# Mysterious deaths need help!



## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

Found 3 days ago one of my african died just floating and i dunno why, so i paid more attention the following next 3 days and i found this orange fish acting all wierd the night before then the next day i just found all the other fish int he tank around this one and it was moving upside down and stuff and i recorded in my phone to ask why is this happening?

yes i do change the water every 2 weeks and the filters too.

its a 75g fyi.

please i need help to prevent more deaths 

heres a sad link 
www-youtube-com/watch?v=YSpAev9hIck


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

there were 2 more videos, didn't know i had into 3 different sections but if that helps, why it suddenly dies?
1/3 = www-youtube-com/watch?v=f2e9dFINxF4
2/3 = www-youtube-com/watch?v=iCvr8adTnUk
3/3 = www-youtube-com/watch?v=YSpAev9hIck


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

You should give more info:
How long has the tank been setup?
What is the stock list of the tank?
What are the water specs like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH....?
What you feed and how often?
Any new additions to the tank before the deaths?


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

So after changing your dashes to periods I saw the videos.
Hard to tell if the fish was upside down or the camera.

That looks like swim bladder issue which is not a good thing.
Have you considered putting it in quarantine?
Those tank mates are aggressive and will tear it appart especially when you aren't there.
How are the aggression levels in that tank?


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

yea dashes to periods because i dont' have 5 posts yet to post any links sorry 

How long has the tank been setup? 
-since december of 09, fish added in 5 of january of 2010
then 3 died from auratus aggressiveness and then took out all my auratus so its mostly calm no

What is the stock list of the tank? 
not sure what they are but from what i've googled and lookalike AND that is what is left right now(CURRENT)

i got pics if necessary to identify them
tinyurl-com/2c5slgs - 3 red zebras
tinyurl-com/2cg4rwj - 3 yellow labs
tinyurl-com/265l8u8 - 3 grey(don't know the name) some sort of peacock i think
tinyurl-com/2capvhf - 2 of that orange, that 3rd one died on that cam.
tinyurl-com/2ddlgb4 - 3 tetras(red minders)
tinyurl-com/257qmg2 - Common pleco, removed it to a seperate tank the night before i saw that orange fish acting wierd. because it was hanging out in the skull where that orange fish that died "terrotorized?" i think and maybe i dunno just incase if it was harrasin it but took it out just incase.

What are the water specs like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH....? 
-i can't find mytesting slips, but untill then here is the other info, i'll get it asap
What you feed and how often? 
-once in the morning when i wake up and once before i goto sleep.

Any new additions to the tank before the deaths?
-no, was plannin on getting more, like 2 of each and acei too but with this 2 recent death for the last week, i dunno.

and the aggressiveness. after takin out all the auratus, it calmed down so much, i see some chases but not as aggressive as the auratus but not regularly though.
the red zebras brooded eggs like 3 times and lost it don't know why maybe it still need more practice? the yellow labs did it once also lost it dunno what happen. and one of the range too did brooded once but lost it too. dunno if that helps.

mmh one more thing i needed to know if i needed any more decore for them to hide? and i was kinda aiming for 25-30 fish in that 75g after solving this death issue.

pic of the tank
tinyurl-com/24qwaeo


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

3 of my fish died today and i decided to change the water, then suddenly all of them acted all wierd and started to flip over and stuff. pretty much how a high/drunk person would be.
i was looking at their fins and it was getting so red like a vein was about to pop, i got it on cam but it wasn't clear enough and i'll be posting the video as soon i get it uploaded.

anyway i transfered into my smaller tank which is i think 5g, and in about 5 minutes they all were fine except one looks like he is really badly hurt but he is still fightin to stay up... and about 10 more minutes the red veins around their side fins was gone, so i'm assumin there has to be something wrong in my 75g itself maybe i need to quarantine or something i need suggestions.

thnx in advance  plz help


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## Malawidolphin (Dec 15, 2006)

When you did your water change did you add dechlorinateror? Sounds like chlorine poisoning when it comes on that suddenly. The other deaths sound like water quality issues. I bet if you teted your water you would probably find the reason. Without testing your water you can't really solve the problem that hasn't been identified. My money is on an amonnia/nitrite spike.


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

today's reading

75g hasno fish atm)

Nitrate:160-200
Nitrite:0-.5
Hardness:150
Chlorine:0
Alkalinity:40
pH:7.2

tank where i transfered to, which is temporary on a 5g

Nitrate:20-40
Nitrite:3.5-5.0
Hardness:75
Chlorine:0
Alkalinity:40
pH:7.2

safe to transfer back? to 75g?


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

The 75 gallon needs some serious water changing.
I'm talking some large ones and multiple.
The nitrate should be around 40 or less.

The 5 gallon is poison right now.
Nitrite is way too high and you need to do a water change to get that down.
Add a detox product like amquel+ or prime.
Or get them back into the 75 gallon after a 50-75% water change.


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

yesterday i just changed 50% of the water... changing 75% today. (filter was still running so) alright lets see.

ok so...
-so anything that gets high, it needs a water change pretty much?
-my water is from the well i think so it nvr has chlorine, should i still use conditioner?
-and when u mean by water change to reduce it, u mean like actually takin all decor out and sucking all around the gravel? or just change water from the top? and just add.
-and what about the filter? when do i change it and clean it?


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

Water is changed to reduce the nitrate level, which is our main indicator of water quality.
Shoot for a 20 ppm or less as good water quality.
As it creeps to 40 or higher you should change water.
If you test to see how long it takes to get to this level you can then figure out how much and how often you should be doing this.

If you don't have chlorine you don't need dechlor but if you have ammonia or nitrite you should detox it which some dechlor products do.

