# N. brichardi Planted Tank



## Als49

Finally I got the tank ready and I'll get 6 sub adults brichardi 

Because I can't find any petricola, then it'll be a brichardi species tank.


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## nodima

What are the plants you've got in the tank? Anubius of some sort?


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## Als49

Most of them are bucephalandra, and then a few microsorum and cryptocoryne.
All is easy plants to grow with almost no maintenance.


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## Fogelhund

Great looking tank. I can't wait to see what it looks like as the plants mature.


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## Als49

Thank you.

It'll be quite a long time since they grow very slowly.


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## Razzo

Very nice!


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## Als49

Thanks!


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## bwestgsx06

this looks awesome, what are the dimensions and make of the tank?


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## Als49

Thank you. It's 120 x 37 x 50 cm (48" x 14" x 20") custom made by a professional glass tank maker.


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## Als49

Feeding time


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## Als49

It turned out brichardi also likes to eat nerite snails in addition to cherry shrimps. So I wonder what algae eaters that are safe and not eaten by brichardi?


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## Als49

I moved 3 petricola from another tank to this tank. So far the brichardi didn't chase them as much as Multis.

However I wonder what petricola eats because I never see petricola eating in front of me?
All the other fish always greedily darted to the food, but not the petricola...


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## BratmanXj

Petros (and most any catfish) are scavengers and cruise the bottom for whatever they can find. Mine are nocturnal and only come out when my moon-lighting is on.


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## DJRansome

They will eventually dart to the food. If you have a big enough group 5-7 they will be out and about all day...eventually.


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## Als49

The petricola occasionally swims out in the open, even during the light on. They cruised freely, then retreated back to the caves or plants. And many times I saw them peeking out of the caves.

But never see them eating, no matter which tank I put them in.

I'd love to add some more petricolas, however currently noone stocks and sells them. It seems that they're imported.

There's a local hobbyist that breed multipunctatus. I wonder if multipunctatus a good choice in addition to petricola for this tank?


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## BratmanXj

DJRansome said:


> They will eventually dart to the food. If you have a big enough group 5-7 they will be out and about all day...eventually.


I (think) I have 8...at least that's how many I put in the tank, with all my rock work I can't tell what my fish count is anymore.


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## DJRansome

You could do 5 multipunctata in this tank (at least as well as the petricola), but I'd move the petricola back to their original group.

I've had them together, that's not a problem but they do not socialize together. And multis are a bigger fish...it's not a huge tank. And the petricola may still not be completely happy.


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## Als49

Thanks. I'll try to get some more synos for this tank.


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## Als49

1 petricola found dead on the floor next to the tank. 2 left and hid in the cave most of the time.

Brichardi is too aggressive for petricola?

Should I add more syno cats, or better remove the syno cats from this brichardi tank?


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## Fogelhund

Als49 said:


> 1 petricola found dead on the floor next to the tank. 2 left and hid in the cave most of the time.
> 
> Brichardi is too aggressive for petricola?
> 
> Should I add more syno cats, or better remove the syno cats from this brichardi tank?


I think it was already said when you originally asked the question that it wouldn't likely work out.



rennsport2011 said:


> It isn't a situation I would put the petricola in. They are likely to get beaten on pretty good.


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## triscuit

Als49 said:


> It turned out brichardi also likes to eat nerite snails in addition to cherry shrimps. So I wonder what algae eaters that are safe and not eaten by brichardi?


In my experience- none.  I wouldn't risk any synodontis with brichardi complex fish. Perhaps my groups of brichardi and helianthus were all psychopathic, but they would hunt other fish at night, leaving the murder scene for me to find in the morning.


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## Als49

Fogelhund said:


> Als49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 petricola found dead on the floor next to the tank. 2 left and hid in the cave most of the time.
> 
> Brichardi is too aggressive for petricola?
> 
> Should I add more syno cats, or better remove the syno cats from this brichardi tank?
> 
> 
> 
> I think it was already said when you originally asked the question that it wouldn't likely work out.
> 
> 
> 
> rennsport2011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't a situation I would put the petricola in. They are likely to get beaten on pretty good.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

There was someone that got it worked out. So I gave it a try.



BratmanXj said:


> I curently have a 75g with 8 true S. Petrocola, 6 J. Ornatus, 4 T. Temporalis & 6 N. Helianthus (Sunflower Brichardi). The adult petros were introduced to the tank 1st, about 3 weeks later juvinile J. Ornatus & N. Helianthus were introduced. The T. Temporalis were adults and I waited about 4 months before adding them so the other species could catch up in size. So far I have not had an issue, but I also staged the introduction of fish.


