# My first holding female!



## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I just got home from my girlfriends house and went to admire my tank. After only a few seconds of inspecting my fish I noticed that one of my female Auilonocara jacobfreibergi "lemon jake"s had a strange bulge under her jaw. After further inspection I could actually see the eggs floating around in her mouth. I didn't think they'd be that big.

Heres a quick pic I took. Nothing fancy, just snapped it with my iPhone.










I'm not sure which male finally did it. I have a 5+" male and 5 young 2.5+" females. Or atleast they were supposed to be females, but since I added them to the tank one of them has started coloring up and shown himself as a male. So far no aggression between the two males, but I'm sure its just a matter of time.

Alright, so since this is my first time with a holding female I want to make sure I get this right.

I have a 20g long that is currently holding 4 ameca splendens that are going to be dithers in the CA build I'm working on. The water is the same as my malawi tank other than that it is currently unheated. Could I put the mom in here until she spits? I could go pick up a heater and a tank seperater tomorrow.

When should I move her?

Should I let her spit or sould I strip her since its her first time holding as far as I know.

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but I need to get ready for work.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Also, how many fry should I expect? Its her first time, so I'm assuming it won't be that many.

Any advice on how to prevent her from spitting early or swallowing the eggs/fry, or should I not worry too much about this?

I have two more 20g longs coming soon, assuming they past the leak test. So I will have a growout tank and a hospital tank for the mom to recover in. How long should I let the mom recover for, around a week?


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Congrats just to start!
Seeing that it is her first time holding I would def separate her from the rest of the colony. She will get a lot of aggression from the male and esp if that other is in fact a juev male. This stress like you said could easily make her swallow the eggs/fry. If you your self don't have any experience in stripping I would put her in the 20g long tank that you mentioned with a tank divider so she is alone. seeing that she is only 2.5" that should be enough room for her. Let her spit on her own and then put her back in the main tank! Once she spits keep the fry in that 20g long(hopefully you will have moved the 4 ameca splendens to your CA tank) as a grow out tank. You do want to keep a tank divider up in the 20g as long as the 4 ameca splendens are in there b/c even though they are small fish they are notorious fin nippers and the fry and holding mother won't have much defense and that will just be more stress on her and the fry once she is gone! As far as a heater goes b/c i live in Florida i have no advice on that but just to keep the water consistent with the water temp she is coming out of! Good luck keep us posted with pics of the spit and fry!


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

I would expect 15- 20


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks for the advice.

The ameca splendens are probably going to be in there for a while. I've been very busy, so the build is going pretty slow.

I will have two more 20g longs probably either this weekend or next weekend. I will set them up as grow out tanks.

I shouldn't let her recover before putting her back? I will have a seperate tank available to let her recover, so she won't be in with the fry.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Here's a few more pics...

I need to start taking these at night to get rid of the reflections.

Holding female:









Larger Male:
Unfortunately he didn't feel like showing off his finnage.






























Young Male:
He's coloring up nicely. About a week ago he barely had any yellow and absolutely no blue.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Nice pics
You can keep her isolated in another tank after she spits the only problem is that if she is out of the tank for too long then when you reintroduce her to the main tank it will be like adding a single new fish and she will be picked on a lot! She will be weak from not eating while she is holding and I would say that if she is still in the main tank now and you don't see a lot of stress being put on her (chasing around, biting fins etc) I would leave her in there for as long as possible. Then when she gets closer to spitting usually 18-21 days I would then move her over. Do research on that species though and see how long they usually hold. I wouldn't remove her unless there is a lot of aggression like i mentioned this way she isn't away from the colony for a really long time. nice pics again!


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks, I'll try looking for more info on the species. I've looked before with out much luck, but there must be something out there.

I haven't seen any signs of aggression against the holding female. The young male does occassionaly chase the other three females, but seems to be ignoring the mother. The older male show little interest in any of the females. He does chase once in a while, but only for a short distance.

I just noticed that one of my male saulosi is trying to attract some female attention in the first pic of the large male. They do this alot, but so far have not spawned. But they are still young and only one of my males has really started getting his blue coloration.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

A little info nothing on breeding in this article but good info as far as temperament and feeding is concerned. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/a ... ibergi.php

some basic info on breeding....
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m ... eeding.php

some good things to know when breeding....
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... _terms.php

General raising of the fry info....
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/raising_fry.php

Good luck with the whole process keep me post via this thread or PM I might be interested in the fry :thumb: I have over 200 Red Jewel fry now in my fry tank haha


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks. I hadn't read the species article yet, although I had read the other two.

I'll keep updating this post as I go.

Nice, I've been looking into jewels recently. I may be interested in some of your fry too if your planning in selling. :thumb:


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Indeed they work great to have some in a 29long or something like that to have a species specific thank they are beautiful... some pics of the parents....

This is the female with some of the fry I left in the 55g so they didn't get stressed!









This is the big boy male... haha he has alot more red than most males so I'm hoping he passed it on to the fry haha









and just for s**ts and giggles here is my red zebra holding in the same tank...

















so fun!!


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Great looking jewels!

I'm really happy I finally have spawn. I've been waiting so impatiently ever since I first got my saulosi.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Well you might have had to wait till the water gets right once your fish spawn and have fry thats a for sure sign that you have your water parameters right and consistent! cheers!


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Maybe, although I was pretty consistent with my water changes and buffers. I'm actually less consistent now. I used to measure out exactly the same amount of buffers per five gallons each time, now I just eyeball it. :lol:

I think the saulosi just haven't been mature enough yet and the aulonocara have only been in the tank for maybe a couple months.

