# Need Recommendations for new tank build



## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Hey guys, I am starting a new tank build, currently looking for one. I have a spot picked out in my home for it, I'm going with a 60x24x24, 150 gallon. For those of you who don't know I currently have a 50 gallon corner tank setup with the following stock, which will be transferred to the new tank:

(3) yellow labs, 1m, 2f
(2) white labs, 2f
(4) socolofi, 4f
(6) rusties, 2m, 4f (I am going to rehome the second male)

I am looking for recommendations on additional fish to add. I really want to add a barred species and I don't know a lot about barred species. Any recommendations welcome... :thumb:


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Even when the tank owner does not intend to produce any fry, I've seen some remarkably ugly hybrids between labs and barred mbuna that grew up in the tank with the adults and proved difficult to remove. Tilapia buttikofferi would not do that since it's a substrate spawner, but it would soon grow big enough to wipe out the other fish. You would have to keep trading it out for a smaller one. Metriaclima sp. "elongatus chailosi" is a smaller barred mbuna that might be less prone to boss the tank. Regardless of species, the dominant male in the entire tank seems to do most or all of the breeding. As long as you don't pass on hybrids and have a tank with some kind of fish predator, there are worse things than finding hybrid fry in your tank.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Even when the tank owner does not intend to produce any fry, I've seen some remarkably ugly hybrids between labs and barred mbuna that grew up in the tank with the adults and proved difficult to remove. Tilapia buttikofferi would not do that since it's a substrate spawner, but it would soon grow big enough to wipe out the other fish. You would have to keep trading it out for a smaller one. Metriaclima sp. "elongatus chailosi" is a smaller barred mbuna that might be less prone to boss the tank. Regardless of species, the dominant male in the entire tank seems to do most or all of the breeding. As long as you don't pass on hybrids and have a tank with some kind of fish predator, there are worse things than finding hybrid fry in your tank.


Not planning to keep fry and I will probably get a few multipunctata or something like that to control fry.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

So I went to Petco yesterday and they had 75 gallon Aqueon tanks on sale for 50% off, I couldn't pass it up. I got one for $90! 

I really wanted a 5 foot tank but there is no way I could ignore this deal. Especially considering that I would have had to spend probably 10 times the amount of money to get a 5 footer since they aren't really a standard size. Anyway I'm going to build a stand now and set this tank up.

I have a question: does anyone know if the 75 gallon Aqueon tanks have tempered bottom panels? I am going to drill this tank either way but I'd like to drill the bottom of it and install an internal overflow because where I'm putting this tank its going to be right up against a wall. I'd rather not drill the back panel unless I don't have a choice.


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## afchlid (Sep 9, 2017)

I just picked up a 55 Aqueon and it has tempered glass on the bottom. It should be stamped on the glass if it is tempered... pretty sure it is.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

afchlid said:


> I just picked up a 55 Aqueon and it has tempered glass on the bottom. It should be stamped on the glass if it is tempered... pretty sure it is.


Mine's not stamped, it doesn't say anything. But I checked Aqueon's website and it looks like everything 55 gallon and over (4 ft long or more) has tempered bottom glass.


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

On the main page of Aqueon there is this......

Aqueon Glass Aquariums Tempered vs. Non Tempered 
Due to glass availability, Central Aquatics may temporarily substitute regular or non-tempered glass panels with tempered glass panels. Anytime a glass substitution is made, a sticker will be adhered to the aquarium bottom as a precaution to the end user. Please Note: Any aquarium that is altered in any way (i.e. - drilled, attempted to be drilled, the center brace removed) by an individual outside of Central Aquatics, will deem the warranty null and void.

So from the sounds of the above, if there is no sticker under the bottom of the tank then it is probably not tempered. I wouldn't go by tank size to judge if it's tempered either. I had a 7ft 265 tank a few year ago which you would think would be tempered glass bottom due to size, but after taking a hammer to it to remove it from my basement I can say 100% without a doubt none of the panels were tempered on that big tank.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Steve C said:


> On the main page of Aqueon there is this......
> 
> Aqueon Glass Aquariums Tempered vs. Non Tempered
> Due to glass availability, Central Aquatics may temporarily substitute regular or non-tempered glass panels with tempered glass panels. Anytime a glass substitution is made, a sticker will be adhered to the aquarium bottom as a precaution to the end user. Please Note: Any aquarium that is altered in any way (i.e. - drilled, attempted to be drilled, the center brace removed) by an individual outside of Central Aquatics, will deem the warranty null and void.
> ...


Maybe this is why they were 50% off at Petco. :-? Thanks for the info.

Given this information I am going to build the stand to fully support the bottom glass. That means a full sheet of plywood on top of the stand plus additional 1/8" sheets to fit inside the plastic bracing so the bottom glass is supported directly by plywood underneath. No way I am trusting a non tempered 1/2" glass panel to support 1000+ pounds.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I believe that will void your warranty.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> I believe that will void your warranty.


why would that be? he is just putting extra support directly under the glass and not changing or removing any part(s) of the tank, just curious cuz that is just something i would also think to do...



gillmanjr said:


> plus additional 1/8" sheets to fit inside the plastic bracing so the bottom glass is supported directly by plywood underneath. No way I am trusting a non tempered 1/2" glass panel to support 1000+ pounds.


i just might not do it with the plywood directly, i would put something else in between the plywood ant the glass something soft in case of any imperfections or sharp points in the plywood, just a thought...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Talk to the manufacturer. The correct way to support tanks is to support the frame and not touch the glass at all.
Check out how tank stands are built.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Drilling the tank is going to void my warranty anyway guys. I don't care, I only paid $90 for it.

