# Extremely disappointed!



## Lou21 (Dec 11, 2014)

I'm extremely disappointed, I just recently got back into the hobby after about a 10 year hiatus. My LFS has always been great, very helpful and very knowledgeable, especially the boss man. I cant help but feel betrayed, I found out today it turns out the only food they feed them in the mixed and peacock tank are color enhancing hormone pellets. So the females even develop amazing color. Me, being my naive self, since I've been out of the african hobby for a while... I wasn't looking at dorsal/anal fin points. Especially since I trusted them so much, I even told them I wanted a male tank....... After I've gotten all my levels right (nitrites/nitrates) are finally under control, I decided to look into why my eccentrically beautiful fish have turned so bland. Turns out, about 3/4 of my peacocks are female with rounded dorsal and anal fins. I am extremely mad at the moment, considering I've spent over $700 in this place over the past couple of months between fish/supplies/filters. Do a lot of stores do this? or is this place a **** sham? Looking for advice on what you guys would do, should I go back and talk to the boss and tell him how I feel? Or is this the norm for them to try to swindle you into males using hormone pellets??? Please, some advice :-? :-?


----------



## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

Chances are their supplier did this, not the store, and they might not even have enough knowledge to realize this is happening.


----------



## Lou21 (Dec 11, 2014)

No, I was talking to one of the younger kids that works there, about my issue of how the eccentric colors have disappeared. He showed me the food that they feed them, that they receive from an "outside" source, he told me its a full hormone pellet and has no nutritional value and just enhances color to males and females.... He actually gave me a baggie full for free after i said something to him about it and he said not to keep feeding them that too long, as it will probably sterilize them. WTH can it be?


----------



## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

I definitely wouldn't keep feeding it. Suppliers in it for the money will "juice" up their fish cause bigger brighter fish sell better.But definitely not good for your fish.In an all male Peacock tank they aren't all gonna show the wicked bright colors anyways.I say feed em some good healthy food and enjoy what you got?


----------



## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

I hear ya. In my early years with cichlids, I also ended up with hormones females. I stopped buying from LFS and my stock are most bought through well known online stores.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would say it's the exception among LFS in the northeast US.

Did you ask before buying fish? I'd tell him he lost a customer and why and shop elsewhere.


----------



## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

What exception to the Northeast? Do you think this doesn't happen everywhere? I use two different suppliers that are both public retailers as well as hobbyists. I have never had issues with either of them. I think its important to find a supplier that can deliver a consistent quality product and stick to it.Online or in store,North,South,or West...most are in it for cash and are few exceptions to this. When I started in the hobby I used to go into shops anywhere I would pass by and if i seen a fish i liked,I brought it home. I learned the hard way that if you want quality fish,you need a a consistent trustworthy supplier.Chain stores are 100% out of the question for African cichlids. Don't even wanna get going on this.I used to think I was getting a great deal on 5$ Demasoni or 8$ tropheus. I had to learn the hard way as well as it seems you have with your all male peacock tank.For most it seems online ordering works best. Personally I like to see my fish before I buy them. I have minimum 2 hour roundtrip to get to my supply,but its well worth it.


----------



## Lou21 (Dec 11, 2014)

Thanks guys, @DJRansome yes I told them I was more interested in all males, but the kids that work there ( I believe it's family owned) Dont seem to be very knowledgeable (he told me the female venustus' have the blue faces and not the males lol) , especially since the kid told me the hormone food secret. I've been a long time fan of KGTropicals youtube video's, he is very informative and seems like a stand up guy. Reading lots of reviews, he has excellent stock and you always get what you order online, as he is in Virginia and I'm in NY i don't plan on taking the trip  But I am gonna go talk to the boss at my LFS and see what he has to say about this, considering how much money I've spent there. And he certainly has lost a customer as far as fish is concerned!!


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sorry to hear your troubles. I would personally return the fish to the guy.

I'd caution you about YouTube fish keeping information in general. A lot of it is misinformation.


----------



## Lou21 (Dec 11, 2014)

Hey Iggy, check out KGTropicals on youtube, this guy seems great He's been doing this for 20+ years as a retail/wholesale store. He has great instructional videos and sees to be the most informative that I've seen, he has his own channels and does reviews of a ton of diff cichlids species and how to keep them/aggression issues and every other coverage. If you check out a couple vids and feel it is misinformation please let me know  cause ill stop relying on it lol


----------



## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

This is rather humorous, what Iggy says about YouTube is the same thing the KGTropicals guy says about forums.


