# Tell me your Pseudotropheus demasoni story!



## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

So I've had P. demasoni for about six years now and I've had terrible luck with them. I started with about 40-50 in my 125 gallon, most bought from a local breeder for a few bucks each. I also had two 29 gallon tanks that I would use to raise the babies up, about a dozen at a time. I did that probably five or six times, so I added about 50-70 more demasoni to the main tank (125g). I would keep finding dead ones every once in awhile, and some with both eyes pulled out so I had to finish them off myself (YUCK). I've since stopped pulling out the females from the 125g and am now down to only four demasoni, one big male and three females. The females have been through the war and are ripped to shreads, but still alive and one of them is holding.

Anyway, has anyone had success with P. demasoni? I was thinking maybe I should have been pulling out all the males and ended up with a female only tank to eliminate the killings. I've also heard that the less rocks the better, and have seen a tank on YouTube with lots of demasoni, no rock hardly at all. And my local fish store keeps them heavily stocked in tanks with no rocks. My tank has about 300 pounds of lava rock with tons of caves, perhaps it's too much for demasoni? Any ideas out there? I love this fish but can't seem to keep them alive. The good thing is that they don't touch my yellow labs, red zebras, or acei. They just kill each other.


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## II25tolifeII (Dec 22, 2010)

27 dems now at 6 never had a fish die on me before these and all the others in the tank are perfectly fine and 1/2 in afra fry are growing extremely fast so yea I want to get more but I don't want to lose another 300$


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

I have 1 and that's enough, I think they are a hella cool fish but I am glad I didn't go with them and went the route I did. Some people seem to have better luck with them than others?

I am guessing the less rock thing has to with being able to fish the aggressors out at any time?


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

JimA said:


> I am guessing the less rock thing has to with being able to fish the aggressors out at any time?


Dealers/breeders usually have mostly bare to bare tanks with African cichlids. A tank without rocks gives the fish less ways to make territories. With no rocks fish don't get isolated and get mugged, a group out in the open spreads out aggression. I think it also may simplify the pecking order because different fish are not trying to set up their own territories as much. And easier to clean of course.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

All I do is remove sub-dom males as they are rejected. Important to get them out before they get stressed/sick and start a bloat epidemic.

This is pretty continuous in my tank since I have fry maturing in the tank all the time. They swim through the grate between the tank and the background when spit, and then they grow up back there. I fish them out and dump them in the tank as required.

Five years...still going. :thumb:


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## Cromak (Dec 29, 2010)

I have a good story

They all die, end of story hahaha :lol:


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## kyboy (Oct 30, 2009)

In 2003(remember because it was at my old house) I had a spawn from what remained of my group. A 2" female had 18 fry,I had them in a plastic breeder box & started losing a few;
then released them in my 36" 38 gallon tank & they continued to pick each other off until 3 or 4 were left- so I traded in the little devils. Beautiful fish, but haven't tried them again.


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## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

DJRansome said:


> All I do is remove sub-dom males as they are rejected. Important to get them out before they get stressed/sick and start a bloat epidemic.
> 
> This is pretty continuous in my tank since I have fry maturing in the tank all the time. They swim through the grate between the tank and the background when spit, and then they grow up back there. I fish them out and dump them in the tank as required.
> 
> Five years...still going. :thumb:


I'd love to see how you have that set up to automatically get the fry out of the main tank, can you post a pic? In the past I've had to remove all 300 pounds of rock to get out the females and catch them before the spit, at least for my demasoni that I"ve never seen raise a fry in the main tank. For some reason the yellow lab fry have a few that survive every once in awhile.


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## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

kyboy said:


> In 2003(remember because it was at my old house) I had a spawn from what remained of my group. A 2" female had 18 fry,I had them in a plastic breeder box & started losing a few;
> then released them in my 36" 38 gallon tank & they continued to pick each other off until 3 or 4 were left- so I traded in the little devils. Beautiful fish, but haven't tried them again.


