# Gouramis



## ct2393

I have two Gouramis that I think are dominating the tank. They came with my 55 gal tank along with a Pleco which is about 7 inches and a small catfish. The Gouramis are about 3 inches long and are always together.

When I got the tank I broke it down and cleaned everything but I did not touch the filter knowing that there is all the good bacteria

Once I set it up I purchased some "throw away" fish so I could get it up and stabilized. I think I followed all the best practice when it came to that. I have also tested the water for PH, Nitrates and ammonia and all are good.

The problem is all the throw away fish are dead. I think the Gouramis killed them all. So, now I am going to switch over to malawi cichlids and I am worried that the Gouramis are going to do the same to the new fish. Anything I can do to make sure it does not happen.


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## Floridagirl

The Malwais will kill the Gourami. Return them to your LFS or rehome to a friend. There is a product called Bio Spira that will allow you to put in a large bioload of fish at once. Please research before you start. A good starting point is

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_55g.php :thumb:


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## KaiserSousay

Beg to differ Floridagirl


> The Malwais will kill the Gourami


My "blue gourami", trichogaster trichopterus, gets on just fine in my Malawi..Mbuna tank. Has the upper left, front of the tank as his spot. Competes for food just like my cichlids. Even chases others from his "space"
ct2393, if you give your cichlids places to hide(plants, rocks, caves, etc.)they will be fine.
Good Luck


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## Floridagirl

KaiserSousay,

How long have you had them in your tank? Gourami are aggressive (especially Blue Gourami), and they may last for a while, but I've never heard of this working long term. And what part of Florida? I'm in Panama City.


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## KaiserSousay

Hi all..tank mates have been together for about a year..give or take. Big Blue is all that was left from a usual mix tank..pre cichlids..that was eaten alive(literally)by a mono sabe. The bigger he got, the less fish I had.
That is what got me looking at cichlids, but even they were no match for the mono.
Finally bit the bullet, shipped the mono off to another and started to rebuild with cichlids, only good thing that came out of the whole mono disaster.

Treasure Coaster..Port St. Lucie


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## Floridagirl

CT2393,

If you want to try it, I would advise having another tank set up Just in case. 

KaiseySousay,

I'm glad that it's worked out for you. 8) One thing about fish, they don't know the rules! I've seen a lot of odd combinations, and tried some myself. What works for one person, is a disaster for another. Also, Mbuna have different levels of aggression and sizes, as do Gourami. For example, what works with a tank full of Yellow Labs, and Acei, may not work for a tank full of Kenyi or Saulosi. And if you start out with 1"' Mbuna, and the Gouramis are 2-3", the Mbuna could get picked on until he grows up to defend itself (which won't be long).. IMO, it's not worth the risk to both fish, to try and keep these species together, having heard of many that have tried and failed.

Saw the Partly Cloudy part and was sure you were in the Panhandle...lol


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## bernie comeau

KaiserSousay said:


> ct2393, if you give your cichlids places to hide(plants, rocks, caves, etc.)they will be fine.
> Good Luck


I agree, 100%. Don't worry about the Gourami picking on the mbuna; Gouramis tend to occupy the upper areas -- Space the cichlids tend to use a little less of. The mbuna tend to use the lower areas moreso. In time, the Gouramis are sure to end up closer to the bottom of the pecking order, even if it manages to contiue OWNING space in the upper areas.

I have had Blue Gouramis live and thrive in cichlid tanks MANY times for well over 5 years; it is not simply KaiserSousays "freak" experience! I have kept them in mixed cichlid tanks ( CA/SA and West African) that also included 1-2 aggressive mbuna ( zebra, auratus etc.) Had them in tanks that include breeding cons, for years and years. Seen gouramis thriving in other's cichlid tanks, many times.

Here's a couple picturs from 30 years back:










Male blue gourami amongst a female mayan, 2 male JD, male Mozambique, and female gold mozambique in a 5 ft. 90 gal., ~1978-79.










This is a very poor picture of the same tank that I actually took myself , a little earlier then the last pic. Male blue gourami can be made out in the top left corner. Female Crenichla sp. "venuzuela" and female OB morph zebra, also can be made out in the picture.

Those on this forum that think a danio or a tetra is your ONLY option for a 'dither' or "target" fish should take note: KaiserSousay's blue gourami is the only fish from a "usual mix" to survive his mono sabe.


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## dwarfpike

I guess it depends on which gourami the OP has. I agree if it is indeed any version of the 2 spot gourami (blue, gold, opaline, platinum, 3 spot, ect ect) it will probably be fine. If it's a member of the _Colisa_ genus, I wouldn't try it with africans though. They don't tend to have the same spunk and size IME.


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## bernie comeau

dwarfpike said:


> I guess it depends on which gourami


Yes, that is a very good point. I guess I just assumed :lol: the OP had some strain of Trichogaster trichopterus, since it had killed off the other community fish. There is a BIG difference compared to most other small gouramis; it get's bigger and is usually a lot tougher.

The other gourami that did well in my cichlid tanks was the paradise fish though it doesn't really get large enough. Betta as well is a tough little fish but is just way too small.

I have seen pictures and heard of others that have successfully kept Giant Gouramis with cichlids, and would love to have one but of course the fish gets WAY too big for any of my tanks.


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## dwarfpike

Yeah, I assumed it was _Trichogaster trichopterus_ as well for the same reason *bernie*!! :lol: But even in the same genus, pearls and moonlights aren't as pushy as 2 spots ... though snakeskins have been IME.

I don't doubt the paradisefish at all, and the larger bettas in the unimaculata could probably hold their own too.

Yeah, those true giants just get too huge. Supposed to taste good though.


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## Floridagirl

Apparently, I stand corrected...again 
It still wouldn't be my choice of a mbuna tankmate, though..


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## dwarfpike

*Floridagirl* - Don't worry about it, even though I think I could do it ... I certainly wouldn't. It just wouldn't look right to me. :thumb: So you aren't alone in 'wouldn't do.'


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## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

dont think that gouramis cant hold their own. I would recommend that you dont mix them. however I have seen gouramis hold their own, and in fact chase off cichlids.

just as a quick note here, the story I mention happened quite a few years ago, and wasn't my mistake (was the parents that chose the fish, and they were ignoring my advise)

My parents went to a big chain store and picked up a load of fish, quite a few neons, a plec some "honey" gouramies and some "harlaquin rasboras". get home and the things are put in the tank. a couple days later I look through the tank and see something I didnt recognise, and get told that they were "harlaquin rasboras" and I knew straight off they weren't. a bit of research I'd worked out they were cichlids, so go about looking into what they were exactly. (turned out to be astronotus orbiculatus (possibly a junior synonym of A. ocellatus, however I've never seen a standard oscar with anywhere like the same colourings as these did)) now these oscars had killed a few of the neons (their all around the 1-2" mark) and a pair of the honey gouramies would swim right into the group of 4 oscars and steal the food from them, and size wise they were about the same, with the oscars being fractionally bigger.

do wish I'd managed to keep those oscars now, but no tank big enough then,


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## KaiserSousay

Please do not get me wrong on this, good idea or bad. I just gave an aswer to the question


> I am worried that the Gouramis are going to do the same to the new fish. Anything I can do to make sure it does not happen.


I kept Big Blue because he is a survivor, weather he fit in with the new tank set up or not.
I also agree that you never can tell what the little gilled guys are gonna do, but would use others experience as a guide.
Pretty interesting thread though :thumb:


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