# My New Calvus (PICS) few questions too



## Matt B. (Jun 29, 2005)

Hey Everyone, thanks for looking.......today I picked up 4 1.25" white (I think) calvus.....

There was only 6 left in the tank, but the 2 I left were half the size of the others...and they looked a little thin and starved........I thought they might just be females, but what is the likelihood that there is that much size difference at such a young age?

anyway....here they are......they are just in a bare 65g for now....it used to be a grow-out (that's why its bare), but today it turned into my new (and 1st) tang tank.

























anyway......now I got a a few questions....any help would be appreciated...

1) Is there any way to sex them at this age?....can you tell from the pics what m/f ratio I have?

2) What would be some good tankmakes?....I was thinking a few shellies or something with the Calvus as the "main" fish.

3) What should I do for decorations?......I bought a bag of white PFS (because I heard they will show more of their white colour with a white substrate.....the lfs had them over black substrate, and at the time I thought they were back calvus, because they were so dark).........and I have a couple shells, and a couple big rocks.....I plan to add it all tomorrow.......but what else should I put in it?

4) Can I put plants in this tank?.....I mostly want them to help with nitrate control (because calvus don't tolerate large W/Cs well).....I thought it might be alright because calvus are mostly carnivorous, so they shouldnt bother the plants..........What types of plants should I get, and can I plant them bare root in the sand?

5) If I get plants, I don't want to have a snail, or any other problems.....so how should I sterilize them before I put them in the tank (preferably without having to introduce meds etc. into my tank)

6) As you can see, they are just lying on the bottom of the tank......how long will it be before they start to move around, and eat?.....will adding decor make them more comfortable?

7) Are there any problems I should be watching out for?

8) Is there anything else that I should know?....this is my first time with calvus (really, any tangs, besides fronts and a few punkts)

Thanks again for any help you can offer :thumb:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the tank, is it 36" long? Answers to some of your questions:
1-no
2-shellies would be good, caudopunctatus are good too
3-decor plans sound good
4-yes. I have java fern on rocks and vallisneria and crypts planted in fluorite.
5-a short dip in a weak bleach solution will kill hitchhikers
6-the decor will make them more comfortable, and tankmates will help too
7-they are sensitive to chlorine, so if your tap water has any, even with dechlorinator, do large water changes cautiously.

Note that Calvus will form a pair (or if you are lucky a trio) and that pair will try to drive other Calvus out of the tank. So you start with a group (I have 6) and wait for the pair to form (about a year) and then remove the unwanted fish before they are killed.


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## TaNgS_RuLe (Sep 26, 2007)

I wish to correct the last point, altos do not really pair up, they form harems (eg. you can have a 2 m 5 female breeding group), the male breeds with any available female. Subdominant males however might be driven out by the dominant, but this is not an issue if the tank is big, and 65g is more than enough.


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## Furcifer158 (Feb 16, 2008)

TaNgS_RuLe said:


> I wish to correct the last point, altos do not really pair up, they form harems (eg. you can have a 2 m 5 female breeding group), the male breeds with any available female. Subdominant males however might be driven out by the dominant, but this is not an issue if the tank is big, and 65g is more than enough.


I agree


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## Matt B. (Jun 29, 2005)

DJRansome said:


> What are the dimensions of the tank, is it 36" long?


It's a 36x18x24.........I have heard some people say calvus are fine in a 30g, some say they need 55g......I wanted to put them in a sufficiently sized tank, but I don't have any 55g's.....so I thought, because a 65g has a larger footprint then a 55g, even though it is not as long, it would be fine for them........and according to the last couple posts, I thought correctly.



DJRansome said:


> 2-shellies would be good, caudopunctatus are good too


what type of shellies should I go with?.....Im looking for interesting behaviour.........
are there any fish besides shellies that I should consider?



DJRansome said:


> 5-a short dip in a weak bleach solution will kill hitchhikers


exactly what do you mean by "short", and "weak bleach solution".....do you mean like a 2 minute dip in a 1 part bleach 3 part water solution?........I have never really tried plants before and I don't want to bleach the [email protected]#$ out of them....so I need some more details.



