# Cheap Halide option



## forum-guy (Aug 3, 2008)

So I discovered, to my dismay, the beauty of tanks with water ripples and shadows that are created by halide lamps and moving surface water. I also realized just how much I had been missing out on for so long by using florescent lamps.

So I'm set on getting those effects for my tanks. What is a cheap halide solution (and I mean CHEAP)?

My tank is a 36 gallon bow-front with only cichlids (no plants).


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## tropills (Mar 25, 2008)

t5's with a power head aimed at the surface of the water will give you a pretty good shimmer, the other option is LED lights, halides get the shimmer effect from being a single point light source, un-like fluorescent tubes that have light their entire length.


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## forum-guy (Aug 3, 2008)

Now I thought t5's were the same "even spread" lighting as the florescence. Is this not the case?


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## crotalusfan (Jun 21, 2008)

I have t5s, and I have never noticed that awesome "ripple" lighting. I don't have a powerhead in the tank, though.


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## tropills (Mar 25, 2008)

forum-guy said:


> Now I thought t5's were the same "even spread" lighting as the florescence. Is this not the case?


 yes they are light the entire length but the out put of light is far superior than normal fluorescents, they are comparable to halides when used with individual reflectors.


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## tropills (Mar 25, 2008)

crotalusfan said:


> I have t5s, and I have never noticed that awesome "ripple" lighting. I don't have a powerhead in the tank, though.


 and you won't have the awesome shimmer that halides give but you will have shimmer, there is nothing that will give you the "reef tank shimmer" other then halides or LED lights, there again they have a single point light source, that's where the shimmer effect comes from, but you can some what duplicate it to a extent with T5's and a power head agitating the water surface.


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## forum-guy (Aug 3, 2008)

Alright, lets say I go with hallide or LEDS.

What is a cheap solution?


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## tropills (Mar 25, 2008)

forum-guy said:


> Alright, lets say I go with hallide or LEDS.
> 
> What is a cheap solution?


 if you want the cheaper of the two. go with halides, the only draw back is they produce a LOT of heat, so you will need to add a chiller or fans blowing across the water surface, to help aid in evaporation which in turn helps keep the water temp lower. you can pick up a halide system with LED lunar lights for around 200-250 bucks, LED systems can cost 3 or 4 times that if you bought a complete system, if your any good at DIY stuff you can build a LED setup yourself,


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

tropills said:


> forum-guy said:
> 
> 
> > Alright, lets say I go with hallide or LEDS.
> ...


You can also get around the heat by having the halide on a pulley system so you can adjust the height of the light in relation to the top of the tank. Having the lights suspended above the tank also gives a nice look to the inside of the tank.

One thing to take into consideration with the metal halides is the increase in your electric bill. Your standard fluorescents don't put off nearly as much power usage as a metal halide.

Whatever you decide I demand before and after pictures once it is done!


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## forum-guy (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions! If everything works out, I'll definitely post some pictures.

Just an after thought, is a 50 or 75 watt Halogen bulb really that much more than a 40 watt fluorescent? Right now I'de pay about $1.50 or so a month for the cheap fluorescent. I figure the Halogen, being twice as many watts, would be about $3.00?

Doesn't seem bad at all in my opinion!


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

Metal halides for the aquarium can be anywhere from 150 watts to 400 watts each though. And replacement bulbs aren't that cheap. Plus they also require ballasts and if the ballast goes out and needs to be replaced that is another chunk of change.

So there can be greater cost over a standard fluorescent and halogen bulbs. It is just something to take into account.


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## BacktoFresh (Aug 21, 2007)

No such thing as CHEAP halides :lol:


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

All you need to do is raise the lights further from the surface and add more agitation that is stronger then that of a power filter.

I use el'cheap'o power saver screw in power compacts and they shimmer. They are not of a cooler kelvin rating so it don't look as nice as a reef tank shimmer but it still shimmers.

I have also had the shimmer with fluorescents but it was still kind of off.

Try it, just add more agitation to the surface if you have a power head or canister by directing it up wards and hold the lights higher from the top.

Sorry for any incoherence. I have a really, really bad headache!


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## forum-guy (Aug 3, 2008)

No problem JWener2. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to look around Home Depot a little more before I decide! Who knows, maybe they will have a cheap solution there! : )


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

If you still plan on doing a halide it would cost you just as much even for a retrofit/DIY to just go out and get a decent power compact fixture. Just get some legs for it and you are set.

Use a actinic and a 10k and you are good to go.

If you use the DIY for using the incandescent fixtures you can go out and get the 50/50 screw in PCs. They might shimmer nice enough.


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## BacktoFresh (Aug 21, 2007)

Actually Forum-Guy, I've heard of people DIYing those halide flood lights people put in front of their houses. They use them for saltwater tanks.

You can check out reefland.com or reefcentral.com and check the DIY boards.


