# Lost with Geos...



## KoalaBear (Jan 13, 2009)

I have been searching through the profiles... and have grown very fond of the Geos... so yesterday I went out to see exactly what was available.

Problem... I am so lost and confused it isnt funny! I made a list of what I saw and liked at the stores... and have been trying to research the fish a bit more. I am finding that some of the names I have written down and now I can not find much info on any of them.... or even more discouraging is finding the information and then finding that it might not be the best option for my tank (a 75g... 48 1/2 x 18 1/2 x 21 3/8)

I took my other half with me... he doesnt know much about the fish world and I tends to pick out what he likes just based on looks.

We both agreed that we liked the Acarichthys Heckelii... and then there were a couple others that I have found out are from the Gymnogeophagus genus and I was trying to avoid going that route.

The following fish were listed as Geophagus and are currently about 3" each.... I just cant seem find more info on them... maybe I am not looking in the right spot. Blue Neon, Muerto, Norte, Yerbolito and Rio Olino

Anyone know another name I might be able to look under or any information?

I was hoping to have a planted tank but can change that if needed... and was looking to use Flourite sand substrate.


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## mp21IL (Jul 15, 2008)

Sadly i think your tank will be too small for Acarichthys Heckilii they get pretty big..

but you could easily do any of those Gymno's and even mix a few if you liked.
im curious why you wanted to avoid them though?

I have a big group of Gymnogeophagus gymnogenys "QUILERO" which come from Arroyo Yerbalito stream..

Gymno's are very confusing there isnt much written about them in books or even on the net but there are several knowlegable people who can put you in the right direction.A planted tank will be fine my tank is moderately planted and nothing has been uprooted.

im guessing "Yerbolito" will be the same as what i have. i also bought mine under that name (Arroyo Yerbalito) so that is the only one i can really speak on. as for the others your best bet would to head over to http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/index.php there are ALOT of gymno pro's there that keep or have kept alot also, http://www.aqvaterra.com/index.php.. i hope that helped.










Gymno's are great :thumb:


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## KoalaBear (Jan 13, 2009)

I figured my tank was too small for the Heckilii and had crossed them off the list. It was a bit discouraging because it was the first fish that my other half actually walked down the row of tanks and said "I want that one..." something he has not done with all of the pictures and looking around we have done. Unfortunately... getting a larger tank at this time is not an option so it will have to wait.

I really like the gymnos... dont get me wrong... but it was my understanding that they need a cooling period. I set up a small tank in about the same place as this current tank will be and the water temp without a heater did not get below 74-76 degrees... This is why I had dismissed them from the possibilities.

I am not too worried about price when it comes to stocking this tank. The tank will be in my living room and for all to see... I am more worried with it looking wonderful but yet being able to provide the requirements that the fish will need. I have located some wild caught red head Tapajos that have my interest peaked... but will be an expensive adventure to say the least.


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## mp21IL (Jul 15, 2008)

yea the cooling period can be a pain if you want to setup the tank in a living area i have my 110 setup in my room so i just leave the window open and the vents off ,and my tank right now is about 65 and its coldest was 55 and i was freezing i avoided my room like the plague  .

well have you showed the Mr./Mrs. the red heads yet? im sure they would love em just go through any of Edburess's posts about em'. I've never personally kept them so i cant share any info on them but since those are one of the most popular geo's im sure you can find alot of info on them either here or the other site i linked you.

when you set this other tank up was it recently or in the summer months?

i would opt for tank raised over WC's if it were me..tank bred will most likely be more forgiving on water parameters and it'll probably be alot cheaper..

HTH


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

Hi *KoalaBear*,


> The following fish were listed as Geophagus and are currently about 3" each.... I just cant seem find more info on them... maybe I am not looking in the right spot. Blue Neon, Muerto, Norte, Yerbolito and Rio Olino


All of those are _Gymnogeophagus_, proper species...
_Gymnogeophagus_ aff. _rhabdotus_ "blue neon"
http://www.aqvaterra.com/cichlids_gymnogenys_n_sp_blue_neon.php
_Gymnogeophagus_ aff. _rhabdotus_ "frayle muerto"
G_ymnogeophagus_ aff. _rhabdotus_ "norte" 
_Gymnogeophagus_ aff. _gymnogenys_ "quilero" (from Arroyo Yerbalito)
http://www.aqvaterra.com/cichlids_gymnogenys_quilero.php
_Gymnogeophagus labiatus_ "blue yerbalito" (from Arroyo Yerbalito)
http://www.aqvaterra.com/cichlids_labiatus_blue_yerbalito.php
_Gymnogeophagus_ aff. _gymnogenys_ "rio olimar" (likely meant by "Rio Olino")

Those names might seem complicated, but currently _G. gymnogenys_ and _G. rhabdotus_ are single species, but in reality the locations have to be listed because there are many species within each of those, so it is best to view them as gymnogenys-group and rhabdotus-group. _G. labiatus, G. australis_, and _G. balzanii_ are also described species.

