# Emperor 400, cheap, easy mechanical refills



## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

Got these at Sam's Club for <$7.00 20 in a pack









Slightly bigger but no trimming required. No need to even disassemble the gray boxes.


















Perfect fit, no trimming necessary  Easy and cheap as heck, about 34 cents a piece.
I am using a diy canister for my bio, But these may work also, I'm just not sure how long they would hold to biweekly washings, they may loose their stiffness.
But Put one before your bio cartridge and replace it or rinse it when it gets clogged and it's easier than trying to restuff and snap those boxes together when you have them stuffed with floss.


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## Newtrip (Sep 11, 2002)

I know this post is a little older, but I think it deserves a bump. I just saw this and I just have to give you props for thinking of this.

Since some time has passed, how well are these working for you as filters? Are they working well? I may just go buy a box today.

- Newtrip


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

They're working great. Once week I just rinse them out, so far only the back 2 need any rinsing or anything, after about 3 weeks I just move the front ones to the back and put new ones in the front.
I just swish them in water and slap them around in a bucket to get the crud out of them, they don't clog as quickly as the factory inserts, but appear to trap just as much, if not more junk.
The painted logo doesn't wash away or degrade, I think some may have a concern over that.

Hide the box! Women have some unique talent of sniffing these things out on cleaning day :wink: 
But they're cheap enough to share.


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## CDMOK (Mar 28, 2008)

> Hide the box! Women have some unique talent of sniffing these things out on cleaning day :wink:


 :lol: We're like hounds, I tell ya.

I got two (very used) Emperor 400's with my 125, and I've never used them before. I went out and bought the bio wheels which is simple enough, and the blue cartridges, but everyone keeps mentioning the "grey cartridges," which I have no clue about. I haven't seen them in the stores. Do they come with the filter originally? Do you put whateverthecrap you want in them?

Not to hijack your thread or anything, just curious :thumb:


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## Newtrip (Sep 11, 2002)

CDMOK said:


> I got two (very used) Emperor 400's with my 125, and I've never used them before. I went out and bought the bio wheels which is simple enough, and the blue cartridges, but everyone keeps mentioning the "grey cartridges," which I have no clue about. I haven't seen them in the stores. Do they come with the filter originally? Do you put whateverthecrap you want in them?
> 
> Not to hijack your thread or anything, just curious :thumb:


Here is an example of them:

http://www.pets-warehouse.com/Vpasp/sho ... map=110454

They just hold different types of media in addition to the regular blue pads. Some people cut their own blue filter pads and stick them in the grey cartridges. Other people stuff them full of filter floss or charcoal or whatever their heart desires. So yep, you do put "whateverthecrap" you want in them. :lol:


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

My gray boxes came with the filters. Basically they're made for biomedia, you can put the blue cartridges in their place or just don't use that slot. 
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... catid=3626
CD-118385 Media Container (mfg# PR 2150)
If you must have them. actually cheaper that from marineland!
https://www.marineland.com/store/Media- ... 308C0.aspx

Edit: wow that's even cheaper Newtrip


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## CDMOK (Mar 28, 2008)

Ahhh, and the light is shed.

Thanks a ton


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## mddjr5 (Sep 12, 2005)

I love this idea! Now I just have to get a Sam's membership 

One question though, I looked at walleyworld and found the normal size scotch-brite scour pads that are about 6"x4". On the back of the box it says in bold print "*Not for aquarium use.*". Do you think they are just covering their butts like GE silicone I or is this something legit? If all is well, then this is a great idea for any h.o.b. filters since you can easily trim these to different sizes :thumb:


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## Newtrip (Sep 11, 2002)

mddjr5 said:


> I love this idea! Now I just have to get a Sam's membership
> 
> One question though, I looked at walleyworld and found the normal size scotch-brite scour pads that are about 6"x4". On the back of the box it says in bold print "*Not for aquarium use.*". Do you think they are just covering their butts like GE silicone I or is this something legit? If all is well, then this is a great idea for any h.o.b. filters since you can easily trim these to different sizes :thumb:


I noticed that as well. It also says not to use the pads on glass or ceramic, so I think it indicates that because if you use it to scrub the glass of an aquarium, it will scratch. I've got three of these in my filters and have not seen any issues so far.


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## mddjr5 (Sep 12, 2005)

i am guessing that if bulldogg has been using them for over a month without any problems then they should be OK :thumb: i'm glad to hear that you haven't had any problems either  that does it! i'm going to give it a try!!!


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## GTR73 (Oct 25, 2004)

I've always used plastic pot scrubbers for filter media - us cheapo Aussies love economising!

However, had a bit of an incident the other week I thought worth sharing:

Cleaned my dad's aquarium filter for him - Sacem 1000 External Canister on a 3ft Tank, 4 young Acei, 3 mature Yellow Labs and a Bristle Nose catfish.

