# Input on my water quality?



## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

I've had my 125g tank going for about 3 weeks now and have been doing pretty regular water checks, but I wanted to run my specs by you all to see if I'm doing OK with my Tanganyika tank. I think some of the levels are elevated since the biological part of my filter hasn't fully cycled yet? My fish are doing wonderfully and are very perky, so I assume I'm not too far off. Although, if things are going the wrong way I sure would like to head it off as early as possible.

Here's the specs ...
kH - 10
gH - 8 
dH - 14.6 (with my meter)
pH - 8.0 (both my test and meter matched, which is good eh!)
Ammonia - 2.0 ppm (I'm a little worried about this one)
Nitrite - 5.0 ppm (I'm most worried about this one)
Nitrate - 0 ppm

Any input, good or bad would be greatly appreciated !!!  :fish:


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

What you are doing is now frowned on by some as totally unworkable. On the other hand it is the way things were done for a thousand years so it must not be too bad. I also tell people that I've never successfully completed a fishless cycle. There are ways to manage it so that the fish suffer the least harm. One way is frequent water changing. I would do one now to get the ammonia and nitrite down. Twice a day might be good. At the same time cutting way back opn feeding to reduce the amount of waste will help, too. Fish will act hungry most any time they feel well enough. Don't let thewm fool you into thinking they are starving! They can go a week during shipping without starving. Just keep the ammonia and nitrite down as much as practical and go with it. Don't clean filters at all for some time as they are somewhat "fragile" when new. Some of that stuff you clean off will be beneficial bacteria you want to build up. Good luck and keep testing as that is the way to see where things are going.


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

YouÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re right, the ammonia and nitrite readings arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t good. Until the tank is fully cycled, do however many water changes it takes to keep the nitrite and ammonia under 1ppm. In between the water changes, use Prime or some other water conditioner to detoxify any remaining ammonia.

The good news is that youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re getting nitrite readings. So, the ammonia oxidizing bacteria has started to colonize the tank. It might take a few more weeks, but you are on your way to having a cycled tank.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

You need to do some research on 'cycling tanks', and ammonia and nitrite toxicity. The levels you're seeing could could long term damage to your fish, at best, and kill them at worst. You'll find info in the water chemstry section of the forum library. You should be very worried about both the ammonia and nitrite settings and following the advice given in previous posts.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks for the input everyone!!! I know I was risking it after doing a ton of research on cycling tanks before you put fish in, but my LFS said I'd be ok ... I guess well see whether I should believe my LFS. I sure hope I don't hurt my precious fish.

I'll increase my water changes immediately!!! I've been doing 10% twice a week, but I'll try every day for a while until the rates come down, unless anyone thinks I should do more.

BTW, I've been using the ... http://www.aquariumguys.com/aqua-water-change-50ft.html ... but I have to hook it up to the sink (which mean chlorine ... BAD) so my LFS said keep it to 10% ... any ideas on how to get the chlorine out using the water changer? (without doing a whole-house filter?)

Thanks again and sorry for my ignorance !!!


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

May be some confusion with the LFS. For getting the chlorine or chloramine out, use a product like Prime (my choice) or several other water conditioners that are made for that. There is some question about when to add it but it seems most agree that just adding it as the water is added or right after is good enough. If you add it to the tank when filling, add enough for the tank volume rather than the amount being added. It has to do with the conditioner reaching all the chemical to make it harmless. That is not a part of the cycle but just part of any new water added. For me upping the water change to even as much as 50% to get it down quicker would be good. While too much water may change PH, temperature or other things that "could" be bad for the fish, we know for sure that the ammonia IS bad. So what you are doing is something that might bother them some rather than what you have which will for sure be bad for them and might kill them. Kind of the lesser of two evils.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

PfunMo said:


> May be some confusion with the LFS. For getting the chlorine or chloramine out, use a product like Prime (my choice) or several other water conditioners that are made for that. There is some question about when to add it but it seems most agree that just adding it as the water is added or right after is good enough. If you add it to the tank when filling, add enough for the tank volume rather than the amount being added. It has to do with the conditioner reaching all the chemical to make it harmless. That is not a part of the cycle but just part of any new water added. For me upping the water change to even as much as 50% to get it down quicker would be good. While too much water may change PH, temperature or other things that "could" be bad for the fish, we know for sure that the ammonia IS bad. So what you are doing is something that might bother them some rather than what you have which will for sure be bad for them and might kill them. Kind of the lesser of two evils.


