# New 55 Gallon Mbuna Tank



## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

Hello All-

I am looking to set up a 55 gallon Mbuna tank. I haven't had cichlids in a while, so I'm basically starting over. I've done a ton of reading & some planning as well. This forum has been an invaluable source of information so thank you.

The tank is a Clear for Life 55- 48"W X 20"H X13"D. I'd like to run 2 Eheim 2215 canisters with 2 Hydor inline heaters with an Inkbird thermostat.
Pool Sand substrate, Seiryu Stone, Driftwood with a few Java Fern, Java Moss & maybe Anubia glued to the rocks & wood. The light would be a Finnex Planted 24/7.

Stocking list-
Choose 4 of the following:
Maingano 1:3
Saulosi 1:3
Cobue 1:3
Acai 1:3
Hongi 1:3
Rusty 1:3

Also I'm not interested in fry so I'd like 2 Plecos. Not sure I could have Bristle nose as I've heard they can scratch an acrylic tank.

Please let me know what you think.
Thanks


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would do 3 species in a 55G and stock 1m:4f of each. I'd skip the maingano and acei and don't mix the hongi, cobue or saulosi.

What about saulosi, rusties and white labs?

Plecos will not help with fry...one is plenty for a 55G.


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## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks for your reply.
I do really like the Maingano and they have horizontal stripes so no problem with the saulosi right? It says they only grow to 4" but others on the site list their aggression and size(up to 6") as a concern. What about a Cobalt Blue Zebra? I was under the impression the Plecos would eat the fry.


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## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

I also noticed your 75G Demasoni tank. If I went up to that size would I have a ton more options? Also what should I do if I don't want to raise fry?
Thanks


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## thornsja19 (Feb 4, 2017)

The reason he's saying skip the Mainganos is because they're more aggressive and need a lot more females, as in a 1:7 ratio instead of 1:4, and in a smaller tank like yours wouldn't really play well with others.

If you wanted to do Demasoni, get 20 planning on weeding it down to 12 and only put in one other 1:4 ratio species in with them.

A 1:4 group of cobalts would be fine depending on what other species you want with them.

Plecos won't eat fry. If you want fry control get a group of 5 Synodontis multipunctatus.

And just a suggestion, mbuna tanks are recommended to have 8-10 times flow rate, 2 2215s would only get you to a little over 5. If you can afford it, spend the extra $50 and get 2 2217s instead


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would not get demasoni in any case, but yes with a 48x18 tank you will have more options including the maingano and the acei.

Plus one on the multipunctatus for fry control.

People keep plecos in their fry tanks...they are algae eaters. The might eat eggs, but Malawi hold the eggs in their mouths so no risk from the plecos.


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## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

Thank you both on the pleco/multipunctatus clarification. What other species would work with the Cobalts?

I am a bit confused by your filter suggestion. Others on this site recommend a single 2217 as enough filtration for a 55G so I thought I was increasing the flow rate plenty by adding the 2-2215's.

As much as I'd like to get a 75G I think the 55G is all we can do in our Manhattan apartment. That being said, am I better off with a slightly less aggressive species like a Hap or Peacock tank. Some people on the site suggest that with the right mix, I could even do about 9 Hap/Peacock in an all male tank which would solve the fry issue.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

What you can do as far as species go really depends more on how much work you are willing to put into it. Are you willing/able to pay close attention to the tank and make changes on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, as necessary, until you get a stable tank? That generally means removing fish, which for me also meant rearranging the whole tank in order to get them out. It probably means you also need a holding tank for fish you remove, and a local fish store to bring them to. If you are willing to do that for a few months until you achieve stability, go ahead and get the fish you want. If you don't have the time to do that and want a setup that is going to work from the start, listen to what DJ and the other guys on here are telling you about species and male to female ratios.

As far as the filtration, those Eheim canisters tend to have very low flow ratings. They will provide very efficient filtration in terms of keeping the water clean and free of ammonia, but the flow into and out of your tank will be too low to keep the bottom of the tank clean. With a Mbuna tank you typically want 8-10 times flow rate (550 GPH for a 55 gallon tank or more) through the tank to keep too much **** from piling up on the bottom of the tank. I would recommend you go with Fluval canisters, the flow rates are higher.


