# Live Project



## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Stage one, stand in place with 2"x2" wood batton holding it to the wall at the top, done earlier









This was done a little earlier this afternoon









And now









Next update whenthe next tank is set up.


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## oscars4me (Feb 22, 2009)

Cool opcorn:


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Filters and pumps


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

gravel in all three


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Tank in place after some fiddling with plugs


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

All tanks in the stand. Just water to put in and flaps.


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## jjleetest (Mar 12, 2009)

what sizes are the tanks?


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Ta Da!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



















This was posted on another thread, couldn't be bothreed to type it again!

"The rack we have has room for 3 x 48" x 12" x 12" tanks.

The top one is split in 3 and the others in to 2. Unfortunately one of the ones split in 2 has a bad crack in it but we were also given 3 x 2 foot tanks so I'm keeping the deepest one to use as a sump as and when we can afford the 1000 litre tank for the cats and we have replaced the cracked tank with the other 2.

This basically leaves us with 4 x 24" x 12" x 12" tanks = 56 litres each and 3 x 16" x 12" x 12" tanks = 37 litres each.

Hope that makes sense."


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Well guys, it's all still working well today. The water has cleared up over night and the tanks are cycling. Now we've just got to monitor the water for the next few weeks, slowly introduce some plants and play the waiting game for the water quality to come up so we can start stocking them!

Our house is starting to look like a fish shop though, 9 tanks, varing in size from 37 litres to 450 litres....... we are heating a total of 910 litres of water, can't wait for the next electric bill! lol :?


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## oscars4me (Feb 22, 2009)

What are you going to stock them with?


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

We're going to get plecs first as we,re not 100% sure what fish to get.

I have a geo in my 120L tank thats needs to come out as he/she is getting nipped, so that one tank taken up for now.

If anyone has any ideas what to keep in these tanks, that would be a good start to decide what to keep.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

what type of filtration do you have? you could do some kind of pleco breeding programme with that, maybe some nice bn's and also some apisto's would be nice with them


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

All of them have undergravel filters.

I like the zebra plec so that will be the first one we would get. I already have a BN, they have character but slightly boring in colour. We're the kind of people that like different species that are hard to get (not very often in this area do we have this happen).

The tanks aren't that big really. We have thought about breeding plecs. Its still in the deciding stages. ANY thoughts like people have been given is greatly appereciated


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## josmoloco (Aug 23, 2008)

true zebra plec = $200


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

That would Â£129.

What would you call a true zebra plec???


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## josmoloco (Aug 23, 2008)

I'm just referring to a genuine "real" zebra plec, not a similar or "not so similar" fish sold by a local fish store that knows nothing about fish keeping(you know, the stores that have firemouths listed as red devils). That price was an estimate, just look around in your area.


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

I've been looking around websites for pice comparison and it varies, so I'll just have to keep looking. Not one of our LFS have these speicmens. We're looking to travel about an hour and a half away at least but it will be worth it as no one I know has one (only know 3 people that have tanks :lol: ).

Then it will be deciding on what other plecs to get for the other tanks. Although we do have a list. Thats if we can get them.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

You really shouldn't put any Plecos in at all. Maybe a Clown or something in one of the smaller ones but thats still cutting it!

Thats one of the token fish n00b beginners mistakes!


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

L183 is a very attractive bn, its trade name is white seam ancistrus, a white edge to the dorsal and tail and white dots to a black body, plus they only grow 5-6 inches so a breeding pair could easily be kept in a 2 footer, the fy can also be kept with the parents till they reach an inch or so :thumb:


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

JWerner2 said:


> You really shouldn't put any Plecos in at all. Maybe a Clown or something in one of the smaller ones but thats still cutting it!
> 
> Thats one of the token fish n00b beginners mistakes!


Why would that be a mistake?


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

i think its because most plec's grow to a lrage size and wouldnt be happy in 2 foot tanks


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

L46 or something? Very pricey.


