# Return of the Cichlids - 33g Saulosi Tank



## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Hello to all.

I've posted a few times already; explaining my history of keeping cichlids (inc a Mbuna set up and a Frontosa tank) and then asking various questions about various things! Well, the time is now getting closer to having the tank up and running. Still a few weeks away from fish just because of other commitments but I thought I would get my Tank post up and running so I can ask a few questions along the way, without having to make new posts.

My return to cichlids/fish-keeping is limited by space and budget; the reason that I am able to finally return is due to buying house and that obviously eats up a lot of funds by itself. The most I could stretch to space wise is a 125litre/33gallom tank. I settled on wanting to return to Mbuna. It's for that reason I have decided to go with a Saulosi species tank. Not ideal but I am confident I can make this work...there may also be the chance for sizing up some day.

The plan so far:

*Tank*

Juwel Rio 125 - internal filter removed

*Filtration*

All Pond Solutions 1400 l/h EF

*Heating*

Undecided - I have the stock Juwel Heater which I could attach _but_ I am strongly considering a Hydor External Heater - I was thinking the 300W in order to be future proof. First set of opinions wanted here -

1) Is the Hydor a good choice? It keeps it out of the tank and allows a good flow of heat throughout the tank is my thinking.

2) Would 300w just be too much for the tank? Is it possible to be too much? What drawbacks would there be?

*Lighting*

Juwel T5 Lighting Unit with Marine White (front) and Marine Blue (back)
-Considering a PVC pipe over the bulbs with holes drilled to dim slightly

*Rocks and Substrate*

Iberian Rock and Powis Green Rock
Pool Filter Sand

*Fish*

- Ps. Saulosi - I initially plan a stock of 15 with the intention of taking it down to 2/3 Males and 7/8 Females - therefore 10 fish in total. Again, advice welcomed here.

- 4 Syno. Lucipinnis - I love these little guys and I really want some. I know it may impact on breeding but I am really looking at this as a show tank anyway.

- 1 BN Plec - I am hopeful that adding him while the Saulosi are young, it will get on just fine. Had success with BN and Mbuna before.

*Cycling*

Again, a point I'm still considering. Likely to do a Fishless Cycle but have heard good things about Tetra Safestart and Seachem's version of the same.

So there we have it. I am awaiting delivery of the Filter. Very soon I hope to get the sand in and then have the tank up and running so that I can start cycling. I will use this thread to update and ask any questions that I have. I would of course be very thankful for any help and advice along the way, either positive or negative!

Here is the tank with the rocks how I currently want them...this does keep changing though so it may be different next time.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Everything looks fine except your filter choice this is a poor quality external also marketed in the U.S under Aquatop and on ebay under SunSun, some have had success but all have agreed that the quality is poor comparative to name brand filters. As your primary filter this IMO is a bad choice, 1. because if it fails you could lose all livestock 2. because its external it could leave you with an expensive clean up bill if it leaks. If you want to keep it low cost cheap HOB or cheap internals are the way to go. Run them in pairs that way if one fails you have a backup till the other gets replaced, also you would be overfiltering which I think is a think is always a good idea when stocking cichlids.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Oh that's a shame to hear. It has good reviews over here in the UK and I know of quite a few good keepers who use it. It was even endorsed with a very positive review by probably the biggest fish keeping magazine over here.

Well, I've bought it now so I will have to see how it goes and keep a close eye on it.

What about the heater? I'm tempted by the Hydor external like I said. Any views?


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## amcvettec (May 11, 2012)

I don't have an external heater, so I can't comment on that. I do like Hydor as a brand. I also think 150W would be fine your tank; 300w is overkill.

I love your rock choice, however I don't think there is enough. Get some smaller rocks and stack them up a bit onto the bigger rocks. Mbuna love to go in and out of crevices. Plus with more cave options, you will have better harmony if you end up with a couple males.

