# New Tropheus tank



## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

Hello All,

I want to set up a tank for Duboisi and 2 other kinds of Tropheus, I wanted to inquire about certain things;
a)Which other tropheus are recommended as tank mates for Duboisi
b)How many can I keep? (55g tank)
c)What kind of rock and sand should I use?
d)Should I get them all at once?

I have gone through much of this site and I find it very informative, I apologize about the long list but I just want to provide the best possible home for my Tropheus.
:thumb: :fish: :thumb:


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## 7armz (Dec 17, 2002)

You need at least a 75g for just a single species of tropheus to form a functional colony. JMO


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## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

7armz said:


> You need at least a 75g for just a single species of tropheus to form a functional colony. JMO


If I had a dollar for every time someone suggests a different tank size for tropheus then I would have money to turn my house into a lake


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

I would agree on the 75-gallon minimum. Certainly it is always "possible" to keep fish in smaller tanks than the recommended minimum, but it's not good husbandry and, in my opinion, it shows a lack of concern for the well-being of the fish. You asked for advice to "provide the best possible home for my Tropheus." The advice given was entirely correct according to people with the most experience keeping and breeding Tropheus. I actually think that a 180-gallon tank would be best if one wanted to provide the best possible home for three different colonies of Tropheus.


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## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

scrubjay said:


> I would agree on the 75-gallon minimum. Certainly it is always "possible" to keep fish in smaller tanks than the recommended minimum, but it's not good husbandry and, in my opinion, it shows a lack of concern for the well-being of the fish. You asked for advice to "provide the best possible home for my Tropheus." The advice given was entirely correct according to people with the most experience keeping and breeding Tropheus. I actually think that a 180-gallon tank would be best if one wanted to provide the best possible home for three different colonies of Tropheus.


Fair enough then, my local aquarium expert, whose work and skill one can appreciate by viewing his show tanks full of healthy fish, recommended this setup. Not to discredit anyone but there are thousands of different views and I do not believe that anyone wanting to keep tropheus needs an 180 gallon tank or else... not everyone has the space for such monstruosity and I find it very elitist to just shut out a new member instead of trying to recommend something suitable for the set up presented.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

Sorry, I did not mean to shut you out. It was the "three kinds" that mainly concerned me, because ideally you would have groups of at least 15-20 of each species. If keeping just one species in a 55-gallon, I would begin with 15-20 small, tank-raised juveniles, some being extras in case of needing to adjust sex ratios, take out bullied members, etc. Avoid wild-caught for this setup--the F1s and F2s are just as colorful and will be easier to keep in a smaller tank.

Since fish are pretty addictive, I'm betting it won't be long before you have a few more tanks, monstrosities or not :wink:


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## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

scrubjay said:


> Sorry, I did not mean to shut you out. It was the "three kinds" that mainly concerned me, because ideally you would have groups of at least 15-20 of each species. If keeping just one species in a 55-gallon, I would begin with 15-20 small, tank-raised juveniles, some being extras in case of needing to adjust sex ratios, take out bullied members, etc. Avoid wild-caught for this setup--the F1s and F2s are just as colorful and will be easier to keep in a smaller tank.
> 
> Since fish are pretty addictive, I'm betting it won't be long before you have a few more tanks, monstrosities or not :wink:


Thank you for your time scrubjay, I will place an order for tank raised juvies this weekend (no more than 20 :wink: ), I am very excited I have always had pets but this is the first time I find myself loving fish. So in regards to tank mates, what would you do?.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

I think some have been successful in keeping smaller colonies too, so maybe they will pipe up. One other thing that will help with aggression is good circulation and even a fairly strong current. These fish are adapted to living in surge habitat and they need the higher dissolved oxygen too.
There are some good articles in this section of the library:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/tropheus_corner.php

People often keep a pair of Tanganyikan gobies with Tropheus:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=10
The most popular seems to be _Eretmodus cyanostictus_. They will need rocks for their territory.

A group of about 3-4 _Synodontis petricola_ would be another good choice. They are a smaller species of catfish from Lake Tanganyika.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I believe that you are basing some of your opinion on the advice you have had for a 55 gallon aquarium, as a starter aquarium for multiple Tropheus species together. That is, for an aquarium for someone new to Tropheus.

Tropheus are not always the easiest fish to keep alive, prone to bloat and other stress related issues. Once you become experienced in keeping Tropheus, and treating illnesses, it certainly can be said that they can be kept in smaller tanks than that recommended for beginners.

I've seen Tropheus bred in 3ft, 50 gallon aquariums, by a few expert breeders. Having said that, I've seen the same experts suddently have the aquarium crash, and lost most of the Tropheus. Aquarists who have 20 years + of experience understand that this happens some times, and are not likely to have their participation in the hobby affected by such a loss.

