# Looks like I did get a female Yellow lab and holding, HELP



## iluvmud (Jan 2, 2017)

Hey guys, so I have another thread in here and it looks like it got moved out of the African section since I asked about specific fish and that thread is now dead since being moved (DJRansom help!! lol)

Anyways I have been trying to follow DJ's advice the best I can and it looks like I was able to score 2 out of 3 females in my last batch of Yellow labs and now it looks like one is holding.... I think she is... you be the judge!



With the Dad



Anyways, I noticed a few days back the dad was doing his dance, but I have seen my Blue Acei do this dance to each other as well and read that it was to show dominance. but is it just dominance?

Anyways back to the Labs, there are holes all over my tank so something worked for him cause it looks like she is holding.... so now some questions

most importantly, should I even bother keeping them?

If I do, when do I need to move her to the little fry box to spit them out? I read she can hold them for up to 40 days......... but then the more I read the more confused I get, to my understanding and please correct me if I am wrong, she holds the fertilized eggs in her mouth..... then once they hatch she will spit them out but then take them back in her mouth to protect them for a set amount of time is this correct? If so then what are the timelines i should be looking for? (I just noticed today that her mouth was full, didnt really notice it yesterday)

And do they have a special diet or just finely ground up flakes ok?

Anything else I need to know?

Thanks in advance,
MUD


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What is the current stock of your tank? If you have a mix that has a risk of hybrids you may not want to save fry.

I would not use a fry box...better in a separate 10G or 20G tank if you want to raise them to selling size. Ground flakes are fine.

The fry box in the adult tank ends up with the fry being eaten by the adults right through the mesh.

The mom should go in the maternity tank 18 days after she starts holding. Then you want to remove her within 24 hours of when she spits the abies.


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## iluvmud (Jan 2, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> What is the current stock of your tank? If you have a mix that has a risk of hybrids you may not want to save fry.
> 
> I would not use a fry box...better in a separate 10G or 20G tank if you want to raise them to selling size. Ground flakes are fine.
> 
> ...


3 Yellow Labs, 2 M Aceis (maybe 1M 1F as the larger one keeps trying to court the other), and 4 Protomelas Steveni Taiwan 1M 3F

and that one Metriaclima estherae in the 46G tank with a 2.5" tiger pleco. which sounds like in a couple of weeks he'll make his move back to the 75G tank or I'll buy a divider for the fry in the 46G the fry basket I have is the plastic type though not the net one.... not sure it makes a difference.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

If you only had Labs and the Aceis in the tank at the time of breeding, then it is "likely" labs fry she is holding--assuming that the Labs are pure in the first place.
It is unlikely the Acei will breed with the Labs, and more likely that the Estherae will hybrid with them.

Me-----If I want to keep the fry, I usually remove the female about 3 weeks after I see her holding, and then wait for her to spit. A day or 2 after she spits, I put her back into the main tank. I always raise fry in a separate tank. Dividers and breeding baskets do not work. I feed the fry crushed adult pellets (I have a mortar and pestle). I do not have any flake food (well, I do have spirulina flakes, but only feed it once in a while).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't find dividers effective for fry...either the fry or the other fish somehow get over, around or through. Also unless I have heaters and filters on both sides of the divider I feel one side get's kind of stagnant. In the end is just seems more practical to skip the batch of fry if I am not set up for them, or bite the bullet and set up a 20G with established filter and heater.


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## iluvmud (Jan 2, 2017)

Well quick update... I moved momma fish to my 46g tank ( few days ago) as I got rid of the aggressive fish and now only have a 2" tiger plecos in there and the momma. Not sure when she'll spit them out, but during the move when I put her in the bowl to transfer over she bumped the bottom and spit one out... never took him back in either. I only know this cause as I was cleaning the tank and moving some deco around I saw him swimming along my driftwood. So that tells me that they should be ready to be spat up.... I guess I worry about her eating them up now. How long should I wait for her to spit them up normally and how long will she be ok to hang in there while once spat out???

Thanks again, mud


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Your 28 days will be April 13 and 50% of all moms hold longer. So I would not worry until May unless she looks extremely skinny already. From her pic above I don't think you have to worry about her not eating.

My moms seem to try to hold the babies even after they are ready (like yours) but I've never had one starve or even become too skinny before they spit. I'll bet she is just about right on time at 28 days.


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## iluvmud (Jan 2, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Your 28 days will be April 13 and 50% of all moms hold longer. So I would not worry until May unless she looks extremely skinny already. From her pic above I don't think you have to worry about her not eating.
> 
> My moms seem to try to hold the babies even after they are ready (like yours) but I've never had one starve or even become too skinny before they spit. I'll bet she is just about right on time at 28 days.


