# How to sex brevis?



## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

Yesterday I brought home an adult pair of brevis. The guy who knows about Tangs was not there when I bought them so the store person could not answer my questions. I know they are a pair because there were lots of their babies swimming all around. The pair was being held for someone who never picked them up so I swooped in a bought them. I have been watching them in the store for about 6 months. They look very similar. One is a tad longer and more narrow bodied while the other is a bit shorter and fatter. They are both a good size though around 3 inches, I have to get bigger shells :lol: They are both pretty with yellow on the top of their dorsal and at the tip of their caudal fins. The shorter fatter one seemed a little more aggressive at the store. The more narrow one has a more evident blue mark under its eye. In the store, the fatter one was really light colored and the leaner one was more dark, now it is the opposite. While viewing them in the tank at the store, I also saw the leaner one watch one of the fry go into a small shell then it went and sat on top of it like it was trapping it in. So, my guess is that the fatter shorter one is female and the longer one is male just due to the size differential. However, if this is true I have a very brute female. The shorter one looks more rugged while the longer one more gracile. If I were shown them one at a time I would guess the other way around due to looks and aggressiveness. I don't know how long it will be before I can get a picture. They dart into their shells (not sharing) when they see me.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> One is a tad longer and more narrow bodied while the other is a bit shorter and fatter.


Fist one is male, second female (assuming it is a m/f). Size and shape is the best determinant because they can go from dark to light and back pretty quickly.

Here's a video of a male and two females in full breeding colors. Both are young and not full grown. My adult males are almost double the size of adult females.

My females have a bright yellow spot that the male pretty much lacks. But, sometimes they can be very light or dark colored.

Females can be feisty as well, so I wouldn't go by aggression.

The only hesitation I have with being certain about yours is that mine are dramatically different in size. Even before a year old I guessed correctly when picking out 2 males and 4 females for a tank.

One other thought. If you see them sharing a shell, first to go in will be the female.

HTH


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

Okay, they had better be a pair! They were not cheap. There were quite a few smaller brevis in the tank all of which I assume are the offspring. The babies were around .75 inch and looked kind of stressed as if they had been harassed a lot. I saw one of the "parents" chasing and biting at one little one while standing there. Then there were my two which are way bigger. The tank was marked brevis pair one price and babies another.

The two I have are not as dissimilar in size as in the video but there is a difference. I also do not know how old these fish are and would assume not young. The tank I have them in has a 24x24 footprint. Would two males fight in this tank, would a pair squabble? Is there any way I would know, soon, if they are of different or of the same gender? Is it possible to just have a large female?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

All that I've had, 5 adults, and then the 12 offspring have all been very dissimilar in size as adults and even young adults. I've not even seen large females in pics. A pic of yours would be helpful.

Double the size is an exaggeration, more like 2/3's the size.

I've got two pair and a single male in a 10 gallon. In a 24 X 24 you could easily do 3-4 pairs. If you continue to have doubts about what you have, you might be better off trading them back for 8 or so of the young ones.

I've also found they're more sociable in multi-species tanks. In the 10 gallon they tend to duck into shells at any movement around the tank. Not so in the six footer with the xeno's and paracyps.

If you give it time, it will become obvious. Size, color (at least the variant that I have), and behavior will make it obvious.

Were there other adults in the dealer's tank in the last few months? If so, then the dealer may have made too many assumptions about the young and whose they were.

A mated pair is obvious. They hang around and duck into the same shell. I'd have wanted to see this behavior before paying for a 'mated pair'. If they weren't a mated pair, then no guarantees that they will become one, even if m/f, although I've not found them picky about mates.


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

I did not see them do this nor are they doing this in my little tank at home. It is a long story but in short, when the guy reached the net in the tank the brevis darted to hide. One went into a pipe and the other into an ornament. The guy proceeded to try and shake the brevis out of the ornament until I told him I would just buy it too so he did not injure my new fish. The other one slid out of the pipe easier and went right into the ornament to hide. They stayed in there while I drip acclimated them then moved them into my tank. This morning they had come out of the ornament and abandoned it for the shells. Each picked a shell in a different pile in the tank. One chose a much smaller shell than the other even though there were bigger shells to choose from.

