# Hospital tank questions



## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

Being relatively new to keeping cichlids I don't have a hospital tank and of course it need one.

Is there a size that is typica?

When I first set it up do I use water from my main tank?

I know that the answers will depend on why I need the tank... I have a fish with bloat, it is a compressiceps that is about 4 in

I plan to treat him with Clout but don't want to stain my main tank blue so I will treat it separately to guards against possible spread since it looks like that is a possibility.

Any thoughts would be very appreciated...

Laurie


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Is there a size that is typica?


5-10 gallon, just big enough for the fish. Uses less meds and makes water changes easy.



> When I first set it up do I use water from my main tank?


You don't have to, no, if your water is ok as is for your fish.

You might want to consider alternatives to Clout first. I'm going to move this to the illness section. There's some helpful info there on treating for bloat.


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## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

Thank you...


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

I have a 10g that I used as a hospital before. Its easier and probably more effective to treat him in a smaller tank anyway so the meds can do their stuff in a more confined space.

Good luck, I hope your fish recovers. :thumb:


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## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

Prov356 suggested that I look for alternatives to Clout first. I have been reading here in this section and can't seem to find anything yet. Does anyone have some suggestions?

Still reading


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

You can try Metronidazole.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/malawi_bloat.php

I had a sick fish for about a month, not sure if it was bloat or not. I tried Seachems Metro for almost 3 weeks and it didnt work. I used clout and my fish was eating within a week. Hope you have better luck w/ Metro that I did. :thumb:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have great luck with Metronidazole and bloat. But you definitely want to confirm the symptoms first in case it's not really bloat.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Yeah, what makes you think its bloat?

Not eating properly, hiding, rapid breathing, white stringy poop, bloated look. Thats bloat, although normally you notice the not eating and hiding and rapid breathing followed by stringy poop. The bloated look, if it gets to this stage its most likely fatal. And if bloating is the only symptom it could be another condition.


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## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

Nodalizer said:


> Yeah, what makes you think its bloat?
> 
> Not eating properly, hiding, rapid breathing, white stringy poop, bloated look. Thats bloat, although normally you notice the not eating and hiding and rapid breathing followed by stringy poop. The bloated look, if it gets to this stage its most likely fatal. And if bloating is the only symptom it could be another condition.


He started putting his nose up at food a few days ago and I thought he may be picking at the few left overs after I left the tank. floating at the top of the tank and now I think his intestines are distended.

I did notice the clear/white stringy poop. I read the article here on the site and am sure it is the culprit. According to what i have read he is probably no far from gone at this stage because of my ignorance.

I have moved him to a hospital tank. Should I treat him? Should I treat my main tank? I did pick up Metronidazole so that I could treat the fish.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Regarding treatment, dosages, etc. here's an updated article.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I wouldn't say hes too far gone until he is visibly bloated, at that stage it becomes hard.

Follow that artical.


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## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

Thank you for the replies...

The article says to take out all of the biological media...

Please no laughing 

I know that means the bio balls, but doesn't also mean the ceramic beads, the black sponge filter and the polishing filter?

If so, I am going to basically be emptying out the marineland canister filter thati have down to the baskets and letting it run... Is that right?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Just the ceramics. and bio balls. They have 99% of your nitrifying bacteria.


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## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok.... Thank, you for that

The move was too much for the compressiceps...

I will let everyone know how the tank comes out... Thank you all fr your help today.


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## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

I had been so preoccupied with my sick fish that I really couldn't tell you if any of the others were eating normally or not so I decided to see before I started treatment.

Because I know that they love peas as a treat I got some out for them while I was cleaning up the mess I left behind today...

They were all eager to eat... Even my picky Lwanda came out happily which is unusual. He is usually the last to come out and eat.


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## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

Update on the tank this morning...

I am on my way to get Epson Salt, I didn't have any last night and due to the time didn't have time to add it slowly enough.

I see in the article referenced above that it says 2 tablespoons per 10 gallons. I read in the older article that it was suggested to mix half and half table salt and Epson salt. Why the change? (Simply a question))

When I add it Epson salt to the tank is there a measure (ppm, should I get some type of salinity gauge) that I am looking for? Or, do I just do the 50% water change and add in the 2 tablespoons per 10 gal as I fill up the tank since the fish will be accustomed to it already.
.
.
.
On a completely different note... why?

Tank size 120 gal (6ft L x 18in W x 23in H)

Cichlids present now:
Lwanda
Super Red Empress
Aulonocara baenschi
Tropheus sp. "Ikola" (Ikola)
Red Zebra (very mild mannered)
And a blue "peacock" - long story short is he seen me coming and knew I didn't know enough to know the difference. I am not sure what he is and have yet to post in the other board for help. (the picture is for visual, I will post in the other forum when I get back from the store)

I didn't/don't witness any aggression other than what I would consider normal fussing over their territories.
On the occasion that there is a spat between two the Lwanda comes out and puts a stop to it right away.
I feed them Spirulina 20 flakes that was recommended from the store where I get the fish.
I feed them from my hand and what they don't eat I pull back out. The Empress and the Zebra are both greedy and if allowed they will continue to eat so I try to watch the others as a gauge as to when they are done. I may still be feeding them too much.
My water yesterday was: GH 180 KH240 pH 8.5 Nitrites 0 Nitrates 40 before change 20 after back to 40 now (I do weekly water changes of about 30%)

Blue -


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The comp did not make it?