Thanks bud, new question all of the sudden within the last two days she has been acting erratic swimming against the glass on all sides randomly swimming semi sideways... like she is being stressed out. I checked the water parameters and no nitrite/amonia and the nitrates are good as well (5ppm).

I wonder if it is because she is simply all alone in there by herself with a tiger pleco that never comes out...... only at night.

Any suggestions?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Mine do that because they are both afraid to spit and frantic to spit. You should have babies within a week.


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## iluvmud (Jan 2, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Mine do that because they are both afraid to spit and frantic to spit. You should have babies within a week.


awesome thanks... and to confirm, it is ok to leave them all in a 46G tank after I remove the mother after a couple of days after spitting?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There is only one mom and one mouthful of babies, right?

I would remove the tiger pleco only because IDK if they eat fry. He may also be freaking out the mom.

Yes you should be able to raise 20 yellow lab fry to 1.5" size in a 46G.

I would remove the mom within 24 hours after she spits.


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## iluvmud (Jan 2, 2017)

Well, you were right. Get back from working and she is swimming around..... without a bloated mouth!! i had to look but it looks like there's at least 22 little guys swimming around in there....

how often should I feed these guys and I read that more frequent water changes will help them grow faster, is this true??


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Feed 4X daily and daily PWC.


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## iluvmud (Jan 2, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Feed 4X daily and daily PWC.


% on the pwc? And I need to vacuum the bottom I cleaned the tank after the pleco cleaned all the white algae off the driftwood then the next day the floor was covered in ****... after that one it can just be changing water and not cleaning? Scared I'm going to suck these little guys up.....and as for the food just teeny portions ground as fine as possible?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

50% water change. Yes...some people say you have to vacuum after each feeding. You siphon into a bucket and check the bucket for fry before you empty it.

Ground up adult food is OK for fry. They also make fry food like New Life Spectrum Grow sinking pellets.


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## iluvmud (Jan 2, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> 50% water change. Yes...some people say you have to vacuum after each feeding. You siphon into a bucket and check the bucket for fry before you empty it.
> 
> Ground up adult food is OK for fry. They also make fry food like New Life Spectrum Grow sinking pellets.


hey bud, thanks a ton for the help!!! lost one... little guy was laying on the driftwood....... luckily i needed to clean tank so problem solved!!


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## iluvmud (Jan 2, 2017)

Well this is interesting........ looks like about to weeks after I put her back in the tank....... she's holding again!!! And now he's trying to get the other yellow in the fish sack too..... this guy.

Now with all this being said, since she is holding and not eating is it safe/ok to move her to the fry tank now?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Why?

She is safe in the main tank (if you have enough females) and if you want to collect this second brood as well, you need a new tank anyway.

She will not feel safe to spit the babies with the other juveniles in the tank. And as soon as she does the bigger babies will eat the new babies.

What will you do with 40 labs? Did you decide they are pure?


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## iluvmud (Jan 2, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Why?
> 
> She is safe in the main tank (if you have enough females) and if you want to collect this second brood as well, you need a new tank anyway.
> 
> ...


Hard to tell, at 1st the mom was a bright yellow, then after having the babies she looks like a more goldfish yellowso I fear she might be a hybrid.... it also appears the male is successfully mating with the other lab and she is a nice bright yellow too....

I was thinking of just picking up a 5.5 gal tank as a newborn tank and have the 45 as a half way house for the growing fry. As far as keeping them I don't think I wanted more than a couple of females and the rest I'd sell for a buck or two a piece or something.

Edit** googled images and it looks like her color is similar to some shown online as well so looks like they're pure


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd use a 10G for the maternity tanks and new fry and then a 20G Long tank to grow each batch of 20 to 2" which is big enough to sell or put in the main tank.

Not sure you can tell pure species by comparing to Google photos, but you could post a profile closeup of Mom and Dad in the Unidentified forum for opinions.

I would not sell them or give them away unless they are pure.


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## iluvmud (Jan 2, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> I'd use a 10G for the maternity tanks and new fry and then a 20G Long tank to grow each batch of 20 to 2" which is big enough to sell or put in the main tank.
> 
> Not sure you can tell pure species by comparing to Google photos, but you could post a profile closeup of Mom and Dad in the Unidentified forum for opinions.
> 
> I would not sell them or give them away unless they are pure.


youre killing me smalls!!!!!!! let me see what I can do... the 10G should have no gravel or sand to make it easier for them to find food right?

Also, I have posted pics in the sections as directed.

Thanks again bud!


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