# The incredible growing then shrinking tank - 125 stocking



## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

The saga continues...

I originally planned a 75 gallon, but my wife wanted a 6 foot tank so then I wanted a 180. But unfortunately the price difference between a 125 and a 180 is $482 so.... yep, 125 for me.

I've ordered the filter (FX5), powerheads for the UGJ,heater and all that stuff. The stand is built and I'll finish painting it over the next two days (primed it yesterday).

So now it's time to start thinking more seriously about stocking.

I definitely want calvus, shellies (I have multies I can put in, but also like Brevis and occies) and cyps are pretty much a given to make use of the top part of the tank I suppose. I want the calvus to be the biggest fish at maturity.

I know I had another thread about this, but it was kind of scattered about the technical stuff, plus it was a stocking list for a bigger tank. So I'd appreciate recommendations for a shellie, and 4th and possibly 5th species if possible. I should have a pretty wide variety of Tangs available to me at the ACA convention in July so species that aren't really widely available so don't limit by what's commonly available.

Thanks.


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## starplayer (May 3, 2011)

Norm, what dimensions do the tank have.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Standard 6ft 125, right?

Here's my suggestion:

8 Altolamps (1 collection point)
15-25 Cyprichromis (any size/location, micros would be awesome)
6 L. multifaciatus
6 L. Brevis (they'll get along with multies in that tank size while still leaving room for other fish)
10 Paracyprichromis
8 Xenos
Or, replace paracyps and xenos with a group of Enantiopus.

You might have some neat choices at ACA-  I'd be looking for a group of Callochromis or Ectodus or Triglachromis. It's harder to get information on these species, but a good google search will help. They may be a bit more challenging to keep, so if one of them catches your eye make sure you can accomodate them. The good news is that Altos are good neighbors to most fish, and the choice of something a bit more rare should still work out for you.


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## shon982 (Jun 18, 2010)

Completely agree with Triscuit there 

Except, you can keep two xeno types together as long as they're not the same breeding strategy type
Biparental and harem breeders

So stick with everything he said, but if you want two xeno types
replace the paracyps and brevis (reduce amount of fish and increase floor space available)
and get the two xeno groups

or stick with one xeno group and also as he suggested the callochromis or ectodus
but i'd definitely pass on the trigs, unless you want all your fish eaten!
they will attack and eat other fish


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## cracks (Jan 5, 2010)

I don't think xenos and callochromis will not work together, unfortunately. I got my callochromis in a 4ft tank and honestly it's pushing it. In a perfect world it's really supposed to be 1 male and 4-5 females for a 6th tank, from what I've read. Sure maybe some species are a little more calm but from what I've heard & read they are terrors. but I could be wrong too


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## shon982 (Jun 18, 2010)

*** got 1 male and 4 females callochromis pleurospilus in a 3x18 tank and they're fine
And next step is to add xeno flavipinnis red royal
Then move the lot to a 6x18x18 tank with 2m and 8F pleurospilus, plus the red royals and maybe some leptos

But you're definitely right, macrops on the other hand are exactly how you described
I've seen a tank with a few males and maybe 15 females at LFS and one male had all the females scared in the corner


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Perhaps I should clarify- my oddities listed below the stock list would require substative revisions of said stock list. I have not kept Callos- or ectodus or trigs, for that matter- that's why I would be looking for them at the convention. 

Not sure I see the point of 2 xeno groups... I would tend towards filling other niches with other types of cichlid rather than overlapping with fish from the same genus. :fish:


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## shon982 (Jun 18, 2010)

Rock dwelling and sand sifter xenos


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

Thanks for the input! And yes, it's a standard 125; 72"x18x20".

Triscuit, with the stocking list you provide there wouldn't be a need for a whole lot of rocks would there? A good pile for the altos and then maybe just some sight breaks and accent pieces, two shell beds obviously separated and a lot of open sand right?

Don't the cyps need some sort of rock structure up high to be happy? Or will some flat pieces of slate vertically along the back suffice for them? What about the paracyps?

I really have no experience at all with xenos. I don't think I've ever actually seen them in person. But I would definitely like this tank to have some stuff I've never had before so I like the idea. The enant. kilesa are a very attractive option too though they get a little bigger than what I had planned on for this tank.

