# Just got a 125 gal for trophs!!



## stslimited84

Hey everybody,

I just picked up a new 125 gal thats going to be dedicated to tropheus!

I'm psyched 

I'm planning on getting Moori Ilangi's. I was thinking 40-50 of them. How does that sound?

For filtration I have a XP3 and an FX5. Is that enough?

Im going to be using black sand as the substrate and I'm going to do a DIY background in a rocky type style.

Thoughts, comments, recommendation, and/or advice?

Thanks as always!


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## txfront

Congrats, i think 40 is a good number for a 125. In my opinion thats more than enough filtration, but other keepers may have a different opinion. Good luck with the fish.


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## Cypher

Hi,

Grats on the setup. I think the FX5 should be enough already, as that would have a turnover rate of over 7 times your tank capacity per hour. But if you already have them both, why not 
Good luck with your new tropheus, and be sure to post pics!


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## eklikewhoa

I think 40-50 is a good number :thumb:

As for the Fx5....the filtration on that thing does not compare to say a wet/dry which I feel that all big tanks should have one when dealing with large groups of Tropheus.

I have a 125g with 37 wc Ilangi's with all their fry.
Pro-clear 400 w/ mag12 return pump
Eheim 2228
Rena Xp3
2x 250gph powerheads with spraybars on them to increase surface agitation.

With this setup I have had great success/results in with my colony of Ilangi's. Also, when I had the black background on the tank with peppered sand the colors on the Ilangi were somewhat dull...after flipping it to the brighter blue side they quickly regained their vibrant yellows and reds.


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## tekjunky

eklikewhoa said:


> I think 40-50 is a good number :thumb:
> 
> As for the Fx5....the filtration on that thing does not compare to say a wet/dry which I feel that all big tanks should have one when dealing with large groups of Tropheus.
> 
> I have a 125g with 37 wc Ilangi's with all their fry.
> Pro-clear 400 w/ mag12 return pump
> Eheim 2228
> Rena Xp3
> 2x 250gph powerheads with spraybars on them to increase surface agitation.
> 
> With this setup I have had great success/results in with my colony of Ilangi's. Also, when I had the black background on the tank with peppered sand the colors on the Ilangi were somewhat dull...after flipping it to the brighter blue side they quickly regained their vibrant yellows and reds.


I second that..wet/dry is the way to go for a tropheus tank. I have a 125 full of tropheus and they are very messy.

Tekjunky


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## stslimited84

I would do a wet/dry if I could, but the tank isnt "reef ready" aka its not drilled. So I'm going to have to go with the FX5 and the XP3.

Do you think I should have more filtration than that? The FX5 is a beast in itself.

I already have the FX5 and XP3. Other than that...any other recommendations?

Thanks for all of the input everybody! 8)


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## geoff_tropheus

I always like the idea of running two filters. This way you could clean out one filter and still have the other that can support a tank of this size with no issue.

I have (2) FX5's and they really are not that good. The larger Eheim 2260 and 2262 completely blow them away in filtration ability and in media space.

The FX5 pump is on the bottom of the canister. Be very careful in using a sand substrate with this filter. The substrate gets into the filter and settles down in the bottom, where it can wear out the pump impeller and rotor assembly. I'd personally stay away from the FX5 and get a larger Eheim.

On my 125 I have 24 Ujiji and their about 20 1" fry. On this tank I run (2) Rena XP4's and perrform bi-weekly 50-70% waterchanges, and I have had no issues in the tank. I clean out one of the filters per month. I have been running this setup since May 2006. Originally, the tank was setup with (2) XP3's and a powerhead. The (2) XP4's are really nice, easy to maintain, and look nice in the tank.

Even though, I like the Rena Filstar Series, the Eheim 2260 or 2262 blow them away too.

What I would like to suggest to you, is make sure you pack the XP3 with as much bio-media as possible. The FX5 is very limited for biological filtration, even though the large surface area of the FOAMS are supposed to supplment bio-filtration, they are marginal at best because it is also your primary mechanical filter which gets dirty PDQ. You might want to consider using the FX5 for more of a mechanical/chemical filter and use the XP3 to carry as much bio-load as possible.

