# I'm going to mix African & Central



## MeCasa (Apr 5, 2014)

I posted this in this forum because it didn't fit any of the others.

I've been raising cichlids since before the internet told me how to and I was mixing Africans and Cental Americans since before I knew I couldn't. Back then we didn't have all these specific species of Africans, we had general labels such as 'African Mouthbreeder'

My point is, it worked then and I see NO reason it won't work now. Will I have some deaths, starting a large cichlid almost precludes that there will be some deaths. Let's face it, we're putting fish into a tank who really don't want to be together.

That said, I'd like some opinions on what size to buy. I want an all male tank but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to sex at 1 1/4 yet that's the best size to buy so that they will learn to accept each other. I do live near a large city and I'm willing to go to a dozen different stores if necessary.

Here's my lineup

Fire Mouth Cichlid - Thorichthys meeki
Jack Dempsey - Rocio octofasciatum
Cobalt Blue Zebra - Metriaclima callainos
Electric Yellow - Labidochromis caeruleus
Green terror - 'Aequidens' sp. "Goldsaum"
Jewel Cichlid - Hemichromis bimaculatus
Convict Cichlid - Amatitlania nigrofasciata
Red Zebra Cichlid - Metriaclima estherae

Mods, move this if you think best, but don't move me to the Africans, my favorite fish is a Jack and he would be insulted.

MeCasa
150 gallons

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## MeCasa (Apr 5, 2014)

EDIT: those who post to show your displeasure, make it quick and keep it civil. If you want to debate 'mixing' please start your own thread. I want intelligent advice on buying cichlids.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm assuming this is the 150G tank in your signature, correct? What are the dimensions again?


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## MeCasa (Apr 5, 2014)

Hello Deeda,

The tank is 72 X 18 X 28 and it is built specifically for good hiding spots and set territories.

Natural PH 8 - 8.2 and quartz sand bottom.


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## Demasoni1 (Apr 9, 2014)

Good luck!


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## dbradley26 (Apr 22, 2014)

If you mix Africans and Americans, a fish [email protected]'s head will explode.


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## MeCasa (Apr 5, 2014)

You do know that you're goin to h*ll for that? :lol:


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Well the only fish on the list I have practical experience with are the jewels and the cobalt. My experience with the jewels started well, 6 juvies in a 55gal had a pair form within 2 weeks and a spawn that's when things went sour. The male was very large 5"or so and he'd picked the smallest of the females who was half his size, not long after the fry were free swimming he was ready to get jiggy again and she wasn't and I come down one morning to find her dead. He also ate anything that fit in his mouth (normal I know) but also took chunks out of anything that wouldn't. 
After some discussion with others it would seem he was exceptionally pshyco and not necessarily representative of the species as a whole. Beautiful fish though 
The cobalts I've just started with and are going exceptionally well, I've only removed one male so far and that was because he was a hybrid no other reason. I have two coloured up males in my tank they have half the tank each and for the most leave each other alone with the occasional lip locking battle in the middle of the tank there is also a third male who switches his colour on when the other two aren't looking but I've not seen him singled out and harassed yet so don't feel the need to pull him. These guys are around the 4"mark and not a single ragged fin on any of the 11 cobalts in the tank.

As for what you're attempting you've got plenty of space as long as you have enough sight breaks and hidy holes it could work, from all the reading I've done my only concern (apart from you getting a pshyco) on your list would be the convict.
Probably not terribly helpful but you never know.


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## Cichlid Debby (Mar 21, 2014)

I have kept all of the fish on your list at some point except for the JD. 
Never combined the east and west though.
The FM's and Cons have been all over the spectrum as with the zebras. The GT's never seemed to live up to their name.
I think this is all going to boil down to individual fish personality. Could be a lot of trial and error here.
The yellow Lab, is the one I would be most concerned about, It might not be able to hold it's own.

As for the PH of 8.2, my tap water is the same, my SA and CA fish have adjusted to it very well.
Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm not going to comment on the mix, as I've seen worse that worked. However, I find it funny that you have very current names on all the fish except the Green Terror. The genus was changed 5 years ago, so the correct name is fairly well known these days. The Gold Saum is _Andinoacara rivulatus_, turned out they actually were the real _rivulatus_. The reason for the name Green Terror is because the first species imported was actually _Andinoacara stalsbergi_ (took almost 40 years before they were described). This species makes Gold Saum seem like a pussycat, they truly are Terrors.

