# UGJ question



## gre (Mar 12, 2007)

I am kicking around the idea of putting a UGJ system in my 72 gal bow. How many jets would you recommend and can you tell me the difference of a closed loop and a open loop setup. thanks


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## LowCel (Apr 6, 2004)

I went with a non-closed loop on the ugj in mine, I can't compare it to a closed loop style since I have never tried one. I am very happy with mine though. In a 72 I would go with six to eight jets.

With all that said, I did plumb it into a closed loop system. It is not part of my filtration system at all, water goes from tank, to pump, back to tank.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

My preference is one jet per powerhead. As short and close to the powerhead as possible. You get maximum flow per watt. Plus it is easier to aim the flow horizontally just above the substrate, which seems to work best.

The idea of a closed loop is to make the outflow from multiple jets more equal, and maybe a little more efficient since pressure is coming from both directions in the piping. Larger diameter pipe, and flexible tubing to reduce pressure loss in sharp bends might help too.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

Mcdaphnia said:


> My preference is one jet per powerhead. As short and close to the powerhead as possible. You get maximum flow per watt. Plus it is easier to aim the flow horizontally just above the substrate, which seems to work best.
> 
> The idea of a closed loop is to make the outflow from multiple jets more equal, and maybe a little more efficient since pressure is coming from both directions in the piping. Larger diameter pipe, and flexible tubing to reduce pressure loss in sharp bends might help too.


I agree 100% with the idea of one smaller jet to pump ratio. I also agree 100% with the idea of implementing a horizontal jet. Actually, I think this is similar to my probably non original idea of ASJ (Above Substrate Jets). I proposed it once a while back but it never caught on, haha. Bear with me and I'll try it again.

If you do a search on UGJ you will find a few posts explaining some of the fundamentals flaws about UGJ. In my opinion the design that is commonly used is fundamentally flawed.

I think the most basic alternative to UGJ is to use a powerhead or submerged pump strategically placed in your tank, with the output of the pump providing your water flow directly. To take it one step further, you can add a custom output on the pump. This allows you to physically detach the pump placement from the jet placement. You can customize the placement of the "jet" while the pump can be hidden. Using this approach you can use a few pumps, each with one (maybe two) outputs strategically placed along the back of your tank. The jets are placed above the substrate, not in it, with the water flow directed across the substrate.

The advantages to this are better flow manipulation, easier redesign of the jets, and minimized visual impact.


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## planenut007 (Mar 21, 2009)

I like the idea of "above gravel jets" I have 4-5 old power heads for ugf"s, thx for idea


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## DanDee (Mar 7, 2008)

I have two closed loop UGJ systems that are a mirror image of each other in my 180g...and just love them. They each have a QuietOne 4000 pump running thru 5 jets. It is a challenge to get all the jets crimped equally to keep the flow from each the same. Also getting each jet pointed where you want them can be irritating...but once you get it right...You have more movement of water with less pumps. I disagree with the idea of one jet to one pump...I do not want to hide 8-10 pumps in my tank!
My $.02
Dan


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

DanDee said:


> .....I do not want to hide 8-10 pumps in my tank!
> My $.02
> Dan


 Hey! I paid more for those pumps than for my electric blue dempseys, so I should want to show them off too, right! :wink: Actually because of the increased efficiency, one large powerhead with one jet will probably do an entire tank more effectively than 8-10 separate smaller jet nozzles. One in a 520 and one in a 250 gallon tank was enough to keep detritus off my substrate. I have one pump in each of two 75's and a 90. They do very well for all but the 24" plus pleco. But that pleco produces more than a cup of "string" every day.


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## LowCel (Apr 6, 2004)

I have around 22 or 24 jets in my ugj system and they are powered by a reeflo blackfin 3600 running in a closed loop system. This setup works awesome and I am very happy with it. It provides plenty of flow to keep waste from setting but not so much that it blows the fish all over the place. On top of that I don't have any pumps in the tank and no wires in the tank so everything looks pretty clean.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

LowCel said:


> I have around 22 or 24 jets in my ugj system and they are powered by a reeflo blackfin 3600 running in a closed loop system. This setup works awesome and I am very happy with it. It provides plenty of flow to keep waste from setting but not so much that it blows the fish all over the place. On top of that I don't have any pumps in the tank and no wires in the tank so everything looks pretty clean.


Everything looks clean...except for the 22 jets. :wink:

You can still use an external pump in an ASJ system. I think the point you are getting rid of the jets and replacing them with more efficient outputs. As well as placing more intelligently in the tank. Most tanks are long and thin. So you don't need a lot of flow to move front to back, but rather side to side, and bottom to top. So placing the jets along the back of the tank makes a lot of sense. Especially if you have plants/rockwork/background that can hide both the pump and the pump output.

Also I would not make an ASJ with the same number of jets as an UGJ, but rather with the same number of pumps. So if you have an UGJ with 2 pumps and 6 jets, I would not make an ASJ with 6 pumps and 6 jets, but rather 2 pumps and 2 jets. Or if you have an UGJ with a large external pump and 22 jets, I would do the external pump with 3-4 jets. Something like that.


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## LowCel (Apr 6, 2004)

Actually now that I have added more sand the jets are barely visible except for where a couple of the fish have moved some sand.

Here it is after the fish did some remodeling with the sand


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

Adding more sand will help, but most people don't use and don't want a deep sandbed. I had a 2" sandbed and found it to be more of a nuisance then anything else, and have been taking it out a little at a time. The deeper the sane longer it takes to clean out. I found that a lot of waste gets trapped in the substrate when it is too deep.


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## LowCel (Apr 6, 2004)

I shouldn't have too much of a problem with that, the ugj system doesn't allow much waste to settle. On top of that the fish constantly rearrange the sand. Every couple of days I reach in there and smooth it out just so I can see how they will choose to redecorate it. It's a cheap form of entertainment for me and it gives them something to do so they don't have as much time to try to kill each other.


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## PPaulin (Apr 12, 2009)

Hey, Just received the pump Rio 32 hyper flow. Needed a lil advice on the setup. I have been playing with the Pvc like a puzzle for the past 2 weeks and its time to start the project and cycle this tank. I have a few questions  first I have an 80 gallon 4ft tank. filter Fx5 I want movement and the added filtration.

1. How many jets with this pump?
2. Closed or open Pvc?
3. How should I make the filter. Pvc or alter the Marine land ug pre filter?
4. The power head came with a pre filter should i just pack with more sponge filter?

Thanks to all who took the time to read,Leave advise or direct me...


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