# So if I want a yellow and blue tank....PART 2!!



## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Ok, so after my initial question and several days of responses and researching, I have narrowed my choices down.

Recap: I have a 55 gallon with black background, feather rock, mexican beach stones, and flat rock... Crushed shells and sand as my substrate....Rena xp4 filter (getting a small HOB filter too very soon).

I am going for the yellow and blue fish theme. Currently, I have 4 yellow labs in my tank. Too young to know if they are male or female. How many of each of the fish listed below can I have in a 55 gallon?

Metriaclima callainos
Pseudotropheus sp. "Kingsizei" 
Yellow Labs
Synodontis multipunctatus (as a small cleaning crew)

Other options for blue fish are...
Yellow Tail Acei
Cynotilapia Hara Gallireya Reef

Also, Demasoni and Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos/maingano are out! I don't want any of those in my tank. I don't think I want a BN pleco anymore either. So from the list above, what can I do with it??? And any other advice is welcome as well. Yellow labs are a 100% sure thing. I need help with blues.

Thanks a ton!!


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

Most people will probably tell you to pick 3 species and stock 5 of each. This is a good rule of thumb, but I tend to bend the rules a bit.

I would keep your 4 labs, when they breed you could keep 2 or 3 of the fry to bolster the colony.

Then add 5 M. callainos or P. socolofi... Those two species look nearly identical with the exception of a black stripe running down the dorsal of the socolofi.

I would avoid Kingsizei because of the drab females and their aggression. You could substitute C. Hara, but you could end up with hybridization between the haras and the callainos. I would suggest a colony of 5 C. afra cobue or C. sp. Mbweca. The cobues would complement both yellow and blue.

Then I would add a fourth species (bending the rules) this could be I. sprengerae or Ps. acei.

Now, if you aren't interested in breeding, you could substitute the kingsizei, hara, or cobue for Ps. saulosi, M. Msobo, or Ps. polit. You could also add lab. sp. Perlmutt, lab. textilis, M. barlowi, or M. estherae. Some of these fish can get really agressive so be careful about adding conspecifics.

If I were you, I would shoot for the following stcoklist. Although ratios aren't as important with monomorphic species I would try to limit the males to 1-2 per species. I have 5 listed rather than 4 or 6 because I was once told that odd numbers work better for keeping agression down. It doesn't make sense why it would work, but it has for me. Could be coincidence or luck, but 5 is a nice number to try for.

5 Labs

5 Callainos or Socolofi

5 Acei or Sprengerae

5 C. Mbweca or Cobue

I like to have options open when I put together a stock list. Sometimes a particular species is unavailable or you can get a good deal on another, etc. Unless you are stuck on a particular species I like to keep it so that I am not stuck looking for one species. You are also more likely to actually get fully stocked if you have options.


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

Might look at the cynotilapia afra (Jalo reefs)

They are a nice blue mbuna as well.

I would go with 5 of each species, then 2-3 Petricola over multipunctatus because petricola stay smaller.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

bac3492 said:


> Might look at the cynotilapia afra (Jalo reefs)
> 
> They are a nice blue mbuna as well.
> 
> I would go with 5 of each species, then 2-3 Petricola over multipunctatus because petricola stay smaller.


The Jalo Reef is pretty. It stays small too, which I like. I don't like the way the female looks though. One male of different species be ok or will that cause aggression between them? I am still learning here! I want bright blues and don't care for having drab females.


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

You should just do one big colony of Psuedotropheus Saulosi or Metrialcima Msobo.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Stickzula said:


> Then add 5 M. callainos or P. socolofi... Those two species look nearly identical with the exception of a black stripe running down the dorsal of the socolofi.
> 
> I would avoid Kingsizei because of the drab females and their aggression. You could substitute C. Hara, but you could end up with hybridization between the haras and the callainos. I would suggest a colony of 5 C. afra cobue or C. sp. Mbweca. The cobues would complement both yellow and blue.


Holy cow! The Cynotilapia afra "Cobue" is beautiful and it's a dwarf mbuna!! I would want only males of this fish b/c the female isn't too smashing. I should only have one male though right? The P. socolofi is pretty too.


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## natalie559 (Dec 6, 2007)

CutieSusieQ said:


> The Cynotilapia afra "Cobue" is beautiful and it's a dwarf mbuna!! I would want only males of this fish b/c the female isn't too smashing.


Mixing one lone male into a mix of breeding groups isn't the best plan. If he has no females of his own he will stake claim to any females he sees fit in the tank. Also a lot of the cyno are more aggressive and I thought you wanted less aggressive. Not sure of the aggressiveness of the cobue specifically though.

And regarding the syno catfish- I would get 5 minimum as they like to be in groups and will come out much more when in a group. I do think you should add them to your list as they are really neat pretty fish- love to see them cruising the bottom!


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

natalie559 said:


> And regarding the syno catfish- I would get 5 minimum as they like to be in groups and will come out much more when in a group. I do think you should add them to your list as they are really neat pretty fish- love to see them cruising the bottom!


Petricola or multipunctatus? Which do you like better?


