# Cynotilapia Afra "Hai Reef"



## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

Does anyone have these, or have experience with them? I'm looking into getting some for my 38 gallon tank which will also house Pseudotropheus sp. Flamebacks. I couldn't find much info on them, so I was just wondering how big they will get.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Those are big fish for a 38G tank.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

I have the Hai Reefs, and so does Fishboy11. These don't get real big but it'll depend on how many you are goin to but in that 38 gallon. Like many Cynotilapia, the Hai Reefs are a dwarf mbuna but they still "pack a punch". I've had some of my juveniles stand up to other Cyno's 1.5 to 2 times their size.


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## justin323 (Nov 29, 2006)

Definetly my little male keeps half of a four foot tank to himself.


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## fishboy11 (Jul 13, 2005)

These are an awesome fish. They would make for a great species tank. Pilotscove has a ton of fry available. I will show u his old breeder male...then shots of my nicest male!

























If u wanna do a species tank...i would recommend getting about 15 fry from pilotscove...maybe 20. Keep 4 males and the rest females....


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## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

Thanks everyone. I was originally planning on doing 7 hai reefs and 5 flamebacks, but I might just keep it a species only tank.

Fishboy, that male looks exactly like the picture of the father of the fish that I'm getting. I got them off of aquabid from a guy in North Carolina.

I worked out a deal with the guy so I am getting 10 juvies instead of 6. I figured that would hopefully give me a good m/f ratio.

How big will they get? I assumed they were about the same as most of the cynotilapia afra's and would only get about 3".


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## pilotscove (Jan 6, 2002)

Morgan thats the father of your fish, He's 3.5". female 3". Scott


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## nick a (Apr 9, 2004)

Beautiful fish!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You don't want to put the flamebacks in that size tank with other fish! The males are brutal, and you will need alot of space for the females to hide out and escape. I've had as hard of a time keeping females alive for my male flameback as I did with my auratus!

Great choice in afra, though!

Kim


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## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

I thought that fish looked familiar  In fact, there was another auction for Hai Reefs that had 8 fish for the same price, but their male didn't look near as good as yours.

Cichlidaholic, are the flamebacks really aggressive then? From what I've read it seemed like they weren't too bad. I just emailed another breeder to find out if he has any juvies right now so that I could add the hai reefs and flamebacks together, but maybe I better stick with just the afras. I thought if I added them together as juvies I would have a better chance of them getting along, and then once they are able to be sexed I would thin them out a bit.


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## fishboy11 (Jul 13, 2005)

I got these guys from Scott as well...he is in SC....i have 5m/2f...and they do well in my 90g mbuna tank with 2m/5f polits, 3m/4f msobo magunga, 3m/6f yellow labs, and 7 F1 Pseudotropheus Manda Dolphin. Mine are very nice...both females currently holding...this is an awesome species


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## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

Fishboy, do your males stay colored up all the time, or is there just one dominant male? I'm trying to decide if I can keep more than one male in my tank. I am hoping to get 5 Flamebacks (1m/4f) and 7 Hai Reefs (2m/5f), along with a bristlenose plec for algae. There will be plenty of hiding places because I am going to be making a big cave structure out of flagstone that will cover the back of the tank, and slope around the one corner. I also am prepared to remove fish if necessary.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

My male flameback is a terrorist. He is the most aggressive male I've kept besides the auratus. I just want to thump him on the head and tell him to straighten up! Perhaps if we could keep some females alive for him, he might eventually mellow, but he's bad enough that we're seriously considering getting rid of him!

He sure does look good while he's tearing up a tank, though!









The remaining female we have is just as bad aggression wise...The meeker ones got wiped out by her and the male. They will eventually kill each other or spawn!  (Both are about 4 1/2 inches, but they've had this attitude since they hit about 3 inches!)

Maybe mine just need some anger management classes, but they are so bad that right now they are in a 40G breeder alone, I've moved them several times and they just won't play nice!

Kim


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## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

Wow  The guy that I am looking at getting them from said that he doesn't think they are any more aggressive than other pseudotropheus species. But its kinda hard to judge because not many people have them, and I can't find hardly any info on them. The profile on here says "mildly aggressive". I definitely only plan on having one male with at least 4 females. I guess I'll just try it and see but I will be ready to remove them if they get too aggressive. Thanks for the heads up.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If you get them all when they are small, you might be okay. Mine were about 2 1/2 inches when I got them, and he has ruled every tank he's been in at my house. I have kept alot of Pseudotropheus' and this guy is by far the worse, but it's different for everyone! He has really intimidated some of my Cynotilapias, and that is why he's all alone for now!

They are gorgeous, but you are right, not many people have them, so it's hard to know what to expect. I could just bring out the worse in these two! 

Kim


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## fishboy11 (Jul 13, 2005)

Only the dominant male keeps his stripes full time, but the other males still look great. With enough cover and plenty of females they would make a nice species tank...whatever u do...good luck with them...and most of all enjoy


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## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

Does anyone know if these two species will inter-breed? I don't really want to have to deal with hybrid fry. Also, is it better to strip the female after 3 weeks, or move her to a seperate tank and let her spit them?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Pseudotropheus (flamebacks) and Cynotilapia (afra) should not interbreed if you have adequate males and females of each species.

