# what kind of sand should i use



## MDK419 (Aug 5, 2011)

Whould it be a good ideal to us walmart sand that you put in a sand box for your tank?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

you can use play sand but 90% of aquarium keeper's will say use POOL FILTER SAND (PFS) it's a heavier grain and look's better IMO.

And *Welcome to the forum*


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## MDK419 (Aug 5, 2011)

a thanks i just didint know if the pool filter sand was for the filter or lol but now i know.im also puting in half gravel.Ill post pictures when its all done.Itll be like two or three weeks becuase i just set her up two days ago.I had a oscar once and cichlids (but not in the same tank)and i lost 2 cichlid sold the other and the oscar kepting beating him self up becuase i moved in with my dad and he whouldnt let me bring it with me.Put **** yea im going to go get the sand in a HR.thanks


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

All sand is not created equally, a lot of things play into it like where it is quarried and how much it is screened. Take a look at the sand that you are thinking about, look at grain size and color (Wet color will be a little darker than what you see in the bag usually, though not always). If you like it, use it.

The finer the grain the harder it will be to clean. You want to stay away from sand that has a lot of clay in it. PFS usually has a larger grain, but I have seen play sand that is pretty much indistiguishable. Other sources of sand on the cheap is stuff they call "paver sand" for packing around stepping stones in a garden (personally I like this because it usually has some tiny aggregate or pebbles mixed in to make it look more natural), "Commercial grade" sand they make for adding to cement, "traction sand", and "all-purpose" sand. The stuff comes in all kinds of grades, colors, and compositions and pretty much all of it is safe to use once it is cleaned.

One thing I would stay away from is quickcrete's new "polymer modified" sands. It will say so on the bag, and a lot of them come in colors like 3m colorquartz, however it has stuff listed about how it inhibits weed growth and repels insects which likely means it has some sort of chemical additive that we probably won't want in our tanks.


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## Nwright36 (Jul 27, 2011)

i use cichlid sand in my 55 and so far i am very pleased with it...i use tahiti black moon i believe is the name


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

I have one tank with black blasting sand in #20 grit (same as PFS), which retails for 410 for 88lbs. I don't like the ghastly white of most PFS.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

*BillD,* $410 for only 88lbs!?!?!?!?!?!?!


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I'm hoping he meant $4.10.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

GaFishMan1181 said:


> I'm hoping he meant $4.10.


Ya me to.


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## allierw (Apr 20, 2006)

I usually use PFS or pavers sand but used play sand for the first time yesterday...we had some left over from a landscaping project. It is a nice brighter white than PFS and only needed a couple rinses. Tank was cloudy for about 12 hours but with filters running, sponges over the intakes it cleared up and looks good now. I wouldn't hesitate to use it again.


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## chris777 (Jun 27, 2008)

I use playsand in all my tanks and have no issues with it.. It's really personal preference on what you use.


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## MDK419 (Aug 5, 2011)

allierw said:


> I usually use PFS or pavers sand but used play sand for the first time yesterday...we had some left over from a landscaping project. It is a nice brighter white than PFS and only needed a couple rinses. Tank was cloudy for about 12 hours but with filters running, sponges over the intakes it cleared up and looks good now. I wouldn't hesitate to use it again.


yea im haveing the same problem. what kind of sponges did you use it?


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## johnc87 (Jul 26, 2011)

i just converted my 55 from gravel to PFS this morning. wasnt very thrilled about the color when i started rinsing it as it was alot darker but after i got in the tank and everything in place it looks 100 times better and way better than gravel.


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

He forgot the decimal. I just got 100lbs of that for 7 bucks.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> *BillD,* $410 for only 88lbs!?!?!?!?!?!?!


LOL. That would be $10 for 88lbs., or $7.50 for 50lbs


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

BillD said:


> Aulonocara_Freak said:
> 
> 
> > *BillD,* $410 for only 88lbs!?!?!?!?!?!?!
> ...


Wheww MUCH BETTER! :lol:


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## allierw (Apr 20, 2006)

MDK419 said:


> yea im haveing the same problem. what kind of sponges did you use it?


I just took a sponge from an aquaclear filter and cut it into smaller rectangles and forced a hole in the middle, enough to push it on over the intake. Nothing fancy.


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## MDK419 (Aug 5, 2011)

thanks guys.


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

allierw said:


> MDK419 said:
> 
> 
> > yea im haveing the same problem. what kind of sponges did you use it?
> ...


