# What happens when you mix...



## imusuallyuseless

This...








And this...








???

You get this...








And this...









Anyway, this is my first attempt at a plywood tank so we'll see how it turns out. I'm gonna be using the glass from my not so useful 55G in order to make the front window of this new 180Gish tank. I'd also like to add, that on the advice from a fellow DIY'er i'll be sealing this tank w/old chewing gum


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## Thrice

Lmao I did not read any of the text because I was laughing to hard. Thanks for the best laugh I've had in weeks.


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## spqrzilla

Is the effect of the beer that the tank was built in a room that it can't be removed from?


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## BinaryWhisper

so what are you saying, it takes a case of beer to get ur arse off the couch? **** of a good start to being an AA member. Take lots of pix of the journey for us.


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## saltydapleco

That Strawberry Blonde ale will do it to ya. Wonder what would happen if you got into the 
"Moose Drool"?


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## frank1rizzo

This thread made me thirsty.

Hmmmmm Red Stripe.



From the looks of it you should have 5 more of those left in the fridge.

I'll be right over. :thumb:


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## imusuallyuseless

Well i'm glad we can all keep a good perspective here. Entertainment is in fact the most important part of a thread, but i can't do it alone, so any jokes or [email protected]$$ comments that happen to pop into your heads are welcome here. Anyway, i really appreciate the heartfelt, deeply-thought out remarks 

spqrzilla, it's not the beer that's made my workspace smaller, but rather a temporary inconvience regarding available room in the house. In any case, the hallway i'm building this thing in is only ~3 1/2' wide and it's not easy to work in, but i will be able to move it once i'm done. All i have to do is flip it up on one of it's ends and carry it throught the hall like that.

BinaryWhisper, no it doesn't take a case of beer to get me off the couch, it's a recliner, that happens to be in front of the computer...get it right  In all fairness though, i didn't inhale...oh wait, i seem to be channelling the words of a great american hero; please disregard...wrong substance :wink:

Anyway, more pics in a little while, but there's not much to show. I've spent most of the day cutting the $#!+ out of myself, and trying to take apart the 55G in between band-aid runs.

IF any of you guys have input on how i should assemble the front frame, i'll be happy to see that. Just for reference, i'll be using one long side(48"x20") and two of the short sides(12"x20") to achieve this 6' front window. I'll not be using the one piece plywood frame as i don't want to buy a whole new sheet of plywood just for this. Also since the glass is only 20", but the tank will be 24"H i'll need to have the bottom of the glass resting ~4" off the actual floor of the tank. At this point i'm thinking 2x4's, but i'll listen to other ideas if you guys have any.


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## NorthShore

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You know, I needed a good laugh today. Thanks a bunch!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Are you planning on doing the epoxy indoors?


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## Toby_H

imusuallyuseless said:


> but i'll listen to other ideas if you guys have any.


Inhale next time... it won't hurt as bad when you cut yourself.


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## TTANKOFISH1

I would loose the diference in glass on top and bottom not one or the other


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## lomax

i still have the scars from when i took my 150g apart, it took days as my whole 750g was going to be made from all the glass but the bottom.

imusuallyuseless,

if it is realy 1/4 plate glass you need to get it as high as you can. i would feel better if it was 3/8s that would get you to 20 deep. my 3/4 was just barely good enough for 36, i had to lift it up 4 1/2 inches. with the sand and using the lip to hide the front UGJ pipe i never missed the few inches you cant see right in the front.


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## imusuallyuseless

NorthShore, do you think i have brain cells to spare??? Actually, i do have a couple to spare, but don't want to waste them on epoxy. The cost and indoor space issues are keeping me away from epoxy, even though i believe it would give me the best durability longterm. At this point i'm planning on using drylock directly on plywood. I'm considering using cement board coated in the drylock instead, but not sure if i can overcome my cheapness. OR there's always the used chewing gum...sugar-free of course  Anyway, i'm not expecting the drylock directly on plywood method to last forever, so i'll probably build another tank(probably ~240G) in about a year, this time going w/the epoxy.

nc, brain cells *might* be worth that :thumb:

TTANKOFISH1, Lomax pretty much answered the other reason why i need the glass towards the top. It's rather thin and it wouldn't hold up to the pressure if it's lower in the tank.

lomax, was what i sent you definate proof that it's plate glass instead of tempered, did the sticker lie to me :-? As for the 4" obstruction on the bottom, i know i won't really miss it.

Anyway, the only pic i've gotten so far is how i move a 55G by myself, since i don't have the arm span or grip of a giant...


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## blairo1

:lol: I like that, oh man, the list of things I've used my skateboard to roll around in the past is endless....


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## lomax

i just checked the web and i can find no info on if a tempered glass can be chiped and not explode, but one site said if it does the whole glass can fail anytime the pane is stressed. it all depends on if the compression layer has been broken.

I would test the tank out side.


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## spaznout0329

I think somebody's trying to follow the footsteps of TGF...only on a much smaller scale! When I saw your first post useless I got to thinking, are you even old enough to legally drink? Good Luck on your project and I'm glad ya let me know about it!


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## OceanDevil

BTW you have to finish this tonight, while you still remember the "plan" :lol:

Looks like fun man good luck.


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## imusuallyuseless

Um, i am in mexico, besides i didn't inhale  Anyway, i was originally thinking a smaller scale TFG style, but two issues have currently stopped that...one is the expense of having to buy the cement board and the second thing is the weight. Obviously TFG's method works well for him, but i honestly don't think he'll ever attempt/have to move that thing. I know i'll have to move mine at some point so i'm not real crazy about adding more weight to it. In any case i'm done for the night. The tank trim is completely off and in a million pieces all over the floor. I still haven't completely gotten rid of the silicone that's still holding this tank together. I'd keep going, but my hands are too sore and bloody, so i'll start back up in the morning. On a final note for the night, i must warn you about...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The Fox & the Hound 2. It's an okay movie in it's own right, but if you saw the first one, then this one just doesn't live up, left me feeling rather disappointed :-?

PS Anyone got any tips about removing the silicone between the panes. At first it was working pretty well to use dental floss to kind of cut it, but that tears too easily. Perhaps tomorrow i'll try fishing line...


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## spaznout0329

I'm not sure if this will work very well, but have you tried making long cuts alove the seams w/ a razor blade or box cutter? I've never done it, but it kind of seems logical, but it probably won't work. I'm a girl I don't think carpentry like you guys do!


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## Thrice

You could try those cable saws used to cut PVC. They got handles and won't break. They are like 2 bucks at HD.


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## imusuallyuseless

Thrice how thick are those cable saws??? Ans i am currently using razorblades(which account for half of my cuts), but they're too thick to get in between the panes of glass.


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## Thrice

Oh yeah thicker then a razor blade so that won't work.


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## imusuallyuseless

Taking apart this tank is harder than i was expecting. I've been trying fishing line for the past 2 hours and even that is too thick to get in between most of the panes :x


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## NorthShore

Ok, relax. Deep breath. Time for some of these. They'll bring out your creative juices....


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## imusuallyuseless

I'm all out :-?


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## TheFishGuy

Hey you drunk.... make the front out of one piece of plywood.... Cut it to the proper dimentions then cut out the area for the glass. It will be.... by far.... the strongest way to do it. Here's a drawring to reference to.....


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## Thrice

imusuallyuseless said:


> Taking apart this tank is harder than i was expecting. I've been trying fishing line for the past 2 hours and even that is too thick to get in between most of the panes :x


When I am in trouble I look for chemicals to help me out. Chemicals can solve all of lifes little problems. What you need is something that dessolves slicon...
Try a really strong vinegar like they type thats used in cleaning. If that should fail acetone will work. these will not dessolve the silicon but they might make it lose its bond to the glass or at the very least swell up so it will be easier to remove.
Cover the suface of the silcon with the vinegar and then cover the tank so it won't evaporate let is sit a few minutes and then see what happens.


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## TheFishGuy

OOOOOOO Chemicals are fun!!!!


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## imusuallyuseless

TheFishGuy said:


> Hey you drunk.... make the front out of one piece of plywood....


No problem, just use your HD credit card and order the sheet of plywood online or over the phone. Just be sure to let them know you'll be picking it up at the 79912 store.

