# Shaking Blue Johanni??? and Johannia/Maingano talk



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

Could any one tell me why my johanni shake around rocks and infront of other johanni is this an abnormal behaviour or somthing els? :-?


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

Hehe... perfectly normal. Your johanni are just getting frisky and putting out their pick-up lines for the ladies...

My Maingano are just the same. **** hussies!!


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

iv'e only had them for three days........ and i have no females i think...........


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

Hey Fightingfish - just realised that you're also a Sydneysider. Cool!

Also just checked out your tank. I also run a 130L with a mix of Yellow Labs and Maingano's (obviously similar to johanni). 6 of each plus a 4-some of Acei which inhabit the top level. Main difference is that I have much more rock in mine, in fact the back wall is at least 2/3 of the way up with rocks so that there are plenty of caves etc for the fish.

I still think your johanni are fine and are just displaying. Mine do it to the ladies, but maybe yours are just doing it as a signalling / competitive thing between the boys.


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

cool thanks my johanni i think they are maniganos but when i bought them they where called johanni and i am new to chiclids as i have had a community tank for 5 years with tetras etc and have just set this tank up after my last fish pasted away and i gave the rest to someone els.

hay which aquarium do you use in sydney?


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

i think my fish are mainganos not johanni however they look almost the same i cant tell the diffirence?


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

I hope they are Maingano's - a little less aggressive than Johanni especially given your relatively smaller tank size. And absolutely wonderful fish.

Johanni females are yellow/orange so if they are that species, then yes you have all males. On the other hand Maingano males and females are both blue, with the males just darker in colour. If you have Maingano's, especially if they are young, you may have a mixture in your group of 3.

Phew thats a lot. But I got heaps of help from here when I started so wanting to "pass it on" as much as I can.


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

if you look at my tank you can see a pic of my johanni or maingano i think it is maingano they dont seem that agressive they just show off to each other and chase. does the white spot of the fin mean anything?


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

Its hard to tell but if they have silver bellies they are a little more likely to be Johanni and if they are coloured all around (like mine are) they are more likely to be Maingano.

Oh one last piece of advice for a smaller tank like yours. Get one of those little water flow pumps like they use in marine aquaria to give some circulation to the fish on top of your filter. I got one caller a Hydor Koralia Nano, but I know there are other models just as good. Its one of the best $50 investments I've made and the fish seem to love it. Plus it reduces the "dead" circulation spots in an around the rocks. And at feeding time the food is spread a little more so everyone gets to chase some.


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

onee of my fish are very dark in colour and the other 2 are light if they are maingano does this mean i have 2 female one male?


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

i use a aqua clear 200 hundred which is used at full power and creates lots of water movment and i have a very small air pump which moves the surface. however the air pump is under the aquaclear so its not very effective so i have to move it. i had a look at the pump they look good i just dont know where i would put it.......


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

The following image is of a johanni 









the next image is of a Maingano ( which looks more like my fish )


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

If you have one dark and two light then yes there is a chance that you have one male and two females, which is good. However while they are juvenile they are all a bit lighter than when they become adults so while things are looking good you can't yet be 100% sure!

Thanks for the links too. I'll check out AquariumWolrd next time I'm in Manly.


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Great thread guy's wish we were all awake at the same time. I have 4 Maingano's 2 I bought when I first set-up my tank a little over a year ago. 1 is definately the dominant Male, the other kept it lighter blue belly for a long time and hid 75% of the time I believe it was a lone female. Then I ordered two "sub-adult" females the same size (about 3"). Initially the 3 hid but now all 4 co-habitate and I enjoy me Maingano's much more than ever. The special ordered females were originally lighter in the belly as well, although now it is not as noticable. But the Dom. Male is still darker than the rest...


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

There is also a memeber here named "Dewdrop" who has a soft spot for them as well..


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

You cannot accurately determine the gender of Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos by colouring. I have had ligher subdominant males, and DARK females.


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

So Glad Hoosier has joined and posted that photo as it excellently describes my little colony too. My 2 males are very much like Hoosier's pic - with really dark blacks. The 4 females are like the bottom photo that fightingfish has up - vivid but lighter overall. To be honest there is one of the 4 that is a chance of also being a male as he darkens a little more than the others at feeding time and tends to playfight with the boys as well. Anyway overall, these are just like my fish!

As Fogelhund says though, colour is not 100% accurate for these, but in my case the behaviours match as well so that adds a little more certainty.

About to receive a Macro lens for my Digital SLR in the next week so I'll be posting pics of my own soon!

Oh and yes I've seen Dewdrop's Avatar. What a gorgeous specimen!


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

i will take some photos of my mainganos or johannis??? and can someone tell me if they are mainganos once i get the photos up. also do you know what settings to use for a camera to take photos of fish through glass while they are moving?


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

What camera are you using? SLR or compact? and what model?

I use a nikon d80 and as I try not to use flash at all (to get natural colours and to avoid reflection off the glass) I use the widest possible aperture so that I can keep the shutter speed up enough to "freeze" the fish's movements.

