# Rescued Cichlids - First Time Fish Owner, 1 Month Progress



## JFourK (May 2, 2017)

Hello Everyone.
I have been debating how to make this first post because the reason why I became a Cichlid owner and everything I have done to get to my current tank setup has been a long (probably uninteresting) story&#8230;

I have never cared for/owned fish. I have a Beagle and an Eastern Box Turtle (that I have had for 30 years). BUT my girlfriend and I take in or try and take care of any animals in the neighborhood that seem displaced or hurt (usually stray cats or injured pigeons)

*Backstory:*
A guy in my office had a 25 gallon (estimate) fish tank but he has been working from home for at least 6 months. I noticed the tank was not being tended to so I would go over and feed the fish every day. In December I emailed him and said I would gladly take them home since no one else was really taking care of them. He said thanks and he would let me know&#8230;On April 8th I opened up the lid of the filter and there was almost no water passing through it. The filter pads were covered in this brown sludge. I said fuck this and decided I was just going to take them with me.
I went to the nearest pet store, which is a Petco, and one of the guys there was incredibly helpful. Told me what to do (how to transport them in a large bucket, KEEP as much old water as possible, DO NOT change the filter pads YET, and Clean the tank and parts as best as possible). I broke down the tank got the fish situated in the car and went back to Petco to see if I should just go with a new tank, at least. The guy at Petco was SHOCKED by how many fish were in the tank (more on that later) and said I absolutely needed a new tank. So I got a 38 Gallon Tank. Got them home and spent the next few hours setting everything up.






*TANK 1:*
The fish were in the 38 gallon tank for one week before I started to get the feeling the tank was too small. It was hard to count how many were in there though. I setup a tripod and took pictures of them while they were eating and looked at the pictures on my computer. I estimated that there were 30 Cichlids..ranging in size from half inch to 2 1/2 inches. I asked and showed pictures to every single local pet store and they all agreed. I was over my limit or absolutely at my limit.

The overcrowding PLUS not being able to get the NITRATES down (more on that later) was enough for me to move them over to a 55 gallon tank&#8230;which is the biggest I can fit in my apartment in the space available.



*Regarding the OLD FILTER:*
Penguin 350
I replaced 1 pad in Week 2 and the other pad in Week 3.
In Week 3 I also cleaned the the **** out of the filter.
Also..The Bio Wheels were missing when I took them so I bought 2 new Bio Wheels.

*TANK 2 (Current Tank, Current Setup):*
55 Gallon Tank
2 x Penguin 350 Filters
4 New Filter Pads
4 New Bio Wheels
2 Chambers = Fluval Bio Max (Media Bag)
2 Chambers = Seachem DeNitrate (Media Bag)

NOT using the Mid Tank Extension Arm (was told it decreases the pressure)

2x Corner Filters
-For Oxygen
- Crushed Coral

New Heater
New Air Pump

11 Lava Rocks from old Tanks (not cleaned)

CaribSea Eco-Complete African Cichlid Substrate
Crushed Coral mixed into the Substrate

NOTE: The tank is VERY empty right now. I had plants and stuff in there but I just didn't like it.
For whatever reason Lava Rocks with holes in them are hard to find around here..I am going to 
a full on Tropical Fish store this week in New Jersey to look for them. I want to build a really nice
series of caves of the guys right in the middle of the tank.



Finally...Tank 1 is Empty now and I CANT WAIT to get that going this summer. I am in love with this hobby now.

===============
QUESTIONS/HELP:

*Nitrates. *Ammonia and Nitrites are 0. I have been doing water changes EVERY week because the Nitrates seems really, really high.
I can't get them down below 80ppg. I added in that Seachem DeNitrate hoping it would help but it seems like it's not working.
Question is Should I be worried about the Nitrates now? Or is this part of the process? If I should be worried what can I do besides weekly water changes?

*Aquarium Salt. *Amongst the things I scavenged from the old setup was a carton of API Aquarium Salt. I see a lot of debate online if it's necessary.
What should I do? Does it make a difference?

*Spawning.* There is one fish, a bigger one, who keeps digging these holes. He moves the substrate around all the time. We have a feeling it's to have some babies.
IF this is the case...what the **** do I do?? I have the empty tank as mentioned above and can get that ready if need be.


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## kelih (May 6, 2017)

:thumb: :thumb: Great job for helping those fish and it looks like you have a great tank going. You could use a background or just paint the back of the tank black would bring out the colours of the fish much more.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Nitrates at 80ppm is too high. Did you measure you "incoming" water? It may already be in your tap water.
I have never used aquarium salts, do not see the need for them. 
African cichlids dig all the time, it is in their genes. 
If you cannot handle **** (babies) yet, they let nature take it's course. My fish breed all the time, but I do not try and save any fry (except my Saulosi, I want those fry).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I agree with tanker3. Further I would do daily 50% partial water changes until you get the nitrates down to 10ppm.


