# My new "Bucket Sump" filter design



## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Hello everyone. I wanted to share the new filter design that I came up with that I am in the process of ordering parts for now. Just for some background: I have a 50 gallon corner tank and due to the space constrictions in corner stands I originally built a custom acrylic sump for it that is "L" shaped. It is a three section sump with intake, K1 section, and return pump section. It came out OK for my first time working with acrylic but it is now starting to leak very slightly. Just a pinhole leak now but I have no doubt it will continue to deteriorate. So I've come up with a plan for a new sump that is basically guaranteed never to leak. FYI I do not want to switch to a canister for a couple of reasons: #1 I already drilled my tank for an overflow so that cannot be undone and #2 I do not want to put the heater inside the tank, I want it hidden. Plus I already have established K1 media and wouldn't be able to use it in a canister.

Therefore I came up with a sump design using two square 5 gallon buckets that will be connected via 2" bulkheads and PVC pipe. I am going with square buckets so the bulkheads seal better. This design will use a standing 4" PVC pipe in the first bucket so that there will still technically be 3 different sections. The bottom of the 4" intake section will be a reducing tee that will discharge into the bucket. This design will not hold as much K1 as my current sump but it shouldn't be a problem because I have more K1 than I need right now. Below is a quick sketch I did of the design, I wanted to get some feedback from everyone. The sketch shows a straight PVC connection between the buckets, in reality that connection will probably be a 90 degree elbow because it is going in my corner stand, but same design. I know similar things have been done before but I have not seen pictures of anything quite like this. The good thing about this is as long as the bulkheads are sealed properly there is no chance of it ever leaking.


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## krazyju84 (Jul 10, 2014)

for the bulkheads if sole purpose is to just connect the two, Uniseal is simple and easy.

unrelated note, im having trouble with my newest intake on the sump losing siphon after power outage. Previous intake i built kicked back in by itself... i dont know what the issue is. Could I see your design for the intake and outtakes?


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

What size of pump?
You've only got about 4 gallons of water to start the overflowing. If the pump is too big it might be sucking air before that water makes it back.
The way the heater is drawn, at least some of it would be above water, unless your pump is really small.
Only 2" pipe between the buckets might be a little risky, as I think there is some chance for the 1st bucket to over flow.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Put a piece of pond liner in the existing sump and it won't leak. One of the drawbacks of re-purposed bucket and tub assemblies is that they are short lived.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

BC in SK said:


> What size of pump?
> You've only got about 4 gallons of water to start the overflowing. If the pump is too big it might be sucking air before that water makes it back.
> The way the heater is drawn, at least some of it would be above water, unless your pump is really small.
> Only 2" pipe between the buckets might be a little risky, as I think there is some chance for the 1st bucket to over flow.


My tank is only a 50 gallon, the pump is 780 GPH which I actually throttle back a bit with a PVC gate valve that I have installed in my return piping. I already have a sump built and operating for this tank, the overflow and return lines are staying as is (1" overflow, 3/4" return), I'm only replacing the sump itself. 4 gallons is PLENTY for this pump, I know because my current return pump section is about half that size. A 2" pipe between the buckets is huge for this flowrate. I run a 1" drain line from the tank, 2" piping has nearly 4 times the flow capacity of 1" piping under gravity, its even more than that if under pressure. There is no chance of the first bucket overflowing. I'm also not sure why you would think the pump section would run dry before the water is drained back. There is no way that could happen unless you are not filling the main tank right up to the overflow line. If the main tank is full to the overflow line and both sump buckets are full, when you start pumping the main tank will start to overflow immediately. There is very little delay.



krazyju84 said:


> for the bulkheads if sole purpose is to just connect the two, Uniseal is simple and easy.
> 
> unrelated note, im having trouble with my newest intake on the sump losing siphon after power outage. Previous intake i built kicked back in by itself... i dont know what the issue is. Could I see your design for the intake and outtakes?


I'm not sure I understand your problem. Are you saying that you are using a siphon based overflow box? I don't have that problem because I drilled my tank for the overflow box, there is no siphon. The only siphon is my main drain line from the overflow box to my sump, I have a gate valve installed there to maintain that siphon. Its a two pipe system (Herbie).


