# Advice:



## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

So I'm about 2 weeks in on my fishless cycle. Over the past 4 days I've been adding 3ppm ammonia to my tank daily because it's being processed in 24 hours. That's a good thing.

Where I'm confused is my nitrItes are very high, a dark purple, probably 7ppm or so (estimating). Do I skip an ammonia dose for day? Or do I change some of the water? I haven't tested for nitrAtes yet since the nitrites have been astronomically high?

Also completely unrelated to this tank, if I wanted to start a cycle over, would it be as simple as draining the water, cleaning the filter media with tap water and restarting the dosing? The reason I ask is, my 5 gallon betta tank has been cycling for 5 weeks now, I had nitrites for a while, I have about 80ppm in nitrates, but the ammonia is not being processed.

Last nights reading on the 5gallon was: 3ppm ammonia, 0 nitrites, 80 nitrates.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

hey I answered your question for 5g on your other post viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26345

No dont stop dosing ammonia the bio bacteria needs it thats what they feed on, you stop dosing ammonia your bacteria will die!! About the third week your Nitrite bacteria will kick in and should drop your levels to zero by the 4 week mark. If you are concerned nitrite is too high you can do a 50 percent water change on your 75g to bring the levels back down to testable levels.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

You can perform small, (<30%) daily partial water changes if your nitrite levels are too high. As with ammonia, too much nitrite can inhibit the cycling process.
For more info, check the Fishless Cycling article here.


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## B.Roberson (Nov 6, 2011)

when i cycled my 90,i was told wait till amm & nitrite BOTH hit 0 before redosing. And yes very high nitrite could slow it.small wc is ok.per GTZ . and the bacteria will not die, it will be dormant until fed. so maybe more experts can chime in. but thats my 2 pennies worth...


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

GTZ said:


> You can perform small, (<30%) daily partial water changes if your nitrite levels are too high. As with ammonia, too much nitrite can inhibit the cycling process.
> For more info, check the Fishless Cycling article here.


Why do small water changes in a fishless aquarium? Seems like a waste of time to me.



B.Roberson said:


> when i cycled my 90,i was told wait till amm & nitrite BOTH hit 0 before redosing. And yes very high nitrite could slow it.small wc is ok.per GTZ . and the bacteria will not die, it will be dormant until fed. so maybe more experts can chime in. but thats my 2 pennies worth...


I thought the point of the fishless cycle was to grow a live biological colony and not a half starved dormant one. Even even your dormant theory is true why would you want to starve something you are trying to grow sounds counterintuitive to me.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

walzon1 said:


> GTZ said:
> 
> 
> > You can perform small, (<30%) daily partial water changes if your nitrite levels are too high. As with ammonia, too much nitrite can inhibit the cycling process.
> ...


As I said, and as is discussed in the article, nitrite levels that reach high levels can inhibit the cycling process, prolonging it. The water changes reduce the levels enabling the process to progress at a normal pace. If nitrite levels are remaining at the same levels they were dosed at, there's no need to dose daily. Wait for the levels to drop before dosing again as discussed in the article.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks GTZ.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to do water changes as it appears that the python water changer I got doesn't fit my spicket. The adapter is too big for my spicket.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

did the water change (had to use the powder room sink...not optimal but took some finagaling to keep the sink from overflowing). Roughly 30%. Hopefully that drops the nitrites down some.

Now, do I still need to dose daily at 3ppm if my ammonia test is at 0?


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## B.Roberson (Nov 6, 2011)

I really think you need to wait till nitrite drops also to 0


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

GTZ said:


> walzon1 said:
> 
> 
> > GTZ said:
> ...


I disagree, As per the article you keep talking about it never suggests to stop dosing. As per the article he doses every 48 hours throughout the entire process never does it say to stop dosing. Also I understand about high Nitrite levels which is why I suggested a water change to bring them down before you even posted, ill just leave it at that.


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## B.Roberson (Nov 6, 2011)

here is what is said in that article..

