# HELP Is this ICH?



## JenRiehl (Mar 4, 2020)

Hello!!

So I have a newish tank (set up 4 weeks ago) and just today I've noticed white spots on the fins of two of my little guys... And I fish watch A LOT!!!

Could this be ich?

This is a 100 gallon tank... I salted the water last week (treated for 40 gallons)
Today I've salted again (treated for 50 gallons since I just salted) and added stress coat + (treated for 100 gallons)

Not sure if I should have done that. If I should wait. I don't know!!

There are 14 fish total. And only two have these right now. They're all eating pellets and some snack on the zuchinni quite often. Now, my Tropheus cichlid doesn't eat pellets often... really just eats algae off the decorations (got this guy this past weekend and been like that since we brough him home)
I feed them New Life Spectrum Cichlid pellets (small) and give them some mini algae wafers. Blood worms every couple of days. 
Feed twice a day and they eat for maybe about a minute or so... nothing left over - ALWAYS great eaters! 
I have noticed a lot of the other fish rubbing on the gravel, plants. Etc... 
They're all pretty active though.

Their tank is currently at 81°F
Mostly Africans (only 2 Americans- both salvini)
I test the water almost every day...
Reading:
Nitrates about 20ppm
Nitrites about 5.0 maybe 
(I dont know how to get these down!!)
Ammonia 0
Hardness... very hard (300gh)
0 chlorine
Alkalinity between 120- 180 (hard to read)
Ph is about 7.8 - 8.4
I use the strips sometimes (just now because it was faster) but I use the test kit regularly and when compared to the strips, they are extremely close.

What else should I do?


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

https://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The article will help you with the ich, but start changing small amounts of water to get the nitrite down. 20% right now and 20% in the morning. Then maybe 30% tomorrow night and 30% the following morning. Nitrite should be zero.

How did you cycle the tank?

Skip the bloodworms completely.


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## JenRiehl (Mar 4, 2020)

Thanks! I'm reading the article right after this.

Is that not too much of a water change? And with Ich? 
With doing water changes that often. Do I treat the water each time? 
I'm very new to all of this, but want to do it right.

I have been slowly raising the temp of the tank (I have it at 83 now) for the ich, and I do already use a thermometer to get the new water as close to tank temp as I can get already so I dont think water temp will be the issue... but what about the salts and bacteria. I have two filters and we just changed one of the filters Sunday. 
I feel like too many changes (water, temp, etc) will stress them out more... should I treat ich first then lower nitrites?

I'm honestly not sure about how we cycled the tank... we've had most all of the fish for 2-3 weeks (we get about 3 at a time) 
The nitrites have always been high. Like since the first test to today...

And no bloodworms? Like at all, ever? Or for right now... we have been feeding the frozen ones.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No bloodworms at all ever given some of the fish you said you have in the tank.

Nitrites are very toxic and will kill your fish faster than the ich.

Sounds like you might be cycling with fish, so you will have to do daily water changes for possibly the next six weeks.

But right now you need to get the nitrite down below 1ppm so small 2X daily water changes will accomplish that. Yes treat with dechlor every time. Once your tank is cycled, your nitrites will be zero 100% of the time.

I would wait on the salt until nitrates are below 1ppm.


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## JenRiehl (Mar 4, 2020)

Thanks. I'm doing a water change right now.


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## JenRiehl (Mar 4, 2020)

Thanks so much for the info!! I've been doing water changes and testing with the strips before and after the 1st water change and using the master test kit in the evening before I go to bed.

The levels are going down... BUT...The alkalinity seems to be going down as well (below the ideal level) is that ok?
Also - In your opinion what do you think is better? Salt or Meds ... We picked up API Super Ick Cure Powder packets but we also have lots of salt down below. we've slowly been bringing up the heat and it's at 86F steadily today.
I am going to wait to treat it once I get my Nitrites down to 0... which I think we're close to that.

I haven't noticed any other spots on any other fish.. and just one more spot on my Tropheus. They don't seem to be "itching" very much at all...

AND... one more thing... I've had this specific fish in my tank since the 16th of Feb. He seems to have sunken belly maybe? ... below is a pick of him a couple days after we got him... the other two pics are from today. The fin chunk is new... like today or last night new.
He's been eating the pellets... and Zucchini... and algae wafers, and I stopped the blood worms, but he ate those too.
- I don't know what species he is either, so if anyone knows, that'd be wonderful. He was in the wrong tank at the store and she gave him to me because she couldn't identify him. I have my thoughts on what he is, but that's it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Nitrites look better, and pH does not look like it changed much. Get the test kit with test tubes and liquid reagents. Also get a KH test kit. Test your tap water for KH...this will help you know if water changes can cause changes in your pH.

