# Time to update everyone about my HUGE project



## lomax

I was planing on a few 1000g tanks, i have the glass and the materials but just can not commit to a tank that i will never be able to move.

So my main tank was going to be a very small 220g that i will make a background for and get running sometime this spring at the latest.

*But i have a habit of changing my mind and just going CRAZY *

i just spent 2 weeks sealing with 12 gallons of Drylock and i need 8 more LOL i have a pump test running and good water movement.

I got 20 4 foot by 6 foot glass all sealed in and water tight OHHHH MY !! that and 3 2 1/2 foot by 12 foot long skylights just giving me tons of light.

I am still working on a rock wall it is 8 feet tall !!!


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## PChap

TFG is gonna be jealous.

Where are the pics at?

So what you putting in it, an alligator?


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## chefkeith

Awesome! I've been looking forward to this for along time.

OMG, did you just say that you used 20 sheets of 4' x 6' glass for this thing?

I need some pic's of this or atleast a sketch. Please.


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## tunerX

Pics would definitely be appreciated.

I haven't finished my 519 and am already planning a 16-20'x4'x2.5'.


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## iceblue

Wow. Can't wait to see this one Lomax.


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## 20 20

What a tease. No pics? No dimensions, other than implied? No equipment or stocking list?

Come on, fess up!


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## lomax

ok before everyone gets crazy, i did not say it was a tank LOL.

it will have water and fish, plus lots and lots of finches.

yes thats right birds.

it is a 12 wide by 16 foot long by 20 foot high atrium, i will have a waterfall on one end running into a indoor pond. Gallonage is not figured out yet as i am still looking for a used hard pond liner.

the whole room was sealed so i can have a irrigation system that makes it RAIN on my indoor jungle. I still have to add a powered vent and finish the sealing, waterfall is half done.

the room never gets below 65 degrees even on the coldest nights, and it has air conditioning for the summer so it does not cook.

not sure what my stocking will be, they have to be able to deal with the colder temps part of the year. it also depends on how big the pond is. i would like something around 800-1000g this could allow me to have some good sized fish. if i go with a pond liner, i will go 3-4 feet deep so i can add some nice reed plants maybe even some water lily's but i am not sure if i have enough light for them.

filtration will be a pond canister hidden under a bench.

a few construction pics, the atrium is in the middle of my house and can be seen from almost every room.


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## lomax

i would have loved to make the lower 8 foot one big tank, but i do not have the 100k it would take to do it LOL


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## tunerX

That was a horrible joke 

I should have known something was different since your last tank had fiberglass and epoxy, while this one was only drylock.


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## Mix

Oooo that would be too cool if the whole room was a tank. Imagine...  Very cool project!

You can always put a heater in your pond and have what ever fish you like cant you?


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## lomax

tunerX said:


> That was a horrible joke
> 
> I should have known something was different since your last tank had fiberglass and epoxy, while this one was only drylock.


well in truth this is still a huge project, with almost 200 sqf in play and it being the heart of the house. if i mess it up there will be no play to hide from it LOL.

even with my very first big tank, i was thinking more about a total environment then just a glass cage. I really loved it when a fern started to grow on my log in the tank, it added an upper space to the tank that was just as cool.

what i would like is a huge pond with the waterfall and small bench i can sit on and watch the fish. the walls will be safe to let vines grow on, i know they can as the old owner had them up all the walls. he removed them just before he put the house on the market, i can still see all the places they were stuck to on the walls. i added mirror panels to the skylight surrounds so i get more light into the space.

So vines and ferns on the walls, tall plants with birds flying around and a fish pond at my feet.

still way cool


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## tunerX

Heat the pond and put a couple Cichla in there. You should only need to heat it a couple months out of the year, and not too much since the ground stays reasonably warm.


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## lomax

true, 65 would be the very coldest the room air would get. the water should stay warmer, as it gets over 70 inside in the day. my electric bills are already very high, so i did not want to heat a large pond.

but i could keep it over 70 without costing to much, the pump can keep the temp up a little also.

the type of fish i get has to look cool from above as i will not have a window

PS and when did the site start using avatars? i just added my insane pic as a avatar


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## tunerX

I don't know about the avatars.

The bass would look really cool especially when they jump to get fed.


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## Turtlemaxxx

the whole thing a tank with a room that fills with water to allow you to enter scuba style for cleaning :!: :lol:

im jealous

-matt


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## lomax

well if i was really crazy i could remove all the plants, dig the dirt out 3 feet. i would have to remove and cut the front windows, the side start 3 feet off of the ground level. then i could fill the whole thing with 6 feet of water, i just have to find a good swimming pool liner.

but i have enough foundation problems as it is so digging a hole in the middle of my house is not going to help. also i am not sure if the windows post could hold the extra water pressure.

but i like the plants, so i have to limit the size of the pond.


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## chefkeith

I'm surprized. Well it ain't a tank. It's an exhibit. Very cool.

my 1st though is that something like this might make a perfect biotope for brackish fish, such as mudskippers, archers, and anableps. Only if you could replicate the tide too.

Here's a website that has many inspiring ideas-
http://www.greenchapter.com/portfolio.php


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## lomax

just started to do the cement work on the waterfalls, man does hydro stop dry FAST



















waterfall is made from some bins i got from wallmart and i then screwed and glued them to the wall. the wall was sealed with drylock, so it can get wet.

i set up a temp bucket on the bottom and the pump so i could adjust the angle the buckets pour.

i will replace this with the pond if it is the hard kind, or if i go with a pond liner i may just put the pond liner into the bucket and use it as a step to the pond.
the pond will be flush with the ground if i use a liner so it will need go into the bucket then overflow into the pond.


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## lomax

chefkeith said:


> I'm surprized. Well it ain't a tank. It's an exhibit. Very cool.
> 
> my 1st though is that something like this might make a perfect biotope for brackish fish, such as mudskippers, archers, and anableps. Only if you could replicate the tide too.
> 
> Here's a website that has many inspiring ideas-
> http://www.greenchapter.com/portfolio.php


i needed to get this room done before i mess with any new tanks, it was going to just be a simple atrium but i could not help putting fish into it. :lol:


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## davidhusker

so what was the room before you started? i mean did you put up the walls and the glass or was that already there?

and is the waterfall going to be like a wall waterfall like those expensive things you can buy, or like a niagra falls type water fall where the waters in the air.


