# Stocking idea's needed



## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

I'm switching my tank over from a community tank to a mbuna tank and need some quick advice. My tank is 48" long, 18" tall and 18" deep and has been stable for several years so I'm not worried about the bacteria cultures etc. I will be switching the substrate from gravel to sand shortly and have started adding more rocks. Anywho I have located a breeder near me that has a bunch (20+) of yellow labs that are 1.5" or so for $3 each and 3-4 demasoni that are similar in size for $5 each...so I know I want a bunch of labs...but I've read that you need a lot of dem's in order to cut down on aggression so I'm thinking that 3-4 won't be enough and that I should just start with the labs (how many?) and go from there? I have a YoYo loach and a red tailed shark that I intend to keep (at least for now) and a small Cory cat that's been with me for years. I also have a skunk loach but I'm donating him to a friend that I gave some plants to...he now has a snail problem


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

Well first make sure your water chemisty is good for mbuna. They like hard water. I would shoot for between 76-82 degrees. Dems you should keep in large groups. 12+ is recommended. I would get 6 or so yellow labs because they will most certainly breed.

I have heard of people keeping red tailed sharks and yoyo loaches with mbuna and yellow labs are some of the most peaceful to do it with. I dont think your cory cat will survive however. I havent ever heard of that being succesful, but i dont have first hand experience.


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## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

Bac3492 is spot on with the numbers. If you cant get 12 dems another good fish to do a colony with is saulosi. If you have your heart set on dems then start with yellow labs and add dems when you can get your hands on a larger group.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

I picked up 7 small yellow labs tonight and donated the remaining community fish (a few mollies, danios and the skunk loach) to my buddy. I spent the better part of the evening replacing the old gravel with silica sand and getting started on my rock wall. I figure I have a while to figure out what the next group of fish I'll add as these guys are pretty small but finding the breeder certainly helps lower the start up costs.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

The saulosi look nice...what else makes a good companion to labs?


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I saw a pic of a tank with the following fish in it and thought it looked great. They are pretty mellow fish for mbuna so a good choice for begginners too. It was the yellow labs, Rusty cichlids (Iodotropheus sperengerae), and Pseudotropheus acei. I would maybe throw in one oddball fish for a centerpiece fish just cause I'm crazy like that :lol: maybe an albino socolofi or something that would really stand out.


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## khaki (Jan 12, 2008)

you should start off with 8 yellow labs and 10demasoni IMO and then start to bulid up.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you are going to go Demasoni (my favorite) then you want at least 12. You could build up to 12 over a couple of weeks, but you wouldn't want to have less than 12 for many months.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

I should mention that my tank is 12" deep not 18" so its a 45 gallon if my math is correct. I like the coloring of acei so I'll likely look at adding some of those to contrast the yellow labs and as Dewdrop mentioned add an odd ball in for luck Are Red Zebra's ok in singles if I have groups of labs and acei? Also what should my end goal be in a 45G as far as stocking rates?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> I should mention that my tank is 12" deep not 18" so its a 45 gallon if my math is correct. I like the coloring of acei so I'll likely look at adding some of those to contrast the yellow labs and as Dewdrop mentioned add an odd ball in for luck Are Red Zebra's ok in singles if I have groups of labs and acei? Also what should my end goal be in a 45G as far as stocking rates?


I would do a Trio of Ps. Acei as they do get larger - I have a trio in my 90 and they are very happy, females taking turns holding every other month or so - I have 1M:2F.

Stick with the labs you have - I would not add more.

How about a single male Demasoni as a showpiece fish since there is no real blue in your tank? - They stay smaller and the blue/black bars would really stand out with the more solid color labs and Acei.

I would add 3 Dwarf Pertricola if you have the filtration and call the tank full.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

What about adding some C.borleyi (link). P.Acei look great and are on my list if I can find them.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

C.borleyi are going to be to big. Not only are they about 8-9" long, but they are large (thick) bodied to boot, just to massive for a 45.

