# Unusual Cyno. White Top behaviour...



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

We've had a group of fry from our Cynotilapia White Top Galireya growing out in a tank with some acei fry, and the White Tops were getting too aggressive for the aceis, so we had to do something with them. Since we plan on turning one of our 55G into a single species tank with the White Tops, we just dumped the sixteen 3/4 inch fry into the main tank with their parents, hoping for the best! (Right now it's a mixed tank with several species in it, all adults except for some juvie estherae.)

Here's a pic of two of the tiny males having a bit of a showdown while in with the acei...(I wish the "bystanders" hadn't wound up in front of them, but I still think it's amazing to see how nice these guys can look at 3/4 inch!) See why I lost interest in my Cobalts, Joea???










Anyway, back to the unusual behaviour...

When we caught them and dropped them into the main tank, it caused quite the frenzy with the adult fish, but the father stepped right in and herded the fry all to a corner, and has been quite busy herding them ever since! (That's an adult female with her tail to the camera on the right, she just released another 22 fry this weekend!)










He is even referee-ing squabbles between them, and manages to keep the entire group on one side of the tank or another, but always together. If there is a little stray, he goes after it and quickly brings it back with the others! It will be interesting to see how long he keeps this up! It makes me tired watching him. (Mom pays them no mind!)










My male zebra long pelvic Galireya seems to be really interested in the fry - he's peeking through the hole in the spaghetti rock in the above pic, and has even butted a few of them with his head, but the White Top male steps in, every time.

The fry are just about a month or so old, and have grown really fast, and with the other batch that we have growing out in a tank by themselves, we will have our single species tank.

Just thought I'd share this interesting behaviour and the pics! I've never seen this happen before. It's almost as if he knows they are his!

Kim


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## jhunbj (May 16, 2005)

Hey Kim....any cyno. white top fry for sale? I would love to have some of those awesome looking fry. :thumb:


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

I've never had my white tops do that?! That's crazy!


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Almost sounds like some sort of residual parental behavior but is probably more just some sort of Alpha behavior in a group, a dominant male keeping order over juveniles who pose no threat nor are of breeding age, so they are treated different from adults.

How often do people put a large amount of young juveniles in with adults like that...? It is rarely done, and having a bunch of juveniles survive naturally in a fish tank would be rare also. It is hard to imitate the lake itself with the huge amount of living space with all ages of a species living together in a loose group. Continue to observe and experiment.

If the juveniles are that attractive, they should become quite popular.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

I keep offspring with the parents many times - and have never observed such a behavior.


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## Cichlid Power (Oct 11, 2006)

Beautiful pics and interesting behavior. I've never seen anything like that.

My white tops still have not bred.......


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

there are different species sold as "White Top Afra", so hopefully people are not getting these mixed up.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

These are not classified as afra...Yet...Much to my confusion!

This is the first time I've ever added a group of fry back to a main tank like this, so noki is right...This may be totally normal behaviour and we just don't give it the opportunity to happen very often!

A week later and he's not hovering over them as much as he was, but he still manages to stand guard pretty well! When two of the little guys flare up and go at it, he comes flying in from out of nowhere and breaks it up. As far as I can tell, I haven't lost a one of them, and there are many other larger fish in the tank that could easily have eaten them a thousand times over. The female White Tops totally ignore the little ones, but Dad seems to be determined to see them survive! We'll see how he feels when they are old enough to start hitting on his girls! :lol:

Eventually, all the other fish will be removed and this tank will be dedicated solely to the White Tops. I have another large clutch of them in a grow out tank right now, and will be adding some of them when they are large enough, as well.

Kim


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

Most Cynotilapia have yet to be described. I was told that instead of calling them "afra", that they were to designated with "sp." in the name. That's the case with my C. sp. Lupingu. I've seen them labeled as "afra Lupingu" and "ndumbi Lupingu" but they haven't be described so I've just left it as "sp. Lupingu"........

And to really confuse matters - there's a few "white tops" on the market. I've seen C. sp. white top 'Likoma's (also a nice metallic blue) and I've seen my C. sp. Lupingu's called C. white top 'Lupingu'! The names of many of the Cynotilapia are confusing. To make matters worse - I've found that some locations in the lake have two variants of Cyno's in one spot - how bad do you think that would be if both were exported under the same name?!

Sorry to get waaay off subject but, felt like it was somewhat related to a comment made earlier in this thread. :wink:

By the way, cichlidaholic, I'd love to see pictures of your species only tank of white tops when you have done.


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## maxwell1295 (Feb 18, 2006)

There is a lot of confusion regarding this species. The fish Kim pictured above is known by many names. I've seen them called White Top Hara, Galleriya Reef/Galireya Reef, White Top Galileo, and Blue Reef among others. I just picked up a group of them and they were sold to me as F1"Cynotilapia White Top Hara". I had my eye on another set of F1's that were labeled "Cynotilapia Hara Galireya Reef".

I believe there is another White Top Cynotilapia from Likoma, but I'm not sure whether that one is the same fish or another species altogether. I've only seen pics of males on Aquabid, but no females. I've also seen them labeled as Pseudotropheus.

