# Feeding African Cichlids - What's OK and What's Not



## Malawi_Marc (Mar 13, 2009)

In the video I describe what types of food are OK for African Cichlids and what types are bad.

Food I forgot to mention in the video that's OK are Brine Shrimp and Krill.

Most African Cichlids including Mbuna will eat fish eg: Small fry. The Larger predators of the Lake ie Haps will eat larger fish, crabs and other encrustations.

Food in the video.
Spirulina
New Life Spectrum Cichlid formula (NLS)
Dainichi Color Supreme and Ultima Krill
New Era Cichlid Pellets African.
Link to home made African Cichlid food below:





Here's The Video Link


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## AFRICAN-FISH (Oct 16, 2011)

I love your videos! Before I started my tank I watched your videos, very helpful!


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## Malawi_Marc (Mar 13, 2009)

AFRICAN-FISH said:


> I love your videos! Before I started my tank I watched your videos, very helpful!


Hi there, that's great to see that I might helped you on your way


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

I would suggest avoiding terrestrial vegetables for fish JM2C. I like to feed Dainichi brand for best results and find NLS to be good also and more affordable but not AS good.


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## Malawi_Marc (Mar 13, 2009)

aquariam said:


> I would suggest avoiding terrestrial vegetables for fish JM2C.


I'm interested in knowing why you would suggest this? :thumb:


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Malawi_Marc said:


> aquariam said:
> 
> 
> > I would suggest avoiding terrestrial vegetables for fish JM2C.
> ...


Digestive system of most aquatic animals is geared to aquatic plants and animals. There are exceptions like archer fish that'll eat crickets etc they knock off leaves. Or fish that will eat fallen fruit from trees that hits the water (some plecos, giant gouramis etc) but for the most part I'd rather Kelp and Spirulina over broccoli and zucchini. Again JM2C not written in stone. To each his own.

Now you may say 'but kelp is SW and you are feeding a FW fish.' Valid argument. At least it is an aquatic vegetable though.

You can feed a giant gourami a flower or a tomato. It's totally able to handle it. Whereas some fish are not able to fully digest that kind of thing. Again JM2C. More a matter of full nutrient absorbtion. Broccoli is full of things like easily uptaken calcium. For mammals. And birds. Fish I am uncertain and would thus avoid this. I'm half speaking out of what I see as logic and half from experience over 10 years.

Then again I know people with Loaches who successfully spawn them on a partial diet of a similar home recipe. It is species/situation dependant. I just mean that I, personally, feed fish 'fish food'. That's all. JM2C.


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## Malawi_Marc (Mar 13, 2009)

Thank you for your detailed reply.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Fish like all living creatures need certain, specific amino acids in their food. The source of them is not important. Most aquaculture foods have very large amounts (proportionally) of food stuffs that aren't remotely aquatic. Those foods are designed for rapid consistent growth as well as reasonable cost. The important ingredient to keep out of fish foods is digestible carbohydrates.


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## johnc (Dec 16, 2011)

I have been keeping tropicals for 50 yrs, Malawii Cichlids for only the last few months.
Your 'what to feed Mbuna' video was the best I have seen and has helped no end


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## BigJag (Sep 26, 2011)

Where do u get that kind of food?? My lfs doesnt carry it. I have a 150 stocked with albino socolofi, cyaneorhabdos, crabro, and lombardoi cichlids. I feed them Omega One small sinking veggie pellets and Cichlid Excel by Hikari. I also supplement with frozen foods such as Cichlid Delight, Emrald Entree, and Brine Shrimp ( once weekly ). Is this okay or should i change it and find NLS food??


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## Malawi_Marc (Mar 13, 2009)

BillD said:


> Fish like all living creatures need certain, specific amino acids in their food. The source of them is not important. Most aquaculture foods have very large amounts (proportionally) of food stuffs that aren't remotely aquatic. Those foods are designed for rapid consistent growth as well as reasonable cost. The important ingredient to keep out of fish foods is digestible carbohydrates.


I'm sure I covered keeping the foods digestible? But thanks


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## Malawi_Marc (Mar 13, 2009)

johnc said:


> I have been keeping tropicals for 50 yrs, Malawii Cichlids for only the last few months.
> Your 'what to feed Mbuna' video was the best I have seen and has helped no end


Much appreciated thanks John


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

When you make sweeping generalizations, such as mbuna are veggie eaters, you are doing yourself and others a disservice. There are some that are, there are many more that are omnivores, and some that are carnivores. In the end, to state "mbuna" are veggie eaters is incorrect.

In addition, protein is not an issue in itself, it is the type of protein.

