# Isn't this illegal?



## Marconis (Feb 9, 2007)

I was in Pet Supplies getting food for my dog, and I walked over to the fish section. The fish at that store are always in **** condition,sadly. Today I noticed that some fish were dyed, they had hears on them and on the other side it said LOVE. It was atrocious. I didn't expect to see it in a chain store. They were labeled as Oranda Tattoo's, at $36.


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## exasperatus2002 (Jul 5, 2003)

nope but it should. fish have been getting tattoo'd for a long time starting with the "painted glassfish". They've now moved on with other fish.[/list]


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Ok, playing Devil's advocate for a bit...

What should be made illegal here?

Let's say I use a needle that is proportionally the same size as the ones used on dogs for perm. ID tagging or on humans... what's the difference between a heart and a code on dogs? Is it size of the tattoo?

Should the size of tattoos be regulated for animals? Is that what you are suggesting?


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## BlackShark11k (Feb 16, 2007)

Not illegal... sadly. Stupid process.


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## Marconis (Feb 9, 2007)

I almost said something to the manager about it being illegal. I would've felt stupid.

Still though, I suppose it should be illegal.


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

The really sad part is they will sell all of them!
So who is worse the jerk who does it or the ones that create the demand?!!! :x


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Hoosier Tank said:


> the ones that create the demand?!!! :x


 BINGO :thumb:


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## Marconis (Feb 9, 2007)

Number6 said:


> Hoosier Tank said:
> 
> 
> > the ones that create the demand?!!! :x
> ...


Agreed. So many businesses don't even care if they are hurting someone or something, as long as they are making money off of the things people want.


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## jordanroda (May 4, 2006)

Ugly fishes... :roll:


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I would put more blame on the person who profits off of the torture of an animal than the fool who bought it...

greed is uglier than ignorance...


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Just for fun ...



> Let's say I use a needle that is proportionally the same size as the ones used on dogs for perm. ID tagging or on humans... what's the difference between a heart and a code on dogs?


At least we have a good idea of how it feels on a dog, cat, or monkey as a mammal's skin is of course similiar to our own. We have no idea how it feels over scales. Could be much much worse on reptiles or fish. Of course, could be less too.

Still ugly though.


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## kingpoiuy (Jun 9, 2008)

Wow, that's sad. Never seen that myself but I bet they do sell like hotcakes. Imagine any young girl who sees a 'goldfish' with a heart on the side. I've never known one who wouldn't go nuts over it.

I imagine the process of doing this is not exactly humane. Just a guess but I bet a large majority of these fish don't survive the process and that contributes to the reason it's $35 for each fish.


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

So the reason that these fish are produced (and stocked) is that there is a market for them. There will ALWAYS be a market for stupid sh*t. ALWAYS.

Like it or not, a seafood market is a million times more brutal than a LFS that carries these fish.

Of these fish that are sold, I'd bet that 10 times more will perrish from poor care vs. any complications from being tatooed. At least SOME of these fish will get a decent life and die of natural causes.

If you don't like your job, imagine being some guy in Thailand spending 7 days a week, 12 hours a day tattoo-ing fish. "You're done with the goldfish, now get to work on the gouramis!!! Chop chop..."


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## kingpoiuy (Jun 9, 2008)

:lol: so true *dogofwar*


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

artemis1 said:


> Not illegal... sadly. Stupid process.


Some would say keeping fish in a box of water is cruel and unnatural. Would you join them in making it illegal? I come down on the side of freedom of choice and use the power of my wallet to effect change.


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## BlackShark11k (Feb 16, 2007)

iceblue said:


> artemis1 said:
> 
> 
> > Not illegal... sadly. Stupid process.
> ...


It is cruel to keep a fish in a box of water if the box isn't "big enough" :wink:

I think removing a fishes slime coating, injecting it with dye through a needle proportionally the size of a pencil, stressing the fish out greatly and making is live shorter, and have a weakened immune system, is, cruel.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

It is illegal in the UK. Sadly it is not illegal to import and sell em in the UK (but hopefully soon will be)


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

artemis1 said:


> It is cruel to keep a fish in a box of water if the box isn't "big enough" :wink:


Agreed 100%.



> I think removing a fishes slime coating, injecting it with dye through a needle proportionally the size of a pencil, stressing the fish out greatly and making is live shorter, and have a weakened immune system, is, cruel.


