# Will this Mix Work???



## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

Hello, i am new to the cichlid addiction. I have recently become hooked. I have a 55 Gallon tank and i want to go cichlid route all the way. Ofcourse there is a huge category as far as cichlids go. I want to know if i can make this tank work with these fish i have listed. Please excuse me if i do not use the correct scientific name. I am trying my best to become familiar.

2 X Jack Dempseys
2 X Green Terrors
4 X Jewel Cichlids ( idk if they are dwarfs or not, we will find out later)
3 x Yellow Labs- about 12 yellow labs growing in a 10 gallon tank.
3 x zebra kenyi - 1 female is on her 2nd litter of fry , 2nd kenyi is about inch size, 3rd kenyi is from my biggest zebra kenyis litter mixed with the yellow lab fry. still to small to mix in main tank.
3 x albino african cichlids
3 x aurutus cichlids
2 x pleco fishes
1 x bumble bee - i plan on buying 2 more at the least of these guys to have a school.

After doing research it seems like this mix is very crazy as i have south american cichlids with african cichlids but i have read through some post and have found it is possible to mix all cichlids as long as PH levels dont change often.

Please let me know what you think of this mix in this tank. I will decide what to do with my fishes after i read all the replies posted. 
Thank you for your input and happy holidays, happy new years


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

It is the kind of mix that I think could go badly pair shaped. But if this stuff works for you then go for it. No way would I keep lombardoi (or crabro) n that community tank though I have kept and bred lombardoi with urophthalmus (both happy in the same water) before now but then both fish can more than look after itself and I was short of tank space after a tank leak and over breeding young I did not want to cull. You may be the first to try such an outrageous mix, so who knows or could guess with any degree of success what will happen. So many potential problems and bizarre behavioural interactions and conflicting requirements. But then cichlids often concentrate there aggression on similar cichlids so for a time they sometimes ignore fish they could easily kill if they felt like it. Sometimes they do sometimes they do not for long periods. I would describe the tank as a ticking time bomb with a dodgy fuse that might not go off.

A bit like this mix that worked for a mate of mine. :lol: 








They didn't fear the Uarus


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## SupeDM (Jan 26, 2009)

Its hard to count the ways this will fail. But lets start with the most obvious other than water requirements. AGGRESSION!!! If the Dempsys are a pair and decide to spawn all others will die, If the auratus decide to spawn same thing. If the terrors spawn all will die. A 55 gallon tank is just way too small for this to have anything but a horrible ending.
I an not trying to lecture but these fish will live unhappy tortured lives then suffer a painfull untimely death. The ASPCA would freak out.


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

I agree, that is a disaster waiting to happen. The tank is too small for the green terrors alone and some would say it is too small for the jack dempseys alone. Jewels can get really nasty when they are breeding. The rest of your fish are mbuna, most of which are super aggressive. One male will likely decide one day he wants the whole tank and kill all the others one at a time. I would suspect the kenyi or aurutus. With a 55 gallon you are pretty much limited to 3 more docile species of mbuna.

Even if you could get them all to get along, the tank is too small to handle the load long term.


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

24Tropheus said:


> They didn't fear the Uarus


Love the picture :lol:


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## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

I just wanted to say thanks for all the honest relies. I will call the pet store and see if they are willing to take back the green terrors. The dempaeys I might also be able to return.

Would it be possible to keep one dempsey and 1 Green terror? Or 2 of either one. But a lot of people said two spawning dempseys will kill everything. Could I keep one dempsey or one terror?

These are the only fish I'm able to return. there might be 2 jewels that I can also return.

The reason I thought I could keep these fish is cause I was told they JD and GT don't grow more than 6 or 7 inchs.

Please gove me more feed back as to what I can do. I also have goldfish in the tank to serve as ditcher fish.


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## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

I was also told overcrowding the tank would work on limiting agressuon.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

Do you already have these?
3 x Yellow Labs- about 12 yellow labs growing in a 10 gallon tank.
3 x zebra kenyi - 1 female is on her 2nd litter of fry , 2nd kenyi is about inch size, 3rd kenyi is from my biggest zebra kenyis litter mixed with the yellow lab fry. still to small to mix in main tank.
3 x albino african cichlids
3 x aurutus cichlids
2 x pleco fishes
1 x bumble bee - i plan on buying 2 more at the least of these guys to have a school.

If so, you already have a tankfull of fish, with four or five species of mbuna, depending on what the albinos are. Three of the species are some of the most aggressive mbunas. Check out some of the recommended species mixes on this page, at least in terms of number of mbuna:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_55g.php

Quote from the library: "mbuna on the other hand need a bit more stringency to keep the tank relatively peaceful. Stay away from aggressive mbuna that may dominate a tank or upset the balance you're trying to achieve. Adding a _Melanochromis auratus_ or _Metriaclima lombardoi_ may be a fatal mistake at some point down the road."


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

I would not keep a single (alone) green terror in there. They get big and have deep bodies; the tank is simly to narrow for them to be comfortable. So I would say no to the green terror. You may get away with a pair of jacks (No africans though) or one jack and the jewels but I would not put a jack in a 55 either due to the width, but that is just me as others feel it is okay.

