# Lighting on a 20g Long



## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Hey everyone,

I have a 20g Long and I was wandering,
What is the best lighting for medium-high lighting that will not need CO2?
Would T8's work? 
Would T5HO work?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

All planted tanks need carbon... so all need CO2 or alternative source for carbon like liquid carbon supplements. If you go really high light for a prolonged period, then what (I think) you are worried about is the need to add CO2 gas to the tank from a generator or a pressurized tank.

My suggestion: you can always reduce your lighting by raising lights, leaving some off, etc. In your shoes, I would look into T5HO light fixtures that have more than one on/off switch. Invest in a good timer that will allow for multiple on/off durations per day and you can setup a great planted tank! :thumb:


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## londonloco (Mar 31, 2011)

Here's a link to Hoppy's lighting chart, scroll down until you get to the 2nd chart:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/light ... 12-pc.html

A 20g long is only 13" high, you'll have an algae farm before long if you go with a T5HO fixture, even with only one bulb. I have 3 planted 20g long tanks set up, all heavily planted, the T5NO fixtures are perfect for them. Plant growth is slow, but steady, algae is almost non existent. There are a few T5NO fixtures out there, pm me if you would like to know where to buy them.

T8's would work also, but I've found the bulbs need to be replaced every 6 months or so.

I also dose all my smaller planted tanks with Excel, which is liquid carbon. 2mL a day is all you will need, so a 500mL bottle lasts quite a long time on a 20g tank.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok so i decided T5HO it is! 
What plants will do GREAT with them?
I will have Serpea Tetra, Neon Tetra, Otocinclus catfish, and 1 pair of double red cockatoo cichlids.


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## Grumblecakes (Feb 20, 2011)

I would also consider how your fish will look with intense light. I had 5 14w cfls over mine 20 long and the looked really washed out. I need up pulling 2 of the bulbs and the llook alot better. The high light also caused the slowergrowing, lower light plants to do poorly. That said I'm switching to t5no soon gonna run one 6700 and an actinic.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*Aulonocara_Freak*
Find the light, design how it will sit on the tank or above it and then pick plants. E.g. let's say you find a 24" fixture with one single t5ho AND a 2 bulb t5no 30"fixture. You may decide to go with the NO light simply because it could sit right on top of your 20g long.

If you find a 2 bulb t5ho fixture with separate switches then you will want to pick your plants accordingly. A lily (for example) might be exactly what you chose as it is a full sun plant that will then shade other plant choices.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

what amount of lighting would a 2 T5NO give?
Would it give me low, medium, or high lighting?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Grumblecakes said:


> I would also consider how your fish will look with intense light. I had 5 14w cfls over mine 20 long and the looked really washed out. I need up pulling 2 of the bulbs and the llook alot better. The high light also caused the slowergrowing, lower light plants to do poorly. That said I'm switching to t5no soon gonna run one 6700 and an actinic.


I want to put cfl's over the tank but there are no hood's like that. 
Where did u get yours?
Did u make it?

On my 10g I have a double bulb hood that has 2 x 13 watt 6500k and 800 Lumens bulbs. I wish i could do this on my 20g Long.


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## londonloco (Mar 31, 2011)

Look at the link I gave you above. Hoppy's chart (he has a par meter, and has done extensive testing on lighting in the aquarium) puts 2 NO bulbs both sitting on top of the tank and 4" above the tank as medium light.

By comparison, you'd have to have 1xT5HO sitting 4" above the tank for high light. All my T5HO fixtures only sit 2" above the tank with legs, you would have to suspend the light from the ceiling or on brackets to get it 4" above the tank.

High light and pressurized co2 go hand in hand.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I am just not understanding this! 
Ok what level of lighting will this http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/209846/product.web give me?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*Aulonocara_Freak*Don't feel bad... 
I don't understand the table that Lodonloco linked to and I have rented a PAR meter before!

The poster of that table neglects to post details that I find pretty darn important. He never seems to have tested many real world scenarios so I'm sorry, but I just don't find that link to be helpful.

Typically, this type of fixture ends up being low light that borders on insufficient lighting:
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/209846/product.web 
I can grow some plants under that light on such a low tank as a 20g long but not others that you'd think you ought to be able to. Personally, my fave light for a 20g tank is a two bulb T5 HO with seperate switches. I build my own lights with a great reflector so I am not sure if there is a commercial unit with two switches or not. You can hang the kit from a light hanging kit over glass hoods and I'd describe one bulb as medium light, both bulbs as high light using a hanging kit and glass lid.

