# illy-d's 75g Central American Tank



## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

A short while ago I moved and had to sell off all but one of my Tanks (a 20g). It's hard to go from having a 135, 90, 2 x 20, and a 10 to just a 20g tank - but that's life.

I recently purchased a 75g tank and I am in the process of setting up a Central American themed tank. I don't know if this will technically be a 'bio-tope' as I am planning on adding some plants and fish that may not be native to Central America.

I struggled for weeks with what sort of tank to do. It was only recently that I settled on CA, and it was just today that I chose my specific direction.

My tank will hopefully be built around a 'pair' of Nics... I chose to go this route for a few reasons. Primarily the parental habbits of cichlids has fascinated me for as long as I've been in the hobby, secondly Nics are not very common in my area and they are a truly stunning fish - and from what I have read they are generally not as aggressive as some of the other CA cichlids... We shall see I guess...

So today I stood and watched the Nics for a good half hour and ended up noticing a few potential pairs and from that was able to sort of discern which fish were males and females - I had the clerk catch me the largest of each, so hopefully they will eventually form a pair for me... I measured both fish before putting them in my tank and the suspected female is a little over 4" TL and the suspected male is a little under 5" (which was shocking as he looks noticably larger).

Here is a photo of the tank right now - it's still a work in progress and over the next few hours, days, weeks I will be making some improvements and additions;










Filtration is currently handled by a Rena XP3 (with media from a mature tank containing bacteria). Heater is a 250w Stealth, temp is 80 F (shooting for 79 F on the little red twist knob). I have an AC 300 that I may add later (I should be getting about 4x turn over at the moment). Light is a 48" dual T5 strip with a 10,000k bulb and an Actinic bulb (that was the only bulb combo they had at the LFS - I can buy a replacement bulb for the actinic from a hydroponic shop later if I choose). The tank contains about 145lbs of river rock and 50lbs of Target brand Playsand (man that stuff is dirty).

In a few hours I will be adding a colony of Ameca Splendens which I am picking up from a local breeder. These fish are apparently from CA, but reportly extinct in the wild. I plan on keeping a few mature adults in my 20g to ensure I can keep these guys for awhile (I don't know if Nics are piscevores or not).

Tomorrow Iam picking up a few bunches of Valisnaria (not sure if this plant is indigenous to CA or not) to plant along the back. On the weekend I am adding some driftwood and a black background - which I expect will greatly improve the look of the tank.

I will try to get some shots of the Nics as soon as I can. They've been in the tank but a few hours and pretty much remain hidden. They have each claimed a cave and from time to time they swim out far enough to let me see their heads just past the gill plates...

After I finish the hardscape I plan to wait before introducing any more fish. My plan (which is adaptable) is to see how these Nics make out... If they look like they are pairing up - great. They can grow into this tank with the Splendens... If they are not a pair, or don't appear to be close to spawning I may add up to 2 more cichlids. I would like to try a Firemouth as I have never kept them and I will probably go with a male convict if I feel I need a good foot soldier to perhaps provide the Nics with some 'friendly' competition. Single Convicts are great - they are inexpensive and easy to give away for free if you need to, yet they are rugged enough to withstand pressure from other larger cichlids and you know exactly what your getting... And to be honest the male convicts I have had in the past have been good tankmates as long as you keep female cons out of the equation... Again, I'll just play it by ear... I am also planning on adding a BN pleco at some point - and maybe a catfish? Are there any catfish from CA? If not I may go with a Raphael talking Catfish (either spotted or striped).

Sorry for the incredibly longwinded post. I will do my best to update with pictures as frequently as possible... Once I get half decent shots of the Nics we can play the 'sex my fish' game!

Cheers,

Daryl


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## imusuallyuseless (Dec 28, 2005)

Definitely know what it's like to have to give up all of your tanks and start over. I went from 500G of water down to 40G when I moved across the state to move in w/my then fiancee(now wife).

