# Raw shrimp - How often?



## tyrone (Mar 20, 2003)

Hi,

I was just wondering how often do you guys feed your cichlids raw shrimp. (in my case haps & yellow labs)? Is once a week fine. Otherwise its mainly NLS.

Thanks.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

If your really want to once a week is fine
A good quality flake and pellet is sufficient however


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Never for me.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Never for me either :roll:


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## tyrone (Mar 20, 2003)

Okaaaay :roll:

Actually, I heard that quite a number of people do feed shrimp, krill, brine shrimp etc in addition to a good quality pellet / flake, once in a while. For instance, to induce spawning, so that was the reason for my asking.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Yeah some people are on that wave and good luck to them, maybe if i feed it to my fish they will stop spawning  
Next time your around a tub of NLS pick it up and read the ingredience. I'm sure there are others that provide other protien sources to as krill and herring are both provided in NLS.
To spawn a fish they need a solid diet, flakes and pellets provide all of their needs and a good water change routine, nothing fancy really.
These days i walk by 1 of my tanks or i might be sitting there watching them and notice 2 females holding and my male flirting like mad with another female and i look to my grow out tank and think grow you buggers, grow!


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Gibbs said:


> Yeah some people are on that wave and good luck to them, maybe if i feed it to my fish they will stop spawning


 :lol: Excellent, had my morning chuckle there.

OP - you may find this current thread an interesting and useful read:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=


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## tyrone (Mar 20, 2003)

Yeah Gibbs, I agree with you but I just can't get my fryeri to spawn so I was thinking maybe something different up until I read Blair's response 

Blair, I just went through that debate you mentioned.. Very informative & exhaustive I must say . I was intrigued by the fact that you feed about a teaspoon of NLS per tank. Am I right? If so isn't that less for the amount of fish you have? Btw, I too feed solely NLS here for the past 3 years now. Since its not available here so I order it all the way from the US coz I know how nutritious it is. I on the other hand feed much more to my fish, about a full tablespoon, maybe more, (sometimes twice daily) coz they're 1 mm pellets & most of my fish are quite large as you can see in my signature. Sometimes there's still some pellets floating and left over at the bottom after a couple of minutes. Should I lessen the amount & continue to feed twice daily?

Once again, the reason I asked about the shrimp was to induce my fryeri to spawn as pure breds are rare out here. That was before I read your debate


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Nothing wrong with questions bud.

I feed a teaspoon of NLS between 3 tanks per day, not just one. But that's what works for me, if your fish have slightly sunken bellies then increase the feed a little, if they have slightly rounded bellies I'd decrease it a little, IMO the majority of fish are overfed in aquaria. My working of it is that I feed small amounts twice a day with the aim of having no pellets left floating/on the ground after about 15 seconds - it's my opinion that if you're putting in food and a load of it is getting past your fish, you're probably putting in too much. Obviously some will get down to the bottom and the aim is to balance it so that enough gets to the bottom feeders whilst not overfeeding the more voracious eaters. This is why I put half of the feed in to float and then fling the other half in to sink once the pushy eaters are busy chowing down.

Fish list in those tanks:

1x 7.5" Rotkeil severum (main diet is 2x 7.5mm pellets per day but also grazes on pellets.)
7x 3" Bolivian Rams
2x 1.5" Laetacara
4x Adult multies
1x 3-3.5" Julidochromis
2x 2.5-3.5" P. taeniatus dehane
10x Adult Rummynose tetra
2x Adult harlequin rasbora
4x 3" congo tetra
1x 8" pleco (feeds on the 1mm pellets too)

This is how much they get, this amount is for TWO feedings in the day, this is on average what I share out between that stock list, bear in mind the Rotkeil gets 2x 7.5mm pellets. It sounds nuts but I try to give each of my fish only a few pellets each, twice a day, that's it. If I put that amount in and see that a few fish haven't really had any then I simply add a touch more, much better way of doing it IMO. NLS is pokey stuff and they really don't need much. Obviously certain species like Tropheus seem to fare much better if their gut is constantly full, so it is dependant on the fish as to how much you feed and with what frequency - ie with Tropheus I would feed smaller amounts but more frequently.


















