# 90 Gallon New tank ready for fish, Suggestions ?



## fltekdiver

My 90 Gallon is ready for fish. I used API Quick Start , and in a day the test are saying it's ready for fish! I've used the Bio-Shpere Quick start on my 60 Gallon Salt Water set up last year, and had great success!

I'm new to Cichlids, and been in the SW side of the hobby for the past few years.

I'm leaning towards African / Peacock / Haps because from what I read, They are the easiest to maintain, and I really want colorful fish, I miss my SW tanks.

I have black Petco Sand with 1-1/2" bed, 40 Gallon DIY sump with 300 Micron MESH Socks so they don't clog easily, and Peaot Filter for the mechanical. Bio is 500 Bio Balls, 2QT of Marine Pure Bio Sphere's , and Chemical is 1/2 gallon Of Seachem Matrix underwater, with a 2" sponge in the last baffle going into the return area.

I still have some fake rocks coming in, and aquascaping to do, but the tank is ready for fish!

Would African / Peacock / Haps be good fish to start out with?

Do you guys order them online? Or goto your Local PetSmart or Petco or something?


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## DJRansome

I order online. Only the males are colorful, are you talking about an all-male tank? I would not say all-male is easiest to maintain, I find mixed gender tanks easier. Read the all-male article in the Cichlid-forum Library for pros, cons and suggestions.


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## fltekdiver

Any suggestions online?

Doesn't have to be all male, but I wanted colorful fish, but easy.

I read Mumba are harder, hence I choose African or Peacocks


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## DJRansome

I think mbuna are easier, and you can have mixed gender with all colorful fish. Look at reviews for online feedback or PM me.

An easy, colorful mbuna tank. Four species 1m:4f of each:
1m:4f Labidochromis caeruleus
1m:4f Pseudotropheus acei Ngara
1m:4f Cynotilapia sp hara
1m:4f Iodotropheus sprengerae

Buy 8 unsexed juveniles of each. Rehome any males that become a problem.


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## fltekdiver

Thanks I appreciate it, I didn't know that, is this a good place to buy them ?

<vendor name removed>


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## slater32

You being in Florida you have a few local options where even if you pay for shipping it will be $20 instead of ballpark $50

Look here for local supplier / fish farm:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/reviews/retailer_index.php

<vendor name removed>
<vendor name removed>

Both based in Florida


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## fltekdiver

Thanks! One is a hour away, I may drive their today , I appreciate it


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## DJRansome

Vendor names removed so Cichlid-forum can keep review-type information in the Reviews section. :thumb: Feel free to send PMs.


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## fltekdiver

Tanks not ready yet 

PH =7.8 to 8.0

Ammonia = .50ppm

Nitrite = .50ppm

Nitrate = 5.0 ppm


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## slater32

DJRansome said:


> Vendor names removed so Cichlid-forum can keep review-type information in the Reviews section. :thumb: Feel free to send PMs.


 You know I did....


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## fltekdiver

I'm on my way to Daytona to check them out and check my water parameters


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## DJRansome

I'd wait until you can add 4ppm ammonia and have the ammonia and nitrite back to zero within 24 hours...and then wait 48 hours more.


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## tanker3

I was wondering about API quick start. Over the years I have used many of these "Instant Start" product and none have worked. Dr. TIM'S does shorten the cycle. But none of the others did anything. Sorry, but you must still get some ammonia to continue the cycle, but showing Nitrites you are almost there.


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## fltekdiver

I agree I used them on my saltwater tanks in the past and had great success from the looks of the readings looks like I'm about halfway there I should have tested when I first added to water and again this morning once I get the nitrites to 0, i will wait about two days. I can tell you the biosphere for saltwater tanks was a lot better by the next day it was ready for fish. I threw two clown fish in it for the first week watch the levels and everything worked out well


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## fltekdiver

Well, I don't know what happened. I bought the store my water sample, and they said water was perfect to add around 5 fish? I said but I showed alittle ammonia and Nitrite, so I know its not completely cycled. They said it was at the very end of the cycle, and adding the fish wouldn't be a problem.

So I spent 2 hour's watching their Mbuna tanks, and Peacocks and Haps. I really like the Mbuna colors. They were allot more active , and allot more fun to watch

They talked me into Peacocks and Haps, saying their allot easier and get along better,but If I wanted Mbuna's, I would just over stock, they sold me 3 male Peacocks, and 2 females at the end

I got home, and called them up, and said I changed my mind, I really liked the Mbuna's instead

They said I could return the Peacocks, or just keep them and ad the Mbuna's , 5 peacocks will be fine to mix

I got them home and in the tank, they gave me 24 hours to bring them back

Suggestions ?


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## fltekdiver

Wife likes the Peacocks. Love's the colors on them. Their juvenile's, so they have to color up yet. I got one male alittle bigger, and he has awesome colors all ready starting

Maybe I'll just keep them Peacocks and Haps


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## slater32

Like I mentioned, my preference is Peacocks!
Trust me, they will have their entertaining moments...
What did you think of Daytona? Kid in a candy store?


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## fltekdiver

Small place, but the most Cichlids I've seen in any LFS.

I've been to allot of LFS in the area , but mostly SW stores. The FW stores only had a few small tanks of Cichlids

This place has walls of them. I was able to get junivels and the ones I liked once I seen the males

I been spending hours now reading how to stock a Peocock tank for 90G

I'm going to stick with them , I think they will do well in a 4' footprint tank

Once I know the tank is 100% cycled, and balances out, I'll go back and buy more. I'm going to give the tank about 2 weeks now that theirs 5 first in there

Thanks for the help, it was worth the drive !


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## fltekdiver

I got a small pc of driftwood so it wouldn't soften the water to much, and lower PH. It's the only pc I'll put in their. I also bought some crushed coral, and put in in my sump to help keep the PH higher

Here's a pic of the fish and tank so far

I'll update Tuesday when my lights come in


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## DJRansome

Nothing wrong with peacocks and haps. Are you going mixed gender then? Ideal is to have 4 females for each male. One species of peacock per tank if you are going mixed gender (or don't save fry and don't sell the adult females once mixed).


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## fltekdiver

Thanks for the quick response.

I will not be saving the fry, ( I guess that's the babies ) ? Or selling anything

When you say one species , you mean just stick within the Peacock family right? Don't mix Africans or Southern Cichlids with the Peacocks?

Females from what I understand don't have allot of color right?


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## fltekdiver

Ok, after reading I believe you suggested this also, to do a all male tank. I don't why they gave me females

Another thing was they were supposed to give me a list of what I bought, the species, so I knew how to stock from here

I'm pretty annoyed, I'm going to call them up today and either bring them all back, or try to figure out which 2 are the females

I have a pretty good idea, one has good coloring all ready, so I know he's a male, and two others are stripped, so they are probably males

I think it would be better to do a all male tank of Peacocks and over stock from what I'm reading


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## fltekdiver

Cam home from work today, and lost 3 of the 5 fish.

