# Is he really an Ahli?



## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

I can't complain because I got him super cheap(1 cent!) but I just am not sure if he really is a Ahli. He came from a LPS and was in a tank by himself and they said that they hadn't seen one that dark but they figured he was dark because he was next to a VERY bright blue one and he just was too afraid to show his colors......

So, is he really a Electric Blue Ahli?? And if he is, how do I get him to brighten up? Or can I? Would females help?

Here are some pics of him....


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

Is it possible he is a Copadichromis azureus??


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## rarefaction (Aug 6, 2009)

I like him dark like that!
And your lighting looks fine...(I saw your other thread) 8)


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## PaulineMi (Apr 3, 2008)

Mine looks like that too........I'm thinking mine's a female even thought it was sold to me as a male. :-? Too bad we're so far apart. We could "experiment" to see who colors up. :lol: How old is yours? Mine's about 6 months old.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

MCKP said:


> Is it possible he is a Copadichromis azureus??


No!

The reason I think it is dark is because they are hormoned for artificial male color, then the color wears off and the can look really dark.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

As above, they are hormoned fish that are either Sciaenochromis fryeri, or hybrids of the same.


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

PaulineMi said:


> Mine looks like that too........I'm thinking mine's a female even thought it was sold to me as a male. :-? Too bad we're so far apart. We could "experiment" to see who colors up. :lol: How old is yours? Mine's about 6 months old.


Wow, it really does look like mine. I am not sure how old he is.... He is about 3- 3 1/2 inches... We just got him from the pet store, they didn't say how old he was.

What does it mean that they are hormoned? Does that mean they will never color up?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

MCKP said:


> What does it mean that they are hormoned? Does that mean they will never color up?


They were fed a food, or were actually injected with a steroid to increase their colour. They could be females, in which case, no they will not colour.


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

WOW. I did not know the did that..... nice. How can I tell if it is a male or female now?


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

NOT nice you should say.
Hormoned fish have poor life spans, damaged organs, can have skeletal abnormalities, are usually sterile so you won't need to no the sex of it. As you do want to know none of us could tell you as hormones give all fish male characteristics so you may never no, you got a 50 50 chance either way you pick. Might drop dead soon so try not to get attatched :?


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

great. The 'nice' remark was sarcasm. He does have a physical deformity, his mouth is crooked a little bit. I only got him for a penny because of that deformity.

I am actually very upset right now. Should I separate him from the rest of my fish? They all get along fine. I really do like him but I am upset because I was told he would probably color up once he got home. I trusted their word vs my own instincts on what I had read and researched.

How is it legal to do this and the pet store doesn't know what is wrong with their fish?? Does anyone have an article or website specifically covering this issue in the Ahli? I would like to bring something to show them. I want to make sure THEY know what is happening, and I also want them to know I know what is happening.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

yeah i would be pretty peevd to, but as you get more and more exp you no what to look for and what to expect in a fish you are looking for. Best thing to do is go back and talk to them, say that you have been intouch with many influential  people within the cichlid trade that have givin you the advice that it is illegal in the US to sell hormoned fish, they may not be aware of it themselves if they were hormoning it, it would have fully coloured when you bought it.
Good news is the fish is no more a risk then any other fish in your tank. It won't infect any of them or be overly aggressive (hopefully). It just hasn't been treated properly mate.
P.S. You can rarely trust an LFS retailer. Find the ones that are good trusted enthusiasts, not money hungry, sell their mums for a dollar type


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

I will make sure to go and discuss it with them.....

Can I add a different male in my tank or is this one still going to think it is 'top' male or does it think it is a female?


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Ummmm, personally i would try to introduce a male with that fish in the tank, who knows what it is or how it's going to react. You could ask to give the fish back as you now know it's a dud. Animal rights groups would love to hear about it


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## PaulineMi (Apr 3, 2008)

While not impossible I do not believe my fish was hormoned. The LFS here is very reputable....they've been in business for over 25 years and sell quality animals, fresh and saltwater. I purchased this fish as a small youngster and it was this color from day one.


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

Pauline, 
How big is your fish?


