on? what do his feces look like?


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## Chiquita (May 4, 2010)

Is he eating yet????


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

auratum said:


> What is your water temperature? I have had fish act like this if the water is on the cooler side - low 70's. I warmed the tank temp up towards 80 and the fish became way more active and ate like crazy. Not saying that is your problem, just thought I would share this as a possibility.
> 
> Good luck!
> Patrick


I keep the water at 80 degrees all the time. I have the 110 AquaClear filter. I'm aware of the beneficial bacteria and only rinse the foam filter insert in aquarium water, change the foam filter insert about every 6 months, change the biomax insert about every year and don't use carbon. I do 50-75% water changes every other week. I add Aquasafe to the new water that I put in. I had my water tested at the fish store and they said it was very good quality water.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

mlancaster said:


> Hi *uncleholmes*,
> 
> I would try giving your RD some competition, put in a few convicts or some giant danios, or any other fish you think can survive with your RD. This of course would not be long term. (Not sure if this was already suggested, so my apologies if it was).
> 
> ...


Thank you for the suggestion. I was thinking of trying that. One thing though. If I put in giant danios, do they require their own food and diet? Or would they be ok eating whatever my Red Devil eats?


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

Dook said:


> have you thought maybe something else is going on? what do his feces look like?


I've thought about that. The thing is though that other than not eating he's acting like a normal Red Devil. He digs all day, bangs against the glass. As far as the feces it looks normal.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

Chiquita said:


> Is he eating yet????


It's now 1am Wednesday morning. I'm an odd sleeper by the way. I just put in a mini-cube of frozen bloodworms. My Red Devil swam to the surface, got within an inch of the bloodworms and then swam away. I waited 5 minutes then took the cube out as it started breaking apart. This is going on day 4 now. He is really being stubborn now.


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## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

I know... Maybe try putting a female in the tank with him... if u can that is.


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi *uncleholmes*,

The Danios should be fine eating whatever your RD eats, especially when you put in the frozen cubes. They will not be able to eat the pellets, so perhaps throw in a few flakes with the pellets. However once your RD is eating, he should be making a mess and the danios can clean up what comes out of his gills.

From your recent post, it sounds like your RD is pretty aggressive (i.e. glass banging); therefore, the giant danios may not work out in which case you may need to try the convict (i would do two females, should be inexpensive from LFS or free from fellow hobbyist). I have also herd of people keeping bucktooth tetras with RDs, they are mean fast little guys.

Thanks,
Matt


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

mlancaster said:


> Hi *uncleholmes*,
> 
> The Danios should be fine eating whatever your RD eats, especially when you put in the frozen cubes. They will not be able to eat the pellets, so perhaps throw in a few flakes with the pellets. However once your RD is eating, he should be making a mess and the danios can clean up what comes out of his gills.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the suggestion. I'll look into the two Convicts and bucktooth tetras.


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## homerl (Jan 6, 2009)

Bucktooth tetras I believe are exodons,which I have in all my tanks


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

homerl said:


> Bucktooth tetras I believe are exodons,which I have in all my tanks


Thank you for clarifying that.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

It's day 5 now and My Red Devil still hasn't eaten. I put in a frozen mini-cube of bloodworms this morning. This time he didn't even come to the surface. I don't know where he's getting his energy from because he keeps banging the glass. I'm considering buying a few Convicts, Giant Danios or Exodons tomorrow and putting them in the tank if I get time.


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## GirDance (May 14, 2010)

I have had issues with a Devil in the past being a picky eater and it is typically due to stress... Have kept about 45 though various stages.

I would suggest only ever doing a 25% water change at a time, and no more than once every week and a half to two weeks.

What size of the hikari gold pellets are you using? I found the best luck using a mix of the mini gold with mini excel and bio gold. Some of the pellets will sink, some will float and I have found that some devils develop a preference.

Also, try giving him a little bit of zucchini or well washed spinach, although carnivorous I have found that they will actually eat just about anything.

Do you have anywhere in the tank for him to hide and chill out if he wants? I haven't seen any mention of the aquascaping you have set up but it could be as simple as too much open water... I have also found that my devils did best with low light situations...

