# Possible Bloat? Is it contagious?



## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

I just finished my 125 gallon project about 4-5 weeks ago. I artificially cycled my tank and introduced about 45 fish I ordered online. For the first week I only had one that died (albino that ended up being blind). Since then there has always been 2-3 fish that showed signs of stress and possible bloat. (not eating, hiding while all the other fish were out in the open together, White Poo,) I figured it was probably stress and or bloat from shipping and introducing to a new tank. I tried taking the first 2 out and put in a Q tank. they died the next day. Then in the main tank, I would see the symptoms take on one fish at a time. eventually killing the fish in about 1 week of not eating. I have lost about 12 fish now and dont know what is going on. It never really shows on more than one or two at once and all the other fish are doing great (growing, eating, males starting to really color nicely). I dont think bloat is contagious as it is a parasite that is in all healthy fish that only damages a fish that is stressed and loses its ability to fight it. Am I wrong?
My plan at first was to just let the strong fight it and the weak die since there isnt much I can do when its bloat. And it just keeps happening.

My water parameters as of this morning are:
nitrite .00ppm
nitrate .05pmm
Amonia .00pmm
ph 8.0
83 F
30% water change every 3 days
lights on from 11am to 9pm (4 t5HO)
feeding spiralina flakes twice daily for 3 days straight and Cichlid Attack! brand mini pellets on the 4th day once.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi



> I dont think bloat is contagious as it is a parasite that is in all healthy fish that only damages a fish that is stressed and loses its ability to fight it.


Well it is contagious but I don't blame you for the confusion on how/why it is--I've wondered the same thing. Healthy fish become infected when they mouth infected feces but if they are healthy then wouldn't they be immune/able to fight it off? 
Answer: I don't know. 
It's possible that once the tank becomes infected that the intestinal flagellates are so numerous in the water column--not just the fish's intestines-- that all fish are at risk. That's perhaps one reason why large water changes and gravel siphonings during treatment may help during treatment. 
I always say that with bloat we may not know everything about how and why fish get it but we do have treatment methods that are pretty effective in getting rid of it.

So: you should treat your entire tank. Start off with a 50% water change and gravel siphoning using a good quality declorinator.
Then treat the tank with either Jungle Parasite Clear or Clout. Follow the directions on the package. Feed the fish sparingly during treatment. Once a day at most.

One note here: your tank was only recently cycled and then you added quite a few fish--a significant challenge for even a well established bio filter. Therefore it's very important that you double check your testing of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Make sure your test kit is relatively new and generally speaking the test tube type are more reliable then the test strip kind. Test every couple of days. Make sure also that you remove any dead fish ASAP.

Robin


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

And no need for the water to be that warm. 80 would be better.


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## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

thank you i guess i will treat the tank.
I do have the test tube kit and know the water parameters are correct. I artificially cycled with pure ammonia for 3 weeks and have a huge bioload. Also, I didnt put all the fish in at once. I had about 5 in there for 3 days, then 25, and a week later about 14. I dont know if that is much fo a difference, but I thought at first that the first couple of casualties were due to stress from doing that and I was ok with it. But when 5 weeks later, fish that have been perfectly healthy the whole time starting showing signs, that is what worried me.
Thank you for the advise though, i will go the clout way sinse i have heard more success with that than the jungle stuff.


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## fancy diver (Mar 21, 2009)

Potential bio load is irrelevant. It's good you have it for the future of the tank.It probably hasnt been enough time for bacteria to colonize w/ the huge loads of fish your putting in way too fast.


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## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

I just bought API anti-parasitic medication that has Metronidazole and praziquntel as the active ingredients. The Jungle stuff and the clout were out at my pets mart. I also bought some jungle anti parasite medicated food. Is this ok to use with the medication? it also has those same two ingredients. Is this ok?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

It's probably fine to use the two meds together but you might just give a quick call to one or the other manufaturer and ask. Just because they share some ingredients doesn't meant that there arn't some in-compatible ingredients, also.

Thanks for the clarifacation on how you cycled and added the fish--sounds good. One of the advantages of cycyling with amonia is that you can prepare your bio filter for a large bio load if you so choose. Still, and I say this with any new tank and especially a new tank with sick/dieing fish: keep testing the water for the next few weeks.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes

Robin


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## Denny (Sep 27, 2008)

Read up on furanace. Very effective in curring bloat. Isolate the fish in Q TANK. The furanace will turn the tank water yellowish-green. This is normal. Don't overfeed your fish. Left over food turning bad and then eaten by your fish is the main cause of bloat. Keep them slightly hungry


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## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

Update:
I dosed the Medication I bought, followed the instructions and waited 48 hours then dosed again, waited another 48 hours (feeding the medicated food sparingly throughout) and did a 60% water change last night. This morning I cant really tell if it did the trick, there are a few fish that were just a little strange before hand that are back to normal, and two fish that still seem pretty stressed, I havent turned the lights on for the whole process and will leave them off for today after the water change and see if they bounce back.
fingers crossed for the little guys. I hope it isnt something else.


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## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

ps:
my fish still have white stringy poop, Is this ok? i would assume that maybe its just cleansing them out, they have hardly eaten for 4 days, and it was medicated when they did.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

What symptoms are the 'pretty stressed' fish showing? 
Are all fish eating? Do some fish stay hidden or up at the top and only come out when it's feeding time? If so then that may be aggression from another fish. What species are they and how many of each?

I'd continue to watch the tank closely. You want to verify that all fish are eating at every feeding as appetite is usually one of the first things to go with bloat and many other illnesses. If some fish are not swimming much then that may indicate a continuing problem, also.

