# Mbuna choices.



## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

I actually have a few questions that I will try to get out without taking too long. First is it completely impossible to have an all male mbuna tank? I know it can take time and a lot of exchanging to get the right mix, but is it really impossible?

Also I want to know if you had a choice between saulosi and msobo "magunga" which would you choose and why?

Which leads to my last question. What other mbuna has vibrant male and female color such as the above 2 mentioned? The fish HAS to stay under 6", but preferrably in the 3"-4" range. All I can seem to find are ones that has a gorgeous male and drab female. I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks.


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## geotlyrae (Jul 3, 2008)

bccromer said:


> Which leads to my last question. What other mbuna has vibrant male and female color such as the above 2 mentioned? The fish HAS to stay under 6", but preferrably in the 3"-4" range. All I can seem to find are ones that has a gorgeous male and drab female. I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks.


I'm also waiting for the same answer...


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

As far as an all male mbuna tank goes, some of the most experienced people have trouble achieving good results. I have read many times about people giving up on this idea some of which have been moderators, due to aggression causing many deaths. Most people end up going back to the more conventional method of harems.

I keep and prefer Saulosi so im a bit biased in the debate between these and the magunga. Saulosi are a true dwarf that won't grow much over 4" whereas the later will grow a bit larger. In smaller tanks Saulosi are perfect due to their reasonable aggression levels.

Tank mates might include rusties, any lab species or some of the smaller peacocks.

What size tank is this?


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## kingpoiuy (Jun 9, 2008)

I've ended up with 90% females in my tank, ugh. Haven't had any problems yet tho. They are all, except 2, pretty colorful too.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I had a male mbuna tank for several months with no aggression issues, but I found it very boring in comparison to having the breeding groups. The males didn't show off as much and didn't look their best.

I'd go with the saulosi for your tank size. Msobo females are brutally aggressive, and could be a problem in a smaller tank.

If you're wanting blue and yellow, those two species are the only ones that are coming to mind right now, but I'm still on my first cup of coffee! :lol:


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## BenHugs (Jan 13, 2007)

I'd say P.Demasoni but they won't go well with your Saulosi. 
A Demasoni/Yellow lab mix would be a nice combo


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

bccromer said:


> I actually have a few questions that I will try to get out without taking too long. First is it completely impossible to have an all male mbuna tank? I know it can take time and a lot of exchanging to get the right mix, but is it really impossible?


 Not impossible, but easier to accomplish with large tanks.



> Also I want to know if you had a choice between saulosi and msobo "magunga" which would you choose and why?


Msobo, only because I have never kept them before, but only in a 75 gallon or larger.



> Which leads to my last question. What other mbuna has vibrant male and female color such as the above 2 mentioned? The fish HAS to stay under 6", but preferrably in the 3"-4" range. All I can seem to find are ones that has a gorgeous male and drab female. I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks.


Ps. demasoni, L. caeruleus, most Melanochromis, Labeotropheous, most zebra OBs, and Ps. acei.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

bccromer, is this the 30G "IN THE WORKS" in your signature?

If so, what are the dimensions of the tank?

I thought this was the one you were referring to and made my post above accordingly.

I agree 100% with Dave on the Msobos needing 75G or larger, and my answer was based on thinking we were talking about a 30G single species tank!


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Well I do have the 2 30g tanks. They are your standard 30g. I do want saulosi in one but don't want something drab in the other. I don't want to do a demasoni, yellow lab colony because if I were gonna do that I could just keep more saulosi for the same colors. The fish for the other 30g don't have to be as vibrant as saulosi as I understand there aren't many. I just don't want something similar to say polits where the female has no color at all.

As for the msobo magunga, my cousin has a 55g and was considering them or the saulosi. You guys recommend the saulosi? It is not ideal to keep them in anything smaller than a 75g?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the 30G tanks? That's a lot of fish.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

It's a standard 36" 30g tank. The amounts I was thinking of are as juvies. I will take out some as needed if it comes to that. I am overcrowding to keep down aggression. I have an XP4 filter I will be putting on each of these tanks so sufficient filtration won't be a problem.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

I think I have finally found what I want. In one of the 30g I am gonna go with the Pseudotropheus sp. elongatus chialosi. Seems to me that the males and females both have pretty good color. Not vibrant as the soulosi, but at least they both have some and stay only 3.5". This also gives me a yellow strip fish instead of just the blue ones. In the other 30g I believe I am going to go with the afra white top.

