# Worth paying extra for tank height?



## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Hi all

Firstly - I'm an absolute beginner when it comes to Chichlid tanks. We've had tropical tanks in our family home since I was a kid, but the scientific side of fish-keeping is new to me! However, I have a small but overstocked 63L tank which is doing great. 

I am thinking of getting a new tank in the New Year and I've got my heart set on an African Cichlid tank now.
Looking at about 72" long, but only have about 12"-13" depth to work with because of it's final location.

Is it worth paying extra to have a 30" tank instead of a 24" tank?
The cost is pretty much double....

I've read on this forum that the extra height doesn't matter much to mbuna, but it does to others (I don't know the different types yet).

Is it worth the extra, even if it's for the extra water volume (to help create a more stable environment)?

Also, any ideas of which African Cichlids would be best in that tank? I'd like to have as many (colourful) fish as possible!

Thanks in advance. :thumb:


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Welcome to the forum.

I personally would not pay double for only 6" of height. The extra water volume is nice, though. Also have to weigh in cleaning and maintenance, which can be difficult in such a high tank.

What would be the final dimensions for both tank sizes?


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## atreis (Jan 15, 2013)

Unless you're particularly tall and long-armed, maintenance of anything more than 24" can get fairly difficult.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Thank you both for your replies.

Final dimensions will be 72" x 12" x 24"/30".

I'm neither tall nor long armed and so perhaps 30" isn't worth the extra money/headache, particularly for "vertically challenged" people like me (I'm only 5'4"!!!). I suppose I could comfortably it in the tank and clean it! Lol.

Any thoughts on which fish to stock the tank with and how many?

I'm also thinking about going with an external canister filter over a sump, just because they're easier. Do people run Cichlid tanks with external canister filters or does everyone tend to go with a sump?

Thanks again.


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## yamadog (Oct 7, 2012)

I maintain a 30 inch tall tank for some relatives of mine. What a PITA! Unless your going with angels or discus, don't bother. Really, I have to use a step ladder and I'm 6'2".


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Thanks Yamadog.

Given that you're about a foot taller than me and still need a step ladder, you've definitely convinced me to go for the 24" option and save some money (which I can spend on the fish instead!).


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Do you have the option to go deeper front to back? 12" is challenging when it comes to decorating and will be even more so with a 24" tall tank.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Hi Skurj

I've just measured the space properly and the deepest I can go is 14" (which I will do). 
The problem is that the tank is going between two chimneys to (hopefully) produce an 'in-wall' look; anything more than 14" and it'll stick out into past the chimneys (pic below).


Space for new tank by hozzy2014, on Flickr


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

As far as stocking goes, you'll have to avoid the larger haps due to the 12-14" depth, IMO.

Best to look through the species profiles to see what interests you. I think your best bet would be 4-5 species of mbuna or a really cool Lake Tanganyikan community setup.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Thanks Iggy - I'll go through the list and try and learn what I can/can't match.


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## shelbynjakesdad (Mar 13, 2013)

I agree with the others that more depth will be very useful, just keep in mind that unless the tank is drilled on the bottom, you will not be able to push it all the way against the wall in the back as you will need some space for the plumbing. Even if it is bottom drilled, you'll need to run some cords to the lights somewhere... just something to think about.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

I was planning to have cables/pipework coming over the sides of the tank instead of the back.

Once the tank is in place, there will be about 6"-8" on either side. These be hidden as there will be a facade around the front of the tank (with removable panels for access) to give it more of an 'in wall' look.

I don't have anywhere else for the tank, so the only alternative would be to have a 24" depth (or more) with the whole stand and tank sticking out 10" or so past the chimneys and into the room... Not sure how I feel about that.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Hi Hozzy and Welcome to C-F!!!

Is the heating unit on the wall a portable one or a permanent installation?

I also have a 72"L x 24"W x 30"H aquarium and it is a pain to work on a step ladder to rearrange decor or sand and to catch fish, especially since the stand is the standard 27.5" tall.

If you plan on using a sump for filtration, check your stand construction to be sure it will fit through any openings or the door openings. Also, the holes for the overflows for the tank would be preferred to be on the bottom IF you want the tank as close to the wall as possible.
If you plan on using canister filter(s), make sure the stand door openings are large enough to install and remove the filter(s) for maintenance. 
If you plan on using power filters that hang on back (HOB), you may need up to 4" behind the tank for the filter, depending on model.

There are lots of things to consider if you are trying to fit and filter a tank in the opening you have selected. It is doable, but will take some advance planning to be sure all the components fit and are easily serviceable.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Hi Deeda and thanks for the warm welcome.

The central heating unit is fixed to the wall, but I might move it or just turn it off and build the stand around it. There's another heater in the room anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm thinking of going with a cannister filter (maybe Eheim Professional 3e 600T with the integrated heating unit).

