# Hi and Calvus Breeding Q's



## Cooder (Jul 19, 2011)

Hey all,

Im Cody and have kept Tangs for about a year and a half now. (im 14 ) done more research than you could imagine, so i know my stuff, but am still learning the practical side of things. I love cichlids, wanna delve more deeply into the harder tangs, also wouldnt mind trying SA dwarfes, when i can spare a tank. Also am into photography. aaah, Got a 4', want to upgrade to a 6x2x2 when i can afford it, heck, maybe even an 8fter. soon should be getting some cyp lepto mpimbwe...

Anyway enough on me,

I have aquired some calvus a couple of months ago, and have been seeing some breeding action lately. i have young adults that have just come into breeding age. I have 1 Male and 3 females, all the females have spawned and No.2 is being clingy to the shell, shes been in hanging around it a while. No.3 female has spawned more recently.

The question is I never know if they actually have fry, and how long should i expect it to take from female and male getting together, to free swimmers? i dont know if i should take the shell and female out into a different tank, sooner or later or should i at all? will the fry just become little snacks for daddy? :-?

Need these Q's answered if i am going to be successful with calvus.

Thanks guys


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Here's the skinny. Brace yourself, I'm LONG winded... I type fast and I love talking fish:

Calvus are easy to keep, HARD to raise.

Almost my entire fish room is, in some way dedicated to Altolamps as they're, obviously my fav.

If you've got young fish here that have just begun spawning, I'd let them try and fail a few times before you tamper with the process. This, imo, gets them habituated to good rearing and proper shell guarding etc.

Again, imo, if you habituate them to early, if not random, shell/fry removal you may get females who shell guard way too long which results in weak, starved broods and male heavy broods. (Male heavy broods can be a pain because you raise these things for 2 years only to find out you're m/f ratio is way biased.) I have not discovered any way to create a female heavy brood.

Firstly, what kind of shells are you using? Any kind that the female will fit into is fine, of course but, imo, some are better for breeder purposes. e.g. A 5-6 inch Conch shell works best imo. This is because the avg. 2-3" female can fit way down into it. That's important because that's where the eggs will be laid, fanned etc. Since the eggs are deep in the shell, the fry won't wander out prematurely/accidentally, but instead they will come out when they're ready to eat
. More importantly the large shell gives you an opportunity to see the fry free swimming ahead of time.

In a 3" high shell for instance, you may see free swimming fry before work in the morning. Then when you come home from work they'll be out all over the tank (Impossible to roundup) or worse, in the bellies of their tankmates. The large conch gives you a head start because you can see deeper into the shell. So, you see free swimmers at the deepest visible "Doorway" and then you've probably got a day or two to get them out.

Most guys don't like conches because they're pointed bottom makes them dangerous (Shells occasionally tip or get tipped over suffocating the female inside). I lost three wild females from tipping before I remedied the problem. Just hack saw off the bottom tip of the conch to make it flat and silicone a small square of glass or whatever to the bottom. (The added advantage to glass is that you can peek in at the developing fry which is interesting.) I did this to the shells on the sand but for the ones in my rock work I I just sealed the saw hole with "Aquamend". No tipping since :thumb: Also, imo bigger shells seem to make the females more comfortable swimming a foot or so away for a bite to eat at feeding times.

Anyway, There is no sense attempting to move the fry unless you see fry "knocking on the door". They'll be a group of 3-10 of them looking like birds waiting to make their first flight. Good females will try to keep them in the shell either as long as she can or at least until it's dark.

I recommend moving the fry only. I feed the tank and when the female goes for food I quickly slip my arm in their and grab the shell, keeping water in it as I lift it out of the tank. Then, in a 20 gallon (Bigger the tank, the more Calvus will live through their infancy.) that I have filled with parent tank water (water parameters must be dead on, especially temp), I submerge the shell, invert it (Inversion makes it easy for fry to "find the light" as the hole at the bottom of a shell is bigger), and gently and consistently twirl the shell. You'll notice little fry darting out in droves.

