# Setting up a New 180 Cichlid Tank questions



## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

Hi, Thanks for helping !

Here's my thoughts on setting up my first Cichlid Tank ( Drilled 180 Tank )

As I'm custom designing my sump , I'd like to get the cycling process started. My thought was, I'm also going to be adding a canister Fuval FX6 along with the sump

So I'll add the canister once I get a bio load after the cycle is complete and I start to introduce fish

So my thought was :

Fill the tank, ( I don't have sand or substrate yet ) and start the fishless cycle by adding ammonia or a dead shrimp

While the tank takes several weeks to cycle, buy the substrate and add ( no canister added yet )

Aquascaping will have to come later, as I have lot's to buy still, heaters, power heads, substrate, lights, and so on

Once cycled , I'll have the substrate added, canister filer added , heaters, and any other life support systems needed to keep the fish alive

Then do the water change, hook up the canister, and introduce fish slowly

Over the next few months , design the sump, plumb it in, buy the matching canopy , install the LED's , power heads, return pump, etc

My thought it, to stock the tank over several months and the canister filter can carry the bio load until the sump is designed and plumbed

What are your thoughts on this?

I don't know much about Cichlids yet, as I been spending hours on the mechanical part of the tank for now, trying to get it up and running


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Don't bother starting the cycle until the filter is running. The bacteria need oxygen and the filter media is where they grow. Substrate too is media for the bacteria...especially the nitrite eaters.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

Thank you! I appreciate it, so wait to fill the tank until I get the substrate in and filter on it

I been reading for the last 2 hours pool filter sand or black sand

Trying to make up my mind to get it ordered soon

Thanks !


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## Samadhikash (Jun 16, 2015)

Hello. Welcome to the forum. Not sure of your experience level in the hobby.

For all I know you've been keeping fish for 40 years and you have total control of the intricacies of your fish room. In which case, I say make your plan and follow it.

If you are relatively new to the hobby, I think you may be shooting yourself in the foot by trying to build your system while you also attempting to cycle it and add fish.

Worth=two cents.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

Thanks for the advice

I'm going to take a few months to build everything looks like

When I has my 180 SW tank, I did 20% water changes every 2 weeks 
I'm reading people doing 50% weekly or bi weekly water changes on Cichlid tanks, it that true?

How would you do a 50 % water change, and let the water get to room temperature and add declorhinr into the water ?
I'd need 100 gallon holding tanks ?

I'm now looking into 3D backgrounds


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Even 75% weekly. Use a Python and the hot/cold tap. Add dechlor first and then the new water.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

Thanks

I may have started back into this with too large of a system. Financially, I wasn't planning on $4k to $5k

I have a 75 rimless custom made tank, but it only has a three foot wide footprint it is also reef ready and drilled with three sides of the sapphire glass.

Maybe I should start. System up until I learn the world of cichlids


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

36" long is very limiting on your Malawi stock selections. Single species Pseuodtropheus saulosi would be my recommendation. Stock by the footprint, not the gallons.

There are some nice Tanganyikans for a 36" tank. One of my favorite tanks was Calvus and Caudopunctatus in a 36" tank.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

Yes, to be honest, I'd set the 75 up for SW with some clowns etc, and allot of coral
It wouldn't make a good Cichlid tank like you said

To get the 180 up and running, I can do pool filter sand , one Fuval FX6 while I build the sump, 
Return pump, heaters, power heads, LED lights

So maybe another $750 and I'd be ready for fish

We didn't want to go this big of a tank again, since I had a 180 SW tank for years up and running,
But we got a good deal on a new 180 and new Marineland Monterey Stand. I got this set up
For what smaller tanks were running , and I knew the fish would like the 6' x 24" foot print


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

One other thing to investigate - if you are thinking of installing the canister over the rim of the tank - disregard what comes next.

It may be more trouble than it is worth to plumb the canister to one of the bulkheads through the tank. Think about how you will prevent any leaks when the filter needs maintenance.

FWIW - I'm running a 180 with just a sump and no canister or powerheads. Sand makes a huge difference in the amount and effort of maintenance. Possibly there is a lot of stuff in your wish list which is not NEEDED per se, but could be added down the road if the tank cannot maintain decent water parameters.

With a python system, it is not difficult to reasonably match water temperatures when doing 50% changes. I try to get within about 10 degrees or so, but I'm not overly scientific about it, as I judge based on dipping my hand into the tank, and then in front of the hose as the new water enters the tank. It takes a lot of temperature difference with the hose water to drastically change the tank temp, as the 50% remaining in the tank has a sizable influence on temperature.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

Thanks, with you guys answering questions so fast, I'll have water in it this weekend, lol !

