# Ceramice Cave under construction



## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

This is my latest Ceramic Rock Cave project. Still have to finish the basic construction (getting close after a couple of days work on it), add some detail, wait for it to dry, bisque fire, apply glaze, and glaze fire. Lengthy process. LOL I'm used to throwing a pot in a few minutes and setting it aside to dry. I was told on here that my first attempt at rock cave building looked like something on Sesame Street and after looking at the pictures I have to agree. So I'm trying to go for something that looks more rock like. As with the others, this has a channel in the back for the filter intake to be hidden. For this one I have made a place at the bottom to put a 12" bubbler and built channels into the whole construction to disperse the bubbles to different locations. We'll see if it actually works. Thought the affect would be cool. All of he caves have at least 2 entrance holes so a sub can escape an aggressor. It will finish out at 16" wide, 14" deep, and 13" high. I'm making it for my breeder/grow out 75, but if it ends up looking significantly better (in my wife's opinion) I will swap out one of the caves in my show tank.

I welcome any comments, criticisms, opinions, or suggestions.


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## R-DUB (Jun 3, 2007)

Love the piece! Looks very nice. What about hiding the intake holes for the filter tower? I think with your talent and a few more rocks/stumps the tower could become invisible. Very cool build. I am jealous. More pics please!!
:drooling: :thumb: opcorn:


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Thank you for the compliments AND the advice. I'll see what I can do. My tanks have a painted black back and with the other builds the intake holes are all but invisible. Looking at these pics again I do see your point, though. I plan to post more pics as I go along. Thanks again.


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## maddyfish (Jul 23, 2004)

I like. Looks kind of like the city from the planet of the apes


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks Maddyfish. Maybe I drew the inspiration from my inner ape.  I was a big fan of those movies. Planet of the Apes housing is a LOT better than the Dr. Suess build of my first attempts.


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Here are pics of the completed build. It will take several days for it to slowly dry. I have to control the drying so it doesn't develop cracks. When completely dry I will bisque fire them (fire to cone 04 - about 1900 degrees and takes 13 hours to fire then about the same for the kiln to cool down). This hardens the clay so it can be handled but will still allow the glaze to soak into the partially fired clay. Once the glaze is applied I will do the glaze fire (cone 6, about 2150 degrees which fully vitrifies the clay into ceramic and turns the raw glaze powder to a glasslike shell). I'll post pics of the process at each step if anyone is interested. Otherwise I'll just post the finished project.


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## DanDee (Mar 7, 2008)

NICE!

opcorn:


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## Frazee86 (Aug 1, 2010)

looks awesome kinda reminds of the Dr Sues Who Ville but little bit darker....just curious how much does something like that weigh?


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## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

That looks great !

What are you using for armature , or is it just all solid clay ?
I have been having a hard time lately trying to find a way to build larger structures for the aquarium without making everything solid clay which gets expensive if you use polymer clays. 
I have used wood so far but it isn't easily fit to shapes without a lot of cutting.
I thought about copper wire but then worried if I don't cover it 100% copper would eventually leech into the water. Really need to find something that is fish friendly yet strong enough to hold it together while being easy to shape.


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks for the comments again.

It is all clay, no framework, wire, or any other type of support. I did use a 90 degree wood backer while I was building to keep it square so it would sit good against the glass. Trick is to roll out the clay to a little over a 1/8" thick. I used large paint stirrers from Home Depot and a rolling pin. Build it up slow so that as the weight increases the lower part is dry enough to support it. I used somewhere in the neighborhood of 18-20 pounds of clay for this. It has dried some and I just weighed it. Came in at 16 pounds. When it is fully dry it will probably be around 10-11 pounds. Pottery clay from a pottery supplier is a LOT cheaper than polymer clays, but....it has to be fired.

I would caution against using copper wire. Even if you get it completely covered with clay it will still leach. ALL clays are porous to some extent even if fired properly. The suppliers typically provide "absorption" ratings for their clays. I've never seen one less than about 1/2%. If there is ANY absorption that means water is getting into the pottery and will contact the copper....and leach it back out to the water.


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

After looking at this more I'm thinking Frazee86 is correct. Does look like a sinister version of Who'ville. I'm still going to fire it up, but I think it will be for my grow out tank. I'll have to keep working on design for a decent rock like structure that actually looks natural. I'm thinking less height. My fish really don't use the higher level caves on the other builds much anyway.


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Here's the latest pics of the cave. It has been bisque fired and the raw glaze is painted on. Ready to go in the kiln for the final firing. Hope it comes out looking good. Won't know until late tomorrow night at the earliest.


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## Jamey (Jul 19, 2008)

this is the single most awesome idea ever! How does someone with artistic skills but no availability to a kiln do something like this? are there weaker clays that don't need to be fired but need longer drying times? are there any other ways other than a kiln to do this sorta thing?


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Jamey, there are polymer clays available. You can find them at pretty much any hobby/craft store. I've never worked with them. Don't know if they will hold the form with enough strength to support a structure of this size or not. My understanding is that once they are dry you just fire them in a regular kitchen oven. Also don't know how you would get the glazing colors on polymer. It does come in many different colors, so I supposed that is how you get color. cgmark (above post) probably has more info on that than I.