Thrice, thanks for the suggestion, but so far i haven't found anything that works very well on disolving silicone. I've tried acetone and even paint stripper :?

EDIT: probably should've put this in the first post, but after a discussion w/my lawyer i figured i'd at it now...

WARNING

THE AUTHOR OF THIS THREAD IS A PROFESSIONAL. PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT THESE ACTIVITIES AT HOME. IF YOU ATTEMPT TO DRINK THIS MUCH,

YOU WILL DIE


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## lomax

there is no chemicals i found that helps at all, they just gave me a head ache.

i used little wood shims and a hammer, no really. i started at the top the pried the glass apart just enough to get the blades in. then i worked the shims very slowly down, now it worked for me BUT i had 3/4 glass and it can take alot more of a beating.

I used wood shims because they are much softer then the glass so was less change of them chiping the glass or putting to much pressure.


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## TheFishGuy

It's not easy.... It just takes time...


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## MalawiLover

I have found that those cheap 'break-off blade' utility knives from HD work decently for separating glass.

http://www.dickblick.com/zz574/34

Take the blade out of the handle and slide it down the seam. once you get it down about 2-3 inches, pop a regular single sided razor blade in the seam on the very top. Push it down untill the wider back edge is below the top of the glass. This gives you enough 'wedge power' to stop the long blade from hanging up.


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## imusuallyuseless

I'll try that blade thanks for the tip. If that doesn't work, might have to break out the wood shims and hammer :lol:


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## imusuallyuseless

Well kids, i've got good news and i've got bad news...
1st i just saved a bunch of money on my motorcycle insurance by switching to...
2nd I've been informed that i was voted as the world's sexiest midget under 25. This means i'll be going on a worldwide tour, which won't leave much time for this project, which really sucks because...
I just got the front piece of glass removed. YAY!!!!!
only two more pieces to go 

TFG did you already pay for my plywood???


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## MalawiLover

*imusuallyuseless*

Do you have multiple personalities in there, or just naturally bizzare? :wink:


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## imusuallyuseless

Unfortunately i can *not* answer questions regarding the state of my current mental faculties. My lawyer has advised that it could jepardize my case as we have not completed the 'competency to stand trail' hearing portion of my case.

I can say this: My mom thinks i'm special, but for some reason other people's parents warn them to stay away from me. Could be the rope, gas can and crazed look i always have, but that's just an uneducated guess.

I've now got all the pieces of the tank i need completely detached. So i can now concentrate on figuring out how to do the front frame. On that note, does anyone have any suggestions for carrying the wood i need for the front frame on this thing...


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## illy-d

blairo1 said:


> :lol: I like that, oh man, the list of things I've used my skateboard to roll around in the past is endless....


I moved a Hide-A-Bed by myslef using just my skateboard - that was tough as those bloddy hide-a-bed's are ridiculously heavy!!! But when you have to make room for a new tank you find ways to do the impossible!


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## blairo1

Hmm, maybe the motorbike isn't the answer.... We've already seen how useful a skateboard can be :lol: .


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## imusuallyuseless

Perhaps i'll drag the skateboard behind the bike :wink:


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## blairo1

Now you're on my trail of thought :? (been drinking again eh?).

Either that or wear the plyboard around you - it'll have the hole in the middle right? Only problem with that is it may act like a wing and I don't know how well the 5-0 would take to it :lol: .

It would be a sight to be seen though.


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## TheFishGuy

Just rent one of those nifty little truck the home dumpster has for $20 an hour or something silly like that....

OR

Strap the plywood to your forehead!!!!!! <-------- I'm voting for this!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TheFishGuy

Tell you what, if you get a picture of a 4x8 sheet of plywood strapped to your head while sitting on your bike I'll pay for the plywood!


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## blairo1

yeah I'd have to take TFG up on an offer like that, a night in the cell or not, it'd be worth it...


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## imusuallyuseless

As great an idea as that sounds, i don't think i want to end up in a cell or hospital room tonight, i have to work tomorrow. I'm still thinking 2x4's at the moment...


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## imusuallyuseless

Transportation issues aside, i think it would be a PITA to try and cut three holes in the plywood.


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## KeSs

even if the tank fails dont get discouraged because you have fantastic taste in beer


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## imusuallyuseless

I know I do, but thanks :thumb:

Anyway, i went to HD right now in hopes of getting my one 2x3, two 2x4's and one 2x6. Unfortunately they didn't have a descent scrap of wood. I may end up going w/the plywood front just so i don't have to go digging for descent 2by's :? I'm still not completely sure though because i think making the cutouts is going to be difficult...any tips on making the cutouts would be appreciated.

Forgot to mention i've only got a drill and circular, i don't think either would work very well for this.


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## MalawiLover

Drill the corners of the cut out with the largest bit you have. Take the circular saw and set the blade depth just a bit deeper than the plywood. Pull the guard back to expose the blade. Touch the front edge of the stablizer on the saw on the ply. (like its doing a head stand). Turn on the saw and slowly lower the back end until the blade cuts down through the ply and the stabilizer rests completely on the ply. Cut from one hole to the next. Done. Or, this might be a fine time to pick up a jigsaw at the HD. they are like $20 and invaluable. IMO.


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## TheFishGuy

Do you have a hand saw? You can finish the cuts with a hand saw too. Also when cutting out holes with a circular saw it's best to have the saw set as deep as possible in order to get as close to the corners as you can. The deeper you set the saw the more virticle the cut will be. If you set the saw a frogs hair deeper than the plywood is thick then you'll be left with a long angle towards each end.... Here, I'll do a drawing for you :lol:










Be very carefull when doing a plunge cut with a circular saw. It can kick back if you go too fast or release the trigger. Setting the saw shallow for the initial plunge is a GOOD IDEA, as a matter of fact doing most of the cut with it shallow is a good idea. When you get close to the ends hold the saw firm, release the trigger, pull the saw out then set it deep. Put it back into the slot, hold it firm then finish the cut. My bet is that you'd get so close to the end of the cut with the saw set deep that you could clean up the corners with a razor knife.... I know this because I do it every day  Just be carefull, I know too many people that screwed them selves up using a saw.... Grip the saw like you grip the handle bars off that little putter of yours ( the bike, get your mind out of the gutter!) Firm, but not tight.....  How about you send me all the dimentions.... I'll buy the wood, cut it out for you to your specs then ship it to you. You pay the shipping :wink:


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## blairo1

I wish TFG lived near me, man what generosity!!!


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## imusuallyuseless

Yes, my grandpa is rather generous at times, *but* I've started assembling my 2by frame and should have it attached to the tank tomorrow. I just couldn't wait, and although the plunge cut idea w/the circular sounds like it would work, i'd also probably be missing part of my thumb, and i'm not too cool w/that idea. More pics to come tomorrow.

Merry christmas and to all a good night :zz: :zz: :zz:


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## TheFishGuy

Whimp....


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## blairo1

:lol: I love this thread, sorry I don't really have anything to offer, but it's great to follow and I'm sure I'll have just as much fun when I have a go at building my own.

Every fishkeeper should try DIY their own tank at one time or another right!?

Blair.


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## imusuallyuseless

You should try to make one, this will be my 3rd DIY tank, although it is the biggest and only plywood one.


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## Al'Thor

My God useless! That doesn't look like a sacrificial alter yet! My inner chi was telling me to come over to this forum and see what was going on.......the scope of madness that you call reality is stunning. I do, however, think that TFG's drawings are quite nice. :wink: I will be following this thread for several reasons. 1) I plan on buying a house here in the next couple of months(If the creditors don't laugh too hard!) 2) Needless to say, I would like to have a few more tanks than I currently own, and DIY might be a good option. I want to see how this turns out. 3) I would like to see how many fingers are lost during this project......right now the over-under is set at 3. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and taking the under.

Granted, I read through this thread fairly quickly.....but I'm curious how you're going to releive stress on both the top and bottom portions of the glass. Are you going to have both edges embedded, and are you going to have a cross piece in the center? Are you planning a sump tank for it? Try not to drink too many beers while you build this thing....you don't want this goat sacrif.....um, I mean fish tank to be lopsided!