Either way, I would not mix any of the new world cichlids with the mbuna.

Mbuna would do well in this tank (without the new world cichlids) but not the species you have as they are very aggressive and will give you a headache with aggression.

The goldfish will most likely be a gonner soon.

Try to return everything and look at the cookie cutters here

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_55g.php

They are very helpful. Overstocking sometimes helps with mbuna to cut down aggression BUT it will not help if you have the wrong mix of fish. For example, two male kenyi will kill eachother if they are alone in the tank or there are 20 other fish in the tank.

Personally, I think you would get the most bang out of a 55 if you set up either a planted SA dwarf tank or a Tang community.


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## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks to everyone who gave fedback. I really appreciate your help. I will go to the store and return the green terrors today. I was really happy when i got them because i thought they would grow to live in my tank. I fully understand that my 55 gallon is to small.

Iam still looking for the receipt for the jack dempseys. I hope i can find it. If not i will be forced to sell them through craigslist.

If i remove the 2 green terrors and 2 jack dempseys. then will i have a liveable tank.?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

For some time yet but auratus crabro nor lombardoi are usually not happy or mix well long term in a 55g. Though well matched for aggression they each need a larger tank in a community long term.
Only fish to keep long term in a 55g community is the yellow labs Labidochromis caeruleus if pure as I would guess they are not as hybrid ones grow bigger and are far more aggressive and are far more common sold as yellow labs but there are a few other Mbuna you could keep with pure Labidochromis caeruleus long term in a 55g. Post a pic and we can tell you if they are pure or the usual hybrid stuff you get from LFSs.
Same goes for the albino guys depends on what mix they are some are real peaceful some are real terrors hard to say for sure.


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## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

Well for some reason I thought if I mixed a community tank with some chaser fishes I could have a few agressive fish. Because they would be able to hold there own in the tank.

I read some where on here that new word cichlids were. Mixed with Africans just fine.

Also where is the best place to get rocks to set up territory. I was told I could use any lanscai g rocks just be sure to boil the rocks in water for a hour to cure the rocks.


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## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

Well for some reason I thought if I mixed a community tank with some chaser fishes I could have a few agressive fish. Because they would be able to hold there own in the tank.

I read some where on here that new word cichlids were. Mixed with Africans just fine.

Also where is the best place to get rocks to set up territory. I was told I could use any lanscai g rocks just be sure to boil the rocks in water for a hour to cure the rocks.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

subaruwrb said:


> Well for some reason I thought if I mixed a community tank with some chaser fishes I could have a few agressive fish. Because they would be able to hold there own in the tank.
> 
> I read some where on here that new word cichlids were. Mixed with Africans just fine.
> 
> Also where is the best place to get rocks to set up territory. I was told I could use any lanscai g rocks just be sure to boil the rocks in water for a hour to cure the rocks.


Sure you can mix fish if you give them enough space but a 55g is pretty limiting long term.
Rocks are about the same they can if used well give fish a respite and divide up territories but they do not solve the basic basic problem of putting large aggressive when adult and breeding fish in a small tank and expecting them to do well long term.

Dunno where for you the best place to get rocks is but for me it is a nice country walk keeping my eyes open. Dunno but never boiled a rock in my life but maybe it helps in some cases, I just given em a hose down and a scrub with a wire brush.


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## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

So basicly the fault I did was trying to stick to many fish in my tank.

As well as getting Paris because when they meet is. When the problems come right?

What about the 4 jewel cichlids I got. Should I return 2 of them?


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

You can mix fish, but it has to be much more well-thought out than a single species tank. You can't just pick out a couple of each fish you like and throw them together :wink: Before you do it, people expect that you will read about their water quality requirements (pH, hardness, temperature), what they eat (carnivorous or vegetarian), how compatible they are with other species and their own species, how much tank space they need, and how large they get.

I know you don't want to hear this, but you should take all the jewel cichlids back, and probably the two plecostomus too, because they are just going to increase your bioload and you have too many fish and species in there. Like the guidelines say, you should aim for 2-3 species and get a few of each. If you take these back, you are left with 13 mbunas of 5 species:
3 x Yellow Labs
3 x zebra kenyi
3 x albino african cichlids
3 x aurutus cichlids
1 x bumble bee
I don't know what you plan on doing with all the fry. It's a manageable number, but the species mix is not ideal because you have three or four very aggressive species. It's too bad you don't have just the labs, because they could easily mix with some other beautiful mbuna.

"Aggression" makes it sound like you will just have an active and interesting tank, but it's a *************** to have fish beating on each other all the time, and stressed fish usually get sick sooner or later. Less aggressive fish will still chase and be super active, they just won't be killing each other  55 gallons sounds like a lot of tank until you start delving into the world of cichlids and African cichlids, unless you are willing to have dwarf species, which actually are just as feisty and interesting.

But, in the end, you can do what you want and learn as you go what works and what doesn't. My favorite cichlids have changed so many times over the years. It's a journey 8) We are just trying to help you not be discouraged by starting with a really difficult mix.


