# 300 gallon tank mates



## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

hi all im trying to decided on what to stock in my 300 gallon tank that i will be building soon. the tank will measure 72" long 36" wide and have a water height of 27" for a grand total of around 280 gallons but with sump it will be around 300. i am planing about 4x turnover rate, using PFS and drift wood and some rocks for decoration.

so my initial thoughts are:
a tiger oscar
a few firemouths
a few severums
a few Jack Dempseys
perhaps a few bala sharks

so what do you think of my fish choices? could i keep others? if so what would look cool and work well?

i have been keeping mbanas and peacocks for two years and learned the hard way of what works with them, so i want to do this tank right the first time


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## jonjoker (Jan 14, 2012)

i'll add a couple of rainbows and sajicas


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

You have a lot of options with a tank that size, however it is still only a 6ft tank. If your making the tank, have you thought about maybe making it 7 or 8ft long and shortening the width? A tank 3ft wide will be pretty difficult to clean, plus I feel a longer length would be preferred by the fish over the extra width.

As for your mentioned stock, I think it could work well. Nothing overly aggressive in that list, however sine your wanting multiples of the same species you are most likely wanting pairs, correct? I would not have a "few" (meaning 3). I would stick with just pairs otherwise the unpaired fish will most likely have a lot of aggression directed towards it. So maybe something like this...

1x Oscar
4x Firemouths (2 pairs)
2x Severums (1 pair)
2x Jack Dempseys (1 pair)

You could then round out your stock with some sort of schooling fish such as Silver Dollars or Filament Barbs...


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

Since you are going for aren't going for an aggressive tank, and you aren't opposed to mixing from different areas, I'd only do 1 male JD instead of a pair. I'd keep the 1 pair of Severums and 1 pair of FM, with a pair of Rainbow cichlids. And I'd add a harem of Copadichromis Borleyi, fromLake Malawi. It's a relatively peaceful Utaka (open water plankton/invertebrate eater) that grows to about 8 inches. There are a few color varieties available on the market. You could also just do a single male. One of the really great things about this species...it will help eat the small food particles that will be spewed from the Oscar's gills. The fish is also very outgoing and is a mid water swimmer. Even when breeding, they are relative peaceful. They are also pretty fast growing.


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

yea i think pairs would be best im still debating the jack Dempsey. i really like the rainbow and the sajica.

so what do you think of 
1 oscar
2 firemouth
2 severum
2 rainbow
2 sajica
1 jack dempsey
5 bala shark

also for the tank size i am kinda confined to that size based on the wall we are putting the tank on i could perhaps add a foot to the length but thaw would be it. im not overly concerned with the cleaning part i have pretty long arms


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

what would be a good clean up crew for this tank?


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

so doing some more research and i keep finding lots of cool looking fish so here it is now

1 oscar
2 firemouth
2 Hypsophrys Nicaraguansis
2 rainbow
2 sajica
1 jack
5 bala shark


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

That stock list could potentially work, although when the 4 pairs begin spawning you may run into some problems with aggression. The way you scape the tank will strongly dictate how well everyone gets along. You simply won't know until you try it though, so give it a go and remove fish as needed. I would definitely add a foot to the length as well if possible.

I personally would replace the Bala Sharks with Silver Dollars. The SDs stay smaller and won't contribute as much to your bioload. I also I feel they will fair better with the cichlids. I would then remove the lone male JD and the pair of rainbows in place of a pair of Hypsophrys nicaraguensis.

I'm not really a firm believe in adding a "clean up crew" as they create their own fair share of waste. The majority of your cichlids will sift and eat off the substrate so bottom feeders like catfish are not really needed. The extent of my "clean up crews" is a single Bristle Nose Pleco. That's all I would suggest for your tank as well unless you simply WANT a catfish.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Ah you posted before I submitted my post! I see you added a pair of Nics to your stocklist, good choice! I have a pair in my 135gal and they are definitely my favorite fish in my tank. I would still reccomend the SD's over the Balas however...


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

ok i think i have my stock list then.

i really like the balas and have not had a tank big enough for them so i would like to try and keep them. what would you think of a raphael cat or two in this tank?

here is a pic of the stump i have for the tank. it is huge measuring about 5 feet long 28 inches tall and 20 inches wide


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

so i measured it out and the max length and width i can go is 78x36


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

That's an awesome piece of driftwood, great find! Are you having someone make you the aquarium out of glass or acrylic or are you doing something like a DIY plywood tank?


