# new member, quick question. 30 -> 75/90 question



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

my current tank is a 30 (36" wide) stocked with:

6 penguin tetras
3 rummynose tetras
4 corys with 2 more on the way once they grow bigger
1 Pleco
2 keyhole cichlids
~10 plants in the substrate, some floaters. eco complete on the bottom, gravel on top.

tank is going great so far amonia/nitrites are always 0 and nitrates no more than 10ppm.







anyway, i still wanted to get a angelfish/ram tank and i was thinkin that it might be easier in stead of having 2 very very similar tanks to combine them into one larger one. i know that all these fish have similar requirements so could they all do well together?

what i would *like * would be something like 6-10 penguins 10 rummynose, 6-8 corys, the 2 keyholes i already have, 3-4 bolivian rams 1:2 or 1:3 m/f ratio if i can, and ~6 angels.

id like to go with a 48" tank so id only be really gaining a foot of length. hopefully thats enough room to add a few rams to the keyholes/corys that i have now. my keyholes pretty much stay close to the bottom most of the time (unless they are searching for food)

also taller is better with angels so would the 90 be better or would the 75 be fine?

thanks in advance, *** learned so much from this forum. i really appreciate you guys :thumb:


----------



## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Normally I prefer 75's over 90's ... with only two exceptions, discus and angels. To really get full height with the angel's fins, I would deffinately go with the 90 if building a tank around them.

I would deffinately go with at least 10-12 penguin tetras though, they are one that can be a touch nippy towards long finned angels unless kept in a decent sized school, 6-8 just doesn't seem to be enough.

Though your tank is excellantly aquascaped though, so I hope you try to squeeze in both tanks! :thumb:


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

yeah i was figuring that the tallest would be the best but since a 90 was only 3 inches taller it almost doesnt seem worth it.

good to know about the penguins, rummynose are so much nicer i figured id reather have a larger school of them. maybe i can squeeze 12 of each.

dont worry, if i upgrade the new tank will look very similar to this one....


----------



## iplaydrums1 (Apr 16, 2008)

*** seen the angels get kind of aggressive when they get older. not overly, but if you have smaller fish you might want to just keep an eye out.

you also would have a large tank, with a possible large school, so i doubt you would have such a big problem with it, and plants always work best for hiding im sure youve found.


----------



## iplaydrums1 (Apr 16, 2008)

*** seen the angels get kind of aggressive when they get older. not overly, but if you have smaller fish you might want to just keep an eye out.

you also would have a large tank, with a possible large school, so i doubt you would have such a big problem with it, and plants always work best for hiding im sure youve found.


----------



## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

jcushing said:


> yeah i was figuring that the tallest would be the best but since a 90 was only 3 inches taller it almost doesnt seem worth it.


You'd be surprised how much of a difference that few inches makes. My 90gal is next to my 75gal, and you really can see the difference. I'd say do a 90gal if you can as well, the angels will love the extra height.


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

k an update, scratch the 75/90 idea,hows a 110 sound 

i found a nice deal on a beautifull used oceanic brand 110 with stand. its 60" x 18" x 23.5". .5" glass with a .5" x 8" solid glass center brace and a full oak stand.

with the extra foot of floor space, this should make for a nice tank, what do you guys think for stocking angles, keyholes, bolivian ramsm tetras and corys

thanks in advance...


----------



## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

well if its 110 now then u can do 8 rams ( depending on what one gold-balvainion-blue ram or what ever there called lol. and go woth 8 angel try to mix up the colors tho. and 12 corys and switch the tetras up to 14 to 18


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

k got the tank all cleaned up and ready to go, bought another bag of eco-complete to supplement what i already have in the 30 to line the bottom of the tank (sitting in the tank in the pic). on-top of that will be a gravel play sand mix. i plan on picking up 1 LARGE piece of driftwood to go with what i have now.

more stocking questions, i happened to see a pair (meaning 2 i dunno m/f) of what were labeled as Juruparis at the LFS, they were still small, maybe ~4". My PH has always been very stable between 7.4-7.6 wich seems to be the upper end of juruparis range but from what *** read it seems doable, now that i think of it its just out of the rummynose's range too but they have fantastic coloration im my tank so it should be fine right?

so anyway would these guys be too much as in too many cichlids? id rather start out lightly stocked then too heavily stocked.

