# F1 Enantiopus kilesa fry (photo journal)



## Razzo

Just had my first successful spawn from my wild caught Enantiopus kilesa 

Here are a few pics...

Dad









Mom









Stripped on Day 12 from the spawn









Hope you enjoy


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## Razzo

Day 1


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## Razzo

On day three, I noticed the egg sacs were mostly gone and waste in the floating nursery. So, I decided to start feeding.


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## Razzo

Day 4 photos:


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## BioG

Razzo,

Can you take some really bad, maybe out of focus, poorly lit, just really bad pics of your fish so that I can post some pics that won't look awful compared to yours! :lol:

Great! Just Great, like always!


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## londonloco

BioG said:


> Razzo,
> 
> Can you take some really bad, maybe out of focus, poorly lit, just really bad pics of your fish so that I can post some pics that won't look awful compared to yours! :lol:
> 
> Great! Just Great, like always!


Cracking up, x2 on this!!!!!!!


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## Norm66

Wow, nice.


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## Razzo

BioG said:


> Razzo,
> 
> Can you take some really bad, maybe out of focus, poorly lit, just really bad pics of your fish so that I can post some pics that won't look awful compared to yours! :lol:
> 
> Great! Just Great, like always!


Uh, ok  :lol: Thank you for the compliment.


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## Razzo

They started swimming today in the upper water column too (vs quickly scooting on the bottom) 

Enantiopus kilesa fry



























Russ


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## illinois9er

If you want to sell some of those fry just let me know, I live in the next state over.


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## Razzo

illinois9er said:


> If you want to sell some of those fry just let me know, I live in the next state over.


If they go crazy like the callos and calvus have - maybe :wink:

A little soon for those thoughts - for now, I am just enjoying them 

What part of Illinois are you from? I lived most of my life in Chicagoland before moving to Indiana seven years ago.

Russ


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## cjvo2

Awesome picture, thank for sharing


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## illinois9er

Razzo said:


> illinois9er said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to sell some of those fry just let me know, I live in the next state over.
> 
> 
> 
> If they go crazy like the callos and calvus have - maybe :wink:
> 
> A little soon for those thoughts - for now, I am just enjoying them
> 
> What part of Illinois are you from? I lived most of my life in Chicagoland before moving to Indiana seven years ago.
> 
> Russ
Click to expand...

Quincy area, it is west central on the Mississippi.


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## Razzo

illinois9er said:


> Razzo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> illinois9er said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to sell some of those fry just let me know, I live in the next state over.
> 
> 
> 
> If they go crazy like the callos and calvus have - maybe :wink:
> 
> A little soon for those thoughts - for now, I am just enjoying them
> 
> What part of Illinois are you from? I lived most of my life in Chicagoland before moving to Indiana seven years ago.
> 
> Russ
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quincy area, it is west central on the Mississippi.
Click to expand...

Been there, many times. My dad was in the Veterans Home there.


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## punman

Congratulations. I have been breeding this fish for over a year. Sometimes the female holds well for me, at times not.


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## Mr Mbuna

Congrats Razzo and thanks for sharing.
My male is building castles and flaring nicely at the females who are slowly fattening up after their import (they were a bit skinny) so I hope to have fry of my own before the summers out. 
Did your male select just one female to bond with or is he promiscuous?


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## Razzo

Mr Mbuna said:


> Congrats Razzo and thanks for sharing.
> My male is building castles and flaring nicely at the females who are slowly fattening up after their import (they were a bit skinny) so I hope to have fry of my own before the summers out.
> Did your male select just one female to bond with or is he promiscuous?


My largest male started displaying first but none of the females wanted to spawn with him. Then, after some time, my 2nd largest male seized the opportunity and started displaying. I think he'll spawn with any female that is willing. I think his jo is to entice the females into coming into season. He has spawned with two females already. The first female didn't hold well - she couldn't resist the urge to eat. This second female did perfect.

Best wishes on getting some fry over there.

Russ


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## illinois9er

Razzo said:


> illinois9er said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Razzo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> illinois9er said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to sell some of those fry just let me know, I live in the next state over.
> 
> 
> 
> If they go crazy like the callos and calvus have - maybe :wink:
> 
> A little soon for those thoughts - for now, I am just enjoying them
> 
> What part of Illinois are you from? I lived most of my life in Chicagoland before moving to Indiana seven years ago.
> 
> Russ
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quincy area, it is west central on the Mississippi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Been there, many times. My dad was in the Veterans Home there.
Click to expand...

Very nice, I live about 20 minutes out in a small town.


