# Fish List



## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

First Cichlid tank for the wife and I. :fish:

We have a 55 gal with a Fluval 305 canister filter, we replaced the ribbed hose with 5/8 hose with a smooth ID from our LFS.

Most of my research was done by looking at the profile pages on this site and watching youtube videos mostly from KG tropicals and emailing back and forth with the owner.

I was advised you can put most any Malawi Cichlids in the same tank though and warned not everyone agrees on this and to keep in mind that each fish has a unique personality. I was also told that if mixing other species with Mbuna to make sure that I chose species where the Mbuna would go into the tank smaller than Haps and Peacocks and stay smaller.

So I made my list, trying to pick all fish ranking low on the difficulty to care for scale from this site and went to the LFS and grabbed the ones that they had from my list and ordered the rest. No going back now.

Here is the list sizes are estimates. Bold are currently in the tank with a BN catfish the others are on order.:
*4.5" Male Electric Blue, Sciaenochromis Fryeri*
*4" Albino Peacock*
3.5" Male Taiwan Reef, Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan"
*2" unsexed Venustus, Nimbochromis venustus*
2" unsexed Malawi Butterfly, Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Otter Pt.)
3" Male Lemon Jake, Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Undu Reef)
*1.5" unsexed Yellow Lab, Labidochromis Caeruleus*
unsexed Maingano, Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos
unsexed Lions Cove, Cynotilapia Sp Lion 
*1.5"-2" unsexed Rusty, Iodotropheus Sprengerae*

The idea was to get all males so thats what I did where available and affordable. Everyone in the tank has seemed pretty happy so far except for the Albino and Electric Blue going at it the first night, I'm guessing to establish pecking order. There is still a little chasing each other around but not much and I haven't seen any actual contact since the first 24hrs.

What does everyone think?

Do you disagree with Mbunas in the tank with others from experience/others advice or not?

Any specific advice or things I should watch for in your opinion. I figure since this is new to me it won't go smoothly all the time but I'm eager to learn and am having fun so far.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

Well, you've already ordered all the fish, so I feel like this advice is falling on deaf ears but here it is anyway.
*General advice:* Fish suppliers have an incentive to sell you fish. They only guarantee a fish's health/survival to the point that the package reaches your front door - many don't care if that fish will thrive in your tank for the long term.

*Specific advice:*
I think the following fish are innappropriate for a 55 gallon all male hap and peacock tank.

3.5" Male Taiwan Reef, Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" *too big*
2" unsexed Venustus, Nimbochromis venustus *too big*
2" unsexed Malawi Butterfly, Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Otter Pt.) *too aggressive*
3" Male Lemon Jake, Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Undu Reef) *too aggressive*
unsexed Maingano, Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos *far too aggressive*
unsexed Lions Cove, Cynotilapia Sp Lion *borderline too aggressive*
1.5"-2" unsexed Rusty, Iodotropheus Sprengerae *borderline too aggressive*


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

I'll add that you shouldn't expect to see many problems immediately...I'd expect issues when the jacobfreibergi come into full color and the maingano gets above 2.5 inches.

Also note that I've kept most of the fish on your list.


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## Ramseydog14 (Dec 31, 2013)

Being relatively new to this myself I didn't post first because I wanted to be sure my original thoughts were correct..and Kanorin kinda confirmed it for me. Also, since your fish are ordered,..well you've gotta make the best of it. I don't know a lot about Haps or Peacocks,..other than they dont' do well with most Mbuna..and they need more space than a 55g (which is the size of my 2 main tanks). I do think,..from my experience that you can make a nice workable Mbuna tank by mixing and matching some of the fish you have with some of those that are coming...and then maybe sell or trade the others to an LFS for supplies..or more females of the species you decide to keep. I think you could do a setup with Yellow-Labs, Rusties, and the Cyno Lions cove, OR possibly the Maingano (I haven't kept those),..if you keep groups of 1m/3 or 4 fm /each species...for a total of 18-20 fish or so.

Similar combinations to that are doing very well in 2 different 55Gs I have running. Hope that helps some


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks.

I have committed to these already you are right. Other than go with it and do my best I'm not sure what other options I have at this point. I can slowly try rehomeing an replacing them with other fish that might be better suited but I'm in a pretty low populated area and will have trouble with that as well.

