# 50 GAL tank



## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

This is my 50 gal, i really dont know what direction im heading in nor do i know what direction i wanna head in (suggestions welcomed), this will be my 1st ever cichlid tank/overall..


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i wanted to put 3 clown loches, 3 peacocks, 4 yellow labs (after hearing my tank is too small for oscars) and 
if you have any suggestions as to what i should stock.
the tank is cycling right now... 
ANY pointers or tips at all would be greatly appreciated GREATLY!
thanks -jasson


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

what filter are you using?


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

i am usuing an aquaclear for 55 (200), but im thinking about getting another because my water is still cloudy 3 days later.


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

There are many possibilities for your 50 gal, if you want some really bright colors, look at fish from lake malawi, if you care less about color, and want fish with some very interesting behavior, there is a lot of fish from tanganyika.


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## Swerved (Mar 9, 2011)

Kitty looks anxious.. :wink:


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

Ya! haha that cat is like, "Ahhhh, I see potential; The potential for a snack!"

For a 50 gallon tank, you have a lot of options! I love Oscars, because of their personality, their looks, their crazy eating habits, and pretty much everything else.

Honestly, I'd go for a mid sized South American/Central American tank if I were you. Hmmm, if I had that tank, here's what I'd put:
-1 Turquoise Severum
-1 Black Convict
-8 Buenos Aries

The Severum is a somewhat shy species, and it likes the top.
Buenos Aires are pretty tough, and get to a good size near 3 inches, and likes the middle of the tank
The Convict is a little more aggressive, and gain personalities like Oscar. They usually like the bottom

If you'd like a little more peaceful tank, maybe go for an Angel based setup.
-2 Angels
-Trio of Swordtails (I like Neon Swordtails best)
-School of hardy and colorful tetras, that wont fit in your Angel's mouths
-6 Emerald or Green Corys.

You'd be suprised at how much personality Angels actually have! Mine beg like puppies, and like to play peek-a-boo with me. Swordtail fry (if they breed) would be snacks for the Angels (which is very good!). Tetras will just give the tank a little more liveliness, and color. The Corys would eat all the stuff that the other fish missed, but you should give them sinking food as well.

Look up "Aqadvisor" in Google. You'll get a cool stocking calculator there. It may be a little inaccurate sometimes, but it will give you warnings on what not to put together.

GOOD LUCK! Post some pics when you decide! :dancing:


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

*scarhbar* That's a really neat tool, but every fish i chose it gave me a warning and too many red signs so I am going to wing it here.

1x frontosa 
3x thropheus duboisi
3x clown loach 
1x convict

 i hope that will work? if not correct me where i can make some adjustments and what fish really shouldn't be in my tank at all if its really that bad.

thanks for all the help guys.
also i now have two 50 gal aqua clear filters 

im still in the cycle process, but i will post pics when i get my fish.


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

I would not advise putting a frontosa in that tank.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

shellies215 said:


> I would not advise putting a frontosa in that tank.


+1

They get too big.

I've also heard Tropheus really isn't for rookie cichlid keepers.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

*Glaneon* rookie? it don't understand how much more can there be to keeping fish

maintaining all the tank peramiters at the fishes likings.
and doing your water changes also to the fishes likings...

if you could explain further... 
I am extremly inlove with frontosas and tropheus.
what are an "easier" group of cichlids to take care of?


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

If you want frontosa, get a 240 gallon tank. If you want to try tropheus, the duboise are one of the easier species to keep, but I would switch the gravel out for sand, get another 100 lbs of rocks like the ones you have, and start with 8 duboise, forget the loaches and convict.


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

to be clear about my last post, I mean duboise are easier compared to other tropheus species, not easier compared to other cichlids


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

*Shellies215* I like those alot as well... why can't i get clown loaches with them?


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

clown loaches get fairly large, and like the tropheus species, do well in groups. 8 is the min. size group I would recommend for tropheus, and that fully stocks a 50 gal. Actually, many people would say that tank is too small for 8, but I think it can be done if you keep up on the water quality.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

For a 50, true.