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Mcdaphnia said:
 

> Put a piece of pond liner in the existing sump and it won't leak. One of the drawbacks of re-purposed bucket and tub assemblies is that they are short lived.


Why do you say they are short lived?

With the way I've designed this, as long as the bulkheads are properly tightened and sealed, this would NEVER leak. I would think any acrylic or even glass tank would be shorter lived due to the seams which will eventually leak, no matter how well made it is. A 5 gallon bucket would hold water for a hundred years without leaking.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Put a piece of pond liner in the existing sump and it won't leak. One of the drawbacks of re-purposed bucket and tub assemblies is that they are short lived.


One other thing, the pond liner wouldn't work because of the way I built my current sump. I'll post a photo later so you can see why, but trust me it won't work. The only possible way I could fix this leaking seam is to completely drain the sump and remove it from the stand, which is 100% IMPOSSIBLE. It can't be done without destroying it in the process. I knew this when I built it but took the chance anyway since I already had the acrylic cut. What happened is that the acrylic pieces were cut by hand (by scoring and snapping). Therefore the edges weren't totally straight and smooth despite my best effort to sand them. Its actually amazing that this sump lasted as long as it did without leaking.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I can picture odd shape sumps with permanent dividers that would be impractical to line without removing all the dividers first. In that case, tear it out and replace it with a lined plywood box.

I have none of the fish buckets I used in the 1970's and none from five years ago or any time between. Buckets do not last. If you use the bales (handles), they break or the bucket breaks where the bail attaches. If you don't use the bail, the bottom or the sides split. I have about 20 buckets for use in the fish room. When we moved almost four years ago, I had about 40 buckets that I used for transporting fish stuff and storing it. I discard, re-purpose, or give buckets away because they begin to break if you keep them on average more than a couple years. It is no fun having the bail fall off while carrying a bucket full of fish up the stairs or into a carpeted room. I buy a few new buckets every couple months. Until recently I possibly still had two of the 40 buckets I brought with me from the old house, and the majority of those I had just obtained anticipating the move. The bale slots broke off one. I still had the other one, but it may be a ringer for an older bucket and not as old as I assume. I gave it to another fish keeper today. I am pretty sure that gently used and kept out of the light, some buckets could last ten years maybe, but most of them won't.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Yep those buckets aren't meant to stay wet constantly, it slowly degrades the plastic over time.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

You guys might be right about the buckets but I know one thing for sure: they'll last a lot longer than my current sump did. I guess I'll find out how long they last. I can just replace the buckets in a few years if I have to, they're cheap.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Yep those buckets aren't meant to stay wet constantly, it slowly degrades the plastic over time.


This is not really correct. Most plastic does not really degrade in water. The only thing that degrades is seams, where two different pieces of plastic are joined together. I'm not sure how the buckets I bought are manufactured but I'm going to check. A bucket made out of a single piece of plastic, without seams, would hold water for thousands of years without leaking. Even one of those really thin water bottles would take centuries to start leaking (they don't have seams) assuming they aren't exposed to extreme heat or punctured.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Sorry but I'm with Mcdaphnia on this because I've had plastic buckets degrade over time and crack and break. It may work fine, it may not but it's your tank and your house not mine. I would recommend that you put 2 tubes to connect the buckets to avoid overflows. You never want to have only one way for water to go like that in case one side gets plugged etc...


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## krazyju84 (Jul 10, 2014)

Mcdaphnia said:


> One of the drawbacks of re-purposed bucket and tub assemblies is that they are short lived.


dang it. i picked up a 15 gallon heavy duty bucket from pool supply company to make a huge canister... thanks for the info, i like to avoid disasters.


