# Live Malawi Cichlid Aquarium Cam - advise, comments wanted!



## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

Hi all, I'm somewhat new to fishkeeping and even newer at Malawi Cichlids. I think I've got a pretty good handle on things but would love any advice or observations about my current 75G Mbuna tank. I think it's in pretty good shape overall but I'll let you be the judge.

The stream is here:










There are currently two cameras on rotation. More information about the tank, challenges, etc are shown in the description. I didn't want to cross post the stream/tank description here as the tank details might change over time.

Thanks!


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

Hi Adam. Awesome Idea to show a live feed. I love the rock set up in the tank,but wish we could get some views from the front somehow. Maybe a couple still shots in this thread?

I noticed on the youtube page you mention being fairly new to keeping Malawi cichlids. 
I would love to provide some honest feedback/advice. Mostly on your current stocklist
The youtube page states you have 9 different species of cichlids in a 75 gallon tank. correct?
I must inform you this is not ideal for long term prosperity of any of the tanks inhabitants.
When I say long term I mean 2+ years. I would seriously dial down on this list,picking just 4 of the species you truly prefer best.
I also cn tell you keeping the Orange Metriaclima,and Yellow Labidochromis will likely be an issue. They will almost certainly cross breed.This will cause issues much later down the road,because their offspring will have completely unforseen,and undesired traits. Also keeping 2 different Melanochromis species together will cause many of those same issues,and more due to their Aggressive reputation. Of the species you own .You also lack any true harem outside of possibly the 4 socolofi you listed. Malwai cichlids,mbuna in particular are always going to thrive when kept in harems. Keeping 1 male to at least 3-4 females per species in widely known as the best way to keep them. By you only having just 2 of of each variety in many cases,I can assure you many issues will arise further down the road. Especially.I notice you keeping only 2 Johanni,2 Auratus,and 2 Demasoni. In my,and many other keeper's experience,this will likely lead to loss of life in many of your fish. Often keeping just two of any malawi cichlid would eventually lead to having just one. Those species I mentioned in particular though are truly considered the trouble makers of all mbuna. So changing this specific set up you currently own is not optional. Why? Well because either you choose to change the set up to accomodate the proper requirements,or the fish will choose for you. I personally do not like my mbuna making choices for me!! I don't say any of this not realizing the possible attachment you may have to these fish already. They are your fishy friends,I can respect that for sure.I only wanted to provide some helpful,hopefully friendly advice from a long time keeper.As for what I would suggest actually change?

Remove all these fishes from the current setup.
Haplochromis Venustus
Melanochromis Auratus
Melanochromis Johanni
Metriaclima Zebra(you call them orange) Most call them Commonly as Red Zebra. I call them Estherea
Cynotilapi Jalo Reef
And all babies,because they will hybrids likely.

This will leave you with 4 species of cichlid. 
Pseudotropheus Demasoni
Metriaclma Aurora
Pseudotropheus Socolofi
Labidochromis Caeruleus( I'm seeing the Yellow Labs in the video) this is how I know your labidochromis species is Caeruleus

Now you need to make certain to up the numbers on two of the four species. (your list shows 4 Socolofi,and 4 Aurora that should be ok)
So adding 3-4 Labidochromis.
Plus,ready for this? around 13 or more Demasoni!!!that's right. Why? Because Demasoni are actually referred to as the extra work mbuna!! Demasoni are supposed to be kept in large groups,usually no less than 12. So if you add another 13 at least,this will give you some wiggle room to remove extra males,and eventually sit on a number around 12 total Demasoni.

Also Your Labidochromis,Socolofi,and Aurora,ratios need to be 1 male to at least 3 females. per species. at least!! I personally overstock my tanks using the method of adding extra females for each species. Doing this instead of adding extra species,ensures less male to male aggression in a tank. That type of aggression can cause a ton stress on the other fish. Ideally in a 75 you want 4 species,so there would only be 4 males in there. If you need help identifying the males from females,post here. CF is full of helpful keepers,who have been down the same road. If you choose to do no changes at all. I hold no judgments,and actually wish you luck.

