# All Male Peacock



## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

This is a theoretical thread right now because in my other thread i am having some difficulties and this will be my fall through plan. First question will peacocks live in pretty much the same setup as mbuna?Next question, how many peacocks could i keep in a 55g?

Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ngara)
Aulonocara kandeense 
Aulonocara Sp. German Red.
Aulonocara Stuartgranti chiwindi
Aulonocara Jacobfreibergi Ottor Point
Aulonocara Maylandi(Sulfur Head)
Aulonocara sp. Caroline Swallowtail


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

no
Aulonocara Jacobfreibergi Ottor Point 
Aulonocara sp. Caroline Swallowtail
in a 55


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Is the swallowtail a jake? I think it is.

You will be fine with only 1 jacobfreibergi species in a 55g, i personally would leave it out.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I would leave the Jakes out as well, just too aggressive for a smaller tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Aulonocara prefer a larger proportion of open space and just the occasional rock/rock pile. So your all-rock tank floor would not be to their liking. They like to sift relatively fine sand through their gills.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

yes i had major issues with a swallowtail in my 55, sadly i have a larger tank now and no swallowtail, he was so beautiful


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> Aulonocara prefer a larger proportion of open space and just the occasional rock/rock pile. So your all-rock tank floor would not be to their liking. They like to sift relatively fine sand through their gills.


That plan is gone now. So no jakes?

New list
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ngara) 
Aulonocara kandeense 
Aulonocara Sp. German Red. 
Aulonocara Stuartgranti chiwindi 
Aulonocara Maylandi(Sulfur Head)

Would peacocks be ok with lava rock or would it be too dangerous for them?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> Aulonocara prefer a larger proportion of open space and just the occasional rock/rock pile. So your all-rock tank floor would not be to their liking. They like to sift relatively fine sand through their gills.


That plan is gone now. So no jakes?

New list
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ngara) 
Aulonocara kandeense 
Aulonocara Sp. German Red. 
Aulonocara Stuartgranti chiwindi 
Aulonocara Maylandi(Sulfur Head)

Would peacocks be ok with lava rock or would it be too dangerous for them?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i had some with mine, they were fine unless you tried too hard to catch them, but you are going to need more fish


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> i had some with mine, they were fine unless you tried too hard to catch them, but you are going to need more fish


how many do you think i should have total?


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## Sir Tristen (Sep 16, 2009)

You should probably try for a few more. Are you set on only peacocks? There are some great haps that you could add to the mix.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i would say at least 9


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Sir Tristen said:


> You should probably try for a few more. Are you set on only peacocks? There are some great haps that you could add to the mix.


nope im fine with both, i have no experience with either but it sounds fun. I was just worried that the haps may be to big or something.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

no you just have to stick to the one's that don't get bigger than about 6 inches


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## tripnbili (Sep 6, 2009)

I have a 55 with 14 fish. 12 peacocks and 2 haps. 2 more haps will be added next week too...no problems so far (hear that wood knocking?)


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

New List
Aulonocara Kandense(Blue Orchid)
Aulonocara Stuartgranti "Ngara Flametail" (Mdoka Yellow)
Aulonocara Koningsi (Regal Blue)
Aulonocara Maylandi(Sulfur Head)
Aulonocara Stuartgranti(Usisya Flavescent)
Copadichromis Borleyi(Borleyi Mbenji)
Nimbochromis-polystigma
Protomelas taeniolatus (Likoma Is.) "Tangerine Tiger"
Nimbochromis livingstonii


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

Copadichromis Borleyi(Borleyi Mbenji) 
Nimbochromis-polystigma 
Protomelas taeniolatus (Likoma Is.) "Tangerine Tiger" 
Nimbochromis livingstonii

all too big


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Agree, look for haps 6" or under.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

most lethrinops

Copadichromis trewavasae 
Otopharynx lithobates 
Placidochromis electra

even a yellow lab would work with them


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

New More Expensive But Better List
Aulonocara Kandense(Blue Orchid) 
Aulonocara Stuartgranti "Ngara Flametail" (Mdoka Yellow) 
Aulonocara Koningsi (Regal Blue) 
Aulonocara Maylandi(Sulfur Head) 
Aulonocara Stuartgranti(Usisya Flavescent) 
Copadichromis Trewavasae Mloto Likoma "Fireline Mloto"
Otopharynx lithobates (Red Blaze) "Red Blaze Lithobates"
Placidochromis Electra "Makonde" (Makonde Yellow-black fin)


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

that list is kinda expensive,lol. Its 96.80 and then I have to pay 34.94 in shipping. But theyre nice quality fish. Anybody have any less expensive dealers that willsex for me that i can use?


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## tripnbili (Sep 6, 2009)

Fu3l said:


> that list is kinda expensive,lol. Its 96.80 and then I have to pay 34.94 in shipping. But theyre nice quality fish. Anybody have any less expensive dealers that willsex for me that i can use?


