# sick Petenia splendida/Red Bay Snook



## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

I have a Petenia splendida/Red Bay Snook He/she has white spots on the fins and his stomach is bloated. I have read that his stomach is distended because he is starving.I have treated for ick for about ten days. (without filters) There are still the white spots on his fins. He hasn't eaten for over a week. I have done 25% water change twice and then 50% water change twice. I also have an oscar and a red tail something or other. They have really slowed down on eating also but they eat. I don't know if this is due to ick treatment or not. I raised the water temp to 80 degrees. The snook is staying at the top of the water with his back out. All test strips are good but it did show high in the nitrates but that is under control. I feel so sorry for him because he seems to want to eat but can't seem to get into position. I have tried worms because they love them but he runs from me. I just don't know what else to do.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

The white spots: are you certain that its ICK? They should look like grains of salt and they may not always be in the same spot. 
What did you use to treat the ICK? Was there any improvement as far as the white spots?

On the not eating: not a concern as far as starving goes--the fish won't starve in a week or even two or three. But it is an indication that there's some kind of illness going on in the tank. A distended belly is also an indication of illness. It does NOT mean the fish is starving.

Filters: did you actually turn them off or did you just remove the carbon from them? If you turned them off: are they still off or how long where they off for and when did you turn them back on?

What are you using for a declorinator?
WHat is your nitrate level? Ammonia? Nitrite?

Please post back with additional information including answers to above questions as well as the history of the tank: how long has it been set up and how long have you had these fish?

Robin


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

Thanks for responding. I am not certain it is ick but it looks like it. Like salt on his fins. There are only a few. Doesn't seem like it would cause this much trouble but things aren't any better. I used Quick cure for the ick. I am using stress coat plus for the chlorine. I checked the level of chlorine after the water change and stress coat and it was a little high so I used Jungle Ace. I didn't turn off the filter, I just removed the pads. I only have strips for testing and they all came up safe. My daughter had the tank for a few years and I bought it from her last Christmas with the same fish that are now in it. I hope this info helps. I don't really know much about fish tanks but I am learing and I think maybe the hard way. The snook just can't seem to swim around, he only stays at the top. When he does decend, it is quickly and right back up to the top. His back is always out of the water. I am at a loss.


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

I forgot, I also put aquarium salt in it. 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons and raised the temp to 80


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> The snook just can't seem to swim around, he only stays at the top. When he does decend, it is quickly and right back up to the top. His back is always out of the water.


That helps.  
Sounds like a swim bladder problem. Add Epsom salt at the rate of 1 tablespoon per five gallons. Disolve it first and add it gradually over several hours time. It won't hurt the other fish to also be in the Epsom salt. I know you said he's not eating but make sure he DOES NOT eat until he can swim normally again.

On the ick, you probably just need to treat longer. I've never used Quick Cure but I believe others have reported success with it on ICK. You can also add more aquarium salt to combat the ick. Up to 3 tablespoons per five gallons. Disolve it first and add it slowly. Daily or every other day partial water changes will also help get rid of ick as will siphoning the gravel.

On your declorinator--do you know if your water has chloramines added to it? A quick call to your water company will give you the answer. I know Stress Coat does not work on Chloramines but perhaps Stress Coat Plus does? I don't know if its a different product. You want to make sure that what you're using works on chloramines if you have them.

Robin


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

Thanks, I will try that first thing in the morning.


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

I went to the pet store and the fish guy said it wasn't swim bladder because it should be on his upper back. This swelling is in the lower half of the fish. He thought maybe it was gas. What do you think?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Gas? I honestly don't know if fish get gas but they can definitely have intestinal blockages that can cause them to bloat up. Swim bladder problems usually present themselves by the fish not being able to maintain a stable position. It can't control it's floatation and will often rise repeatedly to the surface like a bubble. With considerable effort the fish can swim down away from the surface but as soon as it stops trying it floats back to the top and may hang there, upside down, on its side and right side up.

If the fish has swim bladder problems due to a genetic defect or an internal growth then there may be nothing you can do. In the past I had goldfish with this problem. Diet helped somewhat but they were just prone to it. It probably shortened their life but they managed with it for a few years.

Some experts recommend treating with an antibacterial and that's definitely worth a try. Swim Bladder problems can be caused by a number of things. I would also do the Epsom salt as I suggested and make sure that you're not over feeding and you're also feeding the fish the appropriate food for the species.

Robin


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

I am not overfeeding, he hasn't eaten in 12 or so days now. I just talked to a guy at another pet shop and he suggested I massage him. He had done this to his as a last resort and it worked for him. I will try then when my husband gets home. I will post the results.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> I am not overfeeding, he hasn't eaten in 12 or so days now.


Sorry, I know you said that. With fish that have a tendency towards this problem you want to be extra careful of what and how much they eat. So when your fish gets back on eating you'll want to watch that. 

Would you say that your fish fits the description of a swim bladder problem from the description I've written above?

