# Question about seeding a new tank



## hoghead32 (Sep 14, 2015)

Say I want to have some bags of ceramics ready for seeding a future tanks filter...I have already ordered 6-26oz bags from e-bay. Would it be possible to place them in a 5gallon bucket filled with water,add ammonia and an air stone and let nature take its course ? A month goes buy,you've ordered ur tank n canister filter and your seeded bio is ready.....??


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## Samadhikash (Jun 16, 2015)

Check out this video....






I like the whole video, but he starts showing pretty much exactly what you are suggesting at 4:15. Would the buoyancy of your media work in a similar way? If not, perhaps help things by putting the media on a screen platform of some kind that is above the airstone--idk, just thinking aloud. Doesn't seem like it would be as efficient if all the media was just sitting in a lump at the bottom of the bucket. Having a hard time thinking of a reason to say it can't work to get things rolling.

If you try it, I hope you'll let us know how it goes.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

In theory this will work, but best if water is flowing "Through" the ceramics.

1) You will need to contantly add ammonia (daily or every other day) to grow and feed the bacteria.
2) Tough to do water changes in such a small container with so much ceramics when the Nitrites are meassured.
3) The water needs to be kept warm, the BIO sysytem works better with water about 78+ degrees.
4) After the bacteria builds up on the ceramics, they are very "delicate" and do not handle change well (from bucket to filter).

You can try it, and then maybe move this to the filter about a week before fish to "Re-Establish" the bacteria.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

If all you have is the 5G bucket, I would run a sponge filter in it and do a fishless cycle. You will need a heater as tanker3 has pointed out. Once the bucket has cycled, just put the sponge in the canister and it will kickstart cycling the tank. The sponge will be less cumbersome than the ceramics you want to put in the canister and getting water to flow through it doesn't require a big pump.

Beneficial bacteria multiplies very fast once it's established. So even a small sponge with established bacteria will help cycle a bigger tank fairly quickly.

I did this once years ago, except I used a 10G tank to run the sponge filter, instead of a bucket. It took about 20-25 days to complete the cycle. Once my 110G was set up, I put the sponge in the new canister near the biomedia and did another fishless cycle in the bigger tank. It was cycled in days.

If you don't go overboard with adding ammonia to the bucket and keep your nitrites below 5, you won't need to do water changes in the bucket while cycling. PWCs during fishless cycling are really only necessary when nitrites get too high and you're at risk of stalling the cycle.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

Instead of fishless cycling it in a bucket, I would run a sponge filter or 2 in the existing tank for a month-6 weeks. If you get a new setup, you can take the one of the sponge filters out of the existing tank and put it right into the new one. You can also take about 1/3 of the seeded media from you existing filter, replace it with new, and put the old seeded media into a filter on the new tank. I've done this many times without any ill effects whatsoever. As zimmy stated, the bio colonies, once established, multiply quickly. Plus it's much less painful than everything that goes into another fishless cycle.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

DrgRcr said:


> Instead of fishless cycling it in a bucket, I would run a sponge filter or 2 in the existing tank for a month-6 weeks. If you get a new setup, you can take the one of the sponge filters out of the existing tank and put it right into the new one. You can also take about 1/3 of the seeded media from you existing filter, replace it with new, and put the old seeded media into a filter on the new tank. I've done this many times without any ill effects whatsoever. As zimmy stated, the bio colonies, once established, multiply quickly. Plus it's much less painful than everything that goes into another fishless cycle.


That would definitely be the preferred way to go. When I did it I didn't have an established tank and knew it was going to take a while before I could set up my 110G (had to order the tank, get the stand, etc.). It sounds like the OP also doesn't have an existing tank...is that right?


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## hoghead32 (Sep 14, 2015)

I have a newer 75 gal.cichlid tank that I seeded with some of the 6 bags of ceramics I had installed in the deep twin chambers at the back of my 38 gal.Nuvo tank that has the sump in its rear section.....to get this 38 up n running,which was my first tank,I used some bio from a friends 300 gal.tank....it was a great experience to learn some short cuts to get back in the aquarium hobby after a 25 year hiatus...felt even better when I didn't loose any fish during the process. Now have my sights on another tank but in the planning stage. Thanks for everyone's suggestions,have a new sponge filter as a back up that I can use in a 18 gal.bin


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## hoghead32 (Sep 14, 2015)

Went ahead and put the 6 bags of ceramics I had ordered in a 5 gal.Bucket with air stone in the center with bags in a circular pattern around the air stone. I then added a capful or two of ammonia,also some Stability and some Fritz Zyme 7,live nitrifying bacteria. The ammonia reading was a high 4 ppm. Walked away for a week than another week came back n tested and still had high readings ammonia...added more bacteria as stated earlier....checked today and was at 0.25 golly gee it worked...but haven't bought a tank yet so I think I'll do a 100% water change and add a little ammonia to keep it cooking...only tested ammonia thru process which took 3wks....only tested once a week and was surprised when it worked.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

hoghead32 said:


> Went ahead and put the 6 bags of ceramics I had ordered in a 5 gal.Bucket with air stone in the center with bags in a circular pattern around the air stone. I then added a capful or two of ammonia,also some Stability and some Fritz Zyme 7,live nitrifying bacteria. The ammonia reading was a high 4 ppm. Walked away for a week than another week came back n tested and still had high readings ammonia...added more bacteria as stated earlier....checked today and was at 0.25 golly gee it worked...but haven't bought a tank yet so I think I'll do a 100% water change and add a little ammonia to keep it cooking...only tested ammonia thru process which took 3wks....only tested once a week and was surprised when it worked.