Where are you finding all those fish at? You can PM it to me if not able to post here... :-?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

actually i think i know where you are ordering and they are one of the cheapest, believe me when i say that you'll never get ripped off as much as you do in a store, my lfs charge over $30 for most cichlids

if you think that it's exspensive then this hobby is not for you lol


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Right now my 55 has stacked lava rock in it with almost no clearance at all behind it but about 6 or 7 inches of clearance in the front. Each side has 3 or 4 inches of clearance and at the top it ranges from 2 inches to 8 of clearance. Is this okay for peacocks and haps? The substrate is a 50/50 mix of black and white sand.

And it is a 55g tank.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

you need a lot more open space than rocky areas


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

do i need more open swimming place or open floor cuz i can do the first easier than the last but theyre both achievable. lol


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Both...just one smallish rockpile or some scattered individual large-ish rocks.


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Is lava rock to sharp for them? can sand it down if need be


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

as long as you're not chasing them around it's fine, the only time i ever had issues with fish getting cut was when i tried to catch them


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Thats a 8 fish stocklist for a 55g, will i be able to ever add any fish in th future?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you are going to add more it would be better to do it now. But you might not need to add anything, all males need a little more room than mixed genders. And you are doing this in a 55G as opposed to the recommended 75G (in the Library article).


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i've always been told odd numbers are better, not really sure why


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I just finished washing my 58lbs of lavarock and 100lbs of sand outside in freezing weather, but i got it done and did it well. I have brought them in to warm up and will be adding the sand and rock in later today. Hopefully I will also add water in today and start cycling.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

why do they have to warm up?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I added all the sand and rock, then *** filled the tank. I have both my filters running and i conditioned the water. I have ordered a bottle of Dr Tim's with 3 day shipping so im hoping to order my fish monday.


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Just a few pics
without water









with water









Unwanted top fin 60









Much beloved marineland emperor 350


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

New List(Saved a few bucks)

Aulonocara Kandense(Blue Orchid) 
Aulonocara Stuartgranti "Ngara Flametail" (Mdoka Yellow) 
Aulonocara Koningsi (Regal Blue) 
Aulonocara Maylandi(Sulfur Head) 
Aulonocara Stuartgranti(Usisya Flavescent) 
Otopharynx lithobates (Red Blaze) "Red Blaze Lithobates" 
Placidochromis Electra "Makonde" (Makonde Yellow-black fin)
Protomelas sp. Steveni Taiwan(Taiwan Reef)


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i would not order your fish before you make sure the tank is cycle, there are no guarantees


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I will add the cycling agent and test everyday until i decide to order fish. I am also adding bagged gravel from my bros tank to my filter to help along since he has no algae or snail problems in his tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The cycling agent has to be added at the same time as the fish, doesn't it? Also the Taiwan Reef is too large for a 55G.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I've used Dr. Tim's quite successfully several times. Yes, you add fish at the same time as Dr. Tim's. Or, I suppose, you could add it and then do a "fishless" cycle with added ammonia to keep the Dr. Tim's bacteria alive. But if you add it and don't add fish or ammonia, you're wasting your money.

One caution, you have a fairly alrge initial bioload of fish. (Not sure their sizes.) I would overdose on Dr. Tim's (personally) and add a second bottle probably on the third day. Remember that once you add it you really can't do water changes without removing some of the bacteria you just paid to introduce.

The gravel from the other tank should help.

I should also note that I did order Dr. Tim's online and it was the one time that it did not seem to work. I bought the rest of it from a LFS and it always worked.

Good luck.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It has to be kept cold, and maybe in this weather that's not a problem. But I'd pay for overnight shipping and make sure I was present to receive delivery.


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

ill just go back to my previous list,thats cool. i only changed one fish anyways,haha,so its not a big deal.


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Are haps/peacocks good with plant and if so what kind? Also what bottomfeeders are good with the previously listed fish?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

yeah i meant start it like a fishless cycle and add the dr tims, that way if it doesn't work then you won't have a bunch of dead fish on your hands


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

i added in a free sample bottle of stresszyme which is supposed to help cycle yesterday, and im just adding some fish food in everyonce in awhile for it. Then ill do the fishless cycle thing with dr tim's and add my fish in.

EDIT: i just realised i have no idea what to feed my fish. Can i have them nls or do i need algae wafers or what? can they eat vegetables like yellowquash?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think her Dr. Tim's is already on order but fish are not. No time for fishless cycle now, LOL. The fish food won't have time to rot, which it needs to do before it provides bacteria food.

Don't put too much "stuff" in your tank. If something goes wrong it will be impossible to diagnose the problem.

Yes haps and peacocks are OK with plants. Do you have special plant lights or just tank lights...plants can be expensive. Special plant substrate or sand? Are you experienced with plants or a beginner?

I feed New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula exclusively, and it will be good for the haps as well.

Regarding bottom feeders, are you looking for a cheap clean-up crew (bristlenose pleco) or just cool fish which might be more expensive (a group of Synodontis Lucipinnis)?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I am getting special lamps, but not specifically for plants, but they are high output. i have some experience with plants. I have sand.

I will order some NLS soon.

I just want a functional bottomfeeder to cleanup and mess with my sand so it doesnt get air bubbles but looks are good.