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## abynum1 (Jul 30, 2017)

Do you have room to double stack the buckets? (have each one sitting inside another bucket) That way if one did crack, all of the water would leak inside the fresh, never touched, bucket until you could get there and replace the main one. You could drill holes in the two bottom buckets so the pipes from the two main buckets could fit thru (or just use shorter bottom buckets.)
At the least, it would keep the water from flooding your stand/floor. Or, if both buckets will fit, sit them both inside a rubbermaid tote. The tote should always be dry unless one of the buckets spring a leak. It should be fine to handle the water until you notice it and replace the bad bucket. None of this may fit, but it's just a thought.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

abynum1 said:


> Do you have room to double stack the buckets? (have each one sitting inside another bucket) That way if one did crack, all of the water would leak inside the fresh, never touched, bucket until you could get there and replace the main one. You could drill holes in the two bottom buckets so the pipes from the two main buckets could fit thru (or just use shorter bottom buckets.)
> At the least, it would keep the water from flooding your stand/floor. Or, if both buckets will fit, sit them both inside a rubbermaid tote. The tote should always be dry unless one of the buckets spring a leak. It should be fine to handle the water until you notice it and replace the bad bucket. None of this may fit, but it's just a thought.


If I had the space to fit a rubbermaid tote I would just use a rubbermaid tote for the sump. This system is for a 50 gallon corner tank/stand, hence why I am doing this bucket thing. Obviously what I should have done from the start is go with a canister filter and inline heater. Unfortunately its too late for that as my tank is already drilled and I already have a heater. Not to mention all my established K1 media.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Do you have shut off valves at the bulkheads? You could drain the tank temporarily and add them if you don't and run a canister filter through your bulkheads. I've seen it done plenty of times


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

If there is so little room under the tank, what about going remote? Put a Rubbermaid livestock tank in a basement under the room, a nearby utility room, garage, or closet, and connect it with plumbing from your drilled tank, using the heater and the media in the stock tank. This may not be possible if you rent. If you make holes for the pipes, drywall is easier to patch if you move away, than the floor. If you have to go to another floor level, don't drill holes in the floor. Go to a wall and then drill through the sill plate. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, have a pro do it for you.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Mcdaphnia said:


> If there is so little room under the tank, what about going remote? Put a Rubbermaid livestock tank in a basement under the room, a nearby utility room, garage, or closet, and connect it with plumbing from your drilled tank, using the heater and the media in the stock tank. This may not be possible if you rent. If you make holes for the pipes, drywall is easier to patch if you move away, than the floor. If you have to go to another floor level, don't drill holes in the floor. Go to a wall and then drill through the sill plate. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, have a pro do it for you.


If my tank was bigger I would consider doing this, but not for a 50 gallon tank. Thats a ridiculous amount of work to plumb a 10 gallon sump. Plus the head loss on my pump would be so great from having to pump the water 30 feet that I'd have to buy a pump with 3-4 times the rated capacity than I actually need. I'd rather take my chances with the buckets, if they start leaking in a few years I'll just replace them.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Why not just run a canister filter through the bulkheads instead of ghetto rigging a sump?


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Why not just run a canister filter through the bulkheads instead of ghetto rigging a sump?


 Sumps maintain a constant water level in the aquarium, and you don't need a special inline heater with a sump. But no reason other than preference to not use a bulkhead with a canister filter instead of the standard intake.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Mcdaphnia said:


> caldwelldaniel26 said:
> 
> 
> > Why not just run a canister filter through the bulkheads instead of ghetto rigging a sump?
> ...


Well yeah, I have a sump on my 180 gallon tank with all the bells and whistles, although I do have to use an ATO to maintain constant levels... The OP said that he wanted to use a canister but it was too late because the tank is already drilled, but the bulkheads can be plugged or a canister can be run through the bulkheads instead of making a sump out of buckets and trying to work out the kinks of a diy sump on an established tank.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Mcdaphnia said:
> 
> 
> > caldwelldaniel26 said:
> ...


Changing to a canister filter would require more work and more expense than what I plan to do with the buckets. Plus, as I mention in my OP, I can't use my established K1 media, which means I would have to cycle new media in a canister. All in all much more time, effort, and cost for me to change to a canister. There will be no "kinks" to work out with the buckets. All of the plumbing to and from the tank stays the same, all the equipment is the same, and all of the media is the same. Plus it will be totally built and tested before I tear out my current sump and install it, which is the other benefit to this bucket sump (I can build it outside of the stand, fill it and test it, and then put it in, which I wasn't able to do with my current sump). Literally the only concern I have in regards to leaks are the Uniseal bulkheads on each bucket, as long as they work I know there won't be any problems.

