# Mbuna tank that looks like it's saltwater



## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

Hi guys,

I'm a fish guy who's interested in stocking my new 55G tank with mbuna. My previous tank is a 20G long with dwarf puffers and cherry shrimp, and both are breeding.

My basic plan is to make a mbuna tank that non-fish people will think is a saltwater tank - blue background, white sand, rugose rocks, and colorful active fish. I'm going to hide two giant sponge filters that together are rated for 200G behind/within rockwork, and the filters will be well-seasoned when I start the mbuna tank, thanks to some giant goldfish in another tank.

To that end, I'm trying to find a group of mbuna that will play (relatively) nice with each other. I'm also trying to pick fish with colorful males AND females.

Here are some potential candidates I'm considering. Other suggestions are welcome.

Psuedotropheus acei "Yellow Tail" (I like the idea of an upper tank mbuna)
Pseudotropheus saulosi (can't mix with acei, but a cichlid with classic mbuna colors)
Metriaclimae estherae, WT or "red zebra" (the orange and possibly powder blue are very striking)
Iodotropheus (interesting rusty/purple colors, ?peaceful?)
Labidrochromis "perlmutt" (I like the white color, and white/black striped females with yellow tails sound nice)

I'm planning on picking 3 of these (could I pick 3 and have an Iodo pair too?), and starting each group as 6-7 juveniles, then when they grow and color up a bit, remove fish until I have 1M/2-3F of each group.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd plan on 1m:4f of each depending on species. The larger number of females will spread aggression more.


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## Danzx6r (Oct 12, 2009)

If you only want Colourful fish then forget the Mbuna & go for an all male Peacock/Hap tank!
You will get a good range of colours from 7 or 8 fish!

Good luck :thumb:

Dan


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Do you think the peacocks look as much like saltwater fish as the mbuna though?


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

That's basically it.

Peacocks are stunning fish, but they look like gorgeous tilapia(which is basically what they are) rather than saltwater-ish. I'd also like some breeding to keep the stocks going, particularly if I end up with slightly obscure species.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Some people think acei get to big for a 55g. tank but I think 3-4 would be ok (the sex ratio isn't suppose to be so important with them as they are a more peaceful mbuna). I had 3 one time in my 55g. and didn't have one of them claim any territory in the bottom of the tank so you might get by with 3-4 of them and breeding groups of 3 other species.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

A large group of Demasoni and Yellow Labs would be the most pseudo "salt water" looking. And maybe a few Acei or female M. estherae added.

Just get what you want, not want you think will impress others. You can keep Saulosi with Acei, but it can be hard to get quality Saulosi. C. afra males are stunning, more than make up for drab females, and play nice in a 55g.


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## pomi (Oct 13, 2009)

If you want a marine look on your cichlid tank get some rocks that look similar to coral shapes, a blue background(no 3D background), very fine white sand substrate and for the light choose JBL Solar Marin Day. As for fish you should go with quality Acei, they look the most like salt water fish from all freshwater fish.


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

Well, I'll like the tank regardless 

Are there any C. afra with striking even if drab females? Like, slate-grey or purple ones?

Also, if I got the WT estherae, would the powder blue male pick fights with the acei?


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## aaxxeell (Jul 28, 2007)

i say 90% of malawi's will do the job...
make sure you use crushed white aragonite for substrate, coral reef looking rockwork, 1 or 2 clumps of vallisneria plants and a blue background.
imho to make it look reef i cant ephasize this enough: lighting lighting lighting.
get lots of 10,000k lights + 1 or 2 actinics


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## Danzx6r (Oct 12, 2009)

*aaxxeell*


> Lighting Lighting Lighting


Yes, I run a Marine Blue T5 Tube & a 14000k White, It gives the light purple look that you will try and achieve.

What ever you do with the tank just remember that marine tanks are NOT overstocked and only have 6-7 fish in max for the 55G! Thats why I would go with Peacocks but if you go for Mbuna, try & pick different colour fish not the same colours repeated.
Good luck.

Dan :thumb:


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## cheaton420 (Oct 24, 2009)

Why do you guys think that Mbuna look more like saltwater fish. I would have to agree with the peacocks and haps. There is much more variety and color with peacocks and haps, which is what salt water has to offer, than there is with Mbuna, at least I think so


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

people think my red devil is saltwater, I guess any big fish with color non-fisheads just automatically assume it's saltwater
blue lighting would add to the effect
But WHY would you want to make it look salty? Go with a natural malawi setup and just watch the neighbors be wow'd that freshwater fish can look just as nice.


