# Synodontis Multipunctatus Keep Dying



## kirkw12 (Jun 20, 2016)

I have a 120g cichlid tank that has been cycled and stocked now for about a month. Shortly after I cycled the tank I put a year old synodontis eupterus in when stocking the cichlids. About a week later he got what I assumed was ich (white dots). I quarantined him to attempt to treat but he died a day or two later. I never treated the 120g tank because the cichlids seem fine (except for a little excessive flashing???). So about a week later I decided to get the multis. I started with 3 and all seemed fine. But then a week later they all started dying one after the other and all dead now. I did notice a few ich spots on them as well. What course of action should I take now that I don't have any visual ich outbreaks? I really want to get more multis but I want to do all I can to prevent any more deaths. Parameters are ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrates 30, pH 7.8. 50% water changes weekly. Please help if have any suggestions. Thanks.


----------



## My2butterflies (Jul 31, 2016)

You need to treat for ich. Ich can't be treated while it is on the fish(what you see is a cyst the fishes skin forms around the ich parasite) so never take a fish out to treat it. The ich is in your water, gravel, on plants, ect. 
Your nitrates are high so do a water change. I'd do at least 50% this serves two purposes. Lowers the nitrates and helps lower the number of parasites in the water.

I'd do a heat and treat approach. Turn the heat up to 82-84 and salt the tank. The heat speeds up the ich life cycle and the salt will kill it. I had great success doing this just this month.

If you can hold off on a water change for a week after treating to be sure the ich is gone. With the heat up its life cycle should be down to 4 days roughly.


----------



## kirkw12 (Jun 20, 2016)

I already started raising the Temps yesterday to get started. How much salt per gallon should I add? Do I add all at once? I actually have one multi that is still alive that I thought had died (hadn't seen him in a while and the last time I did he didn't look good).


----------



## My2butterflies (Jul 31, 2016)

I had to look up the type of fish that is. Being a cat you can do one of two things. 
Add 1-2tbs of salt per 5 gals. I put roughly 3lbs of salt in my 75. Supposidly this type of fish can handle salt if it is put in a little at a time. Split the dose up so you add 1/4 of the salt to be added once every 12hrs. I also liked to leave the salt sit in a bucket of tank water for a few hours before adding it to the tank.

Or you could go pick up a med meant to kill ich that is safe for scaleless fish. And then follow its directions.

I've never treated any cats for ich using salt so I'm not able to say from experience how safe it is. But from what I read it is ok, but you might want to decide for yourself if it's what you feel comfortable doing.


----------



## kirkw12 (Jun 20, 2016)

Ok thanks for your help.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would try posting pics on www.planetcatfish.com. I've never had a syno get sick, IDK how susceptible they are to ich but I do not some cichlid cures can be more dangerous for Synodontis.


----------



## kirkw12 (Jun 20, 2016)

So I've been treating the ich in the tank with salt and heat for about 8 days now. I no longer see any visual signs on any fish. I did however have 2 fish die over the past week. One yellow lab and one albino socolofi. Both were dead lying on the bottom on separate mornings. I observe my fish daily and didn't notice any bizarre behavior the night before. The bodies/fins showed no signs of abuse either. The ph is 7.8, ammonia still 0, nitrite 0, and nitrates are about 30 (but I'm due for another water change). Is there anything else that I can test for? I recently tested my kh and gh. Kh is 5 and Gh 11. I read that this is somewhat low but I didn't think that would cause any deaths. So far since stocking the tank I've lost about 6 fish. Which has been about a month. Is it normal to loose a few juvenile fish?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Not that many...usually if new fish are going to die for me, they didn't look too good upon arrival and they are gone the next day.

So the search for symptoms begins...is every fish eating every day? Do all the fish excrete thick, food colored feces? Anyone that lurks under the surface or behind intakes or heaters fairly regularly?


----------



## kirkw12 (Jun 20, 2016)

Shortly after stocking the tank I had a couple of acei's that stayed near the spray bar in the corner. Don't remember them coming out to eat much either. I lost both of them a couple weeks back. One of my yellow labs had a rock crevice that he stayed near but he still ate sometimes. However he seems to be the one that died a few days ago. I have a couple of maingano that I see hidden under a rock a lot but they always come out for food. My pleco almost never comes out of hiding during the day. He stays in a cichlid rock. As far as feces it's hard to say. I have about 35 fish in there in 5 species. I've definitely seen several of them pooping and the feces looked normal. I've seen excrement from both the larger and smaller ones.

Just out of curiosity how much should I be feeding this many juvenile cichlids? I use small api sinking pellets supplemented with some tetra cichlid flakes. I also give them 2 cubes of bloodworms about once a week. I feed 2-3 times daily and they tear through what I give them in no time. I would say I do about 1/2tsp each feeding.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Since you have mbuna in there...stop the bloodworms. Feed a low protein food with high quality ingredients. I like the sinking pellets and feed them exclusively. Unless your fish are < 1.5" including tail...one time daily is fine and what they can eat in 30 seconds. How big are they?

The ones that hide higher up in the tank are the ones that may be being harassed. Mbuna will always hide in the rocks so that is normal.

You do want to try to see every fish eat every time. This is the #1 thing you can do to monitor health. Also that's how you know when someone is holding. Feed at opposite corners and watch carefully. You will miss a couple every time...but you will watch next time for the particular fish you did not see eat this time.

Bloat could be suspected. Maybe the acei started the ball rolling...once that happens it moves through the tank...one fish every couple of weeks. They don't all show symptoms at once...just the one who is the sickest at the moment of observation. All the rest will seem fine.

I would try to catch a fish with the thread clear/white feces for confirmation, then treat the tank with metronidazole. What are the dimensions of the 120G. 35 mature fish might be OK in a 72" tank but likely too many for a 48" tank. Maybe you will weed out extra males as they mature.


----------



## kirkw12 (Jun 20, 2016)

My largest are getting close to 2". This morning when I fed I think I saw everyone eat at least one bite. They didn't all come rushing to the surface though. A couple stayed close to the bottom looking more lethargic. I'll stop the bloodworms.

I'm absolutely thinning out some males once they mature. My tank is a 60". I hope to end up with about 25 and a good m/f ratio of each.


----------