Tested the water, and it's still in the middle of a cycle. I should have never listened to the store, their words were " Waters perfect " . I been in the hobby long enough to know this. I have nobody to blame but myself

In the past few years I could count the fish I lost on my SW tanks, their was so little and I had 3 SW tanks going

Today I lost most fish then I did in the past 2 years in SW

Ammonia = 0.50ppm to 1.0ppm

Nitrites = 1.0ppm which was expected by yesterdays reading

Nitrates = 5.0ppm which was expected by yesterdays reading


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## DJRansome

Sorry for your loss. Don't give up!


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## fltekdiver

Just left a different fish store they told me the tank is half cycled the other two fish died today

So now that I'm going to start all over I think I'm going to do I'm a Mumba tank!

They are juveniles and too small to tell male from female I would like the ratio to be correct any suggestions?

They said give it a couple more days and wait till this weekend to come back then possibly start with some starter fish and try again

Dem


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## tanker3

As all said, wait for the cycle to complete and then start stocking.

Which Mbunas are you planning on getting. Only what the LFS stock??


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## fltekdiver

I'm not sure. I really don't want to limit my stocking to a LFS. 
But I really like the Demasoni , along with some yellow labs, and maybe red zebra

Now that I know I want a Mbuna tank, I'll start really researching stocking a 90G tank, and asking questions

SO I'm thinking :

12 x Demasonia - 2M to every 6F ?

6 x Yellow Blab 2M to 5F ?

3 x Red Zebra 1M to 2F ?

That will leave me maybe another dozen fish? I was thinking for a 90G stocking around 30+ Mbuna ?


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## DJRansome

20 is good, except you want demasoni.

First do not save fry with both labs and estherae (red zebra) in the tank. 1m:4f on the estherae, they are aggressive.

Shoot to end up with 15 demasoni after removing males. 3m:12f has worked for me in that size tank.


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## fltekdiver

Thanks. So maybe red zebra isn't a wise choice? I only saw a few of these in the LFS

I defiantly like the Demasoni , so we'll go 15 - 3m and 12f

Then I was thinking some Yellow Labs, or Pseudotrophheus Acei ( yellow with blue tail) they didn't have these, I just found them on You Tube, they did have Yellow Labs

So We have Demasonia and Yellow labs or something

That would leave me room for 2 more species in the Lake Malawi family right?

Also I would need some Catfish, how many? What are their reason for being in the mix?

What would be next 2 that are colorful, and get along with the Demasoni and Labs?


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## fltekdiver

new list ?

Demasoni x 20+ down to 15 - 3m -12f

Afra Hara x 6 - 2m - 4f

Yellow Lab x 8 - 2m - 6f

Rusty's x 6 - 2m -4f

How's this look?

Anything I should change or maybe add in the white, or more color then the blue family?

Catfish?


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## tanker3

Stock looks OK to me, but a little heavy on the fish load. Demasoni will be a handful, but they do look nice. Or you can try for another "Dark Blue Fish". 
Ex. Cynotilapia zebroides (Msobo), or Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos.


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## DJRansome

I'd do 1m:4f on species other than demasoni. Make sure you are up for the demasoni challenge. No reason for 2m on labs since females look alike. If you want to go higher on males for rusties or hara I'd up the females and drop a species. Hara are not afra and they are not timid!

Also, usually 3 males work better than 2...more variety for fights so no one fish gets all the damage.

With demasoni requiring the large group, many do not go for the full 4 species in 48x18.


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## fltekdiver

Ok, I really like the Demasoni, so let's drop the Rustys

So my goal would be end up with 15 Demansoni, 1 male lab, rest females, maybe 1m and 6f yellow labs

So I have the blues and yellows covered , that puts me back to maybe orange colors like the red zebra, but their aggressive, anything else for the third species?

Can't thank you guys enough for the help


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## Roger That

I would drop the fish load in a 4' tank too...
White Top Hara 1m:4f
Yellow Lab 1m:4f
Rusty's 1m:4f
Demasoni...this is where you're load gets a bit heavy, this species does better in groups of 12 or more...and they are hard to keep from everything I've read. Have you considered Maingano? Mine are coloring up nicely.

Here's a photo of three of the four species together

Here's a pic where they were posing for me.


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## fltekdiver

Ok, I'm going to loose sleep all night worrying about Damasoni, especially when Dajransome said if I'm up to the Damasoni challenge. I don't want a stressful tank, I just want a colorful one.

So I hate to say it, but let's drop the Damasoni.

I read pic your fish, yeh build your tank around that. So I thought even if I just went with Damasoni and yellow labs, it would look awesome. But those fish above are beautiful also!

I'm not That crazy about Rustys. I'm trying to stay out of the silver colors. But I haven't seen them in person

So dropping the Des


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## fltekdiver

Ok, I'm going to loose sleep all night worrying about Damasoni, especially when Dajransome said if I'm up to the Damasoni challenge. I don't want a stressful tank, I just want a colorful one.

So I hate to say it, but let's drop the Damasoni.

I read pic your fish, yeh build your tank around that. So I thought even if I just went with Damasoni and yellow labs, it would look awesome. But those fish above are beautiful also!

I'm not That crazy about Rustys. I'm trying to stay out of the silver colors. But I haven't seen them in person

So dropping the Damasoni, that seems like it will take the stress off the fish and load of the 4' tank

The fish are perfect and colorful in those photos

White Top Hara 1m x4f ( love this fish, thanks for pointing them out )
Yellow Lab 1m x 4f
Maingano 1m x 4f ( love this one also! ) Thanks !

That put me with 3 Mnuba Species and around 15 fish , seems alittle short for a 90G , would I need a 4th species?


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## fltekdiver

DJRansome said:


> I think mbuna are easier, and you can have mixed gender with all colorful fish. Look at reviews for online feedback or PM me.
> 
> An easy, colorful mbuna tank. Four species 1m:4f of each:
> 1m:4f Labidochromis caeruleus
> 1m:4f Pseudotropheus acei Ngara
> 1m:4f Cynotilapia sp hara
> 1m:4f Iodotropheus sprengerae
> 
> Buy 8 unsexed juveniles of each. Rehome any males that become a problem.


You posted this on the first few post, were getting close thank you


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## Roger That

And that is correct....the White Top Hara is far from timid, lol. The male in the two photos above is without question the Tank Boss of my 125 gallon and he is NOT challenged. One night I thought I was going to have to remove him from the tank somehow as he was going berserk. He was claiming half the tank as his territory and would aggressively attack anything that crossed the midway point and would chase them all the way across the tank and behind the rocks. He would then race back to his spot for the next fish that came close. He would also swim quickly up to a group of fish and would stop right in front of them and would kind of curl and quiver and shake until they all raced away. Quite entertaining, and he would turn his stripes on and off while carrying on through all of this.

On another note, I ordered my fish probably from the same supplier in Daytona. If you talked to Billy then you were in good hands. You're much closer to them than I am but their shipping was outstanding.


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## Roger That

fltekdiver said:


> The fish are perfect and colorful in those photos
> 
> White Top Hara 1m x4f ( love this fish, thanks for pointing them out )
> Yellow Lab 1m x 4f
> Maingano 1m x 4f ( love this one also! ) Thanks !
> 
> That put me with 3 Mnuba Species and around 15 fish , seems alittle short for a 90G , would I need a 4th species?


