# BRs and Angel



## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

Just a couple photos of my BR pair and one of my 3 Blue Lace Angels. Sorry about photo quality, $%#@ camera.. Ok, its the photographer...  :lol

Bolivian Pair


Bolivian Male


Bolivian Female


Blue Lace Angel


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## PaulineMi (Apr 3, 2008)

Very, very nice! The quality of the pictures of your tank and your fish are just fine.


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## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

Thanks...  ! Its just a little frustrating when photos don't do justice to the colors of the fish. Figuring exposure, white balance, etc is a challenge for me. But I must say Im pleased at how they are growing ...


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## jsmeesterr (Nov 28, 2011)

Your rams are beautiful and that angel! Wow!


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## ChadRamsey (Mar 12, 2010)

beautiful fish.

could you post a full tank shot plz


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Pair yes. But this is your female buddy. Trust me. Watch the next time they breed. Your 'male' lays eggs 

It's a Twilight Zone fish. Females are dominant. Larger, prettier, and can be kept with a small harem of males in a large tank. Trust me. That's your female. Nice one too.

'but the 'female' has it's breeding tube out'

nope. Trust me. It's freakishly bizarre, but this photo is the female. They are sexually an enigma..
Watch it lay eggs next time :thumb:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=237561

Look at my male and female here. Your male and female are textbook dimorphic. Textbook.

I thought what you did when I began with this species years back, then I saw eggs come from the 'male' and went "oooooooooh" :fish:








Your female is in breeding dress here and stunning. Fatten her up on mysis she's ready to go. She will initiate. Again, Bizarro. Your male is ready to mate with her if she initiates by the look of his breeding tube. He also looks quite happy to have such an attractive girlfriend. I don't want to sound stuck up. I know this fish and I've never called it wrong before. I know how snooty that sounds. That's your female. They need fatty foods and a relatively flat group of 'round' stones and bam you'll have eggs if you haven't already.

PS if you want to see funny lifting and looking under for crustacean behavior add an almond leaf (dry) or two to the bottom.

Peace and love

:thumb:


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

Aquariam, YOU are the one with an unusual pair. Normally the male is larger, has longer filaments on the fins, and more color. Also, if you look at the female in TeteRouge's photos, you can see *her *breeding tube down. Male breeding tube is much smaller and pointed. I've had a couple pairs, I have photos of them spawning, and my female actually laying eggs. I've also seen many other people's photos of the species breeding, including the original articles in TFH magazine.

TeteRouge, you do have a very nice pair, and I hope they spawn for you soon.


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## ramgal (Dec 9, 2011)

OMG god sexing confusing I was also told the males have a pure black spot and the females have a black spot with blue specks in it and a rosy belly? Also can I ask a question? I was told rams don't like bright light and to keep the tank dim, my tank has 2 T5 lights and looks very pretty when they are on but was told not to put them on because they don't like it but in your photo they on or was that just for the photo?


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## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

jsmeesterr said:


> Your rams are beautiful and that angel! Wow!


 Thanks! I'm trying to get a photo of all 3 angels. but they are so hyper its always a blur..



ChadRamsey said:


> beautiful fish. could you post a full tank shot plz


 Thanks! I'll try to get one I'm happy with up soon..



aquariam said:


> Pair yes.... Your female is in breeding dress here and stunning. Fatten her up on mysis she's ready to go....He also looks quite happy to have such an attractive girlfriend. They need fatty foods and a relatively flat group of 'round' stones and bam you'll have eggs if you haven't already.....PS if you want to see funny lifting and looking under for crustacean behavior add an almond leaf (dry) or two to the bottom. Peace and love :thumb:


Thanks for the compliment and sharing information! I'd love to see spawning, but I'm afraid the eggs/**** chances are slim right now  . The Angels are growing out with them, and there are 5 cories sharing the tank (sigh). They are all thriving right now, but I'll have to make some decisions soon. Lack of space/money means another tank is a challenge..



Chromedome52 said:


> .....Normally the male is larger, has longer filaments on the fins, and more color. Also, if you look at the female in TeteRouge's photos, you can see her breeding tube down. TeteRouge, you do have a very nice pair, and I hope they spawn for you soon.


 Thanks! Ok, now I'm confused  but it makes sense, and follows what I was told at the LFS. Just goes to show how challenging sexing is. Anyway, yesterday that breeding tube was yellow and larger but today its retracted back to what you see in the photo. The one with the filaments is definitely more aggressive...



ramgal said:


> ...females have a black spot with blue specks in it and a rosy belly?.... I was told rams don't like bright light and to keep the tank dim....in your photo they on or was that just for the photo?


