# Inherited 210 gallon tank full of cichlids!



## ldb1988 (Dec 29, 2011)

Hi! So, I have very little knowledge of caring for cichlids and as the result of a breakup I have aquired this beautiful set up. I'm posting in here because I didn't see a beginner's category. My original plan was to sell it, but over the past few months I've grown to love it and I couldn't imagine selling it anymore. I've been doing a lot of research and so far things are going good. I cleaned the tank by myself for the first time 2 weeks ago and no one has died yet (I learned by watching the ex owner clean it numerous times).

Now, I do have a few issues. The water seems to be much cloudier than when the old owner cared for it. I bought a testing kit (old owner never tested water) and so far I've only tested the pH and the ammonia. I don't think either of these have to do with cloudiness though? The ammonia was 0. pH was 7.6, which I've read is kind of low for my cichlids which I believe are mostly Lake Malawi. I think one reason it appears cloudier is because my dad replaced one of the light bulbs with a standard household flouresent light - not good I'm assuming?

My next issue, I believe some of the fish may be american cichlids. Their fins are tattered which leads me to believe they are getting picked on because they're less aggressive than the Malawi ones. I want to confirm which ones are so I can find them a safer home.

I also have a problem with one of the internal pumps (I think that's what it's called) constantly slidding down the side of the tank...I feel like this is a stupid question, but it never did this before.

I also have one cichlid with a sunken belly. He still eats, and he has had it for a couple months now. Also - I only feed everyone once a day, and they gobble it up in way under a minute but they still seem to always have hanging feces, should I change to every other day? I feed floating pellets and flakes.

Here are pics to show the difference between now and when it was first put in my house in February. My rock arrangement feels pretty embarassing comapred to the previous owner's.

February









Now

















Here's a close up of just a few of the fish


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I'm sure that other members will jump in, but the first thing that you should do is a 50% water change. Get yourself a Python type water changing hose and a dechlorinator, such as Prime. 50% water changes once a week will do wonders. Otherwise your parameters seem fine.

The hanging feces sounds like bloat from an incorrect diet. Make sure that you are using a vegetable based food designed for mbuna.

What type of filtration is being used?

Mike


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## ldb1988 (Dec 29, 2011)

I did about a 35-40% water change when I cleaned it 2 weeks ago, because someone told me not to do too much, but from what I've read it should be ok? I had no idea it should be changed so often. After cleaning & putting in the new water I put in Aquasafe & aquarium salt according to the package directions, should I add these everytime I do a 50% change?

The food I've been feeding them is the tetra's brand for cichlids...probably not good, because it's from Walmart haha.

The filter system...so terrible I don't know the name. Overflow? it flows into a box hanging over the back of the tank that flows down into a large box underneathe the tank with bio cubes in it which somehow flows back up into the tank. Man I feel like an idiot. Thank you for your help!!


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

Sounds like you have a sump for filtration, which is actually very good.

You need to add the Aquasafe every time that you do a water change. Make sure that you dose enough for the total volume of the tank. I'm not sure what type of aquarium salt that you are using.

African cichlids are very aggressive, and you mitigate the aggressiveness with a high stocking density. A high stocking density requires big water changes. I do weekly water changes of 40%, and my stocking density is pretty low.

Also, I would pick up some quality pellet food that is designed for African cichlids.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

ldb1988 said:


> Hi! So, I have very little knowledge of caring for cichlids and as the result of a breakup I have aquired this beautiful set up. I'm posting in here because I didn't see a beginner's category. My original plan was to sell it, but over the past few months I've grown to love it and I couldn't imagine selling it anymore. I've been doing a lot of research and so far things are going good. I cleaned the tank by myself for the first time 2 weeks ago and no one has died yet (I learned by watching the ex owner clean it numerous times).


First-off, welcome - congrats on acquiring the new tank. Just for clarification purposes I am assuming that you remained in the house and thus retained possession of the tank? - Reason I am asking is because I wondering if the water has been changed via moving the tank.

