# cleaning you tank... what you guys all do ?



## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

How do you guys clean your tanks and how often?
i have lots of rocks pilled up, do you just use power head and blow all the poo out then syphon it out? how often?
my water perms. are good just looking for some more ideas.
my cloudy water is killing me i cant take it almost like its milky and has microscopic things floating around in it very upsetting 5 months now..... :-?


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

It is recommended to change out at least 20% of your water every week, but this should vary depending on your stock and how large your tank is. If you are overstocked you certainly want to change more water, or more often. But a once a week water change is a minimum. Of course doing a gravel vac at the same time is a good way to go.

If you have a large pile of rocks, running a powerhead through them prior to the water change is probably a good idea to prevent build-up.

What are the stats on your tank? Dimensions/filtration & stock, and what is your regimen?


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

thanks stalefish
i have a 125 big foot print
2 emporer 400 HOB
1 marineland c530
both have the "stock" media but i pulled the carbon out of the basket in the c530 and stuffed it full of filter floss.
i have 30ish cichlids in my tank do not overfeed change 20-30 percent water at least once a week usually twice a week.
black sand substrate and white riff raff rock you would see around the average pond or lake.
but my water is milky and has very small particles floating and cannot for the life of me figure out why after being up and running for 5-6 months.
i have always used sand with these same filters only difference is stock, and the riff raff rock...... i am LOST!!


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

Have you tested the water? If so, what are the readings (Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate)?


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Sounds like you have reasonable filtration, my recommendation is to up the volume of water changes to 50%. With a black sand substrate, it is easy to see light colored detritus.

My 180 has a lot of rock, and I only remove it once a year or so to rescape. Otherwise I leave it alone. I do occasionally vacuum the sand, but don't bother moving rocks.

If increasing the volume of changes does not help, you might consider upgrading/adding to the filtration. A second large canister may help, as you can use finer media.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

my readings were normal last week, nodima I am thinking of ditching the c-530 and going with a fluval fx6 and my two HOB filters and see what happens for a few weeks i was doing 40-50 percent changes its just always been milky it does not look horrible or nasty just not what I was hoping for lol. I also have some API accu clear i might try for a few days see if that helps anything out.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

I think im going to pinch my pennies for the next few weeks and get another c530..... how do you guys set up two HOB and two canisters with you intake and out?


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## workharddieproud (Nov 7, 2013)

I have 3 HOB's and 1 canistier. Just have my filters spread over the length of the tank with all intakes extended all the way down.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

thanks for the info.... im still lost on why the water wont clear up surely i have enough filtration for 100 gallons of water.... does gh or kh have anything to do with the water clarity or maybe add some benificial bacteria to the tank.... maybe its cycling still or again idk im lost just wouldnt think 5-6 months of cloudy water is normal....


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## workharddieproud (Nov 7, 2013)

It's hard to say why, but I do not add ANY additives in my tank as I use a tap water filter. What's your water temp at? Tank have good water movement? Good idea to add a powerhead and have your canister spray bar pointed more upward to move the water on top.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

i pointed it up and down both nothing really changes helps move the poo off the sand if i point it down. not wave makers or anything in the tank. i use the two hang on backs to supply aearation at the top. no air stones or anything. do i clean the filters to much i just cleaned the c530 and filled it up with new filter floss but didnt touch the bio balls or the ceramic rings left them alone just washed the pads and replaced floss. the HOB are over due for cleaning the blue pads they come with i just reuse them as mechanical. sure i put carbon in the other slots on hang on back with the media holders.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

i was thinking of packing the media trays in the emporer 400s with carbon stop feeding the rest of week and do 50-70 percent water changes friday saturday and sunday this week..... any thoughts?


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## workharddieproud (Nov 7, 2013)

I also don't use any carbon in my tank, what kind of filter/floss you use? How often do you clean them? I use Poret Foam and clean all mine twice a month. Maybe your substrate and decor needs more thorough cleaning as well.