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

diy plywood and glass. im hoping to start the stand next weekend


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Very cool, be sure to post progression pics!

Also forgot to mention in my previous post... Raphael Cats would be a good choice if you were wanting a catfish, however you may never see them as they are quite reclusive!


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

well i have to say thank you for your help i am defiantly looking forward to starting this tank. what do you feed your fish? i will have a build thread going on another forum and if you want i can send you the link to it once i get it going. its just one of the those things that trying to update two different forums is a pain.

also i will have one other inhabitant in the tank that most people scoff at which is a western painted turtle. he did great with my mbanas so i dont foresee any issues with him in this tank


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I feed my cichlids a variety of pellets consisting of NLS Thera A, Hikari Cichlid Gold, Hikari Sinking Wafers and Hikari Sinking Carnivore Pellets.

Where is your build thread at, MFK?

I actually have kept MANY aquatic turtles over the years as that's actually all I use to keep. I have slowly been downsizing and am down to two aquariums. I am finding I enjoy cichlids more so I have sold off all but one of my turtles, which is a Razorback Musk. I found it hard to create a nice cichlid tank when trying to have a turtle in the tank as well. They are very destructive and require a basking area and UVB as I'm sure you know...


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

yep in the diy section. yea i know all about the requirements for the turtle have had him for 2 years now. i have a unique idea for the basking area. it will be a part of the background and will be a rock ledge sticking out into the water.


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

so what would you think about ditching the jack and adding a salvini pair?


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## mattmean (Feb 9, 2012)

I would personally use almost anything from Astheros line over your firemouths - similar size and shapes and temperament, but 5x more beautiful.

As far as Catfish for that thank size, I wouldn't use raphs they will never come out of that wood structure haha. I might consider something like a Oxydoras Niger, (Ripsaw Catfish) They are like these leather armored catfish who are actually gentle brutes. They grow very slowly as long as you don't over feed. They are excellent natural cleaners, and they are actually quite personable, as mine comes up and eats from my hands like a Koi fish in a pond sometimes. You have a mid level stock as far as aggression so you are genuinely setting yourself up for success here and I wish you the best. But by all means with that size I would encourage you to get a fish to two that's out of the norm. You can find firemouth anytime, anywhere. Oscars are a worthy inhabitant just because, well, they are awesome and your fish will likely become a true wet pet always upfront in the glass. The shape and wood look great too, but even with that setup, a breeding pair or 2 can cause some issues.

GL with your build.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

rotccapt said:


> so what would you think about ditching the jack and adding a salvini pair?


It is certainly possible in a tank your size as I have bred both JD and salvini many times with other CA tankmates in tanks that are much smaller then yours. Salvini in 6 ft. 180 gal., 6 ft 125 gal., 4 ft 100 gal. JD many years ago (1970's) in 5 ft. 90 gal and 4 1/2 ft. 60 gal.
IMO, JD have been pumped out by the thousands apon thousands and are often not the aggressive fish they were in the past. Unlike other CA, there has been a steady market for them for a long, long time. JD I have had in more recent years were not very aggressive, not very capable and did not breed nor own territory in my tanks. IMO and IME, a salvini pair is a step up in aggression, even over the JD I have had a long time ago. 
A breeding pair can put some pressure on a tank. Never kept salvini with firemouth or severum. IME, these are 2 fishes that did not do well, long term, with very large aggressive CA like Trimac, RD/midas, black belt ect. .........and that's with out any breeding in the tank.

I wouldn't expect, long term, a salvini pair will let another CA/SA breed in the same tank......unless they can really back it up with some force! As a dominant fish they can be quite laid back but IME, even lone males, if someone is willing to fight them, they will go out of there way looking for a scrap. In my tanks, over the course of a few years, they have stopped my convicts from breeding.....fought them until the convicts loose. I no longer house them with any intent on keeping other CA with them, long term. Only sometimes, other young CA growing up, short term. I have kept this species for over 10 years now, and find that mbuna, IME, make much better tankmates for salvini, then other CA.


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

thank you for the information on these guys. when i first started looking at these guys i was considering an oscar or two and a festea and a few others but even though the festea was beautiful most people said it would not work out. well now that i found the salvini i think it looks almost as good as the festea.

so how does this sound?