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## lomax

there was a atrium there already but it was in disrepair, it had lots of rot and the glass was almost falling out. i had to reset the glass and do all the repairs, then i sealed ALL the exposed wood with drylock. i even sealed all the way up to the skylights, when i am finished i can just take a hose and spray everything down. the atrium has water, electric, air conditioning, heat and a drain in the middle that goes to the curb.

the water fall is a 3rd option, it starts with a bucket that is tipped towards another and that one goes into the next. i have 4 buckets on the wall, so the water goes back and fourth till it falls into the pond or last bucket on the ground then overflows into the pond.

i used Greatfoam to make the rock shapes, i am covering that with water proof hydo stop cement. the hydro stop is used to make pond waterfalls and it expands as it cures. not sure what i will do after that, i may seal over with drylock tinted if the cement does not look good. i plan on putting ferns and other plants on the falls growing into the buckets. it would be cool if i can get moss and ferns growing over the cement.


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## max in montreal

I once saw on tv, an easy way to plant moss.

find some moss, but it in a blender with some milk.pour it where you want it to grow.

I dont remember the amounts...


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## illy-d

Hey Lomax this is really cool... One thing that immediatley jumped into my mind would be to have an iguana or a turtle or two living in there! When I was down in the Mayan Riviera last year there were iguana's EVERYWHERE! Having one in an atrium with some C/A cichlids would be like having your own little section of Mexico/Guatemala/Belize/Honduras right in your own home!


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## lomax

i am not sure an iguana would mix well with the finches, i think i would end up with one fat iguana. i am not sure even the fish would survive an iguana, turtles would be safe for the birds but not a great mix for most fish.

other problem is i can keep the water temp up but i do not want to have to get a extra heater just for that room. i keep the heat off or very low even during winter, temps can get to mid 60`s for the air but much higher for the water if i have a deep pond.

besides i have tons of cameleons already in the atrium, well they are in the HOUSE generally. here in Houston they are all over and it is hard to keep them out of the house, they run from the 2 inch tan colored ones to a 6 inch green ones.

as for moss, i have not seen any around here. it can get very dry so most moss will die off, i will have to look near the bayous.


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## Nil

Looks cool!

I'd recommend a pond liner instead of a preformed one. Having used both, I can tell you the liners are much easier to work with (you have to get your hole to the *exact* size & shape of a preformed rigid liner).

You might also check out this thread for further inspiriation: 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/35477-700-gal-indoor-sunken-garden-project.html


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## fish-photo-train

I guess it will turn in a beatifull ecosistem, it does have potencial, the green area , water fall, the pond, fish, birds, camaleons, the ligthning will play a very important roll at nigth, i wonder how do you deal not to handle the proyect but handle the wife with a proyect like that   
i guess i nedd some tips for that :-? :-?


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## lomax

well it was already part of the house, next it was causing a huge amount of problems. the walls were t-11 thats textured plywood, the air was shut off. so when the air was on in the rest of the house the inside glass would get covered in condensation, same with all the wooden wall and window frames. this caused lots of rot, but most important it was perfect to grow mold. there was mold growing on the walls, on everything even on the glass.

well if you have tons of mold in a closed up air conditioned house it causes all sorts of problems.

we started to get lost of sinus infections, ear infections and other breathing problems.

it came down to removing the atrium witch was going to be very expensive as it does not have any floor. or doing a full renovation to remove the condensation problem, to stop mold you can remove the water or the food. mold grows on wood, it really like roting wood. so by turning on the air into the room, adding a temperature controlled vent up at the highest point to draw out the hot air it should reduce most of the condensation problems.

still if you are going to have a atrium with plants in it, it has to be watered that and the ground under the house is still wet. wood stays wet a long time and would let the mold grow, but by drylocking everything the water just runs off and it seals the wood from the mold spores.

with this done it would not hurt to have a pond or other water source in the middle of the house, the air in the atrium does not mix with the house air at all now. there is no return to the air conditioner in the room, air comes in and goes out the top vent to the outside.


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## lomax

i just got a nice sized piece of pond liner to use, the sealing of the room is almost done.
I have the water fall all done but a few touch ups that i will need to do after i get the liner down.

bird feeder is bought and ready, i still need to make some nice bird houses. HD only had cheap looking bird houses, i did not want any of the plastic ones.


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## iceblue

How about leaving the birds thier favorite building materials laying around and allow them to build thier own. Might make for an interesting look as long as they don't build it in the waterfall somewhere.


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## lomax

could work, i was planning on using cedar mulch on all the dirt. i have a fig tree in the atrium, it was so tall it was damaging the skylights.so i cut a line in the trunk to kill the top, this will let more light in and make for some nice bare branches. the fig tree will send up side shoots, the tree was already toped more then once.

i got most of the hole for the pond dug, there is very hard pack under the top soil that i think i will not dig through. not looking to get the pick ax out :lol:


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## iceblue

lomax said:


> not looking to get the pick ax out :lol:


 :lol: This is the one tool you can leave out on a job site and nobody will steal it.

Short of using a jackhammer how deep will the pond end up being?


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## lomax

looks like about 2 foot, i would really like to go deeper. the liner i have will allow it and there is no regulations on pond depths IN a house only outside ones.


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## iceblue

Would your space allow for building the pond up instead of down. A natural looking wall built up around the pond would save you from "the pick" and bring the fish closer to your eye at any given point of view. You could also build raised planters into it.


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## lomax

i thought about that but i do not have the space, there are 15 foot tall plants that are in the way that i would like to keep. i only went down about a foot, i was already figuring on it being bermed up a foot also.

i did figure out what my problem was digging there is a layer of bricks down about a foot! it was like that was there first in the atrium and then instead of removing them they just dumped more dirt on them. i will get a few up and see how hard it is to dig below that level.


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## iceblue

To help things along and go deeper you might consider using a water wand. Out here in the desert where I live calichi is a huge problem. When dry it is as hard as concrete and terrible to try and dig . A 3' or 4' piece of 3/8" copper line with a hose connection on one end and piched at the other really helps to soften the ground up. Just hook it to your hose, turn it on full blast and push the copper into the ground around the area you want to dig. Out here in the Mojave thiers a reason they call it a "wonder wand". You wonder why you wasted so much time trying to dig a hole with a pick or digging bar when a little bit of pressurized water softens everything up.


