# sick german blue ram?



## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

I've got a german blue ram in a 20 gal with about 20 guppies 6 corys and 1 clown pleco. No aggression at all. I've had the ram for about a month now as healthy as it could be. About a few days to a week ago it stopped eating and its belly has hollowed out. Could this be internal parasites or stress of some kind? I'll test the water tonight and post the results.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Anytime a fish stops eating abruptly, I would suspect internal parasites. After a week of not eating, you have to do something.

How long has this tank been set up?

What are the water parameters on the tank?

Have you added any new fish recently without quarantine?

Lost any other fish?

Is this a planted tank?

No other signs of illness other than not eating and the sunken belly?

Do you have a hospital tank?

There are two treatments for internal parasites (bloat) listed below my signature.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

I noticed that the rams anus is swollen and red hairy things sticking out. I read that this parasite is called camallanus. The tanks been set up for about 2 years now. The guppies have had occasional ich breakouts. One fish has it right now so I am treating the tank. I thought the ich guard 2 may help the ram as well. It has java moss and one tiny dying java fern. The rams colors are still great and it swims fine. It just doesnt eat. I do have a 20 gal that i can use as a hospital if i need to set it up. Would clout take care of these parasites? Thats all my LFS has.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

i also read to use Levamisole Hydrochloride so I think I'll find some of that.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Prazipro would also be a good treatment choice.

I would remove the ram and initiate treatment as soon as possible.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

thanks i'll check it out. The levasole at blue seal was way to expensive and the cheapest i can find on the web is out of stock. I'm moving the ram to the hospital tank tonight.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

*** used 2 tablets of this parasite med called jungle clear. Its not working so far. 1 tablet treats 10 gal and I've only filled up about a third of a 20gal. Do you think I could try pulling the worms out with tiny tweezers?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I think that would be very stressful for the fish.

I would complete the treatment, and perhaps treat for another week. (6 total treatments, spaced 48 hours apart, with a 25% water change prior to each successive treatment.)

You may even need to treat with another antiparasitic after this.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

the jungle clear doesnt seem to be helping and i only have 1 tablet left. I dont think hte ram's going to last another week she's so thin. The worms also seem to have retreated a bit because they arent sticking out so far anymore. Would adding some epsom salt or aquarium salt help?


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## Barbie (Feb 13, 2003)

Prazipro is totally worthless at treating camallanus. The Jungle stuff you're using is also. You can buy Levamisol at livestock supply places. If the ram has them, everyone in the tank does also. Levamisol tends to be hard on all barbs and some livebearers, so be sure to increase aeration and do the big water changes recommended before and after treating.

If you can get your hands on flubendazole, it is effective, at an increased dosage and easier on the fish, but it's nearly impossible to find in the US.

Barbie


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Without having a professional examine the parasites and determine what they are, I believe I would go ahead and finish the treatment course that I started before changing to another medication. (3 treatments is considered a full round of the JPC. :thumb: )

I'm not sure how the other fish will respond to stronger meds as far as treating the main tank, so I would proceed with caution.

Praziquantel is one of the most effective general wormers that veterinarians use, and while I agree that it won't work for everything, we do not _know_ that the parasites in question are camallanus.

I'm not telling you NOT to try the levamisol, I've heard of it being used with success. I'm just no more certain that it will work or that this is actually camallanus.

Epsom salt serves as a mild laxative, and can help to flush the fish's digestive system while treating for parasites. It's normally used at 1 cup per 100G of water for medicinal purposes in an aquarium. Since this little one is so emaciated, I would be afraid to risk using the epsom salt at this point, but you might use some in the main tank preventatively, as well as feed them all food that has been soaked in whatever medication you decide to go with next.

Good luck, and please post back!


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## Barbie (Feb 13, 2003)

Red worms protruding from the anus of the fish is a symptom very indicative to camallanus. As someone that's had to treat them a few times (owning a LFS sometimes has it's less than fun side effects), I can say that every other treatment I tried was either ineffective against the worms or toxic to the fish. Levamisole is very effective against the worms, but can also cause death from impaction of the worms letting go all at once. If the fish is THAT infested, the damage done to their intestinal lining from the barbed mouths of the worms is going to probably be fatal anyway. I've had fish come in so loaded with the worms that they threw them up with the levamisole treatment, not just passed them. By the time you're seeing them protruding from the anus, the fish is in dire straits. Waiting a few days to continue a treatment that isn't going to help at all is just making it more likely the fish won't live through the treatment, IME. It's VERY important with fish diseases to treat with medication specific to the parasite or bacteria or you're just building resistant strains of things.

Epsom salts are going to give the fish a severe change in hardness to deal with at the same time as a harsh medication. I definitely wouldn't recommend it for blackwater fish that can be sensitive to hardness changes like a ram.

I've learned more about parasite control in the last two years of owning a store than I ever wanted to know. Purchasing a microscope is something anyone serious should really consider. Once you see these worms up close you'd have a better idea how important it is to get rid of them quickly. Their red color is from the red blood cells they're eating. The medication basically just paralyzes them, also, so be sure to really clean the bottom of the tank, or use a qt tank and move the fish into a new tank after treatment.

This is a picture of a heavily infested Angel on the left. I had just treated the tank and he was starting to purge the worms. I took the entire batch of angels home to treat them and 12 of 18 survived the treatment. Over the next 6 months, 3 grew to normal size, 4 died, and the last 5 have stayed about the size they were when they were treated. Healthy, but definitely damaged. I keep threatening to euthanize them, but they seem comfortable, just small and never spawning, even on a rich diet including live blackworms.










Barbie


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

mepeterser2451 said:


> thanks i'll check it out. The levasole at blue seal was way to expensive and the cheapest i can find on the web is out of stock.


What are your other options for treatment, mepeterser2451?

The JPC has metronidazole and praziquantel in it. I'm not sure how much of either that it has, since I've never been able to get a good answer on the exact dosage of the ingredients.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

Barbie said:


> This is a picture of a heavily infested Angel on the left. I had just treated the tank and he was starting to purge the worms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If thats camallanus then I'm not sure thats what my ram has. The red stringys are much shorter and a much brighter red. But today they seem to have retreated much farther. Maybe the treatment is working.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

cichlidaholic said:


> mepeterser2451 said:
> 
> 
> > thanks i'll check it out. The levasole at blue seal was way to expensive and the cheapest i can find on the web is out of stock.
> ...


My LFS has clout. The levasole was way to expensive and not in smaller amounts so thats out of the question. I can also check with the local vet. I think I will throw in the last JPC tablet do some water changes and hope for the best. As for the main tank, I've been watching them carefully and they all seem ok so far. I may add some epsom salt as someone mentioned earlier.


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## Barbie (Feb 13, 2003)

That was a picture of them as they were being purged. They weren't that dark to start with .

Barbie


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

Barbie said:


> That was a picture of them as they were being purged. They weren't that dark to start with .
> 
> Barbie


oh ok thanks.


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