# How to fix "chip" in 155 Bow Front tank...



## Randifer (Nov 4, 2012)

155 bow front tank by randifer, on Flickr

Thinking of buying this 155 gallon tank. Seller says there is a quarter-sized "chip" at the top of the tank (hidden by the wooden cover). Says it does not leak and that chip can be fixed by a windshield repair company.
Seller is out of town but will e-mail me a picture of the chip when he gets back.

Can a chip in a tank like this actually be fixed?

And if I do get a tank this size for a mixed Hap/Peacock tank with sand substrate... what kind of filtration would I need for this? (keep in mind that right now I just have a 55 gallon with two HOB filters...so I know NOTHING about canister filters and such). Is there a single canister filter I could get away with... or are there multiple things I would need to do?

Thanks for the help.

Randy


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## timbo6684 (Aug 29, 2010)

I've had a chip in my windshield fixed before. They use some type of filler, maybe an epoxy, that dries clear and hard. I'm not sure what the chip would do to the integrity of the tank. If it's near a seam I personally wouldn't want to deal with it.


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## timbo6684 (Aug 29, 2010)

Oh and I'd definitely suggest multiple canister filters. I'd go with dual fx5 canisters.


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## ShortBus (Aug 17, 2005)

I would Pass on that aquarium, a quarter sized chip is very large
The risk of failure would be to great for me


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## Randifer (Nov 4, 2012)

Yep... it has me worried too.

I'm going to wait for the picture to be sure... but I think i'll keep looking.

I did not know they made bow front tanks that large.

R.


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## iridextr (Feb 8, 2013)

I would have to agree with the comment above. My friend had her 75 reef repaired like this. A piece of live rock down right in front of her when her massive hermit crab climbed on it lol anyway, put a tiny chip in the glass. But a quarter sized chip?.. that's big.. the chip she had fixed was maybe a quarter inch. I'm no expert on this, but for some reason I would think repairing a chip in a normal flat panel tank would be safer than a bowfront, just because the pressure is exerted differently on the bowfront.

The other possibility, is to ask your lfs if they can replace the panel all together. My lfs changes panels in flat panel tanks, but only if the tank is actually worth it, i.e. big tanks that are costly to replace. Maybe your lfs can get in touch with the manufacturer (they're probably a dealer for them anyways), and get a panel shipped to them. Otherwise, just pass on the tank and let someone else have it explode in their living room.


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## timbo6684 (Aug 29, 2010)

and they get bigger, there was a 300+ bowfront on the list here in phx for awhile...sellers couldn't fit their tank into their new home


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## austings (May 12, 2012)

How much are they asking for it? That stand and canopy looks custom.


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## Randifer (Nov 4, 2012)

austings said:


> How much are they asking for it? That stand and canopy looks custom.


$600 and i have to fix the chip. Said they paid $3,000 when they bought it. I believe they said they bought it 8 years ago and they stopped using it (got a 360 gallon) almost 3 years ago. Comes with fluval cansister filter and some other stuff... but they have not sent me the list of model numbers and such yet.

R.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Chips are not really much concern in the integrity of the tank. They will not grow and they do not cause leaks unless they are inside a seam and connect to the outside. It's more an aesthetic issue. It may or may not be able to be repaired with glass chip filler.

The stand and canopy are exquisite and a custom job. That alone is worth the $600 even if you throw the tank away and buy a new one.

Andy


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## ShortBus (Aug 17, 2005)

:thumb:


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## Randifer (Nov 4, 2012)

suppose to get pics of the chip tomorrow. Going to try to go take a look at the tank this weekend.

Still have a bad feeling about anything that holds that much water not being perfect... but going to try to check with a glass company and see what they say. Anyone have any ideas of an aquarium company I might be able to check with too?

thanks.
r.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Narwhal72 said:


> Chips are not really much concern in the integrity of the tank. They will not grow and they do not cause leaks unless they are inside a seam and connect to the outside. It's more an aesthetic issue. It may or may not be able to be repaired with glass chip filler.
> 
> The stand and canopy are exquisite and a custom job. That alone is worth the $600 even if you throw the tank away and buy a new one.
> 
> Andy


What about the pressure of the water on the glass where chipped? Wouldn't it depend on how much of the chipped out glass is left behind in thickness compared to the total pressure per square in of water in the tank pushing outwards on that particular spot? Would it also matter what side the chip is on? If the chip is on the inside would that be worse? What about the size of the chip? Just curious. Always wondered about this.


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## PreposterousFish (Jan 8, 2013)

The chip is at the top, covered by the hood, probably above the water line? I say get it.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Sounds like the chip is in a place where it isn't likely to be an issue. pressure at the top of the tank is the lowest so a chip on an edge is of no consequence, unless it has stared a crack.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

> Anyone have any ideas of an aquarium company I might be able to check with too?


You just did. I work in R&D for Central Aquatics (Aqueon, Oceanic, Coralife, Kent, Zilla).



> What about the pressure of the water on the glass where chipped?