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## thornsja19 (Feb 4, 2017)

What kind of tank did they recommend a single 2217 for? Most mbuna guys recommend having 8-10 times tank volume in flow rate for their tanks. A single 2217 has a flow rate of 264gph, which is roughly 5 times the tank volume. That'd be good for a SA/CA tank, but a little light for a fully stocked mbuna/peacock tank. For most guys anyway. There are others who recommend less though. Up to you really. I just prefer having the extra because it's a safeguard against an ammonia spike due to an unnoticed fish death or accidental overfeed.


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## thornsja19 (Feb 4, 2017)

Gilmanjr agree that the fluval canisters have higher flow rate specs than the Eheims. However, a friend and I tested our canisters together once (his being fluval, mine eheim) with and without media, and we actually found that it seemed like with the fluval filter the given flow rate applied when the canister was empty, but declined a decent bit when media was added. Whereas the Eheim filter kept the flow rate stated within a few gph even with media in the canister. So I wouldn't necessarily say that the given flow rates is a reason to choose fluval over Eheim, because although fluval have higher ratings they tend to be inflated (seeing as how no one runs a canister without media) whereas the Eheim ratings are more true to what you get while running. Just personal experience/opinion though. Either brand is a great option. And also just as a disclaimer, when I say Eheim I refer to the Classic series, haven't used the newer models


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Never used fluval, but I have both filstar and eheim. The filstars are way easier to maintain than the eheims. And the bang for the buck is better. Just another viewpoint.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

thornsja19 said:


> Gilmanjr agree that the fluval canisters have higher flow rate specs than the Eheims. However, a friend and I tested our canisters together once (his being fluval, mine eheim) with and without media, and we actually found that it seemed like with the fluval filter the given flow rate applied when the canister was empty, but declined a decent bit when media was added. Whereas the Eheim filter kept the flow rate stated within a few gph even with media in the canister. So I wouldn't necessarily say that the given flow rates is a reason to choose fluval over Eheim, because although fluval have higher ratings they tend to be inflated (seeing as how no one runs a canister without media) whereas the Eheim ratings are more true to what you get while running. Just personal experience/opinion though. Either brand is a great option. And also just as a disclaimer, when I say Eheim I refer to the Classic series, haven't used the newer models


Thats interesting, thanks for the info. That tells me that Eheim's flow ratings are with the canisters full of media and Fluval's ratings are with the canisters empty. Shame on you Fluval...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Hap/peacock tanks are not easy tanks in any size, but more challenging in a 55G. Read the all-male article in the Cichlid-forum Library...you need extra tanks and be willing to rehome fish as required for the first two years.

A mixed gender tank would be easier in a 55G and the adults will eat the fry. You could also have 5 Synodontis lucipinnis to get any survivors overnight.

Saulosi and cobalts? With 3m:9f saulosi? Or saulosi, cobalts and labs with 1m:4f of each.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

gillmanjr said:


> That tells me that Eheim's flow ratings are with the canisters full of media and Fluval's ratings are with the canisters empty.


No, ALL filters are rated with out media for GPH.
It could be that given the same type and amount of media, that the Fluval's flow rate decreases more so then the Eheim's (?) but that doesn't mean their ratings were achieved differently.


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## thornsja19 (Feb 4, 2017)

BC in SK said:


> gillmanjr said:
> 
> 
> > That tells me that Eheim's flow ratings are with the canisters full of media and Fluval's ratings are with the canisters empty.
> ...


Correct. The Eheim lost flow rate as well by a slight amount. I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but I believe we used a 2215 that was rates for 163gph and with media that was cut down to about 155gph. Whereas the fluval was rated for a lot more but lost a lot more when media was added (like 70-80 gph instead of the <10gph Eheim lost). So their actual, running with media flow rates were a lot closer than the given, with no needing flow rates. Which is why I say both are great options and one really isn't much better than the other, so it's a matter of personal preference really.


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## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks everyone for weighing in.

As far as other members  recommending one 2217 for a 55G look here: viewtopic.php?t=227435. When you search "Filters for a 55G", there are numerous other times on the forum where a single 2217 is mentioned as enough and there are others who say you need more. That is why I figured I'd do two 2215's instead of one 2217. But I want to do what's best for the fish and if two 2217's are the way to go or two Fluval 406's instead of two 306's so be it.

