# My Africa Cichlid is sick. Please help.



## SarahJaxs (Aug 25, 2015)

Hi Everyone. I am new to this site and to caring for fish period. I recently was given a tank that was already stocked with 4 African Cichlids. Over the weeks I have grown quite fond of them. I know their little personalities, if fish can have them, and I care about them a lot. Today, when I woke up, my bright yellow fish, who was the dominate fish in the tank, is acting like he cant breathe and letting the other fish attack it. I took him out and put him in a tank by him self, changed about 70% or the tank water where the other fish are, but he is still acting strange. He usually chases the other fish then goes back into his cave but today he is by the heater sticking his mouth out trying to breathe. Why? He has a big white spot on his body, but no salt looking white spots on his fins. My husband thinks the white spot is from the other fish biting him, but I don't think so. I think he is sick. What can I treat the tank with or what should I do? Is there a place I can take the fish where they can fix him?


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## klimarov (May 12, 2015)

white spot is most likely from biting, you will notice it on other fish from time to time when they try to re-establish hierarchy.

Now to the tank, how big are they? almost sound like 10g, which is too small for cichlids, so they would fight until last one one stands.

Since you just go the tank, i bet it was not carried in to you cycled. so the bio cycle is most likely only establishing right now, this can take from a month to two. While it happens so, you should be doing partial water changes every day, 15-30% i'd say. Bio cycle = food/poop turns into ammonia, ammonia digested by bacteria which poops nitrites, nitrites in turn get eaten by another bacteria which poops nitrates (through A). Nitrates are thrown out with water changes. Basically ammonia and nitrites are very poisonous to fish, while cycle is not established, water accumulates each, until enough grown bacteria shows up to eat it. so you do daily water changes to make sure there not enough poop to kill fish yet, enough for bacteria to cultivate. Also fish always suffocates from ammonia build ups, so this is another point that shows water is not cycled.

I'd suggest getting a test kit for chemicals, 30$ off ebay. do the water changes, don't forget to add de-chlorifier. Make sure tank has good aeration (through water or air pump). While tank is cycled, don't overfeed, do it only once a day, like 1/4 of tea spoon of flakes for example. Good rule is not to overfeed in total.

Lastly, good oxygenation and clean tank, always reduces fish' stress and therefore reduces aggressiveness.


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## klimarov (May 12, 2015)

can't edit that post already.

have few questions to further help. you got fish tank with fish, what else was given? 
air pump? 
water pump? 
filter (biological, mechanical, both, or canister)? 
was media given (ceramic pellets, charcoal)? 
de-chlorination solution given? 
how big is the tank?


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## SarahJaxs (Aug 25, 2015)

Its a ten gallon tank. Yes it has a filter. I have been doing water changes at 30% once a week. I have Aquasafe plus, easycare to balance ph, alkalinity, essential elements and vitamins, and a water clarifier. My husbands boss who is really into fish and, who has had these fish for two years in this same tank, gave them to us because he moved on to a different species, piranha to be exact. So it was either take them in, or call them piranha food. The heater is automatic and only has one setting, 80 degrees or I would have pushed it to 85. I have been looking at him closer now and notice that his top fin, the one that runs along his spine is very damaged and there is white patches there as well. Through the research I have been doing online and videos I have been watching, the tanks has ick. I am going to treat the tank and the hospital tank with the medicine for the next week or so and see if it changes. I will look into getting that testing kit tonight. As for feeding, I only feed once a day. There is a big fish, I think its a female because it is ugly in color, like mud, comes up to the surface each and every time I go to the tank or anywhere near it so I give her one flake as a "treat" when she does that. Its funny actually, she will stick her entire head out of the water when its feeding time until I put some food in the tank. I love it. Anyhow, the strange thing is, even with all the pictures to confirm he has ick, none of the other fish have symptoms or spots. I am not sure what is going on with him. He is always in that cave decoration, doesnt let any other fish near it and moved all the rocks around it away so it is nothing but glass. Is that normal?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

The dominant fish usually does claim the best rock, or cave to hide in and defend... quite normal.

However, a 10 gallon aquarium is completely insufficient for these fish. Depending to the species, most of these fish need to be kept in at least a 4ft 55 gallon, with a 75 gallon being preferred. As these fish grow and mature, it is probable the dominant one will kill off the others in a 10 gallon.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

True about the 10G. Would you consider a bigger tank?