1 oscar
2 salvini
2 Hypsophrys Nicaraguansis
6 rainbow
2 sajica
5 bala shark
1:4 herm of acei

i am also planning on adding a few rock piles to make a bit more territory in the tank. for the background i am planning a foam/drylock layered rock wall with lots of overhangs and caves


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

rotccapt said:


> 1 oscar
> 2 salvini
> 2 Hypsophrys Nicaraguansis
> 6 rainbow
> ...


Well, IME, a rainbow cichlid is definately the most timid and unaggressive CA cichlid I have ever kept. In the past, mine got bullied quite a bit by other CA, especially by firemouths. Nics are not very tough either, though they have done O.K. in my tanks. Males do get quite large, around 10" eventually. Sajica is another CA that is generally seen as a less aggressive CA, though I have no personal experience with them.

With salvini and an mbuna (even one that is considered less aggressive such as acei) I would be much more inclined to consider a little tougher CA like spilirum(or cutteri), JD or even FM rather then rainbows or sajica. Though you never know how something will work out unless you try it. 300 gal. is a good size tank and there is always the possibility that something less aggressive such as rainbows (or Sajica?) will be seen as less of a threat and largely ignored. Though in general, expect CA to focus their attention on other CA, especially of the same sex and similar size.


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

so if i stick with this stock, in what order would you add them to the tank. i will have to add them one species at a time. i would think that the lower aggressive ones first so they can get the feel for the tank before the more aggressive ones take over


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

rotccapt said:


> so if i stick with this stock, in what order would you add them to the tank. i will have to add them one species at a time. i would think that the lower aggressive ones first so they can get the feel for the tank before the more aggressive ones take over


Well if you have to add them one at a time, rainbows first and salvinis last. Lot's of space for small juvies though, so generally not so critical the order you stock young juvies in a 300 gal. I suppose if you wanted to give your less aggressive CA some kind of advantage over the salvini, you could wait a couple years and then add the salvini as young juvies.....but they would still be likely to take over the tank with in a year or so.

Bala sharks certainly could be stocked first. I think they are a little feeble, until they have put some size on.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

rotccapt said:


> so how does this sound?
> 
> 1 oscar
> 2 salvini
> ...


The addition of the Salvini could potentially cause some issues down the road. I had a female that was ruthless and was very aggressive, however again, you won't know until you try it I suppose. As for the Nics, I feel they are actually very underrated as far as aggression goes. My pair dominates my tank and they can be quite pugnacious at times. They rarely go looking for a fight but they certainly won't let anyone bully them. I feel the Sajica will be able to hold their own as well and the Rainbows being the only ones to really watch. Having a group of 6 is a good idea as I have found that they really like the company of their own. I have a group of 2 males and 4 females and they are consonantly at each others sides.

I personally would not add the Africans to the mix but I'm a bit of a purist I suppose. I don't even like mixing CA and SA cichlids... :roll:


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

CjCichlid said:


> As for the Nics, I feel they are actually very underrated as far as aggression goes. My pair dominates my tank and they can be quite pugnacious at times. I feel the Sajica will be able to hold their own


Well it's all relative...compared to what? A nic would certainly be a very aggressive fish compared to many fishes kept in aqauriums. But compared to many CA cichlids, I would disagree. Of course with the likes of rainbows, firemouths, and some JD..... no doubt a pair of nics might dominate and seem quite aggressive. And very young fish in a tank for a few months .....really can't draw any conclusions from that. The time frame...many years, not a few months. Bottom line, IMO, a nic is not a very aggressive CA .....not even remotely in the same league, as say, something like a trimac.

As young fish, all sorts of possibilities in terms of pecking orders and fishes able to hold territories. But I have a hard time seeing sajicas being able to 'hold there own' with large adult salvini seeing that in my tanks, very large adult convicts are not able to do so. Neither are mature pairs of jewels. My salvini pairs have held territory against a 13" male dovii and 13 3/4" male Tilapia zilli.....and actually been the aggressors against such opponents, always pushing for more space. When I had pairs of oscars (1 male paired up with 3 different females at various times) with my salvinis in a 180 gal., early on the oscars attempted to claim a space in the middle of the tank. The fight between the male sal and large male oscar lasted only a few hours....I've actually never seen a fish get that damaged as both sides of the oscar were almost completely de-scaled. The oscars packed up and moved to the far left side of the tank and shared less the 1/4 of the tank with 2 pairs of cons.....though after the incident the male sal did have more respect for the oscars then he ever did before.


