# New Member,Very First Cichlids..help me ID plz!



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

So the wife and I lost one of our bettas last night. but it being my B-day and having an empty tank a trip to lfs was an easy sale. As soon as we arrivedi saw my next fish, 2 " dwarf african Cichlids" .. it said they would get 2-6 inches(they are barely 1 inch now) and the water conditions they,but that is all the lable said and the guy there knew less than the sticker did. i've been all over the web and cant find what exactly they are,nothing even close. i know these are juvies but that is the extent of what i've been able to learn.,ANY help would be greatly appreciated.

ok i cant post pics yet?


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

but i will


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

as soon as i post more posts


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

how big is the tank?


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

6gl,highly filtered for now but they are only an inch long and there are plenty of hiding/claiming spots,but i plan on them outgrowng that and will upgrade accordingly.


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

One more post. :thumb:


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i just want to go on record saying that is just not a good thing to do, should never buy a fish with intention of buying the propper tank in the future, should always start with the propper tank

that being said, as soon as you get to enough posts to post a picture, go to the unidentified sections and post the picture there


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

i know, but as with mose things in life i tend to jump in head first,but let me just say we have a 6gl fluval edge,cycled,with just the two cichlids, and sometime in the next few months plan to start a new larger tank(our first larger than 10gl) and we bought these guys based on that,knowing that they will have a place to go when needed,but i hear you. so i cant just post here too? cause i kinda want to.


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

you can, and see if someone id's it, but that is the forum used to id cichlids, as long as *Fogelhund* checks back after you post a pic then you might get a quick answer, you should be able to post a pic now btw


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

here they are..


----------



## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

yellow tail acei gets 6-8 inches and fast...docile
socolofi gets 5-7 inches slower growing...more aggressive


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i would agree with the id


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

steelers fan said:


> yellow tail acei gets 6-8 inches and fast...docile
> socolofi gets 5-7 inches slower growing...more aggressive


okay yellow tail acei ftw! but i'm not sold on the Pseudotropheus Socolofi

note that the yellow tail flushes his/her color and looks almost identical to the light one.even the yellow fins.


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

whats with the TWO-6 inch label at the store. i know they are rarely accurate but from what im seeing is a smaller size out of the question.i realy hope not.

also i looked at the unidentified section and have no clue where to post this so if someone wants to move it to the correct place it would be a ggreat help..sorry


----------



## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

yeah acei make 55 gallon tanks look small...they grow over 6 inches in 8 months. *** seen a group of 6 8 inch acei pace the length of a 6 foot tank for hours non stop

im sticking with the socolofi for the powder blue one with the black stripe...they get at least 5 inches but grow a little more slowly full size around 1.5-2 years.

a minimum 55 gallon tank with the proper numbers and m/f ratio is in order


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

you just might be right.sucks i'm gonna have to give these guys up i think


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

what about solo? can they thrive solo? i want whats best for the fish..its not just about my wants.


----------



## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

they can thrive solo...there are all male set-ups with one of each species but that takes time to weed out females. id say a 6 gallon is too small for even one cichlid unless its a quarentine for new juveniles. even very small shell-dwellers need at least a 10 gallon. you could go on craigs list and get a cheap 55. if youre serious just break down and get the largest tank you can house then stock it accordingly with the fish you cant live without. with a larger tank come more posssibilities. it may be a big expense now but in a year you wont even miss the money and youll be glad you went bigger


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

*steelers fan*


> with a larger tank come more posssibilities. it may be a big expense now but in a year you wont even miss the money and youll be glad you went bigger


 :thumb:


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

do you think my 6 gl will be okay for these guys for the next few months? i really want too get a 29gl(one of those kits that top fin and a few others make)i can pick one up for under 200 buck soi could get one in a month or two then add another month to get a headstart on the cycle.they seem to have plenty of space but i havent kept fish for long and never had any cichlids and im really happy with these guys plus they were a gift from my wife and i dont want to give them up.

note: heres a pic of the tank, it has a filter thats good enough for a 20gl or so im told by fluval(33-100gph ajustable).a lighly stocked 20gl at best imo but still great for a 6g.










thanks for your help btw.


