# ammonia too high! in storage tank



## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

Long story here, but I will summarize.

100 gal rubbermade storage tank; 
r/o water output is 9 ppm, tested for ammonia came back clean.

Added 12 tsp of baking soda & salt ( I forgot the name of it, to make the water harder ). 
Tested, ph 8.4 - 8.8 kinda of a lighter purple on api test. 
gh is 175 or abouts.

Added some cichlid essentials for more minerals, ( not sure if its needed, but first time dealing with ro water )
Ammonia tested for the first water change .25;

Added prime, waited 30 - 40 minutes, tested ok in tank. I already had done the water change when I tested for ammonia.

Now its been a week, fish are showing signs of mating.... first time .....

tested ammonia in storage tank getting ready to do another water change and its off the charts. I don't have the chart with me, but it has to be towards the end of the chart.. meaning death for the fish.

I'm stuck... do you think the cichlid essentials could be doing this ? or the new rubbermaid storage tank ? I wouldn't think the buffer mixture here on the site would cause it... but I need to do a water change, and don't want to kill my fish..

Any suggestions or answers anyone can provide would be helpful.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

After thinking about this whole deal. I am thinking it possibly could be some silicone ge 1 that I let sit for 24 hours, but majority of it was under a piece of glass so it may not have been dry. Would this leech ammonia into the storage tank ?

A little background on the glass, I needed something that my heaters & power heads would stick too in the storage tank, so I got two 12" x 12" sheets of glass, one came loose this past week, I may have noticed it around the same time as the ammonia issue, but not sure if it was unstuck before then. On both pieces of glass I put silicone around the edge of the glass and made a X on the inside and stuck it to the rubbermaid storage tank.


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

Why would you use ro water and then add buffer to raise Ph? That's a complete oxymoron


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## AulonoKarl (Mar 9, 2012)

The ammonia is coming from leftover food and fish poop, most likely. If your tank were cycled before you put fish in there, you wouldn't have a problem.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

Please see subject, storage tank, there is no fish food or fish waste in the storage tank.


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## reflexhunter (Jul 25, 2009)

AulonoKarl said:


> The ammonia is coming from leftover food and fish poop, most likely. If your tank were cycled before you put fish in there, you wouldn't have a problem.


I think he is talking about the water in his storage tank.

I wonder if you are getting a false reading from all the chemicals that you are adding to the water.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

jd lover said:


> Why would you use ro water and then add buffer to raise Ph? That's a complete oxymoron


I am using well water, conditions of the well water have changed to an undesirable state. The solution I was able to come up with has resolved one issue, but has presented another.

Please lets stay on topic, I'm trying to find out what is causing the ammonia to go above 0. Ro water tested for ammonia has tested 0.

So its either the buffer mixture I've had added to the tank, which I doubt is causing the ammonia issue. The storage tank, which people use for curing life rock and storage tanks, so I'm not sure if that is the issue. Possibly the silicone, I will empty the storage tank out tonight, scrap off the silicone on the loose piece of glass and fill it back up and test before and after I do anything with the water.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

I have thought about false reports. After the water change in the fish tank water tested for atleast .25 I added prime to help fight the increase of ammonia. I tried to do the same with the storage tank, ammonia levels increased. ( I have added 4 cap fulls of prime to the storage tank, no not all at once.) Last night I took some water out of the storage tank, put it in a 5 gal bucket. I plan to get some more prime today and see if I can't remove the ammonia once its removed from the source of the ammonia leech. Just an idea... I'm running out of them.

Chemicals I have added to the water are as follows: 
Kent R/O Right 
The Buffer Recipe listed on this site.
Kent Cichlid Essentials.

I have an email to Kent's to ask about the Essentials, but I truly feel since they are selling this to people, it wouldn't or shouldn't increase ammonia in any water source. I've been racking my brain about this issue all weekend.

ONLY solution I can come up with is to start over...


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

This is why I adjust my fish to my Water not my water to my fish.

My advice: remove one variable at a time


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

well removed both pieces of glass one had several spots of uncured silicone, but unsure if water was getting to it.

people say silicone is toxic uncured, but why? does it leech ammonia ? Because at these levels my fish would be dead for sure.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

prime binds ammonia to a non toxic state,it doesn't remove it


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

api test showed I had at least 8.0 ppm of ammonia in the storage tank.


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## reflexhunter (Jul 25, 2009)

Have you tested your water at the tap?


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

reflexhunter said:


> Have you tested your water at the tap?


Reflexhunter, I stated above that the water that is coming out of the ro unit has 0 ammonia.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

Update, cleaned up the sides of the storage tank, I could smell what could be ammonia where the silicone had not cured yet. I'm letting it go 48 hours after removing the glass to make sure its cured. I just hope that the rubbermaid tank does not soak up some of the uncured ammonia or whatever silicone is uncured and leech it in the water.

Tonight I will begin the 2 day process of filling it up with ro water. Plans are to let it fill it up 24 hours, then test the water before adding any chemicals.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

Well I started to fill up the storage tank (ST) and tested ammonia and it was once again not at 0. I barely even added any water, from the ro unit into the ST and bam.

