# Magdrive 9.5 question-Not the normal



## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

I recently changed out the pump in my wet dry to a magdrive 9.5 and have noticed that my tank has been running hot. Its in a dual overflow reef ready marineland 125. I have the heater and temperature sensor in the wet dry as well. My water temp is constantly 82 and my heater is set at like 75-76. I do have tight fitting lids on the tank itself and my lights are sitting on top of them currently but they honestly dont ever get hot enough to even make them feel hot to the touch so I don't believe that they are the cause. Anyways the temps were never like this when I had my other return pump in there. There is not a cover over the pump side of the wet dry and the stand is sitting open without doors on it yet. Does anyone have the same experience with the magdrives? I love the flow and very quiet operation but I am sticking an all male tank and would rather not have the temp that high for aggression's sake.


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

I don't think 82 is anything to be worried about myself, my tank runs about 85 summer time, sometimes up to 87. the heat doesn't seem to make them any more aggressive, but every tank is different.

The mag drive can be mounted externally which would lessen the heat transfer to the water. What is the temperature of the room the tank is in? I usually prop my canopy open a few inches which lets heat escape and also causes a little more evaporation.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I would verify that your thermometer is accurate, if it is, I would turn off the heater and monitor the tank temperature. It is possible that the pump is generating the heat but you need to verify the accuracy of the thermometer first.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Sorry, a little background on me, I run a test lab as my career. I calibrate equipment as a norm and this is the same thermometer moving from tank to tank as well as two others. If I get a new one, I put it in with another one for comparison purposes and have thrown out new ones because of reading about four degrees off. I could put a thermocouple in the tank and get it to within a tenth but that's not the point in question. The tank is definitely running four degrees warmer than a tank three feet from it. Being a reef ready tank with the noise of the overflows and the tank located in my bedroom, leaving the glass lids open is not an option. The room never gets above 74 degrees and there are five other tanks in very close proximity that never go above 78-79. I have monitored the heater controller to see I if it is coming on and it only ever comes on after a water change occasionally. I will unplug the heater today at 4 and check it again before I go to bed and also tomorrow am. I am very confident that its coming from the mag drive. It is running into a piece of 1" ID flexible hose vertically for about 16 inches and then Teed into two inch and a quarter lines to each overflow return. There is no ball valve or anything throttling back the pump. When I was running everything else identical with my quiet one 4000 I never had this issue. Please don't take anything in this response as me acting cocky or like a ********, I'm fairly thorough in knowing how my equipment is doing and working through problems. That's why I can very confidently say that it's not the thermometer and that I will just to eliminate a variable, unplug the heater. One thing that might skew this today though is that its only in the sixties here so ambient conditions in the room will be cooler than anytime in the last three months. Thanks for your thoughts and diagnostic input. I will note my findings tomorrow.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

No offense taken. It is just one of the questions I ask due to the common use of cheap thermometers.

I see that the Mag 9.5 is a higher wattage than the Quietone 4000 so I would assume it generates more 'heat' during operation, unless I am way off base. Would it be an option to run the pump out of the water to see if that eliminates the heat gain in your setup?


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Deeda said:


> No offense taken. It is just one of the questions I ask due to the common use of cheap thermometers.
> 
> I see that the Mag 9.5 is a higher wattage than the Quietone 4000 so I would assume it generates more 'heat' during operation, unless I am way off base. Would it be an option to run the pump out of the water to see if that eliminates the heat gain in your setup?


In answer to that question and along with that logic, here is the reply that I got from my inquiry to Danner.

Whether used in-line or submersed the mag-drive pump is designed to dissipate the heat produced by the unit by releasing it to the water that passes through the pump. In other words, running the pump continuously is like running a 90 watt heater continuously.

That being said, I will still do the heater test, but likely will have my assumption verified that its just the larger pump causing the water heating. I am either building a larger wet dry/sump/refugium which will make more water for that pump to heat and I could kick the AC down a couple degrees more to combat it. I just was wondering on people's experience with these pumps and ever having noticed similar conditions.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

It does make sense and I'm glad you got a quick response from Danner.

I have heard similar experiences on forums with regards to the heat gain from pumps but can't remember any of the solutions off hand. Increase agitation of the water surface may help but will also increase the evaporation and 'noise' generated and the glass lids will still hold a lot of the heat in the tank.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm considering seeing if I can somehow get a 55 into my stand to use as a wet dry/sump combo leaving a good bit of open water and possibly a quiet fan blowing across the sump. Obviously I will have evap issues with that idea though. I guess that I need to do the math for the acrylic that I cut as far as volume as well as surface area to decide what might suit my needs for this issue, a 55 or the acrylic sump. My current wet dry doesn't have a whole lot of volume, so this was on my to do list anyways.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Ok, so I unplugged the heater yesterday at four and the temperature in the tank was 82 degrees. At ten pm, it was just slightly higher but not a full degree. This morning at 715am it is 83. My lights run from about noon to 915pm. The AC was set the same, fan in my room same speed and direction, and actually the outside temperature was a brisk 48 when I left this morning compared to the high sixties. If I was being a little more thorough, I have a small humidity and temperature sensor/data logger that I should have started and let run during the little experiment to monitor ambient room conditions. So I have come to this conclusion, after factoring in that the manufacturer and other people's similar findings per Dee, and also the fact that I'm running a FX5 as well, that there is another possible con to "overfiltration," besides a lot of current which depending on your stocklist could be good or bad, and that is the heat dissipated to the water. When I decide to make my larger sump, I will update this if I can make any appreciable impact on the retained heat in the system. As it sits though, I don't think that I need to worry much about my heater giving up the ghost unless it just locks on. I will definitely take this into consideration when it comes to the eight foot tank planning when we find our house and start modifying to suit our preferences. 