 _Both_ of mine are rosy _and_ yellow on the bellies :lol: The tank is heavily planted with plenty of hiding/shady spots. I have 2 power-glo 20 watts on about 9 hrs a day, and during that time I have a 65 watt 50/50 smartpaq on for about 4 hrs to help plants. I know the dual daylights are better for that, but hate the way they make the tank look. I took the photo with both on. I wish I could get a photo with just the powerglos, as the 50/50 washes colors out a bit


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## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

As requested, full tank shot and more of the Blue Lace Angels....Sorry about blurring and reflections. One day I'll get photos right 


29 gal 170003


Angel170009


Angel170008

and the 3 together

Angel170011


Angel170006


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Very, very very good. Those are very happy plants.

I like how much anubias you used as it is my favorite.

Those rams are great too. Hope you see a spawn soon. Usually seem to do it early am when it's dim.

I think it's my screen but those black angels barely show up. Look nice from what I can see opcorn: .. squinting. 

_I don't want to mess with your scape but some granite, smooth rounded along the front edge of the scape would be good spawn sites for the rams if you wanted to see and could blend in well.
_


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## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

aquariam said:


> Very, very very good. Those are very happy plants.


Thanks! Getting them started was hard, but once they established..whoosh!. The Anubias have all been split once-some go into the other tank, some to LFS and I have to almost take a machete to the Red Ludwigia :lol:



aquariam said:


> I think it's my screen but those black angels barely show up. Look nice from what I can see


 yes, thats my photo problem. They are either washed out or too dark and flash is worse. The Angels are healthy, though, and I love how the black and silver parts have a blue tint/shimmer to them.



aquariam said:


> ...some granite, smooth rounded along the front edge of the scape would be good spawn sites for the rams if you wanted to see and could blend in well.


 I have some round stones that match the gravel ("natural river") between 4-6 cm across. Is that large enough? My girl is fond of that driftwood/anubias stump in the left corner, I could tuck them in beside/behind it. Its more easily defended and I could see...


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't know what's up with aquariam's rams, but he's sexing them wrong. The male is the one he called female, and vice versa. Very nice fish. If you can, consider getting a 20L for breeding the rams; it's very fun to watch and is a nice source of spending money.


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

BelieveInBlue said:


> I don't know what's up with aquariam's rams, but he's sexing them wrong. The male is the one he called female, and vice versa. Very nice fish. If you can, consider getting a 20L for breeding the rams; it's very fun to watch and is a nice source of spending money.


Nope. No disrespect. Bolivians are backwards. I've seen it too many times. Over years.

Those rocks you mentioned are fine :thumb:


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

aquariam said:


> BelieveInBlue said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know what's up with aquariam's rams, but he's sexing them wrong. The male is the one he called female, and vice versa. Very nice fish. If you can, consider getting a 20L for breeding the rams; it's very fun to watch and is a nice source of spending money.
> ...


*
..Normally the male is larger, has longer filaments on the fins, and more color. Also, if you look at the female in TeteRouge's photos, you can see her breeding tube down. TeteRouge, you do have a very nice pair, and I hope they spawn for you soon.
*

No that is the male papilla in response to the females coloring. The fish you identify as female is male. Again in Bolivians the female is larger and dominant and wears the pants.









I'd bet money that's a female. Takers?  jk jk

(my fish)
http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/ ... 0_4657.mp4
lays eggs._ ^Video_










I've kept 3 pairs. Its hard to watch a spawn but if you do you will always notice the more colorful larger 'male' laying eggs. That's how they are. I've seen it 3x. That's proof to me. 1 or 2 could be fluke. Not 3.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Since you seem to be so adamant about the sex of the bolivian rams, perhaps you'd like to show us a video of YOUR rams breeding?


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Don't have one bud. You don't want to believe me it's your call. Used to be a man's word was his bond.










There was the male from one pair.

No disrespect but I don't spend free time going on Cichlid forum to lie or make things up. If i Hadn't seen the larger dominant fish drop eggs 3 times I'd keep my mouth zipped.

Peace



Chromedome52 said:


> Aquariam, YOU are the one with an unusual pair.


Not 3x with 6 fish.

Peace and love and aquatic things. :fish:


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Funny how I'm making things up yet what you're saying is contrary to every site I've read and every experienced dwarf cichlid keeper I've talked to.


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## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

BelieveInBlue said:


> If you can, consider getting a 20L for breeding the rams; it's very fun to watch and is a nice source of spending money.


Hmmm. 20L may be doable...After Christmas sales, etc and not so much room needed. I'll look into that. Meanwhile, I'll put the round rocks in and see if any spawning behaviour takes place.


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

BelieveInBlue said:


> Funny how I'm making things up yet what you're saying is contrary to every site I've read and every experienced dwarf cichlid keeper I've talked to.


