# Riparium as an intermediate sump?



## farmer (Apr 1, 2013)

Hi Everyone! I'm just getting into cichlids and after lurking for a few weeks (and learning tons! Thanks!), I figured I would post up the plan I have in mind.

I bought a 75 gallon tank off craigslist and am currently letting it cycle. I also have a 10 gallon, and am thinking of taking advantage of the $1 / gallon sale that is going on now at petco (if that is considered spam I will remove it). Anyways, my plan goes as follows: Fill the 75 g with habs / peacocks. Have that overflow into the 40 g that I'm planning to pick up. That tank will also be a riparium with a waterflall, something like this:









(note: I found this picture on the plantedtank.com forums. It isn't mine, although it is impressive)

With similar fish inside. Guppies, neons, I've been tossing around the idea of a few dwarf frogs. That will then overflow into the 10 g sump (possibly with ~half of it as a small refugium), which will be fed back into the 75 g by the cascade 1000 265 gph canister filter I got with the tank. The base of the 75 g is tempered so I can't drill for a overflow. I've already built a siphon overflow that is just waiting to be plumbed into the rest of the setup. The 40 g shouldn't be tempered, so I might drill that one, although a siphon might be easier.

Thoughts?

Also, I live in a remote area of NW Montana (well, remote for the lower 48. I used to live in Northern Canada and THAT was remote), so I'm limited to a very small local pet store that will be fine for the guppies & frogs that go in the riparium, but is lacking on anything else. Any bigger stores are 2-3 hrs away, and although I do make it into town every month or so, I see the need for buying online. What is recommended for online fish retailers? I've looked at some of the site sponsors / advertisers, but I don't know if there are any others, or site favorites that I haven't seen yet?


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## Stussi613 (May 8, 2009)

The only issue you will have is the water chemistry requirement differences between the cichlid tank and the riparium, IMO. Most guppies and neons won't thrive in higher ph water, so you may want to rethink the stocking you have in mind. Otherwise, great idea.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Another issue I see is are you only going to run the one cascade filter? If so, thats not a lot of turnover and with the overflow in the 75 you will not have anything 2/3 of the way down in the tank to act as an intake sucking up detritus.


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## farmer (Apr 1, 2013)

That's a good point k7. An undergravel filter isn't very expensive and would solve that.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

I'll make two minor points up front before I forget about them:

1. There is no need for an overflow to be plumbed into the bottom of a tank. You could easily drill the side or back of your 75G for an overflow.

2. An undergravel filter is a dirt trap, not a filter. I would strongly recommend against such a contraption. Better to use a powerhead or a undergravel jet system to keep moving detritus around until the filter picks it up.

A much more important point is that you should carefully research ripariums - if you have not already done so. How to set one up so the land part is dry but not too dry, and what plants you can use where in the setup is a more complex problem than many of us ever encounter in a cichlid tank. Regarding stocking, if you go with harder water from the Malawi setup, and can somehow make that work for plants, Endlers lifebearers (a type of guppy), can well tolerate that, as well as some of the Mexican swordtails and platies. Neons would be less ideal. Regarding frogs, there are some fully aquatic species of frogs, which I have never found the least bit attractive, but your mileage may vary. If the reason you are considering frogs is that you are looking for inhabitants of the land part, keep in mind that small frog species such as Poison Dart Frogs (PDF) are not good swimmers, and could drown in a riparium. They are also known to be escape artists, and how you make the tank escape proof - especially around the intake of water from the upper tank - needs to be carefully considered. Last but not least, PDFs require life food, so you better seed the tank with critters like wood lice and start breeding wingless fruit flies well before you get the frogs.

I am a huge fan of ripariums, and have repeatedly researched the concept, but in the end I have always stuck with aquariums, because they are so much less work!

Best of luck, and please do keep us up to date on your project.


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## farmer (Apr 1, 2013)

You're probably right. It wouldn't be too much work to plumb the outflow of my filter down into an undergravel jet.

I was just thinking about the small, fully aquatic, african dwarf frogs. We always had them in our tank when I was young, and I find them very cool. YMMV. I'm just going to stick to cheap stock in the riparium.

As for plants, I live in the wettest part of the state. It doesn't rain quite as much as when I lived on the coast, but it is **** close. A bucket and shovel should be all I need.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

After writing my above response, I thought about this a bit longer - probably because I have always been intrigued by ripariums. I am kind of a lazy filter cleaner, which is why I tend to oversize filters, and clean them twice per year. I have a 90G sump on my 240G, and an Eheim 2260 on my 125G. To make a long story short, when picturing the job of having to clean the gunk I typically take out of my filters out of a riparium, it didn't appear like a task I would ever want to face




farmer said:


> A bucket and shovel should be all I need.


I see. It seems like _farmer_ isn't just a screen name for you 

I can only repeat my advice to do more research about ripariums before you set one up. From what I read, combined with some of my own limited plant growing experience, I would predict that trying to grow native Montana plants in a setup with tropical temperatures will be about as much fun as keeping trout in a goldfish bowl!


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## farmer (Apr 1, 2013)

This area is much more like the west coast than most of Montana, although the state is so diverse I don't really know that there is a "normal"

We're around 1900 ft, with temperatures that rarely drop below 0F, vs places like Rogers Pass (5 hrs east) which holds the record for the lowest temp in the lower 48. My plans for plants are mostly moss and ferns, which although they can survive the winter, they do best in the late spring and early fall, when temperatures are in the 70's and very humid. I don't know for sure if I can find them here, but some of black maidenhair ferns would do great. They get ~6-8" tall, look very cool with delicate leaves and a very thin black stock.

In fact, if I can find some cedar deadfall, I think cedar back may be a good option for the background. Give the riparium a west coast feel. I have been researching them, and it seems that many people put a small fog machine in as well.

The good thing about wild plants is I have nothing but a short walk invested, so if they don't work out of well.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

The plants might need a cool period to thrive, but if you can easily get new ones for free, that might not be your biggest worry. I'd love to see photos once you have a setup going!


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Hit up Hydrophyte on this. He runs a riparium business, and is very educated on this topic.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=60481


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## farmer (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks. Here is Hydrophyte's awesome thread on ripariums: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=205654


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