# E. Kilesa question



## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

I have a group of 5 E. Kilesa, had them about 6 mos. One is male for sure because his lit up all the time! Of the five the males turned out to be the two smallest. At least I think. That's where my ? comes in. The suspected second male won't color up and resembles the females in almost every way except that "he" has a very distinct black throat. I have heard one male will color up before the other while they mature but I have already had a spawn out of the definite male and no evidence that this #2 is male other than the throat. I'm not a kilesa expert, all fish seem happy. It's just that I wanted at least 2 males and I don't want to go and find another male and then end up with 3 males just due to space. Is the black throat, which none of my 3-4 inch (All the kilesa are close to 4 inches now if not bigger) females have a defining male characteristic? Will both of them ever color up at the same time?

When I woke up yesterday I did see 2 bowers, side by side, whereas I usually only find one. Will one male dig 2 bowers? The definite male is so colorful that he can't hide it even when he;s faded he's got a blue head, yellow dorsal etc. The suspected #2 male is the smallest of the whole group. They are in an 80 gallon with a pair of gobies which ignore them. Water is ALWAYS super clean.
Thanks.


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

Yes one male will dig two bowers.

You have two males. Females are just silver for the most part.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Is it likely and/or typical for the second male not to color up ever? I originally thought I just had to wait longer but with the other male at full color it seems, since these two are the same age, that the second would have at least a bit more than a black throat?


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

The second male should colour up at some point.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Yes but when do I decide he's not a he and then go looking for a second male??


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

You have two males, as Sarah said, the females do not have a black throat. What size tank is your group in, it may be too small for two males to color up? The second male sounds like he is not coloring up, because he doesn't want to be beat on by the dominate male.
Thanks,
Daniel


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## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

I agree with the two males, but it raised a different question for me. All of my Kilesa and others I have seen have yellow throats. Do some Kilesa have black throats? However, my melanogenys have black throats. Still, in either species my females show no color. Curious...


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

From the description, they sound like melanogenys. I meant to bring that up, good catch!
Thanks,
Daniel


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

They have black throats but when the dominant male "flares" his throat is yellow. Still melanogenys? I bought them from a very reliable breeder but it's possible the old fellah heard what he wanted to after I said Enantiopus.

They are in a 100 gal with Calvus and a pair of Gobies. However there sand area is a bit restricted,IMO, for the standard Enant area. It's so obvious but I'd bet if I moved the suspect male and a female into another setup he'd color right up. I didn't think they showed much conspecific aggression beyond flaring colors at one another?


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## @nt!x (Feb 9, 2009)

Pics?> :fish:


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

@nt!x said:


> Pics?> :fish:


Took the words out of my mouth . Or keyboard, as the case may be.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who has no useful advice, but wants to see pictures of the pretty fishies)


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## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

Hey BioG, I'm not doubting you, I just have never seen or experienced a kilesa with a black throat. I keep 8 kilesa (5M - 3F) in a standard 6' long 125. My 5 males have yellow colored throats all of the time wether they are flashing or not. They do show conspecific aggression, but nothing beyond a short chase so far. They are a young breeding group at around 3.5" in total length. Since you say yours have spawn before, what does the dominant male nest look like. The kilesa will have a shallow depression in the center with small piles of sand in a circular pattern around the nest. The melonagenys will just have the circular depression without the piles of sand. Either way, both fish are beautiful.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

My wife has been out of town with the camera so no pics for a couple days but The nest is, to the T, exactly what you described the nest of "kilesa" to be. I'm confused and maybe describing them wrong. Electric Blue/green head (mostly on top), Yellow streak down dorsal, orange/blue marbling in dorsal, black throat (the very bottom of the throat), yellow throat when flared (though the black part is still their), very purple hue along the side, black lips, black tail, elec blue/green pectoral fins etc.

I hope this helps but I will post pics sunday


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Ok Here's a pic, not a good one mind you but at least one where you can see one is clearly male and you can see the other I suspect is male and the blackness of his throat. I will post better pics of the suspect male if needed to a.) Identify them as "Kilesa" or "Melanogenys" and/or b.) identify the suspect as a male. Thanks!


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Although the blackness of his throat looks thin in this pic it's actually a fairly thick line which follows the line of his gill plate and flexes as he breathes. It is always black and only the 2 in the pic out of 5 have this.


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

Hard to tell from your picture, but it looks to be two males.
Thanks,
Daniel


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## Jago (Oct 5, 2007)

Ummm....kilesa have an all yellow jaw and throat, no black involved.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

more pics then?


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Here are some pics of them both. I've decided the "suspect male" is, in fact male but now I'm concerned that I've been considering them Kilesa this whole time while they may be Melanogenys so take a look tell me what you think.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

here's a pic of Kilesa that I found on the net. Mine don't get black mouthes but this one does have the black gill plate lining. I think I've got Kilesa. Doesn't really matter but it would be nice to know.
http://www.xenotilapia.de/Galerie/image ... sa%205.jpg


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## @nt!x (Feb 9, 2009)

Great looking fish either way  :fish:


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

Looks like melanogenys, which has the black chin and a longer face,then the kilesa.
Thanks,
Daniel


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Do both species get black in the faces during spawning coloration? Maybe mine is Melanogenys but still too young for that. Wherever you see white in the pics, that's yellow. I'm not trying to force them into being kilesa I just want to know definitively.


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

While I've given you my opinion, from what I can see from your pictures, the most important thing is you do have the two males you wanted, plus the fish are gorgeous! :drooling: 
Thanks,
Daniel


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## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

My opinion is melanogenys as well. I would continue to research some more on that as well. Maybe post the same pictures or copy a link to this post on Cichlidae.com Responses can be a little slow. I would also ask the person you got them from if he happens to have any melanogenys, then after you get their answer, ask if they have any kilesa.


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## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

Although you said the spawning site had the individual sand piles in a circular fashion around the depression in the sand. Which means kilesa :?


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Confused but every day the dominant male colors up more and His throat sure is BLACK. Doesn't matter to me they are both gorgeous fish and, Obviously they could be either or and I wouldn't know! 

The guy I got them from does sell both and I was buying a bunch of stuff, I had brought a friend and was showing him around the breeders fish room so he may have heard me say Enantiopus and just assumed I meant Melanogenys. He's kind of hard of hearing and I'm new to Enants in the first place so I wasn't paying attention. Again, it doesn't matter to me but I do appreciate all the help. Not bad looking for $8


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## LampLover (Feb 19, 2003)

Nice looking fish but definitely not Sp "Kilesa".


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## famikert (Feb 20, 2003)

here is a pic of a male kilesa http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8ce2 ... /ry%3D400/


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