----------



## BDASTRK (Dec 12, 2014)

I always laugh at any know it all, bad mouthing person who thinks he knows best..............on a forum or anywhere. Very rarely does anyone with any vast knowledge on any topic ever shoot his mouth off..............I tend to read between the lines, use common sense and always get to where I need to go. Personally I think the guy from KGtropicals to be very informative and actually took the time to post these video's to help the beginner and or give his opinion.............personally I find it to be a great business move and helpful for any person getting into the hobby!

What I do know is this, there are a ton of want-a-be experts but there are very few that truly exist.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

As the speaker says, he has had lots of success and he is telling you what works for him. I'd research many sources, including CF and go with the consensus. From a glance at one of the videos, he likes WAY more fish in his tank than I do, LOL. If you have more specific feedback on a specific vendor, please post it in Reviews...not in the forums. Thanks!


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Lou- I know that channel and still stand by my initial response.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I was thinking about my reply to go with the consensus. I'd like to amend that to say "unless you have reason to believe the consensus is a myth that just gets repeated". If you think that, and you have some experience, then experiment for yourself.


----------



## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Sorry to hear your troubles. I would personally return the fish to the guy.
> 
> I'd caution you about YouTube fish keeping information in general. A lot of it is misinformation.


To be fair there is a lot of misinformation in forum posts as well. As a experienced fish keeper do I look for advice on forums and YouTube? Yes I do but I don't look to either as a definite source of truth. Too many opinions out there not enough truth. I more or less trust what I have learned from my experience and try to learn what I can from others. I use my best judgment as to what make sense for me.

What I will say about a YouTube channel like KG Tropical's John Hudson (yes I am a fan of his) is that he is not hiding behind an anonymous forum name giving advice (yes I am guilty of this). He puts his name out there for everyone to see and criticize. He never claims to be the expert source of truth. He bases his videos and advice from his past experiences and what has worked for him. He is the first one to say that this is his opinion and many may disagree with him and I do disagree with him on things from time to time. I think what he does is great for the hobby and there are many other good quality channels out there that are good for fish keeping.

The internet is full of good fish keeping advice but you can't take one forum/YouTube channel as the single source of truth. For me its look at multiple sources then compare it to my experience then extrapolate what makes sense.


----------



## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

I've seen a couple of these you- tube videos before. I think its tough to compare the diverse experience with all cichlids you come across on this forum to one persons experience.From my experience reading this forum over the years I would say for somebody looking for help with any issues or opinions...the advise here is second to none. That's just my opinion. I think at times some of the advise (truth) seems a little harsh...but all an all is almost always pretty straight up.Even when bad advice is given here someone will chime in and share different experience.That's what makes it the best way to get the advice that gives you the best possible chance for success.But for the most part you-tube videos are one persons opinion and are often misleading. The you-tube video that baselines cichlids should be stocked by dividing your gallons by two and that's how many cichlids you should put is interesting.But big fish like haps would count as two. So in a 55 gallon you could put 12 haps? That's the kind of thing that can be extremely misleading.


----------



## BDASTRK (Dec 12, 2014)

PhinFan1981 said:


> I've seen a couple of these you- tube videos before. I think its tough to compare the diverse experience with all cichlids you come across on this forum to one persons experience.From my experience reading this forum over the years I would say for somebody looking for help with any issues or opinions...the advise here is second to none. That's just my opinion. I think at times some of the advise (truth) seems a little harsh...but all an all is almost always pretty straight up.Even when bad advice is given here someone will chime in and share different experience.That's what makes it the best way to get the advice that gives you the best possible chance for success.But for the most part you-tube videos are one persons opinion and are often misleading. The you-tube video that baselines cichlids should be stocked by dividing your gallons by two and that's how many cichlids you should put is interesting.But big fish like haps would count as two. So in a 55 gallon you could put 12 haps? That's the kind of thing that can be extremely misleading.


I wont come here and try to defend him, but as a whole he is correct. If you have the proper filtration, Proper substrate 12 haps in a 55 gallon is doable NO PROBLEM. What isn't doable is housing them in a 55 gallon as adults. If a person doesn't know that going into it, then shame on them!

Listen I think the main problem is most people go into this hobby or any other with a shoe string budget and do things IMHO 1/2 assed or design something for 1 thing and head down a different path trying something else that it was designed for to begin with. I have over 80 Peackocks, Haps and Tangs in my 150 and I don't have a single problem and they all range from 2 1/2 to 5" right now and when full grown I still wont have an issue. Again I have proper filtration set-up to do so. So is he correct sure he is correct based on his statement "In General" that's not misleading, unless you cant read between the line. I guess if you THOUGHT that all filtration was the same then its misleading. I don't find that misleading, I find it misleading to people who where already mislead in their minds.


