# Stop cichlids digging?



## OrbitalJosh

So, I have always struggled with the problem of my cichlids digging into the sand in my tank. Eventually they would reach the under gravel filter panels and it would make the take look messy.

Recently I added 2 new yellow fin acei to my aquarium and they are digging like never before! There actually doing it as I type!
As you can imagine, the digging is causing a few problems like:
- making the aquarium look messy/un-even
- risk of rocks falling on fish/breaking glass because they are digging under the rocks

Right now, there is a huge mound of sand right at the front of my tank, un-even and messy to look at. Im incredibly OCD aswell, so this is a big problem to me 

What do I do to stop this? Can I? Can I stop them digging under the rocks?


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## aprildawn

There is nothing that you can do. . They are just diggers. Mine are the same way.I take it as entertainment.


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## GTZ

Under gravel filters are sort of old tech nowadays and can prove to be a nitrate harbor in some cases. Removal would certainly solve your problem.
Also, if and when you remove it, rocks placed directly on the glass reduce the likelihood of them dislodging and falling.


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## PfunMo

Some fish live to swim, eat and DIG. The best response I've found is learning to look at it as good exercise. They move it out and I move it back so that we both get some needed exercise!

I would ditch the UG filter when handy. I find they have a way of stopping up and slowing going bad without any indication of a growing problem.


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## DJRansome

And...if perfectly level substrate is your goal, African Rift Lake cichlids are not your fish. :thumb:


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## OrbitalJosh

DJRansome said:


> And...if perfectly level substrate is your goal, African Rift Lake cichlids are not your fish. :thumb:


With all kind regards, I don't mean to offend you here.

Please refrain from telling me whether or not cichlids are my fish are not. I have 3 running tanks with cichlids in them. I am a cichlid breeder. Just the other day I had my yellow fin acei produce around 70 fry. I know what im doing. All I wanted to know is whether or not there was a method of stopping my cichlids from digging. And from other posts, I have realised that there is no method.

Regards

Josh


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## frank1rizzo

I think DJ was just playing with you. Like telling you that if you don't like the sound of chirping, you should not have a bird. Just a round about way of saying that digging comes with the territory, and that if it really gets on your nerves, there are plenty of other cichlid types that never touch the sand.

He never said that they are not your fish, he just said they are not the fish to accompany level sand. Your pets are your decisions of course. :fish:


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## Sub-Mariner

OrbitalJosh said:


> I am a cichlid breeder.


If youre a "breeder" you should know that digging / sifting sand is what cichlids do. :roll:


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## FishFlake

To prevent the rocks from toppling over, don't put them on top of the sand. Set them on the tank bottom, especially if you are setting up rock piles.

Luckily for me, I like that the bottom of my tanks are landscaped a little differently every day. And some days I'm treated to major excavation...


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## vann59

You can limit their digging by putting medium sized rocks on the bottom so that there isn't as much open sand to dig, but they are naturally diggers and I think it's part of what makes them so interesting to watch.

When I got a yellow tail acei, he immediately began a major digging project, trying to remodel the whole tank, but after a while he lost interest and started fraternizing more.


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## fmueller

Personally, I keep cichlids so I can observe the natural behaviors of what are practically wild animals in my own home. Digging is an integral part of most cichlids' natural behavior. I try to set up tanks in a way that allows the fish to display as much of those behaviors as possible in captivity. For example I have exchanged coarse gravel for sand in tanks with small cichlids that could not easily move the gravel.

Personally I find it curious that other people would not be interested in observing those behaviors, but prefer to make the fish behave in a way that they find desirable - like swim in an orderly fashion over a perfectly groomed and level substrate layer. I guess for a long time people have enjoyed training tigers to jump through burning hoops, or teaching monkeys to eat with knife and fork. I had thought we had left that kind of attitude behind us, but I guess not.


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## hauntingurcoma

When mine dig.. i roll up a newspaper and smack on the nose... :lol:


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## Steveboos

In order to deal with digging, i put more substrate in! Simple and looks good!

