# LFS extinct?



## madzarembski (Jul 3, 2008)

*What kind of Cichlids do you have access to locally?*​
Tangs613.95%Malawi2148.84%West Africans00.00%Vics12.33%South American1534.88%


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## madzarembski (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi

Here in the Greater Chicagoland area, I have come to the conclusion the LFS have been driven to near extinction by two factors. One, the relative large number of aquaria related societies locally and two the sheer number of Petsmarts, Petcos, etc... (big boxes). The lfs are pretty sad. 85-90% carry maybe a mixed african tank, a tank with juvenile oscars, JD, and firemouths, and a tank of angels. That seems to be it. So, I'n kinda curious what's readily available elsewhere. The cichlid organization around here is great but I think it has also hurt the lfs. Around here Cental American, Tangs, Malawi, and Vics can be found from GCCA membership. But most Dwarf South Americans, and West Africans seem difficult to find...

madzarembski


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

It's pretty much the same across the country. I was fortunate to come across some pelmatochromis buettikoferi... Quite the rare west african...


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

If you are willing to drive a bit, there are several good LFS in the seattle area for cichlids (south/central/westies). It may take about 3 hours or so as they are rather spread out, but I can get a lot of species without special orders. And one even orders from Rapps, Ken Davis, and even Oliver Lucanus from canada ... in this past year I've seen noto's and orinoco dwarf pikes, blue fin Pelvicachromis, and even _Etroplus canarensis_.

This isn't to say we haven't lost a lot of LFS ... indeed, only one out of the 5 major ones I used to go to back in 1995 is still open now. But the good ones are going strong despite all the chain stores, and they do so well enough that even when gas was $4.79 a gallon, I was still willing to do the 3+ hour drive circut to hit them all. :thumb:


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## becadavies (Apr 2, 2007)

Well in UK (london,greater london) the LFS have pretty much stopped selling malawi as there are supposedly "No market" for them anymore!!!!! Alot of my Local LFS still readily sell CA+SA and 3 of my 5 local shops are swapping their African cichlids for Marine's!!

Most disappointing i assure you


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Well I couldn't really vote since you can only pick one type and I have access to them all. There are 2 or more LFS within 1 hour drive of me that have most or all of those types. And there are 2 hatcheries within 3 hours drive of me that have everything you can imagine.


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## maddyfish (Jul 23, 2004)

Here in northern Ky. and Cincinnati, Oh. I can find SA/Ca of all the common type and occasionally uncommon types, Malawi fish, Tangs, and west Africans. Not many vics that I have seen. But it is only a 1 1/2 hour drive to bluegrass cichlids in Louisville so all is well.


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## Desi&lt;3 (Feb 13, 2008)

My LFS carries just about everything and I can special order anything I want. They have a mixed Malawi tank but they tell people not to buy them (I don't know why they get them in if they dont let people buy them, not that anybody really wants them  ).

They also carry a wide range of synos, I still don't find them at any other LFS


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## heylady (Oct 14, 2004)

I have access to everything too. There is a LFS not 10 minutes away which is heavy on cichlids. Not to say he doesn't have other fish too but cichlids far outweigh the others. Given the fact that where I live is only 1 to 2 hours away from Florida fish farms and that the guy who owns the store is more than willing (and able) to special order anything, well....makes it easy!!


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I grabbed the kids today and we went and visited a few stores that are about 40 minutes from us.... Same thing in every one. Mixed africans, cons, jds, fm's.... Yee ha. Good news is one of the stores is a ma and pa store and the owners going to be calling me tomorrow to see what I've got for him. I told the girl I'd be able to spruce up their stock of cichlids! The only thing interesting they had were two 6" chocolate cichlids... But they weren't for sale LOL They were the owners fish LOL


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm lucky to live within 2 hours of Atlantis Tropical Fish Hatchery...that's my fish store for sure!

Other than that my local fish stores really only carry a good selection of saltwater fish and corals, basic tropical fish and a great selection of freshwater plants. All my local fish stores that I have been too have pitiful cichlid selections...

~Ed


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Can get all and more at the local Big Al's.


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## non_compliance (Dec 4, 2008)

I guess I"m pretty lucky... in mid michigan, there's Preuss Pets... Take a look, what do you think? I think it's a pretty sweet pet store!!!

http://www.preusspets.com/

might even be worth long drives! (4 hours from chi-town)


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## Nathan43 (Jul 9, 2007)

Though I love LFS, some are better off closed. We have one in town that was selling a penguin 350 HOB filter for $99.99 and another place had a pair (Just two, not breeding pair) of 7" beat up oscars for $89.99 or $59.99 for one. You can't stay open with delusional expectations like that... Its a competitve market, with all the online fish suppliers, it shouldn't be that difficult to maybe mark up 35%-100%, not 300-800% I can't afford those prices. So, if I have a big order, online I go, otherwise I pick up small things here and there locally. There is one lfs that has about every variety out there, many I have never heard off like a golby cichlid. Pretty cool place but once again, anything other then fish is crazy expensive.


