# Converting my Tropical Freshwater Tank to Cichlid Tank



## jsttryn

Hello everyone! I have had my 55 gallon tropical freshwater tank up and running now for about 2 years. I have become recently wanted to venture into the Cichlid world since these fish have always shown me more personality and color. My current tank only has 1 yoyo loach and 2 skirted tetra right now. So I am trying to find them a new home before I start this conversion, which is seeming to be a pain and time consuming task. Any ideas?

My first part of my conversion is to get a new filtration system. My current Emperor 400 is and has always been irregularly loud. I have tried fixing the issue and contact Marineland to no avail. Marineland even sent me new internals (free) but this didn't help at all. I remember looking up this issue online and reading that because of cutting costs to their filters, it is just crappy construction. Really wished I never wasted my money.

For the replacement filter I was thinking of going with my first canister filter ever...the EHEIM ecco pro Easy 80 External Canister Filter. Has anyone had any experience with this one? Good? Bad? Any other suggestions would be much appreciated. Being a filter that is good with all 3 types of filtration and being quiet are the two most important issues..plus affordability (amazon for $120).

Next, I want to replace my harsh gravel with Pool Filter Sand. Now I really like the black moon sand, but its pretty expensive to fill a 4 ft long aquarium with it. Does this sound OK?

After, I provide the older fish a new home, change the filter system, and replace the substrate, all I have left I believe is to make rock caves for the fish and bring the PH to the level that the Cichlids (not sure which type I'm going to choose) will enjoy, even though I know they can adapt give or take. I also believe that since I'll be changing out the substrate and the filter system that I will probably have to take the tank through a mini cycle stage. I was thinking of getting a stocking and putting some old gravel in it and putting it in the tank for the bacteria to manifest on the new stuff. Any further suggestions?

I know this is a lot in one thread, but I have a lot on my mind about this recently.

Any assistance on the conversation or anything else from you guys would be awesome!

Thanks,
Tom


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## CITADELGRAD87

I don't have that particular eheim, I have a classic, it seemed expensive at the time, but it is as silent as the day I plugged it in and had to look at the spraybar to make sure it was running.

I have play sand in my 55, and plan to put PFS in my new 100, I recently saw a 100 with black sand and it was very pretty, and really made the fish stand out, but I think I am going to use the PFS.

I would keep your Emperor on the tank to speed or eliminate the cycle, your bio load is pretty low, though. I would remove your old fish, hook up the eheim, leave the emperor, and do a quick fishless cycle. After several months, you can just pull the emperor and the ehiem should take up the slack.

Try Craig's list to give the fish to a new home, I see plenty of free stock on there, or very cheap stock.

That's all the first hand info I have.


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## Aulonocara_Freak

It depend's on what fish you are going to stock, you might be able to keep the skirt tetra's. Also as far as a mini cycle, IMO change the substrate before switching the filter. I recommend to get a Brand NEW pair of nee high's or something and put some your old gravel in there, once you change the tank to PFS (Pool Filter Sand, I LOVE IT!!!). Then after a week or two change the filter.

Do you have any idea's of what you want to stock?
What your natural PH?


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## PfunMo

I would suggest an Eheim Clasic as well. They are expensive but worth it to me. Another avenue that might work is talking to your LFS about what it would take for them to match the internet price. It seems to be a growing trend here and it really worked well for me. They called it cost plus ten percent here and brought an Eheim 2075 down to $201. Aproach them with it being a matter of you buying from the net or you would really like to buy from them if the price was in range. Businsess messes with your mind all the time so don't feel guilty!

On the switch, I would consider the tetras an asset to keep while you change out the gravel to PFS for my choice. It can be done with them there. Once the sand is in and settled, add the second filter along side the 400. This will let the filter start building a bacteria load. I would add the new fish along with the tets and see how it works. They may do well or they may need to be moved. Just try to have some alternates in mind.


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## jsttryn

Wow..Thanks for the advice guys. It has given me even more to think of. To answer the questions of what stock I want...I am still doing my research, being completely new to Cichlids (with exception to Discus) I don't even know the names of them let alone picking out a certain kind (Afican, Lake Malawi, etc.). I know I had 3 Dwarf (Jellybean) Convicts before and I absolutely loved them. I had no idea what they were til recently and my mother bought them for me a long time ago. Would love to find a pair of them again.

I will do the substrate first as recommended and keep the tetras in there to help build the bacteria but I am sure I will need to get rid of them before I get anything else. What about the Yoyo Loach? He is the only one I would actual like to keep. Do you think he might do well?

As for my natural, out of the faucet water ph, I am not to sure what it is. I know its hard cause I always had to use softeners to it to for the tetras and loach. I'll check it tonight, hopefully my Ph dropper kit is still good and works. Its been a while since I used it.

So you guys think the Eheim Classic would be a better choice over the EHEIM ecco pro Easy 80?

Any other suggestions or advice is always welcome. I've had a fish tank for over 10 yrs, but still consider myself a novice as I've learned by myself haw to do most of what I know and some of it is turning out to be wrong.

Thanks,
Tom


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## Aulonocara_Freak

As stock have you looked at some all male mbuna tank's?