You said 2 weeks? The tank will need a weekly schedule depending on stocking but not to be concerned - many people have left tanks for 2 weeks but we need to know what the nitrates are sitting at now.



ldb1988 said:


> Now, I do have a few issues. The water seems to be much cloudier than when the old owner cared for it. I bought a testing kit (old owner never tested water) and so far I've only tested the pH and the ammonia. I don't think either of these have to do with cloudiness though? The ammonia was 0. pH was 7.6, which I've read is kind of low for my cichlids which I believe are mostly Lake Malawi. I think one reason it appears cloudier is because my dad replaced one of the light bulbs with a standard household flouresent light - not good I'm assuming?


Yes!~ Good work - you made the right move in testing the water as this will allow us to debug any issues you have with your tank, however, you are missing a lot of parameters, we need:

Ammonia
Nitrites
Nitrates

This will help us understand if the cycling is still progressing well and what possible issues you maybe having and as for the cloudy water, this could be a good indicator that something is not right and that the bacteria in your tank maybe dying but before we go down this stress let's A. make sure you have a proper cleaning schedule B. we know your water parameters.



ldb1988 said:


> My next issue, I believe some of the fish may be american cichlids. Their fins are tattered which leads me to believe they are getting picked on because they're less aggressive than the Malawi ones. I want to confirm which ones are so I can find them a safer home.


Ah! Good idea - but before we go down this route let's have some pictures to confirm.



ldb1988 said:


> I also have a problem with one of the internal pumps (I think that's what it's called) constantly slidding down the side of the tank...I feel like this is a stupid question, but it never did this before.


I am going to need a picture to fully understand the issue.



ldb1988 said:


> I also have one cichlid with a sunken belly. He still eats, and he has had it for a couple months now. Also - I only feed everyone once a day, and they gobble it up in way under a minute but they still seem to always have hanging feces, should I change to every other day? I feed floating pellets and flakes.


With African's it is important to know that a lot of common species have long intestines and this can be problematic when eating high protein foods or too much.

This can cause "bloat" is the feces white in color?

Also in regards to the pictures - are the rocks supported by anything or is this purely standing by being stacked - I am always concerned when I see load barring rocks leaning against the tank glass.

-- I hope I have helped a little


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## ldb1988 (Dec 29, 2011)

Is the Aquasafe considered a dechlorinater? Hopefully with the more frequent water changes they will calm down a bit, they definitely have been a little crazy ever since their previous owner left. I'll get some better food, I've heard good things about NLS. Thanks again


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

Aquasafe is a dechlorinator. I currently use liquid Prime, but they have a new dry Prime that you mix with water and gives you more bang for your buck.

I'm not currently keeping African Cichlids, but I'm a big fan of New Life Spectrum for my current inhabitants. Other members can weigh in.

Glad to help.


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## ldb1988 (Dec 29, 2011)

Thank you Tim! Yes you are correct, the tank was emptied & moved into my house in February, the last time the previous owner changed the water was late Sepetember. I know this is horrible! I was terrified of unplugging everything/convinced someone else would do it for me/etc/excuses, and I finally did a water change & vacumming 2 weeks ago. Now that I know how to do it and how to get the filter primed I have no problem doing it weekly. It's so good to know it needs to be weekly...the previous owner did it about once a month, if that.

I got the nitrate tests in the kit but I was in a rush yesterday so I plan on checking that when I get home, but now I'm thinking I should do the water change first? Off to Home Depot to get a longer siphon, carrying 5 gal bucket after 5 gal bucket out of the house is not easy for a 115 lb chick. The ammonia tested 0.

The rocks on the back of the tank are actually siliconed onto the tank itself. I love that look, I can't stand fake background pictures. The rocks I have arranged in the middle of the tank are not leaning against any sides, just stacked on top of eachother. That is one thing I changed from the previous arrangement, as I wasn't comfortable with the ones leaning on the sides either.

The poop is orangish/brown, kind of the same color of the food. Ok, need different food and a longer siphon stat! Will take pics after work of the fish up close to identify. I'm beginning to wonder how these fish have lived so long in such crappy conditions. It was set up at another house for 2 years with no water testing/cheap food/monthly to bi-monthly water changes. Thank you!


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

ldb1988 said:


> Thank you Tim! Yes you are correct, the tank was emptied & moved into my house in February, the last time the previous owner changed the water was late Sepetember. I know this is horrible! I was terrified of unplugging everything/convinced someone else would do it for me/etc/excuses, and I finally did a water change & vacumming 2 weeks ago. Now that I know how to do it and how to get the filter primed I have no problem doing it weekly. It's so good to know it needs to be weekly...the previous owner did it about once a month, if that.


