# Single Wet Pet Discussion



## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

I may be way off here but it seems for me to get that "Oscar Puppy" personality I need to keep a fish all by itself.

I have the standard 125 gallon tank, with a juvenile Jag (5"), juvenile Red Terror (2") & Jack Dempsey (6.5") as my feature fishes. As well as one remaining Giant Danio, Feather Fin Cat (6") & Rubber-Lip Pleco (3").

I have never kept a Jag or Red Terror but have read & witnessed the owner to pet relationship to be rather personal; like keeping one Oscar.

I'm just not getting that with any of the fish currently housed together. Do I need to remove all fish including the Feather Fin Cat & Rubber-Lip Pleco to get the interaction others seems to get unintentionally after their single wet pet has killed off everything in the tank?

I know a Red Devil, Jag & Jack won't work as an end state for this tank. I'm just observing them now in attempt to select a final single wet pet. I know a 125 may be a bit more than a Jack or RD need but I have the space & didn't want to do a community set up.


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## Peskaroosh (Nov 10, 2011)

In your tank i'd put a pair of Uaru amphiacanthoides or a pair of Hypselecara temporalis ( Chocolate cichlids ) ... these cichlids are very peacefull and intelligent as you want a wet pet .


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

How about I get an Oscar, a tank full Tropheus duboisi or ..... :lol: .

Do I need to remove all fish including the Feather Fin Cat & Rubber-Lip Pleco to get the interaction others seems to get unintentionally after their single wet pet has killed off everything in the tank?

It seems many fans of the Red Devil/Midas and Jaguar have their fish interact within a few months of a stable environment. I'm just not getting this result; maybe because my fish are kept together :-?

Or maybe I'm just not being patient enough 

Thoughts opcorn:


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I don't think your fish being together has anything to do with why they aren't as interactive as your wanting them to be. Honestly, if your wanting Oscar behavior, get an Oscar.

Jags, JD's, and Red Terror's (which do you have Red Devil or Red Terror, as you have mentioned both?) are not usually as interactive as Oscar's are in my opinion. Of course this can also vary with each individual fish's personality. Your fish are also still relatively young, once they mature they should get a bit more "personality"...


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

Cj,

Thanks, I have the Red Devil; I was thinking too much while typing  Too young, I can believe. I'm sure I can make it at least three more months with this stock. I'll update in March. As for now I don't even have any aggression in the tank; which supports your "still relatively young" statement.


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## sjwrx (Apr 15, 2009)

i've had a red devil, it took a little while before he was more interactive
i was able to hand feed and pet him.

Is your tank bare? lightly / heavily decorated?


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## SEAN420 (Nov 24, 2011)

Can u post a picture of your Red Terror plz.. is it Amphilophus Festae.. of Mayan cichlid... Male or female if u can tell.. And would u want to ship it to florida  thanks


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## sjwrx (Apr 15, 2009)

SEAN420 said:


> Can u post a picture of your Red Terror plz.. is it Amphilophus Festae.. of Mayan cichlid... Male or female if u can tell.. And would u want to ship it to florida  thanks


i believe he corrected and said he has a Red Devil and not the Red Terror.


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## bbortko (Nov 20, 2011)

These traits have more to do with the species and less with being kept as a wet pet versus community. These species are often kept as wet pets do to the owners inability to provide a large enough tank to keep them in a community setting. Most hobbyist can afford and have space for a 75g tank for a wet pet, very few have the means for a 300g tank.


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## SEAN420 (Nov 24, 2011)

darn


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

sjwrx said:


> Is your tank bare? lightly / heavily decorated?


Now it's lightly decorated; I decided to force the issue today by removing most of the artificial plants & a few pieces of driftwood.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)




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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

In addition to removing some decor I added a few feeder fish to kick start some territorial aggression & voila'. The Red Devil came out & is now dominating the tank.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

Feeding lightly twice today the Red Devil let me touch his head. I'm sure it won't be long now before the others follow suit. My tank was so heavily filled with driftwood that each fish had several places he/she could call home. Most of my activity was about thirty minutes before the lights went out; even though I usually fed two hours before. Maybe they were scampering around feeding on the remains :-?

It's too bad I can't house both the Jag & RD. I have had the Jack for over a year now & I got him sold today. JD's make for great pictures, easy to breed, cool spangles but leave little for the hobbyist to enjoy when just watching his/her fish.

opcorn:


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## travisbundo (May 4, 2011)

Every fish is different and has it's own personality. Depending on your individual fish sex and personality, it is feasible to keep these fish together. Some have had success with it, many have not. My CA tank is the same, a jag, 2 dempseys and a RD. They're still relatively young, only about 4-5" so I'll continue to monitor any aggressive but right now my juvenile mbuna show way more aggression.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I think your setup looks really good. Are the pics before or after you removed a lot of things?

