# Aggression Issues in All-Male Hap/Peacock Setup



## Benaiah (Aug 18, 2009)

I'm hoping that some of you with all male hap/peacock setups could help me with an aggression issue I'm having in my 135 gallon aquarium. It seems that even peaceful species turn aggressive in my tank. Here's the stocklist and their disposition ...

1M Ngara Flametail - removed after liplocking and relentlessly chasing every resident. Injured a German Red, who later died from his injuries/stress.

1M Phenochilus Tanzania - now the top fish after removing the Flametail. Chases other residents across the tank. Dominates the center of the aquarium and lets no other fish swim across without a chase.

2M Yellow Lab - the bigger one is ruthless towards the other, who has to remain hidden. Leaves other residents alone, however.

1 Jurupari Eartheater - chilled out, relaxed, and is rarely chased.

1 Aulonocara Maleri - the subject of the aggression by the Phenochilus, frequently found in a corner with muted colors.

I've also removed an Electra because the Phenochilus went after him constantly. The Ngara Flametail, who was the prime aggressor, is now in the same tank as the electra, but they are separated by a mesh barrier. So far, he's doing well in isolation.

The tank parameters look good IMO: 72"x18"x25" dimensions, 0 ppm ammonia and nitrite, 10 ppm nitrate, and 7.7 pH. Temperature averages 78 degrees F.

Is the chasing normal? Or do I have an unusually aggressive tank? It just surprises me that what I thought were placid species (yellow labs and the star sapphire?!?) are actually bullies.

Any ideas?

Thoughts I've had are:

-perhaps there's not enough fish - a few small fish with lots of open space
-perhaps the lighting is an issue - they chase less in the dark
-perhaps there needs to be more rock. I've got a 3D background with a few actual rocks - lots of open space.
-perhaps I'm just unlucky and got jerky fish


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## magic_cichlid (Jun 30, 2003)

I'm no expert so I hope others chime in. I think it could be a combo of 2 things...Too few fish and/or not enough rock. By adding more fish it spreads the aggression out. With only 6 fish it's pretty easy for 1 dominant fish to keep his focus on his target. If there are other fish in the way he may get distracted and allow the target fish to get away.

The added rockwork will allow places for fish to hide or even just get out of the aggressive fish's line of sight too. I like to hide when someone is mad at me....  Some aggression is normal, but when fish start dying there is a problem for sure.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

yeah man not nearly enough fish, that's why you're having problems, you'd have problems with 8 fish in a 75


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## cater20155 (Jun 16, 2008)

Try increasing your stock of males to 20+ and add new fish in groups to help reduce the aggression towards the new fish. How big are your current fish?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Agree that is far too few fish.


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## BigFish77 (Feb 1, 2009)

I agree with the problem being not enough stock. Please post your entire stock list, that would help alot. Also, do you have a pic of the tank. Probably adding more rock will only give the existing bully more territory to claim. I have an all male tank with peacock, haps, and labs and have had to add/remove multiple fish, its all part of getting the tank you want.

I have found out even though its not recommended to add multiple males of a given species if you can afford it. For instance, I added 4 male pheno's in my tank (180gallon). They all bullied each other, eventually I kept 2 that interacted well/tolerated one another and sold the others. Now they chase each other but no damage, now they are both speckled up beautifully and its been over a year and a half.










Also try to add multiple species if possible at once. This way you don't give the existing residents the chance to single out 1 group or type of species. Adding rock is always a plus, but I have found out that in the long run less rock-work is better for my tank. In my tank the haps prefer the open water while I use 2 smaller rock piles with pvc for my labs, peacocks, and cleaning crew. I have used broken clay pots, but then the larger haps want to get tough and claim them. Good-luck you can PM or post everyone here is willing to help. Sorry about the flash.


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## jaybuc (Dec 15, 2005)

magic_cichlid said:


> I'm no expert so I hope others chime in. I think it could be a combo of 2 things...Too few fish and/or not enough rock. By adding more fish it spreads the aggression out. With only 6 fish it's pretty easy for 1 dominant fish to keep his focus on his target. If there are other fish in the way he may get distracted and allow the target fish to get away.
> 
> The added rockwork will allow places for fish to hide or even just get out of the aggressive fish's line of sight too. I like to hide when someone is mad at me....  Some aggression is normal, but when fish start dying there is a problem for sure.