----------



## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

It's important to remember the difference between (no issues)in a tankowners eyes and a fish thriving throughout its life. In my opinion 12 haps don't belong in a 55 gallon...with ANY filtration.I wouldn't think of putting 12 haps together in a 55 with a 5000 gallon an hour pool filter.I just don't think its a fair deal to the fish.I'm not slamming anybody on any you-tube videos,but I do believe that the advice is misleading.You can't beat forum advice,because the opinions are from a much more diverse group of experience and knowledge.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Let's return to the OP's question about the prevalence of LFS feeding hormones and how you would handle such a situation. :thumb:


----------



## BDASTRK (Dec 12, 2014)

DJRansome said:


> Let's return to the OP's question about the prevalence of LFS feeding hormones and how you would handle such a situation. :thumb:


Yeah Sorry for participating on the "Get off topic crew" I had this happen to me once, I had just bought from a little breeder about 30 miles from my house............These two lady's who owned the place where going out of business, I just found out about them the week before. They had a pet store and Breeding facility I bought 30 different peacock and Haps that I knew something was up, these fish had outstanding color for 2" fish. I bought while I was there a 5 gallon bucket of Flake.............It was OSI which I have bought from many times. Well after my reserve flake ran out I noticed them coloring down quite a bit, I opened the OSI flake which wasn't sealed and when I opened the bucket this flake was Bright Orange/Red in a Spiralina Flake bucket, I didn't think much about until a week later when all my fish where glowing again.

I fed them fish that food 1 time a week for 3 yrs along with Spiralina flake and pellets and they where the best back of fish I have ever had. They all died between year 3 and 4. I wont lie my tank was stocked with unbelievable colored Peacocks! I wont lie if I had another 5 gallon bucket of it I would do it all over again!


----------



## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

I work in a LFS, and I can say that we definitely don't feed anything hormone related. The store deals mostly in saltwater, so feeding usually consists of frozen blends, mysis, and algae strips.

However, I've noticed that the cichlids we've been getting from our local supplier have been exceptionally colorful lately, including juveniles under 2 inches. I took a few home, and wouldn't you know it, not a month later they had colored down to what I would consider typical juvenile form. I've also been finding a lot of obviously hormoned peacocks at the local Petco and Petsmart, which get at least some of their fish from the same supplier. It's really unfortunate, and pretty dishonest in my book. For a local fish store to do this and for an employee to share this information with you and GIVE you hormone enhanced food is baffling.

Speaking of that store, did you ever talk to the owner?


----------



## Lou21 (Dec 11, 2014)

No I never had a chance to speak to the owner, the store is always packed and he is always extremely busy. Since he has always been good to me (reduced prices on filters/ my current satellite LED multi-color 36" which he gave me for for 50$!!!/rocks and fish) cause of my veteran status, I wouldn't feel right about calling him out in front of anybody, you know? He's a great guy but the whole situation obviously does seem dishonest to me. The kid that told me about the food and actually gave me a sample and told me all the cons about it, ie. sterility, is a younger kid, about 18-19 and I'm sure he didn't think it was illegal or frowned upon. Next time I'm there I'm going to try to discreetly try to pull the boss-man aside.


----------



## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

Not a bad idea. While many hobbyists frown upon it, he might not see it the same way as you/we do. Given the kid's attitude, it sounds like they don't really feel that they're doing anything wrong. And since he's treated you well in the past, I totally understand not wanting to shame him in front of his customers. Good call.


----------



## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

The problem is that there is a certain large Florida fish farm that gets a majority of its stock from Asia and Asia is well known form hormoning the heck out of tropical fish. These fish are turned around rather quickly so by the time they get to the resellers they are still full of juice. I have seen it first hand. I talk weekly with an owner from a small LFS and he orders his fish from this same farm as do the big box stores. He gets 1" peacocks from this farm that are showing bright color both male and female and they are dirt cheap. LFS have started to order from the same farm to keep their prices low to compete with the big box stores.


----------



## Rare7 (Dec 31, 2014)

To the OP, not sure how far you are from <vendor name removed> but check them out. They open to the public on Sat. I hope this is nor one of the fish farms that Hapguy63 is talking about....Hapguy? I'm like you i want to see what i'm buy, but some of the fish farm here are private...its a shame....


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Please send a PM with specific vendor recommendations.


----------



## Lou21 (Dec 11, 2014)

I'm in Long island NY, I've heard of an indoor breeding warehouse in a farmingdale, about 40 min from me. Im gonna try to check them out. Thank you for all the info guys n gals


----------

