# How to make a sump out of a 40g breeder?



## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm thinking about making a sump for my 125 cichlid tank because I dont think my fx5 and eheim 2236 are going to be enough as my boys get bigger. I already have a 40 that is just laying around. My tank is not drilled for a sump so no idea where to start. I have looked at some diy sumps on here, but they look really complicated and got me even more confused. I have a whole bunch of eheim substrate pro laying around that I would like to use.


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

You will have to design the flow pattern that you are after. Do you want a refugium (substrate?)? What kind of bio media do you intend to use? Do you want to use filter socks or trays and a drip plate? Depending on a few of those choices, you will have to get baffles cut and silicone them in accordingly.

You can DIY an overflow out of PVC (although quite unsightly), but you will have to buy a pump.

I'm in the process of designing a new sump system too... opcorn:


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

I just redid my wet dry to add more bio media. When you say sump are you wanting a wet dry set up or are you just planning to have the bio media submerged? My advice would be to set it up as a wet dry trickle filter, as the bio filtration is far superior to anything with submerged media because the bacteria have better access to the oxygen required to convert ammonia and nitrite.

A very easy way to do it is to use 5 gallon buckets, and pot scrubbers or bio balls. If the sump is 12.5 inches front to back the bucket can rest right on the rim of the tank which should allow the bottom of the bucket to be just at or above the water line. Here's a link to the 5 gallon bucket DIY filter that I used http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-filter/111.asp

The above with some kind of overflow, a return pump, and hoses is all you need. You can DIY the overflow like stated above with some pvc pipe, or use one of the store bought ones, which I prefer. A nice tip is to use some eggcrate in the drip pan. You can cut some 1/2 inch pieces of pvc pipe to raise the eggcrate above the holes in the drip pan which will allow the water to flow better through your mechanical filters. I'm using a 100 micron pad with filter floss on top of it and it traps waste very well, keeping it out of the bio media.

Oh one more thing I should mention. I drilled a few 1 1/4 inch holes in the side of the bucket about 1/2 way up to allow better gas exchange. I think the way the guy in the DIY article did it without the holes has the wet dry section sealed up too tightly.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

After looking at the link you sent me, I dont see how its any better then a canister? When I think of a sump, I think of several different compartments. I have a lot to learn...


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## Fisch180 (Jan 26, 2013)

I was wondering what happens if my return pump would fail? Whats to stop the water from siphoning into my sump and overflowing it?


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

MandyBlue said:


> After looking at the link you sent me, I dont see how its any better then a canister? When I think of a sump, I think of several different compartments. I have a lot to learn...


Technically, a sump is just an extra body of water in your system that provides volume. The bells and whistles you speak of are just that. That's why a sump is so nice though, you can customize it to do just what you want... A place to hold your heater or extra media for cycling in new tanks, or a protein skimmer and reactors for a marine tank. Even a spot to put trouble makers or new fry. It's just what you want or need. It can be simple or complex. That's the fun part! The basics are plumbing to get your water down and back up and a pump. Even a filter is not considered part of the sump. Most people do drop their wet/dry or the like in it though, because it is such a nice spot :thumb:



Fisch180 said:


> Whats to stop the water from siphoning into my sump and overflowing it?


Buy a check valve!


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Fisch180 said:


> I was wondering what happens if my return pump would fail? Whats to stop the water from siphoning into my sump and overflowing it?


That all depends how far down you outflow by w/e means is in the main tank. Being gravity fed it won't drain past the drain level. Overflows, bulkhead drain, standpipe. So as long as your sump is large enough to hold the above level you should be good which you can calculate by volume in the main tank bottom of drain to the rim, and compare that number against the empty volume in the sump above the water line.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

If you Google sump calculator there's a few really good ones out there like reefcentrals that can also tell you what outflow size you need for the gph your after. Sorry for dbl post, the edit timer ran out lol


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

MandyBlue said:


> After looking at the link you sent me, I dont see how its any better then a canister? When I think of a sump, I think of several different compartments. I have a lot to learn...


The reason it is better than a canister is the way the bio media is contained above the water line. Water showers down through the media exposing the bacteria to mostly open air which has a much higher concentration of oxygen that can ever be dissolved in water. The bacteria need the oxygen to convert ammonia and nitrite and for this reason a wet dry does a better job of oxidizing these compounds. That's why they have been used for so long on saltwater tanks as many of those fish are very sensitive to any amount of ammonia/nitrite.

As far as the design I posted not containing baffles, the need for them is eliminated by having the drip tray above the bio media. Typically the first set of baffles in a sump are designed to hold the mechanical filtration, here the drip tray preforms that function. It's a very simple design which costs a lot less and still does the same job. As was said above you can make it as complicated and expensive as you want, but I like the simplicity of this design. Makes it much easier to rinse the bio media if needed by just lifting the bucket out.

For the issue of the return line siphoning back into the sump and causing a flood, I would not recommend a check valve. The easiest way to set it up is to use one of those U shaped black plastic returns. They have a swivel nozzle that spreads the flow out and after you get everything running, and determine where your water line in the display tank will be, simply drill a small hole in the return just below the water surface. Now when the pump is shut off and the water level drops air enters the hole breaking the siphon.


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## fishinagain (Jan 22, 2012)

No mention was made of why a check valve is not the best option, if the problem is electric and the pump comes back on does it restart itself because of pressure or does the pump overwork to potential burn out. Does the out line get automatic restart due to not emptying or is it a manual restart as well?


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

fishinagain said:


> No mention was made of why a check valve is not the best option, if the problem is electric and the pump comes back on does it restart itself because of pressure or does the pump overwork to potential burn out. Does the out line get automatic restart due to not emptying or is it a manual restart as well?


Not following you well but I'll try to answer. A check valve can fail and I don't feel comfortable trusting one. They also restrict flow, as the valve needs pressure to keep it open. Regardless the return is usually not very far under the water surface and with a large enough sump, like a 40 on a 125 gallon, it's not likely to overflow. Still drilling a small hole like I said above stops the siphon very quickly. Mine breaks the siphon in less than 5 seconds, and in my 20 gallon sump the water only rises a few inches.

The pump in the sump is always submersed so when the power comes back on it just starts pumping water again. The over flows are also designed to only allow a small amount of water to flow out of the tank when the pump is off, but it keeps its siphon so when the pump is back on water starts flowing again.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Just jumping in but typically a longer foot print tank makes for a better sump. On a 125, I would look for a 33L or 55 assuming your stand is tall enough. This is especially true if you desire a section for filter socks. 36" can go quickly when you consider that you need 12" for the bio chamber and another 8-10" for the filter socks. Once you add in bafflles to protect the pump, there isn't much room left. You have to think about spillover capacity too.

As mentioned in the post above me, if relying on check valves as siphon breaks, get ready for a lot of water on your floor - eventually. Not a question of "if" IMO. Will happen when least suspected too.

Google siphon break failure on aquarium sump, water damage..

glass-holes.com sells overflow kits. Glass cutter, bulkhead, the works..


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## royrusso (Aug 13, 2012)

I wouldn't use a check valve anywhere in sump plumbing. Check valves fail and they also do constrict water flow. If you're concerned about water draining back in to your sump and flooding, then you need to run tests to determine the optimal height of the water in the sump, before and after a power outage. Take a sharpie and mark the water lines of each. When doing a water change, shut everything down, and only fill to the appropriate line.

Here's a pic of my 40g breeder sump. It feed 1 75g and 4 20g-L. If you look to the top right of the sump, you'll see sharpie markings.


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