# Floating plants for Tang tank



## Cich-ness (Apr 2, 2014)

Hi Everyone, I recently noticed a drastic change in my tap water chemistry, with my nitrates jumping from >5ppm to over 20ppm. I don't have money or space to add an RO/DI system, and while I am able to keep the nitrates under 40ppm with weekly 50% water changes, the situation is far less than ideal. I currently have a group of enantiopus kilesa and a small group of Lamprologus calliurus, so the bottom of the tank is pretty well spoken for, and minimal rock work in an effort to give the enantiopus open sand to occupy. My question is, is there a floating type plant that will reduce my Nitrate levels and can tolerate a pH of 8.5+? I have literally no experience with the culture of aquatic plants, but I've heard that the typical plants like anubias or Java fern will do little to reduce nitrates, and will require in tank space as well, I am doing a lot of research, and even considering strapping bamboo or water hyacinth to the top and seeing what happens. Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

I know: fast growing plants reduce nitrates

I don't know: what plants are good for higher ph.

The anacharis I had in my tank did really well floating. They didn't have a choice fish kept uprooting them. The amazon swords I have are doing amazingly good. I have really bright lights and they are bushy as heck. I just put in the vallisneria so to soon to tell what kind of impact they have. For the past 3 months I haven't done a wc and am pleased to report nitrates are at 0 same with ammonia and nitrites.

Hope this helps.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Frogbit would probably be the best choice although there are a couple more that will also work, plants don't really give a monkeys about ph or hardness.


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

Agreed olieNZ but I've noticed that plants grow a lot better in more neutral water. I bought the anacharis and they got split between two different tanks (8.2/7.nearzero) and I've propagated the neutral water plants atleast 3 times before the alkaline plants were enough to propagate. They grow in healthy water they just grow better in neutral water.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

somebody said:


> Agreed olieNZ but I've noticed that plants grow a lot better in more neutral water. I bought the anacharis and they got split between two different tanks (8.2/7.nearzero) and I've propagated the neutral water plants atleast 3 times before the alkaline plants were enough to propagate. They grow in healthy water they just grow better in neutral water.


There's alot more involved than just ph, without quantifying all the other parameters involved for both tanks such a conclusion is misleading and may not be correct. There are a few species of plants that require softer water but these are few and far between and not very common in the hobby.

To the op buy what ever floaters you can get your hands on, duck weed is a pita though if you ever decide to rid yourself of it.


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

OllieNZ said:


> There's alot more involved than just ph, without quantifying all the other parameters involved for both tanks such a conclusion is misleading and may not be correct. There are a few species of plants that require softer water but these are few and far between and not very common in the hobby.


True but I'm not a scientist nor claim to be. But claim of my hypothesis was based upon everything available to me eg. Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph, gh, kh, lighting water supply. The only two differences was the pH of the water,a 7 inch airstone, and stocking. For sake of argument I'll agree with you on not enough controlled variables, but through my experience, with my parameters, plants tend to grow better in neutral water than alkaline, though acidic water might be just as well as neutral water, I've never had lower than 7.0 water.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

somebody said:


> True but I'm not a scientist nor claim to be. But claim of my hypothesis was based upon everything available to me eg. Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph, gh, kh, lighting water supply. The only two differences was the pH of the water,a 7 inch airstone, and stocking. For sake of argument I'll agree with you on not enough controlled variables, but through my experience, with my parameters, plants tend to grow better in neutral water than alkaline, though acidic water might be just as well as neutral water, I've never had lower than 7.0 water.