Lol, I used the exact same thing too! I use the ones for the aquaclear 55 sizes and just simply stab it with a knife in the center of the end. Then slide it up the intake tube so that the bottom of the tube is just past the halfway point.

This makes great prefilters for use in baby tanks as well as newly-setup tanks with cloudy substrates (like sand or Fluorite).


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

MDK419 said:


> Whould it be a good ideal to us walmart sand that you put in a sand box for your tank?


I personally haven't tried the walmart sand, although I HAVE looked at that as an option. I've finally rejected that in favor of other options below. Main reason is: very dirty, dangerous (to burrowers and the impellers in powerheads and powerfilters). About the only thing it has going for it is that it's probably the cheapest option.



Aulonocara_Freak said:


> you can use play sand but 90% of aquarium keeper's will say use POOL FILTER SAND (PFS) it's a heavier grain and look's better IMO.


I agree, I have used PFS and I love it! It is now one of 4 types of substrates I primarily use.



Nwright36 said:


> i use cichlid sand in my 55 and so far i am very pleased with it...i use tahiti black moon i believe is the name


That's another primary substrates I use nowdays too.

There are many other substrates out there, but the 4 I list below are those I have personally used, now and in the past, that I liked. I'm listing them in alphabetical order as each is the best substrate I found for my specific needs:

1) Fluorite black sand: It's a very fine grain substrate that is designed for use with plants, especially those plants that has fine roots (like Echinodorus tenellus or Sagittarius terres). It has a nice, even, solid black color that works well in tanks that need to be dark to bring out the colors of fishes better (like many tetras, for example). But it has a tendency to compact, and in some cases clump into solid masses, which makes substrate cleaning somewhat difficult sometimes. However, for me, that's not a problem, as in those tanks that has this substrates, it's full of ground cover plants (E. tenellus, etc.) which covers the entire growth area(s), in addition to other plants. I tend to just vacuum just over the tops of the ground cover plants to suck up the loose debris. It's the second most expensive substrate, after CaribSea's Tahitian Moon (sb). I paid about $30 for a 15# bag, that comes out to $2/#.

2) Pool Filter Sand: This sand is inert and wont support any plant life. It's purely decorative in that respect. However, it's a great substrate for those small fishes and animals that tends to burrow in the sand. That's because the grain size (#20) is small and smooth enough to be safe for those said burrowers without injuring them. The brand I use (I'll look for a picture of the bag's labeling and get back to you guys on what brand I use) has a overall standard beach sand color (off-white to almost tan color) with enough grains of other types and color to break up the otherwise would be monotonous coloration. In fact, it looks like natural beach sand I'd find around the island shores. (BTW, I DON'T use the beach sand in my tanks for several reasons. I'll go over the reasons in some future post if anyone is interested. LMK) Second most cheapest, after the Natural "Aquarium" Sand (sb). I paid $25 for a 50# bag, this comes out to about $0.50/#.

3) Natural "Aquarium" Sand: I THINK it is a #8 size grain. Unfortunately, I did not take a picture of the bag, nor did I record the brand and size of this great substrate. The individual grains is about 1-2mm in size average. It's labeled as an 'aquarium' sand, but what's unusual about this one is that it does not appear to be coated with epoxy like those found in LFS. I actually found it in a specialist shop that provides sands and other materials for use as filters and blasting media in commercial and industrial applications. They said their supplier has this 'specialty' sand available and an employee is an avid fishkeeper so has ordered some for his own use. I've mentioned this sand to a few LFS owners and they've since have added this sand to their substrate inventory too!  Of course, at a higher price tho.  I'll continue getting this sand from the sand media shop tho. 

Compared to other substrates in this list, it's a close race with PFS, with it just barely photo-finishing ahead of PFS for the title as cheapest substrate, pound for pound. I paid $20 for a 50# bag, which comes out to $0.40/#.

Anyway, this sand has a multi-colored grain because it's an evenly random mix of various different types of materials. It's mostly warm colors (browns, reds, yellows) with a few grays, blacks and white-ish colors. On close examination, it looks like a mix of crystalline, igneous and sedimentary rocks of various types. This fairly fine gravel looks and feels rather smooth and rounded too. However, it's a little too big for use by small creatures like Multis. It may work well for larger burrowing species, but I haven't tried as such yet, so don't take my word for it. However, I HAVE used it in my display tank that has angel and discus fishes. There's minimal plants in that one, but lots of driftwoods. Looks good with them. It's fairly darkish without being garish. It's also easy to clean and doesn't have as much tendency to get sucked up by my gravel siphon cleaner as fine grained sand like PFS.