The FX5 and the XP3 is enough filtration for 40 Ilangi in a 125 gallon. I would not put more than 40.

I have seen better pictures of Ilangi when the background was brighter, not darker. The fish show better color, infact the best I ever saw was on this site, when the guy in Germany had a golden yellow background and the fish were amazing in color. You might search for that and make your own opinon.

Take care,

Geoff


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## F8LBITEva

sounds like its going to be an awesome setup!! post pics ASAP


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## stslimited84

geoff_tropheus said:


> I always like the idea of running two filters. This way you could clean out one filter and still have the other that can support a tank of this size with no issue.
> 
> I have (2) FX5's and they really are not that good. The larger Eheim 2260 and 2262 completely blow them away in filtration ability and in media space.
> 
> The FX5 pump is on the bottom of the canister. Be very careful in using a sand substrate with this filter. The substrate gets into the filter and settles down in the bottom, where it can wear out the pump impeller and rotor assembly. I'd personally stay away from the FX5 and get a larger Eheim.
> 
> On my 125 I have 24 Ujiji and their about 20 1" fry. On this tank I run (2) Rena XP4's and perrform bi-weekly 50-70% waterchanges, and I have had no issues in the tank. I clean out one of the filters per month. I have been running this setup since May 2006. Originally, the tank was setup with (2) XP3's and a powerhead. The (2) XP4's are really nice, easy to maintain, and look nice in the tank.
> 
> Even though, I like the Rena Filstar Series, the Eheim 2260 or 2262 blow them away too.
> 
> What I would like to suggest to you, is make sure you pack the XP3 with as much bio-media as possible. The FX5 is very limited for biological filtration, even though the large surface area of the FOAMS are supposed to supplment bio-filtration, they are marginal at best because it is also your primary mechanical filter which gets dirty PDQ. You might want to consider using the FX5 for more of a mechanical/chemical filter and use the XP3 to carry as much bio-load as possible.
> 
> The FX5 and the XP3 is enough filtration for 40 Ilangi in a 125 gallon. I would not put more than 40.
> 
> I have seen better pictures of Ilangi when the background was brighter, not darker. The fish show better color, infact the best I ever saw was on this site, when the guy in Germany had a golden yellow background and the fish were amazing in color. You might search for that and make your own opinon.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Geoff


Well, I already have the FX5 and the XP3 so Im kinda S.O.L. on using a different filter, but I will take your suggestion and put as much biomedia in the XP3 as I can. What would you suggest to use for it? I was thinking pot scrubbers? I have a **** load of quilt batting, should I just stuff the FX5 full of that stuff and then rotate the media baskets once a month by changing out the quilt batting in the bottom basket with new quilt batting and move it to the top of the stack?

What do you think about the flow Geoff? Do you think that is enough flow? Should I add another pump to the tank?

Is the Germany guy's background in the my tank section?

As always, thankyou to everybody for your input!


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## geoff_tropheus

stslimited84,

The FX5 flows 607 gph with the mechanical foams installed. The XP3 listed flowrate is 350gph and does not say wether it is with or without media.

This total filtration flowrate is 957 gph, which makes 7.65 turnover rate. This is enough with a solid regime of weekly 30-50% or bi-weekly 50-75% waterchanges. I would run the canister suctions in each corner of the tank about 2-3" from each corner. Then put the discharge outlets equal distance between the centerbrace and the suction intake.

I have never used quilt batting as a biomedia, but potscrubbers do well also. If you looking more at the DIY media, I have seen lots of people using lava rock and packing peanuts. Just make sure everything is really washed well.

I packed my FX5's baskets like this. Top and Middle basket has Eheim Substrat inside media bags because it can fall thru the holes, and the bottom basket has 4 Bags of Chempure.

MY XP3's and XP4's are packed in the bottom basket the 4 pieces of the 30ppi foam, then the middle baskets are packed with ceramic rings which in over 2 years serivce I have never replaced nor intend too, and the top basket is 2 bags Chempure and the fine filtration pad or filter floss.

