# Need help finding replacement trim



## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

I just brought home a 60"W x 18"D (x 20"T) used tank, not sure if it listed as a 95 or 100G. A previous owner (genius in my book) removed the center support on the top trim. I have been trying to find a place that sells the trim with center support but have been striking out. I don't know who the manufacturer is because the only thing on the tank is a QC sticker with no company name or marking. The glass is 1/2".

I got it from my brother-in-law who just couldn't fit it in his new apartment. The guy they bought it from had removed the center. I personally don't feel comfortable using the tank until the proper trim is back in place, the bottom trim could use replacing as well.

Does anyone have a link or a hint of a direction for me to look for a replacement trim?


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

Most local fish shops can order trim for you for tanks. I had my local shop get me a top trim for one of my tanks not that long ago.


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

You know what it looks like and what function it performs, so make it yourself (MIY). Then let us know how you did it 

Joe


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Only one manufacturer makes a tank in that size. It's the Marineland 120XH. The frame is a one piece injection mold. Adding any other type of brace will not be as strong as the one piece brace. You should be able to contact any dealer that carries Marineland tanks and be able to purchase a replacement.

I am betting the inspection sticker has a little anchor symbol on it. That's a Perfecto/Marineland trademark.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

Thanks Steve, I will call on LFS today. They carried the 125 I bought in march.

Joe, if I had the molds and injection machine, I would make one myself......lol. This is probably one area I don't think I could improve on.

Narwhal, the sticker has only "QC" a number and "OK" on it. When I first looked at it I hoped for a manufacturer marking. But that is good info for anyone else trying to figure out whose tank they bought used.

I'll see what price I get from the LFS today. I am shooting for March to get everything into operation. Must work slowly and precisely so wife allows final product to be seen.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

OK, strike outs everywhere here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I called most of the aquarium stores and only 1 could order the frames, BUT ONLY if I know the manufacturer. Really, it shouldn't be this difficult.

I looked a little closer at the frame and found that it isn't even one piece. It is 4 pieces with mitered corners to fit together like wood trim on a picture frame.

After striking out, I decided to look a little closer at a cut-to-size universal frame I had seen when doing a web search.
http://www.aquariumframeswholesale.com/custom-frames (style 1)

Tell me if I am wrong, but as long as there are center supports and the corners keep everything square it should be acceptable.

I have seen this tank in operation for the last 2 years and know the owners had it operating for several years before that. I never thought I was going to get it, so I never measured for bowing while they had it filled. I was told the person from whom they bought it had turtles in it and that is why he removed the center brace. Makes no sense, but ok.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Ok, that makes a difference.

Since the tank is not made from an injection molded frame that means it's an extruded and mitered frame. Only one company made (notice I said "made") tanks with extruded frames in that size and it was Oceanic. Which was also right in your area back before 2006 too. Oceanic tanks did not have a plastic center brace (not something you can add to an extruded frame) and they used a glass center brace. The tank is probably an Oceanic 110. They would take a piece of glass about 12" wide and 3/8" thick and silicone it front to back in the middle to serve as a center brace.

All you have to do is find a piece of glass the right size and silicone it into place.

Andy


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

After looking at some pics of used Oceanic 110's, I am 99% sure you are right about the manufacturer.

Would a piece of 3/8" plate glass cut to 12"x17" (I measured the end piece) be what I need? Or should I go to a glass shop?

Also, it does not have a top. I want to do an all glass top. Since the glass will be sitting horizontally, what thickness is recommended since it will stretch the ~59" and ~17"? I plan on having the glass shop cut out 2x hinged openings for maintenance and feeding access. I'll drill the top for the intake and return lines. Without a top, this tank evaporates 1/4 of its volume in a week or less.

Any other tidbits of advice would be helpful.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

You will want to take a measurement of the inside but you are probably pretty close at 12" x 17". A glass shop can cut it and you will want them to grind and polish the edges so you don't cut yourself.

You don't want a full length piece of glass for the lid as it will be too heavy and will bow in the middle. Cut it in half. Use the center brace as a rest stop for the two halves. You will need to add a little strip of wood or plastic for the glass to rest on and serve as a stop to keep the two halves of the glass canopy in place.

