# Cloudy water in a 2 month old tank



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

Hi everyone, I have an issue with cloudy water in my 125 that I set up 51 days ago. This has gone so well for me so far and now I have this to try and get control of. This tank was started by moving most everything from my 60 gal and I have not had any problems up until now. I started out testing my water daily and doing weekly 30% water changes. I am still keeping the water changes the same, I have however quit testing the water like a mad man. I test the water every 4 days now.

This tank is filtered with 2 Rena XP3s with pre filter sponges and I have a power head with a pre filter sponge as well. I last changed 30% of the water 3 days ago and at that time I decided to rinse the pre-filters. In doing so, I made a mess with the 1st sponge, and stuff went everywhere in the tank. I used a baggie for the other two sponges and did not have the mess with those. I then used my battery operated vac to clean the sand of any poo and whatever else was there. I continued on with my water change adding Prime and the next day the water seemed a little cloudy. It has since gotten more and more cloudy. I have not done any extensive vaccuuming of the sand as the tank is so newly set up.

I thought maybe I should open up the Rena XP3s and change out the super micro filtration pads, but the flow has not deminished in the filters output. I am thinking I should do a heavier vaccuum of the substrate even though it looks clean. Or maybe some additional water changes? The water test good, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 12.5. I hate to see the tank like this and I don't want to do anything to make matters worse. Any thoughts or suggestions would be very much appreciated. Thank you


----------



## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

When you vac sand it will kick up debris (small particles of sand) and make your water cloudy not usually for what you said days. Also when you rinsed your filters I'm hoping you didn't use tap water but water from your tank. If you did use tap water chances are that they chlorine in the tap water just killed your bio-filter bacteria. Seeing that your water parameters indicate that your tank is cycled this is kind of puzzling. Is the cloudiness in the water have a green hue to it? If so this could be a algae bloom. Is your tank close to direct sunlight or exposed to sunlight for an extended period of time? Also one thing that just came to my mind is that you said that you have it set up for 51 days correct? This would def be enough time to have it fully cycled yet about two three weeks after my tank became cycled I had a huge bacteria bloom (Beneficial Bacteria) and it seemed no matter how many WCs I did or water clarifier I added it wouldn't go away. So I asked one of my breeder friends and they said that this is natural. It is caused when you have an ammonia spike in the last phase of your cycle and your bacteria multiplies like crazy once the tank cycles and eliminates ammonia the bacteria is still in hyper drive and keeps multiplying causing the bloom (cloudy water). Now that there is more bacteria than ammonia the bacteria will start to die off till there is a happy medium of bacteria for the ammonia that is produced in your tank and this is the point that you tank will clear up again. Hope this helps good luck


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

AfricanCichlidSweetPea, Thanks for the reply. I did not rinse anything in the filters, just their prefilter sponges. I have well water and I did use the tap, not an issue there, I add Prime with my WC just in case. The water is cloudy white, no green at all. I have my tanks in the basement, they are not exposed to any direct sunlight but the room is light enough during the day that I do not turn the tank lights on. The fish seem more relaxed with just the natural light of the room, I have always done this with my tanks for years. I turn the lights on in the evening and they stay on for a few hours. I have several plants in this tank as well, java fern x5, anubias x5 and they are doing well, they are growing.

The tank is 52 days old today, I have a "log book" I record everything in and I keep extensive notes. This tank was set up by transfering all of my lace rock, some fake plants (for bio, and now gone back to the old tank) I added old gravel to the new tank filters to jump start them. I seeded the 2nd Rena XP3 in the old tank for 4 weeks. I originally had a Magnum 350 that I had moved to the 125 when I set it up with 1 Rena XP3. The magnums can is filled with Biomax and Floss. After 4 weeks, the Magnum went back to the old tank, the second Rena XP3 that I had seeding was then moved to the 125. I now have the two Rena XP3 on the 125.