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## John7429 (Apr 12, 2009)

Very nice!


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

We know the special L numbers are very pricey but thats not an issue. In relation to size we are not new fish owners. The L046 Zebra Pleco grows to a maxium size of around 3 inches, so would be perfectly happy in one of the 56L tanks.

Please see the spec sheet
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=168


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

John7429 said:


> Very nice!


Thanks


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

if you find a l46 post some pics as they are one of my all time favorite plecs, l200 is nice too and would be perfectly happy in any tank thats 24 x 12 x12" anything bigger is even better again, i love these plecs and am getting one within the next week hopefully, it will cost me 30 euro for this one


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

padlock 08 said:


> if you find a l46 post some pics as they are one of my all time favorite plecs, l200 is nice too and would be perfectly happy in any tank thats 24 x 12 x12" anything bigger is even better again, i love these plecs and am getting one within the next week hopefully, it will cost me 30 euro for this one


I fell in love with the L046 as soon as I saw the pic. We're hoping to get L010a as well. We also like the Blue phantom as as you mentioned a L200 would be a good size plec to put in the tank.

Been think of starting a breedign programme for these plecs as we can not find them in our area. To get any that I have mentioned, we'll have to travel an hour and a half away possibly more. Just thought it would be any idea.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

bigcatsrus said:


> We know the special L numbers are very pricey but thats not an issue. In relation to size we are not new fish owners. The L046 Zebra Pleco grows to a maxium size of around 3 inches, so would be perfectly happy in one of the 56L tanks.
> 
> Please see the spec sheet
> http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=168


Zebras as far as size may be OK, but you cant always rely on size. Size makes no difference. Some small fish can still produce lots of waste and consume lots of food.

My Clown Pleco is pretty small and makes more waste then the rest of my fish put together! Not all that familiar as far as care for Zebras but there are many very sensitive Plecos that wouldnt do well simply cause of the low water volume and its inefficiency to keep up with diluting waste.

Just something to ponder.


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

I have asked a fair few people about Zebras and all seem to say the size tank would be good.

I have a lot of time on my hands, keeping up with wc won't be a problem. All the tanks will be looked after to the need of the individual plec. We won't mix them just one specie per tank. We will only use the 3 2' tanks and then use the 3 small ones to keep fry in. The other one will be a home bred lance fish to feed the shovelnose x red tail catfish that we have. We, I say we mainly me would only start in small steps so I can get a routine of maintaining the first tank and then build up to the next tank. Also this will take time to do.

This is only an idea.....


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

well if you are interested in breeding then zebra's are a good choice as they are possible to breed with a little work, planetcatfish says that l200 shouldnt be all too difficult to breed though there are no fry that have survived so far, l183 is also nice and is perfectly good for breeding, all these fish should fit in the 2 footers, for a challenge breeding wise you could also get one of the smaller gold nugget species but this might be pushing the tank size a bit far, a good rule for pleco sizeing for pleco's is 4 times the fish' total length for the tanks length and 2 times the fish' final length for tank width and height,

get some photo's of that red-tail and shovel-nose up please  , i love big cats but i dont have the space or time


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

I love the way it looks. Very nice job of matching tanks and putting them all in your stand. =D>

The only drawback I can see is that gravel vacuuming is going to be a B.


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

I've spoken to one of the moderators on planetcatfish about what plecs to get. We made a list and then asked which ones would be best. I'm hoping to get plecs from different areas to get them in my area. I've had interest from my friends down the road who would like a zebra plec, so thats a good start.

As for the gravel cleaning, wouldn't take long to do when you have time on your hands.

Heres a pic of the shovelnose x redtail catfish and giant giraffe catfish









If you want to see more let me know.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

those fish look beautiful, good job on them :thumb: :thumb: more please (this is just me being greedy now :lol: )


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

I'll put a thread up in the photo and videos area :thumb:


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

After a while of putting this all up, we have had to take down one of the 4 foot tanks as it has a leak. Put some aquarium sealant on at the weekend. Filled it up last night and still leaked. Going to put more sealant on and give it another test when dry. Hope this works.


