# Moving 55G into a 120G Help



## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Hey guys,

Im new on the boards but hopefully I'll come here for some information from time to time and to help others.

I've been running my tank for about a year and a half now and have relative success. I've learned a lot along the way and Im now thinking of getting a big tank and I have two questions.

#1) If I were to move my 55G contents into a 180G tank, fish, rocks, fake plants, wood etc... what would I need to watch out for? I'd assume all of this beneficial bacteria would be enough to kickstart the system on the new 180G tank.

Would I need to put the sponge from my aquaclear or the charcoal from it into a new fluval or eheim filter (which I'd plan to buy)?

When could I add new fish? I currently have this in my 55G:
4 Plecostomus that are 2-3 years old and about 6 inches
2 livingston cichlids that are 5 and 3 inches
1 Frontosa that is 4 inches
1 Gold Severum that is 5 inches
2 Julii Cory Cat Fish that are 2 inches

#2) If I were to buy a filter system that is for say a 250-400G aquarium and strap it onto my 180G aquarium what are the benefits and disadvantages? Does it require less maintenance? Is it healthy for the fish to have that much filtration etc?

Thanks guys! Give me as much insight as possible, I'll read long winded responses no problem!


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## lestatak (Feb 3, 2007)

I'd buy the filter first and run it in your 55 gallon for a few weeks. When you finally have the 180 gallon ready & where you want it, I'd use all the water from your existing tank into your new tank. Good luck.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

So having an oversized filter is generally seen as a good thing?


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## ArcticCatRider (Jul 13, 2007)

ALWAYS use more filtration than needed!you do not neccassarily have to, but it is good to use more filtration than needed.....Anyways, you can't overfilter..impossible.but you could have to much flow, or something like that from so many, or even 1 really powerful filter...

now, as "lestatak" noticed, and advised you, if you can, IMO, you should try to get a filter to run on your 55 for atleast 2 weeks, before starting the 180, if this is possible...
advice/IMO - it would be a great deal to use a wet/dry filter setup on a 180, because they are so large, and wet/drys are great bio-filters, and can be DIY-ed, or store bought, and set up how you like it..

Or, you could even use a Fluval FX5, canister filter, for this 180..or 2..more is better!  
Also, try a combination - FX5, AquaClear 110.. or 2 FX5s and AquaClear 110 power filter...

or.....Marineland C-360, with FX5, and/or AC 110...
3 AC 110s
also, wet dry, FX5, AC 110.....
just some options there on great filtration....most will tell you, Wet/Dry is the way to go, and I hear the FX5s are awesome filters, even say?aquaclear 110, with wet dry could do it...
but!you can use multiple combinations of each kind of filter and use different/certain medias and get bio, chemical, and mechanical filtration.........

2. you should be able to move seeded filter, all decorations, all water and everything straight to the 180, and add the rest of the water, and add salt, buffer?, and water treatment/dechlorinator..and be fine.....


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks ArticCatRider

This has brought up a 2nd question. Actually two...

#1) I am relatively unfamiliar with a wet/dry filter. I use an aquaclear (70G) filter for my 50 galon tank right now. It has the simple sponge and active carbon in it.

What does a wet dry do? What kind of maintenance/how often is maintenance required and what kind of components do I need to buy regularly to run it?

#2) What do you mean by Chemical, Biological and Mechanical filtration? Active carbon deals with chemical, Biological breaks down ammonia/waste - am I correct with these two descriptions of those two types of filtration? If so, what is Mechanical Filtration in a fish tank? If I was incorrect, what are biological and chemical filtration? Or at least how would they better be described?