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## imusuallyuseless

Al'Thor said:


> My God useless! That doesn't look like a sacrificial alter yet! My inner chi was telling me to come over to this forum and see what was going on.......the scope of madness that you call reality is stunning. I do, however, think that TFG's drawings are quite nice. :wink: I will be following this thread for several reasons. 1) I plan on buying a house here in the next couple of months(If the creditors don't laugh too hard!) 2) Needless to say, I would like to have a few more tanks than I currently own, and DIY might be a good option. I want to see how this turns out. 3) I would like to see how many fingers are lost during this project......right now the over-under is set at 3. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and taking the under.


I appreciate the support, but at this point i don't think any fingers will be lost. Most of the sawing for the tank is complete, *but* i still have to do the stand so you might get lucky 8)


> Granted, I read through this thread fairly quickly.....but I'm curious how you're going to releive stress on both the top and bottom portions of the glass. Are you going to have both edges embedded, and are you going to have a cross piece in the center?


Not sure exactly what you're talking about here :-? I'll draw something up tomorrow, that will hopefully make this a bit more clear.


> Are you planning a sump tank for it? Try not to drink too many beers while you build this thing....you don't want this goat sacrif.....um, I mean fish tank to be lopsided!


I'm sort of planning a sump for this thing but will need input on that as well. I can either use the ~54Gish rubbermaid tub i have lying around as a sump and it would be fairly straightforward for me to setup, but i was thinking that perhaps i should use my 44G tank instead, this way i can use it as a hospital tank in case one of the fish from the main tank gets injured. At this point i'm not really sure what i should do, but i definately need to decide soon because the stand would have to be designed based on what container i'll be using as a sump. And i'm not going to be applying the drylock until i have the stand built, so this could potentially hold this project back :?

PS as for it not looking like a sacrificial alter...still have time to make the necessary modifications :wink:


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## RRasco

this is great. i was wondering what all the commotion was about.

ah, the days, when i transferred apts in my complex i had to move my entertainment center on a skateboard! right down the parking lot. gets some more pics up already!


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## imusuallyuseless

More pics to come soon, well maybe not 

Anyway, i did the frame and i think it would be strong enough, only problem is i think it's butt(seam) ugly :lol: I couldn't imagine looking at this thing everyday, especially since it'll be my last tank for the next few years. Anywhooo, i just got back from lowes right now, w/the plywood front. This means the likelyhood of loosing fingers has just risen again :thumb: I basicly have 2 pieces that are 6'x2' and one of them is obviously for the front frame, but i was thinking off using the other to either top the stand, *or* screw it to the top and make cutouts, like arcyllic tanks are made. I think this would give even more stability to the tank and minimize how many more cuts i'd have to do. So my question is, do you think that would increase the strength much over the typical bracing or is it just a waste of plywood???


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## Austin8214

I am disapointed there was not one bottle of Lone Star in that first post. Must not be a real Texan.

Good luck to you.


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## lomax

this is the very best way to do the top braces, use the plywood


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## imusuallyuseless

Austin8214 said:


> I am disapointed there was not one bottle of Lone Star in that first post. Must not be a real Texan.
> 
> Good luck to you.


Coming from someone who lives in michigan  Besides although i'm a texan, the part i live is pretty isolated from the rest of the major texas cities, where this stuff is usually found. Anywhoo, appreciate the support, hope to have a few more pics late tonight.

Lomax, so yes the full top would be best???


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## Al'Thor

This page kind of describes what I was talking about. I meant to use the term inset, and not embedded. I'm sure you've scoured this site already for info, but I thought I'd put it up anyway.

http://www.garf.org/140.gallon.html#ASSEMBLE

Personally, I wouldn't put a plywood top on there. I would think that moisture would rapidly disintegrate your wood top. I would install a center brace for structure support, and buy four pieces of glass cut to your specs and make hinge tops. And it might reduce the odds of losing more of your fingers.  I also looked at a couple of glass topped table woodworking sites, and the same premise applies, just need to tweak it a bit for large aquarium use. My brain is still processing ideas, so don't cut off any fingers quite yet.....you can make it un-butt ugly!


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## imusuallyuseless

My frame is going to be similar to the one shown on that page, but w/a few differences. 1st it'll be all one piece w/the windows cutout, instead of having several strips screwed to the walls of the tank. 2nd since i'm using 20"H glass on a 24"H tank, i'll need it to be ~4 off the floor of the tank, and a 2x4 will serve that purpose. 3rd i'll be using three pieces of glass instead of the one piece that is typicaly used w/these sort of tanks so i'll have to put in support for those glass seams. I know this probably not what you guys want when you asked for more pics, but i believe this illistrates pretty clearly what my plans are...








By the way, the green is the 2x4 on the inside of the tank, supporting the glass from underneath.

My 2by frame looked pretty much the same, just uglier...








Anyway, it's not a big deal because most of it is salvagable for use in the stand. Which reminds me, i still need to figure out what i'm gonna use for the sump so i can get the stand designed and built, so does anyone have opinions on which container i should use???

I also get where you're coming from regarding the entire top, and the glass tops sound cool, but i've already got the plywood, don't have funds to buy more glass. And for what it's worth, the top will be getting the same treatment as the sides and bottom, up to and including siliconing the seams between the top and walls of the tank. I'll probably have to be inside the tank to accomplish this so that should make an interesting picture, should also kill a few brain cells there too :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Besides it's not like it'll be entirely enclosed, i'm trying to figure out where i should put little hinged doors for feedings and adding new fish and stuff like that.


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## imusuallyuseless

Oops, you'll probably have to click on the pics and enlarge them to clearly see what i'm talking about


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## Austin8214

> Coming from someone who lives in michigan Besides although i'm a texan, the part i live is pretty isolated from the rest of the major texas cities, where this stuff is usually found. Anywhoo, appreciate the support, hope to have a few more pics late tonight.


Yes, I may live in Michigan but I am half Texan as my mother is full Texan. But I have to go to the lone star steakhouse to get Lone Star beer.


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## imusuallyuseless

Well guys i've got some bad news. Although i pre-drilled all the holes i still had a problem when attaching the front frame...








I've got two screws poking through the inside of the tank. At this point i'm thinking of adding a vertical 2x4 w/tons of glue and a few screws to kind of patch it up, but i'm open to other suggestions :?


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## lomax

remove screws and redrill next to them with a bit bigger hole. use wood patch and fill the holes made from the screws.


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## imusuallyuseless

For the wood patch, will bondo work or is there something specific i need to get???


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## lomax

bondo good or just some simple wood filer, i used some wood filer to cover over any chips or defects in the plywood.


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## imusuallyuseless

Bondo it is. I'll probably need to use it to straighten out the cutouts for the windows too. My brother stole a reciprocating saw from my dad, even though i asked for the jig saw(he didn't know the difference). Anywhoo, i'm not a big fan of reciprocating saws especially because i suck at using them. The cutouts for the windows are insanely crooked. Too embaressed to take a pic at this point, but once i sand it down, then bondo, then sand again i'll post a pic. Anyway, it's actually starting to look like a tank now, it is very apparent it's done by someone...in altered state of mind though  Hope to get the stand started and completed tomorrow and since no one has bothered to weigh in on which container i should use as a sump i suppose i'll have to sleep on it, and the first one that pops into my head in the morning will be used.

Good night


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## Al'Thor

imusuallyuseless said:


> Hope to get the stand started and completed tomorrow and since no one has bothered to weigh in on which container i should use as a sump i suppose i'll have to sleep on it, and the first one that pops into my head in the morning will be used.


If you haven't already decided, I'll chime in and say go for the 44gal. It would be easier to build into the stand than a Rubbermaid IMO. And like you said, it could be used as a hospital tank. Personally, what I would do is turn the sump into a *heavily* planted tank that could double for nitrAte reduction. Keep the inside heavily planted, and put a mesh over the top and grow some tomatoes with the roots going through the mesh. NitrAte reduction, and fresh tomatoes. Win-win. Unless you don't like tomatoes....... :-?


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## imusuallyuseless

Thanks for the input Al, but the 44G is apparently out of the question now. That leaves me w/the rubbermaid or my 90G. That brings me to my next point, does anyone think the stand could have a 4'span w/no support???


