# Sump return straight to UGJ



## Vadimshevchuk (May 23, 2009)

I'm gonna run down to lowes tomorrow for pvc for my tank so i need to get a plan.

I have a sump on my 90 gallon and my return is a quiet one 4000 1" return. My question is after i get 1" pvc going down into my tank should i reduce the pipeing to 3/4 or 1/2" or should it be straight 1" down to the substrate and then when i split it off into jets reduce the size? Im not sure on what would be the best way to obtain good flow and since my head is 4 ft will head loss count if the water is being feed down 2'? Thanks guys!!

Also does lowes by any chance carry white PFS?


----------



## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

I'd leave the return pipe as large as possible for as long as possible, if I were looking for maximum return flow.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


----------



## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

I agree with Rick, I had a lot of trouble keping flow rate high when mine reduced at the edge of the tank. Initially, I tried 3/4 inch from the pump to the tank, where a bulkhead fitting made me go to 1/2, which I ran from the tank edge all the way to the jets.

Flow was pathetic, almost undetectable.

Then I opened up the return line to 1 inch, and the bulkheads to 3/4, and ran that all the way.
Flow rate: pathetic again.

Finally, i ran 1.5" from the pump to the beginning of the jets inside the tank, then I dropped to 3/4. I was worried about keeping 1.5 or even 1 inch plumbing covered, so I necked it down at the start of the jet piping. Flow rate is great. Pump is a Mag 24, head height about 5 feet, 100 gallon main tank with 8 jets, probably end up with 9 or so. I plan a two valve T fitting for water changes and to take a bit of flow off the UGJs if I need it.

Are you running a closed loop for the jets? That was the one thing that seemed to raise the pressure and equalize it among the circuit of jets.


----------



## Vadimshevchuk (May 23, 2009)

I will be running closed loops about 8 jets also. (2 every ft) Well my return is 1" and im planning on using a soft plumbing for the frist ft so i get reduction in vibration noise, then should i use an adapter from 1" to lets say 1 1/2 to get the maximum flow? What pvc size should the tubing be for jets? I have 3/4" pvc and lots of it.


----------



## Andy Somnifac (Jun 1, 2005)

The other thing to consider if you're running your sump return straight to UGJ: What happens during a power outage when the pump is no longer running?


----------



## Vadimshevchuk (May 23, 2009)

anti siphon hole.... im drilling 2 :lol:


----------



## Andy Somnifac (Jun 1, 2005)

Vadimshevchuk said:


> anti siphon hole.... im drilling 2 :lol:


Just checking if you'd thought of it. I didn't see mention of it in the OP.


----------



## Vadimshevchuk (May 23, 2009)

Okay now all i need to do is should by UGJ be all 1" or will flow be bad? My return is 1" so i can reduce to to 3/4 or 1/2 when the water enters the tank. Please need some feedback on this thanks guys! 8)


----------



## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

If you think you can keep it covered, I think the least restriction will be to run it 1 inch to the end, and pinch the jets REALLY flat so there is some restriction right at the end.

I was worried about hiding the pipes, so I used 3/4 under the sand. One inch pipe is going to be tough to keep covered. My setup is a 2400 GPH pump feeding a 5 foot head height, 1.5 inch return line, reducing to 3/4 just for the jet piping. It blows pretty good.

100g tank, 60G sump, for comparison purposes.


----------



## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

Could i get pictures of your system? i want to install these. and it would be great to see something to work of.


----------



## Vadimshevchuk (May 23, 2009)

I think im gonna run it so it reduces 3/4" for the jets. Pictures would be wonderful CITADELGRAD87


----------



## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

I can snap some pictures and post them tonight, about 7 pm Pacific time at the earliest.


----------



## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k63 ... pgPictures of my setup as it stands presently:

Here's a shot showing the temporary hard line to establish performance with the 1 1/2 PVC line (I am waiting on some 1.5 barb fittings to replace most of this with soft tubinmg above teh sump and before teh tank edge)









Here's a shot at the reduction fittings, it goes from 1 1/2 all the way down to 3/4 using a single fitting I bought at Loewes. Although the selection is smaller than my local Home Depot, they seem to have more strange stuff like this reducer.