If you go this route, you can throw the Rusties back in the mix. Or you could just up the Maingano to 1m:7f. In my second photo, the Rusty is facing he camera just above the male White Top Hara. When they reach adulthood, they color up nice to a purplish..reddish...rusty color depending on the angle and color of light. I saw a couple of adult Rusties that had amazing color in a LFS in their display tank, they had a red LED light strip mounted behind the front top rim of the tank in addition to the LED lighting above that I think really made the colors pop.

Don't feel bad....I wanted to try Demasoni too but opted against it being a newbie.


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## fltekdiver

Thanks I appreciate it. I saw Billy and Tim the other day I was up their. I wasn't crazy with Tims help, but Billy was spot on, unfortunately he was busy, and I was dealing with Tim

I'd like to have a 4th species in their if I could ( what about the red top zebra instead of the Rustys? )

I'll head back up their Saturday, and give them this list. I may teak it just a bit, but for now I have a starting point

I wasn't planning on Mnuba at first, so I'll need to add more rock in. Possibly lace rock or limestone to help bring the PH up

I appreciate it.

One last question I have to redo part of ,y sump with silicone with a baffle, so while I have no fish, I don't have the pump running because I had to tweak my sump design to get the water to flow more over the drip tray, it was getting through the sides allot

The tank will keep cycling until I can turn everything back on tomorrow night right?


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## Roger That

I don't think the Zebras and the Hara's will coexist honestly....too much testosterone, lol. The other species I have is the Fuelleborni....the male is an OB blue and the females are an earth toned brown and beige OB. They are also in the second photo.

As far as your sump goes....I wouldn't wait too long. If you have a powerhead going to keep it circulating and continue feeding the tank you should be ok.


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## fltekdiver

Ok, I started the sump up again and ghost fed again to the DT. Thanks !


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## Roger That

Reading back through a couple of your last posts, you stated that you aren't crazy about Rusty's because you don't want any silver or colorless fish. Rusty's are not a colorless or silver fish. Both males and females look alike...a purplish, rusty color that changes in the light.


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## fltekdiver

Ok thanks I appreciate it. I guess what I meant is, I like fish with strong solids, colorful stripped

They looked like they could be in the Peacock family from the pics, where I noticed allot of the peacocks look great under lights, but when they lights are off you see a bunch of silver, if that sounds right. I'm limited on Cichlids, I been so much time building the stand. Sump, substrate, LED lights, I haven't focused on the fish yet till this past weekend

My friend was telling me today, to mix me up even more, that it sounds like I want Arrican Cichlids, where their solid viberent colors, but no as much work as Mnubas. He said they were allot less attitude then the Munba

I'm researching them now, as I haven't even looked into Africans, seems like the LFS carry allot of Peacocks and Mnubas


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## Roger That

Lol. I found that when it came to talking about the actual different African Cichlid species to leave it here to this forum. There are several LFS's in my area and every single one of them has a different opinion on species, stocking and aquarium setup....absolutely no consistency. I learned to verify everything someone from a LFS or friend tells me.

My Mbuna get along quite well together and seem to get along....at least for the last month. It's all about getting a stock group that will coexist, other than that Mbuna are no more difficult than my daughter's glow Tetra's in her community tank. Personally, I like the active and playful Mbuna. Every time I look at a Peacock or Hap tank they all just seem to be floating around captive in a cage. JMHO


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## fltekdiver

fltekdiver said:


> Ok thanks I appreciate it. I guess what I meant is, I like fish with strong solids, colorful stripped
> 
> They looked like they could be in the Peacock family from the pics, where I noticed allot of the peacocks look great under lights, but when they lights are off you see a bunch of silver, if that sounds right. I'm limited on Cichlids, I been so much time building the stand. Sump, substrate, LED lights, I haven't focused on the fish yet till this past weekend
> 
> My friend was telling me today, to mix me up even more, that it sounds like I want Arrican Cichlids, where their solid viberent colors, but no as much work as Mnubas. He said they were allot less attitude then the Munba
> 
> I'm researching them now, as I haven't even looked into Africans, seems like the LFS carry allot of Peacocks and Mnubas


I think he's talking about Peacocks or Haps . I just read Mnuba come from the Africa lake


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## fltekdiver

Roger That said:


> Lol. I found that when it came to talking about the actual different African Cichlid species to leave it here to this forum. There are several LFS's in my area and every single one of them has a different opinion on species, stocking and aquarium setup....absolutely no consistency. I learned to verify everything someone from a LFS or friend tells me.
> 
> My Mbuna get along quite well together and seem to get along....at least for the last month. It's all about getting a stock group that will coexist, other than that Mbuna are no more difficult than my daughter's glow Tetra's in her community tank. Personally, I like the active and playful Mbuna. Every time I look at a Peacock or Hap tank they all just seem to be floating around captive in a cage. JMHO


I couldn't agree more. I been listening to the pros here, vs the LFS

From the 3 I've been to , they never been so detailed as far as compability stocking issues then here

Yes, I agree 100% , every time I see a Peacock tank, they swim around, be like to stay in one spot. I look over at a Mnuba tank. And all I see is fishing swimming and very active. They like to move around !

I need to look into aquascaping a Mnuba tank, as I didn't set mine up for this species in the begging


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## fltekdiver

I have fake rocks with caves, driftwood, and fake rock with a cave in the back of the driftwood

Do you think I need to add more rock, and caves for Mnuba?

Or maybe a pc of Texas Holey Rock for the PH ?


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## Roger That

I wouldn't worry about relying on rock or substrate to raise your PH levels, it won't make much of a difference. As long as you are 7.8 or above....the most important thing is consistency of the PH level. And yes, Peacocks, Haps and Mbuna are all from Lake Malawi and are from the same lake. Nothing wrong with Peacocks or Haps...they're just get really big and will limit your stock in a 90 gallon tank.

Yes I would add more rock...Mbuna will want to establish territory with lots of nooks and crannies and caves. The aquascape is important to help limit aggression. I would add rock in piles to about half way up the tank in height. Check out your local landscaping supply company for cheaper rock, just make sure to wash it well and let it soak in water for a couple of days prior to adding them to your tank.


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## fltekdiver

Thanks, I went to the local landscaping supply yard, and they have tons of different rocks. I didn't know what type to look at, and the river rocks was round, not good for caves they had. They were worried about iron trace elements leaching out. They said lighter color rocks had better chance of less minerals. Any suggestions? 
I could just order 50lbs of base rock for salt water tanks, but that has sharp edges


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## Roger That

Many here use granite. It is cheap, easy to clean and stacks well. I have Lace Rock that I bought from a LFS down here....very expensive buying it this way. Google Lace Rock on line and you will find some places that will ship you rock by the pound. Lace rock has plenty of sharp edges too, FWIW.


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## fltekdiver

Perfect I did not know about the granite I was worried about the minerals in it I'm at the landscaping supply place now looking at Rock again I took a look at least rock but it is so expensive for what you get, that's good to know about the granite I'm actually at the yard now looking at their stone


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## fltekdiver

Just picked up 100lbs of flat and other pcs of mixed river rock etc, boiled them all for 30min, and now washing them all. Hoping to get them in the tank tonight

They charged me $0.33 cents a pound, basically came out to $38 to all the rock to build their caves, not bad!