Andy


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

If the tank had trim made from 4 pieces it never had a centre brace. It may not need one. There are still tanks being made without them. Regardless, the above mentioned idea of adding a glass centre brace is a good idea, that will allow the use of separate tops for either side.
If you are still looking for a frame, do a search for Over The Edge.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

BillD

That just isn't true. Any Oceanic aquarium longer than 36" long had a glass center brace. 72" long tanks had an 18-24" wide glass center brace. Oceanic didn't use injection molded frames until after they were bought by All Glass and then only on the bowfronts (same frame as the AGA version). Oceanic 110's (which is extremely likely what this tank is) were made with a glass center brace.

You had to special order them "brick" style to get them made without a center brace. This meant going up to 3/4" glass on a tank like a 180 or 215. Not sure what thickness a brick 110 would use.

Andy


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

It hasn't been determined it is an Oceanic. Regardless, there are still tanks being built without centre braces. The local Big Al's has a bunch of them, 6' long 120s. These tanks are 22" tall and are made with 1/2" glass. That makes them taller than the tank in question, and longer.So, if the trim is cut away in the centre to accommodate a glass brace , it may have had one. Not seeing the tank, we are only speculating.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

I'll put up some pics later today when I get out of the office. There is a spot on the back frame that makes me think it may not have been extruded. I'll take a shot of the a corner and the spot on the back.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

The pics will probably confirm it but in all likelihood this is an Oceanic tank and it did at one time have a glass center brace. The most likely explanation is usually the correct one. In this case we have an older tank, in an unusual size, with a mitered frame. It makes the most sense that this tank is the one made by one of the two companies that made that size, the only company that used a mitered frame in that size, and that was based in the same city as the OP.

Are the tanks at Big Al's rimless? Because it seem kind of strange to have a 6' tank that is 22" tall with 1/2" thick glass without some kind of brace. No way I would trust that tank. Are you sure they don't have a perimeter frame made out of glass as a stiffener? I would like to see pics of that tank. I bet it bows like crazy when full. Couldn't find any when I tried to google it.

Andy


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

I am sure they don't have euro bracing. They have about 12 of them, with mitred trim pieces. I almost bought one of the older ones (for $50) and had a good look at it. There were lots of companies that built tanks that way, and a few that still do. Over the years, hundreds of companies manufacturing tanks have come and gone, including the original manufacturer of all glass tanks, which began here, in a nearby town.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Bill,

I work for the original manufacturer of all glass aquariums. AGA was started in Cudahy, Wisconsin by Jerry and Roger Ritzow. They were the first ones to make the modern aquarium with silicone and plastic frames. Before then they were made with steel frames and putty. They sold the business to Central Garden and Pet and I work in their Franklin, WI facility.

While I am sure there are probably hundreds of garage manufacturers of aquariums that have come and gone. There are only a few national/regional manufacturers that have come and gone over the years. It's not that big of an industry.

Andy


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

When did AGA start?


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I do not know the exact date on when they started selling out of the garage behind the Pizza shop (there was a picture of the garage on the wall in Plant #1). Here is an article with more information. Unfortunately, it doesn't say when the brothers started the business. I do have an example of one of their original extrusion framed tanks sitting in storage. Best guess would be mid to late '60's. Couldn't be before 1963 when GE introduced the SCS1200 silicone which was the first silicone able to be used as a replacement for putty in sealing tanks.

http://www.petage.com/a-look-back-at-th ... -aquarium/


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

Ok, here are pics of the tank and specific concern spots.

Full tank view:


Top corner of the tank:


Suspect spot on the back frame in the exact center:

It looks to me like something was cut off.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Well this certainly is an interesting looking tank.

I have to admit I am wrong and this is neither an Oceanic or a Perfecto tank.

It's also a very strange frame. Do you see how the inner ledge wraps around in the corner shot? This can only be done on an extrusion tool. No way this could be injection molded. And yet you see the detail of where the brace was cut away and that certainly looks like it is an injection molded part. No way that could be extruded along with the rest of the frame.

I am betting that there are two parts to this frame. An injection molded part and then an extruded part and they are probably bonded together.

Very strange looking tank. Unfortunately, I have never run across this type of construction before but I can tell you for sure that it is not from Oceanic, Aqueon, Perfecto/Marineland, Glasscages, Odell, Juwell, or Deep Ocean.