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## Al'Thor

imusuallyuseless said:


> Thanks for the input Al, but the 44G is apparently out of the question now.


You didn't dimantle that one and use it for parts did you? :x


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## imusuallyuseless

No i didn't, it's the tank my girl currently has her goldfish in. I offered her the 90G in exchange for the 44G, so she didn't have to clean it as much. She initially said yes, and then changed her mind today. Women, what can you do :roll:

So here's the idea for the stand, what do we think???


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## Al'Thor

Hey useless, you built that stand yet? If not, there's a guy from another forum who built his stand for $23! $1.08 bricks from Lowes and some boards.....that's it. The only thing I would do differently is to put the lower tank(or in your case a sump) on a load bearing roll out shelf. Matt122112 from Oscarfish.com got his stand made in about an hour. He didn't even lose any fingers.....although I have a lot of faith that you could manage to lose one or two in the process! 

Take a look......pretty sweet if you ask me. And of course you can finish the bricks a bit nicer too.


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## lomax

plywood tanks are like plexi tanks and need support under all the bottom and not just the sides. you could do this setup but i would use 4x4s across the top.


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## Al'Thor

Yeah, you're right. I think Matt said he used 1x6 boards all across the top. Do you think that 2x6's or 2x4's would work? Or do you think it's one of those 'Better safe than sorry' situations?


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## lomax

it depends on the span, on hid tank more of the load is on the corners then the sides and this changes the stress on the tank. if the tank is all glass and built correctly and not huge its not a problem. but the bigger the tank and the longer the span and it could cause even a all glass tank to split a bottom seam. plywood tanks can not hanndle the span a all glass tank can so would need even thicker top.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

That double stand idea looks ok, but i don't think my mom would want something like that in her living room. I've been working on the stand today, and i expect it to be functionally done by tomorrow. It won't be pretty, but will serve it's purpose. This is good news because once the stand can hold the tank, i'll start painting it. At this point i expect to have it filled in about a week, unless something crazy comes up :roll:

Stay tuned kids 

EDIT: Forgot to mention that i did get the front frame on as well. Didn't attempt the plunge cut w/the circular, was able to use a reciprocating saw instead, but cuts didn't come out very straight. I also patched up those holes w/bondo. Tried to straighten out my front windows w/the bondo as well, but i don't want to do a ton of sanding either. At this point i think i'll be installing a trim around all the windows, so it'll hide the 'flaws' of my cutting skills.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Well guys, the stand isn't completed yet, but definately will be tomorrow. Here's what i've got of the tank so far...








It's been really slow going because my family is complaining about the noise my power tools produce, so i only get to work on it for a few hours a day, if that :roll: Tomorrow i'm gonna get a few quotes on glass to see if i can't make the windows bigger. If the price is too high, i'll just be sticking w/the 55G glass.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

This is after two coats on the inside and one coat on the outside. Next inside coat will be blue, then i'll silicone the seams and install the glass.


----------



## spaznout0329

I know nothing about this type of stuff, but I think its lookin' pretty good. Do you still have all your fingers?  :wink:


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Most of them


----------



## BinaryWhisper

yeah that looks great. I like the entire concept.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Thanks, i'm expecting to have this thing filled by next weekend


----------



## imusuallyuseless




----------



## Al'Thor

imusuallyuseless said:


> Most of them


What exactly do you mean "Most of them"?! TFG, nc_nutcase, myself, and the good Dr. Greenthumb have a bet going on whether or not you'll be able to tie shoelaces after this or not... 

Looks good! I'm anxious to see the finished product. :thumb:


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Don't need your pinky to tie your shoelaces, now do you 

Anyway, i'm currently cleaning up all the old silicone off the glass so i can get it prepared to be siliconed into place, hopefully tomorrow 

BTW What odds are you guys giving on this bet???


----------



## BinaryWhisper

Useless, I reread the thread and you indicated that you were doing drylok directly on plywood. Is that what you have done? Any corner or seam treatments?


----------



## lomax

i hope so :lol:

we need more data points for this idea, if we have two tanks done this way and both have not failed in a year it does improve this methods safety factor. it does not prove that it will last years but it may rule out the first tank as a fluke. of course failure of eather tank could come from other reasons besides the drylock so we need a few more tanks done this way, any volunteers :lol:

when i do my next tank it will be 1200 - 1500g and be done this way but just a bit modified, i will use hydrolic cement and mesh building up a 1 inch or so of wall then drylock over that. i will do a small test tank first and it maybe possible to do the backgrond and seal the tank in one step.

imusuallyuseless,

tank looks good if a bit small :lol:


----------



## BinaryWhisper

lomax said:


> i will use hydrolic cement and mesh building up a 1 inch or so of wall then drylock over that. i will do a small test tank first and it maybe possible to do the backgrond and seal the tank in one step.


funny, I had the same thought.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

BinaryWhisper said:


> Useless, I reread the thread and you indicated that you were doing drylok directly on plywood. Is that what you have done? Any corner or seam treatments?


Yes that is what i've done. I've gone back and forth on this as TFG has been steadily hounding me to get the cement board stuff that he used. That indecision was costing me time coupled w/the car problems(necessary repairs) i've been having costing me more money than i expected. Both of those have delayed this project longer than i would've liked, i truly expected to be done w/this thing within a week and so did my mom, she's not real happy i'm taking up half of her dining room, especially during the holidays. Time and money are the main reasons i went w/the drylock directly on the plywood. As for the corner or seam treatments, i'm not sure if you're referring to strength reinforcements or sealing. If it's the sealing, then yes i will be using silicone in all the seams. There's no way this tank could be built w/o it because as each layer dries i've noticed small hair-line cracks running along most of the seams. I'll probably be sealing up all the seams at the same time i install the glass. I'm still struggling on that, because even though you can't see it, i didn't add the 2x4 on the inside because i could find a straight enough piece to go in there and support the glass evenly and i was also holding out hope that i'd magicly come upon a 3/8"thick 6x2 piece of glass for a reasonable/cheap price. That didn't happen so now i've got to figure out how i'll support the glass from underneath. At this point i'm thinking about adding a strip of glass spanning the length of the front glass, but am not sure :?

Lomax, i don't think this tank will last years and i do think mine will probably fail before the other one. The main reason is that i tend to move my tanks, *ALOT*. If anything i suspect that'll be the reason it would fail. I'm hoping this tank will be just big enough to discourage me from moving it. In any case i don't have total control over this issue because we rent so there's always the possibility of having to move. That's the tricky issue for me because *IF* i did the tank TFG style i think it would last longer, but it would also add weight to the tank which might make it alot more difficult to move. Anyway, i hoping it lasts at least a year, so i'll have time to sell most of my other tanks and work some more, so i have enough money to do it _*right*_ next time, be it epoxy or TFG style. As for your idea, i was considering something along those lines, only i was thinking of lining the entire inside of the box w/styro and then make a 'concrete/styro backround' in the entire tank, then drylock over that. That would've given me the extra insulation that i was originally after and i've have the cement for the drylock to soak into instead of just the plywood. The thing that stopped me was that i didn't think i could get the cement to stick to the styro well enough to actually seal the tank w/. Also if i make the cement layer too thick it would add weight which might've caused the styro sheets and cement to pull forward away from the walls and into a big pile of **** in the center of the tank. As for the tank being too small, well that's all about perspective sir. A 747 engine looks huge as it's about it suck you in and kill you, but doesn't look that big if it's floating in the ocean as part of a wreckage.

Anyway, it's amazingly snowing here so i've gott move my bike under the patio, later.


----------



## BinaryWhisper

imusuallyuseless said:


> be done w/this thing within a week and so did my mom, she's not real happy i'm taking up half of her dining room, especially during the holidays.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats insane. My otherwise pacifist mother ould have butchered me and feed the pieces to the dogs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> even though you can't see it, i didn't add the 2x4 on the inside because i could find a straight enough piece to go in there and support the glass evenly and i was also holding out hope that i'd magicly come upon a 3/8"thick 6x2 piece of glass for a reasonable/cheap price. That didn't happen so now i've got to figure out how i'll support the glass from underneath. At this point i'm thinking about adding a strip of glass spanning the length of the front glass, but am not sure :?
> 
> 
> 
> well that sux. I can't think of a fix for that cept to drylo up a 2x4 and add it. I was trying to think of things you could silicon in like legs. 1.5" ABS pipe cut to 2" peices and siliconed in every 6 or 8 inches like little legs might work. Has to be something you can attach without drilling or screwing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, it's amazingly snowing here so i've gott move my bike under the patio, later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 :lol: I live in the great white north and its a friggin spectacular day. We have had an insanely nice winter so far.


