# Rock Work For Tang Tank



## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

I have finally started setting up my 125 Gallon Tang tank and I am wondering about what type or rocks and style for the tank

It will house Frontosa's and Calvus with possibly some Juliedichromis
Currently I have 3 fronts and 4 calvus and 1 Juliedichromis transcriptus/malieri mix

I have some leftover lava rock from my other tank but not very much

What type of rock work do Fronts and Calvus like?

Does granite go well and should there be lots of hiding places?

I prefer not to get very large and heavy rocks as I always fear they may crack my tank

for my 125 Malawi tank I have exclusively lava rock which is not very heavy

I also have a choice of background colours of either black or dark blue. My substrate is Carib Sea crushed aragonite coral which is kind of light brownish in colour


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

a 125 is to small for 3 fronts alone imo. fronts should also be kept in a group of at least 5 or 6.personally i would say 2 males 5 females the smallest group that i would keep. i wouldnt put julies with the fronts because they will be eaten. stay away from lava rock its too rough and could injure the fish. big rocks will not crack your tank unless u slam them against the glass. the tank is designed to hold as much rock as u want to put in.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Don't be afraid of large rocks :wink: You can line the bottom of the tank with egg crate. Fronts like caves.

Below are a couple pictures of my two front tanks (240 & 125). The stone in both tanks is Arkansas Field Stone.


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

Razzo said:


> Don't be afraid of large rocks :wink: You can line the bottom of the tank with egg crate. Fronts like caves.
> 
> Below are a couple pictures of my two front tanks (240 & 125). The stone in both tanks is Arkansas Field Stone.


i gotta say, i think most of the pics u post are fake. they are def doctored in my opinion. i mean check out pic #2. the fish are almost cartoon. they were def superimposed into pic. imo. i've seen others,( such as your kilesa pics) which i think are also fakes


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Razzo,

I, for one, enjoy your pictures and have never considered them fake.

Joe


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

LOL


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Fronts do much better in a harem situation. It really helps diffuse aggression from the dominat male and spreads it out so that no one fish gets a lethal dose.

In a 125, a max number of fronts would be seven, possibly eight. It really depends on the personality of your group. The ratio mentioned above is a good one (2m/5f). I have that exact ratio in my 125 and in my 240 I am down to seven in there, at the moment, with 3m/4f (would love to add another quad).


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

So how do I tell the difference between male and female fronts

I currently have 3 Fronts max size maybe 3 1/2 inches or a touch larger

I would like to add 2 or 3 more once my 125 is setup (almost ready)

They are Burundi I believe, so I guess I will stick with those

I guess its not good to mix different types or does it matter


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

dont mix. only way to tell sex for sure is to vent. u can find pics on line of people venting fronts to help u determine


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

plug said:


> So how do I tell the difference between male and female fronts
> 
> I currently have 3 Fronts max size maybe 3 1/2 inches or a touch larger
> 
> ...


At 3.5" it will be very difficult to determine gender. Venting is the most reliable method but yours are probably a little too small to accurately vent (in another year they will be plenty big enough to vent). Mixing: the Cyphos community in the US frowns on mixing variants and hybrid fry are the the main issue. With that said, they are your fish and you can do what you want. There are not really any health risks with mixing; however, again, hybrid fry are the issue. I would encourage you to stick with what you already have.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

Of course I want to keep the strains pure, and I do believe mine are Burundi
If I post a pic or 2 or more would any Front experts be able to say if it is a Burundi?

When I bought these I did not have much knowledge about them, but as I learn more I am starting to see that I need to properly research any new cichlids before buying them

I will try and post some pics later on and hopefully someone can advise me

My 125 Tang Tank finally haw water in it so I just need to add some rocks and cycle and its good to go...


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

sumthinfishy said:


> i gotta say, i think most of the pics u post are fake. they are def doctored in my opinion. i mean check out pic #2. the fish are almost cartoon. they were def superimposed into pic. imo. i've seen others,( such as your kilesa pics) which i think are also fakes


OK, I'll take the bait... debated whether or not to respond. I will give a somewhat limited response.

1st: that's quite a slam - total hit piece which I think has no place in a forum like this. If you had you chosen to reply in a constructive (and not a destructive) tone, we could have started a new thread where I would happily share my work flow and we could even have a lively debate about Photoshop (and exchange competing opinions in the arena of ideas). But, instead, you type out a disrespectful rant. I have been on this forum for MANY years and have helped others and others have helped me. That's what forums like this are all about. So, "sumthingfishy" whatever motivated you to attack, take a "chill pill" and keep it respectful and constructive.

2nd: I love cichlids and photography [which includes POST work (i.e. Photoshop)]. I love the fact that I get to combine both hobbies into one (I enjoy it immensely). My POST workflow is well documented on many cichlid forums (where I share my "do & don'ts" and some work flow tips). So, do I Photoshop my images - absolutely! I love it, it's fun, I aspire to keep learning and growing. I have been inspired by others and I hope to pay it forward as I grow.

Now I realize in a "hit piece" like this, you really don't care about my reply. I gotta ask you, on image #2, the one where you say I pasted a fish.... really? Where do you think that fish came from? That doesn't make sense. Now, I have removed fish, waste, and spots with the "content aware" tool in PS; however, I most certainly didn't paste a fish in.