This 125 has never had any ammonia, the set up went like a big water change. I added my fish on day 1. There still is no ammonia, no nitrite and nitrate is 12.5 I have added fish along the way and not had any problems. I too think this may be a bacteria bloom, just not sure what to do about it. More water changes or will this just make it worse? Open the Rena's and change out their fine polishing pads, I hate to open them if it is not necessary. I also do not think I should be too aggressive with a sand vac? Any other suggestions? Thank you guys


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

As I understand the heterotrophic bacteria population may be the issue here and the addition of carbon to my filters may remove the excess dissolved organics? Again, I hate to open up my cannisters so I have added an old, small HOB with carbon and floss. I am at a loss as to what else to do even though I FEEL I should be doing more water changes, I am afraid that may make it worse? Anyone have any other ideas? Thanks guys


----------



## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

I don't think that the WC will help here esp if it is in fact a bac bloom. This never helped me and like I had mentioned before it in fact it is the bac bloom once there is an equalibrium established of the population of bacteria to ammonia being produced in the tank your water will clear up again. This happens b/c all the bacteria that is now cloudy in your water is more populated than the amount of ammonia being produced so the excess bac will die off leaving you will crystal clear water! Good luck just give it a few more days I would say if it doesn't clear up in 5 days to a week there is something else going on there!


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

I have to say there have been a few time where the cloudy water has happened before due to a male red top zebra looking for bottom of the tank and spitting sand everywhere. That has always cleared up in a few hours. This is not the same and my mess with the prefilter sponge may be the reason. I have just let it run today and I did not do a water change or a substrate vac. It is a little clearer. I may just have to wait it out. The question for me is: if it is a bacteria bloom, why do I not have any ammonia? Anyone have anything to add? Thanks


----------



## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

Just to correct a misconception, cloudy water is in no way related to nitrifying bacteria. Autotrophic nitrifying bacteria simply populate too slowly to result in cloudy water.

Cloudy water resulting from a bacterial bloom is the result of heterotrophic bacteria and is expected on new tanks. If this is the cause, resolution is increased aeration, increased water changes....and yes, the use of carbon. Anything that reduces the amount of dissolved organics in the water colum will improve the cloudiness of the water. With sufficient carbon of an acceptable quality, under appropriate flow rates, in combination with increased water changes, and you should be able to knock the problem out in a few days.


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

Kmuda, thanks for your reply. The question of doing a water change had me a little stumped. I felt that I should, just did not want to add to my problem. Do you recomend doing 30% daily or more? The HOB that I added with carbon is not very big, it is an old whisper that only holds one cartridge and I split the cartridge and added a lot of API carbon. This HOB also helps with circulation as it sits high on this tank. The two XP3's have spray bars, there is a power head in the center back top of the tank and a korilla on one side at the top. Circulation is good.

The tank has cleared some, not crystal by any means. At least it is not continuing to cloud more. Im I correct in not opening my canisters and replacing the fine pads? The flow on the XP3's is still strong. Would a aggressive sand vac help?

Again Kmuda, Thank you


----------



## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

In the HOB... I would pull the cartridge altogether, fill a media bag with carbon, and drop it in. If you don't have a media bag, a pair of pantyhose cut and tied will serve the purpose nicely.

I am a fan of huge water changes.... but I don't keep africans so I dont have the extra hassle of attempting to adjust water chemistry. By "huge", I mean 70%+. Provided you are just using unaltered tap water, I would recommend the same. One 70% water change equals about 4 30% water changes.

But if you are altering your water, then stick to the lower end water changes.

The water changes will not harm your beneficial bacteria, provided you properly dechlorinate the water. If you use a python, turn off your filters while the refill occurs and use a bit more dechlorinator than is called for.

What the water changes will do is reduce the levels of dissolved organics. Without the dissolved organics, the explosion of heterotrophic bacteria will cease as their food source is decreased.

51 days into a cycle, it's a toss-up as to if you should change your fine filter pads. Personally, I would change them, but you might want to wait a few days after the water changes to do so.


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

Kmuda, Thanks I have taken out the cartridge and filled a media bag with carbon. I don't have any issues with water chemistry, just fill with an RV grade hose attached to a bathroom sink with a waterbed attachment, works like a charm, adjust the temp before it goes into the tank. I use it to drain and fill. I add Prime just in case but I have well water and I don't add anything. My water ph is 8.0 out of the tap and stays at about 7.5 or a little higher in the tanks.

