# 3 pairs in 140 gallon tank?



## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

H! Im wondering could I get a pair of rainbow or t-bar cichlids to my 140 gallon tank besides my full grown blue acara pair and young pair of firemouths? Firemouths have not yet bred, but blue acaras have bred many times. Acaras are not overly agressive when they spawn and I remove the eggs before they hatch. So what do you think could it be possible to have stable system with those 3 pairs? I have lots of plants and driftwood that I can use to make clear boundaries between their terratories.
Thank you for your answers!


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

First off, welcome to the forum. I hope you will find this as a good source of information with anything you might need to know about cichlids.

I would say that even though the 140 is a very large tank for those smaller species that 3 pairs might (keyword might) be too much. Although those species tend to be less aggressive than other, larger cichlids during mating, it ultimately will depend on the individual pairs you have. Plus the fact that your second pair has yet to spawn yet might (again, might) be a sign that they feel a little too stressed with the other pair constantly spawning in the tank to do so themselves.

Also what are you doing with the eggs when you remove them? IMO you will get more of an experience out of watching the parents care for at least some of them. Although this will also potentially increase aggression in the tank.

Do you have any pics of your tank? Just asking because I always like to see how others have set up their tanks.

Hope this helped some and let us know if you have other questions or thoughts. Good luck.


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

Thanks for your reply! I didn't tell in my first post that currently I still have breeding pair of convicts, witch are harrassing my same sized firmouths and that might be the reason that they have not spawned. Once female firemouth had egg laying tube showing clearly they were ready to spawn but then the male fought with convict male and got beaten. I didn't mentione convicts before because soon my friend is going to take them. Now there is divider and the firemouths are with my rainbow shark living peacefully. I feed removed eggs to other fish. Once I let acaras to grow their fry and I gave the fry to my local pet store. I will try to take some pictures of my tank.


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

So what is your complete stock list of the tank then?


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

-Firemouth pair
-Blue acara pair
-Convict pair
-4 siamese algae eater
-rainbow shark 
-very old kribensis male


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

What are the tank dimensions?


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

59 inches long, 23 high and 23,5 wide. 540 litres or 142 gallons.


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

How do I post pictures?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sticky thread at the top of each section of the forum-

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=255434


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

Thanks here is the picture of my tank! It is a bit ugly now but I will make it better when I get the convicts and divider out.


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

To answer your original question again, I still think 3 pairs is too much for this tank. Two should be doable, but if you already need a divider, I wouldn't add more to it.


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

Ps. I don like your tank setup though. Good luck.


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

Ok, thanks for advice. Atleast im going to see how it works out with blue acaras and firemouths without the divider before getting a new pair.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

In a 5' tank you should be totally fine with the Acaras and the Meeki. The 2' width is great as well.

Once the Cons are removed, adding another 'pair' could be tricky. Multispinosa are on the timid side for Centrals. Trying them would be hit or miss. And they do well in groups.


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

I think it is problem if rainbows are eaven timider than my firemouths. I bought acaras as a full grown pair and when I added them the firemouth male went hiding without acaras showing any aggression, but the 1,5 inch female flared at the 7 inch male acara . I think it will be a while when firemouths can hold their own. The acaras are not softies they had fry same time with convicts and cons lasted two days against acaras. Their fry were 2 feet apart and acaras kept bombarding the cons until cons left their fry. If I get new pair in the future i think it will be t-bars.


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

Im wondering instead of a pair could I add one salvini once the FM have grown up? I think there would be space for it but im worried when the salvini gets bigger would it destroy the FM? Im not worried about blue acaras not holding their own, because they are more aggressive than blue acaras in general. Their favorite thing to do is chase FM and when acaras spawn its hard to clean their side of the tank because they try to bite chunks of my hand. Probably salvini is going to get bossed around when it is young, so is there a high chance of it overthrowing firemouths? I know female salvini are more docile, but there is no way to choose because there are no salvini regulary in my local fish shop I will have to order one. Btw there are no convicts anymore and FM spawned but acaras ate the eggs.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Your tank looks nice. Scaped well with wood and plants. But it's lacking line of sight breaks. You need to work in some boulders and/or large sections of wood. Maybe an entire rescape. Try to make it so a fish on one end of the tank cannot see what's happening 4' on the other end.

It's going to be difficult adding anything with the Acaras spawning and defending an area.


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

Ok, when I removed the divider I rearranged tank a bit, but its still does not block sight. I will work on that. What do you think about the salvini would it get too mean?


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

I have done some research on salvini and I think it would not work with FM. Could festivum cichlid work? They are not aggressive and spend more time in middle and upper parts of the tank. Severum would be nice but they eat plants. Are there any other cichlids that I could put one to the tank?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I would say female convict, but you just removed your pair. Thorichthys can do well in groups, or a harem style stocking. So trying more FMs is a possibility. Essentially, you're trying to work something into your tank with a boisterous, spawning pair. Not gonna be easy.

