# New 75G - need some advice



## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Hi. I just set up a 75g tank and have it cycling. Currently nothing in the tank but a couple anubias nana and java fern. Caves are setup from granite pieces and I have two main cave 'complexes' one on each end of the tank. Middle area is somewhat open with pieces of granite pointing up vertically to provide a bit of a visual barrier between the two ends.

It's been about 10 years since I've had a cichlid tank and while I'm not a complete newb I'm not sure where to go with this. My goals look something like this:


> 1. Colorful mix of at least two species, up to three max.
> 2. One synodontis cat.
> 3. I'd like the possibility of breeding but don't want a bunch of mass murder going on by nasty cranky males/pairs.


Off the cuff my inclination would be to start with a group of leleupei, julies, and cyprichromis.

Thoughts please? Thanks in advance.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Leleupi are colorful but nasty so I would skip those. What about shellies?


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

Given point #3, the _N. leleupi_ are just too aggressive for your aims. That said, one _Julidochromis_ species plus a nice school of _Cyprichromis_ should work just fine. If you chose one of the smaller Julies, like _J. ornatus_ or _J. transcriptus_, you could also add a shell dweller. I'd avoid _L. ocellatus_, as they can get pretty aggressive, but other than that pretty much any shellie would work. I'd go with _N. brevis_ myself, but that's just personal preference. Another nice option in lieu of the shellies would be _N. caudopunctatus_. Good luck!


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Thanks for the ideas! I do like shell dwellers but am looking for a bit more color if I can get away with it.

Would a group of 8-10 cyprichromis and a group of 4-6 julidochromis get along OK with a single leleupi? That way you do have the one specimen and no possibility of pairing off. Assuming though, they wouldn't hybridize with the julies..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If color is your goal, I would choose fish from Lake Malawi as opposed to Lake Tanganyika. Also why limit to one Synodontis? Some of the solitary synos hide all the time. Gregarious types are Synodontis lucipinnis and prefer to be kept in groups of five.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Been my past experience that most of the colorful varieties from Malawi tend to be a problem with aggression. Trying to steer clear if I may this go-around.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

IME a single anything from Lake Tang in a Lake Tang community just hides. When you go Tang you go for behavior as opposed to shocking colors like the leleupi.

What about new world?


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

Riptide said:


> Thanks for the ideas! I do like shell dwellers but am looking for a bit more color if I can get away with it.
> 
> Would a group of 8-10 cyprichromis and a group of 4-6 julidochromis get along OK with a single leleupi? That way you do have the one specimen and no possibility of pairing off. Assuming though, they wouldn't hybridize with the julies..?


(1) _N. caudopunctatus_ are very pretty, with a bit more color than the shellies.








​(2) 8-10 (or even more) _Cyps_ plus 4-6 _Julies_ is a great idea, but forget the _N. leleupi_, because even single specimens can be abundantly nasty.


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## Florida Chester (10 mo ago)

If you get one of the yellow colored Julie’s, they will have that yellow splash of color. 

I love Julie’s. I currently have 3 Julidichromis Regaini ’Black‘ variety in a tang tank. One pair, and a 3rd wheel. I bought 4 to start. They did nothing but battle from the moment I put them in the tank. 1 died within 2 days. The boss Regaini (believed to be a female) kept the other two on the opposite side of the tank. She has a nice large rock structure and there is a smaller rock structure on the other side. 

Over the next month, one of the two moved in with the boss. I haven’t seen fry yet. The pair tend to stay in their cave a lot. The 3rd wheel has made a home on the opposite side of the tank in his rock cave. He has terraformed it to his liking. Have several in and outs. Likes to poke his head out of one of the cave entrances and watch the comings and goings of the aquarium. I see him more than the other two combined. They do like their seclusion, so if you want a fish out all the time, they are not the ones for you, but very interesting in there own way.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

If I hop on it I can pick up a group of six Julidochromis Regani Kipilli F1 right now. Seems like that wouldn't be a bad start for the tank. I've google imaged this species and they seem to have some very nice coloration.

