# Trouble with new brichardi tank... please help!



## beachtan (Sep 25, 2008)

I have a 20L set up and added 4 neolamp brichardi from a species tankful at the lfs. I picked out the biggest male, and 3 other random sized. That was Saturday afternoon. it's now Sunday evening and the large one took over the best cave. He allows one other to swim around him (they nip at each other but not much) then the other two look half dead and are bobbing up and down at the surface in the far corner poking their mouths out of the water.(straight up & down-head up, tail down) I pushed them down and added some plants for coverage in that corner and now one is just resting motionless on the bottom. the smaller mean one keeps nudging him but he wont even move.

So, would you guess that the two left are the pair? I thought since they were fine in the store tank together that it might take a while before they'd pair up - and arent they harem breeders??

Do I maybe not have enought hiding places? or is this "pairing" up a good thing??


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

sounds like their pairing up. They are not harem breeders and it could be both good or bad depending on the situation. Its good that their pairing(hopefully) its bad that the other 2 are dying


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Brichardi are not harem breeders but form male:female pairs. They are notorious for killing everything in the tank once they spawn, including other Brichardi. Remove the extra fish and return them to the LFS. Sounds like the one is all but gone...maybe the remaining one is healthy enough to go back?


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Normal and expected. Don't be surprised if you only have 2 fish left in the morning. :roll:


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## Neolamprologus Marco (Jan 14, 2008)

Sorry about the two.Look on the bright side though,soon you'll have dozens.


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## beachtan (Sep 25, 2008)

Well, the two bullied fish are a little grayish and VERY listless. I put them in a breeder net this morning - theres no way the lfs will want them back they way they look now! I dont know if they'll make it... I have a cycling 30-gal that I could "nurse them back to health" in maybe...

But I just wanna clarify, is there any possibility the two left are males?? they are not fighting at all. maybe a little nip here and there but thats it. I have 2 tiny pleco's in there - think the brichardi eggs will be ok if they breed?

Whats the best thing for them to spawn in/on in your opinion guys? Thanks for your help! I just dont wanna make a mistake with these!! :?


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

Excuse me, Neolamprologus brichardi is NOT a harem spawner!!! They are the archetype of the Tanganyika harem spawner BUT that doesn't mean that a pair, in too small of a tank, won't kill all of the other fish.
Thanks,
Daniel


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## beachtan (Sep 25, 2008)

Daniel, yeah, DJ already said they breed in pairs earlier in the post. I'm just a bit overwhelmed becuz I've read so much on so many different fish that I'm getting things mixed up a bit.

Did you read my latest post on this? because I have different questions in it than what you responded to... :-?


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

beachtan said:


> But I just wanna clarify, is there any possibility the two left are males?? they are not fighting at all. maybe a little nip here and there but thats it. I have 2 tiny pleco's in there - think the brichardi eggs will be ok if they breed?
> Whats the best thing for them to spawn in/on in your opinion guys? Thanks for your help! I just dont wanna make a mistake with these!! :?


It is possible that the two left are both males, or both females... but it's not the most likely. Wait and see if they breed, or if one kills the other which could happen if the other two targets are taken care of.

Well, I would guess that the plecos will be killed. If they actually live, they could steal some eggs... but frankly that won't be too much of a problem. Once you breed these guys, the problem will be what to do with them all. :wink:

My brichs spawned in a large conch shell... but they'll breed just about anywhere.


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

Sorry, I was so shocked by the statement that N. brichardi weren't harem spawners, that I didn't answer your question. While they are harem spawners your tank is too small for more then a pair (and it sounds like a pair is developing in your tank), and while this answer seems to be contrary, it's not. We are creating completely artificial environment for our fish, and that in turn changes their behavior, one of the things that makes cichlids so fascinating, is how they adapt to different environments.
If you haven't done so yet, get those other fish out of your tank, before they are killed!
Good luck with your N. brichardis, they are great fish, and keep us informed on their progress.
Thanks,
Daniel


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Daniel.
Which is it buddy? are they or are they not a harem spawner?
You said they were in your 1st. post, and that they are not in your 2nd. post.


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

They are both! :wink: In small tanks I have found they prefer breeding as one pair and killing off everyone else (I believe that the dominate female does most of the killing), in larger tanks the dominate males will breed with extra females, if there is enough room, I have had multiple harems with group defense in protecting fry. This once took place in a 125, where groups of N. brichardis drove off Frontosas trying to snack on their fry. This went on for over a year until I move the N. brichardis, because the Fronts stop breeding. :lol: 
Thanks,
Daniel


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## Eriefish (Nov 4, 2008)

The Female Brichardi are the ones who are the real aggressors out of the pair and will kill rival females if not given enough room males usually just chase off other males. However I have now successfully 2 breeding pairs in a 55 gallon tank. Their fry doesnt last long though because of the 2 2.5 inch Calvus in the tank. Whoever says Calvus are good hunters arent really paying attention. All the fish in the tank know not to bother with the armored scaled Calvus and they virtually wonder where they please even into a nest of Brichardi Babys.


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## Neolamprologus Marco (Jan 14, 2008)

Whats the foot print of that 55? I have a 55 tall that is 36x18 with 1 mated pair and about 15 fry 1 inch and less. I wonder if another pair will form and survive.


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## John7 (Jul 17, 2003)

Eriefish said:


> All the fish in the tank know not to bother with the armored scaled Calvus and they virtually wander where they please even into a nest of Brichardi Babys.


*Don't mean to butt in on this, but I have read that the Calvus will actually bend their bodies when attacked, so their scales stand on end and cut the lips of the attacking fish. 
John*


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

John7 said:


> Eriefish said:
> 
> 
> > All the fish in the tank know not to bother with the armored scaled Calvus and they virtually wander where they please even into a nest of Brichardi Babys.
> ...


It's not that the scales stand on end and cut the lips of the attacking fish, it's that the scale on both the calvus and compressiceps are thicker on their sides, so that they present their side to the attacking fish, where they have the most protection.
Darn John, wish you hadn't reminded me of the OCA'a "Ganza", it will be the first one I've missed in eight years!  
Thanks,
Daniel


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