# Oceanic Model One Sump



## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

I haven't been able to find much information on this sump, be it on the reviews page, the general discussion page, or via google. Does anyone know much about it? Without actually giving any reviews, can someone just tell me

1. What the model one is rated for in terms of flow?
2. Anywhere I can find info on it (e.g. general product details with pictures of what typically comes with the sump and reviews)?


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## Rockydog (Oct 21, 2007)

The one in the center is the Oceanic 1 -- 24.5x12.5x17.5. From what I can determine it has a 3/4" inlet. Couldn't find my flow rate chart but a 1" overflow is approx 600 gal/hr, so say approx 500 gph for 3/4".










As you can see the inlet chamber is on the left accepting water from the tank overflow. In the center chamber you could put a heater and in the right hand chamber is where the return pump would be. You would want a pump that returns approx 80 to 90% of the overflow (400 to 450 gph).

Here is the website of the manufacturer http://www.oceanicsystems.com/.

It's a pretty basic system, not worth approx $350 that might be suitable for a 50 gal tank. Can't see into the bio chamber so not sure if there is any room for prefilter material.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

Thanks for the info. When I tried clicking any of the options on their website for filtration (e.g. sumps, plumbing etc.) it said " No results. Please choose a category or brand. " So their website wasn't too helpful, but your information was very helpful.

It is very basic and it is on the smaller side. I too would rather build my own than pay that, but I managed to pick up two of them on craigslist for $50 each. No bioballs or plumbing (and obviously no pump) but they seemed, and hopefully are, pretty much perfect for what I'd like to use them for: one for a 75G tank and one for two 33G tanks hooked up to the same sump.


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

The Oceanic Model 1 has been out of production for a while...it is a retired product, which is why you won't find a lot of information about it. I don't think that these units sold all that well...I've never seen one in real life.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

I'm not surprised. It's simplicity is definitely appealing as this is really all you need for a well run sump and at the price I got it for is little more than the costs of putting together a cheap DIY sump with plastic materials, but the idea that oceanic tried to sell these things for hundreds of dollars is...well...like you said, they're out of production. For these companies to sell wet/drys they have to make them look snazier so people don't go "hey, even i could build this!"


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I am afraid vaypourus is incorrect. The Oceanic Model 1 sump is very much in production still. In fact a production run was just completed to support the Oceanic 57 gallon Illuminata aquarium for which the model 1 sump is recommended.
The inlet is a single 1" bulkhead. It is rated up to 700 gph but I have actually run almost 1000 gph through it. This is without the biochamber as the splashing would be too great at that high a flow and the noise would be unbearable. When I worked at That Fish Place we sold them for a little over $200 as complete kits with the plumbing kit, glass canopy, and biochamber. But that was several years ago. DIY will always be cheaper but that is because noone ever figures in the time they put in to build the project.

Andy Hudson
Central Aquatics
Research and Development


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Narwhal72 said:


> I am afraid vaypourus is incorrect. The Oceanic Model 1 sump is very much in production still. In fact a production run was just completed to support the Oceanic 57 gallon Illuminata aquarium for which the model 1 sump is recommended.


Apparently there is a conflict of information. My local LFS informed me that the Model 1 was replaced with a newer unit. A friend recently set up a 75 gallon drilled tank and went to the LFS with a list of sumps he was interested in buying. The Model 1 was his top pick on the list (along with an eShopps sump) due to its very reasonable price but was informed that it was OOP. He then tried finding it online and was told the same on the phone. I'm not calling you a liar, but I haven't seen this sump for sale new anywhere. It isn't even listed on their website.

Maybe you can enlighten us where to get it? Inquiring minds want to know!


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

narwhal72, what's the GPH one could run on the sump with the biochamber and with it being virtually silent?


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

vaypourus- I am afraid your lfs is guilty of either trying to steer your friend into a sump they had in stock or one they have a higher margin on. I can't say I blame them in this economy. Oceanic is one of Central's brands and I have intimate knowledge of the product line. It is also on the website www.oceanicsystems.com right there in the Filtration section there are several pictures and a listing. You won't find this product through online retailers as it is glass and noone will ship it. It is only available at brick and mortar stores.

cholile- I would run about 400-500 gph (equivalent of a Mag drive #9.5 or Aqueon 4000 at 5' head) to keep it really quiet. One trick to help reduce noise is to use a 90 degree elbow on top of the inlet to keep the drain hose from looping and causing the line to surge. No sump is absolutely quiet. There is simply too much air/water interaction going on. But you can reduce it.

