# bottom feeders/scavengers



## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

what kinda fish is there out there at most local fish shops that are like bottom feeders or groud scavengers.... something that gonna go through my gravel and stir up any little dirt thats laying in it (fish poop, left over food etc etc)

also pics of them would be nice too.... like are there el's or something or what is all out there that you guys know about

thanks rob


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There are no fish of which I am aware that eat fish poop or dirt. Gravel vacuums are good for that. Many bottom dwellers will clean up extra food but better if you don't overfeed.

What are the dimensions of your tank and what is it stocked with? Some bottom dwellers might be more suited to hard/versus soft water or aggressive/versus peaceful fish.


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

tank is 48" long by 18" wide by 19" tall (70gallons) right now there are just mollies in the tank as we had a issue with a disiease so i completly cleaned tank top to bottom and filter and everything .....

but i mean just something that gonna possibly rumage through the gravel and stir any dirt up that laying in there to get filter and sucked up through the filter ...eventually we want some bala sharks, and clown loachs or whichever there called and some bright colourful fish in there dont care for mollies really hahahaha they just keep breeding CONSTANLY


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

but as for fish stirring up the bottom, most africans cichlids will do that.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Well you may not want african cichlids with mollies, as I believe mollies are brackish fish.

Sounds as though gravel vacuuming is the way to do what you want.

I think you need to decide what you will stock the tank with first so that you can decide what bottom dweller to choose. Unless you are saying this tank will focus on bottom dwellers?

Clown loaches grow to 13" and like to be in groups of 6 or more so they are usually better for a 72" tank.

Bala sharks too grow 10" to 14" and like to be in groups of 6 or more. Not suitable for a 48" tank.


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

Maybe clown loaches isn't what I'm thinking of then.... These are freshwater fish that look like a clown fish but aren't salt water....

We had some hap44's and they did not do good at all, so we wanna try something else...and we don't care if the mollies get ate either, as they they just constantly breed

We have a gravel vaccumm but it doesn't pull much dirt out as I'd like,


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

Brackish fish what ya mean by that ??


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## Adrian101 (Jan 24, 2011)

Clown loaches are fresh water. And both they and bala sharks get to big for your tank. Why didn't the haps do well? Is it a new tank? And brackish water is fresh water with a salt content. Estuaries are common for this. Mollies need this water normally. No fish will clean your gravel better than a gravel vac, i have large earth eaters and still gravel vac with my water changes. You should pick what sort of fish of u want and then research them .


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

Well when gf mom had the tank out at her house she had this long eel like thing that buried and sawm through the gravel but he got stuck in a castle and died before she noticed he was stuck and when she broke the castle to get him out he was dead.....

The happs ended up dieing due to ich or something along that line... Weird like fungis that grew on them, pretty sure they were sick from petstore we got em from, and he wouldn't help us or replace em after having for a few days, and I tried treating but it was too late, so I did a HUGE water change, and cleaned the filter and stones and such... So now were in nice clean water and properly balanced water....


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## SEAN420 (Nov 24, 2011)

Want my opinion.. Get some Jujupari's I don't know the science name of em. But they are called the EarthEater i believe? i might be wrong there.. once they get big enough to pick up the gravel they usually find their food like that in the wild i believe. But as for eating the Waste.. Good luck. I went into LFS's asking that same question. And *** learned this. You want a nice tank clean and disease free! Do water changes, Vacuum your gravel. And dont be lazy about it. I let my 2nd tank setup go n i regret it. Best of luck. Get some Cory Catfish, they like to rummage the bottom


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## SEAN420 (Nov 24, 2011)

i guess another question would be.. How long has this tank been set up"? and how much waste is really down there seems to be the problem. I let the waste go in my 2nd setup, thats why im suprised my fish were even alive.. \ Easy things to fix really. Maybe get some Totes or buckets n store aerate your fish. Completely empty the tank  remove gravel... n clean  but.. youll have to let your tank cycle a bit after refilling.. So thats a long alternative. But if you got that much waste. Kinda the only option really.. Without making a HUGE mess in ur tank.