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## Razzo

Enantiopus kilesa


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## pharrix

Nice fish and fry.


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## noddy

Congrats on the spawn Razzo. I have a female holding now for the first time since I put them in the tank. I see your photo of them free swimming on day 4, is that 4 days after stripping? So 16 days from spawning to free swimming? I'm not very confident of her holding to term but, if she's still holding after 10 days or so I will strip her. Would you suggest I wait 12 days? Or do you think I could strip a little early? I definately don't want to tumble. P.S great photos as usual.


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## Razzo

noddy said:


> Congrats on the spawn Razzo. I have a female holding now for the first time since I put them in the tank. I see your photo of them free swimming on day 4, is that 4 days after stripping? So 16 days from spawning to free swimming? I'm not very confident of her holding to term but, if she's still holding after 10 days or so I will strip her. Would you suggest I wait 12 days? Or do you think I could strip a little early? I definately don't want to tumble. P.S great photos as usual.


Congrats!

That is day four after stripping. I plan to strip next time on day 14 after the spawn.

Hope that helps.

Russ


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## Razzo




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## Razzo

Few more pics of the father, he was showing of for some pics


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## noddy

Razzo said:


> noddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on the spawn Razzo. I have a female holding now for the first time since I put them in the tank. I see your photo of them free swimming on day 4, is that 4 days after stripping? So 16 days from spawning to free swimming? I'm not very confident of her holding to term but, if she's still holding after 10 days or so I will strip her. Would you suggest I wait 12 days? Or do you think I could strip a little early? I definately don't want to tumble. P.S great photos as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats!
> 
> That is day four after stripping. I plan to strip next time on day 14 after the spawn.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> Russ
Click to expand...

That's a big help Russ, thanks bud. Oh, and again, great pics.


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## Razzo

Hey guys, all are doing well  Here is a photo update:



















My guess is that the males are the one's starting to develop the blue highlights on the dorsal fins









Moved them from the floating nursery in the 72-gallon tank to their own 2.5 gallon fry tank. 
Below is the 2.5 gallon tank being painted black. I wanted to try this for photography purposes.









The new tank (CaribSea Bahamas Oolite and a few shells for effect):



























Russ


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## Kerricko

Great photos Razzo thanks for sharing.


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## Mr Mbuna

Looking good Russ and a really useful set of pics. I have a female holding now. Think its about 7 days so will strip her towards the end of the week as she is looking a little wasted. Doesn't look like a large brood but she is holding well and resisting food.
What did you feed yours on at first?


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## Razzo

Mr Mbuna said:


> Looking good Russ and a really useful set of pics. I have a female holding now. Think its about 7 days so will strip her towards the end of the week as she is looking a little wasted. Doesn't look like a large brood but she is holding well and resisting food.
> What did you feed yours on at first?


Congrats!

I feed them ground up/chopped up FD krill fines & FD plankton.

Russ


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## Razzo

Update...


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## SAMhap

do i get some of those too??? lol

amazing man it took me 1 full year before my kilesa spawned :lol: . nice :thumb:


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## Cooder

opcorn:

I am definately getting some of these when i get a 6x2x2, hard to find in Oz though, not to mention expensive. (they are well worth it though!!) These are just spectacular fish and awesome photos mate. =D> =D>

Just breathtaking colour on melanogenys, one of my favourite looking tangs. They would have to be one of the few truly beautiful and colourful Tangs, IMO, excusing most other sandsifters, featherfins and cyps. (im partial to tangs, but its true that not many are that breathtakingly beautiful)

Great work! goodluck with future spawns, because we need these to stay in the aquarium world.


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## Razzo

SAMhap said:


> do i get some of those too??? lol
> 
> amazing man it took me 1 full year before my kilesa spawned :lol: . nice :thumb:


Congrats! Does every spawn produce fry?


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## Razzo

Cooder said:


> Great work! goodluck with future spawns, because we need these to stay in the aquarium world.


Thanks Cooder 

Yes, they are expensive and I agree, well worth it! Mine are wilds and they set me back a pretty penny. We just don't get wild kilesa in any more - I had a unique opportunity to get them from a freind's personal collection and so I jumped!

I seen a list somewhere; where, they are in the top six of most saught after cichlids.

You just don't see many F1 kilesa fry in the states - I hope to help change that (part of the reason I chose to spend the big bucks for the wilds.

I have another female holding for about a week now - should be a good spawn when they make it to a week without swallowing. Lord willing 

Cheers,
Russ


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## Razzo

The first batch of F1 Enantiopus kilesa fry are doing very well. Here is a video from tonight. They are about 2.5 months old. Hope you like the videos...

