# Adding non-cichlids to my Malawi cichlid tank...



## davimi (Dec 3, 2007)

I'm thinking of adding a couple of Silver Dollars or a small school of Congo Tetras to my Mbuna Malawi cichlid tank. Is this a bad idea?


----------



## BenHugs (Jan 13, 2007)

They are called dithers some people have had good luck with them. I personally haven't tried it ...............yet
You might find some more info if you search for dither fish on google


----------



## gordonrp (Mar 23, 2005)

My malawis would make short work of tetras, yum yum opcorn: opcorn: :fish:


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If it's a well established tank, I wouldn't try it. If the mbuna are young and the tank is relatively new (meaning they aren't old enough or been in the tank long enough to start to establish territories) you might pull it off for awhile.

I just don't think it's a good long term idea, and once the mbuna start to mature, it probably won't work.


----------



## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I have some big danios and barbs in mine. I put them in to encourage the africans to come out from the rockwork. Having the dithers in there seems to make them want to swim around more. I could probably take them out now but I kind of like the two little schools in there.


----------



## Fish_Dude (Aug 13, 2006)

Actually, I've kept Congo tetras in with cichlids.. not a demasoni tank mind you, but I had some yellow labs and a couple peacocks. I had two males.. they were about 3" and in full color. they were completely ignored and would chase each other all day.






OK, they don't look 3" in this video... this tank 'died' do a disaster with 'purigen'.. apparently, i didn't get the chlorine out. that little calvus though is still with me.. and in my big 180g. and he's not much bigger.. they grow so slow....

I kind of miss this tank actually.. the rainbowfish and the plants were really cool.

What cichlids did I have in the tank? Well, at one point, I had these congo tetras in with a Zebra, Red shoulder, Benga and albino benga peacock, and a couple yellow labs. granted, the tank in the video also had rainbowfish. Later in the video, you probably see what is meant by a MBUNA tank.. and no, I probably wouldn't put congo tetras in there... though they are one of my favorite fish... again, I do miss the rainbowfish tank.. maybe I should have stuck with that tank and stayed out of african cichlids? NAA!

And so you know, the prianah and tetra are members of the same family.


----------



## BenHugs (Jan 13, 2007)

I hear tiger barbs are used all the time...... I guess because they are cheap hold their own and nice looking to boot.


----------



## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

BenHugs said:


> I hear tiger barbs are used all the time...... I guess because they are cheap hold their own and nice looking to boot.


with tiger barbs you need at least 8 or they will be fin-nippers


----------



## gordonrp (Mar 23, 2005)

Fish_Dude said:


> Actually, I've kept Congo tetras in with cichlids.. not a demasoni tank mind you,


my demasoni have pretty small mouths, but would be a bit of a concern... In my tank I would be more worried about this guy



he will eat anything anything that fits in his mouth, perfect for unwanted fry


----------



## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Both Congo tetras and Silver Dollars can be fine. Silver Dollars are perfect dither fish... hardy, have no territorial asperations, and don't look like "bait".... they get kinda big thou, and look out of place.

Don't add small ones to tanks that have large cichlids already, they may not last till dark. Too much stress, and the fish will act stressed, and the cichlids will think they are prey and harass them to death.


----------



## BenHugs (Jan 13, 2007)

I hear people have good luck with australian rainbow dithers as well, and you can get them in red which is hard to find in cichlids.


----------



## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

My mbuna have yet to accept any type of non-cichid except for some catfish (plecos and Syn. petricola).


----------



## kb3781 (Jul 22, 2008)

I have 5 tiger barbs in my 125 gallon tank with 25 various african ciclids. It's like the tiger barbs live in a completely different dimension. They don't bother anybody and nobody bothers them. I have a large male pseudotropheus flameback who will chase every other cichlid out of his spot in the tank, but he has no issues with the tiger barbs being right next to him.


----------



## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

Why would you want to do that, I dont get it :-?

to each their own i guess.

M


----------



## davimi (Dec 3, 2007)

Thank you, everyone, I've been getting some great replies so far. What brought this question up in the first place is that I've had to move several of my Mbuna's out of the tank because of thier aggresiveness. I had a couple of fish get chased until they were close to death. Everytime I think I've achieved a "balance of power" in my tank another fish decides he's the new dominant fish in the tank and it all starts again. I'm now down to one of each species (seven mbuna's) and this has taken the aggresiveness down quite a bit. Mostly the aggresiveness was between the same species. Anyway, so I have a little room now for newcomers, so I figured either add more Mbuna's and probably more trouble or add something completely different like the Silver Dollars or the Congo Tetra's. I've always really liked Congo Tetra's. Maybe I just don't understand Cichlids well enough, but I'm just tired of all the chasing and fighting. I also have a Rainbow tank and thankfully, that is a peaceful tank.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't think dithers will help with aggression in Malawi (they don't chase fish of other species when they feel aggressive, they go after their own species almost exclusively in many cases). If you have aggression problems, better to identify and fix the problem.