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## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

i thank you for your well written post. Very informative and not at all rude or discouraging. I really wish i could start all over and pick 3 or 4 species to have in my tank. Obviously i didnt do enought research before getting into this cichlid crave. My next shot at a new tank will be much more balanced.

I can return only 2 of the jewel cichdlis because the other 2 were purchased more than 14 days ago. Will i still be ok if i keep 2 jewels or what should i do?

What are the most aggressive fish i have in my tank? Bumble Bee and Aurutus and Kenyi?/


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

oh good, I didn't want to sound mean! we all start somewhere and there is a LOT to learn with hundreds of species. I put a bunch of aggressive Central American cichlids in my first tank, a 100-gallon, but it got so annoying to watch them fight. That was before the internet, so it was harder to know what would work, but still, we all learn and there is no such thing as perfect.

yes, those are your three most aggressive fish. Hard to know about the albinos, because we don't know what species they are.

Your mix will work for a while because the fish are young (I think). Once they become sexually mature, you may find certain fish hiding in the corners because they are getting hammered. You will want to pull those from the tank. Do you want to know what happens next? You keep getting more tanks!! :lol: As in, hey, I need another tank for these super-aggressive mbuna, so this tank can have just jewel cichlids. and oh, I need a hospital tank... , and man, I need a 100-gallon tank for those green terrors, etc. But lucky you, tanks on craigslist are dirt cheap, depending on where you live, and you can buy whole setups at great prices. My first "tank" was actually one of those molded black plastic ponds they make for gardens. I set it up with a waterfall using big rocks and the canister filter return, heaters, etc. and used it as a S. American community tank. I have another big stock tank here that I would consider using. So, there is always that option for a temporary fix.


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## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

I really appreciate your advice. The reason why i bought all these fish is becuase i was told as long as you introduce them young and small they should be ok.


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## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

So im guessing adding more bumble bee cichdlis would be a bad idea.

I was also considering putting in a Elecric Blue Zebra . I guess that would also be a bad idea considering i have the kenyi?/


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

well, you could maybe do an all-male tank of mbunas. I have no experience with it, but lots of people do it and that is where the overstocking will help. Most fish are most aggressive towards their own kind (competition for mates, etc.), but also fish of similar color and shape.

OK, so I thought of a good idea. Go to "Your Tanks" and search on the "Size" and put in "55." There will be tons of tanks, and you can look at the species lists and numbers that other people have. Keep in mind that many start out with a mix like yours of young fish, and end up with a different mix after they have tired of the ultra-aggressive fish. I don't know why, but it seems like every fish store sells those nasty mean species!!

Do a search on "saluosi" in the fish list--they are a super nice mbuna species where the male is blue striped, but the female is yellow. Only 4" too.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1

Metriaclima 'Msobo' is another that has blue/white males and yellow females
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=801

Those bumble bees get 8" long, which is HUGE for a 55 gallon, and since they are killers, you need to make sure that is what you want. 
There are really nice mbuna that are only 4-5 inches like Cynotilapia.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2626
Here is one that is 3.5" and looks like the bumble bee.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=698
You could have more fish if you kept smaller ones.

But if you are limited to the local fish store, then it is tough. Try the tank search though.


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

Think subtract not add :wink: After reading your posts I am pretty sure you bought your fish at a box store like petco or petsmart. Try to find a small fish store privately owned within an hours driving distance to your house. Call them up, tell them what you have and ask if they will give you store credit for your mistakes. You will have to eat a bit of your mistake but not as much as if one fish decides to kill everyone else one day! You will be really glad you did this in the end, trust me! Tell them what you have and what you want to end up with (follow a cookie cutter). Scrubjay is right, this is what leads to the more tank syndrome  . Small fish will be okay with small fish, but they will grow and get big and may not be so okay then. The store can give really bad advice.


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## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

so say i wanted a tank that could house all of these fish. even if a little bit of over crowding is involved. What size tank would i need? Or would be reccomended?


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

at least a 6 footer...

can your fish store take back fish for store credit? alot of store that arent petsmart and the like will do this without a receipt, the bumblebee, aurutus, and the kenyi each would need a 6 footer with the right male to female ratio. plecos get 15 inches and turn into poop machines and stop eating algea when they realize they get food from you.

the labs are mbuna and if your looking for aggression mbuna are...so what i would do is keep the yellow labs and take back all others. get 3-4 more labs, 12-15 demasoni, and 4 white tail acei. male to female ratio does not matter much with any of these fish and youll have a packed colorfull tank with lots of action.

or a 55 is a good tank for a wet pet...if your just looking for a pretty fish with lots of personality and aggression= oscar...red devil...midas


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

I do not think a red devil or oscar would be happy in a 55g.


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## subaruwrb (Dec 29, 2009)

Can some one reccomend me a filter for my tank? An affordable filter. Thanks


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## TangTango (Dec 11, 2009)

Wow, it really makes me wonder about the person that sold all of those to ya.
Obviously more concerned about make'n a buck rather than having an informed customer.


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