Anywhooo, So far it looks WAY better than the 75G I'm throwing together to replace my 50G. For an entire day my fish had to stay in a 5G bucket, and I unfortunately lost a pink con and my larger festae. I moved the fish into the tank quickly after that, but due to time constraints it just sat w/water only for another day. Yours is really coming along nicely :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Wish I had nics :-?


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## klumsyninja (Aug 14, 2008)

Nice Tank and nice Lights.

Personally I would've painted the back of the tank black (especially with a window behind it) and I would have piled the rocks more naturally looking..

Can't wait to see it with wood and plants in there, sounds like it's going to be a really nice looking tank.

I've never had any of those fish so I can't comment on the fish..


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

klumsyninja said:


> Nice Tank and nice Lights.
> 
> Personally I would've painted the back of the tank black (especially with a window behind it) and I would have piled the rocks more naturally looking..
> 
> ...


What I am going to do with the back is use some velcro to attach black fabric across the back of the tank - of course because it's in front of a window having a black back will lead to some over heating problems in the summer so the fabric will be double sided and be white on the outer side to reduce heat absorption... Had I used paint I would have to do at least 5 or 6 coats of black and then probably 10 or more coats of white on top of the black to accomplish the same thing... I've painted all of my tanks previously - but figured fabric would be easier/faster in this instance.

I struggled with rock placement... I would like something more natural, but at the same time I want something that affords the fishes cover... It will undoubtedly be changed the first time I do major maintenance!!!


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

I've just introduced 24 Ameca Splendens of various size (adult to juvie). I know I have at least 4 big males and 6 females.

They've been in the tank about 30 minutes and already the Nics are venturing out of their hiding places more - so I guess the 'dithering' is in effect.

I'll snap some pics after it gets dark to improve the quality...


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

The change in these two Nics after the introduction of the Ameca Splendens was amazing... Granted the Nics had been in the tank for a few hours prior, but all of a sudden they were out and about... And then the chasing began :lol:

The larger Nic (suspected male) was chasing the smaller Nic (suspected female) relentlessly for some time. Then he began chasing the Ameca Splendens... Then his attitude towards the Amecas changed and he started 'stalking' them...

It was at this point I decided I would try dropping in some sinking NLS pellets to see if they would eat. At first it was only the male who would gobble the pelets off the sand (almost in the same manner as an Earth eater which is different then what I've seen in other CA's; JD's & Convicts)... Then the chasing began again - but in the second round the smaller Nic stood up to the larger one on occassion and they would go side by side and flare at one another.

Tell me what sex you think these guys are...

Suspected male;

























Suspected female;

















The two (suspected male in front);


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

I think you are correct on your sexing. They should color up nicely once they settle in to be more sure.

Do you plan on upgrading tank size? I cant imagine a 10" fish in a 20g tank.

....Bill


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## pugwash (Sep 11, 2006)

The OP has a 75G, not a 20G now.

Will certainly be following this, as your previous 135G was an inspiration for me. Good start.

Hope the Ameca splendens do well - mine didn't fair too well with a bossy FM, when my tank had CA's in it.

Although I planted my tank first, before putting the fish so the plants had established roots - you may have a few days of floating vallis...


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

pugwash said:


> The OP has a 75G, not a 20G now.
> 
> ...


Woops. My bad. I thought it looked kinda big for a 20. 

....Bill


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Thanks for the replies.

Bill; I spent a good amount of time watching these fish in the store and was able to notice some different markings and behaviours... I wasn't sure which were males and which were females, but I was pretty confident I had identified differences which I then used to select 2 fish... I actually read your thread when I got home to help determine (in my mind) which was which...

Pugwash; Glad my 135 inspired you - I loved that tank! I know what your saying about the plants and if I'm to be truthful with you my plan was to have the plants in long before any fish - and then the Amecas were going to be the firsh fish additions... Needless to say the urge to stock once I had the tank almost done was too much. The funny thing is it sat empty on the stand in my living room for 4 weeks prior to adding any water... It lasted less then 4 days once I filled it for the first time! I know I will be struggling with planting now.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Pleasantly surprised this morning to notice I suffered no losses to the Ameca Splendens over night... It's been my experience in the past that when the lights go out the hunting starts.

