# 55 gallon shellie set up.



## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Hi everyone,

First of all this is my first time to the forum. This is also my first time with African cichlids, so I am pretty new to it.

I bought four multies off aquabid and they should be arriving thursday.

My question is in a 55 gallon could I keep one maybe two other species of shell dwellers?

The tank setup is sand for substrate, with some scattered sandstone.
My ph naturally sits around 7.5 and thats what the owner keeps his fish at. Will my hardness be ideal? I dont have a hardness test.

Any tips you have for these little guys will be great ,but I have spent the last week researching them heavely so I feel pretty good about my knowledge of them.

Thanks 
Aaron


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

If its your first time with Africans I will recommend that you don't keep 2 species of shellies together in a tank that small.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Can I get a second opinion? I have been keeping fish for three years of various kinds. I am just new to Africans. The only differance I see in them is the water perimeters and the agression. I thought a 55gallon would be plenty for two species. I was thinking multies on one end and occies on the other since you can more or less position the fish where you want by the placement of shells.

If you all feel that I should stick with just the multies then that is what I wil do as I am sure you know more than me.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No matter how experienced you are, it would be "best practice" to keep one species of shellies per tank. Same advice for a 72" tank.

However, if you are a person who likes to test commonly accepted wisdom just in case it might be a myth, then as long as you have another tank ready for the second species, there is no problem with trying. 

My brevis are all over the 72" tank even though their shells are at one end. I even found one on the floor at the opposite end, it had been chased out of the tank and jumped even though the tank is covered.

If your sole interest is multiple species of shellies in one tank, I've heard with perfect aquascaping, I've heard of one person making this work one time: brevis in a couple of shells on an elevated platform at one end your tank, and add multies at the other end with at least 8" bare substrate in between. I think you also had to establish one group and add the others later, but I can't remember which was which.


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## Jago (Oct 5, 2007)

If you research shellies you'll see that one species per tank comes up very often.

Multies are great. Put down a lot of shells and let them have at it. Assuming you got young adult multis I'd guess you'll have 20+ multis in 6ish months.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks guys,

I have a spare twenty gallon up and running for emergencys. It stays cycled by some livebearers.

I thought about using strategically placed rocks to break up the line of sight. That coupled with putting them on opposite sides of the tank I thought it might would work.
Like I said I am just trying to learn so in the end I will go with what the majority of you say. I just wanted to let you know my game plan if i was going to try it.

Thanks 
Aaron


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

You can keep other Tanganyikans in with shellies in a 55 gallon, but in a tank of that size, it is best practise to just keep one species of shellie.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

ok guys.

I will just stick with multies.

Thank you for all your answers. I like how yall answered and then told me why.
I think I am going to really benefit from this forum.

Thank you.
Aaron


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

I have a tank with 180cms x 70cms x 70cms with 6 shelldwellers species running for almost 2 years, but I can't recommend it. I think that altough I did whatever I could to make it work, I was also lucky. During the first times I was constantly tweeking the shells positions.

Lots of Vallisnerias and rockwork defining different areas help. Sand hills help, because they don't see each other much.

I have Multies, Meleagris, Brevis, Altolamprologus Sumbu, Caudopunctatus and Boulengeri (this is the most difficult species to fit in). It works and they don't get into fights often. But there are lots of other fish too, including a large colony of Buescheris and 3 larger fish that are there because I don't have any other place for them.

You should also take care with hybrids. My male Sumbu left his female for a female boulengeri.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Wow, I bet that tank is so fun to watch. I really thought it would be no problem with just two species.

I mean seems like with large rocks in the tank they wouldent see eatchother that much. If multies started on one side and lets say meleagris on the other would the two species not slow down the expanding of eatchother? They would eat eachothers fry so that would have to slow them down a good bit.

man, I wana try it so bad.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Only one way to learn sometimes.  opcorn:

Open substrate has proven a better barrier for shellies than rocks or plants. 6-8".


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

That being said I have a 75 with 3 species of shellies in it. 1 species is a facultative shell spawner rather than a true shell dweller.


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## football mom (Feb 19, 2006)

Why not shellies on one end, and Julis, or other small rock dwellers on the other?


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

Whatever species of shelldwellers you keep, you can count on one thing: Multies' fry will have a much higher survival rate than any of the other species because they live with their parents almost until they are adults, unlike all other shellies I know, with the exception of Similis.

Give the Multies a shellbed with 2 or 3 layers of shells on one corner and scatter shells all over on the other side. The other side can have plants, hills of sand or rocks separating small territories for the other species.

Also, don't give the Multies a larger shellbed than what they can protect. If someone else decides to ocupy an area of the shellbed, most likely, Multies won't be able to chase them away.