There is no information about the fishes, but good pictures can be found on Felipe Cantera's website...
http://www.aqvaterra.com/cichlids_other_fishes.php

I think _Geophagus_ are a better option in most situations, unless you can provide the "cool period" without any major problems for the _Gymnogeophagus_. Smaller species like _Geophagus_ "tapajÃ³s orange head", _Geophagus pindare, Geophagus taeniopareius, Geophagus parnaibae_ would be fine in your 75g. I keep 6 different _Gymnogeophagus_ that I collected in Uruguay, but haven't had them for very long so I can't offer much experiences with them, other than their natural ecology. Hope that helps!

*mp21IL*... thanks for the mention of my fish :thumb:

Ed


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## KoalaBear (Jan 13, 2009)

I have not shown him the red heads... I dont think that he will have a problem with them though. He really liked the geos/gymnos that we saw yesterday... truth be told I am not 100% certain that he would notice what I did with the tank.

The sample tank I set up was just recently.... during one of the colder snaps. I, unfortunately, could not open windows, etc because of it being the sitting area. The gymnos are gorgeous and I would love to have them. I wish I had a basement or something like that where I could move them to for a cooling period.

I am still checking around for other options. I have found the red heads listed on 2 different sites... and both are WC... I will keep looking for some TB. I found Aequidens latifrons listed as well that look really pretty... And then I have the whole what about tankmates part to think of. There are almost too many options for these gorgeous SA fish 

I guess I will work on getting the tank set up and cycled... Are you familiar with flourite substrate? I am trying to make sure that it is safe for the sifters. I am going to find some hardy plants with good root systems as well as some that I can tie down to avoid them being dug up. I was going to go with shop lights and build a canopy for the tank... but I found a marineland strip light that will be bright enough... although almost too bright. I wanted to stick to the 1.5-2wpg to avoid CO2... this one puts off 216 watts (4 T5 bulbs)... It says to use 2 daylight and 2 actinic lamps...

I have an extra filter running on another tank that I will move over to jumpstart the cycle on the tank... I want to be able to add the fish all at once so I am going to fishless cycle it.


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## mp21IL (Jul 15, 2008)

your right choosing Geophagus does open your options alot due to the constant temp. im not familiar with the other species you named though..

As fas as flourite being safe i dont use it so im not sure, but i'd assume it would be..i mean i use root tabs and i know they eventually break up and get mixied into the sand and my gymno's turn the sand constantly where i know the tabs have been placed without a problem.

my only concern would be is flourite sand or more of a soil makeup?

if it is a type of thick soil you could use that as an under layer and put regular sand ontop or just use the flourite around the plants.. i would post a more recent FTS of my tank but im battling some mean algae..

i have 2x96W PC lights over my tank which is identical to yours but 5 ft instaed of 4. and i have good growth almost all of my anubias flowered once, my java fern are producing several plantlets, and my onions are growing tall and strong.

this is a old FTS i added several rocks and hygro since this was taken










as you can tell i tied most of the plants to the driftwood

NP Ed your Red heads are probably the best i've seen on the net


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## btate617 (Apr 24, 2008)

KoalaBear said:


> I have been searching through the profiles... and have grown very fond of the Geos... so yesterday I went out to see exactly what was available.
> 
> Problem... I am so lost and confused it isnt funny! I made a list of what I saw and liked at the stores... and have been trying to research the fish a bit more. I am finding that some of the names I have written down and now I can not find much info on any of them.... or even more discouraging is finding the information and then finding that it might not be the best option for my tank (a 75g... 48 1/2 x 18 1/2 x 21 3/8)
> 
> ...


The following fish were listed as Geophagus and are currently about 3" each.... I just cant seem find more info on them... maybe I am not looking in the right spot. Blue Neon, Muerto, Norte, Yerbolito and Rio Olino

the blue neon and norte are probably these....
GYMNOGEOPHAGUS N. SP. NORTE (EX-MERIDIONALIS)
GYMNOGEOPHAGUS N. SP. BLUE NEON "VALENTINES"

the yerbolito and rio olino...... those are probably locations these fish came from, such as...
GYMNOGEOPHAGUS LABIATUS "RIO OLIMAR"
GYMNOGEOPHAGUS CF. GYMNOGENYS "ARROYO YERBALITO"

you are having a hard time with info because some are sti;ll abit hard to find. Many of the gymno's just became avaliable in canada last year if i remember right, but i think some people were picking them up through the aca a few yers ago.
All of them are pretty cool fish though, if you have the chance i would try a few.

here are a few pics for you.
gymnogeophagus cf. gymnogenys "arroyo yerbalito"


gymnogeophagus n. sp. paso pache "rio santa lucia"
the bottom fish


gymnogeophagus n. sp. blue neon "valentines"
bad pic sorry


once you decode the names it is pretty simple. lots of these fish are caught in different areas and therefore have different coloring, so they are putting the location where they are caught. two fish caught in different locations may be slightly different making you think you may have two different fish when in fact they are the same.
Hope some of that helped you out.