I'm planning to run the necessary cables/pipework up the side of the tank instead of behind it, thus (hopefully) allowing the tank to be pushed right up to the wall.

The finished dimensions would then be 72"L x 24"H X 14"D (I've decided against the 30" height thanks to everyone's advice above). I'll cover the sides and top the cables/pipes won't be showing.

I'll definitely make sure the filter fits into the cabinet under the tank - thanks for the reminder! My current filter doesn't fit, you can just about make it out in the pic.

Anything else I might need to think about?

Thanks again.


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## aquaticpa (Dec 1, 2013)

If it doesn't interfere with other things, I would get a wider tank and have it stick out.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

It might interfere with my health and wellbeing, as I'm likely to get beaten to a pulp by my Mrs. It is so tempting though (getting a bigger tank, not the beating).

I'll have to have a proper think about it.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Do you have wall outlets for the power equipment on that wall? You will need a light(s), filter(s), heater(s), and any other additional equipment you might want to add in the future.

Don't forget that the baseboard trim won't allow you to push the aquarium stand right up against the wall.

And just for a quick reminder, aquariums are measured by length (L) left to right, width (W) front to back, height (H) top to bottom. The term depth is sometimes used for height though it should refer to the depth of the water (top to bottom).


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Maybe you could convince her with a nice custom stand that blends into the chimneys as if it was meant to be there... or perhaps a 6ft bowfront if you can find em..

I am also in the 24" or less for height group. My 6ft x 2ft x 2ft gets delivered tomorrow (can't wait!) but IMO 2ft depth 2ft height is a perfect compromise for working on and room for fishes and aquascaping.. now if I had room and the wallet for 8 ft instead of 6ft...


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

UNless you are going costume built I don't know of a 72" tank that is 12" deep. I would not recommend going that narrow anyway. I had a 12" deep tank and it was a pain to scape. 18" just give you so many more options. Since you are looking at a 24" tall tank I would suggest a 135G (72"x18"x24")

I would stock it with bunch of different peacocks and haps and maybe a group of yellow labs. I'd say you could probably stock up to 40 fish in a 135G tank.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Deeda: I have power points there. I always used to give measurements in LWH, but then I saw a retail website (ND Aquatics) that had all their measurements in LHW, which threw me. Then I saw the same thing on another site and figured the fish world did things differently. Glad to know that it's LWH here - makes much more sense. I think I've probably used both ways above, that's how confused I am!

My proposed stand design will be a bit hard to describe in words, but I'll give it a go:

Building the stand and the legs as usual will leave about 1.5" gap between the back of the stand and the wall, because of the skirting board.

I'd have a strip of timber screwed to the wall to fill this gap along the top, and then screw the stand into this piece too. I'd probably also fill the gap between the legs and the wall with timber in a similar fashion, just for good measure.

The plywood sheet (which the tank would sit on) would go on top of the stand and would be able to go all the way to the back, as would the tank. I hope.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Skurj - the stand will be covered to blend in with the chimneys, as will the gaps on either side of the tank and a portion above it (where lights will go). I don't think I can get away with having it come out into the room - it will ruin the aesthetics of the space and it exposes the tank to a lot more potential damage from kids (my own and those of guests - more likely the guests!).

I thought about turning it and using it as a room divider (starting at the wall and going behind the sofa in the pic above), but then I'm worried that it'll get damaged as my youngest two are boys aged 4 & 6 and we have a lot of guests

If I was brave enough to do that, I would've liked to have gone for a longer tank (I've found a really reasonably-priced supplier on eBay who seems to have good reviews) but I wouldn't be able to get anything longer than 6' into the house (will have to turn it upright to get it through the living room doorway as the're no turning space in the hall) without having to go through my next door neighbour's garden, removing a fence panel, etc. Given how much the thing is going to weigh and the fact that it's likely to be cold and slippery outside in early Feb - it's probably a terrible idea! Lol


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

clhinds78 - the tank will be custom built.

1. Is the main issue of tank depth (width) to do with the rock caves?

2. I've seen a lot of pics with the caves in the middle of the tank, is that so there is good flow around the perimeter of the tank?

3. I know this answer depends on which fish I choose and how large they'll grow, but how large do the caves need to be?

4. What if the caves were only 4" deep (I've plucked that number out of the air) and set right at the back of the tank, leaving 10"-11" of open water at the front of the tank? They could be wider to make up for the lack of depth, and stacked on top of each other like a block of flats ("flats" = "apartments" for everyone from the other side of the pond!).


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Hozzy, I would pull the skirting board off to save some messing about.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Thanks Noddy. I think I'm going to leave the skirting in as the house is old and that skirting will be hard to replace, should I decide to relocate the tank. I'm (fairly) confident that the method I've proposed above will provide sufficient all round support for the tank, whilst allowing me to push it all the way to the back. Will update everyone with a pic in Feb once it's all done.


