# How important is using tape when redoing the silicone lines?



## Solchitlins (Jul 23, 2003)

How important is using tape when redoing the silicone lines?

Can't I just eyeball it?


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## spotmonster (Nov 23, 2006)

You can, but if you tape it, your reseal job will look like it came from the factory :thumb: There's really no downside to using tape. Just remember to remove the tape as soon as you're done with the seal job before the silicone crusts over.


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## kornphlake (Feb 12, 2004)

I used a razor blade to make clean lines at the edge of the silicone bead last time I sealed a tank and it came out really clean. It seems like a razor blade gives you a little more time because it actually works better when the silicone has started to setup a little. Either way works well but neither is necessary, it just depends on how nice you want the job to look.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Do you think aquarium manufacturers tape their seams? Any reseal job I have ever seen that was done with tape, I could spot across the room. I would ask the owner, "What were you thinking of when you taped the tank?" What a waste of effort. If you don't want for some reason to use a tool (caulk devil) that removes the silicone and smoothes the new silicone, you can use razor blades to remove the old and smooth the new with the back of a spoon.

Using tape has totally down sides.

Always looks bad.

From across the room it has a triple seam look that detracts from the appearance and if you ever sell the tank, it has a totally amateur, no, totally incompetent amateur appearance that should warn away knowledgeable buyers. Has chunks of embedded tape here and there especially hard to avoid in the corners. The main working seal often looks foamy with small trapped air bubles.

Always Leaks.

Why? 1. When you tape you have to adjust your pressure and bead size to the tape instead of applying steady even pressure, so you don't always use enough pressure and silicone to fill the spaces between glass panels and you leave gaps and air bubbles. 2. The process of taping adds fingerprints on the glass in critical areas where you will silicone. Fingerprints and tape stickum provide a place where the silicone does not stick to the glass and forms a leak. 3. Leaks along bits of embedded tape which are usually right on the bottom of the tank. Best place for a leak if you want major leakage.

Now there are probably more people out there who will say they made a fine looking seal with tape that does not leak. I have seen a few of these ugly tanks that were not leaking at the time, but they all had obvious worry spots just waiting for the worst time to burst on you. Often I noticed a repair job, or second whole bead of silicone to fix a leak.

And everyone's baby is beautiful. If you want a factory look job, you can not use tape. Use tape and if your tank is your "baby", get used to the beauty marks. Tip: A bale or two of worm bedding (sporting goods stores usually have it) will help sop up leaks before they destroy flooring if judiciously placed under the tank with the top of the bale open ready to dump on the wet floor.


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## Fishfeind (Jan 16, 2007)

let me be the first to say the the last comment has many false statements.

Always leaks? The store I work at has to seal tanks all of the time and we tape them! They never leak!


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Fishfeind said:


> let me be the first to say the the last comment has many false statements.
> 
> Always leaks? The store I work at has to seal tanks all of the time and we tape them! They never leak!


Fishfiend every statement was accurate. I have yet to find one tank done with tape that looks right ... or safe. I find it hard to believe a business would reseal tanks this way. I hope they don't sell them. Every one of these botchups I've seen, when I ask, I find out they had already had a leak in their reseal job that they had to patch, and/or there are some bad spots that promise future leaks.

If you are only replacing the inner seal, and not the working seal butted between glass panels, then the old silicone seals could be keeping the water in for you. I hope that is the case.

Buy the right tool for the job. The caulk devils work. Save your tape for painting around doorknobs. I don't know who came up with the silly idea of taping inside a tank. Perhaps it was a misunderstanding of some procedure like this.

http://vagabonders-supreme.net/RV-Caulking.htm

http://www.katiebair.com/wigtutorial_makingwefts.html


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

I'd rather have the silicone blend in instead of the thick line. Those caulk devils/ caulk rite type tools work wonders.


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

could somebody post a pic of a tank with tape? Im not quite positive i know whats being talked about here.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

No pics, but here is a link to a pic of the Caulk-Rite:

http://www.starbrite.com/sproductdetail.cfm?ID=1511

There is also this gadget to easily remove the bulk of the silicone. You have to follow up with razor blades and if disassembling a tank, some fishing line to saw between the glass edges.

http://www.boatersworld.com/product/378430151.htm

If you google -- masking tape aquarium -- you will come up with a number of articles explaining how to tape alongside the silicone beads, but none I saw had pictures.