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

Multipunctatus will take up a lot of space you would want for your cichlids. I prefer the petricola.


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## natalie559 (Dec 6, 2007)

bac3492 said:


> Multipunctatus will take up a lot of space you would want for your cichlids. I prefer the petricola.


I agree and like the white edging around the fins which the multis don't have.


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## kodyboy (Dec 9, 2007)

I like the fish listed below, but besides the accei, I have found cyaneorhabdos to be less aggressive than any of them, and demasoni only pick on each other (they rarely bother other fish that do not look like them). Why are these two species "out"? Did you have a bad experience with them? IMO you can not get a better blue/yellow combo than yellow labs + either demasoni or cyaneorhabdos or both

Metriaclima callainos
Pseudotropheus sp. "Kingsizei"
Yellow Tail Acei
Cynotilapia Hara Gallireya Reef 
M. callainos 
P. socolofi
cynotilapia afra (Jalo reefs)

I would put in at least two more yellow labs. The M/F ratio does not matter much for them.
I like petricola cats better too.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

kodyboy said:


> Why are these two species "out"? Did you have a bad experience with them? IMO you can not get a better blue/yellow combo than yellow labs + either demasoni or cyaneorhabdos or both


Well, I just don't like the cyaneorhabdos. I have one now who is being re-homed this Sunday. I sold him to someone on Craig's List. He is extremely psycho. I know it's probably worse b/c he's the only one I have with my 4 labs. I also don't like the shape of him; kinda long and narrow. As for the demasoni, I have just read a lot about them that I'm not fond of. I have read that they have to be in larger groups to not kill each other. I have also read that they are a very sensitive fish and often die before other fish will if there is just a slight variation in the water perimeters. I have been reading a lot but I'm still gettin nowhere, lol. I like the way the demasoni look but I think the Metriaclima callainos looks much better.

I was hoping I could have more yellow labs than 4. I love them! They are so pretty. It's tempting to just do a 55 gallon full of yellow labs, lol, but I know after awhile I'd want another color swimming around. I think yellow contrasts with blue so beautifully. Purple would be a good contrasting color against yellow too. Ahhhhhh! I just want to scream!! I never thought choosing fish would take me this long!


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

My 30 gallon is blue and yellow. I like it alot. A couple of labs and 5 cynotilapia sp. hara.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I agree with many of the posters that the kingsizei are more aggressive than maingano, so if you don't like maingano, you wouldn't want kingsizei. IME same goes for Socolofi, or I would have suggested them long ago.

Cobue fits your "low aggression" criteria, but has drab females, as does the kingsizei. Mixing a single male with breeding groups would cause aggression and hybridization.

Maybe just do the labs and callainos?

(Not trying to talk you into the Demasoni, they are aggressive, but in the interest of correct information, they are NOT any more sensitive to illness or maintenance neglect than any other fish.)

And I'd stock multipunctatus if you don't want to be bothered with fry because they are better at fry control. I love both my multi's and my Lucipinnis...wouldn't be without either. The multi's are larger but spots are more attractive and much more active than my Lucipinnis. The Lucipinnis are just cute cause they are small (I like small fish).


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## ManicHispanic (Mar 26, 2009)

SQ I'm following your thread with much interest since I'm looking to do the same type color stocking. Right now I have yellow labs in my 55 and leaning towards

_Metriaclima greshakei_
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=794

These little guys will be ready in another 3 weeks or so.









Looking forward to seeing your tank. Good luck with your choices.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> Maybe just do the labs and callainos?


This is probably what I am going to end up doing. I love both of them. But some suggest that I need at least 3 species (not counting the catfish). What do you think? Do I need a third? Would yellow tail acei be a good 3rd group?


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

you dont need a third.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

ManicHispanic said:


> SQ I'm following your thread with much interest since I'm looking to do the same type color stocking. Right now I have yellow labs in my 55 and leaning towards
> 
> Looking forward to seeing your tank. Good luck with your choices.


The Metriaclima greshakei are beautiful ( the males are anyway). The females aren't! Isn't that a shame how most females in the animal kingdom lack color and vibrance. :? I am sooo ready to take photos of my tank. I'm just waiting to stock it first :thumb: I am actually a nature photographer, but I have never attempted aqaurium photography. Soon enough I will!


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

I expect some dam good pictures if your a professional photographer.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

bac3492 said:


> I expect some dam good pictures if your a professional photographer.


hahaha! I didn't say professional. I am an ameatur with a ton of experience :thumb: But usually my subject matter is not behind a glass. Soooo, we'll see what I can do.


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## Matt1986 (May 15, 2009)

If you like the idea of yellow and purple, and are concerned about aggression, why not just stock labs and acei? Both are pretty peaceful so far as mbuna go, look great, and will occupy different strata of the tank too. I think you could have a really great looking tank with say 8 of each.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5bggvdU ... re=channel

Just my 2c

Matt


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## kodyboy (Dec 9, 2007)

the callainos are more aggressive than the accei, so if you want a really peaceful tank then 8 yellow labs and 6 accei (they get large) would look very nice. I am sure the callainos and labs would work fine however. 
In my experience I have not found demasoni to to be the little demons that others seem to have. They do fight amongst themselves, but I have not had any deaths with them. I do start with larger groups (15-20) so maybe that helps. It is really hard to get a more vibrant blue in mbuna than demasoni or cyaneorhabdos.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Matt1986 said:


> If you like the idea of yellow and purple, and are concerned about aggression, why not just stock labs and acei? Both are pretty peaceful so far as mbuna go, look great, and will occupy different strata of the tank too. I think you could have a really great looking tank with say 8 of each.
> Matt


The yellow tail acei has definitely got my attention.


