# New JD



## andywoolloo

Hi. New to the forum but have been reading for awhile.

Just got a baby jack a week ago. Unknown sex yet and I don't think I can post a pic
Till I've done five posts, is this correct?

I've been keeping fish since 2004 I think. Started out w bettas then catfish (Cory's plecos synos)
Even had a tank w comet goldfish for awhile. Went thru MTS lol

Have downsized recently from about 7 tanks to one. Got too overwhelming and wanted to just enjoy and not be 
A slave to water lol

I have my new baby JD in my existing 75 gal w a gold nugget (5 yrs in tank) & two panda cories.

I'm under the impression I will have to rehome my nugget due to the agressive nature of the dempsey. Wouldn't want 
To see him damaged or killed. Just wondering when I need to do this.

So let me just say I love my new little fiesty fish. He is much like the goldfish and bettas in that he comes up when I approach etc. it's nice.

Tank stats

75 gal
Slate rocks driftwood live and fake plants sand base 
Caves and pipes. 
300 watt heater
Two Rena filstar fx5
Weekly 50% water change 
A - 0
NI - 0
NA - 5 
PH - 6.8

So far he eats everything food wise. Omega cichlid pellets (crushes cause I accidentally got large size)
Spirulina flake, hikari frozen shrimp and bloodworm. Sinking earthworm and veggie sticks, sinking shrimp pellets, sinking 
Algae wafers. Anything I put in he she eats.

Any advice welcome. And I hope to post a picture soon for sexing

My plan was to have it be a male female jd tank I'm not sure about that anymore. Don't know what I'd do w all the babies 
Been there done that when breeding BN plecos. And don't know about the aggression. So any ideas? I also know I will have to prob re home the cories too when he she or they get big enough to attempt to eat them

Hi again


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## andywoolloo

Don't know how to edit that post but tank temp 82


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## lp85253

just keep him stress free...(no bigger tankmates , that may harass him)...and don't overfeed...keep nirtates down below 30...and enjoy


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## lp85253

as a quick edit , the cories and pleco will be fin e for a while (90%sure ,anyway),once the jack gets some size that may change, as far as breeding ,I haven't done that with jacks but if you do ,you are best off with a 2 fish tank...


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## andywoolloo

Hey thanks for answering! He or she seems quite content now. 
Just glad he's swimming around eating.

Trying a picture



He was eating and curling lol


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## andywoolloo

I think that's some shrimp in their w him floating around


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## sirdavidofdiscus

eventually the cories will be snacks for the jd.


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## andywoolloo

Yeah I'm going to remove the two pandas and the gold nuggett. 
Don't want them injured etc.

When do I need to do it by? Now he/she is not harassing or attempting to eat that I know of

The JD is approx 3 inches or 2.5

Anyone know the sex?


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## Mosby

I'm new to the forum and fairly new to fishkeeping, but I have a JD and I believe that the blue coloration on the lower part of the gill plate and below the jaw indicates a female.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Allow some time for the fish to grow to properly sex. If you want to try for a pair, buy 3 more at a similar size. Once a pair forms you'll need to remove the others.

To help your JD settle in, add a fast moving dither fish like Buenos Aires tetras. I would think the Pleco is safe.


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## andywoolloo

Thanks


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## andywoolloo

Ok pleco and Cory's out 
I will miss them

Three new JDs in.

One was totally black at the store tank. I didn't 
Even think it was a JD

He lost his black in transit home. Hope it comes back

Was beautiful.

Tank was rearranged. More caves added. Drip acclimated them during that

They are in and tank lites off.

Hope I did the right thing. What if they are all the same sex?? Omg


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## Iggy Newcastle

That dark coloration will come and and go and is based on mood. I have one around 3" and can look so incredibly dark at times. Minutes later it can be much lighter.


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## andywoolloo

I'd love it if they all were dark.

