# My first major issue...



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

On 8/29 I removed a Labidochromis Caeruleus from my mixed mbuna 125 gallon. This particular fish has been slow growing, compared to his tankmates, and generally gets out competed for food. I will refer to the fish as 'he', although I don't know the sex. He began to show early signs of what looked like a sunken belly. There is another yellow lab very similar in size that appears normal, but has the same issues with food competition. The day after I noticed this, I removed him and put him in a 10 gallon hospital tank. I fed exclusively NLS, to monitor the color and consistency of his feces. At first, he appeared to put on weight, but now over 2 weeks later it doesn't appear so. He is a very energetic little guy, and eats with much enthusiasm. I had not noticed anything wrong, other than his weight, until 2 days ago. He had a 'turd' that was normal looking half way, but then white and stringy, on the other half. I know this is not good.

Back to the main tank... None of my other mbuna have shown symptoms of the small yellow lab mentioned above. I feed 80% NLS cichlid formula, and substitute a veggie flake. The reason I even use the flake, is because I feel it gives some of the smaller fish a chance at nabbing more food. Yesterday, one of my other labs had a white, stringey turd trailing behind him. I am very concerned. This fish is very active, eats like a pig and appears to be the dominant lab in the tank. I had fed a veggie flake recently, which is a whitish color, but the consistency of this feces doesn't look right at all.

I have not medicated at all, but I feel I need to do something. I have read a lot of posts on here referring to sunken belly and bloat, but want to 'display my case' and get all the info out there. Anyways, most of these posts are never followed up on. I have not lost any fish during my short cichlid career, and would not want to start now.

I feed 1-2 times per day. Pellets never hit the floor of the tank. About 20 seconds and it's all over. I occasionally miss a day on purpose, or stagger a morning feed, followed by an evening feed the next day. I don't feel that I am overfeeding. I watch these fish very closely.

I did something ill-advised in July, and added 3 wild caught bristle nosed plecos. I did not quarantine. I have considered this as my problem of a parasite introduction. My fish are active, beautiful, out and about(no one hiding in the corners) and 2 species breeding on a regular basis. They are all young fish, added throughout May of 2012.

Thanks for reading my long post. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

It is possible that the bushy nose could have introduced something into the tank. But you can also get bloat or sunken belly in an otherwise healthy tank. White stringy poop is a bad sign but from what I have seen it can come and go.

As a first treatment I would say use some salt. Regular salt and some epsolm salt for you skinny or sick fish, once separated. I would treat the main tank with regular salt with 1 tbl spoon per 5g. You should treat for 7 days. Follow that up with 50% water changes every other day for another week. Once you are done treating with salt it is very important to remove the salt, long term exposure is detrimental to fish.

The epsolm salt will help flush the bowels of the sick fish. I have treated fish before that will blown up and had very good results. With skinny fish you want to make sure to keep feeding them and remove any extra food. After week I would change out the water to get it fresh again and watch them for another week to make sure they are eating and gaining weight. If they stop eating or continue to worsen you may need to try metro or prazi, but salt is a great cheap and effective treatment to start with.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks dre.

From what you've suggested:
Treat main tank _everyday_ with regular salt for 1 week?
Large water changes every other day once done treating to remove salt?
How much epsom and regular salt per gallon for my hospital tank/skinny fish?

This sounds relatively easy, and can get started tonight.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

I would only treat the main tank once with salt. salt does not evaporate and you do not want to continue to add more salt.

The hospital tank i would use 1tsp per 1g of epsolm salt ONLY. Regular salt in the main tank just to be safe.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Excellent. Allow the salt to do its job for 1 week, then proceed to remove it with a series of water changes.

Thanks again.


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

Keep a very close eye on your main tank for the next while. If you see increasing white stringy poop and fish beginning to spit their food, then you will need to act fast on the main tank. Sometimes you need to follow your gut based on how your fish are behaving. If you think there is a problem, you will have better success treating with medicated foods while the fish are still eating.

Every time i gambled on introducing fish without quarantine I have always paid the price.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks Mud.

I do keep a close eye. Sit in front of the tank and listen to tunes, so I can enjoy and 'keep up' with everything. Question on quarantine: how would one identify a possible parasite issue with fish such as plecos? Just curious.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

there are a lot of parasites. you have external ones and internal ones. signs you want to look for would be in the fishes behavior. Clamped fins, lethargy, weak appetite, flashing, and otherwise different behavior. Heavy breathing is another big sign. You can have stuff like flukes, anchor worms, fish lice, heximita, ich, tapeworms, and even TB. Without a microscope and slide it is really hard to tell with some of them.

