# Real world comparison of LED and T5 (Pics)



## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

So for the last month I've been driving myself crazy. I have two 36" Marineland Double Bright LEDs on my 125 gallon peacock and hap tank. I swear up and down that the tank simply does not have the look I was after. The colors of the fish seemed washed out or bleak. The fish that I bought from the LFS is not the same fish that was in my tank...at least not color wise!

Driving my fiance and uncle (who is a salt water junkie) crazy about this, I decided to test it first hand. I purchased two Aqueon 36" T5 dual-bulb fixtures from my local petsmart. I was 85% sure that I would most likely be returning them, but I needed to see for myself if there was a difference. I am also hoping my findings here will provide someone else on these boards help as well!

So here was the setup...using my Canon 7D, I took two shots of photos, one under each light. The photos were all taken from the same spot in my living room. I turned off all house lights to ensure no ambient light was bleeding into the tank, modifying it's spectrum. Here are the results (link to my site since images are large. The site is a WIP ):

http://johnnicoletti.com/photography/po ... omparison/

Now I do understand that the spectrum is a bit different between the LED and the T5 fixtures that I have however that's the beauty of the T5; I can change the bulbs to match whatever spectrum fits my needs.

While I do love the Marineland Double Bright LEDs on my 55G, I simply do not think they are suitable enough to light a 125G. I will most likely be starting an RMA process for the LEDs and will be oging with two T5 fixtures (most likely a different one than I have, however).

What are your thoughts/opinions?


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

i once thought about led but 2 10k on a t5 beats led not to mention t5 has more options as to bulb color


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

While interesting, your test is qualitative. There are so many variable with lighting that taking a picture of them does not do it justice (height above tank, position front to back, intensity, reflector quality etc). I also keep planted tanks, and the lighting required is different, and many people are far deeper into it than I am, going as far as testing lights using quantitative measures such as Lux meters etc. Here is a deep thread on some of those factors - I believe LED's are mentioned deep in the thread.

All that said, I prefer the T5 the way you have set it up. Which is not to say that another style or implementation of LED would not lead me to prefer that option.

Thanks for taking the time to show the difference between those two options.


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

I totally agree. I tried to do the most basic lighting test between two different types of fixtures. I wanted to compare the effect of "Look at the tank under this light...does it look better than this [switch light sources]". I'm sure by switching to something such as AI Sols to where you can customize your spectrum (and all of it's other features!) you can get a completely different result.

Using the 7D and matching white balances to match the in-person representation of the lighting seemed to be a fair test to compare certain items (ie: fish color, rock color, overall look). I would gather that any individual who isn't running a planted tank (such as myself) is using a light source for two reasons: so they can see the darn fish! (  ) and for the aesthetics, which is what I was trying to compare in this test.

No problem! Like I said, while I had to do this for my own insanity (hehe) I also was hoping that the time spent would give someone a decent idea of the difference between the two. Not necessarily the difference between T5 and LED as a whole, which I should of stated earlier. More so the Marineland Double Bright LEDs vs T5s. Unfortunately the thread title couldn't handle all of the characters!

When searching around, one finds that the Marineland Double Bright LEDs (or beamworks) are suggested quite often as a low cost LED solution. I am attempting to show a real world comparison between that fixture and T5s so others can visualize the difference.

Through my findings, the ML DB LEDs work rather well on smaller tanks, such as a 55G. However, I did not believe it held its own on my 125, which can be seen in the photos.

Thanks!


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

LED simply cannot be beaten any longer. The only issue is still the costs of a decent light fixture. Too many people are trying cheap LED fixtures like marine lands and writing off all LED lights but check out the real Cree led lighting... stunning!


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

Exactly.

I know the AI Sols look amazing, but as you stated the problem is price for any entry level aquarist. I did want to put the Marineland Double Bright LED name in the thread title however it was too long and would not be accepted. Feel free to edit the title to anything you feel more fitting to narrow "LED" down to Marineland Double Bright LEDs .

Thanks!


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## theoryguru (Oct 11, 2011)

I have 2 x 36" ML DBL LEDs on my 72" 125g, 22" deep w/ no plants

I'm pleased with them and perhaps I'll purchase newer technology LEDs after the 17,000hr burn out. A common complaint is the moonlights are on the same switch, but there's a great work around DIY remedy on the forum, I stray..

The main reasons I got them was for a) price (a steal for $125/per unit) and
b) energy consumption

If I had a planted tank I woudn't have LEDs. I haven't tested out any other lighting systems, how much does the T5 cost for your setup?