I've more or less settled on Cyprichromis for the second species in the tank at this point but there isn't a lot of options out there at the moment to order from and I'm not sure what species I'd even want to go with yet. Which one might compliment the J. Regani Kipilli the best.

This is a 75g tank. Is 10 cyprichromis and 6 julidochromis going to be pushing it?

EDIT: The neo caudopunctatus are also available tank raised. While maybe not _quite_ as striking as the julies they do look nice. I may have to let my wife choose on this one as now I'm sort of undecided between the two.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would get non-jumbo cyps...Cyprichromis leptosoma. The males can be solid blue or blue with yellow markings. I like the all-blue ones, but matter of opinion.

Regani are a larger julidochromis...not one of the smaller species that sir_keith specified if you want a 3rd species.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Looks like ornatus and transcriptus are available currently. Both of which stay on the smaller side and have some nice coloration to them.

The paradox of choice seems to be involved. Probably going to be easier to punt and have my wife make the decision after narrowing this down to a few options. 

I am going to hold off on the cyps until I get the tank settled down for now and do some more research.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

With the smaller julidochromis you can have both the julis and the caudos.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Is a group of six smaller julidochromis and six caudos PLUS 10 smaller cyps going to be pushing it for a 75g tank?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Remember the julidochromis and caudopunctatus may form a pair and drive the other four fish from the tank. Then you will have 2 pairs and the cyps. I don't see a reason why it would not work.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

Riptide said:


> Is a group of six smaller julidochromis and six caudos PLUS 10 smaller cyps going to be pushing it for a 75g tank?


Sounds like a good mix. If set up properly, there is no reason you can't keep at least 4 breeding pairs of these particular bottom dwellers in a 75, and if you keep the Cyps happy and well-fed they should produce fry as well. I have a nice _C. leptostoma_ colony in a 125 (along with other fishes) that started out with 12 Cyps and now numbers more than twice that without any intervention from me. Good luck.


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## The Fish Lady (7 mo ago)

Riptide said:


> Hi. I just set up a 75g tank and have it cycling. Currently nothing in the tank but a couple anubias nana and java fern. Caves are setup from granite pieces and I have two main cave 'complexes' one on each end of the tank. Middle area is somewhat open with pieces of granite pointing up vertically to provide a bit of a visual barrier between the two ends.
> 
> It's been about 10 years since I've had a cichlid tank and while I'm not a complete newb I'm not sure where to go with this. My goals look something like this:
> 
> ...


Hi!😃 nice to meet you!😃
I just love Blue Dolphins and you could get like 1 male and 2 females! Whatya think?
You have a nice big tank.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Six caudos on the way!

For flake food is this stuff decent?

Tetra TetraCichlid Balanced Diet Flakes Food for Cichlids


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would not do dolphins in a 75G.

I would not feed Tetra products. Look for New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula 1mm sinking pellets. Order online. OR Northfin Cichlid Formula sinking pellets.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

DJRansome said:


> I would not do dolphins in a 75G.
> 
> I would not feed Tetra products. Look for New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula 1mm sinking pellets. Order online. OR Northfin Cichlid Formula sinking pellets.


The fish I’m getting are pretty small. 1-1.5”
Are there any flake type foods that are good?
Thanks


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I believe both NLS and Northfin have flake versions.


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## The Fish Lady (7 mo ago)

Riptide said:


> Six caudos on the way!
> 
> For flake food is this stuff decent?
> 
> Tetra TetraCichlid Balanced Diet Flakes Food for Cichlids


Hi!😃 
Just food (pun included!😂😂) for thought. We use Seachem green/w garlic flake food along with everything else we feed, which is actually around the spectrum!😃 but, anyways, the garlic protects your babies from pretty much everything! If the poor babies aren't sick beforehand though, of course. We NEVER have any problems with Ich, parasites, they'll always healthy...nowww...if we could just be warned about nitrates and such, it'd be a perfect hobby...really!!😂😂


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## Florida Chester (10 mo ago)

Northfin did just come out with a new Cichlid flake that looks good. Sera makes top quality pellet and flake. New Life Spectrum makes excellent pellet (haven’t seen a flake from them), that is a popular pellet. Most pellet can be had in a small size. For smaller fish though, I do prefer feeding flake to pellet.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

Florida Chester said:


> Northfin did just come out with a new Cichlid flake that looks good. Sera makes top quality pellet and flake. New Life Spectrum makes excellent pellet (haven’t seen a flake from them), that is a popular pellet. Most pellet can be had in a small size. For smaller fish though, I do prefer feeding flake to pellet.


