# Ivanacara Bimaculata



## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

I’ve sourced a pair of supposed Bimaculata.
i understand they’re extremely rare, this man said that he traveled to Guyana and captured the parents himself. 

anyone aware of care requirements? Any special treatment? I understand they prefer very soft water but there’s not much info online


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)




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## Aussieman57 (Dec 18, 2021)

Found this info. Nice fish.

*Ivanacara bimaculata*









*Genus: *_Ivanacara_
*Species: *_bimaculata_
*Group:* Dwarf cichlids
*Description:* Eigenmann
*Year:* 1912
*Previous scientific name: *_Nannacara bimaculata_
*Geographical area:* South America
*Type locality:* Erukin, Guyana.
*Distribution: The* Potaro River and its vicinity in the Essequibo River area.
*NCS Species description:* David Rejdemyhr, 2015-01-03


Temp for water
24-29 ° C

Grows to 6 cm & 80 l tank

pH 4-7

*Natural biotope*
Occurs mainly stagnant water with a lot of plants. In the biotope you will also find many decaying plant parts such as leaves and branches.

*Food*
Eats small invertebrates that it finds in the bottom sediment. Also eats plant parts and other things it finds. In aquariums, it is unpretentious and eats most of the sinking such as pellets and flake feed. Feel free to feed with live food or frozen food from time to time.

*Gender difference*
The female is smaller than the male. The male has clearer colors and markings on the gill caps as well as longer anal and breast fins.

*Aquarium environment*
Prefers a well-decorated aquarium with many plants and other hiding places in the form of roots and stones. As it is cave-playing, it is favorable to provide it with a cave of some shape.

*Behavior & play*
The species is a substrate grape that prefers a cave as a playground. For lack of it, it also likes to play on a smooth part of a rock or root. The eggs, which can be up to 300, hatch after 2-3 days and the fry are free-swimming after another 8-10 days. In brood care, the female is also very aggressive towards the male and it is usually possible to raise fry even in an aquarium with many species.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Hmmmm....


AddMeONLeagueOfLegends said:


> i understand they’re extremely rare


Yep.
And so, like a few of us have done in these situations where there are few to none who have kept the species before... you should look into the natural habitat of these Cichlids. That is, where they were collected from. What are the aquatic conditions in Guyana in the Potaro River and nearby in the Essequibo River basin? And fortunately for you, you have an outstanding resource available in the man that collected the parents of the fish you are looking at purchasing.
Some things this guy should be able to provide you,

PH of the water they were collected from. Current PH of the water they are are now in. Does he know if the PH of the aquatic environment varies due to seasonality changes in the geographic area? (Whitewater/High PH conditions during times of heavy rainfall followed by near blackwater conditions when things dry out?).
Temperature. What was the water temp in the locality these Cichlids were collected from? Hot (78 degrees plus) or something else. And once again.. the water temp they are being kept in now.
And how are these Cichlids spawning? Do the males act like 'rage machines', needing multiple females to spawn with to more safely spread aggression? Pair bonds? Is the female hyper-protective of the spawning site after fertilization? That is, in smaller tank will she potentially kill the male (or others of the same species) in protecting the eggs or free-swimming fry?
-
GREAT INFO put up by @Aussieman57! 
These little guys look and sound like they are pretty amazing. You are getting something unique and potentially valuable ($$$). Ensuring success at the source will definitely help to reassure you at least, that you are on the right track. And definitely, having a plan going in to this thing, always helps.
Good luck!


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## Aussieman57 (Dec 18, 2021)

From what I read even the females are aggressive when spawning and will aggressively guard eggs that hatch in 2-3 days and fend off "most" interlopers in a community tank. Sound like an interesting species.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

A bit like these little beasts?