Leave a good open area of sand betwwen the Multies area and the next shells.

Other fish like a not too nasty species of rockdwellers, help, I guess. Cyprichromis are also a must in a large shelldweller tank. I also think that having 2 or 3 really big but harmless fish, help, because the shellies will tend to stay more in their territories intead of exploring. In my case these were a couple of homeles Protomelas and a Parrot fish.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Ok im going off subject here ,but maybe there is another way to get what I want in a tank without having multiple species of shellies.

I like how multies claim a territory, guard it, breed in it, basically how they own it. I also like the fact that they interact with eatchother like the male protecting his females.

What other fish will exhibit this same behavior? I Just want three species of fish that each of there little piece of the tank. I dont like watching fish just swim around randomly. I like interactions.

What are some ideal tank mates that I would find interesting? Do julis interact with one another and set up a territory?

Hope you guys can help me
Aaron


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## Wvack (Aug 31, 2008)

Julie's are great... but I've heard they can be a bit nasty towards shellies...

Calvus/compressiceps I like aswell... you could place some rocks on one side and shells on the other...

I'm not sure if the tank is big enough for any of the open-water cichlids, that would be perfect as the third speciesif the tank is big enough... some wise tang-freak will probably be able to tell you that :lol:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Multies are pretty unique in forming a colony. But lots of tangs (most?) will defend a territory. Especially once they start spawning.

My caudos own a cave and defend a territory for their spawns.

My leleupi, juli's and calvus are too young yet.

Shellies other than multies do not really form colonies either.


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

I think you can't get what you want with just shellies, because Multies and Similis are the only species that have this complex social behaviour, and you shouldn't mix them, because you'll get hybrids.

Buescheri are very interesting fish and mine live as a colony, very very tightly connected to the rock area. But they are very unpredictable fish in what concerns behaviour.

A long time ago, for some unknown reason, a trio of Buescheri decided that they wanted to eliminate the Multies out of the face of the Earth. I had to protect the Multies with a net around the colony. But the Buescheris didn't give up. They started to dig furiously outside the net to find a way in. And they were diging in an open sand area, far away from their rocks. Very strange fish, but great for people who like to watch interesting behaviours. They don't swim around as much as the Julies and they don't breed uncontrollably like Brichardi.

Here's a suggestion:

- Multies, Buescheri and Cyprichromis (and you can try to have another shellie (ocellatus or brevis) living close to the Buescheri, but be prepared to move them out of the tank if things don't work).

You can have a large Multie city, a couple of small villages and even isolated shells. You'll have a chance to watch very different behaviours depending on the size of the shellbed.

Buescheris normally rear 3 to 5 fry at a time and mine stay with their parents till very late. My female visits the male territory, but he isn't allowed in hers. I've seen them have huge fights, but they manage to make up.

Cyprichromis are also fun to watch and have a well defined hierarchy and this way you would have 3 very different species in what concerns behaviours.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Ardeus I think you understood me perfectly  =D> . I will research your suggestions.

If anyone else has something similar to suggest please do.

I would rather do something like this and just skip trying multiple shellie species. I dont want to create a incompatible enviroment.

Thank YOU :thumb:


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

What types of Buescheri and Cyprichromis :-?


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

Buescheri Kamakonde are the most colourful of them.

In what concens Cyprichromis, go for the smaller species, leptosoma utinta or leptosoma mpulungu.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

So different Buescheri are basically just different colors?

I dont really like colorful fish. I prefer the natural looking brown, black, and white colors.


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

Yes, they are the same species, just different populations.

Mine are the darkest of all I think, they're refered as Congo or Tembwe II.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Just out of curiosity are there any other species you would reccomend ardeus?


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

In a 55G I would still go with another shellie beyond the Multies. Brevis is the safer bet.

But since you don't like fish swimming all over the place (I don't like it at all neither), maybe a couple of Eretmodus?

A couple of altolamprologus compressisseps "Sumbu" shell are also great.

So here goes a suggestion:

For the rocks:

- A couple of Buescheri
- A couple of Eretmodus

For the scattered shells:

- A couple of Altolamprologus compressisseps "Sumbu"
- A couple of Brevis

For the open area:

- Around 10 Cyprichromis leptosoma

For the shellbed:

- Multies

There you are  Endless hours of watching fish behaviour and you can cut your cable tv costs.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Dude, you are the man. I am going to do a little research on some of these guys and let you know what I decide. But really you are awsome =D> =D> =D>

I probably wont get all of them because another one of my things is I like to be understocked. I dont know why ,but I cant stand having a packed tank.

I finally got understood lol. Other forums people thought I wanted to see fish fight or something....