----------



## lomax

nice day here too i`m out in my shorts feeling like its spring, working on my pergola over the deck i just built.


----------



## illy-d

if you can't find a straight 2x 4 use smaller sections of 2 x 4... any deviations are exaggerated by length... keep 'em short and they will work better.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Thanks for the suggestions, but don't appreciate everyone having a nice day. I'm freezing my @$$ off here :?


----------



## TheFishGuy

You could even simplify it more by laying the tank on it's face and installing the glass that way. You can do all the siliconing whilst it's laying down too. Doing it this way will also give you the option of putting some dead weight on the glass while it's drying....

Sorry I haven't responded in a while but I stoped getting notified. So someone respond so I get notified........ I had to read four pages...... It was painful and I plan to sue each and every one of you!


----------



## imusuallyuseless

> You could even simplify it more by laying the tank on it's face and installing the glass that way. You can do all the siliconing whilst it's laying down too. Doing it this way will also give you the option of putting some dead weight on the glass while it's drying....


That's exactly what i was planning on doing, but i'm a bit concerned about the weight of the glass once it's been uprighted putting too much pressure on the bottom silicone seam and the glass basicly starting to stretch the silicone beyond it's limit. Perhaps i'm a bit paranoid here as the glass isn't extremely heavy, but i figured adding the support to the bottom would be 'better safe than sorry'.


----------



## TheFishGuy

I wouldn't worry about it seeing as you're going to have a "buttload" of silicone between the glass and drylok, then you're going to run a nice bead around the edge of it too..... It won't move. Trust me.


----------



## lomax

the water will hold it in place also, i needed a lip to rest my glass on as it was 3/4 96 inch by 30 so it was very very heavy. that and there was no way to tip the tank over without bring in a crane.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Yea i knew the water help hold in place when filled, but i was more concerned when the tank was empty.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Well guys i attempted the plunge cut w/the circular and i've still got all my fingers and the cuts came out much straighter than when i used the recip. saw. Anywhooo, a six pack of coronas later and i've cut the top for my tank...








In case you're wondering i'll be setting the bottom piece of glass from the 55G over the large hole in the center and that will protect my light fixture from any moisture. and will also be my main acess point if/when i have to add or remove fish. The two cuts on the back are because i'm too broke right now to afford the return pump for the sump so i'll be using two HOB's for the meantime. Anyway, I'll be painting this w/the drylock tonight and as it's drying i'll install the glass into the tank.


----------



## TheFishGuy

I knew you could do it!


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Yea it turned out pretty well, but now i'm a bit annoyed that i didn't try it and get better looking cuts for the front frame


----------



## davidhusker

nice work


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Thanks


----------



## floyd the oscar

nice, whats rong with using a jigsaw? is that ply too thick? or am i totally off the subject?


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Nothing besides the fact that i don't have a jigsaw.

Anyway, 
THE GLASS IS IN!!!


----------



## paisley_tele

what kind filters are you going for for the tank?


----------



## floyd the oscar

wooo glass


----------



## imusuallyuseless

paisley_tele said:


> what kind filters are you going for for the tank?


Trying to steal ideas eh 

My original plan was to use a sump, and that's what i'd suggest for you to use on your new tank(great job BTW). I think a 55G would make a good sized sump for a 180G. Since i took apart my 55G to make this tank, i'll either be using my 44G cube tank or a ~50G rubbermaid container. I'll eventually use the 44G as the sump, because if i ever need a hospital tank i'll just have to remove the fish from the main tank and drop him in the lower tank w/o having to worry about it having to adjust to different water conditions than it's used to. I was going to use my 100G or 90G, and designed stands to accomidate them being built in as well, but it really just got to complicated so i'm going to stick w/one of the smaller containers. Anyway, i'm now too broke to buy the return pump for my setup so that's temporarily out the window. For now i'm going to be using some of the stuff i already have. I haven't narrowed down which exact ones i'll be using, but it will be two HOB's, which is why i had to cut those two cutouts near the rear of my plywood top. I'll either use both my penguin 330's, both emperor 400's or my AC110 w/one of the others. I used to have two and i think they're probably the best filter of the three(which is what i'd recommend if you don't want a sump), but one of my two recently gave out and i'm kinda bummed about it. It's got me paranoid that the other will give out soon, so not sure if i'll use that one on this tank. Not to mention the fact that mixing two different HOB's on the same tank kinda bugs me because the intakes look different. I'll also be using an XP3 canister to finish it off. I thought about using the XP3 as the return, but i'm not sure how well that would work, not very well i'm guessing. This setup is only gonna be temporary(not sure for how long though) and i will ultimately be going w/the sump(hopefully heavily planted to help w/nitrates) and a set of UGJ's to keep tank maintenance to a minimum.

I'm almost as excited as floyd is about the glass, but am kind of disappointed in how i did the silicone. I should've been more prepared, but i wasn't and ended up using two tubes of clear and two tubes of white. Stupidly i used the clear on the glass(where no one can see it) and used the white to do the other seams of the tank and it's alot uglier that i'd like. I'm not too worried about it as the whole tank is kind of fugly in various ways, but i guess i'll learn to live w/it...or build another one :wink:


----------



## TheFishGuy

floyd the oscar said:


> nice, whats rong with using a jigsaw? is that ply too thick? or am i totally off the subject?


It's much more difficult to make long straight cuts with a jigsaw then a circular saw. Jigsaws are for round cuts.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

I agree w/that, but i think i could've made striaghter cuts w/the jigsaw than i did w/the recip.


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## lomax

cant use a sump for a hospital tank, the hospital tank is so you can medicate a smaller volume of water to treat a fish. it is also used to medicate new fish so you do not add problems into the main tank.

if you use the sump then you need to mix for the total volume and that gets very expensive.

you are taking about a recovery tank or time out tank depending on whos doing the beating :lol:


----------



## imusuallyuseless

I suppose i consider the recovery tank/hospital the same thing. When i say this i'm not refering to infections or illnesses but rather battle wounds caused by aggression. Also, it's not like it's impossible to simply disconect the return pump and just make it two seperate systems if medicating is necessary. Anyway, the medicating thing depends on the situation for me. If only one fish is showing symptoms then i'll just remove that fish and medicate in one of my rubbermaid storage bins. But if two or more fish are showing symptoms i'd rather just medicate the entire tank anyway. I guess what you call a hospital tank, i call a quarentine tank. I don't like to use fish tanks for this anyway, because some medications can stain silicone or other object in the aquarium, that's why i just use the cheap rubbermaid tubs.

PS


----------



## TheFishGuy

Looking good, why isn't this finished yet???????


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Couple of reasons, the main one being that my girl's car radiator exploded and the alternator belt came off. I already replaced the radiator w/o any issues but i can't figure out how to do the alternator belt. Not only is fixing it taking up most of my time, it's also the car i use to get supplies such as the wood i need to finish up the stand. I'm also selling some of my tanks so i've been slowly breaking them down(and cleaning them) and trying to figure out where to house my displaced fish.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Excuses excuses... :roll: Just get it done.... Change the alternator and quit your crying :lol: Use a 1/2 drive socket wrench and pull on the tensioner pully, remove the belt, change the alternator and put the belt back on.... TODAY!


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Can't find the tensioner pully on this stupid 4 banger import. I've even had a friend come over that knows more about 4 bangers than i do and he couldn't do it either. I'm also debating how much wood i really need for the stand as everyone is saying paisley_tele's stand looks sufficient :-?


----------



## bell

what kind of car?


----------



## imusuallyuseless

99 mazda protege...to bad it's not a porshe :wink:


----------



## TheFishGuy

:lol: :lol:


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Anyone have any idea how many watts i'll be needing for my tank??? This'lll be my first DIY lighting attempt and i'm lost :-?


