# NotThePainter's 75 Gallon Mbuna build



## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

Hi!

I'm new here, very experienced with fish keeping, as is my wife, Susan, but I'm new to Mbuna. (She's not...) This thread will be to document the progress of my 75 gallon Mbuna build as well as ask the typical newbie questions and lots of non-newbie ones also.

If you recall some of my other posts I was thinking of starting out using a 30 gallon that we had laying around, I got talked out of that by many people and then eyed picking up a 55, which of course morphed into a 75 with an overflow and a sump.

From my reading I know that cichlids like both over filtration and over stocking. I'm not sure yet I want to go with over stocking, but I could also go that way.

So, for over filtration I've taken the sump, which is a ProClear Aquatics 150 and put it inside the aforementioned 30 gallon for extra capacity. Here's the current design:










The "inner sump," as I'm calling it will operate almost completely full. The water enters into the entry chamber a with a reverse Durso arrangement. This hasn't been tested yet but the non-durso was tested attached to the 75 gallon and it was exceptionally noisy. The water fills A, which will probably have some sea rocks for water buffering and flows out the top into B.

B used to be fill with bio-balls and you can see the blue drip tray at the top. I may or may not need that. B will have coarse through fine filter pads there laying on top of probably 2 or more liters of Seachem Matrix for bio filtration. Water exits B through the bottom.

C will also have some sea rocks for buffering and can serve as a temporary refugium if a fish is getting beat up too badly. Water exits C via an "infinity pool" type of overflow which, in testing, remains quiet for about a day. Once air starts getting under the water the flow switches, slowly, from laminar to turbulent and it gets really loud. Turning the pump on and off fixes this. I'm not happy with this right now but am struggling to think of a better way. You can see a close up of the infinity overflow here:










D is a small space which basically holds the water from C. Its prime purpose was to quiet the flow from C. I've tried the white filter pads but that was much noisier than the infinity pool setup. But C also serves to keep fish who jump from C from getting to E! Water flows to E down the sides of the inner sump and some flows under it. The inner sump is about 1/4 off the bottom supported by tiny aquarium sponges which only serve to keep the glass from getting scratched from any small bits of gravel that are there.

E just has the return pump to the 75 gallon tank, not back into the sump like we see above! It is a ViaAqua 3600 which does about 1,000 gph and consumes 85 watts. My target was 750 gph so this is fine. I'm not happy with the 85w, I'd love to halve that but googling around doesn't make that seem likely. I'd also like to quiet this down some but putting it on the filter pad really helps. E can also contain sea rocks if I need them.

Oh, fish... Right now I'm leaning towards Pseudotropheus demasoni, and Labidochromis caeruleus. Maybe another singleton of a bigger speci (Acei?) and some syno cats. I like the idea of Pseudotropheus saulosi replacing the Labs with something else but then I fear the tank will be too yellow.

I'd love to hear some comments or criticisms of the system. I'd especially love to about how to permanently quiet the over flow from C to D and of course stocking, but I'm not mentally there yet on stocking, too much tank building going on right now.

Thanks!


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you keep a singleton, don't save fry. If you want demasoni, don't stock saulosi. No comment on the contraption...I'd keep the 30G for beat up fish (needed with demasoni) and use a canister instead of a sump but that's just me.


----------



## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> If you keep a singleton, don't save fry.


Why not?



DJRansome said:


> If you want demasoni, don't stock saulosi.


Oh yes, of course, sorry if I gave that impression. One or the other for sure.



DJRansome said:


> No comment on the contraption...I'd keep the 30G for beat up fish (needed with demasoni) and use a canister instead of a sump but that's just me.


I have an Eheim Pro3 G160 or whatever the big one is on my planted 75gallon. Love it, but I'd need probably 2 of them to get the same filtration out of my sump, and the Eheim costs about as much as the entire 75 gallon and sump cost! Oh, and we have a 20 and 55 unused in the basement in case we need some more hospital space.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

All mouthbrooders can and will crossbreed. So if you have a singleton in the tank he will spawn with the females of the other species.

I always have 2 filters on my bigger tanks. Silence is my #1 priority with filters (after functionality of course), so it's definitely canisters for me.


----------



## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> All mouthbrooders can and will crossbreed. So if you have a singleton in the tank he will spawn with the females of the other species.
> 
> I always have 2 filters on my bigger tanks. Silence is my #1 priority with filters (after functionality of course), so it's definitely canisters for me.


