# Whats wrong with my setup? (water is terrible) HELP ME!



## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

I have a 55 gallon tank that is about 5-7 years old and has ALWAYS had fish in it!

A little less than two years ago I redid the tank with some africans and some upside down cats to keep it clean.about 3-4weeks ago I decided to redo it as only 1 UDC was alive and the tank was half empty (or full) and the filter hasn't been on in about 5 months (I know I'm a terrible person) I filled the tank up with water and started the filter back up,waited a day or two and bought the following
1x jd
1x green terror
1x firemouth
2x RBP

I had a tetra 30-60 gallon filter and recently (1.5-2 weeks) purchased a fluval 305 to add since I knew my friends would overwhelm the filter. The firemouth died (RIP) and I traded the RBP in for two small pink convicts (male and female,which seem to hate each other). The whisper filter has the regular carbon they provide in the filter (changed 3 days ago) and also ammo-card to remove the ammonia. The fluval has new (even though only two weeks old I changed last night) "clearmax" and carbon since I had an ich scare and had dumped medication in the tank. Could these be my problem.

*Summary*

Current stock
2x 1" pink convict
1x2.75" green terror
1x 2.5-2.75" JD
1x 3" upside down cat
2x 2'5-3" bushy nose pleco

PFS (brown) substrate
Some Texas Holey Rock
1 small piece of driftwood for the pleco

Fluval 305 w/ biomax,clearmax,and carbon
tetra whisper 30-60 w/ ammo-carb and carbon
some air bubbles
150w heater

Water parameters are
Temp 80*(lowered heater going for 78*)

Nitrate 60ppm
Nitrite 12.0ppm
Hardress about 150 ppm
Chlorine 0ppm
Alkalinity 120ppm
PH 6.8
Ammonia 0 ppm!!!!!

*HELP[*/size]


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

Ouch 30 views no replys

I made a crushed coral bag to up my PH

Goodnight CF!


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## Louis123 (Jun 13, 2004)

You have nitrite ! and high nitrate.. I think your tank has not cycled before you introduced fish again.

Your filtration is not enough by the way.. I would return the fishes to someone who can keep them at the moment, and restart your whole tank, cycle it with a goldfish or whatever you want and then think about starting africans..


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## TheBanker (Jun 14, 2008)

Sounds like your going through a cycle, i think maybe you added to many fish at one time.


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## Louis123 (Jun 13, 2004)

AND, you should introduce fish when you have

0 Nitrite
0 Amonia
20 or less Nitrate

Your PH seems kind of low, but I don't think that is the problem, let your tank settle and complete the cycle...

It sucks for you but that is life when you don't do your research..


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

Louis123 said:


> You have nitriteYour filtration is not enough by the way.. I


Really? the 305 is for 70g and the whisper is for 60g?

Should I see if my LFS can "barter" them for a few days while I re-cycle?

Should I add some of the nitrite and nitrate remover and such?


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## Louis123 (Jun 13, 2004)

I'm sorry for multi-posting,

But you also changed all your bio media in the fluval... You lost your good bio bacteria that were keeping the cycle active in your tank...

It's definitly an uncycled tank (and the additions of new fish did not help the problem) combined with the new filter bio-media..


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## Louis123 (Jun 13, 2004)

muffinman51432 said:


> Louis123 said:
> 
> 
> > You have nitriteYour filtration is not enough by the way.. I
> ...


Sorry for being all over the place with my posts.

1- Your tank has not completed the cycle, until it has, it will be dangerous to have any fish in there, nitrite is toxic to your fish even in small quantities, nitrate on the other hand can be handled in small quantities.

2-Your filtration is not that bad finally, you just did the wrong things with it (changing the bio-media that was filled with beneficial bacteria) Your filter with carbon doesnt do much, is it good though you are removing your medecine from the tank and polishing the water.

3-Let your filter and new bio-media settle with the cycle, you'll have colonies of good bacteria growing on there, your water will stabilize, I would not really worry about the PH right now, I think you don't have fish that require high ph. Your crushed coral will help (and your substrate will also be colonized by bacteria)

4-Get your fish to the fishstores if you can, tell them you have a leak or something, they will keep the fishes for you if your lucky. Let the tank settle for maybe 2 weeks (you can buy some cycle to help speed up the process) and test your water, once you have 0 nitrite 0 amonia and fairly low nitrate you can go ahead and add your fish gradually into the tank.

