# Acei breeding multiple times with same female



## treym563 (Apr 23, 2011)

Title says it all. I have my first holding female ever (woot). I walked out this morning and witnessed by 2.5" dominant male yellow tail Acei mating with a 2" female. Since that point (its been about 20 minutes) he keeps shaking in front of her and they go back and mate again. The female is clearly holding but why do they keep mating over and over? There are 6 Acei in my 55g, I'm not totally sure but I believe there are 3 males and a couple smaller females. They are all about 2". Is it because no other females will mate with him? The dominant one has been very aggressive ever since and chasing what I believe to be the sub-dom males around the tank. Is there any action I should take or just let it go?

Since posts with pictures are way better, here's a picture of them in the act. NSFW!!!!









Is it true that Yellow Tail Acei can be sexed by the shape of their top fin? All my suspected males have a top fin that ends in a point whereas my females have a more round or "squared off" top fin. You can kind of see that in the picture.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

lol @ NSFW tags  
It's normal for the spawning ritual to be repeated for a while, nothing to worry about so long as they're both participating. It's when the female continues to be harassed/chased by the male that there could be problems. With other females in the tank as well as sub-dominant males, it isn't likely that she'll be a constant target. Something to keep an eye on however, check for nipped fins occasionally. Eventually, you want to reduce the number of males and add to the females, either from your offspring or your LFS.
Congrats on your first spawn! :thumb:


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## treym563 (Apr 23, 2011)

Thanks *GTZ* I'm hoping to get some fry from this one. I plan on just letting her spit in the tank since most of my fish are somewhat small maybe the fry will survive. Anyone have any personal experiences from first-time holding females? What's the best thing to do, just let her spit or try to move her into a separate tank? Does the first time usually result in fry or is it just a learning experience for the female?


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## littleolme (Nov 1, 2011)

If you want the fry to live, remove the female from the tank. You may have a few that *MIGHT* survive if they have enough places to hide and don't get picked off when they come out. Acei usually have a large number of fry (our females have had upwards of 50) and Acei fry tend to be really small. Generally speaking, if the fry can fit into another fish's mouth, it's potentially food.

We always let our females spit on their own in quarantine tanks. Ours tend to hold for around 18 days, we usually pull them from the tank between 10-14 days after spawning. You can not sex them by their fins or eggspots, you need to vent them to know for sure. At least you know the sex of 2 of your fish now


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## treym563 (Apr 23, 2011)

Thanks for the advice! When you remove yours, do you coax her to the surface then try to net her? I want to save the fry to sell/keep a few females but I don't want to tear down the tank and stress everything out just to try to catch her. Any methods that have worked well for you?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Tearing down the tank is going to be the least stressful for all in the end, trust me. :thumb:

Some do have success waiting until 3am and netting her with a flashlight while she is sleeping on the substrate. Two issues...mine don't sleep on the substrate and I can never tell which is the holding one fast enough. They only stay sleepy for about 30 seconds.


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## treym563 (Apr 23, 2011)

Here's a couple more pictures of her. In the second pic you can clearly see the yellow eggs.

So DJ, do you drain a bunch of the water out and try to get her that way?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

First I would wait 7 days. If she is still holding then yes. I have my rocks arranged so I can remove 1-2 and divide the end rock pile from the rest. Do a water change and remove just that one rock pile after shooing her to that end.


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## littleolme (Nov 1, 2011)

Ya, we tear down the tank too, it'll probably be one huge frustration if you don't. Pretty tough to coax a fish that isn't eating, it makes it easier to think of it as an opportunity to give the substrate a good cleaning :lol:


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## treym563 (Apr 23, 2011)

littleolme said:


> Ya, we tear down the tank too, it'll probably be one huge frustration if you don't. Pretty tough to coax a fish that isn't eating, it makes it easier to think of it as an opportunity to give the substrate a good cleaning :lol:


That's just what I was thinking lol I'm going to try and get a piece of plexiglass to make a tank divider to trap her in one end as I drain a lot of the water out. Then I'll just move the divider closer and closer to her until I can net her out. Thanks for the advice guys! I have a 5g that I'm going to xfer her to for her to spit in. I figure since she's only barely 2" long she should be okay.

Will I be able to grow out the fry big enough in that 5g to put them into my main tank? Or will I need a larger grow out tank?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You need a larger grow-out tank. If you are growing 20 acei to 1.5" or larger (a good size to put them in the main tank) then I would get a 20G.


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## Europian (Jun 14, 2009)

treym563 said:


> littleolme said:
> 
> 
> > Ya, we tear down the tank too, it'll probably be one huge frustration if you don't. Pretty tough to coax a fish that isn't eating, it makes it easier to think of it as an opportunity to give the substrate a good cleaning :lol:
> ...