P.S. Is there a 3D backgound in this tank? It looks like there is. I noticed in the youtube page a comment about so many babies. Malawi cichlids breed like crazy. Having one of the 3D backgrounds looks amazing,but it also has an added effect of providing very good shelter for baby cichlids. I have 2 tanks with 3d backgrounds and I know from experience the amount of extra fish that come along with having them. So it will be very difficult to keep the babies from growing up with a background installed.
Many keepers who wish not to keep babies will stock their tanks with synodontis multipunctatus(cuckoo catfish). These catfish actually interrupt mbuna breeding while secretly adding there own spawn to the mix. LOL. The result? Mbuna carry the catfish fry in their mouths instead of their own.which the cafish fry also eat any mbuna fry swimming around in there as well. I'ts some sort of maternal sabotage tactic the catfish has adapted. I don't keep multipunctatus,and as such I really don't know a ton about them,but man others have reported this well known behavior. If you really wanna bring down the baby count. This would help a lot.


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

This is PRECISELY the kind of reply I was hoping for Master Chi. Thanks! I wanted to mount the cam with it facing the front but it's not currently possible given the layout of the room. Let me grab some images and digest your recommendations. I'll get back ASAP. Thanks again!


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

Your welcome. I joined this forum to get the same kind of feedback after taking a long break from keeping cichlids.I'm happy to pay forward any info I've received. On another note. Your streaming of the tank Now makes me feel like I have 4 malawii tanks instead of 3. I find myself coming back to watch your fish,after watching my fish.LOL!! I love the idea even more than I did this morning.


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

Here are a few front facing pics. Light wasn't that great but you get the idea...

IMG_0001 by Adam Powers, on Flickr

IMG_7781 by Adam Powers, on Flickr

As you can see from the pics the tank is heavily "decorated". The rocks are granite from a local Georgia mine and looks pretty good overall. The only real problem I've had is that the granite is sharp when it's first installed and can cut the fish. This problem seems to diminish as the rocks "age" and algae grows over the sharp parts.

The 3D background was ordered from a company in Serbia. They do amazing work but are a bit pricey. That background ran me $180.

http://www.aquadecor.rs/en/

I added a project to the stream description for "Manage Population". I'm not sure why I haven't been more concerned with the species mix before now. I guess I've been too focused on getting the water right, maint schedule defined, etc. Plus they all seem to be getting along okay after I removed one or two troublemakers. But to your point, the way it is now just isn't sustainable.

When I initially populated the tank I used this guide to select the species with the idea of (just like you said) 4 groups of about 6 fish: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_75g.php

Unfortunately as you can see I didn't follow the guide. I tried to, but when I couldn't find the fish I needed per the guide I sorta went wild and bought pretty much every juvenile I could find in local stores with the assumption that I would cull later. Terrible idea, terrible planning, and just overall terrible husbandry. I should have been more patient and/or ordered the right fish.

Anyway, the hybrid baby issue is real and I'm already seeing babies that I don't recognize. And *yes* the background is beautiful but it creates a HUGE number of spots for them to hide. Currently I count about 15 babies in various holes and cracks throughout the tank. There are three yellow labs that look to be "pure". I could probably keep them and let them grow. I also have about 4 light blue Demonsoni. I can probably let them stay in an effort to get to the 12+ number you suggested.

I'm liking the idea of the cuckoo catfish. I'll look into getting a few.

QUESTION: Should the Pectis and Syn catfish be removed if I'm adding the Cuckoo? The Syns are already rather large. One of them is about 5 inches. From what I understand they can grow to 12+. That's not gonna work given the current hardscape. Another stocking decision that seems not-so-wise in hindsight. 

QUESTION2: Is is okay to leave the "pure" babies in the tank with the parents? Will the babies breed with the parents to create genetic diversity problems?

Also, I've read about a number of techniques for catching fish in an aquarium with this kind of hardscape but the idea of rooting a specific fish out of that tank is scary. I'm afraid I'll tear the tank up and stress the fish out trying to catch the right ones. I think I'm going to try building a trap as suggested by various people and catch them that way. Any other ideas?


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## thestanz (Nov 10, 2015)

All I can muster right now is .... freakin rad


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

I have no idea what synodontis your keeping now. I have some luccipinis that stay with a lone longistrosis(big guy) no problem. I've also read different threads on catfish forums explaining multi species syno tanks they own successfully.The Pictus(likely an american fish) probably poses no problem to anyone. But also doesn't really belong. If it's doing fine,and you really like having it,I think you could just keep it.I guess my thoughts on this really are the catfish are your lowest concern right now.your 1st one is acquiring a decent amount of Demasoni. Since I obviously read the numbers wrong on the youtube page. ( I missed the 6 next to labidochromis) Also after watching the stream for awhile and re reading your list,you also have a group of Yellow Tail Acei in there. Those fish are not listed.So another species that must be accounted for....

