# Convert needs advice. Satanoperca sp/Geophagus sp/Apistos??



## NW Lover (Aug 28, 2007)

Hello, I am obsessive/compulsive!! So that being said, here we go. I recently"after two decades" traded in my African rift lake cichlids for Some sweet SA cichlids. I am in need of information and advice on my selection. When these fish grow what are the problems I might have, aside from needing a bigger tank. (I have a 120gal show) I realize at some point I will need to reduce the amount of fish in the tank. I have more than enough Satanoperca leucosticta. The only aggression in the tank at this point is within each group. Here is my stock list.
5 wild Geophagus sp. "Tapajos 2"
2 wild Geophagus surinamensis 3.5"
2 wild Satanoperca leucosticta 6"
6 Satanoperca leucosticta 1"
3 pairs of Apistogramma cacatuoides 1" female and 2" males


----------



## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Where did you find wild Suranamensis? Last I heard the area they are found in was off limits to collecting.


----------



## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

What is the footprint of the tank?

The _Geophagus_ and _Satanoperca_ will get along fine, the female _Apistogramma_ might get snacked on eventually.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *NW Lover*,

I agree with *edburress* to an extent. At the current sizes your stock list would be fine. But I do not think any 120 gal tank, regardless of footprint, would be suitable for all those eartheaters once mature.

I would look at doing a cichlid species only tank with either the Tapajos or Leucosticta. Then look at adding some dithers and clean up crew that would go well with either species.


----------



## NW Lover (Aug 28, 2007)

I like the Tapajo's more than the Leucosticta. I have seen the 6" Leucosticta eyeballin the smallest Apisto female. If I bought two more Tapajo's two more Suranamensis and removed the Leucosticta and Apisto's from the tank, would that work? We have a nice LFS that orders in alot of wild cought fish. These Suranamensis came through the Cichlid Exchange in Portland Or. They had four, but I missed out and someone bought the other two.


----------



## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

Peter... I agree 100%, I only meant the two species are compatible. Looking back at my post I should of been more clear.

NW Lover... if it is a 6' footprint the tapajos and surinamensis would probably be fine at their existing numbers, two more of each would be pushing it. Wait for Peter to comment though, he kept his orange heads in a 6' tank so he'll have more input.

Ed


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Thanks Ed.

*NW Lover*, I grew out 8 juvenile Geophagus sp. 'araguaia orange head' in a 6 foot, 150 gallon tank. Araguaia are very similar to Tapajos. When they reached around 4 inches, I removed two, and kept six. While these are a smaller geo, reaching between 6 and 7 inches TL, they certainly active and need room to move about.

I did have a number of dwarf cichlids in the tank as well, including apistos, but the tank was moderately planted at the time, afording plenty of hiding spots, and Araguaia aren't as boistrous as Tapajos.

As photobucket is down for maintenance, I can only link you to my old profile and tank, Amazonian Community Tank.

While geos are a relatively peacefull cichlid, they'll still have a pecking order amongst thier own kind. To few geos in a group, and the weakest my become the victim of to much bulling. It's recommended to keep atleast a group of 5 of any one species. However mixing two species to make a group of five doesn't count. You'll find the larger species will be dominant over the smaller species, and each species will have it's own pecking order.

That's why I recommended a species only tank for the geos, starting with 8 Tapajos would be good, and if you like, stocking with compatible fish from the Rio Tapajos. This is real easy as there a many, many fish from the Rio Tapajos found in many LFS. Including dwarf cichlids, fancy plecos, and tetras.


----------



## btate617 (Apr 24, 2008)

Your wild Geophagus surinamensis are more than likely Proximus.


----------



## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

Great post Peter :thumb:

btate617... Not likely, _G. proximus_ are also very rare in the US and have an opercular mark and significantly different abdominal spot, I think they would be quite easily distinguished. IME most "_G. surinamensis_" prove to be _G. altifrons_ or _G_. aff. _altifrons_. G. surinamensis seems to be a "catch all" for almost any eartheater, I've never seen a picture of either surinamensis or proximus on CF that I felt was the real deal. There are a lot of _G. proximus_ in Europe so it is nice to look at theirs sometimes :lol:

Maybe there are more _G. proximus_ in Canada?


----------



## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Cichlid Exchange's 'surinamensis' over the years are either proximus or altifrons ... proximus years ago, altifrons recently. :thumb:


----------



## btate617 (Apr 24, 2008)

edburress said:


> Great post Peter :thumb:
> 
> btate617... Not likely, _G. proximus_ are also very rare in the US and have an opercular mark and significantly different abdominal spot, I think they would be quite easily distinguished. IME most "_G. surinamensis_" prove to be _G. altifrons_ or _G_. aff. _altifrons_. G. surinamensis seems to be a "catch all" for almost any eartheater, I've never seen a picture of either surinamensis or proximus on CF that I felt was the real deal. There are a lot of _G. proximus_ in Europe so it is nice to look at theirs sometimes :lol:
> 
> Maybe there are more _G. proximus_ in Canada?


