# sulfer head?



## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

I got 2 new additions from my lfs. The first one was labeled sulfur head in the tank but on the receipt he put ivory head. The second peacock was labeled ruby red but looks like a red shoulder to me. The red shoulders were in the same tank as with a divider. I am thinking this red shoulder just jumped over to the ruby side.

1) was labeled sulfur head




2) was in labeled ruby red but I am thinking red shoulder


Thanks for the help


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## Schticky Schnauzer (Aug 2, 2013)

I would say they are both hybrids. The first looks like a peacock/hap hybrid. Peacocks don't really get spots on the side like that, especially running across the bars. The second looks a little better, but the body is very elongated, and the tail has some strange color at the edges that combined with the body length, say mbuna/peacock hybrid to me.


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

Schticky Schnauzer said:


> I would say they are both hybrids. The first looks like a peacock/hap hybrid. Peacocks don't really get spots on the side like that, especially running across the bars. The second looks a little better, but the body is very elongated, and the tail has some strange color at the edges that combined with the body length, say mbuna/peacock hybrid to me.


I don't agree. After doing some research and googling photos I am 90% sure #1 is a juvenile male Protomelas spilonotus Mara Rocks. He was labeled a sulfur head on the tank I think he just mixed up the name on the receipt. #2 could be a hybrid but the store I get bought this from is pretty reputable and I know the breeder where they get their stock from. Their saltwater guy had to get my fish today as they were really busy. Next time I will wait for the freshwater guy that knows his cichlids.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

The Spilonotus Mara Rocks may well be sold under the name "Sulfur Head". The fish does seem to look like a juvenile of such, but I'm not real familiar with those to be certain.

The problem with the line bred "Red Peacocks" or even the "Red Shoulder" is that they are rather bastardized. What exactly is a "pure" Ruby or German Red is not well defined, and different sources look different. The "Red Shoulder" is often rather generic that has been crudely bred for decades. I guess you could ask and see what they ordered if it is a good store.


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## kendallikeeper (Jan 28, 2013)

spilonotus do not color up until 4 or 5 inches sometimes even longer. this looks like the hybrid going around the hobby known as a sulfur head. speculation is that its a cross between an ahli and red empress or z. rock lithobates


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

kendallikeeper said:


> spilonotus do not color up until 4 or 5 inches sometimes even longer.


I breed the mara rocks, and depending on their tank mates they can start getting color as small as 2" i.e. the dominant 2 or 3 males in a grow-out tank. The fish in the pics looks like a juvenile "mara rock". As far as the peacock goes, it does not look like a ruby red to me, it looks more like a red shoulder as you're guessing, but the red peacock lines are pretty jumbled and there's a great deal of variation in coloration.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

if the first one was the dominant male in his tank, he could color up early like that. Was he basically the only male with much color in the tank?


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

noki said:


> if the first one was the dominant male in his tank, he could color up early like that. Was he basically the only male with much color in the tank?


yes he was the dominate fish in the tank that I bought him out of. There were 4 fish total in the tank including him. 2 females and another male with not much color that he was pushing around.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

I'd like to see some more pictures of fish two.

Fish one is not a spilonotus and is in fact a hybrid as has been suggested. Most likely an aulonocara cross, you can tell by the profile of the face and the patterning in the tail which Spilonotus do not possess. I currently keep mara rocks spilonotus and my males didn't start showing color until almost 5". Most large haps take a lot longer than smaller ones.


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

Chester B said:


> I'd like to see some more pictures of fish two.
> 
> Fish one is not a spilonotus and is in fact a hybrid as has been suggested. Most likely an aulonocara cross, you can tell by the profile of the face and the patterning in the tail which Spilonotus do not possess. I currently keep mara rocks spilonotus and my males didn't start showing color until almost 5". Most large haps take a lot longer than smaller ones.


I will try to get some more pictures of fish two.

If fish one is a hybrid then the lfs that sold it to me just lost my business.... I went back and asked him if they were hybrids and he swore they were not. I will let the fish mature a bit more before I make a final determination.

I normally buy all my fish online so I know what I am getting. Here in Phoenix we have very few lfs that have any decent Cichlid stock so I was trying to give my business to this guy to support someone local. I don't mind buying a hybrid fish when its labeled a hybrid or take a risk from a assorted or mixed tank but when you are told its something its not then that's just bad business ethics...


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## Eugooglizer (Oct 30, 2012)

I have raised a few Mara Rocks haps myself and they looked nothing like yours as juveniles. They did not color up until over 5 inches. The fish in question doesn't even look like a hap to me at all, although it does not really look like a peacock either. That is likely why people are suggesting a hap/peacock hybrid of some sort.


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

I called the fish store again now he is telling me Copadichromis sp. "Mloto Undu" ivory head so I really don't know what to say. He is only 2 inches inches so I will see what he looks like when he grows out a bit.


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## timbo6684 (Aug 29, 2010)

Hapguy63 I sent you a pm...


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## mbunainflames (Oct 27, 2012)

Have to be careful when buying locally here in AZ. A lot of hybrids going around being sold as legitimate fish. I'm curious as to the LFS you bought the fish from since I live in Phx as well.


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## miDnIghtEr20C (Aug 13, 2013)

I have the same Red Shoulder as you do. Not sure what it is exactly also.










Thought it was something similar to... http://kgtropicals.com/shop/article_100 ... 009.001%26


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

miDnIghtEr20C said:
 

> I have the same Red Shoulder as you do. Not sure what it is exactly also.
> Thought it was something similar to... http://kgtropicals.com/shop/article_100 ... 009.001%26


I am pretty sure mine is a Red Shoulder as well. I currently have a much larger Chiloelo Red Shoulder in my tank and they look pretty close except the color on my larger one is much more vivid and brighter. This new guy is around 2" in size so I am thinking he will color up more as he grows out.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Hapguy63 said:


> miDnIghtEr20C said:
> 
> 
> > I have the same Red Shoulder as you do. Not sure what it is exactly also.
> ...


It is normal for the more dominant male to show more color. As with most Malawi cichlds.

The Red Shoulder Peacock has long been common, often mass produced with low standards, and the location point is usually unknown. You can't get any more specific then a generic "Red Shoulder"


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