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## Terrence23 (Oct 2, 2008)

If you're still considering the Cyno Hara White Top, here are pics of a male and female I have:

Wild Male:









Holding Female. The coloration for females probably isn't as intense as you might be looking for:









Their aggression is about mid level but they can't be mixed with other zebra type cichlids.

Another suggestion is Fuelleborni such as the OB "marmalade cat" which I'm looking into myself. They have nice males and females.

I was disappointed in regular Acei myself. They never really colored up beyond an unattractive silvery blue for me and were way too timid.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Terrence23 said:


> If you're still considering the Cyno Hara White Top, here are pics of a male and female I have:
> 
> Another suggestion is Fuelleborni such as the OB "marmalade cat" which I'm looking into myself. They have nice males and females.
> 
> I was disappointed in regular Acei myself. They never really colored up beyond an unattractive silvery blue for me and were way too timid.


Beautiful fish you have! The marmalade cat is probably a bit out of my price range.


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## natalie559 (Dec 6, 2007)

CutieSusieQ said:


> The marmalade cat is probably a bit out of my price range.


A known male might be, but OB females/standard males aren't. Around $10 a piece or so on aquabid. Love mine.

I think your idea of labs and callainos sounds good.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd probably avoid acei, although they could work, because they are large fish. Greshakei is pretty high on the aggression scale, and only the male is colorful. Since you REALLY like the callainos, it sounds like that's what would make you happy. You don't need 3 species, if you go with two just get more of each, how about 8?

You will probably have to remove callainos males eventually so you end up with one.


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

you could alternatively, go with an all male hap/peacock tank. Usually it is not recommended that mbuna be kept with either haps or peacocks, but labs are the exception. Since you are stocking a 55, you need to be mindful of the adult sizes and pick fish that max out at about 6". For your yellow and blue scheme, Copadichromis azureus, Otopharynx lithobates (Zimbawe), Placidochromis electra, Aulonocara baenschi, A. jacobfreibergi (Undu Reef), A. kandeense, A. koningsi, A. masoni, A. sp. lwanda, A. maylandi, A. stuartgranti blue neon, A. stuartgranti usisya flavescent, and any A. sp. sturatgranti maleri. I would keep the your 4 labs and them pick 7 or so individual males from these species.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> I'd probably avoid acei, although they could work, because they are large fish. Greshakei is pretty high on the aggression scale, and only the male is colorful. Since you REALLY like the callainos, it sounds like that's what would make you happy. You don't need 3 species, if you go with two just get more of each, how about 8?
> 
> You will probably have to remove callainos males eventually so you end up with one.


Hello again... ok, another question. Remember, I'm learning here so I hope I'm not annoying you :wink:

Why do you say the acei will get too big? I checked out the profile page on the callainos and the yellow tail acei and the max size for both of these fish is 6" according to the profile information. Are acei known to grow larger than 6 inches... or are callainos known to grow smaller? Is 6" too big of a fish, especially when I have several in a 55 gallon?

:fish: I just felt like using this swimming fish emoticon for some reason, hehe


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Stickzula said:


> you could alternatively, go with an all male hap/peacock tank. Usually it is not recommended that mbuna be kept with either haps or peacocks, but labs are the exception. Since you are stocking a 55, you need to be mindful of the adult sizes and pick fish that max out at about 6". For your yellow and blue scheme, Copadichromis azureus, Otopharynx lithobates (Zimbawe), Placidochromis electra, Aulonocara baenschi, A. jacobfreibergi (Undu Reef), A. kandeense, A. koningsi, A. masoni, A. sp. lwanda, A. maylandi, A. stuartgranti blue neon, A. stuartgranti usisya flavescent, and any A. sp. sturatgranti maleri. I would keep the your 4 labs and them pick 7 or so individual males from these species.


Your suggestions are making my eyes cross, lol. I'm fairly new to African Cichlids and the names are blowing my mind. I will check out these fish online to see what they look like and stuff....thank you for your advice.


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## Terrence23 (Oct 2, 2008)

CutieSusieQ said:


> Stickzula said:
> 
> 
> > you could alternatively, go with an all male hap/peacock tank. Usually it is not recommended that mbuna be kept with either haps or peacocks, but labs are the exception. Since you are stocking a 55, you need to be mindful of the adult sizes and pick fish that max out at about 6". For your yellow and blue scheme, Copadichromis azureus, Otopharynx lithobates (Zimbawe), Placidochromis electra, Aulonocara baenschi, A. jacobfreibergi (Undu Reef), A. kandeense, A. koningsi, A. masoni, A. sp. lwanda, A. maylandi, A. stuartgranti blue neon, A. stuartgranti usisya flavescent, and any A. sp. sturatgranti maleri. I would keep the your 4 labs and them pick 7 or so individual males from these species.
> ...


