# Demasoni why difficulty level 4?



## schwartzfamily6 (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm currently considering stocking Demasoni and i'm curious as to what characteristics make it a difficulty level 4?


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I've never kept demasoni but have been coming to this forum long enough to have learned a bit about them :lol:

I would say the difficulty level is so high because of their conspecific aggression (aggression toward their own kind/species). Because they are so aggressive to each other, it's recommended that you start with at least 12 of them. It isn't easy to tell the males from the females either so that's another thing that makes them harder to keep. A lot of people have had trouble with them & give up trying to keep them. DJRansome, a moderator here, is having success with them so I hope he comes on and tells you more but that's my take on the species :wink: .


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

This article on Demasoni is probably a good place to start :thumb: 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/p_demasoni.php


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Dewdrop said:


> Because they are so aggressive to each other, it's recommended that you start with at least 12 of them.


And usually you want to start with more than that because some die off...  
They're gorgeous looking, but man, the stories I've heard :roll: :lol:


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## schwartzfamily6 (Oct 1, 2010)

I read the article doesnt sound like anything I cant handle. Actually the article makes it sound like they are pretty easy.

What stories have you heard? good or bad?


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

The real problem with them in their conspecific aggression.
Usually, you get them as juvies and you can't sex them. But in a large group--of say 20, to start, you'd only want 2-3 males with the rest being female.

As they grow, you have to weed out extra males, and replace with females.
You just have to watch them.

And, the worst stories I've heard, are gory. Mbuna have tiny teeth and they use them. Large patches missing, lost fins, maybe even some bites deep enough to bleed. But that's not specifically demasoni, but Mbuna in general.

So, try it. Like I said, they're beautiful fish. But they're others just as bad--auratus, kenyi, zebras, for example.


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## schwartzfamily6 (Oct 1, 2010)

The nice thing about this tank is it's located in our living room so it will gets lots and lots or attention. If it's just a matter of weeding out the bad boys and keeping the peace that all part of keeping fish anyways. We have already had many battles over the years, by battles i mean between fish, with our tropical tanks. Just 2 weeks ago i had to practically tear apart our entire 90G tank to remove a bully 3" pictus that was getting into fights with our 5" redtail shark. It seemed like once the lights went out those two would go at it all the time. They would be locked up and rolling around in a big ball.


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## benny71 (Sep 30, 2010)

Dewdrop said:


> I've never kept demasoni but have been coming to this forum long enough to have learned a bit about them :lol:
> 
> I would say the difficulty level is so high because of their conspecific aggression (aggression toward their own kind/species). Because they are so aggressive to each other, it's recommended that you start with at least 12 of them. It isn't easy to tell the males from the females either so that's another thing that makes them harder to keep. A lot of people have had trouble with them & give up trying to keep them. DJRansome, a moderator here, is having success with them so I hope he comes on and tells you more but that's my take on the species :wink: .


I'd say you hit the nail on the head.

DJR will recommend that you start with at least 20 of them to curb their aggression.


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## nauTik (Mar 18, 2009)

schwartzfamily6 said:


> I'm currently considering stocking Demasoni and i'm curious as to what characteristics make it a difficulty level 4?


they're not as difficult as one may think after hearing all the horror stories, just be sure to do your research as you would anything else before buying. I started with a group of 21 demasoni and haven't had any deaths. I did have to remove one male after a year but other than that no problems. Maybe I just got lucky with female ratios though.

Just buy them young and start with at least 20. People say the limit is 12, I'd never go below 15.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

the severe aggression towards each other will stress some out and make them very succeptable to bloat, bloat can easily whipe out your dems if not caught and treated.

the best way to avoid this like others have stated is to start with a very large number, which usually depends on your tank size, the larger the tank the more dems you want, it's best to croud them. Then you want to keep a very close eye on them. Watch out for any overly aggressive fish, one that chases fish constantly and doesn't let up, if you see one, it's best to remove it. sometimes you'll have to do this several times before you get to a nice stable point, this is why you need to start with a very high number, so that you don't end up dipping below 12-15 total

if you ever notice any fish hiding in rocks all the time, hiding in the corners or behind equipment, or not eating, you need to find the agressive fish and remove them, further more, if any fish are not eating, then there is a strong chance you have bloat and you need to treat for it


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## Marylandwahoo (Mar 18, 2007)

I do not think they are especially difficult as long as you expect to have a good bit of attrition and are prepared to pull a holding mom out every 6-8 months and raise fry as replacements until you get the m-f ratio to a stable state.


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## schwartzfamily6 (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm putting them in a 90G so I was gonna start with 20 Dems and 10Labs. I have another thread I started before this one.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=


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## kabuto (Mar 9, 2007)

you should do fine.
Yes there are horror stories, but for most enthusiast who are willing to spend time with their tank, it should work out.

So far in my observation of my tank, you need to watch a few things:
1) Remove excessive males down to 3~4 for a 90G should be good. (i have 3 in my 55g)
2) Have lots of med/small rocks with lots of tight spaces since the females are smaller and can easily hide from the larger males.
3) When things go wrong, do water change, rearrange rocks, add rocks, add more rocks,... and then add more rocks until problem goes away.

I find my demasoni to be more aggressive around 4~6 month age. Now they are about 9mth old, and less aggressive than before. But maybe its cos i have reduced from about 7~8 to 3 males.


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## schwartzfamily6 (Oct 1, 2010)

Thanks for all the great information everyone. It's really helped settle my mind about getting the Demasoni since this will be my first experience with cichlids I wasnt too sure.


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