# Should i get rid of the fish?



## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

So as in my other posts, the cichlids i currently have are a pearl cichlid, jewel cichlid, a peacock, blue cobalt, male kenyi, and a greshakei. My yellow tail acei died for an unknown reason. I recently got rid of my original aquascape consisting of bricks from lowes that looked horrible and obviously unnatural. I added a ton of solid rocks from a local landscape supply and cured them. With the new aquascape, my kenyi is chasing the other fish non stop. I think he might of killed my acei and he's starting to really attack the other cichlids. I have no idea what to do. :-? :-? :-? :-? :-?


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## Michael_M (May 31, 2012)

Kenyi are too aggressive to be kept in a 55. Short term I would return him.

Long term you want to think about what you want to stock in the tank. Select either Americans, Mbuna or Peacocks.

For a colourful mbuna tank you could do 3 groups of for example; cobalt blue, yellow labs and Rusty Cichlids.

For a nice peacock tank you could select 9 or so peacocks that look different and have similar aggression levels. You want all males for this tank.

You will encounter more problems if you don't change the stock now anyway, so may as well get it over with so you can enjoy a nice stable tank.


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## Eugooglizer (Oct 30, 2012)

The Kenyi will eventually kill all of them. I made the same mistake when I first started keeping cichlids years ago. I bought a 55gal tank off Craigslist that had 12 different cichlids in it, peacocks, mbuna, haps, etc. One was a Kenyi, and over time, he killed every single other cichlid until it was just him and a pleco in the tank.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

It is so much easier to rehome them all and start with 8-10 of a species, up to 3 species, to get a nice breeding group that will spread aggression.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

The kenyi killed the peacock overnight  He didn't just kill him either he ate down to the skeleton. I will trade him in at my lfs today, thanks for the advice. What should i do with the others? All the other cichlids are very calm and dont really bother each other, even the jack dempsey.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

Just got back, I traded the kenyi for a yellow tail acei. Hopefully they all get along


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

If they don't, Floridagirl gave you good advice.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

What do you guys think about trading in all the africans and throwing in an oscar in with the jack dempsey and maybe the pearl cichlid?


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

The oscar needs a 75g minimum by itself.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes, and even a 75 will get small for a single Oscar. You need to decide what direction you want the tank to take. Africans are the best fit for a 55 gallon, IMO. Central and South americans will mostly get to large. There are exceptions. Do you want breeding groups, or a few cool fish. Or one or two larger fish?


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm leaning more towards a few cool fish, or 1-2 large fish


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

They killed the brand new acei overnight, need advice asap please :-? :-? :-?


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

So doing some research, I would like to keep the jack dempsey, maybe the pearl cichlid if i could but I have no problem trading him in as well. What would be good tank mates? I like the idea of adding something like a green terror or severum maybe?


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

So your stocklist now is
1 Geophagus brasiliensis (pearl cichlid)
1 Kenyi
1 greshakei
1 jewel
1 cobalt

First of all, do you want africans or new world?

Personally, I'd get rid of the geophagus, kenyi, and jewel, then start from there.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

What about a couple Jack Dempsey and some giant Danios for dithers. You could get an Electric Blue for variety.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

I currently have are a pearl cichlid, jewel cichlid, blue cobalt, a greshakei, and the jd. And i want to go new world instead of africans. Do you think I could keep the geophagus?


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

The Geo will get almost a foot. He won't be able to even turn around in a 55.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

Wont JD's get that big as well though?


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

the jd will get around 10 inches so i would not get it. 
How about a nice planted tank with some dwarf cichlids?


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm leaning away from africans, i've seen lots of 55 jd tanks with tank mates, i understand that they'll grow out of it but i'm willing to upgrade my tank size at that time. Right now my jd is only around 4 inches and i want to either keep my pearl cichlid or buy another equally small jd, severum, green terror, etc.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

IMO, probably not going to work long term. You'll run the risk of ending up with one fish, anyways.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

So in your opinion what is my best option?


