# Black spots spreading on fish



## calvushead

Need Help, it has spread into three tanks..I have used jungle parasite Clear,Clout and Fungus Clear...I dont know if this is a Fungus,Parasite or a infection....Cant find any info on the net.....Has anyone seen this before?( this is the first time I have tried to upload a pic hope it works)


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## calvushead




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## calvushead

Heres a bigger pic.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll19 ... 1209167865

I feed NLS cichlid pellets and NLS Thera A..Ans HBH Cichlid frenzy flake....Is this a parasite,Fungus,or infection...need help.....Fish it a young Aulo.Fire fin female.


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## jmg1820

:x I have the same problem. I was just on here about to post the same question.


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## calvushead

can you post a pic...Mine doesnt look like the Black spot diease pics I have found on the web...Mine is flush with the fish body...the pics I have seen are black bumps like ick.....I think there is two differnt kinds of this.....its spreading and now in three tanks...I dont know how to treat it because I am unsure if its a parasite,fungus or a infection....


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## jmg1820

That sounds exactly like what I have. It is alomost like they are black spots of color on the fish. They are not raised at all. And a couple of them have it on their fins. I cannot post a pic, my camera is not good enough to catch it as the fish swim by.


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## mepeterser2451

i also had somethin like that on my mbuna but strangely it didn't appear on the convict or GT that were in the same tank. Its gone away though and didn't seem to do much harm. have no idea what it was. How long have you had your tanks set up? I'd suggest lots of water changes and decreasing the temp. a little. I've also had a lot of success treatin parasites on other fish with aquarium salt but i dont know with cichlids.


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## igetbombed1977

You are probably feeding too much Spirulina. These are called by some hobbyists "spirlunia spots". What do you feed the fish? If it's mostly a spirulina diet - you need to offer a bit more variety. Try to add a little freeze dried krill to their diet, or more of a protein flake. Will go away on it's own.


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## cichlidaholic

Not too much spirulina in NLS and TheraA... :wink:

Your other two potential problem areas are stress (can be caused by a myriad of different things) and something called "black ich", but with the treatments you have used, I can't believe it's that.

How is your tank maintenance?

What are your water parameters on all 3 tank?

Kim


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## calvushead

I Have been told this is a fungus...I believe it may be..But I cannot find any info on the web about this and it is not the "Black Spot Disease" parasite I have found on the web because the black spots look like paint on the fish not bumpy like ick .I wonder if it could be some type on infection?....I am now treating the tank with parasite Meds so I wont take water samples....I am starting to think this is some kinda fungus...and not the black spot parasite I have found on the web. :x


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## lovemycichlids805

I totally have the same thing going. It's on my moorii and one of my peacocks. I thought it was just weird, cause sometimes it just goes away. Let me know if you find a cure....lol.


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## calvushead

Mine has not gone away...its slowly appearing on other fish.I dont think any parasite could live thru the treatments I have done.....I am ruling out parasites for now.


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## cichlidaholic

cichlidaholic said:


> How is your tank maintenance?
> 
> What are your water parameters on all 3 tanks?
> 
> Kim


This would be the next thing I would look into...

Are you doing enough water changes and substrate vacuumings?

How long have the tanks been established?

Are there different sources for all of the fish, or did they all come from the same LFS or breeder?

Kim


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## Gibbs

Stress guys.

Ask yourselves were in the pecking order the fish with the black spots are. Most of the time they are at the bottom.
If there is also a preditor in the tank such as a Dim. Compressicep or Nim. Fusco then the smaller fish in the tank become a possible meal, at least thats what they think.
A small tank will also do it to.

In my own experience, when i first started out with cichlids i stocked all sorts of things in the one tank such as peacocks, red empress, small electric blues x2 and you guessed it a male Dim. compressicep which was an awesome fish, one that i loved to death but as he matured he became extremely aggressive, stalking and hunting everything. The smaller fish were running scared.

It got to the point were three of my fish including 2 peacocks and the electric blue were covered in black spots. So i got rid of Dim. Compressicep and without a doubt within 2 months all fish were back to there normal selves without a single black spot them.

In saying that i have heard that spiralina can cause this occurance also. Try a few different things like diet or maybe remove the into a tank of it's own, see if that get rid of it.
Some fish just don't suit the environment


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## calvushead

I do not believe it is caused from stress...heres why...That same female I posted in the pic.is now grown three time the size and has spawned four time now.....heres the weird part...when I strip the fry from her they almost all have the same black looking specks on the top of their heads...The fry develop their head first therefore I think some kinda fungus or infection is the culprit...I dont belive the fry are that stressed in her mouth...I have 16 tanks and have been breeding cichlids for 15 years I do keep my tanks clean.I have had people tell me its just a pigment in their skin/body but I do not see that spreading to other fish therefore I rule that out...I interduced her to my tanks and now I have a problem.I am not listing my water info because I have had every med. under the sun in my tanks the last two weeks....and I hate doing that(meds)...as far as spiralina goes the fish eat pure spiralina flake mixed with HBH cichlid flake just afew times a month and havent had pure spiralina in atleast one month..Their main diet is NLS cichlid pellets mixed with NLS Thera + A .......I have also used a whole bottle of melafix with no results(in the 29 gallon over many days) ....this problem is in two 55 gallon tanks and one 29 gallon tank....The Black Spots look like spray paint on the fish?.... :x...I wet a swab/qtip and rubbed it along a bad black spot on a fish and some very light black color tranformed too the swab/qtip.... :x