Also this is the normal activity of the Cichlids we deal with, so you can't stop it, sorry for the bad news.


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## cgmark

Not going to happen. The only thing you can try is putting large pebbles , too big for the fish to move. I watch my fish behavior closely and I try a lot of different things to see how it effects their behavior. If you spend enough time observing what the fish is trying to do you can usually change the decor around to match what they want. Remember that the fish live in the tank and not us and what they want is what matters. I put a plant in a corner and one fish hated it, even attacked it, knocking it loose over and over till I gave in and moved it somewhere else.


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## cgmark

fmueller said:


> Personally I find it curious that other people would not be interested in observing those behaviors, but prefer to make the fish behave in a way that they find desirable - like swim in an orderly fashion over a perfectly groomed and level substrate layer. I guess for a long time people have enjoyed training tigers to jump through burning hoops, or teaching monkeys to eat with knife and fork. I had thought we had left that kind of attitude behind us, but I guess not.


I think that is what is the most fun. Maybe people just throw fish in the tank to make it a display instead of getting something more suitable like a painting they can admire. I like trying different cave setups, different water flow patterns to see what they react to and like the most. 
I put in a red colored night light and learned that my fish hated it. Anytime the light was on they wouldn't go near that part of the tank, so I learned something new about the fish in that tank, they don't like red 

I had a male, my favorite, that I just lost, that would attack all the other fish while I was laying on the couch. He would watch me and if I picked up my leg and placed it on the floor he would dash across the tank to his cave because he knew I was about to stand up and several times I would go to the tank and point my finger at him and yell at him about the chasing, and he would move his head back and forth while opening and closing his mouth from within his cave as if to be defiant to me.


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## OrbitalJosh

Sub-Mariner said:


> OrbitalJosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a cichlid breeder.
> 
> 
> 
> If youre a "breeder" you should know that digging / sifting sand is what cichlids do. :roll:
Click to expand...

I didnt say that I didnt know thats what they did, I was asking for a solution to the problem.


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## fmueller

OrbitalJosh said:


> I was asking for a solution to the problem.


It is very easy to prevent cichlids from digging. You can either use a substrate that is so coarse that they can not move it, or you can use no substrate at all. 'Problem' solved.

The problem with that is that it would stop your cichlids from engaging in a behavior that is natural for them, and you are depriving yourself of the opportunity to observe that behavior. The question is, do you want to do that? Only you can answer that question.


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## Rhinox

OrbitalJosh said:


> Sub-Mariner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OrbitalJosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a cichlid breeder.
> 
> 
> 
> If youre a "breeder" you should know that digging / sifting sand is what cichlids do. :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didnt say that I didnt know thats what they did, I was asking for a solution to the problem.
Click to expand...

I think you are trying to solve a "problem" that most of us do not identify as a problem, and in fact I would gather most of us find the digging to be an endearing feature of the fish that is enjoyable to watch.

How does an undergravel filter even work with sand anyways?


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## lucid_eye

Rhinox, when I first switched to sand in a ten gallon i simply covered the ugf with pantyhose. It worked well. It kept the water crystal clear, however the sand was always littered with food and waste.


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## Is it just me

aprildawn said:


> There is nothing that you can do. . They are just diggers. Mine are the same way.I take it as entertainment.


Diggers?


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## Auballagh

Hello, and welcome to Cichlid Forum! 
I see you have utilized the 'Necromancer' capability of the site? And while yes, there are a couple folks in that posting thread still active on the site, I suspect the OP has since gone on to other 'Cichlid Breeding Adventures' elsewhere....
And yes, a LOT of Cichlid species (both New World and Old World/African) are quite the industrious little diggers in the aquarium. You might be surprised at how much substrate sand that one, or a few determined diggers in a tank can move!


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## Trademark

Under gravel filters work great until they don’t, which is inevitable!