I think you would understand better if you had a 50 gallon corner tank and have had to deal with the space limitations that come with a triangular stand. It is literally impossible to use any kind of off-the-shelf sump or tank, there is nothing on the market for sumps that are large enough to filter a 50 gallon tank and small enough to fit in the footprint of the stand. The only options I have for filtration are a canister, HOB, or a CUSTOM built/DIY sump.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Why wouldn't you be able to use your k1? You could pack a canister with it instead of ceramic rings etc...


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Why wouldn't you be able to use your k1? You could pack a canister with it instead of ceramic rings etc...


It is intended as a moving bed, so to get it to move in a canister, you might have to reverse the normal direction of flow inside the canister. If it is lighter than water, you might not need to. The idea of movement is to shed material and stay bioactive and clog free.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I understand the mechanics of fluidized bed filters, as I have implemented one in my own sump and the intended usage of K1 media and all of its counterparts. For all intents and purposes, it could be used as plain old biological media in a canister filter as well. In an FX series filter, there would be plenty of space to use it as a fluidized bed. I'm just trying to save the OP the trouble of having to work out flow and return rates and unforeseen issues that arise with any diy sump project on an established tank. It's very risky and could end up causing a lot of problems.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> I understand the mechanics of fluidized bed filters, as I have implemented one in my own sump and the intended usage of K1 media and all of its counterparts. For all intents and purposes, it could be used as plain old biological media in a canister filter as well. In an FX series filter, there would be plenty of space to use it as a fluidized bed. I'm just trying to save the OP the trouble of having to work out flow and return rates and unforeseen issues that arise with any diy sump project on an established tank. It's very risky and could end up causing a lot of problems.


I'm sorry to make you feel defensive. But you posed a question and it has an answer. To someone familiar as you with fluidized bed filters, it may seem rhetorical, but for others it would be a real question and you and I are only here to help out the OP and any other readers who are considering using kitty litter or other flat buckets as a DIY cichlid tank project. I only use food safe buckets with fish or daphnia. I may use old plastic paint buckets, kitty litter buckets, and pool chemical buckets to store items, but I avoid them in contact with water that has fish in it. Non food safe buckets may be longer life than the food safe ones. I have not found satisfactory answers online. I do know my brother-in-law found some new plastic containers that were on sale but not food safe. He used them to age water for his fish tanks. The first time he did a water change with that water, he killed everything.

The OP wants to avoid spending lots of money. So a canister filter, a remote sump, or even a small pond liner in a plywood sump is out. What comes to my mind is repairing the leaking L shaped sump. Acrylic strips on the outside of the seams, or inside where they have to be, seems simple and economical to me. From the first post, though, it looks like he has written that old sump off.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Mcdaphnia said:


> caldwelldaniel26 said:
> 
> 
> > I understand the mechanics of fluidized bed filters, as I have implemented one in my own sump and the intended usage of K1 media and all of its counterparts. For all intents and purposes, it could be used as plain old biological media in a canister filter as well. In an FX series filter, there would be plenty of space to use it as a fluidized bed. I'm just trying to save the OP the trouble of having to work out flow and return rates and unforeseen issues that arise with any diy sump project on an established tank. It's very risky and could end up causing a lot of problems.
> ...


You're okay, you didn't make me feel defensive I was just trying to explain my reasoning and that I understand the proper usage of K1 media. I agree with you wholeheartedly that only food grade plastics should be used for fish related duties. I've worked for plants that produce plastics and polymers and some of the chemicals in both varieties are extremely toxic to living organisms. Food grade plastics are refined to the point of removing those trace chemicals to negligible amounts unlike their counterparts. The issue with non food grade plastics arises when water is standing in it for periods of time allowing the toxins to leach out. They also may use toxic oils or other agents to help release the item from the mold. When used to age water or as a sump the chemicals leach out in amounts that can be deadly or weaken the fishes immune system, opening them up to infection by other diseases. I also agree that the cheapest and best solution would be to sand the seams of the existing sump and glue strips of acrylic on top of them.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Why wouldn't you be able to use your k1? You could pack a canister with it instead of ceramic rings etc...


