# Problems with Keyholes



## omendey (Jan 11, 2010)

Hey guys and gals, im new to this forum so thought i would start with saying hi 

As of last Friday I had four keyhole cichlids. I got them very small from my lfs part way through last year. They have grown a **** of a lot since i bought them. When we had them up until the last month or so they seemed very happy. They now seem to be very scared and are almost permanently very black in colour. When i come to the front of the tank they sometimes come out and start to colour up a bit but nothing like they used to. I have spoken to one person who said it could be that they are scared of some of our other fish as they are small. They aernt that small and the only other fishes who i would say are bigger is 3 pearl gouramis, a BN ples, Candy stripped plec and a BGKF. The BGKF is always hidden away in the day time, he is quite big at about 8 inches in total. They keyholes are probably about 3.5 inches or so including fins. I don't know if it makes a difference but all our key holes are male. When i said as of Friday having four, we now have 8 as i got four more on Saturday. I think they are really nice and someone did say it maybe as they like to be in bigger groups.

If anyone has any ideas at all i would love to hear your replies. Sorry for the long post!
Thanks


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## omendey (Jan 11, 2010)

Anyone able to help please?


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## Will1983 (Dec 6, 2009)

have you got any dither fish in the tank?

i have 6 keyholes in my tank and they are always active and friendly
i have a dozen glowlight tetras and a pair of BN and also my tank is heavily planted.

i hope this helps..


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

what size tank are they in?


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## omendey (Jan 11, 2010)

What do you mean by dither fish? Not heard that before. They are in a 300litre tank, bowfront if that makes a difference


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Here's a good article on Dither Fisher, that explains it much better than I could.

Could you please list the dimensions of your tank, and provide a full list of inhabitants.

I have kept Keyholes in the past, and found that while they are young they are quite active and cute dwarf cichlids. However they older and larger they became, the more reclusive and skittish they became. If they didn't know you were there, they'd be out and about doing thier thing, but as soon as there was movement in the room, they'd dart for cover and stay there for a long time. And this was in a moderately planted 6 foot tank with quite a few peacefull cichlids and lots of tetras, hatchetfish and pencilfish.


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## omendey (Jan 11, 2010)

We have the following fish:

6 Cardinal Tetras
3 Pearl Gouramis
1 Candy Striped Plec
1 Royal Panaque Plec
1 BN Plec
2 Kribensis
1 Zebra Loach
6 Zebra Danios
5 Sailfin Mollies
1 Black Ghost Knife Fish
8 Rummy Nose Tetra
8 Keyhole Cichlids
4 Borneo Suckers
3 Siamese flying foxes
6 Clown Loach
1 Julii Corydoras
3 Panda Corydoras
3 Armano Shrimp

The tank is a 300litre bowfront
Height - 500mm
Depth - 350mm each side, 450mm in the middle of the bow
Width - 1200mm


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

man, i think that comes out to between 75 and 80 gallons, but you are really overstocked there.

i think in a tank that size you would be ok with:

4 to 6 keyholes (if 4, you could look at a medium size, mid to top water cichlid like angels or festivum)
about 30 rummynose and/or cardinal tetras
2 BN plecos
a school of 6 or so cories

all the rest of your fish are great fish, but you just dont have room for them all in my opinion.
i would venture a guess that as your fish are maturing, they have nowhere to go and all the action in your tank is just stressing them out big time.

with bottom dwelling cichlids like keyholes who can be very skittish, having 6 clown loaches is insanity. do you know how large they get?

thin out your stock and i bet you anything they perk right up!


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## omendey (Jan 11, 2010)

Yes i know how big the clowns get. We have only bought them recently and are currently maybe 3 inches or so. This year we are going to get a 6 foot tank. Think im going to start by getting rid of the Danios after reading about dither fish


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

omendey said:


> We have the following fish:
> 
> 6 Cardinal Tetras
> 3 Pearl Gouramis
> ...