70% seems like a lot but not a problem and if that is what its going to take to clear this up then I better get busy. I think I will wait on changing the filter pads until after the water change. I still feel as if I caused this when I removed 1 of the prefilters, what a mess. I won't do that again, pretty stupid on my part.

Thanks for your advice, you have been a huge help.


----------



## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

That "old water is good" myth just will not die. :lol:

Don't worry about the large water changes. I don't even break out the hoses unless I am changing 70% of the water.... and I break out the hoses on all tanks at least weekly. Old water has nothing but death in it.

The key to long term success in an aquarium is clean water.... and it's not a clean you can see. "Clean" means low in pollution. The clearest water can be a toxic soup and cloudy water can be perfect. Not that this has anything to do with your situation, just mentioned for those who think they have "clean water" because it's clear. "Old water is laden with toxins", fresh water is not (unless you have a seriously bad tap water issue).

But back to the topic, the only reason you would want to limit the size of your water change would be if there is a difference in chemistry between tap and tank. If you don't have that problem, there is no problem. I regularly perform back to back 80% changes and I have a fish that has been enduring this for over 20 years. :wink:

In your case, the increased water changes are going to reduce the level of dissolved organics, which will reduce the quantity of heterotrophic bacteria, which are likely causing your cloudiness.


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

Thanks for the followup Kmuda. I am still refilling after 70%, I have maybe another 1/2 hour to go. My fish thought I was nuts and my plants were falling all over themselves. I hope this clears up, can't imagine why it would not. I had to laugh at your comments about "the old water is good" myth as so many people up grade tanks and use old water.

Do you do such large water changes each week or byweekly? Changing my water is easy so maybe I should change more than 30%? That is just the amount I have used for years. This 125 is the first new tank I have set up in 9 years and I have never done it this way, always set it up new and went through the normal cycle period, and waited. This was very easy and until now, I've not had any problems. This is my first time with sand so I thought that could be part of the issue as I have some diggers and spitters.

Almost full, I will post a followup in the morning. Thanks so much for your help!


----------



## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

If the sand was improperly rinsed, that can cause a long term cloudiness. The large water change combined with carbon should be the indicator. If the problem does not clear up with the next few days, then the issue may not be a bacterial bloom.

In all reality, water changes don't necessary fall on a schedule. You perform however many water changes in as much quantity as necessary to keep nitrates below 20ppm. Some tanks 30% weekly may suffice. Others may require this biweekly. While others may require 70% twice a week. But the "guide" should be nitrates. When they start to approach 20ppm, you perform a water change. Over time, in most properly stocked tanks, you can arrive at a schedule of changing "this percentage of water" on "this day" to achieve the desired result.

Personally, I would like nitrates to be zero. As a result I reset nitrates to zero (or at least near zero) each week in my tanks, which involves those back to back 80% water changes. But this is above and beyond what is likely necessary. Again, the guide should be keeping nitrates below 20ppm nitrate.


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

Kmuda, I am pleased to say the tank is so much clearer this morning! It is not crystal but close. With the lights off it looks crystal, when I turn the lights on there is a slight haze. Two days ago I could watch it getting cloudy and it was not from spitting sand. I have one male zebra that has gone from #2 top fish in my old tank to #1 in this tank and for a while he would dig like crazy and spit sand everywhere. That would cause a slight haze for a few hours. He is not longer redecorating and that, thank God has improved. He was about to be evicted!

I am a little confused, having no ammonia in this tank ever, why did I have a bacterial bloom? Do you believe this was caused by my removal of the prefilter sponge and nasties collected for almost 2 months going into the tank? Overloading the system?

After doing the 70% water change instead of several 30% changes, should I continue changing water for a few days? You have no idea how wonderful it is to have someone with your knowledge and experience take the time to help with an issue like this. I have been all over this forum trying to help myself and it seems so many people want to dump chemicals and clarifiers into their tanks and they don't accomplish anything except a temporary fix. And they do NOT want to change that "old water".
Thanks again for all of your time and help.


----------



## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

For the most part, a bacterial bloom that causes cloudiness has nothing to do with ammonia and is no indication of a cycle or mini-cycle (there is a disclaimer here I will cover later).

