# 30 gallon tank need advice on adding fish to the 2 existing.



## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Hi I'm new to the site I'm a noobie to the cichlid world. I have a 30 gallon tank up and running and i have 1 male Labidochromis Caeruleus (Yellow Lab, Electric Yellow) and 1 male Metriaclima Estherae (Red Zebra). They seem very compatible and very active with eachother following each other and when stationary are often side by side. I have a few questions on other fish to add aswell as a bottom feeder.

What fish would go well with these 2 I already have?
(I would like very colorful active fish to add, I also do not want to breed fish with such a small tank and being so new I wouldnt want to be overwelmed and mess up the enviornment)

What bottom feeder would work well with these fish without being a huge eye soar to the stock?
(Would prefer 2 small ones over 1 big bottom feeder)

Thank you for any good advice you all would be able to provide.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

I saw a Metriaclima Callainos (colbalt zebra) I think he would be a great addition to the yellow and orange fish i have would he "fit" in with the other two?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

I assume the footprint of the tank is 36"x12"

personally I don't find yellow labs and red zebras compatible, because they easily cross breed, and not only do they get slightly large for a 30 gallon, but the zebra will get a little too aggressive

i would stay away from two species of the same genus, not only is there a cross breeding issue, but two metriaclima species can get pretty rough in a tank, especially 4 feet or smaller

in my honest opinion I would not do any of these fish and do something entirely different in this tank. but that's just my opinion.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Even worse 30x12. What would you recomend specifically? Are you implaying to stay away from cichlids all together?


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## Chris2500DK (Feb 15, 2006)

For a 30x12 tank I'd avoid Malawi cichlids. You could keep Tanganyikans (the smaller cave dwellers and shelldwellers) or South Americans (Apistogrammas, rams and the likes).


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

I was also recommended to go with Pseudotropheus saulosi 1 Male 5 Females with an upside down catfish, what do you think?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I think Pseudotropheus saulosi are one of the few Malawi options you have that could actually work in a 29g(30x12x18). They stay small and aren't too agressive like demasoni are. I don't know about upside down catfish, but I think you could get away with adding a few(maybe 3) Synodontis petricola or lucipinnis to the tank as long as you stay on top of water changes.

I had this exact setup and opted to buy 13 saulosi juveniles at around 1" then thin them down to 1 male and 5 females as they got older. But I ended up moving them to a 55g that someone traded me for the 29g. So I never actually got a chance to see them full grown in the 29g.

Although if I had to go back and do it again I would go with a nice planted West African tank, or a planted South American tank as a second choice. You really get more out of the tank if you go with something that will really flourish in it rather than something that can "do alright" in it. You won't have to fight to make it work the way you would with a 29g Ps. saulosi setup.

Also, if you want to keep your original two fish, I woudn't add anymore cichlids. Maybe just add some Syno. petricola/lucipinnis, which are really beutiful fish and worthy of being the focal point of their own setup in my opinion. Although be aware that you may have aggression issues down the line.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

I would like to stick with the 1 male and 5 females and return the two cichlids i have another tank just running empty and I would enjoy expirementing with the fry offspring. If I were to go this route what would be a good bottom eater that would cooperate but provide some fry control?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Synodontis petricola and lucipinnis will provide some fry control, but not to the extent that Syno. multipunctatus does. You could get some young multipunctatus if you really want complete fry control, but you would have to rehome them when they reached maturity or maybe even sooner.

I would still recommend something from West Africa or South America though. If you want to expiriment with breeding, you could choose a cichlid that will pair off with a mate, they can be very rewarding and fun to watch.

Of course its you decision, and you should pick whatever you think you'll enjoy the most. I chose Ps. saulosi because I really wanted a blue barred fish, plus the females are very attractive too, so its a win/win.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

So which bottom feeder would you recomend for partial fry control and wouldnt have to rehouse, and would not end up at the top of the tank from the Pseudotropheus saulosi?

Do you know any breeders of Pseudotropheus saulosi that would be able to ship to fairbanks AK????


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I'll pm you with the site were I got mine.

I personally would go with 2 or 3 lucipinnis.

But one thing to consider is your bioload. Thats alot of fish for such a small amount of water, especially with all the rocks in there that you need for Mbuna. I would recommend making a cheap DIY sump. You could really use the extra water. Otherwise you should do water tests twice a week for the first few weeks you have them just to make sure everything stays at reasonable levels.

