# Help, new tank not level



## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Hey all,

Working on my first cichlid tank. Been looking forward to this for awhile, but now its getting a little stressful. I want to get to painting, aquascaping etc., but I'm not settled on the tanks location. The tank is a 4 ft 33 gallon, going on a ledge in the boys bedroom, 4 feet high from the floor, 5 feet wide and 2.5 feet deep. It seemed like a nice spot for this size tank. My first concern was the weight (one reason I went for the 33 long), so I reinforced the closet ceiling that is below the ledge on the floor below (split level house)


So here is ledge with the tank on it



I have since discovered that this ledge is not level, side to side and front to back. Left side will be about 1/16-1/8 inch lower, back will be about 1/8-3/16 inch lower than front. The ledge also has some imperfections, so I added a piece of 3/4 inch piece of white shelving (laminate over particle board) to achieve a smooth surface. You can also see in this picture that the ledge slopes down in the last 6-10 inches as it approaches the left side( space between ledge and shelving).


Between the ledge not being level and the slope on the left, am I in trouble here? Am I looking at too much stress on tank?

Appreciate all opinions. Value all input. Have learned so much on this forum!


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Sorry, forgot to mention that ideally I would like to position the tank all the way to left side. That is why that small slope in the ledge bothers me.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I don't think that small difference will affect the tank at all as long as the tank doesn't rock on the board. If you want the tank to be perfectly plumb and level, you can insert some thin wood shims under the board (not the tank) to achieve this. I've used the kind sold at home improvement stores that are normally used when installing windows or doors.

BTW, that looks like the perfect spot for that tank. The builder probably wasn't too concerned with the slight variation when they built it.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Thanks for the quick reply. Very encouraging.


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## sweety (Jan 10, 2010)

You could make a small frame to sit under the board & trim the frame so everything sits level then you'll know the board won't flex under the weight of the tank once full


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

boomer92 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> ........
> 
> ...


I love the location of your tank. I have a recessed area in my basement that may receive similar treatment after seeing yours. 
AS for stress on the tank, the biggest worry is localized unevenness that can cause the tank to torque under its weight or cause pinpoint contact. A heavy laminated board, such as the one pictured, provides a dead flat surface for the tank, eliminating torqueing and pinpoint contact concerns (unless the unevenness is so great that it torques the board, too). 
That said, sitting the laminate on a sloped shelf will be noticed by the difference in water level from side to side and front to back, so shimming the laminated board will make it more aesthetically pleasing.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Many thanks for the opinions and good ideas. I think I may position the tank in the center of the ledge, getting rid of the flex issue on the left. It sounds like I'm probably ok with the leveling issue based on all of your replies, but could possibly improve it if wanted. Guess I have some thinking to do.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Update: I decided to put wood shims under the laminate board. The board extends 1/2 inch beyond the back of the tank. I placed some shims to measure at what point I achieved a level surface. I then cut these shims and placed them so that they would line up with the edge of the tank, (recessed 1/2 inch under the board). After placing the board and then the tank on top, I inserted full length shims in between the recessed ones that extend beyond the back edge of the board for additional support.

I also cut the board to slightly longer than tank, and needed to place some shims on left because of a slight wobble. Everything seems quite secure now.
I will trim these shims and figure out a way to achieve a clean look to the board edges

While I was working on this issue, I managed to cut my egg crate and get the background painted, so off to the landscape supply for some limestone!


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

LOOK before you leap!

My family has built houses for a couple generations. having remodeled a number of houses, I would not be as trusting as every one so far. I would have to see what I am dealing with.

I am curious what is on the other side of this wall and recess first of all. That could influence my next step. What I would be most likely to do after that is carefully remove all the trim and the white ledge board. Look inside the wall. If there is drywall under the ledge board, I would remove that too. There might be no support under this shelf. There might be a space and then venting, plumbing or other explanations for why this recess exists. There are building codes that ensure that a floor has a certain capacity for carrying weight or live load. That may not apply or may not be interpreted by the building inspector to apply to a shelf.

I would not use particle board under an aquarium. It will swell with humidity and water trapped under the tank. That could pop a silicone seal or crack a glass panel. I did not say it could swell. It will swell.


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

Mcdaphnia said:


> LOOK before you leap!
> 
> My family has built houses for a couple generations. having remodeled a number of houses, I would not be as trusting as every one so far. I would have to see what I am dealing with.
> 
> ...


