# Discus question



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

hey guys, i am considering trying some discus now, and have a few questions (but any facts are appreciated)

first off, how big do the selectively bred variants get as well as how big do heckels discus get? i have heard of heckels getting dinner plate sized 

and in general, what does it take to keep discus, are they really as delicate as they say? how often do water changes need to be done with them? what size of water changes should be done? (i do 50-75% on my CA, i assume this is to stressful for discus)

also, how much more difficult are heckels discus, because i really would like to keep the natural type, but i hear heckels discus are darn near impossible to keep, is this true? what will it take to keep them alive?

im traveling into unknown territory when it comes to discus and i know very little experience wise, i have read a bit, but not to much.

EDIT: btw, is there a rule for "how many discus per gallon rule"? how many would be suitable in a 4' 90g tank?


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## rickztahone (Nov 5, 2008)

gage said:


> hey guys, i am considering trying some discus now, and have a few questions (but any facts are appreciated)
> 
> first off, how big do the selectively bred variants get as well as how big do heckels discus get? i have heard of heckels getting dinner plate sized
> 
> ...


you can have a discus grow upwards of 9" (that's not TL though). i'm not too sure about the heckels as i have never kept them but i've seen them around the same size as any discus IMO. I believe people saying that discus are delicate is a misconception. while it is more work to maintain a discus tank i think the end results are worth it. the do need a whole lot of time and dedication though. how often do you do the WC's with your CA's? there are people doing 90% WC's on a daily basis with juveniles. while in my opinion i think it is too much people have gotten the best results with mass amounts of water changes. once they reach adult-hood you can slow down on the WC's. the main reason for doing massive water changes on a daily basis is that juveniles benefit from getting fed not only a variety of good food (pellets, flakes, FBW, FBS, CBW...on and on) but also the frequency in which you have to feed them (4-6 times daily). This is all just personal experiences from other people on simplydiscus.com as well as myself. the water changes are by far the best thing for juvenile development. if you plan on doing heckels then you need to read up a lot. they need RO water i believe and they are a lot more sensitive to water conditions. as far as the rule of thumb for how many to keep it is roughly 1 discus per 10 gallons. things need to be considered though, such as filtration, if it's planted or not , other tank mates. IMO i think 15g is good for 1 discus if you do not have really good filtration. if you do then 1 for every 10 is fine. i hope this has answered your questions so far. like i said, try simplydiscus and you will have all the info you need (which is a whole lot). it is not *impossible* however to keep discus, just more dedication[/b]


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## markitos (May 12, 2007)

Well i think more small water change are better!
like 25% every three days!
I just got rid of my discus and at first did 50% a week and they did good but then i did 25% every three days and they looked even better!
But everyone cares for them different!
Try to see how the people or lfs the discus are coming are doing there water changes to try to replicate that schedule if at all possible!


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

let's just say that I find my reef tanks are less work than Discus setups... love the fish, but man, what wussy fish.

As for adult size... I find it's less about genetics, and more about care during growth phase of the young cichlid that determines the final size.

Beefheart and huge water changes in a bare bottom setup seem to produce much larger fish than regular food and a planted aquarium...


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi Gage...
As a first time with discus I suggest you start with the tank raised as they are a bit more forgiving than the heckels.. A lot of the old thoughts about discus keeping such as their fragile nature and need for a perfect ph have slowly been debunked over the years as more and more tank raised strains enetered the marketplace. While they are certainly more demanding in care than the usual tropical fish they are very rewarding to keep.
Before you jump in I suggest you research and read a lot and along with this forum and MFK you join simplydiscus, a site devoted to these magnificant fish if you haven't already done so. There are lots of very experienced discus breeders and keepers on the site as well as sponsors from who to purchase your fish. They also have quite a few stickies on how to pick your fish and maintain them..
I've found that the most important things about keeping discus are constantcy in ph rather than trying for a specific ph except with wilds, good stock from a quality breeder, about 1 per 10/15 gallons, temp about 82/83, good diet and above all water changes water changes water changes. With discus it really is all about the water. My discus smiled at me each time I did a water change. HAHA..
Discus are messy fish and at any age the more water changes the better.. You are needing to remove things other than whay can be measured with test strips and keep the water as clean as possible. That';s why for young ones, most recommend bb tanks as you feed often and therefore need to clean more. Planted discus tanks are beautiful but I feel should be resrved for adult discus or folks who have really mastered the planted tank thing but realize that the plants have to take a backseat to the discus. Because of the many water changes and high temp you have to be very selective with both your plants and tankmates if any.

