# Stand Question



## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

I had a stand built for my tank. It is built with 3/4" plywood (it's for a 72x19 110g tank). The stand is 72.5 x 19.5 and the tank that will be sitting on it is made of half inch glass. This means that when the tank is sitting on the stand, there is a quarter inch clearance on the outside but none on the inside (hope that makes sense). Is this okay?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

So, if it gets nudged at all there will no longer be inside support at that point? I wouldn't be comfortable with no margin for error. That seems to be a pretty narrow support strip. But, that's just me. Might be fine, and it's certainly not going to be easy to nudge once it's filled with water. I just like the safety factor. Lumber is cheap and so is my time.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

That's my feeling too. He was supposed to build it with 1" plywood which would have given me the clearance I would have been comfortable with. The stand got delivered yesterday and I noticed the change. The problem is that this was the one issue (the thickness of the plywood) that I didn't have written in the design I approved. The 1" thickness was discussed verbally only. I fear I might be stuck with it.


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## Will1983 (Dec 6, 2009)

well why dont you just glue and screw a frame of 2"x2" timber inside the plywood?


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## BigDaddyK (Nov 6, 2006)

Heck, go to Home Depot and by a sheet of 4'x2' 3/4 ply and glue and screw that in 4" strips.. that gives you more glu'in and screw'in area than a 2x2 and the 3/4 on the inside is plenty of support. Home Depot will cut the strips for you but you'd have to cut the strips into the length you need. just ensure its leave with the current stand so you don't cause pressure on the glass. I don't know your comfort level with tools etc. but I'm confident that pretty much anyone could make this happen. YOU CAN DO IT!! :thumb:


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Will1983 said:


> well why dont you just glue and screw a frame of 2"x2" timber inside the plywood?


Just to clarify, my concern isn't about the stand being able to support the weight of the tank. It's about the strip the tank sits on being too narrow. Are you thinking that putting 2x2 posts in teh corners would give the corners of the tank more to sit on top of? (not sure I'm explaining myself clearly).


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

BigDaddyK said:


> Heck, go to Home Depot and by a sheet of 4'x2' 3/4 ply and glue and screw that in 4" strips.. that gives you more glu'in and screw'in area than a 2x2 and the 3/4 on the inside is plenty of support. Home Depot will cut the strips for you but you'd have to cut the strips into the length you need. just ensure its leave with the current stand so you don't cause pressure on the glass. I don't know your comfort level with tools etc. but I'm confident that pretty much anyone could make this happen. YOU CAN DO IT!! :thumb:


Thanks for the encouragement. I can really use it at the moment. Your suggestion makes sense. I'm going to see if the guy who built it can do this.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

zimmy said:


> Will1983 said:
> 
> 
> > well why dont you just glue and screw a frame of 2"x2" timber inside the plywood?
> ...


You're exactly right. You need to give the tank more to sit on, structually it's fine.

I'd put the 2x2's in the corners. Then I'd probably run a 3" piece of pine flat around the entire top to trim it out and give the tank something flat to sit on. Mitre the corners of that piece and let it overhang the outside of the plywood by 3/8" or so. Commercial pine stands are often put together this way. You just need to avoid leaving one corner of an added 2x2 up above the plywood edge, or the tank will wobble corner to corner. So, it's going to have to be cut pretty accurately. You want it to fit exactly for support without being too high.


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## BigDaddyK (Nov 6, 2006)

> I'd put the 2x2's in the corners. Then I'd probably run a 3" piece of pine flat around the entire top to trim it out and give the tank something flat to sit on. Mitre the corners of that piece and let it overhang the outside of the plywood by 3/8" or so. Commercial pine stands are often put together this way. You just need to avoid leaving one corner of an added 2x2 up above the plywood edge, or the tank will wobble corner to corner. So, it's going to have to be cut pretty accurately. You want it to fit exactly for support without being too high.


I like most of your idea here but I personally wouldn't use pine.. it's a soft wood that tends to warp and twist... under a tank is not where I'd want that happening.

do what you wish thats just an opinion.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

prov356 said:


> Then I'd probably run a 3" piece of pine flat around the entire top to trim it out and give the tank something flat to sit on. Mitre the corners of that piece and let it overhang the outside of the plywood by 3/8" or so. Commercial pine stands are often put together this way. You just need to avoid leaving one corner of an added 2x2 up above the plywood edge, or the tank will wobble corner to corner. So, it's going to have to be cut pretty accurately. You want it to fit exactly for support without being too high.


The part where I'm worried about the tank theoretically slipping though is not off the outer edge but into the center. The dimensions of the stand are a little larger than the tank. The added wood is need on the inside of the perimeter. Perhaps I'm not understanding your suggestion?

I talked to the builder and have discussed some of the ideas you've all mentioned here with him. He's going to come over later this week to see how he can make this right.

I'd greatly appreciate if you kept the ideas coming though. I want to be able to present him with some clear and precise options.

