# Refugium Plants



## fusion (Jun 21, 2012)

I have a small space in my new sump, was thinking of putting some plants in and need some ideas how to go about it.
Its an 83gal tank, a 25gal sump, the space i could use for plants is 9 1/2" x 14" with a 7" water depth.
What would be a suitable substrate in there and any plant ideas?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What is the purpose of the plants? How much space above the sump do you have and how much light?


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## fusion (Jun 21, 2012)

Was thinking to help the nitrates, i have 24" inside height of the stand and the sump tank is 16" high, i have a few 24" light fittings with a selection of tubes, ill have to dig them out and check what i have


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## fusion (Jun 21, 2012)

I have
24" 20w Aqua-Glo T8 18000K and a 24" Pen-Plax 20w T12


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd do vallisneria (mine were not jungle vals) and switch the bulbs to 6700K. Three inches of flourite with root tabs after they are growing well. I'd use 3" terra cotta pots.

You will also need to test nitrates and phosphates daily until you get a balance so you stay around 15ppm on the nitrates (dose if it goes below 10ppm) and keep phosphates at 1pmm (I never had phosphates naturally, I always had to dose).


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## fusion (Jun 21, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> I'd do vallisneria (mine were not jungle vals) and switch the bulbs to 6700K. Three inches of flourite with root tabs after they are growing well. I'd use 3" terra cotta pots.
> 
> You will also need to test nitrates and phosphates daily until you get a balance so you stay around 15ppm on the nitrates (dose if it goes below 10ppm) and keep phosphates at 1pmm (I never had phosphates naturally, I always had to dose).


Ty, how do i dose for nitrates and phosphates? what to use? ( im normally battling nitrates  )
Do you mean 3" pots instead of planting in a substrate?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Did you say tank is 16" but you only have 7" depth for plants? Might not be enough for vallisneria.

Yes, pots, no substrate. Easier to work with.

You buy nitrates and phosphates (bottles or dry) and dose them. That is the problem with nitrate-eating plants...they eat it but they also need it. Once they run out they will start to die and you will get cyanobacteria.

It is all a balance. Too much is bad but too little is bad too.


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## eutimio (Aug 22, 2012)

DJ is it bad if i added a bunch of plants from the beginning if i dont have nitrates in the water?Also i see you suggest to go with the root tabs once the plants are starting to grow but i already put the tabs in the substrate.Should i start adding phosphates and nitrates while the tank is cycling?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It depends on which plants. Some like vallisneria are very fast growers and will die if they do not have enough nitrates. Java fern and other slow growers, different story.

Regarding whether you have to add nitrates and phosphates, you have to test. And if the plant has not started growing yet, it will have no use for the fertilizers. Even with terrestrial plants you may wait six weeks or so to fertilize a new plant.

eutimio...leave the root tabs and see what happens.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> ... Once they run out they will start to die and you will get cyanobacteria.
> 
> It is all a balance. Too much is bad but too little is bad too.


I did some digging into cyanobacteria. Everything I could find said that it resulted from poor water quality and too many nutrients... nothing related to Nitrates being too low. How do low Nitrates encourage cyanobacteria? Is there a parallel effect to some other nutrients that causes them to spike?

... or is it that your plants die which the cyanobacteria then feed on?

I'm asking because I have Vallesnaria growing in a 75g Tang tank and have zero nitrates as far as I can tell... and I don't want the tank to go sideways lol.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

You still need water changes to replenish the minerals in the water. I would not worry about nitrates being too low. You could just add more fish.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

Is your main tank planted?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The way it was explained to me is this:

When plants start to die from lack of nutrients, they leak plant fluids into the water. This is what the cynobacteria lives on. Among other things...but if nitrates are zero you don't have poor water quality...so what's causing it?

Like a charm if I get the nitrate and nitrite into balance the plants recover and cyanobacteria goes away.

This only happened to me with vallisneria and at the time it grew like a foot in a week or two. I have since switched to slower growing plants and I don't dose anything.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Okay, that makes sense.

The tank is moderately planted with Vallisneria, and there's a decent amount of lace rock growing some nice looking algae. I don't have measurable nitrates, and my plants aren't dying - though they aren't growing as fast as they used to.

I may be close to the optimum balance. I might try removing a small plant or two and see if the nitrates start to rise. I suspect if they do the remaining plants will adapt.

If I do strike a balance with Nitrates, what would you recommend for water changes in order to replenish minerals?

I don't mean to hijack this thread, though it's probably useful information. I posted a separate thread a few days ago here: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=250914


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## fusion (Jun 21, 2012)

Dawg2012 said:


> I don't mean to hijack this thread, though it's probably useful information. I posted a separate thread a few days ago here: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=250914


Not a prob :thumb: All good info


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

If you want a jungle effect coming out under your tank in a refugium, you could try some pothos house plants. As long as they have some light on them under the tank they would probably work. Just remove tem from the soil and completely clean te roots of all the dirt then place the root in the water. Otherwise if you just want the nitrate removal and don't really care how it looks row some moss in there or some java fern or anubias. None of these need any soil or fertilizers. Just a little light.


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