Your nitrates are probably pretty high! leaning into the toxic side of things, which could disrupt cell repair and other - might explain why you are noticing a lot of torn fins.



ldb1988 said:


> I got the nitrate tests in the kit but I was in a rush yesterday so I plan on checking that when I get home, but now I'm thinking I should do the water change first? Off to Home Depot to get a longer siphon, carrying 5 gal bucket after 5 gal bucket out of the house is not easy for a 115 lb chick. The ammonia tested 0.


Time to invest in a python 

As for the water change - let's see how it is measuring, I am guessing you will hit the max but let's set a baseline here.



ldb1988 said:


> The rocks on the back of the tank are actually siliconed onto the tank itself. I love that look, I can't stand fake background pictures. The rocks I have arranged in the middle of the tank are not leaning against any sides, just stacked on top of eachother. That is one thing I changed from the previous arrangement, as I wasn't comfortable with the ones leaning on the sides either.


I am not a huge fan of load barring against the tank itself but with the silicone properly done the edge of the rock will not be pressed against - just a burst tank can cause so much damage.



ldb1988 said:


> The poop is orangish/brown, kind of the same color of the food. Ok, need different food and a longer siphon stat! Will take pics after work of the fish up close to identify. I'm beginning to wonder how these fish have lived so long in such crappy conditions. It was set up at another house for 2 years with no water testing/cheap food/monthly to bi-monthly water changes. Thank you!


Well before we go changing the food we really need to know what fish you have, what food you are feeding and how much.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I think there are a lot of assumptions being made which made be correct BUT maybe not. Hanging feces can be a simple case of too much food. Fish do not eat because they are hungry. They simply eat when they find food as in nature overeating is not a problem. When they eat too much It has to come out the other end. It is often the color of the food as it is simply food that is not digested well. I suggest going very slowly before making major changes. The fish are alive, they will stay alive if there are not major changes made too quickly. Fish can adapt even to poor water if it is done slowly. Test first before deciding what is needed. If there should happen to be a high level of toxin of some sort, a major water change can make it become deadly to the point of killing fish. To a novice, I suggest using the 5-in1 Jungle test strips that can be had from big box stores like Wal-mart. They will get the basic info you need without several possible ways to mess up the test. Later if you want/need more precise measurements, you can go to more dificult testing. Get the basics and go for the pro stuff later. Over time, I've found fish do quite well with a varied diet of cheap food. Overfeeding is the far greater danger than poor quality food.


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## ldb1988 (Dec 29, 2011)

Ok, thanks guys. I will test the water first. I only feed once a day, a pretty small palm's worth of pellets and a pinch of flakes. They always finish it all in like 20 seconds. Maybe if I try every other day?

Also it's hard to tell in the pics but the rocks were siliconed on individually, with small spaces inbetween them. There's usually tons of babies hiding in these cracks. But yeah...210 gallons of water in my house would not be fun.

I'll be back, thanks


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

PfunMo said:


> I think there are a lot of assumptions being made which made be correct BUT maybe not.


I do not even think we are at the phase of making assumptions yet! We do not have a baseline as guidance - - still working on this.


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## Dogtanian (Jan 27, 2011)

ldb1988 said:


> Ok, thanks guys. I will test the water first. I only feed once a day, a pretty small palm's worth of pellets and a pinch of flakes. They always finish it all in like 20 seconds. Maybe if I try every other day?


Certainly doesn't sound like you're overfeeding. Some people write about feeding your Cichlids 2-3 times per day to try and suppress aggression, this is not entirely practical and most people seem to feed once per day (probably not less than 30-45 seconds) and fast once per week. This chap has some videos that may prove interesting to you, including one on feeding principles:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cichlidvideo/videos


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Sure is a lot of substrate. Did you add some from the feb to now pic?


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## ldb1988 (Dec 29, 2011)

Thanks for the videos.

I didn't add any substrate but now that you mention it I can see how it looks like a lot more. I guess I didn't level it out at all.

I tried to take pictures of the fish...it's not working out. Here's the nitrite/nitrate


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

If your nitrate is as high as it looks you should be doing a water change as we speak.


