# Considering an Earth Eater Setup... Need some advice



## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

I am re-homing my African Cichlids. I just don't find them interesting no matter how hard I try. I really like SA cichlids, so I am considering doing an eartheater setup instead.

My tank has sand substrate already, and lots of rocks, but I would probably add some driftwood as well. I am not sure what kind of aquascaping is good for an eartheater setup, so I would really appreciate any advise. My tank is 75 gallons.

My LFS regularly stocks Geos. I know that I don't want to go with the Gymno Geos because it is just too warm in my area to give the the cooling off period that they require. I would also like to add some plecos, cories, and schooling fish to the tank if this is at all possible. I am not sure what Geos will tollerate as far as tankmates are concerned.

I would really appreciate some help coming up with some stocking lists that I like. I am looking to make this switch within the next couple weeks because my Africans are starting to get really aggressive towards eachother (once again) and I don't want to deal with any more injured fish.

Thanks,
Kate


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Kate,

Probably Ed and Peter will jump in soon after my post and they can tell you a lot abouth eartheaters. I keep Guianacara my selves who used to be in the eartheater group. You might want to go with the smaller more peacefully species like the Guianacara, G orangeheads and G pindare. Those are the smaller more peaceful geo's. I keep Guianacara with head and tail light tetras and didn't lost a single tetra to them. I also have abouth 9 apisto's in with them in a 90 gallon which does have the same footprint as yours.

The aquascape,....plants aren't needed and in my expirience they are a poor choice becouse they get dug up or be molested by the fish. The fish do need sand but be careful,.....they need sand with a round and not sharp grain and without a high calcium level. Beach sand is not suitable and save way to go is pool filter sand or river sand. The defenately will apreciate a lot of wood. Some species do spawn on wood or a flat rock but best is to go with one or two (3 to 4 inch) river rocks.

I'm short in time right now but I will be back. I hope this is a start.

Ruurd


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## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

Hi Ruurd,

Thanks for the quick response.

I would deffinetly like to go with the more peaceful species because after all of the aggression I have been dealing with in my African tank, I have lost my patience for it. Guianacara, G orangeheads and G pindare are all very pretty. I am hoping that I can find them at my LFS since I will be trading my Africans in for store credit. How many could I keep in my tank? I like the idea of adding apistos with them as well.

The sand that I have in my tank is Quickrete Playsand.... will that work okay? For some reason Pool Filter Sand is impossible to find in my area. I would really like to avoid switching out the substrate if I can avoid it.

Thanks,
Kate


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Quikrete Sand is silica based, so it shouldn't raise your hardness at all. Which is good, if your water is similiar to what mine was when I lived in Oceanside!! It's not quite as smooth as Poolfilter Sand or 3m, but it shouldn't be bad. Lots of people keep eartheaters on the play sand.

For decorating, I would do a U shape ... driftwood and river stones along the sides and back, leaving a large area open for their sifting pleasure. You can always put plants that root onto the driftwood like Java fern and Anubias.



Dutch Dude said:


> I keep Guianacara my selves who used to be in the eartheater group.


They are back in the family *DD*!! Kullander did DNA studies on them and moved them back into the Geophagine family, despite lacking the modified gill arch that was the diagnostic for the family!!! I hate DNA!!! *mutters*


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi there,

Here an example of a biotope tank for Guianacara. This is how it started with some floating plants, two echinodorus and pennyworth. Later on the fish started to tear appart new leaves on the plants so the plants ended up algea covered becouse of all the old damaged leafs. The floatingplants look nice and dim the light but dirt get easely trapped inbetween the root systems. It can be done but it will take some extra effort on maintanance. The roots of the plants can be covered with stones of at least 2 inch. Smaller stones will be moved by the fish. If they start molesting the new leaves there is nothing you can do abouth it. Only way would be hard leaved plants like Anubia like Dwarfpike already mentioned.










