# New to Cichlids - 75 mbuna stocking + setup questions



## bgfalcon (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi Folks,

A little about me:

I've been obsessed with aquariums (and fish in general) for as long as I can remember. I've kept tropicals for many years, and have had a planted 75g running for about five years. I got tired of trimming plants, dozing ferts, trimming plants, changing bulbs, trimming plants, etc. and decided to move my fish, snails and hundreds of cherry shrimp to a smaller tank and start the 75g over with African cichlids. I fell in love with Lake Malawi fish, mbuna in particular, and decided that's what I should do.

Equipment:
75g standard (48"x18"x21")
Aquatop CF500uv
Eheim 2217
2x Jager 250w heaters
2x T5HO light fixture (I plan to change my rosette grow bulb to an actinic or 50/50)
water ~78 degrees

I'm also looking at picking up a wavemaker to break the water surface up a little more. I greatly dislike bubblers, and I've read/seen that cichlids often like to play in the current.

Water stats from tap:
PH 8
KH 8-10 (that's about 150ppm? Not sure on exact conversion)
GH ~8
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate 0

The tank is currently on day four of fishless cycling, so I have plenty of time to agonize over setup and stocking. :lol: I used 2tsp of pure ammonia to bring it to ~3ppm.

First question is in regard to aquascape. My tank is black background, tahitian moon sand, and texas holey rock. I understand you want at least 1-2 caves per fish, but haven't seen much definition of what exactly constitutes a "cave." I used the rock I had, and bought a little extra and came up with this:



http://imgur.com/8FK1L

 (imgur album - let me know if it's not working for some reason)

The pictures don't indicate the depth well, but I did what I could with the three visible sides to create some hidey-holes, and left some larger gaps toward the top for fish to swim through to break line of sight. I used a few pieces of thick slate to build up off the bottom and add stability. Any input would be appreciated.

Second question is in regard to stocking. I know I definitely want Labidochromis caeruleus (Yellow Lab) and Pseudotropheus sp. Acei (Yellow Tail Acei), but I want to get a third and maybe fourth species for additional color and patterns. At the top of my list is the Demasoni, but as a mbuna beginner I think they'd be more hassle than I want to start with - I do like the idea of having a larger number of a dwarf/smaller mbuna to go with the larger yellow labs and Acei. As with the cherry shrimp in my other tank, I like the look of activity/motion that the small animals bring compared to the larger ones.

Other species I really like are:
Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos (Maingano)
Metriaclima callainos (Cobalt Blue Zebra)
Pseudotropheus socolofi (Not albino - my wife hates them)
Cynotilapia Afra - White top, Jalo Reef, Cobue
Cynotilapia sp. "hara"
Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty)

As far as availability, I will basically be ordering from either LiveFishDirect or LiveAquaria. Rusty and non-albino socolofi I haven't seen online, but the rest seem readily available. I don't have the best LFS available near me. There is a large mix of chain stores, which I refuse to give business to because of their poor animal husbandry; one or two hobbyist stores with poor selection and questionable quality; and one amazing, awesome, perfect in every way except prices LFS. I can't bring myself to pay $27 for one small Yellow Lab - regardless if I know they keep great, healthy stock.

So of the above, my first pick would be maingano, but I've read they tend to have some temperment issues that don't always suit well with yellow labs/acei. Any suggestions? Any definite "no" on the list?

For numbers, I want to aim for 1m/4f Yellow Labs, 1m/3f Acei, plus ???? I was planning to start with 8x lab juveniles and 6x Acei juveniles (plus ????) to weed out any extra males and problem fish. I have an extra tank and/or supplies to make dividers to hold them.

Thanks for reading. Any suggestions regarding the rockscape or stocking would be greatly appreciated.


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## animallover4life (Jul 23, 2014)

For UR stocking instead of the yellow lab and demasoni you could do salausi 1m to 4f because female is yellow and the male is blue with black stripes. And I would add a little bit more rock but looks great


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd do 1m:4f each on the labs and acei. Maybe rusties 1m:4f and maingano 1m:7f.


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

Jalo Reef could be your Demasoni substitute; similar coloration, still on the small side, still a bit more aggressive than the other fish, but not quite the headache that Demasoni can be.

P. saulosi could be another option, but they can be more costly and hard to find, and with only 1 or 2 males in your tank they would give the opposite color effect of what you're going for.

If you go with Labs, Acei, and a blue barred species, Rusties would be a nice 4th to round out your stock.

I agree, you could use a bit more rock.


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## bgfalcon (Feb 5, 2015)

animallover4life said:


> For UR stocking instead of the yellow lab and demasoni you could do salausi 1m to 4f because female is yellow and the male is blue with black stripes. And I would add a little bit more rock but looks great


Thanks. I did like saulosi, but not sure I would give up yellow labs for them. Finding them is also tough. I'll try to source some more rock - it's crazy expensive around here, but I can probably pick up some plain limestone chunks at a local supply co.



DJRansome said:


> I'd do 1m:4f each on the labs and acei. Maybe rusties 1m:4f and maingano 1m:7f.


