# Help me with my convict project



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

So the overall goal of this project is to get a breeding pair of convicts, i have always liked them and finally found a use for my spare tank.

*Tank*- A 40 gallon breeder, i believe the deminsions are 36L 18W and 17.5T
*Substrate/Decor*- For substrate i plan on using around 20lbs of pool filter sand, probably the darker colored one. (Opinions are welcome here, color, amount of sand, etc). For decor and hidey holes i plan on using some rock from a nearby resevoir, i believe it is limestone but i am not entirely sure. The pieces range from a quarter size to boulders, and from being flat to circular (these will be boiled and/or bleached before adding to the tank).
*Filtration*- Marineland 350gph dual biowheel hob filter, and i may add a small powerhead for movement.
*Stocking*- I was planning on starting with 6 convicts, some are marble and some are regular black and white. Then maybe a small school (5 or 6) tiger barbs for a while.

Now for some additional questions
The filter i am planning on using is identical to one i am using on my 55 gallon, if i use the media pads from the filter on my 55 gallon and maybe a piece of driftwood or 2 along with the tiger barbs, how long would it take for me to cycle? And when could i add fish (the convicts)?

I have read on line that convicts tolerate water temps from 72-86 degrees. The room that the tank would be in stays around 73 to 74 degrees. Will i still need to have a heater in the tank? If so, then i will plan on 78 degrees for the water.

And would one pair of convicts be suitable for this size tank? I read that they max around 6 inches for a male.

Thoughts, opinions, suggestions are all welcome. 
Thank you all for your time!


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

I would also put in some clay pots. My cons love to lay eggs on the ceiling of those.

I'd pick the color substrate that'd make the fish pop. Since they're so dark, you might want to go lighter?

In a 40b, I think you could do 2 pairs, maybe 3 even. It depends on the size of the fish (if they're more the max on con size, you'd have to do less) and the over all aggression. I've had some that were more laid back (allowed dithers to swim freely even when breeding), and then the ones I have currently which eventually killed all of their dithers over the course of several months. They even bicker amongst themselves (Mom often doesn't let Dad guard).

Cons tend to be on the more aggressive side when breeding, but there are variations in behavior. But this sounds like a nice project. Of all my fish, cons are the easiest fish to breed.

I only have one pair currently (female 1.5" (never grew after first brood), male 3-3.5"). They generally breed once a month, get approximately 60-100 wrigglers. However, since their tank is only a 29h, they slowly pick off their babies until there's like a dozen. Then there's massive fighting between the pair. I assume they each blame the other for eating the babies. Upon which, I have to remove the free swimming babies (usually to save the male's hide--I've got one tough female :thumb: )).

If you want the most fry, you should remove them to a fry tank once they're mostly free swimming (will still be hard to see if you have a dark substrate like mine).

Good luck!


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## Elijah (Mar 30, 2011)

sirnewb said:


> Now for some additional questions
> The filter i am planning on using is identical to one i am using on my 55 gallon, if i use the media pads from the filter on my 55 gallon and maybe a piece of driftwood or 2 along with the tiger barbs, how long would it take for me to cycle? And when could i add fish (the convicts)?


I'd say a few days and you should be good. From my personal experience, tiger barbs have no fear when it is feeding time. If the con parents take even a moment's break, they'll pick off a few fry.



> I have read on line that convicts tolerate water temps from 72-86 degrees. The room that the tank would be in stays around 73 to 74 degrees. Will i still need to have a heater in the tank? If so, then i will plan on 78 degrees for the water.


Yes you will need a heater. I think raising the temp a bit puts them in the mood. I have mine at 81.



> And would one pair of convicts be suitable for this size tank? I read that they max around 6 inches for a male.


After you have found a couple who paired off, I would return the others. The con parents will love having a 40 breeder, if you have more then 1 pair, they'll probably be constant fighting.

Good luck sirnewb :thumb:


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## Bamboo (Jan 12, 2011)

I had a pair I had bought and brought home , during transit , they spawned and layed eggs in the bag .


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

:lol: :lol:


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

Bamboo said:


> I had a pair I had bought and brought home , during transit , they spawned and layed eggs in the bag .


This is an AMAZING story, but I have a hard time believing it haha, even though that is their reputation...


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## smitty (May 7, 2004)

It should only take a couple of days to cycle. I do not think you will need a heater. However they may not spawn at the lower temps. Matter of fact they more than likely will not spawn at the lower temps.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

My convicts spawned with no heater. My apartment stays around 75-76 during the day and drops down to 70-72 during the night because I like it cold when I sleep 

Took them two days to spawn after I introduced them to the tank, they are now tending wrigglers.


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

Just put the entire used filter on the 40g and the new one on the other tank.

Two pairs will be OK on a 40g. Fun to watch them fend off enemies. Put caves at both ends and plants, rock, wood in the center to divide it. 6 tiger barbs are a good idea. You will need something to eat all the fry you will have.