Packing a canister filter with K1, even an FX4, would not provide enough bio filtration. K1 media has nowhere near the surface area of ceramic rings. Just look at the required volumes, you need like 5 times the volume of K1 as compared to ceramic rings. It would never work and it would be a nightmare to clean, thats why they are used for moving bed. I've never ever heard of someone using K media in a canister. On the other hand I've seen plenty of people on youtube and other forums who have used plastic containers and buckets for sumps and they work just fine.

Btw I bought BRAND NEW buckets for this, I am not using paint buckets, or kitty litter, or any other used buckets. I already got the buckets in the mail.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I did a google search and a YouTube video popped up of someone using K1 in an eheim filter... You don't need as much biological media as you seem to think because even the substrate becomes a home for nitrifying bacteria. I concede though, you've already made up in your mind what you want to do and I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is...


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> I did a google search and a YouTube video popped up of someone using K1 in an eheim filter... You don't need as much biological media as you seem to think because even the substrate becomes a home for nitrifying bacteria. I concede though, you've already made up in your mind what you want to do and I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is...


The purpose was to get feedback on the design itself (the flow path, use of bulkheads, etc). Example: it was recommended in this thread that I try Uniseal instead of installing bulkheads in the buckets. I've decided to use that recommendation and ordered uniseals instead of bulkheads. That alone made this thread worth it and thanks to uniseal it will be much easier for me to build this sump and take it apart if that becomes necessary.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Awesome, hope it all works out for you. I also hope you understand that I wasn't trying to be rude or anything, just trying to give advice that was as easy and foolproof as possible. I genuinely care about the success of every member I choose to offer advice to, even if the advice I give is contrary to the original goal. Just make sure to put two overflows to the second bucket so you don't have problems with flow. I think only using one would be detrimental.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Awesome, hope it all works out for you. I also hope you understand that I wasn't trying to be rude or anything, just trying to give advice that was as easy and foolproof as possible. I genuinely care about the success of every member I choose to offer advice to, even if the advice I give is contrary to the original goal. Just make sure to put two overflows to the second bucket so you don't have problems with flow. I think only using one would be detrimental.


Yea there already is two overflows, none of that is changing. I have a Herbie setup.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I was referring to the 2" pipe connecting the two buckets. I meant to use two pipes to connect the buckets instead of just one.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Guys I actually came up with something MUCH simpler than this using only one 10 gallon garbage can (one of the Brute 10 gallon mini garbage cans). I didn't come up with it before because I didn't think one of those cans would fit in my stand, but it does. And in fact it fits better than the two 5 gallon buckets I was going to use. This design is so much simpler and is guaranteed not to leak because there are no holes in the garbage can, everything is contained inside of it. I'll draw up a sketch of the design and post it for you in a little while.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Here is a sketch of the new design. Its so simple and easy and cheap. Everything sits inside a single 10 gallon Brute garbage can so there is no need to drill any holes in the garbage can. Its a 4" PVC intake section (the same as my original design) and then the water flows back up a 2" PVC pipe section from the reducing tee, exits the top of the 2" pipe through a cone strainer and then the water mixes back into the main/open part of the garbage can where everything else resides, including the heater, return pump, air stones, and K1 media.

This design is full proof, nothing can possibly go wrong. The only thing I anticipate happening is that once the media in the 4" pipe becomes too clogged with debris that pipe will start overflowing. But it doesn't matter because its just going to overflow into the garbage can. I also need to make sure that the intake to the return pump is distributed over a large surface area (using a sponge) so that the K1 media doesn't get sucked up against the pump intake. This system can also be completely and easily disassembled because none of the PVC has to be glued since its all sitting in the garbage can. I put everything together yesterday afternoon and its getting installed this weekend.