----------



## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

davimi said:


> Thank you, everyone, I've been getting some great replies so far. What brought this question up in the first place is that I've had to move several of my Mbuna's out of the tank because of thier aggresiveness. I had a couple of fish get chased until they were close to death. Everytime I think I've achieved a "balance of power" in my tank another fish decides he's the new dominant fish in the tank and it all starts again. I'm now down to one of each species (seven mbuna's) and this has taken the aggresiveness down quite a bit. Mostly the aggresiveness was between the same species. Anyway, so I have a little room now for newcomers, so I figured either add more Mbuna's and probably more trouble or add something completely different like the Silver Dollars or the Congo Tetra's. I've always really liked Congo Tetra's. Maybe I just don't understand Cichlids well enough, but I'm just tired of all the chasing and fighting. I also have a Rainbow tank and thankfully, that is a peaceful tank.


I have been there and i am sure that everyone else here has too. Since i have started keeping africans way back, i have always had a hospital tank ready, and i was very surprised on how frequently i had to use it  
Dealing with aggression is part of the game, most of us strive to achieve the perfect balance through trial and error. However, many people seem to forget how to use research and common sense because they are too eager to get started.
This site has great information and great members, i am sure that you can learn alot.
My advice (and its just MY advice, does not mean that its right) is that you should not attempt Malawi Cichlids in anything less that a 4 foot 75 gallon (a handful of species are exempt).
Generous amount of rockwork
1 male to 3 female ratio minimum
combine groups of different Genera and color.

i do not believe that you told us how big your tank was?


----------



## davimi (Dec 3, 2007)

No, I don't believe I mentioned it before. My Malawi tank is a 55 gallon. I was looking at purchasing a nice 72 gallon bow front, but the 55 gallon was literally half the price and I thought would be a good starer tank for me. I've had it up and running for just over 2 years now. My Rainbow tank is a 33 gallon.


----------



## BenHugs (Jan 13, 2007)

I would post your stock list to see what others think before adding new fish


----------



## davimi (Dec 3, 2007)

The six cichlids in my 55 gallon are: 1- Labidochromis "electric yellow"
1- Melanochromis Johannii
1- Cobalt Blue
1- Zebra "O.B. Red"
1- Red Zebra
1- Jack Dempsey
2- Plecostamus (about 6in each)

Ok, I know what most of you will say about the Dempsey, that he doesn't belong in a Malawi tank. I traded a really aggresive Johannii for him a few months ago and so far he's been pretty cool. He mostly keeps to himself and he's really beautiful. Recently my Blue Fuelleborni died - he had been the dominant fish in the tank, now the Dempsey has taken over, but he's not overly aggresive - yet.
Worst case - I'll just have to trade him for some new Malawi's. Anyway, I think that should cover all the info for you guys to offer some informed feedback. Thank you!


----------



## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

A 55 is a good starter tank - much better than starting with 20 or 30 gallon at least. A 75 does have a better footprint, but I definitely understand saving money by buying smaller.

You have some fairly aggressive species in there - by simply replacing some of them you could easily cut down on the aggression levels. The other thing is you can actually add more Malawians and it could reduce the aggression - as long as you add the right number of each species and the appropriate sexes.

Personally - I've had little use for a hospital tank. The ironic part is that I've done more experimenting with mixing species than many people on here (that follow the cookie-cutter arrangements) and have probably had less hassles. :lol:

If you are still in the market for a bigger tank - definitely look into buying a used setup. There are tons of people out there that are selling off tanks because it was just a "phase" - or they can't afford to maintain the tank. And with the economy in some areas getting worse - there are bound to be more tanks up for sale (I've seen almost a 200% increase in tanks for sale in this part of the state alone over the past 3-4 months).

EDIT: Forgot to mention this - if you do go about adding more fish, it wouldn't hurt to get rid of those large waste factories (i.e. 6" pleco's). Those creatures put out a lot of poo....