I don't like arguments but I do like robust debate :thumb: 
Unfortunately your unknowns are some of the largest influences on plant growth in a non co2, nutrient limited tank. First of all fish load provides nutrients: nitrogen and phosphate via food digestion and waste production and secondly co2 via fish respiration and beneficial bacteria respiration. So large fish load = more nutrients and co2 available for plants. Secondly is the air stone, every aquarist knows the air stone will drive off co2 and improve oxygen levels but what most fail to realise is that all they are doing is returning the dissolved gas levels in the water to close to their equilibrium with the atmosphere this includes co2. So a non co2 injected tank with an air stone will have a lower but more constant co2 level than the same tank without it. Without the air stone the same tank will have a higher level of co2 at the start of the photo period but the plants (depending on mass) can strip all the co2 from the water in less than 4hrs meaning any light after this point is not benefiting the plants as they have ran out of their most important nutrient for growth, carbon.
In an unlimited tank (think high light, high co2 and an unlimited nutrient dosing scheme) I've never seen ph mentioned as a limiting factor for plant growth (except at real extremes). If tripling the growth of your plants was as simple as having a neutral tank ph the top scapers would be all over it and it would be constantly handed down as advice to newbies.
An example of a simple piece of advice often given to newbies struggling with carpeting plants is to switch out their posh lily pipes for that ugly spay bar they detest so much and lo and behold with no other changes to anything other than how they are distributing their flow they go from killing carpet plants to throwing out handfuls of trimmings every week. 
So I suppose my point is that to assume something based on non scientific testing is that it may be correct or it may not but without the control you cant say for sure.

My computer just locked up and I didn't want to lose the response as I'm a pretty slow typer, so I just had my wife retype this and as so was doing so remarked at how blunt the reply is, so sorry if this seem rude it's not meant to be  .


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

Well how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood? Ha.

That's why I hate "debating" on the Internet. People take stuff to personal and I was afraid this was getting heated, thought not my intentions either.

As stated before by you and myself I do have a lot of unknowns in my results, for the average aquarist I think my outcome was on that level. You have obviously studied up on your plants and the knowledge you have is far superior to mine on the matter. My suggestions to the op were merely my findings, not that they are valid or invalid, just my experience.

Thanks for the schooling, you sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Till we meet again, cheers.

My hypothesis:
If my wife let's me then I will better perform a test of my theory


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## Cich-ness (Apr 2, 2014)

I actually really enjoyed the discussion, this is how education works at its best, practical knowledge contrasted with scientific fact wrapped up in a discussion. 
I am thinking that the best option for me would be to fashion a hang on "overflow box" with a small submersible pump and plant with some pothos, which I can allow to grow between the back of the tank and the glass tops, I have heard that they are not particularly demanding and grow quickly, I seem to remember that larger leafed plants are able to consume nitrogen more efficiently? Anyway, does this sound like a reasonable setup? Thanks again for the replies, it was a great read and very informative.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

somebody said:


> Well how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood? Ha.
> 
> That's why I hate "debating" on the Internet. People take stuff to personal and I was afraid this was getting heated, thought not my intentions either.
> 
> ...


I must say thank you for the compliments but alas I'm neither a scholar nor gentleman(ok well occasionally when the wife demands it :wink: ) . I am an engineer and have been a member on here http://www.ukaps.org/forum/ for a number of years and there are several truly great minds that inhabit the place, so I suppose a I've picked up a couple of things over the years. 
As for your current hypothesis, Well we all need more tanks  . If you are interested there is a book called The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium that is well recommended and also The Barr Report Newsletters. Both will cost you to read but the wealth of information available will teach you far more than a master test kit.



Cich-ness said:


> I actually really enjoyed the discussion, this is how education works at its best, practical knowledge contrasted with scientific fact wrapped up in a discussion.
> I am thinking that the best option for me would be to fashion a hang on "overflow box" with a small submersible pump and plant with some pothos, which I can allow to grow between the back of the tank and the glass tops, I have heard that they are not particularly demanding and grow quickly, I seem to remember that larger leafed plants are able to consume nitrogen more efficiently? Anyway, does this sound like a reasonable setup? Thanks again for the replies, it was a great read and very informative.


That sound like a very good idea, http://www.aka.org/UserFiles/File/debruyn_filter.pdf a modified version of this really. Also try googling riparium plants and see what that brings up you may find something other than pothos that may suit you better. Terrestrial plant are far more effective water cleaners than submerged plants mainly due to having access to atmospheric co2.


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## Cich-ness (Apr 2, 2014)

This is a quick mockup of a prototype box, pretty small, made from a staples pencil holder, it has 3 compartments, one large where I plant to put the media, which overflows in a second smaller compartment through sponges and out the bottom into the third compartment which has a small submersible pump and out the nozzle, seemed to work well in the sink. We shall see!


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## Cich-ness (Apr 2, 2014)

Check out the finished product, probably not big enough to make a huge difference, but proof of concept at least. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNLNMzOw6r ... e=youtu.be


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

Nice little setup. Keep us updated with how well it works


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