# NitrAte war rages on for me =(



## greenladdy (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi everyone. My 7 month old 90 gal African cichlid tank is probably overstocked (25 fish.) I realize there are lots of fish in there, but I don't mind regular cleanings. Well, my nitrates are off the chart. The test turns DARK RED almost immediately after shaking the tube after the 2nd drops are added. I've been doing 40% water changes every week for 2 months and the conditions haven't changed. I clean my Rena Filstar 3 basket filter about once every month too. I have that black/gray sand substrate and when I do a WC I try to agitate the sand after taking any gunk off the top layer. The sand is pretty deep (about 2 inches.) I know this is bad, but I just added the amount the guy at the LFS told me to. I also remove all rocks and ornaments for every other WC. I just can't get my nitrates down! :-?

I purchased Instant Oceans Nitrate Reducer and double dosed yesterday. I will do the same in a week. Live plants are a no go in my tank. Am I missing something? I feel like with the amount of work I've been putting into the tank, I should see results. I don't know what skimmers are, but I don't really want to add anything else to my set up. I heard some sort of algae house filter may work too, but I feel like many other people don't need to mess with this stuff. Any advice for a struggling noob? I just feel like I must be doing something wrong. Thanks! :fish:


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## greenladdy (Jul 31, 2011)

Here's my tank btw.


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

My first thought would be to up the % of water you change each week. To my knowledge that is the best and most economical way to keep Nitrates in check. If 40% isnt doing the job try doing some 60% WC's and see where your at then. Eventually you will have it in check. You could even do 40% a couple times a week to catch up and then figure out your WC schedule from there.

Also are you vacuuming the substrate at all? That can help to get a lot of that mulm out of there and in the rock piles/decorations.

Hope you get it under control.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would do 30% every other day for a week and then start increasing the amount of water changed (still every other day) until nitrites are under 20ppm. Keep an eye on the reaction of the fish because you may have "old tank syndrome" and the change in osmotic pressure can bother the fish if it is too abrupt.

You would want to be sure you carefully match your temperature and pH when doing large water changes.

Once you have the nitrates down to 20ppm I would experiment to see how often I have to change 50% to keep the nitrates between 10ppm and 20ppm.

I normally do 75% weekly.


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## greenladdy (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks guys. Wow! You do a 75% WC each week? Do you add bacteria when finished? I'm so scared that if I do more WCs than I've been doing that I'll end up killing my bacteria, then have to go through cycling all over again!

Here's another question. Each time I change water (e.g 20 gallons) I add the appropriate amount of Lake Malawi Cichlid Salt (1 and 1/2 teaspoons I think.) My LFS guy told me this promotes healthy fish and buffers the water to the correct pH. I also add 2 or 3 capfuls of Prime (periodically) to condition the 80 degree tap water I'm putting in. Is this correct? Should I be doing more? Less?

Thanks for any help you can give! - Ryan


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## greenladdy (Jul 31, 2011)

I do think I have Old Tank Syndrome by the way. None of my fish have grown in months and their colors aren't as brilliant.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2011)

your bacteria is in your filter media not in the water.. you can change 100% of the water and not kill the bacteria


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

just to add,typically you would only need to add prime when doing a water change,somewhere around a cap and a half
you might also have nitrates in your tap water?
adding plants is another way of reducing nitrates


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## Tadgo (Jul 31, 2011)

You mentioned skimmers. Thats for protien and I have never seen one used on a freshwater tank.

Don't know how much room you have under your tank but and idea might be to put a 10-20 gallon rufuge under your stand with java moss or java fern. both are low light and don't take much to care for. You'd have to change your plumbing a bit and set it up so that it didn't siphon your tank if power is lost.

Just my $.02

Got a nice looking tank though.


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

Can you reduce the amount of food you give them?


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

And knocking the temp down a little should slow their metabolism a little, I see there is auratus and kenyi, might help keep them in line too.


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

+1 for 75% a week. I live on well water which has anywhere from 10-20ppm of Nitrate right out of the tap. I do at least 75% a week (basically, lower it down to the heaters which are close to the bottom. It's probably closer to 85%), and I'm able to keep the nitrates in check. Every few months it start to creep up over 30ppm, so I'll do that same 80% water change every couple of days until it gets back down.