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## Shill

I have 3 fish in my tank that have like 1 black spot. It just mysteriously appeared also. I've been really on top of water changes, whenever I test my water, everything looks great, and I keep dealing with this kind of craziness. It just looks like pigment but not there yesterday and here today... makes me believe something else. But like you, not raised or anything.

Since I started my tank I've been treating almost constantly with something because my new fish keep wreaking havoc. My husband agreed yesterday that our next batch will be really expensive because they will come home WITH a hospital tank! This is for the birds!


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## Shill

Was doing a search online to find something out about this. Here's what I found...

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DG

Tiny round black spots in the skin of the fish. Often mistaken for normal coloring. Usually goes away on its own.

Commonly called Black Spot Disease.

Use one of the following Medications. Dose as directed.

In a fish only or quarantine aquarium:
No-Ich Marine and/or Formalin dip** to help eliminate the parasites on the fish.


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## calvushead

That black spot disease is a raised looking bump like ick trust me I have googled everything close to black spots on fish....Mine is flush like spray paint and I have treated the fish for two weeks with parasite meds....I treated some smaller fish/fry in a 10 gallon for 7 days straight with Formlin (formaldehyde 37%) made from "Aquaruim Products" and it had no effect....I called Kordon and they said there is two grades of Formalin and the 37% stuff is generic...Kordon reconmended their Formalin-3 product (Formmaldehyde less then 3 %)...I am going to use this as a dip/bath treatment......I was also told from Kordon that Praziquantel only has a 6 month shelf life (thats is 1 of the 4 chemicals in Jungles "Parasite Clear")...


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## Marconis

Hey I am having this same problem as well with my Acei. It started out as one black marking on his top fin when I first bought him. Now, he has a bunch...on his fins, and a bit on his body (Mainly fins). It's concerning me. Hope we can all find a solution.


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## Gibbs

What fish are you guys keeping in the tanks that are experiencing this problem.

What are the dimensions of the tank etc....

In the case of the Acei, they are a schooling fish and are happy in groups of five or six perhaps adding more Acei will help.

I'm still convinced it's a stress reaction. Just like we break out on our skin under stress


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## Marconis

My tank is a 72 gallon bowfront, not quite sure of the dimensions except it is 4ft long. In it, I have 7 Yellow Labs, and 5 Acei.


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## Patience

Strangely, I've noted what may be the same type black spot on a female yellow lab in my 75 gal tank. She's fairly small, but has spawned 4 times since I got her late Aug 07. The spot does not appear raised. It has grown, but is still fairly small--maybe 1/8" dia. She seems to behave normally, but I am concerned as the spot is growing. She may be stressed, as she is often chased by virtually every other cichlid in the tank--other than small fry, and frequently tries to hide, even when not holding. Based on your comments, I may move her to a "hospital" tank for a little vacation. Temp 80 deg F, PH 8, 25% water change weekly. thanks,[/img]


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## Gibbs

[


> quote="Patience"]Strangely, I've noted what may be the same type black spot on a female yellow lab in my 75 gal tank. She's fairly small, but has spawned 4 times since I got her late Aug 07. The spot does not appear raised. It has grown, but is still fairly small--maybe 1/8" dia. She seems to behave normally, but I am concerned as the spot is growing. She may be stressed, as she is often chased by virtually every other cichlid in the tank--other than small fry, and frequently tries to hide, even when not holding. Based on your comments, I may move her to a "hospital" tank for a little vacation. Temp 80 deg F, PH 8, 25% water change weekly. thanks,[/img]


[/quote]

It would be a really good idea just to see the outcome, get her healthy and happy

I also beleive that holding females come under a fair amount of stress when conatantly holding due to the fact that they are continually fasting and not eating properly, constantly hiding in cover because they cant defend themselves


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## Marconis

I was trying to ignore this problem, but it just recently got worse on my Acei. Two of them have these spots, and I really think it has to do with stress. The reason I think this is because the two Acei that have it are the largest in the tank,and are constantly chasing eachother around nipping at each other. One constantly shakes violently, at least twenty times a day.


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## Gibbs

Try removing one if possible. It may be that 2 males are clashing for dominance and neither are willing to give in. Constant harrassment was my cause to.


