# New to cichlids - where to start?



## Sakaane (Jul 27, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I've been keeping freshwater tropical fish for a few years but the only cichlid I've ever had in the mix is a female Mikrogeophagus ramirezi in a community tank. She's done well (I still have her).

I'm interested in getting more cichlids but know nothing about them. I like how they are often more colorful than "regular" tropicals. On another forum I visit one of the members keeps gorgeous Lake Victoria fish--wow! I'd love to keep fish like that.

I have an empty 33g that I'd like to populate. What are some good cichlids for a cichlid beginner like me? I need to put the GBR in this tank so they'd have to be compatible with her and I'd like to get her a mate at least. The tank would have a sand bottom and ideally I'd like it planted too. My water tends to hang around a pH of 8.

Many thanks for the help!


----------



## Sakaane (Jul 27, 2008)

^^; My bad. I hadn't looked around the site much yet when I posted and now I've found the cookie-cutter and recommended beginner species articles in the Library.

In the cookie cutter article there are no recommended setups for 33g tanks so I looked at the 29G ones. The Victoria & Malawi Combo caught my eye--the _Haplochromis sp. "Ruby Green"_ are very nice!

I wasn't that keen about the _Metriaclima livingstonii_ though. I don't really want to litter my tank with shells. But I have no idea what I could substitute from the beginners species list. Does it matter so long as the recommended tank size doesn't exceed 33g? What about a couple of _Labidochromis caeruleus (Kakusa)_ instead?


----------



## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

You could skip throught the beginners species list as long as you do your research so that you can properly care for them. You can get other species even if a larger tank is recommended, you just need to make sure to keep a smaller colony and have a comfortable atmosphere to keep the fish happy. Anything that is overly agressive fish that you might want should only have 1 male to prevent territory battles. Also if your tank is longer rather than taller you can keep more fish because the footprint of the tank is larger meaning more area for hideouts.


----------



## Sakaane (Jul 27, 2008)

Good to know, thanks!

The tank is 36"L x 12"D x 18.5"H. Guess I'll have to do some reading now. : )


----------



## Sakaane (Jul 27, 2008)

So...I've done some reading. I also have a 55g--obviously my choices and setup potential would expand if I used that tank over my 33g. But is trying to keep cichlids in such a large tank a good idea for someone who hasn't kept them before? I would still be choosing more or less from the "recommended beginners" list, and have some ideas, but feedback would be great.


----------



## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

There is no doubt that a smaller tank would be easier to manage. However you should do what you believe your are capable of managing. Even with a 55 you should add fish slowly to keep balanced nitrate and ammonia levels. After adding fish and keeping everything balanced you should decide if it is to much to handle now. Or you can handle more in which case you could continue to add more SLOWLY. Its all about what you put back into it.


----------



## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Your 33 gallon would make a nice planted cichlid tank. I basically have two of these. You could get a mate for your ram and maybe add one angel. You could then get a school of tetras, some cory cats and a bristlenose pleco. It's a very nice tank -- peaceful and colorful.

For a 55 gallon African tank, you should look at a nice male show tank of smaller peacocks, with a trio of labs and several synodontis. Also a nice tank. Actually a bit easier to deal with than a planted tank. A 55 limits you with Africans, but it can still work.


----------



## Sakaane (Jul 27, 2008)

I don't want to keep both tanks.

The 55g is established (about two years) but I can sell the current stock and get rid of the 33g. Or, the 33g is empty but I would use the filters and some of the other equipment from the 55g and sell the rest.

If I stay with the 55g my thinking would be to still use the Victoria & Malawi Combo cookie cutter setup for the 29g but increase the stocking numbers and substitute another type of fish for the _Metriaclima livingstonii_.


----------



## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

bac3492 said:


> There is no doubt that a smaller tank would be easier to manage.


Actually, the 55 would be easier to manage than the 30 gallon. Larger volumes tend to stay more stable, though you do need to change out more water during cleanings. Large tanks also have a better footprint to help deal with aggression. Finally, the larger tank opens up many more possibilities for stocking.

