# new dwarf mbuna tank



## mrlilfish90 (Apr 1, 2015)

I just setup my 75 gallon tank and I'm planning on starting with 3 elongatus chewere juveniles and 3 ps. Saulosi juveniles. I've done a fair amount of research on various mbunas but I really like the coloring of these two fish as well as the good things people have said about them. I want and expect to have an active tank with these species but I have never kept any type of african cichlid, i only have experience with south American cichlids. Mainly convicts which I have had multiple generations of.

So my questions are for anyone who has kept saulosi and/or chewere. Do you see any major problems with this pairing starting off?

Also what would be other good species to keep with the saulosi and chewere?

I know that the mbunas get along best with a somewhat crowded community of fish to keep things fair and balanced between fish (no one gets picked on to much) and I plan to get at least 3 more of each species of fish in the next few weeks to month if all goes well. I'm also aware of the aggression among the same species if the male to female ratios are off. And am prepared to do needed weeding and sorting when I can determine the sexes

I've been told that if all my fish of a species are the same sex then the aggression won't be nearly as bad within the species As if there were both sexes, even with proper ratios,is that true?

any input is appreciated. Thanks y'all!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Welcome to the forum!

When stocking juveniles, you generally cannot determine sex. Fish like P. Saulosi tend to show males earlier than most, but that usually starts around the 1.75-2" range. You'll need to up your initial numbers. Even with the more mild species, ending up with 4 females should be the goal. For a good shot at that, you'll need to start with 8. I like getting 10 of a species when they are unsexed. Elongatus types such as Chewere can be quite aggressive. Some would suggest up to 7 females per male. I'd buy at least a dozen to start.

In a 75, think 3-4 species total.


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## mrlilfish90 (Apr 1, 2015)

Ok thanks. those sounds like good numbers to shoot for. Have you ever tried keeping these fish together? I'm afraid they may look to similar?

And what's the deal with cross breeding. I know it's undesirable but can any mbuna mate with another or do they need to be of similar genus or subfamily or whatever. All I keep hearing is that you don't want similar looking females but I can't find the details


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You don't want similar looking fish of either gender. I would not keep two blue barred species in one tank. Any mouthbrooder (most Malawi) can spawn with any other mouthbrooder regardless of species. But if you avoid look-alikes and same-genus fish, and also provide enough females/male...crossbreeding risk is minimal and acceptable.


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## mrlilfish90 (Apr 1, 2015)

Ok thanks. I know that chewere and saulosi males can look similar which can cause some aggression between the males of the two species but with the females looking so differ sent from each other there should be any risk of cross breeding is ther e? Since the males do the courting?


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## mrlilfish90 (Apr 1, 2015)

*****shouldn't be any risk of cross breeding because of differences in the females?******


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Always a risk. The more similarities, the higher the risk. Different females does not eliminate risk.

Also similar males can view each other as competition and fight. The ideal of no look-alikes is not restricted to no female look-alikes.


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## mrlilfish90 (Apr 1, 2015)

Ok. But keeping enough females of each species should help to minimize the risk theoretically? I really like both species and I currently have only 1 tank big enuf to happily keep these fish, plus I have already placed my order at the LFS. The super aggressive behavior shouldn't really start until they start to become more mature tho right? That would give me enough time to set up proper arrangements for these Lil guy. Starting with six 1" juvies in the average 4 ft 75 gallon tank this week to ease into the N cycle.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Oh not a problem as long as you don't save fry. Depending on size at purchase, they can hold at 1.5" but more likely things will become active at 2" (including tail).

With 6 juveniles and 3 of each species you will likely have trouble anyway unless you luck out and get all females because with 1m:2f or even worse 2m:1f the females are likely to be harassed. Not enough of them to spread aggression.

Maybe you are going to add 6 more in a month? And 12 more in 2 months? And maybe even more elongatus in 3 months? You want to get at least 7 elongatus females and 4 saulosi females before or at the same time as the males start courting for their health


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## mrlilfish90 (Apr 1, 2015)

Thanks dj well my fish came in. 2 died before I could pick them up from the local so I now have 3 saulosi and 1 chewere. It's tough to tell but it appears I have 2m and 1f saulosi and the chewere seems to be male. They r getting along great for the time being but the chewere seems to be head honcho of the tank. From what I've read the chewere will be more aggressive so it seems right.