I agree with the other poster that your stock is a bit wacky! A few suggestions:

Add 10 more to the rummies and 10 more to the cardinals and either get rid of your julii cory or get him some friends. The panda really need more friends, too. Remove the borneo suckers and Siamese flying foxes. I'd also take out the mollies and danios myself but that's just me. Are your kribs a pair? They can really terrorize a tank when breeding. It helps if your tank is heavily planted. I would swap the gouramis with some angels in order to give you some semblance of a South American tank and remove the clown loaches when you have your bigger tank . . . Just my two cents.


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## omendey (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks for your two cents  I am going to get ride of the mollies and the danios. The mollies were free from a friend as theirs had babies. The danios we have had from day one but neither my girlfriend and I are too fussed about keeping them. The Julii originally had two other friends but unfortunately they passed on. I liked the Julii but my girlfriend wanted Panda so we got three of each. If we got rid of the flying foxes AND the borneo suckers, how many do you think we could have of each? Thanks guys for your help. Looking at the stocking list it does look out of hand. At first we had a nice stock, but then bought fish we liked, silly mistake


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I don't necessarily think your over stocked. You have a lot dither fish, a lot, a few plecos and other small loach/catfish.

The fish that concerns me most are the 2 Kribensis and Black Ghost Knife Fish. I've never kept a Black Ghost Knife Fish so don't really have any idea how it's presence will be affecting the Keyholes. Kribensis can be quite a bit more aggressive than most SA dwarf cichlids, so these 2 West African cichlids may be the cuase of some stress for the Keyholes.

I would look to balance your stocking levels a little. I'd be more inclined to move all the loaches before I'd move the Siamese flying fox (is ith the same as a siamese algea eater?) and borneo suckers. As well as the BKGF and kribs.


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## omendey (Jan 11, 2010)

The kribs are both female so are never a problem, they are very placid, same with the bgkf. The bgkf likes to be under the bogwood in the day and never bothers anyone apart from the BN as they share a home together. The Keyholes sometimes shelter near there too, so i doubt the BGKF causes them stress, nor the Kribs. I have found a home for the Danios and Mollies, thats a start. Will ask them about the borneos and flying foxes. The flying foxes are not siamese algae eaters, im pretty sure they aernt anyway as i think my mate has one and they are big!


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## omendey (Jan 11, 2010)

Right, well we have now got the following stock:

18 Cardinal Tetras 
3 Pearl Gouramis 
1 Candy Striped Plec 
1 Royal Panaque Plec 
1 BN Plec 
2 Kribensis 
1 Zebra Loach 
1 Black Ghost Knife Fish 
8 Rummy Nose Tetra 
8 Keyhole Cichlids 
4 Borneo Suckers 
3 Siamese flying foxes 
6 Clown Loach 
1 Julii Corydoras 
3 Panda Corydoras 
3 Armano Shrimp

We got 12 more cardinals. We got rid of our sailfin mollies and zebra danios. Im considering getting rid of the Bristlenose aswell. I don't particularly want to get rid of the Clown Loach yet.

Is there anything anyone would desperately advise me to get rid of?

Thanks


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## keeno (May 9, 2009)

I would advise getting rid of the Borneos, the lone zebra loach, the BGKF, and perhaps the flying foxes.

Borneo suckers, which are a trade name for some types of hillstream loaches, are highly specialized *coldwater* fish that need a setup with an extremely large amount of water movement and cold temperatures in order to thrive, and aren't really suitable for the tropical tank you have now.

Zebra loaches are schooling fish, and should be kept in groups - since you already have a lot of bottom-dwelling fish, I think it would be more advantageous to take out the loach rather than add 5+ more.

Black ghost knives can easily get to around 20 inches long and will eat your tetras once they get big enough to put them in its mouth. If you don't get rid of it, it will eventually turn your cardinals and rummynoses into expensive snacks.

Flying foxes do indeed get fairly big, and as they age, they get more and more aggressive and develop a taste for fish rather than algae. I've had flying foxes attach themselves to the sides of my cichlids to the point where my fish were missing large areas of their scales.

Just my two cents,
keeno


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## Will1983 (Dec 6, 2009)

check out AqAdvisor, i would say you were hugely overstocked there but without typing it all into AQAdvisor i couldnt say for sure. just out of interest how big are your weekly water changes?


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