Here is an example:


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## jsttryn

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> As stock have you looked at some all male mbuna tank's?
> 
> Here is an example:


That is really gorgeous! I thought with these Cichlids you wanted 1 male and the rest females per species. Guess I was wrong.

Tom


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## Aulonocara_Freak

Your 100% right, but an all male tank has no female's at all so there is no worry of cross breeding as with two specie's, Male and female, of each in the same tank. If you would like to breed you can also do a specie's tank with Pseudotropheus Saulosi. Example:

Tank with only 1 male









4 male's 12 female's


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## jsttryn

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> Your 100% right, but an all male tank has no female's at all so there is no worry of cross breeding as with two specie's, Male and female, of each in the same tank. If you would like to breed you can also do a specie's tank with Pseudotropheus Saulosi. Example:
> 
> Tank with only 1 male
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 male's 12 female's


See, I thought having a bunch of males in one tank would have caused a lot more tension and fighting from territory issues. I wasn't thinking about crossbreeding. I guess thats something I need to think about when I choose my stock. Never had to think about it with a tropical freshwater community tank.

I was looking on amazon at the Eheim classic cansiter filters and I found a bunch on there. For a 55 gallon 4 foot long tank that won't been to crowded what size of filter would you recommend. This will be my first canister filter and I get paranoid when I try something for the first time. Hate throwing money down the drain.

Thanks,
Tom


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## Aulonocara_Freak

Well with aggression it's still there but it's spread out more. If you had 2 male's in that tank they would tear up each other, now if you had 7 male's the aggression is more spread out and not one fish will get torn up.


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## zimmy

jsttryn said:


> I was looking on amazon at the Eheim classic cansiter filters and I found a bunch on there. For a 55 gallon 4 foot long tank that won't been to crowded what size of filter would you recommend. This will be my first canister filter and I get paranoid when I try something for the first time. Hate throwing money down the drain.


I would go with an eheim 2213 for a 55.


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## jsttryn

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> Well with aggression it's still there but it's spread out more. If you had 2 male's in that tank they would tear up each other, now if you had 7 male's the aggression is more spread out and not one fish will get torn up.


I see, and now do remember hearing about that. Thanks! Well, I'm going to slowly start the tank conversion and study up on what stock I want. I'm sure I'll have to many questions to answer once I start looking into them. It just seems there is a never ending amount of Cichlids to choose from. I basically just want to make sure that I get a stock that is compatible with one another and won't kill each other.

Would you be able to suggest what group to start looking into? Cause I have no idea where to start.. :-? . Is there a group that is considered easier to figure out or take care then the others? Any suggestions would really be a great help!

Thanks,
Tom


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## Aulonocara_Freak

Well what do you want the tank for?
Breeding?
Beauty?
What???

Some nice beginner cichlid's are Convict's, Kribensis, and Mbuna.


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## jsttryn

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> Well what do you want the tank for?
> Breeding?
> Beauty?
> What???
> 
> Some nice beginner cichlid's are Convict's, Kribensis, and Mbuna.


Sorry, I probably should have elaborated a bit more. I really want to make this 55 gallon tank a nice front room center piece for the family to watch. And the reason I want to change over to Cichlids, is becuase I have always noticed that Cichlids have more personality then what I have always kept. The kids would love it.

As for breeding, I no I don't want to get into that specifically. If they happen to breed on the off chance then it would be interesting to watch and care for them. But as soon as they are a little older, I would have no idea what to do with them since I have no spare tanks for them and I wouldn't even know how to go about selling them. All I have is retail stores in my area, no mom and pop shops which are the best.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and really help me!

Tom


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## chinds78

I'd so go with a 3 species mbuna tank. Check out the species articles section of this site for more detail. Check my signature to see how i stock my 45G. This mix is working great and provides colorful, interesting fish.


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## Aulonocara_Freak

I think an all male Mbuna tank would be best for ya.  Here's a stock list that could work in that tank. This is a stock that I picked out and you might, or might not like it. Also you might not be able to get some of these.

1. Cynotilapia sp. "hara"
2. Metriaclima estherae (Red)
3. Cynotilapia afra (Chewere)
4. Cynotilapia axelrodi	
5. Cynotilapia sp. "Maleri" (Nakantenga)
6. Gephyrochromis sp. "Zebroides" (Gome), (My favorite )
7. Iodotropheus sprengerae
8. Labidochromis caeruleus (Kakusa) 
9. Melanochromis parallelus	
10. Melanochromis vermivorus

If you can't find them locally try online, here's a few site's I recommend.

1. http://www.Aquabid.com
2. http://www.Thatfishplace.com
3. http://www.liveaquaria.com


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## jsttryn

chinds78 said:


> I'd so go with a 3 species mbuna tank. Check out the species articles section of this site for more detail. Check my signature to see how i stock my 45G. This mix is working great and provides colorful, interesting fish.


Thank you very much for your suggestion! If you don't mind me asking, how many males and how many females? Probably a dumb question, but i never had to worry about gender when I was only working with tropical community tanks and I'm curious.

