# just thinking out loud...might be a daft idea??



## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

i now seem to be having a blank canvas of a 60inch by 24 by 24 inch space to play with.

the long side will be along a wall..

lots of guys in similar situations seem to favour the plie of rocks down the middle of the tank not touching the sides.

if you want to take it further then it might be a 3d background for asthetic purposes.

what i was wondering was why doesnt anyone actually create a real solid rockwall with caves ect along the backface with real rocks....

and then still have your rocky foreground...thus creating lots of potential territories ect...

and the other three edges laid to sand/gravel.

why not ....i havent seen it done...but maybe it has ....or if not then why??

love to hear your opinions guys??


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

I see nothing wrong with the idea at all. Having a tank 24" deep gives you a lot of posibilitys. For a lot of us painting the background or building/ordering a 3D background for aesthetic purposes is our only choice because most tanks don't offer such a generous depth.

I'm doing something similar to what your suggesting in my 350g project but am using concrete instead of rock. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=

Have you given any consideration to what rock you would use or how you would build the structures?


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

interesting !!..... in my mind i had the simple idea of just piling up regular rocks along the back..much the same as what has been used for the usual down the middle afair....it would be nice to get some kind of uniform look like strata but i would expect that you would have to take a chunk that already exists and adjust .....

just seems so obvious but i cant understand why it hasnt been done before.....

your concrete idea ...on my first impression seem like a lot of work and might need a lot of algae ..weathering ect to bring it into the natural look......and im sure you will succeed ..but more work than i was planning at this stage.

thanks for that!!


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

Actually I'm in the process now of coloring the formations to look like gniess using liquid concrete coloring and acryilic fortifier mixed with either grey or white thinset. Eventually I'm hoping to get algae to grow but not sure if I'll have enough lighting to punch all the way to the bottom of the tank.

Piling your rocks straight up against the back could be problematic without using epoxy to hold them together. I would suggest starting with a wide base and tapering to the top. Also having stacks piled against the background and coming out towards the front of the tank would act as buttresses to help support the whole thing. Just throwing out some ideas.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

actually using glue of some sorts was foremost in my mind but i forgot to mention it ...but yes.

and also tracking your project ....you are pushing the envelope!!


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## fishyfishyfishy (Dec 24, 2005)

Keep an eye out on "My Tanks" or the "Your Tanks" sections for my 450g Custom Bow. I entered the info and pics a few days ago and am just waiting for it to show up any minute now I guess.

The tank is 90" long and 30" deep at the sides and bows out to 40" at the center of the bow. This gave me lots of room to create an arrangement of real rock that slopes up towards the rear and just about to the very top of the tank. No background needed this way and the fish are swimming at all levels in the tank.

I've seen tanks here with real rock backgrounds as well. Basically they were siliconed to the back and the overlapping created some caves. They look great, especially when the rock matches the foreground rock. Only thing I sometimes don't care for is the "orientation" of the rock where the rock background looks how I'd see rock if I were looking down on it as opposed to looking at it from the side, if I'm explaining myself correctly.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

any links to such tanks please??

i suspect that is the crux.......if the rocks are too fake in the haphazard way the are put together then it probably just wont work.


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## DMWave45 (Jan 22, 2008)

I think it's been done but it's just that most people don't have tanks that deep so any rock formation basically takes up the entire width front to back. Thus it looks like the rocks are in the middle but they are really touching the back.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

DMWave45 said:


> I think it's been done but it's just that most people don't have tanks that deep so any rock formation basically takes up the entire width front to back. Thus it looks like the rocks are in the middle but they are really touching the back.


 Twenty years ago, real rocks were the way it was and had long been done. Once tanks started having thin glass bottoms instead of slate or thick glass, then the weight of rocks became a concern and people started adding chunks of styrofoam to counter some of the weight. Now we go overboard the other direction and worry about our background breaking loose and taking out the canopy above, or the cross braces on, the tank.


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Twenty years ago, real rocks were the way it was and had long been done. Once tanks started having thin glass bottoms instead of slate or thick glass, then the weight of rocks became a concern and people started adding chunks of styrofoam to counter some of the weight. Now we go overboard the other direction and worry about our background breaking loose and taking out the canopy above, or the cross braces on, the tank.


This is why I went with the lightweight concrete. I had been thinking about it for a while and in one of your experianced filled answers you had suggested to an OP that if mixed right the concrete would have nuetral to slightly heavier than water weight. The mix I used for the structures is of nuetral bouyancy and the mortar skin I put on them much the same way you would apply it to styrofoam gives it enough weight to stay down and are still not as heavy as stone. The best of both worlds imo.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

zazz said:


> actually using glue of some sorts was foremost in my mind but i forgot to mention it ...but yes.
> 
> and also tracking your project ....you are pushing the envelope!!


What people used to stabilize their rock piles was what is still used to make stone walls and brick walls -- mortar.

I like the simplicity of using waterfall/pond foam sealant. It's black so any place it shows looks natural and it dries in hours and does not affect pH.


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

I've created a rock out of styrofoam and expanding foam. Then I shaped it with a knife and I am ready for the paint stage.

I am skeptical about Krylon Fusion, because it would be bonding to foam and not a flat surface.

I may give it a trial fun soon though.


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## fishyfishyfishy (Dec 24, 2005)

ok...my tank is now up....click on TANKS or YOUR TANKS to see.

sorry I didn't have any specific links to the tanks I mentioned...I've spent countless hours going through posts and looking at tanks, but didn't save any links as I did it


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