PS. I am a man incase you guys dont know. lol. i noticed dj's her

once i test my tap water. Do you think my aquarium water will be any different because of the stresszyme i added in? Also what should the test reading show after i add in the dr tim's?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

tap water and uncycled tank water should be the same, the only time it starts changing is after the addition on ammonia, then you will eventually start seeing the progression through the cycle


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Should there be any difference since i have added a bottle of stresszyme which is meant to cycle that treats 60 gallons, and *** added a used sponge cartidge that i took out of my bros cycled tank?

Also what bottomfeeders would you guys reccomend. I want functinality and something that willl dig in the sand cuz im lazy but looks are good also.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

first off i don't think stress zyme works at all

second, there won't be any change without the addition of ammonia, you have to have ammonia for the entire thing to start, have you added ammonia yet?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Nope. but on a different point how about bottom feeders? what bottomfeeders would you guys reccomend. I want functionality and something that willl dig in the sand cuz im lazy but looks are good also.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

your fish should not be a big concern if you don't get your tank cycled properly, but it seems like you're more concerned about bottom feeders, when you don't even have a tank to put them in. good luck on your tank


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I do have a tank. I am merely trying to iron out kinks with the stocking. i know that it needs to be cycled which i will do when the dr. tims arrives and i will test every day to make sure it works.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

adding a liquid from a "magic bottle" doesn't cycle a tank, even if there is bacteria in it, the tank cannot "cycle" without ammonia, you can dump all the stress zyme and dr tims you want in your tank, but until there is ammonia, everything will read 0. if you're worried about the cost of fish you shouldn't be taking the health so lightly. to me it looks like you need to do some more research on the nitrogen cycle


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

ill be adding a few fish in to start the cycle today and then there will be ammonia for the bacteria. I dont know what else you want me to do.

Im still curious about bottomfeeders but if you must continue about cycling you may.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

well maybe since i have ignored the bottom feeders question, i figured you'd realize i might not know.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

btw i don't know of any bottom feeders that will eat the fish **** sitting on the bottom, so i'd plan to have to syphon it out and do regular water changes


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The only creatures I can think of that stir up the sand are MTS which most people treat as a pest and want to eradicate. cjacob is right, there is not an animal that will eat non-food debris.

The fishkeeper needs to stir up the sand and remove debris himself. :thumb: Bristlenose plecos will eat extra food from the bottom and clean the algae from your glass and decor.

It does sound like you might be mixed up on how the cycle works. You don't want to add any bacteria (supposedly in stress-zyme? from your brother's filter? Dr. Tim's?) until you are ready to feed them ammonia the same day. Either with fish (fish create ammonia via waste and by breathing) or pure ammonia from a bottle.

If you are adding 8 fish, then you would want 8 fish of the same size in there creating ammonia to feed your bacteria.

If you add the bacteria and don't feed it it will start to die in a day or two.

Plants that do well with African pH are java fern, crypts, vallisneria, swords and anubias to name some of the most common ones.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

sorry, but you have to understand that after 12 pages of trying to help you stock a mbuna tank, you pull a 180 and now we're 4 pages into an all male hap/peacock set-up, and you haven't put any real focus into your cycle, sometimes it feels like the advice we give you just gets ignored for the most part, it's stressful


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> btw i don't know of any bottom feeders that will eat the fish #%$& sitting on the bottom, so i'd plan to have to syphon it out and do regular water changes


i wasnt talking about the waste, i was talking about a fish to dig in the sand to help avoid poisonous gas bubbles, as dj said. And i actaully have added fish which i got earlier today. i just got 10 large feederfish and my test kit so i have added fish for the source of ammonia. I was just asking if certain things would help.

I dont like hurting fish but i also didnt feel like buting ammonia and for 10 fish for something like $4 it was hard to passup.

i am sorry cjacob if i have bothered you and im sorry i have switched decisions but circumstances changed and i had to rethink. If it seems i was ignoring some things than that is my fault.

On a better note i bought a magnetic scrubber and my test kit. I will post my readings later today once i take them.


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

1st Aquarium Test

Nitrates: 30
Nitrites: 0-.3
Hardness: 120 ppm
Alkalinity: 80
ph: 6-6.4
Ammonia: .25-.5

Is this good or bad or what?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

wow your ph is super low


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

i know, do the bottles of ph up that they sell at stores work well? Are there any other ways to increase my ph?

My dad has bottles of ph and hardness increaser for pools and hotttubs, are those ok for aquariums?

Also is my hardness alright. How about all of my other levels are they out of wack or are they normale for a new tank?

im sorry if i ask a lot of questions i just dont know much about what the readings mean.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

your nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia don't make sense and i'd suggest retesting, do you have the strips or the liquid tests? and what brand?

i would never use any kind of ph adjuster


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I have strips mabe by Mardel but then on the bottom it says "Virbac (Animal Health)"

How would you suggest raising my ph?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i wouldn't


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Retest

Nitrates: 30 
Nitrites: 0- .3 
Hardness: 125-150 ppm 
Alkalinity: 80 
ph: 6-6.5
Ammonia: .25-.5

So you think the peacocks and haps will be fine in low ph water?