Thanks for the guidance, especially on the Prime. I assumed you had to add it before you put the water in, and frankly I didn't have a tub big enough for that. I'll also cut down the feeding quite a bit, since I know I was overfeeding them and increase the water changes to up to 50% with the Prime or another water conditioner at the LFS. I'll also wait a few weeks until I do my next filter cleaning to make sure the good bacteria is built up better.

You guys are the best !!! Thanks again.


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

olliesshop said:


> Thanks for the guidance, especially on the Prime. I assumed you had to add it before you put the water in, and frankly I didn't have a tub big enough for that. I'll also cut down the feeding quite a bit, since I know I was overfeeding them and increase the water changes to up to 50% with the Prime or another water conditioner at the LFS. I'll also wait a few weeks until I do my next filter cleaning to make sure the good bacteria is built up better.
> 
> You guys are the best !!! Thanks again.


Sounds like you've got a good plan in place. Just test the tank water before and after the water changes and you'll get a good feel for how much will be necessary to keep the ammonia and nitrite in check.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> but my LFS said I'd be ok


It's never a good idea to add fish to an uncycled tank, as it's always an incredible risk and can damage the fish, if not kill them outright. In these situations, if the fish survive, then the idea gets passed on that it's ok to do this and doesn't harm the fish and all of the rest of us go to unecessary lengths to get tanks started. Ammonia and nitrite can damage fish. They may not die, but it can leave them in less than ideal condition and shorten their lifespans. Just because they survive this doesn't mean 'everything turned out ok'. Keep the feeding down, the water changes going strong, and keep detoxing that water. All you can do in this situation.



> BTW, I've been using the ... http://www.aquariumguys.com/aqua-water-change-50ft.html ... but I have to hook it up to the sink (which mean chlorine ... BAD) so my LFS said keep it to 10% ... any ideas on how to get the chlorine out using the water changer? (without doing a whole-house filter?)


Your LFS has evidently never heard of dechlorinator. :roll:


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Point well taken !!!

Thanks again for the advice. It looks like I really shouldn't believe much my LFS says.  I'll make sure this is my #1 source for expert advice.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

That's where I thought there much have been some kind of confusion. Surely there are not very many fish folks who don't know about dechlor???? I thought maybe it was one of those times when what one says is not what the other heard. Real communication is just a whole lot harder some times.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Well, I just tested the Ammonia before and after a 10% water change this morning (I kept it at 10% for now until I get some water conditioner today) and the levels were down. I assume it's because I didn't feed them very much yesterday? Or maybe the filter's starting to kick in?

My Ammonia level before the change was down to 0.5 ppm and after the water change it went down to 0.25 ppm ... definitely in the right direction. I'll do a bigger water change later today after I get the water conditioner.

Thanks again for all the wonderful, knowledgeable advice !!!


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

olliesshop said:


> Thanks for the guidance, especially on the Prime. I assumed you had to add it before you put the water in, and frankly I didn't have a tub big enough for that.


If you can't condition the water before adding it, the recommended solution is to condition the water as you're adding it by putting in the dose as your hose from the tap is pouring water into the tank. The only difference is that with this method you need to add enough conditioner for water in the WHOLE tank not just the water you added. For example, if you added 50 gallons of water to a 100 gallon tank (I'm just using these numbers for simplicity), you would add enough conditioner for 100 gallons (2 capfuls of Prime instead of 1).

A question to others: in this circumstance would it have been a good idea to lower the temperature slightly to reduce ammonia toxicity (I'm thinking of the link http://www.dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html prov356 referenced in another thread)? Would it also be a good idea to add aquarium salt to prevent nitrite poisoning?


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

zimmy said:


> olliesshop said:
> 
> 
> > A question to others: in this circumstance would it have been a good idea to lower the temperature slightly to reduce ammonia toxicity (I'm thinking of the link http://www.dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html prov356 referenced in another thread)? Would it also be a good idea to add aquarium salt to prevent nitrite poisoning?