I also really like the callochromis species. What would have to change to allow them?

Really though I would want a pretty fair chance of the species living together with a minimum of carnage so maybe the original list would be the way to go. I'd even scratch the brevis to make more bottom space if that would help.


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## cracks (Jan 5, 2010)

in my tank i have 6 Callochromis melanostigma, 5 paracyp, 5 juli marilieri, and 16 cyp utinita. its way over stocked but always entertaining to watch. the cyps are breeding, the callo male made a pit about 6in wide in the center of the tank. the julies dont seem interested in pairing up and the paracyps all hang in a corner cave. the male callo chases everything in the tank but has never even nipped a fin, just causes havoc. you could go with something like my stock list but add more cyps!


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

I think I'll skip the callo, it seems disruptive by your description. I'm aiming for as much natural behavior out of each species as possible, which will definitely limit my choices.

Thanks!


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

The original list should be active, entertaining and with minimal carnage. opcorn:

To reiterate: 


> 8 Altolamps (1 collection point)
> 15-25 Cyprichromis (any size/location, micros would be awesome)
> 6 L. multifaciatus
> 6 L. Brevis (they'll get along with multies in that tank size while still leaving room for other fish)
> ...





> Don't the cyps need some sort of rock structure up high to be happy? Or will some flat pieces of slate vertically along the back suffice for them? What about the paracyps?


Yes- but in my experience, cyps who do well have a place to sleep. And with this stocking list there should be plenty of footprint left for them. The paracyps will like rocks for breeding, and for holding females to hide. What I suggest for the above list is this- In one back corner, create a tall structure with caves suitable for the altos. From that starting point, put in 4-5 more structures at least 8-10 inches apart scattered across the tank with open sand in between. These structures could be tall, or a mix of tall and short- but should have space within them for scared/harassed fish to hide. Make sure all rocks aren't too sharp (xenos are known to scratch their eyes when spooked) and that they won't collapse if bumped.

I'd put the multifaciatus shells (5+ shells for every adult) in a pile opposite the calvus structure. Stacked shells allow more multi fry to survive, and protect brooding females from some predators. Having them near the front makes for better viewing of the little buggers. Brevis will be fine in the tank, or, you can replace brevis with caudopunks, gobies or a small julidochromis species.


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## mokujin22 (Jan 19, 2010)

triscuit said:


> Standard 6ft 125, right?
> 
> Here's my suggestion:
> 
> ...


A mix like that would make me consider switching over one of my 6' Malawi tanks.... That stocking would be a lot of fun to watch.


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## Bodenhimer (May 1, 2011)

these little buggers seem very cool with big ole eyes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeEYsdWE ... detailpage

these are the callos im ordering the male seems agro they must have babies, But he is in community tank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utQ3pxwH ... detailpage

i love these rock dwellers. They seem to stick to the rocks for the most part. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... qpxNL6wklI

these seem like they would be good options I dont think they get as big as some xenos http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... V6aHnW9aLI

I would try these a well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCpgvjuV ... detailpage


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

Triscuit, thanks again for the help. I've got a preliminary sketch of a rockwork layout which helped me lay out my UGJ system as well.

I'm undecided on the brevis and may substitute caudopunks or gobies. Though aren't gobies herbivores? I like to feed brine shrimp (more for me than the fish, I know this and am OK with it). I really like gobies *and* caudopunks so I'll probably do the substitution. And if diet will be an issue with the gobies I'll go with the punks. My wife likes them anyway.

Bod- thanks for the links, cool fish indeed. :0)


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Are gobies herbivores? Well, sort of.










They have longer digestive tracts, but they will never pass up on eating stupid fry. I have yet to hear of gobies contracting bloat but that doesn't mean I would feed them brine shrimp. Gobies are pigs- always hungry and willing to stuff their buccal cavity with as much food as they can. Luckily, they are clumsy swimmers, so most fry can escape and other fish can outmaneuver them during a feeding frenzy.

I think brine shrimp are messy and fairly low in nutrition... if you really like the gobies (way cooler than 'punks) think about switching to mysis shrimp or krill instead of the brine shrimp snacks. In any case, feed sparingly when you have gobies. My favorite strategy is to feed twice, about 5 minutes apart- it keeps the gobies from stuffing themselves quite so easily.