This leads to my 54g which I believe is going to change because I'm not currently liking the looks of everything. My cousin talking about msobo and saulosi got me turned on to them as well. Which would you guys keep in here? I would think saulosi but do the males look too similar to the afra white top males? I am just trying to get fish that look different from each other.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Scratch my last post. I finally found 4 that I have it narrowed down to. They all have some sort of blue male, and yellow to orange female, but the blue is different for each one of the species. I just can't decide which to put where which is why I will ask you guys. My 4 choices are Pseudotropheus saulosi, Melanachromis cyaneorhabdos, Metriaclima sp. "Msobo", and Metriaclima sp. "Membe deep". I have managed to find F1's of all of these, but can't make up my mind. Obviously the Msobo would have to go in the 54g if I got them, but if one of the other options does much better in a larger group of say 20 then I will put them in the 54g and cross the Msobo off the list. Any suggestions?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the 54G? Sometimes corner tanks sound big enough due to gallons but they lack the length of rectangular tanks. Your two Metriaclimas are full size fish and need the dimensions of a 55G rectangle.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

39x28x23 are the dimensions. The profiles say that the Membe deep only get to 4" long. That's why I figured they would be ok. In all of them I can slighly overstock because I have TONS of filtration. Like I said before on each of the 30g tanks I have an XP4 each. On my 54g tank I have 1 XP4 and 2 XP2 filters. I do 50% water change on all tanks weekly.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think it's an aggression thing more than a matter of filtration. The 39" dimension is across the front of the triangle? So the fish really can't get 39" "away" from each other unless they stick to the front corners of the tank?

So you are thinking Membe in the 54G corner, Saulosi in one 30G and Mainganos in the other 30G? All three would be single species tanks?

Do you already have the Polit and Mbamba in the 54G? If yes, I don't think I'd add another species.

Also, I think you already crossed these off your list, but FWIW the Cynotilapia sp. hara (a.k.a. White Tops) are not part of the afra group and are not dwarf. Mine are as big as the zebras and still growing. I think Cichlidaholic found her males to be on the aggressive side.


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

I agree, it isn't the size of these cichlids, but rather their aggression levels. Many of your choices for the 30 gallon are going to be too aggressive. You should also carefully consider what you put into the 54 corner as well. If you do put more aggressive fish in the 54 g, then you will need to watch them carefully, and be prepared to make changes if needed.

Although the 54g is a nice looking tank, it often makes for a poor African Cichlid tank due to the dimensions. In general, African Cichlids do best in tanks will large footprints, with length being more important than width. Height tends to be the least important factor, though large fish will likely need more height than say mbuna.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Well I hadn't really decided which were going where in these tanks which is why I asked. I didn't know which of these needed more room or a larger colony. Say for instance if I went the demasoni I know they are small but would need to go in the 54g to get a large enough colony. I didn't know if the same would apply to any of these. The only one I know would have to go in the 54g would be the msobo if I went with them because they get larger. In my 54g there are clearly 3 areas for the males to claim. There are plenty of other caves and such too, but three that are on the actual sand.

DJRansome the saulosi would probably go in one 30g and maingano in the other. I'm thinking the membe deep will be too hard to find so probably will have the msobo in the 54g. All of these will be single species tanks. I do have the others in my 54g as of now but am looking for something more colorful so will be taking those out whenever I get the new fish ready to go in.

Dave I am aware that I will need to watch these carefully, and I know even with a huge amount of planning everything can go different when you actually get the fish in there. I watch my tanks for several hours a day and will move fish at the first signs of distress. I was just trying to figure out what my best option for success is, but will be ready to change things at any time should something go bad. Any opinions on my best odds of success given my 3 tanks and 4 species choices?


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

I have the chance to pick up a wild pair of both the membe deep and maingano for $90 total. I really don't want a pair of these as I want a colony, but do you guys think it would be worth it just to breed them and get a lot of F1s for a colony then sale the wild caughts back off? I can get more of maingano wild caught from somewhere else to complete my colony, but have found that it will be impossible to ever complete a colony of wild caught membe deep.


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## myselfdotcom (Sep 19, 2006)

A Saulosi species tank would be perfect. Male is vibrant blue /black stripes and female is yellow/orange color!


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

I keep going back and forth. I decided that the 30g tanks will just be used for growout tanks. So basically I am left with this choice. I am either gonna go with msobo or saulosi in my 54g. I can't decide which though. I can get wild msobo if I go with those, or can get F1 of either species. This will be a species only tank. I am guessing based on earlier comments that I should go with say 20 saulosi in my tank as rather than the msobo since several of you said they shouldn't be kept in anything but a 75g or larger??


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Correct, msobo are large and aggressive fish and you have a corner tank with 28" sides.

A large group of Saulosi will be great in there...maybe you can keep 3 males colored up.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

I think that's what I will do. With that said, I actually can get a breeding group of wild saulosi from a breeder I have done business with in the past. I believe he said I could get 1m 3f from him. From talking to people saulosi aren't imported much anymore, so I'm guessing it would be somewhat difficult to get more wild caughts so it might would take a long time to complete an entire colony. Should I take the 4 and finish the wild colony as I can, or just go ahead and get F1's and do the entire colony at one time?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd go with the F1's anyway unless the wild caught are better quality.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Well the F1s will be juvies from the wild caughts of this guy. I have seen his wilds in person and they are nice quality. Either way they will be from the same blood line, so in that case would you get the wild caughts just cause? I am just the kind of person that if I'm getting wild caught I want them all to be, which leads to what I said earlier about how it might take me months to ever finish a colony for a 55g.


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

In answer to your first question: Yes it is definitely possible to set up an all-male Mbuna tank. I have one. It has taken a lot of work and patience though with weeding out the girls and watching carefully for agression and removing fish that are overly agressive towards others or not thriving. It has proven to be a very challenging experience, but we are getting the benefits now with an incredibly beautiful tank.