Either way I'm hoping this is a sign of things to come. :thumb:


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Ok, time for an update.

Nothing really big to update about.

I'm not sure if maybe she swallowed the eggs or what. She is still acting like she is holding, but the bulge in her throat is much smaller now. Although there is still a definite bulge. Maybe she swallowed some of them. This weekend I will be moving her to the 20g long and putting a tank divider in to keep the amecas seperate. Saturday will be day 11.

One of my male saulosi is almost completely colored up and has become a bit more aggressive. I still don't see any problems, but he does tend to nip a little bit during feeding now. He also starts face offs with the other males more frequently. But no noticable aggression towards the aulonocara.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I just finally caught the female. It was a pain since she like to just hide under the rocks when I went after her.

I was going to just remove all the rocks, but I decided to try one last thing before I did that. What I did was chase her to one side of the tank where I only have a few rocks and the cave is only big enough for my syno multies. I then used a homemade divider that I put together out of some eggcrate and plastic mesh that I had sitting around. Here's a pic:










Not very pretty I know, but it did the job. I didn't have anything to tie the mesh to the eggcrate so I had to weave the mesh into the eggcrate.

What I did was put the divider in sideways and then chase the female past it, then turn the divider and hold it in place with some rocks. The whole process took about 15 minutes after I had made the divider.

She is now sitting in the divided 20g long and is not too happy with me. You could tell she was angry. She turned dark grey and started biting at the rocks and glass, then just glared at me until I walked away. :lol:


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## Babydelux3 (Jun 28, 2010)

tokyo said:


> I just finally caught the female. It was a pain since she like to just hide under the rocks when I went after her.
> 
> I was going to just remove all the rocks, but I decided to try one last thing before I did that. What I did was chase her to one side of the tank where I only have a few rocks and the cave is only big enough for my syno multies. I then used a homemade divider that I put together out of some eggcrate and plastic mesh that I had sitting around. Here's a pic:
> 
> ...


Ha ha, Please let us know what happens! I'm going through the same thing right now with my Johanni. For about a week she was VERY swollen and yesterday her chin went down quite a bit, but still has a noticeable bulge.

I don't know if she swallowed her fry or what, but I most likely will be putting her in my 10g breeding tank just to see what happens tomorrow night. Hoping the fry is still there. :[


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

My aulonocara female's bulge went down a while ago, but I've noticed that sometimes its bigger than others. I think it depends on whether or not she's "tumbling" the eggs/fry.

She has calmed down a bit now. I put in a couple extra rocks to create a nice cave for her. I also added a shell and some tight caves that she won't be able to fit in, to give her fry a place to hide, just in case she decides to go cannibalistic after spitting.


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## Babydelux3 (Jun 28, 2010)

tokyo said:


> My aulonocara female's bulge went down a while ago, but I've noticed that sometimes its bigger than others. I think it depends on whether or not she's "tumbling" the eggs/fry.
> 
> She has calmed down a bit now. I put in a couple extra rocks to create a nice cave for her. I also added a shell and some tight caves that she won't be able to fit in, to give her fry a place to hide, just in case she decides to go cannibalistic after spitting.


Oh really? Well, I hope that's the case. (Tumbling) I would hate to put her through the stress of transferring to a new tank for no reason.

I might try to lift her lip to see if I see anything.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I wouldn't try opening her mouth unless you plan on stripping. Maybe thats just me, but after being chased down and netted she's already going to be pretty stressed. I'd either put her in a holding tank to relax and spit when she's ready or strip her and put her back in the tank.


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## Babydelux3 (Jun 28, 2010)

Just went to put her in the breeder tank, and she totally lost the fry. She's eating like crazy again and no bulge what so ever.

Better luck next time?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

That's unfortunate, but you will have another chance. Probably relatively soon too.

My female seems to be pretty stressed being on her own. I put a bunch of rock in with her to try and calm her down, but she's still pretty stressed.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

She spit!

I now have 8 little fry swimming around in a 10g. :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish:

I only just filled the tank so there are still bubbles all over the inside walls. I tried to get rid of the on the side that I was taking the pictures through.


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## Babydelux3 (Jun 28, 2010)

Wow, congrats!


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Update time!

All teh fry are still alive and well. I am feeding a fry crumble that I bought with one of my orders of fish. I also have some brine shrimp eggs incubating right now which should be ready in a couple days.

One of the fry has claimed the shell for him/herself. Its pretty funny, he sits in front of it and watches out for danger then when I come close he goes inside and just pokes his head out. Here are some pics of him hiding.


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## Babydelux3 (Jun 28, 2010)

Awww! I'm so jealous!


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

**UPDATE**

Since the last update the fry have doubled in size. 

They are now happily accepting both prepared and live foods.

Here are a few pics. Ignore the mess, I missed a water change yesterday and will have to do one tonight after work. I try and change 50% of the water every other day.


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## AC/DC (Jul 8, 2010)

Hi Tokyo, normally it will take around 20-30 days before she will spit! Sometimes they will swollow fry,but i have found that the fry can actually move futher down the mothers throat giving the appearence that shes swollowed when infact she hasnt! Good luck :thumb:


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## AquaticLove (Jul 13, 2010)

Grats! Are you planning on keeping all of the fry, or selling?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I am planning on selling, although I may grow them out until the males start to color up before selling. I haven't decided yet. Depends on how bad I need the tank space.


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## AquaticLove (Jul 13, 2010)

tokyo said:


> I am planning on selling, although I may grow them out until the males start to color up before selling. I haven't decided yet. Depends on how bad I need the tank space.


Locally or US wide? I'd be interested. Hehe.


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