There have been other threads here about mixing continents. Some have worked, some haven't. Given the size of your tank, I think your biggest problem could be - the Convict. Good Luck!


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

I too once mixed some African and CA cichlids way back when. It wasn't an issue but there weren't mbuna. Now I can't imagine why you would want to.


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## MeCasa (Apr 5, 2014)

Thanks for the help.

What I'm the most curious about is sizing and sexing. I've raised at least half of these and it's almost impossible to sex before 2". Yet 2" fish are more aggressive, harder to come by and more expensive.

However, if ya'll think it's worth the effort to find larger fish I can do it.

I want good specimens, pets live in my house till death do us part which is why I said **** NO to the ferrets

I should have drawn the line with birds, by the time my wife was done I owned 100+ birds :roll:

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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

If you can try rehoming others excess males. Or order online from someone who knows how to sex them.


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

Can these fish x-breed ? If so, will be very interested in how they will look like and their personalities.

Go for it !!


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

MeCasa said:


> I posted this in this forum because it didn't fit any of the others.
> 
> I've been raising cichlids since before the internet told me how to and I was mixing Africans and Cental Americans since before I knew I couldn't. Back then we didn't have all these specific species of Africans, we had general labels such as 'African Mouthbreeder'
> 
> ...


I've had a mixed African/CA tank (6' 110gallons) now since December. 6 JD's, 4 Firemouths, 5 Mbunas (Cobalts and hybrids?), a bristlenosed pleco and a Chinese algae eater. There's lots of chasing, but not one ripped up fin or other visible sign of aggression on any of the fish. Check out my videos. they're in my sigline.
Good luck. Oh, and I started all of them as juveniles.


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

BillD said:


> I too once mixed some African and CA cichlids way back when. It wasn't an issue but there weren't mbuna. Now I can't imagine why you would want to.


I can tell you why I mixed them. I had a 110 gallon tank with juvenile JDs and Firemouths that stayed hidden all day. I went looking for dithers and was sold 5 Mbunas for $1.00 each that were very active in their display tank. I asked the LFS manager if they were raised in "special water" and she said they all shared one common system. So, without a water concern, I brought them home and all of my other fish came out of hiding. That was about 6 months ago now.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

BillD said:


> Now I can't imagine why you would want to.


Time and time and time again..... IME mouth brooder and substrate spawner have proven to generally make better tank mates. I keep all aggressive species. Sometimes similar fishes just make poor tank mates!

Since I have come to this forum in 2007 (over 7 years ago) I have had the following casualties in my 6 tanks:
Male salvini kill female salvini.
Female salvini kill female salvini.
Female salvini kill female jewel.
Male dovii X festae hybrid kill female salvini and bite the tail right off another female salvini.
Male blackbelt (7") kill male convict (6").
Male bumblebee kill female bumble bee.
Male bumble bee kill male bumble bee.
Male kenyi hybrid kill female kenyi hybrid.
Auratus absolutely massacre each other....until only one remained!
Auratus kill small pleco.
Male blue gourami kill 2 female blue gouramis on separate occasions.

Sometimes the signs were there....but I failed to act. Hind sight is 20/20. Other times I moved fish around because of excessive chasing, ect. All my tanks are mixed....and over the last 4 decades, virtually all of the serious aggression problems that have ever occurred are between substrate spawner and substrate spawner, or mouth brooder and mouth brooder. Even more so amongst the same species. IME, long term, mixing usually works out better!


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## MeCasa (Apr 5, 2014)

Hear hear!!! :thumb:

That's what I like to hear


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Let's keep the open forum discussion focused on fish keeping. If you feel the need to exchange jokes of questionable taste, PM might be a better venue, as long as the recipient takes no offense.


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

BC in SK said:


> BillD said:
> 
> 
> > Now I can't imagine why you would want to.
> ...


