# Going against my own advice..55g all male mbuna...+?s



## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I've decided to keep only one tank up and running at my house (besides a 20gL for timeout/hospital). That one tank is an all male 55g mbuna tank. Right now I have 7 fish in there. This is my second go at all male mbuna (last go was 2 1/2 years ago).

Current stock 55g
-Labeotropheus fuelleborni (Katale Island) 
-Pseduotropheus salosi
-Iodotropheus sprengera "Rusty" 
-"Perlmutt" 
-Cynotilapia afra (Likoma)
-Pseduotropheus socolofi (albino)
-Cynotilapia "Hara"

The fish range in size from the largest a fuellborni (~5.5") to the smallest an afra (~2.25). The saulosi and afra have similar color/barring which might become a problem. The saulosi is full grown so the afra really hasnt stood up to him yet. The fuelleborni is a big fish and is very bossy. He could definitly do the most damage. Not sure the odds of this working out but i do have more experience now and have a spare tank for hospital purposes.

While searching the forum for all male mubna species suggestions I landed on a post from two years ago were i replied to someone asking about an all male mbuna tank. I told them that i thought a 55g was too small for an all male mbuna tank. :lol: So going against my own advice I now have a 55g all male mbuna...again. ha

Also I am in need of two more fish. Only problem is the local selection is not that good and I'm not going to buy 2 fish online. So with that in mind.

From this list which two would you pick to add to my tank?

-Sciaenochromis Fryeri
-Metriaclima greshakei (albino or standard)
-Metriaclima estherae "red zebra"
-Labidochromis caeruleus "yellow lab"
-Pseudotropheus "acei" yellow tail
-OB hybrid Peacock

I know the selection is slim but this is about all i have to choose from right now (except a kenyi but i didnt even list him).

I will update this post when I make changes to the tank or just to let you know how the tank is working out.

Thanks for reading and wish me luck!


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

WHOOOHOOOO!

I know we've talked a bit in the past and I say go for it! I love the all male Mbuna tank set-up! I've had mine going on almost 2 yrs now. A few quick observations form your post. IMO....

I'd get rid of the fuelleborni (too big and might get too aggressive for some of the cyno's)

I'd also stay away from any hap/peacocks...I've tried them and they eventually don't work out (even my OB died  )

From the list you suggested, I'd go with the Acei and Red Zebra or Acei, YL and Greshakei if you replace the fuelleborni! Good luck!


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

I guess not that many people are interested in the all-male mbuna idea.....lol....Anyways, in your comments regarding the Afra/Saulosi.....I think you might be okay in the short term but might have problems when they are all grown. I've heard of all-male mbuna tanks with multiple cyno's and other similar barred species with only minor problems. I still think it's kinda a chance but give it a shot! You have the hospital tank set-up which is good, I'd remove the bully and leave the bullied in the main tank (if it comes to that).

I recently had remove my Met. Aurora from my tank. It's always a constant suffle. He was getting bullied by not just one but, most of my males. He didn't get damaged or beat up, just constantly chased. So, I put him in my 30gal Saulosi colony and he seems much happier. The Saulosi don't mind him and they still stay colored up even though he's about 4in and most of my Saulosi's are only about 2-2.5 in. I'm hoping he doesn't grow too much more because 30gal is not much room however, if he stays around 4-4.5 in then I don't see any problems with it!

Alright, now I'm just yapping away....lol.....As I said before, I like your list except for the fuelleborni. I think he's just too much of a risk. Is he an OB? If you like the color of that fish, why don't you look at a OB zebra? That would still give you the color you're looking for while at the same time giving you a smaller and less aggressive fish. I think you have the right idea for the tank (get as many males that look different but still have simliar temperments). Good luck and continue to let us/me know how things go!


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

I don't think it makes much difference between a Fuelleborni or Zebra. Both can be tough.

Are you guessing on the location of the Fuelleborni or Afra? You can't really assume random fish are exact races.

I would want more than 7 or 9 fish. Personally I don't see a big advantage in having a male tank. Any of your additions would be okay except a S. fryeri may not do well. Yellow labs would do fine but they are very hard to sex.


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

noki said:


> *I don't think it makes much difference between a Fuelleborni or Zebra. Both can be tough. *
> Are you guessing on the location of the Fuelleborni or Afra? You can't really assume random fish are exact races.
> 
> I would want more than 7 or 9 fish. *Personally I don't see a big advantage in having a male tank.* Any of your additions would be okay except a S. fryeri may not do well. Yellow labs would do fine but they are very hard to sex.