Thanks. Rusties have been hard to find, but this is definitely a mix I've considered. 23 adult fish is a lot!



The Cichlid Guy said:


> Jalo Reef could be your Demasoni substitute; similar coloration, still on the small side, still a bit more aggressive than the other fish, but not quite the headache that Demasoni can be.
> 
> P. saulosi could be another option, but they can be more costly and hard to find, and with only 1 or 2 males in your tank they would give the opposite color effect of what you're going for.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Would you stock Jalo Reef (or other Afra) 1m:4f like the others, or in more of a crowd like Demasoni?


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## Loume (Dec 27, 2014)

I vote for 3 species only, starting with about 1.5" juvies, 8-10 yellow labs, 8-10 callainos pearly white location morph (these may be a little harder to locate than the cobalt), and 8-10 maingano, skipping the rest, at least for awhile.... with end target of 16-21 matured adults. Good combo of monomorphic coloring-yellow, blue, black, and pearlescent, females all look nice, pretty good match for aggression levels, and size. Likely some of the fish may thin out some numbers a bit themselves before you can, as they mature, and there may even well be more than 1 male of some allowed to live in harmony/semi harmony, which can sometimes be preferable....

acei's nice looking and usually mild mannered, but can get fairly large, quite a bit larger than all the others. Rusties, the males can be highly attractive sometimes if quality, but females pretty drab.


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## bgfalcon (Feb 5, 2015)

Loume said:


> I vote for 3 species only, starting with about 1.5" juvies, 8-10 yellow labs, 8-10 callainos pearly white location morph (these may be a little harder to locate than the cobalt), and 8-10 maingano, skipping the rest, at least for awhile.... with end target of 16-21 matured adults. Good combo of monomorphic coloring-yellow, blue, black, and pearlescent, females all look nice, pretty good match for aggression levels, and size. Likely some of the fish may thin out some numbers a bit themselves before you can, as they mature, and there may even well be more than 1 male of some allowed to live in harmony/semi harmony, which can sometimes be preferable....
> 
> acei's nice looking and usually mild mannered, but can get fairly large, quite a bit larger than all the others. Rusties, the males can be highly attractive sometimes if quality, but females pretty drab.


I like that combo suggestion. I'll check out the sponsor sites to see if the pearl white callainos can be found.

I usually check this site at work and the sponsor page is essentially blank. I assumed that was intentional. At home I see all the different sites. Some of them have pretty good selection and prices. Must be an ad block or something at work.


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## Loume (Dec 27, 2014)

Falcon, In hindsight, I think that particular triple combo might be how I would have better preferred to stock my bathroom tank 75g.

I sent you a pm.


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## bgfalcon (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi folks. Just an update.

After lots of reading, seeing suggestions for other folks (and suggestions from the vendor), etc, I purchased the following:

P. Saulosi - 12x planning ~2m/6f
L. Caeruleus Nkhata Bay (White Labs) - 8x planning 1m/4f
P. Elegans Luwala Reef (Yellow Tail Acei) - x6 planning 1m/3f
S. Multipunctatus - x4

I received the fish this morning after some FedEx mixups, but all arrived alive and are still doing well. I put them in and gave them a few hours before turning on the lights, then fed them NLS Cichlid pellets. Those went over very well. A couple males are already trying to court females and dancing for them, so that was entertaining to watch.

A couple pics - haven't managed to catch a decent pic of any Saulosi yet. They have been pretty busy.


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## jw85 (Dec 24, 2013)

Tank looks nice. White labs are pretty awesome.


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## Kleovoulos (Jan 6, 2011)

I like your stocking combo!
Have you find pure Ps.saulosi ?? 
Here is very hard to find, exept hybrid like "red coral"


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## bgfalcon (Feb 5, 2015)

jw85 said:


> Tank looks nice. White labs are pretty awesome.


Thanks.



Kleovoulos said:


> I like your stocking combo!
> Have you find pure Ps.saulosi ??
> Here is very hard to find, exept hybrid like "red coral"


Thanks. I can't speak to the quality of the Saulosi, but the vendor came highly recommended and everyone else seems to be happy from the reviews I've seen. They are labeled as Taiwan Reef, but the yellow/orange isn't as vibrant as some pictures I've seen and all of them have the faintest hint of barring - though that could be due to shipping stress, or it could mean I have a group of 12 males


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## bgfalcon (Feb 5, 2015)

Had to perform an "extraction" today. One of the Saulosi got himself wedged inside one of the holey rocks.

I was looking in the end of the tank and just barely saw his face poking out of a rock and shaking violently. I brought the rock up to the top of the tank and saw he was wedged into a little slot - plenty of room to get in, but just barely too tight to get out and he got stuck.

Some careful chipping with a pair of needlenose pliers took away just enough rock for him to squirm and flop out. He's back to swimming fine and following me along the glass - hopefully he didn't injure himself.

Here he is cruising the glass:


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

That is looking good! Love your stock,..especially the White-Lab choice with the Saulosi!..and that little male is already coloring up nicely.


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