# White lips



## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

Help

I've just come home and noticed one of my Jalo female has like white around her lips, it kinda looks like a fungus, all other fish look ok but some are flashing. Can't notice any white spots on any of them..?

Any ideas what it is and how I can treat the tank..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They are fighting. What is your stock list and what are the dimensions of the tank? What are the test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

http://imgur.com/rCgYA1E




http://imgur.com/o8nmtKj


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

Difficult to take a decent pic. it kinda looks fury and extends under her chin.

The tank I know is perhaps too small but I wanted to rule out any disease ripping through the tank

90x50x50cm

5 yellow labs - 1m 4f
1F demasoni 
4 jalo reef - 1m 3f

Did 25 percent water change last night and all results look ok apart from 0.50 ammonia which its been like that for months


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## Old Newbie (Feb 18, 2017)

Looks like the aftermath of aggression to me. My female Kenyi fight a lot, often with males of other species.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Isolate her in a hospital tank, but just keep the water clean, she should heal.

The tank size is creating the problem, so you can't separate the two issues.

Don't put her back until you have more Jalo females. The female demasoni may also be fighting with her, you could try removing the demasoni.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

Shall I remove the female jalo's and just leave the Male in there with the 5 labs and dem..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Nope. Too many males. Not enough females.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

So if I left the Male jalo in there on his own, would he then bully the yellow labs..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You could expect that he would try to mate with any female in the tank (yellow labs and demasoni) and fight with the one yellow lab male who would be trying to stop him.

So yes, be aggressive with everyone else in the tank.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

How many more females would you put in..?


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

Or what about removing all the jalo and adding 11 more dems..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

First you want to solve your ammonia and nitrate problem.

For now either separate the damaged female (preferred so that you can ensure she gets better not worse). Or separate the Jalo male. After 3 weeks you should know if it was an illness or aggression.

Once you have cleared the disease question...I do not recommend doing demasoni in a 36" tank but if you are determined, you would add more than 11. You want to end up with 12 after removing extra males.

Jalo Reef are a lot more docile than demasoni and less likely to get sick than demasoni. They are the extra work fish.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

Thanks for the advice, yes first thing is to get her out, hospital tank is set up now, just need to get a cheap thermometer today as don't trust the reading on the heater. 
Hopefully the nitrogen cycle will eventually get sorted in my main tank.

Heads slightly spinning what to do after I can rule out disease or aggression.

In an ideal world I love the combination of dems and labs but appreciate my tank size would be a challenge. 
If I eventually removed all jalo and were left with 5 labs and 1 dem could I add any peacocks instead..?


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## Old Newbie (Feb 18, 2017)

Even though Labs are on the more moderate side of aggression as far as Mbuna are concerned, they are still Mbuna and will probably harass Peacocks. And, the lone Demasoni would most likely terrorize them. I now have a 55 gallon Demasoni species tank with 2 males and 10 females and had to go through quite an ordeal to get a combination that worked. I started with 1 Demasoni in a community Mbuna tank and it took me a while to figure out why all the other fish in the tank were battle scarred and/or hiding.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

Was the lone dem you had Male or female..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Shiftyfox, there was nothing wrong with the labs and Jalo Reefs. 1m:4f of each should work fine. All male tanks are also more challenging, but you might have success with the labs and 3 small, timid male peacocks that look nothing alike. Maleri, cobue and rubescens. Buy adult, sexed males.

With a selection of male peacocks allow a year or two to get a workable mix.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

So the 5 labs with 
x1 regal blue male peacock 
x1 sunshine male peacock 
x1 ruby red male peacock

Would I have to get rid of the female dem..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes to all. Remember all male might or might not work. Plan on adjustments over the first 2 years.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

I think you were right guys, the female jalo looks better this week, think it must have been aggression. 
So I currently have 1M 3F - how many more females should I add..? 
Or instead could I add some rusties and add 4 to get total number to 14 fish..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

This is a 35" tank, you don't want 14 fish. That would be for a 48" tank.

For the 35" tank safest is to go one single species, so trade in the Jalo Reefs for yellow labs.

If you want to keep the 2 species for now the problem is you want to add 3 fish at least whenever you add fish to an established tank, and you don't really have room for 3 more fish.

I would trade in the demasoni and add three Jalo Reef females, since they are the ones having aggression problems at this time.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

Over the past 10 day's or so I have had 3 fish that have died, demasoni and 2 jalo females. 
The demasoni hadn't been eating for several days and was spending a lot of time on the bottom of the tank. 
One of the female jalos gave birth and the day after died. I believe the jalo Male killed both of them. 
I realise I may have had the wrong ratio 1m 3f

So currently I have 1m 3f labs and 1m 1f jalo reef. 
6 fish total and 1fry hiding in the rocks.

If I added 3 more jalo female would that solve the issue or would he continue to kill them..?

Or as an experiment take the 2 jalo out and try 2 or 3 peacock males with the 4 labs..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Right now you have to wait 3 weeks to ensure whatever was killing your fish is gone or cured. Remove the male jalo during this period and do not add fish to this tank.

If additional fish die then you may need to treat with a medication (after diagnosing the illness).


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

Almost 3 weeks have elapsed and no more fish deaths, what are my options

Current stock
Yellow Labs 1M 3F
Jalo Reed 1M 1F (Jalo Female is holding)

Do I stick to 6 Fish and risk the male jalo eventually killing her..? 
Add 3 more larger Jalo female..?
Add another species?
Remove both Jalo's and add a different species..?


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## Old Newbie (Feb 18, 2017)

shiftyfox said:


> Almost 3 weeks have elapsed and no more fish deaths, what are my options
> 
> Current stock
> Yellow Labs 1M 3F
> ...


In a tank that size I would remove/re-home both Jalo, maybe add 1 or 2 more female Labs and keep it as a species tank. It's really too small to do much else with.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

I've had just the one species in there at the start and all they do is hide, until feed time.


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