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## jonathantc08 (Nov 16, 2012)

zachgomo said:


> They killed the brand new acei overnight, need advice asap please :-? :-? :-?


Step
1. Stop Everything
2. Read About Keeping Fish
3. Research Species
4. Make a Plan
5. Be Successful Because of your plan/research


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

My understanding is that the acei was killed by the kenyi.......a fish he no longer has. Definately wise to avoid the very aggressive mbuna in a 55 gal. mixed tank.

As far as the potential size of a pearl cichlid, I can't say they never reach 10-11" because numerous sources claim they get this large. Though personally, i have never seen one anywhere near this size. Had this fish as far back as the mid-70's.....so it's been in the hobby for a long time, yet I have never seen or owned one anywhere near this size. I tend to think it is more of an exceptional specimen; 8-9" being as a large of a male as i have ever known. And most definately 10" is a very exceptional size for a JD; most sources list 8-9" max. Fishguy had a very large JD that impressed many on this forum because of it's size......it measured 8 1/2".


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I like a 72" tank for a fish that will be 8" or larger.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Even if the Geo only gets 8 or 9", the tank is only 12" wide. Not very comfortable.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

Just to give me some ideas, how would you guys stock a 55g?


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## peterock44 (Jul 3, 2012)

if your steering away from africans, then rams, angelfish, and a school of larger tetras makes a nice looking tank


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

metricliman said:


> Even if the Geo only gets 8 or 9"


Assuming it is male.......based on zachgomo avatar, apears to be female. Therefore about a 6-7" fish, maybe 8" at most.

No doubt a 125 gal. would be much preferable to a 55 gal. I understand why 8" or larger haps would be too large for a 55 gal. ......they are very active fish and often kept in larger species groups. There is certainly not room for numerous 8" fish......but couple less active 7-8" CA/SA in a 55 gal., I don't see the problem as long as you avoid the more aggressive species.. I think few people would see a 55 gal. as too small to house JD or salvini....both fishes that can attain 8". Even our own 'cookie cutter' suggests a pair of cons AND a pair of sals in a 55 gal. ......something I know is unlikely to work out well over the course of many years , in that kind of space.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm gonna trade in the jewel, greshakei, and blue cobalt tomorrow, and see how the jd and geo work out. I know they're gonna grow out of the tank but again, I'm willing to upgrade my tank size when the time comes. That being said, i want to get some dithers. I found that giant danios are recommended, how many should i get? On other forums people were saying around 8-10 for a 50g


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

zachgomo said:


> I'm gonna trade in the jewel, greshakei, and blue cobalt tomorrow, and see how the jd and geo work out. I know they're gonna grow out of the tank but again, I'm willing to upgrade my tank size when the time comes. That being said, i want to get some dithers. I found that giant danios are recommended, how many should i get? On other forums people were saying around 8-10 for a 50g


I don't know if that is a good idea. Just 2 cichlids seldom makes for a successfull cichlid community. You don't need the high numbers that mbuna tanks often require to divert aggression.....but you need enough to make the community work (4-8 or so). If your going to go down to just 2 cichlids.....maybe your better off getting rid of them too, and consider different stocking (such as rams and angels).
Ginat danios make good dithers.....but eventually they could also end up in the belly of a JD. They do not work too well as target fish......they're unlikely to divert much of a cichlid's attention away from another cichlid.

If it were my tank I would continue on with the current stock......and replace the cobalt and acei with yellow labs, only if they become too aggressive. But maybe you would be better off starting over with new stock. Cryptoheros, Thorichthys would be well suited to a 55 gal. or SA dwarfs and/or angelfish.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

I do not have an acei anymore. My current stock is jd, geo(pearl cichlid), greshakei, jewel, and blue cobalt. My jewel is a little prick and is always picking on everyone. If i were to go trade in all but the jd and geo what would you reccomend getting? Unless you think my current stock could work. Ever since i took the kenyi out they calmed but the jewel, greshakei, and cobalt are still a little overly aggressive.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Well a female convict has pretty good chance of working. Get one, or a group of 3 or more. Other Cryptoheros/Archoecentrus would be options as well, instead of the female convicts, such as A. centrarchus or HRP. Avoid pairs as you really don't have the space in 55 gal. with a JD and a brasiliensis. Stick with females for the more aggressive species, such as convicts. Thorichthys species, such as an FM is also an option.A single blue acara is another option.
I think a small group of yellow labs have better chance of working out well then a cobalt or greshakei


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

I like the idea of yellow labs, by small group do you mean around 3?