If I was in your shoes at this point,I would get in contact with some fish stores willing to take the melanochromis,haplochromis,cynotilapia,Aurora and Yellow labs.
Why the Labs and Aurora? well I have watched the stream for awhile now LOL!! I have decided I really love your Male Zebra. He looks Awesome,and is also the current tank boss. You don't want 2 metriaclima species so There goes Aurora.Plus you have a group of Acei though I only count 2. These would be my 4th species.

So for me ... LOL I would be keeping..
Demasoni
Red Zebras
Socolofi
Acei
Remember this would be if I were you scenario. I'm not you so you might love the Yellow Labs,and Aurora more.

Also I count 4 Red Zebras in your tank. Lucky you,it looks like a possible 1M/3F harem..But seriously that male is gorgeous Even though all but one of them are Orange Blotch,that really doesn't matter to me. They're the same species still.

Now... I catch fish like this... Empty the tank water to a low point( like 50%) or a little more. remove rocks.( I know it sucks) divide your tank somehow. (I use a store bought divider,but a huge net will work. the divider should be taller than than the height of your reduced water.now you have 2 smaller tanks to net your fish. It works very well. I use 2 nets also. If you use a large net to divide your tank this can be your 2nd net. Removing your rocks is the hardest part,and takes the most time. Still,it's easier than trying to net them while they hide under every single rock,and will actually take less time overall.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

Oh yeah. Thank you for the frontal view shots. The tank is amazing.looks fantastic. Dial in your fish,and this will be an absolute gem for a long time.


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

Quick note: That male zebra is a major alpha fish. Always doing crazy acrobatics to get algae. I thought about that fish when looking over the ones I would have to give up. He's a stallion. I'm glad I'm not the only person that studies these fish. I would feel a bit silly.

Also yes, I forgot about the Acai. I like those two fish quite a bit. They mostly just chill on their own. Bottom line is that I have to figure out the stocking. I'll work on it and post back when I have some results.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

I'll keep tuning in..


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

Hi Chi et al, building a massive 177G L-shaped corner tank to replace the existing 75G.When you get a second take a look at this post for details, comments welcome.

http://siclid.net/2016/03/05/detailed-p ... d-show-v2/


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

UPDATE: You can now control which cam is being shown through YouTube Live chat. Type "setcam=FRONT" for front view, "setcam=RIGHT", etc. More options on the way. Comments, bug reports, etc welcomed!

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheCichlidShow/live


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

New Cichlid Show livestream feature: Initiate a Thunderstorm

YouTube Live viewers can now control both how the stream looks *and* what happens in the tank. Type #STORMSTART to begin a 3 minute simulated thunderstorm complete with lightning, cloud cover, and thunder.

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheCichlidShow/live

!!! IMPORTANT NOTE !!! The stream is typically 15-25 seconds behind real-time. To see how far behind the stream is simply right click in the YouTube video window and select "stats for nerds". Then find the "Live latency" value toward the bottom. That's how long commands will take to become visible on the live stream.


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

Hi all, it's been 12 months since the tank was first populated. I stocked the entire tank with an initial community of random juvenile Mbunas only to learn later that it REALLY DOES MATTER what species you stock together. I've had multiple spats between fish that resulted in death for the weaker fish. But it's settled out nicely and the number of fish has grown from 30 to ~70 (including the fry tank). The video shows the initial community and then the same fish a year later. Amazing how fast a tank matures if you keep up with it.






And as always here's the live stream (newly updated HUD look and feel):

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheCichlidShow/live


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## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

looking good

though i have to say it was funny to watch that male auratus. you can tell all the fish are mostly kinda just mellow and staying in same spot, occasionally moving around to make room for other fish, but that auratus is just constantly on the move, non-stop. i still love those things for their personality even though they are total tank ********. have you had good luck with him so far? I've seen him chasing a few fish around occasionally but he seems to be spreading the aggression around and not picking on any one fish, maybe due to the high stock level? he's clearly capable of it though...

i'm starting up a 120g myself so it's kind of inspiring to see how much you fit into that 75g given the dimensions are similar albeit slightly smaller than my 120g. i would love for my tank to end up like this though....not sure i'm willing to risk it on an auratus though, lol.


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

You nailed it. Really cool that you picked up on his essential nature as a serial killer. With the exception of the Pictus catfish, that Auratus has killed more fish in the tank than any other. The Pictus only wins because he eats fry by the dozens - which i'm fine with for population control purposes. But as for the male Auratus there were 8 Auratus originally. He slowly bullied them all until they couldn't eat and then finally died. I dislike that fish quite a bit.