Lettuce... now it depends on which lettuce you feed... a lettuce like Iceberg has very little in the way of nutrional value, and really the fish are much better off just being fed a high quality pellet or flake than any terrestrial plant

"Haps like their Greens" It isn't necessary, as there are very few "Haps" that have a diet consisting of any vegetable matter. and some of the best breeders I've known, feed one food, end of story.

"African Cichlids digestive tracks are really long" - well the ones who eat a vegetarian diet, that is true... but the rest it isn't... So that statement is incorrect as it currently stands.

Remember, African Cichlids cover Tanganyikans, West Africans, Madagascar fishes as well.... you cannot use the term A.C. to cover a wide sweeping group of fish, when you are describing something more specific...

If you do redo a video, you might wish to touch upon frozen prepared foods, krill, mysis shrimps, brine shrimp, plankton....

The qualify of the videos is good, just need to get the details correct. :thumb:


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## CatWhat (Dec 13, 2011)

So would adding a sliced up Cucumber be fine along with flakes/pellets?


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## ndblaikie (Oct 12, 2011)

I feed my mbuna, Romania lettuce leaves once a week, alternating with carrots and peas another week. They also get an algae wafer as well.

That way they get 4 different veggies a month., they seem more active, as in anticipation when I approach with a piece of veggie.

I have never had an issue with "bloat" and the fish really love them...if there is any left in the tank after feeding, it will be gone by morning after my plecos have done their nightly tank rounds!

They have no issues with eating brine shrimp, although not currently as I broke the hatchery.

I mix the flakes as well so they get a very varied and healthy diet.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Many commercially available fish foods are a mixed and varied diet all processed and combined into pellet or flake form. So many of the replies on here talk about adding brine shrimp, veggies, etc to add even more variety. What for? 
What is in the "other" food that is not in the mixed and varied pellet or flake that the fish now get from brine shrimp or the like?


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Number6 said:


> Many commercially available fish foods are a mixed and varied diet all processed and combined into pellet or flake form. So many of the replies on here talk about adding brine shrimp, veggies, etc to add even more variety. What for?
> What is in the "other" food that is not in the mixed and varied pellet or flake that the fish now get from brine shrimp or the like?


I have often wondered this as well


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Fogelhund said:


> "African Cichlids digestive tracks are really long" - well the ones who eat a vegetarian diet, that is true...


I agree with everything Fogelhund has said except this statement. I would like to see the evidence to back this up. When it comes to land animals, or at least mamals, generally a long digestive tract is an indication of an animal being an omnivore. Compare humans and swine (which are both undoubtebly omnivores) to cattle and horses (the latter, both herbivores). Both humans and swine have much, much longer digestive tracts then either horses or cattle. Now when it comes to actual volume of digestive tract, horses and cattle are much larger, but neither are near as long!

The vast majority of cichlids, when it comes right down to it, are omnivores. Sure some are more so vegetarian or carnivore----sometimes it's simply a matter of what the fish is able to get. But very, very few cichlids, if any, make their living exclusively from either plant or animal matter.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*bernie comeau*
I had a better link somewhere... Need to dig it up but in the meantime:
http://limnology.wisc.edu/personnel/mci ... length.pdf


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

bernie comeau said:


> But very, very few cichlids, if any, make their living exclusively from either plant or animal matter.


Actually, a very large numbers of cichlids make their living nearly exclusively from animal matter. Any plant matter eaten is more of a coincidence than anything else. There are so many plankton eaters, pure predators and so on....

Nimbochromis, Scieanochromis, Rhamprochromis, Dimidiochromis, Champsochromis, Aristochromis, Buccochromis, Exochromis, Tyrannochromis are all genus that are pure predators of other fish.

Cynotilapia are primarily plankton eaters, Labidochromis primarily pick insect larvae and copepods from the algae... sure they ingest some algae, but it is more incidental and minor in percentage of stomach contents.

Aqualex put out some great CD's many years ago, that listed the diets of most of the known cichlid species at the time, but stomach content studies.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Fogelhund said:


> bernie comeau said:
> 
> 
> > But very, very few cichlids, if any, make their living exclusively from either plant or animal matter.
> ...


Thank you, # 6 for the PDF. Got my duaghter to print it out, so that i am able to read it.
No, I really don't agree with what I qouted from Fogulhund. Nearly is the only word I can agree with. They are all omnivores.

Quote from this study(pg. 1123): " Two major obstacles have presented rigirous combined analysis of dietary and phylogenic influences on gut length in animal taxa. First, it has been difficult to account for the true complexity of animal diets using categorical characterizations. previous studies have assighned species to discrete groups (eg. algivores, invertivores,piscivores) based on temporal snapshots of gut contents, but many species consume multiple types of food either concurrently or in response to changing resource availability (Fryer et al 1972:Mc Kaye & MMarsh 1982) These food types differ substantially in their nutrient and energy content and hence in in their nutritional value to consumers (Bowen, Lutz, & Ahlgren 1995;Stemer & Esler 2002). Thus, gut content-based trophic designations may be poor reflections of long-term diet type and quality"


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

When you look at what is in the guts of fish it is always a moment in time. MAYBE a reflection of what they mostly eat. But never the whole picture. And bear in mind most fish are genetic dead ends---not fish that breed successfully, and carry on the species .

