# Hybrid Neolamprologus



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I had a few requests to post these once I finally took pictures...

Neolamprologus buescheri x Neolamprologus nigriventris


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

It is a good looking fish.... were these accidentally or intentionally bred? Any particular reason for growing them out? Just curious.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

They were an accidental breeding. The reason they've been grown out, is that they survived in a heavily rocked, community aquarium. I thought they'd get eaten... they didn't. I wasn't going to remove some 300-400lbs of rock to catch two small babies just because they were hybrids. Now that they've survived, I don't feel inclined to do much, beyond let them live in the tank.


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

weird looking buggers !! opcorn:

it's funny.... remember way back when when I was trying to decide who would be the best tank mate for my nigriventris... I think calvus, buescheri, leleupi and brichardi were some of the options....

I picked beuscheri :lol: to grow them out together....

Good thing I removed the buescheri once they became of breeding age


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## JRFowler (Apr 2, 2009)

fantastic looking fish, just goes to show you one of the freaks of nature that can occur, but with remarkable results. well done


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

I think he/she looks awsome


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Interesting


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

DEATH TO ALL HYBRIDS!!!
Daniel


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

... If you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all.


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

danielratti said:


> ... If you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all.


You have a nice first name.  
Thanks,
Daniel


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

Haha yeah. I actually like that fish it looks unique.


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

A great first name, but not the refine taste I would expect! :wink: 
Thanks,
Daniel


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

Lets stay on topic guys :wink:

The fact is sometimes hybrids occur ... especially when people try new things or ideas that "should" work.

This is not saying hyrids are ok...


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Hybrid or not the fish looks great. Not only that I doubt the OP is that irresponsible to do anything dumb with the hybrids or even has the capability. Seriously.

I like that he did not destroy them. Shows that he cares about a living organism no matter how it was produced.

I wonder what life would be like if we culled out all the abnormal humans who have nothing good to say? :roll:


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I am fairly anti-hybrid, and vocal about it. My biggest beef is with fish that are distributed as pure, that unsuspecting hobbyists breed and they end up polluting pure strains. There are many examples of these, such as the all yellow lab, albino fryeri and mixed brichardi/pulcher daffodils.

We do what we can, and recommend people do the same, to avoid hybrids. Where people have hybrids, I typically recommend that people ensure that they don't leave their house. I've fed off hybrids before, and am likely to do so again in the future.

In this case, I had a single female Neolamprologus nigriventris wild caught (left single when a pair of L. nkambae went on a rampage) in a mixed tank, with a single N. buescheri. (An old man who I don't have the heart to part with).

This is a 125 gallon flat tank (18" tall x 24" deep x 6' long) with some 30 or so adult Lamprologines. Typically the probability any fry will survive in such a tank is approaching zero. I have other fish spawn, and unless I remove the fry, they are gone within two weeks. I never thought these would survive, and yet they have. For surviving in such conditions, I'll keep the two of them, but you can believe they will never leave my house, no matter what is offered for them. I wish to keep species and lines in the hobby pure.

I've since picked up 8 N. nigriventris F1's, that are approaching a reasonable size, and hope to obtain a couple of pairs, so I can breed pure nigriventris.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

My question is what are the odds of some hybrids such as these surviving in the wild if hybridization would occur? Surely Im not big on hybrids but I would only assume that it is possible and does happen in nature.


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

I would take those fish :lol: 
i wouldnt breed em, but they look cool and would make for a nice show fish.

well, my guess is that if a hybrid was produced, the pair would keep on producing and then the fry of those would pair off and etc and later on, we will say "This is a new fish from Lake Tanganyika. New Discovery!"


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

JWerner2 said:


> My question is what are the odds of some hybrids such as these surviving in the wild if hybridization would occur? Surely Im not big on hybrids but I would only assume that it is possible and does happen in nature.


Rarely would such an occurance happen in the wild though. This is a situation where there are no correct mates available, and I would assume that in the wild the correct mates are mostly available.

However, it does happen.

There is an article worth reading...

Speciation via introgressive hybridization in East African cichlids?

If you can find a .pdf on the internet. I've downloaded it in the past.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

"Reticulate phylogeny of gastropod-shell-breeding cichlids from Lake Tanganyika â€" the result of repeated introgressive hybridization"

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/7/7 is the link. It was an interesting read, but I did think that they stretched some of their conclusions a bit.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

It's not a bad looking fish, but as is the case with many hybrids, it's not as good looking as either of it's parents, n. buescheri or n. nigriventris IMO.


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

Tim,
Your "opining" is right on the mark! :thumb: 
Thanks,
Daniel


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

I agree on that one...

