# Albino Socolfi seems to have been in a scuffle



## Aquadiva (Sep 11, 2008)

Hi all, I am new here and just a little initimidated about posting here... I apologize in advance if I forget to disclose any info you might need in helping me... hope you all go easy on the newbies... :wink:

I have a 55 gallon with 2 albino socolofi, 2 melanochromis parallelus, 2 yellow labs, 2 pseudotropheus socolofi, 2 red zebras, 2 Yellow Top Mbambas, 2 yellow aratus. I know cichlids aren't really pairing fish but pretty much, we started out with pairs for the kids and we just kept going with it. They are all relatively juvies (I think our biggest one might be about 1.5") so we don't know the sex of any of them... well, we do suspect that the 2 Yellow Top Mbambas are male and female as we've witnessed the 'love dance' on several occasions, I noticed something sticking out of one of the vents of one of them (after some extensive research and reading with this wonderful site fearing it was fungus, ich, or a prolapsed rectum, I'm concluding it may have been her breeding tube since it disappeared after a day or so) and she now appears to be holding (tries to find solace in one of the small rocks and wasn't eating). She's now happily resting in our 'maternity ward' - a separate 10 gallon tank.

One of our albino socolofi was at one point the most dominant one in the tank, she did all the chasing and hardly anyone dared to chase her (we call it a 'she' since my daughter named it Thumbelina 8). But since putting in 2 new structures into the tank to give them more hiding places and territories to claim, it's been quite a harmonious ecosystem. No one seemed to be the big bully of the tank and even the skittish, weaker ones were showing more confidence. All was well up until the Mbamba apparently started mating. My daughter spotted the female Yellow Top nipping at Thumbelina and I later noticed a pink patch on the albino that seemed beneath the skin surface behind the side fin. Thumbelina swims normal, still eats like a champ, and still shows the others not to get too cocky around her. A couple of days later, it's gotten much darker. It appears to be internal in which I mean her skin doesn't appear to be broken, there are no open wounds or broken scales. I'm wondering should I be worried that this is more than just a bite wound? Perhaps a bacterial infection?? If so, what would you recommend for our little scrapper?

I'm attempting to post a picture of Thumbelina. If this doesn't seem to provide enough detail, please let me know and I'll try to take a better one. :thumb:










Some stats on the tank:
pH = 8.0
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = curiously 1.0 (all previous tests have been at 0 but I had just done a 30% water change the day before)
Nitrate = 5.0

temp = 82 degrees
water changes on a weekly basis

Sorry this was such a novel. I just wanted to give the background history of what we got going on here. We just want to do what we can for our daughter's beloved fish. My other daughter lost 2 of her's several months before on the SAME DAY... we don't want to have to go thru that again if we can help it!! :?

Thanks in advance! I'm learning so much from all of you!!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Thanks for being so thorough, and welcome to CF!

Unfortunately, you're going to have alot of problems with this stock list. Since children are involved - as well as the poor fish  , I would suggest making some stock changes as soon as possible.

You're right, they aren't pairing fish. They are harem breeders, and should be kept as such, with one male of a species to multiple females. This disperses the males aggression amongst the females, keeping the one female from becoming overly stressed and harrassed. So, this is your first problem...

You have to many species for this tank size, and some of the fish that you have are unsuitable for this tank size under any conditions...I would narrow it down to 3-4 species max (preferably 3) and build on the group sizes of those species. You definitely want to get rid of the auratus - your children will be horrified once they mature and turn the tank into a battlefield - they are one of the most aggressive mbuna available, and I wouldn't hold out much hope for them working in a 55G tank. They also shouldn't be kept with any other Melanochromis species.

Would you like to get into breeding? (Kids should enjoy that aspect of the hobby...) If so, you've got some crossbreeding issues in the tank. Yellow labs canl crossbreed with red zebras, the two Melanochromis species can cross, and the two socolofi can cross...They are even more likely to do so being kept in pairs, but the risk will remain no matter what you do if you house these species together. If you don't plan on distributing any fry or any of them ever leaving your tanks, it's not a problem, but you still have too many species and you still increase the risks for severe aggression inside the tank with the mixes that you have.

This applies to the potential "Mbamba" fry you may have soon, as well. There is no way to be certain that they are pure without witnessing the spawn, and keep in mind that a spawn can go on for hours! You might try to get a pic of the one you think is holding...Reclusive behaviour and not eating are also indicative of diseases brought on by stress, so you want to make sure you're right.

I'm concerned over the nitrite reading. It should be zero, so water changes may be in order.

How long has this tank been set up?

At 1.5 inches, your fish are just starting to mature. (If the Mbamba is this small, she may not be holding, all the more reason to make sure she's not sick...) As they become fully sexually mature, the dynamics in your tank are going to change considerably. The aggression will become worse, and the tank could turn into a nightmare. It will be easier to straighten out the stocking now, while the fish are young, and that is what I would strongly suggest you do.

