# German Blue Ram hasn't ate in weeks it seems



## Broodwich

I've had this ram for almost 5 months now (bought with a paired female) he's a little over an inch/inch and a quarter long. 3 weeks ago after a failed spawning he was being bullied by the female a lot (she wanted him to fan the infertile eggs but he wanted nothing to do with them) at that time he became pale'er and would stay at the top back of tank during the day, and bottom at night. he eventually semi returned to normal but the female is now the dominant one where the male use to chase the female almost to the point where i was worried for her life. The rams have since spawned again (also a failure) as the male doesn't want anything to do with the eggs once again. He acts fairly normal regardless of not eating (tho he seems to bump into things more and isn't as aggressive as he use to be), he also seems to be more gold now up behind the gills. at feeding time he comes up to the top and looks at the food (while the female is attacking every piece of food she can get like he use to) but he doesn't eat. however after feeding i do find him pecking at the substrate for quite some time (eco complete).

I did find this post: viewtopic.php?t=179012 which brought me here, and i'm wondering if maybe the tank size might have something to do with it?

Tank stats:

15g tall

Temp 84
PH 7.6
nitrates 0-5ppm (if that)
ammonia 0-.25ppm
Weekly water change (3-4gallons)

Planted tank w/ coconut hut, driftwood, small rocks
eco complete 2-3" deep
dosed (complete flourish line)

Tank mates:

1 female German Blue Ram
3 Ember Tetras
2 Cardinal Tetras (recent addition after ram stopped eating)
1 Oto Cat
3 amano shrimp
2 assassin snails (also recent addition due to MTS outbreak)

I will attach Photo's ASAP and edit this post

Youtube Video(s)

when it started: 





about a week later (fish comes in at 1:10)





and most recent:


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## Broodwich

I've tried feeding him Freeze Dried Blood Worms, as well as the usual selection of Tetra flake, Crab Cuisine (amano treat but rams/everyone love it), algae tab, hakari cichlid pellets.


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## BelieveInBlue

My bet is on the ammonia. Rams are sensitive fish, and german rams are even more so. If you've had them for five months and have not moved them since, then something must've caused the tank to uncycle itself. Overfeeding/overdosing on fertilizers may also do the trick. Your tank does not seem overstocked, and a 15g is fine for a single pair of rams. High temperature also causes high metabolism, which means the rams do not live as long, which, combined with their naturally short life span, may also be why he's starting to hide away; fish tend to find crevices/caves to curl up in when they're about to die. The pH is also a bit higher than normal for rams, though it's not that important, especially not for non-wild ones, and the KH/GH are what really matters. However, I would still say that the ammonia is the reason your ram isn't eating as he suually does.


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## Broodwich

Thanks for the reply, the ammonia levels have always been 0-.25ppm the idea of uncycling isn't a bad one tho. As i'm definitely guilty of overfeeding them recently (MTS is a sign of that i believe). This all started after that one spawn a few weeks ago tho (which the temps have also gone up significantly). i have my heater set to 82 but due to the lights and the amount of heat we've had lately the tank seems to sit at 84. The fertilizer was also a concern of mine, i've just started dosing the full line of flourish around the time this started where i use to only use excel/leaf zone and flourish complete (i've since added trace/nitrogen/phosphorus to the schedule).

i'm unsure of the GH of my water but i know my KH is 5-6. when i do water changes i use stress coat (just trying to use up so i can use the Prime i have), I do 20-30% (3-4gallons) water changes every sunday like clockwork. My Amano shrimp like to pick off any sick or dying fish (they've taken out 5-6 over the life of the tank).

Sorry i know there's a lot of info here and i'm probably all over the place. I definitely appreciate the reply, and I'll be testing my ammonia and nitrates again today.

i'll edit this post with the results.


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## Cichlidman14

It's most likely due to territorial issues, you might not have a long length for the tank. If he's not eating, try live foods that always appeals to fish.

Sincerely,
Cichlidman14


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## Broodwich

been doing water changes every other day to try and help, he's still not eating from me but is pecking at the ground and mating with the female.


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## Cichlidman14

Did u try the live food, if he is pecking at the ground and mating and not hiding then he should be okay, do u think he is eating any of your shrimp, u never know, also if he is breeding then he should be in good condition.


