# How many Bolivian Rams should I buy to get a pair?



## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

I want to add Bolivian Rams to my Community Tank and I want to make sure that two of them will pair up together. How many should I buy? I always put my fish in a Quarantine tank for at least 2 weeks before placing them in my Community tank. How long does it take for Bolivian Rams to pair up? Does it take longer than 2 weeks? If I can't return the remaining Bolivian Rams to the pet store, will it be okay to leave them in my Quarantine tank until I am able to find a suitable home for them or will they fight each other since they didn't pair up?

Thanks


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## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

How big is your quarantine tank? How big are the rams you're buying? Are they old enough to determine sex? The more you go the greater chance of geting a pair.


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## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

I haven't located any yet. I am trying to buy a pair that is already established locally. I posted a want to buy request on my local area fish club board but haven't had a reply. If nobody has a pair already then I am planning to place an order with a Pet Store in my area. I wanted to buy them as young as possible but I have no idea when that will be. I also didn't think about the size of my QT. It's only 10 gallons so that really limits the number I can buy I guess.

I just wanted some information so I would know how to go about doing this. I really don't care about the sex of the other fish in my tank because they are groups of Tetras. But I really wanted to have a pair of Bolivian Rams that were compatible since I will only have two of them in my Community Tank.


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## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

What size is your community tank? Bolivians do really well in groups. Most will recommend keeping them in groups rather than pairs.


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## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

I have a 65 gallon tank with several schools of Tetras (Cardinal, Glowlight, Black Neon, Serpea and Panda) A powder Blue Gouramis and 3 Panda Cory Cats. There are a total of 35 fish in there now. The Gouramis and the Panda Tetras spend most of the time in the upper portion of the tank. And the others are kind of all over, although the Cardinals and Cory Cats are more on the bottom of the tank. I didn't know if I had room for more than 2 Bolivians.

I also didn't know that they do well in groups. How many should be in the group? And what happens to the Bolivians that don't pair up. Do they fight or anthing?


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## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

I'm not real sure. I keep mine as a pair in a 30. I would think you could do 5-6. Tetras have low bioload and don't compete for territory, so some cichlids shouldn't upset anything.

Bolivians that don't pair up usually turn to online dating sites. :lol: No really, they should be fine, bolivians are civil to each other. Try to aim for more females than males.


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## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

adam79 said:


> Bolivians that don't pair up usually turn to online dating sites. :lol:


 :lol: I had to read that line again because I didn't know what you were talking about at first. I got it the second time and cracked up.

I forgot to mention that my tank is more deep than wide because I originally wanted to get one or more Angelfish but have decided to hold off on that for a while, a long while.
So instead of it being 4 feet long it is 3 feet long. Does that make a difference in regards to how many Bolivian Rams I can put in the tank?

I just want to make sure that it won't be too crowded.


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi *iLuvAngels*,

I unfortunaly do not have much advice, I have only had one pair of Bolvian rams in a 20 gallon, I only baught two and they ended up becoming a pair. However, I like the sounds of you tank and was hoping you could post some pictures.

Thanks,
Matt


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## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

Length is usually better than depth. Unless you are keeping fish that are bigger than 2/3rds the depth of the tank, I would go for length over depth. I was thinking 4 foot when I suggested 5-6. 4-5 might be better for your tank.


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## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

That's what I thought and that's why I wanted to let you know that it isn't the normal tank dimensions. As I said, I had originally planned to put a few Angels in there that is why I opted for the deeper tank but I decided to hold off on getting them. I love the look of the tank though because it so different plus it fits perfectly in the space in our family room. It wouldn't fit had it been another 12 inches longer. There is something about the thinner tanks width wise that just bothers me for some reason, I don't know why.

*mlancaster,*
I only have one blurry picture of my tank right now but I'll work on getting some more that are clearer. I took it with a cell phone so you can imagine what it looks like. I am still trying to figure out how to take a good pic as well as get it on my computer. I am just a little slow on that issue :lol: It's not the greatest tank but I am trying to get it together.

You are real lucky that the two Bolivian Rams you bought actually paired up. I would love for that to happen to me.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I have a heavily planted 58 gallon (36" long) with five Bolivians plus a big school of rummynose and green fire tetras, two BN plecos and six cories. It's a wonderful tank. The Bolivians definitly squabble between themselves and eggs have been laid once. The other fish don't care what the Bolivians are doing, although the Bolivians will occasionally poke at the cories as they go by. The cories ignore them.

I'd think your tank would be fine with five also, although I might consider removing the gouramis. (Not the right location and I'm not sure how they'd get alone with the rams.)

Heavily planted with lots of different separate areas (divided in my case with river rocks and driftwood) seems to suit the Bolivians well.


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## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

Holyfish2000,
I didn't realize that the Dwarf Gourami and Bolivian Rams didn't get along. I somehow missed that when I was researching my fish.  I really only wanted to have to take care of one tank (my 65 gallon). But I do have a 10 gallon tank that is still up and running which can be used to house my Powder Blue if I have to. I don't want him to be terrorized by the Rams when I get them.

