# Throwing in the towel



## Evilpenguinj (Mar 22, 2008)

Hi Everyone

I am quite frustrated. I have been trying to cycle my tank with ammonia for well over a month now with no results. I tested it today, and the nitrites are still really high. Ammonia is not going down unless I leave it for a day. I don't understand what I am doing wrong. To top it all off the power went off for a few seconds this morning causing the Marineland 360 to start burping out bubbles like crazy! I just feel like it should not be this difficult. So should I throw in the towel and start selling everything, or can someone help fix my problem quickly...the kids keeping asking where are the fish daddy!

Jason


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Did you ever consider a bad test kit?

Exactly what is it that you are doing?

IMO I would not throw in the towel but just let the aquarium sit and ignore it for a few days and then check on it.


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## Evilpenguinj (Mar 22, 2008)

How would I know if the test kit is bad? I have the master freshwater kit from API. I have been adding the same amount of ammonia daily which brings it up to around 3ppm or so. If I let the aquarium sit for a few says the ammonia will drop to zero and possibly the nitrites too, but I thought they were supposed to drop to zero even after I was still adding ammonia.

Jason :?


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## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

i didnt use ammonia (dont like chemicals) i through a dirty filter cartridge in the tank with some mollies (goldfish work too). believe it or not, throught the crappy water my mollies bred. Just be patient give it a week with some fish in there then test it, dont give up its worth it in the end


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## gtsum (Feb 25, 2008)

well, I would not throw in the towell just yet! I understand the whole cycle thing, but honestly, keeping cichlids is not that complicated imo...I set my tank up and let her run for a day and threw a few cichlids in there....not sure if they would live or not, but they did, and then I kept adding more fish and all is good..been running for about 9 months now....imo, just get some fish, throw them in there (with the realization that they may not make it) and get her cycled...the fish are pretty tough...as long as your PH is consistant, temp is 76-82, and you do water changes every now and then, you will be good (in the beginning make sure to test your water so you get a feel for how quickly the ammonia and nitrates, nitrites build up). Good luck


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## Michael R. (Oct 7, 2005)

The point of adding the ammonia _is_ so that you get a reading of 3 ppm; you're feeding the bacteria, keeping them alive!

And secondly, since the nitrites have now peaked, it could be any day that they level off and you start seeing nitrates, and when that happnes, you'll be finished.

You have to be patient in this hobby. Don't worry, you're almost there!


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## Evilpenguinj (Mar 22, 2008)

So should I keep adding the ammonia every day? I believe there are Nitrates in the water now? But whenever I test the Nitrites, it starts out bright purple and then tends to fade a bit close to the 5 minute mark. It's been going on like this for way more than a week. :?


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

If everything is dropping and you are showing nitrates it is cycling.

Like I said if you add ammonia and notice that the ammonia is gone by ignoring the tank then it is obviously doing something.


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

stick with it man, dont throw in the towel, if you are reading high nitrates they should begin dropping off quickly. be patient and let things happen, all will be good. also if you can get your hands on old filter media from an established tank add that to your own to promote bacterial growth. just make sure if you get it from a friend or pet store that you keep it in water during transport and get it in your tank. also make sure your ammonia leval is up when you add the media, the bacteria need the ammonia for food. if they dont get it the bacteria can die and the purpose of used media is lost. I am currently doing a fishless cycle on a new 60g, i used alot of old media from my old tanks, as well as old water, driftwood, and some gravel, its only been a couple days and my ammonia is dropping quite quickly. the more you add to your tank from established tanks the quicker your tank will cycle. hang in there! it will all be worth it when your done.


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## boostspike (Apr 3, 2007)

BioSpira or used filter media is the key. Why are ppl still spending so much time cycling a tank the old fashion way? Why not use whats avail. to us? Pop some Biospira in there and you the kids can enjoy the fishies within minutes not days.


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## Evilpenguinj (Mar 22, 2008)

Well from what I know I don't think Biospira is available in Canada. I don't really have access to old filter media. I will test all my values this morning and post them here.

Jason


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## Evilpenguinj (Mar 22, 2008)

OK all

Here are my test results. I usually add a set amount ammonia every morning. I did this yesterday but not today before I did the tests:

PH 7.8
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrites: 1.0ppm
Nitrates 5.0ppm

What do you all think?

Jason


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## ddaquaria (Jan 3, 2004)

Did I miss something here. You are going to throw in the proverbial towel before you even get fish.... :? Do you know someone else with an aquarium? Are the close? Next time they do a water change, get a few gallons (several liters) of there old water and cycle your tank with it. There are so many other options right now besides quitting.... :thumb:


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## Paulbearer (Aug 29, 2005)

Do they sale a product called Cycle there in your Department stores fish section or pet stores? I used it on my 55 gallon about 5 days ago and i'm cycled already and with fish. I've always used this on my tank with great success, but some have not. If you want to help the cycle along, try using some of that.