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

malawi cichlids need to be kept in much larger tanks, a 29 is just simply too small


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> malawi cichlids need to be kept in much larger tanks, a 29 is just simply too small


why if its just one or two?


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

heres one that shows how small these guys are now for the tank(keyword NOW)










note the pewter figure beow tank is almost exactly one inch


----------



## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

we only say get a larger tank because to cut down on the effects of aggression these fish especially the socolofi need an overstocked tank. more fish mean that no one fish will be singled out. i see this turning out a couple of ways...when these fish get a little bigger maybe in a few months the socolofi will harrass the acei to the point of stressed death or they will both hide so much you wont even know you have fish in there.

so not only does the size of the fish dictate tank size but also aggression and the ability to maintain the tank effectively

you _can_ upgrade slowly and you did mention a 29. the same money you pay for that 29 kit you can get a 55 or even a 75 with all equipment on craigs list and even alot of yardsales.

*** been keeping mbuna for almost 10 years now and just from my experience and only my opinion i would not keep either of these fish in anything less than a 55. i _would_ get more acei (4) 1m/3f more socolofi(6) 1m/5f and maybe some yellow labs(6) 1m/5f. not only would you have a nice looking full tank but you fish will always be out and aggression will be kept in check.

all that being said these are your fish and whatever you decide to do, keep a good quality test kit. and as long as your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as well as ph and temp are kept stable id say you have no problems. just keep our suggestions in mind down the road.


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

don't ask advice if you're going to fight it

The best way to keep cichlids is in groups in larger tanks. As stated before, even a 55 is small for the acei. if you want somehting for smaller tanks then tangs are well suited for that, but as for malawi cichlids I and quite a few others would suggest getting at least a 55, you do not get the full benefit of keeping them if you just keep one or two males in a small tank, one or two males that may end up ripping each other apart at that


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> don't ask advice if you're going to fight it
> 
> The best way to keep cichlids is in groups in larger tanks. As stated before, even a 55 is small for the acei. if you want somehting for smaller tanks then tangs are well suited for that, but as for malawi cichlids I and quite a few others would suggest getting at least a 55, you do not get the full benefit of keeping them if you just keep one or two males in a small tank, one or two males that may end up ripping each other apart at that


first of, im not fighting your advice i am trying to get an answer if they will be ok in the tank they are in till i can upgrade.i like the idea of a 55 even new i can find kits for under $200.but i knew they would need an upgrade and was trying to make sure i had time and wasnt making them live where they are miserable.

thanks Steeler, but as far as cjacob if your here to cause problems and be confronational, go elsewhere. as for space the same can be said for your betta!


----------



## il0veCichlids (Nov 9, 2009)

craiglist can suply u large used tanks for the cheapest price ever! go check it out. dont buy brand new ones from the store its not worth it. i myself have 2 yellow tail acei in my 45 gallon. they've gotten too big... all my fish have gotten too big. im going to upgrade sooner or later!


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

i found someone in the next town over(i live in a small place)that is giving away a 50 gallon with stand,all i gotta do is pick it up.


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

> cjacob316 wrote:
> malawi cichlids need to be kept in much larger tanks, a 29 is just simply too small
> 
> *pufffreely*
> why if its just one or two?


this is what i consider fighting the advice, we both said you need bigger than a 29, you asked why if it's just the two, we both then explained why, it would be a complete waste to buy a 29 then a 55 later on, i'm not a fish whisperer i can't tell if they are fine in a 6 gallon tank, but i can tell you that maintaining that small of a tank means daily water changes to make sure they grow healthy, just remember that you came here for help, we try to provide it, i'm sorry if i get a bit upset and defensive when people don't accept it very easily, just makes it feel like i wasted my time saying anything in the first place

