# I think the bloat I treated with Metro is still there



## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

It started a week ago, I noticed my tropheus Bemba was acting odd. He was swimming erratically and wouldn't eat. Then he hid in a cave and other fish were picking on him. He ended up near the top of the tank looking awful. I did some research and came to the conclusion it was bloat. I also noticed another fish had stringy white poo even though he was acting normally. I went to my local pet store and bought API general cure because it was the only thing I could find there with metro in it (250 mg per pack) it also has 75 mg praziquantel in it. In any case, I used 5 packs the first day, waited a day then added 5 more packs as per instructions on the box. I also took out the charcoal filter before treatment. Today, day 4 I did a partial water change. My tropheus looks better and is acting like himself again but I just noticed a different tropheus had white stringy poo now but everyone is acting normal, knock on wood...Anyway my question is this- should I go buy some clout and treat the tank? Is this safe after using metro? Or should I treat with the API again because of the presence of the dreaded white strigy poo? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

With 5 packets per day I'm assuming it's a 55g?
I'd likely do another round of API if you can. 5-10 days of treatment is generally recommended. 
Perform another 30-40% water change and vacuum. Also, add some epsom salts as it acts as a laxative and will help in getting the excess mucus out. Add 2 tbsp per 10g, pre-mix in a container and add to the tank slowly over 5-6 hours.
If everyone is eating and pooping (normally or stringy) I'd dose the meds with their food. It's more effective than just in the water.
Substitute API for Metro in the following directions, also, disregard the 150mg dosage and use half a packet, the rest can be added to the water.
Metronidazole dosed in food: In a disposable cup, dissolve 150mg of metronidazole in a tablespoon of tank water. Then add food pellets appropriate to the number of fish in the tank. After the pellets have soaked for a few minutes, pour all of the contents of the cup into the tank. Feed the fish this mixture for 5-10 days.
If some fish aren't eating, you can dose the same as you did previously.
Treatment is deemed successful once the fish readily and quickly eats, no longer has any physical symptoms (pop-eye, bloating) and experiences multiple, normal bowel movements. 
Once you have concluded the treatment, gradually return the tank to normal salinity over a period of 5-6 hours via small partial water changes until approximately 100% of water has been changed and resume normal filtration.


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## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks for the advice GTZ. Sorry I should have been specific, yes it's a 55g. I went and bought another box of API and will dose again in the morning. I will also do another partial water change and vacuum. I have a question about the Epsom salts- should I leave it in the aquarium for the course of the entire treatment ie: dosing the food for 5-10 days? Or should I be doing water changes during the days I'm dosing the food? Maybe not because I'm pouring the remainder of the packets I'm using to soak the food in the tank? You've been a great help, thanks again.  :fish:


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Try and keep the epsom salt concentration the same for the duration of the treatment. Any water changes should use new water with epsom pre-dissolved in it.
If you're treating with metro soaked food and half a packet in the water, I'd likely perform at least one 30-40% water change if treating for the full 10 days. Also, keep an eye on ammonia, nitrites and nitrates during the course of the treatment. Perform water changes to lower ammonia or nitrites over 1ppm and nitrates over 40ppm.


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## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

Today everyone seems better except for my 2 Uaru cichlids. They're not eating and are just sitting around lethargically. I just saw some white poo from the female. I'm getting worried, everyone besides these 2 seem fine. Is there anything else I can do for these 2 fish? I know they're much bigger than the rest and you're probably thinking they don't "go" with my tropheus but they've always gotten along fine. I'm going to dose the water again in the morning with more metro. Please though can you tell me if the metro doesn't work for my uarus iS IT SAFE to dose this tank with Clout? Should I maybe remove the Uarus and put them in a small 10g hospital tank I set up last week? Then maybe use the clout in that tank? Please advise :-?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

If they're both eating and having bowel movements, I'd continue with the treated food. Metro in food will be much more effective than any waterborne medication.
If they're not both eating and having bowel movements, you can switch to Clout if you'd like. I'd likely leave them in the tank they're in so as not to increase stress in the tank. You'll need a water change and a day of no meds before treating the tank.
Treating with Clout:
Be sure to maintain temperature and water salinity when performing all water changes. 
Treating bloat using Clout is relatively simple. It should be noted here that Clout will turn your tank water blue and may stain clear slilcone and/or other plastics in the tank. As already mentioned above, before you begin treatment, perform a 30-40% water change, vacuum, remove any chemical filtration and add 2 tablespoons of epsom salt for every ten gallons of water, pre-mixed and added gradually over a period of 5-6 hours. 
Using a disposable cup, dissolve in some tank water one tablet of Clout per 10 gallons (round up if necessary). Pour the mixture into the tank imtermittently, perhaps taking a half hour to administer a complete dosage -- this drug can be very strong and so it is important to follow this guideline so as not to shock your already stressed fish. Repeat the same dosage for the next two days, again performing a 30-40% water change beforehand. Daily water changes are essential for Clout's maximum effectiveness. The water changes also facilitate the removal of the old, disabled chemicals. Three days of treatment should be sufficient, if the inflammation is not too severe, otherwise treat for a full five days. 
If after five days, you still don't notice a change, begin the treatment again after a two day hiatus. 
Once you have concluded the treatment, gradually return the tank to normal salinity over a period of 5-6 hours via small partial water changes until approximately 100% of water has been changed and resume normal filtration.


