# overly aggressive geo?



## lil_gold_ram (Mar 1, 2011)

People have been drilling into my head that geos are group fish...ugh....I have a 2 juruparis, 2 baja reds, 2 bandits (in the eartheater family, still counts Haha) and 1 biotodoma wavrini. None of them are bigger than maybe 3 inches. My male baja red constantly harrasses my bigger jurupari and the wavrini, I had to put him in time out last night but he escaped.....also the bigger jurupari constantly picks on the smaller one. I'm thinking maybe I should put my baja pair in my 30 gallon but I know my bolivian ram will not be too happy since he harrasses anything that looks like him. Do you think I should rearrange the 75 they are in to see if that helps with the chasing? My wavrini is starting to get stressed....he is my favorite fish so I can't let that happen.


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

Baja Reds are _brasiliensis _ complex 'Geophagus', and are not group lovers. The _brasiliensis _types are probably going to be removed from _Geophagus _one of these days. They are large, moderately aggressive fish, and not a good mix with most other Eartheater types.

In point of fact, you have no true _Geophagus _in the bunch. _Satanoperca _(your "Jurupari", probably is _leucosticta_) are group lovers, as are _Biotodoma_. _Guianacara _is not so much, they tend to pair off IME. However, they are not as aggressive as the _brasiliensis _types.


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## lil_gold_ram (Mar 1, 2011)

So that being said, should I move the bajas?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

When people say these are schooling fish and should be kept in groups of 6 or more etc, they mean keeping one species in a group of six or more of the same species. Not keeping six or more fish of different genus and/or species of eartheaters as a "school".

You have three different genus of eartheaters and one species that's not a true eartheater at all (the 'Geophagus' sp. "Bahia Red" - they're not even Geophagus species, hence the ' ', they're part of the braziliensis complex). The Bahia Red will grow larger than your other fish, they are a more aggressive species, even more so amongst thier own kind (which is pretty usual for cichlids, and is known as conspecific aggression), and should not be kept with true eartheaters. Bahia Red grow large, upwards of 12 inches, and should be kept in large tanks, possibly 6 foot tanks or larger.

These fish will not recognise each other as belonging to one school. Basically you are keeping two individual fish from a couple of genus. The dominant of each pair will pick on the subdominat of each pair. And because you only have two of each species, the aggression will be constant, as you do not have enough fish of each species for the dominant fishes aggression to be spread amongst several fish of it's own species. Add to this, the dominat Bahia Red bullying the whole tank.

The dominant Satanoperca will pick on the subdominant one. Lee Newman often advises these fish should be kept in a school of atleast six and tanks 6 feet long or larger. While Satanoperca will display a certain level of conspecific aggression, they are not generally aggressive towards other species and are easily dominanted by more aggressive species.

In a 75 gallon tank, I would consider keeping six Biotodoma or six Guianacara in tank that has a fine sand substrate (pool filter sand is good), lots of driftwood, root and/or branch structure, and a lots of dead leaves spread about.

I will try and find a thread by dutchdude of his Guianacara tank. It's very well scaped for these smaller eartheaters.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/inde ... er&u=35517

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/inde ... er&u=35517


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## lil_gold_ram (Mar 1, 2011)

I was told by more than 1 person that you can mix and match eartheaters to make a group. My tank has sand and driftwood, maybe someone should have replied to my stocklist thread before I went ahead with it.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

lil_gold_ram said:


> I was told by more than 1 person that you can mix and match eartheaters to make a group. My tank has sand and driftwood, maybe someone should have replied to my stocklist thread before I went ahead with it.


Can't say I recall your stocklist thread, I would have definately responded if I saw this proposed mix of fish.

As for being told what may work, or what fish can be kept together, well...

I have singled you out for giving poor advice in regards to dwarf cichlids to other forum members. I'd say you recieved poor information in this regards.

I started keeping cichlids in 2006, my first cichlids were eartheaters. I spent a good six months researching what fish to keep and how to keep them before I even bought my first tank. I read a lot of species profiles online, I bought the book South American Eartheaters by Thomas Weidner (it cost me $120), basically I did a lot of research. When I started talking to people on forums and in LFS I quickly worked out who knew what they were talking about and who didn't.

