# had some tank issues - stocking question



## jkop (Jul 29, 2007)

Hi,

I have Jewel Trigon 350 Tank (350L / 95 US Gal)

I have had some problems with my tank recently, I had a power cut and lost a few of my bigger fish which I think left a power vacuum and my large frontosa I believe has picked off my other two larger fish 

So I want to get my stocking levels right and balance restored!

I currently have:

1 x very large frontosa!

all juve's/sub-adults:

6 x Labidochromis caeruleus (yellow labs)
5 x Iodotropheus sprengerae (rusty cichlids)
4 x Aulonocara "Dragons Blood"
1 x Pseudotropheus demasoni
1 pair x Sciaenochromis fryeri

2 x Pseudotropheus crabro

Should I trade my two Pseudotropheus crabro for demasoni (and get some more)

How many should I get?

I also thought I should get a couple more female Aulonocara "Dragons Blood" to make the ratio right (I think i have 2m / 2f - but it's hard to tell due to size)

I'd like to have them breed, so don't want any species that will inter-breed (which Iguess the demasoni and crabo's might as they are both Pseudotropheus right?)

Any help gratefully recieved!


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

I would take the frontosa out. Either put him in another tank and get some frontosa buddies for him, or trade him in. From what I know, Frontosa like to be with their own kind, and that's about it.

With the other fish, it really depends on what you want. If you want the dems then I would trade the crabro in and get more dems. You want at least 12 dems. And if you did that then you would probably need to take your Aulonocara out of the tank and either trade them in, or set up a new tank. Peacocks don't work with most mbuna.

However, if you really like the peacocks then you could keep them and the labs and the rusties and get rid of everything else in the tank. And add another peacock group.

That's my thoughts anyway! Good luck!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I would also remove the frontosa. If not, any new fish you add may be expensive snacks. 

Frontosa should be kept with other frontosa, and you will need a 6 ft tank for them, ideally.

All mouthbrooders can crossbreed, if not kept in proper sized species groups with adequate male/female ratios. With demasoni and crabro, if kept in proper breeding groups, the risk would be very, very minimal, if any. As they are now, the risk exists.


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## jkop (Jul 29, 2007)

thanks - I want to keep the peacocks really. I might get rid of the demasoni and crabro then.

What peackocks would add some blue to the tank, that would work well?

Also do I have enough labs/rusty/dragon blood? Should I increase their numbers/ratio and then add a new peacock group?

or

If I set up another tank for the frontosa - would he need other frontosa his size or could I put smaller ones in? he is like 20cm / 7-8"

the frontosa has always been mild mannered and good with smaller fish it was just with some much larger male fish there was a problem, so I assume he'd be ok.


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## copasetic (Nov 26, 2007)

No other peacocks groups would work with the drangons blood's. rusty's, labs and 1 peacock group will work fine. increase females to all for proper ratio's.. What do you want from this tank, breeding? or just a show tank?


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

Not sure why you couldn't add another peacock group, although I am very inexperienced so you should definitely listen to others with more experience over me! LOL

You do know that with most peacocks, the females are very drab (brown) and look alike, right? So if you keep more than one group of peacocks, you could end up with hybrids. Although your dragons blood are already hybrids and I'm not sure what the girls look like for them. And I would actually be a tad worried about keeping 2 male dragon bloods anyway...maybe trade one of the males for another female if you want to keep groups.

For the blue color: Aulonocara koningsi is a Blue Regal (I have one and it is awesome!). But keep in mind, only the males show color.

If I were you I would consider keeping the yellow labs, rusties, 1 Male Dragons Blood, and a few other male peacocks (all different). That would give you a lot of color and make a nice 
looking tank.

Oh and with the Frontosa - I would just make sure that whatever size fronts you put in with him are not small enough to fit in his mouth. That's the problem with keeping a front in a tank with other fish - eventually he will get very large and he will eat the other fish.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

a82allison said:


> If I were you I would consider keeping the yellow labs, rusties, 1 Male Dragons Blood, and a few other male peacocks (all different). That would give you a lot of color and make a nice looking tank.


That's an excellent suggestion!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The reason why adding more than one peacock group to a tank is discouraged is that (a) they will crossbreed, and (b) if you later decide to separate the peacock groups so you can collect fry or sell them, you will not be able to differentiate the females.


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## jkop (Jul 29, 2007)

ok thanks, some good ideas, going to take my time to decide on stocking as I want to do it right!

I'm interested obviously in it looking nice but I'd also like to get some fry.

What about some socolofi's? I gather they aren't aggressive? would a group of those work with my dragon's blood?

The female dragons blood aren't that drab, they are stilll quite small so it's hard to sex for sure but I think I have two males - one is an obvious male as he is the most coloured up but the females look like sub domonent males anyway.

can I sex my rusty's by venting the same way as labs? I don't want to stress the fish just to sex them but I want to get the balance right or if I take some pics is it easier to tell than with labs?

