# Little help on a big tank



## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

I've been working on my 700 for almost 10 months now, I filled it and had it running for a couple days, put some goldfish in, and the next morning they were dead.

So I have a couple questions.

How long does chlorine need to dissapate? I dont beleive my water has chloramines.
I did not add dechlor, just left the tank a few days.

Second, I had some water on the floor :x found the problem in my filter system (have had a couple problems now)

the bulkhead (all plastic 2" shower drain with a rubber piece that is tighten in with a plastic screw in piece) in one of my prefilters came apart (silicone to rubber gasket and the pvc pipe is fitted in with a rubber bushing with more silcone) does silicone not stick to rubber well, any thoughts?

While I had the shower drain out, I noticed the drain smells funny, could this rubber leach stuff into my tank and kill fish?? I hope not cause my tank bulkheads are the same.

Pretty frustrated right now, after cleaning up water a couple days, and having to drain out a bunch of water.

Any thoughts on what killed the goldfish? How can I seal the show drain properly?

Sorry for the ramble and thanks for the help


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## talon444 (Nov 25, 2008)

I have used silicone with plastics that sounds like similar situation for seals before without issue. Silicone does not stick to a lot of plastics though. In this case it should not really be "holding" anything I would expect it to work....

As for the chlorine it should only take a couple days if you have the pumps running and some aeration. Obviously your tank was not cycled yet, but overnight in a 700 gallon should not have been long enough for big ammonia buildup to kill them.

Were they feeder goldfish I find that death rate is high with them even in good circumstances.

Was there drastic PH or temp difference? Goldfish are hardy to many PH and temps, but an immediate swing could kill them.


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

can you provide more detail on what you made the tank out of? I would suspect that you used plywood and epoxy? If so then you can eliminate the actual tank as a suspect. Could you have used any products that contain mold inhibitors? This could include silicone, plumbing, etc. I would doubt that it would leach into the water fast enough to contaminate 700 gallons to toxic levels overnight though. I would also doubt the rubber on your bulkheads as the culprit as rubber is usually inert. I would test the water for the chlorine and chloramamines just to eliminate that. I would also make sure that the water is well oxygenated. I don't know what the surface area of the tank is , but if you left the water for a couple days with no adjetation, the o2 levels could be too low. That is also a bit doubtful though. If you exhaust all other posibilies, get some more feeders from a different store, the fish could have been on their way out to begin with.

As for fixing the bulkhead, don't use silicone. The supplied gasket is good enough. Put the drain on per the instructions as you would if it were an actual shower. They make them to not leak. If you are still having problems, try to locate the exact spot that the water is coming from. Like around the threads, from between the nut and the tank, through the hole in the tank, etc. This will help eliminate some of the possible causes.


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

The tank is plywood, fibreglass, I beleive it is polyester resin, gelcoat on top, unwaxed I think.
Was told it should be ok.

Tank is not cycled, but no way ammonia built up that fast, no feeding

Ph, not sure I dont test it, the store uses the same tap water I do I would assume.
My tank was about 60 degress, I think the goldfish came from a fair bit warmer (not sure how much) so that could be the problem.

They didnt look wonderful to start with so it could just be bad feeders.

The tank isnt wonderfully oxygenated, has a small sprays at the surface (most of the water returns at the bottom)

all my silicone is GE 100% for windows and doors, No mold inhibitors,

I used a couple pieces of ABS piping in my sump, but I had them in my tank before with no issues.

One more thought, I had some small bits of plastic from drilling my sump, could the fish have eaten these and died?

Thanks


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

If you disect one of the goldfish and look through the gut for blockages caused by plastic chips, you can answer that last question. It certainly is possible for plastic to harm animals that ingest it. Plastic bags are notorious for killing sea turtles that mistake them for jellyfish. It may be exaggerated for political reasons but here is an article warning about plastic dangers to sea life.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/article ... e_1342.cfm


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

I thought of the plastic after I had disposed of the fish, I will make sure I clear that problem before trying again.

I am also going to add some dechlor before I try again, incase there are any heavy metals, or chloramines in the water.

