# Need help with diy wet/dry and overflow



## rpc07 (Feb 6, 2009)

i built a 10 gallon wet/dry for my 55g tank and i did a test run today here is what happened

First of all i also built a 1 inch pvc overflow and i am running a quiet one 2200 pump which is rated for 581gph at 0 feet i am going to be running it at 3.5 feet which its rated for around 400gph

So i did a test run in the bathtub and the overflow could not keep up with the pump @ 2 feet the pump kept drying out the section in the wet/dry. Here is my question

Is my only option to build a bigger overflow?
or maybe is there air in the system causing the flow to decrease because everytime i stopped the pump i would lose the siphon .
Also since the overflow was only 2 feet in the air im thinking when its mounted to the tank @ almost 4 feet the siphon will be greater?

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks, Ryan


----------



## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

rpc07 said:


> Also since the overflow was only 2 feet in the air im thinking when its mounted to the tank @ almost 4 feet the siphon will be greater?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated
> Thanks, Ryan


Also the pump will push less @ 48". If after setting it at 4' up you still have a starvation problem divert a small percentage back to the pump chamber.


----------



## rarefaction (Aug 6, 2009)

1 inch sucking directly from the tank or an overflow box? You should be able to move 800gph or so though that 1"... how do you prime it?


----------



## rpc07 (Feb 6, 2009)

fox said:


> rpc07 said:
> 
> 
> > Also since the overflow was only 2 feet in the air im thinking when its mounted to the tank @ almost 4 feet the siphon will be greater?
> ...


How would i accomplish this?



rarefaction said:


> 1 inch sucking directly from the tank or an overflow box? You should be able to move 800gph or so though that 1"... how do you prime it?


1 inch directly from the tank no overflow box i took the design from monster fish keeper. i primed it with the air valve siliconed on tp but i think i might have had an air leak from there so i resealed it and will try again tomorrow and see what happens


----------



## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Tee off the return line to the display tank back to the pump well. Then using a ball valve or gate valve divert only what is needed to keep the pump submerged. Make sure you will not overflow the sump when power is off first and foremost then you should be ok.

Its fortunate you did not overflow the display tank with the pump supplying more than the overflow could handle. Good thing your pump chamber was not larger.


----------



## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

1" pvc should be draining around 500-600gph.
it should have no problem keeping up with the quiet1 2200.
also i would install 2 of them. better to have 2 in case 1 fails.
post pic of the sump so we could see if theres any potential flood issue.


----------



## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> air in the system causing the flow to decrease because everytime i stopped the pump i would lose the siphon


Fix this problem first..Even a PVC, pretzle style can start and stop without your repriming it.
If you fix that, you might have solved your other problems as well.


----------



## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

it has an air leak, could be a faulty check valve.
both of mine start everytime after i turn the power off.
i would install a rigid airline prior to installing the checkvalve.
it makes replacing the valve a lot easier when it fails.
is the vent capped?


----------



## rpc07 (Feb 6, 2009)

So im doing test #2

New air valve on the overflow and its doing the same thing this time i have it set up on the tank at full scale, the overflow isnt even close to keeping up with the pump here are some pics maybe you guys can help me out more with these


















Thanks for the help, Ryan


----------



## pupdawg (Jul 20, 2009)

The last pic is hard to see how your PVC overflow design works, and I am unfamiliar with this style of overflow... but:

I can only suggest you buy a HOB overflow. Maybe one with dual 1" drains like an Eshopps PF-1000.

As said earlier a 1" drain will flow 5-600 GPH at the MAX.

With a inside skimmer box (or HOB overflow) you can adjust the amount of water drained by adjusting the height of the inside skimmer box. Your PVC overflow can only do that if you enlarge the diameter or make the inside pipe sit deeper in the tank which would increase water pressure above the opening. This is also a problem if lights go out as the water will continue to drain to the inside pipes depth.... and if its about half of the tank depth then all that water will end up in your sump, which will probably overflow and end up on the floor >>> 50G of water, half is 25G, your sump is only 10G.

The quick and simple fix would be to install a ball valve on the return and throttle the return flow that way. Since your sump volume has a hard time keeping up with the pumps return volume thats what I would do. If however you want to use the full ability of your pump, I would just buy a HOB overflow. They are cheap enough since you did the sump and media part yourself : http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18358

Thats what I would do.


----------



## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

the pump should be fine. something is wrong with the design. i have seen this one before but never tried it. i also tired a pretzel and did not like it. to bulky.

anyway it may be that the outside U is not low enough, could be causing the flow to slow down. and i thought that it only needed another U to go down and not a T with the extra standpipe.

other than that i would say start over. or buy a box. or find a buddy whose got some extra. i got 2-3 laying around. to bad your far away. :dancing:


----------



## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

how are you priming it?
you may just not be priming it properly.
can we have a pic of the overflow showing the height of the inlet?
is the height of the last chamber on the sump close to the top of the tank?
cant really tell from the pic but it looks like this will flood when power goest out.
i would also turn that sump into a wet/dry instead. 
just cut the last chamber in half (less than half) and move it about
2" to the right of the 1 divider. this will also give you more room for flooding.

i have the quiet1 3000 with 2 1" pvc and have no problems. 
were talking about 4-500gph on each drain, but of course they 
will only drain as much as my pump can return to the tank.
in your case, 1 pvc should have no problem keeping up.


