# Moving African Cichlids



## harryhoudini (Sep 11, 2017)

Hello all,

This is my first post, so i'll introduce myself. I am a US ExPat currently living in Germany. I recently scored an awesome deal on a complete Cichlid setup. For everything I paid €250 or roughly $300 USD. The set up includes:

•	375 Liter / 85 Gallon glass aquarium. Dimensions: 50 cm High x 50 cm Deep x 150 cm Long. 
•	Aquarium Stand
•	CristalProfi 1501 greenline external filter
•	36W AquaCristal UV-C Series II Water Clarifier;
•	Tetra APS 300 Air Pump;
•	Two JBL ProTemp S300 Aquarium heaters; 
•	Multiple Aquarium stones for Cichlids and Live Plants planted in wood and stone; 
•	Water Test Kits; 
•	Food for Cichlids & Bottom fish; 
•	35 Fish ranging from Medium to Large Colorful African Cichlids, Bottom Fish and snails.

My only issue now is the logistics of bringing everything (and everyone) home. I live about a 45 minute drive away from where the fish are currently located. I did some lurking on the forum before posting this and many people seemed successful with their moves. I guess I am really here to talk through the move and set up of the tank. I am terrified that I am going to shock the fish and kill them all within a few days of ownership.

I have owned smaller tanks in the past, but I have always done fishless cycles over the course of a week or so. I have never added fish to an aquarium that had an uncycled ecosystem. I should also add this is my first time with tropical fish/ fish that require a heated tank. At the end of the day I am trying to simplify this process and think of it as a 75% water change.

My plan now is to purchase four 66 liter / 17.4 gallon plastic bins and empty the fish, gravel, large stones, plants, decorations, and about 20-30 gallons worth of water between the containers to make the aquarium light as possible for movement.

Everything will be loaded into the bed of a truck and secured to the best of my ability. I don't plan on using any air pumps or heaters for the duration of the trip because I think I can get the tank set up within a few hours upon arrival.

Right now the plan is to not wash the gravel, the filter, or any of the decorations to maintain as much of the essence of the old ecosystem as possible. Once I have the tank secure in its new location I'll add the gravel, decorations, old water, the new treated water, and tank components.

One of my concerns is the water temperature difference between the plastic bins and the new tank. I am thinking I should first put the fish in plastic bags THEN put them in the bins to make the transition easier from bin to tank and allow the fish to adjust to the water. Once the fish float in the new tank for about 30-45 minutes and I'm feeling brave I plan to open the bags and let them into their new environment.

After set up and releasing the fish how long should I let the tank sit before actually washing everything?

Comments? Criticisms? Please tell me anything you think I should know. I have also added pictures for your viewing pleasure. We can argue about overstocking at a later date. Other than that, all input is appreciated!