Brian


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## KoalaBear (Jan 13, 2009)

THANK YOU EVERYONE! You guys have been a WEALTH of knowledge!

It would seem that the gymnos are what are available around here. Such a shame to see them labeled as geos and without any information on them. There is just no way I can do the cooling period they need in this current house.

I have spent a good chunk of the afternoon looking at various different fish... and based on recommendations I have gotten here I think I am leaning towards orange heads... from what I have read they are fairly peaceful and hardy... a good introduction to the geos and I think will look great!

I am leaning away from the flourite. I like the more natural looking sand for a natural set up... I have never used it before so beyond that I can not tell you anything much about it.... it was just what I was told to use for planting substrate. I think the majority of my plants will be tied down to driftwood or maybe even planted in shallow pots and then placed under the soil.... the later option is still kinda up in the air.

For filters I think I may do the Rena XP3 and then perhaps a HOB filter (aquaclear is what I have always used and loved) at the opposite end to help give some more circulation... the other option would be power heads. This will be my first canister filter and the XP3 has been recommended to me by several. I am completely open to options from others though.

I am so excited to get this tank up! I hope to have fish as gorgeous as Ed's swimming around in there. My 10g betta tank is just not cutting it for me... although it has let me play a little more with some high tech plants. It is so much cheaper to put lots of light over a tank that small compared to a 75g!

Thanks again everyone! I love this site... BTW... I think I have the other half sold on orange heads... without even seeing them


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi...I just setup my 120 4x2x2 tank for geos and angels and lemon tetras.. I picked up 6 orangehead geo babies from EdBurress... They are fantastic and tank raised of course.. Don't know what size you will be looking for but he's in NC so not too far from you.. Don't know the timing involved either... but you've seen the pics of his adults and the babies are just adorable.. I have them on a pool filer sand substrate and they sift sand 24/7.. They are really fun to watch and as they grow the colors hopefully will be amazing as the parents LOL.. They are very entertaining interactive fish..
But I suggest you get the tank going first with whatever you are going to use for dithers and then when your plants are established add the geos.. I have two plants in there that the sevs left me after I converted from discus planted to rescue sev munched and the geos so far don't really bother them.. I do have rocks around the root areas..and tons of driftwood in there.. don't know what will happen as they grow.. Good luck whatever you decide to do.. Sue


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *KoalaBear*

Yup, go with the G. sp. "orange heads". They are a great cichlid.
Male G. sp. "orange head"









As for possible tank mates, I kept a group of corydorass julii, a couple of orange spot bristlenose plecos, lemon tetras, golden pencilfish and marbled hatchetfish with mine.

Lemon Tetras









Marble Hatchetfish


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## KoalaBear (Jan 13, 2009)

I do believe it will most certainly be these wonderful fish for me  I am even planning on heading down to NC to get some youngsters from EdBurress. I am looking at some of the large body tetras as well. The selection around here seems to always be rather limited for variety... and I think about the only place I have seen lemons is at one of the large chain stores that I wouldnt buy fish from to begin with.

I had wanted to maybe add a pair of rams to the tank but I am not sure if it would be the best mix or not. I would def go with the bolivans.... I added 3 to the 29g at my mom's house and I love going to visit and watch these guys.... they are looking great, however, I think that we have 3 males in the tank over there....

I cant wait to get the tank set up this weekend!!!!!! I only wish I had room to have a take double or triple the size of the 75g to have one of these amazing geo tanks. I am not sure that there is a fish that is at stunning but yet peaceful as these guys appear to be.


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## KoalaBear (Jan 13, 2009)

What other fish are native to this particular area? The only tetras I can find listed are lemons. I finally found a source for them it looks like. I am content to have these but my other half wants to have more fish... at least while we are waiting for them to grow up a little. At the moment I am thinking of starting with 6 orange heads & maybe 20ish lemons... What type of algae eaters are from around this area?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *KoalaBear*,

Check out this link mate, Cat fish found in the Rio Tapajos. If you can find proper Ancistrus dolichopterus definately grab a pair. You should also consider one of the corydoras species, they are a good clean up crew and make for a fun addition. Otherwise a pair of Peckoltia L134, Leopard Frog Pleco would make for a good addition as well.

As for other tetras found in the Rio Tapajos, that are usually available in LFS, I've only found and kept Nannostomus beckfordi, Carnegiella strigata.


