# Phosphates in the water



## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

I need some opinions here everyone, I have figured out that there are a high concentration of Phosphates coming from the City supply. I bought a digital tester and measured it. Results are .140 ppm right off the bat. (should be under .050 ppm),Now there a few remedies that I can go with. Phosphate Reactor with the proper media, Chemi pure elite, an RO unit but this one might be a hassle and not really cost effective once you factor in all the media and minerals I would have to put back in the water to correct what is missing. Not sure if I'm missing anything but need opinions on how to remedy this problem.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

Do you buffer the water? Water buffers contain phosphates. I think since your tap water contains phosphate the only solution would be an RO unit. Phosphates, IMO, won't harm your fish unless very high concentrations. They do however feed algae. You could use removal filter media but if you are using the same tap water......


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

Yes i do buffer the water with the cichlid recipe,baking soda,Epsom salt And Non Iodized salt.Water parameters are pretty good if not perfect.I've tried the phosphate removal media before with decent results. I'm liking the Phosphate Reactor for whatever reason,lol. The RO unit will work for sure but the water will be too pure,i would have to add the buffer which i add now and also some type of minerals to replenish what's missing if i'm not wrong. Just thinking that the RO unit will be a little over kill and a lot more work to keep my water stable.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

Well adding the buffer to RO water will add phosphates. You wouldn't have the added tap water % though. Whenever water needs to be adjusted it's a hassel and more work. No way around that. :fish:


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

OK let's assume i get the RO unit. Pure water right no Phosphates or anything,now add the buffer I'm sure the phosphates will probably be low,once i start with the regular feedings the phosphates will start to rise again,so then how do i control them?? Would the Phosphate reactor be my golden helper there.Everyone uses them on their salt Tanks with an RO unit.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

With an RO unit you still have TDS (trace dissolved solids). It's when you add a DI cartridge that all the TDS is filterd.
As far as buffering goes. IMO unless you get your fish from the wild you don't have to match the fishes regonal water params.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

So go with with RO unit then.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

You can always try to add Seachem's Phosguard Phosphate removal media as a supplement with the RO system, if possible. I was quite over 10ppm with phosphates just recently and I added the Phosguard to the system and now I am measuring under .5ppm after a week. The algae that I had an issue with is starting to go away and the water is staying within the parameters I like. The nitrate readings aren't high either so I don't have any idea where all the phosphates came from recently. A LFS manager told me that we had some recent large amounts of rains and that the reservoirs get inundated with 'fertilizers' that seep into the water shed and raise the phosphate levels in the tap waters. She said that this might be a reason for me getting a higher level of phosphates even as I had just done a water change at this time frame. Never had an issue with phosphates before but the Seachem product worked like a charm! Just a FYI for you.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

Brentt700 said:


> You can always try to add Seachem's Phosguard Phosphate removal media as a supplement with the RO system, if possible. I was quite over 10ppm with phosphates just recently and I added the Phosguard to the system and now I am measuring under .5ppm after a week. The algae that I had an issue with is starting to go away and the water is staying within the parameters I like. The nitrate readings aren't high either so I don't have any idea where all the phosphates came from recently. A LFS manager told me that we had some recent large amounts of rains and that the reservoirs get inundated with 'fertilizers' that seep into the water shed and raise the phosphate levels in the tap waters. She said that this might be a reason for me getting a higher level of phosphates even as I had just done a water change at this time frame. Never had an issue with phosphates before but the Seachem product worked like a charm! Just a FYI for you.


Thanks for the input,ever thought of using a Phosphate Reactor instead of the media? are you sure it's .500 or .050 because .500 you are way too high. This will start a bloom of algae. At .190 which is almost 4x's the level we need i have problems with algae.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

johnnyblade said:


> So go with with RO unit then.


I'm not making that decision for you. Look into phosphate removal on other sites and decide for yourself. I pull my water right from a deep well at my house and quite frankly if my fish did'nt like it I would not have fish. I'm saying if I had to do extra work in maintaining water......might as well go marine. :dancing:


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

I don't think it's as high as you are saying. It reads .5.....not .50 or .500. I believe it is very low. It states on the test kit that you want to be that or under that to be within acceptable limits, so I don't think it's as high as you are thinking. The highest on the chart is 20. and I was approaching that color when I decided to take action with a water change again and to add the Seachem Phosguard product, and so far it has really worked well.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

smitty814 said:


> johnnyblade said:
> 
> 
> > So go with with RO unit then.
> ...


I understand what you're saying.I enjoy taking care of them and looking for better ways to improve their habitat. I've read so much i'm confused on making a simple decision. As for the marine set-up not just yet, once i figured how to make this fresh water the way i like it then we will see. As for my Phosphate problem i'll keep a few options open and hopefully figure what to use.I'm surprised that not many people have the same problem as myself.


