# Algae eaters and Apistogramma agassizi



## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hello,

I am on the hunt for a good algae eater for my 26G which has a pair of aggressive apistos, a pair of Angels, 4 serpae tetras and 2 Otocinculus (who are not doing the job). I want something that will leave my live plants alone.
Last time I had received suggestions that farowella and hillstream loaches are two options. Is that a consensus and which of the two is better? I am concerned that the fish should not get beaten around by the Apisto pair so that it can get to the algae.
Many thanks.
Cres


----------



## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

I would say get some more Otocinculus and/or a bristlenose. However; the answer to your question might have more to do with the type of algae and your tank conditions. What kind of lighting/watts are you running and are you using co2 or organic carbon? Otocinculus are really small so they won't be able to keep up with large algae blooms and they won't eat all kinds of algae. If you can post a pic of your algae or let us know the type I'm sure we can get to a solution


----------



## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

BN plecos can work well, though they are egg eaters if they can fit into the females cave. I've seen my ancistrus take a fair amount of punishment inside a females cave.

Farowella are ignored IME and can help keep leaves clean. You are the best algae remover for the glass! :thumb:


----------



## Donnixd (Sep 13, 2009)

I personally donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t like having plecoÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s in small tanks.

They poo far too much making the water quality poor and unsightly. Also they can grow quite big, having them in a small tank will reduce their growth rate. IMO more Otocinculus/SAE


----------



## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

So I finally got a flying fox...I wonder if that will serve the purpose of eating algae and leaving the plants alone. The guy at the LFS said that they leave the plants alone...
Any comments? 
Thanks.
Cres


----------



## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

A few different species may be called flying fox. If it is a true Siamese Algae Eater, they are suppose to be the mose efficiant algae eater available. Some others that may be called flying fox will avoid certain types of algae and eat the slime coats on other fish. It is important to know what kind of algae you are dealing with and what is the cause of it before you can combat it.


----------



## aspen (Jun 15, 2004)

i would take the flying fox back and buy 2 small sae. they are the best algae eater for that tank. they eat all types of algae and won't eat eggs or fry ime. the pleco would eat your flat leafed plants (swords) and fry and you don't need them.

if they aren't eating enough algae at the start, leave the lights off a few days and let them catch up. 2 will definately be able to maintain a tank that size.

rick


----------



## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Donnixd said:


> I personally donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t like having plecoÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s in small tanks.
> 
> They poo far too much making the water quality poor and unsightly. Also they can grow quite big, having them in a small tank will reduce their growth rate. IMO more Otocinculus/SAE


SAEs create just as much waste as plecos do. Mine are larger than my BN plecos.


----------



## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

adam79 said:


> A few different species may be called flying fox. If it is a true Siamese Algae Eater, they are suppose to be the mose efficiant algae eater available. Some others that may be called flying fox will avoid certain types of algae and eat the slime coats on other fish. It is important to know what kind of algae you are dealing with and what is the cause of it before you can combat it.[/quote
> 
> Well, the guy at the LFS told me that they are flying foxes and he has one in his tank that eats algae very well. So far for me the fish has not touched any algae, there is tons of brown and green hair algae in there. I don't know what he was talking about. Perhaps I have to return it...don't know.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

:roll: #1 Hahahahaha! It's been less than 48 hours since you bought the flying fox. Give it time to settle in before you decide if it's doing a job or not of eating the algea.

:roll: #2 Hahahahaha! _Well, the guy at the LFS told me..._. I'm sorry dude, but we all learn that the guy at the LFS is more often concerned about making a sale, than actually providing real advice. I'm not saying all LFS employees/managers/owners are like this, there are some very good ones out there, but there are also many who are more concerned about making a buck.

OK *crescendo999* I think it's time you slowed down and started paying attention to the people who post in your threads. Otherwise your going to start throwing good money after bad if you continue in this hobby. And more importantly, you will not get any enjoyment from the hobby, and give it up, or worse, just letting your tank go, without keeping up with the required maintenance.

