# P. Salousi stocking inquiry



## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

I am currently ready to stock a 55 gallon 48x14x23 in tank. Pool filter sand substrate. Lava rock rockscape. Eheim 2250 canister filter and HOB Aqua Tech 30-60. Ammonia 0 ppm, Nitrite 0 ppm, Nitrate 20. pH approx 8.0.

Most of my cichlid experience is with Frontosa in my father's 600 gallon beast of an acrylic tank.

I have had experience myself with Mbuna cichlids in a 90 gallon vertically oriented tank that contained M. estherae, Acei, Rusties and yellow labs. For reasons I cannot explain, it was a prolific breeding tank with what appeared to be minimal aggression. Unfortunately they were in an integrated aquarium in a large built-in unit and when I sold the house; the new owners wished it to stay.

I am trying to arrange a 3 species 4 color Mbuna list.

I am set on P. Salousi with an ultimate mature goal of 1M:5F giving me 2 color schemes. I am pretty sure that I. sprengerae will fit the bill for the 3rd color and be compatible in a 1M:3F adult configuration. The question is which variety can lend a 4th color to the tank and fit with the previously mentioned fishes?

P. socolofi (Snow white)
M. estherae (although tame in my previous tank; come with a bit of aggression)
Additional recommendations?

I will be purchasing all of the fish as juveniles.

Any suggestions would be appreciated and thanks to all the frequent contributors to this forum.

Regards,
C.


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## kyboy (Oct 30, 2009)

Of the 2, the snow white socolofi is the best choice.
M.esterae females are orange & wouldn't be enough contrast with the saulosi females
Could also sub. Met.callainos pearl white for the snow whites.


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## pancakeloach (Feb 4, 2008)

I found M. estherae too aggressive for saulosi in a 55 - my male saulosi wouldn't fully color up until I got rid of them. YMMV, I might've just ended up with a particularly bad fish personality matchup.

I'm curious myself about what people will recommend, I've thought of adding some white to my saulosi/acei 75gal. The acei add blue, which you won't get much of with one male saulosi, but I know the usual recommendation for acei is a slightly wider tank than a standard 55.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

L. Perlmutt would be my choice as another dwarf with different color and interest with the females looking different and not at all unattractive.


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## CraGunner (Feb 12, 2016)

That's crazy, but I asked nearly the exact same question on the forum today. I'm stocking a 75g and the two species I've already picked out where Saulosi and Rusty, and I asked the gentleman here in the forum for help on the other two species. The two we settled on were: Elongatus Usisya and White Lab. Go check out that thread if you want to see the full discussion. But the consensus was those two species would do well and look great with the Saulosi and Rusties.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks for the replies. CraGunner; I checked out your thread. Added white labs to the mix. I think I will shy away from Elongatus in general; perhaps due to size. GoofBoy, I can't argue with your assessment, I think L. perlmutt might fit nicely. Possibilities:

L. perlmutt
P. socolofi Snow white.
White Lab

Any possibility I can keep the 3 species motif going while attempting to add a second P. Salousi male? Breakdown as follows
P. Salousi 2M:8F. 
I. sprengerae 1M:3F 
Mystery species (L. perlmutt, P. socolofi, White lab, etc) 1M:3F.

That is 18 total fish for a standard 55 gallon. That seems heavy. Any thoughts?

Regards,
C.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

No,..18 total fish in a 55G is a good solid number in my opinion. That's roughly the # in both of my 55Gs,..always lots of activity but doesn't seem over-crowded. I do over filter both tanks..and do regular water changes,..no issues with bioload etc


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

CraGunner said:


> That's crazy, but I asked nearly the exact same question on the forum today. I'm stocking a 75g and the two species I've already picked out where Saulosi and Rusty, and I asked the gentleman here in the forum for help on the other two species. The two we settled on were: Elongatus Usisya and White Lab. Go check out that thread if you want to see the full discussion. But the consensus was those two species would do well and look great with the Saulosi and Rusties.