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## lomax

o god i wish that was the problem here, no Houston is built over a swamp. what we have is SUPER SUPER sticky clay, i cant get the stuff off the shovel. even banging the back of the shovel with a hammer does not help, i use a hand garden shovel to scrape the muck off each shovel full.

now what was killing me was just a layer of bricks in under the muck, i was lucky when you build a slab here they scrape the clay and put a layer of "almost sand" down. that was just under the bricks, so they built the house and just paved the atrium with bricks. then at some later time the owner put a foot of soil on top of that.

now when i say almost sand, it not like the sand we had on long island. this sand is mixed with some clay still, it sticks even when it is dry so its a REALLY poor sand.

i got some of the bricks up, and had to stop for the day. it gets tiring when you have 20 pounds of muck sticking to your feet.

some pics


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## JJU

Wouldn't a portable heater work to dry out the ground a bit. I would say leave a couple of industrial fuel heaters on for like 6 months and then return and dig.  Or you could get a couple of chicks who will fan the dirt with Palm frawns long term. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

"GO GO lomax  :thumb: " Your the coolest :!:


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## JJU

I don't think your house is made for the weight of a large build with soil like that. Just fill back in the dirt and buy a plastic pond from some place. Or a kiddie pool perhaps with some nice rocks around it. Nobody would laugh at you. I wouldn't. It would be easier to do that and you have to admit that when you really search ponds they have some really cool ones.


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## JJU

I am by no means calling you a quitter, but I just don't want to see you complain, hurt yourself or be frustrated more then you are. Sounds like your not making much progress cause of the conditions that weren't known. If I were in your neighborhood I would bring you some Ice tea and several lettuce heads. I'm not though. I do encourage you to choose either to go an easier method or go at it for the long term.


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## lomax

ok you really do not seam to comprehend well, my house is built on a slab foundation there is nothing under it but a sand like dirt. the slab was built 18 inches thick with 4 foot deep cement beams every 8 feet in a cross pattern.

But that is besides the point the Atrium has NO floor, it is just dirt like you have out in the woods.

I guess if i put a million pounds on it, then it may effect the surrounding slab. my whole slab going up and down with the soil moisture about 3 inches.

the soil is a bit wet because it rained in the last few days, but we could be in a drought and this horrid clay will still stick to you.

it was not a pain, well it is a bit. but i have built many ponds, a real hard time building a pond is if i have to get explosives involved :lol:

ok now back on subject

i got the hole dug, the muck tamped down and a nice layer of pool sand in.
liner is in and full, i still am working the raised edge i have a few hundred more bricks to place  i got it a bit over 3 foot deep and about 3/4 of the pond and a 1 1/2 foot deep low shallow end.

pics


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## JJU

Uh..........  "GO GO Lomax?"


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## Turtlemaxxx

do we have dimensions of this pond or are ya gonna get out a 10 gallon for reference?  you have gotten more done on your build than i have cleaning my room, and you have done it in less time :lol:

-matt


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## lomax

its about 8 feet long 4 foot wide a 3/4s of it is 3 1/2 feet deep with 1/4 being 1 1/2 feet deep.

because its a odd shape i have no idea yet on the gallonage. my best guess is some place between 500-600 gallons. after i add rocks and plants closer to 500g but will have 20-30 more in waterfall and filter.

I am looking for a used pond filter or a small pool sand filter to use for it.


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## davidhusker

looks 2 ft by 3 ft in the pics


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## lomax

i got the brickwork down, i straighted the walls so they are more vertical so i lost a bit of length. it is just over 7 feet by a 4 foot at its widest and 39 inches deep at the deepest point.

i got some paver bricks to stack against the wall, and some river stone for the bottom.


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## JJU

Did that water come from your Tap/ City line. Its dirty? It's a new pond what gives?

Again......... I say " Go Go Lomax :thumb: Your the coolest. I'm going to have to FLY in and see if we can exchange fish stories...... :wink: " Does the first Monday of Dec 07 work for u? :lol:


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## lomax

a added 6 bags of river rock gravel, i did not bother to wash the gravel as a bit of dirt was not going to harm anything.

i got a Pondmaster 1500, its good for 1000-1200 gallons. that combined with the rough gravel that is in each bucket in the waterfall gives me plenty of filtration.

i added two palms and a jumbo peace lily, got two pair of zebra finches already peeping away in the tree canopy. I was going to wait till the weekend but i dread going to any store around black Friday.

i got a few more plants to add and i need to plant some ferns in the window boxes. then i have to set up the the drip watering system, this will give the birds fresh water and water the window boxes. then it will be time for the cedar mulch, need to get some nesting material for the birds also.

then its adding the bottled filter starter to the pond and a few junk fish to get that going.

really not sure what fish to get, i got to think about what will look good in a pond. i like lots of tangs but they do not look great from above and are mostly small. might go for some mbuna, mostly the cheaper kind. not sure if i can load the pond enough to keep the aggression down with out over powering the pond filter.

cant have any fish that could eat the finches :lol: had a finch freak out already as it landed on a house lizard.


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## illy-d

What about SA/CA cichlids?


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## lomax

i have very little SA or CA experience, i was only 10 the last time i had them and it was just a Oscar, Pike a Jack and a convict. i would like to do some rainbowfish as these are my favorite fish, that and some do show color from above. i would need fish that would be compatible with these and show good color. water PH is 8 and the cement tiles i used to cover the back wall is not going to let it drop much.


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## JJU

So............ " LIKE............ Totally RADICAL!" Why didn't you get pigeons, doves or even those beautiful Grakels that are so beautiful. Or how about some cardnal birds? For fish....... How about paradise fish? Look them up they are pretty fish. I think you will like that. They'll breed sometime. They can withstand the temperature fluxuation. What is the temp on the pond going to be? I saw a pond place link on www.txholeyrocks.com web site on the links page if you wanna know about heaters for ponds. Lilly's grow so well in ponds..... Well most plants do due to the abundance of nutrients and sunlight. 
Again......... I say " Go Go Lomax :thumb: Your the coolest.


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## lomax

not my call on the birds its the wifes thing, also you do not want to add very expensive birds into a space that has not been tested with cheap birds.

we were unsure how the birds would deal with being a huge glassed in room thats in the middle of the house. i have a big home theater setup in the family room, i was worried that the noise from my 7.1 surround system might freak the birds out and make them fly into the windows.

it seams if the birds can deal with all the store noise they can deal with the house noise. this makes me worried about getting birds from a breeder that may not be adjusted to the chaotic environment.

as for fish i will have to see what can be bought locally, i have vet to go to a REAL fish store in Houston. Petsmart does not have good cichlids for sale.

i have a few weeks before the pond is cycled, thats even with the starter stuff.


