# Live plants in sand?



## Meisterkiyoh (Oct 12, 2012)

I plan on changing my tank to sand soon, do I have to do anything special for my plants or do I just have to bury them like you would in a gravel tank?


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## norwalkfisherman (Oct 4, 2012)

I find that my cichlids love moving my plants in the sand. If they have a good root system it's harder for the fish to move them. If you find the fish still move the plants with long roots, try putting some larger rocks around the base of the plants so the fish can't dig them up


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## Meisterkiyoh (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the info


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

What kind if plants?


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## Meisterkiyoh (Oct 12, 2012)

I cant remember their names off the top of my head, but heres pics of the 2 types of plants in my tank. They seem to be doing alot better in the sand then they were in my gravel. I haven't had any floating plants unlike when it was gravel.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k3szusmy1xwv9o1/2012-10-18 11.50.59.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2v79roa8kqq51ls/2012-10-18 11.50.46.jpg


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

Are these plants in a cichlid tank? I see a molly in the background of one of the pics. The first picture looks like an Amazon Sword plant. The second one, I'm not 100% certain. It appears to be a stem plant. Sand can sometimes be a little difficult for some plants to spread their roots. Also, it provides no nutrient value and no water flow around the root system. Amazon Swords have a large root system. I had one in a tank once, and when I went to take it out, some of the roots were about 18" long! I would consider getting some fertilizer root tabs and place them in the sand under the plant's roots, for the red colored stem plant, make sure the root tab has iron. This is better than just pouring nutrients into the water and will be less likely to casue algae blooms. My tank is sand too, but I just have rhizome type plants (Java Ferns, Anubias) so they aren't planted in the soil. Also, if you don't have a CO2 system, you should consider dosing with a liquid Carbon supplement, like Excel. Plants are just like fish. They all have different preferences for water conditions, amount of light and CO2, soil conditions and fertilizer needs. It is best to research them just like you would your fish before you buy them.


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## Ollie (Sep 22, 2009)

2nd plant looks like Ludwigia Repens. Both of those plants are easy to grow and neither require co2 in any form. Root tabs are a good idea. 
@testeve there are no issues with adding nutrients to the water(I do this daily in my planted tanks) as they do not cause algae, they will feed algae if it blooms but then algae can survive on 1/1000 of the nutrient level required by plants and in a FW tank youll never get rid of 100% of nutrients. Algae blooms are triggered by various things like poor plant health and amonia spikes.

Regards

Ollie


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

@ollie. You are right, adding nutrients to the water are totally fine. I did it in my heavily planted tank too. But they have to be the right nutrients and in the right amount. I disagree though about co2. Every plant in the world needs at least some co2. My main point in my comment was that you should know what plants you have and what their needs are, they are just like fish in that regards. If you don't give your plants the right nutrients according to their needs they will not thrive or grow and they will die.


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## Ollie (Sep 22, 2009)

testeve said:


> @ollie. You are right, adding nutrients to the water are totally fine. I did it in my heavily planted tank too. But they have to be the right nutrients and in the right amount. I disagree though about co2. Every plant in the world needs at least some co2. My main point in my comment was that you should know what plants you have and what their needs are, they are just like fish in that regards. If you don't give your plants the right nutrients according to their needs they will not thrive or grow and they will die.


No worries then I agree with the above :thumb: just to clarify what I meant, neither of the plant species above require additional co2 to be grown in the aquarium, the co2 levels in the water will be enough.


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

The first plant looks like a normal Amazon Sword. Your second plant could also be Reineckii. Ludwigia Repens has more rounded leaves in my experience.