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

bulldogg7 said:


> people think my red devil is saltwater, I guess any big fish with color non-fisheads just automatically assume it's saltwater
> blue lighting would add to the effect
> But WHY would you want to make it look salty? Go with a natural malawi setup and just watch the neighbors be wow'd that freshwater fish can look just as nice.


Primarily because I'd need granite rocks for a truly "natural" set up, and granite seems a wee bit on the heavy side, even with eggcrate. Aragonite sand looks salty and buffers PH, and lace rock and the like are lighter than granite and have a coral look to them as well.

It'll still be quite natural looking since I only have rocks and sand, the only real difference is the type of each.


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

If there's a nice small peacock/hap with black and white coloration, particularly on the females, I would consider it, because then I could probably get away with acei, the hap/peacock, and some yellow labs and/or Iodotropheus, since they all would be pretty peaceful.

A small black and white hap with a yellow tail would be perfect.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

100lbs of granite would only add 80lbs to the total weight of the tank, eggcrate is overrated for "evening the load", it flexes so much you still have pressure points. With a 55gal it shouldn't be a problem either way


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## Danzx6r (Oct 12, 2009)

A Yellow Lab could look like a Yellow Wrasse
A German Red Peacock could look like a 6 line wrasse 
etc etc etc

There are lots of choices but think the tank is the most important.
Holey limestone piled like a pyramid to the centre of the tank, Blue background and the Coral sand.

Start with this & let it settle..... then look at the fish :fish:

Dan :thumb:


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

Yep, the first priority is setting up the tank rocks and sand. December or January I'll think about actually getting fish 

Would it be possible to have a setup like this?
3 acei
5-6 yellow lab
2 hap/peacock males of different varieties (ideally a Red and a black/white individual) or a hap/peacock male-female pair


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Not sure what you mean by red or black and white but it may not be that easy to get a Hap/Peacock male to color up fully like that. If you want red or black in a small Hap you would want Victorian cichlids. The only black and white Hap from Malawi would be like a Copidichromis trewavasae called a "Mloto" male. You could try one Peacock Aulonocara male with more peaceful Mbuna, and he might stay a nice color.

I would stick to try to make it a somewhat crowded Mbuna tank, especially if you are not that experienced at keeping all these fish.


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## actionyak (Mar 16, 2004)

> A large group of Demasoni and Yellow Labs would be the most pseudo "salt water" looking.


I hear often from people seeing my tank for the first time, "wow, I've always wanted a saltwater tank, that looks great."

I want to do a reef tank someday, but in the meantime I wanted the most colorful and active freshwater fish I could find. For me, Mbunas fit the bill well.


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

How many fish would be "somewhat crowded"? 12? 14? 16?

Bioload won't be an issue (coupled w/proper water changes) with the dual giant sponge filters.

A single red peacock would be a nice addition, but that would limit me to "peaceful" mbuna like yellow labs, rusties, and acei, I would think.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Are you going to try for all male? Or breeding groups?


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

Breeding groups. All male mbuna sounds like more headache than it's worth.


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

Why not get a Syno cat fish(Cuckoo Catfish) for your black and white?? Helpful by being a cleaner, and still the colors you want....

http://www.aquariumlife.net/profile-ima ... atfish.jpg


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

That's a Tang not a Malawi cat, yes?

I might consider a cat, but I'd have to find one that was Malawi, captive bred, and not too big for the tank. A catfish would also potentially "ruin the illusion", though that multipunctuatus is a magnificent fish to be sure!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Saulosi, maingano and perlmutt would look nice.


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

You know, I think that the Venestus has to be one of the most saltwater looking malawi fish.... I don't know anything about tank size or compatibility.... Just another suggestion... well, opinion rather...


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

That one's a piscivore that gets to 10+ inches. Awesome fish, but a no-go for a community tank.


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

Like I said.... didn't know the specs on it - just going off looks..... they are awesome and look like something you would see in a SW tank...


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

I'm now leaning towards this initial lineup:

4 Iodotropheus
5 Pseudotropheus sp. "acei" (yellow tail)
6 Labidochromis sp. "perlmutt"
6 Cynotilapia afra "cobue"
6 M. estherae

As they grow, I'll remove any excess males from each species group. so it'll go from 27 fish to about 18 or so. Will eighteen fish work in a 55G, assuming I do weekly water changes and my two giant sponge filters do their job?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

18 fish would be OK, but limit to 3 species. With 6 species you won't be able to have enough females of each to (a) spread aggression or (b) keep odds of hybridization low.