2 Jurupari
say 4-5 bolivian rams (basically thats all they have at the LFS) 
the 2 keyholes i have now wich are almost fullgrown
5-6 angels (id get em small to start) 
then say 15 penguin tetras, 15 rummynose
8-12 corys of the same type (i have 5 adolfoi now)

heres a pic of the tank. im still waiting on a canister filter (cascade 1500) a heater and a glass hood to show up. once the glass hood is on i will be fabbing up some CF ligthing fixtures so dont mind the ghetto lights. the only thing stopping me from transferring the fish i have now in the 30 into this tank is the lack of a hood. i dont want to loose any from something as stupid as them jumping cause i was anxious.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I don't know about mixing satanoperca species with rams. I have seen it done, but the rams stayed high in the tank, instead of down on the substrate. Also jurupari do reach between 10" to 12" TL, so would outcompete the smaller rams for food and prime location in the tank.

It's good to have a large piece of driftwood in the tank, but I'd still look at having some smaller pieces as well. This helps to create many line of sight breaks. Also larger earth eaters do move a lot of substrate and will readily uproot plants unintentionally and mix up your substrate, so the eco-complete will be mixed to the surface. From experience. :roll:


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

DeadFishFloating said:


> It's good to have a large piece of driftwood in the tank, but I'd still look at having some smaller pieces as well. This helps to create many line of sight breaks.


if i add 1 large piece that would mean id have 4 total 1 med 2 smaller and 1 large

if the eartheaters wont mesh well i wont get them, but they are a neat fish and would look really nice in a tank like this. it would be nice to have a couple larger fish since everything else in here besides the angels are dwarfs.

anyone else have any experience with eartheaters and rams?


----------



## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

I told you how I feel about em' last night in chat - and I don't think they're true jurupari.

Anywho, the worst that can happen is you have to pull the fish and return them to the LFS for store credit on some food later on...

Problem with this hobby is - it's a lot easier to tell you what possibly won't work then what possibly will work, and stay on the conservative side. But if you want to gain any type of real experience, you need to experiment on your own after doing research and weighing out your options with true compatibility.

Overstocking tanks with SA's is more of a water quality issue than an aggression issue IMO.

I've got 6 full grown bolivian ram living peacefully in a 29 gallon tank, 2 males and 4 females - if I were to post that up on here everyone would tell me it can't be done.

In the end it boils down to how much money you have to burn and how good your netting skills are


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

my netting sux, i have a refugee tiger barb in my SA tank cause he was chased out of my daughters 10g, i went to put him back in and i couldnt for the life of me get him..... (with a full tank anyway)

so last night you said you didnt see any problems, just to add the rams tetras and corys first so i was a bit confused said it might not work this morning....


----------



## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

I think DeadFish is assuming that the jurupari you're seeing are true Satanoperca, but they're really rare in the states.


----------



## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

They probably are Satanoperca, just _Satanoperca leucosticta_ instead of _Satanoperca jurupari_. The hobby "jurupari" you see in almost every lfs in the states is really leucosticta as *DBS* stated, the true jurupari are very rare in the hobby.

Regardless of which one it is, I would skip it. Not because of tank size, but Satanoperca like being in large groups. And large groups of 10" fish wouldn't leave much space for anything else even in a 180 gallon.


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

well the new tank is up and running, transfered everything over yesterday, tank is still a little cloudy so ill be doing 10% WC every other day or so till it clears up. so far no ammonia or nitrite, and nitrates are obviously ridiculously low so it looks like i was able to keep most of my bacteria going.

everyone was fine and dandy yesterday, swimming around acting normal and eating. today my female keyhole is acting wierd (swimming real close to the bottom as clost to plants and DW as possible) and my male is hiding in the upper corner of the tank behind the intake tube for the cannister filter. i think the tank is just too big open and new. i didnt add any new rocks or driftwood or plants so its really sparse looking. i know keyholes are shy so i hope they will adjust. i thought it might be the water but its been a constant 79 (same as last tank) 7.6ph (also same as last tank, its what my tap water is) and 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5 nitrate.

anyway heres a pic, no backround yet (ill get black put up soon) and liek i said its still a bit cloudy, normally my water is pretty clear.


