# New tank...no clue about New World cichlids



## newbiechick (Apr 2, 2009)

Hi ...first time in the CA part of the site ... be gentle 

I was directed to you guys by the African experts so hopefully you can help me out.

I've just resealed an old tank ( LxWxH: 4x1.5x1.5 vol: 67.3G/255L ) and have been looking to get just a pair of cichlids for this tank. I've got no experience with CA or SA cichlids, but was told that they do pair up for life and that is exactly what I'm looking for.

After looking at a LOT of threads on a LOT of forums, consensus seems to be that new world cichlids have more personality that Afircans. If thats true, its exactly what I'm after.

What can you guys suggest :-? :-?

BTW my tap water pH is around 7.5 but I can soften that by adding some driftwood. 
I would like to maintain as close to natural habitat as possible, would plants be necessary (along with an complicated CO2 setup) ?

Thanks guys.... :thumb:


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Your tap will be fine for centrals. In fact, some central rivers are so hard and have such a high pH, they make the rift lakes look like discus water. :lol:

Convicts are usually people's first suggestion. They might seem small for your sized tank for just a pair, but they are an excellant starting central for a very good reason. If you want more color, a pair of firemouths would be good too. And if you are feeling really adventurous, you can try a pair of carpentis ... they get a larger size and will fill in the tank better. But might occasionally need to be seperated, especially when the female isn't ready to lay more eggs.

Alot of the rivers these come from are simply sand and rocks, with a little bit of driftwood. So you won't have to worry about CO2. It's actually hard to find the few plants native to the area.


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## cichlidfeesh (Apr 6, 2009)

I personally like Salvini's, Green Terrors, or Firmouths for that size of a tank, I've never paired them though. Plants in a CA tank sometimes can be a headache becasue those guys like to dig and rip them up. Many times i have to reset a plant 3 times a day before i finally take it out. Some plants do work, and for mine i dont do anything special and they seem to grow just fine. If you want a planted tank though a couple of Salvini's would go great IMO. My salvini usually ignores the plants, and *** heard plants help bring out their color. Im not sure about their breeding behavior though (If you wanted to keep a pair).


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## newbiechick (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions guys...

I'm guessing carpentis pair might get too aggressive with no place to run away.
Would love to have green terrors but they might be a little too big to be completely comfortable.
I'll look some more into salvini and firemouths...

Any experience with SAs or should I just make another post in that section


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Salvini would be my choice stunning fish. Jack Dempsy's would be a good choice as well. Or you could do a pair of cons and a single slightly larger specimen. Like your sal or Jack.


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

The first thing I usually ask is what is available in your area. Check the LFS and see your choices.

....Bill


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

Agreed. I plan on getting a similar tank (as I'm sure everyone is just sick to death of hearing me talkabout) - same footprint.

My plan, which so far everyone has said they think will work, is a Jack, a female Salvini (They stay smaller and are much more colourful than the males) and a pair of Firemouths or Convicts (I haven't completely decided yet...but my tastes lean towards the Firemouths.

These fish all fit a biotope which would indeed be sand, river rocks, and driftwood. I plan on making a DIY background, only rather smooth and covered in the same sand as my substrate, to create a river bank tank.


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## newbiechick (Apr 2, 2009)

I agree on the LFS point but since I'm in no hurry I can always wait till one of the shops near me have the ones that I decide on.

Your mix sounds good Comic Sans but wouldn't it get a little crowded once they mature plus getting a pair of convicts or firemouths might lead to trouble no?

I'm leaning towards a just pair of salvini or firemouths, alteast thats for now haven't even looked at SAs yet :-? :-? so many choices


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

Well, thats the beauty of cichlids, you never know until you try!

I like to think of that mix as "full," and I'd agree that a pair of cons could likely lead to more "trouble" than the firemouths, but mostly because I doubt FM's would spawn in a tank with the other two, where cons of course would.

If it is between sals and FM's I definitely vote salvini.


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## josmoloco (Aug 23, 2008)

This is a 75g? I would do a pair of nics and a pair of firemouths with a school of giant danios myself.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

To be honest, a pair of carpintis is workable, usually they aren't to aggressive to there partner, if you like the carpintis.

a pair of Hypsophrys nicaraguensis would be great in this tank, if you like iridescent spotting they are perfect.

If you are looking for something more on the Parachromis (Guapote) side, Cichlasoma salvini are labeled as mini-guapote for a good reason 

my personal choice would be the carpintis, however, not all fish are for everyone, all have there own favorites. but the carpintis will give you the interaction, especially when breeding, that Nic's and likely salvini will not.


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## newbiechick (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys, I've been looking at vids and reading up on all of them.

I might be getting a background for the tank, so width would be an issue for the bigger carpintis.
Salvini pair seem to fit the bill, but then like you mention gage, they're not that interactive?

