# The giant malawi tank at the Toronto Zoo



## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

I took these pictures in 2006. Things haven't changed much since then. There's a very large (approx 20 ft by 10 ft by 10 ft) aquarium at the Toronto Zoo full of the cichlids of lake Malawi. I actually talked to the curator of fish there and confirmed that they sourced these fish through a local aquarium store chain. They bought one or more of every kind of malawi cichlid the retailed had available, dumped them in a giant tank, and let 'er rip. The tank has no caves btw.. which I find rather troubling given that this is a zoo and the tank is mostly Mbuna which in the wild dwell amongst rocks and the caves those rocks provide. Also, they feed this tank flake. Cheap, crappy flake. And only flake. The flake is donated by Hagen (that's all I know) and they just dump a bucket of it in there every day. I caught them feeding and took a picture.









Feeding


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I've seen the video a few times. My favorite part was when the yellow lab moved. :roll:


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

i' ve been to few places with big tanks like this. for example; boston aquarium, and sea world. the malawi tanks at both places were set up the same way as this one. a ton of fish, and almost no hiding places. kinda funny imo that everyone is so sure what u can and cant do in aquariums yet here are the "experts" breaking the so-called rules as far as stocking and set up. it seems to work out fine for them. Hmm? the comment about "cheap crappy flake" leads me to ask what makes it cheap and crappy? i would have to see list of ingredients to determine that its "cheap and crappy" whos to say its not packed with exactly what they need?


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

sumthinfishy said:


> i' ve been to few places with big tanks like this. for example; boston aquarium, and sea world. the malawi tanks at both places were set up the same way as this one. a ton of fish, and almost no hiding places. kinda funny imo that everyone is so sure what u can and cant do in aquariums yet here are the "experts" breaking the so-called rules as far as stocking and set up. it seems to work out fine for them. Hmm? the comment about "cheap crappy flake" leads me to ask what makes it cheap and crappy? i would have to see list of ingredients to determine that its "cheap and crappy" whos to say its not packed with exactly what they need?


No flake is appropriate for 7 and 8" fish. That's the point. Any fish that can take pellets should be fed pellets. A high quality pellet is more nutritious than a flake for a number of reasons. It's a greater volume of food in less bites, it doesn't lose it's vitamins in water as quickly, there's less mess. A fish would have to eat a lot of flakes to equal a few pellets. Pellets are a more concentrated form of nutrition. How many potato chips would you have to eat to equal the mass of a steak? Know what I mean?


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

good point. i'm just thinking with pellet it may not get spread out enough. i know when i feed pellt to my malawi tank, the bigger fish will collect a mouthful before the smaller ones can get any. the flake disperses a little better sllowing everyone to get some. i agree with your theory of pellet being better quality, but u dont want a qurter of your fish getting no food either


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

in all honesty, when u got that many fish to feed and u got a company thats willing to donate, i guess u take what u can get


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

one more thought on the potato chip vs steak theory. i can buy a powder protein mix at the store that i mix with 8oz of water. this scoop of powder gives me more protiens, vitamins, amino acids, etc... than a whole steak would. just sayin


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

sumthinfishy said:


> one more thought on the potato chip vs steak theory. i can buy a powder protein mix at the store that i mix with 8oz of water. this scoop of powder gives me more protiens, vitamins, amino acids, etc... than a whole steak would. just sayin


The steak is a steak. The protein shake is a concentrate of various specific ingredients. You can't really compare the two IMO.



sumthinfishy said:


> in all honesty, when u got that many fish to feed and u got a company thats willing to donate, i guess u take what u can get


That's all the more ridiculous on the part of the Zoo IMO. They spend thousands a week flying bamboo into Toronto from a farm in the USA and the pandas eat kilotons of it. Are the fish less worthy of money spent on quality foods?

This zoo is huge. It's a 2.7 square kilometer zoo. They have money.


