# Strange Eating Habits



## Granman (Oct 24, 2013)

I have a 75 gal with 2 Firemouths, 2 Severums, a Convict, and a Featherfin Catfish. Prior to this mix I had a 10 inch Tiger Oscar with the 2 Firemouths, 1 Severum, and the catfish, but the Oscar died for some mysterious reason, which I still don't understand. Since the passing of the Oscar, the Firemouths have been extremely timid and skittish, to the point of not eating when I feed them. I thought maybe the reason for this was a lack of competition for food so I added the convict and another Severum. Now they are all behaving that way, except the convict and the catfish. The male Firemouth will only eat food if the female comes to the front and grabs it, brings it to the back of the tank and spits it out, which is another issue. They all seem to take the food in and spit it right back out. Sometimes repeating this behavior two or three times until ultimately the food ends up on the gravel for the catfish to clean up. This has been going on for two or three weeks now and I'm starting to get a little worried that whatever the Oscar died from is still in the tank. Any suggestions would be welcome.
I tested the water several times during the three weeks and the only wrong is that my PH is 7.6, which I'm not sure if that's even an issue after extensive research on the internet. I have tried using peat to bring it down, but got no response. I would prefer to stay away from chemicals all together.


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi Granman,

First off, what are you feeding them? Floating? Sinking? In my experience fire mouths do not always like to go to the top of the tank to eat floating food.

On the other hand, it does sound like your fish have a sickness. Based on my recollection, mouthing food and spitting it out can indicate an internal parasite.

I can not verify the information on this website or vouch their intentions, but this is a website I have used in the past to help diagnose sick fish:

http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/diseases.html

I would also recommend posting your issue in the "Illness, Health & Nutrition" forum of this website and see if you get any helpful advice.

Keep us posted. Do frequent water changes. And post your test readings for Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates.

Thanks,
Matt


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## Granman (Oct 24, 2013)

Thanks Matt. I suspect something isn't right. I will look into it further. I do 25% weekly water changes and check the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels quite frequently, more so since this started happening.


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## Granman (Oct 24, 2013)

Sorry I did not answer your initial question. I've been feeding them sinking pellets for some time now. I've had the Firemouths for about six or seven months and they have never behaved this way during feeding time. The male sometimes would get distracted chasing the female during feeding only to return and feed on two or three pellets. The female would go to the top for the floaters that I fed the Oscar, but I believe that was to get away from the male, he is always antagonizing her especially during feeding time.

Thanks again for your reply


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## rgr4475 (Mar 19, 2008)

You said you tested the water. What were your results? Specifically ammonia and nitrite. Were they all zeros? What type of filtration is in the tank? Are you getting proper oxygenation by either the filer or a power head breaking up the surface of the water?

Also a 10" oscar, 2 firemouths, severum and a cat fish is way too many fish in a 75g. The oscar should have been in there alone and even then probably in a bigger tank. I am guessing with that situation the filter couldn't handle the bio load and possibly effected the water quality. If that wasn't it, sometimes fish do get sick and die.


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## Granman (Oct 24, 2013)

Ammonia and nitrite levels are 0 and nitrate runs at about 60ppm. I have a 60 gal HOT filter and two Powerhead 402's connected to an under gravel filtration system. As far as I know the filtration is sufficient as I test the water often and the results are consistent. As far as sufficient oxygen, idk for sure, but I figure 2 powerhead 402's, which can handle 100 gal, plus the HOT would be enough. Also I no longer have the Oscar, but I have 2 Firemouths(~2.5" each), 2 Severums(~2.5" each), a Convict(~1"), and a Featherfin(~4").


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## FedEXguy (Feb 24, 2005)

Have you checked the temperature? Too much either way and your fish could act weird and your oxygen levels could be affected. I know it is an obvious question, but those are the ones we sometimes miss


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Granman said:


> nitrate runs at about 60ppm.


An indication that water quality is not that good. Should do some large water changes to bring it down below 20 ppm or lower yet, and keep it there with a water change schedule sufficient to keep it below this level. Some might suggest a few 50% water changes over the course of a few days to get it down, though myself I would do a 75-90% and get it down right away.



Granman said:


> They all seem to take the food in and spit it right back out. Sometimes repeating this behavior two or three times until ultimately the food ends up on the gravel for the catfish to clean up.


No way the catfish is getting it all as lot's will go into the crevices of the gravel. Rotting food is not healthy for a tank! If fish lack enthusiasm for food, they should not be fed the next day.....maybe even 2-4 days or more until they regain their enthusiasm. Bear in mind fish can go 2 weeks no problem, with out eating; it will not harm them.



