# African cichlid noob stocking a 20 long. Please help?



## Lymore (Dec 15, 2009)

Alright, so I'm getting a 20 long for Christmas, and I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it. I see the fantastic colors that some African cichlids have and they are just gorgeous. Also, I've heard of some that live in shells? Tanganyikan shell Dwelling cichlids or something like that, that sounds so fascinating.

I'm not experienced with African cichlids, so I was wondering what kinds of stocking options would I have if I decided on African cichlids? 
I usually do South American biotopes, and keep South American cichlids, and I absolutely love them, but I was thinking of doing something new.

I'm a biotope kind of person, I just love something about biotopes. But I'm open to other ideas as well.

Also, is it true that African cichlids and plants don't mix?


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

It would be a perfect tank for Tanganyikan shell-dwellers ("shellies") and they are fun to watch. You could probably tuck a pair of dwarf Julidochromis species in there too, with one side being rockwork for them, and the other side open sand for shellies. I think you can keep plants with both of these species as long as they can be in harder water.

Here are some suggestions for a 20-gallon long:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_20g.php

Here is a list of many shellies, but some that would be good are L. multifasciatus ("multis"), L. caudopunctatus, L. brevis, L. ocellatus, and L. stappersi. Check out their profiles.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14

The dwarf Julie species are J. transcriptus, J. ornatus, and J. dickfeldi. You can find their profiles on this page. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=11

J. transcriptus are very neat looking
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2149

Although cichlids from Lake Malawi have brighter colors, that tank is too small for them. But many of us love the Lake Tanganyikan fish because of the huge diversity of forms, and because they have lots of interesting behaviors to watch.

The library section contains a lot of great articles on keeping African cichlids:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/


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## Lymore (Dec 15, 2009)

Wow thank you so much for the information!

Are there other fish I can keep with them to make a community tank? Or can you not do that with african cichlids?


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Well you could keep Metriaclima lanisticola in a 20 gallon long. They're an interesting fish from Malawi, but not really that attractive. You could also try a Pseudocrenilabrus species. Or, there are many west African fish that will do well in a tank that size such as the Pelvicachromis species, which may mix a little better with other fish.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

There aren't a lot of "community" species apart from the cichlids themselves, and what is limiting in your situation is tank size. The African red-eyed tetra _Arnoldichthys spiloptera_ can be kept with some species. I have never had them, but I love tetras and would like to try them. http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=redeyedcharacin If you want a "biotope," you would generally stick to fish from one lake. There just aren't small schooling fish like there are in South America, so most of us think of a "community" as a community of cichlids, and we try to choose species from different habitats so that they are not in competition for space. There are rock-dwellers like Julidochromis and Altolamprologus and the gobies, shell-dwellers, sand-dwellers (like Xenotilapia spp.), and open water species (like Cyprichromis). But the size and territory requirements of many of these fish are too large for a 20-gallon.

The Rift Lake cichlids are like saltwater fish in that they need very stable water conditions, unlike cichlids from rivers and smaller systems where water conditions change with flow and seasons. It is much harder to maintain super stable conditions in a small tank. But some of the shell-dwellers and Julidochromis species like L. multifasciatus and J. transcriptus will raise young and live with them.

Do you know the pH and hardness of your tap water? It gets harder to maintain stable conditions when your water needs to be amended to be suitable for these fish. It's always easier to maintain species that will thrive in the water you have. So if it is really hard, the lake species are ideal, but if it is softer and has lower pH, the West African species are more suitable.

There are some beautiful West African dwarf cichlids like Darkside mentions, and they do not require the hard water and higher pH of the lake species. Look at the genus Pelvicachromis, Parananochromis, and Anomalochromis.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=17
There seem to be more options in terms of tetras than in the lakes. Here are African tetras:
http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/tetr1.htm
and barbs:
http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/karp1.htm

Do you have a local fish store that carries African cichlids? I know I live in an area where there is no selection at all, so I would have to drive a few hours or get them shipped to me. I don't know what your financial or equipment situation is, but there are a lot of very cheap tanks on craigslist right now. You could watch for a few weeks for any good deals. :fish:

--Angela


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## XtremeRevolution (Nov 27, 2009)

Very true on the craigslist deals. I picked up my 75 with a hood, lamp, 2 filters, 3 spare bulbs, and a 300W heater for $100 cash.

I've seen 55 gallon tanks with stands, a filter, a heater, hood, and lamp go for $50 on craigslist.

A while back I even saw a 100 gallon sell for $80. What a steal.


