# Ps saulosi gulping air from surface?



## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

http://s110.photobucket.com/user/111olb ... 6.mp4.html

(Skip to 00:06)

My saulosi are still freaked out from the move, as you can see, but they appear to be gulping air from the surface. They'll go up to the top, gulp some air, go back down into the water and spit some air bubbles out.

pH is 7.8 ammonia and nitrite are 0. Haven't checked Nitrate but I do very frequent water changes.

The fish that were in this tank before the saulosi (N. pulcher daffodil) didn't gulp air from the surface. What's going on here?


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

Guessnig.....not enough o2 in the water column.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Certainly an active bunch. My fish sometimes chase bubbles at the surface only to expel air afterwards. Looks like you have decent surface agitation. I know you're keeping them in that tank permanently, so you're going to want to add another filter. May as well add it now to see if that solves the issue. Could be an O2 problem as smitty said.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

How could it be an O2 problem? I've kept larger bioloads with this much surface agitation and no problems. 
I thought it could be an O2 problem at first too but honestly I just can't see that being the case. I know I have enough surface agitation.
Obviously if it continues, I will add another HOB on the other side.
Also I'm probably not keeping them in this tank permanently. God willing, I'll have enough money in about 5 months to get them a 55 Gal.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

Just saw your vid. IMO not enough surface agitation. Also...just a heads up. Your heater will probably burn up like that. I've had experience with heaters that say on the box that you can install horizontally but I would stick with verticle and keep the temp adjusting knob above water. Just saying


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are your water parameters? Fish will gulp with nitrite issues as well.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

No nitrite. No ammonia, pH 7.8.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

smitty814 said:


> Your heater will probably burn up like that. I've had experience with heaters that say on the box that you can install horizontally but I would stick with verticle and keep the temp adjusting knob above water. Just saying


What do you mean by burn up? I've installed heaters horizontally lots of times. I replace heaters after 1 year because I just don't trust them.

Back to the gulping air, do you guys think they'll be ok until Jan 1st? I can't really afford another HOB until then.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

pablo111 said:


> smitty814 said:
> 
> 
> > Your heater will probably burn up like that. I've had experience with heaters that say on the box that you can install horizontally but I would stick with verticle and keep the temp adjusting knob above water. Just saying
> ...


I guess replacing heaters once a year would qualify as lots of times. Doesn't mean correct install. Fish should last until 1/1


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

So I should put my heater vertically? That means I have to unplug it for every water change. What a PITA. Now I leave the filter and heater running because they're both below the water line of where I do a W/C to. 
I'm not ignoring this advice. I'm taking everyone's suggestions onboard. I'm not an irresponsible fish keeper.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Do you have a spare little powerhead? Are they acting normally otherwise? Eating well?


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

They eat like pigs like any Mbuna I've ever had. I don't have a spare anything unfortunately. Won't be able to upgrade the surface agitation until Jan 1st


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

If they were hovering at the top I'd be concerned. From the video that doesn't seem to be the case.


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## ITALIAN926 (Jul 31, 2012)

> What do you mean by burn up? I've installed heaters horizontally lots of times. I replace heaters after 1 year because I just don't trust them.


I dont trust glass heaters either, check out the shatterproof aqueon pro heaters, AWESOME, I replaced all my heaters with them, unbreakable !


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## MSullins (Oct 16, 2013)

IMO they seem fine. They are very active and eating normally. strong color. My Red Zebras will do this thinking there is food there..

The agitation is enough for that many fish.. Though you may want to add another filter later.. IMO Aqua Clear HOB filters are the best HOB filters... They don't use stupid "cartridges".. and have high turn over rates..

IMO the heater is fine.. I run heaters (Eheim Jager) like this all the time and never have any problems.. It is more efficient that way because it disperses the heat better through out the tank..

I don't think you need to worry about anything other than another filter. The fish seem fine! Keep doing what your doing man! :fish:


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

I got another Ac 70. Surface agitation is fine now.
There's one saulosi that's not coming up for food or grouping with the others. He's breathing rather fast and staying in the rocks. The others are all over the tank.
He's been like this since I got them. He's never come up for food. The other 9 eat like pigs.

Here's a video. It's on my facebook page. It's the first video on the page:

https://www.facebook.com/pablo.r.escoba

Please check it out.


