# Setting up Wet Dry, Help



## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Just purchased a Eshopps Wet-Dry Filters WD-150CS. Pump is a 700 GPH Supreme Classic.Seems pretty basic to set up. My main question and concern is how do you set the water level in the sump so that you do not get an overflow when the inevitable power failure occurs. Tanks is a 180 and not drilled, using a HOB box with the smaller overflow box inside the tank. Want to try and set this up today but dont want to end up causing a flood, any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

After everything is installed set the overflow box height near where you want the water level (will probably have to fine tune it later). The water will level out above the U shaped grooves a bit once the siphon is started. Then fill the sump with enough water to reach the bottom of the bioball section. Usually about 4 to 6 inches. Make sure the siphon is started in the overflow and turn on the return pump. Have a bucket of water close so if the level in the sump starts to drop below the bio section too much you can add some water to the tank to bring it back up. You only need enough water in the sump so that the pump doesn't suck air, and to allow for some evaporation.

Eventually the water level in the sump will stop dropping, just keep adding water slowly to keep the pump submersed until that happens. If things don't go right have the plug for the pump close so you can unplug it fast. Just pour water into the tank if the sump drops too fast unless you can get to the sump easily.

Also keep in mind that when the pump is off water will continue to flow into the sump until two things happen. One the water in the tank drops below the U shaped slots in the overflow, and two the water line in the tank drops below the return line from the sump. If you turn it off and it looks like the sump is going to overflow pull the return line up above the water so it sucks air and breaks the siphon.

Once you have things in balance while running you can drill a small hole in the return tube that hangs on the tank just below the water line. That way when the power goes off air will enter there and break the siphon without draining the tank to the bottom of the return nozzle. Wait until you have everything running smooth though before you drill, and make sure you set the overflow box height where you want the tank water line to be.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

b3w4r3 said:


> After everything is installed set the overflow box height near where you want the water level (will probably have to fine tune it later). The water will level out above the U shaped grooves a bit once the siphon is started. Then fill the sump with enough water to reach the bottom of the bioball section. Usually about 4 to 6 inches. Make sure the siphon is started in the overflow and turn on the return pump. Have a bucket of water close so if the level in the sump starts to drop below the bio section too much you can add some water to the tank to bring it back up. You only need enough water in the sump so that the pump doesn't suck air, and to allow for some evaporation.
> 
> Eventually the water level in the sump will stop dropping, just keep adding water slowly to keep the pump submersed until that happens. If things don't go right have the plug for the pump close so you can unplug it fast. Just pour water into the tank if the sump drops too fast unless you can get to the sump easily.
> 
> ...


So a small hole drilled into the plastic of the return nozzle Correct? Should the hole be drilled at approx the same height as the bottom of the u channel on the overflow box or does that matter?


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

You want the hole to be as high as possible while still being below the water line in the tank (tank fill line) so it doesn't spray all over the place. I drill mine with a slight angle down so the water coming out of it sprays down. The tank water will remain at the same height while the pump is running and evaporation will cause the sump water line to drop. Usually the water line in the tank will be above the bottom of the slots in the overflow by 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch depending on how much water the pump is moving, and how many inches across the overflow is.

Drill it as the last thing you do after you have everything running and have the tank water line where you want it. Just remember you may have to lift the return to break the siphon until the hole is drilled.


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

Here's a picture, they say it's worth a thousand words you know :wink: 
Hopefully you can see the hole, its on the left side just below the water.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

b3w4r3 said:


> Here's a picture, they say it's worth a thousand words you know :wink:
> Hopefully you can see the hole, its on the left side just below the water.


Good shot, all cleared up. I'm more of a visual person as well. Thanks! Just removed the 308 and doing a water change, the fun starts next!


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

So the cheap return piece i was complaining about actually had a pre drilled hole. Filled the sump to the fill mark, set up overflow about where I wanted tank water, got the siphon going, plugged in the pump and Wet Dry up and running! :thumb: Very slight adjustment to the overflow box, seems to be all good. I unplugged the pump to see what would happen and the hole in the supply tube worked great breaking the siphon, the overflows let about half the sump fill up before they ran out of water. The only challenge I'm having is the u tubes that supply the hob box from the overflow seem to be building up air at the top of the bend in the tube. Not sure where that is coming from?


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

How strong is the flow coming from the return line? How much head pressure is the pump pushing (distance from pump to top of the tank). I'll try to find specs on your return pump, but it may need to be upgraded to something that pumps more water. The bubbles form as the water falls over the sides of the overflow, if the water is flowing fast enough the bubbles get pulled through, if not they collect at the top which can break the siphon and cause the tank to overflow.

Try shutting off the pump and make sure you suck all the air out of the U tube before starting it back up. Sometimes you can bang the U tube by lifting it up a bit and tapping it down on the rim of the tank. That may clear the bubbles, but if it's cleared and they keep coming back you need a stronger pump.

Do you know what flow rate (GPH) the overflow can handle?