I agree.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

I have some NF on the way now from Chewy. Seems like you can only get the big 350g jar.

I ordered (6) of the caudopunctatus from [_Vendor Name Removed_]. Price and shipping seemed reasonable. Hopefully they all make it here OK. Ideally this Friday. Not sure when they'll ship out though.

After they settle down and the tank runs for a while the next addition will be a group of julidochromis ornatus. And then after that cyps to finish off the setup.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Sorry to bump this thread guys but the tank which was setup last weekend has gotten quite cloudy all the sudden and there is evidently a bloom going on in there. I noticed this yesterday and proceeded to add quickstart to the tank. This morning however the issue has not gotten any better.

Do I need to delay adding fish to the aquarium at this point and wait for this to clear?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

How did you cycle the tank? If the cloudiness is white, it is a bacteria bloom. Ideally the bacteria that are currently in the water column will settle on your media. If the caudos are already on their way, it will not hurt them (as long as ammonia and nitrite are zero and nitrate continues to increase).

If you have not ordered them why not wait? Did you disturb the substrate at all?


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

It's not a substrate disturbance. The cause is most definitely a bloom.

They are ordered however I may be able to stop them from shipping if I act quickly. I don't have a kit (yet) so can't do any testing today.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Test kit before fish...how can you know the tank is cycled and/or safe for the fish?


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

My impression of quick start was you add that and can basically add fish pretty much immediately.

I have an ammonia tester getting here tomorrow. So if there is a problem I can stay out ahead of it with water changes. Or just screw it for now and ask to delay the shipment of caudos.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Oh no.... 


Riptide said:


> My impression of quick start was you add that and can basically add fish pretty much immediately.


This situation went from not good - to really BAD - really fast! 
And yes, if you can still shut down that shipment of these expensive Cichlids you have purchased?
_*DO IT!!!*_
You are having some fundamental problems with the water and chemistry of your tank. Things you need to sort out and correct before putting those very nice fish in that aquarium.
An API Master Test Kit is probably the very next purchase you should make.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

I emailed them asking to delay. Well see if they can.
I was under the impression that most people dont do fishless cycling any more and that you are supposed to add some fish to help establish the tank. That is incorrect?


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

That would be incorrect.
If your fish delivery has been successfully postponed?
- Test the water! IF you have ANY measurable Ammonia or Nitrites? Your tank is not finished cycling. Do not introduce any fish into what could surely be a lethal, or at the very least, harmful environment.
-
If your fish delivery is now - On The Way?
- REALLY Test the water! Get more of that starter stuff, and marinate your biological filtration media in it. But, most of all - get established filtration from another fully cycled/old/running normally - freshwater aquarium. And get that thing or stuff running immediately on your new aquarium. THAT act alone will turn your now 'new' aquarium almost instantly into an established, safe, running normally type aquarium for your fish.
-
And well, maybe the gods of freshwater fish husbandry will smile upon you if your fish are delivered while you are actively dealing (fighting) with a still cycling tank.... but, your fish and life certainly won't. Daily water changes. Constant checks for Ammonia and Nitrite that seem to NEVER go away. It's awful!
Avoiding all of that pain? Is why we seriously still *DO* Fishless Cycling.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

They can’t delay so I will pick up some stress coat and a nitrite/nitrate tester tonight at petsmart. The starter fluid was added yesterday per the instructions. I’m not sure I want to just dump a whole bunch more in there. I have an ammonia kit on the way too.

