# Another Julidochromis ID



## Jack Stone (Nov 29, 2010)

Howzit,

I think these Julies have paired off, comfortably staying together in a 60cm tank but no fry yet.
Just not sure what species they are, any ideas?


















Just split up and gotten rid of the old Julidochromis pair who were said to be hybrids.
Hoping to breed some quality Julies and not sure if I should be hanging onto this "pair" or not.


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## m1ke715m (Jul 26, 2012)

pics dont load


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

To be honest with you, I think these look like a hybrid, too - maybe J. marlieri X J. transcriptus. Even if you could nail them down as a pure marlieri or other, without the collection point attached (ie: Burundi, Samazi, etc.), they would be less than ideal breeding stock. Most serious hobbyists want to know which area of the lake the species came from. If you are serious about a breeding project, you need to order a specific species with known origins to begin with.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

nmcichlid-aholic said:


> To be honest with you, I think these look like a hybrid, too - maybe J. marlieri X J. transcriptus. Even if you could nail them down as a pure marlieri or other, without the collection point attached (ie: Burundi, Samazi, etc.), they would be less than ideal breeding stock. Most serious hobbyists want to know which area of the lake the species came from. If you are serious about a breeding project, you need to order a specific species with known origins to begin with.


+1.
They could I guess be a variant I have not seen before (some may be hard or imposible to pop into the current species) but without the variant info you assume man made hybrid.

All the best James


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## m1ke715m (Jul 26, 2012)

the problem with julies is that they are often labled wrong.. gombes are marlieris but often sold as transcriptus... the most important thing to get is the collection point when it comes to transcriptus vs marlieri


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

If I had to make a guess, I'd suggest that these are marlieri Gombe x transcriptus hybrids.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Yes, it is difficult to know for sure, and even the scientific data has been very confused over the years. Apparently many of the traditional lines of Julies have been either mixed races or misidentified over the years, unfortunately.

If they did get large, you could call them Marlieri. If they stay small, not sure what you could call them other than generic "Transcriptus", not sure you will ever get "the antwoord". Sorry, not sure these would qualify as "quality" stock.

Were they sold under a name other than just Julidochromis?


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## m1ke715m (Jul 26, 2012)

thats not what ad konings says the difference in transcriptus vs marlieri is in the book... he says that its the lines or absence of lines on the face that seperates them


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

m1ke715m said:


> thats not what ad konings says the difference in transcriptus vs marlieri is in the book... he says that its the lines or absence of lines on the face that seperates them


Yep but we are talking wild stock there. Sadly in captivity its prob more complex due to new hybrids and variant crosses.
I have seen so called J.transcriptus for sale with this under eye line but I do not trust em to be pure anything.

All the best James


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## Jack Stone (Nov 29, 2010)

Okay guys... shot a lot for the replies...
My goal is to breed specimens that look like they're from the wild so I guess I'll be getting rid of this "pair" too.

No problem, next pair, I believe they are fairly good quality Marlieri because there are no differences I can pick up between the 8 specimens... two of which have paired off and are shown below.
Can anybody tell me which locale this lot comes from?

The male - I think









The female - I think









I can get a ball park figure of where they collect (what side of the lake they operate from, and what country of course) but my supplier is unable to pinpoint a locale.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Kalemie and Katoto have some yellow but the other markings or colour do not match.

You sure they are a different pair? They sure look similar.  

All the best James


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Jack Stone said:


> I can get a ball park figure of where they collect (what side of the lake they operate from, and what country of course) but my supplier is unable to pinpoint a locale.


Are you saying these are being sold as wild caught (F0) or first generation (F1) fish? If so, and the supplier is unwilling/unable to give you a collection point, I would be highly skeptical. If they are able to give you the country of origin, that would at least help narrow the search for the specific location, so you may as well ask. As I said before, if you want to breed and distribute them, your customers will want to know.


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## Jack Stone (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks for the help people.

To answer some questions...

If I recall correctly he said they were bred in a pond and mentioned that the company collects on one of the shores of the lake... can't remember which side / country.
I'll call him up and find out which country they came from and get as much detail as I can.

Hahah, certainly a different pair. The second pair are only around 3cm ( just over an inch ), with about 15 fry at the moment, at least two batches.

It's all well to say the customers will want to know but, in this country certainly, nobody does. The brave guess, I guess.
The customers are left to take whatever we can get if there's any hope of owning a Tanganyikan community... or even just some Frontosa.

With Julidochromis I'm beginning to think along the lines of, if they all look the same, let them breed.
I'll hang in... will take more photos of Julidochromis stock soon, suspected Regani, Dickfeldi and Ornatus groups.

If anybody can give me a second and third opinion on the second pair it would be appreciated.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I guess you are down to guessing. As personaly I think the tale you were told is getting a little tall already (from the lake but no location). Me I think they are regular hybrids iether lakeside, Burundi bred or tank or pond.
I did a tour of a SA fish breeding farm years back, I for sure noticed a kind of lack of vigour about hybrids being sold and bred as species without variation details. :wink:

I guess someone might tell you what you want to hear but its not me given the look of em.

All the best James


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I find it strange that they might be collecting wild fish, breeding them in ponds, and can't provide a collection point, just unheard of.

Then we have a clear history of rather mixed up looking fish from the same source... hmmm

Of the more commonly collected Julidochromis, they look most like Gombe, but if so these are terribly marked specimens. If they are uncommon collection sites.. well now we are just guessing. If I am going to attach a collection site to a name, I'll either want to know from the collector what the site was, or for the fish to actually look like what I expect, and these don't. Now I've seen Gombe like these, but they are many generations of tank breeding, and I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole based on poor markings.


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## Jack Stone (Nov 29, 2010)

Howzit,

Yeah no Fogelhund it is a little strange, but stranger things happen.
Oh ja, forgot to mention that all the Julidochromis are from different sources.

PS. The second pair have no yellow markings on their body, just the one fin on each side.

Next, my Regani... which varient? Which species? Should I ask which genus too? Hahah.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

J.regani for sure. No guess on variant as once variant is lost its lost for good.


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