# 125g center braces



## Cognition (Oct 14, 2009)

So a buddy of mine just got a huge used aquarium collection, mostly 55g and 40g breeder... but there was one 125g. He was nice enough to practically give it to me($25) for helping him unload a trailer. It has no stand... no hood... nothing, but its glass, and holds water, good enough for me. My question tho is that it has no center braces... and there is no spots were they might have been. It is an older tank(probably 10+ years old) The glass is also pretty thick, I would guess at least 1/4 inch thick, but should I be concerned about the lack of braces? is there a DIY solution? will the canopy I am gonna have made take care of it?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Congratulations on the new tank! :thumb:

I wouldn't rely on a canopy to prevent your sides from bowing. For one, every time you take off the canopy for maintenance the sides will bow back out. This repetative bowing is worse than letting it stay bowed out.

1/4" glass seems pretty thin for a 125g tank. 55g tanks have 1/4" glass and they will bow out quite a bit without a center brace.

I would suggest replacing the top frame of the tank with one that has a center brace.

If you want to go for a DIY project you could create perimeter bracing around the top of your tank. Although it would be cheaper to just get the new plastic frame with center brace.

If you need a source for an new top frame I can pm you a link to the company that I bought my replacement 55g frame from.


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## Cognition (Oct 14, 2009)

I've heard that replacing the plastic rim can be horrid... The glass might be thicker, I know its probably twice as thick as the glass for my 75g. After I posted my origanal question, I found something about a "euro brace" witch sounds like what you described. Do you have an opinion/directions on those? If I were to go that route I'd probably just get the glass shop to cut it for me(I've never worked with glass)


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## Malawi_Junkie (Nov 26, 2009)

It depends on tank dimensions and glass size. If it never had bracing then it probably isn't necessary. If it is 1/2" glass I wouldn't worry unless it's over 6' in length but if it is 3/8" it might be a good idea, but it all depends on tank dimensions. Have a peice of glass cut that is the same thickness as the tank and silicone it in as a center brace if worried. If you want to replace the plastic trim it's quite easy if your not trying to salvage the old one, but make sure you know the glass size before ordering a new one.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Really old tanks were thicker and did not have center braces. Duct tape a yardstick horizontally near the top center of the front of the tank, taped only on one end. If the yardstick shows minimal bowing as you fill the tank, you don't need a center brace. If it's a bit older than you think, it could be it never had or needed a center brace.


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## Cognition (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm thanking it never had a center brace... there is no evidence of 1(or 2 from what I'm reading) ever being on the tank. I will defiantly do what you suggested with the yardstick. If it is going to bow, will it bow immediately or would the water weight gradually bow it out? And is it possible for me to fill it up then it explode? If it helps, the bottom pane doesn't have a center brace.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Even if it needs one or, most often, two center braces, It will not start to bow much until you reach the halfway point. If you see a quarter inch gap behind the untaped end of the three foot long stick, that is as full as you can safely fill that tank without adding cross bracing. Glass can bow slightly in safety, but a quarter inch bow in three feet is the most I would be OK with. After all, that means it's bowing that much on the back side too. I would rather see no more than an eighth inch. I replaced the center brace on my son's 300 and he took a video of it which he said he was going to post on utube. If he has, I'll post a link to it when he's back from vacation.


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## Cognition (Oct 14, 2009)

your son has a 300? man I'm jealous. I wont be able to set this 125 up untill I move out(soon I hope) But I would really appreciate seeing a video, so often I over-look the resource known as youtube.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Cognition said:


> your son has a 300? man I'm jealous. I wont be able to set this 125 up untill I move out(soon I hope) But I would really appreciate seeing a video, so often I over-look the resource known as youtube.


I helped him find it used, tank and stand $400. It took six guys to move the tank which was 600 pounds empty.