So, sumthingfishy, I'm calling you out - that was wrong and destructive to forum communities. I'm done with you and am not going to be baited any further.

To anyone else, I'm an open book, just ask 

Thanks,
Russ


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

i hear, understand, and appreciate your point. however, mine was confirmed also. i guess i should work on my approach. for that i appologize. however i dont see it as a slam when its true. yes, your pics are beautiful. yes, u do agreat job with the photography and photoshop. i guess my reason for the comment is i feel it misleading to post pics of your photoshopped fish when responding to a thread. the potential newb that posts the thread is now expecting his fish to look like hayours or find fish that look like yours not realizing that he's not going to because its camera magic. thats my opinion. wrong or right i dont know. anyway, back to thread. my picture comments were made so the op would understand that these were not realistic representations. however u chose to turn this into a completely different discussion derailing the op. i figure u being such a big forum guy that u would have pm'd me instead of derailing. have a good day.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

My "public" reply was determined by your "public" post.

My reply/pics was to show that you can use big rocks safely.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

sumthinfishy said:


> i hear, understand, and appreciate your point. however, mine was confirmed also. i guess i should work on my approach. for that i appologize. however i dont see it as a slam when its true. yes, your pics are beautiful. yes, u do agreat job with the photography and photoshop. i guess my reason for the comment is i feel it misleading to post pics of your photoshopped fish when responding to a thread. the potential newb that posts the thread is now expecting his fish to look like hayours or find fish that look like yours not realizing that he's not going to because its camera magic. thats my opinion. wrong or right i dont know. anyway, back to thread. my picture comments were made so the op would understand that these were not realistic representations. however u chose to turn this into a completely different discussion derailing the op. i figure u being such a big forum guy that u would have pm'd me instead of derailing. have a good day.


Seriously man?


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Here's that pic 100% unedited (except resized down to 1200 pixels wide). This was not altered in Adobe Camera RAW and it was not altered in Photoshop. The fish are real and awesome :wink:

Sorry guys and sorry to the OP. I was attacked publically and had to respond in kind. I promise I'm done. My point is validated by the image below. Anyone wanting a copy of the RAW file (which I don't think is editable) is welcome to it.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

sumthinfishy said:


> here comes the cavalry. i am a black and white kinda guy. there is real and there is fake. apparently my definition of these two words is different then yours. if more people want to get involved in this convo then i can go all night. otherwise i suggest those who have not been involved in the thread thus far stay out of it! and razzo, u were not attacked u were just called out for doctoring your images


First off, there is nothing wrong with editing images and 2nd, there is nothing for you to call me out on. My post work flow is well publicized and has never been hid.

The real issue is your lack of dignity and respect. I have been "trolled" by you and let you bait me in. Kudos to you for luring me in.

3rd time is a charm :lol: I will will not let you troll me anymore.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

OK

Hate to interrupt the arguing here, but I took some pics of my fronts...not very good pics but maybe someone can let me know if they are Burundi which I think that's what I bought


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Yes, they do look like Burundi.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks

I will then look for about 3 or 4 more to build my stock

When I start using my new camera, I hope to take better pictures soon


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## workharddieproud (Nov 7, 2013)

Razzo, you can take pics of my fish any day. I mean really, who cares what you do with your pictures that you post on here. I, in MY opinion have a great looking tank and great looking fish but the photos I take don't do them justice and I'm planning on taking more with my Iphone 6 which you can EDIT pics with it and make them look better but that doesn't mean my fish are FAKE. :thumb:


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

plug said:


> Thanks
> 
> I will then look for about 3 or 4 more to build my stock
> 
> When I start using my new camera, I hope to take better pictures soon


Plug,

I might be able to help you source some nice stock when you are ready.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

workharddieproud said:


> Razzo, you can take pics of my fish any day. I mean really, who cares what you do with your pictures that you post on here. I, in MY opinion have a great looking tank and great looking fish but the photos I take don't do them justice and I'm planning on taking more with my Iphone 6 which you can EDIT pics with it and make them look better but that doesn't mean my fish are FAKE. :thumb:


Thanks 

It's a fun part of the hobby. I like all pics no matter what someone may perceive the quality. Shoot, keep shooting and keep posting :thumb:

I have had people inspire me and currently have a friend in Oz inspiring me. If I can, in some small way inspire others: hey, that's what forums like this are all about.


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## Handyjoe (Jan 11, 2015)

Like I've said in a different place, Russ, you could do no wrong with your stunningly beautiful pics. You should publish a magazine with your work. I'll be the first one to get a copy. Wish I have your skill set! Keep up the good work!
Joe.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Handyjoe said:


> Like I've said in a different place, Russ, you could do no wrong with your stunningly beautiful pics. You should publish a magazine with your work. I'll be the first one to get a copy. Wish I have your skill set! Keep up the good work!
> Joe.


Thanks Joe


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Just to reiterate, as a fellow photography enthusiast, post processing is as much a normal part of photography as using chemicals to develop film was back in the day. Any self respecting photographer uses it. What the eye sees and what the camera sees aren't always the same.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Plug if you're looking for some young burundi I may be able to point you to a reliable source for these. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

I took some better pics (I hope) of my Fronts so hopefully they will be confirmed Burundi


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