# My First Mbuna Aquarium



## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Well as the title says this is my first time ever keeping Mbuna, well it is my first time keeping any fish other than a goldfish in a bowl when I was a kid. (I know now that keeping a goldfish in a bowl is just wrong). This is only my 2nd pets as an adult as I also have two red ear slider turtles that are my frist. So is my substrate sufficient for now? I plan on changing it out for pool filter sand and holy rock in the next couple of months but I was wondering if the way I have it is OK for the little guys for now? They have a good little amount of hiding spaces under the fake tree stump and the rocks and fake rock cave thing. So how badly am I overstocked? I have 8 yellow labs, 8 Socolofi and 8 Cynotalapia Zerbrodies jalo reef yellow tops in a 55 gallon aquarium. (sorry if I butchered the spelling, and for mixing common names, genus names and species names lol). Do you think I will get a good ratio of females for my males? Any time frame on when I can vent them? Sorry for the blurry pics but all I have is my camera phone and I'll be honest even if I had a digital camera I don't know how much better I would be able to take the pics. Do my Cichlids look pure? of good quality? I don't think a lot of the barring and color came through on the pics so it may be kinda hard to tell. I kinda want 1M to 4F of each species for a total of 15 fish or so. I am running a rena XP4 (450GPH before media/head) so I think I'm over filtering pretty good and I plan on adding my Fluval u4 back to the opposite end of the tank to try and force some more water movement towards the intake in a clockwise path (It's currently on my 40 Gallon breeder for my juvenile turtles who will be getting a 350 Gallon stock tank soon). Even with over filter how bad am I overstocked? would getting a 4 foot by 18 inches in width tank do me any better? I think that would be a 75 gallon? That is pretty much the biggest aquarium I can put in my room, but if it means that the fish will be better off I will get the 75 gallon plus I really like the extra depth on my 40 gallon breeder. The yellow labs were underfed when I got them because the breeder/distributor doesn't feed them on the weekends but I think they are starting to look a lot better. Let me know what y'all guys think and any advice . I've had them for about two weeks now. I also need to pull the background back off and clean the back of the tank because I idiotically put the background on without wiping the back of the tank down...SMH I was in too much of a rush lol.


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

42 views and no replies? Lol somebody say something...anything really. Are my pics too big?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Your substrate is fine. Not my 'cup of tea' but you could keep them on a bare glass bottom. Once you get the sand in there it will look much better and give the fish something to sift through, allowing you to observe some cool natural behavior.

You are not overstocked.

Odds are 50/50 for ending up with the ratios you stated in the post. Don't remove any fish until they become an issue/bullied(hiding up in the corners, behind equipment, constantly chased/physical damage).

I have no confidence in my venting abilities, so I will not state a size. You'll probably find out who's a female once they start spawning. This could start as early as 2". The 'Jalo Reef' males should start to color up at a small size around 2".

I know who you got your fish from, so I wouldn't worry one bit about purity.

A 75 is certainly nicer, but your fish should be totally fine in the 55. For filtration, a good number to shoot for is 7 - 10x turnover rate an hour. Having 2 filters is always suggested. Having a backup is always a good idea.

Couple things...

Fill your tank to the top. A larger volume of water is easier to maintain quality.
When you switch over to sand, be sure to add a lot of rock.
Consider a black background. It will improve the look of your tank and fish. Backgrounds on a roll kinda suck and give off a nasty glare. Paint the back with the color of your choosing, or use felt.

350 gallon stock tank? That's awesome! Sliders will benefit. They're big and messy...


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

First of all thank you very much for replying .

Good to know that they would at least survive and be OK with a bare bottom. The cichlids actually dig in the glass rocks that I have and search for food, but yea I bet sand would be a not more natural and not looks so cheesy.

OK so for the turnover rate am I looking at theoretical values before media/gravity/the real world or stated values? Because the advertised GPH on the Rena XP4 is 450GPH (advertised as up to 265Gallons) divided by 55 gallons equals 8.18 times per hour (I think I did that right lol). BUT of course I measured my GPH with a bucket and was getting about 200GPH of flow so that would give me an actual turnover of less than 4 times per hour. Should I really need another XP4? seems excessive but hey if it's what it takes, then it is what it is? I had planned on just putting the Fluval U4 (260GPH advertised but it's an internal) back in the aquarium when I got my XP3 (350 GPH) for my 40 gallon breeder, but maybe I should pick up another canister filter for the 55 as well? let me know.

I will fill her up to the top, I had never had it full to the top before so I filling it slowly as for some reason I'm afraid something bad will happen if I fill it all the way to the top. My aquarium is slightly unlevel but I'm hoping that it isn't unlevel enough to make a big difference.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

You're fine for now with your filtration. Certainly better off once you get that internal in there. Once the fish start getting bigger, you may find it's not cutting it. Just check your water periodically.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Ok awesome. I try to keep my nitrates lower than 40 for sure as an absolute max but usually under 20.

