# My red devil has ick



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

My 15 inch rd hasn't eaten in a week and this morning I noticed white spots all over his body. I'm pretty good with water changes. A few weeks ago I did put a few feeder goldfish in there and that's how I'm thinking it got ick. I won't be doing that again.

Bought Jungle Ick Guard today and added 8 teaspoons to the 75 g tank (1 teaspoon/10 gallons). I don't use carbon. My questions are:

1. How many days should I treat the tank with Ick Guard?

2. Should I remove the foam insert and biomax insert from the aquaclear 110 filter box?


----------



## Boston_Guapote (Jun 2, 2003)

You don't need to use chemicals. Bump up your water temp to 82 degrees and make sure to aerate the water well. This has always worked for me.


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

This article should tell you all you need to know... and then some! http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php


----------



## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

good article! high temp is all you need. but as a procaustion i always add salt lol. i believe its between 85-88f and not to exceed 1f per hour when you raise it


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

I already started the medicine route so I think I should probably stick with that. Checked this morning and the rd isn't looking too good. He's at the surface and moving only one side fin. Looks weak. Still won't eat. Still has white spots. Hope I don't lose it.

When I put the medicine in yesterday early evening, the water turned into a blue tint, which I figured was probably good so the medicine can work. But a little while later the water was crystal clear. I'm wondering if the foam insert on aquaclear filter filtered out meds even though there's no carbon.

Plan on using meds for at least three days and changing 25% water before re-applying meds. But I'm also wondering if I should remove the foam and bio inserts to re-assure that it's not filtering out the meds.


----------



## Boston_Guapote (Jun 2, 2003)

You should listen our advice and stop medicating, then raise your temp.


----------



## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

If You want to keep medicating don't take your Bio out. Only thing That filtered meds is carbon. Add more airation. From your description it sounds like the rd is suffocating


----------



## Tiktaalik Owner (Aug 17, 2009)

Goldfish are the worst thing your RD can eat. It's a coldwater fish and would never occur in any cichlid's natural diet. They contain thiaminase, which destroys vitamin B1. Using feeders from a fish store is Russian roulette. Ich is the lesser of many evils your fish could catch.

If the meds don't work, the temp you want is 87 for two weeks. Anything below 86 just speeds up the life cycle. Extra aeration is important when you raise it.


----------



## Boston_Guapote (Jun 2, 2003)

Tiktaalik Owner said:


> Goldfish are the worst thing your RD can eat. It's a coldwater fish and would never occur in any cichlid's natural diet. They contain thiaminase, which destroys vitamin B1. Using feeders from a fish store is Russian roulette. Ich is the lesser of many evils your fish could catch.
> 
> If the meds don't work, the temp you want is 87 for two weeks. Anything below 86 just speeds up the life cycle. Extra aeration is important when you raise it.


Good post!


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

Not looking good. Did med treatments on tues, wed, tr. Ick appears to be gone. But fish looks like it's hanging on for dear life. Won't eat, Didn't eat for about a week before it came down with ick. Sluggish, tilted to one side at the surface. Wondering if there's something else going on like some other disease. Had this fish for 4 or 5 years now. Could it be from age? What else can I do?


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

Should I raise temp while medication is already in there for three days?


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

The article says not to raise temp and medicate at the same time cause both deplete oxygen levels. Also, I don't think I have any salt. Would it be possible to do a large water change to get meds out and then try the heat/salt method? If so, how big of a water change?


----------



## Ptyochromis (Mar 23, 2012)

Ich cannot tolerate temps above 85F. Raise temp + water changs + air stone (warm water has less dissolved oxygen). All you need to do. Alsoo test your water, sometimes meds can UN-cycle your filter leading to massive ammonia/nitrite spikes that can kill your fish.

You can raise the temp while using meds, but I would just stop with the meds and raise your temp. Lowering your water level in addition to an air stone can add more oxygen to your tank.

Seriously, more water changes.

Edit: also when you do a water change add un treated tap water to the tank and wait 5-10 min before adding de-chlorination. This will help kill any protozoa that may be lurking in your tank.


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

I will do a water change and raise temp to 86. I do have aquarium salt. Should I add that too?


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

It will be a miracle if this fish survives. Doesn't look good. I stopped the meds. Just did a 25 % water change. Raised the temp to hopefully 87. I usually keep it at 80. And added 15 rounded tablespoons of aquarium salt (1 tbs per 5 gal).


----------



## Ptyochromis (Mar 23, 2012)

Aquarium salt is not necessary for ich (in some cases it can cause more harm). Know that there is a strain of ich that originated in Florida that can tolerate temps up to 90F. If after a day or 2 the ich shows no sign of leaving, 90F can be a bit much for some fish to handle; I suggest using copper. But you should know that copper will kill your inverts, especially shrimp, nerites _might_ be able to handle the dose for ich, and my MTS just shrugged off the copper.


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

This would be a miracle if this fish lives. Looked like it was ready to go belly up at any time for about four days in a row. Didn't raise heat or add salt. Did ick meds on 6-5-12, 6-6-12, 6-7-12. White spots were gone, but fish seemed like it was doing worse. Still breathing heavy and looking like it was about to go belly up and die. Tilting almost completely sideways and barely only moving one side fin. Was literally thinking about taking it out and putting it in a bag and throwing out to end its misery.

Decided to listen to some on this forum to forget the meds and do the heat/salt treatment. On 6-8-12 did 25% water change, raised the heat to hopefully 86-88 and added 15 tbsp of salt to 75 g tank (1 tbsp salt per 5 g water). On 6-9-12 temp shot up to 92. Reduced heat, 25% water change, added another 15 tbsp of salt. On 6-10-12, 20% water change, added 4 tbsp of salt to keep it at around 2 tbsp per 5 g. Temp is now 86.

