# High Nitrate



## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

I do weekly water changes to my tanks, anyway i decided to buy a Nitrate test kit just incase. Turns out it's high, it was red on both my tanks. I thought that couldn't be right becasue my fish seem very healthy. I tested my water out of the tap and it came up as no Nitrate. So that confirmed it couldn't have been a faulty test. Anyway i did a 50% water change to both tanks, gave them a good clean. The reading is the exact same! How can this be? And what's the best way to get rid of Nitrate. It's weird though with a reading that high surely my fish would be dead by now?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Nitrate is not nearly as toxic to your fish as nitrite or ammonia. Overtime though fish living in water with high nitrate are more susceptible to disease so you're right in wanting to get it down. High nitrate is a sign that something is off in your care of the tank. Could be you're overfeeding, could be there are too many fish in the tank or a combination of both. It also can indicate that you're not doing frequent enough water changes or that you're not removing enough water with those changes.

When Nitrate gets up there you often have to do repeated water changes over several weeks time to get it down. Giving the gravel a good siphoning will also help. Try doing daily or every other day water changes of 40% for the next week or so. Feed one small feeding a day.

Robin


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Robin said:


> When Nitrate gets up there you often have to do repeated water changes over several weeks time to get it down. Giving the gravel a good siphoning will also help. Try doing daily or every other day water changes of 40% for the next week or so. Feed one small feeding a day.
> 
> Robin


Also you might have debris accumulated in your filters, that can keep your nitrite up there if everything else is clean.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

I do normally feed my fish a fair bit, but they eat it all. Also do you think i should buy a Nitrite and Ammonia test kit as well? Just incase.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

It could be your nitrate was out of control, like double the max on the card.


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

Try cleaning your filters and maybe adding another one.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Nodalizer said:


> It could be your nitrate was out of control, like double the max on the card.


What? I don't understand...


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Ok, say your nitrates were on the test kit 80ppm or higher.

If you changed 50% and it stays the roughly color same, then your nitrates are now 40-160ppm.

I would change a lot more then 50%, do 80% and then see what you have got.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Nodalizer said:


> Ok, say your nitrates were on the test kit 80ppm or higher.
> 
> If you changed 50% and it stays the roughly color same, then your nitrates are now 40-160ppm.
> 
> I would change a lot more then 50%, do 80% and then see what you have got.


It seems a darker red then 80 but 160 is like brown, it's defiantly a clear red, almost blood red. An 80% water change is risky though, that's a dramatic change to my fish, can't i just buy products that clear nitrate in the water? Like there's something you put in your filter system.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Nothing wrong with a 80% water change.

The only drastic effect will be a large drop in nitrates. This will knock your fish around a bit, but they are currently dying slowly in water with that high a nitrate.

As for the dark red but not brown.. it just means it was between 80-160pmm (not good at all).

This means with the 50% water change you now have roughly 40-80ppm (still very bad for after a water change).


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I'd just do daily 30-40% changes until it's at a reasonable level, below 40ppm.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

That'd work also.


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## &lt;=U=L=T=R=A=&gt; (Apr 21, 2010)

I would do a massive water change..leave enough water for the fish to swim around in.
Don't vacuum or clean walls/filters etc

Otherwise what GTZ said also would work.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

I bought a Nitrate filter thing, it's suppossed to absorb the Nitrate in my filter. I think I'll use this and do a couple of 30% water changes over the next week. That should do the trick.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Waste of time using nitrasorb or the like.

They are for keeping nitrate lower in an already low nitrate system. They will do nothing for you.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Nodalizer said:


> Waste of time using nitrasorb or the like.
> 
> They are for keeping nitrate lower in an already low nitrate system. They will do nothing for you.


Well on top of the water changes how would that be a waste of time? They last months, I'll change my water till it's low then that way it will help maintain it.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

You can spend the cash on them if you like. But my opinion is they will do little. Had them in my tank before and found them more work then help.

You have to recharge them weekly for them to continue working at any decent level. After each recharge it will absorb less and less nitrate.

