# Pics: Geos, Bolivians, Angels, tetra, shrimp (load warning!)



## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

I have some free time and decided to post some new pictures of my fish. I tried to cover all of the species I keep but didn't quite make it as I didn't want to overload on images. Hope you enjoy. Comments, questions welcome

Ed

Geophagus "tapajos orange head" 
















poor picture but shows male flaring at another male









Microgeophagus altispinosa

Adult male








one of his kids: female at 8 months








her tending the grandkids at 2 days, she is 10 months old here









Pterophyllum scalare









female with wrigglers








male with fry









Hemigrammus rodwayi









Cherry Shrimp


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## fishkeeper93 (Jan 23, 2008)

hi you have some brilliant fish there *** got one queston whats is the dimensions of your tank because *** been wanting the same king of fish and wondered if i could have the same fish in my tank by the way great fish again


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

Nice looking sclarae Ed, I've got some that look very similar only they develope a nice deep golden hue on their foreheads and lose their bars when they're relaxed. My largest male actually has a slight nauchal hump too.

The only geophagus orange head in my harem of 7 that is showing any color looks almost identical to the first pictures you're posting, including his streamers. I wonder how I got them to grow so fast, is their natural environment riverine or lake?


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

*DBS*...Thanks! Good to hear your Geos are developing well. About their natural environment: the Rio Tapajos is a large "clear water" river that feeds the brazilian amazon. The Rio Tapajos, Rio Xingu and Rio Tocantins are side by side (but don't connect), all are large rivers, all "clear water". The Primary tributary to the Rio Tocantins is the Rio Araguaia, so their are "orange head" populations and G. altifrons populations in all three rivers.

*fishkeeper93*...Thanks! Most of the fish are in different tanks. The Geos are in a 75g (48"x18") the bolivians are in 30g (36"x12") and standard 20g tanks, the angels are in 29g, and the shrimp colony is in a 10g.

Ed


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

Ed,

I think a good part of my geo's growth spurts by comparison to regular standards might be attributed to me treating them like discus, with daily 90% water changes - if they're used to growing up in a river rather than a lake it means they are most likely nitrate sensitive fish. Y'know what I mean?


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

DBS...certainly that kind of schedule will benefit the fish. But even wild discus do not require that :lol: But that's another discussion and more power to you for doing it :thumb: For the Geophagus I do 40-50% WC every 5 days or so and that keeps the nitrate below 10. What are your pH, gH and kH? My Geophagus tank is pH 7.2, gH 3, and kH tests between 1 and 2, temp 84.

Ed


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

Ed,

When growing out discus the daily water changes do a huge help - I've learned that through both breeding them myself and other well known breeders, so I apply the technique to most SA's and it always works out.

My pH is roughly 7.8, gH is 7, not sure on my kH.

I keep them at around 83.6 degree's.


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## ginner (May 23, 2008)

Great pics!

You know, I think that spawning pic is one of the clearest I have ever seen for showing the difference between the male and female breeding tubes.

:thumb:


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## fishkeeper93 (Jan 23, 2008)

thnx edburress i wanted the exact fish in a 88gal but i dont think there is enoguh room so i might have to swap some things around


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Awesome pics Ed. Those Bolivians look awesome, great colours.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Ed nice to see some pics bud,

Bolivians are looking good and I like your Angels - I'm not really a fan of keeping them but they are amusing fish and I do think they're pretty cool in appearance. You have some lovely specimens there, how are they with fry care? I might be tempted some day to try them again...

Re water changes - the more the merrier, as long as you take care to correctly match the water again! I found that there wasn't that much difference in daily vs 2-3 WC's in a week (of 50%), but a massive difference in the next jump to once a week WC's. It really doesn't matter as long as you are providing parameter matched water for them. I found my tank had much more stability with two WC's a week.

Even with pH GH KH matched water it is a disruption and everything seems to take a while to re-adjust. Daily water changes are not a problem if you're around to do it each day, but I found that if I had to then leave the tank for a few days I'd come home and the nitrates would be up a bit more than when I'd only done two or three in a week and then left it - the system stabilises itself and with a large daily water change you do remove some of that stability - you become an essential part of that nitrogen cycle... You remove most of the bacterium's food source each day and so when suddenly left to it for for a few days, the colonies have to increase to meet the sudden rise in waste quantity present, even just to the bioload capacity - your biological filtration is based on how much waste is present, with large, daily water changes, that's not as much waste as the bioload truly produces when not constantly diluted (obviously).

It's all about how much you want to put in and how much you expect to get out as a result. Also, how able you are to tend to the fish each day - I used to be a daily WC advocate, until I got my new job, now I'm lucky if I get to squeeze one in each week, my fish are still healthy as ever (plants help).