From my experience, 9 times outta 10 the fuelleborni is gonna big bigger and meaner.

Have you ever had a all-male mbuna tank noki? I say to each thier own but, I'd take an all-male mbuna over 3 species tank in a 55gal all day, everyday! Labs are not any harder to sex than any of the other monomorphic species and you really can't go more than about 7-10 single mbunas in a 55 gal. Anyway, it's usually a juggling act to maintain but the results are well worth it in my opinion :thumb:


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

noki said:


> Are you guessing on the location of the Fuelleborni or Afra? You can't really assume random fish are exact races.


The fuelle was wild caught and imported by wet spot. He is definitly katale and is standard not OB. The afra is a F1 from Daves.

*@esparzar1* - Thanks for the comments and I know you've had your all male running for a while so i'm glad you decided to comment on my post. The fuelle is probably my favorite fish so he is going to be really hard to get rid off. I'm definitly keeping my eye on him but so far he hasnt hurt anyone and will stay in the tank. 
The afra and the perlmutt have small bites out of their fin and i've seen the saulosi chasing them a bit (guessing he did the fin bitting) but so far nothing even close to a serious problem.


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

man, that makes is tough to get rid of since it's a WC and the Afra is a F1 :drooling: ....perhaps you could go with a few more "aggressive" species to even out the temper of the fuelle? Is he full grown at 5.5? If so, then you might be okay. My Met. Gresh. is at least 6in and I think he's done growing. He's a freakin beast...lol...big and fat but since he's now completly full grown, he's calmed down and is not aggresive in any way, shape, or form, he just chills in his cave most of the day. Maybe, once things calm down a bit the fuelle won't be so bad? Another idea would be to remove the fuelle while you stock the other fish and add him last once everyone is established :-? :-? It might help! I also think (or at least hope) that once everyone is established things will calm down. When I first started out with the all male idea I had lots of "trail and errors" for the first few months. But now, everyone is chill and they get along. Heck, I'd even say that there is less aggression now then when I had M/F ratios in the tank...lol........Anyway, you better post some pics when you are all set...lol


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

When i got the fuelle he was ~5". He's probably only put on a half an inch in the last year or so. Theres a good chance he will not grow much more. Also I have no idea how old he is. He's actually alot more chill then i thought he would be with the other males. When I come up to the tank and he thinks its dinner time he will start moving the fish out of the way but hasn't done any serious chasing or hasn't tried to nip at a fish. Seems he is just using his size to intimidate the other fish out of the way.

I've heard from alot of people that once they get full grown they calm down a bit (like with your m. greshakei). Hopefully my fuelle is close to this stage of his life.

The afra is a perfect example on one side of his body but has a little flaw on the other (one bar splits into two at the bottom). He's still a really cool fish and awsome looking.

Yeah i will definitly post some pics of the tank once the fish get into the groove of things. I'll also let you know what other species i pick. There is one more store i can go to in town that has a decent selection so i'll probably check them out too. As of now i'm leaning towards an acei.


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

Sounds like you lucked out with the fuelle :thumb:

The Acei would be a great choice to add! Mine is around 6in and minds his own buisness! He's at the bottom of the male dominance chain but his sheer size keeps most of the other males dissinterested. So are you looking at only adding the Acei now? Or are you still looking at maybe a few others? You have a good mix while avoiding too many similar looking species. I'd like to add maybe one more to my current stock but I'm afraid it might throw things outta harmony. I personally think my current mix has too much blue/purple in the tank (Met. gresh/Acei/Cobalt/) even the Polit looks dark purple when subdominant. I've tried to avoid multiple barred species by just having the ZLP and Hongi SRT but, I still don't know the long term affects of those two (I added them last and my SRT is still a juvie at only 2 in) they are okay right now (ZLP/SRT) but I'm afraid of what will happen when the SRT gets full grown. I'm in the same boat as you...lol...my SRT is an F1 and I don't want to get rid of him. I guess it's just a waiting game


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

I don't mean to "highjack" your thread but I wanted to show what my fish look like in my 55gal!!!!!

P.S. It's a really crappy camera so the pics might not be the best...lol

4.5 inch Yellow Lab









5 inch Red Zebra









6 inch Acei









6 inch Ice Blue...this pic turned out a little weird for some reason, he's a lot more purple than the pic









4 inch Polit









5 inch Cobalt









4.5 inch Zebra Long Pelvic









2.75 Msobo **Has not changed color yet, starting to show black tips on bottom fins and blue on dorsal fin**









No pics of my Hongi SRT....he's small and a bit camera shy


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Your fish look great! Most of them are close to full grown and are all showing nice color. Also I didnt see any nipped or torn fins. Must be getting along nicely in that 55g :thumb:.