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## Als49

triscuit said:


> In my experience- none.  I wouldn't risk any synodontis with brichardi complex fish. Perhaps my groups of brichardi and helianthus were all psychopathic, but they would hunt other fish at night, leaving the murder scene for me to find in the morning.


I'll remove the petricola using traps. And for algae eaters, I'll just add some snails regularly.


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## BratmanXj

Everyone will have their own experiences... With the way my tank was set up and the stocking was staged the Brichardi-complex fish were lowest on the pecking order. They did not have a chance to establish dominance and a territory with all the other species in the tank and hence they did not pair and show the typical behavior of the species.


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## Als49

BratmanXj said:


> Everyone will have their own experiences... With the way my tank was set up and the stocking was staged the Brichardi-complex fish were lowest on the pecking order. They did not have a chance to establish dominance and a territory with all the other species in the tank and hence they did not pair and show the typical behavior of the species.


Yes, I agree. Each tank is unique, and each fish is also unique. What may work in one tank, may not work in other tanks. And that what makes this hobby becomes very interesting with its trial and success 

So I'll make this tank a brichardi species tank. I wonder how long will it take before they fill the tank?


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## BratmanXj

At one time I had 3 breeding pairs and close to 80 fry in a 30g long.


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## Als49

BratmanXj said:


> At one time I had 3 breeding pairs and close to 80 fry in a 30g long.


Wow nice! I'm curious how did you setup your tank?


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## BratmanXj

Honestly nothing fancy; some white pool filter sand, 3 small piles of sandstone & slate caves, some italian val as sight breaks, 2 sponge filters full time and a Emperor 280 that kicked on with the lights 8 hr a day.


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## Als49

BratmanXj said:


> Honestly nothing fancy; some white pool filter sand, 3 small piles of sandstone & slate caves, some italian val as sight breaks, 2 sponge filters full time and a Emperor 280 that kicked on with the lights 8 hr a day.


Wow I''m still amazed how those 3 pairs could breed in the same tank without killing each other.


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## bwestgsx06

BratmanXj said:


> Honestly nothing fancy; some white pool filter sand, 3 small piles of sandstone & slate caves, some italian val as sight breaks, 2 sponge filters full time and a Emperor 280 that kicked on with the lights 8 hr a day.


You got any pics of this setup? I'm thinking about doing this with my fluval 900 studio I just got off CL


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## Als49

bwestgsx06 said:


> BratmanXj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly nothing fancy; some white pool filter sand, 3 small piles of sandstone & slate caves, some italian val as sight breaks, 2 sponge filters full time and a Emperor 280 that kicked on with the lights 8 hr a day.
> 
> 
> 
> You got any pics of this setup? I'm thinking about doing this with my fluval 900 studio I just got off CL
Click to expand...

2nd that :thumb:


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## BratmanXj

Wow, it looks a lot more dirty in a picture than it does in person. Again, nothing fancy but for the last 3 years I've had 3 pairs breeding in this tank. Lost my 7 yr old Alpha male earlier this year so I'm down to 2 pair and 30ish fry right now.


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## Als49

BratmanXj said:


> Wow, it looks a lot more dirty in a picture than it does in person. Again, nothing fancy but for the last 3 years I've had 3 pairs breeding in this tank. Lost my 7 yr old Alpha male earlier this year so I'm down to 2 pair and 30ish fry right now.


It seems really simple and it works. Amazing!


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## BratmanXj

I'll admit I've been Stupid-Lucky with my stocking. Everything I've ever been told that "absolutely will not work" has worked out perfectly for me. the bottom 30g you see in that picture was a planted tank with a trio (1m-2f) N. Cylindricus and 2 pair of Telmatochromis Temporalis shell dwellers (a few bristlenoes plecos for good measure).


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## Als49

Lol. Unlike us, the fish doesn't read reference books, so sometimes they do what they want to do unexpectedly.


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## Tangcollector

I have two pairs of wild caught daffodil pulchers right now and they are both breeding. When they start to pair off there can be major aggression. 
One Pair:





I did not see any caves. They need caves if they are really going to spawn and it will cut down the size of their territory. I have kept petricolas with them as they are the smallest of the syns. They also need hiding places. If you give plenty of hiding spaces the catfish will be fine. There is also a good possibility that when they pair off you will suffer losses. I had a pair in a 220 gallon 6' tank and they owned the tank. The small calvus and the petricolas were ok but the nasuta were dying off one by one due to the stress. They are prolific spawners and once they start look out. They are great parents and can be completely trusted to protect and never eat the fry. I have had multiple generations in one tank. I have also seen them chase 8-10 6" fontosas into the corners. They may look delicate but they are really tough and can be really nasty when they spawn. Just remember to give them and the syns caves to hide in. Good luck!!


