# BRC=blue ram club



## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

since there is a balvanion club i though id post a blue ram club for all the blue ram keepers


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

Sorry, the BRC acronym has a copyright. 

Try GRC = German Ram Club.


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

I like the idea of a blue ram club...im in!

We need a good acronym though.

MGR - MikroGeophagus Ramerezi (sorry about the spelling)?

DRC - Dwarf Ram Club?

BCC - Butterfly Cichlid Club?

BSC - Bolivians are Stupid Club


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## MidNightCowBoy (May 7, 2007)

naegling23 said:


> BSC - Bolivians are Stupid Club


I don't think our bolivian members are going to appreciate that!


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Alright - I'm in...

Until this last week I was very disappointed with my Blue Rams... Mine are young and therefore not as intensely coloured up as adults and they were extremely shy with very little in the way of personality... I was strongly considering switching back to Bolivians (only because my tank is not large enough to hold both species). I have 1 male and 2 females.

However I made a few changes and the results have been fantastic - I am loving my Blue Rams more each day! I will list my changes below in an effort to help other aquarists get the most out of their Rams (I don't know if one or all of these were the difference maker so to speak).

1). I raised the temp from 79 F to 82 F.
2). I added more dithers (now hove 3x the number I started with)
3). I added some friendly competition 1 Male Apisto Cockatoo.

From what I have read 82 F was the suggested temperature - because my heater was old and finnicky changes often resulted in in big swings... Once set it could hold that temp indefinately, but I opted to switch it for a Stealth heater that I set to 82 and bam the temp is always constant.

The addition of dithers seems like a no-brainer as well... I always had dithers (5 Rummy nose tetras), but I added 10 cardinal tetras and 2 sterbai cories (they can handle the temp - many cories don't do well at this temp). This weekend I plan to add more Sterbais. I think the sheer number of other fish not only coaxes the rams out into the open, but it also reduces the number of 'calm' spots in the tank.

The male Apisto was a great addition in my mind. He is territorial - but not aggressive (probably due to lack of females). He has his area of the tank - which he will share with the male ram, but for whatever reason he won't let the females come in... strange?

I'll try to get some pics of my trio and post 'em here... 1 of my females has really coloured up and looks ready to spawn - unfortunately my male seems clueless and uninterested... The coloured up female has great squabbles with the other female and they do some mock charging and the occassional lip-lock - but the tank is roomy enough that no one gets hurt and no one hides with fins clamped - so I assume a little squabbling is okay.


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

DRC - Dwarf Ram Club <--- can any mods change the heading to that PLZ i like that tital.


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

well anmore joiners??


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## Ilwacotuna (Dec 17, 2007)

Can I join? I have too many of both blues and bolivians. The bolivians are outgrowing the blues and the longfins spawned again. I don't have enough tanks!.


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

sure, anyone with dwarf blue ram can join


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

I got no GBR so I won't join the club BUT,.....I think it is a great initiative!!! :thumb: I do suggest to choose a diferent name becouse this is quit confusing. The specie is known as GBR (German Blue Ram) so maybe this name suits the club,..the GBR-club. Good to see people are enthusiastic abouth your initiative and I hope this club also contributes to knowledge abouth the Microgeophagus ramirezii. They sure are an interesting and stunning specie and enough info to gather abouth their special needs.

Good luck with GBR-club or GRC (German Ram Club) :thumb:


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## shaunpitzer (May 8, 2008)

I'm in. I have one pair and will move them to a 20 L breeding tank soon once I get it planted and settled. My male is in prime plummage and if I knew how to post pictures, i would. Even with my cameraphone I took a great shot of him. Anyone want to take the initiative and rename the club?


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

BSC - :lol:

Blues are lovely fish but when it comes to intelligence they're the blonde of the fish world, don't you know that's _why_ they're so pretty .

I used to have GBR's but I don't any more, however they are very cool fish and I think Illy-d is on the right track with the discussion topic.

You guys can really turn this into something so why not start off by discussing your methods of keeping them, how you've had the most success, what you would recommend to others, what you WOULDN'T recommend, what do you feed them, what are your water parameters, water change regime, whether you tried something unusual and if it was a success or a failure, have you bred them - how did you go about inducing spawning, what were the success rates, in what parameters did you have the most success/frequent spawns etc etc etc - it all adds up to the shared mine of knowledge....

