# crystal clear water tips?



## bmweiler09 (Nov 17, 2009)

I have a 30 gallon with an emperor bio wheel 280. Its been set up for about a month, and the water is fairly clear except I can see these tiny white specks in the direct light, almost like dust floating in the sun coming through a window.
The only thing I can think of is its very small sand particles that aren't dense enough to sink? I have play sand as a substrate which is very fine, but I've already had that same sand in an established tank for about a year.

Any advise on what this is or how to get rid of it would be great!
sorry no pictures, lost camera battery


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Felt Fabric makes a great "fine media"...

Putting a layer of felt across the back of your cartridge would make the cartridge filter out finer particles... just keep in mind doing so will also clog it up quicker requiring more frequent maintenance...


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## bmweiler09 (Nov 17, 2009)

Thats a good idea. 
any ideas on where could I get some or how to attach it?

this is what the cartridges look like:

notice they already have a fine particle layer, but its obviously not doing the job.

thanks!


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## bmweiler09 (Nov 17, 2009)

pic didnt post, here it is.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

You can get felt fabric at any fabric store... I get white, soak it in hot water, then run it through the washing machine in hot water. This is to get any dyes or chemicals out of it. I'm not sure if this is necessary but...

It's only a couple dollar per yard... which is 3' x 5'... which is A TON seeing you will be using (approx) 4" x 8" pieces...

Just cut pieces a little bit larger than your cartridge... put a new (or newly cleaned) cartdige in the filter... and put the felt behind it. Per the water flow direction it would be placed in front of it... per your orientation it would be behind it...

Did that last part make sense?


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## bmweiler09 (Nov 17, 2009)

haha that last part was a little confusing.. 
I'm thinking you want the stock filter to be the first thing the water contacts? so it gets all the larger particles out before it passes through the felt?

wow that is really cheap.. Ill definitely have to pick some up!

thanks!


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

Depending on your budget, Purigen by Seachem is a surefire way to polish your water to amazing clarity. Worth giving that a try if Filter floss doesn't get you satisfactory results...


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

bmweiler09 said:


> I'm thinking you want the stock filter to be the first thing the water contacts? so it gets all the larger particles out before it passes through the felt?


You are right in the idea that "ideally" you would want course media, followed by fine media, then bio and/or chemical media...

But the cartridge style filters are designed in a way that pushes you to stick with the cartridges they have to offer. If you are the type to rebuild your own cartridges (which many do) then it makes complete sense to wrap the felt around the plastic frame, then wrap a courser material around the felt... Some styles of Cartridge filters also have a 'basket' the water goes through before it goes through the cartridge. In my opinion a course pad is the best choice to use in such a basket.

My suggestion to place the felt before the cartridge was using simplicity as the goal, not efficiency. Feel free to take any/all steps to improve efficiency to the simple answers.


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## bmweiler09 (Nov 17, 2009)

mine does have the baskets that came with it.. I think it was meant for the carbon pellets. so your saying i should put a course material in the basket, then wrap felt around it and don't use the cartridges they sell?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I definitely don't want to suggest "what you should do"... as you have many options quite of few of which are good options...

I also haven't owned an Emporer HOB in a few years and it was several years old... So I'm not familar with the exact design of the newest models...

But if you have a 'basket' prior to the cartridge slot, I would put course foam/sponge there...

I would not buy new cartridges time after time. The inconvenience and limitation cerated by the cartridges is one my biggest complaints about these filters.

I would use the cartridges you have, and put felt between the coarse foam/sponge that is in the basket and the cartridge...

Instead of discarding and replacing the cartridge, I would rebuild it. "Back in the day" they used to sell rebuild kits with cartridge frames that were designed for easy rebuilding. The cartridge design pictured above is a more difficult frame to rebuild with. I'm not sure what frame options are available these days... But one way or anotehr I'd be rebuilding them as opposed to buying new.

When I rebuilt it, I would do so in a way that had a medium course fabric, followed by a felt fabric. You will find many people do not commonly use carbon, myself included. Then the bio wheel acts as your 'wet/dry' bio media.


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## munkyspooker (Nov 19, 2009)

:thumb: 's up to all the responses. Great ideas.

-Tim


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## iCichlid (Sep 21, 2009)

Like Toby said, watch your flow rate. The felt will clog up pretty quick causing the filter cartridge to act like a dam and not a filter  The water will flow over top of the cartridge and well, defeat the purpose!

Good luck on those white specs!!! I get them now and then too and i'm running an FX5 and an xP4 on a 55 Gallon!


