# Geophagus Tank



## RobsFishTank (Nov 11, 2014)

I've never done a Geophagus tank and need something new to get me back into the swing of things. I would like to do a group of one of the smaller species in a 55 gal. tank. I'm looking for tips and suggestions for how to set-up décor and possible tank mates. Also, any recommendations on sourcing the Geos as LFSs are dying breed and they are few and far between around here would be appreciated.


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I have a 150 with 6 Altifrons, which are a larger species. They live with 6 angelfish, about 50 cories and various BNPs. Altifrons are definitely too large for a school to be housed in a 55, so look for a different species.

Regarding tank mates, they are pretty peaceful and will mix with anything that they can't eat: angelfish, severums, festivums, cories, large bodied tetras, etc. Of course, you have to go with tank mates which will work in a 55.

Regarding sourcing, I purchased some of mine from a Florida fish farm who sells on aquabid.com.

Regarding decor, a sand substrate is a must since sifting through sand is a natural feeding behavior. If you use sand, canister filters work best. Geos spit a lot of sand around, and it will ruin the impellers of HOBs. Other than that, driftwood with anubias attached. The larger geos with uproot plants.


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## RobsFishTank (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks for sharing your experience. I haven't totally tossed the idea of having a pair of one of the larger species but I am definitely leaning towards being able to do a species group.

In your experience, how important is low pH and soft water? I'm not sure I can easily do that with my tap water having a high pH but . I don't think the it's hard but it's definitely not soft. I think I had to increase it when I was considering Africans. I'll have to retest that before proceeding.

I'm glad you mentioned plants. I'd like to have it lightly planted and am tossing around the idea of going aquaponic. In fact, that is why I changed my mind from the Africans. Didn't think the plants would like the water parameters that Africans thrive in.


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

The water at the Florida fish farms where the geos are bred is probably hard and alkaline, so I don't think it is that important. I have LEDs on my tanks and my anubias grow like weeds. I think that geos do best in small groups, especially harems, as opposed to pairs.

Please don't use gravel as it will damage their gills.


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## RobsFishTank (Nov 11, 2014)

That's why I was asking about sourcing. If the fish have been bred in similar water, there shouldn't be a problem. These will probably be the first time I buy fish on-line. I love getting small fish and growing them out. Hopefully, I'll get a good mix of male vs. female.

Can a harem of six have more than one male, say with Jurupari or something similar?

I think I'd rather go bare bottom than use gravel ever again.


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## Granamyr (Dec 16, 2015)

Geos really should be on sand as they constantly sift the sand as their natural way of searching for food. I also wouldn't put any group of geos in a 55 as it's just too small of a footprint for them long term in my opinion. If you were to try it I would only go for a geophagus parnaibae group as they stay close to only 6" supposedly. Other than that I would try something other than geos for a 55.


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## RobsFishTank (Nov 11, 2014)

Sorry, but there are a number of varieties that top out at much less than six inches.


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## Granamyr (Dec 16, 2015)

RobsFishTank said:


> Sorry, but there are a number of varieties that top out at much less than six inches.


What versions of geophagus top out at less than 6 inches? Can you share as I'd like to hear what they are so I can look for those


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

_Geophagus taeniopareius_ and _grammepareius_ are about 6 inches (15cm) and just over 4 inches (10.2cm) respectively. I've seen the first occasionally, even had a few for a very short time. The second is very rare in the hobby, and when it does show up it commands extreme prices, as it is an exceptionally beautiful species. Both of these are pure substrate spawners, no mouthbrooding. The other two "true" _Geophagus_ that tend to top out around 6 inches or a little over are _parnaibae_ and "Red Head Tapajos", and in exceptional instances both have had specimens near 8 inches (20cm).

Only _Satanoperca_ species that stays under 8 inches (20cm) is _pappaterra_, and only one population (Porto Velho) of that seems to stay at 6 inches (15cm).

The _brasiliensis_ complex may also have a couple of species that stay smaller. I have heard that _iporangensis_ and _itapacuruensis_ tend to stay smaller, but they are hard to find. This complex tends to be very aggressive species, and "do not play well with others". Pairs only, no shoals.

Of course, a lot of people think of _Biotodoma_ as close relatives, which they are. Both species stay well under 6 inches (14cm for _cupido_) and like to shoal. _Guianacara_ also like to shoal. Both of these Genera are substrate spawners with no mouthbrooding at all.

'Geophagus' _steindachneri_, the common Red Hump, generally maxes out at 6 inches (15cm) in aquaria. The other two humphead species can reach 8 inches (20cm).

When you get into _Gymnogeophagus_, all the rules are out the window. Most require some cooling for part of the year to stay healthy and to breed. Generally they are not shoalers, but are more like the _brasiliensis_ complex in their pairing and breeding behavior. Exception would be _balzanii_, which likes to be in groups, but is one of the longer species, as well as being very deep bodied. However, this is also one of the most peaceful Cichlids I have ever kept, and a nice male with a small harem would do well in a 55.

Forget about _Retroculus_. They get fairly large and require massive water movement. Mine were crowded in a 125, though they did spawn.