If you had answered the very first reply in this thread by *adam79* before you went and bought an algea eater we might have been able to provide some suitable solutions. Alternatively if you simply googled hair algea and clicked the first link, you would of had a better idea of what type of algea you have and found a suitable solution.

It is important to find the cuase of the algea growth. While it is natural to have some algea in a fish tank, massive algea growths or blooms are often symptoms that something is out of whack in your tank, and this should be addressed as well. Common cuases for large algea growths are over feading a tank and the uneaten food breaking down in your tank, and water changes not being performed regularly enough. Both result in nitrates rising in your tank, and algea feed off of nitrates.

Also, if you click on the link I provided above, at the bottom of the page is a good picture of a Siamese Algae Eater.


----------



## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

The green hair algae is usually due to an abundance of nutrients and too much light. Is the brown algae a hair algae that apears brown or is it brown algae on the rocks and glass? Brown algae is usually due to either a lack of light or too many nutrients and silicates.

What is your wattage?
Do you use CO2 or organic carbon?
Do you use fertilizers?

Inform us about all the elements of your tank. Ph, gh, temp, substrate, plants, ect.


----------



## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

Also, I would recommend going to www.plantedtank.net. There are some really knowledgable people on there. Just let them know everything about your tank and what you are dealing with.


----------



## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

DeadFishFloating said:


> :roll: #1 Hahahahaha! It's been less than 48 hours since you bought the flying fox. Give it time to settle in before you decide if it's doing a job or not of eating the algea.
> 
> :roll: #2 Hahahahaha! _Well, the guy at the LFS told me..._. I'm sorry dude, but we all learn that the guy at the LFS is more often concerned about making a sale, than actually providing real advice. I'm not saying all LFS employees/managers/owners are like this, there are some very good ones out there, but there are also many who are more concerned about making a buck.
> 
> ...


I am glad I have given you reason to chuckle!  I have to admit that I tend to get impulsive in the quest for the perfectly stable aquarium. Anyhow, you were right, the flying fox is actually doing a great job of dealing with the algae. I guess he just needed time to settle down. The green hair algae took off when I changed my light bulb to a 10000K one that the LFS guy  said would be good for my plants (which it is) but it also seems to be making the algae go a little wild. Anyhow it seems that the flying fox may be the answer. He seems to enjoy munching on some plants unfortunately and I am hoping that doesn't become his favorite snack sans the algae. Thanks for your help! Cheers. Cres


----------



## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

adam79 said:


> The green hair algae is usually due to an abundance of nutrients and too much light. Is the brown algae a hair algae that apears brown or is it brown algae on the rocks and glass? Brown algae is usually due to either a lack of light or too many nutrients and silicates.
> 
> What is your wattage?
> Do you use CO2 or organic carbon?
> ...


So this is what I know:
Watts is 18 but it is a 10000K bulb which I recently changed for my plants and has been quite incredible for them. HOwever since the switch the green hair algae has taken off. The brown algae grows on rocks and glass but may have actually slowed down a bit since I changed the bulb. I do not use CO2 but do use liquid fertilizer for the plants. I do not check the Ph, the temperature is 77F, substrate is just regular granules of some sort. I have an assortment of plants...amazon sword plants (that seem to be doing the least well), anubias (which is doing great), java fern (that seems very slow growing but healthy)...the hornwort is doing great and so is the tiger lotus and the single onion plant. THere are two other varieties that I do not know names for which are doing just so-so. I dont know what gh and ect are and have never checked them! Thanks.


----------



## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

did anyone mention Nerite snails? They are harmless to plants and cannot reproduce in fresh water. They are also really good at cleaning up algea. 4-5 of them in that size tank and it should be cleaned up in less than a week.


----------



## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

redblufffishguy said:


> did anyone mention Nerite snails? They are harmless to plants and cannot reproduce in fresh water. They are also really good at cleaning up algea. 4-5 of them in that size tank and it should be cleaned up in less than a week.


Hmm, I thought all snails also eat plants and breed like crazy as they are hermaphrodite. No? I recall the chap at the LFS did say they had a snail that didnt breed in fresh water....is this really the case with the snail you mentioned? That sounds too good to be true!