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## ArcticCatRider (Jul 13, 2007)

well.....here is a site on wet drys
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/filtra ... 090298.htm

more
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-wet-dry-filter.htm

Now..here is a site, where when you click the blue highlited "mechanical" in the article, it redirects you to another page, in which you read about mechanical filtration, and it has biological, and chemical filtration, in blue, and you can read about it all....
this is a page with wet dry filter, building your own is cheaper FYI
http://www.aquariumguys.com/aquarium-we ... lters.html

wet/drys are pretty simple...you can have a pre-filter, with a sponge, then a filter pad over your drip tray, then the water flows through that, and into, or through bio-balls/pot scrubbers.then, it enters the sump part, where you have a pump that returns it to the tank, through a spray bar.

numbers 1 and 2 should be answered by this, OR, the articles I have provided...
And, for more info, you can begin by searching through the site and check out DIY for wet/drys, and google this too...
you will find results....Aqua Clears are purty good, you could do a 110 and wet/dry you know, and have sufficient filtration
:fish: :fish: :fish:


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## ArcticCatRider (Jul 13, 2007)

actually.............here is the site that tells about wet dry filter, I had meant to add it underneath this sentence......
"Now..here is a site, where when you click the blue highlited "mechanical" in the article, it redirects you to another page, in which you read about mechanical filtration, and it has biological, and chemical filtration, in blue, and you can read about it all.... "

here goes the site
http://www.aquariumguys.com/about-wet-dry-filters.html


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Cheers, Ill read through them and let you know if I got anymore questions!


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Update!

I ended up getting a 120 gallon tank. I'm going to run a Rena XP3 on my 50 gallon for a week before I setup my 120 gallon over next weekend.

Should I do my weekly water change as per usual this weekend or will it help the 2nd filter to build up its biological filter colony?

Also, Im going to have more question along the way. I understand biological chemical and mechanical filtration now so thats all good. I might have maintenance questions now though. Speak up if what Im doing alarms you as improper!


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

Sounds like you are right on track. You can still do your water change as normal, but maybe have the Xp3 on there for 2 weeks instead of just 1. In the mean time you will probably have lots to do to set up the 120; getting it positioned properly, getting the background set up, cleaning gravel/ sand.. etc.
Not sure a single Xp3 is enough for a 120.... i would use 2 of them .... or are you moving another filter from the 55 gallon. 
Once the filters are moved over, and the rocks, decor etc... you should be able to add more fish to that 120 right away.

Boomr


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Boomr99, you dont think a Rena XP3 is enough? They are listed to be able to do 175 Gallons. 55 more than I got. I know more filtration is better than less for sure and I actually also have a Rena XP2 which can handle 75 Gallons. That'd put me up to 250.

What are the plusses and minuses of having that much filtration? (I've listed the pluses and minuses I can think of below)

Plusses: 
-Healthier fish
-Clearer Water
-Will less water changes have to be done? 
-Will I have to clean the filters less often with two of them going?
-Others?

Minuses:
-Having to clean two filters
-More current in the water from the spray bars or return from the filters
-Others?

I'm weighing the variables to see if I wanna run just the one XP3 and use the XP2 on a differnt tank potentially, or if I'll run both on my 120 Gallon. As much insight as possible would be benficial.


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm no expert, but I think many other people would agree with me that a single Xp3 on a 120 gal is not nearly enough. I would hazard to say that an Xp3 and and Xp2 would be bare minimum (IMO). Lots of people will likely suggest a wet/dry system for a tank that size. The thing to remember is that what a filter is "rated" at is not very accurate. They are calculated for gph (gallions per hour) without any filter media and no tubing. So if a filter is rated at 400 gallons per hour, you can expect closer to 250 or so when it is actually running on your tank. You should have at least 4x your tank capacity filtered every hour.... for you that's 480 gallons per hour.. real, not "rated"., minimum.
On my 55 gallon, I have an Xp2 and a built in canopy filter, total "rated" gph is 700. It is closer to 400 gph real water movement, or about 7 to 8x my tank capacity per hour.

The benifits of "over filtration" far outweigh any negatives. The more filtration the better...
I only clean my filter media once a month, and thats just a quick rinse in the water removed in a water change. I replace the sponges only when they are getting tattered and torn.
The current that would be put out by 2 Xp3's or an Xp3 and an Xp2 would not be nearly "too much" for a 120 gal. In fact I would say that you could use 1 spray bar and 1 jet nozzle and that may not be enough water movement.
I can't think of any other possible "negatives" to you running at least 2 Xp3's. Or get an Xp4 and a large HOB like an AquaClear 110. That would still be minimum.

