# What Haps will not Crossbreed?



## crispyythree (Oct 20, 2011)

If I wanted to have a tank with haps and peacocks, and mixed genders what would it be? My current setup is 
3 Yellow Sunshine 1m/2f 
5 Blue Ahli 2m/3f 
3 Copadichromis Borleyi (Kadango) 1m/2f 
3 Ruby Red Peacocks. 1m/2f

But i have been told that it isnt gonna work. So what should i do? get rid of the females and have an all male tank? or get haps and peacocks that wont crossbreed?


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Get rid of the females and go for an all male tank.

If you want mixed genders (and want to sell the fry), it should be a single species tank. I think someone already mentioned that....


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## GVSailor (Aug 17, 2010)

What size is your tank?

I have always been told that if the fish are in a different genus, and look different then you should be safe. The article on here about cichlid compatibility says the same thing. I would have only one type of peacock, either the sunshine, or the ruby. Depending on your tank size you could add a placidiochromis or a protomelas species into the mix.


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## crispyythree (Oct 20, 2011)

I have a 75 gallon tank. upgrading to a 120 i believe. GVSailor, thats what i thought. but DJRansom said they would crossbreed either way. So i guess i have to just have an all male tank. But i really want fry so i dont have to buy again... OR if i have to. ill just buy a juvie male and grow him out so he can breed and keep the gene pool pure w/o inbreeding/crossbreeding.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Any and all Haps and Peacocks "could" crossbreed.

There are certain combinations that are more likely to crossbreed, for whatever reasons.

Most Aulonocara are highly probable to crossbreed with other Aulonocara, no matter what ratios you keep, or how many females you have.

Scieanochromis fryeri, will breed with Aulonocara females... if you have only a few females, or a 4ft tank. I have kept fryeri and Aulonocara together successfully, but in a 6ft tank, and with at least six females of the fryeri.

Keeping mixed Haps/Peacocks in breeding tanks is easy enough, but you have to ensure that the fry look different enough, that if there was a hybridization, you would be able to tell fairly easily. Then you must be willing to get rid of all of the fry, and split those groups up.


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## crispyythree (Oct 20, 2011)

So its more of a matter of knowing what a hybrid looks like correct? I have to be able to know what looks like a regular fry and a hybrid fry. hmm... I think thats possible. So I guess my setup is ok?


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

crispyythree said:


> So its more of a matter of knowing what a hybrid looks like correct? I have to be able to know what looks like a regular fry and a hybrid fry. hmm... I think thats possible. So I guess my setup is ok?


I think you would have a hard time telling the difference between the Sunshine and Ruby Red fry, or hybrids of the two. Fryeri fry look pretty similar to Aulonocara fry as well, and fryeri X aulonocara fry look VERY similar to pure fry from either species.

Just add a few synodontis catfish and let the females spit in the tank, then you won't have to worry about which fry are hybrid. Then later you can set up another tank to rotate one species at a time into to breed unquestionably pure fry for you.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

crispyythree said:


> So its more of a matter of knowing what a hybrid looks like correct? I have to be able to know what looks like a regular fry and a hybrid fry. hmm... I think thats possible. So I guess my setup is ok?


Nope, you won't know with the two Aulonocara, and often fryeri x Aulonocara hybrid fry can look like Aulonocara juveniles.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

crispyythree said:


> So its more of a matter of knowing what a hybrid looks like correct?


A hybrid can look exactly like either parent. And fryeri will hybridize with peacocks.

The borleyi is too big for a 48" tank.

What about Protomelas marginatus (females and fry have a stripe)? They would look completely different than peacock females and fry. Is this the type of thing you are suggesting Fogelhund?


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## crispyythree (Oct 20, 2011)

[/quote] Then later you can set up another tank to rotate one species at a time into to breed unquestionably pure fry for you.[/quote]

Is that what most people do? I separate a group and have them breed so i know that theres no crossbreeding? hmm. thats interesting. thats what fogelhund suggested as well. Would it be possible to have a bunch of female only tanks of the species and then when i want the male to breed i take him out of the all male tank and have them breed? and one thing im wondering is are the species you guys have mentioned available? (e.g. Protomelas marginatus or protomelas species) I doubt theres any LFS here that has those kind of stuff.


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## crispyythree (Oct 20, 2011)

On another note. If I went to an all male tank then they wouldnt show their true colors cuz there are no females to impress right?