Done some more research on the Ameca Splendens and apparently they prefer stronger currents so once I can establish the plants I will add the AC300 as well.


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## Vincent (May 7, 2004)

nicaraguensis are not very effective predators. I dumped some surplus fry into my nicaraguensis tank and they may have eaten a few of them, but most of them eventually grew too large for them to eat. I've noticed that my nicaraguensis tend to be fairly shy, although I don't keep any dither fish with them. I might have to give A. splendens a try. I'd be interested to hear how they work out for you in the long run.

Sexual differentiation will become clearer with larger fish, but basically males will have spots on their dorsal fins and females will have more solid, iridescent dorsal fins.

Males:


















Female:


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Those are nice looking fish Vincent - I hope mine grow into that.

I've got my backgroundand hope to get it on in the next hour or so... I have plans to pick up some plants tonight so hopefully things will look better in their pretty soon.

I'll update with photos later.

Also Vincent, in response to your comments about Nics being poor predators I have some thoughts I'd like to share - stay tuned...


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Alright so I have a moment to type my thoughts about Nics... Most cichlids are opportunistic and even those that are not dedicated piscovores (sp?) will take advantage of an easy meal in the form of an easy to catch fish... However most piscovores have a more streamlined shape to their bodies - which Nics definately do not have... They do remind in their general shape and in some of their behaviour like some South American Eartheaters - specifically Gymonogeophagines... Also from what I have read these guys (Nics) are the only CA cichlid with non-adhesive eggs and they routinely take their eggs into their mouths and move them from pits to caves and vice versa... It makes me wonder if this is the evolutionary step between traditional cave/open spawners and mouthbrooders? Are there any Eartheaters from CA (Is Robertsoni considered an 'eartheater?)? I've noticed these guys sift the substrate much more then Convicts or JD's... Anyhow those are my thoughts - and I don't want to imply that I'm the first to consider such things, only that I'm knew to these guys and have noticed this thus far... I still have lots to learn about this Species and welcome any and all comments.
Cheers,

Daryl


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I think you are on with your sexing too, but it won't take too much longer to find out for sure.

Both _Thorichthys_ and _Astatheros_ are central american sand sifters. The term 'eartheater' is generally reserved for members of the Geophagine group, of which there is one in Central America: _Geophagus crassilabris_ which is an advanced mouthbrooder.

While I've never noticed nics sifting as much as firemouths or robertsoni, they certainly seem to do more so than members of convict family or viejas or other groups of centrals.

PS: It is hard to make stacked rocks look natural, as you said you'll probably fiddle with it a bunch. I know I did with my river rock.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Thank you for the info dwarfpike... I'm only able to compare these guys with the 2 other CA's I've kept... That's interesting about the Thorichthys being sand sifters - I love that behavior personally... Do you think that I could add a FM even if it's only short term? If these Nics pair up while still small could a FM withstand their pressure? Obviously as they grow they will demand more of the tank for themselves and I would adjust accordingly...

Anyhow here are some more pics - I've fiddled with the rocks in the middle (which were the most offensive IMO). I don't think I am done yet with the stones but I want to get the wood into the mix before I fiddle to much.


















So I've got several bits of valisnaria and the guy was nice enough to throw in 3 different 'stem' plants... I'm not a plant guy (other then the unkillable Java Fern & Anubias) but I thought what the heck I'll try these out. I don't know what they are but if anybody is really interested I will ask the guy what they are called.










This is a terible photo of a male Ameca Splendens but you can see the yellow band on the caudal tail - which is actually quite pretty...









In a short while I will probably be adding a BN Pleco - unless anybody can suggest a CA pleco that stays small and does a half decent job at eating Algae... I've actually read they Ameca Splendens will eat algae so I am going to wait and see - and then add the pleco only if required.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

I was wondering if anybody can fill me in on the courtship ritual of Nics.