If all else fails... Try sacrificing a small tetra or fry if you can get your hands on it, he should pursue it and hopefully make a nice snack out of that.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

GirDance said:


> I have had issues with a Devil in the past being a picky eater and it is typically due to stress... Have kept about 45 though various stages.
> 
> I would suggest only ever doing a 25% water change at a time, and no more than once every week and a half to two weeks.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the suggestions.

I'll consider doing 25% instead of 50-75% water changes.

I've been using medium sized cichlid gold pellets. But I do have some mini pellets too. I'll try the mini pellets next time I feed him cichlid gold.

I'll try zucchini or spinach if he eats it.

I have an extra large clay flower pot that has openings on both sides. He hides in there all the time. I have a standard aquarium light.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

I put in 10 rosy red minnows this evening. My Red Devil did eat one of them. As of now I think I'll keep the other 9 in the tank unless many people say otherwise. I am somewhat concerned about the rosy reds carrying diseases. But the fish store where I bought them at have extremely well maintained, clean tanks including their bait tanks. They said I shouldn't have to worry about diseases.

Another benefit I've noticed with live bait is the psychological affect on my Red Devil. It's almost like he welcomes the company. He's more active now and comes out of his cave more to chase the rosy reds away. But I'm still keeping an eye on his eating. He's still only eaten 1 rosy red in 5 days.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

uncleholmes said:


> I put in 10 rosy red minnows this evening.
> 
> He's still only eaten 1 rosy red in 5 days.


There are no rosy reds. I woke up this morning and 5 were found dead and he must have eaten the other 4. Next feeding I'll try cichlid gold pellets. I went to the fish store today and they were out of giant danios.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Now you have to worry about your fish wanting live feeders all the time.
I fed 1 of my RD's live feeders as treats, I find he doesn't care for them anymore(luckily).
He like to play/stress them out until they die, & he might eat the smallest feeder.
I breed my own cons for feeders BTW.

I like to use Hikari gold,Bio gold, & NLS Thera A+.
I'm still on the fence on using Grand Sumo, I may get some in the future because I find Hikari really makes my room smell like garlic/dead fish.
My fish love it so I continue to use it, but since Hikari had stop shipping to my part of the company I'm looking for another type of food, & I think Grand Sumo might be it.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

Leucistic Guy said:


> Now you have to worry about your fish wanting live feeders all the time.
> I fed 1 of my RD's live feeders as treats, I find he doesn't care for them anymore(luckily).
> He like to play/stress them out until they die, & he might eat the smallest feeder.
> I breed my own cons for feeders BTW.
> ...


Even though my Red Devil ate some feeders, I still won't have a peace of mind until he starts eating like he used to which was pellets every morning. I took my Red Devil and a water sample to the fish store. The fish expert there took my Red Devil out of the 5 gallon bucket, layed him on a towel and examined for any signs of parasites or diseases. He said the Red Devil didn't show any signs of diseases.

When he tested my water sample he said my ph and ammonia were good but that my nitrites were slightly elevated to 0.25 ppm. He said that could be the reason why he is stressed out and not eating much. He suggested I do a 50% water change when I got home and to not leave any uneaten food in the tank. I ended up buying an ammonia and nitrite test kit.

Before I did my water change, I tested the water. The ammonia and nitrites were at 0 ppm, which is the lowest level you can get. So I'm not sure why his test said my nitrates were slightly high. But either way I'm glad I did the water change.

I'm considering doing a 50% water change every week like I used to. Ever since I changed to changing the water every two weeks I've had this feeding problem. This didn't happen right away. It happened about a few months after this change. I'm not completely sure this is the cause of the feeding problem. But I've got a hunch it is. I'll resume feeding him pellets tomorrow and see what happens. If he doesn't eat any food I'll make sure I take it out of the tank.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

Updating my red devil feeding situation.

I did a 50% water change on Sat. My 10 inch red devil in a 75g ate 4 medium sized cichlid gold on Monday and Tuesday.

I did another 50% water change today (Wed). That makes two 50% water changes in 4 days. I'll do another 50% water change this weekend. That should eliminate any bad water problems that might have occured. The water looks crystal clear. I tested the water and the ammonia and nitrites were at zero. I skipped the feeding today.

My goal is to feed my red devil frozen bloodworms as a snack, not as an every day food. The hikari cichlid gold will eventually be the every day food. I tried feeding him frozen bloodworms 3 times last week without any success.

