# What do fish do when you're not watching them?



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

As soon as I walk up to my tank, all my fish come out from hiding and stare at me in anticipation (foood!!!). I often sneak up on them to see what they're up to, and usually they're not swimming around...just sort of sitting there, usually near the bottom of the tank. Is this what fish do? Are my fish unhappy? (is this a stupid question?)...

I know someone will ask...so here's more info:

40G tank
pH: 7.0
ammonia: 0
nitrites <0.1
nitrates: ~10-15

Fish:
1 Juvie Severum
2 juvie angels
1 kribensis
1 juvie satanoperca daemon

What do your fish do when you're not watching them?


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Throw wild parties, steal cars , and conspire to turn the dog against me. Other than that , they usually swim , dig , case each other a bit , whatever strikes their fancy at the moment. True fish aren't alway very active but they have their busy times .


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## Desi&lt;3 (Feb 13, 2008)

Mine are forever changing the decor around - bugs me to death


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Maybe you don't have enough surface aggitation and the oxygen levels are a bit low. That can definately lead to lethargic fish. Maybe the temps a bit low reducing their metabolism and their activity level. Juvie cichlids can be shy , but they shouldn't just be sitting there.

Maybe try upping the temp a bit and add some extra surface movement for the water(air stone or small power head ) and see if that helps. Also you might reduce their food a little. If they are a little hungry and will go looking for food ,and they'll move around a bit more .


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Desi<3 said:


> Mine are forever changing the decor around - bugs me to death


LOL... I forgot about that! My severum uproots ALL of my plants daily.


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Joels fish: Thanks for the advice; I suspected that as well, so I added an AC 30 air pump. The temperature is at 81... I thought that seemed right. Too high maybe?

Is the air pump enough to ensure enough surface agitation? I've been worried about oxygen levels, because it seems that my Sev's gill plates are moving back and forth at a much larger amplitude than before. His mouth is also open more often than usual. I don't think I'm being paranoid!


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

I think as long as it's moving water it's fine, but a power head will move more. How much water do you change weekly? Kinda sounds like a water quality issue.


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

I change 40% twice per week!


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Sorry If I sent the wrong message by that, just trying to rule a few things out is all  .

Have you checked for parasites (gill flukes , ich, ect) ? The big problem is that any number of things can cause the symptoms your describing. As you can see it makes it a PITA to trouble shoot things sometimes. Is it just the sev, or do the others do this as well? Another question is who's new, and were they quarantined before they were introduced?


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## Lostlilkidd (Jan 27, 2009)

The conspire just like Stewie!


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Joels fish said:


> Sorry If I sent the wrong message by that, just trying to rule a few things out is all  .
> 
> Have you checked for parasites (gill flukes , ich, ect) ? The big problem is that any number of things can cause the symptoms your describing. As you can see it makes it a PITA to trouble shoot things sometimes. Is it just the sev, or do the others do this as well? Another question is who's new, and were they quarantined before they were introduced?


I really appreciate your help! From what I've noticed, it's only the Severum doing this. His poop looks great, and his overall condition seems to be wonderful. He eats like a pig, as always. I don't SEE any Ich. I don't know what gill flukes are... The only new addition (2 weeks ago) is my Satanoperca daemon, and he's doing really well. I can imagine that you're going to roll your eyes when I say this, but my LFS quarantines fish for at least 2 weeks before selling them. In addition, this particular fish had been "on display" for at least a month before I bought him. He and some Geos had their own tank (they all arrived together). I don't have a QT tank at home!

This picture of my Sev is from last week. I don't know if it helps any, but I'll show off my pride and joy any chance I get!










Thanks again!

For anyone else who's reading this thread, what do your fish do when you're not looking? I'm curious to see what kind of responses we get!


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Ohhh, one more thing. The tank has been running for only one week, but I used media from my old tank and ammonia and nitrites have been at zero all week.

I used fluorite as a substrate and my tank is still quite cloudy from the dust.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Well that's likely the culprit then. The fluorite particles (fine as they are) may be irritating his gills. It's a bit like working in a very dusty area without a dust mask would be to us. won't bother the geo much since by their nature they sift "dirt" through their gills. I am a bit surprised that the Angels and krib aren't showing the same symptoms though. Well that's a good thing though. keep an eye on the params though since the tank is new but it sounds like you've got a good handle on it. Next time you might want to wash your substrate material a little better though to keep the dust to a minimum. just keep up the water changes and it'll clear up :thumb: . Oh , and very nice Sev btw.


