# Burundi with mooning?



## ilovecichlid (May 2, 2008)

Hello,

I got a group of 2-3 inches Burundi juvies recently. They are very active and healthy. But today, when I watch closely, I found some of them have a small white speckle on the top (in the middle) of the third and/or forth stripe, very close to the dorsal fin. Is it mooning? If yes, is it good? Or some bad signs of poor breeding?

Sorry I won't be able to take any good pics about them. But I hope I make it clear.

Any suggestion would be very appreciated! thanks!


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

this could be an interesting discussion... 8) 
IMO, a small break should not be considered defective. i have received wild imports with slight breaks, and some of my older stock, have developed a bit of mooning with age. although i have only bred frontosa to the third generation, i have not seen this slight defect progress, or distort, the appearance of any fry i have produced. but i have seen some very distorted fronts, and have always wondered where they originate from.
that said, i am culling fish with this type of bar line from my moba colony this year. when your objective is to breed for sale, then you need to enforce what compliments, and what insults your efforts. in the same way excessive thread finnage is admired, split bars, and even wide white lines, seem to be something that discourages most buyers. zaires, in particular. HTH.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

That is the location of what people call mooning. Some minor mooning will go away and get less white. Like loyd said, mooning is not desired when you sell fry. I too will cull my kapampa fry as needed so I can sell only "high quality" fry. I know a guy who recently got some F1 fry from out of state and three of them had mooning - he was not happy. The breeder ended up taking care of the situation for him.

If you don't intend to breed your fronts, I'd say enjoy them whether they have mooning or not. They are still beautiful fish, you just won't be able to market their fry.

Hope that helps.

Russ


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## ilovecichlid (May 2, 2008)

thanks guys!

I actually got my fish with very cheap price, 10 bucks each for 2-4 inches juvies. Now I know why I can get this deal 

But anyways, they are beautiful fish and I love them.

thanks again! :thumb:


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

ilovecichlid said:


> ...they are beautiful fish and I love them...


That is true and that is what counts. Enjoy your cyphos!


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## ksfishguy (Dec 17, 2006)

Does anyone have photos for a frontosa newbie of what mooning looks like?


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

I have a bit of good news for you. I too recently had some fronts that had small bright white areas of mooning. The fry were tiny, i have had them for 2 months now and had a good plan for water changes weekly and high protein food (i use the highest percentage of protien sinking african pellet no matter the brand , i also suppliment with krill and tubilflex worms (only one brand that i trust ) and also give seaweed once a week in small amounts. The mooning has disappeared completely on some fish and is almost gone on the few worst cases. I highly recommend that you go high protien while they are still juvies and keep good water conditions. It might reverse its self.

here are a couple pics where you can see the remenants of the mooning. Its even hard to make out on the worste cases.:

This fish had it the worst, it was super bright white upside down triangle , like the stripe was going to split. You can see it has filled in and is still filling in. This fish is one inch long now.










This one you can see the two fish on the bottom had it mild and its almost completely gone now :









This is my current alpha burndi juvie, it had a small rounded lighter area of mooning on the widest 3rd stripe when i got him in oct. You can see its totally gone now :


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

double posted sorry.LOL


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## ksfishguy (Dec 17, 2006)

Great explanation and pics, thanks for the info. BTW, your burundi have great color.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

ksfishguy said:


> ...BTW, your burundi have great color.


Yes they do - great color on your Burundi CG!


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

Thank you . I noticed that the mix of reg. and marine glo makes the blue a darker shade of blue while still alllowing all the red and yellow spectrums. Before i could only see that shade of blue on them when the lights were off and there was natural sunlight entering the tank. This current setup looks the same whether lights are on or off. The black sand and background add that last dash of color and help to stablize it in all conditions as well. Makes a big difference.


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## Bearfan (Dec 17, 2007)

How long did it take for this correction to take place? I still have a couple with mooning. I can't say if it's gotten any better. I look at it everyday so can't tell. I can still see it, that's all I know.


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

i got the mpimbwe the first week in april and today i can only see lighter black areas(instead of the bright white ) on one or two of the 11 fish. They went from 1/2 -3/4 inches to a full inch , thats when i started to notice the big difference.


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## ronster (Nov 23, 2003)

so has anyone else got any pics??? Or is everyone too proud to admit to having some and we only photogragh the nice Fronts. Or have they been culled since they were young?

Please post some pics so us noobies dont pay top $$$ in our lfs for less than perfect fronts.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

here is an example of mooning, which i feel, should not disqualify the fish for resale:









and here is an example of one that should be culled before distribution (and force the breeder to reconsider his stock, and his objectives :? ):









to me, the deciding factor to cull, is lack of symmetry. the first fish would make a nice pet, but because the bars run uneven down it's body, it should not make the grade to breeding stock. it's a nice fish, but fact is, we can produce better. 
the second fish, might pose as an example of how far things can go, if we, as breeders, open the door of acceptance too far.


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## ronster (Nov 23, 2003)

thanks for the pics Lloyd, very helpfull as well. When breeders cull do they actually get destroyed or do they get sold on as i've never seen fronts for sale with mooning?


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

Most will destroy them. I have seen where some will give them away for free or huge discounts. Those are usually ones with very mild mooning.


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## allen2 (Dec 16, 2007)

lloyd said:


> this could be an interesting discussion... 8)
> IMO, a small break should not be considered defective. i have received wild imports with slight breaks, and some of my older stock, have developed a bit of mooning with age. although i have only bred frontosa to the third generation, i have not seen this slight defect progress, or distort, the appearance of any fry i have produced. but i have seen some very distorted fronts, and have always wondered where they originate from.
> that said, i am culling fish with this type of bar line from my moba colony this year. when your objective is to breed for sale, then you need to enforce what compliments, and what insults your efforts. in the same way excessive thread finnage is admired, split bars, and even wide white lines, seem to be something that discourages most buyers. zaires, in particular. HTH.


Agreed, IMO split bars/v bars should not be considered a defect. Its just not a natural trait that is desired. Split bars may or may not be passed on to the fry that a split bar front produces. The discussion about "mooning"<-- is a term "made up" here recently when it comes to describing a split bar or v bar, Not a scientific or cultural term by any means.

My favorite Mpimbwe that I have had from 3 inches had 2 perfect V's Beautiful colors and design. I do not breed him but I still enjoy him. He is different. Now in his older age, he is now 7 inches his v's are nearly gone. I feed my fish a variety of foods so I cannot say that one specific type changed him.

Use your discretion when raising split bar fronts. You may feed them many dollars in food and never sell them. Again Split bar fronts also arrive in shipments from the lake, defect or undesirable. I think the later is truly the case.


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