# UGJ



## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Just wonered if anyone has tried the various drip irragation tubing and fittings for a ugj system :-?


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

I've thought about using something like that connected to one of the jets and snaking them behind my rock formations to help keep the cave and crevaces clear of detritus. A while back I read of someone doing something like that but I haven't a clue what website it was on. :-?


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

I think Mcdaphnia posted it?


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Thanx for the replies..I was looking for something other than usual 1/2 pvc with the squashed 90`s as jets. The tubing will probably need to be set in hot water(the family tub will do  ) to get it to uncoil and stay reliteivly straight, as far as using the emmiters..would probably need to massage em for the flow I would want.
Just gotta love the way this stuff goes together though.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

To those that been there, done that..I ask
closed loop??external pump??
I know, if you have a box of unused powerheads that is what you(I)would use.
Starting from scratch, on a strict budget( she just will not allow unlimted spending :x ) what, which way would you go if you could do it all over again. :-?


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

If your on a tight budget I say skip it altogether. I am not a big fan of UGJ. I had them for a while and learned to hate them. And to me its not just the implementation but the whole concept. But thats just me.

With that said, I did both open loop and closed loop. I found the pressure to be more equal per jet with the open loop. I also recommend an external pump. The main reason is for heat and potential noise pollution. I was using three rio 2100 pumps in a 125 and at least in the summer it raised the water about 7 degrees. In the winter time that may not be a problem, but during the summer it was not desirable. Also, when used inside the tank there is a good chance of them generating unwanted noise. Some people have been able to avoid the noise, and it could be based on the type of pump used, but there are many posts of people who were never able to quiet them down. I could never identify the exact reason but I think it specifically had to do with the pump in conjunction with the UGJ PVC setup since the pump alone was never a problem. But if you are using irrigation line I think this may be a moot point.

One thing I always contemplated, on the subject of irrigation systems, instead of using the conventional PVC design, is to basically set up an underwater sprinkler system in the substrate. I think this could ameliorate some of the flaws of the PVC UGJ. Along with that I think having several strong jets is not as desirable as many softer jets. The strong jets, in my experience, just tended to push the poop somewhere else. To me this is really one of the downfalls to the whole UGJ concept. Technically the UGJ work great for creating flow in the tank, but I could never get the floating waste into the filter - just nestled tightly behind rocks. To combat this I think it would have been prudent to go with a lesser flow rate through each jet rather than trying to maximize it. This could also potentially reduce the cost of the pump if you dont need large GPH. After all it doesn't take a lot to move poop in water. A gentle push can go a long way.

Also, depending on how you did it, if you mimicked a sprinkler system there could be more potential for making adjustments. That was one of my biggest frustrations, basically having to take the whole tank apart to make any changes. Having done it twice I don't wish that on anyone.

I know some people have also avoided jets by placing the PVC pipe in the substrate and then just drilling holes in the PVC. This way there are no jets visible to uglify your tank. Basically its like an under-substrate spray bar.

Another thing to consider is an AGJ (ASJ) system. I just made that up, but it would be an Above Substrate Jets. In other words provide the plumbing necessary to provide a few outlets hidden in your tank, but don't put them under the substrate. Maybe you could hide them in some rockwork or plants, etc. Not having the plumbing buried in the substrate makes adjustments a lot easier. Also, positioning the outlets at different heights in the tank give you better control of the water flow throughout the whole tank. As I said, when I used my UGJ I didn't have a problem with the jets pushing stuff off of the substrate. The problem came once the poop was in the water it would usually end up either in a dead sport or more likely behind a rock somewhere. If the jets were spread throughout the tank at different levels I might have been able to control the flow more accurately to get the floating poop a better chance at reaching the filter intake.

Of course the cheapest, and often most overlooked, option is to vacuum the substrate. This is the method I have come to love. Its cheap, easy, quiet, and offers the best biological advantage. To me this is the biggest hoodwink of UGJ-mania. It is purely a cosmetic fix. Even a perfectly designed and implemented UGJ system cannot remove poop from the water system while vacumming can. And, when done often, for instance with water changes, I have never had a problem with poop being visible on the substrate anyway.

As much as I don't like UGJ, I love talking about them.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Many thanx,


> As much as I don't like UGJ, I love talking about them.


Please, I`m all ears.... :wink: 
Must admit, I printed it out, so as to go over your experiance, suggestions, more than once.
Best discourse on subject I have seen . :thumb:


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

This thread was a little more current to my frustration:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... &&start=30

If you are up for some reading do a search on this forum for "UGJ". Lots of good (and bad) information out there. Also, I know I definitely saw a post that tackled UGJ using irrigation line, I just couldn't find it in 5 minutes of looking so I gave up, but if you read through a lot of the posts you should come across it.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Whewwwww, been through so many past posts, me poor eyeballs were receding...
Have decided to shelve the whole UGJ thing untill retirement, looked like I would need the xtra time to tinker  
Thanx for the adivice/counsul :thumb:


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