# Cichlid newby with firemouths, need help



## Lophura (Jul 18, 2009)

I have an aquarium that I used to have some mollies in but gave them to a friend because I started getting interested in cichlids. The aquarium is 29 gallon, I have many plants, a cave, a stump, and a rock face thing (all fake). I had been debating on which species to get and the people at the local pet stores dont know much. I ended up at Petsmart and was looking at the firemouths which caught my eye and noticed two of them acting different, almost like a breeding type thing. One is more colorful with longer pointed fins and the other is more dull with rounded fins which I read that some south american species are able to be sexed that way. Does it sound like a pair?

Also I have a friend that offered me a couple convicts and when I asked the person at petsmart they said the two species would get along, is that true? I have some little feeder guppies with them, will they eat them or was it a waste putting them in there?

Any suggestions about it?

Thank you, 
Michael

Sorry I posted under South American.


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

A breeding pair of Firemouths would be great in a 29, but have a divider handy in case the male is aggressive to the female if/when she is unable to spawn.

Conversely, a breeding pair of Cons would also be great in that tank, however you will soon be overrun with fry which are **** near impossible to get rid of. Again have a divider handy, just in case.

Both pairs is way, way too much. The result will be way more aggression than a tank that size can handle, there is nowhere to run. My vote would be for firemouths!


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## Lophura (Jul 18, 2009)

Does the description I provided sound like a pair? Do the firemouths breed like crazy or how many fry can I expect at how long of intervals? How large of a tank would I need for two pair?


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

yeah man u have a match.... cons r cool at first but with their some what dull colouring get a tad on the boring side.... if u defenetly want to find out whether they r boy and girl look just b4 the anal fin there will b a small think sticking out (breeding tube, they r hard to see when the fish doesn't have a full stomach) but if the one with less pointy fins has this fat stumpy thing pointing out and the one with longer fins has a thin and pointy one then they r boy and gitl (short and stumpy female, thin and pointy male) and especially if the female's breeding tube is sticking out and is impossible to miss then she is ready to breed... don't b dissapointed if when u put them in the tank they loos most of their colour and don't seem interested in eachother... it is possible to break a bond between fish (not uncommon) but more than likely they will pair up, but it will most likely take at least 2 weeks for them to breed or pair up again because of the move.... any way have fun with ur fish. it is a great hobby.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Lophura said:


> Does the description I provided sound like a pair? Do the firemouths breed like crazy or how many fry can I expect at how long of intervals? How large of a tank would I need for two pair?


Ok, I'm posting because maybe I'm old and can't understand texting language. :lol:

Your description of the firemouths sounds like a pair to me.

As for "do they breed like crazy?" I've found that every cichlid I've ever bred tends to not stop breeding :lol:

How many fry depends on the size and maturity of the parents. The larger the female the more fry you'll have. you can have 10 fry or 300. Too many variables to give an accurate response. 

As for how often they will spawn depends on water quality, how often you remove the fry and how often you decide to induce spawning by either keeping the temps cooler to deture spawning or doing multiple small water changes then one massive one to induce a spawn. could be every two weeks or once a year 

Your last question is a tricky one. I've seen a pair of firemouths take up a three foot by three foot area, defend it and spawn in it. The best avice I can give to someone starting out with cichlids is to avoid pairs in the begining. Multiple pairs in one tank no matter the typical size can be a recipe for disaster. I've had multiple pairs in a 240 (8'x2'x2') but it's stressfull on the other tank mates. Cons on the left of the tank, nics in the middle. It worked but it wasn't easy on anyone involved.

My 1500 is another story...

So to recap... Stay away from pairs if you're just starting out.


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

1500 thwt is huge


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Ok, so what does thwt stand for?


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

he probably meant th*a*t


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

> I ended up at Petsmart and was looking at the firemouths which caught my eye and noticed two of them acting different, almost like a breeding type thing. One is more colorful with longer pointed fins and the other is more dull with rounded fins which I read that some south american species are able to be sexed that way. Does it sound like a pair?


Sounds like a pair but to be on the safe side and also to get a good bonded pair I would get those two and 4 more Firemouths and wait until you know for sure you have a pair!

As far as sexing, the dorsal fin method IMO is very inaccurate! Sexing Firemouths can be very tricky! However, a member on here made a video ALL about sexing Firemouths and his name is Mr.Firemouth! Here is his video! 