Yes lots of people think they have surinamensis because they are sold as such, and they end up being proximus. I agree with the catch-all name give to surinamensis, I have seen Geophagus steindachneri labeled as surinamensis. I didn't know suinamensis were floating around the US either, they were impossible to find before I moved to Canada.
I was just making a point it would be more likely to see proximus than it would be sunimensis in my opinion.

Brian


----------



## NW Lover (Aug 28, 2007)

Here is a crummy picture of the fish in question. I will get better pics tonight.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Altifrons mate.

BTW what's your substrate? sand or crushed coral?


----------



## NW Lover (Aug 28, 2007)

Either fish is fine with me. I think they might be female's. Silica sand is the substrate. At some point I am going to switch to very fine cichlid sand. I removed the crushed coral sand when I let the African's go. Silica sand is so inexpensive I thought I would try it. I priced Cichlid sand at $1.00 a pound. The Silica was $6.00 for 100 pounds. What plants will go with my fish selection?


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hey *NW Lover*,

Which cichlids, and why do you think they are females?

As for plants, well... I can see in the second photo what looks like a rock pile as might be found in an African cichlid tank. Large rock structures aren't really needed for South American eartheaters, that don't seek safety in amongst the crevices.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend a lot of plants for an eartheater tank. Most of us who have kept eartheaters in planted tanks have experienced more than our fair share of continually replanting uprooted plants. It's in eartheaters nature to continually sift the substrate looking for food, and one place where food can be found is at the base of plants, so they get dug up a lot.

Please remember that link was to my first tank, and experience with eartheaters. After about 6 months I totally rescaped the tank becuase I was tired of replanting a lot of the plants. Plus I refined my stock list some what. Here's a photo of the rescape. I left most of the substrate bare for the geo's to sift through, only keeping the back and sides planted for the 5 dwarf acara's which prefer sheltered areas.










Today if I was to do another eartheater tank, I would set the tank up more like *edburress's* Rio Tapajos tank or *DiscusQueen's* geo/angel tank. One or two larger amazon swords, a nice root tangle and another piece of driftwood, and a couple of river rocks for spawning sites would be all I'd include for the aquascape.

You still haven't told us the dimensions of your tank by the way. Have you come to a decision which eartheaters you're going to go with?


----------



## NW Lover (Aug 28, 2007)

My tank is 4'X2'X2'.....120usg... Here is a front and side shot. My camera takes bad pic's.


----------



## btate617 (Apr 24, 2008)

You can go to Home Depot or Lowe's or somewhere like that and get play sand, that is what I have in all my tanks. I think I paid $6 for 50lbs.

Brian


----------



## Fishguy28 (Feb 5, 2007)

DeadFishFloating said:


> if you like, stocking with compatible fish from the Rio Tapajos. This is real easy as there a many, many fish from the Rio Tapajos found in many LFS. Including dwarf cichlids, fancy plecos, and tetras.


This sounds alot easier than it is. I am working on a tapajos biotope now, I have the Geos, L134s and a large school of Lemon Tetras. It's the Ornate Cories and A. cf. Agassizi Redback Tapajos that are a bit tricky to track down.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hey *Fishguy28*,

I would imagine the agassizii would be rather hard to track down. Laetacara curviceps also come from the Rio Tapajos. If you have some L134's already, I don't think you'll need the cories. Instead try looking for L183 A. dolichopterus, starlight bristlenose catfish, they're one of the smallest growing bristlenose catfish. Finally, marbled hatchetfish and dwarf pencilfish are also found in the Rio Tapajos.


----------



## Fishguy28 (Feb 5, 2007)

DeadFishFloating said:


> Hey *Fishguy28*,
> 
> I would imagine the agassizii would be rather hard to track down. Laetacara curviceps also come from the Rio Tapajos. If you have some L134's already, I don't think you'll need the cories. Instead try looking for L183 A. dolichopterus, starlight bristlenose catfish, they're one of the smallest growing bristlenose catfish. Finally, marbled hatchetfish and dwarf pencilfish are also found in the Rio Tapajos.


Oddly enough I called the best lfs in my area and apparently they normally have F1 Tapajos cf. Agassizi in stock, but the do have the Fire Red which is the tank strain of cf. Tapajos. The Starlight plecos would be awesome, but unfortunately they're extremely rare around here.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Try posting a WTB add on the USA Buy / Sell / Trade forum at PlecoFanatics.


----------



## NW Lover (Aug 28, 2007)

Ok, I took the 2 wild Satanoperca leucosticta 6" back to my LFS. They did not fit in. Too big compared to the fish. I am going to sell the 2 wild Geophagus surinamensis, wich are now beleived to be Geophagus altifrons. But, I picked up a Wild trio of 'Geophagus' steindachneri. I hope they dont cause problems. LMK what you would do.


----------