Interestingly the bullying didn't start until he got his adult coloration. His color changed from the generic yellow and black juvenile color pattern to almost solid black in about a week. From that point on he was a monster. The only reason he's still alive and in the tank is because I haven't been able to catch him. The rockwork is so elaborate that it makes it really hard to target and remove a fish. I'll catch him eventually.

From the original 35 fish I had to cull 3 that were just too aggressive.

- AP


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## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

ah i was curious what kind of catfish that was, it looked vaguely like a synodontis but i guess it's not. i think i saw those at my fish store in the same tank as some synodontis...

wish i could say i had some keen insight into that, but auratus have a pretty bad reputation around here...i personally had one that lived something like 7-9 years old, and quickly became the only fish in the tank. of course this was also some uneducated LFS that sold them to us with a bunch of community fish that had absolutely no chance with an adult auratus.

and yeah from what i've seen personally, as soon as an auratus turns dark black, they're monsters. I saw one the other day so bloated up from being such a pig that it looked like it was gonna keel over but it was still the most aggressive fish in the tank. a few months before i saw another one that was in a 180g tank with like 12" oscars and jack dempseys, and it was doing just fine, in fact it was picking on the jack dempsey that was like 2x it's size more than anything which was kind of ridiculous.


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

There are three Synodontis and one Pictus. I love all of them but the Synodontis are my favorites. When I bought them they were about the size of a dime. Now they are about 6 inches long and still growing.

It's unfortunate that Auratus are sold in almost every LFS you can find. I think it's because they look so nice when they are juveniles. But yeah, probably the most aggressive Mbuna available to most hobbiests. That fish WILL NOT be joining the others in the new tank. In fact if I manage to catch him he's probably going to get culled.

One thing I've noticed and I'm curious if you've seen the same thing... if I let the water get to > 79F all **** breaks loose. The males go nuts and pester the females and the females start bullying other females for territory. From what I've seen the ideal water temp is right at 76F with a range of 75-78 being ideal. The problem I'm having here in Atlanta, GA is the tap water during the summer comes out at 81F. So water changes are bitch because I have to cool the water down before I add it to the tank. Else do the water change in the middle of the night when the city water is cooler. The new tank will sport a continuous drip system that should solve this problem to a large extent. I refuse to buy a chiller.


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## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

my one LFS has some pretty much full-size synodontis, i worry they're basically too big for me to start with as many of the fish I have a feeling are gonna be in the 1.5-2" range until they grow out, and a 6"+ syno might be kind of intimidating, lol. thing is, they also have one that's like, lighter color and spotted, looks kind of like a pictus but it could also be some other syno, there's too many that look similar for me to be able to tell, haha.

and yeah, auratus are totally everywhere. i think it's because they're so hardy and impossible to kill, that many LFS will just take them as juveniles, never having to deal with the adults most of the time. and because they're so hardy and lively, people think they're healthy (which, they probably are...) and buy em up in droves, especially when they're all gold and tiny, like 1"-1.5" range, and you see them next to some tetras or some other schooling fish and they're zipping around just as quick, you figure oh okay, sure same kinda thing right? lol...and then you get a bunch of the meanest cichlids on the planet. i can't imagine how many auratus had this fate. probably too many. also, they're unusual, because i just remember by the time my changed colors, i didn't even remember it, like, it looks like a whole new fish almost. it was almost like, surprise there's a new fish in my tank and he's killing everything. haha. except it wasn't a new fish, it was that tiny little gold colored fish, all grown up

have you seen melanochromis dialeptos? they intrigue me, they're like a smaller, less aggressive version of the auratus, and the males are slightly prettier too, more of a blue hue to them instead of just black. I've never actually found a good supplier for them though, so i'm probably gonna go with maingainos instead for my "less-aggressive horizontal-striped auratus-looking fish"


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

Hi all, quick update: I've introduced what I think is best described as a hybrid binocular / stereoscopic wide-aspect aquarium view featuring two side by side Logitech c920s @ 1280x720. The mechanism isn't perfect yet due to the poor mounting equipment I'm currently using. I'm upgrading the camera mount to be much more rigid which should allow for precision camera angle and placement. I should be able to make the "seam" pretty much disappear while maintaining an overall horizontal capture resolution of ~2400 pixels.

Looks super cool. Really allows you to watch the interactions and aggressive nature of the Mbunas featured in the tank.