DJRansome said:


> 6-the decor will make them more comfortable, and tankmates will help too


ok, right now they are in there with a similar sized albino BN pleco...thats it..........im going to rinse the sand and add the decor today....so ill keep you posted on how they are doing after its added.



DJRansome said:


> 7-they are sensitive to chlorine, so if your tap water has any, even with dechlorinator, do large water changes cautiously.


well.....Im on city water, so we got plenty of chlorine in out water.....I plan on doing about a 10% water change a week.....I dose a bucket of tap water with prime and wait about 20 mins before adding it.....that should be good enough for them, right?'

thanks again for the help, and the replies....your help is always very much appreciated


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Congrats on the new fish! :thumb:

My $0.02:
- your tank is plenty big, and you've got room for some tankmates. Shellies (take your pick but I find multies the best for interesting behavoir) and paracyprichromis would add great color and character as your altos grow out. 
:fish: 
- I do 50% WC biweekly, and just run a hose from the faucet to the tank. I've got chlorine and chloramines, and weird chemistry in my tap water. I add enough Prime to treat the full volume of the tank water, and dissolve my soda/salt in warm water then dump that in too. I'm not sure the 20 minute wait is necessary, but large (>25%) water changes are. IMO, 10% is not going to work for the long term.

Good luck!


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## Matt B. (Jun 29, 2005)

triscuit said:


> Congrats on the new fish! :thumb:


Thanks, juvie Calvus are impossible to find around here (I have been looking for months), and the adults go for $70+ each (and I have only ever seen 1 adult calvus for sale at a time).......Im really happy I got them, and they are even the variant I wanted......I don't like the back, or inkfin as much......I do like the yellows, but I have never seen one, so I knew I had no chance of finding them



triscuit said:


> - I do 50% WC biweekly, and just run a hose from the faucet to the tank.


I have a Python that i use to suck water out of the tank, but in a tank with sensitive fish, I like to dechlorinate the water before adding it....which is hard to do when the chlorine loaded water is going directly into the tank.



triscuit said:


> IMO, 10% is not going to work for the long term.


well......I have read many posts and topics where people have lost a group of juvie calvus right after a >/=25% water change..........and in almost all the topics where I have heard of that, it was stated that juvie calvus are not very tolerant of water changes, and it is recommended that tanks with juvie calvus be limited to 10% water changes weekly, at most.

as they get bigger, and more capable of handling stress, and as more fish get added to the tank, I might start doing larger water changes......but for now I don't want to take any chances.............if this group ever died, I would probably be forced to wait several more months before I find more.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I do up to 90% water changes with no impact, but I have well water.

Two minutes or less in 1 part bleach to 19 or 20 parts water using regular bleach bottled (plastic-jugged) sold as a 5% or 5.25% solution. No guarantees!

Glad to hear they form harems more often than what I've been reading. I think it's Charles that has posted a couple of times that he has never had luck getting more than one male to a tank. So maybe when my 6 juvies are in a 125G at year end I can have more than a pair!


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## Matt B. (Jun 29, 2005)

update:

I added the sand and a couple shells.........as soon as I was finished putting the sand in, they swam out of the corner (they have been huddling up in corners since they get into the tank) and started exploring.....now they are just hanging out on the bottom, or hovering just above the sand.....just being lazy and not moving much......
Since I put the white sand in they have lost the black barring on them, and turned much whiter, instead of that grey colour that they were before.

They still aren't eating......roughly how long will it be before they are comfortable enough to start eating?

Should I call up the place I got them from tomorrow (they're closed now) and ask what they fed them?......do you think they won't eat because they aren't used to the food I'm giving them?

while I'm on the subject of food.....what is the best food for these guys?.....I plan on feeding them NLS, bus I have also tried color bits, just to see if they would take it (with no luck)


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## Fishfeind (Jan 16, 2007)

try chopped up shrimp (raw). Peas? if not, they will get hungry eventually and likely et your flake ore small diameter pellets, good luck with those guys.


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

> now they are just hanging out on the bottom, or hovering just above the sand.....just being lazy and not moving much......