Moonlights on to scope it out and give some food cause the original JD hasn't had dinner

Some eating some chasing. Sigh. Is chasing bad or normal ?

I don't know how they can chase in their lots of wood and line of sight breaks.

These fish are fast.


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## andywoolloo

They are all alive this morning!

I had a hard time sleeping worrying about them lol

The little one that was black is totally black again.


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## Bikeman48088

andywoolloo said:


> They are all alive this morning!
> 
> I had a hard time sleeping worrying about them lol
> 
> The little one that was black is totally black again.


Juvenile JDs aren't that aggressive in my experience. I have 6 in my 110 gallon tank and at least three are males. My four T. Meeki are more aggressive than the JDs, but only chase others out of their territory. Not a nipped fin in 4 months and counting.


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## andywoolloo

That's so good to know!! Thank you!! 
I've never had a cichlid before and wasn't sure.

When are they considered not juvenile anymore ?


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## Iggy Newcastle

> When are they considered not juvenile anymore ?


That's a good question. The easy answer would be when they become sexually mature. But maybe not the best answer. I've read testimonials where people state their JDs wouldn't spawn until the male was 8" and then where they had a pair guarding fry at 4.5".


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## andywoolloo

Ok thanks.


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## andywoolloo

Well the four are still in. Original one and three others.

They are very very fast and hard to photo. They are voracious eaters

I can't tell any sexes. I wish they could live all together but I know they can't.

Not sure if this is the tank I want. Even if I get lucky and two pair off (if I have makes and females in there 
And not all once sex) what is my point? I've no desire to raise 300 JD babies and no one will be able to be in there 
to eat the eggs or babies without getting pummeled by the JDs

Also if they pair once and mate whose to say they won't kill one or the other of each other after?

I thought/think that they are beautiful fish and wanted one then didn't want he or she to be lonely so thought of a mate. Then I thought what if I just have a solo female won't she get egg bound with no mate?

Sigh. Unknown what I am doing guys. More pictures but the black one is too fast and can't get a good shot

Original one







One of the new additions





Three of them



The one that seems to get harassed



New one that doesn't get harassed







Bad picture of black one



Little better ones of Blackie


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## andywoolloo




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## andywoolloo

Are they still too young to sex or not good enough pics?

Guess i just have to wait and see?


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## andywoolloo

I think I have two males and two females

I think the original one is a female due to how much colour is on her lower mouth
And how short her top fin is on the end But I am confused cause she has so much colour on her body. This one:



I think this new one is a girl due to lots of colour on bottom mouth but her top fin does go up high at the end so that's confusing to me



I think this new one is a male due to no blue smudging on bottom mouth & the top fin is very high on the end



I think this new one is a male due to not much colour on bottom mouth and also 
The top fin going up high on the end



I ordered the current USA satellite led plus lights today.

Pretty excited about that


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## Iggy Newcastle

Hey Andy...

The fish still look fairly small. Let them grow a bit.

You'll like that light. I was surprised how much I liked the 'dynamic fade' features. Some of them like the lightning storm are unusable, but others are really nice.


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## hose91

No help on the JD's, but +1 on the Sat+ light. I'm forever playing with the colors. I have one of the memory buttons set to be just one click on of the white leds, and I can start with that one and then add the colors. It's pretty cool, and I agree with Iggy about the dynamic modes. The rolling clouds features a realistic variation of the light that's pleasing to be around. It's super low profile and easy to move around. Give some thought as to where you'll stick the sensor for the remote so you can still take the light off the tank and set it aside.


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## andywoolloo

Alright Iggy, I'll try to chill out and be patient.

Re the light yeah I'm excited. And I thought the lightening one would be not one the fish would like

Hose, I will definitely think on the sensor placement while I'm waiting for it to arrive. Any suggestions on where?