Fry





Wild parents





Russ


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## SAMhap

sweet, nice :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: , willing to sell any fry?


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## Razzo

SAMhap said:


> sweet, nice :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: , willing to sell any fry?


Thank you and yes.

Russ


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## Razzo

Been working 7 days a week for the past couple months and I have not been paying as much attention to my fish. I need to take some new pics of my kilesa fry. They grow so fast compared to my calvus fry.

Group 1 (sire: little dude) are getting big! They range from between 1.5" to 2" and seem to be getting bigger every day.

Group 2 (sire: big daddy) are almost an 1"

I have been too busy to think about selling them. I must confess, that I have been tempted, as of late, to keep them and grow them out. Both F1 fry groups have completely different mom and dad so they are completely, Genetically Diverse (GD) - that's assuming their wild caught parents are not siblings (impossibility to know with 100% certainty). So, it is highly probable that they are GD; so, please forgive me for making that assumption. With that disclaimer out of the way, I was thinking about growing them out and making 2 or 3 GD breeding groups (combining males from one group with female from the other group and visa-versa).

I've got Group 1 in a tank setup for photography - I'll start shooting them again and post some new pics.

Russ


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## Mr Mbuna

I added 14 wc cyprichromis Utinta to my kilesa tank - no more spawns since, whereas they were rampant before, so perhaps best kept alone.


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## dsm1268

Thanks for sharing these awesome pics! One curious question: What kind of camera do you use? Thanks again


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## Razzo

dsm1268 said:


> Thanks for sharing these awesome pics! One curious question: What kind of camera do you use? Thanks again


Thanks dsm 

I shoot with a Canon EOS Rebel T2i with a 18-55mm IS lens. I have been extremely pleased with it, I took some more pics last night of Group 1. Think I have some good ones - I'll download them tonight.

Mr. Mbuna, so, are you gonna pull the cyps?

Russ


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## londonloco

Waiting to see da pics so I can kick myself.... :x


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## Razzo

londonloco said:


> Waiting to see da pics so I can kick myself.... :x


Here's one, start kicking


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## londonloco




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## love-my-fish

Razzo,,, congrats on the spawning of the fry and i just wanted to comment that the pics and video are awesome.....

If only you could get some of those to us up here in Ontario...


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## noddy

Hey Russ, the kilesa seem to be doing very well for you, what is your secret? Out of the 27 fry my female produced, I have ended up with three survivors and a dead female. My last female is holding again, so I have a couple of questions if you don't mind. 
First off, where do you find the small tank that you hang in the main tank? And how do you heat the small 2 1/2 g (I think it was) tank? Also, did you strip the females and then put them straight back into the main tank?
Thanks bud.


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## Razzo

noddy said:


> Hey Russ, the kilesa seem to be doing very well for you, what is your secret? Out of the 27 fry my female produced, I have ended up with three survivors and a dead female. My last female is holding again, so I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.
> First off, where do you find the small tank that you hang in the main tank? And how do you heat the small 2 1/2 g (I think it was) tank? Also, did you strip the females and then put them straight back into the main tank?
> Thanks bud.


My latest batch was about 33 fry and I managed to keep about 27 of them alive. My biggest hazard is securing the top of the tank - they are jumpers. If it wasn't for that, I'd be close to 100%. I strip at 14 days and put them in the floating basket for a couple weeks. The floating basket is always on the shell in my LFS. The heater in the 2.5 gallon is Marineland's smallest. Can't adjust it. Keeps a 2.5 gallon tank at 82 degrees.

Female goes back in the main tank immediately after stripping.

Hope that helps. If you have anymore questions, shoot me a PM and maybe we can hook up on the telephone.

Best wishes,
Russ


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## noddy

Thanks Russ, Hopefully with your advise, I'll have better luck this time.


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## Mr Mbuna

Razzo said:


> Mr. Mbuna, so, are you gonna pull the cyps?
> 
> Russ


Well I've pulled the Kilesa instead. Took the sub dominant male and the 2 females out into another 6' with some young fronts (3") and then added the dominant male after 2-3 weeks. The Beta is now the Alpha and there are nests being built so looks like spawning activity will soon be resumed, hopefully with new blood. 
On another note, I added some 1cm cyp fry to my tank of juvi kilesas (biggest 3cm) the other day and after 8 hours, 14 of the cyps had been eaten which really suprised me - I hadn't put them down as fry predators, especially when the size difference was not that huge. You live and learn.


