# Is bigger better?



## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

I may get blasted for this, but here it goes....

Everyone on this forum including myself agrees that large fish require large aquariums. However, keeping large fish (such as an Oscar) can be done in a tank that is not giant. In fact I recently went to an acquaintances home and found they were keeping a 12" Oscar in a 29 gallon aquarium. The fish had beautiful colors, perfect fins, clear eyes, and a great disposition. It not only seemed healthy, but looked very happy. It would move about the tank as if showing off its home. The tank was simple in setup, a few rocks at one side, simple lighting, and a Fluval 304 for filtration.

My point is that even though a fish that size would do great in a tank the size of a 55 gallon, it really is not always necessary to have one that large. Furthermore, for the newbieâ€™s to keeping fish, don't be discouraged and shy away from owning an Oscar just because you can not afford, or do not have room for a very large aquarium. But be prepared to go the extra mile when it comes to keeping the fish happy and health in a smaller environment. That may require more frequent water changes, maybe even daily water changes, but it is possible!


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## gnomemagi (Jun 13, 2009)

I find it synonymous with keeping a large dog locked up in a small cage. Sure, you might feed it good food, give it clean water, and it'll have shelter from the rain, but is it happy? A 29 gallon is 2.5 feet long by 1 feet. The fish can barely turn around.

While different, as we stand upright and fish are horizontal, thats the same dimensions as a 5'6" human living in a cell thats 11 feet 2 inches long and five feet 6 inches wide. My cubicle at work is larger than that.

The fish has no way of getting exercise in a tank that small. It will in all likelihood die early because of this because of fatty tissue buildup, no matter how clean you keep its water. Oscars are by no means fast swimmers or need to, but in the wild they occupy and claim hundreds of gallons of water as their own per individual.


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## Strohs58 (Aug 3, 2009)

I think its the old, Turtle shell comparison. You and I wouldn't want to carry a heavy shell like that on our back, but the turtle doesn't mind. Why? Because thats all he knows. He doesn't know life any differently. Same with us our head weighs an average of 16lbs, (unless your blonde) small jab at my wife there.  it doesn't feel like were carrying a bowling ball on our shoulders but we are, and were used to it.

An Oscar in a smaller tank, doesn't know life any differently if they grew up in that tank. So they unknowingly accept the situation, and it becomes the norm for them. I had a large O, in a 20g tall for many years he was a beautiful fish, and seemed quite happy. Now that I can provide a bigger tank its only right to do so, but I agree oscars brought up in smaller tanks can be quite happy and healthy in there since thats all they know.


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## Blademan (Sep 20, 2008)

Over the years (got my first oscar about 40 years ago) all of the Oscars I've seen that were in small tanks since the juvenile stage, did not look normal. It is simply cruel and irresponsible. I wouldn't recommend it, and don't think anyone else should either. Get a fish that is appropriate for the size tank you have. Anyone that keeps an adult O in a 29 gal should be ashamed of themselves.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Blademan said:


> Over the years (got my first oscar about 40 years ago) all of the Oscars I've seen that were in small tanks since the juvenile stage, did not look normal. It is simply cruel and irresponsible. I wouldn't recommend it, and don't think anyone else should either. Get a fish that is appropriate for the size tank you have. Anyone that keeps an adult O in a 29 gal should be ashamed of themselves.


 =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Sorry use a bare 55 as a minimum, and I only have 23 years experience with oscars, and after keeping them in huge tanks, I will never ever recommend anything smaller than a bare 55.
An adult male oscar can break the glass in a 29. I've witnessed it.


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## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

I knew I would get flack, but the simple fact of the matter is that it IS possible, it HAS been done (and successfully at that), and if the fish is happy, there is nothing wrong with it.

Don't get me wrong, if the fish is used to a larger aquarium, there is no way it should be moved into smaller quarters. And if it is unhappy, the tank should be replaced, or the fish returned.

And, I really started this post, because it seems everyone on this site (new or old to fishkeeping) are under the impression that a large tank MUST be used. Those people should be ashamed of themselves. That is no message to give to a youngster who has a 20 or 29 gallon tank and wants to give fishkeeping a shot. By telling them they MUST have an aquaruim out of there capabilities, it will discourage them from a truely satisfying hobby. If I had beleived that I could not keep a fish healthy in my first (small) tank, I most certainly would not have had any of the success in fishkeeping or breeding that I have had. I probably would have never bought the aquarium in the first place.

Finally, I always use the largest tank possible for all of my fish, but I have been keeping fish for 25 + years, and have quite a bit more knowledge than a novice or young aquarist and have the means to afford larger aquariums.


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## Linoleum (Aug 9, 2009)

Was the O kept in the 29 since it was say 2"? Or was it grown to 12" somewhere else and put into a smaller tank?

But is bigger *Better*? Yes bigger is better no dobt.


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## Soadown (Jul 14, 2009)

I think the Oscar was purchased at a pet store adoption ($5 at most stores) then put into the tank. If the Oscar was put in there at 2" then he would have definitely not grown that big. And if for some slim chance that he did, I would still feel sorry for him because of the lack of swimming distance (which I would also think leads to less muscle mass).