Do not use both heat and meds. It is either meds or heat and salt. I never like to use meds when a more natural option is available and some meds can harm your beneficial bacteria.

Keep checking ammonia and nitrites to be sure they don't go back up...it's odd that nitrites would go up if your tank was cycled so keep an eye on it.


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## JenRiehl (Mar 4, 2020)

Will do. I have the master test kit with the liquid reagents, but it doesn't seem the have the KH test in there, so I'll get one while I'm out tomorrow.

I'll use the salt and heat since I've already gotten the heat going and I agree with your statement. Thanks so much for the info. I'm learning as I go and it's all so much appreciated!

Do you by chance know anything about my other little guy in question? I feel so defeated sometimes with this. I've been wanting to pursue this hobby for years, and I knew it wasn't going to be easy, just throw fish in and go, but man... it seems like one thing after another! I don't have a set up for quarantine yet.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The auratus?

You bought quite a mix for someone who knew it would not be just throw fish in and go.

I have never had ich...a reputable vendor can be helpful to newbies.


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## JenRiehl (Mar 4, 2020)

No, I know the auratus... it's the one circled

I'm thinking it's an Acei, but not too sure. maybe a peacock... they didn't have Acei's at that store and she said they haven't in a long time... it just looks so closely like our Acei when they hang out.

I know I have a mix... That's the biggest learning process for me. We don't know a whole lot when we go and get them and we're very limited with choices around here. The fish combination right now it trial and error at this point. We've been learning more about them once we get them home but sometimes excitement gets the best of people.

Regardless... 
thanks the condescending statement :/ I really thought this forum would be more help than making me feel like a dumb ass...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yellow fins like an acei, but shape is wrong and bars are wrong. I agree it is a mbuna though. However when a fish is not in the best of health and it's colors are subdued and it's stomach is concave they can be hard to ID. Try posting a clear profile pic in the Unidentified forum. Can you isolate him?

Did not mean that as condescending...just trying to understand. The vendor did not caution you? Sometimes they are more interested in making money than ensuring you have a successful tank. Or excitement getting the best of people could be the motivation.

Are you interested in changing your stocking?


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## JenRiehl (Mar 4, 2020)

No, we don't actually have a "real" vendor here. Just the local pet stores, so kinda on my own.

I just got a tank setup for quarantine to isolate him. I'll pick up a heater tomorrow and get him in there.

We are eventually going to get another tank for American's, I think. We have two Nandopsis Salvini (the first fish we purchased due to color/ excitement) and I love their look and personalities, so I want to keep them.

The other fish we have are mostly Mbuna's:
Pseudotropheus Acei
Aulonocara Sp.
Melanochromis Johanni
Melanochromis auratus
Labidochromis caeruleus x 2 males
Pseudotropheus crabro
Aulonocara Baenschi 
Mixed Peacock (not sure yet)
The unidentified little guy.

And then the Jewel (Hemichromis Bimaculatus) which is Zaire, Africa River Region - I read up that they tank well with Mbunas their size

And lastly a Tropheus Moorii (Kaiser II) - From the Lake Tanganyika region... I THINK that one is the only herbivore (which I didn't know until I brought him home because it was unidentified at the pet store so we had very little information. I'm not sure if he's compatible with the others, but we may get a smaller 55 gallon or something for a few herbivorous tank mates. IDK??
He doesn't eat the pellets or any other food... he tried, but spit them out. He only eats on the plants ( I have live plants all over) and decor. I also keep a veggie in there all day. Change out in the mornings.

I'm trying to get all the info and do it all right. Definitely a learning process. 
Not changing stock at the moment and not adding on either... Got to get my bearings straight first.
Thanks again for all of your help.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would expect your stock to continue to give you problems. You have only 3 carnivores...the peacocks. If all the fish are young then you may have 6 months or even 12 before they mature and start to give you trouble. My jewels did not thrive with the Malawi, but they did not die either. Another member who specializes in them has had them do well with peaceful mbuna, but johanni, auratus and crabro are not peaceful.

It's not so much the diet as you can feed them all the New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula 1mm sinking pellets.

It is more the temperament and territorialism and dominance and aggression, which can lead to illness.

PS you might want to avoid buying unidentified fish, especially if you don't want to have to rehome later on.


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