Judging by the health and condition of Ed's fish, I'd say he's working a good system, one that clearly works for him.... :thumb: The secret to long fin trailers is predominantly soft water, followed by WC's. I've found that since going from 2 to 1 WC a week even in soft water, my Bolivians fin extensions have reduced a small amount (although insignificant it is noticeable.)


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

Yep yep, I wasn't questioning Ed's methods in the least - his fish have always impressed me. I just noted that a lot of people told me it would take almost a year to get my fish to where they're at now in 3 months, and that I attribute their growth to a good healthy diet and daily water changes.

It's how I used to grow out discus, and I would get them to silver dollar size in just about 3 months as well - I believe it's what most discus breeders do, and while I don't find it necessary to do water changes more than once or twice a week for sub adult to adult specimins, I think juvies and fry benefit a lot from daily.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

DirtyBlackSocks said:


> Yep yep, I wasn't questioning Ed's methods in the least -


Sorry bud, I didn't think you were, just adding what I've found from experimenting myself. My comments on Ed's system working well were generically directed at people who may be reading who are new/unfamiliar with the topic, so they don't all start freaking out that their once a week isn't enough :lol:.

I don't think that anyone can argue that frequent WC's do contribute to the growth rate of fish quite substantially and I certainly agree that fry<juveniles (of any species) are at a stage where frequent water changes are essential to their proper development. The best diet in the world won't do much for your health if the environment you live in has intolerable and inhibiting levels of toxicity...

:thumb:

Great work Ed!


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm going to have to test your theory on streamers in lower pH and get myself an RO unit now .

I'm not entirely sure the geophagus will even be able to hatch eggs in waters as hard as mine, any insight to that Ed?


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Not just a lower pH - low KH mate, (not that they're mutually exclusive). :thumb: I'm pretty confident that the degree of hardness has a direct effect on fin extension lengths.

I'm surprised you have a KH of 1-2 and pH of 7 Ed!? I would expect more acidity. My KH is 2 and my pH sits at 6.0 24 hours out the tap - initially from the tap I do see a neutral pH but it drops significantly due to the low KH. When I first got my Geophagus (I do miss them) they had been kept in water with a KH of around 5, pH of 7.5+/- and they had non-existent fin extensions, not long after introducing them to my low ph, low KH water did I start to notice nice development on that front. I also found the colours to be considerably stronger in that lower KH band.

Have you bred the Geo's Ed?


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

I was under the assumption they go hand in hand as well.

I've never really messed around with buffering waters for anything but my discus in order to get them to breed - so this is fairly new to me, but I'd love to see some good streamers on my geo's.

Currently my wild sclarae have about 2-3 inch streamers coming off their tail fins in the waters they have now.


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

Thanks for the comments everyone!

I am glad to see there has been some discussion. I almost only posted pictures of the Geos anyway :lol: because they get the most response.

My water is pH 7.2, gH 3 and kH 2 out of the tap, and sometimes the kH will test at 1. The pH doesn't drop if the tapwater sits and it also does not drop in my tanks. I haven't decided exactly why that is but I am certainly glad it works out that way. I test the pH often and expect it to drop almost everytime but it has not over the last year or so. Years ago the tap water here would drop like a rock down towards 6.0

My dominant males streamers off of his dorsal fin and the caudal fin are about 1" and those on the sub-dominant males are maybe 3/4". The females have pointed fins but do not have extentions. The most notable thing is the length of the pelvic fins. The males are 5.5"-6" TL and their pelvic fins are over 3". Unfortunantly, until I get their 270g set up in 4-5 months, the disputes will probably keep them from developing more than that. The females also have extended pelvic fins but membranes only extend 3/4" or so, and overall are half the length of males.

Blair I have two pairs that breed every 4-5 weeks. The 5th fish presents a problem and for a long time I felt it was a female so I kept it but it was just sub-dominant and was behind the other males. He went through a growth spurt and now is the same size as the dominant male (6") but he does not have a female and has not bred. But his color is so good I cannot part with him! So I am getting a huge tank instead :lol: The fish in most of my pictures is a sub-dominant male, slightly smaller (5.5"), he is the most colorful and the most interactive and will pose for the camera. He is the best parent and they have raised several groups of fry but the other males eventually eat them after the parents stop holding them overnight. The dominant male rules the tank but his female is not a very good parent and the male has to pick up the eggs early (within 36 hours, when the others wait until 45 hours) and then he has to hold them by himself so he can't protect the female and she always loses the fry she takes. If the male picks up initially you can guarantee the spawn will be unsuccessful because the females are so much smaller than the rival males she cannot protect the territory. But if the female picks up initially, like the sub-dominant pair does, the male can then protect her and the fry can survive for up to 4 weeks even with the other males.