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## Danzx6r (Oct 12, 2009)

No No No.... :lol: If your going to do what I think you are and build up a reef of Holey limestone, I think 18 fish is far too many as you will be using up atleast 1/3 of the tank to make it look good! 3 species - 4 of each would be best.

I agree with the comment on a nice bottom feeder to add black and white though! :thumb:

Dan


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

Thanks for the advice, guys.

I think I'll drop down to 3 species: perlmutt, estherae, and either a Cynotilapia afra "cobue" or P. saulosi (couldn't use saulosi and afra together anyways, since the males have similar color patterns, yes?). I'll start with 7 of each type, then get rid of the excess males once they get older so that I have 1m/3-4f of each type. If I feel really daring I might add a few Iodo at first and see how things develop - I can always give them away at fish club if I have to.

I would really love to find some Cynotilapia with attractive females, preferably ones that are a nice flat grey or muted blue. The brown and off-white ones don't do much for me...

I read a little more from the Konings book and the species above (NOT acei, which is why I dropped it) all live in the sediment-free rocky reef area, so I think I'm going to try and emulate that habitat and lose the sand almost entirely. Time to find some nice rocks and bust out the silicone...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Cynotilapia sp. hara have blue females and would color up better than the cobue if what I have read about them is true.


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## cichlify (Sep 1, 2009)

why dont you just set up a saltwater tank if you want people to think it is? if i came over not knowing anything and you said it was a s/w then i found out!! i would not trust you ever again haha.

Saltwater is not difficult to maintain, you just need put a little extra effort into it but its extremley satisfying. Plus you can have coral which is awesome...and sea slugs...and horseshoe crabs...i have them all!


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## Geddonight (Aug 7, 2009)

kuni said:


> Bioload won't be an issue (coupled w/proper water changes) with the dual giant sponge filters.


If you're going to "hide" the sponges, they're going to be a real PITA to get at and clean... Do you really want to tear down your rock work every time you need to redo the sponges?


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

> why dont you just set up a saltwater tank if you want people to think it is? if i came over not knowing anything and you said it was a s/w then i found out!! i would not trust you ever again haha.


I don't want to lie about the tank, I want people to think it's saltwater and then find out it's actually some totally cool freshwater fish.



Geddonight said:


> If you're going to "hide" the sponges, they're going to be a real PITA to get at and clean... Do you really want to tear down your rock work every time you need to redo the sponges?


Oh, they'll just be "hidden" when looking at the tank from the front. If I take off the top cover, it'll be easy to remove them from above.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

kuni said:


> I'll start with 7 of each type, then get rid of the excess males once they get older so that I have 1m/3-4f of each type.


I count myself among the majority of hobbyists who find catching mbuna _incredibly _difficult. So my advice is: what ever rock work you set up, be prepared to pull almost all of it out in order to catch your excess males.

Good luck!

kevin


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## pomi (Oct 13, 2009)

I agree to that. If you have rock work in your tank you will have to get them out to catch any fish. I am having troubles when I want to catch my holding females to strip them.

The food in the net doesn't work cause they don't eat anyways, I have to get the rocks out almost everytime.

Once when I wanted to catch a male I used the food in the net option. I was able to catch him after half an hour standing in front of the tank. IMAO


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

I'll make sure to put the rockwork together such that it's relatively easy to pull out.

I found some great brown granite at my local landscaping store today - now to rinse and scrub it, and possibly throw a few feeder shrimp in the tub I soak them in, just to make sure there's nothing leaching out...


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## BenHugs (Jan 13, 2007)

A black calvus is a tang but a real looker.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Ah but you would not want a calvus with mbuna.


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

Had a chance to visit a LFS with more than just the typical "Mixed African" tanks (which are just a bad idea on multiple levels)

I loved the Rusties, and yellow labs were striking. Perlmutts were a disappointment, most had little to no black barring, and I think the most striking thing about Perlmutts is the black/white barring on juvies/females. The demasoni were beautiful (and a bad idea if I want more than one species, I'm told) but they also had some nice Melanchromis which I'm pretty sure were "Maingano"s, as every fish in the tank had black/blue horizontal barring, and other Melano species would have differently colored females in there too, yes?

I'm currently leaning towards a tank with predominantly yellow labs, then maingano, and a few rusties. I'm going to have big pieces of brown granite in the tank, but I'm sort of split on whether I want sand or not - the labs are originally from areas with mixed sand/rock, but the other 2 are from areas that tend to just have rock.