By the way the main reason I made this change is because I found out the two bucket design would BARELY fit into my stand, and in fact there was a chance it wouldn't fit at all. I created a cardboard cutout the same size as my stand and found that the fit with the two 5 gallon buckets was so tight that I might not have been able to make it work. And of course I wouldn't have known for sure until after I tore out my existing sump. I found that one of these 10 gallon garbage cans would fit pretty easily.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

To the OP - I'm assuming your latest drawing is not to scale, as the way it is drawn there seems to be little or no room left in the 10 gallon bucket to account for water that will overflow from the tank in the event of a power failure. Without knowing the actual dimensions of your 50 gallon tank, I'm guessing, but would suspect that you'd have at least a couple of gallons of water in such a circumstance.

I'm not sure that I would have the guts to say one of my DIY designs was foolproof, either.    That just seems to be an open invitation for Murphy to make an appearance!


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

nodima said:


> To the OP - I'm assuming your latest drawing is not to scale, as the way it is drawn there seems to be little or no room left in the 10 gallon bucket to account for water that will overflow from the tank in the event of a power failure. Without knowing the actual dimensions of your 50 gallon tank, I'm guessing, but would suspect that you'd have at least a couple of gallons of water in such a circumstance.
> 
> I'm not sure that I would have the guts to say one of my DIY designs was foolproof, either.    That just seems to be an open invitation for Murphy to make an appearance!


Lol, Murphy always does seem to strike even with the best laid plans. Which is why I prefer to test unproven equipment on an empty tank. It's so risky to do otherwise. The only problem I see with the design is the tube coming up from the media chamber. That's going to really restrict water flow and end up overflowing the media chamber pretty much from the getgo, also I hate filter socks for cichlids, they get clogged up much too quickly. I'd use some stainless steel screws in the lower sides of the media chamber and drop in a piece of egg crate on top of them to keep the media held inside then cut a big slot in the side of the media chamber under the media to eliminate a restriction point. If that's not enough to get the K1 moving then get a small fountain pump from a hardware store stick it to the bottom.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

The sump is up and running, I did it yesterday. The only issue I am having is that the carbon creates too much resistance in the 4 inch pipe. With my carbon bag in there the pipe always overflows slightly. Again that isn't really an issue because it just overflows into the garbage can, but I don't want it doing that. So instead of carbon I put my Purigen in there. There is so little Purigen that it doesn't cause a backup. Other than that it works as I expected. I have to crank up the airflow to the air stones to prevent the K1 media from piling up on the pump intake but it really doesn't matter if it does. It'll still work as a bio filter no matter what.

To answer the first question about the backflow concern: I added a check valve to my return line AND I drilled an additional 1/4" hole in my return pipe right at the water line. So now there is no backflow into the sump, if the check valve were to fail the hole I drilled would stop the backflow within seconds.

Also, when I pulled my other sump out of the stand yesterday I found the whole mat underneath it was soaked. So it was a good thing I replaced it, it was only a matter of time before the stand would have gotten ruined by water. It looked like my other sump was leaking from the bottom somewhere I couldn't see.

I'll admit this garbage can setup isn't my favorite. Its easy to maintain for sure, I could easily pull the whole thing right out of the stand and clean everything. But in terms of filtration efficiency it isn't the best. As long as it keeps the fish alive and the water clear I'm fine with it but I don't think its going to do as good of a job as my previous sump.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

As I said I wasn't able to put my carbon in the intake pipe because of the back pressure so this weekend I added a small internal filter into the sump that I am using just for chemical filtration. It works really well, the water cleared up a lot overnight. Issue now is I am getting higher temperatures in my tank because of that filter. My tank is running about 8 degrees F higher than ambient (without any heating). This morning it was 80.5 F in the tank and it was only 72 F in the room. So I'm going to have to add a fan to help cool the water a little in the summer.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Are you using that standpipe coming off the media chamber?


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

I'd be leery of a pump that had that large an impact on temperature - it may be defective/flawed.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Are you using that standpipe coming off the media chamber?