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## Lymore (Dec 15, 2009)

I only have enough room in my apartment for a 20 gallon, also, I'm on a bit of a budget. I'm in Central Florida, so the water is hard. I don't know the pH though. But using RO is a possibility.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

Can't you sleep in the cabinet of a big tank? 
hard is good for African cichlids from the lakes.


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## Lymore (Dec 15, 2009)

I found a page with stocking ideas for a 20 long on this site.

I like this grouping the best:

â€¢ Julidochromis regani - 1 pair 
â€¢ Neolamprologus leleupi - 1 pair 
â€¢ 'Lamprologus' occelatus - 1 trio

We looked at craigslist, and didn't find much for 20 gals, but 29 gals are quite abundant, and good prices are a plus too. So we are getting a 29.


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## XtremeRevolution (Nov 27, 2009)

Lymore said:


> I found a page with stocking ideas for a 20 long on this site.
> 
> I like this grouping the best:
> 
> ...


Better than a 20, but still pushing it for mbuna.

I think the shellies will work very well for you though.


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## Lymore (Dec 15, 2009)

I found a 35 gal + cabinet stand for $75 on CL =]

Could I do much more with that?


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

What's the greatest length x width you can fit in your apartment?

Generally speaking you need to have 4' to house multiple species. I have a 3' tank but only have single species dwarf mbuna - Ps. saulosi.

But don't think a smaller tank is a bad thing - I like my 15 gallon shellie tank and 29 gallon Bolivian Ram (both cichlids) every bit as much as my mbuna tank!

kevin


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## XtremeRevolution (Nov 27, 2009)

Lymore said:


> I found a 35 gal + cabinet stand for $75 on CL =]
> 
> Could I do much more with that?


You could definitely do better than a 20 gallon, but if you plan on keeping mbuna, you'll eventually need a bigger tank. The general rule as far as I've heard is 1 gallon per inch of fish.

Then again, you could also go with shellies and that rule doesn't apply.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

*XtremeRevolution*

that rule is bogus and please don't spread it any further, i think i've seen you say it a few times even after people have said differently

by your reasoning an oscar can fit in a 15 gallon tank, please explain how?

if anyone ever tells you one inch of fish per gallon (unless talking about tropicals which i still consider iffy) please do not listen to them

a better rule to follow in my experience is have a tank 6-8 times longer than the largest fish will grow as an adult, hence why a 48" tank is what a lot of people will suggest for a large number of cichlids that grow around 4-6inches

gallonage really has nothing to do with it, stocking a 29 is about the same as stocking a 20 long, they have the same footprint


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## XtremeRevolution (Nov 27, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> *XtremeRevolution*
> 
> that rule is bogus and please don't spread it any further, i think i've seen you say it a few times even after people have said differently
> 
> ...


Obviously there's more to the "1 inch of fish per gallon" and one would be stupid to put an Oscar into a 15 gallon tank as you pointed out. The logic I suggested is in regard to stocking a tank (hence the thread title). Your logic is in regard to tank size. You suggest a tank size for someone who doesn't have one and wishes to purchase one. I suggest a number of fish based on the tank size one already owns, as not everyone has access to 48" tanks.

Obviously it would be stupid to put an oscar into a 15 gallon tank. I didn't think anyone would take my "general rule of thumb" so literally. A 29 gallon tank would support 5 6" cichlids based on my logic.

I've kept 6 3" mbuna in a 20 gallon before without absolutely no issues for a few months. Obviously it was a temporary situation, but it worked perfectly well.

A "general rule" as I specifically stated it, is just that; general. For the most part, I've found that the rule applies quite well to tanks greater than 20 gallons. For example, I have a 75 gallon tank, which would allow me 15 full size mbuna. Please explain to me how this is an unreasonable amount of fish given the size of the tank.


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## webgirl74 (Jan 30, 2009)

XtremeRevolution said:


> cjacob316 said:
> 
> 
> > *XtremeRevolution*
> ...


I wouldn't even suggest keeping any cichlid that reach 6" in a 29 gallon tank. Can they survive? Sure, but it's certainly not ideal in terms of swimming space and the stress level would probably be pretty high with aggressive species like Mbuna. I have a 55 with a 4' length and the mods and other experienced hobbyists on here discouraged me from keeping fish of that size even in my tank.

Lymore, if you are getting a 29 gallon or something with at least a 3' length, I think you could do a colony of dwarf Africans like Demasoni or Saulosi, if you want color. There are also some nice colorful SA cichlids in the Apisto family that you could do in a smaller tank and I have kept them myself in a 36 gallon successfully (3' length). You have some nice species suggested with the Tangs in your earlier post, although I've heard from some people that Leleupi can be nasty to other fish if they are spawning. You could also do a species only tank of Brichardi in a smaller tank, but you would want to keep them by themselves as they will kill or stress other fish to death. A lot of people on here keep them though and they apparently spawn like rabbits!