I went to the LFS yesterday but didnt buy anything. Terrible selection. So I decided to order 3 fish online. If i go for 10 and end up having to remove 1 or 2 then i will be at the number i need. I ordered a p. acei ngara "white tail acei", "msobo", and a "hongi". Fish dont ship till next week so if anyone wants to comment on those choices please do. I can still make changes to my order for a couple more days.


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## RRasco (Aug 31, 2006)

I'm converting my 55g mbuna to an all male shortly as well. It's mainly various males as is, but I do have breeding groups of hara (4) and acei (3) in there, but they are moving to breeding tanks in the next few weeks. I thought I was alone in the all male mbuna land. Was pretty sure somebody else had or was doing it, but I never heard it mentioned. Good to know there has been previous success!


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

Gafishman,
I love your choices :thumb: =D> That will be a great selection to have and a great color scheme for the species as well! 10 should be okay....I have 9 and most of them are full grown but sometimes it still seems like I can add more, so 10 should be perfect!

RRasco, 
I think more people don't do it because its definetly tough to find good harmony. Once you do though, I think it's well worth it! Good luck


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## LanceN34 (Mar 24, 2011)

GaFishMan1181 said:


> Your fish look great! Most of them are close to full grown and are all showing nice color. Also I didnt see any nipped or torn fins. Must be getting along nicely in that 55g :thumb:.
> 
> I went to the LFS yesterday but didnt buy anything. Terrible selection. So I decided to order 3 fish online. If i go for 10 and end up having to remove 1 or 2 then i will be at the number i need. I ordered a p. acei ngara "white tail acei", "msobo", and a "hongi". Fish dont ship till next week so if anyone wants to comment on those choices please do. I can still make changes to my order for a couple more days.


Hongi's are such cool fish. The range of colors that they can change is amazing. Mine can look like 10 different fish. Sometimes he's almost all black, then blue with stripes, then when he's really fired up he's a lavender color with black stripes.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

@RRasco- Awsome, welcome to the club! Whats the stocklist of your tank going to be?

@esparzar1- I've wanted a white tail acei for sometime now so thats exciting. I'm just hoping they do a good job of sexing him (fingers crossed). I had and order from a different place (years ago) where i wanted a male daktari and it came holding fry in its mouth so....hoping this time will be different.

I'm also exicited about the msobo. I wanted a smaller one so most likely he will be somewhere around the stage yours is at. It will be interesting to see what he ends up looking like. They all look so different.

@LanceN34- Thats good to hear. I've seen some pretty awsome pics of hongis and have noticed the wide range of colors they show. Hows the temperament of your hongi?


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## RRasco (Aug 31, 2006)

GaFishMan1181 said:


> @RRasco- Awsome, welcome to the club! Whats the stocklist of your tank going to be?


Current:

3 Pseudotropheus elegans Luwala Reef 'Yellow Tail Acei' 
1 Labidochromis Caeruleus
5 Cynotilapia sp. 'White Top Hara' 
1 Melanochromis auratus 
1 Lodotropheus sprengerae 'Rusty' 
1 Pseudotropheus socolofi 
1 Tropheops sp. 'Red Cheek'

Everything in there is already male, except for the YL which is a female and the groups of Hara and Acei, which I will be removing. I have an extra male Hara and Acei I will be leaving in there.

So.....instead of rambling, I am planning to start with:

Pseudotropheus elegans Luwala Reef 'Yellow Tail Acei' 
Labidochromis Caeruleus (need to find a male to replace my female)
Cynotilapia sp. Hara
Melanochromis auratus 
Lodotropheus sprengerae 'Rusty' 
Pseudotropheus socolofi 
Tropheops sp. 'Red Cheek'

I lost my Red Zebra and Polit in the last 6 months, so I'd like to try them again at some point. Don't think aggression played a role, but you never know. I'd also like a White Tail Acei. Then I'll sit back and see how it works out.


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

Rasco,

How does the red cheek troph and auratus hold up in the tank. They're both pretty aggressive but I guess if they didn't have females to chase and pick on they might be a bit calmer :-? I've always like the red cheek but I was always afraid that it would be to aggressive for the other fish.


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## Malawi_Marc (Mar 13, 2009)

I've done it and had a great experience, no problems at all!

I added small round mirrors in the tank, it kept them
coloured up thinking there was another male of the same species in the tank and it also helped keep aggression down.


