# Angel info for community tanks



## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

the stock will be..

2-4 german blue rams
1-2 angel fish
school of 12 neon tetras
oto cats?
Fix my stock and tell me how muck germans should i get,and how many angels should i get?


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## Caius (Apr 17, 2005)

I'm no expert on these species but...

Maybe stick with one angel. Two in a 30 gallon may lead to territory issues unless they're a pair, and if they are a pair then they may become aggressive towards the other fish. If you're not set on angels, you could ditch them in favor of increasing the tetra schools.

I think 2 pairs of blue rams ould be ok in a 30, but be ready to remove some in the event you get one pair that harasses the others. They're usually not too bad, though.

I know there are reports of full grown angels eating neons, and I think there are reports of them eating (or trying to eat) otos. If you do skip the angels, you could either increase the neon school size, or have two smaller schools such as 7 neons and 7 rummy noses. Or, 7 neons and 5-6 smaller growing cory cats.

Good luck :thumb:


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

What happened to the 10G heavily planted tank you were talking about earlier?

What are the dimensions of this tank?


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## Caius (Apr 17, 2005)

edit: oops, wrong thread. Please disregard.


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## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

Caius pretty much says it all. The angels will probably eat the neons eventually, you could however go with their larger cousin the cardinal tetra. A 30 gallon IMO is only large enough for 1 angel, getting 2 could cause some problems further down the road.....besides it is best to get at least 3-4 angels otherwise one will always get picked on.

And for algae eaters, honestly I have found my oto's to be almost useless.......but my siamese algae eaters have been awesome. And the siamese algae eaters (looks like a flying fox but isn't a flying fox) .....do not mistake them for chinese......will grow to be about 4", are peaceful, will eat more types of algae, and are better tank mates for angels. And yes sometimes we do get an algae outbreak in our planted tanks, I have one right now that my 4 SAE's I bought recently, are cleaning up nicely.

Might I also suggest getting a bottom type feeder fish for a cleanup crew? I currently have large 3" ghost shrimp......I am just as surprised as you that they survived long enough to grow large enough not to get eaten haha. My ghost shrimp do an awesome job with cleaning up the extra food from the bottom of the tank, so I don't get any rotting down there.

Now as for the rams, you can possibly have 2 males, but honestly I do not highly recommend having 2 males in only a 30 gallon. I would go with 1 male and 2 females if I were you, then once you have the male pair off with a female, you could remove the other female.


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

heres my new stock and assesorys

5 cories
1 angel
4 german blue rams
assorted tetras
2 bolivian rams
4 cabodia plants
4 myro-red plants
2 dwarf hair grass plants
flat rocks


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

woops it is a 35 gallon would that change anything? :-?


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## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

Lol, it will change a bit, but you probably won't see much of a difference. The stock list sounds pretty good, just make sure your tetras will be ones that tend to not have skinnier bodies, rather rounder or taller bodies to prevent ever being eaten by the angel.

Have you thought of getting more variety of plants for your tank? If you want advice on plants just ask and there should be someone who can answer all your questions


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

1 Angel, 4 Blue Rams and 2 Bolivians in a 35 gallon isn't going to work in my opinion.

The Bolivians will need to be a male and female or there will be continuous quarrels and therefore poor health between them, which means inevitably you will end up with them spawning, in a tank that size when they do they sure as heck wont tolerate two pairs of Blue rams. As an example - in my 55 gallon I kept ONE pair of Blue Rams (short term) with my Bolivians and although the Blue Rams survived and even spawned, they certainly weren't even close to the sort of vibrant health they displayed when properly accommodated for - higher temps (30C), even softer water (KH1, GH3), low pH (4.5), the sort of parameters that the majority of your other fish won't tolerate.

The Blue Rams suffered almost continuous harassment and ended up spending 90% of their time in the mid to upper water column, this is not natural and clearly is a result of being driven to accept that as their new habitat. Fortunately for me it was only short term as I set up their tank and soon transferred them. It really is pointless IMO - keeping the Blue Rams in compromised conditions just has them looking rubbish compared to the full beauty that comes out if you properly accommodate for them, forget the added stress of being hounded all day by Bolivians. That was in a 55 with one pair of Blues and one pair of Bolivians, very densely planted and aquascaped to maximise territory, a 35 gallon isn't going to give them the room they need to escape a pursuing fish, not to mention the lack of available space for them to be able to at least adapt to the mid-upper water column. They will be stressed and eventually this will lead to poor health/early death in them, I've seen it so many times in peoples tanks.

If you still want to compromise the Blue rams, you'd be better with two pairs of them and the Angel, this way at least the only real compromise is on parameters, which can be done by all means, but don't expect them to be quite as vibrant or long lived as they could be.

If you don't really want to compromise a fish then you'd be better with a group of 5 Bolivians and the Angel in that tank - 1m and 4f would be an easy mix, 2m 3f would spice things up a bit but would require closer watching in case of excessive aggression/territoriality.

Corydoras are fine, I normally go for a group of 6 of them in tanks 30 gallons +.
Crossocheilus siamensis truly are the king of algae eaters IME, they trump just about any other algae eater with their voracious appetite and bottomless stomach. Happily spending their day working over every inch of your plants and nibbling up algae.