If something else is contaminating the water what can be done? Would a bunch of activated carbon in the filter system help clean the water?


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## Joephish (Oct 28, 2005)

Instead of feeder goldfish, try buying some adults maybe. From what I understand and see, feeders are not the healthiest of fish. I would also be careful of introducing diseases along with the feeders. With as much money as I'm sure you have already spent on this operation, getting some healthier fish doesn't sound like a large investment. I'm guessing that you are choosing goldfish because of their ability to tolerate cold water. I also think that adding some decholrinator is a good idea. Don't know what everyone else uses, but I'm a big fan of Cholr-Am-X.


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

Adult golfish? There dont seem to be many large goldfish for sale around here. yes I chos goldfish because they are coldwater

I have some concerns using feeders (disease and all) but figure that is a better alternative to expensive "test" fish, what else is coldwater and commonly available? Should I just buy a non feeder goldfish?

I think I will fix everything I can think of any try a goldfish again, at the end of the week.

Any thoughts on the carbon? or some other way to remove mystery pollutants (hmm maybe rig up a couple water fiter filters into the system to remove small particles whatnots and stuff)


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## Joephish (Oct 28, 2005)

Carbon is a good filter for cleaning up water, but with a tank that big, you'll use up a lot of carbon on water changes.
Have you been able to keep fish alive in your tap water before?
If you have an extra tank around, maybe you could get the goldfish (adult or not, just not a feeder) and let him live in the tank for a few days. They don't need filtration set up. Just a lid to make sure they don't jump. This will test any acclimation problems as far as water parameters and temperature go. One or two fish in the big tank shouldn't run into cycling problems, and you can see if they make it.
What are you planning on putting in there when you do have it all tested?
Oh, and we like pics, please opcorn:


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

I dont plan on use carbon regularly, just to clean the water initially.

No spare tanks, but I have a rubbermaid I can setup, keep the goldfish in there for a day or two, make sure he is ok temperature wise and not a "bad" fish, I think I will do that.

Here is a shot of the tank, in the wall, drywall work to be done yet.
The water goes about a foot below the glass, and 8 or so inches above


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## jontwhale (Mar 20, 2006)

looks good! wish I had the room.... good luck diagnosing your problem!


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## tropills (Mar 25, 2008)

when you said gel coat I'm concerned. was this the marine (boat) gel coat ? if so it will release toxins into the water. it is NOT fish safe. and you will need to sand it off and re coat with a potable water safe epoxy.


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

I think it was marine gelcoat, I was told by the people at the place I bought it from (they specialize in this kind of stuff) that it was potable water safe. They said that the unwaxed was ok, the waxed to avoid I thnk.

I will find out what brand I used, and maybe go talk to them. With the $$ I spent, they will be hearing an earful from me if it's not safe.

I will post back soon, with the brand, if anyone can help


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

It was Industrial Paints and Plastics brand, here is a link to the msds

http://www.ippnet.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=12

Doesnt say anything about after curing though.


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## tropills (Mar 25, 2008)

Sorry man but that stuff in no good for fish systems even after it cures. it will still release toxins into your system. you need somthing that is safe for potable water (safe for humans) gel coat is not safe.  they sell epoxy that's safe and has the same propertys as gel coat but has way less toxins ,thus it's safe for fish and humans.


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

Im not even sure there is a word to describe what Im feeling right now.

Utter defeat.

If it turns out there is no easy fix, this probably ends my dreams of a big tank, and soo close.
I cant move the tank from where it is, there is a hole in the wall so I cant do epoxy work in the tank room, besides, I would have to remove the bulkheads, all the silicone from the corners, maybe the glass? I just dont have it in me, and I dont think I can justify the added expense.

Kick in the rear I just paid for my heaters and controller.

Who knows maybe it'll work out, maybe I can convince the company that sold me the wrong stuff to give me some of the right stuff. Wish me luck.

Thanks for the help tropills, even if it wasnt what I wanted to hear, better than killing my fish.