This is how the same set up looks now. Very basic but it contains all the fish need and is easy to maintain. In the midle an open space were they can sift sand and a lot of wood piled up against the background creating caves for the guianacara and apisto's and plenty of sight breaks, with small open aria's inbetween. Different to most other eartheaters Guianacara are cave breeders. Notice them underneath the large parts of wood on the left and in the midle.










I'll bet you like the first set up better. :wink: I do to but since I keep discus, cleaning and maintanace became a larger issue and a lot of work. Thats why all of my tanks contain only a few plants or non at all and the set ups are based on the needs of the fish and not on what I like to see.

There are more smaler eartheaters and some of them like the Biotodoma cupid are more agresive. If you stick to the Guianacara and real (smaler) geophagus you will be fine with 5 or 6. The floorspace of the tank is to small for more and 5 is the minimum number for them to feel happy and save. Besides that they show much more social behaviour in a croup and thats part of the fun. The orangeheads will be the best availeble specie and most likely the Pindare the les availeble. Guianacara are not strong colored like most of the ear theaters but IMO they compensate in behaviour. I'll expect you will like the orangehaeds the best. Colorful, funny, active, not shy (like guianacara) and good availeble.

Dwarfpike,....he thanks bud! Good to hear the Guianacara are back in the eartheater famely. I hope dr. Kullander finally kicks those Brasiliensis out becouse to many people expect them to be the peaceful geophagus while they can be realy mean fish. Thanks for the info Dwarfpike,.....you are realy a living breathing and moving encyclopedia aren't you :lol:


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## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

dwarfpike said:


> Quikrete Sand is silica based, so it shouldn't raise your hardness at all. Which is good, if your water is similiar to what mine was when I lived in Oceanside!! It's not quite as smooth as Poolfilter Sand or 3m, but it shouldn't be bad. Lots of people keep eartheaters on the play sand.
> 
> For decorating, I would do a U shape ... driftwood and river stones along the sides and back, leaving a large area open for their sifting pleasure. You can always put plants that root onto the driftwood like Java fern and Anubias.quote]
> 
> ...


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

Hi Kate,

I agree with all the advice from Ruurd and dwarfpike. Orange heads are a good option for you, they are colorful, active, hardy and peaceful fish. I kept 5 in a 75g for about 18 months and they did fine. Two pairs formed, and one male was extra but occasionally convinced a female to spawn with him :lol: The only drawback was that fry get snacked on eventually, but that's not a huge problem unless you really want to breed them and let them raise the fry naturally. You'll be fine fine with 4-6 in a 75g and if the possibility for an upgrade presents itself later then take it because a 6' tank does make the difference with breeding success.

I keep Gold Tetra with mine and for more than two years only lost 1 or 2, and after fry get to 1" they don't snack on them anymore either, so they are safe with small tankmates. The only exception being _Otocinclus_, the males eat/kill those, I think because they bother them when they clean the stones that they want to breed on.

Similar to Ruurd I used to keep 1-2 large Echinodrus sp. in their tank, but now I don't maintain any plants and only use driftwood and some large river stones. It's easier to maintain and opens up more space too. Play sand is fine.

Goodluck :thumb:

Ed


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## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

Dutch Dude said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Here an example of a biotope tank for Guianacara. This is how it started with some floating plants, two echinodorus and pennyworth. Later on the fish started to tear appart new leaves on the plants so the plants ended up algea covered becouse of all the old damaged leafs. The floatingplants look nice and dim the light but dirt get easely trapped inbetween the root systems. It can be done but it will take some extra effort on maintanance. The roots of the plants can be covered with stones of at least 2 inch. Smaller stones will be moved by the fish. If they start molesting the new leaves there is nothing you can do abouth it. Only way would be hard leaved plants like Anubia like Dwarfpike already mentioned.
> 
> ...