It is kinda confusing... :-?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

noki said:


> there are different species sold as "White Top Afra", so hopefully people are not getting these mixed up.


noki, mine aren't mixed up, but it is possible that they are getting mixed up in the LFS...They are wild caughts from a reputable importer here in this area.

maxwell1295, are you referring to Psuedotropheus pulpican (kingsizei)? I used to keep these guys, too, and the males look very much like the Cynotilapia White Top Galireyas, but the females are very plain and drab looking. Males are hard to tell apart, IMO.

I also have some Cynotilapia sp. Mbamba (two variants) that are commonly sold as "afra", but they aren't classified as such. According to my friend and importer that I get most of my fish from (he does the fall dive with Ad and Stuart EVERY year and brings in some really great fish for us lucky Ontarians) they may eventually be classified as "afra", but as of now, they aren't.

Kim


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## maxwell1295 (Feb 18, 2006)

Kim, that's not the fish I was referring to. What I meant was that this fish was originally classified as a Pseudotropheus until Konings took another look at it and decided that it was a Cyno. Check out the last post in this thread:

http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=163

Here are some more good discussions that may be of interest:

http://wiscichlidforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2430
http://www.midwestcichlid.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=2063

BTW, my F1s are from some WC parents of J_N_S, who posts here.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Thanks for the links! I found the last one especially interesting, since I have wild trio of the Ps. long pelvic Galireya, as well! (plus about 100 fry and juvies from them!)

Looks like the White Tops are one of the favourites for everyone! I must have a perfect balance in my tank right now, though, because I don't find them anywhere near "semi-aggressive". They are no more aggressive than any of the Yellow labs or acei I've kept!

It will probably take me a year of grow out to get this tank where I want it to be, but I think it will be worth it. And with the amazing colouration I'm seeing from the little ones, it shouldn't be boring.

Kim


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## maxwell1295 (Feb 18, 2006)

The fish I have (a group of eight) are about 2" in length. The color is amazing, especially on the males when they get "fired up". The tranformation from dark blue to almost white is incredible! It happens in a matter of seconds. Now I'm in even more of a rush to get the 125 set up. These guys are going right in as soon as that happens. Hopefully, that'll be in another week or two at the most.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

maxwell1295 said:


> Here are some more good discussions that may be of interest:
> 
> http://wiscichlidforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2430


Hey, that's my thread. I didn't think anyone read that. lol. :lol:


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You have some really great pics in that thread, why_spyder! Just one look makes it easy to see why these guys are so desirable.

Kim


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## maxwell1295 (Feb 18, 2006)

That thread is linked to in a bunch of forums. I did a Google search on "Gallireya Reef" and that was one of the links that showed up.


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## teqvet (Mar 24, 2008)

why_spyder said:


> maxwell1295 said:
> 
> 
> > Here are some more good discussions that may be of interest:
> ...


That thread is gone


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

teqvet said:


> why_spyder said:
> 
> 
> > maxwell1295 said:
> ...


Yes, when the WCF got redesigned most of the old threads were deleted.


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## yogurtpooh (Jul 28, 2005)

hey i just moved my white tops from a 4 feet long mixed tank with a bunch of other mbuna to their own 3 feet long species tank, its been 3 days and the dominant male has not colored up at all. Infact all of the fish have female colors, as before the domaint male was constantly colored up and the subdominant male was also always colored up. Luckily no aggression at all so far. Any tips on this or is this a waiting game? I added a yellow tail acei and it really brought the entire tank out and about but my rock work is very limited.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

They may just need some time to settle in, but odds are they won't be as happy in the 3 ft tank as they were in the 4 ft tank, and if you have multiple males, you may have some problems. You took away a foot of floor space, and I can't imagine housing my two adult males together in less than 4 feet!

I don't think a single acei would be overjoyed in that size tank, either. Acei do much better in larger groups and need at least a 4 ft tank once fully mature.

Kim


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## yogurtpooh (Jul 28, 2005)

actually i have 4 males and 2 females...
im not worried about aggression at all. I'll just have to see during breeding time.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

How big are they, yogurtpooh?

I'd be very concerned over having 4 males and 2 females in a tank that size.

Are they spawning yet?

I have two large wild males, about 5 inches each...I've gotten to the point where I cannot tell them apart, except for their claimed territories in the tank. I have several other males of varying sizes, ranging from 2-4 inches, and probably 10 females. I often have to remove one of the largest males so that they can even begin to spawn, the aggression gets very intense and it can go on for days, with no one getting to spawn with the mature females, unless I remove a mature male. This is in a 55G 4 ft. tank.

Kim


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## yogurtpooh (Jul 28, 2005)

the dominant male is adult size while everyone else is nearing. All fish are at least 3.5 inches. They have spawn for me many times. I always have a sub dominant male colored up and the 2 other males remain in female coloration unless they are squaring off. 
In the past I've really only seen aggression during spawning time. I'm not sure if I should go with the bare sand tank or get as much rock as I can in this new tank.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If you go with rocks, I would just have one pile for the two top males on either side of the tank.

Good luck!