The downside is that your dwarf South American may not do very well with African Cichilds, though this is not related to the size of the tank.

I would use the 55 gallon, and keep the 30 in storage. There are cookie cutters for the larger tank as well.


----------



## Jonz'n (Apr 14, 2004)

I would have to agree, the larger tank would overall be a better option. I had a 35g, went to a 55g and now have upgraded again. If you don't mind a little extra time when you go through the usual cleaning. Added amount of water to change and surface area to scrub, I'd go with the larger tank. Sooo much less aggression, more options on what fish and how many. The whole deal.


----------



## Sakaane (Jul 27, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback!

I will go with the 55g. It measures 48.25"L x 12.75"D x 21"H. It has a sand bottom, is reasonably planted, and decorated with a bit of driftwood and DIY slate caves.

I run two AC 70s (sponges only) for filtration and I have a Maxi-Jet 600 Power Head for added circulation. My water tends to have a pH of 8 and according to the city the water's hardness as CaCO3 ranges from 129-256mg/L (TDS of 164-304mg/L). We always talk about how hard the water is here so hopefully cichlids will like it!

I've looked at some profiles on this site and have interest in the following fish:


Paralabidochromis chromogynos
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1577

Pundamilia nyererei (Makobe Is.)
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1568

Haplochromis sp. "Ruby Green"
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1558

Haplochromis sp. "Dayglow"
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1576

Pseudotropheus saulosi
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1

Xenotilapia papilio (Tembwe Deux)
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2039

Xenotilapia flavipinnis
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2034

Xenotilapia ornatipinnis
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2031

Tropheus sp. "Black" (Siyeswe)
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1913

Pseudotropheus socolofi
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=919

Cyprichromis leptosoma (Mpulungu)
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1467

Obviously I probably can't stock all of these, but they all interest me for their looks and based on the stats listed in the profiles they more or less are the same size, temperament, and have similar tank requirements (pH, temp, water hardness).

As stated if I can get away with it I'd like to try keeping my German Blue Ram and I also have a pitbull pleco that I'd like to keep as well. If it doesn't work out I'll be prepared to rehome them. A pair of _Synodontis petricola_ would be really awesome additions too.

These fish are from different locations so I understand mixing might be an issue. Ideally I want one or more of the Lake Victoria types as "centerpiece" with others to compliment. Help with creating a stocking list would be really appreciated.


----------



## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I don't do the fish you've got listed, but it looks to me like a recipe in disaster. You really need to primarily pick from one lake (with the exception of the synodontis, which go fine in a Malawi tank). You could do a mbuna tank (your saulosi and socolofi) or you could do a Lake Tang tank or you could also do a male peacock show tank (not any listed). But under no circumstances will your blue ram survive in an African tank. She'll need to be rehomed. Some folks do put plecos in their African tanks, although there appears to be some mortality associated with that, from what I've read. (I don't do it.)

BTW, usually African tanks aren't planted (get dug up) or using driftwood (which softens the water.)


----------



## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

Here are a couple more things to consider when making a stock list for your tank:
Are the fish in your list available in your area? 
Can/will the local fish store order them for you?
Or are you going to have them shipped to you from an online order?


----------



## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

Sakaane said:


> Paralabidochromis chromogynos
> http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1577


This is a very aggressive fish. You would likely need to make this a species only with a single male. Not really a beginner species.



> Pundamilia nyererei (Makobe Is.)
> http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1568


This fish could be kept with mild mbuna or peaocks, but not with other Victorians (vics) due to crossbreeding.



> Haplochromis sp. "Ruby Green"
> http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1558


Same as above



> Haplochromis sp. "Dayglow"
> http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1576


Same as above



> Pseudotropheus saulosi
> http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1


A mildly agressive mbuna, should be fine with one of the Vics above (not P. chromogynos)



> Xenotilapia papilio (Tembwe Deux)
> http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2039


Not compatible with any other fish on this list but Cyps. Only one of this Genus per tank.



