# Tropheus sick



## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

_Sick Tropheus_

Today my tropheus are a lot less active than usual and I have at least one individual with bulging eyes - see photo. The tank has an automatic water change system, and the filter is running great. Water parameters are ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate, close to 0, pH 7.6, GH 9. They have been that for months. I added some multies recently, which are looking fine, but maybe they introduced something that's a problem for the tropheus. Darn, shouldn't have done that :?

Have added Clout as soon as I noticed there was a problem. Any other advice?

Many thanks

Frank

PS: I just found a dead one in the plants - see photos below. Another one is on the way out - floating upside down. I took both out. What a nightmare!


















_Sick Tropheus_


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

I guess the question is how much Clout should I dose - what it says on the bottle or go higher? Also, should I raise the temperature in addition and/or give salt, or leave it be with the Clout?

Frank

PS: Sorry for the double post - kinda edgy


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi Frank--sorry about your tropheus.

The fish that you found dead: when was the last time you noticed it eating and swimming normally? From your description it sounds like all of the tropheus have been affected at the same time and to close to the same degree? Is that right?

When 'something' comes on fast and seems to effect all fish simoultaneously water quality is the first thing that comes to mind. It sounds like you're right on top of testing, maintenance, etc but perhaps something in your water supply is to blame here. As you know the Tropheus are more sensitive to problems in the water. You might give your water company a call to determine if they've done anything different to the water recently. Then if that checks out I'd do a partial water change of 30-40% and see if the fish perk up any.

Another thing that will hit numerous fish hard and fast is a bacterial infection. It can be internal so you might not see any fuzzy, patchy growth on the outside of the fish. The Clout is primarily for parasites but it does have some ingredients that work on bacterias so it's not a bad choice here especially since we really don't know what we're dealing with. I would go with the package directions but I would also fit in a few larger water changes before and during treatment. Siphon the gravel, too.

There's all kinds of toxins that can get into the tank that won't show up on tests. Soap, gasoline, cleaner residue--paint fumes, etc--the smallest amounts can be extremely toxic to the fish. All the more reason for the increased partial water changes. You want to get whatever MIGHT be in the water, be it parasite, bacteria or soap--OUT.

Let us know how it goes. Very disheartening and frustrating to have something like this going on. Wish I could be of more help.

Robin


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Hi Robin,

Thanks for the advice. I don't think it's the water. I have auto water change systems on my three biggest tanks - 240G frontosa, 125G tropheus, and 75G geophagus. They all get about 10% of new water per day. The other two tanks are perfectly fine, and even in the tropheus tank the four eretmodus that are in there seem unaffected. In my experience they are just about the only fish that are even more touchy with respect to water than tropheus.

Nevertheless, I am doing a big manual water change as we speak, and will then dose Clout again for the water that I replaced. That seems to be the only thing I can do to improve the situation at this stage.

No more casualties so far, the one with the bulging eyes is unchanged, and there are one or potentially two fish with rapid breathing/hanging around near the surface. Please keep fingers crossed for me!

Frank


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm also battling bloat as we speak. I thought my gobies would enjoy the move from a 35 to a 50 gallon, turns out I was wrong.  GL!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

How are the fish today, Frank?

Robin


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Thanks for asking. They are better - I think. I had an opportunity to get some advice from Klaus Steinhaus. Not sure if you know him or know of him, but Klaus has a lot of experience with tropheus. After looking at my pictures he said they probably did not have bloat, and based on that diagnosis advised to stop using Clout and instead start a regimen of:

- doing daily water changes of about 50%
- raise the temperature by 2-3 degrees
- ad 2 tsp salt per 10G, and 
- don't feed.

I have been doing that for 3 days now, and today is the first day I have not lost any fish. All the adult fish I lost were visibly sick when I first discovered the problem, and I don't think any where newly affected after I started to take action. I lost five adult fish:

- 2 found dead immediately
- 2 with very rapid breathing the next day (transferred to a 10G hospital tanks and treated with Clout to no avail), and
- the one with the bulging eyes never visibly got worse but was found dead on day three (yesterday).

In addition I discovered one dead fry in the tank yesterday.

I am pretty much convinced by now that the problem was a bacteria infection introduced by 4 multies I added to the tank recently - although the multies never showed any symptoms. I have since replaced all shells to exclude them as possible cause for further infection. Interestingly, the four Eretmodus I have in the tank also seemed unaffected - probably just luck since there are 19 adult tropheus and many fry that also seem to have escaped unscathed. The most vexing thing might be that I had a very large number of holding females, all of which I don't think are holding at this point, but I am hoping they will again be soon 

Many thanks for your help!

Frank


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

That's great news, Frank. And I appreciate you sharing what you learned from Klaus Steinhaus.

I frequently advise people to use salt for bacterial infections. From what I understand the salt, (sodium chloride) doesn't actually kill the bacteria, (many of which occur naturally in the tank anyways), but rather it prevents the bacteria from adhering to the fish's skin. 
YOur new fish _may have _brought something in with them but another possibility is that the tropheus became stressed with the introduction of new fish and this stress lowered their immune system enough to enable one of the ubiquitous bacterias to overwelm them.

He suggested bumping the temp UP with a bacterial infection? Interesting. With Columnaris--a bacterial infection that seems to be fairly common--the advice is to turn the heat DOWN since this particular bacteria grows faster with warmer water. Did he say what sort of a bacteria he thought it was?And why?

I like the advise for the daily large partial water changes--IMO water changes can cure almost anything! And I also like that you got through it without the use of antibiotics. I probably suggest antibiotics too often even though I usually advise to use them along with increased partial water changes, salt and increased water movement. (The water movement helps prevent the bacteria from attaching to the fish's skin).

Glad your fish are better.

Robin


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