# Sump design opinons



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

Here is my design idea. Any advice will be appreciated.


----------



## WhitzEnd (May 2, 2011)

roke28 said:


> Here is my design idea. Any advice will be appreciated.


That looks pretty good. Seems like the refugium / wet/dry combo is catching on.

I assume that your water inlet is through the bio ball chamber?

What size are you planning on the sump being?


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

I have a 30 gallon my main tank is a 75. I'm not to sure if I need the refugium I just didn't know what else to use the extra space for.


----------



## lexi73 (May 2, 2008)

hahah, problem of too much space! thats kinda funny.

I've got a current setup where the water drains from the tank directly onto the drip tray for my Bio, and thats what i hate most about it! I've put a filter pad on top of the drip tray, but it is still VERY LOUD! I will say that thats on my display tank, and it's in my living room, so noise is a concern for me. If i were you, use some of the extra space that you are not sure what to do with as an input for the drain... it can be as simple extending the inlet into the sump so it's below the water level, then have that drain into the drip tray for the bio, should save a lot of noise.


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

lexi73 said:


> hahah, problem of too much space! thats kinda funny.
> 
> I've got a current setup where the water drains from the tank directly onto the drip tray for my Bio, and thats what i hate most about it! I've put a filter pad on top of the drip tray, but it is still VERY LOUD! I will say that thats on my display tank, and it's in my living room, so noise is a concern for me. If i were you, use some of the extra space that you are not sure what to do with as an input for the drain... it can be as simple extending the inlet into the sump so it's below the water level, then have that drain into the drip tray for the bio, should save a lot of noise.


 I came across your sump idea a couple threads down it looks good. Do I need a filter sock in the first chamber like yours or can I just leave it open?


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

Does this design look alittle better?


----------



## lexi73 (May 2, 2008)

well socks are somewhat of a preference, and it does increase the complexity of the design a bit. The problem with a wet/dry is that solid materials (Fish Food, Poo, Etc...) get stuck in the bio media, and increase nitrates. Thus why many people dont like a wet/dry, but if you filter out as much of the solid before it hits the drip tray, it will surely help. So in my case, i've got the room and i figure it's worth the benefit, even if the return could be somewhat small.

If you do go for socks, read that thread that you found my image, and Whitzend started. See that you need to design a backup incase the socks get clogged the water will flow over the sock wall and into the drip tray. Just a good security measure.

Speaking of security measures, the new layout looks ok... Start with the first wall being the highest point, and each section should be no higher than the first section. So your middle wall of the bubble trap that looks like it goes to the top is a no-no, just because it might become a blockage. It's probably rare that that would ever happen or really matter overall, but if it did it would either starve your pump of water and burn it out, overflow the sump onto the floor, or both (hypothetically it depends on a few factors or water height, pump flow, and the amount of water in the plumbing. Regardless its something to think about). The solution could be to just put a wall in the middle so that if it did get blocked, water could flow over top too. it's just a security measure to ensure as long as your pumps getting water to the tank that water comes back to the sump.

The walls look tall, so your water lever is going to be somewhat high, how much water comes back into the sump when you unplug the sump? You'll want to give it enough room to fill and not overflow. Make the bubble trap about half the height of the wet/dry tower, then the middle wall of the bubble trap should be a few inches taller then the first and last wall of the trap.

Sorry for the ramble....hope it helps somewhat.


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks alot that really helps. I plan on starting the project tonight fingers crossed  I'll post pics before I start siliconing and see what you think. Thanks again


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

So, This is the revised idea. Does this look okay?


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

bump


----------



## limpert (Aug 28, 2007)

I like the design this guy went with:


----------



## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Your design looks great, I just have one suggestion. Bio balls are most effective when the water drizzles over them, not when they're totally submerged. So with this design about half of the bio balls will be submerged which really brings down their efficiency. I suggest altering the design so that more of them are not submerged.


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

Okay, Thanks for the advice. I have already started the project but it shouldn't be to hard to raise the bio chamber. To do that I just need to raise the bottom of the chamber? So, that it's higher then the refugium?


----------



## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

roke28 said:


> Okay, Thanks for the advice. I have already started the project but it shouldn't be to hard to raise the bio chamber. To do that I just need to raise the bottom of the chamber? So, that it's higher then the refugium?


That's correct. 
or leave the bio-ball chamber the same size, but make the rest of the walls shorter!
By raising the bioballs, you will be taking away from the total biological filtration.

So make all the walls, after the bioballs, shorter


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

That might be tough I already siliconed the baffles :-?


----------



## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

Well then do whatever you gotta do!


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

Yea, Hopefully it'll workout :-? Can I try maybe a K1 moving bed filter in that chamber?


----------



## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

Lack of knowledge on my part about the moving bed. 
Somebody else jump in?


