# Can this work? DIY Pond Heater



## FloridaFishGuy (Oct 2, 2003)

I know this may not be the best forum but their are tons of people hear that have a great deal of knowledge and I am bound to find someone to help.

I am planning on building an above ground pond out of landscape timber, rebar, pond liner, and a 55g barrel for a filter. I will be using the barrel as a skippy filter which is an up flow style and with the water overflowing at the top directly into the pond. Inside the filter is where I would like to have the 1-2 heaters. The pond will be 8x8x2-3 feet. That will be about 1000g. This will be outside under the shade of an oak tree. I live in florida, so I only have to really worry about the temps a month or two out of the year. It will house Malawi Cichlids and some pond plants.

I was thinking of using 1-2 120V water heater elements with a Honeywell Thermostat. I saw someone on the forum use one of these thermostats for a diy chiller. Do you guys think this would be a good idea for a budget heater for a year round cichlid pond? Any idea how I could mount them in the barrel? Any other solution is around $300-400 dollars and that does not include the controller/thermostat. This would cost me $50 for thermostat and $20 for elements.

Thanks in advance,
Blake


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

When it's 40*F overnight and 60*F durin ghte heat of the day...

And you are trying to keep 64 square feet of agitated surface area at 75~80*F...

Your going to have massive evaporation and even more massive of electrical bills...

For the amount of electricity you pay for in your first year you could finance a greenhouse to be built over it... which is what I would suggest you actually do...


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## FloridaFishGuy (Oct 2, 2003)

Would a cover, like a spa cover work well? That is what I was also planning on doing when it got really cold. I guess I didn't think it would be that hard to heat this thing.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

You could build a greenhouse around the pond .

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm not sure what the cost of landscaping timber, rebar, and pond liner is, but I would look into using cinder blocks and drylok. Theoretically the insulation value of the cinder blocks is greater than that of wood. Couple this with an insulated cover and I would think that you would have a 'cost effective' solution. Since you are considering a spa cover, I would look into a spa heater as well. My old 500g hot tub had no problems remaining at a cozy 103* in the dead of winter in Colorado. The electric bill wasn't to high either.


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## exasperatus2002 (Jul 5, 2003)

My neighbor gave me his pond equipment when he dismantled his pond. He was using a heater from a water trough. He said it was only $25. Its submersable but keeps the pond warm enough that it doesnt freeze and the fish still go dormant. Water temp he said ran 34*F.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Nix on the water trough heater. The ones I've used are set to keep water from freezing. Some fish will go dormant but the Malawi guys mentioned will not return when spring comes. 

Any way this could be dug into the ground or earth built up to insulate it for the times when temps do dip?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

The "Green House" built around it doesn't have to be anything to fancy... Four corner posts, a tarp and some shrink wrap to seal it off... It won't be the prettiest thing on the block, but you can remove the tarp in the warmer months...

Or you can spend a little bit more and build an actual greenhouse over it.

Or you could meet in the middle and build a nice frame that holds thick clear plastic in place... Just make it so you can create ventilation in the warmer months... or seal it off inthe cooler months...


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## cichlidfeesh (Apr 6, 2009)

Living in central Florida myself (close enough), I would say keeping cichlids would be tricky. This summer it was high 90's everyday, in winter it can get down in the 20's. Also watch out for birds or any other animal catching the fish and relocating them (seems far fetched but someone in the wildlife society mentioned it one day). We donâ€™t want any chances of fish being in our rivers that arenâ€™t supposed to be :thumb:

Other then that sounds like a cool idea. Any reason for picking Malawi cichlids? My friend who lives in Kissimmee had a pond with some convicts along with livebearers ,and to my knowledge they survived without any special care.


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## FloridaFishGuy (Oct 2, 2003)

How about this for heating? Also, how can I keep critters form messing with the pond. I plan to have lillys and broken pots or pvc at the bottom for them to have places to hide.

cichlidfeesh - I love the color and personality of malawi cichlids. I want something that is going to be good to view in a pond but my wife and I don't want goldfish or koi. If there is something that fits that and is more tolerant to cold, let me know


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Do the south-american cichlids infesting some of florida's waterways make it that far north? If they survive in canals over the winter surely they'll survive in a minimally heated pond?

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Several potential problems have been mentioned. I know for sure there are lots of raccoons, evn in the cities. They are experts at catching fish! :x I might question the Malawi in a pond under an oak tree. I'm thinking oak leaves are acidic. Someone jump up and correct me if that is not true. Even though you may not have full blown leaf fall as more northern might, it may give you fits trying to keep the water hard and alkaline. Some leaves tend to stain the water also. Perhaps a better choice might be some of the larger cichlids that are used to leaves, etc. would be better. Texas cichlids are able to stand some relatively cold water.


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

It would be interesting to me to see a raccoon catch a malawi cichlid. Mine are so fast that I have to use 2 nets and remove most of my decor to even get a shot at them. Granted they can see me coming, but I would LMAO if I saw a **** get a cichlid. Not that it couldn't happen, I just would like to see it. As far as the oak leaves go, they probably have tannis in them, which is acidic and turns the water yellow/brown. However, they need to soak in the water to release the tannis. So if you skimmed them off as regularly the change in chemistry would be negligible. Additionally, the change in chemistry would be so gradual that the fish would adapt to it readily, especially since the water will never really go "acidic".

That spa heater should work just fine, but it looks like it is designed with exposed terminals so it would have to be mounted externally in a sheltered place. If you were doing an external filter, you could hook the heater up to the return line, but since you are planning on running an internal filter, you will have to use a dedicated pump to run the water from the pond, to the heater, and back to the pond. It's doable, but it would work better with an external filter. Six to one, half a dozen to the other. I bet the spa heater is more efficient than the HW heaters though.


