# Julidochromis Malleri Sick?



## bunniesfrostypot (Jul 1, 2008)

I have some african cichlids from malawi. I just bought 4 babies and they died. No biggie, until i notice a momma with babies in her mouth. The next thing i notice is none of my fish eating. I mean like none of them. And now her mouth is empty shes acting weird not swimming right. So i treated them with maracide and maroxy which helped last time. They arnt getting better. I added melafix and a biological tank starter, cuz i just moved and had to pretty much refill the whole tank. So now, OMG there are little white worms on the glass and im just so worried they are my babies and i dont want to lose anymore, Any info will be so helpful.!!!!!!!! Please and Quick!


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## gordonrp (Mar 23, 2005)

Whoa.... too much too soon.

What are your water parameters? Have you tested the water?

Sounds like you are adding way too many chemicals to your tank, I would do a 50% water change with dechlorinated tank watr at the correct temperature and stop adding those treatments until you know what is wrong.

Your fish can go for a couple of weeks without eating before dying, they may not be eating because they are stressed.

Melafix is for torn fins and serious wounds.


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## bunniesfrostypot (Jul 1, 2008)

i didnt test my water. i only have once when they were sick last time. Our city water is naturally very hard. I was only adding water conditioner when i did water changes, and i check my ph and its always good. Like i said melafix should work better. I think ima get my water checked. What the heck are the worms, I know im overfeeding cuz they arent eating a bite but i still feed. i havnt done a change cuz today is the last of the 5 day maracide treatments. and last time that stuff really workd. Any help like the worms, not eating? I mean my fish eat. The babys gone its just all so weird!


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

The worms sound like nematodes and shouldn't do any harm, they feed on the extra food floating around the tank. They can be removed by scraping the glass and doing water changes but takes a while. Sounds like you may have a mini cycle going on, the melafix may kill the bacteria you added. All the meds may not be needed. 
I'd go with Gordonrp's suggestion right now, worry about the worms later.


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## gordonrp (Mar 23, 2005)

bunniesfrostypot said:


> i didnt test my water. i only have once when they were sick last time.


Get a test kit, and check the ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites. If you tank is cycled I bet your nitrates are way high (from the over feeding). This can be solved with 50% water changes once per day until the nitrates are below 20ppm. You need to test the water more often.



bunniesfrostypot said:


> I know im overfeeding cuz they arent eating a bite but i still feed.


Stop over feeding them, you're adding waste to the tank which is worsening water quality which is making your fish sick. Don't feed them for a day, feed them a tiny amount the next day, if they don't eat, don't feed them for another day.



bunniesfrostypot said:


> 5 day maracide treatments.


Why have you added any medications? The best treatment for sick fish is better water quality / more water changes (without stressing them, make sure the new water is a good temperature and dechlorinated before adding to the tank).

I think if you stop medicating, do a 50% water change now, don't feed for 24 hours, do another 50% water change the next day, try feeding a tiny amount... then you'll start making some progress.

Test the water and let us know the nitrates, nirItes, and ammonia levels....

:thumb: :fish:


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## bunniesfrostypot (Jul 1, 2008)

i tested the water at the pet store and she said the ammonia is a little high but a few 20% water changes should work. I got the worms under more control. i did a probably 35% change and cleaned the glass. All my fish look much better except the girl who was holding. She now swims at the top of the tank and swims like she is seriously nuts. Back and forth with her body twiching uncontrolably, and today i noticed a few while patches on her head and side. So im just going to keep cleaning my water.


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## bunniesfrostypot (Jul 1, 2008)

Alright I have noticed a pattern.
All my fish that die are the same breed of fish. Pseudotropheus cichlid

http://www.aqua-fish.net/imgs/fish/powd ... rofile.jpg

That looks like my fish but is not. I knw they are going to die if i cant fix this. They are the only two swimming crazy and flashing and have white stuff, Why them and not the rest!!!!!!

I have 2 honduran red tips (south american) 
3 red jewel
mango pleco
rhino pleco
reg. pleco
And 3 Julidochromis Maleri a breeding pair and baby

Why are only 2 of them sick? Why cant i keep these kind of fish alive?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

What size tank is this?

From the stocklist, I am not surprised you are having problems. These fish shouldn't all be housed together under the best of circumstances. 

It sounds like your fish have ich from the stress. At this point, I'm afraid to advise you to add any more meds to the tank, so you need to read the article on ich in the link below and begin the salt and heat treatment.

You're going to need to purchase your own test kits and monitor the ammonia, nitrite, nitrates and ph and do water changes as necessary.

It also sounds like you need to cut back on your feeding somewhat.

In reality, the move and all those meds along with poor water quality have probably caused your problems, but this stock list is also going to be problematic. It's bound to be a high stress tank, no matter how large it is.