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

so with my current stock choice, would it be better to keep the salvini as a single fish? i really like the coloring of it. if i drop one salvini i might add back in the firemouths. i will probably not keep the acei in this tank it was just a though. also for the nics and the sajica since i would be looking at a pair do you start out with 5 or so and remove the others once i get a pair? also im not overly concerned about keeping any fry, i just have read that keeping pairs provided the best coloring for the fish. i will be starting with all juvies. also about how fast do these guys grow? i have heard that the oscar could grow an inch a month how bout the others?

sorry for all the questions i just want this all to work from the get go and not have the same problem i had when i started with africans. which was having lots of incomparable fish because they all looked cool.

last question for now where do you guys get your fish from. my lfs can get pretty much anything i want, but it is nice to see where others get their fish


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

rotccapt said:


> so with my current stock choice, would it be better to keep the salvini as a single fish? also for the nics and the sajica since i would be looking at a pair do you start out with 5 or so and remove the others once i get a pair? also about how fast do these guys grow? i have heard that the oscar could grow an inch a month how bout the others?
> last question for now where do you guys get your fish from.


question #1. Well, I really don't want to try and convince you not to keep a pair of salvini (or a harem as I most often have done) as i think it is a very worth while fish to keep and breed and a 300 gal. tank is certainly large enough, IMO. But i would be a little leary about rainbows, sajica or even firemouths or nics as tankmates for breeding sals. Then again, I have never stocked these fish with salvinis so I really don't know for sure. My thought is you got to be tough to be in a tank with large adult breeding sals. Though who knows, maybe they would be more tolerant of the less aggressive CA...though I sort of doubt it! IME, a lone female sal is much less aggressive....though make no mistake, still can be a very aggressive fish. IME, a male sal is much more aggressive...though it varies; sometimes there is virtually no difference between a lone male and a breeding male!

question #2. Yes, that is the way to get a pair. Best to start out with 5 or more.

question # 3. Growth can vary considerably.There is no real pattern. Yes, oscars often grow that fast; sometimes faster. Had them grow from tiny juvie, still with a marbled pattern, to 10"+ in 6 months......though in a years time after purchase, they were no larger then oscars often are with in this time frame. Salvini, reasonable to expect males to be 6-8", anywhere from 1-3 years after purchase. Females around 5-6". Had a female salvini that got over 7" and very thick, though not deep bodied like a male, after owning her for 6 years. Rainbows, sajica, firemouths.....expect males to be 5" or so about a year after purchase. Suposedely FM get 7" , though i have never seen any that large. It generally takes some time for FM to reach there larger sizes. Nics ...males can get 9-10" in about 3-4 years time; females considerably smaller. All these sizes are total lengths, including tail rather then standard length which excludes the tail. certainly better water quality by doing frequent large water changes helps growth though it is my beleif, based on the circumstantial evidence of my own experience, that larger tanks grow fish quicker and often a little larger.

question #4. I purchase from the LFS. Even the big box stores have huge variety for CA cichlids compared to what used to be commonly available. But if there is something specific i would want, a quick trip to Calgary will provide a lot more options. A lot of people order cichlids....my brother did in the '80's through the ACA trading post and i ended up with some of his extra fish. Jeff Rapps is a popular source for some less commonly available CA....someday I will probably order something from him.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

bernie comeau said:


> CjCichlid said:
> 
> 
> > As for the Nics, I feel they are actually very underrated as far as aggression goes. My pair dominates my tank and they can be quite pugnacious at times. I feel the Sajica will be able to hold their own
> ...


I was simply stating Nics are often thought to be much more "peaceful" than many are. Each individual fish's temperament varies and in comparison to his listed stock, I think they will have no problem fending for themselves. By no means was I comparing them to something like a Trimac...


