# Nitrate Problems



## metrov (Jun 27, 2011)

Hi,

I have a 100 gallon Seaclear tank. For about two years, it contained 4 orange parrot fish, five clown loaches, and a bottom feeder. Everyone was doing fine. All of a sudden, the nitrate levels became too high (on my test strips, it's in the danger zone, I believe around 60). My beloved clown loaches started dying. I tried everything to lower the nitrates: frequent water changes, vaccum the gravel, added plants, added bacteria. Nothing wants to work. The nitrate level has gone down, but still remains in the danger zone. Now I have lost all my loaches, plus one parrot. So the tank now holds (3) parrots and the bottom feeder. Right now they are all doing fine--active and healthy--I just don't want anymore suprises. I'm hoping the tank will stabilize at this point since there are less fish polluting the water.

Can anyone give me any more advice on how to get the nitrates down? I now suspect the parrots, being sort of a large fish (now averaging 5-6 inches long) contribute greatly to the pollution and therefore, I just can't keep as many fish in this 100 gallon tank. Thank you


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

Nitrates are the end product of the nitrogen cycle and are going to be present in some amount in any cycled tank. Typically they can only be removed through dilution (i.e. water changes).

Depending on the size of your loaches your tank doesn't sound like it was terribly overstocked. By bottom feeder do you mean common pleco? They produce a lot of waste, as can over feeding. Have you done a thorough vacuuming of the substrate during your recent water changes? What sort of filter are you using? My suggestion is to step up the frequency of your water changes a bit. What was your normal water change schedule like prior to this?


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## metrov (Jun 27, 2011)

Yes, bottom feeder is a common pleco. I didn't realize they produced a lot of waste. I only feed every other day, and only give them enough food so that they finish it off within five minutes. When I first attempted to reduce the nitrates, I changed water daily for first three days, then about once a week for about a month. But after seeing no change, I went back to my normal schedule of changing it about twice a month.

The Seaclear tank employs several filters--carbon filter, fiber cloth filter, and the bacteria balls placed in back of the tank.

I try to vacuum the gravel as thoroughly as possible, but now that I've added plants, it's more difficult without disrupting the plants everytime.

Frustrating that the nitrates won't go down. I have no idea what to do next. Find another home for the pleco?


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## Pizzle (May 24, 2011)

Water changes are the best way to lower your nitrates. When you change water, how much do you change? Do you clean the filter media on a regular basis? Dirt can build up on the filter media and add to nitrates. Make sure that you do not rinse filter media in tap water as chlorine and chloramines may kill your bacteria. Use tank water instead or dechlorinated water.


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## Flippercon (Mar 5, 2011)

With nitrates rising as fast as you say I would stick with constant wcs. I would cut feeding back a little more and bump up wcs. Say 50% weekly untill you notice the difference. Going to once every two weeks is just letting it get to the danger zone. I would test my tap to see if anything was in there causing the rise. Sounds to me like lack of wcs to bio load is the problem. You need to stick to a stricter regimen. Start with 50% wc weekly, don't miss a wc. When your nitrates lower to an acceptable range then you can continue with regular feeding. Once your nitrates are in check you should be able to determine the percentage of wcs and you should have no problems.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Do you have nitrates in your tap water?

There have been a couple of posts where nitrates did not decrease with water changes, and what we eventually found out was that they were so high at the beginning that later readings still pegged the maximum reading of the test.

What happens when you do a 75% water change?


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## metrov (Jun 27, 2011)

I usually only make a 25-30% water change. But I'll try 50% once a week EVERY week until I resolve the problem.

Also, I've tested my tap water and it has absolutely no nitrates.

I have been washing the fiber cloth filter with soap in the sink, or outside with the garden hose once a week. I didn't realize there was bacteria in the cloth that I need to preserve. If I rinse with the tank water, it wouldn't get as clean, but I'm getting the idea that absolute cleanliness of the cloth filter is not so important. Just rinse out the bulk of the dirt and put it back in?

Thanks so much for everyone's help!!!


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

metrov said:


> I have been washing the fiber cloth filter with soap in the sink, or outside with the garden hose once a week. I didn't realize there was bacteria in the cloth that I need to preserve. If I rinse with the tank water, it wouldn't get as clean, but I'm getting the idea that absolute cleanliness of the cloth filter is not so important. Just rinse out the bulk of the dirt and put it back in?


That's absolutely right, you just want to knock enough of the sludge off so the water flowing through is not impeded, not get it clean enough to eat off of. For cleaning my sponges and such I just use a 5 gallon bucket of tank water and squeeze it repeatedly until nothing else comes out of the sponge.


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## metrov (Jun 27, 2011)

Wow, okay, good to know. Thanks again!


