# What species are typically in the "African Cichlid&quot



## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

Hey all,

Referring to fish stores (especially chain stores), there are Assorted African Cichlid tanks, is there a typical bulk of species that are in there? This is really just out of curiosity more than anything, although I'm not nearly experienced enough to ID the fish BUT I think if I research enough about the particular stock list I'll be using, I could pick them out of a crowd, unless there was some reason I shouldn't get fish from the "Assorted" section.

Thanks!

John


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Since the cichlids in assorted tanks are not named, the tanks are a haven for hybrids. Hybrids can look exactly like the pure species. I would not buy from them. In fact some hobbyists won't buy from an LFS that keeps an assorted tank at all.

I imagine the tanks contain whatever hobbyists want to return plus whatever the breeders have excess of. I've seen practically everything in assorted tanks.

Look for an LFS that has the full scientific name on the tank as well as the collection point if possible.


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

DJRansome,

I appreciate the information, will do! Only one of the LFS's I've been to has an assorted tank, he says they are haps and zebras, the others do not, and of course the chain stores have the assorted tanks too.

I appreciate the information and quick response!

-John


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

I don't buy from LFS even if they supply all that information simply b/c they are over priced! they are charging you anywhere from 4 to 10 times the amount they are getting them for! There are so many independent breeders that really know what they have and have great prices! For instance you could pick up a Male Red Empress in a LFS for say 30-60 bucks fully colored! You have no idea if this was a breeder kept in solitude, where he was collected if claimed to be F0, how old he is, or weather he is f0 f1 f2 etc(they can tell you anything). Now if you went to a breeder he/she could tell you they have f1 Red Empress 2-3" where the wild caught parents were collected and they will sell them to you for a fraction of the price you could pick up a whole breeding colony for the price of one in store bought fish and you know that they are all F1s! just my .02


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

Gotcichlids,

I appreciate the information and I am getting some fish from local breeders, but finding Cichlids around here are few and far between, it's an hour drive to the nearest LFS, heck it's 45 minutes to the nearest Petco, 30 minutes to the nearest wal-mart that carries fish! I'm not exactly in Aquarist country, I have been trying, however, to find stuff as local as possible.

-John


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with buying from CA, TX etc etc the shipping is really safe for the fish as long as the breeder is reputable and knows what they are doing! Most even give you a live delivery guarantee! Try out Davesfish.com you have to call to put in your order but they have an extensive stock list and shipping to you from TX to MO should only take two days but you can pay extra for over night and get them in 24hrs! Good luck!


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

GotCichlids,

I think shipping the fish kind of negates the cost savings of not buying from an LFS doesn't it?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Cost with shipping may be equal to or less than purchase at LFS, but you get the species you want from a reputable vendor (depending on who you choose). Priceless. :thumb:


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

DJRansome,

Yeah I guess if you buy enough it's cheaper, in my searching though I find that most online breeders/dealers are only a dollar or two cheaper (or the same price) as my local fish stores, but I am getting at least two of the species from a local guy so that will save some $$$ (But still means shipping is probably not viable, shipping 10 fish is absolutely not going to be cheaper than buying 10 fish at even the most expensive fish stores around here).

-John


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

But you know that you aren't getting hybrids you know that they are healthy things that can't be promised from LFS. That is what DJ was trying to say is that it would be worth getting them from a reputable breeder b/c of all the pros it can be priceless!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Also if you are driving an hour each way to the LFS, you are saving gas $.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

If you order all your fish from the same place it will cost you about the same to ship 1 or 2 fish as it would to ship 20 fish so if you break it down if it was 20 extra for shipping for regular shipping the is a dollar per fish not that bad! Gas National avg 1.70 per gal 45mins there and back plus you could get over inbreed fish form the LFS hybrids sick fish malnourished I mean it is totally up to you but I'm just telling you now you will be much more happy with the fish from a breeder then a lfs 90% of the time


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

Where is it 20 extra for shipping though? Although the fish stores around me are actually quite great, they do list where they are collected from, whether they are while F1, etc. Most of them can promise no hybrids. Everywhere I've seen though is at least $30-40 for shipping, although one had a "special" shipping price of $25. Compare that to the $6.00 one way ($12 round trip) in gas I'm spending (and that's with my areas high $2.40 gas prices).