I was worried about the Venustus. It's the one fish that wasn't on the list that my wife decided we had to have when we got to the fish store and she loved the way it looked.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Please don't take this as being negative, but as constructive. You did ask for advice  I think you stock list could work in a much a larger tank 6'in length where the fish can have space and more easily avoid one another.

The way I see it is this:

-Fryeri and the particularly the venustus are too big for you tank.
-The fryeri will most likely not get along with both jacobfreibergi types as they are too similar in appearance.
-The jacobfreibergi are two males of the same species so will not get along
-Albinos tend to be pretty wimpy so will have a tough time with most of the bigger or more aggressive fish.
-The melanochromis is too aggressive for most of these

I kind of think you have a tale of two tanks going on. The combos I would consider putting together in a 55 gallon are:

Option 1:
4" Albino Peacock
3.5" Male Taiwan Reef, Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan"
1.5" unsexed Yellow Lab, Labidochromis Caeruleus
unsexed Lions Cove, Cynotilapia Sp Lion 
1.5"-2" unsexed Rusty, Iodotropheus Sprengerae
Add a few other small "hap" types, and a less aggressive peacock species

Option 2:
1.5" unsexed Yellow Lab, Labidochromis Caeruleus
unsexed Maingano, Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos
unsexed Lions Cove, Cynotilapia Sp Lion 
1.5"-2" unsexed Rusty, Iodotropheus Sprengerae
Add more small-medium sized mbuna



> I was advised you can put most any Malawi Cichlids in the same tank


 - I disagree with this



> I was also told that if mixing other species with Mbuna to make sure that I chose species where the Mbuna would go into the tank smaller than Haps and Peacocks and stay smaller.


 - I completely disagree with this. This is to make things seem like they are working for the first couple of months.

One other bit of advice is that compatibility of a group of fish isn't measured in a 24 hour period, but in much longer time periods. As these fish mature I see nothing but fireworks.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Chester B said:


> Please don't take this as being negative, but as constructive. You did ask for advice  I think you stock list could work in a much a larger tank 6'in length where the fish can have space and more easily avoid one another.


Not taking it as negative at all. I have a lot to learn and I have known it all along. I thought I'd done enough research to get started and apparently ended up behind the 8 ball.

I should have joined and made this post prior to going to the fish store. Lesson learned.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

The Mainjango and Loins Cove I can probably get out of since the store was ordering them to carry anyway but the others were ones they were special ordering.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Welcome to the forum Nish!

You've received good advice from Kanorin, Ramsey and Chester so far. Just wanted to add that if one of those unsexed fish turns out to be a female you'll have a whole new set of problems. The males want to breed at all costs and their aggression will ramp up if a sexually mature(as small as 1.5-2" with most mbuna) female is present.

The advice you've received about mixing mbuna with peacocks comes from the same source who advises folks to stock and breed mbuna in a 29 gallon tank. Food for thought...


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

See if there is any way to cancel the order and go on damage control trying to figure out what to stock the rest of the tank with?


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

Kanorin said:


> *Specific advice:*
> I think the following fish are innappropriate for a 55 gallon all male hap and peacock tank.
> 
> 3.5" Male Taiwan Reef, Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" *too big*
> ...


Agree with Kanorin here. The fish he listed here will get far to big and aggressive for a 55 gallon. Venustus in particular grow like weeds and if you have the luck of growing a super dominate male he will wreck havoc on the other fish in the tank especially if they are confined to a 4 foot tank.

The good news is you have a bit of time as the fish are all sub adult and I use a 55 as a grow out tank for my haps until they hit 3.5" to 4" that's when I noticed the aggression in the males really starts to amp up.

If this were my tank and the assumption here that this is not a grow out tank I would go with the option Chester suggested here. Mbuna seem to better in 55 gallon tanks than haps from my experience.



Chester B said:


> Option 2:
> 1.5" unsexed Yellow Lab, Labidochromis Caeruleus
> unsexed Maingano, Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos
> unsexed Lions Cove, Cynotilapia Sp Lion
> ...


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Ok So the LFS hadn't actually placed the order yet. I've only got to do damage control on the ones I currently have in the tank.