Your best bet is probably still to insert a glass center brace.
Andy


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Bill,
One of my colleagues researched it and AGA started in 1967.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

We had them here in early 60s. We have a club member who has been in the hobby since 1948. He has built hundreds of custom tanks and started several LFS. He tells me that a local , who was using silicone in his work, stumbled onto the idea of using it to build an aquarium. He acquired a couple of partners and they started Crystal aquarium. The first ones had no trim. The resulting broken bottoms from people setting them onto a piece of gravel led to a wooden frame to raise the bottom pane. This was later changed to plastic but there was still no flanged trim for the top. I have a couple of 10s from this era that still hold water. I will check back with him to see if I can get a date, but I believe the first attempts date back to the late 50s. I do know that the first tank I built was made using Dow silicone, circa 1967. That tank still holds water even though it is very badly assembled and the butt joints are full of air bubbles.
I do recall some ads in very old TFHs, of several manufacturers, none of which are still around.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

No way it could be the late 1950's. RTV silicone wasn't even invented until the early 1960's. GE and Dow didn't start distributing until 1962-3. Even then the first customers were the construction and aircraft industry as a specialty product.

But we can agree to disagree.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

I will try to find out the details, because I recall getting my first all glass tank prior to 1965. In fact I still have it.


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## chances14 (Aug 20, 2013)

dsiple3 said:


> Ok, here are pics of the tank and specific concern spots.
> 
> Full tank view:
> 
> ...


looks to me like somebody just took some old one piece frames and cut them to fit the tank. i have seen countless tanks with trim similar to this. You usually find it on tanks that have uncommon sizes that you wouldn't be very liklely to find one piece frames for



Narwhal72 said:


> Well this certainly is an interesting looking tank.
> 
> I have to admit I am wrong and this is neither an Oceanic or a Perfecto tank.
> 
> ...


You can't determine the brand of tank by simply looking at the frame imo. As the op said, this tank has been owned by more than one person, which means that one of those previous owners could have very well taken the old frame off and replaced it with what we see now


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

> You can't determine the brand of tank by simply looking at the frame imo.


If you have been in the industry for 25 years you can. There are only a handful of manufacturers that use plastic frames. Each one has a unique profile and unique colors which are pretty easy to recognize if you know what you are looking for. But I will admit that this one is puzzling as it is a mish mash of different production methods. This is the first time where I haven't been correct on my initial ID.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

The individual pieces of the frame (corner to corner) all appear to be 1 continuous part. I have looked at some pics of Oceanics around the web and all appear to look exactly the same. Even down to the thickness of the facing, in this case and many others, the wood looking trim. Along the internal lip are pieces that have been added by someone to extend it for some sort of top.

The only thing that is giving trouble is the spot on the back and front trim where a center brace appears to have been removed. But there are 4 well fitted mitered pieces to make the frame.


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## chances14 (Aug 20, 2013)

Narwhal72 said:


> > You can't determine the brand of tank by simply looking at the frame imo.
> 
> 
> If you have been in the industry for 25 years you can. There are only a handful of manufacturers that use plastic frames. Each one has a unique profile and unique colors which are pretty easy to recognize if you know what you are looking for. But I will admit that this one is puzzling as it is a mish mash of different production methods. This is the first time where I haven't been correct on my initial ID.


i have been in this industry for over 40 years and i have acquired several different frames over the years. Can you identify them? Quiz time 

Frame 1



























Frame 2


















Frame 3


















Frame 4


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## chances14 (Aug 20, 2013)

dsiple3 said:


> The individual pieces of the frame (corner to corner) all appear to be 1 continuous part. I have looked at some pics of Oceanics around the web and all appear to look exactly the same. Even down to the thickness of the facing, in this case and many others, the wood looking trim. Along the internal lip are pieces that have been added by someone to extend it for some sort of top.
> 
> The only thing that is giving trouble is the spot on the back and front trim where a center brace appears to have been removed. But there are 4 well fitted mitered pieces to make the frame.


it;s hard to tell from those pictures if the pieces are continuous, as someone who is good with mitering would be able to make it appear as just one piece. I know people who can very easily make extruded pieces appear as one piece frames. I would have to see a closer up view of the pieces on the corners and in the middle to see if their is a seam or not


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Too Easy.

Over The Edge. Aquarium frame wholesaler out of Michigan. Only manufacturer to use that asymmetrical notch out on the frame lips. That's the dead giveaway.