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## Solchitlins (Jul 23, 2003)

This is what I'm talking about:

http://aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_a ... hp?aid=107

I did my tank today and I'm really disapointed with the results.



I didn't tape it.

I have never worked a calk gun before and I couldn't get the flow right at all.
None would come out and then gush, splat!

I'm really bummed looks like a 3rd grader did it.

I'm going to wait a few days and try to clean it up a bit by cutting off excess if possible but think I will probally have to strip it all off and do it over again.

Sucks.
I feel like I can't do anything right these days.


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

Ahh gotchya, thanks for the link. This is exactly what i was picturing and how i would do it. I thought i may have had it wrong because i dont know why people would think this could be a bad thing. I dont see how it could look bad as long as the tape is removed. i think it would be a great way to make clean lines.

Dont worry if you gotta redo the tank, its all good. We all make mistakes and fixing them is how we learn.

I am going to be trying my first reseal pretty soon and i expect to redo it.


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

For removal I just use razor blades. For smoothing out the bead I use several clean plastic spoons. Never used tape, never will.

Just my 0.0Â½Â¢ opcorn: 
D


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

D-007 said:


> For removal I just use razor blades. For smoothing out the bead I use several clean plastic spoons. Never used tape, never will.
> 
> Just my 0.0Â½Â¢ opcorn:
> D


 Amen! And that Aquamaniacs article has so many wrong steers... I will point out the good in it. It emphasises wearing gloves. Gloves do keep your hands clean, but the important tihng is they keep the glass free of the oils produced by human skin.


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## trigger (Sep 6, 2002)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Fishfiend every statement was accurate.


Yes, from your point of view. Fortunately it's all opinions and no facts.

I've seen good looking tanks and bad looking tanks made with different methods. It all comes down on the skill of the person that is doing the job. If you can't handle the tools, no matter how good they are, you'll end up with a mess. If tape works for you, than why not use it?


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

I recently resealed a 135, and used tape on part of it, but didn't have enough to do all of it. I despise the seams that I taped, and the seams that I did freehand look much, much better. The tape edges just didn't work out right.

My vote is not to use tape.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Solchitlins said:


> This is what I'm talking about:
> 
> http://aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_a ... hp?aid=107
> 
> ...


You can blame it on the caulk gun and buy a different one. They do vary in quality and there are different styles that "fit" different people. Also the silicone has a shelf life and an older tube will have the kind of problem you describe because some of the silicone has begun to harden in the tube. You can also get some cheap caulk and practice running beads inside a cardboard box. It does take practice to do it right. I do think that may be what the tape is about, someone thinking a gimmick can substitute for practicing until you know what you are doing. A caulking gun is no piano, but the better (more practiced) the user, the better either one will perform.


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## R-DUB (Jun 3, 2007)

I have never had to reseal a tank before. With that said; I have used a caulk gun for more hours than I care to remember. I have literally ran miles and miles of caulk in my career as a carpenter. Silicone, latex, polyurethane, acrylic etc... It does take some practice. I takes some steady pressure on the trigger and a free uninterrupted "pass" for each joint. Practicing in a cardboard box is a great idea. Some "smoothing" tools can also make a mess just like a bad caulk joint. Taping will leave a very slight "ridge" when the tape is removed. This will allow for a place for water to work under the joint. The time spent taping could be spent on practicing for a better joint. IMHO. Also cutting the tip of the caulk gun at a slight angle helps "lay" a better and smoother seam. Don't cut a huge tip. Cut it slightly smaller than the joint you want. When it is "smoothed" over it will widen slightly. Working "clean" also is a big advantage. If you have globs of caulk on your fingers,tip of gun,smoothing tools etc.. it is only going to make a job harder and more frustrating. Hope some of these tips help----GOOD LUCK !
:thumb: :thumb:


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

trigger said:


> Mcdaphnia said:
> 
> 
> > Fishfiend every statement was accurate.
> ...


 All opinions and no facts! Read back. I was reporting what I have observed. Besides years of keeping fish and DIY projects, I have a family background in the construction trades and learned to caulk a window when my age was still a single digit. I may have a more discerning eye on what is a good caulk seam, but it is not opinion.