Ready to set this tank up and watch my personal 4ft of lake tanganyika! opcorn:


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Ardeus I know Im killing you man ,but I have kind of fallen for julis. Too much if I go with Buescheri,julis,Cyprichromis leptosoma, and multies?

Can I go with less Cyprichromis leptosoma? maybe cut it down to 6? I dont have to have the colorful males as I have told you I love the natural look.

Sorry to keep at you like this ,but we see eye to eye on what I am looking for


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

No problem Ahud  I'm also setting up a new tank and I think I'll end up with something similar to your tank, but a bit bigger.

Yes, I think I understand what you want, and it's then same I want.

I'm fed up with tanks where fish seem trapped. A big fish will make any tank look small, no matter the size of the tank.

The same goes for fish that can swim from on side of the tank to the other in a few seconds. They make the tank look like a prison. That's why I think I will never have Tropheus and even gave up on the idea of having Ophthalmotilapias or Cyathopharynx.

So fish that don't want to go anywhere, are the answer. I currently have a tank with 117"x27"x27" and I'm sure none of the multies has the slightest idea about what's going on on the opposite side of the tank. The same goes for the Buescheri.

I was thinking about having Julies and Buescheri at the same time too, but I gave up on the idea. They both want to live in the rocks but Julies move around more and breed much faster. Believe me, Buescheri are your fish.

As for Cyprichromis, they tend to school more together when in groups of, let's say, over 20... and if they have larger fish in the tank.

So, you can have a smaller group of one or 2 males and 4 or 5 females. But they really appreciate being in a group. And they're fun to watch in smaller groups because they become more territorial, even if their territory is just an area of just water.

The group of species I suggested makes a very interesting tank, but you need to be very carefull when preparing the layout of the tank.

Leave a "no man's land" between the Multies and the rest of the tank. Just a large open sandy area.

When choosing the shells for the Multies, take care not to use really large shells, because that may attract other fish to the Multies area. A Sumbu (or even a Buescheri) has no problems in living in a Multie colony, if it finds a shell large enough to fit in. And don't give them a shell bed larger than they can defend. But if you can, make a shell bed with 2 or 3 layers of shells.

Lots of small crevices between rocks for the Buescheri on the other side of the tank.

One warning about Buescheri. They seem to have very different moods according to pH. Couples seem to break up and make up with pH changes.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Sounds like this is going to be a really fun tank. I will take you word on the julis and just go with the buescheri.

I am kind of disapointed in the pricing of these fish.  They are pretty expensive. I am a freshman in college so money is not exactly availiable to spend on fish(parents got mad when I spent twenty bucks for fish).

Last but not least ten cyprichromis seems like it would be packing my 55gallon. You sure they would do ok with that many?

Cant wait to get this thing up and running and let you know how its going. 
How far have you got with your tank?


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

ahud said:


> What other fish will exhibit this same behavior? I Just want three species of fish that each of there little piece of the tank. I dont like watching fish just swim around randomly. I like interactions.
> 
> Aaron


You, my friend, are in luck . The behavior you've described are the coolest thing about tanganyikans, imho. Even a die-hard tang fanatic will usually admit that there are prettier malawi fish (or at least, more colorful), but the fascinating thing about tangs is their behavior. Almost any of the rock-dwelling substrate spawners will behave in the fashion you described... stake out some territory, and defend their mate (and often their young... to a point). You just have to be careful because some of them (L. Brichardi, most notoriously) will decide to claim the entire 55gallon tank as their territory .

Best of luck, and enjoy Lake Tanganyika!

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who would put multies, julies, a pair of gobies, and a school of cyprichromis in a 55gallon tank)


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

Can't you get someone to give you a few of them? You'll end up enjoying the tank much longer if you put the fish little by little, as long as you put them more or less in the order weakest - strongest.

My tank is taking a little longer than I expected, but the glasses are going in place on 5th Sept.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Im not sure if I could get someone to give me the fish. In this Hobby its all about the money. 
I will just have to hope for some cash christmas and for my birthday.

Well hope your tank comes together soon.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

oh and rick thanks for that bit of information. You just washed away any second guesses at doing a tang tank.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

*Ardeus*

So how hard is building a tank like that? Could you give me a basic summary or some litature I could start looking into?


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

A friend gave me 3 big glasses and I decided to use them.

There's not much to it. I just had to build the concrete frame for the glasses.


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## jrh (Sep 4, 2007)

I'm also in the planning stages for a 55g multie / community tank, and based on some other messages, it sounds like I can basically have 3 habitats -- shellbed, rockpile, and open water. So I'm thinking of the following:

Neolamprologus multifasciatus (6)
Julidochromis transcriptus "gombi" (how many?)
Cyprichromis leptosoma (how many?)
So, my first question is how many transcriptus and leptosoma should I get? Are leptosoma one of the smallest Cyprichromis? Should I get Paracyps instead?