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

Carbon is pointless unless you are removing chemicals, like meds, and is only active for about a month. I'm not sure a "dirty" substrate or decor would continue to cloud a tank after this much time, unless it literally wasn't cleaned at all, and even then I would think that any excess floaties would've settled by now. It sort of sounds like an algae bloom, but your tank should be established, unless it never cycled to begin with. You said the readings were "normal" ... what test kit did you use? Did you test for ammonia (if so, what was the exact reading?)


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

ammonia o
nitrite 0
nitrate 20ppm 
ill check again tonight


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

the sand was black diamond sand was not cleaned i have dont it that way a few times before while the tank was cycling it would be stirred up and settled several times and be fine it was clear at one point with different rocks in the tank i wonder if the white rock you find around lakes and ponds i put in is the problem.... i wonder if it just powdery ??


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

Somehow I missed that you said the rocks were found around ponds and lakes... that could certainly be the problem. For some reason I thought they were collected from a river. River rocks are much better, imo, as they have constantly moving water rushing over them. Only certain types of rocks can withstand constantly moving water and won't be washed away, particle by particle over thousands of years until theirs nothing left. Soft rocks couldn't hold up in this type of environment for very long. Please note, there is absolutely NO science behind this statement, this is purely my speculation.

With that said, though, rocks sitting in stagnant water could slowly get broken apart, without being washed away, and when introduced into a much smaller body of water could certainly release their particles if it's a soft type of rock.

Take one of the rocks out, wipe it with a rag that's a different color, and see if any residue from the rock comes off on the rag. By residue, I don't mean algae. See if powdery rock stuff comes off on the rag. If it does, that's your culprit. Get some new rocks 

I hope that all makes sense


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

you are on to something stale fish!! i did not get them from a lake they cam from a landscape company but its what they use around drainage tile and fill in around lakes and ponds doesnt look bad cool shapes and really cheap 200 pounds for 9 dollars..... but if thats the culprit its gone!!


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

now that you mention it stale fish.... i am so stupid when i clean the tank and move rocks and i can see a white powder when they rub on each other....


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

Bingo! Glad to hear you've figured it out  sometimes the best hiding place is right out in the open. I've had more than a few "I'm so stupid" moments, but in reality, there are soooo many variables in this hobby that it can be really hard to find the one in 63 that's the actual problem. haha


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

im going to pull all the rock work out asap when i can find some new stuff see if that works i will report back thanks a million!!


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

Happy to help! It's always great to be a part of a solved mystery. I hope that's truly it (I'm sure it is) and you see clear water real soon


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Great detective work. I was going to say that I had a 150 set up with the biggest eheim canister filter and I was experiencing particles in the water too. After I had the big emperor HOB filter that seem to clear it up within a day or two and haven't had a problem since. I think your filtration is sufficient. I added extra canister filter media into the empty grey trays in the emperor for additional bio/mechanical filtration.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

guess what stale fish our grand detective work might be off a hair lol..... chester i do not have sufficient filtration. Turns out the old c-530 has a leak in the motor head took it and its full of water and junk is bypassing and going right back to the tank.... GOOD news i called marineland after a crappy 20 minute wait on hold i got a great rep who is sending me a brand new set up this filter a couple years old i could not be happier best people i have ever dealt with by far!! hopefully this really i the issue and will solve it we will find out end of next week and i will post back. or i will be going river rock hunting lol thanks guys!!


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

stalefish83 said:


> Somehow I missed that you said the rocks were found around ponds and lakes... that could certainly be the problem. For some reason I thought they were collected from a river. River rocks are much better, imo, as they have constantly moving water rushing over them. Only certain types of rocks can withstand constantly moving water and won't be washed away, particle by particle over thousands of years until theirs nothing left. Soft rocks couldn't hold up in this type of environment for very long. Please note, there is absolutely NO science behind this statement, this is purely my speculation.
> 
> With that said, though, rocks sitting in stagnant water could slowly get broken apart, without being washed away, and when introduced into a much smaller body of water could certainly release their particles if it's a soft type of rock.
> 
> ...