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## Broodwich

Cichlidman14 said:


> Did u try the live food, if he is pecking at the ground and mating and not hiding then he should be okay, do u think he is eating any of your shrimp, u never know, also if he is breeding then he should be in good condition.


Negative on the live food, I will try that this week thanks!!


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## Cichlidman14

Ok


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## Broodwich

Picked up some today, he didn't go for it but tomorrow is another day.


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## Cichlidman14

alrighty


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## Broodwich

Still nothing, won't eat from my hand 

He seems to be preferring vegetation now as i've seen him munching on a few of my plants. Still comes up to the top of the tank during feeding time and seems interested but doesn't eat.

his colors are pretty weak right now even tho he is active he doesn't act like a cichlid normally does when you approach the tank (hungry dog act). He's very pale almost yellowish, his stomach isn't concave but he's definitely slim/slender.


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## walzon1

you need to quarantine the fish, to see what the problem.
These fish are extremely sensitive could be a problem with it's tank mates, could be the water quality who knows. so quarantine home in 10g with nothing else in it no lights, plants, gravel. Treat the tank with salt and heat it at around 82 to rule out something internal. Make sure the water is around 10ppm nitrate to rule out dirty water. This way you can also judge exactly how much it is eating.


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## walzon1

Sorry the temp should be at 86, I was thinking central american for a sec.


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## Broodwich

Finally saw him eat a little today  not much but some regardless.


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## Cichlidman14

Yay hope he eats some more


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## Broodwich

so i removed him from the tank into a bucket for 2 months, no real change to his state. I tried re-introducing him to the tank... that lasted all of 30-60 minutes as he was ghost white under my lighting and laying in my plant stems while getting chased by the female.

I was given a small 5.5g which i upgraded him to over a month ago. I also heard about API General Cure and tried a treatment of that but still not much change  I figured I'm dealing with parasites but still not 100% positive. I never see any of my fish poop >.<

Here we are about 4 months from my original post and he's still kicking but UGH!!!!! I'm going to see if i can bring him to my LFS where i got him maybe they can bring him back? or should i continue what i'm doing. I have some LIFEGUARD that i was given by the same friend as the 5.5 i suppose i could try that right?


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## Cichlidman14

You can bring him back but you won't get a refund,
Why not just keep him in the 5.5 and treat him and let him live out his life in their.


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## Broodwich

Cichlidman14 said:


> You can bring him back but you won't get a refund,
> Why not just keep him in the 5.5 and treat him and let him live out his life in their.


Yea definitely keeping him, I'm in this for the long run.

The 5.5 was running with no filter just water changes 2-3 times a week. I upgraded the whisper 30 on my main tank so i slapped it onto the 5.5 so i could add carbon to help remove any remaining General Cure that may or may not be left in the water (doubtful do to the amount of water changes i do). Although there was still good bacteria in the filter i don't think he liked it that much as he went through a week-10 days of floating at the top and a bout of clamp tail...

I started adding a small dose of Aquarium salt (diluted in water first) at my water change(s). He's come back greatly since then, no more clamp tail and even has some of the black spot on his back returning. I'd really like to put him back with the other fish at some point. But if I have to I'll let him live his life in the 5.5

Also sorry for the late replies, not sure why i haven't been getting notifications from this thread, i'll recheck the radio button.


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## Broodwich

Still fighting the good fight with this guy.

He's been doing really really well but i've been having trouble getting his blacks to color up. he stays fairly pale until he's eating. I stopped dosing the aquarium salts for about 2 weeks, but decided to go back as he started flashing a little again. I also started dosing Melafix just to be safe and help with any bacterial infection(s).

Until this morning when i found him vertical in the corner of the tank and fairly un resposive. after about 20-30 seconds of the light being on he finally decided to move from the corner swimming sideways and erradically darting around  after about 30-60 seconds of that i noticed he was working a nice reddish color poop out (i was frantically testing water at that point). once he pooped however he returned to a fairly normal state. I hit him with a dose of stress coat (to calm him a lil hopefully) but i'm starting to be at a loss with this. my new thoughts is maybe it's Chilodonella or Columnaris? as his symptoms seem(ed) similar at one point or another. UGH!

