# In- tank refugium



## philka (Jan 14, 2010)

Hey, everybody

This is my first post.  Great site. Will go straight to business.
I was wondering if anybody done that before or have it in the your current set up. I was thinking to a get a in-tank refugium for 75g all cichlid fish tank. Drsfostersmith selling them for around $40 with a pump
I have around 14 cichlids in my tank. My nitrates are kinda high around 35-40ppm. I was planning to keep plants in that in-tank refugium, to eat up my nitrates a little bit. That way i don't need to buy a separate fuge. ( save some money also ). Im running xp4 (with pads, chemi pure and seachem matrix) and penguin 400. 
Anybody has done that before, and if you did which plants were using. May be there is other way to get my nitrates down.

Thanks


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Welcome to the site!

The best way to get nitrates down is regular water changes. Maybe you could set up an automatic water change system.

As you can see with the tank that I linked to, there are many plants that do well with algae eaters like tropheus and mbuna, and can be planted in the tank without the need for a refugium. Anubias should work for sure. Valisneria most likely also. A bit riskier but still having a good chance are Java fern, Echinodorus sp. and Cryptocoryne sp.









_Anubias sp. and Valisneria sp. have been by far the most successful plants in my 125G tropheus setup._

An in-tank refugium would of course eat into your tank space. It can be done, but it's not a popular choice, since most people (and cichlids!) value their tank space.

Best of luck!

Frank


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## philka (Jan 14, 2010)

fmueller, thanks for your reply, automatic water change system looks cool :thumb: 
I do water changes regularly, but I'm still battling nitrates. I was kinda looking for a cheap solutions to fix the problem ( get refugium ), and wasnt planning to get real plants in my main tank. If i decide to go with real plants, would "eco friendly cichlid sand" work as a substrate, because thats what i have right now in the tank. Do i need any other equipment to keep real plants, and how hard its to take care of them?

thanks


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Refugiums are for reefs/marine tanks. They in all honesty serve little purpose in a freshwater tank especially a in-tank one. You would be lighting up the entire tank with very high out put lighting and causing algae blooms if your nitrates are indeed that high. If anything you would be best to build one under the stand or somewhere else. Reef tanks get away with it cause they require that lighting or greater as is and aside from devouring nutrients they help build up a fauna that gets released into the tank as food for inverts.


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## clgkag (Mar 22, 2008)

I have an intank refugium on my tank and it does reduce nitrates pretty significantly. From about 40ppm to 20ppm. Still have to keep up on water changes, but IMO it does improve water quality. The nice thing about it being hang on is I have my normal tank lights on the tank and a seperate ho light on the refugium. I just filled mine with hornwort and put a powerhead on it and it has done the rest. Is it the perfect answer for everyone, probably not, but it is worth a try if you can get one for cheap.

If you do a planted freshwater refugium, it is a totally different concept from salt. Don't let that scare you off.


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## philka (Jan 14, 2010)

thanks, clgkag.... good to know that somebody tried it. So if i understand correctly, you r running separate light on refugium? How do you archive that if in-tank fuge submerged under water in the main tank?

Thanks


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## clgkag (Mar 22, 2008)

my refugium is a hang on so there is about 1.5" that is out of the water. I just set the light on top of that. The whole thing is not submerged.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

philka said:


> thanks, clgkag.... good to know that somebody tried it. So if i understand correctly, you r running separate light on refugium? How do you archive that if in-tank fuge submerged under water in the main tank?
> 
> Thanks


Thats the thing, he has a hang on.

You can get that same result via water changes but if you really must good luck on your endeavor.

I would rather do more water changes then have a in-tank refugium cluttering things up,... IMO.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

I have been running fuges under the display for quite a few years now with varying results. They work great for FW. Anyone who says otherwise is not speaking from experience. You need to give one a few weeks to start working, you will not see results overnight.

The better they work the more maintenance they require. Put ***** tail in there and you will see nitrAtes reduced within two weeks and duckweed works even better. But they make a mess.

I have been using swords and wysterias lately and they might not work as fast but they require very little maintenance and definately reduce the trAtes.

YMMV


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## philka (Jan 14, 2010)

JWerner2 said:


> philka said:
> 
> 
> > thanks, clgkag.... good to know that somebody tried it. So if i understand correctly, you r running separate light on refugium? How do you archive that if in-tank fuge submerged under water in the main tank?
> ...


i agree that in-tank fuge will clutter things up in display tank, but i've been doing water changes with no success in reducing nitrates...........but you right, i thought about it looking weird in the main tank, may be i will go with hang on fuge


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## philka (Jan 14, 2010)

fox said:


> I have been running fuges under the display for quite a few years now with varying results. They work great for FW. Anyone who says otherwise is not speaking from experience. You need to give one a few weeks to start working, you will not see results overnight.
> 
> The better they work the more maintenance they require. Put ***** tail in there and you will see nitrAtes reduced within two weeks and duckweed works even better. But they make a mess.
> 
> ...


fox, will 10g fuge work for 75g all mbuna tank?


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

I just tore down a 65G tank with a 20G tank used as a sump/ refugium below it. The fuge section held 8 gallons. This tank was way overstocked and had readings of 40ppm nitrAtes before the 50% weekly WC's. I took the plants out a week before the tear down and last reading was 40+ppm nitrAtes  after only three days. Would have been well over 80ppm if I had let it go a week for sure.

They work but do not depend on them soly to maintain ideal water parameters.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Most plants really don't care what substrate you use. Things like Valisneria, Cryptocoryne and Echinodorus (Amazon Sword Plants) will grow well in pretty much any type of sand. You can also use plants that don't like to root in the substrate at all, but can be attached to rocks and wood (Anubia and Java Fern).

How high are your nitrates? They should go down for sure if you do water changes - unless there is nitrate in your tap water. You might want to test your tap water for nitrates as well, and report back both values here. Obviously lower is better, but unlike nitrite and ammonia where it the reading should be zero at all times, some nitrate in the water really is no big deal.

Frank


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## aspen (Jun 15, 2004)

i think frank has the practical solution for you, ie, figure out what is going on. water changes are the best way to reduce nitrates, providing there aren't any in your tapwater. do a nitrIte test. you may actually have a cycling problem, due to the fact that if you have nitrItes, a nitrAte kit will read high, in error.

i cannot do a large water change with tapwater, due to a large amount of dissolved gasses harming my fish, so i age my water. i can drain my 90 down to 10 gal and re-fill with the 65 under it. believe me, that is a pretty good way to reduce your nitrates.

rick


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## philka (Jan 14, 2010)

thanks for all suggestions guys......my nitrates around 40ish, everything( ammonia,nitrites) else is good.....i will try to get some low demand plants also, instead getting fuge.....................


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## DaveZ17 (Sep 14, 2009)

Nobody has mentioned what might be causing your high nitrate problem. You may have to feed less or remove some fish. With a nitrate reading that high it will eventually stress your fish out. When you are stocked correctly, feeding correctly, and doing regular maintenance your nitrates should stay low without a refugium and all those big water changes. You said you have 14 fish in your tank. You did'nt say how big they are, which can make a huge difference. It does'nt sound like you're overstocked so maybe cut back on feeding a little and see if that helps. One of the ways to tell if your tank is at its max is if nitrates go above 40-50 ppm. My tanks are at 10 ppm and below with 10-20% weekly water changes. Just my opinion.


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