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## Granamyr (Dec 16, 2015)

Mr Chromedome said:


> _Geophagus taeniopareius_ and _grammepareius_ are about 6 inches (15cm) and just over 4 inches (10.2cm) respectively. I've seen the first occasionally, even had a few for a very short time. The second is very rare in the hobby, and when it does show up it commands extreme prices, as it is an exceptionally beautiful species. Both of these are pure substrate spawners, no mouthbrooding. The other two "true" _Geophagus_ that tend to top out around 6 inches or a little over are _parnaibae_ and "Red Head Tapajos", and in exceptional instances both have had specimens near 8 inches (20cm).
> 
> Only _Satanoperca_ species that stays under 8 inches (20cm) is _pappaterra_, and only one population (Porto Velho) of that seems to stay at 6 inches (15cm).
> 
> ...


Ok so the only one that I hadn't heard of from that group is the grammepareius. that is a cool looking species though.

taeniopareius apparently are very active and shouldn't be kept in tanks shorter than 5'. Never had experience with them just what I've read

Red Head Tapajos must have a couple of variations to them because I have personally seen some huge ones on different occasions wish I would have taken a picture. (at least 10" more like 12")

Biotodoma should be kept in bigger groups than what should be put into a 55.

Guianacara I think could work in a 55 but they don't do any sand sifting to speak of just digging mostly. more of an acara behavior than geophagus.

the brasiliensis complex is so wide and diverse it really needs to have some work done to identify what is what. These are going to be removed from the geophagus group though much like the hump head versions are going to be as well. I wouldn't put any of them in to a 55 though long term.

Steindachneri could work potentially still a 55 is pushing it in my opinion for them long term.

Gymnos I can't comment on I haven't done much research on them.


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## RobsFishTank (Nov 11, 2014)

Welp, it looks like I was mistaken about their being smaller geos, at least in the range that I wanted. Best laid plans...

Would a male and two females, still one of the smaller species, work?


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## Granamyr (Dec 16, 2015)

RobsFishTank said:


> Welp, it looks like I was mistaken about their being smaller geos, at least in the range that I wanted. Best laid plans...


Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus) are a nice fish and several can be put in a 55. But they don't do the sand sifting nearly as much as a true geo does.


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## RobsFishTank (Nov 11, 2014)

I like rams but am considering dwarf cichlids or possibly discus.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

I've seen pictures of _altifrons_ mislabeled as Red Heads. I've never seen real Red Heads over 6 inches. My numbers all came from Weidner's South American Eartheaters book.

As I said, I had _taeniopareius_. They were not any more active than other fish their size. I would not hesitate to put 5 in a 55 gallon tank.


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## Granamyr (Dec 16, 2015)

Mr Chromedome said:


> I've seen pictures of _altifrons_ mislabeled as Red Heads. I've never seen real Red Heads over 6 inches. My numbers all came from Weidner's South American Eartheaters book.
> 
> As I said, I had _taeniopareius_. They were not any more active than other fish their size. I would not hesitate to put 5 in a 55 gallon tank.


Maybe red heads I saw were cross bred with an altifrons I don't know. I've seen them on 2 occasions though where they were quite large. They were more orange headed though than red headed. Is there an Altifrons type that has an orange head like a RHT? I have no clue what they were labeled as, as I just looked at them and said wow those are HUGE RHT.

That's cool to hear about the Taeniopareius, Wetspot has some for sale right now and I think would be a really good tank mate for my Heckelii if they aren't any more active than the other geos.


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## karpomatic1 (Oct 4, 2017)

Don't forget Geophagus Winemilleri. I have 3 in a 125 gal.


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## Granamyr (Dec 16, 2015)

karpomatic1 said:


> Don't forget Geophagus Winemilleri. I have 3 in a 125 gal.


Those are great fish but they get much larger than 6"


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## karpomatic1 (Oct 4, 2017)

Granamyr said:


> karpomatic1 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget Geophagus Winemilleri. I have 3 in a 125 gal.
> ...


Which is why I only have 3 with 2 flagtails in a 125. I have to make sure they're well fed. One started picking off my Glowlight Tetras.


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I have 6 altifrons in a 150 gallon tank which are huge. They keep company with 6 angelfish and about 50 cories plus some BNPs. They are smart enough to not try to eat the cories. I would trust them with large bodied tetras but not any snack size tetras. Geos are pretty mellow cichlids.


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## RobsFishTank (Nov 11, 2014)

My tank is less than half that size.

How about suggesting something more appropriate to the topic at hand so as to not confuse me?


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## karpomatic1 (Oct 4, 2017)

RobsFishTank said:


> My tank is less than half that size.
> 
> How about suggesting something more appropriate to the topic at hand so as to not confuse me?


Of course, Sorry. Perhaps this will help:
http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/...ght-eartheater-for-your-tank-full-article.htm


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## RobsFishTank (Nov 11, 2014)

You both have helped me out a lot and I thank you. It seems I found some bad info the last time I was looking into Geos. As sometimes happens when researching, plans change and I won't be doing them as my main fish for this tank. I think some other small South or Central American cichlids might suit the bill.


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## Granamyr (Dec 16, 2015)

RobsFishTank said:


> You both have helped me out a lot and I thank you. It seems I found some bad info the last time I was looking into Geos. As sometimes happens when researching, plans change and I won't be doing them as my main fish for this tank. I think some other small South or Central American cichlids might suit the bill.


Good luck with what you decide to set up. Let us know what you decide to get, pictures are always fun to see


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## karpomatic1 (Oct 4, 2017)

Little sucker got another one.


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