# The low down on curviceps



## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

Our LFS has had some curviceps that keep catching my eye when I walk in. I've seen photos of them on the web, and I'm definitely curious.

How are they personality-wise?

What kind of gallonage per pair is needed for them to be "happy"... not just "alive".

How would they do with a pair of severums (one large male, one teeny but hopefully female) in a 75g tank?

Thanks!

-Ryan


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I once had a pair in a heavily planted 30 gallon. I liked them quite a lot, but they were extremely shy and got outcompeted for food by the tetras. I was constantly overfeeding the tank trying desperately to get them to eat. I eventually gave up and re-homed them. I might try again some time in the future as I thought they were incredibly cute. Others have had better experiences than I. I do not know how they'd fare in the set-up you mentioned.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I haven't been able to find the real curviceps, but have their closest realative, _Laetacara dorsigera_. I keep mine with pike cichlids and they do fine. *Blairo* keeps his with a large rotkeil sev and thus far no issues either. Mine were shy to start with, but did finally settle in and will even beg like larger cichlids now.

A pair of sevs might be tough though, a pair can claim a whole 75 gallon. But with the size differance, there would be plenty of ways to arrange driftwood and such. Until the sevs pair there, they should be fine.

While curviceps have been bred as a pair in 10 gallons, for total happiness I'd say a 20 gallon long would be the smallest I'd have them in myself.


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

Thanks for your thoughts!

They *are* really cute. I guess the etymology of _Laetacara_ means "happy acara", which I can totally appreciate.

These are definitely_ curviceps_... as far as I can tell. They lack the hallmark red belly of _dorsigera_. They just don't seem to be selling at the LFS. Kind of sad to see them there.

Our one male sev is a pretty peaceful one, and I do have a spare 29g if things didn't work out.

Thanks!
-Ryan


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Well all my dorsigera were bought as curviceps, the red belly usually is only there when breeding. If the rear edging of the dorsal fin is white/blue they are curviceps. If it's red/orange it's dorsigera. They can be kept the same way though.


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

dwarfpike said:


> Well all my dorsigera were bought as curviceps, the red belly usually is only there when breeding. If the rear edging of the dorsal fin is white/blue they are curviceps. If it's red/orange it's dorsigera. They can be kept the same way though.


I'll take a closer look tonight. I definitely recall some red fringing... so these probably are dorsigera.

Thanks so much.

-Ryan


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

No problem ... we tend to see more dorsigera because they like harder water, and do well in our florida fish farms where curviceps prefer more acidic and do well in southeast asian fish farms.

Remember the first half of the dorsal edging will be orangish on curviceps too, it's towards the end where it changes. And it's easier to describe it than see it in the LFS.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Yeah! a post I feel happy responding to.

G'day *RyanR*,

You can tell by my signature what I keep.

First thing I'll address. Curviceps or Dorsigera.

As *dwarfpike* already mentioned, it appears many LFS in the States say they have Curviceps for sale, when in fact they turn out to be Dorsigera. Not all Doesigera have red throats/bellys. There are quite a few locational variants found throughout Southern Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Bolivia. Where as Curviceps are found in the Amazon Basin, mainly in the Rio Tapajos, or locals near SantarÃ©m.

The easiest way I have found to tell the difference between the two species is by the coloured stripe that runs along the edge of the dorsal fin. Dorsiger have a red trim all the way along thier dorsal fin, where as with Curviceps the first half of the trim is orange and the second half is blue.

Also both species have a band that runs along thier lateral line. With Curviceps, this band runs from just behind the eye, all the way along thier side to thier tail. However on Dorsigera, the band only runs half way, and stops at thier caudal spot.

I don't have real good photo's of my pairs, but you should be able to see the dorsal stripe and the lateral bar on my female Curviceps. The second photo is of my female dorsigera in breeding colours, you can just make out the trim on her dorsal fin (I know it appears blue, but it isn't, trick of the camera ?!?), but the lateral bar is hard to distinguish becuase of how dark her vertical bars are.

Female Laetacara









Female Dorsigera









As for tank size, the minimum I'd be happy keeping a pair in, would be a 20 gallon long. I only keep one pair in each of my tanks, but that is becuase they are in small community tanks, with other tetras, apistogramma, and panaque sp. L397.

