# White growth, pic included



## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Hello,

Any idea what the white bulge on this T. meeki is? Everybody still looks good for now, have not had the fish for very long. I see similar spots on two other fish, does not look like ich IMO.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

PH- 7.8
KH should be 10-15
GH same as KH

Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate- 15


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

It's difficult to diagnose growths. Could be a tumor, cyst, growth stemming from a previous bacterial infection, lymphocystis, etc.
Have the spots been around for a while, (slow growing) or did they appear within a day or two? Is there any redness around the spots or in the center?


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I have not noticed it until yesterday. I did not notice any other spots/growths the first week or two. No redness in the center.
So can you suggest a plan of action? Are all of the things you said it could possibly be contagious? I am not so much worried about loosing the T. meeki as I am about the other fish in the tank with them.

I think I am going to pull and cull the three fish with spots.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Are they recent additions? If you have another tank you can try to treat them with antibacterials like Furan-2 or Kanamycin. I might try a daily 30 minute methylene blue bath as well, in a separate container.
If none of the above work then you could be looking at something viral like lymphocystis. In any case, I'd pull them.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Yes pretty recent, I bought them less than a month ago, probably 2-3 weeks. Two have paired up and are guarding eggs. I had to move around some tanks, so I ended up compiling two other tanks into the 125g with the meeki. I guess I need to treat the meeki regardless, as if one of the antibacterials clears the growth up then I will at least know what it was.

Should I try any type of precaution on the fish that are not showing any signs of illness? I have some C. cutteri "Rio Jutiapa" and some C. siquia "Rio Cabayo" grow outs in the 125g with them, those two groups of fish are my main concern. I'm going to be really upset to loose either of those.

I have a petsmart, other than that I would have to drive a few hours and I don't have time for that. I see Petsmart carries a few antibacterials, but I do not see the ones you mentioned. Are they all similar or would I be better off going with the ones you mentioned?
If you suggest I try to find Furan-2 or Kanamycin then I will order online. If we go that route, is there any other meds you suggest I pickup since I am paying shipping anyway? How long does one bottle last? I use the same nets for all of my tanks, and with my move I have mixed fish so if I have something there is a good chance I have spread it to more than one tank. In other words, my bad husbandry practices are going to have made it easy for this to spread.

Sorry for the disorganized post, trying to give you as much information as possible. I have been keeping fish for about 4-5 years and never had to deal with anything other than ich.

Appreciate your help, I know it gets old answering post like these.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Another bit of info:

A second fish has a similar white place on one of the pectoral fins. But its not circular or oval, its a line. Tried to get a clear picture, but no luck. A third fish has a white bulge identical to the original fish I posted pictures of, its just smaller.

I have a 20g long thats cycled, I can use that as an hospital. But I have 14 T. meeki, 8 Siquia sp. "Rio Cabayo", 30 red eye tetras, and 4 C cutteri "Rio Jutiapa". Not sure of a logical way to treat, and treating 125g is going to be pricey.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

You can try API Triple Sulfa for the meeki, I see it on the Petsmart site, I assume they have it in store as well. If not, I'd probably order online.
If you want to order more meds, it's a toss up between having what you need on hand and it possibly expiring, and not having what you need when you need it while waiting for it to arrive. Personally, I have a small store in my tank stand drawers. :roll: 
I'd be ok with using Pimafix as a preventative for the other fish, assuming that whatever the meeki have is bacterial, not strongly resistant and contagious.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

You made my heart drop when you said it could be Lympho. Is there any reliable way we can rule out Lympho? If I treat for a bacterial related illness and it heals up then is Lympho ruled out?

Honestly if its Lympho I will probably put down everything I have, bleach the tanks and start fresh when I get over it. I don't want to deal with that stuff.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

A shot in the dark, but I contacted my schools biology department asking if anybody would be willing to take a look at the fish. Probably slim chance, but it would be awesome if one of the professors offer to ID it.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

ahud said:


> You made my heart drop when you said it could be Lympho. Is there any reliable way we can rule out Lympho? If I treat for a bacterial related illness and it heals up then is Lympho ruled out?
> Honestly if its Lympho I will probably put down everything I have, bleach the tanks and start fresh when I get over it. I don't want to deal with that stuff.


If you see improvement from treating with an antibiotic, then yes, I'd say that lymphocystis has been ruled out. From what I know of the disease, nothing will cure it as it's viral. On the other hand, it's normally not fatal. The problems with it arise when a bacterial infection takes place because of it. So, periodic antibacterial treatments are all that's necessary for a fish with lymphocystis to live out it's life. Problems can arise depending on where the growths occur (eyes, gills, etc) and there are other considerations such as aggressive tankmates that can take advantage of a disabled fish.



ahud said:


> A shot in the dark, but I contacted my schools biology department asking if anybody would be willing to take a look at the fish. Probably slim chance, but it would be awesome if one of the professors offer to ID it.


That would be fantastic, taking the guesswork out of the illness. :thumb:


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

GTZ,

I can not start treatment until next thurs(going out of town), but I will update once I begin. If I hear anything back from the Biology department then I will update on that as well.

I have a bare bottom 20 long with cycled sponge filter. I'm going to move the three fish with the growths into the tank and treat with Kannaplex and Furan-2 at the same time. Is that the plan of action you suggested? Or is it Furan-2 OR Kannaplex?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

You can use both at the same time. It makes for a wider spectrum antibiotic.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Can I treat the 125g? Or will either medicine interfere with my filter?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

You can. Neither med is harmful to nitrifying bacteria, however it's good practice to periodically test water parameters while medicating.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

The bumps are spreading. Its random, but the most infected area seems to be the base of the dorsal and the base of the anal fin. Some have fuzzy white places on their ventral fins.

