# Enantiopus Kilesa - It is time to give it a go.



## des (Mar 30, 2011)

For a long time I have been interested in species Kilesas. I have to thank and give credit to guys like Razzo who has shared beautiful pictures and videos and Benjamin L. Smith with detailed write up on them. So for a long time, I've kept my eyes open for the right opportunity and tank space. The past weekend I emptied an existing 75 gallon (48"x18") put in new sugar grade sand and plan to let the tank run with the old filter for this whole week.

I will have 20-30 Kilesas at approximately 1.5 inch by the end of this month. My plan is to grow them out together and remove extra males.

Questions
1. What is the ideal ratio for a group in a 75 gallon.
2. I read these fish like open substrate space. Do you think 1 or 2 large rocks is enough?
3. Cyprichromis seem to be a popular tank mate. Any other type of fish do well with Kilesas?
4. I'm concerned with their feeding. I don't want to create so much food waste to ensure they all eat. Do you think it is too soon to add small Kilesas to a 75 gallon tank. Am I better off growing them out in a 20 gallon and adding them to the 75 gallon later in the summer?

Any suggestions, tips, ideas would be appreciated. Thank you for reading.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I would give them more bottom space than a 75g.
One male plus a bunch of females long term is all you will prob manage in there though you may well get em breeding before space becomes a problem.
They are short lived fish and you need to breed em quick or lose em.
Personaly I prefer a bigger group of about 10 to 12 in a 60"x18" bottom space then sex mix makes less difference and you can see the males each with there own pit showing off to each other and the females.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Rocks not needed unless to give a sight block in a small tank between males.
Wild bowers are over five foot apart and over a foot wide on open sand. Of caurse in tanks we can get away with less but think 48" is pushing it a bit as the bowers will be real close together.

All the best James


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## SmellinFishy (Mar 17, 2013)

24Tropheus said:


> I would give them more bottom space than a 75g.
> One male plus a bunch of females long term is all you will prob manage in there though you may well get em breeding before space becomes a problem.
> They are short lived fish and you need to breed em quick or lose em.
> Personaly I prefer a bigger group of about 10 to 12 in a 60"x18" bottom space then sex mix makes less difference and you can see the males each with there own pit showing off to each other and the females.
> ...


Hey Tropheus how long is the life span of a kelisa?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

In the wild they grow for about 2-3 years in deaper water come up to sandy shallows then breed together then all die. Maybe just one in 10 recovering enough to try again.
In tanks you can get about 18-24 months of breeding out of em after about a year to 18 months of quick growth. They can then live on not breeding much if at all for up to about 3 years after this. Not kept one alive for over 5 years myself.

All te best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Kind of a big bang species. :lol:


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## SmellinFishy (Mar 17, 2013)

24Tropheus said:


> Kind of a big bang species. :lol:


lol I have a few pair right now and they are now less then ideal conditions, 75 gl with tank mates  .


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Yah, 5 to 7 years is probably max. & might be a stretch. With the right food you might be able to squeeze out 3 years of breeding (max).

48" is mall for these fish. You will probably only get one male digging his pit. In a longer tank you can have multiple pits.

Relatively short life and even shorter breeding life - but TOTALLY worth it! These are one of the most fun fish to watch.

20 to 30 in a 75 gallon tank is OK for growing out fry but way to many as they approach adult size.

Give them a try!

I would be happy to help with any questions (if I am able).

Russ


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## des (Mar 30, 2011)

Thank you for the responses guys.

I'm still running the tank empty while doing water changes mainly to remove the cloud. It's taking longer than I had anticipated. Instructions say clear in 24-48 hours! Not even close...

Adding synodontis multipunctatus a good or bad idea?

What's best for them when it comes to feeding? They were grown to 1.5 inch by the previous owner on shrimp brine. I'm hoping to convert them to flakes using spot feeding with suringe. Your thoughts?


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## Shaky (Jan 2, 2003)

Won't the catfish naturally prey on eventual fry?


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

des said:


> Thank you for the responses guys.
> 
> I'm still running the tank empty while doing water changes mainly to remove the cloud. It's taking longer than I had anticipated. Instructions say clear in 24-48 hours! Not even close...
> 
> ...


Hey 

Food: Here is what I used,... Dainichi Ultima Krill sinking pellets with an occasional treat of frozen mysis. That is about as good as it gets.