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## RRasco (Aug 31, 2006)

esparzar1 said:


> Rasco,
> 
> How does the red cheek troph and auratus hold up in the tank. They're both pretty aggressive but I guess if they didn't have females to chase and pick on they might be a bit calmer :-? I've always like the red cheek but I was always afraid that it would be to aggressive for the other fish.


They're both docile in that tank. The Red Cheek actually gets a bite here and there overnight. Not sure if he's provoking it, but I don't ever see him starting anything. The Hara is the king of the tank.


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## PortiaD (Mar 7, 2011)

Mine isn't all male and my stocking is currently more than a little messed up, but I had one OB I had to return to the peacock tank and another who chomped my juvie johanii's tail off. However, the tail chomping was because my power was off most of the day and my cynotilapia lion decided he was a she when the temperature dropped and started laying eggs. (The johanii is now in quarantine recovering and waiting for the day he grows up to exact his revenge.)

So some OB's can hold their own...in my admitedly very, very limited experience.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I have a few updates. My three new fish arrived this morning looking nice and happy! The hongi is the biggest one at 3.5-4", the acei is almost just as big, and the msobo is probably more like 2.5". As far as looks go the hongi lookes great. I've already seen some serious color changes from him. The acei is really cool looking. I like the white fins against the dark body. I hope he is male though because i'm not sure if the ngara females look any different than the males. I'll have to vent him before i put him in the main tank to make sure. The msobo is mostly orange but has some dark color on his fins and his body is starting to look that weird in between color. If you look closely you can see some blue spots on his body.

As far as the main tank goes all is well except that I took the socolofi out (not sure if its for good or just temporary). He wasnt going up for food when i was feeding and didnt swim around much. He was a fish i bought from a LFS a few weeks back. I never was too sure about him. The other fish are getting along nicely.

I'll update when I put the new fish into the main tank. Also if i remember to take my camera home from work i will snap a few pictures of them.


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

So any updates? How do the new fish look?


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

The three new fish are still in the quarantine tank. I'll give them a few more days before I introduce them. I'm not sure if the acei is going to go in right away though. He seems really uninterested in the flakes i'm feeding. The other fish are feeding great but the acei rather dig in the sand all day and move pebbles. I'm not sure why the acei isnt eating. Seems happy just doesnt like the flakes.

The hongi is looking AWSOME. When he guards his corner of the tank he turns an awsome shade of blue and his dorsal fin is super red/orange. Looks like the first picture on the cichlid forum profile section for the super red top. He's my new favorite.

I know i've been promising some pics but didnt bring my camera home from work. So i'll post an old pic of my labeo fuelleborni. There alittle heavy on the flash and algae is on the tank but you'll get an idea of what my biggest male in the main tank looks like.


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

He's a good looking fish :thumb:

I have some sad news to report....my Polit died  I'm thinking the cause of death was the tank being too hot. I went on vacation for a week (I had a friend check in on them and feed them every other day while I was gone) and when I got home my tank read 89. It's really dissapointing because that was one of my favorite fish. All my readings (besides the heat) were fine. I did a immediate 50% water change and all the other fish since then seem fine. It really probably was my fault. I live in Texas and it is really HOT right now. Well, I figured to try and save some $$$$$ I'd turn off my AC in the house while I was gone. I didn't think about the tank and my house was really hot which lead to the tank being hot......that's my best guess at what happened........so now I'm down to 8 fish in the tank. I'm thinking about adding 1 or 2 more but still a little undecided on what to do....any suggestions on new possible tank mates?


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your polit dying. What do you think about the haras? Might be a good option for your tank. Or maybe a rusty or a perlmutt?


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

I've thought about the Hara's because of the nice light color contrast. I'd be a little worried though because of the ZLP/Hongi already having vertical bars. But, it's a thought. I also found some Albino Red Cheak Trophs that I like. I think if I do add another one or two they will have to be close to full grown and fairly tough/aggressive due to most of mine already being full grown. Who knows, I'm still undecided. I'd also reall like to look into the Williamsi Blue lip. That's a really cool looking species but I can't find'em anywhere.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I forgot to update that I went ahead and added the hongi and msobo to the main tank. They were only in quarantine for a week but were looking and eating great. I took a risk not leaving them in there for another week but an all male tank is risky business :lol: .

The big fuelleborni was not happy at first about having new tank mates. He freaked out for a good hour just chasing everyone in sight (especially the hongi) but eventually calmed back down. The saulosi and msobo did not like each other at all. I didnt think about it but the msobo (at his current stage) looks alot like a saulosi just starting to get its color. I was a little worried last night when i went to sleep but when i got up this morning and turned on the light all of them were looking great. I watched them for about 45 minutes and they were all playing nice (for mbuna).

