# Can a fish survive being bagged for more than 48 hours?



## WowieM

Hello Everyone I just want to know how long can a fish survive being bagged given that it is properly oxygenated with pure oxygen and packed by an experienced Shipper.

Recently i Imported fish from Germany and experienced massive deaths only a fourth of the fishes survived, the fishes stayed in the bag for at least 40 hours.

So now I'm getting the replacement Fishes for the DOa and will be having the same dilemma again since the shipper wont ship in a flight that is convenient to both of us and safe for the fishes. So the fish would stay bagged again for 48 hours more or less. the fishes are Tanganyikan Cichlids.

I really want to know as taxes and shipping cost really hurts my pocket also the stress of loosing the fishes takes its toll as a hobbyist.

Also if ever they arrive what is the best thing to do? Drip or Dump them
Both with squirt of Anti Ammonia

Sorry for the extra long post i really just want to be sure this time as there are stories here that fish survive more than 2 days in Transit.


----------



## Fogelhund

Dump them. I've seen 98% of fish survive when shipped 72 hours... if properly prepared and bagged well.


----------



## smellsfishy1

The thing that usually kills fish in transfer is the build up of ammonia.
You can try bag buddies or Prime or whatever detox product but they usually only work up to 24-48 hours.
You also have to consider the diminished level of o2.
The best thing to do is have them bagged tight with o2, use a detox product, and have the least amount of fish in each bag as possible.

As soon as you get them remove from the bag and place in a container or quarantine tank.
If temp. matches you should be good to go.
Just make sure you detox the water they are in or get them in some clean water.


----------



## WowieM

Thanks for all the glimmer of hope i really just dont want to see so many dead fish
AS i have an incoming shipment next week so I am both pretty excited and very scared again to see another disaster that might happen.

Will advise the Shipper on the anti ammonia thanks guys.


----------



## BillD

Fish will survive much longer than that in Kordon breather bags.


----------



## WowieM

Fogel hound: I would dump them immediately how about the pH difference would it matter?


----------



## Fogelhund

WowieM said:


> Fogel hound: I would dump them immediately how about the pH difference would it matter?


Tested ph in bags that have been shipped for 72 hours... it was scaringly low... less than 6. I would just dump, in most cases it is better than the water they are in.


----------



## WowieM

Thanks Fogel I would squirt then dump them when they arrive next week Maybe i was just reallly unlucky the last time.


----------



## prov356

Just thought I'd toss in my experience. I used to drip acclimate, but changed over to net and dump. I don't suffer losses as a result, and I've done this with literally hundreds of tanganyikans. Many risks to drip acclimating that are often not stated. You're wise to use the 'anti-ammonia' product if you do drip acclimate because raising the pH when dripping also raises the toxicity of the ammonia. At very low pH levels, most ammonia exists as 'bound' ammonia, or ammonium which is not toxic. The higher you raise the pH, the more ammonia is freed into the toxic form. Free ammonia will kill a fish, but I've never seen changes in pH do any harm. I've also never seen slight changes in temp do any harm either. I even net and dump same day air shipments. Bag water gets nasty in a hurry.

Just my .02


----------



## WowieM

Thanks For the inputs guys I hope i wont experience the deaths this shipment again


----------



## tires_6792

i usually get a 5 gallon bucket and empty the shipped bags in there. i will then add a little Prime to it. I do this to keep any spikes from happening or keep it to a minimum.

I will then put in some tank water little by little every 10-15 minutes until the volume has doubled. The i pour out some and do it again. I do this a few times and then add to tank.

Too me this is the safest way for fish that have been in bags for a longer period of time. Especially if several in the same bag.

Fish are pretty tough. Alot may depend on species as well.

PH shock can affect fish even a while after acclimating them.

If the fish look to be gasping really bag out of the bag then you could also use an air stone in the bucket as well.

With this type of question you will get many answers. Its ultimately up to you which one you use as everyone is different.

Also, sounds to me that the shipper doesnt really care about the service to you. If bad luck this time, i would just forget about them in the future or at least until they work it out for YOU, the customer, when the best is time to ship.


----------



## cjacob316

i think it's the heat right now, i just lost some of a shipment i got, and it's the first time i've had dead fish from this shipper, it was noticeably hot in the bag and the ice pack was warm


----------



## BillD

Lets keep in mind what happens to the water in shipping. CO2 saturates the water causing the pH to drop. This works well to keep ammonia in the form of nontoxic ammonium. When the bag is opened the CO2 gasses off quickly and you have a sudden rise in pH. This in itself is not harmful, but the rise in pH causes the ammonium to become ammonia, and this is the hazard. Drip acclimation just makes it worse.


----------



## tires_6792

> When the bag is opened the CO2 gasses off quickly and you have a sudden rise in pH. This in itself is not harmful, but the rise in pH causes the ammonium to become ammonia, and this is the hazard.


This is why i like to add the Prime to the water.


----------



## WowieM

Ok guys so the drip method is recommended even if the fish is bagged for a very long time


----------



## Fogelhund

WowieM said:


> Ok guys so the drip method is recommended even if the fish is bagged for a very long time


Opinions vary. Some dump, some drip. Personally, I dump.