If you wanted the hap route - a small group 1M:2F of Peacocks should work, or even a couple of males, or some of the smaller haps (6in and under). Forget adding a Demasoni, or other mbuna, if you go that route.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up. I'll stick to finding some Acei and add a dem to round out the tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If your mix is going to be labs, acei and demasoni, I'd go with 6 each of the labs and acei and 15 of the demasoni.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

> If your mix is going to be labs, acei and demasoni, I'd go with 6 each of the labs and acei and 15 of the demasoni.


Isn't that too many fish in a 45G tank...esp. since mines now half full of rock? I thought I was just going to add a single dem to the labs (7) and acei (6)


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Maybe DJ didn't see where you corrected the tank size. Or being that dems are small fish, it maybe ok to add all 12 too, I dunno. Plus, your tank sounds like it's the same floor space as my 55g. just not as high. Floor space is what matters. Hopefully he'll come back and say.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

No the 45's aren't as deep as the 55's...mine's only a foot deep vs your's that is 18" deep.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

Here's a quick snapshot of my tank as it sits right now. IMO it still needs a lot of work as I'm not super happy with the rockwork just yet.


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

I think you should go with smaller rocks. Maybe flatter too. I always like the look of tanks with slate in them. What is that black thing too?


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

The black thing is a piece of driftwood that I've had for years and really like..though it may not fit the new tank layout.


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

driftwood softens your water. A chemical is released by it. I dont remember what its called however.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Isn't that too many fish in a 45G tank...


28 fish in a 45 with 13 non-dwarf, IMHO, yes. Unless you want to do a water change every couple of days.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

More realistic is water changes every two weeks


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The footprint is the same as a 55G so the stocking I suggested was the same. Height and gallons are less important.

I guess gallons could make a difference in water change frequency, LOL, I hadn't thought of that. But 50% weekly water changes would be a standard IMO for Africans.

So if you want to do a water change only every other week I'd do a single species dwarf mbuna to keep the bioload as low as possible. Demasoni (15) or Saulosi (3m:9f).


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

Sorry for the confusion on my part...for some reason I had it in my head the 55G's were deeper 

So 15 fish is about what I should be shooting for....assuming they're not that big? I intend on keeping the Yellow Labs of which I currently have 7 so given that if I add a single Dem would it be safe to add a small group of Acei?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> So 15 fish is about what I should be shooting for....assuming they're not that big? I intend on keeping the Yellow Labs of which I currently have 7 so given that if I add a single Dem would it be safe to add a small group of Acei?


7 juvi Labs you have
1 Demosoni
6 juvi Acei

Would look great and a weekly 50% water change would be just fine.

If you don't have a python, get one, they make the water changes a snap.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

Are Red Zebra's to be avoided even if I just add a single?


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

yep, they will mix with yellow labs very easily. No red zebra.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

What about Cobalt Zebras (Mettriaclima callainos) with yellow labs?


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

Never mind it looks like I'm going to add a bunch of Dem's as they're readily available as fry and have a strong following


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

To me the cobalts look just like the red zebras only blue instead of orange. They don't seem quite as aggressive as the red zebras but I'm not sure I'd trust them not to mate with the labs if that was all that was available to them.

I've been thinking about your tank size. It's 48" X 12" and 18"high, right? My 55g. is 48"X 12" and 21" high but if I only measure the glass and not the frame, the glass is 18"high.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

The outside dimensions of my tank are 12.75 deep (outside of glass) X 18.25 tall (including the plastic moulding) X 48.25" wide (outside of glass) so your tank is a little taller then mine.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you want to avoid 50% water changes every week (which I am not recommending, but believe I read was your goal), then keep the full size mbuna like zebra and cobalt to a minimum. I would not mix singles and breeding groups...too likely to be a hybridization headache.


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## Andrew Pratt (Aug 18, 2008)

No my new goal will be 11-12 Dem's and the 7 labs plus a small clean up crew


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## Moutralewn (Aug 27, 2008)

Andrew Pratt said:


> No my new goal will be 11-12 Dem's and the 7 labs plus a small clean up crew


I don't think there are any clean-up crews for mbuna setups.
IMO the best "cleaners" are the mbuna themselves. 

I mean....when you say clean-up, you mean algae, right?
Some of the best algae eaters are the mbuna.

For algae that grows on the glass, get a magnet.


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