Rock type for rock type, there is no difference between those in a river and those in a pond, other than maybe some additional smoothing of river rocks. As long as the rocks are not super sharp, or have too much metals in them, they are fine from either rivers, ponds, or even the ocean.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

ok we thought they were making the water cloudy if you rub on the rocks white dust comes of in the water


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

ckkmgreen said:


> ok we thought they were making the water cloudy if you rub on the rocks white dust comes of in the water


That may be, but my point was that it is not due to where the rocks were collected, but due to the type of rock it is.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

yea that i do not no i will throw a pic up its just white drainage rock "rip rap"


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r61 ... tjtr9q.jpg

what are these rocks?


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

I don't know what those rocks are, but i do like the look of them in your tank. Have you considered painting the back of the tank to hide the filter boxes outside the tank? Your tank would look stunning with a black background, the rocks and fish would pop! That said, with such a drastic contrast between rock and sand, if anything chipped off the rocks, you'll see it. But I don't see a lot of evidence of fault line in the rock where the rocks would break, they look "solid" and true throughout. Seeing those rocks, I'd lean towards the filtration being the issue.

Hopefully, the replacement filter will eliminate your problem, and you won't need an additional filter.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Bet you're glad that you had secondary filtration on that tank!

On any tank over 90 gallons I have at least two filters on each one now for this exact sort of reason. It's like a little bit of insurance.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

yes i love having more filtration and i have to with all the fish. the back ground is black hard to see with the lights on. it is clearing up a bit over 12 hours with the c530 off but i still see small particles or mico bubbles in the tank. it just makes no sense whey when you touch the rocks that a "dust"comes off i really want to keep the rock but i think it may have to go to get crystal clear water......


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

it could simply be detritus settling on the rocks, in low flow areas. Increasing circulation may help this.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

ok i need a circulation pump anyway to move the poo around what size would be good on a 120g 5 foot tank? i'm not sure where to place it either i was thinking back glass middle of the tank so the water bounces off the front glass but what do you guys think after seeing my picture of the tank


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

nodima said:


> Rock type for rock type, there is no difference between those in a river and those in a pond, other than maybe some additional smoothing of river rocks. As long as the rocks are not super sharp, or have too much metals in them, they are fine from either rivers, ponds, or even the ocean.


I can certainly agree that merely the collection point cannot solely indicate whether a rock will work in an aquarium or not, but it seems reasonable to think that certain types of rocks will be found in specific places, and not others. A soft rock will simply not last in a river when you consider water's power to erode. i.e. rocks collected from a river will be durable. As such, one can be reasonably sure that if you collect a rock from a river (a swift river, sure), it will not leak residue into your aquarium. Stagnant water will certainly break down softer materials over time, but not nearly as quickly as moving water. This is the main reason why I mentioned that.

I understand now that he did not collect his rocks near a pond or lake, but I still think that the fact that when the rocks clanging together created a powder cloud indicates that this is mostly where the problem is. Filter problems aside, I still think the biggest factor is the rocks.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

yea stalefish im pretty sure the rock has a lot to do with it my new motor head will be in mid next week and im going to get a circulation pump tonight and get that all set up and see where it leaves me if new pump works right and its clear water ill be good if not im going rock hunting!!


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

quick update. got the c-530 fixed marineland sent me a whole new unit media and all which is awesome!! i also added an aqueon 1650 circulation pump while it was down *** got really good flow in the tank. the water is a lot clearer but not what it should be. still searching for the answer : (


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

You might Google talc (soapstone), see if that matches what you have.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

hmm i guess it could be talc after looking at some of the pictures, this rock is very hard tho you can smack it with a hammer it does not do much except big chips will come off no real powder. after the c530 back up and running water is 50% better but has small bubbles


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

what happens if you take two of the rocks and rub them against each other?


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

ckkmgreen said:


> when i clean the tank and move rocks and i can see a white powder when they rub on each other....


I still think this is your main culprit. Glad to hear the extra filtration is making a difference though! I don't think you're ever going to see truly clear water, though, until you get rid of those rocks. As much as I know that sucks, especially since they look so good in your tank.


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## ckkmgreen (Sep 9, 2014)

the extra filtration and the circulation pump is awesome and got rid of the clutter of the hob filters being ugly the rocks are completely brown now from an outbreak of some algae or diatoms not sure ill put up a picture. Won't be rock hunting until spring its 12 degrees out now to cold for me to be playing in creeks and ponds..... thanks guys!


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

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