I removed 20 fry once to try and raise them artificially and could not get them to last more than a day or two. I frequent the CRC forum and this is a common problem that the fry are difficult to raise during the first days after removing them. So, I haven't removed anymore since and don't plan to until I have their larger tank and adequate room to grow out fry.

*Blair*...about the angels: thanks for the comment, yes I had never had any until I got these 14 months ago. I never liked them at all until I got them and they won me over very quick. They are really brave and energetic, so they are easy to interact with. Their parental skills are worthy off a book :lol: They ate the eggs for their first 10-12 spawns and I had almost given up on them and then they started getting some wigglers but would always eat the larvae as soon as they broke free from their surface instead of spitting them back in the group. Then after 25 or so spawns they got it right and raised maybe 30 fry. They have slowly learned what to do and now I can leave fry with them for over a month and they will lay eggs with them in there and a month ago I actually had three consecutive groups of fry with them at one time! I learned from that though because the older fry picked off the smaller ones within a week or so. But after all that horrible parenting they will raise 300 or so fry now everytime. If you remove the fry they will spawn every 8 days, but if you leave the fry with them to raise they will wait about 2 weeks before laying again.

I have some good video and might add more pictures of the Geos tonight.

Ed


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

Shot a few more pictures last night that show their color well.

Head shot of sub-dominant male (5.5")








Profile shot, same fish








Close-up of flank








Poor shot of stress coloration: darkened vertical bands, darkened abdominal spot, and visible band from spot to gill plate. The later thought to identify "araguaia orange head" from "tapajos orange head" but IMO if thats true there are no true "tapajos" on CF or CRC :? 








I don't shoot this guy often, my dominant male (6"), he does not like the light on my camera and does not pose for me like the other males. He is notably thicker than the other fish and has greater extentions.


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## WNC_Dave (Aug 12, 2007)

Ed
Those Geos Look great. Always liked them, but have never had any. If you need any help moving or setting up the new 270 let me know. I am not far from asheville and would love a chance to see your tanks.

Dave


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

Ed,

I'm thinking maybe my orange heads are aruguaia if the stress spots are a dominant part of the difference in markings - mine only lose theirs once in blue moon - and are a more golden color (though that could be from the lighting) than green at most times.

I'll have to take some photo's for comparison...but what are the major differences between the two outside of that, if any?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Sorry Ed for hijacking your photos. Just on the off chance there are people who have missed photo's of my araguaia. Mostly for *DirtyBlackSocks* so he can compare my araguaia to Eds tapajos. I'm really missing these guys since I sold them.

Dominant, mated male, approximately 12 months old and 6.5 inches TL.









Mated female to dominat male, approximately 4.5 inches TL. Note she hear dorsal fin is rounded and does not taper into a point.









Un-mated sub-dominat male, who ruled over the rest of the unpaired males. And noted fry eater. 6 inches TL.


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks for posting those DeadFish, I'll have to do some comparisons later.


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

*WNC_Dave*...thanks for the comment! Nice to hear from you. Thanks for the offer to help, I am going to South America in December so maybe I will take you up on your offer when I return. I will be setting up 4-6 85g rubbermaid tubs in my basement. Then I will move in January and setting up the 270 and a fishroom. I'll be sure and let you know.

*Peter*...no worries about the photos, anyone can post their Geos here if they want, I don't mind. I have never seen that first picture, your araguaia were beautiful fish, I hate that you had to sell them! but I am sure you're enjoying the Laetacara. I messed around and did not buy the G. altifrons "tapajos" but I am ordering some "true" Satanoperca cf. jurupari this week  Isn't going to friendly with the poor wallet though :lol:

*DBS*...You can post your pics here if you want, for easy comparison with my and Peters Geos. Then everyone can help you compare. Peter was the first to tell me about the band. Thomas Weidner says the "araguaia" display a band that runs from the abdominal spot to the gill plate and that the "tapajos" do not. However, on CF and CRC everyones "tapajos" display the band. I think it is just stress coloration found on both variants. Mine display it during breeding and sometimes during territorial disputes. But that is just my opinion and could certainly be wrong.

Ed


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## LJ (Sep 12, 2007)

I know this thread has become all about the geos, but I just wanted to let you know I'm drooling over the scalare man.


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

*LJ*... :lol: yeah the Geos get most of the attention but thanks for the comment, I do enjoy keeping the scalare :thumb:


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