*hollyfish2000* did mention that they can be shy. My Curviceps are more timid than my Dorsigerus, but not overly so. I have had a pair that were amazingly shy, and rarely left thier little patch of planted tank, but my current pair are fine as long as they aren't startled.

There are 20 lemon tetras in my Curviceps tank, and my Curviceps aren't out competed for food. However if you wish for them to breed, I would strongly reccommend against having any tetras in the tank. Tetras are most effective fry eaters in small tanks. I would reccommend smaller hatchetfish (I have marbled hatchets in with my Dorsigera) and pencilfish, these fish just aren't as effective as most tetra species. Remember, Piranahs are a tetra.

Hope this all helps.


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

Thanks, DFF! 

Looks like these are indeed most likely _dorsigera_...

Is there any way to roughly figure out males vs. females? Should I aim for a 1:1 ratio?

I think we're going to go for a pair... and maybe do some tetras... maybe... we'll see

-Ryan


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day Ryan,



> Is there any way to roughly figure out males vs. females? Should I aim for a 1:1 ratio?


Laetacara form bonded pairs, and once mated stick to each other like glue. It's not to easy to tell males from females in the LFS if they are juveniles. Adult males are generally larger, my curviceps male is about a third larger than than the female. However my dorsigera female is almost the same size as the male. In general males have longer fin extensions than females.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

You're going to enjoy them bud.

I don't know where all this shyness comes from, maybe it is more apparent in the curviceps but you certainly wouldn't call my dorsigera shy....

Last night I was taking photos and when I do that I drop in a few flakes as this coaxes the fish up towards the surface and in better range of my overhead flash. Well, a nice big juicy bit of flake was spotted in the middle of the tank, from one end by my 7.5" Rotkeil, from the other by my tiny little dorsigera.... Well they both charged for it full steam ahead and the little Laetacara didn't have any intention of slowing down regardless of this monster coming right at him, he swiped the flake right from the severum jaws just as he went to lunge.

Considering the Laetacara would fit in his mouth twice over, I wouldn't call mine shy! As we speak the two of them are charging around ploughing through the school of Bolivians, nibbling at anything inanimate and chasing air bubbles on the surface. Very entertaining. They ignore and are ignored by the other tank mates.

I'd recommend getting more than just a 1:1 mix if you can afford it - I didn't have too much choice so I had to and unfortunately I suspect I have two males/females (still young), hopefully not, but I'd still have much preferred a group of 6 of them and then allowed a pair to form from that. :thumb:

Here's a dorsigera looking a bit paler - for reference, this is prob how they appear in the LFS, you can see easily what Peter is referring to in his explanation:









Here's one looking a bit happier, these shots were taken shortly after introducing them to the tank (within 48 hours) and you can see the colours coming out a bit more, as well as the banding. I have seen my dominant Laetacara display a very pink breast with the back half going almost black, very cool, I can't wait to see how they pop with breeding dress.









Keep us informed!


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

Thanks so much, Blairo! *Beautiful* fish! :thumb:

Indeed, that first picture is exactly like the LFS's Laetacara. Definitely dorsigera.

Much to the wife's dismay :lol:, the spare tanks have come out of the closet and are online for quarantine duty. Hopefully I'll buy four dorsigera in the next day or two. 

Thanks, all! Stay tuned...
-Ryan


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hopefully they grow up to look something like this.

Female









Male









Dirty Dancing...


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Heh ... another one for the club *DFF* ... we still need to trick *Dutch Dude* though ...

and yours are deffinately from a prettier river than mine!


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

dwarfpike said:


> Heh ... another one for the club *DFF* ... we still need to trick *Dutch Dude* though ...
> 
> and yours are deffinately from a prettier river than mine!


Ruurd will change up his Bolivian tank sooner or later to include some, you just know he will.

As for which river mine come from, the Importer has no idea, so I guess I'll never know. All I've been told is that they are wild caught. Whether they are or not doesn't concern me. But they do look good in person. I've yet to get a photo of them that does them justice, but these last three come close.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Peter...... nice. (Jazz club nice).

