# DIY sump return plumbing



## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

For those of you that have DIY sumps, what kind of tubing do you use for the return line? I'm using a Quiet One 4000 as my pump, but haven't seen any flexible tubing for the return. I know I could plumb it back to the tank using PVC, but would prefer the tubing if possible.

Where did you get yours, and how much was it?

Off the top of my head, I need 1", but I'm not sure.

Thanks.


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## Steve St.Laurent (Oct 2, 2008)

I used 1" clear tubing for the drain and feed lines on my sump. I used a slipxslip bulkhead and glued a pvc street elbow into the bulkhead and then used a 1" slip x 1" barb fitting to attach the tubing to.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Where did you get yours, and how much was it?


You can get this stuff at most home improvement stores in the plumbing dept. I don't recall what they 
charge, but just for a point of reference, here's an online source. 1" ID is .86 per foot. Probably priced 
about the same in retail stores. Sometimes I find it's even cheaper. When you save on shipping, it's 
definitely cheaper. You can also find black flexible tubing and flexible PVC. Stores that sell hot tubs 
should have the flex PVC.


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

I'm in HD about every third day, and have never noticed it there. Guess I need to open my eyes a little more :lol: Either that or check with the local hardware store.

Thanks for the link.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I plumb mine partially with rigid pvc, then have a barb fitting with a couple feet of flexible tubing go actually go to the pump. This way I can move the pump around and pull it out of the water for service easier. I also got mine at HD and its pretty cheap.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

tannable75 said:


> I plumb mine partially with rigid pvc, then have a barb fitting with a couple feet of flexible tubing go actually go to the pump. This way I can move the pump around and pull it out of the water for service easier. I also got mine at HD and its pretty cheap.


Thats my preferred method as well. Especially because with the wider diameter vinyl tubing its very hard to keep it from kinking. It seems like it always retains the shape it had when it was rolled up in the store.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> It seems like it always retains the shape it had when it was rolled up in the store.


I hate that too. The other complaint I have with the barb fittings is that you get a narrowing at those 
fittings that you don't get if you just go either with rigid or flex pvc. You have to watch unions too if you use 
them . Some are narrower inside than others of the same size. Different manufacturers make them 
differently. Matters only if you're trying to eke out every gph that you can.


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

I too prefer the hard plumbing with a barb and short piece of tubing to the pump. I also go one size up on the hard line then what the outlet size is on the pump. You get more gph of flow because of less friction from the sidewalls of the pipe.


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

Haven't bee able to find a good quality tubing at the hardware store. Either too thin or too thick. Very maddening. Finally just ordered the Eheim brand tubing from Fosters Smith.


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## ccrider (Sep 5, 2008)

menards carrys different sizes


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

iceblue said:


> I too prefer the hard plumbing with a barb and short piece of tubing to the pump. I also go one size up on the hard line then what the outlet size is on the pump. You get more gph of flow because of less friction from the sidewalls of the pipe.


Thats a good idea. I don't know why I didn't think about that. At the same time I wish you didn't, because now I am tempted to "redo" what I have. Although its hard to say what the benefit would be. I am not sure what the correlation is between smaller diameter pipe/tube and less flow. I would think the pump would dictate flow more than the pipe size, of course within reason.

Also, getting the tubing from a fish supply place may not be a bad idea. There is a pet version of Costco that I go to for dog food, and a few weeks ago I noticed they also sell the vinyl tubing, but its in a different packaging. It seems to have less of the permanently bent effect that you find in Home Depot and Lowes.


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## sjlchgo (Mar 2, 2008)

See next post


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## sjlchgo (Mar 2, 2008)

This is how I connected my pump to the pvc. I used 1" and my pump has a max return of 977 gph. I have a 1-1/2" overflow and in hind site I would have used 3/4" pvc because the return was much faster than the overflow. Lowe's has a nice selection of tubing also.


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

boredatwork said:


> iceblue said:
> 
> 
> > I too prefer the hard plumbing with a barb and short piece of tubing to the pump. I also go one size up on the hard line then what the outlet size is on the pump. You get more gph of flow because of less friction from the sidewalls of the pipe.
> ...