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## calvushead

Yes Thats what I have and it is still spreading thru 3 tanks....One of my biggest (boss) fish has this and also smaller fish are like that as well....I am thinking its a fungus?... I have also noticed that on a few fish in the local cichlid store....I pulled some fry out of the mouth of a fish that has this and the fry even had it on their heads....?..It is slowly spreading from fish to fish...I do 20%-50% water changes weekly I have been using salt for a few weeks now.. all water is treated with prime (2 drops per gallon) ..Temp 78-80f..I switched food for a few weeks and after that started feeding alot less...I have tried every parasite med under the sun....some people think this is a pigment in their skin... I dont believe that skin pigments spread to other fish...The fish seem healthy just have that black stuff on them?This is not the bird/snail/fish black spot disease....That second pic is whats in my tanks (well 3 of 16 tanks).Your pic is a good pic. Hopfully other people know how to cure this.


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## SubMariner

Here is the Answer...I believe and I am quite sure that it is a type of parasite. I've seen it alot on fish that come from Farm Raised Breeders. It is almost impossible to remove and it will eventually kill the fish between now and the next 3 months. If you keep your water quality clean and with lots of Malawi Salt that helps from it breaking out more.

Another solution, which I have tried is to throw him in a bucket with the same water and use 7-9 Drops of FORMALIN. Keep the fish in the bucket for about 30-45 minutes with an airstone because he's going to need it. You need to monitor the fish carefully while in the bucket because he could OD on the Formalin and want to get out as soon as possible. This treatment might help temporarily, so Good Luck. The Formalin knocks off all the parasites hanging on his body. :thumb:

Regards,

SubMariner


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## cichlidaholic

I have experienced this in my tanks on occasion, as well. I've never lost one single fish to it, and I've never treated it. It always resolves on it's own.

However, I've never had more than one fish affected with the black spots at once, and on the one fish that is affected, it's never been severe.

If it is parasitic, I believe they would behave in a manner that would indicate it. They would flash, and there should even be other outward signs, such as clamped fins.

Makes me wonder if it's due to different water treatments the water plants use in different areas???

Kim


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## SubMariner

I've seen it before and you may think it goes away, but it's always on the fish or goes inside the fish. This parasite doesn't really force the fish to make him dart or scratch, it just begins to penetrate his scales and then choke his gills. You're fish are fortunate because you probably do regular water changes and keep the ph up, which controls the parasite from destroying the fish. Try to track where you bought the fish from. Was it a Breeder, Farm, LFS or a Cichlid club member. Investigate. :wink:

Good Luck,

SubMariner


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## Gibbs

I don't beleive that it is parasitic for a few reasons. 
For one the markings my fish had seem to come and go in a matter of minutes, for example when i observed the fish in question with no lights on the spots were few and far between but when i turned the lights on within a few minutes the spots became more and more obvious.
The fish in question once the spots actually disappeared is still alive today, so i dismiss the suggestion of it killing the fish, and add to that the fish had these markings for about 6 months before i decided i had to do something.

As in Kim's case my fish acted as if it didn't even know it was carrying the markings, no flashing no heavy breathing and ate as usuall. I don't have any live plants in my tank to so we can add that to the books, and it has never spread.

Hopefully we can get rock solid answer pretty soon

There is an actuall parasite that does hang on to the fishes skin causing a raised lump but this is different


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## lloyd

i can't believe this topic is still up for debate. it is so popular, and has afflicted so many african cichlids, one would think it to be quite desired to have a sample diagnosed definitively. i will send $5.00 to the first person who posts such valued information here. :thumb:


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## SubMariner

Gibbs, apparently we are not talking about the same spots here. It seems that the dots you're fish have are not the one's I speak of clearly. So for the record, I know for a fact that the spots I speak of which come from Farm Breed Fish DO kill fish,you don't know what you're talking about.

I do because, I'm the one who lost my precious fish and to deal with the loss, not you. I researched it and even spoke to the breeder from that farm, which I will not mention by name, who agreed with me and replaced my fish. So I rebuke your response clearly...

So for the record, you are incorrect and the particular spots I speak of are parasites. Let me reiterate, the breeder himself agreed with me that it is a relentless parasite. Therefore, let us go forward and move on with this topic.

SubMariner


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## Gibbs

SubMariner i think you may be on the wrong track of this discussion.
I think you are talking about something completely different to the rest of us.
I am sorry for loss you obviously had a hard time dealing with it :?


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## cichlidaholic

Gibbs said:


> Hopefully we can get rock solid answer pretty soon


The only way you're going to get a rock solid answer is to take a fish that is affected to a vet and get him/her to do a biopsy on the fish. Or, you might get a university student to do it for you...

Do a search on the forum. This subject has been dealt with hundreds of times and the answers are always the same. No one really knows anymore about it than what is contained in this thread.

I believe there is a "black spot" disease that _is_ parasitic. :thumb:

I just don't believe it's the common discolouration of pigment that we see frequently in these fish.

If it was parasitic, the fish would react as if it were.

Kim


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## Gibbs

Completely agree :thumb:


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## Territorial

Has anyone found an answer yet. My fish are getting these black spots too.


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## cichlidaholic

Territorial said:


> Has anyone found an answer yet. My fish are getting these black spots too.


