# Rams/apistogrammas with catfish?



## middlearth (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm setting up a 46 gallon bowfront with Rams and/or apistogrammas as the main characters... How would they do with other lower-level tankmates, such as synodontis catfish or rainbow sharks? Would they all crowd each other, or compete for territory?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I would think the synodontis catfish and Rainbow sharks would out grow the tank and the dwarf cichlids. If your dwarf cichlids are the main attraction, you don't want dither fish that will grow to 4 or 5 times the dwarf cichlids size.


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## middlearth (Dec 30, 2009)

OK, that's what I suspected...thanks!


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

I would do panda corydoras and otto cats instead. They both stay really small. Think nano


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## aspen (Jun 15, 2004)

i wouldn't put cories with rams that i would like to see breed. i've seen them scoop out mouths full of fry enough times. however some competition for the offspring will keep the pair from going at each other. the trick is to find the right balance. i used a single oto in 10 gals. they would be just enough to keep the pair nervous, to guard their eggs and the oto wouldn't ever eat the eggs.

rick


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

I thought ottos liked to be in schools? I do not think ottos would bother cichlid eggs. The cories may try but I doubt the cichlids would allow their intrusion but maybe. :-?


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## aspen (Jun 15, 2004)

no, i've never seen oto's go near eggs. but the single oto was only there to keep the pair from fighting. every time i kept ram pairs in 10's they'd fight and i'd have to remove 1. otherwise, it'd be dead female. when you come into the room and she's hiding vertically behind the heater, you know you have to do something. a single other fish is often enough.

rick


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

I have seen an occasional Oto develop a taste for protein, one even chased down free swimming Apisto fry. However, it does seem to be rare. I just figured a heads up was in order so that it wouldn't be a huge surprise if it did happen. Usually they get the eggs in the night, when you're not watching.


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## middlearth (Dec 30, 2009)

I've pretty much decided now to go with Apistogrammas (rather than Rams), but I wasn't going to worry about trying to breed them. Are they likely to spawn anyway? Currently my substrate is a medium sized gravel.
My LFS has some synodontis petricola- dwarf catfish that they said would be fine with Apistogrammas. What do you think? 
Also, would the Apistos tolerate a bit of a current to make the catfish happy?

Obviously, non-cory catfish are not generally recommended, but I really like the look of them, so I want to investigate any possibility!

Thanks for your recommendations!!


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## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

Definitly avoid the rainbow sharks. They are agressive and can stress a fish to death. There are well over a hundred synodontis species, so it greatly depends on which species you are refering to. You should be fine as long as they stay around the same size or smaller than the apistogrammas and share the same ph/hardness demands. A safe bet would be to look at what catfish share the same water as your apistogrammas in the wild. All synodontis are from Africa, while apistogrammas are from South America. I think otocinlus would be ideal and keep your algae in check. As for Corydoras, there are over 300 species, so you should be able to find one you like. Go to planetcatfish.com and check out Corydoras pygmaeus. They are a midwater cory that form cool shoals and max out at around an inch. With 46 gallons you could do a good number of both otocinlus and Corydoras pygmaeus, but as long as you can make it work, do what pleases you. :thumb:


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## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

I over looked in your last post that you were looking to get synodontis petricola. I would definitly avoid these. The are a lake Tanganyika catfish, so they would most likely prefer hard water that would be unsuitable for your apistogramma. Plus they get up to 5 inches and from what I remember are pretty active. However, I'm sure they would love some fine apistogramma caviar. :lol:


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## middlearth (Dec 30, 2009)

OK, so the synodontis is for my next tank... :roll:...

I'll find some cories with nice patterns.

How about a gold nugget pleco?? The profiles say they are quite territorial, but generally I understand plecos to be pretty peaceful with other species. At least they are from the same continent, and like similar water parameters.

More suggestions for this newbie are appreciated!


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## middlearth (Dec 30, 2009)

OK, so the synodontis is for my next tank... :roll:...

I'll find some cories with nice patterns.

How about a gold nugget pleco?? The profiles say they are quite territorial, but generally I understand plecos to be pretty peaceful with other species. At least they are from the same continent, and like similar water parameters.

More suggestions for this newbie are appreciated!