If you keep an eye on your fish you will know when something is wrong. Then come to the library here and do some research. And remember to keep cool, you can loose your cool and go overboard with treatments. There are a few times that when you notice a fish is acting weird it is already to late to save them, and you go crazy trying to.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Update:

After feeding this morning, I noticed 2 more fish in the main tank with white stringey poop. I need to act fast. I did not add any salt last night, due to work. I want to jump on this. I think at this point I need to treat with medication. I don't care how much it costs.

Thoughts on moving forward? Steps to take? I will be referencing the bloat articles(which I've read) but would like any feedback. Still no signs of major aggression, hiding, sunken bellies, bloated fish, eye problems, etc in the main tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Metronidazole, order online for overnight delivery. PM me for a cost-effective vendor.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Update: Started treating with Metro. Have seen no white feces since Saturday and all fish are eating.

I've noticed that most of these type of posts 'leave you hanging' and are not followed up by the OP. I will post back once treatment is finished, or any problems arise.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Still treating as planned and all fish are feeding. Saw a lab. caeruleus with some white 'thready' feces hanging out today, one that I have not seen with this symptom before.

Not sure what to expect from this treatment. Any thoughts?
'


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## Danni (Aug 17, 2012)

Keep treating- Metro is pretty safe- you can even double dose it. 
I use the powder which I think is 1 tsp for 164 gallons.
What I did when I saw this happening in my African tank is treat for 7 days- twice a day with every day water changes. 
The fish were all eating after 5 but I did two extra days.
You want to dose the Metro in the morning, wait 8 hours dose again. Next morning- change water I did 20% but you can do more than that if you want- then dose twice again with 8 hours in between with every day water changes. 
I did this for bloat on a couple of fish and it worked great. 
Once I got the bloat- I took down my NLS feeding. I'm not even positive it was the food but I have been fine since. I just feed Omega Super Veggie and NLS every other day- for about 20 seconds. 
Keep up with the Metro it really didn't seem to stress my fish at all.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks. Dosing every 12 hrs, with 60-70% WC everyday, in the morning. Business as usual in the tank. Bunch of food hungry, horny jerks. Guess that's mbuna for ya... Not too sure on bloat, but just taking the precaution steps.

Chicago burbs? Are you going to the fish show on the 30th?


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## Danni (Aug 17, 2012)

The GCCA one? Yep- I never miss them!  I need to sort out my African tank so I'm hoping there are some good fish there. I also wanted to check out some Discus for another tank.
Good thing your tank came around- Metro always seems to do it! Nice work!!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

So after treatment I have not noticed any issues in the main tank. But the original fish that I separated has not begun to gain any mass and still has a sunken stomach. He eats like a pig. Thoughts?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

bump


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Can you post a pic? If it's so sunken as to be a threat to health, run through the other parasite treatments. Maybe PraziPro next?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I'll try for a picture. Thanks for replying.


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm going through the same issue as you. Been a few months and still can't get rid of their sunken bellies. Just went through treating with PraziPro and it didn't have an effect on the bellies. Have tried Metro (two different times), Jungle anti-parasite guard, food treated with metro, prazipro. I'm at a lost. I'm thinking of treating with maracyn and maracyn 2 next.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

That sucks. I only have it occurring to one isolated fish.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Iggy might have a different parasite than toyster has. Still need to run through the parasite meds. PraziPro is well respected.

Maracyn and Maracyn2 are more in the line of antibiotics and I'm not sure they would be ideal for a parasite infestation.

toyster, the first three meds contain metro...so you have tried metro and PraziPro so far. I don't have experience with parasites (except bloat) so I'm not the best advisor once you get beyond PraziPro...but I'd stick to meds designed to treat parasites if the only symptom is sunken belly.


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

Thank you for the advice DJ.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

after reading these post over again it may seem that if it is just a couple of fish not gaining weight then they may not be eating much during feeding time. some of the more aggressive fish may be eating most of the food before the other can eat. I notice this with my more aggressive fish in crowded tanks.

They then get weak, stressed and sick. Watch the particular fish to make sure they are eating.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

The one I have with a sunken belly is separated from the main tank, so he gets plenty of food.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

Then the next step would be prazipro. The other types of internal parasites would be treated with praziquantel. Prazipro makes using prazi very easy and effective.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Continued here...

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=251289


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