# Straight up now tell me... really, I mean Straight up.



## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hello all!

Wow, another thing I have to ask the Hive Mind of the Forum...  We're going to have to quit meeting like this...
Anyway, I have a Yellow Lab (female) that might have some kind of a swim bladder problem. 
However, from what I've read so far on the forum, swim bladder problems seem to involve floating to the top, or sinking to the bottom, or listing to one side, even upside down.

My Lab has none of these problems... I tried to make a single video, but gave up and spliced together a couple of pieces - so forgive the redundant comments - 




It's just that when she comes to a rest (stops swimming) her body goes vertical - heads up. She intentionally rests in the plants the same way. She's a pretty active fish, and she loves to swim back and forth - back and forth - through the bubbler, etc. You don't notice anything until she finally gets a little tired, and stops swimming. Then her tail drops. She's kind of always done this. But what prompted me to consult the Hive is that it must be getting progressively worse because today my husband noticed it...

What's changed? Well a couple of things. I changed from Extreme Cichlid PeeWee to New Life Spectrum Cichlid, and then New Life Spectrum Algae Max. The NLS floats a lot more... so all the fish eat more from the top, and they do all seem to swallow a lot of air. Yes, I've seen this Lab burp air, and yes, sometimes it does seem a little more noticeable after she eats - but, I'm watching more closely when they eat, so maybe it's just perception.

I also added an airstone awhile back; maybe end of February. Many of my fish, especially the one I'm talking to you all about today, really seem to love swimming in it and being carried up by the bubbles.

So, I've had her since I started my tank - end of January this year. 
Tank is cycled. Check water parameters every 3rd day or so. 
Today, Ammo 0, Nitrite 0, ph 8.2, Nitrate less than 5ppm. 
gH and kH can't be read; API chart goes to 12 and my readings are 19 and 13 respectively, so it's pretty hard. 
50% WC every week, canister filter maintenance once a month, 29 gallon tank (yes, I'm working on it; way too small), using a Cascade 1500 with all my biomedia in it, and a HOB with Purigen and filter floss only. 
General aggression in tank; surprisingly minimal; at any time there will be 3 to 5 fish showing some fin damage from nipping, but it is always different fish. Damage minimal enough to typically heal in 4-6 days.
I use Seachem Prime, Seachem Stressguard and Cichlid Trace with water changes. 
Tonight I added, for the first time, 2 heaping tablespoons of plain API Aquarium Salt (pre-dissolved) to see what would happen. (I realize that is only 1/3 of recommended dosage, but I have live plants...) It has made the fish even more active than usual - my Yellow Lab is swimming back and forth non-stop with some of the other fish, so I really can't tell if there's a change in the last couple of hours since I've added that salt.
Tankmates 
Cobalt Neon
Cobalt Neon
dragonblood
striped something cichlid
another Yellow lab
Red Zebra
Green Afra
Demasoni
johanni male
johanni female
red top hongi
yellow fin mbamba
blueberry
socolofi
white top afra
OB Zebra
unidentified&#8230; Rainbow fish

Thank you for your thoughts!


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## Kalost (Feb 27, 2013)

cant view your vid.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

^^Agreed, your video is private.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

It sure was... should be fixed now. Thanks!


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for fixing the video!

I think it is a sign of stress, the fish appears extremely nervous and is using the plants and other structures to try and hide and keep out of the way of your other fish.

You already know that your tank is overstocked and I expect that you will continue to see additional problems as your fish continue to grow. Fish that are stressed can become sick easily so please keep that in mind.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Could it be anything else? 
She doesn't act like that when I'm not videotaping... The video camera scares them all, but her in particular. I cut out the first video where the camera came close to the glass and every fish in the tank went into hiding for 5 minutes... (I think they think it's a big eye of a predator or something.)
But yes, working on getting a 135 gallon... just taking longer than I thought. I hope it's that simple. Definitely gives me a push to get my tank up and going... 
The first time she was holding, I moved her to a tank by herself... she did the same thing. Also, when there were only 5 fish in the tank, she did the same thing, too. Maybe it has always been stress. I hope a bigger tank will do the trick, and thank you!


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## ocnbrze (Mar 3, 2014)

has the belly always looked like that? it does look like she is either fat from over feeding or it could possibly be a swim bladder infection. how long has she been like this? do the scales look like they are being lifted off the body? if so it could be bloat as well.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

I don't think she is sick - I agree that this is likely a side effect of stress and her attempt to hide among those plants on the left side. I've occasionally seen fish act in similar manners when they are the subject of extra aggression.