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

old setup (i added sand after this picture was taken)



new tank with basically all the same plants, DW and substrate (dont mind the flash)



male keyhole hiding



female, kinda "stuck" to the bottom


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I think the keyholes are just stressed out. I used to have a pair and whenever they got spooked, the male would go and hide in the top right corner behind the filter tubes and internal pump, while the female hid under a log, which was fine when she was small, but as she got older, she'd be lying on her side under the log.

The tank definately will need more driftwwod and plants for the fish to settle in.


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

a little better, its hard finding really nice large pieces in stores around here, i think i might need to go out looking somewhere else



the females been swimming around somewhat normal lately (shes in the upper left corner), males still really skittish. he came out when i put the 2 new pieces of DW inand seemed ok but went back to hiding.

do you think more fish would help or just add more plants at this point?


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

> do you think more fish would help or just add more plants at this point?


Do you have any tetras and corydoras catfish in there? If not I'd add a school of 12+ Rummynose tetras and 8 or so corydoras to start with.

And I still add more driftwood and plants.

Here's my first attempt.


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

i was planning on waiting a few days before i got any more fish just so i could keep an eye on the water parameters.

i currently only have 3 rummynose 6 penguins and 4 corys. i know thats pretty laughable numbers now but it was fine in the 30. ill pick up 10 more of each if i can find any local in stock. (not all at once, duh)

looks like ill be raiding my 10 gallon for some more plants tomorrow morning.


----------



## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

Just take it slow dude - a lot of people make the mistake of stocking their tank right off the bat then come across all kinds of new complications because they didn't do enough research on everything.

I say add one or two species at a time until you're satisfied with the contents - over a few months time.


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

k just picked up 12 more rummynose, 5 tall plants for the back and a really large peice of driftwood to replace one i got yesterday, the keyholes immediately fell in love with the new piece, i think they called dibs... ill post a pic later tonight when i do another waterchange.

still 0,0,10 for water parameters :thumb:


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

> and a really large peice of driftwood to replace one i got yesterday


Replace or re-arrange? The more driftwood the better, I hope you have both pieces in the tank.

Otherwise things sound good.

Now hurry up with those pics.


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

no i replaced, trust me theres enough in there  the new ones a beast 

rummynose settled in great, i acclimated them for an hour, and they all have full color. in the LFS they didnt look that great, very little color, but they were swimming healthy so i took a chance. They all school together really nice and really fill out the top half of the tank. the penguins seem to school more (they just kinda huddled together before). now i have just over 20 tetras that scool (2 seperate schools) and i dont think im going to add any more penguin's. id like to leave room for angels up top.

anyway heres the pics

before ( i didnt like the piece i added all the way on the right, so i swapped it,


after tank shot, you can see the 5 taller plats i added in the back row and the much larger DW on the right


new DW, side angle so you can see the nooks and caves it forms on the bottom


very happy keyholes now, they seem to have claimes the top section


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Very nice *jcushing*. And that new piece is awesome... :thumb:

Still I'd use the other piece to help bulk up the left end...


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

im going to let the plants fill in and go from there i think, i realized i just didnt like the other piece. ill keep my eyes open though when im out.

i went back and took another look at those juruparis, i still cant tell what they are, they look like they had lines though. im pretty sure that if i did get them i wouldnt be able to add any rams at all, just looking at the current layout , i cant imagine them 4-5" now, 10-12
later sharing with rams AND keyholes....

so i think in a week or so im going to add ~5 rams (as many as they have in the store) and just go from there. maybe in a month or so ill start lookin at some young angels and more corys if i can find more adolfis


----------



## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

so got some new additions, they only had 1 ram so i picked em up with the intention of getting 3-4 more when they get em in. since i only got 1 ram i picked up 5 small angels, 3 marbled, 1 silver/w black stripes, 1 white.

everyone loves pics






the ram is receiving a mixed welcome from the keyholes, sometimes they are fine, sometimes not so much, well see with time how it goes. the problem is he seems to like the area they keyholes already claimed so im going to add more plants and see if it helps.


----------