Andy Hudson
Central Aquatics (Oceanic, Aqueon, Kent, Coralife, and Zilla)
R&D


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Yeah, I have seen the pictures but there is not information about it on the site. Their website says "no products found". If there is a listing for it, I'm not seeing it. This is what I see:










The local LFS was probably not informed about this...they did not direct him to another sump and he ended up leaving empty handed. The local LFS that I frequent isn't very pushy...they cater to consumers with high end systems.

Since you have knowledge of the product, can you tell me where it can be found? I'd like to see it.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

thanks andy.

I've been relying on this website to gauge the appropriate mag drive to use. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumP ... FQoddAv7SA It seems to indicate a mag 9.5 at 5' is 720 gph. You think that's wrong?

Inlet = drain into sump right? I can never keep the terminology straight. I know it won't be totally silent, but I've seen many systems where you really need to listen carefully to hear it once the stand doors are closed.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

vaypourus- Not sure how to answer your question. Your going to have to find it in a store that carries it. I may know the product but I don't know the stores in the Rochester NY area. Since it's not sold online you won't find much information from online retailers. Any of these stores could purchase the sumps from their Central or Royal distributors.

cholile- it all depends on what type of plumbing arrangement you have. But IME in most situations the net water flow from a 9.5 is much less than 720 gph at 5'. And yes the inlet would be the drain into the sump. The stand can make a big difference in noise reduction. But are the same filters silent with the doors open? If noise is the major issue in the setup you could alway's go smaller and use a Mag drive 5 or 7 or Aqueon 3000 or 3500. The slower the flowrate the less turbulence is created which is what makes the noise.

Andy


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## frofan (Jun 29, 2009)

I have a Model 1 that has been used for 4 months that I'm getting ready to sell. The sump is in like new condition, and comes with the entire kit (Bio balls were never used). I also have a pump that works perfectly with the megaflow overflow system and this sump. I could meet you in Batavia if you are interested in purchasing.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

Had it for four months and ready to sell? Not quite a ringing endorsement


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## frofan (Jun 29, 2009)

I was very happy with it. The reason I'm selling is because I'm moving it from under my stand into the basement, hence why I also have a pump for sale. With everything being in the basement, I have a lot more room, and want to build a custom sump / fuge.


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Frofan - I was more interested in seeing how it was setup, as I don't have a need for one yet. I'll drop my friend a line and tell him that you have one for sale. If he bites (no fish pun intended) I'll drop you a PM.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

Well I finally got around to trying to use this sump and so far not good. The only issue is the noise, but it is loud.

I will try to take pictures later, but right now I have the bulkheads in the tank draining ultimately into the 1.25" pipe, with 90 degree elbows. The loud sounds are the water flowing through the drain pvc pipes and the water splashing onto the mechanical filtration above the biochamber.

Oh, and the flow is not even as much as I'd like as I am using a mag 7 and even having some of the water recirculated within the sump so that the mag 7 is probably not pushing to the tank more than a mag 5, at most.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

You only want to recirculate back to the sump what your drains cannot handle. The closer you get to maximum flow in your drains the quieter they become.

A 90Ã‚Â° elbow right at the bulkhead is a big cause of turbulence and restriction in your drains. Better to use a sweep, you can find them in 1-1/4 inch online at flexpvc.com. Or get 1-1/2" sweep at a local comercial pool supply and reduce down.

If your drains are making noise you might want to put a valve on them and restrict the flow a bit to quiet them down. Or get a larger pump and get more volume to them.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

Thanks fox. I don't quite understand. It sounds like you are saying I should have more flow and restrict flow at the same time.

Also, instead of the 90 degree elbows what should I use? I'm about as non-handy as they come, so a pic of the specific item with a description would be very helpful. Thanks


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

No I am saying one or the other. You need to fill the drain to quiet it.

_IF_ you open your drain completely and do not bypass the supply back to the sump ... if the level in the DT does not rise your drains can handle more. Get a larger pump or add another pump to your existing one. Fine tune with bypass.

_OR_ you are pump constrained (the drain is open completely and the DT level is not rising) then you close the drain very slowly until you see the level lower in the sump and at the same time rise in the DT. It will balance ... trick is to *balance it before it overflows the DT* ... once you balance it out, open the drain a bits and you will hear a little noise but you are giving yourself headroom :wink:

Here is a link to 90Ã‚Â° sweeps. You can find them locally at comercial irragation/ pool supplies and save on shipping but 1-1/4 sweeps are not ubiquitous. Put a barb in one end and a piece of clear vinyl tubing between it and the bulkhead and you will be able to tune/ balance out the airbubbles using this as a site window. :thumb:

http://www.flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?p ... rsSweep90s


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

What does DT stand for?