Thanks for your input Deeda


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the update and you are welcome.

I don't think it is very often that many aquarists take into account the heat generating equipment, besides the heater, on their aquariums unless they run into a problem similar to what you experienced. Some lighting fixtures, glass lids, un-vented full wooden canopies, pumps, filters, even flow restrictions in the plumbing system can all contribute to heat gain.

The same goes for the heat loss. No lids, open top sumps, ambient room temperature, tank placement in drafty areas are some thoughts that come to mind.

I've noticed on my 220G tank that I am able to maintain +78°F with one Hydor ETH 300 heater which according to the mfg. specs is rated for up to an 80G tank. I am also using an Eheim 2262 (80W) and a 2260 (65W) plus I have tight fitting glass canopies on the tank. I'm sure the filter pumps are adding additional heat to reduce the amount of time the heater is actually on. I also think that once the aquarium comes up to temperature, any cooling is minimal unless there is a loss of power for an extended period of time. I offer this info as just a side observation in the discussion and don't mean to derail your thread.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

No derailing at all. I much prefer to read whole related findings and experiences from a similar standpoint. Your points may have been tangents, but tangents are still connected to the same source.  I'm continuing to learn with this and I too am only running a 300 watt heater in my 125s wet dry, with obviously no issue at all of keeping the tank at a stable temp, albeit a touch warmer than I would like it to be. I may try running the pump external but am concerned about noise or the bulkhead loosening from vibration and causing a leak or anything of that nature. Even though the pump is cooled by the water primarily, it has to lose even a little heat from the air around it. Then again, the pump may run even warmer since the air would be a less efficient way of conducting heat away from the pump. These are the types of experiments that I enjoy proving out to myself. Sometimes the expected result and the actual can be quite the opposite.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

You did mention that the pump outlet is connected to 1" flex hose, maybe you can temporarily suspend the pump in mid air (above the sump cavity) and add another short piece of flex hose to the intake. Just a thought if you wanted to try a little experiment.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

I may just do that this weekend Dee. I'm wondering if the pump is noisy at all when not submersed as this is in my bedroom. I sleeps with da fishes.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

I could be wrong on this but I swore that it said somewhere that the pump had to be lower than the water level. As in it won't create a vacuum to pull water up.


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

k7gixxerguy said:


> I could be wrong on this but I swore that it said somewhere that the pump had to be lower than the water level. As in it won't create a vacuum to pull water up.


This is correct. The pump is only a spinning impeller, it must be filled with water to pump.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Yes you are right about the pump inlet needing to be filled, I don't know what I was thinking. Besides, the heat will still be dissipated to the water even if this particular pump was to be run out of the water, example, outside the sump but connected via a bulkhead fitting (flooded inlet).


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm still thinking that I could possibly try it external to the sump and have a fan mounted right beside it, that way I'm not causing any more evaporation but possibly shedding a little bit of the heat produced by the pump. The response from Danner didn't seem to promising that this would help at all but you never know until you try right.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

One other thing to try might be adding much cooler water on your next change to get the temp down into the 70's. As Deeda noted in a post above, once the tank is up to temp, there is a large thermal mass and temperature changes take a lot of energy. I've noticed this unfortunately during recent power outages. Perhaps starting off lower will do the trick?

FWIW - both my 125 and 180 are driven by larger Mag pumps, and I don't have the issue of the tank over heating. You might just have an inefficient model, it may be worth buying another (assuming you like it) and install it. The extra one would be good insurance, or could be used for water changes, etc.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Nodima, are you running them both submersed on your 125 and your 180? How tight fitting are your lids and is your sump covered or open? Are you running any other filtration or pumps in either tank? I left the heater unplugged until last night and it topped out at 83 degrees. I can't really throw another pump at it at the moment to see if it is just this pump getting warmer than another of the same model. I'm picking up more fish this evening and then maybe over the weekend I can try it plumbed externally. I still have to catch the last 4 demasoni juvies that hid well in my 3d background cracks the other night. That will make a total of 45, lol.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

For some reason, an earlier reply did not survive.

Both my MagDrives are submerged. Both tanks have tight lids, but the sump under my 125 is open, while the sump under the 180 is only 1/3 open. The 125 also has an Eheim 2128 running on it. I lose about 3 gal per week with the 125 and next to nothing in the 180.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks, what temp are the tanks at and what is the ambient room temp roughly? I lose probably 2-3 gallons a week as well from the open side of my wet dry.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Tanks run ~80, room varies from low 60's in winter to almost 80 in summer, it is a finished walkout basement and I'm in Mass.


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