Aggressive Female Checkerboard


hi all, new to the forum but not fish keeping, kept marine for many years and various planted tanks. about 4 months ago decided to venture into biotope and decided on a rio n egro black water scape in a 15g, 2 pieces of wood,lots of sticks, branches, botanicals, oak leave litter, substrate is...




www.cichlid-forum.com




People get these tiny little (Harmless?) Cichlids and place them in 10 gallon-sized (or even smaller) tanks. Then the females go on a rampage after spawning - and ALL the males die! (kinda like a Roberto Rodriguez movie?!!).
So, in attempting anything with a species that might behave anything in the aquarium like Checkerboard Cichlid females do? I would stock those in nothing smaller in size than a 20 gallon 'long' sized aquarium, with a 30" X 12" bottom footprint.


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

Good luck, this will be very interesting if you really can get them.


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Thanks everyone. They have been shipped my direction, eager to give it a shot. 
They’re going into a 125 gallon darkwater setup. I’ve got driftwood and a ton of almond leaves in there. 
thank you for the suggested questions @Auballagh


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

AddMeONLeagueOfLegends said:


> Thanks everyone. They have been shipped my direction, eager to give it a shot.
> They’re going into a 125 gallon darkwater setup. I’ve got driftwood and a ton of almond leaves in there.
> thank you for the suggested questions @Auballagh


Lucky you! The setup sounds great, keep us posted.....


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Mazan said:


> Lucky you! The setup sounds great, keep us posted.....


Thanks. The opportunity kind of fell into my lap and it’s something that may never come up again. they Will be my main priority in this aquarium so I’m hoping they will eventually breed so I can spread the love. They are both juvies so we shall see what becomes of it


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## The Fish Lady (7 mo ago)

AddMeONLeagueOfLegends said:


> View attachment 143064


Hi!😃😃
Omg! What a beautiful baby!!😃😃
What a blessing; ey? 
I'd look on Google for this is what I'd do!😃


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

The Fish Lady said:


> Hi!😃😃
> Omg! What a beautiful baby!!😃😃
> What a blessing; ey?
> I'd look on Google for this is what I'd do!😃


Thanks! I could only find the bare minimum on google, I was looking in case anyone has had the chance to work with them before. Here’s the 125 they’re going into. There are some angels and Cacatuoides but I’ll remove anything that becomes a problem for the newbies. I don’t foresee any issues though. May add some pottery but don’t want to detract from the natural look. I only used 1/4th of my almond leaves, may add twice this amount since there are shrimp in there too. I dont expect the shrimp to last forever


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## smitty (May 7, 2004)

AddMeONLeagueOfLegends said:


> Thanks! I could only find the bare minimum on google, I was looking in case anyone has had the chance to work with them before. Here’s the 125 they’re going into. There are some angels and Cacatuoides but I’ll remove anything that becomes a problem for the newbies. I don’t foresee any issues though. May add some pottery but don’t want to detract from the natural look. I only used 1/4th of my almond leaves, may add twice this amount since there are shrimp in there too. I dont expect the shrimp to last forever
> View attachment 143070
> 
> View attachment 143071


I love that tank.


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

smitty said:


> I love that tank.


Thank you! The apistos add a lot of character and the angels are like puppies. I’ve been enjoying it more than my reef tank lately, who knew!?


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## The Fish Lady (7 mo ago)

AddMeONLeagueOfLegends said:


> Thank you! The apistos add a lot of character and the angels are like puppies. I’ve been enjoying it more than my reef tank lately, who knew!?
> View attachment 143072


Hi!😃
If you have Angels then the shrimp won't last long, you are correct, but it'll be nutritious for them though. 
I love the tank!!! Omg! It's actually amazing, fish buddy; wow!!😃
I have 1 of our tanks with 5 Angelfish and 2 aquatic African Dwarf frogs and a tiny Black Kuhli that we're trying to get grown out so that he can be transferred to our Community tank right now. Hmmm....😃


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## The Fish Lady (7 mo ago)




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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

AddMeONLeagueOfLegends said:


> Thanks! I could only find the bare minimum on google, I was looking in case anyone has had the chance to work with them before. Here’s the 125 they’re going into. There are some angels and Cacatuoides but I’ll remove anything that becomes a problem for the newbies. I don’t foresee any issues though. May add some pottery but don’t want to detract from the natural look. I only used 1/4th of my almond leaves, may add twice this amount since there are shrimp in there too. I dont expect the shrimp to last forever
> View attachment 143070
> 
> 
> ...


