# Setting up a new tank(s)



## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

Well, i just bought a 55 gallon tank. Im really wanting to put cichlids in it. Im torn between what type of cichlids to put in my tanks. I know water changes and what not are your friend, but is it possible to mix cichlid types as in african and south/central american cichlids?


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

Found my answer to mixing question. Nvm on that Any suggestions on what kind of cichlids then? And how many do you think i could keep comfortably in a 55 gallon?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

depends on the fish

i'd say figure out if you want a male hap/peacock, breeding peacocks, male mbuna, breeding mbuna, and so on, many possibilities, most common with 55's are 3 species breeding mbuna, or all male hap/peacock (about 9 fish is a good solid number)


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

Im not really looking into specific types of africans yet. *** just been browsing stores and really like the colors of some of the fish and how smart and entertaining cichlids are. Another question on mixing. I know some africans come from different regions in africa, can i mix those? Also dont know if i want breeders I dont really want to deal with all the fry at this moment. Maybe if there is a way i can sell them, but i dunno just right yet.


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

Also, whats the difference between all the species you listed? Im brand new to cichlids so the terms make me :-?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

mbuna are smaller yet agressive, males and females show color

haps can get quite larger, colorful males drab females

peacocks are mostly known for being more peaceful than the others, and very colorful males, very drab females

if you look at the profiles section you can search by malawi cichlids and then by mbuna, haps, or peacocks and it will provide a long list of fish for each group

most haps are too large for a 55 but a few can work

i would not suggest mixing fish from different lakes, with very few exceptions


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

What are the exceptions? Im looking for the smaller sized cichlids so it looks like haps will be out of the question.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

some of the lethrinops

Otopharynx lithobates

Placidochromis electra

are the one's i've looked into


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

im mostly going to be getting them from petsmart/petco (really the only good pet stores around my area). should i look at a different place?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

most of what they carry are mbuna, but it's realy hard to get a good answer as to what the actual species are when buying from them, you're going to have to do your research and know how to identify the fish you want


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## il0veCichlids (Nov 9, 2009)

petsmart have beautiful cichlids but it may be more expensive then specific FISH stores. (big als)


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## FSM (Nov 11, 2009)

Forget the Africans, gymnogeophagus are where it's at


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## GeneralBrackish (Oct 18, 2009)

You seem to want to only deal with smaller fish, so I suggest try west african childs......They come in many different shapes, sizes, and colors. The good thing with some west african cichlids(small or large) is that they can be mixed with some other type of fish such African tetras, Momyrids, African knifefish, Synodontis (catfish), African Butterfly fish, Killifish, Distichodus, Ctenopomas, and Bichirs.

All the fish listed above make good tankmates for West African fish simply because they generaly share the same water chemistry. :thumb:

I think you will enjoy these fish alot! :fish:


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i would say try to find a good smaller local store somewhere nearby, or find a place online to order from so you know what you're getting and can choose what you want

i can't really give you too much more advice until you come up with some species you would want to keep, then we can try and help you with a list


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

I did some looking and it looks like the species im gonna end up with is the lake malawi species. That species seems to have variety that i want. If i get lake malavi and decide on something else, maybe ill start another tank


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

that's not a species, thats a lake, there are litterally hundreds of species of ciclids within that lake


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

Oh well, ****. Hrmmm. What do you consider "species" then? cause thats sure as **** what i thought you meant :-? And i do appologize if i seem a bit on the slow side with this stuff.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/african_cichlid_genus_gallery.php

that link shows a list of a bunch of the genus of african cichlids, under each genus are various species


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

Thats some really tough decisions I guess its better for me to ask about mixing then. Are their certain species from lake malawi or other lakes that can not be mixed with cichlid species from that same lake? I would assume not sicne they life in the same **** lake, but, hey thats just me. Is there list that classifies Lake malawi cichlids into aggression categories? Or do I really need to narrow it down to species? I just dont want any mass murders or anything like that going on in the tank. CJ, i do appreciate all your help and your patience. YOu probably think im somewhat of an idiot


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

Also what are some good sites to order fish from?

Or would it be better to say that I would perfer mbunas and peacocks?