I also swear he eats his poop as he cleans the tank floor at night leaving little/nothing in the morning (where there was poop at one point)... I've upped my water changes again as well to help hopefully (my ammonia and nitrate check today were fairly normal 5-10 0(a)).


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## Iggy Newcastle

Was the poop streaked with the red coloring? Or a solid red? What color foods have you been feeding?


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## Broodwich

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Was the poop streaked with the red coloring? Or a solid red? What color foods have you been feeding?


normally it's a solid red, sometimes there's some white stringyness to it. I feed him Southern Delight Flake, Veggie Krill, and Cichlid Pellets.

here's a video of him just the other day.


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## Broodwich

sorry the color of the foods are Southern Delight Flake (yellow, brown, red/pink), Veggie Krill (brown), and Cichlid Pellets (red and black).


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## Iggy Newcastle

Perhaps the red poop coincides with the red food?


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## Broodwich

well yea, but i'm trying to get him to color up not his poop  are you saying that since it's the color of his food that's why he's eating it?

also strange that he's been doing better and all of a sudden this morning crashed hard.

On a side note the heater in his tank was being a real POS (fluctuating 4-6 degrees in either direction of what i set it at (8-12 degrees total)) so i replaced it, the new one is holding a solid steady temp.

Also no episodes that i've seen since this morning. I've started vacuuming out any feces that is in the tank before feeding to hopefully cut down on any possible issues from that.


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## Iggy Newcastle

I forgot you mentioned about him eating poop. My guess is that he may pick through it, breaking it up and eventually makes it's way to the filter. I asked about the color to see if it was streaked with red/blood.

Sure someone will chime in with a possible course of action. You may want to post some updated water parameters, just to be sure everything is good there. Good catch on the heater.


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## Broodwich

not a problem, i honestly and truely appreciate the help and replies. No blood in the stool that i can make out.

As for parameters i'm not sure of the GH/KH but the KH was usually around the 5/6 mark.

as for for the rest

Ammonia 0

Nitrates 5 maybe 10ppm tops

PH is 7.4/7.5

This sick tank has been up about 2-3 months i'd say, and has the same parameters as my 15g column (seen in the videos as well). I keep temps around 82f, and regularly do water changes (about 30-40%) once a week (lately every 3 days on the sick tank).


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## Broodwich

I narrowed it down to 3 things i think it could be. I'm treating for 2 of those 3 right now, being Columnaris, Ich, and or hole in the head or some parasite.

I'm treating for Columnaris/ich right now (as per another fish owners advice) with Kanaplex and Furan2 (today is the last day of this treatment). He seems to be coloring up a little bit but still acts kinda lethargic (bumping into things, not as active as the female, doesn't "dog" against the glass when i'm near). The General Cure helped with his white poop and sucked in stomach originally so i'm thinking it's still a parasite as well as he has some faint pale splotches above his mouth in front of his eyes and his occasional flasing (which seems to have almost all but stopped, have to keep a closer eye).

I suppose I could be expecting changes to quickly as well so I'm trying to keep that in mind and may hold off on treating with General Cure again.

I have grabbed a GH/KH kit but still need to test.


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## Cichlidman14

His color might not be up due to the lack of hiding spots. Add some driftwood and plants and see if that helps. Try some beef heart that seems to get my rams colors up. Glad to hear he is better.


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## Broodwich

Cichlidman14 said:


> His color might not be up due to the lack of hiding spots. Add some driftwood and plants and see if that helps. Try some beef heart that seems to get my rams colors up. Glad to hear he is better.


ugh, so i've been debating on putting an old Coconut shell hut/house as a spot for him to hide. In the mean time it's been business as usual (until today). Yesterday i did the normal sunday 2-3g water change and today when i turned the light to the tank on and he's lost almost all black color. He was doing so well.... I immediately did a water test (nitrates and ammonia seem to be spiking a little), I think it might be the tank recycling itself thanks to the medications i've added.

Waiting for water to come up to temp so i can give him a big 50-70% water change now, hopefully that does the trick. He's very ghost white and has lost almost all of his black striping/pigment  His pooping is almost 100% normal (he drops some large ones heh), i see almost no white stringyness anymore, Just wish eh would pick it up so i could add him back to the main tank.


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## Broodwich




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