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## austings (May 12, 2012)

I have the same problem. I have tried media that is supposed to remove phosphates, but I havent had much luck. I have thought about buying a RO unit, but I havent yet.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

Austings......what type of media did you use to get rid of your phosphates? There are quite a few different brands out there and I chose to use Seachem as I have ALWAYS had superb luck with them. My phosphate reading was at the top of the chart when I tested it and within a week, it is pretty much at the lowest point on the test chart now. Owing it all to the Seachem Phosguard. I could have used a host of different ones but I have had immense results with their Matrix and Denitrate as well as equal results with their Purigen as well. I know I have tried a LOT of different brands that were mediocre and worked somewhat but didn't really make a dent in anything. I would try the Seachem product before giving up or going to an RO unit.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

Brentt700 said:


> I don't think it's as high as you are saying. It reads .5.....not .50 or .500. I believe it is very low. It states on the test kit that you want to be that or under that to be within acceptable limits, so I don't think it's as high as you are thinking. The highest on the chart is 20. and I was approaching that color when I decided to take action with a water change again and to add the Seachem Phosguard product, and so far it has really worked well.


Hey brent my readings are as follows .210 ppm on one tank and .410 on another,so you're saying i'm still relatively low.When test results show levels of 1.0 ppm (or 1.0 mg/L), the conditions become favorable for algae growth to start. At 2 to 3 ppm, algae overgrowth is likely to occur. Ideal phosphate levels are 0.05 ppm, or less. So i consider mine getting there.Funny thing is once i keep the lights on for 5 hours or more my rocks get covered with brown algae.I have the lights on now only for 2 hours a night and no algae.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

Maybe I am wrong and where I am at is actually .05 on my readings right now. Now I want to go home and look at the color chart and see what the numbers are. LOL! All's I know is by the directions......I am in the "safe" zone according to the color chart.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

Funny you mention about turning your lights off. I used to do that sometimes and just use the daylight coming through the closed blinds to light up the tank. I think back then I had some aggression issues between my Greshakei and my Parallelus and wanted them to mellow out a little until they both settled into their own territories......which they did. Now, I can leave the lights on all day without any incidents whatsoever. All my fish have their own spots in the tank and they all get along superbly now. But I also noticed NO algae when I did this, too. LOL!


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

If you're at .05 ppm your water is in the safe zone.Are you using phosphate media right now?


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

Yes. Using Seachem's Phosguard inside one of my Fluval 205's.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

So you place it in a media bag right? How long does it last before changing it out.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

I used two of the smaller pre-bagged units that fit right in one of the 205's baskets just perfectly. I really don't know how long they last but here is a paste off of their website..................

For best results, PhosGuard™ should be placed so as to maximize the flow of water through it. It may be used in a canister filter, box filter, or any high flow area of a trickle filter. In some situations it may be necessary to use in a filter bag. Use 250 mL (~1 cup) for every 300 L (75 gallons*). Leave product in place for 4 days, then test phosphate or silicate concentrations with either MultiTest: Phosphate™ or MultiTest: Silicate™. If the concentration of the component you are trying to decrease has not dropped to around 0.02 mg/L, then replace the PhosGuard™, otherwise leave in place until levels begin to climb again. As long as concentrations remain under control, the product is not exhausted. Each 500 mL of PhosGuard™ treats over 600 L (150 gallons*) (i.e. will remove up to 30 mg/L phosphate in 600 L (150 gallons*) of water, depending on the initial phosphate/silicate concentrations and the current biological load. Over treating is not recommended. PhosGuard™ is not an exchange resin, it does not release anything into the water. It does not leach phosphate or silicate back into the water and may be removed, dried, and returned to service until exhausted. Continuous use of small quantities is better than intermittent use of larger quantities.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

Rapidly removes phosphate and silicate from marine and freshwater aquaria
Highly porous for high capacity and bead shaped for optimum water flow
Outperforms all competing products
Not recommended for phosphate based buffers in freshwater aquaria---- WHAT do they mean by this-----
250 milliliters easily treats over 75 US gallons


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

johnnyblade said:


> Rapidly removes phosphate and silicate from marine and freshwater aquaria
> Highly porous for high capacity and bead shaped for optimum water flow
> Outperforms all competing products
> Not recommended for phosphate based buffers in freshwater aquaria---- WHAT do they mean by this-----
> 250 milliliters easily treats over 75 US gallons


They mean that most buffers are phosphate based. :? That's why I recommend an RO unit.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

Hey Smitty......I am using Carib Sea Florida Crushed Coral mixed in with my gravel. Have been since the start of my tank two years ago. This may sound like a stupid question but this is a buffer, isn't it?? I don't think that it is a phosphate based buffer though. I believe it is a coral based buffer. Correct me if I am wrong here.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

Brentt700 said:


> Hey Smitty......I am using Carib Sea Florida Crushed Coral mixed in with my gravel. Have been since the start of my tank two years ago. This may sound like a stupid question but this is a buffer, isn't it?? I don't think that it is a phosphate based buffer though. I believe it is a coral based buffer. Correct me if I am wrong here.