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

pauline, can you post a pic of your fish?
At six months a fryeri should have very little blue in if any


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

She did post a pic... it is on the first page and it looks just like mine


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Ah, didn't realise that was her pic. Definately both fish have all the trademarks of x-hormoned fish. Both fish are S. Fryeri.
I can't stand hormoning fish and ill never do it, but for experimental purposes it would be interesting to see what would happen if you isolated the fish and reintroduced a hormone based food. They would colour up (unnaturally) and then you would know what you have. Don't no if i could do it though


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

MCKP said:


> great. The 'nice' remark was sarcasm. He does have a physical deformity, his mouth is crooked a little bit. I only got him for a penny because of that deformity.
> 
> I am actually very upset right now. Should I separate him from the rest of my fish? They all get along fine. I really do like him but I am upset because I was told he would probably color up once he got home. I trusted their word vs my own instincts on what I had read and researched.
> 
> How is it legal to do this and the pet store doesn't know what is wrong with their fish?? Does anyone have an article or website specifically covering this issue in the Ahli? I would like to bring something to show them. I want to make sure THEY know what is happening, and I also want them to know I know what is happening.


It has become common to sell Fryeri ("Electric Blue Ahli Hap") hormoned. When they come into the pet store all the little fish will be shiny blue, which is very unnatural for all the fish to show color at the same time so young. The stores do not hormone them , but it is done before they are shipped to the stores. The color wears off over the following weeks.

It is legal? yes. It is unethical? Yes. It's done to sell the fish easier. A rip off, plus the fish may not recover to normal. Not sure if anybody have done actual research, but many fish look and act abnormal even after losing the fake male color. The fish may never be normal, or maybe you will get lucky.

If the fish is female, she will never get any color anyway. No need to seperate the fish. I suppose you could see if anything happens with the fish. 
It's like overdosing a kid with male sexual hormones. Would a girl or boy then go thru puberty normally then? Can't be good, in any event.


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

Most retailers simply don't know the fish were hormoned at the breeder or distributor. Many of the domestic distributors get their shipments from Malaysia or the Philippenes (tropical places where they can be bred in huge outdoor ponds.

If you think about the level of general knowledge you run into in LFS, it is not surprising that much of the time the idea of hormone treatment for better colors even exisits. The problem is your average person off the street is not going to buy the boring little grey fish if they have the option of a fully colored little fish. these same people don't know about cycling a tank or water changes either. If there fish doesn't live beyond the point where the hormones wear off, they just go get another one. Viscious cycle.


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## rarefaction (Aug 6, 2009)

I guess I don't like him dark like that... open mouth, insert foot.


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

Just out of curiosity, is there any possible way it could be a Phenochilus Tanzania Female? I have read that they are commonly mistaken for each other....


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

I don't think so.


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

Here is a more recent picture..... (the flash really made him/her look more blue...) 
"Turk"









And here is the other one which looks identical to the one above but has now lightened and started losing its stripes.... I think this is a Fryeri female but don't know.

"Ramsey"









So??? What do I have? A mix? A Fryeri? Male or Female? Hormoned Female?

I really need to know because I want to add a blue fryeri male in, but if Turk is actually a male, I do not want to start conflict.......


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Sorry, It is hard to tell when they have been hormoned.

If you can get a nice quality non-hormoned male, go for it. I wouldn't count on these fish that you have. The blue one is beat up.... what are you keeping him with? A male may never do well with your other fish.
They are not pairing fish, you may want more than one female.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

rarefaction said:


> I guess I don't like him dark like that... open mouth, insert foot.


You would like a Midnight Mloto then









or a C. trewavasae "Mloto"


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

The only real way is to vent the fish. OO is female and oO is male. I think thats right I have to look at a fish to tell.


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

Plus you bottem fish might be a male his dorsal and anal fins are comming to a point it looks like in the pic.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

danielratti said:


> The only real way is to vent the fish. OO is female and oO is male. I think thats right I have to look at a fish to tell.


oo is male, oO is female


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

Yeah! Thats what I ment....


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

I posted venting pictures in the Malawi forum..... so maybe someone from here can tell me what I have based on those pictures?


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## caseyof99 (Aug 5, 2009)

My brother has a group of blue Ahli's and his females look just like that.


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