# Belly crawler pike aggression



## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

Okay so as of late (this week) in my 90 gallon (1 Firemouth, 1 bellycrawler pike, 5 silver dollars, 1 juvie oscar) the Firemouth has been lip locking with the pike for dominance, not really anything huge cuz they still hang out together from time to time, but now the firemouth has marks on his face from the lip locking with the pike.

Is this anything I should worry about? Neither of them show any signs of stress at all, slow pectoral fin movement, full color displays and fin extensions, slow calm breathing. My instincts tell me that they're just jostling for dominance in the tank, but let me know what you think.

Here's a video of them - just watch the first 20 seconds






I asked this in the CA section as well since it had to do with my firemouth, but was hoping to get some answers here too *cough cough dwarfpike cough cough*


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## xXGrEeNxTeRrOrXx (Jan 25, 2006)

Doesn't seem to be a real problem right now. There is plenty of room in there for both of them. I don't know much about the dwarf pikes, but if they are anything like the lugubris they can be vicious.

I had a Crenicichla sp Venezuela for about 3 months in a 75g. It was about 4 inches when I bought it and about 8 when I took it back to the store. Grew very fast, ate everything, and was super aggressive. I could only keep 3 male convicts with it as everything else was bullied.

Anyway, if yours continues to grow, just be wary of the potential aggression. Right now everything looks great. Nice firemouth too.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Belly crawlers aren't dwarves, but they are pretty mild. Later on in the video, you see it's the firemouth that is starting the fights. I don't see the pike backing down anytime soon, so keep an eye on the firemouth. He'll keep pushing for a while, but hopefully will eventual stop becuase I am sure the pike will get tired of it eventually and you might get a wounded, or deaded, firemouth.

I had a similiar issue with a jack dempsey and a dwarf pike ... the dempsey kept starting fights (it was 3x the size of the dwarf pike) but it was the one that eventually ended up dead.


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

Okay, and yeah, since the pike was added I added a nic, and i believe the firemouth is at the bottom of the food chain  I've made 3 distinct separate territories for the three of them, but I guess we'll see over time if the firemouth will be okay. Thanks dwarfpike

And btw, since i have you here lol, how big in your experience do bellycrawlers get? I've heard 6, seen almost 8, but wanted to hear it from a definitive source :thumb:


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

The largest I've seen measured is bernie's 6" beast he posted in your central thread. I believe the 8" references you have seen (including bernie's) are using TL, while the 6" are using SL. I've never seen an 8" SL belly crawler before.


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

Okay that's refreshing lol, was worried I had a monster


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

dwarfpike said:


> The largest I've seen measured is bernie's 6" beast he posted in your central thread. I believe the 8" references you have seen (including bernie's) are using TL, while the 6" are using SL. I've never seen an 8" SL belly crawler before.


You might be right about 5-6" reference for belly crawler being an SL measurement (?). But bear in mind, I only had my belly crawler for just over a year. Undoubtably, it would have gotton considerably larger. My aqualog southamerican cichlids 1 lists it as getting 9" (22cm) for males, and is generally fairly conservative for listing sizes. I'm pretty sure all sizes they list are in TL.

Contrary to what you might think, Dwarf Pike, the overwhelming vast majority of aquarists use TL (total length), and not SL (standard length). I understand the reasons to use SL for scientific purposes, but that has very little to do with the aquarium hobby. Especially in older literature, a lot was written in the beginning of the cichlid hobby by ichthyologists, or those involved in the sciences as their profession ----- hence the use of SL. Very few of us will think of a fishes length as excluding the tail. Similarily, if you go fishing, and catch a trophy fish, you can bet the angler will most definately include the tail in the measurement :lol: In more recent aquarium literature, as well as on the internet, TL is by far the more commonly used measurement in the aquarium hobby ----SL, like I mentioned before, primarily for scientific purposes only.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh I know now a days it's mostly TL on the forums and such. Just as I entered the hobby, all my books and magazines were SL. So it's what I use. Alot of internet sources just repost older info though, including stuff from back when SL was the normal length style used in the hobby. So alot of internet sources are a mix of SL and TL without telling you what source they are using.

To me SL just makes more sense. Especially when asking about say waste outputas an example. If I said I had 2 oscars at 14" and 13" ... you would expect the 14" to be putting out more waste. But if that one was a veil tail, and SL was only 10" vs the 12" SL of the other oscar ... just an example.

Yes, I know fisherman use TL ... hence why I post things like "I am an aquarist, not a fisherman, hence I use SL when I post" :lol: I think the idea of monster fish and the whole culture of 'bigger is better' has helped to make the switch in the hobby. Or it could be mostly that I'm just stubborn and set in my ways.


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

Yeah, he's a heck of a fish, really blossomed in my 90 since I moved him out of the 15  can't wait for him to grow!


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

So he got really nasty over the last 4 days, and had to be taken back to my LFS that I got him from  Was leaving marks on my firemouth and stressing out all the other fish in the tank...


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## ebjdftw (Aug 24, 2010)

That stinks Chubbs, what do you have in there now?


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

Just the fm, the silver dollars and the 2" Oscar... Was contemplating a baby .5" GT amongst other things but wasn't sure yet....


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