# Long time hobbyist starting malawi tank



## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Hello,

I have kept fish for several years now. I have been into everything from Apistogramma to Tanganyikans. I have never kept anything from Malawi. I have a standard 125g tank and I don't pay much attention to it anymore. I thought about changing the fish out just to create some interest. What would you guys suggest? A colony of the smaller mbuna? I would like to see all of the fussing/breeding/flirting that cichlids are known for. Just in a more action packed package. I know my wife would appreciate the color a lot more than my "little brown fish" that I usually keep.

Looking forward to your suggestions.


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## Krowbar (May 7, 2017)

I'm new to the Malawi's too... just started a new tank with some. Had a Flower-horn.. one fish, fish tank only... My girl hated that i only had one fish and we like the colors and watching more then just one fish going around... There is so many to choose from... I'm glad i found this website.. great place for info..


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I loved my mbuna tank in the 125G. I had:
20 demasoni
5 acei
5 yellow labs
5 red zebras (don't save fry)
5 socolofi

Enjoy!

If I had it to do again, I would sub 1m:7f maingano for the demasoni. 3m:9f Cynotilapia sp. hara for both the socolofi and acei.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> I loved my mbuna tank in the 125G. I had:
> 20 demasoni
> 5 acei
> 5 yellow labs
> ...


40 fish seems like so many! What did you like about it in particular?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Can't live without the demasoni. 40 fish would be WAY too many if one species was not demasoni. They are a challenge, but you have a lot of experience.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Are demasoni fun to watch? With that many fish, is there pretty much constant spawning/flirting to watch?

I enjoy the tank I have now, but it takes a little watching to see something going on.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

All mbuna are fun to watch...even haps and peacocks are fun to watch.

As soon as the fish are old enough to spawn, if you have males and females there will be constant action.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

When my colony was in full swing I had females holding all the time. 10 at the same time once. Constant action.


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## bossanova9 (Jul 9, 2012)

ahud said:


> Are demasoni fun to watch? With that many fish, is there pretty much constant spawning/flirting to watch?
> 
> I enjoy the tank I have now, but it takes a little watching to see something going on.


have a look at this:


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> When my colony was in full swing I had females holding all the time. 10 at the same time once. Constant action.


This is your tank right?





If so, where did you get those rocks? Could you describe how large the biggest ones are? I am interested in doing something like this. Actually, I would not mind simply copying this! wonderful scape. The demasoni are pretty cool to watch move amongst the rock work.

You probably know my hesitation with mbuna since you have kept New worlds/tangs. With New worlds, the whole spawning routine is so fun to watch take place. I think I'll miss that. But when the smaller new worlds are not spawning, they are not very entertaining. Tanganyikans are just wonderful but do not do well in my water. I have tried buffering, but I seem to always have an issue. The Central Americans have been fine with buffered water. I hope that success carries over to mbuna.

I think the trick for me enjoying the tank would be to pick a species that would court females often. Demansoni sound like the ticket.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> I loved my mbuna tank in the 125G. I had:
> 20 demasoni
> 5 acei
> 5 yellow labs
> ...


Is there any negatives to keeping multiple species? I know overcrowding is part of the equation, but do the more aggressive species prevent other species from spawning? I keep reading demasoni are pretty rough. I'm not too worried about having multiple species if it will cause headaches. Do multiple males still color up? Sorry, I have just not kept these fish.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Yes it is, and thanks.

Bought the rocks at a landscape yard. They're called Aqua Blue Boulders. It's a dense granite. The 2 largest are probably 50 lbs or heavier. Not sure on height, but one is at least 12."

I don't have much Tang experience, but New World spawns are awesome. The courting, defending, spawn itself, protecting and moving fry around... so cool. Mbuna are totally different. Spawns are generally quick, but a flurry of activity. Day to day there is constant action. Sometimes, too much. I have several vids of Malawi spawning. No demasoni, but it's all the same, really.

Most mbuna that I've kept spawn with very little effort on the keeper. Clean water is pretty much all it takes. And they'll start very early. If you want frequent courting just load up on females. Even without a lot of females the males will be 'in the mood.' Which is why these type of fish can sometimes be a handful.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Multiple males may fight and may not color up. Just play it by ear, and remove anyone who causes problems.

Some species seem intimidated (like my hara did not spawn with demasoni in the tank) but really...who wants 20 babies every six weeks from the 20 females you will have in a 72" tank??? This is the exception, not the rule.

Substitute 1m:4f maingano for the demasoni. The acei might not spawn as often, but the zebras and socolofi will go to town.

Demasoni are only for those who will not accept substitutes and willing to do extra work to keep them. Once you learn to keep them healthy (they are susceptible to bloat) the main drawback is more than the usual number of times you have to completely tear down the tank.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I think what I may try is buying some breeding groups of a few species I like and toss them into my 400g pond for the summer. I would think I would have some extra come fall?

Buying 20-30 demasoni would be a lot of $$


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I mis-spoke...1m:7f maingano.

So go with the species that don't need the big numbers...buy 8 of each.

I would expect the same problem in a pond as a tank. The bigger the container...the more fish I buy to fill it with the demasoni.

Get 12 and spawn them in a 55G to grow a colony. You will need an outlet for a lot of males though.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

If you can source them from a local breeder they're usually about $5 a pop. Maybe less, especially in bulk. At least in my area. Even Tang prices are low compared to retailers/online vendors.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

What about Cynotilapia afra? Jalo Reef is really nice.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Iggy, you live in a cichlid-rich area. Local breeders here in the NYC area might have a couple of species and there are some excellent ones and some not so good but well-intentioned ones.

