# 55 Gallon *Possibly*



## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

Hello, new here! I've been keeping fish for about 8 months  I have a 2 gallon, 5.5 gallon, and a 25 gallon. I was at the lfs getting some new fish for my 25 gallon, and the 5.5 for a Betta, and my mom was almost begging me get some Mbuna and a Blood Parrot. I told her no way in my tank, they're too big. She always complains about my tanks (even though they are in my room :lol: ) and when she was trying to get me to buy those fish she opened up a perfect excuse to get a new *big* tank  My dream tank would be a 55 gallon with lots of rocks, a few pieces of branchy DW, and have a few live plants. My dream stocking would be two Blood Parrots, and 10-12 Mawali/Mbuna (I'm a newb with these guys so bear with me) cichlids. I've been stalking this forum for a few days, and I've realized, lot's of people have this set up, and it works! Now, I know that BP are supposed to be kept with peaceful fish because of their mouths, but I think I have a plan that would work  My plan would be: Add LOTS or rock work, clay pots, a few pieces of driftwood, and some plants. That way there would be plenty of hiding places. I would also add the BP first, so when I add the other cichlids, they haven't got any territory yet. 
I'm home most of the time (we live on a farm and I am homeschooled) so I am able to watch my tanks a lot to make sure everything is okay. And if it doesn't work out, I have a couple places available to move fish if need be. 
I have been thinking this would be an okay think to try, but I would like to get your guys' opinions first.

Thanks!

Sydney


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

Anyone have any opinion on this?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Scottyhorse said:


> Anyone have any opinion on this?


Patience grasshopper.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

Fogelhund said:


> Scottyhorse said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone have any opinion on this?
> ...


Okay....


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Can you post some links of threads from Members saying they have his mix of blood parrots and mbuna and it has been working for over a year?

From my recollection of reading the posts since 2005 I feel there are very mixed results.


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## live bait (Mar 2, 2007)

For what it's worth, here's my two cents....

If your mom wants a blood parrot, let her buy her own tank. Of the hundreds and hundreds of fish available in the hobby, the blood parrot is not a very good choice, and definitely not a good choice for a mbuna tank. And remember, if at first you don't succeed, sky diving's not for you.


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## tapout14 (May 30, 2012)

live bait said:


> And remember, if at first you don't succeed, sky diving's not for you.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumb: 
I just laughed so loud my wife looked at me like I'm stupid. This made my night!!!!!

And in my experience blood parrots should be kept alone. I had 2 in a 55 gallon with some neon tetras and some tiger barbs and that even did not work. Before you old timers get on my case that was my first time ever keeping fish and have learned a lot since then 10 years ago


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

Check out CL for tanks, sometimes there's great deals on 55 gals and larger!

I'm glad you know better than to put mbuna in your existing tanks, people put them in small tanks all the time with poor results. They really do best with other mbuna, with very limited exceptions. One nice thing about them is that you can put a bunch of them together, 12-20 will fit in a 55 depending on the mix.

There is some controversy about blood parrots concerning the ethics of creating an animal with deformities that cause it hardship.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> Can you post some links of threads from Members saying they have his mix of blood parrots and mbuna and it has been working for over a year?
> 
> From my recollection of reading the posts since 2005 I feel there are very mixed results.


On my phone so I can't post links. There's a few videos on YouTube, and Google search "Blood Parrots with Mbuna" ans you will get a few results.

I have also found mixed results, but I thought it would be worth asking so I can ask me own questions.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

live bait said:


> For what it's worth, here's my two cents....
> 
> If your mom wants a blood parrot, let her buy her own tank. Of the hundreds and hundreds of fish available in the hobby, the blood parrot is not a very good choice, and definitely not a good choice for a mbuna tank. And remember, if at first you don't succeed, sky diving's not for you.


 :lol: :lol: That's what I told her, but she wanted to put them in my tank anyways. She said she doesn't want mold all over the house, but I think that's her excuse for not wanting to put up a tank. :roll:

I would love to sky dive though :wink:


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

brinkles said:


> Check out CL for tanks, sometimes there's great deals on 55 gals and larger!
> 
> I'm glad you know better than to put mbuna in your existing tanks, people put them in small tanks all the time with poor results. They really do best with other mbuna, with very limited exceptions. One nice thing about them is that you can put a bunch of them together, 12-20 will fit in a 55 depending on the mix.
> 
> There is some controversy about blood parrots concerning the ethics of creating an animal with deformities that cause it hardship.


I've been thinking about doing a 55 with just Mbuna, but I think I will wait until there is a sink in the basement... Hauling 5 gallon buckets down the *steep* stairs is no fun even on my 25.. I can't imagine doing that on a 55


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would not combine mbuna and blood parrots. And I would get a Python to do water changes instead of buckets. The Python works up/down stairs with no problem.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

Okay I will not mix then. 
If I do do a 55 with mbuna, what kind of cichlids should I get? I'd like to do easy to find and colorful cichlids. Don't care what their temperament is.