Bacteria that consume ammonia are autotrophic bacteria, a designation for a type of bacteria that can manufacture their on food. In our case, they utilize nitrogenous waste and oxygen as electon receptors in this process (ammonia and nitrite are nitrogenous waste). Autotrophic bacteria can multiply every 12 hours. This means that under absolute optimum conditions, a single autotrophic bacteria can become 11 bacteria in a 24 hour window. In other words, they populate far to slowly to cause cloudy water. Nor are they ever found in the water column in any substantial quantities. So no matter how much ammonia is in the tank, autotrophic nitrifying bacteria will not cause "cloudy water".

Heterotrophic bacteria are the consumers of organics. Unlike autotrophic bacteria, they cannot manufacture their own food, they must seek out food and consume it. What they eat in our tank is any organic matter (such as fish poo, uneaten food, and dissolved organics (organics that are dissolved within the water column). The waste product from this process is ammonia. Unlike autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, the heterotorphs can multiple once every 20 minutes. This means, in a 24 hour time frame, a single heterotrophic bacteria can become 4,722,366,482,869,645,213,696 bacteria. In other words, provided sufficient organics exist, they can populate fast enough to result in a cloudy tank in a short order of time. Also unlike autotrophic bacteria, heterotrophic bacteria will exist in substantial quantities within the water column, provided the water contains sufficient dissolved organics.

SoÃ¢â‚¬Â¦ what does all of this techno-speak have to do with your issue?

Your tank is still in its early stages, recently cycled. Which means the bacteria colonies (both autotrophic and heterotrophic) have yet to become stable. These bacteria will exist in the locations where there is the greatest concentrations of the products they consume (in the case of heterotrophic bacteria, this is organics). In a tank with prefilters, this will be on the prefilters themselves, as this is where the fish poo, uneaten food, etcÃ¢â‚¬Â¦. will exist in the greatest concentration, and where the most water (containing dissolved organics) passes. In newer tanks, these bacteria have yet to fully spread through the substrate, filter media, etcÃ¢â‚¬Â¦. SoÃ¢â‚¬Â¦. If you remove those prefilters, you remove the bacteria, the organics build up in the tank, soon to be followed by an explosion of the heterotrophic bacteria to consume them. In a well established tank, colonies of these bacteria are spread around the tank, in the substrate, in the filter media, with less concentration. So you can remove a prefilter and not even notice it.

As for the disclaimer I alluded to earlier. If something happens to a tank that kills off bacteria, such as use of medications, removal of a filter, changing the substrate, forgetting to dechlorinate, etc..... a cloudy tank can be an indicator of a tank cycle, only because the same process that kills off the heterotrophic bacteria kills off the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, although it is the "rebound" of the heterotorphic bacteria that causes the cloudiness. In addition, a cloudy tank can CAUSE a tank cycle, in that heterotrophic bacteria are the largest consumers of oxygen in our tanks. If they overpopulate to an extent where they are consuming the available oxygen, limiting O2 supplies to the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria will cease oxidizing ammonia.

To close, I would continue performing water changes. They will do nothing but help.


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

Wow, that explains a lot. And that was my problem with trying to find the answers just reading threads on the forum, everything was pointing to my having ammonia and I have none. You must live and breathe this! Thanks for the explanation, I had to read it a couple of times for it to sink in.

I do think the pre filter was the problem and to think I really used them to keep the sand out of my filters. I understand that they had a lot of bacteria on them, I just didn't think rinsing them was a problem. I know better now.

It is 6:30pm here and I have checked the tank several times today. I hate to say it but it is getting cloudy again. Not as bad as it was but not as clear as it was this morning. I am going to do another water change in a bit.

Thanks again for the help.


----------



## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

I would expect the cloudiness to be an issue for anywhere from several days to a week. No worries. I know it's unsightly, but provided you have sufficient aeration, there is no harm to the fish.

Keep up the water changes. Things will eventually settle. If they don't, the problem is not bacterial. The next culprit to investigate would be insufficiently rinsed sand, which is a nightmare to deal with. If it gets to that, post back into this thread and I'll provide some suggestions.