I never said that ALL buffers were phosphate based. Crushed coral substrate may contain serious amounts of phosphates however.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

smitty814 said:


> Brentt700 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Smitty......I am using Carib Sea Florida Crushed Coral mixed in with my gravel. Have been since the start of my tank two years ago. This may sound like a stupid question but this is a buffer, isn't it?? I don't think that it is a phosphate based buffer though. I believe it is a coral based buffer. Correct me if I am wrong here.
> ...


That's what i'm using in my second tank Florida crushed coral,maybe it explains the phosphates are bit higher than my other tank that has sand.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

Now I am VERY curious. Does anyone here know this???? If using crushed coral mixed with gravel for a substrate would cause a rise in phosphates due to the coral? I never checked it without as I started with the stuff to keep the PH at a higher level. I almost want to start a new thread asking about this so people can see it more clearly. LOL! If Smitty is right.....that would explain a lot in ways. But why did I have a sudden purplish algae outbreak just lately though and right after a water change?? I did nothing different than normal. It's going away now that I am using Algaway and using Seachem Phosguard.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

Brentt700 said:


> Now I am VERY curious. Does anyone here know this???? If using crushed coral mixed with gravel for a substrate would cause a rise in phosphates due to the coral? I never checked it without as I started with the stuff to keep the PH at a higher level. I almost want to start a new thread asking about this so people can see it more clearly. LOL! If Smitty is right.....that would explain a lot in ways. But why did I have a sudden purplish algae outbreak just lately though and right after a water change?? I did nothing different than normal. It's going away now that I am using Algaway and using Seachem Phosguard.


That could very well be a possibility,I compared both tanks and the one with crushed coral is almost twice the (ppm). Also emailed Seachem and asked about the Phosguard and they wrote back saying that if i have a phosphate based buffer the Phosguard would remove the buffer.So how the **** will i know if my buffer is a phosphate based one???? i use the cichlid recipe.Baking soda,Epsom salt And Non Iodized salt. This is becoming a little confusing here,all i wanted was to remove the phosphates.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

That is a good question. I am glad I don't use any salts or buffers in my tanks. Mainly for this reason right here. Plus the less @#$% you have to throw in the tank, I feel the better off things are. This is why I went with the coral mix for a substrate for raising the PH as it never needs to be changed and it just mixes in once with the gravel. No one told me about adding phosphates to the water if I did this, though, and I wish they would have if this is the case.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

Brentt700 said:


> That is a good question. I am glad I don't use any salts or buffers in my tanks. Mainly for this reason right here. Plus the less @#$% you have to throw in the tank, I feel the better off things are. This is why I went with the coral mix for a substrate for raising the PH as it never needs to be changed and it just mixes in once with the gravel. No one told me about adding phosphates to the water if I did this, though, and I wish they would have if this is the case.


If i'm not mistaken the crushed coral keeps the PH at a steady level,but most people who keep African cichlids need to buffer the water. My tap water is about 7.4 from the city. So how am supposed to keep it at 8.2 to 8.6 without buffering it?? and without the Phosguard taking away the buffer??


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

7.4 would be fine for most African cichlids. Like I said before....unless you are getting your fish directly from African lakes you don't need to copy the African water parameters. Pet stores certainly and even breeders aren't going to go through that kind of trouble.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

smitty814 said:


> 7.4 would be fine for most African cichlids. Like I said before....unless you are getting your fish directly from African lakes you don't need to copy the African water parameters. Pet stores certainly and even breeders aren't going to go through that kind of trouble.


I used to have the water at 7.4,then i decided i wanted to get a little more involved and do things that were closer to real life for them,so i starting reading how to get their water right so i did,and it's working fine but as we get more technical, things get a little more difficult to correct. Maybe i'm being too overly critical about things.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

I am running between 7.6 and 7.8 in my tank with the coral mixed with the gravel and they do just fine. I have a lone Pseudotropheus Elongatus I HAD to separate from the 75 gallon tank as he was getting relentlessly picked on by about four other fish and couldn't do anything but sit under a stump all day long and hide from everyone. So I moved him to his own 20 gallon tank. He is loving life now, digging like crazy and his colors are coming out like never before and the point I am making here is the PH in this tank is 7.4. So....you don't need to buffer as Smitty is dead on right. Pet stores aren't set up at 8.0 and above in almost every case. I am quite sure that breeders aren't either. So....the fish are used to lower PH values from the get-go.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

I agree with you guys that they will do well in lower PH levels,but i'm running higher PH levels now,so i might look at another brand of phosphate remover that will not suck the pre made buffer out.