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

I'll do a WC today then  I washed the fluorite for a little over an hour.... It looked like it wasn't going to get any cleaner. That stuff is a PITA, but it looks great.

Anyone else? Do your fish do strange things when you're not watching them? Have you ever thought it was one fish eating your dithers....but then caught another fish in the act?


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

Plenty of room? Any territoriality going on?

-Ryan


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

He's the biggest fish in the tank (5"), and I don't see that much territoriality. He chases a fish or two, but no fin nipping EVER (quite the peaceful tank), and nobody would dare chase him!

As for whether or not there's enough room...I don't know! I was curious about that myself.

1 5" Sev (total length)
2 very small angels 
1 satanoperca daemon (<4")
and a female krib

40 gallons (temporary, and I posted a thread about how long this tank would be good for, but I didn't get any answers. 3 months? 6 months? 9 months?)

My sev is shaking his head a bit.... After some research, it seems that people would suspect gill flukes. I'm a veterinary technician part-time, and I happen to have some fenbendazole at home. I'm going to try that since it's an extremely safe drug. Plus, this drug would wipe out a whole bunch of other things, including velvet and camallanus  Who knows, right?

Thanks RyanR, Joels fish :fish:


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Well at the risk of sounding negative, Before trying it I'd see if it's the same stuff in the commercial remedies for that illness. I know the stuff your talking about and have it myself , but it's for internal parasites as far as I know. Gill flukes are still considered external parasites.I'm not sure how effective it would be for that type of parasite. Could it hurt , probably not and any internal worms the fish might be harboring would get the hammer. But I'd try a more specific remedy first.

PS Fish do sometimes shake their heads and breath heavy with water clouded by fine dust. I've seen it several times. won't hurt to treat them, but I'd wait just a bit to make sure that it's flukes and not just dust first.


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

The only reason I used fenbendazole is because I saw an article (link was given on a thread on this site) written by some PhD dude who observed a complete wipe out of gill flukes after using the med. Anecdotal evidence..lol

I won't have time to go to my LFS before Thursday (if it were an emergency, i'd go sooner). I'll see what happens between now and then (maybe the dust will settle?) and i'll pick up some PraziPro or Jungle something or other.

Sunny Delight (my sev!!) gets especially "out of breath" during feeding. I guess he's too busy wolfing down all the food. I hope he's ok! I'm SO SO SO attached to this fish.

I'll update when I notice anything of interest


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Good luck :thumb: . I've used the fenbendazole to clear up a nasty case of camallanus , and the fish were much more energetic after treatment than before. One of the beneficial side effects that the article I read detailed. They didn't seem very bothered by the parasite , but were deffinately much more vibrant after the treatment. Like I said , good stuff.


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

I don't know if it was dust or something else, but he's surely better! No more head shaking, although he still sometimes does this thing with his mouth...I don't know if i'd call it coughing or what, but it looks like he's trying to spit something out. Anyway, I'm going to continue with the fenbendazole just in case :thumb:

I don't know what camallanus looks like exactly, but some of my fish have these red needle looking things protruding from their butts.... Is that camallanus? If so, I guess they're dying off. If not, then I have no idea what that is. Doesn't look like the pictures I saw online, and they're really tiny red things.

Anyway, from now on, no news is good news 

Still trying to spy on my fish. What do they do all day!?


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Isis24 said:


> I don't know if it was dust or something else, but he's surely better! No more head shaking, although he still sometimes does this thing with his mouth...I don't know if i'd call it coughing or what, but it looks like he's trying to spit something out. Anyway, I'm going to continue with the fenbendazole just in case :thumb:
> 
> I don't know what camallanus looks like exactly, but some of my fish have these red needle looking things protruding from their butts.... Is that camallanus? If so, I guess they're dying off. If not, then I have no idea what that is. Doesn't look like the pictures I saw online, and they're really tiny red things.
> 
> ...


 Sounds like camallanus to me. That's exactly what my Firemouths had, little reddish wormy lookin' things coming out of the vent. Here is a link to help you out a little with the dosing . you may have seen this already but it's good info and getting it back out to the good people here can't hurt. here is the link http://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/levamisole-hydrochloride-1 I'm pretty sure that fenbendazole is another trade name for levamisole, if not then it's easy enough for you to get I'm sure. If not then it's always good to have another weapon in the ol' anti parasite arsenal.


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## Denny (Sep 27, 2008)

Click on the image and watch them for me.
http://s435.photobucket.com/albums/qq79 ... eo6oct.flv


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