Still, I made many mistakes. I'm no where near perfect, but I saved myself and my fish many dramas by doing the ground work first.


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## lil_gold_ram (Mar 1, 2011)

I didn't give advice, it was my own thread you are talking about and still I have no issues in that tank soooo....sometimes things that aren't supposed to work end up ok. And really you shouldn't be singling anyone out. If you feel the need to express how superior you are then that really says it all.

Anyways the person at my lfs that sold me the bajas said they may be semi aggressive as they get bigger, but he did not mention the size they would grow to, they might not even be true bajas because that particular store has mislabeled fish in the past.

And its funny how many people told me that mixing species was ok and that it worked for them.....I too quickly found out who I can trust in the forums and who I ignore, people that have a need to attack my threads to make themselves feel smart generally get ignored and I find their advice is most of the time worth not taking into account.

The person who owns my lfs has owned it for years and has 40+ tanks of his own at home, so far he has been a reliable source and he has also told me that mixing species was ok.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

*lil_gold_ram*, did you buy the Bahai reds from your LFS? I would be concerned if your reliable source of information didn't tell you everything about the fish you were purchasing. And if you know they had mislabled fish in the past, and you have concerns about the identity of the fish you were going to purchase, didn't that ring a couple of alarm bells to find out what you were buying.

LFS are in the business to make money. There are plenty of stories on here where people have recieved poor information from thier LFS they thought were reliable.

If you don't want to take my advice, well it's no skin off my nose. My concern in past threads were for other peoples fish and in this thread, your fish. I've got no other agenda here. I don't know you, you asked a question and I answered to the best of my ability.

Mixing eartheater species can work, but it's about mixing the appropriate species with each other, in the appropriate sized tank, with the appropriate number of each species. But this also requires the buyer giving the LFS as much information as possible.

As for your specific mix, it's a poor mix, as I mentioned above.

If you want to mix eartheater species, I suggest a 6x2x2 tank is a good start. That way you have enough room to fit two compatible species with the right ratio of fish.


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## lil_gold_ram (Mar 1, 2011)

Seeing as how the owner of the store is a friend of mine and has been to my house he knows exactly what's in my tanks, even the 30 gallon you disagree with so much.

As I stated above he did mention they might be aggressive but never mentioned the size which bothers me more at the moment.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2011)

Why don't you choose which Eartheater species you like best then sell or trade the other ones to get more of the ones you like. If you have a 75 gallon tank that would be perfect for a species only tank of Eartheaters that don't get too big. What size tanks do you have and what are your stock lists?


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## lil_gold_ram (Mar 1, 2011)

I'm actually leaving right now to go to the lfs and trade my bajas in. It's a 75 gallon with angels geos and cories.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2011)

What other tanks do you have besides the 75? And what stock do you have in those tanks? So what will the stock now be?- angels, cories,1 wavrini, 2 juruparis, and 2 bandits in the 75.


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## lil_gold_ram (Mar 1, 2011)

Yes I just traded in the 2 bajas and got another bandit cichlid, I wanted another jurupari but the only ones they had were full grown and expensive. I have 2 other tanks. One is a 30 gallon with 2 electric blue balloon rams, 2 angels, 1 Bolivian ram and a male fire red apisto agassizzi. I had 2 kribs in there but I gave them to a friend because they were a pair and I didn't want chaos in the tank if they spawned. I have no issues in that tank at all. The other is a 10 gallon with Pygmy cories, glolight rasboras and shrimp.


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## smitty (May 7, 2004)

When it comes to fish I have learned not to predicts anything.


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## Raylans_girl (Aug 11, 2011)

I know this thread is old but I've kept geos and ran into a similar problem. YES you can mix them, well brasilliensis I wouldn't mess with cuz they can get nasty but anyway, you can mix them, you just have to keep enough of each species to spread out the bickering, which would result in needing a bigger tank. Watch out with those bandit cichlids too, they tend to bicker amongst themselves, especially the males.


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