# Ps. Saulosi Tank Setup/Problems with algae & dying Pleco



## lil_stevies (Oct 3, 2011)

*Short Story: *

40g-main/20g-planted system kills plecos overnight. All other fish are healthy.

*Long Story:*

So here I have a 40 gallon tank with 11 Ps. Saulosi in it. It runs on an overflow system to a 20g-long planted tank/sump/fry tank/refugium etc. (Pics below)

There are currently Saulosi and Nyererei fry growing in the planted tank.

On 3 seperate occasions I have purchased Plecos for the tank and none of them survive past the first night.

I bought one bushy nose (non-albino) from the LFS and found him dead the next morning. Figuring he was sick, I bought another bushy nose from a _different _LFS. He also died overnight, first night in the tank.

I have started to have some problems keeping brown algae off the glass, sand, and leaves in the planted tank due to the amount of light necessary for the plants.

As my algae problems have become worse I decided to try placing another Pleco in the tank. This is ~3 months after the first two. I bought some blue dwarf pleco species (from a new LFS with great rep) and sure enough, once again I found him the next morning on the bottom of the tank with his dorsal and other fins spread stiffly to their maximum.

Any insight as to why this is happening? All of my Saulosi adults and fry are doing just fine in the system, breeding/active/displaying color, etc.

+Water gets tested and changed ~40% every 3 days and all parameters are ideal.

+Temp stays 76*-79* (F)

+They are all fed flake made of a mixture of plants and vegetables including spirulina, carrots, squash, seaweed, and spinach.

*Here are some more pics of everything:* (Click images for larger.)

(Notice the brown algae on the sand and leaves of the plants.)


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

I,m pretty sure your fish are responsible for the deaths,I,ve read that its hit or miss adding plecos with mbuna
Loving your saulosi tank,what are the ratios?I recently traded my adult group,I had 1 m 12 f in a 4 foot 75,bred like rabbits and had 100s of fry in the last 6 months,I think I might keep a batch of 30 or so fry and try them in a 40 breeder,grow them out ,until I get the proper ratios


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## lil_stevies (Oct 3, 2011)

newforestrob said:


> I,m pretty sure your fish are responsible for the deaths,I,ve read that its hit or miss adding plecos with mbuna
> Loving your saulosi tank,what are the ratios?I recently traded my adult group,I had 1 m 12 f in a 4 foot 75,bred like rabbits and had 100s of fry in the last 6 months,I think I might keep a batch of 30 or so fry and try them in a 40 breeder,grow them out ,until I get the proper ratios


The first two died in the big tank but this third one, that I know was healthy, died overnight just like the others but in the PLANTED tank. :-?

I watched him in there right after I put him in for ~4 hours and he looked happy motoring down the algae on the glass and plant leaves.

It is 1:10 ratio right now but 5 are juvies and I think 2 of them are males (soon to begin changing color), which would put me at 3M:8F.


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

Are you dripping the pleco's as you add them or just throwing them straight into the tank? A sudden change in water parameters could cause extreme stress and potential death.

Also, what are your parameters for the tanks?


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## malady (Nov 20, 2011)

maybe enough hiding spots for plecos?

my saulosi seriously start gang banging on my pleco and he has to take off to shelter 
also try to get one at least 4inches long

also could be water since it seems sort of strange you have gone through 3


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## lil_stevies (Oct 3, 2011)

dsouthworth said:


> Are you dripping the pleco's as you add them or just throwing them straight into the tank? A sudden change in water parameters could cause extreme stress and potential death.
> 
> Also, what are your parameters for the tanks?


Not dripping them, but let all 3 sit in the water to allow for temp to change etc.

pH:7.8
Alkalinity: 180ppm
Chlorine: 0
Hardness (GH): 300ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10ppm
Ammonia: 0
Temp: 79.6


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## lil_stevies (Oct 3, 2011)

malady said:


> maybe enough hiding spots for plecos?
> 
> my saulosi seriously start gang banging on my pleco and he has to take off to shelter
> also try to get one at least 4inches long
> ...


I thought about that as well, but when this third pleco died in the sump tank, I knew it couldn't be aggression.

If the water was far enough off to kill the plecos overnight, wouldn't it also kill my little fry?


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

I would try dripping them before you start looking for a more complicated answer. When they are sitting in the bag, adjusting to the temp, start adding small amounts of tank water. Every 30 mins add more untill you feel satisfied that you have saturated the bag with tank water.

Then eiter net, or grab the pleco and slowly release him into your tank. A massive change in hardness and pH can be deadly. Pleco's are probably the hardiest fish out there, but this is the only thing I can thing of :/


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I would look at pollutants or medicines that may still be hanging around. Catfish are pretty different than many other fish so it seems there may be something that kills them but not the fry.


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

PfunMo said:


> I would look at pollutants or medicines that may still be hanging around. Catfish are pretty different than many other fish so it seems there may be something that kills them but not the fry.


This is very true. Of you havent added any meds tho, maybe it's still worth adding a few handfuls of carbon to a filter?

Pleco's are amazing fish, I really hope you can sort this out.


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

If you want another option to control algae you can try some olive nerites. I use them in my daffodil tank and they are built like tanks and very hardy. They do a really good job grazing the algae and fair a lot better than any fish in with breeding cichlids.


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## lil_stevies (Oct 3, 2011)

*** never used any meds in the water and use a carbon filter in the sump for about a week every other month or so. Other than that I just change the water a lot.