Oh, I didn't know that about singleton's, certainly don't want that. As for the quiet, yes, very important. The Eheim is wonderful, just pricy, and I've blown my budget on universalrocks.com rocks and a background...


----------



## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

Ok, I'm back. (I lost my password and had a nightmare trying to get it back, big shout out to the mods who worked to make it happen!)

A lot has happened in that time. I solved the noisy overflow problem by drilling into the wall of the sump and putting in an elbow and ball valve. It is like a herbie but horizontal. I adjusted the ball valve so that the water still overflows the top but so little does it hardly makes a sound.

The tank started off like a regular 75 gallon, 4 foot from side to side, 18" front to back. But it is unusual in that has a 30 gallon sump which hold about 20 gallons of water. The sump has 3 liters of Seachem Matrix (and I can easily go to 4) and a 1000gph pump, but when you calculate the head and elbows I think it is pushing 500gph. There is a lot of flow in the tank.. So it has far more water than a usual 75 and probably far more filtration.

I also have a Universal Rocks 3D background which I had them cut for me to just cover the internal overflow in the tank. This takes up significant space where the overflow is, there is only 9" front to back for about 7-8 inches of length. (This might actually be an advantage, since it does break sight lines across the length of the tank.) The rest of the background only takes up 1 to 4" depending on what part of the background you are looking at it. The rocks are all Universal also. I think there are enough nooks and crannies but frankly I'm worried that some of the crevices are too small. I also might not have enough open sand space for digging. The substrate is eco-complete cichlid and I have 11 pounds of dead sea "rock" in the sump for buffering. pH is 7.8, GH and KH and 8. That's not out of the tap but a result of the substrate and sea rock.

A picture is worth a thousand words so here it is:










I really like the idea of a demasoni tank along with yellow labs. I have 12 1" Labs available to me from a local breeder, he suggest I get 8 of the and trim out extra males as they get older.

I really can't stock demasoni right now because between now and June 1 I'll be away twice for a week, that's too much away time to deal with any of the demon aggression.

So, that's where I am and I appreciate any advice.


----------



## Ramseydog14 (Dec 31, 2013)

Wow! From the looks of your pictures, I'm definitely not qualified to advise you,..but I would think that if you got your group of Demasoni small enough along with the Labs,.you would be fine away for 2 weeks or so. That's just based on my tank and my experience so far with them. Again my opinion only, but I think a lot of their "bad" reputation with aggression is overblown..and more to do with the tank setup (yours is perfect),..the size and timing of when they are added to a tank and what fish are already in that tank (again no problem on your part). If there were already a dominant male Dem in there..or you were buying a random group of medium of full grown Dems, you would be asking for trouble. I would add a good, timed feeder..set for small but frequent feedings..and go for it. I doubt you would lose any due to aggression. Others will advise also but that's my 2 cents. Post pictures please!!


----------



## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

Ramseydog14 said:


> Wow! From the looks of your pictures, I'm definitely not qualified to advise you,..


Thanks, but you're too kind. Being able to build a tank isn't the same as being able to treat the fish well... :- )



Ramseydog14 said:


> ...but I would think that if you got your group of Demasoni small enough along with the Labs,.you would be fine away for 2 weeks or so.


Fortunately it is 2 two trips of 1 week each, but I'm just worried that if there is some aggression and a death then the corpse will stay in the tank for that week, which would be bad.



Ramseydog14 said:


> That's just based on my tank and my experience so far with them. Again my opinion only, but I think a lot of their "bad" reputation with aggression is overblown..and more to do with the tank setup (yours is perfect),..the size and timing of when they are added to a tank and what fish are already in that tank (again no problem on your part). If there were already a dominant male Dem in there..or you were buying a random group of medium of full grown Dems, you would be asking for trouble. I would add a good, timed feeder..set for small but frequent feedings..and go for it. I doubt you would lose any due to aggression. Others will advise also but that's my 2 cents. Post pictures please!!


My hope is to buy a bunch of juvies all at the same time, and yes, of course I'll post pictures! Thanks for your help.


