# Mixed Malawi



## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

I am interested in stocking my 120 with All Male Malawi species. Just wondering what to get. My colors I want are blues, yellows, oranges, and reds. Also interested in about how many to get? If I should get sexed or unsexed and weed them out and sell back to the fish store as time goes on?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the 120G tank? How many other tanks do you have (to weed out females and problem males)? How patient are you? How much money do you want to spend?


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

DJRansome said:


> What are the dimensions of the 120G tank? How many other tanks do you have (to weed out females and problem males)? How patient are you? How much money do you want to spend?


This is continuation of: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=203284


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

Tank dimension are 48 x 24 x 24. I have a lot of patients. I don't have any other tanks at the moment, but can easily sell back to the store that is a few minutes away. I can also easily get used tanks most likely a 30 gallon long if need be. As far as money goes, initially I can spend around $150-$200. Over time, it really isn't that big of an issue.

Not really interested too much in peacocks or haps but if I could keep a few with mbunas that would be great!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

All male mbuna is not as common as all male hap/peacock. The peaceful mbuna that get along well with the haps/peacocks are the minority, so mixing mbuna with haps/peacocks would tend to result in a tank that is mostly haps/peacocks. That's not what you want.

You probably want to end up with at least a dozen fish. Since you have patience, can get more tanks and want to keep the investment low I'd get juveniles and weed out females and extra males over time. Not much in the way of red among mbuna, the closest is the red-orange metriaclima estherae.

Here are some ideas to select from:
Demasoni (blue bars)
Maingano (blue stripes)
Acei Ngara (black)
Socolofi (solid light blue)
Rusties (rust and purple)
Yellow Lab
Red Zebra
Flavus (yellow bars)

Have you read the all-male article in the library?


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

I have read the all-male article. I appreciate your help. Are there any more that you can think of? 
Is the red-orange metriaclima estherae included with these ideas? Could I put a few haps and peacocks with this group? How many of each would you recommend getting if I get juveniles?

If I spent the extra money to get all male adults, how many could I fit in my 120?


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

What fish (haps, peacocks, mbunas) go well with each other? Tank is 120 gallons 48 x 24 x 24.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I would either pick peacocks and haps *or* mbuna. Once you decide on that then you can decide about specific species. This is just my opinion on what works out best but a lot of other people agree.


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

nick0604 said:


> What fish (haps, peacocks, mbunas) go well with each other? Tank is 120 gallons 48 x 24 x 24.


You could do yellow labs (labidochromis caeruleus) and rusties (purple) (iodotropheus sprengere) with haps and peacocks because they are less agressive but these two fish species are monomorphic so you would have to vent if you want all males


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

As I said, all male mbuna is relatively rare so I'm not sure anyone can advise you on how to set up a successful tank...not sure I know of any that have run two years or more.

So it's all conjecture. I'd shoot for 12 fish and see how that works. You might have problems even coming up with 12 that are different enough.

Because many of the mbuna are too aggressive for most peacocks/haps, I wouldn't try adding peacocks/haps to a mostly mbuna all male tank.

If you change your mind and want mostly peacocks/haps, the mbuna that work with them are labs definitely and possibly acei and rusties. That's it.

Metriaclima estherae = Red Zebra. I'd probably buy 4 juvies of each and hope for a male. 12 is your target so if I was buying adult fish, it would still be 12.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

nick0604 you have two posts that are basically the same, which would you like me to close?


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I think there is someone here on this forum that has all male mbuna and has another tank with all female. Don't know how long they have had it going though.

The easiest way to accomplish it is to buy the fish already sexed (although it's more expensive). You have to be sure to only get one male per species and don't even get 2 that look similar. That goes for both type tanks... the all male mbuna tank or the male hap/peacock tank.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

In addition to the species DJRansome listed, here's some more that you can consider...
Metriaclima callainos & ob zebra
a cynotilapia species (make sure it doesn't look to much like the demasoni)
albino socolofi (I love this all white fish & think it would be ok with the regular socolofi)
a labeotropheus species
and even though it isn't from malawi (a victorian cichlid) an Astatotilapia latisfaciata should work too


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'm not sure how much the males from similar species will fight, so for example I did not add albino socolofi since I already listed blue socolofi.