Both are plausible ideas. But you can get it under control and keep it under control with just water changes. And for me, the straightest path to the solution is the best one to take.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I go for the simple route as well. When you start changing temperatures the changes are pretty hard to predict with many heaters and what we don't want to do is have fish that are stressed a bit by ammonia and then add to the stress with a sudden drop in temperature. When I've torn down heaters after they failed I've been amazed at some of the stuff I find. The machining on the screw end is really course, sometimes. Since the dial reading on most heaters is pretty much useless, once I get it where it works I leave be. The first priority should be get rid of the toxins. Water changes are the simple direct way.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> A question to others: in this circumstance would it have been a good idea to lower the temperature slightly to reduce ammonia toxicity (I'm thinking of the link http://www.dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html prov356 referenced in another thread)? Would it also be a good idea to add aquarium salt to prevent nitrite poisoning?


There's usually enough salt in the tank to detox nitrite as much as it's going to. I never advocate the addition of salt. The conditioners like Prime or Ammolock are the best options for dealing with the toxins.

I wouldn't drastically drop the temp because fiddling with heaters may do more harm than good, but I'd make sure it wasn't on the high end of the good range. Meaning, if it's 80 or or, drop it to 77-78. Personally, I'd leave it there then as cooler water holds more oxygen.



> Well, I just tested the Ammonia before and after a 10% water change this morning (I kept it at 10% for now until I get some water conditioner today)


If you've got chloramine in your tap water, then even 10% charges aren't good. The chloramine is stable, more so than chloramine, that's why it's used in tap water. The chloramine can even kill off the bacteria that you're trying to build.

Your ammonia levels are down enough that I'd not do another water change until you got the conditioner, as you said, Even then, go for 25% changes once or more per day rather than a massive change. I've found that massive water changes can be disruptive to the bacteria you're trying to build. Be sure to keep testing to see make sure what you're doing is having the intended affect.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Update ... I bought some Prime today and did a 20% water change this afternoon and the Ammonia is 0-0.25 ppm. I'll continue to do regular water changes, with the Prime, and hopefully things will work out all right.

Thanks again !!!


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

I'm perplexed, since I'm getting ammonia levels of about 0.5ppm, even after 2 months of cycling. I'm only feeding the fish 1 small pinch per day, plus some daphnia as a treat (BTW I have 8 small Neolamprologus Brichardi and two 4" long Plecos) . Also, on Sunday, put in ammonia remover "filter media" (from Fluval), new charcoal, and cleaned the filter at the same time. I'm wondering if I should stop feeding them for a few days to see if that brings my Ammonia levels down or whether the test kit is giving me false readings (although, I doubt it). Or maybe cleaning the filter on Sunday, with Clorine-free water, might have affected the levels.

Here's my current water specs:
kH - 7
gH - 7
dH - 14.6 
pH - 7.9 
Ammonia - 0.5
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
O2 - 12
CO2 - 2.64

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

BTW, I also do 20% water changes twice a week, which at least should help a little.


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## Cyclesafety (Feb 8, 2010)

Hi,

Coming in a little late, but here goes:

1) You need transient ammonia / ammonium to feed the nitrosomonas to get nitrites which feed the nitrobacter to get the benign-at low-level nitrates which are consumed by plants or diluted by water changes. Why did you put an ammonia absorber? It sounds like your tank hasn't yet cycled. If you have an emergency ammonia situation you should continue the WC's and the liberal use of Prime. Prime binds up the ammonia, but it is still available to the nitrosomas.

2) Also, why did you put charcoal in your filter? It has value only to remove medications, since due to clogging it has a useful life in an aquarium of only a few days.

3) Stop cleaning your filter. The biological filtration especially should be left alone until your tank has fully cycled as defined as zero ammonia and zero nitrite. Even when done properly, cycling a tank can take more than 6 weeks. Sorry to say, it seems that some of the actions you've taken have inhibited the process.

4) It sounds like you have a veritable chemical laboratory at your house. That's good. Me too. OTOH, please realize that your $10 aquarium hobby test kits - especially GH and NO3 - often give inaccurate and sometimes crazy-wrong, results. They need to be tested versus a standardized solution http://www.rexgrigg.com/diy-reactor.htm#kit (bottom of page) for an example. Otherwise, test kits should be used to indicate direction, like positive or negative. If your ammonia kit or nitrate kit show "positive" take action (BTW, these two kits, TG, tend to be more reliable).