DIY media can save you money, it is just difficult to say how effective it really is or not. The Quilt Batting I think would do just fine or even the blue-bonded pads in the baskets of the FX5. Just remember what ever FINE media you put into the FX5 goes into the bottom basket, which can make it a more of a pain for cleaning. Other canisters you know, the fine media is in the top which makes it a lot easier to replace.

I will spend some time and try to search for that photo and post a link here. I was posted last year sometime in this forum. Just not sure, where exactly.

Best of Luck!

Geoff


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## stslimited84

I was thinking of doing atleast one of the returns as a spray bar. Thoughts on that? I was also planning on doing a fiberglass background. The background comes out lighter in color, so it should promote good coloration within the colony.

Substrate is going to be black sand


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## parrdog

Going on from what Ek said, I think your Ilangi will take on a darker colouring if you use black substrate.

Have fun with your tank .

Jamie.


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## parrdog

Going on from what Ek said, I think your Ilangi will take on a darker colouring if you use black substrate.

Have fun with your tank .

Jamie.


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## eklikewhoa

I would probably leave the 30ppi foam in the xp3's bottom tray and fill the other 2 with eheim ehfisubstrat pro.....have it so that it is mainly bio like geoff stated.

Also with the wet/dry issue....none of my tanks are RR and I kinda prefer it that way. For my tanks I use HOB overflows which IMO are not as problematic as everyone states they are and I even have one that has been in use for 14yrs without a single break in siphon.

I am sure you can get by with less but seeing how things build up in my tank with the turnover rate I have along with twice weekly 50% water changes I could not go with less filtration.


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## 24Tropheus

Hey guys whats the price of WC Ilangi in the states? Here its about double the price of moops.
Â£32 rather tha Â£16. Does anyone know why they are so pricy?


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## geoff_tropheus

In case you should miss my other post here is a link to the thread that has those photos of the yellow background.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=148814

24T,

Ilangi run about $15-20 more a fish over most other Tropheus. It is set at that price because of demand, and somewhat rare find in the lake. Most of the demand is generated in the fish mostly from the Konnings photos, but they are indeed a beautiful fish.

I think they are far from the best looking Tropheus, but that is only matter of opinion.

Take care,

Geoff


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## stslimited84

So, I guess the majority opinion is that if I use the black sand it will hinder the coloration of the colony. That kinda sux since I have almost 400 lbs of it. Guess I'll just save that for my dream tank when I get a house.

On that note, what sand should I get for the Troph's? I'm looking for something that isnt too pricey, but will do the job of bringing out good coloration.

What should I get?

Also, anybody have thoughts on my spray bar idea?

I really appreciate the help. This is going to be my first time with troph's and I really want to do it right!

I'm getting a two week supply of food from the supplier for the trophs when they come. Also, I've read that it is best to have some medication on hand, (which hopefully will never be need). What is the medication?

Thanks everybody! 8)


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## geoff_tropheus

The Medication you want on hand is CLOUT - 100 tabs count bottle. You can get it from Dr.Foster and SMith for about $18 a bottle.

The spray bar works fine for the XP3, the FX5 does not come with a spray bar. Are you looking to make one? If so, I think it would work fine.

Cheap sand...the best cheap sand I know a number of people use is Pool Filter Sand that you can get at Walmart or some Pool Supply House for about $8 per 50lb bag of it.

In a 125 gallon aquarium, dimensions are 6ft x 18 in, if you want a 1" deep sand bed, which I would not go much deeper than that, you will need about 2-50lb bags. 2-50lb bags, will give you 1.5" of coverage.

You could always use the Black Sand, then if you found that you did not like it, then change it. You may find you like it anyway..but I have to agree with most others, that Ilangi will look better on light substrate and light backgrounds.

Hope this helps...

Geoff


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## stslimited84

I was planning on making a pvc spray bar for the filters. Maybe one in the front aim downward to create a flow moving the water front to back across the bottom of the tank, and I hadnt decided where to place the second spray bar if I used two of them.