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

The T5 setup that was pictured cost $155 total. That included 4 bulbs and two 36" fixtures.

These are Aqueon/Coralife T5 fixtures from petsmart. They are a bit thicker than the ML DB LED but are much narrower.

While these fixtures did get good reviews from users, I would guess that they are not high end T5's, such as AquaticLife's T5HO fixture. My calculations show that the T5's would run my energy bill up about an extra $6 per month. No where near a deal breaker in my book.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

I have a quad t5HO and like it but the only issue I have is bulb replacement cost. I know $100 once a year is not that bad but I am cheap. I have considered and still am getting a LED fixture to replace my current set up. It will likely be several months or longer as I am trying to get a couple canister filters ordered and need to pay for those first.

I am looking at the 48" beamswork marine/reef bright which is much brighter than the normal freshwater version.


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## Falco16 (Jan 22, 2012)

Did you use same apeture, shutter speed, iso, and color temperature for every shot? Did you shoot Jpeg or RAW? Unless everything was shot exactly the same, you will have flawed difference; not to mention if you didn't post process the pictures exactly too.



jnick said:


> So for the last month I've been driving myself crazy. I have two 36" Marineland Double Bright LEDs on my 125 gallon peacock and hap tank. I swear up and down that the tank simply does not have the look I was after. The colors of the fish seemed washed out or bleak. The fish that I bought from the LFS is not the same fish that was in my tank...at least not color wise!
> 
> Driving my fiance and uncle (who is a salt water junkie) crazy about this, I decided to test it first hand. I purchased two Aqueon 36" T5 dual-bulb fixtures from my local petsmart. I was 85% sure that I would most likely be returning them, but I needed to see for myself if there was a difference. I am also hoping my findings here will provide someone else on these boards help as well!
> 
> ...


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## papasmurf (May 21, 2003)

I had a 4x54W T5HO setup that recently started to give me trouble. I purchased a beamswork 36" 42x1W LED setup and liked it for the most part except that it does not really fill the tank front to back as much as I would like (125g). I purchased another 36" LED this week and it looks alot better now and I am thinking about repairing/tearing apart the T5 setup and running one or two bulbs along the back to fill out the lighting. The light from the LED's is alot whiter than the 10k bulbs I had in the T5 fixture and IMO looks better. The shimmer is great too! The beamsworks are supposed to be brighter fixtures than the ML DB LED's of the same size and are I think equivalent to the ML Reef Bright LED's....FWIW there is a 3w LED fixture that is just now hitting the market as well.


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

Falco16 said:


> Did you use same apeture, shutter speed, iso, and color temperature for every shot? Did you shoot Jpeg or RAW? Unless everything was shot exactly the same, you will have flawed difference; not to mention if you didn't post process the pictures exactly too.


Actually, this is completely incorrect. It is impossible to use the same camera settings. Well, unless you want to look at a completely under exposed shot of the Marineland LEDs that is. Since each fixture gives off a completely different lights, the settings must be adjusted to have any sort of exposure. It's no different than when your eye looks at a tank under a Marineland LED fixture than under a T5 fixture; the eye adjusts to the light.

The sample provided were no post processed at all. The settings were adjusted to match the identical color/lighting effect that you would see in person. What you see in both pictures is exactly what you would see if you were in my house during the test.

I'm not trying to compare which is brighter, which has more lumens, which color temperature is better, etc. I'm not trying to drill down and compare the difference in every aspect of the Marineland LEDs. I'm simply showing a tank with T5's in use and the same tank with Marineland's LEDs in use and aesthetically comparing them.

Some people may like the look of the ML LEDs, and their dimness and white light. I, on the other hand, am not a big fan.


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

jnick said:


> Falco16 said:
> 
> 
> > Did you use same apeture, shutter speed, iso, and color temperature for every shot? Did you shoot Jpeg or RAW? Unless everything was shot exactly the same, you will have flawed difference; not to mention if you didn't post process the pictures exactly too.
> ...


 Thats what we like to call personal preference. For me when I switched to LEDs I was kind of dissapointed from the spread of the light also some of the beaming effects that came with them from cloudy water after a water change. After time you don't even notice it anymore, you just look at your tank and don't even realize its there. Same with the shimmer, many want that look which I did as well, but as time goes on you see the fish and rocks more than the shimmer. Suppose if it were more dramatic, but that also might be a distraction.

