# Help: ID needed. SA/CA



## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

My friend works for a place that's closing down & she knew that I'm into Cichlids, so she brought this one home for me to take.
From the looks of it my 1st guess would be a Amphilophus labiatus/Red Devil.
Similar shape body & mouth, seems to be Leucistic(another plus for me  ) although a see a little dark blotches around the forehead it's quite light & quite possibly could be the brain.
I'm under the impression that it's a female but it could be too early to tell.
It's around 1.5-2.5 inches(give or take).
I'm not really a noob but am not even close to be considered an expert so I ask all you experts to lend a helping hand/fin & help me ID & sex this fish.

She's only been in this tank for a few hours.



Here with my con who likes to challenge her.



It/she's more orange/red in person & there's red in the fins as well, the pix kind of make her look drab. Not really a vibrant orange/red but kinda of a creamsicle color.
The eyes are more red than in the pix as well.

Sorry for the quality, it's hard to take pix after "lights out".

Thank in advance.


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## ibr3ak (Jan 4, 2008)

Your guess is probably as good as any, looks to be a red devil, maybe midas.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Yeah those are the 2 I think most resemble this fish.
Any opinion on the sex?

Thank for the reply.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Way, way, way too small to sex. Try again when it's about 4-5".


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

I was afraid that size would be an issue in sexing this fish.
Do you think all the chasing from the con will tame him/her, or will it bring out the beast?
I don't see any tears or nips fins. This fish can really move on a dime.
It faces the con head to head but when ever the con comes from behind it spooks him/her.
The con is being a con & is constantly tests this fish.  
I wouldn't call this fish's behavior skittish but more aware of it's tankmates.
On a side note. The color has improved over night. 

Thanks SK.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

I notice the vent/"poopshoot" being pointier does this make it more likely it's a male?
I know on my females it's more round.

"He's" looking better today,showing more gold tones & better reds on the fins.
"He's" also quite a bit more feisty since removing the dominant female con, "he's" chasing the smaller cons around every now & then.
"Big mama blue" still acting as the peace keeper.


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## Addesyn (Jul 1, 2009)

Well of course, it's hard to tell being a juvie but if I had to throw a guess out there I would say male


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Little update.
"His" true colors are starting to show now that he's settled in.



I"ll add more once I resize & upload them.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Can a mod move this to the CA section?
I don't want to make a new thread if I don't need to.
If not I'll make a new thread.

TIA.


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## a7oneal (Dec 30, 2004)

I'll move it at your request.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Thank you *a7oneal*.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

can you get a side profile picture? I'm trying to distinguish between RD/Midas and Flowerhorn


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Hey gage, you think there's a possibility this may be a Flowerhorn?
Wow I never knew they came in this color variation.  
Your the pro, so I "ll count on you to determine what this fish is. :thumb:

Here's a few side profile shots.





& a close-up/headshot's.



I got a few more shots today but may battery is depleted.
I upload a few in the next coming days.

I noticed that he's growing quite fast, he's catching up to my cons.
He's a little beast, always messing with the girls, I moved most of the girls out but left one con in just so he has someone to chase/ keep entertained.

Thanks for the help gage.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Looks like my RD/Midas when he was little. :thumb:


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

The red around the gills certainly makes me wonder, but the original pic certainly looks like nothing other than a midas/RD.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

I wouldn't say 100% that it is either yet, but the red around the gills is usually caused by the A. trimaculatum gene in there somewhere

a Faded flowerhorn can look jut like the first picture you posted.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

On the 2nd day in the tank I noticed his lips were a little on the black side.
That's all disappeared now.
Never thought I'd have a Flowerhorn. That's something I didn't really think about.

Either way I'm fine with the result.
I got what I thought was a colorless RD/Midas, now it's coloring up quite nicely & it's possible it may be a flowerhorn.

As long as it will be big & mean it's all good. 
He's already mean now I just have to get him big, which he seems to be doing quite fast.

Thanks for the input guys, you guys are all pros in my books.

If anyone else wants to chime in please do so.
TIA.


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

I would like to chime in that is a nice looking fish there! I know what you mean I like them tough, and with a big hump. I'm sure you'll have him bulked up in no time.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

I hope he'll be big like fedor.
I just gave him a little shrimp. 
I'm giving him Hikari Cichlid Excel, @ first he didn't really like it but now he does.
He still prefers Cichlid gold over the excel though. I have to get him to eat his veggies. 
Kids & their veggies eh. :lol:

I remember when you were into bettas, I still have my bettas, & most of what I've learned about bettas was from you. You're a member of TFF right, that's where I first met you.

Thanks lil mama.

I've been researching Flowerhorns & SRT/RT's because of this guy.
The more knowledge the better.(I guess  )


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

the only thing that makes me question flowerhorn or RD/Midas is the red around the gill and the spotting in the fins. of course, both could change with age, hard to say, post when hes 5" (a couple months lol)


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Thanks LG I hope your guy looks like Fedor too. I always feed twice a day, never missing a feeding. That, to me, is what builds a thick solid body, without that over stuffed look. Consistant feedings. I know what you mean about making them eat healthy. My family laughs at me, they say only lil mama would make her fish eat their veggies before getting dessert. As far as the Bettas I think you have me mixed up there. My daughter had a few a while ago. I started out here in the CA part of the forum when I got Fedor for my Bday. As far as the SRT's don't look to much or you'll end up like me ...wanting one sooooo bad! I will get one! :lol:


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm looking to get a 125G so the SRT might be in the plans.
I'm just going to try to figure out this guy 1st.
I have him in a grow out tank to see if he'll be friendlier.
He may need my whole 90G to himself.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Just to throw this out there. when Pat was little, he showed the same pink patch, now you can't see it unless he's sleeping and I turn the lights on while he's still faded looking.
Here's a couple of older pics where it's visible.
















this is a more recent pic but he's colored up quite a bit since this was taken.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I am deffinately not a midas expert, but I thought I read somewhere (probably a post by *Sinisterkisses* that niether midas nor rd's (nor thier mix) will have that patterning in the finnage *Joel's fish* ... but I might be remembering incorrectly.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

You might recall that Pat is a mix of RD/Midas/? . Not a pure fish by any means , but represenitive of a big chunk of whats out there on the market for LFS grade (or lower) RDs and Midas. For all practical purposes the lower grade RDs and Midas are the same fish from what I've seen. Could be some FH in there somewhere to but who knows for sure.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I remember he was a mix, was thinking there was some FH though becuase of the finage spotage ... at least that's what I remember reading somewhere, just can't remember where. I'm old remember. :lol:


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Not the pattern in the fins...the crazy glowing red eyes were questionable to me.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Your probably right about the FH traits , on top of that there's the pink spot too . If he's some odd breed of FH , he's certainly the calmest one I've had :lol: . All two of them.

Oh and you cant be much older than I am, or you wouldn't know how to use this inter netz box thingy.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

SinisterKisses said:


> Not the pattern in the fins...the crazy glowing red eyes were questionable to me.


 That's just because he's evil *Sin*


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

My guy's eyes are red as well.
Is that what made you guys think twice about my guy?


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Now that I've gotten a better look @ Joels fish pix on my comp & not my bold, I've noticed that the markings on the fins are pretty much the same as my guys markings.
The only difference is Mine is more orange in the body & Joels eyes are more all around red.
I find my guys eyes are red on the top half & blue/green on the bottom.

Can I get a more recent pic with the enhanced colors?
Thanks for the pix.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Sure ,I'll try to get some up this afternoon sometime.

The red eyes are a trait that's not exhibited by the pure RDs (as far as I know). Most of the RDs or Midas that are sold at the big chains and some of the less than picky LFS are some sort of Amphilophus hybrid. Could be RD or Midas mixed with just about anything. Hard to say what and the folks selling them don't normally know either.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

I got mine for free so I;m not complaining. :lol: 
Looking forward to those pix.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Here are the new pics. I still haven't got the hang of my new camera so the colors a bit off . He's way more red.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Update: 
I got a little "trigger happy".  
I'm sure most know how it is. 

Here's a few more pix.

    

    

Maybe this will help ID this fish again. :lol:

Still working on getting his "hump/Kok" visible.
Can someone tell me why it's called a "Kok" for FH's, & what does Kok stand for/mean?


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## Gliven (May 5, 2007)

Did you know that word kok means horn?

Thus according to the "To Shue ChaapShing" the Kok in Kwai Kok Shaan referred to the two peaks of the hill that look like a pair of horns.

Found that off a flowerhorn website I remember hearing a different explanation somewhere but it might have been about something else lol.

Oh and Joel your fish is coming around very nicely.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Cool to know...
I guess the name Flowewhorn sound quite a bit better than "Flowerkok".  
:lol:


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

I really like the color on him LG. They grow fast, especially when they are good eaters.

Joel my Midas has that same pearl spotting on his fins and tail as your fish does. When he was younger his eyes where red/orange, more to the red. Now his eyes are bright orange. I feel him staring at me now. Yep, he's watching me type. He as been in one heck of a mood lately, always trying to splash me.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

*Grow Fast!!!* That's an understatement.
He's already outgrown my big female con in just under a week.
I have in my QT tank that faces my grow out tank.
He & my Male con challenge each other,I'm hoping it will bring out the hump/kok in both of them.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm noticing some black on the tips of his fins.
I managed to snap a few pix but they're not that great(but you get the idea).

   

   

I've noticed this before , but not as pronounced as this.
& it usually goes away in a few hour or the next day. So far it's been like this all day.
We'll see the outcome tomorrow.

I can see his hump starting to grow.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

I figured out why he was getting black on his fins.
He was in breeding mode.
1st I noticed his shaking & I thought no way he's too young/small.
Then I noticed him digging a pit.
That was enough to make me realize what was up.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Update:
Now that it's almost been a month he's around 4"(give or take).
Pretty nasty bugger flaring @ me through the glass & @ his reflection, he hasn't tried to bite me yet. I've been trying to hand feed him too.
He always seems like he's "in the mood". I guess it's normal "teenage" behavior.

I'll post pix ASAP.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Ha ha, mine does the same thing, always got some attitude. I think the digging is normal and not necissarily spawning related since mine moves about 5lbs of sand a day. Mine also went through a phase where he got the black spots, but cant say it was breeding related either since he lives alone and hasn't gotten them in a couple of months. Try putting a mirror up to the glass if you want to see some real aggression. I do it sometimes with Pat and he goes bonkers.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Update:

Not the greatest pic but it's show his size.
He's around 5"s now.










Anyone want to take a swing @ an ID?
I'm pretty sure its an male(venting).


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

I would say it is either _Amphilophus citrinellus _or the common commercial _citrinellus/labiatus _hybrid, leaning toward the hybrid. There appear to be characteristics of both species present, but both are also extremely variable in the wild. However, the lips are just too thin for pure _labiatus_.


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