# Oh me oh my... I now have fry!



## zablalbaz (Oct 7, 2016)

Hey All,

75Gallon - 4ft long aquarium

I noticed one of my P. Socolofi looked to be holding a few days ago. And today when I went to feed, I noticed that she appeared normal again. One of my kids looked around in the tank and found where the fry are hiding in a cave that the big male dug out a couple weeks ago. So, the question I have now is ... what next? I think I actually want to keep these fry since I have 3 Socolofi males and only one female in the tank. I know I want more females, but I am not sure if raising them is the way to go. I also have 3 yellow labs, a catfish, 3 OB peacocks, and 2 zebras in the tank. So those fry don't have too long for this world unless I do something soon I am guessing.

I have a hospital/breeder net that hangs on the inside of the tank. I can put that in there and try to catch the fry and save them. And/Or I have a ten gallon aquarium in another room that currently has no fish in it at all. The 10 gallon is set up, has the same PH, but has not had fish in it for a couple months now. Should I catch all the fry and put them in the other tank? Or keep them in the breeder/hospital net for a few days? How much time have I got by way of grace period before the adults start eating the young? Do I need to get them out right away?

Thanks!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They may be hybrids. If you decide you want to save them, I would remove the adults first (bucket) and then the rocks and then the fry. They will not survive in a breeder net in the adult tank so go with the 10G. Adults will eat the fry as soon as they are spit...especially anyone who is not the mom. She usually waits 24-48 hours.


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## zablalbaz (Oct 7, 2016)

Hybrids? Really? I thought that would just be a problem with the Zebras and the Labs? For some reason, I assumed the Socolofi would not breed with the other species. I don't know why I thought that.

FWIW: I don't think they are hybrids though as the big blue male is the only one that I have seen this female pair off with. But I suppose that could be the case....

If I have to rip the tank apart to get the fry out tonight, then they may just be doomed anyway. I won't have the time to do that until Saturday. 

Thanks for the tip!


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

It's OK, if they bred once, they will again. IMO, African cichlids breed faster then guppys. 
As DJR said, almost any African cichlid will breed with another causing hybrids, and they do not pair off. They only come together for a few moments to breed, and then that's the end of their relationship (or till they can/want to breed again).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The risk here is that there are not enough females. So everyone will be fighting over whatever female is available. If you had 1m:4f of each I would not have felt they could be hybrid suspects.


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## zablalbaz (Oct 7, 2016)

Yep. My LFS had only juvenile socolofi. So I bought 5 hoping there would be enough females. I think I ended up with only one though. There is another in there with the same vertical bars as my verified female, but it has not grown as fast as the others, and the bars are fainter. So I am not sure if it is a female or not. Furthermore, I am not even sure if the females always have dark bars. I'm just guessing. The Internet has pictures of females both with and without the bars. 

And when I said 'paired' I just meant that the big blue one was the only fish I saw near her at any time. In fact, he will not let any other fish in the tank approach her. I know that these fish do not pair off. Sorry for that.

I know I need to get more females, if nothing else then to prevent the male from killing the only verified female through being overly attentive. I am hoping that the LFS where I bought them can take the males as trade-ins on an adult female - if they have one that is. If not, I am going to have to purchase from an online store I guess - and pay the exhorbitant overnight shipping fees.

Thanks again for all the good info in this forum so far. My tank has really taken off. I followed all the guidlines for setting up and cycling the water. My water chemistry is fantastic and the fish are obviously healthy and happy.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Nice to hear. You will find cost/fish, even with shipping added in, is lower online than purchase at a LFS. But I don't see too many sexed adult socolofi females available very often. Females at peace have little barring.


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## zablalbaz (Oct 7, 2016)

HI DJRansome. Can you explain what 'at peace' means? I've never heard that vernacular used before. Thanks!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No one making them nervous or feel intimidated. You would expect a tank with more than one male socolofi and only one female socolofi old enough to produce eggs to have more barring on the females than a nice large tank with 1m:4f when all are mature.