Is pool filter sand silica sand? If so, doesnt it have problems with algae growth, or am I thinking of something different?

Also, for heating I was thinking of using a 500 watt titanium heater with a temp. controller to prevent any problems if the heater malfunctions for some reason. For example:

http://www.championlighting.com/product ... 668&page=1


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## geoff_tropheus

I would not want to put any spray bar in the front, it in my opinion, would obstruct viewing area. With those kinds of fish, you would not want to do that.

The Leslie's Pool Filter sand is a light tan color, failry uniform grain size, and I am pretty sure it is a quartz, which would make it silica based. I have not heard from anyone having those issues with algae caused by the sand. I do know a large number of people that use that sand.

For heaters, be sure to buy the best you can afford and feel comfortable with. I have been using Marinelands Visi-Therm Stealth heaters, and have not had any issues with them in 2 years of operation. They have been keeping the water temperature almost exactly at the set point. They do a good job. I have never used the one in your link, to know its quality.

Take care,

Geoff


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## stslimited84

Geoff,

Thanks for all of your input so far. 

In all of my other tanks I use Visi-therm, they are great. How many total watts should i use? Maybe 2 250 watts, one on either side of the tank.

When I mentioned putting a spray bar in the front of the tank, you wont actually be able to see the spray bar, so the view of the fish and the tank will remain unobstructed. Does that change your opinion on that matter?


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## geoff_tropheus

1-250W heater should be fine as long as the tank is in a room of your house where you plan to keep it comfortable. Otherwise, I would use (2). Here is Texas 1- heater is no issue, for you in PHilly, you might go ahead and have (2) for winter use.

If your not going to be able to see the spray bar then I cannot really think of a reason not to try it if that's what you want to do. Since your doing a Fiberglass background, what was going to be your idea to put the suction and discharge lines at anyway?

The FX5 is going to push particles 360 degrees, so in general the most debris is going to settle on the bottom on the same side where the spray bar is located. So, your going to more likely want to put your suction intake on the same side as the discharge to be most effective. IT all really depends on what your trying to really accomplish by having the spraybar on the front glass. If your thinking it will keep the debris pushed to the back of the aquarium, I think that will not work out for you like that. The FX5 flowrate really keeps things pretty churned up. I am thinking your trying to prevent having anything showing on the background since your making it all one piece.

Are you going to conceal the suciton intakes into the fiberglass background, or what?

Geoff


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## Afishionado

Just one point to add on something raised earlier in the thread - what to put in the XP3. The coarse sponges on the bottom tray plus all bio-media in the upper trays is a good plan. If you decide to use finer sponge (in the top tray) for polishing, don't use anything finer than what is sold with the filter. I've found that the no-name floss sold in bags at many lfs compresses and clogs up real quick and drops the flow rate significantly within a month. I believe XP3's have a good flow rate as long as the media is not too dense. Although the nominal flow rate of an E-heim 2028 is lower, you can pack it more densely without as much impact on the flow rate, from what I've seen. (I believe it's comparable to the old horsepower vs torque trade-off.)


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## stslimited84

geoff_tropheus said:


> 1-250W heater should be fine as long as the tank is in a room of your house where you plan to keep it comfortable. Otherwise, I would use (2). Here is Texas 1- heater is no issue, for you in PHilly, you might go ahead and have (2) for winter use.
> 
> If your not going to be able to see the spray bar then I cannot really think of a reason not to try it if that's what you want to do. Since your doing a Fiberglass background, what was going to be your idea to put the suction and discharge lines at anyway?
> 
> The FX5 is going to push particles 360 degrees, so in general the most debris is going to settle on the bottom on the same side where the spray bar is located. So, your going to more likely want to put your suction intake on the same side as the discharge to be most effective. IT all really depends on what your trying to really accomplish by having the spraybar on the front glass. If your thinking it will keep the debris pushed to the back of the aquarium, I think that will not work out for you like that. The FX5 flowrate really keeps things pretty churned up. I am thinking your trying to prevent having anything showing on the background since your making it all one piece.
> 
> Are you going to conceal the suciton intakes into the fiberglass background, or what?
> 
> Geoff


I think I'll go with 2 heaters b/c it gets pretty cold in the winter. I did spent 7.5 months in texas, and that summer was freaking brutal. I had blisters on my head from sunburn, but anyway, back on topic, lol.