If it was me, if you can get some cycle, just drain your tank, fill it back up. Put in some cycle with a few Black Skirt Tetras to keep it going with the Cycle product and check your values in a few days and you will be pleasantly surprised that you are cycled. Just add a few fish at a time over a week or two for the bacteria to keep up with the load you are adding to it and remember to do the weekly water changes. If you have any questions, feel free to message me. Heck, I could even go to the store and buy the stuff for you and ship it to you if that will keep you in the hobby. This stuff does NOT have to be refrigerated like some other products. There is some out there that will argue that it can't work then, but I promise you, i've used it for years on my tanks and never had one problem with it ever.


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## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

yah canada has cycle, in my area at least. Big als sells it, pet valu, dunno about petsmart(probably do), havent checked wally mart and PJs pets sells it


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## Evilpenguinj (Mar 22, 2008)

Do I have to drain my tank to use that or can it just be added to the water?

Jason


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## tonyh67 (Jul 19, 2008)

Evilpenguinj said:


> OK all
> 
> Here are my test results. I usually add a set amount ammonia every morning. I did this yesterday but not today before I did the tests:
> 
> ...


I've never done fishless cycling, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're nearly ready for fish. The 5ppm of NitrAtes indicate that you have all the necessary bacteria. I would think you could stop adding Ammonia at this point and add fish as soon as Ammonia and NitrItes fall to 0.


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## dementedarego (May 8, 2008)

I would just go for it. Whn I cycle tanks I just use some water from other tanks, or just dechlor and usesome un important fish. I would just go buy 5 tetras If they make it you are golden. and they will help balance out everything too.


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## dementedarego (May 8, 2008)

I would just go for it. Whn I cycle tanks I just use some water from other tanks, or just dechlor and usesome un important fish. I would just go buy 5 tetras If they make it you are golden. and they will help balance out everything too.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Wow, you're getting a lot of advice, some conflicting. A few more thoughts:

Don't drain all your water out of your tank as you don't want to dry out the bacteria that is living in your rocks and gravel, and there is no need.

Getting dirty water from another tank won't help you. The bacteria doesn't live in the water.

If you can get gravel, rocks or old filter media from an existing tank (perhaps at your LFS), you will "seed" your tank with bacteria and be good to go. This is also the concept behind Biospira, which works, IMHO, very well. There is a new version that is not refrigerated. If it's not available in Canada, order it to be shipped. Add it and fish and you're ready to go.

Prime will detoxify ammonia and nitrites and while they might still test on your APi (not sure about that), they won't hurt your fish.

Yes, your cycle is nearly complete as you are showing nitrates, so you're at the end.


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## Evilpenguinj (Mar 22, 2008)

Yes there has been a lot of advice. I think the question is should I stop adding ammonia and let the numbers drop to zero then add fish? I am going on a two week holiday, so I don't think I should do anything till I get back. I will leave the tank running, but it shouldn't undo anything I have done to this point right?

Jason


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

> Wow, you're getting a lot of advice, some conflicting. A few more thoughts:
> 
> Don't drain all your water out of your tank as you don't want to dry out the bacteria that is living in your rocks and gravel, and there is no need.
> 
> ...


+1

Bio-Spira over cycle. Cycle and Bio-Spira have totaly different bacteria and I have heard many call cycle a gimmick.

I honestly dont think within 2 days anything would go wrong. Maybe give it a good dose before you leave with some Ammonia and thats it.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

OP is going on a two-week (not two day) vacation. If you don't add ammonia (or fish) during the two weeks you are gone, I believe you will lose the current bacteria you have and will have to start the cycle over.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

:thumb: My bad I dont know how I did that one.

2 weeks? Man that is a bit of time even for a tank with fish in it. What would you do if yo had the fish in it? Would you be relying on a friend or relative?


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## Evilpenguinj (Mar 22, 2008)

I guess I would have to get someone to come in. If I have then come in every few days and put a pre-determined amount of ammonia in I will probably be fine. What do you think?

Jason


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## gunner36 (May 10, 2008)

You are over thinking it imo. Get some barbs or some tetras, put them in there and let it do its thing. I am not a fan of fishless cycling unless you are going to go straight to putting pricy fish in the tank. I use tiger barbs most of the time to cycle my tanks, they are tough and it works great. It would be easier for you, when you are gone have someone come and feed them, that is easier then having someone add amonia.

Your kids will be happier, cause there will be fish in the tank.

That is just my opinion, if you want to keep going the way you are by all means do it, this is about your enjoyment not ours. However dont let it frustrate you, it can at times be a trying hobby, but to me the joy outweighs the trying times it will for you also once you get the fish in there. Good luck.