I was thinking of convicts. I would really like to be able to find some dwarf (jellybean) convicts, since they were so much fun to watch when I had them (didn't know what they were when I did have them, just figured it out..lol). And they were the perfect size. I am still learning how big these Cichlids get and I would really hate to get attached to something that would outgrow my 55 gallon and my caves (once I get them in) since I have no room to upgrade to bigger.

Thanks,
Tom


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## jsttryn

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> I think an all male Mbuna tank would be best for ya.  Here's a stock list that could work in that tank. This is a stock that I picked out and you might, or might not like it. Also you might not be able to get some of these.
> 
> 1. Cynotilapia sp. "hara"
> 2. Metriaclima estherae (Red)
> 3. Cynotilapia afra (Chewere)
> 4. Cynotilapia axelrodi
> 5. Cynotilapia sp. "Maleri" (Nakantenga)
> 6. Gephyrochromis sp. "Zebroides" (Gome), (My favorite )
> 7. Iodotropheus sprengerae
> 8. Labidochromis caeruleus (Kakusa)
> 9. Melanochromis parallelus
> 10. Melanochromis vermivorus
> 
> If you can't find them locally try online, here's a few site's I recommend.
> 
> 1. http://www.Aquabid.com
> 2. http://www.Thatfishplace.com
> 3. http://www.liveaquaria.com


Wow...that is a huge help! I really do appreciate how much time you have spent giving me a helping hand and a push in the right direction. I will go ahead and start acquainting myself with these to see what they are since I'm no good with the scientific names yet.

And thanks for the sites. I've never bought fish or any live animal online before and have always been very skeptical about it.

I'll definitely keep you post on my progress and as I go and I'll probably throw a few more questions your way.

Have a good night!
Tom


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## Cichlid_Expert

jsttryn said:


> Aulonocara_Freak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think an all male Mbuna tank would be best for ya.  Here's a stock list that could work in that tank. This is a stock that I picked out and you might, or might not like it. Also you might not be able to get some of these.
> 
> 1. Cynotilapia sp. "hara"
> 2. Metriaclima estherae (Red)
> 3. Cynotilapia afra (Chewere)
> 4. Cynotilapia axelrodi
> 5. Cynotilapia sp. "Maleri" (Nakantenga)
> 6. Gephyrochromis sp. "Zebroides" (Gome), (My favorite )
> 7. Iodotropheus sprengerae
> 8. Labidochromis caeruleus (Kakusa)
> 9. Melanochromis parallelus
> 10. Melanochromis vermivorus
> 
> If you can't find them locally try online, here's a few site's I recommend.
> 
> 1. http://www.Aquabid.com
> 2. http://www.Thatfishplace.com
> 3. http://www.liveaquaria.com
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...that is a huge help! I really do appreciate how much time you have spent giving me a helping hand and a push in the right direction. I will go ahead and start acquainting myself with these to see what they are since I'm no good with the scientific names yet.
> 
> And thanks for the sites. I've never bought fish or any live animal online before and have always been very skeptical about it.
> 
> I'll definitely keep you post on my progress and as I go and I'll probably throw a few more questions your way.
> 
> Have a good night!
> Tom
Click to expand...

An other store is www.cichlidstore.com their fish are incredibly cheap, have great reviews and a decent shipping price :thumb: I am about to order fish from them soon!

*Hint:* The more fish you buy the cheaper the shipping is


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## Aulonocara_Freak

jsttryn said:


> Aulonocara_Freak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think an all male Mbuna tank would be best for ya.  Here's a stock list that could work in that tank. This is a stock that I picked out and you might, or might not like it. Also you might not be able to get some of these.
> 
> 1. Cynotilapia sp. "hara"
> 2. Metriaclima estherae (Red)
> 3. Cynotilapia afra (Chewere)
> 4. Cynotilapia axelrodi
> 5. Cynotilapia sp. "Maleri" (Nakantenga)
> 6. Gephyrochromis sp. "Zebroides" (Gome), (My favorite )
> 7. Iodotropheus sprengerae
> 8. Labidochromis caeruleus (Kakusa)
> 9. Melanochromis parallelus
> 10. Melanochromis vermivorus
> 
> If you can't find them locally try online, here's a few site's I recommend.
> 
> 1. http://www.Aquabid.com
> 2. http://www.Thatfishplace.com
> 3. http://www.liveaquaria.com
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...that is a huge help! I really do appreciate how much time you have spent giving me a helping hand and a push in the right direction. I will go ahead and start acquainting myself with these to see what they are since I'm no good with the scientific names yet.
> 
> And thanks for the sites. I've never bought fish or any live animal online before and have always been very skeptical about it.
> 
> I'll definitely keep you post on my progress and as I go and I'll probably throw a few more questions your way.
> 
> Have a good night!
> Tom
Click to expand...

Glad to help! 

BTW, Picture's are needed!


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## jsttryn

Cichlid_Freak, thanks for the info! I'll definetly check them out also! Just as soon as my new filter cycles with my old one, which I'm told it could take a few months.

Aulonocara_Freak, of course I'll show off what you guys what you all helped get accomplished!

