# GT or Blue Acara



## Paulie91 (Feb 5, 2011)

Hi guys, 
Title speaks for itself, i tried reading on how to differentiate the two, but still can't put my finger on it.


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## Paulie91 (Feb 5, 2011)




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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

GT or cross. I think.


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## exasperatus2002 (Jul 5, 2003)

not a blue acara.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Using the old still used but now obsolite classification.
Aequidens pulcher should look like this









Aequidens rivulatus or GT









The fish posted kind of looks like a dull vertion of something half way between?

I guess it could be a young pure GT with very little colour but dought it. It is not pure Blue acara as these do not have that tail fin band when young or as adults.

It is kind of years since I bred these guys but a lot of what I see these days look like various crosses of Aequidens/Andinoacara species and variants.

Kind of look up wild types under thier new namer of Andinoacara.

All the best James


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Green terror. Why is anyone suggesting an in between GT X blue acara :x :x :x What blue acara traits does this fish have?? You rift lake cichlid people should stick to identifying the rift lake cichlids. OMG, you guys think anything that doesn't look 100% like the few individuals you have happened to have seen, is somehow a hybrid :lol: :lol: from my perspective, absolutely rediculous and pathetic!!!!


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

bernie comeau said:


> Green terror. Why is anyone suggesting an in between GT X blue acara :x :x :x What blue acara traits does this fish have?? You rift lake cichlid people should stick to identifying the rift lake cichlids. OMG, you guys think anything that doesn't look 100% like the few individuals you have happened to have seen, is somehow a hybrid :lol: :lol: from my perspective, absolutely rediculous and pathetic!!!!


Lack of colour and a deeper body than most GTs. Not rocket science. These guys have been around for years and crossed for years. I should know I did it 20 years ago. 

Love the way SA guys think all aquarium SA cichlids are pure but this has not been the case for over 20 years. :wink:

All the best James


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

It's a green terror. I, also, don't see why anyone would suggest a cross.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Guys what species and variant is a GT?
Kind of look it up. Google if you have to.
Think you will find that it is unidentifiable as a species and variant of any Andinoacara in the wild. :wink:

All the best James


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

24Tropheus said:


> Lack of colour and a deeper body than most GTs. Not rocket science. These guys have been around for years and crossed for years. I should know I did it 20 years ago.


1st of all, a GT typically gets much more deep bodied then then a blue acara.

Lack of color so it is obviously a cross witha blue acara?? :lol: :lol: Thre are 1000 different shades of color this fish can be based on mood, state, status, age, sex ect. Not to mention aquarium lighting and the fact that it is a picture. Only one picture! It's not a rift lake cichld that stays one color and doesn't change much according to mood :lol: :lol:, from what is considered typical.

Regardless, the fish is quite typical of what a young GT often looks like. Absolutely no reason to supose it is a cross with a blue acara, as the fish has no traits of a blue acara.....unless you have seen the parents and know that it is in fact, such a cross.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

24Tropheus said:


> Guys what species and variant is a GT?


Andinoacara rivulatus. The color of the fin trim can be white, yellow, orange......it has been shown to be a polymorphic trait, that varies from one individual to another even from the same collection point. According to the Cichlid room companion there are only 2 species of GT: Andinoacara rivulatus and Andinoacara stalsbergi......and the fish in question is obviously not A. stalsbergi as it does not have the reverse scale pattern.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Well I guess it could be a young poorly coloured Andinoacara stalsbergi. Variant unknown. I for sure would not bet my house on it (unless from a confirmed source) crosses and TB and line bred guys being far more common, at least here in the UK, unless from a source you can trust.

Kind of interested how it will turn out. :wink:

Kind of a bit cross about the rift jibe. I think there are more SA and CA crosses about in LFSs that folk guess are pure which are far from pure. Only takes one guy to get a pair of SAs from one unreliable source (or better still one from two) and he can produce 500 fry and grow em on to sell each month from a single dodgy pair!

Given the odds I would if looking for a pair to breed from get em from a reliable dealer or better still an importer you can trust. :wink:

Given the look of these guys why is Andinoacara coeruleopunctatus not the most common it the hobby or trade rather than dodgy Andinoacara stalsbergi? I guess the SA breeders should get going. :lol:

All the best James


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

24Tropheus said:


> Well I guess it could be a young poorly coloured Andinoacara stalsbergi.