Does your external filter have a spray bar? Your going to need some surface agitation so maybe consider a HOB for extra filtration plus surface agitation. I always prefer to have 2 filters. It allows me to do a heavy cleaning on one without a large loss of bio. I alternate cleaning between the two.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Yes it comes with a spray bar. I am also looking at getting a wave maker perhaps as well, to add a bit more movement. Going to see how he filter goes first though.

I actually have an ok heater at the moment so I may stick with that and consider the external one later. I'll give that some thought.

Any thoughts on filter media? It comes with bio balls, ceramic rings and some floss. I was thinking about getting a batch of Seachem Matrix as well? Then just perhaps stock up on some extra bio balls and perhaps some foam (coarse and medium). Any thoughts?


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## SOU812 (Jun 11, 2013)

I agree that you need smaller rocks(fist size)and keep a few larger ones for contrast,which in turn make smaller caves and crevices when stacked,you'll be surprised how small they like to hide in,I like the two rocks on the right that have curved bottoms,I would put them on opposite sides of the tank,a large rock vertically in the middle and build off of them with the smaller ones


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Well if you already bought it I would agree that another filter as a backup just in case would be wise. That filter is hit as miss on the reviews I read maybe you got lucky and got a good one. Some have flooded others just complain about the cheap inlet outlet parts breaking or not allowing good flow through the spraybar. I have heard mixed reviews on seachem matrix as well, some rave and others say its a waste of money, i would say save your money! Water changes are your friend not fancy media. I have spent tons on these things, filters, powerheads, heaters and media when I was new to the hobby none have gave me healthier fish, except water changes, so just use whatever they gave you. I do though use Purigen in place of carbon simply for cost reasons, change water weekly, rinse filters weekly and thats it.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

I use seachem matrix in my aquatop (same as allpond) and it works well. I have not had any issues with the aquatop in over a year now. I wish the hoses were a little more flexible and I wish it had a larger spraybar, but other than that I am happy with it. I think it is one of the better values on the market.

You might consider an AquaClear 50 or even 70 for this tank. You could either use it in conjunction with the allpond or the 70 could be used in leu of it for sure. The AC70 pumps 300GPH so that is close to 10x your water volume. The AC50 is 250GPH so coupled with the allpond that would make great filtration system and if one goes down you still have the other.

I have not used the in-line heaters either, but I am considering one myself. The less equipment in the tank the better if you ask me.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

I'm not sure I could have a HOB filter (that's what Quaclear is, right?) because of the hood design on the Juwel Rio tank. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong but I don't see how a HOB would work with the design because the lid wouldn't be able to close. I'll have a look into that.

The one thing I have heard about the APS is that the supplied media needs topping up. Also, there are no sponges in it at all. So what I'm thinking is getting some pond filter sponges from eBay and cutting them to size, then adding some Matrix. I'm also considering Purigen but I don't know if that's perhaps overkill.

3 trays:

Bottom - Bio balls toped with 3 sponges (coarse, then medium, then fine)

Middle - Ceramic Rings topped with Matrix

Top - Purigen and Filter Floss/Wool.

What do you all think?


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

I noticed your system might not allow Hang on back filters (HOB), you could check fluval U4 a really good internal filter. For your external you want the ceramic rings near the bottom they trap small particles kind of like a sponge and Purigen traps even finer particles like a Micron Filter If it were mine this is how I would do it

3 trays

Bottom - 3 sponges (course, medium, fine)

Middle - Ceramic Rings topped with Purigen

Top - Matrix with Bio Balls or just Matrix ( both do pretty much same thing yet matrix is supposed to have deep pocket for Denitrification that Bio Balls do not have they are simply bio surface area for Nitrifying bacteria to colonize)


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

How much more effective is Purigen compared to say, filter floss?

I am going to follow your advice (it's what I'd seen recommended by others too) and have ordered some coarse,medium and fine sponge.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

TrickyT said:


> I'm not sure I could have a HOB filter (that's what Quaclear is, right?) because of the hood design on the Juwel Rio tank. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong but I don't see how a HOB would work with the design because the lid wouldn't be able to close. I'll have a look into that.
> 
> The one thing I have heard about the APS is that the supplied media needs topping up. Also, there are no sponges in it at all. So what I'm thinking is getting some pond filter sponges from eBay and cutting them to size, then adding some Matrix. I'm also considering Purigen but I don't know if that's perhaps overkill.
> 
> ...