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## Frazee86 (Aug 1, 2010)

i would still use it very interesting and i'm pretty sure not many if any ppl would have anything like it makes it awesome in itself :thumb: besides gettin it look like natural work might take awhile could always get bunch rocks stack em up and kind of use that to help with the look lol


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Ok....here's the finished product. The bubble path didn't quite work out the way I had hoped. During the bisque firing an area crumbled and opened a hole where there shouldn't be one and it messed up the bubbler. Oh well....next time.


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## KiDD (Aug 20, 2010)

It looks good ..


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks Frazee. Maybe a stack of real rocks as a model is exactly what I need to do. I'll take that suggestion onboard for the next project.

As I agreed with the comment that the construction had a "dark", even ominous appearance, I decided to follow that theme with the glazing (as you can see in the finished pictures. Appropriate for the Halloween season.  Wasn't intentional while I was building it, but if you look at the right side you can see the eyes, nose, and mouth holes of a skull. LOL

BTW....the finished weight is 14-1/2 pounds.


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## Frazee86 (Aug 1, 2010)

Np but in the end all that matters is if you enjoy it and your fish like it..but if you like making that sorta of thing trial and error is always fun to :lol:


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks again, Frazee. I just finished constructing a "stump" cave. So far looks like I'm better at wood than rocks. Maybe it's because I'm a furniture designer. LOL I'll post the finished pics of that probably in about a week or so. It'll take that long at least to go through the final glaze firing. I do enjoy making these things and the fish seem to like them no matter what they look like. These are a different clay experience for me. I've always been a wheel potter. These are my first foray into handbuilding.

Oh well...just rambling here.


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## KiDD (Aug 20, 2010)

It's one of a Kind!!!


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## Kerricko (May 26, 2010)

Cool project. I might get some polymer clay and try making small caves.

Did the bubble dispersion work out the way you had planned?


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

Very nice Morgan Harris. I'm sure your fish will appreciate your "inner ape". You must have a good size kiln to handle such a project.

How much does the structure weigh?


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks, Kerricko. Go for it with the polymer. Have fun with it.

Unfortunately I must have had a trapped air pocket in the clay. When I did the bisque firing there was an area right above the main bubble path that had a mini explosion and opened up a hole. That pretty much killed most of the bubble dispersion. I did get some dispersion to the front as the 12" bubble stick extends into that area. But most of the rest of the bubbles escape through the unintended hole.


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Thank you as well, Iceblue. I have noticed a couple of the fish have been looking a bit gorilla like lately.  My electric kiln is 10 cubic feet, inside measurement 21" diameter x 21" high. So no problem fitting that in there. This structure finished out at 14-1/2 pounds. Started with around 20 pounds of clay.


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## NuFish (Aug 10, 2010)

I have been watching your thread and I think you have great talent, I just love this whole concept. I you thought about stackable pieces? A person could stack your pieces from largest on bottom and some of the pieces have connective tunnels. Your artwork will be hollow, very shapely, secure stacks that will be a big advantage over your everyday aquarium rockpile.

NuFish


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Thank you so much NuFish. Always nice when your work is appreciated. I have given your suggestion some thought previously and even more since I saw your post. I really like the idea, just have to figure out how to make it work. I'm thinking basically three sizes. Large ones for the base, then two other sizes to be the stackable units. When I say size I'm talking about height primarily. To interlock safely there needs to be consistency in the heights...at least the way I'm looking at it. Also most of the "look" from a shape standpoint will have to be on the edges as the top and bottom need to be flat so the stacking can happen in whichever direction or configuration you want. I'm also thinking each unit needs to have 4 interlocks, two on bottom and two on top. Also each unit needs at least one hole for the fish to get in and out. The interlocks could serve as the connective tunnels, but wouldn't want them to be the only entrance to and egress from the unit. A fish could get lost forever in the tunnels and not find his way out.  Also, I'm big on making sure nobody gets cornered in a one hole cave by an aggressor. Also will need small decorative pieces to cover the top interlock holes on the top units. They could be left open, but I'm planning to make the round so that the interlock can be placed in any direction. Lot to think about in planning these. They need to be functional and safe, while still looking like a rock and something that someone would actually want to see in their tank.


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## Jamey (Jul 19, 2008)

I've been following this too, as it plays into a concept I've been meditating on, as it were... I actually think it would be really cool to skip the shiny outside, cover the entire thing with silicone, and pat it down with substrate... Fill the basin areas inside each cave with substrate, maybe even making some of them more basiny so fish could dig inside, mound substrate up around it, really make it look like caves, rather than a holey rock structure...

My hypothesis from a psychological standpoint is would the fish would see that differently... possibly get substrate spawners going to the top assuming they were still on the ground... I keep V. Moorii and the male and the female both want ground level caves, but what if the caves were going up a hill and both appeared to still be ground level?


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## Morgan Harris (Sep 15, 2010)

Your concept does sound interesting, Jamey. I have no experience with shellies or other substrate spawners. Not all that much experience with mbuna's for that matter. Only been doing Africans for about 3 months. As for the shiny glaze...I've been trying to find, formulate a matte glaze that I am comfortable with being stable and non-leaching. Not an easy task, I assure you. I'm not crazy about the shiny glaze either, but that's what I have to work with at the moment. You're idea of the silicone with embeded substrate sounds cool, but not something I intend to do myself. The basin areas inside each cave for substrate is a great idea for me. Some of the caves I already have could have substrate placed in them as they are. Might try that and see how the fish react to it.

Thanks for the input.


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