# 150 Gallon Mbuna With Cave Grotto Background



## narhay

Hello,

I've been on this site since about 2003, but changed my username (for a less obvious name) awhile ago. I can say that everything I know about cichlids, I gleaned from this site. I've been building this aquarium for a year (some family members would say quite a bit longer). It was set up for 8 months already, but I never took any photos of it and I just recently moved. What follows is an amalgamation of photos during the build up.

I've had the fish except 2 demasoni and 1 albino taiwan reef for 5 or so years now. They've created a dynamic amongst themselves and I like seeing each fish with lots of room for itself instead of cramming in 100 mbuna.

2 M. baliodigma
4 Ps. sp. 'Deep Magunga'
3 L. caeruleus 
3 Ps. demasoni 
1 P. Spilotonus 'Albino Taiwan 
2 C. afra 'Cobue' 
2 Ancistrus sp.-144
1 Albino Ancistrus spp. L-144
And a partridge in a pear tree

150 gallon 72x18x29
2 x Aquaclear 110
Fluval FX5
2 x 200W Stealth heaters
2 x 2x39W Hagen glo T5HO (18 000K powerglo + 6700K sunglo)









Their previous home (75 gallon)









Tank arrived









Eggcrate bottom and UGJ (removed)









I thought this would be enough holes









I was wrong









Angle shot









Test piece (GE silicone I peels off, II becomes weak over time)









I got some wood for the aquarium









The pieces I kept









My rocks (and token halloween candy)









FTS









Middle









Left









Middle









Right

As you can see, my plants are still floating around, no rocks or wood in the aquarium as of yet. The plants can be placed between rocks and also into the background. I have a few planted aquariums I'm going to be pulling anubias, java fern and valisneria out of when they grow out (major prune since the move).

Hope you enjoy it. Feel free to ask questions.


----------



## chapman76

Interesting background. Looks like little houses that used to be built into the sides of cliffs by some of the Native Americans in the Southwest.

You plan on putting rockwork into the tank? It must have taken quite awhile to get all those pieces of rock glued to the background.

It's a different tank. Certainly A+ for effort.


----------



## narhay

I will be putting more rocks into the tank. I haven't yet as I need to brush them off a bit and it was getting late after setting it up with the bare essentials. That big pile of rocks (300-400lbs of limestone) with the OhHenry bar on it is going into the aquarium, as well as the wood. I found 2 big stumps that are very unique outside and I'm just floating them in my semi frozen pool to waterlog them a bit. We'll see if they fit.


----------



## narhay

opcorn: I can't count how many hours it took to glue these little rocks...


----------



## narhay

http://www.duboisi.com/diy/BNdiygrotto/bndiygrotto.htm

This is where the original idea comes from, but I put my own spin on it.


----------



## irishman

How do you attach the whole thing to the back? I think its an awesome idea. Also where did you get the rock?


----------



## narhay

I picked the rock up off the ground near a construction site. The two AC110s have little ramps that their outlets hold onto and the outlet for the FX5 is holding the other pieces. Other than that, it just sits there. It doesn't lean forward or back.


----------



## chapman76

You did quite well if that was your template. The rocks in the tank will help a lot I think.


----------



## chapman76

You did quite well if that was your template. The rocks in the tank will help a lot I think.


----------



## irishman

Thanks. Again very nice work has extreme potential for an african breeding paradise. A little extra landscaping and you will be set.


----------



## Nutty4Mbunas

Wow I'm really impressed with the beauty of it. Now I want my hubby to help me do this. You've created a monster! :drooling:


----------



## FloodXL

This concept is amazing!!!!!! Wish I had done this for my current 75 gallon and will certainly use this idea whenever I get to set up my dream 240g. Thank you for sharing! =D> =D> =D>


----------



## slimbolen99

Very cool idea! Are you going to add some rock work to the foreground? Should add to the volume of hiding spaces. Very unique and creative idea!!!


----------



## narhay

Yes I will be adding more rock...that's what the pile of rocks is for.


----------



## narhay

Nutty4Mbunas said:


> Wow I'm really impressed with the beauty of it. Now I want my hubby to help me do this. You've created a monster! :drooling:


Just be sure you have lots of extra patience and time.


----------



## narhay

Thank you for the comments


----------



## narhay

I finished up the aquarium









FTS









Left









Middle









Right


----------



## slimbolen99

TOTM?!! I'd vote for it for the ingenuity and how well it looks. Functional and sharp looking!


----------



## Robata

What a fantastic setup! Gives the fish so many options. Beautiful.
The rocks and wood really finished the look. =D>


----------



## narhay

Thank you very much  ! TOTM would be more than an honour, but there are so many other beautiful aquariums.

My favourite part of the background is that it utilizes the vertical space and only uses as much space as the rocks and gutter take up (about 2cm of depth).