Maybe I'm just asking too much personality/interaction wise. After hearing people talk about Oscars etc. as 'pet dogs', it does seem fascinating and something worthwhile to properly research before committing myself. opcorn:


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## lam man48 (Jan 14, 2007)

I'd just throw a green terror in their. they are awsome with color and personality but cons and fires are awsome as well.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

carpintis generally max at about 8-10", 8 is common.

what size of fish were you looking for?

salvini are stocking predators, therefore tend to hide a lot, whereas the carpintis *** had in the past were full blown aggressive finger chasers.


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

I had a small carpintis for a time (didn't know what i was doing, bad lfs advice) and it was a great little fish, finger chaser, would swim right up to wherever i looked in the tank.

Salvini are definitely not of the same temperament (although some people here will tell you about their weird friendly ones). That said, I think it is fascinating to watch their hunting and stalking behaviour. Yes they hide, no they aren't like an oscar, but interesting in their own right.


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## newbiechick (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks for the stalking info on the salvini, exactly what I was loking for. Would love to observe it but I think it would be better in a larger tank with other fish.

I'm looking for something between 6-8",since the background would be tanking up some depth as well. Carpintis seems to fit that well especially with the behavior that you guys mentioned. Would they be suitable in pairs?

I've thought about green terrors but they would get just too big, since this would be a lifelong tank.

What do you guys think about a pair of Neets, just found out about them...


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

I had a bad experience with neet pairs killing eachother off... of course, this was only in a measly 29g, however the fish were 3 inches... they were also very nervous fish, always ran from me. nothing like my RD, carpintis, flowerhorns etc.

exactly how much width will the background take up? however carpintis are capable of growing over 8", it isnt common, but it does happen.

my salvini being one of the odd friendly ones... he plays with the mirror when i hold it up to him, hes in my 90 with a 7" flowerhorn and 7" parrot.

is it the body shape of neets you liked? if so, id look into a pair of Hypsophrys nicaraguensis. great fish, males can get 10", but they are a thinner bodied fish, and they are not very aggressive in the least, but still moderately interactive.

and if im not mistaken, nics are one of the extremely few cichlids that bond for life and will not pair up with another (usually) if there partner dies, kinda sad really. thats what turned me off of them, id feel rather terrible if one of the 2 died.

convicts, if you like the look, would suit what you want very nicely, interactive, great pairing/spawning behavior, really a typical CA cichlid.

alright, enough blabbing from me, I will assemble a list below of what I would take into consideration for this size tank, assuming the background only takes up a bit of room.

here, look into the following genus's, I can make suggestions from each if you'd like 

- Amatitlania
- Cryptoheros
- Archocentrus
- Thorichthys
- Herichthys (there sizes range from 6-12", so be careful in researching )
- Hypsophrys
- Rocio

Salvini are definitely a great option if you like the behavior. If you like them I would recommend you give the Salvini there own tank... they tend to try and hunt down there tankmates... they can be snappy fish at times, depending on the individuals personality. mine is great personally, he is about 6-7" or so.

male Green Terrors are capable of attaining 13", I have seen them this large before.


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## newbiechick (Apr 2, 2009)

"Thanks for the stalking info on the salvini, exactly what I was looking for." I meant what I don't want interms of behavior ie hiding/stalking/nervous fish. 
I've read a lot of threads about dithers with salvini and fire mouths. Dithers are the last thing I want.
As for the depth it'll end up being 1.2", so the max size I'm lookin at is prob 6', so nics are out along with Carpintis  
Neets just might be too hyper aggressive especially without any other fish to focus on.
Convicts do seem the perfect choice but fry would be really hard to get rid off.

Maybe I should just stick to Mbuna :x so much easier :lol:

Thanks for all the info gage, I'll def look into the list you wrote. 
BTW do you have pics of your tanks? Would love to see the setup...


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

You know, they aren't my favourite fish in the world, but watching some nice firemouths interact with one another is actually really interesting. They are not exactly friendly, in my experience , but they don't outright hide, and watching them flare and bluff at one another is actually pretty cool.

They would stay within your 6" max. and they are pretty docile so in a 4' tank you could get away with two pairs.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

I hear about "docile" FM's but I have never met one. Everyone I've had is just as if not more aggressive than any con I've owned. I had one FM's kill everything in a 55g one night. I've had Fm's that terrorized every thing in a 125g despite being smaller. The most docile I've had was just a fin shredder, but that was years ago. Every FM I've ever had has been in the upper tiers of the hierarchy if not holding on to the top rung.


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

chrispyweld said:


> I hear about "docile" FM's but I have never met one.


That's interesting, both times I've introduced FM's to my tank (once admittedly with a small texas, who soon left, and once with my sal) they have quickly become the submissive fish despite being the larger fish.