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## JJU

Can you answer the other ? Or are you not sure yet?
Again......... I say " Go Go Lomax Your the coolest. :thumb:


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## lomax

the pond is up and running, i had to add a 300 watt heater to pick the temp up to above 70. i bought a few rainbowfish just to help cycle the pond, they were the cheap petsmart ones. i was glad i did not get the expensive ones as they did not survive the night. it was my mistake, i have almost adult ones in the outside pond. the water is 50-60 at its coldest and they are still doing great, but i have a big hot submersible pond pump running behind some slate rocks. the water temp at night is warmer back there then it is in the rest of the open pond.

my pond was 67 degrees and the store had them at 85, even with two hours to lower the temp the change was to much. added it was a PH change from 7 to 8.2 also that stressed them out even more. they were also very small. i got the PH to 7.2 and with the temp up to 73 i am thinking the change would not be as drastic. still i will wait a week more for the cycle to get going, i have to add the starter stuff two more times to get the filter going good.

the zebra finches are doing great, they are flying better. they were raised in a small cage so did not know how to fly around in this huge space very well.

























i have got to straiten out the cords etc, plus the small pond bowl that takes the water from the falls has to be cemented so it looks more like a rock. the filter is a pondmaster, with a 1200 gpm pomp. its good for a pond 3 times this size, but i still will add a outside canister as i increase the bio load in the pond. i have 3 underwater pond lights and i will add 3 more that look like rocks on the other side.


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## TheeMon

why finches? i mean parakeets are soo much prettier... maccaws's babies are worth WAY more then there weight in gold and a breeding pair is only 3000-3500$$$


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## lomax

parakeets tend to chew on everything, and well maccaws are way to expensive and time consuming. we want to see a flock of birds in the atrium not just one pair of very expensive and LOUD birds. the atrium is in the middle of the house and if i have a loud bird it will wake us up.

we got zebras because they are cheep and were good to test the room for its bird safety.

we plan on these finches


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## TheeMon

oh wow those are pretty... how much they cost?


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## chefkeith

Those look cool. Now I want some.


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## JJU

Dude :!: Catch a few Grakels and put some doves in your room as well. (I am not talking about the "CHOCOLATE brand" either.) :lol: Ought to give you a great mix of sounds.

I don't like your wish list birds as they look like they are photoshop edited. :?

Do what you want though.


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## JJU

Lomax I found an error I do believe. with a 1200 gpm pomp. Should read 1200gph Right?


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## lomax

yes it is 1200 gph, per m would hit the roof.

the Lady Gouldian finches run from 75$ to 100$ for the normal ones and different color mutations can range up to 300$ for any of the rare colors in a show type bird.

people breed them in outside aviaries here in Houston, but they have young mostly in the spring if they are kept outside. it makes it hard to find them for sale in the off season. the birds come from Australia and there are very few left in the wild as most of the forest habitat that they need has been turned into cattle ranches.

my aim is to have a school of colorful fish and a flock of colorful birds.

oh and we just got one diamond dove, it was the last they had and i need to find him a mate this week.

its funny i have no fish in the pond yet but my wifes two pair of zebra finches are already nesting !!!


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## TheeMon

are you leaving the zebra finches in there too?


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## lomax

yes they can do fine with other types, they are both finches but are very different in size and color so there will be no chance of cross breeding.
\
some finches do not mix well, but as with tanks the bigger the room the easier it is to mix birds. size is more of a issue a a big bird can knock a small finch out of the air or shove it off its perch.


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## lomax

just added more rainbowfish, they seem to be doing fine now.

i got a pair of Gouldian finches but sadly the female did not know how to fly well. she flew as fast as she could straight into the wall, then the glass then the side of the tree, then the wall again.

the problem is the pair was raised in a small cage, it was a hop one wing flap and you hit the other side. putting these birds into a huge space did not work very well as they never learned to fly, BUT they had full grown wing muscles that could make them go fast.

the male had a few head crashes but managed to get up into the domed sky lights. there is a flat area all around the sides they can land on, he flew from side to side and watched the zebra finches fly for a day and started to get it.

i am lucky that the store was going to take the bird back and replace with a new one when the breeder has one ready. 
I asked for one that was raised in a flight cage so they can adapt better to the atrium.


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## avy1219

more pics...........


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## lomax

i made a few changes, i had bricks up against the back wall but removed them as the fish where just hiding behind them. i got to set up the controller for the drip system, and get some more plants placed.

i will take a few more pics as i complete these tasks.


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## Deeda

lomax, you can always purchase some bird netting & hang it up in front of the glass for a few weeks until you have stocked up on your bird list. You could string up some fishing line around the perimeter of the glassed room & use cheap shower curtain hooks to hang the netting. Then just slide them to the sides when you have company. Until they get used to the glass walls, you might be losing a few birds


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## lomax

that sounds like a good idea,

but i have an insane amount of glass i have 20 foot by 16 feet high on both sides and 8 foot high on the front. all the birds i have now seem to be doing fine with there flying, it would be cheaper to buy a big cage and allow the birds to fly more in it. plus i will need to hold new birds for a week or two to check on diseases. all the birds i have got now come from the same source so they have been exposed to each other already.

Or we could just not buy birds from people who raise them in a small cage, most serious breeders around here use large enclosed walking cages outside. we got the first birds from stores as we were impatient, it takes time to get birds from breeders as you have to wait till they have some ready for you. they have birds ready to sell but most are already spoken for long before the birds are fledged.

on the fish front, the cycle fish are still doing fine. i am tracking the cycle and it should be safe to add some more fish soon, but i must still keep them fairly cheap as i am not fully stable yet.


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## cuddlefish

lomax, i really dig this project of yours. I think Oscars would be awesome in the pond. They're hearty and look great from above.

Keep the pics coming, we apartment dwellers look to you to do the kind of stuff we can only dream of.


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## lomax

ok a few more pics

this is my guest, he came in from outside. i call them house lizards :lol:










this is our male diamond dove, he is just taking a nap on the ground.










this is a pond shot, sorry the pics are a little blurry my lens kept fogging up. yes the electric is close to the water, it is on a GFI breaker like all the outside boxes.
i will be fixing the lines so they go behind the pond liner. also you can see the watering timer for the drip and rainmakers. i am still setting the blocks for the edge, they are in place but i have to level them yet.

















