# Stocking for a 200gal?



## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm building a 200gal tank now so what is a good colorful stocking that includes Yellow Labs?

Colors like Red Blue Striped, White, etc.

Thanks,

TRS


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the tank?

Mixed genders or all-male?


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

Mixed genders. tank would be 72x22x30


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Yellow Labs, Red Zebra, Giant Demasoni, Acei, Rusty, Maingano, Albino Socolofi. Build high rockwork..Actually Topfin makes a "Craggy Rock" that are large and hollow, and light, but $50 each.


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

How many of each?


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## Michael_M (May 31, 2012)

I'd start with 12 of each except the demasoni which I'd buy 20+.

Eventually you want 1m to multiple females 4+ for all those species except demasoni. For socolofi and maingano I'd be inclined to have more females more like 7, while with acei/labs you would only need 4.

With the demasoni you probably want a few males to heaps of girls. I find odd numbers of males work best, so in your case probably 3. I'd keep every female from the batch.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

The Giant Demasoni are actually Met. sp. Dolphin, and are not stocked like regular Demasoni. Here is the link to their profile.


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

Okay thanks. that will be my stock or very close to it.

what's a very colorful hap peacock tank. also 200 gal

thanks

TRS


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

therealshane said:


> Okay thanks. that will be my stock or very close to it.
> 
> what's a very colorful hap peacock tank. also 200 gal
> 
> ...


All males that don't look alike.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

This could work... Yellow Lab, Giant Demasoni, Crytocara Moori, Albino Peacock, Copadichromis Borleyi


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Don't combine yellow labs and red zebras if you want to save fry.


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

These would be stripped when bearing. That way I could keep the fry right?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

therealshane said:


> These would be stripped when bearing. That way I could keep the fry right?


No, the red zebras and yellow labs often interbreed when kept together, causing hybrids.


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

How wouldn't I be able to save fry? I don't mind hybrids. I won't sell them by either parent'a name. Hybrids can result in some cool colors.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

therealshane said:


> How wouldn't I be able to save fry? I don't mind hybrids. I won't sell them by either parent'a name. Hybrids can result in some cool colors.


You can save the fry, but the suggestion being you shouldn't save them for the purpose of selling them at all, or let them out of the house, just not responsible. Hybrid Lab x red zebras don't really have as cool of colours as either parent...


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

It'a perfectly responsible but I know it might not meet some people's beliefs.

We could basically create cultivars for these. So they don't confuse anyone. For example call a Red Zebra x Yellow Lab a 'Sunset'.


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## peterock44 (Jul 3, 2012)

the problem with that is if/when you sell your "sunset" hybrids you cant guarantee what people will do with them. if they breed them to pure strains then sell the offspring as pure then the bloodlines get muddied up with unwanted genes. when people buy a lab or a red zebra (or any other pure cichlid) they want to know that it is pure and not a mutt.


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

peterock44 said:


> the problem with that is if/when you sell your "sunset" hybrids you cant guarantee what people will do with them. if they breed them to pure strains then sell the offspring as pure then the bloodlines get muddied up with unwanted genes. when people buy a lab or a red zebra (or any other pure cichlid) they want to know that it is pure and not a mutt.


Yeas, but that is in their hands. And if you sell 'Sunset' you don't need to tell them what it is. Just a picture and the temperament, etc. They'd have to dig deeper to find out what it was.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

But some people won't do that. YOU have to be responsible. Don't put the responsibility on the next guy. If you had 'sunset' hybrids then you should tell them they are hybrids because if you don't your just screwing up someone's breeding plan down the road.


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

metricliman said:


> But some people won't do that. YOU have to be responsible. Don't put the responsibility on the next guy. If you had 'sunset' hybrids then you should tell them they are hybrids because if you don't your just screwing up someone's breeding plan down the road.


Then they'd be sunset. I'm not gonna call them red zebras. I'm responsible for selling themas Sunset. If the guy calls them whatever it's on him because it's not what I sold it to him as.