Thanks,
Tom


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## Valous

If you liked the jellybean convicts, you could look at a CA/SA tank with the more peaceful fish. Look at hondoran red points, rainbow cichlid, maybe a firemouth. There is nothing against africans as they provide plenty of color and movement, so it really depends on what you want as it is your tank. Your the one that has to look at it everyday, we just want to see pics. :thumb:


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## jsttryn

Valous said:


> If you liked the jellybean convicts, you could look at a CA/SA tank with the more peaceful fish. Look at hondoran red points, rainbow cichlid, maybe a firemouth. There is nothing against africans as they provide plenty of color and movement, so it really depends on what you want as it is your tank. Your the one that has to look at it everyday, we just want to see pics. :thumb:


Thanks for another thought. By the way, what is CA/SA stand for? And yes, plenty of pictures will be provided. I'm actually a member of a few other forums (military surplus forums) and pictures are a must and awesome!

Thanks,
Tom


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## Aulonocara_Freak

CA = Central American

SA= South American

Westie's = West African

Tang's = Referring to fish from lake tanganyika

All I can think of ATM.


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## jsttryn

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> jsttryn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aulonocara_Freak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think an all male Mbuna tank would be best for ya.  Here's a stock list that could work in that tank. This is a stock that I picked out and you might, or might not like it. Also you might not be able to get some of these.
> 
> 1. Cynotilapia sp. "hara"
> 2. Metriaclima estherae (Red)
> 3. Cynotilapia afra (Chewere)
> 4. Cynotilapia axelrodi
> 5. Cynotilapia sp. "Maleri" (Nakantenga)
> 6. Gephyrochromis sp. "Zebroides" (Gome), (My favorite )
> 7. Iodotropheus sprengerae
> 8. Labidochromis caeruleus (Kakusa)
> 9. Melanochromis parallelus
> 10. Melanochromis vermivorus
> 
> If you can't find them locally try online, here's a few site's I recommend.
> 
> 1. http://www.Aquabid.com
> 2. http://www.Thatfishplace.com
> 3. http://www.liveaquaria.com
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...that is a huge help! I really do appreciate how much time you have spent giving me a helping hand and a push in the right direction. I will go ahead and start acquainting myself with these to see what they are since I'm no good with the scientific names yet.
> 
> And thanks for the sites. I've never bought fish or any live animal online before and have always been very skeptical about it.
> 
> I'll definitely keep you post on my progress and as I go and I'll probably throw a few more questions your way.
> 
> Have a good night!
> Tom
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Glad to help!
> 
> BTW, Picture's are needed!
Click to expand...

Hey, I had 2 more questions that I thought of last night. Since I will be putting a lot of rocks in my tank should I brace the inside bottom with something?

Also, I plan on keeping my current fish in the tank for a few more months since it will take that long to cycle the new filter and substrate. When I remove them how would you go about changing the ph so I can put the higher Ph fish in? Or should I let the rocks buffer the water to slowly change over the the new ph with the current fish in it? My thought is if I let it change slowly over time the current fish should adapt and be OK. Plus my normal tap water had a higher PH. I just used to use a chemical softener, which I will probably stop using to slowly change the ph.

I hope my questions made sense.

Thanks,
Tom


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## jsttryn

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> CA = Central American
> 
> SA= South American
> 
> Westie's = West African
> 
> Tang's = Referring to fish from lake tanganyika
> 
> All I can think of ATM.


ahh, more acynoms for me to learn :lol:

thanks,
Tom


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## Aulonocara_Freak

jsttryn said:


> Hey, I had 2 more questions that I thought of last night. Since I will be putting a lot of rocks in my tank should I brace the inside bottom with something?
> 
> Also, I plan on keeping my current fish in the tank for a few more months since it will take that long to cycle the new filter and substrate. When I remove them how would you go about changing the ph so I can put the higher Ph fish in? Or should I let the rocks buffer the water to slowly change over the the new ph with the current fish in it? My thought is if I let it change slowly over time the current fish should adapt and be OK. Plus my normal tap water had a higher PH. I just used to use a chemical softener, which I will probably stop using to slowly change the ph.
> 
> I hope my questions made sense.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom


Most people use egg crate to help distribute the pressure. It's the egg crate that's used to diffuse light.

As far as ph all of us, that I know, use crushed coral (CC) to higher the PH. It's natural and will work for a very long time. You just mix it in with the sand your going to use.


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## jsttryn

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> jsttryn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, I had 2 more questions that I thought of last night. Since I will be putting a lot of rocks in my tank should I brace the inside bottom with something?
> 
> Also, I plan on keeping my current fish in the tank for a few more months since it will take that long to cycle the new filter and substrate. When I remove them how would you go about changing the ph so I can put the higher Ph fish in? Or should I let the rocks buffer the water to slowly change over the the new ph with the current fish in it? My thought is if I let it change slowly over time the current fish should adapt and be OK. Plus my normal tap water had a higher PH. I just used to use a chemical softener, which I will probably stop using to slowly change the ph.
> 
> I hope my questions made sense.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> Most people use egg crate to help distribute the pressure. It's the egg crate that's used to diffuse light.
> 
> As far as ph all of us, that I know, use crushed coral (CC) to higher the PH. It's natural and will work for a very long time. You just mix it in with the sand your going to use.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I was actually read something last night that was saying to mix in crushed coral with the PFS. So I guess I need to find where they sell that around my area now. Probably have it at home depot in the garden section.

