# My german red peacock is no longer red...



## beachtan (Sep 25, 2008)

I purchased a gorgeous VERY red peacock from a LFS for a HIGH price... now that I've had him for little over a month, he has turned brown-ish orange. Very disappointing - I feed spiro. flakes and NLS pellets. He isnt chased at all - 125gal also holds a few other peacocks, yellow labs, lethrinops... any hints how I can bring back the red?


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

One of two things: either hormoned or dominance.

How large is he? Depending on his size, he could have been hormoned.
Either that, he was the dominant male in the previous tank and once established in your tank, he was stripped of that title, so-to-speak.

Besides the spirulina flakes and NLS- you could try nutrarose powder.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

opcorn:


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## roke28 (Oct 26, 2008)

Probably, just dropped to the bottom of the pecking order. I had a German to but gave him away because he was a wuss. If you want him to color up take out the current dominant male for alittle while and see if that helps.


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## aquaholic85 (Nov 22, 2007)

Ya prob bought a roid raging fish.. once they are off the 'stuff' they are turn dull and timid......


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## nismo_sky28 (Oct 5, 2011)

Lol @ roid raging fish


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## cichlid_baby (Jan 28, 2003)

aquaholic85 said:


> Ya prob bought a roid raging fish.. once they are off the 'stuff' they are turn dull and timid......


Highly doubtful that you've done your research as to come so quickly to this conclusion. Possible.. but not very likely as there numerous other reasons as to why any fish would lose coloration.


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## Ironmahn (Mar 17, 2008)

My 2 cents, I agree with others that have stated the role dominance plays on coloration. As a keeper and breeder of this type of peacock, I would say what you have described points to the dominance status in that tank. They only way to bring that intense red back would be to make him the dominate fish again. Unless he is ill, or a new guy to that tank I would think that would be the case here.


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## aquaholic85 (Nov 22, 2007)

I was only suggesting hormoned fish .. of course the factors play majority in that


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Ironmahn said:


> My 2 cents, I agree with others that have stated the role dominance plays on coloration. As a keeper and breeder of this type of peacock, I would say what you have described points to the dominance status in that tank. They only way to bring that intense red back would be to make him the dominate fish again. Unless he is ill, or a new guy to that tank I would think that would be the case here.


Yep....I took out a albino eureka red and within 2 days my sunshine went from a hint of yellow/gold and alot of grey to bright golden yellow with bright blue head and blue throughout the body where it used to be grey. Very pretty.


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## beachtan (Sep 25, 2008)

I've been really watching my tank, and cant see any fish dominating - no one chases eachother, they just kinda wander around. The only fish moving fast are the yellow labs trying to breed with eachother. Maybe I just need to watch longer...

and the peacock was about 2" and was a trade-in at the LFS - still floating in the bag when I bought it so I kinda doubt it was hormoned, but how would you do that? I might wanna try it on my show tank! just kidding.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

beachtan said:


> I've been really watching my tank, and cant see any fish dominating - no one chases eachother, they just kinda wander around. The only fish moving fast are the yellow labs trying to breed with eachother. Maybe I just need to watch longer...
> 
> and the peacock was about 2" and was a trade-in at the LFS - still floating in the bag when I bought it so I kinda doubt it was hormoned, but how would you do that? I might wanna try it on my show tank! just kidding.


He was VERY colorful at 2" showing full male colors? My brother bought a sunshine hear locally about that size showing awesome male colors and I told him I didn't think that was normal to be in full display at that size. It has been about 4 months now and the fish is a bit bigger but lost a lot of colors and started to turn more drab gray. Colors look really washed out. My sunshine on the other hand was very drab gray with some dark golden colors. He now is about 4" and the colors are amazing. I am not saying 100% for certain but your fish may have been hormoned and sold to the LFS for a hefty price. You said you paid a very high price?

I noticed at a LFS the other day they had a 5" jake peacock that was very nice(I mean very nice). They wanted $50 for it.

I hope this is not what is happening in your case. Can you post a pic?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

beachtan said:


> cant see any fish dominating - no one chases eachother, they just kinda wander around.


Aggression is quite often not witnessed, but this might not be due to chasing. There is a pecking order in the tank and if he has moved down from the top he may dim his colors to remain inconspicuous.