Thats what they do for the majority of the time. A. Calvus have been known to "pout" for a week or more when 1st brought home or when tank decor is changed. Now that you have sand you could put a small rock pile in there the give them some security.
As far as food, mine ATTACK frozen Mysis shrimp. I have a small 1/4 cup measuring cup I dip in the tank and add 1/2 a cube to thaw it in the tank water and then dump in the tank.


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## spitfiretjh (May 30, 2008)

yep mine love mysis too i also feed some krill but i have to chop it up. also i feed NLS


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## Matt B. (Jun 29, 2005)

Hoosier Tank said:


> > now they are just hanging out on the bottom, or hovering just above the sand.....just being lazy and not moving much......
> 
> 
> Thats what they do for the majority of the time. A. Calvus have been known to "pout" for a week or more when 1st brought home or when tank decor is changed. Now that you have sand you could put a small rock pile in there the give them some security.


I picked some nice big rocks out of the garden today......and they are sitting in bleach right now, killing any moss and any other stuff that I couldn't get off with the scrub brush.......I will add them tomorrow, most likely, after the bleach is all washed off and any residual bleach has bled off...........hopefully with some rocks in the tank they will be a bit more secure......for now, they don't move much until the lights go out (as soon as I turn the lights out I can see their little shadows get up off the bottom and start swimming around, probably looking for a good place to sleep :lol: )



Hoosier Tank said:


> As far as food, mine ATTACK frozen Mysis shrimp.





spitfiretjh said:


> yep mine love mysis too


ok, I'll get some mysis shrimp next time I'm at the lfs
you guys mean this hikari stuff, right?









until then ill try a couple other foods that I have on hand, and see if they take it.

thanks again for the replies
-Matt


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## spitfiretjh (May 30, 2008)

it doesnt have to be that brand but yep thats it its all pretty much the same. they will grow quicker with the frozen shrimp also. also its hard to get them to eat anything else after you start to feeding the mysis.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

IMO they might just be not eating cause of the totally bare tank ( stress ).

Once you get that decor and stuff in they'll get busy.

Congrats!!!! :thumb:


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## Matt B. (Jun 29, 2005)

spitfiretjh said:


> it doesnt have to be that brand but yep thats it its all pretty much the same.


I just picked that band because it is the one that I can easily find around here.



spitfiretjh said:


> also its hard to get them to eat anything else after you start to feeding the mysis.


 :? hmmmm.......I don't think mysis is a really complete balanced diet for them....is it? will it cause heath problems is all they eat is mysis?
....should I forget the mysis and just keep trying the NLS?

If it is really that hard to get them to eat anything else after they get mysis, then I should decide now if I will be feeding them NLS, or if I will just feed them mysis exclusively (since they wont eat anything else) ...............what should I do?...mysis, or NLS



JWerner2 said:


> IMO they might just be not eating cause of the totally bare tank ( stress ).


hmm....I never really thought of that (most likely because that tank has never had any type of decoration, or even substrate,and all the fish I had in it were fine).....but it's a good point....ill try feeding again after they get used to the decoration

Thanks again for all your help
-Matt


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## NeoAlaska (May 14, 2008)

Congrats on the great fish. I have some that look very similar to yours and they are great.

Mine took about 48 hours to get comfortable in a full scaped tank with a big rock structure setup for them. Strangely it has taken them 3 weeks to take up residence in the rocks. The actually hung out with the multies at first in the shell bed, until the multies kicked them out quite rudely. Then they moved in with the xenos over the sand. That lasted a couple of weeks and now they are moved into the rocks.

They did just hang out on the bottom for the first couple days though. No eating, but then, I didn't feed much for the first few days.

I was also concerned on water changes, my water is like Triscut's. But, the breeder I worked with to get these felt that it isn't so much water changes that bother them, but acclimatizing to new tanks, being shipped or changes in environment. Of course your mileage may vary depending on your water, but I have found this to be very true. They seemed to hate being shipped, and being in a new tank. But water changes (and I do about 30% or so weekly) don't seem to bother them at all. I do my water changes just like Triscuit does his (using his very helpful advise, Thanks!)