I'm guessing home depot will have those egg crates as well. It took me a minute and a google search to understand what you meant by egg crates that diffuse lights hahaha :lol:


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## Aulonocara_Freak

No, the crushed coral will be at your LFS.


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## jsttryn

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> No, the crushed coral will be at your LFS.


Roger that!

Hopefully I'll start off posting some before pictures tonight or tomorrow. So all can see what I'm working with.

Tom


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## jsttryn

Here is what I've been able to do so far. First picture is what I started with. Pictures aren't the best but as you can tell it wasn't kept up with that well. Plenty of algae on the glass and all the decor. I first removed 70% of the water and removed the fish into a 5 gallon bucket with an air stone and heater. I then cleaned all the sand and crushed coral. Removed all the gravel and replaced it with an egg crate (for weight distribution) and a mixture of pool filter sand and crushed coral. I then replaced all the water and let it get back to normal temps before putting the fish back in. Also, there is a stocking full of old gravel in the tank to help the seeding process.










[/img]


















Now I have to go find some rocks that look really sweet plus are plenty functional for the fish I'll be putting in my tank. I'm still debating on Mbuna or Peacocks, but I'm pretty sure I'll be doing a Mbuna tank since they are smaller then the peacocks. I'm just not sure if I want to do the all male or 3 species yet. I'm not sure if I want or have the capability to do all the trial with all male mbuna tanks (getting rid of fish or splitting them up into another tank). I only have one tank.

Well, I'll do another update as soon as I get some more done. Probably will have to go out of town this weekend, due to a death in the family so it might be two weeks before I get anything else done.

Also, if you look close at the third pic you can see my one tetra and one yoyo loach that I still have.

Feel free to comment...

Thanks,
Tom


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## chinds78

Looking good. I'd do the 3 species mbuna tank. I think yellow labs, acei and demasoni would look good in this tanke. Maybe some white socolofi too. 20 fish would be pushing it for this tnak, but ti could work with plenty of hiding places.


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## Aulonocara_Freak

NICE! Good Luck!

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:


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## jsttryn

Quick Update: Looks like my new EHEIM Classic 2217 should be arriving here on Friday. Just got a new parameter testing kit to make sure I'm accurate. Probably won't be able to get out to the landscaping place to pick up some rocks for the tank till Sunday, since its been raining for about a week straight now.

Both the tetra and the yoyo loach are doing well since the conversion. I think I might try my luck with keeping the yoyo and seeing what happens.

I have taken a look into these Mbunas and I think I have decided to do a 3 species tank instead of an all male. I don't really have the resources to keep buying and removing fish till I get that perfect aggressive all male community. So I think I might do some Yellow Labs, Pseudotropheus Saulosi, Cynotilapia afra (Cobue), some type of Synodontis, and possibly a type of pleco (probably BN). Probably will buy all these online, except these labs which I think we have local.

I guess I'm going to test my water chemistry tonight to see what they read. I'll make sure to post them so I can get any input anyone wants to provide.


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## jsttryn

OK, so everything looks like it is going smoothly so far. I wanted opinions on my stock list so that when I am ready I can just pull the trigger due to online vendors constantly running out of variants.

I was going to do a 3 species tank instead of an all male. I was thinking of Yellow labs, Cynotilapia Afra Cobue, and possibly Rusty's. With a male to female ratio of 1 male vs 4 females. Also, 3 Synodontis multipunctatus and maybe a pleco. Does that look like to many fish or do you think I could add one other species of mbuna? This isn't set in stone yet, but unless I find something local that I like better this is probably going to be it.

Also, since I am using my old established Emperor 400 in the tank until my new (which gets here tomorrow) filter is seeded and I have kept the yoyo loach and tetra in the tank, so I have to wait until the new filter is seeded to add these fish or can I do it just as soon as I get the rock caves set up?

Thanks,
Tom


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## chinds78

I think last stock list would be best since soulosi can be pretty aggressive and probably wouldn't do well with the other species you listed.

You may have to wait a little while for you tank to cycle. It shouldn't take to long using the old filter, but it will still take some time. Get a good aquarium test kit and read the article on this site about fishless cycling.


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## jsttryn

Thanks for the reply. I just checked my water parameters and here it is:

PH: 7.4-7.6 - basically the color is darker then 7.6 on the regular ph test kit and as light as the 7.4 on the high range ph test kit. Never used a high range before so hope I got this right.
Also, I know this is a little low for mbuna but I have been told that it is more important to have consistency than have it jump all around using chemicals to make it perfect every water change.

Nitrite: color looks between the 0ppm and the .25ppm (my wife says, I'm partially color blind)

Nitrate: 10ppm

My plan is to get my new canister filter set up tomorrow and let it go for about 2-3 weeks (I guess). Then I'll check the parameters again and go from there. Since the only thing I have taken out so far is replacing the substrate I believe the good bacteria is still well in place. It might be only enough to handle a couple fish since I only have two in there now. And I want to buy all at once from an online vendor. Do you guys think they will be OK going from 2 to about 18 fish? Seems like a big change in waste. Any ideas on how to increase the bio load the bacteria can handle before I make this change. Remember I have two fish in there currently and don't want to kill them. My thought was to just do a ton of part water changes for the first few weeks to help combat the initial bio load spike until the bacteria can catch up.