If the tank is dirty and you can see waste you should remove it as you are removing water.
Sometimes you need to remove decor to really get in there and do a thorough cleaning.

Filters usually have multiple stages to them.
They have mechanical media which pulls the waste and suspends it the medium.
This clogs up and reduces filter performance so it should get cleaned whenever there is noticable buildup.
You can rinse it in tank water or tap water, there is no harm, just get it clean.

Chemical media isn't usually needed but most filters have it.
It is for the adsorbtion of tannins and medications but not required for continual use.

Then there is biological.
This is something you really should never replace.
It should be your last line of media so it doesn't get diry and inhibit its performance.
Rinse this in tank water gently only when necessary.

Hope this helps as a starting point.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

It does sound like a water quality issue. Here's one possible scenario: If you didn't do water changes for a period of time then your ph will drop. Any ammonia present in the tank will be converted to a non-toxic form at the lower ph level. The problem occurs when you do a water change which typically raises the ph. The ammonia suddenly converts to the toxic form and the fish will show the typical signs of ammonia poisoning. Up at the top gasping, red streaks, etc.

Even though you have well water you want to have a good quality dechlorinator on hand to help in situations like this. Something like Seachem's Prime or Amquel Plus will remove ammonia and detoxify nitrite.

Get a good test kit: one that uses test tube and liquid rather than the test strip kind. Once you put fish back in you're going to want to monitor the 75 gallon's water parameter daily/every other day for the next month. Do daily or every other day partial water changes of 30% for the first week. If you've got more than 3 inches of gravel you might consider removing some. Gravel is pretty but it holds onto waste and that makes it harder to keep your water quality good. 
Feed the fish only once a day and give them only as much food as they can eat in less than a minute.

Robin
Sorry for the loss of your fish. We should be able to get you through this and back into a healthy tank


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

thnx in advance guise!

well they are right now in a 5g and changing the water everyday about 15-20%. would they not stress out for over crowded? i mean 13 fishes?

doing another WC on that 75g today about 30%. i'll post readings by tonight and let me if its safe to transfer back.

oh yea with a pH test tube, how can i tell whats the nitrate and nitrite lvl i mean would i just see if its hanging around 7.0? or should i get a testing tube for nitrate and nitrite too?


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

13 fish in a 5 gallon is unacceptable.
There just isn't enough space and water for the fishes.
If you want to do something do a large water change on the 75 gallon and get them back in there.
I'm not sure what you are asking about the test tubes.


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

ok 75g is at

Nitrate:40ish + 
Nitrite:0 maybe little to .5 but looks white to me on that test
Hardness:75 
Chlorine:0 
Alkalinity:0-40 
pH:6.2-6.4 

transfer fish now? or wait till pH gets closer to 7?


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## LSBoost (Jan 21, 2010)

Do you have ammonia reading on that tank? Do another 50% water change to get nitrate down to 20ppm. If you confirm that ammonia and nitrite is at 0 then it is safe to transfer the fish after the water change. Don't forget to check the temperature.

BTW to get an understanding of what most of us are trying to do. Read this article.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Have you tested your well water's ph before you add it to the tank? Let it sit overnight before you do. 
I think you'd do well to get a new test kit. The tank ph was at 7.2 yesterday but 6.4 today--doesn't make sense.

Robin


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

i did another test and it was sitting at 7.0 

and they all seem fine and being more active now, specially the males.

ok so after readin that Nitrogen Cycle, i kinda got the idea. i think i need to get the master kit for the nitrite reading. alright so ideally when can i start doing WC every week or 2 weeks? right now i'll do the every other day with 15-20% WC?


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## Dj823cichild (Mar 30, 2009)

Yeah I was just reading this post and I got to this page after you posted all your tests and I was like umm where is the ammonia test? Your ammonia should be zero, along with your nitrite and then your nitrAte will begin to rise and be the highest and you will then know your fully cycled! I wish you the best of luck. Test for ammonia please!!!!!!


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

i will get to that asap, quick question they seem to be chasing each other alot and i read some article where if they were in crowded tank they are easily to get away or lose the chase, so now i have 13 left and 6 of them are tetras would they not kill each other? cuz there is no croded areas anymore


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

ok i got the master kit and its sitting at

Amonnia is at .25
Nitrite is 0
pH 6.8
Nitrate is between 0 - 5.0 cuz the color seems too close

so assumin its not at full cycle yet? tryin to get that nitrogen cycle thing

and does pleco annoys my cichlids? cuz he gets into their "claimed" spots and won't move lol


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

been testing for almost a week now
it looks good well asummin it is, fish lookin active and stuff ,
pH still hanging around 7.0
Ammonia is at 0
Nitrite is at 0
Nitrate is at 0

decided to test my well water, and it was at
pH 6.0 or less really bright yellow
Ammonia is at 2.0 - 4.0 ppm
Nitrite is at 0 0 .25 ppm
Nitrate is between 0 - 5.0

so i think that was the problem since the beginning that when i do WC, it was directly from the faucet to the tank. 
and i'm afraid to do any WC now 

i read that there was a pH increaser and a ammonia free bottles that i could use with dechlorinator, but i don't know if i should do the WC and dump all that in cuz it'll still make my fish go crazy again before those could kick in.

so any suggestions?
o and also there was a method that i could try was to have about 3 5 gallons bucket and dump all that stuff in and let it sit over night and then do water change.

^^^^^ can anyone give me a thumps up if that could work too?


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## JordanRHughes (May 18, 2010)

the temperature is the first thing that comes to mind.


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## EGYPTIANovic (Apr 2, 2010)

for the mean time i'm just putting some ammonia chips, but i need a different solution, is there any way to eliminate ammonia completely?


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