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## kornphlake (Feb 12, 2004)

I can get just about anything, locally but not all the time. I only keep SA for the most part because my tap water is soft and acidic, for the most part the shops keep SA and west african species that do well in tap water as well, that isn't to say that CA and rift lake cichlids can't be found though, there are a couple large shops that have a good selection of hard water cichlids.


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

Most LFS suck around here. We have one local store that gets OK fish, but nothing special. Like another person said, Preuss has nice fish and a really nice store. Fish are pretty pricey, but with their overhead, I'm not shocked.

There is a couple who have a LARGE (400+ tanks) breeding operation over towards the East side of the state and they are my LFS of choice. Takes about 90 minutes to get there in good weather, but WELL worth it.


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## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn (Dec 26, 2005)

I'm pretty lucky that my LFS is pretty good, admittedly it is a "big box store" with 100 or so outlets areound the country (most people in the UK will know who I mean, and it doesn't start with pets)

but they have a mixture of Malawi and Tanganyika cichlids, and extensive range of South Americans and quite a few central Americans as well.

cant say I've seen any vics or Madagascan cichlids in there however.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Well living in Australia presents it's own problems with our restrictive import laws in regard to the ornamental fish trade. We have legal fish, baned fish (will be destroyed on sight and heavy fines and/or gaol time), and illegal fish (but once in the country can be sold within the aquarium trade - known as the grey list).

I'm not familiar with African cichlids, but they dominate the cichlid trade here, mainly becuase our tap water is pretty hard and has a high PH, good for African cichlids. While our natural water ways are soft and have low PH and are perfect for South American cichlids and fish, hence why many many SA species are baned. Slightly off topic but we now have, Brasiliensis, GT's sp. gold saum, Oscars, Convicts, RTC's and gibbiceps in various waterways in my state.

As for LFS, we don't have the chain pet stores down here, yet. There are a couple of all purpose brand name Pet Stores with two or three shops, but not at the chain store stage yet. The well established LFS still do very well, and I'm surprised at just how many there are in a city with 1 million people that is spread out over such a large area. I honestly didn't think so many could do well.

However more and more people here buy thier dry goods online. But for the most part it's still cheaper to buy quality brand names at your LFS, as the distributers here have made deals with the LFS so that they are not undercut by the online stores. Brands such as eheim, fluval, aquaone, jager, hagen, NLS, hikari, etc are cheaper at your LFS if your a regular. My closest LFS will beat any online price I can find on these brands. You can buy lessor quality dry goods very cheaply online, but in the long run, quality goods present a cheaper option.

The biggest change the internet has brought about is the online trading amongst enthusiasts. It's absolutely massive down here. Becuase so many fish species are illegal to import, they are smuggled in through Asia, and sold online through various Aquarium websites, the largest being the Aus. trading forum on Plecofanatics, followed by each states cichlid forum and then each states Aquarium hobby forum. In general there are more species sold online than in any LFS, they are of a better quality, and much cheaper if locally bred by hobbyiests.

But the price of fish down here is ridiculously expensive compared to Europe and the States, mainly becuase of the cost associated with shipping legal fish from Africa, South America or Europe (it's illegal to import any fish from the USA - mainly becuase your quarentine laws suck  ), or becuase the fish have been illegally smuggled into the country and it's a sellers market.

Pricing my two tanks in Aus dollars.

Laetacara curviceps - legal @ LFS $10ea
Panaque sp. L397 - illegal via online, locally bred $80ea for 5cm juvies
Lemon tetras - legal @ LFS $3ea

Laetacara dorsigera - legal @ LFS $30ea 
Corydoras panda - legal @ LFS $8ea
Marbled hatchetfish - legal @ LFS 14ea
Golden pencilfish - legal @ LFS $10ea
Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus - illegal @ LFS $5ea for 2cm juvies


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## non_compliance (Dec 4, 2008)

chapman76 said:


> Most LFS suck around here. We have one local store that gets OK fish, but nothing special. Like another person said, Preuss has nice fish and a really nice store. Fish are pretty pricey, but with their overhead, I'm not shocked.
> 
> There is a couple who have a LARGE (400+ tanks) breeding operation over towards the East side of the state and they are my LFS of choice. Takes about 90 minutes to get there in good weather, but WELL worth it.


where's this joint? Brighton area? I saw you reference some people down that way... website? I might have to shoot over there.. 45 min for me.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

If we can all please avoid reviewing local fish stores in our area by name.

Reviews are restricted to the Reviews Section.

Further references will be removed. Thanks for helping to keep the sections on topic. :thumb:


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

The (Mom&Pop) LFS are in decline. They are going away for the same reason your old hardware store closed, lack of customer support after the big box store moved into your area.
A handful of loyals can not keep a store going for long. 
Just my thoughts.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Your thoughts are very simply the facts...