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## NJmomie (Jan 17, 2013)

In my opinion, their behavior is the "hey, what the heck is this place?" behavior when fish is not yet used to their new home. I don't think they are oxygen starved. Wow, you buy a new heater every year? I have had my Jager for the past 5 years.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Did you watch the video of the one that doesn't come up for food? First video on my FB page https://www.facebook.com/pablo.r.escoba


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## NJmomie (Jan 17, 2013)

Cannot seem to find the video you are referring to on your FB page. Maybe you can link the actual video here?


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

8 hours after adding a second Aquaclear 70 on the other end of the tank, fish are STILL gulping air at surface, and are now hovering near the surface. Still just as active, except for the one male who is at the bottom, inactive, not eating. Help please.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Do you have a hospital tank you can put him in? Best to separate at this point to monitor closely and to see if being alone will change his demeanor. Possibly stressed out from another fish or an illness. I don't think you have an issue with oxygen.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

I don't have another tank. Just this one. Setting another one up any time soon is out of the question. Just don't have the funds. I already broke my back financially to add a second Aquaclear 70 as was suggested in this thread, and that hasn't solved the problem.

I've watched the tank at length. None of the other fish bother the solitary male. The rest are typically near the surface (which I find very odd for Mbuna). And they're still gulping air.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Are you positive your nitrite test works? Have you tried water changes? Remember a dechlorinator if needed? Nitrates?

I'm just asking these basic questions cuz I'm not sure what else to tell ya. Also, the Facebook vid is not coming up.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Are you positive your nitrite test works? Have you tried water changes? Remember a dechlorinator if needed? Nitrates?
> 
> I'm just asking these basic questions cuz I'm not sure what else to tell ya. Also, the Facebook vid is not coming up.


I'm not positive my nitrite test works, no. I bought a brand new API test kit a couple of weeks ago. That's what I've been using. 
I'll check Nitrates but this tank is only 3 weeks old and was generously seeded from another tank. Water changes have been done weekly. I don't imagine the nitrate can be very high.
I'll check the nitrate today and report back.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

pablo111 said:


> Iggy Newcastle said:
> 
> 
> > Are you positive your nitrite test works? Have you tried water changes? Remember a dechlorinator if needed? Nitrates?
> ...


Maybe not cycled. Fish are eating like crazy. You should have a nitrate reading. I was going to mention ammonia before. I don't know if 3 wks. is long enough to establish enough bb to accomodate the bio load. Especially on such a small hob


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

So the filter was seeded, but did you do anything to ensure it was cycled (adding ammonia & doing a fishless cycle)? Have you checked your water since adding fish? I'm with Smitty on this...


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Guys I seeded with an XXL hydrosponge that was supporting 20 adult mbuna. This tank is supporting 10 very small mbuna. It's cycled, trust me. I've been checking ammonia and nitrite regularly. Zero and zero. That's not the issue. I've seeded tanks this way before with the same volume of used media and it's been fine. I'm still at work. Haven't been home to do a nitrate test yet but will be home in 2 hours and will post nitrate results. Thanks for all the help so far!

I'm not ignoring your suggestions as to what the problem might be- but I have been testing and zero ammonia and nitrite tell me the tank is cycled. I will check nitrate as soon as I get home and let you all know. Thanks again for all the help. :thumb:


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Ok I just tested:

PH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10-20ppm


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Well I guess that's not the cause then. How's that one fish doing? It's too bad you can't separate him...

Still not having any luck seeing the vid on Facebook.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

I'll try getting the vid uploaded to my photobucket account in the next couple of days. I'm not slacking off on my aquarium responsibilities, I just don't have a camera. I was borrowing it. I have to borrow it again and that'll take a couple of days. I'll get a vid up though. He's just breathing a bit faster than the others and staying near the bottom, usually in a cave. He's also a little wobbly. Doesn't maintain a perfect vertical axis to his body in the water. It sort of wobbles, like he's off balance. All the other fish are very active and come running to the front of the tank when they see me, expecting food.