If I can get 5 Bolivians in my tank then that would be great. How many male Bolivians do you have and how many are female? Does each one have their own territory or does each pair have a territory? Are they interesting to watch?


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

iLuvAngels said:


> Holyfish2000,
> I didn't realize that the Dwarf Gourami and Bolivian Rams didn't get along. I somehow missed that when I was researching my fish.
> If I can get 5 Bolivians in my tank then that would be great. How many male Bolivians do you have and how many are female? Does each one have their own territory or does each pair have a territory? Are they interesting to watch?


Please note in my post I said "I'm not sure how they'd get along" not that they won't. I like to keep my tanks locale appropriate (well, except for the plants), so in my SA tanks, I only keep SA fish and gouramis are not SA fish. I can't say for sure they won't, but I like having the bolivian be the dominate fish in the tank (both visually and personality-wise) so that is why I recommended considering removing the gouramis. It's not essential . . .

I do not know the genders of my Bolivians. I did have a pair get together and lay eggs, but they only lasted a day. I can't actually tell them apart, so I have no idea if the same pair is still together and who, exactly, is quarreling, with who. They do seem to have "prized" locations in the front of the tank and I have it divided up so that each can claim a section if they choose i.e. the spot in the left corner under the crypt or the spot on the right corner under the anubias or the spot in the middle with the flat rock and the small sword. You get the idea . . .


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## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

Hollyfish2000,
That does make sense. My original plan was to have a SA tank with one Angelfish as the centerpiece and have a couple of Bolivian Rams along with some Tetras and Cories but somewhere along the way I got sidetracked, bought a Gourami and put him in the tank before I got my Rams or my Angelfish. I think I am going to re-think that whenever I get my Rams and will probably end up moving the Gourami to my 10 gallon planted tank that doesn't have any fish in it right now. As much as I hate to have another tank, it really doesn't make sense to have one up and running with no fish in it  I have kept it cycled by adding a little bit of ammonia to it every day.

I was wondering something else about the Bolivians. I thought they had to have caves or something like that. I don't have any caves in my tank but I do have plants (amazon swords, annubias, java fern attatched to driftwood, Java fern attatched to a rock, A huge Wisteria Plant and some other plants around my manzanita tree) hopefully that will be enough for each one to claim it's own territory. There are plants attached to driftwood and I have plants in every corner of my tank as well as plants in the background. I have some rocks scattered here and there but they aren't large rocks. I could always get a couple larger ones and place them in the tank if I end up with 5 Bolivians and not enough "territories" for them.

The more I think about it, the more excited I am about getting some Bolivian Rams. I just need to find them somewhere locally or will have to order them online.


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## knfanning (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm going to be adding some Rams to my planted tank. I have some clay/terracotta pots in my tank. I try to partially cover them with rocks so it's not just a pot sitting in there out in the open. I actually think it looks good in there. They're really inexpensive so it couldn't hurt to pick one up and put it in to see how it looks.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Bolivian rams do not need caves, either for spawning or comfort. The majority of SA cichlids are not cave spawners or dwellers and I do not know where people get the idea that they need such structures in thier tanks.


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## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

Good. I am glad that I don't have to worry about making any caves for my tank when I do get the Bolivian Rams. One of the drawbacks to having a deep tank is when you have to make changes in it. I really haven't had to do anything much with my plants so far but I do have this cool tool that is really long and allows me to trim my plants and pick up things at the bottom of the tank without having to get half of my body all wet while doing it :thumb: 
I LOVE my tank even if it can be a little difficult working in it sometimes.

I got the information about Rams needing caves from a few places on the internet that give advice on keeping Bolivian Rams. Can't remember the exact sites but it doesn't make a difference now that I know they don't need caves. whoo hooo!


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

In that tank I'd get a group of 5.


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

iLuvAngels said:


> Hollyfish2000,
> That does make sense. My original plan was to have a SA tank with one Angelfish as the centerpiece and have a couple of Bolivian Rams along with some Tetras and Cories but somewhere along the way I got sidetracked, bought a Gourami and put him in the tank before I got my Rams or my Angelfish. I think I am going to re-think that whenever I get my Rams and will probably end up moving the Gourami to my 10 gallon planted tank that doesn't have any fish in it right now. As much as I hate to have another tank, it really doesn't make sense to have one up and running with no fish in it  I have kept it cycled by adding a little bit of ammonia to it every day.
> 
> I was wondering something else about the Bolivians. I thought they had to have caves or something like that. I don't have any caves in my tank but I do have plants (amazon swords, annubias, java fern attatched to driftwood, Java fern attatched to a rock, A huge Wisteria Plant and some other plants around my manzanita tree) hopefully that will be enough for each one to claim it's own territory. There are plants attached to driftwood and I have plants in every corner of my tank as well as plants in the background. I have some rocks scattered here and there but they aren't large rocks. I could always get a couple larger ones and place them in the tank if I end up with 5 Bolivians and not enough "territories" for them.
> ...