My two don't seem to be that interested in each other but my male is busy excavating a pit/cave and I am wondering if this a precursor to courtship.

I know it's common with African cichlids for the males to build a nest or pit to attract females, but in my experience with New World cichlids I've noticed that the pair is usually formed prior to the nest building/pit digging.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Alright so after watching them for awhile more it is clear that the male is the boss of the tank. He's dug himself the tightest little cave that he can hardly squeeze into. If he goes in forward he has to back out. He'll chase the Amecas and the female Nic.

The female for her part is spending a lot of time up near the filter outlet in a corner - which is never a good sign. Her fins look okay but she's obviously been cowed by the male.

I'm thinking I could try 3 things;

1). Add another cichlid that can divert some of the males attention away from her. Or this could back fire if the other cichlid just took over another part of the tank giving her fewer areas of refuge. If I did this I was thinking a Firemouth may be an interesting choice. I would pick a FM that is slightly smaller then the female Nic. A convict is another option but the FM I hear is less robust and therefore less likely to dominate the female Nic (in theory).

2). Add another female Nic. This could have the same pros & cons of option 1 but with the added benefit of giving the male Nic his choice of mate.

3). Wait and see. The situation could resolve itself, or it could deteriorate. It's the most passive course of action but at the same time it is the hardest to do because it's like I'm doing nothing.

At any rate the rest of my weekend is booked so I won't be doing any of these until Monday at the earliest. Hopefully some 'Nic experts' will chime in with their opinions by then.

-D


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## pugwash (Sep 11, 2006)

My gut feeling is to go with adding another female nic, and letting the male nic have a choice of ladies (and remove the one he doesn't bond with).

Adding an FM could just do nothing more than to try an enforce an incompatible pairing.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

I'm leaning that way... But with almost all cichlids con-specific aggression is higher... Which means the 3rd wheel fish may get a beat down so I have to be prepared to act fast... This is one of those reasons why it's good to work from home.

Interestingly she was standing up to him today and they had a few stare downs, flare ups and lip locking...


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Okay so I've had some time to watch these guys today and my female is standing up to the male now. In fact when he charges as her and they have a stare down he will be the one to back down first. That said, he is still the agressor - but she's not up in the corner and she has to have her own end of the tank now so I'm going to keep playing it by ear and hopefully not have to add any more fish...

After a few days in the tank their true colours are starting to show and these guys are quite pretty. My male has a lot of blue, red, and yellow highlights, the female has a lot of very bright metallics in her dorsal fin... I'll try and get some pics up soon, but as you can tell from my other photos my camera skills are not that good... I don't know that I can capture their true beauty on pixel.


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

Good to hear the female seems to be out of hot water, so to speak...at least for the time being. I sure hope it stays that way---I was getting worried when you told us about her hanging out up in the corner of the tank (which, as you pointed out, is often the beginning of the end).

They're gorgeous fish...thanks to all who have posted Nic pics.
Scaping in your tank now looks much better than the initial layout with the river rock. I'll be looking forward to seeing it evolve, and I know you'll be keeping us updated. Have fun with the setup! :thumb: 
BV


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Things are still good this morning. Last night there was A LOT of flaring and 'head butting' (with no actual contact - just darting in & out, gills flared).

The male chases the Ameca Splendens a bit but as far as I can tell I have had no losses so far (it's hard to count 24 or 25 small fish accurately).

Here are some things I have noticed about Nics thus far;

Male: unpaired fins are predominantly yellowish with dark spots. The dorsal has a hint of red near the back of the fin. Digs a lot - prefers to excavate tight little caves that he can barely squeeze into. This should help with future aquascaping as I don't have to worry as much about creating caves. Scales on posterior portion of body have a darker edging to them.

Female: fins are mostly clear - except for the dorsay which is highly metallic. broad stripe travels length of entire body. Below this stripe belly is reddish. Not as much of a digger. prefers to swim behind caves and in and out of plants. Seems less interesting in chasing the dither fish then the male does.