I was just thinking the spray bar up front would push the debris back to the intakes on the filters. Should I just go with your original idea of having one intake 2-3 inches off of the side of the tanks in the back and put the returns in the middle like you said? How would you angle the FX5's returns being that it has dual returns?

I hadnt really considered building the intakes into the background...im not sure how I'd be able to accomplish it. I'm just trying to make the tank as nice as possible 8)

and is this the leslie's pool place where I can get the sand or is some place different?


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## geoff_tropheus

Here is a store locator for Leslie's, but any pool supply store should have sand. I know for certain Leslie's is light tan, others could be white or different color.

http://leslies.know-where.com/leslies/

On my FX5's I have the two outputs 90 degrees apart and aimned somewhat up at the surface so that there is just enough signs of a ripple on the water surface.

You can try my original idea, I'd probably go about 4-6" on the FX5 from the corner for the intake, and see if you like it. If not you could try other configurations, then once your happy with the look of the intakes/discharges, and heaters, then build your background around those items so it looks really nice.

Once you build your background, it is going to limit you to number of locations you could move things around.


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## stslimited84

geoff_tropheus said:


> Here is a store locator for Leslie's, but any pool supply store should have sand. I know for certain Leslie's is light tan, others could be white or different color.
> 
> http://leslies.know-where.com/leslies/
> 
> On my FX5's I have the two outputs 90 degrees apart and aimned somewhat up at the surface so that there is just enough signs of a ripple on the water surface.
> 
> You can try my original idea, I'd probably go about 4-6" on the FX5 from the corner for the intake, and see if you like it. If not you could try other configurations, then once your happy with the look of the intakes/discharges, and heaters, then build your background around those items so it looks really nice.
> 
> Once you build your background, it is going to limit you to number of locations you could move things around.


If its aimed at the surface, how does the debris on the sand get moved to the intakes? There just is enough water movement to make the derbis move?


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## geoff_tropheus

The water jet that comes out impinges on the front glass which pushes everything back towards the suction intake.

Ouput ->>>>>>Glass
Intake <<<<<<-


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## stslimited84

Im hopefully going to pick up the sand tomorrow from leslie's. There are a bunch nearby so hopefully its not hard to come by and is cheap! I should just ask for pool filter sand right? Nothing special to ask for?

Do you have any recommendations on plants I could put in the tank that would survive/flourish? I know most plants would get destroyed, but are there any that would make it?


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## geoff_tropheus

Regular Pool Filter Sand. It should be in a white bag if I remember correctly.

Just be sure to wash it good by putting it in a bucket, and rinsing it in water stirring it around, draining it, till the water looks clear. Then put the sand into the tank.

Even after you put all 100lbs in there, you may still need another waterchange to get it clear.

As for plants, different types of Anubias has worked well for me, and some Vals and ofcoarse plastic ones. Everything else gets pretty much nibbbled on. Whichever Anubias you get, get the largest one you can find. They will typically eat the early/new leaves.

Hopefully others have had much better experience with plants to give some idea here. I dont use plants in my tanks anymore. Got tired of trying to make them look good.

Best of luck with the setup!

Geoff


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## stslimited84

Anybody have plant recommendations?

I'm going to have to play around with the background. Its going to be my first DIY background, and I'm not sure how to hide the intakes/returns, and the heaters in the background. Any thoughts on that?


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## NorthShore

Plants in a tropheus tank? I've tried java fern and anubias. They eventually shred both and they were supposed to be a plant tropheus didn't eat. They eventually picked them to shreds and the males couldn't stand them in their territory so they would pull them out and move them.


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## stslimited84

lol, i know that it prob wont work, but I was hoping to find some sort of plant that would. I just like the looks of the plants.


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## NorthShore

You can get silk plants for aquariums that look actually really good.....


