# How do these kasakalawe look?



## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Do they look settled in? I've had them for just a couple of days.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

I wouldn't expect them to be settled yet. It's a good idea to keep the lights off for the first few days (if you haven't been doing so already).


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Little late for that.. Do they look bad?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

They're active and eating (based on your other thread) so I'd say they're doing fine.

Very nice looking fish, BTW. :thumb:


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Thank you  I have nothing to do with their being nice. I bought them pre-niced. I'm feeding the same stuff and have the same tapwater and even the same rocks though. I'll put up a video of them eating tomorrow. They go for food just like mbuna and did the same at my buddy's house before I got them. He got them from a good breeder when they were much smaller. They just started spawning before he sold them to me.


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## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

Look like nice sub-adults to me, just based on the appearance.


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## des (Mar 30, 2011)

Hard to tell how they are felling but they look great!


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

I asked them but they wouldn't tell me. 

I've seen them do the spawn dance a few times but no mouthfulls. They wouldn't be doing it if they were stressed or depressed based on my experience with other fish so that's good. And they all fly up to the top expecting food when I walk by so they're not afraid.


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)




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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

They look fine to me. (Though very small to be even practicing breeding, its prob just dominace dancing at this size. Sub dom taking on the role of female to avoid being attacked). Hope things go fine. I like to use Metro soaked food for the first few weeks of mixing new Troph with gobies (or vice versa) as both can carry bloat bugs. But hope you get away without it. But be sure to have a bloat treatment on hand I think.

Are you sure they were breeding/spawning and not just playing dom and sub dom? Look awful small/young for that.

All the best James


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Thanks for the tip about the bloat. I'll get some metro. No they spawned. I saw the (not free swimming but hatched) fry. Just like 3 or 4 but they're there.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Sure its not goby fry? Tropheus fry are very big and are free swimming as soon as released. Goby fry sometimes hop about the bottom. Your gobys sure look old enough/big enough to be breeding.

All the best James


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## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

I am sure you would have noticed a female holding for a month or so :thumb:


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

24Tropheus said:


> Sure its not goby fry? Tropheus fry are very big and are free swimming as soon as released. Goby fry sometimes hop about the bottom. Your gobys sure look old enough/big enough to be breeding.
> 
> All the best James


No my friend stripped one before he sold to me.

I got Seachem Metroplex and fed them soaked food which they had no problem with. How long should I keep up the profelactic metro? I'm sure the tropheus are clean but I'm just doing it because the gobys could carry bloat and they came from an supplier in the US.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Three weeks is all I did.
Precocious bunch your Tropheus. :thumb: 
Or maybe mine just bred late. Took my Tropheus moorii (Kasanga) 6 months after getting em at 2"-21/2" to start  .
Both are prob clean of bugs which can harm them. Just ones they have not encountered before can be a prob esp during those first few weeks. Yep both goby cichlids and Troph have a high intestinal loads (esp goby cichlids) of usually harmless microbes. Metro only kills/stops the breeding of the anaerobes and the flagellates I think that all fish but esp vegi fish carry, (leaves the digestive ones to carry on their work) stops those two getting out of control in immuno supressed fish. You get extra stress and immuno supression in any new set up. Sometimes they cope sometimes not. Metro seems to help I think.

All the best James


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

24Tropheus said:


> Three weeks is all I did.


I would be careful about using an antibiotic for that long when you're not even sure it's needed. Prolonged or repeated use of antibiotics can promote the development of drug resistant bacteria.

I've read in a number of places about gobies being carriers of harmful bacteria. I'd be curious to know how many people have actually had a negative experience when introducing them to a tropheus tank (or vice versa). I'm not doubting that it happens but I'd like to know more information.


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Ok so three weeks is too long? How long should I dose? 2?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Its not the length of time I think folk object to. Its the use of even a freely available antibiotic like Metro at all unless its to treat a known disease. Prob is if you waite for symptoms you could lose fish.

For sure Enjoying cichlids and most books recommend against prophylactic use.

Before I used Metro with new fish, I have introduced WC gobies to a tank and the Troph and gobies developed bloat. I have introduced WC Tropheus to a tank of F1 Tropheus, all the fish got bloat.

Since using it when introducing new fish, no bloat.

I see no evidence of any one getting Metro resistant bloat.