For example, Bluegrass aquatics (shipping):

Federal Express

* 2nd day or next day ground when available (NO warranty) $45.08
* Priority Overnight 100% Warranty $85.87

And Bluegrass has yellow labs for $6.40 each (just one example), they are "5 for $15" at one particular LFS that is very reputible. (I'm getting the labs from a local guy for $2.50 each, but that's just an example)

I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I just think I'm missing something, nowhere have I seen shipping even REMOTELY close to $20, and the fish at most of these online breeders are more expensive (I meant to say 1 to 2 dollars MORE at the breeders). A lot of these places have deals on shipping, IF you spend $100 on fish, I won't spend $100 on fish, gas and the drive thru on the way home at my LFS!!

I also don't think there is any evidence, in my opinion, that says there is any reason why these fish (which are shipped from fish stores in another area anyway) are any healthier or more pure bred than the ones at my LFS, since the two I'm thinking of are small, family owned and operated fish stores that breed fish as well as ship fish in from collectors. The third store, the one that had the mixed tank, doesn't list the collection point or generation, so I can completely understand why it would be advantageous to ship, but I'm still not seeing why a reputable dealer is more reputable, then a reputable fish store.

Also, please understand, I think I'm coming across rude herebut I don't have any other ways to word it, I earnestly want to know what the advantages are because I'm not seeing them. In the case of the yellow labs, (although those I'm getting from a local breeder, not an LFS, but bare with me). They are $3 each at a local fish store that has documented their generation, or collection point (they are probably F1 or F2, since they breed the labs in house [F2] and bring in alot of F1's), or I could spend almost $7 each and $85 to overnight them! I'm really not seeing the value here.

Also- Bluegrass is just one example, they are one of just a few dealers that actually list shipping prices (some others do but it's a flatrate of anywhere from $35 to $75).

Again, I'm not discounting what anyone has to say here AT ALL, (you can't convey tone on the internet) I'm just scratching my head here trying to figure out how you guys can say its both cheaper, and better. :-?

-John

Edit: By the way I should probably mention I try not to support live good sales at chain stores, I don't appreciate the way they care for their fish, tell customers to care for their fish (I have no problem with the employees its the people who train them who are at fault), and they sell very fish un-friendly products, like 'vacation feeder' blocks, and little 1/4 gallon betta stick on the wall things. Point is, I am not talking about Petco, Petsmart or Wal-Mart here, I'm refering to local St.Louis stores like Malawi Aquatics in Florissant, Tropical World Pets and Aqua World for those of you in the area. All three of these places house great looking healthy fish (although Aqua Worlds service leaves ALOT to be desired, his fish are great).


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

John,

I am glad to see your enthusiasm. The question you are wrestling with comes down to - if you have a really good store locally where you trust them to source the fish you want at a good price why would I order online.

Simple answer, you wouldn't.

Most of us do not have that luxury. I challenge you to find a store in Phoenix worth a d^&* and Phoenix is 90 miles from me. I've looked, and given up on the stores, as have the other cichlidiots in the state, try the Drywash Aquarium Society Boards bemoaning the fact. One store (supposedly the best cichlid source in Phoenix) had juvie Lamprologus multifasciatus for $39.95ea last time I entered that store







- I'll never to go back - please do a tiny bit of research on that tidbit and I know you will appreciate where people are coming from on this thread.

I used to live in NE Ohio and there were some great stores - I thought it would be like that everywhere - boy was I wrong. If you have a great LFS - bully for you - please enjoy.

Honestly, all in all, it sounds like you have far better LFS's than you realize.

