# planted aquarium tips and help



## summerboy1958 (Dec 23, 2011)

After an abortive attempt at malawi cichlids (my lack of research and LFS lack of knowledge), I'm switching my 30 gallon to SA dwarfs. I decided to go with live plants (I Really love the look of a healthy, heavily planted aquarium) and purchased a new glass top and a coralife T5 lamp (6,700k and colormax bulbs). I have 20 pounds of 20 pounds of ECO complete plant substrate and 20 pounds of #1 gravel mixed together.

I purchased a number of swords, a few dwarf crypst and several vallisneria. My LFS didn't think I needed any additives beyond the ECO. I have 3 Oto's (planning on 2 more) and about a dozen silver tipped tetras as dithers. I'm waiting for the cichlids until I am sure my tank has settled down. I'll get either an apisto trio or 2 pairs of bolivian rams (if I can ever find them around here).

Last week I noticed that my plants were looking a little ratty on the ends (swords and vallisneria). I went back to my LFS to ask about that and get a few more plants to get a better floor coverage. I spoke to one of the younger staff at the LFS and he indicated that my lighting was not good enough for swords (under 2watts per gallon (41 watts for a 30 gallon)). That the Aqualight was a low output light. He suggested that I get some different plants. I had seen recommendations in this forum for water sprite, wisteria and the like. he indicated that they were suitable for low output lighting, so I purchased a few bunches. I really like the look with the new plants. I also bought some Seachem excel on the chance that there is not enough carbon in the water. My nitrates have settled out at 15 with no water changes in 2 weeks.

Here are my questions:

1. Should I have skipped the swords (they won't thrive?). Should I expect them to die?

2. Do I need the excel? If so, how often and how much? Do I need any other additives to help get the plants going? If so, what kind and how much (my LFS has Seachem).

3. Do I need to do water changes even though my nitrates are stable?

Any other helpful hints would be appreciated.

Thanks!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

summerboy1958 said:


> 1. Should I have skipped the swords (they won't thrive?). Should I expect them to die?


Swords are often raised emersed. When you plant them in your tank, they lose all their emersed leaves and grow new immersed leaves. Maybe that is what you are seeing? Vals and swords do like a little more light, but T5's are stronger than the watts per gallon the LFS is measuring by. That rule worked for T8's...T5's have more light per watt.



summerboy1958 said:


> 2. Do I need the excel? If so, how often and how much? Do I need any other additives to help get the plants going? If so, what kind and how much (my LFS has Seachem).


Excel is a brand name...it's the only kind unless you go with chemical equivalents not available at fish stores. It can definitely help, but may damage the vallisneria. Some dose at half strength until the vallisneria acclimates.



summerboy1958 said:


> 3. Do I need to do water changes even though my nitrates are stable?


Yes. As soon as you add fish your nitrates will no longer be stable. And nitrates is not the only toxin you remove when you do water changes. But with plants, you need to keep them over 10ppm or supplement with fertilizer.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

summerboy1958 said:


> 1. Should I have skipped the swords (they won't thrive?). Should I expect them to die?


I wouldn't have bought numerous swords to start with, they are heavy on nutrients. One of these to start with would have been better. Did you trim the roots and outter leaves before you planted? That always helps them adjust quicker.


summerboy1958 said:


> 2. Do I need the excel? If so, how often and how much? Do I need any other additives to help get the plants going? If so, what kind and how much (my LFS has Seachem).


Excel is Liquid CO2, you can get an API version also. I would suggest looking into CO2 injection rather then liquid co2 with a proper planted tank. If you do insist on using excel or API liquid co2, You need to remove air bubblers from the tank, they will gas off the excess co2 fast (the liquid co2). I would suggest root tabs for the swords, they are heavy root feeders. A powder based plant fert along with the root tabs is best. The liquid ferts gets very expensive.


summerboy1958 said:


> 3. Do I need to do water changes even though my nitrates are stable?


As DJR said you need water changes weekly at any rate. When using ferts it is recommended to do water changes to remove excess trace elements caused by small inaccuracies in dosing.


summerboy1958 said:


> Any other helpful hints would be appreciated.


Look up about DIY Yeast method CO2 inject, its cheap and realiable and not a lot of work.
Look up about C02/KH/PH relationship, this will help you determine your co2 until you buy a test kit for it.
Regularly remove algae (weekly normally) from the leaves of the large leaf plants, until the tank is established.
Look for damaged or dying leaves and remove them, research how to do this for the specific plant.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Nodalizer said:


> Excel is Liquid CO2, you can get an API version also. I would suggest looking into CO2 injection rather then liquid co2 with a proper planted tank. If you do insist on using excel or API liquid co2, You need to remove air bubblers from the tank, they will gas off the excess co2 fast (the liquid co2).


I think the above information about Excel is incorrect. Here's what Seachem's website says about Excel:



> Q: Will an airstone or surface agitation decrease the effectiveness of Excel as it would decrease the effectiveness of CO2 injection?? What effect would an airstone/agitation have on Excel's effective CO2 levels?
> 
> A: An air stone or other surface agitation will not impact the effectiveness of Flourish Excel. Flourish Excel is not CO2, it is simply a readily available source of carbon. This is an intermediate source and more readily available than CO2 and will not interfere with the uptake of CO2 as a carbon source.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Leave *Nodalizer*
Excel is not liquid co2. Its liquid carbon. Think sugar water, not co2

. *summerboy1958*, swords were a fine choice. They will outgrow that tank andd yyou may regret adding them but I have grown swords with jusst a 20w t8 lamp. Don't chop leaves off. Let the plannt finish rooting and it will start to grow.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

> Leave Nodalizer


Whats that meant to mean? You want me to leave the forum? Bit harsh, but ok if you wish.

