# Is his mouth like that from fighting or infection



## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

So I have lost a few mbuna over the past two days and some I can tell where beat up and I have 2 male lupingu with both have almost a white moustache and perfectly healthy everywhere else. But I noticed another one that didn't make it which was a nkata Bay afra his entire head was almost white. Did they bite him that much or is that infection. I took a picture of the worst one now.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

From the pic he looks a little swollen in the belly but his head/mouth look OK to me. Maybe just the pic.

They will get white lips from lip locking...not the whole head though.

The swollen belly + mbuna + fish dying could be bloat...is he eating?


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

So ends up i had a colunmaris outbreak....still fighting it but have lost about 10-12 fish so far. His whole head was white the next morning and showed signs of saddle back.


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## Scott Bryant (Sep 28, 2014)

I would like to suggest you treat them with Furan 2 and Kanaplex in combination.


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

What hapenned? Malawis dont really get columnaris out of the blue. Something must have been wrong in you water.

Or an infected fish must have been introduced.


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

Scott that is what I am using. Just started round 2 tonight.

Wort it had to be a fish I had just cycled a new tank and everything was prefect with the water. I ordered my stock for this tank and I'm thinking it was one of those fish.

There was some minor lip locking over territory as everyone was getting settled in. Then the white mouths started along with knarly misfiguring on some. Then came the few days where I found a couple dead every l morning and that's when I started seeing the bars of discoloration and the dorsal fin not being able to stand all the way up.

I pulled out all the fish that looked bad.... And placed them in qt in which they didn't last more than 48 hours. I have been watching them very closely as its beside my desk and I work from home. I did a 50% water change and pulled out the stones and scrubbed them all after the soaked in a water/peroxide solution. Found several little fuzzy white spots...

Started furan2 and kana plex along with Salt on Saturday and did a 25% wc today. And started round 2 of furan...

This **** is exhuasting


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

Pics from a female that gave up tonight..


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

The last picture shows it clearly. Bacterial.


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

wortel87 said:


> The last picture shows it clearly. Bacterial.


So am I correct in that being what is called Saddleback?


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Its probably columnaris yes.

Pretty easily to treat. But the damage done not so much. The infection can go slowly. Or fast. It can even kill all fish in a tank within, lets say 12 hours.

There are different strains of the dissease.

It almost never shows its face spontaneous. especially not with malawis. Bad water quality or new fish are the trigger.

Columnaris bacteria are always present in your water. But it needs a trigger to grow and sustain itself.


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

So I have finished 2 rounds of furan 2 and a full dosage of Kanaplex. Only lost one other fish after my last picture. All water parameters are perfect and everyone else is eating great and getting along.

On another note I had a red fin borleyi that I moved from my grow out tank in with the big boys. He has been in there for a few weeks and from everything I have seen the others pay him no attention but I don't watch the tank 24/7. I would normally look at this as a nibble from another fish but after dealing with the columnaris I don't want to take any chances. I disinfected all my nets and haven't actually netter any fish except the dead ones and this fish was moved from his other tank before the columnaris started.

Any ideas



















First pic looks like a bite to me but the second one shows these white areas in the fins. You can see spots on the dorsal in the first pic as well.


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## euphr (Aug 9, 2015)

It looks like it could be Ich.

Do you know if he had the white spots before you put him in the new tank? Ich typically has a 4 day cycle in fish before they leave the host to spread through the tank. If its ich then you need to be prepared to treat the entire tank.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Doesn't look like ICH to me. Take some time and watch the tank for aggression. You need to spend 30 minutes watching the tank without the fish knowing that you're there. It sounds silly but they won't display normal behavior if they think they're going to be fed.


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

Euphr it isnt ich as he didnt have these spots before he went in and its been several weeks and i only noticed them yesterday.

Ill try to get some time in just observing and report back.


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Not ich. But not for the reasons you posted.

Probably nothing. Just keep an eye on it. Maybe its some irritation from the antibiotic. Or from fighting

If it worsens just post a clear picture.


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## euphr (Aug 9, 2015)

I do have a blue acara that has spots like that on his side fins (not sure the specific name for them) and he has had them for a very long time.

CJ, sorry i have ich on the brain thanks to my wife's tropical community tank. You know you are more than an hobbyist when you start dreaming about treating your fish. LOL


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

OK it seem the cruel mistress columnaris never left my tank... This is really testing my resolve... I noticed the fish below this evening after seeing one dead and another one laying on the bottom but one eye glazed over.... So did I not get rid of the columnaris?

I treated twice for a total of 4 rounds of furan 2 and a whole thing of kana plex. Also dosed with aq salt. Any ideas here?


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Hmmmmm those spots on the acei... ich?

I want you to do something 

Are those rocks fake? If so take them all out. Is it possible their leaching out chemicals?

Treat for fungus.

Try an overdose on a sick fish in quarantine and get rid of all the fish showing symptoms.

If this doesnt work start over with a fully desinfected tank. New rocks, new sand, new filter materials.


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

the only ich i have ever seen on any of my fish was where it looked like salt on their sides and dorsal. Im assuming it can look different

Yes all the rocks are fake....they are cichild stones. All were soaked in bleach and water and scrubbed last week.

What do you suggest to treat with for fungus?


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

I see salt specs on that acei.

Its just really strange. It really does look bacterial. But you treated for that. Its possible you got something really nasty going on. But the last thing to try is fungus. I dont know what is available to you. So look into that.

So hose rocks are specially designed for aquarium use. They should be safe then.


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

So the Acei was done this morning....and as you can see I think he had been fighting but the white discoloration is what showed up on the original fish i posted a week or so ago and the other fish i found dead didnt show any signs of fighting.


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Try the fungus meds. If this goes on youll have no fish left.

Can anyone comment if the correct medications where used to treat bacterial infections? Are there any alternatives? I dont know details about the us meds.

This problem needs to be fixed.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Sounds like you are really taking a beating here. I could write out a long lengthy post but instead just take a look at these articles, hopefully you find them helpful.

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html

http://www.myaquariumclub.com/columnaris-and-what-i-have-learned...-1689.html

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.html


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