Beneficial bacteria is usually pretty fragile at this early stage when cycling. For this reason the recommended size of water changes is 20-25% during fishless cycling.

Let us know how it goes if you do the 100% water change.


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## hoghead32 (Sep 14, 2015)

I had dumped so much ammonia in when starting ....not the usual drops per gallon gradually every so often....just did it the "get er done" way so I'll check levels of nitrates before 100% and c if it's the route I should go....advice well taken,thanks!


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

If your nitrite reading is not 0 yet, the nitrate reading will be skewed and there's no point checking it. Check the nitrites. If they're above 5 ppm, do water changes. Otherwise, I'd leave it be.


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## hoghead32 (Sep 14, 2015)

Still had slight ammonia as yesterday 0.25ppm but oh those nitrites I never checked...wished I had a shirt that purple. Should I leave water alone and let nitrates settle in time or do water change?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

hoghead32 said:


> Should I leave water alone and let nitrates settle in time or do water change?


Not sure if you mean nitrites not nitrates. If your nitrite reading is above 0, the nitrate reading is not accurate. If your nitrites are 5ppm or above (purple suggests "yes"), I would do a few 25% water changes. You don't want to change too much water at once because the beneficial bacteria is fragile at this stage.


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## hoghead32 (Sep 14, 2015)

Yes,nitrites...was thinking that a different bacteria works on nitrites turning them into nitrates ....also remember reading a post allowing nitrates to get as high as 50ppm.before a water change.I did a 50% water change on my 75,my nitrates were between 5 and 10 best I could tell...find these tests are hard to read accurately. Have a sunsun304b canister and it wouldn't prime after w/c so took it apart and it was inundated with brown slime everywhere...the 2 layers of poly located in the bottom shelf was gunked up bad and the other 3 shelves r ceramics with the addition of another poly layer with ceramics in top tray...what a mess.There is a protective grate snapped onto the underside of head unit to protect the motor that was slimed bad as well.Replaced the poly pads w/new on bottom only,none on top,rinsed everything else, reinstalled and of course circulation is much better...it was 20 days since last filter cleaning which I now know is too long.Cichlid count 48


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## Roger That (Aug 12, 2015)

How long has the tank been up and running? 20 days and your filter is that dirty after cleaning sounds fishy to me, lol. What s the size of your tank, do you have any other filtration on the tank?


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## hoghead32 (Sep 14, 2015)

Had the 75gal.tank up n running bout 3 mo.maybe longer? Seeded the one canister initially then added even more bio from another tank as I added fish...do 50% w/c every 4 to 7 days as nitrates approach 10ppm. The detritus that deposits on the sand from feeding soon breaks down into smaller particles and finds its way to the canister. My sand bed is clean and still gets siphoned during water changes then I switch to a larger dia.hose to finish water removal. I think my fish load contributes to the filter becoming maxed out...when reading what other hobbiest use as a schedule for their filter cleaning have fewer fish so can wait for monthly maintenance. A shop ordered a larger tank for me to look at which is why I'm fish less cycling 6 bags of ceramics. Yesterday I visited the shop where I'll buy my tank and he had got a new shipment of fish...purchased a adult Electric Blue Ahli and a stunning OB Peacock that had blue spots on a hot pink body with pink spots on all his fins...an amazing 4" fish...which is y I have 48 fish in a 75 tank,needing more room ! And quicker filter cleanings.


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## hoghead32 (Sep 14, 2015)

No other filters,the sunsun304b I have is rated for 100 gal.or better...my tank is 75 but I have 48 mostly young cichlids but have had an opportunity to purchase some larger adult size for a reasonable price...plans in the works for a 6 foot tank.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

hoghead32 said:


> No other filters,the sunsun304b I have is rated for 100 gal.or better...my tank is 75 but I have 48 mostly young cichlids but have had an opportunity to purchase some larger adult size for a reasonable price...plans in the works for a 6 foot tank.


The rating on a filter is a gross overestimate when it comes to cichlids. It's not uncommon to go with a filter that is rated for at least double the size of your tank and then get a second filter to support it.

For example, I have a 112G tank and have one filter rated for tanks up to 500G and another filter rated for 160G. I have only 10 juvie cichlids in the tank but still don't think I have enough filtration based on how dirty the filters are when I clean them every couple of months.


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## hoghead32 (Sep 14, 2015)

75 gal.Tank has been running 3/4 months with one sunsun304b which is rated for 100gal...but when u have 48 cichlids and feeding more than necessary ...I'll need to adjust my cleaning schedule....


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