# Giraffes, Jewels and Loaches ???



## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

Im new @ owning cichlids or any larger type fish.

*** been going to just the one aquarium to get my fish. *** now realised after my second visit that they are completely useless. Its a great shop with a wide variety of great fish and excellent products but the people there seem to know nothing and arent helpful.
I first bought a couple of giraffe cichlids but of course the person didnt tell me much about them so I had to look up on the computer when I got home.

I went back a couple of weeks later to put a bit more colour into the tank but after reading up about the Giraffes I wasnt quite sure what I could put with them. I came back with 2 red forest jewels and 2 clown loaches. The shop person said if I had lots of hiding places in the tank then the loaches would be fine. He said nothing about red jewels being agressive but warned me off another type of fish that they were quite agresssive. I think he may just know nothing and is just guessing.

All these fish are young and the giraffes are about 2.5" the red jewels are 3" and the clown loaches are also 3".

My main question: Are these fish all going to eat each other?

Also if they will be fine, what would be some other fish that will fit in in this tank?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

What are the dimensions of your aquarium?


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

H-50cm W-50cm L-125cm So around 82g


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Did you cycle the tank? Parameters? Filtration?


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

It has a large filter in it, and by cycle you mean leave it for a week and add the water conditioning things to it I did all that and the ph levels are good. Im not sure what you mean by parameters though?


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

No, I mean this:http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cycling.php. By parameters I mean ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and hardness (KH and GH)


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

The tank really is going to be too small to keep "giraffes", Nimbochromis venestus, that grow to a good sized 10". The jewels are also substrate spawners and if you got "lucky" enough to have a pair, they would likely attempt to take over the tank, and eliminate all fish in it. If you get two females, they should be ok, but you won't have the bright colours you see in the pictures. If you get two males, one will probably kill the other. Clown Loaches will outgrow the tank too, but that could take years, they are a pretty slow growing fish.

I'm not sure what to say, you've received some pretty terrible fish advice so far.


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## MmmmBalf (Sep 10, 2012)

Assuming by Giraffe you mean N. Venustus? You mention you have a couple - is it a male & a female? If it's 2 males one will end up dead. If they're unsexed juveniles you'll have to keep a close watch on them.

They aren't really good tank mates for your red forest jewels (Hemichromus lifalili) more because of the different habitat requirements. Venustus are from Lake Malawi & need hard alkaline water (Ph 7.8 - 8.6), red forest jewels are from Central African tributary streams & require soft acidic water (Ph 6.0 - 7.5), exactly the opposite. What is the Ph & hardness of your water?

Did the fish shop know you already had Venustus when selling you the red forest jewels?

If you don't have a test kit for measuring water parameters, take a jar of water to your lfs, most do free water testing. Get onto this straight away as it sounds like your tank hasn't been cycled & may be building up ammonia which is dangerous for the fish.

Cheers
Michael


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

*** read up about the Venustus and am all over it. They are still currently to young to sex. But by the sounds of it ill have to find a new home for the jewels. I realise that clown loaches get rather large but I have plans to get another large 4ft tank soon.

Ill have to take my water to get it checked. Im not sure how to test the hardness of the water but I do have a ph test kit and it is between 7.2 - 7.4. When I got the tank I went to the fish shop and asked what I needed and they gave me a bottle of 'Prime' which removes chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia, detoxifies nitrite and nitrate and provides slime coat and to put 1.5 caps in at the start and then a bottle of 'Stability' and to put in 2 caps for 7 days, but those staff there are not helpful at all so I wouldnt know if this is right or not.

I asked a man at the shop which fish would get on well with my Venustus and he said all but one type which was a small black fish with blue stripes that I was interested in. So if anyone is new to fish I suggest they not go to 'Hurstville Aquarium'!

I heard coral is a good way to keep ammonia down? Do you use dead coral because *** got a heap that was in the tank before I changed it.

Thank you all for your much needed help by the way. I am really fond of my fish so I just want whats best for them.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

For the venustus and loaches you want a 72" tank. I'd rehome them.

Coral does not keep ammonia down...It could possibly help keep pH and KH up above 7.4 but that would be the only advantage and I did not find this to be true in my tanks. It's also rough and could scrape your fish as they dash around.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

You probably should get the ph and hardness up a little in the tank, aim for 7.8ph. There is a buffer recipe in the Library section of this website, that you can use common grocery or drug store items for.