There is a slight chance I could still move up to a 75G. It's always a challenge in a Manhattan apartment. If that is the case it sounds as if both the two 2217's or two 406's would not be enough for a tank of that size. Do I then need to move up to Eheims Professional Series or Fluval's FX series and run 2 of those? I will save stocking questions for the 75G until a time when I know I will definitely be moving up.

DJ, I did read the all male Cichlid article in the library. I've decided unless a 75G is in my near future,(and even then it sounds like a difficult task), I will stock the 55G as you suggest. I do not want labs if I'm doing Saulosi's. How about 1M:4F of Saulosi, Cobalt & Rusty's with 4 or 5 Synodontis lucipinnis? Also you did suggest Maingano's in this post: http://cichlid-forum.com/phpbb/viewtopi ... 9&t=298306 which is why they were on my initial stocking list. With only the male Saulosi adding some blue to the tank I keep thinking about other possibilities.

Thanks again


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

thornsja19 said:


> Gilmanjr agree that the fluval canisters have higher flow rate specs than the Eheims. However, a friend and I tested our canisters together once (his being fluval, mine eheim) with and without media, and we actually found that it seemed like with the fluval filter the given flow rate applied when the canister was empty, but declined a decent bit when media was added. Whereas the Eheim filter kept the flow rate stated within a few gph even with media in the canister. So I wouldn't necessarily say that the given flow rates is a reason to choose fluval over Eheim, because although fluval have higher ratings they tend to be inflated (seeing as how no one runs a canister without media) whereas the Eheim ratings are more true to what you get while running. Just personal experience/opinion though. Either brand is a great option. And also just as a disclaimer, when I say Eheim I refer to the Classic series, haven't used the newer models


I've seen several comment on testing the flow rate of a canister but that brings some questions for me. Not meaning to question the results, etc. as I have not tried it. But how did you set it up to measure the amount pumped without changing the tubing, water levels or other issues that might change the amount pumped? Since the amount pumped will change so much with the tank water level, how did you get it to stay at a normal level? Just wondering as I have thought about testing at times but never really saw an accurate method so never got around to doing it. 
Part of my reluctance to work too hard to measure the flow is that it is so easy to skew the flow with things we do like different media. I've always felt flow was more a sales info type thing but not terribly important to me if the filter is doing the job. 
Again, please don't feel this is a point of dispute, just more an idea that I've wondered about.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

That post was in 2014 and we had so many people with problems with maingano since, we started recommending a larger tank for them.


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## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

Ok cool. I appreciate all your suggestions.

I'm going forward with the 55G and the two 2217's instead of the 2215's. FMueller posted this article: http://www.fmueller.com/home/aquaristic ... /aeration/ 
on an Eheim diffuser in lieu of a spray bar. It looks great is anyone using these? 
Also since I'll have a few plants glued to the rocks and driftwood I'm planning to use a Finnex 24/7SE and as I said Seiryu rock and pool sand.

I'm down to 3 choices for stocking all 1M:4F with 4 or 5 Synodontis lucipinnis.

Saulosi, Cobalt & Rusty's or

Saulosi, Scolofi & Rusty's or

Afra, Perlmutt or White Labs & Rusty's

Thoughts?


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## thornsja19 (Feb 4, 2017)

List 1 and list 2 would both work and are basically the same. Both the Socolofi and the Cobalts are roughly the same size and temperament. I would personally prefer the Cobalts due to the more bright, vibrant blue, but if you prefer the Socolofi because of the black dorsal fin go for it. It's totally a matter of personal preference. List 3 I'd say if you were gonna do it go White Labs instead of Perlmutt


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## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

Does anyone have any experience with the Eheim diffuser's? If so, I'll be running two Eheim 2217's in my 55G. Do I put them on both return hoses and in what direction?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Why do you need a diffuser? I would keep things simple.


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## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

I posted this link earlier and thought it was relevant: http://www.fmueller.com/home/aquaristic ... /aeration/
Seems simple enough with better results than a spray bar.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't find either necessary. What kind of results are you looking for?