I got one of the window boxes done, yes that is a real Orchid with some ivy. 
I still have to fix the drip feed to the post and paint over it with drylock so its not noticeable.

















this is looking in from the door towards the front of the atrium, you can see the back of my front door on the other side of the glass.
I still have a water dish on the ground because the dove has not found the hanging bird batth yet. the bird bath is auto flushed and filled every other day by the rain system.

















These are my first two plants in the waterfall, the top one is a mixed fern, i took it out of the pot 
and filled the box with tree moss and just placed it into the box. the bottom half of the root ball is underwater, that is not a problem with ferns as they grow at waters edge. 
the Bromeliad has its pot bottom cut off and it just hits the water top so it can draw water up.
it also gets splashed a bit too.


----------



## TheeMon

holy ****... can i be your friend? this is just... wow


----------



## bell

since it's an enclosed space it's probably pretty quiet in the house yes? 
how about adding a mic and speaker where you could bring the sound of the birds and such "into" the house 

a simple plate mount (like a light switch) volume control could be used to turn it on and off, you would need a small reciever hidden somewhere though.


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## RayQ

Simply amazing! I wish that I could do something like that! My house is too small and winter is WAAAAYYYY to harsh here. I guess that I will have to continue to enjoy what you have done and maybe one day I can move south :lol:

Ray


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## lomax

bell said:


> since it's an enclosed space it's probably pretty quiet in the house yes?
> how about adding a mic and speaker where you could bring the sound of the birds and such "into" the house
> 
> a simple plate mount (like a light switch) volume control could be used to turn it on and off, you would need a small reciever hidden somewhere though.


o i can hear them just about everywhere, the atrium is the very middle of the house. my living room is to the right the dinning room and kitchen is to the left, the game room is to the back left and my study is to the back right. gladly i can not here them in any of the bed rooms, as they start to make noise at daybreak. i had to tip the fountain over so it would not make as much noise, the splashing noise was messing with the tv sounds.


----------



## lomax

RayQ said:


> Simply amazing! I wish that I could do something like that! My house is too small and winter is WAAAAYYYY to harsh here. I guess that I will have to continue to enjoy what you have done and maybe one day I can move south :lol:
> 
> Ray


i had to turn the air conditioning on today as it hit 80 F and was very humid, its after 9pm and it is still 75 f and it will be in the mid 80s on the weekend.

still this is well above normal even for here.


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## JJU

i had to turn the air conditioning on today as it hit 80 F and was very humid, its after 9pm and it is still 75 f and it will be in the mid 80s on the weekend.

still this is well above normal even for here.

You just need some chicks with palm frawns fanning the air....... :lol:


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## bulldogg7

Nice job, just wandering is there an "airlock" type entrance, or "atrium" forget the name, where you go in a door, shut it, then have to open another door to get in? just to keep the birds in there? Like in a grocery store, 2 sets of doors to keep the cool air in. 
The heck with Disneyworld! I wanna vacation at your place


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## lomax

nope, i have to take a look and make sure there is no birds close to the door. also there is just a hallway wall behind the door so it does not look like a large space the birds could fly into, if it was a large room the birds might be tempted to try and escape.


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## Juppy

> its funny i have no fish in the pond yet but my wifes two pair of zebra finches are already nesting !!!


You do know that zebras breed like thereâ€™s no tomorrow? Youâ€™ll end up with thousands of the little things!!! Gouldians are a nice choice tho, used to have a few of them myself.  Another nice finch would be a grass parrot finch.
Just keep doing what your doing it all looks fantastic!

love your work mate :thumb:


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## damondeionno

Lomax - I'm really impressed with your project. I am planning a double height conservatory off the back of my house - you want to fly over and build it for me?

Regarding the pond and filtration - given the amount of light you've got I reckon you could use marginal plants as an outstanding plant filter. The waterfall could help too. Or maybe a small stream full of emergents. Check out Japanese irises, elephant ears, Soleirolia soleirolii, etc. etc.

That way you'd completely eliminate nitrates from the system and grow awesome jungle plants at the same time - you might not even need a conventional filter at all.

Just a thought.


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## lomax

lighting is not a problem in the winter, but in the summer the pecan tress shade the skylights.

i was going with ferns, and a few other low light plants. still lots of plants are cool but it depends on what fish i have. so far just 4 common rainbowfish( Melanotaenia splendida inornata) and 4 bosman rainbowfish (Melanotaenia boesemani) i will add some cichlids some time this weekend.


----------



## Sav505

Caladiums, elephant ears, and japanese maple do good in shade. Elephant ears might be a little big.


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## lomax

i got elephant ears in the yard, they are about 6 foot tall and 6 foot wide i would very to big. i got some papyrus that is in the out door pond right now, i am planing on moving it.


----------



## lomax

ok i got more fish

3 more rainbow bosmani

and 2 mbuna, the mbuna were from petsmart so i am not so sure what they are.

one looks like a Cynotilapia afra type other is yellow and black with a longer body and i think a Melanochromis type. because of the petsmart mix and the age of the fish its hard to tell.

So i am going Mbuna with rainbowfish as dithers. it makes since as both vics and tangs are almost impossible to find around here. also for a indoor pond mbuna make more since as they are colorful from above.


----------



## calichris

did you get that celling fan at lowes?  i was thinking of getting one how do you like it, beautiful project


----------



## lomax

calichris said:


> did you get that celling fan at lowes?  i was thinking of getting one how do you like it, beautiful project


you mean the double fan, yea its cool :lol:

it moves a good amount of air without making a WOUSHING noise, thats important as i have my HDTV and my 7.1 surronds in that room 

the project is working out ok, i am getting a bit of fungus from the bird seed droppings under the feeder. i had to change my watering pattern, so it has more time to dry out.

i have to get in a place some water plants in the pond plus i have a lot of holy rock in the yard. i am using it in a rock bed in the garden but it may look better in the pond. i will need more filtration as the safest way to keep mbuna is to over stock. my current filtration is not going to cut it for large numbers of fish, i will add a big canister filter before i get to many fish.


----------



## MalawiLover

The "house lizard" is a male green anole. Very common, but kinda cute and a nice bright green with a yellow or red throat flap (in the male).

Love the tank.....Love the house!!