The canister is half full of ceramic rings, the rest is filter wool and a layer of course foam. The course foam had started to deteriorate and I only had a wad of new wool on me, so my dad found some brand new 3M ScotchBrite pads in the cupboard (the green scourers - as per the pic in the first post of this thread). 
On the packet it states *"Sterile if boiled"*, so my dad boiled up a couple of pads, I cut them to size and into the canister filter they went. When cleaning the filter I used only tank water, didn't wipe down the interior and placed the ceramic into a bucket of tank water not even rinsing it. I replaced the wool and course foam only.

About a week later all the fish stopped swimming, looking quite sick resting on the bottom. Then the Acei started to die one by one. Even the BN was looking crook.

As my little niece regularly feeds these fish I assumed she had been over feeding them and combined with a newly cleaned filter, the tank's nitrogen cycle may have crashed.

After one 20% and three 50% water changes over 5 days, the fish were still sick with all the Acei gone.

Then it clicked - the only thing different to my usual process of cleaning a filter, was the 3M ScotchBrite.

So I pulled that out, did an 80% water change and wouldn't you know it - all the surviving fish (the E.Yellows and the catfish) are all happy and swimming around again. It's been over a week since removing the scourer pads and currently the male Yellow is even trying to spawn.

So it had to be the ScotchBrite pads, surely. 
I must confess I didn't test the water for ammonia spiking, and I wish I had of because it would have been more conclusive that the ScotchBrite pads were the culprit. 
That said, I still reckon it was the scourer pads.

I thought it worthwhile letting people know - even if the packet says "Sterile after boiling" it doesn't mean it'll be safe for fish.

Some people over here in Oz reckon the manufacturers try to make pot scrubbers completely anti-biological and they use chemicals to achieve this.
Might be a different country but they're still same brand, same product name!

I've used scourer pads for years, can't remember what brand I got long ago, but never had a problem with them until now.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

That sucks! I just put new pads in 2 different tanks thursday, haven't had any problems yet. Wonder if boiling them releases something? I also read somewhere, that boiling makes them sterile, but maybe it releases something? 
I've never boiled these, I got some no-scratch ones I boiled to clean the inside glass with, no problems there either. Even in "Oz" if they say sterile, they should indeed be "sterile". I hope no one else has had similar experiences with them. These pads are a bit dense, they will get build up over a week, and may need to be cleaned or replaced, you may have disrupted the cycle. But with the other media it seems you'd be safe, I do apologize if it was the pads. 
But I have additional media also, plenty of bio in my diy canister, using potscrubers. I could probably take out the emperor and be safe. But it sounds like the scotchbrite may have done something.
They get bacteria buildup on both sides, maybe they just sucked out the O2? Did you have a spray bar? Agitation? It could have been anti-bacterial agents also?


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## GTR73 (Oct 25, 2004)

No need to apologise mate. :wink: 
Didn't mean to shoot down your suggestion as it's a great idea, it was just coincidental I've recently had a disaster with the very same pads. 
I've been using pot scrubbing pads for years now and my recent use of the ScotchBrites was without seeing your suggestion at all. It wasn't until after my disaster I did a search on here and found your thread. 
I've either done something wrong or 3M have changed their manufacturing in Australia. One guess is 3M may have started using metal particles to make them more abrasive? Who knows??

I now wish I had of tested the water for an ammonia spike, to confirm any crash in the cycle, but I did all the right things - used only tank water to clean the filter, preserved the ceramic rings which are the primary bio media, and no feeding for two days afterwards.
The best I can surmise is to use 100% nylon pads next time and I'm currently trying to find out what brands people are using.


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## basicfisherman (Jan 21, 2007)

Started using this idea in one of my filters. Seems to be working well so far. Great idea by the way. :thumb:


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

I think that the pads have an anti-bacterial/fungicide in them making them last longer in the kitchen, but making them poisonous in the aquarium. I have no proof of this of course, just my suspicion. 
On a related note. I was at my local walmart the other day and I saw that they have thin foam filters for window ac units. They look perfect for mechanical filtration. I plan to cut one down to size and stuff it in my penguin 200. Hopefully I will have better results than others have had with the scotch-brite pads. 
I'll keep you posted.


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## Bones08 (Jul 15, 2008)

so are the scotch brights a no no for aquariums or was that just one instance? I was going to go out and get some, but now I am unsure.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

I've still had no trouble with the scotchbrites, the paint is non toxic. The air conditioner material should work also as long as it doesn't have any anti microbial stuff on it.
I get the 6X9 pads in the box, they fit perfect. You could probably boil them if you want, but I haven't had a problem yet.


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## Bones08 (Jul 15, 2008)

here is my setup










Front Left and Right: Blue Carbon Filters, w'o the carbon and Seachem Matrix Added
2nd I have the Scotch Pads 
3rd on the left side I have bio ceramic rings and on the right I have Nitra Zorb

I bought some poly fil, but it just looks like I dont have room for it, any opinions on my setup?