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## BenHugs (Jan 13, 2007)

forum-guy said:


> Thanks for the suggestions! If everything works out, I'll definitely post some pictures.
> 
> Just an after thought, is a 50 or 75 watt Halogen bulb really that much more than a 40 watt fluorescent? Right now I'de pay about $1.50 or so a month for the cheap fluorescent. I figure the Halogen, being twice as many watts, would be about $3.00?
> 
> Doesn't seem bad at all in my opinion!


Halogen will probably give you a similar shimmer to halides at a fraction of the cost. The light rendition will be more yellow like the sun. Give it a shot I'm interested to know


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Most lights will shimmer. But like I said you don't have the cool kelvin rating that people have with Metal Halides.

I'm thinking the halogen would shimmer pretty much just like the power savers mini power compacts so why waste the extra energy? Just get the power saver mini power compacts or the 50/50 mini power compacts.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

BacktoFresh said:


> Actually Forum-Guy, I've heard of people DIYing those halide flood lights people put in front of their houses. They use them for saltwater tanks.
> 
> You can check out reefland.com or reefcentral.com and check the DIY boards.


The thing is is that after everything adds up ( ballasts, anual bulb replacement, energy bill, materials, cooling.. etc,.. etc ) it will cost just as much and in some cases less to just purchase a fair priced PC setup.


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## Spewn (Apr 2, 2008)

www.e-conolight.com; 70watt MH flood for $56.

Easily adaptable to fit over an aquarium giving the mounting configuration, designed for all-weather applications. Make sure you can handle the heat.


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## BacktoFresh (Aug 21, 2007)

Jwerner,

You're right. THe bottom line is, halides are ALWAYS going to be more expensive than other options.

BUT, it's the only lighting that is going to give the shimmer affect without doing anything else. Granted, you can probably use PC or CFLs, powerheads pointed the right way, etc., etc. to get the shimmer lines but as far as I know, halides are the only way to do it without doing anything.

It's funny, I just looked a t my SW tank that has a T5 setup and there is a little bit of the shimmer -- although it think its caused by the fact my return line is just below the surface.

If you ask me, it's not really worth the hassle. But to each their own :thumb:


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

How will it shimmer if you don't have agitation :thumb: . You still need agitation to get the shimmer no mater what. Reef tanks have lots of agitation. After I took down my larger reef tank and went to a invert only 20l Nano I went with PC's and it still had just as much shimmer as the halides on my larger tank just not at as crisp. My friend had a 75 reef that had low agitation. I told him about it constantly cause it was only what was coming from the return. Even with his halides, it was bright, nice cool and crisp but it still didn't have as much shimmer effect as my 20l with PC's. The biggest thing is to suspend the fixture. Thats when it comes into play a lot of times.

Even right now, the tank I mention with the screw in mini PC's is shimmering pretty nice. Of course its not as good as a reef tank but it shimmers in a warm color and you can see the reflection off the walls and furniture next to it is shimmering as well. If I was to lower the lights you would clearly see less shimmering effect. I have been experimenting with this for some time cause I was uneasy about adding high output lights on tanks that had no use for them just to gain this shimmer.

Think about it, if the surface is glassy/not broken up how will it really shimmer?

Another is to try to get that agitation more to the center of the tank as well as the lights. Then it will not be so spotty and the shimmer will cover more area. :fish: :fish:


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Spewn said:


> www.e-conolight.com; 70watt MH flood for $56.
> 
> Easily adaptable to fit over an aquarium giving the mounting configuration, designed for all-weather applications. Make sure you can handle the heat.


Bad link.

Whats the kelvins.

http://cgi.ebay.com/48-Power-Compac...ryZ46314QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I found similar deals outside e-bay before also.


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

JWerner2 said:


> Spewn said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.e-conolight.com 70watt MH flood for $56.
> ...


It was a bad link because he put a semi colon after the ".com" I corrected it in the above quote.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Sorry, I noticed that afterwords and fixed. I guess I should have updated that.

My mistake but it stil looks like a PITA.


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## Spewn (Apr 2, 2008)

Kelvin rating will depend on the bulb you use, of course.

If you're not handy, I suppose it is a hassle. It's a very standard mounting device though, and just requires a through-hole of a given size. It's in an all-weather housing that you can paint. You can disassemble it down to just the ballast kit and socket/wiring, for more flexibility. I don't recommend this(the disassembling) without a firm understanding of electricity, wiring, and HID ballasts, lamps and their operation.


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## Chris2500DK (Feb 15, 2006)

A 70W MH lamp won't really cause heat problems and is a great option for a cichlid tank, I use one myself 

I'm using a 20W Halogen bulb on my 15 gal multi tank and while it works just fine with very nice shimmer it is way too yellow for my taste. On the up side it's dirt cheap.