I'm not saying it won't work, it's just not the first thing I would try.


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## sisonek (Sep 8, 2009)

I have an all male Mbuna tank that has been running for about two weeks I have a red zebra and an albino zebra, out of all of the fish in this tank these two are the least aggressive towards each other if you want white you might go with the albino zebra instead of albino socolofi I am by no means an expert though.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

We will be able to tell more about your success sisonek when the tank has been running at least one year and preferably two years.

I agree Dewdrop, there was someone that was very pro all-male mbuna, but I can't recall the member name.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

Thanks for everyone's help. I am going to go with a few mbuna as DJ Ransome said and then haps and peacocks mostly. I should be complete today with the set up today. Probably shouldn't have put water in it yet, but I had a couple of small angel fish I needed to put in it after I got rid of my tropical tank to switch to this monster.

How do I add a photo to this thread?[/img]


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you are going with haps/peacocks mostly then you want to limit your mbuna to just yellow labs (safest) and possibly acei and rusties (higher risk).

To post a pic, save it to a free website like photobucket. Click on the img link under the pic to copy the link. Paste the link into your Cichlid-forum post. Click "Preview" to see your pic. Then click ""Submit".

PS the angelfish are going in a separate tank, right? They will not mix with Africans. pH requirements and aggression would not work.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

Is it possible that the acei and rusties will kill some other fish if I decide to go with a few?

Yes, the angelfish will be gone in about a week or two. The ph will soon be to high for them cause I put about 80 lbs of golden lace rock and texas holey rock in the tank along with some crushed coral in the filter baskets. So far its looking pretty cool.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

With an all-male tank, anything is possible. There is another thread going now by someone who is tired of removing problem fish and just wants a stocked and stable tank. It's not so easy to achieve.

It's unlikely that the fish will kill each other, but if you get someone who is too aggressive for tankmates, the tankmates will refuse to color up and you will have a bunch of brown/silver fish. Or the aggressor could chase the victim fish until it becomes exhausted and sick, then infects your tank.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

So, I have decided to go with a peacock and haps tank with 7 species, 4 of each for 28 fish. So far the tank is all set up and running well ph is 7.6 and rising with the crushed coral and holey rock being in it. The fish I plan to get are:
Copadichromis borleyi Borleyi Yellow Fin

Protomelas sp. "Steveni Imperial" 
Imperial Tigress

Placidochromis Electra
Electra "Deep Water Hap

Otopharynx lithobates (Red Blaze)
Red Blaze Lithobates

Aulonocara Sp. Fire Fish Dragon Blood 
Fire Fish Dragon Blood

Aulonocara Baenschi
Sunshine Peacock Benga Yellow

Aulonocara Stuartgranti (Ngara) Orange
Ngara Flametail Orange


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

For When you order, in another thread, I asked at what size do dimorphic species change colors to adult coloration. I was told 3/4 inch to 2.5 inch, depending on the species.

just FIY, good luck :thumb:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Are you still going for all male? So you will end up with 7 fish?


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

I am getting all juveniles so I doubt I will go with all male aquarium now. In the future though I may switch, just want to get everything going and then we'll see. I think that maybe within the next 2 years, I will switch to an all male tank. As for now, I think it might be fun seeing them breed and maybe even keep some fry as I just got a smaller tank today!


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

now you have to worry about hybrids and getting the proper male female ratio


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Right, peacocks and haps hybridize. That's why you don't keep them in the same tank if you want to breed.

Also, once you mix the females, especially among the peacocks, you will not be able to separate them again according to ID, they look too much alike. So they could not be later sold as pure, nor could fry be sold as pure.

If you want mixed genders and a variety of fish you are better off going with mbuna.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

I guess I won't be breeding then. Just have the males eat them or take them out of the tank, but these are the fish that I want to keep. It's my first cichlid tank, but have had plenty of tropical and planted setups. Also, my tanks rarely stay the same, no more than 3 years so I will probably try breeding and all male tank eventually, but for now I like what I am going with.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

If I don't want to breed them yet, what do you do with the fry that they produce? Will they eat them or do I have to pull them out of the tank? I may try and get rid of the female peacock I plan on keeping and then keep the males. As far as the haps I will probably keep all of them. Please let me know if this ok to do.


