# Stocking 150 Gallon with CA Cichlids. Need ideas!



## ankit (May 27, 2015)

Hi everyone! I'm new to this forum!  
Anyways, I'm getting a new 150G, 48"x20"x36" (LxWxH) and am deciding on keeping Cichlids. I've decided that I'm *not* going to go for African Cichlids as I lack the experience required. Anyways, can I have these combos in my setup ?
1) 1 Tiger Oscar & 6 Silver Dollars
OR
2) 1 Tiger Oscar & 1 Zebra Tilapia
OR
3) 1 JD & 2 Blood Parrots
OR
4) 1 Red Devil & 1 Flowerhorn
I want to keep aggressive cichlids that grow to at least 12" in this tank. Forgive me but I'm not very experienced when it comes to cichlids. What other options would you guys suggest? 
Thanks!


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## Fishnut71 (Dec 7, 2014)

Option #4 is more than likely out, unless you happen to find 2 unusually mellow specimens.

How about paratheraps/viejas: H. bocourti; V. regani; V. argentea


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## ankit (May 27, 2015)

Googled all of those. None available at my LFS. All the big cichlids they sell are :-
1) Jaguars (too big for 150?)
2) Wolf Cichlid ( obviously too big for a 150)
3) Oscars (so common, they sell at the price of a goldfish)
4) Flowerhorn (also common, still expensive)
5) Recently, the Zebra Tilapia
6) Red devils and blood parrots
So my choice is limited to these. If I'm lucky, I might find a Pike which I've been told, is also too big for a 150


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## Fishnut71 (Dec 7, 2014)

Personally, I think for a 48" long tank, I would only go JD and parrots


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I agree with Fishnut. Or do a lone Oscar and a larger pleco of your choice. Silver Dollars, depending on the species, can get quite large. Find out which ones they offer. The 3' height adds volume, but does nothing in terms of territory/footprint.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> The 3' height adds volume, but does nothing in terms of territory/footprint.


While essentially true, as stated, height gets a real "bad rap" on this forum. BUt it is just words, not how fish really experience life in a glass box!!

Space is space. Never forget that.
Fish are cooped up in a glass box , and every square inch of space is significant.
Back when I was a 12 year old kid I thought just like the common mentality on this forum .I thought, the height of the tank means nothing to cichlids because territorial space that cichlids will fight over is the footprint of the tank. Over 35 years later, from watching cichlids, I know that is a view significant only from the mentality of how many fish you can pack in, in a given space. BOTTOM LINE: space is space. Well over 35 years of watching cichlids makes me laugh :lol: at this mentality.

DO you want examples from which I have observed to demonstrate the importance of a deeper tank??
2007-08. Moved and dislodged the overflow on my 180 gal. tank. Quick fix, but not done properly as I was moving and needed the tank set up ASAP. To make a long story short, it leaked 6 months later and I dropped the water level down from about 23" to 17". Twice I did that and watched the aggression in my cichlids tank go up 10X. Every fish in the tank, but most notably the mild mannered boss who could not swim with out some body getting in his way!!!


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

IMO a 150 gal. is a large enough tank for an Oscar plus silver dollars. Has decent enough chance of working out.

Generally, if you are going to stock more then one cichlid......4-5 is about the minimum you are going to need to have a decent chance of it working out. Stocking only 2 or 3 cichlids, gives you a slim chance of succeeding. Those are not generally workable numbers, especially with the more aggressive cichlids listed (red devil, flowerhorn, butti, ect.)

There are lots of options for cichlid tank mates with Oscars. Just a few possibilities: severums, blue acaras, chocolate cichlid, festivum, or even some the smaller CA like firemouth, convict.


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## thiswasgone (May 5, 2015)

You can put either a: breeding pair of Red Terrors, breeding pair of Jaguars, breeding pair of any of the other 1' cichlids mentioned in this thread, breeding pair of Dovii (for maybe a year or two), a single Umbee (for a year or two)*, Green Terror w/ another large cichlid (1'max) or a smaller cichlids that can hold their own (like convicts), breeding pair of Red Devils/Midas (maybe perm or for a few years depending on how large they grow), or a Texas w/ another large cichlid.

Regardless of what option you chose, remember large fish require large water changes in addition too large amounts of food. If you cannot commit to that stick to small community fish in a planted tank. In addition, all non-breeding pair options that I listed can and have worked, but if one of those fish have a nastier personality compared to the other it can lead to a dead fish really fast. Also note that a 150g is about the absolute min for the breeding pairs of 1'+ cichlids, so be wary of that as well.

*Umbee don't tolerate other umbee, so if you want a pair, unless you have a divider or lost of hiding places and a large tank (300g+), it will lead to a dead fish.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

thiswasgone said:


> You can put either a: breeding pair of Red Terrors, breeding pair of Jaguars, breeding pair of any of the other 1' cichlids mentioned in this thread, breeding pair of Dovii (for maybe a year or two), a single Umbee (for a year or two)*,
> *Umbee don't tolerate other umbee, so if you want a pair, unless you have a divider or lost of hiding places and a large tank (300g+), it will lead to a dead fish.