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## BratmanXj

That's an older photo of the 75g display tank in the living room. Fish hide in the outcroppings all the way up the wall.


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## Als49

Yesterday I only saw 5 brichardis at feeding time, and I couldn't find the last one.

Just now I found the 6th one, his fin was nipped so I removed him to a bucket with aerator.

I'm still confused because 2 days ago all 6 of them were out healthily and ate together.


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## NLaferriere

That's cichlids man. Sub-dominant males can get whacked once the alpha males get established. Casualties are inevitable when keeping territorial rock-dwelling cichlids.


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## Als49

NLaferriere said:


> That's cichlids man. Sub-dominant males can get whacked once the alpha males get established. Casualties are inevitable when keeping territorial rock-dwelling cichlids.


Can it happen suddenly?

Compared to multies and julies, this is much more severed.


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## DJRansome

Yes brichardi can be very aggressive. You really have to watch and remove the rejected fish as soon as you notice. You will expect to stock fish and remove all but a pair.


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## Als49

DJRansome said:


> Yes brichardi can be very aggressive. You really have to watch and remove the rejected fish as soon as you notice. You will expect to stock fish and remove all but a pair.


Got it. I'll watch them more often and carefully.

Catching the rejected fish may be a different challenge for this fish is so quick and "silppery"  Even the wounded one was very quick to hide when the nett was dropped into the tank.


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## DJRansome

I feel your pain. I usually find it easier just to tear down the tank.


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## Als49

DJRansome said:


> I feel your pain. I usually find it easier just to tear down the tank.


Ouch. Tear down the tank is usually the last thing I do because returning everything back its "exact" place is more difficult. The plan is to tear down the tank once a year to thin out the colony and do some culling.


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## joescaper1

Als49,

From your original pictures on January 30, this is not a sudden development. In picture 1, the right hand fish, nose up at 45 degrees, shows anal and tail damage. In picture 2, the left hand fish has tail damage (both top and bottom long rays are nipped off and the soft rays show shredding}. In my opinion, based on the shape of the snout and the black line from gill to mouth, the current distressed fish is the same one as the fish I noticed in picture 2.


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## Als49

Ic. I must learn a lot to observe these details.

The one of the left on the picture 2 was a female, wasn't it? The body is smaller and the tail is shorter. I believe the bullied one was a male because there were 2 males left from the original 3m:3f.


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## joescaper1

It is hard to tell by fin appearance, because the fins are nipped. In my experience, my females are larger than the males but the males are sleeker with longer flowing fins.


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## Als49

Currently my males are larger than the females, and have longer white tips at the fins.

I become really curious about identity fish by venting them. However looking at the pics of males and females, I'm still confused recognizing which is which. So right now I mostly guess from their body size difference.

The only fish that I have confidence which one is male or female are just betta, GBR and guppy


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## Als49

I believe I have a pair of them now: 1 male & 1 female occupy the same the cave together. And the female stays there most of the time and only comes out during feeding.

I wonder if they've spawned?


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## chopsteeks

Nice tank/setup. You did an excellent job aquascaping your tank...quite an inspiration !! Oh btw, love Brichardis...I just moved mine and their **** into 55 gallon. Will try to add plants using your tank as a model !!


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## Als49

chopsteeks said:


> Nice tank/setup. You did an excellent job aquascaping your tank...quite an inspiration !! Oh btw, love Brichardis...I just moved mine and their fry into 55 gallon. Will try to add plants using your tank as a model !!


Thank you for your kind words. I also can't wait for the fries 

Based on experience my brichardis and plants in this tank, brichardis dig, but not so much. So far they only dag below the rocks to make their cave nest, and didn't disturb nor uprooted the cryptocorynes. Quite good news for aquatic plant lovers


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## Als49

Yay, there were about 10 free swimming fries! My kids were very excited when I got home, telling me about the fries!


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## Fogelhund

joescaper1 said:


> It is hard to tell by fin appearance, because the fins are nipped. In my experience, my females are larger than the males but the males are sleeker with longer flowing fins.


Most of the time my Males have been bigger in pulcher/brichardi types.


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## Als49




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## Als49

The unpaired female had been removed into a breeder box. I'll drain the tank to catch the unpaired male.

And I have a question, can I keep these male and female together safely? In the tank they mostly stay together.


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## Als49

I noticed that the male attacked the female inside the breeder box. So I separated them.

Well, I was hoping to rehome them together so that they may breed in their new place...