I can do daily water changes if needed. Not a problem. Those are ten times easier with freshwater tanks and a python vs dealing with saltwater. Been there done that.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Oh man.... 
I'm really sorry to hear that. 
-
Best advice I can offer now that WILL fix this problem? Is to somehow get established filtration (or at least fully colonized filtration media) from a fully cycled/established aquarium) and place it on your tank.
Trust me on this: You'll avoid the really unpleasant cycling tank thing altogether, if you can do that.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Assuming the bloom is bad and we have a toxicity issue in the first place. Which we may.

Ill see what they have at petsmart tonight. Maybe they can share a piece of a filter or a dash of gravel. Even a rock from a tank might help.


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## Florida Chester (10 mo ago)

FYI. Have have tried several of those quick start products to help speed up the tank cycling. In my opinion, they are a complete waste of time and money, and didn’t help


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Good luck with it. From experience... Petsmart will be kinda, 'meh' on helping you with this problem. Best bets as follows,

1) Friend, relative or close associate has an aquarium(s) and will loan you filtration they can spare until your tank has safely completed the cycling process.
2) The LFS (Mom & Pop?) has an extra air-driven, fully established sponge filter running on a now empty tank. Hopefully they will sell it to you (rent?). Putting that thing into your tank will almost instantly fix the cycling problem.
-
But.... if you are ultimately left with a zip-loc bag filled with some brown, tattered looking filter floss, gravel or some other less optimal source of beneficial filtration bacteria? DO NOT DESPAIR! You will have a precious object(s) with which to perform 'inoculation' procedures on the Biological filter media of your aquarium. Doing that procedure successfully, can shorten the cycling time for newly established aquariums, in dramatic fashion.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Buy a master freshwater test kit with liquid reagents and test tubes...it will have pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests...all essential. You will be testing daily.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

What can be done will be done. I’ll swing by petsmart and get a kit, some stress coat, and hopefully something with a bit of biofilm to add on way home from work tonight.


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## The Fish Lady (7 mo ago)

Riptide said:


> They can’t delay so I will pick up some stress coat and a nitrite/nitrate tester tonight at petsmart. The starter fluid was added yesterday per the instructions. I’m not sure I want to just dump a whole bunch more in there. I have an ammonia kit on the way too.
> 
> I can do daily water changes if needed. Not a problem. Those are ten times easier with freshwater tanks and a python vs dealing with saltwater. Been there done that.


Hi!😃
Just for FYI, a uv light will most definitely quicken the situation as you do the other things that really need to be done as well!😃


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

I tested ammonia last night and it was at or close to zero.

Before I add the fish late this afternoon I'll test again and also test for nitrites. If I see evidence of a spike then I'll immediately change 25-50% of the water out, re-test, and if levels are knocked down add the fish at that point. Then continue daily monitoring for a while.

Bloom seems to be clearing up a little bit. I added an anubias (possibly frazeri) to the tank yesterday that I picked up at petco. They had no filter media to share with me unfortunately so this was the best I could do and hopefully it added a little bit of helpful bacteria to the water.

I'm aware that the bloom seemingly clearing up a bit is no guarantee of anything really. I'll be forced to daily monitor this for a while and be ready to react if ammonia or nitrite levels spike out of hand.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

That all sounds pretrty good. And yeah.... I suspected Petsmart was gonna come up short on this one for you.
Yep, keep checking the Ammonia and Nitrite. And just like you stated - be ready with those water changes to quickly dilute things down in there, if they start getting toxic on you.
And lastly, check also for Nitrates. It's a VERY good sign If you detect any, and the measured levels of that stuff keep going up. 
-
And just an idea... What are you filtering this aquarium with? Would it be possible to purchase a 10 gallon tank and push another (HOB type?) filter in that little tank - independent of the 75G - with a fishless cycle process? You could then add the separate/cycled HOB filter onto the 75G, if it completes the cycling process (hopefully) before the main tank does....


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

I have a couple penguin 350 running with bio-wheels going and they've been up for about a week now.

I've run canister filters in the past but IME a couple HOB that turn the water over often enough are plenty once things get going. At this point we just need to get off the ground.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Hmmmm.....