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## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn (Dec 26, 2005)

fluorescents will create rippling lines, my 40g (long) had a single T8 bulb over it, and with the heavy surface agitation (internals output right on the surface) it did create ripples,

however, on my 180g, I'm running 4 LED's, which is enough to illuminate the tank, and provides fantastic looking light ripples. and the bonus, at most its using 5.6w of electricity.

compared to florescent and halide its far more economical. cost me Â£40 ($80) in total, because I bought some pre-made units (IKEA, part of their LACK range, have a floating shelf above the tank and their mounted on that) that said a single ballast, bulb and reflector (T8) would have set me back as much, and T5 would have been a lot more, plus I would have to make a hood for them as it'd be rather ugly otherwise

the light units on the self









the tank lit with them









this photo doesn't really do it justice, as they are much brighter than the photo indicates. you can see the ripples even when there's full sunlight flooding in and illuminating the tank


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

That second shot is cool!

I know some people dont like to leave lights on when doing water changes but I like to so I can see any **** sitting around that needs to come out. If any of you do the same I am sure you would notice how much more the ripples are present in the water even at light agitation with the filters off. If you also notice the reef systems that have the nicest shimering effect are those that have suspended lights or Pendants.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

I recently looked into getting a MH for my 36G Bow Front reef tank. There were some cheap 150W MH fixtures on ebay (around $100), but it's jebo type. Anyhow, someone stated that the center brace on the 36G BF will cast a huge shadow in the tank, so I decided to go with a T5HO fixure. So, something to think about.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

My 46 Bow never had that issue.


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## Chris2500DK (Feb 15, 2006)

A single halide over a tank with a centre brace will definetely cast a big shadow. Not sure how bad it'll be if the brace is made from glass though.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

mine _definitely_ did not :-?


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## forum-guy (Aug 3, 2008)

I've posted this link in another thread before because I found it to be very intuitive. A gentlemen replaced (on his bow tank) the center brace for thin steel wire! This, for him, eliminated that shadow cast in the middle of the tank.

Check it out

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/lofiver ... 52506.html


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## balz2dwall (Jun 14, 2004)

I've used several types of metal halide ballasts/lamps over the last couple years on my reef tanks and dabbled in lighting my cichlid tanks with them as well.

Several comments:
- A 70W lamp is not likely to raise the tank temp to problematic levels so long as it's mounted at the appropriate height. Anything over that (150W - 1000W) will most likely have an affect on your tank temperatures.
- Because MH aquarium lamps are true point source lamps and by the very nature of their kelvin ratings (spectral outputs), the PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) output is much higher than other lighting options (NO, PC, etc), thus algae growth can become an issue. Mounting the light higher (> 12" off of the water's surface) spreads out the light and actually eliminates any heat issues and spreads out the shimmer lines over the larger tanks as well.
- Magnetic metal halide ballasts are the longest lasting and cheapest option in the realm of metal halide lighting
- I just replaced 3 metal halide lamps and spent almost $200 doing so  
- Glass center braces tend not to cast noticeable shadows so as they are kept clean
- I wouldn't exceed anything over 70W of metal halide lighting for an unplanted aquarium of any type
- Finding a lamp with the lowest PAR possible would be the best bet for a cichlid tank
- Metal halide lamps are available in far more Kelvin ratings than any other point light source (Yellow [5,500K] - Blue [22,000K])
- There's no need for a chiller. A $12 - 10" muffin fan works almost as good as a chiller at over 1/50th of the cost.
- LEDs produce nice shimmer lines so long as they're the only light source (think LED moonlighting). Simply supplementing with LEDs doesn't work as the light gets lost in the main tank lighting.

IMHO, your cheapest option to get superb shimmer lines is going to be a halogen lamp. However, halogens tend to put out light in the 3500-5000K range which is yellowish in color (i.e. ugly  ). Replacement lamps are very cheap when compared to metal halide lamps and are probably closer in price to NO fluorescent lamps.


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## Chris2500DK (Feb 15, 2006)

balz2dwall said:


> - Magnetic metal halide ballasts are the longest lasting and cheapest option in the realm of metal halide lighting


Just a comment on your very nice post 

Magnetic ballasts are cheaper and probably lasts longer too, but they're also a lot more expensive to run since they use a lot more electricity. Depending on how big a factor that is to you it can mean from nothing to everything in choosing a ballast.


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## balz2dwall (Jun 14, 2004)

Chris2500DK said:


> balz2dwall said:
> 
> 
> > - Magnetic metal halide ballasts are the longest lasting and cheapest option in the realm of metal halide lighting
> ...


Very true . . . forgot to mention it :thumb:


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2008)

JWerner2 said:


> My 46 Bow never had that issue.


My 36 BF has a 2" thick plastic center brace. I would think that would cast some sort of shadow.


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## atreis (Jan 15, 2013)

There are LED options (cannons) that will give you the same sort of shimmer as halides. They're more expensive to purchase, but the amount of electricity used by MH bulbs, in comparison, is immense.


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