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## Rockfella

New under gravel filter concept by Dr. Novak working good for many. It needs to be tweaked. Substrate 3-4" thick. Air lift tube the size of substrate thickness so 3-4" and water movement very slow : use a low power bubbler.


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## Rockfella

OrbitalJosh said:


> With all kind regards, I don't mean to offend you here.
> 
> Please refrain from telling me whether or not cichlids are my fish are not. I have 3 running tanks with cichlids in them. I am a cichlid breeder. Just the other day I had my yellow fin acei produce around 70 fry. I know what im doing. All I wanted to know is whether or not there was a method of stopping my cichlids from digging. And from other posts, I have realised that there is no method.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Josh


There is. You need a second layer of ugf plates on top of your substrate and put some more sub on top. They will throw the sub here and there and you will see the ugf plates but they won't be able to dig much. Some folks use mesh. I used ugf plates as I already has these. You could try plastic crafts mesh, either black or white.


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## Auballagh

Wow, looks like you have definitely figured this 'digging Cichlid' problem out! Well, at least as far as how their relentless digging efforts can/will disrupt the effectiveness of an Under Gravel Filtration (UGF) system.
-
But, you have to REALLY want that UGF system to build something kind of amazing like this. And unfortunately, the reality for most of us is that the aquarium-keeping community has moved on from this type of filtration system to Hang On Back power filters, Canister filters or even Sump filtration in many cases.
But as you have shown us, (in written description AND pictures - thanks!) the classic and honored old UGF will certainly still work to do the job. 
It's just that most of us have moved on to simpler, cleaner and much easier to maintain modern filtration systems.


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## Rockfella

Auballagh said:


> Wow, looks like you have definitely figured this 'digging Cichlid' problem out! Well, at least as far as how their relentless digging efforts can/will disrupt the effectiveness of an Under Gravel Filtration (UGF) system.
> -
> But, you have to REALLY want that UGF system to build something kind of amazing like this. And unfortunately, the reality for most of us is that the aquarium-keeping community has moved on from this type of filtration system to Hang On Back power filters, Canister filters or even Sump filtration in many cases.
> But as you have shown us, (in written description AND pictures - thanks!) the classic and honored old UGF will certainly still work to do the job.
> It's just that most of us have moved on to simpler, cleaner and much easier to maintain modern filtration systems.


Thanks but I just looked it up online and used what I got . They still like to throw coral sub around and I almost see the plates but they can't dig deep enough to disturb the plenum. I guess we need something really powerful for a well stocked cichlid tank. I do have a top SUMP with BCBs in it and 6x GPH turnover. Not totally relying on the UGF. UGF is cheap and works (of all what I have read) if used the way Dr. Novak recommends (I just started fish keeping in June 2021) and is seldom disturbed.
Pics of my DIY ghetto set up:


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## Auballagh

WHHhhhhaaaaa.......????!!!! 
-
Look at that! I guess I'm definitely gonna have to just start calling you 'Old School'. 
-
Oh man, it's seriously been DECADES since I've seen something built like that! To explain.... 'Back in the day', my uncle had a really big, DIY-Built plywood tank with an above tank sump above it. That wonderful contraption ran off of an actual, external/in-line HOT TUB WATER PUMP, that drew suction from within the aquarium and pumped it up to another plywood-built sort-of trickle filter/sump on top of it. His above tank sump had a filter media section that was filled up with lava rock. A PVC spray bar dumped water from the tank over a plastic drip plate, set on top of the lava rock.
A thermostatically controlled, electric heating element was kept in the bottom of that thing, and two overflows about 4 inches high or so dumped water back into the tank via two independent spray bars. The sump/cabinet thing on his aquarium was mounted much higher than yours at approximately 3 feet above the tank. Oddly enough - I've owned modern below tank sumps that were much louder when running, than his 'old school' design was.
That thing (built in the 70s) made for an extremely clean aquarium to visually look at (municipal design?), and worked like a champ!.


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