# 40 gallont tank just set up. Have no clue what Im doing



## quartermilecamel (Jan 17, 2009)

Hello, *** had my55 gallon tank for 5 years now with powered blue cichlids, 1 electric yellow, which doesnt look so hot colorwise. Everyone in that tank seems happy. Now the 40 gallon I just put into operation. It has 3 electric blue males 3 to 4 inches long and 1 electric yellow. I have no sand or gravel in it yet. I have purchased black sand to use. The filter Im using is a sponge filter. The tank has been going for a week now with 1 electric blue and the electric yellow. Today I added 2 more electric blues from the same tank at the pet store. Right now they are having fish races all around the tank. Will this settle down? Do I need more stuff in it? Im not quick by any means at figuring this stuff out. Searching on this site confuses me even more as to what to set up the tank like.
When I first put in the other 2 blues, they fought for a while (like holding onto each others jaws in a biting contest. Now we just have fish races. I have an 6 inch plastic pipe tee and a 4 inch pipe tee tossed in there, nothing else. but a plant and a funky bright yellow pink green red ornament with holes in it. Basically the top half of the tank is bare. I did manage to guess that according to the fish temps it should be 78 to 84 degrees?


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## overleaf (Jan 18, 2009)

You'll want to add substrate, lots of rocks in formation that provide lots of hiding areas. The hiding areas/rocks will provide territorial boundaries along with escape routes/hiding spots. This will decrease the aggression in your tank.

I keep my tank at 78.


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## quartermilecamel (Jan 17, 2009)

ok so my screwup #1 is I kept it at 70 to 72 before. Making custom heaters now. I have no idea what a substrait is.....gonna try to find out.


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Welcome to C-F!!!
"Substrate" is either sand of gravel on the bottom of your tank. Like *overlea*f said, Add a BUNCH of rocks, stacked so they make places for the fish to hide. Or even a bunch more pipe fittings in all kind of sizes, seen it done before and it looked really cool.
Oh, and I keep my tanks at 80 degrees


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## cevvin (May 2, 2008)

Mbuna live in rocky areas, they like hiding spots. And they LOVE sand. Is this tank cycled?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the 40G tank? And what type of fish is an "electric blue"? Is it a Fryeri?

Agree with the others on the rocks, but a 40G tank might be too small if it is less than 48" long.


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## quartermilecamel (Jan 17, 2009)

yes its 36 inches long. I paid 24 bucks per 3 and 1/2 inch fish times 3. 3 of the blue ones. 1 of the yellow ones. Is it cycled? Um........I just started the tank. I used 20 gallons of water from the 55 gallon tank to start this one. I thought you just started up a tank and let it rip. I guess I dont fully understand cycling. Am I suppose to "cycle" a newly fresh tank


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't think your tank is big enough for Fryeri. And yes, you need to cycle it for 6-8 weeks with plain ammonia (no fish) or add live bacteria like Dr. Tim's One and Only if you are going to keep the fish in there.


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## overleaf (Jan 18, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> I don't think your tank is big enough for Fryeri. And yes, you need to cycle it for 6-8 weeks with plain ammonia (no fish) or add live bacteria like Dr. Tim's One and Only if you are going to keep the fish in there.


That's only if you're doing a fishless cycle.

I'm performing two stocked cycles right now, so far so good. I've done 5 water cycles within 4 days on both combined. You need to be super diligent to perform stocked cycles otherwise all your fish are gonna die.


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## quartermilecamel (Jan 17, 2009)

I have no idea what fryeri are or is. *** had fish off and on for years, and Im dumber than fish waste. However, I do have a custom made heater in the works. Using a house wall digitial thermostat, wall light switch and a heater with bypassed thermostat switch. Now I can set my temp digitially, and the thermostat will never fail. I took the thermistor out of the unit and stuck it inside air tubing and put it inside the tank. So now I have the temperature of my tank with precision, accuracy, and adjustability, with out guessing or waiting. *** been wanting to do this for years, as I have sooo hated the poorly made units designed to fail so you will purchase another heater every year.. Right now my tank is 79 degrees. Next phase is integration of the heater element.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Sciaenochromis fryeri is the scientific name for electric blue. Or one of them. The fish is a hap from Lake Malawi and adult size is 7". It is too big for a 36" tank.

If you are going to keep that tank, I would put only a small number of labs (3?) and another group of dwarf mbuna in it.

Since any amount of ammonia or nitrite causes permanent damage to fish, many fishkeepers today would recommend against doing a cycle with fish, and prefer a fishless cycle, Dr. Tim's, or obtaining bacteria from an established tank via filter, filter material and/or substrate.


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## quartermilecamel (Jan 17, 2009)

ok so I need a bigger tank for these, how much bigger? How long can I keep these in this tank? Right now I added plants and rocks. The aggression is down to almost zero now. And thanks for the real name of this fish. Oh I get it now. Stocked cycling is so the bacteria can build up to normal levels and requires more frequent water changes till the bacteria is up to snuff. Well I just got my python drain and fill from the LFS, so water changes should be a lot easier. I'll start looking for a bigger tank when I know what size to get. *** heard some say 1 inch of fish per gallon of water but if this tank is too small then Im missing something. 7 inches times 3 is 21. Maybe the aggression factor?


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

What kind of filter do you have on the 55? Is there anyway you can use the used filter media from that tank and plop it into the 40g? It will speed up your cycle!