Wow your tank is beautiful  I really like the driftwood. I am going to try to find some driftwood from some private sellers locally because it is so expensive at my LFS. I tend to like my tanks planted, but that's actually the reason that I don't keep discus. Unless you buy them as adults (which is so expensive), keeping them in a planted tank just doesn't work. I think I will try the anubias and java fern tied to rocks and driftwood like DwarfPike suggested. I have some duckweed in one of my other tanks, and I could easily scoop some out and add it into this tank as a floating plant.

I really do think I like the Orange Heads the best. 5-6 sounds like a good number. I am hoping that my LFS will get some in at some point. I can order them online, but since I am trading in my Africans, I would like to use my credit towards the Geos. What sort of dithers should I put with them? I don't love the idea of tetras, but if I found some that I liked enough I might consider them. I have rainbows for dithers in my other tanks though, so would they also work in this setup? I would also like to add a school of cories and a fancy pleco or two.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Make sure the wood is good qualety and not just a part of a tree. If you buy wood from people who used it in their tanks I suggest to boil it to make sure you won't bring in illnesses and bugs. It took me quit some time to collect the right pieces. You still can order on line and use the credits at the lfs for food, wood or equipment.

I'm not experienced on rainbows but they might be good tankmates. Maybe someone with more experience on the rainbows mixed with cichlids can jump in. Cories and pleco's wont be a problem. Dought cories might snack a posible spawn later on.


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi... You have been given great advice from the experts so I will just add a little note. 
I got 6 orangehead babies from Ed and combined them with 6 dime size baby angels in a 120 gallon 4x2x2.. I love the tank.. That was several months ago... The angels are now all about dollar size and the largest oh is abiout 3 1/2 inches.. It is a very colorful active tank.. It has pool filter sand (your sand will work great as well) and lots of driftwood and some large flat stones. I too recently removed my plants :lol: :lol: ... funny how we are all getting to the point where the fishes needs and maintenance requirements play a larger part in the aesthetics of our tanks.. However I love my tank even without the plants.. It gives the growing fish more room (and of course more visibility for me) and is easier to take care of.. You will not regret getting orangeheads. I suggest you obtain the orangeheads from a source other than the lfs and just use your credit there for maintenance items and such.. You will get better quality usually that way unless your lfs has a great source.... 
I.ve had rainbows in the past.. I would think that the smaller ones might work well.. some of the larger ones like the reds might be took big and aggressive.. I keep the oh tank at 82 and depending on the strain, your rainbows might be ok at that temp.. the ones I had (boesmani and turqs and praecox) were fine with those temps.. It all depends on whether you want to keep the tank as a SA tank or not.. I tried the tetras (lemon) and didn't like the look but they are a nice tetra. as are the golds..
Good luck whatever you decide to do.. HTH Sue


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## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

edburress said:


> Hi Kate,
> 
> I agree with all the advice from Ruurd and dwarfpike. Orange heads are a good option for you, they are colorful, active, hardy and peaceful fish. I kept 5 in a 75g for about 18 months and they did fine. Two pairs formed, and one male was extra but occasionally convinced a female to spawn with him :lol: The only drawback was that fry get snacked on eventually, but that's not a huge problem unless you really want to breed them and let them raise the fry naturally. You'll be fine fine with 4-6 in a 75g and if the possibility for an upgrade presents itself later then take it because a 6' tank does make the difference with breeding success.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice Ed 

I'm not interested in growing out the fry at this point, so if the fry get eaten it will actually be doing me a favor, lol. I'm glad to know that the smaller tetras have worked out with yours. I was considering a group of cardinals or rummynose, but I didn't want to pay the money if there was a good chance they would be eaten.