In the store, there were only two adult brevis which I brought home which were in there for about 6 months every time I was in. There were always plenty of babies. They were in a tang community tank which was sold as a whole to the store from a local. I did not specifically ask but I got the impression that these were not ordered and thus the babies were not coming in on a regular basis. The same fish have been in this tank for a long time so I think there must not be much of a market for them here. To my thinking the babies must have come from the two big brevis right? How fast to brevis fry grow? I would say the babies were 0.75 inch maybe a tad bigger. This is not big enough to produce fry is it (just trying to figure out if one of the babies was really the female?). I am almost sure this is the pair that made the babies just because the others looked too small. Obviously I can not prove it because I only have a snapshot view of each time I went in but it makes sense.

I will try to get a picture but they seemed really shy this morning still. I will try to feed them tonight. What should I offer, pellets, flake or bloodworm? I read dehydrated brine is bad for them but I have this too if that is not true. If pellets, should I give 1mm or 3mm size pellets? They have big mouths


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

I did not see them do this nor are they doing this in my little tank at home. It is a long story but in short, when the guy reached the net in the tank the brevis darted to hide. One went into a pipe and the other into an ornament. The guy proceeded to try and shake the brevis out of the ornament until I told him I would just buy it too so he did not injure my new fish. The other one slid out of the pipe easier and went right into the ornament to hide. They stayed in there while I drip acclimated them then moved them into my tank. This morning they had come out of the ornament and abandoned it for the shells. Each picked a shell in a different pile in the tank. One chose a much smaller shell than the other even though there were bigger shells to choose from.

In the store, there were only two adult brevis which I brought home which were in there for about 6 months every time I was in. There were always plenty of babies. They were in a tang community tank which was sold as a whole to the store from a local. I did not specifically ask but I got the impression that these were not ordered and thus the babies were not coming in on a regular basis. The same fish have been in this tank for a long time so I think there must not be much of a market for them here. To my thinking the babies must have come from the two big brevis right? How fast to brevis fry grow? I would say the babies were 0.75 inch maybe a tad bigger. This is not big enough to produce fry is it (just trying to figure out if one of the babies was really the female?). I am almost sure this is the pair that made the babies just because the others looked too small. Obviously I can not prove it because I only have a snapshot view of each time I went in but it makes sense.

I will try to get a picture but they seemed really shy this morning still. I will try to feed them tonight. What should I offer, pellets, flake or bloodworm? I read dehydrated brine is bad for them but I have this too if that is not true. If pellets, should I give 1mm or 3mm size pellets? They have big mouths


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I'd just give them time then, and see what happens. It'll be obvious in time.

I feed mine pellets. If adults, either size should be fine.



> The guy proceeded to try and shake the brevis out of the ornament


 :roll:


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

I feed mine pellets too!


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

I got home today to find my brevis out and about and not scared of me!!!! I fed them each two 3mm pellets which I will not do again; they made a huge mess but seemed to love them! I also got some good pictures of them.

Brevis 1

















Brevis 2

















Together

















Ignore ugly ornament in center of tank. This is what brevis 2 did not want to come out of.


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## briansbelle (May 24, 2008)

i am no expert by any means... but it looks like you have 2 males, judging by size and fin shape..

does either of them get a yellow tint to their bellies? i have noticed with most brevis including my lamp minutus the females get a yellow tint to their bellies...

hope that helps... 
belle


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

ladybugzcrunch said:


> They are both a good size though around 3 inches, I have to get bigger shells :lol: .


Another look and I would say they are closer to 2 inches and digging away!


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

One kind of whimsical method of sexing brevis is the ones you see are the males. The ones that never ever come out of the shells are the females.

When you put a net in the tank, you can end up with any number and sex of brevis in the same shell.

My guess too would be that you have a couple males. Getting six or eight of the fry would be the surer way to go, plus it may take only a little longer for those fish to grow, up, pair off and breed, than it sometimes takes for an established pair to resume spawning in a new environment.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

The size suggests two males, but not impossible to have a large female. There's nothing indisputable there to me. My adult females maxed out at about 1.5 inches.