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

Alright thanks. Would it be better to find a larger tank or maybe just have another 4ft tank and seperate the Venustus or do they prefer being together?

How many gallons would be needed to accomidate the venustus and loaches?


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

Also what are peoples opinions on Astatotilapia Latifasciata?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I would get the bigger tank, getting more 4ft tank doesn't solve the reality that a 4ft tank is too small for adult venestus. These are also not pairing fish, so if you are going to keep males and females, you'll want at least three females for one male. If you are going to go for just an all male tank, then get rid of any females, and keep just one male per species.

A. latifasciatus should be fine with the venestus. If the male doesn't have some degree of dominance, it won't show much colour though.


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

So im better off getting a 6ft tank then. If I do keep an all male tank is it best to keep them all from the same lake? Or just ones with all the same water needs?

I talked to the people at the fish shop I go to and quizzed them about different water conditions for the fish and how they sold me fish with different needs than the ones I told them I had and they said it wouldnt matter because all the fish tanks at the shop there have the same water. Is this true? Wouldnt the fish be uncomfortable?

Also where is a good place online to buy cheap fish rocks and plastic plants that ship to Australia?

Is there any difference between going and getting a stick off the ground for the tank and getting one at the shop that cost ludicris amounts?

Sorry about the 100 questions I just dont think ill learn it from anyone else.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

It is very difficult to generalize about compatibilities, but it is easier just to go with Malawian fish in a Malawi tank, until you gain more experience.

Cheap fish rocks... go to a landscape store. Plastic Plants... pass.

If you haven't noticed, the way they keep fish at stores is not at all optimal for keeping fish long-term. That is for practical reasons, packing them in small tanks, water quality not necessarily great.. but it is what they have to do. You'll notice far more fish are dead at a store, than you could find acceptable at home.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

I apologize if this comes off as pointed but you really need to worry more about cycling your tank right now than anything else including your stock list. If you keep adding fish then they are all likely to die sooner or later without being in a properly cycled tank. Adding water conditioner and messing with your water chemistry will do nothing to help the problem created by not having the beneficial bacteria to convert your ammonia to nitrate.

If at all possible, seeing how you have a bad mix of fish anyways, I would take them back and cycle your tank first. While your tank is cycling you can work on a better stock list for your tank size. With most cichlids a tank with a larger floor space the better they will do. So don't pay much attention to height. You want a tank that is long and wide.

If you insist on continuing on with your current fish while the tank is cycling the best thing you can do to keep them alive is a lot of water changes and often. You need to keep ammonia and nitrites near zero. This will take longer to cycle doing it this way but it is a must if you want to keep these fish.

Sorry for the bad news.

PS....as those venustus grow and mature they will become very aggressive in a tank that size especially a male. As was mentioned a breeding pair of jewels would also be a disaster in a tank of that size as well.


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## Michael_M (May 31, 2012)

Try and find a better LFS imo. I only know about the Queensland ones unfortunately though.

I think your best course of action would be to decide what fish you are interested in keeping and then proceed accordingly.

The tank size is definitely useable for Africans, just not some of the ones the store may have lead you to believe it is. So if you were to return the fish and cycle the tank we could help you stock it with more suitable inhabitants. 3 groups of Mbuna that mature under 6" for example.

If the bigger Malawians like Venustus are what you really want to keep a 6 ft tank would be required. You'd have to choose all male or harem groups and again we could assist you in species compatibility.


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

So definately get rid of the Jewels then since they require the different water conditions.

Im just still a bit confused about 'cycling' though. I read up on it but it just seems like thats kind of what *** done already. When I went to the Aquarium they gave me 2 bottles to put in my water for the first week before I got any fish. One bottle is of Seachem - Prime which says it removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia, detoxifies nitrite and nitrate and provides slime coat. The second bottle is Seachem - Stability which says 'new tank stability system', rapid and safe establishment of bio-filter and prevents 'new tank syndrome'. - This all sounds like everything that was in the cycling article?

Also should I just go buy another tank for the fish to stay in while I cycle the tank if I still need to?

