# Aggressive Female Ram (Ramirezi) killed Cardinal Tetra



## jenngeb (May 22, 2016)

Hello all! I am new to this forum as well as cichlids. Right now I have a fully cycled tank. Prior to Friday, I had 12 cardinal tetras and 8 Rummy Nose tetras. On Friday, I added a Male and Female Blue Ram to my tank (drip acclimated 2 hours). Everything was fine until I fed them. All of a sudden the female went into attack mode and nipped the fins of 2 cardinals. Even though the tail was completely gone, I removed the cardinals to a QT tank and treated with Melafix. Later that night I found a dead cardinal floating on top of the tank. It had fin damage. Currently only 1 of the 2 cardinals that I moved to QT are alive. At first I thought the male did it. I actually saw it happen to one of the cardinals, but it was so quick that I didnt catch if it was the male of female and I just assumed it was the male (who had been being aggressive to the female earlier in the day - mating maybe?). Anyway, tonight I noticed that again at feeding time the female seemed to dart at the cardinals who were eating food off the substrate. I watched her dart at another cardinal this evening. She has not seemed to go after the Rummy Nose at all.

Is this normal behavior for a female ram? I know that not all fish labeled as community fish actually are, but I felt like I had some solid advice that they would be fine with these species. I will say that the cardinals are still young and are a bit on the smaller side. Sorry for the long post, but I really want to figure this out because I would rather not have to rehome them


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## Stepnik (Mar 25, 2016)

I have some thoughts, and I'm sure others do too, but first... 
What are your water parameters? PH, Temp - things of this nature.
Secondly, how big is your tank? Does it have lots of hides, plants, and/or sculptures?


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## jenngeb (May 22, 2016)

Stepnik said:


> I have some thoughts, and I'm sure others do too, but first...
> What are your water parameters? PH, Temp - things of this nature.
> Secondly, how big is your tank? Does it have lots of hides, plants, and/or sculptures?


Hey there! Tank is cycled - 0 ppm Ammonia, 0 ppm Nitrite, 0 ppm Nitrite. PH is 7.2 and very soft (I have added a small bit of crushed coral to raise my KH just enough to not worry about a pH crash). Temp is normally 81 F. Now it is 86 F because I am treating for ich. Tank is 29 gallons and there are lots of hiding places.

I think the rams are a breeding pair. Just FYI - I have rehomed the Female Ram and there have been no more cardinal deaths since. BUT I would like to introduce another Female at some point in time, so I would love to know what you all think about this.


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## jenngeb (May 22, 2016)

Sorry - I meant to say 0 ppm Nitrate. It is only zero now because I did a partial water change. But it is normally between 3-5 ppm.


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## Stepnik (Mar 25, 2016)

While I don't have any scientific research to back my findings, IME lowering the temp has made my cichlids a little more docile. I would love if someone were to weigh in on their experience, but if you wanted to force an introduction this may be something to try. Blue Rams like water above 80 correct? How bout lowering it to 78 while they get settled with the cards (which prefer a lower temp anyway). I don't think that much will kill them, and it might deter them from trying to chase the cards.

Have you thought about putting a screen in between them? Sometimes it helps to have them meet each other before putting them together. (I've only done this with 2 cichlids, not cichlids and a school of fish)

maybe the female was possibly thinking about breeding and the cards were getting a little too close...


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## jenngeb (May 22, 2016)

Stepnik said:


> While I don't have any scientific research to back my findings, IME lowering the temp has made my cichlids a little more docile. I would love if someone were to weigh in on their experience, but if you wanted to force an introduction this may be something to try. Blue Rams like water above 80 correct? How bout lowering it to 78 while they get settled with the cards (which prefer a lower temp anyway). I don't think that much will kill them, and it might deter them from trying to chase the cards.
> 
> Have you thought about putting a screen in between them? Sometimes it helps to have them meet each other before putting them together. (I've only done this with 2 cichlids, not cichlids and a school of fish)
> 
> maybe the female was possibly thinking about breeding and the cards were getting a little too close...


Interesting idea! Maybe I will try that next time. The Male Ram was definitely chasing around the female so it is likely that they were a breeding pair. Hopefully that will not happen again if I introduce a new female in the future.


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## jenngeb (May 22, 2016)

What do you think the chances are that if I add another female ram they will form another breeding pair and begin cardinal killing again? Don't the rams mate for life for the most part or is that a misconception?


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## Stepnik (Mar 25, 2016)

IMO if you had problems before, they will probably resurface.
I'm not sure if they mate for life, someone with more experience will have to weigh in.


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## jamntoast3 (May 15, 2015)

I honestly don't think your ram killed the tetras tbh, I wonder if they died from something else and got nipped post mortem. You could have an extra violent ram but I've had rams with slender tetras like that with no issues. Tetras are super fast and very nimble. They can easily dodge a little ram most times, if they are healthy


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## eaglesgift (Apr 25, 2015)

Mine didn't mate for life. They tried to breed a couple of times and then fell out. However, I had 1 male and 3 females in the one tank so maybe the male was spoilt for choice (unfortunately one of the females died last night/early this morning, so now I have 2 females and 1 male). They do go for the cardinal tetras sometimes (which do not prefer a lower temperature as far as I know: they like the same temperature as rams) and I have had 2 or 3 casualties over the last year and a quarter. I've never actually seen my rams kill any tetras but they do seem to target the larger ones, to the point they start to develop illnesses. I put them together to make the rams feel more comfortable but I'm not restocking any more. If the last 5 cardinals die, the rams will have to deal with there not being any small fish around.


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