Everyone has different ideas of what "enough filtration" is. Above is my opinion. As I said, I am by no means an expert. Hopefully others will chime in. If you don't mind doing larger, more frequent water changes and gravel cleaning, you may be comfortable with less.

Kudo's to you for getting on a site like this and asking good questions though... many people who keep large tanks don't think to ask these types of important things... and god knows the LFS's often give people bad info....

Boomr


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

You've got excellent advice already, but just some additional - and purely subjective - points from me:

- I see no advantage in running a new filter on an old tank and then switching over, as compared to transferring the media from the old filter to the new filter and starting the new tank straight away. Transferring the media is what I've always done, it has never given me any trouble, and you get to enjoy your new tank quicker :thumb:

- HOB filters in my experience need continuous maintenance - which is why I don't use any! Canister filters according to Eheim should not be opened more than once every eight weeks. If you have to service them more often, your filter is too small for your system! In my tanks I usually don't service the filters more than twice a year, and if you have large enough filters that's really no problem - and ensures you don't disturb your beneficial bacteria more than necessary! So more filtration means less need for filter maintenance, but not less water changes. Water changes take care of things that filtration (regardless of size) can not do, for example removing nitrate.

- More current in most cases is a plus. OK, some fish - discus and angels come to mind - really don't like a strong current, but most fish do. Your plecos most definetely will enjoy it. I often find mine sitting right in front of the filter outlets.

- If you read up in the library section of this site on the different fish you have, you will quickly find out that your stocking list is less than ideal. You might want to address that in the long term, but most of us started this way, and as long as the fish seem to do ok, there is no rush to change things.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks so much for the insight Boomr99 and fmueller.

I can definitely relate to the comment by boomr99 when he said that LFS staff often give poor or inaccurate information. I pretty much disregard what they say most of the time. One of them told me that Green Spotted Puffers would be fine as a community fish. Are you kidding me?

Anyways, back on track. I just realized today that 4-5x the gph of your tank size is what I'd like to acheive. I'll definitely need to reassess my setup once I get home.

fmueller, good call on the media transfering. The only media I have is from an aquaclear 70 I believe it is. This brings me to two new questions.

#1) How about an undergravel filter. This is part of my setup in my 50 gallon tank. I know some of the downfalls and plusses to them but do these have a gph type of filtration rating? How can I factor in an undergravel filter into my plans if I were to get one? I never bought the one I have brand new and have no information on it really at all.

#2) I understand the importance of water changes to reduce Nitrate but I wanted to know, now that I have a biological filter (which wasnt present in my 50 gallon since all I had was a sponge and active carbon) , does this improve the cycling of my tank to the point where water changes are less commonly needed? Or is it still a good rule of thumb to do a 20% (or so) water change every week?

Thanks again guys, Im learning a lot. I thought I knew a lot but with the introduction of new equipment, bigger tanks etc I have run into some new material that I need to learn and the lack of an instruction booklet to come along with my used stuff its hard to find everything I need. You've all been really helpful.

I definitely need to address my fish setup as mueller mentioned  I like having fish that are less aggressive, nice looking and interesting of course, I think thats what we all like from our pets. So far its worked, I might keep going with this method but if I do have problems then I'll have to change. I'll also check out the library.


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## goby8uup (Oct 10, 2006)

On my 110 gallon tank, i have a cascade 1000, fluval 404, eheim 2217, and a aquaclear 500. Plus 2 monster powerheads. And tons of rock. A rena xp3 is not NEARLY enough, i would do at least 2 and a hob filter... My tank is literally crystal clear, fish always breed, more filtration FTW :fish:


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

I know very little about under gravel filters, other than I have read several times on here that they are not really that good. Consider under gravel jets to help water movement at the bottom, but I don't know much about those either. You can read up on them in the Library on this site.