To be honest, it doesn't take THAT much more time to do a bigger water change , especially if you use a python (if not, get one! Especially with that size tank). It will definitely help!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

greenladdy said:


> Hi everyone. My 7 month old 90 gal African cichlid tank is probably overstocked (25 fish.) I realize there are lots of fish in there, but I don't mind regular cleanings. Well, my nitrates are off the chart. The test turns DARK RED almost immediately after shaking the tube after the 2nd drops are added. I've been doing 40% water changes every week for 2 months and the conditions haven't changed. I clean my Rena Filstar 3 basket filter about once every month too. I have that black/gray sand substrate and when I do a WC I try to agitate the sand after taking any gunk off the top layer. The sand is pretty deep (about 2 inches.) I know this is bad, but I just added the amount the guy at the LFS told me to. I also remove all rocks and ornaments for every other WC. I just can't get my nitrates down! :-?
> 
> I purchased Instant Oceans Nitrate Reducer and double dosed yesterday. I will do the same in a week. Live plants are a no go in my tank. Am I missing something? I feel like with the amount of work I've been putting into the tank, I should see results. I don't know what skimmers are, but I don't really want to add anything else to my set up. I heard some sort of algae house filter may work too, but I feel like many other people don't need to mess with this stuff. Any advice for a struggling noob? I just feel like I must be doing something wrong. Thanks! :fish:


Reduce feeding, reduce the sand layer to maybe half an inch. Don't use the additives like the nitrate reducers. Water changes are a big part of the ansywer. Do, 30% or so daily for a while until you get it under control. You can change more, but first check your pH and KH. You don't mention these parameters or if you're adding buffers. If you're pH is very low, major water changes can be risky. See Old Tank Syndrome.

Just curious how you're keeping that tank so algae free with all those nitrates?


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

prov356 said:


> Just curious how you're keeping that tank so algae free with all those nitrates?


I've seen that before, as well. Visited my sister and brother -in-law in Calgary a few years back and they have a 25 gal. with small community fish. They were pretty proud of the fact the tank looked so clean-----not one speck of algae. Tested the tank for nitrate and it was way off the chart; well over 100 ppm. Convinced my brother in law to start making small water changes, and gradually change larger amounts.

Different levels of nutrients, as well as amount of lighting, will favour certain kinds of algae. I suspect that algae that thrives with very high nitrate levels, requires a higher amount of light then is being provided in some aqauriums. Such high levels of nitrate are possibly detrimental to many species of algae(?). Or under such conditions, phosphate becomes less available to the alage(?).


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## greenladdy (Jul 31, 2011)

Well, I did a 40% wc Saturday night, then added 2x the needed amount of Instant Ocean Nitrate Reducer (which says works in fresh water too somehow.) Today I did a 50-60% wc and my nitrates are finally coming down! Somewhere between 20 and 40. Like a horrendous scientist, I can't say why they came down. Perhaps it was just the water changes (but I've been doing them regularly) or maybe it was the IO NR? I guess I manipulated two variables in my controlled experiment! I'm just happy they seem to be coming down. Thank you all very much for your help! :thumb:

To answer the algae question... When my Nitrates first got INNSANELY BAD, I had algae growing everywhere on everything. I got some Algae-cide stuff and add it 1x per week now. Algae hasn't been back. (Which I'm sure the pleco and cichlids are annoyed by.) 

Hopefully the nitrates continue to fall. My only weird value today was a lower pH than I'd seen previously (7.6 ish.) I've always had around 8.0. I gotta research this as someone mentioned it before with Old Tank Syndrome. I'm hoping I can just add more cichlid salt and it will bring it back up a bit. Dunno bout that though. :-?

Thanks again! :fish:


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

greenladdy said:


> Algae-cide


Oh, that explains.....though it doesn't explain my example.

Not too sure algae-cide is really a good idea(?).And I'm not so sure nitrate reducer is really much of a solution either, as levels of nitrates may reflect levels of other, possibly more toxic metabolites, and may not be the main problem, in and of itself(?). Ultimately, I think larger water changes are the solution to your nitrate problem.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

you should be adding buffer with each water change as well.. unless your tap water comes out 8ish then you dont need to.. i like algae on everything but the glass.. makes the tank look more natural plus gives your fish something to snack on

if you do a 50% water change then your nitrates should be cut in half.. my 125 gallon male show tank is very very overstocked i have over 60 adults and 30 juveniles of different sizes in probly 90 gallons of water thats actually in there.. being as 125 gallon tank only holds 100 gallons of water with nothing in it. so subtract the rocks and substrate theres probly less than 90 gallons in there.. and my nitrates never go over 40ppm with a weekly wc taking out 48 gallons exactly and all the fish are happy.. but what works for me might not work for everyone else


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You don't want to reduce pH (or KH) by more than 0.02 at a time. Thus the suggestion for smaller water changes initially.

So now that you have reduced 0.04 don't bounce it back up. Steady is more important than perfect.

A little baking soda with each water change so it creeps back up would be good. What is the pH of your tap water?


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