I'm starting to have the same experience. I have 6 JDs, 4 Firemouths and 5 Mbunas, including at least one Cobalt Blue, and most likely some hybrids. The only aggression that is starting to take place is the male cobalt blue attacking other mbunas. No aggression between CA and Africans at all.


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## MeCasa (Apr 5, 2014)

100% success so far. I managed to find and buy all the fish after a well choreographed six store one day shoparama. Every species is between 1 1/4" and 1 3/4"and everybody is healthy.

I know they're all juvies and behavior will change but for now they all have their new territories and are actually swimming together as a school. They particularly like the water jets where they line up as if they're going on a Six Flags Roller Coaster and take turns swimming into the current just to get flipped away. 11 fish total (including plecos in a 150)

My Granddaughter is ecstatic, every fish has a profile in the computer complete with picture, common name, species name and her private name.

I want to thank everybody who helped.

MeCasa


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

Which fish did you get ?

I currently have 2 blood parrots, I love this duo, mixed with haps/peacocks. After a few days of bluffing each other, they are all swimming and eating in harmony !!

Even got a baby flowerhorn thru a friend. Got him/her in a tank with peacocks, they do not even pay attention to each other.


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## MeCasa (Apr 5, 2014)

I filled my list as per except I added a Pink Convict; a BristleNose and a Siamese Algae. I'm lucky to live an hour from a big city like Houston as I went to six large Aquatic stores in one day. I only have 11 fish in a 150 so I may add 1 or 2 more if I find something good looking and compatible (8.2 ph)



Fire Mouth Cichlid - Thorichthys meeki
Jack Dempsey - Rocio octofasciatum
Cobalt Blue Zebra - Metriaclima callainos
Electric Yellow - Labidochromis caeruleus
Green terror - 'Aequidens' sp. "Goldsaum"
Jewel Cichlid - Hemichromis bimaculatus
Convict Cichlid - Amatitlania nigrofasciata
Red Zebra Cichlid - Metriaclima estherae

Pink Convict - Amatitlania nigrofasciata
Bristlenose Pleco - Ancistrus sp
Siamese Algae Eater - Crossocheilus oblongus


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## MeCasa (Apr 5, 2014)

That tank was designed by my 12 year old Granddaughter, it's her version of Aquatic Disneyland. I'm proud of her, she worked hard and she loves these fish


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

MeCasa ---- nice.

Keep us updated !!


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

MeCasa said:


> I filled my list as per except I added a Pink Convict; a BristleNose and a Siamese Algae. I'm lucky to live an hour from a big city like Houston as I went to six large Aquatic stores in one day. I only have 11 fish in a 150 so I may add 1 or 2 more if I find something good looking and compatible (8.2 ph)


Your list is similar to mine. The diference is mine are 7-8 months older:

4 Fire Mouth Cichlid - Thorichthys meeki
6 Jack Dempsey - Rocio octofasciatum
2 Cobalt Blue Zebra - Metriaclima callainos
3 Hybrid Mbunas
1 Bristlenose Pleco - Ancistrus sp
1 Siamese Algae Eater - Crossocheilus oblongus

Some of the things that I've experienced are: same species aggression, mostly chasing though. Inter-species aggression is limited to occasional half-hearted chasing by Cobalt.
Big male JD goes anywhere he pleases, but does not display his dominance. The rest just know he's the boss because he's freakishly large compared to the others.
Male Cobalt digs a lot and intermittently defends his territory vehemently, other times he's just one of the guys. I think he's schizophrenic. 
Firemouths are starting to determine a pecking order between the four of them. I'm guessing most are male. They color up and flare their gills at each other, but no nipping.
Nobody bothers the pleco. He's fish non grata. 
The algae eater gets chased occasionally and will occasionally chase another fish. He doesn't fear any other fish.
I have lots of "caves" and hiding places in my 6' long tank, but more timid fish rarely take advantage of them during the day.

I thought about adding some Jewels, too, but I fear it's too late now.
Good luck with your mixed Cichlid tank.


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## MeCasa (Apr 5, 2014)

The Electric Yellow would add some beautiful color contrast, I like the Jewel but I wish it retained color a little more.

But like you said

It may be too late and that is the only thing I've always disliked about cichlids, it would be nice to occasionally add some new stock :-?


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