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## hose91

Sorry for delayed reply. Short answer is that once you stick it down, its pretty permanent and the wire is attached at both ends now, so the light is tethered to the sensor. So, I'd suggest you temporarily stick it down where it makes sense, and then wait until you've done as many tank related things as you can imagine (clean, maintain filters, observe, feed, day, night, etc, etc) so that you know its in a good spot, and then stick it down. I had some other thoughts, but they ended up being dangerously close to a review, so I'll stick them over there.


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## andywoolloo

Ok thanks!

I read your review also

Still waiting on delivery


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## andywoolloo

ok so a question on the lights i ordered the single ramp timer with it and im thinking now i should have ordered the dual ramp timer.

on their site the single ramp timer appears to only be able to switch it on and off at set times. the dual ramp timer appears to do the same but with the 15 min fade up and down. but i cant clearly tell from their website cause it says compatible but limited under the dual and the single says on and off only yet both say 15 min fade up and down yes..

just wondering if anyone here know s who has them or do i need to call usa satelitte

cause i would really like to do the 15 min fade up and down

or did i need the ramp timer pro omg im confused


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## andywoolloo

i found this but still confused

also maybe i need to ask these questions in the equipment section sorry

http://current-usa.com/ramp-timer-compatibility-with-satellite-led-plus/


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## hose91

andywoolloo said:


> i found this but still confused
> 
> also maybe i need to ask these questions in the equipment section sorry
> 
> http://current-usa.com/ramp-timer-compatibility-with-satellite-led-plus/


Did you get your light yet? I think what this is saying is that you can use the single or dual ramp timer for the 15 minute ramp up/down IF you leave the light in one of the standard 6 colors at the top of the remote. Any of the other modes or Memory settings (which are presumably dimmed versions of the standard colors) are already being controlled by the sat plus, and can't be controlled again by the ramp timer or you get funky results. So, you'd have to not use any of the dynamic modes, or at least remember to change from a dynamic mode back to a set color before you wanted the ramp timer to work. The dual ramp timer is similar, but has the advantage of a second output control so you could add a moonlight only fixture controlled by the second output.

So far, I'm living without the timer. The suddenness of the light gets the fish sometimes, but they recover quickly.


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## andywoolloo

Yes the light came on my Monday so had to wait till days off, yesterday, to install.

I love it. It's sleek and really great fun. The single ramp timer is ok. I can do the 15 min ramp up at sunrise and 15 ramp down at sunset.

It's a drag that I have to disconnect (well not disconnect but turn off the ramp timer if I want to run the moon colors. And I have to remember to put the lights back to normal full spectrum before I leave it for the night so in the morning it can ramp up and not freak out ie strobe or flicker.

But other then that I love it.

What I want is the ramp up and down then transition to the moonlights for a few hrs then ramp down to dark then in the morning ramp up to sunrise.

I could probably do it w a dual ramp maybe or a seperate strip of LEDs and separate single ramp timer.

Also I feel pretty sure they're getting ready to come out w a new light and here I just bought this one! Lol

I talked to a guy at current re the timer and asked him also were they coming out w something new for deeper freshwater tanks w plants other then low light plants and more flexibility w the timers and he said yes but it's still in prototype or something and he said they put out new ramp timers where you don't get the flicker if it's not on the right light setting at ramp up and down but he said there's no way to know if I have a new timer or not. He said if I bought it from a place w high turnover of stock like amazon then probably I got a new one. I told him I got mine from drsfosterandsmith and he said you probably got a new one then but he couldn't tell me for sure.


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## andywoolloo

All fish ok. Vigorous eaters. Fast swimmers

I think I have three girls and one boy but being patient like Iggy
Says


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## hose91

Congrats, and I'm glad it worked out ok! I would like exactly the same thing as you, but I think it will take a dual ramp timer and dedicated set of moonlights. I'm ok for now, perhaps bide my time and see what hits the market in the next few months or so. My fish continue to not love the abruptness of light changes, but they seem to be surviving ok.