Things I do like is the lack of heat. And for me this is a big one,they hide the scratches in my tank. The guy I got the tank from must have used steelwool to clean the glass. With the T5s I had before they stuck out like a sore thumb and it was driving me crazy, to the point I wanted a new tank. When I switched to the LEDs the scratches all but dissapeared. For me that alone was worth it. Scratches do show up when stuff starts to grow in some of the deeper ones but by then it's ready for a water change and cleaning anyway. Power saving wise I could care less, if you had multiple tanks I could see this as a plus, but with just one or two tanks not that big of a deal. Anyway thats my thoughts on the subject, all kinds of light offer something different but it really comes down to what you want for a look..

Good thread =D>


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## paradigmsk8er (Apr 13, 2009)

a lot of the positions in this thread are of good subjective opinion but relatively little objective truth...don't take this the wrong way but there is very little in depth, professional and serious research/knowledge in the freshwater community with regards to LEDs..simply because they are not as hugely groundbreaking as they were to the saltwater community, and thus a lot more time has been spent on that side of the world learning about and developing the LED market..

I would highly recommend anyone on here take a look at the dozens and dozens of threads and vast amounts of detailed, technical info (as well as very highly respected professional opinions) on the reefcentral.com forums. Although I have dabbled in salt, my time is 95% in fresh, and I spent months researching on reefcentral prior to diving into LEDs..

Since freshwater LEDs are really a nicety, not a necessity (though this can be argued for SW as well) a lot of the fixtures most freshwater caregivers go for have a ton of marketing hype, a lot of misleading info floating around, and are typically low priced. There is a lot more time spent for SW due to their huge importance and the amount of money sunk into the fixtures, tank setups and livestock. Luckily for those of us interested, while the value as it applies to coral growth may be of minimal importance, a lot of other helpful info can be gleaned from their threads, time money and research.

I'm not going to get into a ton of detail (and I am a junior amateur when it comes to LED info...) but PAR as measured for non-LED lighting isn't a necessarily good translation for lighting oomph as compared to PUR...

also, remember that the eye really struggles to pick up an evenly balanced, full spectrum light. This is why a lot of SW users have "bleached" their corals when first setting up because to their eyes it doesn't look that bright, but in reality they are twice or three times the light output iwth LED as they were with MH...so it is literally impossible to compare T-5 or any other lighting to LED...you just can't visually analyze the spectrum appropriately. In addition to that, you can't give a fair estimate of power (since your eyes don't evenly pick up the spectrum) so you may be giving a huge boost in white light, but around the same oomph for blue light (most likely) since you are more sensitive to blue..

and in a similar vain....even the highest end camera has a hard time translating what the eye sees onto a computer screen...so short story (and this is illustrated all over reef central) you can take a wonderful picture, but it may look like a turd in real life through you eyes, or vice versa.

moreover right now there is a big push in the LED market to create "full spectrum" fixtures..most out there now are white LEDs, white+blue (or various shades of blue and white) LEDs, or some go so far as to include a few RGY spectrum LEDs...

for SW there is a big debate as to the benefits for coral growth...for FW it is arguable that the addition of the red and yellow LEDs may be of benefit to plant growth. Overall they will help the user be able to even FURTHER fine tune the spectrum to either a) best suit the user's eyes and the visual appeal of the tank or b) give the most balanced spectrum..for now, if you look at spectrum graphs, most of it is in the blue and white area with some hanging-ons in red, yellow green due to the curve of the output, but much weaker than the white/blue.

Luckily for us, there are several manufacturers out there starting to make high-end fixtures geared towards the FW market (with full spectrum LEDs) and some of the high end planted tank guys are picking it up and running with it.

Unfortunately there also is a lot of talk about the cheap LED fixtures out there right now, and then some not-so-good feedback. Completely understood as it can still be a formidable initial cost and for those not interested in that up front it makes more sense to spread the economics out over time with replacement bulbs, ballasts, etc. But these low end fixtures have long been left in the dust and literally employ some of the least desirable technologies...ie low power LEDs, lack of control, lack of spectrum, lack of flexibility.

When you step up to the mid end (AI Sol, ecotech radion) or high end (vertex illumina, kessils, etc) you get a LOT more out of the fixture...for us it usually means turning the power down to 20% since we don't need it all, but you have the controllability, the flexibility, efficiency and spectrum adjustability you want.

I personally am running AI Sol (whites) for about 12 months now and could not be happier...2 fixtures and a controller cover my 5 foot 100 gallon and provide waaay more than enough power, but also the ability to customize my sunset, sunrise, thunderstorm, lighting times, and visible color. Since I am not concerned with growing corals, I can just adjust the visible color to best suit my eye.