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

I thought we had already debated and decided that mbuna and Jack Dempseys are not a good mix. Labs are mbuna. I'm sorry, you keep hoping someone will give you an answer you will like. I'd like to hear from someone who had a 55 gallon for longer than a year with any of these fish mixes. From my experience, they have one fish left and are discouraged from the hobby, or all dead from disease and the tank is in the garage. At best they traded adult fish in and restarted with babies. It's easy to say you will get a bigger tank when they need it, but if you get a bigger tank now to put in the babies in, they will grow faster, larger, and heathier. And, you can get what you want. There are lots of great fish that could live in a 55 gallon and work long term. But, I personally think even Acei get to big for a 55, let alone JDs and Pearls.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Floridagirl said:


> I'd like to hear from someone who had a 55 gallon for longer than a year with any of these fish mixes. From my experience, they have one fish left and are discouraged from the hobby, or all dead from disease and the tank is in the garage.


Quite the exaggeration. And yes i have kept JD with mbuna for many, many years with out any problems between the two. I am far from the only one; many, many people have done so. JD with mbuna in a similar sized tank ( 50 gal.,48" X 15" x 15") for many years; that specific mix JD with yellow labs in a 100 gal. (48" x 24" x 21") for a number of years. I've generally always owned at least 1 mbuna over the last 35 years ......so I have had a mix of some sort for a long time to draw my own conclusions.

In general, CA tends to be far more aggressive towards other CA, or even SA for that matter, and at least over time, focuses far less on mbuna .Especially in small space, IMO, sometimes mbuna make far better tankmates then do other CA which become more and more competitive over time. And generally the less aggressive mbuna, the better the chances of working out. Of course you can't predict the future.....allkinds of posssibilities can happen with cichlids.

I 've been down this road/debate many times......and i know i won't convince anyone that has got very close minded ideas on how to stock a tank. And the minute there is a problem, it will get blamed on mixing wether it a problem of introduction or an aggressive problem fish like a kenyi.

I agree an acei is alittle large for a 55 gal. ....when it is being stocked in a group of 4-5 or more! Yellow labs, I would try 4. Ginat danios you could try 4-6 as well, though the yellow labs will more then fullfill the dither role and make their tankmates feel comfortable.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

From my reading the mix of JD and Malawi is maybe 50/50 chance of success. I have no doubt BC is in the group that has had success, but when recommending a mix for a member to try that is already having problems, it's no surprise that one would recommend something as trouble free as possible.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

I reread my post. I came across as more harsh than I intended. I still think the JD, Pearl and Labs are a bit much for a 55. And I wish every success to everyone on CF with their tanks. But, do a search on 55 Jack Depmsey and see what come up. Lots of previous post just here on CF as well as other sites. I want ZachGomo to have a positive experience which doesn't occur when you keep finding dead fish, as he has been.

Also, I jumped to aggression conclusions, but it be nice to check ph, temperature (lower helps with agression usually), ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

And I have tried some unusual mixes with my tanks. I have Petros in with Fronts right now in a 220 (a big no-no to some) But, I also have a tank to move the Petros out, at a moments notice, if it doesn't work. I previously(15 years ago) kept a 29 gallon with a JD pair and moved them to a 55. It can work, but I raised them together from 1" fry to get that pair, and the 55 looked overcrowded with 2 fish.

I've said my peace. Good Luck Zach!


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## Michael_M (May 31, 2012)

I find my tanks more enjoyable when things are working and there is no drama to be seen. You can continue to attempt odd mixes and maybe make it work eventually or concede and enjoy the tank.. as soon as tomorrow.