See it live here:
https://www.youtube.com/c/TheCichlidShow/live


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

Here's a blog post on how this view is achieved:
https://siclid.net/2016/07/27/binocular ... otography/


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## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

Heh, did you finally catch that auratus? Your whole tank seems a lot more mellow now, and I haven't seen him about.

Oh, nevermind, there he is...not nearly as active today, seems to be hanging out on the one side camera area.


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

It's more mellow because I managed to drop the daily high temperature to 78. It was hitting 80 by 5pm. It's hot here in Atlanta and I have to keep the house under 73 in order to keep the tank at 76. The heater almost never runs. I investigated this magic source of heat a while back and found that the impeller motors in the various pumps were actually adding a lot of heat. In fact if I put one of the smaller powerheads in a 5 gallon bucket and let it run for about 6 hours the temp would raise from 72 to 75/76. I've found that keeping the magnet clean reduces waste heat output but still there is enough to heat the tank without any heater assistance.

SOOO... In an effort to keep the water under 78 (and associated aggression down) I needed to turn off the power heads for a while each day. I connected the left and right powerheads to their own independent iHome wifi outlet and now have them set to run with two syncronized periods like this:

MORNING:
Right Powerhead: 7am - noon
Left Powerhead: 8am - 11:30am

AFTERNOON:
Right Powerhead: 3pm - 9pm
Left Powerhead: 4pm - 7pm

I also feel like this helps let the fish rest at night. There is ~2500Gph of total circulation in there with everything on. Cutting these two powerheads lowers it to ~1800Gph. What you can't see is that there are opposing HOT filters on each end which provide plenty of surface aggitation for oxygen. The powerheads are really just there to keep the fish moving. I find Mbunas like decent current but also need a place / time to rest - especially females that are holding.

Anyway it's been working and the fish seem much more "chill" now that it's averaging 76.5 all day.

Temp really is VERY important to a high pop Mbuna tank.


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

Also, the Auratus is still in there. He now occupies the area I think of as "The Cave". There is a cam for it. Type #CAVE or #STAYCAVE to see. As long as I'm not seeing fish turn up half dead with their fins missing I'm fine with him. I've been nursing the big bright orange zebra female back to health in the new sump for the last 3 weeks and she's finally almost ready to go back in the main tank - all thanks to that Auratus. I'm gonna do a video on that rescue effort eventually.


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## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

hmm, so you have dual powerheads in there? and you got a 75g right? Making me wonder if i will need em on my 120g....what kinda filtration you got on there anyway, canister, sump, etc? just curious what the GPH on your filter is...you said dual HOT? like the old magnum HOT things? my tank has a sump and i'm gonna have about ~1500gph from my return pump after head loss, sounds like you already have way more than that on your 75?

so would 76f actually be more ideal for mbunas then? I have my 120g set at 78f right now, though there's not actually any fish in it yet, i've been preparing things and am nearly ready to place an order once my rocks get here in the next week or so.

yeah i bet it's almost better he's claimed that little area for himself, as long as no one bugs him i bet that is one way to do it. my old auratus back in the day has this one ceramic castle decoration thing he'd always hang out in, it was like his own little castle, lol. but that tank was just not big enough to keep anything else with him regardless of that...I still like auratus even though they are kind of crazy fish. i don't think i'm gonna risk it on purpose though, i feel like I know better now, haha.


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

Hi all, I've added a bunch of technical information to the stream overlay system. I have the back end of the stream worked out such that i can push entire overlay sets very easily. In other words I can publish callouts and other bits of text to the UI/HUD much easier than I could before. So of course I put words all over everything. Too much so perhaps but if you're into this kind of deep technical aquarium stuff you might find this interesting. Or maybe suggest improvements, etc. I feel like I about have the high capacity sump thing mastered but there's always something to learn from those more wizened.

There's a whole story on a different thread about how the old 75G tank exploded, the new sump temporary home, and the upcoming 200G L-shaped mega-tank 6 months in the making...
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=394169

Stream still here (400 days and counting):
https://www.youtube.com/c/TheCichlidShow/live

Thanks to all the people, specifically LXXHero and HandyJoe that have been helping me with the new tank.


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

The new tank is done and it's amazing. Check it out here:


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## Howzit (Jul 28, 2016)

Looking good!


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## adampowers22 (Nov 19, 2015)

44 days into the new 200 gallon super-corner tank. Thought some of you guys might be interested in an update:


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