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

That's so cool. I hadn't even considered gobies due to the diet difference but if it's doable that's what I want. I actually don't have any brine shrimp right now but do have both mysis and krill so that's really convenient. Hehehe.


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

Per earlier in the thread, here's what I'm locked into as far as stock goes:

8 Altolamps (1 collection point)
15-25 Cyprichromis (any size/location, micros would be awesome)
6 L. multifaciatus 
? Gobies

Given that the rocks I wound up getting were bigger than I had planned I've got two good sized stacks and enough room I believe in the center for another small one based around the one that's in there now.

Here's the first attempt at aquascaping:









I decided that since my rocks came from the same place but were segregated between grey and brown rocks I'd keep them segregated in the tank too. They would have looked funny all mix & matched. Kinda wish I'd have gotten one kind or the other, but variety is the spice of life.

And the 2nd after a tweak:









Still not happy with the right side.

So with the above stock list is the 'scape sufficient? With the above stock list the gobies and the calvus should use the rocks right? With three piles could I add another rock dweller? Or in lieu of that could I add xenos back to the mix if I kept the middle wide open? Oh, and how many gobies should I start with?

Also added ammonia and will test tonight to figure out if I added enough. When it's at 3ppm it'll be time to tear into my other tanks to get some seed material. I've got 23 days to get this thing cycled and ready.

Oh and BTW, 3 weeks from today we leave for the ACA in DC! Woohoo! Fish Nirvana here we come!


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## JAfishman (Jun 24, 2011)

if you are still considering the multis the caudopunks might harass them. they give my occies a run for their money and the multies are mellower then the occies are.


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

Yea, I'm leaving the punks out. I'll have them in another tank some time down the line. they seem pretty cool.


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## starplayer (May 3, 2011)

I find aquascaping really tough. Some people have a gift and get it perfect from the off. I think part of the reason you are not happy with the right side is due to the colour diference. Also it looks as if the right side pile has been deliberatley built that way, whereas the left looks more natural. Your cyps will love that tank btw. As for caudopunks!!! they are a great fish for a tang community. They are one of the most active and roam around tying everything together so to speak. I would definitely add them to your mix. If you are concerned about the shellies, let them establish themselves first then add the punks. It must be getting excitining now. New stock always gets you buzzing.

All the best.


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

Somehow when I was gathering the rocks I had it in my head that since the rocks came out of the same place they'd be OK in the tank together. I know they came out of the ground side by side because a couple of the ones I grabbed have some of each color in the same rock. I'm thinking it'll look better once some algae grows on them.

I'm getting definite mixed reviews on the punks. Some say they're good in a community, some say they harass their other fish.

The multies are the only fish I currently have that will go in this tank so if I can get the cycle started in time they can go in first and get established a little before the rest go in.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My caudopunctatus did not harass my brevis in a 72" tank, FWIW.


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## zade (May 26, 2011)

As for aquascaping why not mix the two piles up, blend the rocks if need be? Just a suggestion, that or keep tampering with it til you finally make that tweek that feels just right.


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## TorontoRaptorsFan (May 20, 2005)

I think the tank would look better with just one type of rock with the same color.

I'm not a fan of the green wall. It takes away from all the hard work you're putting into your tank.


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

DJR, thanks for the input. I really do like the punks, I might put them on the maybe list and see what happens at the convention.

LOL, I'm not painting the wall to make the tank look better. Besides, once the room is dark and the tank is lit up you won't be able to see the wall anyway.

I'm keeping the rocks segregated. I'm going with the two piles though I tweaked the right one to make it look more natural. I'm pleased with it, but nothing's to say I won't change it again. For now the middle section is open because the only rocks I have small enough not to take up too much room are rounded river rocks that don't match the others at all. I'll probably find some smaller stuff to go there before the fish go in. It's harder than you would think to make things look like they were just dumped. LOL

I'm rinsing the sand now. One 50lb bag of pfs did a surprising amount. I don't think I'm going to use all 200lbs. I bought. 2nd bag going in as soon as I rest my back a little.


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

After almost a month of banging around ideas for my new 125 I've decided to go almost completely with the list that Triscuit proposed in the 3rd post of this thread. The only deviation is the caudopunks in place of the brevis she posted later on. :thumb: Funny how that worked out eh?