Cats: I vote no if you want fry.

Russ


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

If I might tag on a question, basically all images and videos of the species I see show them on powder-fine, white sand. I am usually a great fan of pool filter sand, but would it be too coarse for Enantiopus? In one of my tanks I have black substrate, but I have seen only one video of Enantiopus over black substrate, and it did not look good. I assume they need the reflected light from the white sand below them to make the males sparkle. Is that the experience of people who keep them? If so, what kind of sand do people use for Enantiopus, and where to get it. Please keep in mind that I am cheap


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## SmellinFishy (Mar 17, 2013)

fmueller said:


> If I might tag on a question, basically all images and videos of the species I see show them on powder-fine, white sand. I am usually a great fan of pool filter sand, but would it be too coarse for Enantiopus? In one of my tanks I have black substrate, but I have seen only one video of Enantiopus over black substrate, and it did not look good. I assume they need the reflected light from the white sand below them to make the males sparkle. Is that the experience of people who keep them? If so, what kind of sand do people use for Enantiopus, and where to get it. Please keep in mind that I am cheap


Hey, I keep them with the black n white cichlid sand from pets mart. I don't know how it compares to plays sand but Its a lot larger then the fine white sand.
I think the smaller grain sand holds together better for there castle building.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

SmellinFishy said:


> Hey, I keep them with the black n white cichlid sand from pets mart. I don't know how it compares to plays sand but Its a lot larger then the fine white sand. I think the smaller grain sand holds together better for there castle building.


That looks like it's about the same grain size as PFS. Do they do ok with castle building in that substrate?


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## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

I use pool filter sand in all of my tanks. I have kept kilesa on two different occasions. I have never had a problem with them building their torrets for their nest. You will be fine with the pool filter sand.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

I also have mine over pool filter sand. 33 long species tank with 2m/6f, both males building pits and displaying with females constantly holding.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

This is real 8) to hear. I kept mine with fine play sand but would have loved the easyer cleaning of pool filter sand.
I kind of asked this question before but got no answer. When I go for em again I will know. :thumb:


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Funny thing here in the UK pool filter sand is a rip off. £10-15 plus delivery charge of about the same for 25 Kg.
Far better going for Unipac Aqua Gravel Aquatic Sand - large bag 25kg - New - Aquarium Sand http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unipac-Aqua-G ... 0409399373 at about £4.50. Just picked up a 25 Kg bag at auction for £3 :wink:


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## SmellinFishy (Mar 17, 2013)

fmueller said:


> SmellinFishy said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, I keep them with the black n white cichlid sand from pets mart. I don't know how it compares to plays sand but Its a lot larger then the fine white sand. I think the smaller grain sand holds together better for there castle building.
> ...


Yes I think so, mine have not spawned yet but are really trying.


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## des (Mar 30, 2011)

Good day,

Just an update. Below are couple of cell phone pics I snaped of some of young ones. Not the usual DSLR quality I like to share. It's fun to watch them school today back and forth. They are very jumpy fish when they get scared. Not so great for a living room display. Have a good lid!


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

fmueller said:


> If I might tag on a question, basically all images and videos of the species I see show them on powder-fine, white sand. I am usually a great fan of pool filter sand, but would it be too coarse for Enantiopus? In one of my tanks I have black substrate, but I have seen only one video of Enantiopus over black substrate, and it did not look good. I assume they need the reflected light from the white sand below them to make the males sparkle. Is that the experience of people who keep them? If so, what kind of sand do people use for Enantiopus, and where to get it. Please keep in mind that I am cheap


Frank, I used CaribSea aragamax sugar sized sand (more of a white sand). Very fine (and a little pricey). I thought mine loved playing with it. I have ordered it from Drs Foster & Smith and traded a LFS for fry. If your cheap and you have fry, maybe you can build up a decent store credit with a LFS as a fry supplier?



















I liked this sand so much I am using it in my 240 gallon gibberosa tank. Never used PFS so I can't comment on it.

