# Venustus and Mbuna



## 330fishguy (Feb 14, 2012)

Will a venustus do OK with mild mannered mbuna? I'm stocking a 120 gal. and think yellow labs, rusties, acei, and something blue (socolofi or cobalt blues). If I stock these species as juvies with a juvie venustus or two do I need to worry about the Venustus growing so quickly that it considers my mbuna a snack? Will they do ok long term?


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

I can only tell you of my experience to date, I have a Venustus, maybe 2 inches now, was smaller when I purchased it maybe 5 or 6 weeks ago. I also have a mixture of Mbuna from 3/4 inch up to 3 inch and I haven't seen anyone mess with the Venustus nor any tails hanging out of the Venustus mouth 

You may get comments from others with contrary experiences to mine and I'll be honest mine was an impulse purchase, they are such good looking fish! I also have a friend up the road with a Venustus in a tank full of yellow labs and some other Mbuna (I forget which) all of which he has had for over 5 years, excepting the smaller Mbuna that have hatched and grown in that very tank.

I may get shot down for saying it but my take is if you are prepared to remove the Venustus if things go wrong for you then why not enjoy the fish and maybe you will be lucky too


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It takes about 2 years with haps to know if a mix is going to work. They take longer to mature, and you can't tell much before everyone in the tank is mature.

I've heard if the hap is mature and established and you later add juvie mbuna, a lot of combinations will work.

I'd actually be more worried about the mbuna harassing the venustus since they are so rambunctious, but I guess once the hap is big he ignores them like annoying mosquitoes. :thumb:


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## Thatfishkid7 (Mar 19, 2012)

Yeah, that will work just avoid any more agressive species like johanni or auratus.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

As long as this isn't a 4ft long tank...


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

I had one with a bunch of male mbuna in a 135 gallon and he did okay, though I wouldn't repeat the mix myself because the venustus just didn't seem right in there. Mine was about the same size as my tank boss (the other biggest fish in the tank). He did occasionally have a nip out of one pectoral fin or the other and spent most of his time trying to avoid the rowdiness of the mbuna which is not something I enjoy watching.

So for me personally the answer would be yes you can get one to live with mbuna just fine in a larger tank, but no, they don't really reach the sheer moody pugnaciousness of the mbuna enough for me to enjoy watching one in a mbuna tank. My personal preference, but when my venustus was in, he was cruising from one side of the tank to the other leaping over and ducking under jet turbine engines that were zipping around him, squabbling, and chasing each other, and it doesn't work for me. I found myself feeling sorry for him. If he's going to have to be in the middle of brawl central, I'd rather have him flex his muscles occasionally than have to keep his dorsal fin clamped down all the time and swim harried from one side of the tank to the other. Not that I ever saw him REALLY get picked on. Definitely nothing life threatening, I just got the impression he was constantly trying to find a quieter place in the tank (that didn't exist...).


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

riverpaws said:


> If he's going to have to be in the middle of brawl central, I'd rather have him flex his muscles occasionally than have to keep his dorsal fin clamped down all the time and swim harried from one side of the tank to the other.


Fully agreed. Right now I watch mine swim around seemingly unperturbed and from time to time sitting in the center of the tank stretching its fins and just sitting there looking like it thinks it's in charge. Still not sure it its male or not, so still referring to 'it'.

My Borleyi on the other hand, he definitely thinks he's the boss and apart from the alpha male Johanni, he is the largest fish so may well be. I haven't seen him get into it with anyone, again he just swims around checking things out and displaying from time to time


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

That's a cool looking fish, Jayliffe. What size is he?

My venustus was about six to seven inches long (not fully grown yet), everything else in the tank 4-6" except the dominant OB zebra male who was a good 7 inches at least and very thick. I had some of the more aggressive mbuna (not kenyi or auratus, mine were aggressive but not devil children) so if you've got mbuna that are a little less raucous I definitely see it working if that's what you like. It's just not for me.

As a side note: It was also much more fun to watch the venustus in there when everyone was smaller (2-4"). Everyone pretty much just left him alone when they were that size and since he was bigger, he even started getting a big head a little until "Cow", the OB football, took him down.


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

riverpaws said:


> That's a cool looking fish, Jayliffe. What size is he?


 Thanks  Right now he's about 3 1/2 inches, was probably about 2 when I got him and didn't know male/female. I took another pic of him a couple of days ago but it's blurry, the shock was how blue his face looked in it and he has a lot more yellow along the sides now too.