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## austings (May 12, 2012)

If your PH is at 7.4, then their really is no reason to buffer at all. That simplicity would solve your problem as far as using a product to remove phosphate. A consistent KH and GH is more important than pH.

As said numerous times in this thread, Unless you have been buying wild caught fish, pH wont affect your fish in most cases.

Also, Brentt700, Do you work for Seachem, or are you a die hard Seachem product fan? Every post you make has something about Seachem, and almost always information pasted from their website.


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

hey guys just got my answer from Seachem direct.

Good morning John,

Unless there are extra additives in the baking soda you use, baking soda, or sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), the main buffering component in your additive should not contain phosphate. Thus it would be unaffected by the use of Phosguard. If you did use a phosphate buffering system, then the Phosguard could work counteractively and make the buffer unstable, resulting in pH swings.

I hope that this information helps. Have a nice day!

Product Support 100286

I think i'm going to be fine with whatever i use to bring down the phosphates.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

Austings......No I don't work at Seachem, but I am VERY ecstatic about their products as I have been doing this hobby since the late eighties and it always seems like you have a product that promises that it will do something, and then when you actually use it, it falls way short of what it was advertised as. Seachem is one of the first product lines where I have used multiple items of their products and EVERYTHING I have used did what it was supposed to do and then some! Of course I want to share my experiences with others online about it. If it has helped me with such amazing results.....why not tell others of my experiences with it in hopes that if others have issues similar to mine or issues that can be helped or solved by it. That is all. :fish:


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

Brentt700 said:


> Austings......No I don't work at Seachem, but I am VERY ecstatic about their products as I have been doing this hobby since the late eighties and it always seems like you have a product that promises that it will do something, and then when you actually use it, it falls way short of what it was advertised as. Seachem is one of the first product lines where I have used multiple items of their products and EVERYTHING I have used did what it was supposed to do and then some! Of course I want to share my experiences with others online about it. If it has helped me with such amazing results.....why not tell others of my experiences with it in hopes that if others have issues similar to mine or issues that can be helped or solved by it. That is all. :fish:


If the product is good why not tell everyone about it,that's how we all get informed. Talking about Seachem they were very quick to respond to my emails by the way as you can all see.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

Thanks for having an open mind and such a positive attitude, Johnnyblade! It's people like YOU who don't make me give up and throw in the proverbial towel on forums online. I sincerely hope that whatever you choose to do with your remedy for your issue with phosphates, that it works out for you in the end. That is all that matters!


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## johnnyblade (May 30, 2013)

Brentt700 said:


> Thanks for having an open mind and such a positive attitude, Johnnyblade! It's people like YOU who don't make me give up and throw in the proverbial towel on forums online. I sincerely hope that whatever you choose to do with your remedy for your issue with phosphates, that it works out for you in the end. That is all that matters!


Thanks Brentt,sometimes you have to let them have their say and take it with a grain of salt. About the Phosphates i'm probably going to go with the Reactor and load it up with the Seachem Phosguard. Later on down the line i will probably get a RO unit and then i'm complete.LOL. Thanks for the info and i'll see you guys on this forum. :thumb:


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## austings (May 12, 2012)

Brentt700 said:


> Thanks for having an open mind and such a positive attitude, Johnnyblade! It's people like YOU who don't make me give up and throw in the proverbial towel on forums online. I sincerely hope that whatever you choose to do with your remedy for your issue with phosphates, that it works out for you in the end. That is all that matters!


Whoa, Obviously that was partly directed towards me. I wasnt trying to attack you. Sorry if it came across that way. With that said, Brentt700, you will be happy to know, that I too use Seachem products, prime, purigen, ,matrix. And now, since you say that Phosguard works so well, I actually ordered some, and it will be here tomorrow.


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## Brentt700 (Mar 14, 2013)

That's okay, Austings. I am used to being "hassled" or seemingly laughed at because of my over-filtration on my tank so I guess I am overly defensive towards things sometimes. I didn't mean to attack you as well. I am glad you use Seachem's products as they are one of the first lines of products I have used in a very long time where everything I have bought from them does what it says it's supposed to do and then some. THAT makes me ecstatic and makes me want to share it with everyone else in hopes that they at least listen to what I try to say in hopes that maybe IF they have the smame "issues" as I have had that they might try using the product that solved my 'problems' so to speak.


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