Young Calvus broods will be small, if they successfully spawn at all, for their first 2-3 episodes. After that, the younger, most times smaller females will produce the biggest and most frequent broods (Don't know why, never cared I guess?).

So once you're satisfied with the number of fry you've "Spun" out of the shell (I always try to leave a few for the female when I return the shell to the parent tank, immediately after spinning the shell. This gives her an opportunity to finish what she started and, believe it or not, makes a mental impact on the parent couple. I don't know if it's an actual fish brain, emotion thing (Probably not), but Dominant males may tend to pound on females that have been tricked away from their shell unless you put the shell back in the same spot relatively soon after you removed it.

I have also observed that mothers eat less of their broods when they're left to finish. In short, imo, putting the shell back where you found it with a few fry in it remedies any neurosis by the parents.

YOU must keep the fry tank water perfectly clean. I mean squeeky! I don't use any substrate in calvus fry tanks cause they're prone to staying still when threatened and therefore are easy to suck up when vacuuming.

You've got to treat them like little babies. Feeding very little but very often. I use BBS (frozen is less messy imo) and NLS grow powder for the first 3 months.

Water changes X 20% every 3 days, every week if you don't care about losing most of the brood. I don't say that sarcastically, I've found it's easier on my mind if I only intend to raise 25 out of 100, per brood. It just requires so much attention to rear them in the beginning.

The first 3-4 months are really touch and go. Most people post saying,"Man, calvus fry aren't so hard, I've had all 80 newborns in my fry tank for 2 weeks, no fatalities! I don't know what all the fuss is about?"  Usually, the very next post is something like,"What happened? I came home from work and all but four of them are dead!?"

It's true, you'll think they're going to pull through in those first weeks because they seem like anyother easy fry to feed raise etc. Don't be fooled though, treat them like they're gravely ill and you will experience less loss I promise.

After 4 months they really are like any other fish except that they grow SLOW. Oh, I switch from BBS after 2 months and instead alternate the NLS powder and Frozen cyclops. Cyclops are a bit bigger and therefore less messy so as soon as I think the fry can eat them I switch to that regiment.

T make sure I answered your?'s 1.) I think i covered how/when to spot the fry, 2.) from eggs laid to ready to move (Free swimming+ a few days) is 18-21 days. I start looking for them after 16 days.3.) If you've only got one pair, and you have more, than it is a crapshoot as to wether or not the parents will eat them all. I have some pairs that are fry eaters and others, usually the geriatric pairs, which don't eat any of them and ignore them until they're adults! If you want to keep them, get them out. 4.) to remove or not to? I like to because I don't like the look of fry nets in show tanks (2 years is a long time to watch a giant net in your show tank!) and I've seen mixed/inconsistent results in terms of fry yield with that method.

Fry tanks are initially more risky but much more convenient in the long term. Some guys (I think "Razzo" does it this way?) use the breeding net for the first couple months and then switch them.

Keep in mind that the main thing the fry need to survive, other than obvious stuff like food etc. is CLEAN tank and personal space. If you have a bare floor in the tank, it's a good rule of thumb to expect to yield 5-10 surviving fry out of the brood per avg. 10 gallon footprint. That;s why when I want to keep most/all of the brood but I don't want to screw around with them 24/7 to keep them alive, I spin the shell in a bare 55 gallon, feed it accordingly, and treat normally otherwise.

I use cherry shrimp in the fry tanks too which keeps the fry moving. They stay still so long that they poison themselves in the tank settlings.

I could go, and have gone, ona and on.... Anymore ?'s just ask and I"ll write you a book about it  :roll: I always love talking fish, and especially Calvus.


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## des (Mar 30, 2011)

Very informative. Thanks for this post.


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## mobafrontlover (May 1, 2011)

Wow bio that was very informative. I think every one could learn something from that. You really know your stuff =D>


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## Cooder (Jul 19, 2011)

WOW,

Thanks so much for answering just about all my Q's!

