# Species of Cichlid??



## Primetime919 (Feb 5, 2015)

Want to know what species of Cichlid these guys are.

His yellow shows well from time to time. Can'd find anything similar to him online.










This guy is pitch black. Not sure what he is either, I cant find anything similar to him online. Not my Socolofi


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

The first one looks like some sort of Otopharynx lithobates, but it's pretty hard to say for sure from that photo. Does it have a few spots on it's sides as well as the bars? If so, I'd probably guess O. lithobates X Sc. fryeri hybrid, or similar.

The second one is most likely a Pseudotropheus crabro (aka Bumblebee) male - they spend more and more time colored solid brown/black as they get older. When it was young, it probably had yellow and black bars.


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## Primetime919 (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks a lot. I think thats the closest I've seen to what he is(O Lithobates).

I think the black guy could be a bumblebee too, he does have some yellow tint if i look closely.

Thanks a lot.


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## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

Does the crabro show black all the time? How long have you had him? How big is he? If he has shown this solid black all the time for a length of time...He is likely extremely stressed. When a crabro is comfortable he will not show this black color constantly.His body and head look strange to me. Not sure this is a pure crabro.


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## Primetime919 (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes he is always black. Actually brought him this color. Never seen him another color honestly.

He is about 3 inches.


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## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

I'm curious how long you have had him. His body syle and head look strange to me...not like ones I have seen before. He might indeed be crabro...but who knows? I have kept crabro and known many others who have kept them. It is not normal behavior for them to show that dark black at a constant. I would either guess you have just added him or you have a hyperdominant fish that intimidates him. He seams stressed out to me.


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## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

If he is crabro...they will grow between 7-9 inches. They can also become very aggressive. I have found them to be much more active at night than most mbuna. Keep an eye on him. They're size and aggressive reputation make them an outkast. I personally like them...they are a cool fish.


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## Primetime919 (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks a lot man, and him and my other fish have been there for about 3 weeks not. Purchased him that color and he has been the same throughout. I just changed my rock structure and now they are just normally hanging under rocks but definitely more active. He does not seem very aggressive as my bigger Red Zebra pretty much runs the tank now.

His temperament is pretty laid back honestly. But his fins are a little nicked up so he may be stressed. How can I prevent this?


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## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

You can't really prevent aggression. You can minimize aggression through selective stocking. How many many fish in the tank? What size is the tank? I would give him some more time to settle in. You have rearranged your rocks...this can help sometimes,especially if the red zebra was there before him.


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## Primetime919 (Feb 5, 2015)

Its a 44 gallon with 9 Cichlids. 3 Jewels that came with the tank that i plan to get rid of. Is this too many? Everybody seems to get along pretty well and i have a ton of filtration that keeps the water clear for the most part.


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## Primetime919 (Feb 5, 2015)

I think i just found out what my blue guy is. Im thinking: Sciaenochromis Fryeri (Electric Blue Ahli) Seen a pic that looks exactly like him at http://www.cichlidstore.com/shop/index. ... 16li38q127


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## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

It will be too small for the stock you have. The crabro is black cause he is stressed by the red zebra and has nowhere to get away. I'm gonna guess the zebra was there first? The crabro will outgrow your tank anyways. If there a male and female in your trio of jewels they will either kill your others when they spawn or die trying.I hope you dont take my observations as overcritical...but you should have researched a little before and not after. I would recommend rehomming everything and starting over with something more manageable in that sized tank. You have some extremely aggressive fish in there and not much space for a subdominant fish to get away from bullies. Most people would tell you your stocking choice wont work even in a 100 gallon tank.


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## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

The blue guy looks to be a fryeri hybrid. Not a pure Electric blue.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

PhinFan1981 said:


> If he has shown this solid black all the time for a length of time...He is likely extremely stressed.





PhinFan1981 said:


> It is not normal behavior for them to show that dark black at a constant.


While it is true that crabro are very chameleon-like for an mbuna, I very much disagree with this assessment!
I have had this fish now for 5 years and am on my third generation. IME, black coloration ( and the darker the black is!), is associated with dominance in the tank and/or aggression. If a male is dominant enough, he will stay black 24/7. 
females and subordinates will often turn black when engaged in conflict or aggression. There are at least 5-6 different color patterns and states in between, but not all are necessarily expressed. The most subordinate state is the juvie pattern.


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## Primetime919 (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh ok thanks a lot. i will definitely figure out something else. The 3 jewels came with the tank which is why i plan to get rid of them. Although there are a lot of hiding places do you think i should still rehome?

Also, the zebra came after the Crabro, but only a couple days after.

The only reason i have so many is because i read that over stocking can reduce aggression toward one another and make them less territorial. Is this not true? I also got most of them (Except the 3 jewels and Fyeri) form the assorted cichlid tanks at my local pet stores, which gave me the thought that these guys could live together.

Thanks a lot guys. Keep feeding me the opinions. Pretty new to this.


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## Primetime919 (Feb 5, 2015)

And i am 95% sure these are all males. Is this an issue?


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## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

BCinUk-in my experience(I have kept Crabro for years as well) I have not had one ever display this pure black at constant unless it were a new addition to the tank...and it would lose this within a couple days. My dominant crabro have always mostly displayed the solid dark brown or the dark barred and brown/yellow pattern. I can assure you the fish seen in the OPs picture I under stress. This crabro is dark black,Thus my point is backed by living proof.


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## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

If your fish are 100% male and no look alikes this is a challenging but successful way to keep mbuna. However it is gonna be extremely challenging to combine the stock you have chosen in a tank of your size. I don't necessarily think you have too many,but species you have chosen are best in a 4' tank minimum.Your best chance of success is gonna be with a single group of dwarf mbuna. Just keep a close eye on your aggression level as I would expect things to blow up in the future...be ready to rehome when needed.


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

As stated, if you end up with a male and female Jewel, you will likely lose some of your other fish.

Overstocking helps, but keeping species in the proper male:female ratios is much more important. Having a single individual of several different species of highly aggressive Mbuna is a recipe for disaster.

What are the dimensions of your tank? 44 gallons is likely too small for the Crabro, and the Fryeri. Could you post the rest of your stock list?


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## Primetime919 (Feb 5, 2015)

Got rid of the Jewels today, gave them to a local pet store. Dimensions of my tank coming soon. Could be a recipe for disaster. Its a corner tank.


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## Primetime919 (Feb 5, 2015)

Ok i have a Red Zebra, the black crabro (still unconfirmed), electric blue ahli, ice blue socolofi, yellow auratus, and a yellow tail acei.

My tanks dimensions are 22x22x24 (44 Gallon Pentagon) Has Natural rocks and a few live plants.


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## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

Auratus too! Yikes.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

A 22" x 22" tank is most definitely not going to work for these fish much longer. A standard, rectangular 40 gallon breeder tank is something like 36" x 18", and although it's not ideal, the length allows submissive fish to get away from more aggressive ones. The floor space of the tank is MUCH more critical when keeping african cichlids than the volume is, which is why a standard 48" long 55 gallon tank is usually the smallest size recommended for keeping africans (especially mbuna).

In your tank, when one of the fish decides it's going to claim some territory (which will happen as they become sexually mature - around 6 months old), there will be nowhere for the other fish to go and they will end up getting killed in short order. The auratus or the crabro (which, by the way, I agree with BC is displaying dominance rather than stress by staying dark) will probably the first one to snap, and they are relentlessly aggressive when defending territory - so much so that they are usually best kept in a 72" long tank.

Bottom line - these fish won't work in your tank. You need to get a different tank or different fish, and you don't have much time left to decide which.


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