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## MSullins (Oct 16, 2013)

pablo111 said:


> I'll try getting the vid uploaded to my photobucket account in the next couple of days. I'm not slacking off on my aquarium responsibilities, I just don't have a camera. I was borrowing it. I have to borrow it again and that'll take a couple of days. I'll get a vid up though. He's just breathing a bit faster than the others and staying near the bottom, usually in a cave. He's also a little wobbly. Doesn't maintain a perfect vertical axis to his body in the water. It sort of wobbles, like he's off balance. All the other fish are very active and come running to the front of the tank when they see me, expecting food.


Has the fish lost any of his color? Have you noticed any white/clear stringy poop? Does he eat? Sunken Stomach? any Ich/parasites on him?

sorry I am asking so many questions, just trying to see if he is sick or not..


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

MSullins said:


> pablo111 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll try getting the vid uploaded to my photobucket account in the next couple of days. I'm not slacking off on my aquarium responsibilities, I just don't have a camera. I was borrowing it. I have to borrow it again and that'll take a couple of days. I'll get a vid up though. He's just breathing a bit faster than the others and staying near the bottom, usually in a cave. He's also a little wobbly. Doesn't maintain a perfect vertical axis to his body in the water. It sort of wobbles, like he's off balance. All the other fish are very active and come running to the front of the tank when they see me, expecting food.
> ...


No, please, ask questions. I want to know what's going on too. He has lost a bit of blue. Haven't noticed any stringy poop. Does not eat. Stomach is not sunken. No parasites on him.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

The "sick" male is no longer swimming. He just sits on the bottom. He's lost all his color and is now grey with black bars. 
I think I'm going to lose him very soon.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

http://s110.photobucket.com/user/111olb ... a.mp4.html

Here is a video (which works) of the sick male sitting on the bottom.


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## Raiderdane (Sep 23, 2013)

I Seem to be having the same troubles with my Saulosi. They are going one by one.....water parameters are fantastic, I do weekly water changes, same exact behavior as yours.....not eating, sitting on the bottom, the I will find it dead in a day or two.....then all seems fine, when all of a sudden, another one will be like that. Everything I read or hear about points to Bloat. I am feeding them Strictly New Life Spectrum 1mm pellets which are Highly recommended....but I just don't know what to think anymore. I have had Mbuna all my life and I have never had this happen. I am at a complete loss.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

You hand picked these at an LFS, correct? Was this fish acting normal at the store? I know this is a stupid question, but it can't hurt to ask.

I doubt this guy is going to pull a 180 and recover. Sorry about your fish. If any other fish start showing similar symptoms, you should have some meds on hand. Being reclusive could be a lot of things, though.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

No I did not hand pick them. I asked the guy to catch me 8 females and 2 males, and let him do his thing.
I didn't really observe the fish an awful lot at the store but they all appeared to be acting normally.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

How is that fish doing?


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

We had a 24 hour blackout and the un-well fish died. Temperature in the tank got pretty low. Thankfully the rest survived, along with the beneficial bacteria.

They are STILL gulping air from the surface!! I have no idea what's going on.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

24 hour blackout, WOW. So glad I live in Texas, it's a big deal that it's getting down to 35 degrees tonight, can't imagine blackouts & no heat!


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

35? That's not even 0 celsius. 
You guys are lucky. You don't have cold weather.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

It was a balmy -3 here this morning. Not quite Ontario temps, but... I'd kill for 35 right now.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Ok guys lets not get sidetracked. The remaining fish are still gulping air from the surface-- but only during the day. At night when it's dark in the room they stay at the bottom.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

I think it's something in my tap water. Please see my other thread:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=290722


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

after reading the other thread as well as this one.
I would suggest two things.
1st.... 
stop using the filter floss pad,and use the material provided with the AC70,those sponges will work as good if not better than the questionable pads in your filter. Those do sometimes have antimicrobials,which may be causing the problem. even if you bought them from a fish store,that doesn't make them aquarium safe. 
2nd....
Try using water from a different source. Pet stores sell large jugs of aquarium safe water,while it may come with some cost, the price will be less than replacing your saulosi. You can just try it once, notice if the problem persists,if it does then at least you could eliminate your water source as the problem.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Getting my hands on 10 gallons of water (100 pounds or so) every 3-4 days just isn't a fiesable solution. I live on the 14th floor of a building and getting the water up and down would be a big PITA. I don't doubt that the water IS the problem, as I've never seen this sort of behavior before.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

Sounds like the "something" in your tap water is chlorine.


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