As to size.. A lot depends what you want to end up with, the genetics and quality of the fish you start with and your dedication. You can have smaller discus..about cd size or smaller in a planted display tank and it will be beautiful or you can go for the gusto and try and raise them to maximum size by even more waterchanges and feeding regimes that require more time.. With discus it's all about the amount of dedication and time you are willing to give.

I know you love fish and if you feel you can devote the time I think you would love the discus. Start with quality stock from a breeder in your area if possible so you can see his stock and adult as well as juvies in all thier glory.. If you start with juvies about 3 inch size you can watch them grow into even more beautiful adults or you can start with adults and have less worries about the water changes.. With adults you can get away with once or twice a week and for me it was 50% each change. For juvies you are feeding more and so more water changes .. In your 90 gallon I suggest at least 6 and if posssible 8. Discus are social creatures and feel the most secure in groups.. the bigger the better..

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I've keep discus several times even had them spawn and each time thereafter really miss keeping them..They are definitely a wonderful fish and will give you lots of pleasure. They are not the wussy fish alot of folks expect them to be and very interactive with their owners if the owner wishes them to be. I've had discus push full grown angels out of the way at feeding time to get those prized bloodworms.. HTH Sue


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

generally i do weekly water changes, but every 3 days is definitely a possibility.

to be honest, i dont care what kind of discus they are, i just love the personality, peaceful personality (which would be a nice change).

if i am to do a discus set up, would it be imperative to be a clear bottom tank? i really hate clear bottom tanks lol, ideally, i would like to do sand, driftwood, and a few plants (amazon swords probably)

i dont know for sure if i will be doing discus though mostly because 16 and money dont mix well :lol: and i just quit my job due to bad management, it was driving my crazy!

so, if i decide on doing discus, i will go with one of the selectively bred variants first to try.

btw, even being 16 i dont classify myself an inexperienced fish keeper, i have been keeping fish since i was 8, so it does give me about 6 years of an active brain for experience :lol:

i have done some reading on discus, and have always been afraid of trying them until now.

thanx for taking the time to post everyone, the more guidance i get the better when it comes to weaker fish.

now, the question everyone will hate me for, is there any tankmates i can keep fish them safely? i have heard mixed signals on this subject. i ask because i would love to have a school of rummynose tetras and even perhaps something like a South American Leaf Fish.

something i do have to mention though, im 99% sure RO water is a terrible thing for any fish. RO water lacks a lot of essential minerals to keep your fish healthy, or so i thought, maybe these minerals are harmful to discus just like detritus?

also, my 90g is filtered by a Rena xp4 canister filter, it does 450gph, would this be good enough for discus? i hope so, expensive filter! it runs all my messy CA's well, and the tank is over stocked with these big messy guys.


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi again Gage..
Here's just a thought.. I know that everyone wants the very best fish and with discus this can get expensive.. If you really want to try them maybe you could find some local club members or a hobbyist who has some not so perfect discus but healthy ones for you to raise. Alot of folks don't like ones with peppering for instance but I think it can be attractive on some fish.. Same thing maybe someone just has one that isn't going to be as pretty as they want.. if you work with a local breeder maybe they will have some they can discount because of this type of thing. You would get to try keeping discus and maybe lower the expense.. Don't remember where you live, but try the local fish clubs and sponsers/breeders listed on forums like this one, mfk and simplydiscus. They all have marketplaces where you can post what you are wanting to buy..
If you decide to do young discus bare bottom is the easiest to maintain while they are growing youngsters.. however I've seen numerous bare bottom tanks that have a thin layer of sand and a piece of driftwood with either plants attached to the driftwood or in pots. That way everything is still easy to keep clean.. You can also paint the bottom of the tank on the outside with paints that look like sand etc.. If you go to simplydiscus you can see samples of these types of tanks.
They are not "weak" fish.. IME this is a misconception.. they just like very clean very warm water...
Once you have the discus going well you can certainly add tankmates.. just at the beginning I would concentrate on the discus.. Once you get that down and the discus are eating and happy in the tank you could add a nice school of rummynoses.. they go well together.. You could even have some bns if you wanted.. But the discus have to be the kings of the tank.. I would not add a leaf fish.. And I would add any others after the discus not the other way around if you start with juvenile discus..
I think if you look around your area you might find someone getting out of the hobby or with some not so perfect ones that would be wonderful in a 90 gallon tank.. Just make sure you start with if possible 5.. Try and get them from the same source at the same time.. if you can't then you have to qt everytime for at least a month.. It is hard to keep only one discus as they really should have the company of their own kind, but it is even worse to try and keep only 2 or 3 as they are cichlids and the weaker fish of the bunch will suffer and die..

