# What Type of Fish Food is The Best



## RedRaider15 (Oct 25, 2012)

I've been feeding flake food for Cichlids to my African Cichlids for a while now and was wondering if there is a better option. I've heard of people using gel based foods and others occasionally using cut up earthworms and am wondering what your opinion is. My fish are full grown with the exception of my fry. I also feed tubiflex worms and brine shrimp every once in a while.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I like sinking pellets...less waste in the tank. Which African cichlids do you have?

Earth worms are not aquatic protein...I'd avoid those. Tubiflex are reputed to carry disease/parasites...I'd avoid those. Brine shrimp are OK, but mysis are more nutritious, neither are necessary but won't hurt once/month or so depending on the species.

Use a staple pellet with good quality ingredients like you would be willing to eat and that's all you need!


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## Frank H (Mar 11, 2013)

I had been looking for a thread like this. (the search on this site is less than ideal)

Is there a brand recommended over other brands for Malawi cichlids? Specifically Mbuna.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I feed a quality pellet AND flake, twice a day, no more than they can eat in 1 minute. They are always hungry but never malnourished, and by feeding the flake I allow the smaller/slower ones to also get what they need. This is just what works for me and my fish.

I prefer Omega products, but there are several good ones out there. Many hobbyist swear by New Life Spectrum.

I would also stay away from the earth worms and 'supplementary' feeding. If you are feeding a good quality food, there is no need to take the risk.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There are many good brands for Malawi-Tanganyikans-Victorians (the ones I know). Check out the ingredients on foods sold by the CF sponsors and I would throw New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula and Dainichi on your list as worth being included in the comparison.


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## earled (Jan 3, 2013)

While I don't know a lot about African Cichlids, never kept them, I have been in the fish game for years.

In my opinion the best diet is a varied diet. I feed my Oscars 2 types of pellet, shrimp and tilapia from 
the supermarket, frozen krill, frozen peas, and chopped carrots.

I mean who wants to eat the same thing day in and out.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

earled said:


> While I don't know a lot about African Cichlids, never kept them, I have been in the fish game for years.
> 
> In my opinion the best diet is a varied diet. I feed my Oscars 2 types of pellet, shrimp and tilapia from
> the supermarket, frozen krill, frozen peas, and chopped carrots.
> ...


Oscars are different! You cannot feed African cichlids the same way you feed oscars. :thumb:


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## Baggly (Feb 2, 2012)

I've used NLS 1mm from day one have had zero problems. I tried the 2mm when my fish got bigger but it was just too messy. I suggest buying online at say, amazon, and get he biggest tub you can. It is so much cheaper to buy the 5lb bucket.


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## Frank H (Mar 11, 2013)

Awesome thanks for the suggestions. So if I only have one 55g cichlid tank would you say its beneficial to buy the 5lb tub (2270grams) for less than half of double the price of the 600gram tub? Does it age? spoil?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would not buy the 5lb tub for one tank. Even if the manufacturer claimed it stays fresh, I like to have a new batch at least every six months. the 5lb tub lasts me six months with 7 tanks.

Sometimes club members will buy a 5lb tub and split it.


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## earled (Jan 3, 2013)

cichlidaholic said:


> earled said:
> 
> 
> > While I don't know a lot about African Cichlids, never kept them, I have been in the fish game for years.
> ...


Yeah that's why I added the disclaimer about my experience with Africans. Are they strictly vegetarians?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Africans can be carnivores or herbivores or omnivores. The shrimp, krill, peas and carrots are all included in the pellets, and more as well.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

This is an interesting topic. There is much believed about fish food that isn't true. The source of the essential amino acids is not important. That is why fish (such as Discus) have been successfully raised on beefheart. No wild fish consumes beefheart, but it still works. Earthworms are an excellent food for many fish. It is often stated here and elsewhere, that bloodworms shouldn't be fed because "they are too high in protein" (if I remember correctly they are under 10%). So, we have a food item that is actually low in protein, with lots of roughage, being called "high in protein". At the same time, a highly recommended food for these same fish is indeed high in protein, and that is spirolina, which is in the neighborhood of 60%. Even duckweed can be over 50%, depending on it's growth conditions.
There are a number of factors that dictate how good a fish food actually is. The less undigestable material in the food, the better. The less digestible carbohydrate the better. While analysis numbers look good on the label, the list of ingredients is at least as important. 
I had this conversation last weekend with a rep for a company that has just brought out a new tropical fish food, that he designed. They have been making food for aquaculture for about 80 or more years. This new food, was an improvement over the Koi food they brought out a few years ago, which worked really well for cichlids. They lowered the amount of undigestables, added more Krill and raised the protein content slightly.
I don't have any mbuna right now, but the last one I kept were a trio of P. flavus which where fed nothing but live food for 5 or 6 weeks in the spring when I had it available. The fish had daphnia (mostly), with some bloodworms, and assorted other aquatic gnat larvae in front of them 24/7 for that period. The only result was a noticeable growth spurt. This was my observation, and isn't really scientific, but I would not hesitate doing it with other mbuna, based on this experience. The food in question was (as live food typically is) about 90% water, with a high roughage content (the exoskeletons), and not terribly high in any of the other ingredients we look for in fish food. It made up for these deficiencies by virtue of sheer volume, as it does in nature.