You'll be relieved to learn that once your tank is up and running, you'll be able to back off on the WC's.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

THANK YOU for your advice !!!


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

1) You need transient ammonia / ammonium to feed the nitrosomonas to get nitrites which feed the nitrobacter to get the benign-at low-level nitrates which are consumed by plants or diluted by water changes. Why did you put an ammonia absorber? It sounds like your tank hasn't yet cycled. If you have an emergency ammonia situation you should continue the WC's and the liberal use of Prime. Prime binds up the ammonia, but it is still available to the nitrosomas.

=> BTW, I have live plants which it sounds like might keep my NO3 low. And yes, maybe my tank hasn't fully cycled yet ... I really don't know. I'll continue the WC's with Prime.

2) Also, why did you put charcoal in your filter? It has value only to remove medications, since due to clogging it has a useful life in an aquarium of only a few days.

=> It sounds like I should take the charcoal out soon?

3) Stop cleaning your filter. The biological filtration especially should be left alone until your tank has fully cycled as defined as zero ammonia and zero nitrite. Even when done properly, cycling a tank can take more than 6 weeks. Sorry to say, it seems that some of the actions you've taken have inhibited the process.

=> I'm planning on cleaning my filter every 2 months (with dechlorinated water). Does that sound about right?

Thanks again for all the help !!!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Did you check to see if there's chloramine in your tap water? If so, there's a very simple answer to this.



> Also, on Sunday, put in ammonia remover "filter media" (from Fluval), new charcoal, and cleaned the filter at the same time.


Too much tinkering with the filter. Leave it alone for a while. Once you get past this, remove the ammonia remover and charcoal. No need for either.

It's easy enough to check your ammonia kit with a bottle of spring water or similar.

Regarding filter cleaning schedule, depends on the filter(s), fish load, feeding etc. There's no one-size-fits-all.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

prov356 said:


> Did you check to see if there's chloramine in your tap water? If so, there's a very simple answer to this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


=> No, I don't know if there's any chloramine in the water. Can you recommend a test kit I could buy for this? In the meantime, I look to see if I can find one.

Also, I'll take out the ammonia remover and charcoal at the next filter change, right?

Good idea on checking the ammonia kit with the spring water ... I'll do that.

Thanks again for all the help and advice !!! :fish:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Can you recommend a test kit I could buy for this?


It would be in your water quality report. You can alwsys find these online. It appears you don't have chloramine, just chlorine, so can't blame that for the ammonia reading. I'd double check the test kit, and then leave the filter alone for 30 days or so. Then, yes, remove the items mentioned from the filter.

What type and how many filters do you have? If you only have one filter and have been adding, removing, and cleaning things, then that could account for the ammonia reading.  More info would be helpful on filters and maintenance schedule up to this point.


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## Cyclesafety (Feb 8, 2010)

If you must have a test kit for chlorine / chloramine:

http://www.customaquatic.com/estore/con ... -RLR440006

I use these strips to test whether chloramine has broken through the carbon cartridges on my RO units.

If you have enough plants, then there would have been no point to cycling your tank. Test your ammonia kit, as suggested above.

After you're cycled and have been changing your water regularly for a few months, you might want to play the scientist again and test all of the variables. But if you get an unexpected number, first question the kit. If its accuracy can then be confirmed using a standard solution, distilled, or even tap water using your water company's analysis, then think through actions to address the possible problem. The kits commonly available to the hobbist are only better than nothing. Even the LaMotte kits should be dealt with in the same way.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

prov356 said:


> > Can you recommend a test kit I could buy for this?
> 
> 
> It would be in your water quality report. You can always find these online. It appears you don't have chloramine, just chlorine, so can't blame that for the ammonia reading. I'd double check the test kit, and then leave the filter alone for 30 days or so. Then, yes, remove the items mentioned from the filter.
> ...


I'll double-check the Ammonia test kit tonight to make sure and my local water quality. Also, I have a Rena Filstar XP3 Canister filter for my 125 gallon tank.