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## lomax

thanks,

i just added two more fish, both zebra mbuna. funny i got zebras flying above and zebras swimming below :lol:


----------



## fishwolfe

more pics,more pics,more pics,more pics,more pics,more pics,more pics,more pics,more pics,more pics,more pics,more pics,more pics,more pics,did i mention more pics


----------



## lomax

ok

some more pics

taking pics of the fish in the pond is NOT easy

so first my papyrus plant that i moved from the out door pond, it is huge but not full size they can get over 10 feet tall.










one of the mbunas










why its hard to take pics of the fish, can you see some of the rainbowfish?










ok here are some good mbuna shots

















and last one more shot of the waterfall


----------



## Guest

That papyrus plant is nice.

Have you thought of putting frogs in your atrium? What about a hummingbird?

Awesome project though... Do you have anymore goals for it?

~Ed


----------



## TheeMon

i say a humming bird and some lizards


----------



## lomax

lizards i have, frogs could be a problem i would have to modify the pond so they can have a ledge and provide a heat light.

hummingbirds are out, i do not know of any being kept out side of a zoo. they are not the type of birds that would do well even in a large space like mine. they need massive amounts of food, even a few hours and they can starve. added to that they are very shy birds that would never really calm down.

the last part is it is VERY ILLEGAL to keep or capture any hummingbirds


----------



## TheeMon

oh i didnt know


----------



## fishwolfe

:thumb: thanks :thumb:


----------



## lomax

ok i just added 4 yellow labs, and 3 red zebras

i have enough fish now in the pond that i can see some schooling, and the mbunas can mix it up without one getting the brunt.


----------



## iceblue

That should be a very cool looking. I've always wondered what a school of Mbuna would look like from above in a pond. Standing on a ladder above my tank is just too goofy. Could you post a pic?


----------



## lomax

working to add some more birds

i am starting to do the finishing touches, i have MANY windows to clean and scape the extra drylock off of.

this is a pic from the kitchen, i can almost get the full hight .
i am still a 4 or 5 feet short, but i can not back up any more LOL the upper windows and still very dirty. 
i have to drag the huge step ladder to even begin to reach up that high.
the atrium still has one more pane to the right that goes toward the dinning room. you can see its 4 wide on the other side.


----------



## bulldogg7

Lions and tigers and bears! Ohno! just birds. 
That's just crazy, my wife won't even let me build a 6 foot terrarium above the TV  (Only 30 gallons of water). Maybe you can beat some sense into her! One of these days. . .

Looking great, You could go camping in your own house! 
Any plans on painting the walls? Or maybe planting some sort of vines beside the waterfall? Hang some Spanish moss? that might be cool, give the birds so nesting material. Looks great like it is, man take a vacation! You deserve it.


----------



## Guest

By the way have you thought of adding Goldfinches? It's a really pretty native yellow finch in my area.

How much did the trees cost? Or were they already in there?

~Ed


----------



## TheeMon

i have pretty gold and green finches around my house too... want me to get out a net?


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## lomax

the big trees were already there,

i have planted vines at the base of the wall, they are the house plant type of vine with the heart shape leaf. in warm climates they can grow out doors, they will go up any wall or tree and the leaves can get almost a foot across. i am not kidding it like the plant changes when you plant it in the ground.

the old owner had them growing up all the walls, but the wood siding they had up was not sealed to handle the roots and moisture. now that i have sealed all the walls and trim with drylock, i have no issues with it growing up all the walls.

as for nests i have a 20 foot tall fig tree that i was going to remove because it was blocking all the light. i cut a ring around the bottom so it would die and leave a nice leafless tree that the birds can use as a perch. what i did not know is fig trees are very tough, if they louse there connection to the roots they start sending down roots from all the branches !!! that looked so cool i let a few hit the ground and keep the tree alive, but i pruned it way back so its not blocking so much light.

as for getting local birds, well it seams strange but it is against the law. you can not capture any wild animal in the USA and use it as a pet. NO birds or even fish, now if the animal is outside of the US then you can get it there and maybe bring it back but you will need a wild animal import permit.


----------



## Guest

Anything new? Any birds lay eggs?


----------



## lomax

nope, the store i buy fish from closed for the holidays. i have not gotten my replacement bird too. its gotten as cold as it ever gets around here with temps getting close to freezing.

i have to rethink my rain system, to much surface water promotes fungus growth in the cast off seed from the bird feeders. this is not good for the birds at all, as they will feed from the ground to get any seed that gets dropped uneaten. i think the best watering will be a drip feed line under the mulch. this will not get the seed wet. i can then just use the rain system once every other week just to wash down all the plants etc of all the bird poo and dust. it will completely dry out with a long water cycle that will keep the fungus from becoming a problem.

i still have to get the vent line installed, i am just not looking forward to climbing around in the attic.


----------



## lomax

ok i am very positive that i got hatch lings from one pare of Zebra finches, i can not tell how many but it sounds like more then two.

i will have to work out a cover for the pond now, when they start to fly they will drown if i do not put a screen over it. not sure how to work that out, a net will get them tangled up, so some form of chicken wire with a frame. that means the papyrus has to come out so i can get a good fit over the bricks. i will have to look up how long till they fledge as my wife has never had zebra finches before. just Parakeets, Love birds and Parrotlets, so breeding zebras are new to us.

on the fish front the Mbunas are doing great but i am having trouble getting there food. the one pet shop has odd hours even when they are not on vacation. Petsmart does not have food for mbuna even though they do sell some.

a trip to petsmart, and i found the food my wife told me about, its a processed finch food that has no shells. so no mess, not sure if i can keep the rain system running or not.


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## avy1219

pics, we need pics..........


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## Guest

You should set up a webcam or make a video of this...

Also try a get pics of the hatchlings...!

Petsmart should have OmegaOne cichlid flakes or veggie flakes which should be fine for mbuna, and you could order food online... What kind of mbuna food are you looking for?


----------



## lomax

veggie flakes are very expensive at petsmart, the omega i seen there has to much fat.

i was looking for a standard spirulina flake, to mix with common fish food flake.

i also have confirmed that both of the normal zeba finch pairs now have hatchlings.
I am sure the white pair will be working on catching up to them as i see them nesting already.


----------



## TheeMon

will the zebra finches and your pretty finches mate?


----------



## Guest

How do birds mate/fertilize eggs anyway?