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

I've had a different experience than most with NLS 1mm pellets. While I don't doubt the quality of the food every time I have started feeding it to my mbuna many of them started passing clear stringy feces. While it wasn't an issue of bloat (my fish have never had bloat) it was enough to concern me. I have tried it multiple times with the same results every time.

I prefer Omega One cichlid flakes. The flakes seem better suited to my fish as even the smaller ones get their share. It does break down into some very small pieces, but the fish actively seek them out and make short work of what I give them. They never have had any clear feces on the flakes, and the feces seems much lighter, and breaks up a lot better in the flow meaning not much piles up in the coroner like with the NLS.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Clay is often added to help hold the feces together, so it doesn't break apart and spread around the tank.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

BillD said:


> There is much believed about fish food that isn't true.


Very true!



BillD said:


> The source of the essential amino acids is not important.


That would be a good example for the above statement!

Of course the protein source is important. Why should fish be different in this regard than all other animals, _**** sapiens_ included! In a nutshell, pure vegetarians have a long digestive tract which enables them to cope with hard to process plant protein. That food also tends to contain plenty of fiber. If they eat too much non-plant based food, it upsets their digestive system, and can drastically shorten their life span, although plenty of fiber mixed in with non-plant based food can somewhat diminish the problem. Too much non-plant protein and not enough fiber are the main dietary issues in real life. Theoretically meat eaters being fed too much plant food could be malnourished because their shorter digestive systems doesn't manage to get enough sustenance out of the plant material, but in practice we feed so much, and no current food is so low in protein that this ever becomes an issue.

The natural food of mbuna is Aufwuchs - a mix of algae and small crustaceans, worms, and other tiny critters that live in those algae. As such, mbuna do very well with plant based food. But like all cichlids, mbuna are also opportunistic feeders, meaning if they see a big fat worm or a shrimp, they won't pass it up. And when those famous mosquito swarms that appear like clouds over Lake Malawi come down over mbuna water, I am sure they will have a feast. But this will last only a few days or weeks. In that time the fish might experience a "growth spurt" like the guy in Super Size Me. If you feed them that kind of diet all their life, their life span will probably be reduced in the same way it is for folks who eat mostly fast food. As for food used in aquaculture, there is a rather obvious difference between fish that you want to grow up as quickly as possible and sell as fillets, and ornamental fish that you want to live for a long time.

Last but not least, a word on spirulina. Think of it as the 'green leafy vegetables' your doctor keeps on telling you to eat more of! They might not go crazy over it like they would for blood worms and other life foods, but whenever you feed spirulina, you are doing something good for your fish!


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Again, I will repeat the source of essential amino acids is not important. This has been proven through research. There are of course other factors in what makes a good food, but that statement is true. So, while it is important to have all the essential amino acids available, since they are the very basic building blocks, their source is not important. Spirulina is an extremely high source of protein, and a food very high in spirulina still needs other roughage to balance it out. While the goal in aquaculture may be slightly different to keeping fish as a hobby, the underlying science is true for both. As well large breeding operations for tropicals may use the very same foods used to raise salmon and trout because of the much lower cost.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I WAS surprised years ago when researching foods that spirulina was so high in protein. At the time I was disappointed that the foods did not have more spirulina and I googled to find pure spirulina (I guess humans can take it as a supplement). The protein was through the roof. So...I guessed the food makers knew what they were doing by including some but not making a straight spirulina food.

I thought blood worms were fatty and had some other bad attributes?


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

in asia here, the most popular is hikari.
i always used hikari sinking pallets... they are expensive but good!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

b3w4r3 said:


> I've had a different experience than most with NLS 1mm pellets. While I don't doubt the quality of the food every time I have started feeding it to my mbuna many of them started passing clear stringy feces. While it wasn't an issue of bloat (my fish have never had bloat) it was enough to concern me. I have tried it multiple times with the same results every time.


I had the same problem years ago when trying to introduce NLS. Prior to that, I had been feeding only flake, and had to introduce the pellet very slowly. I have since maintained a diet of pellet and flake in an effort to feed some of the slower eaters well. (My pellet isn't NLS - I use the Omega products - never had a problem with them!)


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

BillD said:


> the source of essential amino acids is not important.


Bill - can you explain what that means? In other words, if we as average fish keepers choose a food for our fish, is this statement in any way helpful for us in making that choice. To me is doesn't seem to be, but perhaps I am missing something?