I'm not going to risk drilling the bottom panel unless I get 100% confirmation that it isn't tempered, but I'm definitely drilling the back panel for an overflow. Kind of sucks that I'll have to have the tank 4-5" off the wall for the overflow but whatever. I don't like canisters plus I want to have a refugium section in my sump to have a deep sand bed and plants for nitrate removal.

Also, for the support, I am going to have 1/8" rubber sheet between the plywood and glass. I understand why the manufacturer tells you not to support the glass, its because if the sheet is too thick the tanks full weight would be supported by the glass and non by the frame, that would be a problem. It'll be critical that the sheet inside the plastic frame is exactly the correct thickness so that the weight is sitting both on the plastic frame AND the glass.


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

The reason glass tanks are only supported by the frame and not the entire bottom glass is to avoid and pressure points. On acrylic tanks the acrylic itself has a slight give to it so they need to be supported completely on the bottom. Glass tanks don't have much if any give at all to them glass so if you support the entire bottom with a piece of wood then since wood is not going to be 100% perfectly flat then you could run the risk of a pressure point on one spot of the tank bottom which could cause a breakage once it is filled and weight on it.

I understand you said you would fit the wood inside the frame so it was supported by both the tank bottom as well as plastic frame, but again wood is not a dead nuts level product, so you will run the risk of a pressure point so there's really no need to support the entire bottom no matter if it is tempered or untempered.

Just my .02 on it, whatever you decide on I hope it all works out well


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Seriously, you may not have taken any of my advice or anyone else's in the past, but this time you really should listen to what we are saying. You do not need to put any support under the bottom glass whatsoever. It's not designed to be supported like that and is going to stress the glass and the joints of the tank. You're going to end up with a leaking tank or worst case a flood if the bottom breaks. You really need to let the frame support the tank like it was designed to do in the first place. People have been setting up fish tanks this way for years, you're going to end up regretting it and it's completely unnecessary. Besides it's not going to be over 1000 pounds, it's only 625 pounds for a 75 gallon...


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Seriously, you may not have taken any of my advice or anyone else's in the past, but this time you really should listen to what we are saying. You do not need to put any support under the bottom glass whatsoever. It's not designed to be supported like that and is going to stress the glass and the joints of the tank. You're going to end up with a leaking tank or worst case a flood if the bottom breaks. You really need to let the frame support the tank like it was designed to do in the first place. People have been setting up fish tanks this way for years, you're going to end up regretting it and it's completely unnecessary. Besides it's not going to be over 1000 pounds, it's only 625 pounds for a 75 gallon...


625 pounds of water. Thats not what I'm concerned about. Of course tank manufacturer's design and build their tanks to support the water load. What about the hundreds of pounds of sand and rock that go into a Mbuna tank? All those rocks create pressure points as well. With due respect I'm an engineer, not an idiot. And I know how to build. If its done properly it'll be better than the cheap plastic frame. And as I already stated I'm using 1/8" neoprene sheet between the plywood and glass, AND I'm going to use sanded plywood. There will be no pressure points on the bottom.

Also, for your information. A 48"x18" sheet of non tempered, 1/2" thick glass, supported at the edges and the middle (at 24"), will support a total load of about 800 pounds. This can be calculated. For tempered glass that number is more than 4000 pounds (a tremendous amount, the silicone and frame would fail way before the glass). If I knew the bottom of this tank was tempered I wouldn't even be thinking about this, but I DON'T.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

Narwhal72 is a member here and is or 
Was the following. 
Central Aquatics (Aqueon, Oceanic, Coralife, Kent, and Zilla)
Research and Development
Just read a lengthy post by him on another site regarding tank construction and support. Based on what I read I think the idea of using something to fill the gap is a mistake. Maybe he can chime in.


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

> All those rocks create pressure points as well


Right, but as an engineer you should already know that the multiple pressure points of the rocks are spread out over many different points, not to mention there is a lot less weight from a few rocks on each point touching the tank. Where as any difference in height of a panel under the bottom side of the tank is going to have the full weight of everything on it since it would be a single point.

No one is calling you an idiot gillmanjr, no need to get defensive for no reason. People are just trying to point out something that might cause you an issue down the road because you seem to be addressing something that has been a non issue in tanks for decades is all. If you plan to do it no matter what, which is sounds like you are, then hey more power to ya and I truly do hope it works well for you.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

I emailed Aqueon to find out if my tank has a tempered bottom panel or not. I'd rather not have to go through the trouble because doing what I suggested has to be done very carefully and precisely for the reasons stated here and I know that. If Aqueon tells me its tempered its a non issue.

