# Cycling and no chemistry change since I started



## Chili_girl (Jan 19, 2014)

I am cycling a 120g and have been adding ammonia every 2 days or so. The ammonia reading has been 0.0 an is still 0.00 and the nitrite 02-2 and still the same reading. I seeded with filter media and buckets of water from another tank thinking this would speed up the process. I have read the information on this website but I'm still not getting anything going. What am I doing wrong?


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## pelphrey (Apr 9, 2014)

What kind of ammonia are you using? I've always used dr tims pure ammonia. Also how much are you putting in the tank?


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

If you've used media from an established filter your tank won't cycle you just need to verify that the media is still good. You shouldn't see any nitrite the ammonia should just turn to nitrate. Fyi water from an established tank will provide no benefit.


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## Chili_girl (Jan 19, 2014)

I'm using just plain household ammonia with no added ingredients. I added 50 drop the 1st day, 50 drops two days later then read the instructions on this website which say to add 2 drops per gallon, for 120g tank that is 240 drops. It also said one teaspoon equals about 100 drops so I put 2 and 1/2 teaspoons two days later. Still zero reading. Guess I should just keep adding more ammonia? Seems like a lot.

I also added the filter media from another tank like the instructions say to expedite the process. I also read since then that adding water from another tank is not beneficial so I haven't bothered to add any more.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

What product are you using to test for ammonia?


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## dbradley26 (Apr 22, 2014)

I just finished cycling a 75 gallon from scratch and I was using 5 teaspoons full of ammonia per day. This was barely giving me a 2ppm reading of Ammonia. You may want to continue upping the dosage little by little and testing each time until you get a reading. 2.5 teaspoons in 120 gallons probably isn't doing much.


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## pelphrey (Apr 9, 2014)

Deeda said:


> What product are you using to test for ammonia?


I am curious what test kit you are using as well. The API freshwater test kit has given me proven results. With the dr tims ammonia its 1 drop per gallon. So in your case 120 drops would give you a reading. Since I always plan to stock heavily I shoot for a 4ppm reading. Even when I start to show nitrAtes I dose to 4ppm just to make sure I will be able to handle a full stocking once the cycle has finished. Also, when nitrItes start to get so high that they test off of the test kit I do large water changes.


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## Chili_girl (Jan 19, 2014)

I tested with both Seatest and Susswasser test kits. I think I will go get a new API test kit, these are pretty old.

bradley26, if you are using 5 tsp per day for a 75g, then I'm not adding nearly enough ammonia and not often enough for my 120g.

pelphrey, I too plan to stock pretty heavy. You are using 1 drop per gallon which is considerably less. I'll add more ammonia today and go get a new test kit and see what happens later today. Should I go for 3-4 tsp today?


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

How much ammonia out of the bottle you add to the tank also depends on the concentration of the solution in the bottle. A 5% solution has half the ammonia in a tsp than does a 10% solution, so that may be the reason for the variations. i recently cycled a 75G tank that by my estimation actually has about 65G of water in it (accounting for rock and substrate) and using a 10% solution from Ace Hardware, I found that 3-4 mL (there are 5 mL in a tsp) gave me about 2 ppm. I used a pipette/syringe like what you can get from a pharmacy for measuring liquid medications. I'd recommend putting the same or slightly greater amount of ammonia in that you've been using, let it sit for 15 minutes to let the filter thoroughly mix it, THEN test again to see what ppm of ammonia you introduced with YOUR solution. you can then adjust up or down based on that to get to 2-3 ppm, which should be plenty for a heavily stocked Mbuna tank. I'd also expect that if you seeded it with material from your existing 75G, you probably have some reasonable bacteria populations already, and it's processing ammonia down to zero in 24 hours. Definitely grab yourself a new kit, as the testing solutions do have a bit of life expectancy.

I also find that the "first phase" of bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrites, is always faster and easier to "grow" than the second phase that converts the (very toxic to fish) nitrites to nitrates. If you're consistently processing 2-4 ppm ammonia in 24 hours, you could be generating tons of nitrites, and oddly enough, if there is too much nitrite (like more than 2 ppm with API test kit) the growth of the nitrite consuming bacteria is greatly inhibited. A partial water change will fix that for you if that's the case. If you find that after adding 2-4 ppm today, tomorrow you have zero ammonia and zero nitrites, then test for nitrates and it should be fairly orange red, and your tank is cycled and ready for fish (do a 50% pwc to get nitrates down!).


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Simply test for ammonia directly after adding it. If you get a zero reading at this stage, something is wrong. Either you are not adding enough, or your test kit is dead. It should take the bacteria hours to break down the ammonia. If your reading is 2ppm after adding, and zero the next morning, you are well on your way. It should not take long for nitrite to show up then, or even nitrate, if you have already completed the second phase.


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## Chili_girl (Jan 19, 2014)

I bought all new API test kits. Yesterday I added 3 1/2 tsp ammonia which is slightly more than I have been adding, waited 15 minutes and got an ammonia reading of 0.50 and nitrite 02.2, nitrate 40. Then added another 2 1/2 tsp and waited 15 minutes and got an ammonia reading of 2.0 an nitrite still 02.2. Today, before I added anything I get an ammonia reading of 1.0, nitrite still 0.5, nitrate still 40. Should I just keep adding ammonia? Should I do a water change and assume my cycIe is completed?