So I again tested the water coming from the ro unit, tested 0 ammonia. 
Dried up the ST, removed the float valve from the setup and ran the ro line directly into the ST. Waited 5 - 10 minutes, I then tested the water in the ST, no ammonia. It appears I have found the cause, still unsure why, but it is the float valve. Will let it run over night and test it tomorrow night to see if something changes.


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## reflexhunter (Jul 25, 2009)

That's crazy weird, glad you found the cause though.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

Tested this morning and have more ammonia in the ST.

I'm running out of options, may return the fish to lfs this weekend.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

I would think the silicone if anything. They say to let that stuff cure an absolute minimum of 48 hours, preferably closer to a week for aquarium use. If you started filling at 24 hours, it certainly wasnt cured completely as you stated earlier. Was the storage tank new or did it ever have anything else housed in it?


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

Nope, new storage tank.

The only silicone left in the tank is what I used to plug the drain, it was leaking.

I may have to replace the bulkhead. But its been plugged for atleast a month.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

well removed the bulkhead and smelled it. there is an uncured silicone smell. Going to get a replacement bulkhead. I sure hope this resolves the issue.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

got my bulk head in yesterday, fits like a glove. I went to get my plug for the bulkhead today, will fill it with water tonight. I hope this ends this ammonia misery.

Lesson learned do not put silicone into spots where air is not able to hit it, chances are it won't cure and cause serious problems.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Looking forward to see if the problem reoccurs but I bet it was probably the uncured silicone that was causing the ammonia spike.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

Started to fill it with ro water, tested it, at least has .50 ppm of ammonia in the water. I have no idea what to do next, except return my fish for credit.

Review of issue:
straight RO water = no ammonia
ro water meter shows only 9 particles coming out of the ro unit. 
RO water in storage tank = ammonia 
No food or waste in the storage tank. 
No silicone except on a piece of glass that has been left out to try for a few days, majority of the silicone was cut off.
storage tank is a rubbermaid 100gal

Could the glass have something in it to leech ammonia ?

Lost one fish due to something earlier today, I'm guessing the lack of water changes since I do not have any good water to use.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

poured two cap fulls of prime in the storage tank to help detoxify the ammonia. Still getting .25 of ammonia, see image below.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

*removed the glass*
letting it run over night, will test it tomorrow night.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Silicone I will release acetic acid during the curing process. It has a strong vinegar smell that can cause damage to the lungs of workers who use it regularly and in large quantities. To solve this problem, silicone II was developed. I will release ammonia during the curing process, which is a lot less caustic, but could be the source of your problem.

Another option is that you have chloramine in the water. A regular dechlorinator will take care of the 'chlor', but the 'amine' will end up as ammonia. Oops, I just saw you have well water, so I guess we can rule this out.

At any rate, Prime will bind ammonia, and render it harmless for fish, but as far as I know it will still show up as ammonia in a test.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

So I should go ahead and do a water change and see what happens?


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

fmueller said:


> Silicone I will release acetic acid during the curing process. It has a strong vinegar smell that can cause damage to the lungs of workers who use it regularly and in large quantities. To solve this problem, silicone II was developed. I will release ammonia during the curing process, which is a lot less caustic, but could be the source of your problem.
> 
> Another option is that you have chloramine in the water. A regular dechlorinator will take care of the 'chlor', but the 'amine' will end up as ammonia. Oops, I just saw you have well water, so I guess we can rule this out.
> 
> At any rate, Prime will bind ammonia, and render it harmless for fish, but as far as I know it will still show up as ammonia in a test.


Other sources say the same thing, the ammonia that prime binds will still show up in ammonia test, but its no longer toxic. Seachem suggests to get their ammonia test kit.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

Well I ordered the test kit and not sure how to read it.. Anyone have experience with the Seachem Ammonia Kit ?

I did do a reference test and it seemed like it didn't change. So not sure if the kit is bad or not, box had dust on it when I received it.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I've used the Seachem kit, but not sure why you decided to use it. The API was telling you what you needed to know. The Seachem kit, if it's the same one that I have, will tell you how much of that ammonia is 'free', unbound ammonia. The API just gives you total ammonia. You don't need to know how much is free ammonia. There should be instructions with the kit, but from what I remember, you place a small 'disc' that comes with the kit in a sample of water and check for color change after a specified amount of time.

I would drain this tank and let the silicone cure, if that's the source of the ammonia.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

prov356 said:


> I've used the Seachem kit, but not sure why you decided to use it. The API was telling you what you needed to know. The Seachem kit, if it's the same one that I have, will tell you how much of that ammonia is 'free', unbound ammonia. The API just gives you total ammonia. You don't need to know how much is free ammonia. There should be instructions with the kit, but from what I remember, you place a small 'disc' that comes with the kit in a sample of water and check for color change after a specified amount of time.
> 
> I would drain this tank and let the silicone cure, if that's the source of the ammonia.


Well prov356 that is the thing, when I used prime to detoxify the ammonia, the api test kit still reports ammonia. Since the storage tank doesn't have any way of converting the total ammonia, it would always report there is ammonia in the storage tank.

