# Blue Ram vs. Bolivian Ram



## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Hi there,

About 6 weeks ago I purchased a trio of young Blue Rams (1m :2f).

What I've found is that these guys are way more skittish and far less 'personable' than my Bolivian rams ever were...

Is this typical of the species?

I was planning an Orinoco bio-tope tank for the future and these Rams were going to be a part of that... However, if they are going to end up being shy & reclusive all the time I may scrap the idea of a bio-tope and get me some more Bolivians!

The tank is 36"L x 12"W x 12"T.
Temp is 80 degrees F
Tank mates are 5 or 6 Rummy Nose Tetras, 1 SAE, & 4 small BN pleco's (1.5" TL)


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

While more colorful, I've always found they are skittish even after settling in for a long time. Especially wild caught ones. They act like a dwarf cichlid, where it seems bolivian rams don't. They seem to think they are an oscar instead of a dwarf in terms of their personality.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> it seems bolivian rams don't. They seem to think they are an oscar instead of a dwarf in terms of their personality


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Your absolutely right abouth that! That's why they are such an interesting specie. Bolivians are les colorful but they compensate in many way's. Did you know they are even more interesting in a small group? By the way,.....for a Orinico biotope some other species are also very interesting,....like A. hoignei , A gutatta and A hongsloi! Is this for the 38 gallon or an other tank? for larger tanks (50 gallon or more) Guianacara are also very nice fish! Not that colorful but they also compensate in behaviour and are very peaceful in a small group.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

*Dutch Dude* - Yeah, I've kept them before as a pair in a 20 gallon long, and really like them. But this time am waiting for a larger tank to do a group of them after following the epic known as the BRC thread. :thumb:

*illy-d* - Another cichlid from the orinico that is devastingly pretty, though sometimes hard to find, is _Laetacara fulvipinnis_, formally known L. sp. 'orangeflossan.' Have only seen them a few times offered though, ironically never locally here but once in Vancouver and once in Victoria, as well as online.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

^ I saw a pic of the latacara sp. Orangeflossan in a book and was intrigued - and noticed it was from the Orinoco - but I dismissed it as an unlikely find... :?

I am considering one of 2 things to increase the personality of this tank before switching to Bolivians... (on a side note the Orinoco bio-tope idea is on hold until I know if I can get a bigger tank).

Option 1;

Add another Blue Ram Male.. The females have started to become more lively and even have little standoffs out in the open... Lots of mock charges, no harm done and then they swim off together or in seperate directions... Maybe if I add another male it will bring up the compete level in this male and I will see more interaction...

Option 2;

Add a single Apisto male. No matter the species - just the nicest specimen I can find locally at a reasonable price... Thinking that by adding another cichlid the personality of the whole tank will increase by default!

I would love to hear your thoughts on my thoughts 

Bear in mind the tank is about 22 gallons - 12" deep x 12" wide x 36" long (same footprint as a 33g tank only shorter).

PS: I am going to up the temp from 79 degrees F to 82 degrees F for a couple of days to see if this boosts the moral of the Rams!

PPS: After watching this tank for the last hour I think I am going to swap out the 5 Rummynose tetras for some Cardinal Tetras (more colourful)... I'll also bump the number up to at least 9...


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *illy-d*,

Apistogramma macmasteri is found in the in the Rio Meta drainage in Colombia, along with Mikrogeophagus ramirezi.

I'm also moving my little Rio Orinoco biotope to a larger tank shortly. The biotope is based around the Rio Iniridae in Colombia

New tank will be 36"x18"x18", so 49 gallons.

Inhabitants will be;
Trio Apistogramma iniridae
Pair Dicrosus filamentosus - Checkerboard cichlid
12 Paracheirodon simulans - Green neon tetra 
8 Hemigrammus rhodostomus - Rummy-nose tetra
3 L104 Panaque maccus - Clown pleco 
5 Otocinclus vittatus


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

That sounds like a very nice tank - if I can upgrade I am hopoing to get an 18" width so I can make a diy background and not compromise too much space...

Right now I am doubting the whole bio-tope theme just based on the lack of personality these Rams display - I hope they come around as I think they are gorgeous!

Cardinal Tetras which are also found with Rams and A. macmasteri are a definite fish regardless - they are so colourful!

The two Apisto species I was hoping to be able to pick from are A. honglsoi (blue & yellow variety) and A. viejita c.m. II (the ones with the red gill spangles) I don't necessarily want/ned a breeding pair or trio (it will depend on tanksize), but given the current dimensions do you think a single Apisto male would work? Or would I be better to get another male Ram?