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

Hi knockout, 
I think it might be good for you to read some more about the African cichlids before jumping into them. Although it will require a little patience, it might actually enhance your whole experience with them to first learn a little about the lakes (Lake Tanganyika and Lake Malawi are gigundous lakes!), the habitats within the lakes (open sand, rocky, shells), the various types of fish and their habits, and how they might interact. African cichlids are really fascinating and an incredible example of evolution. You are not an idiot by any means! Everyone starts out being interested and then has to learn, so we've all been there. But by reading some more on this site I think you will be able to answer a lot of your more general questions. 
The library section of this site has a huge amount of info
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/
and if you find you like the Africans, I would read these articles
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/introduction_list.php

Another reason not to feel stupid is that there are literally hundreds of species of cichlids in each lake, and each of us only has experience with a few of them (some here are REALLY experienced though). I doubt there is anyone out there that doesn't have more to learn. As with any critter, you could spend a lifetime studying it and the more you know, the more interesting questions you will ask. It never ends, which is what makes science so fun :wink:

After reading a little on African cichlids in general, you could go to the profiles and start looking at photos and aquarium requirements. By doing all this, you will have a better chance of getting some fish you really *really *love, and a better chance of pairing them with some other neat fish, having a great habitat for them, and keeping them healthy. I caution you not to buy "mixed African cichlids" from PetSmart or PetCo. Everyone who does that ends up with aggressive fish that should never have been put together except in a tank of hundreds of gallons. 

--Angela


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

yeah i'd read some of the articles about some of the different malwai groups, you can get a lot of info about them that way, when it comes to agression, the ones classified as mbuna are the most agressive


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

Thanks for all the information guys. I will come back with some more questions/a set up and get your opinion once i read a bit. I really do appreciate the help!


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

Really quick question. It said that if youre going to be mixing cichlids, make sure they are around the same size or if you dont have them around the same size, make sure you offer enough food so their arent any fights. My question is, would a fish around the max size of 3-4 inches be find with a fish around the size of 5-6 inches?

Also, when you order from these sites (BGA and TFP) can you pick if you get a male and female when you are ordering pairs?


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

I think the size rule is probably most relevant to the really aggressive cichlids, which I would say are the African "mbuna" from Lake Malawi and many Central American cichlids. With others, it will vary by species. What most people advise is deciding on a fish you really like, and then people here can help you select good tankmates.

Some people like to keep males of several different mbuna species, which makes for a very active and colorful tank. Others keep the "Haplochromis" and "Peacocks" from the same lake--less aggressive but also extremely colorful. Others enjoy watching fish engage in more natural behaviors, so they may have just one male and several females and watch them raise young. The mbunas are very popular. I have never had them myself, but when I had a 100-gallon tank of Central American cichlids, I got tired of watching them chase each other around. :roll:

If you like the mbunas from Malawi, I would take every advantage of the experienced people here to select compatible species. There are some real nasty ones out there that will flat out kill the other fish in a tank once they mature, so best to start out right. You can either have an all-male tank with one each of many species, or select one beautiful species and have a harem and watch them raise young. or maybe have two species. I'm more familiar with the Tanganyikans, still learning about Malawi cichlids.

Most of the time, if you want pairs you start out by buying about six younger fish, and then after two pair up, you take the remaining males out (sometimes the extra females too) and return them to the fish shop or sell them. But you can definitely buy proven breeding pairs. Some fish are not easy to sex when young. There is always the chance that the pair may not stay together after being shipped to a new place though.

I guess that wasn't a quick answer! :lol: 
What's your favorite fishes so far?


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

I really love the peacocks and mbunas. The haps really arent my type of thing. I read that its alright to mix mbunas and peacocks as long as you give the mbunas the type of food they like and same for the peacocks. I think if i got a pair of peacocks, i wouldnt mind breeding those, but that would involve a few more tanks I dont think I would be really all that interested in breeding mbunas, maybe later on down the road when i have a good bit more space to work with. As you stated, other than the peacocks i want ( Aulonacara sp aleri ( i think? ) rubecense) i want a really colorful tank because thats what Im pretty much after with cichlids other than how intriguing they are. I also love the fact that you can get tons of colors with out having to fork out the money of a salt water set up

One more "quick" question  If I had a pair of peacocks, would it be fine to fill the rest of the tank with all male mbunas or will the mbunas gang up on the female peacock? Thats one thing i wasnt to sure about. Or **** I may even just get a seperate tank for the peacocks if i HAVE to.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

Doesn't sound like you should mix the peacocks with the mbunas:


> "Mbuna and Peacocks make poor tankmates primarily because Mbuna have a considerably more aggressive temperament (some would even say obnoxious). Their aggressiveness and hyperactivity have a tendency to stress the Peacocks. Keeping Mbuna together with Peacocks usually proves deleterious to the latter who are kept in a constant state of subordination. Some hobbyists who mix these two fish may argue that no such unfavorable conditions exist. This may sometimes appear superficially to be true, but Peacocks kept with Mbuna do not grow as fast, are less colorful, and do not live nearly as long. Peacocks removed from such an environment show dramatic turnaround within a short period of time, confirming the sensibility of this recommendation."


http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/peacocks.php
I would guess that any ill effects would be much more pronounced in a 55-gallon tank.

