# Now I want Frontosa....



## CichMomma (Mar 3, 2010)

Hey all! I've got my Malawi Mbuna tank all set up and running since March. Fish are doing great, growing and real healthy. :dancing: :fish: :thumb:

The problem is that I now have an itch to do a Frontosa tank.  The even bigger problem is talking my husband into it somehow. :-?

I have just very recently started researching, and looking at photos of the different species, and I really like the look/coloring of the Mpimbwe. Other than the library of information here and on specific Frontosa websites, does anyone have any good recommendations for more info? I'm like a sponge when I get an itch for a different type of fish......love it. Also, any reason why I should shy away from Mpimbwe's and look towards another variety??

Thanks,
Renee


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## kriskm (Dec 1, 2009)

I don't have any other sources of info to recommend (I got all the info I ever needed, and a whole lot more, from cyphos.com and frontosa.com). I would recommend using these sites to thoroughly research the source of your fish. Whichever type you choose, if you get high quality fry, you'll end up with beautiful fish. I would also say that whether they're from a dealer or a hobbyist, just make sure it's someone with a great reputation for high quality fronts. You can search on YouTube to get an even better idea of the look and temperament of the different types. Mpimbwe can have a lot of blue in them, they seem to be less skittish than some other types, and easier to breed than the zaires. The zaires have a deeper blue to purple color, and are spectacular to watch, but harder to breed. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the difference in their price. When you consider how long you will probably own these fish (they can easily live to be 15 years or more), $100 more to make sure you get the ones you want from the start is not a lot of money.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

The two sites mentioned will be good resources and also, don't forget to look at the frontosa corner of this site 

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/frontosa_corner.php

All cyphos are beautiful fish. Take your time and find the species that pleases you the most.

My preference is for Zaires but I started with Tanzanians (Mpimbwe).

Here's a few old pics of my F1 Mpimbwe



























And a few pics of my Zaires (wild caught Kapampa)


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## CichMomma (Mar 3, 2010)

Thank you both for replying to my post. 

I have checked out both Cyphos.com and Frontosa.com so I suppose that has provided me with a good place to start. :thumb:

Razzo!! Your fish are B-E-A-U-tiful!!! Maybe I want Zaire's instead??!!! Dangit! I just thought I might like the personality of the Mpimbwe a little better.....not so shy, more social with me like my dwarf Mbuna's.

My "fish guy" I order from can get F1 Mpimbwe juvies for $25 a piece. I will also email him and inquire about Zaire juvies. Thanks for providing the link here. I will be reading through that and researching what is a good number to start with, etc.

Thanks for your help!!


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## bull420 (Jul 7, 2010)

CichMomma said:


> My "fish guy" I order from can get F1 Mpimbwe juvies for $25 a piece. I will also email him and inquire about Zaire juvies. Thanks for providing the link here. I will be reading through that and researching what is a good number to start with, etc.
> 
> Thanks for your help!!


F1 Mpimbwe ususally goes for about $10-$15 dollars a piece depending on size. in the $25-35 range, you can get F1 zaires. but of course you have to pay for shipping


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## kriskm (Dec 1, 2009)

I agree that $25 each for mpimbwe is a lot. Even with shipping, you should be able to get them for less from an online retailer or trusted hobbyist ($10-15 each sounds about right, plus $50 in shipping for 10 or so, and they're still only $15-20 each). If you like the color of the zaires, they're worth the extra money. The two sites mentioned above are a good source for quality sellers, as is the Retailers Review section on this site.

And yes, Razzo's fish are awesome.


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## CichMomma (Mar 3, 2010)

kriskm said:


> I agree that $25 each for mpimbwe is a lot. Even with shipping, you should be able to get them for less from an online retailer or trusted hobbyist ($10-15 each sounds about right, plus $50 in shipping for 10 or so, and they're still only $15-20 each). If you like the color of the zaires, they're worth the extra money. The two sites mentioned above are a good source for quality sellers, as is the Retailers Review section on this site.
> 
> And yes, Razzo's fish are awesome.


Thank you for your reply. My "fish guy" IS an online retailer I found on this site that many people here use and is well known and trusted and has great quality fish. Interesting that he has them for $25 when a more common price is $10-$15???? :-? Curiouser and curiouser.

After looking more at the Zaire's, I think I am leaning more towards them. They are all beautiful though. :drooling:


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

$25 for a Tanz is overpriced (IMHO). I recommend Ron R (in this forum) - he has some great looking Moba and he has a very an excellent reputation with the frontosa community. If you like Kapampa, let me know, I can set you up with another person with outstading quality fish and an equally outstanding reputation.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=218174

You should be able to score some amazing F1 Zaires (Kapmapa, Moba, Kitumba, etc.) for around $30 to $35 each.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.

Good luck on your quest.

Russ


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

BTW: Zaires will warm up to you too. I had my wild caught Kaps eating out of my hand.


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## CichMomma (Mar 3, 2010)

Razzo said:


> $25 for a Tanz is overpriced (IMHO). I recommend Ron R (in this forum) - he has some great looking Moba and he has a very an excellent reputation with the frontosa community. If you like Kapampa, let me know, I can set you up with another person with outstading quality fish and an equally outstanding reputation.
> 
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=218174
> 
> ...