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Hoping that you are open to suggestions? Not meaning to sound critical but just a different view, perhaps. 
I move lots of cichlids but not too many tanks that require the fish to go back in very soon as I have existing tanks for the new arrivals. The fish is where I see potential for accidents so I go at it as if I were going to ship them. 
I use a bag that is large enough and as many bags as seems needed for the number of fish. It hard spots, I have even used trashcan liners but they tend to be thin. Whatever bag I use if the fish are large or have hard fins, I double the bags at least, sometimes even triple for catfish! Old water is often simply old water that is already semi-dirty so I ditch and go for clean water. Fill each bag only enough to give the size fish swimming water but the rest is left for air. It is not water needed but air in the water for the short trips. Close and seal the bags as if you were shipping. Seal the first bag, turn it upside down in the second bag. This makes the corners smooth out in a way that a fish doesn't get head down and be abused by the other fish! I twist the bag top and add a rubber band around the neck, then fold the neck and finish fastening with the rubber band or another if large. 
These bags, then go into a box which gives structure to protect the bags. Styro boxes are nice if you want to drop by a big box store to buy some cheap ones or possibly pick some up from a friendly LFS? But temp is not critical for a few hours if they are somewhere near the temp you like. Back seat of a car but not the floor which can get hot? Bagged and boxed they are ready in case of the accident or super quick stop. Buckets can work when all goes well but can kill everything if they get tipped! 
Cichlids are tough and can take lots of abuse that other fish can't so small problem like water are not as important as keeping that water in good shape. 
The filter is important for that. If you can mange to keep the filter media wet and at a moderate temp and some water movement, that is the prize. Car movement will be enough to get O2 to the bacteria as well as mixed in the fish water. Lots of water sloshing at normal car movement. Good if the fish are not fed for a couple days before and perhaps after the move. It cuts pollution in the bag if they are not producing waste! A bit of Safe, Prime, etc. in the bags is some value as well. 
Protect the fish, protect the bacteria and set it back up within 12 hours and you should be golden. However do monitor the ammonia, nitrite, and temp for a few days to a week as things are prone to being upset. Simply turning the gravel over during the move will have buried a fair amount of the bacteria there and it will die so doing more than normal water changes at first is important. Be somewhat slower, more gentle with the cleaning for a while until the bacteria fully recovers.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Looking at the pictures a bit more, might give me pause. There is on fish which I would watch very closely for aggression. This is the one that I often find in the "assorted cichlid" tank and wish I could stop them from selling to the new innocent buyer! 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=750
I find them very bad actors and the yellow lab is a very gentle mbuna. Just be aware that there may be trouble at some point in the future---but that is always true of any fish!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I do use an air stone even for a 45 minute ride to/from the LFS when I am bringing them fish. Can't hurt. I have had fatalities transporting in buckets...let alone the several hour wait upon arrival for set up.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Shipping or hauling fish is always going to be an estimate. Several things are at play at the same time so it has to figure all the variables. How big and how many fish in how much water and how much air for how long are some of the first items to think about. Fish are certainly able to be shipped and stay in bags and boxes for days without harm. But the person shipping has to judge how many of what size to put in each bag. In moving, since we don't have to pay extra for larger or more bags, I do not try to cut corners and put a bunch of fish in any one bag. For the normal size adult African cichlid, I favor no more than three per bag as there is just no reason to take a hit due to shorting the space. For 20 adults, I might go for 10 bags. No extra charge for using more bags. Since it is impossible to pump air into a sealed bag, I would rather make sure the water stayed in and not worry the loss of air. They may run short of air and die but I am certain they die if they run out of water through a leaking bag. Each bag should have about 1/3 water and 2/3 air. If that is not enough water for the fish to swim upright, use a bigger bag.


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## harryhoudini (Sep 11, 2017)

PfunMo said:


> Looking at the pictures a bit more, might give me pause. There is on fish which I would watch very closely for aggression. This is the one that I often find in the "assorted cichlid" tank and wish I could stop them from selling to the new innocent buyer!
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=750
> I find them very bad actors and the yellow lab is a very gentle mbuna. Just be aware that there may be trouble at some point in the future---but that is always true of any fish!


Thank you. That is all really helpful. I will have to check with my local fish store and see if they have any bags avaiable. If not do you think these bags are suitable? https://www.amazon.com/18-24-mil-Pl...qid=1505191872&sr=1-3&keywords=Flat+Poly+Bags?


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## harryhoudini (Sep 11, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> I do use an air stone even for a 45 minute ride to/from the LFS when I am bringing them fish. Can't hurt. I have had fatalities transporting in buckets...let alone the several hour wait upon arrival for set up.


Thank you for your input. I have to do some more homework on airstones, but it may not be feasible for me given the timeline.


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## harryhoudini (Sep 11, 2017)

PfunMo said:


> Looking at the pictures a bit more, might give me pause. There is on fish which I would watch very closely for aggression. This is the one that I often find in the "assorted cichlid" tank and wish I could stop them from selling to the new innocent buyer!
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=750
> I find them very bad actors and the yellow lab is a very gentle mbuna. Just be aware that there may be trouble at some point in the future---but that is always true of any fish!