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## Dogtanian (Jan 27, 2011)

ldb1988 said:


> Thanks for the videos.
> 
> I didn't add any substrate but now that you mention it I can see how it looks like a lot more. I guess I didn't level it out at all.
> 
> I tried to take pictures of the fish...it's not working out. Here's the nitrite/nitrate


Nitrates do look high. What number does that shade of red equate to for real? Sometimes difficult to tell in a photo. I think it's generally recommended that 40ppm should be a maximum but the lower the better.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Nitrates are high. Do a large water change to bring them down.


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## ldb1988 (Dec 29, 2011)

50%? add Aquasafe & salt too? am I supposed to add that before/after/during putting in water?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

ldb1988 said:


> 50%? add Aquasafe & salt too? am I supposed to add that before/after/during putting in water?


Why are you adding salt? Do you currently have buffers and salts in the tank?

Need to know if you have been adding salts/buffers before knowing how much water to change in regards to re-adding or not...salts.

Are you testing your kH/gH/pH on a regular basis? If not...then I would not be messing with adding salts/buffers. If your water requires you to do so then you need to get a kH/gH test kit. If not then I would not be adding anything to your water.


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## ldb1988 (Dec 29, 2011)

I thought I was supposed to with water changes. I have only added it once, 2 weeks ago. Very inexperienced. I have only tested pH and ammonia. So just Aquasafe I'm assuming?


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

Just aqua safe. Stable conditions are more important than proper parameters.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

This is looking great! Cycle is intact, not that I had a reason it wouldn't be, so at this stage, let's do a water change 50% is what I would recommend and then measure the nitrates tomorrow.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

ldb1988 said:


> I thought I was supposed to with water changes. I have only added it once, 2 weeks ago. Very inexperienced. I have only tested pH and ammonia. So just Aquasafe I'm assuming?


Yes...just aquasafe...or prime(another dechlorinator) and do at least 50% water change. I would wait 24hrs and test the nitrates again. You want your nitrates as low as possible.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

While you are getting some good advise, it is always better to work problems of this sort slowly and carefully. People tend to somewtimes mention worscases items and treat things as a fire drill. The fish are a live and you have not mentioned any sick fish. They are likely to stay alive IF they don't get a major shock from changing water conditions too quickly. Large water changes are good to lower nitrate levels but not if it is done with water that is not treated correctly. I advise large water changes only when you know what what and how to treat the new water. A large water change is not going to help if the PH/KH and GH are way off from what they are used to now. It has taken three to six months for them to get into this condition and it will be far better to let them live with it for a few more days rather than kill them with an unwise water change. 
A nice shower is great on a hot day, but not if the shower water is 180 degrees! The fish feel the same way about their water. Go slow and find out what is needed first. You need to change water but the water needs the proper treatment and you do have plenty of time to find out before doing something which may kill the fish.


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## Dart032 (Dec 9, 2011)

I agree with doing 10% water changes every other day untill the nitrates are at an appropriate level in order to not shock the fish. Plus a 50% water change in a 200g tank is pretty dramatic and hard to keep the tank at the same exact temp. Sweet tank though glad you decided not to sell


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that the tank was originally in your area and uses the same water source as was previously used?
Try to take things slowly.
For now, 10% daily water changes with dechlorinator. Test pH, GH and KH for both tank and tap water, particularly if the tank is in a new water source region.
Welcome to Cichlid-Forum


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi,

Some people make a good point, changing 50% of your water on such a tank can have a dramatic effect if not monitored, especially if the tank is not stable. When I had a huge piranha tank I actually bought a large Rubbermaid bin, filled it with water, added a air pump + heater.

This made doing changes much easier.


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## IamAquaMan (Oct 28, 2011)

Some excellent advice on here.

I just wanted to add that I agree with not doing a very big water change immediately. A friend of mine had a tank that he let sit and sit without doing anything to the tank and he was about to get rid of it. He was left with one fish (an unknown peacock) and his water parameters were terrible but the fish seemed fine. I asked if I could put his peacock in my parents angel tank and try to save him. The parameters on my parents tank were great. The temps were actually close to being the same. He died in less than 48 hours. He was so used to the terrible conditions, that the switch to prestine conditions must've shocked him.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Nitrate is a toxian I am not sure this is something the fish naturally becomes reliant on in some fashion death occurs when removed, I think the danger is wild PH swings, tempature swings etc etc.