As to why not using tape if it works for you, there is the slight catch that it does not work. If you don't have the experience to lay a good seam, you should practice with some cheap caulk in a cardboard box. The skill of the DIY'er is important, but the wrong tools or wrong methods can jinx even the most skillful.


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

i'm completely shocked that anyone would be so up in arms about using tape. The only point, and i believe there is only ONE POINT to it, and it's that a slight ridge can be left where the silicone meets the tape. Well the same is true for a razor blade. If you blade off the edge, you get a ridge too.

There's absolutely no reason a person couldn't lay tape down a inch from the seam, lay a bead and then smooth it over with a spoon and pull the tape up, minimizing the ridge, making the bead perfectly uniform and having a perfectly straight minimalistic overlapping portion of silicone. No reason at all.

Any point to counter that statement is probably being made in bias and judgment. It's just some tape and a resulting straight line. It's not like trying to underbuild an oversized monster tank, or use finishing nails to hold together a plywood tank. It's really just someone ranting due to an elitist personality.

Not pointing fingers or anything. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, and this is one opinion i believe truly has no wrong answer. If you wanna use tape, go head. Still might not look as pretty as you hope, and you should still learn how to lay that perfect bead. But the tank isn't going to explode or turn evil and attack kittens. Its just some tape.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Tape is not needed. A blade can cut just as clean.

I went out and got a cheap striking tool for brick laying to strike my beads when making my Terrariums instead of a spoon.

Also, most other projects outside of the aquarium ones from what I have experience with call for you to just lay a bead and not even smooth it.

Of course you would for a aquarium do to looks but it just gives something to think about for those that argue.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

loogielv said:


> i'm completely shocked that anyone would be so up in arms about using tape. The only point, and i believe there is only ONE POINT to it, and it's that a slight ridge can be left where the silicone meets the tape. Well the same is true for a razor blade. If you blade off the edge, you get a ridge too.
> 
> There's absolutely no reason a person couldn't lay tape down a inch from the seam, lay a bead and then smooth it over with a spoon and pull the tape up, minimizing the ridge, making the bead perfectly uniform and having a perfectly straight minimalistic overlapping portion of silicone. No reason at all.
> 
> ...


Loogielv is right that there is only one point of real importance, but it is not ridges, it is keeping water in the tank. When you build or rebuild an aquarium, the one thing you should concentrate on is pushing a steady bead of silicone into the joint so that all air bubbles are forced through and there is a perfect joint when you look through the edge from one piece of glass to the touching one. In the early all glass aquariums, there was no inner fillit seal. Any overflow was cleaned off. Leaving the fillit in was a labor saving move more than a backup seal. Until recently when I sold it, I had a 1962 Bader tank built that way with no inner fillets at all and the seals all still looked perfect, and it held water for over 40 years with no inner fillit seal. Does that mean that the inner fillit is of no importance? Not exactly. It is an artifact of creating the working seal between the glass, so anything that detracts the artisan's attention from creating that working seal is bad. Using tape encourages you to look at the two tape edges so that you don't bury the tape or run short of it. That distraction ups the odds of leaving air bubbles and incompletely filled areas in the working seal.

As to a razor blade leaving a ridge, it should not. When the bead is smoothed, whether with a special tool, the back of a spoon, or a gloved finger, there are contact points on both sides of the bead where all the silicone is feathered out to nothing, while beyond that excess silicone may be pushed aside. If you remove the excess up to the contact points, you have a feathered bead with no ridges. You would have to cut into the bead itself to create a ridge.

There is something surreal about calling those who work with their hands and have experience as "elitist", and sharing what they have learned and seen is "ranting". The medium we are using gives equal weight to those who have never carried the subject beyond a thought problem, and those who have. That is why you should use what you learn here as ideas and then do your research to evaluate those ideas. Still, you won't convince me that the guy in the ditch with muddy boots and a shovel is an elitist and the fellow prancing by with his nose in the air is Joe Everyday.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

You know, being a person that uses his hands on other apps I have to agree with some of this if not all.

When using your finger or a tool you get a very nice smooth joint then on the outer most reaches is the clumps if done these ways. And to be real, with a blade you cut that off on the more thinner part of the seal exceeding the joint before you get to the clumps if you catch my drift.