You may have seen this calculator before. Up the size of your pipe diameter in the appropriate area to see if it will make a noticeable difference in your flow. It may be a worthwhile project that really doesn't cost much in the way of materials.
http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

Here is a good mathematical version of the above calculator. I'm no math genius but some of the charts are very helpful.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... turejp.htm

Another thing I did was use a Dremel with a barrel sander to massage the openings of the pipe 
so when the pipe is put into a fitting there is a smooth transition from the lip of the pipe to the landing inside the fitting. Weather it helps with flow or not I don't know. I'm sure it couldn't hurt.


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## Biotoper (Apr 14, 2006)

IMO flex pvc is much better than using clear or black plastic tubing if your sump has bulkheads. I used plastic tubing on my 20g reef for the overflow and return to an unplumbed DIY sump, but use hard pvc and flex pvc on my 100g and 50g rubbermaid sump with bulkheads. On the 100g I have a bulkhead on the sump for the return flow - on the inside of the sump I have pvc fittings connecting the pump to the bulkhead: Male thread x slip (3/4 or 1" depending on the pump), short piece of pvc, slipxslip union to easily remove the pump, short piece of pvc, bulkhead. I prefer to use 1" for everything, so if your pump is 3/4" use a 3/4 x 1" adaptor (Quite One 4000 is 1" so no prob). None of these are glued, since they're all submerged. Outside the sump I have short pvc, slipxslip 90 elbow, flex pvc going up and looping over into the tank to a manifold (my sump is only about 1' below and to the side of the display - if your sump is directly below, I would use a straight hard pvc piece going up). These all need to be hard plumbed with pvc primer and glue. I also include on the return pipe a T piece, ball valve, and pipe going back to the sump. This allows me to easily control the amount of flow going to the display or quickly divert it completely without shutting off the pump. I don't like to use a ball valve in-line with the pump to reduce flow - I feel the back-pressure would reduce the life of the pump, whether it's true or not.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

iceblue said:


> You may have seen this calculator before. Up the size of your pipe diameter in the appropriate area to see if it will make a noticeable difference in your flow. It may be a worthwhile project that really doesn't cost much in the way of materials.
> http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php


I have seen that site. That second link was also really good too. I have used the calculator before but I didn't think to use it to compare pipe thickness, I have only used it for head height and for number of fittings. Apparently the pipe diameter makes a big difference as far as flow goes. I figured there would be a difference but I wasnt expecting as big as the one it calculated. For a Rio2100 and a simple setup I got these numbers:

0.75" --> 218GPH
1.00" --> 255GPH
1.25" --> 275GPH
1.50" --> 281GPH

The Rio uses a 3/4" outlet, so its interesting to see the flow increase past the native size. However, the question I just though of is, does it automatically take into account a reducing coupling at the ouptut if the pipe size is not equal to the pumps output size? Who knows, but it looks like the optimium size is double, or a little less than double, the pumps output size.

Maybe I will put another item on my to do list...


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

In case anyone is interested, mostly the lurkers and future searchers :lol: , I found clear tubing at HD, in the next aisle over from the PVC stuff. I made a spray bar from PVC, and connected the tubing to the spray bar, and will be setting up the trial run tonight or tomorrow. Just in case anyone is interested.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Follow up to close the loop is always good. :thumb: Let us know how your tests go.


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

Argh. So I put everything together, and fired it up. For some unexplained reason, the overflows kept losing their siphon, although the spray bar worked well...if a bit too well. LOTS of pressure. I'm gonna need a few more holes, and probably some fish that like a bit of current :lol: :lol:

Anyway, long story short, BOTH brand new check valves failed. I have two over flows for redundancy, and neither of them would hold siphon. I traced it to the valves, and yanked the old (but really brand new :x ) valves out. Turned out they were poorly designed, and a piece of debris got into the valve, and was too big to pass through, and simply held the valve open. That explained the air leak quite nicely :?

New check valves are in place, silicone is drying, and tomorrow or Saturday night will be test run v. 2.0.


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