It is easy to maintain nitrate with a weekly water change. If its not maintaining with a weekly water change then there is changes that need to be made with your change amount or feeding amount.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Fatal said:


> I bought a Nitrate filter thing, it's suppossed to absorb the Nitrate in my filter. I think I'll use this and do a couple of 30% water changes over the next week. That should do the trick.


Why treat the symptom when you can cure the disease? Remove the dirty water...

I'd do 50% daily until I get a reading less than what you are seeing now.

Once you get it under control, you can maintain. Don't forget the filters and substrate as sources of nitrate (dirt).

Does your tap water have nitrate in it?


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Ok to update you guys on this, i do change my water often, the water isn't dirty. I clean the gravel every water change, i barley manage to get any **** out of the gravel so that's all clean i did a Nitrate test on my tap water. Absolute no Nitrate in my tap water, anyway i did another 50% water change today, i decided to clean out my filter again while i add the Nitrasorb stuff. My filter was putrid, turns out a monthly clean on my filter wasn't good enough, and looks like I'll have to clean it out every 1-2 weeks from now on. So looks like that was the problem with my Nitrate, the build-up of slime in the filter was putting Nitrate back into my clean water.


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## rich_t (Nov 26, 2009)

Fatal said:


> Ok to update you guys on this, i do change my water often, the water isn't dirty. I clean the gravel every water change, i barley manage to get any #%$& out of the gravel so that's all clean i did a Nitrate test on my tap water. Absolute no Nitrate in my tap water, anyway i did another 50% water change today, i decided to clean out my filter again while i add the Nitrasorb stuff. My filter was putrid, turns out a monthly clean on my filter wasn't good enough, and looks like I'll have to clean it out every 1-2 weeks from now on. So looks like that was the problem with my Nitrate, the build-up of slime in the filter was putting Nitrate back into my clean water.


How often and how much do you feed?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Hey fatal,
The junk in your filter would have not helped the nitrates getting that high in the first place, but it doesn't explain a quick rise after a water change. You would still need to get the nitrate under control by water changes. The reason you saw high nitrate after the change is you had so much that removing half of it didn't make much difference is all. I have cleaned my filter at times with the sponges almost completely blocked with organics for a couple of months and I have never had nitrates that high after changing the water.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Fatal said:


> the water isn't dirty.


I did not mean it was cloudy or unclear or full of particles or had actual soil in it...I consider nitrate dirt. :thumb:

Glad you found the culprit.


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## sam6 (Feb 21, 2011)

checked the date on the nitrate kit . could be out of date


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

sam6 said:


> checked the date on the nitrate kit . could be out of date


Haha i bought the Nitrate kit like 4 days ago, it wont be out of date.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

rich_t said:


> Fatal said:
> 
> 
> > Ok to update you guys on this, i do change my water often, the water isn't dirty. I clean the gravel every water change, i barley manage to get any #%$& out of the gravel so that's all clean i did a Nitrate test on my tap water. Absolute no Nitrate in my tap water, anyway i did another 50% water change today, i decided to clean out my filter again while i add the Nitrasorb stuff. My filter was putrid, turns out a monthly clean on my filter wasn't good enough, and looks like I'll have to clean it out every 1-2 weeks from now on. So looks like that was the problem with my Nitrate, the build-up of slime in the filter was putting Nitrate back into my clean water.
> ...


I feed them once a day, i normally give them either 2 blood worms tablets, 1 at a time so none are left on the bottom to be wasted. Then like a pinch of flakes. Or I'll give them a pinch of Cichlid pellets, and then a pinch of flakes.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Hmm ok after that 50% water change and Nitrasorb my Nitrate reading was still the same, it looks as though it's between 40-80. Looks like I'm going to have to do more water changes then i thought. Surely this will upset the fish though with this much water changes?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

No, the fish won;t care. The bacteria is in your filter, the fresh water will do them only good.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Fatal said:


> Hmm ok after that 50% water change and Nitrasorb my Nitrate reading was still the same, it looks as though it's between 40-80. Looks like I'm going to have to do more water changes then i thought. Surely this will upset the fish though with this much water changes?


