# red devil experts



## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Can anyone help me out with your opinion? I want to purchase a red devil soon. I looked into tangled into cichlids and got a quote of about 55-60 bucks to have a captive bred red devil shipped overnight. (Not bad at all I don't think). The thing is, yesterday I went to one of my lfs (not a typical lfs) and they had a smallish devil maybe 4 or 4.5 inches. They want 12.99 for him. My question for you guys is, can you look at the pics that I will post and let me know what you think of him/her? It look like a legit red devil? At least compared to most you find at lfs. Too early to tell male or female? I'd really like a male. Please let me know what you think.


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## Sinister-Kisses (Jul 19, 2013)

Well it won't be pure devil. 99.9% of the fish out there at this point are actually red devil/midas cichlid hybrids, and how they look as they mature will really depend on their genetics. Could look more like a devil, could look more like a midas. Impossible to tell sex from that photo, would need a vent shot. But it looks like a healthy, personable fish. So, depends on what you want - if you want a definite PURE labiatus or citrinellum, whichever your preference is, you'd have to place the order from Jeff Rapps. If you don't care, save yourself the money and buy this little guy.


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Thank you for your quick answer. Yeah I figured it would be some sort of a mix as in my research I have heard about the midas/devil hybrids. I don't too much mind a hybrid as they are such similar fish anyway, that the hybrids don't look that dissimilar to what a pure one would look like. Imo anyway, and I'm no expert. 
As I said I really would prefer a male, so what I might do is take a trip back there and ask if they can sex it. If they can and it's male, I'll probably pick that guy up. If they can't then maybe I'll spend the extra cash and purchase from Jeff Rapps.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

What did you end up doing?


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

I wound up just getting the one at my local lfs. I'm not too worried about getting a 100% pure/wild caught so I couldn't really justify the extra 40 bucks or so it would have cost. So far I'm pretty happy with him, I say him because that's what I was told he is...He's pretty small at about 3-3.5 inches, so I think the guy may have just made Ann educated guess. But time will tell. So far he's a little skittish, I think having him in a not so heavily trafficked area doesn't help...but he has settled in nicely. Here are a few pics.


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

What do you guys think of my devil?


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## plumdogg (Jan 21, 2015)

I Think the fish looks cool... I am always curious as if how do you know the lfs does not have pure bred's? How do you know? What do you look for? Why is it only red devil that are never pure and always seem to be crossed up with a midas? Just curious..


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Oh I don't know for sure...I'm not an expert in fishkeeping, and this is my first red devil. Now, I know what I'm doing with my aquarium...but I still come across problems now and then. As far as my red devil in particular, who knows, I guess he could be...I just know that I done allot of research and found that it's tough to find pure devils in general, let alone at an lfs. Somebody correct me if I wrong but I don't think it's impossible, just improbable. As I said in a previous post, I wasn't too concerned about having a devil/midas hybrid as I like midas as well...So to spend the extra 50 bucks wasn't worth it for me.


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## plumdogg (Jan 21, 2015)

From my understanding pointed fat lips is one good indication of a pure bred, I think my lfs has pure breds I paid $35 for mine. The folks there claim they do not breed hybrids do to their customer integrity. Funny though I bought my Flowerhorn from them???

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile114.html


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

plumdogg said:


> From my understanding pointed fat lips is one good indication of a pure bred
> 
> Yeah it seems mine doesn't have the fat lips, although they are more pointed than they are rounded. So I'm sure I have a devil/midas hybrid. But that's ok with me...I still think it's a good looking fish. Time will tell what he looks like when he's mature


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## plumdogg (Jan 21, 2015)

I agree he is a pretty fish


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

plumdogg said:


> I am always curious as if how do you know the lfs does not have pure bred's? How do you know? What do you look for? Why is it only red devil that are never pure and always seem to be crossed up with a midas? Just curious..


