# The Heater is the weakest link in this hobby



## frschul (Mar 10, 2004)

Do you think the weakest link in this hobby is "THE HEATERS"...
How many tanks of fish have been broiled due to a heater ?
I have had the cheap heaters and the expensive heaters 40.00+
same results ... One time or another they failed at some point in time.
So is it just better to replace heaters after a few years of use....
Every 3 or 4 months I see the same problem on different forums..
Heater cooks fish... 
That is why I say heat the area as to heating the tank.
Bad, bad feeling when a $25 - $40 heater fails and cooks a tank of fish worth
$250.00 - $1500.00+ ...

That is why heaters have been the weakest link in this hobby.
The post below by PCFishMan prompted me to post my above views on heaters.

PCFishMan:
Hello Everybody.. I havent really posted but a couple times years ago but Im a lurker often and enjoy all the information I have gotten from this forum. I am hoping you all will heed my disaster and not duplicate it. I had a colony of tropheus Ilangi F1s that I had started in 2002. Started with 15 and settled in to 40 or so.. gave quite a few away. I had only lost 2 fish ever and that was in the last year to what I determined was basically old age. In fact the two that had died were breeding females. Seems like they grow old faster than the males with the breeding cycle being as rough on them as it is. I always let them hold their eggs and spit in the tank... it seems like they would be awful skinny by the time they released.. Does anybody know the average lifespan of tropheus in a tank? All of my original fish were looking old at 7 years.

On the positive side, I think I had such good luck with the fish because they got well water at about 800 ppm TDS, no chlorine or other chems.. and they sure loved the water changes. so if you have well water good for you get a tropheus colony! anyway thats a side note and just an observation.

I am now looking to sell my 110 gallon Tenecor as I cant afford to restock it since I got laid off. But the point of my post is that we should all be replacing heaters every couple or few years. I come to this conclusion as my heater was 4 years old and was the best you can buy, a digital pro heat... anyway the thing stuck on full blast and fried my whole colony. They were fine the night before when I fed and observed... I spoke with a buddy about it and he informed me that in his experience, which has been life long, like mine, he had lost a full tank from the same thing years ago. I really miss my fish. I hope none of you have to wake up to such a terrible thing. Replace those heaters....

peace 
PC


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

If you get an external temperature controller/thermostat you pretty much eliminate the concerns of a heater cooking the fish. The external controller does exactly that, turns the heater (or heaters) off and on, based upon water temperature and without the failings that come with combining the thermostat with the heater itself. If the heater gets stuck "on", it does not matter because the external controller will power it off when the designated temperature is reached.

But you are right, heaters are generally the "weak link". But as I mentioned, there is way to "fix" this.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Do you think the weakest link in this hobby is "THE HEATERS"...


Yes!! Also often the cheapest piece of equipment in the system. There are lemons in every batch, from every vendor out there IME.



> So is it just better to replace heaters after a few years of use....


No, because you may replace it with one of the lemons. I read that post, and I understand that from his experience, he'd be led to suggest that, but there's no guarantee and plenty of risks even when replacing them. The new one may fail within 12 months while the old one might have been working fine. I don't think regular replacement is the answer.

I think *kmuda* is right about getting the controller, but they're $75. I've been looking at them and mulling this over for a while now. Not always practical depending on number of tanks, but then again, we'd spend that for a filter and not think twice. Why am I so cheap when it comes to heaters that can wipe out expensive fish? I need five of those controllers for my big tanks. I don't even want to do the math. Too late to ask Santa.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

kmuda said:


> If you get an external temperature controller/thermostat you pretty much eliminate the concerns of a heater cooking the fish.


Do you have experience with one you'd recommend? I've been looking at this one, the ETC1-1R.


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## Tinga (Nov 27, 2009)

I've actually never thought about a heater controller until just now.. Might have another thing to add to my "GET" list. I'm also interested in reputable controllers as well..

opcorn:


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## frschul (Mar 10, 2004)

I too have been thinking about the controllers and I do say controllers because of the number of tanks that I have. Never thought about them in the past because I had 92 tanks so I heated the room. I have about 5 tanks in different areas so a controller for each tank... tooooo much $$$.
Do they make a controller that will handle multiple tanks ?
That would be worth while investing in....


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

The other option (harder to do) is to size the heater so it has the ability to raise the tank temp no higher than something in the upper 80's if it sticks on. Every tank and room is different, so it'd take some testing and investment in different size heaters. Also would have to be done with no fish in the tank, of course.

I'd just hate to invest in a $75 controller or 2 or 3 only to find that it can fail also.