Its never been a concern because usually tanks of this size have tempered bottom panels. Another poster on here suggested that maybe some of them aren't. The fact that they were 50% off would seem to support that. Hence why I'm concerned.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

You're ridiculously overthinking this and I don't know what kind of "engineer" you are but obviously you don't realize that rocks and sand displace water and generally displace close to their own weight in water. My 180 gallon Planet Aquariums tank has a un-tempered bottom and I have way more weight than you could ever remotely think about fitting in that 75 gallon. I'm not even an engineer and I know that your reasoning is wrong. 1/2" glass can tolerate 800 pounds of pressure when applied to one localized area not spread out. There's even YouTube videos of people stacking rocks in a 20 gallon tank trying to break it and couldn't. Glass aquariums are not designed to be supported across the bottom of the glass. It's simple engineering 101.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Hello gillmanjr,

If your tank has a tempered glass sticker on it, then it has at least one panel that is tempered glass. Usually this is the bottom but may also be the fronts. If it does not have a sticker then it is made with nontempered glass.

The decision to use tempered glass is generally made on a cost/availability issue. A tempered glass panel can generally be thinner than a nontempered panel. Thinner glass is generally more readily available and lower cost than thicker glass as the glass foundry generally runs more thinner glass (for architectural or window applications) than they do thicker glass. In many instances, it is lower cost to use tempered glass than the equivalent strength plate glass. It would be incorrect to say that "most tanks this size are made with tempered glass" If you included reef ready tanks, most tanks in the 75-125 gallon range are made with untempered glass.

In regards to your stand design. Your aquarium's entire weight is supported by the perimeter frame. Because of the layer of foam on top the plywood, I do not think you will have any irregularities, as the foam would absorb any imperfections in the wood or between the glass and foam and avoid pressure points. My only concern would be if the structure inside the perimeter frame were higher than the frame itself. In which case you would have the side walls of the aquarium pushing down on the edges of the glass while the center was being pushed up from underneath. This could create a lot of perimeter stress. It's an unusual situation and not something that we have ever tested to see what would happen but it does strike me as something abnormal and probably best to be avoided. In any regard, the extra structure is completely unnecessary and a typical perimeter support is all that is necessary.

The only time a solid top stand is required is when used with a floating bottom aquarium. In this style of construction (generally used with frameless tanks) the bottom is inset within the side panels. In this case the only thing holding the bottom up is the band of silicone between the edges and the side panels. Without a solid top stand (or something that supports further in from the edge of the aquarium), the bottom would sag down and separate at the seams.

In regards to the weight of the rocks in the aquarium. I have completely filled an aquarium with Texas Holey rock to prove just this point and never had an issue. Unfortunately, I could not locate the pictures I had of the setup for this post. But All Glass Aquarium/Aqueon and Oceanic have been building aquariums and stands this way for close to 50 years and it has never been an issue.

Lastly, you should not conflate promotional sale prices with any drop in quality. The Aqueon tanks bought on promotion at Petco (Dollar per gallon?) are no less quality than the tanks you would find elsewhere at everyday prices.

Thank you,
Andy Hudson
Central Aquatics 
R&D


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

Thank you Narwhal72 for the clarification on tanks and required stands. Wishing that cf would allow more input from manufacturers or recognized experts on important issues such as this. As long as we know up front I see no harm.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Narwhal72 said:


> Hello gillmanjr,
> 
> If your tank has a tempered glass sticker on it, then it has at least one panel that is tempered glass. Usually this is the bottom but may also be the fronts. If it does not have a sticker then it is made with nontempered glass.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this information. I appreciate it.

Also, here is the email response I got from Aqueon:



> Hello Louis,
> Thanks for the email. An Aqueon 75 gallon aquarium DOES have a tempered bottom. The side panels, may or may not be tempered depending on glass availability at the time of manufacture. You can also test for tempered glass using a polarized lens, youtube has some videos that show how to do this.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Josh


Now I need to find out if the back panel is tempered before I try to drill it.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Just out of curiousity gillmanjr,

Are you planning on installing a sump or wet/dry filter? Or were you planning on drilling to install a canister filter?


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Narwhal72 said:


> Just out of curiousity gillmanjr,
> 
> Are you planning on installing a sump or wet/dry filter? Or were you planning on drilling to install a canister filter?


Sump. I am running a sump with my current 50 gallon tank so I have a lot of the stuff already. With this sump I want to a have a refugium section with a deep sand bed and plants. Probably going to go with an Aqueon 38 gallon tank for the sump.

I just prefer sumps, I like the added system volume, aeration, higher flow rates, hidden equipment, easier maintenance. Just a personal preference. Of course if the back panel of my tank is tempered I may have no choice but to go with a canister.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

There's always the siphon overflow systems if you're dead set on using a sump


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

OK. Good luck with the setup.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

I finished the framing for the stand this weekend. I still have to put the plywood in the bottom and I'm putting a full sheet across the top just to tie everything together. Now comes the finish work and doors, I'm not 100% sure yet how I'm going to finish it, I'm still deciding. I built the frame using all screws, no nails, and wood glue in a few locations. I used a box and a half of 3" screws and about two dozen 4" screws. There are also two 6" long, #14 lag screws that go through the front and back and reach all the way into the center brace. You can see the screw head in the pictures, its the big one right in the middle of the upper front span. I used those because I'm leaving the whole front open, as you see it in the photos, so I have unrestricted access to the sump. I also used different types of wood as you will probably notice in the photos. For example, the two 2x6s used for the front span are premium grade douglas fir which are stronger than pine, they are also more expensive and a lot heavier. Worth it though.