You can find out by removing him from the tank and seeing if he colors up.


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## Ironmahn (Mar 17, 2008)

beachtan said:


> and the peacock was about 2" and was a trade-in at the LFS - still floating in the bag when I bought it so I kinda doubt it was hormoned, but how would you do that? I might wanna try it on my show tank! just kidding.


This is done by chemicals added to the tank water, food, etc. You get the idea. But here is a note: This can cause long term health issues for fish, and you never know how much damage is done to fish by using hormones to make them prematurely color. In my opinion, the majority of the people are doing this to sell fish. There are other reasons behind doing this, but for the most part it is just bad news and bad business. Hope that answers your question.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Ironmahn said:


> beachtan said:
> 
> 
> > and the peacock was about 2" and was a trade-in at the LFS - still floating in the bag when I bought it so I kinda doubt it was hormoned, but how would you do that? I might wanna try it on my show tank! just kidding.
> ...


If I could get my hands on some of these people I would wring their necks. This not only is bad for the fish and cruel but it has caused me many problems personally.


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## heaya (Oct 18, 2011)

Seems like it's pretty common for people to get a "juiced" german red. I always keep my eyes open for them when I go look at fish, it's almost a "red flag" to see them really colored up at such a small size. They're all over the auction sites, you look to see where they're shipped from, 9/10 somewhere in Asia. Even worse, you get what you thought was a male due to the "juicing" and turns out, you have a female.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

I also had a similar experience with a german red peacock. He was rather small, yet very colored up. After a week or two he had turned brown with bars.

I wonder if perhaps some of the line bred red peacocks that have more of a red color, as opposed to the more typical rust color, are perhaps less dominant in behavior as is the color. Since the rust color is the naturally dominant color, perhaps it is so because those fish also have dominant behavior genes.


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## heaya (Oct 18, 2011)

vann59 said:


> I also had a similar experience with a german red peacock. He was rather small, yet very colored up. After a week or two he had turned brown with bars.
> 
> I wonder if perhaps some of the line bred red peacocks that have more of a red color, as opposed to the more typical rust color, are perhaps less dominant in behavior as is the color. Since the rust color is the naturally dominant color, perhaps it is so because those fish also have dominant behavior genes.


Sort of confused. Red peacocks were a result of selective line breeding from Aulonocara sp. Stuartgranti Chipoka/sunshine or orange peacocks. The brown with barring sounds like a female to me? I don't know what exactly plays a role with genetics concerning whether a fish that can produce more vibrant colors being more "dominant." I just know whomever becomes dominant usually shows the better colors, but that doesn't mean he necessarily would look better than your subdom if he was the dominant one instead. If that makes any sense


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

Sub-dominant males may masquerade as females to avoid confrontation, if I am not mistaken.

I am just pondering whether the color variations we find most attractive as humans, may not always be the most successful ones in a wild breeding environment.


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## heaya (Oct 18, 2011)

vann59 said:


> Sub-dominant males may masquerade as females to avoid confrontation, if I am not mistaken.
> 
> I am just pondering whether the color variations we find most attractive as humans, may not always be the most successful ones in a wild breeding environment.


Didn't know if they could do it to that degree? Maybe someone that has a large number can chime in. I guess at a smaller size they can, it just seems like most sexually dimorphic fish aren't able to at maturity. I've seen subdoms not as colorful, but not to a point where it would be completely brown. However you did say when he was "rather small" originally.


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## 4RSo (Aug 13, 2011)

How can you tell if a fish has been raised on hormones? Is it basically size in conjunction with coloration? e.g. a small fish with nice colors? Or is it a female with nice coloration or the size of females or males? Chances are the fish I have aren't but it would be nice to be able to check.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

4RSo said:


> How can you tell if a fish has been raised on hormones? Is it basically size in conjunction with coloration? e.g. a small fish with nice colors? Or is it a female with nice coloration or the size of females or males? Chances are the fish I have aren't but it would be nice to be able to check.


One thing I have noticed in my area is fish such as a red fin borleyi displaying full male colors and finnage at small sizes. I found one that was about 1" displaying full male colors. I also bought a red empress...I thought was a male....showing a blue head and fins turning orange and blue but then became pregnant. I know some females will show hints of male colors to try to keep from being picked on as well.