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

nick0604 said:


> If I don't want to breed them yet, what do you do with the fry that they produce? Will they eat them or do I have to pull them out of the tank? I may try and get rid of the female peacock I plan on keeping and then keep the males. As far as the haps I will probably keep all of them. Please let me know if this ok to do.


There is a catfish called s. multi for short used for fry control: Sydontis multipunctactushttp://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/s_multipunctatus.php They eat the fry. That's what most african cichlid aquarists use to get rid of the fry. If you are not into controlling the species to reduce risks of hybridization, then the fry may or may not be hybrids (you may get lucky in some cases) but many if not most people do not want hybrid africans so you will probably end up culling them anyway (cull = kill, use for food for bigger fish etc.) Hybrid africans are not wanted because the behaviour and the expected coloration is not seen, and they definately can't be used to breed (99.999999999% of the time) THe only "pseudopopular" hybrid is the OB Peacock and even that is shunned by many aquarists.

Also, once you have female peacocks of different species int he same tank,as DJRansome said, they will be very hard to get rid of as pure breeds, and will be unwanted therefore . they will be one or the other but you won't be able to convince anybody that they are a specific species unless they were kept in a species only tank. As I mentioned earlier, it is possible to get all male peacocks if you wnat them at the 3/4 inch to 2.5 inch size because you will not be ordering them (female peacocks) in the first place. Gibbs wrote in another thread


> Mixing aulonocara species with the intention of breeding is aking to be swamped with hybrid fry. They crossbreed in the blink of an eye. If your desire is to breed and hap/peacock species it is best to do so in a species specific tank. They all hybridise easily the problem isn't just subjected to peacocks.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

Well, I think I will get what I was going to get in the first place (28 juvenile fish). If there are female peacocks, I may pull them and put them in the tank I just got or I will definitely try the catfish. As far as the haps, I will probably keep all of them. Are the female haps colorful?


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

I would get male peacocks at a very early age, 3/4 inch to 2.5 inch. and no female peacocks. I believe peacocks get big as 5 or 6 inches so thats a ways to go. I am no expert but I tried to warn you about this in the earlier thread, Go back to it and read what I said about putting juveniles of each species in their own tank and then taking out the males and putting them in a male only show tank, I don't think identifying female haps is as much of a problem as identifying female peacocks. So If you want 3 species of peacocks as unsexed juveniles, you need three tanks on top of the show tank to know that each species of female peacocks are identifiable. If you buy peacockl juveniles before they are sexed and mix them in one tank, you probably will not be able to get rid of the females because you won't be able to convince anyone you know the species they are from.

Sorry for being long winded but if you want to do it right, you need to consider these factors.

As for female haps being colorful, I don't know, perhaps DJRansome or Fogelhund will answer this for you


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

*nick0604 wrote*


> The fish I plan to get are:
> Copadichromis borleyi Borleyi Yellow Fin
> 
> Protomelas sp. "Steveni Imperial"
> ...


DJRansome, can the females of these particular aulonocara species be identified by finnage and shape by an expert? I tried to warn nick0604 about his plan of getting juveniles, that 1/16 probabilty that he will get all females if unsexed and that he will have a real hard time getting rid of the females if mixed (as you did) He also wants to know if female haps are colorful


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

Would it be okay to get 3 male of each aulonocara around 2-3 inches, then get 4 of each haps that are juveniles around 1-1.5 inches?


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

Female haps are not colorful as male haps acc to Fogelhund


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Hap and peacock females are silver or brown, thus the popularity of all male tanks with them.

Three males of the same type in one tank will fight. You might keep them until one becomes dominant but then he will likely attack the others.

I just had that issue with my peacocks, I bought six juvies and kept them a year while they grew up. Turned out I had all males. Within the last month I had to remove all but one. Added 3 adult, sexed females and they were holding within one week.

