# Sponge filters on large tanks



## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Hello,

Has anybody filtered 125g tanks for a significant amount of time on sponge filters alone? I don't doubt that the sponge filters would handle the biological filtration, but I am wondering how long it would take before detritus build up would become a pain. Vacuuming would be fine on one tank, but what about multiples?

Graduating this semester, starting to hash out the fish room details.

Aaron


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## Mschn99 (Dec 24, 2012)

ahud said:


> I don't doubt that the sponge filters would handle the biological filtration, but I am wondering how long it would take before detritus build up would become a pain.


Actually its the opposite, the sponges are GREAT at handling bio filtration. Untill i get my second canister for my 220, i will run my FX5 and 2 "60 gallon" rated sponges on power heads that i have already cycled. *** never run a larger tank on sponges alone though, but i cant imagine it would not work. I run all my grow out tanks on them (including a 6' long 80 gallon that is divided) and they run just fine.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks for the reply.

I am a sponge filter fan, no doubt. I just wonder how much maintenance it would be to run 4-5 six foot tanks on them.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

ahud said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I am a sponge filter fan, no doubt. I just wonder how much maintenance it would be to run 4-5 six foot tanks on them.


It is proportional, right?

I run them on 75's and can say that I don't spend anymore time cleaning that tank than I do my 180 display tank that is running on a sump with a pair of 200 micron filter socks.

The only negative I see in sponges is that they are unsightly.

I know someone that runs a 8' 220 on nothing but sponges and it is spotless, FWIW.


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## littleolme (Nov 1, 2011)

One of the LFS in Toronto runs his entire store off of sponge filters and has for years. You would obviously have to keep on top of vacuuming your substrate.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Yeah, the vacuuming is what turns me off. I don't have a problem with only sponge filters on 4 foot tanks, but a 72x18 footprint is a lot to vacuum. I'm looking into sumps or just running the sponge filters off power heads. I guess a lot depends on the number of additional tanks I add.

the concern for sumps is that I would need to run two or three since I keep different fish with different water requirements. Add on three more pumps, sumps, ect and the cost goes up.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...9-The-Woefully-Underappreciated-Sponge-Filter

Go to post #9. a 125 was filtered entirely on sponge filters.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Yeah, I have no doubts about them, I bet they can filter a 300-400 gallon tank no problem. My only concern is ease of maintenance. I can see detritus in the 125g lol. I would not want to have to vacuum 5 of them bad boys. I will keep thinking, maybe I can come up with a creative solution.

I was hoping some guys with fishrooms would chime in, but it seems like large tanks are not common in dedicated fish rooms.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

ahud said:


> Yeah, I have no doubts about them, I bet they can filter a 300-400 gallon tank no problem. My only concern is ease of maintenance. I can see detritus in the 125g lol. I would not want to have to vacuum 5 of them bad boys. I will keep thinking, maybe I can come up with a creative solution.
> 
> I was hoping some guys with fishrooms would chime in, but it seems like large tanks are not common in dedicated fish rooms.


I like your idea about mounting power heads on them. That would certainly help as long as you didn't mind rinsing them out every week or so.

Centralized sumps on multiple tanks gets too complicated on the plumbing and too expensive in my estimation. That is why I went with central air.

That being said and agreeing with the point you made, 75 gallons is the largest in my room and most are 40 breeders or smaller.


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## badspellar (Oct 14, 2009)

I believe many fish rooms are run on air and sponge filters for the low cost. They then go bare bottoms, except on a limited number of show tanks. Bare bottoms are quick to vacuum. On the other hand, substrate can enhance fish behavior, like sand and multies. So its a trade off.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

cantrell00 said:


> I like your idea about mounting power heads on them. That would certainly help as long as you didn't mind rinsing them out every week or so.
> 
> Centralized sumps on multiple tanks gets too complicated on the plumbing and too expensive in my estimation. That is why I went with central air.
> 
> That being said and agreeing with the point you made, 75 gallons is the largest in my room and most are 40 breeders or smaller.