AauaClears are pretty low profile. Maybe show us a pick of the back of the hood/tank and we could see if it would work. If there is room for the canister hoses to hang on the tank I'm thinking there's room for a HOB.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

I'm away at the moment but it's difficult to explain. I am away from the house tonight but if you check out this link it shows a Rio tank....

http://www.thesaltybox.com/forum/attach ... 9229_1.jpg

You can see the two gaps at the back. The lid/light unit then sit flush with the top of the tank. So there is only hat small space to run filter pipes in on both sides.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

TrickyT said:


> I'm away at the moment but it's difficult to explain. I am away from the house tonight but if you check out this link it shows a Rio tank....
> 
> http://www.thesaltybox.com/forum/attach ... 9229_1.jpg
> 
> You can see the two gaps at the back. The lid/light unit then sit flush with the top of the tank. So there is only hat small space to run filter pipes in on both sides.


So those are the only gaps in the back of the hood?


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Yes they are. I have seen a HOB on a Rio but it looks awful, really sticks out and needs a lot of cutting away. I will look into internal as a secondary.

I have another question people might be able to help with. I will be setting the tank up fully running next week and begin the cycle. Now, that should be done by mid-August. At that time, a local rated breeder has Saulosi coming available. I have no idea how long they will be available for and there are only 40 or so. They would be just at the point of sale ready.

My query is this...I go on holiday 4th September until the 14th. Would the fish be ok for that period at their young age? I could get someone to pop in and feed who I trust on one or two nights or I can use my Dad's decent automatic feeder. I can do a water change on the 3rd (fly very early hours 4th).

If this carries any risk then obviously I won't BUT it then means that I can't really do anything until after the holiday because the cycle would be interrupted etc.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

TrickyT said:


> Yes they are. I have seen a HOB on a Rio but it looks awful, really sticks out and needs a lot of cutting away. I will look into internal as a secondary.
> 
> I have another question people might be able to help with. I will be setting the tank up fully running next week and begin the cycle. Now, that should be done by mid-August. At that time, a local rated breeder has Saulosi coming available. I have no idea how long they will be available for and there are only 40 or so. They would be just at the point of sale ready.
> 
> ...


I imagine they would not look good. Stick with one good canister and maybe get a cheaper, smaller one to have for back up incase it ever breaks down.

I think your fish would be ok as long as you have some one who knows what they're doing look after them. You would want to give a crash course on how to take care of them and what problematic signs to look out for. I would not use and automatic feeder as they can easily pollute the water and you will not be able to do a water change for a couple of weeks.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Purigen gets the smallest particulates the ones that cause cloudy water and will make your water crystal clear, I happen to like crystal clear water  filter floss would remove very small particles but not the size that would cause cloudy water so they are not really comparable.

Its going to be tough no matter how you cycle to add fish and then take off, because the first month after adding fish are critical because of MINI CYCLES!! because you cant know the bio load of the fish until you actually put them in the tank, there can always be adjustments in your bio filter after the fish are added and you will get a small spike in ammonia. The first month I always am standing by with a bottle of Prime just in case I see any signs of stress.

How do you plan on doing your cycle? Fish or Fishless


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

I will be doing fishless with ammonia.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Just another question. Prime - is Seachem Safe exactly the same just in concentrated powder form? If so, it seems to work out cheaper to get Safe rather than Prime, am I right?


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Safe is for large ponds and so you would need to measure it somehow which will be extremely difficult. I am talking about a couple salt size grains per gallon type measuring. I thought of doing this as well and quickly learned its not for me with only a 40 gallon


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

I've gone for Prime after all then. I've also gone with Matrix and Purigen. Awaiting delivery of that and other filter media. About there I think.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

TrickyT said:


> I've gone for Prime after all then. I've also gone with Matrix and Purigen. Awaiting delivery of that and other filter media. About there I think.