-Now that you have built up enough bacteria to convert ammonia within 24 hours, you can stop testing for ammonia and begin testing for nitrite. The nitrite drop can take up to 2-3 times as long as the ammonia drop. This length of this phase can lead some to think that the cycle is not progressing. However, it is progressing, so be patient. You will probably get a nitrite reading that is very high, even off the chart. That is normal. In order to ensure that things speed along just as quickly as possible, you can perform partial water changes to keep the byproducts of nitrification down because just like excessive ammonia levels they will inhibit the nitrifying bacteria.5 You can perform these water changes daily. However, I would suggest not changing too much water at one time. Try 30% or so daily. (See why in 'Cautions, tips and tricks' below.)

so think about it. If your ammonia drops in 24 hrs,but your nitrites have not, and you redose ,then your nitrites are going to get higher and higher. .
you need to wait till both nitrite and amm drops, then redose. 
if amm drops in 24 , still wait till nitrite drops before redosing. mine took 6 weeks. first amm drop in about a week and a half, but nitrite took twice as long each dose. so when i redosed for instance my amm dropped in 24, but my nitrite didnt until day 4. then i redosed. amm gone in 24 but nitrite stayed till day 4. and so on untill BOTH dropped in 24. Otherwise your nitrite will be so very high it will take forver for it to drop.

does that make sense??


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

No it doesnt. The article is you just quoted says Do 30% water changes daily to keep nitrite down. What you are suggesting does not involve doing water changes but just to stop dosing ammonia. These Are Two DIFFERENT things does this make sense? By continueing to dose your are feeding your bio filter and by doing water changes you're keeping the Nitrite in check. Says right in your post "In order to ensure that things speed along just as quickly as possible, you can perform partial water changes to keep the byproducts of nitrification down"<----byproduct of nitrification are nitrites and nitrates. Wow, so you see you can do both at the same time, amazing!


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## notchback65 (Apr 3, 2013)

It's been a few months,I don't believe I ever stopped dosing...
Just a lot of small water changes and kept with the dosing regiment.
My nitrites where "Barney Purple" forever and then one day they started to drop dramatically.


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## B.Roberson (Nov 6, 2011)

Unread postby walzon1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:54 pm

No it doesnt.I understand .. hey im with you.. i have only done 1 fishless cycle with amm, this is my story of what happened and what i was told. but documented it.. I didnt mention that I did do pwc every few (2-3) days to keep nitrite to a level that I ,(me) could read. Other than deep purple... 
But realize that the amount of amm your adding is far more than your fish would ever produce, so your dosing to stock your tank fully at the get go. 
Yes it will do both at the same time, but how fast is up to each individual tank. 1 may take 2-3 weeks for a fishless cycle ,and the exact tank take 6 weeks.. there is no guarantee. . all i am saying is I have been told by members here to wait until Both amm and nitrite hit zero to redose. No matter what that article says,, thats what I did.
But hey as long as its working,,,,,,, dont change it Hey?? i wouldnt. like i said every tank is different.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

B.Roberson said:


> Unread postby walzon1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:54 pm
> 
> No it doesnt.I understand .. hey im with you.. i have only done 1 fishless cycle with amm, this is my story of what happened and what i was told. but documented it.. I didnt mention that I did do pwc every few (2-3) days to keep nitrite to a level that I ,(me) could read. Other than deep purple...
> But realize that the amount of amm your adding is far more than your fish would ever produce, so your dosing to stock your tank fully at the get go.
> ...


point taken


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

so I should stop dosing until the nitrites go down?

If I do that, won't the bacteria die off?


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## Kalost (Feb 27, 2013)

it doesnt die off taht quick, do the 30% water changes daily and dose it every second day and you will be fine.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I would do a water change until you get a readable amount of nitrite. Then dose the ammonia. In 24 hours check your levels. If ammonia has been converted to 0 ppm, but nitrite is again unreadable, do another water change to bring down the nitrite. Rinse and repeat. You will be removing nitrite, a source of food for bacteria, but also not allowing the cycle to stall/slow down.

Or you could wait until nitrite has reached 0, as suggested above.

As long as your tank is aerated/filters running, your bacteria will not die off. The bacteria that feeds on ammonia will not be affected. Lying dormant. It was explained by a former site sponsor, Dr. Tim. You can search around for his posts.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> I would do a water change until you get a readable amount of nitrite. Then dose the ammonia. In 24 hours check your levels. If ammonia has been converted to 0 ppm, but nitrite is again unreadable, do another water change to bring down the nitrite. Rinse and repeat. You will be removing nitrite, a source of food for bacteria, but also not allowing the cycle to stall/slow down.
> 
> Or you could wait until nitrite has reached 0, as suggested above.
> 
> As long as your tank is aerated/filters running, your bacteria will not die off. The bacteria that feeds on ammonia will not be affected. Lying dormant. It was explained by a former site sponsor, Dr. Tim. You can search around for his posts.


checked this morning and nitrites were 0. redosed to 2.5ppm ammonia.


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## B.Roberson (Nov 6, 2011)

:thumb: awsome ! pretty soon you will have :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sweet!


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