# Tank Plumbing Help



## RobMc (Feb 13, 2007)

Over the next while I plan on building a plywood aquarium (250gal), but I want to get all my plans drawn up before I begin. This is my rendition of a plumbing schematic (sp) for my tank, and I'm wondering if I could get some feedback....I've never done anything remotely close to plumbing, and I'd like to get this right before I begin.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

What sort of valve are you planning to use for your 4-hour spraybar switch? Is this an attempt to avoid poo buildup, since presumably the two spraybar configurations would have different dead-spots?

You've drawn 5 overflows, are these simply bulkheads along the back of the tank at the desired water height? Are you planning to route them all through the same pipe to the sump, or is that just a simplification for the drawing? I would lean towards having multiple pipes if you're using multiple overflows, though at the very least you'll want to make sure that combined pipe is significantly fatter than your overflows.

What sort of emergency is the emergency drain planned for? If I'm understanding your drawing correctly, then I would be afraid that the emergency drain would be more likely to cause an emergency than help with one.

You will need to do something to ensure that your UGJ return will not back-siphon on a power outage. There are a variety of ways to do this, but i believe they will all involve routing at least part of that return to the same heigh as, or just below the desired water level in the tank, and having a way to introduce air into that high-point of the pipe when the water level drops. The way it's drawn now, a power-outtage will drain the entire tank into the sump (and presumably onto the floor unless your sump is bigger than your main tank...)

Another water change option might be to redirect the spraybar output to the drain, that way you're not affecting the main tank at all... just drain the sump, and refill the sump. You can eve n have a wee powerhead for circulation of the new water until the heater (which presumably lives in the sump) gets the temp correct, and any buffers have had a chance to dissolve/homogenize or whatever. Of course you don't want to be putting chlorinated water on your filter media, so maybe it's not such a good idea at that .

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## RobMc (Feb 13, 2007)

Wow...thanks for the feedback. You must have done some of this before! First I'll answer your questions:


> What sort of valve are you planning to use for your 4-hour spraybar switch? Is this an attempt to avoid poo buildup, since presumably the two spraybar configurations would have different dead-spots?


That was sort of an idea I had to kinda mix things up in the tank. It was an idea I had when I was thinking of a marine setup so as to act like the changing of tides. No reall benefit, and I don't even know if I can get a valve with a timer on it  


> You've drawn 5 overflows, are these simply bulkheads along the back of the tank at the desired water height? Are you planning to route them all through the same pipe to the sump, or is that just a simplification for the drawing? I would lean towards having multiple pipes if you're using multiple overflows, though at the very least you'll want to make sure that combined pipe is significantly fatter than your overflows.


They would be in fact bulkheads on the rear wall. And what you say makes total sense with regards to the larger diameter pipe. Can I ask your reasoning behind why you would lean towards individual pipes to the sump?


> What sort of emergency is the emergency drain planned for? If I'm understanding your drawing correctly, then I would be afraid that the emergency drain would be more likely to cause an emergency than help with one.


Being that it will be a plywood aquarium...if I needed to remove the water in a hurry (from tank failure) that would be the quickest way that I can think of. Turn a valve and watch er go. The drain will actually be a connection to a drain pipe in my house coming from the upper floors.


> Another water change option might be to redirect the spraybar output to the drain, that way you're not affecting the main tank at all... just drain the sump, and refill the sump. You can eve n have a wee powerhead for circulation of the new water until the heater (which presumably lives in the sump) gets the temp correct, and any buffers have had a chance to dissolve/homogenize or whatever. Of course you don't want to be putting chlorinated water on your filter media, so maybe it's not such a good idea at that .


I like that idea. :thumb: I live on well water, so chlorine is not a concern for me.

Mainly my ideas are kind of geared towards the ease of anything that "could" happen. That includes me actually doing a water change!


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

RobMc said:


> Wow...thanks for the feedback. You must have done some of this before!


You're quite welcome . I haven't, actually, though I've planned it on a smaller scale. Sadly I've done more reading/researching than actual doing (thus my "armchair" status).



> That was sort of an idea I had to kinda mix things up in the tank. It was an idea I had when I was thinking of a marine setup so as to act like the changing of tides. No reall benefit, and I don't even know if I can get a valve with a timer on it


I like it, actually. It'd be considerably more expensive but with 2 pumps and a regular old timer you could probably make it work out... maybe do something like on for 5 hours, off for 3 so there's plenty of overlap between the 2 pumps and even if your timing is a little skewed you shouldn't ever get both pumps off. If you're just looking for changing currents, you could also look into a SCWD... it operates considerably faster than 4 hours though, and is more of a "surge" generator than a tide generator.



> they would be in fact bulkheads on the rear wall. And what you say makes total sense with regards to the larger diameter pipe. Can I ask your reasoning behind why you would lean towards individual pipes to the sump?


Redundancy mostly, and i'm paranoid. And it *might* be a little quieter, but who knows.



> Being that it will be a plywood aquarium...if I needed to remove the water in a hurry (from tank failure) that would be the quickest way that I can think of. Turn a valve and watch er go. The drain will actually be a connection to a drain pipe in my house coming from the upper floors.


Ah, that makes sense. IMHO i'd worry more about bulkhead failure than mass tank failure, but we each have to ease our own fears, and they're all likely unfounded .



> Mainly my ideas are kind of geared towards the ease of anything that "could" happen. That includes me actually doing a water change!