Have you tried to watch it do the ramp up after purposely leaving it on a dynamic mode to see if it freaks out? I'd be interested to see what happens, but not at the risk of you breaking your new light


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## andywoolloo

No but that's a good idea!! I will do that. A test.
He said it doesn't break them just an effect no one likes lol


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## hose91

Cool! Dumb question. Does the single ramp timer let you ramp it on/off more than once in a 24 hour period? So, ramp up in the early morning, ramp down midday during high ambient light, then back on early evening and off after dark?


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## andywoolloo

i dont know i will check when i go home after work and read it , right now i just have the ramp up in morning and ramp down at lights off time


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## andywoolloo

so from what i've gatherred my dempseys are omnivores, w a bent towards canivore? is this correct?

they are eating NLS cichlid granuels (small), Omega One small cichlid pellets, spirulina flake, Hikari frozen bloodworms, Hikari frozen spirulina mysis shrimp, San Francisco Bay Emerald Entree which has

_Water, Brine Shrimp, Mysis, Krill, Plankton, Spinach, Romaine Lettuce, Red Leaf Lettuce, Spirulina Algae, Menhaden Oil, Sodium Alginate, Vitamin Premix (Wheat Flour, Vitamin A Acetate, Cholecalciferol (Source Of Vitamin D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Inositol, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Betaine, D-Alpha Mixed Tocopherols (Source Of Vitamin E))._

is this good? also how many times a day ? everything i read says three times which seems excessive, im doing two rt now

p.s. also when they are bigger i will try the live foods in guess like crickets, yuch


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## Iggy Newcastle

Your fish are still young so several small feeds a day are fine.

Not familiar with San Fran Bay food.

You do not need to feed live foods.


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## andywoolloo

oh ok thanks re the live food

the SF Bay Brand is just another frozen food brand, but its the only one with some herbivore stuff in it i can find.

i tried to give them romain lettuce and zuchinni and cuke and they kinda look at it and poke at it. then look at me :fish:


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## andywoolloo

I haven't gotten to mess around w the timer yet

But I have some more pictures of them taken this morning

The original one:



Orig one on left (and one of the three newer ones to the right )











Original on left w all other three in motion around


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## andywoolloo

One of the newer ones



Same fish



Same fish



Diff newer one (poss my only male unless my Original is a male )





Smallest newer one


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## Iggy Newcastle

Lookin good Andy and I love all the plants. Is that floating one real?


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## andywoolloo

No I wish. That's a fake one I would have real floating but the currents a bit much 
I'm running two Rena xp4s. The biggest ones. Cause I had plecos in there.

The jacks seem ok with it tho


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## Iggy Newcastle

Thanks


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## andywoolloo

Are they still too young to sex


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## Bikeman48088

From the pix, I'd guess that you have some males and females.


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## andywoolloo

Well that's good to hear thanks


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## sirdavidofdiscus

sometimes black is a female breeding color for jd's. I had one spawn at 2inches once. Went completely black until the fry were moved. Really shocked me that it spawned that small.


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## andywoolloo

So just wondering on the behavior of my jacks

The biggest one seems to not want anyone near her/his left side of tank and cave area 
Chases them away when they venture over.

The two smaller ones sees to stay together on right side 
And a third one takes a middle ish cave.

The biggest jack also seems to randomly go to other areas and chase but not continually 
So I can't decide if that fish seems to claim more then the left side if I had to guess he 
Or she would maybe prefer whole tank to themselves?

The others don't really intimate chasing that I can see They seem to be ok near each other 
It's like it's three and then one as far as a jack click?

Ok now I saw one of the three zoom at one of the three

So is this normal?


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## Bikeman48088

andywoolloo said:


> So just wondering on the behavior of my jacks
> 
> The biggest one seems to not want anyone near her/his left side of tank and cave area
> Chases them away when they venture over.
> 
> The two smaller ones sees to stay together on right side
> And a third one takes a middle ish cave.
> 
> The biggest jack also seems to randomly go to other areas and chase but not continually
> So I can't decide if that fish seems to claim more then the left side if I had to guess he
> Or she would maybe prefer whole tank to themselves?
> 
> The others don't really intimate chasing that I can see They seem to be ok near each other
> It's like it's three and then one as far as a jack click?
> 
> Ok now I saw one of the three zoom at one of the three
> 
> So is this normal?