And by the way, why do you think the orginal test was wacky?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i still think you need to go to the library section of this site and read about water chemistry, it would be to your benfit before you do anyhting else


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

you also need to give a better explanation of what you've done so far, you've been all over the place talking about gravel and filters, and stress zyme, and dr tims, and fish food, then you mentioed you added fish. i really have no idea what is going on in your tank


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Strips are not very helpful, you will do better with liquid test kits. Here is a Library article about how to increase pH. Since you have a pH problem, you should also get a KH/GH test kit because they go hand-in-hand with pH.

I would not use pH Up or any chemicals other than those advised in the article, they are less expensive too. But...test your KH/GH before you do anything.

Readings to shoot for should be like this:
0=Ammonia
0=Nitrite
10-20=Nitrate 
pH=7.8 or higher

No you do not want to put Africans in water with pH=6.0 or 6.5.

The ammonia and nitrite are poisonous and will cause permanent damage to your fish. Also your nitrate is pretty high for a newly filled tank...what happened? Test your tap water.



> a fish to dig in the sand to help avoid poisonous gas bubbles


Again, this is not for the fish to do, it is for the fishkeeper. You will be stirring the substrate weekly. Make sure it is not too deep...an inch is plenty.

Feeder fish have a lot of diseases, be careful using them. Do you have a separate quarantine tank?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Alright so here is what I have done.

1. I have added a sample bottle of stresszyme which is measured for 60g
2. I haved added the filter media and biowheel from another cycled tank into my filters.
3. I have added 10 large feederfish to create ammonia.
4. Friday or Saturday i will receive a cycling agent(Dr. Tim's One and Only) and will be adding it in to the tank by there directions.

I have read some articles in the library, didnt even know there was a chemistry section. I found a recipe for rift lake buffering and will be experimenting with it to see how it works with my water.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

how long after adding the filter media and biowheel did you add fish?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'm not sure you should do that yet. I think you need to get the KH/GH test and run it before you tamper.

Read the fine print on the stress zyme bottle. Does it cause false readings for ammonia, nitrite or nitrate?

Also make sure your test your tap water before you go any further. Both immediately and after letting the water sit in a bowl for 24 hours.

When are you getting the fish? Is Dr. Tim's compatible with stress-zyme?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

maybe he should do a water change to get the stress zyme out if possible


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> how long after adding the filter media and biowheel did you add fish?


About 4 1/2 hours

DJ, Im only tampering with water in a separate container to see how it effects and then MAYBE i will scale it up later. The stresszyme bottle has no fine print about warnings and after research on the internet I found none either.

I will test my tap water. The fish i will be getting at earliest wednesday of next week. I do not know if Dr Tim's and stress-zyme are compatible but I am not too worried due to the fact that it was only 1/3rd of the reccomended dose for stress-zyme.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

even just a little bit of ammonia mixed with bleach will kill you, gotta think of it the same way with chemicals in the fish tank

my gut tells me something is wrong with your water, and if you had been more clear about your intent to use mature media and a bio wheel, we would have told you not to use the stress zyme(which i believe we all said anyways) and not to bother ordering the dr tim's


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Then why do you think you have so much nitrate already? And I'm surprised you have ammonia and nitrite on basically day 1. The water should match your tap water since you just filled it?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I filled the tank yesterday. i am sorry if i incorrectly told you guys something or if I failed to tell you something. If i have done anything very wrong i would be very grateful if you would help me fix it.

Natural Tap Water

Nitrate: 10
Nitrite:0 - .2
Hardness: 120-150
Alkalinity: 80
pH: 6.4
Ammonia: 0 - .2

Now i tested out the Rift Lake Buffer Formula with 5 gallons of water.( 1 tablespoon of epsom salt and 1 teaspoon of baking soda)

Nitrate: 10
Nitrite: 0 - .2
Hardness: 250-325
Alkalinity: 180-240
pH: 7.6 - 7.8
Ammonia: 0 - .2


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

bump....


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

if those readings are correct, you're gonna have some tough times keeping a tank, with traces of all three chemicals, your nitrates could possibly stay very very high in your tank, basically you would have to make frequent very large water changes, since every time you add water you add nitrates, no to mention the present ammonia and nitrite that will be converted into nitrate in a mature tank

so basically if you have 20ppm nitrate before the water change, and you remove 50% you will still have 20ppm nitrate in the tank right after the change, and if you changed less than 50% of the water, you'd actually be increasing nitrates with water changes

there also could be soemhting seriously wrong with the test kit


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Since you have so much nitrate in your tap water, plants may be essential. I'd report that to the water authorities by the way...I assume state of Delaware in the US and I'm surprised that they would allow such a high nitrate reading.

I think you missed the part about getting a test kit for KH/GH and giving us those readings before changing the pH.

The reason for this is when you change pH you need to also ensure your KH/GH change in a way that will "support" or "buffer" the pH. Otherwise you will have pH crashes which can harm/kill your fish. Water chemistry is a tricky thing and it's better not to tamper with it until you have all the facts. If your local LFS does not have this (mine did) you would be well advised to pay overnight shipping and get a test kit tomorrow.