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

rotccapt said:


> so with my current stock choice, would it be better to keep the salvini as a single fish? i really like the coloring of it. if i drop one salvini i might add back in the firemouths. i will probably not keep the acei in this tank it was just a though. also for the nics and the sajica since i would be looking at a pair do you start out with 5 or so and remove the others once i get a pair? also im not overly concerned about keeping any fry, i just have read that keeping pairs provided the best coloring for the fish. i will be starting with all juvies. also about how fast do these guys grow? i have heard that the oscar could grow an inch a month how bout the others?
> 
> sorry for all the questions i just want this all to work from the get go and not have the same problem i had when i started with africans. which was having lots of incomparable fish because they all looked cool.
> 
> last question for now where do you guys get your fish from. my lfs can get pretty much anything i want, but it is nice to see where others get their fish


I think a single female Sal would for sure have a better chance of working out than a pair. You should also still get to see the stunning colors as my lone female Sal was always displaying very vibrant coloration. By removing the Africans as well, adding a pair or two of Meeki shouldn't be a problem either.

As far as growth, I feel it depends on the water quality, water temperature and feeding regimen. Oscars are definitely known to be fast growers so I would keep an eye out on your smaller cichlids like the Rainbows. If they are able to fit inside the Oscars mouth, the Oscar may have a go at them.

When purchasing fish I try to stay local but that rarely happens. I only have one LFS that carries decent stock so I usually end up ordering online when I am wanting something a bit out of the norm. I have had good luck with Aquabid as I got my male Nic and multispinosa from there. Just be sure to read through the sellers reviews before ordering as it's basically Ebay for fish. I have also heard nothing but positive things about Jeff Rapps, so I would buy with confidence from him as well...


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

CjCichlid said:


> I was simply stating Nics are often thought to be much more "peaceful" than many are. Each individual fish's temperament varies and in comparison to his listed stock, I think they will have no problem fending for themselves. By no means was I comparing them to something like a Trimac...


Ahh, I see what you mean. That I can agree with.


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## mattmean (Feb 9, 2012)

Want about Robertsoni's










I mentioned them before heres other variants of their genus

http://cichlidconnection.com/index.php?p=1_9_Astatheros

they are beautiful and a little tougher than nics, rainbows, and choco. They are a really well colored fish and about a firemouths size.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

bernie comeau said:


> CjCichlid said:
> 
> 
> > I was simply stating Nics are often thought to be much more "peaceful" than many are. Each individual fish's temperament varies and in comparison to his listed stock, I think they will have no problem fending for themselves. By no means was I comparing them to something like a Trimac...
> ...


Looking at this and thinking about it a little more, and yes in terms of the proposed stock, Nics should have absolutely no problem defending themselves against rainbow cichlids  
But, IMO, it certainly is possible they could have a problem defending themselves against salvini. And quite possible, though not as likely, they could have a problem defending themselves against a large aggressive oscar. Had nics a couple times for many years and grew a male to large size. In my tanks they were always low in the pecking order and can't even recall anything that they were ever dominant over :-? . I had male and female at times in the same tank, though no chance of claiming space as they were always subordinate to things like oscars, JD and GT, let alone the more dominant fish i had, such as male Texas, male Tilapia mariae and female jag. I do recall them on rare occasion, attempting to stand up to other cichlids.....what i remember of them is they back down quickly and never won a fight. Though I can't say they ever got picked on too much.

Generally, any pair of CA cichlids can be quite aggressive(with the possible exception of some pairs of rainbow cichlids). I've never known nics as a dominant fish, only as a fish low in the pecking order. When I look at Cj cichlids tankhttp://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=237760.........sure they could be aggressive! They are a pair of CA cichlids and are the largest fish in the tank, with small juvies of generally less aggressive species of CA cichlid, as tankmates.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I still feel Nics will do just fine with his proposed stock list. He isn't planning to stock any real "heavy hitters" and even if he was, the Nics would still not be my first concern. I have seen many people successfully keep Nics with much larger and aggressive Vieja/Paratheraps species without any problems.

In regards to my tank, there are other cichlids in with the Nics besides multispinosa. Yes, my male Nic is the largest fish in the tank however my female is the same size as my male JD and just a tad bigger than 2 of my Meeki. She is definitely dominant over them and it's not because she has the male to back her up as they are not even a bonded pair...

rotccapt, I feel your proposed stock list has a good chance of working out, especially now that you are only thinking of having a single female Sal and nixed the Africans. It should make for a very interesting and active tank with an assortment of different sizes/colors of cichlids. I would however keep an eye on your Rainbows, as they could be at risk of being picked on. Another note worth mentioning... I have found my Rainbows like to stay towards the mid and upper regions of the water column and really enjoy surface cover. Driftwood and plants near the surface of the water should give them a place to feel comfortable at and retreat to if needed.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

CjCichlid said:


> I still feel Nics will do just fine with his proposed stock list. He isn't planning to stock any real "heavy hitters" and even if he was, the Nics would still not be my first concern. I have seen many people successfully keep Nics with much larger and aggressive Vieja/Paratheraps species without any problems.