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

prov356 said:


> I think *kmuda* is right about getting the controller, but they're $75. I've been looking at them and mulling this over for a while now. Not always practical depending on number of tanks, but then again, we'd spend that for a filter and not think twice. Why am I so cheap when it comes to heaters that can wipe out expensive fish? I need five of those controllers for my big tanks. I don't even want to do the math. Too late to ask Santa.


If you don't mind doing a little wiring on your on, you can save about 20 bucks per unit using these:

http://www.rancoetc.com/ranco-etc111000 ... -p-86.html


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## frschul (Mar 10, 2004)

Maybe this might help ?

Try this link from Jehmco ... unless I am reading this wrong. I think they have a controller for multiple heaters..... ?????? but is that multiple heaters for one tank .. without additional probes ?

Prov356 posted about Jehmco

http://www.jehmco.com/html/temperature_controller.html

but you can always ask Jehmco for you specific needs as they some time make
modifications to some products and they may possibly have a economic solution to
this problem.... If you check and they do give you a solution to this problem
please post the results of your inquiry.....


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## jaly100 (Dec 20, 2009)

I have the hydor external heater... It attaches to the outlet hose of your canister filter... its great.. id highly recommend


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## mg426 (Nov 24, 2009)

I have a Ranco dual stage temp. controller on my system. It is set to turn the heat stage on at 78 degrees and the cooling fans at 80 degrres. Its works awesome.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

well i was going to say chiller.... trust me on this if you think a heater is a problem well chillers are a whole lot worse...and they cost loads more to run as well.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

*heater so it has the ability to raise the tank temp no higher than something in the upper 80's if it sticks on*

:thumb: 
Pretty much fail safe answer.
Good circulation, coupled with a minimun wattage heater would seem the most resonable protection.


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## sirdavidofdiscus (Dec 8, 2006)

I always run 2 heaters that are both slightly underpowered for my tank. That way if 1 fails it can't cook the tank. Conversly if it stops working altogether there is still some heat provided by the other one.


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## mentallylost (Apr 9, 2005)

A story on the opposite side of this story...

Once upon a time, a few years ago I came home to find that one of my tanks heaters had malfunctioned. It had sent the temp up to somewhere in the upper 90's. I was freaking out, and had no idea what to do to fix it. I unplugged the malfunctioning heater, and quickly began to dump ice trays into the tank along with some cold water. Nothing I was doing helped bring the temps down. After a few minutes I remember sticking my arm into the tank for some reason. It was so cold, but the temp still read in the 90's. This didn't make much sense to me. Then I had an idea. I removed the el' cheapo glass thermometer from one of my other tanks, and stuck it the malfunctioning one. The tank was now in the mid 60's. I was freezing my fish. Come to find out, it wasn't the heater that had malfunctioned. It was the thermometer that had gone haywire, while the heater was fine.

Moral of the story... Everything fails. I am now down to one tank. It's a 125 gallon with a single Rena 400 watt heater. If it fails... my fish won't cook.


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## Geddonight (Aug 7, 2009)

Has anyone had experience with the Fluval E series heaters? They're supposed to be micro-processor controlled, rather than bi-metallic. Theoretically they shouldn't wear out from mechanical on/off...


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## SupeDM (Jan 26, 2009)

This is one of the particular reasons that I stick with the Stealth heaters. It has been my experience that these heaters are fairly reliable and also the lifetime guarranty means buy it once replace it forever. I usually run 2 heaters that are bolth undersized for the tank. I set one to the desired temp and set the other one at least 5 degrees lower. If the one fails it cant cook the fish and if it sticks off then the other one stops them from freezing.


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## frschul (Mar 10, 2004)

SupeDM said:


> This is one of the particular reasons that I stick with the Stealth heaters. It has been my experience that these heaters are fairly reliable and also the lifetime guarranty means buy it once replace it forever. I usually run 2 heaters that are bolth undersized for the tank. I set one to the desired temp and set the other one at least 5 degrees lower. If the one fails it cant cook the fish and if it sticks off then the other one stops them from freezing.


I have had a stealt that has failed.... but the approach that I am hearing is to used two undersized heaters. I guess this approach would not be that expensive vs controllers for each heater. Something to consider ??????? where multiple tanks are concerned...


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## Geddonight (Aug 7, 2009)

frschul said:


> where multiple tanks are concerned...