Russ


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Russ - you are a very bad influence on me - very bad! Those photos you have make the fish look irresistible, and it does certainly look like they interact particularly well with that fine sand. Besides, it seems lighter than the PFS I use, and I have a hunch that lighter sand helps bringing out the colors in the Enantiopus. I'll have to see what I can do about that sand. I have sold fry to LFSs, but I see that more as a charitable contribution to support local business. There are so many fish keepers in NE Ohio and surroundings that selling quality Tanganyikan cichlids is really no trouble - and anybody will give you a better price than LFS 



> I liked this sand so much I am using it in my 240 gallon gibberosa tank.


Do you remember how much you used? I am thinking about putting the Enantiopus in a 240G


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## LouIE82 (Nov 6, 2012)

Holy poop those are cool fish! I had to google to know what you guys were talking about and along come Razzo with the better pics of better fish.

I like the caribsea argamax sand, I've used a few other kinds and my brother uses pool sand but I think the caribsea has been the best. My shellies and my regular tangs like digging around in it and uncover small shells every day. It is a little pricey and the last time I got it there were chopped up dead tube worms in it, but they were easy to remove.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

fmueller said:


> Russ - you are a very bad influence on me - very bad! Those photos you have make the fish look irresistible, and it does certainly look like they interact particularly well with that fine sand. Besides, it seems lighter than the PFS I use, and I have a hunch that lighter sand helps bringing out the colors in the Enantiopus. I'll have to see what I can do about that sand. I have sold fry to LFSs, but I see that more as a charitable contribution to support local business. There are so many fish keepers in NE Ohio and surroundings that selling quality Tanganyikan cichlids is really no trouble - and anybody will give you a better price than LFS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Frank, I am so bad remembering details. I can't recall how much I already had on hand from other tanks. I seem to recall ordering about four extra 30 pound bags. I still have an used bag. In a 240, I would start with 4 bags and see how much coverage you get. Again, I am just really not sure. Best guess, 4 to 6 bags?

I will say, you should rinse well and give it some time to settle. It is really light and can get stirred up easily.

Russ


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Razzo said:


> Frank, I am so bad remembering details. I can't recall how much I already had on hand from other tanks. I seem to recall ordering about four extra 30 pound bags. I still have an used bag. In a 240, I would start with 4 bags and see how much coverage you get. Again, I am just really not sure. Best guess, 4 to 6 bags?


The reason I asked was that I can't for the life of me remember how much sand I put in my 240G last time. I was hoping your memory might be better than mine


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Yep those shots of em playing in fine sand are awesome. Now I am kind of looking for a tan version rather than using PFS (or fine gravel 1mm) as I want to see the same stuff just over something natural tan looking.
Can anyone give the grain size so I can chouse something similar in the UK?
UK this one seems a good selection?
http://www.unipacpet.co.uk/aquatic/aquarium-sand/
Prob different from you US guys?

All the best James


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Caribsea Aragamax™ Sugar‑Sized Sand (0.25 - 1mm)
Another option which I've used in a shellie tank is Caribsea Super Naturals Moonlight Sand (0.25 - 0.75mm) which is a slightly smaller max grain size. This is nearly like icing sugar and is blown about quite easily.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

There seems to be a few kilesa threads on going at this time. I'll post this here as it is somewhat related to the sand question. Below is a "pit" from one male kilesa - this is in a 72 gallon bow front tank. For those trying to cram a group of kilesa in a 20L tank, this is why I will also suggest not to do it. A 6 to-foot tank with a handful of males and double the females is probably ideal. You could get several males displaying at the same time. BTW: this is the aragamax sand.

A male digging his pit, building his sand castles, chasing away other males, displaying for females, and constantly maintaining his pit/castles has got to be one of the most interesting/entertaining behaviors in all of fishdom. Folks, this is a FUN species to have and to watch! I am struggling to think of an equal.

This is from one male and the length of this pit has got to be close to 36"  It would probably be close to 36" by 36" if I had a wider tank.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

BTW: the light was on the side of the tank just so it would cast shadows from the sand castles and be easier to see in these pictures. I don't/didn't normally have the light on the side.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

I've seen that pit in one of the other threads. It is awesome! I want to have something like it in my living room :lol:

I think the fish would have a much harder time building it with PFS. It is also the reason I consider removing the UGJ system from my tank before swapping the sand and stocking the Enantiopus. But how do you keep this very fine sand so clean? Evidently it will be a pain to vacuum, but I guess with all the digging the fish do, they might keep debris moving about until it ends up in the filter. I have a wicket flow rate through my 240G (two Danner MagDrive 18s), and once the constriction imposed by the UGJ is removed, the flow will be even stronger.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

fmueller said:


> I've seen that pit in one of the other threads. It is awesome! I want to have something like it in my living room :lol:
> 
> I think the fish would have a much harder time building it with PFS. It is also the reason I consider removing the UGJ system from my tank before swapping the sand and stocking the Enantiopus. But how do you keep this very fine sand so clean? Evidently it will be a pain to vacuum, but I guess with all the digging the fish do, they might keep debris moving about until it ends up in the filter. I have a wicket flow rate through my 240G (two Danner MagDrive 18s), and once the constriction imposed by the UGJ is removed, the flow will be even stronger.


Frank, almost no waste makes its way down into the sand as it is very fine. In a kilesa tank with not a lot of decorations (as open sandy areas is what they want) waste will usual collect in piles where the flow of the tank leaves them. When I vacuum, I just use the tube and pick up visible waste. Because this sand is so fine you will pick up some sand too - I have just accepted that. Whatever sand I have collected in my five gallon buckets, I combine the sand into one bucket, dump waste water down the drain and then I go back to the tank with the bucket and using a cup, I wash the sand back into the tank from the bucket. A pre filter sponge on your filter intake with a fine sponge will help keep most sand from getting into your filter.

This sand is very fine and light. On a new install it will eventually settle and the tank will be clear. It kicks up easily too.

Hope that helps,
Russ


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## des (Mar 30, 2011)

::Update::
Time flies! 8 months later and all the fish are doing well.

-they are between 2"-2.5" now. The males are slightly larger than females. The ratio appears to be split 1:1 
-they are creating 2-3 distinct pits when I come home from work
-I feed them once a day at the same time I have dinner. They will come right up to the surface for feeding.
-The pits all get messed up shortly after feeding because they will sift through the sand in search of food remaining. Very interesting to watch.

My main struggle right now is the cloudy water from the use of sugar grade sand (extremely fine). It's been very difficult to get the water clear. I do 25% water changes twice a week since the beginning and still having issues with clarity. I may have to look at using finer floss in the filter.

I will try to get some descent photos to share with you all soon.

Thanks.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Congrats on growing these guys out. I once read that the hardest thing about keeping Enanys or Xenos is getting them to 2" 
How many did you start with and how many do you have now? I am going to strip two females next saturday and expect to get around 50 - 60 fry from them.
Hopefully I have better luck keeping them alive than I have in the past. P.S, I use playsand from homer in my tanks, a little heavier than the stuff you are using probably.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

noddy said:


> ...I once read that *the hardest thing about keeping Enanys or, &#8230;, is getting them to 2"* ...


I humbly suggest that,... that is simply not true.

I had no trouble getting my kilesa fry to 2" The hardest thing with kilesa fry is to make sure you secure the top of the tank because they will launch, like a scud missile. I had to learn to approach the tank slowly, let them settle, and then do maintenance. What do you attribute your previous losses to? Maybe there is something we can help you tweak and improve your survival rate??? One more random thing that came to mind - kilesa DO NOT tolerate even small pH swings. Use a reservoir tank for your water changes and your new water will be pretreated/tempered to the desired conditions. I just want to repeat, I had minimal losses with my kilesa fry (99% survival rates). Hope this will help increase your survival rates.

Cheers,
Russ


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

des said:


> ::Update::
> Time flies! 8 months later and all the fish are doing well.
> 
> -they are between 2"-2.5" now. The males are slightly larger than females. The ratio appears to be split 1:1
> ...


They are fun to watch 

Not sure why your sand does not settle. Mine did.

Russ


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Razzo said:


> noddy said:
> 
> 
> > ...I once read that *the hardest thing about keeping Enanys or, &#8230;, is getting them to 2"* ...
> ...


Hey Russ, I know you have had great success with your Kilesa fry, I have had very little tbh. I will send you a pm at some point over the weekend if that's o.k
The p.h thing has me wondering though.

Cheers

Paul


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

noddy said:


> Razzo said:
> 
> 
> > noddy said:
> ...


You bet Paul! I would be happy to try and help.

Russ


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## des (Mar 30, 2011)

noddy said:


> How many did you start with and how many do you have now?


I started with 20, sold a pair and now have 18. When would be a good time to start removing the extra males?


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