We used to think a chimpanzea was a pure vegetarian. Of course, common knowledge now for many decades is that they get aound 10% of their calories and a lot more nutrition, from meat. The difference is that they are far more studied then any cichlid.

Yes, if you want to compare omnivores, a bear has a much shorter digestive tract then a human or a pig. But compare to a REAL herbivore--like a horse or cow--which is specialized as a herbivore (with digestive organs containing bacteria to break down cellulose) and an omnivore has a much longer digestive tract.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*bernie comeau*
A lion has a far shorter digestive tract than omnivores like a mouse and a cows digestive tract is longer than the mouses. A few exceptions dont invalidate the rule. It takes many more...


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Number6 said:


> *bernie comeau*
> a cows digestive tract is longer than the mouses.


Could be. But is that really taking the size of the animal, into considertion? Maybe(?)

I guess genetic ancestory would also be a huge factor. I'd be curious to see a comparison of a black bear and polar bear--in terms of their digestive tract. The first an omnivore that gets most of it's calories from plant matter---the latter a carnivore that very rarely gets any plant matter.


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## cornfolks24 (Dec 31, 2011)

Ya'll are making me recall my college days (not THAT long ago by the way . All are making good points and all are right to an extent. Generally speaking, animals that consume a poor quality diet have developed ways to overcome the nutritional difficiencies. They can take in larger quantities of food or have a longer digestive tract in order to extract as many nutrients as possible.
Cows have 2 stomachs and they chew their cud. The grass from the first eating is regurged into their mouth to be chewed again and then goes to a second stomach. Most of the nutrients are absorbed during this process so a long intestine is not needed. 
I read somewhere (probably on this site) that mostly herbivorous fish have a longer digestive tract as well although I do not know of any studies to prove this. Maybe somone else does?
This is fun, thanks to all.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

All I know is the fish don't seem to mind eating whatever I throw in there. :thumb:


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Bernie, yes, taking animal body mass into consideration...

The average size of a black bears digestive tract is longer than a polar bears but the difference is not significant. Although both a black bear and a hog could be labelled an omnivore, the labels are misleading... Hogs can eat just about anything, where as black bears only eat plant parts that match up to their digestive tract length for ease of digestion. To bring this back to cichlids, although we may label certain cichlids this, or that... It doesnt necessarily translate into actionable information when we go to feed them. I tend to ignore the labels personally... I dont feed aquatic veggies nor terrestrial veggies to a mbuna just because some website had them labelled as a herbivore. Many a farmer feeds meat products to their herbivores... Theyve learned what we should. Feed them that which is proven to work...


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Number6 said:


> Feed them that which is proven to work...


Well, that is good advice , that I agree with. Delicate fish; some Tanganyicans, I have no opinion.

But generally, fish is the best thing you can feed to fish. Fish meal in pellets.The thing is how it is cooked??? I have no faith in any of the major brands. That is why I use primarily frozen fish.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

bernie comeau said:


> They are all omnivores.


You can't really believe this do you?


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## eeztropheus (Jan 10, 2010)

[quote/] I know people with Loaches who successfully spawn them[/quote]

I'd like to hear more...


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Fogelhund said:


> bernie comeau said:
> 
> 
> > They are all omnivores.
> ...


For the most part, yes I do.

Specialized feeders.....we like to lump them into catagories, but diets are usually a lot more complex. Sometimes an animal has to eat what ever it can get, just to survive.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

bernie comeau said:


> Fogelhund said:
> 
> 
> > bernie comeau said:
> ...


Eating meat doesnt turn a herbivore into an omnivore... Are cows omnivores? You will get laughed at if you try and convince anyone of that... Yet this country has meat eating cows in it! :lol:

The labels are meant to communicate an animals "normal" diet. The labels are not meant to convey what any animal *Should* eat.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Number6 said:


> Eating meat doesnt turn a herbivore into an omnivore...


Very true. Especially when you are talking about what we feed animals in captivity.

But I really do beleive, that regardless of how we label the fish, the 'normal' diet of the vast majority of cichlids, includes both plant and animal matter.