Riptide said:


> I have a couple penguin 350 running with bio-wheels going and they've been up for about a week now.


Well, just a thought... but, maybe you could pull one of those Penguin 350's off of the 75G and get it sited on a little 10 gallon aquarium (future quarantine tank?). Then, while you are basically 'babying' and nursing the 75G along to keep your new little Cichlid arrivals alive - you could just SLAM the other HOB mounted on the 10 gallon tank with a LOT of dosed Ammonia. I'm talking pushing 2 - 4 PPM measured levels of Ammonia for the 10G HOB - a lethal dose! That should really speed up the Cycling process along for the 10G mounted HOB at least. And, if you manage to get that one HOB cycled up with a good colony of beneficial bacteria? Your fish will be safe. You'll be home free! 
-
Oh and.... Bonus!








Power Filter "Tricks" - Penguin 330


Penguin 330 - Power Filter Tricks by William McReynolds Performing these steps will convert this relatively inexpensive, (humble?) little power filter, into a high performance, biological filtration monster! The trick to accomplishing this feat, is aeration of the customizable media trays...




www.cichlid-forum.com




Once that tank is cycled.... Get rid of the carbon in those cartridge filters. Long-term use of activated carbon/charcoal has been positively linked as a causal agent for HITH/HLLE in Cichlids, plus other problems. For my own aquariums, I only use Activated Carbon/Charcoal as a temporary measure to remove medications out of the water.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

This thread makes me think about the old days, before the big-box fish stores even _existed_, when you could easily obtain a used sponge filter (or some 'glass wool' from an established HOB filter; remember that?) from any LFS. Of course, this whole mess could have been avoided with a bit of foreknowledge.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Well to be fair the quick start and add fish action I took was based in reading around in the net. Thats why I thought fishless cycling was not required any more.

I do miss LFS. They seem to have practically disappeared. :/

I’ll check out the article posted earlier about the penguins and bio media. Thanks


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

Riptide said:


> ...Well to be fair the quick start and add fish action I took was based in reading around in the net. Thats why I thought fishless cycling was not required any more...


Nothing could be further from the truth. The internet is not subject to quality control, so information and misinformation occur in approximately equal measure. That's why authoritative sources (like books, whether in print or online) are still the gold standards for reliable information, not the hearsay that tends to get posted and reposted _ad nauseum_ online. Good luck.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

All six arrived alive and are acclimating in the ship bag now. Ammonia and nitrite presently read zero. Water is still cloudy just not as bad as it was early yesterday.


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## Florida Chester (10 mo ago)

Riptide said:


> All six arrived alive and are acclimating in the ship bag now. Ammonia and nitrite presently read zero. Water is still cloudy just not as bad as it was early yesterday.


Since you do not currently have anything in the tank, the ammonia and nitrite should be zero. The issue will arise once you get the fish in the tank, and have that constant ammonia releasing going on. Will the tank be able to convert the ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. In my experience it takes around a week or two for the ammonia to nitrite process to kick in. The nitrite to nitrate is longer, somewhere around a month, so somewhere around six weeks total. This is with or without the QuickStart added. The process will take longer doing multiple water changes.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Fishless cycling would have to produce ammonia sooner or later somehow otherwise how would the tank cycle.

Not arguing with you btw. I’m not real surprised values were low to zero when I checked. Thw fish are small which works towards my advantage in this situation. Ill be checking daily for values. Probably will burn through the test chemicals before this is over.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

Riptide said:


> ...Fishless cycling would have to produce ammonia sooner or later somehow otherwise how would the tank cycle...


You spike it.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Well they made it through the night. Will test the water this afternoon before their first feeding. Wish this bloom would go away but I’m probably stuck with it for a while. I think I’m seeing a film from it starting to coat the rocks and the leaves on the anubias. Kinda gross but not much I can do until things calm down.