Robin


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## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

well.. almost the entire tank is aulonocaras of about 5 types. they are too young to really tell which is which species. There is one black calvus, one 7 stripe frontosa (both about 3 inches) and 4 cyntolopia afra cobue (all juvies). I havent seen any fish very aggressive toward any other yet. there is a lot of space and a lot to hide in. The effected fish are not eating (even after the bloat treatment) they are staying close to the bottom under plants or behind rocks, just chillin. All the other fish seem fine and go up to the top when i approach for feeding.
the only fish that are sick are peacocks. there are three of them and they are all different species. But this keeps taking out 2 fish at a time. I have done 45% water changes every day after the treatment ended and am still keeping the main lights off and leaving the lunar lights on.
I really dont know what else to do! my water still tests ok. I even got new tests, just in case mine were old.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Sounds like you're doing everything right--some of the species, male/female ratios may not work out long term but in a 125 gallon tank and most of them juveniles I agree that aggression is probably not a factor _right now_.

Diagnosing sick fish that are new to the tank is always a little more difficult because you don't know if the fish came to you with something going on that was made worse by the stress of being moved to a new set up or if there's something going on in your tank that's making healthy fish sick. 
It is possible that it's bloat and you just need to treat longer or perhaps change to an other med. 
What are you using for a declorinator? If your water has chloramines added to it then you want to make sure that you're using a declorinator that can handle them--not all declorinators can. Where you're doing large water changes the impact of any untreated chloramine would be greater and some fish are going to be more sensitive to it. Could be having an impact on their ability to recover. . .

In the library section of this site under the Health Heading is an article on Spironucleus, In it he outlines a treatment for bloat using pure metronidazole. Check it out.

Ideally you should treat the still-sick fish in a quarantine tank. Not an easy task catching them when you've got a 125g. Supposedly the metronidazole is not harmful so it won't be the end of the world if you continue to treat all fish in the 125.

Robin


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## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

i just set up a 10 gallon Q-tank. I will put the three that are not eating in there and re-medicate. Do you know where to but that stuff?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

I've always used Seachem Metronidazole powder and I bought it online. Some fish stores may carry it. Sometimes you have to get the tablets and then crush them up. 
On the Seachem label they advise treating something like every other day but personally I'd go with the dosing schedule and amounts that are described in the article.

Good luck--let me know how it goes

Robin


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## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

OMG! ok so now there is a big white string growing of the side of one of my fish. this is not bloat. Any idea? some kind of parasite. how to treat? its a white area just behind its fin and a big white worm thing.


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## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

further observation, it seems that it starts as a white spot behind the fin. (another fish)
the one with a growth has a white spot with black (scab like or maybe an anchor) with little white wormy things hanging off of it. 
I quarantined the two fish showing these signs. but need to know what it is and how to treat. and if all my fish are basically infected and i should treat them all or just the two with the visual signs.


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## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

the second one died.
its body had a hole in it about the size of an eye wide.
Anyone? the holes appear on the same spot of each fish, right behind the fins (chest area) on one side.
it starts as a whitening of the scales until the fish dies and it forms a hole.
Help!?!


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## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

another died with the whitening appearing. it looks as though this is internal and is eating the fish from the inside until ti busts through one of its sides making a hole. Another on just died in the last hour. I think this may just take out my entire tank of 30 fish :x :x :x :x :x :x :x


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Really sorry I missed the update on this post.

Sounds like Columnaris--a bacterial infection. Here's what you do:

Partial water change of 30%
Lower water temp to 77'
Increase areation
Add aquarium salt at the rate of 1-2 tablespoons per five gallons
Medicate, medication choices:
Maracyn and Maracyn-two, used TOGETHER
Kanamycin
Maracyn Plus
Triple Sulfa
KanaPlex

In the forum's library there is an article on Columnaris. He's not a fan of antibiotics but he does outline a SALT BATH treatment, (different than just adding a few Ts of salt per five gallons)and you might consider doing that. Salt doesn't kill the bacteria. It prevents it from adhering to the fish's skin.

Columnaris is caused by a bacteria that normally resides harmlessly in the tank and only becomes a problem when the fish is stressed. So it may have been bloat all along but then because the fish were stressed the Columnaris got in there. Depending on the strain Columnaris can take anywhere from a week to hours to kill a fish.

Really sorry you lost fish. I will be at work most of the day but I'll check the forum as soon as I get home.

Robin


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## Carmesi (May 8, 2008)

thank you so much robin.
I have 3 fish quarantined, and for the last few days there hasnt been anymore fish in the main tank show any signs. *knock on wood*
i think i am going to treat the quarantine with meds and the main tank with just salt (just in case)
So I should use any of all those medications with salt?

oh and weird side note. I have two cherry barbs that were in the quarantine tank at first when i put the three fish in there. For some reason the cherry barb would run to the fish with the rotting spot on its side and suck on it, and the sick fish would turn its body to make it easier for the cherry barb. It was weirding me out. He wasnt nipping at the sick fish just sucking on the infected area. And this was about 10 seconds after putting the sick fish in with it.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

The salt can be used with any med but be careful about mixing meds.

Fish will pick at injured areas on other fish. I've never heard of it being a good thing--that is odd that the sick fish seemed to welcome it.

I am so glad you haven't lost more fish. Columnaris can move so quickly that you often dont have time to medicate.

On the more positive side there have been a fair number of instances on this forum where people report their fish has a gaping hole in it's side--an eruption from the inside out--and the fish have made a complete recovery.

Feed all fish sparingly during this time. Especially any fish that have a hole in thier sides.

Robin


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