# Help with Maingano disease please!



## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

My most dominant maingano has been acting strangely lately. He is still hungry and eats but swims around with his tail slightly pinched and is reclusive. He has been doing this for a day or two but now I notice some ich on him. My water parameters are 0 ammonia 0 nitrates 0 nitrites and I did a water change on monday. I suspect the ich is a secondary infection.

What could this pinched tail and listless swimming mean? He is still eating and looks fine other than the pinched tail fin and ich.


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## Ingmar1979 (Dec 19, 2011)

Ich can be very contagious, so I would suggest to isolate the Maingano right away.
Perhaps you can set up a "hospital" tank and treat the infected fish ?


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

riverpaws said:


> My water parameters are 0 ammonia 0 nitrates 0 nitrites


Did you just do a huge water change? - maybe someone else can expand upon this but I am not sure 0 nitrates is normal. Nitrates themselves are only harmful in large quantities *but* 0 nitrates seems unusual to me.

Anyone else agree?

--

Also, what is the tanks temperature?


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

I did a 25% water change and the nitrates are usually around 5, but this time they were lower for some reason. Seems odd to me too. It might've been more like in between 0 and 5, I have a hard time telling when they're that low. I did a first water change on, I believe, wednesday of last week, so I don't think it had been quite a whole week between the two changes and maybe this is the issue? I don't know...

About a hospital tank, I can probably set one up, but in my experience, anything that the Maingano has will probably hit the other fish too, right? The damage is kind of already done in other words?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

How long has the tank been running? Dimensions?
You might be better off treating the tank they're currently in.
Check the library article on ich as there are multiple methods for treating it.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

say your not using the test kit properly, or haven;t in the past and now its too far gone.


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

GTZ said:


> How long has the tank been running? Dimensions?
> You might be better off treating the tank they're currently in.
> Check the library article on ich as there are multiple methods for treating it.


55 gallon tank, standard, about 4 feet x 12" x 21". Tank has been running for 2 years but only about 3-4 weeks with cichlids in it. I will check the library article. Thank you. So you don't think this is a secondary infection? Would ich pinch the tail like that and cause him to be reclusive?


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> say your not using the test kit properly, or haven;t in the past and now its too far gone.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Sorry.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

When doing the nitrate test (now/or ever) do you shake the 2nd bottle for 30 seconds, then the vial for 1 minute?

I would doubt that with 25% water changes you nitrates are at 5, what I think you are seeing is the slow failure of your nitrate test kit. There is a 2 part bottle (bottle 2) and if not used right these 2 parts get out of balance showing low readings, and eventually none at all.

Your tank should never show 0 nitrates, if it does then your test kit is stuffed or your tank is not cycling.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

riverpaws said:


> 55 gallon tank, standard, about 4 feet x 12" x 21". Tank has been running for 2 years but only about 3-4 weeks with cichlids in it. I will check the library article. Thank you. So you don't think this is a secondary infection? Would ich pinch the tail like that and cause him to be reclusive?


Ich is a parasite, it was likely introduced with some plants,fish,rock or substrate you added recently. When the fish become stressed due to tank conditions, be it aggression or tank chemistry, this parasite can thrive and become visible on the fish. When its visible it is in its advanced stage, and the chances of survival are lowered. I would treat the whole tank, your other fish will have ich now or soon if you don't.


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> When doing the nitrate test (now/or ever) do you shake the 2nd bottle for 30 seconds, then the vial for 1 minute?
> 
> I would doubt that with 25% water changes you nitrates are at 5, what I think you are seeing is the slow failure of your nitrate test kit. There is a 2 part bottle (bottle 2) and if not used right these 2 parts get out of balance showing low readings, and eventually none at all.
> 
> Your tank should never show 0 nitrates, if it does then your test kit is stuffed or your tank is not cycling.


Okay. Thank you! I have been shaking the second bottle and then the vial per the instructions on the test kit, but probably not for long enough as I never use a timer and generally just estimate. I will test again and post the results when I get a chance.

Or are you saying I need to buy a new test kit now that I've ruined the second bottle?


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> riverpaws said:
> 
> 
> > 55 gallon tank, standard, about 4 feet x 12" x 21". Tank has been running for 2 years but only about 3-4 weeks with cichlids in it. I will check the library article. Thank you. So you don't think this is a secondary infection? Would ich pinch the tail like that and cause him to be reclusive?
> ...


Do you only have Cichlids? I.e. You do not have pleco's etc?


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

> Do you only have Cichlids? I.e. You do not have pleco's etc?


Yes, only Mbuna. Nothing else. No live plants or anything. Just lace rock and the cichlids.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Plecos will be ok with standard ich treatment.

Its Clown Loaches and the like you need to worry about. If you have this scaless fish you need to read carefully if you are going to use medication that its safe and at what levels for your fish.