You know what is really weird, is that I kept about a dozen in a 29 gallon with just one or two rocks and they were fine, never really picked on each other that much even up to about an inch long. Then as soon as I put them in my 125 they killed each other off. I'm wondering about the rock thing, maybe a bare tank is best for these buggers.

Speaking of demasoni, I went to a local breeder several years ago and he had several pair and he would strip them and put them in a 55 gallon. He had hundreds of the little buggers in there with no rocks at all and they were all in perfect shape.

Come to think of it, I was in a local fish store just today and they had a tank with about 40 of the little guys, about 1.5 inches long and they all looked beautiful. Again no rocks in the tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It's not an automatic thing. It's an in-tank background that has about an inch of space behind it for the filter intakes and heaters. Netting them from back there is a nightmare, LOL.

The rejected sub-doms usually lurk just under the surface.


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## Ahab (Jan 20, 2010)

DJ is a great resource for demasoni & he's absolutely right! I've had my 75 setup with labs & demasoni for almost a year now! I started with 20 then as they matured I just removed 8! 4 of which were larger sub dominant males that the alpha male would chase quite frequently! I then put another 19 juvies in from my fry tank! I do have aggression but I monitor it closely! I also have 35 cichlid stones & 3 pieces of holey rock! The cichlid stones are expensive but IMO totally worth it! They don't affect water parameters & dont displace very much water! I also don't use a net anymore! I just put my hand in the tank & coax the fish into the stone then place my thumb over it & take it out! They love to sleep in them & swim in & around them! Demasoni can be challenging but very worth it! IMO the more hiding places the better! Just be prepared to remove some as they mature!!! :thumb:


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## AlphaWild (Apr 9, 2009)

2.5 years now, no real problems. Started with 12 fry in a 75g with labs and afras (the old pics are in my tank profile). At about the 2" mark, they got feisty and there was fin nippage, but no deaths. I added alot more rock, and started seeing more surviving fry. Lost one fish about 6 months ago, but think it was due to a rock avalanche...can't be sure. I know I have 2M/9F full size adults, and the remaining 6-8 recruits are mixed/unsure. It seems to me that keeping the males down to one or two is the main influence on keeping a happy colony.

*cchardwick*: Did you mean you were pulling females out of your tank trying to leave males? Or that the females were getting beat up?
Edit: Never mind, I read your other post that you were pulling holding females for fry.


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## Paragon (May 24, 2010)

My dems are my "canary" fish. If the water parameters go off by a little too much, they're the first to bloat and die. I've had more than I care to talk about die off, leaving me with about 10-12, including one with advanced swim bladder damage. The dominant male looks so good, though, that I don't want to pull them out!


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## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

I've heard about the bloat thing and I've never lost one to bloat. I only use Spirulina flake food. I've heard if you use a food that has anything but algae that it's too high in protein and they will bloat, but I've never had that problem. Mine always die from 'un-natural causes' LOL.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I added 15 juvies to yellow and white labs in a 55g in April. Almost immediately, I noticed a few not eating and a couple of concave bellies. Ended up losing 2 but saved 4.
Everyone else has been doing fine since. Currently one holding.
They were just over an inch when purchased, around an inch and a half to two inches now.


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## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

I believe I started having some serious demasoni losses when my male passed the three inch mark. He's about four inches now.


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## brucem (Aug 12, 2009)

I have a colony of 25. Over the years all I have pulled out are dead males, and only ever 1 female.

My tank setup is pretty basic. Just a few isolated rocks and 3 small caves, and a couple of fake plants. Dom males occupy the caves, but never leave far. The other fish hover around the isolated rocks.

I did experiment once to see if a large rock pile would work. It didn't. Males would try and own the whole rock pile rather than their small cave or single rock.

I keep mine with yellow and mbamba. There are multiple males from each species and everyone is relatively happy!!