I know a friend that has a 10" loach in his 125 (which, is a different story), gets along famously.


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## lucrent (Dec 2, 2007)

When I set up my tanks, I try to reduce as much as possible the amount of chemicals and buffers I have to add to the water in order to maintain the water chemistry to the fish liking and reduce my work load. In addition more stable water equals better fish health.

If you are going to go with primarily african cichlids, then I would recommended a substrate and rocks that will maintain alkalinity. In a 55G I would recommend mbuna especially yellow labs and also peacocks, and a sydonostis. They are a lot of fun and your mbunas will breed. The only thing is to avoid WWIII in your tank, I would add significantly more rocks.

If you are going to stay away from a high ph water and keep your current substrate, I would recommended clown loaches, angles and severums. If you can find one I would go for a gold severum, rather than a green one (my personal preference). All of these grow large, so you can can't get too many with a 55G tank.

I have had both similar setups in a 55G and it worked great.

I would stay from the frontosa (I love them), for three reasons, they are happiest in larger groups, and a single one will likely be stressed out and not eat. The also grow very large. The Tropheus are great but very challenging. I have been at this for years, and I'm not sure I would get a Tropheus tank.

When setting up your tank, also think about what mood you want it to be, with mbuna, movement will be fast, there will be fights and stress. With angels and severums things will be slow and gracious.

The other thing I would consider is adding to your filter. I think yours is a HOB, I would add a good canister filter. The more filtration the better not just for fish health but also maintenance work.

Hope this helps.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

*lucrent*
Thanks man, i kind of came to that decision last night, yellow labs and peacocks with 1 pleco.
i am for sure going to add ALOT more hiding spots 

actually my filtration is really good, i now have two 50 gallon HOB filters, so i should be good with filtration.

i also had a question.. 
when i do a water change, would it be a good thing if i put cycled water from someone else's tank? to help the cycle process along?


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## lucrent (Dec 2, 2007)

You can use water from another tank (disease free), that will certainly help, even better though, and easier to transport, would be some of his filter material, unrinsed, that you could place inside your HOB filter.

If you will be going with african cichlids, then you'll need something to maintain your PH. I would suggest some texas holey rock, you can read more from this article.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/tx_holey_rock.php

I would recommend that you also read this article

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/l ... _setup.php

before you get started, it has all the info you need about PH, buffers, water changes etc...

For faster growth and happy cichlids, change 30% your water weekly.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

lucrent said:


> I would recommended a substrate and rocks that will maintain alkalinity


I used to recommend the same thing thinking it was more natural, less of a shock during a change. Unfortunately with our water change schedule (most do 50%/week) it doesn't give the substrate/rocks time to leach into the water.

It's so much cheaper (and effective on multiple levels) to just add a few tablespoons of baking soda (~1tbsp/15 gallons if your tap water is roughly 7.0) to get to pH of 8.2. It also raises your KH (to keep your pH from dropping).

The water itself will be of minimal (almost no) use to helping cycle the tank - as Lucrent said though, getting filter material is great.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

so since i will be keeping yellow labs and peacocks...

i should keep my ph between 7.0 and 8.0? 
what about the rest of my tank peramiters?
i know my temp is good at 76 and my water is still kind of hard
where should the rest be?


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

What is your ph at now?


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

7.6


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

7.6 is fine - but unless your tap has a good amount of KH, then the pH will drop once fish start pooping in there.

so feel free to add maybe half the baking soda... see how that goes for a while.

do 1tbsp/30 gallons - see how your pH & KH look after that.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

KH being what? ammonia levels?
unfortunately i do not have an ammonia test kit


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

KH is carbonate hardness, it's a buffer to prevent pH drop.

You'll want to get some test strips (to start with, maybe move to liquid later).