Thank you Russ.

I am currently trying to research the difference between the Moba and the Kapampa and they seem VERY similar. I'm pretty sure I have decided that the Mpimbwe, although beautiful, has a lighter color blue than I prefer. I want the "wow" factor when I look at my set-up. Or future set-up that is. :thumb: Still currently researching though.

Ron does have very beautiful specimens but he is in Texas and, unfortunately, does not ship. 

Would you mind pm'ing me your contact info for Kapampa juvies if they ship state to state? Thanks in advance!

Renee

eta: spelling changes, oops.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

PM sent.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Kaps have more of a wow factor than Mpimbwe, IMO. If you can get somewhere to see them in person, that would be best. I ordered Kipili and then saw Moba in person. I became hooked on the Blue Zaire. Sold my Kipili and now have Mikula And Kapampa.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Floridagirl said:


> Kaps have more of a wow factor than Mpimbwe, IMO. If you can get somewhere to see them in person, that would be best. I ordered Kipili and then saw Moba in person. I became hooked on the Blue Zaire. Sold my Kipili and now have Mikula And Kapampa.


Very common occurance - I have watched many people via internet forums go "cheap" and one day (sometimes pretty quick) go get rid of their non Zaire and go Zaire.

Now, with that being said, there is nothing wrong with a tanz. They are beautiful too. Tons of experienced frontosa keepers out there that LOVE their Tanz. My advice is to take your time. Look at tons of pictures and decide what you really want. If its a money problem, be patient, save and wait.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Here's some pics of Zee's Tanz. He is a good photographer with a good camera and some beautiful Tanz. These pics are of his last alpha "Brutus" (Brutus has since passed) - an amazing frontosa and a Tanz! Tanz cyphos are beautiful too!


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## CichMomma (Mar 3, 2010)

Wow, those are very pretty!! Hubby and I are still discussing this "big tank" that I want. I am more interested in having Blue Zaires in a new tank but he likes EBJD's!! :roll: We are currently working that out and I have been researching both species. :roll:


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

CichMomma said:


> Wow, those are very pretty!! Hubby and I are still discussing this "big tank" that I want. I am more interested in having Blue Zaires in a new tank but he likes EBJD's!! :roll: We are currently working that out and I have been researching both species. :roll:


I considered EBJD a long time ago and a knowledgable friend talked me out of them. To be honest, can't quite recall what the issue was. My memory is vague (and most likely wrong), but it might have had some thing to do with being hybridized too much and health problems??? I am sure somebody will correct me.

I can speak about fronts though: they are very healthy, big, beautiful, graceful and live a long time.

Enjoy your quest (whatever you get).

Russ


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## ZeeMan (Aug 16, 2010)

EBJD's are actually a true morph of a regular JD

they used to be culled as a weak and weird color baby

generally theyre less aggressive then a regular JD and most say they dont get a large as a regular

from my understanding... its a natural occurence (I may be wrong)
I dont claim to understand the genetics or how common they are... much less if any actually survive in the wild

interesting topic though


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## CichMomma (Mar 3, 2010)

ZeeMan said:


> EBJD's are actually a true morph of a regular JD
> 
> they used to be culled as a weak and weird color baby
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input, Zee. Yes these are all things that I have read about the EBJD. We are still trying to decide what route to take. :roll:


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## bachelor (May 16, 2009)

EBJ's are naturally occuring, though none have been seen in the wild, so it's thought they are simply always too weak to compete with their sibblings. Same case in the tank. I actually know the premier EBJ breeder in the northwest and we had a long talk about them. To breed them you need to breed an EBJ with an EBJ gene carrier that does not display the pattern. If you simply breed two EBJ's it results in 100% fry fatality. IF you bred an EBJ with a regular dempsey you get 25% EBJ fry, but by breeding EBJ to an EBJ gene carrier you get 50%. You need to separate the EBJ's quickly or they will all be predated and out competed for food by their sibblings. They are in fact proned to health problems and a common deformity is a concave forehead. The breeder I spoke with has all but bred out this defect.

Now that EBJ science 101 is complete, I would go with Frontosa over EBJ's in a heart beat. Simply more personality, more active, and more graceful. I have kept allot of Dempsey's and love them, but Frontosa are truly Amazing, and act as a colony. Dempseys are out for themselves, and like to hide in caves all day, and come out at night when the lights are off.

Razzo has some great Kampampa from very good true genes. Razzo, it's "Me from Frontosa.com btw 

If you change your mind and want to go back to Mpimbwe feel free to PM me  Mwahaahaa

Truthfully I keep both Zaire and Mpimbwe, and it's a toss up. The Mpimbwe are more out going, and on darker substrate can in fact achieve some pretty deep blues, and truthfully a Mpimbwe male vs. Zaire male is a Tie in my opinion. Mpimbwe girls do tend to be a bit less colorful though, however there are exceptions, and in my colony I have three or four extremely blue females. Zaire females have pretty much the exact same blue as the males, and that is one of the reasons why they are three times the price, also they are harder to collect and harder to breed. 
Either variant you can't go wrong.


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## CichMomma (Mar 3, 2010)

Thanks for your reply bachelor. I appreciate the input! :thumb:

When we are ready to set up a big tank, I am 99% sure I will be going with Kapampa's.


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