As to what is wrong with the sick fish, it does not sound like ich because you say it's not like salt grains.

Is the white patch on his side big? Google columnaris and see if that is what it looks like.

Columnaris is hard to treat. There are no fish doctors. If the 10G cannot change, even if you cure the illness, as soon as you put him back in the tank, he could get sick again.

What are your test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?


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## klimarov (May 12, 2015)

well, that's a lot more info. however still lacking some.

is tank actually Bio cycled? or just clean as for 4-5 days, it play big difference. Bio cycle is when bacteria is cultivated and process the waste. 
Considering it's 10g and you have cichlids, there will be aggression, if you could post pictures of cichlids it would help, but if no way to get a bigger tank, you'll need heavy decor to break aggression. I had 10g with 2 cichlids and they were killing each other, a yellow lab and red zebra, that was my start back then. Overstocking does not really works in small tank (overstocking supposedly break aggression).

As for decor, you need to position rocks in such a way that fish is nearly always is out of sight of each other.

Can't suggest much on the disease, if it's a disease, however if fin looks like it was damaged by bites of other tank mates (ripped in various spots), this will heal on it's own and yes it give slightly transparent white things there tailing. Most diseases also can be cured with regular freshwater salt, including ich, that how i treated mine. Fish in the tank will kill weakest link for the most part, so they all have to stay strong and healthy.

Filter, what is it exactly? is it an in-tank box with small foam section and bottom filled with charcoal/ceramic mix, air tube going through it? if it the one, it's not enough filtration for such stock, for such tank. get cheap one off ebay that hooks up to a side of the tank and does actual filtration, biological and mechanical.

Feeding, you can't give an occasional snack as a treat, fish are cold blooded for the most part, they recognize a feeding hand, but they will eat every time they can get food. overfeeding can cause bloating, also will create ammonia spikes, which can kill fish (fish will show suffocation).

lower water temperature (remember fish are cold blooded), will decrease their metabolism, so they will require less food and will show less aggression. 75-77 degrees would be good for cichlids. you also need to maintain certain PH level for cichlids, 7.6-7.8 range will meet golden middle for pretty much all cichlids (even malawi lake ones).

to sum it up, cycled tank, with heavy decor, over-filtering, some freshwater salt, should resolve the problem.

and the very last, the smaller the tank the easier it is to dis-balance parameters. Much easier to overfeed, which will instantly give an ammonia spike. Big water changes like 50% will get your tank into mini cycle which is bad and if you replace all water the tank will restart the bio cycle. I had it all happen when i had a 10g, eventually i bought 55g, which now is not enough for the fish i want to keep.


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## SarahJaxs (Aug 25, 2015)

My filter is out of tank. I have treated the hospital tank and the 10g. with the medicine and I will do 25% water changes along with more medicine ever 48 hours then introduce the carbon back into the filter, which is not an in-tank box, but rather with the white stones under neath some mesh looking filter, the tube is in the water but the actual filter is outside of the tank. Not sure of the name of the filter. This is my first tank and experience with cichlids. The sick fish is a yellow lab. He is still alive but separated from the other fish. I am glad I was keeping an eye on them all this time to know when they were acting unusual to catch this sickness. The other fish don't show any signs at all, but I am quite sure it is Ich. Only time will tell now. You say that your red zebra and yellow lab were killing each other. I read that two bright colored fish will fight like that. The yellow lab is the only colored cichlid in the tank. I have a tuxedo cichlid, who stays to him self, and I am not sure what the other ones are. The biggest one is an ugly dark grey with almost goldish-colored rear fin and top fin. Like he was outlined with the goldish color. I do know that they are all cichlids though. I am not sure how to post the picture up here or I would so you could see them. I could possibly get a close up of the yellow lab and the white spot on him.


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## SarahJaxs (Aug 25, 2015)

One more thing, as for positioning the decor in such a way as they all can hide and be out of sight from each other, I tried that. The big cichlid moves the entire center decal/coral in the middle of the night and pushes it up against his cave. I guess he thinks he owns that too. Strange, he doesn't care when the two little cichlids are in his rock free zone. He only really patrols and is aggressive against the yellow lab, who is not in the tank right now, but rather in the hospital tank. I dont know the ph levels, I need to buy the testing kit yet. I will do that this evening and hopefully have it by the weekend.


