# My Blue Rams (Mikrogeophagus.ramirezi)



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum but not the hobby. Kept a wide range of fish in the past 12 years, from community to predators and odd balls. Up until recently, I primary focused on predatory and monster fish, but I've decided to get back into the cichlid world (Specifically South Americans). My experience with cichlids revolved around angels, some Apisto Sp., discus, and Lake Tanganyika cichlids.
The fish I'm currently keeping include:

2 -Betta.macrostoma (both males, lost my female recently) - story for another thread

3 -blue whale/shark catfish (Cetopsis.coecutiens)

11 -Nothobranchius.rachovii 98 killifish fry (1 week old)

and

5 rams (2 "German" blue ram pairs, and 1 female electric blue)
1 pair happens to be the main topic of this thread, so with further ado -

While at my LAS/LFS on Monday, I happen to come across a male blue ram which I thought was quite nice. Bought the little bugger, as I thought he'd also be a good match for my one of my lone females. Acclimated him to my 20 gallon breeder (which is currently housing my female GBR and female EBR). Trying to grow some clippings from my main tank as well (Java fern, and narrow leaf ludwigia)

Immediately after introducing him to my tank, the 3 fish began a flirt-fest and the new male paired off with my female GBR. Fast forward to Tuesday morning, The pair had cleaned off a piece of black slate, and the male dug a pit near by. The female's egg tube in starting to extend, and she's beginning to get plump.
Happened to snap a few quick shots with my phone. I apologize for the poor quality, bad lighting and algae growing on my tank walls (camera couldn't focus). I will get better pics, once I've done some maintenance on the tank and relocate the lone female EBR. Pics really don't do justice for the pair, the colours and finnage on the male are really stunning in person. Love how high the male's dorsal ray extends, can kinda see it in picture #2 & 3.


















































































Looking forward to speaking and learning from the community. Will keep every updated on the pair's progress.


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Small update-

Occasionally I'll see the pair in the pit side by side fluttering (like they're having full body spasms). No eggs yet though.
Good news is the female is getting plumper, and her egg tube is becoming more pronounced. 
Will keep everyone posted.


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Quick update with some awesome news!
The ram pair just started laying eggs on the piece of slate in their tank. 
These are some early shots, the pair is still laying and fertilizing. Eggs looking good so far, hope everything goes well (The waiting game begins).


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Can see eyes and spines slowly developing. :thumb: 
Keep you guys posted.


----------



## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

just curious, what do you keep your tank parameters at? temp, ph, etc. I've literally had 0 luck keeping rams alive more than 2-3 weeks, and all the other fish in my tank seem fine....i've almost given up on trying to keep them at all now...


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

LXXero said:


> just curious, what do you keep your tank parameters at? temp, ph, etc. I've literally had 0 luck keeping rams alive more than 2-3 weeks, and all the other fish in my tank seem fine....i've almost given up on trying to keep them at all now...


2-3 weeks? That's quite unfortunate, where do you get your rams from (If the store told you) and what do the tank conditions look like at the store? Always important to know where you're fish are from. I heard of incidents like this, but they were rams from Asian fish farms being fed hormones to boost colour, but in turn this weakens them drastically and makes them infertile. Some stories along the lines of sudden death or DND (dead next day).

Never really had any issues with acclimating rams or other sensitive fish here before, even wild caught angels. I use Indian almond leaves in my tank, and keep the temp high (30-32 degrees celsius). I'll try to readings for my tank params as soon as possible.


----------



## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

well, the electric blue ones i think probably were asian bred ones, singapore i'm thinking? and that's already a inbred-species since it's not a wild species....they clearly had red worms inside of them and it was seemingly too late for me to do anything, i got those from my main LFS.

this next one just died on me today, I tried, i got from a different LFS, i'm not sure where it came from, but they looked like normal rams, not any special variety, basically like the ones in your photos.

oddly enough petsmart had some of the better looking rams i've seen, as much as i don't like petsmart it's tempting to try rams from them....i haven't had too much bad luck with their fish to be honest, it's my smaller LFS that seem to get me diseased fish most of the time lol.

your temperature seems way higher than i kept it...i have a bunch of other fish so i didn't wanna put the temp too high i usually keep it at like 78-79f? that'd be like 26c....


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

LXXero said:


> well, the electric blue ones i think probably were asian bred ones, singapore i'm thinking? and that's already a inbred-species since it's not a wild species....they clearly had red worms inside of them and it was seemingly too late for me to do anything, i got those from my main LFS.
> 
> this next one just died on me today, I tried, i got from a different LFS, i'm not sure where it came from, but they looked like normal rams, not any special variety, basically like the ones in your photos.
> 
> ...


Sorry about your losses, that definitely explains the casualties you've been having recently. If your Petsmart really does carry better looking (body shape, finnage, active) rams, I would get a best looking pair or pairs and put them in a QT. Prazi Pro works great for internal as well as a few external parasites. Used the stuff for my old puffers and any wild caught fish I order. Prazi Pro in combination with Metro works wonders, at least for me it does.