Most compacts set themselves up like this in what is often called a "portrait" mode. Just whatever you do, disable your flash unless you have an elaborate pro setup!


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

i have an olympus 550 Sp so a very good camera but its not a DSLR however it has many settings more then most digital cameras have. i also find when i take photos of water in my tank the water and fish look grainy how would i stop this?


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

hoosiers photo of his mainganos look like mine however the colour of them is no where as dark as that. how old would they have to be to turn that dark in colour???


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

The following link will take you to my photos of my mainganos so you can inform me of what you think they are please take a look. :fish:

http://my.mashable.com/fightingfishmbuna

PS i wish i knew how to post photos on the forum.....


----------



## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I'm pretty sure they are maingano. I'd never try to guess the sex by looking at a pic of them though. I have 4 now. Started out with 3 and thought I had 2 males and 1 female until I saw one I thought was male holding lol. She didn't hold long  . I went out and got another small maingano. I still don't know what the sex of them are. They seem to change colors all the time. I think they get darker as they get older. 2 of mine have a good bit of black on them now, the 3rd. one is lighter and the 4th one lighter yet.

I have a couple little fry hiding in rocks in my tank now and not sure what they are but kinda think I saw one getting a hint of blue to it :wink: . Might have just been wishful thinking coloring my vision but I'm hoping I have a couple more maingano babies & hoping they don't end up as a snack.

Thanks for the compliment on my avitar, Bmills. That pic was taken when they were really small.


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

From everything I have read it is nearly impossible to tell a mainganos from a male johanni. 
I belive their coloration has a lot to do with their place in the pecking order. The one in my pic is the Dom Male in the tank and he has been this patern since he turned about 1 year old . The blue stripes seem to get wider equal to how they get less agressive, the one with the most blue is the most timid. Maybe it is a coincidence and has to do to their age with the youngest having the least black and it's age is causeing it to be the most timid....


----------



## eagl97 (Dec 26, 2006)

From the pics in an Ad Konings book the dorsal fins of the male and females M.cyaneorhabdos are shaped different the males seem to have longer dorsal fins. I think my m/f ratio is 3m/3f still they have never spawned I know I should get rid of a couple the males but my girfriend is kind of nuts about that stuff.


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

i have three yellow labs and three mainganos in the future i wish to add more fish. what fish would be compatible with the fish i have now?


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

fightingfish said:


> i have three yellow labs and three mainganos in the future i wish to add more fish. what fish would be compatible with the fish i have now?


 I like the color that Metriaclima estherae "Red Zebra" added to my Mainganos and Yellow Labs plus they are able to hold their own against the somewhat aggressive Melanochromis. 2 or 3 would ballance it out visually. If you are getting addicted like most of us, "More" is a word you are going to use alot! Now the rest of the story...
I just checked out your tank in the "My Tanks". Even though it looks GREAT, I have bad news mate. A 30g will be pushing it as they get older. Agression will climb and you will need to provide a lot more hiding places (rock). I started with a 29g then moved up to a 40g long and at 48" I thought this ought to do. When people here told me it would only be a nice "Grow-out tank" I didn't believe them but now am working on a 6 footer.
I am not damning you tank, it's a nice set-up and will work for a while. Just start planning now for a bigger tank and in a year or so it won't be such a strain on the purse-strings. :wink:


----------



## eagl97 (Dec 26, 2006)

I think Red Zebras and Yellow Labs will cross breed but I could be wrong


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Posts have been edited or removed that contain LFS names. Feel free to pm them to one another, but we don't want the thread to turn into a review thread.

Kim


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

cichlidaholic said:


> Posts have been edited or removed that contain LFS names. Feel free to pm them to one another, but we don't want the thread to turn into a review thread.
> 
> Kim


Awe, here I thought you were posting to help him with his hybridization question Kim... I could use an answer to that one myself. Plus we haven't posted together in a while.  
I thought because one was a Metriaclima and the other was Labidochromis that would not be an issue  Trust me I am no expert on this... I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn last night!


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

Man I laugh every time i see this thread's title in the forum... "Shakin' Blue Johanni"

For some reason I picture a Swiss dude who got lost in Nashville in the 1960's and tried to make a music career while he was there. Maybe his backing vocals are the "Yellow Labbettes"....

:dancing:


----------



## Laurel (Jun 17, 2007)

Labs and red zebras will hybridize. I ended up getting sold hybrid that was beautiful but the most vicious fish I've ever come across. Genus has nothing to do with whether fish will hybridize, if they can mate(maternal mouthbrooders) they have potential to. If they look similar, they're more likely to.


----------



## eagl97 (Dec 26, 2006)

I bought a Yellow Lab that was pretty mean, well the boss of my tank any way. I got rid of him out of fear of being a hybrid.