I have 6 JDs in my 110 gallon tank. One is freakishly large considering they were all the same size when I bought them. He is the tank boss. He has his territory, but it bumps up against two male Mbunas' territories, so he freely wanders wherever he wants to go and only occasionally defends his turf. The other JDs hang out together and only occasionally chase one another.


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## andywoolloo

I watched your videos and subscribed. Awesome filming! 
So you have 6 JDs. Are you going to be able to keep them all? Cause everything I read 
On line seems to indicate only one or maybe a pair together. I know your tank is way 
Bigger then mine tho. Mines 75 gal and I have 4 JDs

I just thought from all I've read that one will be boss and kill all other fish in tank cept might pair up w one 
And then night even kill her. So I'm curious 
Mine are all still juveniles with one purchase two weeks prior to the other three 
And he or she is def the biggest and boss


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## nlnl

Hey Andy. I'm new to the site & the first post I've read & replied. I enjoyed the pics u posted. I am in California too (Socal SC). I have a pair of JD's that have spawned. Good luck on yours.


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## andywoolloo

Hey Nini!

Who all else if anyone is in the tank with your pair? 
And does your pair get along?

Maybe I'm reading too much re the brute ness of the jacks


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## andywoolloo

"Yeah we don't like that water changing python thing in our tank Mom"


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## andywoolloo

Trying to put a pb video. Guess you have to click pic to 
Go to the video in PB?


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## Iggy Newcastle

Lookin good Andy


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## mambee

Tank looks great. Have you had the live plants in there a long time? I thought that anubias shouldn't be buried in the sand because their rhizomes would rot. Anubias and Java fern do best when tied to driftwood.


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## andywoolloo

Yeah all the live plants except the anubias have been in there for a long time 
I've had anubias in substrate and tied before but yes you're right it prob does better not in sand I'll check it out 
Ty


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## andywoolloo

In fact now that you mention that the best one I had was not in the sand. Thanks


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## andywoolloo

I've even had them flower before. Can't remember if that was in substrate or not


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## nlnl

Hey Andy. I had the two JD's & a Green Texas Terror but with a plexiglass partition. The green Texas is viscous. I eventually sold it on craigslist. Now it's only the female JD & the hundreds of ****. I had to take the male out as he was getting beat up.


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## andywoolloo

The female was beating the male? Wow. 
I don't know how it will go w these fish. Lol
I don't want to be worried about fish getting pummeled

We shall see. They just had breakfast.

If anyone can tell any sex yet from the pics and videos 
Input welcome.


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## nlnl

Yeah. He was letting her beat him up. Now his fine in his own tank. From what I am told the female as more distinct color under the mouth area compared to the male. Hope that helps.


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## andywoolloo

I'm contemplating going sw.

The jacks are beauties but a bit agressive.

I don't know if I'd break down that tank or not

I've always wanted to give salt water a go tho.


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## Bikeman48088

andywoolloo said:


> I'm contemplating going sw.
> 
> The jacks are beauties but a bit agressive.
> 
> I don't know if I'd break down that tank or not
> 
> I've always wanted to give salt water a go tho.


I have little to no aggression between my 6 JDs that I've had since they were 1 1/2-2" long.


