# Mbuna/Hap.sp."ruby" hybrid?



## vics45 (Oct 7, 2009)

I have a Red top ice blue cichlid and I recently bought a Hap.sp."ruby" and kept them in the same tank.The Red top ice blue is 2" and the Hap.sp."ruby" is also 2". I bumped the temp. to 82 since it was kind of cool in the tank. when the temp. got to 80 the Red top ice blue and the Hap.sp."ruby" spawned. has any one else had occurence before? help!!!!!!


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

82 is on the top end of heat, really should be kept at 80ish.

Given the opportunity and mouthbrooder from the rift lakes can and will breed with any other mouthbrooder, so while not usually a common crosses (since most people keept the lakes separated) it is definitely possible. Having the correct number and gender ratios of each species will greatly decrease the chances of it happening again.


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## Gordon C. Snelling (Apr 15, 2007)

Sounds like that you have to not closely related genera that have spawned together. If this is the case then the odds of the eggs or unlikely to result fry will not be viable. If by some strange quirk of fate young are produced I would definitely let nature take its course and not worry about saving them.


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

*Gordon C. Snelling*

Victorian and Malawi mouthbroders are able to produce viable fry, who are usually fertile themselves. We just don't see it as often as we do the mbuna crosses or the hap/peacock/mbuna crossed from Lake Malawi fish because most people keep the lakes in separate tanks. Cichlids in general are much more closely related than it would seem based on thier taxonomies. Convicts (cental Ameria) can produce fertile offspring with Firemouths (South america) and they are even geographiocally isolated from one anoth (at this point).

An excerpt from an article on the fish species of Lake Victoria:
THE AFRICAN RIFT LAKES, PART 1 
LAKE VICTORIA: Troubled Waters

By Jason Jenkins
From July 2005 Underwater, Iowa Aquarium Society
Aquarticles.com



> ..Speaking in geographical terms, Lake Victoria is extremely young. The lake was formed when a recent up-thrust of the Western side of the Victorian Basin reversed the flow of the rivers that once flowed away from the basin. Scientists are saying that the lake could have been formed as early as 25,000 to 35,000 years ago. Within that time, it is believed that the lake may have dried up entirely between 10,000 to 14,000 years ago. This means that the 300+ know Haplochromines that evolved in Lake Victoria did so in an astoundingly short period of time. Even more amazing, they have all evolved from a single species, and have "less genetic variation than the human species." ...


This article doesn't state it bu tit is believed that that "original species" most likely came from Lake Malawi.

These articles by Jason Jenkinsabout the African Rift Lake are really quite fascinating (to those of us genetics geeks at least)

Hi the last scientifics finds do show that the entire Victoria stock has a Congo rivers origin with the genus Thoracochromis(Ole Sehausen 2003, nilotic origin of the Victoria species flock)
the haps from malawi and Victoria share a common ancestor but this no means that the victorian's fishes are decsendants of the malawi cichlids, in age some species are separated from 750 000 years(H.chilotes/H.sp"red tail sheller") so it means that the diversification took place long before the lake dried up. The first lake is thought to have arisen arround 900 000 years before present.
xris


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

There was a post about a trophues crossing with an auratus lol


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## Gordon C. Snelling (Apr 15, 2007)

Very interesting, although I know that hybrids are often possible once the natural barriers to reproduction are removed, I would not have thought it possible between an mbuna and a Victorian hap. Learn something new everyday. Thanks for enlightenment, I really do appreciate it.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

MalawiLover said:


> *Gordon C. Snelling*
> 
> Victorian and Malawi mouthbroders are able to produce viable fry, who are usually fertile themselves. We just don't see it as often as we do the mbuna crosses or the hap/peacock/mbuna crossed from Lake Malawi fish because most people keep the lakes in separate tanks. Cichlids in general are much more closely related than it would seem based on thier taxonomies. Convicts (cental Ameria) can produce fertile offspring with Firemouths (South america) and they are even geographiocally isolated from one anoth (at this point).
> 
> ...


T. meeki is central american... not south.

However, it has been proven for Parachromis dovii to cross breed with exCichlasoma festae, which is South American.


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## Weesque09 (Oct 3, 2009)

If the bottom glass is tempered and it most probably is, the tank will hold more than you think, irregardless if the stand is topless or otherwise, so go for it.

I would trade in the auratus and kenyi instead, maybe downsize the labs in half and add more fish to each group at least 3 females to a male, a few more for red zebra to avoid them interbreeding with labs.

In my experience the hybrid peacocks do fine with milder mbuna not the crazy aggressive species though, like auratus or kenyi, my firefish did fine in an mbuna tank.


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## samaki (Oct 25, 2002)

MalawiLover said:


> *Gordon C. Snelling*
> 
> Victorian and Malawi mouthbroders are able to produce viable fry, who are usually fertile themselves. We just don't see it as often as we do the mbuna crosses or the hap/peacock/mbuna crossed from Lake Malawi fish because most people keep the lakes in separate tanks. Cichlids in general are much more closely related than it would seem based on thier taxonomies. Convicts (cental Ameria) can produce fertile offspring with Firemouths (South america) and they are even geographiocally isolated from one anoth (at this point).
> 
> ...


Hi the last scientifics finds do show that the entire Victoria stock has a Congo rivers origin with the genus Thoracochromis(Ole Sehausen 2003, nilotic origin of the Victoria species flock)
the haps from malawi and Victoria share a common ancestor but this no means that the victorian's fishes are decsendants of the malawi cichlids, in age some species are separated from 750 000 years(H.chilotes/H.sp"red tail sheller") so it means that the diversification took place long before the lake dried up. The first lake is thought to have arisen arround 900 000 years before present.
xris


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