Not sure what picture you are looking at but it's very easy to see that these are extruded and miter cut frames.
1. Picture of the corner clearly shows the seam.
2. (And the most important) is that the cross section of the lip shows that is hollow. Physically impossible to do in an injection molded frame. It has to be an extruded frame.

Andy


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Let me clarify a bit.

the black frames with the center braces are Over The Edge.

The Oak and walnut frames are tougher. The grain looks like Perfecto's grain pattern. But Perfecto would have molded the oak one in brown plastic not black. Plus that notch out in the corner is not right for them. I am not so sure so I am going to say O'dell. O'dell is the only one that would put the oak foil over top of black plastic that I know of.

Andy

Andy


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

dsiple

Here is why I don't think it's an Oceanic tank. If you look at the cut away shot of the corner you can see that hollow core to the inner lip. Oceanic used what was called a closed cell foam to make their frames. When you cut them in cross section, the center would look like a solid material filled with small bubbles in the plastic. That hollow core shouldn't be there. They also used a glass center brace and not a plastic one.

This appears to be an injection molded frame and brace with an extruded frame overlaid over it. It's a very unusual design.


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## chances14 (Aug 20, 2013)

Narwhal72 said:


> Let me clarify a bit.
> 
> the black frames with the center braces are Over The Edge.
> 
> ...


you are correct that Over The Edge Sells the black frames

However the black frames are produced in dies that were made by california customs aquariums (CCA), one of the biggest glass tank manufacturers in the great lakes area in the 90's and early 00's. I believe CCA sold off their tank business to RJ Ray distributing and sold the dies to what is now Over The Edge. The dark woodgrain frame was produced by amerhest plastics inc (API), which was around even before all-glass was formed back in the 60's. The light woodgrain frame is also made by CCA. The woodgrain on both of those frames was actually put on by a buddy of mine who has a woodgrainer. But i have also seen people simply use a woodgrain tape on frames that on quick glance looks just like the woodgrain that is put on by a woodgrainer machine.

Funnily enough, the dies designed by CCA were almost a carbon copy of the Amherst dies because i used to have some of their other old frames and they looked just like the ones produced by CCA

But that's my point, anyone can disguise the framing and put it on any tank, which is why using the frame to determine the tank manufacturer is unreliable imo


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## chances14 (Aug 20, 2013)

Narwhal72 said:


> Not sure what picture you are looking at but it's very easy to see that these are extruded and miter cut frames.
> 1. Picture of the corner clearly shows the seam.
> 2. (And the most important) is that the cross section of the lip shows that is hollow. Physically impossible to do in an injection molded frame. It has to be an extruded frame.
> 
> Andy


yes i know that you can see the seams on the corners. i was referring to the long straight pieces, which given the pictures shown, you cannot really tell if there is seam or not in the middle of the straight pieces. Anyone who is good at mitering could easily disguise the seams on the straights in the middle


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

I'll get some more detailed pics later today. I just had a chance to look at the locations where the center brace was attached. I need to get measurements as well, but it looks like the brace was attached after the frame molded/extruded.

The reason I think it is an add on and not done by the factory is that there is a hole drilled in the front frame that does not appear professionally done (off center). On the back frame, I see space between the nub that is left and the actual frame. The front has no additional support strips that are on the back and sides. I believe these were added as well to support a slightly under sized top. I also see what appears to sloppy gluing at the points where the brace was attached.

For Chance, I'll get some close ups of the straight parts and corners. I'll even flip it over to get pics of the bottom as well, since the top still has crud (from previous owner) and some scratches from HOBs and lights.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

You don't know the whole story.

California Customs Aquariums was a distributor of AGA aquariums prior to manufacturing their own. They actually learned how to build tanks after a tour of our manufacturing facility and started making their own shortly thereafter. Hence we don't give tours to industry people any longer. That story is kind of a sore point around here that I heard from the old timers. Of course CCA was just a small distributor and never even got close to AGA's volumes. To say they were one of the largest in the Great Lakes area isn't saying much if there were only two manufacturers and they were second to AGA.

Of course now you just educated me on the Amherst frames which I admit I did not know about. Since I now know what to look for as those corner cutouts are unique, I can now identify Perfecto/Marineland, AGA/Aqueon, Oceanic, Odell, Deep Ocean, Juwell, Amherst, Over the Edge/CCA, Island, Deep Blue, and Hagen aquariums on sight. So you actually just proved my point that you *can* identify tank manufacturers from the frame for me. Thanks.