----------



## kbro (Feb 14, 2014)

I actually am keeping a group of dems in a 55 it's escaped with pfs and lace rock with coral barnicals fluval 306 and a powerhead. I have 9 dems 3 clown loaches and 8 1.5 - 2 " petricolas been pulling fry from the dems pretty successfully, I can't keep any other cichlids with them. And I've tried all different rock formations no such luck... However with just the cats and the loaches they've been okay for about 8 months...
Guess I got carried away in my post... Neways very cool fish too watch... Good luck with them


----------



## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Just about to start my first tank, also a 75G Mbuna, and I love this tank. I can't offer much in the way of stocking help (or any, actually!), but I've been looking at the Universal Rocks backgrounds for a while. I don't recognize that one, and it looks like maybe you mounted it upside down to create that cave/overhang on the lower right? I ended up with an acrylic tank from craigslist, 48x24Hx15 deep. Its a bit narrower than I'd like, and I worry about a deep 3D background. If you have a chance, would love to hear about your experience with the background planning/install. Here or PM, whichever is easier. Thanks, and good luck with getting the new fish up and running.


----------



## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

hose91 said:


> Just about to start my first tank, also a 75G Mbuna, and I love this tank. I can't offer much in the way of stocking help (or any, actually!), but I've been looking at the Universal Rocks backgrounds for a while. I don't recognize that one, and it looks like maybe you mounted it upside down to create that cave/overhang on the lower right? I ended up with an acrylic tank from craigslist, 48x24Hx15 deep. Its a bit narrower than I'd like, and I worry about a deep 3D background. If you have a chance, would love to hear about your experience with the background planning/install. Here or PM, whichever is easier. Thanks, and good luck with getting the new fish up and running.


This is part of the Texas Wall. I worked a lot with Ben there to make it happen. One section of the Texas Wall (lower left) has that huge bulge. I needed the bulge to cover the overflow.

If I had to do it over again I would not do it with a tank like mine, I've lost way too much space front to back, but that is because of my over flow and the Texas Wall with the huge bulge. A 2 foot front to back tank would have been perfect even with the bulge.

The install was both easy and hard. I didn't want to have to cut it, since I've heard it is a real nightmare to cut and I ended up having to do so. I needed to trim 1/4" from the left hand side. That was only because there was a bump in the overflow cover and things just didn't fit. I used tin snips and hated it.

I was then 1/4" too short on the right hand side! I used that black expandable foam that is used to direct koi pond waterfalls. Fish safe. The smell wasn't too bad but it took days and days to cure. I then tried painting it to match the background, I used acrylic paint and that just peeled off. So I'll stack rocks up, plant Java fern, or just not look there.

Drilling the holes for the filter intake and output was easy, I just used a hole saw. Siliconing the back in place was also easy.

I love how it turned out but the install took far more time than I expected. Would I do it again? Yes, but not in a 18" front to back tank. Now your's is only 15" so I would get one of the thin backgrounds. It is possible that the Texas Wall has a flat section, but that is one of the charms of the Texas Wall, all the overhangs make for great shadows.

And frankly, I wish I had started with a 6 foot tank, this project was way more effort (and expense) than I had planned for.


----------



## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks for the info! I think some of their thinner models (Crevice, Rocky, others) might still work and I'm considering that for the future. In the meantime I'm going black background, PFS and I'm on the hunt for rockwork. If you were to install one of these in an acrylic tank, how would you fasten it down/to the back, since silicone apparently doesn't adhere well to the acrylic? That Great Stuff pond foam? Do you NEED to silicone/seal the edges?


----------



## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

hose91 said:


> Thanks for the info! I think some of their thinner models (Crevice, Rocky, others) might still work and I'm considering that for the future. In the meantime I'm going black background, PFS and I'm on the hunt for rockwork. If you were to install one of these in an acrylic tank, how would you fasten it down/to the back, since silicone apparently doesn't adhere well to the acrylic? That Great Stuff pond foam? Do you NEED to silicone/seal the edges?


Absolutely they would work, they take up little space. If I did not have an overflow tank I would have used them, Crevice, in particular, looks great in my opinion.

I have no experience with acrylic, don't know. I siliconed mine in place to make sure fish, especially fry, don't get behind it!


----------



## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

Here's a video walkthrough of the sump


----------



## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

My Via Aqua has often failed to restart when I power fail test it. This is worrisome, I travel a bit and I don't want to come home to a tank w/o a filter running! I've spent some time looking around, trying to find a very quiet and very energy efficient pump. The Waveline DC pumps looked interesting but the more I read about them and the other Chinese pumps I couldn't tell who was ripping who off! I got disgusted with it and went back to looking at the Eheim pump. But the power savings just wasn't there. I had seen the Tunze Silence 1073.05 in my research but discarded it for the very high price. I loved the power consumption and the legendary quiet but just couldn't pull the trigger on it.

Then, I found one used on ebay. I clicked Buy It Now quickly.


----------

