# sudden yellow lab death...



## Ruthiebaby88 (Jul 29, 2010)

Something strange happened the other day. I have a 55 gallon with a hang on back filter. I did not check my parameters but they are usually good with a pH of around 8. I intend to do a 75% water change weekly, but it usually ends up being every other weeks - or occasionally longer than that so at times nitrates can get up a little bit. The tank has been running for 2 1/2 years. I have around 17 mature cichlids and multiple small babies, 6 catfish and a pleco.

The other day I changed the water as usual and right after I noticed a large yellow lab mix looking stressed. She was sitting on the bottom panting like she couldn't get enough air. Later I noticed she was hovering around the top as though trying to suck air from the top. The next day she was balanced on her tail in the sand in a plastic plant with her body completely vertical - still looking stressed. The next day she was dead floating on top.

The part that is strange to me is that none of the other 20 or so fish acted unusual at all after the water change. I have lost a couple of large yellow labs over the past 6 months - but the different is that they were beaten up with chewed fins so I assumed that it was a tank aggression problem. It has been awhile since I have culled the population and their are probably too many mature males in there right now. The fish that died recently looked perfect though except for the panting and the stressed out look.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are your test results? She could have died from ammonia, nitrites or nitrates even though the other fish are fine. There is always one that is the first to go.

Or she could have become used to the high toxins and the sudden fresh water could have shocked her to death.

Or you could have bloat working it's way through your tank (beaten/chewed fish dying a couple over six months). Bloat will keep going like that until all your fish die unless you treat it. People think the illness is gone when a couple weeks/months pass without a death. Now maybe the fish don't even have to be harassed.


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## Ruthiebaby88 (Jul 29, 2010)

That's interesting, I did assume that if 1 fish died - and the other's all seemed healthy, that it was not an infection that caused the death.

The fish that died showed some symptoms like panting, reclusiveness and loss of appetite - but none of them actually looked bloated or swollen. We also had a large black and white stripe female who was looking sickly and beat up for a few days a couple of weeks ago. I turned the temperature of the tank down to 76 from 78, thinking it might reduce aggression and she recovered.

I have been feeding pellets from an autofeeder for some time. More recently we started giving them a daily snack of flakes. I just shake the container over the tank a few times in the morning. We have noticed a lot more baby fish surviving when we do this so we thought it was good, since they must have been starving in the bottom of the tank before - but I wonder whether we are overfeeding.

We do enjoy seeing the babies grow up though so I hate to stop giving them the flakes. I think the pellets generally get eating by the bigger fish before they get to the bottom, so the babies would be left dining on rock algae - or the occasional algae wafer. I usually put 2 algae wafers in at night hoping that the big mbuna will be sleeping and the catfish will get to eat.

Is there a definitive way to check for bloat?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

A fish with bloat does not eat and has white or clear thready feces (instead of thick, food-colored feces).

So you check each fish daily to be sure it eats and has normal feces.

If not, treat the tank with metronidazole and end the epidemic. I don't think the flakes are a problem.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Another possibility here and something you already alluded to: aggression. Sometimes directly after a water change you can have a sudden 'bump' in aggression. You won't always see ripped fins or other external injuries--sometimes the injuries are internal and you'll notice a previously healthy fish be suddenly stricken as you have described.

It may be time for you to make some changes in the stocking of your tank. Your fish are going to be much more susceptible to bloat and other ailments with ongoing aggression. Some aggression is 'okay' in a cichlid tank, (for instance a few quick chases around the tank or one fish will temporarily, talking a day or two, claim a large portion of the tank), but it you're seeing fish that look 'beaten up' and 'sickly' then it's time to do something about it.

Also: you've got a fair number of fish in that tank which is okay but water quality can go down hill much faster in a heavily stocked tank. If you do find that you've left the water change go for more than a couple weeks, (I'm definitely guilty of that), try doing several smaller partial water changes spaced a few hours apart rather than one large 75% water change.

Robin


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## Ruthiebaby88 (Jul 29, 2010)

thanks!


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## Ruthiebaby88 (Jul 29, 2010)

Ok so I checked the parameters and was surprised to find the nitrates at 40 even though I had changed thewater a week ago. I suppose I have been feeding too much flake food - we have been trying to feed enough so that it gets down to the babies in the rocks so I will have to cut back on that.

In further drama, my brother came home to find my favorite female yellow lab flopping on the floor with the cats batting at it. It's amazing it managed to get out of the tank since there is just a 2*3" hole for the autofeeder and then a space cut for the filter. I did catch a kitty on top of the tank dipping his paws into the water once but I never thought they could catch anything through that tiny hole.

We don't know how long the fish was out of the water. Today the fish is swimming near the air curtain looking weak and haggard. Her tail is frayed, but the other fish seem to be leaving her alone. Poorfishie!


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## Ruthiebaby88 (Jul 29, 2010)

I did a 75% water change after checking the parameters - I filled the tank right up to the.lid, perhaps this is a good reason not to fill the tank so full?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Better to fill the tank but cover all the holes. I've had fish jump out even 1/2" holes.

Maybe she was being chased (frayed tail) and shot right out of the tank. Do you have aggression issues?


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## Ruthiebaby88 (Jul 29, 2010)

I may have some aggression issues. I hadn't lost a fish in a couple of years - until the past 6 months I've had 3 large yellow fish die. With the first one I assumed it was probably a male - who had been beaten up due to too many mature males in the tank.

The fish who was found out of the tank is making a miraculous recovery as far as behavior is concerned - she is swimming around with fins spread out acting confident again. Now she shows a big red area on one side though. I'm thinking it is from her fall or her minutes out of the tank with the cats batting at her -though I didn't notice it the first couple of days. She has been spending a lot of time hiding in the rocks, but comes out to eat and swim around sometimes.

Perhaps I need to purge some fish as several babies are now mature size, I hate to do it though as I'm shopping for a larger tank.


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