# Seeking advice - New to the forum - Mixed african tank



## SaberD (Oct 20, 2014)

Been a lurker here for years. Figured I would seek some advice.

Here's the setup:








75gallon with glass top
Rena filstar xp3 with custom spray bar - coarse foam, polishing pads, carbon, and crushed coral in a bag
Aquaclear 110 - coarse foam, carbon, bio rings
tetra whisper 40 air pump with 3 bubble walls
lace rock, and other aquarium rocks (not sure what kind)
custom LED fixture with single 48" strip
custom incandescent fixture with 25w clear bulbs
150w and 100w heaters
caribsea African cichlid mix (the kind with the shells)
Prime for water conditioner
Seachem Cichlid lake salt (added for lake Malawi conditions)
City water

Fish:
6" frontosa (sex unknown)
6" blue peacock (male)
5" Blue zebra (male)
5" red zebra (male)
3" Demasoni (sex unknown)
3" Daffodil Brichardi (sex unknown)
9" Plecostamus 
2" golden algae eater
4" unknown peacock (female)
5" Haplochromis sp.44 (male)
3.5" Haplochromis sp.44 (female)
4" Red Empress (Female)
5" Gold Peacock

I also have a 20H to grow fish big enough to put with the larger cichlids.








Glass Top
gravel and crushed coral
marineland biowheel 150 with added carbon bag and 2 filters
single simple airstone
pots, conch shells, and rocks
T5 24" light with 10000k and actinic bulb
75w heater
Prime for water conditioner
City water

Fish:
3" Haplochromis SP. 44 (male)
2.5" Haplochromis SP. 44 (female)
3" Rock Kribensis
3" Yellow Lab
Fry net with 15 Haplochromis SP. 44

Food:
Omega one super color flakes
Omega one veggie flakes
Omega one cichlid pellets
HBH African cichlid attack pellets
HBH super soft veggie pellets
San Francisco bay cichlid delight frozen
freeze dried baby shrimp
tubifex worms
New life spectrum cichlid formula
Ocean nutrition veggie flakes

I have a few concerns here:
1) In the 75 gallon, My haplochromis sp.44 is just not happy, he breeds with his female, but the color is not much. I know they show more color when in groups, but he is also not eating much. He shows a lot less color after I removed the subdominant male and got rid of him. I've read they should be in groups of 5 to show best color. Is this typical with these types of Victorians? I have 2 of his offspring in another tank - a male and a female. Thinking about adding them when they get big enough, but not really sure if it's worth it since I'm not too crazy about this type of fish to begin with. I'd rather get rid of them and replace them with something else rather than have them just taking up space that I could be using for more desirable fish.

2) It seems all the fish in the 20H are terrified of life. Any time you walk by the tank, they immediately hide. What's wrong with them?

3) My frontosa is digging an uber giant hole in the substrate. is this any indication of sex?

4) in the 75, it doesn't seem that any of the fish have declared a territory in the 3 months I've had them in there. Is this a cause for concern?

5) When can I add the fish from the 20 gallon to the larger tank (excluding the haps)?

6) I want to replace the hap sp44 in the 75 and his female with a different pair or trio... something with more red. Any suggestions? Thinking red empress since I already have a female, but I'm not sure about compatibility here.

7) Can anyone identify the types of rocks I have and if they are safe for my tank? (ignore the blue, it's just glass)

8) Any general advice is appreciated. Also, thanks for taking the time to read the whole thing!!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

SaberD said:


> 1) In the 75 gallon, My haplochromis sp.44 is just not happy...Is this typical with these types of Victorians?


No.



SaberD said:


> 2) It seems all the fish in the 20H are terrified of life. Any time you walk by the tank, they immediately hide. What's wrong with them?


Big fish small tank. I'd remove everyone else and let the hap fry loose.



SaberD said:


> 3) My frontosa is digging an uber giant hole in the substrate. is this any indication of sex?


No.



SaberD said:


> 4) in the 75, it doesn't seem that any of the fish have declared a territory in the 3 months I've had them in there. Is this a cause for concern?


No.



SaberD said:


> 5) When can I add the fish from the 20 gallon to the larger tank (excluding the haps)?


 Everyone but the fry need a bigger tank now. How big are the fry? I'd wait for 1.5" before mixing with adults.



SaberD said:


> 6) I want to replace the hap sp44 in the 75 and his female with a different pair or trio... something with more red. Any suggestions? Thinking red empress since I already have a female, but I'm not sure about compatibility here.


 Choose between mixed genders v all-male and mbuna v hap and peacocks...then we can give recommendations.



SaberD said:


> 7) Can anyone identify the types of rocks I have and if they are safe for my tank? (ignore the blue, it's just glass)


Maybe someone else can comment on this. Looks like rock from a coral reef, which is fine as long as no marine organisms are living in it.