I have the same issue trying to catch my holding females - I try and catch them when I do my water changes - I drain 50% and I bought a 24 x 12 stainless steel mesh from Amazon (about $15) to divide my tank, I taped the sides of it with duct-tape and the mesh is flexible for me to bend around the rocks in either a 'S' or 'U' shape across the tank (18" front to back) - I just make sure the fish is on the side with the smaller rocks (I have a 50lb piece of Holey Rock I can't lift out of the tank by myself)


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## ryans125g (Jul 18, 2011)

yea im pretty new to the hobby and extremly fasinated with aff cichlids my estherae was holding for about 14 days and i stripped her i recieved aprox 35 fry they still have a roundish shape to them witch leads me to think i may have stripped them a little early but the do have a small tail and apear to get around when they want to i also have a OB peacock that is holding to i think im gonna strip her this weekend but shes getting rather swollen in the mouth but any how it probably took me about an hour to net my estherae i should have done a water change lol it was my first time and out of spirt of moment i can clearly say i wasnt useing my head lol but come this weekend when i strip my OB im deff doing at least a thirty and removing some decor as well since my ob is a little smaller


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## littleolme (Nov 1, 2011)

We were using a 50 gallon as a grow out tank but that's been turned into our Saulosi species tank. We bought a used 2 25 gallon set-up for our fry and, considering the number of fry that Acei can hold, I wouldn't suggest anything with a smaller footprint. We currently have 70ish 2 week old fry from 2 of our females in one and we have another mom (our largest female) that's getting close to being ready to be tranferred out of the main tank to her own so she can spit too.

Good luck with your fry, it's pretty exciting and fun to watch the whole process the first time. Very rewarding to watch them grow.


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## treym563 (Apr 23, 2011)

My dilemma is I don't want to start a breeding operation in my basement but I would like to save some fry to get my 1m5fm ratio without having to buy more females. I have the extra filters to get a 20 gallon going so I was thinking of getting a 20 long. Would that be able to raise a couple batches of fry?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

One batch at a time. Remember, 20 2" fish by the time you are finished. And you don't want to mix fry spit at different times, at least not for the first month or so.


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## ryans125g (Jul 18, 2011)

yeah i dont know who was more amazed me the care taker or my wife the observer its alot of work tending to these little guy but i love it i currently have a 125 set up for almost2yrs and my little 10 gallon i can see im deffinitly gonna need a bigger grow out i went with the 10gal because of the convenience of putting it under my 125ga.... Day 3 fry appear to be doing well that dont seem like there growin that much but maybe its because i cant take my eye off of them lol


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## Anthraxx8500 (Feb 11, 2011)

for good growth within fry try BBS or decapsulated brine shrimp eggs. both are full of the proteins and amino acids necessary for fry to grow quickly.


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## treym563 (Apr 23, 2011)

ryans125g said:


> yeah i dont know who was more amazed me the care taker or my wife the observer its alot of work tending to these little guy but i love it i currently have a 125 set up for almost2yrs and my little 10 gallon i can see im deffinitly gonna need a bigger grow out i went with the 10gal because of the convenience of putting it under my 125ga.... Day 3 fry appear to be doing well that dont seem like there growin that much but maybe its because i cant take my eye off of them lol


I will be doing the same thing! Gonna use a 20 long with a hydro sponge filter. It's rated for a 20g tank, there isn't a ton of water movement though, is that gonna be ok?

What's BBS?


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## ryans125g (Jul 18, 2011)

id say so that would be adiquite enough i would think


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## treym563 (Apr 23, 2011)

Well when I got home from work today I dropped an algae wafer into the tank before checking to see if the female was still holding. I noticed shortly after that she was picking at the wafer, she doesn't appear to be holding anymore. I wish I knew if she spit them at some point earlier today or if me dropping the wafer in caused her to spit so she could grab some of it. :-?

I just noticed another small male mating with her but I don't think she dropped any eggs, but she was definatly going through the motions. I didn't really expect her to hold full term but I was hopeful! Oh well, next time. Thanks for all your guys input and help, I appreciate it.


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## treym563 (Apr 23, 2011)

Upon closer inspection it appears she is still holding, just not as many eggs. I noticed she was flashing a fair amount and thrashing her head around violently sometimes so could it be possible she just had too many eggs and got rid of some?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

treym563 said:


> thrashing her head around violently sometimes


I'd say she needs to spit and is frantically looking for a safe place. Normal. :thumb:

Offering food does not cause a female to spit IME.


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## treym563 (Apr 23, 2011)

DJRansome said:


> treym563 said:
> 
> 
> > thrashing her head around violently sometimes
> ...


Even though she's only been holding for 3 days?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

That is odd. Maybe they are not fertilized and she has the urge to spit them out.


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