# 150 g tank 80+ malawi mbuna insufficiant filteration help!



## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

Hi guys and gals, *** got a 150 gallon tank 48 x 24 x 30 (wxdxh) and when i first started keeping mbuna i only filled it up a bit, then i got some more so i filled it up more again i got more fish so i filled it up again, so im getting some more fish on tuesday i have loads of rocks and ill put more in when they arrive and finally fill the tank to the top, 
but its just dawned on me my filteration isn't good enough anymore! 
I have a fluval 305 canister filter and 2 fluval u4 internal filters ( i added the u4's when i got more fish).
so im on the fence about buying a fluval fx5 or a eheim 2080 pro 3.
i know the eheim is better but do i really need it or is the fluval fx5 enough (i'll be keeping both my u4's in the tank).
also when i buy my new filter it will be new so i can't just put it on my tank with 80 mbuna in thair it will kill all my babies :fish: .
so what i propose, now shoot me down if im wrong, putting my fluval 305 media in my new filter with the new filter media aswell, will this be ok?
or should i attempt running both filters on it for a while should i add bacteria to my tank to speed up the process? like safe start or waterlife freindly bacteria?
sorry about all the questions ppl but i need to keep my fish alive!
any thoughts or opinions?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Welcome to Cichlid-forum!!!

I'm a bit confused by your post about "filling it up more" and then "finally fill the tank to the top". Are you talking about filling with water or filling with rocks?

You can just add your new canister filter to your existing tank BUT leave the old canister filter running for a few weeks at the same time. I am not familiar with the Fluval u4 filters.

What kind of Mbuna do you have and how large are they? 80 adult fish sound like too many to me but that depends on what they are.

How long has this tank been setup?


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

with water and rocks i have all kinds of mbuna, to be honest i dont even know what kind they all are i bought 20 off 1 guy 20 off another 20 of another and bought some more aswell, i can give you a list of some of the species:
LABIIDOCHROMIS CAERULEUS (YELLOW LAB) IODOTROPHEUS SRENGERAE (RUSTY) Pseudotropheus Polits , a few Labeotropheus Fuelleborni and some Slender Mbuna Cichlid or Pseudotropheus elongatus. theese are just some i can take some pictures if you want where should i post them? theres a lot of adult fish but most of them are about 2-3 inches i have about 10-20 adults of 4-5- inches on tuesday im getting: 8x Red Top Gallireya 6f 2m
4 Masinje (these will have to be 2 pairs though as I have 8f/8m)
8 Lions Cove Afra 6f 2m and some more yellow labs i have loads of different types hope this helps


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

You might want to slow down on continuing to add more fish. The only fish you have that I am familiar with are the Labidochromis caeruleus. Please check out the Library section for compatible species and stocking recommendations.

Also, how long has this tank been set up? Was it cycled properly before adding fish?


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

this tank was cycled properly and it is established now.
you are advised to heavily overstock theese fish to cut out specific aggression.
im buying an eheim 2260 on wednesday i decided to get that one because it seems to be better than the 2080 pro 3 and its cheaper too! my 260 is costing Ã‚Â£200 the 2080 is Ã‚Â£285 im going to keep my 305 on it and my u4's x2.
my fish are coming later in the week now so thats good too. its a 150g tank will this be enough filteration or should i buy another eheim when *** run this one with my eheim for a few weeks?
Eheim External Filter 2260 Specs:

* Aquarium Size: 396 Gallons
* Filter Volume: 4.8 Gallons (18 L)
* Pump Output: 502 gph (1900 lph)
* Weight: 20lbs
* Dimensions: 13.5Ã¢â‚¬Â³ x 16Ã¢â‚¬Â³ x 22.5Ã¢â‚¬Â³
* Filter: 13Ã¢â‚¬Â³ diameter x 22Ã¢â‚¬Â³ high
* Flexible Hose Diameter: 1Ã¢â‚¬Â³ inlet and 5/8Ã¢â‚¬Â³outlet
* 2 years warrantyÃ¯Â»Â¿


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I like the 2260 filter. They are my filter of choice for large tanks. Normally, it comes without media and the quick disconnects. The quick disconnects make it much easier to remove the filter for cleaning purposes. 
Do you have any idea what media you plan on purchasing for the filter?