In a perfect world, (which I get by wiring up my own lights) then I wire up the two bulb HO T5 fixture so that each bulb has it's own power supply and can be run off seperate timers. That way you can run one bulb for a full photo period and then start up the second bulb for that higher intensity mid-day sun effect! :thumb:

I hope this all helps.


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## londonloco (Mar 31, 2011)

Number6 said:


> *Aulonocara_Freak*Don't feel bad...
> I don't understand the table that Lodonloco linked to and I have rented a PAR meter before!
> 
> The poster of that table neglects to post details that I find pretty darn important. He never seems to have tested many real world scenarios so I'm sorry, but I just don't find that link to be helpful.
> ...


To each his own I guess. I'm not a lighting guru, but find that table spot on. I totally disagree with putting T5HO over a 13" tank, I really think it's way to much light, especially without pressurized co2.

However, I totally agree with separate switches. All my T5HO fixtures have each bulb on a separate switch. I have a 26 gallon bow (excel and pps dosing daily) that is 19" high with 2xT5HO on separate switches. When I ran both bulbs at the same time, I started to see several types of algae starting to grow. I now have one light on for 4 hours, when it goes off, the next light goes on for 4 hours. No algae in this tank, ever, since I've changed the lighting scheme. Other tanks I run 3 hour mid day bursts.

I have three planted 20g longs, with a T5NO 2x18W fixtures on them (again, excel and pps dosing, the two tanks below also have soil/3M color quartz as substrate). I run both lights (67K and a pink bulb) 8 hours a day. Plant growth is slow, but steady. Here's a couple of pics I took today.....both of them are still works in progress:

Endler holding tank, not sure what it will hold next:









This tank holds 3 punks that were being bullys in my 125g and 5 serpa tetras, I love these tetras, such a beautiful color they are:


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok so it seems all i can do is list hood's/fixture's and see what will give me medium-high light without CO2.

What does this give me http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13447&pcatid=13447&r=487???


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

londonloco said:


> I totally disagree with putting T5HO over a 13" tank, I really think it's way to much light, especially without pressurized co2.


It might be, and it might not be... that's what I don't like about the chart. A bulb with a good reflector will shine anywhere from 60 to around 80% of it's light downwards... really great reflectors may get more, but you get the idea. No reflector immediately loses 50% of any light made. Glass tops will eat up to 12% of light IME.... not the 6% mentioned in one of his replies. Perhaps his lids were very thin or very clear glass? No idea... he doesn't say.

So, let's take a cheap 24" bulb at around 4100K (I'm cheap so I use standard sizes even on non-standard length tanks and love to go for cheap bulbs if I know I can). 
with no reflector I lose 50% So, now I'm down to about 900 lumens... another 90 are eaten up by the glass lid. 820 lumens... it's only a CRI of 85, so how much red and blue light is now actually shining onto plant leaves? It was mostly green light to begin with...

Now, let's get back to the problem at hand... Aulonocara_Freak, you seem to be willing to order online, yes? If so, then you need to simply decide if this is sitting on top of the tank on it's own housing or legs or suspended. If it's going to be on top of the tank, then T5 NO (2 bulbs) or 1 T5 HO would likely be plenty depending on a few other choices. 
If you'd like a few examples to choose from then I could post a recommendation as long as 30" light hoods were fine for you.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I would like a fixture that clips/holds on to the rim of the tank rather that 1 of the fixtures that go on top of the glass lid. My price limit is $55~, If anyone knows of a hood that is T5HO please get me a link, also a DREAM hood would be a hood with 1 bulb blue/actinic and 1 T5HO bulb that has 2 switches so i can turn either bulb on when i want to.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> I would like a fixture that clips/holds on to the rim of the tank rather that 1 of the fixtures that go on top of the glass lid. My price limit is $55~, If anyone knows of a hood that is T5HO please get me a link, also a DREAM hood would be a hood with 1 bulb blue/actinic and 1 T5HO bulb that has 2 switches so i can turn either bulb on when i want to.


ANYONE???


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

When I first started to dabble in planted, I was pretty much where you are now. No real way to tell what would work and all the fixtures are an investment that may not work. So I built my own that is cheap and can be rearranged as much as needed. If you have minimal wood working skill but are willing and inventive, you can do it cheap. 
I built a wooden frame to set on the tank edge and added bulb holders for CFL mini-twist bulbs. You can add more or take some out as you feel without any real expense. No wiring skills required. 









Cheap, flexible, works, and doesn't have to be pretty as it is out of sight under the cover. I found it very handy to find what worked in my tank with my plants. Each tank is different anyway.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

*PfunMo,* it looks like a good idea but is there a splash guard or anything like that?