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## peterock44 (Jul 3, 2012)

therealshane said:


> metricliman said:
> 
> 
> > But some people won't do that. YOU have to be responsible. Don't put the responsibility on the next guy. If you had 'sunset' hybrids then you should tell them they are hybrids because if you don't your just screwing up someone's breeding plan down the road.
> ...


do you really not see the problem with distributing hybrids? lets take this to an extreme hypothetical. lets say everyone just breeds whatever female they have to whatever male they have. now mind you "everyone" is doing this. eventually all you will have is hybrids in the hobby that dont even come close to resembling the natural wild fish. there is no benefit to the hobby in breeding and distributing hybrids. go on a tarantula forum or dart frog forum and start a thread on hybrids and see how fast you get flamed and laughed at. not trying to be mean here at all, but what benefit to the hobby do you see in creating and distributing these mutts?


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Look, if you have hybrids, don't distribute them. Period. End of story. If you have hybrids and you have nowhere to put them, that's your fault. You shouldn't screw someone else up just because you screwed up. Sorry if I upset you or PETA but just cull the fry.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Just to make myself clear, by "because you screwed up" I mean because you produced hybrids.



> Then they'd be sunset. I'm not gonna call them red zebras. I'm responsible for selling themas Sunset. If the guy calls them whatever it's on him because it's not what I sold it to him as.


It's on him. But it's also on you. *You* produced those fish, which then *you* distributed. Then this guy buys those fish, thinks they look like red zebras, thinks you misnamed them, sells them to another guy as red zebras, who then breeds them. He takes those hybrids, proclaiming them as "pure", sells them to another guy who breeds them. Yet again they are proclaimed as "pure" fish, the cycle goes on and on. This all happens because *you* said "I don't mind hybrids".


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

therealshane said:


> metricliman said:
> 
> 
> > But some people won't do that. YOU have to be responsible. Don't put the responsibility on the next guy. If you had 'sunset' hybrids then you should tell them they are hybrids because if you don't your just screwing up someone's breeding plan down the road.
> ...


So, in distributing a hybrid, and selling it to person X, you shirk the responsibility that person X sells them as Red Zebras, even though you knowingly supplied the market with said fish? Person X sells them as Red Zebras, they get mixed into the breeding groups, and suddenly there are no pure Red Zebras, because you've supplied the market with them. I'm sorry, but it is not possible to control what happens with hybrid fish once they leave your door, and in my opinion, it isn't responsible to do this. There are plenty of fish to keep, without knowingly taking on a risk such as this. ... and btw, my example isn't outlandish, I've seen it happen with some species.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks Fogel.


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

If it's sold as a Sunset then the person calls it a Sunset no Red Zebra no Lab. If you don't associate the parents name with it there should be no confusion and there shiuld be a new fish on the market(well a cross but with it's own name)

If I did decide to sell these I wouldn't call them sunset because that's used here now. With venus flytraps the seeds of a cultivar will not be true to the parent so we just call them typicals. So occasionally you get a nice one and you name it and it is no longer a "typical".
There are a lot of dogs which are mutts that are renamed instead of being called a mutt. There aren't sold as their parents. 
When I sell them I would make a name where no one knows what is is it would just be a new name so they wouldn't be able to sell it as something else.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

But hybrids often look like their parents. Even if you try your best to market it as a hybrid, someone may try to make some money or make an honest mistake and sell the fish as a "pure" fish. Then down the road someone's whole breeding program will be screwed because you decided to distribute the fish as a hybrid.


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

But I wouldn't have distributed as a hybrid. It would be a new name that no one would know what it was. I do see your point. But if I sell it to them as a Sunset, they know what they're getting. If they are trying to make a quick buck that's their fault. Not on me after I put the box in the mail. I'd only sell something if it looked really nice and unlike the parents though.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think because of the unique evolution of Malawi cichlids, hybrids are more offensive to Malawi hobbyists than some other hobbies.