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## lil_gold_ram (Mar 1, 2011)

Back to back water changes are sometimes the only way to get my nitrates down, by back to back I mean draining half the water, refilling and then draining half again and refilling, also I would use prime as a water conditioner, it helps make the nitrates less toxic. Also using a bucket of tank water to rinse your filter media off without killing the bacteria will help.


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## metrov (Jun 27, 2011)

"Prime." Ok, thanks again.[/quote]


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I have been washing the fiber cloth filter with soap in the sink


Don't ever use soap to clean the filter pads, etc.

Have you tested ammonia/nitrite? 60ppm nitrate shouldn't be killing fish.


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## metrov (Jun 27, 2011)

Ammonia/nitrite levels are excellent. All other levels are good, and with a 50% water change this weekend, the Nitrate level is finally in the safe zone as well. Thanks again for everyone's help.


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## Lombardo2nd (May 28, 2011)

Prime is some good s#%t! Keeps my water good and is crystal clear


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## hkntll (Jul 9, 2011)

You can add some useful bacterias to reduce nitrate rate.


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## metrov (Jun 27, 2011)

I've added some bacteria. Did another water change, this time adding PRIME. Wow, Nitrates are now lowest they've ever been. Wish I'd have known about it before, could have saved some fish. Thanks again for the tip.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Neither Prime nor nitrifying bacteria reduce nitrate levels. It's the water changes.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Lombardo2nd said:


> Prime is some good s#%t! Keeps my water good and is crystal clear


Prime is a dechlorinator. Something else deserves the credit for the clear water.


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## metrov (Jun 27, 2011)

Well it says, right on the PRIME label that it "Detoxifies Nitrite and Nitrate"

http://www.petco.com/product/7929/Seachem-Prime.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

I'm pretty convinced it worked because I've done so many water changes that I've lost count, but I never saw the nitrate levels drop as they did after adding Prime.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

metrov said:


> Well it says, right on the PRIME label that it "Detoxifies Nitrite and Nitrate"
> 
> http://www.petco.com/product/7929/Seachem-Prime.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch
> 
> I'm pretty convinced it worked because I've done so many water changes that I've lost count, but I never saw the nitrate levels drop as they did after adding Prime.


They claim it detoxes nitrite and nitrate, but that doesn't mean that they claim Prime removes it, just that it converts it to some non-toxic form. Whether it does actually detox or not is another issue, but the point is they're not claiming to 'remove' nitrate from aquarium water. Prime will not reduce nitrate levels. Water changes or some type of denitrification system are the only things that will do that.


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

I believe that prime does what it says to an extent (I use it myself as a dechlor and emergency additive), but have never been able to find the specifics about the actual mechanism it uses to "detoxify".

Most likely it binds the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate into less toxic nitrogenous compounds that Seachem claims still allow them to be accessable by your biological filter as nutrients. What I am worried about with using this as a solution to nitrates as opposed to an emergency type of produce to assist with a normal maintenance schedule is twofold.

1.) Are these new compounds really as accessable to the bacteria as they need to be and if used long term will prime cause your biological filter damage by selecting towards different types of nitrifiers that feed more effectively on the modified compounds and less effectively on the the basic forms of ammonia and nitrite?

2.) Are these modified compounds stable or will they decay back into base nitrates and if they are stable are they merely "less toxic" instead of "non-toxic".

Regardless I believe prime is a good product. As I said I use it myself as a basic dechlorinator and sometimes after thorough cleanings to lower the stress caused by a mini cycle if I have to swap out a deteriorated pad in my filter but I would not trust it as a substitute for good ol' maintenance and water changes. We human beings are lazy by nature and things that encourage you skip the water change until next week can be dangerous


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## metrov (Jun 27, 2011)

Understood. Thanks!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> but have never been able to find the specifics about the actual mechanism it uses to "detoxify".


And you won't. They even claim not to know how it works.



> What I am worried about with using this as a solution to nitrates as opposed to an emergency type of produce to assist with a normal maintenance schedule is twofold.


Nitrates aren't so toxic that you need to use a detox product to reduce the risk to fish. There's no emergency where nitrates are concerned. Ammonia and nitrite, sure, but not ntirates.

I prefer Ammolock, myself, because it doesn't include the 'slime coat stimulator'.


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## metrov (Jun 27, 2011)

As I reported earlier, all my other test strip levels were fine, perfect actually, except for the high nitrate level. Several of my fish died because, despite numerous water changes, the nitrate level would not come down. So if the nitrates didn't kill them, I wonder what did? They were all strong and healthy for years until the nitrate problem arose.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I have been washing the fiber cloth filter with soap in the sink, or outside with the garden hose once a week. I didn't realize there was bacteria in the cloth that I need to preserve.


Soap, brief spike of ammonia/nitrite that wasn't detected from aggressive filter cleanings. Those would be my guesses. There could be other reasons as well. 60ppm nitrate doesn't kill fish like what you experienced. It'd be more of a long term health risk.


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