Also, I don't have the 90 degree elbow right at the bulkhead. There is first another attachment or two (not sure the right term and am struggling to get pictures onto this site). The drain in the overflow box is only 1" (I think they're 1". They definitely are not the larger 1.25") so I have a piece that goes from 1" to 1.25" for the piping to allow the water to drain.

Are you saying that instead I should just use the same size and not the larger pipes?

I'll try to get pictures. Not sure if it will help you, but it would definitely help me understand what I am doing and what I should be doing instead.

Finally, I really cannot restrict the flow any more. If anything, I would want more flow, but I cannot really do that because then I end up with a gurgling sound that is very loud in the overflow box. I have a durso drain (or whatever the term is) with a hole at the very top, almost level with the overflow, and a silencer of sorts on that pipe as well that lets air escape so I don't think there is anything more I can do on that front.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

Links to pictures

http://www1.snapfish.com/snapfish/views ... /otsi=SPNR

http://www1.snapfish.com/snapfish/views ... /otsi=SPNR

http://www1.snapfish.com/snapfish/views ... /otsi=SPNR

http://www1.snapfish.com/snapfish/views ... /otsi=SPNR

As I said, the problems are (1) water flowing through the drain pipe and (2) water splashing from the drain pipe onto the mechanical filtration.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

*D*isplay *T*ank :wink:

The worst part of a sump is in the details. Using 1-1/4" pvc is not the problem, not using its full potential is. You can match the flow thru the pvc by installing a ball valve in that horizontal section between the two 90's and restricting it very slowly until it just balances with the pump, then open it a bit.

That horizontal section is prolly trapping air also, you might want to find a way to get a little pitch there. The 90Ã‚Â° right at the bulkhead is adding turbulence, mebbe a sweep might help but see if you can tweak with what you have. I keep my durso as high as I can. almost hitting the glass top, that quiets down the overflow some.

Add some more batting under the outflow and it should quiet it a bit there.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

Actually, I just checked and it is 1.5"

The durso is is touching the top of the glass. That's as high as I can get it. The noise up there is not too bad.

Also, there is a lot of padding where the water is hitting. It is hard for me to isolate that noise, so maybe if the draining of water nose was removed the flowing of water out of the drain and into the sump wouldn't sound too bad.

So, it sounds like the most important thing for me to do, and the only thing identified that I know I can change, is to

1. have the long 1.5" pipe angled more downward
2. get a ball valve at some point b/w the two 90 degree elbows and adjust it until I am able to minimize the noise. By finding the right balance I will be basically allowing all the water to rush into the pipe but little to no air and little to no room for water to "bounce around" in the pipe and therefore it will be quiet (or at least a lot quieter).
3. consider a sweep - what about two elbows that are angled a bit wider? (e.g. 135 degrees, if such a thing exists?) that would make the angle a little less exaggerated and also make the pipe in between angle more downward rather than flat right (solving 1)? does this make sense?

Do I understand what you're suggesting? Thanks for all your help.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Yes put that B/V in and see what difference that makes first. Work with what you have before getting more elbows or sweeps. You might not need them.

I like to use a small length of flexible tubing at that bulkhead, clear vinyl preferably, to keep shocks being transmitted back to the tank bottom. It also allows for little angle alignments in the plumbing and might allow for a slight bit of pitch in that horizontal section. A benefit of using clear is you can see bubbles propagating in the line when fine tuning.

Any good irragation supply should be able to set you up with a barb and fitting necessary to connect that elbow or sweep to the bulkhead with clear tubing.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

Well, I just typed a lot and, of course, lost it all, so I'll try again. I've reread everything you wrote and I'm not sure I fully understood your points when I asked my follow-up questions so let me try again now that I have a somewhat better understanding (I think).

I have 3 main problems:
a) noise from water as it drains through the pvc pipe (this is the biggest problem)
b) noise as the water splashes from the drain onto the mechanical filtration (also a fairly big problem)
c) noise from gurgling in the durso pipe where the overflow is when the pump is being fully utilized (not too bad, but if an easy way to lessen the noise that'd be great)

So--regarding problem a) (drain pipe noise):

1. The key point you were making, if I understood correctly, is that the quietest is when the water consumes everything in the drain pipes and there is virtually no room for air. Of course if the pipe is too small then the water can't get in it and the water rises in the display tank and spills over the tank. So the key is to find just the right size so that the pipes are filled almost entirely with water, but all the water that needs to flow through so the level of water in the display tank does not rise.

If that is right, then I noticed that I have a 1" bulkhead and the vertical portion of the drain is 1" pipe. So would it make sense then to get rid of the 1.5" pvc drain pipes and replace them with 1" elbows and 1" horizontal piece of pvc?

