# 30 gallon shell dweller (first Tang tank) some questions



## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

I've got a 30 gallon acrylic tank 36x13x15H. I got some lamprologus melagris "pearly occelatus" fry at an auction recently. they're under a half inch long and are currently in a 20 long eating and growing very well. This is my first tank tank, I've got quite a few malawi hap/peacock tanks and this would be my first venture into lake tanganyika. I'm going with pfs for substrate with sponge filtration. Here are my questions up to this point.

Shells - it seems most people are using escargot or whale-eye shells but we've got a pond nearby full of Japanese trap-door snails. My wife and daughters and I recently went on a collection hunt, gathered roughly 40 empty shells, cleaned them out and bleached them and rinsed them. Wondering if these would work.

















Numbers - I have 6 fry roughly the same size and was wondering with the footprint of my tank how many pairs/groups would i conceivably be able to keep, should i just go for one pair and get other species to fill the tank with? if so, what other species would be good with these, and what further 'scaping' should I look into providing for the other species? would dwarf altolamps work?

other 'lamprologus' species - my daughter really likes the gold occellatus but other than one time at the LFS, I haven't been able to find these. If I did happen to find them, would they work with the pearly occellatus...I thought I might be able to keep a pair of both the gold and the pearly.

That's all I can think of right now.....


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They might taper too gradually inside. Shellies tend to dart inside and can get stuck and die in there. That's why the whale eyes are good...the inside tapers to nothing almost immediately.

If you got two types of occies, they will crossbreed. Also two males might fight.

I'd do just the one species of shellies and either a pair of calvus or a pair of Julidochromis marlieri Gombe.

Or instead of the rockdwellers, you could do 6 paracyps with the shellies.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Me I find them OK. Not ideal but OK for real shellys. Stuff like Altolamps yep can get stuck.
Not that I have tried these ones myself but very similar free whelk shells in the UK.  
I was quite suprised when I got some real lake tang shells. They kind of taper very slowly just like marine shells. I guess stuff like escargot or whale eyes are even better than the stuff they are evolved to use.

All the best James


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

My LFS has several varieties of Cyprichromis but no Paracyprichormis....would the Cyps be ok to add to the tank to get some more movement/color?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Some say yes some say no.
I prefer to give Cyps 4 foot (about 48"x12"x12") of swimming space.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Other dimentions ok. Its the volume (swimming space) mainly for a very active (showling) 4" fish.
Yours would be very tight and may only work while they are young.
Dom male open water territory holder, could make life hard for the others and not realy room for two males to colour up well.

Thats the advantage of Paracyps, less active, smaller territories and so still do well in smaller groups in smaller tanks.

All the best James


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks James,
Guess we'll wait for some paracyp nigripinnis? 
Would the Juli pair work in addition to paracyps? or would it be an either or situation? Also, if I did get a Juli pair, would I put a rock pile on one end and a shell pile on the other?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Again its very tight. It has been known to work but its not easy to get it to. Even small Julies can be hard to pair in small tanks. I would prob try it but then can separate if it does not work out.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

My ocecllatus are fry yet, and the Juli. pair are adults.
Should I keep them in other tanks until the ocellatus are larger and have paired, then move both pairs into the 30 gallon at the same time? move one or the other first? or would I be better just waiting for some paracyps...the Juli's are pretty cool and I'd hate to miss the chance of getting an already established pair. I have another tank I can keep the Juli's in until the ocellatus get larger if need be.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

In that case grab them. Your right breeding pairs do not become available very often. At least not near me.  .
You could even use a tank devider at first so you get em breeding iether end before taking it out.
Many ways to try and get them together.
Might waite untill both have already given you all the young you want. Then mix.
Predation in mixed tanks being so high.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Must say I have had very different experiences with 'Lamprologus' stappersii/meleagris or Pearly Occie.
Some are very agressive and can easily stand up to Julies but can kill each other if you keep more than one male. (Even bite your hand)
Others are honeys and hardly able to look after themselves with dithers like guppies.
Its as if there is more than one type in the hobby here in the UK.

All the best James


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

4 of the six I have seem pretty feisty, way more feisty than I'm used to with my malawi hap juveniles. I don't have shells in the 20long they're quarantining/growing in but they've dug themselves little depressions in the sand and defend them from each other. The more timid two just sort of scoot around staying clear of the others


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

The more fiesty ones could well be the males. I find em hard to sex but never seem to get enough females.

All the best James


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

I picked up the Juli's, they're fun to watch, so mellow compared to my malawi haps and really mellow compared to the occelatus fry/juvies i have. I haven't gotten the 30 gallon set up yet for them as I need to build a stand and finals are in a week. Currently the Juli's are in with some juvenile haps and a 1.5" peacock in a 40long. The Ocellatus are in a 20Long. So far there are like a said 3 or 4 who dig little pits then flare to any passers-by, and 2 or 3 just swim around. interestingly, the 3 that do the most flaring all dig their pits within a couple of inches of eachother. There are no shells in that tank at this time, I was going to wait with the shells until I got the 30 gallon set up.

How will I know if a pair forms? and how big will they be typically when this happens?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

When a pair forms, the rejects will be forced to the top of the tank and possibly killed.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm limited to 36" in length, but, I have a 40 gallon breeder 36x18x16 I could use or I'm building a 36Wx24Dx12H tank out of some old broken tanks' glass. Would either of those tanks allow cyps instead of paracyps? I found a guy locally who has paracyps but availability looks like fall at best and patience is not really my thing.....


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I can not recomend Cyps in those tank sizes as it has not worked well for me long term.
But to be honest I have never tried it apart from growing on a few young.
36Wx24Dx12H has enough bottom space just woried the cyps would be crowded by the shellys as not enough depth for em to swim above unmolested.

All the best James


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd avoid the cyps unless I had a tank 48" or longer...and good point about the 12" height of the tank.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

So, I was able to acquire some more glass and the new dimensions of the planned tank will be 36x24x16H. We'll have 1 pair of Juli. marlieri, 'lamprologus' stappersi (pearly ocellatus), and Paracyp. nigripinnis.
I'm wondering how many pairs of 'lamprologus I could feasibly house in the tank and how many paracyps should I go with, I've found a local breeder so I should be able to get as many as desired.
I'm also wondering if the paracyps will swim around the tank like i'm hoping, or will they stick to the rocks like i've read in some places?

THanks,
Adam


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I would go for a smaller Julie (transcriptus or ornatus). Unless you are already going for the marlieri (Gombi) dwarf type.
Most J.marlieri get far to big and meen for a 30g community.

Pearly occies arg my bug bear species. Should be as easy as occies. Keep in pairs or a one male hareem (male plus bunch of females). But dunno I just fail with em recently. 

Yep I would try a bunch of Paracyps in a 36"x24"x16" say about 10 juveniles looking for an adult group of about 8. Lots of up top cover (caves overhangs) and no bright lights or yep they tend to be nervous and hide a lot.
They are always at the bottom of the pecking order in cichlid communitues and its kind of nice to get em happy very early.

All the best James


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Thank you, yeah they're the gombe type. I started a new thread with the other dimensions. (60 gallon).


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