Im sorry about all the questions but I just dont understand fully


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

asherbonnie said:


> So definately get rid of the Jewels then since they require the different water conditions.
> 
> Im just still a bit confused about 'cycling' though. I read up on it but it just seems like thats kind of what I've done already. When I went to the Aquarium they gave me 2 bottles to put in my water for the first week before I got any fish. One bottle is of Seachem - Prime which says it removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia, detoxifies nitrite and nitrate and provides slime coat. The second bottle is Seachem - Stability which says 'new tank stability system', rapid and safe establishment of bio-filter and prevents 'new tank syndrome'. - This all sounds like everything that was in the cycling article?
> 
> ...


Hey....seems like you are willing to learn and I will be glad to help. What I would do, since you are already contemplating taking the jewels back and the other two species are not going to work in your tank regardless, is take them all back to the LFS and get a store credit. I would then proceed to doing a fishless cycle with ammonia. You need to get three test kits. One for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Perhaps you could trade your fish for a API master freshwater test kit.

Then get you a bottle of pure ammonia and start a cycle. A quick and brief description of a cycle and why it is important:

All fish waste excreted along with uneaten food and other rotting waste such as plants is converted to ammonia. Ammonia is toxic to fish and will kill them sooner or later. A cycled tank has bacteria in the filters, rocks, substrate, etc...this bacteria converts the ammonia to nitrite then from nitrite to nitrate. To remove the nitrates you do this with water changes. In a new tank there is no bacteria so you need to establish a colony. The best way is through fishless cycling. A established tank will have plenty of this bacteria.

You really really really, I can't stress this enough, really need to read this:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cycling.php

Followed by this:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... _cycle.php

Let me know if you have any other questions. If you don't cycle your tank you are just wasting your money and your time on new fish. While a few may make it through this process they usually die at a young age from the damage done during this process.


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

Well that just sounds like its going to suck. All together my fish have cost me $150 and are near twice as big now as when I bought them, its such a waste.

Ill see if I can take them back, most fish stores in australia wont take back fish or buy fish from people who arent licenced because of risk of diseases and such. So im not sure what ill do with them...

I read up on the cycling process last night, but I think I understand it better now. Ill go out this afternoon and get a testing kit. Then in the next few days start the cycling process.

Thank you for all your help.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

asherbonnie said:


> Well that just sounds like its going to suck. All together my fish have cost me $150 and are near twice as big now as when I bought them, its such a waste.
> 
> Ill see if I can take them back, most fish stores in australia wont take back fish or buy fish from people who arent licenced because of risk of diseases and such. So im not sure what ill do with them...
> 
> ...


How long has the tank been set up now?


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

Around 2 months now. Does the bottles of Prime and Stability I put in the tank do anything?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

asherbonnie said:


> Around 2 months now. Does the bottles of Prime and Stability I put in the tank do anything?


The Prime, in the right doses, can neutralize the ammonia and nitrites but it is more than the normal 1 capful per 50g. If the tank has been set up of 2 months then I would recommend getting a test kit as a priority and test the water to see what your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. How often and how much of the water have you been changing?


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

I change about 20% every 2-3 weeks.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

asherbonnie said:


> I change about 20% every 2-3 weeks.


OK....you have 7 fish total in a 83g? How big are they and how often/much are you feeding them?

I would recommend doing weekly water changes. I have a heavily stocked tank and change 85% of my water once a week. Even if my tank was not heavily stocked I would still do the large water changes weekly. I have another tank and I do 50% every 2-3 days but I am doing a fish in cycle because I really don't have a choice. I am doing the water changes often to keep the ammonia and nitrites at or near zero.


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

yes 7 fish, all are around 3''. I feed them 3 shakes of thier food morning and night. I feed them Sera - granured protein rich food for east african cichlids.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

I would change 50% weekly regardless. If your ammonia and nitrites are above zero then you need to step up your water changes. Just make sure the water going in is the same temp as the water going out and you will be fine. As the water is filling just add a cap full of prime and another cap full after the tank is full. I would spread it out evenly over the top of the tank.


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## asherbonnie (Sep 11, 2012)

Okay. I get the hang of it now.

Thank you all very much for your kind help


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

asherbonnie said:


> Okay. I get the hang of it now.
> 
> Thank you all very much for your kind help


 :thumb:


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