This is my first fishless cycle I have ever tried and this seems very difficult. I wanted to try it to see if I could do it and for ethical reason. I have kept fish for years and have never had this much trouble before cycling a tank.

----just not a chemist I guess


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## dbradley26 (Apr 22, 2014)

Chili_girl said:


> I bought all new API test kits. Yesterday I added 3 1/2 tsp ammonia which is slightly more than I have been adding, waited 15 minutes and got an ammonia reading of 0.50 and nitrite 02.2, nitrate 40. Then added another 2 1/2 tsp and waited 15 minutes and got an ammonia reading of 2.0 an nitrite still 02.2. Today, before I added anything I get an ammonia reading of 1.0, nitrite still 0.5, nitrate still 40. Should I just keep adding ammonia? Should I do a water change and assume my cycIe is completed?
> 
> This is my first fishless cycle I have ever tried and this seems very difficult. I wanted to try it to see if I could do it and for ethical reason. I have kept fish for years and have never had this much trouble before cycling a tank.
> 
> ----just not a chemist I guess


I would add the 6 tsp total again today and continue testing ammonia and nitrite until you see a 0 reading on both after 24 hours. I wouldn't worry about testing your nitrates until you see a 0 nitrite reading. My understanding is that you can actually get a false nitrate reading with nitrites present. It just takes a little bit of patience, it won't be that hard and you will feel rewarded when it completes.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

So, for your tank and ammonia solution, you need 6 tsp (or 2 Tbsp) of ammonia to generate a 2 ppm "bioload" in your aquarium. This is good to know! 2 ppm per day is a fairly robust biofilter capacity. Fishless cycling is all about growing the 2 types of bacteria that will process your fishes waste, and they work in sequence. First ammonia is converted to nitrites, then nitrites converted to nitrates. Your tank will be cycled when you put 2ppm ammonia in, and 24 hours later you have zero ammonia (yellow tube) and zero nitrite (lt blue) with some postive level of nitrates (orange-red), since you will have grown colonies of both kinds of bacteria that work together. Your tank is currently working on the ammonia, as evidenced by its decrease, and you may have some nitrite consuming bacteria present, since you seeded it with media from another established tank. Unless your nitrite test is zero, your nitrate test will not be accurate, due to the way those tests are chemically designed. So, now you just wait until the ammonia and nitrites go to zero, then add some more ammonia (and it should go to zero much faster) until your 2ppm ammonia is completely transformed to nitrates in 24 hours.


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## Chili_girl (Jan 19, 2014)

OK, I did like you said. The 6 tsp ammonia reduce to zero in 24 hours now for two days in a row. This is the objective, correct? To simulate the fish waste elimination consistently.

However the Nitrites never went up or down through this whole process, they have consistently stayed at the lowest and next to the lowest reading. I am using API test kit (but this one is a dip stick) which I kind or doubt it's reliability.

Am I safe to add fish now?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

What is your nitrate reading now?

Once the ammonia is consumed in the 24 hour period, there is almost always an increasing amount of nitrite, sometimes spiking extremely high.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I entirely skipped the nitrite step with a fishless cycle in a 20 gallon where I added a fair amount of established media. But you need to be positive that your nitrite is absolutely 0 and you have a positive nitrate reading with 0 ppm nitrite in the tank.


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## Chili_girl (Jan 19, 2014)

Nitrates have stayed t 0.50 to 1, never spiked. I don't understand either.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Chili_girl said:


> Nitrates have stayed t 0.50 to 1, never spiked. I don't understand either.


I have never seen a reading for nitrates below 10ppm. What test kit are you using?


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## Chili_girl (Jan 19, 2014)

I meant nitrites not nitrates, sorry. Nitrates are reading 20-40.

Nitrites have stayed the same through this whole process and never spiked.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Dipstick test as in test strips?


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## Chili_girl (Jan 19, 2014)

Yes. I have liquid ammonia and nitrate test kits and the nitrite test is a dip test strip. All are new and all are api brand.


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## Chili_girl (Jan 19, 2014)

Reading now 0 ammonia, 0-0.5 nitrite and 80 nitrate.

Has been processing approx 6 tsp of ammonia per day, but nitrite reading still low.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Yea it's tough to read a test strip, especially nitrite and nitrate.


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## Chili_girl (Jan 19, 2014)

Readings are all still the same after several more days of testing.

Put in 6 tsp ammonia, reading is 1.0 to 2.0, then goes to zero after 24 hours. It has done this for several days.

Nitrite still 0 to 0.5 every single time. This is a new API test kit. Tested for nitrAte just to see and is very high 80.
Going to LFS to have water tested today.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Considering you used seeded filter material, it's entirely possible that you've basically skipped the "spiking" nitrite step, as Iggy mentioned, since you had a head start of nitrifying bacteria in the seeded material, so they got right to work! Seems like it's processing through to Nitrates like it's supposed to. I'd want to be certain of the nitrite reading, I guess, but I think its quite likely done and ready to go!


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## Chili_girl (Jan 19, 2014)

My nitrite finalllllly spiked today. Wow, I just didn't realize it took that long. Thank all of you for your patience and information. Just waiting for it to go down now to order my stock. I feel so stupid now. Like I said, this is my first attempt at fishless cycling. I guess I thought the process would be much quicker because I seeded with the filter media from my other tank. I will post pictures soon. Thanks again to all.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

The length of time for cycling can vary quite a bit, even with bottled bacteria products and seeded media.


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