# Fungus. Not ich... help please!



## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

*** had a tank setup up for about a year now. I added fish to it about a week ago. I only had 2 fish in the tank before that, so I didn't quarantine. I've now had one (almost two) young juvies die with what I thought was Ich, but am now pretty sure is a fungus. It looks like it's burning through the skin in advanced stages and it's hairy almost. Though at first they both just had white spots in a contained area.

Events:

4 days ago I pulled a fish out (2 inch johanni) with white spots around his gill. I started him on ich treatment, but he was dead within the day. I assumed from the placement of the spots (suffocated).

2 days ago I saw another fish (2 inch Acei) looking a little sickly so I grabbed her out just in case. In my quarantine tank (10g cycled tank), she has been getting worse, even with Ich treatment. Once every three days I'm treating 1 tsp per the 5 gallons of water I have in teh 10g tank. Increased aeration etc. I'm two doses in using Wardley Ick Away. (Waterchange after 24 hours). But.. she's overturned, breathing heavy and it looks like she's being burned with the fungus. It's so disheartening.

My main 55g is day and a half into treatment:

tank with parameters: Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 30 and pH 7.8

I'm using the sites natural Ich treatment. I'm one day in to having slowly added all of the salt (2-3 tbsp per 5 gallons) and have slowly over a day pulled the temp up to 88 degrees. No other fish are flashing or showing any signs of stress whatsoever.

But now that I'm pretty sure this isn't Ich as I thought... did I do a huge no-no with the raising of temperature? I've done a bit of research on common fungi, and they say that lower temperatures cause them so I'm hoping I'm safe.

Where do I go from here? As of right now it seems like I've isolated all the sick fish, but I'm well aware of how undetected some diseases go. So I want to be 100% sure I'm not losing anymore of my fish. 

Is this Ich? Or what fungi?

Am I treating OK? Is there anything else I can do?

Ick away is supposedly for use on Fungus but Saprolegnia is the only one that I can see listed as being treatable with it. I don't think that's what this is. :-?


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

i'm trying to get pics of the acei, but my substrate in the quarantine tank is white. so with the flash it washes out the color, but with no flash you cant see the fine hairs that have now become her right side. :x


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

I'm hoping the VERY experienced mods will jump in here, but my suspicion is Columnaris. If so, all the ick or fungus treatments in the world won't help. I've treated Columnaris successfully (once), thanks to the great advice on this forum that was spot-on.

IF you have Columnaris in your tank, best silver-bullet treatment is Maracyn & Maracyn II _*used simultaneously*_. Do NOT raise the temp, as that aids the spread of the bacteria. But, if you've raised the temp, lower is SLOWLY.

These meds aren't cheap, but using them is the best treatment, IMHO, for Columnaris. I had a Red Bay Snook that was very close to death, and looked like at least 1/3 of his scales were gone, and looked like he was developing fin rot. The Maracyn cocktail turned him around when I didn't think it would be possible.

Good luck, and I hope the experts chime in here...


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

OOPS...double post...


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

thank you for the response. yes expensive plus i think the only pet store with those meds available are officially closed so it will have to wait until tomorrow morning.

is this something that i'm going to have to treat my 55g with? even if no one else is showing signs? or is this something that i'm going to have to give up just my acei for?


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

beginning to slowly lower temperature. (2 degrees every hour) or should i try fudging this a little quicker, due to it possibly spreading the bacteria?


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

2 degrees per hour is good, I think. Don't rush that.

IF it is Columnaris, and the fish that became ill were in the 55, my guess is that you'll have to treat it as well. That will be expensive. 

Since you can't get the meds tonight, I say lowering the temp is all you can do tonight. Hopefully, Robin or Cichlidaholic will jump in here. They saved my snook!

Edited to add: There's an article about Columnaris in the library:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... h_list.php


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

thanks for the link. i had researched the library for Ich thoroughly before beginning treatment. Didn't even think to look there for Columnaris :roll:

The acei passed away as I expected. Here are pictures. The first shows the fish in the tank with the "growth" and the second shows it out of the tank to show the scale deterioration.

God it looks so painful. I hope I cure this. So far still no other fish showing signs. 
It's really hard to see. But the fuzziness somewhat apparent on the left side of it's body (our right) is it.


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

I'm sorry about your acei...  It's hard to tell from the photos, but looks like there's "stuff" around the gills? What about on the body? Especially around the "saddleback"? That's where Columnaris attacked my snook. There were also little white tufts on his tail fin that looked like a fungus. He actually came to me with a used tank that I bought. He was in horrible shape...the "saddleback" area was missing huge amouts of scales. The previous owner had tried everything to treat the fish without success. It was the *combination* of the Maracyn & Maracyn II that finally knocked this out. That was one combo she hadn't tried.