The fish LOVE water changes. There is nothing better you can do for a fish than give him clean water.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> Fatal said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm ok after that 50% water change and Nitrasorb my Nitrate reading was still the same, it looks as though it's between 40-80. Looks like I'm going to have to do more water changes then i thought. Surely this will upset the fish though with this much water changes?
> ...


Yes i know fish love water changes but not when my water has a Chlorine in it surely that can't be a good thing.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Iv'e done another 50-60% water change, this time i did something different. Since my tap water has Chlorine in it and is about 7.6-8.0 on the PH tester, i decided to add Neutralizer to the added water, as well as sodium biphosphate and Water Ager. I read that the Water Ager is to be used during water changes and starting new tanks. I also have this Amorite down stuff, but it said to use when establishing tanks so i don't want to risk it. I also added Stress Zyme and Melafix so it doesn't hurt.

If my Nitrate reading doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t go down after this change IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll be pretty annoyed.


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

Fatal said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> > Fatal said:
> ...


I hope youre adding dechlorinator (like Prime) during water changes.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

You really should be adding dechlorinator every time when doing a water change. And use the dosage amount to treat the whole tank, not just the water that has been added.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

TrashmanNYC said:


> Fatal said:
> 
> 
> > DJRansome said:
> ...


No mate I'm not, i don't have any, apart from what i named in my previous comment I'm not adding anything. Water Ager removes Chlorine though doesn't it?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

It should do, have you been adding that each time?


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Nodalizer said:


> It should do, have you been adding that each time?


The first few times i did a water change i didn't, but i didn't know i had any. When i saw it today i did another water change and added quite a few quirts to the buckets of water i was syphoning in to the tank. The Water Ager doesn't harm fish though does it? Should i perhaps add some drops to the tank or is it too late for that?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

No it won't harm the fish per say, but some have stress coats and the like in them that I personally do not care for.

Your better off with a good standard declorinator like prime long term. Your near Brisbane somewhere aren't ya? They sell prime around here as its what I use.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Nodalizer said:


> No it won't harm the fish per say, but some have stress coats and the like in them that I personally do not care for.
> 
> Your better off with a good standard declorinator like prime long term. Your near Brisbane somewhere aren't ya? They sell prime around here as its what I use.


I'm in Sydney, and i have Stress Zyme, is this the same as Stress Coat? Stress Zyme is a product that adds bacteria to the water to reduce slime coats etc. And so you think i should add Water Ager to my tank with the fish in it? I'm sure it wonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t harm them since on the bottle it says "Overdosing doesn't cause harm". And it said to add it during water changes.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Ok someone answer me this please, I'm about to buy some new products and there's a huge list here, but most of them do the same thing I'm wondering what i don't need out of these. So if you could tell me the best products and which ones i NEED that would be great.

- Stress Coat (I have Stress Zyme but this is different so IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve read)
- Safe Guard
- PH Proper 7.0
- Geo Liquid Tropical
- Chlorine Neutralizer
- Geo Liquid African Cichlid
- Ammo-Lock
- Cycle
- Complete Water Treatment and Conditioner
- Bio Boost

It would be awesome if you could tell me out of these products which ones i should buy and which i shouldn't. I'm looking for quality so which is the best and which is not needed.

To update you i have African Cichlids upstairs (30gal) and American Cichlids downstairs (55gal).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't recognize all the names, but I think you do not need ANY of those. Prime is a good recommendation.

You are not having trouble with bacteria...just chlorine and nitrates. Prime will handle the chlorine and water changes will remove the nitrates. Simple. :thumb:

In the US the water providers have started using chloramines instead of chlorine. They can only be removed with a dechlorinator. Before this became prevalent, you could age the water to let the chlorine outgass, but no more. Luckily I have a well...no chlorine!


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Use this to find a tore in brisbane that stocks prime. Thou I am finding more and more that stock it these days.
http://sdlocator.seachem.com/SDLocator/DealerLocatorStart.php

Use these two products up, but I would just buy prime next time you need to replace it. It does the job of both of these and more.

- Chlorine Neutralizer - Long as it doesn't have stress coats it would be ok to use this up.
- Ammo-Lock - Keep this, not a bad thing to have around for emergencies.

