# Weird Breeding Situation



## MarkoD (Oct 23, 2010)

i just looked into my tank and saw the weirdest thing.

a fully grown male ruby green cichlids doing the breeding dance with a 2 inch eureka red. and she was laying eggs and picking them up in her mouth.

here mouth is defiantly full.

how is this even possible? they're not even from the same lake


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

cross breeding happens... hybrid fry are a common issue in this hobby.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They are both mouth brooders. Did each fish have the appropriate number and gender of mates available in the tank? If not then this was inevitable.


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## MarkoD (Oct 23, 2010)

how is this even possible

they're not even close to being the same species.

my red empress male would never breed with a peacock.

so why would a ruby green hap breed with a peacock.


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## CichMomma (Mar 3, 2010)

MarkoD said:


> how is this even possible


Because they can! :lol:


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## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

MarkoD said:


> my red empress male would never breed with a peacock.


it happens. pretty much any mouth brooder from any combination of rift lakes can and will interbreed if given the chance.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

MarkoD said:


> how is this even possible
> 
> they're not even close to being the same species.


 the man made construct of "species" is pretty irrelevant to whether or not things can breed together. The only tie is that if two groups of animals cannot and will not breed together then they are obviously not of the same group (species).


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

If they're in the same tank together...and both parties are interested...it can happen.

A similar, but opposite concept is that just having one male and one female of the same species together in a tank doesn't mean they will definitely mate (or pair up--though, yes, Africans don't do this).


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## MarkoD (Oct 23, 2010)

im so confused. i thought it was only possible if it was the same kind of cichlid

but i guess ill see what happens with the fry, they'll probably become food


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Sorry about the confusion!...but containing fish in the same habitat can produce these results.
Fish of the same genus have higher chances of hybridization (since their genetics are similar and the qualities they look for in a mate are also similar) and keeping the right ratio male to female can be a good deterrent, but nothing is ever certain.

Suffice to say, I don't think I'd keep the fry. I'm sure the adults are good looking, but I have a feeling they'd make some odd looking babies :lol:

There's no way you could have foreseen this...it certainly is an odd case as far as I know.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Pretty much any mouth brooding cichlid. Especially if there are not sufficient mates within their species available in the tank.


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## MarkoD (Oct 23, 2010)

thanks for the info guys.

i do have a eureka red male in there but he's still at 2 inches and not even starting to color up yet.

i had no idea that a female that small could even start to reproduce. but her mouth is still full 2 days later


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

Females of many fish mature more quickly than males. In the wild they would breed with older, territory holding males, while the young bachelors are still trying to mature. In the aquarium, they will breed with the territory holding males, even if they're not the same species.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

DJRansome said:


> Pretty much any mouth brooding cichlid.


All lake Malawi cichlids (Haps, peacocks and mbuna) are Haplochromines. Lake Victorean haps, and Tropheus from lake Tanginyka (and a few other Tanginykan mouth brooders), as well as many other cichlids across Africa are also Haplochromines. They belong to the tribe, Haplochromini. A tribe is a group of closely related genuses that are thought to have a common ancestor. Conceivably, any Haplochromine could be crossed with each other, as they are closely related. Suprising to many, a few years back on this forum, somebody apears to have crossed a Tropheus from lake Tanginyka with a lake malawi cichlid -----though I wasn't suprised at all, knowing that a Tropheus is classified as belonging to the Haplochromini tribe.

Not sure a Haplochromine has ever been crossed with a mouth brooding Tilapia, such as an Oreochromis species. That would, suposedely, be more distantly related, as these fishes belong to a different tribe, Tilapinni. Though some recent DNA studies suggest that Oreochromis species are actually more closely related to Haplochromines then they are to SOME substrate spawning Tilapias. I would supose, given the importance of Oreochromis in aquaculture, that if a cross with a Haplochromine were possible, somebody would have tried it and done it already.

And there are, as well, more distantly related mouthbrooding cichlids such as some Geophagus species from South America. I would think a cross of a Haplochromine with any of these would be quite unlikely :lol:


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## MarkoD (Oct 23, 2010)

wow thanks for the extensive answer.

so what should i do? should i try and raise these fry and see what they look like or just leave them to get eaten?

i dont think there will be many. maybe 10 or so


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The problem with raising them to see what they look like is...then what? If you keep them they will cross-breed with your pure species and it creates a viscious circle. Also the older they get, the more you want to protect them. I'd let the mom spit in the tank.


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## MarkoD (Oct 23, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> The problem with raising them to see what they look like is...then what? If you keep them they will cross-breed with your pure species and it creates a viscious circle. Also the older they get, the more you want to protect them. I'd let the mom spit in the tank.


yeah i wont be moving her or anything. but if the fry survive and dont get eaten, ill raise them i guess. I dont wanna be flushing live fish cuz because the mom is red and the dad is green


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## gmaschke (Aug 23, 2008)

Personally I'd say let them be food. :thumb:


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

MarkoD said:


> but if the fry survive and dont get eaten, ill raise them i guess. I dont wanna be flushing live fish cuz because the mom is red and the dad is green


You're free to do so of course, but I just want to give you my usual warning... these fish are prolific! Worse than bunnies... so jsut remember that they will grow up to have more fry and more... eventually, you will be required to bring things to an end. I, personally, find it easier to be rid of newly spat fry than to have to put down adult fish.


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## MarkoD (Oct 23, 2010)

they probably wont even survive. i have 14 other adult cichlids that'll eat them in no time


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## toolate_frozen (Dec 1, 2010)

As they are known hybrids, I would strip the female early to save wasting her energy.
It may interest some of you to know that there has been documented hybridisation between an Indian Ringneck Parrot (from India/Asia of course) and a Princess parrot (from Australia). Not even from the same continent!!!


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## yuanyelss (Jan 20, 2011)

Did each fish have the appropriate number and gender of mates available in the tank? If not then this was inevitable...... :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing:


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