# Fish flashing and I can't find a reason why.



## GuitarShark (May 28, 2019)

You have probably seen me post things about flashing on this forum before. A little background. I have 75 gallon mixed Cichlid tank that is mostly mbuna. I have had, over the past year, constant flashing issues. I have tried everything. I have added prazipro, general cure, and melafix to no avail. I have tested ph, nitrate, ammonia, nitrite, gh, and kh with nothing popping up that was irregular. I took water into my LFS and they found nothing bad. I have even added a bunch of plants and upped water changes. My fish are still flashing. Here are all of the symptoms. Cloudy eye, flashing as I have said, and white cuts, scars, and bruises. They also will twitch their fins in a sort of spasm. My fish are eating and get excited to see me, but are always in a painful state that I can't figure out the solution too. Please help.


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## GuitarShark (May 28, 2019)

Also wanted to point out that I have had 0 deaths from whatever is causing this.


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## GuitarShark (May 28, 2019)

Got some more photos of my fish. It is easiest to see the eye and scaring on my large bumblebee.


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## fishboy75 (Jan 16, 2020)

I have had the exact same problems for years in my tank and like you have tried everything I or anyone else could think of. I do 80% water changes twice a week to maintain pristine water quality. So when a fish gets a cloudy eye or cut from flashing it usually heals up on its own in a couple days. The last thing I tried was potassium permanganate. It didn't work but I will say the tank has never looked more crystal clear. It is very dangerous and you can easily overdose and kill your fish. Because it didn't work for me I'm not suggesting you try it. I consulted with a vet online who posts videos on YouTube, Dr. Erick Johnson. He said best guess for a parasite that would constantly annoy fish but not necessarily kill them would be gill or skin flukes. I have long suspected that's what it was but I have tried Prazi-Pro multiple times and it hasn't worked. I found a vet in my area who has treated fish and other exotic pets and I'm actually bringing in one of my yellow labs tomorrow. I'm hoping he will be able to take a skin and gill scrape and find out what parasite it is under a microscope. I'm praying he finds something because I don't know what else it could possibly be. I will let you know what happens tomorrow.


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## GuitarShark (May 28, 2019)

Thanks for the comment! Would appreciate it if you kept me updated on your cichlids.


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## fishboy75 (Jan 16, 2020)

So we'll have to wait a little longer to hopefully find out an answer. The vet took a gill sample and didn't see anything unusual and said the fish looked healthy. So he euthanized the fish and is sending it out for a full necropsy to Cornell University. Said with fish it's one of 3 things: parasites, bacteria or fungus. Could be more than one at a time and when you treat for one aspect it's possible you're missing the other. Cost $350 but will be worth it if I get an answer. For the record the wife doesn't think it's worth it. I'll post results when I get them.


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## Idech (Nov 8, 2020)

Thank you for sharing your experience.


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## GuitarShark (May 28, 2019)

I appreciate the response. Hope you find an answer.


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## Arianna777 (Jul 10, 2020)

Ye you should divorce your wife definitely


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## Idech (Nov 8, 2020)

Arianna777 said:


> Ye you should divorce your wife definitely


That's a little drastic isn't it ?


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## fishboy75 (Jan 16, 2020)