As for being dumber than fish water - no way I could rig up a heater like that...

And cichlids need more territory than other fish, it's why the 1" per gallon doesn't hold true for them - I believe that is mainly for the bioload (the ammonia fish create vs your good bacteria) capabilities. Even that isn't 100% - you can push that number with extra filtration and water flow.


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## quartermilecamel (Jan 17, 2009)

interesting!! Yes I did start this tank with 20 gallons of the 55 gallon tanks water. The filter is new sponge one. Yeah I should do another water change tonight.
As for the heater, I do stuff like that all the time. 2 year degree in electronics, major mechanical skills, and I love making stuff myself exactly the way I want it, and or modifying something to suit me. Fish heaters were made to take a dump so you will buy another one. When was the last time you had to replace your wall thermostat because it heated your house to +90 degrees. 
What fascinates me is every store around me except 1 will tell me 1 gallon per inch and they even sell cichlids. So Im gonna guess that 1.5 or even 2 gallons per cichlid inch...gci?
I think I may have found a 75 gallon tank near me but dunno how much they will take for it. The LFS sells one for 160 tank alone.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Water doesn't have much of the bacteria you really want in it - the filter media does. That gunky junk has tons of good stuff in it and that is what you need in your new tank.

You can't go by inch for cichlids, at all. I have a mated pair of Jack Dempsey's in a 55 gallon - a total of 15" fish and they *should* live in there alone - except perhaps for an algae eater. By the inch standard, I should be able to keep them in a 15 gallon tank - and they would be miserable.

The inch standard is fine for "community fish" but not for territorial fish. I've found that many of the *cough* kids working in a lfs - especially big box stores - know little to nothing about keeping fish. It boils my blood to see some mom or dad getting a brand new tank for jr. and choosing out fish at the same time. Chances are, the fish will die and the kid will bawl his/her eyes out. (Been there, done that - real hard to explain to a 3yr old why her fish died and why I learned all I could about fish) I've talked several people out of buying the fish before they have had time to cycle the tank - my hubby thinks I'm nuts and going to tick someone off one day, he probably right, on both counts! lol


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## overleaf (Jan 18, 2009)

quartermilecamel said:


> Oh I get it now. Stocked cycling is so the bacteria can build up to normal levels and requires more frequent water changes till the bacteria is up to snuff. Well I just got my python drain and fill from the LFS, so water changes should be a lot easier.


The difference between stocked and fishless cycling is really simple, stocked contains fish, fishless... well, is fishless!

Both methods accomplish the same thing.

Stocked: Ammonia is generated by your fish waste and decaying food. That ammonia is converted by the bacteria into a less toxic form called nitrites. The Nitrites are still toxic to fish. From nitrite form a different kind of bacteria (Nitrobacter) converts the nitrite to nitrates which the fish can handle pretty well. This process takes a while to develop and you're fish are at risk until it does.

Nitrates need to be removed from the tank as well by the bacteria named... well, you. You perform water changes to remove the nitrates.

Fishless cycling is identical to the above process except you add the pure ammonia yourself and is much safer since PH > 7 means very small concentrations of ammonia are toxic.


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## quartermilecamel (Jan 17, 2009)

very helpful imformation. I called a glass store and a quarter inch glass 48 by 21 is 26 dollars. Im also contemplating making my own aquarium. Or I could just silicone all the walls top to bottom of one room in my house.


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## overleaf (Jan 18, 2009)

Careful, cichlids need a large tank with lots of hiding places. I doubt your house will be suitable!

I literally lauged out loud while reading that, thanks!


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

quartermilecamel said:


> Im also contemplating making my own aquarium. *Or I could just silicone all the walls top to bottom of one room in my house*.


*raises eyebrow* you gonna put the filter in the basement?? You should post that project in the DIY section... sounds like a great plan! You know... you could use the existing plumbing to run water lines...think you'll need to shore up the floor boards for the extra weight...

LOL

Thank you for the chuckle, needed it this early in the morning.


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Above all do not get to hard on yourself. You are going through very common mistakes that noobies make. Others sound so much more knowledgable from their own expeiances... good and bad!


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Hoosier Tank said:


> Above all do not get to hard on yourself. You are going through very common mistakes that noobies make. Others sound so much more knowledgable from their own expeiances... good and bad!


Yup! My biggest newbie mistake was needle fish... very cool looking fish but they get far too large for even a 55 gallon.


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## quartermilecamel (Jan 17, 2009)

ok still searching for a larger tank. I have just purchased wardleys cichlid food from walmart. It has fish meal, wheat flour, wheat flour, soy flour, soy protien concentrate, corn gluten meal, wheat germ meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, fish oil, salt, bewers dried yeast, algae, betaine, shrimp meal. Is this good for them or not? I thought cichlids were vegetarians or at least these were.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I feed New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula. Wardleys sounds like it has too much flour.


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## quartermilecamel (Jan 17, 2009)

yeah thats what I was thinking too...four this flour that 5 bucks from wal mart.......that and also........this doesnt seem to be a vegetarian or herbavore food. well I need to know if new life cichlid will be fine to feed the fryeri, labs and what ever is in the 55


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes you can feed it to all your fish. May have to get it online though...I usually do.


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Wal-mart also carries the bags of Hikari brand of fish food. The "Gold" is a decent food for both.


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