# Apistogramma trifasciata vs. bitaeniata



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm stuck on choosing a fish between these two. If I choose trifasciata, I can order them today. If I choose bitaeniata, I'll have to wait two weeks. Here are my priorities, and this should hopefully help me choose a fish with your help. I've never kept either of these before.

1.--my absolute ultimate priority--To breed them. I don't know if one of the two species is particularly tough to breed.
2.--a beautiful fish (seems to me like they're both beautiful, but is one known to be particularly more beautiful than the other?
3. It may make more sense to keep the fish that would prefer my water conditions: pH 6.8, GH and KH 2, temp no higher than 80.

If there's anything else that anyone wants to add about these fish, I'd love to hear it! Right now I'm leaning toward trifasciata because it's available now, it's smaller, and I heard somewhere that bitaeniata is tough to breed.

Lastly, the tank is 31.5"x12x16 tall. Is 1m2f a good ratio, or is having a third female better?

Advice/suggestions welcome!


----------



## Cvurb (Apr 12, 2010)

In the Wild A. bitaeniata need a much lower pH (~pH 5), so for breeding your best best is Trifasciata IMHO. For looks they are both amazing!


----------



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

If that's true, then I am definitely going with trifasciata.

The next question is: 2 females or 3? The tank is 31.5x12x16 (about 25 gallons).


----------



## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

There are two forms of _bitaeniata_, you need to know which you would be getting, Red or Blue. The blue form is the one that comes from extreme conditions, and is rarely bred; the Red I've bred, as have several others, in pH around 7.0 with good sex ratios coming out of them. I found _trifasciata _much harder to breed than the Red bits, but easier than the Blue. Red form bits are also much more colorful and attractive than trifas, IMO.

Red form _Apistogramma bitaeniata_


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

One male and two females.

Fine sand substrate. Find some small pieces of driftwood that have either cave like structures under them or have nice branchy bits sticking out. Tie some java moss to the branchy pieces, and tie some anubis nana to the other pieces. Look to plant some java fern or cryptocorynes between the driftwood. Add atleast 4 small caves around the tank, they don't have to be very big caves.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

There is also a yellow form of Bitaeniata.


----------



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Chromedome52, WOW  that picture is beautiful! Since the bitaeniata aren't available yet, I don't know what form they will be. I think that I'm going to get the trifasciata before they run out! I don't want to be left empty handed..err....empty tanked.

DFF: I will do a trio then. It's better that way anyhow. I don't want the tank to be crowded.


----------



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Ok, i asked about what type the bitaeniata are, and the guy said that he considers them to be the "standard form". I'm not really sure which type that implies. Does anyone know?


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I believe the Blue form is the standard form for bitaeniata.


----------



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Thank you 

What made me sad is that this guy told me that his personal favorite was taeniacara candidi and that he had some in stock. I checked them out online and  wow. But they also require pH<6 to breed. That's too bad.  Maybe another time.

I guess my decision is made then! I'm looking forward to my new trifasciatas


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I won't even go near Taeniacara candidi untill I have much, much more experience keeping soft water dwarf cichlids. They do look very nice. I have seen videos where a brood caring female has killed the male. I always have a couple of large breeding nets handy, not for fry, so I can remove the male from the female, but keep himin the same tank. They are a good alternative when you are short of a quarentine tank.


----------



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

DFF, if you can't keep them, who can!? I did read many stories about them where the female killed the male. In fact, one of the articles used the word "annihilation"!

I just wanted to share that I got my trio!!! I can't wait  The guy I ordered them from said that they're small and he can't guarantee 100% that he'll sex them properly, but he said he's fairly sure. I really hope he gets it right. The worst that can happen is that I'll need to place another order in the future. What a shame... :wink:


----------



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

oops...double post


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

*Isis24* I'm far from experienced when it comes to keeping SA dwarf cichlids. They have never been commonly available down here before. We are just glad we have an LFS that specialises in them now. So I'm just taking small steps, and learning as I go.


----------



## Cvurb (Apr 12, 2010)

Ditto on what *DeaFishFloating* said


----------



## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

_Taeniacara _females are not vicious killers from what I've seen, perhaps they are confusing them with _Dicrossus_. While I did not breed _T. candidi _myself (kept getting "pairs" of males, will explain further down) I know three people who have, none had any such problems. The extreme low pH is necessary for wild fish, but two of the breeders involved had tank raised, and they bred successfully at 6.0. Water was naturally very soft, however. I beleive it is the hardness more than the pH that prevents egg fertilization.

My first "pair" cost me $100 plus shipping, and sat in a tank for 4 months without doing anything except posing for pictures. Then the male found the gap by the heater, and went for a long walk off a short pier. Within days the "female" started growing out, and within two weeks was a completely decent looking male. The person who had been selling these "pairs" sold three to folks I knew, and when I checked, all three had similar reports; one had put them into a larger tank and the "female" turned into a second male, another had separated them to fatten up the "female", who then took on full male growth and color.

A couple of years later a friend in Milwaukee got two pair, which he bred in a 15 gallon tank with several large plants in it. Like _Dicrossus_, they seemed to prefer spawning on leaves. His male was still in the tank and was never threatened by the female (second pair was removed at signs of spawning). I also visited a friend in Minnnesota who had basically the same experience with them. What I learned there was that, even at a very small size, females are always yellow. I've seen females as small as 3/4 of an inch that were bright yellow. If someone tries to sell you a "female" _Taeniacara_, and it is brown or dark colored, skip it.

Otherwise, they really aren't that hard to keep, no more than any blackwater Apisto or _Dicrossus_.


----------



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Oh NOW you tell me :roll: 

I'm just kidding... I love hearing personal accounts of keeping fish. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Here's a link to the video I was refering to.
Taeniacara candidi.

And the link to the thread. Also has another video of the pair spawning.
Groundbreaking Taeniacara candidi video.


----------



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Wow. that female really does look proud of herself in that first video.


----------



## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

Well, the guy left and the fish were not fighting, he comes back and the male is dead, doesn't automatically mean the female killed him. The fact that the fins are all intact actually suggests otherwise, as the first step is normally to attack the fins, then the body if the percieved intruder does not leave. She also doesn't attack or even poke at the dead body, which I believe she would have done if she had been trying to run him out of the territory. I would suspect dietary problems, given the red in the belly region (not a normal color in _Taeniacara_).


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Well *japes* was over today and took a happy snap on my pair of bitaeniata. Doesn't quite show his best colours, but better than anything I could manage.

female courting the male.









Male


----------



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

They are gorgeous! Have they spawned for you at all? I hope my trifasciata are half as beautiful.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

No they haven't spawned yet.


----------



## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

If you really want to see Bits display, put two males in the same tank. That's how I got that photo I posted. Spread fins are a territorial display, males usually fold their fins when approaching a female under their territorial umbrella, I guess they don't want to scare them!


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

My male displays all the time to his female. That's when he really fires up. This time it was the female doing the court dance to the male.

I don't have any photos becuase I can't tank decent photos. Where as *japes* is a whiz with his fancy camera and lenses, but he only comes over infrequently, so not may photos.


----------