I still don't understand why the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are different than the tap water. Was the filter you added dirty (really dirty)? Where else could those pollutants be coming from in your tank?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

gold fish are dirty, there is a chance they mucked up the tank quick


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

24 hours? It took two weeks for my tank to show ANY nitrates at all. (I used established filters to skip over the cycle.) If tap has 10ppm and tank has 20ppm then OP got 20ppm generated by 10 goldfish overnight?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

My test kit test for Total Hardness, which i beliee is GH, and Total Alkalinity, which i believe is KH. But please correct me if i am wrong.

DJ i will be adding plants, earlier not out of necessity but now it seems it will be. Also i had added a filter from an old tank and it was seemingly very dirty and that may have contributed to the nitrite and nitrite. That is my fault i didnt notice it till about 10 mins later, when i saw debris flowing around and I removed the dirty filter.

Todays Test

Nitrates: 10
Nitrites: 0 - .1
Total Hardness: 120-230
Total Alkilinity: 80-120
pH: 6-6.4
Ammonia: 0

I have tested the buffer recipe in my water(posted results earlier) and it worked very well for me and Im wondering if i can add it to my tank safely.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

well actually within 4.5 hours, which does sound unlikely. i don't know, this is really confusing, i'd say it would be worth removing all fish, removing all water, filters etc, refil the tank, add dechlorinator, buy ammonia, so you can control the actual levels, test the tank water, post the readings, then get the ammomina up to between 1 and 2 ppm then add the filters back to the tank, if they are well establsihed and have a good bacteria colony, you might see a ammonia drop within 24 hours, when you already have so much stuff present in your water, its a better advantage to do a fishless cycle so you have more control over what goes into your tank


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd get the liquid tests for KH/GH because those ranges are VERY wide. But it looks hopeful. Yes it does appear that KH is also known as alkalinity and GH which is general hardness may be the same as total hardness. I'm really not a chemist however, and since my tap is perfect I don't mess with any of this stuff.

With the liquid kits you would know exactly which number you have.

Also I would not remove the dirty filter, but rinse it well (just slosh it, not too, too vigorously) in tank water and put it back on the tank to help with your ammonia and nitrite.

Meanwhile do a 75% water change in your tank to reduce the nitrates to 15ppm to get in the right ballpark. Test daily.

What happened when you left your tap water sit in a bowl for 24 hours? You need to do all the tests on the bowl as well. pH can change dramatically after standing.


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> I'd get the liquid tests for KH/GH because those ranges are VERY wide. But it looks hopeful. Yes it does appear that KH is also known as alkalinity and GH which is general hardness may be the same as total hardness. I'm really not a chemist however, and since my tap is perfect I don't mess with any of this stuff.
> 
> With the liquid kits you would know exactly which number you have.
> 
> ...


I have a filter pad anda biowheel in my tank right now so im not really bothered about removing the one other filter.

My dad thinks 75% is ridiculous but if you guys say i should do it then i will because i just want to get this figured out and done. Even if it is a beach to emtpy the water into buckets and refill the tank.

what are your thoughts on the cycling agent? should i use it as instructed when it arrives or wait it out and try and get this all sorted out?

As you can tell i am very confused right now. i have never had to do this before so i am completely useless.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Fu3l said:


> I have a filter pad anda biowheel in my tank right now so im not really bothered about removing the one other filter..


This is where I can tell you are confused. You are not trying to get filtration by adding the other filter. You are trying to get the bacteria. You know you don't have enough because you are getting ammonia and nitrite readings.



Fu3l said:


> it is a beach to emtpy the water into buckets and refill the tank..


Get a python. And with your nitrates in your tap water, get used to it. :thumb: Why does he think it's crazy? Doesn't he think ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are harmful to fish?



Fu3l said:


> what are your thoughts on the cycling agent? should i use it as instructed when it arrives or wait it out and try and get this all sorted out?.


What you are trying to sort out is the ammonia and nitrites. You need the Dr. Tim's to help you with that. When is it arriving?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

you have two filters? where did they come from? what types, how long have they been running on previous tanks if at all?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I have two filters actually runnig on my tank but i believe you are asking about the two filter media things i have cjacob. One is a biowheel from a eclipe system 6 planted tank i have running for a gourami but it has an algae outbreak and a snail infestation so i didnt use the filter pad itself. The other thing i have is a filter pad from my brothers 10g tank and they both have been running for about 1 year.

DJ,the dr tim's is arriving later today or tomorrow. Should i add it in when it comes?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

where are these things? are they in the filter? are they in the tank? is there carbon in the filter pad you are using? maybe there is a chnace that there is waste in it being leached back into the tank

have you done your water change yet? tested water?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

They are in my filters because my filters have media trays and extra slots. There is no carbon in the pad, it seems more like a synthetic sponge. It has many white plastic curly hairs,almost like a dish scrubber.

I have tested the water,2 times yesterday and 1time today.All are posted here previously. I havent done a water change yet but will.


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I was reading the warnings on my testkit and it said to check the bottom for expiration date. So i checked and the 5 in 1 test kit (everything but ammonia) expired january of 09 and the ammonia test kit expired december of 08.

Soooooo, i may be getting some false readings. I believe im picking up a liquid test kit. 