However, you recommend the bare minimum that has "sometimes" been successful for very experienced aquarists, then there isn't much room for margin of error for the beginner Tropheus keeper.

There will always be words left out of sentences, that are assumed. It is (recommended) that the minimum tank size to keep a colony of Tropheus (for the beginner) is 75 gallons. If you go smaller, there could be more aggression related issues and stress related issues. At this stage, if a fish is being picked on in a larger tank, there is more room to escape and hide, until you become experienced in identifying this. In a smaller tank, odds are it is dead before you notice.

The larger the tank, the more stable the parameters and conditions. The bioload on a 75 gallon might work out fine, but in a 55 gallon, the same load could cause a spike in water parameters such as ammonia and nitrates, which could quickly become lethal.

Of course, you could say, it's a smaller tank... I'll keep less fish. Sure, but then the object with Tropheus is to have lots to spread around the aggression. You start with 12-14 in the 55 gallon, instead of the 18-20 in the 75 gallon... you lose a couple due to startup, learning about behaviour, then you don't have enough to spread out the aggression, and your down to just a few. Adding youngsters with adults, to boost the number of the colonies works though... sometimes, but not always.

Are the posters elitist? No, but they want to ensure hobbyists new to a fish, that isn't a beginner fish will have the best chances of success, to ensure they continue in the hobby.

The difference in price between a 55 gallon and 75 gallon aquarium, isn't worth the cost/risk in my opinion, when you are going to stock the tank with hundreds of dollars worth of Tropheus. It is of course your decision, but ultimately understand that the smaller the tank, the greater the risk it won't work out.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

> The difference in price between a 55 gallon and 75 gallon aquarium, isn't worth the cost/risk in my opinion, when you are going to stock the tank with hundreds of dollars worth of Tropheus.


You've got a good point there!

The definition of the word "elite" is "the best or most skilled members of a given social group." In that respect, yes, advice and recommendations on this forum may come from the most experienced and knowledgeable people in the hobby. Some people use the word as if it is a bad thing to be educated or highly skilled. Is it?

I tend to think that this perception is a reflection of your own personal psychology because I have never viewed anyone on the forum as being elitist or arrogant in a negative way. In general, the moderators are going to offer advice that will give you the best chance of success and happiness in your hobby, as based on their experience and knowledge. They may also recommend _optimal _accommodations for species, rather than _minimum _accommodations. Meeting only the minimum requirements of an animal usually means that the animal will experience more stress, more chance of disease, and less chance of thriving and behaving in ways characteristic of the species. I tend to think that the owner's experience will not be as good either. Other hobbyists may join the thread and say that they keep great white sharks in 55-gallon aquariums with no problems. It's up to you to decide what advice you want to follow, how much risk you want to take, and how you will treat living creatures in your care.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Why is this in the Tropheus section and not the Dr. Phil section?
I don't want to read about peoples feelings. :wink:


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Who is the local expert that recomended three different types of Tropheus in a 55g tank?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Blackie10 said:


> Hello All, I just want to provide the best possible home for my Tropheus.
> :thumb: :fish: :thumb:


Well that is not a 55g tank no two ways about it. Sure some folk have got em to adults in a 55g but then some folk have climbed Everest without oxygen. As your first try I can not recommend this way. But I guess you will anyway judging by your answer to an earlier post. Just hope manage to be the one in ten that manages with this far from ideal size of tank. Adding tankmates or having more than one type will reduce your chances further in such a small tank.

All the best James


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

I have 15 Tropheus Duboisi that are a year old in a 55. They went from the 55 to a 75, then back to the 55. I started with 19, but they were male heavy. I think 7f, 12 males, so I took 4 males to the LFS, and moved them back to the 55. They are doing well, and I'll continue to monitor. Many have said that Duboisi are one of the few Trophs that can be kept in a 55. Keep in mind that I have 20+ years of fish keeping experience, even though these are my first Trophs. And, I have the 75 available if I need to switch fish.

So, if you try it, Duboisi only, 25 ideally, and then pull males as you identify. Put them all in at once, after a fishless cycle. Shoot for 3m, 12 f. 2 small rock piles in the tank. I'll try and get some pics this week of the 55.


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## Ripple (Jan 2, 2002)

This topic has been merged with another topic. Some posts have been deleted.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

noddy said:


> Who is the local expert that recomended three different types of Tropheus in a 55g tank?


Must have been me. :lol:


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## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

Floridagirl said:


> I have 15 Tropheus Duboisi that are a year old in a 55. They went from the 55 to a 75, then back to the 55. I started with 19, but they were male heavy. I think 7f, 12 males, so I took 4 males to the LFS, and moved them back to the 55. They are doing well, and I'll continue to monitor. Many have said that Duboisi are one of the few Trophs that can be kept in a 55. Keep in mind that I have 20+ years of fish keeping experience, even though these are my first Trophs. And, I have the 75 available if I need to switch fish.
> 
> So, if you try it, Duboisi only, 25 ideally, and then pull males as you identify. Put them all in at once, after a fishless cycle. Shoot for 3m, 12 f. 2 small rock piles in the tank. I'll try and get some pics this week of the 55.