I can also add that both fish are very active now. They were in the tank about 6 to 8 hours before I added the Ameca Splendens and barely came out of hiding. Since that point they barely go into hiding. This could be coincidental, but I get the feeling the presence of other, smaller fish makes these guys more confident.


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## Vincent (May 7, 2004)

Thanks for posting your notes about keeping Ameca splendens with them. I keep 1M+2F nicaraguensis with 7 other small/medium Cryptoheros-type cichlids in a 125G tank and they are always nervous. I'll have to keep my eye out for some goodeid tankmates for them.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Vincent said:


> Thanks for posting your notes about keeping Ameca splendens with them. I keep 1M+2F nicaraguensis with 7 other small/medium Cryptoheros-type cichlids in a 125G tank and they are always nervous. I'll have to keep my eye out for some goodeid tankmates for them.


Hi Vincent. I'm learning about Ameca Splendens at the same time... They are not the most colourful livebearer to be sure but they are active. The males quarrel amongst themselves and will often chase the females - I assume in an effort to breed. The young (which I have plenty of ranging in size from 2cm to sub-adult) will often school together near the water surface looking for food. They are responsive fish (more so then say tetras or barbs) and they all come to the side of the tank when I walk in the room. They are apparently always hungry as well and they wait expectantly at the surface when I open the lid.

In the future I may move some of these guys to a seperate tank and see how they act with other community fish - I have read some reports that suggest they can be nippy.

If/when I do this I hope to add some more colourful swordtails (orange would be a good contrast) to add flavour and variety to my tank.

Plants: The Nics eat the stem plants I have in there (2 of the varieties anyhow). The Amecas seem to nibble at the vals but I don't know if they are actually doing any damage.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Okay so I took a few more pics this morning. I wish I new how to use my camera so I could take decent photos of these guys as they do look a little better in real life... Also I may play around with new bulbs for the lights (currently have a 10,000k & Actinic) to see if that can enhance the colour that is already there...

Hereis the pair squaring off in the females turf...









Heres a couple more of the female - she is settling in nicely after a day or two of being chased. She seems to have claimed this side of the tank (left). She has also started digging a bit - I don't think it's necessarily breeding behaviour at this point, I think she's just getting comfortable...

















The male seems to be more settled as well. He's claimed about half the tank as his own but he does 'patrol' the rest of the tank and confront the female on her turf...
In this photo you can see one of the tight little caves he's dug out beneath the stones. You can also see the hint of red on his dorsal fin...









In this picture he is in front of and above his main cave - he's dug this little cave beneath the stones I have laid out to make a cave - I guess he can do a better job then I can of decorating to his tastes...









When I started this thread I was really wanting to add more cichlid species with these guys... If I had of got them when they were younger and smaller that may have been a decent option, but after watching these guys for 4 or 5 days now I'm glad I didn't. Between the two of them they have about 90% of the tank bottom divided up which wouldn't leave much room for other cichlids... I'm not saying that a 75g is the minimum for a pair of these guys but I do think (now) that a 4 foot tank is ideal... My male is only about half grown and I think he will be a presence in this tank in a few years time!

I may be able to pull off more dithers as these guys don't harass the Ameca Splendens too much. They chase them now and again but not since the first night have I seen any 'predatory' behaviour - I think they've given up to be honest... When my Ameca's drop their first batch of fry it will be interesting to see if the Nics go for them...

Thanks for looking.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

I woke up this morning to my first loss  A very pregnant Ameca Splendens.
I can't know for sure but it doesn't look like she was eaten or tattered so I can't blame the cichlids - I just don't know why she died.

I fished her out and her fins and eyeballs were in tact and her belly was as well for the most part - there were some very small nibbles that looked too little for the Nics to have caused so it could have been the other Amecas... I'll probably never know.

Anyhow I bought two very neat looking pieces of manzanita wood last night. I'll put them in today and re-scape a bit. I will probably have to weigh these pieces down for awhile so this won't be my final scape by a long shot.