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## JFourK (May 2, 2017)

@keith. Thanks! I actually have this LED lightbar behind the tank that cycles through different colors or stays as one color. It looks really good...if it wasn't for that I would have probably painted the back of the tank.

@tanker3. Just did a test before responding..0 Nitrates right from the bath tub spout, which is where I fill up the bucket when I replenish the water.
I will leave out the Aquarium Salt..I read mixed answers when looking it up and even the carton's description doesn't seem ALL that important.
I hear you on nature taking its course..I know they will basically be eaten by the other fish or sucked into the filter but it's make me sad! I hope I'm not in front of the tank when it happens.

@DJRansome. Wow, daily. Okay. I will start doing that tomorrow. The water changes are becoming easier..at first I had no idea what I was doing with the siphon.

QUESTION: When doing the water changes do you have any chemical recommendations? 
For every bucket I fill and pour in I put 1/2 cap of API Stress Coat Plus & API 1/2 cap of API Quick Start.
The guy who left the fish had a bottle of this Kordon Amquel Plus Water Conditioner but I never used that.
Continue doing that or anything else I can add?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would use dechlorinator only. You have replaced/cleaned all the filters and substrate right? Maybe just because you have 30 cichlids you are getting so much nitrate?

So think in terms of 15 fish in the 55G (three species, 1m:4f of each). What kinds of cichlids are they? You could take pics and post in Unidentified if you don't know.

Are you keeping the extra tanks for the overflow? Or rehoming some fish?

Go to a landscape yard for rocks...LFS charge a fortune for them. No need for lava rocks or holey rock. Holey rock is from Texas...who wants to pay to ship rocks? Granite is fine.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Kudos for stepping in on the neglected aquarium.

You've received good advice so far from others. I would add that DeNitrate will not remove nitrate when flow rates exceed 50 gallons per hour, which essentially makes it worthless in most filters. It should be in fine print on the bottle, or on the Seachem website.


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## JFourK (May 2, 2017)

@DJRansome - Yes, at this point everything is brand new as of 1 week ago. 4 Brand New Filter pads across 1 New Filter and 1 Old Filter that has been completely cleaned. Substrate (2 bags of the Caribsea Eco-Complete Cichlid Mix) is brand new.

I know that half of the fish are Yellow Labs just from looking at photos online and comparing.

Re-home. I can definitely use that other tank (38 gallon) tank to split them up and even considered doing it but I was worried it would upset the "natural order", so to speak. There are a few fish in there that stick together and a few that are just straight up jerks! If it doesn't disturb their community I would love to move the smaller fish to the other tank.* Is that a good idea?*

Lava Rocks. Yeah some of the prices I have seen on Amazon seem a little crazy. I think I will just combine the lava rocks I already have to make one big enclosure and add granite like you suggested.

@Iggy - Interesting. I think I will just pull the two bags out then. When I saw the bottle at Petco I thought all my problems would be solved and it's clear now that they aren't doing anything. I'll just add the extra Fluval Bio Max to the chambers or maybe just leave them empty.

Just want to say THANK YOU so much to every one here. Being a complete rookie to this hobby and asking for help can be a little discouraging but ya'll seem really cool!


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## kelih (May 6, 2017)

the nitrate test can be wrong if ammonia is present in the water. I would test for nh3 or try using a different nitrate test. Check the experiation date on the test.


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## JFourK (May 2, 2017)

kelih said:


> the nitrate test can be wrong if ammonia is present in the water. I would test for nh3 or try using a different nitrate test. Check the experiation date on the test.


This is what I find interesting..according to the API Master Test Kit I have used the Ammonia and Nitrite levels are ZERO...and seemingly always have been (I test the water every day). So the tank is devoid of Ammonia and Nitrites but the Nitrates are sky high...I find this so confusing. One of the people I spoke to said this is all part of the Nitrogen cycle...not sure if that's true or if it should go on this long.

The test kit seems to be new. The chemical bottles all have a 2020 expiration date.

Something interesting I found. I follow the directions for the Nitrate test to the letter. The directions are very specific about adding 10 drops of bottle 1 and shaking bottle 2 for 30 seconds before combining them. Then you have to shake the vial for 1 minute and wait for the results. This is what they say to do and the result is always a dark red that matches 40-80 ppg.

Once, just for comparison I did NOT shake bottle 2 before combining them and the results were very different. The reading was much lower..almost zero. This must be a false reading based on the instructions...I assume the chemicals separate in bottle 2 over time and even when you shake it they liquid seems thicker than the other ones.