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## IrkedCitizen

NorthShore said:


> You can get silk plants for aquariums that look actually really good.....


I have heard tropheus will eat silk plants though?

Also for the sand if you haven't already bought some. Pool filter sand is just silica sand but in 20 grade. You can pick up 100lb bags of it from a sand blasting supply store for like 10-12$. Just grab your yellow pages and flip to sandblasting supplies and start calling the places closest to you and ask them how much their silica sand is. Just to let you know the larger the number the finer the grade. 20 grade is a good size.

:thumb:


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## NorthShore

They very well might eat the silk plants if algae is allowed to grow on them...That's how they destroyed anubias in my tanks. They scraped the algae off the leaves and slowly shredded the leaves.


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## geoff_tropheus

They will do it to plastic plants too. :lol:


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## stslimited84

Here's a question about the filtration for the tank. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my tank is not drilled.

Is this a viable/good option to use, instead of going with two canisters?

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/213844/product.web

Thoughts? 8)


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## IrkedCitizen

Whether to use a wet/dry sump or two canister filters is completely up to you. Which one is better will always be debated.

Wet/dry filters have more pros then cons in my opinion. They add more water volume to the tank which is always a good thing. They can house A LOT of biological media for the beneficial bacteria versus other types of filters. You can hide your heaters in it to get them out of the display tank. That is just to name some of the pros. A con that you hear people talking about a lot is "oh they can fail and flood your house" surely that is true but if you took the needed precautions while setting up and designing your sump and plumbing that can be completely avoided. Another is that they aren't the best at mechanical filtration such as polishing and removing floating particulates out of the water. This is overcome by having more filtration like HOB's or canisters.

Just because you are using a wet/dry sump doesn't mean you can't use your canister filters that you already have. You can load the canister filters to handle the mechanical filtration and have the sump handle the biological. You can sell one or both of your canister filters to finance yout wet/dry sump build/purchase.

As far as the Marineland tidepool SOS HOB overflow it is a viable/good option to direct the water into a wet/dry sump. I have one and know some other people that do as well. However, if you are handy and don't want to spend the money on a prefabricated HOB overflow you can easily make one yourself. Construction of choice can be anything from PVC pipe to making your own out of acrylic. It's completely up to you.

Hope that helps. :thumb:


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## stslimited84

IrkedCitizen said:


> Whether to use a wet/dry sump or two canister filters is completely up to you. Which one is better will always be debated.
> 
> Wet/dry filters have more pros then cons in my opinion. They add more water volume to the tank which is always a good thing. They can house A LOT of biological media for the beneficial bacteria versus other types of filters. You can hide your heaters in it to get them out of the display tank. That is just to name some of the pros. A con that you hear people talking about a lot is "oh they can fail and flood your house" surely that is true but if you took the needed precautions while setting up and designing your sump and plumbing that can be completely avoided. Another is that they aren't the best at mechanical filtration such as polishing and removing floating particulates out of the water. This is overcome by having more filtration like HOB's or canisters.
> 
> Just because you are using a wet/dry sump doesn't mean you can't use your canister filters that you already have. You can load the canister filters to handle the mechanical filtration and have the sump handle the biological. You can sell one or both of your canister filters to finance yout wet/dry sump build/purchase.
> 
> As far as the Marineland tidepool SOS HOB overflow it is a viable/good option to direct the water into a wet/dry sump. I have one and know some other people that do as well. However, if you are handy and don't want to spend the money on a prefabricated HOB overflow you can easily make one yourself. Construction of choice can be anything from PVC pipe to making your own out of acrylic. It's completely up to you.
> 
> Hope that helps. :thumb:


Thanks for your response 

I wanted to do a wet/dry with a sump, but my tank isnt drilled, and I have read some posts on this forum that suggest using hang on the back overflows are sometimes a bad idea.

That is my reason for posting. Are they more likely to flood the house for some given reason? I'd really like to do the sump b/c then I dont have to worry about concealing equipment in the background I'm going to make.


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## IrkedCitizen

Here are the two causes that will cause a flood when using a wet/dry.