I still believe you'll have a hard time keeping flamebacks in with afra in the 38G tank...I don't think your afra will colour up to their full potential.

You're going to need a seperate tank to house the females in while they are holding, unless you have alot of females for each male. Holding females will be harrassed pretty severely if you don't. You'll also need the seperate tank for the fry if you plan to grow them out. Whether you strip or not is up to you.

Kim


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## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

I plan on having at least 4 females and only one flameback male. We are in the process of building a cave structure that is about 26" long x 8" wide, and it wraps around the corner of the tank. There will be at least 15 caves in it. I have a 5.5 gallon tank in the basement that I could use for fry, or I could get a 10 gallon or 20 long instead. I figured if I start getting a bunch of fry then I would get a bigger growout tank. Thanks for the help.


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## mbunamanz (Feb 3, 2007)

I have a lions cove and blue reef afra. The girls look just as lovely as the dudes. Rock on Afras


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Do you have someone who can accurately sex the flamebacks for you? Subdominant males can really truly fool you, and 2 in that tank would be deadly. You do realize that the females are very drab, right?

Good luck! Hopefully, yours won't be as psychotic as mine are!

Kim


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## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

No I don't have anyone that knows how to sex them, I guess I'll just have to post pics and rely on you guys to help me out! They are going to be about 1"-1.25" when I get them, how soon can you tell if they are male or female?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Mine were larger than that when I got them, and you could already tell their by their colouration who was the dominant male. I believe one of my "females" was a subdom male, since he killed it within a couple of weeks. They were about 3 inches and the fish in question looked identical to the females. :-? And, one of my remaining females can look just like the male when she squabbles with another species female.

In other words, you'll have to wait until they spawn if you can't vent! 

Your dominant male will be a nice white with orange showing through here and there, more so when he's excited or angry. The females and subdom males will be a dull tan colour, with a very faint orange tint to their dorsal.

Not many people keep this species...I'm starting to understand why! 

Kim


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## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

LOL thanks.

I just got them and the flamebacks are quite a bit bigger than the hai reefs. The hai reefs are about 1", and a couple of the flamebacks are pushing 1.5". Should I release the smaller ones first, then add the larger ones a little later? The only other option I have is to put the larger flamebacks in the 5.5 gallon for a few days, to let the smaller ones get settled.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

How many of each do you have?

If the tank isn't cycled, I would just add a few at a time.

Kim


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## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

The tank has been empty for about a month, but I never emptied the filter so there should only be a mini-cycle if anything. I filled the tank up this morning and started the filter (XP2), then I added 5 white clouds and a male bn plec. I got 20 fish altogether, 11 HR's and 9 FB's. I drip acclimated them to my water, then added the HR's. They are really cute! Then I added the smaller of the FB's, and put the larger ones in my 5.5 gallon tank. About 3 hours later I added three of the larger FB's, including the biggest one. The other one I left in the 5.5 gallon by itself because its not looking too good. It has clamped fins and is resting on the bottom of the tank.

So far, everyone is hanging out together. I fed them some crushed flakes and they all went crazy trying to get them. The big FB isn't paying much attention to the other fish.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Be careful! If the tank was sitting without fish for a month then you are in for more than a "mini cycle"! It will have to completely recycle, and that is a huge fishload to do it with.

Kim


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## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

Yeah, I plan on doing small water changes daily for at least the next week just in case. I would like to remove the white clouds and put them back in the 5.5 gallon, but I can't catch them!


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

A 38gallon is a tight squeeze for even just one of those species. Put them together and you will have a tough time of it. Between the aggression and the water quality issues its going to be a real PITA. I have 6 Cynotilapia afra "Jallo Reef" (2m/4f) in my 75 with some socilofi, labs and black acei and at three inches the dom male afra rules. The male socolofi (not know to be pussycats) run from him even though they are almost 6in. He has brutalized and killed 2 Copadochomis borleyi males in the past 6 months as well. (they were full 7.5in adults).


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## nick a (Apr 9, 2004)

> The tank has been empty for about a month, butI never emptied the filter so there should only be a mini-cycle if anything. I filled the tank up this morning and started the filter (XP2),


Was your xP sitting, not running & full of debris, for a month?


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## MOsborne05 (Mar 12, 2007)

Yes, I didn't clean it out and I left it full of water. I figured that way there would still be some beneficial bacteria in it.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

MOsborne05 said:


> Yes, I didn't clean it out and I left it full of water. I figured that way there would still be some beneficial bacteria in it.


Having fish in the tank, feeding them, and them producing waste in turn is what keeps your beneficial bacteria going.

I would be really concerned over having the tank sit there stagnant for that amount of time and just starting it back up and adding a huge fish load as you did.

You're going to want to keep a really close grip on things, and be very diligent with your testing.

Kim


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## markd (Jun 26, 2007)




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