# Hows this look? 20L shell dweller



## yankz12603 (Mar 2, 2008)

I set this up last night and took these pics this morning. I rinsed 10lbs of the sand for about 10 mins each out of the 20lbs I got. Its all settled and looks good I think. Suggestions, comments, etc are welcome!! Ill be going to Atlantis on saturday to pick up L. Brevis, L. Multi, L. ocellatus, or L. meleagrise. Out of those 4 which should I go with?


----------



## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

L. Multi for me because of their fun to watch colony antics.
Breed up to a massive group (or groups) with lots of interesting colony stuff but few deaths.

I would move your shells into closer patches (maybe add a few for the most fun colony vs colony antics wise, sneaker male wise. new colonies vs old.) etc. :thumb:


----------



## yankz12603 (Mar 2, 2008)

Im new to all of this... so how many fish can I add? I would like 3 of those 4 types. can I do that? Like a pair of each? I figured they would move the shells where they want them, am I wrong?


----------



## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

One shelly would be my choice. You can prob squeeze in two (maybe 3 if you are prepared to work at arranging territories each few days but you kind of get constant conflict). It can work well do not get me wrong but you kind of need a blocking screen (or some sort of territory separator) to separate them so they do not constantly fight over the available shells.

One type is the simplest way to success.


----------



## yankz12603 (Mar 2, 2008)

Ok I think Ill try 2 just for some variety. Have you ever kept any of the other types??


----------



## Twister23 (Jun 1, 2008)

I also have a 20g long with 7 L. Multi and they are doing great  The only issue I have is that my two males fight to be top dog in the tank. So I made two shell beds on each side of the tank with rocks and drift wood in between and now they have formed two groups :dancing: Now I wish that I can get both groups to breed. 
You should go with multies they are fun to watch. you should also add more shells I have about 3 per fish.


----------



## yankz12603 (Mar 2, 2008)

So I should put the shells in groups not dispersed everywhere? I got the shells from the dollar store. Ill get more eventually...


----------



## Twister23 (Jun 1, 2008)

I have my shells in groups in the corners of my tank so they don't have to have a 360 degree defense.


----------



## Linka (Aug 14, 2007)

Congrats with ur aquarium.
I`m in prosess of setting up an 40 g corner myself and it`s exiting.

Very nice shells u got there. What kind are they??

Looking forward to seeing more pictures when the fish gets in there.

Linka


----------



## yankz12603 (Mar 2, 2008)

They are just assorted shells from the dollar store. I got 3 baskets, each are 1lb. Theres only 5 or 6 usable shells in the basket though the rest are regular seashells.

Heres a better pic of the tank. I cant wait to put the fish in! I will keep this updated for sure!


----------



## Linka (Aug 14, 2007)

I must say I like it. Would put some vallisneria in just for color and something living other than the fish. I kinda like some plants.
But other than that I like ur rocks and live the shells.


----------



## yankz12603 (Mar 2, 2008)

Thanks! I would like to put a plant in as well but haven't that researched yet. I need something that will do well in high PH.


----------



## Linka (Aug 14, 2007)

I use vallisnaria and javafern in my malawitank and have had no problems with them. 
Don`t know if tangs eat more plants than mbunas but vallisneria is a fast growing plant that spreads real nice. And u can just cut it down if it grows to high.

I`ll link u some photos

Vallisneria spiralis Tiger

Vallisneria americana gigante

Vallisneria americana "natans"

Javafern

These are norwegian forum sites, but if u scroll down the side on each profile they explain in english also.

Happy hunting.


----------



## Twister23 (Jun 1, 2008)

your plants can be munched on by shellies if you don't keep them well fed.


----------



## yankz12603 (Mar 2, 2008)

Linka - They look nice. Where can I buy these?


----------



## Linka (Aug 14, 2007)

Here we buy them in LFS but if u dont fint anyone where u live I can always send u some. Have a lot u see.

And they grow fast. The javafern u can pin down to a roch and it will grow its roots there. Real nice.


----------



## yankz12603 (Mar 2, 2008)

Ok so if I stick to one species of shellies how many can i put in this tank???


----------



## Linka (Aug 14, 2007)

If u are thinking about the plants its up tu u. What U think is nice. They have kinda thin leafs so they arnt to big.


----------



## yankz12603 (Mar 2, 2008)

Ok i will look around for the plants. I do like the way they look with the thin leaves.

I meant if I stick to one species of shellies how many can I put in this tank???


----------



## Linka (Aug 14, 2007)

Oki. that I really don`t know so much about. I`m still learning myself. 
Hope u get some answers. 
Real interesting setting up a tang tank for the first time. 
Getting my 40 g this sunday and I am soo exited.


----------



## Twister23 (Jun 1, 2008)

I have 7 multies in my 20g long.