Mine are eating omega flakes and tetra granules very voraciously. They also go crazy for algae tabs that I toss in for my BN pleco (no algae in the tank yet). I didn't expect that, but they get in there and fight for it with the xenos and the pleco. Actually, it is kinda funny as they always seem to push it into the multies shells and drive them up the wall messing up the perfect world of the shell bed. Leading to hours of sand digging to "fix" the damage. I think my multies have a bid of OCD.


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Mine get NLS pellets daily and Mysis shrimp about 2 times a week. They don't turn up thier nose at NLS pellets, eat them well. but I can tell they REALLY like the Mysis. And yes, it's the small cube Hikari you have in your pic. You can cut a cube in half or quarters with a steak knife / ravor blade and keep the rest in the blister pack for next feeding.


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## spitfiretjh (May 30, 2008)

you deff need some substrate and some places to hit such as rocks or big shells so that they feel compfortable. and i would go with NLS during the week and mysis on the weekends.


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## Matt B. (Jun 29, 2005)

spitfiretjh said:


> you deff need some substrate and some places to hit such as rocks or big shells so that they feel compfortable.


Well, the rocks are in, and there are a few shells (I will have to buy more if I end up getting shellies to add to the tank).............they aren't really interested in the rocks or shells just yet....they are hiding in the corners and along the glass, not getting too close to the rocks



Hoosier Tank said:


> Mine get NLS pellets daily and Mysis shrimp about 2 times a week


that is kinda what I was thinking but when I read:


spitfiretjh said:


> its hard to get them to eat anything else after you start to feeding the mysis.


I didn't think that it would work.....I guess I took that a little too literally.
I will pick up some mysis and try feeding it 2x/week

as a side note.....this morning (before I put the rocks etc. in) they actually started eating the NLS....one would pick up a pellet, chew it up a bit, spit it back out, and then all of them would rush over and eat the little crumbs...................I tried feeding again after I put the rocks in, but they didn't touch it...they might have just not seen it (the pleco ended up eating it all)

now, I'm thinking about tankmates......I'm pretty sure I want some sort of shellies, but I'm not sure what species (the most common ones around here would probably be gold occies)

I am also looking for something that would add some excitement to the top of the tank (because they calvus and shellies are bottom dwellers, so it leaves the top of the tank with no real activity)

I have looked at cyprichromis, and paracyprichromis as some higher-level dwelling fish, but finding them around here would be just as hard, if not harder, than finding these calvus.
I will keep an eye out for them........but what other species could I put in this setup that live mostly in the upper part of the tank?

and another question I have is, the calvus right now measure about 1.25", if I add shellies (or other fish, possibly cyps, paracyps, or other fish that are suggested) that are about 1.5-2" (or more, for any non-shellie species), will they attack, or bother the calvus?

as you can see, the calvus are my main concern.....mostly because it took me forever to find them...and now that I have them, I don't want anything to happen to them.

Thanks again, 
Matt


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

> as a side note.....this morning (before I put the rocks etc. in) they actually started eating the NLS....one would pick up a pellet, chew it up a bit, spit it back out, and then all of them would rush over and eat the little crumbs...................I tried feeding again after I put the rocks in, but they didn't touch it...they might have just not seen it (the pleco ended up eating it all)


Thats a good sign of health at least IMO. They will refuse to eat do to the stress as mentioned but sooner or later they will get hungry enough and the will to survive will kick in.

I'm not sure if you checked in on this but what ever didn't get sucked up by the filter and stayed in the tank after lights out may have been eaten since they may have felt more secure.


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## Matt B. (Jun 29, 2005)

JWerner2 said:


> I'm not sure if you checked in on this but what ever didn't get sucked up by the filter and stayed in the tank after lights out may have been eaten since they may have felt more secure.


