# Advice on my recently acquired Gymnogeophagus



## CHK (Jan 12, 2007)

Hi all,

I just recently moved and am setting up all over again :?

I was at the LFS 3 days ago and they had on sale F1 Gymnogeophagus rhabdotus "Frayle Muerto"s. This is exciting cos I have never seem gymnos for sale before (ok ok, I havent seen much  ). So anyway I returned with 4 of them together with a couple of F0 Australoheros "red ceibal". Yeah and it was an impulse buy.....

Anyhow, my questions is related to Dutch_Dude's reply at the other Gymno post by duaneS. Dutch_dude mentioned that they needed some months in the 50s each year for proper growth. Right now, in texas, there isnt much of a choice. I can switch off the heater and it may drop to low 70s but thats about it. Does anyone know if thats going to be a problem?? Any suggestions?

Thanks!

I attach the pics of the new guys, sorry for the off focus... they move fast.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Great pickup *CHK*. I'm very jealous.

What are your temperatures like from November through to the end of January?

Ruurd is probably the best person here to talk about gymno's, or you visit the CRC forum where there a couple of breeders of gymnos hang out and Felipe Cantera, one of the only two people allowed to export from Uruguay and runs an eco-tourism company AQVA Terra.

OH and there was a recent discussion on the CRC forum about Australoheros sp. "Red Ceibal"

They'll need that cool period as well.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi,

At CRC you can also contact Bas Pels. He breeds and keeps several species of Gymno's as well as the Australoheros. Australoheros and Gymno's can't be mixed as far as I know. In the wharm season adult and semi adult Australoheros become agresive especialy at breeding time!!! Some species of Gymno's can be mixed like Meridionalis/ Rhabdotus and Gymnogenys.

Abouth the seasonal change,....this is of great importance of the Gymno's as well as the Australoheros. In the cool period the fish have a rest period and start to regenerate. When the temps slowely increase in the spring the fish become more active again and start to breed. When not given an appropriate cool period the colors fade and the fish looked washed out. They don't regenerate ad become old very very fast. Without a proper cool period they won't even come close to their normal live span. They should be for a period of abouth 3 months at an average temp of 60F and it would be nice if there were also a couple of day's of 50 to 54 among them. There is one specie that can do a short cool period of abouth 4 weeks at 64 and that G. Balzanii. Your Uruguayan fish need the low temps. The temps during summer should not be more as 76 although they can handle higher temps during short periods of several day's.

I'm not experienced in keeping the Gymno's becouse I didn't succeed on buying some good qualety specimens. I did take a lot of afford on gathering info on them and talk to experienced people like Bas Pels and Felipe Cantera.

I don't have much info on your climate but as far as I know the temps are to high for gymno's unless you buy a cooler for the tank or maybe keeping them in a pond like the previous poster. If it will be a pond make sure it has a lot of shaded aria's so the water temp won't rise to high by the sun light.

Gymno's are magnificent fish and very interesting becouse of their special care and rareness.

I hope this helps.

Ruurd


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Just on a side note...that last picture is not a Gymnogeo.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

No that's his Australoheros "red ceibal" he mentions in the second paragraph.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Lol gotcha. Sorry, I only skimmed over and got sidetracked by the pretty pictures...I should stay away from forums at 6 a.m. :lol:


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## CHK (Jan 12, 2007)

Thanks DFF for the clarification :wink: Yeah thats the Red Ceibal. I only got 2 though, so I may not even get a mated pair.

DFF: The temperatures in Houston do drop to below 10C at nights over the Nov-Feb months. However, I stay in an apartment, so cannot afford to place the tanks outside. Lets see, if it comes to the crunch, I may place an air pump outside to draw cool air into the tank through the sponge filter. :?

Ruurd, thanks for your info  . I will try to get in touch with Bas Pels then - I do occasionally skim over the CRC forums. The Australoheros I intend to keep with the Gymnos are the ones that I keep which seem to stay small (male below 5"). During breeding, they do get aggressive and I am hoping that the space afforded by a 55G with tons of driftwood can provide cover - fingers crossed! Hopefully I can attain my dream goal of that SA tank I am picturing :roll:

I agree that Gymnos are really interesting fish. So much activity and inquisitiveness. If and when I get them to spawn I will post updates 

Chong


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *CHK*,

Your winter temperatures should be fine then.

What many gymno keepers suggest you do is set your tank up next to a window in a room where you can leave the window open during winter. Obviously you have to keep the door to this room closed to the rest of the unit so you don't chill the whole unit. Not very practical I know, and often not really possible.

As for mixing the Australoheros and Gymnos in a 55 gallon tank. At the end of the day a 55g tank really isn't that big, even with some good aquascaping. I used to have a 6 foot, 160 gallon SA community tank* that had lots of plants and driftwood. I had one male apisto hunt down and kill another male apisto in that tank, that's two 2 inch cichlids in a 72 inch tank, and the tank wasn't big enough for them to share. Another example, my male L. dorsigera just killed my male A. macmasteri  two days ago, that's a couple of 3 inch cichlids in a 36 inch tank.