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## DJRansome

Here is a river rock solution.


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## fltekdiver

Well, after seeing this picture above, and spending 3 hours getting the rock, boiling it, stacking it making caves, I tore it all down and threw it away. It didn't look natural

I kept a few small pcs and put them in the tank on the bottom

I like low profile, and not cluttered up with a bunch of rocks just piled up. I like a clean open tank. So I'll have to wait to find something else to go with my décor



I found picture online, and love it, looks natural, full, lots of hiding spots, I love this tank


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## Roger That

Be careful with too much driftwood as it will lower your PH, that's a SA Discus tank. Look through the gallery for some aquascaping ideas.


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## fltekdiver

Ohh thank you! Ok I'll look now for some ideas, looks like I can buy the rock locally, should I take my driftwood out?


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## Roger That

What you have now should be ok, I just wouldn't load up with it without keeping an eye on your PH levels. Start with three piles of rock with the larger rocks as the base and pile them up...if the piles meet so be it. If you don't have enough rock focus on one pile until you can add more if you like. Here's another photo of my rock layout. I made a couple of small adjustments....my Mbuna made a few more. They've dug out a couple of really deep caves in the sand and rocks.


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## fltekdiver

Wow beautiful tank! I love the aquascaping and plants, perfect size!

The rock I bought I could never do that. I threw it all away tonight

It looks like you got lace rock and a PC or two of Holey rock?


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## Roger That

I wouldn't throw it away, lol. Mine is all lace rock, no holey rock. There are a few pieces of petrified wood it appears, which look really cool! The plants are plastic bamboo plants 3' long. I'm sure you can use the rock you have, just take some time and look through the gallery on his site or some aquascaping ideas that will work with the rock you have. There are some really nice setups that look similar to the layout in the photo that you just posted.

By the way...the two photos I just posted I'm using two 24" Current Satellite + LED's with a dual ramp timer.


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## fltekdiver

Roger That said:


> I wouldn't throw it away, lol. Mine is all lace rock, no holey rock. There are a few pieces of petrified wood it appears, which look really cool! The plants are plastic bamboo plants 3' long. I'm sure you can use the rock you have, just take some time and look through the gallery on his site or some aquascaping ideas that will work with the rock you have. There are some really nice setups that look similar to the layout in the photo that you just posted.
> 
> By the way...the two photos I just posted I'm using two 24" Current Satellite + LED's with a dual ramp timer.


Awesome I just got my LED yesterday satellite plus seems like a pretty good light

Looks like I will have to order the laca rock Online I'm thinking probably 50 pounds?


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## Roger That

50 pounds is a good start. There is no set in stone amount to use (excuse the pun) but I have 130 pounds in my 125 gallon tank. You could also combine it with the rock you already have. If you don't like the look of the rock you now have, put it at the bottom of the pile of rocks so it is not as visible.


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## fltekdiver

Thanks

The water is getting close, Ammonia is down to .025ppm and nitrites are all most done also, another few days I'll be good


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## Roger That

Keep checking ammonia levels. It should reach 0 tonight or tomorrow. When you get that 0 reading, wait 24 hours and then dose with ammonia to 2 ppm and start checking Nitrite levels....not Nitrate. No need to continue checking ammonia as it should drop to 0 within 24 hours. Redose with ammonia to 2 ppm every other day until the Nitrite reading also drops to 0 ppm. Keep the a nitrite level below 5 ppm by doing 25% water changes if necessary.
(If you added any established media from another tank, this above process can all occur in just a couple of days)

Once Nitrites drop to 0 within 24 hours start checking Nitrates. Keep dosing with ammonia every other day until you add fish. Don't add fish until 48 hours father the last ammonia dose. Then add your little demons, lol.


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## fltekdiver

Thanks! I added Seachem Stability to quick start the tank. I used to dose the way stated above, but with the quick start, the tanks are usually ready for fish within a few days

I spent hours today looking into lace rock, and the cost along with holey rock.

I ended up buying a huge rock with tons of holes that fake, for cichlids for $55.00 from petsmart, along with a huge fake drift wood so I'll remove the pc in their so it doesn't lower my PH

I'll post pics in a bit when I get home, I love the pcs I bought today, their awesome for Cichlids !

Thanks again for your help


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## fltekdiver

You guys are great! Thanks again for all your help!

I love this tank, the fake rock is gorgeous and has so many holes for Cichlids, and underneath tunnels ! The best $55.00 I spent in this hobby in a long time!

Here it is, waiting for fish! Well, Drumrolllllllllll please!!!


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## Roger That

Looks lonely in there without fish. Should be ready in a few days. Good luck with your new stock of little monsters.


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## fltekdiver

Thank you! How do you like the new look? I'm really happy with in, the tank is filled in nicely , and tons of spots and swim throughs for the little devils, lol

As I'm setting everything up, I keep thinking these little monsters are going to flip everything over. And make the tank the way they like it, lol

I'm hoping a few more days. This is the longest tank I had cycle with the quick start, it's really weird.

I'm so excited, I can't wait to get a few to see how they do


----------



## DJRansome

Roger That said:


> I would add rock in piles to about half way up the tank in height.


It looks beautiful! Mbuna would appreciate even more rock...some say fill the tank to the waterline.


----------



## Roger That

It looks great, but DJ is right that Mbuna will like as much rock as you can put in. I really like the flat rock wall background and black sand. The more stock of Mbuna that you have together in the tank the more need for their own territory to claim. But you have a good start, they will make several homes with what you now have. The issue may become in the future when they mature and harassed fish will have a hard time getting away from an aggressor. But your good for awhile.


----------



## fltekdiver

Thank you both! Omg, these little devils sound like a handful ! lol

Thanks for the tips. Of they start to get aggressive, I'll buy some flat rocks, and put them under the fake rocks to raise them

I have another fake rock that's about 12" long and 12" high, but I couldn't fit it in the tank without really closing up their swimming quarters

I'll have to wait and see, but I'm very happy with the outcome. I was really stressed about the rock situation, espicalley after boiling 100lbs of real rocks, hand washing them, staking them, only to tear it all down and throw them away, lol


----------



## fltekdiver

I'm alittle concerned about my flow being to much. I bought a Jebao DCT6000 return pump. I had great success running these on my SW tanks, and with the DC pumps, I can adjust this one to 10 different speeds, as well as hit feed mode to shut the pump down for 10 min

It says If I'm reading the chart right, head pressure is 1200GHP @ 5' at max speed, 1565 GPH @ 0 head pressure is the starting point

I had to re-do my return line loc tonight to a dual line loc, as the single was pushing to much sand around no matter how I adjusted it

I haven't run the pump on max speed since I got it, as I know the sump and drip plate need around 600GPH , so I'm running it on level 7 of 10

It seems like it's still pushing a ton of water with the dual line loc. I know the fish like alittle current, but also need to rest , and also know I need to keep the GPH alittle higher so the detritus doesn't settle on the bottom

I can slow it down to level 6 which seems perfect flow wise, bit I'm not sure where that puts me GPH on a DCT6000 @5' head pressure


----------



## DJRansome

There is nothing wrong with a little debris on the bottom, that is why the fishkeeper vacuums the substrate.