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Flow rate seems pretty strong the pumps chart rates it at 460 GPH at 3' head. I cant find anywhere where it specifically tells me in the literature what this models overflow rate is the only info i have is PF 1000-1000g PF 1200= 1200G. Not much help. I'll keep trying the internet for more info. Could I possibly not have the inside overflow box low enough? I have reset the tubes a couple of times with no air pockets and they seem to keep slowly building up.


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

Are you using two U tubes? If so try just one. I don't think your pump is pushing enough water to need both U tubes. Just observe it for a few minutes to make sure the tank water level stays constant once its running, and it doesn't look like its going to overflow, but I'm sure with <700GHP you will be fine.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

One tube seems to be working so far, no air bubbles. Im calling the LFS tomorrow and going to tell them they probably didnt sell me the appropriate pump, see what they will do on it. Do you think with an undersized pump i'm not getting the full benefit of this setup?


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

It should be ok, but it can handle more flow. You still have 2 canisters on this tank right? Probably a mad drive 12 would be about right for that filter. They are around $150 though, and use 110 watts. Would probably need a 3/4 return with that pump too.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

b3w4r3 said:


> It should be ok, but it can handle more flow. You still have 2 canisters on this tank right? Probably a mad drive 12 would be about right for that filter. They are around $150 though, and use 110 watts. Would probably need a 3/4 return with that pump too.


Yep running the two Eheim 2228 pros as well as the wet dry. I'll see what happens tomorrow with the LFS if they dont do anything to help me out I'll eventually end up selling this pump and picking up either the one your recommend or something similar. I'm guessing at this rate with the total filtration I'm only turning this tank 4x per Hr. I would think I should be doing more than this, do you agree?


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

With a wet/dry I don't think the turnover is as important as it is with a canister or power filter. However a larger pump would suit you better in the long run, especially if you want to run only the wet/dry and one canister down the road. Try to find out the max GPH the overflow can handle, then look for a pump that comes close to that with the head height figured in.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

b3w4r3 said:


> With a wet/dry I don't think the turnover is as important as it is with a canister or power filter. However a larger pump would suit you better in the long run, especially if you want to run only the wet/dry and one canister down the road. Try to find out the max GPH the overflow can handle, then look for a pump that comes close to that with the head height figured in.


Just installed a new pump as per your recommendation. Overflow box was rated for 1000g per hr. Just picked up a larger pump that is pushing 800 GPH with the head height figured in. Things run much better now, a little louder but great water flow and no more trouble with the u tubes losing siphon. I may be able to remove one of the Eheims with all of this water movement but not until the wet dry has had time to mature.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Whats the best way to get the return tubing onto the barbed end of the pump. I'm not happy with how far I have been able to push it onto the barb. I have a plastic clamp on it but if that comes loose there goes 800+ gph real quick! I tried using hot tap water but that barley helped. Should I boil the water, or could I use slight heat from a propane torch LOL?!


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

The ones I have seen are designed for either 1/2 or 3/4 hose. It kind of tapers so if you are using 1/2 inch you won't be able to push it all the way in. I have seen people use Vaseline which seems to be aquarium safe, or silicon grease if you want to try that.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

I'm thinking i may need to build a spray bar for the return on this wet dry. Crazy current with the new pump and think that I could get better directed water flow with a spray bar. Fish seem to be getting used to it, moving around a lot more than they did when I first installed it but 800 GPH is pretty good flow!


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

I'm still having an issue with keeping one of the two u tubes that run the water from the overflow to the hob box running. Even with the addition of the new pump one of the tubes is losing its siphon. I tried playing around with the overflow box and the tube runs for a while but within a couple of hours it loses siphon. Can this be run with just one tube working, what are the disadvantages of one vs two if any? Thoughts?


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

As long as one tube is enough to keep the tank from overflowing you are fine with it. There is no disadvantage, you only need both tubes if one can't handle the pump, but since they run in full siphon the GPH of only one tube is still quite high.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

b3w4r3 said:


> As long as one tube is enough to keep the tank from overflowing you are fine with it. There is no disadvantage, you only need both tubes if one can't handle the pump, but since they run in full siphon the GPH of only one tube is still quite high.


Ok that makes sense. On that note I guess I should break the u tube siphon while the pump is on to see if I will overflow the tank just in case something ever did happen to the siphon. Of course my hand will be on the plug to make sure it doesnt go over. Thanks!


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

It may or may not overflow the tank, if it did it would only be a few gallons at most, depending on the size of the sump and how high it is filled. The pump will start sucking air though when the water level gets within a couple inches of the pump intake spraying bubbles into the tank. Myself I have never had a flood, or a U tube lose siphon in 15 years using wet drys. Occasionally you may have to clean algae out of the U tube. If a large enough fish got into the siphon box they could block the flow causing an accident, but I have only had small fish get into it. They end up in the box outside the tank for me. I have stand pipes in mine with a prefilter sponge though so they can't actually get into the filter.