My female (when I had them)









Here they are with some fry:
http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/ ... GBRFRY.flv

I found that the best parameters, or at least those which resulted in the most success (for me), were as follows:

pH 5
KH 2
GH 4
Temp 30C - 86f

I kept them in a 10/15 gallon tank to themselves as they were a strong pair which were incredibly prolific when left to their own devices in this way. If I found the aggression to be increasing (usually about a week into the fry free swimming stage) I would add a few RummyNose Tetra - _Hemmigrammus bleheri_, to the tank.

It is very important to acclimatise the dither fish to the tank in this situation as they will be spending a week or two in water temperatures that exceed what they would normally tolerate. I found the _Hemmigrammus_ to be particularly hardy and they even seemed quite happy in there (metabolism was through the roof so they were eating a bit more than usual), the bright red of their faces a good indicator of their health and the water quality. I would rarely leave them in the tank for more than a few weeks however as it will burn them out in the long run, so once aggression had calmed back down I would remove them to another tank which was better suited to their everyday needs.

Water changes were performed weekly, bi-weekly when inducing spawning, and daily when fry were present. Water changes would be around 50% on average, re-filling with parameter matched water. With fry present and daily water changes it was only necessary to perform 10% changes - this is because we don't want to risk stressing the fry too much.

I had a great deal of success in terms of breeding these fish but I was never in a position to raise their fry - I believe I was breeding my P. taeniatus at the time and so all tank space was chock full. Like the majority, it was not uncommon for the male or female (I found it was usually the female) to eat the fry/eggs, initially they took several practice runs before successfully rearing fry to a couple of weeks free-swimming, but left to their own devices after this the pair would inevitably end up eating them all, every time.

So really to have a strong chance of raising the fry properly, it will usually be necessary to remove them, using a large pipette or turkey baster type implement and then place them into their own, bare bottomed, gently lit tank (if at all - preferably not), parameters MUST be exact in the fry tank - ie fill up the fry tank from the main GBR tank so that there is guaranteed to be no difference in parameters. It is recommended that you give them a good few practice runs to see if they can't pick it up themselves and successfully raise them, so don't edge your bets on spawns resulting in fry, certainly not for the first few attempts.

I fed my Blues on NLS (new life spectrum) as their staple and although not necessary I found it an incredibly strong trigger and catalyst (as with 99% of fish) to supplement their diet with (whole) krill broken up and daphnia when I wanted to really induce spawning.

Spawn sizes would average around 70-100 eggs, out of which 50-70 fry would develop successfully.

That's all I can think of for now. That's my 2c to kick start your new club.

:thumb: 
Blair.


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

First off, sorry I dont have any pictures, I will be working on getting a few shots of mine.

I have had GBR's twice. A few years ago I had a 10gal tank with a breeding (not successfully) pair. After I moved to a new house, the male got sick and died, the female followed shortly after. Since it happened when I moved from an apartment to a house, I could finally get one of those tanks that are too big to move easily. So, my christmas present last year was a 55gal. I was debating apisto, bolivian, and blue rams for the tank, and left it up to what my LFS was going to have.

Of course, who could pass up two pair of wild caught blue rams?

During introductions to the tank, I have had two fatalities. One just never adjusted to the tank, and the other I think is my fault. I noticed it struggling after a water change, and moved it to the hospital tank, but by the time I got it into the tank, it had deteriorated very quickly. It died shortly after getting into the hospital tank. I think it was just stressed about the cleaning I just made it worse, live and learn.

So, I have two males and 1 female in my 55 (I hope to add another female...possibly today, but soon). They share a tank with 1 pair of apisto iniridae, 1 male bitentiata, 1 pair silver angelfish, 10 neon tetras, oto catfish, and 1 BN pleco. I still want to add some corydoras to the tank, and I would like another smaller school of tetras, but I think the tank is pretty crowded as it is, so the tetras are out for the moment. I'll see about the cory's.