The answer isn't going to be found without each individiual who experiences this problem taking their fish for testing, be it a culture/biopsy of the affected areas, or a necropsy once the fish is dead.

I still believe that most cases where the spots are flush with the body, they are harmless and brought on by stress or diet, or just a factor of water conditions the fish have been kept in.

If the black spots are raised and not flush with the body, then I would treat for external and internal parasites.

Keep in mind that either way, your fish may be sick - a sick fish is usually a stressed fish, so watch for other signs...Are their fins clamped? Are they eating and behaving normally otherwise? Are they flashing? Are they being overly harrassed in the tank?

If your fish aren't showing any signs of illness, step up the water changes, take a good look at what you're feeding them, and determine the stress levels for the fish involved. :thumb:


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## Territorial

Thanks a lot. I will have to check water parameters. I have been using enzymes instead of bateria to keep my aquarium clean. I will stop using enzymes and use bacteria instead. Thanks for the reply.


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## cichlidaholic

Territorial said:


> I have been using enzymes instead of bateria to keep my aquarium clean. I will stop using enzymes and use bacteria instead.


Not sure what this means...Beneficial bacteria builds up in the filter media of a tank, and is naturally occuring. (You might read up on the nitrogen cycle in the library here to help you understand more about this.) The bacteria don't _clean_ your tank, they just help to maintain a healthy balance for your fish to live in. There are "bad" bacteria that grow in a tank, as well.


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## blairo1

This is very interesting.

It sporadically appears on my P. taeniatus Dehane too, although what you guys are posting pics of seems a bit more concentrated and finer in appearance - my suspicion is that it is where the pair have been nibbling at one another (primarily along the underside of the head on females and on the tail of the males) this would make sense as it is how they most often seem to push each other to breed and I thought it may be some sort of bruising that affects the pigmentation in the area, resulting in the dark colour/black spot - these are clearly not attached to or under the skin.

The characteristics of the markings on my fish are clearly the result of some sort of damage to the pigment and the resulting "bruise" appears as it heals.

It has concerned me though because I've only noticed it since I moved them to another tank - they would occasionally get one or two I suppose, but not as drastically as they do now - I suspect it is partly due to there being less cover in the tank. It is very odd and little can be found about it, the problem is that any searches for such information usually yield the black spot disease and it most certainly is not that in my case.

Parameters, I suspect, are much in line with the rest of you, ie Ammonia 0mg/L, Nitrate <10mg/L. 50% weekly WC, although on this tank I sometimes miss the week change and it's a couple of days late, but that's worst case and even then nitrates only just hit 10mg/L.

None of my other fish have shown any signs of it, they all eat well, are active, want to spawn, are not reclusive etc.

Those of you who are noticing this, have you seen the fish in question quarrelling? Have they bred recently? What is their order of heirarchy? I would find it particularly odd to occur on a fish that has seemingly received no potential trauma to the areas affected - I am not certain that it is the result of quarrels with mine, but judging by the areas they do nip each other whilst courting it does seem incredibly likely and more than coincidence.


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## cichlidaholic

Interesting thoughts, Blair...

In my cases, I tend to lean towards stress being the cause, but I've got a reason for that.

Back in the day, I had a pair of the dreaded Blood parrot fish in a tank for quite some time. Both were full adult size with the glow in the dark pinky orange colouration...I came home one afternoon to find the large male dead in the front corner of the tank, and the female hovering over him, covered in the small black spots like we see in the pics. She was seriously nudging him and trying to get him up. I removed him, thinking she was sick with whatever had killed him, and went to the LFS I got them from to get advice since they had a large display tank of them for a long time. They assured me that she was just stressed and to give it time and it would go away. They were right...She sulked for a week, and the black spots slowly disappeared as she started behaving more like her old self...But she didn't rally back completely until I dropped another friend in for her. Then all those black dots disappeared overnight. :roll:

It's happened in two other instances for me, but with mbuna. One was a female Cynotilapia Mbamba at a chaotic time when the male was determined to spawn with every female in the tank, and another was the same male at a time when his reign as king of the tank was threatened. I don't think either stemmed from injury, though, and all instances resolved on their own in my tanks within a couple of weeks - or when the stress went away.


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## blairo1

I hope the OP doesn't object but I thought it would be useful or at least interesting to post up what I'm seeing on my fish for comparison, is this the same sort of thing as everyone else is seeing, or is it different?

What I find so odd about mine is that the spots are not all black - as you will see in the pics some appear to be intensified in colouration. The fish themselves are as colourful as ever. It is very odd as no new fish have been added to their tank for about a month, not only that but those fish never displayed these symptoms, nor do any of the other fish in the tank with them.