I've seen some videos posted here of mixed Peacock and Haps tanks and they are incredible looking but require a big tank like 125G or larger to work. Not to mention that grown colored up haps and peacocks are generally much more expensive than mbuna(check out aquabid). The females tend to be very drab too.


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

there are pics and info on all of those in the profiles section so you don't even have to search far :thumb: lol


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

The Acei get to about 6" but they could work in a 55. People have done it with success. I think it's up to you and what you like (with the obvious exception of fish that will get way too big).

And even with the horror stories you hear, 12-15 demasoni and 6 yellow labs lok amazing in a 55G.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Whereas a lot of the fish in the profiles that say 6" might stay a little smaller (so 6" tends to be the max), the Acei fairly commonly get larger. They also like to be in groups of 5-6 and need a lot of swimming room. But like others have said, people have done it. I just avoided including them in my recommendations for this reason. Plus you said you prefer smaller fish and really love the callainos.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Thanks everyone... I have a lot to think about. I will let ya know what I decide...when I decide.


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## Bweb (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm Changing my user name to CutieBwebieQ to ensure plenty of responses to my posts :lol:


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Bweb said:


> I'm Changing my user name to CutieBwebieQ to ensure plenty of responses to my posts :lol:


Hahaha, I hope that works out for you!! :thumb:

Ohhh, and just in case anyone would like to know about why I use the name "CutieSusieQ" it's b/c that is what my husband nicknamed me many many many years ago in high school. I use that silly name just about everywhere I go online. I guess its a sentimental thing.


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## billyh (May 24, 2009)

keep asking all the questions for me susie as i am sitting on my 125 gallon tank with only 8 labs now and will add the rest or at least more once i get my head around all the choices .....


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> keep asking all the questions for me susie as i am sitting on my 125 gallon tank with only 8 labs now and will add the rest or at least more once i get my head around all the choices .....


Dude, 6ft tank - Haps!!! How would this guy look? Blue and Yellow - too big for Suzie's tank but perfect for you...










I would seriously expand my search with a six foot tank v. what is being mentioned in this thread for a 55. My apologies to the mbuna only lovers, but in a 6ft tank, some larger haps would be awesome with your labs. A large fully colored male hap just can't be beat IMHO.

If you were near me I could give you free babies. Yes, that is dad above...


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## malawi_luver (May 5, 2004)

Goofboy is right, sorry to hijack your thread but honestly if you have a 6 foot tank and blue/yellow is your preferred color choices than male peacocks and haps along with acei would look fantastic 

Anyway be sure to keep us updated on both tanks you two .


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## garett1020 (Apr 8, 2009)

haps all the way


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

If I had a larger tank than a 55 gallon, I would definitely go haps and peacocks. I would do all male for sure too!! In fact, I just sold a Super VC-10 (baby) because I knew it was going to grow too big for my 55 gallon. Only reason I had it in the first place was due to the bad advice of the fish storeowner! But anyway....I really liked that fish because it wasn't territorial at all. It was a very low key, easygoing fish. And as a full grown male it would have been beautiful....but not in a 55 gallon


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## billyh (May 24, 2009)

i agree but since learning its good to watch other threads for ideas 8) 
others put in comments about variety of fish that i watch and learn
wont match her tank and already had my own thread going but learning and its a good start


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

GoofBoy said:


> Dude, 6ft tank - Haps!!! How would this guy look? Blue and Yellow - too big for Suzie's tank but perfect for you...


That fish is beautiful, btw.


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## billyh (May 24, 2009)

yes what is it i may add it to my logn confused list


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Ok....I know this isn't the "proper" place to put my photos but since someone mentioned photos of my tank earlier in this thread I decided to post them here.

I took these tonight. I just wanted to show you guys my tank (55 gallon). Only 4 yellows labs live in it right now, but that will change once I make up my mind, hehe. This is my first real attempt at aquarium photography. Once I stock my tank with more fish, I will break out my macro lens and post better photos.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Making final decision on 55 gallon...

Before I am 100% confident about a tank of Yellow Labs and Callainos, I would just like to know what some others think about a tank of Yellow Labs and Yellow Tail Acei or a tank of Yellow Labs and Socolofi...........I have read that the Acei may grow too large and the Socolofi may be too aggressive but I am hoping to get some advice from people who have experience with them. I am trying to find a fish that both males and females will be a beautiful shade of blue or purple to mix with my Yellow Labs. I know everyone keeps saying go Demasoni, but I'm scared the dems will be too dark colored against my black background (see photos in above post). What you think? For now I just want two species in my tank (not counting catfish), and I'm not too concerned about crossbreeding because hopefully the catfish will take care of the fry (I know that sounds mean) 

I'm just about ready to finalize my decision...I think, haha. Believe it or not I've come a long way and I've learned a lot from you all.