Putting the hormone injections aside, it really comes down to genetics. When out looking for rams, I stay away from stores that get them from Asia. I either go for locally bred, European imports (Germany), and or wild caught (definitely a lot more sensitive to water params, than the commercial grade blue rams).

I generally notice my rams to better in warmer temps (84f/28c - 89f/32c), in addition to soft and acidic tannin leeched water, as well as a bit of aquarium salt (using the API brand). I keep my rams in a species tank or as pairs in breeding tanks.


----------



## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

I actually tried prazipro on those electric blues, sadly it was too late (the fish turned pale and you could literally SEE 5-6 worms through the body of the fish, it was kind of crazy, they weren't even in the digestive tract, they were in the muscle of the fish, no one had ever seen anything like it....i think the damage was just too extensive, here's an old picture, it died probably 2-3 days later http://www.xero.cc/spots1.jpg )

after reading more about german rams vs bolivian rams, i decided maybe bolivians would be a better choice given my water temperature and the fact they're supposed to be hardier. Of course I asked petsmart and the lady there said that they keep all the tanks at 78f except for goldfish....and that includes the rams, go figure. So i mean, who knows? Maybe some of these are bred hardier than others...My rummy nose tetras might be OK with that 84f but i think my other fish, not so much...

Sure enough, petsmart was actually out of blue rams, but they had bolivians! Only 2, and best i could tell both males, so I just picked one for now. They didn't look half bad, time will tell I guess....I hope i have better luck with this one.


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Whoa man, only time I seen worms that bad were when I had an infected puffer. The worms would be coiled under the skin, and you'd see them move around.

Bolivians are great too, better parents compared to GBRs. Wish you luck with your new ram, keep us posted if you run into any issues or have any concerns


----------



## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

yeah after the prazipro - those "spots" started to uncurl, and it became clear that they were worms. Before the prazipro, i wasn't sure what it was. I actually have pictures of the "uncurled" worms on my phone somewhere but i never uploaded them. i have a feeling that much penetration into the body of the fish meant the fishes body just had no way to get rid of dead worms inside the fish, even if the prazipro did it's job, now the fish has dead decaying worms inside it's body? it was just too far gone...

i still have no idea what kind of worms those were exactly. It didn't seem like it was causing bloating or anything. I did have a dwarf gourami that bloated up and died shortly after those rams died, but my other gourami is fine and was in a tank with the other ram (that also died from presumably the same parasite in that picture)

i have no idea what killed my regular GBR today either, but the only guess I have is maybe it didn't like the lower temperature I was keeping them at, and maybe it possibly had some kind of finrot from before I got it. I really hope this bolivian fairs better. When I see pictures like yours, that's what makes me want to keep trying, but I hate to feel like i'm killing all these fish, maybe it's not me though, maybe it's just bad suppliers?? I guess time will tell with this bolivian...

Now that i looked up how to sex bolivians, now i'm wondering if the other one they had was a male, and it was an actual pair in there...I actually liked this one better because the face was a smooth curve and didn't like the "bumpy head" one...haha of course i think that means i may have picked the female, now i'm wondering if the bumpy head one was the male. I may go back tomorrow and see if it's still there just to see....if i end up with 2 males or something i could always rehome it to my 29g tank upstairs....


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Forgot to post about these guys, but these two were my old local bred pair.

Male



















Male and Female


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Hmmm...Kinda have a dilemma on my hands.

I'm planning to sell my younger bonded pair of rams tomorrow afternoon (not the pair in this thread), and just discovered that they've bred (laid eggs on a piece of Indian almond leaf I have in the tank). Turned off the lights for the day and locked the door, to ensure no one goes into the room to disturb them.

The buyer is really interested in the pair, and we've ready planned meet tomorrow. Thinking about asking the current buyer if he's willing to hold off for a while (to see if the eggs hatch and the parents raise the fry), or continue with the sale and artificially raise the eggs/fry myself.
Any suggestions?

On other news, back to the pair in this thread:
They are starting to clean off the slate rock in my tank again, and the male is beginning to dig new pits. Will make sure to give them their privacy this time around.


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

The second pair's eggs ended up growing fungus. The pair began to bicker against eachother when guarding the nest. Not really taking turns, but fighting for it. The eggs ended up not getting fanned enough and went bad. Pretty sad to see how the female behavior changed, once she realized the eggs went bad and watched the male dispose of them.
The female only just reached maturity, and it was both they first time spawning, so they probably didn't have enough experience. Hopefully the learn to spawn successfully for the buyer.

Back to my main pair. They spawned again, and this time with a little bit more eggs. Threw a towel over the tank before they spawned to give them some privacy and a sense of security. Peaked in just to feed them, and noticed the male has taken on the role of fanning and guarding the nest more seriously. Even when they swapped places, the male kept near the nest and ignored some of the pellets left by my female.
Will update you guys, if things go better with these eggs. Hopefully the female feels more comfortable this time around, and doesn't decide to eat the eggs.


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Peaked at the nest today when I fed my pair, and noticed all the eggs are still there 
Reach the 24 hour mark, fingers crossed.