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## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

There are two species refered to as gold nuggets. Baryancistrus sp. (L081) max out around 7" and Baryancistrus sp. (L018) which double that size. I have a juvi Baryancistrus sp. (L018) in with a whole mess of south american fish. They are one of the most striking species of plecos in my opinion. If you get a small one, you will be fine for awhile. They grow really slow. Eventually 14 inches would be to big for the other fish, but by that time you may have other plans. :thumb:


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

My suggestion would be look for one of the smaller growing carnivore plecos instead of corydoras. They are just as effective at cleaning up uneaten food as corydoras are. You would only need one in a 46 gallon tank. Something like Hypancistrus sp. (L260) Queen Arabesque Pleco or Peckoltia sp. (L134) Leopard Frog Pleco.

Here's an older photo of one of my L134's.


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## middlearth (Dec 30, 2009)

OK, so the synodontis is for my next tank... :roll:...

I'll find some cories with nice patterns.

How about a gold nugget pleco?? The profiles say they are quite territorial, but generally I understand plecos to be pretty peaceful with other species. At least they are from the same continent, and like similar water parameters...

More suggestions for this newbie are appreciated!


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## middlearth (Dec 30, 2009)

Wow, DeadFishFloating  
That is an amazing looking pleco! And I didn't know some of them were considered carnivorous...
I know I had one years ago that did grow slowly, and I think it helps if you don't feed them too much, right?
I'll have to keep my eyes out for something like your "Peckoltia sp. (L134) Leopard Frog Pleco". That would certainly fulfill my desire for a really cool-looking bottom fish!

<Sorry about the repeat postings- the site was giving me a message that it was "unavailable", and I didn't know my attempted posts were getting through anyway... :roll: >


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hey *middlearth*,

Well carnivore isn't quite the right word for them, more like meat eating scavanger. Basically the eat dead fish, animals and the like. L134's are more omnivorous, and will eat vegie wafers, uneaten cichlid sinking pellets, as well as frozen krill, bloodworm and brineshrimp.

As for plecos growing slowly if not fed to much, well that's like any fish. If any fish is not fed enough food it will grow slower, and may never reach the full size it's capable of reaching. However some plecos are slow growers, but they tend be some of the larger growing species.

One of the forum members here, apistomaster lives in your neck of the woods and breeds and sells L134's, as well as other dwarf american cichlids and catfish.


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## middlearth (Dec 30, 2009)

One of the sites I came across said the L134's are actually not good algae eaters. Do you find this to be true? 
Thanks for the referral to apistomaster...Clarkston is the opposite side of the state, but could be worth a drive!!


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## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

I am excited to learn about this! :dancing: My home town is across the river from clarkston, wa and I'm only 2 hours north. I've been interested in L134 since I first layed eyes on them.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

*middlearth* very few plecos are true algea eaters. Even bristlenose plecos are not true algea eaters, but rather vegetarians. Bristlenose would rather munch on some cucumber or lettuce, but many people do not feed them special treats, so they have no option but to eat as much algea as they can.

L134's are a Peckoltia pleco, so they are useless as algea eaters. But as I pointed out earlier, they are good at scavenging uneaten foods in the tank, and as such, make an interesting subsitute for a school of corydoras catfish as a cleanup catfish.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

hey, a lightbulb just went on in my brain--middlearth, you are the one that bought the bowfront off my porch, aren't you? :wink:

Apistogrammas should be great in that tank. Are you planning to order online or do you go to Seattle fish stores?

If you want a great little South American fish for your community, I highly recommend pencilfish (_Nannostomus _spp.). They go great with tetras, hatchetfish, and other peaceful fish and are just really fun to watch and, dare I say it? cute, and very tiny. Perfect for planted tanks. Of course I haven't seen any in Olympia :? 




My name is Angela and I am a pencilfish pusher.

When you go to get your L134, get one for me too! 8)


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## middlearth (Dec 30, 2009)

scrubjay said:


> hey, a lightbulb just went on in my brain--middlearth, you are the one that bought the bowfront off my porch, aren't you? :wink:
> 
> Apistogrammas should be great in that tank. Are you planning to order online or do you go to Seattle fish stores?
> 
> ...


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## middlearth (Dec 30, 2009)

DeadFishFloating- 
I didn't know algae wasn't the favorite dining option for the vegetarian plecos- that's good to know...
And you're right- I think the L134's are really nice, no matter what they eat!

I appreciate the input


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