A & B. Here you can see the areas of intense colouration in the males tail - the black areas along the edge of the fin, the intense red in the marking:









C. Here you can see the black splodges (they're hardly spots) on the female:









D. Shows the spot on the opecular. E. Shows the intense pigmentation spots. F. Shows the dark spot on the forehead (showing it is not raised):









G. Self explanatory really. H. Shows how the lips are blackened, see the final pic for how her lips should look:









I. Showing the spots along the chest more clearly:









Here is the "control" pic:









I really can't figure it out, it seems to vary so much from person to person, the markings of the lips and their similarity in appearance to the colouration on the skin leads me to believe it is some form of bruising, but then I am at a loss as to how the tail may receive such trauma (unless bitten). This doesn't go on to explain how some area's seem to intensify in colouration whereas others turn black, unless it is at a later stage of healing. I also wonder whether it may have something to do with the larger grained substrates in some instances (especially due to markings on lips and chest area).

Is this similar to what everyone else is talking about, I found it hard to tell from previous photos.

I'm sorry if you feel this is off track OP please feel free to request it removed, I just thought it relevant to get some close-up pics in here to see if this is what we're all dealing with.

:thumb:


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## cichlidaholic

Blair, this is an older thread that was recently resurrected so I don't think anyone will mind you adding pics.

That looks identical to the spots that appeared on my Cynotilapia, except neither of my fish had as many...Kind of like black freckles...The BP was covered with spots just like those.


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## blairo1

So you feel it is more to do with stress than blunt trauma, I can understand that - in this instance these were moved 6weeks ago, from their birthplace and into a (only slightly) smaller aquarium - I know this aquarium doesn't compare to the aquarium that was their birthplace in terms of aquascape (not aesthetic, practical) and a lot of factors are different - lack of plants, less cover, larger grain substrate (not sand for digging) and less dithers as tank mates....

It is a reasonable assumption to make, to see with mine I have removed the substrate and decoration - this is to remove the potential for blunt trauma whilst attempting to dig/mate and will allow me to see very easily whether the pair are biting each other.

I will be watching to see if the spots increase or decrease in size and or number. If they begin to recede after removing the large substrate etc and I've not witnessed any aggression then I guess it may point to the marks being areas of blunt trauma, if it does not decrease (or if it in fact increases) and I have still not seen any aggression between the pair then I think it is safe to say that it is a stress related issue of some form. If I do witness a quarrel I hope to see where the nipping occurs so that I may then watch this area for the marking to appear....

:fish:


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## cichlidaholic

IME, it's been stress...

That's not to say I wouldn't treat for external parasites if I had a fish with black spots on it that started flashing or rubbing against objects in the tank. I know that there is a parasite that exists that causes black dots, much like ich - I've seen meds specifically for "black ich", but I just don't think that's what we're dealing with in most cases. (One of these days I'll have my glasses on when I'm in the LFS and pick up the bottle and see what the ingredients are! :lol: )


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## greenbirds

blairo1, your photos are EXACTLY what I have seen with some of my tanganyikans. I have a pair of leleupi who both have the spots on their throat and the discoloration along the bottoms of their pelvic, anal, and caudal fins. A few spots have also shown up on the forehead/upper side of the head. They have bred twice since these spots developed.

I used to house them in a 55gal tank. You can see a photo I posted in this thread: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... t=#1163572

I have since moved them to a lightly stocked 135 (lots of hiding spots, good water quality, no stress), and for the first few weeks the spots disappeared. Now they have returned despite no fish additions or changes in the tank. The single yellow calvus they live with has the same spots and discoloration on the bottoms of his fins, too. He keeps to himself, so that leads me to think this does not have to do with any aggression or nipping/courtship trauma. I have never observed any flashing or rubbing against rocks or substrate. The single daffodil brichardi and single julie marlieri in the tank do not show any spots.

The spots have been there for about 6 months now and I have not had a sickness or death.


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## blairo1

It is odd isn't it!

On a side note since removing all substrate (which I suspect was too large/sharp) the black spots on the mouth and head/breast area, as well as the spots near the edges of fins, have begun to recede - although not yet gone completely they are certainly reduced. We will see what happens. The mouth area is most noticeable as it very quickly returned to normal colouration.

I have just put a very fine layer of large grained sand in the tank and a single man-made cave/mould - which I know has no sharp edges, all nice and smooth, both of which have been used with these fish many times with no issue. If the spots continue to recede and disappear to me that is a clear indicator that in my instance it was related to the substrate in fact, probably in combination with stress (potentially stress caused by substrate choice.)

That the spots have receded in a bare tank with changes going on (stressful) really seems to confirm my suspicions, it at least shows that it perhaps isn't entirely stress that causes it, although it is undoubtedly related. It does seem odd that it would be the substrate but since changing that single factor the spots have receded.


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## tonman

how did you get on with this?
I added 2 Aluna to my set up about 1 month ago they now black spots on them, one more than the other. I am treating the water with salt & heat at the moment. 
Any help would be great.


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## SupeDM

Ok i also have fish with these black spots that seem to come and go. I think that I will sacrifice one to the curious fish gods and have a vet look at it under a scope to see if they can ID the problem. Hopefully it is pathological and they can tell me clearly what it is.


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## Gaynor

I have got the same spots on a couple of my red zebras, I was told that it was too much spirulina in their diet, Mine have had it for quite a few months, it hasn't spread to any other fish, and are in perfect health - apart from the spots, as they have had no ill effects I am leaving mine.