Why would there be a seam on a straight piece? It's extruded. You just run it out as long as you need it before cutting. No reason to seam on a straight unless you were cobbling together a frame from short pieces. No manufacturer would do that in production.


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## chances14 (Aug 20, 2013)

Narwhal72 said:


> You don't know the whole story.
> 
> California Customs Aquariums was a distributor of AGA aquariums prior to manufacturing their own. They actually learned how to build tanks after a tour of our manufacturing facility and started making their own shortly thereafter. Hence we don't give tours to industry people any longer. That story is kind of a sore point around here that I heard from the old timers. Of course CCA was just a small distributor and never even got close to AGA's volumes. To say they were one of the largest in the Great Lakes area isn't saying much if there were only two manufacturers and they were second to AGA.


Maybe you are talking about a different company because i personally know the owner of what was the original California custom aquariums and that is definitely not the correct story. They originally started building wooden and fiber glass aquariums in california. Then he moved back to michigan, opening a store in the detroit area called califonia customs aquariums. They orignally started purchasing 100% of his glass aquariums from what is known as great lakes aquariums, who are still around today. Then as years went by, they started building their own aquariums, purchasing their frames from amherst plastics. At the time of deciding to build aquariums, they hired a guy from a company called house of aquariums. I think his name was dave. He showed them how to properly build tanks out of glass and plastic frames. As time went on, they decided to build their own dies and became a manufacture and distributors in the detroit and surrounding areas in the great lakes. As time went on they sold off their aquarium part to the business and decided to just be a distributor of plastic aquarium parts. They eventually sold off their plastic parts division to Over The Edge

Btw, there were dozens of aquarium manufactures in the great lakes areas back in the 90's



> Of course now you just educated me on the Amherst frames which I admit I did not know about. Since I now know what to look for as those corner cutouts are unique, I can now identify Perfecto/Marineland, AGA/Aqueon, Oceanic, Odell, Deep Ocean, Juwell, Amherst, Over the Edge/CCA, Island, Deep Blue, and Hagen aquariums on sight. So you actually just proved my point that you *can* identify tank manufacturers from the frame for me. Thanks.


not really but agree to disagree. Like i said someone could easily take a frame from somebody else and put it on their old tank.

Why would there be a seam on a straight piece? It's extruded. You just run it out as long as you need it before cutting. No reason to seam on a straight unless you were cobbling together a frame from short pieces. No manufacturer would do that in production.[/quote]

of course the manufacture wouldn't do that in production, but i have seen people do some weird stuff with framing when it comes to DIY


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Maybe it's Great Lakes aquarium then. All I know is that it was a distributor in Michigan who later went into making their own glass aquariums shortly after a visit to the AGA plant. I put the two together because frankly I had never heard of any other manufacturers in the area.

I am sure there were probably a bunch of small guys making them out of their garage but in the national stage there were only a handful of major manufacturers.



> Like i said someone could easily take a frame from somebody else and put it on their old tank


 But the point is that you could identify who made the frame. And whoever made the frame is likely the company who made the tank. Over the Edge is the only company that makes frames for anyone that I have ever heard of. I can't imagine it's a big business for them. As a percentage of the aquariums that are out there it's miniscule. And it would not be that easy if the tanks were dimensionally different.


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## chances14 (Aug 20, 2013)

Narwhal72 said:


> Maybe it's Great Lakes aquarium then. All I know is that it was a distributor in Michigan who later went into making their own glass aquariums shortly after a visit to the AGA plant. I put the two together because frankly I had never heard of any other manufacturers in the area.
> 
> I am sure there were probably a bunch of small guys making them out of their garage but in the national stage there were only a handful of major manufacturers


nationally sure, but i do know that one time cca had over 30 accounts in michigan alone that built tanks from their plastic frames. I would argue they were more popular than aga in their hey day in Michigan and the surrounding areas at least. They also supplied o'dell (AKA as modern) and glasscages with frames.