Yes, sounds like you are getting close.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Quick question I'd welcome help on.

My plan is to start the cycle this next coming week. Hope to be ready by mid August. At that time would a single BN Plec be enough to maintain the ammonia levels and keep tank ticking along?

If not then perhaps I could put the 3-4 Lucipinnis in as well, they'd be alright wouldn't they?

I have already mentioned that I go on holiday 4-14 September and don't want the Saulosi in there unsupervised so early. Equally I don't want to have to do the cycle afterwards. So I'd like to put the other members in to keep it going and ready for delivery of F1 Saulosi upon return.

Welcome any advice.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Not very familiar with saulosi but maybe you could start off with just a pair after your cycle, 1 male and 1 female, then slowly add more after vacation is over. Maybe someone else could chime in if a single saulosi pair could be kept without problems, I am not very sure about this.


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## Notorious (Jun 6, 2013)

I doubt putting a pair of mbuna in the tank would be smart. Mbuna are harem breeders and you need more females than males or the males will harass the females to death. Your best bet is to introduce a bunch of salousi in at the same time. 15 say 1" fish will not affect the bio load that much. I think putting the pleco in the tank as a "test" fish is not a bad idea but I don't know if it is 100% necessary. As for the aquatop they are not on par with say your fluval and eheim. That being said just because a filter is not name brand does not mean it is bad. I used to have an aquatop on a 125 and it worked very well and most people I know who got them liked them as well. They are not perfect... I had missing parts and priming them is a bit difficult but you should be fine with it if that's what you want to go with. IMO most of the bad reviews come from incompetence not because the product is that bad. Heck any filter can leak it does not mean its a bad filter. I have had fx5's and rena filstars leak on me. Usually it's do to addressing a minor issue tightening something here or there.

Have you seen this link?
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=2205

This guy kept a colony of salousi in a 30 gallon tank. Pretty amazing I thought of doing something like it but I went with shell dwellers instead. I would model your tank after this as far as stock and perhaps even aquascape.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Yes I've seen that tank, it's the one that gave me the idea for the tank actually.

My concern about putting the Saulosi in there is that I'll be away for 10 days after they've only been in for 14 days. Concerned about mini cycles etc

I think I will put in the BN and 4 Syno Lucipinnis and then get the Saulosi in there afterwards. Also gives those guys a bit if time to bed in before the carnage of Mbuna arrives!!


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Quick update. Filter media has arrived. Hopefully going to get the tank up and cycling this coming week.

Also have some ceramic rings and filter floss. Will be cutting the sponges to size and will have three trays as follows:

Bottom - coarse, medium, fine sponge

Middle - ceramic rings and Matrix

Top - 3 x Filter Floss and Purigen


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Nice, hows the aquascaping coming along?


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Well, after a pretty stress free few hours, I have the tank up and running, ready to start the cycling process.

I still need to add a black background and I am considering a few more smaller rocks on the mid-left side but to be honest, I am really quite satisfied with how it looks. Welcome any feedback from you all.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Wow you did a great job. This is going to be a nice tank.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks. Do you think I should consider a couple of tall plants or do you all think it would look better as it is now?'

I know plants with Mbuna can be tricky but I'm just thinking the green might break it up a bit and also it will add a bit of height. I guess I can always get rid of them if I don't like them.

I'm picking up some black craft paper on my lunch today hopefully and will get some more shots up once that's in place.


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## NJmomie (Jan 17, 2013)

I think some tall plants will look great in this setup. The green will give nice contrast to the yellow and blue of the saulosi. I have some plants in my 29 gallon saulosi tank right now and they are slowly riping them to pieces so you may need to replace them often.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Background is in, black art card.

Ammonia dose added today, first reading at around 4ppm. The cycle begins.

Anyway, here's the tank with background.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I think adding plants would give it a good look.

