# 30 Gallon Wet/Dry for 55 Gallon



## Guams (Aug 21, 2009)

Finally finished with it and it's up and operational at this point. I'll still need to do some tweeking to cut back on the noise level, but at least the water levels are constant. 

This is the whole kit'n'kaboodle:









Here's my rendition of the DIY Skimmerless Overflow found in the library. I ended up finding an overflow box with a skimmer at a LFS. The lady there said she was just going to throw it out so I volunteered to take it from her. I got the skimmer, overflow box, 2 U-tubes, and all the necessary plumbing parts (plus some) for $8.00. Some of it is sitting in my garage on a shelf for the time being.

The black tubes you see are a failed attempt at making my own siphon tubes. I started with 3/4" flexible water hose and cut them to length. Then I filled them up with sand and capped the ends. After heating them, I bent them to shape and let them sit for a while. Unfortunately, they're not holding shape. I'll more than likely try to find something commercially available with a larger diameter.










Then the water flows into a 3-drawer Sterilite bin. Drawer 3 was removed and the bottom cut off to lower it so that I can add a glass top to the sump in the future.










Drawer 1 has a layer of four 3M Scotchbrite Scour Pads (Sam's club has them nice and cheap, and in packs of 20 ). Underneath the scour pads is a layer of poly-fill. I might add a thicker layer of one or the other to reduce noise since there's a bit of splashing yet. The bottom of the drawer has a grotesque amount of small holes in it.










Drawer 2 is filled with pot scrubbers. I bought the entire stock (a whopping 6 bags) from my local dollar store. I have one bag remaining for spares. The entire bottom of the drawer was cut out, less 1/4" all the way around, and replaced with eggcrate to hold the pot scrubbers and provide unrestricted flow into the sump.










Then the water moves into the sump where it's heated and pumped back into the tank by this bad boy. It's a Pondmaster 950. Now that the whole thing is up and running, I think size of the pump was a bit overkill... but meh. I found that with the pump simply sitting in the sump, a vortex was created and the pump pulled air in, which shot into the tank causing a cluster of microbubbles... and a horrible sound. I remedied this with a 45 degree PVC elbow and a piece of 1" ID braided vinyl tubing. The PVC elbow was a bit too big, so I wedged a piece of scour pad between the elbow and the pump inlet to keep it in place. The pump is also, temporarily, sitting on a piece of scour pad until I find a better way to reduce the vibration noise.










Since the pump was a bit big, I had to divert some of the flow back into the sump to keep it from drying up. Here's the plumbing for that. Surprisingly, I can get fairly accurate adjustments from the ball valve. The water, as you can see, flows back into drawer 1 for redundant filtration. Any remaining water gets pumped back into the main tank.










I couldn't get a picture of the outlet into the tank because the glass was in the way, and I didn't feel like taking it off again. The outlet is designed in such a way that I don't have to worry about siphoning a butt-load of water into my sump if the power goes out AND it provides ample surface agitation to prevent the build up of surface film. I used two 90 degree PVC elbows and one 45 degree elbow. The two 90's run the outlet over the lip of the tank while the 45 is merely for directing the water flow. The tip of one of the openings on the 45 is right at water level, preventing the siphon. The elbows were all dyed black with Rit Dye to hide them a bit better.

The future plans for the tank include a repaint to black (along with the light fixture so that it matches and blends in), a new glass top for both the tank and the sump, and new rock work. I'm also considering purchasing some 2.5% tint from Wal-Mart and applying it to the back to hide the plumbing.

And here it is currently. Please ignore the piece of paper taped to the glass. That was used as a marker during the testing stages and I forgot to take it off until I saw it... just now. This is a good picture of the crappy siphon tubes I made. :lol:


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Give that man a cigar. =D> 
Nice work, done well..
I`m a big fan of those scour pads myself.
Come back in a while, just for an update..
Thanks for the pictures.


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

I totally concur with Kaiser :thumb:


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## Guams (Aug 21, 2009)

KaiserSousay said:


> Give that man a cigar. =D>
> Nice work, done well..
> I`m a big fan of those scour pads myself.
> Come back in a while, just for an update..
> Thanks for the pictures.


I plan on sticking around for a while. I caught the bug last year sometime, and now my brother-in-law caught it too. :lol:

I'll be documenting the projects as I go, but with winter approaching I don't know how much the work will slow down. I don't think I'll be able to get the stand painted until sometime in the spring... but most everything else I'll be able to do indoors.

I read about the scour pads from CF and thought I'd give'em a shot since it's a much cheaper solution. I have two of them in a Penguin 200B on my 46-gallon bowfront and I don't notice any difference between using them and the cartridges that came with the Penguin. I also use the poly-fill in my TopFin 60 as a polisher.... It's a well-filtered tank.

Thanks for the help in my other thread KaiserSousay.