His first photo showed what is under the ledge. It's a reinforced ceiling in a split-level, IIRC. 
As for using particle board, I wouldn't use unlaminated particle board, but his is laminated. The cut end isn't laminated and could be of concern.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Bikeman48088 said:


> His first photo showed what is under the ledge. It's a reinforced ceiling in a split-level, IIRC.
> As for using particle board, I wouldn't use unlaminated particle board, but his is laminated. The cut end isn't laminated and could be of concern.


That first photo does not show what is needed to be known. There could be several inches of gap between the added boards below and whatever if anything is supporting the shelf. You need to see inside.

Particle board, anything made of glue and sawdust or wood shavings, even MDO, will eventually swell from moisture under an aquarium. A little plastic will not make any difference. It is just a coating, at best a veneer, and there are no laminations (layers) showing in the particle board cut end.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Wow, talk about a back to the drawing board feeling. Hey, I appreciate the honesty though. There is a closet beneath that ledge as shown in the picture. When I started this project, I drilled a hole in the drywall ceiling of the closet. After poking around with a hanger, the distance to the wood shelf above(that the laminate and aquarium rest on) leads me to believe that there is 2 x 4 framing between, I am also basing this on the distance that I can probe side to side. All this being said, I had considered renting a fiberoptic camera with monitor to inspect visually. I may have to consider.

As far as the laminated particle board: good points are raised about the exposed edge. The back side is also exposed, only the front is laminated. I did not consider the moisture issue when I picked the material. Would plywood or something else work?

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed. Been thinking of this project for quite some time and finally decided to take the plunge. Thought I was getting somewhere. Would really like to see this through, so I'll keep plugging. Thanks again for input. Appreciate any other ideas and a good pep talk as well!


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Don't panic! OK, so I agree with McDaphnia in that you need to have a sense of what's between the drywall under the ledge board and the top of the closet beneath it, since you dont want to crush ducting, plumbing, etc. You've drilled, and checked once, which is good. Wouldnt hurt to run a studfinder along the closet ceiling and or shelf area (tougher through the ledge board) and see if you come up with studs on 16" centers, then cut/drill a large enough hole next to one and maybe up to the shelf area in order to convince yourself that there is framing under there that can protect that void space from a load on the shelf above it. Knowing what direction that framing runs would also be good (front to back of the shelf area is best, but even side to side wouldn't be the end of the world there. Does the closet area run the full length of the shelf area or is there some overlap where the shelf area is above some other space, in other words, are you supporting both ends of the shelf area with your additional supports? Having a sense of where the heating ducting and plumbing might be going (from where to where in your house) might also help you understand what's under there. if anything. As long as there is some sort of 2x4 framing, which is then on the drywall in the ceiling, which is then on the supports you added (which can hold a ridiculous amount of vertical weight), then I think you can be ok with it. Lastly, its a fish tank, and water is heavy (7.8 lbs per gallon) but a 33G long spread out over a 48" x 15" footprint is not really on the extreme end of loading, relative to what you COULD be putting up there. It's not light, don't get me wrong, but a 300 pound load is also not unthinkable when you're designing/building a structure like that. Caveat: I'm not a housebuilder, nor a structural engineer, but I am a mechanical/civil engineer and a homeowner with a 75G tank on the second floor, near a loadbearing exterior wall junction, so I'm not completely ignorant of stress/strain and shear/bending moments, etc. As to the pressboard under the tank, I'd agree that there must be a better moisture impervious material, but I dunno what that might be.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

If there is drywall under the ledge board, the shelf, it should be removed. That would mean removing the wood trim on top of and in front of it. Once you do that, you can make sure that when you replace the shelf that it is supported on the perimeter by wood lumber either on top of studs, or if necessary, horizontal 2 by 4's lag bolted to the stud work. Since the recess goes back 30 inches, there should be a rail (horizontal 2 by 4 or 2 by 6)on 16" centers either long way which would only be one, or go the short way and have about 4 of them. You can use exterior plywood with either direction, but if you use pine 1 by 12's or other width boards, the short way would be best. Maybe you have a friend who is handy with carpentry. It could cost you to hire a professional, but if this seems beyond your level of comfort, it might be worth it. The 2 by 4's you have downstairs are probably duplicating studs (2 by 4's) in the walls that are covered by the drywall. If you measure that opening, it could be about 3 inches shorter than the 5 foot width of the shelf suggesting that the shelf is supported well on the ends at least. If you are careful, you can remove the wood trim, and wood shelf if there is one, undamaged and reusable. Where you see finish nails, if they can't be pulled out, you can hammer them in with a hardened concrete nail so that the boards come loose. Safety glasses, of course. I would probably not reuse the cove molding, because any gap they are intended to cover up would look better filled with drywall compound and painted wall color.

