# Is this normal behavior for holding female?



## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

I assume it is but I just want to be sure. So she started holding on Monday and I left her in the main tank until Friday, then I moved her into the fry tank which is a 20 Gallon Long tank that I just set up because she was spending two much of her energy chasing other fish off and I didn't want her to be harassed (although she seemed like she was the one keeping the other fish that would come by in check lol). I pulled some fluval biomax from my cycled filters and put some in the fluval u3 that I put in the aquarium as well as some in the whisper 20 that I have in there but my readings are still all at 0 for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. I believe this is because she doesn't produce much ammonia? will the BB die off? I could always grab more out of my canisters when the fry come out? Should I feed the tank a pellet every day to keep the cycle going?

anyway she mostly just sits in one spot all day and doesn't swim around much at all since I put her in the 20 long by herself. I hope this is normal.


Untitled by philipgonzales3, on Flickr


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

I can't really help much with Malawi, but maybe she needs a cave or something to feel more secure.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Good idea, maybe she feels too exposed. I'll see if I can make it to the LFS today, and eventually make my way to the landscape supply store for some more holy rock (they are closed today and most of the times I want to go by lol)


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Some additional rock will help her feel more comfortable. With regards to the bacteria, they need very little ammonia to survive and will simply go dormant with it's absence but won't die off.


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

GTZ said:


> Some additional rock will help her feel more comfortable. With regards to the bacteria, they need very little ammonia to survive and will simply go dormant with it's absence but won't die off.


Perhaps you can keep on 'charging' the bio-max by exchanging it with the ones in the cycled tank ??


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

I could, I have two cycled tanks with plenty of biomax, I'll just keep monitoring my ammonia and if I get any I'll add some more.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Darn she spit them out too early. They have eyes and can wave there tails though. Not sure where to go from here as I don't have a tumbler.

They do move gently around from time to time though so maybe they may live?


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Well I came home from school last night around 11 PM and the eggs were still on the sand and they were still alive as they did move thier tails and roll around a bit every once in a while. I decided to try making an egg tumbler and I made the best egg tumbler I could make. I don't have PVC, lift tubes, or window screeb lying around so I used what I had. The mom fish was kind of flashing and pacing around the tank a bit. I grabbed a small turkey baster and slowly sucked up the eggs and placed them in there makeshift tumbler. Turned off the lights and went to bed and the mom fish was dead in the morning, upside down on the bottom of the sand bed. I tested my water and 0 for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. I don't believe it's a water issue as the eggs are still alive. Did me grabbing her eggs freak her out to the point that she died. Is it even common for holding females (who spit their eggs out early) to die?

Here's my DIY tumbler.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Anybody have any ideas? Could her being stressed just up and kill her? I find it hard to believe, and I also find it hard to believe that it's an issue with the water because the eggs still seem to be alive so far. I just can't wrap my head around what happened...do they ever choke on the eggs if they try to swallow them? I'm going to check to make sure my heater isn't putting out electricity, which it doesn't appear to be. But wouldn't the eggs be dead too if it were the case? I am stumped and a little bummed but I will continue learning and hopefully this doesn't happen again. I believe I pulled her out a bit early at 5 days, so next time I may leave any other holding females for at least 14 days, I just don't want them to be getting beat up or wasting energy fighting off other fish, but then again it's better than the fish being dead.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

That's a definite head scratcher. It certainly sounds like there was something else going on with the female, as to what, unfortunately I have no idea. How long was she in the tank before she spit them?


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

I put her in there Friday if I remember correctly, she spit them monday during the day, and passed today (tuesday morning). I never did get any more caves for her, but I didn't think this was a life or death thing.


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

Wow so sorry ....

I have limited experience with a female that is holding. Her sitting at the bottom is something my fish did, so nothing to be alarmed about. Wish I could have more help.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Yea, I just wish I at least knew exactly what the cause of death was. I think I'm going to put some minnows that are in my turtle tank in that tank just to make sure it wasn't somehow an enviromental/watee problem just to double check before I use it for another holding female when the time comes.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

So I have one fry left in my DIY egg tumbler, I removed a a few that were not moving as they were dead from what I could tell. But my question is what happened to my other fry? I checked them every day and one day I could only find one and there were 3 that were wiggling their tails the day before, and now there is only one. Maybe They got ejected out of my tumbler out of the air holes I made in it at the top but I higly doubt it because I don't think it would have been possible for that to happen as the eggs seemed bigger than the holes. Is it possible that my one remaining fry ate the others?


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Here's the little one. Took it out of the tumbler and it has the 20 gallon long all to itself. It should be OK swimming around right? isn't it a beauty lol. Is that the egg still under it?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

One is better than none. 
In the past, I've kept the air holes on my tumbler slightly above the water line. I've lost eggs through the holes before.


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## philipgonzales3 (Dec 4, 2013)

GTZ said:


> One is better than none.
> In the past, I've kept the air holes on my tumbler slightly above the water line. I've lost eggs through the holes before.


Good idea, I will have to remember that for next time.


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