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## zablalbaz (Oct 7, 2016)

Okay....fwiw I'm going to take a swing at venting my fish today. I already know one of them is a female at least so I will look at her first. Then I'll examine the big blue one next as I suspect it is the male. Then I'll check out the other three. Hopefully it is as easy as all the videos and tutorials I have read make it appear to be. The females should have a larger opening between the anal pore and anal fin then the males. Seems easy enough to do. I'll post my findings later.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If they have not yet laid eggs, it might not be very easy at all. How big are these fish? Why not just buy more unsexed juveniles of all species?


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## zablalbaz (Oct 7, 2016)

I was afraid you'd say that about not being able to tell until they have laid eggs! All the fish are in the 3" + range at this point. I bought them at roughly 2" or more and they grew pretty fast. The labs are a little smaller then the socolofi and zebras.

And I just learned my LFS doesn't have a trade-in policy. They'll take anything that I bring in to them - but they just told me they don't offer store credit. So I'd pretty much just be giving them back fish that I purchased from them originally. Also would putting more unsexed juveniles in the tank at this time be a smart thing? Wouldn't they just get beat up by the larger fish?

BTW: I'm thinking that two of my labs are holding now as well. Both of them have that distended jaw the socolofi female had before she spit the fry out. Total surprise to me. I saw no spawning behavior between the labs and/or the zebras at all.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Not all LFS do...see if you can find one that specializes in Africans...they are more likely to cater to you. Because you have both zebras and labs in the tank I would assume they are hybrids.

Adding a large group of smaller fish will be fine. The adults do not view the juveniles as a threat and as long as you add a group it's less likely that anyone will be singled out for attack as a newcomer. I'd add 8 socolofi and 8 of whichever you decide to keep between the labs and the zebras.

So you also know the gender of two of the labs and all of the peacocks.

At 3" it is worth a try at venting. What color are the zebras? Females are the bright orange and males turn peach as they mature. They take a long time to mature, IME.


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## zablalbaz (Oct 7, 2016)

Yeah. I am definitely assuming that the yellow labs are holding hybrids. I'm not going to attempt to save any of those fry. If they are crosses between zebras and labs, I hear they can be highly aggressive. I'm just going to let nature take it's course there and hope I don't have to euthanize any on my own like you did.

And do you really think I can add that many more fish? I currently have 4 socolofi, 3 yellow labs, 2 red zebras, 3 OB peacocks, and a synodontis catfish in the tank. I have two canister filters - a sunsun hw304b, and a sunsun hw305b running concurrently - so good filtration. I'd certainly love to get some more of the labs and socolofi in there if possible.

The zebras are both a dark orange color. And one seems to be developing a fleshy hump on its head.

Also, sorry if this is a stupid question, but why would I know the OB peacock sexes? Can I determine that from color? Two of them have color - one looks like a calico cat almost, the other has some very intense electric yellow and blue markings. The other is bigger and sort of a dull fleshy pink color - maybe what some would call an albino?

Thanks for the advice!


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## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

If you're interested in breeding remove the labs or zebra and add fish to try to get your m/f ratios right. The o.b. peacock should be fine with what you have.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

For a 75G 20 fish would be a good number with 4 species and 1m:4f of each (not counting cats). You want to get a bunch of females and you will expect to have to rehome any extra males.


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## zablalbaz (Oct 7, 2016)

Yep. Now I'm wondering if I should've just gotten the Demasoni via mail order instead. That would have given me the blue and yellow in one species. I think I'm going to get rid of the zebras. They were a mistake. I should've just gotten more labs.

Thanks again for the helpful advice!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You might be referring to saulosi with yellow females? Demasoni females are blue. Sounds like a plan!


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## zablalbaz (Oct 7, 2016)

Yeah. That was my origianl plan. The Saulosi - not Demasoni. Thanks!


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