It looks good, and will be even better when the plants grow more. I would consider adding more wood to provide more structure at the higher parts of the tank. Make plenty of natural caves and crevices rather than adding pottery, and maybe add some floating plants?. Something like this one of mine that I would put Ivanacara in if I could get them...

On that subject, a while back my local fish shop owner told me he might be able to get Ivanacara bimaculata, and, like you, I tried to do some research on them and found very little, except that they are very rare in the hobby, come from a remote location in Guayana and are practically impossible to get unless someone goes there to collect them. At this point I became dubious and asked the guy again, he said they were coming from Indonesia! And conceded they might have been I. adoketa after all, but in any case it was too late to order them as they had sold out. All very strange! Here is the tank I would have put them in, and it normally has more leaf litter, need to get some more...


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## The Fish Lady (7 mo ago)

Mazan said:


> It looks good, and will be even better when the plants grow more. I would consider adding more wood to provide more structure at the higher parts of the tank. Make plenty of natural caves and crevices rather than adding pottery, and maybe add some floating plants?. Something like this one of mine that I would put Ivanacara in if I could get them...
> 
> On that subject, a while back my local fish shop owner told me he might be able to get Ivanacara bimaculata, and, like you, I tried to do some research on them and found very little, except that they are very rare in the hobby, come from a remote location in Guayana and are practically impossible to get unless someone goes there to collect them. At this point I became dubious and asked the guy again, he said they were coming from Indonesia! And conceded they might have been I. adoketa after all, but in any case it was too late to order them as they had sold out. All very strange! Here is the tank I would have put them in, and it normally has more leaf litter, need to get some more...
> 
> View attachment 143076


Hi!😃
Omg! Be still my heart! I love your aquarium! How awesome!😃 wow! You definitely have a flair for this hobby and I'm applauding you, our fish buddy!😃
Any type of babies would love living in this blessed habitat; wow!!😃 it takes me breath away!!😃😃😃😃😀


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

The Fish Lady said:


> Hi!😃
> If you have Angels then the shrimp won't last long, you are correct, but it'll be nutritious for them though.
> I love the tank!!! Omg! It's actually amazing, fish buddy; wow!!😃
> I have 1 of our tanks with 5 Angelfish and 2 aquatic African Dwarf frogs and a tiny Black Kuhli that we're trying to get grown out so that he can be transferred to our Community tank right now. Hmmm....😃


i love your tank! I’m sure I’ll lose most of the shrimp but it’s for the good of the colony 


Mazan said:


> It looks good, and will be even better when the plants grow more. I would consider adding more wood to provide more structure at the higher parts of the tank. Make plenty of natural caves and crevices rather than adding pottery, and maybe add some floating plants?. Something like this one of mine that I would put Ivanacara in if I could get them...
> 
> On that subject, a while back my local fish shop owner told me he might be able to get Ivanacara bimaculata, and, like you, I tried to do some research on them and found very little, except that they are very rare in the hobby, come from a remote location in Guayana and are practically impossible to get unless someone goes there to collect them. At this point I became dubious and asked the guy again, he said they were coming from Indonesia! And conceded they might have been I. adoketa after all, but in any case it was too late to order them as they had sold out. All very strange! Here is the tank I would have put them in, and it normally has more leaf litter, need to get some more...
> 
> View attachment 143076


Thank you for your feedback, I will definitely be looking to get mine looking more like yours. What do you keep in there? It looks like a slice off a riverbank! 
I just added some water lettuce, hopefully that brings more natural vibes. I want to avoid pottery after seeing your example. Looks like I need some more wood! Does the decaying organic matter on your substrate affect your parameters? I’ve been wondering if itaffects our tanks like overfeeding, it was the main reason I held off on adding more almond leaves. It looks so nice and natural


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

In that tank at the moment I just have some Copella and a few Otocinclus. I started with 6 Copella but now there are more than 20! I have been waiting for some interesting dwarf cichlids to become available, but here (in Ecuador, surprisingly maybe), they are very rarely available, just keeping my eyes open until something interesting turns up. I have other tanks with bigger cichlids.