How are the other fish? You mentioned that they had slowed down but didn't give the details

Robin


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

I have read that Paragon II worked with swim bladder. I can't seem to find it. Anyone know what stores might carry it? At this point I am not even sure it is swim bladder but I really can't find anything else that fits the symptoms. I did buy some melafix. Don't know if it will help.


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

also, can I upload a pic so anyone who reads this can see what is going on with the fish? I can't seem to figure out if I can.


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

My fish is doing exactly what you described. He will swim down and then come right back up and seems like he struggles to stay in place. The other fish have slowed down with eating but probably due to ick treatment and stress of water changes. Otherwise they are fine.


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/ ... /snook.jpg


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

I posted a link so you see what is going on with the snook. I have tried everything. Any more suggestion? PLEASE!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

One of the problems with Swim Bladder disorders is that the swim bladder can be affected by many different things. 
I see the bulge you're talking about in the picture. This could be any number of things: a growth, an intestinal blockage, parasites or an internal bacterial infection. Any of which could be causing the problem with the fish's swim bladder which in turns is preventing him from swimming normally.

I've seen Paragon II recommended for Swim Bladder disorders. If your fish's swim bladder is being impacted by a bacterial infection then this may work and since there's no way of knowing if it is or isn't bacterial, treating with Paragon II is definitely worth a try. There's really not much else to try. 
Unfortunatley I couldn't find any online place that has it either. :? I know one of the ingredients is Metronidazole. If you do a little more online searching to find the other ingredients then I'm sure you can find another med that's going to give you the same thing.

Perhaps someone else can chime in with an online supplier of Paragon II???

Robin


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

Paragon II is the only thing I have read for meds. I read the company went out of busines and I haven't been able to find any left-overs. I even tried Ebay. I put Melafix in the tank as a suggestion from fish store. If I find something with Metronidazole in it would you do a water change first due to other meds in tank? I don't want to do an overkill here. I am trying to find out the differnce in bloat and swimbladder. I am almost positive it is swim bladder. He is going on two weeks now so I don't suspect he has too much time left. I also read not to use aquarium salt after I did. This is getting too confusing and too many remedies, possibly wrong ones.


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

Here is what I found for the metronidazole...AquaZole â„¢ is a metronidazole-based medication for both freshwater and marine fish. It is effective against Cryptocaryon, Hexamita, Ichthyophthirius and other external parasites.
Doesn't seem like it would work since it says external parasites.


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

Yesterday I thought the tinfoil barb looked funny. I am posting of pic of him from this morning. When I did all the water changes and removed the filters, did I mess up the biologial bed?
I also have read about stringy poop. I saw this floating in tank. It is looped over tube. Pretty long. Is this normal?
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/ ... light1.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/ ... 0_0173.jpg
Hope someone has some suggestions


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Did you remove the filters or just the carbon? Is there any filtration going on the tank? If in doubt about your beneficial bacteria you should test your water for ammonia and nitrite. Just to clarify: when medicating a tank you only want to remove the carbon from the filters. Sometimes that means slitting the filter cartridge open and shaking out the carbon. You want to keep the rest of the cartridge running in the filter because that's where most of your beneficial bacteria resides.

I would not worry about the Aquarium salt. It's not going to hurt your fish unless you dumped huge amounts in all at once.

I don't blame you for being frustrated on this. Swim Bladder problems don't have just one cause so that makes it harder to treat.

I'd go with the Metronidazole but I'd go with Seachems Metronidazole powder. In the site's library there's an article on Spironnucleus. In it there's some good directions for treating a fish with Metronidazole. You might consider using that dosage rather than the one on the package.

Robin


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

sorry to say I did remove the filters. That with all the water changes, I am sure I messed up the beneficial bacteria. I had my water tested yesterday and it was good except for slightly high in nitrates. I got some stress zyme 9with live bacteria)and did a 10% water change along with putting my carbon filters back in. I was told the ick cure with melocite (sp) could be the problem with the tinfoil barb issues. I think for now I going to get all the meds out of the tank and give them a break. I am going to get a smaller tank for treating the red bay and hope he makes it. I am hoping that one of the pet stores carries the metronidazole. I will keep you posted on the outcome. thanks for all the input.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Monitor your water parameters closely over the next few weeks since your tank will likely go through at least a mini cycle with the addition of the filters. Rinse the media out before you put them back in so the dead bacteria on them doesn't foul your water .

Good luck with it and please let us know how it turns out. Metronidazole is a fairly common ingredient so even if you can't find the Seachem powder you should be able to find a med that has it.

Robin


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/ ... 0_0172.jpg

I uploaded the wrong file before. Here is the right one for the tinfoil barb


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## dbestnindy (Aug 14, 2008)

the snook in now swimming around like nothing was ever wrong. AND EATING He went for over a month with no food. His dorsel fins is all but shriveled (due to the floating) up but I hope it grows back. I am not sure what go him going but he is back.


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