The 4.5" Male Electric Blue, Sciaenochromis Fryeri really is the one my wife is in love with and the one that she wants to keep the most out of any of them.

With that in mind and seeing all the ones that we obviously thought were a good idea and that we would like. Where do we go from here?

Can we plan a tank around that Hap?
If so -
Should I expect any of the ones I have to play nice with him?
Any suggestions on other fish?

If not - 
Well I already have two suggestions from above posts, I'll work off those and see if I can find another fish my wife can fall in love with. Anyone have a suggestion for something purple LOL


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

Any chance that you might be able to upgrade to a larger aquarium (the bigger the better, but even a 75 gallon gives you additional options) in the next 6 months or so?


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Space wise it really could be. We live in a 100+ year old house that was designed to house Quarry workers, the rooms are small and we have done a lot of work already to make more room but fitting the 55 in was tricky. Not out of the question but a long discussion between the wife and I about where and hunting for a decent deal on one.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

Nish said:


> Space wise it really could be. We live in a 100+ year old house that was designed to house Quarry workers, the rooms are small and we have done a lot of work already to make more room but fitting the 55 in was tricky. Not out of the question but a long discussion between the wife and I about where and hunting for a decent deal on one.


I have been watching Craigslist in my area for a 75G myself. Since you have some time before you will "NEED" a bigger tank, I would start there (unless you just want to buy a new one). The dimensions aren't much bigger than the 55G you already have and will most likely fit in the same designated space. Your established filters and aquascape can just transfer as well.

When I started out, I bought a few fish I shouldn't have. The LFS guy said they would be fine. 1 day later I had 1 fish left in the tank (stupid aggression). The best rule of thumb starting out and now being a member here (welcome) check out the cookie cutter tanks in the Library section. If your favorite fish is listed in one of them, try to use that as an example to build around. Luckily, I learned early and only made a $14 mistake. I'm glad you were able to cancel the orders because it sounds like you were soon to find out the true meaning of chaos.

Good luck with your tank.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks for all the advice guys.

As frustrating as it is to see what you thought was a good plan shredded to pieces it's no where near as frustrating as a several hundred dollar bloodbath followed but finding out it was your own poor plan that led to it.

I will look closer at the cookie cutter tank section.

The two fish that we kinda fell in love with were the Blue Hap we got (My wifes favorite) and the Taiwan Reef (my favorite looking) From the advice given here it doesn't sound like I'm going to be able to do both of those. I could hear and see the disappointment in my wife at the prospect of getting rid of the Blue Hap.

Hopefully I can find a cookie cutter tank with that fish in it or find one with something else she will fall in love with.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

So I'm looking at the options Chester gave (Thank you so much for taking that time) Cookie cutter lists for 55's as changing fish at this point is a better option for us than getting a bigger complete tank setup.

For quicker referance Chesters options:
*Option 1:
4" Albino Peacock
3.5" Male Taiwan Reef, Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan"
1.5" unsexed Yellow Lab, Labidochromis Caeruleus
unsexed Lions Cove, Cynotilapia Sp Lion
1.5"-2" unsexed Rusty, Iodotropheus Sprengerae
Add a few other small "hap" types, and a less aggressive peacock species

Option 2:
1.5" unsexed Yellow Lab, Labidochromis Caeruleus
unsexed Maingano, Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos
unsexed Lions Cove, Cynotilapia Sp Lion
1.5"-2" unsexed Rusty, Iodotropheus Sprengerae
Add more small-medium sized mbuna*

Keep in mind I'm pretty ignorant here but I'm working on it.

Cookie cutter question - All of them say pick X species total of X fish, The math dictates that females are added, Is this going to cause more problems or rather what are the things I should look out for when adding females?

Chester B's Option 1 is looking best at this point
Given those starting fish in Options 1 and 2 is anyone willing to:
Option 1: Suggest a families of Haps to look-in or avoid? Which Peacock Species should I start looking in or avoid (which ever list is easier for you)

Option 2: Small-medium mbuna means a max size of how many inches?

No matter the choice: I'll be looking for a fish, or a few fish, that look a lot like the Electric Blue Hap and purple fish so suggestions there would be great.

Side question - Should The Albino's scales shimer blue at times?