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## bunniesfrostypot (Jul 1, 2008)

My tank is 55 gal. and all my fish are small, i think the only adults are the malleri. And *** been doin water changes . NO more meds. This all seems to happen only when i add new fish, Like the four babies that just died. So im not goin to add any more fish. My fish do not seem stressed. A lot of ppl told me that i shouldnt have these fish. The most aggresive fish in my tank are my hondurans and they are fine chasing eachother. My 3 jewels are inseperable, My malleri family are always together. and in my 55 gal tank i have more rocks than i probaly need but i wanted every single fish to have its own home. I watch these guys like they are my kids. I know you warn me against it but i love my tank.


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## bunniesfrostypot (Jul 1, 2008)

Oh yeah my hondurans are also full sized


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## gordonrp (Mar 23, 2005)

Ammonia should never be present, your tank probably isn't cycled yet. Keep up with the daily water changes, and get a test kit. Soon you should notice the ammonia go to 0ppm (where it needs to stay), your nitrites spike for a bit, and then be turned to nitrates.

If you've not researched the water/chemical cycle I would do so now, buy a test kit, they explain how it all works....

ammonia in the water will kill your fish, make them sick, and swim erratically (burns their gills).

:thumb:


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Sounds like you've definitely got a water quality problem here and having the tank stocked with incompatible species doesn't help either.

You mentioned one of the fish having white patches. _Are they patches or do they look more like grains of salt?_ You'd do well to follow Kim's advice and check out the Ick article. The pictures and descriptions in the article will help you figure out if you are dealing with ick, ( a parasite). If it's white patches then its most likely a bacterial infection.

What are you using for a declorinator? It's really important that you're using a good quality declorinator, (such as Prime or Amquel Plus), when you're doing more frequent water changes and battling ammonia and nitrite. 
It's quite possible that your fish are flashing because of ammonia and/or nitrite poisoning.

My advice: 
>Get a good quality declorinator if you don't already have one. 
>STOP feeding the fish! Fish can go for weeks without food, no problem. 
>Do daily partial water changes of 30-50% using the declorinator at the maximum dosage recommended on the label
>Add Aquarium salt at the rate of 1 tablespoon per five gallons. (This will help detoxify nitrite as well as benefit your fish in other ways). Disolve the salt first and add it slowly over several hours time. Maintain this salt level throughout all water changes. 
>Siphon the gravel. 
>Check your filter's media: make sure there's not a build up of waste or uneaten food. If there is, rinse it out in a bucket of tank water.

Robin


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## bunniesfrostypot (Jul 1, 2008)

the white patches i have had in my tank before. Its fuzz looking i fixed it with the maracide and maroxy which *** already given them. I ended that 5 day treatment about three days ago. 2 days ago i added a dose of Melafix. I use stress coat when needed for fins or a water change. I plan on doing a change today. (when i say change, its really a cleaning of gravel which i clean til about 30% of my water is gone) I havent fed the fish for about 5 days. I have never used salt and im afraid to becuz the lack of knowledge. I know cichlids like the salt. I have 2 whisper filters both for a 40 gal tank, my tank is 55 gals. Do i need new filters. Mine come with carbon, and i just take the whole filter out while medicating. Do i just need new filters? I dont know what to do. Only the 2 fish are flashing swimming near the top erratically, twitching. They are the only ones with fuzz. the rest are fine eating off the bottom the rocks the glass being normal no flashing no fuzz.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

When you are medicating you should remove the cartridges, cut them open with a razor and shake the carbon out of it, then return the cartridge to it's slot in the filter. This way you won't be losing your biological and mechanical filtration while you medicate. The reason you don't want the carbon in there is that depending on how old it is it can absorb the medication.

StressCoat is not always the best choise for declorinating if you have chloramines added to your water. A quick call to your local water company will tell you if they add chloramines. Doing water changes with water that has chloramines can seriously stress your fish if you're not using the right declorinator.

Don't be afraid of the salt! Just make sure to use Aquarium Salt from the fish store or get either Kosher or Pickling salt from the grocery store. You want salt that has no additives.

Maracide is for parasites. Not sure if that's what you're dealing with here. Your description of fuzz makes me think its bacterial or fungal. The Maroxy is for fungal and bacterial infections but if it's not working then you might want to try treating the fish with a combination of Maracyn and Maracyn 2, Kanamycin, Furon 2 or Triple Sulfa. I'd give the fish a few days off of meds and just focus on the water changes.

Robin


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## gordonrp (Mar 23, 2005)

Stress coat should be fine as a water conditioner IMO

"Stress Coat instantly removes chlorine and heavy metals such as copper and zinc from tap water. Stress Coat also removes chloramines by breaking the chlorine-ammonia bond."