Aquarium manufacturing was big business back in the day but the big guys are pretty much all that's left now thanks to the high costs of making aquariums now to where the smaller companies can't compete, and the fact that the bug guys can roll out their dollar per gallon sales



> Like i said someone could easily take a frame from somebody else and put it on their old tank


 But the point is that you could identify who made the frame. And whoever made the frame is likely the company who made the tank. Over the Edge is the only company that makes frames for anyone that I have ever heard of. I can't imagine it's a big business for them. As a percentage of the aquariums that are out there it's miniscule. And it would not be that easy if the tanks were dimensionally different.[/quote]

fair enough. but my point was that you can't 100% guarantee that a tank is made by a certain manufacturer just by looking at the frame currently on the tank, when there is always the possibility that the frame currently on the tank is not the original frame.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Nothing is ever 100% guaranteed. But you can be 99% sure.

It's definitely an unusual situation and something very localized. Never heard of anything like that outside of Michigan. Oceanic never made available frames (not even as replacements). You could always buy them from AGA/Aqueon or Perfecto but they weren't cheap. Definitely wouldn't be cost effective to build your own tank with them.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

Lots of pics for those interested.

Top Front frame:




I removed the added piece on the left side:


Front brace piece removed with drilled alignment hole. You can see where the brace was glued in:


Rear Brace mount. You can see where glue got on the back brace as well. Sloppy to me. I could also put a staple behind the remains of the mount:


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

And the Bottom corner trim:





Bottom trim:




And the QC Sticker if it means anything:


Piece that broke off bottom frame (just for grins or investigation purposes):



There it is in all its not so clean glory. I'm not 100% sure that some of this shows attempted repairs or not.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I was not able to find the date silicone was introduced, (sources always say early twentieth century) but I did find out that it was used to attach the heat ablation tiles to the space shuttle and that it was invented by an English chemist, Fredrick Kipping, (1863 - 1949). I believe Herbert Axelrod was sued in 1962 for producing silicone sealed tanks by an earlier all glass tank manufacturer he had stolen trade secrets from. The first all glass aquariums were simply very large rectangular glass jars. I have a few of them and the largest of mine holds about ten gallons. Those jars of course have no frames.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

This is a tough one I still have no clue as there are some inconsistencies with the most common brands.

It's definitely an extruded and miter cut frame. Thanks for removing that add on piece as that was really confusing. And it's obvious the brace was a glued on after assembly.

I am 90% sure this is an old Oceanic tank. There are just a couple of inconsistencies that trouble me.

1. The Oceanic Medium Oak color foil (which this is a dead ringer for) was applied to a brown extruded plastic not a black one.
2. The lack of a glass center brace. However this could have fallen out and been removed by the consumer sometime in the past. Possibly replaced with the plastic one which was glued in?
3. The cross section of the frame looks like standard ABS and not closed cell foam. But that is hard to tell unless you look in the corners where the plastic is thicker for the tell tale tiny bubbles.

But in favor of the Oceanic we have the following:
1. The uncommon tank size.
2. Your area is consistent with Oceanic's distribution 
3. Extruded and miter cut frame (unusual for many manufacturers)
4. the woodgrain matches Oceanic Medium Oak
5. Frame profile is the same as Oceanic

My guess is that this tank is a very old one and possibly Oceanic was only making their extrusions in black and then foiling them the colors. Eventually Oceanic would extrude in 4 different colors with 5 different foils.

I think I am going to leave it at that.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

Sooooo....basically, I am left sort of where I started. With a tank that has no manufacturer replacement trim.

As I see it, from this discussion:
1) If I want to replace the frame, Over The Edge (Custom frame Style 1) is the only manufactured option. ($43)
2) I could leave the trim on and add a glass brace (Unsure of the price)
3) If no deflection of glass when filled, let be as is. (Free)

Option 3 is my least desired option.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Yep looks like it.

That's not a bad price for a custom frame. But make sure you measure well and that the frame can fit your thickness of glass too.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

dsiple3 said:


> Sooooo....basically, I am left sort of where I started. With a tank that has no manufacturer replacement trim.
> 
> As I see it, from this discussion:
> 1) If I want to replace the frame, Over The Edge (Custom frame Style 1) is the only manufactured option. ($43)
> ...


 I have done the Over the Edge option. It was very user friendly.

I have done the glass brace. On an old tank, it is hard to clean the glass well enough to be sure of a good seal. Fill the tank about halfway and measure for the brace then. Otherwise there is too much stress on the brace and one side will pop. It does not take much to pop the seal. It's like the old trick with a thick metro phonebook. You can tear a 3" thick book in half by starting on the edge with just a few pages on the bias.If you make the measurement when the tank is empty, the bow will be on both sides of the brace's width. Building in a slight bow keeps the stress from finding a starting point to expand from.

