# Issues with a SA tank



## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Background - tank has been set up for 3-4 years, 2 years ago, I foolishly brought home a sick angelfish from an auction. Since that time, there has been a relatively steady parade of fish death.

Tank Set up 125 gallon tank, with a 30 gal sump for filtration, kept at 80*. Filter media includes poret foam, ceramic rings, other bio media (unsure of brand).

pH is 7.6-7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrates up to 40-60 pre water change, usually sub 20 after changes.

Doing 50-70% changes weekly to every 10 days, depending on time of year.

Inhabitants current
1 Turquoise Severum
6 Red Head Tapajos
1 Gold Gourami
~6 bristle nose
2 Angels
1 Guianacara Sphenozoa
2 keyhole

Symptoms seen varied symptoms, most of the time the fish show no outward sign of disease/stress one day, then one fish is clearly not right and is in upper corner, breathing rapidly, gone the next day. Other times it has been seen as a swim bladder issue where the fish behaves more like a goby and swims jerkily. I've seen white patches on skin a couple times on angelfish before they die as well. Generally, the fish die in a day or so after I see symptoms, up until that point they usually are eating and behaving normally.

A couple of the fish I've been able to get into a hospital tank and medicated without success. I've also treated the entire tank with metro based on local advice.

This all stems back to the sick angel. The first fish that died were the other angels, one after the other every 2 or 3 weeks. Then lost Hecklii, and festivum in similar ways. The tank stablilized last spring and had no losses for ~6 months, at which time I added 3 additional Red Heads.

3 angels were added a month ago. One died a couple of days ago. One of the red head's has a swim bladder issue, and a keyhole looks like it has dropsy, as it is visibly bloated and scales are popped out slightly. Both of these are still eating fine.

I'm struggling trying to figure out what to treat with, as my experience with medicines has been poor at best, and there do not seem to be consistency in symptoms. I do have enough metro to dose the tank again for a 3 cycle batch, but that may or may not be the right medicine.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Are you sure it's not an aggression issue? Some of the symptoms you named off sound similar to the actions of a bullied fish. Severums are known to be pretty aggressive, especially when they start to mature. I wouldn't consider that species to be compatible with angels either.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Good question. The severum is apparently one of the peaceful ones. Possibly the most mellow fish in the tank. Reasonably sure it is not aggression.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Well, after doing a little research to refresh my memory on a few things, columnaris seems to be a likely suspect considering the fact that certain conditions can allow the bacteria to enter the bloodstream and quickly progress causing complete system septicemia and death. Sometimes with outward symptoms and sometimes not. It would explain the white patches on some of the angels and the random victims. It's just a theory, but maybe a round of treatment with kanamycin would be better than metro. Cupramine is also a pretty good wide spectrum medicine that can be used with antibiotics. Also try to keep temps as close as possible when doing water changes because that can be a big factor in weakening the immune system and allowing infection.


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## Discusluv (Jun 1, 2017)

Most likely the slower developing variant of the four different types of columnaris. The most effective medication combination for columnaris is nitrofurazone and kanamycin combination. Singly, they are not near as effective in shutting down the illness.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Discusluv said:


> Most likely the slower developing variant of the four different types of columnaris. The most effective medication combination for columnaris is nitrofurazone and kanamycin combination. Singly, they are not near as effective in shutting down the illness.


This is also true. It's been quite some time since I've had to treat for it but nitrofurazone in combination with kanamycin is very effective at treating all strains.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

I thank you for the input, doing some research on columnaris, makes it look very likely like the issue I'm dealing with. This is one of those times where having a large tank sure does make costs go up. Treating 125 gallons. Ugh.

Ordering the meds today - last night lowered the temp to 75 and added non iodized salt as some searches directed.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

No problem, I know how frustrating it is.


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## Discusluv (Jun 1, 2017)

nodima said:


> I thank you for the input, doing some research on columnaris, makes it look very likely like the issue I'm dealing with. This is one of those times where having a large tank sure does make costs go up. Treating 125 gallons. Ugh.
> 
> Ordering the meds today - last night lowered the temp to 75 and added non iodized salt as some searches directed.


Good luck to you.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Discusluv said:


> nodima said:
> 
> 
> > I thank you for the input, doing some research on columnaris, makes it look very likely like the issue I'm dealing with. This is one of those times where having a large tank sure does make costs go up. Treating 125 gallons. Ugh.
> ...


Thanks! First time dealing with this in 30 years, it is quite frustrating, to say the least.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Quick update, I was away on business until yesterday (Thurs), and started the medicine last night. The instructions stated to run for 3-5 days, but if you don't see improvement within 3 days, to stop at 3. Assuming we are correct in the diagnosis, should the turnaround really be that quick?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My fish showed improvement on all the meds, and pretty quickly. My problem was when I stopped the meds the lesions came back.


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