Having biological filtration (which should have always been there) will not reduce the amount of water changes you need to do. People will tell you the "rule of thumb" is this much water, this often.... and everyone will tell you something slightly different. To find what works for your tank, just monitor nitrate by testing every 2 or 3 days for the first several weeks. I don't like to have nitrate any higher than 40ppm in my tanks, ever. So if you did the same, you would do a water change when it measures, say 35 ppm. Don't forget to measure it again several hours after the water change. This will give you a good idea of how much nitrate dropped by doing that much of a water change (say you did 20%). If it's not low enough for your liking, do a larger change next time. After a few times, you will know exactly how much water to change and how often..... IMO, much better than listening to other people who have differnt setups (amount and type of filtration, amount, type and size of fish, will all change how fast nitrate builds up in your tank).

I also agree with fmuelller about swapping just the filter media. That is a great option if possible. I have never had a problem with my HOB's, but some people have.. so something to consider. And my fishes also love to swim in the current my Xp2 puts out.

I bet some people would say that what goby8uup has is "way over filtering". But it ain't harming anything.. the more filtration the better.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Nice, thats a good point boomr99.

I've taken my readings on occassion, but I should definitely "know whats going on" a bit better. I've only ever stuck to the rule of thumbs. This will be something I'll do once my tank has been going for a little bit and my readings arent all over the place. I think that satisfies my questions at this point in time. I'm sure I'll bump this thread with a few more as I continue the setup. I appreciate it guys.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Oops. Already thought of a new question. Yet this is one I'm going to encounter later but I wanna be prepared for.

When Im maintaining my filter. How exactly do I go about maintaining the biological filter component?

I know I rinse it in aquarium water, but like is there a technique? Should I scrub the tubes/stars pretty good? Should I only do half of them? etc...

Why is it important to rinse these every so often? Isn't a large biological colonoy important and more beneficial to my tank or can it get "too big" without this maintenance?


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

NO! don't touch your biological media. Just rinse your mechanical media well in old tank water, till all the crud comes out. Leave the biological alone. DO NOT scrub them, you will lose all the good bacteria (or much of it anyway). Your tank will find it's own equilibrium and keep the right amount of bacteria it needs on its own.
Hope this helps.

Boomr


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks again Boomr99. Maybe I misread something because I read somewhere that cleaning about half of your bioligical filter every month or so would be beneficial if it was done in the removed aquarium water. Seemed kind of dumb to me too.

Another question then, would beneficial bacteria survive in a tank of brand new water minus any chlorine in it? Ie. Fresh water right out of the tap that I filtered right through a canister filter that had a developed bacteria load. Would it survive?


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

I would only ever rinse the bio media if it was REALLY full of crud, but it should never get like that if the mechanical (sponges) are doing their job. Cerainly never scrub it.

I'm not sure I completely understand your question. The bacteria in a tank or filter will survive for a short amount of time. The tank water should be heated (normal tropical aquarium temp.) And it needs "food".. i.e.. an ammonia source (fish poo, or household ammonia in the case of a FISHLESS cycle).

BUT... the bacteria does not live in the water. It lives in the filter media, tank substrate (gravel or sand) and a small amount on rocks, plants or other decor. So running fresh water through an established filter will not have any beneficial amount in the resulting water. Essentially all the bacteria is still on the filter media. So if you hope to have enough bacteria in fresh water that has just been run through an established filter (if I understand your question), then no you won't, you will have almost none in the water.

Hope that makes sense.

Boomr


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

That helped with the question but I guess rephrasing it would be better.

You mentioned what the bacteria needs to live, food air etc...

So if a filter with this bacteria fully established was put on a new tank with water that had just come out of the tap but was heated properly and had no chlorine. Would the bacteria survive that shock? Like is this bacteria strong enough to live in brand new water?

It'll get air and ammonia, but are the water parameters too harsh for it? I am guessing not.

I just dont want to kill my bacteria by surrounding it with water it cant survive in.


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

Your right, unless the water is boiling hot, freezing cold or is full of bleach, the bacteria will be fine. Otherwise you could never do a water change. 
I'm pretty sure the bacteria does not need air. Having good air exchange in the water is for the fishes benifit, not the bacteria, as I understand. And things like air stones and such are not that helpful. You are better off using a power nozzle on your filter output to agitate the surface of the water. There have been lots of posts on this site discussing how to oxygenate your water.Also read this:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/w ... vement.php

I assume that you are going to be doing a fishless cycle? You say you will add ammonia. Please read this:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... ycling.php
and 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/jump_start.php

That should answer all your questions.