Unless you have exceptionally hard water or exceptionally high ph above 8 or decide to breed, you will probably not have to deal with ro water at all. Your tap plus prime will probably work just fine.. And your filter should be fine...If at some point you decide you need additional filtration you can always add a sponge filter.. but honestly with all the water changes alot of folks only use sponge filters.. so you are ok there.. Nor is it necessary for you to feed beefheart etc unless you want to go that route.. a good pellet food, some frozen bloodworms etc. are all that is needed unless you are trying to raise the biggest fish you can. I think for a 16 year old you should just enjoy the beauty of the fish and its personality.. They are special and you don't need "show" rated fish to enjoy them.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. HTH Sue


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

i couldnt care less if they were show grade or anything, i have just always loved discus, so nice and peaceful in comparison to my Red Devils, Black Belts, Flowerhorns etc.

i would like to start with juveniles of about 3" in size, i have found some this size for 25 bux before, i have no problem spending 100-150 on discus, i do have money saved in my account (approx $1000) so it isnt like i cant afford it at all or anything.

if anything, i actually like the idea of imperfect color on them, i like knowing that no one has the same identical fish out there, kind cool.

as far as variant, i assume that there is no "this color variant is stronger then this one" so i think i will look for:

Pidgeon Blood (has been a favorite ever since i was a wee little thing lol)
Turqoise
Snakeskin
German Red
and Cobalt

and i LOVE the green peruvian, anyone know where i could find these?

are they good to mix different color variants? or are they like cories and prefer others of the same color?

again, im not 100% sure i am going to do discus, but i want all the info before even considering it.


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## nickmcmechan (Jul 21, 2007)

red / blue turks, pigeon bloods and alenquers are considered hardier strains, so would be good to start with


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## rickztahone (Nov 5, 2008)

i just finished painting my 55 that looks exactly like sand if you are intersted in making the BB look nicer than just the bland glass. i will load a pic for you when i get home. RO is used a lot for breeding pairs but you wouldn't get into that unless you really know what you are doing with discus. find yourself a reputable breeder and start with healthy stock. you seemed experienced enought that i think you would do well with discus. i do agree with above statement about discus being a misconception about them being so difficult to raise. just IMO of course


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## rickztahone (Nov 5, 2008)

here's the pic of the painted bottom i told you about
















here's one for kicks


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Gage at first,........we had quit some discusions on several treats and I considered you all the time as a skilled and experienced fish keeper. So age is no issue at all. 

The domesticated strains should be much easier to handle as the Heckels. From what I have read and has been told the Heckels are the real delicate discus. There are domesticated strains that still have the colorations of wild species. Stendker does have a domesticated strain of browns, alenquer and santarem.

When you grow out youngsters this will be cheaper and helps you become more experienced on them. You will be glad when they are at a size of 5+ inch and slow down in growth and slowely can decrease the number of water changes. After half a year of daily water changes the 2 or 3 times a week seems like a piece of cake. :wink:



> I have done some reading on discus, and have always been afraid of trying them until now.


 I'm glad to hear and I have all the confidence you can grow out 3 inch youngsters to beautiful adults. I can do it so you can do it! The most important and time consuming thing is lots of water changes.

As for tankmates,.....apisto's, small type BN pleco, peckoltia, cardinals, rummy nose, head and taillight / glow light and some more. I'm not to familiar with the leave fish but aren't they feeding on small fish?

When discus are in the growing stage they NEED minerals in the water. You will be fine with PH=7.5 and a GH of 10 or lower. If you can provide that you won't need RO water. Mine are in straight tap water right now, not treated not aged not softened no nothing,.....close to the tank temperature and straight from the bucket into the tank. PH=8, GH=9 and conductivity around 600 micro Siemens.

The strain of discus is not important if it comes to mixing diferent colors. I hope you will consider some things dough. I have seen tanks with 8 discus each of a diferent strain. The me those tanks look messy and distracting. I prefer only one color type or a match of two color types like Red Turq X Briliant Turq, Red Turq x Alenquer, Alenquer X Santarem, Snakeskin Red x Snakeskin Blue. The examples of the combinations do fit if it comes to color or if it comes to petern. They aren't to diferent like Pigeon Blood X Solid Turq. Something to consider but to you what to do.