4) Tahitian Moon from CaribSea: This is a beautiful pure black sand that has shiny surfaces that actually sparkles in the shifting light. However, I don't think it is a good sand for use with burrowers as I'm afraid they might get injured on the sharp edges of the grain. Its a beautiful decorative substrate for use in tanks that has no burrowers and I actually use it in my Tetra community tank to complement these fishes' bright reflective colors. I actually got this sand second hand from someone else on Craigslist/Hawaii. I recently checked out Caribsea's website to look for more Tahitian Moon, which is the new, simpler name for this substrate, it used to be called something like Tahitian Lagoon Black Moon.  While there I was actually amazed that they have a huge variety of substrates for use in the aquarium. I personally haven't tried any of the others, but based on my experiences with the Tahitian Moon, I may try a few others. However, the biggest strike against these substrates, including Tahitian Moon, is the sheer high COST. Yup, it's easily the most expensive substrate, even over the fluorite. I paid $25 for 50# used, was told the price new was almost double @ $45. New price is $45 per 20# bag. That's $2.25/#!

As I'm not the original owner of my supply of Tahitian Moon, it has already been cleaned and used in a tank prior to my purchase of a whole bucket of this stuff. So, I don't know how it is like out of the bag. I'm guessing that cleaning will still be a necessity, maybe not nearly as much as other substrates. Caribsea claims that their products can be used out of bag without any cleaning. I'm rather skeptical of such claims and always assume that cleaning will be necessary. It's better to assume you need cleaning and not have to scoop the stuff out of the tank just to clean it out!

I have a simple rule of thumb (or palm in this case). I run my hand thru a bucket of substrate and pay particular note to how it rubs against my hand and fingers. If it feels rough then it probably IS! If it leaves a layer of dusty or gritty residue, it probably will cloud up and needs cleaning (I use a faintly damp hand, wet and towel dry just before, any more wetter and the sand itself will stick to your hand).

Hope this info is of use to someone else!
-Lance

PS: Please note that prices quoted here is for products sold here in expensive Hawai'i. Everything is more expensive here. Obviously, prices will be different where you are. BUT, I think the relationship of the prices of each product to each other should be fairly constant. Of course, there will be exceptions. Please remember I showed what prices i found here just for the purposes of illustrating the RELATIVE prices of each to each other. Also note that the prices for the "Aquarium" Sand may be out of date, as I've bought that 50# bag almost 3 years ago, just before the recession 'officially' started. :roll:


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

Ah, I forgot to add this:

1.1) Fluorite (black, dark): These are actually 2 different fluorite that are basically slightly different. The main difference is that one is black and the other is a very dark maroon-red color. They also have minor differences in it's mineral contents of which I ain't gonna go into. If you wanna find out more on this, check out SeaChem's website. These two are significantly larger, at approx 0.20" (3-5mm), but is not too large. The older versions were even bigger (0.25"+/6mm+) which is too big for use in aquariums, especially smaller ones. I usually end up smacking these with a rubber mallet to make the grains a bit smaller. Needless to say, I'm quite happy that they came out with the smaller size. I dunno if they still provide the larger size (and don't care).

The newer size is still useable in a bigger tank (like 4' tanks and larger). They still get quite cloudy and needs vigorous rinsing. These are quite good for larger rooted plants and those plants that need soil aeration. The prices is basically the same as that of Fluorite Black Sand, $30/15# bags, which is about $2/#.

Thanks for yer patience on reading my lengthy posts.
-Lance


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Depending on where you live, this might be a possibility. http://www.redflint.com/filtration.htm note that the PFS and aquarium sand are the same grit size, #20.


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

BillD said:


> Depending on where you live, this might be a possibility. http://www.redflint.com/filtration.htm note that the PFS and aquarium sand are the same grit size, #20.