Yes, I worried my design on the sump, and lack of knowledge on FW sumps was a concern

So I thought of running a FX6 just in case

I would love to run just a sump for cost reasons and maintenance

If I was going to add a FX6, my thoughts were leave both drain lines from the weirs go to the sump , and the FX6 intake would go over the top, in one weir, and the output in a corner, so I didn't have any dead spots ( I'll also have 2 power heads )

I saw you responded on my other thread with the help of sump design

I'll just focus on the sump and substrate for now , that's all I really need, other then a return pump, and heaters to get up and running


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

nodima said:


> One other thing to investigate - if you are thinking of installing the canister over the rim of the tank - disregard what comes next.
> 
> It may be more trouble than it is worth to plumb the canister to one of the bulkheads through the tank. Think about how you will prevent any leaks when the filter needs maintenance.
> 
> ...


So when I'm looking at substrate, are you saying sand ( Pool Filter Sand ) makes allot of maintenance , or do you mean it's better the gravel, so the food and poo waste don't sink into the sand as easy?

I'm going to order the substrate today or tomorrow


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

fltekdiver said:


> nodima said:
> 
> 
> > One other thing to investigate - if you are thinking of installing the canister over the rim of the tank - disregard what comes next.
> ...


the pool filter sand makes maintenance easier. Sand in general does, but other types take more rinsing to get them ready for the tank.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

Thanks, I'm calling around today to see who has some, appreciate it


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Look for spa and pool supply stores. It's hard to get the silica sand anymore because it's dust is a carcinogen. I was able to get some at a sand blasting supply store.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

I appreciate everyone's help, this is a decision just made, as yesterday I bought a 40 Breeder for a sump , LOL

After considering all the cost to get this up and running, and size of water changes, lights for this size tank, etc, I've decided to buy a smaller tank.

We went to the LFS yesterday, and are considering a 90 gallon with a 4' foot print

It's been adding to much stress at time, to get this size of a tank up and running

I'm going to still buy a drilled tank, so I can use the sump for filtration

I sold our 180 SW reef tank past year, for this reason. It was running me $500 + a month stocking it wit coral and fish all the time , I did this after investing thousands into the hobby to get that 180 up and running. After all said and done, I had over $5K + into the tank

This time I set a budget of $1k, and all ready going into this tank for thousands

We have a 38' camper, that we go away allot of weekends, and I just don't have the time to get this size tank up and running

I still have a 75 Rimless tank, but It has a 3' foot print Would be great for SW reef tank, but not so great for a Cichlid tank. I don't want to get back into SW, so I'm selling this one as well

Bot this has been an adventure the past 2 weeks!


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

No offense intended, but you seem to be working with conflicting goals. On one hand you want cheap (or at least manageable) but on the other you don't want to spare any expense.

The nice thing about Cichlids as opposed to SW or even FW planted tank, is a lot of the really expensive stuff is either not needed, or super overkill.

There is no real reason for spending tons of money on lighting for instance. Heck, I'm running strip LED lights on my 180 tropheus tank which were under $100.

I'm not sure how much less expensive a 90 is over a 180. Other than the tank and stand, that is. Do yourself a favor and create a spreadsheet on costs for each and be realistic about it all. Bet it is not double.

Also - consider what fish you want to keep. The extra room of a 180 may really allow you to keep exactly what you want. Then even consider a 125 which is also 6' long and is the last "inexpensive" size tank - as tank costs seem to jump at that point.

Getting stuff written down will bring clarity and help you through the analysis paralysis.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

I appreciate your thoughts and honesty

We have been all over the place this past 2 weeks, and been buying stuff on a whim

Luckily I bought the tank new and stand new for half the cost. The stand Marineland Monterey alone sells for $1k
I paid $1k for both tank and stand new

Unfortunately, the price got overwhelming and where we were going to put it

We originally planned on removing a love seat in the livingroom, and set it up their. But with Laminate floors, my wife changed her mind. It then got thrown into a spare bedroom that's 10'x10'

Now I have this huge tank and stand in a 10x10 bedroom

Problem is now, going from a 180 to a 125 new, is still $1k for a new 125 drilled and stand. And much cheaper stand now
I absolutely love 6' of tank, but I hate to give up such a beautifully stand which I now own

So now that the tank will be in a small bedroom, I'm now looking into 90 to 120 gallon tanks. With 4' widths, and 18" deep vs 24" deep so their not so over whelming in the bedroom

I have a buyer coming tonight to pick up the new 180 tank and stand for $1k, but to be honest, it's breaking my heart to sell it

I'll end up in a 90 for a few hundred dollars less, and end up with allot less tank and stand now

The guy left a deposit on it this morning. I been thinking of calling him all day, and give him his deposit back. I can't replace over $2k of stuff new, that I bought for half the price. It will cost me now the same to go to a smaller tank


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Getting a great deal on something you can't fully use sometimes really makes for difficult choices. Good luck.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

We sold it last night. Were now looking into something that can fit the bedroom, vs the living

I'm looking into a 90 gallon right now. If I go any larger, it will have to be 5' long by 18" wide at the most. I possibly could do a 6' long tank, but it would have to be 18" like a 125G . A 90G tank actually would fit perfect where it's going, but I'm trying to get the biggest tank I can into that area 

I'm still looking at a drilled tank, so I can run a sump


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

After spending hours of moving furniture around in the bedroom. We deceided a 4' X 18" deep tank is all we really could fit

Once I narrowed that down, my choices really only became a 75 or 90

I opted for a 90 Deep Blue tank with left hand corner over flow, after finding a LFS that had a new one in stock, and was happy to see the overflow box in the corner.