Are you against adding any old world fish? Mbuna from Lake Malawi are tough and active, but they'll likely target your plants.

Where do you buy your fish? Is it easy to return or rehome? I would say more Thorichthys, but not 1.5" babies; more like 2.5+."

Have you located any large boulders or thick branches/wood? If you add any fish, I'd pull the animals and rescape and replant the whole tank. Try to work large, tall rocks into the tank. Or thick branches from the top corners down to the substrate. Anything to break up lines of sight.


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

I will reshape the tank like you said when I add new fish. Im really starting to like festivums and there are few of them in fish store and they are very rare here in Finland so if they are good idea I will get them soon. I dont think blue acara will care too much if I block sight in the tank and what I have seen festivums spend time at the middle and upper sections of the tank. Festivums also get large so they probably will not be afraid of the acaras. Im trying to make my aquarium all American so I will not get any other than Americans anymore. So what do you think should I go and buy the festivums?


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

My current FM male was bought as a partner for my now passed away female. It didnt work and they fought for a long time. The female died to fin rot and then I bought two females to the male. I had to give the other female to my brother, because current ones almost killed her altough the tank is big. Due to hostile past with other FM I dont think it would be a good idea to add more of them. My local shop does not take fish back and rehoming is quite hard. Its only shop in whole Northern Finland that sells wide variety of cichlids so I cant get them from anywhere else. I tried to edit this to my old message but I dont see my edit so I made new post.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

When I mentioned a group of FMs I was vague. You'd stock 6+ individuals. 3 is a bad number to work with unless you had a busy tank.

Mesonauta do hang in the upper parts if the tank, and will need plant cover reaching to the surface. I don't know much about them, other than they tend to be peaceful/timid in the aquarium. A bad choice for your tank, in my opinion. Again, dont know much about them, so you could ask on the S.A. forum. Do your research.


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

Do you think they would be a bad choise because they would get harassed by other cichlids? My vallisneria is starting to spread and reach to the surface it would provide some cover. I will do some more research on festivums and think about other possibilities. Thanks for advice!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Yes. Your Acaras pestered convicts enough for them to abandon their eggs/fry. I'd expect timd fish to be hiding in the upper corners.


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

I forgot to mentione that blue acara started being aggressive towards cons and FM only after that they fought against. Blue acara kept them only away from spawning area, but after conflicts male acara started to chase them. My acaras dont luckily bite they just chase. If I get festivums and acaras get aggressive I can probably rehome them easily because they are not common and they are very nice cichlids. We have active fish community here and rare cichlids are desired.


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

Lots of changes have happened again in my tank. Male Blue Acara died to what first looked like a normal popeye on his right eye, but then areas around the eye infected and corroded. I sold female blue acara because I think it is hard to find new male for such a big female. Now there is just the Firemouth pair and im going to search for a same sized pair of T-bars with them. Luckily I didnt yet buy the Festivums because I think they would have been fine with Acaras but T-bars might nip and chase them. Do you think I could get a group of young Rainbow cichlids with FM and T-bars and how big group should i get? All my cichlids would then be young and small so I think if they grow up together I could finally get a working setup.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your male.

I'd choose either the Rainbows or Sajica. If going with the Sajica start with 6-8 and remove the extras when you see a pair develop. I'd get 8 Rainbows to attempt a colony. Remove overly harassed fish or the aggressor.


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

Thanks for advice! I will go with the rainbows but I think 8 is too much . Could I get a group of 4 and if a pair forms can I keep the extra fish or do I have to get rid of them?


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Hey man,

I just wanted to drop in and point out that keeping multiple breeding pairs in a tank is both art and science. I don't think any type of convict type cichlid is a good candidate. Most of the time they can outcompete any other medium sized cichlid (and many large species).

You seem to be having a lot of health issues with your fish. Keep in mind that fish that are stressed from breeding pairs are going to be more susceptible to illness. Three pairs can for sure work if that is what you are after, but I think two pairs are the safe bet. With two pairs, other fish still have some area to hang out in and not get constantly charged from fry tending pairs. If you insist on three pairs, you need A LOT OF COVER IN THE TANK


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## Cichlids_Dude (Mar 14, 2017)

Thanks for replying. Today im going to buy Rainbow cichlids and possibly get T bar pair or a single T bar in the future. I bought more driftwood so I can make more cover. My firemouths are softies so I think they would be able to live with two more pairs and I dont eaven know if they will grow much bigger. Female is 1,5 inches and it is mature.

I dont think I have had lots of diseases in my tank. Only fin rot and that popeye. I think Acaras eye was injured and then infected because there were no other sings of disease anywhere besides the one eye


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