# What to do with an agressive Kingsizei?



## Mungobrush (Jan 10, 2009)

I am new to this and have had my 80 litre (21g) tank for 10 months. All the fish (Lake malawi cichlids) have grown quite a lot since a friend of mine who breeds tham gave them to me. Now I have a few problems with fighting.

What should I do?

I lost one female electric yellow who got beaten up and then had to take out 2 male electrics into a hospital tank as they were also getting beaten up. They are on the mend. I now have 10 fish:

1 aggressive male Kingsizei
1 female demasoni
1 unsexed Maingano (medium agressive)
1 male Cobue
1 male Kadango
2 female and 1 male electric yellows
2 cat fish
1 snail

I have plenty of rocks and cover. The Kingsizei is still very agressive and the three electric yellows hide up in the left hand corner. He also digs a lot and is very territortial.

I am thinking of taking the Kingsizei to the fish shop or putting him in the back-up tank and putting the two electric yellow males back in the tank. Is this too many fish for a 80L tank?

Any comments appreciated.

Mungobrush


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

I'd say way too many for that small a tank. You can cram tons of rocks in there and that will help but 21 gallons is pretty small for these fish. When I pick out males of a species, i tend to pick the third most dominant male (based on size and colour). It shows good genes but not the most aggressive so they don't tend to get hyper dominant. Your Kingsizei may just be a mean SOB, but it's hard to tell with a tank that size. put them in a 55 and if he's still a little ******* he may just be a cichlid with a mean temperment.

by the way, that kadango will get 9" long on his own, so your going to need a bigger tank anyway, probably now by the sounds of it.


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## Mungobrush (Jan 10, 2009)

Thanks for your comments very helpful. Unfortunately I have run out of money to upgrade, so something will have to go. Perhaps I'll upgrade the hospital tank into a proper tank and put the Kingsizei in there, maybe with the kadango then and return one electric yellow. The back up tank is 50L and its out in my shed. It sounds like I may need to rethink the whole set-up. Any advice what to leave in?

Cheers,
Mungo.


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

I'd say they are all too big for that size tank. unless you keep them singly. even yellow labs that are supposed to be 5" max i've seen one monster 7" male. See if you could trade them in for credit to get some dwarfs, either shelldwellers or a group of 5-6 saulosi. Demasoni stay small but are very mean to their own or similar coloured fish. Saulosi are one of my favorites, though and are pretty peaceful, and when you get money to upgrade you can still do an mbuna tank with them in there. The males look very much like a kingsizei and stay that size as well and the females range from yellowish to orange depending on the area of the lake they come from. I love the colours of male kadangos but only keep them in bigger more open water setups. typically that size tank would only be good for one 5" mbuna since they are territorial and the tank is way too small to overcrowd it. Unless you want to change it to a community tank of tetras or guppies, etc. I've only kept mbuna and some utaka, so I really can't help with SA cichlids, but someone should be able to.

Is it your desire to keep rift lake cichlids, or are you open to other types? If that's the case I'd go with saulosi since they have nice colour and are dimorphic and tend to school together, for some reason. I use them as a mbuna dither fish, believe it or not. There are some smaller shelldwellers from Tanganyka that would work, but I would say you probably have a one species tank at that size.

The catfish (depending on species) usually get fairly large. There is one species of synodontus that stays 6" long, but I'm not sure which one that that is. not sure where you want to go with this but if you get some dwarf mbuna that aren't too rowdy, when you have the money you can upgrade to a bigger tank (i'd say shoot for a 75gallon over a 55, doesn't cost that much more) you would be able to have a proper mbuna community tank.


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## Mungobrush (Jan 10, 2009)

Thanks Nipzie, good advice. I will try to stick with the fish types I have for now. I am obviously on a steep learning curve. I have been reading a bit more and now realise how niave I am in trying to keep all those fish in one 20G tank. The Maingano and Kingsizei will have to go back to the fish shop I think, as they are the most aggressive. I have now had also to move the male Cobue into the secondary tank as he lost half his back tail. Things have settle down a bit but the yellow labs are still scarred although their tails remain pretty much intact and for the most part the main tank in statis quo for now.

I am now considering: option 1:

removing the: 1 aggressive male Kingsizei and 1 unsexed Maingano (medium agressive) back to the fish shop leaving:

1 female demasoni
1 male Kadango (6cm)
2 female and 1 male electric yellows
2 cat fish
1 snail

and then reintroducing the 2 male ecectric yellows and seeing what happens.

or,

making the tank an all electric yellow:

2 female and 1 male electric yellows
+ the two recovering beaten up males from the hospital/seconadry tank in the shed giving a grand total of 5 elctric yelows and 2 catfish only.

