# Brichardi Pair Going Crazy



## Cerberus (Dec 15, 2004)

I had four juvenile brichardi mixed in with a frontosa that was a little larger in my 90 gallon. Yesterday, I purchased an adult pair of brichardi and the two are now tag-teaming all my other smaller brichardi as well as my frontosa.

Is this the norm? There are no fry in the tank yet or eggs from what I can tell either. I modeled this setup after the brichardi tank at the Baltimore Aquarium, where they have a huge colony of brichardi and one very large frontosa who I presume keeps the populations in check. Unfortunately, my frontosa is too small to accomplish this at this time.

Here is my question. If the adult brichardi spawn, will they eventually allow the pre-existing juveniles to join in their extended family and help out or will they continue to battle the original smaller brichardi?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Cerberus said:


> If the adult brichardi spawn, will they eventually allow the pre-existing juveniles to join in their extended family and help out or will they continue to battle the original smaller brichardi?


The norm is one pair will kill off all other fish in the tank (not just brichardi) and then populate it with their own fry, which they will tolerate.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Duplicate moved from another forum, please reply to the other post until a Tang Mod can delete this one.


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## Cerberus (Dec 15, 2004)

Could you please delete the other one that is in the decorations set up instead?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

See http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=239151


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Cerberus said:


> Could you please delete the other one that is in the decorations set up instead?


No I can't because I moved it here.

See http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=239151


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## Cerberus (Dec 15, 2004)

Ok, thanks. I appreciate it.


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## Cerberus (Dec 15, 2004)

It's happened. Juvenile frontosa now has a split caudal fin. My original daffodil juvenile has been forced into the corner of the tank, and the Bonnie and Clyde have taken complete control of the 90 gallon!

I'm thinking these two must be moved tomorrow unfortunately.

Here is another question. The other younger brichardi / pulcher all got along before introducing this mated pair. Will this continue once the two misfits are removed or am I looking at trouble once the younger once eventually pair up?

What I initially wanted was a harem of brichardi / pulcher and one BIG Frontosa to cull the herd - as I saw at the Baltimore Aquarium's setup. Is this even possible or was it wishful thinking?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

In a 90g? Yep it is very wishful thinking. Breeding N.pulcher/brichardi can easily kill young fronts and older big fronts can take adult pulcher/brichardi.

In 90g of space it would take a miracle to balance breeding with consumption.

Not sure on the other. Related ones can form groups but unrelated ones are usualy killed off and the new young from the dom pair plus the 2 adults then forms a breeding swarm. According to the ref the dom pair are the only ones to breed big time in the swarm the others helping bring up related young (maybe sneeking a bit of firtilization) but mainly trying to be number one to replace one of the adults if one dies.

Maybe try a Synodontis catfish for population control. Even then its hard. The more the pucher/brichardi breed the better the young are protected and the less the predator takes. And vic versa the less they breed the less protection and the more the predation. You are far more able to remove unwanted fish in the right numbers than a fish predator.

All the best James


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## Cerberus (Dec 15, 2004)

Would compressiceps work with the brichardi? I recall them having a defensive adaptation of using their scales to stave off bites. I did move the two aggressors to a smaller tank and things did settle down.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

The young brichardi will eventually become just as aggressive at the ones you just moved. The comps will not be tolerated regardless of any defense they may have.

A 48" tank is too small to house a second species with brichardi IME. At least not easily. You could try what I did and use a temporary clear divider. Let the comps get established and grow out on one side while the brichardi do the same on the other before removing the divider. But, I did this in 6 feet of tank. If you go with two rock dwellers know that the brichardi are likely to be interested in expanding at some point to the other rock pile and you could have serious battles ensue. I wouldn't try it in a 4' tank. Low odds for long term success.

In 6' you could also rock up half and leave the other half open sand and try a robust shellie like a lepidiolamprologus hecqui. Do this while the brichardi are young and let the lepidio's get established first.

If just looking for a large fish that hangs out on the other side away from the brichardi, you could try lepidiolamprologus lemarii. He'd keep the brichardi numbers in check. Maybe too well.  You'd have to rock it up so the lemarii couldn't access the depths of the rock pile. I'm not sure if they could take him out. They may just harass him or any other large fish to death, or get eaten trying.


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## Cerberus (Dec 15, 2004)

Well, I moved Bonnie and Clyde to a 30 gallon hex and left the others in the 90. Shame of it is, I checked out the 90 gallon today to find that my nice looking sub-adult pulcher now is missing most of his caudal fin! Guess he developed fin-rot after being nipped at. I put some Melafix in there but it may be too late. The tale is almost entirely gone. Also noticed that one of my smaller brichardi is gone - has been for several days now. I had taken a break from fish for several years and forgotten how much drama there is with cichlids.

At this point, I may just invest in some blue flash cyps, a few shell dwellers, and call it a day :x


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> At this point, I may just invest in some blue flash cyps, a few shell dwellers, and call it a day


Add a rock dweller (just not a brichardi type  ) and you'll have a really nice setup. Try the brichardi again some time when you can dedicate a tank to them.


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## Cerberus (Dec 15, 2004)

Is there a rock dweller that you recommend?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Cerberus said:


> Is there a rock dweller that you recommend?


I have kept breeding J. regani kipili in with breeding brichardi in a tank of similar volume.

Expect lots of fireworks, prob need a adult pair pref bigger than the brichardi and a tank divider to get the Julies breeding before removal of the tank divider.

My kipili were already breeding before the introduction of the brichardi/pulcher.

All the best James


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Cerberus said:


> Is there a rock dweller that you recommend?


Altolamprologus, julidichromis, neolamprologus (but not all), you've really got a lot of choices. Some of it depends on the temperament and size of the 'shellie' that you pick. Also depends on what's typically available to you. I'm really enjoying my n. longicaudatus, but not commonly available and is inhibiting my l. hecqui a bit, n. mustax maybe, really pretty fish. If you went small like j. ornatus or j. transcriptus, no reason you couldn't also add an alto. You'll just need to pare down to two breeding pairs/groups at some point. Check the African Cichlid Gallery, just stick with tanganyikan.


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## Cerberus (Dec 15, 2004)

I purchased 7 adult Poso Rabbit snails and was wondering if it would be safe to add them to the hex tank that holds the two breeding brichardi (Bonnie and Clyde). Does anyone know if Brichardi will attack snails? I hope not...


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## whiskeyriver (Nov 29, 2011)

Cerberus said:


> I purchased 7 adult Poso Rabbit snails and was wondering if it would be safe to add them to the hex tank that holds the two breeding brichardi (Bonnie and Clyde). Does anyone know if Brichardi will attack snails? I hope not...


In a word...YES.


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