# Cichlids flicking and rubbing against objects.



## ah_hup

hi recently i noticed some of my african cichlids flicking and rubbing against the tank decor occasionally. tank is a 3ft and as for my water parameters, both ammonia is at 1.0, whereas nitrite is 0, as for nitrate is 12.5. is this ok? i have also done a 30% water change as i suspect it could be external parasites affecting them. are there any recommendation of medications for such cases?? also must i add in a heater to increase the temp?? pls help as i do not want to lose any fishes as they have been with me for close to 2 years.


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## cichlidaholic

That ammonia level is too high! You are going to need to start doing frequent water changes as soon as possible.

Ammonia and nitrite should both be zero.

How long has this tank been set up? 2 years?

What is your normal tank maintenance routine on the tank?

The temp should be kept at 78-80 degrees, so if it's falling below that and fluctuating alot, you do need a heater.

Right now, focus on getting that ammonia back under control. If you have access to Prime, you should add some of that to help detoxify your ammonia. If you haven't done regular tank maintenance, start by doing small water changes of 10-20% several times a day, monitoring the levels in between each water change.

There is no way I would advise adding meds to the tank without cleaning it up first! Ammonia burn can cause the behaviour you are describing.

Kim


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## ah_hup

sorry i just realised i did a typo! my ammonia is not 1 but it's 0ppm. i did a double test to ensure im not seeing wrongly and it's 0. my water change regime is 30% every week. and yes it's been setup for 2 years plus. pls advise.


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## cichlidaholic

Have you added any new fish recently?

Flashing and rubbing against tank objects is normally an indicator of some type of external parasites.

Any white salt like spots on their bodies?

Redness around the gill area?

White cottony growths?

Fin deterioration?

If you aren't seeing anything, then I would go with some sort of external parasite treatment as soon as possible, preferably one that has both formalin and malachite green, but I'm not sure what is available to you there.

I would start by doing a larger water change and substrate vacuuming before beginning treatment, which is always a good idea when parasites are suspected. Squeeze in as many water changes as possible during treatment.

Glad your ammonia was a typo! :thumb:

Kim


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## ah_hup

oh my god! i just realised what could be the cause.. one of my Placidochromis milomo is having white spots!  but it's not that severe yet as not the whole body is covered with white spots. i have no suitable tank to quarantine it and i have no good experience with sick quarantined cichlids as all died after a few days when i removed them from the main tank.
shld i raise the temp to 30 degrees?? and what type of salt can i add in for treatment in a cichlid tank?? im planning to do another WC before increasing the temp.


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## mr.davon24

ah_hup said:


> oh my god! i just realised what could be the cause.. one of my Placidochromis milomo is having white spots!  but it's not that severe yet as not the whole body is covered with white spots. i have no suitable tank to quarantine it and i have no good experience with sick quarantined cichlids as all died after a few days when i removed them from the main tank.
> shld i raise the temp to 30 degrees?? and what type of salt can i add in for treatment in a cichlid tank?? im planning to do another WC before increasing the temp.


I am not a expert but, I had the same problems with my fish. The out come wasn't to good either. First you should look at kim's sig. She has some very good info on "ICH". Mine cleared up in just for days by using quick cure and 10-20 % water changes every other day and 10 gallons before the next dose. wish you luck


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## cichlidaholic

Ich meds with formalin and malachite green are my first choice, but you want to make sure it's ich. (I don't raise the tank temp when I use meds.)

Is it salt like in appearance, or are the growths irregularly shaped and cottony/fuzzy?

IMO, anytime you're dealing with something like this, whether it be bacterial or parasitic (ich), you always need to treat the main tank if you can afford the meds to do so.

Kim


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## ah_hup

yeah it's those tiny white spot.. like salt like. i have seen it rubbing against objects many times. some of my other cichlids are beginning to rub against the objects too but no sign of white spots on them yet.