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## FloridaFishGuy (Oct 2, 2003)

I will be doing an external filter. It will be a 55g barrel that will be sitting behind the pond. The water will be pumped to the bottom of the barrel and then flow up through the media and then overflow into the pond. The only way to use the heater with this plan would be before the barrel. This could be insulated however.


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## FloridaFishGuy (Oct 2, 2003)

This will be my Filter. Instead of going down a water fall, it will go directly into the pond.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Just a thought.
Google the pond forums, take a tour of the posts..you might find just what you are looking for.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Feels good to begin to get a plan together doesn't it? I was serious about raccoons catching fish. The idea may sound silly to people who have not had experience with wildlife but if you think about it little raccoon has to be good at finding food. The big slow moving ones we see in the trash cans are just the dull ones that don't want to work for a living. Then also, I'm sure there are quite a number of birds who love fish. Florida still has a few egrets, herons, fish hawks, and at least a couple hungry gulls if I remember correctly. Anything that fishes for a living will not mind stopping by for a snack on some fish in a barrel. :thumb: They are a whole lot better suited for catching fish than we are. Some type of cover at least at night will be a good investment.


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## FloridaFishGuy (Oct 2, 2003)

Yeah, I have already thought of some ideas for some kind of net for the top when no one is around to view it. At least to cover the open part of the pond, because the back two sides will probably be dedicated to plants. I have also decided to go with some South/Central American Cichlids, so I can probably get by with a 120V/1300W heater.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

FloridaFishGuy said:


> Yeah, I have already thought of some ideas for some kind of net for the top when no one is around to view it. At least to cover the open part of the pond, because the back two sides will probably be dedicated to plants. I have also decided to go with some South/Central American Cichlids, so I can probably get by with a 120V/1300W heater.


I think, if the the raccoons want it, they will find a way in..smart and handy critters that they are.
If I remember right, I set up a hydraulic pumping station with a water heater element, but I used a 220v, but ran 110v into it..I was concerned about the thermo failing and finding a bubbling tank of goo in the morning.


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

> This will be my Filter. Instead of going down a water fall, it will go directly into the pond


Ok, I see what you are doing. I had envisioned the barrel in the middle of the pond with the bottom of the barrel perforated to allow water through, then the media, then a pump pulling the water through and over the top of the barrel. I see some logistical issues with the way I envisioned it, but at the time I didn't really think to much about it. Anyway, The flow of the water should be fast enough that the heat exchange in the filter should be minimal. Even if it is significant, that heater should be able to overheat the water easily. The only concern I would have about it being before the filter would be that it could potentially get gunky. I would put some kind of barrier over it at night to avoid midnight predation, but during the day and being under an oak the risk seems minimal.

Oh, and another thing, you may want to consider adding a UV sterilizer so your pond doesn't look like pea soup after a few weeks of sun.


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## jonesangela (Nov 13, 2010)

Well, I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know what is the exactly cost of the landscaping of the rebar and pond liner. But the it would look into cinder blocks and drylok, theoretically in the insulation value of the cinder blocks is greater than the wood. However, the couple with some insulated cover that would have a cost effective solution.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I find cinder block has very poor insulation value. The stone conducts heat or cold directly through. if it doesn't have a thermal gap built in some way. Stone fireplaces are terrible for doing that. Many of the older stone fireplaces were not built with a break and you can freeze to death in front of a roaring fire! For a shorter term use like a pond where rotting out is not the primary worry I would choose wood. Wood conducts heat and cold much slower and would make a better choice to me as it is generally easier to work for the novice builder. For colder climates, I would line the inner side of the wood with foam insulation between the wood and the liner.


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## GeriJo (May 13, 2010)

You know, I've toyed with this same problem. I keep telling myself that there has to be a way to rig up one of the heating elements for an electric indoor grill so that it has a temperature control switch and is water proof. I can buy those little grills at auctions all the time for less than $20... and them little suckers can get HOT.... I need to rig up something that would not only keep my pond thawed in winter, but would keep it heated to at least 76 degrees F.... Can anyone here take this ball and run with it... and maybe explain it to me on the way so I can re-create it here????


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## GeriJo (May 13, 2010)

FloridaFishGuy said:


> How about this for heating? Also, how can I keep critters form messing with the pond. I plan to have lillys and broken pots or pvc at the bottom for them to have places to hide.
> 
> cichlidfeesh - I love the color and personality of malawi cichlids. I want something that is going to be good to view in a pond but my wife and I don't want goldfish or koi. If there is something that fits that and is more tolerant to cold, let me know


As for this one, they make anti-critter pond nets, or you can stretch a fish net over it.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

There are remote sensing thermostats made to handle heavy electrical loads that would work for controls. I have a salvage one that was used to control heating/cooling at a small site. It requires a bit of hardwiring as it doesn't have pigtails or receptacles built in. I am currently using it for control on a small pump to circulate water through a solar pool heater but that is way underuse for this item. It is a basic bulb senser that is placed where you want to measure temp. In the water in this case. Then there are contacts, one opens on rise and the other closes on rise. You could wire it to close when the temperature reaches the set point. It has a knob to adjust the setting. Look at Honeywell controls for the voltage you want to use.


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## GeriJo (May 13, 2010)

that would be awesome. I'm still wondering how to make the heating element submersible...


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

One way-top of the head thinking? Make a box that floats, seal the heater hanging down through the bottom of the box with enough flexible wiring to provide for changes in water levels. You may want to make a tether to keep the box from floating away so far it stretches the wiring. Seal totally around any wiring with some of the liquid rubber type products that can be painted on. The remote sensing bulb is sealed and can just hang in the water to sense temperature. The one I have has about three feet of lead from the control to the bulb so the box can be mounted far enough away from water to stay dry.


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