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

i had test strips from walmart but they sucked... the color never changed ever... 
threw them away and now im looking for a good set to buy, i saw those liquid ones but i don't want to be a scientist


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## ZeNozzle (Feb 28, 2011)

liquid kits are easier to read than the test strips. they just take longer to read but you also don't have to wory about missing that window of opportunity for the acurate reading in case something comes up.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Get yourself a liquid test kit, API makes a decent one and they're very easy to use.
You need to be able to test your water for toxins that could kill your fish.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

*GTZ* you make a bold point, they aren't all that expensive anyways... 
is their a certain one you would recommend?


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## ZeNozzle (Feb 28, 2011)

get the master test kit it has everything but KH and GH tests. You may have to visit your LFS to find those two I had to visit a store that delt mainly in marine fish for them.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

just purchased it from amazon brand new for 20 bucks  should be here friday, i will most likely order the KH and GH test tomorrow they come together in a pack.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

My issue is the pH & nitrate tests are hard to distinguish between levels.

Almost worthless in my opinion.

Wish it wasn't. My wife got me the kit for Christmas.

I still prefer the strips (Jungle 6-in-1)


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

what? really?  hopefully its a useful kit and not a big let down... i am color blind so i might have trouble distinguishing the colors, but i will have a family member take a look.
thats actually why i hate the strips.. im color blind so its hard to tell if they change at all.


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## ZeNozzle (Feb 28, 2011)

If you have trouble reading the liquid tests keep the strips for backup to help learn the subtleties of the tints. I hold the vials up to bright CFL lights to get the color and compare it to the color card.

TBH though the colors for nitrate that are hard to distinguish between are 5, 10, and 20 ppm which are no-no levels of Nitrates anyways.

As far as the high range PH for some reason the colors for 7.4 and 8.0 are similar even though 7.8 has an orange tint to it.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

Oh oh... colorblind... that could definitely be a challenge.

I've held it up to a few different types (and brightness) of lights, halogen flood seems to be the best - and I'm usually REALLY aware of slight color differences (I'm really anal about computer monitors, etc).
I figure if I have a hard time distinguishing, others may too.

5-20 on nitrates are not no-no's.. that's the good range.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

yea i can't tell shades of color unless its a solid color... not some blend... but like i said my fish buddie [luis] lives down the street and that guy has eagle eyes! hahaha im sure he will be nice enough to come over and do the reading for me


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

i also wanted to know how long i should let my tank cycle.. *** been cycling with minnows for about a week now, how long till i can add fish?


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

You'll want to read up on the nitrogen cycle.
In short, you need to see: (it's a cycle, not a timed thing)
ammonia
then nitrite
then little ammonia
then nitrate
then little nitrite
then more nitrate
then no ammonia, nitrite

you should only see nitrates whenever you test.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

Wow thanks Glaneon, you have been extremely help and so has everyone else thanks alot for all of your quick responses.

now regarding the yellow labs, my brother said he had some wen i was younger and he said they all killed each other, but i dont think he had ANY hiding places... *** made a bunch of PVC caves  should i be worried there all gonna go at each others necks?


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## Chunkanese (Feb 4, 2011)

Yep clowns can get up to 12 inches. If you wanted a loach similar to the clown skunk loaches stay around 4 inches and look awesome. Most mbuna would work, smaller haps and peacocks as well. Keep them 5 inches and smaller. Think of what interests you then find out suitable tankmates.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

So my test arrived last night
did all the test and here are my results..

ph 8.0
ammonia .25ppm
nitrite 5.0ppm
nitrate 80ppm

i know my nitrite is high... its been about 3 weeks now... i don't know does everything look ok or am i in trouble? 
I am going to order my GH and KH test later today....


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## Jojo103 (Mar 18, 2011)

240 for a front really? I thought it was like 70. Maybe 150 for adult? Not saying I know better, I am kind of asking. Is that for a large group of them? I acquired one with a 72 gallon tank, I sold him he was easily 21". Very happy/ friendly.. I actually miss him  Thought I might get one again for my 150...


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

As long as you don't have fish in there, keep cycling (ie, only add a little ammonia every 2-3 days). once you have 0 nitrite & 0 ammonia after 24 hours of adding ammonia, you're good to add fish.