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## kelih (May 6, 2017)

If you did a 50% water change this would be almost impossible. Try testing your tap water and see what kind of result you get if you get a high readin either your tap water is contaminated or the test is junk, you could also buy a liter of distilled water at the gas station and see if it reads 0 on that. I have never had over 30 nitrate in my tank before.


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## kelih (May 6, 2017)

If the test reading is actually correct search the tank and filters for a dead fish, there has to be something rotting in there for that kind of nitrate lvl.


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## mark_j (Jul 15, 2016)

JFourK said:


> Something interesting I found. I follow the directions for the Nitrate test to the letter. The directions are very specific about adding 10 drops of bottle 1 and shaking bottle 2 for 30 seconds before combining them. Then you have to shake the vial for 1 minute and wait for the results. This is what they say to do and the result is always a dark red that matches 40-80 ppg.
> 
> Once, just for comparison I did NOT shake bottle 2 before combining them and the results were very different. The reading was much lower..almost zero. This must be a false reading based on the instructions...I assume the chemicals separate in bottle 2 over time and even when you shake it they liquid seems thicker than the other ones.


I like the liquid test kit for a new tank when you want relatively accurate ammonia and nitrite readings and are willing to do the work. I now use Tetra test strips: https://www.amazon.com/Tetra-19542-Easy ... B0053PR7P8

They are quick and fairly accurate and test everything I care about except ammonia, I keep the liquid ammonia test kit around for that.


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## mark_j (Jul 15, 2016)

Also, if you are using buckets to do water changes on a 55 gallon, you really need to do yourself a favor and look at this:
https://www.amazon.com/25-Foot-Python-A ... B000255NXC

I think nearly everyone on this forum would agree that this is a good purchase.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Did you do a 50% water change today? What are your new test results with the API kit?


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## JFourK (May 2, 2017)

Hey Everyone..
Just got done doing the water change. Wanted to do it yesterday but I work over nights and I was just too tired.

So...good results here, I think.

Took Pictures along the way.
Every picture LEFT to RIGHT is:
Vial 1 - High Range Ph
Vial 2 - Ammonia
Vial 3 - Nitrite
Vial 4 - Nitrate

Just going to assume everyone is familiar with the color coding via the API Master Test Kit.

*PRE- WATER CHANGE READING:*


*SOURCE WATER. Straight from the Tub Spout. No chemicals*


*Worthless Reading but I checked the water in the tank at 50%*



*POST WATER CHANGE: (included 1/2 cap of API Stress Coat Plus for every 5 gallon bucket..nothing else)*


Big improvement, I think. How long it stays this way should be interesting. If I have to change the water every few days I can live with that (and I will definitely buy that hose that markj suggested..breaking my back climbing up a step stool to fill the tank). My girlfriend and I love these little guys so whatever it takes to keep them healthy.

Two quick questions.
1) Is it possible the high nitrates are sourced from the lava rocks that were in the original tank? I never cleaned them when I put them in the new tank so I am wondering if the rocks being porous would have something to do with it.

2) The owner of a local fish shop has been really helpful. I saw him the other day and he has already heard me worries about the high nitrates and he suggested then (and weeks ago too) that I just let the tank go through its cycle. That the nitrates will rise and fall and I need to give the tank/water at least 3 weeks to go through that cycle.
I know that stands in contrast to what we have been discussing the last few days but I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on his suggestion?

Thanks again!
Also..going to try and get some good photos of each type of cichlid so I can post in the Unidentfied Sub forum


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes it is possible there are nitrates in the lava rock. Try using something else.

I would not ask that LFS owner any questions in the future. The cycle impacts ammonia and nitrite...but nitrates only start when the cycle is well underway and increase thereafter. The only way to make nitrates go down is to remove them by partial water change.

The reason for this is that beneficial bacteria generate nitrates. Your fish generate waste ammonia which feeds the beneficial bacteria. And the bacteria generate waste as nitrates so you know they are alive and functioning. But you have to remove nitrates by removing water during water changes.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Agreed! Although the LFS guy probably has good intentions, he's completely wrong in this case.


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## rookie-cichlid1978 (Mar 28, 2017)

I am a rookie myself with my share of mistakes all in the past 90 days! Fighting water quality is demoralizing but really glad to see that you found this site and are on your way. I am continuing in this hobby because of the prompt and expert advice that I am getting everyday.

To throw in my 2 cents without complicating matters, you may consider a test run with some Anubias Nana or Java fern plants. Just 1 of each type and probably from your fish store. Plants absorb nitrates to grow. They also oxygenate the water. These two types of plants dont need to be "planted" in the substrate (free floating or anchored between rocks), need medium light and no fertilizer or CO2 additions.

