# Is this an Acei?



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

The fish shown below have Ich so pardon their haggard condition.

So I bought three fish that I thought appeared to be Acei. I live In Mexico and selection here is very poor. If you see a fish that resembles a certain species, its probably as close to "pure" as you are going to get.

Got home and realized one fish looks different. It has bars that can get pronounced quite easily. Main body is much lighter in color, sometimes a pale purple, sometimes looks more light powdered blue. The other Acei(?) are always a very dark purple, no bars that I can see. But all three share the same yellow color fins. I can't figure out if their head shape are the same. None are feeling particularly great, so hard to get them to show finnage.

Anyway, I am trying to build a stock of Acei, Yellow Labs, and Rustys. Does this particular fish look like it may be the same as the other two? Should I return it or can I keep it for added variety?

Thanks!










Next to another one. Is the other one at least mostly Acei?










Closeup of one of the other two:


----------



## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

what are you doing to treat the ich? I saw you added some rusties earlier today, i would not add any more fish until you get this disease cleared up.


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

Rusties are separate for now in quarantine. Purchased them because if I didnt, I would never find them again... Anyway, Ich tank has increased temp (86 deg) and salt. I started to use copper drops but likely won't continue. Thankfully, the fish seem to be improving quite well.

Any thoughts on the above fish?


----------



## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

the one looks like an acei at the bottom you will need someone else to id for certain though.


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

To those who may know, could mystery fish maybe be a labidochromis mbamba?


----------



## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

The one in the background of the second pic and the one in the 3rd pic are both definitely acei (or at least mostly, anyway). The mystery fish looks more like a young Cynotilapia zebroides (Jalo Reef) or (Likoma) to me than it does Lab. "mbamba" - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1734. There are lots of blue-barred mbuna out there with yellow fins, though, and they look pretty similar when young. It sounds like finding a pure species of any type is uncommon there, and especially since this one was mis-identified originally, it might be a hybrid.

As for keeping it with your labs, acei and rusties, keeping a single fish of any type, especially a male without females of his own, can lead to fighting and cross-breeding. You could give it a shot, but I'd suspect you'll end up needing to remove him at some point.

Good luck getting that ich cleared up and nursing your fish back to good health!


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

Wow, you seem spot on, nmcichlid-aholic with the Jalo Reef guess. Those look just exactly right, moreso than the likoma.

Three species in a 55 gal was kinda pushing it, huh? Guess going back for another couple ones of those isn't recommended. ;-)

Thanks for the helpful reply!


----------



## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Personally, I Would Take The Acei Back And Keep The Yellow Labs, Rusties And Jalo Reefs Instead. The Acei Get Pretty Big For A 55, And While They Probably Won't Be An Issue As Far As Aggression Goes, They Would Just Do Better In A Larger Tank (Like A 75 Minimum). I Also Like The Idea Of The Jalo Reefs Instead Of Acei Because Then You'll Have A Species With Some Barring Rather Than 3 Solid Colors. And Yes - All 4 Together In The 55 Would Be Too Much, In My Opinion - Especially Considering How Big The Acei Get.


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

nmcichlid-aholic said:


> Personally, I Would Take The Acei Back And Keep The Yellow Labs, Rusties And Jalo Reefs Instead. The Acei Get Pretty Big For A 55, And While They Probably Won't Be An Issue As Far As Aggression Goes, They Would Just Do Better In A Larger Tank (Like A 75 Minimum). I Also Like The Idea Of The Jalo Reefs Instead Of Acei Because Then You'll Have A Species With Some Barring Rather Than 3 Solid Colors. And Yes - All 4 Together In The 55 Would Be Too Much, In My Opinion - Especially Considering How Big The Acei Get.


That's not a bad idea, and one I'm seriously considering. Only problem is I have no clue if I will ever find either acei's or Jalo Reef's again. I lucked out with the Rusty's and Yellow Labs are everywhere. This weekend I will be in Guadalajara so I can check out a few fish stores. Hopefully one of them will have either one of those species. I'd love to find more Jalo Reefs. I'm 95% sure that's what that guy is. As he's feeling better he's getting quite bold with the markings and colors. Body turns almost aqua, stripes almost black and solid yellow top and back fin. So really pretty sure it's a young male Jalo. Pretty excited about him and hoping to find some girls. If so I do think I will swap out the Acei.


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

Update!

So I desparately want to keep the little probable Jalo Reef Afro. 99% sure now thats an accurate ID as he gets more color each day. Here is today:










So I need some girls to make him happy! Im not holding put too much hope. Today I went back to where I got him, and there were several kinda similar ones. I pulled up google images of female Jalo Reefs and picked three of the closest. Again, these have a high likelihood of having a mix to them. Anyway, up for scrutiny is exhibit A, B and C. Please let me know asap if I even picked Afras. So hard to tell with the plainer fish.

Exhibit A: 
In case it is hard to see from my iPad photos, this fish is skin color with a slight pale blue and yellow sheen, depending on how you look. Top fin is mostly yellow, but blue sheen photographs.



















Blurry pic, but shows fish A with the male following behind:










Onto Fish B:
Fish B is similar, only looks slightly... Dirtier.



















Fish C is lighter, almost like fish A, but has a slight more yellow sheen:



















Honestly, how did I do? Thanks!!

Oh, and before anyone asks about the new fish not being quarantined, as these came from same tank a few days a part they were added to my tank I am heat treating with added salt.


----------



## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

A is probably a Labidochromis hybrid, and C may be the same. They also remind me somewhat of a Kenyi hybrid. I think that are highly likely hybrids.

B is a possible match for your male that seems a lot like a Jalo Reef Afra. Females will just be dull versions of the male, with faint bars, grey-blue body, faint yellow in the dorsal. No yellow in the body.


