# Changing substrate on a tank with high nitrates



## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

Im maintaining this tank for a customer of mine. Cichlid tank 72 gallons. Decently stocked. Its already been running about 6 months to a year before i started servicing it. Recently i did a full filter insert change because his previous guy did not touch the filter for over 6 months (i know but it had to be done everything was filthy). This restarted the whole nitrogen cycle. So recently he added 4 more fish without my approval which raised the nitrates again, it was tested today.

Now he wants to change his substrate and all the rocks etc. You guys think it would be safer to bring the nitrate levels down first before changing the substrate etc ?? I told him to do a partial water change tonight 25 percent just removing water (he doesnt know how to use a syphon).

Thoughts ? Fish look healthy eatting etc. He just lost 3 fish a few days ago which im assuming is cause of the nitrates of the addition of his 4 new fish.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Nitrates don't kill fish ammonia does, changing the filters was a bad idea and so is changing the rocks and substrate at this point. You need to get something to help cycle the tank again like a Tetra safeStart or equivalent or you could lose more fish. 25 percent water changes are not enough to battle high nitrates, 50% changes every 2 days will help to get levels in check then you can get on a weekly regimen of 30 percent. After about 4 weeks the filter will be fully cycled you can then change out the rocks and substrate.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Good advice above.

What are the water readings? Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

What's the filtration? Gph per hour. How many filters?

Something I have used before is Dr. Tims One and Only. It will get the cycle taken care of within a day or two.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I understand the need to change the filthy filter inserts, I would have done the same thing and it sounds as if it couldn't be helped given the situation.

The additional info asked above is necessary to know how to proceed.


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

walzon1 said:


> Nitrates don't kill fish ammonia does, changing the filters was a bad idea and so is changing the rocks and substrate at this point. You need to get something to help cycle the tank again like a Tetra safeStart or equivalent or you could lose more fish. 25 percent water changes are not enough to battle high nitrates, 50% changes every 2 days will help to get levels in check then you can get on a weekly regimen of 30 percent. After about 4 weeks the filter will be fully cycled you can then change out the rocks and substrate.


Thanks for the reply. I know nitrates dont kill fish but in high amounts in can be just as toxic. Reason why i changed most of the filter media was cause everything was clogged. The water was getting bypassed and i feel as though changing it would be better for the fish. I left the foam sponges in to leave some bacteria in there.

Im going today to do a 50% water change and im gonna add some stability or safestart. The thing is i dont wanna charge the guy to do a wwater change every 2 days ya know. I dont think hes willing to pay that kind of money. But i will talk to him and see if i can drop by in a few days again to do the water change for a smaller fee.


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Good advice above.
> 
> What are the water readings? Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
> 
> ...


Everything is perfect. Except high nitrates. He used the test strips by API and its pretty pink.

Filter is a 406 Canister by Fluval on a 72 gallon tank.


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

Deeda said:


> I understand the need to change the filthy filter inserts, I would have done the same thing and it sounds as if it couldn't be helped given the situation.
> 
> The additional info asked above is necessary to know how to proceed.


Honestly i work in this industry and have never seen inserts this dirty. Which is why i made this decision. The water was getting by passed going around the inserts as opposed to through it.

Right now i think im gonna work with the tank getting the nitrates down and through the cycle phase ... if i need to drop by his house again in a few days i will. THen we can move on to re set up the tank.


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

Im leaving in a couple hours to do probably a 40 percent water change. Now would you guys recommend messing with the filter and change his carbon media at least or just leave it ?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I don't think API makes ammonia test strips. Strips are inaccurate anyways. Before you change any water, test for ammo, nitrite and nitrate with liquid test kit.

If you have 80 nitrate, a 50% change will knock it to 40 ppm. I would change enough water to get nitrate below 10 ppm. Check nitrate everyday afterwards to see how fast it climbs. Change water as it approaches 20.

Sounds to me like the tank is no longer cycled though.


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

Ammonia was tested as well with their API test strip and its 0. He doesnt own liquid test kits.

Ya i think the tank needs to get cycled again .. im gonna do a 50% change today then add some stability. Then maybe go back again sunday to do another 50. All this cause i think he added too many fish too quickly after the filter change. Well a combination of both.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Seems like you got it under control, dealing with people that have little knowledge of fish care can be tough.


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

thanks !!! I know i was surprised he just dumped 5 fish in right away like that without asking me.

I was excited to switch out the substrate and re aquascape the tank but it looks like its gonna have to wait lol.


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

Did a 50 percent water change and added stability on the new tank. Water is pretty clear which is good.