What would you do?

Thanks,
Tom


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## jason_nj

Sounds like you're on the right track. The Eheim classics are great filters, but a pain to figure out the first time setting them up. Its not very intuitive. When I first got mine, it took me forever to figure out how to hook it up. I just assumed there would be hoses sized for each connection but there isn't.

So here's my tip, you'll need to cut your hoses down to size and connect them to your filter. Basically, cut a short length of hose for the filters intake and return and that will connect to your quick disconnects. Then cut to size a longer length of hose for the connection from your quick disconnects to your spray bar and green tank intake tube.

Another tip, make sure your quick disconnects are in places that are easily reachable. Let us know if you have any problems setting up your filter.


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## jsttryn

jason_nj said:


> Sounds like you're on the right track. The Eheim classics are great filters, but a pain to figure out the first time setting them up. Its not very intuitive. When I first got mine, it took me forever to figure out how to hook it up. I just assumed there would be hoses sized for each connection but there isn't.
> 
> So here's my tip, you'll need to cut your hoses down to size and connect them to your filter. Basically, cut a short length of hose for the filters intake and return and that will connect to your quick disconnects. Then cut to size a longer length of hose for the connection from your quick disconnects to your spray bar and green tank intake tube.
> 
> Another tip, make sure your quick disconnects are in places that are easily reachable. Let us know if you have any problems setting up your filter.


Thank you for the info! I'll be getting the filter today and either setting her up tonight or tomorrow. If I have any questions I'll make sure to post them.

Tom


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## jsttryn

Well, just about done with the cleaning of the rocks I will be putting in the tank. Today they are soaking in plain water after a 24 hr soak in water and bleach (not to much). Last night I sprayed them off really good with the hose and put them in the bucket to soak. Later tonight I'll take them out of the water and if I smell no bleach then I'll set them out to air dry completely and put them in the tank tomorrow when I get home from work.

Today during my lunch break I went up to a LFS and was told that when having African Cichlids to make sure I had salt to my water and during water changes since most of the waters over in Africa are of a brackish type and it will cut the life of my fish if I don't use it. Now, I've hear using salt to help with sicknesses and such and some people use it in the aquarium, but should I make sure that I have to mixed in with my water before I get my fish? If so, how much should I use? I'm guessing the API salt is what I should use also.

Thanks,
Tom


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## newforestrob

sounds like you are well on your way and have a handle on everything,the benefits to adding salts is debateable and I would say not needed unless maybe to bring up Gh,Ph is not as important as Kh,as a low Kh might not be able to stabilize and buffer Ph
I like your stocking,I have this in my 90 gal.(minus the pleco)I would suggest removing extra males as they grow and try to end up with 1 male to at least 4 females,unless you are getting them sexed,good luck
by the way,if you want to cycle the new filter,you could run it on a container and do a fishless cycle with liquid ammonia,that way you could definately have less chances of issues to add all the fish at the same time


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## gilberbt

I did the same thing 4 years ago. Luckly you found this site first as I mainly went off advice from several lfs. Some advice was good and some was bad, I did end up with extra stuff that was not needed in the end and a lot of uncompatible fish from the "Mixed African Cichlid" tanks. Any advice I would give is to just take your time and dont rush it which it looks like you are already doing. I guess I am old school and like to see the fish first so it took me about 2 1/2 years to get the stocking I wanted from various lfs, but I hear a lot of good things from the online stores. Good Luck!


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## jsttryn

Yeah, I took a stroll to the LFS yesterday and all I saw where mixed afican cichlid tanks. It pretty much killed it for me since I can't tell them all apart and never will I remember all them scientific names.

Well, I took my water over to the LFS as well and they said give it another week or so and the water should be good to go to add some fish. I'm guessing there were some Nitrites that were still in there and it hasn't zeroed out yet. Well, I'm taking a trip next week to the one LFS that is basically like a mom and pop shop and hopefully they will be much more helpful.

Oh, got the rocks in and I'm in love! I'll make sure to post a pic tomorrow due to me being absolutely exhausted from doing some pre-gun hunting season scouting since 4 this morning. Archery season was good so hopefully it keeps getting better!


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## chinds78

What do you hunt in FL? Up here everyone hunts deer.


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## jsttryn

chinds78 said:


> What do you hunt in FL? Up here everyone hunts deer.


Hogs and Deer. This is my first year hunting in South FL, so I'm still getting used to swamp hunting.


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## chinds78

Swamp hunting...that would be interesting.


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## Aulonocara_Freak

chinds78 said:


> Swamp hunting...that would be interesting.


Shhh! Get the deer... $%^& a crocodile got me. :lol:


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## jsttryn

It is pretty different then what I was used to in VA and GA. Its a mission in itself to just scout the areas through knee and waist high water. I haven't seen any crocs yet but the gators do get pretty big in some areas.