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Changed mind of repairing the tank, we're going to get rid of it. Just means that we have 1 4' tank and 3 2' tanks.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

ill look it up now, ye that seems easier and less messy all round :thumb:


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Update on how it looks now.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

lookin good, did ya get the zebra yet?


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Not yet, theres a plan in place to get to the zebras.

First is practicing with some mollies, ok not logical but again its ust practice. Then I will get some Julidrochromis and then the zebs.

Its going to take a some time to get to the zebs. I may get them earlier but we'll just have to see


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

haha the longer you have to wait the sweeter they'll be, i have no problem getting them around here for about 230 euro, they are coming from a supplier in england too so maybe some of your lfs deal with them, i just cant remember their name off the top of my head, i will get it though, they're manager is aclled philip i think


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

I can get them but have to ask my bf nicely if he can drive me to get hem (don't drive as of yet). The cheapest I have found them so far Â£75 for a 2-3cm zeb.

Unfortunately none of my LFS supply them and this is why I would like to breed them. Some people may look upon this as it seems to me that its a special club to be in and I don't understand why this is?

I'm literally trying to help the keep species a live and give peole bit more of a choice then whats around


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

thats seems like a reasonable price as they are hard to come by and considering some other quotes, *** found that lfs dont stock them as they cost so much and the majority of their customers would just say "how much!!? for a stipy cleaner? can i not just get one of those brown one there for 8 pounds instead?" there arent many people wanting to pay in excess of 30 pounds for a plec, otherwise they just expect it to be made of gold or something. also because plecs tend to disappear and you only see them once in a while in a cluttered tank people feel they arent getting their money's worth when their tetra's are always visible. to breed these *** seen reports of people having to have groups, five being the norm, of these to breed them, because you will have paid so much for the parents you will have to charge high to make any money at all

check out this site, these guys know what they're talking about and they have a for sale section too


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

The aim is to trade the cichlids enough times to get some. This is the plan, we'll just have to see how it pans out.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

well good luck to you whatever you decide and congrats on the rack and the big cats


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Thanks padlock 08.

I'll keep things updated as things go along. I know their not cichlids but my mollies have given birth so the journey now begins.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

fish are fish, i always feel chuffed when i breed a fish, be it angels, rams, mbuna or guppies  :thumb:


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Its a good feeling as you know that your parameters are good enough for the fish to lay eggs or give birth.

She's only had 5 within a week of owning her, so tat leads me to believe that she was already preggers.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

hahaha it seems so, livebearers, especially guppies can hold sperm in their bodies for long periods of time and it has been known for mollies hat have been with no males for up to 3 months to still have fry  im getting into breeding and selling guppies now but i will keep all my females as seperate "virgin" females so people can pick the dads themselves


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

I have read that guppies and mollies are the same family.

Mollies can hold fertile eggs up to 5 months but release them in batches. I think this is her first which is why she had so little. I shall keep females separate from the males. That way when it comes to say goodbye to them, people will have a choice.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

yes both are from the family poecilidae, but mollies dont tend to hold eggs for quite as long as guppies. thats a good choice, just what im doing. the sexes arent distinguished until around 6 weeks so investing in a plastic breeder trap and magnifying glass is a good idea then you can look for the gonopodium and keep males away from females, if there are any your not sure of the sex put them with the males. also they generally take 6 months to grow to the size theyre found in shops


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

I'll keep a close eye on them. Not working atm kinda helps with time issues and not getting soooo bored.

Again from what I have read, mollies hold live 24-28 days. After having looked at my other females I think I have another 2 that maybe pregnant. My male is less than an inch, which my friend kindly donated to me (only as she wants some of the babies).

I have 2 dalmations and orange and black females. The male is also a dalmation. Its going to be a busy time soon.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

they mature unbelievably fast and i wouldnt be surprised if that male has been mature for some time, live-bearers are very prolific so you will be busy with them :thumb: :wink:


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

I am fully aware how fast they mature and how fast they reproduce.