I would recommend something along these lines:

1 Angel
5 Bolivians (mix as mentioned above)
6 _Corydoras arcuatus_
1 _Crossocheilus siamensis_ (once older they will start to fight in smaller tanks so if you go for more than one be ready to remove the others as and when).
10 Rummynose tetra/Halrequin rasbora/Red eye tetra
3 Marbled hatchet fish.
<10 Amano shrimp.

That would make for a fascinating, diverse and interesting tank which, if well aquascaped, would provide for the needs of all of those fish, creating a healthy and happy tank in both the short and long term.

Alternately:

1 Angel
4 Blue Rams (2m 2f or 1m 3f-I'd rather this one)
6 _Corydoras arcuatus_
1 _Crossocheilus siamensis_ 
10 Rummynose tetra
3 Marbled hatchet fish.
<10 Amano shrimp.

As for plants, take your pick, they're all pretty easy to grow IME and I don't do anything special:

*Plants:*
Most plants I split into the smaller groups, or separate individuals and plant them this way, gives them better space and chance at rooting well. Remember, they will fill out A LOT.

*Floating plants:*
Japanese Riccia
Salvinia Ariculata

*Back/Sides*:
Cyperus helferi
Echinodorus africanus
Hygrophila rosae Australis
Hygrophylia Polysperma
Ludwigian Natans
Hydrilla Verticiliata
Mayaca fluviatilis
Camboba Caroliana
Ludwigia Mullertii

*Mid:*
Cryptocoryne wendtii Green
Eleocharis vivipara
Vallisneria spiralis
Aponogeton Crispus
Rotala Macrandra
Rotala Indica

*Mid-to-front.*
Echinodorus rubra
Anubias barteri Nana
Anubias heterophylla
Bacopa Monnerii
Ludwigia Natans
Echinodorus Latifolius

*Foreground:*
Lilaeopsis novae - zelandiae
Ludwigia arcuata Requires pruning to create carpet effect.
Eleocharis Parvulus (Dwarf Hairgrass)
Sagittaria Natans


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I agree with blairo1 100%, jack lover.

You've never listed the dimensions of the tank, but under the best of circumstances I don't see how it could work long term.

Have you stocked with all these fish since posting your initial questions on Saturday?

Time to slow down again...


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

Hello all

I was wanting some koi angel info because if i setup a tank i want 1 koi angel.Here are some ?s

What plants do they like?
Do they like to be on botton of tank,middle,top?
Do they tolerate sand well?
Are they tolerant of other fish?
And do they like rocks and caves?
I want as many comments as possible ok thnx for reading/helpin out.


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

What plants do they like? 
I've never had problems with them and live plants. Should be able to plant as you wish.

Do they like to be on botton of tank,middle,top? 
They use all levels of the tank. They will even pick food from the bottom.

Do they tolerate sand well? 
No problem with sand

Are they tolerant of other fish? 
They will eat fish that are small enough to fit in their mouths. Avoid small tetras like neons.

And do they like rocks and caves? 
They like some cover to hide when they wish but rarely will go into caves.

I want as many comments as possible ok thnx for reading/helpin out.

We can make more suggestions once you tell us the size of the tank.


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

it's a 35 gallon


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I have two angel tanks and have them both planted heavily with swords, vals, crypts, java fern, anubias and a few other things. The vals and swords are perfect for angels as they provide "cover" all the way to the top of the tank. They look very graceful swimming among the tall leaves.

I have three kinds of tetras with my angels: pristella, black phantoms and rummynoses. All do well. I also have cories and an albino bristlenose pleco in each tank. Good luck!

My tanks are both "tall" so they do well for angels. A 35 gallon long might not be ideal, but it should work for a pair.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Rather than making loads of threads about the same tank, why not pose the same question in your main thread that will also allow those helping you to get the full picture..... Unless you don't like my last post to you because I'm telling you what you initially wanted can't be done. Otherwise poor folk like *hollyfish* advise you that a pair might potentially work without realising you want to keep a host of other Cichlids with them. You wont get the answers you want to hear, you'll get the answers that are based on what is best for the fish, that isn't always what you want to hear, but it's part of the hobby. A million different posts won't change that.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The two posts have been merged.

What happened to the other fish in the tank? I know you had a sick ram in this tank and we moved that thread to the illness folder.

blairo1 is right...When you make multiple posts regarding the same set up, it gets confusing. If you're talking about a different tank, that's another story altogether. But in your pms, you stated that you couldn't get anymore fish or tanks for the time being, so now I'm confused. :roll:


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

the rams are all hybrids with convicts so ya was kinda skitish but good now


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

:-?


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## marge618 (Mar 12, 2006)

blairo1 said:


> Rather than making loads of threads about the same tank, why not pose the same question in your main thread that will also allow those helping you to get the full picture..... Unless you don't like my last post to you because I'm telling you what you initially wanted can't be done. Otherwise poor folk like *hollyfish* advise you that a pair might potentially work without realising you want to keep a host of other Cichlids with them. You wont get the answers you want to hear, you'll get the answers that are based on what is best for the fish, that isn't always what you want to hear, but it's part of the hobby. A million different posts won't change that.
> 
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=


I too am finding that what I 'want to hear' and 'what is best for the fish' are often two different things. That seems to be the case more often when one takes an interest in a new species.

By the way, Blairo, could you comment on the amount of light needed for plants in your planting plan list.


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