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## KoalaBear (Jan 13, 2009)

I have not seen the golden pencils around here but will keep an eye out for them... and as far as catfish or plecos go I would likely have to order them online if I want anything fancier than a bushynose... although we do have one store that has some other varieties but at $60+ a fish and they can not sex them or tell you anything about them. I have never been much of a fan of hatchets... plus I hear they are rather avid jumpers!

Right now stocking wise I am thinking:
4-6 orange heads
approx 20 lemon tetras (the store I found them at have 19 in right now and will probably not order them again because they do not sell... which is why they are 0.99 each.... or if I buy all 19 they will give them to me for a great deal.)

I think the tank will look great with some driftwood and a couple of plants with rock work around them...

All of the pictures I have shown to my tank co-owner (LOL) have shown the orange heads down around the bottom of the tank... and he is not impressed with the lemon tetras. He keeps asking if there is a larger body fish that will stay near the top. I dont think that he realizes how large the orange heads will get.... nor that the tank will be very peaceful and relaxing.

Is there anything else that I could add that might make him happy? I really do not want to upset what I think is going to be a gorgeous tank... but at the same time I can kinda see what he means about dead space... I, however, have had the benefit of seeing large schools of tetras school together and how gorgeous they are. How about a suggestion maybe for another, more colorful, tetra that could thrive in the water conditions similar to the orange heads? I know that I would be compromising on the native origin part... but I try to keep the peace in the house for the most part.


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi.. Sounds like you are really starting to get it all together.. =D> So some thoughts on other fish for tankmates while the babies are growing..
I'm really liking how the angels look with them.. they stay at the top and the two species pretty much ignore each other.. By the time the orangeheads have grown up a bit the angels will have grown to the point where they start to pair and you can sell/trade the angels before any real aggression among them happens.. that's my plan..
As to large bodied tetras.. the columbian tetras have red and blue on them, get larger than the lemons and look good in a school.. The best schooling tetra is rummynose.. and I think they would be ok in the tank for quite a while before becoming snacks.. The lemons really color up quite a bit once they are in your tank compared to the lfs.. They don't school as tight as the rummys but kinda stay together.. I really don't think you will see too much schooling from them especially as there is no fearsome predator in your tank..
I tried a sev and I know others have as well.. Mine was too aggressive but some are very mellow.. They may go after your plants tho..
A lot depends on your planned look for the tank when the oh babies start to get some size.. If you play nice with a lfs usually you can trade in fish for credit so you could get some tankmates now that maybe you could enjoy til the oh geos grow and at that point trade the others in.. What does he like?? Sometimes it's easier to see what he likes and we can tell you if it will possibly work.. My husband is not a fan of tetras either..LOL.. I'm sure others will chime in with suggestions.. HTH Sue


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## KoalaBear (Jan 13, 2009)

What does he like? If only I could figure that out! He says he likes everything but is quick to wrinkle his nose about some of the fish I point out.

Fish he likes... Blue rams, cardinals or neons, glofish, many of the african cichlids... Etc... You can see where my conflict is coming in? I am not buying cardinals for expensive orange head food... I won't have glolites... Africans are about as opposite as I can get with a SA tank... And I think rams (either type) would be too much on the bottom... Plus not help the whole problem with "nothing in the middle" as he puts it. He says he likes angels but I have had nothing but bad luck with them in the past... Of course I didn't know what I do now about fish keeping. I will check around some more & see if there is anything else that strikes his fancy.


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi again... Just a few more thoughts...
Have either of you looked at keyholes?? They would give him some bulk in there if that's what he wants. They are fine with the geo temps, only get 4 inches or so and get long trailers.. They are sometimes shy when alone but get a few of them and they are really nice mellow fish.. They don't look great at the lfs or in a lot of pics.. subtle coloring Not a lot of color but personality and I think they would be good with the oh geos as long as everyone started out together in the tank with the baby geos.. That way they would be used to each other and I think the difference in shape etc would be interesting.. You could still get a small school of cardinals or rummys.. Both the oh geos and the keyholes are fairly slow growing so it would be a while before anyone might be tempted by the tetras..
My husband's tank has some black skirt tetras in there they are black with some red and a school of them might also look good. In small numbers they can sometimes be nippy for some folks but I have never had any trouble from them (the tank has a long veil angel and no issues) and they look good in a large group and they get to be a fairly good size.. They also are fine with geo temps..
You two just really need to go to either a site or a lfs with lots of variety so you can choose what you want.. HTH Sue


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## bernreuther (Jan 29, 2007)

I have a shoal of red minor tetras in with my geos. They stay in a level higher than the geos but not all the way up top. I need to find some marble hatchets.

The red minors aren't exact for the region but I've decided that any south american is good enough for now. They look great under my lights and contrasted with the plants, and the geos leave them alone.


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## keyholer (Apr 18, 2010)

woops--sorry, just realized I was resurrecting an old thread. Pretty sure the poster has settled his stocking questions by now! My apologies.


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