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## MissAamie

I stumbled on this awesome forum in the search for an answer to my problem. I recently purchased 2 beautiful cichlids that were obviously from some kind of a fish farm. When I got them home, I too noticed each had several black spots. They are pinprick in size and massed together in several areas on my fish. They look as one commented, like a spraypaint mist. They are not raised and my fish are not acting funny. I am scared this will continue to spread to my other fish and am desperate for answers. I am currently trying to get a close up pic for everyone to view. Any help on this is extremely appreciated!


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## 55gal

Wow, sounds like a very common problem ????? is it really a problem, no one really seems to know. :-? 
I also have black dots on my Cichlids, they have had them for a while. I thought it might be the veggie wafers that contain spirulina at first, so I stopped feeding them this product, no change. :-?

I know in my case that it's not caused by poor water conditions, the only thing I can think of is stress, where all Cichlids are naturally aggressive. ??????

I guess, if their acting and eating normally, I really don't think that it's a major problem. ????

A well maintained tank is a happy tank 8)


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## justinf67

I'll add to this. I have added some fish recently, and I noticed flashing. I added some salt and the flashing subsided. a month later, no salt, it started again. I added a small amount of salt, and it has slowed the flashing some. I need to pick up more and do the full dosage. I have noticed some black spots on my red zebras. I have had them for about 1 1/2 months and there wasnt any black spts until yesterday. I watched closely, and I have seen 2 out of the 3 affected have stringy poo. whats weird is I have just started to dose with seachem metronidazole in their food a few days ago. I know its not a water quality issue as I do at least weekly water changes and my parameters are: ph 8.0, ammonia 0ppm, nitrite 0ppm, and nitrate 10ppm... I dont get it.... I am going to pick up some salt and dose 2 tablespoons per 5 gallons and see if that knocks it down. I will keep it going for at least 2 weeks....The fact that I see some string poo from the black spot affected fish tells me its bacterial or fungal not stress... these fish dont get picked on at all...


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## SupeDM

1 dead Aulonacara Baenchi and $100 later we still have no conclusive answer I took the fish to the local vet clinic and explained the situation to the vet. He agreed to sample the tissue and see if it was anything he could identify. He called me and informed me that it was definately not parasitic and as far as he could conclude it was also not the result of a bacterial infection either. He said that it could be caused by overproduction of pigment caused by improper diet or stress. Sorry I could not be of more help with this one.


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## Gibbs

Thanks for doing that SupeDM. We can rule out parasitic infection and bacterial infection which is a big result so thankyou, we will all remember the baenchi perhaps we will make this day an annual holiday  .

Leaves stress and diet and water quality. My water quality is very good. I have always believed that these spots are caused by stress so i will stick to that, thats not to say i cannot be swayed.
The blunt trauma injury i dont think it is. I had a champsochromis bite my rostratus badly which obviously caused him alot of pain the way he was jerking his body around, the rostratus then ran straight into the glass almost at top speed. No spots appeared on the bite area or his face were he smashed into the glass.

I have just recently started a 180g all male hap tank and i have 3 fish that have broken out in a few spots. Aulonocara Lwanda, Buccochromis Roadesii and a red empress, None of these fish had the spots before i added them to the tank, all fish are new and are fed exclusively NLS. The spots on the red empress are receeding, and i think they will be completely gone in a week or 2. I think the stress of a new environment has caused the spots. The jousting for position is slowing up for the red empress which seems to relax alot, however the bucco and the lwanda are either being chased or chasing, they never stop and as a result their spots are still growing. I believe this is due to the amount of stress these 2 fish are under as they try to fit into the scheme of things. They both are aggressive fish however other fish in the tank have the size fight them off.


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## SupeDM

This has got me going a little. I am going to do a few experiments to see if I can find some cause. First Thing I am going to set up 2 empty bare bottom 20 gallon tanks. Then I am going to remove a fish with the black spots for each tank. I am going to try a diet change on one tank only for a couple weeks and see what happens. After that I am going to try changing something else for a while to see if it works. I am going to keep trying things untill I lose my mind or find the cause.


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## Gibbs

Great news. I am also trying something to do with feeding. I missed a couple of days of feeding last week and the spots seemed to receed a little. This week i increased feeding mand the spots are on the increase. I am going to go very light on the feeding over a 2 week period and see what the outcome is. Gonna stick to feeding exclusively NLS.
If that doesn't produce an outcome i might turn my attention to lighting to see if that has any effect at all.
Keep us posted SupeDM, ill let the outcome of my short experiment be known in 2 weeks.