Regarding the almond leaves and wood, I have never had a problem with them, even though I have soft water with low KH, the pH doesn't seem to drop below 6.6-6.8. Perhaps because I do regular weekly water changes (tap water is 6.8). Without the water changes maybe the pH would gradually decrease, but that would probably not be a problem for your fish.


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## fishybuisness (Apr 3, 2020)

AddMeONLeagueOfLegends said:


> Thanks! I could only find the bare minimum on google, I was looking in case anyone has had the chance to work with them before. Here’s the 125 they’re going into. There are some angels and Cacatuoides but I’ll remove anything that becomes a problem for the newbies. I don’t foresee any issues though. May add some pottery but don’t want to detract from the natural look. I only used 1/4th of my almond leaves, may add twice this amount since there are shrimp in there too. I dont expect the shrimp to last forever
> View attachment 143070
> 
> View attachment 143071


Ivanacara Bimaculata is an extremely uncommon fish in the hobby and has been rarely documented. I would strongly recommend you ask the person you are getting these fish from for photos they took. The photo of the fish is from a YouTube video (maybe you know this, just letting you know.) If you are to successfully keep a pair and attempt to breed them, blackwater is recommended with a pH below 6 and a very low TDS. Your aquarium is beautiful, and great for the current occupants, but if they were to spawn all fry would be eaten by the tetras as well as the angels. A 125 is a very large aquarium, but cacatudoies may still harass the newcomers. I recommend adding more sight-blocks as well as a layer of leaf litter. 


Hopefully you are able to acquire true Bimaculata as these fish are rarely collected, even if your supplier said they were collecting true bimaculata it's more than possible they collected adoketa instead. These are still a rare fish and require similar parameters. 




> The only recent report about N, (I.) bimaculata that I know about is in Romer's Cichlid Atas 1. Romer reports that Franz Vermeulin collected the species in 1997. Vermeulin told Romer that the water was similar to that of I. adoketa: blackwater, very acidic (<pH 5.5) and extremely soft (almost no hardness of any kind at all). There are no known reports of successful reproduction that I know about.


 This quote is from Mike Wise, whom is a dwarf cichlid authority on apistogramma.com.


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

I think that quote from Mike Wise might have been in answer to my post, when I very briefly thought I might be able to get some…


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

AddMeONLeagueOfLegends said:


> i love your tank! I’m sure I’ll lose most of the shrimp but it’s for the good of the colony
> 
> Thank you for your feedback, I will definitely be looking to get mine looking more like yours. What do you keep in there? It looks like a slice off a riverbank!
> I just added some water lettuce, hopefully that brings more natural vibes. I want to avoid pottery after seeing your example. Looks like I need some more wood! Does the decaying organic matter on your substrate affect your parameters? I’ve been wondering if itaffects our tanks like overfeeding, it was the main reason I held off on adding more almond leaves. It looks so nice and natural


Just realised you are probably referring to nitrates rather than pH. Well in this tank I can barely register nitrates, the seachem test comes out the palest pink there is (0- 0.1). Low stocking, and water lettuce soaks them up. Never have any ammonia or nitrates.

Also I was wondering where you are in the world? When I was investigating this species before I remember that someone in Sweden had some and was breeding them…

Also if you do keep them in the community tank, though obviously not ideal, it is still possible to rear some fry if you take some out when they are free swimming and rear them separately. I have done this with Laetacara. Good luck anyway!


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. The fish arrived today and are swimming around. Can't get a pic yet but they are very bland from shipping. I'll need help ensuring the identity for sure!



Mazan said:


> Just realised you are probably referring to nitrates rather than pH. Well in this tank I can barely register nitrates, the seachem test comes out the palest pink there is (0- 0.1). Low stocking, and water lettuce soaks them up. Never have any ammonia or nitrates.
> 
> Also I was wondering where you are in the world? When I was investigating this species before I remember that someone in Sweden had some and was breeding them…
> 
> Also if you do keep them in the community tank, though obviously not ideal, it is still possible to rear some fry if you take some out when they are free swimming and rear them separately. I have done this with Laetacara. Good luck anyway!


i'm in the northwest US. These fish were shipped to me from Sweden! Does he have any threads? Anything at all I can read documenting their care?