If I remember correctly Neil (who works RandD for NLS) feeds approx 1 heaped teaspoon to his 100+ gallon peacock/mbuna tank, once or perhaps twice a day. I will try and find where I read that to confirm it for you.

If you are having issues getting the fish to spawn you may want to look into your water change routine, your parameters, the tankmates and other potential stressors that will influence the fish and potentially impede any such activity. In the post I linked you to you will see I mention how something as simple as an increase in photoperiod can trigger spawning, even a slight drop in temperature can be all it takes. So maybe if you can give either us here or those in the African section some details, it may help point out something that has been overlooked.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't think Malawi require "conditioning" of the female to induce spawning the way some non-cichlid species do. If they are mature, healthy, opposite genders and without intimidating tankmates they will spawn.

IMO people just like to give their fish a treat. I think they feed krill and brine shrimp more often than raw shrimp. Krill is an ingredient in many pellets.

I think Fryeri are easy to spawn. I'd look for other issues rather than feed unless they are skinny.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

I think you may actually be over feeding. It is one reason fish refuse to spawn, if there is abundant food around it turns the breeding cycle upside down. A full tablespoon of NLS is alot of food. I feed 4 tanks no more then half a teaspoon as well as flakes.
Try slowing down a bit, some of us feed by the rule "only what they can eat in a minute" per day without any of the food hitting the floor of the tank.
If you feeding like you are then live or fresh food isn't going to help at all


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## tyrone (Mar 20, 2003)

Ok I will now reduce the amount of food but will try and stick to twice a. day with smaller amounts. I do weekly water changes once a week about 50% or more. We have been getting water with a slightly higher salt content as compared to sweet/fresh water before but the fish are perfectly fine. No issues as such.

Recently the fryeri was seriously in the mood trying to spawn with one of the females but the dolphins & labs were always disturbing them  the female didn't look ready even though she was following his enticements 

Gibbs, I read somewhere here that if fish are not fed well and not healthy they will not spawn as they need the extra nutrients to survive for 21 days without eating????? That's what also encouraged me to feed a bit extra to induce a spawn.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Staple, stable diet bud, that's what is needed, you are overfeeding quite substantially by the sounds of it. With a stable and healthy diet your fish will be plenty fit enough to endure the spawning "ritual", lets focus on just getting one thing right at a time .

Sounds to me like you know what the problem is with your fryeri not spawning - ie the disturbances, I'm not all to knowledgeable on Malawi stocklists so someone may want to comment on that but it seems like that's what needs to be remedied. If the female is following the action she's probably getting the idea, it usually takes a while of one leading the other (in many species IME) before the other gets it or decides to fully commit to spawning, if it's not due to interruption from other fish then it's simply that she will pick it up soon. How long have they been seriously courting one another? It does take time initially but once they get started good luck stopping them!


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## tyrone (Mar 20, 2003)

Ok ok I get it Blair  I'll reduce the feedings to once a day from tomorrow and the quantity of the pellets too  Are you sure it will be ok as per the size & number of fish I have, as shown in my signature below? The Borleyi is really huge and so are the dolphins..

The fryeri were trying to spawn about a couple of weeks ago. Quite recent. She didn't seem compacted with eggs though.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Woah easy now - small steps, small steps bud. If you suddenly change things like that in an instant you can adversely effect your fish. Slowly start reducing the feed - just take it back bit by bit each day and YOU are the best judge for how much they need to eat, taking into account how I explained my process for ensuring they are all fed but not overfed - this way you can get a gradual idea of how much less you need to feed and the fish get accustomed to it as well (gotta be careful with those mbuna).