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## The Fish Lady (7 mo ago)

Riptide said:


> Well they made it through the night. Will test the water this afternoon before their first feeding. Wish this bloom would go away but I’m probably stuck with it for a while. I think I’m seeing a film from it starting to coat the rocks and the leaves on the anubias. Kinda gross but not much I can do until things calm down.


Hi!😃
As I've mentioned before uv lights/systems are great for this issue. 
I'm glad that your babies are doing fine, this is a blessing!😃


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

There is a couple of those in stock at petco. I thought about it. The cloudiness should clear eventually on it’s own with patience. Never needed one of these before.

That said it would clear up the water quickly no doubt.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

The last thing you want to do in this pre-cycled tank is to inhibit bacterial growth with a germicidal lamp.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

They’re still kicking this morning. Will test water and feed in a few hours. Got a few more small plants for the tank today too.


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## The Fish Lady (7 mo ago)

Riptide said:


> They’re still kicking this morning. Will test water and feed in a few hours. Got a few more small plants for the tank today too.


Hi!😃
This is awesome though!! You must being doing something correct; right?
The added plants will help!😃


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Hmmmmm....


The Fish Lady said:


> The added plants will help!😃


Sorry, that recommendation is only _PARTIALLY CORRECT_. And in fact, may actually be detrimental to fixing this problem for the OP.
Why? The answer is per the thread link below, and in my quoted response









Which group of cichlids are right for me?


So I am currently cycling a 29 gallon tank. I used to, 6-7+ years ago, be very into the hobby with several Malawi/Mbuna tanks. Then I got married, had kids, and sold everything cause life was so busy. Now I am getting back into the hobby and going back to my love of cichlids. And I don't really...




www.cichlid-forum.com







Auballagh said:


> Plus.... DON'T introduce any aquatic plants to the aquarium, until it is fully cycled. Reason is, the plants are quite greedy with their appetites for Ammonia and Nitrite. Even to the extent that they will keep the beneficial bacteria you need from growing out properly in your biological filtration media. So, once the tank is cycled and the filtration media is properly colonized with the bacteria colony you need - then add those plants and start setting up the tank. That way, if the plants have any problems or setbacks, your biological filtration media will be able to pick up the slack and keep the tank safe for your fish.


So, to get the best results from the OP's live Aquatic Plants AND those now non-cycled HOB filters to help with this problem?

Pull one of the non-cycled HOBs off of the 75 gallon tank (as recommended earlier), and place it in a separate tank or tub and just basically *SLAM IT* with dosed Ammonium Chloride to perform a fishless cycle on it.
Add even more live aquatic plants to the 75 gallon tank, as healthy/actively growing plants will actively consume the toxic Ammonia and Nitrite from the water in the still cycling tank to protect the newly introduced Cichlids.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

I agree with @Auballagh: the last thing you need right now is more variables in the system. You will need to do water changes frequently, as dictated by your NH4/NO2 test results, but you don't want the plants to compete with the nitrifying bacteria you are trying to establish in the system. Once the tank is fully cycled, it is the nitrifying bacteria, not the plants, that will carry out most of the oxidation of ammonia to nitrate, and unless the plants are thriving, they may actually increase the nitrogen bioload, not decrease it.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

OK adding more plants is on hold for now.

The fish have been doing OK and so far I haven't seen ammonia or nitrite spikes in the tests I've been doing every 24 hours. They are out roaming around, eating OK and the larger caudopunctatus is busy digging in the sand.

The bloom that was clouding things up is still there but has subsided quite a bit. This weekend I will be doing a 25% water change regardless of how the water tests and will do the first cleaning of the glass.

I will let things settle down for another 2-3 weeks at least before I look at putting the j. transcriptus in there.


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## The Fish Lady (7 mo ago)

Riptide said:


> OK adding more plants is on hold for now.
> 
> The fish have been doing OK and so far I haven't seen ammonia or nitrite spikes in the tests I've been doing every 24 hours. They are out roaming around, eating OK and the larger caudopunctatus is busy digging in the sand.
> 
> ...


Hi!😃
Sounds like you have everything in control then!😃


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

The fish seem to be doing well so far and have continued digging small burrows around the larger base stones on the rock formations. I've been keeping an eye on this to make sure they don't destabilize anything significant and cause a collapse.