I'm not familiar with the other filters you have, but I would probably leave them on the tank. It can't hurt having extra filters with the high level of stocking you will have.


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## gilberbt (Aug 1, 2009)

I would shoot for over 10x gph turnover in your tank at minimum and add more filtration, not replace your existing. Also in my opinion I would consider a heavily stocked 150g (48"x24"x30") as probably anything over 25-30 fish when they are adults mainly because most African Cichlids like more ground surface area and not height of the tank. I currently have a 75g (48"x18"x21") and I consider mine heavily stocked when I have over 15 adult 5" fish in there and your ground surface area is only 2 sq/ft more than my tank. Also to keep "ideal" water parameters (not just clear water as there is a big difference) I would think you would need to do a 50% daily water change to keep your parameters in check. Anyway I am not trying to discourage you by any means, just giving my 2 cents, but good luck with your setup and welcome to the forum!


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

no i need to know what media to use for best filteration please tell me what you think? this is some info in the advertisement if it helps:

classic external canister filters can also be operated with sponges and pads. However EHEIM recommends layering with EHEIM filter media. Tailored filter media sets are available for every model. The pump head and filter canister are connected simply and very functionally with functional clips and a high quality silicone o-ring.

im assuming this doesn't come with quick disconnects or media shall i use the media sold for this model?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

The 2260/2262 is the only Eheim Classic model filter that does not have pre-cut filter pads. You can purchase whatever media you want to use for it. Everyone seems to have a different preference for media type/brand but you definitely want to have mechanical media first to help keep the bio media clean.

I am using 5L of Ehfimech in the bottom of the canister to trap the large debris. Then I cut some large aquarium sponge media to fit that has 20PPI. Then I have a media bag with either Ehfi SubstratPro or Seachem Pond Matrix for my bio media.

Some people also use aquarium filter floss or polyester pillow filling/batting to catch the fine particles. Depending on the amount of fish waste, this product can become clogged rather quickly.

I do hope you realize that this is a very large canister filter. If you are planning on putting it in your aquarium stand, please check to make sure that it will fit. I had to rotate the pump orientation so that it will fit inside my stand. It was very easy to do but the pump cover will not work with the rotated pump (unless modified).

I'll see if I can find some pics. Here is a link (another forum) showing more details & suggestions about media for this model. My post is #28, showing the rotated pump mounted on the filter body http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... light=2260.


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

"large aquarium sponge media to fit that has 20PPI" what does 20ppi mean?
how much Seachem Pond Matrix do you use? dont you use any type of carbon?
im not putting it in a cabinet so size is fine.


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

does anybody know where i can get theese quick disconnrects in the uk?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

PPI=Pores Per Inch or as the ratio of the number of voids per solid material per linear inch. The higher the number, the finer the filtration.

How much bio-media I use depends on how much of the other media I put in the canister filter. Anywhere from 2L to 5L, depending on the thickness of the sponges or filter floss I use.

I do not use carbon in any of my filters yet. It is usually used for removing any medications that were used in the tank, though it can be helpful to improve the clarity of the water. Carbon does need to be replaced on a regular basis.


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

i thought activated carbon reduced ammonia.
so i know that the stuff in the bottom EHEIM EHFIMECH is sold as mechanichal media but does it hold bacteria like biological media like SEACHEM MATRIX or EHIEM EHFI SUBSTRAT PRO?

the latter is much cheaper where i live so ill use that and add some matrix when i have more cash

i cant get hold of medium (20 ppi) sponge should i go for fine or coarse?
the foam is 2" thick so ill get 5l of EHEIM EHFIMECH then the foam then ill add the EHIEM EHFI SUBSTRAT PRO,

*** decided to use normal true union ball valves instead of the eheim quick disconnects they will do the same job but cost alot less, the price for 2 of the eheim ones in the uk was over Ã‚Â£75!  
the 16mm one wasnt that bad at about Ã‚Â£17 but the 25mm was Ã‚Â£46.

i have a 16mm valve already and the 25mm one will cost me Ã‚Â£12 :thumb:

should i add bacteria to my tank to mature the filter quicker or just let it happen on its own i dont want to kill my fish.

sorry about all the questions but your helping me alot and other people who need help and read this will also be greatful for the info.