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## tropills (Mar 25, 2008)

you might be able to remove the bulkheads, and just sand the inside, tape off the glass edge and apply the epoxy, or they make a liquid pond liner. the fish guy. just used it on his 800 gallon expansion build. that may be a option for you. I feel your pain but at least you found out now then after putting in 600 dollars worth of fish.


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

they sell system west epoxy at the place I got my other stuff from.
But if they arent willing to do anything for me, I'm not going to buy it there anyway.

Yes all of the work is doable, silicone remover will take off the silicone but leave the fibreglass unharmed, The hard part would be the windows, the silicone overlaps onto the fiberglass,
but I've already spent more than double what I planned on this project.

How is the smell of the systems west epoxy or the pond armor?
Can they go right on top of gelcoat?

And let this be a lesson to everyone as well, not only dont use gelcoat but,

GET THE TANK THEN THE FISH!!

I have fish that when full grown wont fit in what I have, and this obviously wont be ready soon if at all. Now I have to figure out what to do with the fish as well.

The chinese use the same word for crisis and opportunity, good ole crisitunity


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## tropills (Mar 25, 2008)

I have never used the pond armor but the system west is about half the smell of gel coat.
it's kinda like silicone but not quite the nose bite. :lol: as for application you should just be able to rough up the existing gel with sand paper and then clean the surface free of dust then apply the new epoxy. I hope they work with you,your system will be great when you get over this last bump in the road. :thumb:


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

Well I figured out wha the problem was with the showerdrain bulkheads, 
I jacked the tank up on one side to level it out, doing so I moved the height of the prefilter and pulled the piping loose, so no failuire with the system, just failure to think fully on my part  .

Which is good news, means I just have to redo that part, doesnt solve the other problem.
but one less problem is good :dancing: .


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

Had a buddy of mine come back into town (he is as excited about the tank as I am)
he grabbed me anothe couple goldies to try out (4 tiny fish)

They went in the tank yesterday arond 5pm, at 10 am today, at least 3 are still alive (they might all be alive, but could be hiding)

I have removed the plastic bits, I left the water sit for a week to dechlor, the filter system isnt running (not fixed, but it will help eliminate this as the problem.)

well tropills, I dont want to be a jerkm, but I sure hope I get to tell you YOUR WRONG!!
not holding my breath, only time will tell.


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

Ok, so I talked to the guy at the store I bought the resin from, he said it is potable water safe, when it has cured for at least 48 hours. Mine was left for months.

Tropills, is that is just not safe for fish? (It is safe for humans) but I know we drink chlorine in our water that kills fish too.


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## tropills (Mar 25, 2008)

Hey no hurt feelings here :thumb: I've worked in the marine industry for 15 years and have never seen GEL coat that was potable water safe. I've seen epoxy and used it but never Gel coat. Hope all works out. and like I said I hope I am wrong. first time for everything. :lol:


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## SupeDM (Jan 26, 2009)

I tink that you mat be able to seal over this stuff. Just rough it up lightly with sandpaper and put a couple coats of krylon fusion over it all. The paint should seal in the gel coat. Just make sure to cover up the glass so no overspray gets on it. If need be you can rent a respirator at most DIY rental stores. As the fumes from the spray paint will be bad in the enclosed space.
I am not 100% sure of this but I have sealed things in this way before. I had a area in my home where there needed to be Green treated lumber. This was when it all had arsenic in it. The building inspector told me that as long as I used several coats of paint that it would seal it in and not cause problems.


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## Joephish (Oct 28, 2005)

Are the three fish still alive?? I'm hoping that the first one choked on plastic.


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

All four are still alive, been about 31 hours now, and these guys arent even an inch, and 18 cents at the Dubmart, I didnt have a ton of hope for them, but now they have given me hope for my tank.


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

Well all four gold fish are still alive.
So I think my tank must be ok :dancing:

I have not restarted the filters yet, hopefully they werent the problem.


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## travis2k (Apr 23, 2008)

Well, It's been about three weeks, Goldfish have never made me happier.

All for are alive and well, I added another 4 a couple days ago.
The Filters are running, and all seems well.

 Thanks for the help, and a place to vent


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## imusuallyuseless (Dec 28, 2005)

Sweet :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish:


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