As long as you are happy with what the LFS has in stock and you trust them you won't have an issue. After you have had experience with what they stock you may find that your attitude adjusts as you look for something new and different to keep - I only hope you can get to that point.

The original part of this thread, the Mixed African tank is a [email protected] shoot - always - hybrid can look pure but not behave like what you thought you were buying and kill off your entire tank - that is the problem with those tanks. I will hold to that.

Good Luck.


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Fish from a reputable breeder









Fish from assorted tank-- which may, or may not develop pickle, due to hybridization.


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

@ Aquariam, haha!

@goof, yeah I think we've established and I agree completely, so I will stay away from the mized tanks. I don't think any of my LFS's had any Cichlids, adult or otherwise for $40 ha! Maybe, but I didn't see any (I think they had a 12" Oscar for like 25ish).

Also, back to the 20 dollar shipping thing, someone mentioned it was "20 bucks" extra for shipping, I'd STILL like to know where because I can handle that! What I can't handle is needing to spend 100 bucks on fish to get the shipping knocked DOWN to $40 or $50.

But what I will do if I shop an LFS is look for the source, usually they will give it to me and the service at most of them are great, these people seem to know alot, and alot of times I've asked them questions and gotten the same answers from them as I did here.

Thanks,

John


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

John27 said:


> Also, back to the 20 dollar shipping thing, someone mentioned it was "20 bucks" extra for shipping, I'd STILL like to know where because I can handle that! What I can't handle is needing to spend 100 bucks on fish to get the shipping knocked DOWN to $40 or $50.


Aquabid is the only place I've seen it and gotten it - priority mail option.


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## AquaticLove (Jul 13, 2010)

GotCichlids? said:


> I don't buy from LFS even if they supply all that information simply b/c they are over priced! they are charging you anywhere from 4 to 10 times the amount they are getting them for! There are so many independent breeders that really know what they have and have great prices! For instance you could pick up a Male Red Empress in a LFS for say 30-60 bucks fully colored! You have no idea if this was a breeder kept in solitude, where he was collected if claimed to be F0, how old he is, or weather he is f0 f1 f2 etc(they can tell you anything). Now if you went to a breeder he/she could tell you they have f1 Red Empress 2-3" where the wild caught parents were collected and they will sell them to you for a fraction of the price you could pick up a whole breeding colony for the price of one in store bought fish and you know that they are all F1s! just my .02


Where can you find a breeder? I don't know anywhere else to get fish besides the LFS. I mean, I know you can certainly go to livefishdirect or other websites like that, but it's so high to ship, especially if you only want one fish.

All of the LFS around here have the assorted African Cichlid mixes. I have yet to see a shop that has a tank full of a specific Cichlid besides Convicts. =(


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## Gunn20 (Jun 19, 2010)

HAHA!


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## davecshrode (Jul 7, 2010)

i also now wonder why lfs stock this assorted mix with fish that are WAY too aggressve to keep unless you have a really big tank (auratus, johanni, bumble bee, kenyi and zebras are the fish usually in the assorted tank) and anyone with a really big tank USUALLY knows what they are doing and buys from reputable breeders and/or orders online.
BTW if anyone knows of a good lfs or breeder near los angeles area please pm me...thanks


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Find breeders by posting a Want Ad in the Trading Post or joining your local fish club. Find your local fish club in the Links menu item above. Even if you only attend once a year to see a particular speaker you will make local contacts with breeders and get great LFS recommendations.

The assorted tanks have auratus, etc. because that's what the hobbists are bringing back for store credit.


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## AquaticLove (Jul 13, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> Find breeders by posting a Want Ad in the Trading Post or joining your local fish club. Find your local fish club in the Links menu item above. Even if you only attend once a year to see a particular speaker you will make local contacts with breeders and get great LFS recommendations.
> 
> The assorted tanks have auratus, etc. because that's what the hobbists are bringing back for store credit.


Looked everywhere for a local fish club. Nothing. :/ Thanks for the help though!


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