Yesterday I got 1 male and 1 female German Blue Ram


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The rams are in a separate tank I hope?

Yellow labs (Labidochromis caeruleus) are almost always available and extremely colorful. Will you want to keep fry from the tank? In order to keep fry you really need to have other cycled tanks available to raise them so that might impact your decision.

If you are not keeping fry then Metriaclima estherae is also easy to find a colorful.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

Yes the rams are in my 25 :wink:

I think it would be fun to have some fry, would a 10/15G cycled tank be okay until I can sell them?

Also, I obviously wouldn't want a tank full of yellow labs. But they would be a part of it for sure, because they are very pretty  What else could I put in with them?

I'll look up the others you mentioned, thank you!


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

On live aquaria, I found some I like and I would also like your guys' opinions on them and wether or not they would be an easy to find fish..... If not I think my lfs can order most fish I want 

Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos
Labidochromis caeruleus
Metriaclima lombardoi
Metriaclima estherae
Aulonocara sp. Red
Aulonocara sp. Yellow

You get the idea.. LOL but I would still love suggestions. Also, could I keep a pleco in there? Or something else to eat any algae?

Thanks again


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You would want at least a 20G to raise a single batch of fry to selling size.

Since you want color you may not want Aulonocara since only the male is colorful. Malawi are kept 1m:4f so you would have 4 brown/silver fish for each colorful one. There are mbuna that have both males and females that are colorful.

Lombardoi and cyaneorhabdos are too aggressive for your tank size.

You want either the caeruleus or the estherae if you want to save fry...kept together they will crossbreed.

A bristlenose pleco will help eat algae, but best to keep a clean tank to minimize algae and scrape weekly when you do water changes.

How about Labidochromis caeruleus, Iodotropheus sprengerae and Pseudotropheus socolofi? 1m:4f of each.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

I like the labs and socolofi! Not sure about the sprengerae though. It's pretty, but, I might want something another color? Like red or green, so I can have a nice mix? Even if I can't, I think that would be a good mix!

So I have a couple questions about these guys.. If they decide to breed, I was thinking of leaving some of the fry in the tank, and some in another tank to raise. 
Also, where can I order sexed fish? I'm thinking or asking The Wet Spot if they do, but since m/f are the same color, it might be kind of hard!


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

Melanochromis auratus? 1 Male/4 Female? They are pretty!


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

Never mind about that one, seems too aggressive..


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There really isn't a true red or green mbuna. The Metriaclima estherae are orange/red...probably the closest thing. Maybe you could switch your yellow fish to something else?

Usually with mbuna they are not sold sexed...many vendors will guess but it may not be a guarantee. So what we do in buy unsexed juveniles and we buy extras so we get enough females. Like buy 8 fish to have a 50% chance of getting 4 females and then rehome the extra males when they mature.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> There really isn't a true red or green mbuna. The Metriaclima estherae are orange/red...probably the closest thing. Maybe you could switch your yellow fish to something else?
> 
> Usually with mbuna they are not sold sexed...many vendors will guess but it may not be a guarantee. So what we do in buy unsexed juveniles and we buy extras so we get enough females. Like buy 8 fish to have a 50% chance of getting 4 females and then rehome the extra males when they mature.


Hmm... I would like to keep the yellow labs and the third one, probably not the second 'bronze' one. I got a PM from another member on here. A link to website with a cichlid (and other fish) seller in Florida who apparently sells sexed fish. The link is <vendor name removed>. Would aqua-bid be an okay place to look?

Thanks for all the help, I'm starting to get kinda excited about this.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The reason he sent you a PM was Cichlid-forum wants to keep vendor/buy-sell-wanted/review type information out of the forums. PMs are OK. I edited the post to remove the vendor name so the rest of the post can remain.

The #1 factor in choosing a vendor is reputation in the industry. If you are very familiar with the aqua-bid vendors that is a great place to look.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> The reason he sent you a PM was Cichlid-forum wants to keep vendor/buy-sell-wanted/review type information out of the forums. PMs are OK. I edited the post to remove the vendor name so the rest of the post can remain.
> 
> The #1 factor in choosing a vendor is reputation in the industry. If you are very familiar with the aqua-bid vendors that is a great place to look.


Thank you for removing that, like I said, new here!

I know of one, and they have a large selection. Now I just need to pick out a third species.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Some suggestions based on a standard 48" x 12" 55 gallon tank.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_55g.php

3 species of mbuna that mature under 6" is the norm.

yellow/white labs, cyno afra/zebroides/sp. hara, rusty is a combo you could try.

Try to avoid just buying random fish that look cool. You'll end up with a hodge podge of fish that probably won't work. Also consider the amount of filtration needed. A quality canister with a HOB would work. Aim for 7-10 times gph of the tank's volume.