As for planting them in sand, it could be a little problematic, because sand does not have many of the nutrients plants need. You could probably do some root tabs, and that would help. And Seachem's Excel does pretty good for supplying carbon in my experience


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## Meisterkiyoh (Oct 12, 2012)

I use API Leaf Zone for my plants. I havent had any issues with algae, I just get a little bit of brown algae on the leaves of the fake plants of the log my catfish hide in but they eat it before it gets any further. How well do the tabs work compared to the Liquid plant food if anyone has tried both.  my amazon sword has a huge root system, about 6 inches out in every direction, I trim the leaves when they get eaten so I don't have dead leaves floating, otherwise I'm sure the leaves would look alot bigger. and yes I do have some mollies in my tank, but I'm in the process of selling them off. Just sold two Friday. I'm working on converting it to a Cichlid tank.


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

I have never used API Leaf Zone. Looking at the ingredients online, it seemed to not really have a full spectrum of nutrients. IMO Seachem Flourish seems to have a better spectrum of ingredients. Again though, it depends more on the needs of your plant(s). I believe root tabs would be beneficial in your case due to the substrate you are using. In my planted tanks I only use ADA aquasoil, so I don't use root tabs anymore. I used them in the past with good outcomes. I will add though, that if the Leaf Zone is working and your plants are healthy, then I wouldn't change anything. Lastly, I don't know what kind of cichlids you are buying, but if you get any mbuna or other herbivores, you will probably lose those plants. The sword "might" be ok.


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## Meisterkiyoh (Oct 12, 2012)

Ok. Whats a list of good hardy plants that most cichlids will not eat?


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Anubias, Java Fern, Crypts, sometimes Vallisneria.


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

I have Anubias Nana and dwarf anubias. They have much smaller leaves and don't grow really big like regular anubias (can get huge). Ferns are great too. I have some needle leaf, thin leaf, large leaf, and lace ferns in my tank (See pics below). Thin Leaf looks good and doesn't get too big. The best part about these plants to me is that they do not need a lot of work. They grow relatively slow, and don't need alot of care. I do not put anything in my tank for them. They really have no special lighting or other needs. They are very hardy. If you need them to grow more to fill in some space in the tank you can add liquid CO2 (Excel), but it isn't needed. Another great thing about these types of plants is you can superglue them to the rocks to get them started and then they will eventually grow already attached to the rock. In fact, you have to be careful if you plant them in soil, you cannot bury the rhizome part of the plant, only the roots. You can use a gel quick drying superglue. Has to be gel type. The no name brand from Walgreens or rite aid works great for this. Remove the rock from the water, dry the rock and the rhizome part of the plant. Put the glue on the rock and affix the rhizome right to the glue. Hold in place and give it a few seconds to set. Use a spray bottle and spray a little water on the glued area. The water will help the glue to set. It should dry in a few minutes. It will turn white and you should not be able to easily pull the plant off. Once dry the glue is inert and won't harm the fish or the plant. The plant will grow already attached to the rock. This way you can put the plants anywhere you want and is much easier and more secure than trying to use thread. Also keeps the fish from digging them up too! Here are some pics from my tank. Everything is superglued to a rock.










Anubias Nana









Here you can see some of the larger Java Fern in the back and the much smaller thin leaf in the front.


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## Meisterkiyoh (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks. I'll have to look into buying some. Do any of those grow new roots if you trim a piece off?


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

Definitely! That's another cool thing about them. The rhizome grows longer and longer and then it "shoots" out new rhizome "branches". With these types of plants you can cut pieces of rhizome off the main plant and replant that new piece and it starts a whole new plant (Just make sure the new rhizome piece has at least 1 leaf on it). You have to cut the rhizome though, not just the leaf. Also, the ferns will often grow new plants under their leaves. You can remove this new plant from the leaf and replant it as well. So they actually have a couple different ways that you can spread them around and have new plants. In all 3 of my tanks I have about 25-30 thin leaf fern plants. They all came from one 2" long piece that I bought about 4 years ago! Remember though these types of plants do tend to grow a little slower than some other plants.


