# mixing different cichlids



## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

We have a tank with 2 jaguars, 3 green terrors and 2 jack dempseys. Are there any african cichlids that would be a good mix with these fish? All of ours are between 1-2 inches.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Hmmmm....... problematic, long term - already - at best. :? 
-
How big is this tank? 
Hint: There will be some ripped fish and probably casualties, before adult size is reached in this cichlid group, even with a six foot long tank.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

agreed, the jack and green terrors will not get along to start with... The jags will become uber territorial in the near future. Only in massive tanks will jags take a back seat to being aggressive.

What size tank is this?


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

That's funny. My tank full of the aggressive fish, is my calmest tank. Terrors and Jack's pal around.


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## allierw (Apr 20, 2006)

It's because they are so small. One day very soon one of the jaguars is going to kill everyone else.


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

allierw said:


> It's because they are so small. One day very soon one of the jaguars is going to kill everyone else.


 Thank you very much for your concern. Right now they are in a 55. we have 11 tanks. We have an other 55 not set up yet and are looking for a 100+ tank. Jag will not kill anyone we will have him in is own home by then. I we are fully aware of all of our fish capabilities. We do not just buy fish without doing our research and I have had American cichlids for years..


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

To answer your original question, it is not a good idea to mix Africans and CA/SA cichlids. It has been done successfully but is not recomended. They require different water parameters, food, and "speak a different language" to put it in simple terms.

GL....Bill


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

MonteSS said:


> To answer your original question, it is not a good idea to mix Africans and CA/SA cichlids. It has been done successfully but is not recomended. They require different water parameters, food, and "speak a different language" to put it in simple terms.
> 
> GL....Bill


 Yes thank you. We do know all of that. We were at our regular shop the other day and they had some mixed we questioned it and they told us that a more aggressive fish added to a tank from another region would help keep down the fighting. We were just wondering. We looked up a few things and went with dither fish instead. I thought this forum was going to help me but it seems like we get a lot of criticism. It is really starting to bum me out. Just want a little help to ensure healthy happy fish.. :-?


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## DISCIPLE (Sep 20, 2007)

I run a 225 with a gt pair ,jd pair, losellie pair, jag pair , grammode pair, a gold tiger motaguense, 2 oscars and cons.....all get along and are not bit or chewed up. everyone is 6" + and everyone has bred in this community tank with the exception of the grammode pair. i find that as long as everyone has there own "spot" (caves,nooks holes etc) and blocking direct lines of sight w/ driftwood/stones eases up a lot of aggression. this tank has been running for 3+ years now. i was told when i was planning it it couldnt be done. so i got everyone small and grew them out with a few exceptions added in later.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

There are always exceptions. Tanks that shouldn't work sometimes do. These situations go against what is generally recommended, which sometimes gives the impression that this advice or 'rule' is incorrect. It isn't, it's simply a standard that works for the majority. Try not to be too disenchanted by the criticism. I think you'll find that everyone has you and your fish's best interests at heart.


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## belxavier420 (Aug 19, 2010)

I believe the criticism was due to the original question. The way it was worded made it sound like you where planing long term for the tank. When young most cichlids will get along as it benefits them too school together. I dont see any benefit with adding africans to your current mix. Honestly you should not need dithers for juveniles either so I don't see any need to add more fish to your 55 especially since you already plan to split the fish up. I would put as few fish in the 55 as possible to try and grow them out quickly.


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

belxavier420 said:


> I believe the criticism was due to the original question. The way it was worded made it sound like you where planing long term for the tank. When young most cichlids will get along as it benefits them too school together. I dont see any benefit with adding africans to your current mix. Honestly you should not need dithers for juveniles either so I don't see any need to add more fish to your 55 especially since you already plan to split the fish up. I would put as few fish in the 55 as possible to try and grow them out quickly.


 Ok first of all my husband and I both have been typing on here. We are trying to plan for WHEN the fish start to be aggressive. Okay yes a long term plan as in when!!!!!!!! We need something to calm down the fish. I am sorry if you misunderstood our question. When did we say we were going to split them? I am trying to get a plan together so I don't have to. I also said I was looking for a bigger tank. Cichlids were the very first fish I have ever had. I raised a Red Devil for almost 5 years he grew to almost a foot. I KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN!! I am very grateful for all of the advise, but I thought was a forum for Cichlid lovers to get help from other Cichlid lovers without feeling foolish.


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## sjwrx (Apr 15, 2009)

joshntarri said:


> belxavier420 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the criticism was due to the original question. The way it was worded made it sound like you where planing long term for the tank. When young most cichlids will get along as it benefits them too school together. I dont see any benefit with adding africans to your current mix. Honestly you should not need dithers for juveniles either so I don't see any need to add more fish to your 55 especially since you already plan to split the fish up. I would put as few fish in the 55 as possible to try and grow them out quickly.
> ...