:thumb:


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## tyrone (Mar 20, 2003)

Ok I haven't fed them since yesterday morning with the leftover food which had finally disappeared when I returned from work  . Maybe I'll let them off today and do my weekly water change and then start with a slightly reduced feed from tomorrow.

Mostly have Haps except for the yellow labs


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I've read of people who stop feeding entirely for a couple days to get their fish to breed. I don't know how or why this would work but the ones that do it say it does. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt the fish to go a couple days without food but I'm definately not recommending it. I'm sure there's all kinds of things people do to try to get their fish to breed. Probably most are unnecessary because if the fish aren't breeding I would think something was amiss and not just the lack of Barry White music playing :lol: . For instance, the OP's problem is most likely other fish interferring, from what I've read of his post. I have an approx. 2.75" female C. borleyi, that is a tank boss and I'm sure she would do anything she could to stop it from happening if saw 2 fish trying to mate :roll: .


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I've read of people who stop feeding entirely for a couple days to get their fish to breed. I don't know how or why this would work but the ones that do it say it does. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt the fish to go a couple days without food but I'm definately not recommending it. I'm sure there's all kinds of things people do to try to get their fish to breed. Probably most are unnecessary because if the fish aren't breeding I would think something was amiss and not just the lack of Barry White music playing :lol: . For instance, the OP's problem is most likely other fish interferring, from what I've read of his post. I have an approx. 2.75" female C. borleyi, that is a tank boss and I'm sure she would do anything she could to stop it from happening if she saw 2 fish trying to mate :roll: .


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## tyrone (Mar 20, 2003)

Dewdrop, you know in fact, coming to think of it, our Male Borelyi was in fact shielding the spawing pair from the dolphins and chasing them away from the breediing pair.

Sadly still, nothing happened that time.


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## baza (Apr 7, 2008)

hi

I Feed mine live freshwater prawns occasionally when i can be bothered to go catch them.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Right, just to clarify, tyrone:

The RandD fellow for New Life Spectrum has a 125 gallon aquarium with Africans in it, they get approx 1 slightly rounded off teaspoon a day.

Bear in mind that it's a mix of approx 20 mbuna, haps, and peacocks, with some of the haps being in the 8 inch range.

So you can really get an idea for how much extra you've been giving to your fish! Do I read correctly that there's enough left over that they were still scavenging for it the following day after feeding? Dude, really not good! I'm amazed you haven't had any issues with that much food.

You can start by reducing to 2 *tea*spoons per day with the sort of amount I use (see my pics again), just slowly scatter it about the tank so it gets to all the fish. Gradually reduce the amount daily until you're down to the same amount as 1 slightly heaped *tea*spoon per day - if you wish you can do what I do and split that in half, into two feedings. The fact that there is so much excess shows that you can actually reduce the amount quite a bit initially and the fish will be none the wiser as they are obviously only eating so much at once.

Once you are down to 1 slightly heaped teaspoon a day then after a month or so you can decide if your fish are getting skinny/staying chubby, in which case you can then either increase a TINY amount, or decrease a TINY amount, then play it out etc.

:thumb:


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## tyrone (Mar 20, 2003)

Hey Blair thanks for the clarification and the advice. I really appreciate it.  As of today I have begun reducing the amount of feed but fed only once as we returned home quite late so didn't feed again.

No; with regard to that time, there were a lot of pellets still left over after about 3-4 minutes of putting it in. But when we were home half day after work, they were all gone.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My pellets mostly never even hit the substrate because the fish get them first. I have to make SURE a couple make it down there for the catfish.


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## tyrone (Mar 20, 2003)

That's so true. Mine go into a frenzy the minute the pellets touch the water but some still manage to reach the bottom.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Once you wean them to the correct level, it's a good way to guage IMO. Put in only enough so the fish get all the pellets before they hit the ground. I feed once/day and they get 2 chances (I walk around to all the tanks, feed half their allotment, they eat it all, and I come back and put in the 2nd half).


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