Granman said:


> my PH is 7.6, which I'm not sure if that's even an issue after extensive research on the internet. I have tried using peat to bring it down


Shouldn't concern yourself with pH. Your tap water is just fine and you shouldn't be trying to alter it with peat, which really has no business being in a tank with CA cichlids. Your CA cichlids (FM and con) come from waters with a pH7.5 -9.5, moderately hard to extremely hard...but generally do fine in just about any local water. Aquarium strain severum also does fine in just about any local tap water. As long as you declorinate the tap water while adding it to the tank.

If after water changes and cutting back on feeding for a few days, your fish are still skittish, then consider adding some dither fish like giant danios to make your fish feel more comfortable.


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## rgr4475 (Mar 19, 2008)

Granman said:


> Ammonia and nitrite levels are 0 and nitrate runs at about 60ppm. I have a 60 gal HOT filter and two Powerhead 402's connected to an under gravel filtration system. As far as I know the filtration is sufficient as I test the water often and the results are consistent. As far as sufficient oxygen, idk for sure, but I figure 2 powerhead 402's, which can handle 100 gal, plus the HOT would be enough. Also I no longer have the Oscar, but I have 2 Firemouths(~2.5" each), 2 Severums(~2.5" each), a Convict(~1"), and a Featherfin(~4").


As already mentioned 60ppm of nitrate is too high. You should shoot for 5-10 ppm after water changes. Hard to say if that alone is causing the behavior you are getting but don't be afraid to up your water changes. Even over 50% will not hurt anything.


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## Granman (Oct 24, 2013)

I have the nitrate level below 10 ppm and started treatment for parasites. Golden Severum was holding one fin against its body, making jerking movements, and bouncing off of objects in the tank. Actually both Severums were doing this. The female Firemouth is only showing the one symptom, maybe two, but I had to do something. Thanks to everyone for all of there help. I have learned a lot of hard lessons these past couple of weeks. At the end of the treatment I have to do a 100% water change over a 6 hour period so it'll be like starting over, this time with a little more knowledge.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Granman said:


> started treatment for parasites.


What product and treatment for what parasite? Not sure it's a good idea to treat for parasites unless you have determined what disease the fish have :-?



Granman said:


> Golden Severum was holding one fin against its body, making jerking movements, and bouncing off of objects in the tank.


 Sounds to me more like the "heeby- jeebies". All it takes is one fish to feel uncomfortable, for all kinds of reasons, and that fear is contagious and can spread to other fish. Of course if they stay scared long enough, good chance they will get sick, eventually. Shortly after water changes, they maybe worse, not better. I think you need to give it a little time, cut back on feeding.....and if it get's no better with in a week or so with better water quality, then consider adding some dither fish like giant danios. The fact that the convict is less skittish, seems to fit, as quite often they are less affected by excessive fear in the tank.


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## rgr4475 (Mar 19, 2008)

BC in SK said:


> Granman said:
> 
> 
> > started treatment for parasites.
> ...


I would have to agree. I wouldn't be adding medications until you isolated what the exact problem is. It may not even be disease related. There is simply not enough information to make a determination.


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## Granman (Oct 24, 2013)

The Red Severum just died. He behaved the same as my Oscar right before he died. They float listlessly around the tank allowing the current to bang them into rocks and logs and the gravel for about 4 or 5 hours and then die. IDK this sucks. No one can tell me what to do, just what not to do. If I should stop the treatment please let me know. I am doing a treatment suggested to me on the Illness, Health, and Nutrition board. I posted it under the title "Possible Parasite" and told it may possibly be bloat. I'm doing it with Tetra. I thought maybe they had gill flukes.
Here are the directions:
Tetra Parasite Guard 
Be sure to maintain temperature and water salinity when performing all water changes. If treating with Tetra Parasite Guard, perform a 30-40% water change, vacuum, remove any chemical filtration and add 2 tablespoons of Epsom salt for every ten gallons of water, pre-mixed and added gradually over a period of 5-6 hours. Add one tablet of JPC per 10 gallons and wait 48 hours. Perform a 25% water change and add 1 tablet per 10 gallons and again, wait 48 hours. Perform another 25% water change and add 1 tablet per 10 gallons. Perform a final 50% water change 48 hours after the last dosage. Repeat treatment following 72 hours if there is little to no improvement in the fish. Once you have concluded the treatment, gradually return the tank to normal salinity over a period of 5-6 hours via small partial water changes until approximately 100% of water has been changed and resume normal filtration.

And here is the link 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m ... t2_pt4.php


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi Granman,

I am sorry another fish died. I wish I could help. Best of luck.

Thanks,
Matt


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