I got my alto compressiceps and xeno. ochragenys at the ACA last weekend. They're in the tank along with my multies that I had already. Now I'm planning on ordering the remainder of my fish from one of the Site sponsors in the next week or so.

The list looks like this:

15-20 cyp. leptosoma
10 alto. Comps 
8 xeno. ochragenys
7 multies
6 caudos (or a nl. rockdweller not likely to destroy my multies)
10 paracyp. nigripinnis (if I were to cut anything it would likely be these)

I have two questions:

1) other than julies is there another rock dweller that might work out better than the caudopunks and not suck the multies out of their shells? and 2) Is there any way a single Eretmodus sp. ''Cyanostictus North'' Kigoma ''Red'' would work? Per Triscuit's first post a group of xenos. or gobies was an either/or proposition, but if a single might work I'd like to have one.

Thanks in advance.
Norm


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## starplayer (May 3, 2011)

Glad to see it coming together Norm. Other than small juli's I can't really think of another rockdweller more suitable than caudopunks. If you had a more robust shellie then there may be more options, but even then what other rockdwellers are there. Brichardi complex can dominate if they breed. Leleupi can predate a lot of shellies, trets are nasty, tetracanthus will bully your xenia probably. You are then left with sexfaciatus and cylindricus who can be nasty fish. This only leaves beuscheri but they will dominate multis. If you want another rockdweller then for me the punks would be the best option. You could just let your stock grow into the tank. With 10 altos you may get more than one pair or see some interesting interactions with the group. Your paracyps need space also. Good luck norm. Keep the pics coming.


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

Thanks for the input. I'm still not sold on the paracyps. They're very pretty though and I'm sure my wife would love them. They're expensive too.

I had come to the same conclusion about the caudos. I was just wondering if there was a species I'd overlooked. It's ok though, I think I'll really like the caudos.

Anyway, here's a couple pics of the tank. The first one is a whole tank shot, but the rounded river rocks on the left have been removed now.










Here's one of the shell bed. There's close to 150 shells in there.









Here's one I modified a bit with an iPad app. It's one of the xenos. I wasn't totally sure about these guys, but the Tang display tank at the ACA had kilesa which are similar so when these xenos were for sale I had to have them. so far I love watching the way the get around and they're a hoot at feeding time. Very good eaters.









And finally here's one from the right end of the tank showing the shells, multies and a few of the comps. It's surprising how many of the comps seem set on living with the multies. I've seen some of the multies run off the little comps, but they go right back.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Man, tanks like these always tempt me into setting up another tang tank :lol:


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

After some reading and some input from here and a buddy of mine I think I'm going to keep the caudos and dump the paracyps. I wasn't wild about the paracyps anyway, but they're so pretty I thought my wife would like them. But I really think it'd be better to get a larger group of cyps.

I still have the question about a single gobie though. Any thoughts on that?


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## starplayer (May 3, 2011)

Just to clarify Norm for your 6 ft tank
Quote-
The list looks like this:

15-20 cyp. leptosoma
10 alto. Comps
8 xeno. ochragenys
7 multies
6 caudos (or a nl. rockdweller not likely to destroy my multies)
10 paracyp. nigripinnis (if I were to cut anything it would likely be these)

You want to lose the paracyps and add a goby?

Gobies just tend to do what they want. They'll wander around the tank and usually take no notice of territorial boundaries. They are fun though and are on my list when my new tank eventually gets delivered. They like surge areas in the lake so will probably prefer the rocks near your filter outlet. When my new tank is delivered I will build some rocks near filter outlet and attatch a spraybar. Your mix of species looks complimentary, though long term the numbers suggested (especially rockdwellers) may be a little high in my opinion. Cichlids are territorial and need their own space.

PS. Definitely good idea keeping the wife on board :thumb:


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

Thanks for the input. I have a spraybar going all the way across the back of the tank so I think I can build the rocks up closer to the top on one side and it should be OK then for a gobie. Cool! I had also planned on adding some flatt-ish slate up against the glass in the back for the cyps. I'm really trying to make all the species comfortable. 

And yea, I know the numbers are a little high. My plan is to move some, particularly the altos into a 75 gallon that'll go below the 125. I designed the stand so there wold be room for it, just have to get it and set it up. I don't think it'll be needed for a while though.


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