One more question, I've never had to deal with making a drastic enviroment change with fish ever so do I need to remove the fish when I take out the current decorations/rocks and add the sand and holy rock? I wouldn't want to stress them out or hurt them. Some local guy is selling holy rock for 40 bucks a tractor bucket, whatever that is but it sounds like a good deal?


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Fill your tank all the way to the top. More water volume is better for the fish. Also, the output of the filter should be aimed along the surface of the water, to create surface agitation. You want as much surface agitation as possible.

Your substrate looks like it would be difficult to vaccuum. That's not a good thing. you should switch to something like pool filter sand.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Ok I have some slight rippling action goinf across the entire surface as is but I'll move the output further up. Do I need to move the fish before I add the sand? The way I have it it is a little difficult to vacuume as I have to take out a lot of the bigger rocks but guess I was just used to it. I qill be switching to pool filter sand shortly. If I have to move the fish how should I do it? The 2 liter fish trap thing? Nets? Then I have to put them in my 40 gallon breeder and then catch them all over again! ! Lol.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Catch the fish out, put them in bags and float the bags in the tank to keep them at the correct temperature. Rinse the living **** out of the sand before using it or it will cloud the water. Turn the filters off and carefully pour the sand into the tank. Make sure it's all settled, then turn the filters on. There may still be slight clouding to the water. Wait for it to dissipate before releasing the fish again.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/videos/rinsing_sand.php

A video about rinsing sand.

I prefer pouring small amounts of sand at a time into a large bucket, putting the bucket under the faucet and turning the faucet on. Turn the bucket at a 45 degree angle so water is constantly pouring out of it. Now just stir the sand and run your hand through it constantly for about 5-10 minutes until the water running out of the bucket is crystal clear. Then add the sand to the tank.

Slight rippling is not enough surface movement. You want really noticeable surface movement.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Ok awesome I can't wait, maybe I'll go pick up the sand today as I'm off from work for a week for the holidays. How much sand should I get? I figured at least two 50 LB bags? I have no idea how much is needed and I'm pretty sure I could be off by a lot. Also do they sell the bags to put the fish in? I will just float them in my 40 gallon as the water parameters are the same, even the temp.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Just go to your local pet store and ask for a bunch of large fish bags, and get some elastic bands. Best way to tie them. 
One 50LB bag of pool filter sand should be more than adequate for your 55 gallon. You don't want the sand bed too deep, or anaerobic pockets will delelop with things like hydrogen sulphide in them. Once you have sand remember to vaccuum it regularly (just the surface) by holding the syphon about 1/2" away from the sand and going over poop etc and sucking it up. Also, after cleaning the surface of the sand, run your fingers through all of it. This removes any trapped gases.

A 55G is 48"x12". My tank is 30"x12" and I barely used half the bag of sand. If you're only 18" longer than me then I imagine you'll need 4/5ths of the bag or so. Aim for about 1 to 1.5" of sand thickness.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Ok cool, on my way to the hardware store to pick up the sand now.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Hardware store? No. Pool supply store. You want pool filter sand.

You should also hit a landscaping yard or better yet, a cut stone yard. They sell hundreds of kinds of stone. You can pick up a trunk-load of really attractive rocks for $40. 10 cents a pound, not $3 a pound like at the pet shop.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

I got quick right pool filter sand, it was like 5 bucks. I don't know where there is a pool store here. Lol actually where I live we don't even have one single stop light, just a flashing light and a railroad crossing arm things, and 2 stores and a post office lol. I'm sure San Antonio (35 miles away) has a pool store but I already knew were the home depot was so I went there.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

And I was just going to go with a tractor bucket full of holy rock for 40 bucks. I'll just keep the extra for outside or something.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Sounds like a plan! Holey rocks are good.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

still cloudy as I just put the sand in, how's this? I know I still have to add more water and move the filter a little bit. I have the filter off now until the sand clears a bit.


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Don't leave the filter off for more than an hour or so. The beneficial bacteria will die.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Is my output high enough relative to the water line? I'm going to add water after I feed them. 

Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Darn as I filled up the aquarium it became apparent how unlevel my tank was. The water level has a differnece of about a quarter of am inch from right to left. How bad is that?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about it. One of my tanks is a smidge uneven.

Sand looks good. Now you just need some rocks!


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Thanks, I'll be sure to get some holy rock ASAP and have a proper Cichlid tank :-D, I really like the sand, the cichlids look brighter and thier barring looks more distinctive if that even makes sense.