I might hold off for a minute before I get any more fish. But I would like to get fish that are already sexed. Any suggestions on where I can purchase some from?


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## Raiderdane (Sep 23, 2013)

Both species are Beautiful, and you should have success keeping both. I have had success in the past, but I had around 12-15 Saulosi and 6 Chewere to start, weeded out the Males. They will get used to each other growing up together, chasing, but not really harming each other. I would suggest to set up your rock work into the 2 section build, meaning one section on the right, one section on the left, and an open area in the middle. The Male Chewere will be different enough from the Male Saulosi, so you should be fine with them not crossbreeding. The numbers are what matters. Buy enough to start out with and go from there. Your Elongatus will grow a little bit bigger than the Saulosi, but if you end up with 1 Male - 3 or 4 Females, should be good. Will be a fun tank to watch!!


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## mrlilfish90 (Apr 1, 2015)

Is there any way to distinguish males from females anatomically? With them being so young I cannot be certain what's what when it comes to colors. And I'm not totally sure even when it comes to colors. My 3 saulosi are all chasing each other. And the one I believed to be female has its own little cave it sort of defends frequently while the other 2 just roam most times. Those 2 are more pale with dark edged dorsal fins. Saulosi are only 1.5" long tho.
And thanks for the tank setup info. Right now I have rock work on right side of tank and the left side mostly open except a few small stones on the gravel. Figure I will change the setup and add more after I add new fish to throw off the established and give the newbies fair chance to settle in.

Is it strange that my 3 saulosi spend most of their time in the open half of the tank where there's only really gravel? The chewere has staked his claim but there's plenty on rock work that the chew could careless about for the sauls to make their own


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## ibfishing (Mar 20, 2015)

I have 6 Saoulisi in my tank right now. they are all close to 2 inches and spend pretty much all their time swimming in the open with nobody really chasing. One of mine is changing colors already, definitely male, and I suspect a couple others are male too. I'm new to them as well but the males will turn a nice blue with black while the females remain yellow. Not sure if that helps you or not.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

How did the fish die at the store?
If these are the only fish you are stocking, order a dozen more of each.


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## mrlilfish90 (Apr 1, 2015)

Idk the fish were dead in their bags when they got there or something. I plan to stock more species of fish but don't know what to stock. I want to add some more colors to the tank than just blue and yellow. Any suggestions?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd up the numbers of the saulosi and chewere before adding any other species.


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## mrlilfish90 (Apr 1, 2015)

Just an update on my tank for all of you out there who care lol. I ordered more saulosi and chewere but something happened and they sent different fish instead of the saulosi. They looked more like some kind of haps. With the 3 new chews, I now have 4 chewere, my original one being the largest at about 2" and still my 3 saulosi, all about 1.5". I plan to get more saulosi next week as long as my water keeps testing well which I expect it will.

I've been reading around and getting mixed reviews on plecos. I've heard synodontis cats are good for algae and leftover food but those aren't really my thing. Call me stubborn. My LFS recommended a Chinese A.E. still I'm wanting a pleco. I really like them. I know they aren't high ph fish but I've read they can tolerate it. My water has been testing at 8.0

So firstly how much success do yall think I'll have with a bristlenose pleco with my Africans?

Secondly what do yall think about keeping some maingano and/or acei in the future with my sauls and chews? I think the 4 will be my only species of cichlids in my 75 gallon when I'm finished and fully stocked. Any input on the match ups?

Of course there will be some weeding out to do at some point to get the m/f ratios right but I'm prepared and thankfully my LFS said they could help me out if they have proper tank space when the time comes.
thanks again everyone


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

The BN pleco will have a better shot when the mbuna are small. So add it now.

Are you ordering your fish through the LFS? Why only 3 more Chewere?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Those 4 sound good. Get 7 females for elongatus and maingano.


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## mrlilfish90 (Apr 1, 2015)

Well I ordered more saulosi as well but they sent the wrong fish. And yes I got them thru my LFS . Thanks for the info I'll work on the bristle nose. And then filling my ratios. Is venting the process of removing males? I hear that term tossed around a bit


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You can vent to ID males for removal. Even on examination of the vent, mistakes can be made and/or the gender may not be clear. I observe behavior and when a sub-dom male is ostracized by the tank mates, I remove him.


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