----------



## pupdawg (Jul 20, 2009)

I went back and looked at your sump pics and I need to add that even if you get the drain to keep up with your pump, I'm sorry to say that it looks as if water might still overflow the sump if the power goes out.

I would change out the 10G to a 20 or 29G tank for overflow insurance.

And like I said earlier, look into buying a HOB overflow if this drain problem cant be figured out.

I have a DIY wet/dry made out of 2 "plastics" 3-drawer desktop drawers from Home Depot, two 1" bulkheads that I had, a 29G spare tank for the sump, and 4 gal of bio balls, with a Mag 7 as a return pump on my 90G tank.

Now there is no way the eshopps PF-1000 overflow is able to overflow the sump, and the Mag 7 would run dry just as the water line in the main tank touches the center brace if in case I lose the siphon. This is what you also need to check on your sump system to prevent any spill overs.


----------



## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

a 10 gallon set up as a wet/dry will more than handle
the flooding issue. it would probably have more than 5gallon
for safety. my 125 gallon is only draining about 2gal or so when power 
goes out. 
so its really how he set up the inlet for the pvc overflow and
if he follows what i said about cutting the last divider and moving
it by the 1st, he should have more than enough room for error.
but first, lets try to figure out why its not draining properly.


----------



## BangMx (Jul 27, 2009)

i was wondering how you attatched the primeing hose to the pvc?


----------



## rarefaction (Aug 6, 2009)

Stupid question, in the photo it looks like the T is stepping down to 3/4" or some kind of street 90. Is this correct? I still think it may not be priming properly, looks like it should flow pretty good once the air is out, regardless of drain height. Also the Eshopps PF-800 is rated at "up to 800gph" and has a 1" standpipe. Now I didn't breakout my slide rule, but I suspect 1" pipe isn't your issue. All those elbows are going to cause most of the drag.


----------



## rpc07 (Feb 6, 2009)

A little update i built a 1.5 inch pvc overflow which more then keeps up with the 2200 and painted black you barely notice it in the tank, i also did the mods mentioned to the sump and did many power outage tests the sump only fills from about half way to maybe 3/4's full it also holds a siphon and starts right back up and if it doesnt the little amount of water that gets pumped into the main tank does not flood it

Thanks for all your help, Ryan


----------



## rarefaction (Aug 6, 2009)

How is the noise level? Is it silent?


----------



## rpc07 (Feb 6, 2009)

not silent but not to bad i put a cap over the stand pipe with a hole drilled and that toned it down a ton


----------



## rarefaction (Aug 6, 2009)

Try using an air valve in that cap, you can dial it in. Can send you a photo tomorrow if you like.


----------



## rpc07 (Feb 6, 2009)

rarefaction said:


> Try using an air valve in that cap, you can dial it in. Can send you a photo tomorrow if you like.


Yeah that would be great ill pm you my email addy


----------



## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

post some pics. we'd like to see the improvements.


----------



## rarefaction (Aug 6, 2009)

Not the best shot but you should get the idea. This one was trial and error... I drilled the tiny hole first... too small. Then I added the green air valve (just a cheap plastic standard LFS air valve) and opened it all the way... still too small, water level would fluctuate rapidly allowing air in the inlet. So I added the black valve and eventually removed the valve section from the green one since it was wide open anyway. By closing the black valve you can adjust the amount of air (or height of the water) in the stand pipe. I use an overflow box, but the concept is the same for this cap. I've been told the only way to silence the pipe is to restrict the return to the sump with a ball valve. I don't have a backup drain yet so I haven't tried it personally. To risky if the ball valve clogs.


----------



## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

I would suspect the overflow box would clog before the ball valve.

On the two tanks I have that use sumps I use ball valves and 1-1/4" hose on the drain. to quiet them I just barely close the valve. It would take a pretty large obstruction to block it suddenly.


----------



## rarefaction (Aug 6, 2009)

fox said:


> I would suspect the overflow box would clog before the ball valve.---
> It would take a pretty large obstruction to block it suddenly.


Like an adventurous fish? That's my worst fear. I also have a small recording studio in the basement below... I take no chances with flood scenarios, call me paranoid. This is my first sump and I'm still nervous. But you are right, the U tube would most likely clog first. That's the other reason I'd like an inconspicuous back up inside the overflow box. (inside the tank) I'm thinking of modifying that trap design as a slower yet higher inlet by raising that T to near the tank rim. As my prefilter clogs and slows flow (this would take over 3 weeks if ignored to noticeably reduce flow), drain #2 picks up the slack and gets noisy to alarm us of the trouble. Dunno yet, still thinking. Anyway the current overflow is very quiet, and I think it was you *fox* that told me about the ball valve. I'll get around to it.


----------



## rarefaction (Aug 6, 2009)

I put in that ball valve on the return today, guess I was feeling brave. I don't really hear a difference. Maybe a little quieter. I might change the hose to something thicker, that might help too. Sorry to derail, I should start my own thread.


----------



## rpc07 (Feb 6, 2009)

Hey guys here are some updated pics of the full install

Here is a head on shot of the overflow ( I still need to paint the adapter thats white at the top so it blends in)









Here is the inlet to the wet/dry under my tank









Front view with the door open wet/dry and fluval 304









And a shot behind the tank 









Enjoy and thanks again for everyones help, Ryan


----------



## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

glad to hear its working fine.
your 1st one probably had an air leak somewhere. thats the only reason it
wouldnt re-start.


----------

