# PH 7.8... buffer anyone?



## niccomau (Oct 14, 2008)

The water here comes out of the tap at 7.8 here. I'm going to be keeping Neolamprologus leleupi :thumb: Will adding crushed coral to my substrate bump it up past 8.0? Also curious about what I should do during water changes? Add buffer to my water before hand or will the crushed coral take care of it? I also haven't figured out which type of rock I was going to use for the caves, any suggestions? I hear most rock will raise the PH...


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

Technically if you are at 7.8 you don't need to buffer. Are you able to measure the KH (also called alkalinity) of the tap water? The crushed coral can raise the pH but its not exactly the simple. The KH number will provide more information.


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## kilroy111 (Sep 25, 2006)

Depending on water change amount and frequency, the crushed coral may not be a bad idea. If you go weeks between water changes your pH will drop due to the nitrates and other waste products in the water. A buffer like crushed coral, limestone etc will keep the water around 7.8-8. It won't raise the pH over 8 no matter how much of it you have in the tank.

Increasing the kH and gH of your water with salts and buffers may assist in getting your fish breeding better, but they will live happily with no added buffers other than your coral sand and limestone type buffers.


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## dietz31684 (Aug 29, 2007)

I agree with what has been posted. Your fish may breed as often, but i would not mess with buffers unless you are specifically looking to breed the fish. If you want the crushed coral for looks that is fine, personally i say its not necessary. My africans (i know that Neolamprologus leleupi are not from the same lake but malawi also has a high ph) are at a steady 7.6 which is my tap water, I do 50% weekly waterchanges and they are happy and healthy and have been this way for over a year. Buffers are just one more step for human error to occur unless you really need them. (and i do not think that you do) I would also look into what ph they are in now from whom ever you purchase them from. just my $.02


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## niccomau (Oct 14, 2008)

I've heard this area has "hard water", but in terms of fish tanks I'll just have to test it myself. Thanks for the info guys :thumb:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Without knowing the KH value (buffers), there is no way to recommend whether you should add anything 
in way of buffers or not, whether it be chemicals or substrate. Regardless of the current pH value, if KH 
is very low, pH will crash. I'm with boredatwork. We need the KH value before making any judgments or 
recommendations. You can't talk pH without KH. pH stability is what's important more than specific 
value. If it's 7.8 and stable, then that's fine. I wouldn't add anything to raise it. But, if buffers are low 
then I'd add something to raise those because that'll stabilize the pH value.

If you do need to add buffers to raise KH, then just add it during water changes. Mix it up in a separate 
container first and add slowly. I agree, though, that keeping it simple and avoiding the addition of 
chemicals is the best option most often.

Think of KH or buffers as simply a means of avoiding a pH crash. Adding salts to raise GH is often 
attributed to better breeding and colors. GH is a different topic and not really related to the topic of pH 
and KH even though they're often lumped together.


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## niccomau (Oct 14, 2008)

PH 8.2, KH 125.3, GH 196.9

Hehe I checked today while I was testing my new tank for leaks on the back porch


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

All those values are great. I wouldn't add anything or worry about using a substrate or rocks to buffer either. You don't need it.


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## niccomau (Oct 14, 2008)

thanks! ooo I have a question though...are those unacceptable numbers for keeping mbuna? specifically rusties and saulosi? one of the articles I read gave me the impression that it might be too high...in the gh range i think?? :roll:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Can't answer the question on mbuna's but, before I accept a value given as 'not right' for a genus or 
species, I like to see some reason. Just a blanket too high or too low or not right is all too often given. 
It's true with lots of different other types of advice or recommendations as well. Without backup of 
personal experience or scientific study, then it just doesn't hold as much weight to me. So, sort of a 
roundabout way to say that unless you find some valid reason for that GH to be too high for mbuna, then 
I'd say it's not. At least that's the way I work with what I read on the Internet or any source for that matter. 
Consider the input and if divided, then I have no problem with moving forward and seeing for myself.

HTH but maybe not.


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

If your buying your fish locally it shouldn't be a problem for Mbuna. Lfs's don't usually do anything special to maintain "optimum" water conditions for their fish. As was mentioned earlier in the thread the worst danger is not having enough hardness to buffer the water which can lead to drastic drops in Ph. Your numbers are very close to my local water conditions and I haven't had any problems at all with my Mbuna in the last 6 years. :thumb:

On another note you mentioned that the water out of the tap was 7.8. To get the true Ph you'll have to wait a couple of days after drawing the water and check again. Some of the hardness will gas out and the Ph can potentially be lower. Mine goes from 7.8 to 7.6.


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## niccomau (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm filling up my tank tonight so I'll test it again in a couple of days to see what it levels out to


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

niccomau said:


> I've heard this area has "hard water", but in terms of fish tanks I'll just have to test it myself. Thanks for the info guys :thumb:


prov mentioned this already but since this is misused a lot I wanted to make it clear that the term hard or soft water does not have anything to do with pH or KH. The indicator for water hardness is GH. It is simply a measure of the concentration of dissolved minerals in the water (e.g. calcium, magnesium, etc).

"Pure water" such as distilled or RO water will have no GH because there are no "impurities" in the water. That would be considered soft water.

The more elements that are dissolved in the water the higher the GH, or hardness, of the water. Hard water has more dissolved minerals than soft water.

Hardness, or GH, is unrelated, for the most part, to pH and KH


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## niccomau (Oct 14, 2008)

Tap PH 8.2, Tank PH ends up at 8.0, kh is 7, gh is 10. I've got a question though... since the PH ends up 8.0 should I add a little aragonite to keep it up at 8.2 so it matchs the tap water's PH (before it settles)? Would the aragonite "kick in" and buffer the water back up to 8.2 as it settles, so the fish notice no difference? lol does that even makes sense? :lol:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

There's no reason to worry about a difference of 8.0 and 8.2. Either value is fine, and if the water fluctuates between the two values, it won't harm the fish IME.

Just my .02


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## niccomau (Oct 14, 2008)

ok just checking :lol: I wanted to make sure I had all my i's dotted and t's crossed


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