# 120 gallon species tank questions



## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

I have never kept any South American species in before, so I have no idea where to start. I have a 120 gallon tank with a 60" x 18" footprint. What SA fish can I keep as a species only tank? Is it possible to keep 5 or 6 Geo. altifrons? Also, if you could include the quantity of the fish for this set up it would also be appreciated. Spawning is a must in this equation as I find that the most interesting part of fish keeping.

Thanks, Todd.


----------



## GopherWacker93 (Feb 8, 2010)

You could keep a group of Geo. in a well planted tank with driftwood for hidding spots. they are hard to sex so your best bet is to buy 6 and let them pair off. As for other fish maby some dither fish for the Geo. but they are pretty aggressive toward other cichlids. 
Have you keep cichlids before?


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *Qaddiction*,

Sorry *GopherWacker93*, but I'm going to say to disregard most of your information.

Geos are eartheaters, they sift sand looking for small food particles. So they are a digging cichlid, and keeping digging cichlids in planted tanks is really a pointless exercise. This is from personal experience. You should try and and find as fine a substrate as possible, pool filter sand or play sand are both good choices. As for aquascape, driftwood and branches are fine. You might want to include some smooth river rocks that the geos can use as spawning platforms.

As a genus, Geos are pretty passive. Most aggression occurs withing thier own species grouping, this is called con-specific aggression. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, but as a whole geos are pretty passive towards other cichlids and tetras. This is not true for all eartheaters however. There are many other eartheater species, and quite a few of these can be much more aggressive than true geos, some of these species include those belonging to the Braziliensis complex, Acarichthys heckelii, and 'Geophagus' steindachneri.

There are many locational variants of Geopahgus altifrons, so the adult size of the fish can vary from locational variant to locational variant. Typically, altifrons grow to between 8 inches and 12 inches.

A group of 6 altifrons will be pushing it in a 5 foot tank. I do think a group of 6 "orange head" geos would be suitable for a 5 foot tank. These are a smaller growing species, maxing out between 5 inches and 7 inches TL. I also believe they are much nicer than most of the altifron variants.

Quite often, keeping tank mates with cichlids and spawning and raising fry is mutually exclusive. Tank mates will depend on which species of geo you decide to go with. In the past, I kept Laetacara curviceps and Apistogramma agassizii with my "orange heads" along with Lemon tetras, Blackline hockey stick tetras, Marbled hatchetfish, Dwarf pencilfish, corydoras jullii and royal whiptail catfish. Would I recommend this set up again. No.

Once you have decided on a geo species, then we can look more closely at tankmates.


----------



## GopherWacker93 (Feb 8, 2010)

I dont know much about geos. and im acctualy glad you came along or else i would of misinformed Qaddiction. Thanks we both learned something.


----------



## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks for the info DeadFishFloating. Just for background info, I am a huge Tanganyikan cichlid guy. I'm probably keeping 30 some species of them currently. I am also a member of an all species club and participate in the clubs BAP program. In order to obtain my Masters in cichlids I need to keep and spawn 12 different species of South Americans. With that said I am trying to free up two of these 120 gallon 5' tanks and learn some info on these fish so I don't cause any harm to them. I'm really not interested in a community tank or other tankmates. Mainly interested in a species tank that will function properly and the main goal is obviously to spawn them. Looking forward to experiencing the behavior of the South American cichlids.

So I am looking for a list of fish that I can keep succesfully in a species tank. I'll keep browsing the forum here. I just haven't seen much info on species tanks.

Thanks, Todd.


----------



## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Todd,....I advice you to buy discus. Your obviously already expirienced but keeping discus and breeding discus is one of the most exiting and at some points chaleging task. Once you kept discus I can assure you your way of dealing with fish and tanks will change. I'm convinced you will be more focused on the needs of the fish. You could buy 10 discus of 3 inch or larger. Grow them out to 4 1/2 inch and select the best 6 to 8. Eventually they will pair off and you can divide the tank into compartments holding a pair in each and sell off the non paired fish. A tank is easy divided by filter foam sheets for example. I advice German domesticated discus like alenquer, red turquoise, brilliant turquoise, santarem, red or blue snakeskin. Those are closer to wild brown/blue and are adaptable and easier to spawn as pigeon strains for example.

Dwarfs like Apisto and Bolivians are fun to spawn as well. A smaller chaleging but they have a very interesting brood care. Geophagus Steindachneri is also an interesting specie. They live in a harem and perform a very interesting brood care (mouth brooding). Like Peter mentioned,...G. Tapajos is also a very interesting specie.


----------



## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

I definitely think it will be a challenge. The biggest reason I have stayed away from South Americans is due to my local water. The ph comes out of the tap at 8.4. From what I have heard about discus is they can live and spawn in a higher ph, but the sperm from the male will not be able to penetrate the eggs in that hard of water. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

If I had your tank, this is what I'd get-

a pair of angelfish, a pair of severums or rotkeil, a pair of bolivian rams, a lot of corydoras, one really nice big sailfin placo, a couple of clown plecos, a couple of bushynose plecos, a large school of arulius barbs.

Wickedest tank ever.

You can easily break them up. A large pot in one lower corner for the sevs, a bunch of round boulders in the other for the rams, and a bunch of large swords or anubias or java fern growing up into one top corner for the angels. You could add a couple of pearl gouramis, in their own mellow top corner with floating plants, and likely breed all the fish in the tank if it were set up properly.,, except the barbs. They're just dithers... and you may not like them as they are rather large. You may prefer perhaps bleeding heart tetras.