Ill post the readings i get with the new kit when i get it today or tomorrow.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

if it's the liqued kit, especailly the api one, make sure you shake bottles even if it doesn't tell you to, and also you need to shake the nitrate bottles much longer than it suggests, i shake bottle number 2 for at least a minute, and i rap it on a hard surface as well, they are good tests, just have to make sure the chemicals are properly mixed and aren't too settled


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I have 2 synodontis Nigrita, which i got from petco, in a holding tank right now. They are about 1.3" each, and one also has a very large beautiful sail. Will they be ok with my fish? I only got them because I read they were peaceful and they stay under 7", and they are beautiful.


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Sorry if this bothers you guys but a fish *** been wanting came into stock so i have just made like 2 changes on my list, please comment 

aulonocara stuartgranti chiwindi (Blue Neon Chiwindi) 
Aulonocara Kandense(Blue Orchid) 
Aulonocara Stuartgranti (Ngara) Orange (Ngara Flametail Orange) 
Aulonocara Koningsi (Regal Blue) 
Aulonocara Maylandi(Sulfur Head) 
Aulonocara Stuartgranti(Usisya Flavescent) 
Otopharynx lithobates (Red Blaze) "Red Blaze Lithobates" 
Placidochromis Electra "Makonde" (Makonde Yellow-black fin)

I replaced ngara flametail with ngara flametail orange.
I replaced fireline mloto with blue neon chwindi.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They prefer a somewhat lower pH than Africans but can probably adapt. Become territorial when mature, so may fight in your tank when they are older. The pics I viewed did not have a large sail...are you sure of the ID?

Is the holding tank cycled? You would not want to put a catfish in a tank that has any ammonia or nitrite readings.

I do not recall the test on the water left in a bowl for 24 hours outside the tank. Was the pH the same as right out of the tap?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

your list looks fine at quick glance, still need to get your tank issues sorted out though


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> They prefer a somewhat lower pH than Africans but can probably adapt. Become territorial when mature, so may fight in your tank when they are older. The pics I viewed did not have a large sail...are you sure of the ID?
> 
> Is the holding tank cycled? You would not want to put a catfish in a tank that has any ammonia or nitrite readings.
> 
> I do not recall the test on the water left in a bowl for 24 hours outside the tank. Was the pH the same as right out of the tap?


It could be wrong because they are from petco. The tank is cycled,has been for awhile.

The water thing is a funny thing, but long story short it got knocked over by a cat and no more 24hour water. I am setting one out as we speak and will put it somewhere where a cat cant get to it.

Alright, the dr tim's should arrive tomorrow if my 3 day shipping is trustworthy. What is the plan when i get it? Should i just add it right in because I have fish in as a source of ammonia?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

pretty much


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I will post tomorrows test before addition, after addition and also the test of the 24hour water.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

you have fish in the tank right now? test the water as soon as you get the new test kit, if there isn't any ammonia, you may not need to add it


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

If there is no ammonia registered in the tank does that mean my tank is already cycled?

Also if so how would the tank have cycled so quickly?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

from the bio wheel or filter pad, this happens occasionally, but never a guarantee


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Just to be safe and since I dont know when the bottle will expire would it be ok to add the cycling agent tomorrow even if my test shows no ammonia?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

yeah, it's just supposed to be bacteria, but the thing is, if you don't have ammonia built up before you use it, you can't come here and say oh i used it and it worked great, because that's not the true case lol


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Haha, im picking up the test kit tomorrow so you guys will get the results.

Also i posted the results for my experimentation with the rift lake buffer recipe to scale and was wondering if it would be safe to use before i add my real fish in an if so if i should add it in today or after i add the cycling agent and such.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i honestly know nothing about buffers because one i don't trust them, and two i don't mess with water, i pretty much only keep africans because of my very hard and very high pH water and i don't want to screw with them, although it's much safer to go down with ro water than to try to buffer up imo

the only stuff i ever use is some kind of calcite/aragonite based rock/substrate to maintain my high pH as nitrates rise


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Will it screw anything up terribly badly if i add it in tonight?

Or should i wait till say,day before i get the fish?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i think you want to get a better answer about what it's doing to you tap water before you add it to your tank, just do what dj said, you'll have to go back and check ot his responses to your tests


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## Plex7 (Sep 8, 2009)

I have a 55G.

German red x1 (might be a female)
OB x2 (for the basic body color... one is red the other is yellow)
demasoni x2 (pair)
Unknown peacock x1(Has a red shoulder, then the color moves to orange then yellow all the way to the fin caudal fin. Has some amazing basic electric blue on the whole body. He has some green on the head. Gorgeous peacock. I won't be able to replace him when he dies)
Red fin (Copadichromis borleyi) x1. Dormant male during mating season. Gets really pretty. But one big bully.
Eureka red x1
Super red empress x1
Venustus x1 ~ bought him dormant out of 20 or so other venustus' he was whipping some ass in there. His'dormant' coloration is still present more or less.
Compressisceps x2. They're about 6.5-7" NO color yet.
Lwana x1 the caudal fin is so pretty.
P.Tarzanian x1. Very unique too. Loving the silver little "specs" he has.
Rubescens x1 Subdormant, unfortunately. He was pure red-orange when I got him, but the lwana and one of the OB's terrify him. Not recently though, but he lost a lot of his color in return.
Lemon Jake x1. Very gorgeous yellow peacock, I wish the yellow was more concentrated though.
Ussisya x1. A swimming portrait enough said. All yellow body with black fins, really wicked.
C.Moori x1 (soon to be x2). My favorite hap. Mine is 4", I can see the hump growing already.