Having it open might be a good time to install an electrical outlet in the wall a little above the water line of the tank before you close it up again.

I had a very similar recess in my last house, just about the same size, and it was a split level too. However I built the house, so I knew exactly what was under the drywall.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Hose,

Thanks for the encouraging words. I've been following your 75 gallon thread. Enjoy your enthusiasm! Part of me is ready to just get a stand for this 33L, but I think that tank would look great in that recessed area, so I'm going to get this figured out.

Thanks


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Boomer,

No worries! I agree that the tank will look good there, and frankly, I'm not sure what else you might do with that space that would be better. Some other things to consider. It looks like the right hand wall is an external load bearing wall, so its hopeful that the builder put a header in that wall to support that end of the shelf. You might be able to get the info you need by having a local contractor or handyman come out and give it a look see as a free estimate? At the very least, he might be able to take a peek inside under the shelf. Hang in there and persevere, you'll be rewarded in the end. In the meantime, the paint job looks great, and I'm sure you're itching to put sand and rocks in it! I can't remember if you've discussed what you plan to put in it, but that's exciting as well. I'd also say that while you're sorting all this out, see if you can find a line on a healthy aquarium that could give you some seeding material for when its time, because the cycling thing is a bit excruciating to wait out, argh.


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Bikeman48088 said:
> 
> 
> > His first photo showed what is under the ledge. It's a reinforced ceiling in a split-level, IIRC.
> ...


Kitchen counters are made from formica over particle board, so I disagree with your blanket statement above. I do agree that the exposed cut end is a concern, though.


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## theboothsociety (Jan 3, 2012)

get 2 of your friends and stand on the ledge you want to put the tank on. if it feels solid, should be good for your tank. Like mentioned above, couldn't hurt to open it up and see the support underneath.

As far as leveling, go to home depot, buy some window shims and 1/2 or 3/4" piece of plywood. Cut the plywood to the size of your ledge or your tank. Then shim underneath the plywood. This will create a nice level surface for you to rest the tank on.

How off is it? front to back or side to side?

A lot of tanks I've set up are not 100% level, never had an issue.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Bikeman, you can disagree with the statement the Earth is round and the sun is not pulled across the sky by a chariot of flying horses, but that does not make you right. I helped build hundreds of houses, and in most of them, there is no special effort to make a recess like this stronger than needed to hold a few books or some sports trophies.

I did buy a 125 gallon tall tank that had been in a recess like this until recently. It is about 60" by 18" footprint. The old owners had to stand on a chair to put fish food in it and the wife fell which is why they replaced it with a 55 gallon tank. That one was cement block wall construction and that is not the case here. Having a builder/remodeler look at the shelf was a great idea. As to Formica not swelling in kitchens and bathrooms, why are we in those rooms replacing the old Formica with something new? I can't believe you are a builder. And if you are, somebody tell me where so I can avoid buying one of those houses.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

As to formica swelling, none of mine in my 28 year old house have swelled. However, it is not the best thing to put particle board under a tank for a lot of reasons. Mcdaphnia makes some good points, not the least of which is, that appearances can hide hide unknown structural flaws. While the structure might be fine for it's original purpose, re-purposing it may require some modification. Always better to be safe, and err on the side of caution.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

All points/opinions noted and appreciated. If I have time tomorrow, renting a fiberoptic camera to try some inspection. If I am not convinced, I will solicit some opinions from those I know in the trade. Boothsociety: the back of the tank would be approx.3/16" lower than front if not leveled. I actually leveled out pretty good with shims under the laminate shelving(the debated material in question). If I switched to plywood and painted with a high gloss kitchen/bath paint, do you think that would do the job. Also, I wonder if I could treat the sides of my laminate particle board with something to solve the moisture issue? I doubt it, just asking.