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## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

Well I treated with metro again this morning, everyone is eating the medicated food except the Uarus. Again I see stringy white poo from the female  Everyone else is fine which is what makes this so frustrating.
I'm giving it til the morning after tomorrow to work but it sure looks like I'm going to have to try the Clout. I picked some up last night. I will follow your instructions starting with a 30-40% water change and vacuum. The thing that's so frustrating is that all the other fish seem fine. I was really trying to avoid dyeing my tank blue but I'll do it if it'll save my Uarus. Thanks GTZ, I'll let you know how it goes.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Could it be you are feeding white food? Is the poop thick like regular brown fish poop, or like the finest hair you ever saw that flows with the slightest current?

I don't ever recall seeing the stringy white poop repeatedly from the same fish. The fish empties his gut of the mucous and then there is no poop at all.


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## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

I use NLS pellets and some flakes but nothing white. The Uaru I was talking about definitely had stringy white poo 2 days in a row, not normal looking at all. I think things might be turning around though- just in the last few hours both Uarus have started swimming around the tank again and are acting much more like their old selves. They're not sitting quietly in the corner behind the plants anymore where they spent the last few days doing nothing. I think we might have finally turned the corner on this thing. I'll be more sure tomorrow though at feeding time and we'll see whether they've gotten their appetites back. I am at this point cautiously optimistic!


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## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

Well I guess I spoke too soon  The Uarus still refuse to eat and the female just had more stringy white poo. I haven't seen her eat anything but the poo keeps coming so I'm a little confused. I didn't want to do this but tomorrow I'm going to have to start treatment with Clout. At this point it seems to be my only option.


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## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

I could really use some advice here. I was still a little reluctant to start with Clout so I thought I'd give the metro another go. I found some pure metro at a LFS and added it to the tank per instructions. My fire mouth did not handle this well. He started breathing heavily and spazzing out. Other fish started attacking him. It was awful. So I scooped him up and put him in my qt. He's still alive, this happened 2 days ago but he's not eating but is breathing ok. In the meantime my Uarus continue to be off food. I haven't seen the male eat at all but the female must be eating something because again this morning there was that darned white poo again. All my other fish are fine. I want to move the Uarus to quarantine and use Clout because obviously metro hasn't worked for these two and I'm reluctant to treat my whole tank with Clout because none of the other fish are sick anymore. Now I have a sick fm in my qt tank. Arghhhhhhh. What to do??


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## Chunkanese (Feb 4, 2011)

NadiaS said:


> I could really use some advice here. I was still a little reluctant to start with Clout so I thought I'd give the metro another go. I found some pure metro at a LFS and added it to the tank per instructions. My fire mouth did not handle this well. He started breathing heavily and spazzing out. Other fish started attacking him. It was awful. So I scooped him up and put him in my qt. He's still alive, this happened 2 days ago but he's not eating but is breathing ok. In the meantime my Uarus continue to be off food. I haven't seen the male eat at all but the female must be eating something because again this morning there was that darned white poo again. All my other fish are fine. I want to move the Uarus to quarantine and use Clout because obviously metro hasn't worked for these two and I'm reluctant to treat my whole tank with Clout because none of the other fish are sick anymore. Now I have a sick fm in my qt tank. Arghhhhhhh. What to do??


follow GTZ instructions, if metro isnt working maybe you should use clout


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Since the metro did not work, I'm wondering if it was really bloat. But I don't have any better suggestions.

If the fish is still showing symptoms, no reason not to try the clout in a hospital tank. Clout can be used for other illnesses as well so maybe it will work.


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## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

DJ Can you answer a question for me? Do some fish have a negative reaction to Metro if it's been used fairly often over a period of time? Now I have a demasoni whos been acting weird since this morning after the dose of Metro. He's standing almost straight up along the side of the glass and looks like he's doing this shaky thing with his body. Have I ODed him? This is getting really stressful.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No I have had no reactions to metro. But it has always worked the first time for me...in 2-3 days actually.