Given your fish list, I would not have expected him to be happy. I had a calvus in a hap/peacock tank and he was not happy...took him out.

You add epsom salt as a laxative. Yes, there is no tester for this...just go with tablespoons per 10G. If there are no intestinal problems among the remaining fish, and everyone is eating you may not need to do it. If you do add it, once the fish have recovered you remove it via water changes.

If you saw an article recommending mixing epsom and NaCl...it used to be very popular to add salt to freshwater tanks as a preventive. Fishkeepers use it more as a medication for particular illnesses now...like ich for example. I would not add NaCl.

You have only six fish in a 72" tank? Add some fish. Understocking can cause stress too.


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## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

They seem to be alert and happy today. They are a bit skittish right now, i think because i have had thier lights out and they are on a tight routine.

I did decide to treat them, I am in the middle of the first 50% change now. I would rather be safe than sorry later after losing another fish knowing might have been able to save it if I had treated the tank.

I want to add more fish, I just do t know what else to add. I would like to keep an all male tank if I could and that is where I am now. I have been reading and looking at what others keep in my tank size and of course they appear to know what they are doing. Since I am just starting with this tank I didn't want to go overboard so when you say add some fish... Just in general are we talking 2 or 3...

I do plan to get more fish, I was just under the impression that as long as they had enough hiding places they would be ok.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd add six and see how it goes. Then you might have room for six more.

I'd remove the tropheus though. I'm surprised if there was bloat in the tank that he was not the victim.

Here are some of my males. You would not want the borleyi with the empress.

Aulonocara Ruby Red
Aulonocara stuartgranti Cobue (Regal)
Aulonocara stuartgranti Maleri
Aulonocara stuartgranti Mdoka (Flametail)
Aulonocara stuartgranti Usisya
Aulonocara turkis
Copadichromis borleyi Kandango
Copadichromis chrysonotus Mumbo 'White Blaze'
Copadichromis trewavasae Likoma 'Ivoryhead Mloto'
Otopharynx tetrastigma
Placidochromis electra Likoma 'Deep Water'
Protomelas marginatus 'Turquoise'

I'm really enjoying the haps. The peacocks are a little more wimpy in my tank.


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## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

Thank you for the suggestions...

I have a piece if wood in the tank along with a couple of rocks that have green algae on them that I don't clean off for the tropheus. He grazes on it all the time and seems to be quite happy doing so. My Red Zebra does the same thing. I thought about cleaning them off when I did my water regular change but decided against it. Now I'm not sure what to do.

I placed the Blue cichlid above in the unidentified board HERE and Fogelhound said he is positive that it is a Aulonocara koningsi

After searching the profiles last night I think that I have come to the conclusion that what I thought was an Aulonocara baenschi is really an Aulonocara sp. "Stuartgranti Maleri" (Chipoka)

So my tank line up really looks like this:

Lwanda 
Super Red Empress 
Aulonocara "Stuartgranti Maleri" Chipoka 
Tropheus sp. "Ikola" (Ikola) 
Red Zebra (very mild mannered) 
Aulonocara koningsi

Since my fish were eating prior to me starting treatment should I try to feed them to see if there are any symptoms developing? My empress seems to be experiencing labored breathing but I'm not sure if it is just me over reacting or if it is an issue.

I have turned up the heat, the temp of their water is now just below eighty and I have turned up the aeration . Is there a way for me to know/judge what is right on the air? I have a Penguin 660 power head in the corner of the tank that has an air intake. It has a decent spray of air bubbles coming out of it but it isn't bubbling up the tank by any means. I know that isn't something that I want to do.

Sorry I am rambling, I own a forum (completely unrelated to fish keeping) and I know how hard it is to answer questions when the information isn't complete.


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## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

So I had a long day today... I guess it is a good thing I work from home so I can keep an eye on things. I noticed my Red Empress hanging out at the top by the power head. I started looking at some of the other fish and noticed that their fins were nipped and so were his. The only two who's fins were fine were the lwanda and the zebra.

The zebra is now out of the tank and the empress doesn't have his nose stuck up in the corner of the tank anymore but he is still obviously not happy.

The fish that I thought was so mild mannered in the day must really be a terror at night. I have to wonder if he wasn't the cause of the whole problem to start with.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Why did you turn up the heat? I'd lower it gradually. Maybe you are thinking of heat and salt treatment for ich? You are just doing epsom salts for a laxative, right?


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## Super Red Empress (Jan 1, 2012)

Ugg... I read the old outdated article a couple times first before I started this thread and found out there was a newer updated artless.. The older one suggests that metro works better with the higher temps...



> Metronidazole works better at elevated temperatures (e.g., 80Ã¯Â¿Â½F), but aeration should be increased because the O2 content of water decreases with higher temperatures. Elevating the temperature of the water can be beneficial also because it increases the fish's metabolism and heightens its immune response, while also hastening the life cycle of the parasite, thereby shortening the time required to cure the fish. Ã¢â€"Â¡


I just got it stuck in my head that the temp should be raised.. I will lower it back down.

Yes, just for a laxative...


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