----------



## gordonrp (Mar 23, 2005)

The JD would be just about fine the in the 50gallon by himself. Really I think you should rehome that fish. It is out of place in that small tank, esp when you consider he is a central american not african. :thumb:


----------



## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

davimi said:


> The six cichlids in my 55 gallon are: 1- Labidochromis "electric yellow"
> 1- Melanochromis Johannii
> 1- Cobalt Blue
> 1- Zebra "O.B. Red"
> ...


OK, in my experience, most of those you mentioned are too aggressive for a 55.
My personal opinion for long term success in a 55G would be the following:
Yellow Lab
Rusties
Salousi
Aceii

and you should get rid of the JD and plecs.

HTH
M


----------



## davimi (Dec 3, 2007)

Well, I've pretty much decided to move my Dempsey out of the Malawi tank. With the previous dominant Malawian deceased, my JD has become increasingly aggresive. The change in his demeanor is actually quite startling. The thing is- I have a large Cobalt Blue that is ready to take over as the next bully, so it never really ends. Do I need to clear the whole tank and start from scratch? I have a fish store that I usually do business with and I do trades with them. The question is: What type of fish do I introduce now? I've been reading up on the Rusties, Salousi and Aceii, but how are they going to fair with the last 5 Mbuna I have in there? I was thinking of adding one of each of those species. 
As for the plecos, I've always kept a pleco or two in every tank I've ever had. Are they not really necessary in a cichlid tank? Don't they help keep the algae under control? I admit they are getting pretty big and they poop alot and frankly, the Mbuna don't seem to really like them. Anyway, I will look forward to hearing from you guys.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1- Yellow lab 1- Jack Dempsey
1- Melanochromis johannii 2- Plecos
1- Cobalt blue
1- Zebra "o.b. red"
1- Red Zebra


----------



## BenHugs (Jan 13, 2007)

Plecos are not the problem....... big plecos are. You want to get some bristle nose plecos they only get to the 5" range and they will out clean any large pleco any day.

As far as stocking your tank you may need to add a group of fish all at one time and move everything around in the tank. You will still end up with a bully but way too many fish to fend off.


----------



## davimi (Dec 3, 2007)

BenHugs said:


> Plecos are not the problem....... big plecos are. You want to get some bristle nose plecos they only get to the 5" range and they will out clean any large pleco any day.
> 
> As far as stocking your tank you may need to add a group of fish all at one time and move everything around in the tank. You will still end up with a bully but way too many fish to fend off.


Do you mean add several new fish(which will be smaller) and keep the Mbuna I already have? That would be my first choice.


----------



## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

Here's my suggestion....try what you want. But do some research. I'm like spyder, I'll try almost anything and see what happens. If you want to go with something that'll probably work and look pretty nice, how about starting over with 12-15 demasoni, 6 yellow labs and 4 Acei. That would give you a nice active tank with good color combos.

What's your filtration like? Make sure you have enough for whatever you decide to go with.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

davimi said:


> I have a large Cobalt Blue that is ready to take over as the next bully, so it never really ends. Do I need to clear the whole tank and start from scratch?


That's mbuna for you! There is always a pecking order. The trick is to get it to stabilize so there are no injuries. As why_spyder and Mudkicker mentioned, you have an aggressive mix in a smallish tank (considering the fish you have stocked).

I think you need to decide what you want. If you want all male mbuna, then a 55G is not ideal (a 72G bowfront is not any better, go all the way to 75G if you upgrade). However you could continue to try making it work by adding more single male mbuna that don't look alike...maybe shoot for 10-12 fish. Yes, you continuously have to remove over-aggressive males and males that don't color up until you find a balance.

Or your 55G is a perfect tank for 3 breeding groups...choose one zebra type (red or OB or cobalt) and add females. Then choose 2 other species...you can get ideas from the cookie cutter. Super Turtleman's combination would work. Or Demasoni, Red Zebras and Acei is an alternative.


----------



## gordonrp (Mar 23, 2005)

if/when you add new fish.... move all of the rocks/decorations around so that everyone is starting fresh / no established territories.. your fish will settle better.


----------



## damo83 (Oct 29, 2004)

I'd add a group of about 6 acei and see how it goes. They are generally peaceful and may help in your situation. It certainly did with my tank. I had a group of cobalt blues that hid all the time and fought quite badly. I then added a colony of acei and hey presto the cobalts are out and about and everyone is happy :thumb:

Or alternatively try adding more electric yellows as they're not overly aggressive either and don't grow as big as acei.


----------