FYI If anyone wants the plan for this stand I can provide it, I have a sketch that I did in MS paint. The good thing about this frame is that it can be assembled without using any metal ties or brackets with the only exception being the back center column, there is no choice but to use flat tie plates to hold that in place, but the rest of it can be assembled without any. And to be honest the back center column isn't even necessary, this thing is easily strong enough to hold a 75 gallon without it. It would be strong enough to hold a 72", 150 gallon tank without center columns.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

I got a cheap pair of polarized sunglasses today and just did a test with my laptop. ALL of the panels on this tank are tempered. Not just the bottom and front/back but even the side panels! I'm really annoyed. I have no choice but to use a canister, I'm not going to use a siphon overflow due to the risk and because they are thicker, I'd have to have the tank even farther from the wall. Going to buy an FX6 I guess.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

If you were planning on drilling the back panels you would have been further away from the wall than the canister would need. The bulkhead and drain T/elbow fitting will add about 4-5" to the back of the tank. A canister filter requires little more than the diameter of the tubing.

In any case, keeping the tank about 3" or more from a wall is a good idea. It reduces splashing and humidity from destroying the wall behind the tank.

Andy


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

What annoys me the most about this is I don't need the front of the stand to be open now. I built it to be open so I had unrestricted access to a sump, now that I'm not going to have a sump I don't need it open. I could have built the stand frame with a lot less lumber, it would have been way lighter than it is.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Well, The stand could have been built with a whole lot less lumber to begin with. It's way overbuilt for the tank anyways.

The quality of the carpentry work is outstanding. But it has enough support to stack a half dozen 75's on top of it. Let alone one.

Andy


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Whether something is overbuilt or not depends on the application, its also a matter of opinion to a certain extent. Realize that the difference between a 24" span and a 48" span is massive in terms of beam design (its not twice, far more in fact), which is why all the stands you see in stores for 48" tanks are supported in the center. Technically (from an engineering standpoint) two standard 2x6s is not enough to support a 75 gallon tank across an open 48" span. Now that doesn't mean it won't hold it, I have no doubt it would. It means that a professional engineer would not put his stamp on it because there isn't enough margin. When you are talking about something like this (or floors/roofs in building design), the design margins are large because they can be (weight doesn't matter).


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

With all due respect gillman,

Most aquarium stands have a center brace on 48" for aesthetic purposes and are generally made from much thinner material than 2x4's. I can name plenty of designs in the past or that are currently on the market that do not have a center brace (at least in the front).

In all likelihood, the aquarium frame is not even touching the stand in the middle. It's quite common to be able to slip a piece of paper between the frame and the top of the stand in the middle. In reality, only the 4 corners of the aquarium need to be supported evenly. So a center support brace is contributing nothing to supporting the aquarium. And neither is the beam running the length. It's just there to hold the corners together.

I did some quick calculations on the load capacity of your corners (2 x 2.6 and 1 x 2x4 with a 48" height using grade 1 douglas fir and 2012 NDS standard dimensions) and each corner has a load capacity of more than 16,000 lbs. Since the weight of level aquarium is distributed on the four corners evenly that means your aquarium stand has a maximum load capacity of 64,000 lbs. The weight of a 75 aquarium is about 800 lbs (more or less). That means your stand has a safety margin of 80x the load weight.

So the degree of safety margin one may engineer into a structure is a matter of opinion. But I think any engineer would agree that an 80x margin is excessive. But if that is what you are comfortable with more power to you. And like I said before, the quality of your carpentry is excellent. I am not nearly as precise with the stands I build for my fish room.

Andy


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Narwhal72 said:


> In all likelihood, the aquarium frame is not even touching the stand in the middle. It's quite common to be able to slip a piece of paper between the frame and the top of the stand in the middle. In reality, only the 4 corners of the aquarium need to be supported evenly. So a center support brace is contributing nothing to supporting the aquarium. And neither is the beam running the length. It's just there to hold the corners together.
> 
> Andy


If this is true and only the corners need to be supported than you are correct. But I designed and built the stand to support the entire frame of the aquarium, end to end and front to back, not just the corners. And btw you cannot slip a piece of paper under the middle of my tank while its on the stand. I planed and sanded the top of the frame before I put a piece of 1/2" sanded ply on top, which the tank now sits on. Its completely flat and level. Its the way I do things.

I do know that I have looked at a lot of used mass market stands on craigslist, etc. Most of them are less than 10 years old and falling apart in one way or another. Mine will be around a LONG LONG time. And I still have less money in it than one you get at a pet store. I already bought the finish wood for it and the total cost is still going to be about $250, even including the cost of screws. Totally worth it. A little bit of extra time and money equals a whole lot of piece of mind for a long time.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I had a manufactured stand for a 110 gallon tank that was made out of 1 bys and that thing was super lightweight and very sturdy. There's nothing wrong with the way you built your stand if that's how you wanted it. I think the issue here is that you keep figuring for total weight being focused on one given point instead of the weight being evenly distributed along the frame of the stand. Say for instance that the weight was only supported by the 4 corners, there would be around 225 pounds of force on all 4 corners. A single structural 2x4 can support well over 1000 lbs of vertical force and can support almost 400 pounds per linear foot.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I have no doubt that the stand is lower in cost than a store bought stand. Take labor, packaging, freight, and profit margin out of the equation and everything will be cheaper than store bought.