They are a great fish, but it can be difficult to get them to settle down.


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## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

I hear story after story of success with demasoni and a sparcely decorated tank. I believe that is the key: very few rocks or no rocks at all, and just one male per tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Just to be sure there is plenty of confusion...my tank is full of rocks and there are always 3-6 adult males.


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## AlphaWild (Apr 9, 2009)

Mine isn't full of rock, but there's alot of rock in there.


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## Ahab (Jan 20, 2010)

+1 my tank is also full of rocks! I have over 30 cichlid stones & three large pieces of holely rock as well! I went over board & they seem to love it! The more hiding places the better IMO!


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## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

DUDE! This tank just blows me away, check it out. He claims he has about five males in the mix and these are totally peaceful, not at all like the demasoni war zones I've seen. I'm thinking it may be the larger 'Cynotilapia afra' that looks similar and is larger in size that is keeping the dominant place over all of them? Check it out:






Now this is what I've seen in demasoni tanks in this video, this is the same lava rock I have in my tank and the same demasoni aggression I've seen over the years until I got down to one big male and four small females. They seemed to do OK until they reached the size in this video and then they went crazy, even when they were over crowded:


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## DavidH (Mar 11, 2011)

This thread isn't exactly encouraging me to place my order for my demasoni-centric stocking list.

Might be back to the drawing board.


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## Malawi_Marc (Mar 13, 2009)

cchardwick said:


> DUDE! This tank just blows me away, check it out. He claims he has about five males in the mix and these are totally peaceful, not at all like the demasoni war zones I've seen. I'm thinking it may be the larger 'Cynotilapia afra' that looks similar and is larger in size that is keeping the dominant place over all of them? Check it out:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi the first video is my tank 
Yes there is 5 male Demasoni - I know because I've vented them all. I've had many large groups over the years without any major problems!
I add them all together at juvie size.
Here's a couple more videos of mine showing them relaxed.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

DavidH said:


> This thread isn't exactly encouraging me to place my order for my demasoni-centric stocking list.
> 
> Might be back to the drawing board.


Avoid them if you want a "set-it-and-forget-it" tank but do not avoid them because they are unworkable...you can have a successful demasoni tank if you want one. They were my first aquarium fish aside from kid stuff and I've had them for 6 years, a must-have for me.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> This thread isn't exactly encouraging me to place my order for my demasoni-centric stocking list.
> 
> Might be back to the drawing board.


Not to discourage you but I am removing my 25+ from my 180 in favor of Saulosi...

They are workable assuming you want to occasionally deal with removing subdominant fish. I have done that for awhile & realize that I don't want the hassle. Plus, after the Demasoni purchase, I became really enamored with Cyno species & have decided to focus my attention there & don't want to risk losing a prized Cyno to a dominant dem male going postal while I am away for the weekend. I just don't trust them.

Saulosi seems like a great alternative + you get variety with the yellow females...

Just my humble opinion...


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## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

I wish I had about a dozen 125 gallon tanks to experiment with demasoni, one with lots of caves, one with no rocks, one with other larger fish in the mix, one with all demasoni, etc. to see what will work the best.

Right now I have four, one big male and three females about half the size of the male and they never seem to fight anymore, and one female is holding. I'm adding a bunch of marine coral to the tank in hopes of some of the fry surviving in the tank, perhaps if they grow up under the dominance of my very large male demasoni they will behave themselves (and survive).

I'm wondering if you could remove ALL males and have a female only tank. I bet that would work great.


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## TorontoRaptorsFan (May 20, 2005)

I remember paying $60 for a pair of demasoni when aquarium stores started selling them!

Because of their aggressive natures I've found the best way to keep and breed demasoni is to have multiple rock piles. If you have one continuous rock pile the dominant male thinks the entire territory is his and thus the problems begin.

You'll also have to keep a close eye on the tank and remove males if they're getting beat up. I'm switching over again to a mbuna or hap tank and demasoni will certainly be one of the species in my tank again.


