# Ph Debate for Tanganyikan Tanks



## Jesseschu (Mar 16, 2011)

Hi All,
Thanks in advance for your opinions and assistance.

I have an all tanganyikan tank, and house mostly F1 species of Tangs. At this point, I have no WC's.

What should the ph be? If I did have WC's, would your answers change?

Thanks for the help!


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## swk (Mar 16, 2010)

If your tap is over 7, then I would do nothing, in both cases.

Boom, let the debate begin


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I would take the pH up to a stable level of about 8.2 partly because that is what my main supplier keep theirs at and garentee the fish (money back if they do badly) if I do not cut corners.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

swk said:


> If your tap is over 7, then I would do nothing, in both cases.
> 
> Boom, let the debate begin


If you do nothing and don't check the KH (buffers) of both tap and tank, that pH could suddenly drop to well below 7. It's called a pH crash. Focus on KH instead of pH. Get your KH up to 8-10 and let your pH fall where it will. It'll be stable and that's what's important. Never look at pH alone. WC, F1, TR, doesn't matter, stabilize the pH.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

prov356 said:


> If you do nothing and don't check the KH (buffers) of both tap and tank, that pH could suddenly drop to well below 7. It's called a pH crash. Focus on KH instead of pH. Get your KH up to 8-10 and let your pH fall where it will. It'll be stable and that's what's important. Never look at pH alone.


Agreed. It doesn't take much to add baking soda, which increases your KH measurement, and by default, raises your pH to 8.2.

pH is a proxy measurement for ionic equilibrium in your water... it doesn't mean much on it's own, but will tell you how to interpret other measurements.

As far as what the fish need- Tanganyikan cichlids evolved in alkaline waters. It's important to consider what that means for their long-term health if you are going to keep them at pH 7. I'm a geochemist, not a ichthyologist... so I don't know which/how physiological processes are affected by alkalinity, but I am familiar on how biological communities reflect their local water chemistry. I can't imagine that fish and their microfauna in our tanks are immune from such influences. (yes, I am a big geek  )


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I can't imagine that fish and their microfauna in our tanks are immune from such influences.


I suspect the same and it's just my gut feeling, so I like that the baking soda raises the pH like it does. I see lots of posts where people speak of and ask about pH while never mentioning KH. Common mistake.


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

From what I gather, Littleton gets their water from Denver Water. I would not do a thing to your water - aside from a conditioner (like Prime) as you have chloramine. Denver Water adds alkalinity to the system, resulting in a somewhat stable pH between 7.5 - 8 (with a high side just over 8.0).

It's much like the water I have here, and a perfect base for Rift Lake fish. It has worked perfectly for me for decades without me doing practically anything to it. The less you mess with it the better I say.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

"Adding alkalinity" is unclear, and does not mean that the municipality has done anything to ensure pH stability. Typically, pH for tap water is raised to prevent lead dissolution from household plumbing. To raise pH, utilities usually add NaOH, which is a strong base. When that base encounters organic acids in an aquarium, it's instantly neutralized and your pH will drop. Carbonate buffering works because H2CO3 is a diprotic acid. In pH 6-8, -HCO is the most abundant form and can gain protons (H+) if pH is below 8.2, or lose protons if pH is above 8.2.

A KH value is necessary to determine if the water is "perfect" or far from it.


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

triscuit said:


> (yes, I am a big geek  )


You could say that again. 

But in all seriousness, I don't know what "adding alkalinity" entails, and it is possible that the wells or glacial water that is pumped in (or whatever) is not as hard as my Lake Michigan water. The Denver Water report started that they keep a stable pH of what I wrote. My brother lives in Aurora and best friend in Denver and neither have ever had any issues using it as is.

I just consider myself lucky living where I do with the water I have and able to keep it simple. That would really suck if I had to go through all that hassle for all my tanks.

EDIT: Most of Denver water comes from snowmelt and Littleton gets their water from the Marston plant with tested levels of... 
Measured daily pH >=7.5. 
Alkalinity, Total as CaCO3 = 62
Hardness as CaCO3 = 108


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

kenko said:


> I don't know what "adding alkalinity" entails.


Thats just adding baking soda (Sodium bicarbonate) until the pH becomes stable at a more lake like level. KH 8 -10 deg on a test kit.

Here you can get it cheapest from Chinese supermarkets by the bucket for very little money.


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

LOL 24Tropheus - it was a quote regarding triscuit, actually. 
Though for the benefit of others.


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