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## shadowspar (Nov 16, 2009)

some people attach a refrigerator micron filter to a water pump and leave it in the tank for a few cycles, that usually does a VERY good job. thats real water polishing.


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## bmweiler09 (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks alot for all the tips everyone!! =D> 
Im glad to hear there are simple alternatives to the $9 cartridges..
and the filter has different flow settings so I will mess around with it until I get it right.

just one more question:

Is there an issue with the carbon? because I do have one more new stock cartridge.. but Ill ditch it if its a problem!

thanks!


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

in my experience the micron filters filter a little too well...they tend to slow water movement after a couple days when they get clogged. i bought extra grey media baskets for my emp. 400s and just cram them with filter floss and have been very happy with my water quality. the bio wheels will take care of you bio filtration so the media compartment should be filled with whatever mechanical media you choose. the particles floating around could be micro bubbles...if it were sand i would think you would see or hear impeller issues.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

i have done away with carbon years ago since its not really needed unless you need to remove meds. also they can get expensive, they can also leach all the things they have absorbed back into the tank after awhile.


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## pretty-nifty (Nov 4, 2009)

How do you use purigen? Can I just stick this in the basket behind the cartriges? Couldn't tell the size from the ad...


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## rupertoooo (Dec 7, 2005)

bmweiler09 said:


> I have a 30 gallon with an emperor bio wheel 280. Its been set up for about a month, and the water is fairly clear except I can see these tiny white specks in the direct light, almost like dust floating in the sun coming through a window.
> The only thing I can think of is its very small sand particles that aren't dense enough to sink? I have play sand as a substrate which is very fine, but I've already had that same sand in an established tank for about a year.
> 
> Any advise on what this is or how to get rid of it would be great!
> sorry no pictures, lost camera battery


I realize it is annoying, but it will eventually dissipate. That is not an uncommon trait when it comes to setting up a new tank.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

pretty-nifty said:


> How do you use purigen? Can I just stick this in the basket behind the cartriges? Couldn't tell the size from the ad...


It's pretty small
Pretty much need to put it in a filter bag, then place it in the filter or sump somewhere. Pantyhose works but disintegrates after a couple of bleachings, don't ask  The filter bags are only a buck or two and well worth it.


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## pretty-nifty (Nov 4, 2009)

Does the purigen take place of the carbon? Will it be overkill to put carbon and the purigen?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I've been told by a Seachem Rep that Purigen will do eveything that Carbon will do, plus a few other things...

Since Purigen is rechargable and Carbon is not, I think it makes sense to use Purigen "instead" of Carbon, not "in addition" to it... Although using both is an option...


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

*Q:* Does Purigen take the place of carbon?

*One word answer:* Yes.

*Long answer:* Purigen is far better then carbon in numerous ways. For starters, its reusable. Carbon has a life span of (arguably) 2 weeks. Also, if carbon is used to far beyond its saturation point, it can become toxic. Also, Purigen is incredibly micro-porous. It can trap microscopic organic matter; thus making it a fantastic water polisher. More so then carbon.

P.S, be sure to place it last (or first, depending on setup) in your order of media; that is, in order from most course to finest, Purigen would be the finest and therefore the last media to contact the water before returning to the aquarium (hope that made sense). :thumb:


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## pretty-nifty (Nov 4, 2009)

So I can replace the cartridge on the my HOB with this? Purigen, some floss and anything else? Purigen will be packed in one of those bags that I saw at my LFS. Same bags you put the carbon in. Then cut some floss about the same size as the cartrige and stuff it in the back there as well... Is this how people do it? Does it matter what order you put it?

Let's see... the water gets sucked up by the impller pressure, then it spills over to the reservoir where the cartridges are which will now be a home made concoction. This reservoir is always full so the water spilling over is always on top. I don't see how the water gets filtered...

Then it fills up and spill over and spins the biowheel. Is this right?


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## bmweiler09 (Nov 17, 2009)

It sounds like you have the same filter as me, and it also sounds like you need to turn it down.

you're right, if the water is running over top of the cartridge, its not filtering like its supposed to. turn it down so that the water level before the cartridge is just below the top of the cartridge, so that all the water is being pulled through it.


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## pretty-nifty (Nov 4, 2009)

turn it down? is it with the vent on the tube?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

^That's right, the water is supposed to run through the cartridge, not over it...

If water is spilling over it you need to either A) change the cartridge or B) reduce the flow rate...