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## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

DiscusQueen said:


> Hi... You have been given great advice from the experts so I will just add a little note.
> I got 6 orangehead babies from Ed and combined them with 6 dime size baby angels in a 120 gallon 4x2x2.. I love the tank.. That was several months ago... The angels are now all about dollar size and the largest oh is abiout 3 1/2 inches.. It is a very colorful active tank.. It has pool filter sand (your sand will work great as well) and lots of driftwood and some large flat stones. I too recently removed my plants :lol: :lol: ... funny how we are all getting to the point where the fishes needs and maintenance requirements play a larger part in the aesthetics of our tanks.. However I love my tank even without the plants.. It gives the growing fish more room (and of course more visibility for me) and is easier to take care of.. You will not regret getting orangeheads. I suggest you obtain the orangeheads from a source other than the lfs and just use your credit there for maintenance items and such.. You will get better quality usually that way unless your lfs has a great source....
> I.ve had rainbows in the past.. I would think that the smaller ones might work well.. some of the larger ones like the reds might be took big and aggressive.. I keep the oh tank at 82 and depending on the strain, your rainbows might be ok at that temp.. the ones I had (boesmani and turqs and praecox) were fine with those temps.. It all depends on whether you want to keep the tank as a SA tank or not.. I tried the tetras (lemon) and didn't like the look but they are a nice tetra. as are the golds..
> Good luck whatever you decide to do.. HTH Sue


Thanks for all of the feedback Sue 

I wonder if there is room for a pair of angels in my tank..... probably not, lol, but I would love it if I could include them. I recently lost all of my angels to a disease outbreak of what I think was discus plague. It was devistating.

I don't necessarily need to have plants in my tank. I have several other planted tanks, so I already have my plant fix covered, lol.

Do you know of any reputable sources that I could order the orange heads from? I just had a really bad experience with an internet order, so I want to be careful who I order from.

Keeping the water at 82 won't be a problem. My house is hot in the summer so most of my tanks stay at that temp even without a heater. I have boesmani, turquoise, and praecox rainbows in another tank of mine, so I might consider another kind of dither fish. I'm not nuts about tetras, but I might try cardinals or rummynoses. I also thought of adding a large school of threadfin rainbows to the tank which might be cool.


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## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

I found out that my LFS has some diamond tetras in right now. They look pretty awesome as adults, and from what I have read, I they should be tollerant of the higher temps. I think I'll probably go with a school of them with the orange heads so that I have something different since I have rainbows in my other tank.

I have a couple more questions:

1) What other tankmates go well with the orange heads? I know that apistogramma species were mentioned above? What about cories? I would like to keep the tank pretty simple, but I love cories so I would like to add some if I could. Also, is there room for a pair of angels?

2) It might be a little while until I can fill the tank with driftwood. I have a few small pieces that I can throw in there. If I leave some of the rocks in the tank, will that provide some cover and shelter for the fish so that they don't feel too exposed? I know it doesn't look the greatest, but I figured it might be better than an empty tank for the time being.


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi again Kate... I sent you a pm about sources of ohs.
I don't know how you are scaping your tank soooo... I think I would just have the orangeheads and either a large school of the tetras or the angels not both.. Although the ohs are fairly slow growing, once the ohs start to color up and gain some bulk they are pretty much gonna fill up the bottom of your tank.. Angels, as you know grow pretty fast so if you go for the oh/angel combo get small angels.. If you go tetras and ohs, I would get a large school of the tetras.. at least a dozen...probably more.. they don't add much to the bioload... If they are all young fish, the tank might look a bit empty at first.. at that point you might want to add some small angels knowing that down the line you would probably be pulling all but the pair or maybe all..
A lot depends on your tank maintenance and filtration as well.. both geos and angels really like clean water.... I've had bns in the tank with no problems so fancy small plecos would be fine I would think.. Never tried with a corie mix.. Tried with blue rams and they were fine together and I imagine bolivians would be ok just lower the temps to around 81.. Bolivians are happiest in groups so it would depend on how many ohs you got.. alot is gonna depend on your scape.. The ohs are very active so I think I would wait til you got those before adding too many other distractions and see how you like the tank setup. HTH Sue.


