# Community tank



## LovelyBubbly (Oct 11, 2008)

Hi all,

Wondered what everyone's opinions are on my proposed stock for my now cycling 190L. Tank dimensions are L = 100cm, W = 40cm, H = 55cm. It has sand substrate, planted with coconut caves and rocks.

2 Opaline Gourami (males - already have these)
1 Bulldog Pleco (already have)
2 Bolivian Rams (m & f)
1 Blue Acara
2-4 Angelfish (in the hope I get a pair, ideally just want a pair)
6 mixed Corydoras (3 of one type, 3 of another)

Also is it possible to keep Shrimp if I get the big species? All fish except the Gouramis will be juveniles.

Thanks!


----------



## LovelyBubbly (Oct 11, 2008)

*bump*


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I was really hoping some one else was going to reply here, but oh well...

G'day *LovelyBubbly*, welcome to C-F.

First of all, let me say that the only cichlid on your list that I have kept is the Blue acara, and that was more than 20 years ago.

Blue acaras can grow to between 6 and 8 inches. Compared to the rest of your fish, it will be larger and thicker bodied, and poses a greater level of aggression. My personal opinion (which is well known on the forum) is that any fish that can reach 8 inches in length shouldn't be kept in anything less than a 75 gallon, four foot tank. As this cichlid has the potential to dominate all the rest of the fish in your tank, I'd drop it from your proposed stock list.

Here is a link to a recent discussion on a good method of obtaining a pair of Angelfish. As with most SA cichlids, it's always good buy atleast six juveniles, more is better, and let them growout and pair up naturally instead of trying to force a pair. Or if your lucky, you might find a pair that has already formed in a LFS tank. Obviously you keep the pair and return, the other angelfish to the LFS for store credit.

Many of the contributers to the BRC thread will tell you that it's better to keep Bolivian rams in small groups than just a pair. They are a socail cichlid.

I hope some one with first hand experience will comment, as I think mixing Angelfish and Gouramis may lead to some conflict here.

My personal opinion would be to definately drop the Blue acara, I'd also trade in the Gouramis, and start with:
6 juvenile Angelfish with the intention to keep one pair.
6 juvenile bolivian rams with the intention of keeping two pairs.
1 Bulldog Pleco
6 corydoras of one species.
School of higher bodied tetras, like Lemon tetras or Black Phantom tetras, Atleast a dozen.


----------



## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I'd echo dropping the blue acara, especially if you want the rams and the angels. I'd easily keep a pair of blue acaras in your size tank, but other than a school of tetras, not much else would survive. (well technically our 90cm tanks are a bit wider, but you get the point).

2 spot gouramis can be pushy (opaline is one of the many color forms) and while not quite paradise fish pushy, they do a decent runner up ... I've done angels with dwarf gouramis before and even pearls, but never tried any of the 2 spots. I'd be leary.

The bulldog pleco should be fine, and again I'd echo *DFF*'s idea of all one group of cories. Not all cory species combine schools much like not all tetras do.

Bolivians would be fine as a pair, I've kept them in a 60cm long tank before without issues. While they do enjoy groups, I think 100cm might be too small to accommodate a group of 6. I'm waiting on a 150cm or 180cm before trying a group of them, though I will probably do a pair in a 90cm soon.

And sounding like a record ... but ditto on the angels. I always bought 6-8 and let them pair naturally. 2 angels usually became 1 in very short order. 4 might get you lucky, but odds are deffinately better with 6 or even 8 juvies.


----------



## LovelyBubbly (Oct 11, 2008)

One of my Opalines is aggressive to the other, despite me moving them all into the bigger tank today. If anything it's made him worse  Someone suggested getting two females and waiting for them to pair off.

I've read that Angels and Gourami can get on. I have been researching quite a lot and this is the first time I've read about any possibility of a conflict - though of course I shall bare it in mind.

I always wanted Angelfish before, but have grown fonder of the Acara and Bolivians, so may try getting 4 or so of the Bolivians. Maybe leave the Angels for now.

I'm going to try the Acara. Can always take him back if it doesn't work out. Other people have said they would work in my proposed community, so we will see.

I already have 2 Black Phantom Tetras and 3 Columbian Red Fins, who I have up for sale, but may keep them and up their numbers.

It's so hard getting this community thing right :-?


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hi *LovelyBubbly*,

Have looked at any of the dwarf acara species? 
I think you would have much better success with a pair like Laetacara dorsigera and four Bolivian rams, and you might still be able to have a pair of angelfish as well with this combination.

Please remember that most cichlids are territorial fish, especially when it comes to a breeding pair. If by chance you end with a mated pair of Bolivian rams that breed, you may see clash between the pair defending thier territory and the Blue acara.

Unfortunately more often than not, we are out at work, school, living our life etc. when these incidents occur, and all we are able to do is clean up the mess afterwards. Most of the time this doesn't result in us taking back a fish to the LFS, but rather disposing of a body or two.

Or to use an analogy, it may be akin to placing a jack russell and a rotweiler in a small backyard. Both dogs have personality, and may get along fine, but if a confronation occurs, the jack russell aint going to survive as it has nowhere to hide.