Kim


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## RAM333 (Mar 10, 2008)

Hey, how are the Ps. long pelvic Galireya with the white tops since the males of both species have dark vertical bars?

I have some Ps. long pelvic Galireya and was thinking about adding the white tops since they look great and everyone seems to love them. I have long pelvic in a 90 gallon (48*18) but may move them to a 125 (72*18) if I add the white tops.

Thanks,
Ron


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I don't have the Ps. zebra Long Pelvics anymore. I gave them away...

I had all adults in with the White tops for quite some time without any problems at all.

The only reason I got rid of the long pelvics was because of the ugly females, and they bred like rabbits!

Kim


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## yogurtpooh (Jul 28, 2005)

would u say the piles should have crevices that the fish can swim through or just any pile would be okay? I was thinking of getting round river rocks since they are smooth, but it would be difficult to create a lot of crevices out of them. I am using lava rock now, but they seem to be scraping their bodies on it when i make sudden movement infront of them.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

cichlidaholic said:


> I had all adults in with the White tops for quite some time without any problems at all.
> 
> The only reason I got rid of the long pelvics was because of the ugly females, and they bred like rabbits!
> 
> Kim


I have no problems with mixing these two species either - despite the barring or fins. Everyone I know that has either Met. sp. "red top" Galilea or the Ps. sp. long pelvic Gallireya gets monster spawns out of them. The last two times I stripped my females I got around 50 fry each time - not bad for a 2.5" mbuna. :lol:


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## RAM333 (Mar 10, 2008)

Great to hear the long pelvic and the white tops get along.

Thanks,
Ron


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

RAM333 said:


> Great to hear the long pelvic and the white tops get along.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ron


They should...They are actually both from Galireya Reef in Lake Malawi! :wink:

Kim


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

What do the adult Cyno. white top females look like?


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## walleye (Aug 20, 2007)

The adult females look alot like subdom males. Here is my female right in the middle. The subdoms on the bottom and the dom to the right.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

One thing I've noticed (and really like) about this species is that subdominant males tend to colour up much nicer than in alot of other species.

I have 5 males fully coloured (nice blue/white) in a 55G.

Of course, I have tons of females in there, too, but it's very unusual for that many males to take on nice colouration, IME.

Kim


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

cichlidaholic said:


> One thing I've noticed (and really like) about this species is that subdominant males tend to colour up much nicer than in alot of other species.
> 
> Kim


I see this species being the next "saulosi/demasoni" powerhouse species. There is no way this species will be fading out.... :thumb:


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

why_spyder said:


> I see this species being the next "saulosi/demasoni" powerhouse species. There is no way this species will be fading out.... :thumb:


I agree. Everyone loves the Cynotilapia, but so many of the species have plain drab females, so this gives everyone an option. And, IMO, the female White tops are the closest to purple you will come with mbuna.

Kim


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## teqvet (Mar 24, 2008)

Kim convinced me to add them to my stocking list, and I have! Just waiting now to be able to afford a bulk order of a few species


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## walleye (Aug 20, 2007)

It's fun watching the subdom males flare white and spar, then watch them turn deep blue when the big boy comes around the corner. I had a 3.5" subdom challenge my 5" dom male the other day. That was interesting to watch for a few seconds. The tank boss had to put him in his place. :thumb:


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I did have to separate my two wild males after about a year. They couldn't seem to come to terms with who was in charge, and after a couple of weeks of constantly trying to kill each other, I had to pull one out.

The large wild male is okay with all the younger males being flared up and fighting all the time, he totally ignores them. I'm sure it will be different once they start to get closer to his size. Right now, he rules by having an extra inch on them! :lol:

Kim


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

cichlidaholic said:


> And, IMO, the female White tops are the closest to purple you will come with mbuna.


I the black mbamba species females are actually a brown/dark purple at times - but nothing like you'd get with the sp. hara. The male black mbamba's, however, do get a true purple.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I had a wild group of the Mbamba Nkhata Bay for awhile, but the male looked almost black - he was so dark. The females were a dark brown with a bit of amber in their dorsals, never purple.

You must be talking about a different variant!

Those were nice Cynotilapia, though. The females were more attractive than most.

Kim


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

cichlidaholic said:


> You must be talking about a different variant!


As far as I know - these aren't actually in the "mbamba" group - but they are called Cyno. black mbamba Lupingu. That's as much as I can really tell you about them. As you can see, they really don't look like the "mbamba" group at all as far as dark body with a blaze of some kind. The body shape in the males is about all that is the same - a deep bodied species.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Very nice!

Kim


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## Sid_P (Feb 20, 2007)

I took me nearly 8 months before I could get hold of some Cyno White Top Gallireya's from someone near my area...managed to buy 5 wild-caught..and they were beautiful ...the dom male was the most stunning fish in my main tank...until he was assassinated!!  though not before fathering some offspring so hopefully soon there will be some look-alikes appearing.
I know have around 20 small white-tops living in and amonst the rocks...they certainly have done a great job surviving in a tank full of large fish... and I'm not looking forward to pulling out my piles of rocks to harvest them all!! What a mission!! :roll:

Highly recommended species to keep!


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