So you think it would be OK to add the 3 more inches of water without it toppling over and smashing me under it as I am watching the fish lol? Ha guess I'm just a bit paranoid.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

It looks so much better with the sand! That project was well worth the effort, in my opinion. It's also fun to see the fish spit and move the sand around, they really like it.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Yea I think they do enjoy the sand more even though they would dig through the rocks too. The sand does definitely look better, I'll post better pics after a bit, you know since the water will be clearer.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Just fed and topped off the water, but still doesn't look bad at all. The aquarium looks bigger all the way filled. Lol.


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Looks much better! Any way you could lose that rubber tubing for your return? Just dump it right at the surface. If you don't have the stock fittings from the filter then just make something out of PVC.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

I'm not confident enough to make anything out of PVC, kind of sad but it's true lol. Good idea though, I will see if I can find either the stock fitting online or a compatible one. As long as it's made for the same inside diameter it should be fine right? I also need to get a taller stand so I can actually get my filter under it.

My cousin brought me a holy rock that he said I can use. It needs a little cleaning but it should do the job I suppose.


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


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## albita (Oct 12, 2013)

Nice! Best way I found to clean the holy rock was at the car wash. Just put it down on a tarp or something and use the power spray (no soap, obviously). I then bleached mine with a 10% bleach solution and then let it soak in extra-dechlorinated water and then dry completely. If you decide you need more, you can get some at a local landscape supply store (there is one in Selma as well as SA). You can PM me if you want the name of where I went. It was something like $0.15 per pound .


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## cichlidfry (Nov 25, 2013)

Tank is looking great!

From my understanding when I did mine was to use a light covering called egg crate for the bottom of the tank.

Cut it to fit bottom of tank then put your rock on top of it before you put the sand in. Then put the sand in this is because your cichlids like to dig in the sand and can dig under the rock which will and can topple over if you do stack the rocks .This way they have no way of digging under the rock. Maybe you already knew this but thought I would throw it out there.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

No I did not know this. I've heard of people using light diffuser (I think this is the same "egg crate" that you mentioned) for different things like dividers for bigger fish, and for basking docks for turtles by either ziptieing them into a box shape with a ramp or using PVC and a ramp. Well I already have the sand in. I reckon I may be able to push it down through the sand?


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## cichlidfry (Nov 25, 2013)

Yeah I did this for mine and glad I did because mine have been digging under the rocks mine are staked.It also distributes the weight of the rock on the bottom of the tank glass and keeps the rocks off the glass.


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## cichlidfry (Nov 25, 2013)

Hope this pic work first time trying to post a pic with my phone. But you can see the egg crate on the bottom of my tank.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Awesome I will have to go pick some up. I heard it's inexpensive?


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

You don't need to use egg crate/light diffuser under your rocks. You already put your sand down. Don't disturb your fish any more than you need to. Just don't go nuts with the rocks.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Egg crate under the substrate is a personal choice. The engineers will tell you there is no advantage. The important thing is to put your rocks in first and substrate on top. This is so the fish cannot dig the substrate under the rocks and topple them. If the sand is already in, scrape it away, put your rocks on the glass, and then rescape the sand.


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## cichlidfry (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes you can just move the sand then put the rock on glass. How every you want bit just don't set them on top of the sand. They will dig and dig and dig then the rocks will topple. Better to be safe then sorry is how I like to be.


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## cichlidfry (Nov 25, 2013)

They love to dig! This was all flat and every time I do a water change I make it flat again then the next day they dig it right back up. Lol



This was just a little cave now it's bigger and goes all the way through. Lol


Here is one more that was flat and no it all dug out even under some of the rock . They are little earth movers lol but fun to watch them dig. 


So if you stack the rocks just make sure the bottom rocks are on flat surface so they can dig under them.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Wow that is amazing. Mine have dug a little but nothing compared to that. I am astonished about how much they can dig. I posted a question about how to clean my holy rock in the decoration area on the forum if anyone has any tips. This rock has mud caked on so hard. It's almost as hard as a rock. A screwdriver and a rubber hammer may work but talk about tedious. The car wash pressure washer didn't even loosen up the mud at all. This rock ia kicking my butt.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

You're definitely going to want to get the rocks totally clean before you add them to the tank. It might be a massive PITA by the sounds of it.


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## cichlidfry (Nov 25, 2013)

Have you went and looked at the rock that was for sale? They might be a lot cleaner and a lot less hassle then trying to clean that one. Then later you could work on this one if you want it in your tank.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Well someone told me that it wasn't mud at all, rather it was a mineral deposit.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

I had two people tell me that it was mineral deposit and that a pressure wash from the car wash with just water was fine, that the rock should be good to go. So go I went. I think the fish even colored up a bit when they saw it!!!


new rock by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


new rock by philipgonzales3, on Flickr

Socolofi at the bottom looks darker, slightly more distinct barring?


new rock by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


new rock by philipgonzales3, on Flickr

Cynotilapia Zerbrodies (at the bottom) definitely had a bit of darker barring appearing


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr

Even the paler socolif has some barring going on.