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

> Ich is a parasite, it was likely introduced with some plants,fish,rock or substrate you added recently. When the fish become stressed due to tank conditions, be it aggression or tank chemistry, this parasite can thrive and become visible on the fish. When its visible it is in its advanced stage, and the chances of survival are lowered. I would treat the whole tank, your other fish will have ich now or soon if you don't.


Okay, I was suspecting maybe a bacterial infection or something with the pinched tail and then ich got a stronghold because of the fish's weakened state. I will, of course, treat for the ich. The article on this site says that salt is okay for use along with the medication but I've been warned away from using salt with cichlids before.

I'm planning on using formalin/malachite green which has worked for me in the past and keeping the surface really agitated along with raising the temperature a bit, and then maybe adding some salt. Would this be safe?


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> Plecos will be ok with standard ich treatment.
> 
> Its Clown Loaches and the like you need to worry about. If you have this scaless fish you need to read carefully if you are going to use medication that its safe and at what levels for your fish.


No clown loaches or anything so should be okay there.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

I wish you good luck - hope the issue resolves itself quickly for you.


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

tim_s said:


> I wish you good luck - hope the issue resolves itself quickly for you.


Thanks, Tim! :thumb:


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Do you know your PH KH and GH ? I have read an artical recently that suggest KH and GH can be the difference between medication killing or not killing your fish.

Also, I have a suggestion for you. Do the bath below, your fish is very close to deaths door if he has clamped fins and noticable white spots, This should help remove the parasite and also help the fish get some oxygen.

This guy has done quite a few tests on successful ich removal.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Ich.html



> For severe infections (especially with sensitive fish such as Clown Loaches) I would recommend a bath in Methylene Blue for as many fish as I could capture (especially the really sick ones that tend die quicker from ich such as Clown Loaches again). This bath will also help with the main reason ich kills (at least in my opinion), depletion of oxygen from damage to the gills (methylene blue is a hemoglobin transfer agent). To prepare this bath I use 1 teaspoon 2.303% solution per 5 gallons (double dose) in a bath of aquarium water from the tank the fish you wish to treat came from, I usually use about a Ã‚Â½ gallon of water, however you may use less. I also recommend about one teaspoon of salt (Sodium Chloride) per gallon of dip water to aid further in aiding the fish via production of more mucous.
> Measurement of the Methylene Blue does not need to be precise as this bath should be used for about 30 minutes. Make sure you keep the water in a warm area, as in a cold room the water temperature can drop rapidly which would stress the fish. Do NOT pour this water back into your display aquarium when finished. This can be performed twice per day. After this bath I would also suggest a 3 minute dip for most dire of fish in a salt solution of about 1.012 specific gravity, this will rupture some of the some of the Trophozoites on the fish.


EDIT: oh i should note you will still need to treat the tank, this is just to help the fish thats bad survive.


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

Okay, thanks so much for your help! I will give it a shot. The fish's fins are not "clamped" yet, he's just swimming with a slightly pinched tail...not sure if there's a difference. 

I do not know the KH or GH. This is a new concept that I've been learning about recently and I am sending for a KH kit (no stores down here sell it, have to order online). As for the pH, it was 8.4 when I tested.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I would say your KH is about 12 or higher with a ph of that level assuming you do not add liquid ph up. So it should be ok. Also make sure your tank gets lots of surface movement of the water and bubbles if you can.. oxygen is what the fish find hardest with this parasite in there gills.


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> I would say your KH is about 12 or higher with a ph of that level assuming you do not add liquid ph up. So it should be ok. Also make sure your tank gets lots of surface movement of the water and bubbles if you can.. oxygen is what the fish find hardest with this parasite in there gills.


Our water is naturally a very high pH. I add nothing of that nature to the water. I will make sure there is enough oxygen for them. Thank you very much! Much appreciated advice.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Any updates ? Did the bath help ?


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> Any updates ? Did the bath help ?


Yes, things are looking better. Thank you! The Maingano I was worried about is much more active now.

Strange though, right when I treated the whole tank three other fish went crazy. Flashing and rubbing and darting everywhere, like the meds made it worse or something? Ever hear of this happening?

I have also installed a powerhead for increased oxygen.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

riverpaws said:


> Flashing and rubbing and darting everywhere, like the meds made it worse or something? Ever hear of this happening?
> I have also installed a powerhead for increased oxygen.


Which med did u add? Any salt or raised temp?


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

I used quick cure (formalin/m. blue), and have raised the temperature very slightly (one or two degrees). I did put a little salt in too, yes.


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

I retested my water and I was definitely off on the nitrates. They are at 40. Ammonia 0-0.5 and nitrite 0. Should I change my water or continue the medication? Or change the water and then put the meds in to just treat what I took out?? No flashing today, looks better, but some are still breathing heavy.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I would change water AND continue meds.

Make sure you have plenty of surface agitation.


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## riverpaws (Dec 7, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> I would change water AND continue meds.
> 
> Make sure you have plenty of surface agitation.


I put in a power head and will continue to follow your instructions. Thanks! :thumb:


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