As if the fish is an A. stalsbergi!! It doesn't have the reverse scale pattern, so how can the fish be A. stalsbergi?? One can clearly see from the picture that the fish has the typical scale pattern of your common, everday, green terror.( A. rivulatus)

By the way, most LFS get their fish from the wholesalers.......not from private aquarists crossing green terrors with blue acara. tThe big chains, or big box stores won't even take fry from local aquarists anymore.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

US wholesalers being far more reliable than hobbiests. :lol: 
The wholesalers sell what the breeding farms in Florida have to breed and sells well mate.
And this is no pure rivulatus or stalsbergi IMO though I could be wrong. Many hybrids look like iether parent and think that any fish that has gone through the Florida fish farm to wholesaler to LFS shop is at least suspect. 

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Kind of being looking up the difference between these two.
Not convinced about anything but have you guys seen this?
http://www.alice-dsl.net/mesonauta/Andinoacara_ISRM.pdf

For sure not something I would expect folk or your LFS or wholesaler or breeder to pick up on.
To be honest pretty rubbish evidence (without DNA back up) for em being different species rather than regional variants in the first place? 

All the best James


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Actually, looks like a young gold saum to me, a currently undescribed species that according to rumors will be named _Andinoacara aequinoctalis_ according to acara guru Alf Stalsberg. No reason to suspect blue acara at all in it. This is the species most commonly called a green terror today.

Deffinately not an _A. stalsburgi_ since as *bernie* mentioned, it doesn't have the reverse scale pattern. This was the fish first imported as 'green terror' and also known as 'silbersaum' in the hobby before it's description.

And since _A. rivulatus_ has never been imported (according to the new breakdown of _Andinoacara_ scientific articles), we can rule that species out as well.

Kind of surprised no one mentioned the OP's fish is still quite young and thus not fully colored up yet though *bernie* did hint at that fact.

*bernie* - you forgot the edging can be red too. :thumb:

*24Tropheus* - The pic of a GT you posted deffinately is obsolete in terms of it's name. That would be a silver/white saum (at least in most of the US - _A. aequinoctalis_ ... if that name holds up). The scientific articles did include DNA studies that seperated them, I have botht he one describing the genus and the one describing _A. stalsbergi_.

And yes, _Andinoacara coeruleopunctatus_ should be the most common blue acara becuase it's much prettier than _A. latifrons_ or _A. pulcher_, but _A. coeruleopunctatus_ is the rarest on this side of the pond. Virtually unseen sadly.

Anyone interested can read how we tried to sort out the 3 green terror species here: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=205134&start=30

Think I got everything ... not sure though, needed a lot of coffee to get through this thread. :lol:


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

dwarfpike said:


> Actually, looks like a young gold saum to me, a currently undescribed species that according to rumors will be named _Andinoacara aequinoctalis_ according to acara guru Alf Stalsberg.
> 
> And since _A. rivulatus_ has never been imported (according to the new breakdown of _Andinoacara_ scientific articles), we can rule that species out as well.


Yes, I am aware that a distinction is made by some, between, a 'goldsaum' and a a GT from Rio Esmeraldos. Some still consider the 'gold saum' an undescribed species, or as Alf stalsberg is calling the 'goldsaum', A. aequinoctalis.

But I follow the Cihlid Room Companion (CRC). And would advocate that others do the same, just so aquarists can all be on the same page in regards to names. The CRC no longer regards the common 'goldsaum' as an undescribed species, but rather one and the same as A. rivulatus. They claim that Rio Esmeraldo was never specifically the type locality, but rather a much more general area, and that A. aequinoctalis is a synonm of A. rivulatus.
http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=4


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## Paulie91 (Feb 5, 2011)

Thankyou everyone for your help. I will assume that it is in fact a GT and treat him/her accordingly. Ill let you know if something pertinent crops up as the fish ages , since it is still very young.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

So all agreed? Common young GT which is _A. aequinoctalis_ if you accept this species name as valid?

All the best James


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## simo1973 (Jul 22, 2007)

yep, i have had loads of them and have one now,a young GT it is..


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