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr

The slight color changes are probably not permanent as of now, but sure is enough to get me exited. I have seen them do this a little before but it seemed more pronounced and more fish this time. or is it just the lighting/shadows? well either way they look better to me now. even the yellow labs seem to be brighter but that may be the placebo effect lol.


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## cichlidfry (Nov 25, 2013)

The cichlids look happy!! Having a hole in a rock to call their own makes them happy. Looks good in your tank! Very nice!!


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Yea, I think they are surely happy with the change. First the sand then the holy rock. I'm not done yet as I plan on switching to just holy rocks and then upgrading to a 75 gallon eventually and then I get to add more sand and holy rock all over . Just glad they are OK for now.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I'm not a big fan of holey rock, but that piece looks good in the tank. Good choice.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Thanks :-D, I still have a lot to learn so I have to stick with the basics now. Can't get much easier than putting a rock in that serves as thier homes without aqua-scaping and worring about the structure of the rocks/stones. I belive it will also help stabalize or raise the PH some? My PH is 7.5 so it's a little low so this may help to get it higher if i'm correct without doing anything silly like adding extra "junk" to the tank and complicating the water chemistry. I say complicating because I am not knowledgeable enough to know what is in these products and the side effect. But anyway, my girlfriend picked the orientation of the rock, if it was me I would have had it turned around to the side that isn't as discolored. I think she was right in picking this side though. Would a 4th species be able to be added in a 75 gallon? Lol I've definitely got the aquarium bug . I only have a 55 and a 40 now, with a 350 gallon stock tank on the horizon...ahh who knows what else the future holds. Lol sorry for rambling, just feels good to make progress, even though where I'm at may be the starting point for someone else. I actually started a few months ago with a 10 gallon aquarium and two red ear slider juvenille turtles with no knowledge of a aquarium cycle, or how much space the turtles needed. Then i bought some feeder minnows after I fixed the turtles habitat by getting the 55 gallon amd getting proper filtration and other parameters fixed. I really enjoyed the minnows and still have 4 out of 8 left that haven't been eaten. Then I bough Mbuna and I feel so lucky that I actually have such beautiful fish in my home (well my mom's house but still lol). I've never really had other pets before but I can tell you the wait was worth it because the fish and turtles I keep are wonderful. Haha sorry once again for rambling, I just feel lucky to be where I am now, and to have these forums available for learning. .


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## cichlidfry (Nov 25, 2013)

I started with a 10 gal a year a go when my son moved out of state and couldn't take it with. Bad mistake LOL. Six months later bought a 55 from a buddy's son then bought two more tens. Then I traded a tent for another 55 gal lol my mbuna tank. So now I have two 55s and one 10 with fish and the other 10 for a QT Tank. My next tank will be a 300 gal Mbuna tank that's when I'll buy a casket because my wife will kill me!! Lmao You. An use crushed coral to raise the ph from what I understand. Mine comes out of the tap high but I also have big dry coral that came with the tank in there. My PH is stead at 8.0 give or take.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Haha that's awesome. My girlfriend supports my addiction so I'm lucky, so I might as well go crazy while I can lol.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

You did a very nice job on the tank by eliminating the glass 'marbles' and switching it out for pool filter sand. The rocks look great and the fish look happy to be swimming in and out of the holes.

Your pH is just fine at 7.5, as long as it remains in that general range. Does the pH from the tap also register at 7.5? If it does, check a sample from your aquarium after a couple days and see if it is still 7.5. If it is, you won't have to make or buy any buffers for your aquarium water.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Thank you, I'm glad it turned out good. It wasn't very hard to do and I'm sure the fish like it too. I will be eventually eliminating the other decorations and adding more rocks soon enough, but as they are juvenilles I think they are OK for now. They absolutely love the rocks, I had a few people ask me where all my fish went!! Haha but I like to see them slowly poking thier heads out of the holes and darting through them. I think they sleep in thier as I had to turn on the lights for something and thier were no fish in sight. Before they would "sleep" at all levels of the water so I'm sure they are more comfy now.

Yea and my PH is 7.5 out of the tap and it still reads 7.5 in the aquarium after being set up for a few months. I checked it about a week ago. I just thought holy rock raises the PH slightly, but bot sure if I am remembering correctly as I skim through a lot of forums and websites. Not really trying to alter my water paramters as I was told 7.5 is fine, just was wondering more than anything. Thanks for all the feedback from everyone who posted, made me feel like I did a good job, and you all kept me on track ;-). It's been a fun process and i'll continue to learn and improve my aquariums and knowledge.


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