Thanks.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Quick fix ... place a 3/4" #2 pine - (2 pieces of 1 x 10) - top onnit cut flush with the cabinet. Glue and dowel together then screw to the cabinet.

Wrap the top of the cabinet with 3/4" x 2-1/2" of the cabinet material rabbeted in to fit snugly with the tank and hide the error, after all that is what trim is for. You could have him bead the edge so it looks like it was designed to be there in the first place.

Don't tell anyone and noone will ever know cept us.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

fox said:


> Quick fix ... place a 3/4" #2 pine - (2 pieces of 1 x 10) - top onnit cut flush with the cabinet. Glue and dowel together then screw to the cabinet.
> 
> Wrap the top of the cabinet with 3/4" x 2-1/2" of the cabinet material rabbeted in to fit snugly with the tank and hide the error, after all that is what trim is for. You could have him bead the edge so it looks like it was designed to be there in the first place.
> 
> Don't tell anyone and noone will ever know cept us.


Any chance you post a drawing of what you mean? This stuff is like a foreign language to me


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Just to give more detail of the design:










The measurements are not accurate. Where it says 3" it's actually 4." The 4" beams are made of two sheets of 3/4" plywood.

Here's a photo of the area in question.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Does the tank sit on top of the 3/4" sides as you stated in the first post? Or does it sit in the recess in the second pic you just posted.

If it sits on top then what I posted will solve your problem , keep in mind it will raise your tank 3/4". You carpenter can rabbet 1/4" material out of the Trim board so it sits flush with the tank and covers the new top then finish it using the same finish used on the cabinet.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

The tank sits on the 3/4" side.

I was thinking further about how to solve this problem. Would a 3/4" strip of plywood, that's exactly the width of the recess, fixed along the inner edges of the lip do the trick? I'm thinking it would be sufficient because the strips along the long edges would be resting directly above the plywood beams in the middle that go to the floor. Along the short edges they wouldn't have this support beneath but maybe they aren't even necessary there.

It's a simple solution but as long as the strips are perfectly flush with the 3/4" sides it should work. It also has the benefit of not raising the stand height or the appearance of the stand.

Any feedback would be welcome.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I like most of your idea here but I personally wouldn't use pine.. it's a soft wood that tends to warp and twist... under a tank is not where I'd want that happening.


Pine is used on most commercial stands just as I described. It's not going to warp and twist further once fully cured, particularly attached to the supporting frame while under load.

Just have him trim out the top, so the tank has a bit more support and you'll be fine. That'll distribute the weight across the edge of the plywood better.

Just my .02


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

I think the guy who made the stand meant for the tank to sit "in" the stand on that flat top in the pic. You should just be able to take a router to the inside of the top lip to make the tank sit down in the stand. He basicly made the stand just a little to small for the tank to sit in properly.


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## BoilerFan (Jun 20, 2010)

It does look like the carpenter thought the tank would sit "in" the top rather than on it.

I'm no carpenter my self, but why not get a sheet of ply wood and fasten it "in" the top (flush with the outside "rim") and the taak should sit on it like it was completely flat across the whole stand?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

I can see why it might appear that he meant for the tank to sit in the recessed part of the stand but that is not the case. We had lots of discussion about the stand and he was clear that it needs to sit on the perimeter. In my conversations with the builder since the stand was delivered he's also clearly understood the problem of the perimeter not being wide enough to allow for a margin of error when the tank sits on the perimeter.



BoilerFan said:


> I'm no carpenter my self, but why not get a sheet of ply wood and fasten it "in" the top (flush with the outside "rim") and the taak should sit on it like it was completely flat across the whole stand?


This could be an option. I'll definitely discuss it with him.

With plywood stands having the perimeter supporting the tank is obviously the best way of maximizing the support for the tank. Is the reason they are usually left with an open top just to save on material? In the case of my stand I believe it's there to further enhance the structural integrity.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

could you not just get a piece of plywood the same dimensions of your tank bottom and just put it directly on top of your stand?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

The other thing I just noticed is that the top is not flat.









What would be the best way to fix this...perhaps together with the other problem?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

fox said:


> Does the tank sit on top of the 3/4" sides as you stated in the first post? Or does it sit in the recess in the second pic you just posted.
> 
> If it sits on top then what I posted will solve your problem , keep in mind it will raise your tank 3/4". You carpenter can rabbet 1/4" material out of the Trim board so it sits flush with the tank and covers the new top then finish it using the same finish used on the cabinet.


Is it a reasonable solution to shim the rabbeted material at the appropriate spots to make the top more flat while simultaneously addressing the original problem?


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Let me suggest before you plane any material off or shim, place the cabinet in the spot you intend to display your tank. Put some dead weight in the cabinet, stacks of newspaper, gallons of paint or water for example and let it sit a bit. Also check the bottom of the cabinet for shipping blocks or other means of protection that might affect the cabinet.