And my fish that get this are more herbivorous...the demasoni has a much longer gut than your usual fish. You are talking about carnivores...no experience treating bloat with them.


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## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

I started this thread in July and thought my problem with my Uarus was done. The stringy white poo had disappeared and the female even had babies much to my surprise. Unfortunately the fry did not survive. I honestly had no experience dealing with babies and being a community tank, they were there one day and gone the next.  
Now here's where things took a turn for the worse. The white poo came back to visit, the female Uaru being the only victim this time. This was about a month ago. I bought more API general cure and treated the tank (55g) for 6 days. Well actually it was 3 days, then had to wait for 2 days to buy more, then another 3 days of treatment. This stuff is not cheap here, $25 a 10 pack. I vacuumed, did water changes but the female still showed signs of disease. More white poo. Arghhh! :x 
Now I decided to try some Clout. I have treated the tank for 3 days but I'm looking at her now, trailing a long string of white poo behind her.   
What am I doing wrong and why does the same fish keep getting sick? Please if someone can advise me as to what I should do help me!! I am so frustrated and confused!! :-?


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## Cartem2 (Oct 4, 2011)

I am sorry to here about your Uaru. I have a Green Terror that seems to be having the same reoccurring white stringy poo. I have just started treating with API gen cure. I have only been treating for a few days so far. One thing I would like to ask is are you soaking the food in the API gen cure as well as treating the water? From what I have read it works better in the food than in the water, I would do both in your case if the Uaru is still not eating. You can get the API gen cure on DRs Foster and Smiths web site for $6 and shipping is about $6 you can find them on google. Hope that helps some, good luck with her


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Is the uaru still eating? If it is then it may not be bloat.
Some of my mbuna from time to time will have a whiter than normal bowel movement, sometimes a bit stringy. I don't treat with anything as long as they're still eating well.
When they stop eating and have the aforementioned symptoms is when I get worried and begin a treatment.


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## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks Cartem, I'll definitely look for Dr. Foster and Smith on the net. I've already spent at least $250 on API at Petland, our local ripoff fish store. As far as soaking the food goes, I have done it but not as much as I could have.I've read that it works better that way as well, so maybe I'll give it another try. I'm just concerned that maybe fish develop some sort of immunity to too much of the same medication, like penicillin with people but I'm not really sure about that. It's interesting that your Green Terror has the same reoccurring problem, since Uarus and Terrors look almost like the same fish. It sounds like there might be some sort of genetically related thing going on here since yours keeps coming back as well. Strange isn't it? 
I hope you can get it under control too. Good luck with your Terror


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## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

Hi GTZ, she doesn't seem too interested in food this last while, kind of slinks away and goes to the bottom of the tank when I feed them. I'm assuming she must be eating something though because if she wasn't, where would all this poo come from? Besides it's not just a time to time thing. This last few days, even after using Clout, there's been a lot of it coming out. Long, long pieces too. She also looks quite a bit greyer than her male counterpart. I definitely think there's something wrong with her. I've assumed it's been bloat all this time but I could be wrong. Could it be something else? I've even thought of taking a sample somewhere to get it analyzed, but I'm not sure where I'd be able to have that done.


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## Cartem2 (Oct 4, 2011)

I am no fish Dr. but I am assuming it is some kind of parasite and not exactly bloat. From what I have read about bloat my GT would be dead by now if that is what he had. Mine was gasping and spitting food and looked some what bloated when I noticed the white stringy poo the 1st time so I began treatment of epsom salt 1 tsp per 5gal and I fasted him for one week. He began to eat and have normal poo after that but this week the white poo came back. I feed once a day and he is still eating this time so I am soaking the food in the metro for this treatment and will see how he does in about 2 weeks. If it persists after this I am going to just let it go as GTZ suggested and make sure he doesn't show any other sines of illness before I try anything else.


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## NadiaS (Jul 14, 2011)

That's one thing I haven't done, use Epsom salt. Maybe I'll give that a try. You know I was thinking the same thing, if this was bloat wouldn't it have killed her by now? I just don't know. That's what's so frustrating. It would be nice to know for sure what the problem is. Throughout these reoccurring bouts of whatever it is, I've not really noticed her being bloated at all. Mostly it's just been the really long strings of white poo and her lack of interest in food at feeding time. Well that and her looking kind of grey and lethargic while spending most of her time hanging out at the bottom of the tank. I'm just confused by the whole thing to be honest. I wish I knew what the heck I'm really dealing with here and how to get rid of it permanently.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It could be the mix of tankmates you have is causing low-grade stress. When you treat they get better, but the stress eventually makes they susceptible again.

What are the dimensions of your tank and what is your stock? pH? ammonia? nitrite? nitrate?


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