No one here is trying to make you feel foolish. They are just trying to educate you at the same keeping the fish's best interest in mind. I'm glad you are planning ahead and is thinking of getting them a much larger tank, but like TFG says: Buy the tank then the fish. Things happen in life. Cichlids were also the first fish that i've kept, and tbh i've made a lot of mistakes along the way, i've lost some, i've seen some get quite beaten up, and most of the time this doesnt happen when i'm infront of the tank. Waking up the next day to dead fish is not a great way to start a day.

To answer your original question, some people have kept them with success while others have not. Personally i've tried this and i've found that they will harass and nip constantly, Yes my 5" socolofi nearly destroyed my 5" red devil. This is my personal experience. There are exceptions, but i personally wouldnt add anything more to the 55g.


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

Ask a simple question, and this **** starts. If you have no good suggestions, leave your crappy ones to yourself.


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

sjwrx said:


> joshntarri said:
> 
> 
> > belxavier420 said:
> ...


 I understand I should have the bigger tank first. The first one I started with 55g my son gave to me. It sat in my garage wile my mom stayed with me on hospice until she passed away on May 22. I was in a hurry to get the tank going and keep my mind off of the last 5 months. Maybe I am doing it all wrong but I am trying. I have 11 tanks running. I never intended to have so many in a 55g but I needed a smaller tank for breeding. I did not expect to have 5 pairs right from the start. And lastly this question was my husbands not mine he was just trying to get some info because our pet shop had them mixed. this has gotten so out of hand over nothing really. And I do appreciate everyone giving us advise.


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## belxavier420 (Aug 19, 2010)

joshntarri said:


> Jag will not kill anyone we will have him in is own home by then. I we are fully aware of all of our fish capabilities. We do not just buy fish without doing our research and I have had American cichlids for years..


 That was what I read that though you where going to separate them. They can live together but a very large tank is needed.


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## starplayer (May 3, 2011)

Have you posted this on the African forum? If you are after advice from people that have experience of mixing Africans n Americans then not many people do it. If you want us to throw a name into the ring then that's easy, though may be way out. I will start off - 
M Auratus.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

While Central American chiclids and Rift Lake cichlids have similar water requirements, some have different dietary requirements which makes mixing them problematic. However, for me, the best reason not to mix them is that you don't get to see the natural behaviors that we keep cichlids for.


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

starplayer said:


> Have you posted this on the African forum? If you are after advice from people that have experience of mixing Africans n Americans then not many people do it. If you want us to throw a name into the ring then that's easy, though may be way out. I will start off -
> M Auratus.


 No we have not we are not mixing was just wondering but if you are going to throw names I will catch Frontosa!!!! That is my favorite African.


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## sjwrx (Apr 15, 2009)

joshntarri said:


> starplayer said:
> 
> 
> > Have you posted this on the African forum? If you are after advice from people that have experience of mixing Africans n Americans then not many people do it. If you want us to throw a name into the ring then that's easy, though may be way out. I will start off -
> ...


From what i know frontosa's like to be in groups and can get quite large as well.


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## phishes (May 17, 2005)

joshntarri said:


> Ask a simple question, and this #%$& starts. If you have no good suggestions, leave your crappy ones to yourself.


Everyone gave you the correct info...you just don't like the answers. These fish can only get along in the long term in a very large tank which would have to be a 6' tank.


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

The last two that responded before you are the only ones I agree with. Others I might have agreed with if they had been more respectful in their answers.


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## Jenbubs (Apr 10, 2011)

Just to lend out my experience...I hardly post in here because I have my way of doing things as well and don't want to be ripped apart by those who "know it all..." I think you have a good start here. It's best to buy many and small so that when they grow out, you already know who to remove due to aggression I have a jack dempsey, Texas, JAG, salvini, vieja bifasciatum and jewel cichlid whom I purchased at about an inch each and they have been in a 55. They have established their pecking order, and with plenty of site breaks. I think I have a JAG who is the exception to the rule, because even now at the better part of 8 inches she is very laid back and hasn't even so much as nipped a fin. The salvini, at 4 inches, runs the tank.(and yes for those reading I have upgraded from a 55 as they have grown.) They are all my babies and I wouldn't want anything to happen to them! And fronts are my favorite too, if you get any, high five I would only keep them with other comparable Africans though. Good luck with the babies! And remember,( to the forum in general) everyone's experience with fish is different, we cant criticize others because what didn't work for you may work for them. Cheers


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

Jenbubs said:


> Just to lend out my experience...I hardly post in here because I have my way of doing things as well and don't want to be ripped apart by those who "know it all..." I think you have a good start here. It's best to buy many and small so that when they grow out, you already know who to remove due to aggression I have a jack dempsey, Texas, JAG, salvini, vieja bifasciatum and jewel cichlid whom I purchased at about an inch each and they have been in a 55. They have established their pecking order, and with plenty of site breaks. I think I have a JAG who is the exception to the rule, because even now at the better part of 8 inches she is very laid back and hasn't even so much as nipped a fin. The salvini, at 4 inches, runs the tank.(and yes for those reading I have upgraded from a 55 as they have grown.) They are all my babies and I wouldn't want anything to happen to them! And fronts are my favorite too, if you get any, high five I would only keep them with other comparable Africans though. Good luck with the babies! And remember,( to the forum in general) everyone's experience with fish is different, we cant criticize others because what didn't work for you may work for them. Cheers


 Thank you so much. Just to be clear I am the wife responding. It is greatly appreciated that some one is seeing our side of things. We just got Peacocks 18 a breeding pair and their babies. They came with the 150gallon we upgraded to. And we kept all 4 55g, a 45g, 29g, 28g, 22g, 3 10g, a5g and a hospital and 3 little fry baskets. Everyone is split up and doing well. I had to put everything so I don't hear about it also. I really like the fronts too! But they get so big I have enough of those. lol I am so jealous you have a vieja I want one so bad the argentea. We are driving to Kentucky to pick up 8 fish we found on line that we can never get around us. I have a portable tank for them. It will cost less to go than have them shipped. Any way thanks again it feels good to just talk to a fish lover!!! have a great d =D> ay!!


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

phishes said:


> joshntarri said:
> 
> 
> > Ask a simple question, and this #%$& starts. If you have no good suggestions, leave your crappy ones to yourself.
> ...


 We got one thank you. Tarri


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

*joshntarri*

If I may make a suggestion Josh and Tarri... Get seperate user names. It will help clear some of the confusion. My wife is also on here sometimes as she's got a 240 with 13 mpimbwe frontosa.

I post with personal experiences. One of my personal experiences is that 55 gallon aquariums are the most worthless size fish tank ever manufactured! :lol: I get more use out of the ten 29's than a 55... But that's just me... In the past twenty five years of keeping cichlids I have also learned that the term "long term" varies in definition from person to person. Long term to some is a year, long term to me is the lifespan of an average sized CA/SA cichlid 10-15 years. I do not claim to know it all, but I do claim to have gone down the same exact road you are about to with the fish you have. If my comments sometimes seem harsh I appologize. It's only because I've been there and experienced the frustration of things working for only so long, then one morning completely out of the blue the fit hits the shan and you're standing in front of your tank with tears rolling down your face as you remove the dead bodies of your favorite fish... Just attempting to save some heartache.

I have read the entire thread, I only have one other post in this thread:


TheFishGuy said:


> agreed, the jack and green terrors will not get along to start with... The jags will become uber territorial in the near future. Only in massive tanks will jags take a back seat to being aggressive.
> 
> What size tank is this?


I still stand by it with confidence but I appologize for taking the thread in the wrong direction.

Good day, good luck and if you ever need sound advice feel free to ask it in a pm to any one of us on staff. Most of us have kept these fish for decades and have tried it all...

TFG


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## starplayer (May 3, 2011)

Well I see absolutely no need to apologise to anyone on this thread. Everyones replies, mine included were given in good faith. That is what these forums do. If the OP had greater clarity in their question then perhaps we could have helped more. Good point about different usernames though.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

I want to add my experience to the mix.

I housed in a 55gal. A single Jack Dempsey with Malawi Mbuna successfully in the past.

My stocklist was....
1 Jack Dempsey(female) 
w/a pair of....
Metriaclima Callainos(female).
1large Pleco.

Most will say all females would not be as colorful,but color wasn't an issue. Neither was aggresssion . Here's the story if your interested.

I got my J.D when I was a young boy. A birthday present from my mother,who bought the tank at a big chain pet store.

I received a 10 gallon tank,A black convict,as well as the J.D, a Rainbowshark,and some barbs.

