# Substrate opin



## sgcichlids45 (Feb 1, 2015)

Seachem Aragonite? looks like a good substrate for my new setup, any thoughts have also heard a few people say they use pool filter sand.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Pool filter sand is much cheaper. I have aragonite and have not found it changes pH or KH. So now I just choose a substrate by appearance and suitability to the fish (or plants).


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

Agreed. Seachem's products are great, but their substrates are expensive, and I too use PFS instead of aragonite or fertilized substrates for plants.


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## Handyjoe (Jan 11, 2015)

I spent hundreds of dollars on aragonite substrate, thinking it would buffer the pH. It doesn't. So, like others have said, go for PFS. It looks good and lots cheaper.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

It will buffer, but weekly water changes and a pH over ~7 negate any shifts. I'm not sure about KH. I assume that aragonite will raise a low KH? Haven't tried it personally. Again, it may take more time than is permitted due to water changes.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My aragonite (10 years in the tank) did not change pH=7.8 or KH=7.


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## Stephi (Jan 2, 2015)

I have argonite sand in my 36 gallon and pfs in my 75 gallon. The argonite was hard to clean initially while the pfs was a breeze to clean. They both look awesome in a nicely lit tank. There is a huge price difference between argonite and pfs like the other posters have mentioned. As far as buffering quality goes, the argonite did nothing to buffer my 36 gallon. If it were me, I would go with pfs and spend the money saved on other items for the set up or a new video game=)


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## johnnymarko (May 30, 2014)

Crushed Coral!!! lol

I think I'm the only person on here who loves their crushed coral substrate. It's what my LFS uses in all their tanks, and she sold me some extra for about $0.25 a pound.

I'm debating getting on the PFS sand train this summer, but having had sand before I hated it.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> My aragonite (10 years in the tank) did not change pH=7.8 or KH=7.


Like I said, anything over 7 and it probably won't shift pH. I'm guessing that a 7+pH probably won't have any effect on KH since the water will be unable to dissolve any aragonite like a more acidic level would.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

while pool filter sand is cheap when I used it I found to much of it in my filters. I use the caribsea seafloor grade in all my tanks now. Others are correct that it will have little impact on buffering unless you have a ph crash but if that is happening you have other problems. What it does do is provide many trace elements to your tank magnesium strontium, calcium to name a few. Both natures ocean and caribsea also claim that their aragonite assists with the removal of ammonia, nitrite and some nitrates. Not a chemist so can't be sure of this claim. Just my 2 cents


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## sgcichlids45 (Feb 1, 2015)

Well to start love the discussion and appreciate all the good advice I have received on this site an forum. After reading some articles in the library have decided that I will use a mix probably around 75pfs/25aragonite, also I find myself wishing I had purchased a larger tank at this point I will grow some nice mbuna in the 30 hopefully this will give me the time to get better at the craft and save up for a larger tank.

Thanks,
SG


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I would not mix the two. Aragonite and pool filter sand have different size/shape particles and so in combination will have a higher density and promote anaerobic "hot spots" because oxygen cannot penetrate the filled-in spaces between particles as well. They may also sort out into layers a bit causing what may be a unsightly appearance.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Mcdaphnia said:


> I would not mix the two. Aragonite and pool filter sand have different size/shape particles and so in combination will have a higher density and promote anaerobic "hot spots" because oxygen cannot penetrate the filled-in spaces between particles as well. They may also sort out into layers a bit causing what may be a unsightly appearance.


Agree absolutely. If you want the "just in case it might work" buffering, use crushed coral gravel (not sand) in one of your filter media trays.

Or if you like the aragonite in spite of the cost go with the aragonite.


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## sgcichlids45 (Feb 1, 2015)

Will not mix the two just bought the 50lb. sack of pfs from a pool supply store for 13 and change compared to $35 or so from the Fish Den local shop here in Denver fyi they have quite an impressive selection of fish will be spending time and money at this place. Question for the commune, do I need to rinse this pfs? have heard that it might be clean enough to go without.

Thanks,
SG


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

sgcichlids45 said:


> Will not mix the two just bought the 50lb. sack of pfs from a pool supply store for 13 and change compared to $35 or so from the Fish Den local shop here in Denver fyi they have quite an impressive selection of fish will be spending time and money at this place. Question for the commune, do I need to rinse this pfs? have heard that it might be clean enough to go without.
> 
> Thanks,
> SG


Pool sand can have additives that help it filter a swimming pool and may not be helpful in an unchlorinated system with live organisms. It may be clean, but rinsing it is still a useful idea. Avoid the types that have these additives such as alum or cellulose. They may cost more which is a clue to find out what they include before you buy them.


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

I've used two brands of PFS, and they both produced tons of cloudy water when I rinsed them in buckets. I'd always rinse to be safe. :thumb:


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## sgcichlids45 (Feb 1, 2015)

well although this brand Aqua Quartz standard grade #20 100% natural, thoroughly washed and a special grading process I will give a good rinse and start a fishless cycle.

Thx,
SG


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

The spec for PFS is #20 grit, inert, sharp sand. usually it is silica but doesn't have to be. Silica sand can usually be bought for less and is available in grits coarser than #20, (#16 and possibly #12) if one were to want a slightly coarser sand. It is also available in finer grades, such as #40 and #60. Another option is garnet, which is also used for sand blasting, is a red to brown colour, and doesn't have the hazards associated with breathing silica dust.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

BillD said:


> The spec for PFS is #20 grit, inert, sharp sand. usually it is silica but doesn't have to be. Silica sand can usually be bought for less and is available in grits coarser than #20, (#16 and possibly #12) if one were to want a slightly coarser sand. It is also available in finer grades, such as #40 and #60. Another option is garnet, which is also used for sand blasting, is a red to brown colour, and doesn't have the hazards associated with breathing silica dust.


Great answer. Silica also encourages the growth of diatoms, AKA brown algae, which can be a tank pest since most of the fish that eat it are bite size for most of our cichlids. And I thought I used Aragonite just because I like the looks of it. I have one tank with pool sand (came free with the tank). I suspect it has leached out all the soluble silica since someone else used it for a while before me. I do have mystery snails in that tank, along with red hump geos.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Mcdaphnia said:


> BillD said:
> 
> 
> > The spec for PFS is #20 grit, inert, sharp sand. usually it is silica but doesn't have to be. Silica sand can usually be bought for less and is available in grits coarser than #20, (#16 and possibly #12) if one were to want a slightly coarser sand. It is also available in finer grades, such as #40 and #60. Another option is garnet, which is also used for sand blasting, is a red to brown colour, and doesn't have the hazards associated with breathing silica dust.
> ...


Some good information in these two posts. I would like to draw attention to the part in Bills post that says "sharp sand". Something to keep in mind if you ever want to keep sandsifters. Sharp sand can damage their gills.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have both aragonite and pool filter sand (silica) in different tanks. Same diatom experience in each...I did not get more diatoms in the PFS tanks.


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## Loume (Dec 27, 2014)

noddy said:


> Mcdaphnia said:
> 
> 
> > BillD said:
> ...


We have a sand filter on our swimming pool. The sand for filters is purposely sharp because it traps particles much better. The manual tells us to replace the sand every 5 years because water erosion eventually smooths the grains and it loses it's filtering effectiveness.

Diatoms must have silica to to create their "shells" I believe. Pool filter silica sand is essentially crushed quartz.


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