# WHAT!? My Severum is a GIRL!



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Soo.... Remember this severum?










Well... she laid EGGS!

My two "male" severums have been "flirting" a lot lately, and I wasn't sure if it was an aggression thing or if it was pre-spawning behavior. Well... there's certainly no more confusion! I'll post some pics later 

The thing is... I don't know how controversial this is, but the male is a rotkeil sev. The store I got him from said that he wasn't a rotkeil, but rather, a green that was line bred for that color. I don't know if that's possible. Here's a picture of the male:


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Looks like a Rotkeil to me


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

Definitely a male Rottie! just like ours.

Hope the hybrid police don't jump on you! :lol:

I definitely don't like the hybrid thing, but if those two crazy kids want to play house, I'm all for it! :lol:

-Ryan


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## HiImSean (Apr 5, 2007)

my gold male and rot. female breed all the time, i know hybrid alert. i didn't buy them to breed them, i never raise the fry and if i sold them i would sell them as hybrids. im very surprised about that red being female


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm also surprised about the red being a female! I'm surprised that no one commented until now! That was the biggest shocker for me. I always assumed that I had two males, and I've had the red severum for a year now. That sev has always been So mellow though, and she was also one of the smaller ones in the batch. That should've been a clue, although that in itself doesn't really say much.

I'll post a pic of the eggs this morning. Unfortunately, the male didn't seem interested in fertilizing the eggs. He just wanted to eat them, and mama was surely not going to let him. The eggs are still there this morning, but I know they'll turn white soon. Do you think this happened because he's still young? The male is slightly shy of 4".


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

The eggs are all spread out on 4 stones in the tank. there are probably around 500 eggs. I wonder if the male fertilized the eggs...i really didn't see him do it, but he's still hanging around the female all the time. She's mostly tolerant of him. With the exception of allowing the male and tetras to be near her, the female is guarding about 1/3 of the tank.


















video:
http://s406.photobucket.com/albums/pp14 ... V04273.flv


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## HiImSean (Apr 5, 2007)

they look fertilized to me. they have that nice yellow/orange color to them


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## amazonfriend (Aug 15, 2006)

I like the Rotkeil

I have never seen them in the stores around here. hmmm


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

That red is a female???? that messed up! great looking female! I guess the line breeding they used for the red must have rubbed off onto the females to.


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

I know, I still can't believe she's a female! She's still furiously guarding the eggs, except that most have turned white, as I imagined they would. She doesn't bother any of the fish that keep their distance, but she almost tried to kill the male when he swooped down to have a little snack. If the male manages to fertilize eggs in the future, I don't think those fry would get eaten by anyone. I've never seen a female on guard like that before. No one will get past her!

Well, maybe next time (where's the hybrid police?)


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

Since the Red is already a hybrid, there's really no hybrid concern if you should succeed in crossing it with the Rotkeil. Might produce another interesting domestic strain. The red spotting with a red shoulder patch added could be quite attractive, but it will require a second generation to bring the gold back out, as that is known to be a recessive.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I thought the red was just line bred from golds? Of course, the world may never know.

*puts on hybrid police hat*

It's good they didn't make it. Sadly in Europe, rotties are considered green sevs and are being crossed regularly to make more rotties. I've heard complaints about it from people over there, as the mixes aren't as colorful as normal rotties. Given that it's a common trend, rotties might start getting hard to find. So I would aid in diluting them on this side of the pond. :thumb:


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

The red spotting comes from either _H. severus _or Sp. "Orinoco", the color and pattern is unmistakable and unique to species from that basin. Neither of these has been in the hobby very long, and while it is possible that someone got a gold sport from one of them, I suspect they were simply crossed with the regular Gold, which originated with either _efasciatus _or _notatus_. Ergo, hybrid. Of course, most older aquarium strains of "Severums" likely include crosses of the last two species anyway.

There are ichthyologists who believe that the only difference between _efasciatus _and Rotkeil is that big red mark. Some believe otherwise. I lack sufficient data to proffer an opinion one way or the other.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

See, I thought they might have mixed the Tapajos redhead race of _H. efasciatus_ with a gold to get them. I remember seeing the reds before the _H. severus_ was brought back into the hobby, at least I thought so. I could be wrong, as I admit I didn't pay too much attention to the reds as I never liked the golds to begin with.

As for rotties, I prefer to always ere on the side of caution until the scientists hash it all. And sometimes I don't agree with them, even though of course they know much more about these things than I do. Like Kullander collasping turquiose sev's into _H. efasciatus_ instead of being their own species, despite the differant adult sizes and lack of a connection species/color form between them. But I'll never say my random musing would equal the knowledge of Kullander though, so even though I don't agree with it ... I treat it as fact ... for now ... until some switches it back ... :lol:


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