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Loogielv is right that there is only one point of real importance, but it is not ridges, it is keeping water in the tank. When you build or rebuild an aquarium, the one thing you should concentrate on is pushing a steady bead of silicone into the joint so that all air bubbles are forced through and there is a perfect joint when you look through the edge from one piece of glass to the touching one. In the early all glass aquariums, there was no inner fillit seal. Any overflow was cleaned off. Leaving the fillit in was a labor saving move more than a backup seal. Until recently when I sold it, I had a 1962 Bader tank built that way with no inner fillets at all and the seals all still looked perfect, and it held water for over 40 years with no inner fillit seal. Does that mean that the inner fillit is of no importance? Not exactly. It is an artifact of creating the working seal between the glass, so anything that detracts the artisan's attention from creating that working seal is bad. Using tape encourages you to look at the two tape edges so that you don't bury the tape or run short of it. That distraction ups the odds of leaving air bubbles and incompletely filled areas in the working seal.
> 
> As to a razor blade leaving a ridge, it should not. When the bead is smoothed, whether with a special tool, the back of a spoon, or a gloved finger, there are contact points on both sides of the bead where all the silicone is feathered out to nothing, while beyond that excess silicone may be pushed aside. If you remove the excess up to the contact points, you have a feathered bead with no ridges. You would have to cut into the bead itself to create a ridge.
> 
> There is something surreal about calling those who work with their hands and have experience as "elitist", and sharing what they have learned and seen is "ranting". The medium we are using gives equal weight to those who have never carried the subject beyond a thought problem, and those who have. That is why you should use what you learn here as ideas and then do your research to evaluate those ideas. Still, you won't convince me that the guy in the ditch with muddy boots and a shovel is an elitist and the fellow prancing by with his nose in the air is Joe Everyday.


so you're saying the tape is bad because someone will just throw the silicone on there and not push it down into the joint? the tape is bad because the person using the tape isn't smart enough to do the silicone properly and is instead distracted by the pretty straight edge? so i guess if we get a genius to utilize the tape/push method your point would be moot?

As far as muddling my statement to pretend to assume I meant everyone who works with their hands and has experience is an elitist, is an attempt to sidestep the point.. 
My statement was directed completely to those that believe their way is the only way and everyone who does it differently is basically mentally challenged. A person with expertise would say "I wouldn't do it. I dont trust it. I've seen some leak". An elitist with no real world proof screams "THEY ALL LEAK! ALL OF EM! OMG RUN" etc etc.

I'll use your very own "guy in the ditch with muddy boots" analogy. If that guy dug his ditch with a pick-axe and screamed at everyone who walked by that the only way to dig a ditch was with a pick-axe and he's been digging ditches better than everyone for 40 years and everyone who uses a shovel makes a ditch that looks like [email protected] and will always, ALWAYS ALWAYS overflow, or fail, or seep into the ground, then yah. Mr. Muddy Boots is an elitist. And honestly, a jerk. And if after all that ranting and raving, screaming and yelling, he says at the end "you should use what you learn here as ideas and then do your research to evaluate those ideas" it really doesn't change that fact.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

What ever happened to just running a nice beed and using your finger? Pretty easy to get a nice seal this way.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

loogielv said:


> Mcdaphnia said:
> 
> 
> > Loogielv is right that there is only one point of real importance, but it is not ridges, it is keeping water in the tank. When you build or rebuild an aquarium, the one thing you should concentrate on is pushing a steady bead of silicone into the joint so that all air bubbles are forced through and there is a perfect joint when you look through the edge from one piece of glass to the touching one. In the early all glass aquariums, there was no inner fillit seal. Any overflow was cleaned off. Leaving the fillit in was a labor saving move more than a backup seal. Until recently when I sold it, I had a 1962 Bader tank built that way with no inner fillets at all and the seals all still looked perfect, and it held water for over 40 years with no inner fillit seal. Does that mean that the inner fillit is of no importance? Not exactly. It is an artifact of creating the working seal between the glass, so anything that detracts the artisan's attention from creating that working seal is bad. Using tape encourages you to look at the two tape edges so that you don't bury the tape or run short of it. That distraction ups the odds of leaving air bubbles and incompletely filled areas in the working seal.
> ...