I personally though would get the two that look like a pair plus 4 more just to make sure! Good luck! :thumb:


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

I'm not sure what I can add here since it looks like most of the bases have been covered :wink: . 
If it looks like a pair then it probably is however , you really need to ask yourself if that's what you want. FMs and Cons will do alright together for a while but that 29g will get small pretty fast. Especially if they both start to spawn at the same time(deffinately a possibility). Right now I'd just go with one species or the other . once you get a little experience with them (and a bigger tank) then I'd start experimenting with mixing species. Just my 2 cents :wink:


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## Lophura (Jul 18, 2009)

Thanks everyone. So far I still just have the two, I might have to try getting more just to be sure. The feeder guppies I got for them to eat have been reproducing, I had 6 little bitty guppies in there last night and this morning they are gone. Will the firemouths eat the larger guppies? I am already trying to upgrade to a larger tank. I found a 55 gallon with everything for $100 so I am going to put some money down on it today.

What all could I put in the 55 gallon tank? I am thinking I would like something other than convicts and firemouths, I would like a variety but not too much if that makes sence. In other words I want some that still have the classic cichlid shape and not angle fish looking. Any suggestions? When I looked at it it looks like its maybe 1' wide by 1 1/2' tall and looks pretty long. What about decorations? I think it comes with blue gravel, a sunken ship and maybe a couple plants, should I have it heavily planted (well fake plants) around the corners and maybe an opening in the center?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

You're not going to be able to keep much more in a 55 especially wanting to keep a "pair". They just arn't that big or versitile.

PM sent.


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## Lophura (Jul 18, 2009)

Well I went back and got the last 4 that the pet store had. So far the male I had is chasing everyone around except the original I got him with. His color looks amazing right now. How long until I know I have a pair? Once I get the pair I just return the others right?


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

well i have a pair of firemouths still juvies and i had 2 cons together.
1 a little older than the other; had to seperate them but glad i did the juvie con is gorgeous has a yellow coloring to tail blue by gil an underfin an red on side very colorful

but the other a little less due to the pair of firemouths gang up on him since he's larger they stick together an attack him pretty good when he comes near.
just be careful once you get a pair youre either going to have to skip buying fish for that tank once stocked to a limited amount.

or just keep upgrading or adding new tank setups my *** done a no no *** mixed breeds and luckily for me its been fine i have midas an reds an malawis mixed in a couple different tanks but its all on luck

but for the pairng it could take anywhere from the start til however long no time frame its all based on the fish themselves. for mine it tool a week when they realized they should stop attacking eachother an help protect one another.


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## Lophura (Jul 18, 2009)

Thanks. I think once I get a sure pair I am going to return the others, the 29 gallon with the pair looks good enough.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

yes they are great fish beautiful colors an personality will grow just feed them throughout the day 2-3 times in small portions that amount to a 2-3 minute total to keep their aggression down an feed then hikari pellets or anythign that has color enhancements in it an spirulina is always good for their veggie type food but 29 is fine for them just keep some hiding spots an they say a clay pot or something set inside laying down help give them a spawning zone but that could take soime time considering they are still juvies.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Lophura said:


> Well I went back and got the last 4 that the pet store had. So far the male I had is chasing everyone around except the original I got him with. His color looks amazing right now. How long until I know I have a pair? Once I get the pair I just return the others right?


Yep, and you'll know when that time is


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## Lophura (Jul 18, 2009)

So just an update. When I first put the new ones in there was some fighting and lots of hiding. Then later last night they had kinda schooled together near a plant in a corner with the first male going out and darting through the group. Then today there was some more fighting. Then the original female got alot darker and her mate got more color. They chase the others around together. Then the other big male has chosen a mate it looks like. So the first pair took over the cool fake stump thing with the most cover and the other pair are in a cave in the other end and the last 2 just hide. 
Right now they are all around the front, it seems like they have warmed up to me.

So now what? Should I just sell the other pair and odd 2 off and keep the one pair in the tank? Then how long until they spawn on average? Is there anything they would eat extra like mealworms?


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

give it a little more time see if it is a permanent thing wait it out for another week or so at least see if the two continue to get along or if theirs another possible pair.... patience is needed if you want to be happy with your fish afterall they are like part of the family once you have had them for a while


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I'd wait till you see fry then get rid of the rest. As far as how often they will spawn depends on you.