----------



## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

I breed my discus on local tapwater with PH=8 and GH=9. Thats on the edge for breeding domesticated discus. There won't be many SA cichlids that can breed successfully on your tapwater. Nanacara anomela might and also "Geophagus" Brasiliensis. For breeding SA cichlids you might to soften the water with RO water and add some tannins (peat) to lower the PH.


----------



## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

> There won't be many SA cichlids that can breed successfully on your tapwater.


That's what I was afraid of, and why I have stayed away from South Americans. It's definitely going to be a challenge to get 12 species across 7 different genrea. I will need to search for some fish that already used to the water conditions.


----------



## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Bolivians might pull it off. Gymnogeophagus is also an interesting specie but they need a seasonal temperature change. Fish from the Brasilliensis group might pull it off as well but they are more temperament and need quit some space. Guianacara might pull it off as well and are quit adaptable. I suggest to stay away from the black water fish and concentrate on white water or fish from the coastal aria's. Those are often more adaptable to diferent water parameters. Good luck with finding highly adaptable species. To find your 12 species is a big challenge already,.....unless you are willing to buy a RO unit. That will solve all your "water" issues.


----------



## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks Dutch Dude! I'll start researching those species and areas you mentioned. I definitely was trying to stay away from any black water species. These two tanks I am lloking to switch over I do have access to add water that has come through my water softener. I'll have to run a PH test on it and see how it turns out. I would just need to add chemical to eliminate the chlorine while adding the water. That might help me out. I hope!


----------



## Flyfisher (Jan 5, 2010)

Hi,
I've been doing lots of research here and many other forums on exactly this subject.
What I've learnt from experienced SA cichlid keepers, and in particular eartheater keepers is as follows:-
if you like altifrons, there are 2 distinct diffent altifrons to choose from, and if correctly labelled they should read as either Geophagus Altifrons ......... OR Geophagus Altifrons aff. ..........
The ......... Should refer to the river of origin or possibly catch location if wild caught fish. The important part for you is the 'aff.'. This should be a smaller fish than the true altifrons which reaches up to 12inches, which is too big for your tank! But, the aff. Labelled Altifrons are much smaller and depending on river location they reach a max of between 6/7 and 8/9inches. Colouration can vary fromriver to river but this can also vary from tank to tank depending on water quality and chemistry. Brings me to the next important point I've learnt.

Don't be put of holding these fish because of your high ph. So long as your water quality is good (excellent over the top filtration, and regular large water changes) these fish can live happily in your water. That said, avoid the extremes and do your homework on species that seem harder to keep than others. It's been described to me that fish from outer amazon perimeter are easier to keep in hard water, but I've heard from many that nothing impossible andwater quaility is THE most important factor.

Breeding. This may be where you should choose carefully. If you but wild caught fish and acclimatise them to your water, they may live happily but breeding these fish will be a challenge and the chances are you won't succeed. If breeding is a priority for you I'd be tempted to go for the Geophagus Tapjos red/orangeheads. These have been bred in tanks successfully and seem to be very hardy and one of the easiest to breed in hard water. Brasiliensis and steindnacheri aparrently are easy to breed too but I personally don't go for the shape of these.
Tank size at 60x18 footprint will lend itself to the smaller geos too so tapajos red/orangeheads or another I quite like that stays around 6inches, Geophagus Pindare.

Don't follow suggestions of 3 pairs of various SA cichlids. That just makes for a tank like a circus or noahs fish ark lol. Stick with your plan of a group and 6 would be a good number, but 5 if you go for the aff. Altifrons.

http://www.eacichlid.co.uk/showthread.p ... =geophagus

this is a link that will help you ID geophagus. It has taugh me alot and the gentleman who wrote it is a huge font of knowledge on all things South American and in particular cichlids and eartheater cichlids. I know he ll be happy I've passed on this link and what I've learnt from him and many others here, there and elsewhere.

Please come back to me. I hope I've been of valuable help and would love to discuss tankmates etc with you too 

I've written this in a rush, apologies for any errors.

Regards,

Gavin


----------



## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

You also might want to look at fish from the Rio Ucayali drainage in Peru, the pH reaches over 8.0 in some of the feeding rivers, with a moderate hardness as well.


----------



## Qaddiction (Oct 16, 2007)

Thank you for the info and words of encouragement Flyfisher and dwarfpike! I appreciate everyone taking the time to read this thread and helping me out. I'll keep you posted on what I come up with and what comes up for sale in this area as far as South Americans go. Right now it looks like I have a chance at getting 2 different groups. The first is a pair of Guianacara geayi (Bandit or Panda cichlid). I've read they are a harem breeding fish, so I am not sure about them. Second, a group of 6 Gymnogeophagus Gymnogenys "royal Yerbolito" that are between 2"-4". I read a little about these guys and might give them a try. Now I need to go research the fish that come from the areas in which everyone has recommended. Thanks again, I'll keep you posted.


----------



## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi there,

I keep Guianacara for a couple of years now and dug up some info on the internet. Info is rare dough. I unfortunately never was able to breed mine becouse I ended up with 6 males. They are defenately no harem breeders but live in small famely like groups like most of the eartheaters. Within the groups they form pairs just like the orange heads. To get a pair you need to use the same method as for discus. Put 6 or more half grown fish in one tank and wait until they pair up. You can select the pair and put them in a breeding tank. For guianacara somewhere around 50 gallon where foot print is important. Guianacara are cave breeders and need a sand substrate. You can use the search function to find some Guianacara info.

It might be that discus can successfully breed in your tap water. Best chance is to find someone local that breeds domesticated discus in your aria. I'm not to fan of Stendker any more but I do admit their fish are adapted quit well to water with a higher PH and GH. Like I wrote,...I breed mine on PH=8. I would not want to rule out domesticated discus.

Have you checked the Gymnogeophagus group?

Good luck :thumb:


----------