Hopefully, if you can get the Maracyns today and start treatment, you'll attack this monster and not lose any more fish. Columnaris is horrible, and you're right - it does look painful.

Keep us posted...


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

Alright I did a 50-60% waterchange. I took out all rocks and foliage and cleaned them up good in dechlorinated tap water (NOT using my tank water as of now).

Upon opening the filter I realized a horrible problem. Last week I cleaned out my filter for the first time in a few months (Fluval 305) I added a pot scrubbing sponge (clean no chemicals new from the bag) to help clean the water instead of floss. Heard about someone doing this.

It had disinegrated into a red blob, rusting everything in my filter. I spent a good two hours scrubbing everything I could see. The water must have been horrible for the fish.

I scrubbed everything I could touch and took apart every piece and cleaned it, spray flushed it out.

I took all the media out but the clay rings. In preparation for medication. I still hesitate to say it's Columnaris because all the pictures I've been searching online don't look like it. And the symptoms are vaguely near it, but they are associated with many other problems.

Still waiting if anyone else thinks it might be something else.

As of now I've resalted the water, the temperature is at 76 again in case it IS a bacteria spread by heat.

It's salted at 4 tbsp for 5g.


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

WOW...you may have discovered your problem with the rust. That has to create extra minerals, hardness, and Lord knows what else.  

While it was a tragedy, I'd much rather have it be the rust/filtration issue than Columnaris. I'm still confused by the "stuff" on the Acei's gill area, though. My 1st and only experience (thank goodness) with Columnaris was actually diagnosed from symptoms alone. I wish I had taken pictures - that fish was in horrible condition. The missing scales alarmed me the most - it looked like someone had scraped the poor thing.

I'd keep up what you're doing and a watchful eye. No sense in hitting the tank with a strong (and expensive) antibiotics if you don't need them.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Hopefully, Robin or Cichlidaholic will chime in here soon?????


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

Yeah it was an embarrassing mistake. And I agree with the suspicions of my Acei's symptoms. IF it were just from (horrific  ) tank water than why didn't she get better when I moved her to my cycled hospital tank? Of course by then I think it was much too late. I'm keeping a paranoid eye out for the rest of the fish in the 55g. I went today and bought new carbon and sponges for the Fluval cause they were a bit shot. Thoroughly washed them, kept the ceramic circles though after rinsing.

So... so far so good. BUT again, keeping a paranoid watch. No flashing, no stress, just swimming. Thanks for keeping track of me 

I'm gonna keep the salt for another week, keep the stress reliever added in with each waterchange, and waterchange daily. Wish me luck, and thanks so much for your help.


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

Sounds good! I'm convinced that water changes are the _*best*_ thing for any fish ailment, and an exotic vet that also sees fish on occasion told me so! 

As for your acei, I think you are correct in that it may have progressed beyond the "helping" point. I had that happen to a rainbow shark once...I tried _everything,_ _*including baytril injections*_  , but could not save him.

Keep up the water changes, and that watchful eye. Glad to hear that the other fish seem to be doing well! :thumb: Keep us posted!


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

baytril injections? kudos to you!

alright. two fish, one that i've had for 2 years , are showing a bit of white rotting on their tail fins. instead of pulling them out and isolating, i'm thinking about dropping my tank level (considerably, like 50%?) and treating. 

how do you do the double treatment? just follow the directions on the boxes but at the same time? i'll start treatment tomorro


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## jamesd (Jul 26, 2006)

what about a salt dip? I had a columnaris-like illness crop up suddenly in a 75 gallon planted tank and it affected a rainbow cichlid and a Sepik rainbow. The Sepik had a white patchiness on side if the body, white clump on the tail, and another clump on the gill cover. I treated the tank with a 5 day combo of both Maracyn 1 & 2. It looked much better but it was still evident. After doing research I found that some hobbyists use salt dips. I mixed API's salt(comes in a half gallon milk container) and I added about 2/3 cup to 1 gallon to make a half reef-strength mixture, specific gravity about 13. I netted the rainbow and dipped the fish for about 2 minutes, closely watching for stress. I was surprised that the fish showed no ill effects from the dip. I returned the fish and after another day, it appears that the fish has completely recovered. Rift valley cichlids are even better suited to salt dips as they live in very hard environments anyways. I've read that you still want to do the maracyn treatment and that kills most of the bacteria in the water column, but not always completely clearing the affected fish due to absorption issues with the antibiotic. I would like to see if anyone else has had success with salt dips and see if they think it would help in this case?????


