# Are these Metriaclima Callainos or Estherae or both??



## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

Went to finish stocking my 55 gal today. In addition to my Maingano and yellow labs, I picked up some zebras. There were no labels on the tanks (Mexico). So the zebras were all in one tank, a full tank of both bright orange and two greyish-purplish-blue. The man said they were essentially the same, just different color variations. I took home two orange ones, one of which he said he thinks is male and one female (says I can return and swap out fish when I need to) and the two bluish ones, both of which he had no idea the sex.

But then I got home, did some additional reading and am very confused. The fish store guy said the brighter, bolder orange cichlids are "generally" males and the softer orange ones are usually females. That conflicts with what I read just now. And confusing myself even more, I now wonder if I have purchased the wild type Estherae with the blueish fish being males and the two orange being female. The blue fish have faint bars... Also, these two blue fish are VERY shy. They stay huddled in the corner while all the other fish socialize. They are new, less than 2 hours in the tank though...

Photos:

























And the orange:

















Thanks!!


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Well, the orange ones are certainly M. estherae, since both male and female M. callianos are blue. The shop owner was right - the orange one may be either male or female, and males usually are a brighter shade of reddish-orange, while females tend to be more of a pale peach color.

The blue ones could be male M. estherae, but they could also be male or female callianos. Honestly, these photos aren't good enough to say one way or the other - and the fish need to mature a bit before you'll have any luck differentiating them by appearance. The fact that they were in with the red estherae makes it a bit more likely they are estherae, though. Try to get some better profile pics of them after they've acclimated a bit, especially ones that show the tail end of their dorsal fin (blue male estherae have egg spots on the dorsal as well as the anal fins).

By the way, keeping red zebras (especially the red X red variety) and yellow labs together is a bad idea if you want raise fry that are produced - they are notorious for easily hybridizing.


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## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

nmcichlid-aholic said:


> Well, the orange ones are certainly M. estherae, since both male and female M. callianos are blue. The shop owner was right - the orange one may be either male or female, and males usually are a brighter shade of reddish-orange, while females tend to be more of a pale peach color.
> 
> The blue ones could be male M. estherae, but they could also be male or female callianos. Honestly, these photos aren't good enough to say one way or the other - and the fish need to mature a bit before you'll have any luck differentiating them by appearance. The fact that they were in with the red estherae makes it a bit more likely they are estherae, though. Try to get some better profile pics of them after they've acclimated a bit, especially ones that show the tail end of their dorsal fin (blue male estherae have egg spots on the dorsal as well as the anal fins).
> 
> By the way, keeping red zebras (especially the red X red variety) and yellow labs together is a bad idea if you want raise fry that are produced - they are notorious for easily hybridizing.


Actually, it is the females that stay the deeper orange, while males become more peach in r x r zebras. I don't think some of the red zebras come from the same source as the bluer zebras though... look at the picture with the Ps. cyaneorhabdos, completely different head and jaw structure... likely been bred with Labs at some point.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Yeah, can't really tell with the blue ones. Yeah, the top one has too much barring for Calliaonos, but then might not be pure. Generally, the blue male Estherae are not in the mass market, at least not pure ones.

I agree that the 4th picture is probably a Red Zebra X Yellow Lab hybrid. The 5th picture looks more like Red Zebra, so maybe you have both.


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## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

Okay, I got some new photos for you guys, hopefully better profile shots. I am not expecting quality cichlids and am thinking we will end up with quite a few hybrids. I am not concerned with breeding and will probably just let nature take it's course (after the kids raise a few).

The blue ones are considerably more pale today. They are also the most aggressive I have so far, but among the largest at probably 2-2.5".

Here's fish we'll call "A", whom the store owner thinks is a male. He looks to have a very very faint bluish stripe on the top of his dorsal:

















This is fish "B" who store owner thinks is a female, same super-faint blue stripe on dorsal:

















Fish "C" is the darker of the two bluish fish. I don't see much in the way of egg spots at all, just one small faint one on the anal fin. 

















Fish "D" is really pale today. Just one small egg spot on the anal fin:

















And a few of them together:









Hope that helps!


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm leaning more towards callianos for the blue ones after seeing these new pics. I couldn't guess at gender for any of them at this point, although the blue tint on the fins of the red ones is typically a male characteristic. It's not developed enough to be definitive, though. Give them a couple months to get settled in and you should be able to tell.


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## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

So if these blue ones are Callianos, they are likely female, since their coloring is more of a dull grey-purple-blue. Is this correct, or will they possibly change colors as they grow?


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Manzana said:


> So if these blue ones are Callianos, they are likely female, since their coloring is more of a dull grey-purple-blue. Is this correct, or will they possibly change colors as they grow?


If They're Males, Then Yes - They Might Become more Vibrant As They Mature. It Also Depends On The Hierarchy In The Tank - If There Is Another Fish That Is Dominant, They May Stay Colored Down Even If Male. You Just Put These Fish In Your Tank A Couple Days Ago, Right? Give Them Some Time To Find Their Place In The Group Before Making Any Conclusions About Gender. Their Behavior will Also Help You Tell If They're Male Or Female.


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## Manzana (Jul 13, 2014)

nmcichlid-aholic said:


> Manzana said:
> 
> 
> > So if these blue ones are Callianos, they are likely female, since their coloring is more of a dull grey-purple-blue. Is this correct, or will they possibly change colors as they grow?
> ...


Right now I'm anxious to get extra males out because several now have shredded tails. The brighter orange zebra with the three eggspots seems to do most the nipping, but also the paler one and a very tiny, light colored (almost silver and grey) Maingano seem to have recently upped their aggression. Not sure what's going on. I have posted vent pics of the larger zebras in the Malawi Cichlids section.


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