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## sakie

I once had this problem with the black spot like some kind of black ink painted on the fish. I was feeding the fish with the Xtreme Cichlid Diet food and when my Xtreme ran out, I couldn't buy more from my lfs so I tried out the NLS. Holy batman, after a month or so of feeding the NLS, those black spot just ... disappear!!. My malawi cichlid looks so much better in color and health. Right now, I got my hand on some of those Xtreme pellet and I once again feed it to my cichlid...gosh..those black spot appear again. Therefore, my conclusion to this black spot thingie on my cichlid is due to their diet. I think Xtreme have more spirulina than NLS or maybe some other stuffs in there that I do not know, lol. So don't worry about those black spot except it look kinda ugly on a color fish, but worry when your fish suddenly stop eating and laid on it stomach at the botton of the tank.


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## non_compliance

Hmmm... this thread is interesting no doubt. My problem fish is a female Zebra Oblique... victorian....

She has the spots ALL OVER. It reminds me of like black mold or something, but as people have mentioned in here, it has NO TEXTURE and appears to be more like ink. My fish has it all over the body, as well as in teh webbing of the fins. I will have to try to get a picture.

I feed dainichi color FX mixed with veggie FX. I wonder if those both contain a lot of spirulina... I'll have to change it up a bit.


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## SupeDM

Just a update in two of the tanks that I tried I have seen the black spots disappear. The first tank I stopped using food that contained spirulina and the second tank I changed to a single species tank. Bolth tanks have the same number of fish 1 male and 4 female Pundamalia Nyerie in one and 1 male Hap Sp. Flameback and 3 female taiwan reef in the other. Bolth are on the same water change schedule from the same tap water. Still requires a little more time and experimentation to rule anything out I will update again soon.


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## rarefaction

Please clarify, did the single species tank receive any spirulina?


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## SupeDM

Yes The pundamalia are still receiving a staple flake food that contains some spirulina. Its not heavy on Spirulina. Its OSI cichlid Flake. In the other tank they have been switched over to earthworm and brine shrimp flake.


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## wolvo23

any updates on this thread? i also have this problem, it went away for about 18months and now it has come back


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## rarefaction

wolvo23 said:


> any updates on this thread? i also have this problem, it went away for about 18months and now it has come back


I never stopped feeding spirulina and most of my "spotting' cleared up over the last 6 months. It is my theory that the black spotting is indeed from aggression stress. None of the bullies ever seem to show a spot, but the little guys at the other end of the pecking order have shown the most "black spots" (mostly around the head and mouth, one Acei had a spot on the tail... now gone). Any changes to your stock lately? Or a major redecoration effort perhaps?


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## tires_6792

Not a cure but maybe can help understand or maybe narrow causes down.
http://www.freewebs.com/pbaquatics/articles.htm


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## Angie pangie

:fish:

hiya im new 2 this site but also had the dreaded black spot on my african cichlids, they were and are still producing like rabbits , so i guessed it was not stress or was gonna kill them, part water change each week bla bla bla......it just looked gastley!!
i read on here someone had been feeding their fish with (New life spectrum) instead of spiraliner?
so thought i would give it a try , i also stopped feeding them as much and cut down on bloodworm as i head 2much is not great?
with in a week its cleared up :wink: YAY
New life spectrum is a tad pricey but was well worth it....
if your hving same problem worth a try...i got mine on ebay ....


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## 69183

Having the same problem with a couple of my acei and think I saw a spot on one of my yellow labs. Been reading that these black spots can be caused by too much spirulina in their diet.... Wonder if could be caused by a lack of spirulina????

Feeding my fishies Omega One Super Color Cichlid pellets. Checked the manufacturer's web site and the ingredients are listed below.... no spirulina...

Guaranteed Analysis
Min. Crude ProteinÃ¢â‚¬Â¦.38%
Min. Crude FatÃ¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦.12%
Max. Crude FiberÃ¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦.2% 
Max. MoistureÃ¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦..8.5%
Max. AshÃ¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦...8%
Min. PhosphorusÃ¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦.(.5%) 
Min. Omega 3 Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦. 1%
Min. Omega 6Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦..(.5%)

INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Halibut, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Krill, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, Zeaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative).


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## Kristin T.

Hi. I live in Norway, so sorry that my english is not the best. 
I had different malawi ciklids with black spots all over, also on their fins. A salmon-vet took skin-samples and used a microscope to see what the problem was.
She said that the black spots are melanin-cells, something the fish produces as immune defense (from parasite, ammonium, mite, nematode and so on). The black spots are not the problem, but they are a bad sign that tells you that the fish has trouble with something that makes small wounds. If you find out what the problem is and eliminate it, the spots will disappear after some months. Water-changes is important.

As you already has written: Stressed fish gets this easy. But that is because stressed fish has lower immunity, and gets easy sick. In the aquarium there are lots of microscopic creatures, and the fishes has to deal with them all the time. That is not a problem as long as the fish is strong and healthy. But weak fish can be effected. 
Often holding females, fish being bullied, dirty water, too bad filtration, wrong food, new environment and so on: They are all stressed in different ways.
After I got this information the black spots is no longer a problem. 
Spirulina-spots is mostly on the head. The black spots I`m talking about appear on the body and fins, and the fish can also be skinny and shows discomfort.

On this picture you`ll see a too often holding Sciaenochromis fryeri female with "Black spots":
http://akvaforum.no/images/forum/15886_168285_1.jpg
Hope this can be helpful for you.
Kristin


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## Kristin T.