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## pomi (Oct 13, 2009)

Oh man, 80+ mbuna in 150g is not heavily overstocked. It's over-over-over-overstocked. You also said that you heave lots of rocks, so that reduces the water volume a lot under 150g.

The amount of filtration to keep your water safe in your case is like 20 times the water volume per hour. If you do that, the output flow of your filters will make the water in the tank be like a sea storm.

I strongly suggest to cut down your fish numbers to 30, maximum 40 individuals.


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

i have had a think about it and i think i only have 50 fish in there and im getting 20 soon so theres about 70 fish but it doesnt look overstocked *** seen videos and people seem to have twice the amount of fish in thair tanks compared to mine.
at the moment there is a fluval 305 and 2 fluval u4's on the tank and if i do a 50-60% water change a week the amonia nitrite nitrate levels are ok,
so with this new filter on it im sure it'll be fine. i have 3 haps in thair aswell so they might have eaten some mbuna babies,
it honestlly doesnt look overstocked i dont know where all the fish have gone! im sure there all in thair :?

i'll upload some photos and you can see for yourself.



http://imgur.com/sGVhq




http://imgur.com/nPXJ0




http://imgur.com/PC6z6




http://imgur.com/tShof




http://imgur.com/SWesD


theres loads of algue on the glass im gonna rub it off tonight, they all came to 1 side of the tank cause when i went in the room they thought it was feeding time.
when i add the other 20 fish this week ill fill the tank up to the top adding 45 gallons (175 litres)

thats a third more water in there so they will be 90 fish in total i think.

i do have 2 more tanks a juwel trigon 190 corner tank and a 200 litre 4ft tank with guppies but the corner tank has 2 fish in it and the 4ft has about 50 guppies.

i dont want to seperate my mbuna.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for posting the pics. I would strongly suggest you fill your tank to the proper level NOW. There is absolutely no reason not to and it will give your fish more swimming room.

You seem to have a considerable amount of rock in the tank which allows the fish to hide but it definitely decreases the number of fish that should be kept in that tank.

The other problems I am seeing are that you are combining similarly colored fish in the same genus. This will increase the aggression when the fish are ready to breed and foment possible hybridization. You have 2 species of Pseudotropheous, 2 species of Metriaclima and I'm not sure which species of Haplochromines you have. The only peaceful fish you have are the Yellow Labs and the Rusty Cichlids. The rest are either semi or highly aggressive when adults.

There should be NO Ammonia or Nitrite readings on a properly cycled tank and if you are seeing anything above Zero, please start doing daily water changes of at least 40-50% until the readings are Zero. This means that your tank either wasn't properly cycled (Ammonia=Zero; Nitrite=Zero and Nitrate=20-40) OR the additions of 20 fish at a time did not allow your good bacteria to catch up to your stocking levels.

The footprint of your tank 48"L x 24"W x 30"H really does reduce the number of Mbuna that should be kept in that tank. The fish need to establish territories to feel safe and it helps to reduce aggression.


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

ok i'll fill it up today when i do my water change and i'll only add a few more rocks when i add my new fish the new ones are all babies so they will be ok.

so i know that the stuff in the bottom EHEIM EHFIMECH is sold as mechanichal media but does it hold bacteria like biological media like SEACHEM MATRIX or EHIEM EHFI SUBSTRAT PRO?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

All hard surfaces in your aquarium & filters holds the good bacteria. The glass surfaces, gravel/sand substrate, rocks, and filter media. I'm sure there is some bacteria growing on the mechanical media but it is mainly there to trap the larger debris entering the filter. I would not recommend using it as the only bio-media in your filter.