You could also try a bristlenose pleco. I personally don't like plecos, but alot of people do. Just be aware that you saulosi may kill it.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

ahh your the man please send PM I'm dying to check it out.

so what im collecting is 1 male pseudotropheus saulosi 4 female pseudotropheus saulosi and 2 lucipinnis?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Yeah, I mean its kind of tough, because the more fish the better the fish behave. The lucipinnis will come out more if you have decent group and the saulosi will be friendlier the more females you have. But at the same time you have to balance out everything with your tank size.

The saulosi shouldn't bother the lucipinnis too much and even if they do, those cats are really fast. The saulosi should also be fine with eachother if you have your ratio correct. So your main issue is going to be your bioload. Like I said before a decent sized sump will help alot with that. If you can set up a sump that comes close to doubling your tank volume that would be perfect. You could even run a fry tank off it too if you want.

Also, just to be clear. With a setup like this you are taking a risk that things won't work out. You may have to replace an overly aggressive male, upgrade your tank, or in extreme cases get rid of everythingt and start fresh. But the more you pay attention and make needed adjustments early on the better your chances of success.

One more thing, I know I can get kind of long winded at times, but bare with me. I think you should start with juveniles rather than buying adult fish for a couple reasons. One; you will have a longer period of time to get familiar with your fish before problems are likely to arise. Two; you will be able to pick out which male you want to keep, so you will hopefully be able to pick out a more relaxed male than you may end up with if you buy one thats already mature.

I would suggest around 10 juvenile saulosi to start with and when they get older you can start weeding out the subdominant males. Although you may want to keep some of the sub males seperate for a short period of time to see if they color up. If they do you may want to go with one of those since they will be less aggressive than the male that comes out as the diminant in your main tank.

Just some stuff to think about. :lol: 
Good luck with your tank!


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Joe said that I should go with 2 pseudotropheus saulosi males and 4 pseudotropheus saulosi females and 2 Synodontis Petricola Burundis.

His reasoning was if one male dies ur screwed and the 2 Synodontis Petricola Burundis for fry control and would get along best with the pseudotropheus saulosis.

What do you think about all that, keeping in mind the size of my tank?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Having two males is something I considered when setting up my tank, and I never actually decided which way I was going to go. Basically, its highly unlikely that you will have two males colored up in a tank your size. But having another male in the tank could help encourage the dominant male to stay vibrantly colored up. The risk being that having another male could result in more aggression. Its your call, you could always remove the extra male later if it becomes a problem.

As far as the Sy. petricola go. They are essentially the same fish as the lucipinnis. Well obviously not exactly the same, but as far as what concerns you they are the same. Infact they are often sold labelled incorrectly because it is so difficult to determine which is which. Sy. lucipinnis was only described as a seperate fish in 2006, so it is a pretty new development and some people still call both of them petricola or petricola "giant" and petricola "dwarf". I think that one of them, I beleive its the petricola, won't or is difficult to breed in captivity, but the other will breed readily if given the correct conditions. Which makes the latter more affordable and easier to find. I'll have to look up some old threads on CF to remember which is which. There is also a small difference in size, but this isn't really noticed until they are fully mature, and even then its not definite.

There is a chance that he is selling lucipinnis as petricola burundi, but its hard to say. I'll try and ID them from the picture, but its pretty tough. Of course he is known for having dirt cheap prices, so they could be just very cheap petricola.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Alright, so I went back reread a couple articles. The lucipinnis are the smaller and only reach around 4", the petricola reach up to 5". So the lucipinnis would be better for your setup, but the petricola could work.

It does look like those petricola burundi are real. But I don't have alot of experience identifying the two species, so I could be wrong. One major difference between the two is that the black triangle on the anal fin differs. On petricola it is a solid triangle, on lucipinnis it is more of a V.

Anyways, kind of getting off topic since both will work in your tank, even if the lucipinnis would be slightly better because of their smaller size.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Also with the ordering of 2 males I fully understand your point on the likelyhood of increased aggression but if one were to die one the way from cali to north alaska it would be horrible but yes worst case senario i would remove one male.

you have no idea how much i appriciate your help. how would u go about setting up a 30x12x18 tank to reduce aggression. This is what i have now....