----------



## lotec25

Marduk,

i think they have to doink first


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## lomax

the zebra finch and the gouldian finch are both from Australia but they are so very different that they ignore each other. same goes for the doves, the zebras treat then no different then any other birds. they just stay out of the way when they land or take off and move when the doves push there way into the feeder.

i got some correct food for the mbuna, the rainbow fish can use some more fat in there diet but the veggie flakes are fine for them also.

typical Texas day, it is now 75 out LOL and the Atrium is getting hot again.


----------



## Guest

How are the hatchlings doing now? Any pics?

Also have you thought of tree spotlights? I think they would look nice at night and such.

Is there anything else you're planning to do in your atrium?


----------



## lomax

i got 6 fledglings with a few more in the top neat coming soon, my poor fish are stuck under a 1/4 wire mesh so the young birds do not drown.

I also finally got my replacement Gouldian female, hope they mate as there young i can sell for a good amount.

the fish seem to be doing great, the zebra mbunas getting bigger fast and getting nasty. he chases all the rainbow fish like crazy but they are so fast he can do no damage.

I will get new pics soon, i have to get a new battery for the camera.


----------



## Guest

lomax said:


> i got 6 fledglings with a few more in the top neat coming soon, my poor fish are stuck under a 1/4 wire mesh so the young birds do not drown.
> 
> I also finally got my replacement Gouldian female, hope they mate as there young i can sell for a good amount.
> 
> the fish seem to be doing great, the zebra mbunas getting bigger fast and getting nasty. he chases all the rainbow fish like crazy but they are so fast he can do no damage.
> 
> I will get new pics soon, i have to get a new battery for the camera.


So what's new? I'd love to see more pics of of the birds. What are you going to do with the hatchlings as they get older?


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## lomax

i lost two of the hatchings as they somehow found there way into the pond despite my wire cover 

i got them out before they messed up the water two much, my catfish had a very big belly!! i did not know they could eat birds but i now guess so. he is a over 6 inches and he only ate the guts out  

i am not to worried they were just cheap zebra finches and i got 4 that are flying and starting to eat seed. the first pair is already building a new nest and i have had to add some egg food to get the hens calcium levels up.

i will get new pics up as soon as i have a nice sunny day, its been dark and raining the last week.


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## OceanDevil

You ok with having 50 finches in there? :lol:


----------



## lomax

well if they do well, i would do the same i did with fish. i would remove the cheaper ones and get more expensive kind that the young can be sold for a good amount of cash.

i did not want do spend a huge amount of money and find out that the room does not work, and they all died. or that they would not breed in the room, they still have some problems with all the glass.

the pond is a problem, but i knew it would be. i will have to get some black netting to go over it if we start to breed more expensive finches. the wire did not fit very well and i did not want to remove the papyrus from the pond. so there were gaps where the fledglings could get in, then they were stuck under the wire. the wire also looked like **** so i removed it soon as i could, cant see my fish very well under it.

the pond has not suffered from all the bird poo that must fall in, all the plants and the waterfall is doing a great job of dealing with the bio load.


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## TheeMon

how bout a sheet of glass over the pond?

or nylon netting? i got a sq yard for 99 cents


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## lomax

glass would be far too big, i plan on the netting as soon as i find some. but it has to be thick enough so it will not wrap around the birds if they do land on it. that and i will have to stretch it very tight across the pond or it will tangle and droop down under the water and drowning the birds anyway.


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## TheeMon

build a big square and then strech the netting on it


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## lomax

ok some new pics and some are of fish LOL

here is a shot of Mbuna, i have yet to set up the pond scape it is still a mess the pond lights are just laying on the bottom and the filter is being held down by a brick. Plus a added bonus shot of my outdoor pond 































now a few bird shots, its not very easy to get them as they fly around and move so much!

First pic is a fledgling just starting to get "her" adult feathers i think it is going to be a female. the second pic is the white male Zebra Finch. 3rd pic is the adult male Zebra and its young. the last pic is a blurry shot of the gold breasted wax wings.


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## Guest

Nice pictures. Anything new with the atrium?

And your last pond picture, is that outside?


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## Izzydawg

:thumb: ...looks like you're havin fun


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## lomax

nope those are inside pond pics 

i got two canaries, and my zebra finches reproduced again !!!! 2nd group of 3 baby birds for the normal colored ones. and 3 baby white ones, i am reaching a point where i will have to start thinning them out !.

fish are getting bigger and nastier too.


----------



## Turtlemaxxx

lomax said:


> i am reaching a point where i will have to start thinning them out !.


Need a cat? I want my roomate's cat gone :lol:


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## Izzydawg

Got any shots of the whole atrium? opcorn:


----------



## lomax

its very hard to take a pic of the whole atrium as i do not have a wide angle lens.

my finches want to take over the world!!! the zebra finches breed like zebra fish!

i got 3 white ones and 7 regular ones, just this week. thats the 2nd group from the regular ones and the first batch from the white ones. i can not even say for shore how many i have


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## TheeMon

how much are they worth? just keep selling the common ones and take that money and buy the "special" ones


----------



## illy-d

lomax said:


> nope those are inside pond pics


Really? One of the pics it looks like there is a road behind the pond and a house across the street? Is that shot taken looking from the Atrium out a window?


----------



## bulldogg7

any more updates?


----------



## Aquanist

illy-d said:


> lomax said:
> 
> 
> 
> nope those are inside pond pics
> 
> 
> 
> Really? One of the pics it looks like there is a road behind the pond and a house across the street? Is that shot taken looking from the Atrium out a window?
Click to expand...




lomax said:


> Plus a added bonus shot of my outdoor pond


----------



## Marshes

I have never seen anything like this before.


----------



## lomax

yes i have made a bird factory, i have over 40 zebra finches and 2 canneries. fish are growing fine but to many leaves fall into the water making it look brownish. the water is not bad just discolored, i am thinking about moving the fish into a unused 220g so i can see them better.


----------



## TheeMon

hey

you should consider inverts for your pond. if you take the fish out. some crayfish? blue crayfish are badass and they would eat the leaves.

or if you want to go traditional pond type, get a tripod carp(it eats plants/leaves/algae/seaweed) so it will keep your pond clear.

btw new pics plz


----------



## cichlid-fan

Hey how about puttin' so koi inside that bad boy, if your gonna take the mbunas out. :idea: :idea: :idea:


----------



## remarkosmoc

wow, that water is clear. The fish look like they are levitating! Very cool project. The only time I mixed birds and fish in the same household it didn't work well. They liked to stand on the edge of the tank and drink from the fast moving water coming out of the filter. They one by one fell into the tank and got trapped. I didn't like keeping the cage closed so I sold em.