The acei looks great and seems really healthy but still hasnt ate anything. Its been a week and he hasn't even gone for a flake. I'm going to make a post about it in the health section and wait a little while to put him in the main tank. If he doesn't eat flakes by himself then he will never eat while he is in the main tank.

@esparzar1- Its hard to say what will work out. My hara is too small to challenge my hongi so I'm not sure how they will be when fully matured. I also dont have any experience with trophs or the blue lip.


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## RRasco (Aug 31, 2006)

I have a Hongi and a Red Cheek in mine. They do fine. I did however lose a Polit 6-8 weeks ago. No damage or issues with water, but I think he got bullied to death over night.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I had always heard polit were pretty tough fish. If he was bullied to death who do you think the likely culprit was?


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## RRasco (Aug 31, 2006)

The Hara. Because of the white/black, maybe, but I do have a socolofi that never gets any attention. Hard to say really, my dom Hara is actually pretty chill. Really just a guess though. These fish are spastic. Occasionally I'll just be staring at them and ALL of them freak out, darting into hiding spots. I can literally stand there and not move and they just spaz out. They really are unique.


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

Kinda off topic but my 30gal Saulosi colony has finally produced some fry (well at least the females are holding) Maybe I'll just add a male Saulosi to the mix in the male-tank, that could be a quick fix for my obsession to add more fish....lol.... Before I started the 30 gal, I actually had a male Saulosi in the male tank and he did fine. He was the smallest but no one really bothered him and he still maintained his dominante barring however, I only had him in there for about 2 months before I switched him to the 30 gal.

GaMan, how is your Saulosi holding up in the tank?


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

My saulosi is doing great. He's over 3 years old and full grown (~3.25"). He's really thickened up over the last year and is a tough fish. He minds his own business 90% of the time. He doesnt seem to like the msobo but the msobo is only like 2.75" and doesnt present much of a problem for the saulosi yet. I'm pretty sure this aggression is from the current coloring of the msobo. The hongi and fuelleborni are both bigger than the saulosi and will occasionally chase him around but nothing past that.

As for color he is (on average) 50% the color he was when he was with his group of females. He rarely shows full color any more. 75% of what he was at best. I'm not saying he is turning yellow but he just turns a really light blue and has faint bars compared to being the darkest black and nicest blue you have seen (when in harem).

My afra (when colored up) has a similar color apperance to the saulosi but the afra is the most beta male in the group. Maybe when he gets a little bigger he will try and step up to the saulosi but not now.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Well i finally brought home the 4 year old kodak easy share from work to snap a few pictures. I actually took more like 50 or 60 pictures but these are the only even close to worth sharing.

My new favorite fish: "hongi" - Not really showing off in these pics. When he is showing off his body gets much lighter and his fins and head turn much more red/orange.



















The cichlid I've had the longest: Pseudotropheus saulosi - Only showing about 50% of his full color in this pic. Normally he shows only about 75% of what he used to show in his harem set-up.










Often overlooked but very beautiful fish: rusty



















Very excited to see what this guy ends up looking like: msobo - Starting to change colors! When he shows off his body and head starts to get really dirty looking. Can't wait for the transformation.










Here is my afra. He's a likoma red top. As you can see in this photo he's not really showing off all that much. When he does his fin turns orange/red on top. He still has some growing to do.










Here are a few size comparison pictures. First is my fuelleborni next to my msobo. The fuelleborni is probably 90% full grown. Msobo is maybe 2.75".










Second size comparison: Fuelleborni next to full grown saulosi.










Here is my acei ngara in the quarantine tank. I almost didnt post this pic because it makes the fish look kind of odd. The tail is way more white in person. I need to vent this fish and make sure its male before I put it in the main tank.










Well that ends my update. I'm going to try and take some more pics later today. I didnt get a good pic of my perlmutt or hara and I really want to get a good one of my hongi and my saulosi showing off. Thanks for looking!


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

looks good! the Hongi looks great as well as the white tail and msobo. I like your choice selections that you decided on. My hongi is still really small and should end up looking really nice (has german SRT strain) so it'll be interesting. My msobo is a bit behind yours as far as the progression with color. He's started to develop the stripes in the front like yours but not quite as far along with the color change. Anyway, looks good! Still undecided myself about adding the saulosi, I'd like for him to "knock-up" a few more of my females before I decide on which way to go.....lol


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I just vented the acei and I'm excited to say it is definitly a him. I'm about to switch him over to the main tank. Guess my stocklist is complete for right now. I'll update if a fish gets switched out, if anything is added to the tank, or if i get new pics.