The tank is heavily planted, pH 6.5, 50ppm hardness, 80degrees F. I run peat through the filter to bring the pH down, as well as stain the water. I think both the angels and the rams show much better coloration in the slightly darker water.


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

thanks everyone that joined and even if they didnt just post and say hi or sumtin


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

got my female ram.

Now I have two pairs!

I'll keep you posted if any magic happens, but they are all still pretty young.

What would be the age that they even start breeding? I've had them since February, and I havnt seen any spawning or even pairing up behavior yet, and none of them have the look of a mature ram either, so I'm guessing they are still young.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

^awesome naegling! My young rams recently coloured up and looked ready to spawn but nothing actually came of it... I'm encouraged that they are going through the motions but I feel they are still pretty young!

Excellent advice (and photo) Blair! If my rams grow up to be half that stunning I'll be stoked!


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## shaunpitzer (May 8, 2008)

I have a 20L set up and want to know if i could keep two breeding pairs in it with or without a divider, or just go with one pair?


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

Do you mean a 20gal?

If its a 20gal, then you could keep 1 pair in there

if you mean a 20L=~5gal, then you wont even fit a pair in there. You might get 1 ram in a 5gal, but I dont recommend it at all. Those small tanks are much too succeptable to water quality swings which the rams cannon handle.


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## shaunpitzer (May 8, 2008)

It is a 20 Gallon Long. I have it set up so that it can be cut in half with a tank divider if need be, but both halves have wood with java fern and java moss, slate, and some other plants as well as a sponge filter on both sides. It is cycled and I am ready for breeding, but was just wondering if I have enough space for 2 breeding pairs.


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

you might, but I would recommend giving 1 pair the full 20.

a pair in a 10 is possible, and some people use them for breeding, but your going to eventually need to remove the female to save her life.


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## shaunpitzer (May 8, 2008)

Do I have to remove the female? I thought both parents raised the fry.


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## ShawnStanley (May 19, 2003)

I just added 5 blue rams to my 30 gallon tank -- I have a couple questions:

1) What are stress bars?
2) I bought them for 8.99 a peice - which I thought was alittle rediculous as they are barely an inch.
3) When I first added them 3 of them are sitting on the bottom moving there fins -- the other two are not moving but are in the mid water range just chillen (is that bad)?

Thanks for the help.


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## ShawnStanley (May 19, 2003)

I added my 5 Blue rams about 2 1/2 - 3 days ago and I I now have two pairs. 1 of which has already laid eggs! I was lucky enough to catch the last 10 mins of the spawn and it was quite interesting to watch.

I have relatively soft water straight out of the tap, and I keep the temperature around 81-82 degrees. What is the best way to keep the fry alive when they hatch? I don't have an extra tank but I would really like to keep this batch. I have 2 cory's and 7 tetras along with 3 other rams in the tank. It is a 30 gallon long (3ft wide).


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Hi Shawn ^congrats on the spawn... Here's the thing with community tanks and breeding: without a second tank to remove the fry to you are leaving everything up to the parents... Not necessarily a bad thing, but you have no way to guarantee survival of the fry.

On a side note I went away for the weekend and came back to find that my male blue ram had died... There is little evidence of his having ever existed at all - just a spine 

I performed a 30 - 40 percent water change the day that I left (I used treated water, 1 to 2 degrees F cooler than the tank)... Everything (equipment wise) was running and I hadn't noticed any signs or symptoms of either illness or dangerous aggression before I left - and I don't see any evidence with the other fish now either...

I'm probably going to hold off on getting another male for now and wait until I get my new tank set-up etc.... Hopefully this death will be an isolated incident...


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## shaunpitzer (May 8, 2008)

How important or necessary is it to add dither fish. With one pair of spawners, what should I add? How about with 2 pair of spawners? This is a 20 Gal long.


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## ShawnStanley (May 19, 2003)

I wouldn't say it is that important. My rams just ignore the tetras in my tank unless they get to close to the eggs or in their territory they chase them out. I did notice that it when I introduced the tetras it made the rams alittle more active (which may just have been that they were so new to the tank). I have a 3ft tank with 2 pairs of rams and all they do is eat, fight, and poop. The fighting seems harmless as I don't see any injuries but they do it all day. And this is in a heavily planted tank.


