# Sunken belly



## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

Ever since I got my juvie yellow labs they've had sunken bellies (about 3 months ago). My lithobates appear to have slightly sunken bellies as well. They all eat, and nothing unusual about their behavior. The white stringy feces isn't as prevalent as it used to be. They seem to have a mixture of stringy and normal looking feces.

I first tried treating with Tetra parasite guard...no change. I then treated the tank with Metro; followed an aggressive treatment from these forums. I saw no change with their stomachs and still saw abnormal poop. About two weeks ago I finished doing a 7 day treatment of their NLS pellets soaked in Metro. This is the point where their poop started looking a bit less stringy, but not normal. I don't know what to try next, any thoughts?

Parameters are all within desired range. Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 20.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Since it has been 7 days since you stopped the metro treatment, I would try fattening them up for a month or so and then see. Keep a medicinal level of epsom salts in the aquarium if you don't already have that.


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> Since it has been 7 days since you stopped the metro treatment, I would try fattening them up for a month or so and then see. Keep a medicinal level of epsom salts in the aquarium if you don't already have that.


Sorry if I wasn't clear, it's been a little over two weeks since I finished treating with metro soaked food (which was for seven days). Do you mean to get some epsom salt to have around just in case, or to actually treat the tank with it now?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Unless and until your fish get rounded bellies, keeping epsom salt in the tank acts as a mild laxative. It can also be used to increase GH so it is fine even for healthy fish.

I'd still wait a couple weeks. You may not be able to notice yet if the fish are gaining a little weight.


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> Unless and until your fish get rounded bellies, keeping epsom salt in the tank acts as a mild laxative. It can also be used to increase GH so it is fine even for healthy fish.
> 
> I'd still wait a couple weeks. You may not be able to notice yet if the fish are gaining a little weight.


Thanks so much DJ :thumb:

I'll post an update on how it's going in a few weeks. Hopefully all is good soon, I really want to add deep water haps to my tank. Saw some in person and all I can say is pictures don't do them justice.


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> Unless and until your fish get rounded bellies, keeping epsom salt in the tank acts as a mild laxative. It can also be used to increase GH so it is fine even for healthy fish.
> 
> I'd still wait a couple weeks. You may not be able to notice yet if the fish are gaining a little weight.


One last question. While treating with epsom salt do I feed them?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes. Don't think of it as a particular treatment. Just something to keep in the tank as a standard aide to health.


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> Yes. Don't think of it as a particular treatment. Just something to keep in the tank as a standard aide to health.


Ahhhh ok, gotcha!


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

Fish are still active, and still eating, but I see no change in their sunken bellies. Maybe a bit more sunken if I'd have to guess. Any recommendations?


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

if a strong treatment of metro did not work then i would try praziquentol next. Metro would knock out hex which is one cause of sunken bellies. Another cause could be a tapeworm. Metro would not work on these guys. Prazi would take care of them. Prazi-pro is a pretty good product and easy to use. I would give that a shot, follow the recommended dose on the label.


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

dreday said:


> if a strong treatment of metro did not work then i would try praziquentol next. Metro would knock out hex which is one cause of sunken bellies. Another cause could be a tapeworm. Metro would not work on these guys. Prazi would take care of them. Prazi-pro is a pretty good product and easy to use. I would give that a shot, follow the recommended dose on the label.


Found prazipro, it's in a liquid form. Sound correct?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

toyster17 said:


> Found prazipro, it's in a liquid form. Sound correct?


:thumb:


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

When the following does not work...
-Epsom salt w/ Jungle Anti-Parasite fish food
-Epsom salt w/ Jungle Parasite Clear Tank Buddies
-Epsom salt w/ Metronidazole (or Clout)
...then I use Levamisol medicated fish food.
Basically I try and rule out parasites and then treat for worms.

HTH

M


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

Well my fish still have sunken bellies. Acting normal, eating, as always.

Should I try Maracyn and Maracyn 2? Any other suggestions?


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

Anyone know of some good parasite medications?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You tried the PraziPro and the Levamisol?


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> You tried the PraziPro and the Levamisol?


I have not tried Levamisol. I will give that a shot.


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

Didn't think it would be this hard to find...can't find it anywhere. Called some lfs as well.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

LFS don't really carry much in the way of medications IME. Try some of the online vendors.


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> LFS don't really carry much in the way of medications IME. Try some of the online vendors.


Do you know of any online vendors? The only one I know of doesn't carry it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

After a brief Google search, it appears it may be more readily available as a wormer for other animals. Maybe check with your vet?

Do you see any signs of Camallanus worms?


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## toyster17 (Mar 31, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> After a brief Google search, it appears it may be more readily available as a wormer for other animals. Maybe check with your vet?
> 
> Do you see any signs of Camallanus worms?


I'll have to check with a vet and see what they tell me.

no signs of Camallanus worms.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

Levamisol is not readily available to the hobby. It is very hard to find in the powder form. The other version that are used for other animals are very hard to does correctly in tanks. they strengths vary according to the type of animal it is designed for. Levamisol is also very soluble, which means it is easily absorbed by the fish. It can cause liver issues if overdosed so i would not recommend using other animal products.

I dont see anything about the prazipro, did it have any effect? How long did you treat? What was the dose you treated with the metro?

I dont remember what prazipro recommends to treat, but normal treatment would be 5-7 days I would think. I checked one of the articles in the library and i dont agree with the dosing, it is not enough. I would recommend 1 gram metro per 20g once a day for 7 days, preceded by a 20% water change. I would treat the main tank to treat all the fish.


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## inkmaker (Oct 24, 2012)

Well George, it sounds like the thing we Killifish people call 'wasting disease'. The fish usually pick up the food, rolls it around in their mouth and either spits it out or it comes through the gills. The fish have a gut that is so irritated the fish can't swallow. Usually Heximita or some protozoa in that Family cause the problem. The feces may be stringy, paper looking off and on. A smear of that tissue usually shows the Protozoa. A swab of the throat also finds the little swimmers.

I guess you could best say if they do spit their food out regularly?

Levamisole is a target medication for Nematodes. Flubendazole is a target drug for Protozoa. Both are adsorbed by the skin and gills, not to be fed to the fish. There are several drugs in the Pharma that are supposed to work to get rid of these Parasites but seldom do they find their way into the fish's metabolism and blood stream. They just aren't effective unless injected or forced down the gut. They have to be swallowed and in some rather large quantities. It just doesn't happen.

I have 10% Flubendazole powder packaged in 25, 50 and 100 grams @ $20, $35 and $65. Priority mail is about $7. I accept PayPal for payment. There is a small service fee. See the links below.

Have you ever fed this fish an earthworm? or chopped earth worm? Will it eat it? How about Black Worms - live?

Chares Harrison


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