The only way you can know is if the fish can be traced back to wild caught parents. Red devils come from lake Nicaragua and lake Managua; midas cichlid , as well. Essentially, a red devil is a particular feeding morph of the midas cichlid. It is classified as a separate species because it supposedly does not interbreed with the midas cichlid in the wild; or at least not to any significant extent.
As wild caught fish, they are distinguished by the large fleshy lips that the red devil develops. The lips develop by rubbing on rocks as they suck up rotting plant matter, detritus and what ever crustaceans or organisms hide between rocks. In captivity, they do not develop these huge fleshy lips with out feeding in this manner, so cannot be distinguished by this trait after the 1st generation born in captivity. While there are characteristics that tend to be more prevalent between the two types, all the traits overlap. Does not matter how "expert" you are, the two types cannot be reliably distinguished once bred in captivity. Especially at a young size, the 2 types are virtually identical!
They where 1st imported around 1965. Since they come from the same lake, they were confused with each other and cross bred, right from the very start. Domestic strains are in almost all instances, a cross of the 2. Some will end up with more red devil traits; some will end up with midas traits; others will show traits of both.......that is the variability of a hybrid that does not breed true. Again, I have to state again, that the distinction between the 2 types, other then the huge fleshy lips of the red devil which does not develop in captivity, are tendencies, not iron clad distinctions. All the traits overlap! 
Here are a couple threads if you interested in further reading:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...f-citrinellus-A-potential-case-of-F1-Midevils
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...efore-asking-if-you-have-a-Midas-or-Red-Devil


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Wow very informative and interesting, thank you! I always enjoy learning more about my fish!


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi dwl0222,

I think your cichlid looks epic. At this size he has a lot of traits/color I would personally prefer/look for when buying a RD/Midas. Well done; I am a little jealous. Post some pictures as he matures please.

Thanks,
Matt


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

Thanks mlancaster, I appreciate the kind words. Yes I thought he was good looking when I saw him too, that's why I jumped on it for 12 bucks when I had the chance. Funny you ask for more pictures cause literally in the last two days he has become much more aggressive and has started to shows signs of a nuchal hump...


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## Neophyte (Feb 13, 2015)

Hello Fellow Red Devil Fans

What do the experts do when your favourite Red Devil becomes so large and aggressive that it is lethal to the other fish in the aquarium?

My options are narrowing:
1 - remove the Red Devil
2 - remove all but the lightning quick electric yellow
3 - modify the aqua-scape so the the other fish have better caves and hides

My 6 yr-old Red Devil is eating my tank. The Jack Dempsey piqued Red's homicidal streak. Isolated JD to let its wounds heal. Built a cave for this beautiful 8-inch JD. JD comes out no more than twice a day and gets chased around for its troubles. The Green Severums get regular nasty nips too. The Convict is holding its own with only occasional abrasions.

Building safe hides for the JD, Green Severums and Convict is proving to be a daunting challenge. I am having limited success with a combination of driftwood and stones.

What say you?


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## dwl0222 (Mar 6, 2011)

I say decide what fish you want most, in your case either the red devil or the others....I don't think aquascaping is going to do much because even if the devil can't get to the other fish, doesn't mean the others are going to be happy/healthy. Also, don't you want to see your fish swim around etc? Having them hide 24/7 wouldn't be much fun to me. So again, id decide if you want the solo fish (devil), or the aggressive community (convict, Dempsey, severums). Of course it's possible that removing the devil just allows another to take its place as head honcho...but it wouldn't be as bad as the devil. Just my 2 cents...good luck


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Think it's time to remove all the other fish or the devil itself. What size tank/dimensions?


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## Neophyte (Feb 13, 2015)

The tank is 6 feet wide by 19-inches by 24-inches or so. 125 gallon tank.

I was so hoping aqua-scaping would work. Sigh.

So, who wants to buy a gorgeous Red Devil?


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## Neophyte (Feb 13, 2015)

Thanks dwl0222 and Iggy Newcastle. You really have helped.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

A new scape could certainly work for a short time, but is essentially delaying the inevitable. Good luck


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

I'd recommend getting a 75G and put the devil in it solo and enjoy as a wet pet. I've got a midas, and rd/midas (likely) cross. Each have their own tanks, and I enjoy them very much. I personally love a fish with attitude, but you have to respect them for what they are - fish that won't share their space with others. Both of mine will attack the python during WC's, and will fight with their reflections. :lol:


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