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## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

As FMueller says, better aeration, more efficient, less noise. It seems helpful but you would know better than me.

I originally wanted to run two Eheim 2215's but it was suggested in order to increase tank flow & better filtration, I needed to go with bigger with the 2217's. Then after reading FMueller's article I thought that by using the diffuser it would increase the aeration and oxygen flow in the tank with better results.

Again, if I'm overthinking this stuff or asking too many questions forgive me. I am a novice trying to take in all the information thats given to me and make the best decisions for a greater chance of success with my tank.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

same here...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I like just the filter return (no attachments) and 8X to 10X GPH. I keep the opening of the return submerged, but you can see the surface of the water rippling. It's completely silent. I've never had an oxygenation problem.

If you are worried about oxygenation, you can buy a test for it.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

thornsja19 said:


> List 1 and list 2 would both work and are basically the same. Both the Socolofi and the Cobalts are roughly the same size and temperament. I would personally prefer the Cobalts due to the more bright, vibrant blue, but if you prefer the Socolofi because of the black dorsal fin go for it. It's totally a matter of personal preference.


instead of the rusty what else could work, something with a more vibrant colors...


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## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

Once again, thanks for your feedback DJ. OK so no diffuser or spray bar with the 2217's. That being said with 2 filters, how do you position the outflow for better filtration and tank flow?


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

The OP asked me to put in my 2c. So here we go. Flow rate is a meaningless measure. Who cares how many times per hour you pump the water around. Just circling it around has no effect. Mechanical filtration I largely don't care about. In the worst case, I can use a net and fish out some particles. Other people might think differently about that. Biofiltration is most important, because you need to achieve 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite if you want healthy fish. That said, it does not matter where your beneficial bacteria are. They could be in the filter material, they could be on rocks and plants, or they could be in the substrate. In short, unless you are running a bare bottom tank with no filter material, they will always find a surface to settle on. What they need is oxygen. Ammonia is NH3, Nitrite is NO2-, and Nitrate is NO3-. See how there are three oxygen (O) atoms added in the process? In addition you have the H from ammonia going to H2O. And any organic matter (dead plant leafs, parts of the fish poop other than ammonia) is mostly hydrocarbons, so mostly C and H going to C02 and H2O. All the oxygen this requires needs to come from somewhere, and that's where aeration comes into the game. Of course you can get by with a spray bar and a slightly rippling surface, but if anything goes wrong - like an overlooked dead fish that rots away and produces a huge amount of ammonia - your bacteria can quickly run out of oxygen, you get stuck with ammonia and/or nitrite, the result is the next dead fish, and the situation escalates. You can not over-aerate a tank, and oxygen at saturation levels (meaning as much as will dissolve in water), is a huge safety buffer. Since I run my tanks like that, I have had far less sick fish, and if a fish has wound from a bite or crashing into rocks, it heals quicker, and I have never seen mold growing on a wound, like I sometimes had before.

A diffuser is a $5 part, you just put it where you usually put the spraybar, and done. There is no electricity used, and no complicated setup. They are slightly noisier than a submerged spraybar, but almost imperceptibly so. They create micro bubbles. That micro bubbles are dangerous for fish is an unfounded myth, but if you dislike the look, stay away from diffusers! Personally, I like it, and since my fish like it, everybody is happy! They also create a strong current, which might or might not be good, depending on the fish. For mbuna it's great. The fish clearly enjoy a current. Especially saulosi are known to come from a area with a very strong current in the lake, but most,if not all, other mbuna live in the wave zone, where there are high currents and lots of aeration. Current also helps with aggression control, because a fish swimming against the current has to break off the pursuit of one lower in the hacking order quicker than in still water.

Now to this particular setup, 3 species, each 1M, 4F maxes out a 55G, but that's good stocking, especially when less aggressive mbuna are used, like the OP is now planning. He has got some great advice in this thread.