The snails were my next bet. It is just very odd to me that 3 seperate fish, from 3 different stores, at 3 different times all died within the first night in the tank.

This last one I even put in there in the morning, he was active and eating all day...next morning, dead on the bottom.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

It is a bummer to not be able to figure. What are the odds of something like a small toy or BB's getting in the tank? I'm thinking like something that would kill the catfish but not other fish as quickly. We pretty much think of plecos as bullet proof but there are some things that kill them first.

Very odd, for sure.


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## lil_stevies (Oct 3, 2011)

PfunMo said:


> It is a bummer to not be able to figure. What are the odds of something like a small toy or BB's getting in the tank? I'm thinking like something that would kill the catfish but not other fish as quickly. We pretty much think of plecos as bullet proof but there are some things that kill them first.
> 
> Very odd, for sure.


No, no chance of anything like that...maybe something in the rocks?


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## Woodworm (Jan 3, 2009)

The fastest thing that I can think of that can kill a pleco is copper and I wonder if there is some source "downstream" or in your tank that you are unaware of.


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## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

Woodworm said:


> The fastest thing that I can think of that can kill a pleco is copper and I wonder if there is some source "downstream" or in your tank that you are unaware of.


I was thinking copper too, you read my mind! :-?


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

We normally do so much water changing and rocks dissolve so slowly that I have never given much thought to rocks being a problem. Sometimes what is on the rocks but not the rock itself.


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## Woodworm (Jan 3, 2009)

I have some rocks that I picked up out of a stream in Oregon several years ago that I would love to put in a tank, but since they are green I was told they are copper oxide (or something like that) I won't ever use them other then accents in the flower bed.


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## lil_stevies (Oct 3, 2011)

The rock is lace rock from a LFS. It was soaked and washed before it was put in there.

Tomorrow I'll go pick up another pleco, drip him for a couple hours, then put him in the sump. If he dies its olive nerites I guess :-?


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## lil_stevies (Oct 3, 2011)

Alright lets try this one more time...off to the store :fish:

I'll drip this one for 2hrs.


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## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

lil_stevies said:


> Alright lets try this one more time...off to the store :fish:
> 
> I'll drip this one for 2hrs.


 opcorn: Good luck!


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## lil_stevies (Oct 3, 2011)

Spoke to the owner at the local aquatic plant store (which is the cleanest nicest store I've ever been in) and he said he thought the reason for the dying Plecos was some kind of rapid gas transfer happening at night.

I went with a handful of Nerite snails instead. Tiger Bloods, Zebras, and an Olive. :fish:


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## Woodworm (Jan 3, 2009)

lil_stevies said:


> Spoke to the owner at the local aquatic plant store (which is the cleanest nicest store I've ever been in) and he said he thought the reason for the dying Plecos was some kind of rapid gas transfer happening at night.


 :-? :?
never heard of that. Can you explain?


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## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

lil_stevies said:


> Spoke to the owner at the local aquatic plant store (which is the cleanest nicest store I've ever been in) and he said he thought the reason for the dying Plecos was some kind of rapid gas transfer happening at night.
> 
> I went with a handful of Nerite snails instead. Tiger Bloods, Zebras, and an Olive. :fish:


What is rapid gas transfer and did he explain why it would kill a pleco? Never heard of such an explanation. Not trying to be challenging here just want to learn.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Plants do change gas transfer at night but I can't think of a way that it would kill fish that would limit it to pleco only. Hummm ! Got me confused. Still an interesting question of what is causing the pleco only to die. Possibly the store owner is as confused as we area bout this and is stretching to try to think of a real good reason. Actually it sounds about as rational as any I can think up right now.

Is it possible this happened during the recent political debates in Arizona? Those are enough to kill sometimes!!! (Rapid GAS exchanges?)


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

I was having issues with my nano planted tank at nighttime. The fish would be at the surface gasping an hour or two after light's out. I had to add a bubbler that I turned on at night. I have never had an issue like this before, but this one is the most heavily planted tank I have ever done.

For the gas exchange thing while the light is on photosynthesis is taking place and the plants are adding oxygen to the water. When the lights are off the plants shift to respiration where they remove oxygen from the water. If you have enough plants, and too little surface agitation to aid in gas exchange then things can get rough.

I have only had an issue with this in this one tank of mine, but it is entirely carpeted in microswords and I used a lilly return from the canister that didn't do much to stir the surface, just made a little vortex.

Your tank doesn't seem very heavily planted to be causing this issue, but I am not an expert. All of that aside I am also not sure why only the plecos are having an issue with this and not the other fish, so I would take the gas exchange explanation with a grain of salt. Possible, but not likely imho.


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## S14Swap240sx (Jan 3, 2011)

I still think its a dripping issue.. my lfs wont guarantee a bn pleco if you put it in a high ph tank.. they do have them already acclimated to high ph tho, and wont guarantee those if put into a lower ph tank..


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## lil_stevies (Oct 3, 2011)

He made it sound like the opposite of that. That once my plants grow out to be much more lush, that I should try the pleco then.

My _first _two plecos, however, died with no plants/sump in the system. The refugium was added later on.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Adding more water agitation or a powerhead with the aerator tube would assure you it was not a lack of O2. It would seem you would have enough but that would give you something real to look over. More O2 certainly will not hurt anything but will it help??? Still a bummer.


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