Actually my next step was going to be to get pictures of all of the fish and identify them with a little help from you more experienced owners. There are actually two bala sharks in the tank as well :?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Post the pics in the Unidentified forum.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

harryhoudini said:



> Thank you. That is all really helpful. I will have to check with my local fish store and see if they have any bags avaiable. If not do you think these bags are suitable? https://www.amazon.com/18-24-mil-Pl...qid=1505191872&sr=1-3&keywords=Flat+Poly+Bags?


No, I would not use those bags as they aren't thick enough, I recommend bags that are at least 3 mil thick. Usually a fish store will sell you bags for a fairly reasonable amount.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Anybody else that is not seeing the pictures that were there earlier?


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

me, i do not see them...


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## harryhoudini (Sep 11, 2017)

PfunMo said:


> Anybody else that is not seeing the pictures that were there earlier?


I dont think google likes hosting images.

Here is a link to my google photos album

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN ... 5PRy03NjZB


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Sometimes the internet just doesn't like anything we do? 
Oh, well. The pictures are much better anyway. Nice group of fish but do keep in mind that they do bear more watching when first learning to "read" the way they act. Things to watch are how each fish may react to trouble. One who doesn't come to eat, hangs out in a corner or near the top may be getting a bit too much stress. Stress is something I try hard to avoid as it seems to be a trigger for troubles later. Given time, you may spot signs that these fish do really learn a lot more than expected. They will come to know you from other people and that may extend down to details like having a hat on or not! Watch and learn about the fish and know that they are learning from you. If food arrives at the same time each day, they will learn to tell time??? 
Meanwhile a question? There is a nice looking fish just below your hand as the first 19sec? video starts. Blue tinted face and "peach" colored with a black horizontal line? Also in the second vid, near the bottom just right of the small pot. Got a name for that guy, yet? =D>


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## harryhoudini (Sep 11, 2017)

PfunMo said:


> Sometimes the internet just doesn't like anything we do?
> Oh, well. The pictures are much better anyway. Nice group of fish but do keep in mind that they do bear more watching when first learning to "read" the way they act. Things to watch are how each fish may react to trouble. One who doesn't come to eat, hangs out in a corner or near the top may be getting a bit too much stress. Stress is something I try hard to avoid as it seems to be a trigger for troubles later. Given time, you may spot signs that these fish do really learn a lot more than expected. They will come to know you from other people and that may extend down to details like having a hat on or not! Watch and learn about the fish and know that they are learning from you. If food arrives at the same time each day, they will learn to tell time???
> Meanwhile a question? There is a nice looking fish just below your hand as the first 19sec? video starts. Blue tinted face and "peach" colored with a black horizontal line? Also in the second vid, near the bottom just right of the small pot. Got a name for that guy, yet? =D>


I'm actually really excited to have fish again for this very reason. They all have their own personalities. I havnt thought about names for any of the fish yet. Do you have any suggestions?


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Hope you do mean the "official" names. I don't ever get so friendly with my fish that I give too many a name like Harry or Sam. I find too many that I may want to chuck out in the street to get on first name basis! 
Real names as a guess as it really is hard to tell at times from simply looking? We can start with the bright yellow with possible black stripes on fins as being yellow labs 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=713
Lots of small varied colors, etc. depending on where they are collected. 
The guy I don't like as a bad guy is Melanochromis aurautas. Dark colored with horizontal stripes and color which will likely change as it ages. 
Blue with the red face is almost sure to be one of the peacock group. Not an expert on telling one from the other. They come in many varieties but general behavior is much the same. More open water type than mbuna who are "rock fish". 
Your last photo:
Vertical stripes behind the orange guy? http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1911
Lab "Hongi" with lots of various color forms
This is also a possible ID for some of those
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=810
The orange guy might be a Metraclima??? lots of types and colors. 
Maybe only a place to start on naming. Best of luck as it may require autopsies to prove the true story!


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