Yep some of these fishes will out grow this tank. I plan to upgrade to a 150-200g when by the end of the year. For now they seem to be content. Lots of rocks, hiding places and lots of swimming space above.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

*Plex7*
this is not a good suggestion for stocking a 55, not everyone plans to upgrade


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would not change the pH until you have liquid test results on GH and KH so you can get a true reading and not such a wide range, which is not very helpful.

Also I would not change the pH until you have the 24 hour standing water results.

Finally, I would not change the pH until you get the fish. I always (a) ask the seller what pH the fish have been kept at, and (b) test the bag water the fish come in because I have found (a) to be dramatically wrong on several occasions. At least initially, you will want to match pH in your tank to pH the fish are used to.

You do not have the "fresh" test kit yet, so you really don't know what your water parameters are anyway.

Read the label on Dr. Tims to find out expiration, I believe it lasts longer if refrigerated. Depending on the expiration date, I'd say save it in case you get a spike.

I would not trust those ammonia=0 readings with an expired kit and knowledge that your filter material was supporting such a small fish load.

How can you go from 30ppm nitrate Dec31 to 10ppm nitrate Jan01 with no water change?

Doesn't make sense!


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

how long do the liquid tests last?

if he's odering from the place i think, their tanks are constant fed from a geothermal hot spring, high pH, hard water


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/t ... s_life.php


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Cjacob your right about where i am ordering.

I got the api greshwater test kit.

Tap Water Test
pH: 7.2
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10
Ammonia: 1

Tank Water Test
pH: 7.5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 15
Ammonia: 1

I do believe i will i will need the Dr. Tim's


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

you don't need the buffer


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

thats what im thinking now. But i think i will need the cycling agent.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

thanks dj i was worried it was somehting like a year, 5 years is good


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Did you do that 75% water change? Or were your prior test kits just completely whacky?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

just completely wacky


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

OK, so did the Dr. Tim's arrive? How many fish are in there now? How many are you adding?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

no it didnt arrive yet so im kinda pissed.

There are only 2 now, the rest died extremely early on. I guess i could have said that earlier but they never looked healthy from the beginning and i doubt they would have lived much longer at the store .

I will be adding 7 peacocks and 2 haps to my tank.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

that's the risk with cheap feeder fish, and there is a chance you might have diseases in your tank


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

So far the other two fish are perfect. Swimming well,active,energetic and they have no abnormal behaviour. Will dosing the tank with melafix help rid it off any diseases or will i just have to hope i dont have any?

Oh yeah, my previus post is incorrect, i am adding 6 peacocks and 2 haps, not 7 peacocks.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

you don't want to have to be adding anything to the tank this early on except for dechlor


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

When are your fish arriving? Best to add the Dr. Tim's with the fish. And I think you need to remove the remaining fish so you can add enough ammonia to fuel the cycle in the meantime.

I'm not sure Dr. Tim's is meant to work when there is already an ammonia build-up in the tank. Maybe keep the cycle going with ammonia and do a massive water change just before you add the Dr. Tim's.

So then you expect the Dr. Tim's Monday? And when are the Africans arriving?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Correct on the dr tim's.

The fish have overnight shipping so they will arrive whenever I have the best opportunity due to the fact of the extreme weather, i dont want the fish to die. I will tell you guys the day i order them.

I believe you are correct on the use, and i think your idea is a very good one and i will go on with it.

After searching around it think the fish i was sold are synodontis nigrita or euptera.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

did you do the water change? you need to test the water, change it, and after an hour or so do another test


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I tested the 24hour aerated water

pH: 7.4
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 25
Ammonia: .5


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Wait, how did the nitrate go from 15 to 24 overnight? Especially with 2 fish in there? That takes a week in my fully stocked tanks.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

that's not right, your nitrates shouldn't climb from 10 to 25 just sitting in a bowl on the counter should it?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i am so glad i don't live in delaware, does anyone else in this forum from there have these kind of issues? btw your filter is a penguin, you had it labeled in the pic as an emperor


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> i am so glad i don't live in delaware, does anyone else in this forum from there have these kind of issues? btw your filter is a penguin, you had it labeled in the pic as an emperor


Yah i just go confused. And i have no idea how my nitrates got so high, it doesnt make sense to me.

DJ, this is the tap water i set aside, not my tank water.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Redo the tests is the only suggestion I have. Now I'm worried that the tank tests might not be right.


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I have no idea. I guess we will know when i post todays test results. Maybe there was something in the container I had the water in.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i would do tests out of the tap at different times of the day to see if it's consistant

also make sure you violently shake the nitrate bottle 2 for at least a minute, then violenty shake the test tube for at least a minute, and shake all bottles before using them, tap them on counters do whatever to make sure everything inside is well mixed and shaken up


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

If you can please identify.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No idea, but maybe post the pics on www.planetcatfish.com.