For those interested, my goal is 1 or 2 breeding groups of smaller, less aggressive mbuna. Only 33 gallon I know, but with 4' footprint hoping I can pull it off. When I start cycling(2015?), I'll move to the malawi thread for advice.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Paint the top and edges, but not the bottom of the plywood. That would allow trapped humidity to escape. There used to be a product you could put on particle board that prevented it from swelling for a long time. I used it outdoors and it worked for about 20 years. I have not seen that product available for 30 years, but you could use a rubber coating like that intended for tool handles on a small area like the end of a board. MDO and Pal-Gard made a good combination to build plywood aquariums with.

I would like to see a custom tank in that area. A tank that comes close to the side walls and corners would depend less on the shelf for support. Low is a good idea for access. Yellow labidos seem like a good choice for a small Malawi tank. They are usually tank raised and that seems to reduce size and aggression within a few captive generations. I have a 55 with 8 demasoni and some culled guppies I put in as expendable dither fish. The demasoni must be tank raised because they don't bother each other and don't bother the guppies either.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Would love to fill that whole space if not for $$$. Yellow labs are actually high on my list b/c of their color and temperament, wasn't sure about mature size though. Thanks


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Build the tank yourself. Acrylic or glass. Less $$$ than custom ordering it. You mentioned knowing someone in the trade. They may be able to get glass or acrylic for you.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Little beyond my comfort level, but nice thought


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Too bad you're not closer. I am rebuilding a 40, a 90, a metric tank almost the dimensions of a 120 gallon, and building a 22 rimless gallon tank 48 by 10 by 10 for a plant and shrimp or celestial danio tank. That one is 3/8 inch glass that is beveled on the edges. It could be much thinner, but the thicker glass will look great with the double bevels. It used to be fun and profitable to build aquariums. Now it's fun. If the area's planted aquarium club gets off the ground, I will probably donate that 22 to one of its first activities.


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Bikeman, you can disagree with the statement the Earth is round and the sun is not pulled across the sky by a chariot of flying horses, but that does not make you right. I helped build hundreds of houses, and in most of them, there is no special effort to make a recess like this stronger than needed to hold a few books or some sports trophies.
> 
> I did buy a 125 gallon tall tank that had been in a recess like this until recently. It is about 60" by 18" footprint. The old owners had to stand on a chair to put fish food in it and the wife fell which is why they replaced it with a 55 gallon tank. That one was cement block wall construction and that is not the case here. Having a builder/remodeler look at the shelf was a great idea. As to Formica not swelling in kitchens and bathrooms, why are we in those rooms replacing the old Formica with something new? I can't believe you are a builder. And if you are, somebody tell me where so I can avoid buying one of those houses.


I didn't disagree that the space should be checked for structural integrity, I disagreed with your blanket statement about laminates. There are two main reasons that people replace Formica tops.
1. They get tired of looking at the same thing year after year.
2. Poor installation exposed seams to water damage, particularly back splashes, sink inserts and faucets. I've never seen an undamaged Formica countertop swell in the center of the counter, have you?

As to your parting shot, no, I'm not a builder. I'm a retired R&D Manager and now co-founder of a new bike manufacturing company, using electronics to shifts bike gears.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Sorry, I misunderstood you were representing yourself as a builder. Glad to know there are no houses I have to avoid up your way. Yes I've seen lots of Formica with damage in every imaginable spot. Poor installation will shorten its life but poor treatment, putting hot items on it, leaving water sitting will too. The older it is the longer it is likely to last. The old stuff was better made.


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Sorry, I misunderstood you were representing yourself as a builder. Glad to know there are no houses I have to avoid up your way. Yes I've seen lots of Formica with damage in every imaginable spot. Poor installation will shorten its life but poor treatment, putting hot items on it, leaving water sitting will too. The older it is the longer it is likely to last. The old stuff was better made.


You don't have to avoid any houses that I've built, but I bet it'd be almost impossible for you to avoid any car that had at least one product on it that I developed. LOL

As for the formica, I don't think he'll have to worry about putting hot objects on it unless he's planning on boiling his fish.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Bike, I was following your tangent about Formica in kitchens. It would be nice to get fully back on topic, but boiling fish does not lead there.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

I will get us back on topic. It is apparent why I have chosen this forum: b/c of the knowledge out there that I am lacking. That being said, I don't want to have to separate anyone!  Unfortunately, got nothing done over weekend. However, I did check out a cichlid club swap meet yesterday for the first time, good stuff. Was wishing I had a cycled tank ready to go. I may just go get my limestone so I can practice stacking rocks while I'm figuring out this ledge. The wait will be worth it. Thanks again guys.