Again, kudos on the carpentry work. Just looking at your stand I could tell that you were a skilled carpenter. I figured you had probably planed the beams as any good carpenter would have done for furniture quality work. Not everyone has that capability.

Wish I had a planer/jointer.

Andy


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Narwhal72 said:


> I have no doubt that the stand is lower in cost than a store bought stand. Take labor, packaging, freight, and profit margin out of the equation and everything will be cheaper than store bought.
> 
> Again, kudos on the carpentry work. Just looking at your stand I could tell that you were a skilled carpenter. I figured you had probably planed the beams as any good carpenter would have done for furniture quality work. Not everyone has that capability.
> 
> ...


I just used a hand planer. I wish I had a big planer too. Don't have the space.

Just started the finish work this afternoon. Got one side done. It'll look OK, nothing spectacular. I didn't want to spend a ton of money so I am just using Poplar boards. Personally I like the coloring of poplar (the dark greenish stuff) but its really not stain grade wood. I'm going to stain it anyway though. Oak or Maple would have cost me over $500 just for the finish boards.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Heres the stand after finish boards, still working on the doors...


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

That looks really nice.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

nice very nice...

=D> =D> =D>


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Doors are done. Time for the finish work.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Looks really nice but personally I would change those hinges.

Typically those type of hinges the plate that attaches to the stand is concealed on the inside of the stand and the door is inset into the opening (flush with the stand).

For doors that are raised in front of the plane of the front panel there are hinges that mount either inside the side wall of the opening or have a narrower (and less noticeable) profile.

Andy


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I have the same type of hinges on my stand, the flat plate is supposed to attach to the door on the back side and the decorative side to the stand.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

I did the hinges like this on purpose, they allow the door to be opened all the way out (180 degrees). They are also self closing. Concealing them wouldn't work because the gaps around the door aren't big enough and I'm not going to remove that much wood, it'll look worse. I also can't use the totally concealed hinges that require a forstner bit hole because the doors aren't thick enough for that. Trust me I bought three different hinges and did a mock up with all of them, this is the way I want it, for both functionality and reliability. I don't mind the way it looks.


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## CeeJay (Aug 16, 2016)

Very nice work. I don't think you can build a better stand that's any more sturdy.

I wouldn't discount the over the back overflow for your sump. I use two of them and there pretty well bullet proof. Been running them for years.

I know you got this tank cheap and cost is always a concern but maybe you should have bought the tank you really wanted. For me I'm never happy with some thing I settle for. Sometimes spending more for something is just the right choice and that 60" tank would looked really great.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Thanks for the comments guys.

I have a question for any FX4 or FX6 owners: I just got mine in the mail today and I actually really like it. Seems like its going to be pretty awesome. But I do have one concern: the hose. Does this ribbed hose that comes with the FX4/6 last? The stuff seems really thin and cheap. I don't want to wake up one morning to a busted hose and water all over my house. I'd rather spend more money/time and pipe the system with vinyl and PVC if there is even a remote chance of this stuff leaking or cracking. Thanks


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Hi gillmanjr.

I used to have an FX6 on my 300 gallon cube tank. I replaced the ribbed tubing with 1" ID vinyl tubing. I also had the same concerns about the tubing. But more about the hose connectors than the tubing itself.

I no longer have that tank. But I never had any issues with the filter.

Andy


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

gillmanjr said:


> Thanks for the comments guys.
> 
> I have a question for any FX4 or FX6 owners: I just got mine in the mail today and I actually really like it. Seems like its going to be pretty awesome. But I do have one concern: the hose. Does this ribbed hose that comes with the FX4/6 last? The stuff seems really thin and cheap. I don't want to wake up one morning to a busted hose and water all over my house. I'd rather spend more money/time and pipe the system with vinyl and PVC if there is even a remote chance of this stuff leaking or cracking. Thanks


The ribbed tubing "looks" sketchy but believe me it is anything but weak. I've been using Fx5's for quite a few years now (have 3 currently running here) and with my ocd the ribbed tubing when I first got my first one concerned me as well. So I played around with it a bit and found it is actually extremely durable. So much so that on one of my used FX5's that had some vinyl hose on it that someone installed I ended up replacing with the proper ribbed hose. So don't let the ribbed hose worry you, it won't give you any issues at all.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Setup is well under way my friends. I should have the fish moved over by tomorrow...


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Looking good!

Quick question though, do you have enough clearance to lift the FX6 filter out of the tote when you need to do filter maintenance?


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Deeda said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Quick question though, do you have enough clearance to lift the FX6 filter out of the tote when you need to do filter maintenance?