I have had 90 and 75 gallon tanks built with no center brace and very thick glass. They don't bow. But when I moved last year I sold them to a herp hobbyist.The 90 was built in 1972 with a 50 year warranty.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

Mcdaphnia said:


> I have had 90 and 75 gallon tanks built with no center brace and very thick glass. They don't bow. But when I moved last year I sold them to a herp hobbyist.The 90 was built in 1972 with a 50 year warranty.


What does very thick glass mean to you? This glass is 1/2" with a 60"x18" pane on front and back. It seems to have handled the stresses over the years without breaking. The previous owner had the tank 10-11 years without it breaking. My concern is a cover to minimize evaporation. This brings me to comments by both Mcdaphnia and Narwhal in this thread.

Putting a glass center brace in, as narwhal suggested, would break the expanse a glass top would be required to cover. But as Mcdaphnia eluded to, cleaning the existing glass well enough to get a good seal would be somewhat difficult. I don't really mind leaving out a center brace as long as the front and back panes don't bow too much.

I guess an option would be an Acrylic top, as long as it is thick enough to not drop into the tank. For that, wouldn't the cost be more than an OTE frame and smaller tops? I need to control/minimize evaporation.

I'll fill the tank to half tomorrow after I get back from trading in some fish to get measurements of glass. Then I'll fill it all the way to measure glass deflection.

Any more suggestions would be helpful to figure out what direction is best for me to go.

Thank to all who have helped so far.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

dsiple3 said:


> What does very thick glass mean to you? This glass is 1/2" with a 60"x18" pane on front and back. It seems to have handled the stresses over the years without breaking. The previous owner had the tank 10-11 years without it breaking. My concern is a cover to minimize evaporation. This brings me to comments by both Mcdaphnia and Narwhal in this thread.
> 
> Putting a glass center brace in, as narwhal suggested, would break the expanse a glass top would be required to cover. But as Mcdaphnia eluded to, cleaning the existing glass well enough to get a good seal would be somewhat difficult. I don't really mind leaving out a center brace as long as the front and back panes don't bow too much.
> 
> ...


 Well to me in terms of aquariums, very thick glass means 5/8ths inch or thicker. And in terms of those two tanks in particular, 5/8ths inch.

Drop the center brace down the thickness of the proposed top.

On left and right, install thinner braces along the sides at the same level as the center brace.

Clean the areas with a single edge razor blade in a holder you can get for cleaning windows of paint. (Both available at paint stores) Then clean the areas with a past made of table salt and white vinegar. Razor blade again and clean again. Let it sit for at least a day. By this time some thin residue of old silicone may be visible. Razor blade again, then clean with a cloth dipped in acetone or alcohol. Let it dry completely and wear gloves so skin oils (fingerprints) do not ruin the seal. Install the braces as below, keeping the seam thickness the same front and back of the braces.

Place an SPF 2 by 4 cut to slightly open the glass walls, under where the center brace will go. You need space to place and finish the silicone, so the board should be low enough to allow the applicator to fit at an angle. Frames, boards, tape, or other materials can be use to keep the braces in position as the silicone cures. Read your silicone tube to see how long it takes for the brand you use to reach full bond strength.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

I just measured the center of the top when it was filled (18 3/8"). I can find only a 1/8" difference from measuring when it is empty (18 1/4").

Is 1/8" something I should be concerned with?

As noted before, the glass is 1/2" thick all around the tank.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

dsiple3 said:


> I just measured the center of the top when it was filled (18 3/8"). I can find only a 1/8" difference from measuring when it is empty (18 1/4").
> 
> Is 1/8" something I should be concerned with?
> 
> As noted before, the glass is 1/2" thick all around the tank.


The glass should bow slightly. I would not be concerned with 1/8".


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Since you are measuring across the tank, that's only a 16th inch on each side.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

For the top, I'm thinking of just getting 4 pieces of 1/4" glass cut and edge finished 14 1/2" X 18 1/4". Inside of the front and back of the current trims are 58 1/2". I can just put some adhesive handles on them and slide over the top of each other when accessing the tank.

Now to plan the project and plumbing access before I get the glass and such. I guess that will be a separate thread for the actual build required.


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