Jalo Reef males are fabulous. Females are drab. 1m:4f. That's why my alternative to demasoni would be maingano...same blue and females are just as colorful. I do like species with colorful females.

Or saulosi but then substute white labs. With saulosi and a 125G I'd try to get 3 or more males to color up.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I don't like yellow fish for some reason. Saulosi females look to be SUPER yellow.

So if only one male colors up, does that mean he would be the only one displaying/spawning/etc?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> Iggy, you live in a cichlid-rich area. Local breeders here in the NYC area might have a couple of species and there are some excellent ones and some not so good but well-intentioned ones.


So how much are fry on the east coast from hobbyists/breeders?

Ahud-
When I've had multiple males in a tank they had all been interested in the girls, but on only one occasion(Labeotropheus Fuelleborni) did I have more than one male doing the spawning. In some instances the sub dominant males dare not even display to a female, or they were met with a thrashing from the dominant male. With something like Maingano or Dems, the males are always 'colored.' But the dominant will be more vivid in markings and coloration.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Iggy,

Is there a way to get multiple males displaying/breeding? Maybe a less aggressive species? Demasoni are very nice looking, but they from what I can find they are super aggressive.

I'm torn on switching. As always, the inhabitants of my current tank heard I was thinking of ditching them and decided to spawn. I have three pairs of F1 Archocentrus multispinosa "limon" fussing with each other. Its an entertaining tank when they decide to spawn at the same time. But I still want a change of pace.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They can be as low as $2 from a beginner hobbyist, but the hobbyists that have developed reputations get the same as the online vendors.

Also many of the locals use the online vendor stock, so they will advertise their source.

Ahud, labs and acei (the peaceful ones) have males the same color as females regardless.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

DJ,

So pretty much any species, one male is going to be the main show with the rest just trying to blend in? Interesting. I guess I never appreciated just how aggressive mbuna are.

Maingano are very nice. If one male is going to be the only one doing the breeding and courting, then I would rather go that route then the 20+ demasoni.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No...I am not being clear. With monomorphic mbuna like maingano, yellow labs, socolofi, red zebras, acei, etc. females are just as colorful as males. Having one male helps manage aggression, but all 8 maingano are going to be zooming around the tank as he pursues them for spawning. He can easily have 3 females holding at once...even 7 females, but 3 females holding at once is common.

Same for all of the above...the one males keeps all the females on the move as he will be trying to spawn with all of them 24/7...even if he does not succeed except occasionally.

The females can also defend their own territories so it's a constant 3-ring circus.

Yes maingano are a nice alternative to get the bright blue.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks DJ!

That answer actually clears up a lot of my questions.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I decided to modify my current tank instead of taking the Malawi plunge. I am going to bookmark this thread for future reference. I have a future malawi stock list to try! I appreciate everybodys help.

Iggy,

You ultimately made me decide to stick with what I have. I kept coming back to your 75 gallon aquascape. I am going to try to create your tank with a "Costa Rica" touch added to it. I just love that tank. Great looking, but still providing plenty of spawning territories. I wish I could fly you here to create it in my tank.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sorry for the late reply. Thanks a lot ahud. Much appreciated. I'm moving in less than a week, and the tank is coming down. The scape has changed very little, just different occupants. I'm moving that design to a 6' tank, and I'm going to try and keep the main focal points. Probably going to be difficult. Glad to hear you're sticking with the rainbows. My wife wants a CA tank somewhere in the new house. Rainbows would be a good choice, but I do not see them offered much. At least lately.

Hmmm... Never been to South Carolina :wink:


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I'm going to throw a pair of them in a 150g stock tank to get some fry. Let me know :wink: 
I'm a big fan of rainbows. This Costa Rica strain is a little more aggressive than the aquarium strain from what I have seen. I think rainbows are arguably the perfect cichlid, but I am biased. Every time I sell them, I miss them and buy a another group.

I would like to see a picture of your 6' tank. I try to stick to the rule of thirds, but the middle of the tank always looks odd. I wish I had your talent for the natural look.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Cool. PM me if you raise some up for distributing. I'll have tons of room in the new place. I'm serious.

I do have a couple 6' tanks up now p, but with standard granite. I'll snap some photos in the next couple of days and upload it to the 'Tanks' section. Maybe. Got lots to do...

I generally follow the thirds as as well. And I have no real talent, lol. After the super heavy rocks are set I crack a few beers and just get creative. Buy more rocks than you could ever use, that way you are not forced to use anything you don't really want to. And choose your large rocks that stand on their own. That way you position them in any direction you want for the desired effect. Grab plenty of smaller stones to place at the base of your main structures.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks man.

I should have some. I typically have really good results getting fry from summer tubs. I think of it as the lazy man method. SC has more than its fair share of mosquitos, and the fry grow quick eating the larva.

I think part of my aquascaping problem is I never buy large enough rocks. In big tanks, it looks like the nice looking tanks contain some really BIG rock.. Unfortunately, river rock seems to be the most common option I have at local landscape yards. I'm actively looking for rock now. I try to balance how it looks with ease of maintenance (I like to have space between the back glass wall and the rock) and territories. I find it really difficult to create a good looking tank that works for breaking up territories. But I am rambling.

Enjoyed your turtle tank video. I never realized box turtles were so cool.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I like keeping that area between the glass and scape as well. I think it helps with overall water flow.

Glad you discovered box turtles! That video goes on forever.... Now that's rambling


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