Perhaps this is a false assumption that will bite me later, but water flowing through multiple tanks helps (in my reasoning) to abate any risk of overheating due to a heater being stuck on. If a tank heater fails (lets say in one of my 75s) then the influx of water will help keep the tank from cooking. The turnover rate isn't too high (2-3 times per hour), so I would notice a rise in temperature to some extent, I imagine.

I hope that's how it works...


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> but the approach that I am hearing is to used two undersized heaters.


That's an approach used by some, but what exactly do you mean by 'undersized'? If it's 'undersized', it won't bring the tank up to proper temp. If it will bring the tank to temp, but not enough wattage to take it to dangerous levels, then it's properly sized, not undersized. And there's no real need for this approach unless you live in a very cold house. Fish will be fine at pretty much any temp in the 70's. It's the high temps that are lethal. No harm in it, but be very certain that the heater you've chose truly cannot take the temp up to lethal levels. Otherwise, you've just doubled the chances of bad things happening. And room temp will make a difference. A heater that won't take a tank up over 88 in the winter when the room is 72, may very well take it well over 90 when the room temp pushes 80 or more.

Some try to use two in tandem. They can work erratically. You'll never get them set exactly the same. They're not designed to work this way. There's a pretty good explanation of this on Jehmco's site. Scroll down to the 'Notes' section at the bottom of the page.

Bottom line, if you use two heaters, best to use them in tandem and put them on a single controller.

Just my .02 on the 'two heater approach'


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## frschul (Mar 10, 2004)

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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Geddonight said:


> Has anyone had experience with the Fluval E series heaters? They're supposed to be micro-processor controlled, rather than bi-metallic. Theoretically they shouldn't wear out from mechanical on/off...


HMMMMMM???
I have never seen "virtual" contacts directly control high voltage.
Always had to go through a relay, where the low voltage would "switch" the high voltage through a coil operated, mechanical contact set.
Essentially a controller system.
Could be wrong, as I have been away from PLC systems for awhile.


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

This has been a discussion I've seen here many times.

It was stated that the heater is the weakest link in the aquarium setup. That arguably may be the case. It could be that the technology has reached its zenith, or the next greatest thing is a decade away. However the heater is also the probably the cheapest component. People go out and spend HUGE amounts of money on different types of lighting, substrate, rocks, filters (G6 anyone?), UV sterilizers, just to name a few.

I saw someone else in here mention the Hydor In-Line Heater... I got one as well.. But I also got a Hydor Thermostat Controller.. $50 CAD. Probably closer to $38-40 in US. They have one that's digital and can control to half a degree. That ones closer to $100..

IMO, I think its worth shelling out at least the $50 for the extra protection. At least until the next greatest thing comes out... :wink:


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

In five years I have not had a heater malfunction and I average 4 tanks running at any particular time.
Heaters could be the weakest link but filters might not be far behind. Many people have lost fish when the filter quit for a day while the owners were out of town.


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## TangSteve (Sep 20, 2009)

Couple of things.

Running two heaters is actually just increasing the odds of a heater failing and cooking your fish. Having an underpowered heater causes it to have to come on more often and run longer which is believed to burn out the curcuits in the heaters faster. I always use one heater of the appropriate wattage in my home tanks.

In commercial systems I run we use 3x 1000w heaters controlled electronically. I have not had a heater cook a system in 14 years except by human error when someone changes the set points on the controller or turns the heaters to manual and the built in thermostats are bad. Some of these heaters have been in use 10+ years too.


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

TangSteve said:


> Couple of things.
> 
> Running two heaters is actually just increasing the odds of a heater failing and cooking your fish. Having an underpowered heater causes it to have to come on more often and run longer which is believed to burn out the curcuits in the heaters faster. I always use one heater of the appropriate wattage in my home tanks.
> 
> In commercial systems I run we use 3x 1000w heaters controlled electronically. I have not had a heater cook a system in 14 years except by human error when someone changes the set points on the controller or turns the heaters to manual and the built in thermostats are bad. Some of these heaters have been in use 10+ years too.


Very good thought. I never considered that about the odds but it seems to be logical. If heater A has a 1 in 100 chance of being faulty and if B has a 1 in 100 chance of being faulty there would be a 2 in 100 chance that either or both are defective.


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## yogurtpooh (Jul 28, 2005)

stealth heaters have been very reliable for me and i recently bought a rena smart heater that also doubles as an intake for my xp3 and it is great.


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## smitty (May 7, 2004)

Kmunda, I can tell you from my experience that external controllers present the same problems. I had one controller that would not cycle back on and my tank which is in the basement went down to 58 degrees. My other controller did the opposite and pretty much had the water boiling.


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