My first attempt with cichlids was very successful as they did not go to town ripping the plants to shreds. I am now setting up my new tank with the same hope. The upside if the fish dont eat the plants is that they will absorb some of the nitrates and stabilize the tank as they become part of your tank ecosystem. The downside is that you will be out 10-15 dollars in plants and some cleanup.

Keep in mind that the Rift lakes do not have many live plants but I like the look personally. Good luck!!


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## JFourK (May 2, 2017)

@rookie - Big thanks for that info. At the end of the week I am going to be up by my girlfriends parents house in NJ and they have this big fish specific store and will see if they have these available. I have to go there and maybe a Garden World type store so I can find some new decor for inside the tank.

It's only been a few days and the Nitrates are back up where they were. Luckily I have that Python Hose arriving from Amazon today. Should make these frequent water changes a little less discouraging. I am really going to look to do TWO things..change the existing lava rocks that I transferred from the original/old tank AND re-home some of the fish to the 38 Gallon Tank.

-EDIT-
Forgot to comment on something else you said.
So glad I signed up for this forum...every one that has responded has been really helpful and (more importantly) really nice. I have seen other forums for specific things, like car forums or home theater forums, and when a new person shows up they get **** on or ignored...happy this place isn't like that!


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## rookie-cichlid1978 (Mar 28, 2017)

JFourK said:


> @rookie - Big thanks for that info. At the end of the week I am going to be up by my girlfriends parents house in NJ and they have this big fish specific store and will see if they have these available. I have to go there and maybe a Garden World type store so I can find some new decor for inside the tank.
> 
> It's only been a few days and the Nitrates are back up where they were. Luckily I have that Python Hose arriving from Amazon today. Should make these frequent water changes a little less discouraging. I am really going to look to do TWO things..change the existing lava rocks that I transferred from the original/old tank AND re-home some of the fish to the 38 Gallon Tank.
> 
> ...


One more item to share that was recommended by a moderator. I bought a 1/10hp submersible pump (local neighborhood hardware store with three letters in the name) for the times when I dont need to vacuum my substrate. I connect my garden hose and water the rose bushes in the yard. The nitrates in the water are loved by plants and you dont just throw away the water. It adds to the hardware that you keep for aquarium maintenance but I like the idea that sometimes I am not throwing the water away esepcially in a dry high desert like Denver.
good luck!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Keep in mind I can't think of a time when it would not be a good idea to vacuum substrate with every water change. Why leave waste in the tank?


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## JFourK (May 2, 2017)

I received and tried the Python hose the other day.
That thing is like a gift from God. So easy and clean. 
Draining the tank took some time but filling it back up was a matter of minutes.
Doing these frequent water changes is not going to be something I think twice about now...just put on a podcast and let it rip.

@DJRansome - Done and done. I gave it a good cleaning on Monday. Will do it every time.


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## JFourK (May 2, 2017)

Hello Everyone..
It's been a bit but I am back with a question...this may be better suited for a different sub forum and if that's the case please let me know.

I just figured this thread has sort of become a way for myself to keep track of the progress I have made.

First..well, progress.
Here is what we finally look like:









Plenty of hiding spaces and keeping an eye on the water and things have been going great!

Then..we saw this:


















As soon as we spotted this I started googling "gravel in cichlid mouth" and quickly found a thread on THIS very forum where I learned the term "holding".
Do you guys think that's what this is?

Yesterday I express shipped this breeder box that hangs outside the tank..didn't like it though so I went to Petco and bought this one that floats inside the tank.
Today I drained the tank, removed all the rocks and moved this little one into the breeder box.
She seems really stressed out though and I am thinking about just letting things happen naturally.... :?

BUT if shes not holding..and it is a stuck piece of gravel is there anything I can do?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you are going to raise the fry, better to get a separate tank, filter and heater. A 20G would work to raise the average 20 fry to the size of 2" for rehoming or adding them into your adult tank. If you are not ready for all that, let her spit naturally and she will hold again in a couple of months.

I've never heard of an African with gravel in her mouth...but if it DID happen you could just strip her just like you would if there are babies.


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## JFourK (May 2, 2017)

Finally got my laptop back from the Apple Store!

So we are on our way...










That little box that keeps the holding fish isolated was really bothering us. It just looked too stressful..luckily my spoiled brat Box Turtle has 3 tanks so I setup his travel one with a few sponge filters and a heater.
Local fish store said they will take the fry (when they are big enough) and gives us some store credit..but...we will cross the bridge when it's time. I predict we keep them and setup them up in a new tank.


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