Like travis said, every fish is different. I have a JD that is front and center, begging for food as soon as he see's me.

I also would advise against feeding feeder fish as they often carry parasites. They are also simply not all that nutritional. I would stick to a good quality...


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

CjCichlid said:


> I think your setup looks really good. Are the pics before or after you removed a lot of things?
> 
> Like travis said, every fish is different. I have a JD that is front and center, begging for food as soon as he see's me.
> 
> I also would advise against feeding feeder fish as they often carry parasites. They are also simply not all that nutritional. I would stick to a good quality...


The pics are after I removed some decor.

The JD has always begged for food but after he's had his fill it's back to the hidey hole for him. And really not much activity when it's not feeding time. I breed him this past fall and removed the female. Even when in the company of other JD's it just wasn't much fun to sit & watch the fish.

Normally I don't add feeder fish but I got them from the neighbor's guppy tank & wanted to get my Jag out and trigger his hunter/predator instinct.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

An older before pic


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

Later after I removed the JD's my tank sat with only the Feather Fin Cat, Rubber-Lip Pleco and the one Male JD. I went with a friend to see a guy who was selling some fish. When we got to his home I couldn't believe the stock load on his 220. After being as nice as I could I ended up just buying a three inch Jag from him. And that's how I ended up with this guy for $2.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

The male JD grew out quickly, as I started with nine of them to in effort to gain a pair. Next weekend a member of my small fish club is picking him up; as he recently lost his male.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

Since everyone seems to like pics, here's one of my 110 tall. My wife controls the stock list; I just maintain it.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

Back to my original concern/question... "I may be way off here but it seems for me to get that "Oscar Puppy" personality I need to keep a fish all by itself."

In the past 48 hours I have completely broke down & cleaned my 47 gallon sump; as I hadn't cleaned it for over a year, yuck! My water parameters always held steady with Nitrates staying around 5 ppm; Nitrites & Ammonia 0 ppm & pH a solid 7.6, so I just let her run. I don't' check the gH or kH very often but they too always read the same. Regular water changes & some glass cleaning were my only true maintenance. Cleaning the 12 gallons of bio balls from a sump just wasn't high enough on my priority list. (the tank also has an AC 110)

Also I removed some decor & added the feeder fish in hopes to trigger some territorial aggression.

Lastly since it's MLK weekend I've had the time to lounge around the house & watch football; feeding the fish very lightly several times through out the day. This morning both the Jag & RD were eating from my hand. I haven't be able to touch/pet the Jag just yet but he's getting there.

I think posting & actually reading my own thoughts has answered my question: to get the family pet type relationship with your fish, you have to put in the time & remember no matter how clean your filters look they are just there to help.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

Okay, so I'm inpatient 

Current Stock in the 125
Jaguar 6"+
Red Devil 3"+
Red Terror/Festae/Hybrid? 3" (housed temporarily)
Rubberlip Pleco 3"
FeatherFin Cat 6"
Upsidedown Cat 2.75"

Does anyone think this Jag is staying black due to the stress of crowding; I know the RD is the dominant fish. It's not a great picture in fact the photo picks up more color than I actually see.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Your stock doesn't sound "crowded", at least for the time being. He may just be trying to blend in with his surroundings as you have a black background. He could also potentially be stressed, are any of the other cichlids harassing him? Male Jags have quite a bit of black markings to begin with...


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## mattmean (Feb 9, 2012)

great little guy. I had the same issue, well i should say have. I have a great big JD. and he does very little swimming. I hate giving him to a shop for nothing and then seeing them sell it for 60.00 bucks a week later so I don't know what to do. Your RD will definitely be a fast grower. I would be careful with feeders unless your pretty sure they are healthy live food.

best of luck.


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

DIYhunter said:


> I think posting & actually reading my own thoughts has answered my question: to get the family pet type relationship with your fish, you have to put in the time & remember no matter how clean your filters look they are just there to help.


Hi DIYhunter,

I think you are spot on with your assessment. The more you "train" your fish the more personable they will be. The other aspect is the species of the cichlid; and, in my opinion RD/Midas cichlids interact with their surroundings outside their tank more than any other I have seen.

With your RD already acting the way you describe at such a young age, I think you will have a very personable cichlid in the future.

The real reason I was posting was to tell you how amazing your 125g looks. The large piece of driftwood looks natural and interesting.

Thanks,
Matt


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks Matt,

I have been keeping fish for over 20 years, I knew sooner or later I'd get a tank to look right.