Regarding ID of females by an expert? I bought juvie peacocks one time from an expert who swore he/she could do this. Let's just say it will be the last time, LOL.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

Alright, so I am going to buy my fish tonight and have decided to go back to an all male tank, spend a little extra so I get all males. I am going for a haps and peacock mixture, 1 male of different smaller species for a total of 15 fish. I will add another 15 or so when I get the money in a month or two and rearrange the rocks before I put the new ones in. Can't wait till Saturday! I may add a male yellow lab and rusty in the near future as my local fish store sells these fish. I think I have made a better decision. Sorry for switching my mind so much, but have learned a lot from this. The tank is pretty much ready to go ph is 7.8 still rising, temps are 78-80F, gh and kh are good, no nitrites or nitrates.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Sounds good. I edited out the vendor name.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

So here is the final list, one of each fish and I talked to the fish guy and he suggested to go with some small mbuna also:
*small:* (2 inches)
Afra Cobue
Demasoni
Electric Yellow
Elongatus Jewel Spot
Joanjohnsonae
Red Top Hongi
Red Zebra
Rusty
Snow White

*Premium:* (3 inches)
Aristo Yellow Blaze (zimbawe rock)
Borleyi Mbenji
Hap. Insignus.
Hap. Pheno
Venustus

Blue Neon Chiwindi
Chiloelo Red Shoulder
Ngara Flametail (Mdoka Yellow)
OB Peacock (Hybrid)
Sunshine Peacock Benga Yellow
Yellow Collar Peacock
Albino Lemon Jake

Obliquiden Thick Skin, Red Fin

*Adult:* (4-5 inches)
Regal Blue


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)




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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

Tank ph is now 8.0 
ammonia is at .25 ppm
nitrites at .25
nitrates are about 10-20
Temps at 78-81 degrees F

Adding fish on Saturday, hopefully all will go well! do you think I should put an ammonia remover in the filter as I am adding all these fish at once?

Also, what kind of food should I get for these fish?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Wouldn't you rather wait until the tank is cycled to add the fish? I would not add ammonia remover.

New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula is a popular choice.


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

Nick told me in a pm that the tank is cycled, he's using a filter that had been running in a cycled tank...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

nick0604 said:


> ammonia is at .25 ppm
> nitrites at .25


Then why is this happening?


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

All the filters and bio wheels I am using are from a cycled tank. I do have 1 fish in it now for a few days and it seems fine.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> nick0604 said:
> 
> 
> > ammonia is at .25 ppm
> ...


Probably because in the aquaclear 500 there was no biological filtration, only chemical and mechanical. I added ceramic rings to the filter when I first got it and now everything seems to be alright. The ammonia has dropped to untraceable levels as has the nitrites. I also stopped feeding the tank the last 2 days and my nitrates have dropped to a steady 10 or below.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You don't want your nitrates to drop unless you do a water change. That would mean your bacteria are not producing waste as they would if they were healthy. You do want your ammonia and nitrites to be zero for several days before you add fish.

How many fish are you adding? How will you supplement the bacteria to handle any additional bioload?


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

I am adding 19 1-3 inch fish. Took the levels this morning and all looked good 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10-20 nitrates. I recently won an xp2 canister filter, so with that, the aquaclear 110, and a marineland penguin 330 biowheel filter is how I am supplementing any extra bioload. The ceramic rings in the penguin 330 were taken from my 30 gallon, the filters are used as are the biowheels and then theres some crushed coral in with the ceramic rings. In the aquaclear I have a used sponge with plenty of brown bacteria on it, carbon filters, and the bio max ceramic cylinders that I just added a week ago. I should have the xp2 used filter media and filter in 3-4 days. When I get the xp2 do you think I should get rid of the aquaclear 110 or the penguin 330 or keep all of them?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Whoa. Well let's first do bacteria and then filters. Biomedia is not the same as an established biofilter. Biomedia provides the _place_ for the bacteria to grow, but an established biofilter is biomedia with the bacteria _already growing_ on it.

So...the filter(s) you have today on the tank today is supporting the bioload (# and size of fish) you have in the tank today. That's why your ammonia and nitrites are zero (the bacteria are eating it) and your nitrates are 10-20ppm (the bacteria are producing waste).

It takes about two weeks or more to establish a new filter by running it on an existing tank.



> The ceramic rings in the penguin 330 were taken from my 30 gallon


 How many and what size fish were in the 30G and how long ago did you take the rings out? Bacteria starts to die off in a couple days unless you feed it ammonia.



> the filters are used as are the biowheels and then theres some crushed coral in with the ceramic rings. In the aquaclear I have a used sponge with plenty of brown bacteria on it, carbon filters


Were they used in an established tank for more than 2 weeks? How many and what size fish did you have in those tanks?