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## 3000GT (Jan 18, 2014)

Nish, I'm glad that you were able to cancel your order. This process can certainly be exciting and frustrating at the same time. 
I'm about 5 months into my fist african cichlid tank and I know where you're coming from. I also like wathing those KG tropicals videos too, but have noticed some things he says there don't quite mesh with what I find on this forum. (He also says that not everyone agrees with his opinions).

Anyway, I definitely don't have as much experience as many who have already responded, but did want to throw out my two cents.

1) I had actually ordered what I thought (based on picture) would be a red shoulder/blue peacock but received instead the electric blue freyeri that you have. We loved him so much based on his looks but he was definitely starting to be more aggressive. I ended up having him in the tank with an OB (orange black) peacock and they were going at it and locking lips, so much as we didn't want to do it, we ended up getting rid of him (and later the OB too....also too aggressive), plus I'd been told here that he would get too big for our 60 gallon tank. If you like that look, you may want to look into the aulunocara cobue. He might be a better match for a 55 gallon peacock / hap tank and look fairly similar to your current fish.

2) On the Albino peacock, I know that Chester B. said that the albinos tend to be wimpy, but mine is the mose aggressive in my tank. Also in looking at the articles in Peacock corner on this site, there's an article that says many of the albino peacocks may be Jacobfrieergi which are know for being more aggressive. I was worried he would get picked on as I ready that albinos can have poor eyesite, but low and behold, he's a tough one. So, while I would still follow the advise you've been given so far, there are sometimes when there are exceptions based on the personlaity of the fish.

3) Also, the setup of the tank can have some impact as well which also may be trial and error. I just found in my tank that by taking away a large rock/cave structure that the aggression has seemd to go down. I think that might have been something I heard from KG tropical and thought I'd try it (low risk). It's just been 1 week, but it seems to have worked as the albino no longer has something he calls his own to fight for. In any case, it's another factor to play with (and I dont think that would work for mbuna).

4) As for other haps/peacocks, I understand that the sulfer heads may be on the milder side. I have a Lwanda which I think also has a reputation as being a bit more aggressive but is not at all in my tank. I also have a blue/gold which is very nice. Lastly I was recomended an Intermedius hap which I got and really like. Not sure about purple. Some of the peacocks in pics I see so have some purple, but I think it may be the photos as I have not really seen any in person.

5) I don't see it often, but I think my albino does have a blue sheen sometimes. I think I saw it more when he was in my quarrantie tank upon first arrival as that has brighter lighing for the moment than my main tank.

Best of luck to you!


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks. The more information the better.

Saturday is 2 weeks, and everyone is getting along fine still so I don't feel the need to rush to get anyone out, which means I can figure out the best way to do it.

Wife and I didn't get a chance to talk fish last night so I haven't told her that the Fryeri needs to go. That will be this weekend. I spent 2hrs last night going through profiles on here of suggested genus or species and have a list of some peacocks and haps and some Mbuna depending on which option I go with. I made notes if I thought that they might look like the Fryeri (That Cobue is on that list!), I also noted a couple ones that looked or were described as purple or having purple highlights.

I decided to lead my wife towards one of Chesters options instead of a cookie cutter tank since I already have some of those fish (which we know we like the looks of) so it cuts down on some hassle and money.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Any guesses as to how long I have before the hap becomes a problem?


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## 3000GT (Jan 18, 2014)

Hopefully others will chime in, but I would say that it depend on his personality. He's already 4.5 inches so not a juvenile. I would think it could be a few months....Or days if he turns nasty. Hard to say. Again. I would think you have time until he gets too big, so it's the teammates, decor and personality that might dictate your timing.

For mine I tried time outs for a while but in the end just figured I'd bite the bullet and got rid of him before we got too used to him or he did some real damage.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

I kinda figured the answer would be it depends on his behavior. Being my wifes first love I gotta try to find the RIGHT fish


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## Schticky Schnauzer (Aug 2, 2013)

How about a Placidochromis Electra (Deepwater Hap)? While not a bright retina scorching purple, they have a blue/Lavender tint. Pretty peaceful, only get about 6". They are one of my wifes favorite fish in my all male tank. You could also look into a Otopharyn Lithobates Z-Rock., peaceful and the combo of blue/purple with the yellow stripe is nice.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestions I'll look into those


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

> Option 2: Small-medium mbuna means a max size of how many inches?