----------



## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

i have dozzens of them in my tanks. they do not eat plants,










There are at least 20 in that tank!

And although they do lay eggs (look like little white dots on the plants and glass) the eggs cannot hatch in fresh water. The specific gravity is not high enough.

If your LFS has them expect to pay 3.00-5.00 each. they look like this:


----------



## aspen (Jun 15, 2004)

>>'I do not use CO2 but do use liquid fertilizer for the plants.'

i wouldn't use too much fert in that tank. like maybe 1/10th of what the directions call for, maybe up to 1/4.

rick


----------



## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

It could be the case that you are over fertilizing. I don't think your lighting is an over-kill. Start of by manually removing as much of the algae you can. Use a toothbrush to twirl the hair algae around and simply scrub the brown algae where you can. It sounds like the brown algae is reducing due to your new light, so don't worry so much about that. If you aren't already, start dosing flourish excel or some other organic carbon. Plants need co2 or carbon in the photosynthesis process. The plants do produce there own co2 when the lights are out, but a great deal of it is most likely lost though surface agitation. The excel will keep your algae down as well, at least I know it does with most algae. You may also want to cut the duration of light. I don't know how long your lights are on each day, but maybe cut out a couple hours. Then just keep an eye on things, keep up on water changes and cleaning, and watch whatever little algae eater suits your fancy keep the algae in check. I'll be honest, my knowledge is only slightly above elementry when it comes to planted tanks. I am a beginner myself. I have had my share of problems and have done a lot of research because of those problems. *I wanted to get you to realize that you may have an algae problem and not a fish problem. It seems this was the case*. You may have ended up with 20 algae eaters in your tank with no change. Once again, if you haven't already, go to www.plantedtank.net. There are some very knowledgable folks on there. They may have a different solution and you should listen to them over me. I hope I'm right, but I don't want to steer you wrong. Let me know what they say. :thumb:


----------



## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

I missed that post saying that you use liquid fert. Does the fert say on the bottle that is is phosphate free? if not that could be your problem. Personally I do not use any fert at all. I add a measured amount of chealted iron with water changes, but that is it. In fact my CO2 bottle has been empty for a few months, and the plants are still thriving. my lighting is 12 hours per day and is 3.25 watts per gallon.

I have 4 SAE's, and a couple dozen Nerite snails. Before the algae crew was added, my algae was out of control, now i have to supplement with algae wafers once a week.

just my situation....

RBFG


----------



## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

redblufffishguy said:


> I missed that post saying that you use liquid fert. Does the fert say on the bottle that is is phosphate free? if not that could be your problem. Personally I do not use any fert at all. I add a measured amount of chealted iron with water changes, but that is it. In fact my CO2 bottle has been empty for a few months, and the plants are still thriving. my lighting is 12 hours per day and is 3.25 watts per gallon.
> 
> I have 4 SAE's, and a couple dozen Nerite snails. Before the algae crew was added, my algae was out of control, now i have to supplement with algae wafers once a week.
> 
> ...


That is very helpful! Thanks a lot. The liquid fert is phosphate free. I am going to look into getting the Nerite Snail...it sounds great. My flying fox has started to eat some algae now. Do you know if the snail will also eat the green hair algae? Thanks
Cres


----------



## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

I am not sure which green hair algea you are talking about...

I have a small patch of it in my 80 gallon (pictured above), but it is very similar to the algae on the "moss balls" you can buy in the pet stores. The snails don't eat it. however it is the only algae they have not eaten so far.


----------



## apistomaster (Jun 22, 2006)

Back at the beginning there was the suggestion of getting some Otocinclus for your Apistogramma tank and that was good advice.
A Twig Catfish, Farlowella species, is also a good choice if your tank is large enough, at least 20 gal and you provide supplementary feedings of parboiled zuchinni and canned green beans but they are harder to keep.

Neither the true SAE or their Fly Fox relative are safe in an Apistogramma breeding tank. They will eat eggs and fry.


----------