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

well not so much wanting something to eat fish poop and such, I'm just saying I want something to dig or like slither amongist the gravel to stirp up any dirt in order for the filter to suck it up and clean some dirt in there... Just alittle less maintence you know what I mean tho ?


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

Tank has been setup for bout a month now, and when I cleaned it up yesterday there was a ton of stuff laying within the gravel...could be just feed way too much food I dunno... We have 3 chinese algea eaters, one regular algea eater, as well as 2 small apple snails


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## SEAN420 (Nov 24, 2011)

What kinda fish do you have in the tank besides that? Any cichlids of any sorts? Prolly need to cut back on the feeding. But tanks still need maintenance reguardless.. id look into some Cory cats, and like i said, if you have no cichlids yet. Jujupari's pick up gravel n such to sift.. them with the corys.. u should be ok. but u need to gravel vac at least once a month. and keep up on your levels. Best of luck. :thumb:


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

Well besides what I listed in previous post there like 15 mollies in it that's it... We have a deisease issue so now I'm just looking around at different stuff to put in the tank...

But will cichilds be ok with bala sharks or red tail sharks ?


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## Adrian101 (Jan 24, 2011)

Balas get to big. Red tails are fine but can be aggressive. No eartheater will stir the gravel so much you don't have to vac. You will probably need to change to sand and get a fish that digs into it like a hairy puffer or monster fish. Can't think of much else that kicks up that much of the bottom.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Agree, the bala shark is a common example of a fish that should not be sold to aquarists because it get's too large for home tanks.

Whether a red tail shark will work with cichlids depends to some extent on which cichlids, but from posts I read there is about a 50-50 success rate with Malawi.

Cories are usually not successful in the high pH and aggression of a Malawi tank, but may work with other cichlids.


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

Will a bala be a dawrf in smallish tank like some get, or are they the type of fish that just grow regardless of tank size.....I like big fish


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## Adrian101 (Jan 24, 2011)

No fish i know of is a dwarf in a small tank. If they don't grow its cos they are stunted and therefore not healthy. Balas need huge tanks and need big groups.


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

ya that mighta been the word I was after "stunned" ..... It was dawrf or midget lol


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

DJRansome said:


> Agree, the bala shark is a common example of a fish that should not be sold to aquarists because it get's too large for home tanks.
> 
> Whether a red tail shark will work with cichlids depends to some extent on which cichlids, but from posts I read there is about a 50-50 success rate with Malawi.
> 
> Cories are usually not successful in the high pH and aggression of a Malawi tank, but may work with other cichlids.


I had a red tail shark in with my Mbuna for a few years with no issues.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

TrashmanNYC said:


> I had a red tail shark in with my Mbuna for a few years with no issues.


So you go on the "success" side of the 50%' :thumb:


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Rob1984 said:


> Will a bala be a dawrf in smallish tank like some get, or are they the type of fish that just grow regardless of tank size.....I like big fish


It is a common myth that fish only grow to the size of the tank. If the fish can't grow to their natural size because the tank is too small, they will die. It's as simple as that.

A stunted fish is a fish in too small of a tank, but it won't be stunted for long, because it will soon be a dead fish.

A great way to reduce the need for gravel vacuuming is building an Under Gravel Jet System. It is not to be confused with an Under Gravel Filter System, and its main purpose is to keep debris from settling into the substrate. That way any muck will move around until it ends up in the filter. Under Gravel Jet is actually a bit of a misleading name, since it doesn't work too well with gravel, but is excellent with sand.


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

rob im going to be blunt. every has been telling you your bala gets too big for your tank u want to keep the fish built a pond and add atleast 2 more. otherwise get rid of it. you simply cant have that fish in a tank unless its atleast 12ft by 4ft to house a school of them comfortably. they are shcooling fish and needs to be in groups of atleast 3 better if it was 5 best when its 12+


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I dont think he has one yet... 

Seriously though, have you tried sticking the end of the siphon into the gravel? Pretty sure that will remove anything trapped in the substrate...