----------



## TheFishGuy

It's all in your own personal taste...


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Helpful as always 

Anyway, I've spent the last two nights painting the top and have just finished installing it. At this point i'm thinking the test fill will probably be sometime this afternoon or tomorrow, hoping no disasters occur


----------



## umnchuck

hope you have a bucket handy :lol:


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Well thanks jerk.


----------



## lomax

its always good to have a bucket around, a mop even 

just to be fair i had a bucket and mop ready with all my first tank fills, even the store bought ones.

only problem i ever had was filling the post and beam tank with the outside hose, it was cold out and the hose was very stif and would not stay in the tank. i got it stuck in and went to answer the phone and in 2 mins i had a very wet fishroom. i had both hot water coming from the inside and the outside hose running, i did this as it takes a very very long time to fill 750g from the insided sink.


----------



## illy-d

I also like to have a level handy when I fill all my tanks... I check the stand to make sure it is level of course, and then I check the top of the tank to make sure it is level... But as I fill my tanks I like to check the water line to ensure that it is level... I usually check at about 1/4 full, half full, and full....

Good luck and keep a camera handy to show us all how it looks!!!


----------



## dsiple

Umm, water is always level unless it is flowing.

Are you saying you check the tank level at 1/4, 1/2 and full?


----------



## bell

lomax said:


> i got it stuck in and went to answer the phone and in 2 mins i had a very wet fishroom. i had both hot water coming from the inside and the outside hose running, i did this as it takes a very very long time to fill 750g from the insided sink.


that happened to me once, and that was enough 
i now use a pistol grip type clamp to secure the hose in the tank. just don't clamp too tight 
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=46807

i have a few 22 gallon rubbermaids which i use for emergencies, when my 60 broke i was able to "catch" about 40-50 gallons before it hit the floor.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Oh man do I have stories... I could fill this whole page. Have any of you left the water running when refilling a tank after a water change? I do it almost every time I fill my 185 after a change :? Thank God the fish room has floor drains! :lol:


----------



## lomax

my kid once cooked one of my planted tanks. i was doing a 50% water change and she needed to clean her glass out and turned the water to all hot then turned the fill hose back on. I had full grown tetras and some cool rare amazon fish, only my talking catfish survived. the plants did ok just a bit of pruning, i never told her she offed the fish she was only 6 at the time.


----------



## Mcdaphnia

TheFishGuy said:


> Oh man do I have stories... I could fill this whole page. Have any of you left the water running when refilling a tank after a water change? I do it almost every time I fill my 185 after a change :? Thank God the fish room has floor drains! :lol:


 I could tell my wife it wasn't an accident. I was getting rid of that surface film.... I know some people add the shutoff hardware that goes in a toilet tank to the end of the fill hose.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

I've let it fill too high quite few times after water changes on the 100G. Never got water outside the tank, but the glass tops got all wet and so did the light. No harm done.

Anyway ladies, the tank is full and not a leak in sight 8)


----------



## chefkeith

Nice work. You built this tank faster than hot cakes. Now you have a plywood tank under your belt. Congrats.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Good job!!


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Thanks guys, i actually don't consider it very fast though. The tank and stand took me just short of 4 weeks to build. Had this been a glass tank like i'm used to, it would've been filled by the end of the first week. In any case i'm glad this portion of the project is done. I'm gonna be doing a fun little dance today known as the tank shuffle. My 100G is now in the spot where the new tank will go. I usually just start emptying the tank and move the occupants to the rubbermaid bins i have and then move the tank and refill and replace the fish, but unfortunately those bins are being used by the guys that used to be in my 90G. At this point the only solution i can see is to temporarily set up the 90G to temporarily house the guys from the 100G, but i'd really prefer not to do that. Does anyone have any suggestions to help me, other than buying more rubermaids???

Also thought i should share some pics of the soon-to-be occupants of this tank...
This is Vinny...








Jo...








Bart...








Temporarily unnamed(suggestions???)...








This is Buddy, he was suppossed to go in this tank as well, but he died yesterday : - (









PS chefkeith, care to send me something as a tank warming present :wink: Something like this should do...


----------



## lomax

alway glad to see water in the tank


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Well guys there's tanks and rubbermaids everywhere, but i'm slowly sorting it all out. Pretty slow going now as i haven't been to sleep yet. Anyway, i drained it from where it was on the porch and it's now filled in the living room. It was a pretty huge pita to move the 180G and 100G back and forth to get it into the right spot. The only real downer is that since i filled the tank w/the outside water hose, the temp is currently 68*. So far i've got two heaters in there and will probably add more in a few minutes. I'm wondering how long it'll take to raise the tank 10* Anyway, i've now got the 180G in the living room, the 100G in the dining room, the 90G on the back porch and the rubbermaids w/fish are in the hallway i originally started this project in. I'm off to bed now...

Elvis has left the building!


----------



## TheFishGuy

You can never have too many storage bins :lol: It shouldn't take long to heat the water up....


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

if you find out what the fish in pic 4 is PM me please.

looks similar to mine .

nice looking fish, and the tank dont look too bad eiter


----------



## Mcdaphnia

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:


> if you find out what the fish in pic 4 is PM me please.
> 
> looks similar to mine .
> 
> nice looking fish, and the tank dont look too bad eiter


The fish in photo #4 is dead.... I hope that is not the similarity your fish shares with it. Kind of looks like an immature chocolate cichlid, but the mouth looks maybe a little too pointy.


----------



## bell

the fish in #4 is a pretty young tiger oscar.....

how did it die?


----------



## BinaryWhisper

bell said:


> the fish in #4 is a pretty young tiger oscar.....
> 
> how did it die?


no that's the fish in pic 5 but it is the one that died, fish 4 looks a bit like a fire mouth but its not.


----------



## bell

ok i can't count


----------



## imusuallyuseless

> It shouldn't take long to heat the water up....


It's been at least 8 hours and the water is barely at 74*. Clearly i don't have enough wattage in there :? 


> if you find out what the fish in pic 4 is PM me please.


It actually is a firemouth, just kind of low quality. Also the flash and bright'ish lighting i had on the tank at the time washed out it's color. It's typically a bit darker w/the red more visable. Your may be a firemouth as well, or something listed here...
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=44 
If none of those, then perhaps it's a firecon. Feel free to post a pic so we can get a better idea.

Anyway, that's kind of an old pic, so i'll try to take a new one that more accurately shows it's colors.

Anyway, glad that the counting issues have been sorted out :lol: As said before the fish in pic 4 is a firemouth. The fish in pic five was my much loved baby tiger oscar. That pic was taken at ~2 1/2", but he ultimately died at ~4 1/2"-5". I'm not sure the exact cause of his death. He was always a bit sickly. At around 3 1/2" i noticed it missing some scales near the lower portion of his body. I figured it was either fighting(doubtful he was the biggest) or scraping something, but couldn't figure out what. Anyway, i did 20% daily water changes for a week or so then treated w/melafix and did another set of daily water changes. He seemed to heal for a while and grew like a weed after that. Then it came back, did the same thing and he healed again. I've had that battle off and on since i've had him. Never figured out what it was, and none of my fish ever showed any symptoms either. Then almost two months ago i added a few more firemouths to the tank w/o QT(huge mistake). The new arrivals started dropping like flies and one of them gotten eaten by my larger one and he died as well. All told i lost most of my firemouths due to this mystery illness. I believed that it was columaris(sp?) due to the swollen lips, but i was told it couldn't be because it would've wiped out all my fish. Anyway, the oscar didn't show the same symptom as the firemouths, but after that the missing scales came back and i could never fix it again. Anyway, i've been moving tanks around for the last week so the occupants of the 90G were put in rubbermaids so i figured it was a good oportunity to QT the O and medicate him. As i said i'm not sure what caused his death. It could've been the stress from moving him, or the medication or he could've simply given in to whatever originally caused the scales to fall of. Anyway, it wasn't a water quality issue, as i'm vigilant about my water changes and like i said none of my other fish ever showed symptoms like he had. There was the incident w/the firemouths but i truly feel that was unrelated having been new arrivals. The crappy thing is that i built my 90G specifically for him, and built the 180g so i could introduce him w/the other O, now he's gone.