I just spent some time looking at mine for a while and there is no difference other than size and coloration (more pronounced yellow spot and striping in the female). Fins and body shape are too similar to differentiate.

Regardless, if they don't color up and show interest in pairing up within the next several days, I'd go trade them for 6-8 of the young ones.


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

Thanks for all the help guys. I watched them for a long time last night and really like them. I have heard that shellies can be shy and hide a lot and so I was worried that I would not be able to enjoy their interesting behavior. These brevis are very cool and are not shy. In the pictures, brevis 1 will not hide from me at all now and seems to be more brute than brevis 2, which is the same behavior I observed in the tank at the store. Brevis 2 is more skittish and will hide if I move too fast but will let me look at it with my face against the glass if I move slowly. It is also very pretty with that neon blue under its eye. Brevis 1 is digging like crazy! Brevis 2 has moved closer to brevis 1, about 4 inches between shells. How close would 2 males live with each other? Honestly, I think I will keep these two even if they are two males because of their attitudes. I like the fact that they are adjusting well and seem to tolerate me staring at them. Maybe I could add a small group of juvies in the future and hope for a female or a female later but for now I think I like them as long as they can live happily together, I guess it does not matter all that much if I was tricked (except for the money part!).


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## briansbelle (May 24, 2008)

brevis are very funny fish.... i have minutus and they arent shy at all, they even eat flakes off of my finger.. :lol:

if it does turn out to be 2 males, you will be fine, there is plenty of room for 2 males in a 24x24 tank... brevis hold the smallest territory of the shellies, IMO. they arent really aggressive, other than defending "their" shell. but that never results in deaths just a quick "hey,my shell" lol

i have gold ocellatus,brevis,and minutus,and for me personally the brevis and minutus are alot more interesting to me than my gold occies, mainly b/c the brevis like to have company, the occies not so much :lol:

the ones you got are good looking , mine are still juvies, and are just now starting to grow into the bulldog faces...i love the underbite 

good luck and looking forward to more updates on these guys opcorn:

also you might be able to add a small group of multies to the tank if you wanted. keep in mind the multis multiply...(hmm never thought of this before but multi=multiply, seems like a good way to remember the name :lol: )

i am going to be moving my shellies and julies around. moving them into a 40 long(48X12x16) and am planning on keeping a pair of julies,8 minutus,pair of punks(maybe, if they get too aggressive i will move them out) and maybe a pair of gobies or a group of multies.

good luck and hope that helps :thumb:


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

Well, I saw the two brevis fighting yesterday, mouth to mouth wide open so I am thinking now there is not much hope for one of them being female  They seem to each stay very close to their shell and do not venture from it yet. Last night I went in and cleaned the tank up a bit. Problem, if a piece of food rolls out of their "space (which is very small)" they will not go out and get it, and there it rots. Can I add a scavenger without having to worry about the brevis hurting it or vice versa? What do you suggest?


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## briansbelle (May 24, 2008)

i would add a petricola of some sort... i dont think thr brevis will mind him actually, and yeah i know about the food rotting part, my shellies dont like to venture far from their shells either...

hope that helps
belle


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Yep, you can add something else. Brevis are pretty much the wimpiest fish in the lake.


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

briansbelle said:


> i would add a petricola of some sort... i dont think thr brevis will mind him actually, and yeah i know about the food rotting part, my shellies dont like to venture far from their shells either...
> 
> hope that helps
> belle


The tank is only 10g. Even though it has a bigger footprint 24x24, do you think the petricola would be happy? Their profile says they like to be in groups in a large tank.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I would add a non cichlid fish of some sort that wil feed on the bottom. Many options, small barb or tetra maybe?? It's been a while since I've kept any, so I may be off on that. Just go observe some at the local shop. My ancistrus would hoover up NLS from the bottom, so that may be an option to try.

I would also say the behavior suggests two males. I've only seen my males do that, never m/f.


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## Aura (Oct 29, 2005)

My "pair" of brevis ended up being two males. They've been living together (one on each side) in a 10 gallon tank for over three years now. I've had no problems keeping a bristlenose with them for algae control.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

And the BN will clean up the bottom too.


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

Can I feed my brevis bits of raw seafood (or should I cook it?) along with pellets?


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