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

So, instead Of Bio Balls I want to try K1 media. This is what I had in mind.








Does this design look okay?


----------



## ABFish (Oct 27, 2011)

Do you plan to have an automatic refill system? If not, then I would be concerned with the small amount of room you are leaving for evaporation. Remember, the only area of a sump that will see the water level drop is your return pump chamber. You run the risk of running your pump dry if you don't keep an eye on it. I would seriously consider lowering the baffles between your pump and refugium.

I have a 75 gallon tank and 29 gallon sump. I know that your overflow skimmer level and syphon break holes are variables which determine how much water stays in the main tank during a power outage. For my system, I get 5-6 gallons of sump volume differential between the system running and powered off.


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks for the input. How much lower do the baffles need to be then?


----------



## ABFish (Oct 27, 2011)

That is really something for you to take into account what you want to use the refugium for, what concerns do you think are of greatest importance, and how often you want to have to refill the sump. I read another thread on here one time where two guys were arguing that exact point. One guy said the pump chamber wall should be as high as possible so that your pump can't overflow your tank if your drain line clogs. Another guy was of the belief that your pump chamber wall should be as low as possible for evaporation issues. I just happen to fall in line with the second opinion. The clogging issue is easily solved by having two overflow lines, each big enough to handle my total drainage needs on its own, if one ever gets blocked. I personally don't bother to have any baffles in my sump after the filter media. Just having a pump intake screen (very coarse sponge filter) is working for me.


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

Yea, It's kind of a tough call. What I might try is to just lower the Baffles. I'm with you I'm not to worried about the system clogging just evaporation. Do you have any experience in K1 filter media. Trying to get some opinons about my first chamber before I move forward.


----------



## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

I just finished my first sump project, I can second the trial and error you should complete to dial this in. I played with a 20G marine sump on a 100G that I got off CL, the sump came with it, so I figured why not.

Well, I am using a large pump to return the sump water to the main tank through UGJs, powering 9 jets with a 4 foot head, so it's a Mag 24. I am using a 1.5 inch return line. There's therefore a LOT of water in my lines. The other end of my issue with the large pump was keeping enough water in the sump so the Mag didn't suck air. I could make it work, but there was about an inch of space left for water if I unplugged the sump pump and let it all drain. Not much room for error, and with some evaporation from that small sump and I would suck air anyway. The sweet spot was only a couploe gallons, so I figured that I needed a larger tank for the sump.

In the end, I found a 60G long tank on CL for $40, I made it into a sump with 15G bio balls in one end and about 2.5 feet of open tank for a fuge if I ever want it after the bio balls. Probably not, though, because I just put the pump in the middle to maximize the water around it for sound purposes. Not too refuge like with that pump sucking.


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

Can you post any pics of your return pump going to the UGJ? I considered that idea but I didn't know where to start. I to have a large return pump going into a 75 gallon aquairum with only 4 UGJs. So, I don't know if it'll work for me.


----------



## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

Sure.



















Here's what it looks like in the fish room










I didn't want ANY equipment visible in my in wall build, so I kept increasing the pump until it did what I wanted.

The only pump in the whole system is a Mag 24, it feeds 9 jets at the bottom, with 2 sihpon break holes that get auto checked every time I close the valve to do a water change. I use the same pump to empty the sump into the nearby drain for water changes, and to mix and heat the new water after water changes, before I open the valve to the main tank and close the secondary valve to the 1 inch line for draining and mixing.

EDIT--the photos are a mix of prototype and installation shots, I painted the PVC black before I installed it the last time. Most of them and my thoughts on why I did what I did are on my thread :

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=235293

I would be more than happy to walk you through anything or answer any questions, just shoot me a PM.


----------



## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

That looks sweet. I need to check what size of pump I have and the GPH. Then maybe I can just run it threw the UGJs. My current UGJs are 1/2 tubing with only 4 jets pushed by a Mag 1200. So, I'll definitly need to bulk up. Thanks for the help. I'll PM for questions :thumb:


----------



## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

OK, I played with a Mag 12, it came with my sump setup.

First, Mag pumps all are rated with 1.5 inch outlets, without that large an outlet, and I know it seems huge, but you will get used to it, anyway, it will blow your GPH way up when you step up.

Also, try 3/4 diameter for the ugjs, again, it will vastly increase your flow rates for pennies, literally, WAY cheaper than a new $100 + pump.

My system is 1 1/2 inch from the pump outlet to the elbow inside the tank, then it is 3/4 for all the jets.

Try that change, upsize the outlet and jets, and you may find the 12 is all you need. My 24 is pressing 9 jets.

Lastly, I know my hard plumbed system looks very neat, but i had to add a foot of soft tubing to isolate the pump from the plumbing, the noise was driving me crazy. So factor that into any final design.


----------