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## john73738 (Sep 22, 2009)

With the above comments, great job. Starting mine this wekend. :drooling:


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## Murky (Jun 13, 2007)

looks good.. a side note.. you can use the lift tubes for undergravel filters for the u-tubes with the sand/heat method.. then spray them black with krylon fusion except for a little window on the top to check for air bubbles.. that way you can see if airbubbles are forming and keep most of the tube from growing algae.. that's what i'm using on my wetdry and it works great

If your experience turns out to be anything like mine, I found out that when I went from non-see through U-tubes to ones that I could be sure had no air inside I was able to turn my pump all the way on.


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## Guams (Aug 21, 2009)

Murky said:


> looks good.. a side note.. you can use the lift tubes for undergravel filters for the u-tubes with the sand/heat method.. then spray them black with krylon fusion except for a little window on the top to check for air bubbles.. that way you can see if airbubbles are forming and keep most of the tube from growing algae.. that's what i'm using on my wetdry and it works great
> 
> If your experience turns out to be anything like mine, I found out that when I went from non-see through U-tubes to ones that I could be sure had no air inside I was able to turn my pump all the way on.


That's a good idea, I hadn't thought of those.

I don't know that I'll be able to ever have my pump run full bore into the tank. I would need a substantially larger overflow or more overflows....

Also two more things I learned during this process that I'll throw out there for everybody.

1) I had the common gurgling problem with the standpipe in the overflow box. I thought about doing a capped standpipe to eliminate the noise... but found an easier method: airline tubing. I put the piece of airline tubing into the standpipe. So, instead of air being sucked into the the pipe from the water's surface, it's now sucking air in through the airline tubing, thus completely eliminating the gurgling. It took a bit of tinkering to get the tubing in it's optimal place, but it works like a charm.

2) Rit Dye isn't worth the hassle, IMO. It either deformed or shrunk some of the PVC elbows and I wasn't able to get a piece of PVC pipe into it. I had to use some 1" ID braided vinyl tubing to join some of the elbows which fit nice and tight. Also, the PVC cement "melts," or whatever it would be called, the Rit Dye when you apply it... making for a messy cement on the dyed parts. Though, this was just an observation on my part... it may work for others...


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## john73738 (Sep 22, 2009)

I am building and testing a skimmer overflow this weekend. Check my post in a week or so. Looking to move A LOT of water with this.

http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=202582

Figuring can build fairly reasonably.

Bear


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

Guams said:


>


I wouldn't keep metal in the water, even if it is in the sump. I know they have some plastic thingies that serve the same purpose but look a little different, or maybe try a zip tie instead.

Great job on everything else.


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

mightyevil said:


> I wouldn't keep metal in the water, even if it is in the sump. I know they have some plastic thingies that serve the same purpose but look a little different, or maybe try a zip tie instead.
> 
> Great job on everything else.


To each their own, but it wouldn't bother me at all. The amount of metal that will leach is incredibly small. Don't know about you guys, but the water comes to my house through old iron pipes and goes through iron and copper pipes in my house. A small little clamp isn't going to change anything. Besides, that looks like it's above the water line in the sump.

Don't think I'd trust a zip tie on a fitting under pressure.


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

mithesaint said:


> mightyevil said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't keep metal in the water, even if it is in the sump. I know they have some plastic thingies that serve the same purpose but look a little different, or maybe try a zip tie instead.
> ...


Its not the metal leaching I would be worried about, it is the rust it can build and introduce to the tank's health and looks.

As far as old pipes bringing your water, pressured clean water is constantly moving across them so you don't need to worry too much but the cleaner the water, the better. Hence why people use RODI more and more in this hobby.

Just a thought... and I am trying to help not start a debate. If he changes it good, if not, like you said..."to each their own". :thumb:


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Not so certain you wanna zip tie the pressure side of a pump. But then I've seen people do weirder stuff.

I am guessing that clamp is Stainless and rust should not be a problem or at the very least much less of a problem than a pump pushing 900GPH uncontrolled or unsupervised in a cabinet base.


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

fox said:


> Not so certain you wanna zip tie the pressure side of a pump. But then I've seen people do weirder stuff.
> 
> I am guessing that clamp is Stainless and rust should not be a problem or at the very least much less of a problem than a pump pushing 900GPH uncontrolled or unsupervised in a cabinet base.


 :lol: The zip tie was of last resort, since it is a submersible pump I wouldn't even worry about it being that tight since the water that does manage to escape will fall right back into the return chamber. I certainly do not use any bracing for my return line off of the pump and they seem to work flawlessly. Zip ties can be pretty strong...believe me!

I have never seen a stainless steel clamp like that one, not saying they don't exist but that being said, I doubt that one is stainless (could be wrong).


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

mightyevil said:


> I have never seen a stainless steel clamp like that one, not saying they don't exist but that being said, I doubt that one is stainless (could be wrong).


Stainless Steel worm gear clamps are actually very common and quite ubiquitous in the marine industry. The OP could in fact confirm if the clamp is zinc coated, which it does not appear to be, iron or SS.

The biggest mess I've ever had to clean was when a submersable powerhead lost its suction cup grip and pointed upward inna tank and shot water upwards at only 150 GPH under a versa top. The wife was not too pleased with that one. I could only imagine my Mag 18 doing the same, I would guess it would fountain upwards at the least three or four feet  .

