# Calvus Spawn...



## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Yahoo!!! I believe my Black Zambian pair has spawned :dancing: ! They started 'hanging out' together after I began supplementing their normal flake diet (Omega One) with chopped live earthworms, and now, about 4 days after I first noted the behavior, the female's in the shell. The male doesn't let her out for more than a few seconds before chasing her back in...(see video...and please excuse the 2 Zebra Danios. They are the calvus's only tankmates.)


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https://flic.kr/p/5021598311

So I went on the archived theads, and looked around for other similar posts, and decided that, when the fry are free-swimming, I will remove them to a DIY breeding trap type of thing, and keep them in there a few weeks, then, depending on how many, if any survive, they will be moved to a good sized Sterilite container with a sponge filter and heater. The first food for them will be Hikari First Bites, then, when a little older, will try to get them on crushed Omega One, or NLS, or whatever I'm feeding the adults at the time. I know BBS would be better, but I really don't have the time, money, or resources to be hatching them...
Are there any problems you see in my plan? 
I have a few questions....
1. How long from when the eggs are laid (which I think is today) till they are free-swimming?
2. Should some fry be left in the shell with the adults, so they still have some to care for, or should I just take them all?
3. When I do water changes in the main tank, should extra caution be taken in matching temps. and should they be done S...L...O...W...L...Y... or just regular speed? The DIY breeding trap will have water flow from the main tank through it, so...

Thanks a lot,

Manoah Marton


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve been through about 3 spawns with my Calvus at this point. The male attempts to keep his female in the shell even when there isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t a brood to look after. When there are fertilized eggs, I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t see the female for around 3 days. She doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t even come out of the shell to eat.

When they spawn, they do a little unmistakable dance. The female backs out of the shell and shimmies her tail and then darts back in. Then the male rushes up to the shell and does a shimmy dance of his own. They go back and forth like this for a few minutes.

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve never seen the wigglers in the shell like the others report. Instead, I seem to run into them as free swimming fry after they get evicted from home. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m guessing thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s about 4 to 6 weeks after the spawn. Obviously it would be easier to collect them before this happens. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not trying to raise the fry and I honestly havenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t paid much attention to the time line. So, hopefully someone else can chime in as to the optimal time grab them out of the shell and how best to raise them.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

They did do that little 'dance' you were talking about. She seems to be there of her own will, the male isn't even watching her (he's hiding in his cave) and she's still in there. I'm 99% sure there are eggs in there.
Thanks for the input, and would gladly welcome any more,

Manoah Marton


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## alexlee04 (Jul 19, 2009)

I hope BioG doesn't mind but here is his post to a similar question I had. I thought it was really good advice. Good luck!



BioG said:


> The "surprise attack" method has worked great for me. I usually feed the tank and then, when mom and dad are a couple feet from the shell I shoot my arm in and grab the shell. If you wait until the fry are "knocking at the door" as it were, the female will most likely swim for cover rather than re-enter the shell.
> 
> Over the years I have also found that the female takes a beating from the male if I leave the spawning shell in the fry tank to be evacuated. So I have been able to twist the fry out of the shell in the fry tank with more violent twisting movements than you'd think was safe. I also have balanced the shell with the tip of my finger and the floor of the fry tank, quickly spinning it counter clockwise, so that the shell literally spins away from the fry. I will usually only evacuate 3-4 times the amount I think I can keep alive. Returning some fry to the main tank, still in the shell, has been good practice because it allows the m/f to finish the course naturally (Well, as naturally as possible.
> 
> ...


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Yup, you got a pair there. Once you see fry swimming around the mouth of the shell, get them out of there otherwise they will be gone within a couple days (as they will start to leave the shell on their own and they will get eaten PDQ).


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Wow!!! Thanks so much you guys! My male calvus has now abandoned his cave (or at least as i'm watching him now) and is swimming above the shell, chasing away the evil zebra danios, and 'checking' on the female.. now i'm 99% sure there are eggs in there. i made the DIY breeder box today, and will post pics. of that shortly. basically, it's a small clear container, with square holes cut out on the short sides of it, then i used silicone (GE 1 100% silicone door and window) to attach screen to each of the holes. the reason i didn't buy a comercial breeding net, is because a hard plastic bottom will be easier to clean than a fabric net.
i really like Biog's ideas and will probably try to match them. i plan on using a pretty big container for the fry tank, so there will be a good sized floorspace (i hope at least the size of a 30 long, maybe a 40 breeder). 
Will post later tonight,

Manoah Marton


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Also, Cherry Shrimp were mentioned as good clean up. Will Ghost Shrimp serve the same purpose? I know I can get the ghosts, but not sure about cherries. Will either of these species try to catch the calvus fry to eat them?