Can u get me some pic's of the whole fixture?
Can u please tell me how u made it?

Thanks,
Aulonocara


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I have either glass lids or plexiglass laying across under the bulbs. Sometimes there are massive waves! For a picture of the whole fixture, it would only show as a wooden canopy as all the lights are inside and hidden. i have done these in a number of different ways for different tanks. The base of the whole idea is the construction bulb holders that have a screw down lid. The extention cord wire lays in grooves and when the lid screws down a metal probe pierces the wire insulation to make contact. Once wired and sure it is where I want it, I silicone the opening shut to seal it from water. Then I strap it to boards where I feel I want more light. 
I get the best value buying cheap extention cords as they come with the plug already on and are cheaper than buying wire off a roll. Go figure? 
This is one on a 55 with the cover open.








These are on glass under cover on a 75
















The rest is just strapping the cord up where I want it and plugging it in. 
Inside a planted 20








The 20 gallon tank closed on right, 75 on left









The last two are tanks that I wanted light some places and dark in others for CA cichlids


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

*PfunMo,* thanks!

Ok so that's an idea on a DIY fixture.



Aulonocara_Freak said:


> I would like a fixture that clips/holds on to the rim of the tank rather that 1 of the fixtures that go on top of the glass lid. My price limit is $55~, If anyone knows of a hood that is T5HO please get me a link, also a DREAM hood would be a hood with 1 bulb blue/actinic and 1 T5HO bulb that has 2 switches so i can turn either bulb on when i want to.


anyone have an idea for this???


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## Grumblecakes (Feb 20, 2011)

that is more or less the same way i built my cfl fixture

most hardware stores sell pretty cheap t5 fixtures if you wanna diy. problem *** ran into is finding bulbs above 4100k. i prefer the look of 6500k. be aware that there are quite a few cheap fixtures that are basically throw a ways and its near impossible to find bulbs for. i made this mistake a few days ago, thank god walmart has a fairly liberal return policy.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> anyone have an idea for this???


All i can find online are one power chord configurations like this one:
Http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... YQ8wIwAzgK

Good news is that it uses 24" bulbs, bad news is that 2 bulbs will be too much light. I am leaning towards the diy route. Pfmuno's idea is good as would be kits like the ahsupply.com choices.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Number6 said:


> Aulonocara_Freak said:
> 
> 
> > anyone have an idea for this???
> ...


OK so the ones on ahsupply.com do they go in a hood? or are they a KIT i will need to put together?

BTW this is the one i am looking at

Part 30551 - 1 x 55 watt Bright Kit
This collection of first class components lets you maximize the advantages of compact fluorescent lighting. Includes: one 8 ounce solid-state electronic ballast; one 22"L x 4"W x 2"H multi-angle MIRO 4 enhanced, polished aluminum reflector; one moisture-resistant endcap with cord; two steel bulb holders; one grounding power cord; wirenuts and screws needed for installation; optional-use pop-in vent covers, snap bushing, cord clamp and nylon spacers; and ballast operation information and wiring diagram. Requires one 55 watt CF bulb (not included). (Note: for a kit specifically designed for retrofitting a plastic light strip, see Strip Light kit #30551SL.) 
Price: $44.99


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Some small points IF someone is thinking of using the CFL idea. There seems to be two types of these bulbholders at Lowe's or Home Depot. One has a bar which swivels to hold the wire and make the electrical contact. I do not like that type as it seems to leave the chance of water getting in a bit higher and harder to seal. There is a round top type that screws on so that it covers the contacts better. I add just a bit of silicone where the wire enters so that it is sealed. Maybe paranoid but with electrical stuff it is better to prevent problems rather than fix them later. I have had no trouble with water splash or condensation on my lights. The CFL heats in the base rather than the glass part so water on hot glass is not as much a problem as normal bulbs. I have always thought sealing around the bulb base might be good but it has not been needed on mine----yet. At two dollars for each holder, my worst case would be to replace one. I find I can move the holders around on the cord and not cause problems if I cover the puncture hole in the insulation with some silicone. Makes it very flexible as you don't have to make a final decision but can built it and then change it if needed.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> OK so the ones on ahsupply.com do they go in a hood? or are they a KIT i will need to put together?
> 
> BTW this is the one i am looking at
> 
> ...


Also if i did a DIY hood how many CFL 13 watt 800L bulbs would i need?