But fisherman will spend hours useing pointed treble hooks to fight a fish to the surface and then gaf them through the neck with a large hand hook to drag them onboard. I still would not stand in thier way to enjoy thier sport just because I found it offensive.


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

"It is illegal in the UK"

What is illegal in the UK? Tattooing fish?

Please - please! - send a newspaper clipping or some other evidence of this...


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

dogofwar said:


> "It is illegal in the UK"
> 
> What is illegal in the UK? Tattooing fish?
> 
> Please - please! - send a newspaper clipping or some other evidence of this...


http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... p?news=850


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Ask and you shall receive...


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## Izzydawg (Jan 4, 2008)

They do it to fruit tetras too, I've also seen it on parrot fish a LOT  
It was valentines day fish that said ...I love you on them and a heart on the other side :x


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks!


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## Basolisk (Oct 11, 2007)

:x


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## Afishionado (Jun 6, 2006)

There is an invisible class division between those of us who would buy such fish and those who wouldn't. You can cross that division, but in one direction only.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Afishionado said:


> There is an invisible class division between those of us who would buy such fish and those who wouldn't. You can cross that division, but in one direction only.


One can't repent?


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## Afishionado (Jun 6, 2006)

Sure, that's kinda what I meant. I just don't see anybody who's against buying such fish now ever changing their mind in the other direction. (not that deep a thought after all - sorry :lol: )


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Darkside said:


> dogofwar said:
> 
> 
> > "It is illegal in the UK"
> ...


Thanks Darkside thats a better eg than I could have found. Offical gov website on the animal welfare act (UK) is dead borring.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

:thumb:


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## 3569Ryan (Jul 8, 2008)

It's not that huge of an atrosity. They take peoples wisdom teeth, dock dogs ears and tails, pierce baby girl's ears, circumsize baby boys, put a ring in a bulls nose, cut birds wings, and there are are some others that I can't think of I'm sure. I certainly wouldn't buy one though.


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## All Out Tony (Dec 7, 2004)

All fish that we have in tanks are *Ornamental* fish.

Where does it stop? 
Are we going to have peta check if we have proper filtration, proper tank size per species?

If they had it the way they wanted we would not be able to keep fish in a box, they should be set free in the wild along with every other animal.

As humans we have alot more to be concerned about. 
Good education for our children, keep them safe from the perversions in the world and make sure we as humans have a good future.

I would want a bill to benefit us before I would be concered about the small portion of tattoo fish made to excite the fish industry.

Don't tell people that it is life threating for the fish because if that were the case they would not be sold.

People in fish industry just like any industry are there to make a profit .
If there were alot of loss these would not be sold...........

The best way is to educate people about the beauty and the wonders of keeping pure bred fish.


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

Couldn't agree more.

There's a market for "ornamental" fish.... and there's a market for "wild type" fish....and there's a market for fish (cichlids even) to eat...

And there are suppliers who meet the needs of all three markets.


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## slickvic277 (Aug 20, 2006)

tatooing a dog or a cat is for identifacation purpose and so an owner can reclame there pet if the pet has escaped.Really dogs and cats are not tatooed as much any more with the chip being more popular and easy to get updated when youre address phone number changes.Fish are a much more sensitive animals and I dont know how they get tattooed or is it a chemical thing?
One thing is for sure though,dogs and cats get marked buy responsible owners. fish get dyed and tatooed buy greedy breeders who dont care about the well being of another living creature.
I saw tanks full of "kissing fish" at bigals in PA that were dyed hot pink and then tatooed in dark red with heart shapes on one side and the word "luv'' on the other they were being sold as valentine fish.
Simply disgusting!Bigals lost some points with me after that.There store is always full and they have a great selection of fish for sale I didnt see the reason for having these fish in stock.


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

"fish get dyed and tatooed buy greedy breeders who dont care about the well being of another living creature"

...Or maybe breeders produce these fish because LFS request to stock them and consumers buy them (often at a premium)...

It's naive to think that there's no profit motive on the part of those who deal in fish other than those tatooed or dyed. It's a business!

Fish that have been tattoed or dyed often require extra care before, during, and after transport in order to be available for sale (i.e. not dead). The massive numbers of these fish for sale would demonstrate that they're receiving this care.

Reserve your outrage for the people who buy stupid sh*t, not at those who meet their demands!