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

jd lover said:


> want to keep the fish built a pond and add atleast 2 more. otherwise get rid of it. you simply cant have that fish in a tank unless its atleast 12ft by 4ft to house a school of them comfortably. they are shcooling fish and needs to be in groups of atleast 3 better if it was 5 best when its 12+


Just because a fish is sometimes found in schools does not mean the fish schools 24/7, 365 days a year. Nor does it mean that is the only way the fish can be successfully kept. Even a lot of cichlids will school----though in captivity nobody calls them a schooling fish.

I had a very large bala shark for about 5 years. he was given to me by my brother, who had him for that long as well, or possibly longer. I lost him when i move ( it is difficult to move large fish). He was very healtthy and did very well IMO, as a lone specimen in a mixed, but primarily CA cichlid tank of 180 gal.

All the sources I can find on this fish say they get 12". Besides my own bala, I have never seen one larger then 12". When mine died after transport I measured him at 16", so i know they CAN get larger then 12". Though mine was probably older then any others i have seen-----makes me question why they would have to be kept in groups if mine did well as a lone specimen,got large and lived a long life. Nor do I think this fish requires a 12' X 4' pond just to house it, as 180 gal. IMO, would be suffient for life. IMO, a little excessive, stating a bala shark HAS to be housed in such a huge pond!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

bernie comeau said:


> 180 gal. IMO, would be suffient for life


But not something you would recommend for a 48" tank.


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

no i havent bought anything yet as im waiting for my tank to get everything all leved up and make sure everything is doing well before readding anything once again....

also yes i know that bala sharks like to be with a few friends all though i know a few people that have housed one on his own....as i was told 2 of em might fight one another but three together will be ok, 4 they might possibly fight as well, depends on male or females in there... but ideally 3 would be a nice number...

and no i havent stuck the syhpon in the gravel yet as there will not be ANY dirt or really anything under the gravel as i just completlty cleaned everything there the other day hence the wait to be adding any fish of any sort until i get everything leveled and established


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

bernie comeau said:


> jd lover said:
> 
> 
> > want to keep the fish built a pond and add atleast 2 more. otherwise get rid of it. you simply cant have that fish in a tank unless its atleast 12ft by 4ft to house a school of them comfortably. they are shcooling fish and needs to be in groups of atleast 3 better if it was 5 best when its 12+
> ...


and yes thats exactly what i have read around everywhere as well that they wont grow much larger then 12" unless they have a huge area that ther ehoused in...biggest *** heard from a local guy that had one was 8-10"......


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## Rob1984 (Jan 4, 2012)

seems that bala shark are more likely able to catch ich and other disease's which sucks.... i really like how they get bigger tho..... mind you if the red tail sharks got that size 10-12" id want them, and *** had red tails with my dad when i was younger and they were in a huge tank like 70-90gallons and didnt get really all that big liked id hope

black reef shark would be awesome but they get like 5 ft long lol defintly waaay to big for a 70 gallon tank hahaha, id like some tiger oscars but you can really have anything in the tank witht hose as they eat everything hahaha

does anyone know if red tails sharks will get any bigger then 6" i think maybe my dads was a freak of nature to get between 8 and 9" .... and seems when the bala's get bigger they get like fat looking not long and slender...


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Rob1984 said:


> seems that bala shark are more likely able to catch ich and other disease's


Fish that are stressed are more likely to catch diseases like itch. Being in too small of a tank will stress a fish. I reckon there might be a connection...


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

DJRansome said:


> bernie comeau said:
> 
> 
> > 180 gal. IMO, would be suffient for life
> ...


Agreed.
They are a very active fish that pretty much always stays swimming. And they do get BIG. I measured mine when he died at 16". Actual measurement; not a guesstimate. It's girth at the middle of it's body was like around a 6-8" in diameter circle (guesstimate). It's proportions at this size are actually quite different then any pictures of the fish I have ever seen. But i don't think mine ever seen a 4 ft. tank, except when it was a young juvie. 6 ft. tank is probably a minimum for this species.

I really do take exception to the idea that they can only be housed in groups----of course a larger group, a 6' x 2' x 2' (180 gal.) may not be large enough (?).


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