It could mean the difference between enjoying the hobby and giving up on the hobby, for both you and your children! :thumb:

Thumbelina is probably just sporting a "bruise" under the scales. As long as she is behaving normally, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Keep the water pristine, and you could even add some Melafix if you like.

I don't think this is the last injury you'll see, though...Unless you make some changes...

HTH

And I hope I haven't intimidated you! :wink:


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## Aquadiva (Sep 11, 2008)

Thank you so much, Cichlidaholic, I was hoping you'd answer since I've read many of your replies to other posts! :thumb:

I was afraid though that I would be told this stock list was a major DON'T - we have become pretty attached to the fish we have, especially since the kids have laid claim to certain pairs. My ideal resolution would be to divide them into separate tanks but as we are just starting out, I'm pretty sure the hubby is not going to be keen on setting up more tanks just now (even tho I am doing all the maintenance work :? ) I hope to be able to convince him tho b/c I know he loves all the fish just as much as me and the kids do. 

From the stock list I provided in my OP, do you have any recommendations as to who to split up with who?

I'm also inlcuding some photos of the Yellow Top that might be holding. If anyone can confirm from these pictures, let me know!









This is a BEFORE picture of the two yellow tops... the female is up top. I am pretty sure there was no crossbreeding. These two have been inseparable since I first spotted them in the LFS. And for those few days when I noticed what could have been the female's breeding tube sticking out, the male was always around her and they were shimmying quite a bit in several areas of the tank! Almost all the photos I have ever taken of her, he's always right there beside her.









Here's a close-up which really makes me think she's holding.










Please excuse the lack of clarity of some of these photos and the ghastly decorations in the *maternity ward*  .


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

Its better to hurt the childrens feelinga bit now by rehoming the fish then to see the looks of horor on their face when they see their favorite fish nose down in the corner looking like he's been chewed on by the cat.

I do not know how many children are involved here, but one thing I have seen work is give them a choice of one species each from a completely compatable list (all species work in any combination) and help them create a breeding group of their chosen species. Kind of like giving them their own team to root for.

My neighbor did this with her three kids and it has worked out great. Their main tank is a 75g in the living room and each child had a 10g maternity/grow out tank in their room. Part of the game is if they can help the babies grow up (learning proper fish keeping a long the way) and they get to keep any money the babies sell for.

Main tank is beautiul (yellow labs, blue socolofi and pearl callainos ). 1 mlae and 4 females of each.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

She is holding, so that's good in the respect that we don't suspect illness! With only one male and many other fish that would be more aggressive than this male if "push comes to shove", you can't be sure of the parentage until they are grown. (Beautiful male Mbamba, by the way!)

What a great idea about the "teams" for the kids, MalawiLover! I gave up on good kid ideas when mine hit college! :lol:

I would take it back to 3 species. Of what you have right now, my picks would be the Yellow labs, regular socolofi, and the Mbamba. I would want about 6 of each species. It would make a great looking tank colour wise, and there would be little to no risk of hybridization if you get your male/female ratios right.

I'd get rid of both Melanochromis species altogether, and save yourself the heartache in this tank.

With those 3 species, you'd have alot of action and 3 different aggression levels. You'd enjoy the Yellow labs much more in a larger group, and that male Mbamba would really turn on the colours with more girls.

If you really _need_ to keep a Melanochromis, I'd go with the parallelus rather than the auratus...You'd stand a better chance achieving some semblance of peace in the tank. I wouldn't keep more than 4 species in that size tank, preferably just the 3. You could still go with the "overstocking to reduce aggression" theory and have 6 of each of the 4 species, but you'll probably have to weed out some extra males down the line somewhere.

Did you check those nitrites again? (I would - you may need to do some extra water changes...)


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## Aquadiva (Sep 11, 2008)

Well, first thank you for that great idea, MalawiLover. It's going to be the hardest sell to my oldest son (he's 7 and extremely attached to his fish - which, of course, are the Auratus *sigh* isn't that how it always is??? :roll:

There are 4 kids involved here (7, 4, 3, and 2 - yeah, it's quite the zoo here) and I am hoping that perhaps with the Mbamba expecting, it may help to distract them if we need to do some *relocations*! They were really captivated by the notion that she was holding eggs and it has sort of became a biology project for them so I am really pleased to hear that she IS in fact holding. :dancing:

Thanks for the recommendations of which fish to keep. Definitely keeping the Mbambas - they're my favorite of the bunch! Nitrite is still 1.0 so I'll keep doing water changes starting tonight until it's back to 0.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

7, 4, 3 and 2??? How did you find time to write your post??? :lol:

Go with 3 species "teams" for the 3 older ones and put the little one in charge of the fry!

I think it's great that you're allowing the kids to be involved in the hobby. It could be a life long fascination for one of them, and it sounds like you might be hooked, as well!


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