Doesn't even come close to a nigriventris...


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

Its more like 80% buescheri and 20% Nigriventris :lol: 
But i still think it looks nice..


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## Andy000 (Mar 9, 2007)

has anyone ever thought of making a completly new species by hybridizing? i think if someone could get really nice looking hybrids they should breed them and eventually make a new strain of the species.

but i agree if theyre no good, to just never let them leave the house or lem them live till they die..

but im just really fascinated by the whole making a completly new strain of fish. i hope someone does and i hope its a really beautiful one


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

Um that's not a good idea.
People shouldn't put the work of a higher force into there hands to make a new species.
Leave it up to nature please. That's my opinion that all.


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## Andy000 (Mar 9, 2007)

okay i guess its a good idea to just leave it to nature. sorry


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Andy000 said:


> has anyone ever thought of making a completly new species by hybridizing? i think if someone could get really nice looking hybrids they should breed them and eventually make a new strain of the species.
> 
> but i agree if theyre no good, to just never let them leave the house or lem them live till they die..
> 
> but im just really fascinated by the whole making a completly new strain of fish. i hope someone does and i hope its a really beautiful one


There are lots of line bred fish, like flowerhorns and strawberry peacocks.


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## smidey (Mar 15, 2007)

Darkside said:


> Andy000 said:
> 
> 
> > has anyone ever thought of making a completly new species by hybridizing? i think if someone could get really nice looking hybrids they should breed them and eventually make a new strain of the species.
> ...


dragon bloods to


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## SidGuppy (Sep 9, 2002)

there are a fair number of very popular hybrids in the hobby

FWIW the flowerhorn is NOT a linebred version of the trimac, but a hybrid.
there is Cichlasoma trimaculatus in there, but also a pinch of parachromis and likely some Cichlasoma urophthalmus as well. the more orange varieties carry Amphilophus citrinellum and/or Amphilophus labiatus genes.
another fairly obvious ancestor in the genepool of the flowerhorns is Vieja synspilum.

the disgusting "parrotfish" with its' balloonshaped body and it's malformed mouth is a hybrid; several species were used in its' creation, most notable are Heros severus and Amphilophus citrinellum

the very popular OB mixed with blue spotted "Aulonocara Fivecolor" is another hybrid between 2 genera at least (if not 3 or more); several Aulonocara species and a more robust highbuilt Malawian, probably Otopharynx lithobates and/or Protomelas spp.

Aulonocara "Rubin Red", A 'Firefish" and A 'red dragon' are all hybrids within the genus of Aulonocara.

'Lamprologus' "black ocellatus" is another hybrid: 'Lamprologus' ocellatus x 'Lamprologus' speciosus.

many unnoticed hybrids are also around;
most "ahli" are Sciaenochromis ahli x Otopharynx lithobates. 
telltale sign: 3 dark grey spots. if your Electric blue ahli has these (check the females!), there's lithobates in its' ancestry.

Neolamprologus pulcher 'daffodil' x N brichardi; brichardi with yellow fins. 
the orange species within the brichardi complex all crossbreed and also crossbreed with any other species from that complex.
you have to search quite hard for some of the following species to get a true strain instead of a hybrid strain: 
Neolamprologus brichardi, N olivaceous, N pulcher, N pulcher 'Daffodil', N gracilis, N cygnus, N helianthus, N kiumba, N marunguensis etc.

many Julidochromis are not unpolluted anymore. regani readily crossbreeds with marlieri; transcriptus crossbreeds with "Gombe" and the Gombe can also crossbreed with the 2 larger Juli's.

the list goes on and on.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Do you really have to search so hard with Germany right on your doorstep?


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

I thought Speciosus were black ocellatus :-?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Multies said:


> I thought Speciosus were black ocellatus :-?


That is what we've called speciocus over here.


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

So are black occies really hybrids?


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Multies said:


> So are black occies really hybrids?


Nope.


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## SidGuppy (Sep 9, 2002)

speciosus is NOT a variety of the ocellatus, but a different species.

and yes, there are hybrids in the trade, sold as 'black ocellatus" wich is a crossbreed between the 2 species.

if you ant genuine speciosus, ask for them by name, cause if you buy 'black occies' you might end up with real speciosus, but then again, you might not.


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

I already know Speciosus are not a variety of Ocellatus. 
Im just saying that most people know Speciosus as Black ocellatus because of their shape and colour.

and What im asking is are they the same fish? Lamprologus Speciosus are usually known as Black Ocellatus. I dont think the common name has anything to do with hybrids. 
Its hard to trust when there is no hard physical evidence.


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