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Amino acids are the basic building blocks of protein. I don't have all the names of the various types, and I don't think that is essential for the purpose of answering the question. So, when foods, such as protein, are digested, they are broken down to their essential ingredients. These essential ingredients ( amino acids) are used to build protein of the correct type for the organism in question. Where these essential basic forms are sourced from, is not important. You can get these essential amino acids from animal or vegetable matter. Things like soy beans can provide protein, which is a source of these acids as can spirulina, although neither may normally be a type of food eaten by a specific species of fish. This is why beefheart, which seems at first glance to be totally wrong as a fish food actually works very well for a lot of fish. It may not be a cpmplete source of the essential amonos, but must a have a significant amount of the right ones. Manufacturers, look for economical sources of these ingredients, and research done over the years has identified many of these sources. Now when we look at ingredients labels on foods, including human foods, we see a lot of odd things included. Some of these are to fortify the food by providing a missing component ( perhaps more cheaply) or simply to act as a filler. For our purposes, and for aquaculture, the food we look for wants to be complete, in terms of providing all the necessary ingredients for our fish to grow, and prosper, exhibiting the colours and behaviour that interest us. Most of the research that has been done is geared toward aquaculture, by research centers around the globe at universities and agricultural colleges. The basic science is still applicable. Filling a food with lots of undigestible ingredients isn't much use to the grower, and produces a lot of waste. This takes us to the quality of ingredients. There is fish meal, made from waste by product, which is usually the mainstay of most commercial fish foods. Then, you have whole fish meal where the entire fish goes into making the meal. Clearly, the latter is the better product, although it will be more expensive. Same applies to Krill meal. The various vegetable ingredients that find their way into fish food may also be questionable. Some like wheat, usually in the form of flour are there as a binder to hold the food together. Clay is often added to help ensure solid feces that hold together so they can be removed by filtration. On top of that for those of us that keep fish that would appear to be primarily vegetarian in nature, with long digestive tracts, there is a separate requirement to provide enough bulk to allow normal function of that long tract. 
Since fish don't require energy to keep warm, digestible carbohydrates, are not a good thing as they lead to fatty livers if their is too much of it. Older methods of production using steam, apparently rendered carbs undigestible, so it was less of an issue than using newer extrusion methods that don't negate the carbs. It is more important to exclude the carbs in the first place. At present there are growing operations out in the ocean, where Red Snapper are fed a food that is 50% vegetable. The goal is to eventually be able to feed them a diet that is 100% vegetable based to reduce cost and not further tax the oceans limited food supply. the other side of the coin, is that wild fish are a better source of food for humans than farm raised. Salmon is a good example, of wild be far superior to farmed because of the nature of the diet.
None of this is very scientific, and the material is readily available if you want to look for it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Even though a food source has amino acids that are fine...does that mean the food source does not also have other things that are not fine? Too much fat or whatever?


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

DJRansome said:


> Even though a food source has amino acids that are fine...does that mean the food source does not also have other things that are not fine? Too much fat or whatever?


Good question. Indeed, there may be undigestibles present that make that particular source undesirable. What usually happens when non traditional (for lack of a better description) items are used, they will be a processed form, unless the manufacturer is cheaping out totally. If you look at a wild fish's diet, it is unlikely to be as balanced as a prepared diet, since it will vary from day to day. This may be less true for some fish such as mbuna whose diet is probably fairly consistent year round. One would think that fish whose habitat changes greatly at certain times of the year, such as those in the rain forests of South America, or even moreso, in places like Costa Rica where habitats can change almost daily throughout the year, that the diet would vary greatly. One would think that in the long term there is some sort of balance, even if there isn't in the short term.
I do know from feeding vast quantities of daphnia, that while daphnia may not be a great source of food if you look at an analysis, being about 89% water, I do know that you get a major growth spurt in young fish when you keep food in front of them 24/7. Of course maintenance, in the form of water changes, increases due to the increased amount of waste produced. I also have not seen any issues with mbuna fed nothing but live food for 4 to 8 weeks. This would primarily be daphnia but would include blood worms, mosquito larvae, and assorted other gnat larvae. The one thing common to all these foods is the high level of roughage from the exoskeletons of these creature, very high in water content and very high in roughage. Whatever was in the gut of these animals would vary from time to time, including day to day and year to year.
I think the point that fmeuller was trying to make is that high quality foods will have ingredients that are more natural to a fish, such as other fish, and aquatic organisms. I tend to agree that using those ingredients will allow you to assemble a fine food very easily, in terms of nutritional content. The other attributes we look for in a food such as lack of mess, need the addition of some other ingredients. The bottom line is that making a food using only the most costly of ingredients means you will produce an expensive food that perhaps not everyone will buy. The challenge becomes to balance the quality and performance against the cost, so you can stay in business.


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