I'm not sure what you mean by "using it". It is installed, yes, but only for the purpose of moving the water back up to the surface so there is some surface to bottom circulation inside the garbage can. If I removed the standpipe the water would just come straight out of the tee and go right into the pump and wouldn't get much circulation through the K1 media.

FYI this is the filter I bought to house my chemical filtration. I didn't use the media that came with it, I literally just filled it with carbon and purigen...

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/aqueon-filter-quietflow-internal

Also I added a small clamp on desk fan that I had to try and cool things off a little. It dropped temps by about 0.5F overnight, which is good enough I guess. In the winter I won't even need it.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

If you removed the standpipe and put a circulation pump in the bottom of the trash can you could house all your media in the one chamber. That standpipe is creating too much back pressure.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> If you removed the standpipe and put a circulation pump in the bottom of the trash can you could house all your media in the one chamber. That standpipe is creating too much back pressure.


Thats not a bad idea and you actually just gave me another idea. The only problem is that adding another pump in there is going to raise the temperatures even more. I might end up needing a chiller in the summer if I do that, which would be ridiculous for a 50 gallon tank. But I think I'm going to try just removing all the PVC piping and just having a garbage can with everything inside of it. The only thing I would need to buy that I don't have is something to hold my filter sock, I could probably just build something to do that. I already have a small powerhead that I could put in there.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

You probably wouldn't need the secondary filter if you removed the standpipe and put all your chemical media in the 4"


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

I did a complete change and now its a great filtration system. I got tired of the K1 media so I decided to stop using it. It just takes up too much space. I also removed the entire PVC setup from inside the garbage can (4" pipe and standpipe) and instead I am using a 2 gallon bucket inside the garbage can. The bucket is essentially a canister filter which drains into the garbage can (which now only has the return pump and heater). The bucket has filter pads, filter floss, carbon, purigen, and my biomedia, all packed in there. Instead of the K1 I am using Fluval Biomax (which I already had and is established), 500 mL of Seachem Matrix, and a brick of Marine Pure CerMedia that I just bought (which is supposed to be awesome stuff). Now that I'm not using the K1 media I no longer need the air pump or air stones anymore either so it really simplified everything. I love this setup and its quieter than any of the previous sumps I've had, its basically as quiet as a canister.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Good deal man, I'm glad you found something that works well!


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

gillmanjr said:


> I did a complete change and now its a great filtration system. I got tired of the K1 media so I decided to stop using it. It just takes up too much space. I also removed the entire PVC setup from inside the garbage can (4" pipe and standpipe) and instead I am using a 2 gallon bucket inside the garbage can. The bucket is essentially a canister filter which drains into the garbage can (which now only has the return pump and heater). The bucket has filter pads, filter floss, carbon, purigen, and my biomedia, all packed in there. Instead of the K1 I am using Fluval Biomax (which I already had and is established), 500 mL of Seachem Matrix, and a brick of Marine Pure CerMedia that I just bought (which is supposed to be awesome stuff). Now that I'm not using the K1 media I no longer need the air pump or air stones anymore either so it really simplified everything. I love this setup and its quieter than any of the previous sumps I've had, its basically as quiet as a canister.


any pics?...


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

joselepiu said:


> gillmanjr said:
> 
> 
> > I did a complete change and now its a great filtration system. I got tired of the K1 media so I decided to stop using it. It just takes up too much space. I also removed the entire PVC setup from inside the garbage can (4" pipe and standpipe) and instead I am using a 2 gallon bucket inside the garbage can. The bucket is essentially a canister filter which drains into the garbage can (which now only has the return pump and heater). The bucket has filter pads, filter floss, carbon, purigen, and my biomedia, all packed in there. Instead of the K1 I am using Fluval Biomax (which I already had and is established), 500 mL of Seachem Matrix, and a brick of Marine Pure CerMedia that I just bought (which is supposed to be awesome stuff). Now that I'm not using the K1 media I no longer need the air pump or air stones anymore either so it really simplified everything. I love this setup and its quieter than any of the previous sumps I've had, its basically as quiet as a canister.
> ...


I'll take some later and post them.


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