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## newbiechick (Apr 2, 2009)

Thats the thing I guess, everyone has different experiences with the same fish. Box of chocolates really


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## josmoloco (Aug 23, 2008)

I had a female firemouth in my 55g for two years, she hated other cichlids but never really botherd my gouramies, platies rainbows, galss fish or rainbow shark....


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

my firemouth killed my carpintis... they are NOT the incapable fish everyone makes them out to be, the minute something shows aggression to them, they tend to go berserk.

which tank LOL, I have lots, despite still being in highschool.

I can give you pics of the CA's I've had in the past if you'd like. I do not own most of these fish any longer.

Comic Sans, had any of these firemouths been sexually matured, surely they will be passive if not matured yet.


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## newbiechick (Apr 2, 2009)

Yeah definitely post them, in this thread if you like...

Of all the ones that you have now or in the past , which ones were the most interactive?


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

hmmm could be I guess...both were in the range of 3-3.5", so they weren't super little guys.

And i certainly don't doubt that they have the tools.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Hi Newbiechick - welcome to CA cichlids!!!

You have a lot of options really but you also have to consider a lot of secondary factors. For example Convicts are a favourite of mine. People will sometimes pooh-pooh them as being common or bland but to be honest their behaviours and personalities seem to encapsulate everything people love about CA's in general. They truly are drama queens and will provide you with years of entertainment. Here's the problem though - you will have too many fry to know what to do with them. Fish stores won't take them and every month the parents will have more...

Recently I purchased two Nics. These guys are as personable as any CA cichlid and they have some advantages over fish like Convicts and Salvinis; 1) They aren't piscevores so you can keep 'dithers' with them to add a splash of colour to your tanka and activity to the upper water levels. 2). They are rare enough (in my area) that you can get rid of fry by trading them in at the LFS for store credit or by selling/giving them to other hobbyists in your area.

My Nics have loads of personality - they seem to know when I come to the tank that I am usually bringing them food and they beg accordingly... If however I or anybody else slowly traces their fingers along the glass the male will flare out and try to intimidate this new 'interloper'...

After watching these guys in my 75g tank for a couple of months I am ready to try adding another cichlid - a single specimens of a cichlid of similar tempermant - for me I am going to try a Firemouth.

Anyhow look into Nics they truly are a cool wetpet type of fish that can allow for some other tankmates... While I wouldn't go so far as to call these guys 'community fish' they can definately work with a variety of well chosen tank mates.


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## newbiechick (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks illy-d...I completely agree on the convicts, perfect size temperament, but too prolific :lol: 
gage did mention the Hypsophrys nicaraguensis as well, beautiful but the male will prob get too big for the tank though, its not that wide. I would like them to have room to move, not just the bare minimum.
So whats needed: same size and personality as the convicts, just not as frisky...they seem like the Daffodil of the americans to me :lol:

BTW absolutely love your tanks illy-d, do you have a thread on them somewhere? I would really like to have a better look at how you've set them up.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

There are quite a few convict-like fish ... three differant genus but somewhat closely related (they used to be all in the same genus when the old _Cichlasoma_ was split up ... kind of like how _Haplochromis_ or _Lamprologus_ were).

The only problem might be finding them down there: _Archocentrus centrarchus, A. multispinosus, Cryptoheros cutteri, C. sajica, C. myrnae, C. nanoluteus, C. panamensis, C. septemfasciatus_ or in the same genus as the convicts, the Honduran Red Points.

Oh, and one of the members of the acaras is found in central america ... and I know it's down there becuase I've seen *DFF* post it a few times (if I am remembering right). _A. coeruleopunctatus_ is a blue acara, but honestly it's more of a gold base color with red fins and a blue face. Very pretty.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

You should PM DeadFishFloating and some of the other members from OZ and see what is available in your area - strangely enough I recently stumbled onto an article that listed a few fish that are now 'banned' in Australia - this doesn't mean you won't find them there, only that you won't be able to import them...

By talking with local hobbyists they may be able to give you an idea of what you are able to find in certain LFS or what you may be able to import... The longer I stay in this hobby the more comfortable I become with the idea of spending more money to bring in a 'rarer' fish... A few years back my wife bought me a wild caught Rotkiel for my birthday and my jaw hit the floor when she told me what she paid for it - but I can tell you that fish was worth the money and when circumstances dictated that I had to part with it I had people offering almost as much as we paid for it (in the end I 'traded' her to a responsible hobbyist/breeder for 'future considerations').

I guess what I am saying is find out what you can expect to get your hands on in your area and then don't be afraid to spend a bit of money to get what you really want.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

I agree with illy-d. I paid a to have fish shipped to me from a reputable importer and am very happy with the choice. I found another person who wanted to split the shipping cost with me and in the long run it ended up being very reasonable for the fish I got.

In actuality it was only about $10-15 per fish instead of $6-8 per fish for more common lower quality stock i could find locally. Not a huge difference for fish I hope to have for a decade or so.


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