Not straight out, it has to be tilted slightly, but not that much. I figure I'll drain a little bit of the water out into the tote and then take it out. Or if I find that its a *************** to do that I'll cut a slot out of the front of the tote so I can get the FX6 out straight.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

You can also use the drain feature on the FX6 to pump the water out before servicing the filter, much easier and a handy feature. Cutting a slot in the tote defeats the purpose of catching any water.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Deeda said:


> You can also use the drain feature on the FX6 to pump the water out before servicing the filter, much easier and a handy feature. Cutting a slot in the tote defeats the purpose of catching any water.


I wouldn't need to cut a full slot all the way down to the bottom, just like 2 inches off the top would be enough and I would be able to take the FX6 straight out without tilting it.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

I have it all up and running and just transferred the fish. I'll post a pic later once the water clears up. I also have to order the new light bar, haven't done that yet. Anyway I just noticed another thing about canister filters that I don't really like (yet another reason why I prefer sumps). There is a bunch of stuff floating on the surface of the water and it won't go away because there is no overflow. I have a massive amount of surface disruption for aeration but the stuff is still there because there is nowhere for it to go. Don't like that but there is nothing you can do about it I guess...


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

Stand looks good I really like the choice of stain finish on it a lot.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

While a sump is a very effective filters so are cannisters. Youshould give the tank time to settle. Don't judge until you have sufficient time to appraise things.
Cannister are the most used filter for a reason.. All the stuff that is floating will saturate and sink. No problems. 
You stand is outstanding btw. Agree about the stain. I'm assuming it was clear coated as well?


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Cyphound said:


> While a sump is a very effective filters so are cannisters. Youshould give the tank time to settle. Don't judge until you have sufficient time to appraise things.
> Cannister are the most used filter for a reason.. All the stuff that is floating will saturate and sink. No problems.
> You stand is outstanding btw. Agree about the stain. I'm assuming it was clear coated as well?


Yes two coats of satin polyurethane. I had a jar of black Minwax Polyshades which is stain + polyurethane combined but I didn't use it because it doesn't look the same. I used real black stain and then poly over it.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

gillmanjr said:


> Anyway I just noticed another thing about canister filters that I don't really like (yet another reason why I prefer sumps). There is a bunch of stuff floating on the surface of the water and it won't go away because there is no overflow.


only way i can thing for that for now is to just fish it out with a nt...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have never had stuff floating on the water will canisters...except baby MTS.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Final product, fish are loving it. They don't know what to do with all the space :lol:


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Looks really nice. Great job.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback and all the information you've provided.

I'm in the process of making a few final additions:

1. I ordered a new light. I went with a Current USA programmable LED system. I ordered the 24" model because I really like the way the lighting looks with the shadows on the sides. It should be arriving in the mail today or tomorrow.

2. I went to Petco yesterday and bought a bunch more Anubias for the tank. I now have like 8 large plants in the tank, they look great. I just hope the fish don't tear them up too much. The two that I have had for a month have been nibbled on but are still hanging in there.

3. I ordered 4 more fish for the tank. I decided to go with Jalo Afra Reefs, 1m 3f. They will be arriving in the mail on Saturday. I ordered them as mid size adults, 2-3". From the pics and videos I've seen online the male Jalos look really awesome and I think they'll be a nice addition to my tank. I may also remove one of my Rusty males since I'm pretty sure I have 2 of them. I'll just have to keep an eye on the tank for a while after the new additions. That'll be 18 or 19 total fish in my tank, with 3 or 4 males. I may also add a bottom feeder once this tank is established but I haven't decided on that yet.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

IME your anubias won't last long in that tank. The older leaves are tough and the mbuna can't damage them too badly. But the new shoots are softer and they tend to munch them down faster than they can grow. The older leaves eventually die off naturally and all you will be left with is a rhizome and some roots.

Of course that is just my experience.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Well that's not what I wanted to hear. Are there any plants you've had better experience with?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Since Mbuna are primarily herbivores, there's really not many plants they won't eat.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I agree with caldwell.

I have seen some tanks full of vallisneria with a few mbuna that are less herbivorous like Yellow Labs and Acei. But with any of the Metriaclima, Cynotilapia, or Pseudotropheus species I think they are too hard on the plants.

Andy


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

Hard to keep live plants with Mbuna. I've tried a variety of plants and only thing I ever had even a tad of luck with was larger anubias like Narwhal mentioned. My bigger anubias lasted about 6 months but eventually started getting chewed down to just the stems little by little. Last couple years I have been using silk plants from Micheals. They have a few that look pretty realistic there.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Steve C said:


> Hard to keep live plants with Mbuna. I've tried a variety of plants and only thing I ever had even a tad of luck with was larger anubias like Narwhal mentioned. My bigger anubias lasted about 6 months but eventually started getting chewed down to just the stems little by little. Last couple years I have been using silk plants from Micheals. They have a few that look pretty realistic there.