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

looks great to me, I'd just swap the scotch brite and the normal filters just because the scotch brite is cheap to replace. You could keep the refills for bio and just use the scotchbrite pads to keeep them a bit cleaner


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## Bones08 (Jul 15, 2008)

Thanks for the input, it looks like my emperor needs some cleaning...However, do I need to adjust the water flow at all, because the flow is over the scotch bright pads. I have the tab pulled all the way out for maximum water flow.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

Are those the 6X9 pads? I've got an older model 280 on a diff tank and the pads are alot higher come to the top of the slots. Not sure, but the older 400's may be built deeper from the looks of it.
Did you trim the pads? They look more like 6X8.


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## Bones08 (Jul 15, 2008)

I just measured the pads and they are 4x6...I have four of them in the filter, 2 on each side...and yes the emperor is very old....

The nitrate levels seem to be coming down gradually each day as I measure it, however one of my fish doesn't look so hot...I cant wait till I start getting my paychecks to upgrade to a much larger tank


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

They should still provide alot of bio once they get established. With them being after the filter inserts, they shouldn't need cleaning very often, if ever.


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## Bones08 (Jul 15, 2008)

I've started to notice "white debris" floating in the water and I was wondering if it was due to my filter or the fish in the aquarium...I have seachem's matrix in the last slot of my emperor (one closest to the water) and was wondering if it could be that...thanks


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## Joephish (Oct 28, 2005)

Where do you find the 6x9s? I've only found the smaller 4x6s and have to use 2. I just looked online, and couldn't find them.


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## Riderintraining2 (Aug 24, 2008)

what do you do about the carbon?


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

I'm not sure what the white particles could be. Unless the filter is clogged and overflowing, it could be bacteria flaking off.

Sam's Club should have them, maybe lowes or home depot
http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/naviga ... tem=330345

I don't use carbon, but there's room to use the factory cartridges if you want.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

Props go out to Chris Derrick


> I went and purchased a box of 20 for my 4 emp 400 hanging out back because I thought it was a great idea. I got to reading on the box and it says in bold print NOT FOR AQUARIUM USE! So I called 3M the company that makes scotch brite and talked to a rep about why this is and he told me it will kill the fish because they use aluminum oxide in the material to help it clean stuff better.  I was so glad I didn't use it on my new wild caught tropheus tank and thought I would pass it along here maybe save some one else's fish also! Now lets find out a new idea on what to use to save money on these filters. Thanks and hope this helps.


They do contain some Al2O3, and it is toxic to fish in acidic water. It's also an ingredient in blasting sand. They should be safe for use in alkaline waters, I believe.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/rock_metals.php


> Heavy metals (lead, zinc, copper, cadmium, etc etc and even iron) are toxic for fish, inverts, and mammals, including us, when they reach certain-enormously varying-concentrations. In the case of fish, such metals are primarily dangerous in their free ionic form in the water where they are available for uptake by the fish metabolism.
> 
> In the form of compounds, such as oxides, they are inert and not free for metabolic uptake. For example water conditioners which 'detoxify' heavy metals actually bind them into compounds which cannot be absorbed by the fish
> 
> ...


My apologies to anyone who's experienced trouble with these.
I was unaware of the aluminum being a problem.


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## Joephish (Oct 28, 2005)

Wow, that's an interesting chemistry lesson.
Though, trying to match the waters of the rift valley should have us all striving for hard, alkaline water, which would make the Al2O3 not a problem. Granted a tankful of WC tropheus costs quite a bit o coin and saving some pennies one a filter might not be the brightest idea. Fortunatly for me, San Antonio water is just about an even match for the Rift valley, and the pads have been working great. No fish lost. I have Pseudotropheus and Mbipia species doing fine one the pads.

Another though would be to do an acid bath on the pads before putting them to use to leach out the aluminum oxide. Just a thought. Might be more trouble than it's worth.


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

I decided to try these scotch brite pads after reading this post and so far so good. They have been in for 2 weeks and all is well. My pH is around 8 with moderate hardness so I guess the Al2O3 should not be a problem. Would this mean if someone were to use these pads in a tank with a pH under 7 that Al2O3 would leach into the water and kill the fish?


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Smellsfishy1, that's what it sounds like to me. I'd be interested to know what pH poster named GTR73 had in the tank that had the acei die. I think I'm going to get some and try it. With gas this high we gotta save money somewhere :roll:


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Smellsfishy1, that's what it sounds like to me. I'd be interested to know what pH poster named GTR73 had in the tank that had the acei die. I think I'll try the pads. With gas and everything else going up we gotta save money somewhere :roll: My fish aren't high $ fish anyway  Really though, I wouldn't be afraid to try them with pH over 7. Several have tried with good results and there was only one that had bad luck & we don't know what his pH was.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Sorry about the double post. I even checked to make sure it wasn't there :x


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