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## Noddy65 (Sep 20, 2005)

Probably not hormones...possibly fed a colour food like White Crane....theres a lot of theories out there about White Crane containing hormones and affecting fertility...the current theory is that it only affects fertility because even the females will colour up, looking almost like a male, and the poor males dont know who to mate with


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Noddy65 said:


> Probably not hormones...possibly fed a colour food like White Crane....theres a lot of theories out there about White Crane containing hormones and affecting fertility...the current theory is that it only affects fertility because even the females will colour up, looking almost like a male, and the poor males dont know who to mate with


I did a quick look for white crane and I can't even see where you can buy the stuff so I am not sure where LFS can get it. Maybe an off shore company?


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## beachtan (Sep 25, 2008)

http://www.thereefshop.com.au/index.php ... cts_id=268

Pretty Pricey!!

I was also told by a breeder that if my fish was dominant in the prior tank, the fact that he's smaller than most fish in my tank (his "new" tank), then he'll fade. I'll just wait and see. My blue neon peacock faded when I first added him to my 125gal, but now after several months he's looking great!

Heres some pics of my fish when i first got him:


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## heaya (Oct 18, 2011)

can you post a picture of what he looks like now?


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

He looks just like the little german red I bought, which turned brown.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Heres a picture of my German Red, the day I brought him home still in the transport bag. I bought him back in April 2011.










Here he is today, still nicely colored up. In the pictures below he doesnt look as red as he does above but if you watch my video you'll see hes just as red. 
125g Male Peacock / Male Hap / Mbuna tank _*<---click*_

Im pretty lucky to have a good / trustworthy LFS about 10mins from my house that specializes in cichlids. He always has great looking peacock & hap males.


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## AFRICAN-FISH (Oct 16, 2011)

Nice my LFS only has like 5 species of mbuna, they specialize in salt water which sucks for me


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

AFRICAN-FISH said:


> Nice my LFS only has like 5 species of mbuna, they specialize in salt water which sucks for me


Mine specializes in salt water too. Best of both worlds!


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

AFRICAN-FISH said:


> Nice my LFS only has like 5 species of mbuna, they specialize in salt water which sucks for me


That's very typical of fish stores here too.


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## AFRICAN-FISH (Oct 16, 2011)

vann59 said:


> AFRICAN-FISH said:
> 
> 
> > Nice my LFS only has like 5 species of mbuna, they specialize in salt water which sucks for me
> ...


Isn't dissapointing!


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## gmaschke (Aug 23, 2008)

I read part of the thread but not the whole thing so forgive me if this is repetitive. I have searched long and hard and bred Ruby Reds for a while. I have made purchases from many sources and bred them themselves as well as with other stock. I have yet to see any like the advertised pics. I have had a few great red males but they are rare. Like suggested, they must be the dominant fish in the tank to display their best color. This is the same with all fish.

There are also foods available that help fish display their best reds that do not include hormones. Also it seems to me when I grow out fry 1 male will color earliest, I have found this male will always be dominant and display the best colors. This is established even when they are a little over an inch. You can separate that male and hope another starts displaying as nice. It seems this way to me with all peacocks.

Forget the bright red colors breeders show in their pics. One its the best male of their strain and if they are not hormoned you can bet the utilized lighting to make the red pop.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

gmaschke said:


> Like suggested, they must be the dominant fish in the tank to display their best color.


My German Red isnt dominant, hes a straight up WUSS!!  But none of fish are aggressive so maybe thats why he stayed colored up, because he feels safe.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

vann59 said:


> That's very typical of fish stores here too.


I wouldve though that Florida would have some nice cichlids for sale? What part of Florida are you in? Im moving to Orlando this May to be around my family that currently lives there but I might reconsider if they dont have a variety of cichlids to offer!!!  Im going to visit Orlando the day after Christmas for a week. We're going to hit up Disney World for like the 20th time. :dancing:


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

Sub-Mariner said:


> vann59 said:
> 
> 
> > That's very typical of fish stores here too.
> ...


I'm in Sarasota and the nearest serious cichlid suppliers are around Tampa area. There may be something better in Orlando, I don't really know.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

vann59 said:


> Sub-Mariner said:
> 
> 
> > vann59 said:
> ...


You should try living in western arkansas. The closest really good african cichlid LFS is a hour and a half away.


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