If your going to attempt a pair of just about any cichlid, with out tank mates, you should always have a divider handy. Long term, it's usually an unstable situation and can often end up with a dead female.
Cichlids don't get married and live happily ever after. Monogamous pair bonding is largely a myth. Male and female come together for the duration of a spawn. After the fry are let go, it's good bye and get lost! In captivity, the abundance of calories keeps the female ready to spawn in very short time. With outside threats, pairs will stay together to continue claiming and defending their space. But with no outside threats, there is much less reason to stay together. Given enough space and choice of mates, very few cichlids are actually monogamous. Serial monogamy at best. Just as an example: I had 2 pairs of convicts in my 180 gal. They went about 2 years before they swapped partners; even with this very limited choice of mates. When I kept only convicts in my 180 gal. for a number of years, I had females that had bred with every male in the tank and none of the convicts had less then 3 partners. More choice of mates, time and some space, and there is no monogamy what so ever!

Convicts are generally much easier to keep as pairs then any of the big CA listed here. The very same pairs of cons that got along just fine in the community tank......often had to be divided, the few times I have kept them in their own tank. Large aggressive CA by their lonesome, never had them get along. Either you move them out after a spawn, or you have divider handy.


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## thiswasgone (May 5, 2015)

BC in SK said:


> thiswasgone said:
> 
> 
> > You can put either a: breeding pair of Red Terrors, breeding pair of Jaguars, breeding pair of any of the other 1' cichlids mentioned in this thread, breeding pair of Dovii (for maybe a year or two), a single Umbee (for a year or two)*,
> ...


I've never really heard of/seen a big cichlid (12"+) kill his/her mate inside of an aquarium, large enough to house both of them for life, on purpose. I've only heard of/seen cichlids killing their mates from over aggressive breeding behavior, or when the tank is too small for both of them. Don't get me wrong though, I agree a divider/extra tank should always ready to separate the pair since I've bred large cichlids myself, but I've just never seen a mating pair attempt to kill each other given large enough space and hiding spots. The only exception I know of is when people try to breed Umbee, who are not tolerant of other Umbee regardless of sex and have large territories.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

In 150 gal. of space I wouldn't even count on a pair of salvini coexisting, with out tankmates! Good hiding spots will help, but it won't stop a dominant male from claiming the whole tank and searching the tank to rid the intruder from his territory. A close eye, and likely have to be devided very frequently. IMO, unrealistic to expect most pairs to coexist for a lifetime. 
You can find numerous examples of red terror killing their mates in 300 gal. or larger tanks. And that's with tankmates!! Which IMO goes a long, long ways.
You can find examples of dovii killing their mate in a 600 gal. tank. Of course it can be difficult to keep dovii with anything. Even in 15,000 gallons, a dovii can kill many fish and be overly aggressive (Arapaima on MFK).
I've known people with pairs of Umbee, and no I don't see why they would be considered some sort of exception :-? Amongst the most aggressive but really, quite typical, like large CA.

Don't have much faith in just a pair of large CA coexisting in just about any size of tank. For the duration of a spawn or a close eye and regularly divided, that might work OK. But usually sooner, rather then later, one or the other is supposed to be on it's way.....but the're stuck in one place! Geez, I wouldn't even bet on a middle weight like salvini, with out tankmates!


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## thiswasgone (May 5, 2015)

BC in SK said:


> In 150 gal. of space I wouldn't even count on a pair of salvini coexisting, with out tankmates! Good hiding spots will help, but it won't stop a dominant male from claiming the whole tank and searching the tank to rid the intruder from his territory. A close eye, and likely have to be devided very frequently. IMO, unrealistic to expect most pairs to coexist for a lifetime.
> You can find numerous examples of red terror killing their mates in 300 gal. or larger tanks. And that's with tankmates!! Which IMO goes a long, long ways.
> You can find examples of dovii killing their mate in a 600 gal. tank. Of course it can be difficult to keep dovii with anything. Even in 15,000 gallons, a dovii can kill many fish and be overly aggressive (Arapaima on MFK).
> I've known people with pairs of Umbee, and no I don't see why they would be considered some sort of exception :-? Amongst the most aggressive but really, quite typical, like large CA.
> ...


The umbee is the only cichlid that I know who, from other accounts and personally, will attack its mates just because they are intolerant of each other even during spawning. While I know there are probably other exceptions, I've never owned or remember hearing of them.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

While BC presents some good examples of how extra volume in a deeper tank can help disperses aggression, the fact remains, it's generally more difficult for the aquarist to divide up added volume into distinct territories, than it is for us to divide up added footprint.

Especially when keeping fish with a known propensity to redecorate.

Some of the proposed combos, I feel, would be more likely to succeed in a 6' tank for this reason.

Personally, I'd go with a single specimen large cichlid and maybe smaller pairs (convicts/fire mouths), rather than a pair of heavyweights.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I think BC brings up a good point. There is a general misconception that a "pair bond" is a permanent phenomenon. BC has already done a good job on describing what is actually going on.

For 4ft tanks, I like to stick with smaller fish. The trials and tribulations associated with keeping large substrate spawners in small tanks is not worth the hassle IMO.


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