# Super high ammonia



## Ace41690 (Apr 20, 2016)

Hello, I recently set up a 60 gallon tank, I thought everything was fine, but today I tested with API master test kit, and it said my ammonia was 8!

The tank is about 2 months old. I added bacteria in the beginning. I gradually added fish to it, every 2 weeks or so. I now have 19 (small <2in) Africans and a pleco. I am running an Eheim 2217 cannister which had all the usual media plus a bag of crushed coral and a bag of Purigen.

I change about 15% of the water every weak, and I treat the new water with api dechlorinator. I had been using strips to test the water (no ammonia test on them) but decided to switch to the master kit since it is better. Boy was I surpriced when I got ammonia of 8. I tested it twice, and I tested my tap and it is 0.

Temp 80, ph 8, nitrate, nitrite both read 0.

I don't understand because the fish are all happy, eating ferociously. Is it possible I have ammonium not ammonia? I have had the full stock of all 20 fish in there for 2 weeks with no issue. How is this possible if ammonia is really so elevated?! What should I do???? Thanks!


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## Ace41690 (Apr 20, 2016)

I would also add that I noticed a HORRIBLE smell from the tank around a week and a half ago, but it disappeared in 2 days, not sure if relevant.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

It's hard for me to imagine an ammonia reading of 8ppm with no symptoms. That would surely be lethal.

Horrible smell could mean something dead, which would also mean high ammonia. Also, a zero on the nitrate test would indicate that the cycle is not complete.

If it were me - symptoms or not - I'd be doing a series of water changes to bring the ammonia level way down, and give a dose of prime to detoxify whatever residual is left. After that, I'd recommend staying on top of your testing (all 3; ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) and confirm where you're at in the cycle.

I'm not a believe in bacteria in a bottle, though some people report great success. If there is in fact a problem with the cycle, which it sounds like, I would try to get my hands on some filter media from an established tank.

Best of luck to you.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

One thing to add...

If the tank is fully cycled then you may be able to get away with 15% water changes while your fish are small, but I seriously doubt that will be adequate in the long term.


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## Ace41690 (Apr 20, 2016)

Perhaps I am reading it wrong (see img). I'm a bit color blind. I can't belive they would have no problems with it so high either...

http://postimg.org/image/bxvy4u1wp/


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Yeah, I can't put a definitive number on it either but the details don't matter in this case. It's just too high anyway you look at it.


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## Ace41690 (Apr 20, 2016)

I don't know. I took the water to petco and they said the ammonia was 1 (after I did ~35% water change). My kit still looks similar after water change. It does look like there is low level of nitrite. I don't know. I got prime and put a double dose in.

I don't really want to do a crazy water change or add crazy amounts of prime since all the fish seem fine.. I don't want to shock them with a crazy ph swing or chemicals. Sigh. Any other thoughts?


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Yes. Any ammonia or any nitrite reading above zero is bad. If you keep the levels low with frequent water changes and dose with prime every 48 hours, the tank can still complete its cycle and your fish can be just fine.

Frequent water changes are always a good thing for fish. Water changes are bad when they are postponed because the parameters in the tank change and the fish become used to it. Suddenly the 40% water change (after 9 weeks without one) is blamed for fish deaths, when the real culprit was not staying on top of it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

50% water change is normal as long as you do it weekly. I do 75% usually. Reducing ammonia or nitrite suddenly and drastically is good. If your tap and tank pH are similar, pH swings are not an issue. Reducing nitrate drastically can harm fish...which is why you do PWC weekly for weekly 10ppm reductions.

Unless your nitrate is 80ppm or more, I would not worry about larger water changes. If it IS 80ppm or more I would do daily 30% changes until the problem is fixed.


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## Ace41690 (Apr 20, 2016)

OK I did 50% change. It now looks like a 1 or 2 on my kit. Do you think I should keep trying to dilute it now, given that I am using the prime. If I understand correctly, the prime neutralizes the ammonia, but let's it be available for the bacteria still. I would like to have the nitrogen cycle complete. So is it okay for me to now have "neutralized ammonia"? Fish are still fine. Idk how, who knows how long the level was that high.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

I too agree with lots of WC to keep the ammonia level down. Their term of neutralized ammonia can be misleading. It combines with different chemicals to make it "Less" toxic. During that time, your BIO system will break down the ammonia to Nitrite, ect.

dledinger is right--Ammonia with no Nitrates means no BIO system, or not cycled.

Something must have happened to your cycle. Was your filter off for a long time? Did you clean your filter with "Non-Tank" water? Did you add a chemical that kill your good bacteria?


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## Ace41690 (Apr 20, 2016)

tanker3 said:


> I too agree with lots of WC to keep the ammonia level down. Their term of neutralized ammonia can be misleading. It combines with different chemicals to make it "Less" toxic. During that time, your BIO system will break down the ammonia to Nitrite, ect.
> 
> dledinger is right--Ammonia with no Nitrates means no BIO system, or not cycled.
> 
> Something must have happened to your cycle. Was your filter off for a long time? Did you clean your filter with "Non-Tank" water? Did you add a chemical that kill your good bacteria?


At 2 weeks I removed the carbon filter (as recommended by eheim) and added purigen. And then at 2 around months (very recently) I changes the fine floss (it was very brown), purigen also very Brown already. Otherwise filter always on. But I never let the bio balls out of the tank water... maybe the cycle never happened and I increased fish too quickly? I started with 2 fish then added 4 at a time until I got to 20. The fish were so small, perhaps they didn't generate enough waste to get the bacteria going. But now everyone grew so fast and they eat and poop like crazy.