Boomr


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

*FIX*

My appologies. I just re-read this article:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/w ... vement.php

And denitrifying bacteria do in fact need oxygen, which is best achieved by good water movement and exchange at the surface.

Boomr


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Actually I've got a 50 gallon tank that Im basically going to poor into my new 120, top it up and go...

I'll have the built up bacteria/media and what not in two filters I'll be using along with all the other good stuff in the rocks etc...

Thats good to hear. I'll be sure to pay attention to my readings as I'll be doing them very often for the first two weeks.

I've been asking a lot about under gravel jets lately since I'm contemplating putting them into my tank since its bone dry and the time to do it would be now. Any insight on this would be great. I've read the library article and the article by Fmueller and have a pretty good grasp on things but some general tips and lessons learned along the way by someone with experience using them would be fabulous.

Thanks again!


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

Eb0la11 said:


> Actually I've got a 50 gallon tank that Im basically going to poor into my new 120, top it up and go...
> 
> I'll have the built up bacteria/media and what not in two filters I'll be using along with all the other good stuff in the rocks etc...
> 
> ...


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Im deciding what type of substrate. What do you guys think? I'd haaaaate to have sand ruin my filters if I did it wrong, though Im pretty sure most of my fish are known to prefer a sand substrate.

Im thinking of going to a slightly less course rock and a darker coloration. I have a larger pebble substrate and its white right now.

I'll most definitely do the rock in the pantyhose for my 2nd filter for the 120 gallon tank to get it going.


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

African cichlids love sand. And you won't be sorry for having it once you see your fish digging, picking it up and spitting it out, and otherwise "playing" in the sand. I used a slightly coarser sand (black onyx) and have had zero problems with it in my filters.
The general consensus from the dozens of posts I have read on this arguement seem to be that although lots of people have had problems with sand in their filters, many many more have not. Read this post, for one: 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=165790

Most everyone suggests that sand can more easily cause problems with HOB filters, not cannisters. And a pre-filter (I don't use them) is popular. Pool filter sand seems popular too, and I believe it's available in many diferent colors. You will have to research what you can find near you.

What I did: check out the pictures area on this site (and others) and look at tank setups that I really found attractive. Find what you like and try to duplicate it, changing whatever you want!

Good luck!

Boomr


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Hmmm, I'm definitely gonna have to at least take a look at sand. I've read a fair bit about it and the only real thing that I have a problem about it is the fact that it can ruin a filter... I got a bit of a custom built tank that had limited floor space so its a bit taller than most 120 Gallon tanks at 24" tall, so I can easilly have the intake 10 inches away from the substrate which would help, but I'm still "scared" I guess you could say.

Only a few more days until I get the tank delivered and then I'm going to be putting it together so I've gotta come to a decision pretty soon.

Another new topic. I checked the lighting department at my local home depot and couldnt find the egg crate light panels people keep talking about.

This is just a plastic grid moreless correct? Also, from my understanding the main reason people get it is to kinda of prevent any damage to the bottom of their tank if they happen to drop a big rock or something, is this correct? What other advantages does it give?

I kind of think that a grid like that could trap some debris relatively easy and be hard to clean, is this not a problem?


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

Did you read that post on sand ruining filters? I know, it's a long one! With a cannister filter, the water has to travel throuhg all the filter media before reaching the impellar. It will remove any sand that does get sucked into the intake. my intake is about 4" from the sand and no problems.

I don't use the egg crate. Yes it is just a plastic grid, the squares are about 1/2" square. The idea is to distribute the weight of a large load of rocks. Like most other things we've discussed, people seem to argue about the benifit of using it. Many people use it and swear by it, just as many people don't use it and are fine without it. 
The reason I don't use it is because a) I don't have a huge load of rocks, and b) I do think it would trap debris and be harder to clean.
Again, it's personal preference.