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

So I will definately add a heater to this tank then and start with 78 degrees and work from there. 
As far as setup goes, I'm not too sure on how I want to do this. I was thinking of a pot in one of the back corners with plants sort off hiding the pot as much possible. Then use rock work from the resivoir and some driftwood from my established tank. I'll post pics as soon as I get the tank clean and ready for setup. I can't decide what to do as far as a background. I have a tape on background that is blue on one side and black on the other, but I have been playing with the idea of just painting the back ground on, or maybe trying to find an interesting one at petsmart.... suggestions please.

When it comes to cleaning the sand, is it the same as I did with thr gravel? Just place the sand in a bucket and rinse it out? Also what type of plants would be suitable with convicts? I want a pretty tank to look at, and one that catches your eye.

As far as fry control, that is one reason I am using tiger bars, I hear good things about them. I also have a jd and gt who would love to snack on them, and a friend of mine has a jag who would love them too.

And 2 pairs of convicts? Wouldn't that be cramped for them in the 40? Just trying to clarify, not argue or disreguard your posts

Any other info you think I need?


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

Oh, and one more question. I realized that all the convicts I would be picking up are from the same batch of fry. So they are all siblings. If I picked them up and put them in my tank, wouldn't I have some fishing inbreeding here? Lol
Does that even matter with fish lol?


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## Elijah (Mar 30, 2011)

sirnewb said:


> Oh, and one more question. I realized that all the convicts I would be picking up are from the same batch of fry. So they are all siblings. If I picked them up and put them in my tank, wouldn't I have some fishing inbreeding here? Lol
> Does that even matter with fish lol?


That was the prime motivator for me to purchase my cons separately; from 2 different establishments at different times. But I went against convential wisdom doing that; that's probably why my couple has arguements often and hence, I have to separate them for a week or so. This wouldn't happen if I bought a handful and let them pair off.

Fish aren't like humans, so a fish won't come out with 2 heads or anything. But if it is deformed, the parents will naturally cull them; they weed out the weak. Inbreeding doesn't matter as much with fish as it does with other species.


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## Elijah (Mar 30, 2011)

sirnewb said:


> I can't decide what to do as far as a background. I have a tape on background that is blue on one side and black on the other, but I have been playing with the idea of just painting the back ground on, or maybe trying to find an interesting one at petsmart.... suggestions please.


Well in my 20 long, I painted the back jet black. If I would do it again, I would just buy a background. Because if you want a change of scenery, paint is more troublesome to remove then just changing a paper background. In my other 20, I put a roll of limo black window tint on, and I am content with it.



> And 2 pairs of convicts? Wouldn't that be cramped for them in the 40? Just trying to clarify, not argue or disreguard your posts


It won't be too cramped, as 40 breeders are long and wide. But like I said, they'll be alot of fighting going on. It'll be like American Gladiators in your tank. Some say go ahead and put more in, I think 1 couple is enough. I guess I am in the minority on this.



> Any other info you think I need?


Never, ever stick a tape measure up to the glass to get their measurement. The reason I'm saying this is I did, and it scared the bejesus out of my cons- they still are somewhat scared of me and this happened weeks ago!


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

So here is the tank as is, with pfs and 5 tiget barbs. Please excuse the ghetto coffee table stand lol


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

I also found this piece of wood at the lake while looking for rocks, i would like imput on what you guys/gals think. It will take up most the tank and i can put a clay pot in the back right corner under the heater, then i was planning on adding live plants in with the mix. My only fear is that the wood is too much for a tank this size and finding my fish may be difficult. I also picked up a collection of rocks that i could use instead of the wood.
































I would most likely use it the way it looks in the second picture, opinions are greatly appreciated.


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

That wood will look great in there. The fish will like the branches. Nice find.

The largest Cichlid Stone from Kens Fish are awesome and look much better than pots. The small single opening is easy to defend. They are like "Love Shacks" and work amazing for breeding.

....Bill


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks monte, I am pretty sure it will sink and not leach any tannins (hopefully) but as you can tell its far too big to boil. So I was thinking of bleaching it unless you know of other ways to clean/disinfect it.
I'm also worried about how tough it will make cleaning the tank, because I guess you have to move sand in order to release gasses from it?
Also, what are some good looking plants that wouldn't get torn up too bad from these fish?


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

You will need to weigh it down or it will float. Just clean in a sink as best you can with just water by hand. No need to boil or disinfect.

I have heard of gas in sand but never seen it and would not be worried about it.

....Bill


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

So this is now how the tank looks, the wood didnt sink completely but it is wedged in and that rock is holding down the other end, an insane amount of air is coming out of the wood, so i believe it will sink once water logged.
Once again, opinions are greatly welcomed!!!

























Here are some of the extra rocks that i doubt i will use, but yea...

