----------



## fltekdiver

Water tests till showing at the end of the cycle. Nitrites are still alittle high, Ammonia is just about gone
I'm doing the tank as directed on the Seachem Stability bottle, looks like by middle next week I should be good with two days after the cycle to stabilize


----------



## fltekdiver

Water test has stabilized, it's been 2 weeks now I believe with the quick start

I forgot where we left off fish wise, lol

I showed my wife the Rusties over the weekend, and she like's the more solid colorful fish , or solid with strips

So I know these two are so far:

White Top Hara 1m:4f
Yellow Lab 1m:4f

I was thinking a Saulosi ? If I'm spelling it correctly? I need something possibly deep blues like the Demonsie to mix with the yellow labs


----------



## Roger That

Saulosi is a vertically striped blue fish and yellow females. The Hara is also blue barred and will probably clash. The females look similar to the yellow labs.
I'm not certain if this will work but the Cobalt Zebra is a solid blue fish.


----------



## fltekdiver

Ok glad I asked, because tomorrow I'll be picking up the yellow labs since their more common and in stock. Problem is, they don't know at juveniles the M to F ratio

So I have 5 Yellow labs going in and 5 Hara's , not sure if they have them in stock

I'll still need about another 15+ fish to get the count up around 25 -30 for a 90G tank?

So I'm left with 2 options still, any suggestions?


----------



## Roger That

And don't forget the horizontally striped Maingano. See if you can get them around 2" and they will be able to sex them better.

That gives you...
Yellow Labs 1m:4f
White Top Hara 1m:4f
Cobalt Zebra 1m:4f
Maingano 1m:7f


----------



## Roger That

Meaning all of the fish at 2".
Then you can add 4 Synodontis Multipunctatus' for fry control.


----------



## fltekdiver

Roger That said:


> And don't forget the horizontally striped Maingano. See if you can get them around 2" and they will be able to sex them better.
> 
> That gives you...
> Yellow Labs 1m:4f
> White Top Hara 1m:4f
> Cobalt Zebra 1m:4f
> Maingano 1m:7f


That was what I was looking for, thanks, I just printed this out to bring to them tomorrow. That's the exact list I couldn't find :thumb:

Which would be better to add first, since tomorrow I'll only be buying probably 5 fish to see how they do for the next 2 weeks , before adding the others


----------



## fltekdiver

Roger That said:


> Meaning all of the fish at 2".
> Then you can add 4 Synodontis Multipunctatus' for fry control.


Got ya, I may have to go back to Daytona Aquarium then, the LFS doesn't have that much of a selection near me

If I new the tank was stable enough 100%, I'd buy them online and pay for the shipping, so I know exactly what I'm getting. Cheapest over night shipping I could find was $39.00 added to the order


----------



## fltekdiver

Roger That said:


> Meaning all of the fish at 2".
> Then you can add 4 Synodontis Multipunctatus' for fry control.


Perfect, I'm not selling the fry or anything. These come from Lake Tanganyika, which is a different lake, they will be fine with the Mbuna's ?


----------



## Roger That

fltekdiver said:


> That was what I was looking for, thanks, I just printed this out to bring to them tomorrow. That's the exact list I couldn't find :thumb:
> 
> Which would be better to add first, since tomorrow I'll only be buying probably 5 fish to see how they do for the next 2 weeks , before adding the others


Yellow Labs. They are the least aggressive of the stock if only adding one species first.

But wait until your tank is 100% ready for fish meaning 2-4ppm of ammonia dropping to zero within 24 hours, 0 nitrites and THEN check nitrates. If above 20 ppm do some partial water changes.

Then order ALL of your fish from Daytona. Shipping only cost me $20 down here in Broward County.


----------



## Roger That

fltekdiver said:


> Roger That said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning all of the fish at 2".
> Then you can add 4 Synodontis Multipunctatus' for fry control.
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect, I'm not selling the fry or anything. These come from Lake Tanganyika, which is a different lake, they will be fine with the Mbuna's ?
Click to expand...

Yes they are fine with Mbuna....they eat their fry. Get these cats 2" - 3".


----------



## fltekdiver

Roger That said:


> fltekdiver said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was what I was looking for, thanks, I just printed this out to bring to them tomorrow. That's the exact list I couldn't find :thumb:
> 
> Which would be better to add first, since tomorrow I'll only be buying probably 5 fish to see how they do for the next 2 weeks , before adding the others
> 
> 
> 
> Yellow Labs. They are the least aggressive of the stock if only adding one species first.
> 
> But wait until your tank is 100% ready for fish meaning 2-4ppm of ammonia dropping to zero within 24 hours, 0 nitrites and THEN check nitrates. If above 20 ppm do some partial water changes.
> 
> Then order ALL of your fish from Daytona. Shipping only cost me $20 down here in Broward County.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks, I have 0 ammonia , but Nitrites have been hovering around 1.00ppm since Saturday. I'll check it again today, I haven't checked it today

Daytona is a hour drive from me, I'll call them tomorrow and see what they have in stock, I appreciate your quick response, and help buddy , thank you


----------



## fltekdiver

Test are :

PH =7.6

Ammonia = 0

Nitrites = 0.25ppm

Nitrates = 5.0ppm

Looks like it's about cycled, maybe I'll do a water change tomorrow and wait till Thursday to add them


----------



## Roger That

Your cycle is not yet finished. You still have nitrite readings. Are you feeding the tank with ammonia every other day? If so, your nitrite level should drop to zero in a day or so. When you get your first 0 nitrite reading, then check nitrates. Your nitrate level now is skewed because you still have nitrite readings.

Keep dosing with ammonia to 2 ppm every other day until your ready to add your fish. Make sure and wait 48 hours after your last ammonia dose to add your fish.


----------



## fltekdiver

I don't understand, it's like the cycle has stalled since Saturday

Ammonia is 0 , but my Nitrites are still at .025ppm , which is very little, but it's been like that all week

I'm adding 5 cap fulls of Seachem Stability every day as the bottle suggest. I think that's whats giving me these false readings?

The bottle says to use with fish, but theirs no fish in the tank


----------



## Roger That

Ditch the stability. It's not needed and may be skewing your results. Be patient.


----------



## slater32

Stability is bacteria in a bottle. The bacteria feed off of the ammonia in the tank and yours has already depleted it's food source and converted the ammonia to nitrite. In order to survive, your bacteria need a food source. Adding fish will provide the ammonia source needed for your colony to survive.


----------



## fltekdiver

slater32 said:


> Stability is bacteria in a bottle. The bacteria feed off of the ammonia in the tank and yours has already depleted it's food source and converted the ammonia to nitrite. In order to survive, your bacteria need a food source. Adding fish will provide the ammonia source needed for your colony to survive.


That's what I thought . I'll add a few fish today, and keep adding the Stability


----------



## Roger That

Yes, Stability is bacteria in a bottle....if it works. And it is also correct that the bacteria colony in your tank need a food source to survive.....but you are doing a FISHLESS CYLCE. This means cycling without fish, you may continue to lose fish until your cycle is complete.