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

Interesting, and very hopeful that they are the correct fish!

I only found these, not much information here but you might be able to contact him. 






Selling - Ivanacara bimaculata


Hi, I have multiple pairs and fry of Ivanacara bimaculata for sale. These are offspring from fish collected in Guyana in 2019. The fish must be picked up in Stockholm/Örebro, Sweden. If anyone is interested in buying a larger quantity there might be a chance to get them delivered to countries...




apistogramma.com


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

That must be the man i bought from. Same video he sent to me, and same origination point- stockholm. Anyone familiar with that seller/reputation?


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

@Aussieman57 @Auballagh @fishybuisness @Mazan
They are out and about, dancing with eachother already. one of them ate a cherry shrimp.. I was worried it would choke tbh. The white spot by their anus is much more apparent in real life, but some of these photos were able to capture it. Any thoughts?


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Also- the breeder responded to that list of questions you suggested, here’s what he said.
The fish shipped from Sweden.

The most prominent difference between the sexes is that the females have a white spot around their genital opening on the belly. See the following two pictures for example:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...jpg/640px-Nannacara_bimaculata_Armbruster.jpg
https://www.ciklid.org/artregister/artbild/i_bimaculata05par-hans_vermeulen.jpg

As for your other questions:

Temperature in biotope around 25 C. pH 4.5. I don't expect pH to fluctuate much over the year, it is a blackwater biotope. Similar conditions in aquaria. Higher pH is fine if you don't wish to spawn them.

They have a pretty loose pair bond. Either the female or the male may become aggressive before/during spawning. Mainly the female takes care of the spawn in my experience but the male helps to guard the offspring. They are pretty bad parents and often eat their eggs and they will start to chase their offspring when they reach around 1,5-2 cm (if the pair decides to spawn again).

If you wish to spawn them it is best to spawn them in a tank of their own. I don't realistically see them successfully spawning and keeping their fry in a community tank. I spawned mine in tanks ranging between 30-50 liters. It is easy to get them to lay eggs but it is more difficult to get free swimming fry. Probably because the parents are quite skittish when they have spawned. They prefer a tank that is very well decorated with lots of hiding places and floating plants to ensure that the tank is not too bright. These things seem to be key in order to get a successful spawn, in my experience.


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

Useful information, and yours are looking good considering they just arrived. Keep us posted.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Totally seeing that male already in your fresh arrivals from Sweden.
That's a good thing.
Showing and displaying natural coloration is a key indicator of an overall acceptance of the environment. That is - Not too stressed.
And so, now?
It's.....
One.
Step.
At.
A.
Time.......
Or, as they say, "To Spawn, or Not Too Spawn?"
That IS the question.


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

I added more plants tonight and moved the wood around, the fish really colored up nicely afterwards. he chased her around a bit and then they were dancing with eachother, swimming in very tight circles to the point of rubbing one another. I wish I had caught a picture.
any plant or hardscaping advice? I’m new to plants In freshwater so if you have shggestions I’d love to hear them.
i plan to keep adding rocks and plants, I buy two new seiryu stones every couple weeks. I have enough almond leaves to double up on what’s in the aquarium. Should I?
The male squared off with my Cacatuoides tonight, no actual fighting.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Oh wow.
Your aquarium is looking very nice. 
The look you have now, and the direction you are taking it, seem very good to me!
Just a couple details I can offer, that you could consider.

Add some Java moss to some of your textured/rougher surface rocks. Plus, a little of it placed here & there on some bog wood pieces would look pretty nice. Esp. if you can mask any of those wood pieces with visible cut points or other artificial places showing. Super glue actually works pretty good to get that stuff started out where you want to place it.
Anubias comes in a bewildering array of types, sizes and actual species. You might want to indulge yourself online and look at potentially purchasing some of the less common types. Placing a mix of those different types onto the wood and some rocks looks pretty natural, and helps to sustain continued strong growth throughout. That is, if you have a species that is being a temporary 'sulker' or something... another Anubias species might be reacting differently and booming in growth for you.
Otherwise, your aquarium looks a little young, but has got some nice bones and should grow out for you into something pretty outstanding!