I'm planning on having actinic (or 50/50 actinic/daylight) to bring out the yellows and blues in the fish.


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## BenHugs (Jan 13, 2007)

I have found Demasonis are only bad with each other. You can easily keep them as long as you have either 1 or 12+.

Msobo deeps are cool females are orange/yellow males are black and blue.


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## nickinsmokerise (Jun 22, 2008)

hey, my all-male peacock/hap tank gets mistaken for salt all the time.
i have a lot of blues in mine and the odd yellow peacock and ruby red
i have switched to river rock now with white sand, but when it was live rock, it
got confused for saltwater a lot.
people tend to think the yellows are saltwater fish more than any color in my tank
espesh the maleri island or baenshi with the blue head
of course most of these people arent aquarium enthusiasts as are we


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

Yeah, a lot of the folks who will see the tank won't be fish enthusiasts, so it's nice to have a big colorful tank that they can appreciate too.

I just got a bunch of brown granite that looks very similar to actual rocks in Malawi, and I'm going to try and recreate a "sediment-free rocky habitat". I've scrubbed the rocks and they're currently sitting in their first water bath in case they still retain mud or chemicals.

Because the rocks are dark, I'm going to focus on bright colors, like white and yellow. I would really love to have both yellow labs and perlmutts (not to mention some textilis or flavigulis) but it isn't worth the hybridization risk.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

I just recently set up a 125 gallon (6 foot) mbuna tank and some of my friends who do not know much about fish have asked me if it is a saltwater tank. I've also tried to keep hybridization risk pretty low. Here is my stocklist in case it may be able to give you some ideas:

Cynotilapia sp. Hara aka "White top hara"
Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos aka "Mainganos"
Metriaclima sp. Msobo Deep
Labidochromis Ceruleus aka "Yellow Labs"
Labeotropheus Trewavasae - Mpanga Red (hard to find where I live, had to mail-order)

For the whites you seek - albino pseudotropheus socolofi (snow white socolofi) are a very bright white color. Alternatively, a male Cynotilapia sp. Hara will be about 40-70% white and the females will be a nice purple-blue.


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

I got fish yesterday! They're currently in my big quarantine tub.

The wholesaler was out of rusties and maingano, and his yellow labs looked like hybrids, so I switched gears and ended up with the following species:

13 Lab. "Hongi"
10 Metriaclima "Msobo Deep"

All the fish are quite small right now, and I plan to remove subdominant males as the fish get larger and easier to vent, with a goal of 12-15 adult fish eventually.

Both of these guys live in the "deep intermediate habitat" so I'm using brown granite and pool filter sand with a deep blue background and a "marine" actinic.

I'll let you guys know how it turns out in a few days


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## Ca-Delta (Jun 22, 2009)

tank. But - we had never done this before so we went with the pedestrian brands. Much cheaper. As money is an object. To do it over, Labs, Demasoni and the O. Zebras only. Scrap the Rusty's and Red Face Macs. We definately have another tank in our future. It'll be Lake Victorians - male only.


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## Ca-Delta (Jun 22, 2009)

my horrible algae problems were from leaving the lights on 12 hrs a day. DH bought the double throw down coralife lights (3 sets of 4 bulbs each) of "regular" and atinic blue. It was only after much research that I figured out, TURN THE LIGHTS OFF! Was turning on at 9am and off about 11pm. Now I just turn on at 9am to feed, leave off until 4pm and turn on again to feed and for teh evening. No algae! Finally!!!


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

The tank is set up and the fish are in!

Sadly, one M. "msobo" did not survive the transition, but on the plus side, it was starting to show male coloration, so at least I didn't lose a female! I've contacted my LFS and they'll be getting the few msobo I didn't buy from the wholesaler, so I can up the # of juveniles just to be sure.

I'll post pictures later today!


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## kuni (Nov 8, 2009)

Here are the first tank shots:




























Everyone seems to be doing well, though one of the Msobo is hanging near the surface in the evening before I turn the lights off. As soon as the light's off, though, it hides in the rocks life all the others.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Looks great. More like a Malawi biotope, though, than marine. :thumb:


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## BenHugs (Jan 13, 2007)

Nice tank is it saltwater? :lol:


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Those rocks scream "Malawi." I like 'em.

kevin


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## iplaywithemotions (Dec 18, 2008)

Love the rocks! Nice set up!


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