Again...be patient. You are almost there. You're nitrite WILL drop to zero, and since you are at .25 ppm it won't be long. But you must continue to feed ammonia in your tank every other day up until 48 hours before adding your fish, this is the food source that is feeding your bacteria colony and what you have been feeding it with since you started the fishless cycle. Don't change it up by adding fish again, even if they survive there could be harmful damage to the fish. JMHO

Also, Stability is not needed. You already have a bacteria colony started, this is proven by the fact that your ammonia has disappeared and your nitirite is turning to nirtrate. Stability will not do anything more to add more bacteria, you are just introducing another water altering parameter in your tank. Keep it simple.


----------



## fltekdiver

I appreciate it I just saw your post I just came back from the fish store and bought my water down they agreed I was at the very end they said just had a couple of fish so I bought three lab
s for now

They also suggested at this point to do a small war to change about 25% is that a good idea


----------



## tanker3

I would do bigger WC (30-50%), because your cycle is not completed. Why would your LFS say that your cycle is "Almost completed" and then sell you fish before it is finished?

Also as "Roger" said---"Stability is bacteria in a bottle....if it works". I have had varing success with these bacteria in a bottle.


----------



## fltekdiver

Ok I just put the fish in after acclimating them they seem like they are breathing a little heavy the local fish store said the nitrites were so low they can be removed with the water change , and the cycle was just about complete
they said I have two options to keep dozin with ammonia or add a couple of fish in replace of dosing with ammonia till it is complete they said it should be complete by tomorrow the nitrite level was so low. They said the stability only works if there is an ammonia load from either fish or dosing

Do you think I should just take them out and bring them back the fish store is only 15 minutes away


----------



## fltekdiver

I'm going to.pull them out if I can catch them , and dose with ammonia, two weeks I can't believe it's not cycled

I started 2 SW tanks with bio in the bottle, and had fish in them 2 days later

I'm not sure what is going on here because the cycle kind of stalled
I'm going to just pull them until the nitrites are 0


----------



## tanker3

1) A good LFS would wait till your cycle is 100% finished. Not "your almost ready, so add fish"
2) IMO, Mbunas are "easier" depending on which fis he's you get and which ones you mix them with. 
3) Unless you get only one species of Peacocks, or Haps, you will need to go all males.


----------



## Roger That

Your cycle may have stalled a bit because you have "stalled" your cycle process. What I mean to say is, you were following the process of a fishless cycle and doing great....until you got a little anxious and added some fish before the process was complete resulting in the unfortunate demise of a few young cichlids. 

I also am surprised that your LFS would tell you your cycle is not yet finished and then sell you some fish. That's why I stopped trusting any LFS for any advice with African Cichlids. This place is by far your best source for accurate information! For example, three LFS's near me had no idea what I was talking about when asking about fishless cycling with ammonia. Another one was interested in trying it to start some new tanks but didn't know where to get the proper ammonia so I gave him what I used and told him how to start. Not many LFS's specialize in primarily cichlids due to the popularity of SW tanks.


----------



## fltekdiver

Yes, I agree. Your 100% right, I trust everyone's opinion here , rather then from them. Let's back up 2 weeks ago, I tested the water, and knew it was in the middle of a cycle. Bought a water sample to one LFS who's name has been mentioned here a few times, I willn't say who. They told me my water was " perfect " I thought it was strange, and did the noob thing, and rushed it knowley it wasn't, trusted them, and all 5 fish dies withen 48 hours

SO I added the Stability for a week, 5 cap fulls a day as it suggest, but didn't add the ammonia till just a day or two ago.

Nitrites were at 0.25ppm for the last week, and ammonia was never really a 0, it got down to 0.25ppm

Knowing this, I again now 2 weeks into filling the tank, wanted fish now. SO today, a second LFS, totally different one, who said Saturday wait till this Wednesday I should be fine, said today I was at the end of the cycle, and it's ok to add a few fish. So I bought 3 labs today

After knowing myself, the tank wasn't fully cycled, I ended up bringing them all back today, and dossed another 2ppm of Ammonia. Now I'll wait 2 days, and check again.

I'm at a lost, because I added so much Stability in the past week, I'm thinking of just dumping the water and starting over

I also thought about adding a dead shrimp ( I did this on a SW tank years back ) to kick start it

Your right about the Cichlids, not many around here have a large selection. This LFS specializes in SW fish mostly, and have a good selection of FW fish, but limited amount of Cichlids

I asked him today when I returned the fish, to give me prices on my stocking list:

That gives you...
Yellow Labs 1m:4f
White Top Hara 1m:4f
Cobalt Zebra 1m:4f
Maingano 1m:7f

4 Synodontis Multipunctatus

He couldn't even give me prices, he said he would call me to see what's available, and never did


----------



## fltekdiver

Could the Stability be giving me wrong levels?

I'm dossing 35 drops of ammonia from Ace to get it to 2.0ppm in a 90G tank. But the ammonia quickly drops in 24 hours? Maybe because of all the Stability in the tank?

I went through all most a full bottle of 500ml in a week of Stability

Here's a new tank shot with the new plants


----------



## Roger That

Ahhhh......
If your ammonia never actually reached zero you were not yet close to cycled yet, which is why they all died. Then after that decided to use stability instead of continuing with ammonia dosing.....this is why your cycle stalled.

Go back to what works, ammonia dosing. Dose between 2-3 ppm of ammonia and check 24 hours later. Hopefully your bacteria colony is still thriving. If and when you get a zero reading of ammonia, check nitrite levels. NOT nitrate.

Now that the ammonia is converting to nitrites within 24 hours, dose with ammonia every other day to the same ammonia level you initially use. Here is where the fishless cycle article says to start doing 20% partial water changes daily while you wait for the nitrite to drop. Once nitrite levels reach zero, check nitrate level. It will likely be high. Do several small partial water changes to get the nitrate level to 20 ppm or below. Wait another 48 hours and you are ready for fish, add fish 48 hours after the last ammonia dose.


----------



## Roger That

Ditch the stability. When starting the cycle process stability will help kickstart the cycle, but once the bacteria colony is started (which is evident because the bacteria is what is converting the ammonia into nitrites) stability is no longer helping anything while doing a fishless cycle.

No need to start over with the water, stability is not going to hurt anything....it just isn't going to help. Your cycle stalled because after the fish died you were only adding stability. Your bacteria colony was not being fed with ammonia any longer, limiting bacteria reproduction. Go back and thoroughly read the fishless cycle article again, follow it and you will be fine. But don't get over anxious before the tank is ready.


----------



## fltekdiver

Ok, Dam, Yes, I'm 48 years old, and you would think I was a kid in a candy store, I just can't wait, lol

Ok, Yes, ammonia never reached 0 . I'm not adding anymore Stability at this point, I'll just dose ammonia

What about adding a pc of dead shrimp?

I'll check the ammonia levels again tomorrow, and it should be 0 right ? That would mean the ammonia is converting to Nitrites , if so then do water changes 20% and dose ammonia every other day, until both Ammonia and Nitrites read 0

At this point, Nitrites are depleted, and converted to Nitrates, so I can be expecting this count to be high. Then do water changes to bring down the Nitrates , once Nitrates go under 20ppm, wait 48 hours, and add fish!