My suspiscion of the 2 mollies of being preggers is right. Now time to take them out and put them in their own 16"x12"x12" tank and wait for them to pop out the babies.

Question for you, have you had any problems with any of you guppies or mollies giving birth?
My friend that donated the male has a female ballon molly that is pregnant (for months) but has given birth for a few weeks, would she be at the end of giving birth?


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

nope, *** never had any problems with birthing, some just hold longer than others and some go off their food for a day or two before birthing, i put these ones in a floating trap for a day till they get their strength back. some can stretch out birthing for a period of a few weeks if they dont feel the fry will survive, i believe the only way to tell if she's nearly done is to see how many babies she's already dropped and see if thats the average amount, didi that answer the question?


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

It has indeed.

They have put her in the trap before and nothing happened. As far as I'm aware she hasn't given birth again and only had a few. I think she's done but how can you say that to a close friend, who thinks they know absolutly everything (even trying to give me advise about my water quality, gets changed every 2 days). She does have the tendency to over feed the babies and other fish. Its that bad the water is cloudy, cso I've had to say that she needs to do water changes every day or 2 just to get the water right. I think this maybe one reason to why the molly hasn't given birth to any more.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

Hahaha typical :roll: the female is probably stressed and doesnt feel it a safe environment to release fry, dont leave them in the trap for more than a day as this can cause problems, i asked a friend today also and he said that over-fed females can sometimes have problems birthing, but this is rare and i have never seen it, maybe tell your friend to set up another, small tank and put the female in there and dont feed as much so she can see when she is starting to square up with fry, which is an indication that she's about to drop


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

The problem I face with my friend is trying to explain why over feeding is such an issue. She listens but doesn't always take the advice and carries on with the feeding. My bf has tried to explain this as well.

She does have another tank set up that has no fish in and I was thinking on lines that you have mentioned to move her in there as she is so big. I haven't spoken to her in a couple of days so I don't know if she has kept up with the water changes (I shall find out). The fish does look stressed as she hides out in the bottom of the tank.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

yes, she deffinatly sounds like she's ready to drop but just does'nt feel safe enough, suggest the new tank and see how it goes, thats the only olution really


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

I shall suggest it but not sure if this will be done as I know my friend will say she wants to put other fish in the spare tank. Lets see how that goes.


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

are bettas live bearers? sorry i was just reading ure guyses discussion and it just poped up in my head


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

After juat reading they are egg layers.

Read this BRANT13
http://www.articlealley.com/article_3852_32.html


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

BRANT13 said:


> are bettas live bearers? sorry i was just reading ure guyses discussion and it just poped up in my head


 no, siamese fighters are labyrinth bubble nesters. the male will build a buuble nest out of mucus and air from his labyrinth organ and will place the eggs in it, the femlae has no parental care involved and if she stays in the tank when the male in defending his nest she will likely be killed. the fry are smaller than livebearers and there will be around 500 compared to the 30-80 typical of livebearers.

*bigcatsrus* let me know how things develop anyway will you?


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

sure, she moved her in the big tank now


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

thanx both of u just curious is all


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Thanks quite alright BRANT13.


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Now have 3 Julidrochromis Dickifeldi and 3 albino plecs. Plecs need to get bigger before going in their designated tanks, only 2cm.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

bigcatsrus said:


> Now have 3 Julidrochromis Dickifeldi


what are these? a google search didnt work :?


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

They are in the profiles section.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

found em, nice fish  are you going to keep them in the rack or move them somwhere else?


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

They will stay in the rack. And then we'll see what happens from now.


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## padlock 08 (Jul 31, 2008)

well good luck and congratulations on the fry and the rack :thumb:


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## bigcatsrus (Apr 15, 2009)

Thank you very much. Just got to let them settle in and se how things go. So exciting!!!


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