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## Britishbookbug (Dec 1, 2007)

I'm interested in learning more about German Blue Rams. I bought a pair (so lucky!) last Saturday. I'm new to GBRs. I've tried a couple of times before, but they died within two days. This time, I think I have the parameters right. At least, based on what I've read here today. They appear to be quite attached to each other. Their colors are good too. I watched them for a while in the LFS to find the pair. They are eating well and looking content. I am concerned about the 50% water changes. My water in the tanks always ends up at about 6, but it comes out of the tap at 7. How do I reduce the pH before I put it in? Do I have to use chemicals or will it naturally go lower if I just leave it out over night?


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

Re: Dithers with rams

I recommend them. GBR's are skittish little fish, the addition of some dithers will make them much more secure, and they will be more active. If its just the rams in the tank, they are going to spend most of the day hiding.

Re: Water changes

There are several ways to bring the water pH down: Chemical, using buffers, I know of one that buffers the water at 6.5 and removes the ammonia. Natural, using driftwood or peat. The peat and driftwood will slowly bring the pH down, but more in the 6-6.5 range. You can either add the peat directly to the tank in the filter, or let a bag of it float in your water bucket prior to your water change. I always recommend letting the water sit out to get rid of any chlorine. If you let it sit out a couple of days, the pH may drop slightly, but it depends on too many factors to be sure.

Now, about your adding pH 7 water to a tank of 6...this depends on the water hardness, or buffering capacity of the water both in the tank, and the water being added. If you are adding very soft water at pH 7 to buffered pH 6 water, you will end up at about 6. 
I would also be a little scared about 50% water changes for gbr's. They are delicate little fish, and the sudden change in water conditions could be a little tough on them. Maybe a 20% water change done twice as often would be better for them? That way, you wont see as many peaks and valleys in your tank conditions, and things will be a little more stable.

Re: GBR's dying

There are several reasons, one could be tank conditions. They like soft, acidic, warm water, with no nitrites, ammonia, and very little nitrates. So, if one or more of these parameters are not right, you may have problems. I noticed you pay attention to pH, good, but your carbonate hardness is important too, that could be the cause. Another reason is shock. I currently have almost ideal conditions in my tank, I have four happy, healthy rams in a 55. I have had to buy 6 (healthy wild caught stock) in order to get 4. Sometimes, they just never adjust. Sometimes, there will be too many males and one will get killed. The final reason is the stock itself. Some ram stock (esp. from asia) are just not healthy. unhealthy fish dont live very long.


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## Britishbookbug (Dec 1, 2007)

Thank you for your help. I changed about 25% of the water today. I have very soft water which always ends up as a 6 pH in my tanks. It comes out of the tap at 7pH. I decided to lower the pH in the water with a chemical first before adding to the tank. I tested the water for pH before I put it in the tank, so I now know how many drops of pH down I need for my bowl. The rams seem fine. The ammonia and nitrites are at zero. The nitrates seem to be between 5 and 10. The tank is well planted with a couple of caves, sandy bottom and one flat rock. Floating plants too. They should have everything that they like in there! I've had them for a week and they have survived, so maybe they're over the adjustment period. I hope so. Their companions in the tank are 4 harlequin rasboras, 1 otto, and 1 flying fox. The rams also seem happy with each other. They stay close to each other most of the time.

Thanks again for the advice.


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## Hubbynz (May 10, 2008)

I am thinking of setting up a tank for a pair of these babies

I'm thinking a 40litre with amazon swords, driftwood sand/gravel??? and some corys and a bristlenose????

any advice?


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## fishlids (May 5, 2007)

I'm planning on getting them soon, I'm really excited about getting them, they're absolutely stunning fish.

