# Syno Petricola or Lucipinis?



## eutimio (Aug 22, 2012)

Picture #1 - Petricola? Picture #2 is Lucipinis if im right?To me looks like #1 is Petricola.Darker than my other Lucipinis but smaller dots and smaller eyes.Petricola or not?Got it today to round up the number of my 4 Lucipinis.I think 5 catfish are enough right?Thanks guys


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Pic 2 is a Multipunctatus. They have bigger eyes. The dorsal fins are different also, as well as more silvery with bigger dots.

Pic 1 does look more like Lucipinis. Does look darker than average, might be older fish. Not sure how to tell the difference between Lucipinis and real Petricola, but Petricola is not supposed to be common in the hobby.


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## eutimio (Aug 22, 2012)

And i thought i have lucipinnis...worse even,the guy at the LFS told me they are Petricola but obviously this is not the case.the one i got today is my favorite out of all.It might be petricola or lucipinnis or even polli (darker body)..Anyway..Best looking catfishes everThanks noki


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Pic 1 is Synodontis petricola. S. petricola has smaller spots on the head than the body. S. lucipinnis has same sized spots throughout. Pic 2 is a multipunctatus.

PS the fish in the background of Pic 1 is also a multipunctatus as is the fish whose tail can be seen on the right side.

Andy


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Dunno its one of those its realy hard to tell and I kind of suspect hybrid.
Its not typical Synodontis petricola








nor typical Synodontis lucipinnis









How big is it? As lucipinnis do not get beyond 4" and petricola can easily get to 6" it can be a good indication with adults.
Though even that does not rule out hybrid.

Yep agree on the http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... cies_id=95 for the other one(s).

All the best James


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## eutimio (Aug 22, 2012)

the one in the first picture is around 4" now...i dont know i have no experience with catfish more so with hybrids...*** never seen a hybrid catfish and probably if i see one i would never notice it


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I don't see anything that indicates its a hybrid. There is some variability in these fish and the picture is taken with the fish looking away and under different lighting so you can't really compare it to the other photos.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

The shape and spot shape are rather similar to young Synodontis euptera a catfish commonly used to produce hybrids, the spot shapes are not one I have seen in WC.
Second there are no confirmed breedings of pure petricola as far as reported.
Kind of leaves some posibilities.
One its a clever hybrid back bred to look a lot like petricola.
Two its a pure petricola bred by someone who is very very shy who prefers to breed em, raise em and sell em without anyone knowing about it. Kind of far fetched.
Three its a WC that looks like no WC petricola I have seen.
(This though is very poss as yep they are very variable. The unlikely thing is a WC one losing its label and location. They are very pricy fish when properly imported and labeled)

All the best James

PS very interested in what folk like Sidguppy say (knows far more than me) if you post it on whats my cat section of Planet catfish.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=13


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I don't see anything that makes me thing S. euptera. S. euptera has a higher body shape and dorsal fin, stripes in the tail, and a reticulated pattern when young not a spotted one. Although it is a very variable fish. Other than them being more numerous, I dont' see any difference in the shape of the spots compared to the one you pictured as an example of S. petricola. The number of spots by itself is not an indicator of anything as there is a lot of variability in the species.

I agree that many people misidentify S. petricola and S. lucipinnis and that S. petricola is harder to breed than S. lucipinnis but that doesn't mean it hasn't been done. Or that the fish couldn't have been misidentified by the exporter or wholesaler. I actually know of an aquarist in Missouri who thought he was breeding S. lucipinnis until a catfish expert visiting him told him he actually had petricola.

Hopefully we can get some other experts to weigh in.

Andy


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Would be a bad choice I think.
I dunno any catfish expert that has not been banned from this cichlid forum. :wink: 
Wy not go direct to folk who know about the sale of hybrids as pure petricola?
Its not difficult, its just never been done.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I love the way this forum says you can not edit posts. :dancing:

Heres closer to what I wanted to say.

Sorry for the double post.

Would be a bad choice I think.
I dunno any catfish expert that has not been banned from this cichlid forum. :wink: 
Why not go direct to folk who know about the sale of hybrids as pure petricola?
Its prob not difficult breeding pure petricola using the ways to breed hybrids (hormone injection and stripping the females of eggs and males of milt), its just it has never been done. Why bother when you can sell hybrids far easier to produce and far faster growing at the same sort of price?
Only mistery to me is why no one has bothered to expose this before. 

All the best James


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

Personally, if I wanted an ID on a catfish, I'd post on Planetcatfish.com rather than asking a bunch of cichlid keepers who think 90% of the fish in the hobby are hybridized. (it's really more like 60-65%.)


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Chromedome52 said:


> Personally, if I wanted an ID on a catfish, I'd post on Planetcatfish.com rather than asking a bunch of cichlid keepers who think 90% of the fish in the hobby are hybridized. (it's really more like 60-65%.)


 :lol: 
Yep thats about the size of the problem.  
Huge prob with Synodonitis bred in Easten Europe in the UK. I dunno if you guys have the same prob but our LFSs are fooled or go along with with very clever hybrids.
Kind of very very hard to tell em from pure Synos (been back bred a few times to pure guys on the top notch stuff) but I have no trust in em.

No prob with em sold as hybrids I have quite a few for about £5 and they are great fish and fine if you just want something that looks and acts OK. But as pure Syno petricola WC sell at a min of £28 and often £150 for other pure Synodontis its kind of a rip off to sell hybids as pure guys?
Not that these were sold as pure guys, so my guess is why assume they are pure, just because it looks pure its prob they are not pure?
And the one close to petricola does not even look pure. :fish:

All the best James


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

We don't buy Synos from Eastern Europe. We have hobbyist/breeders all over the US, and yes, a few can breed true _petricola_ without hormone treatments. We also import directly from Africa. There are some breeders in Florida that have hybridized some Synos, notably eupterus types. Narwhal72 is a person who I know is plugged into that part of the hobby, and I would take his opinions seriously.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Then the following question should be easy.
Is petricola an an egg scatterer like lucipinnis or a cuckoo spawner like Synodontis multipunctata?
No good running to Planet catfish they do not seem to know. :wink:


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## eutimio (Aug 22, 2012)

Then I suppose nobody knows anything about catfish except....?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I am no expert but the spot shape (and merging of spots) does not seem to match http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=857 .
It makes me very reluctant to say yep for sure pure Synodontis petricola.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

"All in all. this species (as presently defined) is highly variable and likely to contain more than one valid species in the long run."

It could well be its just not the one we get in the UK.

All the best James


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

The problem is how many people actually know what the original catfish were when they were caught in the lake. The scientific info has been vague over the years. Trade names have been confusing.

Also catfish a few years older look different from younger fish. Mature fish seem darker with more spots.


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