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

Well i have completed a second 70% water change tonight, can't say it is much fun. I'm more the grab a beer, sit and watch the fish kinda person. Oh well, I am now watching and the fish are fine, they seem to enjoy the water changes. I will keep the water changes up until it works.

I have a hard time believing it is the sand after this long and when any fish spits or sifts the sand now it settles. I am sure removing the sand would be a big pain and I would hate to have to do that. This tank has a lot of rock and a huge lace rock pile on one side. It also has egg crate under the sand. I assume the best way to remove the sand would be to syphon it out. I washed this sand soooo many times, I believe it is good and it settled quickly after filling the tank with water. I will just try not to think about that issue right now.

I haven't had a chance to look at the article tonight, but I certainly will! Thanks again and I will keep posting the progress of this issue on this thread. I can't thank you enough!


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

This morning the water is still hazy, not really cloudy so maybe I am getting somewhere. I will do another big water change today. I have been looking at your articles, a lot. Very very informative and I have added it to my favs. It should be available to everyone! I must say after reading about "the dark side" and the explanation of the "white" slime on the glass, oh my God, I have that white and of course assumed it was related to the sand. I do not have the white on my other tank and it is an old tank. This tells me that the sand is not the issue, or maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part?

I still have not touched the pads in my xp3's and may let them go a little longer. The prefilter sponges are still in place. I hope as the day goes on today, the water will get clearer but it may not and I will keep changing out the old water. I have cut back on feedings and the lights are not on much anyway. I have some reading to get back to, I will post back with progress. Thanks again


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

Ok, now I have another question for you: if I have had this white slime on the tank glass, should I open up the 2 xp3's and rinse the media now? I have been cleaning this off of the galss but maybe the media is getting full? The flow on these filters has not deminished but that may not matter here.


----------



## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

The white slime is completetly normal. It's part of owning an aquarium. It occurs in some tanks more so than others, but it's a part of all tanks.

The "white slim" is a byproduct of the heterotrophic bacteria. It's controlled by wiping down the glass during water changes. As you are aware, I perform massive water changes and am likely more diligent (fanatical) than anyone about tank maintenance and filter cleanings..... and I get the slime build up on the glass.

In some tanks it's more noticable than others but it's in all tanks. How much you notice it depends on how light is hitting the glass and what angle you are viewing from.


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

Well, I thought I was on to something but if YOU get the white slime, I guess it must be normal. LOL. I have in the last week seen the brown agle or diatoms on rocks and I have wiped it off of the larger rocks. I do not believe this is a problem but maybe I am wrong?

I do not have much of an alge issue in my old tank, never really have, just a little on glass and fake plants. Easy enough to clean off. This new tank has not had any alge except this brown stuff, looks more like dirt, wipes off easily. I do have live plants in this tank.

This afternoon the water still has the haze to it so I am about to go do the water change again. At such a large volume of water each time I would think this would correct itself sooner rather than later. What would happen if I just let the tank run and did nothing with the water? After reading the article, I believe I know the answer...it will get worse, take over the autotrophs and could kill the fish?

I know most of the advice I have had from LFS & read on the forum may say to do partial water changes but some advise just to let it run and it will clear up. How do people not kill off their fish!? Or maybe they do. Your information would be so helpful to others, I keep going back and reading.


----------



## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

I don't think you have to worry about it reaching that stage. You have sufficient filtration. The cloudiness is just an eyesore, not a danger.

Cloudy water in an old tank is a symptom of a major issue that could cause some of the problems you referenced. Cloudy water is a new tank is expected, as is brown algae. Conditions in the tank will eventually balance out and the brown algae will be replaced by green algae and the cloudy water will just go away.

You can slow down with the very large water changes. Try scaling back to about 30% and see what happens.


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

I have done a third water change of 70% this evening and maybe that will be the last of the big ones. The water was better this evening than it was the previous evening so I could be getting there. Hopefully tomorrow it will be even better, I will change less water and see how it goes. I used the last of my Prime so off to the LFS in the morning. I really don't think I need to use the stuff, but it would be my luck to not use it and have a issue. I just don't like to be without it.

The fish are fine and have gotten to where the shallow water is not freaking them out. I even have a female yellow lab holding and she has had no problems either.