The previous owner was working on the tank and had set the metal halide light on the cross brace. The timer turned it on when he was distracted and the heat shattered the glass center brace. He decided after that happened to relegate his hobby to the basement only, and this tank would not go down his stairs.


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## Cognition (Oct 14, 2009)

That sucks about that halide, better for your son tho right?

Anyways I went to my grandmas(were the 125g is) and measured the glass, it is a half inch thick. I'm leaning towered putting some braces in it just as an extra precaution. This tank probably wont be ready to set up for a good year, if not longer, so I have plenty of time to get things going.

Thanks for everything McDaphnia, I really appreciate the advice. Please let me know if/when you get that video up of repairing the brace on that 300.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Cognition said:


> That sucks about that halide, better for your son tho right?
> 
> Anyways I went to my grandmas(were the 125g is) and measured the glass, it is a half inch thick. I'm leaning towered putting some braces in it just as an extra precaution. This tank probably wont be ready to set up for a good year, if not longer, so I have plenty of time to get things going.
> 
> Thanks for everything McDaphnia, I really appreciate the advice. Please let me know if/when you get that video up of repairing the brace on that 300.


At half inch thick, the tank never needed the cross braces, and doesn't need them to hold water. The one useful thing is that they may keep a strip light from falling in the tank. Of course never set lights, especially metal halide, directly on them.


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## dtang (Jan 30, 2004)

It might be a "critter tank," for reptiles or other animals, and might not have been intended for water. If that's the case, it does need a center brace.

I have a 60 gallon, which is just a few inches taller than a 55. The glass is slightly thicker than that of the 55 (and much heavier), but uses the same plastic top brace/frame. This past Saturday, while I was doing regular maintenance, I noticed that the plastic brace had cracked right in the center. The extra couple inches of hight apparently created a lot of pressure.

I'll try to post a DIY of a guy who removed the top frame, euro braced the tank, and put to frame back on.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... 300+gallon


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

dtang said:


> It might be a "critter tank," for reptiles or other animals, and might not have been intended for water. If that's the case, it does need a center brace. ....


Critter tanks have thinner glass than aquariums, not extra thick. If it were a critter tank, adding cross braces would not be good enough. It would still be unsafe with water in it.


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## Cognition (Oct 14, 2009)

So we now that we know its not a "critter tank" (i never thought it was to began with)

I have decided to tear the whole thing down and reseal it. I've never done this before, but for $25, this will be a great practice tank. From what I've read I shouldn't take the trim off, witch is good cause I really wanted to avoid taking it off. I also plan to put 2 braces on (6'' wide, 1/2'' thick) evenly across the tank. I can do that without removing the trim right? I've also considered getting a stainless steele trim made with 2 braces wielded on(substantially smaller) I plan to have a canopy on this tank so the ugly stainless wont show unless I'm doing maintenance.

I also want to construct a overflow. Were the tank is sooo old, no one around here will drill it, and with the extra wide trim, a manufactured unite wont fit. Can I use glass for this? if so what thickness?

Once I start to actually work on the tank, I plan to take lots of pictures and make a build log for everyone to see. Right now I'm just planning and pulling resources together.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Cognition said:


> So we now that we know its not a "critter tank" (i never thought it was to began with)
> 
> I have decided to tear the whole thing down and reseal it. I've never done this before, but for $25, this will be a great practice tank. From what I've read I shouldn't take the trim off, witch is good cause I really wanted to avoid taking it off. I also plan to put 2 braces on (6'' wide, 1/2'' thick) evenly across the tank. I can do that without removing the trim right? I've also considered getting a stainless steele trim made with 2 braces wielded on(substantially smaller) I plan to have a canopy on this tank so the ugly stainless wont show unless I'm doing maintenance.
> 
> ...


The frames on very old tanks came in four parts. If it's that old, it probably is necessary to dismantle the frame. If it is not leaking and not as old as such things as a Bader label, four part frames, and different kinds of frame too and bottom would clue you in just replacing the inner (fillit) seal is going to give years to the tank's life.

