# Williamsi Makonde Blue Lips



## graysilm (Dec 6, 2016)

I have 8 of these in my 125. They are around 3 inches long. 1 or 2 of them are starting to show color. I would love to hear from some of your experiences with this fish. How fast do they grow? How fast do they color up? At what size are they sexualy active? How big do they get? I would love to hear some of your experiences with this fish. Thanks


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Growth rate will never be uniform across different situations. It is dependent on water quality, water changes, food, and dominance in a tank. You would expect yours to be about 6" in a year, the males.

When they colour up, is also dependent on situations. A dominant male could emerge anytime now, if they are 3", and there aren't other more dominant fish in the aquarium. If there are other more dominant fish, it will delay the process, how long is not possible to know.

They should be sexually active soon, really as soon as you have dominant males. 6-7".. can be one of the more aggressive mbuna, but not as bad as auratus/chipokae etc...


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## graysilm (Dec 6, 2016)

Thanks for the info. Im 99% sure at least one of them is a male. He is starting to show more colors than the rest of my Williamsi Makonde's and is definitely one of the more dominant fish. I worry that he will end up getting bloat because he eats so much and I'm sure I'm over feeding him because I always have to put more food in the tank so the other fish can eat an adequate amount but he just inhales as much food as he can. All of them have blue lips and have since I got them. What do mature females look like?


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Bloat does not come from overeating, but overfeeding can hurt the water quality which can lead to bloat disease for any of the fish. Could you try a smaller size food than what you use, so he cannot hog the food?

Females basically look the same as juveniles, except for some variations in mood, and this is the same with pretty much all Malawi females. Mbuna females can sometimes look like dull males, but that is as much as they can change.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

We've found if a fish stops eating, whether he shows physical signs or not, they are usually on their way out from aggression. I think a lot of fish keepers associate this with bloat, trying to explain the situation. Keep feeding your fish and let them grow.
I agree with most of what fogelhund has said.

Here are a few pics of our williamsi.

Dominate Male









Dominate and active breeding female










Sub-dominate female


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## After_Shock (Sep 12, 2007)

Good to see some other owners with the Blue Lips!

*** recently got 18 juveniles of them and they are currently around 3cm long but growing quick, will thin them out when know who is M/F to get a good ratio but enjoying them so far.

Eager to see them colour up!


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## graysilm (Dec 6, 2016)

nice pictures. One of my Blue LIps is acting weird. I'm pretty sure it is a male. He is not too active or aggressive but has started hanging out in the back of he tank by the heater or filter intake about halfway up, sometimes closer to the surface of the water but usually around the midpoint. He seems to spend a lot of time in these spots. He appears healthy. Sometimes another fish will go hang out back there with him. Its almost seems like he is trying establish this area as territory but it seems like a really odd place for him to claim as territory. Has anyone else ever seen a fish behave this way?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes when they are chased away from the more desirable spots among the rocks and near the substrate.


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## graysilm (Dec 6, 2016)

How big are these fish when they become sexually active? And what are some of the appearance/behavioural traits of a holding female?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

A holding female has a bulge under her chin where she is holding the fry. Usually she won't eat.


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## After_Shock (Sep 12, 2007)

What size do the Blue Lips normally reach when full adult?

Im sure I read they are a similar size to Acei and the Chilumba I have when fully grown.


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## graysilm (Dec 6, 2016)

DJRansome said:


> A holding female has a bulge under her chin where she is holding the fry. Usually she won't eat.


Could this be a "holding female" I have pictured here. I have noticed that this fish has developed sort of a bulge in the chin area. She hasn't really been eating either. Initially I thought bulge was cartilage that was showing because the fish wasn't eating much and I attributed it to weight loss. The bulge is right in the center of the chin/lower jaw area. None of my other blue lips have this protruding chin. If feel like I couldn't catch a good pic that really shows how pronounced the chin is, but let me know what you think...


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Yes, that is a holding female.


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## graysilm (Dec 6, 2016)

Fogelhund said:


> Yes, that is a holding female.


Wow! What should I do with her? I have never bred cichlids before, and she is in a crowded community tank. I have read that you should let a female spit her first batch in a tank with other fish so they will learn to protect their fry. Is this true? I would like to raise and sell the fry if possible. Approximately how long do they hold the fry until they spit them?  Will it stress her if I net her and put her in another tank?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Do you know what day she started holding? I like to put them in the maternity tank at 18 days. The average days to spit is 28 days. I have also read that they will learn to protect their fry or learn to spit or learn to whatever. I am also read the opposite.

My fish rarely spit their fry when netted and always pick them up again once in the tank, so I think you will be safe there.

If you want to save the maximum fry I would remove her after 48 hours.

However, Fogelhund has suggested in another thread that if you provide a large private tank with lots of cover...you might be able to see her scoop them up in her mouth (without eating them) for a week or two before she starts eating them.


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## graysilm (Dec 6, 2016)

Thanks for the info. I don't know what day she started holding but I feel like I first noticed it about a week and a half ago. Does the bulge in the chin get larger as they get closer to spitting? Also, I have now noticed that I have a female Rusty that's holding. I wonder how likely it is that the female blue lips and the female rusty bred with the same species...Is cross breeding common, and if and when it does happen how long is it until you know that the fry are hybrids?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would move her now. The bulge stays the same or might even get smaller. If you have 1m:4f for the rusties and the Williamsi (and any other species) then hybrids are unlikely. I don't think you can ever know for sure if fry are hybrids so I don't save fry if I have a risky stocking.


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## graysilm (Dec 6, 2016)

Sounds good. One last question...Would it be a bad idea to put the holding blue lips and the holding rusty in the same maternity tank?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

graysilm said:


> Sounds good. One last question...Would it be a bad idea to put the holding blue lips and the holding rusty in the same maternity tank?


How big is the tank? Dimensions. Do you have much cover in it?


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