Thank you, I would love to see your setup :thumb:


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## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

Floridagirl said:


> I have 15 Tropheus Duboisi that are a year old in a 55. They went from the 55 to a 75, then back to the 55. I started with 19, but they were male heavy. I think 7f, 12 males, so I took 4 males to the LFS, and moved them back to the 55. They are doing well, and I'll continue to monitor. Many have said that Duboisi are one of the few Trophs that can be kept in a 55. Keep in mind that I have 20+ years of fish keeping experience, even though these are my first Trophs. And, I have the 75 available if I need to switch fish.
> 
> So, if you try it, Duboisi only, 25 ideally, and then pull males as you identify. Put them all in at once, after a fishless cycle. Shoot for 3m, 12 f. 2 small rock piles in the tank. I'll try and get some pics this week of the 55.


Thank you, I would love to see your setup :thumb:


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

dude in all honesty why even ask if you know people are going to say no, just do it


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## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

24Tropheus said:


> Blackie10 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello All, I just want to provide the best possible home for my Tropheus.
> ...


Whatever man, don't bother replying if you haven't got anything positive to say since I won't bother reading it again so I guess your time is best spent doing anything else.


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## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

cjacob316 said:


> dude in all honesty why even ask if you know people are going to say no, just do it


True enough, really all I wanted to do was to get some feedback, some people are a bit narrow minded, you seem cool though...florida is a sweet place to live by the way.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Blackie10 said:


> 24Tropheus said:
> 
> 
> > Blackie10 said:
> ...


I don't really understand the point of posting this. Thanks for telling us all that you're over the negative feedback. :lol:

GL with your trophs!


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## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

Fogelhund said:


> I believe that you are basing some of your opinion on the advice you have had for a 55 gallon aquarium, as a starter aquarium for multiple Tropheus species together. That is, for an aquarium for someone new to Tropheus.
> 
> Tropheus are not always the easiest fish to keep alive, prone to bloat and other stress related issues. Once you become experienced in keeping Tropheus, and treating illnesses, it certainly can be said that they can be kept in smaller tanks than that recommended for beginners.
> 
> ...


I can fully appreciate the advice of an intelligent person and I understand the members of this forum all have years of experience and expect the laymen to lack all knowledge of animal behavioral patterns, all I wanted is a few tips regarding the setup presented. I can fully guarantee this is not the first or last case, and what is usually regarded as an expert will have had to try all options or else they would not be regarded as such.


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## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

24Tropheus said:


> Blackie10 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello All, I just want to provide the best possible home for my Tropheus.
> ...


British people are wonderful


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

it's just that when you come here you have to understand that most people will only offer up higher probability suggestions, and i know you know you're pushing the envelope. you hinted that you have heard people suggest a minimum 75 many times, which means you at least have to have a feeling that a 55 is pushing it

whether or not you want to take a shot at it is ultimately up to you, and it's probably going to take a lot of work, moving fish around, trying to keep things peaceful, keep the water quality up and so on, and some people, though they may not state it in the correct way, are just trying to save you the trouble. i like challenges sometimes though

good luck with whatever you decide to do, my suggestion would be, if you go with a 55, make sure you have a lot of filtration, minimum weekly water changes, and start with a lot of young fish to increase the chances of them getting along as they mature, make sure you have at least one or two smaller tanks to move fish that are too aggressive to until you can sell them back to the lfs. and make sure that if the number drop you can replace them


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## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

Darkside said:


> Blackie10 said:
> 
> 
> > 24Tropheus said:
> ...


Do you stare at forums all day?


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## Blackie10 (Feb 8, 2010)

scrubjay said:


> > The difference in price between a 55 gallon and 75 gallon aquarium, isn't worth the cost/risk in my opinion, when you are going to stock the tank with hundreds of dollars worth of Tropheus.
> 
> 
> You've got a good point there!
> ...


So what you are trying to say is, I am basically a bad person for even considering this. opcorn:


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## NorthShore (Feb 3, 2006)

Blackie10 said:


> scrubjay said:
> 
> 
> > > The difference in price between a 55 gallon and 75 gallon aquarium, isn't worth the cost/risk in my opinion, when you are going to stock the tank with hundreds of dollars worth of Tropheus.
> ...


I don't see that in scrubjay's post. I think you are merely being argumentative.

What does become very clear in this thread is that you want someone to support what you want to do. Not many people will because of their experiences with tropheus. It's not being narrow minded, its being honest.

You've been given lots of good advice in order to make a good decision for yourself. I am closing this thread down since there is nothing more to be said on the subject.


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