And once again, any and all opinions are welcomed and encouraged. If you know anything about some live plants that will thrive in the tank and not get destroyed, please add that as well.
Thank you all for reading and posting while i went through this process.

I will be picking up 6 convicts tomorrow, they are around 2 inches at the moment. So any info on how to sex them would be amazing!!!


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

Females typically have orange spangling on their bellies, males typically don't. Good luck!


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

Well I went and picked up these little guys, and they were a lot smaller than I had thought they would be, but oh well, I got 6 of em so hopefully I can get a pair. I saw the parent fish and they have fantastic genes it looks like.
The current stock is 6 convicts, and 5 tiger barbs. I thought about adding some cories and a small pleco. I also added some dense plants around the rock in the photo so hopefully they will spawn there. I plan on adding more plants to add sight breaks, hopefully it can get them to grow up through the driftwood.
Anyways thanks to all of you, I will start a new thread or revive this one once spawning activity happens.


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## luluxiu (Aug 2, 2011)

It should only take twelve days cycle. I do not think you need a water heater. But they may not spawn in the lower temporary workers. In fact, the more things they may not spawn in the lower temporary workers.


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## babarian16 (Apr 27, 2011)

nice set-up so far, can't wait to see the final product with the cons 
One thing that I discovered and really like is using some of the plants the recommend for reptiles (fake ones). They have some with a suction pad so you stick it to the glass and it hangs down. Its a great hide out for any fish that is stressed or under attack.










Just an idea..


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, 2 of the tiger barbs were killed and one was badly beaten. So I guess I won't keep anything with these little guys. Its weird too, the barbs were way larger than the convicts. Three of them are chilling by the rocks, 2 are the largest of the bunch and they allow one of the other convicts back there with them....sometimes, but usually 4 of the convicts school together and the 2 larger ones are by the rock most of the time. I haven't seen any breeding behavior or activity, and I think they are way too small to breed.


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

So this is how it looks now, i added the plants to the tank and got a new light (colormax)
I am hoping that the swords grow up through the driftwood and expand out, they are "mini" so they supposably (spelling?) wont get about 12 inches tall.


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## brodes7 (Apr 10, 2011)

MonteSS said:


> The largest Cichlid Stone from Kens Fish are awesome and look much better than pots. The small single opening is easy to defend. They are like "Love Shacks" and work amazing for breeding.
> 
> ....Bill


couldn't agree more my cons have one and its really easy for them to defend.
p.s i think your tank looks good


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

I'm really envious of that driftwood... And I'd say to get some more tiger barbs! Otherwise I think it looks awesome, and I second the cichlid stones, my cons LOVED them (always spawned in them)


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks brodes, its still a process though. I still want to add some more plants and mess with other rocks. And thanks chubbs, go look in your local lakes when they are being drained and I'm sure you can find something nice, that's where I got the rocks and wood lol.


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

All my rocks are from the local beaches (I'm on Long Island so very few local lakes by me, just beaches) But I'm going to look regardless, I need a few good rocks anyways haha


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

But you have the ocean to look at and swim in lol. Doesn't wood drift up on the beaches too?


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

Alright so I don't know to do as dither fish. All the tiger barbs are now dead, like killed dead, no eyes or anything.
Suggestions??


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

Giant danios might be another option... If that doesn't work.... EXODONS!!! :dancing: :dancing: :dancing:


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

I have giant danios in my 55 and love them, I just wanted to try something different, that's why I tried barbs. What are exodons?


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

Look them up haha, I wasn't serious... Seriously though you could leave the cons alone for a bit and see who is the aggressors in the group, remove the aggressors, and buy larger tiger barbs after you remove the aggressive cons


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## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

How small can cons be when they pair up?
I have 2 right now that always swim next to each other and will chase anything that gets near them. I believe the larger of the 2 is male, he is roughly 2 inches. This little guy chases everything and sort of herdes the other fish(I believe female) around. He has what looks to be a small hump growing on his head, but I figured he was too small to develop that. The female is maybe an inch and a half, she has very dark stripes and a mostly black face, no orange on her belly. She will chase the fish her size and smaller, but if anything messes with her, the male goes nuts and chases that fish around. 
The (believed) pair has held up one side of my tank and won't let any other fish cross except at feeding time. These 2 fish are always next to each other and sometimes to the occasional tail slap/flare out, but don't ever fight, then they retreat to where I believe they will have eggs once they are large enough.


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## babarian16 (Apr 27, 2011)

Thats the same kind of behaviour my pair was doing and they were no bigger than yours, maybe even smaller. They had their first brood of eggs a week later. If they are indeed male and female I would say to expect eggs within a week to a month.


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## lgt2323 (Aug 12, 2011)

See if you have any head shaking going on. my pair of lil dempseys are always by each other and i believe the female gets the shakes. keep up the good work homie


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