----------



## tires_6792

Theres basically 2 choices. drip or dump.

but so many variables:

what species? ( _hardy or sensitive _)
size?
wild?
ph of water shipped
ph of your acclimating water
temp of bag water
temp of acclimating water
length of time in bag
condition of fish (gasping or possibly beaten or weak if aggressive species in same bag)

Its basically trial and error considering some or all of this. Just depends on the person acclimating.

I had a buddy that would buy fish for his saltwater tank and just dump em in. I thought: "WOW! i thought you were supposed to drip these fish because of the possible salinity variance?". im not sure i wouldve done it the same way but..he never had a loss doing this which i thought was pretty unbelievable.


----------



## prov356

By some, but definitely not by me. Your call


----------



## WowieM

is this a good idea? if i would have the bags opened and put some anti ammonia the reoxygenate the bag at the transhipper?


----------



## WowieM

because from the international airport it would then be again shipped to in a domestic flight.


----------



## WowieM

Did the dump method To most of the fish and they are now settling in the tank.

Hope they would be Ok i saw first hand the advantages of the dump on the F0 fronts as i opened the bag they scampered to be out of the water so just dumped them immediately hope the fishes would be ok as they have been on the tank for only an hour or so. The fishes are still a little buzzed from the tranq and from the trip.


----------



## prov356

> Did the dump method


Hope you meant net and dump. Don't dump bag water into the tank. No big deal if you've done that already, but better not to.


----------



## WowieM

yup I only dumped the fish  not the water


----------



## soulpride

i got some multies shellies that was shipped to me it took 3 days. all the fish was alive and in great condition. :thumb: one of the breeder test a acei and afra cobue that was 1" to 1.5" in a breather bag for 3 days the fish was doing great. :lol:


----------



## DrTim's

I agree with BillD, who is right on with the sequence of events, and others - dump them.
Dripping etc will just prolong their exposure to high ammonia.


----------



## justflow1983

For those of you that dump... Do you at least temperature equalize first? I'm thinking of the old floating bag method.


----------



## DrTim's

It all depends on the shape of the fish and the temperature difference. If there is a huge temperature difference say 10C (18F) than you have to consider equalizing first. But if there are dead fish in the bag and the water is really filthy then best to get the fish out and take your chances.

Also depends on the fish - rainbows seems to not be able to handle temperature differences very well.


----------



## Number6

DrTim's said:


> It all depends on the shape of the fish


I must be more tired than I thought I was... I read that and (for a millisecond) I thought what the heck does the shape of the fish have to do with anything?

then the brain cells actually fired...  condition of the fish... not shape like Discus vs mbuna... 

Now that brain is engaged, I second Dr. Tim's warning... the safe course of action varies from species to species and should be based on the shape/condition of the individual fish! There are many fish that do fine even when the temps shift and then there are fish that will not handle that well at all. Malawi (IME and generally) seem to handle temp shifts better than say Tanganyikans do.

Hope that helps.


----------



## DrTim's

Actually when I read your post for a second I thought "I wrote shape of the fish" - what the?

Condition is a better word! Thanks for adding that. Can a post be edited; is that ok to do?


----------



## Number6

Yes, you can edit a post provided the edit button is still active. It gives you a window to make edits before locking down.

If it's still active in the top right corner of your post above, feel free to edit. If it only says Quote and Report, then it's past the window of time.

Shape was fine to use, but condition is definitely more clear in a quick read! :lol:


----------



## DrTim's

thanks - it only says Quote and Report but now I know.

Well, at least I jarred both our brains a little!


----------



## soulpride

edit window is only 1 hr after that 1 hour time frame is up u can't edit it anymore.


----------



## cgmark

It is possible for them to live a lot longer than 48 hours of course I wouldn't recommend it. 
I bought some fish that got lost in shipping. They were shipped on a wed. and supposed to arrive the next day. Thursday came and went, no fish. Friday,Saturday, Sunday nothing, Monday morning I got the package. Expecting dead fish I opened the box to find two females alive and one male alive, only one of the males was dead. These were electric blue about 2" for the female and 3" for the males.

I quickly removed the bags and tore the tops open and placed air stones in the bags while I floated the bags in a quarantine tank. Later I released them and it took about a week, but they recovered completely and are alive to this day.


----------



## audierou

No. Open the bag. Net and dump.


----------



## rennsport2011

audierou said:


> No. Open the bag. Net and dump.


Random thread resurrection from the dead.


----------



## MeganMcGuire

I am a newbie, so take this for what it is worth.... I ordered fish from Daves Rare Aquarium Fish in San Antonio, TX. I am in Wisconsin. The fish were shipped over night, but FEDEX had mechanical problems with 2 planes and the fish didn't arrive until the following day - so at least 48 hrs in the bag. All were fine. I have discovered that a couple have nipped fins and a scale missing, but everyone is basically healthy and happy. That said, I was nervous wreck until I got them.


----------



## Kanorin

I've shipped fish, granted they were juveniles and single-bagged, that got lost in the mail and made it alive to their destination 8 days later.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle

rennsport2011 said:


> audierou said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Open the bag. Net and dump.
> 
> 
> 
> Random thread resurrection from the dead.
Click to expand...

I once stayed at a Holiday Inn Express....
Honestly though, I think a spammer brought this thread back to life and the post has since been deleted.

8 days Kanorin? Thats pretty impressive.


----------



## DrgRcr

I've had several bags take 3 days for one reason or another and all survived.


----------