Boomr


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Do you find that the floor or your tank is ever at risk with maybe scraping a gravel filter into gravel to the point where all this scraping would cause any damage? I know its a far fetched question but if there was an easy solution to protect the bottom of my tank without the chance of debris getting caught up more easily, Id use it.

I was thinking of a kind of foam or something? Or even a sheet of 1/8" plastic to cover the bottom or something... Im not sure the egg crate grid is for me.

I think the more i read about it and think about it, the more id like sand as my substrate. I might get a slightly coarser sand and even filter it a bit to get pin head sized particles for the most part. I know for one that my Geophagus Jurupuri Im planning on getting would love this!


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

Scraping or scratching the bottom glass won't do anything. It's unsightly but it won't break or leal unless you crack it. Aquariums are built to have sand / gravel / rocks on the bottom. IMO it will be fine. 
If you are still considering an under gravel filter, you can't use sand, it will clog it up. If you are talking about under gravel jets, I'm not sure why you would move it around so much that you would cause all kinds of scraping. Set it up when the tank is empty and then only move it if you don't like where the water flow is... shouldn't be that often. But again, I have never used either, so I'm just going based on what I've read.

Boomr


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Quick recap since tomorrow is the big day that I'll be moving my 50 into a new 120 gallon.

-I've developed an UGJ (actually USJ) system that will have 8 jets run off the output my Rena XP3 and XP2 will give off (hopefully thats enough)

-Changing my substrate from a bit of a larger gravel to a sand substrate. (regular play sand) I'll be washing it tonight

- I've had my XP3 running on the old tank for a week now and will be placing my old gravel in a porous sac (likely panty hose) and then having it near the intake for the XP3. I'll probably have 3-4 of these sacs at first.

-I'll be setting up the XP2 tonight in terms of the media but it won't go on my old tank. It'll be set up on the new tank on saturday. I'll also be placing one of the rock sacs inside the filter for a week or two

-I'll have some sort of air stone to airate the water.

-I'll be adding the entire 50 gallons of water into the new tank and then topping it up with 70 gallons of fresh.

-Not sure on the lighting yet, I got a canopy light but havent taken a good look at its specifics yet.

-Might add one HOB filter still, not sure yet...

-Heat is a no brainer...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With that much fresh water and removal of my gravel for a clean sand, when do you guys figure I should add new fish? I'll have 10 coming from the old tank:

4 Plecos
2 Julii Cory Cats
1 Gold Severym
2 Livingston Cichlid
1 Frontosa

In total about 40-45 inches of fish.

I know with a new setup all the fish will be looking to claim new territories so I want to get some new ones in there asap. When can I do this? I'm looking at adding probably 4 new fish:

German Blue Ram (or Bolivian)
Geophagus Jurupari (Earth Eater)
Firemouth Cichlid
Possibly Blue Dolphin Moori

In terms of my fish mix, I know its kinda wonky. Read this thread for an explanation before giving me the gears haha:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... 99&start=0


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

I think you should be good to go!
Can't remember.. what filter are you running on the 50 gallon now? And are you keeping the 50 gall or going to be taking it down and you can put that filter on the 120 until the xp3 and xp2 are more established?
Also, not sure if there is a benefit to having the gravel in the sac near the intake of your filter rather than in the filter? I would put it in the filter if i were you, like you are doing on the xp2.
Did you read some posts on the air stones benifit (lack of)...? I would be concerned that with both your filter outputs connected to the USJ system, you will have very little surface / water agitation, and therefore poor aeration. The air stones do very little. Get a HOB filter and that will do much more good (and help filtration too!)

Not sure about your fish choices, but good luck with whaterver you decide to add!

Boomr


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

haha yeah I know about my fish, part of it was cause when I got my 50 gallon it had fish in it already and I just kept them. So far its all working. Fish are very healthy and live peacefully. I think most of it is cause of good water chemistry from frequent changes.

The reason I was gonna put some by the intake is just cause my filter is already pretty full of media and is semi established from being on the back of my 50 galon for a week, though two weeks for the cycle to really take effect would be nice. Im hoping that it'll just catch up on the new tank. I could take out a bit of media but Im not sure what. I might get at least one sac in there somehow but I though thought having the rocks in the tank would help offset the lack of bacteria I'll have with all the freshwater and new substrate.