Abouth the sand and the plants,.....if you plan on growing up youngsters I suggest to start bare bottom. This realy makes cleaning so much easier! When the fish reach the size of 5 inch or larger you could add a fine sand layer of 1/3 inch and put some plants in pots or make a terrace like I did. The terras can have a deeper substrate for the plants and the frond still the fine layer so it will be easier to keep it clean and there won't be a build up of dirt in the sand.

Gage,....before you start,.....read read read and the best site to do that is still simplydiscus. Lots of real experts and breeders over there and lots of reliable info! I'm sure you will be able to give the Discus what they need. Don't be afraid that they are so extremely delicate like people say. The only reason for doubt could be handling the 2 times a week large (50% or more) water change required for adults for *long term*. IMO the water changes are the hardest part on keeping domesticated discus. When you do you will be payed of by the magic of the king of the aquarium,...the Discus!

Rick,......tank looks nice with the blue background! :thumb: I notised most fish display very well against a blue background and it seems to boost up their colors,....except for blue fish :wink:


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Ah, I long for the days of $15 wc brown discus again .... *sighs*

No leaf fish with tetras rummynose size or smaller. They have huge mouths despite maxing at 4" and can easily handle 3" cylindrical tetras.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hey Dwarfpike!



> Ah, I long for the days of $15 wc brown discus again .... *sighs*


 So why don't have the wild looking Stendker discus with the easiness of domesticated fish  A couple of more new discus owners and we can start a new treat labeled as DISCUSsions  We sure can use someone like you,....a living encyclopedia with huge amounth of experience


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

:lol:

Don't think living in the same state as *Apistomaster* hasn't tempted me just a bit. Okay, more than a little bit!! :lol: Or the two heckels one LFS had at regular discus prices. But alas, atm I just don't have the extra time to do the extra maintence just yet. Not to mention tank size. Once I get settled into a house, I'm sure a display tank will be in order.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

dwarfpike said:


> Ah, I long for the days of $15 wc brown discus again .... *sighs*
> 
> No leaf fish with tetras rummynose size or smaller. They have huge mouths despite maxing at 4" and can easily handle 3" cylindrical tetras.


LOL, i never thought that one through... my parents had leaf fish, i know, they are crazy predators!

dutch dude, thanx a TON for the info, i will definitely keep reading!

so, juveniles do need daily water changes huh? of how much water at a time approx, i know you said 50% for adults, not a problem, but how much each day for the little guys?


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> so, juveniles do need daily water changes huh? of how much water at a time approx, i know you said 50% for adults, not a problem, but how much each day for the little guys?


Hey Gage. The daily water changes for small discus seem to be a lot but the problem is in the heavy foods and the poor metabolism of discus. The water becomes polluted very quickly and I have seen nitrates go up from 12 mg/liter to 14mg/liter in a single day! Not cleaning a youngster tank for a couple of days and the nitrate is over 20! The lower the nitrate the better they grow and you should stay below 15mg/liter but preferable below 10 m'/liter. For me this was hard becouse my tapwater already contains 10 mg/liter and with the daily water cleanings I could keep it at 12 mg/liter. I's not only the nitrate but also rotting of small food particles especially blood and small parts from the beefheart. Still beefheart is used by almost every breeder becouse it is cheap and the fish grow fast and large on it. Now you know the reasons for the large water cleanings and now you know why this is the hardest job on keeping discus. When the fish reach the adult size they eat les and can do with les feedings so the waste level will reduce and for that you can reduce the number of water changes. Still I recommend large waterchanges of 70%. The reason is simple,....70% of the dirty water will be drained out and replaced at once. With daily 20% water changes you will take out a smaler amounth that becomes dirty as well so most dirt stay in the tank. Large waterchanges is the way to go and the small cleanings I do every day is only to take out the poop and food particles so the water stays cleaner and I'm able to pull it of with 2 large wc's of each 70% a week.

