# Breeding african cichlids? (video included)



## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

So i am new to the site and this is my first attempt at a post so i appreciate everyones patience and look foward to your feedback! I just upgraded my african cichlids to a 50 gallon tank and at first i wanted it to he a show tank. But recently my electric blue(ali?) and acei have been doing what looks like some hardcore mating ritual but there both males i believe(are they confused) and not sure if i should take the opportunity to try and breed or just add more fish and go with my original plan of making it a show tank, or both! Anyway anyone that could shed some insight and/or advice on whats going on and what i should do would be much appreciated!


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Welcome to C-F!!

I don't see your video so you may want to repost it. What other fish are in this tank besides the two you posted?

Full tank dimensions would be helpful.


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

<-----that should take you to the video of the behavior i witnessed which provoked me to get more insight into what exactly is goin on and what my best option is. Can u guys see the link?? I kno their deffinatly trying to breed but their both males i thought? Confused? Should i get a couple females for them? Again water parameters r perfect and my temp is 78 degrees. Any feedback is MUCH appreciated. Back to you!


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

This is my secobd post trying to get more feedback on what exactly is going on here. Im 99% sure their trying to mate but being as their both males makes me just as confused as i think they are. Anyone that could shed some light as to whats going on and what options i have would be much appreciated. Should i get them females? Any insight would help as im confused. Water parameters are almost perfect and a warm 79 degrees. (Fluval canister, led lights, deep blue uv sterilizer)


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## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

SImply a dominance display.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I couldn't tell from the video but did you actually see any eggs being laid and picked up?


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

Itd have to disagree this is much more than a dominance display. If it was dominance they wouldnt be dancing around each other. And the electric blue has been building that nest for a week. Deenda i didnt see any eggs being dropped or picked up. Nor are either fosh holding. And im pretty positive their both males. Do males somtimes get confused? Deffinatly a mating ritual though wouldnt you agree? Thanks for your responses! Btw its a 50 gallon tank and their the only fish in the tank besides a 3" frontosa.


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

rennsport2011 said:


> SImply a dominance display.


If it was a dominance thing thered be more chasing and just the eratic shaking. Their trying to fertilize eggs and he built that mound of sand inside the terra cotta pot.


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## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

have you vented the fish to confirm both are male? that looked like a male female breeding ritual.


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## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

I have a male looking Pseudotropheus flavus same size as the dominant male only slightly less colorful. I watched them mate and what I thought was a male flavus is now holding. My Kenyi females will turn bright yellow when holding also. Is your Acei is dominate in the tank? it is very possible she has male looks.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

rennsport2011 said:


> SImply a dominance display.


+1


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

No i have never vented them to make 100% sure. The thing is though sontimes they do that mating ritual and other times they do somthing completely different. They shake erradically in front of each other which i believe is territorial. i kno the difference between a mating damce and a territorial dance and im telling you they do both to each other. Really think their confused lol. But if i was to get a female electric blue she would be very dull in color conpared to the one i have rite? Thanks for everyones responses *** been coming to this site dor awhile and its pretty exciting reading about my fish for a change! Much appreciate feedback!!


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

pfoster74 said:


> I have a male looking Pseudotropheus flavus same size as the dominant male only slightly less colorful. I watched them mate and what I thought was a male flavus is now holding. My Kenyi females will turn bright yellow when holding also. Is your Acei is dominate in the tank? it is very possible she has male looks.


I need more fish in the tank because they both take turns being king of the tank. Ill seperate them with a tank divider and "reset" them and the tank king flip flops. Rite now the electric blue is tank boss. I need more fish.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Chester B said:


> rennsport2011 said:
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> 
> > SImply a dominance display.
> ...


+1 Mating and fighting look the same unless you see eggs. :thumb:


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## POWER77 (Mar 26, 2014)

DJRansome said:


> Chester B said:
> 
> 
> > rennsport2011 said:
> ...


I agree. Cichlids do well in numbers as the aggression is spread out. In a tank that size I would stick to one species - choose a monomorphic species if you don't like dull colours.