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Auballagh said:


> Oh wow.
> Your aquarium is looking very nice.
> The look you have now, and the direction you are taking it, seem very good to me!
> Just a couple details I can offer, that you could consider.
> ...


Thank you! I didn’t know it could be super glued. I was just going to get some super glue for my reef tank, now I have even more reasoning. I’ve been struggling to hide the edges on my wood and I’d been using rock piles. Java moss incoming!


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Keep us updated on your progress with more pics! This one will be fun to watch develop.


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## The Fish Lady (7 mo ago)

AddMeONLeagueOfLegends said:


> Thank you! I didn’t know it could be super glued. I was just going to get some super glue for my reef tank, now I have even more reasoning. I’ve been struggling to hide the edges on my wood and I’d been using rock piles. Java moss incoming!


Hi!😃
And, you can use Gorilla glue too!😃 yep! and it doesn't hurt your babies at all! We like to use the glue sticks to not have to wait too long of a drying time!😃


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

I was told on a different forum that these Bimaculata will require RODI water, which means the Cacatuoides will need to go. Does anyone have any insight on this matter?
due to the Bimaculata rarity I do t mind prioritizing them, just looking for opinions on water standards


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

I am not sure as there is so little information about them, but I would not be surprised if they need very soft, low pH water to breed successfully (for the eggs to be fertile and not attacked by fungus), even if the adults can survive OK in slightly harder water. You might find you eventually have aggression issues with the cacatuoides anyway.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

+1 to @Mazan on that.
-
The water chemistry needs of the _I bimaculata_ will definitely have precedence over the _A. cacatuoides._ But, of the two I would believe that the little Cockatoos will be the most adaptable to the water chemistry conditions in the aquarium. Found naturally in the wild at higher elevations with white water conditions up to a PH of 8.0, on down to the basin where things get down to the mid - high 6 range in PH - this species should be able to adapt well to whatever you deem is necessary for keeping the _I bimaculata_.
However, softening the water is one thing, but I would be careful not to let the PH get below 6.0, as that will make it tough for many species of aquatic plants to grow in the aquarium. Plus, be careful when stripping your tap water out with RO that you don't remove too much of the dissolved minerals out of it. The water will lose almost all buffering ability when that happens, causing the PH to sort of go crazy on you in the aquarium - a BAD result for everyone.


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

Many people keep blackwater tanks with RO water and very low pH (4-4.5), they maintain a thick leaf litter bed and apparently the humic substances act as a buffer to prevent pH fluctuations. I don't speak from experience, just what I have read.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Oh man.... PH 4.0? Battery acid! 
(Not really...).
But yes, if that PH drops below 6.0 in the aquarium? That would definitely be too low in PH to keep _A. cacatuoides_.


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Thanks for the input everyone. on the Apistogramma forum they were suggesting I try to get under 5 for PH. So low! The fish are happy and colorful now, but I would prefer successful breeding over non obviously. 
how fast is too fast when reducing PH? I know it needs to be a slow process to preserve their health. I’ve added another 70 almond leaves but when I get home from work, I think I may need to take a bunch out to avoid swinging too fast. I think 70 may have been a mistake. This is my first time trying almond leaves to manage PH. I just don’t want to make any mistakes That cause death.


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

I don't think adding those almond leaves will change the pH very quickly, but adding that many at once might deplete the oxygen in the tank, just keep an eye on things...


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Mazan said:


> I don't think adding those almond leaves will change the pH very quickly, but adding that many at once might deplete the oxygen in the tank, just keep an eye on things...