LOL, Thanks CraGunner. I am a guy, but have not been referred to as a "Gentleman" before. ) 8)

Wakejefe:
In a 55gal, I would have Saulosi and Red Zebras together. KyBoy is right. The female Saulosi do look very much like M. estherae. With a 55gal, I would not have Socolofi and M. estherae together, they both grow to over 5-7" long. One or the other, but not both.

Are you planning on having both P. socolofi Snow white and White Lab? Two species of white fishes?


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Tanker3:

Not two white fishes. Only one of the following. P. socolofi or white labs or Met. callalainos or L. perlmutt. I am not set on white but I am just looking for greatest in color variety within a 3 species framework.

Regards, 
C.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Wakejefe said:


> I am set on P. Salousi with an ultimate mature goal of 1M:5F giving me 2 color schemes. I am pretty sure that sprengerae will fit the bill for the 3rd color and be compatible in a 1M:3F adult configuration. The question is which variety can lend a 4th color to the tank and fit with the previously mentioned fishes?


OH, OK. If you are set with these 2, I would so with the White Lab, smaller and more peaceful the Albino Socolofi.

The last choice is up to you. 
1) With White Labs, and Yellow Female Saulosi I would think that a "Darker" fish is needed (but of course I have Saulosi and Permutts in the same tank).
2) The Met. callalainos probably will breed with the White Labs giving you "Unwanted Hybrids".
3) Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos?? Both the males and females are Dark Blue.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks for the input tanker. I am ultimately going to have three species; not 4. The "4" was in reference to the colors of the fishes; P. salousi providing 2 of them.

There is no question that it would be quite a "light" colored tank if it there were many yellow (female P. salousi) and white (the white fishes previously mentioned). I honestly have not seen many white fish outside of LFS displays and they are all together there. I very much like Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos. I have never kept them but I understand they can be quite a handful.

Regards,
C.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Can anyone see an overt issue with:

2M:8F P. salousi
1M:4F I. sprengarae
1M:4F L. perlmutt

Thanks again for the input

Regards,
C.


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## kyboy (Oct 30, 2009)

It's better to have 3 males /8 females than 2 males with the saulosi.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

kyboy said:


> It's better to have 3 males /8 females than 2 males with the saulosi.


I agree, never get 2 males of any Mbuna. It will become just one soon. With three they cannot figure out who to pick on.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Noted. You reckon I should then reduce the Rusty group and L. perlmutt group to 1:3? P. salousi 3M: 8 F= 11 total. 4 Rusties and 4 L. perlmutt=8 fishes. Total 19. Sound reasonable?

Regards.
C.


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## kyboy (Oct 30, 2009)

It's just a general suggestion to have either 1 malie or 3.
I wouldn't aim to reduce the others to 1m/3f.
All you can really do is stock them & see how it shakes out, so just keep an eye on things as they mature.
You'll probably get more males with the saulosi as groups seem to be male heavy anyway, but they are pretty tolerant of other 
Males.


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## kyboy (Oct 30, 2009)

... & see what the fish will allow.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

I'd do 8 juvies of the Rusties and Perlmutt and 15 of the Saulosi if that is where you want to end up.

I remove dominant males as they become a problem and have had great success with the sub males coloring up just as well while ending up with lower levels of overall aggression.

Your results may vary.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Appreciate all the input. Stocking game plan for juveniles:

15 P. salousi
8 I. sprengerae
8 L. perlmutt

Pending tank dynamics aiming for

3M: 8F P. salousi
1M: 3-4F I. sprengerae
1M: 3-4F L. perlmutt

Any additional recs would be appreciated. Thanks to all those that have weighed in

Regards,
C.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd shoot for 15 individuals and 1m:4f of each. If you want multiple males of the saulosi I'd drop a species and do 3m:9f saulosi and 1m:4f of the 2nd species.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

DJRansome said:


> I'd shoot for 15 individuals and 1m:4f of each. If you want multiple males of the saulosi I'd drop a species and do 3m:9f saulosi and 1m:4f of the 2nd species.


