# Ick or Fungus?? Pictures included!



## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

Okay so I have a 37 gallon tank, with a 5" blood parrot cichlid and a 7" featherfin synodontis catfish, whom had been happy together for a little over a month (tank is cycled using media from previous tank and gravel as well), I've been keeping up on regular water changes, have a filter rated for higher than the tank (aquaclear 50 and aquaclear 20 running) and had the tank at 80 with plenty of hiding spots. I feed hikari cichlid pellets (gold and staple) for the parrot with the occasional frozen baby shrimp, occasional cricket, and bloodworm cube once in a while. The catfish gets a combo of hikari sinking wafers and tetramin ttropical tablets.

I recently introduced 6 tiger barbs for more activity in the tank, and subsequently the whole tank got ich.

I've quarantined the tiger barbs (pointless at this point I know) and have lost 4 of the 6 and they aren't looking better (been treating with super ick cure for a week).

I've been treating the 37 gallon as well with super ick cure and things just seem to be getting worse. I've added salt, raised the temp to 84, removed the carbon from both filters, and done extra water changes.

Ammonia - just under .25 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 20 ppm (going to treat that very soon)
pH - 7

The parrot has been laying on the bottom of the tank, usually on his side or leaning against something, and the featherfin has been doing the same.

They for sure have ich, but they also have this film/fungal thing on their sides (the catfish has it on his side and eyes, the parrot has it on his forehead)

Can anyone diagnose the problem or at least give positive advice on where to go from here? Because super ick cure doesn't seem to be working at all.

Here are the pictures

The Blood Parrot Cichlid

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3 ... d=46604130

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3 ... d=46604130

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3 ... d=46604130

The catfish

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3 ... d=46604130


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

That's a toughie.....

Was the ammonia in the tank prior to the treatments?

Normally, my recommendation would be to increase the temp to above 86 degrees. At temps above 86 degrees, 99% of ich species can no longer multiply (disrupts a specific component of the life cycle while speeding up the others). But this only occurs above 86 degrees. In addition to increased heat, use of standard aquarium salt at 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons is used. This serves multiple beneficial purpose that I will not cover. The only question is.... can the catfish withstand the salt. It's been my experience they can, provided the salt is added slowly over a period of several hours.

That would deal with Ich. The question is.... what is the white film. If it's bacterial, increasing heat can make it worse. But I don't think it's bacterial (did the tiger barbs develop this problem?)

The "film" could be a reaction from the ammonia or the super ich cure. Which is why I posed the initial question about the ammonia. If overdosed, the super ich cure could cause many of the problems you are describing and if the ammonia build up is recent, that would be further indication of a potential overdose of the medication. I don't notice the "film" on the parrot, just the catfish, or at least it apears to be worse with the catfish. Since scaleless fish are notoriously sensitive to most ich medications, this would further indicate the film is a reaction to the meds.

For the record, I am totally against almost all Ich medications. I consider their use akin to curing a headache with a shotgun. 99% of Ich cases can be safely cured with nothing more than heat (above 86 degrees) and salt. The only Ich medication I can recommend, for use in those cases where either heat or salt cannot be used, is Kordon Ich Attack (especially in tanks with scaleless fish). For very stubborn cases, especially those cases where fungus is present (a result of the wounds caused by the parasite), SeaChem ParaGuard.

Of course, any change in treatments should be preceeded by a large water change, even a pair of them back to back. This will remove the medications, reduce the quantity of free swimming ich, and if conducted in conjunction with a gravel vac, will remove many ich cysts from the substrate prior to their division into hundreds more.

EDIT: Another potential cause of the "film" is Costia, which I have succesfully treated in Angelfish with the same heat and salt treatment, although I got the salt treatment up to 3 tablespoons per 5 gallons, with the salt added in 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons increments every 12 hours.


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

kmuda said:


> That's a toughie.....
> 
> Was the ammonia in the tank prior to the treatments?
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure the ammonia was a spike from when I added the tiger barbs to the system, and I might have over-medicated a little bit, so that could be why the "film" is present. I'm currently bumping the temp to 87 and slowly adding aquarium salt at these proportions, hopefully we can pull this tank around!

To answer the early question - yes the tiger barbs had this problem, but didn't really have the film except for on the back fins and around the eyes.

I do care for my fish a lot and would love nothing more than to make both the parrot (he's like a dog to me) and the catfish well again!


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

The parrot died last night


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

I'm sorry to hear that.

Not that it's of much help now, but I'd consider not buying fish from wherever you got the barbs, and using a quarantine tank for any new additions next time. Many fish stores keep their stock in poor conditions, leaving them vulnerable to disease. That means they become disease bombs when they get into your tank with your healthy fish.


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

It's okay, I guess I had to learn the hard way on that one, and I don't plan on buying from them anymore. There's another LFS that I only got the Blood Parrot from that's 40 mins away. I'll try there. For now I'm not sure after the ick clears up what to put in the tank, any suggestions? I redecorated and I'm thinking smaller cichlids, either CA/SA or Africans.

Suggestions??

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3 ... d=46604130


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