In my experience, one 2217 with diffuser is plenty for a 75G, so there should be no issue with a 55G. When filled with filter floss, my 2217 on a heavily stocked 75G never needed cleaning more than twice per year. Having all that oxygen makes a huge difference! If you can break down dead plant matter and fish poop straight to CO2, it will help to fertilize your plants, or just gas out of the tank if you don't have plants. In any case, it will not clog up your filter! Of course you also can not over-filter a tank. If money is not an issue, nothing speaks against two 2217s. With two diffusers, or even a diffuser and a spraybar, you want to think carefully how you direct the current. Obviously the fish also need some areas where they can rest. You don't want to stress them out by living in a blender. It's impossible to recommend how you should place the filter outlets, because a lot depends on how you arrange your rocks. Just use common sense to create a mix of still areas, for example behind the rocks, and open water areas, where the fish can enjoy the current.

If two filters are used and money is no issue, you might as well use two inline Hydors as well. With one filter, one 200W inline Hydor is plenty enough. I assume you don't want to freeze yourself in that Manhattan apartment, so it's not like the tank is in an unheated basement. The only problem I have ever had with Hydors is the thermostat giving up. It's happened to me only once, and I've had a number of the heaters. But personally, I will never run an aquarium heater again without a Ranco ETC 111000 controller. They are industrial quality, and if businesses entrust huge warehouses full of sensitive produce to them, they are good enough for my fish tanks. I've yet to hear about one fail. I have no experience with Finnex thermostats, and can't comment on them.

Finally on the OP's concern about fry. Mbuna are not convicts. It is rare for fry to grow up in a fully stocked tank. Unless you provide good cover, you might never see one - with or without the catfish If you do, your kids will get a total kick out of it, as will you. And a few extras in the colony will not be a problem. In the extremely unlikely event you get overrun with fry, you can always take them to your next LFS, either for free or for store credit. They will always take nice looking mbuna, because they are easy to sell.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

great info...

thanks for that...

:thumb: =D> :thumb: =D> :thumb: ...


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

joselepiu said:


> thornsja19 said:
> 
> 
> > List 1 and list 2 would both work and are basically the same. Both the Socolofi and the Cobalts are roughly the same size and temperament. I would personally prefer the Cobalts due to the more bright, vibrant blue, but if you prefer the Socolofi because of the black dorsal fin go for it. It's totally a matter of personal preference.
> ...


did not get an answered... :roll: :?  ...


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## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks so much Mr. Mueller for all of your thorough & specific information. With the knowledge I've received from you, DJ & others I believe I can confidently begin the process of setting up our new family aquarium. I can't wait to begin to share the experience with my 5 year old son. He's a sharp little guy and he's really shown an interest in the hobby.

One more thing, I also read the article on filtration, http://www.fmueller.com/home/aquaristic ... iltration/. It is invaluable for a novice like me. In fact I'm sure some seasoned aquarists could benefit from it too. You say that you love filter floss and it's the only media you use in your canister filters. I assume that if I'm running two 2215's or 2217's, I would pack both of them with floss and not worry about the media that comes with the filters.

Once again, thank you for all of your input.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I would wait before converting to only filter floss in your filters for the time being. Filter floss will trap much more fine debris and will plug up quicker when it is replacing stock media in the filter. I've had excellent results using the Eheim stock media and since you already have it, why not just use it?


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## Salvoman (Feb 21, 2014)

Good point...


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## thornsja19 (Feb 4, 2017)

joselepiu said:


> joselepiu said:
> 
> 
> > thornsja19 said:
> ...


Sorry man, didn't catch that post. Ok, so so far we're at groups of Saulosi, Rusties, and Socolofi/Cobalts, and you want to replace the Rusties with something more vibrant correct? In that case there's a couple options...

1) If you wanted to replace the Rusties with a bright white group, could replace with either White Labs (White with black fins) or Albino Socolofi (Red eyes, white body, and either white or ice blue fins depending on strain). If you go this route either make your stock Saulosi, Socolofi, and White Labs or Saulosi, Cobalt Zebras, and Albino Socolofi.

2) You could replace the Rusties with Red Zebras. If you go this route then you rule out the Cobalt Zebras due to the avoiding extra aggression/hybrid thing, so your stock would be Saulosi, Socolofi, and Red Zebras.

So overall if you choose option 1 you get the dark blue/black barred Saulosi male, the yellow Saulosi females, light blue Socolofi/Cobalt Zebras, and white Albino Socolofi/White Labs. Option 2 is basically option 1 but replacing the white fish with Red Zebras. And none of the species have dull females.