Agree...also try to keep fish that look different from one another.


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## Benaiah (Aug 18, 2009)

Thanks for your help. The consensus seems to be that I have too few fish. About how many haps/peacocks should I aim for in my tank (135 gallon, 6 ft) to avoid this issue?

The current fish are all about the same size - about 4-5" each. And yes, there's only about 6 total now in the main tank (i.e, that's the complete stocklist). Here's the picture of the current setup - you can see what I mean about having just a few rocks.










I also have a 55 gallon tank that is housing the following. Strangely, they're all getting along fine...

6 - 2" unsexed red empresses (juvies)
3 - 2" unsexed protomelas liuli (juvies)
1 - 5" male electra (removed earlier)
1 - 4" male ngara flametail (discussed in OP)
1 - 3" male yellow lab

Do you think that adding the inhabitants of the juvenile tank to the main tank will help? There's a lot of them and I could add them right away. They're too big to get eaten and maybe it will provide enough activity to lessen the aggression in the main tank? My plan is to sell off the females once they can be sexed.

Or should I purchase more male fish of the same age/size range?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I have no issues dumping your entire 55 gallon stock into the bigger tank... it is a good start. I would aim for somewhere in the mid-twenties to maybe 30 for final stocking. If you are going to go purchase more fish, perhaps delay adding the 55 gallon stock, until you get some new fish, and add them all at once. Watch the water conditions, so that you don't get a mini-cycle. Do a water change a day after adding, and then two days later, just in case.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Thoroughly agree -- more fish and more fish that don't look like each other. If you're having trouble finding peacocks and haps that don't look similar, you could do a nice group of labs and/or p. acei (genders not important). Agree that you need to add in groups of 3-5 to avoid newcomers getting beaten up. I often found that adding fish slightly smaller than the existing tank inhabitants worked well in that they could hide in spots the larger fish could not. It would also be good to move rocks around (and add if necessary) just before adding additions.

Your tank is large enough for quite a few larger haps. I'd not add the ones you haven't sexed yet in your 55, but Red Empress generally is good, as are Taiwan Reefs (regular and albino) , borleyi and Otopharnyx lithobates.

I've had great success with Dr. Tim's to avoid mini cycles when adding significant amounts of new fish. I know not everyone believe in it, but I do.

Good luck.

BTW, my experience with male peacock/hap tanks is that species don't always read their descriptions. I've had a mellow yellow jake, for instance. But when one fish is hyper aggressive, he gets removed even if he's gorgeous.


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## magic_cichlid (Jun 30, 2003)

Yep, follow Fogelhund's advice. After seeing your tank, the rockwork is totally fine. You just need more fish, and adding all of the ones that are in the 55 is a good idea.


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## Bedrocker (Feb 25, 2009)

Sorry to hijack, but I was recently in a similar situation as Benaiah.... I have a 180 all male peacock tank and started with less than 10 fish, worried about having too many fish once they grew out. Most were small, and the biggest fish seemed to dominate. I've been adding a few at a time and am up to ~20 total fish...still, mostly 2-4" individuals, and aggression has gone down.

My question, is that as all these fish grow, 30 big fish will be a lot different than 30 small fish. Do people remove species as the fish grow? i count ~12 fish in Bigfish77's photos (nice tank, btw), of which 5 are large.... this doesn't seem to meet the "20-30 fish" rule for this tank size. Did you have more fish when these guys were smaller?


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## BigFish77 (Feb 1, 2009)

I have about 6 large haps including: 2 Rostratus, 2 Pheno, 1 Spinolotus, 1 Borelyi and I then have some smaller species including 1 OB peacock, 1 Dragonblood, 1 Mloto, 2 Ahli, and 3 Yellow labs. In my case, I only have a 5 foot 180 so I picked out only a few larger species since the tank is not 6 foot. I have stocked more fish in this tank, but certain fish just have not done well especially now that my rostratus, spinolotus and pheno are so large. An all-male tank is a challenge both economically and mentally by testing your patience. Since my haps are so large and all the fish have been together for sometime its a difficult to add anybody new. I also fear now adding new stock and possibly introducing some kind of disease. Hope that helps.


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

Make sure when you add new fish that you add quite a few, not just one. As a few others stated, make sure the fish do not look similar. The ngara and german red look similar enough that they will go at it. You are on the right track, just add a few more fish and add them all at once. Good luck


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