Thanks again !!!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Rena seriously over rates their canisters. It's rated at 350gph *MAX*. That means empty, no media, and probably little or no head height. Kind of deceiving, isn't it?  When I had an XP4 rated at 450, I measured the actual and it was about 240gph, no more. Your XP3 may not even be getting 200gph. So you could be turning your tank over 1-2 times per hour. It may not be enough to keep the ammonia at 0. That could be your problem. They rate it for up to 175 gallon tank. That's ridiculous. I'd add a powerful HOB and get some turnover in that tank. Biofiltration doesn't need a lot of turnover, true, but I think 1-2 times per hour just may not be enough. Do you have any powerheads, etc or any other current going?


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

I just double-checked the test kit and it read about 0.125ppm for Ammonia (this was using our de-chlorinated/filtered tap water) that looks like it might be a little of the problem. I also ordered a Chlorine test kit. Looks like I need to wait some more for the tank to cycle and keep close tabs on the Ammonia.

Thanks again for all the help !!! :fish:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I just double-checked the test kit and it read about 0.125ppm for Ammonia


You should not have ammonia in your tap. I'd check that test kit.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

prov356 said:


> Rena seriously over rates their canisters. It's rated at 350gph *MAX*. That means empty, no media, and probably little or no head height. Kind of deceiving, isn't it?  When I had an XP4 rated at 450, I measured the actual and it was about 240gph, no more. Your XP3 may not even be getting 200gph. So you could be turning your tank over 1-2 times per hour. It may not be enough to keep the ammonia at 0. That could be your problem. They rate it for up to 175 gallon tank. That's ridiculous. I'd add a powerful HOB and get some turnover in that tank. Biofiltration doesn't need a lot of turnover, true, but I think 1-2 times per hour just may not be enough. Do you have any powerheads, etc or any other current going?


I don't have any powerhead, but I do have an air bubble strip/stone that creates a lot of circulation on the other end of the tank from the Rena's output tube. Do you think a Hang on Back filter would be better than buying a different/bigger Canister filter?

Thanks !!!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I just suggested a HOB because it's cheaper and the bigger ones tend to have high gph capability. If you can swing an FX5 or similar high end canister, then I'd probably go for that instead. Don't just bump up to an XP4, as it won't help much. If you add the bigger canister, run both simultaneously for a couple of months. And if/when you take the XP3 out of comission, move it's biomedia to the new canister. I'd probably leave it in place and use it for chemical and additional biofiltration. Lots of things you can do.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

I'll think I'd rather go with an FX5 or other high-end canister and follow your instructions on changing over. I'll just have to find the money now ... heehee !!!

Thanks again !!!


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

This seems like a good price for the FX5 at Amazon for $235 ... http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-Fluval-Cani ... B000I1O2PK ... do you agree? My LFS said they charge $389 ... considerably more, obviously.

Thanks !!! :fish:


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

What would be the equivalent Eheim cannister filter? I looked at there site and it looks like they have a ton of different kinds.

Thanks again


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I've only used the smaller Eheims, so I'll let someone else respond and recommend something.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

It looks like I might have to get their biggest one the "EHEIM professionel 3" ... http://www.eheim.com/base/eheim/inhalte ... 27575_ehen ... which is rated for 1700 l per hour (449 gallons per hour). It looks like it runs about the same price of about $240. I sure like the looks of it better than the Fluval, which obviously is not the most important thing. I'll do a lot more research ... such Fun !!!

Thanks !!!


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

I'm thinking my Ammonia might have spiked, since I haven't been able to spot a couple of my 8 Brichardi. I'm wondering if the dominant 5 fish have killed 1 or 2 of the fish. If this is indeed the case, and the fish have been killed (which I cannot find/see anymore), wouldn't that increase Ammonia?

Thanks.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> wouldn't that increase Ammonia?


Yes, but in a cycled tank, you still shouldn't get a spike. I never have from a dead fish. Of course, it depends on the fish size and filtration, etc. Now, if your filtration was on the edge as far as being adequate, then something like that could push it over. You could be right.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

olliesshop said:


> I'm thinking my Ammonia might have spiked, since I haven't been able to spot a couple of my 8 Brichardi. I'm wondering if the dominant 5 fish have killed 1 or 2 of the fish. If this is indeed the case, and the fish have been killed (which I cannot find/see anymore), wouldn't that increase Ammonia?
> 
> Thanks.


Well ... so much for that theory ... after 3 days of not being able to count all 8 I was able to find them all this morning. So we're back to the same old problem.

Thanks again for all the help/advice !!!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> So we're back to the same old problem.