So what do you think? 
Was this understandable? And did it sound reasonable?
Just wonder since no one has replied :roll:


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## sidharthbanyal

It is a result of poor water quality being that the ammonia level in the aquarium has spiked. When the ammonia level in your tank increases it causes black spots to appear on the goldfish body and black tips to appear on the tail, pectoral fins and dorsal fins. These black spots are a result of ammonia burn. People should think of ammonia like acid, when the ammonia is extremely high it cause ammonia burn, just like acid would do to human skin. It causes discomfort in your goldfish and high levels of ammonia can kill your goldfish.


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## tires_6792

sidharthbanyal said:


> It is a result of poor water quality being that the ammonia level in the aquarium has spiked. *When the ammonia level in your tank increases it causes black spots *to appear on the goldfish body and black tips to appear on the tail, pectoral fins and dorsal fins. These black spots are a result of ammonia burn. People should think of ammonia like acid, when the ammonia is extremely high it cause ammonia burn, just like acid would do to human skin. It causes discomfort in your goldfish and high levels of ammonia can kill your goldfish.


You seem to be stating this as the only cause. *** had them before on some fish and did regular water changes like clockwork. Mine was the cause of aggression in one case and too much spirulina in another type of fish. Its what i deduced and took the necessary steps and they went away after a period of time.

I believe each case needs to be looked at to find the specific cause or at least narrow it down.

If this person doesnt do regular maintanence and is overstocked/overfed then yes, i would agree its possible that it was the cause.


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## Catfish Dan

I have some of this going on in my tank now also. I have zero ammonia; I think that in my case it is caused by stress. The spots may be there one day and gone the next, a week later they'll be back again. They are mostly around the mouth area.


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## martin.r

I know this is an old post but I bought a yellow mbuna thinking the black was actually part of its colouration. The black was in large patches not small spots. However, it has been in my aquarium now for over 2 months - the black has not spread and the has actually decreased over the past few weeks for much smaller patches - I suspect if this keeps happening it will disappear completely. I change 40% water weekly and 80% every 6 weeks. This is the way I have always done it and it has been a succesful cichlid environment so far.

I use carib sea cichlid sand and ocean rock coupled with large shell cluster decor, all 3 combine for good PH buffering without use of chemicals. The only additive I use is water conditioner but chlorine levels are not very high to begin with.

Hope someone makes use of this - My first post.


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## martin.r

@ Kristin T

Your post is very useful, I have only just seen it. I agree with what you write about parasites in the water. As far as I am aware - fish live with them continuously regardless of how good the water quality is. The slime that covers the fish protects them from parasite attack - but stress reduces the slime coat and allows for parasite attack. Hence - Stress Coat + or similar product keeps your fish as healthy as they can be - I assume aquarium salt will also help.

I will keep posting on this topic as it is a new issue to me and only 1 cichlid is affected so far.

Mart


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## Kristin T.

Thank you Martin. 
This is a picture of a Labidochromis caeruleus with the same problem. Very weak, and with black spots. I think it first survived malawi bloat, but it was weakened of kidney problems (or something like that). Then it got parasites, and these black spots.
http://akvaforum.no/images/forum/15886_156402_1.jpg


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## D*N*R

rarefaction said:


> Please clarify, did the single species tank receive any spirulina?


whats the possible problem with spirulina? How can it cause black spots on fish??


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## rDORO85

calvushead said:


>


i actually have the exact same fish with the exact same spots

in the past month its been getting darker and its the only fish in the tank to have this problem. it doesnt seem like stress, because its seems to be getting bigger faster than the others and is one of my more active swimmers. my assumption was that it was just maturing and changing colors


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## ratbones86

if it is black spots "growing" on your fish check the ammonia lvls in your tank. Black spots o fish means they are getting ammonia burns. Only way i know is is because my buddies goldfish had this problem. Melefax and water changes and salt baths cleared it up in about 2 weeks. hope that helps!!!


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## DJRansome

Or maybe he is an OB fish?


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## rDORO85

DJRansome said:


> Or maybe he is an OB fish?


after seeing his fish, thats exactly what im thinking


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## TheJ0kerrr

My saulosi's have been displaying some black spots for a while now... They all seem to be healthy other than that, eating well, swimming well. I do a 20-25% water change every week and feed them almost exclusively NLS with a zucchini every once in a while (mostly for the ancistrus, but they also like it). I add a couple of tea spoons of baking soda and epsom salts when I do a water change.

I've had them since they were 4 weeks old and now they are about 4-5 months old.

Water params :
PH 8.4
Ammonia : 0
Nitrite : 0
Nitrate : 20ppm
KH : 13
GH : 24

Here are a couple pics and a video... if anyone can tell me what's up with that?


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## TheJ0kerrr

Welp, I spoke with the breeder who sold me those fish and it looks like they might be Williamsi North's after all... oops. I should know for sure pretty soon as their lips should turn blue.


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