I had absolutely zero algae too until a few days ago, when I started sudenly getting some brownish algae on the rocks, which prompted me to get a better test kit.

There are some nitrites, but hard to tell with the kit, I could only determine by comparing test results with tap water that it was darker blue. But yea there's either none or very few nitrates...


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Sounds like your cycle never started. Did you use ammonia to start the cycle? A cycle takes about 4-6 weeks after first ammonia is added.


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## Ace41690 (Apr 20, 2016)

No... the pet store gave me api quick start, said to wait a few days then add fish. After I put the first 2 in I waited 2 weeks, nothing bad happened, so then I started to add more.

I will keep doing large water changes and using prime. Hopefully everyone survives.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

API quick start "May" help shorten cycle, it does not become an "Instant" cycle. That's what happened.


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I know that certain conditioners, such as Prime, bind the ammonia and give you a false positive reading.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

It should have cycled at least most of the way by now and if it wasn't the fish would croak with that much ammonia. If you have enough ammonia in the tank to matter for most fish then you will see something is wrong just by looking.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Ace41690 said:


> Do you think I should keep trying to dilute it now, given that I am using the prime. If I understand correctly, the prime neutralizes the ammonia, but let's it be available for the bacteria still. I would like to have the nitrogen cycle complete. So is it okay for me to now have "neutralized ammonia"?


I would keep it low by doing frequent water changes and dosing with prime every 48 hours. Yes, it will still show up on the test, but won't be harmful to the fish.

Where you feel safe with the balance of ammonia levels/ prime dosing / water changes is entirely up to you. I'll just say that if it were me I wouldn't monkey around with anything over 1ppm regardless of how much prime you're dosing. If it gets that high I would change water to bring it down to a more reasonable level.

You may experience the same problem with nitrites in the very near future. The treatment would be the same, but if there is any way for you to get your hands on some good established filter media that would likely be the fastest way to get this resolved.


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## Ace41690 (Apr 20, 2016)

Fish Jerk said:


> It should have cycled at least most of the way by now and if it wasn't the fish would croak with that much ammonia. If you have enough ammonia in the tank to matter for most fish then you will see something is wrong just by looking.


It's seems kind of silly that the kit doesn't differentiate between ammonia (NH3) and ammonium (NH4). Looking at this from a chemical standpoint, the vast majority should be ammonium (which is less/not toxic?) At a ph of 8. So l am guessing that is how the fish lived. There can't possibly have been that much ammonia (NH3) in my tank with no issues.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Have you been able to detect any nitrates? Without reading it all again I thought you were getting a zero? That alone, at least to me, indicates that you have or will have a problem with ammonia and/or nitrite at some point.

Sounds like you know a lot more about chemistry than I do. What little I know is strictly from fishkeeping and simply doesn't amount to enough depth to answer your above post.

I will say, that if the ammonia creeps up the fish may look ok for a while. Many years ago when I worked in a fish store I routinely tested water for customers that showed around 4ppm and still claimed everything was fine. However, I believe that 8ppm is probably beyond that point.


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## Ace41690 (Apr 20, 2016)

dledinger said:


> Have you been able to detect any nitrates? Without reading it all again I thought you were getting a zero? That alone, at least to me, indicates that you have or will have a problem with ammonia and/or nitrite at some point.
> 
> Sounds like you know a lot more about chemistry than I do. What little I know is strictly from fishkeeping and simply doesn't amount to enough depth to answer your above post.
> 
> I will say, that if the ammonia creeps up the fish may look ok for a while. Many years ago when I worked in a fish store I routinely tested water for customers that showed around 4ppm and still claimed everything was fine. However, I believe that 8ppm is probably beyond that point.


Still no nitrates, which as you say is concerning. I'm going to monitor closely and keep doing water changes to at least keep it below 2ppm.

But yea, unless tank water is somehow different than general chemistry, the ratio of ammonia/ammonium should be 50/50 at pH 9.2, less ammonia below that, more above it. At pH 8 less than 10% should be ammonia based on the pH curve. It baffles me that tests make no mention of this at all.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Shoot for 1ppm or below. And check the nitrites which are even more toxic. Even if the fish live the toxins cause permanent damage.


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## Opongrpd (Apr 23, 2016)

I would add some Stability by Seachem to re-establish the bio filtration and then increase the aeration. The aerobic bacteria are the ones that will break down the ammonia to nitrite, then nitrite to nitrate. I found out that increased aeration gives them a boost and they break down ammonia and nitrite faster. Then you can get away with PWC weekly.


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## Ace41690 (Apr 20, 2016)

Just to update. Nitrite now off the scale  , nitrate is appearing so at least it appears bacteria is growing. Ammonia going down. How long will the rest of this cycle take. Currently doing massive water change and dowing with prime.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Well, I would look at that as a positive thing and a sign of progress.

Nitrite usually takes the longest, but if you have nitrate levels growing that is a good indication that the cycle is on its way.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Keep both ammonia and nitrite < 1ppm since you have fish in the tank.


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## Ace41690 (Apr 20, 2016)

Good news! I think the cycle is finished. Finally have 0 ammonia 0 nitrite 15 nitrate. Everyone lived! Nitrite was literally of the scale until yesterday (despite 50% water change every 48hours). I guess prime saved them, although I never used much more than ~ 2x dose. My red zebra did look really sick at one point-he was almost yellow and literally floating around by the filter intake getting sucked into it.. but seems to have made full recovery. Hooray


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## oliverrichmond67 (May 5, 2016)

I heard that any ammonia or any nitrite reading above zero is bad.


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