On his other small community tank i did a 50 as well. When i was filling it up i noticed one of his kribensis twitching and it literally almost jumped out of the tank. This was when the tank was almost full. I had the tap set to luke warm. And i go and feel the water its hot. SO i hooked up the filter and turned it on quickly in hopes the cooler water in the canister would cool things down. I took out the dead kribensis while he was on the phone lol. He didnt notice anything. Talk about panic.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

When doing a normal WC I like to add straight cold water from the tap, when not doing huge changes. Been there, done that. Not to the extent of losing a fish, but like 'holy ****!'


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

A little update guys. He sent me the results of a water test. Everything is good except once again high nitrates. He pulled out 2 fish the day after the big water change i did.

I suggested that we just swap the substrate and put in new rocks and go from there instead of him wasting his money on me servicing his tank every week just to get the nitrates down before we can do the swap. I know nitrates dont kill fish but he has fairly high nitrates. Im not sure if thats the culprit here or what. What do you guys think ??? Or is it the best interest for the fish to keep trying to fight the high nitrates before changing the substrate and adding rocks??


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

What was the exact ammonia reading?


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

its hard to tell 100 percent cause he sent me a pic of the test strip. It looks yellowish near the 0 mark.

So he wants me to come over to change the substrate tomorrow and put in new rocks. My plan is tear everything down keep as much water as possible. Wash the sand put the sand in and aquascape the tank. Fill it up with about 60 percent old water and the rest new water. Put a couple hand fulls of gravel in a filter media bag to seed the bacteria. I dont think i will mess with the filter at this point cause i just changed ALL the media about a month ago cause it hasnt been done in over a year.

What do you guys think ?? I know its best to change the substrate gradually but i doubt he wants to pay me multiple visits just for this.


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## Kalost (Feb 27, 2013)

get er done.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

It boils down to whether or not there's enough bacteria in the filtration and elsewhere to support the bio load of the tank once the substrate and rocks have been replaced. Assuming that there's currently 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite, it should be fine. It's been a month since the filter media change correct?
If it were me, I'd do the change, then monitor ammonia/nitrite daily for the next 7-10 days. Ideally though, I'd perform daily small-medium water changes over a few days first.


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

Cool thanks guys !!!

I will be dosing with stability again to get things under control hopefully.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

You havent said what kind of substrate is even in it. Gravel traps a ton of detritus in it. Are you changing to sand? I would schedule to change the substrate on one visit and the rocks on another two weeks later. Honestly though if he is feeding heavy, I don't think you will ever get past the high nitrate issue with water changes only every two weeks or more.


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

I just read the post below... Are you the guy that is servicing this guys tank??

Funny that you both ended up here posting about the same tank...

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=273425


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I doubt they are the tank owner and the service guy considering their different locations but they do seem to share similar tank issues.


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

Nope different tanks lol.

Did the swap today took me 4 hours. Took a good 2 hours prepping the aragonite. And im happy with the way it turned out. It wasnt as cloudy was i expected. Added the fish in and they started swimming right away and didnt seem to stressed. Owner was happy over all.


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## Kalost (Feb 27, 2013)

Good job, good to hear it worked out


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

testeve said:


> I just read the post below... Are you the guy that is servicing this guys tank??
> 
> Funny that you both ended up here posting about the same tank...
> 
> viewtopic.php?f=8&t=273425


I was thinking the same thing earlier in the day. Like the '4' new fish, servicing, etc. Small world... kinda


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## Bminnow (Sep 4, 2013)

I hope things worked out for you. I agree with above poster that your client may be over feeding, next time your over try to be there at feeding time so that you can see what he is doing and make any suggestions need. Show him exactly how little you need to feed. If he feeds a variety have him talk you through amounts of each one. IMO he should be taught how to vac his sustrate to. (For emergency pourposes)
If you havnt aleady stress the importance of liquid test kits. The only person in my area offering aqarium service that i would allow to work on mine wont accept pink as a test result. He will come between weekly visits and do tests for a nominal fee, and the customer quickly sees it cheaper to get the proper test kits. He does educate the importance of the proper kits, but some people just dont get it till you get them in the pocket book lol. If you have the rappor with your client buy the kit your self and bill him.
If this is a service that you offer to others i trust you have your own liquid kits, thermometer and various other things that you take with you and use. If no, i might suggest doing so. This will help with customers using proper equipment, people always wanna use what the pros use lol. Sorry so long winded but hope it helps and good luck


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## boosted_sin (Aug 30, 2013)

This is actually the only customers tank that im servicing at the moment. I instructed him to only feed whatever the fish can consume within 30 seconds. Youre right that might be an issue causing nitrates cause most of the filter media is new and brand new sand and rocks have just been added. A nylon bag full of the old gravel was left in the tank. The bacteria should have reproduced enough to support the amount of bioload he has right now which is about a dozen fish. Regardless i have told him to keep dosing a bacteria supplement for a week until i come back in about 3 weeks time to start doing regular water changes.


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