# fish dying can see no reason



## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

Hi...desperate for help..had 6 Geophagus brachybranchus about a year old. About 1 week ago they began to die one each day.i have tested the water and there is no problem what so ever with the results.I have thinned out the sand substrate to elimate bacteria build up. Done 2 water changes around 50%. But they continue to die..now down to the last one. About 2 weeks ago i had to treat the tank for white spot.

Whatever this is its only effecting the geos..tank mates are 5 albion angle fish, small, 5 marble head standers and 10 head and tail tetras...all fine. The tank is 450 uk lts.

I saw what looks like attack marks on one but (a white patch)that is because they are weak i belive.

Has anyone any ideas please..really guttted


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## cdarminio (Mar 29, 2015)

It could've been an internal parasite. Did you add any new fish to the tank or feed them any live foods (anything that would be capable of transmitting diseases)?


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

cdarminio said:


> It could've been an internal parasite. Did you add any new fish to the tank or feed them any live foods (anything that would be capable of transmitting diseases)?


Hi.nothing that i can think of and no not given any live food. Did buy 5 german rams a few weeks back that developed white spot and all but 1 died


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Welcome to C-F. Sorry to hear your troubles.

Can you list your exact tank water parameters? From the tap?
What was their behavior leading up to the deaths?
What did you use to treat white spot, for how long and when did you conclude the treatment?
Did the Geos contract ick from the Rams?
Any recent heavy rainfall or anything different with your water source?


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

Off the top of my head all were ok but ammonia was 0.25 so did a water change, not confident in the api test though.ich was treated as directed 10 days.. bacteria treatment done over 3 days. They just lay on the botton and eventually die...*** noticed fast breathing and just yesterday a clear stringy poo...now thinking internal parasite, but why only the geos? Was no sign of ich on the geos but had to treat whole tank anyway, but now thinking have they passed something else on


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

What did you use to treat white spot?

They start laying on the bottom during or after ick treatment? What is the bacteria treatment?


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

The white spot treatment was wilkinsons own and the bacteria treatment was esha 2000. I wonder if it's only the egos dying that it's something in the sand with them being sand eaters


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

It's unfortunate it happened, and you may never know. My bet would be on the Rams bringing something into the tank. Whether that was the ick itself or some other problem. The fact that your other fish pulled through unharmed indicates that it's most likely not a toxic water issue. Quarantine next time. Lesson learned. I'd let the tank settle out for a month or so and make sure no other problems arise before restocking. Good luck...


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

Think i may have an idea of whats gone on...the treatment i used for the white spot may have killed off some of the good bacteria in the filters,as the fish that were affected are bottom type of fish the o2 levels will have been low, with the treatment and raise in temp..with them already effected by white spot breathing would have been difficult and with lack of o2 even harder...i think they have sufficated


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Were they breathing heavy? Going to the surface?

Do you have good surface agitation? If so, I wouldn't be so fast to point the finger at O2.


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

Yes they have been breathing very heavy. They tend to hang around the bottom of the tank anyway with them being earth eaters. I have a wave maker pointed towards the surface. This could maybe explain why the other fish are not effected because they tend to occupy the middle of the tank and upper areas.

I pulled the fitler returns to just above the surface thus creating lots of air bubbles which will help to add oxygen to the water.

Today I will buy some of that good bacteria start stuff to help the filters to recover, am sure this is all tied into the water spot treatments


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

Well whatever is happening has passed on to my angels...lost 2 today....are marble head standers nasty?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Water parameters?

Not familiar with that species at all. I looked it up though. Why do you ask?


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Do you still have an ammonia reading? Geophagus are incredibly susceptible to poor water quality. What is your normal water change schedule? What water conditioner do you use?


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

Hi. Ammonia levels are 0 now.. Bought a newer test kit. All other readings are fine and ph is around 7.6

I use api stress coat with tap water. Water change each week. Running 2 1200 lt filters.

The marble headstanders are I have discovered semi aggressive and nippy. I have seen this happening but not sure it's when the other fishes are weakened or could stressed by the marbles


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Nitrite? Nitrate? Liquid test kit with the vials or strips?


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

Vial test kits. Nitrite was light blue which s 0ppm nitrate was around 20ppm


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

3 angel fish lost now but think this is due to marble headstanders stressing them


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

So after several weeks, no more deaths of other fish the time was right to start over. Bought 3 new Geo's. All good for 1st two weeks. Then one died on Wednesday, did a 70% water change. One died Friday. One left.

No obvious sighs of distress or problems.

water is as follows

ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 0pmm
Nitrate 80 ppm (maybe higher inbetween 80 and 160, town water supply is 20ppm)
PH 7.6
temp 27.5 c
TDS 173

I know the Nitrate is high and this could be due to over feeding, (was away for 5 days and had automatic feeder running)

Anyone any ideas? The nitrate is looking likely to me, so still high even after a 70% change

Thank you


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sorry for the continued troubles. As ahud stated earlier, Geos need 'pristine' conditions.

So your tap water has 20 ppm nitrate. That sucks but could be worse. Try something that may take 2 days. Do a large water change. Let's say 50%. Test nitrate before and after. Wait several hours. Do another water change of 50%. Test again for nitrate. You want to get that nitrate reading as close to your starting point as possible. This may take 4 or more water changes. Once you're there, test daily or every other day and see how fast it raises. Try to keep that under 40-60 ppm and schedule your water changes around that. Develop a method.

Where did you buy these fish?
What filtration do you have and how often do you rinse sponges/media?(if you mentioned this earlier in the thread I apologize. getting old  )


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

The fish are bought from an excellent source. I have no doubt what so ever this is not the reason.

We're all getting old lol.

I run two tetra tec 1200 filters. The filters where lasted cleaned around a month ago..normally do one then the other couple weeks later.

I suspect it maybe a nitrate problem as you say geos need good water. Maybe a little over feeding too

Thank you for the reply


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## ballyclover (Jul 12, 2015)

Hi all

Its been a while but recently bought 4 more geo tapajo young, about 1 inch.

So all went well, have new tank been fully cycled for at least 3 months and I used the filter from my old tank to be double sure. All tests were fine, no nitrates. Introduced the 4 Geo's. All great for 4 weeks then last week one suddenly started hanging out alone and I could see gasping for air. Checked water parameters, Nitrates were off the scale around 200ppm. That one fish died. I cleaned my filter as hadn't been done in 3 month, cleaned as I always have to prevent killing good bacteria, washed in old tank water.

did a 50% water change and added seachem safe powder to the tank. Nitrates came down to around 50-100ppm, next day did a 25% change, added seachem safe. Nitrates down to 20ppm. Left tank for a few days, checked nitrates still around the 20ppm, another 50% water change, seachem safe added, nitrates at around 5-10 ppm. So all good. Last water change done this Sunday. Yesterday Monday came home to find the 3 remaining geos on their sides, 2 dead being sucked up by bristlenose and the 3rd bearly alive. removed him from the tank into his own hospital tank, fresh water, air brick unfortunately he died too.

So I assume that the nitrates have killed these fish, and that the peak of 200ppm or more 2 weeks back was enough to cause permanent damage to the 3 remaining at that point. Would this be a correct assumption. No other fish has died, included 4 severums and tetras.

Sick of wasting money, but I love these geos and wish I could keep them. My tap water is 10ppm

Any thoughts anyone


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sorry to hear about the new fish.

I've heard of Safe causing problems for others, but probably due to user error. Are you sure you're using the proper amount for your volume of water? No offense, just figured I'd ask...

And how did the nitrates rise to 200? Were water changes neglected for a time? A dead fish like a pleco somewhere hidden away?


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