Easier is always better! The really key things when designing the plumbing for a sump system is to make sure you never have a situation where any of the following happen :

1) Water stops flowing from the tank to the sump. This leads to the sump emptying itself into the main tank, which likely means the main tank overflows, and you get a wet floor.

2) Water stops flowing from the sump to the tank (if, for instance, the power went off, or the cat pulled the cord to your water pump out of the wall, or your 3-year old fed his peanut-butter jelly sandwich to the sump pump) , but water continues to flow from the tank to the sump. This leads to the tank emptying itself into the sump, which likely means the sump overflows, and you get a wet floor.

Wet floors are bad . Properly designed plumbing can be nearly bulletproof though (but I would NOT recommend discharging a firearm at your new plywood tank), especially if you're drilling the tank and properly installing your bulkheads, etc.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who offers up a whole box full of morton's since he hasn't actually build a sump at all yet, and was planning for a *much* smaller system to the tune of a 29gallon tank with a 10 gallon sump and a kitty-litter tub for a trickle filter tower)


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I would do my water changes in the sump, to preserve the tank water level and not disturb the fish. Changing water levels frequently could disrupt any natural behaviors a large tank might otherwise permit. Plus since it's plywood, the flexing of the wood as the water level changes could over time cause leaks in the waterproofing. I would use medium density overlay plywood or euroboard for its flat surface and stability. I would not put holes in the tank except at the maximum water level if any. A bulkhead fitting may be leaking slowly unobserved because the water is absorbed by the interior of the plywood. Nothing visible until you realise the inside of the plywood has become soaked.


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## RobMc (Feb 13, 2007)

I do like the idea of doing the water changes in the sump. Very simple, and the new water will be "conditioned" properly by the time it gets to the tank. I could easly run a tee from my house water and run a pipe straight to the sump with a valve. All of the bulkheads, even the UGJ could in theory be installed at the high water mark I guess. Just a little forethought into hiding the pvc pipe as it runs down the inside wall would be all that is needed. The only bulkhead that would need to be near the bottom would be the emergency drain. Maybe I can figure out another way to remove the water quickly without having a "weak point" so deep in the tank...any sugestions?

Rick what is a SCWD? I've never heard of it....or at least I don' think I have.

Mcdaphnia thanks for the tip on the MDO plywood. I googled it, and I like the "coated with resin, and resists water qualitites"! Now I'll just have to see how much more expensive it is.


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## brycerb (Dec 23, 2007)

SCWD (Switching Current Water Director)


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## ben1988 (May 2, 2009)

*** read a lt of posts of people building plywood tanks. the thing i have alway wondered is why not use a layer of cement board and then plywood? 
water>fiberglass/resin>cement board>MDO plywood x 2 layers
I would use glue and screws to hold all the layers together for added stength and rigidity. Then use 2x6 to Skin the whole thing in a second rigid layer then use a thin wood cover to paint. I think this setup would keep everything nice and tight nce filled with water. Yes its more lumber than needed on the skining but i think it would lat much longer than most tend too...


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## RobMc (Feb 13, 2007)

I do remember reading something about using cement board on either this forum or another, but I can't remember the pros or cons about it.

I did however find that at one place MDO plywood is expensive....$128 a sheet. I'll have to call around on Monday to get some other price quotes.

The more I talk about it and do research on it...I want to start it!! But the one thing that I've read over and over again is "Patience, Patience, Patience". I hope when I do begin that I can tell myself that and not screw anything up.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

RobMc said:


> I do remember reading something about using cement board on either this forum or another, but I can't remember the pros or cons about it.
> 
> I did however find that at one place MDO plywood is expensive....$128 a sheet. I'll have to call around on Monday to get some other price quotes.
> 
> The more I talk about it and do research on it...I want to start it!! But the one thing that I've read over and over again is "Patience, Patience, Patience". I hope when I do begin that I can tell myself that and not screw anything up.


MDO is about that here, and special order, except at a wholesalers in the next county where it's about $40.

Cement board, commonly used instead of drywall under kitchen or bath areas that will be tiled, has to be sealed with the type of paint used to prevent water from seeping through basement walls. It is very heavy so the empty tank will be difficult to move. Granite or other nonpermeable rock with "countertop" dimensions might do the same thing and not need to be painted. Glazed ceramic tile might work too. It's one of those experiments down on the list I'd like to try some day.


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## RobMc (Feb 13, 2007)

$40...WOW. I was directed to a wholesaler who carries it and have sent them an email. Hopefully on Monday when they open they''ll send me a nice message stating a price like that! I could see this project started sooner than later if I could get the MDO for that price.

I still have to decide on my sump as well. Will I build it or modify an existing tank that I have?!?


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## RobMc (Feb 13, 2007)

I just had a thought....with my design and the bulkheads draining the tank from the rear wall of the tank...how much noise do you think would that produce?


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

RobMc said:


> I just had a thought....with my design and the bulkheads draining the tank from the rear wall of the tank...how much noise do you think would that produce?


 No more than one or two toilets flushing.... in the worst case. If you have a canopy enclosing the top of the tank and other pumps, bubblers, etc. it may blend in with background noise. If not, a stereo system playing waterfall or tide sounds. One overlooked cure for noisy pipes is to angle them a little instead of the neat and crisp look of perfectly vertical pipes. That gives the water a side it will fall against and the air can go up the other side with less turbulent interaction. It won't silence the pipe 100%, but it can make the difference between acceptable sound levels and not!


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## RobMc (Feb 13, 2007)

That's another couple of points I can take and store them away for use. The tank will be in a wall in my furnace room, so the noise might not be a big problem...nor the angled pipes.


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