I would keep the above two and put the rest in storage. Anything with a stress coat advertised to be it synthetic or natural stimulant should be avoided in a declorinator.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> I don't recognize all the names, but I think you do not need ANY of those. Prime is a good recommendation.
> 
> You are not having trouble with bacteria...just chlorine and nitrates. Prime will handle the chlorine and water changes will remove the nitrates. Simple. :thumb:
> 
> In the US the water providers have started using chloramines instead of chlorine. They can only be removed with a dechlorinator. Before this became prevalent, you could age the water to let the chlorine outgass, but no more. Luckily I have a well...no chlorine!


Well not sure if the water is the same in Aus, I know that Chlorine lasts 24hrs in a tank, so since my fish arn't dead or sick I would say I havnt to worry. Chloramine lasts up to 2 weeks doesn't it? I know that both are present in the tap water although I think my mate said that they are reducing the amount of chlorine in taps and replacing it with something else I forget what it was. Also good news I tested my wate ph it's now 7.0-7.2 and my nitrate level has gone down slightly but nothing big. Gone from red to dark orange.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Sydney you have to treat the water like you have Chloramines. They have a combination in Sydney. Adding more Chloramine depending on the water.

Are you fiddling with your ph? or you mean it is changing its self?


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Nodalizer said:


> Sydney you have to treat the water like you have Chloramines. They have a combination in Sydney. Adding more Chloramine depending on the water.
> 
> Are you fiddling with your ph? or you mean it is changing its self?


Yeah we have Chloramine in our water, my mate said they are mixing Chlorine with Ammonia to make Chloramine. Not sure anyway yes i used Neutraliser. I have C.A Cichlids and S.A Cichlids they prefer it closer to Neutral/Acidic and despite my tap water been high Alkaline I'm sure the aquariums i bought the fish from used Neutraliser in their tanks.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Neutralizer won't lower PH unless that a brand of ph down or something. I wouldn't be lowering PH using any liquid like PH down. If you really want to lower your PH you would be better of using another method thats more stable like peat in your filter or substrate.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Nodalizer said:


> Neutralizer won't lower PH unless that a brand of ph down or something. I wouldn't be lowering PH using any liquid like PH down. If you really want to lower your PH you would be better of using another method thats more stable like peat in your filter or substrate.


Neutraliser gets rid of Chlorine and Chloramine and Ammonia, which helps stabilize the PH to roughly 7.0.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

It won't get rid of ammonia, but it will get rid of chlorine yes. This will effectively lower the ph of the new water your adding into the tank ever so slightly. Your talking roughly 4 parts per million is chlorine in tap water, so yeah its not a very measurable effect on ph at all.

And removing them won't stabilize the ph at all, to stabilize the ph you need to buffer it with something like baking soda or peat.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Nodalizer said:


> It won't get rid of ammonia, but it will get rid of chlorine yes. This will effectively lower the ph of the new water your adding into the tank ever so slightly. Your talking roughly 4 parts per million is chlorine in tap water, so yeah its not a very measurable effect on ph at all.
> 
> And removing them won't stabilize the ph at all, to stabilize the ph you need to buffer it with something like baking soda or peat.


I did use some Sodium Biphosphate as well.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I would stay away from Sodium Biphosphate. Your algae will go out of control.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Nodalizer said:


> I would stay away from Sodium Biphosphate. Your algae will go out of control.


Oh ok cheers mate. So what products do you think i need?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

for now? Just seachem prime.

I wouldn't worry too much about your ph right now.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

I know Seachem's Prime keeps being mentioned and recommended but it clearly labels on the bottle that it provides slime coat,
You have API ammolock,which is all you need,it removes chlorine and chloramine
I have been using prime for a few years,once this bottle I have runs out,I"ll be making the switch


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Prime does promote slime coat. But it is a side effect that they never used to advertise. Its not an artificial slime coat, neither is it aggressively stimulated. All declorinators will "stimulate" the slime coat, thats why the fish has a slime coat to help protect it, the fact prime actually lets you know this is happening now is a good thing not a bad thing. The stress coats I stay away from are synthetic slime coatings like API Stress Coat.
*
Ammo-lock* will detoxify ammonia and remove chlorine and chloramine.