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## olliesshop

Absolutely beautiful fish and great photos and videos thanks !!! :dancing:


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## Razzo

Update: my F1 Enantiopus kilesa fry groups are doing well 

I took a few more pics of Group A (the group that I have been chronicling their development in this thread). In my first image of them in this thread, they were newly stripped fry (at Day 1 of life outside of mom's mouth on 6/22/11). These next few pics are of the same fish, nearly five months later, on 11/29/11. They are all approaching 2-inches in length and I am making plans to move them, from the 10-gallon tank, into a 30 gallon long tank and combining them with Group B.

Thanks for coming along on the journey. Here is Group A on 11/29/11

*F1 Enantiopus kilesa (Group A)*




































Here is a shot of Group B (also in a 10-gallon tank)
*F1 Enantiopus kilesa (Group B)*









Thanks,
Russ


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## TheBreeve

Good grief Russ, I can't believe how good your photos are, especially the fry! Why can't I get those results with my Nikon! Probably operator error...


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## Razzo

TheBreeve said:


> Good grief Russ, I can't believe how good your photos are, especially the fry! Why can't I get those results with my Nikon! Probably operator error...


Hey neighbor! You probably need a real camera,... a Canon 

Sorry, couldn't resist :lol:

Is this Jeff?

Russ


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## TheBreeve

Yes, it is Jeff.


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## Razzo

TheBreeve said:


> Yes, it is Jeff.


You and Sean should come over during Christmas break and I'll show you a couple tips that help me.

CYL,
Russ


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## des

Hey *Razzo*, I have a Canon. :thumb: Perhaps you could send me a dozen of those beauties here in Ontario and I could take some nice photos of them too. I promise I won't give them back! :lol: Nice photo work and awesome group of F1s you have there.


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## Razzo

des said:


> Hey *Razzo*, I have a Canon. :thumb: Perhaps you could send me a dozen of those beauties here in Ontario and I could take some nice photos of them too. I promise I won't give them back! :lol: Nice photo work and awesome group of F1s you have there.


Hey Des,

Both the F1 fry and their wild caught parents are for sale; however, exporting to another country is something that I have not done before 

Russ


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## skurj

hmm south bend and back to toronto could be done in a day.... keepin the fish alive for the 7 hr drive home though...

What do they make for battery powered heaters?


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## TheBreeve

I can't believe your selling the Kilesa Russ.


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## Razzo

skurj said:


> hmm south bend and back to toronto could be done in a day.... keepin the fish alive for the 7 hr drive home though...
> 
> What do they make for battery powered heaters?


That's easy - I could set them up as a routine shipment that is good for 36+ hours.

We could take in a hockey game at Notre Dame 

Russ


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## Razzo

TheBreeve said:


> I can't believe your selling the Kilesa Russ.


I think so Jeff - I have other plans :lol:


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## growpower

What types are you looking to replace your Kelesa with? I would be interested in your wild group or a dozen fry or both if other arrangements have not been made. Offline I am at [email protected]


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## Razzo

I have not taken photos of the kilesa fry lately (I probably should call them juvies by now). The largest group are approximately 2" and the rest of them probably 1.5". I shipped a group of them to their new home this week so I thought I would get some pics before the shipment. Kilesa fry are always so eager to meet you at the tank - I had second thoughts on selling some of them while photographing them. Those kinds of thoughts lead you to dozens of tanks which I can't handle 

This series of photos was of them when I first turned the tank lights on. They were all resting still on the bottom and they had their camouflage coloring on. Here is a few photos 

*F1 Enantiopus kilesa*


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## Razzo

A few more of them awake


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## Razzo

Here is a couple of the dominant male displaying


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## Razzo

A sample of the pit and sand castles that the male makes when he is displaying...









It took a while to teach him how to place the blue and red dots on the piles :wink:









You can get an idea from this pic just how big some of the sand castles really are.


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## mel_cp6

That's just awesome when they do that. It's very interesting when they plow it just rebuild it again later. How big are the **** when theyre born btw? 
I think One of my female is holding right now and 2 of my wild cypho Moba have their tubes down too.


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## Razzo

mel_cp6 said:


> That's just awesome when they do that. It's very interesting when they plow it just rebuild it again later. How big are the fry when theyre born btw?
> I think One of my female is holding right now and 2 of my wild cypho Moba have their tubes down too.


About 1/4" mel maybe smaller.