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

I took todays test, a little later than i expected but I was busy.

pH:7.5
Nitrite:0
Ammonia: .7
Nitrate: 20

I added this plant in for looks and to also help deal with nitrates. I think i will add 1 or 2 more in like it then maybe 1 more plant,im not sure yet.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

for some reason you have bad nitrates, but since you have ammonia, your tank is not cycled properly and i think you need to increase the ammonia a bit to really be able to do it


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

reccomendations?

How much will plants help my nitrates?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

my suggestion is to add ammonia to cycle you tank


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

if i dont have ammonia on hand what can i do so i have satisfactory amount of ammonia for the bacteria to feed on when the dr tim's comes tomorrow, because i want to add it in as soon as possible so i can cycle and order my fish.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

buy ammonia


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

At this point, I would not add the Dr. Tim's until you have the fish. That is how it is designed to work...virgin tank added with fish.

Get the fish on order!


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Alright peacocks and haplochromines are herbivores like mbuna right? Im looking for a very good food for haps. I will be suplimenting their diet with vegitables often but need a good food for them. I only currently have tropical fish food which is a flake and high in proteins which i dont think will be suitable since its not meant for herbivores really at all.

I was just reading in the library to feed cichlids a diet high in spirulina but not too much. So what food should i get specifically for my peacocks and haps that has spirulina but also other dietary supplements for color and nutrition?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

actually they are not herbivores, they like meat, but need veggies as well, i feed mine nls cichlid formula, with the occassional frozen treat (mysis)


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

yah thats why i was asking. So just nls cichlid formula, veggie supplemented diet with a protein treat every once in awhile.

Do they get malawi bloat from too much protein? And is spirulina ok for them or what?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

no added veggies or spirulina

strictly nls is fine, it contains plenty of veggies and spirulina. i just do occassional protein cuz i want to, but no need


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

How long would 600g of nls cichlid formula #1 sinking pellet probably last me with my 8 fish?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i have had a 150g thing for a year, but i don't feed a ton, i might not feed enough, i dunno


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Final Stocklist

Aulonocara Stuartgranti chiwindi (Blue Neon Chiwindi) 
Aulonocara Kandense(Blue Orchid) 
Aulonocara Stuartgranti (Ngara) Orange (Ngara Flametail Orange) 
Aulonocara Koningsi (Regal Blue) 
Aulonocara Maylandi(Sulfur Head) 
Aulonocara Stuartgranti(Usisya Flavescent) 
Otopharynx lithobates (Red Blaze) "Red Blaze Lithobates" 
Placidochromis Electra "Makonde" (Makonde Yellow-black fin)


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Todays Tank Readings:

pH: 7.5
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: .6
Nitrate: 15


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

something is wrong with your testing, make sure you are doing the tests correctly


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## TXfishDude (Jan 4, 2010)

Not to sound too negitive but, you need to read a toooonnnn more before you are ready for fish. Im new to this site/cichlids also and have 0 fish in our tank, other than 1 common pleco we addopted with the tank, and Im still reading too and making sure our tank is ready to go. BTW, it is completely ready to go and has been for for over a month, fish cyclyed though. Fuel, just start over and do it right. Thats all I can contribute. After having a pool company, never use anything chemical wise in your tank. Good luck. Yall here on the site sure have gone above and beyond with help.


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

The package with my Dr Tim's finally came, and its in the fridge right now.

The box was absolutely covered with 3 day shipping stickers. I guess i should be happy i got it but this being the 5th day i feel like it wasnt worth the extra money.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

well sundays don't count, and saturday delivery costs extra, so you won't get it unless you pay for it, 3 day is only worth it if you order on a sunday, give monday for processing and you get it wed/thurs


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

the directions arnt very specific on the bottle but from what you guys have said i just add it in before i add the fish right?

I think im ordering the fish this week too.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

add it with the fish


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

Fish come in tomorrow. Hopefully ill get off due to a snow storm but if tha happens I hope the fish make it. If not i will be sad but they have a 14 day guarantee.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

will someone be there to sign for them?


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

fish came today at 11:02. Blue orchid came dead, took picture got refund. I also received a free super red empress. I am worried two fish I have may be female.

In the release of my fish i also had some mix ups and now i may or may not be completely confused to the species of each fish because many look very very similar right now.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

the red empress will not be able to live in a 55 for life, it's a big fish, after a while i'd try selling it to someone at your local club or for store credit at an lfs


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## Fu3l (Dec 17, 2009)

My dad is planning on another tank. Of course its for "him" cux my mom would never let me get another tank,probably. But the red empress will be getting a bigger tank, I had realised that it would get too big.

My mom has also stated multiple times before after i was worried i would get hybrids if i end up getting a female that ill just have to get a new tank. So maybe i will get more tanks 

Oh yeah, my fish are very nice looking. It s a little hard to observe them though cuz they all school up whenever im in the room and just stare at me and follow me around the tank, lol.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Go for 72" for the empress. :thumb:


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