I have kept nics, as well, with heavy hitters with out any real problems. Texas, T. mariae and jag....those are definately heavy hitters. But I wouldn't do it again  I think the fish would do even better with out such aggressive tankmates.

Innitially this discussion on nics aggression/capability was in relation to stocking them with a salvini pair. I would certainly regard a large breeding pair of salvini as a 'heavy hitter'. As far as anything I have ever bred in a cichlid community tank, IME, they are most aggressive and pushy for space....... IME, more so then black belts, convicts, jewels, JD, spilirum , oscars( many times unsuccessfully in the community tank). Nics would not be my choice to stock with breeding sals; rainbows much less so. Could these tankmates work out well.....maybe, possibily (?). I am up for a challange, but I wouldn't try it. IMO, and IME, mbuna is the safe choice compared to other CA.

Now stocking a single female sal with nics in a 300 gal..... yes chances are fairly good for that working out. Rainbows, IMO, are still at risk of getting picked on excessively, at least eventually. Personally, I'd stock them with completely different fish. When I was a teenager, I set up a couple tanks for my oldest sister. The rainbows bred in a 10 gal. with small community fish and claimed no more then a small corner of the tank. When they were moved to a 33 gal.....same thing, they bred, claimed a small corner of the tank and even with fry, where barely aggressive. At the time it was shocking to me  .....I couldn't beleive how unaggressive they were for a breeding CA cichlid!

The OP should decide what sort of level of aggressiveness he/she is looking to stock, and stock accordingly. From my perspective, rainbows with salvini and a tankfull of other CA is 'pushing the envelope' ......might work out well (?) but IMO, is not a safe, begginer thing to try on one's first CA tank.


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

thank you all fo the information.

there are 4 fish i definatly want in the tank. 1 tiger oscar, 1 salvini, 2 nic's, 5 bala shark. other than that i am looking at nice looking colorfull fish to fill in the rest of the tank. so with that in mind what would you sudjest then?

to start out since i will be starting with juvies i am planning on holding off on the oscar and let the others get some size on them a bit then get the oscar.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

rotccapt said:


> 1 tiger oscar, 1 salvini, 2 nic's, 5 bala shark. other than that i am looking at nice looking colorfull fish to fill in the rest of the tank. so with that in mind what would you sudjest then?


I'd consider JD, green terror or blue acara. A Cryptoheros species such as convicts or spilirum. Maybe FM. As suggested by mattmean, Astatoheros species might be an option.....though I can't say too much about them as I have no personel experience with any of them. A large CA that is often considered to be not too aggressive: ex"Cichlasoma" pearsi http://www.allfishes.net/photos poissons/photos am centr/paersei.htm ....though again I can't say too much about this species, as I have never kept it.

I think you would be wise to leave the rainbows out.....IME, they get picked on by other CA, and do much better with out CA tankmates.


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

so what do you think of this

1 tiger oscar
1 salvini
2 green terror
2 nic
2 blue acara
5 bala sharks


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

As bernie said, you would honestly probably be better of without the multispinonsa. I also like his suggestion of the Pearsi, it would make for a great centerpiece fish. I had considered one for my tank but feel a 135gal isn't large enough as they do get quite bulky. If the Pearsi interests you, be sure to look into the "red finned" strain, they are awesome looking! Besides Pearsi, if your wanting another pair, I think a pair of any of the Cryptoheros or Thorichthys species would work well. If your wanting another loner, A JD or GT could potentially work like bernie suggested as well...

EDIT... In regards to your most recent post... I would strongly advise you against having both Blue Acara and GTs. I would also storngly suggest that you do not attempt to have a pair of GTs. I feel a pair of BA could work or a lone GT (one or the other). The fact that they are so similar looking makes me believe that conspecific aggression would be very high between the two.


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

yea i see what you mean i think i like the green terror better. so nix the blue acara.

so lets try again
1 oscar
1 salvini
1 green terror
(1 jack dempsy) perhaps if not too many fish for the tank
2 nic
2-4 fire mouth
5 bala


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## CaCichilds (Apr 10, 2012)

Rot, If you are thinking a GT, what about Tomocichla Sieboldii? or a Herichthys Labridens?