Thanks for that, I forgot to add that I’ve got three bubblers in there for now. How long do you think the additional aeration will be needed?
would you personally approach this differently than I am when it comes to PH? I’m thirsty for input 😈


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

I think you are doing everything right, but I am not very experienced at this, I do have very soft water with almost no KH, but the pH out of the tap is about 6.8. I have always added almond leaves to some tanks but the pH has never dropped significantly despite the low KH, probably as I do regular water changes. That said I have never put 70 leaves in at once, that might make a difference.


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Mazan said:


> I think you are doing everything right, but I am not very experienced at this, I do have very soft water with almost no KH, but the pH out of the tap is about 6.8. I have always added almond leaves to some tanks but the pH has never dropped significantly despite the low KH, probably as I do regular water changes. That said I have never put 70 leaves in at once, that might make a difference.


Do you think almond leaves would be more effective in RODI water? In an apistogramma forum I’m being told I need RODI for the Bimaculata and I’m not fully understanding why low TDS is needed for some soft waters while it isn’t really suggested for others, such as my cacatuoides. I’ve got the RODI unit for my reef tank so I’ve been doing RODI as about 70% of my WC make-up


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

AddMeONLeagueOfLegends said:


> Do you think almond leaves would be more effective in RODI water? In an apistogramma forum I’m being told I need RODI for the Bimaculata and I’m not fully understanding why low TDS is needed for some soft waters while it isn’t really suggested for others, such as my cacatuoides. I’ve got the RODI unit for my reef tank so I’ve been doing RODI as about 70% of my WC make-up


Probably, I have not measured the TDS or conductivity of my water and never used RO water as my water is so soft. It is the true blackwater species that need this sort of water with very low pH, conductivity and TDS. I think one reason is the very low bacterial count of this type of water, fishes have not evolved immunity to infections they never encounter. A. Cacatuoides is not a blackwater fish and is found in a range of different water conditions.


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Little update 
theyve been improving their color daily. I feed them frozen food nearly every day and they seem to love it.
the supposed male seems to be displaying a breeding tube for the last week or so.
the first pic is the one I think is male. The suspected female is looking noticeably better with a hint of yellow 
i’ve noticed the female chasing the male around much more than usual they usually end up dancing.


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

Very nice! The last two pictures are the female? Appears to have the breeding tube out, but difficult to see for sure as the photo is not in focus, but looks to be female.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I agree clearer pics would be helpful.

I've not seen a breeding tube that large before, are you sure it's not swollen tissue?


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

Deeda said:


> I've not seen a breeding tube that large before, are you sure it's not swollen tissue?


I was thinking the same, but then wondered if it looks bigger due to the white patch these fish have just there, and with the photo being not clear I wasn't sure.


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Mazan said:


> Very nice! The last two pictures are the female? Appears to have the breeding tube out, but difficult to see for sure as the photo is not in focus, but looks to be female.





Deeda said:


> I agree clearer pics would be helpful.
> 
> I've not seen a breeding tube that large before, are you sure it's not swollen tissue?


No, I am not sure. I have some concern about this because it’s on what I suspect to be the MALE. It was my impression that acara tubes are significantly smaller than this anyways. it’s extremely hard to capture in a photo. He pooped a few minutes after those last pictures, which may be contributing to the size. Even when not preparing to deficate, I feel the tube is larger than it should be. i Am at work right now but will get better pics tonight And post them immediately.

appetite is FEROCIOUS
if this was your fish, how would you treat swollen tissue in the anus? Treat the food with something like Metro? Epsom? Peas? I tried a pea last night but no luck. I picked up some garlic additive to try again tonight. My other cause for concern is that this particular fish has been showing this tube thing for nearly a week, I haven’t seen it retract.

here’s the only crappy pics I have on me. The first pic is from the same night, the second pic is what it usually looks like


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

Hmm yes, a male breeding tube should be much smaller, thinner and pointed. I believe Epsom salts can be used to treat an anal prolapse but I have never experienced this and have no idea of the dosage or how to go about treating it. Hopefully someone else can help


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) is a good option to help reduce swelling and the suggested dosage is 1 tablespoon Epsom salt per 5 gallon of aquarium water, added slowly to the aquarium over a couple hours and watch the fish for any adverse reactions. 