----------



## Computer

That is a great set up!


----------



## Super Turtleman

That's awesome. I'm already thinking about setting this up in my 140G. I like the way the background looks...hmmm....


----------



## thevein

awesome idea, looks great, so tell us, how much activity have you seen? are the fish in and out? do they claim certain crevices?


----------



## DJRansome

How do you catch the sick or aggressive ones, LOL!


----------



## narhay

Thank you...

I see the fish out and about all the time. Sometimes they hide, sometimes they swim out in the open. I don't have many aggression issues as they all grew up together and have been relatively stable. I suppose if I have to catch a sick fish, I'll do what everyone else has to do...remove the rocks and pull out the background. That will just give me another chance to try something new.


----------



## chapman76

It looks really nice. Great job overall. I like the plants mixed in with the rocks.


----------



## FloodXL

=D> =D> =D> =D>


----------



## narhay

Thank you. I broke down today and bought 5 Ps. Acei and another Ps. Deep Magunga. We'll see how they do. I turned off the lights and I'll introduce them in a bit.


----------



## Super Turtleman

DJ, I hadn't thought about that. It'd be a pain catching fish out of there.


----------



## narhay

Haha, I doubt I will need to catch any. Once they go in, they won't come out...


----------



## narhay

Took some more photos tonight. The fish have begun to feel more at home and are out often. Might even have a video if it ever uploads:









FTS









Left angle









Right angle









Right end









Left end


----------



## knotty dreadlocks

that setup looks real good


----------



## narhay

Thanks.

Here we are. Video:


----------



## F8LBITEva

wow that looks awesome! Good job :thumb:


----------



## fish_guy_23

Yeah, nah kidding. What is the background made of?


----------



## narhay

Thank you...

The background is made of vinyl gutters with limestone siliconed to them. There is a guide on the first page of this thread if you're inclined to read it.


----------



## Dewdrop

Tank looks awesome :thumb:


----------



## LuciousLeftFoot

Impressive and TOTM worthy for sure. This is something I will be considering as a background in my future setup. Very nice work!


----------



## narhay

Thanks. If any of you want to put this in their aquariums I'd be happy to try and answer any questions.


----------



## narhay

I took a couple so-so photos of my fish.









Ps. Demasoni









Ps. sp. "Deep Magunga"









Ps. sp. "Deep Magunga"









M. Baliodigma


----------



## kevin3020

:drooling: :drooling: I can't imagine how much work that took!!! =D> =D> =D>


----------



## joker4466

i got all the stuff to try and make a background like this one.im going to try it in a 45g tall which i want to add a group of demasoni and i think they would be awesome with background like that,so many hiding spots to claim.


----------



## narhay

Just go at it...remember it will take longer than you think.


----------



## narhay

A little update:

I noticed some plant deficiencies for the past year or so in my java fern and valisneria. I have started to dose

KNO3
KH2PO4
K2SO4
Trace

In their respective relative amounts. So far I have not noticed anything being greener or the deficiencies going away, but it also hasn't gotten worse. It has only been a week, so I will keep an eye on it to see if the plants respond favourably.


----------



## Cardiff

lovely lovely tank mate, congrats on the hard work and the result


----------



## narhay

Thanks a lot. Nice to see people from all over the world here.


----------



## bbfishin

awsome looking tank! Love that background! How did you attach it to the back of the tank and where did you hide the filer intake/input?

I wish I would have seen this a few months ago when I was setting up my 46G bowfront.

All that time is now worth it... no need for tv... just pop some popcorn and watch the fish!


----------



## narhay

I didn't attach it to the back of the tank. The outlet for the FX5 is adjustable and I moved it so that it pinned it to the back, as well as the outlet ramps for the AC110s that also pin it back.

It's never too late to do it...it doesn't require any curing time, no siliconing. You could simply make it now and pop it in with the fish still in there (you might want to remove some of the sand from the back and rocks.


----------



## antisense

Very impressive mate, look fantastic!

Can I ask, the angle you used to create the background, is that plastic like in the DIY project you linked to before? or is it metal angle? If so, what type of metal?

Thanks,


----------



## narhay

Thanks a lot:

It is vinyl (PVC) gutter (eavestrough)...I got it at the hardware store. Some stores carried it, others didn't. Depends on your local supply.


----------



## antisense

Thanks buddy 

Now I just need a bigger tank... and cannister.. bigger heater.. hmmm.. maybe a second mortgage 

Antisense ^_^


----------



## marsbennett

=D> Bravo. I guess you leave any holding fish in the tank? Removing a fish would be **** in that setup I bet!


----------



## narhay

Thanks...this whole aquarium, buying everything new and including fish and plants, rocks and wood cost me less than $2000 CND, probably less since most things are cheaper in the states.