That makes sense. We will see how things develop. I am planning on placing my order soon. L. perlmutt will be the limiting factor. I was going to go with one vendor and they don't have them. A fluid situation though. I will keep the forum updated. Thanks again for the insight. If anyone has another creative stocking solution; I am all ears.

Regards,
C.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

I hate to revive a sleeping thread; but I have another possible combo (for the same setup 55 gallon) I would like to ask about. After all, researching these species if perhaps the most fun part. There is also an auction I am going to attend this weekend I want to maintain flexibility. What does every make of:

1M:4F Cynotilapia sp. hara Galleriya reef 
1M:4F I. sprengerae
1M:4F Yellow labs

Thanks again for your input.

Regards,
C.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Looks good to me.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Rusties and labs and acei are tough but not aggressive at all. That is probably why tank was peaceful.

m/f ration is mostly an issue of a smaller tank.

you can have a lot of males but you need cover. If all you want is the male don't get a bunch of mediocre females that are going to breed! Just get the male and skip the babies! So long as you can be somewhat sure the male is not going to crossbreed.

Socolofi are cool fish bur they are very aggressive and crossbreed like crazy, so they are not a great choice for what you seem to want.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you again for the input. My order has been placed and despite the title of the thread I have gone with my second stocking option. I have recently become quite interested in Cynotilapia sp. Hara. 
Cynotilapia sp. Hara G. Reef
Labidochromis caeruleus 
Iodotropheus sprengerae

I went with an online breeder and sponsor of the site. I will post some unboxing pictures and tank pictures when the time is right. I am thinking of making an offer on a craigslist special 46 bow front so I can get my P. salousi species fix.

Regards,
C.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Wakejefe said:


> Thank you again for the input. My order has been placed and despite the title of the thread I have gone with my second stocking option. I have recently become quite interested in Cynotilapia sp. Hara.
> Cynotilapia sp. Hara G. Reef
> Labidochromis caeruleus
> Iodotropheus sprengerae
> ...


1) IMO, good choice on the stock. I have Haras and they are great. I just wish they get a little lighter in the blue.
2) A 46bow with Saulosi would be great too. That was "My initial" idea, but got a bigger tank for my Saulsoi instead. IMO, the Saulosi are the most "Personable" of all the Mbunas I have, from Fry to adults.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks Tanker. I have to make sure the 46 gallon fits the bill price wise. Often folks on CL ask some pretty substantial prices.

Hoping those C. sp. hara light up the way I want; either way, should be fun.

DJ can you comment on whether I am allowed to post unboxing type photos here?

Regards,
C.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes you can post photos. Don't purposely highlight vendor names.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks DJ. I will keep it G rated as it related to vendors.

Regards,
C.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Order arrived. Getting the photos together.

5 Rusties (One DOA) who appear to be asserting themselves 
8 Cynotilapia sp "Hara"
7 Yellow labs

I have two unexpected additions from the fish auction this weekend. 2 juvie P. socolofi (albino). So we are at 22 juvies total in a 4ft 55 gallon. The online breeder provided some quite robust yellow labs that are not what I would call a "Juvie".

I have a 10 gallon hospital tank and a 36 gallon acrylic grow out at the ready. Anyone worried about the albinos at the moment?

Regards,
C.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Wakejefe said:


> Order arrived. Getting the photos together.
> 
> 5 Rusties (One DOA) who appear to be asserting themselves
> 8 Cynotilapia sp "Hara"
> ...


Socolofi are a "Little" bigger and meaner, but are not "out-right nasty", so should be OK. Albinos may make them a little more mellow (Maybe).


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Nice Hara




Yellow lab


What do you make of the bars on this one?


Purple on the Rusty is quite nice


I am going to post a pic of a Rusty that I am not too pleased with. A bit beat up. I know that shipping isn't easy on the fish.

Regards,
C.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

This guys fins are a bit worse for the wear. I am not losing sleep over it but is ragged indeed.


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

Another shot from tonight

Regards,
C.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Your Haras look small. How big are they?


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## Wakejefe (Feb 22, 2016)

They probably look small because they are small. All between 1.5 in and 2 in except one; which is probably just over an inch.

Regards,
C.


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