What I would do:
6" frontosa (sex unknown) remove, too big for a 75G
6" blue peacock (male) keep if doing male haps/peacocks
5" Blue zebra (male) keep if doing male mbuna
5" red zebra (male) keep if doing male mbuna
3" Demasoni (sex unknown) keep if doing male mbuna
3" Daffodil Brichardi (sex unknown) remove, this is a Tang
9" Plecostamus remove, too big for a 75G
2" golden algae eater remove, these can harm your fish when mature
4" unknown peacock (female) remove if doing all male
5" Haplochromis sp.44 (male) keep if doing male haps/peacocks
3.5" Haplochromis sp.44 (female) remove if doing all male
4" Red Empress (Female) remove, too big for a 75G
5" Gold Peacock keep if doing male haps/peacocks

Malawi are harem breeders so if you are going to have females think in terms of 4 species with 1m:4f of each. Your hap might brighten up with more females and once you get rid of the mbuna.

Which is your favorite fish?


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

Out of personal experience I second DJRansome concerning type of desired setup.

Once upon a time, in a tank 8 years ago, I had Flametails (peacock) and Acei (mbuna) in a 55G and everyone lived peacefully and happily together. This was the one and only time I had Peacocks/Haps and Mbuna living successfully together. Every other time I experimented with mixing these groups after that one success it has failed miserably. No deaths, just unhappy tank occupants which were soon rehomed. The moral of this short story is - decide what you like better, mbuna or hap/peacock. For me it was mbuna. Just realize that with mbuna, solos don't seem to be near as happy as they are in properly sized groups.

Choose the fish that is properly sized for a 75G that is your favorite. Begin building tank mates around that fish in proper proportions and tank compatibility.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

Welcome. I just joined after being a lurker for a couple of years. Just wanted to add that you have fishes from many different lakes. Pick one lake you like the fishes from the most and start from there. Pick species that will work together and will suit the tank size. If you still want more do what many do and buy more tanks. Ultimately you'll get more enjoyment from your tank.
Regards Mike


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## SaberD (Oct 20, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestions guys! Here's a little background on the tank. We bought the 75g tank and stand along with the fish from a Mexican restaurant where they were being poorly taken care of, and redid the whole tank, re-silicone, added better filtration, lighting, painted, etc. All the fish aside from the demasoni, algae eater, brichardi, and red zebra came with the tank (along with about 2 dozen others that we got rid of). It was pretty ridiculously overcrowded and dirty, and they had the setup going on there for about 3 years. I would love to have more tanks to mix them properly, but my girlfriend won't let me have any more lol. We are very busy people, and don't really have time or space for more tanks since we already have the 20g and another 55 with non aggressive fish.

I haven't noticed any severe aggression between any of the fish. They chase each other every now and then, but nothing persistent. Although I have to admit, some of them get nipped sometimes, and not always the same ones.

If I'm not having any major issues with aggression, is it necessary to have all the same species/lake?

Even without aggression issues, are the fish going to be stressed out just by the presence of the other species?

Are there any other ways of detecting stressed out fish aside from being attacked/attacking other fish or lack of appetite?

I've seen a lot of people mixing lakes and species with success. We have really personified these fish, and it's going to be hard to get rid of some of them. My girlfriend is especially fond of the frontosa. I told her we would have to eventually get a bigger tank for it. Neither of us have been able to choose a favorite because they are all so different, so I'm wondering if there is any possible way we could keep these fish together over the next year and a half? We plan on moving then, and at that time will have the ability to create new setups for them.

I'm wondering if since they have been together for so long if it has any impact on them being compatible with each other?

The hap sp44 seems a lot happier now as well, and is showing a lot more color and flashing at his female. I'm not really sure what the deal is. Maybe just finally getting more used to the new setup? I'd like to remove the female, because he seems to constantly want to breed with it, but he shows his best colors when she is around, so without her I'm thinking I may as well just get rid of him... and since you guys don't suggest only certain fish having females, I guess putting in the other female from the 20g so the one isn't always targeted is out of the question?

Also, over the past week, the peacock that we thought was a female ended up being a subdominant what appears to be a red-shoulder peacock male as it started to show a lot of color kind of out of nowhere which allowed us to somewhat identify it.

I'll try to get some better pictures of the rocks, but I know for sure that its not live rock.

Thanks for the help!!


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

*I'm wondering if there is any possible way we could keep these fish together over the next year and a half?* Probably not. I admire what you have done saving the fish from poor husbandry and I'm sure you didn't want to read what was in the replies. Having said that I think given the better upkeep they are just coming into their own. I think it highly likely that over the next while it will become apparent to you that the setups won't work. I'm especially surprised you haven't come home to carnage in the 20 gallon given what is in it. With the breeding net in the tank it is effectively a 15 gallon tank. In your original post you said the fish appear terrified and that some just don't look happy. That should be a big red flag. Your breaking so many tenant of cichlid keeping and the outcome in the end will be unsatisfying to you and your fishes. I implore you to heed the advice given. I also attached three more article all from this site. Well worth reading. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/p_demasoni.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/haps_vs_mbuna.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c_frontosa.php


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

SaberD said:


> Are there any other ways of detecting stressed out fish aside from being attacked/attacking other fish or lack of appetite?


 For me, when I had calvus in with haps and peacocks, they did not move around the tank as much as when they were in a Tang community tank. Maybe they thought if they didn't move no one would notice them, LOL.

Make sure you check out the length of the streamers Frontosa should have...you may not realize the other fish nipping off the tips.


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