I leave holding fish in the aquarium. I routinely see little fry here and there, but as soon as they get to be 1.5 cm, they get quite confident and leave their hiding places. This is of course when the large fish get some extra protein. There are about 3 or 4 females that I can see holding at any given time. The aggression in the aquarium is minimal, but there is some minor chasing here and there.


----------



## antisense

So I have to ask...

Do all your fish use the caves? Are any of them uncomfortable claiming them as their own?

Antisense


----------



## narhay

All the fish use the caves, but some have staked them out more to themselves than others. Some of the fish prefer the rocks, and some enjoy the gutters more. But one thing is for certain, and that is that whenever I walk by the tank it doesn't matter if they like the rocks or gutters more because there is a mad dash to under the glass lids to be fed :lol:


----------



## narhay

PS: Thanks to all the well-wishers for TOTM but it appears as though a very beautiful tank won it this month.


----------



## antisense

awww **** 

I really want to give your background a go, but I have checked a few hardware stores here in Australia and no-one seems to stock anything even remotely similar to what you have used. Its either plain white guttering with a 30degree lip on one side only, or nothing at all 

Will keep my eyes out for something I could improvise with.

Antisense


----------



## rinmouse

I used pvc pipe cut in half and zip tied together. Only used it for a partial background. I also have lots of homemade caves. I can't seem to attach pics to my post though...?


----------



## narhay

The benefit of using the vinyl gutter is that for a 6' piece it was $5, compared to a piece of PVC at 3-4" in diameter is probably more and has less useable space. But if supplies are limited, it's a viable alternative.


----------



## Aramz

Very impressed mate. love the use of the plants and driftwood through cracks in the rockwork.


----------



## narhay

Thank you. I liked my planted tanks and the driftwood look, but I also like my cichlids. I decided to combine them to get a look that I liked and the fish that I enjoy. Too bad a school of cardinal tetras would be an expensive bite sized snack. :fish: :drooling:


----------



## zazz

unless i missed something ...the fact that those caves are vertical tubes with holes ..the fish may not feel comfortable to make them a home..i would have thought that some breaks/cave floors might be required at various levels to break up the flue effect.


----------



## narhay

You should tell that to my fish. They don't mind whatsoever. opcorn:


----------



## zazz

but do they make a certain hole their home and hang out there ..or do they just swim in one hole and out the other.

in fact if they do and they are happy doing that and so are you then no problem.

on my rock wall certain caves that are like two way tunnels with a backdoor never get used as lairs but the dead end ones do...which is where my labs hang out.


----------



## narhay

They hang out in all of the gutters. Some stay in one or two, some at the top of them, some at the bottom. Some have a bigger range but generally they are used just like rocks as steady homes. Of course some also just roam the tank.


----------



## zazz

i just notice that certain fish like labs like to simply rest on the cave bottom and stick their noses out and stay in that position... if you where at some stage to introduce cave floors at the foot of some of those holes at various levels then you would get some of that action as well.

when i first saw your setup my first thought was wow ..every fish will get a home...but i assumed that home had a floor and ceiling and maybe some fish thought that as well..

just saying what i thought...but of course it looks great as a backdrop..no doubt.


----------



## narhay

Hi,

A little update. I was cleaning the tank and a rock fell. So I put it back and another rock fell. Then I hit one of the pieces of wood and it tumbled a few more. Needless to say for the past 3 weeks the tank has been sitting with most of the rocks out and the wood lying on its side on the bottom. I finally got around to redoing it (4 hours later) but it is sturdier and I think more conducive for the fish.

If anyone cares to see pictures, I can take some and post them. If not, well it just saves me the effort opcorn:


----------



## Aramz

more pics plz


----------



## narhay

Similar look but more functional.


----------



## non_compliance

:drooling: :drooling: :drooling: :drooling: :drooling: :drooling: :drooling:

Great, now I"m going to have to do that for my new 75.... Only thing I didn't like about yours was I thought it was too many holes. Whole tank looks FANTASTIC though. Also, like zazz, I would make them more cavelike with floors and ceilings...

thanks for sharing the great idea. I'm sure many people enjoyed the pics as much as I have.


----------



## lcosme

What if a fish dies in one of those holes?


----------



## narhay

I'll skewer it or use a long claw...or remove some rocks. I suppose it's the same as if a fish died under a rock, you'd have to remove everything anyways.

You can do it however you like...I enjoy the way I did it and I'm sure you'll enjoy it the way you do it.


----------



## FishGraves

....amazing...

Great job!!!

I have just very recently purchased my first big tank... well big for me.  Its a 55gal that I have been looking for something special to try on it. Now I'm thinking I will try and give this a go, but maybe not the entire back wall.

I'm thinking maybe half way up the back wall like hill/caves and maybe higher on one side than the other.... just to make it a little less uniform. Yours is amazing.... but I have to do something different.. right? hahaha Any suggestions of things that aren't working, are working, things you might have changed? etc.