Yes, but I don't think there's a mystery really. I think once you add that filter, you'll be on your way to resolving it. I'd also suggest adding some sort of internal power head or hydor koralia to get more current going. You should also consider moving that return flow spray bar nearer to the surface. I like intakes low, returns high.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

prov356 said:


> > So we're back to the same old problem.
> 
> 
> Yes, but I don't think there's a mystery really. I think once you add that filter, you'll be on your way to resolving it. I'd also suggest adding some sort of internal power head or hydor koralia to get more current going. You should also consider moving that return flow spray bar nearer to the surface. I like intakes low, returns high.


Yes ... it looks like a new filter is clearly in my future. I'll also look into a power head. In terms of moving the head up, though, it looks like it's as high as it can go (looking at the fittings). Although, I could point the nozzles more upward than straight out if you think that would help?

Thanks  :fish:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I was looking at the pic in the link in your sig. Looks to be several inches down. There's got to be a way to remove fittings or something to get it higher.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Well I took your challenge and moved the output up. I took about 1 1/2 hours, though, since the filter is so old (I got it with the tank when I bought it ... another reason to get a new filter) that the pieces were fused together. I literally had to break the extension piece and chisel off/out the pieces from the male and female portions of the remaining pieces. Then I made a spacer (2nd pic) to get it up even higher, so it sits about 1" below the surface now. Whew !!! Hopefully it will help some.

Here's pics of how it looks now ...


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Well I bought a Powerhead for the Aquarium. It's a Koralia 1400gph (after looking at a bunch of them on the net), this one seemed to meet my needs the best) and really moves the water !!! Hopefully, based on earlier advice, it will help some. It sure makes the tank more dynamic.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Well it looks like I've hopefully finally solved my Ammonia problem. After looking at all the filters w/media I realized that about 2/3'd or more of the media was biological/bacterial media to obviously maximize the benefits of the good bacteria. I realized I was only running about 1/6 biological/bacterial media, which was way too low !!! So I removed the charcoal and the Ammonia reducer and replaced them with Seachem Matrix biological/bacterial media ... http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Matrix.html and now have about 2/3rds biological/bacterial, an increase of 4 times the media. I really has seemed to work, since my Ammonia levels are now at 0ppm. Hopefully they'll stay that way. I feel so stupid for not thinking about this before, but sometimes that's the way it works.

Thanks again for all the help and advice !!!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

The charcoal and ammonia reducer would have acted as biomedia. They count when you're counting total biomedia. The Seachem stuff wouldn't provide anything new/better unless you added more, so more surface area. And the Seachem media probably wouldn't have been populated so quickly to be the reason for the reduction in your ammonia level. I'd say it's more a matter of the bacteria finally finding other areas of the system to populate. The whole system including decor acts as potential surface area for bacteria, as long as there's a good flow of water. The additions and changes to your filtration/water pumps may have been a big factor in getting your ammonia down. Don't get me wrong, increasing your biomedia was a good thing, but my point is that anything with a lot of surface area, like what the charcoal and ammonia reducer had, would work just as well. It's not always a simple answer.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks for the input ... it sure sounds like it's not simple. Either way, I hope it stays near 0ppm.

All the best !!! :fish:


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Well ... I decided to buy another testing device (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html) as a backup and comparison to the "Drop/liquid" test for Ammonia levels. What a difference !!! The Seachem says 0ppm and the "API Master Test Kit" says 0.5ppm !!! ... I bought the API kit from my LFS. I would tend to trust the API type of Drop test, but since my fish seem very healthy I'm thinking maybe the SeaChem device might be right and I have 0ppm. Maybe the API kit is old (I can't find a date on it anywhere).

*Is there an Ammonia test kit folks would recommend as a 3rd backup? Or should I just believe the Seachem device (Seachem seems like a good company)?*

Any advice from you experienced "water testers" would be appreciated.

Thank you !!!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

The lot number has the date, like Lot # 28A0102, would be Jan 2002. See this article for more information. Check the expriration on the kit you have and replace it, if needed. I've never found them to be inaccurate. I've heard the Seachem stick-ons are really bad. FWIW


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## jetnet22 (Jan 28, 2011)

Water changes are the simple direct way.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

jetnet22 said:


> Water changes are the simple direct way.


