# Crassus spawns..



## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

I've got an apparently mated pair of Neo. Crassus Moliro bluefin in my 20-long tang. tank, and they just laid about 35-40 eggs. They beat the 3rd member of the species like you wouldn't believe. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone feels its possible to raise young in this community (with 2 Phylonemus typus and 2 Eretmodus cyanostictus). I am doubtful to begin with because of the catfish, but if anyone has any feeding tips or any kind of advice, it would be much appreciated!.
Thanks


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## the_evil_dickfeldi (Feb 17, 2006)

Congrats on spawning crassus! They are my FAVORITE brichardiine cichlid.

But, IMO, TBH, I don't know where to start to answer your question. Maybe you could remove the catfish or put the crassus into a different tank?


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

In my tanks, gobies are avid fry predators and syno cats eat all the eggs. So, no. I wouldn't suspect that many eggs will make it full term, and any fry that hatches will have to be quick to avoid being snacked on. I haven't kept crassus, so I could be wrong!

Congrats on the spawn! :thumb:


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## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

the issue here is that im in a dorm room with an RA that would bust me if i put another tank in here. I want to get some survivors, but all i ever hear about phylonemus is that they are big time fry eaters. Maybe I'll just put the eggs in a net inside the tank or something.


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

No way with the typus in there. They will eat anything that can fit into their mouths. I've seen them eat a full grown female guppy.


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## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

just thought id keep you updated. about 25-30 of them have reached the free-swimming stage, and it seems like the power filter is the biggest threat to them at the present time. The parents are being extremely attentive, one not even leaving the burrow to feed, i have to feed it with a turkey baster. One phyllonemus never leaves a conch shell that is in the tank, and the other seems to keep to himself on the other side of the tank. The crassus that got beat up by the parents also never leaves the conch shell, and the eretmodus, although extremely active, don't seem to be showing much interest in the babies. Wish me luck!


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## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

So all the babies were, as expected, eaten. But over the weekend while I wasn't home, there was another spawn. I'm uncertain, but it almost appears like the male may have spawned with two different females, because there are two swarms of young, both with about 25-30 babies. That seems like a lot of eggs to have come from one female, doesn't it? Just about every fish in the tank seems to have been taught a lesson as to who occupies the middle of the tank, and one parent seems to be controlling the entire tank. Of course, that may all change when the lights go out. Solution: leave the lights on. Alternatively, I might scoop up as many babies as possible and keep them in a large net for a few weeks until they are stronger swimmers. Again, wish me luck!


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## ubergoober (Mar 21, 2006)

Good Luck!!


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## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

so its been about two weeks, and my estimated losses are probably 10-15 fry, with around 40 remaining in the tank. One of the typus was killed in the parents efforts to protect the fry, which is probably one of the big reasons why the survival rate has been so high. The tank's getting pretty green because I've been leaving the lights on 24 hours a day, but that has contributed to their survival as well, I believe. In addition, whatever weird hairy stuff is growing on the rocks probably houses some food for the fry, as I dont really have the means to hatch brine or any other small live foods for them. The smallest food I've been feeding has been ground aquadine, and they seem to be faring well. Aside from the typus loss, so far so good!!


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Fish can die from sleep deprivation. I'm not joking. They do need sleep. :zz: I had a basement bedroom that was slightly creepy, and managed to kill off my tank after using it as a nightlight for a couple months.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2666531.ece
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1424

I'm glad it's saving your fry, but is leaving the light a poor fix for removing the typus?


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

Wow, great link triscuit. i do turn off my lights but i never knew too much light exposure can kill them. just take the fishes i or move them to a 15G. will be alot more comfortable for all the fishes in your tank.


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## YoungAquaticPhotos (Aug 24, 2006)

I have 6 of them and can't wait for them to breed! Two have paired off and chase everyone else like there is fry but when I pick up the rocks no fry yet.


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

The spawning is great. However, shouldn't a 20 gallon long be a single species tank for a breeding pair of any fish from the brichardi-complex? That would go the same for nearly any Julie or non- shellie lamp. Why but the fish throught the stress, and death(s) as in this case? One way or another you will end up removing all the extra fish. The only question will be if they are alive or dead when you do it.


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

i second that.
just taking out the extra fish will help out in both cases.
your crassus and the extra fish will both benifet frolm that. 
losing fish=sad.
fry=happy.
surviving fry=happy parents and you.