The barbs Were killed by the convict and the shark was re-homed to nicer aquarium store I scoped out around the block from my school. I talked to someone who would today be described as an enthusiast and a fish keeper. He informed me, my mom had unwittingly purchased the wrong set up. and that he would be happy to help me with a better one. After careful deliberation I decide to keep my convict and my Jack Dempsey. He gave me in store credit for my shark,And my 10 gallon set up. I used it to help purchase my First 55 gallon tank. Which,by the way was the smallest suggested tank for my fish.I added a plecostumus soon after. I had them in this tank for a couple years.My brother wanted the convict for a breeder set up. I told him the fish guy said if I breed them then the Jack might get abused by the breeding convict pair .That's why I only kept one.But, he insisted, and I gave it up.So stuck with a lone Big J.D. I wanted another fish. Logically I would go back to the fish guy and tell him I wanted a fish to go with a large female Jack Dempsey and a large Pleco. He would probably say add a male Jack. Well I wasn't able to do that because the fish guys' store was no longer open for business. I later met a person who was breeding Malawi mbuna out of her living room.She.much like the fish guy seemed to be an enthusiast. I mean her living room was wall to wall mbuna it was like walking into an exhibit at the zoo.Breeder tanks set up,she had separated by gender tanks. fish she vented or bred successfully and then placed in gender specific tanks.All the species were separated.Very pro.She told me she didn't really want to sell me the Cobalts because they would fight and she was nervous about me putting them in with my Jack Dempsey. I assured her if I noticed any aggression deemed intolerable I would quickly return the Cobalts. She bit and I ended up with two females. which she basically picked saying that two males would end up being one and I could get three females and one male for a package deal. I should have taken that and another 55 gallon tank. Foolish me.She even said she would by any unwanted fry they produced.I asked what she meant as I hadn't yet bred any cichlids. And until now my other cichlids were carnivorous.Meaning I assumed the Jack would eat the babies.Anyways,I decide to just get two at the normal price .I kept those four fish,the Cobalts,Jack,and Pleco for years with no issue.Until my Jack eventually died.I'm sure of old age.I was actually pretty sad about that. I then got rid of my Cobalts, and stopped keeping fish altogether.Until many years later after my lovely wife basically did the exact same thing my mom did years ago.She went to the big chain store and said she wanted to get cichlids for her husband as a gift.Only this time instead of J.D's,Convicts,and barbs it was Yellow Labs,Kenyi,and Auratus. Two of which are considered the most aggressive Malawi mbuna.And yes the 10 gallon tank. At least they were all malawi cichlids.I knew right away the combination was questionable too many similar looking or similar colored cichlids just seemed off.Of course these days we have the World Wide Web.I logged on.Web searched African Cichlids,and soon found the Cichlid-Forum.Got rid of all fish and started over. I've been battling my Mbuna addiction ever since. With a trio of mbuna 55 gallon tanks.I am now leasing a separate property to begin stocking200 plus gallon mixed malawi tank And 125 gallon predator tank which will hold none other than ,A lone J.D.,a single Convict, One Malawi Hap from my mixed tank and A single Metriaclima Callainos. Once it's actually going I will be sure to post that experience as well.

If you happened to be someone who read this entire post I thank you. and appreciate your feedback and patience. I realize it was Loooong. :fish: And hopefully not too :zz:


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## AlexMckony (Jul 14, 2011)

This fish doing consistently work..


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## beaker99 (Apr 15, 2007)

If you want to go aggresive I say go all the way and add a few convicts and firemouths. I've had a tank like this several years ago and the aggresion seemed to spread out evenly. It does help to have a few tin foil barbs as dither fish. The cichlids always chase them, but can never catch them. I also had a severum in with these guys.


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

master chi said:


> I want to add my experience to the mix.
> 
> I housed in a 55gal. A single Jack Dempsey with Malawi Mbuna successfully in the past.
> 
> ...


 We want to thank you so much. Your story makes me feel so good. We have a long one also I will not get into it though. We are so happy to just hear about someone raising the fish that they love and not passing any judgement. That is all we want is to raise our beloved fish we just love so many.We are 18 tanks and counting. We have gotten some sunshine peacocks and are breeding well. We have even sold a few fish. We are listening and reading and asking and everything together we are doing what works for us. We are sure in the months to come we will go through a lot of changes we had to jail the darn little hero pair tonight for beating up my poor big sweet chocolate, cocoa who is now in the hospital.  He will be ok. We need some Indiana friends who we can share with, It seems a good fish lover is seldom found without knowing everything. We do not and realize this and I am going out on a limb here but I would bet that most started just like us. O k now I am long. lol Thank you again it really means alot!!


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## joshntarri (Jun 23, 2011)

starplayer said:


> Well I see absolutely no need to apologise to anyone on this thread. Everyones replies, mine included were given in good faith. That is what these forums do. If the OP had greater clarity in their question then perhaps we could have helped more. Good point about different usernames though.


 I sometime see the point in different usernames but we are doing this together and we both work. I will apologize for the both of us for the fact that we do get upset with the answers sometimes but, after a break from the site we have also realized that we are not asking our questions right. I will try to be more clear in the future and did not mean to offend any one or come off sounding like anything than fish lovers needing advice. Thanks to all who take the time to lend a thought. Tarri


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