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Went to feed the pair this morning and noticed all the eggs were gone...

What I saw instead was the male guarding a clusters of wigglers in the pit he dug at the back of their tank  
Not exactly sure how many there were, but my initial count of their nest was about 180-200. Will continue to give the pair their privacy and see if they can raise the fry to free swimmers. They seem to have gotten switching shifts down pretty well.
Keep you guys updated.


----------



## Aquariguns (Jan 15, 2015)

good luck, very frustrating!


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Missed an update:

*August.4th,2016 - 10:34am*

Went to feed the pair this morning and noticed all the eggs were gone...

What I saw instead was the male guarding a clusters of wigglers in the pit he dug at the back of their tank  
Not exactly sure how many there were, but my initial count of their nest was about 180-200.
Will continue to give the pair their privacy and see if they can raise the fry to free swimmers
They seem to have gotten switching shifts down pretty well.
Keep you guys updated.

*August.5th,2016 - 8:35am*

Checked up on the pair and their fry earlier this morning, while I was feeding them, and things are progressing quite well. The cluster hasn't decreased in size, so I guess the parents (primarily the mom) hasn't been snacking on their babies. The parents really seem to be getting good at caring for their fry, surprised and happy that it took them 2 attempts (fingers crossed that they continue getting better)

The wigglers are becoming more active, startling to roll and bounce a little :dancing: . 3 more days until they start free swimming, or so I hope.

As always, I keep everyone posted


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Another morning update: The fry are starting to jump/wiggle around a lot more, and the parents have relocated them to a larger/wider pit they dug. The pit also happens to be directly under my java fern. Guess the roots will help serve as shelter and security.

Will update everyone again tomorrow morning


----------



## Aquariguns (Jan 15, 2015)

glad to hear it is progressing. Keep the updates coming!


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

:fish:


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Just got home and checked up on the pair and their fry, and saw all the fry free swimming 
Some are already nipping at the plants I have in the tank, but I put some microworms in to get them going.
Will keep everyone posted.


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Fed and checked on the parents and their fry this morning, and things are going very well. The fry are all feeding (starting to see their bellies turn white from the microworms, and poop trails behind them haha), and becoming more independent (went from a cloud that followed the parents, to swimming across the length and height of the tank).

Was hesitant about doing a water change yesterday, because the sensitivity of the fry, but using a drip line to top off the tank worked out. Took about 3-4 hours to complete.

Will update again later this evening.


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Fed and checked on the rams just a moment ago, and some of the fry are beginning to starting to wonder around the tank (hiding in and nipping at my cabomba.carolinia and Myriophyllum.scabratum).
The parents seem to have a hard time trying to keep their school of fry together. Once a group of fry leave the school, the parents chase after them to bring them back, but as soon as they do, they have to go catch the ones they left behind haha.
On another note, the fry seem to have doubled in size compared to yesterday


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Some quick and low quality shots, but you can see the some of the fry 
There's a lot more than the pictures actually show


----------



## Aquariguns (Jan 15, 2015)

Thats awesome, cool to see them free swimming!


----------



## Ram-Finatic (Jul 27, 2016)

Well looks like my fry have become bored of feeding on microworms. Tried feeding them today and they completely ignored them. They seem more interested in nipping at my plants and the surface of my substrate.
Decided to make powdered fry food by finely grinding Northfin Krill Gold 1mm pellets. The fry seem eager to eat the stuff, but it sinks too fast, and the fry aren't big enough to take baby brineshrimp yet.


----------



## Aquariguns (Jan 15, 2015)

Might be worth a shot to go with a flake food for a bit untill they get some more size. The flake definitely spends a lot more time floating around. Also any thought to moving them to a separate growout tank


----------



## trollini (Aug 13, 2016)

It looks like you were having a good time, how are they atm, any news? :thumb: 
peliculas por mega

Greetings


----------



## meghanbridget33 (Aug 21, 2016)

Ram-Finatic said:


> The second pair's eggs ended up growing fungus. The pair began to bicker against eachother when guarding the nest. Not really taking turns, but fighting for it. The eggs ended up not getting fanned enough and went bad. Pretty sad to see how the female behavior changed, once she realized the eggs went bad and watched the male dispose of them.
> The female only just reached maturity, and it was both they first time spawning, so they probably didn't have enough experience. Hopefully the learn to spawn successfully for the buyer.
> 
> Back to my main pair. They spawned again, and this time with a little bit more eggs. Threw a towel over the tank before they spawned to give them some privacy and a sense of security. Peaked in just to feed them, and noticed the male has taken on the role of fanning and guarding the nest more seriously. Even when they swapped places, the male kept near the nest and ignored some of the pellets left by my female.
> Will update you guys, if things go better with these eggs. Hopefully the female feels more comfortable this time around, and doesn't decide to eat the eggs.


That is what happened with my kribensis cichlids, there first batch of eggs, the female laid eggs and tried so bad too get the male to go in the cave. Then he just ate them. I felt like she was sad too. I didn't even know they tried again and I came home from work too feed them and I saw little wrigglers!


----------