@esparzar1- I bet the hongi is going to look amazing! The msobo will probably catch up soon. Sounds like ours are close to the same size. What you see in my pics really just started coming on in the last couple of days. Let me know what you decide about the saulosi. Sounds like it would be worth a shot once he breeds some more.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

2 month update:

Thought I would do a quick update. No pictures right now but more will be coming soon.

The perlmutt is no longer in the tank. He was getting abused by my fuelleborni and hongi so I took him out and let him recover. I dont think he is going back in the tank since the two most dominate and largest fish do not like him.

The saulosi is the least dominate fish in the tank (but he is close to the oldest...definitly not the biggest though). Seems like the other fish do not like him but they dont try to hurt him. He has perfect fins and no marks but his color is only about 40-50% of what a full breeding male looks like.

I have 2 really small C. axelrodi in the tank. Not sure if they are male or female but no one messes with them and they should grow really quick getting all the leftovers from the big guys.

Everyone else is getting along great. The fuelleborni is still tank boss. The hongi is second in command. My acei is doing great (love that guy). My hara has been showing off his colors alot lately (looking really nice). The msobo isn't yellow much anymore. Looks like a muddy color with some blue coming through. I can't wait for him to mature. The rusty and afra are doing good (they just kind of mind there own business).

I'll update with pictures in a week or two.


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

Good stuff, thanks for the update!

I had a crazy thing happen to my tank. About 3 weeks ago I went on vaction for a few days (kept the lights off to minimize aggression). Well, my Met. estherae was always second in command (over 2 yrs) and had little scuffles/fights with my Met. Greshakei (my first in command) but nothing too serious (never nipped fins). Well, when I came but from vaction my Estherae had the #$%& kicked out of him. He was beaten up very badly. I've never had this happen before when I've been gone for long periods. He somehow lost his 2nd in command and even one of my lowest ranking males (yellow lab) was putting him in his place. Anyway, I took him out to help the healing process and put him back in the tank a few weeks later. The next day I found him dead. Bullied to death would be my guess. 

I guess it just goes to show that no matter how long you have the set-up things can go wrong. I'm down to 7 males in the tank with no noticable problems.

My Met. Gres is still first in command. He does the occasional chase to others but no noticable focus on one male. The Cobalt is the new second in command. He's pretty calm with no problems. The Acei and ZLP Modka keep to themselves and bother no one. My YL and Msobo like to fight occasially but no nipped fins/hiding and my little Hongi is the smallest and at the bottom of the pecking order. The Msobo is finally getting to look "dirty" and changing colors. He about the stage of your msobo in the picture above.

Probably gonna add at least 3 adult males when I have the chance. There was a thread a while ago about another person who had an all-male and he had something like 17 males in there. I don't recall the exact size of the tank but he mentioned that the article I wrote was good but would advise adding more males than I suggested. So, I think I'm gonna take his advise....lol....and add a minimum of 3 but more likely 5 or so.

Thinking about Cyno White Top Hara/Met. Estherae again for the nice orange contrast/and either an albino Socolofi/Zebra or a possible tropheops species (albino red cheek/chilumba). I know the tropheops can be a risk but I might be okay if added last. Who knows, any other suggestions and males?.......


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your zebra. Especially since you have had him so long. Your story makes me even less likely to try and add my perlmutt back in. I've never had good luck reintroducing injuried fish anyway. Especially if nothing in the main tank has changed.

Your greshakei sounds alot like my fuelleborni. He will chase other fish away but he doesn't try to hurt them. The perlmutt is the only fish I've seen him freak out on and try to kill (other than when I had him with his 3 females and he killed them). Everyone in the tank knows who the boss is and they respect him. Its kind of funny if fish are fighting he will just swim right through them and they will quit.

I think a cyno hara would be a good choice for your tank. You could maybe try a rusty. Mine gets picked on by the hongi some but nothing serious. You might have better luck with perlmutt than I had if you wanted to try one of those. Let me know what ya get.


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## PChap (Mar 6, 2007)

How about a full tank shot Gafishman?

Keep us posted on how it goes. I am hoping to start an all-male mbuna soon.