Products sold specifically as bio-media tend to have a large surface area or very tiny pores to allow good bacteria to have a secure place to live & multiply. So I would suggest adding at least 1L of bio-media to your filter to start with. You can always add more when you can afford to get some. It doesn't all have to be the same brand.

I do suggest using a media bag to contain whatever bio-media you purchase. My 2260 came with a media bag to do just this. Hopefully yours will also.

Dee


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

i have 2 caves in my tank (a large tree stump ornament and a mid sized bell)
and they take up most of the floor space expecially the tree stump should i put the stump in another tank?
will the mbuna (rock dwelling fish) prefer me to take the stump out or will they want the hiding space it has no bottom on it so technically it isnt taking up the floor space but it is a cave structure i got this when i bought 20 of the fish this was in the container. the bell has no bottom but is much smaller than the stump and it has holes init for swimming through the stump only has a few holes round the bottom. edge.
should i remove the stump and add some rocks? if so ill do it when my babie fish come (saturday)
when i add new rocks and move around the rocks already in there to break up terrotories the fish have made.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

The answer to this question is crying out for a picture upload. Can you do this for us?

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... hp?t=21085

kevin


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

^^ I agree. It would also be very helpful to have a full view of the front of the tank. The pics you posted yesterday make it very difficult to get an overall view of your tank.


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

sorry about that my tank is side on and theres not much room to compromise i have filled the tank almost to the top now because my tank isn't on a stand its hard to get good pictures.



http://imgur.com/all




http://imgur.com/all




http://imgur.com/all


hope theese help
the stump isnt as big as i first thought and has multiple entrance/exits


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Well the pictures are somewhat better but you will NOT be able to use the Eheim 2260 filter next to this tank. The filter installation has certain requirements and needs at least 26.5 inches between the water surface and the bottom of the filter. Since the filter is 22 inches tall, you will need to buy or build a stand that your tank can be put on.

Also, from your latest pics, I see that you have at least two Hap. Nimbochromis Venustus (Giraffe Cichlids are the common name) and these get at least 8 - 10" long and are very aggressive when adults. I have one adult male and he killed his tank mates when only 1/2 grown.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

stevenn21 said:


> with water and rocks i have all kinds of mbuna, to be honest i dont even know what kind they all are i bought 20 off 1 guy 20 off another 20 of another and bought some more aswell, i can give you a list of some of the species:
> LABIIDOCHROMIS CAERULEUS (YELLOW LAB) IODOTROPHEUS SRENGERAE (RUSTY) Pseudotropheus Polits , a few Labeotropheus Fuelleborni and some Slender Mbuna Cichlid or Pseudotropheus elongatus. theese are just some i can take some pictures if you want where should i post them? theres a lot of adult fish but most of them are about 2-3 inches i have about 10-20 adults of 4-5- inches on tuesday im getting: 8x Red Top Gallireya 6f 2m
> 4 Masinje (these will have to be 2 pairs though as I have 8f/8m)
> 8 Lions Cove Afra 6f 2m and some more yellow labs i have loads of different types hope this helps


For anybody else following this topic, I have summarized a simple list of the fish he presently has and will be acquiring to make it easier to understand. Presently has about 50 fish, some adults & some sub adults.

Labidochromis Caeruleus
Iodotropheus Sprengerae
Pseudotropheus Polit
Labeotropheus Fuelleborni (a few)
Pseudotropheus elongatus (some)
Haps, it appears they are Nimbochromis Venustus from the pics (at least 3)

And he will be getting these fish soon
Metriaclima pyrsonotos ? (Red Top Gallireya (2M/6F)
Metriaclima Zebra (OB Masinje) (8M/8F)
Cynotilapia Afra (Lions Cove) (2M/6F)
Plus additional Yellow Labs