I agree, that's why I do 20% water changes twice a week, which helps keep the bad chemicals in control. My abundance of live plants also seem to be helping keep my Nitrates at 0ppm ... at least that's what I assume is doing it. Not really sure.

Some good news, though, I bought a test kit from Seachem ... http://www.amazon.com/Seachem-Multitest-Ammonia-Test-Kit/dp/B001EUI4VM and it gave a reading of 0ppm !!! So my other API test kit is likely bad or out of date (no way to tell, since there's no lot number on it), since 2 out of 3 test kits are giving me 0ppm.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Follow-up ... the date of the test kit I assume is 2009, since that's when the instructions were printed, so it's 1-2 years old. I'm not sure about API products, but they do seem to be the leader is testing kits, so I'm not sure what's going on.

:fish:


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Well, I've had my tank for almost a year and have had 4 broods of fry and I have about 50 fish in the tank now, including 15 1/2" long fry, about 20 1 1/2" long, 10 about 2" and 5 adults ... everything seems to be going rather well. I do 50% water changes with Prime water conditioner and put SeaChem Lake Tanganyika salt powder in ever week to try to keep the pH high (above 7) and the water hard.

The hardest part I've been finding is trapping the fish without killing them (I think from Panic in my Trap). The one's I've been successful with, I've taken out of the trap within 30-60min. Longer than that and I think they hyperventilate and die ... which is quite sad  . So my plan going forward, after I think perfecting the trap ... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=234325&highlight= ... is to keep an eye on the trap every 15-30 minutes, while it's in the tank and only try to catch fish on days I'm able to do that.

On the water parameter side here's my current water specs, which seem to have been holding steady for months now:

kH - 9-10
gH - 7-8
dH - 17-18
pH - Usually in the high 7's
Ammonia - 0-1 depending the test kit I use (I used Seachem, Seachem Alert and Salifert). As was mentioned in previous post ... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=229889&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=30, my API test kit would give a falsely high reading, due to the Prime I add so I don't use it anymore.
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 3-7
O2 - 10-12
CO2 - 4-11 - seems to vary widely, based on the exponential function of pH (CO2=3*kH*10^(7-pH)

On the feeding side, I use New Life Spectrum OPTIMUM Fresh H20 Flakes and supplement that with Daphnia Moina as a live food treat (usually every day) ... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=224327&highlight=

I hope this helps and all the best to everyone !!! :fish:


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

I noticed a few days ago that my fish were breathing heavy and tried to figure out why. At first, I thought is was just the pH, since it was lower than normal (7.5 vs. 7.8-8.0). Then I read about adding aeration, so I added an air-stone strip and that helped a lot. But then I noticed the filter wasn't pumping any water (and that, I believe, adds Oxygen to the water through the tiny bubbles it pours out of the spout.

So in total, I ended up bringing the Oxygen from 8ppm to 12ppm by doing the following:
Ã¢â‚¬Â¢ Added an air-stone strip
Ã¢â‚¬Â¢ Put in Lake Tanganyika buffer, since I forgot to add it the last water change
Ã¢â‚¬Â¢ Found out, this morning, the filter was clogged and not working at all (the fine mesh at the top was packed full or crud) so I put in some new mesh and now it works great again !!!
Ã¢â‚¬Â¢ These brought the O2 from 8 to 12ppm and pH from 7.5 to 8.0

Hope this helps some one ... all the best !!!


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## ramonj6047 (Aug 4, 2011)

I recently upgraded to a 90 gallon from a 55. i never tested my water  i have mostly african then 2 clown loaches, 1 texas cichlid and 1 black ghost knife. oh and water has salt and the temp floats around 85-86 degrees. I been adding fish so i want to keep ich away.

Im sure this isn't recommended lol, am i crazy or does anyone do something similar.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

ramonj6047 said:


> I recently upgraded to a 90 gallon from a 55. i never tested my water  i have mostly african then 2 clown loaches, 1 texas cichlid and 1 black ghost knife. oh and water has salt and the temp floats around 85-86 degrees. I been adding fish so i want to keep ich away.
> 
> Im sure this isn't recommended lol, am i crazy or does anyone do something similar.


"have never tested my water" is NOT a good idea.


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## ramonj6047 (Aug 4, 2011)

i will test the water soon, i may be ordering fish online so i would need to make sure my parameters are straight :thumb:


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