We just got home with it, and I'll start the custoum stand build this weekend

I bought the 40 Gallon breeder over the weekend at Petco's dollar per gallon sale, so that will stay the sump for the 90

I'm really happy with the tank, and I think the sump is a perfect size and will give me lots of options to design for the 90

I'll start a build thread once I get going, appreciate everyone's help. You guys been great !


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Cool - nice to have a decision. One thing I can suggest from experience - make sure you can get the sump into and out of the stand easily. I ran into a situation where my sump would not fit under the tank with the tank in place. Had to remove the 125 and put the sump in from the top. The doors were about 1" too small for the sump to make the turn.


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

Make sure that you are taking overall weight into account and that your floors can bear it. I would love to have a sump on my 150 gallon tank (at least I think I would since I have no experience with sumps), but I wouldn't want to add another 350 pounds of weight to the existing 1,500 combined pounds from the tank, stand and water.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

Hey guys thanks,

I've built several of my larger SW tanks and stands, and custom designed the stands, plumbing, sumps etc,

It's going on a concrete slab the house was built on

This stand will be at 38" high , plenty of room for everything to fit

See my You Tube Videos of my builds and plumbing etc


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

I have the stand framed up. I just have to skin it and finish it, make the doors etc, then once the tanks up and running, I'll start on the canopy

I want to start to get the sump baffles glued in, finish the sump, plumbing it, so I can get the system up and running in a few weeks

Where is everyone finding the rock that looks like SW rock? I just spent a hour watching You Tube videos, some beautiful Cichlid Tanks

I just have to find Pool Filter sand, I also like the black and white sand, I see allot of people in the videos using that

So I just have the find the sand, rock, order the return pump, power head,, make the sump , get little stuff, heaters, etc

After watching the videos, I really wish I could have fit a 125, I have the wall space, but it would have over powered the room

I keep thinking this tank would make a perfect reef tank, I'll be honest, I was 50/50 on either going with Cichlids, or just making it a SW reef tank


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## Roger That (Aug 12, 2015)

If you're talking about Lace rock like what you see in my tank, I got it here at a LFS. You can google "Lace rock" and you'll find several sites that sells it by the pound. It does have a resemblance of SW live rock.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

Thanks ! I'll look that up

I think I'm going to go with CaribSea Instant Aquarium Tahitian Moon Reef Sand

I really like the look of it

I been watching videos of 3D Backgrounds as well

Not sure on a 18" wide tank though, It would take some space away

I May just go with the black background with the Black Sand


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## Roger That (Aug 12, 2015)

Yeah, a 3D background with only 18" depth will make it a tight squeeze depending on the background. There are some out there that would work ok, just depends on what you want...I don't think the fish really care.

But if you look at my tank with the layout of the rock, you can see that I have anywhere from 4" to 8" of sand in front of the rock wall. What you can't see very well is that there is 4"-5" of sand from the rock wall to the back glass. So if you can picture in your mind.....a 3D background from directly behind the rock wall to the back glass. It would give you about 14" of workable space, just don't add very much actual rock and it should look great. There's plenty of really nice ones out there.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

Thanks for the info

I found this on a thread on here, looks like it's only about 1/4" to 1/2" thick , what do you think with the black sand :

http://www.yourfishstuff.com/rocky-3d-background/


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## Roger That (Aug 12, 2015)

That looks pretty good! Price is good too, just don't know about the company.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

I been reading on Cichlids, but theirs so many types

is their a beginner section here, on which types to start with?

I guess I wasn't expecting Cichlids to be difficult. They seem harder then getting a SW tank up and running.

When I got into SW, I spent about a 100 hours reading before my first fish saw water. Years later I was able to enjoy the hobby, finding a SW tank very easy to maintain, and not loosing any fish due to just getting into SW tanks

I thought with Cichlids, since they were fresh water, I'd just throw a bunch in over time

I been reading and reading, and theirs so many types, with aggression issues etc. I didn't know they were this difficult

I found this thread on here, but it's not listing many of one species for a 90G tank

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/s ... inners.php


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## Roger That (Aug 12, 2015)

Lol. That's what this forum is for. It sounds a lot harder than it actually is, if you're not sure about something along the way just post your question. I've never even had a pet fish until four months ago, now I have five species of Mbuna and some Synodontis Multipunctatus' in a six foot tank.
It's not so bad....when you get your equipment setup and begin your fishless cycle research your desired stocking list. If you don't have any idea on which species post your question. Folks here are glad to help you with that. I got my list from here and they're awesome. Now I'm trying to do some deeper research on each species I have to learn as much as possible about my little monsters.


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## fltekdiver (Sep 27, 2015)

I have started another thread since this will now be a 90G build  I printed this thread out, with all the help for the new tank , thanks again, here's the new link:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=368002


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