# a few ?ions



## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

hey ppl new here

ok i had my 40 gallon previously set up b4 it was up and runnin for about 3 months then i decided to change my rock out to slate that iu bought at my local outdoors store and i cleaned and soaked it really good then i changed out my old round rock for the slate and not removing any water while doing so but in about 2 weeks it killed all my live stock witch was about 8 african cichlids so i went to the pet store and the guy told me that it was making the water to 'hard' he told me to change the rock out to a different form of flat rock so i did it was kind of white with pink/red tint to it so i drained the tank and set it up wit that and let it set and cycle wit @ fish b4 i added new fish then in about 2 weeks again it killed off all my cichlids again???? and ideas wat might have caused this i have my 40 set up again wit river round rock and its doing fine but i just bought a 125g tank and wana use flat rock wat can i do to prepair my tank from killin the fish again


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Unless they did some testing we don't know about, First step would be to change LFS. Second step would be to get a test of the water. Owning a test kit will pay in the long run as it is the only way to get a real answer on what is going on in your tank. Very unlikely the rocks made the water hard enough to kill African cichlids. Likely a coincidence. For a novice fish keeper, I recommend getting the 5-in-1 test strips. They may not be totally true for precise measurements but they are simple to use and avoid a lot of the mistakes new folks make. When you know what your PH, GH, KH and ammonia are doing, you can begin to sort out what is killing your fish. Right now it's like shooting in the dark.


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

well i have a api fresh water test kit and i had tested the ph ammonia nitrate and nitrite and the ph wat a little low but that was it it was reading about a 7.6 that was the only thing that was off


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't think it was the rocks either. How did you cycle your tank?

I read a post in another forum that ammonia in the 40G is between 2ppm and 3ppm. It seems more likely the ammonia (and nitrite?) is what killed your fish.


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

no no no it wasnt the ammonia this tank has been set uo 4 differnet times this is the forth i didnt have any amonia problems the past 3


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Sorry but I would say ammonia is far more likely to kill than PH off by a small amount. Whether you had ammonia in past tanks isn't really relevant as each tank is different each time it is set up. Bottom line is if you have ammonia , that is a major place to start and then deal with lesser problems like PH if necessary. Likely the fish would adapt to PH but they cannot adapt to ammonia nearly as well.


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

No when I had the fish die the ammonia die I keep a close check on all my nitrates nitrites ammonia and ph in all my tanks I never had a prob wit the ammonia in them tanks wit the rock killin off my fish everything was fine in that tank


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

Ok and also if it was the ammonia were did it come from the first time I changed out the rock I never removed any water and I was very careful about not moving the substrate very much ?? And the tank was set up for like 2 months b4 I decided to switch out the rocks to slate?? I hope this helps understand wat I'm sayin alittle better ?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Ammonia is a waste product of the fish.

In an established tank (with a colony of established beneficial bacteria growing in the filter) some of the bacteria eat the ammonia and produce nitrite. Other bacteria in your colony eat the nitrite and produce nitrate. Establishing the bacteria colony is called cycling your tank. Nitrate is removed by doing water changes.

Maybe when the tank was set up before your beneficial bacteria grew without you being aware of it and the fish did not appear to be impacted.

If you remove fish between changing the tank set-up, the bacteria can starve and die. Or if you let the filter or substrate dry out or even clean it too vigorously. Then you have to cycle again.

Cycling the tank (growing the bacteria) takes about 6 weeks.


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

But I never removed the fish when I re arainged my tank and I was testin the water and everything thing was fine so that's y I don't understand ??


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I am not sure we understand either, but when you get an ammonia spike, it is because you have more waste than the bacteria can process. So either there was suddenly a lot of extra ammonia for some reason (tripled the fish in the tank?) or your beneficial bacteria died off for some reason (some meds kill bacteria).

Now, you can cycle again, add bacteria from another established tank, or add a bacteria product like Dr. Tim's One and Only.


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

Ok just to let yall know that this setup is no longer running but I just wanted to get some answers and also cuz I wana use slate in my tank I'm about to purchase

Soo... There wasn't a spike in any thing on this setup the only thing that my tests were reading was a low ph level. And the fish when from eating normal and acting normal to being dead in the tank the next morning and I never any any extra fish nothing so I don't know wat caused this I wana figure it out b4 I use slate again and kill off all my stock again


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Slate is inert, so unless it was contaminated with something, you need to look for another cause for the deaths.

So one day your readings were pH=7.2, ammonia=0, nitrite=0 and nitrate=15ppm. Fish are eating and healthy. You add slate. Within 12 hours the fish are dead. After the fish are dead the reading are still pH=7.2, ammonia=0, nitrite=0 and nitrate=15ppm. Is that right?


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

Yea but I added the slate everything was fine for about 3 weeks then within 24 hours they all died off all my tests were good the hole time I do my test atleast 2 times a week and everything was always fine?


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

How did you cycle the tank to begin with?


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

I let the tank sit runin wit 2 fish in it for about a month and I didn't add any new fish untill my ammonia and nitrate levels leveled out


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

And then how many did you add? And what happened on the day before all your fish died?


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

i slowly added 7 more over a 3 week period this was b4 i put the slate in the tank....

and the day b4 my fish died everythng was normal they were swiming normal acting normal eatin normal everything was normal


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Sounds like you cycled correctly, but it is very possible that your bacteria could not catch up with the bioload of the new fish. Sorry that all the questions we have asked have been about cycling, but that is where the majority of problems come from.

If it wiped out all the fish that fast I think its possible the slate could have been contaminated. All it would take is someone spraying pesticide or herbicide.

Just to completely rule out water quality issues can you tell us what your water change schedule was like?

Hope we can at least give you an idea of what happened.


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

Well I don't think that many fisf in that time period could have made the bio load be off ?? But idk and it would be really hard for 2 differnt sets of rock to be contaminaed when I throughy wash my rocks ??? Yes this did happen twice. And I useally try to do atleast 2 30 percent water changes a week about every 3 days ?


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Did the two sets of rock come from the same place?

Yeah, I agree that it does not look like ammonia is the culprit.


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

And the all fish were in the tank for about 6 to 8 weeks b4 I decided to change the rock so that wouldn't have anything to do wit the fish diein


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

No the black slate I used come from the creek in my back yard and the other flat rock come from our local quary


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## our40 (Sep 6, 2010)

any conclusions?? yet


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