# New Member, First Tanganyikan Tank - Suggestions Please



## afroquarium (May 17, 2008)

Hi folks, Im new on here and relatively new to cichlids. I am keen to set up a Tanganyikan biotope aquarium that will be populated by 3 or 4 different species. The hope is that they will breed, but I realise its not as likely in a "community style" set up - or if it happens that the eggs/fry will get eaten - so its my intention to end up with separate breeding tanks too.

I would welcome your comments on my initial thoughts.

I like Julidochromis Marlieri, Neolamprologus Pulcher and also Neolamprologus Leleupi. Do you think these three would get along ? What stocking levels would you suggest (for a 3 or 4 foot tank) and in what proportions ? Are there any others that would go well with these, or any of these that would be better left out of the mix?

Any other suggestions of good mixes would be welcomed too. Thanks


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## gunther (Nov 25, 2007)

Welcome ,
To answer your questions I need a little more info. When you say 3' or 4' tank, how many gallons are we talking about. 20gal, 55, 4' 90gal ? The three fish you mentioned would get along . I had those three including a calvus, lamp caudopunctatus, gold ocellatus, and even a small Fronosa(that I later regretted in my 1st Tang tank 55gal that I later upgraded to a 4' 90gal) The three fish you mention are all pretty aggressive and the Neo pulcher WILL OVERTAKE the tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Aren't Pulcher's better in a species tank? So they don't kill off the community once they start breeding?


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## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

even with a 4 footer tank, those 3 fish will not get along.

1) Pulcher will colonize and they will start picking apart anything else.
2) If the leleupi pair up before the pulcher colonize, they will first kill off your other leleupi and will most likely killed your pulcher.
3) Leleupi and pulcher does crossbreed. I have seen that happen. So even a single pulcher and leleupi can have a problem but chance is small.
4) julie will be ok. They are the least aggressive fish out of those 3. They will spawn and protect a small area only.

Depends on tank size, then we can suggest a few community fish that can go along...


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## afroquarium (May 17, 2008)

Charles said:


> Depends on tank size, then we can suggest a few community fish that can go along...


Hi Charles and everyone else. Thanks for your input so far.

Charles - Im thinking of making up a tank thats 1100mm x 600mm x 500 tall. That should be about 50 gallons less rockwork.

So the Leleupi and Marlieri will get along OK ? Are they both likely to breed and leave their fry alone in that size tank ? Would Transcriptus be better than the Marlieri ?

Thanks for your advice.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

There really aren't many fish that will breed and leave their, and other fry alone. Certainly leleupi fry won't survive in a community tank, though often Julidochromis fry do survive. If you want a mix of Tangs, with fry surviving, let me recommend a mix of Julidochromis transcriptus or ornatus, Lamprologus multifasciatus and Telmatochromis vitattus (but only with the transcriptus, not ornatus).


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

My Telmatochromis Temporalis are also good parents, not great lookers, but good parents. They keep mostly to themselves and are reasonably tolerant of their fry.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Darkside said:


> My Telmatochromis Temporalis are also good parents, not great lookers, but good parents. They keep mostly to themselves and are reasonably tolerant of their fry.


My guess is that you don't have Telmatochromis temporalis, rather Telmatochromis sp. "Temporalis Shell". Two completely different fish. My experience with this fish was that of a very aggressive fish, that could dominate a 4ft tank. Now I've only kept wildcaught and F1 specimens, and it might be feasible that multiple generation tank raised fish are less aggressive, though you would be the first person to report such behaviour. My opinion is that this is a species only tank fish.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

At the moment T. temporalis covers both the shell and regular varieties, just like Altolamprologus compressiceps covers all the geographical variants including the "shell" varieties. I bought mine at auction, so I have no idea what generation they are. My male is significantly larger than the female, more than double her size. My pair is very skittish and even though the male was the largest fish in the aquarium, I ended up moving them to their own tank, because my gobies and comps ("Sumbu") wouldn't leave them alone. From my experience these fish are relatively tame. I'm sure mine are the "shell" variety, the male is about 4" the female about 2.5". I haven't seen the larger T. temporalis in Canada in quite some time.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Darkside said:


> At the moment T. temporalis covers both the shell and regular varieties, just like Altolamprologus compressiceps covers all the geographical variants including the "shell" varieties.


Has the shell version been judged via a paper to be a temporalis then? Do you know where I can find this paper, as I hadn't seen that information until now. Until now, it was properly known as sp. "Temporalis shell".


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Fogelhund said:


> Darkside said:
> 
> 
> > At the moment T. temporalis covers both the shell and regular varieties, just like Altolamprologus compressiceps covers all the geographical variants including the "shell" varieties.
> ...


I can check that for you if you'd like... lol. Do you think that I'll have my best results looking for it in English or German?

edit:

At the surface all I can find in English is an article that suggests there may be a significant difference between the two varieties, but its relatively old. I can't find anything newer that is peer reviewed on the topic. I'll try my luck with a search in German.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Upon further review there are no resources available to me where they state that the "shell" variety is a separate species. There is an article (Journal of Fish Biology (2004) 65, 419â€"435) where the author gives compelling evidence that the "shell" version could be a distinct species pending further investigation of T. temporalis populations at different localities. There is also an article (Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution (2007) 45, Issue 2, 629-642) where the authors look at the phylogenetic relationships between lamprologines, but do not say much concerning T. temporalis. Maybe someone else has something more recent?


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## afroquarium (May 17, 2008)

Guys this is very interesting but its kind of gone off the point of my original question. Can I ask that if you want to continue your discussion that you take it to another post ? Cheers.


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## Neolamprologus Marco (Jan 14, 2008)

Hey afro,
If you look at my fist posting(Hi...New Guy).you will see I have a variety of different tangs who all seem to get along. I really like the j.marleri,its a beautiful fish and the brichardi for its fins and the leleupi for its color.


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## afroquarium (May 17, 2008)

Thanks Marco - that sounds very encouraging.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

If you truly want the three fish in your first post, this is the best chance of success. Buy your J. marlieri and N. leleupi. Wait until they are mature, breeding and defending territories. Then go out and purchase your juvenile pulcher, and add them to the tank. If the other's are established and larger than the pulcher, it could work (I've done this to have it work), but it could fail at some point too.


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## gunnerx (Apr 14, 2008)

I have a 120 gallon 6ft tank that has 8 Pulchers, 11 Julis, 7 Cyps and 6 Brevis. They are doing quite well together. The Pulchers and Brevis were there first, then the Cyps and recently the Julis. The established pair of Pulchers wasted no time spawning. They now have fry in a cave to the left corner of the tank. Both parents are defending the area and most stay away with the exception of the Cyps. Cyps don't really care where they go and who they bother. They school so the 2 parents can't really keep on chasing them away. They just keep coming back. However, I think the parents would like to keep everyone to the other half of the tank. That's 3ft of their area and 3ft for the rest. Pulchers definitely need more space and will do much better in a longer tank.


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