That said, I think it would be even more difficult in a tank that is only 30 gallons and so would shy away from trying it in such a small tank. I have a relatively small tank, but 30 is tiny. I think the bigger the tank for an all-male Mbuna, the easier it is.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

I have still been doing research as I want to make sure I have everything just the way I want it before I order fish. I have narrowed the 54g corner down to either a species only tank with either mosobo magunga, saulosi, or white top haras. I would be ok with either of these as a single species tank. I also would be ok with mixing either of the 2, but know I could mix the saulosi and msobo due to hybrids from similar females. So that means I could mix the white top with msobo, or white top with saulosi. I know some of you said msobo won't work in this size tank, but I wasn't sure if that was just due to ideal situations or if it isn't possible at all. Out of those scenarios which would offer the best color, activity(without killing each other), and chance of success as far as co-existing in this size tank and possible breeding with no hybrids if I do decide to raise fry?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Msobo are quite aggressive and odds are that they will kill each other or tankmates in a 54G corner tank because the sides measure 23" and 28". If you want to keep msobo try for a 75G rectangle or at least a 55G rectangle so you have the full 48" length across the entire width of the tank.

My first vote would be Saulosi species-only. You might get away with Cynotilapia sp. hara species-only, but this Cyno can be aggressive as well and is not dwarf...this is more of a full-size mbuna.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Even if I were to keep a limited number of males say 1-3 would it still be a problem with the msobo? Or if I only had one male of each species could I not have 2 different species?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Even keeping msobo in the 75G rectangle the ideal would be a limit to one male. I would not put any full-size mbuna (except maybe yellow labs) in the 54G corner.

You could try two dwarf species in the 54G, but you have run though most of those in earlier posts. You already have some of the dwarf species with colorful females in your 30G tanks.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I'd do maingano (Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos) and white labs in the corner tank. I'm assuming if you could do yellow labs you could do white and think that combo would look super good. The maingano males and females look alike.


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## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

Sorry but I have to agree with everything the others are saying. I would only stick to one group of mbuna in the 54 corner. Or, unless you got 2 smaller groups of smaller or dwarf mbuna that are less aggressive, like the yellow labs or even possibly rusties. I would probably not add anything with the msobos in a corner tank that has less floor space. There are much nicer cynotilapia species that are dwarves, and have more color in them. I personally like the afra jalo reef. But each to their own. Polits to me also make up for the lack of color in females, by the gorgeous color the males get. I love my breeding group of them, and with other colorful mbuna, you do not really notice how drab they are.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

With all of these suggestions it got me thinking. Would an all female tank be bad? I love the female saulosi, but know that if I put them in my 54g corner onlye 1 or 2 males would color up. I would like to have some kind of balance in the tank as far as color and am not concerned about breeding them. I could then get some other species that has a colorful female and is easy to tell the difference in sexes. This would give me 2 colors without some being faded due to them being sub dom males. I just don't know which other female would be a good choice that would work with the saulosi.


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## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

Nobody has mentioned this and its something you could look into but, what about acei? I know they grow to around 6" but they are peaceful fish (friend keeps them with tiger barbs). They breed easily and you could probably get 6 (2m, 4f) or more into a 54g.

Just a thought you can consider


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The problem is that his 54 gallons are sufficient, but it's a corner tank and the 28" and 23" of swimming room are not going to be enough for Acei.

It's not that they couldn't live...it's that they couldn't thrive. Also Acei can get to be 7" or 8" and they like to be in large groups of 5-6. Better to go with dwarf mbuna in this tank.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Yeah I certainly wouldn't put acei in my tank. If I did go with a saulosi species only tank, how many males would you guys suggest I get? Or could I just order say 20 of them and whatever I get just leave them in?

I am still curious about the female tank I mentioned above. Or whether I could keep female saulosi and something else in with them like either demasoni or maingano. There may be some males in the demasoni or maingano group, but the reason for this would be so all of them are colored roughly the same and there is balance in the color. If I got saulosi I would just have 2 or 3 colored males and everything else would be yellow.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

It's me again. Seems I never go away. Hopefully I will be finally ordering my fish this week. Here is what I am down to. I can get a wild caught colony of either membe deep, msobo, saulosi, and maingano. I can get any or all of those. Here is my dilemma. I have the 54g corner and 2 30g tanks. What would be my best chances be for success? If you had these choices and tanks how would you set them up?

My other choice is to just choose one as I haven't received the 30g tanks yet and can cancel that order and just go with the 54g only. I do have 2 30g cubes I can use for growout tanks for whichver I used if I go with just the one tank or all 3.


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

I am very new, but thought I'd give my recent experience w/ my msobo male (see my "adei being picked off" post.)

He is still only about 2" and was very peaceful until he colored up (got him when he was yellow). Once he got his "war paint" he is the ruler of the tank. Even w/ tons of caves he goes in and out of every one of them constantly running fish out (my red zebra male backs down from him). As for the colors, he is absoulutelY STUNNING and the females are a beautiful yellow. My tank is 4' (55 gal) I don't think the msobos would do too well in something shorter.


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