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## Lophura (Jul 18, 2009)

They are all still together with the one dominant pair controling most of the tank. I was wondering how will I know they are getting ready to spawn, does the female get a little belly on her or what?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Sometimes you may notice the female will get fat with eggs. Sometimes you won't. If I intend to get, or should I say, if I _want_ a large spawn I will wait until I've got a proven pair by letting them spawn once or twice then I'll seperate the pair and give them the royal treatment for a month. The best of the best foods, excellent water quality and so on. Then I'll reintroduce the pair when she's fat with eggs. You'll need to exercise some patience. Spawning Firemouths isn't rocket science, and once they start, they're not going to stop!


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## FiremouthShogun (Apr 26, 2006)

Is this all in the 29 or a 55 ?

I kinda lost track. Seems like a lot of fish for a 29.

Good luck to you, excellent fish with great personality.


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## Lophura (Jul 18, 2009)

I have another question about it. I still have 6 in the 29 for now. The dominant pair act like they have fry but there isnt anything there and they have been like it for over a week. Then the less dominant pair have been trying to mate, I saw something that looks like a penis and they acted like they would mate but the dominant male chased them. So I am setting up another 29 gallon and when its ready I am thinking about seperating the two pairs and selling the odd 2. Will the firemouths eat live plants or mystery snails?


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## FiremouthShogun (Apr 26, 2006)

A tube extending could be a female preparing to drop eggs.

FM's will eat snails once they figure out the soft part. Breeding FM's will dig where they choose and can be suprisingly industrious for their size. Plants don't tend to respond well to that behaviour if its dug on their roots. I place heavy rocks around the base of the plants I wish to keep to prevent the FM's from digging pits.


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## Lophura (Jul 18, 2009)

Well I was just feeding blood worms like I always do in the mornings and noticed that the dominant pair was being way more aggressive than normal. Then I looked down and thought I saw bug larvae but it turned out to be babies! There are about 20, they are hanging out in the gravel and are so tiny! What should I do now? Should I move them or leave them in there? All I have is a plain 10 gallon tank with no filter or anything that I can put them in or I have a 29 but I have a couple small calvus in there so I dont want to put them in it.


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## Lophura (Jul 18, 2009)

I got some of the 'baby hide out' plants from Petco and some fry food for them. So far I have seen 2 get eaten but that was when they were in the open, now the parents have moved them to a cave, I put the hideout near it and they are venturing out into it. Any tips or pointers?


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

Congrats on the fry! :dancing: :thumb:

The only thing to do now is just let the pair work together! This is their first spawn and they need to build up their bond! The hardest part of spawning cichlids and fish is getting them to spawn but once when they have and paired off they will do it again and the hard part is done. When a fish spawns in your tank its a very good sign and it means they are comfortable and have clean water and a healthy environment!

As they have more spawns and more practice the better they will get and the more fry you will have. I would leave the fry with the parents for as long as you can! Good luck! :thumb:


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## FiremouthShogun (Apr 26, 2006)

Now would be a great time to make your LT decisions regarding the tank.

Believe it or not the fry will be relatively low maintenance. Unless the parents spawn again they can stay in with them. The other fish you may consider moving as they will get severely stressed by the mating pair. The fry easily have several weeks.

Make sure you have a sponge or nylon covering your filter intakes. Do not overfeed. The fry typically get enough from what you feed the parents.

Keep up with your water changes but be careful to not vacuum up the fry.

If you don't want the fry syphon them into the tnak with the other fish a bit every day. Invariably you will get a few survivors in both tanks.

When the parents are ready to spawn again you would have to conider what to do with the fry at that point. Trade ins for FM's are so great, so either grow them out and get more tanks, feed them to you other fish, trade them in or give them away. A 10g will work for a good amount of time say a few months for the fry when you eventually remove them.

Good luck dude!!


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## Lophura (Jul 18, 2009)

My internt was down so I couldnt get back. I had the filter covered and all but the next morning all the fry were gone. I think the other fish ate them. So I have been trying to find new homes for the others on craigslist, the local stores are full of convicts so they arent taking any new fish at the moment. I am already thinking of new tanks. I was planning on getting another tank, even a 20 long for some Rams with the money I get for the firemouths and old tank stuff I have no use for.

I had brown algea growing in the tank with the FM's so I put like 50 malaysian trumpet snails in the tank. The first couple days were good but then they started getting eaten by the fish. Soon all were gone and I still had algea. I went and got a plecostamos (sp?) and a huge pond snail that is larger than the fish. So I figure if the pleco gets eaten atleast the pond snail will still be alive. The lady at the fish store said that the brown algea is a good thing, means I have a healthy tank and all. Right now I am just doing weekly water changes, I do about 1/8-1/4 of the water depending on the tank conditions.


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