Looks interesting, definitely will include in my short list of possible candidates for substrates. Also gonna be interesting to see how much it'd cost me to ship Red Flint Sand to Hawai'i. :]


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## cichlid8987 (Aug 10, 2011)

hi im new to this i have a 55 gal tanks with cichlids i dont know all the types but i have a female with eggs in her mouth but i would like to know if its a bad idea or it doesnt matter if i change the bed rock into play sand im tired of the rocks alot of people told me that if i change the rocks out ill kill all my live bacteria an kill my fish right now my tank is stabel but the nitrates are sky rocked i guess bc i feed alot i dont know what to do also to get the nitrate down ppl have said do a rock syphon but only like 20 to 30 % i hate rocks this is an accedental spanwn i didnt try i thought up to about 3 days ago i had all males i was wrong lol but if anyone has any ideas what i can do to get the nitrates down an keep the babys i would love the help thanks ohh by the way she just layied the eggs last night an im guessing the fertilized now that there in her mouth


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## mbeattyptc (Jan 25, 2008)

I used Quickrete medium sand....ordered from Home Depot....it's great....very little cleaning involved and did not change the quality of my water.


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## cichlid8987 (Aug 10, 2011)

My local pet store had agronite on sale for 10 bucks for 30!pounds is that a good kind tip use


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

cichlid8987 said:


> hi im new to this i have a 55 gal tanks with cichlids i dont know all the types but i have a female with eggs in her mouth but i would like to know if its a bad idea or it doesnt matter if i change the bed rock into play sand im tired of the rocks alot of people told me that if i change the rocks out ill kill all my live bacteria an kill my fish right now my tank is stabel but the nitrates are sky rocked i guess bc i feed alot i dont know what to do also to get the nitrate down ppl have said do a rock syphon but only like 20 to 30 % i hate rocks this is an accedental spanwn i didnt try i thought up to about 3 days ago i had all males i was wrong lol but if anyone has any ideas what i can do to get the nitrates down an keep the babys i would love the help thanks ohh by the way she just layied the eggs last night an im guessing the fertilized now that there in her mouth


Sir or madam, while I'm rather loose on my punctuation (especially when I'm hitting the forums on my cellphone), a LITTLE punctuation would be nice. It's kinda hard to understand what you're writing when your entire post is ONE sentence. Anyway, welcome to C-F! to parse your sentence...

Your female mouthbrooder may get upset and swallow her eggs mainly cuz of the disruption the changeover would cause. Imagine trying to be calm and suddenly someone yanks out all your flooring with a 'dozer without warning.

Unless you have an undergravel filter system installed in your tank, I'd not worry so much about the beneficial bacteria in your rock substrate. Without a UGF, there is most likely not enough oxygen-rich water flow into and thru your rock to sustain a large population of beneficial bacteria, if anything, only at the surface of the uppermost portions of your substration. In such cases, most of the benny bacterias are found on the surfaces of the tank and in your power filters.

If your nitrates has skyrocketed, you need to do a water change and soon. Next you need to moderate your feeding. Put in just enough fish food so that most, if not all, of the food is consumed within 2-3 minutes. If a lot is not being eaten, do RESIST the temptation to put more food in as that will only be wasted and contribute to your nitrate problem. Also, if you have a lot of food left over after 3 minutes, I suggest you vacuum them up and remember to use less food next time.

You are supposed to do regular water changes, the exact amount and interval depends on the specific application. This is an unavoidable reality of fish keeping. Remember, in the natural wild, the habitat has a continuous water change going on at all time (unless it's a standing pool environment the fish came from, but I digress). This is nature's way of keeping the pollution under control. Unfortunately, there's no constant water change in the aquarium, and it'd be quite expensive to do so. The best compromise is to do regular water changes. The purpose is to keep the ammonia/nitrates/nitrites and other pollutants down, restore whatever trace minerals that was in the water that was consumed by the flora or fauna in the tank, and remove any solid wastes and gunk that gets left drifting around in the bottom.

The easiest way to do this would be to use a gravel filter siphon to kill two birds at same time. Not only will you drain some water out for the water change part, but you can also at same time suck up any crud and other wastes drifting on the bottom. You also will do the gravel cleaning at the same time by gently shoving the end of the siphon partway into the gravel to get at the crud that has drifted in between the gravel particles.

The exact amount of water drained and how frequently it's done depends on the size of tank (bigger tank generally less often), the stocking level (more fish means more often), how much crud builds up (more crud means more often). This is something you gonna have to get the feel for your specific setup. Since you know what your nitrate levels is, I assume this means you have a test kit. Use it and let it be your guide to how often/much water change to do.

I better stop at this point as this particular post is off subject...

