# Just added a water softener? Are my fish okay?



## Frosty Power (Jan 17, 2009)

Hi everyone,

My first post here. Looks like a great forum. I just recently added a home water softener was wondering how this is going to affect my fish. I have a 90 G tank with about 50 chiclids, not too sure what kind(Ill have to google that). I have been on well water for a year now and the fish seem to love it. I'm now worried about the water softener addition(salt rocks added to water) and how that would impact my fish. Is there an additive I should be adding to the water? How do others in rural areas get around this? Any feedback would be great.

Thanks in advance,
Frosty


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

Any way that you can plumb a bypass around the softener for the tank?

-Ryan


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## Riceburner (Sep 3, 2008)

I'd bypass the softener for tank use.


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## Frosty Power (Jan 17, 2009)

Okay, just bypassed the water softener on my cold line to one faucet in my house that I use for water changes but there is no way for me to bypass hot water to/from hot water tank. Would this be okay for use or would I have to take cold water only and heat up(last option if at all avoidable)?


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## cevvin (May 2, 2008)

Do you have a rubbermaid trash can that you can store behind something that can atleast warm up to room temperature?


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## PaulineMi (Apr 3, 2008)

We use well water in a rural area. We've got a hose with two "attachments" that allows me to hook up to the hard cold water and to the spigot from the hot water tank. I adjust the flow so that the temperature of the water will match what's in the tank. The ph is 8, GH 10 and KH 12. I've been doing this for a year and all is well with the fish. Even have had the leleupi's spawn.


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## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

We have a water softener. 
 
Let's be clear, you should *not *have salt in your tap water when using a water softener. 
The water softener does an ion exchange to pull the hardness from the water. 
I don't know the chemistry of it, but the salt does not go into your water...
think about it, if it did, it would be bad for humans to drink.

If your water softener is working properly, the GH should be 0 and that is what you need to deal with.
Have you tested the tap water for GH? That is what will change using a water softener. 
Test the water from a spigot that is plumbed _before _it goes into the softener. What is that GH?
You can easily raise the GH by adding epsom salt found in the drug area of a grocery or department store.
You can experiment using a known measurement (like a gallon) and adding epsom salt to see how much it takes to raise to the level you need. 
(For example in 30 gallons it takes 4 Tbs. to raise my GH for 0 to 13dh.)

Try to match the GH that your tank is already. Your GH should be around 10dh/179ppm or more for most African cichlids.

hth

As a side note, did you install your water softener yourself? Where is the water discharged when it reginerates? 
Heads up:
If you have a septic system and the discharge goes into it, you may very well have septic problems. 
The discharge is brine (salt water) which will kill the beneficial bacteria in your septic tank.
Better check it out to be sure.


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## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention:
Welcome to cichlid_forum!
:thumb:


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## bolson (Jan 5, 2009)

Alicem,

We have a water softner as well but the kitchen facuets are both bypassed. We have SA Cichlids which actually prefer soft water. Do you think we could use the soft water from the bathroom facuet to achieve the preferred water quality? Can aquarium salt address the GH issue you mentioned.

I know a lot of SA Cichlid guys use RO, but frankly I'm not interested in investing in another water conditioner. I have always wondered why soft water from a softner system is that much different than RO. Your description of the softening process is correct. The salt pellets are used to clean "recharge" the ballast, there isn't any salt injected into the water system.


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## zugbug (Dec 12, 2005)

> Let's be clear, you should *not *have salt in your tap water when using a water softener.
> The water softener does an ion exchange to pull the hardness from the water.
> I don't know the chemistry of it, but the salt does not go into your water...
> think about it, if it did, it would be bad for humans to drink.


Well you wont get "salt" sodium chloride but you will get extra sodium in your water with a softener because of the ion exchange in the softener.. So for every molecule of calcium or magnesium in your water you're getting an ion of sodium. The harder your water the more sodium you get. And softeners can be bad for people with hypertension.


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## zugbug (Dec 12, 2005)

bolson said:


> Alicem,
> 
> We have a water softner as well but the kitchen facuets are both bypassed. We have SA Cichlids which actually prefer soft water. Do you think we could use the soft water from the bathroom facuet to achieve the preferred water quality? Can aquarium salt address the GH issue you mentioned.
> 
> I know a lot of SA Cichlid guys use RO, but frankly I'm not interested in investing in another water conditioner. I have always wondered why soft water from a softner system is that much different than RO. Your description of the softening process is correct. The salt pellets are used to clean "recharge" the ballast, there isn't any salt injected into the water system.


The RO units will remove all ions and essentially leave you with pure water. The softener will not. When you re-charge the softener with the brine solution you are reversing the process, in other words you are doing another ion exchange...the resin in the softener is now charged with calcium and magnesium and by saturating them with the brine the calcium/magnesium comes out of the resin and the sodium goes back in...ready to soften your water again


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

My africans have had "softened" water all their life. GH may be on the low but never "0"... the PH and KH are WAY high. If I were to use the water befor the softener, it would rust up my tank in no time.
That being said I don't know how your will do adapting to the change, maybe small water changes (10% or less) to slowly aclimate them to their new water....