One way to reduce the flow rate is to put a prefilter sponge on the intake, which will also reduce the amount of large particles that clog the cartridge allowing more time between cleanings. Just be sure to clean the prefilter frequently or you will reduce the flow rate to much....


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## rich_t (Nov 26, 2009)

I don't know if this is still an accepted practice, but I used to take used carbon, lay it out in a thin layer on a cookie sheet and bake it at about 400 degrees for 30 minutes or so, then reuse it.

I got that tip from an aquarium store back in the early 80s.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

emp 280s cant adjust flow rates they _do_ have two different intakes on the same intake shaft but closing one will only transfer the suction to the other. if the water is spilling over the cartridges you need to change or clean the filter media. it is best to have the full power of the suction of your 280 and keep the media cartridges clean to accomplish this rather than trying to reduce flow and therefore productivity of your filter.


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## bmweiler09 (Nov 17, 2009)

steelers fan said:


> emp 280s cant adjust flow rates they _do_ have two different intakes on the same intake shaft but closing one will only transfer the suction to the other. if the water is spilling over the cartridges you need to change or clean the filter media. it is best to have the full power of the suction of your 280 and keep the media cartridges clean to accomplish this rather than trying to reduce flow and therefore productivity of your filter.


Are you sure you're thinking of an emperor 280??
That is what I have and _yes_ you can adjust the flow rate. Its the gray tab that moves up & down over the intake.

and if you'll read my post, I said with a completely new cartridge and the whole filter cleaned it still overflows on full power.


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

rich_t said:


> I don't know if this is still an accepted practice, but I used to take used carbon, lay it out in a thin layer on a cookie sheet and bake it at about 400 degrees for 30 minutes or so, then reuse it.
> 
> I got that tip from an aquarium store back in the early 80s.


Your wasting your time. It takes an industrial oven to reach the several thousand degrees necessary to accomplish this. It cannot be done in your oven. This is one of those "Myths" that just will not die.

As is the myth about carbon releasing what it has adsorbed back into the water upon exhaustion. It simply cannot happen, unless what is being adsorbed is captured at a pH of 10 and then you quickly shift the pH down to 4, or visa-versa.... and if this happens in our tanks, carbon releasing something is the least of our worries.

Purigen sounds great, but beware of its potential to totally wreck havoc on your pH. I once overdosed on Discus Buffer during the regeneration process and subsequently had Purigen drop the pH of my tank to undetectable levels (well below 5.0). If using Purigen, follow the regeneration instructions to the letter, which should bring Purigen back to a neutral pH. Even then, it may result in a change of pH on your tank (bringing it to neutral). I'm of the opinion that, following regeneration, the pH of the tank is going to become whatever the pH of the second stage of the Purigen regeneration was.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> yes you can adjust the flow rate. Its the gray tab that moves up & down over the intake


Not really a flow control. That grey tab allows water to be pulled from the middle level of the intake as well as from the end. Just like he said.
Open it or close it, the flow is the same.

Lighten up, not anyone here is trying to give out any misinformation.


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## shmenge (Dec 7, 2009)

This discussion has been very interesting to me. However, I know what caused my tank's current cloudiness but want to know which of the above-mentioned ideas might work best for me.
I recently added cleaned and soaked limestone slabs to my tank. The fish seem fine but no matter how the limestone was prepared it's released a lot of particulates to cloudy the water.
On this tank I was given the filter is a Whisper 30 which I keep clean in a 29-gallon tank that I do frequent water changes in.
Would felt or other material inserted into the filter be best?
What location would be optimal?
Thanks for any help!


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## Tinga (Nov 27, 2009)

I found some register covers for floor and ceiling heating registers.










They seem LESS fine than batting, but more than the blue bonded pads.

I rinsed mine off and stuck them in a smaller tank I have. Seems to work alright


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## bmweiler09 (Nov 17, 2009)

anyone else have suggestions for fine material to use?
those vent covers look like they would work pretty good.
are they pretty cheap?

also how can you tell if its safe to use?


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## Tinga (Nov 27, 2009)

They are pretty cheap, I got mine similar to those shown, at my hardware store. There were 12-12 per packet at like $1-2 a package. I rinsed mine off really well in just tap water. The water ran clear and no particles dropped from it. 
I've got 3 sheets in my Fluval305 now. 2 are just single sheets for the big stuff and I doubled up the final sheet for a polisher. Works great, stays stiff and retains it's shape. So far I've rinsed mine about every 4 days and they still seem to be holding up well.

Single sheet held up to the window









Doubled up


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