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## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

I appreciate the links and stuff, and I am aware of the risk, but if you read my initial entries, I am unable to put the fish anywhere else as there are rules in my dorm not only on size of aquariums kept, but on quantities as well. I've tried to work my way around it, but things don't always work out the way you want them to. I am aware that it is not intelligent to leave the lights out all the time, I hear stories like this all the time at the lfs I work at at home. Also, I realize its kind of inhumane to potentially sacrifice other fishes' lives for the sake of the fry. However, its a bit inhumane either way, I think. I will be going home in one week where I have dozens of aquariums to raise the fry, allow the parents to recooperate, and let the rest of the tankmates recover their nipped fins. Yes, a 20-long should be a pair only tank for breeding brichardine cichlids, but this was meant to be a nice tanganyikan community when I started school, as I was starting to miss my display aquariums at home. I usually let nature take its course with breeding, and end up with a few survivors, but since I have never bred crassus before, I wanted to get a good turnout rate. I don't think one more week of the lights being on will kill my fish, particularly with how many caves there are(and large shells that are completely dark). My fish must be getting some sleep somewhere, although certainly not enough. I know that what I'm doing here is probably not the best way to go about things, but I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

why dont you bring the extra fish to your house??
put them somewhere that they wont get killed.


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## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

Like I said, the fish will only have to endure another week of this until I go home for Christmas. I live 2 hours away and do not have a car. I am fairly confident that my fish will be able to make it through this, and my aquarium is right next to my desk where I will be studying for finals of this week, so as per the advice given, I will be turning the lights off while I am at my desk so I can check periodically on the goings on. Your suggestion seems like such a simple solution, and really, it is, but there are some major barriers keeping me from it, trust me. I care for my fish, and would not put them through this if I did not have to.


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## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

Okay, so the fish are home.. safe and sound. I lost a few babies in the 2 hour trip, but all the adults have survived and the lights are only on in both tanks that I am housing the fish in for about 5 hours a day, so they can catch up on some much needed sleep. I will return them to a normal day cycle within the next few days. The fry are growing at a decent rate, although some are still small. The average is probably 3/8", with the smallest being about 1/4" and the largest being about 1/2".


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## ashilli48 (May 14, 2006)

You know sometimes we all do unorthodox stuff in the keeping of our fish. Sometimes we even push the limits, i.e. too long before a water change or food, etc. Life happens. Ultimately you are involved in an awesome hobby and doing what you love. You are also very brave for posting what you are doing good, bad or ugly. Unethical or unwise may be in the eye of the beholder. Just think how many people outside of the hobby think the whole lot of us are abusing fish by keeping them in "boxes or water". Keep us posted on your fry progress.


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## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

Thanks for the encouragement ashilli. The fry are becoming quite self-sufficient, eating slightly crumbled aquadine pretty well. Unfortunately, it seems as if the trip home has broken the pair bond between the two adult crassus on top of killing a few of the fry. Hopefully they'll pair off once again, and I'll be able to raise some more fry.


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## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

So, I am back at school, without the fry. I didn't think another 2-hour trip would be beneficial to their health, so I left that tank at home and brought a tank with a group of pseudocrenilabrus nicholsi (west african, different forum), which have been spawning on and off. Anyway, the fry are all >1/2 inch now, and are eating anything and everything that I offer them. Looks like I've got a total of about 35 which should grow up to be healthy adults. I'd like to get them out of the tank as soon as possible so I can try to get the parents to resume spawning. They have been quite inactive since going home. Hopefully I can move them next time I am able to get home to do maintenance. Until then, I will rely on the family to feed them heavily and maybe do a partial water change here and there. Things seem to be going well!


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## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

The young are just about ready to be split up! Half to my main tank and half to a friend's local retail store. And more spawning will ensue I hope. They are becoming very blue-eyed and -finned. Growing up to be nice looking fish!


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## fishoverlivingspace (Jul 21, 2007)

So, I'm going home in about 3 1/2 weeks when the semester is over, and I'll be splitting the young up, but now I've got new news. My dad e-mailed me this morning and said that the parents have spawned again, and there are 45 new fry in the tank. I'm excited, but I have a question to anyone who has bred crassus in the past. In your experience, in this species, do the older siblings tend to assist in the brooding of new fry, do they present a threat to the new fry, or are they a neutral party in all this? The average fish is around 2/3" by now and they are about 5 months old now. Thanks, in advance, for any tips.


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