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## kodyboy (Dec 9, 2007)

I would go with the Callainos, accei get too big and socolofi are more aggressive.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I know some people have luck with it but personally I don't think a 55g. tank is big enough for acei and the way they like to swim. Socolofi would look good with yellow labs. They would both have the black in the top fin. I've heard they can be aggressive too so I would add the yellow labs first then it should be ok.


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## eclipse99 (Apr 22, 2003)

Demasoni you wont see much other then the males or at feeding time,Demasoni males are very aggressive towards each other and will constanly being chasing your females into hiding.They also keep that torpedo look and the females dont get large at all.

Socolofi are very similiar in color and growth size to the cobalt blues but have the aggression of the demasoni.

Acei do get larger but keeping 3 in a 55 wouldnt be bad.They do travel in a groups which is why they say(I guess)to keep at least 4 but i have had success with 3 in a tank before with no problems.The ones *** had there colors change going from very dark blue(almost black)to lighter purplish blue.There temperment is great though and have never had issues with aggression.

Cobalts blues(Callainos)i still think are the best choice cause of color,temperment and size.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I didn't read the entire thread, but from your initial choices, I would go with M. callainos and yellow labs only. :thumb:

It should be a stunning tank if you can find quality fish.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Ok, looks like Cobalts blues (Callainos) are winning.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

*billyh*


> yes what is it i may add it to my logn confused list


Protomelas sp. "Spilonotus Tanzania" (Liuli)


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I do have experience with the Acei (but not in a 55G) and I got rid of them. I like the colors of many other fish better and I prefer small fish. I also have experience with Socolofi. Although I prefer them to zebra types for their streamlined shape (as opposed to the robust zebra shape), they ARE on the aggressive side. I'd vote you go with labs and callainos.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Labs and Callainos it is.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I don't think you'll be sorry. It's something I've always considered trying, and I should have done it back when I was mass producing my own Cobalts - they were the nicest I've ever seen, and one of my biggest "I wish I had kept them" fish.

I'd go with 10 of each species, shooting for no more than 3 male Cobalts as adults.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

cichlidaholic said:


> I don't think you'll be sorry. It's something I've always considered trying, and I should have done it back when I was mass producing my own Cobalts - they were the nicest I've ever seen, and one of my biggest "I wish I had kept them" fish.
> 
> I'd go with 10 of each species, shooting for no more than 3 male Cobalts as adults.


Ok, sounds good. Now I just have to find a place to get em!


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## natalie559 (Dec 6, 2007)

CutieSusieQ said:


> Ok, sounds good. Now I just have to find a place to get em!


Saw these on aquabid- close to you too- http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1244859005

and some that aren't so close, http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1244866215

and some in between, http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1245165474


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

natalie559 said:


> CutieSusieQ said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, sounds good. Now I just have to find a place to get em!
> ...


I checked out Aquabid. I just don't know about that site. I am used to eBay and I can hardly navigate myself around on Aquabid, lol. I know its because I am new to the site. Is there a way to check seller's feedback and comments from their buyers like there is on eBay? Thank you so much for looking up this stuff for me, btw.

Nevermind...I found out how to check their feedback.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Ok... since I finally know I want Yellow Labs and Cobalt Blues my next question is........

Can I add 15+ fish at once to my tank? Or should I add a few at a time? I have a Rena xp4 canister filter and an AquaClear HOB filter so I have plenty of filtration. I made sure of that! My water perimeters are all fine too. My tank has been cycled for awhile now. I have 4 yellow labs in there now but would like to have 8 to 10 yellow labs and 8 to 10 cobalts with 3 or 4 catfish.

If it's best to add them at seperate times then I probably won't buy them online considering shipping is $35+ each time. I just need to know. Thanks


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Since you already have the yellow labs in there, your bacteria have grown to support 4 fish. You can't add 15 without a problem. The filters just provide a place for the bacteria to grow, but the colony grows (or dies off) sufficient to "eat" the ammonia created by the fish. More fish, more ammonia, and you need to allow growing time for the bacteria.

So I'd add them in groups. Since it's a 55G I would not go above 8 of each and 4-5 catfish. I'd add the catfish last.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> So I'd add them in groups. Since it's a 55G I would not go above 8 of each and 4-5 catfish. I'd add the catfish last.


Groups of how many? 4 Labs... then 4 Blues... then 4 more Blues... then 4 catfish? Or 4 labs...then 8 blues...then 4 catfish? Or what?


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

I would agree that adding 15 fish at once would be taxing on your bio load. However, I would do it.

Chances are you will be adding juvies not adults so that will lessen the affect on the bacteria. Keep an eye on the ammonia level over the first few days and do a 50%-80% water change after the first day. If you notice the ammonia going up/registering at all after the first water change, do another on the next day. Repeat until the tank is recycled.

Keep a bottle of prime handy in case it gets out of control on you. In an emergency you can use up to 5x the normal dose and it will neutralize ammonia and nitrIte.

Watch the fish for signs of an ammonia spike. This would include labored breathing and most or all of the fish at the top of the tank pointing up. If you notice any of that do a 50% water change ASAP and use up to a 5x dose of prime. I doubt that it would go out of control like that on you, but it is better to be prepared.