I agree, the cost and complications of central sumps are a major concern. Not to mention it may inefficient in my situation since I like soft water South Americans and West Africans, along with hard water Tang and Centrals. I hate rinsing sponges more than I hate water changes lol, I always end up with all of the junk the sponge filter collected back in the tank. I have ran sponge filters on powerheads before, they collect a lot more detritus, but like you said, I will have to tend to them more often.

I am a big tank guy, I like seeing multiple species interact. With that in mind, my room is going to be laid out something like this:
4x- 125g
4x- 75g
6x- 20 Long

I will for sure do a small central air system for the 75gs and 20 longs, but coming up with a low maintenance way to filter the 125gs is still escaping me. I could run two tanks off of one sump, it would limit my flexibility, but running two return pumps should not be super costly.

Feel free to offer any insight cantrell, I am sure you learned a thing or two when building your room.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

So the 4- 125's will be display tanks? Heating the room or the tanks individually? Will the sumps provide the hiding of the gear?

If they are displays and heating the room (125's are much less susceptible to sudden temp changes) and not concerned with hiding gear, what about canisters?

Should be cheaper and more efficient than a sump AND I would argue that they do a better job with keeping floating debris under control because they function like a vacuum.

If these 125's need overflows, drilled, etc... , I would lean towards canisters. Some of the cheap imports have gotten decent reviews and are cheap!

What about lighting?


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

May want to send prov356 a PM too. He did exactly what you are doing with these 125's too BTW.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

cantrell00 said:


> So the 4- 125's will be display tanks? Heating the room or the tanks individually? Will the sumps provide the hiding of the gear?
> 
> If they are displays and heating the room (125's are much less susceptible to sudden temp changes) and not concerned with hiding gear, what about canisters?
> 
> ...


The room is going to be an add-on to the garage or a separate building. I'm too nervous about having that much humidity under my home. I plan on insulating the room and heat the tanks with central heating. Cement flooring and floor drains are a must.

Tanks will be in a dedicated fishroom, but I tend to make them display tanks. Similar to Ted Judys tanks. The sponge filters won't bother my viewing. But since I add substrate, driftwood, ect, vacuuming won't be as easy as a bare bottom fish room tank.

I'm drilling all tanks, so I can have a worry free water change system. I know those DIY overflows have had a great track record, but since I am starting from scratch I am just going to drill. Probably an equal amount of work after its all said and done. Have not decided if I am going fully automatic or some sort of manual system where I turn a few valves. A lot depends on the job, I have an option to make some great money right out of college, but 60 hrs a week and I would work weekends. If that's the case I would opt for the automatic route.

Lighting is a subject I have not got into yet. All the tanks will have lights over them, but I need to find a solution that uses the least amount of electricity as possible. I may skip lighting some of the 20 longs, as some of those are for fry.

Speaking of fry, I have to admit I am the type that buys adult fish most of the time. So I have not raised many, are the 20 longs going to be sufficient to raise and grow out fry? I do not keep large fish, Thorichthys, Cryptoheros, and the smaller Geophagus are the largest fish I keep. So anything over 6-7" I usually won't keep.

Prov356 is the fishroom that I am trying to copy in a way. If I go the sump route I will most likely copy the system. The only thing that would change is the craftsmanship, not sure I am capable of what he accomplished.

As with any fish room, I'm aiming for efficiency, flexibility (Since my interest are diverse), and keeping electricity cost down. I think the hardest thing is trying to decide with how many tanks to go with. I don't want the fishroom to be a part time job, but I also want to be able to keep several species and grow out fry.

Bless you if you take the time to read all of that rambling and answer lol.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

We have a LFS in Pittsburgh that is run completely off of sponge filters as well.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

I think you'll find the answer in this video (during a w/c).

Click on the pic.