Don't dose your ammonia over 3 ppm. Higher concentrations can stall your cycle.


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## notchback65 (Apr 3, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Don't dose your ammonia over 3 ppm. Higher concentrations can stall your cycle.


+1 
Learned that the hard way!


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Ok thanks for that. I will try to make sure it doesn't get above 3ppm from now. It's somewhere between 3-4 I think so hopefully will be ok and I'll just be more careful in future doses.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Can't wait to see once stocked, BTW did you end up putting the cover over the lighting cause its perfect, nice and subdued.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

No it's just the full T5 lighting. Marine white and marine blue at the back. It actually looks a little brighter in real life so I am considering some cover. Undecided at the moment though.


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## shelbynjakesdad (Mar 13, 2013)

About the Synodontis Cats... I've heard that they are more sensitive to ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and should be added after the tank cycle is mature. Given their price tag (usually 2-3x more than mbuna juvies), I'm not sure I'd add them first. That being said, I added some to my 55 (after adding my mbuna) and they have been thriving - no problems at all and are some of my favorite fish in the tank.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Would 1-2 BN plecs keep the cycle going you think? If I just added them before I went on holiday and then the Mbuna and Synos once a couple weeks have passed?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Your bacteria will be fine while you're on holiday, as long as you keep the filters running.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

There won't be any ammonia to feed it though, unless there some fish in there, surely?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

That's true but your bacteria will not 'die off' without a food source. They go dormant.

If you're worried about it, you could just throw a chunk of raw shrimp in the tank before you leave for vacation. That would produce ammonia.

If you throw in plecos, then you need someone to feed them and check water parameters.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Im not sure about the dormant theory. Just because if it were true then we could just max out our biological filter and never have to worry about mini cycle ever again, then again most mini cycles are from biological material being removed. So I have been trying to learn more but am still undecided.

The theory I was referring to before was that in a slow process the bacteria will die off in waves. So each wave producing ammonia during die off for the rest of the colony to survive, this process from what I have learned can take weeks or more the problem is nobody really knows for sure. That doesnt mean to say iggys way doesnt work, like others have said earlier they tried it and it worked for them so it can probably be duplicated and will work again. Because I am overly cautious I wouldnt go more than 3 days without feeding as suggested in the article.

As far as fish go in theory your bioload would be extremely high and you could really add whatever you wanted to the tank without problems. But again I always err on the side of caution and would never throw in fish without making sure eveything goes fine, but again this is just me.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

What about if I set up my automatic feeder to just 'feed' the tank daily with a couple pellets if food? That should keep the ammonia level up to maintain the cycle, no? Plus, even if the water quality goes down slightly, no fish to harm in there.

Would have thought that it would maintain a live bio load and make it fairly easy to pick back up?

Thoughts?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Here's some material regarding nitrifying bacteria - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=246181&start=15
Regarding the OP's question about cycling and leaving for vacation; As long as the tank has been cycled to the point of converting 3ppm ammonia to nitrate within 24 hours, there should be no problem leaving the tank running empty. Dose 2-3ppm ammonia once you return and I expect it should convert within 24 hours. Sounds like a pretty good experiment in any case.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

I agree, try it and post your results I would like to see if It would bounce back or if it would take a few days.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Well I've added some Vallisneria Spiralis "Tiger" today. I know plants and Mbuna can be a 'no no' but I really wanted some live plants in there to add to the natural look I've gone for, plus to add some colour and height.

I think they add a different dimension to the tank. I will post a photo later because it's really sunny here and the glare is making it too difficult to take a good shot.

Quick question before that; anyone who's kept Vallisneria, do you feed them or are they hardy enough to survive with any additives?


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Not a great shot, it's from my iphone and I was in a rush but this is it with the Vallis.

I would welcome your views on it.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Looks very nice! It's only missing one thing.... :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

I think it will be a lot less stressful without the fish actually, I'm considering leaving it as is....hahahaha


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Well, the cycle is progressing and ammonia is now being converted in 24-36 hours. Waiting for the Nitrite drop and did the first small water change yesterday to help that along. Tank is looking nice and clear again now that the cloudiness has gone.