*Prime* will detoxify ammonia and remove chlorine and chloramine and also detoxify nitrite and nitrate. Prime also detoxify's heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels.

Its like comparing apples and oranges.

Using ammo-lock and stress coat together does roughly the same thing as prime bah the nitrite and nitrate detox. But this also provides a synthetic slime coating.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Also adding to what I said above:

*Ammo-lock:* 16 oz. treats 946 gallons

*Prime:* 16 oz. treats 5000 gallons

And prime is no where near 5 times the price.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

If i have say a Nitrate level of a 180 and do a 50% water change, wouldn't that mean i now have a Nitrate level of 90? I was told this by a professional. But for some reason it's not corresponding to the chart. Like it was on orange roughly 40, and i did a 50% water change and it was still orange


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You should. Maybe you have a hidden font of nitrates in your substrate or your filters? Try cleaning additional components until you get the nitrates to move downward.

Also, are there nitrates in your tap water?


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> You should. Maybe you have a hidden font of nitrates in your substrate or your filters? Try cleaning additional components until you get the nitrates to move downward.
> 
> Also, are there nitrates in your tap water?


No Nitrates in my tap water, that's the first thing i checked. I do quite a good gravel clean each time, basically the water i take out is crystal clear. I mean there's the old little bit of dirt but my gravel seems to be pretty clean. My filter i just cleaned recently so that shouldn't be a problem. I did another water change today, i removed all my ornament and did a deep gravel siphon, i held the siphon there for a good few seconds, i managed to get a lot of dirt out of the gravel from doing that. Hopefully this helps.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

If you have chloramine in your tap water, you are adding ammonia to the tank. The filter will handle it and create nitrate. Products like Ammolock don't remove the ammonia but make it non toxic, and the filter easily handles it. Unless you enjoy playing water chemist and spending money you don't need to, stay away from additives. Central American cichlids typically come from fairly hard to quite hard alkaline water. Most SA cichlids can easily tolerate quite hard alkaline water , and in fact thrive in it. Live with the water you have. Fish will do beter in stable conditions than fluctuating conditions that will often occur when chasing the "ideal" water.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

BillD said:


> If you have chloramine in your tap water, you are adding ammonia to the tank. The filter will handle it and create nitrate. Products like Ammolock don't remove the ammonia but make it non toxic, and the filter easily handles it. Unless you enjoy playing water chemist and spending money you don't need to, stay away from additives. Central American cichlids typically come from fairly hard to quite hard alkaline water. Most SA cichlids can easily tolerate quite hard alkaline water , and in fact thrive in it. Live with the water you have. Fish will do beter in stable conditions than fluctuating conditions that will often occur when chasing the "ideal" water.


Water Ager is meant to remove Chloramine though, so i shouldn't have any in my tank. Also if i leave the water as it is will the fish be fine? Will i just have to do a water change once a week and a bit of a clean? What about KH will i need to focus on that?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

According to the test kits, 40ppm of Nitrate is safe, but you would want to shoot for that as the maximum. So 40ppm before a water change and 20ppm after. Sounds like when you have your gravel completely clean things will be better.

pH and KH are a different issue...agree if your parameters are close the fish are happier with stability than perfection and avoid chemicals and additives if at all possible.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> According to the test kits, 40ppm of Nitrate is safe, but you would want to shoot for that as the maximum. So 40ppm before a water change and 20ppm after. Sounds like when you have your gravel completely clean things will be better.
> 
> pH and KH are a different issue...agree if your parameters are close the fish are happier with stability than perfection and avoid chemicals and additives if at all possible.


Thanks mate, is it possible if you can respond to my question in "Tank Setups" It's the topic "8ft Tank" I need this uestion answered ASAP!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Fatal said:


> Thanks mate, is it possible if you can respond to my question in "Tank Setups" It's the topic "8ft Tank" I need this uestion answered ASAP!


Sorry, I only know the African Rift Lake cichlids. Maybe try the stocking question in the forum specific to your fish? :thumb:


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