Then get out your straight edge, I use a 6' level as a trammel bar but any thing that is straight and true can be used and check if there any raised or depressed sections , i.e. does the straight edge rock or sit flat solidly.

Looks like the guy did a fine job manufacturing this cabinet from the pic's, it might just be wracked or something similar.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

The cabinet is already sitting where it will finally be. I had started shimming the stand to get it level when I noticed the problems identified in this thread. Since taking the photo and reading the last post, I pulled the shims out and left the stand sitting for a while with some weight in it. The issue shown in the photo is still there. The straight edge I'm using is a corner piece of aluminium that I believe is straight and true (when I hold it against the empty tank's glass it sits flush in every direction).

The guy who built it has done a great job. I'm very happy with the stand...other than the issues noted in this thread.

Any thoughts about the question I asked in my last post? Is the rabbeted strips with shims the recommended way to go to resolve both problems?


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Bottom line ... The tank sits completely on the stand, with the bottom plastic trim flush with the inside of the 3/4" stand and 1/4" of stand is revealed after tank is centered. should be no problem as long as there is no delamination. Did he use 3-5 ply from the Depot or cabinet grade AC ply.

If this is the case you prolly do not need to put a platform under the tank and can have a piece of trim, 1 x ~3, rabbeted in 3/16" and the tank will not be able to move but will need to be set in place, dropped in, if you omit the rear trim you can slide it in forward.

Have this band raised to cover the bottom plastic trim and it will look as though it was designed from the onset to be there especially if you rout in a bead or ogee on the bottom. Leave it square edged for a Shaker style.

This piece of trim will in no way shim or make up for inperfections in the straightness of the cabinet top. Our 6' x 2' x 29" tank basically sits on the two sides of the stand as deliverd by AGA. I was uncomfortable with that and made the front stile a little more structural.

If you decide to put a platform on top of the cabinet for piece of mind you would shim between this and the cabinet to make up for any discrepencies and the band trim will "hide" this seam.


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## supadave1981 (Feb 2, 2011)

judging by the google drawing an the built stand it looks like the guy who built it thought you was gonna set the tank inside the stand, what i mean is that .75 strp on the front an sides will hide the black trim on your tank. from my understanding of what your telling us is that you are setting your tank on top of that? if you doing that i would put some kind of .75 shim on the corners of that stand to better hold the tank better. good luck an i hope i don't have that much trouble with mine once i get it built i will have some pics an a build log up soon as i get more pics to post.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'll say it again, I can see why you would make the mistake of thinking the tank is to sit in the stand based on the drawing and photo but the builder understood that the tank is to sit on the perimeter. We met on Friday and looked at the stand together to see how the problem of the edge not being wide enough could be resolved. I didn't in any way get the impression that he had ever thought the tank was going to sit in the stand. He said the top was there just to increase the structural integrity of the unit. When I originally asked him to build the stand I had also been explicit that the tank was to sit on the perimeter (i.e. the edge of the plywood walls).

It seems that with a largish tank, getting the stand just right isn't so easy...unless you know what you're doing and can do it yourself.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

zimmy said:


> >snip< He said the top was there just to increase the structural integrity of the unit. When I originally asked him to build the stand I had also been explicit that the tank was to sit on the perimeter (i.e. the edge of the plywood walls).


He is correct. That insert boxes the 4 sides and keeps the geometry from twisting. You see this in cabinetry where they put wood gussets in the corners. Nowadays they staple plastic gussets in place and expect the installer to fasten it to the top for strength.

Your builder is not giving you false information. In hindsight when you asked him to build it such "that the tank was to sit on the perimeter (i.e. the edge of the plywood walls)" it might have been wise to include "and flush with the outside edge of the cabinet"

These things happen. It is how we deal with them that defines us. Work on a solution not the problem. Try to get satisfaction and have it not look like an afterthought. :wink:


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Also, fox, to answer your earlier question, I believe he used cabinet grade AC plywood. Originally, he was going to use 1" marine plywood but we then decided that was overkill. The problem arose in our miscommunication around the thickness of the ply (I had wanted to keep it at 1", he thought I was asking for 3/4" - the standard size he uses). If we'd had 1" ply the problem of sufficient support on the inside edge would not have been there.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

fox said:


> If you decide to put a platform on top of the cabinet for piece of mind you would shim between this and the cabinet to make up for any discrepencies and the band trim will "hide" this seam.


Hi Zim.
This is what I would do personally ^. Either that, or clamp a straight edge around the cabinet and cut it down to the lowest point with a skill saw. I would probably go with the adding a 3/4 plywood top route, as I like to place a piece of styrofoam under my tanks. If it wasn't for the fact that the front edge isn't perfectly flat, I would probably just leave it as is. As stated earlier, the chances of the tank shifting after it's set up would be very slim.
Can't wait to see it set up and full of Trophs.


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