# java fern and PH



## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

I have a tank filled largely with haps and some tangs (including eels and catfish). I first tried a little vallisneria but that was destroyed in just a few days. I bought a lot of java fern and the fish don't bother it much, but many leaves are browning and each day there is another one or two floating in the tank. In other words, they are dying a slow death. From what I've gathered, the problem is the ph. I buffer the tank to 8.2. So here's the question:

If the water out of my tap is 7.5 can I skip the buffer to see if it will help the plants or will that harm the fish?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

cholile, are the java fern plants a recent purchase? I was recently reminded that plants may be grown emmersed, and then when we plant them in our tanks, the emmersed leaves slowly die to be replaced by immersed leaves. This is happening to my Amazon sword. Maybe java fern grows so slowly it's just taking longer?

I have the same problem with java fern, and my pH is 7.8. So I think we both need to continue to look for other culprits.

(I also had some java fern prior to this most recent purchase...so it's not just this batch.)

I have success with vallisneria in my carnivore tanks, and crypts. But the easiest of all, java fern...I can keep it alive, and if I put it under a plant light (not supposed to be needed) it puts out small new leaves. But they never get larger and the plant never really grows.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

they are a recent purchase. and i have seen some small leaves growing. interestingly, in my smaller tank with calvus the java fern looks great. my lights in the main tank are much more powerful, but they are on 5 hours a day except one day a week when they're on about 12 hours.


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## afoctober2 (Apr 7, 2007)

I just bought 1 java fern plant to see how it works I stuck it in between rocks hopefully it will take. The salesperson told me it could take about a week for its roots to start growing on the rocks. If it works I might buy more but don't want to waste my money if it dies.


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## n00pster (May 14, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> I have the same problem with java fern, and my pH is 7.8. So I think we both need to continue to look for other culprits.


Did you guys find a fix for the java fern problem? I too have the same problem.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I've turned to other plants more than java fern, but coincidentally, I have some growing in an aquarium on my deck and it's doing better there than in the fish tanks. Same pH. Not sure why.


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## n00pster (May 14, 2010)

Interesting. May be its the sunlight then? Is the aquarium on your deck open or have high roof? - Just wondering about the air circulation.

btw are any plants doing well in your cichlid tanks?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No roof but because the plants I have in there like shade, the tank is under an overhang. Shaded a lot of the day.

No top on the tank, no filter, no circulation, just water. No nitrates to create algae? No fish nibbling? Not sure.

If this were a temperate climate, I would be tempted to rotate the healthy ones from the deck with the struggling ones from my fish tanks, LOL.

I removed some straggly plants from the fish tank when replanting. I decided to see if I could regrow healthy plants from the roots. The java fern was purchased and not the size I anticipated so I stuck it in there while I figured out what to do with it.

I don't have anything in the herbivore tanks. I'm having great luck with bacopa (two watts/gallon) in the carnivore tanks and the swords and crypts are surviving.


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## n00pster (May 14, 2010)

Thanks for the info 

I think I too will try my luck with some java fern in the patio and some swords and crypts in the main tank.


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## jzdanows (Jun 20, 2010)

I have an amazon sword and valisneria. my ph is 8.3 and they havent really grown very well but I do have an ash like substance on them and everything else that accumulates quickly. I guessing its algea but what kind and what can I do to lower nitrate? my tap water is lousy with nitrates. my tank water right now is around 12-15 mg/l. any advice?


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## n00pster (May 14, 2010)

n00pster said:


> I think I too will try my luck with some java fern in the patio


This experiment failed. Java fern leaves became black and died off. Leaves came off when I pulled on them gently.. totally rotten. I guess the algae,lack of nitrates and the summer heat did it in..

I took the remaining brown leaves with the rhizome and put it back in my main tank. Within 2 days it became green and is looking better now.. I had placed it in a high flow area in the tank.. Looks like the java fern likes water movement.. So my new experiment is keeping them closer to power head.. lets see how this goes..


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## Andras (Jul 17, 2010)

If you're using cichlid salts to raise the ph or kh, I'm betting that that is causing your plants issues. Most of the aquatic plants we use in aquariums do not take to salts well.


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## n00pster (May 14, 2010)

Andras said:


> If you're using cichlid salts to raise the ph or kh, I'm betting that that is causing your plants issues. Most of the aquatic plants we use in aquariums do not take to salts well.


Agreed. I do not use salts but my substrate is aragonite sand and I have got some limestone rocks in there. So tank ph is buffered at 8.2 in the main tank whereas my tap water ph is only 7. The end result is similar to using salts..

But my java fern experiment tank outside had a ph 7 so there are worse things than high ph


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## Andras (Jul 17, 2010)

That's weird. Maybe the lighting isn't enough. These plants don't required a lot of light, but I'd say a minimum of 1-1.5 watts per gallon of water with a photoperiod of at least 6 hours is needed to keep the plants moving along.


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## n00pster (May 14, 2010)

Andras said:


> That's weird. Maybe the lighting isn't enough. These plants don't required a lot of light, but I'd say a minimum of 1-1.5 watts per gallon of water with a photoperiod of at least 6 hours is needed to keep the plants moving along.


Are you talking about the ph7 tank? I had it outside in my patio. It was in direct sunlight for at least 3-4hrs.. But I didn't have any filter in that tank, just like DJRansoms tank.


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## n00pster (May 14, 2010)

I see what else is wrong with my main tank other than high Ph . I have 2 18W fluorescent tubes with 0.65 wpg total. :lol: I might have to replace those tubes first.


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## n00pster (May 14, 2010)

I have 108W now in place of 30W and its 2W per gallon and the plants are still not looking good. Its been many months now with this setup and the plants are just surviving with brown battered leaves. Looks like there is something else wrong in my tank. Probably the high PH. I have java ferns and anubias and these are expected to survive in high PH.


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## ezrk (Aug 22, 2010)

We had similar problems and started using Excel and Flourish and found that really helped. Our Anubias are doing better thant he Jave Ferns, but both are reasonable.


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## n00pster (May 14, 2010)

ezrk said:


> We had similar problems and started using Excel and Flourish and found that really helped. Our Anubias are doing better thant he Jave Ferns, but both are reasonable.


Are you talking about seachem flourish excel?

Anyway I ordered this:
http://www.lnt.com/product/plant-nutrients/11442-503308/seachem-flourish-excel.html


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## n00pster (May 14, 2010)

I did some research on plants and learned about macro and micro nutrients and CO2 and light requirements so I am dosing flourish, flourish excel, leaf zone and added a DIY CO2. I have been adding baking soda too to increase Kh and hence increase the percentage of CO2 in water. I had already upgraded lights to 2W/g. I already had high nitrates so looks like every bl**dy thing everything is covered. Its been 1 week and I see very minorl improvements - like new leafs coming out. But the old ones stay the same.

I seriously doubt whether plants are possible on aragonite sand substrate. If anyone here has success with plants on aragonite sand please reply. Thanks!


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## Nina_b (Jan 3, 2011)

Why not try a pot? My plants have always been potted, and that works well with cichlids wanting to redecorate, and allows you to keep them in a nutrient plug (yes, they don't absorb nutrients through their roots, but it's close to their leaves, and it works).

Simple nutrients plug is made with flourish and filter floss in a pot, relatively tightly packed around the roots.


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