My second is about the hardscape... am I better off having one end be a rockpile (all the way up, maybe using silicone to keep it from falling apart), and the other end of the tank reserved for a shellbed? I like to pile up the shells, but that still seems like it'd make the tank lopsided.

Or can I have rockpiles on both ends framing a shellbed in the middle?

Would anything change if I ended up getting similis instead of multies?

I've kept multies before, but none of the others.

Thanks in advance,
James


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## Jago (Oct 5, 2007)

ahud, stop looking at tangs in pet stores and start looking for local aquarium societies. At one of my local aquarium society's auctions I picked up 12 julie. transcriptus for $6 (that's $.50 each for the math challenged). Also though a local cichlid website I got in touch with a guy who sold me juvie cyp. lepstosoma "utinta" for $5 each. Multies in a pet store by me sell for $20 each, from people in the area that have them, $3-$5 each. You get the point


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I tried a google search and I cannot find any clubs in my area. I live in South carolina, about an hour and a half from eatch Columbia and Charlotte.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Go the Links in the menu and search for clubs. I drive an hour to my club.


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

James: That's an excelent combination that can't go wrong. Just a couple of Julies will do, because they will breed easily. The Cyps leptosoma are the smallest ones (2 or 3 trios will do). The Paracyps are bigger, but they tend to stay closer to the rocks and are more timid.


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## jrh (Sep 4, 2007)

Also, any suggestions for algae cleanup detail? I'll probably have some wood and fern in addition to rocks, shells, and sand.

I figure MTS is a possibility, but I'd rather consider alternatives first.


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## football mom (Feb 19, 2006)

I have the Malaysian Trumpet Snails in my Multi colony. They do a great job of picking up any
bits of food that falls in amongst the shells and doesn't get eaten. So far they have not overpopulated in that tank, the only tank I have that I routinely have to remove snails is the demasoni tank, for some reason. I just vacuum a bunch out when do water changes.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

hey Ardeus,

Been doing some serious thinking about our set up. How long term will my tank be? Will I have alot of extra fry I have to get rid of?

Do any of you guys sell fish? Where do I learn to package them? where do I buy the packaging equipment? I would like to put some affordable fish out there. Maybe put some fish up for shipping cost plus two or three dollars on aquabid.

Thanks fellows and ladies for all the input so far.

Ardeus I had a dream about your tank your putting together.......I dident wana wake up..... :drooling: :drooling:


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

Hi, you'll have 2 species that will breed a lot (if they start breeding): Multies and Buescheri. Their fry stay with their parents till late and don't get caught easily.

But Buescheri usually have small batches of fry, sometimes even 3 ou 4 at a time and they grow slowly.


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## Jago (Oct 5, 2007)

ahud said:


> hey Ardeus,
> 
> Been doing some serious thinking about our set up. How long term will my tank be? Will I have alot of extra fry I have to get rid of?
> 
> ...


If you really want to sell multies don't use real snail shells for them, use pvc elbows and caps. Makes catching them a breeze. As far as shipping fish that's easy. The hardest part is getting the courage to do it imo. There's lots of info on how to ship on the aquabid forums. I made a little over $200 selling my similis this summer. That $200 is after expenses and I don't charge for shipping.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

hmmm from your experience what is more interesting? Pairs of rockdwellers or multiple singles?

I am still racking my brain over my 55 gallon setup. While I have a general idea (from Ardeus) of what I want, I want to make sure that is what best suites me.

I read that alot of agression comes out when fish pair up, so could I have a fair amount of diversity in the rock section of my tank by keeping singles?


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## Ardeus (Oct 17, 2005)

Only of they are all of the same gender, and that is difficult to assure. If you have unpaired fish, it's very likely that they are going to look for a partner of other species.

When are you going to put fish inside the tank? Remember that it's a good idea to stock your tank slowly. Every couple of months put some new fish. You'll enjoy it much more and you can have a feel of what the tank needs and what it can support, according to the fish that are already there.

It's a safer road and you will end up enjoying for much more time.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

The tank only has five multies in it. They are all still young so I am going to let them grow up and get there numbers up a little bit before I add to the tank.

I pretty much have always stocked my tank slow. I like to make sure the fish are adjusted before adding anything that might increase stress. The multies seem to be right at home already. 

Like I said all the questions here are just to try and get a feel for what my options are. I have been reading a ton ,but I am still new to tangs.

Ardeus I am not sure cyps are going to be an option. To be blunt I cant aford them. I have yet to find a club within four hours of me. I still want a tank that is no where near the fish capacity but still interesting, so its a dificult decision.


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