Below quote from seachem website:
I mightn't have clarified myself correctly, but it is indeed a replacement for CO2 by the use of carbon. It acts like a liquid CO2 I guess I should have said.



> Q: Is Flourish Excel a replacement for CO2 in a planted aquarium?
> 
> A: Yes and no. It provides the same benefit as CO2, i.e. it provides the plants with a source of carbon for growth just as CO2 provides them with carbon. However CO2 by itself will give you quantitatively more growth than Excel by itself, although Excel does provide a substantial amount in comparison. If CO2 is a 10, Excel is a 6-7. Using both together provides additional benefit. One of the advantages of the Excel is no up front equipment costs and complexity of valves, hoses and regulators, etc.


As for the bubbling effect I was talking about. I have experienced it first hand, don't believe everything the ads tell you. I worked in a water products lab for many years and we tested the effects of aeration on organic carbon and it did reduce the ppm significantly.

Quote from seachem admin (highlighted key part)


> Thanks for the question and I apologize for the confusion with regard to these two posts. The answer is that with typical aquarium aeration/agitation, and the recommended dosage amount of Flourish Excel, there *should not* be any impact on the efficacy of the active ingredient in the product. If we were to have a more highly concentrated version of Flourish Excel and the amount of the active ingredient going into the aquarium was much higher, there would be more potential for this to occur if excessive agitation was present. Hope this clears up the confusion.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Nodalizer said:


> > Leave Nodalizer
> 
> 
> Whats that meant to mean? You want me to leave the forum? Bit harsh, but ok if you wish.


I am so sorry!!! Autocorrect!


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Oh... thats ok, it kept me up a bit last night going through past posts to see how I upset you. I don't like conflict, even in an online sense. I'm glad it was a mistake, its all good.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Cell phone autocorrects. :lol:


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## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

Something you are neglecting to think about with your plant selection and putting them in a cichlid tank is the PH. Most plants do not tolerate high ph well, they like slightly acid water better with most topping out at a ph of 7.4 . I had the same thing happen with different plants where they were pretty when put in the tank but after two weeks were dying off . The one species I can recommend is wisteria. Of all the plants in my tank those are growing strong and the cichlids love to swim through them. Anachris was also okay except the fish eat it so fast that it doesn't have a chance. It is much more challenging to have plants in a cichlid tank than other tropical tanks. The cichlids dig them up, they destroy them with their large bodies during fights, the water conditions aren't ideal, etc. I still prefer them to plastic or silk plants and they contribute to the water quality.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

cgmark said:


> Most plants do not tolerate high ph well, they like slightly acid water better with most topping out at a ph of 7.4


My pH is 7.8 and I have luck with anubias, crypts, swords and vallisneria as well as wisteria.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

My PH is 8.2 in my mbuna tank and had the same plants do well. Not so well with my cichlids thou some of them found some tasty heh.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

My pH is also 8.2 and my anubias do okay (especially the larger leafed species).


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## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> cgmark said:
> 
> 
> > Most plants do not tolerate high ph well, they like slightly acid water better with most topping out at a ph of 7.4
> ...


Plants can live in higher ph waters but it isn't ideal , as the ph increases it becomes harder for the roots to process nutrients. I know someone who grows plants exclusively and have seen the difference that ph makes. His tanks thrive on nothing but potting soil and water and use old style incandescent tube lighted hoods , to get the same results in a cichlid tank I had to change substrates, increase lighting, and add co2. The higher ph really complicated things.


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## Z90a (Sep 25, 2011)

in my experiance swords are pretty hardy. ints almost imposible to determin the exact strain of sword. if you have a amazon sword or a brizilian sword they should be fine. interesting you went with eco complete. i have dirted tanks which is organic dirt with gravel capped. 
for the rams i have 4 in my 30 gallon. they are more interesting in groups of 3 or more. 
if you might be interested in dirting a tank pm me. and check out dustinsfishtanks on youtube


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## summerboy1958 (Dec 23, 2011)

Thanks for all the input!!

I tested my water today prior to doing a water change and was surprised by the fact my nitrates were only about 5. I didn't do a water change last week due to time and expected it to be up.

There is some green algae growing and a search for my otos revealed only 1. I purchased a bushy nose from my LFS.

Is it likely that my plants combined with the algae is soaking up the nitrates? The only fish that I am missing right now are my apisto trio that I am still trying to source. In the tank are 11 silver tipped tetras, 1 oto and the new pleco.

Do I need to supplement? Or just wait for the pleco to get rid of the algae?

Here were my water readings:

pH - 7.0
Nitrites - 0
Ammonia - 0
Nitrates - 5
hardness - 105


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## Z90a (Sep 25, 2011)

well plecos are often bought to eat algae if they are over 3 inches they tend not to eat it very much. the key to a planted tank in trying not to use additives to destroy algae. just whipe it off the glass. maybe tone down lighting that or you might not have enough plants. using eco complete and other simular substraights are packed with nutrients if not enough plants then algae can thrive. lighting if using t5s id start with 6 hous of light a day and slowly work it up to your desired amount. 3 hours then a 5 hour dark period then 3 more hours is what i do when starting a new tank. a light timer is your best friend lol


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have to keep nitrates at or above 10ppm on my planted tanks...even if I have to supplement.


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