Thanks,

Manoah Marton


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

Manoah Marton said:


> ...My male calvus has now abandoned his cave (or at least as i'm watching him now) and is swimming above the shell, chasing away the evil zebra danios, and 'checking' on the female.. now i'm 99% sure there are eggs in there.


Yup, that's a good sign. :thumb:


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Here are the promised pics. of the breeder box setup...





































Manoah Marton


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Okay, so now the male isn't really showing much interest in the female or shell. The female is now either in the shell, or hovering above it. My thoughts are that...1. the male doesn't feel the need to defend the female, as there aren't any real threats 2. maybe, just maybe there are wigglers in the shell? i mean it's either wigglers, eggs, or nothing, and if there were wigglers, that would explain why she is hesitant to go in the shell...it's quite small. and, the male doesn't seem to be chasing her into the shell as he has been for the last couple of days...
what are your thoughts? and can I use ghost shrimp instead of cherry shrimp as a clean-up crew for the fry tank?
thanks, you guys are great,

manoah marton


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## css virginia (Jan 29, 2007)

What tank size did you breed them in..??


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

20 long. The female is very protective now, diving in the shell if i come even close...she also removes sand that falls in the shell. i can't see any eggs/wigglers, but i have a very bad view of the shell, and the female is sorta hard to see through :lol: . i'm going to remove it as soon as i see fry at the shell entrance...probably sometime early next week if everything goes well.
i'm so excited!

mm


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## DENZIO (Jun 16, 2010)

congrats!


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## css virginia (Jan 29, 2007)

Well...Congrats on the spawn and hope you have many fry that survive. 8)

Hopefully someday, I might be as successful...


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## alexlee04 (Jul 19, 2009)

I have ghost shrimp in my fry tank right now with no problems. The only fry in there are 13 cyp. fry which from the moment of stripping were very actively swimming in the water column. Alto fry on the other hand are small and like to spend a lot of time on the bottom. I have read that big female ghost shrimp might hunt small fry. Personally I have not witnessed it.

I like the ghost shrimp in my fry tank because they do consume uneaten food and also their larvae provide a live, more natural food source for the fry.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

ghost shrimp are too big for Calvus Fry and can/will attack and kill them! Cyp fry are subjected to open water at a much larger size than that of calvus fry so that explains why they won't eat the cyp fry. Plus cyps don't just sit on bottom waiting for a ghost shrimp to stumble upon them as Calvus fry will.

Cherries are smaller and don't have the equipment that ghosts do.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

hmmm. okay. i think there is a good chance of my getting some cherries off of aquabid. just to update, my female spent another 'night in the shell' and is now guarding it closely...just a quick question (i know, i have a lot of questions, but you guys have been great :thumb: ) would it be a good idea to get some 'threats' in this tank (e.g. larger fish, catfish) so she feels more that she actually has to guard, kind of like target fishes? not right now, but after this spawn? i think i can get a J. Dickfieldi from my LFS that are too large to be eaten...i can also get a Brichardi. i was just thinging so that they actually have something to guard against (zebra danios aren't very good attackers)  
thanks so much for your help,

manoah marton


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

she abandoned the shell. earlier today i saw here darting into the shell, and then coming out 'chewing'....so. Not good. I'm going to keep them on their high protein diet, and hope for them to spawn again shortly. Does anyone have numbers on how frequently they will spawn, especially after a spawn is eaten?

Not having a very good day today...(just got back from debate, which went badly due to crappy cases, then saw my female had still abandoned the shell...  )
Thanks for all the help though. You've been great, and have answered a lot of my questions.

Manoah Marton


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Was thid their first spawn? Whenever I use an f1 female for breeding (I only say this because being f1+ is the only way I can be sure of their first spawn since I most likely raised thm) Females usually take a couple practice broods to get warmed up and then wella! All of the sudden they are just pros on their second or third spawn.

Their aren't any real threats, lake wise, to Calvus fry until they've exited the nest unless the nesting site itself is inadequate which is almost never the case when using shells. My guess is that any gregarious catfish, and any other "threats" will just stress mom out causing her to take more time to settle into a breeding routine.

Keep feeding her well and watch her belly. It'll, most likely, begin to look a bit round in about 3-4 weeks and, within 6 weeks, I'm betting you see another spawn. Even if the next spawn is unsuccessful, you have nothing to worry about unless she goes 4 or more spawns without fry but I honestly have never seen that.