Its all good mate, cheers.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I would not worry about rust. A public aquarium I used to volunteer at had a huge anchor "snagged" on a fake coral head. On the back non-public side of the coral head, there was a huge flow of rust from the anchor all the way down the cinder blocks the coral was made of. They didn't bother to decorate the back since it could not be seen from the viewing area.

Also many streams and lakes have natural flows of rust entering them from iron-containing rocks they pass by. And much of the oceans' bottom is basalt, a rock high in iron. That does not seem to be what's wrong with the oceans.


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## Dj823cichild (Mar 30, 2009)

What kind of sand did you use Guams?


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## Guams (Aug 21, 2009)

Dj823cichild said:


> What kind of sand did you use Guams?


I used Granusil Silica Sand for sandblasting. A 50lb bag was 5-6 bucks at Menards. Not my picture... it's from another user on the forum, but this is the stuff.


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## Guams (Aug 21, 2009)

Hmph... glad I came back and looked at this thread. I somehow managed a significant portion of page 1... so...

The hose clamp came from Menards, just a standard run-of-the-mill $0.49 hose clamp. I don't know if it's stainless steel, zinc coated, or what have you.

I wouldn't trust a zip-tie holding the hose to the output of the pump. It was loose to begin with and 800+GPH of water rushing through would certainly dislodge it. Then I would have 800+GPH of water shooting straight up in the air with a mind of it's own. I'll have to double check the material the hose clamp is made of...

In the picture, yes the hose clamp is above the water line... but I've since raised the water line about an inch to decrease the chances of air getting into the pump. It also makes for less splashing, thus less noise.

Thanks for the comments/feedback/suggestions everyone. I'm still trying to figure out a way to reduce the amount of noise from the pump. It's mostly vibration noise... so once I get that figured out, all I'll have to do is eliminate the rest of the water splashing and this tank should be as silent as my HOB filtered tank.


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## Guams (Aug 21, 2009)

Time for an update.

The whole set-up was making some noise that I wanted to do away with, badly. Soooo.....

I bought some Aquaseal Washers (at least, that's what the packaging calls them) from Ace Hardware and glued those to the base of the water pump, kind of like little rubber feet for it. Then I added the sponge pre-filter that came with the pump. Pump noise - gone. Checkpoint A reached.

Then I tackled the overflow. I experimented with two different sized standpipes since I went with the skimmerless overflow. The one I used originally was 8.25" tall. I tried 7.25" and didn't get much of a difference. I tried 6.25" and had better results... I was able to up the volume of water being put into the tank by the pump... but this also upped the amount of gurgling noise coming from the standpipe.

So I did some Googling and some searching on CF. Everyone hyped about the Durso Standpipes, but I didn't have the materials handy to complete one. Soo... I took a spare 90* PVC elbow and a spare 45* PVC elbow. I attached the 90* to the top of the 6.25" standpipe and attached the 45* to the 90*. The result was a standpipe opening that sort of faces downward... but not completely. I experimented with this and found I still had a gurgling issue. I pulled the elbows out of the overflow and ended up drilling two 15/64 inch holes in the top of the 90* elbow. I inserted a couple short pieces of airline tubing and began playing with their levels. After some tinkering, the noise from the overflow... to my surprise... went away. Checkpoint B reached.

Third, I wanted to get rid of the crappy looking intake tubes I fabricated. After searching high and low I found some Lee's Aquarium Siphon Tubes, complete with intake strainers, at a pet store in Milwaukee. At $7.95 a piece, they were a little pricey... but exactly what I was looking for. They were tucked way back in a barely visited corner of the store. Go figure. Checkpoint C reached.

I now have a near silent wet/dry filter... and I'm happy to say that sitting next to it as I type this, all I hear is the water entering the first drawer and a low hum from the water pump.

Unfortunately, the rest of the work I have planned will have to wait until I find a new job since being fired on Monday. :x :x :x


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## john73738 (Sep 22, 2009)

Been following this thread as I am about to begin a sump project. Would love to see pics of the changes you have done. I have many ideas I am working on , and will be doing a lot of mock up work. Getting ready to move next month and will be starting my project. Poor fishies will be living in tubs for the next couple months, The work you have done is great.

Best Luck in your job search

Bear


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## Guams (Aug 21, 2009)

john73738 said:


> Would love to see pics of the changes you have done.


Here's a picture of the overflow looking at it from the front of the tank. The shorter siphon tube with the black strainer... that's just there to get extra water into the overflow. It's temporary. The clear ones are the Lee's siphon tubes. You can also see the standpipe, though it's not the greatest shot.










Here's a shot from the top of the overflow, looking down. It shows the two pieces of airline tubing I have shoved into the standpipe to eliminate the noise.












john73738 said:


> Best Luck in your job search


Thanks much.

Hopefully the pictures help in understanding the set-up, at least for now. Tomorrow morning I'll shut the system down and get some better pictures.


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## john73738 (Sep 22, 2009)

Guams,

Thanks for the pics. Nice work, Cant wait to start my project. These forums are making me chop at the bit to start my own. :dancing:


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