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Bike, I was following your tangent about Formica in kitchens. It would be nice to get fully back on topic, but boiling fish does not lead there.


My point was that formica can and is used for aquarium stands, cabinets, etc., because it is water resistant. The caveats are: don't burn , cut it or chip the formica away from the underlying particle board. 
For example:
http://www.centropyge.net/Fish-Tank-Aquarium-Stand-Laminate-Formica-Rectangular.html


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Appreciate all of your input!


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Update: Rented an inspection camera and confirmed the 2x4 framing that I thought(hoped) was under the ledge. 2x4's run front to back under the wood ledge and above the drywall ceiling of the closet below, so my bracing is supporting these 2x4's. I switched out the laminate particle board for plywood. I stacked 3 pieces of 1/2 inch plywood, so I now have 1.5" sturdy base. I then leveled with multiple shims. Now, the next problem: despite multiple attempts at adjusting the shims, I can't get the tank to sit flush. I have a few areas that are not in contact with the plywood. So, I figure I'm at a crossroads: either put a 1/2 inch piece of styrofoam insulation between the tank and plywood or buy a stand and put this tank in the basement. I actually don't mind option number 2, because the tank would get more viewing time anyway and water changes would be easier. However, I really wanted a tank in that spot, so I'm thinking that may be a good spot for a grow out/hospital tank or maybe a shellie tank: a couple of 10 gallons might look cool there. Thoughts?


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

If shims are not your thing, use leveling compound. Tack a form across the front, something like an extra long yardstick, leveling it, then pour in the leveling compound behind the form. If you use self leveling compound, gravity will level the compound for you. Once cured, remove the form. Set the plywood base on top and unless you have an out of square tank, (that is possible sadly) you won't need shims.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Good work on the forensic detecting! Assuming the plywood is level in both directions once shimmed, then maybe your tank is out of square, as McDaphnia has suggested? I'm not familiar enough with the risks of an out of square tank, to really recommend, but it seems to me if it is just a bit off, when you fill it with water, shouldn't it flex enough that you won't have any wobble? Failing that options, a 1/4 inch piece of foam would also seem to accomplish the self leveling.

Having put forth that uneducated opinion, and having recently succumbed to a case of MTS and Craigslist surfing, I'd say putting a couple 10 or even 20H tanks there would also be cool. Especially if you have 2 boys, as mine want a tank in their room, but there there is not much agreement on what color the substrate should be, what the deco should be, much less what fish they each want. I'm considering a similar double 10 (for a 40ish inch length over all, 2 x 20") or double 20H for 48ish inch length. HOB's probably sufficient for the smaller tanks, making them a little easier to set up. Then 33L goes on a stand in the basement, you can stock it with 1-2 Mbuna species or a nice set of Tang shellie/rock dwellers and enjoy it when you're down there as a show tank. I'm working towards a similar tang tank in a 40B, a 20g planted, dwarf puffer tank, a mostly empty 29G Iso/QT tank, and maybe a smaller planted community tank or 10G fry tank (assuming the fish get busy as they get older!). Some or all of those go in my garage, which will be the current fish room (til my 18 year old decides living with mom and dad has outlived its usefulness, then his space over the garage has classic man cave/fish room potential!).


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Agreed on the multiple tanks! I find myself daydreaming about what other tanks I could do, or thinking: oohh, a tank would look good there! And I don't even have my first up and running yet. Can't imagine what my house could potentially look like if I had the time and $. I'm just gonna have to make a decision soon and run with it, the styrofoam would prob. work. Imagining the worst just has me spooked though and now I'm over thinking it. I'll post the final, cycling tank. Good luck with your plans!


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Update: I think it's time to put this thread to rest. The biggest gap under the tank was quite small, not big enough to slide a credit card under. Decided to stick to the original plan and keep this tank in the bedroom. I placed a 3/16 inch piece of foam board under the tank for piece of mind. Used a thinner piece in case it does settle a little bit, didn't want to worry about it pushing up on the glass underneath. Should be plenty of clearance if that does happen. Thanks again for all the input and advice. The most common saying in my house: "Dad's on C-F again!"