Where your overflow goes, leave out a section for the eurobracing, or where you would have a power filter.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Mcdaphnia said:


> \
> >snip< If you see a quarter inch gap behind the untaped end of the three foot long stick, that is as full as you can safely fill that tank without adding cross bracing. Glass can bow slightly in safety, but a quarter inch bow in three feet is the most I would be OK with. After all, that means it's bowing that much on the back side too.


If the yardstick shows 1/4" deflection on the untaped side then the back side prolly only deflected 1/8" and the front bowed the difference to make 1/4". If both sides deflected 1/4" the yard stick would have shown 1/2".

Not splittin hairs, just correcting some math.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

fox said:


> Mcdaphnia said:
> 
> 
> > \
> ...


If you use a six foot long stick you would be exactly right. I suggested a yard stick because it's half the length of the six foot tank. That causes this math error to correct itself.

Because the curvature is not uniform, it is only approximate. You can direct measure across the top with a tape measure or drywall tee. This requires a helper or frequent stops to measure. If you have or can borrow a laser level, this is a cool instant way to see and measure the curvature.

However with the thickness of this glass, in this tank, the curve is likely to be less and you might only be able to measure it with the laser.


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## Cognition (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm probably not gonna test this, just add the braces just as precaution. I appreciate the concern tho :wink:


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Mcdaphnia said:


> I suggested a yard stick because it's half the length of the six foot tank. That causes this math error to correct itself.


Ok we are talking about two different measurements then, My bad.

I thort we were looking for how much deflection the front and rear panels were deflecting. In this case you take a _before fill_ and _after fill_ measurement front to back mid span at the top of the tank. If the glass panels are bowing the ruler will confirm this and expecting *BOTh* panels to be bowing ( you could confirm this with that laser) you halve this result to determine what each panel was deflecting.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

fox said:


> ...Ok we are talking about two different measurements then, My bad....


 It's the same measurement. But with super thick glass, like this tank, deflection is not an issue.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Mcdaphnia said:


> fox said:
> 
> 
> > ...Ok we are talking about two different measurements then, My bad....
> ...


Then I stand corrected and I maintain my first assesment :roll: . That is if we are talking apples to apples.

It only deflects 1/8" per side as I first posted and not 1/4" on both front and back if the measurement increased 1/4" front to back from say 18" before filled to 18-1/4" after filled. If as you say we are talking 'bout the same thing the measurement front to back would have grown 1/2" if both sides bowed 1/4". Shouldn't need a laser or trammel bar to confirm this.

Either that or we are talking about two different things. Don't wanna pick nits. opcorn:

I'll not bore the OP any further, sory for the off topic.

fox out


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## Cognition (Oct 14, 2009)

No by all means. This sort of thing doesn't bore me personally, I just struggle to keep it below my head. But it is stuff I need to know.


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## irbenson (May 30, 2010)

You can try making your own brace out of a metal bar.

Imagine(ignore the ...)
________
|.............|

and place that on top of your tank as if it were a brace


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## Cognition (Oct 14, 2009)

Well I've since moved away from the thought of glass bracing. Because I have access to a metal worker, I'm going to have him make me a brace setup out of stainless. Its being designed to fit over the trim to avoid scratching the glass. Basically its going to go around the perimeter of the trim and then have 2 braces made of stainless. I know this would usually look very gaudy and unattractive, But mine will be hidden by the canopy I'm gonna have built for it. I'm still unsure wither I'll need to silicon it in place or not. For me this method of bracing is the cheapest(free actually) Witch is why I'm going this route. Thank you for all of your comments


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

I wish i had friends like yours, then i'd build myself a big metal frame tank.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

pistolpete said:


> I wish i had friends like yours, then i'd build myself a big metal frame tank.