Is there anything beneficial in the rocks or is whats beneficial in there only ammonia which helps the cycle?

As for the bubbler, I'll have to read up on them a bit more. I was unaware. I'll be taking the 50 gallon down for now, just has an aquaclear. I will most definitely have it on the new tank at least for a week or two. After that I'll have to figure out aeration a bit more if I plan to take it off.

If I added 4 fish wouldnt my water parameters go out of whack with all the extra ammonia or will the lack of a "dirty" ammonia filled substrate help that? I think a lot of that would depend on if there is beneficial bacteria in the rocks at all that help with the cycle from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate... Im really not sure if there is.

Thanks again.


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

Eb0la11 said:


> Is there anything beneficial in the rocks or is whats beneficial in there only ammonia which helps the cycle?


The whole idea of moving some gravel over from the established tank is for the beneficial bacteria, not the ammonia. There is also not nearly as much of this "good bacteria" in the gravel, as there would be in the filter.
So if the new Xp3 has been running on the 50 gal for a week (I would leave it another week IMO), and you put some gravel from the 50 in there, then move it over to the 120 ONCE THE 120 is set up, also move the Aquaclear(AC) from the 50 to the 120 at the same time, leaving the same media in the AC, don't put new stuff in. Then put the water and fish from the 50 into the 120. 
You should then have enough of the good bacteria in that tank and filters, that you can easily add 4 more fish with no problems... no mini-cycle ammonia / nitite spike at all.

This is exactly how I would do what your doing (and have done in the past).

- Set up the 120 gallon, bring it in the house, put it on the stand.
- Wipe the inside of the tank very thoroughly with wet clothes, getting any dust or grime off the inside of the glass.
- Get your sand and clean it in 5 gallon pails in the bathtub. Rinse it many times, till the water out of it runs clear, then rinse it a few more times for good measure. This will take a while, probably a few hours if you are using lots of sand.
- Put the sand in the tank.
- Put in the rocks and decor that you want.
- Fill it up about 1/2 way with water. Use water about the temp. you want the tank to be, even a degree or 2 warmer. Make sure you dechlorinate. Pour the water onto a lrge rock or have someone hold a dinner plate in there so the water does not disturb the sand too much.
- Attach the heater(s) and get it running. (Make sure they don't run "dry")
- Take the Xp3 (with gravel in it) and the Aquaclear (established media) off your 50 gal. Hook them both up to your new tank.
- Get both filters running.
- Make sure the temperature in the new tank is good, then bring the fish over from the 50 gal into the 120.
- Fill the rest of the tank up (use the water from the 50 gal if you want), then top off the rest with same temp. dechlorinated tap water.
- Ensure the heater and filters are working. 
- Go get new fish and add them as normal.
- Readjust rocks and decor ...
Your new 120 is now ready to enjoy. Again with the filter media from the 50 running, the bactria levels will catch up fast and you should have no cycle at all.

That is how I would do it. It of coarse is up to you.

Boomr
Best of luck


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks for the tips boomr99.

That is pretty close to how I was going to do it as well after all of our discussions 

I already washed the sand today. I managed to get a big tub thats about 20 galons and do 50 lbs at a time with my garden hose churning it on its highest setting until it did run clear as I had the tub on a constant tilt so the smaller particles and what not ran out, then once it was clear I gave 'er another couple minutes so I think I did a good job but this is something *** never done so I cant say for sure but I did listen to what everyone else said.

The only thing I dont think I'm gonna be able to do is have the xp3 run on my main tank for two weeks. I wanna get this 120 set up haha. I guess its just me being over excited that I don't want to wait and I think with the bacteria I'll be able to bring over I should be ok. I'll watch the levels just in case.

Hopefully I'll be able to pickup some fish on Sunday or Saturday night even if Im real efficient with the tank setup which Im sure there will be an unforseen problem which makes it unlikely...

I'll swing by tomorrow and maybe be able to take some pictures even, who knows.


