# Please Help...Hard Water vs Soft Water



## jacquiQ (May 28, 2010)

I'm hoping someone can please help me out and give me some good advice or an idea of what is happening . I haven't been able to find the answer anywhere and I am hoping that I can find it here.

I have had Cichlids for at least 5 years now but have owned fish for at least 7 or 8 years. I recently moved from a house that was well fed and my cichlids LOVED the water quality as it was very hard. My fish always did very well and I think in the entire 5 years that I lived there, only lost 1 or 2 fish. They were in a 90 gal tank.

Anyway, recently moved in Jan 2010 to another area that is also well fed but in a community and the water is treated but is supposed to still be fairly hard.. I also recently got a water filtration and softener installed in my house on the main water line so it provides filtered and softened water to every faucet in the house..The water softener is softened by Potassium and not the usual salt. I also upgraded my tank to a 120 gal and was bought at Big Als..

Well since this change, I have lost at least a dozen fish. First, all my Soulosi's died...I had 2 proven males and 4 females. Then I lost 4 Demonsani (sp?) They all died somewhat the same way where their behaviour changed where they hid and would not eat and then finally I would find them lying on the bottom of the tank gasping for air....I do regular water changes and at the time of my water softener install, I did a 40 % water change.

I most recently lost one of my snow white scolofi (sp?) and a holding female yellow lab...Her fry were able to be released but she was well one min and dead the next...All the rest of my other fish seem to be doing ok but then again, my other fish looked ok and then would change overnight. I am sooo frustrated and confused as to why this is happeneing.

Would the water softener have anything to do with this do you think? I hear that Cichlids like and perfer hard water. I recently tested the PH in the tank and it was between 7.2 and 8.4 somewhere around there. Nitrate levels are low. I also use fresh water salt in my tank 5ml / 5 gal.

Please anyone have any knowledge about what this could be?

Thank you


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Several things I would question but much from guessing. It will take a bit of testing to know. First is the softened water. Did you move the fish from the former water directy to the soft? Quite likely a major difference in PH, there. While it may not kill them directly , it may make them stressed and ready for other disease. Can you see a way that any outside faucets are not plumbed to the output of the softener? That is the case in my house. If not is there a way to tap into the line before the softener so that hard water can be used in the tank. My softener is throught the wall from my fish and I ran a pipe through to use hard water. I also have questions on using the potassium for softening. Is there a major health problem in the family that dictates this? Potassium is quite a lot more expensive than salt. The system can use either if set up correctly for one or the other. Not sure of the effect on fish of the potassium. It should be removed from the water during the rinse cycle but like any rinsing, there is a very small amount left. Perhaps I am wrong and just jumping at shadows. Is it possible there was a new tank situation set up when you moved so that ammonia is the real problem? Need to do some thorough testing for ammonia, nitrate and nitrites. May be more simple than the water supply but the fish will like hard water.


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## Bearbear (May 8, 2010)

Possible you didn't dechlorinate last water change?
Believe chlorine poisoning causes red gills. The fish should be gasping for air at the surface if this was the case.

Fish should be settled from move in Jan. by now. Water softeners also remove other minerals that the fish might find beneficial - don't know exact issues, just read softener water is bad for aquariums. People who use RO water needs to add minerals back into the water to make it suitable, about as close of a comparison that I can think of.

I have a huge container in the garage with a heater, just fill it up with water pre-softener the day before water changes.


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## jacquiQ (May 28, 2010)

Thank you for your reply.

As for the transfer, I transfered them in to approx 70 percent of the new water and the rest was their established water that they were in previously. I also used water conditioner at that time and let is cycle for at least 24 hours. All my faucets are hooked up to the water softener so there is no way around it. I have tried calling the guy who installed this in order to get him to take it out. I love the water softener but I like my fish more..

I have about 15 fish in the tank and they are all ok...and I don't think they had the chlorine poisoning as they weren't up at the top gasping for air but rather, they would hide, not eat and sit on the bottom.

I just lost my last Solousi last night. I knew she was going to go cause she was displaying all the above symptoms for about 2 weeks and finally, she died last night. She would mostly sit at the bottom of the tank, not eat but would come out when she saw me come close to the tank. She otherwise looked like a healthy fish..she may have had a little bit of sunkin belly as her belly did look a little sucked in.

Any other thoughts???

Thanks again


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Sorry about the fish loss. Sometimes it is hard to determine what is going wrong. On the softener issue, there may be a less drastic way if you do like the soft water for all other things. There will be a pipe going into the softener and one coming out. They are often marked in some way or perhaps you can tell which is the input because it should have a cutoff in that line so the softener can be worked on. Is there any chance of adding a faucet in this line before the softener to use for fish water? Depending on layout, perhaps a barrel nearby that could have a small pump to feed water from the storage barrel to the tanks. Seems a shame to do away with the soft water if you like it. At some point there was quite a lot of money spent to get it installed.


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## Bearbear (May 8, 2010)

Might want to look into Kent R/O Right Water Conditioner.
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/p ... catid=4128

It adds the needed minerals the R/O filter removes, but I would research further before using it for your situation. 
Definitely try contacting the manufacturer - Kent - to see if it suitable for your situation.
They have email and phone number listed on website.
http://www.kentmarine.com/support/index.htm

_
Kent R/O Right Water Conditioner is a specially formulated mixture of dissolvable solids (also called general hardness or GH) which includes major salts of sodium, magnesium, calcium, and potassium together with all necessary minor and trace minerals, together with a small amount of carbonate alkalinity (KH) to reproduce artificial river water (most aquarium fish are river fish).

Kent R/O Right Water Conditioner provides natural water chemistry for the conversion of reverse osmosis, distilled or de-ionized water for freshwater fish and plants._


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## jacquiQ (May 28, 2010)

Thank you Bearbear..Your link was very helpful. I will try contacting them


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## Bearbear (May 8, 2010)

Moved there in Jan and said softener was more recent, how recent was it?
What are your water changing habits since softener was installed?

I would personally do a large water change with non softened water if possible and continue to do so until you can rule out softener or ate able to add additives to compensate.

Use a softener too and fill a large container with pre-softener water and drop a heater in the container overnight to match temps. Lately no heater has been needed.

Fixing the water problem doesn't answer why the fish are fine one day and dying the next though.
Hope you get that figured out soon, wish I had advice for that.


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## Bearbear (May 8, 2010)

Dunno if it has been mentioned or not. 
Only other thing I can think is to try and treat with salt and heat.
Increase tank temp slowly to 85-86 and add aquarium salt per directions on container. Believe it is 1 tsp per 5 gallons.
With increased heat you will also need to increase oxygenation. Higher temps lower oxygen levels.


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