It's just mopani driftwood; I have enough to fill this tank twice, I simply cycle different pieces through every three months or so, as I get bored with them. Then some QuickCrete sand, add in a few decorative stones & plastic plants. Before you know it folks are saying the pictures don't do your aquarium justice. Okay, that's my humble brag 

I'm still waiting to raise me up one of the those colorful jags, I'm always seeing in the other guys tank :drooling:

I'll give the RD & Jag as long as I can before I separate them and pick the final resident of this glass box :fish:


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

CjCichlid said:


> He may just be trying to blend in with his surroundings as you have a black background.


I hear you about the black background but when I see simple set ups like this it makes me wonder if I need to change his diet, re-home some tank mates, change water parameters, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pttE_VwA ... re=related



CjCichlid said:


> He could also potentially be stressed, are any of the other cichlids harassing him?


I wouldn't say another fish harasses him, but the RD is definitely the dominant fish. While they both have places in the tank they claim. Neither of them has any problem defending what they've claimed. When I feed them, all that Alpha Male stuff goes out the window and they allow one another to feed freely. Unless I feed salmon then the RD runs everyone off while he dines.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

Well it's been a little over a month and...

Current Stock in the 125

Red Devil 5" (mattmean called it when he said "Your RD will definitely be a fast grower")
Mayan 4" (still housed temporarily)
FeatherFin Cat 6"
Upsidedown Cat 2.75"

I decided to keep the Red Devil. With the new stock list I'm surprised the upside-down cat is still hanging on; no one pays any mind when he swims by. This is the first upside-down cat I've had that spends 50% of his time out and about where I can observe him/her.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

bbortko said:


> These traits have more to do with the species and less with being kept as a wet pet versus community.


I disagree. Fish are social beings. If they are kept in solitary confinement they will take more interest in souroundings outside of a tank, and will interact more so with an owner, if there are no other fish present. Even if it is just aggression, the difference in behavoir is sometimes INSTANT.

Had a female RD/midas as a young kid that was removed from the community tank a number of times to her own tank (because of her aggressive behavoir). She became an instant glass banger but never, ever behaved this way in the community tank. She took a much greater interest, as a lone fish, in outside soroundings and whom ever would be in the room. When she went back into the community tank, she showed much less interest in things outside her tank, and never , not once was ever a glass banger in the community tank. Just a few years back, kept my male Tilapia zilli in a 100 gal by himself. With in minutes of being put by himself, he was mouthing the glass trying to bite my finger. INSTANTLY, he became a glass banger as a lone specimen, though he never once behaved this way in the community tank. A few weeks later, added some young CA (Blackbelt and cons) and few mbuna, and his transition back to community tank behavoir, in which he took little (or very significantly less interest) in things outside his tank was INSTANT!
Sure the species has something to do with how much interest a fish takes in things outside of it's tank. Oscars , in particular, seem to take more interest. Depends as well, on the particular individual. But really, the most significant factor is being placed in solitary confinemennt and a lack of stimulus!


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

After reading bbortko's post again, i see i may have misunderstood his post. Though numerous comments were made in this thread claiming there is no difference in behavoir when a fish is kept as a lone specimen as aposed to being kept with other tankmates, in terms of how much interest they take in things outside of their tank. IME, large cichlids take far more interest in things/people outside of their tank when kept solo, because IMO, they have less things to do when they have no other fish to interact with.
Not against keeping cichlids as a lone specimen. Sometimes for reasons of aggression, size of tank, ect. it is the more practical way. Certainly makes sence if the fish is for show, to keep it in perfect condition. But really, IMO, it's much preferable to house a fish with other tankmates if possible.


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## galaxy911 (Dec 21, 2011)

In my experience - I had a red devil by himself and he was always excited and interactive whenever someone went to the tank.
After I put in my 2 convicts - he has become a lot less caring about the world around him. And this really disappoints me. I miss the days of my friendly Sven 

I'm upgrading tanks soon, and I'm seriously considering putting the convicts in a separate tank, and trying to make him a wet pet again, because I do believe that when the fish is alone - it is more desperate for some form of interaction.

Just because they are fish, and not cats or dogs, doesn't mean they should be ignored and dont require the attention.

**EDIT** : a part of that sounded horrible, like I'm trying to starve my fish of attention for my own pleasure. I didn't mean it like that at all.


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## theoryguru (Oct 11, 2011)

Nice setup I like the driftwood in your tank.

I have single Red Devil, he's playful [aggressive perhaps] kids love him, enjoys finger tracing. 
He gets really close to my hand during feeding, I haven't pet him yet. If he sees us at the dining table he'll flick his tail to get attention. I have 2 other tanks and didn't want a 3rd, but I can't part with him. The previous owner tried putting other fish in tank but he beat them up; I introduced a large pleco and he got clobbered needless to say he's a bachelor.


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi *theoryguru*,

Your cichlid looks awesome. Thanks you for sharing.

Thanks,
Matt


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