I'd say max of 5.5 inches for mbuna in a 55 gallon tank. Smaller, but more aggressive fish would also be out (any melanochromis, kenyi, etc). Furthermore, if you are also keeping peacocks and haps, any of the medium aggressive mbuna are also out.



> No matter the choice: I'll be looking for a fish, or a few fish, that look a lot like the Electric Blue Hap and purple fish so suggestions there would be great.


I think you and your wife might like some of the following - all of which would be good choices for a 55 gallon tank (although you might need to rehome the fryeri). I'm assuming you'd be interested in an all-male tank
Aulonocara koningsi
Aulonocara stuartgranti (cobue)
Aulonocara stuartgranti (chiwindi)
Copadichromis trewavasae


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

We are going to go with Chesters Option 1, Haps and another Peacock keeping the 2 Mbuna that we currently have, and looking into getting rid of the 2 Large aggressive haps we currently have.

Picked up the Taiwan Reef Today and we were wondering about these two choices for the tank so far:

For our other Peacock Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ngara) Flame tail.

For one of the other Haps Otopharynx lithobates (Domwe Is.)

We are still looking at a few other Haps that were suggested but were interested in that one. Please feel free to give your oppinions on those two or offer up any other suggestions you might have.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

I used to raise Flametails, loved them. If I could find some in my area, I would get them again. Mine colored up nice in a 55G and were able to hold their own in my mild aggressive setup.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Glad to hear it!

Anyone have experience with the Otopharynx I mentioned?


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Both of your new choices should work. O. lithobates are on the milder side so should work out.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Glad to hear I'm more on the right track now!


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Ok so here is what I have looking at size, aggression level and appearance. Using the profiles on this site for most all of my research. I have no idea how hard these are to get or if my LFS can order them or not. Please let me know if it looks more like I am barking up the right tree.

Keeping
Taiwan Reef
Albino Peacock (How do you tell the difference between Albino and "Blood Dragon"?)
Rusty
Yellow Lab

Looking at getting (all Males is the goal)
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ngara)
Otopharynx lithobates (Domwe Is.)
Copadichromis parvus
Placidochromis electra (Undu)
Copadichromis sp. "Virginalis Gold"
Copadichromis sp. "Mloto Fluorescent"


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

Nish said:


> Albino Peacock (How do you tell the difference between Albino and "Blood Dragon"?)


Dragon blood peacocks are not true albino's they don't have the red eye coloration that albino's have. Also many albino peacocks are hybrids as big farm breeders often use many combinations of male/females with the albino gene.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks for the info!


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

This is the guy I was asking about. I was sold this one as an Albino male, had a hunch it was miss labeled. Sorry for the bad cell phone pic.


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

that's not an albino peacock. Looks more like a dragons blood. Notice how it does not have the red albino eyes


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Thats what I thought. Thanks for the help.

Anyone have any opinions on the rest of the fish list?


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

Nish said:


> Thats what I thought. Thanks for the help.
> 
> Anyone have any opinions on the rest of the fish list?


I assume these are all males you are going for? otherwise probably not going to work. If it were my tank I would get rid of the Rusty I am not a big fan of mixing Haps and mbuna especially in a 4foot tank.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

Yes all males.

The Rusty and the Lab might have to go I'm aware of that and trying to keep an eye on it. I think I'm going to keep them in there for now. At least until I get the rest of the haps and the 2nd Peacock figured out and in the tank.


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## Nish (Jun 4, 2014)

So the list that I sent to the LFS to finish stocking the tank are:

Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ngara)
Otopharynx lithobates (Domwe Is.)
Copadichromis parvus
Placidochromis electra (Undu)
Copadichromis sp. "Mloto Fluorescent"
Tramitichromis sp Intermedius

They said that currently they can't get the Parvus (I was cautioned that 2 Copadichromis in the tank might cause problems anyway) and the Intermedius.

Any suggestions on who might have these fish online?

The Pavus was meant to be a "replacement" for the Fryeri because my wife likes his look so much so if I can't find one I'll try to find something else that looks like the Fryeri.


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