It's definitely time to get that 135 gallon! Even with the move to a larger tank, I would advise some alterations (additions as well as subtractions) in stock list - or at the least splitting some fish up among your two tanks.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Yes, she's always been kind of fat like that... she's not fat right now, though. She's holding and I've moved her to another tank. So she hasn't eaten now in several days...

hopefully going to go pick up the 135 gallon tomorrow, but still have to repair it and get it ready... make a stand... (found it on CL) so it's going to be awhile yet. They are growing sooooooooo much faster than I thought they would. all that expensive Extreme and NLS food, I guess!

All this discussion has made me remember something, though... she did act more like this just before she spawned last time... so, stress is making more sense... getting ready to spawn in addition to my way-cray stocked tank would make her stress level go up for sure.

She's eating fine (until she started holding) and pooping fine, and her scales look fine, so I don't think it's bloat... right now, she's in her own 10 gallon... chillin'... and she is not doing that vertical thing at all right now.

Thanks everyone for your help! I think I just need to get my bigger tank going... sooner. than. later!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

She might be over-eating, (not now, obviously). Even if you are not overfeeding this fish may be over-eating. They symptom you often see with an overeating fish is they get heavy for one and they tend to sit--on the bottom or lodged somewhere when resting as opposed to a normal fish who will hover when not swimming. You might think bloat at this point but the over-eating fish will continue to eat which a fish suffering from bloat will not. You might also think swim bladder but a fish with swim bladder will either be 'stuck' on the bottom, or bobbing like a balloon at the top and when it attempts to move from either position it can only do so with a tremendous effort and as soon as it stops trying it will either float back to the top or sink to the bottom.
One small feeding a day is all they need--and only as much as they can consume in less than a minute. If one fish tends to get more food than the others then you have to find a way to feed them so that doesn't happen. Placing a large floating plastic vine like plant in the tank can help: sprinkle the food into the plant--makes all the fish have to hunt rather than just skimming it off the top.

I don't know if this is your fish's problem or not--just one more thing to consider. Good luck with the new tank

Robin


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

OK, she does pig out. and she does always look fatter than the others. and she does often sit on the bottom, but she's by no means stuck there... she's just chillin'... sometimes she'll just sit in a plant... and yes, I have a lot of problem with my more aggressive eaters getting too much food, so I will try the floating plant thing, too. Great advice+!

People talk about "what they'll eat in a minute... I can't do that! My fish would eat way too much... 
I started at 4 times a day in what they can eat it 20 seconds - they got fat.
I then went to 2 times a day in what they can eat in 20 seconds - they got skinny and more aggressive.
Now I'm at 3 times a day... about 3 pinches, one at a time - usually the first 2 pinches, not one pellet hits the substrate; usually the food does not get more than 3-4 inches from the top before it is gone completely. 
On the third pinch, sometimes 5 or more pellets hit the ground. then, I'm done feeding them. even if none hits the ground, I still stop.

My fish seem unusually hungry... all the time... I always feel like I'm starving them, but they don't look skinny...

But yes, I will definitely try the floating plant thing!


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## ocnbrze (Mar 3, 2014)

well for me i always alternate my fish feeding.....i feed them twice a day every other day and then i feed them only once in between......twice a day all the time was too much work for me to get the nitrates down. and no matter what, they will always be hungry when you approach the tank.....that is just what they do.......lol


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

hisplaceresort1 said:


> My fish seem unusually hungry... all the time... I always feel like I'm starving them, but they don't look skinny...


This is just how mbuna are. You could dump the whole can of food into the tank (not recommended!) and then half an hour later approach your tank and they would still beg for more food. This type of behavior likely stems from the fact that their food sources in the wild vary with seasons - sometimes food is plentiful and the cichlids gorge in order to survive the periods when food is more scarce.

I like to fast my cichlids 1 day per week - this might be another alternative to changing your feedings per day.


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

the day before fasting i always feed them thawed peas. this keeps them clean and happy  the seconds rule doesnt go. when i feed all the food is out of the water in 10 seconds 2 times a day. that leaves chewing. you have to find out yourself how much to feed them. most people overfeed their fish. fish shoud have a straight belly if you look from the side. you can try feeding them a little less till the bellies get a little sunken. then start adding more food so that the majority of fish have a nice straight belly.

you have pigs that hog everything. you cant prevent that. and you will have fish that dont get enough. you should feed acording how the majority of your fish look and you will be fine. remember that underfeeding is not nearly as big of a problem as overfeeding.

i dont know why but people always like to see fat fish. fish should look nice and lean and always begging for food.


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