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## Meisterkiyoh (Oct 12, 2012)

Thats great, thanks. I like to stick plant plants in my 3 gallon to get them started growing right off the bat so I can split them. my Ludwigia came from a friend with a little piece and I just kept trimming it for new plants. I figure why buy a ton when I can just grow them and cut a new one when I like


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

I agree, why buy a bunch of plants when you can juts buy one big one and split it up. Just keep in mind that Ludwigia and other stem plants grow much, much faster though. If you had a little CO2 system, good lighting and some fertilizer in the 3 gallon, you could probably get them to grow a lot faster, but still not as fast as the stem plant. Otherwise ferns and anubias plants don't really need any of that stuff.


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## Meisterkiyoh (Oct 12, 2012)

Ya, I keep them trimmed though, there mainly in there for my puffer because they like swimming up and down plants. Im heading to the lfs today so I'll check to see if they have any of those plants


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

The puffers eat all the snails too! Great way to quarantine the plants before adding them to the main tank! :thumb:


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## Meisterkiyoh (Oct 12, 2012)

Ya, I recently acquired some baby puffers from one of my lfs. The three puffers, Neon Puffers? I think. They were we're just too good looking to pass up for $2.98 for on or 3 for $6. My brother is going to take one, and I'm going to try to put them in my 55 once they get a little bigger. They are great at keeping pests out of the tank. I looked for some plants and the few stores I went to today didn't have any. So once I can get a little more cash I'll probably just order some online.


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## underwatergirl (Nov 26, 2012)

I recently planted a few ferns, anubius and amazon swords in my 40G with pfs. Would anyone guess why the 1 leaf of amazon is turning brown at the tip and slowly worsening? It looks burnt, or dried out like a regular plant would without water.
And in my other tank, I have crushed coral/sand substrate...do treat it the same in that tank?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Plants (and swords in particular) are often grown emmersed (out of the water). When you immerse them, the leaves die and new ones grow that are acclimated to growing under water.

You can often tell if your sword leaves were grown emmersed if they stand up when you lower the water as opposed to collapsing with the water level.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

underwatergirl said:


> I recently planted a few ferns, anubius and amazon swords in my 40G with pfs. Would anyone guess why the 1 leaf of amazon is turning brown at the tip and slowly worsening? It looks burnt, or dried out like a regular plant would without water.
> And in my other tank, I have crushed coral/sand substrate...do treat it the same in that tank?


Were these the tube plants from a big chain store? Yeah other then the acclimation period, those plants also have a hard time transitioning from the gel pack on the roots to actual substrate. 2 of my swords are from the tubes, its been a couple months, all the original leaves melted away, but new leaves have regrown in the process. It's take a bit for those plants like DJRansome said.

You may want to add a mixture of eco-complete for the sword though, its more of a root feeder. The anubias, and fern are more leaf feeders, and make sure not to bury the anubias, and fern rhizome, just the roots. If your interested in getting more plants i can PM you a good source for your local area


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## underwatergirl (Nov 26, 2012)

CrypticLifeStyle said:


> underwatergirl said:
> 
> 
> > I recently planted a few ferns, anubius and amazon swords in my 40G with pfs. Would anyone guess why the 1 leaf of amazon is turning brown at the tip and slowly worsening? It looks burnt, or dried out like a regular plant would without water.
> ...


Yup, big chain store in the gel packs. So I knew about the anubius not being "planted" but you're saying the fern also?


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Yeah. Only plant the roots for the ferns. I recently hot glued my fern rhizome to driftwood ( java - trident - Philippine ) and they seem to be growing faster. Java ferns can be weird. Its a easy plant, but been seeing expert growers have issues the more I get into the planted hobby. If I didn't keep fish in my planted tank honestly I'd just let it sit on the substrate with minimal means of keeping it down, and just let it attach itself to the substrate, but since I do keep lots if Geo's I'm hoping, and seeing results if it easily attaching to the driftwood.

If you do choose to use driftwood too I'd let it dry for a day til the surface if the wood is dry, makes the hot gluing work. I placed a good dab on the wood, and instantly pushed the rhizome in it til it cooled, and dried. I have enough ferns to fill a 20L, it actually freed up space in the tank as one of my female redheads made a pit under the wood, and my Cory's are using the fern patch to lay eggs in.


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