So am I at the end or still in the middle of the cycle would you say? It's hard to tell since the cycle stalled the last week


----------



## Roger That

Yes it is a little hard to tell exactly where you are at in the cycle. If you have a zero ammonia reading tomorrow 24 hours after you dosed with ammonia today then check the nitrite level. If it is still very low like .25 ppm you are very close and should be there in a few days. You are basically ready once the nitrites are gone, you just then need to get the tank ready by getting the nitrate level down to acceptable.

And no do not add shrimp....ammonia.


----------



## fltekdiver

Thanks, I been reading the fishless cycle this whole time. It's been years since I done a complete fishless cycle, so I appreciate the help. It all seems new to me again all over

I'll know tomorrow when I test the ammonia to see how fast it's converting to Nitrites, and how fast the nitrites are dropping. I read 2 drop per gallon just now, so I was close by adding 35-40 drops . I'm going to test again now for ammonia , it's been about a half hour to make sure I'm upto 2ppm.


----------



## Roger That

That's two drops per gallon....not two gallons per drop. But I found that to actually be very high so I actually used one drop per gallon. But regardless, just check like you are doing and be between 2-3 ppm.


----------



## fltekdiver

Thanks, I lost count, I had to keep adding around 20-30 drops between each test. I just added another 30 drops a hour ago. I just tested it now for the third time tonight, and It's closer to 3ppm now since adding the last 30 drops. I think I'm over 100 drops now in the last few hours

So tomorrow night this time, I'll see how much it goes down. When I go to re add it, I'll do one drop per gallon, so about 110 drops for my 90G because I have a 40B sump, which runs around 29G

I'm definitely between 2-3ppm on the Ammonia, more closer to 3ppm , I don't want it any higher then that, so I have a good starting point again now, and I'll see how long it breaks down to 0 now, and what the Nitrites do next

Keeping my fingers crossed the Ammonia goes to 0 by tomorrow night , that will give me a idea if I have a good amount of beneficial bacteria established yet

Since I'm doing this correctly this time, I'll get allot of the fish, probably order online, and order all them at once, or maybe break the order into 2 orders 2 weeks apart, I'm not sure on that yet. I'm guessing I have a few hundred dollars in fish to buy


----------



## Roger That

That's about right where you want to be, 3 ppm is good. Wait the full 24 hours before checking ammonia.


----------



## fltekdiver

24 hours later ammonia went from 3pm to 1ppm
So I'll wait till it hits 0 tomorrow then redose


----------



## Roger That

No...wait till it hits zero tomorrow (assuming it does) then wait another 24 hours before dosing with ammonia again. Then every other day, not every day.


----------



## fltekdiver

Ohh ok, and what if it doesn't hit 0 ? What does that mean ?


----------



## Roger That

It means its not ready. Whenever you get a zero reading, anytime whenever that is, then wait 24 hours before adding more ammonia. But you will likely reach zero at some point tomorrow. That's a big drop which means you still have a good colony that's converting ammonia to nitrite.


----------



## fltekdiver

Ok thanks, If I would have started at 2ppm, it would probably be at 0 by now. I started at 3ppm, and I just checked it, It's been 30 hours now, and It's down to 0.50ppm
So that's 2.5ppm in 30 hours, that's not to bad. By tonight, it should reach 0 . Then I'll wait 24 hours before dosing. Next time I'll dose to 2ppm


----------



## Roger That

Stick to the same ammonia dose that you started with. Once it is reduced to zero, wait another 24 hours so all of the ammonia is fully converted to nitrite and you have a large enough bacteria colony to convert 3 ppm of ammonia to nitrite in 24 hours. That's what you want.

Now your next step is to build up the bacteria colony that converts nitrite to nitrate. It is already in the process and well on its way. Reread the nitrite phase of the fishless cycling article in the library section of this website again. You will be doing 20 - 30% partial water changes depending upon your nitrite levels and adding the same ammonia dose every other day until the nitrite level drops to zero.....not .5 ppm....not .25 ppm....Zero! When that happens, and only when you have converted nitrite to nitrate in a 24 hour time span, start checking the nitrate level.

Do multiple partial water changes to get and keep the nitrate level down to 20 ppm or below....keep dosing the same ammonia dose every other day to keep feeding the bacteria colony, order your stock of fish and coordinate the arrival to be 48 hours after your last ammonia dose. While waiting for the fish to arrive in the last 48 hours, keep checking nitrate levels and performing partial water changes as the nitrite is still being converted to nitrate.


----------



## fltekdiver

Thank you can't tell you how much I appreciate it I probably will be ordering them all at line at once last thing I want to do is lose 30 fish , i want to make sure the tank is fully cycled. 
I appreciate all your help I'm going to follow it to a T


----------



## Roger That

Just be patient and stick to the plan. You will most likely have a tank full of fish by next weekend. It's worth the wait.


----------



## fltekdiver

Wow, I wasn't expecting that quick, I was thinking another 2 weeks, Thanks for the good news!


----------



## fltekdiver

Yeh, it's been 48 hours now, and I'm reading 1ppm, so it never dropped to 0.50ppm

It's going to take some time still maybe another 2 weeks. Hopefully by tomorrow night it gets to 0ppm. If not I'm not sure , just keep waiting for it to drop to 0 ?


----------



## Roger That

That is correct....wait for it to drop to zero. It will, it has already dropped 2 ppm.


----------



## Samadhikash

Just want to give a big +1 to toughing it out and being patient until the bitter end. As you already noted fltekdiver, the last thing you want to do is take all your invested planning and effort and throw it away by putting your fish in a tank that's not ready. I've seen too many times where folks get excited, order fish prematurely on the hope that the tank will be cycled by their arrival, and they end up with fish in hand and a tank that isn't ready. You and your fish will be so much happier without that kind of stress.


----------



## fltekdiver

Samadhikash said:


> Just want to give a big +1 to toughing it out and being patient until the bitter end. As you already noted fltekdiver, the last thing you want to do is take all your invested planning and effort and throw it away by putting your fish in a tank that's not ready. I've seen too many times where folks get excited, order fish prematurely on the hope that the tank will be cycled by their arrival, and they end up with fish in hand and a tank that isn't ready. You and your fish will be so much happier without that kind of stress.


Thanks I appreciate it!

I tested again this morning , ammonia is still 1pmm ......This is killing me, lol


----------



## Roger That

Your bacteria colony was stalled a bit when you stopped feeding it. You are almost starting over. Stay patient and the ammonia will drop. A month from now you will be here giving fishless cycling advice to someone else looking or advice.


----------



## fltekdiver

Ahh yes, that makes perfect sense. I stopped with ammonia and just kept putting Stability in for a week

I check it twice a day right now, just to see if I have improvement


----------



## Roger That

Just stay patient and stick to the plan. The fact that your ammonia starting dropping right away means that your bacteria colony was at least still alive and partially established. Remember that the nitrite phase of the cycle can take up to twice the amount of time to get through the ammonia phase, but not necessarily.


----------



## zimmy

How long has it been since you first got a nitrite reading? This is usually the longest part of the cycle. The fishless cycles I've done have taken between 20-25 days unless I added media from an established tank.