 Point applied pressure is much stronger than the panel pressure. Think of it this way. If you were to stand on a piece of 3/16" glass that was the size of your foot your foot would not break the glass. But if you were to stand on a piece of 3/16" glass that was 4' x 4' your weight (assuming your an adult) would break the glass easily.

If the chip is on the inside you will get more algae growth in the chip which will be difficult to clean but no other problem otherwise.

Remember that a chip is different from a crack. A chip has a beginning and and an end and cannot spread any further through the glass. A crack will be in the glass and has an indeterminate end so it can continue to grow through the glass. Tanks with cracks should not be used.

Andy


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I should put in the disclaimer that I have not actually seen this tank and am working off the assumption that the "chip" is indeed a chip and not a crack.


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## ShortBus (Aug 17, 2005)

Lots of tanks get impact chips, wouldn't the area of the chip be the weakest point, or the point most likely to crack or fail based on the chip has weakened the integrity of the glass


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

> Lots of tanks get impact chips, wouldn't the area of the chip be the weakest point, or the point most likely to crack or fail based on the chip has weakened the integrity of the glass


Not at all. Glass can break for any of a variety of reasons but the two most common in aquariums are listed below.

A stress crack caused by pressure applied against the panel can occur at any point but will generally be closer to the middle of the tank where the glass bows the most. Stress cracks generally start on the edge and travel across the glass until they reach another edge. These can be very quick and catastrophic or start quickly and then proceed slowly across the glass. Generally these are seen as single line cracks. Chips will not increase the likelihood of a stress crack forming nor are they any more likely to be the point of origin.

An impact crack will occur at the point of impact wherever that is. Impact cracks often have several cracks that radiate out from the point of impact.

A chip will generally start at the edge of the glass but not go completely through the thickness of the glass and will travel out the face of the glass. Typically they look like a clam shell. Because these have a definitive end where the separation in the glass matrix can no longer continue there is not danger to the rest of the glass. In fact all glass is generally chipped on the edges when raw and the chips are removed in the edge finishing. If you ever remove a top frame from a tank you will see the uneven chipped surface on the top edge that doesn't normally have edge finishing because it is concealed by the frame.

A chip in the middle of a panel (like a windshield chip) is a different story. This is not really a chip but actually a crack. The crack can continue to spread into the glass from the rear face to the front face or from the point of impact out to an edge. These types of cracks are pretty rare in aquaria as aquariums are not made with laminated glass (a layer of plastic polymer is between two glass layers to prevent shattering) like windshields and an impact strong enough to cause a chip in a windshield would crack an aquarium in most cases.

Andy


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

Would agree with Andy. We have used several tanks with chips in the past with absolutely no issue.

I would ask them to fill the tank for you. If it has been empty for three years, the seals may have warped enough to cause a leak. Of course you can reseal the tank, but it's always nice to know what you are taking home.


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## ShortBus (Aug 17, 2005)

Great information, always on the look out for a good deal on a used tank


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## mhough260 (Mar 22, 2013)

ShortBus said:


> Great information, always on the look out for a good deal on a used tank


x2.

I would also have the seller fill it. When you go look at it, have them fill it and if your very interested, give them half the money to hold it for a few days and leave it full.

Sure they'll tell you if it leaks or not after that. :thumb:


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## Randifer (Nov 4, 2012)

Thanks for the info.  I'll post a picture of the chip as soon as i get it from the owner (hopefully tonight).

I feel a little better about this after some of the recent posts... especially from someone that works with this sort of thing. I have been actively looking, so i have a couple of backup options if I decide not to go with this one.

Randy


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## Randifer (Nov 4, 2012)

UPDATE: ok... turns out the wife of the guy selling the tank had some of the info wrong. I talked to the husband today and this is what i found out.
The chip is on the outside of the tank. It is on the back panel (pretty much right at the corner). It is actually loacated almost exactly 1/2 way down the tank. It is about "the width of a dime and the height of a silver dollar".
Here are the pictures they sent me... they are kind of hard to make out:


photo by randifer, on Flickr


photo2 by randifer, on Flickr


photo3 by randifer, on Flickr


photo4 by randifer, on Flickr

I appreciate all of the response to this post... it has been very helpful, so i am sorry to ask more questions... but...
1) does it make a difference that this is basically on the corner of the tank right where the two pieces of glass come together?
2) does it matter that this is in the middle of the tank instead of above the water line at the top?
3) do you think I could find someone to "patch" this sort of like you would a windshield?

Thanks again for the help!
Randy


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## jakekersley (Mar 25, 2013)

Having a chip would bother me a little to much. One more thing to stress about. In my opinion.

You could buy a small glass repair kit.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

This is a clam shell chip caused by an impact. When glass is cut it doesn't cut smoothly. There are ridges and valleys in the edge. The ridges are typically called "flare". When a section of flare is impacted it will chip out like this. The crack travels parallel to the plane of the glass in a wave until it reaches the surface of the panel and then terminates.

This type of chip cannot travel any further through the glass nor will it result in any structural weakness to the aquarium. Other than the aesthetics, it's prefectly fine to use.

The downside is that this type of chip cannot be repaired. It's much too large and on an edge so it can't be epoxy filled.