What kind of gourami do you have?

In a four foot tank I kept a pair of angels a pair of pearl gourami and a small group of bolivian rams with some bleeding heart tetras and everything was ok. No major squabbles. I'd put floating plants in one corner, a large swordplant or large leaf anubias and vertical branch in the opposite corner, and several large smooth rocks, like 'river rocks' or granite along the bottom, along with some more branches, just for environmental enrichment.

Try to keep the current from blasting at the angels or gouramis so they'll spawn and that's about it. It'll work.


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## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

aquariam said:


> What kind of gourami do you have?
> 
> In a four foot tank I kept a pair of angels a pair of pearl gourami and a small group of bolivian rams with some bleeding heart tetras and everything was ok. No major squabbles. I'd put floating plants in one corner, a large swordplant or large leaf anubias and vertical branch in the opposite corner, and several large smooth rocks, like 'river rocks' or granite along the bottom, along with some more branches, just for environmental enrichment.
> 
> Try to keep the current from blasting at the angels or gouramis so they'll spawn and that's about it. It'll work.


I have a Powder Blue Gourami which pretty much stays to itself most of the time. I already have two sword plants in my tank. They are both in the background, one in each corner of the tank. The fish like to swim in between the leaves. I had some floating plants in the tank but for some reason they died so I do need to get some more. Right now the Gourami hangs out inside my Wisteria plant which is more like a bush now that it has grown so much. Many of the fish hang out in that plant because it is so big. My husband keeps telling me to cut it down some but I think I am going to leave it alone right now because the fish really like that plant a alot. I think it makes them feel more secure. I am, however, going to cut some of the new roots that are sticking out of it everywhere because it looks a little messy in some areas.

I have some small rocks scattered here and there in my tank but they aren't river rocks. I am not sure what river rocks look like so I need to look them up online to see what they are.

I still am thinking about moving my Gourami to my spare tank just so I have something in it. It's just sitting there empty and begging me to put some more fish in it


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Dwarf gourami would be ok with the list of fish. Just give it a calm top corner with lots of floating hornwort. Happy as can be. Give it a girlfriend. .

It doesn't really matter what kind of rocks they are I was just giving examples if you didn't have them yet. Any smooth rock. That's the key. They like them to be smooth.

They seem to choose rocks that are about four or five inches round.

http://www.pcpolyzine.com/august2001/01.jpg


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## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

Aquarium,
Are you saying that I can add another Gourami (female) to the tank in addition to the 5 Bolivian Rams? I know not at the same time but in total.

Also I think my Gourami is a male. But I am wondering how I can make sure I get a female Gourami. I just don't really trust the Pet Store employees when it comes to that unless it is an obvious difference. When I bought the Gourami, I didn't really specify because I thought I would only have one in the tank. I guess I need to look it up online so I can figure it out myself.

I do have a spot in my tank to place the floating plants. It is in the farthest corner of my tank above the Manzanita tree. I don't really have any plants under the tree so there won't be any lighting issues and the current is not that bad at all since it is furthest from my filter.

Still not sure about leaving the Gourami in my main tank after the Bolivians Rams are added. I'll just have to see how things go when all are in the tank together. Plus I still may be leaning toward making this a SA tank only.

We shall see  I have to research all of this a little more before I purchase any more fish right now.


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

(Not blue but same species) ~Colisa lalia
male has pointed dorsal fin and no 'round lobe' on anal fin









Female, typically silver, has no point on dorsal fin, anal fin has rounded tip.

There are powder blue females, but to be safe, just get a silver female, or two.

The gouramis won't be an issue. They don't have the guts to bother angels, and angels don't really care much about gouramis, provided they keep their distance. In a four foot tank proper layout can keep them apart at all times. As per the bolivian rams, they really don't care about anything. Unless another fish is trying to steal food from under them, attacking them or threatening their young, they might as well be furniture. You may get warning pecks as the dwarf gouramis can be cunning food thieves but the odds against anything going wrong are very much in your favour. I've mixed this stuff before and there were no major issues.


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## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

Aquarium,
Well, It looks like my Gouramis is a female. It looks just like the one in the second picture. Thanks for posting those pictures for me. It makes it so much easier intead of having to search all over the net to find them myself :thumb:

Also, my tank isn't 4 feet long. It is only three feet long because when I bought it I wanted the additional height to accomodate the Angel Fish a little better if and when I get one. Plus. it fits in the space on my wall perfectly. The four foot one would have been too long for the spot and it was just plain easier to get a tank that fit in the space.

That is why I was asking about how many Bolivian Rams I could get due to the fact that the tank is only three feet long and I know that they like to set up territories.

I'm sure your thoughts have probably changed and I would like to know what they are now.

Thanks


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## iLuvAngels (May 14, 2008)

*Bumping this for Aquarium*

Aquarium,
Since my tank is 3 feet long, and not 4 feet, does that change the number of Bolivian Rams I should get?

Thanks


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