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

thanks for the reply James! i read about salt dips as well in the columnaris article. I'm really hoping it doesn't come to that for me. As of now I have two fish in my 55g that are showing signs, so I might be looking at a lot of dipping 

I'll definitely do this treatment of both medications for a full seven days (I've heard 7-10 on here, even though the box says 5) and then definitely salt dip my two outwardly affected fish if there seems to be any more trouble. But I REALLY hope the medications do the full trick.

Should I maybe salt-dip the two affected ones AND medicate the whole tank? I'm hesitant to do so just because the fish are already stressed with the huge water change/lowering. It'd be relaxing for everyone if I can just do one large treatment and then a 50% w/c halfway through the treatment. Sound good?


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## jamesd (Jul 26, 2006)

I would only dip the 2 fish.


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

How often should I be feeding, if at all? I was feeding once a day. Now it's been a whole day and I haven't fed. I have some anti-parasitic and anti-bacterial food coming in, but not for another week :roll: So for now... no feeding during treatment?

I'm thinking every other day.


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

Didn't mean to abandon you...stupid cable company buried a line up the street and cut MY phone line! :x No phone or internet until late today...

I treated my snook for a full 10 days. BUT, his was VERY advanced. I would treat for at least 7 days, just to be sure. I also kept the lights off most of the time during treatment so as not to stress any further.

Feeding? My poor guy was soooooooooo sick, he quit eating. I skipped feeding for about 3 days, then resumed. He started eating then, and made a full recovery.

I can't speak to the salt dips...never done one. As I said, my guy was soooooooo far gone, I had to hit him with the Maracyns, cross my fingers, and pray for recovery. And yes, I used them at the prescribed dosage, just both at the same time.

I also did 20% water changes about every-other-day.

Thanks for the kind words about my "somewhat heroic" efforts for my shark. Giving an injection to a slippery fish while trying to keep at least one of his gills underwater was a challenge - I'll say that much! I only wish I could have saved him, though. 

Keep us posted...hopefully, I'll be able to keep my phone and blasted DSL this time!


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

I was wondering where you went Huskies.  Bummer about the phone lines! I don't know what I'd do without an internet connection for a whole day. Probably drive around looking for an open WiFi. :lol:

7 days is all I can do with one of the meds. And I can't buy another 3 days it's just so expensive. Plus, the two fish who were showing were just starting to get one gray patch each (I was watching like a hawk), so I'm hoping I caught it early enough.

I'll do a w/c tomorrow and do every other day 20% as you did. I'll also resume feeding. It's been about two days since they've eaten. My lights have been off constantly. I tip-toe by the tank!

The injection experience sounds even more heroic now. I could never have that much dedication. And needles with a slippery fish? =D>

Thanks again for all the help.


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

Well, let's just say I got a LOT done yesterday AM with no internet! :lol:

Since you caught it early, I think the 7 day treatment will be fine. As I said, mine was very advanced...poor snook had probably lost 30% of his scales in the "saddleback" region, and I truly thought I would lose him. Soooooooo, if he can recover, I feel good that yours will too!

I feel your pain about the expense...luckily, I was able to quarantine him into a 20L for treatment, so I wasn't treating 55G.  Since you've dropped the water level, that will help with aeration. I also added another pump/air stone just to keep the aeration high.

About the injections - I'm no stranger to needles as I rehabilitate wildlife and do have to give subcutaneous fluids to baby squirrels sometimes. BUT...a FISH??? It was definitely scary - kept it up for 7 days, but I couldn't save him. 

I do think you've caught yours early, and will be looking for healthy progress reports! (Well, as long as the stupid cable company stays away from my phone line! :lol: )


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

Jbaby...just checking in to see how you and your fish are doing?????


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

thanks! I was going to update. Everything fine so far. I think the fish are getting a bit anxious with the lowered water level. I'm looking forward to that last water change and increasing the water level.

The two fish with the small patches have completely cleared up, but I'm still medicating. Also, no other fish are showing any signs of Columnaris! I'm getting really hopeful 

I have you to thank (not prematurely, crossing fingers  ). But, thank you!

I'll continue updating in the next two days.


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

AWESOME!!! I just LOVE good news!!! :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing:

I'm crossing all fingers for you as well. Woooooooooooo Hoooooooooooo! :fish: :fish: :fish: =D> =D> =D>


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## Jbaby (Jan 1, 2007)

Update: 

Day 8:
Did the last water change (50%) and filled the tank back up to full level. Both fish with patches have completely cleared up, no other fish showing any signs.

Today: 
Lights back on for the first time, feeding enthusiastically and everyone's getting along!

:thumb: Thank you Huskies, don't know what I'd have done without your guidance!


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

Thanks for the update, Jbaby! *Awesome news!!!* :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing:

I just love happy endings...happy to have been of help. This forum saved my snook, so I'm happy I was able to "pay it forward" for you! :thumb:


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