Even if it is 'coincidence' or by 'accident' it's still part of the fish's diet. I know this is not the best example as this is in captivity, and neither are African cichlids, but i have 2 species of fish that are considered 'piscivores'. I currently have a lot of free floating algae. When i fed pellets yesterday, both my dovii and piranahs swallowed a lot of algae with their pellets--- neither spit any of it out. If they were truely adverse to eating plant matter, you'd think they would have spit the algae out? In the past, my red bellied piranahs nibled on plastic plants. Of course the plastic goes right through them. My explanation is that they confuse it for a real plant, and actually do nible on plants in the wild (I am speculating, as have no other explanation)----though you won't find it written anywhere that a red bellied piranah eats plants.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

bernie comeau said:


> But I really do beleive, that regardless of how we label the fish, the 'normal' diet of the vast majority of cichlids, includes both plant and animal matter.


Unfortunately, your theory doesn't have anything to back it up, except a story about your dovii and piranhas. Stomach content studies tell the whole story, and the reality is, there are many carnivorous cichlids. There are no known pure herbivores, as they do need some protein from other sources, though that percentage is small enough to be considered a herbivore. That an open water predator might have consumed a single cell piece of algae floating around, when it ate a sardine, doesn't make it an omnivore.. In such cases that matter won't even break down in such a fish.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Fogelhund said:


> Unfortunately, your theory doesn't have anything to back it up, except a story about your dovii and piranhas. Stomach content studies tell the whole story, and the reality is, there are many carnivorous cichlids. There are no known pure herbivores, as they do need some protein from other sources, though that percentage is small enough to be considered a herbivore. That an open water predator might have consumed a single cell piece of algae floating around, when it ate a sardine, doesn't make it an omnivore.. In such cases that matter won't even break down in such a fish.


You are right..and I am wrong. Though isotope analysis and stomach content studies may or may not tell the whole story... it's a snapshot, or a moment in time. But it is all we have in terms of real evidence.

That i think many cichlids that are labled a 'carnivore' also get SOME significant nutrition from plant matter is pure speculation on my part, and is not backed up by any real evidence.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

bernie comeau said:


> That i think many cichlids that are labled a 'carnivore' also get SOME significant nutrition from plant matter is pure speculation on my part, and is not backed up by any real evidence.


 i dont know of any study on cichlids, but i have read stories about common carnivores that "can" still digest certain plants/ plant parts. Heck, even my dogs favorite snack is carrot! I think it is a reasonable hypothesis to say that some carnivorous cichlids can get useful nutrition from some other sources including some algae or plant material. It just doesnt make them omnivores if we find that they benefit with some spirulina in their diet, right? :thumb:


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Number6 said:


> some carnivorous cichlids can get useful nutrition from some other sources including some algae or plant material. It just doesnt make them omnivores if we find that they benefit with some spirulina in their diet, right? :thumb:


Right.

I got the word and concept of omnivore completely wrong. Even some animals, that consume significant amount of pant matter, are still callled a carnivore (with a note that they have omnivorous tendancies  ).

I won't argue against isotope analysis ---showing where an organism has obtained most of it's nitrogen or carbon. But gut content anlysis has many questions:
*1. size of sample---age of fish, sex of fish. Do you really think all fish eat the same through out their entire life?

2. What a fish eats today, is it really identicle to what a fish eat's 6 months from now? Food supply changes with the season, not to mention from year to year.

3.We know The main source of calories/nutrition of the fish. Do we want to disregard the 10-40% of what many fish often consume ?

4. you can't assume all members of the same species eat the same thing on a daily basis. You need a HUGE sample to show this , every single month over many years.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

bernie comeau said:


> Number6 said:
> 
> 
> > some carnivorous cichlids can get useful nutrition from some other sources including some algae or plant material. It just doesnt make them omnivores if we find that they benefit with some spirulina in their diet, right? :thumb:
> ...


Perhaps you ought to write to the Ichthyologists who have been working on and studying these cichlids for decades, the errors in their ways, and point out to them what they really need to do. :thumb:

You never know right, I mean this could really be a closet algae scraper couldn't it?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

I think i see Bernies point... Treating all of our pet cichlids "as if" they are omnivores seems a justifiable approach given that these fish are such opportunistic feeders in the wild and can likely handle both their meat and potatoes...

I think i would still argue (as you just did with a photo example) that there are some specialized feeders that we cant lump in to bernies new "omnivore class". Other than those specialized feeders, i feed NLS and mysis to every fish i own including some herbivores and carnivores.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Fogelhund said:


> You never know right, I mean this could really be a closet algae scraper couldn't it?


Well, i see your point. :lol:

But not so different then these;


















And both these fish swallowed a whloe bunch of very big clumps of hair and black brush algae floating at the surface, 2 days ago. My dovii eats to take food away from his tankmates. Had him for almost 6 years now, to see this many, many times.. Very, very competitive nature. Opportunistic feeder. Sure, there are always things some fish are not able to eat, nor digest, but whan it comes to survival, i think the catagories we lump fish into probably don't mean too much.


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