# Sick Jack Dempseys



## Jack-Dempsey81 (Aug 7, 2011)

Greetings and Salutations!

I've got an 80 gallon tank with 4 jack-dempseys (all between 5-7 inches) which is currently experiencing some issues.

I have had the water tested by two different fish stores and all of my levels are normal.

The tank has been set up for the past 4 years and I've had all of these fish this long. The tank is sufficiently cycled. When I add new water I use tap water and use an 'aquasafe' type product which eliminates chlorine and conditions the water.

I did, up until recently, have a problem with my significant other overfeeding. This happened for about a month or two while I was traveling and my wife was feeding the fish. As I was out of town I did not clean the tank sufficiently either. When I came back I noticed that my substrate, small rocks, now have little reddish white worms in it. A lot of them. The look a lot like bloodworms but only appear in the substrate and I have not seen them swim elsewhere in the tank.

In conjunction with this, one of my Jack Dempseys has been acting very odd. He does not eat and primarily hangs out in the corner of the tank. When I put food in the tank he swims to the bottom and does this 'shake' thing with his body and opens his mouth as if something is trapped in there and he is trying to dislodge it. He has not eaten and been doing this for the past 3-4 weeks, though he seems to be still very vibrant in color and has not lost much weight (not sure if he is eating the worms mentioned above).

I thought this was an isolated incident but one of the other JD's now seems to be experiencing the same issue with not eating. I'm fearful whatever this issue is may now be spreading.

Food: Mostly fish flakes, dried krill, and 'crisps' which are a basically a algae/flake hybrid. No new fish introductions.

To address the worms and more importantly the JD not eating I have talked with several seemingly knowledgeable fish people and I have tried the following tactics in sequential order:

1) A water change daily of ~20% for a week to try to get all of the worms out of the tank.

Results : unsuccessful.

2) Prazipro treatment - 7 days, twice. The theory was this would kill an possible intestinal worm that the JD has and would kill all of the worms in the tank.

Results : unsuccessful.

3) Coppersafe treatment - Theory to kill any invertebrates in the tank - done about 2 weeks ago and no change in the fish or the worms.

Results : unsuccessful.

Note on the last two I removed the charcoal filter as directed.

Any thoughts about this? Anybody seen this before? I'm concerned about my JD not eating for about a month and I'm not sure what else to do. I can take a video to show you his reaction to the food being dropped in the tank if that would help (he seems conflicted like he wants to eat but does the shaking thing with his mouth/body and does not eat). He does not appear to have any visible changes in body type or color or anything aside from not eating. His belly does not seem to be bloated either.

Any thoughts or treatments options would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

So the JD hasn't eaten, that you know of, for 3-4 weeks? How does he look?

Did you siphon the gravel with each of those daily water changes? My guess here is that there is something off in your water. What I would do is siphon the gravel, _thoroughly_, today and tomorrow and then if your gravel is more than a couple inches deep, remove some of it and then siphon what remains again. If you've got large rocks or decorations sitting on the bottom siphon around them thoroughly and then pick them up and siphon under them. 
Check your filter media to make sure there's no build up of waste. If there is rinse the media off in a bucket of tank water.

The worms are either planaria or nematodes--harmless to your fish but a clear indication that you've been either overfeeding, or not doing thorough enough water changes *or both*. Despite the fish stores readings of your water I'm guessing your nitrates are quite high. This may have something to do with the JD's lack of appetite but I would also look into the possibility that there is some aggression going on in the tank.

Let me know how it goes after the massive siphonings and gravel removal  Oh and I would reduce their feed down to one small feeding a day if you haven't done so already. Give them only as much as they can consume in less than a minute.

Robin


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## Jack-Dempsey81 (Aug 7, 2011)

Robin said:


> Hi,
> 
> So the JD hasn't eaten, that you know of, for 3-4 weeks? How does he look?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comments, I will certainly start doing a massive siphon/gravel removal tomorrow. When I was doing water changes before I did do a good gravel cleaning as took the rocks/plants out to make sure everything was cleaned (in/under/around). I will likely buy a test kit for the tanks so I can get actual numbers for nitrates and other factors.

The JD who has been suffering for 3-4 weeks actually looks fantastic, which is what surprises me the most. He is the most aggressive (and largest) fish in the tank so I doubt he is being picked on. When he does venture out of his corner he swims after the other guys and exerts his dominance. He actually looks as bright blue and shiny as ever and all of his fins look great.

I'll get on the water changes and check on the levels again and report back. Thanks.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

> The JD who has been suffering for 3-4 weeks actually looks fantastic, which is what surprises me the most. He is the most aggressive (and largest) fish in the tank so I doubt he is being picked on. When he does venture out of his corner he swims after the other guys and exerts his dominance. He actually looks as bright blue and shiny as ever and all of his fins look great.