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I would pack it full of rocks. You may also want to reduce you substrate to about an inch. Take a look at the video link in my signature. If I were you I would stack up ricks like I have on the right side of my tank, but through your entire tank. Also, use smaller rocks. What your aiming for is creating as many caves and hiding spots as you can. This will help make up for the small tank footprint. You don't have to use the same type of rock that I used obviously, you can use what ever you want. You could even use driftwood if you wanted, but you have to be careful because driftwood can lower your pH which wouldn't be good for any of the fish your getting since they all prefer a pH of around 8.0.

also, create a couple wide shallow caves for the Synos. You can do this by using a rock with a wide flat bottom and propping it up with smaller rocks. Your substrate will cover most of the support rocks and you will have nice caves that your synos will love.

Also, is your tank cycled yet? You want to make sure that you fully cycle it before putting any fish in. You may also consider doing a painted background. If you want one now will be the last opportunity you will have to do it. Not everyone likes them though. Some people like to be able to see in from both sides.

Post pics when you finally get everything set up. I know it can be a long process but its definitely worth not rushing it.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

creepy looking tree lol

thanks for helping him with the synos *tokyo*, he asked me but I have zero experience with them and cannot make any suggestion, i just knew they'd be a good option


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I don't have much experience with them either, but I've spent the past 3 months researching them. :lol:

When you can't afford something yet its always fun to research it until you can! :drooling: :thumb:

I just got my first multipunctata and they are amazing.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Any suggestions on the tank? Not the most impressive by no means but trying to focus on funtionality please be blunt... the shipment should be in by the end of the week.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

a lot of decor is personal taste, some like ornaments, some like natural, it's all up to you


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

In my opinion your going to want alot more cover in your tank. It may be alright for now if your getting juveniles, but if your getting mature fish you will want to add it before they arrive.

Your going to have alot of fish in there for that size tank, you want to give them as many hiding spots as you can possibly fit. I mean literally stacking rock up to the top if you can. Its much more important to have small crevices and holes than to have large caves like you have in your log. The tighter the hole is the more comfortable the cichlid will feel. My male Aulonocara jacobfreibergi has a crevice that he can only stick his face in, but thats where he goes when he wants to hide. He just sits in the corner with his head jammed between two rocks. Its pretty funny to see.

I don't mean this is what all cichlids want, but Mbuna love to squeeze between rocks. If you take a look at their natural habitat you will mostly just see alot of rocks and boulders. In fact heres a photo of the taiwan reef where saulosi come from.(courtesy of Trigger, here on CF)










Here are a few of examples of 29g tanks that have good setups for what your going to be keeping. I got them from the "Your Tanks" section of CF. They all use rock, but you can use whatever you want. The important thing is to have alot of tight areas that the fish can squeeze into to feel secure.

The last one is actually a 38g tank, but its one of my favorite saulosi tanks that I've seen, so I thought I'd include it.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

thanks for the help!


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

No problem, good luck with your fish!

Keeps us posted!

oh, and i know I already mentioned this, and your probably already aware. But I feel like theres no harm in mentioning it again. You need to make sure your tank is fully cycled before you add any fish. Here's a good link if your not completely familiar with this concept.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/fishless_cycling.php


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Yea i had the fish i mentioned in there for a little while and had no problems.. I need to get a kit today to make sure its still good to go once they get here.

what are some things to keep in mind once i put them in and the following weeks after?... how many times do you test PH water hardness and things of that sort?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I don't test pH or water hardness very often, but when putting new fish in a tank I'll check my ammonia, nitrites and nitrates at least every other day if not every day. Probably for around a week.

Acclimating your fish will be important too. I have to go to work, so I don't have time to get into it right now, but I'm sure someone will be able to post some info for you. Or else i'll post more wen I get home.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

Latest one the tank...


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Its a good start, but you still may want more caves/crevices for the fish to hide in. I find that it is difficult to create good caves using slate. It also can be harmful to the fish if the bump up against the sharp corners that some pieces have. But alot of people do use it successfully.

You could start with this setup, but keep extra decorations on hand so that you can make more caves if you need to.

Also, you may want to move the tank out of direct sunlight or put a heavy curtain up. Direct sunlight isn't going to hurt the fish in most situations, but it will encourage algae growth. So you will most likely end up with a very green tank and alot of extra maintenance.


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## TheEdoubleDIE (Apr 25, 2010)

noted appriciate that.


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## poseidons minions (Dec 1, 2009)

30g to small for malawies 55 is minimum


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