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## cichlidaholic

Okay, that sounds like ich...Try to find a med that has both formalin and malachite green in it!

Not sure if those are available to you, so you may have to go with another med or the salt and heat treatment as described in the link below my signature.

However you treat it, squeeze in as many water changes as you can!

Kim


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## ah_hup

alright.. i just observed my tankmates for quite awhile just now.. realised that the white spots on the 'milomo' is beginning to disappear. and the flicking cichlids are not rubbing against the objects as often. but i noticed one of my 'red zebra estherae' has an scratch on his body. i suspect could be it accidentally rub too hard against one of the objects. now it's hiding inside one of the caves.. it used to be the most dominant tankmates, chasing whoever that comes near it's territory.. now it's just hiding away.. not eating also.  i'm afraid stressing it further will affect it's wound further.

so will the salt heal it also or i must add in melafix/pimafix?? advise pls!


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## cichlidaholic

ah_hup, it sounds like you may have multiple problems in the tank.

What do you have the temp at? How long has it been that way? How have the fish reacted to the increased temps?

I'm asking because the heat method can stress fish out quite a bit, leading to other problems down the line - one of the reasons I don't care to use it. Any gasping or hovering at the top of the tank during treatment?

Any white stringy feces?

What size tank is this?

What is the stocklist?

What is your normal tank maintenance routine regarding water changes?

I think we need to look at the whole picture at this point.

What are your current water parameters?

Kim


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## ah_hup

currently the temp is at 30 degrees. and i have the heater on for only 2 days. most are my fishes are not affected. and the white spots have disappeared from my milomo. i also noticed that the affected 'estherae' has swam out of its cave and started swimming around the tank. i have not seen any of my fishes gasping for air at the surface so far.

and to answer all ur qn.

no white faeces,
tank size is a 3ft tank holding 150 litres of water,
bio load is 20 malawis includes 6 juveniles.
and i do a 30% WC weekly.

but i still think it's safer to use heater+salt method for another few days just to make sure that the white spots are cleared, is this advisable??
also can i use melafix/pimafix at the same time too for the injured 'estherae'??


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## preacherboy

Since you have raised your water temperature, be sure to oxygenate the
water's surface more than usual!

Higher temps require more increased oxygen levels or the fish will
become stressed and lead to other problems later on.

Just thought I would point that out!

Good luck!


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## ah_hup

erm.. I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, I just did a 30% WC today equivalent to 13 gallons, I added the salt one teaspoon per hour. total times added was 10. shld I dose the whole of the tank volume or just the added new water??


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## cichlidaholic

When using salt, you only replace the amount applicable to the water you remove and replace.

I think you're taking a risk of stressing the fish by doing this after already medicating, so I would really stay on top of things in the tank.

My next goal would be to find out if those 20 mbuna are going to be okay in this tank long term, because it's not a large enough tank for the red zebra as an adult, and odds are it isn't large enough for some of the others, either. If I'm right, you'll have all sorts of health and aggression issues as they all come into maturity. (Stress can cause alot of problems, including ich.)

Kim


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## catamaranman

Check out Fishgal's article: "Understanding and Treating Ich or White Spot". It has the best B.S. to I had a "mild" case after re-stocking a 125G. None of my fish showed any visible white spots but were rubbing and "flashing" alot. I simply used the heat treatment outlined in her article to the letter (which took about 10 days @ 86F) and did not have to resort to handling carcinogens to medicate my tank. :dancing:


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## cichlidaholic

catamaranman said:


> Check out Fishgal's article: "Understanding and Treating Ich or White Spot". It has the best B.S. to I had a "mild" case after re-stocking a 125G. None of my fish showed any visible white spots but were rubbing and "flashing" alot. I simply used the heat treatment outlined in her article to the letter (which took about 10 days @ 86F) and did not have to resort to handling carcinogens to medicate my tank. :dancing:


This thread is from February! I really hope it's resolved by now! :thumb:


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