As for my stocking list...I've had to take a different approach as to stocking due to nothing realizable local or within driving distance. Also, everything that I seem to pick out for online order not one vendor has all three species. So I've decided to go with Blue Grass Aquatics and sort through what they online and try to come up with a 3 species from them. I'll go through them with the wife later tonight and post the stock that I have come up with and see what you more experienced guys think. Plus I'll make sure to post a pic or two of what the tank looks like now.

Thanks guys,
Tom


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## bac3492

Well whatever 3 species you chose... if they do breed and you need a place to grow out fry.... you can just go dig a pit in your yard and wait a few days for it to fill up with water.

Florida is well known for its square ponds :lol:

Just make sure there is no way for anything to get into natural waterways.

The synodontis always make an interesting addition to any mouthbrooders tank, especially if you have a mix of males and females. Sometimes you will have a female with a mouthful of cichlids, others times... cats


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## jsttryn

Well, I don't really plan on growing out any fry as of now. If my fish do breed my plan is to let them get snatched up. I have been planning on getting around 2 or 3 Synos cats but I haven't figured which one yet. I didn't realize there are tons to pick from. So I'm doing my research and seeing which one is active, stays relatively small (since I only have a 55 gallon 4' long), and is best to keep. As for my cichlid list stock, Halloween with the kids took my night and didn't get to go through the list with the wife. Hopefully, I'll get that done tonight.

Question, when I order my stock, I would like to have 1m/4f per species of 3 species. When I order how many should I order to best my chances of this ratio happening?

In the meantime, here is what my tank looks like so far. I'll probably get more rocks and build them up higher though. But I think its not a bad start. You can see the yoyo loach is loving the caves, but for some reason ever since I put the rocks in he has been tearing up the lone tetra. Even ripped off half his tale. I know I plan on getting rid of the tetra when I get the cichlids but dang.....take it easy.










































Any suggestions or comments are always welcomed and appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom


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## jsttryn

Another question I forgot to ask in my previous post was, can I keep Cynotilapia afra Cobue and Pseudotropheus saulosi together is a 55 gallon? I really love these two types for their color, not to aggressiveness, and small size. If I can keep these two types in my 55 gallon (with a possible third species, but might keep it just these two) then these will be a definite! And a few cats as well.


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## chinds78

In most cases your m/f ratio will be 50/50 so you may have to order eight of each to get at least 4 females. That's usually what I order. You could probably put four species in this size tank if they are smaller ones, 3 with a couple cats would be good too.


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## jsttryn

Thanks for the advice on how many to order. I'll do 8 each when I do. I think I'll just keep it with 3 species instead of 4. I don't want to many in there.

Any advice on the two species I picked out above?


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## chinds78

I think those two species together should be ok together. I know that saulosi for one can be quite aggressive and is usually kept in a species only tank. Consult the species articles on this site for more information.


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## jsttryn

Thanks for the info! I finally used the chat feature last night and asked the same questions and everyone on there said it should be fine and also one other guy had that setup before with a 3rd species and he said it was awesome. So I think I'll do that stock with a group of Rusties. 'll probably order eight of each in hoping I get at least 1m/4f.

Now, I currently have 2 fish in there from a previous tank setup and an old established filter running. If I add all these cichlids, plus 3 cats in there at one do you think it will be a shock and they will all die? I'm thinking because I will be getting them all very small (1"-1.5") and if I do 20% water changes daily for a week, that that should give the beneficial bacteria enough time to catch up. What do you think? I would go ahead and use the ammonia but not sure if it would hurt the current 2 fish in there.

Also, I can't seem to get my ph any higher than 7.5. Do you think this should be alright? I really don't want to use any chemicals. I currently have crushed coral mixed in with my sand.


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## jsttryn

OK, looks like my fish should be here tomorrow according to the delivery date, but I'm supposed to get a tracking number once they ship overnight...so we'll see. My new filter has been running for about 4 weeks now but I plan on giving it a few more weeks while the new fish are in there just o be on the safe side. Tonight I'll do another water chemistry test just to make sure all the parameters are good to go still. And I'll probably do a quarter water change since I'm getting some green algae (which I'll only remove from the front glass.

I'm freaking excited to get this new adventure started and so are my kids! Hopefully everything goes off without a hitch! And last minute advice before they get here? I'm kind of getting paranoid now LOL!

And by the way, none of this would have been possible without the help and guidance from all of you!

Thanks,
Tom


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## jsttryn

Also, on person said to add the bottled benifial bacteria to aid the new bio-load once I put them all in. This is safe for the fish correct? What brand would your recommend I get?

Didn't ask this questions before and feel better if I ask then assume. I've taught myself to never assume anything since I've seen people burn themselves assuming to many times.


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## skurj

You could try the Tetra Safe Start, I used it and had no issues.


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## rtirado

I have heard from several local fish keepers that Seachem Stability & Dr. Tims One and Only are the best two BB starters. I personally use the Stability and it works great, i was reading nitrates in a week with no traces of ammonia or nitrites.


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## Aulonocara_Freak

Go with Seachem "Stability" IMHO, I use it on all my tank's and it's a charm.


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## jsttryn

Looks like the jury's out on the Stability. I'll make sure to pick some up tonight and start adding it tonight as well. Expect pictures of my new additions to the family tomorrow! Freaking Excited!