Back to your question,.....when I bought the fish they were 3 inch and this was the recommended size to start with. They are not that expensive and are much easier to handle as 2 inch discus or smaler. I start feeding somewhere around 8 times a day. No large feedings but a lot of small once. If they didn't eat the food I skipped a feeding until they did. Every evening I did a 70% water change for the first 6 to 8 weeks. At that time they reached the 4+ inch. They slowly start reducing growth so I slowely stepped down on wc's to 50% every day. Once they were reaching the 4 1/2 to 5 inch I did a 70% wc every other day and kept this up to 5 inch. When they reach 5 inch they realy grow slow and there are periods they don't grow at all and have les appetite followed by increasing apatite and a grow spurt. So at the 5 inch I started with 2 large waterchanges a week of each 70% and the small daily substrate cleanings inbetween. When the fish are in a growth spurt (like some are right now) I do an extra large wc in between. This does depend on the waste level and theyr appetite dough. It is easy to see on the fish if you need to take the wc's up becouse theyr body color becomes darker. After a wc they have the brightest and the strongest colors.

My fish are still growing and probably will for 5 to 11 months from now. In that period they will feed more as adults and they also receive more feedings as adults ( 2 times a day a small amounth pellets and 3 times frozen or live foods). I want to keep up 2 large wc's for the adults and the small cleanings inbetween. This should be sufficient to keep the fish healthy and happy.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Dwarfpike,...... :lol: if I read your reply it will be only a matter of time before you will set up a discus tank. I will send Larry over to talk you into it,...it worked on me! :wink: Larry does have plans for some alenquer as well and his wild blues start to pair up. What,.....you left two Heckels in a lfs that were for sale for regular discus??? Eeeeh,...that requires quit some discipline not to buy them. So currently you don't live in a regular house? To Larry this would not have made much of a diference. The guy does have a house but still lives in a spare bedroom and turned the rest of the house into a huge fish room. He sometimes considers new species to breed so I suggested a couple of times to put some fish in the sink, toiled and bath tub becouse that were the only aria's left for fish :wink:


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

*gage* - Yeah, I love the s.a leaf fish. Excellant ambush predators. I wouldn't mind a species tank with them. At the LFS I worked at, we kept them in a planted 55 with african butterflyfish. Once I saw a 3" leaf fish down a 2", thick platy. So insane. We thought we would lose it so full it was. But it managed to digest it successfull. Deffinately would not have problems with rummynose. :thumb:

*Dutch Dude* - I've always wanted a discus display ever since I started keeping fish back when I was 12. So it wouldn't be too hard for him to talk me into them, especially since he kepts the natural color strains which I deffinately prefer. Now if he can breed those Heckels he has!!!  And yes, I visited them every day at lunch and peered for probably a month. But a 38 gallon wouldn't be good for them. I currently live in a rickety older apartment complex in a second floor, I don't even trust setting up my 50 and 40 breeders on their double stand here, even on a load bearing wall!! :lol: Not to mention money issues. One day.


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## shef (Oct 3, 2004)

Gage, I just saw this thread and I'm suprised! I never thought you'd go for discus! I only have on thing to add, if you are looking for some in our area I got 4 of my babies off of a lady who spawned them herself and I am really happy with them. All are hardy, healthy and amazing eaters (not at all picky like some discus)! Plus the price is right. I have gotten 4 red melons from her but she also has a pair of turks and a pair of red maps I believe. She's on the Winnipeg fish forum too!


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

He dwarfpike,.....Discus are those magic, handsome, beautiful, gracious gentle cichlids that are labeled as king of the aquarium. They are definitely something diferent compared to the other cichlids. When I was a kid my dad had 2 wild Browns and a Green F1 in a 45 gallon old style tank. As a kid those fish fascinated me and the same for my brother. This was back in the early 80's. I had a small 35 tank for my own at my bedroom for about 4 years or so. Later on I moved on to a paludarium. When I was a teenager I wasn't interested in fish and frogs any more and had found a new hobby,...girls! When hormones settled down I started a paludarium again and 8 years later I made the move to aquariums again. I realy liked the discus all the time and could not let go the memories of my dads Browns. All the stories abouth delicacy and the remembrance my dad sold the tank and quit the hobby becouse it took to much of his time, hold me back. Until a year ago after many e-mails between Larry and me. I definitely know how the "old" early discus looked like and I'm also the most interested in the "wild" look. Thats what I like abouth the Stendker Alenquer, Browns and Santarem. They are domesticated and easier handling as wilds but still have the wild looks,...only slightly improved. Still the wilds look the best to me but I think I should become more skilled in domesticated first. What are your favorite wild colors? I like lots of the royal Blue types, the reds like Alenquer and Curupera but the most fascinating is still the wild red spotted green. I'm les of a Heckel guy. Those are the most delicate also. Hmmm,...I realy hope you will soon find a better place and the finance to become more active in the hobby again and finally get the large display Heckel tank!!! In the meantime you could think abouth setting up a 29 with a pair!?