I have the lights on an automatic timer with about 4.5 hours a night (have it so its on for when I come home) to help the Vallisneria along. The algae has really started to kick off now though, look at this photo, it's from about 7 days of light;










It's only on 3 of the 5 rocks and this is the biggest area of growth by far. The smaller rocks I have in the sand have some on them as well. Maybe need to get a BN Plec in there to keep it under control, still about 5-6 weeks away from the Saulosi being in there and by that time it might be a bit of a jungle!!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

TrickyT said:


> Well, the cycle is progressing and ammonia is now being converted in 24-36 hours. Waiting for the Nitrite drop and did the first small water change yesterday to help that along. Tank is looking nice and clear again now that the cloudiness has gone.
> 
> I have the lights on an automatic timer with about 4.5 hours a night (have it so its on for when I come home) to help the Vallisneria along. The algae has really started to kick off now though, look at this photo, it's from about 7 days of light;
> 
> ...


What are you using for lighting? The algae has plenty of nutrients to feed on right now and nothing to compete with so it will keep growing. You could either get a UV sterilizer or run your lights even less. Once you get some fish in there it should be better. A BN pleco would help. You could add one in once the cycle is completed. I have two in my 75G mbuna tank and there is pretty much no algae in there.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Be happy its green! Your fish will graze on it.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Be happy its green! Your fish will graze on it.


 :thumb:

My mbuna won't even touch the brown stuff. Thankfully the plecos do eat some of it.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

My lighting is 2 x 28w T5 iAquatics bulbs - marine white and marine blue.

I imagine its the blue that has resulted in the green immediately.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

TrickyT said:


> My lighting is 2 x 28w T5 iAquatics bulbs - marine white and marine blue.
> 
> I imagine its the blue that has resulted in the green immediately.


This is probably too much light for a cycling tank. I would remove the marine blue because, as you said, it is probably causing the algae bloom., and just use one bulb. You could use both bulbs once the cycle has completed and you have fish in the tank. Your mbuna would actually appreciate the algae, especially soulosi.


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## cook (Jul 22, 2013)

i see you didn't take anyones advice regarding your rocks. its kind of pointless to just have big rocks in there, they want caves and stuff they can go through and swim in and make homes in.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

I played around with the rocks for ages and couldn't get them to look any good stacked. I am still going to look out for smaller rocks to consider making some stacking formation on the left side but I don't agree with what you've said there.

Firstly, I did a lot of research whilst I was asking for advice and playing around with the rockscape. Mbuna in the wild actually spend a lot of their time hovering over large rocks, grazing on the algae. Many of the rocky areas in the lake are full of very large rocks, rather than smaller ones with caves etc.

Secondly, I looked at other successful Saulosi tanks, including "THAT" Saulosi tank which got so much attention here on the tanks section. Hardly any of them have caves, they just have larger rocks like mine.

I'm pleased with how it looks and actually there are about 3 'caves' in there, two that go underneath two of the rocks that you cant see because sand is there at the moment and then the two rocks against each other.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

TrickyT said:


> I played around with the rocks for ages and couldn't get them to look any good stacked. I am still going to look out for smaller rocks to consider making some stacking formation on the left side but I don't agree with what you've said there.
> 
> Firstly, I did a lot of research whilst I was asking for advice and playing around with the rockscape. Mbuna in the wild actually spend a lot of their time hovering over large rocks, grazing on the algae. Many of the rocky areas in the lake are full of very large rocks, rather than smaller ones with caves etc.
> 
> ...


I found that my fish just like hiding behind large rocks and rarely go in the caves I provide. I do think the males use the caves for territories so I make sure to have at least one per male. As long as there are a few caves, out cropping and large rocks for them to hide in it should be ok.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Bit of an update...

Tank is fully cycled and houses a couple Albino BN Plecs (had success in the past).