2. Instead of 90 degree elbows if I could get 135 degrees elbows, the less exaggerated angle for the flow of water would help too. If this would help, would it help significantly or minimally?

3. Similarly, if instead of the nearly horizontal drain pipe I have now, the pipe was more angled that too would help. Again, if that's right that this would help, would it help significantly or minimally? (the only way I see that I could do this was if I got elbows that were not 90 degrees, but more like 135 degrees, or if instead of pvc elbows there is some kind of piece I can use that is more flexible)

Regarding problem b) (splashing sound)

1. If instead of having the water fall vertically from the elbow onto the mechanical filtration I had the water fall onto the mechanical filtration via a horizontally placed pipe that had holes drilled into it (can you drill into pvc?) so that the water was flowing out of lots of small holes rather than from one large hole, would that alleviate the splashing noise some?

Anything else I can do?

Regarding problem c) (gurgling)

Any ideas?


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

You can keep the 1-1/2" pvc. Put a ball valve or gate valve in that horizontal section of pipe and close it very slowly until the flow thru the valve matches the flow thru the durso. Then open it a bit. This will prolly quiet down the durso also.

If you try to tweak too many things at once you will be guessing at what is working and what is getting worst.

I would not worry too much about 135Ã‚Â° elbows. Instead look locally for a 1-1/2" 90Ã‚Â° sweep.

The easiest way to get some pitch on that horizontal section is to use a very small length of flexible tubing imediately after the bulkhead. Preferrably clear tubing.

Do one tweak at a time, mebbe a good start would be the valve :wink: That might be the only tweak needed :wink:


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

I'm confused here.

How does the ball valve help? One of the problems now seems to be that the water flows right through that large drain and sloshes around with all that room + air. So what will a ball valve do other than make it so less water flows through? If the whole point is to make it so there is less room for air then what does a ball valve accomplish? And why would a ball valve on the horizontal section of the drain pipe impact the gurgling sound all the way at the top of the durso in the overflow at the top of the tank?

Also, how would the flexible tubing at the top of the bulkhead help the pitch? are you saying that I would get rid of everything I have in the horizontal section where the bulkhead is and use this? how would that work instead of the threaded piece I have now which ensures no leaks or spills?


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

This really should not be this difficult to explain so mebbe I am not the one to try and describe it.

You are trying to move x amount of water thru a 1" gravity drain into a 1-1/2" conduit with the least amount of turbulence.

The 1" drain will not match the 1-1/2" ability to flow so you need to restrict the 1-1/2" horizontal section to match the flow from your 1" gravity drain. BallVAlve in the 1-1/2" horizontal section will give you the ability to match the flow allowed thru the 1-1/2" section to that from the 1" gravity drain. Once you have it perfectly matched ... open it up some. The water after the BV will not be turbulent and will quiet up the drip tray area and the air will not be trapped in the 1-1/2" section gurgling back up thru the durso. Still confused :wink:

Use a small length of flexible tubing to connect the bulkhead drain to the first pvc ftg. This will isolate any shocks from bumping going back to the tank bottom. _And_ allow for some minor flexibility in that horizontal section ... this is a good thing to do for piece of mind. You can get ftg's to allow pvc to accept tubing or use flexible pvc and glue in place. I like to have the ability to remove this connection so I use a barb fitting on the first piece of pvc and clamp the tube to the bulkhead.

I wish you luck with your set up. :thumb:


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

I don't fully understand (yup, I'm just that dumb), but here are my questions:

1. The bottom line is that you recommend using a ball valve somewhere along the 1.5" horizontal piece. Is there a specific place where this should go? If so, where? just after the first elbow? just before the last elbow right before the water drains into the sump? Somewhere else?

2. Is there a reason not to just get new pvc pieces for the drains that are all 1"? Should that, in theory, solve the problem just as well as a ball valve?


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

cholile said:


> 1. The bottom line is that you recommend using a ball valve somewhere along the 1.5" horizontal piece. Is there a specific place where this should go? If so, where? just after the first elbow? just before the last elbow right before the water drains into the sump? Somewhere else?


I am not sure it really matters where you locate that valve. I have heard others say to locate it close to the bulkhead but none of mine are set up that way. In the middle or closer to the bulkhead is prolly the safe way to go.



> 2. Is there a reason not to just get new pvc pieces for the drains that are all 1"? Should that, in theory, solve the problem just as well as a ball valve?


Try it, let us know how that works out for you :wink:

I would keep the 1-1/2" myself. Going to 1" will only put a physical constraint on your drain that you cannot control, the more you can flow thru that drain until it balances out the more water you can filter. :roll:


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