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

*illy-d* - what a unique shaped tank! Where did you find it? I hate tall tanks unless keeping angels or discus. I'd up the cardinals to 12 though ... they are smaller than rummy's ... I usually have 12 in a 20 long, and since your tank is an extra 6 inches longer.

*DeadFishFloating* - Despite the literal conversing from liters to us gallons, a 36"x18"x18" is known as a 50 gallon breeder ... which sounds much better than a 49 gallon. :thumb: Did your checkerboards cut themselves down to one pair? I know you lost the extra males. I ask becuase they are a harem species too from what I've read, though maybe apistomaster could chime in (and hopefully post more pics of his cuase they are sweet! :lol: )


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

12 it is!


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

So the temp is up to about 82 and I have added a couple more fish and the whole tank is becoming more active... Even the Rummy nose tetras are more active

The new additions are a Sterbai Cory and a male A. cacatoides triple red... I am getting 2 more Sterbais tomorrow as well as a dozen cardinals (the rummynoses are being traded in to make room).

So, if the Orinoco bio-tope tank is a long time in coming I think the eventual stocking of this tank will be as follows;

2 Blue Rams (1 pair, the 2nd female will be moved if aggression is an issue).
12 Cardinal Tetras
1 male A. cackatoo
3 - 6 Sterbai cories
1 - 2 bristlenose pleco's (as the current 4 juvies grow they will be removed).
1 SAE (I've had it awhile and as the largest fish in the tank I think it will be a good influence).

Again, if the Rams fall back into their unpersonable state they will be swapped for Bolivians!

I'll get some pics up when I find the box that my camera is packed away in!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Keep an eye on the bristlenose, might need oto's instead. I say this only becuase I have a pyscho bristlenose female that actively chased my nasty, mean compressiceps pike and now chases a mean convict cichlid the length of the tank and even up into the water column! I certainly won't use it with dwarves cichlids!!! :lol:

And yes pictures!!! I remember your 20 long won tank of the month!!


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

*dwarfpike*


> DeadFishFloating - Despite the literal conversing from liters to us gallons, a 36"x18"x18" is known as a 50 gallon breeder ... which sounds much better than a 49 gallon. Did your checkerboards cut themselves down to one pair? I know you lost the extra males. I ask becuase they are a harem species too from what I've read, though maybe apistomaster could chime in (and hopefully post more pics of his cuase they are sweet! )


My checkerboards cut themselves down to 1. :roll:

He was the obvious dominant male in the tank at the LFS, the only one with fin trailers. They settled in for a couple of days, then he started taking one out per day. I didn't have another tank to move the others to and was resigned to losing them. I had hopes the last one was a female, as she was smaller and plumper and seemed to be ignored, untill she was the last.

Now, he terrorises the rummynose. He's growing fast, developing a real long lyre tail, and coluring up well. Red and blue.

A not so LFS is able to order some more in for me, and I will be getting the pick of the lot.

I have the last week of May and the first week of June off, and this is when I'll be setting up my new 5 footer and three 3 footers. 
5 footer will be G. sp. araguaia "orange head" and my new L397's & dithers.
3 footer Rio Iniridae biotope as above.
3 footer Rio Paraguay based around a trio of A. borelii sp. paraguay & pair of L. dorsigerus.
3 footer Rio Tefe based around a trio of A. agassizii sp. rio tefe & pair of L. curviceps.

*illy-d* sorry for taking over your thread.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

^ No worries - your still talking about cichlids - dwarf cichlids at that! Sorry to hear about your dicrossus... I had a buddy that had 6 wild caught ones growing out in a 33g tank. He woke up one morning to find them all dead - at first he was stumped, tested his water all was good, then he thought maybe some chemical or something got in the water and killed them... After reading your experience I wonder if it wasn't aggression? I had 5 dwarf guorami's do the same thing... The last one standing died froms his wounds the same day he took out his last competitor.

Congrats on the new tanks!

& dwarfpike I will keep an eye on them (the BN's)... they are all currently 1.25" and not really a threat to anyone...


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

*illy-d* - yeah, it's the only one that I've had that's a pyscho. Probably becuase I forced her to live with my pikes. :lol: Deffinately pics!!!

*DeadFishFloating* - We do similar tanks! Except instead of apistos, I do dwarf pikes and laetacara. Similiar sized tanks though, live in apartments though, so am limited to 40-50 breeders. Wow, nasty checkboards!! Makes me wonder how people breed them in 10 gallon tanks!!


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