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

I had an extra 55gal that I was going to set up as a boring peacock breeder but I'm way more jacked to do this now....great thread guys, I hadn't really thought of doing this until I stumbled onto it...I have a 65 gal mbuna tank right now and i was going to weed my lead demasoni and my lead white top hara out of the mix and was a little bummed about having to take them back to the store but now they are just moving tanks in about a month when I can sort out the all male mbuna stock list....by the way, just in the interest of not starting a new thread, how about

Demasoni
White top hara
Yellow lab
Msobo
polit
flavus
Acei 
M. Greshaki
Callainos
Socolofi
Hongi


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

eoconnor,

Not a bad mix at all :thumb: I could see some potential problems with Dem/White top (are they already in the tank together?). If so, you might not have a problem with them. I could also see some problems with the Flavus/Hongi possibly. It's really hard to know what will/will not work when you start talking about barred species. I've had or have every species you mentioned on your list at some point except for the Flavus/White top/Dem. Good luck :fish:


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

It seems a lot of people keep Dems and Hara together, mine are already in groups together but I was planning on weeding the dominant males soon.

I wouldn't mix a dem with a saluosi or something like that though...and a maingano would probably fight with the polit?


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

PChap said:


> How about a full tank shot Gafishman?


It will be a week (two max) before I upload new pictures but I will definitly include a full tank shot. I'm waiting on the new bulbs I ordered to come in. I also bought new glass tops. Hope both of these improve my lighting. My tank has all fake plastic decorations (to ease in removing fish) so its not all that impressive looking right now but I dont mind including a full tank shot next update.

@eoconnor - It is hard to say what will and what will not work but your stocklist sounds like a good start to me. Combined esparzar1 and myself have most of those fish in our all male tanks.

Are you going to order sexed adults or get a few juvies for each species?


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

eoconnor said:


> It seems a lot of people keep Dems and Hara together, mine are already in groups together but I was planning on weeding the dominant males soon.
> 
> I wouldn't mix a dem with a saluosi or something like that though...*and a maingano would probably fight with the polit?*


If they're already used to being around eachother you should be good to go!

I've never kept maingano so I dunno about the fighting. I loved the polit in my tank, he only fought with my msobo when I had him, he died about 3 months ago  . I'm thinking about either adding a white top or Polit in the future. Both of them will be good to give some color in any tank!


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

Well for the yellow lab, hara, and demasoni I'll be able to pull a mature male out of my current stock, and I've got an Acei Ngara male hanging with my haps right now that i could grab. Other than that I'll probably just go the 'boss of the LFS tank' method, just take the largest most colored juvie from the stores tank for Polit, Hongi, Msobo, Callainos, Greshaki, Flavus, Socolofi....and keep them in a quarantine until I can vent them accurately (well for the monomorphs)


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I have a few pictures and updates of my all male 55g mbuna tank.

The most exciting thing has to be my msobo. Over the last two months his transformation has been amazing. Here is a before and after. (~2 months and a few weeks between pictures).

BEFORE









AFTER










Yes that is the same fish and only two months...crazy......

Here is a pic of my hara. He is about half way showing his true colors in the picture. When he really shows off he gets much lighter and his bars are much darker.


























In the one picture above you can see my hara with my hongi. Thats the hongi's non aggressive dress. Here is a few pics of him showing off.


















Also PChap requested a full tank shot. Bad picture but you get the idea.










A few side notes about full tank shot- Notice the color of the hara (far right above rusty). This is how he is colored the majority of the time. When he shows off his transformation is pretty extreme. Sometimes he goes into the decoration looking dark blue and comes out in full dress. Also you can see my jumbo saulosi in the middle of tank. He's about 4 years old and is right at 4" long. I need to measure him to see for sure. Maybe a record (j/k). He never show his colors anymore though and is the lowest in command in the tank. Too bad....Hopefully one day he will get some confidence and start showing off again. He was a beautiful fish.

Thanks for looking.


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## PChap (Mar 6, 2007)

Nice full tank shot. I really like what you have done with it. Your tank is really motivating me. I've got the cash set aside for a tank that will be all male mbuna, but haven't had good ones come across Craigslist in the last couple of weeks.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Thank you. I'm really enjoying the fish I have in there. I wanted to add in another fish or two but I dont want to rock the boat. Last time I added a fish it was a perlmutt and the hongi and fuelleborni almost killed him. They seem to be happy with each other and I am too so I think I will just let it ride.

On a side note there is one C. axelrodi still in the tank. That fish is really small and I'm not sure of the sex of that fish yet. I had two of them but about 2 weeks ago I noticed alot of the fish were fighting and acting odd (more the normal small fight here and there). I've seen the same behavior before and knew right away there was a female in the tank. Within a couple days the larger of the two axelrodi was holding. So i took her out and put her in the all female tank I set up for my parents.