I don't like fake plants. I bought a couple but I just think they look stupid. Plus they don't do anything. The biggest reason I want the plants is for the water quality benefits. If they don't last I'll just go back to all rock.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

BTW this morning when I woke up I was laughing out loud when I looked in the new tank. One of my socolofis had apparently been up all night digging because there was literally a mountain of sand against the front glass that I promise you I didn't put there. He had almost completely buried the one java fern that I have in the tank, its about 6" tall. In the almost year that I've had these fish all of them combined haven't dug as much as this guy did last night. LOL =D>


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

gillmanjr said:


> Steve C said:
> 
> 
> > Hard to keep live plants with Mbuna. I've tried a variety of plants and only thing I ever had even a tad of luck with was larger anubias like Narwhal mentioned. My bigger anubias lasted about 6 months but eventually started getting chewed down to just the stems little by little. Last couple years I have been using silk plants from Micheals. They have a few that look pretty realistic there.
> ...


I'm not talking about normal fake plants, I'm very particular about my tanks and wouldn't use something in my show tanks that looked bad in any way. I'm talking about silk plants where you can't hardly tell the difference between them and real ones. Nothing fake nor stupid about those, but if all your concerned about is water quality benefits then don't bother with live plants because you would need to have a very heavily planted tank/organic soil/O2 injection etc etc which you don't have so you're not going to get any real benefits from just adding a handful of live plants. So just over filter and be done with it.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Do you guys have any recommendations for how I add the new fish when I get them on Saturday? This is the first time I am introducing new fish to this community. My current fish have all been together since they were small juvies and are all now nearly full grown, about a year old.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Steve C said:


> gillmanjr said:
> 
> 
> > Steve C said:
> ...


This is exactly right... You're especially not going to get any benefit from slow growing plants like anubias. The only way to get any benefit of "cleaner water" with plants is to have a lots of fast growing plants with high light and CO2 which lowers pH. This wouldn't be suitable for Mbuna because they would shred everything and you would end up having dirtier water with the excess waste and detritus. I know from experience about planted tanks by the way....


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

gillmanjr, i guess that what is in the red rectangle is a filter but what brand / model?...
is the green light the tank temp in leds? or just a green led bulb, cant tell even if a zoom in...
:-? :-? :-?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

joselepiu said:


> gillmanjr, i guess that what is in the red rectangle is a filter but what brand / model?...
> is the green light the tank temp in leds? or just a green led bulb, cant tell even if a zoom in...
> :-? :-? :-?


That's a heater you're seeing


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

When adding new fish to a community it's generally a good idea to rearrange the tank and also add a lot of fish at once. This way territories are disrupted and no single fish is the focus of aggression.

Since the tank is a new setup territories won't really be firmly established so you probably don't have to rearrange. Adding a bunch of fish will help. I would still be cautious about water quality though. You won't want to run into ammonia or nitrite issues with the aquarium barely established.

Be ready to change 50% of the water if you start seeing cloudiness or fish gasping.

Andy


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Narwhal72 said:


> When adding new fish to a community it's generally a good idea to rearrange the tank and also add a lot of fish at once. This way territories are disrupted and no single fish is the focus of aggression.
> 
> Since the tank is a new setup territories won't really be firmly established so you probably don't have to rearrange. Adding a bunch of fish will help. I would still be cautious about water quality though. You won't want to run into ammonia or nitrite issues with the aquarium barely established.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Filtration isn't a concern. I transfered all my bio media from my 50 gallon sump to the FX6. All of the media in the FX6 is already established, that includes a full box of Fluval ceramic rings, 500 ml of the Seachem media (forgot what it's called), half a brick of Marinepure that I cut to fit in the FX6 basket, and a bag of Seachem carbon. All of it had bacteria fully established on it. I didn't use any of the new media that came with the FX6, only the sponges.

I'm adding 4 fish, Jalo Afra Reefs, 1m 3f. They will be smaller than my current fish as well, I ordered smaller adults (2-3").


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Keep in mind that the bacteria in the aquarium itself (coating the rocks, gravel, plants,etc...) are many times the amount of bacteria in the filter. If that population isn't established you can still have problems.

That being said, 4 fish in a 75 isn't going to make a lot of difference.

Andy


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Narwhal72 said:


> Keep in mind that the bacteria in the aquarium itself (coating the rocks, gravel, plants,etc...) are many times the amount of bacteria in the filter. If that population isn't established you can still have problems.
> 
> That being said, 4 fish in a 75 isn't going to make a lot of difference.
> 
> Andy


I used the sand from my 50 gallon too. I added additional new sand but I transferred the old. However, that doesn't matter because I rinsed it all before I put it in the new tank, so all the bacteria that was on the old sand is dead now. You're right though, I didn't think about the sand bed, I'm going to test for ammonia tonight just to be safe.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

The bb MIGHT still be present in the substrate depending on how much rinsing you did. 
BTW the large marine pur blocks work well as nitrate reducers if hidden amongst your rockwork.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Cyphound said:


> The bb MIGHT still be present in the substrate depending on how much rinsing you did.
> BTW the large marine pur blocks work well as nitrate reducers if hidden amongst your rockwork.


I rinsed the **** out of the sand, and for good reason. I didn't rinse it initially before I put it in my 50 gallon because it said on the bag not to (its the live cichlid sand). But not rinsing it was the biggest mistake I ever made, my sump was clogged with silt for weeks. So before I put it in the new tank I rinsed it THOROUGHLY.