I know nothing about Americans so I can't offer any advice about making it work or stocking a 55 with others but there are plenty of good mbuna options in a 55, if you change your mind though.

Good luck anyway, you may need it.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make this work out. I would like to keep either the jd or geo for sure. Since i have found a lot of people having success with mixing the jd/geo with mbuna i'll probably do that. Is there a certain species of mbuna that is reccommended? I don't just want to pick up a bunch of random fish like before i'd like to get 1 group of the same species. And floridagirl, temp is set to 79, i do not have a test kit but i get my water checked regularly at my lfs and they use the api test kit.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

zachgomo said:


> Is there a certain species of mbuna that is reccommend


No, ther is no species that
a is particlailiy recomemend,, but yelowl abs should do fine in most situautions.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

Do you think the geo would mix well with the mbuna?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think some of us do and some of us don't. Personally, my yellow labs are not mixing especially well even with my haps and peacocks, so I would not do it. Go ahead and try it as long as you have a backup plan.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

Okay so I think i will trade in the geo, jewel, blue cobalt, and greshakei leaving only the JD. How many mbuna should i add? 5?


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

Also I just called both my lfs's and neither of them carry yellow labs or mbuna  I have both a petco and petsmart near me, i prefer going to petsmart because of the much bigger selection and the employee's in the fish section surprisingly actually know somewhat what they're talking about. Would either places have mbuna?


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

They'll have mislabeled/hybrid/poor quality mbuna for sure, maybe you'll luck out and get some nice ones.

I like to get 8 or so juveniles when I want a new species group, that way there's a good chance of getting enough females to keep the group stable after I sell/trade the extra males. I've never done it myself, but possibly you could mail order them?

I traded a fellow hobbyist for some of my yellow labs, and they're among the best looking ones I've ever seen. My local Craigslist has a bunch of hobbyist breeders selling really nice fish for cheap.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

zachgomo said:


> Also I just called both my lfs's and neither of them carry yellow labs or mbuna  I have both a petco and petsmart near me


Hard to beleieve that your local petsmart does not have any mbuna! It is the rare employee at a big box store that knows much about cichlids......so most likely they simply are not even familiar with the word mbuna,while having a few mbuna species in stock. Anyways, yellow labs would be on there list, and could easily be ordered. If you get rid of the 'geo', then a larger group, 5-8 or so, could be purchased.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

No my mom n pop lfs's dont carry them. I went to petsmart and they have a ton of yellow labs but they're only around 1-2" long and my JD is around 3-4" so do you think that would work or would the labs be to small?


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

As long as they are too large to be easily swallowed.


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## jas1313 (Dec 3, 2012)

If you're leaning toward south American the sevrums a good choice. I had 2 turqs that were gorgeous,along with a jack and a few convicts. I'd go all African though. I'm in the process of switching over.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

Do you think i could do severums in a 55 with a jack?


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## jas1313 (Dec 3, 2012)

Sounds like everyone's luck is different. I had 2 severums,jack,convicts in a 55 for 8 years. 2nd jack died from illness after 3 years. So it worked for me


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

My geo keeps chasing the JD, should i add some dithers? Please respond ASAP!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You may want to PM BC in SK because he/she seems to be the one with experience with mixes like this. I would remove either the geo or the JD.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

How big is the Jack? How long has he been in the tank?


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

Around 3-4inches and like 4 months


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

zachgomo said:


> Around 3-4inches and like 4 months


It has been a while since I kept new world cichlids but I don't think you are going to have much success finding some locally that are going to stay 6" and under. I wouldn't recommend filling the tank with fish that get much larger than 6". There is not a whole lot of floor space in a 55g to begin with and adding aggressive fish that get large is not usually going to work long term. Are you able to order fish online? I have been placing all my orders online and very happy. Much better selection and I am able to get exactly what I want without all the worries.


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## zachgomo (Jun 14, 2012)

Which sites do you recommend?


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

No recommendations allowed on the forums. Check the reviews or ask for PM's.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

zachgomo said:


> Which sites do you recommend?


I will shoot you a PM.


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