I have ordered 14 small F1 Saulosi from Northants Malawi. I have also gone for 3 Syno Lucipinnis because I am not too bothered about breeding and just love those little guys. The 14 will eventually be reduced to somewhere around 8-10 with the unnecessary males removed.

A question I do have though- food!

I always fed my Mbuna NLS but that was about 6 years ago. What does everyone feed their Mbuna? Obviously these guys will still be fry (about 16 weeks old I think they might be) so should I go for something to grow them on initially?

Welcome your thoughts.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

I feed my smaller mbunas Extreme Community Crave flakes and they do fine on that. As they grow I feed them algae pellets and the occasional zucchini or pea treat.


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

So, finally the fish are here!

Today at around 11am I took delivery from Northants Malawis of 14 F1 Saulosi and 3 Syno. Lucipinnis. They were packaged really well and seemed absolutely fine, all things considered.










After letting the bags acclimatize to the water temperature for a while, they were in the tank. I threw a couple of blankets over the tank to cover it and left them to get to know their new home for a while. A couple of hours later, the Saulosi were really active and seemed to be grazing already on the algae that was in the tank. I gave them a small feed of Tropical Malawi Flake and they went crazy for it - they were clearly hungry after their trip.

The Saulosi are really active already and, although they are still youngsters, they seem to have some lovely colours starting to show.

I didn't see much of the Lucipinnis for a while but now they are out and about already.

I have tried to take a few photos of them but I am struggling because they are so **** quick! Here are a couple of the first attempts though, just to give an idea.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Tank looks good. Good luck with the new arrivals...


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Very Nice! I would like to setup a similar tank at my office some day.


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## matt duarte (Aug 29, 2013)

im a lil late on this thread but *** bought 3 sunsun canister filters and their all working perfectly and do their job awesomely.. have a few more tanks I need to set up and they will all get a sun sun with uv.. and btw the tank is lookin awesome!!!


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Realised that I hadn't really been posting in this thread, so here is a bit of an update.

The fish are in there and settled. I currently have 14 Saulosi, 3 syno Lucipinnis and a single albino BN. The 14 will be trimmed down by about half or so, one I can get the ratio correct.

This is how the tank looks now:










I have put in two iQuatics reflectors and the improvement in light is noticeable. The vallisneria plants are struggling 
With being overcome with algae but you will see I have two types of Crypts in there and they are doing well. Not being snacked on yet and the fish love using them for cover. I know it's not strictly biotope, but this is a tank with Saulosi, Syno Lucipinniss and a BN.

There are 2 males showing male colours, the change over the past 7 days is truly remarkable. This was taken a few days ago:










This is the same fish, taken an hour or so ago:










I have installed moonlighting and I am really pleased with the effect it gives at night:










Finally, I got myself some New Era Cichlid Green Grazer, which the fish went mad for.....after staring suspiciously at it for about 10 minutes.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Tanks looks real nice. Hopefully you'll get all of them to coexist as is. The fish will let you know. The transformation is really cool.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Looking good! Is that a live plant in there?


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Yes there are some Vallis tiger and 2 types of Crypts as well. The Vallis is really struggling with the algae smothering it but the crypts are doing well.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

TrickyT said:


> Yes there are some Vallis tiger and 2 types of Crypts as well. The Vallis is really struggling with the algae smothering it but the crypts are doing well.


Do you rmbuna leave the plants alone?


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## TrickyT (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah they haven't been eating them so far. They use them as cover a lot as well, they seem to quite like them. When I first put the Cryps in, they were straight there in amongst it using it as cover. I'm keeping an eye on them though.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

TrickyT said:


> Yeah they haven't been eating them so far. They use them as cover a lot as well, they seem to quite like them. When I first put the Cryps in, they were straight there in amongst it using it as cover. I'm keeping an eye on them though.


That's good. Mine eat almost any plant except for anubais. I have aceis tho and I've heard they're notorious for eating plants. I hope to setup a saulosi tank some day and when I do I'd like to have a few plants in it.


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