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

isnt that what fish food is? a manufactured food with specific ingredients. the protein shake is designed to give me what i need to work out. there are things added that i cant get from a steak. just as the fish food whether it be flake or pellet is designed to give fish what they need. its exactly the same thing. i'm not throwing meat and potatoes in the fish tank. im throwing manufactured food to substitute their nutritional needs. just like the protien shake. as far as the zoos funds go, i'm willing to bet they have limited funds for each exhibit. that being said i'm sure the koala bears get more money allocated to them then the fish do. the zoo spends the money on what brings in the people. unfortunately that isnt fresh water fish. i'm willing to bet if the guy in charge of the fish started complaining to get more funds for better food, then the zoo would probably do away with exhibit all together allowing more money for koalas or even saltwater fish, because thats what bring in the people. the fact they were all bought at local chain stores instead of caught in the wild should be your first clue


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Seriously, it's hard to really tell what actually is in fish food. It is all unnatural... I don't think the fish care all that much, flakes or pellets. One hopes you are giving better food, but who really knows.

Heck, most domesticated dogs and cats do okay on bagged dry food and mystery ingredient treats that are often more expensive than human food. What is put in those bagged pet foods... you don't want to know, you wouldn't call it food... grain by-products for filler and slaughterhouse slop garbage.

As for the zoo tank... do fry survive? How many hybrids actually make it?


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Bottom line here is that the fish seem healthy enough and they aren't dying off. The Zoo has been squeezed financially for a long time. They do the best with what they have. In the fish lab, feeding the seahorses has to be expensive since they import live mysis shrimp weekly. As to quality of foods, over the years the selection has gotten better, but in spite of this, there were many very successful fish keepers that used "cheap" food. With this food they managed to breed thousands of species of fish.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

One of the premier vendors for African Cichlids in NA uses only flake.

Stocking 'rules' go right out the window in a tank this massive. With very little territory to fight over and bumping into hundreds of different tankmates every second of your existence, aggression is a non factor.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

noki said:


> What is put in those bagged pet foods... you don't want to know, you wouldn't call it food... grain by-products for filler and slaughterhouse slop garbage.
> 
> As for the zoo tank... do fry survive? How many hybrids actually make it?


No offspring survive afaik. There are zero hiding spots and 10 million adult mbuna peacocks and haps with hungry mouths.

As far as what's in cat and dog food, quite often it's cats and dogs. The first ingredients may be flour and beef 'meal' (byproducts), but if you see "meat by products" in the ingredients, odds are it's rendered cat and dog. Where do you think all the cats and dogs vets and shelters put down end up? They end up in cat and dog food. Youtube it. It's a fact.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

The "potato chip vs. steak" analogy for flakes vs. pellets is poor, to put it kindly. It's more accurate to compare them as baloney vs. sausage; they have similar nutritional value, it's just a matter of shape. "Steak" would be live foods, which I try to feed my carnivorous species on a regular basis. For vegetarian fish I keep large masses of Guppy Grass (Najas) available in their tanks, which also helps with controlling nitrogenous waste. But they all eat flakes and pellets, as well.

Besides, it is good for the fish to have to work for their food. In the wild they would still have to work far harder to get a day's nutrition. I've had 6 inch fish that would pick at the bbs I was feeding their fry. I think they enjoyed it!


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

pablo111 said:


> noki said:
> 
> 
> > What is put in those bagged pet foods... you don't want to know, you wouldn't call it food... grain by-products for filler and slaughterhouse slop garbage.
> ...


yes if its on youtube it has to be a fact. hahahaha WHAT?


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## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

fry survive, you can see a few if you look carefully... otherwise you have a premise that every fish in that tank is at least eight years old....


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## PiccoloJr (Oct 14, 2013)

pablo111 said:


> noki said:
> 
> 
> > What is put in those bagged pet foods... you don't want to know, you wouldn't call it food... grain by-products for filler and slaughterhouse slop garbage.
> ...


A little off topic but you should't be feeding your cat or dog food with "by-product" in the ingredients.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

rennsport2011 said:


> fry survive, you can see a few if you look carefully... otherwise you have a premise that every fish in that tank is at least eight years old....


I can't see any...


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## Marconi (Oct 7, 2013)

I wonder if the Zoo Keeper has a favorite one lol.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Marconi said:


> I wonder if the Zoo Keeper has a favorite one lol.


Yea it's 'That One'


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

pablo111 said:


> Where do you think all the cats and dogs vets and shelters put down end up?


Chinese restaurants. :thumb:


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

hahahahaha


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Marconi said:


> I wonder if the Zoo Keeper has a favorite one lol.


Actually based on our conversation 8 years ago... most of the people in "fish" at the zoo can't name most of the species in that tank. The whole operation is quite sad.


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