I think you just abused my analogy. opcorn: My guy is the one with the shovel. You have the pick ax. :dancing: And you have all the the all-caps yelling. Some people are doers and some are thinkers. The doers have a bit of an edge in DIY, but the thinkers add some new ideas that sometimes work out, and sometimes once in a blue moon totally change how things are done. However you are not a thinker or a doer. You are an arguer. And a name-caller for no discernable reason. All can go on are the tanks I've seen, and even the ones that the owners once said turned out OK, when I got to see them, they had already changed their mind. Tape is not a new frontier or an innovation. It simply has more negatives than positives. I think there is nothing elitist or jerk-like if that guy in the ditch finally after signs and barriers and lights have failed, shouts to an inattentive pedestrian, "Hey! There's a ditch here. Don't fall in!"


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

thats' funny, because your guy - you know? the one with the shovel? - said the following:



> Do you think aquarium manufacturers tape their seams? Any reseal job I have ever seen that was done with tape, I could spot across the room. I would ask the owner, "What were you thinking of when you taped the tank?" What a waste of effort. If you don't want for some reason to use a tool (caulk devil) that removes the silicone and smoothes the new silicone, you can use razor blades to remove the old and smooth the new with the back of a spoon.
> 
> Using tape has totally down sides.
> 
> ...


and



> every statement was accurate. I have yet to find one tank done with tape that looks right ... or safe. I find it hard to believe a business would reseal tanks this way. I hope they don't sell them. Every one of these botchups I've seen, when I ask, I find out they had already had a leak in their reseal job that they had to patch, and/or there are some bad spots that promise future leaks.
> 
> If you are only replacing the inner seal, and not the working seal butted between glass panels, then the old silicone seals could be keeping the water in for you. I hope that is the case.
> 
> ...


I certainly did not call anyone names. if you automatically deduce that i'm calling YOU and elitist, and saying you are a jerk, then you're pretty defensive. All i said is someone who yells and screams and refuses to hear other people is an elitist, and if he bashes others for doing different, he's also a jerk. you put those together yourself that they were an attack against you. I was just sayin...


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

loogielv said:


> . All i said is someone who yells and screams and refuses to hear other people is an elitist, and if he bashes others for doing different, he's also a jerk. you put those together yourself that they were an attack against you. I was just sayin...


 Wow, quite a confession. 11 more steps.... I think I put together pretty easily that anyone who does not like the results from taping silicone seams is going to be bashed by you. You yell scream and refuse to listen to them. I've built tanks, repaired tanks, and repaired other peoples' tank repairs. That is as real world as it can get. I've been conditioned by the real world to associate bits of masking tape embedded in silicone seams with leaking tanks, because that is when I see them.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

My god, it's just Silly cone opcorn: You can do it right either way, one will look better than the other, a high ridge may or may not leak, if sealed right, probably not. but it is noticeable. as long as the actual joints are selaed then it will be alright. But if done right to begin with, you don't need tape or razors or milling machines.


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

Mcdaphnia said:


> loogielv said:
> 
> 
> > . All i said is someone who yells and screams and refuses to hear other people is an elitist, and if he bashes others for doing different, he's also a jerk. you put those together yourself that they were an attack against you. I was just sayin...
> ...


after this, i suppose i'll be done with this thread, since you're obviously unwilling to even pretend to try to listen.

I never said i wouldn't listen to someone saying taping is not as good as not taping. I said the person screaming they all leak (which i can't help but laugh as i type this, because it's just that...laughable) is an elitist with no real world proof. Just "what he knows" is true. You go put your hand on a loved one and swear before them that you truly believe all tanks that are taped when siliconed will leak. You go head. I'll wait.

Actually, no i wont.

so here's my true 12th step: I dont use tape. Never have. So now your point is REALLY moot... not that it wasn't before...


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

loogielv said:


> ....so here's my true 12th step: I dont use tape. Never have. So now your point is REALLY moot... not that it wasn't before...


 I was getting more and more sure you had no experience in this matter and you were just posting to argue. Thanks for finally being honest. :thumb:


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## loogielv (Nov 10, 2008)

Mcdaphnia said:


> loogielv said:
> 
> 
> > ....so here's my true 12th step: I dont use tape. Never have. So now your point is REALLY moot... not that it wasn't before...
> ...


lol. :lol: good come back. You win that round, i'll give you that :thumb:


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