Ok so first of all I should point out that 80 gallons isn't really enough for 4 (four) JD's. Anyways, onto the subject at hand, the shaking could just be a spawning thing. If his colours and better than ever, and he chases the other fish in the tank, he could be chasing away the "competition". The staying in just one corner of the tank is probably just him defending his chosen spawning site. Also, by opening his mouth, do you mean he flares? Do his gills also stand out? If so, he's probably just displaying to potential mates/warning the other males. One more thing, I'd invest in a couple plecos or something to do a little bit of waste/algae control.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> I will certainly start doing a massive siphon/gravel removal tomorrow. When I was doing water changes before I did do a good gravel cleaning as took the rocks/plants out to make sure everything was cleaned (in/under/around). I will likely buy a test kit for the tanks so I can get actual numbers for nitrates and other factors.


Sounds like you were doing the right things, just maybe not long enough. Without the actual numbers we don't know if your nitrates are high but the continued presence of the worms is a good indication. Once your nitrates get 'up there' it can take a considerable effort to get them back down. And it's always better to have your own test kits. Look for one with the test TUBES, not test STRIPs as they are generally more accurate. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH are about all you need although KH is good to know also.

If the JD seems healthy in other respects then it may be he's just displaying as BelieveInBlue has already suggested.

Let us know how it goes

Robin


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## Jack-Dempsey81 (Aug 7, 2011)

I did the first water change since I put the coppersafe into the tank and noticed there are significantly less worms. Most of them are white and appear dead so I'm hoping we are on the right track.

I tried to get the guys to do the 'head shake' thing which normally occurs when I put food in the tank but I think they were so freaked out by the water change that they were not doing it. I did, however, take a few photos so you can check them out. Note, there is nothing in my a tank as most of my rocks and plants are on the floor (this about an hour after the cleaning)

The first two are pictures of the appetite-less fish:


















Picture of the Gang









I've had these guys a while with no babies yet. In fact, I got a couple of the JDs HOPING they would have babies but I think there's a reason we named one of them 'Ricky Martin' - if you catch my drift. I'm not sure if we have all makes or all females but there does not seem to be any breeding going on.

I was not able to get the water tested today but I will tomorrow.


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## jeaninel (Nov 1, 2009)

All the JD's in the pics look male to me.


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## Jack-Dempsey81 (Aug 7, 2011)

jeaninel said:


> All the JD's in the pics look male to me.


Hmmm.. maybe they are on a hunger strike until I give them a mate. :lol:


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh yea, he's looking to breed alright. If his colours are THAT much better than the rest, then he is definitely displaying. I'd say get rid of 2 males and get 2 females so you potentially have 2 pairs. HOWEVER, an 80 gallon tank might not have enough territory for two pairs.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Beautiful fish
but
it looks like the JD in the background has some dinged-up/missing fins? Or is it just the picture?

Robin


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## Jack-Dempsey81 (Aug 7, 2011)

Robin said:


> Beautiful fish
> but
> it looks like the JD in the background has some dinged-up/missing fins? Or is it just the picture?
> 
> Robin


Thanks - the only ding-ed up fins are on the top, which have been like that for as long as I've had him. He is the low man in the pecking order in the tank but does not really suffer much other than being chased around a bit. The tank is surprisingly peaceful all things considered.

Second water change went really well - very few worms this time. I tried to capture the shaking again with no avail. This guy seem to be happy, just not eating.

Question though, if I was to introduce a female JD to the tank she would probably have to be of equivalent size/maturity or she would get roughed up a bit coming into an all boys tank, correct?

Truth be told the tank has 3 JDs and a female black convict (about 4 inches). I was lazy in the first post and just stated 4 JD's for simplicity. I used to have a pleco about 3 years ago but the JD and Oscar (RIP) killed it. Maybe the JD is displaying for the convict? She had babies once a while back with a male BC I used to have but got rid of due to an excessive amount of fry.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

If you have 3 males and introduce just ONE female, then all h3ll's gunna break loose.


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## Jack-Dempsey81 (Aug 7, 2011)

Update - 3 more water changes and I think the worm situation is cleared up, very very few worms and a very clean tank. The JD is still not eating and when we feed the tank he does not eat. He does this head shake which I have captured on video here:






Any thoughts as to what this means?


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

Jack-Dempsey81 said:


> Update - 3 more water changes and I think the worm situation is cleared up, very very few worms and a very clean tank. The JD is still not eating and when we feed the tank he does not eat. He does this head shake which I have captured on video here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You might be reading too much into the head shake unless it is constant. Even my multies do that now and again and I always just kinda chalked it up to something involuntary like a burp or a sneeze.

I have seen a lot of fish go on a fast when they prepare for breeding, that may be what is going on. He is certainly all colored up like he is trying to impress someone. Have you tried to entice him with something with a high attractant value like fresh or frozen bloodworms or brine shrimp?


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## Jack-Dempsey81 (Aug 7, 2011)

Happy to report back that I've had multiple water changes over the past few days and I'm going to slow down to weekly changes. The tank is looking great and the JD finally came up for a bite to eat yesterday. I lured him with some of his favorite brine shrimp and he could not resist eating a couple of bites.

Thank you all for your help and suggestions!

=D>


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

:thumb:


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