Do a 25% water change to get your nitrate under control (only so you don't have to change so much before you add fish).


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

21" or 12"

21" for a Frontosa would be a bit LARGE.


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## Jojo103 (Mar 18, 2011)

He was huge, with a giant pleco. Not sure if I still have pictures, it was 5-6 years ago. I measured through the glass. So maybe visually distorted, but the guy who bought him said he was so large and the huge hump made him believe it was a male, he was looking one to breed. I knew nothing about them at the time, I was only interested in the tank. Definitely why I am here learning a bit.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

*Glaneon*
i have actually been cycling with minnows since i started the tank on the 4th of this month... mabey because minnows are dirty?

so should i go ahead and add ammonia? or let it cycle as is?


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

Nah, use the minnows - with that nitrite I wouldn't expect them to last much longer, but they'll serve their purpose (that's why I a lot of folks prefer to use ammonia rather than poison fish).


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

i have a Chinese algae eater in there, should i be worried about him?
my water changes would help at all to save my poor minnows (*** gotten attached)


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

yes, do a 50% water change.
I would take the algae eater out (how did you have algae that fast anyway?)


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

I don't have algae or at least i don't think i do cuz hes always sucking on the rocks... doesn't really hide..

50? dang haha okay i did a 5 gallon yesterday... so 25 gallon water change today? holy jesus sounds like alot of work... will do though..


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

once your tank is established you'll probably be doing 50% every week.

you want to eventually keep your nitrates under 40ppm, most folks here will tell you 20ppm.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

Added 10 cichlids just yesterday after my huge water change
4 yellow labs
1 red zeba
and idk what the other 5 are but they are blue with black stripes they are all juvies
..

tested my water today
temp- 76
ph- 8.0
ammonia- 0ppm
nitrite- 0ppm
nitrate- between 0 and 5 ppm
i know my nitrate should be around 20 to 40ppm, how do i get it to go back up?

i will post pics soon so someone can help me identify my cichlids (only because im a noob) if not im sure i would know what they are.

all help, comments, concerns and advice is greatly appreciated
thanks in advance 
-jasson


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

** re-did my nitrate test since i forgot you have to shake bottle #2 vigorously for 30 seconds and shake the test tube for one minuet vigorously...
its at 20ppm, so my tank is finally cycled


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

20-40 ppm for nitrate is the MAX you want. lower is better, you keep it low by doing your water changes. Having a lower nitrate reading can also cut down the amount of algae that grows in your tank. I keep all my tanks at 5ppm or less.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

I was reading the API test booklet and it says 20-40ppm is an ideal number for a nitrate reading..
well ill do 15 gallon water changes to keep it low from now on  but i think i like it at 20ppm


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

yeah, I've had a tank at 200ppm nitrate for a week or two (oops), none of the fish (or turtles) cared. Would I keep it that way longer? Heck no. (even with this high nitrate tank, I don't have significant algae issues - slightly more than my 20-40 tank, but nothing I would ever consider a problem).

But 20-40 is safe.
20 is probably optimal without doing 3/week 50% water changes.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

also i have a 25 tall gal tank that i just started, my question is on my 55 gal i have two 50 AC filters can i take the sponge from one of them and put it in the 25 gal tank? it also has a 50 AC..
but my main question is, if i put the sponge from the 25 will it kick start a mini cycle or something?


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

normally, it is good to use a filter from a cycled tank to "jump start" another tank, but since your 50 is fairly new, I wouldn't mess with it yet to help with the other tank.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

can i squeeze the living heck out of my white sponge from one of my AC on my 55, and let the white sponge from my 25 soak all the good stuff up?


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

As *shellies215* said, no, it's not advisable because your 50 gal. is still brand new. 
If you're in a hurry, use the fishless cycle for the 29 gal. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/fishless_cycling.php


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

Im in no hurry.. it would just be nice if it was cycled quickly... 
but i already have guppies in there cycling... 
what can i put in this tank? that doesnt get to big?
rams?


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