# using sump with undergravel filter?



## woj17 (Dec 1, 2008)

good idea? bad idea?

i am switching from a 55 gallon, hang on filter system to an 80 gallon tank with a sump. the main goal in this is to get my fish in a better environment. my oscar has hole-inthehead, all the other fish are fine (convict, JD, green terror). 
how much benefit will having the undergravel filter really be? i got all this stuff from my uncle, who is reallypushing me to use the undergravel filter along with the sump. i have always been leery of undergravel filters cause you have to break down the whole tank to clean under it.
but i am wondering if i can get away with using one plate of the undergravel in the middle of the tank, and when it comes time to clean under it, unhook it, move all the gravel and decorations to one side, pull out the undergravel, clean it, scrub, then put it back, move the gravel and decorations back and done.
my uncle seems to think this is the way to go, since the undergravel will take the dirt from the bottom, shoot it back up to the sump drain, and will be awesome. thoughts?
hopefully this, along with a better diet for the oscar and no active carbon cures it. i'm hoping to avoid medication, but probably will have to use it again (tried once), as he is getting in later stages of HITH. thanks


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Under-gravel filters can become a big pain in the *** to "properly maintain" & IMO they arn't necessary...To have one or not is a debatable question, you'll find MANY arguments on the subject, i'd suggest searching the forums & reading the plethora of opinions from members on it as it's been widely discussed...Vacuuming the tank & the filtration options (apart from scheduled water changes) out there are more then enough...

Can i ask what kind of medications you've used for the hole in the head disease? & possible upload a pic of the fish...


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

If keeping the under gravel filter, set it up for reverse flow. Otherwise, I'd get it out of there. Reverse flow is the only way I'd use an undergravel filter, and then only if it was already in place. I wouldn't go out and add one to a system with a sump. I see little advantage and potential problems. You can achieve circulation to kick stuff up with small water pumps.

If you're battling HTH, then I'd remove it completely because even with reverse flow, it can trap some debris. Use minimum gravel and vacuum it religously while doing large water changes. That's the plan I'd go with. Keep the organics as low in the system as you can. An undergravel filter works against that.

Just my .02


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## rarefaction (Aug 6, 2009)

Just another anti UGF vote... A small powerhead would do a much better job at creating circulation to your sump drain from lower levels without trapping organics. Plus who wants all that bubbling, noisy junk cluttering up tank space? Hide everything you can in that sump! 8)


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## woj17 (Dec 1, 2008)

i have some pictures im trying to send but cant figure out how to upload them here. sorry.
i cant remember the name of the medication i used. i got it at pet smart, sooo, i dont know what that means but...even the guy who sold it to me said it wasnt what he'd recommend, because they were sold out of what he would use. the thing is, i probably know what has caused it, but now i need to cure it. i have read that the sump is as good of filtration system that there is, so im hoping that will work. however, im afraid to start dumping chemicals in it. *** never had a sytsem like this before and want tokeep it as simple as possible while im learning about this thing. and i dont want to mess up the other 3 fish who are doing great. also, everyone says that when transfering tanks and fish, that the rocks and plants and gravel will provide me the good bacteria i need in the new water, but is it carrying harmful stuff that is worsening the oscars condition? i wont be tranfering the hang on filters, and i guess that is carrying the good bacteria, so im thinking of putting the catridge from the old filter in the last chamber of the sump to spread it. but again, will that help, hurt, or do nothing?
im worried about the condition of the new water in the 80 gallon. im going to let the new water filter through the sump and tank for a day, then slowly add rocks, gravel, plants (and maybe a filter pad in the sump?)over the next day, then the fish the next day. *** got about 3 days to make this transfer. i just dont have the space to stretch it out longer than that. i'm also add the appropriate amount of water conditioner before i put the fish in. should i do this right away, the second day, or right before i put the fish in the third day. this is a concern cause maybe *** been over using the conditioner when i do ater changes and that has worsened the oscar. again, the simpler, the better for me. its hard enough to transfer a tank as it is, let alon etrying to do it with a sick fish and trying to cure it. ugh. thanks


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

As far as biofiltration goes, it sound like you're on the right track. Transfer as much as you can over to the new tank to 'seed' it. I wouldn't worry about transferring any 'bugs' or whatever may be affecting the oscar, as it's not affecting the others. I'd also avoid medicating during this time. Get them into a new environment that's kept in top condition via water changes and vacuumings, and leave out the UGF. See if the oscar improves. I certainly wouldn't start dumping in a med that happened to be all the guy at the store had. You might want to search the forum for HTH disease or post this up in the illness section. There's also an oscar section you could try. Any med you add could negatively affect the biofiltration while doing nothing for the disease and could lead you into a bad situation. So, don't be in a rush to medicate. Isolating the oscar in his own tank during treatment might also be a good idea. But, find out what experienced keepers have done to deal with this disease.

Decided to research this a bit and found some stuff.

Here's a link that supports what I was saying. If it's not an extreme case yet, then I'd get them into the new tank and start providing excellent maintenance and care and see how it goes. Metro has been recommended in the article. If he is eating, then you can try metro soaked food. Get the metro powder and a good quality pellet food like NLS. No risk to the biofilter by doing this.

And read this article.

From the site:
_
2. We think Hole in the Head ... 
*is the result of poor water quality over a long period of time*. It's best to prevent Hole in the Head by doing the proper maintenance schedule. _

_3. Hole in the Head often occurs ... 
*in aquariums with under-gravel filters*, and sometimes in aquariums with canister filters, but rarely in aquariums with a BIO-Wheel filters. _

Read the rest of that site. Seems like pretty good info. They recommend biowheel filters, but your sump will be just as good, even better. Go with that alone. :thumb: Drop the UGF, literally. Break it so no one can temp you to use it.


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