Yea I know about the 8x4" Marinepure blocks. My original intention was to have a sump for this tank and I was going to have a deep sand bed with two of those blocks in it. But I couldn't drill this tank so had to go with a canister. I don't really have enough sand in the tank to bury any of those inside. I am considering buying an Aquaripure nitrate filter, possibly one of the medium sized ones. They are kind of pricey though.

BTW I tested today for ammonia, there isn't any. Up to about 10 ppm nitrate after 5 days. So I don't think I'll have any issues even with the new fish. I'm going to do a water change on Saturday just before adding them. I bought a 55 gallon Brute garbage can with the wheels to use for water changes so I'll be doing about 50 gallon changes weekly.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

Why do you need the brute. Just put the water straight in the tank. Less work.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Cyphound said:


> Why do you need the brute. Just put the water straight in the tank. Less work.


LOL I knew someone would say that. I don't have anything I can use to add water directly from a faucet and frankly I don't really want to do it that way anyway. I like having everything mixed together and I like having the temperature within a degree. The only way I would do a direct water add is if I installed a tempering valve to use for this tank, which I have considered, but the problem is I don't have a hot water line near the tank, only cold. Btw with an FX6 it isn't really that much work to do it with a brute anyway. While I'm draining the tank (which I do directly into a drain line) I'm filling the garbage can. Then when the filling and draining is done I stick a hose from my FX6 into the garbage can and suck it out. Not that much extra work, if any. Actually the bigger annoyance is having the garbage can sitting around when I'm not using it, its HUGE.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

There are adaptors you can buy that allow you to hook a hose or put on up the a faucet. Cost about 6 bucks


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

If all you have is cold water available that may not be such a good idea. In the winter time that can get pretty cold and many cichlids won't appreciate a big dip in cold water. Even if it's only short term.

When I do my water changes I generally blend my warm and cold water together to get a temperature within 10 degrees of my tank temp. That kind of change isn't problematic for the fish. Even when doing 50% or larger water changes like I do.

For my tanks that require RO water I do fill from plastic 55 gallon drums that are at room temperature.

Andy


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

I was suggesting this for a kitchen or bathroom faucet. One of my 5 tanks is upstairs near a bathroom. I just unscrew the aerator and put on the hose adapter then hook my Python.
Just thinking that a 50 foot Python will get from any sink in most homes to the tank.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

I don't want to hijack the post but a local frontosa breeder discovered that by adding water that is a few degrees colder then the tank water when doing a water change stimulated breeding. I tried that with calvus and have had success on a regular basis when before it was sporadic.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Cyphound said:


> I don't want to hijack the post but a local frontosa breeder discovered that by adding water that is a few degrees colder then the tank water when doing a water change stimulated breeding. I tried that with calvus and have had success on a regular basis when before it was sporadic.


I've heard that, its because it simulates a rain storm right?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Cyphound said:


> I don't want to hijack the post but a local frontosa breeder discovered that by adding water that is a few degrees colder then the tank water when doing a water change stimulated breeding. I tried that with calvus and have had success on a regular basis when before it was sporadic.


I've noticed this behavior with other African cichlids as well.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

how exactly is that done?...
does it with any fish?...


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

I started a new post about various special methods in general discussions. Ask again there as we don't want to hijack this thread.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

is it this one by Trademark?...

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=430337&p=3010689#p3010689

if not can you link it please?...

thx...


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

I started work this weekend on the matching canopy top. I've also decided to do a plumbing change when I install the top. There are several dead spots in the tank and a lot of detritus accumulating so I'm going to change the piping from the FX6 so there is a single suction in the center of the tank and two outlets (one in each corner). Therefore I'm going to plumb it with PVC and vinyl and install loc line return nozzles rather than the stock FX6 nozzles. I'll post some pictures of the work later.

I also added my new fish this weekend. I had no problems at all introducing them. Pics to come...


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Canopy is completed and on the tank!


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

Looks fantastic. Good job.
Btw. No matter what you do, you will have dead spots. Especially in the rock formation. No way around it. This is why we syphon. Just use a power head before cleaning to blast the substrate.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Cyphound said:


> Looks fantastic. Good job.
> Btw. No matter what you do, you will have dead spots. Especially in the rock formation. No way around it. This is why we syphon. Just use a power head before cleaning to blast the substrate.


Yea I know but I like to minimize it as much as possible. This will give me a lot more aeration as well. I already bought all the fittings and started the plumbing, I'm going to install it all on the tank this weekend. I'm using the big 3/4", 3" wide loc line outlet nozzles. With two of those on either side of the tank and the suction in the center it'll do a much better job of keeping the bottom clean.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Very nice job on the stand and canopy and the tank is looking good!


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Guys here's a video I just shot today for youtube and the Mixed African Cichlid group. Its basically a rundown of my whole setup but it is also intended as a followup video to a previous one that I shot about the piping mod to my FX6...


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## jimnevens (Nov 1, 2017)

Nice job. I'm heading down a similar path and would appreciate your passing along info on the fans you used in the canopy. They look great. Thanks.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

jimnevens said:


> Nice job. I'm heading down a similar path and would appreciate your passing along info on the fans you used in the canopy. They look great. Thanks.


I'll send you a PM with the link.


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