Another option could be artificially building the bacteria colony up by adding ammonia to the tank. I have no experience with fish less cycling so I don't know if this would be a viable option or not, but it makes sense in theory. I would be worried about adding too much ammonia to the tank, causing a crash and losing fish. With my experience I wouldn't try it.

One way to save on some shipping is to use priority mail. It is a 2 day service to most areas. I have had shipments go 4 days and the fish have been fine. The major issue that I have had has been having the box crushed and bursting the bags. I talked to the post office about it and they said that when the package is dropped off to request that it be shipped in one of those white plastic USPS bins. They said that if you request it they will do it and it will get there unharmed.

For most shipments the priority price is less than $20. I paid as little as $13 before. It depends on the weight of the box and the distance of the shipment. I have some 2.5"+ labs that I am looking to re-home. PM me if you are interested. And good luck getting your tank stocked!


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## jh82 (Oct 26, 2007)

Add some bio sprira or one of the other biological starters that work when you add the 15 fish. I believe Tetra Safe Start or Dr Tim's One and Only have the required bacteria. I'm not sure if Bio Spira is actually being made anymore.


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

jh82 said:


> Add some bio sprira or one of the other biological starters that work when you add the 15 fish. I believe Tetra Safe Start or Dr Tim's One and Only have the required bacteria. I'm not sure if Bio Spira is actually being made anymore.


Good advice :thumb: bio spira is now tetra safe start. seachem stabilize will also work.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If at all possible, I would add more yellow labs first, let them settle in for a week or so, then add the Cobalts.

There are two reasons for this...

In reality, your bioload is built up to manage the waste produced by those four yellow labs. Adding all the fish at once _could_ throw you into another cycle, which can do long term damage to your fish. (You can handle this by monitoring the water very closely, doing possible daily water changes, and feeding very sparingly.)

Also, doing it this way gives the more mild mannered yellow labs time to settle in and feel at home before the Cobalts come in and start trying to take over the tank.

If you have to order them in order to get what you want, I wouldn't blame you for ordering them all at once. Just be aware that you're going to have to keep a very close eye on your water for a couple of weeks. :thumb:


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Ok...I am still searching for a place in NC that sells Cobalts. If I have to I'll drive to Va or SC too as long as it's not hours and hours away. I have kids to think about too!!

I have emailed a few places and called a few others. I am hoping someone will email me back! I prefer to buy them in person and not have them shipped. But if I have to have them shipped I will probably buy at least the 8 Cobalts at once and follow the advice I was given on here.

Yellow labs are easy to find around here so it's not necessary to have them shipped.

I didn't think adding all the fish at once would be a smart thing to do, but I just wanted to ask anyway. At most, I would be adding 8 cobalts at once. I'm going to add the 4 other yellow labs first, probably this weekend.


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

Sounds like you have a good handle on it =D> You don't need our advice afterall


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Stickzula said:


> Sounds like you have a good handle on it =D> You don't need our advice afterall


Hahaha, actually your advice is exactly what I need. It is what has led me to this point of decision making. I have been all over this forum learning stuff. I have received so much help on this forum it's unreal. I think you're all great. And I am so glad I ran across this site. I don't know where I would be today if I hadn't found you guys!


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Since we haven't mentioned the "cleaning crew" lately....I would like to ask if it it ok to have both Petricola and Multipunctatus? After I add the yellow labs and then the cobalt blues, my next step is adding the catfish. I was thinking about adding 3 or 4 petricola and maybe 2 or 3 multipunctatus. Is this ok? Do they go together ok? Also, are these fish related to the Spotted Pictus Catfish? All I can find around here are the pictus catfish.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Stay away from the spotted pims, unless you want to replace alot of nets! Their barbs get hung up in the nets so bad that they usually wind up having to be cut free and swim out the rest of their lives with net attached to their whiskers! 

I wouldn't mix my Synodontis. I would choose one or the other.

(I'm old and senile but I think this is a 55G and I don't have time to read back and find out...If so, I wouldn't want more than 3 or 4 total.)


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

cichlidaholic said:


> Stay away from the spotted pims, unless you want to replace alot of nets! Their barbs get hung up in the nets so bad that they usually wind up having to be cut free and swim out the rest of their lives with net attached to their whiskers!
> 
> I wouldn't mix my Synodontis. I would choose one or the other.
> 
> (I'm old and senile but I think this is a 55G and I don't have time to read back and find out...If so, I wouldn't want more than 3 or 4 total.)


Yes it's a 55. And that's funny that you say that about the spotted pims. I actually have one in another tank and yes...that exact thing happened. I had to cut him free and buy a new net. I also have a Striped Raphael Catfish in another tank. I heard they are good with cichlids but I wouldn't know by experience. I don't like him too much b/c he stays hidden all the time. I thought he had somehow disappered from my tank until I saw him one day when I was re arranging some things. He was still alive and fat, but I swear I NEVER see him..ever. He must eat sometime though. I know they are nocturnal, but I think this one is beyond nocturnal, lol.