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Here are some users who have African 20 gallon (some long, some not) tanks:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/inde ... er&u=45440
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/inde ... er&u=53827
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/inde ... er&u=35561
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/inde ... er&u=24747
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/inde ... er&u=21258
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/inde ... er&u=11709

Don't do this:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/inde ... er&u=33269

kevin


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

> You could definitely do better than a 20 gallon, but if you plan on keeping mbuna, you'll eventually need a bigger tank. The general rule as far as I've heard is 1 gallon per inch of fish.


when you say this, you're implying that you think 4-5 peacocks can fit in this tank, 4-5 Melanochromis auratus, do you know what would happen if you put 4-5 auratus in that tank? you never specified that it depends on tank size which is where your logic goes to ****

there are only really two general rules of thumb
1) one inch of fish per gallon rule is bull
2) regular water changes are a must

you are suggesting things based on temporary setups you have had, there are a few moderators on this site that say the tank should be set up for over a year before it can be used as a proper example, this guy is asking for a permanant setup, so don't talk about the mbuna you had in a 20 for a few months, that does not apply to any real situation, i have 20 sp 44's in a 10 gallon right now, but i would never suggest it to anyone, because it will not work in the long run

btw


> without absolutely no issues for a few months


that's a double negative, it means you did have problems

edit: if you look at my tanks, i have a 20 long and a 29 gallon, both tanganyikan tanks, i love tanganyikan partly for the fact that a lot of them can be kept in smaller tanks all around my house and no worries, if you want mbuna, i'd say find something around 36 inches in length and do 4-5 cyno's, 1m/3-4f with a good filter

if you can swing a 4 footer, you options are much greater


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## TangTango (Dec 11, 2009)

With a 29 over a 20L your only get'n extra height.
Extra height doesn't help much when it comes to cichlids, especially mbunas.
You can take a tank that is one foot wide and four feet tall and ya would only be able to put
a few cichlids in it, where if the tank was four feet long and one foot tall, you'd 
be able to put much more cichlids in it. The gal per inch rule just doesn't fly with me.
It all depends on the footprint of the tank.

With a 29 or 20L the only difference is with the 29 ya have 9 extra gallons of water
to help with the stability of the water conditions.


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## Lymore (Dec 15, 2009)

Well, I usually do S American cichlid tanks, I LOVE being able to keep lots of plants. So, I'm kind of going to miss the plants.

I wanted some africans that I would be able to have some plants with, I would have some vals, I see that plant in a lot of cichlid tanks. Also, of course, lots of rocks for the cichlids, and a sandy substrate.

I know the inch of fish per gallon doesn't really apply, even for tropical fish. My parent kept fish since before I was born, so I grew up with fish. I'm not a total noob, I'm just a noob to africans.

Soo, this grouping isn't a good idea?

â€¢ Julidochromis regani - 1 pair 
â€¢ Neolamprologus leleupi - 1 pair 
â€¢ 'Lamprologus' occelatus - 1 trio

I've been looking at these pages for ideas:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_20g.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_29g.php


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Lymore said:


> Well, I usually do S American cichlid tanks, I LOVE being able to keep lots of plants. So, I'm kind of going to miss the plants.
> 
> I wanted some africans that I would be able to have some plants with, I would have some vals, I see that plant in a lot of cichlid tanks. Also, of course, lots of rocks for the cichlids, and a sandy substrate.


If you want to stay planted, what about some West African cichlids?
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1350
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=2529
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1348
These links _may_ be bad ideas. I know *nothing* about West Africans and the tanks sizes they require. So if any of them are of interest to you, be sure to ask here:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=11


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## Lymore (Dec 15, 2009)

Well, I don't want to stay totally planted, just some vals in the background, which I've heard is okay with some of the rift lake cichlids. Just to add a bit of greenery


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

A lot of people on the forum say that N. leleupi is not a good match with shellies because of their aggression.

With a small tank, I would stick to one of the three dwarf species of Julidochromis: J. ornatus, J. dickfeldi, or J. transcriptus. Many of these grow to 3" as adults, and would be much better scaled to a small tank than the 4-5" species like J. regani.


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## Lymore (Dec 15, 2009)

How about this (its a stocking idea from the same page):

â€¢ Alto. sp. "Compressiceps Shell"- 1 pair 
â€¢ 'Lamprologus' caudopunctatus - 1 pair 
â€¢ 'Lamprologus' similis - 1 trio

I don't really like the Compressiceps, is there something else that I could get instead of that one, that would still get along with the others?


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