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

Ran my 125 with large haps and peacocks for 8 days on 1 battery operated sponge filter (cycled) after Hurricane Sandy. No loses.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

ahud said:


> cantrell00 said:
> 
> 
> > So the 4- 125's will be display tanks? Heating the room or the tanks individually? Will the sumps provide the hiding of the gear?
> ...


Quick summary... 20 Long is adequate if you are not overly concerned with growth rates. Rule of thumb: The more water, the faster they grow.

For maximum energy efficiency and minimal upfront cost on lighting, go with compact CFL's. 3 - 1300 Lumen (24W), 6500K per 6' tank, 2 per 4' tank, 1 per 3' and less. Sold by Sylvania @ Lowe's. $5-6 each.

To automate water changes, sumps GREATLY help. Basically - fill the sump with water & drain from the tank. Sump level drops down, add more water. Repeat.

I assume you are stacking the 125's 2 high? If you are, 1 sump per 2 tanks & one return to both. I did this with 3 - 33L's that were stacked. Had a drain on the far end of each, all draining to a common sump - directly over drip tray. Had one pump returning the water & used a ball valve directly at the return to each tank to equalize flow. Obnviously, the tank that is lowest and closest to the pump will receive the most flow because of lesser head pressure at the first tank.

I would build the sumps out of craigslist 55's. You could do it as simply as a sheet of egg crate down the length of the tank. Bio ball's on top of that, another piece of egg crate above that, filter floss, and spray bars (series of holes along the length) from each drain to spread out the water over the bio media. You would not necessarily need a drip tray per say. Extrenal pump would return the filtered water to the tank via a bulkhead on the opposite end of the 125's drains.

You are always welcome to drop by my place if ever in the low country. I can show you tons of thing you SHOULD NOT do.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Cantrell,

Hmm, I may have to throw in a pair of 55g somewhere to accommodate fry. The only fry I intend to raise are when I want more of a certain species to work with, such as Thorichthys groups, shell dwellers, ect. So constant growth is a concern since they are most likely going to end up staying in my tanks! Like I said, I just have no experience raising anymore than 5-10 fry at a time. I want to be careful though, I'm the type of person that gets turned off easily. So if I over do it and start out with too big of a room, my motivation will take a hit.

Nice on the lights, I will for sure check those out. Sounds exactly what I need. And most likely they will be plenty to grow some easy plants in the 20 longs.

The thing I can't wrap my head around is how to do an automatic water change system (Water drips into the tanks and the excess flows out the overflow that is plumbed to a drain) on tanks with a sump? I guess I can make an exception and do them manually by turning a few valves. Big tanks are easier to drain and fill than small ones imo.

Good idea on the sump, I will probably try a combination of the DIY drip (egg crate +bioballs) you speak of and add a 2" block of poret foam. I have been reading up on poret foam and may end up filtering the 75gs with the Hamburg Matten Filters.

Thanks for the offer. I travel to Charleston about once a year, so I may take you up on it.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Noddy,

Now I'm not bashing you by any means, the fish sure don't care about a little waste on the bottom. But I do see just enough waste that my OCD would kick in and I would have to vacuum. My setups will have a lot more aquascaping to establish territories so vacuuming will cause more of a hassle. At this point I am about set on sumps for the big tanks. I am trying to do the room cheaply, but cost is not that main concern. I want the room to be a pleasure to maintain, I don't see that happening with 4 six foot tanks to vacuum along with the 75 gallon tanks.

Thanks for posting the video. Great looking fish!


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

As for the drip, no biggie. Just drip into the top tank and have a overflow on your sump attached to the drain. It would only need to be a small hole though. If looking at 50% weekly change on 200 gal, it would be a very slow drip. Obviously.

You would have to have a flow/pressure regulator if using a city supply more than likely.

Make sure you have all of these tanks covered though. Evaporation could outpace your drip if you didn't. Easily.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Speaking of that. How is humidity in your room? I don't think the fish keepers out west believe how bad we have it down in the south. I know my apartment gets humid enough that a dehumidifier runs almost all the time. Thats with 5 tanks, all with glass tops.