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

CutieSusieQ said:


> Yes it's a 55. And that's funny that you say that about the spotted pims. I actually have one in another tank and yes...that exact thing happened. I had to cut him free and buy a new net. I also have a Striped Raphael Catfish in another tank. I heard they are good with cichlids but I wouldn't know by experience. I don't like him too much b/c he stays hidden all the time. I thought he had somehow disappered from my tank until I saw him one day when I was re arranging some things. He was still alive and fat, but I swear I NEVER see him..ever. He must eat sometime though. I know they are nocturnal, but I think this one is beyond nocturnal, lol.


LOL I have a spotted raph and he acts the same way. I have had him for years and see him maybe once a month. That is until recently. He decided he liked a cave that I put near the front so now he spends all day sleeping in the cave with his whole side exposed where I can see him. He is a fatty too! I didn't think that my africans left that much uneaten, but I gess they do. I think that a trio of raphs would be good, but I hear that syno's are very entertaining. For a 55g I would stick with 3-4 petricolas. They stay smaller and are cheaper than multi's.


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## Jab240 (Jun 24, 2007)

> For a 55g I would stick with 3-4 petricolas. They stay smaller and are cheaper than multi's.


I second this. Although the Multis would be better if you were looking for fry control.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Hmmm what to do, what to do!

I just don't know what to do about the catfish. The Petricola stay smaller and cost less but the Multis are better for fry patrol. I don't want a lot of babies. I have no way to rescue and raise them. But I also don't want to get a cleaning crew that will take up too much room in my tank. Hmmmm. I will think on it for awhile. I was hoping I could have both and it wouldn't cause a problem. I first have to get my Cobalts anyway.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

The petricolas plus all the other adult fish in the tank will probably be more than adequate "fry patrol." You may have a fry survive here and there, but that's gonna happen no matter what you put in the tank.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Kanorin said:


> The petricolas plus all the other adult fish in the tank will probably be more than adequate "fry patrol." You may have a fry survive here and there, but that's gonna happen no matter what you put in the tank.


Agreed...


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Ok..thanks again. It would be cool to keep some fry and watch em grow. I'm not a coldhearted person. Really I'm not! I will just have to sale em eventually. I really don't want 15 different tanks around my house, lol.


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## Terrence23 (Oct 2, 2008)

Kanorin said:


> The petricolas plus all the other adult fish in the tank will probably be more than adequate "fry patrol." You may have a fry survive here and there, but that's gonna happen no matter what you put in the tank.


But petricolas don't eat fry like multipunctatus :-? Most of the fry will probably end up eaten by the adults eventually regardless.


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

> Ok..thanks again. It would be cool to keep some fry and watch em grow. I'm not a coldhearted person. Really I'm not! I will just have to sale em eventually. I really don't want 15 different tanks around my house, lol.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: That's what they all say. MTS is VERY catchy. :lol: Honestly though, most fry will be eaten by the adult mbuna unless there is some outside intervention. I usually only end up with a single fry out of a brood(maybe 2) and unless it is exceedingly crafty it will get murdered before it reaches adulthood. Now should any survive, you can sell/give them to someone or your LFS once they get to be 1.5"-2".

Now, if I remember correctly, you are stocking 8ea labs and cobalts in a 55g. If you are leaning toward the multis, you could probably get away with 3 of them. Petricolas would be a much safer bet though.


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## Bweb (Mar 31, 2009)

I started with a 55gal. and know I have 55gal. 125gal. 29gal. 20long and two 10gal. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I also started with Yellow labs and my largest female who is only 2" long is on Her third batch of fry already they are prolific breeder's :lol:

MTS Is no joke I found three LFS that will take the fry off my hands at 1.5"

I also have joined Aquaholics Anonymous Because I can't stop trying to convince my wife to let me get a 75gal. and build a stand to house it over my 55gal. she will cave soon I just know it :lol:

? did you get any fish yet


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Bweb said:


> I started with a 55gal. and know I have 55gal. 125gal. 29gal. 20long and two 10gal. :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> I also started with Yellow labs and my largest female who is only 2" long is on Her third batch of fry already they are prolific breeder's :lol:
> 
> ...


MTS, nice! I have two tanks now. I seriously have no room for more, lol.

And noooo, no fishies yet. Still just have my 4 young yellow labs. I'm having tons of trouble finding the cobalts. I have joined a couple of other sites that are local and I'm asking around. I found one couple who has an adult pair (male and female) that are one year old. They want $20 for the pair. They are 2.5 hours from my house. I am interested, but I should get my juvies in my tank first I would think, right? So, I don't know if they will still be available when I'm ready for them. They sent me some pictures of the pair. They were beautiful. Perfect colors. Male had beautiful egg spots; love em! Said they bought them from Aquabid but are getting into breeding Peacocks and want to sale some of their other fish.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

CutieSusieQ said:


> MTS, nice! I have two tanks now. I seriously have no room for more, lol.


Ummmmm, that's what we all said. :wink:

At one point I had 14 tanks in a one bedroom apartment, and only stopped when I realized I had no place left for guest to sit - there was nothing else to get rid of.