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## spotmonster (Nov 23, 2006)

If it's customs built, use the maximum space you can. I like the idea of keeping it flush, it will look much better that way.

My thought on height, is it work the money? Double the cost, heck no! But 100.00 more, heck yes! Sure it's a pain, but you're not going in it for a total tear down very often, and vacuums can be had very long. Tall tanks sure do look nice and "showey". Since it's custom, maybe you can go 27" - 28" high instead.

With a little step ladder and a long net, and half the water removed, it's manageable!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

hozzy said:


> clhinds78 - the tank will be custom built.
> 
> 1. Is the main issue of tank depth (width) to do with the rock caves?
> 
> ...


Wider tanks are just easier to work with in general and since most cichlids claim their territory based on footprint and not height wider is better.

Having a wider tank does make it easier to stack rocks and create caves IMO. Sometimes you really have to work with the rocks to get them to stack and look right and having the extra space is nice.

How many and how large of caves you need does depend on the fish you choose. Mbunas need at least one cave per fish, but they don't have to be that large. They actually prefer tight spaces so as long as they can get in and out of it they're fine. Since peacocks are mainly open water swimmers caves aren't as important, but they still need some hiding places.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Hi Spotmonster!

I was thinking about this earlier, and figured that as I'm only 5'4 I'm gonna need a step ladder no matter what! :lol:

To be honest, I don't mind the extra maintenance pain of a 30" if it would create a better environment for the fish and be worth it financially (which it doesn't seem to be!) - it would look pretty awesome in the space though...

The prices I've been quoted (tank only - LWH):

72 x 12 x 24 (10mm glass) = £200 (about $328 US)
72 x 12 x 30 (12mm glass) = £395 (about $647 US)

I need to go back and get revised quotations for 14" width.

Before I decided on going with Cichlids I also asked for a price for a 36" high option. £900 (almost $1,500!)  
That ain't happening any time soon.

I've sat in the living room looking at that wall like a mad man for ages and I think it'll have to go flush and not stick out into the room - so max of 14" deep it is.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

I would go for the 24" tall tank. 6" of extra hight really won't do you much good with most cichlids unless you are looking at angelfish or discus.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

I'll probably go as high as the 10mm glass allows (that might even be 24"), if only because it will look nicer! 
As soon as it becomes necessary to step up to 12mm glass, the price shoots up.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

I've found an example of the sort of cave system I mentioned earlier:


Cave Example by hozzy2014, on Flickr

Ok, it's not the most natural looking cave system but it would definitely free up some of the depth for the more open swimmers... any thoughts?


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

There is some debate with Malawi in particular whether the community is better served by not having caves. Denying fish a territory to claim supposedly can lead to less aggression... just tossing it out there.


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## spotmonster (Nov 23, 2006)

hozzy said:


> Hi Spotmonster!
> 
> To be honest, I don't mind the extra maintenance pain of a 30" if it would create a better environment for the fish and be worth it financially (which it doesn't seem to be!) - it would look pretty awesome in the space though...
> 
> ...


Don't sweat the depth much. 14" will be ok. The higher tank won't be better for the fish. Like most have said, the footprint counts more for most cichlids. Although it does add more water. It's mostly would serve to create a more dramatic focal point for you to look at. That's a crazy price for an extra 6" though! mainly because of that 12mm. If you can safely go higher with the 10mm, go for it, probably not much additional cost.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

hozzy said:


> I've found an example of the sort of cave system I mentioned earlier:
> 
> 
> Cave Example by hozzy2014, on Flickr
> ...


Nice looking tank! It looks like it has a 3d background and that type of rockscape can be tricky to do. They can be challenging to stabilize.

I think caves are helpful in that they provide hiding places for harassed fish, particularly the females. Even if they're not fighting over territories mbunas will herrass one another, the males were certainly chase the females. Providing caves or some sort of hiding will give them a place to retreat.


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## spotmonster (Nov 23, 2006)

I remember that tank. I think that is built out of plastic gutters, with lava rocks siliconed over them isn't it?


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Not sure about this tank, but there is similar one on this forum I saw a little earlier that was made out of PVC guttering. I'll try and dig out the link.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Found it: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=182519


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Hi all

Just to let you know that, in the end, I decided to get a wider tank and use it as a room divider. I'm ordering the tank in the next few days, and it will be 72 x 30w x 24h (12mm for added safety and optiglass on the three sides that will be exposed (one end won't be exposed because of the stand I'll be building for it)).

I decided to lose the extra 2" of height as it seemed like an unnecessary expense (thanks for all the advice!) and because it would improve the safety factor.
I did some reading around safety factors and came across a couple a really useful web pages with calculators for glass thickness: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/?p=1732


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## spotmonster (Nov 23, 2006)

Great compromise! Good luck and post pics.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Thanks. I'll definitely post pics as I'm building my own stand too. 
Think I'm going to burst with excitement!


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