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

Thanks for the reply, noki. That stinks though. Could you tell me what looks wrong in fish A and C? I am having a hard time telling them apart from B. In person though, B is the same size as the male. The other two are a little larger and maybe more chunky? What else doesnt look right?

Also, would it be okay to keep this male with just one female for awhile? Theres no telling when or if I will find any others.


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

The more I look at them, the more I am beginning to get it. Fish B just looks identical to the male, aside from the coloring. I am guessing they are siblings. But I still cant put my finger on whats off with fish A and C.

Also, the jalo male and fish B have the same chill, slow demeanor. Fish A and C havent stopped moving and are as hyper as my crazy rustys. Fish B and the male jalo are much more calm.


----------



## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

I think the point that noki was making (and that I agree with) about fish A & C is that they are showing too much yellow in the body, and if you look carefully you will notice that their mouths are shaped differently than the male (best way to describe it is their mouths are more pointed, not as blunt as your male and fish B). The slight blue sheen on A makes me think it might be a male, too, so just keep an eye out for fighting between them. Keeping only a pair (one male & one female) will probably be alright short term, but as the male matures over the next 4-6 months or so, you'll probably need to get him some more females. You shouldn't need to do it tomorrow, though, so be patient and keep looking. Maybe you can talk to the LFS people about ordering some in for you on one of their next orders?


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

Wow, the differences in head or mouth shape is way too hard for me to distinguish. I do see the color difference in person, fish B looks kind of colorless or a dull grey where the other two do have a light colored sheen to them. But then I get more confused when I search for images of Jalo females as many do appear to have a faint color to their bodies. Fish B does have a black spot on its dorsal fin. I wonder whats up with that.

I may have to ask for them to special order, if they even do that.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

How positive are we that that little male is a cynotilapia? I made the mistake of searching the net and found a couple metriaclima "red top zebra" that have the exact same markings.

I just want to make sure that I have the lfs order the correct fish.

Thanks!


----------



## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Manzana said:


> How positive are we that that little male is a cynotilapia? I made the mistake of searching the net and found a couple metriaclima "red top zebra" that have the exact same markings.
> 
> I just want to make sure that I have the lfs order the correct fish.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, they look similar. The Red Top Zebra is a bigger fish, the dorsal is more reddish orange than yellowish. The Cynotilapia generally has more attractive barring, but then the Metriaclima can also be very nice. Yes, they are hard to tell apart when juveniles or females. The head, dorsal fin color, and barring on yours do look more like the Cynotilapia. But you cannot really be sure if the fish is pure, especially with juveniles.

If you can order Cynotilapia Jalo Reef "Afra", go for it, it's a really attractive fish, that is not violently aggressive. But you must understand that the fish are variable in intensity of color, and only a dominant male shows full color.


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

Fish B got p'd off and suddenly looked like this:










Does this mean it is likely a male?


----------



## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Manzana said:


> Fish B got p'd off and suddenly looked like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, not necessarily - females can turn up the intensity of their barring when stressed (angry/afraid/dominant), too. Actually, the fact that it's bars got darker but no additional color showed (like blue on the head/jaw or more yellow in the dorsal) indicates, to me at least, that it probably is a female. Don't worry about the black spot in the dorsal - it's common and should eventually go away.

As for certainty that your little male is a Jalo Reef, it's like I said originally - that's what it looks the most like right now, but young ones are hard to tell apart, and especially since it was mis-identified when you got it, it may not be pure. I agree with noki, though - if you like them enough to go through the trouble and it's possible, have some special ordered. I think they'll be a good fit in your tank with the labs and rusties. And, if you trust the source, you'll have a known example to compare your existing male to. If he turns out to be something different, you can rehome him and you'll still have some Jalo Reefs. If you have them order unsexed juveniles, you should get around 8 - that way you'll be sure to get some females and you can keep the best looking male you end up with and rehome the rest.

By the way, I think your tank looks really nice - would you mind posting a full shot of it?


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

nmcichlid-aholic said:


> No, not necessarily - females can turn up the intensity of their barring when stressed (angry/afraid/dominant), too. Actually, the fact that it's bars got darker but no additional color showed (like blue on the head/jaw or more yellow in the dorsal) indicates, to me at least, that it probably is a female. Don't worry about the black spot in the dorsal - it's common and should eventually go away.
> 
> As for certainty that your little male is a Jalo Reef, it's like I said originally - that's what it looks the most like right now, but young ones are hard to tell apart, and especially since it was mis-identified when you got it, it may not be pure. I agree with noki, though - if you like them enough to go through the trouble and it's possible, have some special ordered. I think they'll be a good fit in your tank with the labs and rusties. And, if you trust the source, you'll have a known example to compare your existing male to. If he turns out to be something different, you can rehome him and you'll still have some Jalo Reefs. If you have them order unsexed juveniles, you should get around 8 - that way you'll be sure to get some females and you can keep the best looking male you end up with and rehome the rest.
> 
> By the way, I think your tank looks really nice - would you mind posting a full shot of it?


I can not thaank you enough for taking the time to educate me on these fish. I truly do appreciate it! Here is a photo of the tank in its current state. I have to replace all the rocks as I made a newbie mistake and added methyelene blue to it. So they are a dark navy blue. Anyway, the whole thing is a work in progress.


----------



## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

blue looking fish with the yellow top is a Cynotilapia zebroides (Jalo Reef) female


----------



## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

good picture of a female right on the website http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1733 look at the female help you know what to look for in store


----------



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

pfoster74 said:


> blue looking fish with the yellow top is a Cynotilapia zebroides (Jalo Reef) female


Thanks, both that pic and the female in the species profile look like my mystery fish B. Im feeling hopeful.


----------

