# My Frontosa are driving me crazy!!!!!!!!!!



## fiupntballr_2 (Apr 9, 2013)

So I have an awesome colony of burundi that visually are AWESOME... I have 1 male and 11 females and they are spawning consistently and having a great old time... for the most part.....
Here lies the problem..

I can not get close to my tank at all without totally freaking them out as they bash into the walls of the tank. My wife is afraid of just mopping near the tank because they freak out.

They have been there for over a year so I expected them to relax... I have had frontosa in the past but usually one in a large mixed tang. tank and they usually never cower rather just act like the others.

One other thing is that they are not voracious eaters. They will only eat NLS and that is sparingly. Once a day feedings is more than enough for these guys.

any thoughts?


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

fiupntballr_2 said:


> So I have an awesome colony of burundi that visually are AWESOME... I have 1 male and 11 females and they are spawning consistently and having a great old time... for the most part.....
> Here lies the problem..
> 
> I can not get close to my tank at all without totally freaking them out as they bash into the walls of the tank. My wife is afraid of just mopping near the tank because they freak out.
> ...


Not 100% sure; but, here's my thoughts... Or at least what could be part of the issue....

I suspect overfeeding "could be" at least one contributing factor in overly shy fronts. Granted, there may be more factors? Use food to your advantage in the following ways:

- Switch to feeding 100% frozen canadian mysis & frozen plankton (no more NLS) - you can get these in bulk from Jehmco. There are many benefits of this diet which I have elaborated on in other posts.
- For a group of 11, I would suggest (using Hikari frozen cubes as my ruler since most people are familar with them) 5 cubes (total) per day.
- Faste one day per week with no food at all.
- Classically condition them with the food: do the same everything every time. I.e. mix the food with water in a coffee cup (also makes it easier to pour out the water with waste on the top), same coffee cup every time.
- After a few feedings they will learn to asscoiate that cup with food and they will get excited when they see you walk up with that cup.
- Approach the tank slowly with the cup and they MUST come and greet you in order to eat. If they don't greet you happily, skip that feeding. Don't worry, you won't starve them. An adult female can go two weeks + without food.
- Once you dump the frozen food in the tank, sit on a stool right in front of the tank. If they are going to eat, they are going to get used to your face right next to the tank.

Also, spend more time sitting in front of the tank. I have a couple chairs in front of my tank and will sit and chill and watch them for long periods. You can check your emails or read a newspaper.

So, in summary, most people over feed their fronts. And, they are smart fish that can be classically conditioned.

They will get used to you and eventually act as if you are not there (when you don't have the cup in your hand  ).

Hope that helps.

Russ


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## fiupntballr_2 (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks Russ

I will give this a whirl. I have been giving them food once a day and have tried introducing freeze dried mysis with no NLS. Essentially two days of no food and freeze dried mysis. They may mouth it a bit but just spit it out. Have you found a difference between frozen vs freeze dried?

My tank is in front of my dinner table so I don't know how much closer I can get. I spend about an hour a day next to them.

So my actions for the next week. They will not eat today  and I will introduce a big white cup with frozen mysis. I will let them see it and put some in and do this for two days. On the fourth day I will walk up with the cup and see if they come up. If they do they get rewarded if not they will go for another day and repeat.

One question. Fronts like low light so I just count on ambient room lighting. Could some light introduction help?


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

fiupntballr_2 said:


> Thanks Russ
> 
> I will give this a whirl. I have been giving them food once a day and have tried introducing freeze dried mysis with no NLS. Essentially two days of no food and freeze dried mysis. They may mouth it a bit but just spit it out. Have you found a difference between frozen vs freeze dried?
> 
> ...


I have not used freeze dried - can't comment.

My Mikula go NUTS EVERYTIME I feed. They are at the top of the tank waiting for me, they splash me waiting for the food. My big female will even stick her head in the coffee cup (NO JOKE!!!). I have started petting their foreheads (as they are sticking out of water) when they are begging for food. Zaires are supposed to be the shy ones!

A little more about my routine:
- I buy in bulk and cut up cubes on my own (trying to get them as close as possible to the Hikari cubes).
- I keep the cut cubes in two tupperware containers and scoop out two of each at feeding time.
- I fill my (white) coffee cup with water and a tablespoon to stir.
- Once thawed, I stir and let all the food settle on the bottom.
- I then use the spoon as a stainer and let 90% of the water go down the kitchen sink (this gets rid of waste and that oil film).
- Then, I carry my coffee cup downstairs on a little plate to control spillage if needed.
- I stand in front of the tank with my white coffee cup in hand and wait for them to greet me. Sometimes, I'l tease them and put the cup next to the glass. Big Blue will try to look in the cup :lol: 
- I open up the top of the tank and put one small spoon full in the water and swoosh it to try to get the fish away from the top of the tank so one fish doesn't gobble up all of the food in one bite.
- Then I dunk the coffee cup into the tank and dump the rest of the food. Big Blue waits for this and will try to get in the coffee cup :lol: 
- Make sure you get "Canadian" mysis - it is larger and you get whole pieces of mysis shrimp.