Not cycling yet, working on some rock formations, harder than I expected, ran out of space pretty quick. Good chance I'll show up in the Malawi section for some stocking advice.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

boomer92 said:


> working on some rock formations, harder than I expected, ran out of space pretty quick. Good chance I'll show up in the Malawi section for some stocking advice.


I know, right? Totally found the same thing. With the lower height on your tank, you look like you have some good "anchor" rocks that will get you nearly to the water surface. The bad news might be you don't have as much vertical variation room as a deeper tank might. I think the set you have looks pretty good. I've found (to my surprise) that they will find (or dig out) caves/holes in places you totally didn't expect. My only real advice might be to have a few much smaller pieces that will be half buried or down front to give it a little more natural variation is the size. Adding the substrate (PFS?) will also make a huge difference. Will be looking for you in the stocking thread! Pretty stoked to see your progress!


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Agreed on some smaller rocks, I think I'm trying to scape this tank like it's bigger than it really is.


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## dbradley26 (Apr 22, 2014)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Bikeman48088 said:
> 
> 
> > Particle board, anything made of glue and sawdust or wood shavings, even MDO, will eventually swell from moisture under an aquarium. A little plastic will not make any difference. It is just a coating, at best a veneer, and there are no laminations (layers) showing in the particle board cut end.


I have a tank that has been sitting on a store bought stand made entirely out of MDF, it hasn't swelled, split my seems or cracked my tank going on 9 years now. Good majority of the stands I see in aquarium stores are made out of MDF. just sayin.


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Hey, thanks, good to know, new to the hobby so I'll take all the input I can get! Enjoyed your new 75 thread, looks nice.


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## dbradley26 (Apr 22, 2014)

Thanks. The ledge idea looks pretty cool. Wish my kids room had something like that for a tank. My wife is probably glad there isn't. =)


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

dbradley26 said:


> Mcdaphnia said:
> 
> 
> > Bikeman48088 said:
> ...


Be careful with your attribution. I'm on your side. I've used formica in wet applications for many, many years. I didn't say the above in bold.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Bikeman48088 said:


> *Particle board, anything made of glue and sawdust or wood shavings, even MDO, will eventually swell from moisture under an aquarium. A little plastic will not make any difference. It is just a coating, at best a veneer, and there are no laminations (layers) showing in the particle board cut end.*
> I have a tank that has been sitting on a store bought stand made entirely out of MDF, it hasn't swelled, split my seems or cracked my tank going on 9 years now. Good majority of the stands I see in aquarium stores are made out of MDF. just sayin.
> Be careful with your attribution. I'm on your side. I've used formica in wet applications for many, many years. I didn't say the above in bold.


[/quote]

That looks very close to what I would say. I was specific about the photo which showed particle board with raw exposed edges. Most pet shops in my area have pretty much stopped carrying the photo-covered particle board in favor of solid wood, plywood, and metal stands in contrast to where Bike lives. I have seen many kitchen and bath remodels from the underside, and the Formica can be pretty ugly under there. Even if on real plywood instead of reconstituted wood product. Formica is only resistant to water as long as the surface and seams are intact. One bad scratch, one loose seam, and eventually someone in my family may be getting to work on another remodel job.

There used to be a fish breeder here who built plywood 120 and 180 gallon tanks to house his pairs. He used Formica to seal them inside. Most of these tanks lasted for years. A few had the Formica start peeling off inside the tank, but he had used so much of the heat and pressure activated adhesive that the red stuff served as a water barrier and the tanks didn't leak, at least not right away. I had a six foot tank on a particle board stand in my living room. It looked good for years, but when I moved it, I could see damage concealed on the bottom and inside of the stand. As long as it stays high and dry particle board will be OK. It is not a big risk, but it is an unnecessary one. I had one of those weird 15 gallon cube tanks with a bottom that cracked. One soaking of the stand was enough to start it down the hill of destruction. I had several of them I got somehow, and the stands were only as good as how lucky they were to avoid water accidents.


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## dbradley26 (Apr 22, 2014)

Bikeman48088 said:


> Be careful with your attribution. I'm on your side. I've used formica in wet applications for many, many years. I didn't say the above in bold.


That's odd, I'm not sure how that happened. I agree with your original statement though, the unfinished edge would have been a concern. Most of the Fiber board stands I have seen have some type of coating, either laminate or painted. My stand gets wet quite often and after almost a decade of getting wet and supporting a good 750lbs, it's still looks as good as it did the day I bought it.


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