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

thanks deeda


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

From the water level to the floor its 32 inches (the tank is on a platform thats 6 inch high).
The tank is 30 inch high but i cant fill it right to the top so i'll leave the top 2 inch empty that will make it 32 inch from the water line to the bottom of the filter. 
I have a wood own built hood that is high so theres plenty of room for oxygen.

you scared me to death then when you said it wouldn't work  cause i've just spent Ã‚Â£270 on the filter and media and its all on its way :thumb:


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

deeda should i remove the haps and put them in with the Auratus cichlid (male) and the other aggressive fish i dont know what type it is but i had 2 and my Auratus cichlid killed one of them but he seems to be trying to mate with it. 
i have 2 male Auratus cichlids in my mbuna tank and they dont mind each other that much,
no females so i have 2 in the mbuna tank (1 small 1 large both black with white stripes)
and 1 in a tank with the unknown fish i tried putting the Auratus cichlid in with the mbuna but he was attacking them all, but then he stopped after a few days.
the smaller Auratus cichlid was worrying him to death so i removed him.
when i got him he was grey and his colour faded but since he killed that fish and tried to mate with the other he,s turning black.
he's the biggest at 5-6 inches


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I think the Hap. Venustus will do better with the Auratus than where they are now. But you will need some rock caves or similar so the Auratus can hide. I had my Venustus with a couple Auratus in a 4"' long 75 Gallon tank with no problems but they were the only fish in the tank. What size is the tank with the Auratus?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I put my responses in red.


stevenn21 said:


> From the water level to the floor its 32 inches (the tank is on a platform thats 6 inch high). I did not realize the tank was on a platform.
> 
> The tank is 30 inch high but i cant fill it right to the top so i'll leave the top 2 inch empty that will make it 32 inch from the water line to the bottom of the filter.
> Why can't you fill the tank to the top?
> ...


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

i can't fill it to te top because 1 inch from the top of the tank there is like a glass frame 1 strip across the front and 1 across the back and 2 bar's of glass from back to front 1 at each side of the tank look:



http://imgur.com/all




http://imgur.com/all


the hood isnt that old the gloss paint i used was suppost to be waterproof for indoor and outdoor use but as you can see its not holding up that well, i did it properly too,primer x2, undercoat x2, then gloss x2
i've bought some black board paint its for indoor and outdoor use so it should be weather proof
and most important its non toxic, this white gloss doesnt state non toxic but my fish are fine no deaths yet


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

stevenn21 said:


> i can't fill it to te top because 1 inch from the top of the tank there is like a glass frame 1 strip across the front and 1 across the back and 2 bar's of glass from back to front 1 at each side of the tank look:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

i did add some vent to the lid, but im going to make the holes at the back large so i can fit the new canister intake/output in it
that should do fine.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

OK.

To make it easier to view your pictures instead of having to open the link you provide, try doing this.

On the imgur site, click SIZES: Large (this will size the picture properly).

Then copy the link under Message Boards (this will copy your picture).

Now paste it in your message where you want it to appear (The pic will appear instead of the link).

I hope this helps.
Dee


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

thanks deeda testing, testing:










exellent


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Have you set the new filter up yet? Any other updates?


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## stevenn21 (Aug 15, 2010)

no annoyingly the filter hasn't even arrived yet it got sent out tuesday so im expecting it anytime soon.
in the uk the quick connects cost over Ã‚Â£65 so i am going to use cut off valves and true union valves.
i already had a valve that will fit the smaller of the 2 hosings (16mm) but bought the true union valve for the larger 25mm hosing.
theese are the valves:










the cd is fhor size perception it a dual layer normal size dvd rw disc


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

i have a 150g with about 50 fish.. some quite big ones.

i am doing ok with it .. i make sure the 2 eheim canisters are pouring in from a height to cause lots of air.. also i have a lot of sand substrate to help with the bio.

i weekly do almost 80 percent water changes but because i know that the bio is in the sand rocks ect i can do this and it keeps the nitrates ect under control.

power heads to keep the poop moving and the water circulating.

the fish love it and they are spawning so the numbers are going up!!


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