The rest will go to the fish shop for 1/3 retail price in credit.

All comments welcome.

Cheers,

Mungobrush.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

What are the dimensions of this tank?

Odds are, none of your choices will work long term. You need a 3 foot length minimum for even the Yellow labs.


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## Mungobrush (Jan 10, 2009)

OK thanks, the dimensions are 2 ft by 1'3'' by 1' 4''. 92L or 24 gallons.

M


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## Mungobrush (Jan 10, 2009)

OK I took the Kingsizei and Maingano back to the shop.[/img]

I now have in the main tank

1 unsexed demasoni
1 male Kadango
2 female and 1 male electric yellows
2 bristlenose cat fish (1''each).
1 snail

and in the hospital tank three recovering fish:
1 Cobue
2 male elctectric yellows

Lets see how it goes from here.

Mungobrush.


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

I agree, I have a 75 gallon 4' x 18" x 20" (i think is the height, standard aquarium size, anyway) and of the 6 juvenile yellow labs 5 turned out to be male. quite a bit of fighting even in that size tank, and one male is now in a hospital tank due to his tail getting nipped almost off. Try some smaller dwarves if you want to keep a few, but other than a single or maybe double occupancy your odds are pretty slim. the maingano and kingsizei are only the most aggressive now. once other males get to the same size relative to their full grown size as those two are now, they will probably(most likely) be the same way. Yellow labs are supposed to be gentle, but tell that to my dominant male. I also have a 4" rusty who is a pugnacious little b*st*rd and they are also generally considered a "nice" fish.

It really looks like you want that kadango, and I can understand, they are gorgeous males with pretty flashy females, but at the size they go to, i wouldn't even want to keep him in the tank you have now even alone for long, unless it was a hospital tank for the guy. He's still fairly small, but he'll be almost half the tank length at full grown.

Intead of trading in for 1/3 credit, you could try the trading post here. you can make an ad or search for other peoples wanted ads, and you can refine your search to your area as well. You may even find someone willing to trade or a used tank for sale. Impulse buys can be costly when dealing with a LFS, so that might be a better option for you.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I don't even think you can keep the Yellow labs in this size tank. Basically, it's only big enough for one of the cichlids that you have...And that's no fun, for you or the fish.


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

Sorry, i was not typing clearly in my previous post. When I said I agree in my earlier post I was referring to cichlidaholic's position, I was not agreeing with your modified stock list. I still think it's too many for that tank. your options are pretty numbered with that size tank


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I'd suggest taking the fish back, and getting a pair of Neolamprologus brichardi or perhaps a pair of kribensis. You might need to get a few extra brichardi to get a pair, but usually most good shops can identify a male and female krib, and they don't seem too choosy.


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## algae eater (Jul 29, 2008)

Someone told me that a good rule of thumb to not get your tank over populated is one cichlid for every three gallons of water. I don't know if this is true or not. What do you guys think?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

algae eater said:


> Someone told me that a good rule of thumb to not get your tank over populated is one cichlid for every three gallons of water. I don't know if this is true or not. What do you guys think?


Not a good idea...Imagine a full grown Oscar in a 3 gallon tank! 

You plan a tank by the "territories" you have to offer. These territories are determined by the "footprint" of the tank. With most cichlids, the upper portion of the tank is totally insignificant. It's the bottom of the tank that they want. This is where they stake their claims and set up their territories.


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## Mungobrush (Jan 10, 2009)

I think you guys are right, The demasoni has now become dominant in the absence of the two I took back to the shop. He is chasing but not hurting the other 4 Labs and Kadango I have in there now. The hospital tank is supporting 1 Cobue and 1 male elctectric yellow.

In the short term I will take back the demasoni to the shop and see if fighting continues. In the longer term it looks like I will need some new fish.

Thanks for the comments, these guys are much more agressive than I originally thought. If I knew how I would post a picture of the tank here so you could see, any one know how to do that?

Cheers,
Mungobrush.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You need to upload a pic to a photo host, such as Photobucket. Then you copy and paste the img link (below the pic) into your post on here.


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## Mungobrush (Jan 10, 2009)

The latest now is I moved the demasoni in with the Cobue in the hospital tank, they seem OK, and I moved the remaining electric yellow back into the main tank with his friends and hey no fighting anywhere for now!

1 male Kadango 4''
2 female and 3 male electric yellows between 1.5'' and 2.5''
2 bristlenose cat fish (1''each).
1 snail

24 g tank and all is well for now at least

Cheers,
M


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

if it starts to get unruly again, and you want to buy time to upgrade your tank, you can try having no rocks or hiding spots at all. with no territory to guard there will be less aggression, but it is pretty boring and you don't really get any cichlid behaviour.


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