Ammonia has continued to test zero. I have however observed some nitrite spiking going on. Levels that aren't real high but high enough to register on the second bar in the test kit. I have already performed one water change to address the initial spike but the level continues to creep back up. Will be changing more water this evening after work and it seems frequent and continuous changes will be needed to stay ahead of it.

Hopefully this will settle down in the next couple weeks and I can move to regular 1-2 week water changes and start looking at locating the next group of fish to add, j. ornatus.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Be careful. With the live aquatic plants in that tank, they are interfering with the cycling process of your aquarium. Don't stock with any more fish until you get consistent ZERO's on the test kit for both Ammonia and Nitrite.
Plus, your industrious little diggers will undermine your rocks and could cause some pretty disastrous rock-falls in the tank. Best way to prevent that problem, is to ensure the lowest rocks on the pile are all seated down directly onto the bottom glass of the aquarium.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Fish are still doing OK. Water is now pretty much crystal clear sans the micro bubbles from all the cavitation due to running a couple somewhat large HOB power filters. I'd forgotten how those tend to stir things up to the degree they do. Great for oxygenation in the water but a minor annoyance from an aesthetic perspective.

Nitrite spikes are still happening and I'm needing to stay out ahead of it with water changes. Been doing 50% every 2-3 days and the fish don't seem to care.

Am now experiencing a brown diatom bloom showing up on the surface of rocks and on the play sand substrate. Most likely nothing I can really do about that, nor should I do, except let it cycle out over time. Just another new tank teething thing. Play sand not helping with that either but saving a lot of money by using it over other sand substrate choices has a cost of it's own. This is part of it.

Couple photos attached here.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Love those caudos. I'll have to get some this fall.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Quick update on things. Tank is going OK so far. It's been going through a diatom bloom that has just recently started to subside a bit it seems. Some green algae is now coming in on rocks.

Nitrite and ammonia spikes are no longer happening that I've observed. Went almost a week now without doing a water change and no issues there. Went ahead and did a water change last night.

Filled the media baskets in the penguin 350s with some stuff I got off amazon for bio filtration. Once those are established in a week or so I'm going to pull the wheels out to clear out micro bubbles in the tank. After that's all done and settled then I can start thinking about adding a few more plants and possibly get an order in for j. ornatus.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would wait 2 weeks for bacteria to transfer from old media to new.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

+1 to @DJRansome 
-
Or, as is sometimes said in the military when things have to go right the first time?
'_SLOW - IS FAST'_


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

Or as is often said when approaching a corner on a racetrack-
_'IN SLOW - OUT FAST!'_


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Bit of an update here.

I added the rest of the fish this weekend. Six j. ornatus and twelve c. leptosoma. These are all smaller fish, roughly about the same as the n. caudopunctatus already in the tank with the exception of the larger dominant male punctatus.

Everyone is eating and survived the trip. However, I'm having issues now with aggression. The caudopunctatus are just being nasty to the newcomers in particular the cyps who seem more delicate and not really interested in getting grouchy back. I was pretty upset this morning when I noticed one of them had almost the entirety of their caudal fin gone. That fish is still swimming around and eating like the rest.

Not sure what I can do about this. If things don't settle down in the next 2-3 days I'm going to tear out most of the interior of the tank and completely rearrange it. Should that not resolve the issue then at that point I'll be forced to remove someone and take them to the LFS for a re-home. I'm a little disappointed with this since I had thought the punctatus were more peaceful than this and would co-exist. But having been added first they seem to think they own the place.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Cyps are often the least aggressive and IME they are sold on the small side. Could you stick the caudos in your hospital/quarntine tank until the cyps grow out a little and/or establish territories?

Do they have high caves? Mine were happy with the ledges in my 3D background but people often put tall pieces of slate leaning against the background near the waterline.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

I have that one big resin structure in the middle which is very tall. Thats it though for tall structures and ledges.