I actually expected this to happen when I set this tank up not 2 months into it. When everything went so well for weeks and then turned to ****, I was not sure what the problem was. I thought this would happen in the 2nd or 3rd week. Live and learn.

A question that I was concerned about today, it takes quite a while to drain and refill this much water and I turn everything off to do this. Is this bad for my xp3's and their media? It takes about 2 hours?


----------



## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

Wow.... I get 4 tanks done in two hours.  How are your draining and filling? Buckets or python? Is your tank near a window?

To answer your question, two hours should not have a big impact, but it does present some concerns. I would leave the filters running until you are about 1/2 drained, then shut them off. But let's see if we can speed up the process some. 

When you perform water changes like I do, you find a few ways to cut costs. One of those is in the selection of a conditioner. I keep Prime on hand, but rarely use it. My primary conditioner is API Tap Water Conditioner. It's a straight forward dechlorinator and heavy metal binder. Since you are on well water and you do not have ammonia or nitrite in your water, you have no need for Prime. All of the other "benefits" of the high priced conditioners are not really needed.

API Tap Water Conditioner is about the most concentrated product readily available. It's twice as concentrated as Prime. One drop treats a gallon of water. A capfull, 100 gallons.

All you need for regular use is a heavy metal binder and API Tap Water Conditioner does that as well as Prime.... and a bottle larger than Prime costs less than Prime.


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

I drain and fill with a 25ft RV hose attached to a waterbed adaptor hooked to a bathroom sink. It drains slowly, real slowly. I do not refill very fast just to avoid a sand storm and dunes, big dunes. I turn the filters off as the spray bars would spray water awfully high above the water level and the intakes are set high above the sand bed so I could only drain the tank at about 30% before the intakes are out of the water. I have to say it only takes 15 to 20 min to change 30%. The lower in the tank that I place the hose, the slower the flow. It makes since, so the 70% slows way down toward the end. That is why I didn't have much concern before with turning the filters off, it didn't take as long.

I did find an old "Super Pump" a non electric pump that we have had forever that is made to drain and fill waterbeds. It is supposed to cut the time in 1/2. I knew this was still around here somewhere. It really wasn't an issue to me until I started with the 70% changes. It maybe that it drains slow because the sink is at about the same height as the tank. I am going to try this pump tomorrow, if it isn't much help, I could drain the tank into the shower instead. Im pretty old school and did the bucket brigade for years, never again. Im 5ft tall myself and the bucket was bad enough but the step stool, well lets just say that didn't work the best.

I didn't realize API tap water conditioner was such a bargin, I've just used Prime and not checked other prices. Im going to look for it tomorrow, thanks!


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

Wow, I have "float in the air" water! It has taken a little over 2 weeks and several water changes along with the addition of carbon and a hob filter. This morning I was soooo pleased to find the tank looking crystal clear. I still believe that the cause was my removing a prefiter sponge that sent poo and bacteria into the tank.

Thank you so much Kmuda for all of your time and advice. Your information was such a help to me as it has been in the past for many others.


----------



## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

Here shortly you can remove the carbon. It's not really necessary for long term use (and you'll save additional money.... carbon only works for a week or two).

Yep... the API Tap Water Conditioner is the most cost effective readily available, unless you want to DIY your own by bulk purchasing sodium thiosulfate. But it's only good for folks who do not have chloramine in their water (and if you do not register ammonia from the tap, you don't have chloramine in your water).

I'm glad the tank cleared up. With proper maintenance, it will stay that way.


----------



## Pattysphish (Apr 9, 2010)

I have already removed the carbon at day 14, I didn't want any issues with that after 2 weeks. Instead of weekly 30% water changes, I am doing 40% or a little more every 5 days. I may go back to the weekly changes as the nitrates are lower than they have been since I set this tank up. I had nitrates of 12.5 always, they are closer to 10 now. The ammonia and nitrite are still 0.

The API water conditioner is great and all I need so I will hang on to my Prime. I have managed to speed the water change up in time and I am leaving the 2 XP3's on while doing so. It was such a pleasure to find the tank crystal clear this morning after days and days of ugly cloudy water. Thanks for the help!


----------