They have a lot more mystique than your average GT

If you stay w/ a GT, i'd try a white seam they are little more unique and mine is a lot more personable than other gold ones I've grown over the years.


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

i like the herichthy labriden but i think i am going to stick with the GT. also i love my western painted turtle and i think i have a plan in place to create a nice home for all of them in the tank.

so should i add all of them at once or one species at a time? i am thinking about starting with 5-6 nics and 5-6 firemouths and let them grow up a bit so i can sex them. then i plan on getting rid of the others except the nicest looking female and male and hopefully get a pair out of them.

so i will have two stumps in the tank the large one and a much smaller one that with be catercorner to each other. what should i put for other decoration in the tank? i am thinking a couple rock piles. i would love some live plants but im not sure what all i can keep. i am thinking about trying to get java fern to grow on my drift wood. i have also thought about adding some duck weed. the background with be a diy styro/drylock creation and will look like a layered rock wall with lots of ledges, caves and perhaps a couple tunnels. at the water line i will have one large shelf that will extend into the water that will serve as my backing spot for the turtle


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I would leave the JD out and go with this:
1x oscar
1x salvini
1x green terror
2x nic
2-4x fire mouth
5x bala

300 gallons is a large aquarium but keep in mind adult sizes and how much space each cichlid/pair is going to require...

Starting with 5-6 juveniles is definitely going to be your best bet to acquire a strongly bonded pair. I've heard Nics can be a bit fussy when pairing up and that was the case with mine. However, I started with two sexual mature adults, which stacked the odds against me. They have been going through all the motions lately but still have not spawned. As for the Meeki, I only started with three and by luck got 1 male and 2 females. All three are around 3in and two have already began to pair off as they are always together and constantly showing interest in one another.

When adding the fish, I would add them in groups. When you add a single fish it directs everyone's attention/aggression on to that particular fish. I would add the 5x Balas, Nics, and Meeki first. I would then wait a week or so and add the Oscar, Sal and GT.

Your aquascaping plans sound good. The two pieces of driftwood you have will look great, and paired with a 3D background should really make for an awesome looking tank! You can try the duckweed, but I have had bad experiences with it. My filters would constantly blow it all around the tank making it look like a snow storm (only with duckweed)! Look into other low maintenance plants such as Anubias, Anacharis and Hornwort (which can be left foating at the surface)...


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

yea i first though i wanted a jack but i have lost interest in it lots of other cool looking fish. what would you think about 5 clown loaches? i found these guys were awesome at keeping snails at bay


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Clown Loaches could potentially work but I would keep in mind you already have 8 fish that will eventually reach 10++ inches. Although CL's are slow growers, they will eventually grow quite large. IMO, your tank is already WELL stocked with the above list...


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

hey if anyone is interested i have started building the stand for this tank over on mfk in the diy tanks section look for me there


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

so i have decided to tweak my stock list and i wanted to get your opinions. i am going to ditch the balas and the turtle so:

1 tiger oscar
1 male nic
2 female nic
1 green terror
1 salvini
4 firemouth
2 pictus cats
(1 eb jack) still debating on this guy


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

how big do nics need to be before you can sex them? also how big before they start to color up? i have my green terror and 6 nics right now in a 46 gallon bow front till the tank is built


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I don't think there is really a specific size, but by 3in or so you should be able to be able to make out their sex pretty accurately. The easiest way to determine their sex is by looking at their fins. Males will have speckled fins while females will not. They should begin to color up around that size as well...


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## rotccapt (May 31, 2011)

so after some reading im not sure if the oscar will work with my gt i tryed an albino but i think it died from a sever case of ich so we got a little bigger tiger and we saw alot of agression between the gt and the tiger then the next day the tiger was dead. do you think i will have better luck when i transfer them to the 300 gallon tank?

if i cant do the oscar what do you think of this

1 male gt (already have)
1 female gt
1 female nic (already have)
1 male jd (already have)
1 salvani 
2-4 firemouth
10-15 giant danios (already have 5)
2 zebra pleco


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## infoleather (Aug 21, 2012)

Do you have a man who lets a DIY plywood box in the aquarium glass or acrylic, or you do something you like?


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