I never accused you of anything. I said I've noticed the sky is green, not blue, 3 times. That's it. Take it or leave it. Don't be like that. They spawn at 5am and the female makes the male do most of the fanning how many spawns have been filmed? None of mine unfortunately...


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

> No disrespect but I don't spend free time going on Cichlid forum to lie or make things up.


Seems like you're accusing me of something there, or else why would you have put that sentence in response to my post?


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

TeteRouge said:


> BelieveInBlue said:
> 
> 
> > If you can, consider getting a 20L for breeding the rams; it's very fun to watch and is a nice source of spending money.
> ...


Keep an eye on Craigslist, and the chain stores. I know Petsmart does a dollar per gallon sale a lot, and most chain stores have huge discounts on equipment over Boxing day/week. Craigslist and your local aquarist clubs/forums will probably have cheap used set ups as well.


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## halffrozen (Sep 24, 2011)

Cant we Bolivian keepers all get along!? ****! lol

OP, your tank looks FANTASTIC! BR's looks B E A UTIFUL!


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## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

halffrozen said:


> Cant we Bolivian keepers all get along!? darn! lol
> OP, your tank looks FANTASTIC! BR's looks B E A UTIFUL!


Thanks, halffrozen! Considering your beauties that's high praise indeed  And as long as the BRs figure who is the do-er and who is the do-ee... 



BelieveInBlue said:


> ... a nice source of spending money....
> ...I know Petsmart does a dollar per gallon sale a lot, and most chain stores have huge discounts on equipment over Boxing day/week. Craigslist and your local aquarist clubs/forums will probably have cheap used set ups as well.


LOL, BiB, now you've done it. You know shopping, putting together and setting up the tank is half the fun...  and if I can justify it by maybe having offspring to sell...

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's comments  If I get a spawn and/or a new tank I'll post an update :wink:


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## Pizzle (May 24, 2011)

The whole tank is :drooling: but especially the plants. I'm just curious what the tank size is so that I can get some idea of scale.

Edit: just noticed that under the full tank shot it says 29 gallons. It looks bigger than that...a sure sign of good aquascaping. Are you using CO2 or fertilizer? How long ago did you start those plants?


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## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

Pizzle said:


> The whole tank is :drooling: but especially the plants...
> ...just noticed that under the full tank shot it says 29 gallons. It looks bigger than that...a sure sign of good aquascaping. Are you using CO2 or fertilizer? How long ago did you start those plants?


Thanks-  Yes, its 29g. This site, members' encouragement and so many others' beautiful tanks inspired me. I had to look back at some of my older posts to find out when I converted from _plasticus vulgarus_  to live. It was the first part of Jan 09, so almost 3 years..I started this particular aquascape in March of that year. There are still a couple of photos of it from 2009 in the "Your Tanks" section, "search by owner" then to "TeteRouge". And the anubius, java fern, java moss, bronze wendtii you see in that are the same plants in this one. I used Flourish Excel at first, then added a Hagen CO2 generator a little later (got it on sale for $9). Now that the plants are established, I only use the Excel when I remember to and the CO2 when I feel like mixing up a batch. So to establish yes, and now not so much.


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## halffrozen (Sep 24, 2011)

What lighting are you using?

Looks very low light, but could be because of photo editing or a polarizer??


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## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

The lighting in the tank is 2x 20 watt PowerGlos and a 65 watt Current Smartpaq 50/50 daylight/actinic. I'm having trouble with the Angel photos because the 2x20s are too dim to snap the Angels, they are too hyper, and when I turn on the 50/50, the camera picks up the actinic too much and makes them look like smurfs  . I try to compensate by upping contrast and lowering exposure- ergo the dark look. In _any_ lighting- to the naked eye- the Angels have a small blue shimmering on the silver and a blu_ish_ tint to the dark areas. The single photo in my first post is almost spot on. I was lucky to catch the one momentarily still. The rest of the time, I get blurs unless I speed up the shutter _then_ I get a grainy mess! :?


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## halffrozen (Sep 24, 2011)

Ahh, I see.

Hey, got another question, what kind of substrate is that?? Looks fantastic!

Looks alot like HD or Lowes Pea Gravel..


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## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm thinking perhaps the substrate you are looking at is in Aquariam's photo, tho despite the glare on the light colored gravels, it is almost identical to what's in my tank, just a little larger. Mine came from an LFS, probably Petsmart or Petco. It was 5-6 yrs ago so I can't remember for sure. Its a little smaller than Lowes Pea Gravel, and is referred to as natural river gravel. I added a little black. I've found larger sizes at craft stores, which I soak in soapy boiling water in case they are oiled or waxed, then rinse them well.

Mine:


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