Here are two Malawi species lists from this site that were specifically developed for 55-gallon tanks. If you go to this link 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_55g.php 
each species is linked to its individual profile with photo. I just clicked on a few--it's hard to believe how beautiful these fish are. I think they are more interesting than marine fish.
If you went with one of these mixes, at least you would know it has been successful before.

*Smaller, Less Aggressive Mbuna Aquarium*

Select any 3 species (max 12 fishes):
â€¢ Metriaclima estherae
â€¢ Pseudotropheus saulosi
â€¢ Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei"
â€¢ Labidochromis sp. "Hongi"
â€¢ Labidochromis caeruleus
â€¢ Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt"
â€¢ Labidochromis chisimulae
â€¢ Iodotropheus sprengerae
â€¢ Cynotilapia afra
Do not mix any Labidochromis species.

*Larger, More Aggressive Mbuna Aquarium*

Select any 2 groups (max 10 fishes):
â€¢ Labeotropheus trewavasae
â€¢ Melanochromis johanni
â€¢ Tropheops tropheops
â€¢ Pseudotropheus elongatus
â€¢ Metriaclima pyrsonotos

I think you are right. Fill up the 55 with a group of mbunas, and buy the 120-gallon for the peacocks. well, there are so many do-it-yourself articles on how to make everything, you can probably do it for cheaper than you think. and there are many big tanks being sold on craigslist these days, depending on your location.

There are worse addictions 8)


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

Oh man. My fiance is gonna kill me. When were talking on the phone and i get silent shes like "Daniel, are you looking at those **** fish again?" "What? Oh no, i dunno what youre talking about  "

Now if im gonna fill the 55 with mbunas, i MIGHT want a breeding pair(s). If im keeping just a pair of peacocks, do they HAVE to be in a 120? Thats a bit big for the current space i have. I guess i need to do more reading on the peacocks

I read those lists, and seeing that they are just lists for cookie cutter set ups, i would assume that they are mixed with male and female?

I really appreciate your help!


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

practically every guy on here seems to complain about his spouse interfering with his hobby. And then next thing you know she's wanting you to help raise a little baby! At least fish don't scream and cry in the middle of the night. 8) I think the women are just jealous that the men are paying more attention to a hobby than they do to them. Show her affection, tell her she has to help pick out a few fish and help decorate the tank and maybe she'll come around.

You've reached the end of my knowledge regarding Malawi cichlids; I am still learning about the peacocks, mbuna, and haps. I was never really interested in keeping them before now because I liked the Tanganyikans so much. :fish: I might wait until I have a bigger tank though. My first goal is to set up this 40-gallon breeder tank.

My guess is that for each species you would want one male and a few females so that the males don't endlessly harass one female, but I could be wrong.

Setting up a new tank is always a lot of fun.

well, I better finish working on this report for work since it's 1 am over here on the left coast. it's always more fun to talk about pets.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

with malawi you aren't shooting for pairs, but a group consisting of one male and multiple females, because a male will overbreed and kill a single female

i would not breed peacocks and mbuna in the same tank, unless the mbuna is a yellow lab, i don'tknow if there is anyhting else you can use, but i feel safe with a yellow lab


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

Thanks once again CJ. I might wait for a little longer and get a 75 gal and get a breeder set up and all of that stuff. I see there is a market for these things so it could definitely help out as well as being a pleasure Or i may just do a peacock tank instead of mbunas. I need to make up my mindddddd :dancing:


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

if you plan to keep fry it will be a bit more than just adding fish and going, you have to make sure you have a mix that is less likely to have cross breeding going on, you will also need additional fry tanks because the larger fish will eat the freshly released fry

also it's not so easy to get rid of fry, some stores take them and you usually get about 30% store credit, sometimes you can try to sell them to people, bu i don't find it to be easy, buti'm new to it, plus i am still waitingfor about 20 little suckers to get large enough to move


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## knockoutpbn (Nov 16, 2009)

I can see where that would pose a problem.

What are some species that are unlikely to cross breed? Or do you need more information from me as to what im looking at keeping?


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