EDIT : Remove the ammo-card in your whisper, you want the cycle to run smoothly, having something removing amonia is not good because you need the transformation to occur (amonia to nitrite to nitrate)


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## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

Louis123 said:


> EDIT : Remove the ammo-card in your whisper, you want the cycle to run smoothly, having something removing amonia is not good because you need the transformation to occur (amonia to nitrite to nitrate)


Since there is 0 ammonia and a lot of nitrite, I'd say that the first stage of the cycle is finished. If you can find a place for the fish to live for the time being I'd go ahead and do that. If not, do water changes, and a lot of them. Your nitrAte is a little high (nothing to worry about), but your nitrIte is very high. You need to get the number down so that it doesn't kill your fish.

P.S. sorry no one posted to help you sooner!


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

I never changed to Bio media knowing that it would be bad for the cycle,i just rinsed it quick.

I am going to visit a place next to work that is all about water quality and such and see if he can take them!

Thanks guys

BTW I am doing 30% daily water changes


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

I never changed to Bio media knowing that it would be bad for the cycle,i just rinsed it quick.

I am going to visit a place next to work that is all about water quality and such and see if he can take them!

Thanks guys

BTW I am doing 30% daily water changes


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## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

> I never changed to Bio media knowing that it would be bad for the cycle,i just rinsed it quick.


Did you rinse it in tap water? If your tap water has any chlorine or chloramines it will kill the beneficial bacteria when you rinse with it. It is always suggested that you rinse any bio media with tank water only.


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

edouthirt said:


> > I never changed to Bio media knowing that it would be bad for the cycle,i just rinsed it quick.
> 
> 
> Did you rinse it in tap water? If your tap water has any chlorine or chloramines it will kill the beneficial bacteria when you rinse with it. It is always suggested that you rinse any bio media with tank water only.


Tap water has no chlorine.....Now I know,stupid video said tap water which didnt make sense!


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## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

What video?


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

edouthirt said:


> What video?


The fluval DVD that came w/ the filter!


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## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

Well... it is suggested to rinse all BRAND NEW filter media in tap water, but once your bio-media has established itself, you never want to do that. Only rinse in tank water...

However, if your tap water has no chlorine or chloramines... it should be ok to do that, unless it has something else harmful in it?


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

how do you know your tap water has no chlorine or chloramines?? can you test for that?? or do you have a well?


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## Aquanist (Dec 29, 2007)

Check out your local water treatment plant webpage. There should be pretty detailed report on what and how much of anything is being put to the water.


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

water has 0 chlorine! tested w/ test kit


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

would doing 30 or 50% daily water changes help? I'm having trouble bartering them!


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

muffinman51432 said:


> would doing 30 or 50% daily water changes help? I'm having trouble bartering them!


Still having this problem,all the LFS near me have terrible water quality and the fish look terrible 

My fish eat like they haven't been fed in years and look better than they have ever though!

My update is this w/ water before a 70% water change

ammonia .01-.03 ppm
Nitrate 40 ppm (just did 70% water change
Nitrate 5 ppm

chlorine 0ppm
temp 80


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

Just checked after watr [email protected]!!!

Nitrate 20ppm (maybe a little less)
NitrIte 2 ppm
ammonia 0ppm
ph 7.2~!


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Sounds like you still need to get some media from an established tank.

EDIT --> submitted that before i read your test after the water change. Gettting close to zero nitrite. Still say get some filter media though.


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

GaFishMan1181 said:


> Sounds like you still need to get some media from an established tank.
> 
> EDIT --> submitted that before i read your test after the water change. Gettting close to zero nitrite. Still say get some filter media though.


I am stopping by petsmart tomorrow (trying to stay away from buying random stuff as its right next to work) I will see if they have any,if not the LFS around the corner does as we got along great the first time and the guy really knew his stuff so im sure he'll give me some stuffz!