Red devil is now showing a ton of improvement. Able to swim to each side of tank. I tapped on the glass and it banged its face against the tank. The article suggests keeping heat at 86 or higher as well as up to 2-3 tbsp salt per 5 g of water for minimum of 10 days. As of now I plan on doing the heat/salt treatment for 10 days.

The only problem though is he still isn't eating, and didn't eat for about a week before he came down with ick. So I still don't consider this over and wonder if it's something else besides ick. I tested ammonia and nitrites. Both were at zero. Why isn't this fish eating? How long should I wait before trying something else?


----------



## Ptyochromis (Mar 23, 2012)

Make sure you are oxygenating the water plenty. Lower the water level and add an air pump warm water=less oxygen. I would check the gills for flukes. Make sure that when you add the salt you are not mixing it in the tank but mix it outside the tank before adding.

Does he have any discoloration or mucus? Is he rubbing on stuff? Is he 'coughing'? What color is his poop?
You can cover all your bases and dose maracin+kanamycin+malachite green/formalin,


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

The heat/salt treatment is now complete. Did 25% water change yesterday. No salt added this time. Lowered temp to 80 degrees. Plan on doing 25% water changes every other day to get all the salt out of tank. Red Devil appears to have recovered from this latest outbreak of ick. Swimming normally, digging gravel, looks normal. Only thing is though he still won't eat. He'll come to the surface, suck in a pellet of hikari cichlid gold, then spit it right out.

Called up a fish store where I make most of my purchases and have confidence in to get their opinion on why this fish isn't eating. If it doesn't eat by end of week, I'll probably take it out of tank, put in large insulated bucket, and take it to this fish place where one of the knowledgeable workers up there will take a look at it.


----------



## Ptyochromis (Mar 23, 2012)

try feeding him some BS. Looks like he doesn't like the hikari gold


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

My Red Devil recovered from ick last week but still is not eating. I took it out of the tank, put in an insulated bucket of aquarium water, and took the fish to the fish store to be examined. Fish store cichlid man took rd out of bucket, layed him out on a towel, and examined for any diseases. He didn't see anything physically wrong, but said it's one of two things. Either try using different foods or he could have an intestinal parasite that you can't see and meds would be required. To be on the safe side he recommended I use Metronidazole, a treatment for several protozoan and anaerobic bacterial diseases of fish (Cryptocaryon, Hexamita, Ichthyophthirius). I'm to use it every other day for one week. Hopefully this will work.


----------



## Ptyochromis (Mar 23, 2012)

On a towel? And not on a wet counter/something that isn't going to absorb water? That's kinda horrible for the fish.... And Cryptocaryon is saltwater ich, something tells me he doesn't have that.
Did you switch food on him? Also how long has he been on feeders? 
Is he pooping? If you see clear/poop that isn't brown coming out of him that's a sure sign of intestinal parasites.
How is his activity level?


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

Ptyochromis said:


> On a towel? And not on a wet counter/something that isn't going to absorb water? That's kinda horrible for the fish.... And Cryptocaryon is saltwater ich, something tells me he doesn't have that.
> Did you switch food on him? Also how long has he been on feeders?
> Is he pooping? If you see clear/poop that isn't brown coming out of him that's a sure sign of intestinal parasites.
> How is his activity level?


I realize taking the fish out of the tank and having someone laying it out on a towel has it's risks. But in my case it was worth the risk. Sort of like a last ditch effort to save the life of this fish. I've tried frozen brine shrimp, blood worms, krill, shrimp...when it was younger and he never would eat it, even after I stopped pellets for a week.

He's lived on hikari cichlid gold all his life. He's never been on feeders. Hasn't pooped in two weeks. Nothing is coming out of him. I've siphoned the gravel and see nothing. Activity level is average. Not acting sick or anything. Just won't eat. I don't know how this fish can do it or how much longer it can go on like this. It almost acts like it doesn't need food. Probably about three weeks since it's eaten.


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

It's still not looking that good and wondering how this Red Devil has the energy to even hold up as it hasn't eaten in probably three weeks. I'm medicating with Seachem Medronidazole every other day to rule out an intestinal infection. It's a powder like substance in a tube vial. Yesterday I noticed this fish was leaning sideways a little bit. Probably from lack of food.

The good news is yesterday and today it did eat one whole medium sized cichlid gold pellet without coughing it up. I tried other pellets and it would not eat. Before it got sick, it's lived on hikari cichlid gold. My only hope seems to be that maybe this is some type of internal infection and the meds will kill the infection.


----------



## Ptyochromis (Mar 23, 2012)

Sounds like the meds are working; I just hope it's not too late. Try splitting his feedings up to 3-4 feedings per day. Try not to let any food sit on the bottom of the tank, the water should stay as clean as humanly possible. Here is a link for force feeding http://www.mchportal.com/fishkeepin...eding-mainmenu-81/540-force-feeding-fish.html, I wouldn't do it personally; as a last resort it may save your fish's life. I know I often have to force feed some of my snakes, but snakes are not fish and I have no idea how much stress this may cause the fish.


----------



## uncleholmes (May 10, 2010)

I just want to update that my RD has miraculously recovered from ick and not eating. It took about a month before it finally came around and ate. Don't know how it held up. But it's eating regularly and acting normal now. Thanks for all the help.


----------



## Ptyochromis (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm glad to hear it, that's one lucky fish. I had assumed he had passed, due to the lack of activity on this thread. What did you do anyway?


----------