1. Power outage/pump failure:

Has everything to do with where your return lines from the sump are in the tank. If you have it going to the top and pouring into the tank above the waterline you have no problems. But if you have it below the waterline like most of use have to get rid of the noise that is where the problem happens. When the power goes off or the pump mechanically fails the return line will be under water which would then create an instant siphon thus draining the water from the display tank into the wet/dry and spilling over the top.

How you fix that from happening is have the return line barely under the surface of the water so when the power goes out the water drained from the tank will be contained within the sump without spilling over the top. You just have to make sure your sump has enough space for the added water. When the power comes back on the tank will fill back up and everything will be running how it should. Simple enough.

You can also install water check valves into the return line that if the power went out the gate would close within the check valve and stop the flow of water from the tank into the sump. However check valves have been known to fail and people have come home to flooded rooms.

2. Loss of prime in the HOB overflow:

This happens when the water within the tube that drains the water from the part of the overflow that is inside the the tank to the outside part of the overflow that directs the water to the wet/dry exits the tube. This can be caused by air bubbles inside the priming tube. How this floods the room is that the water will stop draining out of the tank and into the sump but the return pump keeps pumping which makes the water in the tank rise until it spills out over the top. This also causes the pump to run dry which damages the pump leading to it needing to be replaced. This scenario is only valid with HOB overflows as built-in or ported overflows do not have this problem.

The fix is either putting a piece of airline tubing inside of the Priming U-tube and connect it to a venturi on powerhead or some other kind of pump. This keeps the air out of the top of the tube that can break the prime. Another way is to get an air check valve or whatever they are called and drill a hole the size of the valve into the U-tube. How it works is that the air will leave through the valve and the water will not.

So as you can see these two things are easily avoided when you take the needed precautions. :thumb:


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## geoff_tropheus

What an awesome explanation...thanks..

Geoff


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## stslimited84

IrkedCitizen said:


> Here are the two causes that will cause a flood when using a wet/dry.
> 
> 2. Loss of prime in the HOB overflow:
> 
> This happens when the water within the tube that drains the water from the part of the overflow that is inside the the tank to the outside part of the overflow that directs the water to the wet/dry exits the tube. This can be caused by air bubbles inside the priming tube. How this floods the room is that the water will stop draining out of the tank and into the sump but the return pump keeps pumping which makes the water in the tank rise until it spills out over the top. This also causes the pump to run dry which damages the pump leading to it needing to be replaced. This scenario is only valid with HOB overflows as built-in or ported overflows do not have this problem.
> 
> The fix is either putting a piece of airline tubing inside of the Priming U-tube and connect it to a venturi on powerhead or some other kind of pump. This keeps the air out of the top of the tube that can break the prime. Another way is to get an air check valve or whatever they are called and drill a hole the size of the valve into the U-tube. How it works is that the air will leave through the valve and the water will not.
> 
> So as you can see these two things are easily avoided when you take the needed precautions. :thumb:


This is what I would need to do, but I'm not familiar with what a venturi does so advice on that would be very helpful.

Or is it just better to skip this altogether and go with canisters? The idea of a wet/dry and sump is very cool tho.


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## geoff_tropheus

When making your decision, dont forget that wet/dry's can be noisy for all the flow down the hoses. It tends to make gurgling noises. There is things you can do to try to make them less noisy.

So, depending on where your aquarium is going to be placed, you might need to think about that.

Canisters will be quiet, they will be extremely quiet if you get Eheim. Your FX5 is about the same noise level as a Eheim 2260/2262. Your XP3 will be quiet.

Hope this helps..


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## IrkedCitizen

geoff_tropheus said:


> What an awesome explanation...thanks..
> 
> Geoff


Not a problem. This young dog knows a thing or two. :thumb:



stslimited84 said:


> This is what I would need to do, but I'm not familiar with what a venturi does so advice on that would be very helpful.
> 
> Or is it just better to skip this altogether and go with canisters? The idea of a wet/dry and sump is very cool tho.


I got your pm as well but had things I needed to do and since you posted in here I figured I would respond here.