:lol:

How old are yours bro?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hey Blair,

I'm not sure how old they are. I've had them for about 3 months now. They were young adults when I bought them. The male is app. 2 & 3/4 inches TL, while the female is 2 & 1/2 inches TL. So not very big at all. I'll guess that they're less than 12 months old.

Those photos were taken tonight when I got home from work. I expect they'll be guarding eggs by the time I go to work tomorrow afternoon.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Ah cool so almost twice the size of my little nippers! You can see in yours how the caudal fin is much larger and better developed, I love how slight these fish stay, very cool. It's like they reach pretty much this full body size quite early and then that caudal and pelvic finnage just keeps going, changes the proportions of them entirely!

Well now that you've posted those I can't let my little blighters feel out done :lol:, so I'm now going to post a recent pic so you can see how they're settling in. Mine haven't figured out the whole idea of breeding yet, they just follow each other around and occasionally have a little chase.










I reckon he's got potential, if he turns out anything like yours I'll be a happy chap. The pinky/purple is really present all the time now and just pops when they get excited, I honestly have to say that they are potentially a new favourite. I love my Bolivians but these guys are just freakin' awesome. Peter, what camera are you using for pictures? Can you set it for shutter priority? Can you generally control it manually? I want to see more pics of your little guys, they're too cool!


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Blair I think yours will be alot better looking than mine when they grow up. Mine have almost no purple to red in them, other than the fins.

As for camera, it's a cheap Kodak EasyShare C530. Shutter priority or control?!? :lol:


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

:lol:

Thanks bud - you should try shooting on sport setting (the one that looks like a stick dude running) if you don't already, that will usually prioritise for shutter speed.

That camera shoots at ISO 100-200 so if you can get to settings try and set it up so that the ISO is the highest number (not always the case but in this instance we want a quicker ISO - film speed as it will capture more "light"). Ie ISO 200. You might not have control of this.

Try and get the f-number as low as possible, this is the aperture and controls how much light is let in, lower numbers = shallow depth of field but lots of light let in, high numbers = deep field of focus but less light let thought (very generalised). There is an exposure compensation thing, that's probably it but some weird techno wizardry as you increase the number to let more light in :? :
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/ ... -path=7553

Then you want the shutter speed as high as possible to freeze the capture = 1/30th is slower than 1/60th which is slower than 1/100th etc. It is reflective of speed in terms of hundredths of a second. If not I'd just shoot in sport with an altered "exposure compensation" to let in more light, allowing the shutter to operate faster.

 Sorry Ryan!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I can honestly (and with much jealousy) say yours are the best colored dorsigera I have seen in print, in person, or on the web *DFF*! :thumb:

Ryan - all four of the dwarf _Laetacara_ are beautiful, so it wouldn't really matter which one you end up with. The two midsized ones could be called chromatically challenaged though.


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

blairo1 said:


> Sorry Ryan!


 :lol: No problem! I love digital camera talk too! :thumb:

The 20 gallon quarantine tank is fully online, and hopefully I'll pick up the fishies after work tomorrow night! 

-Ryan


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

Yay! 

I picked up four dorsigera last night. We aimed for two males and two females, but only a higher power knows what we really wound up with. :lol:

They're hanging out in the 20g quarantine tank for a couple weeks. Not shy by any measure.

Thanks to all for the encouragement!

Stay tuned...

-Ryan


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## Hubbynz (May 10, 2008)

wow they are stunning deadfish


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

:thumb: Good stuff Ryan.

Here's hoping!


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## Hubbynz (May 10, 2008)

are these guys similair to golden dwarfs?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hubbynz said:


> are these guys similair to golden dwarfs?


Haven't heard of _Golden Dwarfs _before. Could they possibly be Golden Rams?


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## Hubbynz (May 10, 2008)

DeadFishFloating said:


> Hubbynz said:
> 
> 
> > are these guys similair to golden dwarfs?
> ...


The LFS has some dwarfs labelled as Golden Dwarfs...they are not rams but kind of look similair tot hese guys but could also be......nannacara anomala but I'm not sure.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Yup, golden dwarf acara is one of the common names for _Nannacara anomala_. And that pic deffinately appears to be one of the _Nannacara_ species, most like _N. anomala_.


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