My question is how many days should I skip feeding before trying frozen bloodworms again?

Please no comments on feeding different pellets. I don't want to feed different pellets.


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

The pellets are fine for everyday. I wouldn't use the bloodworms though---too many horror stories from fairly reliable sources.

Instead, use some kind of frozen shrimp----Krill, grocery store shrimp(cut to size), etc. They are much more nutritious, and will brighten the colors of your RD.


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## Chiquita (May 4, 2010)

Hmm, what a stubbprn devil. Keep trying the pellets. Put them in and hide, lol. Seriously. See if that works. Some cichlids won't eat at first in front of you. :roll:


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

a problem with too much live feeding is that they become addicted to live prey and wont eat the pellets
happened with my tertal and some other fish 
and my tertal got sick and couldnt catch the fish and wouldnt eat the dried pellets and blood worm and tragically died


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Try NLS Thera A+ sinking.
Maybe your fish doesn't like getting food from the top.
He could be gulping in air as he grabs the food from the surface, which might make him feel full.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

Chiquita said:


> Hmm, what a stubbprn devil. Keep trying the pellets. Put them in and hide, lol. Seriously. See if that works. Some cichlids won't eat at first in front of you. :roll:


I gave in again. My original plan was to wait one whole week without feeding and then trying bloodworms. Today (Sat.), after skipping feeding for 4 days, I put in 10 medium sized hikari cichlid gold pellets and he immediately started eating them. He ate 7 of them. I took out the last 3.

It's not that he won't eat the pellets. It's just that it bugs me that he won't eat treats such as frozen bloodworms or freeze dried krill. Other people who have red devils say that their fish devour frozen bloodworms.

Should I just continue feeding him pellets everyday and accept that he doesn't eat treats?

Or should I keep on trying different treats such as crickets, earthworms...?

If I try different treats, should I skip feeding again to get him hungry?

Or should I continue to feed pellets every day or every other day and try the treats in between feedings?


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## wpk22 (Jan 17, 2010)

i just got a red devil and it doesnt eat anything but pellets and flakes. it wont touch krill or bloodworms.

in fact my dempseys and salvini wont touch krill along with my red devil

i always thought fish love krill


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Glad to hear he eating again.

Just stick to pellets.
If he doesn't touch the treats, save the $$$ for something else.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

Leucistic Guy said:


> Glad to hear he eating again.
> 
> Just stick to pellets.
> If he doesn't touch the treats, save the $$$ for something else.


Thanks. I fed him pellets twice Sat and he ate them both times. This morning (Sun) I fed him and he ate. I think the eating crisis is over.

I've just been putting in 3 or 4 pellets at a time. If he comes up to eat them, I wait until he finishes and comes back up for more. If he doesn't come back up for more then I don't feed any more.

I did a 50% water change this evening. That's three 50% water changes in 8 days. That should eliminate any bad water issues. From here on out I think I'll do a 50% water change every week instead of every two weeks.

I've also been adding a full capfull of aquasafe water conditioner to each 5 gallon bucket of new water to the aquarium. A full capfull is good for 20 gallons. I figure the extra aquasafe will help with any stress that my fish might be experiencing. Does that sound right?


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## sjwrx (Apr 15, 2009)

good to hear he's eating again.

With my RD, he only comes up to eat once, if he doesnt come up he won't take any pellets or flakes for that matter, even the sinking ones. BUT when i melt a cube of bloodworms and pour it in he will go hyper mode and catch each bloodworm. lol.


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## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

sjwrx said:


> good to hear he's eating again.
> 
> With my RD, he only comes up to eat once, if he doesnt come up he won't take any pellets or flakes for that matter, even the sinking ones. BUT when i melt a cube of bloodworms and pour it in he will go hyper mode and catch each bloodworm. lol.


Interesting. I never tried melting the bloodworms before I put them in. I just put in the frozen mini cube right from the freezer and he never ate it.

Do you think he would eat the bloodworms if I melted them first?


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## sjwrx (Apr 15, 2009)

Would'nt hurt to give it a try. My RD would never come up to grab the cube, well atleast 75% of the time. Just melt it with the tank water. Good luck =)


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

oscars are so much easier to feed!!!!!! i traded mine in was getting too big for the tank but he would take the whole blood worm cube in his mouth and would eat another 3 until he stopped begging


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