----------



## sean151 (Feb 19, 2008)

Most shell dwellers species have very dominant males and I would only recommend getting multies (for your 10 gallon), a pair if they're sexed or 4-6 if not. If they're not just give back the males that don't pair up, if it's not all one sex.
For the guy with the 40 you have enough sq. in. or reality :wink: for any type of shell dweller to start off with and should start with around 6 of the species you choose.


----------



## yankz12603 (Mar 2, 2008)

sean151 said:


> Most shell dwellers species have very dominant males and I would only recommend getting multies (for your 10 gallon), a pair if they're sexed or 4-6 if not. If they're not just give back the males that don't pair up, if it's not all one sex.


I have a 20long


----------



## sean151 (Feb 19, 2008)

Oops sorry read it wrong somehow, usually I check to make sure. The floor space is the same as my 29 and if you get occies you'd have to take out the fry quickly and only be able to have 1-2 males and 4 females. If you get Brevis you could have a few pair. Multies you just end up with a lot more. Lurk around on "shelldwellers.com". You've posted a bit, but lurk around on the species forums for the different ones you're looking into and just reading all 20 pages for each species gave me a lot of insight on what would work for my tank and how many/few I'd be able to have.


----------



## Voodoo Chilli (Jun 29, 2004)

I'd only keep one species in the tank, as cross-breeding can be a real concern.

I'd also suggest the multies: the other species pair off, so you'd be lucky to keep two pairs in the tank. Multies live in colonies, so numbers are only limited to tank space.


----------



## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Voodoo Chilli said:


> I'd only keep one species in the tank, as cross-breeding can be a real concern.
> 
> I'd also suggest the multies: the other species pair off, so you'd be lucky to keep two pairs in the tank. Multies live in colonies, so numbers are only limited to tank space.


Cross breeding in shelldwellers isn't that really big of a concern.


----------



## Voodoo Chilli (Jun 29, 2004)

Darkside said:


> Voodoo Chilli said:
> 
> 
> > I'd only keep one species in the tank, as cross-breeding can be a real concern.
> ...


How do you figure that?


----------



## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

From experience. I've kept almost every species of shell dweller in the lake, many of them together in the same aquarium in one fashion or another and I've never had an instance of crossbreeding. In fact I've kept 2 different geographical variants together in the same aquarium and still no cross breeding. I wouldn't be too concerned over crossbreeding in shellies, half of the time they won't even pair with their own kind.


----------



## Voodoo Chilli (Jun 29, 2004)

A friend of mine kept multies and similis in the same tank-- cross breeding _did_ occur.


----------



## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Voodoo Chilli said:


> A friend of mine kept multies and similis in the same tank-- cross breeding _did_ occur.


Cross breeding can happen with many fish i.e. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... c&&start=0 , its not a real concern with shellies. If it were the Tanganyikan board would be littered with posts about hybrids like the malawi board is. Especially considering that shellies seem to be the most popular topic in this board. I'm not saying it can't happen, but in general it won't. Multies and similis look similar so it doesn't really surprise me that they interbred but the conditions must have been right for this to happen. In fact to my knowledge mutlies and similis aren't that closely related at least according to the latest phylogenetic study, it seems that similis is more primitive than the other shell dwelling fish, the entire genera is set for an overhaul soon. Multies likely won't cross with occies and they won't like cross with caudopunks or Alto "Sumbu". There are some instances of strange hybridization, but that doesn't mean its common and it doesn't mean that one should be overly concerned. How many other people have had an auratus x tropheus. There will always be a greater chance of fish that are more similar in appearance hybridizing, but again if it were common place, you'd really expect to hear more about it.


----------



## JustOneMore22 (Apr 14, 2008)

Most people don't have good success mixing shell dweller species in small tanks (20L is considered small in the cichlid world).

I would choose 1 type and only 1 type. Get another 20 long for a second type. They will fight over territory and your fry could end up eaten by the other species. There just isn't enough space in that size tank, especially to mix less aggressive ones like Multies with something like Occies or Meleagris.

If you mixed any, do Multies and Brevis, but even then, its not guaranteed that they won't kill each other.

In a 20 long, you really only have enough territory space for a trio or maybe a foursome (1m/3f) of Occies or Meleagris. They are pretty aggressive shell dwellers and need alot of territory.

You'd be able to have alot of Multies in there, as long as they are mostly females. They'd reproduce and grow the colony. I have Multies and I enjoy mine.


----------



## yankz12603 (Mar 2, 2008)

I ended up getting a pair of gold occies and a pair of meleagris. I think im going to go back tomorrow and get 1 or 2 more females of each type.


----------



## Crush (Jun 9, 2004)

Darkside said:


> Voodoo Chilli said:
> 
> 
> > A friend of mine kept multies and similis in the same tank-- cross breeding _did_ occur.
> ...


Although darkside makes some great points, there is serious risk of cross-breeding between shellies. Just not between all shellies...

Species that can cross-breed if kept in the same tank:
- L. similis and L. multifasciatus
- L. ocellatus, L. speciosus and L. stappersii
- T. vittatus and T. bifrenatus
- L. brevis and L. calliurus


----------