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## SarahJaxs (Aug 25, 2015)

I checked the columnaris on line and that is definitely not what the yellow lab has. However, I dont see salt like spots either. All other symptoms and signs point to ich though. I am treating the tank for that and we will see if he gets better.


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## klimarov (May 12, 2015)

for decors you need some thing unmovable, sure cichlids like to drag things over the tank, mine do so too, from time to time they dig up my plants as well. they are diggers and grazers(they show up for initial feeding and will keep on looking for food after it, which makes them look hungry). the filter is good than, if it's not the in-tank box (those are bad). I think it's just general cichlid aggression, Too small of a tank for them, you husband's boss could of held them for 2 years while they were juveniles, which would work, but as cichlids grow, their demand for food and territory grows as well.

unfortunately it will be hard to calm them down, if not impossible. Cichlids are aggressive by nature and mbunas (rock dwellers) even more. This is how the hobby starts, you pick interesting fish (with character and most likely aggressive) over community fish (boring fish). That's how i got my self into it too.

Hold lab in hospitality tank and see how he heals up, if all good get him back in and monitor how other fish reacts. By the way, they are smart, they will not attack during day time, maybe light nipping. all assaults happen at night, that's how i lost fish i lost. not a single of my cichlids died to disease, only aggression, and only at night.


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## SarahJaxs (Aug 25, 2015)

You are right about them being smart. Every night I turn off the light in my room, where they are, and that's when I hear them moving rocks and chasing each other, water splashes. The big guy, and I call him "Big Guy", does stay around for food even after hes been fed. I love watching them. My husband can get them all to come to the glass in the tank at the same time, just using his hand outside the tank of course. They are very curious little movers. I do like watching them, they are very interesting, watching the way they behave, a lot different then a gold fish. I'm going to be really upset it the lab dies because I like him, he has a lot of spunk for a fish! It seems she is doing better now. She has come out from her cave in the isolation tank and moving around more than she did all day. However, she moves the most in the evenings and at night. One of the small ones, maybe just 1 inch in size, as ADHD. He zooms back and forth the front of the tank or up and down the side like a rocket on speed, all day. zoom,zoom.zoom. Is that normal behavior too? Thank you for all the information you have given me so far klimarov and everybody else. I have been learning about these little guys all day on line. I never thought I would be into fish, but they have grown on me over the weeks. Do you know how to upload a photo here so maybe you can tell me what kind of cichlids the others are?


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## SarahJaxs (Aug 25, 2015)

These four Cichlids have been sharing the same tank for a couple years, do you think they will eventually "really" assault each other at night?! I suppose they might yeah, because they are getting bigger. I will look into that 75g, I just want to make sure I have everything I need and do more research before I just jump into it. It look like I could end up spending a lot of money on these guys and I want to make sure nothing goes to waste.


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## SarahJaxs (Aug 25, 2015)

What all do I take out of the filter to be sure there is no carbon going on? I took out the white round/tubular stones, but do the sponges at the bottom and the mesh/filter bag at the top come out as well?


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## klimarov (May 12, 2015)

pretty much all filter media including mechanical filtration pads should come out. I did research this forum and many other sides and ended up not using carbon at all, only the ceramic media (round tubular white stones). This help biological filtration a lot more, when carbon looses it's potency over 2 weeks and becomes useless.

The zoom,zoom behavior is normal, that's how they show their strength usually or you can call it flashing. Some times, they would just shake vigorously, another form of flashing (very common in mbunas).

As for pictures, there is a sticky thread on every forum topic with explanation on how to do it. It would be nice to see your cichlids.

Some cichlids don't pair well, even in a big tank, so before you get your self into spending all the money on tank, also research fish stocking/compatibility. My tank is incompatible, however at the moment all cichlids live in peace, this might change as they grow more.


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## SarahJaxs (Aug 25, 2015)

I have a new problem this morning in my hospital tank with the yellow lab. There is this stringy, spider web looking stuff growing on her and all over her cave. I have never seen this before in the 10g and I dont see it in that tank. Is the medicine causing this to happen?


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## SarahJaxs (Aug 25, 2015)

I took some pictures but I dont know how to post them so you can see. What do I do to add the photos. I think you are right and it has columnaris.


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## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

The link below will help with pictures.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=255440


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Locking this topic, continued in the Illness forum.


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