I am just trying to put the welfare of the fish first, that's all.


----------



## LovelyBubbly (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks for the advice.

I am rehoming the Gouramis.

What about:

5 Black Phantom Tetra
5 Columbian Red Fin Tetra
1 Bulldog Pleco
6 Corydoras
2 Bolivian Rams
2 Laetacara dorsigera
1 Angelfish

?


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

i would stick with either bolivians or the dorsignera personally, cause if you get both that is 2 bottom dwelling pairs of cichlids fighting over the bottom of the tank, if the tanks lower region is set up well then you shouldnt have problems, but figured id add that for you to think about to.

colombian tetras like to nip fins, a general rule of thumb with tetras, if they have an under bite (like a piranha), they are aggressive and fin nippers, if they dont, there fine (usually).

i would personally only get a single kind of tetra and get a large school of that kind, just my opinion though, not a huge deal

btw, you may know this already, but for sexing the Black Phantoms, females have red, males do not, and sexually mature males have a massive dorsal fin.

but aside from that the tank stock list sounds great, good luck!


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *LovelyBubbly*,

LOL, ( :? ) it's hard when we're all advising slightly different things isn't it.

I do agree with *gage* about having one large school of tetras. I usually like having two schools of tetras in my tanks, simply for the contrast. But a tetra with the body shape of a Black Phantom tetra looks good in a larger scool. I have 20 Lemon tetras in a single tetra school in a similarly sized tank.

As for your cichlids. Why have you given up the idea of obtaining a pair on angels?

I'm in two minds in regards to *gage's* advice about having two pairs of bottom dwelling dwarf cichlids in your tank. I do think your floor space does provide enough area for two territories, but I think you may be better off with two pairs of one species, rather than one pair of two different species.

But this is the dilema, Bolivian rams and L. dorsigera are the two most personable dwarf cichlids around. Which to choose, that's up to you.

Have you talked with a LFS about buying a group of juvenile cichlids, growing them out so that you can obtain a bonded pair and returning the rest for store credit? I have done this in the past, and the deal I struck was that as I would be returning adult or almost adult fish that they can sell for a higher price, that I would recieve store credit to the value of the cost of each juvenile. So if I bought 6 juveniles at $5 each, and returned 4, I would recieve $5 store credit each for the 4 I returned, so $20 store credit. And trust me, you'll use that store credit easy enough, even if it's just for dry, frozen and live foods.

If it were me, I'd be looking at buying 6 juvenile angels and 6 juvenile rams/dorsigera and growing them out, hoping for 1 pair of angels and two pairs of rams/dorsigera, and returning the other fish that aren't wanted.


----------



## LovelyBubbly (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks again for the advice.

I already had small numbers of two types of tetra, so I wouldn't be going down the one type route.

After a bit of phoning around I managed to get my 3 Opaline Gouramis exchanged. I got 2 Bolivian Rams - pretty sure they are m & f, will take pics a bit later on when they are more settled - 2 more Columbians and they only had one female Phantom (I already have 2 males) so got her and will get two more females later.

It's lovely to see the Columbians playing with each other and the boy Phantoms are showing off to the girl  Will have to get 2 more females a.s.a.p as she'll probably get fed up of it before too long!

I already decided the Bolivians were a definite ages ago so I am very happy with them  Quite shy at the moment, in fact the Columbians made the boy retreat underneath the bogwood when they approached. Still they've only just 'moved in'.

So the stocking is:

5 Columbians
(will be) 5 Phantoms
2 Bolivian Rams
1 Bulldog Pleco

Any suggestions for another type of cichlid which will go well with my existing fish?  Should I get a couple more Bolivians? What about the Apistos like Cockatoo or a pair of Keyholes?


----------



## LovelyBubbly (Oct 11, 2008)

Oh and with regards to buying more with the view to getting a pair is quite difficult as it seems a lot of places won't exchange fish. Was only successful on this occasion I think because I only bought 2 of the Gouramis last Sunday and had the receipt. They didn't give me anything for the male but wasn't fussed, just wanted rid to be perfectly honest.

I think I am going to leave the Angels in favour of keeping my cute little tetras, as I'm sure they would nip fins. The Columbians definitely have a Piranha like mouth.


----------



## LovelyBubbly (Oct 11, 2008)

Just to say I am still getting 6 Corydoras next month.


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

for the short time i had them together keyholes worked fine with rams, if you were looking for another type of cichlid to add i would stick to something that hangs out towards the middle of the tank. that way it wont be competing with the rams for space. from what i understand, apistos are bottom dwellers like the rams so they might not be the best idea.

i would say keyholes would be your best bet, since angels would prolly get nipped, and most smaller cichlids would just compete for floor space with your rams. other larger cichlids would just be too big.


----------



## LovelyBubbly (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks - do Keyholes occupy the mid-area of the tank then?

I've noticed the rams tend to stick to the bottom more (of course I've only just got them so don't know much yet) and with the Pleco and Corys I want to add it would be pretty stocked on the bottom.


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

keyholes will venture all over but i find they prefer mid/lower where rams are low only. depends on the height of the tank and height of the decor really....


----------