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## thornsja19 (Feb 4, 2017)

Oh, and another white option is Albino Red Top Zebras. Obviously if you went with these, you would also have to big the Cobalts and go with Albino Red Top Zebras, Socolofi, and Saulosi. Just so you have the option of a white fish with red/orange fins instead of ice blue/black fins


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Deeda said:


> I would wait before converting to only filter floss in your filters for the time being. Filter floss will trap much more fine debris and will plug up quicker when it is replacing stock media in the filter. I've had excellent results using the Eheim stock media and since you already have it, why not just use it?


Dee - you are packing it too tightly :wink:

That said, if you already have the Eheim media, might as well give it a try. I never have, because I wouldn't spend a dime on it. I am cheap and proud of it


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Frank, I know!  I've only actually used floss a few times in any of my Classic filters and haven't particularly cared for it either because it 'lost' some fibers that got wound around the impeller or needed to be replace too often for my tastes. I've since switched to using Poret foam cut to fit and Poly-fil traditional batting as the fine media with good results.

Where I think some people have problems with using floss is that they pack it too tightly and then complain about reduced output flow or the need to clean the filter more frequently. Everyone has a different preference for particular filter media and tend to just stick with what works for them.  I think I fall into this category and the same with the brand/model filters I use.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm in the "no-floss group!
Think of pillow stuffing and what happens to the pillow when it gets wet? Floss is cheap but too cheap for me to deal with the extra labor. If buying Eheim, I definitely go with the stock media as it is one of the really worthwhile points. When buying Sunsun filters, I also stock them with leftover Eheim hard media.
when the initial soft media finally gets too ragged from rinsing, I switch to other media which has a stiffener built in so that it does not wad down so soon and stop flow. Floss also has a really irritating habit of letting a single strand come off and wind itself around the impeller shaft! For a test, a cotton ball is much like filter floss. Wet a cotton ball and see what is left!
I find any one of these to be far better than simple floss:
https://www.petsolutions.com/C/Floss-Fo ... Media.aspx

When looking for a peaceful tank, I do not use any of the pseudotropheus group as they are more trouble than I need with all the nicer fish available. Maybe that is why others feel they have to overstock to avoid aggression? Just not the way I like to deal with my tanks.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you want cheap that does not clog, try pot scrubbers.

I use them, but mostly I use the media that comes with the filters and/or Eheim Substrat Pro (expensive but easy to maintain, effective and lasts a lifetime).


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

PfunMo said:


> I find any one of these to be far better than simple floss:
> https://www.petsolutions.com/C/Floss-Fo ... Media.aspx


how often do you have to clean those?...

how often do you have to change them?...

thinking on ordering this one...


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

joselepiu said:


> PfunMo said:
> 
> 
> > I find any one of these to be far better than simple floss:
> ...


anyone???...


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

For what it's worth, I have been using floss since 1977 in Eheim classic series filters, and never once had any wrap around the impeller. I actually don't buy floss from aquarium stores, but pillow stuffing from Walmart. Works great for me, but of course everybody should do what works for them. There are a gazillion ways to successfully run an aquarium. I don't think anybody around here still recommends UGFs, but I know people who have used them for decades, had healthy fish, and never a problem.

Poret is great! I use it in sumps and as sponge filter. Lasts forever and does a great job. I just don't think it's ideal for canister filters, because you have a small entry surface, and once that clogs up, you need to wash the stuff out. In a HMF you have a very large entry surface, and it takes forever to clog up - if it ever does. The floss I can just take and put it in the trash. Poret I have to wash out. I guess I am not just cheap, but lazy as well.

With pot scrubbers you really want to make sure you get the right type. I tried that once, and it turns out mine were biodegradable! Luckily I checked on them after a week, and they had turned into slime. Basically the whole filter was full of a dark brown sludge that stank like cat poop. Another problem is that some of them come soaked with detergent. It can work if you have the right type, but they will never be as good as Poret, because they are closed pored foam, while Poret is open pored. Open pored foam has a surface area and filtering capacity that is orders of magnitude better than any closed pored foam. Open pored foam is difficult to make, hence the comparatively high price of Poret.

Floss is better than closed pored foam, but not as good as open pored, but it's dirt cheap!


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