Good idea on the sump overflow, I did not think of that.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Waited to long to edit, basically I'm trying to for see any hummidity problems. I want to address that problem while I am working with a blank slate.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Well... My room is in a detached garage so I just buttoned down everything really tight. I hung that aluminized bubble wrap all over the ceilings and walls. It is almost impossible for water to penetrate through it. Floor is concrete.

It won't be a problem for most of the year assuming you will have to be running a AC. AC pulls most of the humidity (heat) out. During the cooler months you may need a dehumidifier. They can pull some amps though.

A ceiling vent fed via a humidstat may be an option to consider. Problem is a vent also relieves the room of hot or cool air as well.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Humidity is my biggest worry. Windows sweating cause mold on the sills, and who wants to spend time in a muggy room.

I'll look into the ceiling vent. The dehumidifier is a double edged sword, they pull amps and add heat. I do not want to depend on one a lot.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

ahud said:


> Noddy,
> 
> Now I'm not bashing you by any means, the fish sure don't care about a little waste on the bottom. But I do see just enough waste that my OCD would kick in and I would have to vacuum. My setups will have a lot more aquascaping to establish territories so vacuuming will cause more of a hassle. At this point I am about set on sumps for the big tanks. I am trying to do the room cheaply, but cost is not that main concern. I want the room to be a pleasure to maintain, I don't see that happening with 4 six foot tanks to vacuum along with the 75 gallon tanks.
> 
> Thanks for posting the video. Great looking fish!


Haha, yep, that's why I posted the video bud. You would have to vaccum the tanks everyday. I no longer run that tank but I do still have sponges in my tanks along with canisters.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks for the input!

I am starting to wonder if the 75g tanks are going to be a pain as well. No wonder fish keepers don't keep large tanks in their fish rooms!

I'm glad I have plenty of time to read and plan.


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## Mschn99 (Dec 24, 2012)

to do it cheap (overall...looking more at energy costs) get a high end air pump. It will run any tank size you need based on the number of sponges you have. It is also the best bang for your buck electricity wise. Look into your electricity cost. Here in california, heating a room with natural gas is cheaper than heating a tank with electricity. Obviously im not heating my house to 78*....but my fishroom will be heated to at least 76*.

As far as tank size, it all depends on the species and the number of fish, but 55 gallon tanks work great for most species for both large growout tanks and for breeding tanks if its not a huge breeding group. 29 gallon tanks also work well for starter grow out tanks if you need more tanks.


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## AlphaWild (Apr 9, 2009)

This article may be of interest; http://casb.okstate.edu/casb/fishchum/i ... iderations


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks.

HMF are very neat. I know Ted Judy uses them and he is highly successful. I will most likely try a few of them.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Poret is way overpriced. Never have understood why there is only one guy selling the stuff.

Probably a big reason why it is so expensive. I would love to have some to use as a tank divider but not at that price.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Yeah, its an expensive media. But I have not heard many complaints about it. If I was running small tanks, I would not worry about it. But for a sump, I think its a nice material. I like the HMF on larger tanks too, because you can stir the tank and the junk gets pulled towards the HMF.

I think I have a solution for the 4 foot tanks. I use a lot of driftwood and some leaves. I like to do a big clean every 6 months or so because so much driftwood/leaf particles collect on the bottom. But I have been thinking, I have a few extra canisters. So I actually could just throw on a canister to collect all of that every so often. Not a lot of work, and it should pull all of it out easily. So I will probably air filter(HMF or sponge) all the tanks except the 125gs.

Have any of you considered insulating the back, bottom, and sides of the tanks? I see some of the discus people do it, would it benefit our tropical temperatures?


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

If using it as THE filter, it is fairly economical. On a 6' tank though, will it be that effective on gathering debris? I guess the effectiveness will be proportional to the size of the pump that is powering it.

Can't comment on insulating the tank. Never attempted it.


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