Something you may notice depending on how the drip tray is set up is that the filter pad will get pretty dirty directly over the holes in the drip tray and not so dirty over the rest of the pad. Also when using polishing pads like 100 micron it may overflow the drip tray if the water can not move through the holes fast enough. I have found that a simple mod will help with this, and keep the dirt spread out over the whole pad instead of just where the holes are. You can cut a piece of eggcrate the same size as the drip tray, and space it off the bottom a little bit, 1/4 inch should be enough. You can cut pvc pipe for the spacers. Then set the pad on the eggcrate, but cut the pad a little bigger than the tray so you can fold it up on the edges to prevent water from running over the side of it. This will let the whole pad filter instead of just over the holes. May not be necessary, but something to keep in mind if you run into problems with it getting clogged too quickly.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

b3w4r3 said:


> It may or may not overflow the tank, if it did it would only be a few gallons at most, depending on the size of the sump and how high it is filled. The pump will start sucking air though when the water level gets within a couple inches of the pump intake spraying bubbles into the tank. Myself I have never had a flood, or a U tube lose siphon in 15 years using wet drys. Occasionally you may have to clean algae out of the U tube. If a large enough fish got into the siphon box they could block the flow causing an accident, but I have only had small fish get into it. They end up in the box outside the tank for me. I have stand pipes in mine with a prefilter sponge though so they can't actually get into the filter.
> 
> Something you may notice depending on how the drip tray is set up is that the filter pad will get pretty dirty directly over the holes in the drip tray and not so dirty over the rest of the pad. Also when using polishing pads like 100 micron it may overflow the drip tray if the water can not move through the holes fast enough. I have found that a simple mod will help with this, and keep the dirt spread out over the whole pad instead of just where the holes are. You can cut a piece of eggcrate the same size as the drip tray, and space it off the bottom a little bit, 1/4 inch should be enough. You can cut pvc pipe for the spacers. Then set the pad on the eggcrate, but cut the pad a little bigger than the tray so you can fold it up on the edges to prevent water from running over the side of it. This will let the whole pad filter instead of just over the holes. May not be necessary, but something to keep in mind if you run into problems with it getting clogged too quickly.


Wow you have a wealth of experience and knowledge! THis is a great mod that I will keep at the ready. I also have the prefilter sponges in the siphon box, they are already collecting a nice amount of gunk. Let me ask another rookie question please, the Bio balls never get cleaned is that correct?

BTW the tank rose up about a half inch when I broke the siphon on the overflow but I had about another 3/4 of an inch at least before it was in danger of running over the top so I think all is well with the current water height all the way around.


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

They shouldn't need cleaning. Some people like to rinse them off occasionally, but it won't be necessary unless you can see stuff clogging them up. For the most part anything that gets past the filter pad falls through the bio balls too. I just siphon it out of the sump where it collects on the bottom.


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

Another tip you may find useful. I mark the high water line on my sump when the pump is shut off, and all the water has stopped flowing into it. Now if you vacuum the debris out of the sump during a water change you can just fill it back to that line. Fill the tank to the bottom of the U grooves in the overflow, and turn the pump on. It should go back to operating level without having to stand at the ready with a bucket.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

b3w4r3 said:


> Another tip you may find useful. I mark the high water line on my sump when the pump is shut off, and all the water has stopped flowing into it. Now if you vacuum the debris out of the sump during a water change you can just fill it back to that line. Fill the tank to the bottom of the U grooves in the overflow, and turn the pump on. It should go back to operating level without having to stand at the ready with a bucket.


Lol, I just did a water change and was trying to figure that out. The sump level was half way up the Bio Balls and I had to end up scooping out about two buckets worth. Thanks for the tip!!!


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

b3w4r3 said:


> Another tip you may find useful. I mark the high water line on my sump when the pump is shut off, and all the water has stopped flowing into it. Now if you vacuum the debris out of the sump during a water change you can just fill it back to that line. Fill the tank to the bottom of the U grooves in the overflow, and turn the pump on. It should go back to operating level without having to stand at the ready with a bucket.


Just wanted to let you know how much I love the new wet dry! So easy to maintain, the larger pump has made a huge difference in my water, its crystal clear almost like the fish are floating on air. Cleaned the filter in it and could not believe how much material was trapped in the filter fabric!! Dont know what my resistance was to adding one of these for so long. Just good stuff!! :thumb:


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

Glad it's going well. I think a lot of people compare wet drys to canister filters by looks alone. Side by side a wet dry isn't all that impressive looking. The slight learning curve and misunderstandings on how they work also make canisters or hob filters the easier plug and play option. In the end though ease of maintenance and the ability to maintain good water quality is where the wet dry shines. I see too many people try to over complicate filtration, and just create more work for themselves.

So good luck man, welcome to the dark side lol. I know it will serve you well :thumb:


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## matt121966 (Mar 6, 2012)

great thread, thanks for all the information.


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