I'll get some pics up as soon as possible.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

I added the 2 manzanita pieces I picked up yesterday. Unfortunately they still float so I had to weigh them down.

















I did a large water change at the same time and as soon as I started refilling the tank the Nics were going at it... Lip locking, body slapping, shimmying side by side etc. The female has gotten more territorial and in this sort clip you can see how she initiates some sparring with the male when he comes over to 'her' side of the tank.






She's busy excavating in her cave as I sit here and type. The male seems to really like the nooks and crevices under the stones holding the wood in place. I really think this tank needs a little more colour and I am seriously considering getting some Swordtails... Maybe next week or on the weekend.


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## pugwash (Sep 11, 2006)

Looking good, especially if the wood come from the top down like tree roots, in time. Although it can be a pita waiting for it to soak....certainly been there.

Enjoying the journal with the behavioual changes/observations. :thumb: Nice vid too.

You've obviously researched these fish - are they polygamous or monogamous, as there appears to be a LOT of conflicting info on nics on the web.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

All I can tell you is what I've read and the consensus seems to be that they are monogamous - but there are conflicting reports... In my case if they spawn they will have to be monogamous as I've put off the notion of adding another female for now... They do appear to be warming up to each other - but this is slower then what I've seen with cons, but it could end up being faster then what I have seen with JD's or Severums (if they actually do spawn within a month or 5 weeks that is).


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Interesting update: These two are now exhibiting typical pre-spawn behaviour... The female is doing something I have never seen though - in addition to digging a pit by spitting sand with her mouth she is getting deep into the hole and shimmying her body and sending sand in all directions - almost like she's using her pectoral fins as shovels. I've never seen that before.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

So I bought a new 6400k bulb which I am now using in place of the Blue Actinic. Personally I like it better.









Even though you can't really tell the new bulb combo (10,000k & 6400k) brings out the colours in the fish better as well;

































No updates on the 'pairing' front - but these two seem to be involved in the most drawn out love affair ever. They are definately interested in each other and going through all the motions but no tube is evident yet.

They spend almost all of their time flaring, body slapping and circling one another - except during feeding where it seems to be each fish for themselves. Water changes seem to increase their activity as well - and they aren't afraid of the python one bit.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

They are looking good *illy-d* ... the colors deffinately look better under the new lighting. They are probably a touch young yet to 'get it right' though. Patience young padawan. :lol:


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## pugwash (Sep 11, 2006)

Gotta agree on the lighting - does look a lot warmer now :thumb: Never been a fan of actinic's - just seems to wash colours out (except blue) and make the lighting look almost ghostly. The current setup certainly seems to make your nics look great.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Thank you!


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Thank you!


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Update!

We have a Spawn!!!

Well, maybe not technically a spawn - sometime this morning one of my Ameca Splendens dropped some young. I can see 3 swimming up by the filter outlet - there could be more in the floating plants. These guys are pretty big probably 12 - 15mm TL.

They are being left alone at the moment - I wonder if they will make it? Apparently unlike many livebearers the parents don't prey on their young so unless the Nics get curious I expect they will make it.

I'll get some pics tonight when it's darker.


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## Mbuna Joe (Aug 8, 2006)

illy-d - that is one NICE SETUP!!!

I wonder if Ameca splendens would work with Severums.

Great job on the tank, good luck.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

So I bought some new additions for the tank. I was originally planning on adding Sword Tails but I was having trouble finding ones that I liked - I am hoping to get some juvie pineapple swords in June...

For now I added an interesting fish that fits the theme and is rarely seen in my area - American Flag fish. I just got an amzing deal on 5 of these guys so I couldn't really say no. From the reading I have done these fish are found as far south as the Yucatan peninsula.

I'll try to get some pics later.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

American flag fish are neat, and do a great job with hair algae. How are the nics doing? I know it's not dark for long now a days up here, but it's been a few since you were waiting for darkness!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Any prespawning behavior yet? How did are the flagfish doing with the nics and ameca?