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## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

DiscusQueen said:


> Hi again Kate... I sent you a pm about sources of ohs.
> I don't know how you are scaping your tank soooo... I think I would just have the orangeheads and either a large school of the tetras or the angels not both.. Although the ohs are fairly slow growing, once the ohs start to color up and gain some bulk they are pretty much gonna fill up the bottom of your tank.. Angels, as you know grow pretty fast so if you go for the oh/angel combo get small angels.. If you go tetras and ohs, I would get a large school of the tetras.. at least a dozen...probably more.. they don't add much to the bioload... If they are all young fish, the tank might look a bit empty at first.. at that point you might want to add some small angels knowing that down the line you would probably be pulling all but the pair or maybe all..
> A lot depends on your tank maintenance and filtration as well.. both geos and angels really like clean water.... I've had bns in the tank with no problems so fancy small plecos would be fine I would think.. Never tried with a corie mix.. Tried with blue rams and they were fine together and I imagine bolivians would be ok just lower the temps to around 81.. Bolivians are happiest in groups so it would depend on how many ohs you got.. alot is gonna depend on your scape.. The ohs are very active so I think I would wait til you got those before adding too many other distractions and see how you like the tank setup. HTH Sue.


Hi Sue,

Thanks for the PM 

I figured that about the angels, lol. I think given my budget constraints at the moment, that I don't want to add any fish to the setup that I will potentially have to get rid of down the road. I am just going to start the tank out with a school of diamond tetras and 6 Geo OH. I don't want anything to detract from the geo's natural behaviors. I think I want to add a gold nugget pleco to the tank down the line, but I need to wait until I have the money since they are pretty pricey. I don't know if I'll need the school of cories because as far as I know, Geos are good about getting leftover food in the substrate...am I right? I am going to start scaping the tank this weekend, so hopefully I'll have some pics for you guys so that I can get some feedback. Thanks for everything so far!

Kate


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

Hi Kate,

Just a few comments on some of your questions...



ktluvsfish said:


> It might be a little while until I can fill the tank with driftwood. I have a few small pieces that I can throw in there. If I leave some of the rocks in the tank, will that provide some cover and shelter for the fish so that they don't feel too exposed?


I wouldn't worry about getting the scape finished in a hurry. Orange heads are really active and they don't seek shelter often, and prefer to swim in the open, so it won't be a problem. I think the ideal territory is a large, smooth river stone that is more or less in the open. Driftwood is better to divide territories and provide shelter for females or smaller fish. Ruurds tank is great example, with the driftwood along the back of the tank, leaving the front mostly open. The Guianacara make use of the caves, but Orange Heads would be more interested in the stones in the foreground or the flatter surfaces of the driftwood. It's a good scape for both preferences.



ktluvsfish said:


> I don't know if I'll need the school of cories because as far as I know, Geos are good about getting leftover food in the substrate...am I right?


Yes! Even better than the Corydoras I think. I keep a colony of Corydoras, but I've never mixed them with Geos. I think the higher temperatures the Geos prefer might be a little hot for most species. I keep fry and youngsters at 81*, but after they are grown and mature 82-84* seems to be appreciated. In contrast, my colony of Corydoras is kept at 72*. Apart from that the Geos feed so actively and eagerly, I think it would be hard to get adequate amounts of food to the Corydoras. I'm sure hundreds of people keep the two together but IMO it's a bit of a stretch logistically.

I hope that helps, I'm looking forward to the pictures of the tank :thumb:

Ed


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi again... Got your pm..  I agree with Ed.. =D> =D> . Don't worry about the cories they are not needed. The ohs are as aggressive as the angels when it comes to chow time.. it's a feeding frenzy and hardly anything makes it to the bottom.. and even that is quickly found and eaten by the ohs. Can't wait to see pics of the tank opcorn: opcorn: . Sue


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## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

Hi Sue and Ed 

Thanks for the feedback. I am re-homing my Africans tomorrow and saturday, so hopefully I'll be able to put my order in soon  I'll post pics of the setup once I get everything cleared out of the tank, and I'll deffinetly post pics once I get my fish as well.

Thanks again for all the help!


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