-Lance

PS: If you still have further questions on this point, feel free to pm me or post your question in a new thread (after checking if there's no recent thread already on your particular subject).


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## chinds78 (Jun 22, 2011)

This black blasting sand you speak sounds interesting. Does it look similar to black tihitian sand? I may have to look into that for my next tank. 

I currently have PFS in my 45g tank and I like it. I do wish it were a little lighter, but it looks good with the sandstone rocks I collected from a nearby stream.


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## jerry11 (Aug 25, 2011)

Yes, this black blasting sand... Whet can one buy that? I would like to check that out. Maybe a mix of that an quickcrete medium or paver sand would look good.


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

chinds78 said:


> This black blasting sand you speak sounds interesting. Does it look similar to black tihitian sand? I may have to look into that for my next tank.
> 
> I currently have PFS in my 45g tank and I like it. I do wish it were a little lighter, but it looks good with the sandstone rocks I collected from a nearby stream.


Aloha chinds78, Im not sure if youre referring to my posts, but to answer your two questions...

I generally dont use any blasting media in my tanks for several reasons. Mainly made of materials that has sharp edges (look at it under a microscope, it looks like a cube or a block or even a wedge shape that may have a knife edge) and is usually hard (and brittle). The end result is that while pretty with the lights sparkling off the facets of each grain, its sharp edges may injure substrate burrowers like loaches, catfishes, and small bulldozers like Multis. Plus if caught up in a powerhead or power filter, Im afraid of it damaging the impellers.

I must admit that I suspect that the Tahitian Black Moon substrate may be made of a material closely related to blasting media. With that in mind, in an effort to preserve my rather expensive power filters (Aquaclears), i tend to adjust the total flow rate of each filter down and use more filters in the same tank. I also take an extra precaution of using a prefilter (as mentioned in one of our earlier posts in this thread). The end result is that I have a slow, gentle flow out of double the number of filters. This is actually a good thing for me as the Tahitian substrate is being used in my tetra display tank.

Now regarding your wish that pfs was a little lighter, you could try play sand, which tends to be a lot lighter (almost pure white in some cases). Its too light for me, makes me feel like im using powdered sugar in my tank sometimes. However, just remember not everyone makes play sand the same way. You gotta shop around some and try ask to see a sample of their sands in stock. Hey come to think of it, this also applies to pfs too. *** personally have found 3 basic variations of pfs here. One is rather grey, one is pretty stark white (think salt and ye aint too far off) and, the one I like, looks most like the tan beach sand (sounds like the one you have).

*** mixed substrates before, and if youre willing to take the time and expense (in the case of ending up with an undesired color/texture combo), you could make your own custom substrates. For example, black fluorite sand is a boring dull black color, generally its not visible under the ground cover tank, but where I have aquascaped my tank so that there is an open space, I have mixed in ~25% Tahiti Black Lagoon into the visible area. End result is a planted substrate that has some sparkle. In your case, you could try mix in some play sand that is lighter in shade.

Word of advise, before you start mixin by the buckets, Id suggest doing a small test run. I have several of those awful 5" round goldfish bowl with two flat sides. I never use those things for fishes (I got em cuz had friends and relatives who tried keeping fishes in those itty-bitty prison cells, gave up after the fishes keep dying, and then give me their stuffs). Do your test run in those small tanks or bottles WITH water in it. The substrate always look different underwater as opposed to dry. Once you get the desired look with your test samples, you can then confidently mix it by the bucket with good assurance that it should look close to what you wanted.

Adios and Mahalo
-Lance


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## Lanaka (May 18, 2011)

jerry11 said:


> Yes, this black blasting sand... Whet can one buy that? I would like to check that out. Maybe a mix of that an quickcrete medium or paver sand would look good.


Aloha jerry11;

Try check out an industrial park or the yellow pages under blaster or strippers. Just be aware that stuffs like quickcrete and pavers sand may have chemicals added. Make sure you read the fine print that lists its ingredients. Or when in doubt, ASK the guy there.

Reason why Im posting so, is I have recently read some books on setting up outdoor ponds and one of the methods involve pouring concrete as the base. One of the books actually spent most of a chapter on how to make sure the concrete wont leech chemicals into the water and potentially kill your pond fishes. You wouldnt want that to happen to a pond full of quality koi fishes. Thousands of $US!

Heck, *** even see much coverage on making concrete swimming pool safe!

CiaÃƒÂ²s, Lance.


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