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## Jonesboy75 (May 11, 2007)

I usually stay out of this type of discussion because tempers run high and nothing is ever accomplished other than to turn people against one another who would otherwise get along fine. It really bothers me, however, when people are so willing to want the government to step in and outlaw something simply because they don't agree with it. I'm sure there are a heck of a lot of things you do that other people don't agree with. What's going to keep them from going to the government to have your activities outlawed? Will your attitude change then? Fact is, as we speak, in the United States of America and all other western democracies, women are being forced into arranged marriages, teenage girls are being kidnapped and forced to become sex slaves, we're all being preyed upon by violent career criminals who are released time after time with no more than a slap on the wrist, etc., etc., etc., yet, reading some of the comments on here, one would believe that fish-dyeing is the greatest crime someone could ever commit.

Personally, I can't stand dyed fish. I think they look awful. I would certainly never own one. I would also try to dissuade anyone I knew who was considering purchasing one of these monstrosities. I would also never buy a blood parrot cichlid, flowerhorn, fancy goldfish, etc. for many of the same reasons I wouldn't by dyed fish. I prefer natural fish. OBs and albinos are about as unnatural as I get and both of these occur at least sporadically in nature. My main point is that going down the road of government intervention is a very slippery slope, especially when you have well-funded groups like peta trying to get ALL fishkeeping banned.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I completely agree we have bigger problems to deal withâ€¦ but this is a fish forum which makes topics of arranged marriage, sex slaves, etc way off topic, yet dying or tattooing fish is a topic very related to the focus of the forumâ€¦

It makes sense we would discuss this one while not discussing the others. This does not mean we are minimizing the importance of the other issuesâ€¦ weâ€™re just staying on topic for the platform we are using for the discussionâ€¦

I also completely agree that increasing government control is not the answer we are looking for. So should the police be able to get a search warrant based on the fact I have fish tanksâ€¦ just to make sure I donâ€™t have a tattooed or dyed fish?

I boldly believe the best situation is a liberal government protecting conservative people. I want my neighbor to not rape my wife because itâ€™s wrong to hurt peopleâ€¦ not because he is afraid of going to prisonâ€¦ I also believe that every convicted murder, rapist and child perv should be shot the day of his first conviction (no appeals). I also believe that people shouldnâ€™t tattoo or dye fishâ€¦

but the part about fish is the only part of that paragraph that is on topic for this forumâ€¦ which is why we have threads about it but donâ€™t have threads opposing more malicious crimesâ€¦

So in conclusionâ€¦ I do not think it should be illegal to tattoo or dye fishâ€¦ I do think it is immoral to tattoo or dye fishâ€¦ I do think it should be legal to smack the p!ss out of immoral peopleâ€¦


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

So to distill your comments *Toby_H* ... it shouldn't be illegal to sell/buy dyed, hybrid, tattoo'd fish ... BUT it should be legal to smack upside the head (repeatedly) people that buy/sell dyed, hybrid, tattoo'd fish.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

:thumb: Now were on the right track!


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## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn (Dec 26, 2005)

dwarfpike said:


> So to distill your comments *Toby_H* ... it shouldn't be illegal to sell/buy dyed, hybrid, tattoo'd fish ... BUT it should be legal to smack upside the head (repeatedly) people that buy/sell dyed, hybrid, tattoo'd fish.


most definitely, though that should also cover people who buy a RTC or dovii for a 10g. and then say oh they'll release it when it gets too big...


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

So we at Cichlid Forum wish to present a list to the United Nations... we do not wish to make this list of "crimes" punishable by law... we just want the right to smack people in the head for breaking them...

I volunteer to be a smacker!!! You guys start working on the UN approvalâ€¦

lolololololololol


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## slickvic277 (Aug 20, 2006)

Ha! Thats great I wanna be a smacker too!


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## statik (Aug 11, 2008)

So, Reading this inspired me to do research on this. Apparently they dont actually use a needle to do it. Its done with lasers. And they say that it only dyes the scales and doesnt go through the fish at all. The fish supposedly live normal lives after its done.

However, the page I found all of this info on says that it IS stressful to the fish.

I personally dont know if it should be legal but just like Bill Clinton said when asked about the legality of abortion. I dont believe in it but I also dont believe that I have the right to tell you you cant have one.

I personally just wont buy these fish\

Im ok with that.

edit - heres the link http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=850


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