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## andywoolloo

No damage. Just seems like the biggie claims whole tank. 
They are doing well. Growing. Unknown sex yet just guesses
I will try and take new pics on days off


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## andywoolloo

ok well they are getting bigger and still no idea what sex they are, i dont see any pairing off. i'm beginning to wonder if the little one that was black is even a JD , his or her nose/face is just shaped different from the others , more pointy-ish

i will try and get some current pics on days off.

just an update of the status


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## andywoolloo

Original JD on top or forefront (I'm thinking he's a male as no smudges on his cheeks and his body very colourful)
And the smaller one in background I'm thinking female cause less colour on body and smudges on chees


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## andywoolloo

This one is part of the original male on top left , a different male under him and the female from last picture to the bottom and left


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## andywoolloo

This is the smallest one that I'm not sure about above the original


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## andywoolloo

I think I have two boys and two girls


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## WYO79

Looks like a female to me.


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## andywoolloo

Which one? The last picture?

Everything going ok with them. Still all four in there 
Haven't noticed any for sure signs of pairing up


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## andywoolloo

Well possibly the biggest two are chummy. But they all get along actually so it's hard to tell


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## andywoolloo

Hey guys! Just an update on my jacks. Two paired up so three removed. I think I had five total. The two paired up so you could notice in the summer so they've been alone in the 75 since probably September? Can't really remember.

I was worried once the others were re homed that the remaining pair would fight but not yet that I've seen. They are growing faster now I think. Beautiful fish. They do what seems to be mating. Making a nest such as moving tons of sand or cleaning off a piece of slate. But I'm not sure. Sometimes they stick together in the biggest cave with only one coming out at a time. But I haven't seen babies. Not that I want to deal with that.

I'm just enjoying these pretty fish.

I'll get a picture posted.

Hope all your tanks are doing well

I have a nano reef now since probably August. 
It's a learning experience lol


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## plumdogg

Very pretty young fish though!


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## andywoolloo

Babies born. A lot of babies.

So they were digging a lot. Moving a lot of sand. Then one day not interested in food. Very unusual. And kinda peeking at me. I'm all hmmm. Babies. Two days later there they all are.

So the smallest food I have is hikari micro pellets. It's pretty small. I put some by where the babies are.

The parents are coming out to eat and I'm feeding like I regularily do. Should I crush up flake for the babies or just let the parents do their thing?

I mean obviously w like hundreds of fry I'm not thinking of trying to take them out into a specific fry tank.

The two adults are the only fish in the 75 so I'll just let it all happen naturally I guess.

Very interesting. The amount of babies is phenomenal.


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## andywoolloo

All those little dots or specks down there are babies 
And they keep rounding them all up in their mouths and bringing them back to the pit


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## andywoolloo

You can see some free swimmers in this one. Especially in front of the cave entrance


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## Iggy Newcastle

Congrats!

So you have no interest in raising the fry, correct?


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## andywoolloo

I have cyclopeze I just remembered. I bought it for my SW fish. Cyclopeze and pe mysis. So I put some cyclopeze frozen food in their for them

It's small

It's not that I have no desire. I mean I've raised bristle nose fry for years and sold to fish store

But these are soooo many. I mean wow.


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## andywoolloo

I don't see how it's possible to have them grow to sale size. The filter in assuming will get the poor wee guys. Is the tank even big enough for hundred of babies lol. I love these jacks. So cool


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## Iggy Newcastle

Well it'd be great if we could and had the time and space to raise all the fry our fish produce.

If you're not planning on raising any, I'd say there's no need to feed them. If you want to there's no harm of course. You could always siphon out 10-20 and raise a small group up.

Glad you're pumped about the spawn and fry. Very cool indeed. 8)


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## andywoolloo

So a few fry hatches later and the female wants to fight w the male

The male is staying on the right side of the tank , female and fry on left. Both adults have bite or injury from fighting marks above their mouths like on the bridge of their nose or above the mouth.

So is this normal? First ever mouth locking fights


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## thiswasgone

It is natural, just put up a divider for a few days. Only remove one of them if it his/her aggression becomes a major problem and is causing serious injuries to the other fish.


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## andywoolloo

Thanks. They are doing better mom even let dad come eat on the left side. But dads giving her a wide berth. Have my divider ready just in case


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