Lights - my fish are on the unfinished side of the basement so I don't have ambient lighting  I keep a shop light on during the day - this light is about four foot away from the tank and at ceiling height. In the PM when I want to feed them and watch them, I turn the tank lights on. This also helps keep algae/diatom growth to a minimum.

Hope that helps.

Russ


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## Ron R. (Oct 21, 2003)

You have received some very good advice from Russ. Classic Operant Conditioning in the aquarium. Love it!!!!!!!

Got a few questions for you, but I really agree with the info received already. I like to keep my wc mobas mean and lean. When they see me with my rubbermaid container lid and I open the same left side of my glass top, they come a swimming over. They will splash the top of the water they get so excited. I used to feed frozen Hikari krill and mysis exclusively, but changed over to a combination of NLS Thera A and 3 Dainichi sinking pellets (Ultima, Supreme and Color FX) about 3 years ago. I feed 9 adult mobas ranging in size from 6" to 13" a good size full tablespoon of these mixed sinking pellets 1x daily, usually in the evening. I even skip a day or 2 feeding them during the week.

Conditioning is consistency. I believe in consistency.......in lighting, feeding, water changes.........

It sounds like you have a mature group of fish. Mine are too. Do you have them on a light schedule? Russ mentions he has a shop light on and uses his tank lights at night to feed and enjoy his fish. I have 2 36" Marineland Double Bright LED lights and 2 sets of moonlights I got from Digikits. I have the LEDS on an auto-timer and the moonlights on a separate one. My mobas are on a routine. When I started out keeping fronts back in '88 I used to keep the lights off most of the time because when I turned them on all heck would break loose. I like seeing and enjoying my fish so I have my mobas on a light schedule.

How high is your tank? Is it on a standard 2 foot stand? I know when I had my lower 2 foot stand my fronts could see my legs and swinging arms passing by and they would dart. I have my tank on a 41' high stand so they mainly see folks torso passing by. When someone walks by with a broom, stick, ladder, backpack........they swim for their caves.

I have my tank right on a major walkway. I think this has been helpful because they are used to alot of foot traffic. I used to think this would slow down spawning but this is not the case. Sounds like your fish don't have any problem spawning. Congrats with that!!!!!

Russ is right. Don't worry about starving them. They can go for weeks without eating. Just think, one of your females holding eggs can go for a good month without eating.

And, be patient. Your fish didn't get that way overnight. LOL Follow Russ' advice. I'll bet you it will work for you and your fish.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

All good advice, but you could also continue feeding NLS and just use less of it. That has worked for my fronts coming on 8 years now. Initially I fed them daily, but with adult Fronts and NLS this is likely going to be too much. Mine are fed every 2 to 3 days now. I have no shyness problems at all - and I've had kid's B-day parties in the room with the tank. Best of luck!


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Ron R. said:


> Conditioning is consistency. I believe in consistency.......in lighting, feeding, water changes.........
> 
> It sounds like you have a mature group of fish. Mine are too. *Do you have them on a light schedule?* Russ mentions he has a shop light on and uses his tank lights at night to feed and enjoy his fish. I have 2 36" Marineland Double Bright LED lights and 2 sets of moonlights I got from Digikits. *I have the LEDS on an auto-timer and the moonlights on a separate one*. My mobas are on a routine. When I started out keeping fronts back in '88 I used to keep the lights off most of the time because when I turned them on all heck would break loose. I like seeing and enjoying my fish so I have my mobas on a light schedule.
> ...


Ron, I need to get my lighting on a timer. My lighting is a hodgepodge of various stuff. Lighting just may be my summer project this year.

Russ


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

Good info here. I think I'll keep mine on NLS for now and reduce the feedings.Just starting to breed so I don't want to make drastic changes.


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## fiupntballr_2 (Apr 9, 2013)

I find the Fronts are really good at telling you when they're not hungry and I quickly learned how NLS can really fill them up.

Here is a video I shot today randomly and you will see near the end how they all freak out and take off over the smallest things.

The male and now the 3rd female of the month. They are comfortable but just get very skittish over small things.





I have started the mysis stuff yesterday. They really really liked it... lets see how the conditioning goes.

You will see at 2:10 on fish get chased and the whole tank went bananas including a couple smashing into glass....


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Cool capture of the spawning opcorn:


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