You can also use the bath method and adjust dosage to the size of the container and I think the suggestion is a maximum of 30 minutes but again watch for adverse reactions.

You may be better off dosing the bath method as I think you are running a low pH and alkalinity tank? I'm not sure of your tank water parameters so it may be helpful to post them up.


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Mazan said:


> Hmm yes, a male breeding tube should be much smaller, thinner and pointed. I believe Epsom salts can be used to treat an anal prolapse but I have never experienced this and have no idea of the dosage or how to go about treating it. Hopefully someone else can help





Deeda said:


> Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) is a good option to help reduce swelling and the suggested dosage is 1 tablespoon Epsom salt per 5 gallon of aquarium water, added slowly to the aquarium over a couple hours and watch the fish for any adverse reactions.
> 
> You can also use the bath method and adjust dosage to the size of the container and I think the suggestion is a maximum of 30 minutes but again watch for adverse reactions.
> 
> You may be better off dosing the bath method as I think you are running a low pH and alkalinity tank? I'm not sure of your tank water parameters so it may be helpful to post them up.


I reached out to the breeder and shared all of these pictures. This morning, he responded:


> Nothing to be concerned about. This is completely normal for this species. The females always look like this, sometimes it even becomes red, looking very much like the fish would be ill, but all the females look like this, also in the wild.


this brings me relief, I had become more and more sure of prolapse as I read online. I still find it very odd and peculiar
i am also surprised, because this fish was the one I suspected to be male. It’s been showing the darker colors lately.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Glad you got a response from the breeder that it is normal.


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## Mazan (Dec 15, 2021)

Good, I initially thought it was a female from the first photos.


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

The Cacatuoides laid eggs on the underside of a leaf 
cute little fish. They try to act tough to the bimaculatas but they can’t even phase them. The female seems to do all the legwork but the male will come flare up quite often. Her defensive instincts are so beautiful to observe. I appreciate they they rely on intimidation instead of fin tearing. I put a ton of almond leaves piled around the nest so she stays hidden and it’s worked well to lower stress, she just hangs out in the leaf pile now. Doubt the babies will make it too long in here though


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

My Cacatuoides hatched their eggs and my bimaculata ate a decent number of them as expected. Within two days, my female Bimaculata began exhibiting defensive tendencies and staying near her nest. No visible eggs yet but it’s within a huge cluster of almond leaves so I can’t get a good view. 
they are like puppies. If I tap the aquarium they swim to the surface to beg. they follow my whenever I walk past the aquarium little hogs!


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Oh wow... the coloration on your _I. bimaculata_ is really starting to pop. They look great!


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## AddMeONLeagueOfLegends (9 mo ago)

Auballagh said:


> Oh wow... the coloration on your _I. bimaculata_ is really starting to pop. They look great!


thank you! They have more color every week. The blue is starting to show nicely 
I continue to use RODI for their water changes. 
I’m obsessed with these fish. They’re fearless but they don’t instigate and I love that. The Cacatuoides continue to breed and they can do nothing to dissuade these Bimac (who aren’t genuinely interested in the first place) it’s like watching a fly try to kill a horse 😂
They Aren’t side by side all of the time, but any time the female starts working on a nest, the male guards closely.


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

I came across a group of four adults someone had traded in at a local shop, but I was totally not ready to pull the trigger on that. I had these on my fishkeeping bucket list, and after seeing them in person, I have to say these are really special. Just watching them interact with each other even in a totally sub-optimal environment was really cool. I'd love to hear more about how this is all going for you.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

These ARE super cool little Cichlids. 
But be advised: They are totally *BLACK WATER* in nature, and probably have zero to almost no resistance to bacteria infections occurring in alkaline water. People start sweating it when the PH gets up past 6.4 in the aquarium with these guys!
So, it's a full-on Reverse Osmosis system to supply your tank, or you're blessed with water that is naturally soft and acidic for keeping these guys (the soap NEVER rinses off in the shower with tap water like that).


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

Yeah, I was totally not ready to take these on yet, it’s more of a bucket list idea. My tap is very low tds with PH about 6.8. I will do my homework on black water before ever getting into these. 


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