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Correction,....Curupera = Curipera

Here a link to a German site with great pics of all wild discus species,.....just show how beautiful wild specimen realy are!

http://amazon-exotic-import.de/Gallerie ... /INDEX.htm

Ruurd


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Here an other link to wilds http://amazon-exotic-import.de/Importe_AEI.html


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

dwarfpike said:


> *gage* - Yeah, I love the s.a leaf fish. Excellant ambush predators. I wouldn't mind a species tank with them. At the LFS I worked at, we kept them in a planted 55 with african butterflyfish. Once I saw a 3" leaf fish down a 2", thick platy. So insane. We thought we would lose it so full it was. But it managed to digest it successfull. Deffinately would not have problems with rummynose. :thumb:
> 
> *Dutch Dude* - I've always wanted a discus display ever since I started keeping fish back when I was 12. So it wouldn't be too hard for him to talk me into them, especially since he kepts the natural color strains which I deffinately prefer. Now if he can breed those Heckels he has!!!  And yes, I visited them every day at lunch and peered for probably a month. But a 38 gallon wouldn't be good for them. I currently live in a rickety older apartment complex in a second floor, I don't even trust setting up my 50 and 40 breeders on their double stand here, even on a load bearing wall!! :lol: Not to mention money issues. One day.


LOL, like i said, i know about them, i know there capabilities, which is why i said i wouldnt put them with tetras... any tetras LOL, it would be either them OR the rummynose.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

shef said:


> Gage, I just saw this thread and I'm suprised! I never thought you'd go for discus! I only have on thing to add, if you are looking for some in our area I got 4 of my babies off of a lady who spawned them herself and I am really happy with them. All are hardy, healthy and amazing eaters (not at all picky like some discus)! Plus the price is right. I have gotten 4 red melons from her but she also has a pair of turks and a pair of red maps I believe. She's on the Winnipeg fish forum too!


i got booted from WFF again... i have a big mouth when people get snarky with me... and just so happened David was getting a bit snappy, so im out... LOL

oh well, i didnt care for a lot of people on that forum, i found a lot of them to act like know it alls and really discovered they know very little.

hence one guy telling me Midas cichlids were peaceful...

btw, why are you surprised? cause im always posting RD, Flowerhorn, carpintis, Uro etc pics? :lol: i honestly am really starting to like the more peaceful SA cichlids. Geophagus, Satanoperca, Aequidens (not gold saums, silver saum, or rivulatus, like pulcher and that) and discus *** always liked as well.

besides that, i have a west african tank with only a baby whale, butterfly fish, and 5 dwarf frogs  i love this tank!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

*gage* - Ahso! Must of misread, my apologies!! And midas are very peacefull ... after a fishy lobotomy!! :lol: How goes the discus research? I remember an article from Dr. Leibel saying how he sat in on a discus disease lecture once, as was astonished as his wild caught discus were never as hard as the domesticated strains seem to be.

*Dutch Dude* - Yeah, I remember discus back when they all came in as either brown, blue, green, or heckel with no locations given. So sadly, it's hard to match now with what I remember. I've always liked the heckels, various alequers, and the nanay red spotted though.

I am constantly revising the list of what I'll keep next in what tank size. For instance, while I've kept bolivian rams as a pair in a 20 gallon long before, I do want to see them as a large group as I've always been a geophagus/satanoperca fan. Thus I think the next tank, barring a great deal on a used larger tank, will be a 75 gallon planted amano inspired bolivian tank. Most of his designs aren't cichlid friendly, but I found one that could be easily modified for bolivians. Of course though, I literally have a 300+ kb word doc with various tank combinations I want to try. Most people over here play the lottory to get out of debt, I play in hopes of a fish room!! :lol:


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## illusions2281 (Jan 25, 2009)

I'm just starting a tank. I see the Discus prefer the lower ph. But what other types of cichlids can i mix in with them. Actually i'm planning the opposite. I'd to have a few of the Angel varity mixed in with the regular cichlids. 
any suggestions?
being as i have a hex tank its deep so they should enjoy that.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Illusion,....Domesticated discus be fine on neutral PH = +/-7

It is hard to keep other cichlids with discus and even angels can be a real problem. I do think some of the dwarfs like RAM's and Apisto's are save and I keep A. hongsloi II with my group of discus. I know someone who kept Geophagus Surinamensis or similar with his discus but this was in a large tank.

Can you give us some more info on your tank and plans?


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