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

I was under the impression that when cichlids fight they face each other and open there mouths in a way that looks like they want to eat each other. *** actially seem them do this and my electric blue ripped off the top lip of my acei. It healed perfectly though and now i cant even tell it happened. Very hardy fish. However seeing as i kno what they look like when they fight im 99% sure this was them trying to mate. Im dissapointed you guys are seeing this as a territorial thing when everytbing *** ever read and seen tells me its a mating ritual. What i dont understand is whyy.


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

Im going to disagree *** seen them fight and when they dight they face each other and open their mouths in a way that makes it look like theyre trying to each other. One time they really got into it and electric blue actually tore off acei's top lip. It ended up healing perfectly. Cant even tell it happened. And again im dissapointed more of you arent recognizing this as a mating ritual whoch im 99% sure it is. I just dont know whyy. Also on a side note the electric blue has a cloudy eye for some time now treated woth mela and pimafix and nothing. I think he has cataracts. Thanks again for everyones input! THRIVE or DIE!!! Also i think my 50 gallon is plenty big for other species if the aquascapee is on point.


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

50 gallons is plenty big in my experience for different species. You just have to know how to i troduce then. But again guys this is not fighting or territorial i kno my fish and have seen them fight this was a mating ritual. I just dont kno why they would be mating. Unless like someone said above its a male looking female that makes sense. On a side note wen they fight they face each other and open wide. Electric blue tore acei's upper lip off once. Healed perfectly thou cant even tell anymore. But again i appreciate everyone responses really cool of everyobe just dissapointed not more of you are recogniZing this as a mating ritual.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Kmcmahon21 said:


> 50 gallons is plenty big in my experience for different species


Not true. 50 gallons is considered a smaller aquarium for cichlids, and is in fact too small for your electric blue.



Kmcmahon21 said:


> But again guys this is not fighting or territorial i kno my fish and have seen them fight this was a mating ritual.


Not true. Aggression is shown in different ways. When they get to the point that they are locking mouths that can be considered a more serious form of aggression. Just like other animals they don't immediately take aggression to a level 10 if there are other ways to assert their dominance that will minimize their chance of getting injured. An example of this can be seen with our other pets. Dogs who are acting aggressively with one another will first do things like make direct eye contact, have stiff body language, from there it may move on to showing teeth and growls, and if one doesn't back down then this may eventually lead to a physical fight. It rarely if ever goes straight to physical confrontation.

In the end believe whatever you want, and ignore what others are saying. You have plenty of more experienced people with decades of keeping cichlids telling you what they've observed in your video in an effort to help you. 
'


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## POWER77 (Mar 26, 2014)

Kmcmahon21 said:


> Im dissapointed you guys are seeing this as a territorial thing when everytbing I've ever read and seen tells me its a mating ritual. What i dont understand is whyy.





Kmcmahon21 said:


> And again im dissapointed more of you arent recognizing this as a mating ritual whoch im 99% sure it is. I just dont know whyy. Also i think my 50 gallon is plenty big for other species if the aquascapee is on point.





Kmcmahon21 said:


> But again i appreciate everyone responses really cool of everyobe just dissapointed not more of you are recogniZing this as a mating ritual.


Well I'm disappointed you're asking for advice when you obviously already have all the answers...


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

Breenda recognised it as a possible breeding ritual. If u look up "african cichlids mating" it looks like exaxtly what they were doing just minus the eggs. And the electric blue has been building that mound in the pot for a week thats hos neat. Coincidence? Maybe but i think not. I am listening to ur guys i put and i appreciate it all but i watch my fish alot and i really think thats what it is. Hypothetically speaking if that is what they were doing. What do u suggest i do? Get females? I only have 3 cichlids in the 50 gallon *** heard overcrowding to about 8-10 would be better. THRIVE or DIE!!


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Kmcmahon21 said:


> What do u suggest i do? Get females? I only have 3 cichlids in the 50 gallon I've heard overcrowding to about 8-10 would be better.