Also I am thinking about my fluval 305. Should I take the carbon out (3 bags of it) and put in bio-max? for more bio-media?


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## kodyboy (Dec 9, 2007)

If I were you I would do the following:
keep up with 25-30% water changes every few days. 
If the fish look much happier/healthier than before just keep them and keep up with the maintenance. 
I would not play with the filters too much right now, you could disrupt the cycling that you are trying to achieve. 
If you could afford it I would get an aquaclear 110/70 and put in two sponges to supplement your biological filtration and when your readings get better (after a month or so) replace your carbon with some siporax or other biological media. 
after all this keep up your water changes


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

kodyboy said:


> I would not play with the filters too much right now, you could disrupt the cycling that you are trying to achieve.


adding extra filter media from an established tank will not disrupt the cycling. I dont think you refering to what i said but just in case.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

There are a number odd things I'm seeing here with the various readings. High nitrates and high nitrites don't make a lot of sense when the ammonia is 0. If the nitrates are there, then the tank had to be cycled. The fitration should be more than adequate as the fish load is light (the fish are all small). I find a pH reeading of 6.8 with a Total Alkalinity to be incongruous; it should be in the mid 7s. I have to wonder about the test kits accuracy.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

did you read the test results before the water change or just the ones after the water change


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## phillyb (Apr 1, 2009)

So the tank sat for a while with no water in it? Did you clean it out first, then let it sit or did it just sit with water, like half full or something?

I am still very new at this but seems like you may have killed most of the bacteria, and need them to grow more? Are you using the tap water conditioner in the new water?

Good luck!


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## kodyboy (Dec 9, 2007)

nope I was not referring to established media being added 
(which would be a good thing), just brand new medial. 
Ammonia can be zero when nitrate and nitrite are up because the ammonia portion of the cycle is done and now the other portions are kicking in. It goes ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Ammonia and nitrite are reduced by aerobic bacteria, nitrate is reduced to N2 by anaerobic bacteria, which makes it hard to keep their populations high enough to work in our (hopefully) highly oxygenated aquaria. You are quite correct that nitrate and nitrite can only be present if the tank has or is cycling though. 
Can you get your water tested at a LFS to see if your test kits are making sense?


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

kodyboy said:


> nope I was not referring to established media being added
> (which would be a good thing), just brand new medial.
> Ammonia can be zero when nitrate and nitrite are up because the ammonia portion of the cycle is done and now the other portions are kicking in. It goes ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Ammonia and nitrite are reduced by aerobic bacteria, nitrate is reduced to N2 by anaerobic bacteria, which makes it hard to keep their populations high enough to work in our (hopefully) highly oxygenated aquaria. You are quite correct that nitrate and nitrite can only be present if the tank has or is cycling though.
> Can you get your water tested at a LFS to see if your test kits are making sense?


I need too,as one kit I have says 3+PPM the other kit says a little below 2 (by colour on kits) or nitrIte. Taking it tomorrow

I also changed the carbon out for bio-max (2 bags for 1 bag or biomax) and added Prime!


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## kodyboy (Dec 9, 2007)

did you add prime to condition the replacement water?


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## mncherie1 (Mar 27, 2009)

I would stay away from adding any chemicals. I have never had any luck with them. I would say, leave the tank alone till all reads 0, except the nitrates....you may lose some more fish...but if your tank does not cycle properly it will never be right. After all of this perform your water changes and keep nitrates as low as you can by doing water changes. 
Expecting some people to rip my head of for this, but this is my opinion and how I have worked with all my tanks. 
Ultimatley you should have gotton some hardy fish.......but since you aready have the little critters in there it may be your only option. 
And yes, i agree....if you know somebody with a well established tank, get some gravel (keep it wet during transport)


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## mncherie1 (Mar 27, 2009)

I stand corrected......do use some water conditioner :lol:


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## muffinman51432 (Mar 9, 2009)

The fish I have seem to be pretty hardy

What I noticed is the it seems my fluval didn't come with any "biomax" like it stated it did. It came with 3x "pre-filter and 3x carbon. so I ditched two carbon for 2x bio-max,. I also bought bio-balls to use as I plan on making my own sump in the near future!

Time for another 50% water change and it's waiting time!


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