It is like carbon monoxide poisoning, slow, may not show signs of poison for some time - I doubt the fish will just adjust.

I think fish can live in large tolerances.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> Nitrate is a toxian I am not sure this is something the fish naturally becomes reliant on in some fashion death occurs when removed, I think the danger is wild PH swings, tempature swings etc etc.
> 
> It is like carbon monoxide poisoning, slow, may not show signs of poison for some time - I doubt the fish will just adjust.
> 
> I think fish can live in large tolerances.


I agree....taking nitrates from a high number to somewhat livable is not a bad thing. Doing a 50% water change is ok as long as the water going back in is close to the water coming out. If he has been adding salts/buffers it might be a better idea to do smaller water changes without adding anything back in except the dechlorinator until the fish acclimate. Then once the tap water or water being put back in is the same as the water being removed minus nitrates, phosphates, etc...then you should be ok.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Let's do a bit of fact checking.
The former owner was treating the water at changes. I would assume they had a reason to do that. Right or wrong they were treating the water. Likely it was treated to a level quite different than the tap water. 
Now along comes a novice asking for help. They do not know the Water from the tap nor the tank water. When you suggest getting the nitrate down by doing large water changes, you are suggesting they radically change the nitrate and that might seem reasonable. But what do you think you are doing with the other water qualities (PH,GH,KH) if they add large amounts of water without knowing how or why the tap water needs to be treated?

You are suggesting simple solutions to a problem that is best handled with caution AFTER finding out what is needed.

When the fire alarm rings, one should not automatically jump out the window! You've got time to find out if there is a real fire and what floor you are on. I suggest the same prudence here. Wait, find out what needs to be done and then act. There is no need to run until you know which direction you want to go.

The fish are alive, it is best to try to keep them alive. Find out the important information on the tank water and tap water, find out if and how much treatment is needed and then begin to change things slowly.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

PfunMo said:


> Let's do a bit of fact checking.
> The former owner was treating the water at changes. I would assume they had a reason to do that. Right or wrong they were treating the water. Likely it was treated to a level quite different than the tap water.
> Now along comes a novice asking for help. They do not know the Water from the tap nor the tank water. When you suggest getting the nitrate down by doing large water changes, you are suggesting they radically change the nitrate and that might seem reasonable. But what do you think you are doing with the other water qualities (PH,GH,KH) if they add large amounts of water without knowing how or why the tap water needs to be treated?
> 
> ...


I agree which is why I said this earlier in the thread:



13razorbackfan said:


> ldb1988 said:
> 
> 
> > 50%? add Aquasafe & salt too? am I supposed to add that before/after/during putting in water?
> ...


His reply was this:



ldb1988 said:


> *I thought I was supposed to with water changes. I have only added it once, 2 weeks ago*. Very inexperienced. I have only tested pH and ammonia. So just Aquasafe I'm assuming?


He needs to know his kH/pH before adding salts and buffers. Adding those without knowing the kH/pH is much worse than not adding them and having a stable chemistry.

First thing I would do....get a kH/pH test kit and test. If the tap water is within a tolerable reason then I would start doing 10-20% water changes every day or every other day to bring those high nitrates down without adding anything back to the water.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Right! Test first! Find the problem before jumping into massive water changes that may make the situation worse. If the 50% water changes are made and the new water is wrong, it may or may not kill fish right away but it will certainly make it harder to get to the correct solution. Water changing is good if it is a crisis but often bad if the fish are well and we don't know what we need.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

PfunMo said:


> Right! Test first! Find the problem before jumping into massive water changes that may make the situation worse. If the 50% water changes are made and the new water is wrong, it may or may not kill fish right away but it will certainly make it harder to get to the correct solution. Water changing is good if it is a crisis but often bad if the fish are well and we don't know what we need.


I agree...I am curious if the OP has bought a test kit and ran the tests. If so I wonder what the reading were.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

PfunMo said:


> Right! Test first! Find the problem before jumping into massive water changes that may make the situation worse. If the 50% water changes are made and the new water is wrong, it may or may not kill fish right away but it will certainly make it harder to get to the correct solution. Water changing is good if it is a crisis but often bad if the fish are well and we don't know what we need.


I agree...I am curious if the OP has bought a test kit and ran the tests. If so I wonder what the readings showed.


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