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## tapout14 (May 30, 2012)

The pm I sent you of the site sponser will sex for you so that you don't waste money and you get the ratio you want. And there is no extra charge for it. They did it for me and all fish came happy and healthy and are already breeding in my tank


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Whooops... did not know there was a second page to this thread. Some of my 'advice' has already been given. My bad.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Some suggestions based on a standard 48" x 12" 55 gallon tank.
> 
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_55g.php
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link, I will have to check those fish out. And regarding your other post, it's all good! It's good to hear two people recommending the same thing :wink:


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

tapout14 said:


> The pm I sent you of the site sponser will sex for you so that you don't waste money and you get the ratio you want. And there is no extra charge for it. They did it for me and all fish came happy and healthy and are already breeding in my tank


Cool Thanks


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

opcorn:

Curious to see how all this ends up.

PS...if you are dreaming about a tank I would dream bigger. 125/240g or bust baby!!


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

13razorbackfan said:


> opcorn:
> 
> Curious to see how all this ends up.
> 
> PS...if you are dreaming about a tank I would dream bigger. 125/240g or bust baby!!


Haha, me too.

Yeah, I'll get a 125... Then be killed by my mother :lol: I'll have to see how just the 55 plays out... Someday I will have a HUGE tank, but not any time soon. Maybe when I have a job, my own house, and no parents to complain about who much money and time I spend on my 'too big' tank. It's only 25 gallons. :lol:


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

So what about this stock?
5 Yellow Labs 1m/4f
5 P. Socolfofi 1m/4f
5 Labidochromis textilis 1m/4f?
or
Metriaclima estherae 1m/4f
or
Petrotilapia sp. "Chitimba Bay" 1m/4f
or
Pseudotropheus sp."Perspicax Orange Cap" 1m/4f
or
Pseudotropheus polit 1m/4f
or
????


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

Petrotilapia, Perspicax, and polit are supposed to be very aggressive, but I've never kept them.

Textilis is very rare, but Lab. joanjohnsonae is very similar and available. I kept them with yellow labs for awhile, and they ignored each other. They don't get too big, and the females look like textilis while the males look like socolofi.

How about Yellow labs/joanjohnsonae/M. greshekei?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Polit is aggressive, but also may not color up well unless they are dominant, which they might not be with socolofi.

Agree with brinkles on the petrotilapis and perspicax...you want a bigger tank for those.

What about a Cynotilapia afra species with your labs and socolofi?


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

I really like the Jalo Reef Afra... What is your opinion on that one?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Good choice. 1m:4f.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

Cool. I thought that one looked interesting.

So now that I have my stock figured out, what kind of filter and lights would be best? (I'm not going to have any live plants)


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The fish do not need lights, so the fixture that comes with the aquarium will be fine. I like canister filters because they are quiet, but a hang on back power filter works too. Try for at least 7X hourly turnover from your filter or filters...some people like as much as 10X hourly.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

I was thinking of a canister filter, but the media options seem a little confusing and daunting...

This build will probably get started at the end of this year... *sigh* I'm going to have to make a pond for a couple goldfish that were left here. I'll just do extra yard work at my neighbors, ad that to my chore money, and any money I will gain from selling RCS and plants, hopefully I can get that done quickly and move onto the tanks I actually _wanted_ and _planned_ for... At least this kit is only $130, so hopefully I can get that much saved up quickly enough!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Hang on back power filters cost less and do the job. Good luck!


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## tapout14 (May 30, 2012)

Look at the fluval C4 as an potion for a hob filter I have 2 on my 55 and I got them cheap at the big box store that sounds like (fet fart) lol....


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

Hehe... I will look at that one for sure. Someday I will graduate to canister filters, but not yet!


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 5, 2013)

Also, for rock work, I was planning on 'stealing' some rocks from out side. They're dark grey, and once they get cleaned up I think they will look perfect. How do you go about cleaning larg-ish rocks anyways?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

First, choose an outside place that has never been sprayed with pesticides. Then I use the sink, hot water and a wire scrub brush.

If there is growth or bugs on the rocks (or you are worried there might be, even if you can't see anything) you might want to consider boiling or soaking in bleach (followed by dechlorinator of course).


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## evenningstar (Feb 26, 2013)

brinkles said:


> Check out CL for tanks, sometimes there's great deals on 55 gals and larger!
> 
> I'm glad you know better than to put mbuna in your existing tanks, people put them in small tanks all the time with poor results. They really do best with other mbuna, with very limited exceptions. One nice thing about them is that you can put a bunch of them together, 12-20 will fit in a 55 depending on the mix.
> 
> There is some controversy about blood parrots concerning the ethics of creating an animal with deformities that cause it hardship.


We had a 55 with cichlid Mbuna and had about 12.. I was told there were too many and had to get rid of some  Is really 12-20 okay? If so, someone is going on my list! lol


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Depending on which species you choose, 15 is a good number for mixed genders. If you choose demasoni you might go as high as 20. If you do all-male then you would be thinking about 8-10 individuals. As brinkles said...depending on the mix.


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