Calvus will just use "target fish" as dither fish as they're not very aggressive to other species.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Okay, got it. I'll keep them on their high protein diet, and hope for another spawn shortly.
But according to their previous owner (I bought them as a proven pair of this site's trading post) they have spawned before...maybe the new tank environment is messing them up?
Anyway, I hope they'll spawn soon, and will post when they do,
Thanks for all your help,

Manoah Marton

P.S. Would adding the J. Dickfieldi work in this size tank? I would only get one, and rearange the rockwork on one side of the tank...or will he just be a bother?


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

I think that if your pair is "practicing" that I'd leave things just as they are. Adding a lone julie could upset the balance.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Got it. Okay.
So I'll just keep my stock in that tank as the calvus pair, and 2-3 zebra danios as dithers. And maybe a few Nerite snails later on.
Also, though I'm currently feeding my fish cleaned earthworms (worms left to empty themselves of dirt for a day before being fed) I think I'm going to go the way of frozen food (bloodworms) just for convience. (my fish are probably reading my thoughts, because my female just came out of her cave and started staring at me...  )
Thanks,

Manoah Marton


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

You donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t really need to feed live or frozen food to induce breeding. Mine do just fine on NLS sinking pellets. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a lot more convenient and some would argue that itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a more nutritional diet.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Yeah, I know it's not mandatory, but they seem to like it, and its not all that hard to feed them with...plus I didn't notice breeding behavior until I started feeding live/frozen foods...so I'm happy to continue. Also, I want to finish up my can of Omega One before possibly switching over to NLS. In a few words, what makes NLS better than Omega One? Omega One seems to have pretty top-notch ingredients in their flakes...what makes NLS better?
Thanks,

Manoah Marton


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

Actually, I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know that NLS is any better than better than Omega. I am a bit surprised your Calvus will eat flake food though. Out of my 6, only one is brave enough to venture to the surface to feed. The others donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t really go much higher than the top of the rock piles.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Oh I put the flake in the water column for them to eat it. I think it's a little more natural (and fun) to see them snatch a flake out of the water, than have them pick pellets out of the sand...
Also, your not gonna believe this, but the female was just doing the spawning dance again. The male didn't pay much attention, so no eggs were layed, but still...I may have a clutch sooner than I had hoped. The female is acting like it's 'national defend bottom of tank against zebra danios' day...
we'll see. maybe it's just a fluke.

Manoah Marton

Oh, and their colors are really dark. Escpecially the female, who is usually pretty lite. And, i think her tube's down.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

If she just spawned their wouldn't be eggs yet but perhaps they haven't laid them yet? If you really want to see some action/nutrition put some live ghost shrimp in with them. (This anpther reason why having cherries for fry tanks is helpful, theu breed and then you've got live food once you have too many.)


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Good idea! I will definetly pick some of those up then when I have the fry tank going.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

I'm thinking of replacing the shell I have in the tank right now because it's really small, and the female can hardly fit into it...will any of these work?... http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10&pg=4

The reason I want to replace it is because I don't want me female spawning in a crack of rock, where I don't have easy access to the fry...

Thanks again,

Manoah Marton


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Manoah Marton said:


> I'm thinking of replacing the shell I have in the tank right now because it's really small, and the female can hardly fit into it...will any of these work?... http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10&pg=4
> 
> The reason I want to replace it is because I don't want me female spawning in a crack of rock, where I don't have easy access to the fry...
> 
> ...


Yes, the Tonna Tessalata -Large work fantastically well!

Calvus









Orange fin comp fry


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

I see. Only question is that my female is barely 2 inches long...will those still surfice?
Thanks,

Manoah


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Manoah Marton said:


> I see. Only question is that my female is barely 2 inches long...will those still surfice?
> Thanks,
> 
> Manoah


Absolutely: among my four calvus females, 1 is big 4+ inches and the rest are smaller. They all use them.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Great!!! Then as soon as the site stocks them again, I'll order a few.

Manoah Marton


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

I've been watching for them to stock some more as well. Seems like they haven't stocked them in a while. I might just pick up any proper sized shell some time...


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## DENZIO (Jun 16, 2010)

i am aslo starting up to try Altos breeding
reading trends like this help a lot especially for starter like me.

just to share, i found SHELLs ina local store thats looks like master Razzo uses

















and instantly when i put in the Shells, my possible pair battles to get one of it.
and now im seeing dancing and battling.

i try to post some pictures of my setup
and hopefully i have the same luck as Idol Razzo had. hehe!

cheers!


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

You say they don't stock them much? Hmmm...I wonder if a similar shaped shell would work. Cause a lot of the shell there are just color variants. 
I'm still seeing dancing...but there isn't really anywhere for my female to spawn...I think that shell in there right now is too small. 
Good luck DENZIO!!! And yes...it's not only that Razzo's fish are sick cool, he's a photography master as well  .

Manoah Marton


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