First off, I apologize for taking this long to come back to the forum and share my results. Got caught up Covid craziness and really didn't have the time or desire to post. Then when I finally came back to the forum it was completely different so that initially turned me off. After getting used to the makeover I have started to post again but had trouble finding old threads. Finally found this one and I'm ready to report my results. The necropsy of my fish came back with...nothing. No parasites or bacterial or fungal issues. The vet was actually apologetic that he couldn't help me find an answer and that he was willing to do whatever it took to find out what the problem was. The yellow lab that I caught and sacrificed wasn't one of my fish that was exhibiting the symptoms as strongly as others. So I tore my tank apart and caught three fish that I was 100% sure flashed the most frequently and had the twitching and spastic behavior. The vet has some connections at Cornell and was able to get me a 3 for 1 deal on necropsies on the 3 fish. For what it's worth he never charged me an office visit or anything for his time and just the fee that the lab at Cornell charged which I think is pretty cool. These three fish also came back with no parasitic, bacterial or fungal issues. He was again apologetic that he couldn't get closure for me on the situation. Fast forward to July 4th of 2021. Long story short my 265 had a very slow leak from the front left corner. I was very lucky to find it before I went to bed that night (dog pooped on the floor next to the tank haha) or I could have woken up to a disaster the next morning. Was up until 5 AM draining the tank and setting up new tanks and 40 gallon containers for the fish to be moved into. When I got all the fish out and was able to completely drain it there was a horrible sewage like smell. I had used egg crate as a base for my rockwork when I set the tank up 13 years ago. Well, alot of sand had caked together in the holes of the egg crate and was a dark brown color instead of white. It absolutely reeked! I wound up buying a 125 and moved my haps, peacocks, clown loaches, Synodontis multipunctatus and 8 yellow labs into it. I gave about 50 yellow labs away to a local fish store. After getting the fish situated in their new tank I have yet to observe the constant flashing, twitching or spasms that I had witnessed for years in the 265. I used the same filters, heater, rocks and plastic plants in the new aquarium. I left it bare bottom just because I was in a rush to set it up and it was now in the basement and not my living room. So I had to assume the problem was coming from the egg crate and the sand. In the meantime I had also found the website www.aquariumscience.org and had been poring through the articles on it. In the section on substrates, the author talks about a condition that can occur where the substrate can become hypoxic. This is a part of the substrate where there is no flow, leading to a very low oxygen level where bacterial toxins can occur. When this gets stirred up it can irritate the fish and even cause deaths. I really think this is what occurred in my tank but the reason I didn't have deaths was because of the large volume of my tank, the bi-weekly large water changes I did and also the fact I wasn't able to get under rhe rocks to disturb the sand as much. Guitarshark, do you have egg crate in your tank or possible areas where the sand bed could be clogged in the same manner?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the update on your necropsy results, unfortunate there were no findings.

Interesting regarding your tank findings with the tear down and the smelly sand caked in the egg crate under the rocks. Very well could be the cause.


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## Colzilla090 (Nov 15, 2021)

I reckon its the lights. *** had those bendy led strip lights you can get from amazon and such on my tank when i had no spare t5s before and I noticed my fish would fight more under green light and under the dark glowy blue they were flashing quiet a bit..*** seen my fish flash when i put a new rock in the way or disturb the pit. *** even seen them rage out and sort of nuzzle there face in the sand! Nuts!
What im getting at is perhaps you cant find an illness because there isnt one? I whole heartedly feel for you dead ended medical route but usually an illness manifests itself i was thinking flukes when you said about cloudy eye an scrapes, i feel there secondary from the flashing. Maybe the lights hurting there eyes?


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## Colzilla090 (Nov 15, 2021)

Surely the bad sulpher sand smell would have shown under water testing? If it was enough to aggrevate the fish i mean


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## fishboy75 (Jan 16, 2020)

Thanks for your post but I'm no longer looking for a solution. I'm trying to help GuitarShark figure out what's going on in his tank by posting my findings. As I said above, my problems have disappeared since I moved my fish to a new tank. Diseases and parasites have been ruled out by the necropsy from the lab. It is not my filters, rocks, plants or heater as all are the same in my new tank. My LED light is also the same but my problems in my 265 predated my LED light by years anyway so it wasn't that. My water parameters were always the same 7.8 pH, 6 KH, 10 GH, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and depending on how often I did my water changes the nitrates were usually from 10-40. The parameters are the same in the new tank. I didn't have a strong sulfur smell when the tank was full or otherwise I would have torn it down completely. Water always had that good earthy smell and if it didn't I would do a water change. The awful smell was worse than sulfur and I only noticed it when I drained the tank completely. I have no other assumption to make other than what I stated about the caked sand underneath the rocks and in the holes of the egg crate as being a factor and probably the main reason. It smelled like death and even getting the sand on my hands made them reek. If this was in fact causing a harmful bacterial toxin it makes sense in that smaller, subdominant fish seemed to be more affected than adult or dominant fish as their immune systems were likely weaker and more stressed. It's been 7 months in the new tank now and the problems haven't resurfaced so all signs point to a hypoxic substrate. For the record, I have 2 other tanks that never had those issues. Neither have sand or eggcrate.


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