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

KaiserSousay said:


> The (Mom&Pop) LFS are in decline. They are going away for the same reason your old hardware store closed, lack of customer support after the big box store moved into your area.
> .


plus all of the online suppliers......


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## sirdavidofdiscus (Dec 8, 2006)

I try to support the lfs as much as I can. Most of the more established ones around here have a better selection and healthier fish than the box stores. But they tend to fall short in the supplies. I think this is mainly due to the physical size of the stores. I think the biggest thing we are losing with the decline of lfs is customer service. IME lfs people tend to be more knowledgable than the box stores. It is unfortunate that people just starting out with their 1st 10ga (or even 55) just go for the cheapest without any real knowledgable support. When I was in high school (25yrs ago) I applied at a mom and pop lfs were they actually gave me a written test on the compatibility and requirements of the various aminals they sold. Try to find that today.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Just looked at our craigslist, yet another failed store owner trying to sell his stock.
The only good news? seems to be, there will always be a hobbiest who thinks he can make a living doing what he loves.
Good luck to them all. :thumb:


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## Terrence23 (Oct 2, 2008)

Here in sunny Southern California, there are plenty of LFS and big box stores that sell cichlids. They all just have the worst selection of cichlids you can imagine! :? Outside of the assorted cichlid tanks with red zebras, awful yellow labs, aurutus and a few others, there's no selection at all unless you want CA/SA cichlids like Oscars and Jack Dempseys. I had to purchase all of my initial stock from online breeders and pay insane shipping costs because all the good breeders seem to be located in the midwest or east coast.

Most LFS have higher prices than the big box stores because they can't sell in large volumes and get the supplier discounts. It doesn't help that the economy is awful these days and people are cutting back big time on discretionary purchases like fish set ups. Even one of the big box stores in my area is closing down at the end of the year due to low sales. The upside is that everything in the store was 40% off and I got a bunch of cichlid tank supplies and plants on driftwood for my betta tank dirt cheap. :lol:


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## afoctober2 (Apr 7, 2007)

Don't know what part of chicago your from but the suburbs have a lot of lfs that carry some rare cichlids you have to pay for them but there pretty good.


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## Nathan43 (Jul 9, 2007)

Pretty sure no one mentioned chicago at all. i would love to have access to what chicago has to offer...


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## madzarembski (Jul 3, 2008)

afoctober2 said:


> Don't know what part of chicago your from but the suburbs have a lot of lfs that carry some rare cichlids you have to pay for them but there pretty good.


I've covered the Chicago burbs pretty well, It's kinda disappointing as far as I can tell. There is a small chain that has a location in Schaumburg and Boilingbrook that has okay fish in regards to the quality. There is a place in MT Prospect and Park Ridge that is decent. Outside of them, for a metropolitan area of 7 million people. That's weak. Now their is a cichlid association where you can get a lot of WC and F1 type fish as well as many breeders of nice cichlids but that is not the same as a good lfs. If you have a list of solid LFS please PM me as my job alllows me to travel the suburbs alot.


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

Many a defunct LFS owner has learned the hard way that catering a store to cichlid hobbyists is a formula for failure.


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## SLIGHTLY STOOPID (Dec 23, 2004)

This is a weird poll. I can get them all but can't click each choice.


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## afoctober2 (Apr 7, 2007)

madzarembski said:


> afoctober2 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't know what part of chicago your from but the suburbs have a lot of lfs that carry some rare cichlids you have to pay for them but there pretty good.
> ...


I guess if your looking for a specialty it be pretty hard to find what your looking for. I've been to all the ones you mentioned one in Westchester is pretty good but the same as the rest some times they will have good peacocks but depends on what they receive. 
Buffalo Grove - Tropical World Pet Center not the nicest looking store but did have some expensive fish that looked good


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## madzarembski (Jul 3, 2008)

Well, I just learned that the Mount Prospect Illinois lfs will be closing its doors soon. It is a shame. I wonder how many more of the lfs will fold?  They carried a nice selection too.


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## afoctober2 (Apr 7, 2007)

its a shame I meant to say the mount prospect store had good fish not buffalo grove. It wasn't a neat store tight to walk in but some very nice african cichlid.

I went to bolingbrook aquarium adventure it was a disappointment poor selection high prices not even properly stocked seems poorly managed. I saw their big display ponds expected to see big koi like the hoffman estates aquarium adventure just saw little fish couldn't even tell what it was. Than couldn't find the food that other store carries


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## cihal19 (Jan 17, 2009)

Sorry to bump this topic, but there WERE a few good LFS here in Connecticut back when I had tanks set up for guppies. Now though, trying to find good fish and supplies for my cichlid tank is much more difficult there is one good store about an 1 and 20 minutes away. The few I used to shop at either went out of business or retired. Anyway I'm going to need to try and find some clubs around here, so that I could possibly purchase some fish from a fellow hobbyist.....as for buying fish online...it seems expensive and I don't even know where to look.


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