Im not quite clear on the spinning of the shell. So basicly, wait until i see fry (about 18+) days for suresitting in the entrance to the shell waiting to get moving, feed momma and get the shell out, then put them in a CLEAN tank with mums tank water and spin the shell (slowly?) until the fry come out, then do 20% WCs 3daily.

another question, i dont feed them until they are out of the shell right?

Oh and i tried taking the mum and shell out one time, didnt get any fry and when i put her back in the male did bash her up pretty bad, shes right now but got scars on her face, BTW he has some too, she didnt like it. lol

Thanks, ill keep trying, No1 female is also ripening eggs, shes getting fatter, so when No2 or 3 female is out of either of the shells then she will probably spawn again.

Also i have 2 conch shells, one about 4 inch and the other 3 and a half

Anyway, thanks again for the info, ill be looking forward to anymore comments


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

The water change schedule was one 20% change every 3rd day, not 3 times daily  . This can be adjusted depending on size of fry tank. I'd go like this:
10 gallon fry tank (Typical Alto fry setup- two sponge filters and a bare floor)= WC every 3rd day, 20 gallon long = WC every 4th, 30 gallon std. = every 5th day and anything bigger just once a week as per usual.

"Spinning the shell": You really can't spin it so violently as to kill them. Sometimes I get impatient with fry clinging inside the shell and spin it pretty violently to get it over with. I think it basically disorients them long enough to get spun out. Like throwing a tornado through a trailer park full of shut ins, death is rare but in the end everyone will come out :thumb:

Just be sure not to spin in the direction which will force water into the shell. That could squish them into the very end of the shell.

Feeding:

They, most likely won't feed heavily/normally for up to 3 days after being evicted from the shell, depending on how close to their actual release destiny they were when you forced them out. So don't push the feeding. try a VERY small amount of BBS or powder a few hours after spinning them out and then watch. You should see them darting around, leaving the bottom to pursue bits of food etc. When that can be observed you feed normally. I feed Calvus fry tanks 5 times daily. However I feed barely enough for all to get some each time. A good rule is to try never to allow any of the food to settle. Because they sit still ALL the time, unless they're eating they will poison themselves sitting in uneaten food. This is where guppies and cherry shrimp can help. I like shrimp better because they eat food on the bottom and breed rapidly so you can feed them to your adult Calvus while using them to cultivate your calvus fry. Watching Calvus do their thing against live shrimp is natural and fascinating. + The cherry shrimpp is very similar, visually and nutritiously, to one of their natural prey in the lake, Limnocaridina tanganyicae.

DO NOT use "Ghost shrimp" for cultivation, the adults will eat your fry!

Remember that, in the lake, fry of most species spend their infancy in the shallows. This means high oxygen (good surface agitation), and high temps. I keep my fry tanks at 82 degrees fahrenheit. If you can't feed more than twice daily do not increase the heat above normal.

Yeah the females sometimes strike back, especially the dominant females. I have seen dominant females submit a male 2 times bigger than she. I guess Fish and people aren't that different after all :lol:


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## Cooder (Jul 19, 2011)

Thanks, ill definatley do that, in the mean time, i should put some pics up of them, next time!


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## Cooder (Jul 19, 2011)

Hey guys,

*** got calvus fry now!! No.3 females spawn that i thought failed long ago actually produced 35 + fry!!

I got 12 cyps today and 6 gold occie and while watching them, i saw a tiny fry, and a different female dart over and smash it. so i looked under the shell and saw another one, i netted the shell out (the female was going crazy and i swear would have drawn blood) and put it in the fry saver and spun it as you said to do. What do ya know? FRY!

Now *** got 35+ calvus fry in a fry saver in my show tank!! am currently re-cycling my 8 gal. i say re-cycle because it was up and running, but i turned the filter off and took most of the water out. the algea was still living and water was in the filter. I Need to get an air pump, cycling bacteria and a heater for the fry tank.

The only problem is im going away in a week with my parents, this was totally unexpected. ill have to get my cousin to do small water changes every three days and feed 3 times a day with crushed NLS.

I fed them once this arvie, because the egg sacs are gone, so they need nourishment.

Cody,


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

Congrats Cody, Hope they all make it for you while your away and you should def get some pics up of the Parents and Fry.