I thought that might happen, but there is never any left by lights out......I actually watched the pleco eat it...... He likes to wait a few mins for the pellets to soften up, then he eats whatever is left untouched by the fish

here is my latest update....

today I bought a pack of mysis shrimp......I will wait a few days for them to get used to the NLS, before I start to feed them the mysis

I also bought 3 bunches of Cabomba caroliniana, and 3 bunches of Vallisneria spiralis
I also picked up some "Had-a-Snail", which I am using to sterilize the plants.......I put the plants in a bucket (because I don't want to contaminate my tanks with this stuff) with an air stone to circulate the water, and added a 2x dose of "Had-a-Snail"...then after about 1.5 hours, I checked the bucket and there were a couple snails crawling up the side of the bucket (trying to escape the treated water I guess), and a couple more dead at the bottom....I dumped out the water, then I went through the plants leaf by leaf and picked off every snail I could find...which was only 1 snail (luckily there were no eggs laid on any of the plants)................I removed, and crushed every snail I found, just to make sure it was dead (I hate those little pieces of @#$% :x ).........then re-filled the bucket and did a 3x dose (to make sure everything is dead)......I will leave this until tonight....then empty it, check the plants for snails again, and then refill, with a 2x dose, and leave it overnight.
as you might be able to tell....I really dislike snails

here are a bunch of new pics of the Calvus (Im not an expert photographer, and I don't have the greatest camera, but at least I try.

























































let me know what you think of them

oh, and one last thing.....I'm still looking for input on tankmates...and answers to my questions in the 2nd half of my last post (2 posts up from this one)

Thanks, 
Matt


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Don't sell yourself short on the pics... fish that small are not easy to get good shots of and you got some nice photos.
Now I realy don't mean this as bad as it sounds but.... if you want to add the plants it's up to you but after that quit messing with _THEIR_ tank and let them get accustomed. You have did a good job with their environment but they will need to just be stable for a while. The changes you have made have been improvements but they have been though several changes in their life since leaving the breeder. Your Calvus will "pout" even longer.
As far as your tankmates question, I chose Julies and Occies. Calvus really don't get picked on much as they have a wonderful defence mechanism. Their scales are sharp and when another fish tries to bite them, Calvus curve their body towards the biter and the scales hurt the mouth of the attacker. Stops em in their traks. Almost as if to say "Go ahead, bite me" :lol:


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## imi (Mar 25, 2007)

if you want yellow calvus, mike has **** @ finatics.
just picked up 10 of them.F1 for$ 9.99 each. 1"1/2.
he is on Kennedy after Eglington.


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

last *** been to mikes place was on sunday.
hes got cyps and albino paracyps(though im not sure if he can take them out. in his show tank)
he had some larger calvus around 2 1/2 ish and smaller comps.

upper dwelling fish are mostly cyps and paracyps. though you can put rainbows and such in.

what kind of shellies are you thinking of(if you going to get them?)
i know where to get
stappersi
occies
multies
ornatipinnis
brevis
similis

calvus are real easy to find once you konw where to get most of your fish. just hsave to look in the right places :wink:


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## Matt B. (Jun 29, 2005)

Hoosier Tank said:


> if you want to add the plants it's up to you but after that quit messing with THEIR tank and let them get accustomed. You have did a good job with their environment but they will need to just be stable for a while


ok, ok, ....i'll stop changing stuff around :lol: ......thats it....the plants are in...now they are going to be left alone.



imi said:


> if you want yellow calvus, mike has fry @ finatics.
> just picked up 10 of them.F1 for$ 9.99 each. 1"1/2.
> he is on Kennedy after Eglington.


I have never been to finatics, so I wasn't sure what his stock was going to be like, and because he is about 1.5 hours away, he was going to be one of my last stops on my hunt for fish...and after I found what I was looking for, I just went home



Multies said:


> what kind of shellies are you thinking of(if you going to get them?)
> i know where to get
> stappersi
> occies
> ...


I actually have no idea what type of shellies I want....I was just going to pick out the nicest of whatever I could find........but if you know where to get all of those, I would love to know where to go.
could you PM me the names of the places where I could find all of those?
thanks
Matt


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## spitfiretjh (May 30, 2008)

here is my tank it has calvus and comps. also i added 8 paracyp. i like it, its a good combination.


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## Matt B. (Jun 29, 2005)

thanks for sharing the pics spitfiretjh.....cool looking tank :thumb:


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