So I'll be visiting this often for some tips


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## carpio77b (Feb 28, 2008)

My GBR setup:

Specs:
30 gallon
80 deg. F
2/3 Peat 1/3 carbon in the HOB Filter (Tetra 30 on low setting)
Lace rock - 20 lb.
Driftwood - 2 big branches
2 clumps java moss, 6 java fern, big bundle cryptocorne, very big bundle sativa?, some little floating plants, 1 small anacharis
Water changes (2/3 tap, 1/3 RO) every two weeks
(2) 24 watt T5HO fluorescents
Water conditioner - Prime
Ferts. Fluorish Excel
Food NLS 1 mm everyday and blood worms once a week, occasional home hatched brine shrimp
Had a DIY CO2 Reactor, but took it off for lack of results

Stocklist:
1 pair GBR
1 male betta
1 dwarf honey gourami
1 hillman loach
1 bamboo shrimp
2 african frogs
6 rummynose tetras
5 white cloud tetras
3 cory sterbai
1 cory similus
2 cory panda
4 otocinclus

Results:

The GBR pair have never bred but show mating characteristics. The male is bigger and dominant over the female but not violently aggressive. The male has previously killed a male GBR and 2 BN Plecos. The GBRs are beautifully colored as a result of the soft, acidic blackwater environment. The Peat in the filter does the trick if you dont mind tea colored water. I feel the darker water looks more natural and all my fish seem to thrive in it. The interaction between the betta and male GBR is quite entertaining as the betta flares it's gills and the much faster male GBR chases the betta into hiding. The female GBR takes out her aggression on the dwarf gourami.
I have my filter set to just more than a trickle and only do water changes every 2 weeks. This is due to the tank being so heavily planted that nitrates are taken up quickly. Last water change, there was very minimal detritus even after 3 weeks. I could probably turn the filter off and be okay, but I like a little bit of water movement.
All fish are beautifully colored and relatively peaceful. Otos take care of most of the algae, but I leave the back pane of the tank covered with green and reddish brown algae instead of a background. I'm thinking of adding some paradise fish for activity in the upper region of the tank, but have concerns about the betta and paradise fish fighting.

Anyway, I hope this testimonial serves as my entry into the GBR club


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## Akere (Jun 29, 2008)

Hi all,

I'm new to the aquarium hobby, kingpoiuy is helping me setup a tank. 
I would LOVE to get some German Blue Rams! So I'll definitely be trying to glean all the info I can!

Right now we have a 75g tank, that we would like to get up and running in the near future. (We're redoing the floor first, taking out the carpet and putting some vinyl down.)

We're looking at putting sand down as the substrate, and we've bought a sump tank....

That's all we have so far.... lots to do! lots to read!


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## rickztahone (Nov 5, 2008)

this is the German Blue Ram club and there are no pics of blue rams :-? . i have 4 pairs of longfins coming in this week and i wanted to see pics of blue rams that other members have. they will be going into my 125g community tank and i hope it's big enough so they do not step on each others toes, lol


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi well I guess *** gotta be a member now... I was debating putting anything else into my 120 gallon geo/angel tank and decided if anything it would either be more geos or rams, but only if I could find really nice ones that were not Asian... Well my lfs came thru with some beauties. On Sat. I choose 2 definite males and 2 possible females or very young males.. I put them in my plastic qt bin... about 15 gallons.. its clear plastic food grade with a sponge filter, heate set at 84, dw, xmas moss and some large flat rocks.. I thought for about 2-3 weeks qt.. Today I discovered that I do indeed have two pairs and each female has spawned on a flat rock on either side on the tank... Sorry no pics as it's almost impossible to take pics thru the plastic.. There must be something in my water I guess :lol: :lol: :lol: ..
Anyways we'll see how they do and whether everything gets eaten or not.. I don't know if they spawned today or yesterday because between the plastic and the small eggs it's hard to see them.. Gonna have to start reading some breeding threads I guess.. :lol: :lol: ..
They are really beautiful fish.. Blair love the pics.. it's gonna be interesting to see how they act in the big tank.. Can't wait to see pics of everyone's rams opcorn: opcorn: Sue


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## KoalaBear (Jan 13, 2009)

I have also recently joined the club... I got my hands on 6 impressive little ones. I was a littlw upset when they got here because they were so washed out. I was hoping it was just the shipping... Which it was. Within a couple hours in the tank they started to color up a little.

Much to my surprise these very young and small guys came into breeding colors and I ended up with 2 pairs spawning. The efforts were not successful (I think the tetras finally got the eggs despite the best guarding efforts)...