----------



## narhay

I wouldn't have changed a thing. I'm quite pleased with it. Just make sure you have enough room to clean the glass on the sides. My tank is 18 inches wide...with a tank like yours at 12" wide, it might take up more room than you'd like. However, it will also use the back wall and vertical area more. And you don't have to make it different...but if you have an idea, run with it.


----------



## Kevin007

Nice tank, I was wondering if it is easy to keep plants with mbunas. I planned to keep Javafern/anubias with limited lighting. What is your WPG? Do you add any ferts? Do mbunas eat them? How do you keep them in place, etc, etc

Thanks!


----------



## Maddog

very nice, 
and original idea
koodos to you!


----------



## narhay

I have and I haven't added fertilizers and noticed not much of a difference. I'm running 156 watts of T5HO lighting. The fish like to dig up things like cryptocorynes, but plants like java fern or anubias are left alone. I just pin them between rocks and eventually the plant grabs on itself.


----------



## narhay

I've had 3 sets of fry since dcember. They get to be about 1 cm long, then think they are able to venture out of the rocks. Then they are eaten.... opcorn:


----------



## narhay

A little update. All the fish are ok, growing larger day by day. I have started to feed foods with a bit more protein and my fish are all doing well. This includes bloodworms, emerald entree, mysis shrimp, brine shrimp. A lot of the fish are omnivores, so they benefit from it. Even the herbivores eat some and I haven't noticed any detrimental effects.

I added some vallisneria as well. I could take some photos later if anyone is interested.


----------



## Super Turtleman

Pics are always good. Bring them on! :thumb:


----------



## narhay

Sure, I can take some pictures later. I just cleaned out one of the AC110s as well as the Fluval FX5. The AC110 wasn't too bad, but the FX5 was absolutely filthy. It was a few months since I cleaned either. There were deposits of brown gunk absolutely everywhere. If you have any doubts as to the efficacy of this filter, doubt no more. The flow is at least twice as much as it was now.


----------



## tsmi031

I know this is an old thread ... but any new pics??


----------



## narhay

Hi,

I'm still kicking around. The lights are off, but I may be able to get some new photos at some point.
:fish:


----------



## aandfsoccr04

tank looks great. did you ever win totm?


----------



## narhay

opcorn: Nope. But I get to enjoy it everyday .


----------



## thevein

nice tank, nice fish


----------



## Ca-Delta

Looks like you spent a lot of time on it. Well worth the effort.


----------



## Leio

Hey,

Just came across this idea and I absolutely love it and will be making a wall like this for my soon to be purchased 750L tank (err bout 210gal ? ). Going to go for malawi/mbuna display tank as well. First cichlids I have kept.

Anyway I have one question. You say you didn't use silicon to stick the rock to the guttering. I looked at your instructions and the orignial version you linked (which used silicon). So what did you use to glue your rock on?

Your plants give me hope for having a good green tank with cichlids yet


----------



## gatorsaver

My wife and I love the background you did. What did you find to hold and keep all the rocks on the gutters. Do they just stand up in the tank and would you do anything differently now that it has been up a while? How is cleaning and about how much does it weigh? Thanks


----------



## narhay

Hi. Just an update on this aquarium. I moved to a new city and had to sell this aquarium. The new owner wanted to use it for a large fish habitat, and did not want the background. It has a new home in the Ottawa Landfill. The aquarium was happy and healthy for many years, countless fry and the fish have found a new, loving home.

The aquarium background weighed about 30-40 lbs. I used silicone to stick the rocks to the gutter.

At least this thread has the history of it for others to read and enjoy.


----------



## cchardwick

Yea, that was a brilliant idea. I'm thinking of taking it to the next level.... You could attach a 'rack' to the back of the aquarium and have something like 'Cichild Rocks' that would snap in, each one being it's own unit. That way if you had a fish that went in one you could just cover the hole and remove that 'cave' without disrupting everything. Something like this, only stackable and have them attach to some kind of rack in the back. I bet you could sell tons of these if you were to mass produce them:


----------



## Chunkanese

cchardwick said:


> Yea, that was a brilliant idea. I'm thinking of taking it to the next level.... You could attach a 'rack' to the back of the aquarium and have something like 'Cichild Rocks' that would snap in, each one being it's own unit. That way if you had a fish that went in one you could just cover the hole and remove that 'cave' without disrupting everything. Something like this, only stackable and have them attach to some kind of rack in the back. I bet you could sell tons of these if you were to mass produce them:


That would really work well. I would figure something similar to an eggcrate design of a rack, and a simple "L" shaped clip on the back so the rock simply just hangs.

Shame you sold the aquarium, are you still running other tanks?


----------



## Romans623

sweet set up!


----------