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

No, most males will show their colors, even in the absence of females. Females and breeding can intensify those colors but most color up regardless. If the males were drab, there would be no point in anyone keeping an all male tank.

Protomelas sp. are available through most online vendors.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Keeping separate female only tanks for each species is feasible if you've got the space, then you could have an all-male tank and introduce the male to his females when you want them to breed. It's been done before, but not by me, so I don't know exactly how it would work. I imagine you would need to be patient when introducing the male and keep a close eye on him to make sure he doesn't go crazy and beat up the girls. It sounds like the only sure way to eliminate the risk of hybridizations, though.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

crispyythree said:


> Is that what most people do?.


No. The majority of people I read about here or talk to in local fish organizations do not save fry from their show tank and if they want to collect fry they have a bunch of species tanks. In your scenario, you could have one male in the show tank and one male in the species tank. No rotating necessary.

Or they combine species in their tank that have a very small risk of cross breeding, like a hap (not fryeri), a peacock and a mbuna.



crispyythree said:


> are the species you guys have mentioned available? (e.g. Protomelas marginatus or protomelas species) I doubt theres any LFS here that has those kind of stuff.


Yes, online. You will find LFS have a very limited selection of cichlids anyway. I just used marginatus because of the obvious stripe, but there are many other options.


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## crispyythree (Oct 20, 2011)

I see all this is really interesting and has given me an idea of what I want to do. Ill be looking into these options and figuring out whats best for my space and budget. Thanks for the advice!


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## mokujin22 (Jan 19, 2010)

For a 4' tank (4'x18" footprint), here's some suggestions that would work together. Pick three.

-1 group peacocks -or- S. fryeri
-1 group smaller Placidochromis (not johnstoni or milomo)
-1 group Otopharynx (lithobates, tetrastigma, tetraspilus)
-1 group smallest Protomelas (super red empress, virginatus, Taiwan Reef) - trio
-1 group blue Copadichromis (not borleyi)

In my experience, this will minimize the chances of interbreeding, but not eliminate it. Watch your fish. Note which males are on top of the food chain and generally speaking, do not save fry unless you witness the fish breeding.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

mokujin22 said:


> -1 group smallest Protomelas (super red empress.


You don't find the 9" empress too big for a 48" tank? I had an 8" borleyi in there and he seemed way too big.


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## mokujin22 (Jan 19, 2010)

I have had some big wild-type red empress as well. From what I've seen, the line-bred "super red empress" rarely exceed 7" though. Not sure why.

Could be wrong though. :-?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

mokujin22 said:


> I have had some big wild-type red empress as well. From what I've seen, the line-bred "super red empress" rarely exceed 7" though. Not sure why.
> 
> Could be wrong though. :-?


Seems to be my experience too. They also aren't near as big bodied either.


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## crispyythree (Oct 20, 2011)

Actually my borleyi is barely hitting 7". Hes probably the biggest. The others are about 6"-4". But Mokujin thanks for the setup. Im still not sure what to get but im lookin at the species. Im thinking of just trading in some of the fish for my local lfs store credit. We'll have to see. Besides that im really liking the Otopharnyx lithobates from Zimbabwe Rock. and would a Protomelas spilonotus Be too big? im assuming it would. But someone has those that i know about. In addition. i should only have one male of these species right?


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## mokujin22 (Jan 19, 2010)

A group of spilonotus (Mara Rocks or Tanzanian) would need a 125 or 180 when fully grown. They're the largest of the Protomelas.

You may be able to get away with more than one male of some of the smaller speices, so long as you have a decent amount of females. In a 4' tank though, it will be hit-or-miss.


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## crispyythree (Oct 20, 2011)

Well I am upgrading. Hopfully i can get those in a later time. what would be a smaller species? The taiwan reef seem to look like the borleyi. But Is there anything that looks a bit diff.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Protomelas marginatus, matures at 17cm (under 7").


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## crispyythree (Oct 20, 2011)

After much Deliberation i've decided to have an all male tank. over the past couple of days I noticed all the fish in one corner except my yellow sunshine. I guess he's established himself as the boss. Soo I feel that I need to take out the females and stick them in another tank. I am now going to house the females in a 40 gallon. But i dont know what im going to do with them. I guess I'll keep them. and if i want them to breed. i'll isolate a species in my 29 gallon. Thanks for all the help.


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