 The welders had to learn how to weld aluminum, so an aquarist who worked there suggested they build big aquarium shaped rectangles out of angle aluminum. The last few they made proved they had learned the skill. And they went home with the aquarist, proving what I'm not sure exactly.

You might have the cross braces welded in vertically to minimise the amount of light blocked. Since it's in a canopy, orientation shouldn't matter for appearance, and the strength would be the same. With 3/4" thick glass it's probably like putting a rim on a rimless tank, but it is free. I wouldn't silicone it to the tank. However on the inside lip I would run a bead to keep water from splashing up under the frame and siphoning out. You'd be looking for a leak and out the big hole in the top is the last place we look for it.


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## Cognition (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok Mcdaphnia, I'm so confused... My tank is only 1/2 inch thick glass... not 3/4(if it was 3/4s I wouldn't waste the resources. This tank is also going to be a low-light malawi hap/peacock tank so I'm not so much concerned with blocked light, although I also don't want to have the braces causing a lot of shade in the aquarium. The part I'm most confused about is "I wouldn't silicone it to the tank. However on the inside lip I would run a bead to keep water from splashing up under the frame and siphoning out. You'd be looking for a leak and out the big hole in the top is the last place we look for it"... how could a metal rim cause the water the siphon out? its only going to run around the top trim...

Pistolpete: this friend is a great uncle :wink:


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Cognition said:


> Ok Mcdaphnia, I'm so confused... My tank is only 1/2 inch thick glass... not 3/4(if it was 3/4s I wouldn't waste the resources. This tank is also going to be a low-light malawi hap/peacock tank so I'm not so much concerned with blocked light, although I also don't want to have the braces causing a lot of shade in the aquarium. The part I'm most confused about is "I wouldn't silicone it to the tank. However on the inside lip I would run a bead to keep water from splashing up under the frame and siphoning out. You'd be looking for a leak and out the big hole in the top is the last place we look for it"... how could a metal rim cause the water the siphon out? its only going to run around the top trim...
> 
> Pistolpete: this friend is a great uncle :wink:


Sorry, I thought you'd said it was 3/4" thick.

Is the metal only going to run on the outside? If it's made as an inverted U modeling it after the plastic frame, then yes it can cause a siphon. If it's only on the outside, all it can do is channel water out that has splashed up entirely over the original rim.


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## FbodyFan (Jun 20, 2010)

You guys are freaking me out here! I recently bought a used 125 gallon tank and there is no center brace (unless the plastic divider in the middle of the top trim piece is what you are talking about).

The glass is 3/8 thick and a sticker on the bottom of it shows what appears to be a manufacture date of jan '03 and says "tempered".


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## Cognition (Oct 14, 2009)

Your fine, that plastic piece is exactly what mine is missing. Mine is also a lot older then 7 years. Your 125g is just fine.


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## FbodyFan (Jun 20, 2010)

:thumb:

I read too much and get paranoid sometimes lol


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

FbodyFan said:


> You guys are freaking me out here! I recently bought a used 125 gallon tank and there is no center brace (unless the plastic divider in the middle of the top trim piece is what you are talking about).
> 
> The glass is 3/8 thick and a sticker on the bottom of it shows what appears to be a manufacture date of jan '03 and says "tempered".


Generally the center brace is a plastic strip that goes from the front to the back in the center of the top trim. So it sounds like your tank has a center brace.

**Edit: Oh, the last two post weren't loaded before**


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

FbodyFan said:


> You guys are freaking me out here! I recently bought a used 125 gallon tank and there is no center brace (unless the plastic divider in the middle of the top trim piece is what you are talking about).
> 
> The glass is 3/8 thick and a sticker on the bottom of it shows what appears to be a manufacture date of jan '03 and says "tempered".


The plastic strap across the middle acts as a center brace. It is flexible but only has to hold the tank walls together, not apart, since there is no danger anyone will use the tank for a boat. If they do, they deserve what they get.


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## FbodyFan (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the help guys! :dancing:


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