I can start treatment, but not sure if I want too. I have about 7-9 fish infected, in a group of 13. I may end up either trying to get some type of refund or freezing them.

Any thoughts?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Have you medicated with anything so far?


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I just broke in and moved 11 of them into a 20 long. So we will see how that goes I guess. I added the Furan-2 and kanaplex. I did not move one pair guarding free swimmers or the other fish in the 125g. None of the other fish are showing symptoms though.

I feel safe saying we can rule out injury, and anything that would be one fish specific (like a tumor).


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

GTZ,

I added Furan-2 and Kannaplex last night, and did the second dose of Furan-2 today. I have not 100% inspected the fish since there is no light on the tank. One fish had really bad growths on the mouth, those have turned from white to red. Is that any indication of something?

I'm still not through the treatment, but just wanted to see if the white growth to a bloody red looking area is a indicator of anything.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

To be honest, I don't know what that signifies. It could be a reaction to the meds or it could be a natural progression of whatever the growths are.
If it's a reaction, it's certainly sudden. I would still continue the treatment unless there are obvious signs of major distress from the fish. 
Are there any red streaks around or running away from the growths? New pic?


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Not that can I see. I will try to get a new picture up soon. The water is yellow due to the Furan-2 and the tank is light less. So I need to do a little rigging to get a decent picture.

I'm going to continue treatment. The other fish look fine, the fish with the mouth just had very big growths. To the point his mouth was not working properly. Tommorow is the water change, so that will clear the water and I will get some more pictures for you.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Sorry for the delay, I went out of town.

I got back to my place today and all of the white bumps have disappeared. The fish have holes in their dorsal fins where the white spots used to be. Everybody is looking healthy and ate good.

Just to recap I treated with Furan-2 and Kannaplex. The bumps turned red, one fish died. I continued treatment. Did a 90% water change. Came back a week later and the spots have cleared, leaving holes on the fins where they used to be. No holes on the body though.

The other fish in the 125g do not have any spots that I can see, so that makes me think there must be an infected fish in the tank in order for the bumps to spread?

So, GTZ what is your opinion on the situation now?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

You could be in the clear. Assuming that whatever they had is gone, I'd suspect that the original infected fish is no longer carrying as well. Time will tell.
Continued increased frequency of water changes will help their fins heal more rapidly. Continue to observe, breathe and maybe a quick, quiet clap to yourself. =D>


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

GTZ,

I have lost four fish, and two more have spots. Some of reddish looking spots, while others get the white spots that cause swelling.

I'm really debating between a complete clean or trying to figure this thing out. If I do a cleanse I will be loosing:
25+ Alfaro cultratus
30 Red eye tetras
30 beckfordi pencil fish
7 Siqua sp "Rio Cabayo"
two pairs of C. cutteri "Rio cabayo"
1m4f A. Cacatuoides

At what point do you continue trying to figure out what the illness is versus giving up and starting fresh? I have a decent amount of fish, but if I have to treat everything I am looking at almost as much money. Not to mention treating everything is not even a for sure thing.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I'm going to give up and start fresh. The more I read, the more it looks like lympho to me.

How should I go about sterilizing my tanks, substrate, driftwood, live plants, and rocks? Can I run the tank with a certain amount of bleach?

Thanks,
Aaron


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow, sorry for your losses.
It's certainly a tough call trying to decide when to throw in the towel and start fresh. Unfortunately, it's probably the right call if your diagnosis is correct in it being lymphocystis, although some fish can live with it without any problems, so long as they're given a bacterial treatment every couple of weeks.
To sterilize, I'd run the tanks with a 1:10 bleach to water mix. I'm not sure about the live plants, you'll have to get a second opinion or research it. I think you can do a water/bleach dip at a much higher dilution with plants, but I'm not 100%.
I'd run the tanks for a few days, occasionally stirring the substrate. After that, drain what you can from the tanks, refill and dose extra dechlor, somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3x the norm. Run everything for at least 24 hours, again, stirring the substrate every few hours. If you have one, test for chlorine after the 24 hours are up.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Hey, at least I get new fish? Silver lining lol.

I read about people draining most of the tank and just using using bleach on half the tanks volume.

I'm going to go that route on the 125g and just spray and wipe down the top of the tanks. I will still stir the subtrate and make sure the bleach touches everything in the tank. As far as the fx5 on that tank, how does ditching the media and cleaning the actual filter with bleach sound?

For the tanks in the fishroom, I'm going to mix half a 55g with a 10% bleach solution and add all of the sponge filters, heaters, and decor into that tank. Then drain the other 55g and the 20 long down to 2-3" above the substrate, add bleach and wipe down the sides.

Now comes the tricky part. I have a 29g with a ton of shrimplets. I think my plan of action is going to be to leave that tank alone until I get the other tanks done. Then I'll cycle a sterilized sponge filter, and move the shrimp to a clean tank once its cycled. Any idea of the shrimp will carry the virus?


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm really sorry you're having to cull your tank.  I've been watching this thread hoping to see some good news.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

ahud said:


> Hey, at least I get new fish? Silver lining lol.
> 
> I read about people draining most of the tank and just using using bleach on half the tanks volume.
> 
> ...


All sounds good to me. I'm afraid I don't know whether or not the shrimp can carry the virus, I would guess yes to be on the safe side unless you discover otherwise.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Storiwyr said:


> I'm really sorry you're having to cull your tank.  I've been watching this thread hoping to see some good news.


Thanks for the kind words. I feel a lot better now that I'm done with it. I learned a valuable lesson, QT, QT, QT! Never ever will I mix fish that have not been QTed for a month. All of this could have been avoided. I went a good 4+ years before I ran into something like this, I'm just glad it happened in a way that I did not have to loose a ton of money in fish or give the virus to somebody else if it was indeed Lympho.


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