Anyway, i'll be adding more heaters now so i can hopefully get them into the new tank tonight.


----------



## TheFishGuy

How's about some fresh pics??????????


----------



## imusuallyuseless

The fish are all in, but i'm starting to freak out. After i put them in the new tank i sat there watching them for a long time and discovered my large oscar is now missing the scales from the same spot my smaller one was...
















Anyone got any ideas about this??? Ammo & nitrItes are both at 0, nitrAtes are between 10-20 and PH is between 7.0 and 7.2. He's eating and swimming fine, but i'm now concerned this problem may progress like it did w/the other one :?

Anyway, here's updated pics:
W/the flash...








W/o the flash, but lit w/the little 28" light strip...








Lunch anyone??? I'm amazed this O didn't even take a shot at any of these BA tetras...








Check out the red belly on that Crenicichla sp. "Xingu I" ...








Here's my C. Azureus...








Size difference...








the sev actually has more red spots/darker stripes than what the pic shows but the flash washed it out...








And the true badasses of this tank, Buenos Aires Tetras...








These guys really are fearless or stupid :lol: :lol: :lol:

Couldn't get a new pic of the FM as it hides too much.

I think i definately need better lighting as the 28" provides dim lighting even though there's no other lights on in that pic. If there were other lights on, i doubt you could see into the tank at all. Still no suggestions on how much wattage i'd need as far as lighting??? Also thinking about a JD or Geos, but this new worry w/the O will probably halt any plans for more additions.


----------



## illy-d

I think it looks good with the 28" light... I like how there are shadowy patches at either end...

Good job!

Also, I noticed you have the heaters off to the sides in the corners... It may give you better/quicker/more accurate temperature control if they were placed in an area with greater circulation??? Maybe next to the filter intakes? I have no idea really...


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## imusuallyuseless

Thanks. I actually like the darker patches at either end as well, but i still want a bit more lighting. At this point i'm going to be using a 4' strip, which is all i could use, so i should still have a bit of the shadows on either end, but still be able to see a bit better in the middle. Just not sure if i should get a single tube or double tube, or even what bulb would look best....i'm clueless 

As for the heat thing, once i got the temp up to 76* i just put the fish in. I couldn't wait, and they were all pouting like i've never seen before, so i really didn't want to keep them in the rubbermaids much longer. Anyway, it really started to heat up quickly once i turned on the heater in the house as well as adding both the HOB filters and a water pump. It's now holding steady at 80*.

After staring at it for a while last night, it looks too small  Really wish i would've made a 240G instead, but it just wasn't practical. I'm also unsure whether i like my full plywood top or not. I'm pretty sure it's helped to heat the tank faster and will cut down on evaporation, but my brief attempt at aquascaping has shown me how difficult maintence or catching fish could be. It also makes feeding a bit akward as i have to basicly put the food in where the water comes out of the filter, which sucks because there's a little whirlpool thing going on and most of the food never makes it to the center of the tank :?

Anywhoooo, at least we now know what to do w/55G's when you realize that they're really not that useful in keeping larger cichlids 8)


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## TheFishGuy

Nice job... As far as what buld you want.... you want plant grow lite flo bulbs. they're a bit expensive but well worth it imho....


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## Al'Thor

Nice job! I really like the shadow ends as well. I may have to dismantle my dining room table and make a tank with my 'spare glass' as you suggested.  Is the top something you may consider changing or is this going to be the finished product? I hope it still allows you to continue the water change schedule I designed for you(including Sunday's.)  Did you learn anything in particular on this project that you would change if you make another?

Even though you abandoned the sacrificial alter stand, I think you did a great job! :wink:

About that pic with the missing scales.....is it me or does that look like a heater burn? It's in an odd place on him. Has he been flashing at all?


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## imusuallyuseless

The oscar has been acting completely normally, no flashing what so ever. It is an odd place, but i doubt it's the heater. That is the exact spot that my dead O had it as well. On my smaller O, it was there on and off for months and really wasn't that noticable. In the last week or two of it's life it started spreading upward on it's body :? It's really concerning as the only health problems i've ever heard of regarding O's was HITH, which you can clearly see isn't the problem.

As for your dinding room table, do it, really not that hard to make a tank, just time consuming. Besides who eats at the dining room table these days anyway :wink:

I am not going to be changing the top. I haven't decided how much i really like it or not, but even if i don't i won't change it. I feel changing it would cause more of a pain than what it's worth, not to mention that it's already fully stocked and i've sold one of my smaller tanks, that housed some of the occupants of this tank, so they'd have nowhere to go when this top changing would take place. The top is pretty much finished although i may have to add a hinge to the glass where the light goes as i'll probably have to be feeding from there and i'd rather be able to lift it on the hinge rather than sliding it. The top will still allow me to change the water and do tank maintenance, it's just going to be a pain. One reason is because the hole i have isn't very big(~46"x10") it's fine front to back and in the center obviously, but to reach into the far back corner will be hard because It's about 16" from the side of the hole opening to the side of the tank wall. The other reason is that i built the stand rather tall as i was anticipating having the 23" tall 100G built into the bottom of the stand as well. The top of that tank and stand comes up to my sholder so if i'm standing on the floor level then i can only really get my hand a few inches into the water. At this point i still kind of like the top as i believe it will really cut down on evaporation.

As for anything i learned that would change if i made another, that depends. This project has been great as far as costs are concerned, but the issue of longterm durability is a concern. That could've been solved w/more money if i went w/epoxy, but that would've also necessitated that i painted this thing outside, which wouldn't have been fun as i did most of my work at night, when it's like 30* outside. I could've done the hardiboard/drylock method like TFG but that would've added more weight which is a concern as i usually have to move my tanks by myself. That being said if we're talking the exact same circumstances w/budget, materials and time, then the only things i'd really change would be to try the plunge cut on the front frame so it came out straighter & make the stand shorter for maintenance purposes...although the current stand would allow me to put two 29G's underneath w/room to spare...anyone wanna donate one or two???

Anyway, if we're talking about a bigger budget w/more time, then there are a few things i'd do differently. One is that i'd wait til the summer so i could do epoxy outside w/o any problems. two, i would've used 'appropriately' sized glass. This would've allowed me to set it on the floor of the tank, and the wasted viewing spac at the bottom & those two partitions wouldn't have been necessary. Using the taller glass i probably would've also set the top inside the walls instead of on top, but i didn't think that was a good idea on this tank. I probably would've still done almost a complete plywood top as i think the smaller bracing would look ugly. The other things i would've done would be to wait til i had money for the sump return and ugj pumps before putting this tank into commision. The last thing, that i'm still planning for this tank as soon as time/money allow is to line the outside of the tank w/styro for even better temperature control. Around that styro i would've glued a sheet of 1/4" thick luan w/a high gloss wood stain. Lastly i'll be using wood trim similar to that used on my 90G to trim out the windows to make it straight as well as the seams where the luan will meet on the front/back/sides. As well as finishing off the stand in a similar manner. I'll be doing this styro/luan thing as soon as the girlie's car is back so i can get the supplies.

When can we expect to see the thread w/your little dining table???


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## imusuallyuseless

I'm also planning to ressurect my little aztec'ish styro/concrete temple, so look for that in a week or two.


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## TheFishGuy




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## imusuallyuseless

TheFishGuy said:


>


Which part???


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## Al'Thor

imusuallyuseless said:


> When can we expect to see the thread w/your little dining table???


Well, here's the deal. I just got approved for a home loan(apparently they'll give these things to ANYONE!







) I'm hoping to close on a house March 1st, so maybe I'll need a new dining room table? :lol:

But seriously, opportunities may present themselves. And since the girlfriend and I have called it quits, I may need to spend some money on other things...... :wink: Maybe and nice sump system in the basement for all my tanks? Hummmmm! I like the sound of that...Of course, I may be so tapped I can't afford fish food too.  Who knows.


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## imusuallyuseless

Glad to see you got the priorities in order :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though what are the dimensions of this table???