*il0veCichlids* is right about craiglist, but don't get pulled into paying more than 150 for a 55 with stand, too many people try to sell 55's for over 200, it's almost like there is a $150 floor on tank prices, i saw a 10 gallon and stand listed for $150, i bought a 90 gallon with stand for $150 so craigslist can be good, but it can also be unreasonable


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

pufffreely said:


> i found someone in the next town over(i live in a small place)that is giving away a 50 gallon with stand,all i gotta do is pick it up.


if you really want to keep these guys and have a good african cichlid setup, make the sure tank's footprint is at least 48"x13"


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

cjacob316 said:


> malawi cichlids need to be kept in much larger tanks, a 29 is just simply too small


All Malawian cichlids? Why do you say that?


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

size, aggression, bio load

there might be some exceptions (his fish are not) but i don't give that type of advice, i tend to play it safer than a lot of people here, and a 30 inch tank is not safe, it's a risk. you can't call that *bad* advice though


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

All tank sizes with cichlids are a risk. I've kept and bred Malawian cichlids in 29 gallon aquariums for some time (decades). I've known other breeders who have bred colonies in tanks that size.

I find the best advice is specific for the example, not an over generalization that will have exceptions to it. In this case, the statement that (all) Malawian Cichlids need to be kept in much larger tanks, is simply false, without much further clarification.


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

ok, well in the future i'll be more careful with my generaliztions

what do you think about his fish though? i know you can give a lot of good insight to his situation, maybe you can offer up something steelersfan and i didn't think of

i admittedly don't have near enough experience with mbuna to comfortably suggest anything smaller than a 55, and i have even found a 55 to be small at times


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

thanks fogelhund... i dont want a tank with more than a couple fish in it, i want something that can house like 3 african cichlids(like the two i have)at most. if i get all males i dont see how it wouldnt work in a 30gl or so. also is there any hope that these guys wont hit the six inch mark( was lead to belive that 2 inch was the min and six was the max at the time i bought them.)

note. i want to add that daily water changes are ridiculus. im in the habit of changing all my tanks twice a week(10-20). i highly doubt that these 2 inch long fish will dirty my six gallon tank faster than my fully stocked ten gallons. also the six has twice the filtration that the 10's do.but i know thi will change as they grow..not to be mean but i am not here to learn how to care for a aquarium,for i am well versed in this, i am here to find a way two keep my fish, i know little to nothing about cichlids but i'm loving these little guys and will do what is needed of me to keep them. i just dont really know what that is.


----------



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

cichlids can dirty the tank pretty quickly, when raising young fish even in my 10 gallon tank i have to do very frequent water changes and my guys are less than an inch, and generally fish reach the maximum size, if they don't then they are not healthy


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

In almost every case, three Malawian cichlids is a bad idea. It just isn't enough to spread aggression around, unless you get fairly lucky.

The acei is a fish that is ok in your tank size aggression wise, but probably could get too big as a mature adult. Many people will feed their fish too much, and too often allowing an acei to grow to 6-8". There more normal size should be 4-6", and if you keep them from being fat, and feed a good pellet, you can keep the size from being extreme.

The socolofi is probably going to be too aggressive.

My suggestion would be 5-6 cichlids, if that works for you, I can give you a small list of fish that might work together, but even then it is a small tank, and you might need to do some trial and error to find a mix that works. Even fish that "often" work together, won't always, so you might have some losses along the way.


----------



## pufffreely (Dec 13, 2009)

five or six works for me for sure.could the light colored one be "Melanochromis Joanjohnsonae" it looks more like that than the socolofi to me, like the thinner jaw/face,or am i just wrong?A list of compatible fish would be great!!

the wife and i have chosen to keep these guys and get a 29 or 50 gl as soon as we can.i know i have a lot to research to do and some money to save but even after only one day i've grown fond of the antics of these fish.you guys have been a great help and i thank you..its good to know a place to get help when i dive in just to find its the shallow end.


----------



## poseidons minions (Dec 1, 2009)

acei are cool in large groups


----------

