# All Cichlids Keep Dying - Water Quality Seems Okay - HELP.



## Hendrix_88 (Jul 24, 2013)

I posted last month about troubles in my 55. I had ALL (10-12) of my cichlids die off in the span of 2 weeks. 3 Chinese algae eaters seemed unaffected. Consensus both here and at the LFS was that my tap water had lots of ammonia - apparently lots of folks in my area (Round Rock, TX) have been having problems in the last 6 months and all of my 50% water changes were just making things worse.

So I let the tank cycle for the last 2.5 weeks (with the intention of buying DI water from the LFS moving forward) with only the algae eaters remaining and did a water check at the LFS yesterday. No ammonia and everything looked good.

I purchased 2 juvenile Salousi and watched them for 5 hours until 10pm last night. They seemed fine. Woke up this morning and both are dead.

I'm both depressed and baffled by what's been happening in my tank. I'm really excited about kicking off a Salousi/Rusty tank, but I just can't seem to pinpoint the fatal problems. Besides water quality could there be something else going on? Am I left with draining the entire tank and starting fresh?

Any help would be appreciated. This tank has been set up for the past 8 years and nothing like this has happened before.

Thanks,
Mike


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Do you even have a test kit containing tests for ammonia, ph, nitrites and nitrates? If so, what readings are you getting? You mention time for cycling, how do you even know that the tank is cycled. Im not trying to be smart, but with all the deaths you NEED to know at least the basic parameters, equipment, substrate, decorations, etc for us to help you.

If you have that info in another thread, please link it here so we know whats going on.


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## NJmomie (Jan 17, 2013)

That's a terrible thing to happen. Did your LFS only test for ammonia? 
I would purchase a test kit (the liquid one) and test the tank water yourself. At a minimum, test kit should include tests for nitrate, nitrite, ammonia and PH. Once you do that, post your results on the forum and everyone can help you. If you suspect that your tap water is a problem, test that too.


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## Hendrix_88 (Jul 24, 2013)

Previous Thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=265522


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## Hendrix_88 (Jul 24, 2013)

Okay, I'm back with some numbers and some theories. I bought a full test kit and confirmed my readings with a trip to the LFS.
PH: 8.2
AM: 0
NI: 0
NA: 30-40

LFS seems to think it's some kind of bacteria or contagion that the Chinese algae eaters might be carrying - since they are hardier, it's not killing them off. I tested my tap water, and the ammonia level was only .25, so I don't think that's been the culprit these last few months. After all, Prime should take care of that with regular water changes, shouldn't it? The Nitrates are a little high, but they didn't think that was the cause of this round of deaths.

Their suggestion was to remove the 2 algae eaters, and just run the tank empty for 3-4 weeks, hopefully removing any bacteria/parasites/etc from the water and then start fresh with a few fish.

Sound reasonable, or are there other factors that could be contributing to all the deaths?

Tank setup: 55 gallon, crushed coral, texas holey rock, eheim 2013, rena filstar xp1


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## Lupine (Mar 20, 2013)

IMHO overnight is too fast for a pathogen to kill all your fish. I wonder if you have some metal or other toxicity that is not being tested for. Maybe try running a PolyFilter. It changes color based on what it adsorbs. Or you could have your tap water tested for metals etc. The fact that other people with the same water supply have been having probs is a red flag to me. Sounds like there may be a contaminant in your source water. If you can afford it, I would suggest having your water tested professionally for contaminants.

You mentioned that your tap water which you've been doing water changes with has 0.25ppm ammonia and that you are adding Prime. But are you aging your water? (Letting it sit overnight with an airstone in it?) This will help remove gases and give the Prime time to work. Also, how long are you taking to acclimate your new fish? If your water has a different pH from the water they came out of they could be suffering from pH shock.

If you have been properly acclimating the fish and they die overnight anyway, my suggestion would be to run some Purigen or Fluval Nitrate Remover media to get your Nitrates down. Then add a "test fish"- one you don't mind losing, i.e. go buy something for $1 at the LFS or better yet use a fish from one of your existing tanks as you would then know it was disease-free. Acclimate it slowly. If it dies overnight, run a PolyFilter for a few days at least. If it changes color you have your answer, but that would bee too easy of course. If the fish still die after having run a Polyfilter for a week, have the water tested for contaminants. Unless this isn't the only tank you have. If you are doing the same water changes in other tanks with no problems, I would tear down this tank, clean it thoroughly with a 10% bleach solution and start over. You may have given the answer to my questions in your previous thread, if so, ignore them. It's late and I'm sleepy. Just had a few thoughts no one else had mentioned. Also, if you really think it's a pathogen, do a total water change and add a UV sterilizer for a few weeks before adding a fish.


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## Hendrix_88 (Jul 24, 2013)

Given the fact that I am going to remove the 2 remaining algae eaters and have an empty tank, I'm leaning towards just starting over. Things have been going downhill for a long time now, so maybe it's time to wipe the slate clean. I've got nothing but time and I want to get things right. Plus, I'd like to do a couple things like painting the back of the tank and staining the cabinet to match the new canopy that I just built.

Assuming that's the plan I go with, do I wash out _everything_ with the bleach solution? I mean, sand, rocks, filter media, hoses, etc? Or should I replace the sand all together.

And moving forward, should I only use DI water from the LFS instead of tap water? I'm willing to make that commitment if it will help eliminate any problems in the long run.

Again, thanks for any help and suggestions.

Mike


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## Lupine (Mar 20, 2013)

I would buy new sand due to the difficulty of rinsing and drying it out thoroughly. And new filter media too, or at least bleach it too. (Not knowing what kind of media you're using, buying new may be better.) And as for the rest (hoses etc), bleach or replace ALL of it. I'd get new hoses, they're cheap enough especially at the home repair chain stores.

As for the water if it is RO/DI and not just RO, you can't use that straight for freshwater fish. The pH will be so unstable you can't even rely on testing it, and it will have no minerals etc. There are products out there like "RO Right" and others that replace minerals, but I have no experience with using these with straight RO/DI. I mix RO/DI with my well water to lower the pH for angel fish, but african cichlids like the hard well water I use straight for them. Also, you will likely be better off buying your own RO unit than relying on being able to get to the LFS when you need to. Cheaper in the long run too. Good luck with your start over.


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