That atrium is awesome!


----------



## lomax

i have had a few drown but those were fledglings that can not fly well. the catfish would eat them, but i still get them out as fast as i can and do a water change.

the biggest pain is keeping fresh water for the birds, if i went with a very shallow area then the birds can drink and bath in it. but it would be only a inch deep, so not good for mbuna but i could leave a few of the rainbow fish in.


----------



## remarkosmoc

What about a small basin for the birds that overflows into the pond? A small flow like one of the continuous water change things people do.


----------



## Guest

lomax said:


> yes i have made a bird factory, i have over 40 zebra finches and 2 canneries. fish are growing fine but to many leaves fall into the water making it look brownish. the water is not bad just discolored, i am thinking about moving the fish into a unused 220g so i can see them better.


Have you thought of making a pond/tank? It would involve making an above ground pond but with one side made of glass. My LFS has one in their store, but it has 3 out of 5 sides made of glass (other two are rock).


----------



## lomax

i thought about it but i have a 220g that is sitting empty in my dinning room, it been there for over a year waiting.

as for a tank in the atrium, well i do not want to get into cement work. that would cost many thousands of dollars, my pond was built with left over liner from my outside pond.


----------



## NYjets51

how much money was put into all of that?


----------



## lomax

about 100$ for a waterfall mostly there rest like the liner and pump i already had.


----------



## Guest

Did you ever get a hold of those brightly colored, almost fake looking finches you had your eye on when you first started this?

If I were you I'd consider redoing the pond, this time having a stream run into the pond from a waterfall on the other side of the atrium. It'd be costly and hard work but I think if you do it right it will look fantastic.

What's the square footing in your atrium by the way? Have you thought of putting any small mammals or reptiles in there? Reptiles such as lizards, turtles, garter snakes, or mammals such as chipmunks, rabbits, etc?

~Ed


----------



## lomax

got tons of lizards already, they came in from outside.

other animals would add to the up keep greatly, right now its not very hard to keep going. snakes would be a very bad idea in a room that has small birds.

the very colorful birds did not work out very well, they get spooked to easy and fly into the glass walls. the zebra finch and the orange cheek waxwings seem not to care. the canaries are the best as they are bright yellow and some what tame.

so far the mix of fish and birds works only because do not have water under where the birds roust. if i built a stream then tons of bird poo would get into the water. that and far more baby bird drownings.

this will put the fish at much greater risk, i would have to swap the cichlids for goldfish as they are the only fish that can take such a mess and survive.


----------



## Zack2112

i just have to let you know that this is probley the coolest project i have ever seen


----------



## lomax

well thank you it is not very cool but very hot, got to be 97 in there.
the water is staying about 91 evaporation is helping with the water temp.

birds seem to like the temp, they come from OZ so they have to be used to it.


----------



## Guest

lomax said:


> got tons of lizards already, they came in from outside.
> 
> other animals would add to the up keep greatly, right now its not very hard to keep going. snakes would be a very bad idea in a room that has small birds.
> 
> the very colorful birds did not work out very well, they get spooked to easy and fly into the glass walls. the zebra finch and the orange cheek waxwings seem not to care. the canaries are the best as they are bright yellow and some what tame.
> 
> so far the mix of fish and birds works only because do not have water under where the birds roust. if i built a stream then tons of bird poo would get into the water. that and far more baby bird drownings.
> 
> this will put the fish at much greater risk, i would have to swap the cichlids for goldfish as they are the only fish that can take such a mess and survive.


Garter snakes as far as I know are insect eaters and shouldn't be a problem with the birds. There are some very colorful varieties and are not venomous, just very aggressive.

What about any mammals? There are also some flying squirrels, and lots of other small mammals that can be kept with no risk to the birds..


----------



## lomax

i thought about honey gliders but the biggest thing is room, right now the birds use every spot above ground they can land on. the gliders would put the birds into a panic and they would fly into the windows. i had doves and even they were to much.

last is cost, right now the most expensive animals i have are the canaries. if one died i would be up set, but i have lost 10-15 of the zebra finches and a few of the more expensive finches that did not work in the atrium. i have come to the point that i am not upset when a zebra finch is killed as they reproduce so fast. most were young birds that did not learn about the pond or glass walls fast enough.

i also need to be able to leave the set up too my mom or sister to take care of when i go on vacation. right now its fish food once a day and water for the birds every other day and fill the bird bath with seed every 3 days. last water all the plants every 5 days in the summer and every week in the winter.

adding more food types and needs will make it to hard for someone else to take care of. the lizards can take care of them selfs as they showed up on there own they can leave if they run out of food.


----------



## cubs4ever

lomax, what a cool project and one you can admire all the time. Sorry if I missed it but what about bird poop? Is that a problem? Either in the pond, on the glass or just on the ground? Seems like it would be a maintenance nightmare but maybe it's not as bad as I think. Still though, looks awesome and alot of fun!

John


----------



## Guest

lomax said:


> i thought about honey gliders but the biggest thing is room, right now the birds use every spot above ground they can land on. the gliders would put the birds into a panic and they would fly into the windows. i had doves and even they were to much.
> 
> last is cost, right now the most expensive animals i have are the canaries. if one died i would be up set, but i have lost 10-15 of the zebra finches and a few of the more expensive finches that did not work in the atrium. i have come to the point that i am not upset when a zebra finch is killed as they reproduce so fast. most were young birds that did not learn about the pond or glass walls fast enough.
> 
> i also need to be able to leave the set up too my mom or sister to take care of when i go on vacation. right now its fish food once a day and water for the birds every other day and fill the bird bath with seed every 3 days. last water all the plants every 5 days in the summer and every week in the winter.
> 
> adding more food types and needs will make it to hard for someone else to take care of. the lizards can take care of them selfs as they showed up on there own they can leave if they run out of food.


I'd try and get goldfinches in there....either catch them wild (set up bird feeders with food they like, suspend a net overhead and drop when they're on...just don't tell the spca you did that ) (or steal eggs and raise them like the professionals do), get cage raised ones or black market... They're beautiful little birds and I think they'd be a great addition. There's also the European Goldfinch which is probably easier to get than a goldfinch but it is in no way as pretty as the American Goldfinch.

American Goldfinch









Eastern (American variant) Goldfinch, NJ State Bird (where I live):









European Goldfinch:


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## TNprogrammer

Is all of the bird poop in there a problem?


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