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## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

I my current setup that seems to be working well the females are a lot smaller than the one male and there are several places in the rockwork they can hide from the male. The females are spread throughout the tank and keep their distance from the male.


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## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

I'm reading a cichlid textbook and they suggest when adding new fish to rearrange the rocks, and for really agressive fish to remove all the rocks, let them get used to each other for a few days, then put back the rocks. I bet it's the caves in the demasoni tanks that make them really aggressive. I bet if you put a bunch of big caves in any of the peaceful tanks they would go nuts. Conversely, if you removed all rocks but a couple from any tank I bet they would mellow out.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Or you can give them so many caves/females that they don't need to fight over them...


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## car0linab0y (Aug 10, 2009)

I started with about 22. Lost a few, raised some fry, sold a bunch, lost a few more. After the sell-off I had a female that turned murderer. Killed off the best males I had left, and the only other breeding female. She always acted like a male even as a juvi. Wouldn't know she is a she if she hadn't spawned. Added some new Dems this evening and she's already trying to fight the males, even with a mouth full of fresh eggs.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> Added some new Dems this evening and she's already trying to fight the males, even with a mouth full of fresh eggs.


WOW!


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## car0linab0y (Aug 10, 2009)

cantrell00 said:


> > Added some new Dems this evening and she's already trying to fight the males, even with a mouth full of fresh eggs.
> 
> 
> WOW!


yeah... she's a "bad b****" lol


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> yeah... she's a "bad b****" lol


F'real. Those two males just thought they were bada**es, huh?


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## car0linab0y (Aug 10, 2009)

cantrell00 said:


> F'real. Those two males just thought they were bada**es, huh?


Until they met her. What suprises me is the fact that she was holding when I got home. Up til now she's been kicking the s*** out of the one male she hadn't killed off. She finally let him "get some" lol


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

I never asked you but what size tank do you have these guys in?


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## car0linab0y (Aug 10, 2009)

Main tank is a 125 (used to be a 55 when it was just the Dems), 20g grow-out, and 5g hospital tank.


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## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

How much rock do you have in there? You should try pulling out all the rock and see how the aggression is, maybe put one medium piece of slate on one side up against the glass at an angle so they can spwan on it. That's the thing with Demasoni, one big tank and a whole house full of hospital tanks LOL. It's funny, you have a whole tank full of them and brag about how you can raise Demasoni like no one else and then all of the sudden it's a killing zone and everything flops.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> It's funny, you have a whole tank full of them and brag about how you can raise Demasoni like no one else and then all of the sudden it's a killing zone and everything flops.


Pretty common event with Demasoni regardless of the aquarist. The exception IS the exception & the single biggest reason why I had to let them go.


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## cchardwick (Feb 9, 2004)

Well so far my Demasoni have been OK with my P. acei and my Maingano both of which are blue and non-vetically stripped fish, that is except the first Maingano I put in. I think my big Demasoni thought he was food and killed it, but the other one doesn't have a scratch after a couple weeks. If you wanted just one Demasoni you could easily do that as long as you don't have a blue fish with vertical stripes like a Saulosi male or C. Afra. They are amazing fish, I love the bright color. If my last four start to battle to the death the winner will surely be in my tank for his retirement until he dies of old age, then I may get one more (just one). I'm guessing if I knew someone here in Colorado that had demasoni he would eventually give me one of his beat up males from his hospital tank for free.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

I never had issue with my Dems & other species. Them killing each other was my problem. I HAD 35 & just got rid of the last 16.

I know most of their aggression is toward one-another but I have heard horror stories about a male (or female as in carolinaboy's experience) going off the reservation & going on a killing spree. Towards everything.

I have too much tied up in my other fish to take a chance on that happening.. I know the scenario is possible with any species given the right circumstances but Demasoni didn't get their reputation from rumor & second hand info alone..

Best of luck...


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