I would definately look at buying a new tank before your Australoheros mature. Hey, having two 55g SA tanks is never a bad thing. :wink:

*That's the old me before the name change.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Chong,

The Australoheros are magnificent fish and especially in breeding dress but from what I have been told by Bas they are aggressive fish and not suitable to mix with Gymno's. He keeps the Australoheros in tanks on their own.

The Gymno's from the Rhabdotus complex like yours do best in small groups of 5 or more. They aren't harem builders like the Gymnogenys but live in family like groups. They can be mixed with Gymnogenys but your tank is a bit to small for that. Perfect would be 5 to 6 Rhabdotus and thats it. During the cool period they are relaxed fish but in spring their breeding temper should give some more quarreling.

The temp of 10C would be perfect to keep them in a pond!!! They would breed in there for sure! Does your apartment have a balcony? If so you could set up a basin or tank to give them the cool period of 3 months and put them back into your tank in the living room. Over here the method Peter (DFF) described is often used. Our winters are to cold to leave them in a pond. Most keeping them in an unheated spare bedroom or cellar with the possibility to lower the temp by opening a window. I can imagine this is a problem for your situation. If your apartment does have a bedroom with a window you could keep them in there. Sleeps best in cool temperatures and you could close the window during the night and open it during the day when your off to work. Most important is the average temp in the tank. Some equipment like tube lights also create heat. This heat should be limited so if you put the tank close to the window the incoming daylight might be enough during the cool period and for that no need of turning the lights on. Keep in mind that during summer the window creates a higher temperature. You can solve this problem with 2 tanks. One in the spare bedroom (30 gallon should be sufficient during the cool period) and the 55 in the living room that will be the display tank were the fish spend most of the year. This also gives the possibility to give them some tankmates (in the 55) like green fire tetra (A. Rhadbundi) and close related A. aniesitsi as well as Cheatostoma species for algea control. Make sure the (55 tank) keeps its temp at 18C or higher becouse this is abouth the lower limit for mentioned tankmates. You could also add cherry shrimp and I can assure they handle 18C just fine and even breed at those low temps.

I guess you have something to think abouth right now :wink: I do suggest to separate the gymno's from the Australoheros or even return the Australoheros (A 55 would be to small for a breeding couple by there own imo).

Also check this,....http://www.aqvaterra.com/index.php and check cichlids.


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## CHK (Jan 12, 2007)

Dutch Dude said:


> I guess you have something to think abouth right now :wink: I do suggest to separate the gymno's from the Australoheros or even return the Australoheros (A 55 would be to small for a breeding couple by there own imo).
> 
> Also check this,....http://www.aqvaterra.com/index.php and check cichlids.


Yes, Ruurd, definitely something to think about : :roll: ..... And thanks so much for the info. Hmm... maybe I'll get another couple of rhabdotus to bring the total to 6. I do not have a balcony right now with my apartment. I'll find a way to get around it though. Perhaps this year I'll keep them indoors till we move to a larger place next year.

As for mixing with the Australoheros, I'll remove the "red ceibal"s to another tank as they get larger. However, not to contradict you, the A. "oblongum"s that I have do not seem to be as aggressive - I have succeeded in breeding them in a 10 gallon (I kinda didnt have a choice at that time as I was out of tanks and used their larger tank temporarily for growouts). I speak only for the one species I have experience with, and Bas would still be the authority on chanchitos.

For now, as juveniles, I'll keep the gymnos and australoheros together. However, keeping your excellent advice (both Ruurd and Peter) in mind, I'll prepare another tank so in a necessary event, there is space to expand.

So exciting when you get new fish with interesting requirements


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

For now they be just fine but when the Australoheros become adult I expect some troubles. I suggest to put them at least in an unheated tank for the time being. At lower temps they should decrease in temper. Lower temps also should decrease aging but they should be provided a cool period of 3 months. I also think 10 gallon is way to small for Australoheros.



> So exciting when you get new fish with interesting requirements


Definitely the case!!! Both are beautiful species and the requirements make them even more interesting! Unfortunately 1 1/2 year waiting was to long for me so I went on, rescaped the tank and got me 6 nice red/turquoise discus :wink: Maybe I will pursue some Gymno's in the future becouse they still have my atention.

I'm sure Bas and Felipe will help you out on extra info. They are both experts on them. Felipe on their natural habitat and Bas on maintaining them in an aquarium. I like to see some pics in the future of the tank and the adult fish :wink:

Ruurd


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

I keep my Gymnogeos and chanchitos in unheated, bottom (near the basement floor) tanks in the winter. It's probably low-mid 60's. They seem to do great and indeed do start breeding whenever you up the temperature (in the spring).

Chanchitos (I have the sp. "local") can get pretty when they breed, especially as they reach 4-5" full size.


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