Russ


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## Razzo

It has been a while. I have kinda ignored these fry (photographically that is). I was shocked to see some of them reaching the 3" mark. One little dude is even coloring up, digging a pit, and displaying. That's crazy! Would not have guessed that at 3"

I haven't nailed my camera setting yet for this tank - I'll work on that over the next week before I ship these guys off to their new home. Here's a few pics, hope you like 

Coloring up at three inches  









Digging his pitt  









Displaying  









Few other pics


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## Razzo

A pic of the parents. I promised myself a couple weeks ago that I would not save anymore fry from any of my tanks. The wild kilesa spawned again and the female has now been holding five days (seems like she may hold to term). If she does, this will be my last group of fry that I will raise - promise :lol:

The holding female is bottom right


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## mel_cp6

As always, great pics. 
Will you be keeping some of the juvies for yourself?


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## Razzo

mel_cp6 said:


> As always, great pics.
> Will you be keeping some of the juvies for yourself?


Thanks 

Hel mel, nope, the remaining 22 of them are sold and I will be shipping them out, probably, sometime next week. If this holding female gives me some more fry, I'll hang on to those for a while. It's hard for me with so many tanks. I love all the fish but I just can't keep doing this.

It looks like I may have a buyer for the wild kilesa - that is the reason I am gonna save this new group of fry (if I am so blessed to have her hold to term). They will not be much of a burdeon for a couple months.

Russ


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## Razzo

Day 12 of holding for my wild kilesa mom. She is doing great. Got a few pics of her just after turning the tank lights on....


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## PTrops

You take great pics.

Great looking fish :thumb:


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## Razzo

PTrops said:


> You take great pics.
> 
> Great looking fish :thumb:


Thanks 

I successfully striped fry today - I'll count later (I am guessing at least twenty). Right now, I have all the lights off trying to let the mother recover. In a few hours, I will turn all the lights on and try to feed her. The plan is to feed her for a few days in the 10 gallon nursery tank to get her strength back and then put her back with the main group.

Russ


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## Razzo

She is eating good. Looks to be close to 30 fry. I'll take a photo and get an actual count tomorrow.

Russ


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## Razzo

Mom fed great again today so I put her back in the general population with the rest of the wild kilesa. I took a photo of the fry which I then zoom in with Paint Shop Pro and do a count. I even put a colored dot on each one that has already been counted. LOL - it's about the only way I have figured out how to get a good count. This kilesa mom gave me 33 fry this time  It always amazes me because they just don't look like they are brooding that many. Below is a pic of the new fry group with a few details:

4/01/12 - Spawning took place.
4/15/12 - Day 14 Stripped Fry
4/16/12 - QTY 33 F1 Enantiopus Kilesa fry 

This will, in all likelyhood, be my last bacth of kilesa fry. I keep threatening to get out of the breeding business and I am getting closer to that goal. A few weeks ago I was running 8 tanks and today I am down to 5. This week my last group of 22 F1 kilesa juvies should ship out to their new home. My wild kilesa have been for sale and I don't think it will be long before I move them.

LOL, I already have a waiting list started for these new kilesa fry. I've got a few months to decide if I want to keep any for myself. Oh well, here's that pic...


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## mel_cp6

What do you feed the ****? Mine don't seem to eat .5mm nls. 
How often does the female spawn btw?


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## Razzo

Just noticed tonight that one of the males from the latest batch of kilesa fry (which was stripped on 4/15/12) has started digging a pit and building his sand castles  So, that is about 5 months. Never paid much attention to size and age when I first noticed that behavior.

They are about 1.50 to 1.75" long.

Russ


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## Backdrifts

Your pictures are amazing, can i ask what kind of sand it is that you use in your tank?


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## Razzo

Thanks. The sand is CaribSea Aragamax Sand / Bahamas Oolite.

Russ


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## [email protected]@n

2 of the males I got from Russ are digging pits and flashing some color.


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## [email protected]@n

And one more


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## Razzo

BUMP: there seems to be a lot of interest in kilesa on the forum lately and a lot of questions. Thought I would bump this thread.

Also, [email protected]@n, I would love to see some more photo updates :wink:


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## SmellinFishy

Great thread Razzo! Both your fish and photography are top notch. Sad to hear your getting out of the breeding hobby..


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## Super Turtleman

Very nice thread. A friend has some Kilesa and I loved them the second I laid eyes on them. Thinking of setting some up in a standard 55G. Do you think they would do well with a group of P. Nigripinnis? Just thinking what they could be kept with.


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## 24Tropheus

Razzo said:


> BUMP: there seems to be a lot of interest in kilesa on the forum lately and a lot of questions. Thought I would bump this thread.
> 
> Also, [email protected]@n, I would love to see some more photo updates :wink:


Thanks for that. Yep lots of good info here. :thumb:


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## Razzo

I am bumping this thread due to some recent questions.

Cheers,
Russ


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