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

The only thing I forgot to add was to wash the rocks, but that should be fairly obvious. 
I agree that you should be fine and have no cycle and no unwanted ammonia or nitrite spikes. But do monitor it to be safe. As long as you mixed the sand with your hand lots as you were rinsing it with the hose, it should be nice and clean. Looks like it was just you and me for the past 2 pages on this post! Hopefully I was able to help you out a bit. Like I said I'm no real expert but think I have a good grasp of the "basics".
Where do you get your fish from in Calgary? I'm in Edmonton and go to a place called Aquarium Enthusiasts. They are awesome but I think they're just a local mom and pop store.
I'd love to see some pics when you are done!
Boomr


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Fish have made the migration from the 50 gallon to the 120 on Saturday night. Dispite not wanting to go into my net I think that all of them are doing fine.

I have viewed each and every one of them for at least a while and have noticed normal habits in them as well as normal eating etc...

Things look good so far. I've got a few minor details with my piping for a bit of my tank but nothing that cant be fixed as soon as I build up some more energy to deal with it.

So far the UGJs need more power so I'll be looking for a powerhead in the next little while as well.

Also, I had to fix part of the stand for the tank. This pushed things back a bit but nothing too substantial. A tiny bit of water damage that had cracked a bit of the panel support. I've reinforced it and am confident in its strength once again.

I took some pictures of the setup and will post them asap along with some of my fish. Looking at adding a couple of new guys today in fact!


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

I got a photo of the under gravel jet system I implemented but have no where to host the image. Ideas?


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## partsrep (Mar 14, 2005)

10G to 29G or 55G to 120G the fundmentals are the same in an upgrade. I have a post on the following thread that gives my step by step plan for an upgrade.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=167377&highlight=


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Boomr99, if you're still around I just wanted to say thanks.

I reread this thread at work today (Calgary Stampede week is a slow week for office workers which left me with free time to reread the thread lol) and the advice you gave me was very helpful and just wanted to say thanks.

The tank is still running really well. I've changed a few things along the way. I've paid more attention to my surface agitation and currents in the tank.

I've added two cap 3600 powerheads to pump the UGJ system. They work perfectly. I actually even submitted an article to the forum about a "flow scoop" design I incorporated into the jets that helped my flow rate to be even throughout all the jets. There is more info on them in this thread though I'd skip to the end of the thread where I finally got pictures of the design.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... 3&start=15

This along with the water fall from the HOB and the returns from the two Rena's has made my aquarium a place whree my livingston Cichlids felt comfortable enough to breed! Here's some pics that I've taken that I didnt know how to post until a month ago:

Here's a pic of the tank. Kind of a poor shot but you can see what it ended up looking like a bit:










Here's a pleco on top of one of the UGJ jets that they have conveniently uncovered...










Here's my Gold Severum named Rajasthan... dont ask.










Here is my lovely Frontosa, one of the nicest around if you ask me:










Here's the happy father of my first batch of fry!










and here's mom with the little ones in a seperate tank:




























So once again, thanks a lot!


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

Eb0la11, your very welcome. I'm glad I could help and happy to hear that it has all worked out so well for you. Kinda nice when a plan comes together heh?
Your setup looks great and congrats on your livingstoni breeding, that's very exciting and a real good indication that they enjoy the setup and you have great water quality! Good work.
Great pics of your fish too, and your right, the frontosa is a beauty!
Best of luck for continued success to you.

Boomr

P.S.


> I've added two cap 3600 powerheads to pump the UGJ system.


What exactly are cap 3600's? What brand and model of pump it that? Thanks.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Cap is the model. Apparently they are quite energy efficient and considered quiet. They hum similar to any HOB or canister filter. So far they've been great though. I bought them from one of the sites sponsors:

http://www.kensfish.com/powerheads.html

Right now some of the Cap models are in shipment so he's removed a big swack of them from the site as you can see from the spaces between the different cap models he has. Usually there is more to select from. I ordered a smaller one that was out of stock and he shipped me the bigger model at my discretion for no extra cost. So it worked out quite well.


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