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## Cooder (Jul 19, 2011)

The Fry








Crappy pic of the parents, will post a dslr quality pic when i can.

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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Funny, they don't look like Aussies! lol!


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## Cooder (Jul 19, 2011)

lol no they are ALL CALVUS!

As is said ill get you some better pics when i can. and some pics of my new occies and cyps!


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## Protazerg (Aug 28, 2007)

I got a young group of 6 F1 "Yellow" Calvus, and now down to 3, the biggest one(but still only like 2.5 inches) killed the other three, and now he left the last two, but kinda just chases them away from the cave he claimed, but not killing anymore. I'm just afraid they will never pair off or anything, and then be down to just one Calvus. any Ideas what I can do to make them happier? I would like to raise fry of these, but does not look like it will happen. I keep the PH abouve 8 at all times, I add the cichlid trace salts, water is clean always. I baby them, they eat well. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Do you know for certain you have males and females?


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## Protazerg (Aug 28, 2007)

*DJRansome*
I was told the males grow faster, and the females are relatively smaller, so I am just guessing I have one male two females now.


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## Cooder (Jul 19, 2011)

Well i have another spawn on its way...female number 1 is having her 2nd spawn so hopefully these fry will pull through.

The other fry didnt, they were over fed when i was away, but i wasnt worried because i knew i would always get more...

Ill update in a month or so when they are free swiming...if i can remember


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## Barbella (May 19, 2016)

Great thread. I would like to jump in as I am fairly new to calvus.I have three males and three female black calvus in a 55 gallon tank.I put in two 5 inch shells,which the females love and one much larger shell.The second day, one male and one(or two)females entered the large shell and pretty much have not come out.They are about a year,so from what I have read,they are too young to mate.Are they just hiding in there? Should I remove the large shell?
Two days ago,I added five frontosa(the size of the female calvus) because I thought it would bring the calvus out more,and it did....good or bad move?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Other fish will bring out calvus, but frontosa need a 72" tank.

I would remove the shell and examine it to ensure the fish are healthy.


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## Barbella (May 19, 2016)

Do you recommend a different fish that would go with the calvus.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

A nice combination in a 55G tank would be shellies and a dozen non-jumbo cyprichromis.


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## Barbella (May 19, 2016)

Ok Thanks.I am picking up 12 two inch blue flash cyps today.I still have the 5 frontosas in the tank with the calvus,but I am trying to sell them.Do you think the cyps are too small to be put in with the calvus?The 3 male calvus are about 5 1/2 inches.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

At 2 inches they should be OK. Those are mature calvus!


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## Barbella (May 19, 2016)

I too had 3 male and 3 female black calvus.Inside of two weeks,i found two of the males dead.I now have three females and one male.The weird thing is that I very rarely see the male, one female has been in her shell like a prisoner in isolation,she hardly ever comes out and one swims around pretty freely,while the third is in and out,mostly in.I never see the male remotely near them.I was told that he probably killed the other two males.Is it possible that he visits them at night?I put some lelupis in there to bring them out little more.Shohldnt the male be going around to all three females shells?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The female not coming out of her shell may have eggs/fry.

No I don't see males visiting every female regularly. He will just decide it's spawning time (or know a female is ready) and then harass her for days into the shell. Things calm down for a long time after she produces fry...guess his job is done for a while. I've never seen the male actually do the fertilization of the eggs.


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## Barbella (May 19, 2016)

DJ
I think the female definitely has eggs in the shell,she spends most of her time fanning them.This is a community tank with calvus and lelupis,so I know the fry will get eaten up,should I remove the female and the shell?just the shell?or just leave them since its the first clutch?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you want to save fry (have 2 55G tanks as you can get 120...I got 180) take out the female and shell and all now and place it in the fry tank. Fill the fry tank with water from the adult tank. Read up on special requirements to raise them. Calvus fry are quite finicky to raise so be sure you want all the work for a looooooooooooong time. Mine are a year old and still not ready to go in the adult tank.

It was interesting once, but I would not do it again, LOL.


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