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Softened water has a higher TDS, (Total Dissolved Solids) than the water would prior to softening. The reason being that (if I am correctly informed) the exchange is actually 2 Na ions for 1 Calcium ion.


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## zugbug (Dec 12, 2005)

BillD said:


> Softened water has a higher TDS, (Total Dissolved Solids) than the water would prior to softening. The reason being that (if I am correctly informed) the exchange is actually 2 Na ions for 1 Calcium ion.


you are correct! And to be exact the sodium will reform with carbonates sufates and chlorides to form sodium carbonate,sodium sulfate sodium chloride etc.


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

zugbug said:


> BillD said:
> 
> 
> > Softened water has a higher TDS, (Total Dissolved Solids) than the water would prior to softening. The reason being that (if I am correctly informed) the exchange is actually 2 Na ions for 1 Calcium ion.
> ...


Ok, for those of us who aren't Chemists... is that good or bad?


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## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

Hoosier Tank said:


> zugbug said:
> 
> 
> > BillD said:
> ...


Since we have been left twisting in the wind, I did some googleing and came up with some articles.
I don't know if it is what those guys were talking about, (no chemist here) but here's some info I found:
Here is a quote from this site http://www.lenntech.com/water-softener-faq.htm#5


> 5.2 Is softened water safe to drink?
> 
> Softened water still contains all the natural minerals that we need. It is only deprived off its calcium and magnesium contents, and some sodium is added during the softening process. That is why in most cases, softened water is perfectly safe to drink. It is advisable that softened water contains only up to 300mg/L of sodium.
> In areas with very high hardness the softened water must not be used for the preparation of baby-milk, due to the high sodium contant after the softening process has been carried out.
> ...


And a quote from how stuff works about water softener regeneration:
http://home.howstuffworks.com/question99.htm


> The remaining brine plus all of the calcium and magnesium is flushed out through a drain pipe. Regeneration can create a lot of salty water, by the way -- something like 25 gallons (95 liters).


So if the regeneration of the water softener flushes away the calcium, magnesium and the brine used to displace the calcium and magnesium from the zeolite, then what is left are the beads of zeolite covered with sodium ions. 
Ok, sodium ions...
I got this from allexperts.com


> *Question*I now live in Las Vegas and just installed a water softener. In doing so I discover what a local plumber told me was true, that there is a misconception with plumbers here that softwater is not for drinking and therefore the homes here are plumbed so that the cold side of the kitchen is HARD water. Isn't it true that you would have to drink many gallons of soft water to ingest the same amount of salt that you get from a few potato chips and an RO system can remove even that for those on a low sodium diet? This plumbing upsets me because I prefer the taste of soft water over hard and to hookup my ice and water dispensing fridge I will have to connect it to the hot side of the kitchen or run a line from the bathroom. I know I can't change the way contractors do their work but, for the sake of discussions, I would like the opinion of an expert. Thanks
> *Answer*
> A water softener substitutes sodium ions for hardness ions. Some units substitute potassium ions instead of sodium ions. Depending on how much hardness is in the water you are treating, you could be adding a little or a lot of sodium to the treated water. The plumbers in your area have probably arrived at the 'hot water only' treating scheme empirically. The type of scale the softening prevents is more severe at higher temperatures, so softening the hot water part of the system is efficient as well as effective. It costs alot less to treat only the hot water. If you are talking about RO, these systems can remove most of the dissolved species, resulting in deionized, almost pure, water. The water is usually tasteless, or 'flat', however.
> Most potable water has a total dissolved solids content of between 100 and 500 ppm. The amount of sodium chloride could vary from less than 50 ppm to more than 300 ppm, or about 20 to 100 ppm as sodium. Soft water produced from this potable water would have more sodium because salt is used to effect the removal of hardness ions. If you were talking consumption of RO product water instead of 'soft' water, the amount of sodium chloride could be 10 ppm (4 ppm as sodium)or less. A typical salty snack, Fritos, has about 170 ppm sodium in a one ounce serving. Dividing the range of sodium in the waters into the amount in the snack, we obtain a range of 1.7 to 42.5 liters for tap water to RO water, or about one-half to eleven gallons of water would have to be consumed to equal the sodium consumption in the one ounce snack.
> ...


We use potassium chloride instead of the standard water softener pellets in our water softener.
Hummm....
Googled that, and found "How lethal injection works"
Holy smokes, I'm done for! And you people were worried about a little salt. :lol:


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## zugbug (Dec 12, 2005)

Frosty Power said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> My first post here. Looks like a great forum. I just recently added a home water softener was wondering how this is going to affect my fish. I have a 90 G tank with about 50 chiclids, not too sure what kind(Ill have to google that). I have been on well water for a year now and the fish seem to love it. I'm now worried about the water softener addition(salt rocks added to water) and how that would impact my fish. Is there an additive I should be adding to the water? How do others in rural areas get around this? Any feedback would be great.
> 
> ...


Frosty..probably more information than you really needed. To answer your question if it were me I would by pass the softener for my fish.


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