# Ocellatus Gold aggression



## Notorious (Jun 6, 2013)

Hey guys so I got 6 Ocellatus gold about 2 weeks ago. Already 2 are being picked on more than the others and are unable to hold a territory. I have separated these two. My question is these two fish are smaller than the rest. Does this mean they are female? The others are close in size does this means they are all males? Should I go ahead and sell off the outcast or will that kill my chance of getting a pair or trio? Comments?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

What are the dimensions of the tank they are in, and what else is in with them?


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## Notorious (Jun 6, 2013)

It is a standard 29 the golds are housed with some sailfin mollies. Sorry forgot to include that.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

THe smaller size doesn't indicate sex, but you might have better luck removing the bully rather than the victims.

How many shells do you have for them? Any site breaks or non-shell hiding spots?


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## Notorious (Jun 6, 2013)

The problem is the bully(s) is(are) the remaining 4 fish. These two are the subordinate and the least dominate. They get picked on by everyone. The remaining 4 seem to have each claimed a spot in the tank and although they bicker nobody is being picked on excessively. They all seem to be relative equals. I was just worried if the remaining 4 would end up all males because of them being more dominate. Each remaining 4 in the 29 has 3 shells each to claim. The tank is split into 4 territories with 2 sight barriers.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Do you know how old these fish are? Do they appear full grown?

I' suggest that you round up the other four into another tank for a couple days, add in another ~10 shells, divided among the four territories. Rearrange a bit, and see if you can create a few safe haven areas higher in the tank. Then add in the two subdominant fish and let them get settled for a couple of days before adding in the other 4. With the 2-week time frame that you've had them, I'm worried that it's too early to completely separate the group. A few pictures of the fish/tank might get you a few more suggestions too.


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## Notorious (Jun 6, 2013)

Thanks Ttiscuit that means I will have to order more shells which will take some time. Here is a video I shot yesterday if this helps at all.

[youtube]Link Removed by Moderator [/youtube]


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

That is a very poor song selection for your video.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Agreed. I have removed the link to the video, but please repost after your accompaniment is G-rated. opcorn:


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## Notorious (Jun 6, 2013)

Sorry if the song offends people it was picked at random. I was hoping someone would be able to help me from the video but I guess that is not possible. Luckily I was able to find my camera to post pictures. The pics are of only the two fish near the front of the tank unfortunately. I will try to get pictures of the others. These two are my suspected males because of their bold behavior and slightly larger size compared to the other two(if I put my finger too the glass one of them will actually try to bite me through the glass).
Fish #1













































Fish #2













































The reason why I am hesitant to include the other two fish is because these guys seem to have worked out a system and although they do bicker no one fish gets picked on. On a side note the two other golds I have separated in a breeder box and ironically one of the fish attempts to bite my finger through the box and the other does not. I am sure this is not an accurate way of sexing these guys however.


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## Phildo (Jul 29, 2004)

Despite popular belief, and this is just in my experience, occelatus do not tend to breed in colonies. You will be much happier with 1 or 2 pairs in seperate areas than trying to engineer a colony (which can be done with enough effort). They are just much more territorial and different all around than colony breeding shellies, in my experiences with them at least.


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## Notorious (Jun 6, 2013)

Thank you Phildo for your response. I would actually ideally like to see 2 pairs in this tank which I realize is a stretch. Everything I have read says that is impossible but most tanks I have seen are not aquascaped like my tank is. They seem too open honestly. We will see I will be happy with whatever the fish decide to allow. By the way I was nosy and peeked through your fish on photobucket they look amazing and the scape looks nice too!

@Triscuit - what is your experience with ocellatus golds? Not to discredit you in any way bit when I added more shells to the tanks with these guys they tend to want to claim more shells which causes more problems because they end up expanding their territory. The less shells I have the more likely it is for each gold to stay in their zone.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

I have bred occies, stapps, brevis, and multies... I found that when I had over aggressive harem breeders at a young age, more shells were helpful until they were old enough to breed. I'm sure other folks have had different experiences, and each fish is as likely to disprove a theory as it is to conform to expectations. 

Because of the short amount of time, and the size difference between the bullies and the rejects, I'm sticking with my advice. If you have 4 males that have happily settled in, and you've removed the females... you won't have a colony, harem or pairs. :fish:


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## Notorious (Jun 6, 2013)

Fair enough... I have ordered about a dozen escargot shells and re arranged the tank again. I could only remove 3 of the fish but that should be fine. The two rejects have been put in the tank and will stay until the new shells arrive. That should give them around 5 days to settle. Thanks for the advice will update everyone as things progress.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Please update us with your observations... it'll be useful to hear your results.


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## Notorious (Jun 6, 2013)

So the additions of the shells and the re-scaping did not really solve the problem but did help a little. The same 2 fish are being picked on and are not allowed to claim a shell on the bottom of the tank. but they are not cowering and are eating and growing so they will remain in the tank. They seem to simply stay high on the rocks. Besides that everyone seems to be growing and doing well. The golds on these guys are really starting to pop. I will post a pic of the new re-scape later today.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Thanks for the update... hopefully they'll settle in.


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