Thanks again for all the input


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

Socolofis can be aggressive. The only mbuna's usually recommended with peacocks are labs, aceis, and sometimes rusties. So maybe look into some acei.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd say labs are the safest. But Dragon's Blood are hybrids, so who knows how aggressive they will be??? Socolofi are indeed aggressive, I had them in my tank for a year. I did not remove them due to aggression problems, and I like them very much.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Rusties will need to be pretty good size before you can sex them by venting. In all reality, most fish have to be close to spawning size/age before venting is 100% accurate.

The good news is that Rusties are very prolific and tend to spawn earlier and at a smaller size than most mbuna! Females should be holding by 2 inches, if not before.


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## jkop (Jul 29, 2007)

thanks - so how do you all get the right ratio of male/female?

Is it my purchasing a group then taking back the excess males and getting more?

So it terms of number of fish for the tank how does this sound?

currently
5 rusty
6 labs
4 dragons blood

change to

9 rusty (6f 3m)
9 labs (6f 3m)
7 dragons blood (7f 2m)
+ group TBC 9 - 12 fish?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

"TBC"???

It's early and I'm still on my first cup of coffee, so you'll have to help me out with that one! :lol:

The other 3 species sound fine. Don't worry so much about the sex ratios on the mbuna. The tank is large enough and they are passive enough that you might get away with not having the perfect ratio. Should problems arise later, I just remove what I need to remove.


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

jkop said:


> thanks - so how do you all get the right ratio of male/female?
> 
> Is it my purchasing a group then taking back the excess males and getting more?


That's what I am doing. I make my best guess while at the fish store and then as they are growing up, if I realize I have a female - back to the LFS she will go - or into another tank whenever I talk hubby into another tank. :lol:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

TBC = total body count? Just guessing, LOL.


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## jkop (Jul 29, 2007)

lol sorry!

TBC = To Be Confirmed :lol: 

so quantity wise should I make the groups of a similar size or will a larger group of the new fish be ok? May be acei, I'm still doing my research and deciding!!

is the total amount of fish I listed enough or ok?

thanks again all for putting up with my questions! I want to get it right, so better to ask too much now then buy the wrong thing :thumb:


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If you've got the filtration to handle the fish load and maintain the tank well, you should be okay. I would really try to be careful what I picked for that 4th species, though, and I'd probably go with a bit smaller groups of the yellow labs and Rusties if you plan to add a 4th species. But, those are good numbers to start with as juveniles or subadults, and will allow you more trading room for their maturity. :thumb:


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## jkop (Jul 29, 2007)

thanks - maybe I won't add many more labs and rusties then.

I went out window shopping today for species ideas - I didn't fall in love with the acei - they weren't bad though - maybe it was just because they are juve's.

Any other suggestions on a blue species (ideally bright blue!  ) to add? I really like demonsi's which is a shame


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

How about a small group of Metriaclima callainos (the fish in my avatar)? 1 male and 3 females would be ideal...


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## jkop (Jul 29, 2007)

I really like Cobalt Zebra's but I thought Zebra's were a no no (i.e too agressive?)


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Well, they _are_ more aggressive than your other mbuna species, but housed properly in a large enough tank, they aren't usually a problem.

I would be just as concerned about the Dragon's blood peacocks as far as aggression goes. It's hard to anticipate how a hybrid is going to behave.

As far as passive mbuna, if you don't care for the acei, any other blue mbuna will be of a more aggressive nature.

The key is to keeping them in the right group sizes and male/female ratios. :thumb:


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## jkop (Jul 29, 2007)

thanks for the reply. The Dragon's Bloods are currently very peaceful - but I guess who knows when they are adults right?

won't zebra's cross breed with my labs?

What about a group of Dophins? Cyrtocara moorii? would they work ok?


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

jkop said:


> thanks for the reply. The Dragon's Bloods are currently very peaceful - but I guess who knows when they are adults right?
> 
> What about a group of Dophins? Cyrtocara moorii? would they work ok?


I'll leave it for others to answer, because I'm not sure whether the mooriis would work or not. But, Ijust wanted to say that I love the blue dolphins! I think they are my favorite fish so far.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the tank?

Cobalts aren't likely to breed with your yellow labs, unless you don't have males and females of both species...In that case, any mouth brooder can crossbreed with any other mouthbrooder.


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## jkop (Jul 29, 2007)

ah ok - is that red zebras that cross breed then? I just assumed it was all Zebra's.

dimensions (corner tank)

http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/trigon.htm?cat=23

Measurements: 123 x 87 x 73 cm


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

C. moorii grow too large for this tank.

After seeing the measurements, I would only go with the 3 original species, or if you do go with 4 species, narrow down the group sizes for all species.


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