I have one group of 8 cyps that hang out on the right side and a smaller group on the left. The smaller group hangs out in the left upper corner and seems to be the worse for wear.

I’m feeding twice daily now to help cut down any aggression from that side of things. After work tomorrow I may remove and redo the interior anyway to try and help even if theres no issues tonight. Change water same time.

I don’t have a second tank. If I cant resolve the issue then someone is going to be evicted.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

Update:

Things have settled down quite a bit now. Water quality is nice and clear. The fish are all doing well with the exception of two cyps.

Of the 12 cyps I got there are two that are starving and refuse to eat. They are otherwise fine and are not being pestered by any of the other tank mates. They are a little darker than the others but that is the only difference I can see.

I've read a couple other threads and there isn't anything that can be done here. They may have gone blind for reasons unknown or were so traumatized by shipment that it caused the problem. I can only speculate. I've tried live baby brine and had zero result. They just will not eat even with food right in front of them. Sad, but they're goners I think.

I'd like to add a few more cyp leptosoma utinta when they come back into stock and maybe some nerite snails. Beyond that though the tank is more or less done.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

Riptide said:


> ...Of the 12 cyps I got there are two that are starving and refuse to eat. They are otherwise fine and are not being pestered by any of the other tank mates. They are a little darker than the others but that is the only difference I can see.
> 
> I've read a couple other threads and there isn't anything that can be done here. They may have gone blind for reasons unknown or were so traumatized by shipment that it caused the problem. I can only speculate. I've tried live baby brine and had zero result. They just will not eat even with food right in front of them. Sad, but they're goners I think...


Sadly, I think you're probably right. _Cyprichromis_ are very active fishes, and expend lots of energy every day, so they need lots of nourishment. If they are stressed or otherwise compromised, they gradually waste away until ultimately they reach the condition you describe, which is difficult to rescue. It can be done (sometimes), but generally requires that you move them into a different tank.

My guess is that these fishes were already compromised when you got them, as they rarely get proper long-term care in holding tanks. With so many people viewing Cyps as just 'dithers,' they rarely get the care and attention they deserve, but under the right conditions, they are stunning and interesting fishes.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

I'm a little upset about it and have considered culling them humanely. However, there is a chance albeit it remote that they may come around. I'm not sure I want to deprive them of that. I am continuing to hatch and feed baby brine. The other fish go crazy for it.

I definitely think these fish are more than just some dither and honestly expect them to be the center piece of the tank once they get big enough to start showing coloration and come into their own. Really looking forward to it! They are slow growers though and even stuffing themselves on baby brine and northfin flake - will be a while.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Agree, they don't ship all that well and may be sold undersized. Deaths among newly shipped Tangs (cyps and calvus IME) are not unusual, whereas I almost never have a Lake Malawi death after shipping.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

DJRansome said:


> Agree, they don't ship all that well and may be sold undersized. Deaths among newly shipped Tangs (cyps and calvus IME) are not unusual, whereas I almost never have a Lake Malawi death after shipping.


True enough. Some online suppliers that offer Live-on-Arrival guarantees for most of their fishes specifically exclude Tanganyikans from such a guarantee.


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## Riptide (7 mo ago)

So quick update here. Been a while.

Both of the cyp. leptosoma 'utinta' that were not doing well are still hanging in there somehow. They are still prretty skinny and definitely not 'thriving' like the others. They don't seem to take flake but they will snap up, a little bit, of baby brine. So they're on life support at this point just barely holding on. On the bright side the other fish basically ignore them.

Turns out two of our caudopunctatus have paired off and we have our first clutch, discovered just last night, hanging out in a shell. I thought the two were canoodling as they were always hanging out together and the smaller female kept disappearing inside a shell. My wife actually noticed the fry yesterday evening. Youtube link for those interested here:






Since I don't have enough baby brine now to go around between the adults and the youngsters I've ordered a second hatchery and am going to try to keep feeding this stuff daily. Tonight I'll be adjusting some of the directional filter flows to cut down on the current near their little home as it is pretty strong in that area so I have some concerns.

Made this video just a day or two before we noticed the fry:


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