Finally, a couple shots of the jets. Configuration is not final at this point. My fist vesion used the overflow box to hide some of the PVC, so iniitally, it started on the opposite side of the back of the tank, so right now I have a jet pointed right at the down tube which is too close. I also need to offset it away from the back slightly to accomodate the background. Here is what we have right now:



















Tough to get pictures through the tank taht don't compress the image, it's 18 inches front to packm, to the jets are about 12 inches apart from the back to the front. I extenede two to blow across the middle area to try to pref=vent dead spots.

For some flexibility, I have not glued any joints, and will not glue any inside the tank. I was already able to flip one jet 180 degrees to see what that did for flow. I have the jets flowing in a generally counterclockwise direction right now, and each jet is plenty powerful. I plan to add one more jet just to the left of the overflow box, as well as valve down the whole setup using a split in the return line that just feeds back into the sump. I will use the split line as a water polisher and to perform water changes. Normal opration, 80=% of water goes back into the tank. For water changes, vlave that off, suck the sump out using that second return line, refill and treat/heat water, then turn back on the main sump line.

The final version in my head has the down tube converting to soft vinyl at the top of the outside run.

Open to comments, advice as always.


----------



## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

Thanks for the pictures. looks really good.

I was planning on using two pumps. one for each side of the tank. 
one would power the jets on the left side, and the other for the right. I was planning on having each "side" aim towards their designated back corner.

In this, have you made it so it creates a spiral effect?
If so, where have you put the intake(s)?

Also, the link for your sump pictures was unavailable.


----------



## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Nice looking set up! Do you have any idea as to what size of pump will power how many jets? I'm thinking of putting some of these in my 7' 52G tank just to help with the current (will be running one canister on there, just need more circulation) and am wondering what size pump you'd recommend for that and how many jets?


----------



## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

thanks guys. Im not sure why the sump pictures got scrambled and now i cant edit the post. If you look at my in wall build thread they show up there.

My pattern is counterclockwise so that the current hits the widest part of the built in overflow box. up and out is the intended idea. i need to move one jet that is blowing right at the downtube and i want to add another to blow directly at the side of the intake grate. i think its pretty good coverage.

King Crab, I am running a mag 24 at four feet of head height and eight jets with enough punch for nine. I also plan to slightly dial it down with a diverter back into the sump for additional water polishing. The specs say Im pushing way over fifteen hundred gph with an inch and a half return, but my inch and a half overflow is having no trouble keeping up, so doubt I am really pushing that much. I think a mag twelve or eighteen would move as much water if the pump was inside the main tank. The rule of thumb is one fifty to two hundred gph per jet according to what i have read. i set up my fifty years ago with three jets off a mag nine and i am happy with the flow but i wish i had planned better and ran another two or so jets in the dead spots. you really need to play with them to get a useful pattern.


----------



## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

King Crab, I was tired and typing on a Kindle last night, I re read this thread, I guess you mean that cool long 12x12 tank? I think a jet setup would help move water and debris, but I am trying to visualize if you could get a circular flow. To maximize the spread of the jets front to back, you could run a single line down the center of the tank, with branch jets alternating front and back right up against the glass. Pick a direction and have the front jets all pointing one way and the back ones pointing the opposite.

I tried to get a jet every 12 inches or so, so figure 10-14 for your tank, a mag 12 or 18 would mathematically work, but with the 12 x cinfiguration, you need to be careful you don't get a toilet bowl effect.


----------



## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

CITADELGRAD87 said:


> I tried to get a jet every 12 inches or so, so figure 10-14 for your tank, a mag 12 or 18 would mathematically work, but with the 12 x cinfiguration, you need to be careful you don't get a toilet bowl effect.


Yes that's what my main worry is with this tank! It's an awesome looking tank the only problem will be circulation keeping up with the filtration, I don't want to splash the fish around too much. I'm getting a 500GPH canister for mechanical and will be putting in a 1,320GPH circulation pump (or at least that's the current plan), but I though UGJs would be worth looking into! My other idea is something like this, with a 422GPH powerhead on each one:


----------