$20 for a nice "pair" isn't a bad price, but you're still going to need more females. A male will eventually kill a lone female if she's the only one of breeding size.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

cichlidaholic said:


> $20 for a nice "pair" isn't a bad price, but you're still going to need more females. A male will eventually kill a lone female if she's the only one of breeding size.


Should I try to find some juvies and add them to my tank first? I would like to have 8 Cobalts total eventually. I didn't know if adding the adult pair would be a bad idea before adding the others??


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Ok...I am sooooo sick of searching for fish. I am just going to order the Cobalts on Aquabid and pray they are as beautiful as the photos.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Just wanted to give y'all an update (I said y'all b/c I'm from the South, haha).

I ordered my fish from LFD and they are being delivered TODAY. I have been tracking the shipment all morning, lol. They are now about 20 mins from my house. I'm so excited but at the same time I am scared too. I just hope they arrive ALIVE!


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## billyh (May 24, 2009)

lol you are worse than i am
i am lining up my next purchase too for july and getting all things ready includnig another filter but look forward to next batch of fish so much injuly


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Ok, my fish are here!!

The water in their bags is bright yellow..so I don't know if I am supposed to add that water to my tank or not. Hmmm


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## billyh (May 24, 2009)

i am not the expert but like you have read lots
i heard you dont add the water from bags to your tank but rather net the fish out of it after they have been acclimatized


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

billyh said:


> i am not the expert but like you have read lots
> i heard you dont add the water from bags to your tank but rather net the fish out of it after they have been acclimatized


I have read not to add the water, but then I read on other sites that it's best to add the water...but I don't think I am going to b/c it is bright (and I mean super bright) yellow/greenish and it's very very dirty with poo!!


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## youngman (May 16, 2009)

i dont think you should ever add the water, you just never know what you could be adding to your tank, acclim the fish then net them, a qt tank would be even better


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

youngman said:


> i dont think you should ever add the water, you just never know what you could be adding to your tank, acclim the fish then net them, a qt tank would be even better


Thank you...netting is what imma go. They are so small that my small net will be perfect to use.


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## billyh (May 24, 2009)

youare liek me and read so many contradictory things
can tsee hwo it woudl help to add it not liek you need bacteria or ph etc as such a small amount would be totally diluted in a tank anyhow so as not to affect it with anything good
but i am nto the expert so sure someoen will fill me inthat i am wrong


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Thank you...netting is what imma go. They are so small that my small net will be perfect to use.


If they are in the bags, sit the bags in the tank for 20 minutes or so unopened to get the temp to match.

Use a large bowl and a strainer (or large net). Gently pour the bag through the strainer (or large net) into the large bowl. Lift the strainer (or large net) with fish into your tank. Discard the water as it has chemicals - sedatives, etc. in it you do not need/want to add to your tank.

No need to net fish out of a bag. Use a bowl instead of sink in case one jumps.

Good Luck with the new babies.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

I netted them out of the bag. This was my first time adding more than one fish to my tank at one time, lol...so I'm still learning, lol. All went well though. My kids had fun holding the bags for me and watching me net them. (and yeah, I let the bags sit in my tank for 30 mins before adding them)

My new fish are sooo pretty in my tank. The yellow labs and blue cobalts look awesome together. The cobalts are sooo tiny, and they are already a beautiful blue color.


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## JayUK (Jun 20, 2009)

Go for acei although not bright blue they have a nice purple/blue sheen and also swim midwater which is unusual for mbuna , ones i kept also had a good temprement .
When fully grown look pretty spectacular too . Good luck with your choices .


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Here some pics of my new Cobalt juvies...



















I took the pics quick b/c I was in a hurry, but you can see them.


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## football mom (Feb 19, 2006)

How are your new little cobalts doing?


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

football mom said:


> How are your new little cobalts doing?


Today is their 2nd day in their new home and they are doing very well. They are swimming around everywhere. They are very active. I have fed them twice since I got them yesterday morning and they definitely like to eat, lol. I noticed that the bigger ones like to suck up sand and spit it out. That's cool to watch. They seem to be very happy. They are so beautiful. Thank you for asking.


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

wow nice looking fish... can we get a whole tank shot? opcorn: Just FYI, I picked up 10 of those juvie petricolas for my tanks. They are the cutest little things. Just barely over an inch swiming in and out of my rockwork. All the other mbuna seem to ignore them. Once they growout a bit I will move some of them into my hap tank. I have some fully grown borleyi and some juvie n. polystigma and I figured the haps would see them as a nice snack LOL.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Stickzula said:


> wow nice looking fish... can we get a whole tank shot? opcorn: Just FYI, I picked up 10 of those juvie petricolas for my tanks. They are the cutest little things. Just barely over an inch swiming in and out of my rockwork. All the other mbuna seem to ignore them. Once they growout a bit I will move some of them into my hap tank. I have some fully grown borleyi and some juvie n. polystigma and I figured the haps would see them as a nice snack LOL.


Sure, I will take a whole tank shot, but they are so small you won't really be able to see my fish clearly, lol. I will do it at night when there isn't so much reflection.

I bet the petricolas are cute. I tried to order some when I bought my Cobalts but they were sold out.


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