For example, if your extra bacteria that you are going to add by adding the rings, sponges, etc. were supporting 19 1-3 inch fish that's ideal...equal bioload.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

There were 4 full sized pucas and one large cichlid in the tank I bought with the aquaclear on it.

The penguin 330 biowheel filter was part of another 120 with a full sized albino oscar in it with a few other small fish.

The ceramic rings I had were in a 30 gallon with about 18-20 2-4 inch tropical fish in it and were taken out of the tank about 5 days ago.

I received the fish this morning and they all seem to be getting along. Even got a free azures!

I will take more levels tonight and see if anything has changed. The last 4-5 days, the water has become crystal clear and can see clear from one 4 foot side to the other.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

Nothing changed as of today. Fed them the first time this morning and man were they hungry! All levels are the same. All fish are getting along quite well can't wait till they all color up nicely.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

So far I have had a few deaths in the tank, the red zebra passed first with bloat, then snow white got attacked by Borleyi Mbenji not good(I witnessed the whole event and pulled snow white out of his mouth. snow white is doing well in a quarantine. Next, I woke up one morning and all the fish were in one cave eating Ngara Flametail (Mdoka Yellow). And just tonight I found Venustus died and didn't look good a couple of days ago(not eating and stayed in caves). These fish are mostly juveniles and mostly all males. Fish are 2"-4". Is this normal for a somewhat new tank? All my water levels are good, nitrite 0, nitrate 10, ammonia 0, ph 8.2, kh/gh ~160 for both. I also added about an 8 inch pleco a week ago to cure some brown algae and is doing a wonderful job. Just, curious as to why I've had 3 fish die already and one injured in the last month? Tank is 120 gallons


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Could you be having a bloat epidemic? No it would not be normal IME to have fish deaths related to a new tank.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

I have seen what bloat looks like in fish and only the red zebra got a large belly. Venustus became very quiet and always hiding and seemed stressed before death, no bloat at all and eating fine. Before Ngara Flametail was eaten, it seemed like he was guarding one hole in the rocks near a larger cave. He was having problems fighting with Red Top Hongi.


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## gtphale (Oct 12, 2008)

Well you were warned about mixing mbuna with haps and peacocks. My guess is that these are the problem childern

Afra Cobue 
Demasoni 
Joanjohnsonae 
Red Top Hongi 
Red Zebra 
Rusty


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Fish with bloat are not always swollen. Just as often they are emaciated. It's just that bloat does tend to take a fish every few weeks or months for a long time after the first case.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

Do you think I should treat the 120 gallon tank with clout?


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

The Venustus was not emaciated he was hiding for a couple days before death, but was still eating just not coming to the surface. So far, I have not fed them and are letting them fast for 24 to 36 hours. All fishes feces look good no white stringy stuff just light brown. I am feeding them OSI Spirulina flakes and small pellet floating and sinking pellet food. I also feed them dried brine shrimp with spirulina only once a week as a treat. Is this okay to prevent bloat? I feed them about 3 times a day enough for them to eat between 30 seconds - 1 minute each feeding.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What about the snow white and the flametail? I thought in an earlier post you said the venustus was not eating?

Keep an eye on anyone who is hiding. Try to see why. If they aren't sick, they are afraid.

As long as you see every fish eat every day you should be OK. It's unusual that the venustus ate one day and was dead the next with no symptoms. No I would not treat until a diagnosis is made.

I think something is going on and you just have not figured out what as yet.

What is your current stock list? What are the dimensions of the 240G?


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

current stock list is:
Demasoni 
Electric Yellow 
Joanjohnsonae 
Red Top Hongi 
Rusty 
Snow White

*Premium:* (3 inches) 
Aristo Yellow Blaze (zimbawe rock) 
Borleyi Mbenji 
Hap. Insignus. 
Hap. Pheno 
Venustus

Blue Neon Chiwindi 
Chiloelo Red Shoulder 
Ngara Flametail (Mdoka Yellow) 
Sunshine Peacock Benga Yellow 
Yellow Collar Peacock 
Albino Lemon Jake 
Blue Azures

Venustus didn't eat a few times, mostly looked stressed and scared. He was always hiding in a cave. Sorry it Snow White and Flametail(I think it was Flametail) both got attacked. Snow white being the smallest in the tank(only about 1.5 inches) lived after I wripped him out of the other fish'es mouth. The dimensions of the tank are 2' x 2' x 4'. Albino lemon jake hides a lot, but I think this is common for them when the lights are on. 
Thanks for your help.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd remove the mbuna and any of the peacocks and haps that look alike. This would be on the theory that your tank is experiencing some aggression-related stress which is causing hiding (venustus, jake), attacks (snow white, ngara) and susceptibility to disease (zebra, venustus).