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

dont fish only grow to a certain size depending on the size of the tank? or is it a problem with maturity and aggression? if i have to upgrade my tank i dont know what to do because i have no room or money to set up a new tank i dont think my parents would allow it! i cant wait until i have my own place then i could get a giant tank............. :zz:


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

Fish sometimes get stunted due to lack of room to grow in a tank... Or sometimes grow anyway and have not enough room to enjoy.

Either way they are miserable and you are not keeping them well.

Second, Mbuna also have behavioural characteristics towards territoriality and get even more miserable if they don't have a "setup" that they can feel safe in, breed in, guard, etc. Tank size and layout again has a HEAP to do with whether or not you give them a miserable existence.

Thats not to say that smaller tanks are out of the question completely, butyou have to think A LOT harder about the right fish to put in there, how many, and how to set everything up to give them a life that they will enjoy.


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

so what would be the smallest size tank i have to get in order to keep them happy when they grow larger?


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

Depends on what you have, how they are going, and the effort you put into cleanliness etc.

For a smaller group of maingano and labs, if you're careful a 30g might just do.

But most people see the 55g - 4 foot long - tank as the starting point in size for Mbuna with even bigger ones (5 and 6 footers) being commonly used as well, and regarded as "the right" size.

Sounds like that's not an option for you though. So I'd say don't worry about having a 30g, enjoy it for now and learn heaps from it. But just be careful with what fish you put in and how many, check how they are behaving, make sure they have the best setup and water you can possibly give them... and think about maybe a bigger tank in a couple of years.


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

i feel realy bad now........ the fish seem very happy for the moment and they all have a place to hide however when i went to my local aquarium they said it would be ok to keep these fish in my size tank. if i can manage to save up for a larger aquarium then i might just do that i dont enjoy suffering fish


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

hey remind me what you have and how many again...

Plus how big your tank is and how it is set up? (sunbstrate, rocks, etc)

don't feel bad, it might not be a problem, or not yet anyway. In fact its not likely to be.

Plus the fact that you care about whether they will suffer or not makes you a million times better a fish-keeper than the majority of people out there!!

To make you more comfortable I have 6 labs, 6 maingano and 4 young Acei in a 35g and they are happy, growing and breeding. I know though that the Acei will need to be switched out when they get full-sized as a 35g isn't really idea for them. At that point I'll just keep the Labs and Maingano's or else perhaps get another small species (I like Cy. Afra and am thinking of them!)


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

i do a weekly water change i add buffer and malawi salts to the aquarium i have three labs, three mainganos, i have fine sand as my substrate and sandstone rocks with ceramic rocks and pvc pipe behind that you cant see for extra hiding places. i have an air pump and a aqua clear 200 filter. i hope that is a good set up if there is anything i should add please tell me. :thumb:


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

sorry thats 2 labs one died however this was not to my fault i bought it like that i stuck with it until the end. i only had it for a week these are all my first chiclid fish.


----------



## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

I think it sounds like all should be ok. I went back and looked at the photo of your tank (I remember it's a 30g 3-footer - am I right?) andd it does look nice.

Though for Mbuna I'd up the amount of rocks as they prefer that to the open water. Also they basically go as high in the water as the rocks go so if you want them swimming at all levels in the tank then you need rocks much more up to the top.

PVC pipes etc are a great idea. I don't have any but my basic setup was done very deliberately with 2 hiding places for every one of my fish. So for my guys I have to be able to count about 30 spots that they could use as a cave or a home. I'm sure they love the pipes and stuff you've got in there for them.

So yeah I think you should be just fine with your 6 fish. But I do think that you should consider more rock as they will love it!

I'll soon post a pic of my tank to see what I've done with this kind of setup.


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

my tank is 76 cm long 50 cm tall and 36 wide


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

fightingfish said:


> i feel realy bad now........ the fish seem very happy for the moment and they all have a place to hide however when i went to my local aquarium they said it would be ok to keep these fish in my size tank. if i can manage to save up for a larger aquarium then i might just do that i dont enjoy suffering fish


It was not my intent to upset or discourage you, and I am sure your fish _are_ very happy in the home you have provided for them. I also did not mean to make it sound like you need a larger tank right away. I do however think you need to watch the numbers of juvinile fish you add now because they will grow and try to claim an area of their own as they mature.
As I said, start saving a litttle here and there and you will be able to afford a bigger tank in a year or so and that is about when they will start to need it. By then the next step won't be so drastic to you or your parents.
It's a never ending circle, more fish = bigger tank = more fish = bigger tank = even more fish and so on. Enjoy it! :lol:


----------



## fightingfish (Apr 10, 2008)

yeah i am thinking about it now im going to start saving money right away! anyway *** had this tank for alomost five years. when i first got into the hoppy i started with a fightingfish then i got a second hand tank 50 litres with four mudskippers then i got the tank i have now and i had a community tank with tetras etc. its only now i want to take another step in the hobby and move onto chiclids. :thumb:


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Red zebras and Yellow labs can crossbreed. :wink:

Kim


----------