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## peterock44 (Jul 3, 2012)

any bets on when we see the first, "sold as a sunset but what is it really?" thread.....

you cant really compare dogs to fish, its apples to oranges. yes there are alot of "new" dogs out there. they are mutts, what they call designer mutts, but mutts all the same. if someone wants to pay 1000 dollars for a golden doodle thats their business. but i'll take a good ol golden retriever any day. it doesnt matter what name you come up with, a mutt is a mutt. and i'd think its pretty safe to say that the majority of real african cichlid enthusiasts want pure, unaltered fish stock. putting these lil fish into tanks is as close as most people will get to going to one of the rift lakes and seeing these fish in the wild. when i look at a fish i want to be able to say exactly what it is, not take guesses at what was used to make it. anyway, just realize the long term potential harm to the hobby when/if you distribute these fish.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Look, Shane. Sorry if I misjudge you but here goes. Please stop only looking for the answer you want because, frankly, you aren't going to get it. In your thread about feeding worms, I've told you twice to stick to fish-based protein and you are still looking for the answer you want. Hybrids are frowned upon in this hobby because people want to see the fish in their natural habitat. This is why so many people try to create biotopes. People with real rock and sand in their tanks want the fish that would normally be there, not some pink hybrid that has never seen the 'Great Lake'. If you want to mess up the bloodlines that have have been painstakingly created so people can have a biotope, we can't stop you. What we are saying is that people want pure fish and are often very pissed when they find out their breeding male or female is a hybrid. What we want is less hybrids, and ultimately less people who get frustrated by the fact that they've bought a hybrid. 
People aren't going to keep responding to your questions if you don't listen to them.


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

peterock44 said:


> any bets on when we see the first, "sold as a sunset but what is it really?" thread.....
> 
> you cant really compare dogs to fish, its apples to oranges. yes there are alot of "new" dogs out there. they are mutts, what they call designer mutts, but mutts all the same. if someone wants to pay 1000 dollars for a golden doodle thats their business. but i'll take a good ol golden retriever any day. it doesnt matter what name you come up with, a mutt is a mutt. and i'd think its pretty safe to say that the majority of real african cichlid enthusiasts want pure, unaltered fish stock. putting these lil fish into tanks is as close as most people will get to going to one of the rift lakes and seeing these fish in the wild. when i look at a fish i want to be able to say exactly what it is, not take guesses at what was used to make it. anyway, just realize the long term potential harm to the hobby when/if you distribute these fish.


It stil seems unlikely that someone would change the name of what it was sold to them as. I'm betting that there are hybrids out there already floating under their parents names but they weren't sold under a different name. But like aI said before. I would only sell them if they looked VERY DIFFERENT from their parents.


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

Okay Have the video. One second. Sorry for it being 360p. My Galaxy won't let me text HD ones.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

therealshane said:


> It stil seems unlikely that someone would change the name of what it was sold to them as. I'm betting that there are hybrids out there already floating under their parents names but they weren't sold under a different name. But like aI said before. I would only sell them if they looked VERY DIFFERENT from their parents.


They wouldn't look very different from their parents... I've seen this hybrid before. People change the names all the time.


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## peterock44 (Jul 3, 2012)

He is looking for the answer he wants to hear so he can justify creating hybrids....aint gonna get it, so ill just leave ya be. Hopefully few if any survive to be sold and pollute the gene pool of pure fish


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## therealshane (Nov 1, 2012)

peterock44 said:


> He is looking for the answer he wants to hear so he can justify creating hybrids....aint gonna get it, so ill just leave ya be. Hopefully few if any survive to be sold and pollute the gene pool of pure fish


If it's under a different name it wouldn't be unless some other guy does wrong wit it. No need to justify. Creating hybrids is perfectly fine it's just the hobbyists opinions that makes it seem wrong, and leaking them into the public with their cross name which may confuse.

Any ID's anyone?


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## peterock44 (Jul 3, 2012)

But its the hobbiests that will unsuspectingly end up buying these hybrids.....with all the people collecting, breeding, and enjoying cichlids do you really think there havnt been yellow lab/red zebra hybrids? There are a great many threads in the unidentified cichlids section covering this exact topic. Go look in any "mixed" african tank and your almost guaranteed to see them. In many peoples opinion the hybrid offspring are no where near as amazing looking as the pure strains. If you want to create them, then thats on you. But dont try to justify distributing the offspring thinking you are doing something good for the hobby. You wont create something new and exciting, just a mutt fish that any responsible keeper would either cull, let spit in the tank to become food, or at the minimum never let them leave your house.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

No justification will be granted here for dumping hybrids irresponsibly into the hobby. Given that is what this has devolved to, this thread appears to have run it's course.


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