Since this kit wasn't telling me anything, I went and purchase the free ammonia ( the one that you put inside your tank and says it will last for about a year), that reported 0.2 or lower of ammonia in the aquarium. Overwhelmed with frustration and unable to find an answer about the ammonia in my storage tank I have taken my fish to my lfs. I took the same ammonia test and put it in my storage tank, within minutes it went past .5. I haven't checked in the last day so it may have gone higher.

I was able to get a suggestion about the ammonia from the storage tank, from Kents Marine.

_Storage tanks can develop bacterial growths on the wet surfaces and if there is a bacterial die-off it can give off ammonia. Thoroughly clean the storage tank and refill with new water, then test it._

I plan on washing the storage tank with bleach and letting it sit out in the sun a few days to dry and rinse it a few times. Since I do not have the pressure of supplying my fish with clean water it is allowing me to isolate this problem and conquer it.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Well prov356 that is the thing, when I used prime to detoxify the ammonia, the api test kit still reports ammonia. Since the storage tank doesn't have any way of converting the total ammonia, it would always report there is ammonia in the storage tank.
> 
> Since this kit wasn't telling me anything,


I still don't understand why you needed to know 'free' ammonia amount rather than just if it's present or not in whatever form. If Prime fully detoxes and you use the Seachem kit to test for free only,then it'll give you a 0 reading when ammonia is still present. But, you're not using the Seachem test that I used. Does the Seachem tester say specifically that it's checking for 'free' ammonia only?

Bleaching will help if it's a bacteria die-off, but I've had a tank up and running two years without this problem. Never heard of it until now. Of course I haven't tested, maybe I should. I do rinse mine out on occasion. What you're doing is worth a try. At the very least, leave it sit long enough that any silicone completely cures also.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

prov356, I was informed that free ammonia is the most toxic, since prime will detox the ammonia I was doing tests on the water and it would still show ammonia. So knowing the toxic ammonia levels instead of total ammonia would help to know if the water was good for the aquarium or not.

Good thing is I have no more silicone in the tank. I have removed all of it and replaced the bulkhead and plugged it. I also removed the two sheets of glass I had in there as well. I have my rio 2100 on the bottom of the tank, using 1/2 cpvc to make the water from the pump got the surface for circulation. An idea I got from looking at UGJ.

If the bleach thing doesn't work, not sure what I will do. I do have a 55 gal drum I was using before I wanted more water in my storage tank.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> prov356, I was informed that free ammonia is the most toxic, since prime will detox the ammonia I was doing tests on the water and it would still show ammonia. So knowing the toxic ammonia levels instead of total ammonia would help to know if the water was good for the aquarium or not.


'Free' ammonia is the only form that's toxic. And how toxic depends on temp and pH as well. There are charts out there that can show the free amount if you know temp and pH. Most ammonia is 'bound' at a low pH. See this info.

Not sure about Prime, but I've tested Ammolock and it does detox up to 3ppm as advertised. I'd recommend it over Prime which tosses in all the slime enhancer non-essential kind of stuff. If you use a good detox product and your biofiltration is up to snuff, then you'll be ok. Many who have chloramines in their tap deal with this all the time. But, like you, I'd want to know the source of the ammonia. But, I have a feeling that it was the silicone.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

I'll post back in a few days after letting it sit with bleach in it and rinsing it out several times.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

still letting the tank sit with bleach. Question though, we have cats near my storage tank, but not in the same room. Would their urine ( gas ) contaminant the water ? Their physical urine\spray won't reach the tank.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

pharrix said:


> still letting the tank sit with bleach. Question though, we have cats near my storage tank, but not in the same room. Would their urine ( gas ) contaminant the water ? Their physical urine\spray won't reach the tank.


No, the room probably would be uninhabitable before that would happen.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

Storage tank still has ammonia.

Anyone have any suggestions on neutralizing it. I can add prime to my sump, but I will never know 100% if it is at toxic levels atleast with an api test kit anyways.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

pharrix said:


> Storage tank still has ammonia.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on neutralizing it. I can add prime to my sump, but I will never know 100% if it is at toxic levels atleast with an api test kit anyways.


Ammolock will bind up 3ppm of ammonia. I've tested that with the Seachem kit. As long as API is reading < 3ppm, you can be confident. I'd stay away from Prime. Just use something like Ammolock that resolves your issue of ammonia without adding all the gimmicky 'extras' you don't need like slime enhancers, etc. What's your ammonia reading? After using the water, make regular tests of the tank to see how fast your biofiltration deals with it. You can get by this way.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

If you used GE Silicone I, you should not smell ammonia, as it is an acetic acid cure. If you used GE Silicone II, you might smell ammonia as it is an ammonia cure.


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## pharrix (May 26, 2011)

right now seachem reads .5ppm, but thats the highest it will go. I will test with api tonight, then I'll post results.

I may pick up some lock stuff today. I tried the seachems ammonia kit with the little pads, it wouldn't give me good results. Usually ended up with a purple color state.


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