I have not had the best of luck getting pictures of them... Hopefully I will be able to get some soon.

Tank conditions:
pH is around 6.8
Temp 83 degrees
Multiple pieces of driftwood with some java fern on them and a coupe swords that are struggling at the moment

Other tank mates (subject to change shortly)
A school of lemon tetras
A school of gold tetras
6 Angels (very young... Basically growing out for a friend)
2 L129s (when they get out of quarantine)


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## Hubbynz (May 10, 2008)

Ok this thread needs some pics so here is a couple of my prize blue rams hes about 3cm long

Male Blue Ram


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## klumsyninja (Aug 14, 2008)

Here's a pic of my 1st cichlid ever.

I was rather new at fish keeping and kept him alive for about a year.. I don't keep any Rams anymore but I think I will again some day. I love GBRs, they're gorgeous and so feisty.

Male GBR.

RIP


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi... Great pics everyone.. =D> =D> Well the eggs from one spawn got eaten one day and those from the other spawn the next day.. but they were in a qt plastic container.. I'm just happy I got two pairs that spawned.. I put them in the big tank (120gal) with the orangeheads and baby angels and they are doing just fine.. They sure are feisty little buggers :lol: :lol: I thought it would take a few days for them to adjust so I fed everyone right after I put them in the tank to take everyone elses attention away from the rams. The rams immediately came to the front pushing everyone out of the way so they could be part of the feeding frenzy..no wallflowers in this group :lol: :lol: . So far they are really turning out to be a fun addition to the tank.. In a week or so when things settle down I will try and get some pics up.. Sue


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## rickztahone (Nov 5, 2008)

i had gotten 4 pairs of longfin rams and they did well for the first week. then one by one they started dying off. i tried to do as much as possible to save them but to no avail. all my water parameters were on point and they were in QT. poor little guys, i guess it wasn't meant to be. here are some pics regardless


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uclHbJFFO5qg3I79Tu0cqA?feat=directlink

One of my 4 wild caught GBR's. I've had them for a little over a year, they have recently really began to show their color.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Lovely Blue Ram there Josh, nice natural finnage and good colours.


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## jjmirks (Feb 9, 2009)

i will be getting some blue and gold german rams in a couple weeks for my 120g, so i'm in?


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi... Just a quick update.. Well the 2 pairs of blue rams that I added to the geo/angel tank are now one pair.. The dominant pair would just not leave the other pair alone so I removed them to my husbands smaller tank.. I think that because I don't have alot of greenery in this tank and the dominant pair are aggressive and colored to spawn again they just claimed the entire 120 gallon tank :lol: :lol: .. They are even pushing around the geos more than twice their size.. Now that they are the only pair in their all seems back to normal and they have definitely settled down a bit. I've had Bolivian rams before but never these guys and I am amazed that for such tiny fish they have an emense amount of spunk and personality in addition to their beautiful colors.. So , I guess the lesson learned is ,anyone thinking of more than one spawning pair, in a tank better have lots of greens for then to escape to and get out of sight of each other.. :lol: :lol: Sue


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## chelseam (May 6, 2009)

Hi Everyone,
I would like to be in on this :fish: y club too!!! I have a pair of GBR's...will post pics of them after I pick up a new cord for my camera!
~Chelsea


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## Ronny_M (Jan 8, 2009)

Hi, 
I'm in Australia and I recently acquired some beautiful Blue rams myself.
I'm also new to the forum but I thought I'd share my pics and join the club 

Anyways, my Longfin and German bred...



















Ronny.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

just thought id share some very bad photo's of my old gbr's

the tank is now in the process of being high tech planted and i dont have these fish anymore













































there are now no flower pots and i have the tank planted with 60 more plants coming next week.

could i fit another pair into this tank again even though i dose nitrates into my water as fertiliser, i carry out 50% weekly water changes and if they are going to breed i have a 20" square tank for breeding

Thanks, Paul


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## Ronny_M (Jan 8, 2009)

I got some breeding action this weekend 

My longfin male with my female german bred.

The eggs on day one:









The eggs at the end of day two, transferred into a pit (they have lil wriggly tails):









I'm very interested as to how the fry turn out.

Any one bred this combination before?


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