If you want to go the breeding route I'd try and get 4 females for each of your males. That way the males will be more interested in the females and it helps to spread the aggression out. Otherwise I'd try and stick with a male only tank and look to get your numbers up over 10 fish but keep in mind you'll want to select for fish that don't grow too big.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I've had 2 males carry out the exact 'breeding ritual' as seen in your video. The Acei looks like a dead ringer for a male as well.

The Acei, S.Fryeri and Frontosa need a larger aquarium. Think 6' minimum. Also, Frontosa make poor tankmates for Malawi fish.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Kmcmahon21 said:


> I only have 3 cichlids in the 50 gallon I've heard overcrowding to about 8-10 would be better.


The proper level of overcrowding is ideal, but you have fish that need a 48" long tank so its hard to add any. It's a dilemma.


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> I've had 2 males carry out the exact 'breeding ritual' as seen in your video. The Acei looks like a dead ringer for a male as well.
> 
> The Acei, S.Fryeri and Frontosa need a larger aquarium. Think 6' minimum. Also, Frontosa make poor tankmates for Malawi fish.


what do u mean by dead-ringer?


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

DJRansome said:


> Kmcmahon21 said:
> 
> 
> > I only have 3 cichlids in the 50 gallon I've heard overcrowding to about 8-10 would be better.
> ...


My tank is 48 inches long bro? Its a 59 gallon thats 48 inches long ans like 17 inches tall.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Kmcmahon21 said:


> Iggy Newcastle said:
> 
> 
> > I've had 2 males carry out the exact 'breeding ritual' as seen in your video. The Acei looks like a dead ringer for a male as well.
> ...


It's a phrase meaning- a person or thing that seems exactly like someone or something else.

The long pointed anal fin gave it away for me.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

OK I was seeing 50G. What are the dimensions and shape of the tank. 48" long by ??" deep by 17" high? Gallons and height are not very important. Usually a 48x18 (75G rectangle) is minimum ideal size for acei and fryeri.


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Kmcmahon21 said:
> 
> 
> > Iggy Newcastle said:
> ...


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

DJRansome said:


> OK I was seeing 50G. What are the dimensions and shape of the tank. 48" long by ??" deep by 17" high? Gallons and height are not very important. Usually a 48x18 (75G rectangle) is minimum ideal size for acei and fryeri.


Gallons are not very important? Ha i beg to differ man im oretty sure gallons are the most inportant factor. The others come second. Either way wat would the dimensions have to do with my wuestion?


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## johnnymarko (May 30, 2014)

Kmcmahon21 said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> > OK I was seeing 50G. What are the dimensions and shape of the tank. 48" long by ??" deep by 17" high? Gallons and height are not very important. Usually a 48x18 (75G rectangle) is minimum ideal size for acei and fryeri.
> ...


How long have you been keeping cichlids?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

These fish are territorial and each male wants to claim a portion of the substrate to himself. Long tanks give the fish more separation. You can stock more fish in a 100G 60"x18" than you can in a 120G 48"x24" tank.

If the dimensions of your tank are 48"x18" then you would have room to add females.


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

I went to my lfs today and got lucky. Some guy in the military has to move so brought in this beautiful red peacock and a blueberry blotched cichlid and i got em both for 40$. There about 3 inches long so half the size of my other fish but to ny surprise it seems to be mich more harmonious environment overall for all the fish so far. I think by only have two doninate make cichlids in there was really bad but not with the addition of these teo beautiful cichlids the tank seems to be much more at peace and thriving. Im sure theyll catch up and color up very soon in size and color. Pictures anyone?


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## Kmcmahon21 (Oct 15, 2014)

About 3 years now. Quite sometime. Why do u ask u think im a newb huh? Im not i got the 50g set up with the penguin 300. Fluval canister306. Colormax dloursxents and marineland led doubledbright. Deepblue ub sterilizer. And some very expensive substrate and fish. I just added a beautiful german red pecock. My new favorite fish.


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