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## bell

......hows the tank holding up iuu


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## imusuallyuseless

The tank is fine, not a leak in sight. Only real thing is the stand isn't completely level and so neither is the water. I suppose that's what i get for rushing to finish the stand and get this thing filled. You can't really tell, unless the water is too low, but it still bugs me. Anyway, the tank itself is good, and i'm quite impressed w/myself, but I don't really like it anymore(fish aren't cooperating) so i'm now trying to sell it. I built the stand high enough to house my 100G tank underneath. Unfortunately the placement of the tank & furniture makes having the 100G underneath impossible. So basicly i have an excessively tall stand for no reason. This makes cleaning the tank a huge PITA. I'm really hoping i can sell it and make two smaller tanks, but if i can't, i'll definately be redoing the stand to make it shorter and level :?


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## FiremouthShogun

This is a great post...an entire beers length and then some.

So what did you do with the tank ?


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## imusuallyuseless

Glad you enjoyed the read. I actually still have the tank in use, but a few small things have changed. I did try to sell it at one point for $150, but there were no takers, which isn't that suprising to me. I did however sell a bunch of other tanks, which forced me to keep this thing in operation. I ended up selling two 10G's, one 20L, one 29G, one 55G, one 90G & the 100G mentioned in my previous post. Some were empty, but the fish that were in the occupied ones had to end up being thrown in the 180G. I've also had a couple of untimely deaths(including the pike), which really sucked, but it did help w/the stocking situation a bit, as the only one not torrmented by the pike was the larger oscar. You can now see the current stock list in my signature. Once i finish up the current 75G & 35G plywood tanks, i'll likely be moving fish around some more. Oscar, Green Severum, C. Azureus & Yellow Lab will likely be moving into the new 75G, while my Uros will probably move out of the 44G and into the 180G. That'll free up the 44G for the pair of pink cons to move out of the 10G, and the final 35G will likely house both my firemouths and extra pink female con...unless i get lucky and come into some money, then that tank will house a breeding pair or two of A. cutteri or possibly nics.

Anywhoo, there were changes made to the tank itself. I never went ahead w/my plan to make the outside nicer, but I did remedy the two issues that were making cleanings such a PITA. Besides the small top access making cleaning a pain, i was also using a large piece of glass for a top to cut down on evaporation. It worked great and w/the almost full plywood top heating was easy as well...problem was condensation started building up between the top piece of glass and the wood top. I ended up growing a pretty disgusting mold patch on much of the top. Before i sold off most of my tanks i crammed a ton of fish into the 100G and completely emptied the 180G. The tank then sat empty in my garage for at least a month(which is when the many deaths occured) because of an injury i sustained. Once i had the strength to get it off the stand and onto the floor, i removed the entire top. I then used the trusty circular to cut four braces out of this top. After a month the entire top was completely dry, so i just sanded off all the mold and repainted all braces, that were to go back on. I screwed the end pieces back into place, and marked out new spots for the two other braces. Instead of the two access cuts in the back, and single large one in the center of the top, i now have three 16-17" wide areas that go from front to back. This makes cleaning and catching fish ALOT easier, and i can now run 3 HOB's if i choose to, instead of the two i limited myself to w/the other top. I had to end up using an even larger piece of glass + eggcrate to accomidate the larger open areas, but it's been working quite well for the last few months. Only problem is that i now need that glass for the front piece of my new 75G, so i'm taking apart some acryllic tanks that petsmart threw out, to use as my new tops for the 180G.

The other problem i mentioned was the height of the stand...
After i fixed the top i put the tank back on the stand and refilled it. The new larger access holes were great, but it was still way too tall. So i drained the tank again and almost completely dismantled the stand. I didn't want the tank sitting on the floor, so i kept the top 2x4 frame intact. Instead of having the tank sitting on a 31"H stand, it is now sitting on a 3.5"H 2x4 platform in my mom's dining room. The new extremely short height allows it to fit pretty well under the bar area between kitchen and dining room. As you can imagine cleaning the tank no longer requires a stool, although gravity fed siphon is alot slower now :wink:

Anywhoo, the tank itself seems to be holding up ok, which suprises me, considering i've already moved it like 6 times. Even still i don't imagine it'll last too much longer, so when it does start to show signs of leaking, i think i'll just drain it and buy a pond liner, since w/all the fish i have i'll likely still need the tank up and running even if i'll then be only limited to top views of the fish.

On a final note I'm actually legal now. I turned 21 a week ago today


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## yellow

well happy birthday then, hehe in Europe you can drink at 18 or 16 sometimes ( usually in restaurant with family) Or 15 in the right bar.
Actually this is a very good thread, just reread it all from the start. I think i may have to copy your idea of taking a 55 apart to make a bigger tank when i go back to Ireland in September. Sold my own tank today in advance for â‚¬500 so i will have some cash to spend.


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## imusuallyuseless

It's never really been a huge deal, as i only live ~10 minutes away from mexico where it's legal to drink @ 18. Not only that, but my girlfriend is a bit older than me :wink:

Anyway, i'm glad you enjoyed the thread and can possibly use some of the info in here. I was actually considering taking apart the 29G to make a 5' or 7' tank, but i just never got around to it before i sold it. I think taking apart glass tanks is an excellent way to source cheap glass for a DIY plywood tank, if you don't mind reducing the viewing area a bit. Just as a side note, the glass for the new 75G i'm making is actually the last remaining(back piece) of the 55G that was used to make the 180G, so i'm actually making two tanks out of one 55G


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## imusuallyuseless

Just an update:

After a year in service the tank has been taken down. I finished emptying it last night  No signs of leakage anywhere, but it was only a year so i could hardly call it proof that drylok directly on plywood is a good method to use for a tank that is meant for long-term use.


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## imusuallyuseless

...and it's new owner just picked it up. Going to be using it for a snake though...


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## illy-d

I can't believe that year flew by so quickly... I remember checking this thread on a near daily basis watching it progress...

I spend way tooo much time here...


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## imusuallyuseless

I know. That year did go by VERY quickly. I used to spend WAY too much time here as well. Getting a crappy job that keeps me working all the time has fixed that for me though :lol: :lol: :lol: I actually still have a 75G and a 35G plywood tank that have been sitting unsealed for several months now. Don't know if I'll ever get the chance to finish them :? As you can see from my sig I'll probably be out of the hobby for a bit, but I am moving closer to lomax so we'll see if anything crazy comes of that :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## mepeterser2451

hey remember me? great to read your post. i'm finally finishing that tank i started once i get out of school in a week, same exact thing you did with a 55gal. so you saying drylock on plywood worked ok? Did you notice any cracks or dents after a while? or should i go plywood/hardipanel/drylock?


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## Mlitt12345

I read at MFK about a liquid rubber product that bonds to plywood very well, looks very promising I believe its called permi-dri


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## bntbrl

http://www.permadri.com/pond-coat.html Heres a pond version they make...


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## mepeterser2451

Mlitt12345 said:


> I read at MFK about a liquid rubber product that bonds to plywood very well, looks very promising I believe its called permi-dri


sweet tthanks ill look into it.


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## mepeterser2451

looks ok but the pH is between 10-12.


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## imusuallyuseless

mepeterser2451 said:


> hey remember me? great to read your post. i'm finally finishing that tank i started once i get out of school in a week, same exact thing you did with a 55gal. so you saying drylock on plywood worked ok? Did you notice any cracks or dents after a while? or should i go plywood/hardipanel/drylock?


It worked ok for the year I had it up. I noticed no leaks or dents. The only place there were cracks is in the corners when the drylok was initially applied. I guess it expands or something as it hardens. In any case all of my seams were covered in silicone so I had no issues there. It was a fine tank and I would love to have kept it in service, but I moved across the state. I filled, drained and moved it many times w/no noticeable issues, but there's no real way to determine exactly how long the drylok directly on plywood would have lasted. I seem to remember TFG telling me that his lasted under two years, but I can't recall if his were constructed exactly the same as mine.

In any case I'm actually leaning toward sweet water epoxy when I do my next one because it'll be around 400G and I hope to keep it in service for as long as possible. Haven't started to build yet, but the basic plan is 8'Lx4'Wx2'H. Pretty similar design, but I'll be using glass from a 135G I have in storage.

Anyway, thanks for checking in :thumb:


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## mepeterser2451

i don't think 100gal will be worth getting the hardipanel too. I think i'll try your route and see how long drylock lasts on plywood. Two years sounds ok to me.


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