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## jsttryn

Sorry, I had one more question....I never have had fish this small and never shipped to me. How long should I wait to feed them after I put them in the aquarium? Also, what kind of food (brand) is very good for these youngsters and how much at a time? I know this is making me sound very inexperienced (which I am) but I want to just make sure I am doing everything I can to keep these little guys healthy, strong, and happy.


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## jsttryn

Well, got the fish and they look great! Can't wait for them to get some color and personality!


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## Aulonocara_Freak

Now... were all waiting for picture's!!!


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## jsttryn

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> Now... were all waiting for picture's!!![/quote/]
> 
> Right now I have the light off to help them settle in a bit. I'll give them a few hours then turn the light on and shoot some pictures for everyone. I'm pretty excited, with the exception that my Yoyo Loach is acting like its his tank and he is every now and then chasing some of the cichlids. Kind of worrying me. I thought I was going to have to watch how the cichlids would treat him...not the other way around. If it gets any worse, I'll set up something for him.


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## jsttryn

Well, here are some pictures of my new stock. They are not that good but these buggers are fast and never stop moving. I really need to work on my picture taking. Hopefully I get some better close ups within the next few days.

As far as I know they all look healthy and happy, with the exception of one. As soon as I put him in the tank he was always sitting at the bottom rocking with the current. He swan her and there but still bothered me. After the first day though I couldn't see him or any other fish on the bottom and alot of them look so identical that I can't tell if he is hiding in the rock caves and still doing bad or if he is now one of the ones doing great and swimming everywhere. Every time I try to count them to account for the little guy they swim so fast and much that I can't tell if I counted the same one twice LOL. Any who, I hope you can make out the pics and I hope you like them.

I still plan on adding more rocks and moving all the filter stuff around as soon as I feel comfortable that my new filter is seeded and remove the old one.

Also, my Syno cats are awesome. They are much more active then I thought they would be..night or day. They are all over and they make the tank! The only issue is still my Yyo loach that harrasses all the other due to him thinking he is a bada** or something. If I see signs of ripped fins cause of him he just might have to leave.


















































Tell me what you think and any suggestions are welcome and appreciated!


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## Aulonocara_Freak

NICE! I really like it.


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## chinds78

Looking good *jsttryn*.


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## skurj

OMG!! the rocks don't match! looks just like mine...

A background would help if you can still get behind it to put one on, even if its a black stick on thingy.

Looks good to me.


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## jsttryn

I'm glad you all like it! I really like it much more than any other tank I have had. Again, I will be building the rocks up over the next few weeks.

As for the rocks not matching, I think it gets boring when you have a ton of the same dang thing and I love the different shapes sizes and colors of the rocks. They're not the same color but not to different to be irritating to the eye. Plus, I've never seen a lake that has one type of rock before LOL.

Also, I do plan on putting a backround, I was just getting everything that was necessary together and later cleaning it up. I think I'll just get a black or dark blue backround...I'll let the wife pick.

Oh, and I'll get some picks of the Syno cats...they remind me of little sharks!


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## jsttryn

Well everything has been great with the tank and the new little guys (which are growing and coloring really nicely)! However when I got home from work today my 7 year old told me that one of the Salouis (SP) had something wrong with its eye. When I took a look it looked as if its eye was gone and fungus was growing in its place. But after watching at different angle I think I do see its eye underneath the white. My question is what is this and what can I do? I never had anything like this happen before. Can this be irritation from maybe a sand particle in its eye, disease, being roughed up by the other fish (I haven't seen to much aggression yet, with exception to one bluing Salousi male)? Any help would be awesome, I would really like to save this little guy. Take a look below for yourself and let me know if posting this in the disease section would be a better place to put this. I just thought that keeping this on one thread would be the best.


















Also, later I post some pics of the coloring ones! I just really want to focus on the problem first.

Thanks,
Tom


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## Nodalizer

I replied in your Sickness thread about this fish. It has popeye. I asked a few questions about the condition in there.


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## jsttryn

Nodalizer said:


> I replied in your Sickness thread about this fish. It has popeye. I asked a few questions about the condition in there.


Saw your response. I really appreciate it a ton! We can just use the other thread to discuss this matter to keep it simple. I also responded back to your questions.

Thanks a bunch!


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## malady

looks good

i plan on doing saulosi and rustys too

i checked on bluegrass they have a good selection i was close to ordering until i found out shipping was $50 :x


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## Fishy_Cichlid

Nice fish selection and looking nice too. Tom, whats the substrate you are using in the tank, PFS or Silica sand ?


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## jsttryn

Fishy_Cichlid said:


> Nice fish selection and looking nice too. Tom, whats the substrate you are using in the tank, PFS or Silica sand ?


Thank you for the compliments! I'll be trying to get some good pics of the fish that are really coloring nicely after my salt treatment.

I'm using PFS with crushed coral mixed in. Its also my first time using sand period. So I'm going through all the first timer steps with this stuff. I think the last thing I need to do is to make sure to sift through it once ever 6 months to make sure no toxic gases get stuck under the sand. But I have to look that up again.


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