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I used four on a standard twenty and it might have been a little much. I got a good layer of algae with my plants but then there are several factors at work for that. May not be all the lights fault. I currently have two bulbs backed off to avoid heating the tank so much. I wanted the HOB filter to be at the end so built the cover that way without thinking how much the filter would restrict airflow when it pretty well fills the end of the hood. I built it more due to wood on hand rather than for design purposes. I should think four would be plenty for a twenty long but the best part of this way is that it can be changed so easy. If you need more, clip on more. If you need less, take them off and rearrange them. The electrical contact makes such a small hole in the insulation that I feel fine with just dabbing some silicone on it. For extra insurance, a layer of tape could be added as well. If the insulation is rubbery, the hole is self-healing.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

A couple more pictures of my 20 gallon hood with end filter. Much of it was designed to do what I wanted and might not fit for what you want. My tank had a damaged top trim so I wanted the hood to come down to cover the damage. I can get damaged tanks cheap! The cross bars let the outside drop down further than many hoods might. The end filter definitely made things different. Part of the purpose of the cross bar is to strengthen the end which is open.

Hood with lid open








Looking down into the hood and water from above. Two bulbs working, two turned out to cut the heat. 









A pretty simple hood to make. If you have a saw to miter corners it makes it easier but if not, you can just butt the corner and use 1" corner moldings to cover the raw board ends. A couple cross bars to hold the cover up to whatever height you want and then a lid. Mine is hinged to open to the end because I wanted full access for a planted tank and hinged the other way would have made the hood try to flip off when the lid was opened. It also lets me pull the filter straight up and off for cleaning.

The mirror on the lid to reflect light? Worthless! Should have saved my effort.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Number6 said:


> Aulonocara_Freak said:
> 
> 
> > anyone have an idea for this???
> ...


That is defiantly a choice!!!  What lighting range would that put me in?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> Number6 said:
> 
> 
> > i can find online are one power chord configurations like this one:
> ...


Does anyone know?


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## Barton (Jun 15, 2011)

Nice talking going here. I like to read this post.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok so if i got this fixture http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/209846/i/7/product.web, what bulbs would i need to give me medium lighting?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*Aulonocara_Freak*
IMHO, that would be a low light tank. You could make a nice planted tank with that light but no "special" bulb can bring it up into the medium light range.

After reading your posts, I'm going to suggest that you go with that light fixture and plan for a low light, no CO2 setup. You can really make a nice planted tank using plants like java ferns, bolbitis, some crypts etc. Try to plan for enough plants to cover at least 60% of the substrate if you want to defeat the algae before it starts! Read up on www.plantedtank.net for many useful articles on low light setups. :thumb:


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok i really would like MEDIUM lighting. So what bulbs would i need?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Has anyone used this http://www.bigalsonline.com/Freshwater-Aqualight-Deluxe-Series_10011137_82.html?
Is it good?
What do u have to say about it?
Will it give me MEDIUM lighting?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I REALLY NEED HELP!!!

I still don't have a HOOD/FIXTURE.

Will this http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4455058 give me MEDIUM lighting?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

The problem is the 30" length... just one of the many reasons I build my own hoods. You can get high light and low light fixtures but medium is a challenge.

http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaticLife_ ... 4U-vi.html

IMHO, this would give you medium to high lighting. With 2 HO T5 bulbs you would NOT want expensive bulbs and you may even need to diffuse the light some. A split photoperiod would be a must. 
:thumb:


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Thanks for that hood but it is just to pricey for me.

Can SOMEONE please answer my question!?!?!



Aulonocara_Freak said:


> Will this http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4455058 give me MEDIUM lighting?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Also is T5 ad T5NO the same?

I CAN'T FIND "T5NO" BULB'S, FIXTURE'S, ETC.

PLEASE HELP!


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*Aulonocara_Freak*

Lodonloco and I gave you suggestions of what each of us would consider a medium light hood way back on page 1... we differ slightly, but you should be able to figure out what to do from our replies.

You ask about T5NO 2x18W. 
NO stands for normal output... it's the same as someone saying 2x18W T5 but not the same as someone saying HOT5 or T5HO.

You could arrive at Lodonloco's suggestion by buying two of the fixtures I linked you to. 
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/209846/product.web

You can arrive at close to my suggestion but missing out on separate power switches if you bought this:
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/244415/product.web

NOBODY is going to keep replying to every light fixture you find to let you know if that is medium, high, low... we all have real lives!


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Number6 said:


> *Aulonocara_Freak*
> 
> Lodonloco and I gave you suggestions of what each of us would consider a medium light hood way back on page 1... we differ slightly, but you should be able to figure out what to do from our replies.
> 
> ...


I don't mean to be annoying. I JUST WANT TO DO IT RIGHT. Ok thanks for answering my question. So now that i know T5NO is T5 i am going to get the 1st fixture in your post and get different T5 bulb's.


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