I would not say it's common for a fish to hide while the lights are on unless it's nocturnal.

Try feeding once/daily and as much as they will eat in 30 seconds.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

Just out of curiousity, why feed them only once daily? Won't this cause more aggression because they are hungry?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Feeding fish less usually is healthier. Once daily helps to feed fish less. IME I have not seen aggression increase when fish are hungry.


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

Also, overfeeding gives harmful bacteria a place to grow as the uneaten food and fecal matter decompose


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

So, my Albino Lemon Jake died over the weekend. He had red veins around his eye and mouth area and a little bloated. Granted, the fish that have died thus far looked the weakest in the tank when they were received. These were the Red Zebra and Albino Lemon Jake. Someone please help me with what's going on. Tank size 120 gallon 2x2x4.

The Red Top Hongi and the Rusty both have black spots around there mouth, but I think it is mainly from a mostly Spirulina diet. No, red soars accompany these and they seem fine. They've had them for about 3 weeks now.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You need to diagnose the disease that is residing in your tank. That requires careful daily observation which may be easier now that the holidays are over.

Make sure you see each fish eating every day. While watching them eat (sit there for 5-10 minutes until you see every fish), observe poop to ensure it's thick/dark and not white/thready.

Get your hospital tank cycled and if a fish even is suspected of having an issue, put the fish in the hospital tank for closer observation and treatment, and also to quarantine the sick fish from the rest of the hopefully healthy fish.

What is your pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates?

Once you have disease cured, then you probably want to address your stocking. I think plenty of advice has been given on that topic.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

ph-8.2
ammonia-0
nitrites-0
nitrates-about 20 as of last night

It seems like everyone eats, no stragglers except Snow White stays in the cave and feeds on the food that sinks to the bottom, but still eats. I watch them often and there poop. It is usually a thick green/brown color, once in a while white and stringy, but not often. There also is a few black spots on the blue azures body and tail, but not raised or red soars and he seems to be doing fine to. Growing pretty rapidly I might add.

Is hiding at the top back corners of the tank a concern? Demasoni does this sometimes, breathing seems fine during this and if I try to catch him he isn't lethargic about it, goes and hides in a cave for awhile.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes, hiding near surface or behind filter intakes and heaters is a sign of stress. I would go ahead and make the stocking changes that were suggested to try for a mix that will put less stress on your fish, they will be healthier.

Yes, you can't catch a sick fish until he is near dead and already infecting the tank...don't let their liveliness fool you.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

I think if I put Demasoni, Red Top Hongi, and Snow White in another tank, I think this will be better, considering there always the ones fighting or starting it. Especially Red Top Hongi, he is one of the major culprits of the stress.
What smallest size tank do you suggest for these 3 mbunas?

The mbuna left in the tank would be 1 Yellow Lab, and 1 Rusty.

I did want to end up with 10-12 fish by the time they are fully mature, so I could leave them all in there and have it be "survival of the fittest", but that seems pretty mean.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

55G for the mbuna.

Problem with survival of the fittest, it is often disease that kills the fish and that is not so much the "fittest" that survive the diseases.


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## nick0604 (Oct 30, 2009)

Well, I don't have a 55G. I am noticing that Melanchromis Joanjohnsonae looks more female than male in coloring. Is this okay with an all male tank?


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## justinf67 (Jul 19, 2009)

Reread your question. If it is female, it does not belong in an all male tank. If you are sure, u need to remove her.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

nick0604 said:


> I am noticing that Melanchromis Joanjohnsonae looks more female than male in coloring. Is this okay with an all male tank?


It may be a male that is sub-dominant to other males in your tank. He could be taking on female coloring to "hide" from the more dominant males. But definitely if you confirm he is a she you would want to remove her.


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