# Cardinal Tetras and Otocinclus Catfish



## Rammer (Jun 6, 2011)

So in a month or two(whenever I get my saltwater tank going) I am going to be setting up a 40 breeder that is focused around GBRs. My stocklist is as follows:

2-3 Pairs of GBRs
25 Cardinal Tetras
8 Otocinclus Catfish

These fish are all native to the Orinoco River, which would lead me to believe that they should be able to handle the same temp water(Rams do best at 84 from my understanding), but after doing some recapping from the last time I had cardinals and otos the best temp is 76-80. Would they be okay at 84 because I really want my GBRs to look their best and be happy, because I am going to try and aquire several wild GBRs if I can.


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

Cardinals are not good at 76-80, they may survive it but it is not their optimum range. They will do much better at 84, they are often used in Discus tanks for this reason. Don't know so much about the Otos, but I suspect they are going to prefer the warmer temps as well.


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## Rammer (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for the clarification on that maybe someone who knows more about ottos can chime in. Oddly enough the longest kept ottos I have kept(still have them in a 5.5 gallon tank) live in unheated water. I am not sure what it is, but I had more algae growing in my planted tank and they didn't make it...


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Well higher temp= faster metabolism = faster growth rate = shorter lifespan, so that may be why. I have otos in a 20g at 82F, so I'd say 84F isn't that far of a stretch. cardinals are great because they almost need warmer waters; I say try 84, and if the otos react negatively, bring the temp down to 82F; my rams stil had pretty nice colours at 82F, although part of it may be that my lighting is quite subdued and I have a TON of overhead plants.


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## Rammer (Jun 6, 2011)

The lower lighting helps too bad swords like 2 watts a gallon of light lol. Hopefully they will grow and shade portions of the tank and help the rams color a bit! Maybe valianeria will do that...


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## kaphil (Aug 3, 2006)

Well it is a new one on me that cardinal tetra's need to be kept at high temp's. I've always kept them at around 78-80 and they seem fine. I currently have a shoal of them in a 42 gallon tank with a group of otocinclus, all is fine. A few otocinclus died not long after they first went in, but those left have been around a fair while.
I'm no expert on otocinclus but from what i understand, temperatures up into the 80's would probably be too warm for them. If you really want the GBR, and hence need the high temp's, you may be better looking at an alternative algae eater.


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## Rammer (Jun 6, 2011)

I chose otocinclus cats for two reasons. One reason is that they are supposedly(a certain species of otto, which all of them are hard to tell apart unless disected...) from the same river as the GBRs and cardinals, not sure if it is the same area... The second reason is that they won't eat fish eggs or fry. Plecos will however and are pretty difficult to fend off as a dwarf cichlid I would think. I will go to my lfs today and ask them as well, you can never get too many opinions. I will most likely try it and see how they do, but I have experienced that most of the ones that you purchase will die no matter what you do. They don't have the best track record from what I have read.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

kaphil said:


> Well it is a new one on me that cardinal tetra's need to be kept at high temp's. I've always kept them at around 78-80 and they seem fine. I currently have a shoal of them in a 42 gallon tank with a group of otocinclus, all is fine. A few otocinclus died not long after they first went in, but those left have been around a fair while.
> I'm no expert on otocinclus but from what i understand, temperatures up into the 80's would probably be too warm for them. If you really want the GBR, and hence need the high temp's, you may be better looking at an alternative algae eater.


Nothing really NEEDS higher temps, but GBR and cardinals do better in warmer waters, at least that seems to be the general consencus.


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## Rammer (Jun 6, 2011)

Just another question that I should ask before I put any of my fish in danger. So as may well be known, all of the fish I plan on stocking need established and cycled aquariums. They are on the more sensitive side when it comes to the nitrogen cycle I assume. The other thing is that for the most realistic look I will be getting all of these fish wild caught if I can. The captive bred rams now are somewhat appualing! They appear to have balloon bellies almost so I think it would be good to get wild caught and introduce some fresh bloodlines in my area for any future breeders.

I know danios are good but I feel that it is a little cruel to put in fish just to cycle an aquarium. The other thing is that danios are fast little suckers and pretty hard to catch! So how would you recommend I cycle the tank? I was almost thinking about cycling the tank the way most people now a days cycle a marine tank: placing a piece of shrimp in the tank and letting it decay until you get 1.0 ppm ammonia...


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Here you go, guide on fishless cycling  http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/fishless_cycle.php

You could, of course, just do what I do, and take a filter from an established tank and put it on the new one, and bam! you're cycled.

(I keep more than one filter on each of my tanks)


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