I read through most of this thread and I'm not sure you've stalled the cycle by not adding ammonia more frequently. Your cycle sounds pretty normal to me. Most people overthink the ammonia dosing part. The bacteria can survive days without being fed. It's also not unusual to have a low ammonia reading most of the way through. Once the nitrites drop to 0, it will likely all fall into place.

I noticed someone advised changing up to 50% of the water during the cycling phase. That's not good advice as it will likely set the cycle back (unless you do them if you're trying to cycle with fish as it sounds like you were doing for a while). Since your nitrite readings are so low, I wouldn't bother doing any water changes till the tank is cycled.

Checking your parameters twice per day is a waste of time. The beneficial bacteria don't multiply in a linear fashion so you're not necessarily getting helpful information by testing so often.

It sounds like you're almost there. :thumb:


----------



## fltekdiver

Ok thanks I appreciate the feedback. I'm at 2 weeks now since I got my first Nitrite reading. Back then they were 2.0ppm, but I haven't checked them this week, as I'm only testing the ammonia. Once that drops to 0 , I'll test the Nitrites, wait 24 hours, then re-dose ammonia to 2.0ppm

So maybe I'm half way through the cycle, that's what I was thinking. I thought the Bio Sphere I used to start up my SW tanks worked so quickly, in a few days, but now that I think back, ( this was around 2 years ago ) I had live rock from another tank , so that's why they cycled within a few days

It's been about 5-7 years since I cycled a tank fishless. So I appreciate all the help

I haven't done any water changes yet, as I'm not at that point yet, according to the fishless cycles here in the library.

I have the temp at 77 degrees, I thought about raising it to 85 to help


----------



## fltekdiver

zimmy said:


> How long has it been since you first got a nitrite reading? This is usually the longest part of the cycle. The fishless cycles I've done have taken between 20-25 days unless I added media from an established tank.
> 
> I read through most of this thread and I'm not sure you've stalled the cycle by not adding ammonia more frequently. Your cycle sounds pretty normal to me. Most people overthink the ammonia dosing part. The bacteria can survive days without being fed. It's also not unusual to have a low ammonia reading most of the way through. Once the nitrites drop to 0, it will likely all fall into place.
> 
> I noticed someone advised changing up to 50% of the water during the cycling phase. That's not good advice as it will likely set the cycle back (unless you do them if you're trying to cycle with fish as it sounds like you were doing for a while). Since your nitrite readings are so low, I wouldn't bother doing any water changes till the tank is cycled.
> 
> Checking your parameters twice per day is a waste of time. The beneficial bacteria don't multiply in a linear fashion so you're not necessarily getting helpful information by testing so often.
> 
> It sounds like you're almost there. :thumb:


The past week I've only been testing ammonia, when it hits 0 I was going to wait 24 hours then redose ammonia

I wasn't going to test Nitrites until the ammonia read 0 after 24 hours of dosing

Should I check nitrites also during this time?


----------



## zimmy

I would want to monitor the nitrites at this point.

Does your tap water have chloramine? That can cause a low ammonia reading. Try testing it for ammonia.


----------



## fltekdiver

We're on city water, so I'm guessing yes. On my SW tanks I used a RO-DI unit, but what I'm reading you don't want to use them on freshwater tanks.

Ok I will test the nitrites also when I get home from work today with ammonia


----------



## fltekdiver

zimmy said:


> I would want to monitor the nitrites at this point.
> 
> Does your tap water have chloramine? That can cause a low ammonia reading. Try testing it for ammonia.


Ammonia is 0.50ppm and Nitrite is 0.50ppm as of 11/09/15

Last week Ammonia was 1.0ppm, and Nitrite was 1.00ppm about 5 days ago when I stropped testing Nitrites


----------



## fltekdiver

As of 11/10

Ammonia is 0.25ppm

Nitrites 0.25ppm

Slowly but surly getting their!

Now when ammonia hits 0 , I still need to do a 30% water change, and wait 24 hours, then re dose ammonia to 2ppm right?


----------



## zimmy

No need for a water change since your nitrites are low. Just dose with ammonia. I wouldn't bother waiting 24 hours. You should be dosing a couple of times per week.


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## fltekdiver

Ok, I just added 110 more drops of ammonia to 2.0ppm again, Let's see how long it takes to break it down


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## fltekdiver

2 days later all most same time, Ammonia is 1.0ppm, Nitrites are 1.00ppm

I notice it's taking about 4-5 days to break them down to close to 0

I still think I'm about 2 weeks out


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## Roger That

No more ammonia until it has dropped to zero! If not already....raise the temperature to 82 degrees. The bacteria colony will grow faster in warmer temps.


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## fltekdiver

Ok cool, I'll raise the temp now. It's only been at 77


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## Roger That

Just don't forget to lower the temps back to 78-80 degrees in the 48 hours after the cycle has finished while you are waiting for the fish to arrive.


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## fltekdiver

Yes 10/4, will do
I raised it to 82 , thanks again for the help


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## zimmy

Roger That said:


> No more ammonia until it has dropped to zero! If not already....raise the temperature to 82 degrees. The bacteria colony will grow faster in warmer temps.


+1 on raising the temperature. Adding a powerhead to maximize surface agitation to help ensure bacteria is getting oxygen will also help.

The main reason to not keep adding ammonia constantly is to keep your nitrite levels under control. Since your nitrite levels are well under 5ppm, I think it's better to keep dosing a couple of times per week even if your ammonia levels don't get to 0. Yours have not been quite getting there. They will eventually. Some consistent low dosing will help.


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## fltekdiver

Thank you. You guys are the best, I appreciate it

I think today makes 3 weeks since I started my cycle. SO I should hopefully get their in the next 2 weeks

Were going away Thanksgiving week, So I'm probably not going to add any fish till after that. Were only going away for 5 days, so I may add some if it's ready before leaving

I still need to get a ATO for when we go away for a few days, and automatic feeder


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## zimmy

I would wait till you get back before you add fish. It's good to be able to watch the fish as they're settling in and address problems if they arise.

What's an ATO?

Even if you had fish, I wouldn't bother with an automatic feeder.


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## Roger That

I agree with Zimmy...wait till you get back to add the fish. I also coordinated the timing of adding my stock until after getting back from a vacation a couple of months ago. I wouldn't bother with the feeder either, they can easily go without any food for a week or more.

But you will need to figure out how to keep feeding the tank while you are gone so you don't wind up starting the cycle over again. You should only need to add ammonia once in the five days you are gone on the third day after you add a dose the day you leave. You could put your ammonia dose in a small bottle already measured and have someone just throw it in the tank on the third day.


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## fltekdiver

ATO = auto top off

Thanks, I'll wait then, it will be less stress for me, then adding them and leaving for vacation


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## fltekdiver

fltekdiver said:


> Ok, I just added 110 more drops of ammonia to 2.0ppm again, Let's see how long it takes to break it down


4 days later, still moving slow

Ammonia = 1.0ppm

Nitrites = 0.50ppm


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## fltekdiver

As of 11/17/15

Ammonia is 0.50ppm

Nitrites 0.25ppm

Took about 6 days to go from 2.0ppm Ammonia to 0.50ppm


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