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## bunniesfrostypot (Jul 1, 2008)

Ok now! I went to the Pet Store. I Bought new filters with no carbon, and added them. I bought aquarium salt, and added only 2 tablespoons becuz they have been through so much. I will add a little more the next few days. I also bought this stuff the guy suggested API Fungus Cure it says add one whole packet for every 10 gallons. Ok mine is 55 gal thats 5 packages. I added a pinch from one and my aquarium turned green. I prolly added 3/4 of one package only. Im scared to add to much at once again. It seems to be working already. I also bought some crushed coral, I didnt add it yet. I dont want all crushed coral but i think i might add like 3 cups to what i already have. Does this all sound ok lol!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

gordonrp said:


> Stress coat should be fine as a water conditioner IMO
> 
> "Stress Coat instantly removes chlorine and heavy metals such as copper and zinc from tap water. Stress Coat also removes chloramines by breaking the chlorine-ammonia bond."


gordonrp check out the declorinator article linked below. I believe the problem with Stress Coat and other declorinators like it that claim to deal with chloramines is that once it breaks the chlorine-ammonia bond it does not bind the 'free' ammonia and this is stressful and harmful to the fish.

*bunniesfrostypot:*

I can understand you're not wanting to medicate your fish but if I understand you correctly you added 3/4 of a packet rather than 5 full packets and that won't be much help to them. Probably the water changes are what's helping your fish if you are seeing improvement. Why don't you hold off on putting anymore medication in for at least a day and see if your fish continue to improve? If you notice that the fuzzy areas are spreading then you should medicate ASAP.

That's fine on the salt. At low dosages it should still help to detoxify nitrite. If you work it up to the amount I suggested it may help prevent the spread of any bacteria by preventing it from attaching to the fish. Improving water movement will also help in this respect.

Did you leave the old filters running on the tank? You should for at least the next three weeks to give the new filters a chance to build up some benefical bacteria. Four filters on a 55 gallon will give you PLENTY of water movement!! 8)

Make sure you've given the existing substrate a really good siphoning before you put the crushed coral on top of it. Otherwise you could have a build up waste and that can lead to other problems. Ideally you don't want the substate any deeper that 4-5 inches.

Robin


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## bunniesfrostypot (Jul 1, 2008)

My female Julidochromis Malleri is acting a bit strange witch isnt hard for these fish. Well i have noticed a small piece of white it looks like a tiny piece of white poo on her rectum, and shes starting to go to the bottom and then float up to the top me the filtration. She and her family are always at the bottom usually, sometime swimming upright, which would concern me with other fish but not these? Am i paranoid?


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## bunniesfrostypot (Jul 1, 2008)

thanks so much and actually they have stopped twitching, still labored breating and a couple shimmies, but on my girl she had a big white spot on her head which seems to have fallen off or something only a tiny piece remains. And i added the empty filters, i never changed my two filters just the actual filter lol im almost confused


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Whisper filters are the worse filters on the market, IMO. Having two filters that only filtrate up to 40G on a 55G tank is skimping it, especially if these two filters are Whispers.

Robin has given excellent advise as far as medicating the tank, but I just want to make sure you understand that your stock choices are going to lead to a stressed tank, if they aren't already. The julies being paired off could be the start of that stress, but if those jewels should pair off and spawn, you will have huge issues.

A stressed tank is a sick tank, and rarely does the person who stocked that tank witness the problems with aggression. :wink:

I believe you are referring to replacing "filter cartridges" rather than the filters themselves.

I would not make any changes in the substrate of the tank until I get this situation under control and get better filtration on the tank. Crushed coral tends to pack a bit tighter than some substrates and you're going to need really good filtration on the tank before you add that, IMO.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

bunniesfrostypot, it does sound as if something has happened to this fish, but once again, your stock list is so questionable that you cannot rule out aggression. What you are describing sounds like it may be a swim bladder injury, and since you said these guys were already breeding and housed in a 55G with jewels and various other species, an injury is very possible.

I know that you do not think there are aggression problems in the tank, but it sounds like it may be time to reconsider.

The best thing to do at this point is remove this fish to a hospital tank so that you can give her time to heal. If it is a swim bladder injury, daily water changes and the peace and "quiet" in the other tank may aid her in recovering. However, returning any fish to this main tank once you have to remove them will be difficult.

If it's not a swim bladder injury, we're really going to have to wait for further symptoms to decide what it is. The only other things that come to mind with the symptoms we have to deal with right now are possible bloat or organ failure. Either of these problems could be due to the high stress tank, or the poor filtration with the Whisper filters.

It's really time to make some serious changes. :thumb:


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## bunniesfrostypot (Jul 1, 2008)

I am heartbroken. I really just dont know what to do. My female malleri died. I cried for hours. I felt bad for her family and mate. Now her mate died, But their baby is alive all by himself now in a tank with 3 jewels and 2 hondurans. I took out the 2 Sick ones and one died, but the other is still here, in a hospital tank. Im so sad my fish really are the ones taking the fall for my mistakes and i just dont know what to do. Should i buy one of the malleri's brothers or sisters so he had a companion? Should i just leave it alone? I just want to do whats best and i dont want them or i to be sad.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Please do not add anymore fish to this tank until you decide what you want to keep.

You really need to read up on the species that you have and make decisions accordingly.

These are aggressive fish with different water, dietary and spawning/behavioural needs.

If you don't make an attempt to learn about the species you are keeping and just replace the fish you've lost, your poor fish will be the ones to suffer the consequences, as you've already seen.


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