> Xenotilapia flavipinnis
> http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2034


Same as above



> Xenotilapia ornatipinnis
> http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2031


Same as above



> Tropheus sp. "Black" (Siyeswe)
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1913


Too aggressive for a 55 gallon, should be kept in a minimum 75 gallon as a single species.



> Pseudotropheus socolofi
> http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=919


 Could be kept with Ps. saulosi and/or one of the Vics.



> Cyprichromis leptosoma (Mpulungu)
> http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1467


 Only if this is not a Jumbo species, and even then only with the Xenos from this list.


----------



## Sakaane (Jul 27, 2008)

I _did_ say I knew I wouldn't be able to stock all of those fish; those are just the ones I was interested in, to see if some sort of combination is possible. Gotta start somewhere, hey? Thanks for the comments all the same.

Plants and things I can always sell/trade or let the fish eat if they want. If I really have to get rid of my GBR I will, but on the other hand maybe I'll sneak her into my 20g when my spouse isn't looking. ; )

Anyway, there's actually a Victoria Basin breeder not far from where I live. Some of the other cichlids are available from other local hobbyists or my LFS. Pretty lucky!

*Dave*, thanks so much for your feedback, it was really helpful and exactly the kind of information I wanted. I understand how crossbreeding would be an issue. It's too bad about the ones that are totally incompatible but I can always keep them in mind for future projects.

I think availability will be best for the Ruby Greens or the Dayglows, and probably I would find _P. saulosi_ more easily than _P. socolofi_, but we'll see. Based on Dave's feedback I can refine my choices:


Haplochromis sp. "Ruby Green" *OR* Haplochromis sp. "Dayglow" *OR* Pundamilia nyererei (Makobe Is.)

*AND*

Pseudotropheus saulosi *OR* Pseudotropheus socolofi

*AND*

Synodontis petricola

Starting to look better? Is there perhaps a fourth species I haven't considered that could be added? I'm partial to having lots of color and variety.

If a fourth species would be pushing it what sort of stocking numbers could I consider with what is listed?


----------



## Sakaane (Jul 27, 2008)

I've done more poking around. : ) There are so many cichlids to choose from! The more reading I do the more fish I come across that I like.

It seems to me that one can't always have a single-lake tank. Everything I've read about Victorians so far says they really can't be kept together in a given tank because they'll crossbreed, which is a huge no-no. So if I want to keep a Vic I also need to find fish from somewhere else.

My first choice Vic is still the "Ruby Greens". It's been indicated to me that they might be too soft for the other cichlids I listed previously, so I Googled "peaceful cichlids" and found some helpful results. So how about this rough plan?


_Haplochromis sp._ "Ruby Green" *AND*

_Labidochromis caeruleus_ (Kakusa) â€" Electric Yellow Lab *AND*

Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos - Maingano *AND*

_Aulonocara (Rubescens)_ - Ruby Red Peacock *OR* _Aulonocara stuartgranti_ (Cobue) *OR* _Aulonocara hueseri_ - Midnight Peacock *AND*

Synodontis petricola
Would this be too many individual groups? I was assuming 1M/3F of each of the first four plus 3 synos, which would be 19 fish total. None of these fish are larger than 5". My first choice of the _Aulonocara_ are the Ruby Reds. Also, when I read about _M. cyaneorhabdos_ they were often listed as a "mildly aggressive" species--would they be too much for the others?


----------



## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

If you are looking at groups, 3 is usually a good number for a 55, but you might be able to get away with 4.

I do not see any major issues, but there is no guarantee.

Also, you are not likely to find the specific collection point for yellow labs. They are pretty ubiquitous in the hobby. Just look for fish that are bright yellow with no barring.


----------



## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

About your final list, ps saulosi and socofoli are great fish with good temperments, and i would recomend them for any setup. They might be able too work together but if you only want one i would go with the saulosi because of the yellow females, they add great color to tanks. I dont really know haps so i wont bother. Synodontis are good but so are plecos (up to you) and good choice going with the 55g.

Good luck


----------