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

When i give advice to the newbie about tank size it's for their benefit. Larger tanks are MUCH easier to take care of than smaller tanks. I try not to do it in a discouraging manner but a factual manner. Any cichlid that grows to over 10" should not be kept in a 29. There's a whole gaggle of cichlids to choose from that can easily be kept in a 29 with rewarding results. After the experience is gained with those smaller cichlids then move on to something bigger, which requires a bigger tank, it's that simple.

If you're a beginer fish keeper and you want to start with an oscar (one of the most rewarding cichlids to keep in my opinion) then start with a 55. There's a ton of them on craigs list and they're only 18" longer than a 29, so there's no excuse.

If you're in a hurry to get started with an oscar then a tank, a top, a heater and a sponge filter is all you need to start with a small oscar in a 55. In time move up to using a canister filter. It's not rocket science, just simple common sense. Big fish need big tanks in order to THRIVE, not survive. An oscar can survive quite a long time in a five gallon pail with an air stone...


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## Strohs58 (Aug 3, 2009)

Soadown said:


> I think the Oscar was purchased at a pet store adoption ($5 at most stores) then put into the tank. *If the Oscar was put in there at 2" then he would have definitely not grown that big. *And if for some slim chance that he did, I would still feel sorry for him because of the lack of swimming distance (which I would also think leads to less muscle mass).


Yes they can and do grow to normal size in those tanks, I'm not proud of it but I've done it, from not knowing any better at the time...


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## mia_ann (Dec 20, 2008)

I'm inclined to agree that it CAN be done, but would you put a Great Dane in a cage made for a cocker spaniel? No. So why would you even WANT to attempt to keep a full grown oscar in a tank that small for long term?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

> Is bigger better?


Yes.


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## cichlidfeesh (Apr 6, 2009)

Life just becomes so much easier when you spend the extra 30 dollars on Craigâ€™s List for a bigger tank when keeping larger cichlids. Fish aside, it stresses me out when I see a big fish in a little tank. One of the perks of fish keeping for me is the relaxing factor of watching my cichlids roam around.

I understand people get different things out of keeping fish, so if keeping alive a big fish in a little tank is fine with you then go ahead. Since fish aren't furry there are no laws protecting them in the home aquarium (that I know of). Could you imagine a team of animal cruelty officers raiding a house and bagging up fish? :lol:


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

> Could you imagine a team of animal cruelty officers raiding a house and bagging up fish?


Actually... it happens... Unfortunately not too often though...


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## cichlidfeesh (Apr 6, 2009)

Really? Where do they take them?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

To me.


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## livewireumd (Jun 5, 2009)

Posts like this make me pretty mad.


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## gnomemagi (Jun 13, 2009)

Makes no difference if it was in a 29G all its life - that its not "known any better." Keeping a dog in a cage all its life - it doesn't know any better either. Doesn't mean that animal is happy.


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## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

It seems that most of you did not read my initial post......

I wrote that the fish was *healthy and looked happy*. It was not cowering in the corner, it wasn't overweight, and it looked great.

I understand that everyone on this site feels ALL fish MUST have a large tank. I simply posted this because a large tank is not ALWAYS necessary.

On a side note: I have a good friend that breeds discus (with huge success) in a 10 gallon tank. I challenge anyone to tell me that the fish arent doing well in that small tank. The fact that they breed like clockwork is proof that they are doing great, and obviously happy! BTW: these fish have been kept in larger tanks IE; 55 gallon, and 120 gallon, and stopped breeding. It was only after returning them to the ten that the breeding resumed.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Apples and oranges...

Oscars NEED big tanks. Not 29's.


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## Strohs58 (Aug 3, 2009)

Wow, just... Wow! :?

I think we go a little overboard on what we think it takes to make fish happy.

I can't even pretend to know what my fish think... :?

Being in any "Glass Cage," is a huge change from what they would experience in the wild.

HUGE.

So were all toturing every one of our fish by keeping them in "glass cages." and then we pretend to know they are happier in a 75 than a 29 when they've never experienced a 75???

I guess its easier to justify our actions keeping them in these small confines, if we assign our own brand of happiness to it. :-?


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## livewireumd (Jun 5, 2009)

14 inch Oscar in a 12 inch Wide tank =/= happiness...


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I would agree that no tank is big enough for any fish. I keep fish as pets, not moving pictures. There's a difference. I tend to want to properly care for my pets. If I wanted a tank for status or just to have one I wouldn't care. The thing is... I do care so I attempt to provide them with what experts seem to believe is the appropriate sized tanks. Nothing will ever mimic the wild or the Amazon, but I can try. It's a matter of personal belief in weather you think what you're doing is right or wrong. I feel oscars at a minimum should be in a bare 55. and I also feel that understocking and over filtering is just common sense. I've been in this hobby for a while now and have seen and done it all when it comes to oscars, experience tells me a couple of things.

1. The bigger the tank the better.

2. Giving someone new into the hobby the proper advice tends to keep the new person in the hobby a lot longer.

3.Telling them the same advice that walmart or big box or chain store would tell them is wrong and will eventually frustrate and deture new people from sticking with the hobby.

4. (And this is a new one that's come along in the last couple of years) Letting a thread carry on with rediculous advice about oscars is something I will simply not do.

In short, if you are new to keeping oscars please don't attempt to keep it in a 29 gallon, at a minimum get a 55 or better yet a 75.

Thank you, TFG


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