Most powerheads you can buy come with a venturi feature. How a venturi works is the flow of water through the powerhead or even a piece of tubing creates suctions on the airline tubing connected to it that sucks air and/or water through the airline tubing. If you have the venturi hooked up and the end of the airline tubing outside of the water it will suck air and create bubbles thus working like an air pump with an air stone but working off of one unit that also creates flow/current at the same time. If you have the airline tubing inside of the U-tube of the HOB overflow it will suck out any air that might accumulate and when there is no air it'll just suck water through the line. I was going to take a picture but I am tired and don't want to mess with it right now.

Just for the record a wet/dry is a sump what makes it "wet/dry" is the media is not submerged it just has the water flowing over the top of it. Makes for great aeration of the water.

If you want to avoid a wet/dry sump and just have canisters then by all means go for it. It is all personal preference.



geoff_tropheus said:


> When making your decision, dont forget that wet/dry's can be noisy for all the flow down the hoses. It tends to make gurgling noises. There is things you can do to try to make them less noisy.
> 
> So, depending on where your aquarium is going to be placed, you might need to think about that.


Yes there are ways around the noise that have been documented in the DIY forums and other places on this website but I'll give a breakdown. You can have a wet/dry that is just as quiet as a canister filter.

If he buys that Tidepool SOS overflow it has a mechanism that you fine tune that removes the flushing/gurgling sound to make them virtually silent. If you have a PVC overflow or even a durso standpipe/stockman mod you have to angle the pipe so it isn't running vertical. When the pipe is vertical it makes the gurgling/flushing sound because the air that is trying to escape out the top hits the water that is falling down and creates a vortex, once the air gets passed the water the water then instantly fills that void where the air was and creates the flushing noise. By angling the drain pipe it will allow the water to flow down one side of the pipe while the air escapes over the top of the water.

Another thing that causes the noise is if when using flex tubing as the drain line and it has a sag in it making the water have to rise up from a downward position this is usually where the gurgle comes from. You fix that by taking the sag out of the line.

Other noise is caused where the hose delivers the water to the media chamber. This can be dampened by making the water drop a lesser distance before hitting the media. You should also have the media trays a little bit under the waterline in the wet/dry sump to avoid the water creating a splashing noise from the water leaving the trays.

It is not that hard to make them have little to no noise. :thumb:


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## eklikewhoa

I would look into something other then the tidepool, something with the original looking u-tube.

With flooding....adding to the above posts.

*If set up properly then there is no way in **** it will happen. *

Now, I have had a wet/dry on one of my tanks for over 14yrs now and through all the natural disasters we have had here in south texas, all the power outages and what nots there has never been a single time where the overflow lost siphon(which is almost impossible if set up right caust both boxes are filled with water on both ends of the u-tube which keeps the siphon). The only way something like this could happen is if you did not set up your filter right and the water level in the tank fell below the bottom most area of the box and it broke apart.

Another way this could happen is if the u-tube was pulled out of the overflow box which would physically break siphon.

With overflowing the sump area you would have to had set the overflow box too low in the tank which would cause it to continue to overflow past the sumps capacity in event of a poweroutage, have too much water in the sump area which would not leave enough room for the amount of water that will overflow in the event of a power outage or you have a pump failure/power outage and there is no siphon break hole drilled right below the normal water level on the output which would induce siphon in the event of a power outage.

IMO the benefits you get from a wet/dry far surpasses that of any canister!

Also with the noise there are ways around it like with a durso or standman pipe which makes the noise obsolete! I half @$$ed one myself and it killed the noise by almost 80%.


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## stslimited84

I wanted to thank all of you for your help with the tropheus discussion. I'm going to hold off on getting them for now as they are a bit too pricey on the wallet right now, but I will get them in the future, and I look forward to it.

Thanks for all of the help!


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## stslimited84

Turns out after all I'm getting the trophs! I'm so excited  For substrate I was thinking of some PFS. Thoughts on that?

I'm making a DIY sump with wet/dry filter. The sump is 100 gallons, so I'll have plenty of extra water capicty and biological filtration.

:drooling:


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