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## NYjets51 (Feb 10, 2008)

gunner36 said:


> You are over thinking it imo. Get some barbs or some tetras, put them in there and let it do its thing. I am not a fan of fishless cycling unless you are going to go straight to putting pricy fish in the tank. I use tiger barbs most of the time to cycle my tanks, they are tough and it works great. It would be easier for you, when you are gone have someone come and feed them, that is easier then having someone add amonia.
> 
> Your kids will be happier, cause there will be fish in the tank.
> 
> That is just my opinion, if you want to keep going the way you are by all means do it, this is about your enjoyment not ours. However dont let it frustrate you, it can at times be a trying hobby, but to me the joy outweighs the trying times it will for you also once you get the fish in there. Good luck.


I agree, cycling with fish is just so much easier. You don't have to worry about all these chemicals and all that.


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## dementedarego (May 8, 2008)

LIke I said before. Just go for it. Start small The cheapest fish you can get yur hands, aside from feeders. then just use one of those vacation feeder blocks. IMO, Chris


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

I am going through the same scenario as the OP on my newest tank. It has been about 6 weeks for me. But after a lot of the responses I am surprised how many people on this forum still use starter fish to cycle.

One member of this forum that has a lot of knowledge about cycling is prov356. There are a lot of great discussions on this forum that provide good information and advice about fishless cycling. In fact this thread is very useful:
http://www.cichlidforum.com/phpBB/viewt ... 8d3106a2d5

Someone said that water does not contain bacteria. I am pretty sure that is not correct.

But to respond to what can be some misconceptions about fishless cycling:

1. It is marginally easier to use use live fish to cycle your tank compared to fishless cycling. As far as being easier to use live fish to cycle - the only difference is that you don't add the ammonia yourself. But I would think most people don't find it that hard to add a capful of ammonia to the tank every day or so. But I suppose that is subjective. Either method you choose you still have to measure the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels to know when the cycle is complete. One important note is that this does not apply if you add your show fish right away. In this case you aren't "cycling" your tank before you add your fish.

2. All ammonia is the same. I was surprised to see someone say they dont do fishless cycling because they dont want to add chemicals (ammonia) to their tank. No matter what method you use to cycle your tank, you need a source of ammonia. No ammonia means no cycle. When you use live fish they act as your ammonia source. In fishless cycling you are using the ammonia out of a bottle instead of from fish poop and pee. As it turns out ammonia is ammonia regardless of where it comes from.

3. Both methods are the same. This is the most important point that people confuse so please read carefully. Whether you choose to cycle your tank with fish or without fish the process is _exactly the same_. I'll repeat for emphasis, whether you choose to cycle your tank with fish or without fish the process is exactly the same. As a result both methods take equally as long. I'll repeat for emphasis, both methods take equally as long.

And as far as how long, the average is usually 4-6 weeks. If you use cycle/biospira/established tank media then it could (and should) go quicker.

But let's be fair. Cycle times can only be compared to similar situations, and there are many variables in cycling: water quality (tap source and tank), initial bacteria source, temperature, what is in the tank, etc. For example, if I choose to use live fish to cycle and I use biospira or media from an established tank, and it takes me 1 week to cycle - and then someone else uses fishless cycling but does not use biospira or media from an established tank and it takes them 6 weeks to cycle - you cannot conclude that fishless cycling takes longer. Again, the ammonia cycle process is the same for both methods. And the cycling process takes just as long for each method.


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## 3569Ryan (Jul 8, 2008)

Just put some fish in your tank don't be scared! you can put some Danios or goldfish or guppys. If you don't like fish you can get a lizard or a snake. A lot of people fill an aquarium halfway and have turtles, or salamanders.


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## Evilpenguinj (Mar 22, 2008)

Well I have stopped adding ammonia for a few days and the Nitrites tended to go higher. I am not going to add ammonia until Nitrites drop to zero, then I will probably add fish. Do you think that will be ok?

Jason


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## Evilpenguinj (Mar 22, 2008)

Delete me!


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## Champ (Jul 31, 2008)

Make a large water change, use Prime as your water conditioner and add some BioSpira.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

Evilpenguinj said:


> Well I have stopped adding ammonia for a few days and the Nitrites tended to go higher. I am not going to add ammonia until Nitrites drop to zero, then I will probably add fish. Do you think that will be ok?
> 
> Jason


If you stop adding ammonia then the bacteria will die off. Nitrite and nitrate will eventually level of and stop increasing because you will have "starved" the bacteria. You need to do the exact opposite - _add_ ammonia until the nitrites drop to zero.


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## dementedarego (May 8, 2008)

Just add the fish. Dont be scared. No one gets it perfect. and once you have fish the tank will begin to naturally stabilize.


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## cevvin (May 2, 2008)

My first tank I had no used media or substrate and runs great. All i did was through in Molly's and do daily cycle changes. After it cycles just buy a 10g and put the molly's in your kids bedroom or something.

With my new tank i managed to pull an instant cycle with those same 3 molly's, a used penguin 100, and some used substrate.

That being said.... Just throw $5-$10 worth of fish in there and see what happens.


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