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## newbiechick (Apr 2, 2009)

Glad I bumped into your thread illy-d. Beautiful tank, very minimalist which I really like. Might just copy the scaping :thumb: 
Any updates? and what are those floating plants?


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Hey guys - no photo updates, but only because I take terrible photos and don't have the patience to get good at it!

So here are some written updates;

The Ameca Splendens have added s few more fry to the mix as another female dropped some young...

The Ameca's aslo beat the **** out of the American Flagfish and killed 3 of the 4. The 4th was in such bad shape I couldn't risk putting him in my other tank (for fear that the he could spread some sort of secondary infection) so I was forced to remove and cull it.

The Nics are growing and despite spending 99% of their time together rubbing, flaring, slapping, and digging pits I don't know that I am any closer to getting a spawn then I was a month ago... Perhaps they've laid eggs and then eaten them right away - I really don't know.

The scape is a bit different now. The wood was water logged enough after 2 weeks that I removed the stones. I also tied some java ferns onto one of the longs - I think I will probably add some anubias as well.

The floating plants you see in the pics are just stem plants and valisnaria that the Nics uproot. I don't even bother planting the stem plants anymore I just let them float... I have found that since moving the rocks a few moreinches away from the valisnaria they are less likely to uproot it... I don't think they are digging the plants up intentionally - I just think they have an uncontrollable urge to excavate around every stone they can find. So moving the rocks away from the vals has actually kept them rooted - which is the exact opposite of what I thought would happen. Shows what I know!

I'm still missing some colour in the top part of the tank so I am definately adding swordtails or molly's in the future... Swordtails are my first choice but finding really nice ones is proving difficult... Mollies are a second choice because everything I have ever read tells me that they need some salt/brackish water to thrive... It's strange a few of the local stores have amazing looking mollies in stock but apparently they are tough to keep in freshwater? I'm going to find some local breeders and ask them their opinion on the matter...

That's all for now. Thank you for the interest and bumping my thread!

Cheers,

D


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Another update: I added 4 adult mollies today. 3 females (all a calico orange colour with black & white blotches), and 1 male (99% black with a yellow edge to his dorsal fin and some spangles on his flank).

I have a buddy coming over tomorrow - I'll try and get him to get some shots of the tank & fish...


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Finally - pics!!! They aren't the best, but they are better then nothing. A written update to follow.
Cheers, Daryl.

PS: Thanks for looking.

Full Tank SHots;

















Left Side;









Right Side;









Some of the inhabitants...
Molly (female, 1 of 2);









Thorichthys Pasionis (4 juvies added June 19, 2009);

















Male Nic;


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

It looks like the Pasionis are digging that val forest.

And the nic pic is great, showing amazing coloration!!. :thumb:


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

So heres a bit of what's going on... The stock list had grown to include a few new species from when I started. Most recently I added 4 juvenile Thorichthys Pasionis (Yellow Firemouth, Yellow Meeki, Black Gullet Cichlid are some of the common names). They range in size from 1.75" to 2.25" or so. I introduced them on Friday and they were promptly harrassed by the Ameca Splendens. I thought for sure I'd come home to find them beaten and bruised but last night when I got back they all looked good. Upon closer inspection this morning one of them does have a few tears in the caudal fin - nothing to be concerned about. They spend the majority of their time in the Valisnaria.

A couple weeks back I added 4 mollies. I lost one almost right away. I don't know why but I think it was partly due to the harrassment from the Ameca's. In case I haven't touched on it enough Ameca Splendens can be nasty little guys - very persitant nippers & chasers. More so then any species of Barb I have owned (Tiger, Gold & Rosey).

And a month or more ago I added a young hybrid Bristlenose Pleco who grew tremendously over the first few weeks he was in the tank (there was lots of green algae for him!). It took him about 1 year to grow from .75" to 2" and less then two months to grow from 2" to almost 4".