But for sure it is a possibility. Just a far greater likelyhood of Tropheus dieing without it?

Interested to hear what others have found.

Though folk may be reluctant to talk about it for fear the sale of Metro for fish use may be banned without a prescription as it already is here in the UK. Though strangly some licenced products with Metro in them are for sale in the UK. They just cost a lot more per mg than the antibiotic in its basic form.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

If you live where you can get it legally this stuff is prob even better.
http://furkidspetwarehouse.com/Jungle-I ... 054204.htm

Or the anti bacteria stuff http://www.petsupplynow.net/jungle_labs ... 370908.php

Clearly desined and sold for prophylactic use?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

24Tropheus said:


> Its not the length of time I think folk object to. Its the use of even a freely available antibiotic like Metro at all unless its to treat a known disease. Prob is if you waite for symptoms you could lose fish.


Actually I'm cautioning specifically about the length of time it's used.



> I see no evidence of any one getting Metro resistant bloat.


I'm not suggesting that prolonged or repeated use of Metro will cause "Metro resistant bloat." I'm saying that it seems possible that it would promote the development of drug resistant bacteria. It's hard to predict whether that bacteria would cause bloat, although it's obviously possible. There's ample evidence showing that misuse of antibiotics can have this effect on bacteria.



aquarium said:


> Ok so three weeks is too long? How long should I dose? 2?


I treated my trophs prophylactically with Metro when I first got them. I fed them Metro soaked food for the first five days. Most of what I read suggested that this is a reasonable course to take.

This article may be helpful.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Interesting. I would think though that a 5 days is too short and more likely to lead to drug resistance as not long enough to kill all the effected bacteria and those surviving will be selected for Metro resistance.

Full Metro treatment being 7 days yes?

Incomplete antibiotic courses are generaly frowned on for this reason. Yes?

There are lots of bacteria already uneffected by Metro yet we see no spread of this to anaerobes or flagellates (the only ones Metro treats)

3 weeks prob too long. 5 days prob too short to min risks.

But if our aim was to minimise the risk of Metro resistance we would have to not only feed the fish Metro but also treat the tank? As bacteria there will recieve a lower dose?

Does anyone go that far?

All the best James


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

K guys I'm down 2 days so far... so... how long should I do it? I'm using it based on advice, never used it, need advice on how long .


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Seriously? Nobody?


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## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

Sorry, I am one of the guys that doesn't treat unless I see a real problem. I lost a chunk of my first colony because I was too paranoid and missed the important simple stuff. I use Clout to treat my trophs by the way, I personally never found Metro to be effective against bloat . . .


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

7 days should be sufficient in my opinion.
There are pros and cons to treating proactively. In some cases, you run the risk of actually causing an illness amongst your fish because you're increasing stress in the tank. When you medicate, you increase stress. As mentioned, there's also the risk of drug resistant bacteria and/or parasites, not a huge risk but it's possible nonetheless. One can argue that it's better for a fish to attempt to fight off an illness on it's own before medicating, otherwise the immune system becomes lethargic, basically due to not doing it's job.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

24Tropheus said:


> Interesting. I would think though that a 5 days is too short and more likely to lead to drug resistance as not long enough to kill all the effected bacteria and those surviving will be selected for Metro resistance.
> 
> Full Metro treatment being 7 days yes?


I've seen everything from a single dose to 10 days recommended when using Metro as a precaution. I don't think 5 days is too short but perhaps there is more consensus to go 7.

BTW I found my fish didn't eat for a few days after I stopped treatment. I was told this is a side effect of the treatment. Anyone else have this experience?


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Mine don't seem to be having any side effects. If anything (concerningly) the metro has made them more voracious, making me think there was actually something in them, perhaps from the gobies as I can't see how it could have come from my friend. .
Given what Metro actually does and what it effects in humans I don't think 10 days is too long a treatment. I'll go to the 17Th of this month with it unless anybody objects. There were no instructions how much to mix so I've been soaking flakes in 10ml or so of water with half a measure of Seachem metroplex mixed in and letting it sit for an hour or two before I feed it to the fish. They show no difference taking flake which is treated or not treated. Gobies either.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Seachem recommends 1 measure (~100mg) per tablespoon of food paste.
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... azole.html


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

That about works out to what I'm doing. I'm using flakes.


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