My Johanni is also about 3 1/2 inches and definitely the most agressive in the tank right now, he spent a fair amount of time chasing down the other larger Johanni (I just added 6 more sub 2 inch).

I've read several comments about my stock list along the lines of 'just wait until they are actually mature and then see' so I am aware that things can, and will change over time. I have a 55 set up behind the main tank for quarantine when it becomes necessary.


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

Sounds like you got lucky with a male. :thumb: Not that I know anything about them, but seeing yours, I really think they're cool!

I think anything's worth a shot (within reason  ), as long as you have a back up plan. That was my first mistake with my 135 gallon all male four years ago.  Sounds like you're much more informed than I was.

BTW, what is the handsome fish in your avatar, Jayliffe? I've been wondering for awhile now. Not a lab, is it? Looks really thick for a lab?


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

riverpaws said:


> Sounds like you got lucky with a male. Not that I know anything about them, but seeing yours, I really think they're cool!


Yes, I totally lucked out there, was the last one left in my LFS, I just liked it even then with no body colour...didn't even know how different the males look! I can't wait til he finishes changing



riverpaws said:


> BTW, what is the handsome fish in your avatar, Jayliffe? I've been wondering for awhile now. Not a lab, is it? Looks really thick for a lab?


That one is a Johanni, one I had assumed was female since its the same size as my male and hasn't changed colour at all (yet). That said, now I added the six smaller ones, i'm seeing some changes in behavior so I'm questioning that now. Plus of my original batch, that one is the only suspected female that's not holding.


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## 330fishguy (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies. My tank is a 5 footer. Will that be enough room?

It sounds like it may work pretty well with more docile mbuna. Absolute worst case (besides homicide) would result in me taking him back across the street where he came from and I would be out 8 bucks. I think I'll give it a shot and hopefully get my tank fully stocked sometime next week.


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

Good luck with your stocking, hope everything goes well for you


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

I think 5 feet is enough. Good luck!


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

> That one is a Johanni, one I had assumed was female since its the same size as my male and hasn't changed colour at all (yet). That said, now I added the six smaller ones, i'm seeing some changes in behavior so I'm questioning that now. Plus of my original batch, that one is the only suspected female that's not holding.


Ah. Johanni. Now it all makes sense. :thumb: Thanks for clearing that up for me.


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

riverpaws said:


> > That one is a Johanni, one I had assumed was female since its the same size as my male and hasn't changed colour at all (yet). That said, now I added the six smaller ones, i'm seeing some changes in behavior so I'm questioning that now. Plus of my original batch, that one is the only suspected female that's not holding.
> 
> 
> Ah. Johanni. Now it all makes sense. :thumb: Thanks for clearing that up for me.


Update on the Johanni, definitely a bit swollen in the throat area so it looks like she finally gave in to the bully boy  Unless I am totally mistaken, that makes a Lab, a Zebra and a Johanni holding now


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

So 330fishguy, we totally hyjacked your thread. Is your tank 72" long?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I have one of these about 4" now in a mixed tank 6x2x2 foot. He is a right pain and I am going to sell him. Funny enough I use to keep a 12" guy in with Mbuna in a 5 foot x18"x18" without problems. Bit of a lottery would be my guess.

All the best James


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> So 330fishguy, we totally hyjacked your thread. Is your tank 72" long?


  yeah, sorry 330fishguy


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## 330fishguy (Feb 14, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> So 330fishguy, we totally hyjacked your thread. Is your tank 72" long?


No, it is 60". Will that be enough room?


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## 330fishguy (Feb 14, 2012)

JAyliffe said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> > So 330fishguy, we totally hyjacked your thread. Is your tank 72" long?
> ...


no worries


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## mcbdz (Jul 5, 2011)

My Venny can hold his own with the baddest of the bad Kenyi. Of course this is a 240gal 8ft tank. :thumb: :fish: :fish:


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

Whoa!


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## r-fishies (Jan 2, 2012)

I LOVE those pics! I have those fish too & the Kenyi is always picking fights, that is funny. Mine never gives up, his nose is in a constant state of looking like **** from fighting. He loses to my Socolofi(Blue), Greshaki(Grey), and now the Red Zebra joins in sometimes. He hasn't taken on the V yet. The Borleyi is the biggest-about 7", 2 Venustus(luckily I got a pair) are about 5" now. I am enjoying them in the tank. She was holding twice now but spit early I guess, didn't witness it but all of a sudden 'not'. Not sure why, but they are still very young. 
So far my crazy mix is doing well, but I have lots of rock & good sized tank. By the time they all grow out it will be plenty full. Always interesting for sure.


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