The next update will include a pic of the axelrodi (if its a male).


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

Nice looking tank. I also have an all male tank. I'll update once I'm done redecorating and stocking it. I live on the edge when it comes to this, so my mix will be a little more "dynamic". lol


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

Your Hongi looks amazing :thumb: and the msobo is amazong as well!!!!!your tank looks great as also!!!! We should start an all-male mbuna thread for the folks to post pics and look at eachothers tank/fish!!!!! opcorn:


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

Bump......

So, don't mean to "highjack" the thread but wanted to give an update on my tank. I added a Cyno. Afra "likoma" red top. He gets along great in the tank! Only about 1.5 inches but I just had to get him. Has really nice color as well, doesn't show off his bars that much due to the bigger fish but I already love the little guy! No one even pays attention to him. Of course it will probably be different once he's full grown....lol....Still looking at adding two more species. Looking at the Troph. Red cheek and some type of elongatus variant. Here's a pic of the little guy!


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

RRasco said:


> I'm converting my 55g mbuna to an all male shortly as well. It's mainly various males as is, but I do have breeding groups of hara (4) and acei (3) in there, but they are moving to breeding tanks in the next few weeks. I thought I was alone in the all male mbuna land. Was pretty sure somebody else had or was doing it, but I never heard it mentioned. Good to know there has been previous success!


Isn't it kind of like the Soprano's underwater? Colorful and violent characters all plotting how they will take over, and kill off the competition, just when the right time comes?  Even my peas and haps can be little devils, so I know it's got to be hard to manage all male Mbuna tanks.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

@esparzar1- Nice choice! Looks like he is going to have some nice color when he grows up.

@vann59- Its definitly tricky and always a work in progress. I dont think all male mbuna is for everone (especially in a 55g) but for me it was the best choice and I'm loving it. I will say I'm glad I also have a freshwater tropical tank. Its a nice balance having a peaceful tank and aggressive tank.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Well its been about 1 year and 3 or 4 months since I set up the tank. Thought I would give a quick update.

Last week I found my hongi torn to shreads. He is in the hospital tank right now. Not sure if he is going to make it but I hope so. Not sure who did it or why but just goes to show this can happen at anytime with an all male tank.

Another update. My afra hasn't grown much and never shows its colors. I'm pretty sure its either a female or the most sub dominate fish in the tank.

My msobo is looking amazing. I love that fish.

I'm not going to add anymore fish to my tank and i'm not going to add the hongi back if he lives. I'll see how they do with 7 fish. If it turns out my afra is female then I might pick my 3 favorite fish and go back to harem set-up but I want to atleast keep this tank up for 2 years total.

Next update will include pictures. I'm going to borrow a really nice digital camera so i can get some good pics.


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## redbull7940 (Aug 27, 2012)

GaFishMan are you local in the Atlanta Area? If so where do you get your fish from?


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

No I live about 3.5 hours south. I bought all my fish online. Most came from <vendor name removed>.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

UPDATE

Well its been a while since I've updated this topic. I'm down to 5 fish in the 55g and 1 in the 20g. The five fish I have left are the fuelleborni, saulosi, acei, rusty, and the hara. The one fish in the 20g is a hongi but I never tried to reintroduce him back to the main tank after he got beat up.

I've decided i'm going to change the setup. I could add more fish but instead I'm going to get rid of the ones I have left. They really need a 125g tank with alot more mbuna. So if anyone has a tank like this and wants to adopt my fish (yes that means free) please PM me. I will only give them to a member who has a larger tank and already has the tank setup and suitable for these fish. No I will not ship them so you need to live close to Savannah Ga.

Its been fun messing with the mbuna but if i ever did a mbuna tank again it would be 125g and harem setup.


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

Clearly they can break your heart. Where are you going next with your 55?


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I'm going back to what I started with almost 20 years ago when I got into the hobby. Freshwater tropical community fish. Pretty much a complete 180 from African Cichlids.


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## cich2it (Jul 23, 2012)

Hi just wanted to say enjoyed your pictures, ..I started with cichlids, and tried rustys, p.aceis, and yellow labs, loved them, then had too many fry to deal with, so I gave away, (most were purchased on line), then trying community fish, in my 60 gallon....they are okayyyy but I miss the cichlids, so I am going in opposite direction of you and want to get back to cichlids, but on a smaller scale...
anyway good luck on selling and giving away your cichlids, they are beautiful...and what type of community are you going into again?? opcorn:


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