Andy


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## Randifer (Nov 4, 2012)

Narwhal72 said:


> This is a clam shell chip caused by an impact. When glass is cut it doesn't cut smoothly. There are ridges and valleys in the edge. The ridges are typically called "flare". When a section of flare is impacted it will chip out like this. The crack travels parallel to the plane of the glass in a wave until it reaches the surface of the panel and then terminates.
> 
> This type of chip cannot travel any further through the glass nor will it result in any structural weakness to the aquarium. Other than the aesthetics, it's prefectly fine to use.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info... I think I am going to get this tank. The owner has offered to fill it up in his garage and have it full when i get there. He has a pump that can empty it after I get there. It is 3 hours from me... so will be a couple of weeks before I can get it. I'll update you guys once i have it set-up.

Thanks to everyone for the responses.

Randy


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

It's great that he is going to fill the tank for you. I would have him set it up 2-3 days before you plan to make the trip to test for leaks.

Looking forward to the update! opcorn:


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## Randifer (Nov 4, 2012)

jcabage said:


> It's great that he is going to fill the tank for you. I would have him set it up 2-3 days before you plan to make the trip to test for leaks.
> 
> Looking forward to the update! opcorn:


Ok... we can officially mark this thread as "dead". The owners have refunded my deposit and decided not to sell me the tank. The reason kind of amused me. The owner is afraid he will set the tank up in his garage and that it will burst because of the chip and spill all over his garage. Funny... he was sure it would be "fine" for me to set up in my finished basement... but he can't risk it in his unfinished garage.

I shared with him all of the info I received from you folks on here... but he is convinced he can fix the tank and sell it for a lot more once the chip is "gone".

Oh well, we'll see how it goes. I do appreciate the help. I'll re-start my search for a nice used 125+ tank. (FYI: I did find a new 155 bow front and basic black stand for $ 1,500.00. Also found a new oceanic 155 bow front with matching stand and canopy... but that one is $ 3,000.00)

Randy


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

Sucks in a way, but some things are meant to be and some not for many reasons!! Plenty of tanks out there, just take your time and one will come along..


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Too bad. The stand and canopy were easily worth $600 alone. Probably triple that amount at retail at the minimum. I am guessing he wanted to get more money out of it really.

Andy


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

Sounds bogus to me. I can't imagine him repairing that chip such that it looks any better than it does now. Even if he does somehow achieve a better look, it will only be an aesthetic fix. I would bother him again in a month or so if you haven't found the tank you're after.

This definitely isn't the nicest or cheapest setup you will come across on CL if you keep at it. Keep us posted on the hunt! :thumb:


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Randifer said:


> jcabage said:
> 
> 
> > It's great that he is going to fill the tank for you. I would have him set it up 2-3 days before you plan to make the trip to test for leaks.
> ...


If I were a betting man the highlighted portion above is likely what changed his mind. He now knows what the custom/stand and canopy are worth and know that the chip will not affect the integrity of the tank so I bet within a week or two he re-lists it for more money.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I agree that there is no way to fix that chip. But if he thinks he can get more for it more power to him. It's a hard market for big tanks right now though. I don't think he's likely to get much more.

I should point out that the 155 bowfront is an All Glass/Aqueon tank. The Oceanic version of this tank is a taller 175 gallon that is also made with thicker glass on the sides and bottom. This tank has been discontinued for the better part of 5 years though.

Andy


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Narwhal72 said:


> I agree that there is no way to fix that chip. But if he thinks he can get more for it more power to him. It's a hard market for big tanks right now though. I don't think he's likely to get much more.
> 
> I should point out that the 155 bowfront is an All Glass/Aqueon tank. The Oceanic version of this tank is a taller 175 gallon that is also made with thicker glass on the sides and bottom. This tank has been discontinued for the better part of 5 years though.
> 
> Andy


I agree however I do have a problem if I pay a deposit for a tank and all the sudden the guy gives me the money back because he found a higher bidder. However I don't know that is the case here. It is a sore spot for me because of recent experiences. Hope that is not the case here. Just bad business.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Alas one of the problems with CL purchases. There will be no professional ethics like we would expect from a proper business.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Narwhal72 said:


> Alas one of the problems with CL purchases. There will be no professional ethics like we would expect from a proper business.


Yep...definitely frustrating. I can't tell you the number of people who want to come look at fish I am selling and never call again.


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## Craigy86 (10 mo ago)

Narwhal72 said:


> This is a clam shell chip caused by an impact. When glass is cut it doesn't cut smoothly. There are ridges and valleys in the edge. The ridges are typically called "flare". When a section of flare is impacted it will chip out like this. The crack travels parallel to the plane of the glass in a wave until it reaches the surface of the panel and then terminates.
> 
> This type of chip cannot travel any further through the glass nor will it result in any structural weakness to the aquarium. Other than the aesthetics, it's prefectly fine to use.
> 
> ...


hello andy I also have a chip on a 100 gal aquarium it’s a curved face, I have a small chip on the outside front about the size of a ball point pen (tip of then pen) maybe alittle bigger. Will this be ok with your knowledge ? Thanks regards craig


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