So in this tank there are only a breeding pair and their 12 fries. The tank seems empty for now.


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## BratmanXj

Give it a few months you'll have more fish in that tank than you know what to do with. My "2-Pair" Helianthus tank is at least 40 fry a month and the brichardi-type will leave somewhat peacefully in the family hierarchy.


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## Als49

Can't wait for that! I know what to do with all of those excess fish when the time comes


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## Als49

I couldn't resist and added 3 compressiceps. So far they withstand the brichardi's aggression and occupy the other side of the tank.


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## BratmanXj

Altolamprologus species tend to grow at a much slower rate then Brichardi species. I hope these Comps are of decent size to be able to keep up over time.


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## Als49

The comps are about 2.5" and they seem to hold there. I"ll remove them if necessary


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## Als49

The fries from the first batch get bigger. It's the biggest one. They're about 3-week old.

I wonder when the next batch of fries usually comes after the first one?


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## chopsteeks

My Brichardis produce **** almost every 2 weeks. I need to move mine though as the 55 they are in developed a leak. Thinking about moving them to a 40 breeder tank, downsizing the tank from 55 to 40 should slow down fry production..


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## Als49

chopsteeks said:


> My Brichardis produce fry almost every 2 weeks.


That's very diligent. Does the fry come from one breeding pair, or do you have multi-generation breeding pairs?



chopsteeks said:


> Thinking about moving them to a 40 breeder tank, downsizing the tank from 55 to 40 should slow down fry production..


Yes. I read somewhere that they adjust to colony number according to the available space.

I'd like to have a lot of them because someone mentioned in one of the forum threads, they can be used for feeders.


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## Als49

Perhaps the pair is spawning because the male attacked my hand when I replanted the uprooted plants this morning. He usually is never this aggressive to my hand.


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## speakerman3

The Petricola will only get about half as big as multipunctatus. My adult Petricola are maxed out at about 10 cm. I like the idea of my cats not getting any bigger than the cichlids I am keeping them with.

Your tank looks excellent!


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## Als49

Thank you. Somehow in my tank, the petricolas gets bigger faster than the Tangs.


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## Razzo

Congrats on the fry and the altolamps! Keep posting pics please


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## speakerman3

Synodontis Petricola will definitely outpace most Tanganyikan cichlids, but multipunctatus are very speedy hatchers and growers. I guess that evolution to eat mouthbrooding cichlids while in the mother's buccal cavity brought quick growth by necessity.


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## Als49

Razzo said:


> Congrats on the fry and the altolamps! Keep posting pics please


Thank you Razzo. I'll post pics when I get the next batch of fry. They're very secretive of their spawning and I never see the eggs.


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## Als49

speakerman3 said:


> Synodontis Petricola will definitely outpace most Tanganyikan cichlids, but multipunctatus are very speedy hatchers and growers. I guess that evolution to eat mouthbrooding cichlids while in the mother's buccal cavity brought quick growth by necessity.


No wonder they get bigger faster. It amazed me when I see them again, they get much bigger!

And there's no more petricola in this tank for I removed them to the gold occie tank. I see them more often there.


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## Als49

Last week I finally got a new batch of fry. And I notice that the mom dag very deep underneath rocks until the glass is seen. I wonder if she did to provide more secured space for the smaller fry?

And the dad swam around with the 1st batch fry.

Do they share responsibility? Mom with the younger ones, while dad with the older ones?


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## Fogelhund

Als49 said:


> Do they share responsibility? Mom with the younger ones, while dad with the older ones?


Yes, they share responsibilities, though it isn't as simplistic as that. You will also find that as some of the fry grow up, they will become "helpers" in the rearing and defending of the fry. The family unit can be quite complex, and as a result have become the focus of many studies.


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## Als49

Fogelhund said:


> Als49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do they share responsibility? Mom with the younger ones, while dad with the older ones?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they share responsibilities, though it isn't as simplistic as that. You will also find that as some of the fry grow up, they will become "helpers" in the rearing and defending of the fry. The family unit can be quite complex, and as a result have become the focus of many studies.
Click to expand...

Wow they're really good family with responsible parenting. It's really fascinating watching them.


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## Als49

Help: I found one 1" juvie is banised into the upper corner tank (behind canister outlet) with its fin nipped, and another 3/4" juvie dead inside the HOB filter outlet.

I'm very confused because I read in various articles and threads that N. brichardi is a step-breeding colony which takes of its offsprings. So why did this happen?


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## Als49

After the banishing incident, my son no longer wants to keep them. So I'm finding them a new home (a buyer) and will get red jewels.


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## Als49

Sold the colony and replaced them with 6 neon jewels


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