The Nics are growing and seem truly interested in each other but so far no luck with any spawning. The seem to go through the motions all the time but nothing has ever come of it. The male is increasingly bold and rules the tank. He doesn't actively harass or single out fish but he does on occassion give short little chases to keep everybody on their toes. If my wife watches the tank he stares her down and does threatenening displays. He's always out and about and curious about everything. A very personable fish. The female is a little more shy but still has lots of personality.

The Nics are determined burrowers and they like to redecorate constantly. I got sick of replanting the Vals every 2 days so last Friday I used some scrap egg-crate to fashion a kind of 'planter box' that protects the vals roots sytems - I then surrounded and covered the box with small stones to hopefully keep everything how I want it. So far so good.

Oh, one last thing. One of the Mollies looked to be holding on Friday. Today she is incredibly thin and looks how the Amecas look after dropping fry. I don't see any molly fry (and don't know what they would look like) so I presume they were eaten right away. I still have several Ameca fry that appear to be doing well.

I have decided that I am soon going to add an Aqua Clear 70. I'll wait a few weeks to ensure that the Vals are securely rooted before increasing the circulation... I'm also going to look into easy ways to buffer my water and get it a little harder and a little more alkaline.


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## pugwash (Sep 11, 2006)

Great looking setup - very envious of your Thorichthys Pasionis. If only they were sold more readily this side of the pond.

Will be looking forward to seeing how your tank matures. :thumb:


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

pugwash said:


> Great looking setup - very envious of your Thorichthys Pasionis. If only they were sold more readily this side of the pond.
> 
> Will be looking forward to seeing how your tank matures. :thumb:


Me too. From what I've read the Pasionis tend to be found in higher densities in the wild - so maybe I'll be able to keep more then 1 or 2... If I need to move some or all of them as they mature I will - this tank is all about the Nics (but one of the reasons I chose to keep Nics was their likelihood to allow for tankmates - compared to many of the other CA cichlids that get to more then 6").

I have to say that the activity provided by the Ameca Splendens really rounds out the tank. They make great dither fish and I'm sure they could be used as target fish as well... I can't say how long they would last with any of the Guapotes or cichlids known to prey on fish, but I would recommend them to anybody keeping convicts, firemouths, nics etc...


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## pugwash (Sep 11, 2006)

illy-d said:


> From what I've read the Pasionis tend to be found in higher densities in the wild - so maybe I'll be able to keep more then 1 or 2... If I need to move some or all of them as they mature I will


This true from what I've read, and the same for firemouths. With good filtration and aquascaping 8 FM's could be housed in a 55g but most people seem only keep pairs/singles due to conspecific aggression. I'd imagine similar with the pasionis.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Well I suffered a major loss today. My female Nic passed on. 

On Saturday everything was normal - her colour was good, she was eating... Yesterday (Sunday) I noticed she had gone ashy grey and lost a lot of colour. I watched her peridocally and she wasn't being harassed. That evening she was in hiding - from wedginf between rocks (which was fairly common actually) to hiding vertically in the valisnaria (never done that before).
This morning she was in a corner at the bottom still very grey and ashy with no colour... I came home after heading out for maybe 3 hours and she was on her side dead.

Not really sure what happened to her. From what I can tell she wasn't being picked on and was the 2nd largest fish in the tank by far. Up until 48 - 72 hours before her death she was acting normal and showing good colour. No other fish in the tank seem affected.


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

That really sucks. Keep your head up though.

...Bill


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

That's sad to hear, she was coloring up to be a beauty.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

I am undecided whether or not to replace her. For right now I think a wait and see approach is best - if nobody else in the tank goes down to a mystery illness I'll think about adding another female or maybe two (so the male can 'choose' his mate) in a couple of weeks...


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## newbiechick (Apr 2, 2009)

Tank looks fantastic, sorry about the female though...hate mystery deaths like these.
You're right about waiting and watching the other ones for any signs.
Maybe getting 2 females and waiting for a natural pairing might increase your chances of a spawn.

Keep us updated...


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

sorry to hear. keep us posted on what you do.


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