This isn't necessarily an argument by me for everyone to switch to AI Sols or other high end fixtures-it isn't for everyone and for some the low end fixtures cut the cake. But basically what my point is is it really is apples and oranges. And you absolutely cannot lump the beamworks, marineland, or junk LED fixtures into the LED wagon and make a decision off of that.

It is a huge financial investment, but they save you on electricity, they provide you with a lot of niceties, and you probably won't have to replace an LED...right now there are fixtures running 3 years (about as old as the high ends are right now) without needing a new LED...and for most of them, you can just replace the puck or single LED.

I encourage you to reach outside of the FW realm and take advantage of the work our SW brethren have done in the LED market. Again, not everything they are looking at translates to FW, but a lot does.


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

While I like what you have to say I don't really have the time or the need to dive into all that. In other words I am happy with what I have. If I had a SW tank I am sure it would be different. 
I love my 2 tanks but I spend more time with my family and trying to dial my golf clubs in on the course. :lol:

Nice pcs though!!


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

paradigmsk8er said:


> This isn't necessarily an argument by me for everyone to switch to AI Sols or other high end fixtures-it isn't for everyone and for some the low end fixtures cut the cake. But basically what my point is is it really is apples and oranges. And you absolutely cannot lump the beamworks, marineland, or junk LED fixtures into the LED wagon and make a decision off of that.


This is exactly something I stated in the beginning of this thread when Number6 corrected me. As a matter of a fact, I specifically mention AI Sols :thumb:

As a minor update, I purchased 2x36" AquaticLife Dual lamp T5HO fixtures. Just got them two days ago...and Wow! They have completely transformed the look of my tank. I went with the Marine version to get the 10k and Actinic. I love new lights. It was one of those "Now THAT'S a tank..." moment.

Tomorrow I'm tearing everything down to try my last option with cleaning my glass. Once I am done with that I will post up some pictures :thumb:


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## shocker123 (Mar 20, 2011)

Wow what a thread. All I am saying is that I have had Aquaticlife 2x48" for about 2 months now and cannot complain


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## littleolme (Nov 1, 2011)

Give it 3-5 years and we'll see where LEDs are. Cheap LED set-ups (like Marineland/Beamswork) are not a fair comparison to the higher end products where you can control colour temperature, intensity, etc. Even now, the high end LEDs aren't that much more than the high end T5HO fixture. They are only going to get cheaper and fluorescent lighting will probably go the way of the dinosaur in time. Personally, I can't wait, they are absolutely awesome.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

littleolme said:


> Give it 3-5 years and we'll see where LEDs are. Cheap LED set-ups (like Marineland/Beamswork) are not a fair comparison to the higher end products where you can control colour temperature, intensity, etc. Even now, the high end LEDs aren't that much more than the high end T5HO fixture. They are only going to get cheaper and fluorescent lighting will probably go the way of the dinosaur in time. Personally, I can't wait, they are absolutely awesome.


So they make a fixture that allows you to control color temp? That is really cool and the only drawback I have seen to the fixture I have been looking at.


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## paradigmsk8er (Apr 13, 2009)

most of the "higher end" fixtures allow some sort of control of the color temperature. It is simply controlled by dimming the various channels to get at the desired temperature (of note...you have to do it by eye, it's not like the controllers allow you to choose 10k, 12k, 20k, 6.5k etc)

That being said it's effective. Right now they tend to stray towards the higher end of the spectrum due to the reef prevalence.

And just to be clear-I wasn't criticizing anyone in my post, just trying to be informative to all. I don't hang around here much anymore, but while I was deployed I had the (luxury) of plenty of hours to just research LED lighting since I wasn't home..most of that came from the SW world and hopefully some people here can use it. I will use LED on every tank with the exception of breeders/grow outs now..and even then probably PAR38s...


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Aqua Illumination are controllable, not cheap though.


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

jnick said:


> As a minor update, I purchased 2x36" AquaticLife Dual lamp T5HO fixtures. Just got them two days ago...and Wow! They have completely transformed the look of my tank. I went with the Marine version to get the 10k and Actinic. I love new lights. It was one of those "Now THAT'S a tank..." moment.
> 
> Tomorrow I'm tearing everything down to try my last option with cleaning my glass. Once I am done with that I will post up some pictures :thumb:


As promised! The pictures can be seen here:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... 54#1733754


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