# Overstocking Question



## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

Quick question,
Is there a way to do an Mbuna tank without overstocking it?

I have some knowledge, but making some plans for a 90 gallon, and not sure if I want to buy a second canister + so many fish to overstock.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The proper level of overstocking for 48x18 would be 20 fish for mixed gender. How many do you want to stock?

No need or 2 canisters as long as you have 1 filter that can do 8X GPH.


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

I was thinking between 6 and 12

the canister is a Rena XP3 (350 gph)


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you are an experienced fish keeper and have extra tanks, you could do all-male haps and peacocks and then 12 would work. Not cost efficient though, because usually you buy adult males at $30 to $50 per fish.

Why not choose something that does not need to have aggression managed by overstocking?

A dozen yellow labs might be worth trying.


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

Thanks for those suggestions. I like Yellow Labs, but was hoping to get a bit more color variety in the tank. I'm also trying to keep this from being really expensive. 
So I'm thinking of adding two sponge filters, one as a prefilter for the Rena XP3, and a second one with a powerhead to move some water at the surface. Hopefully that would allow me to overstock. Has anyone had success with something like that?


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

marten said:


> Thanks for those suggestions. I like Yellow Labs, but was hoping to get a bit more color variety in the tank. I'm also trying to keep this from being really expensive.
> So I'm thinking of adding two sponge filters, one as a prefilter for the Rena XP3, and a second one with a powerhead to move some water at the surface. Hopefully that would allow me to overstock. Has anyone had success with something like that?


You can always do weekly water changes. Bioload depends on the size of the fish. Mbuna tanks do best when you have a crowd, keeps it more social and hopefully having one fish make everyone else hide.

What Mbuna do you want?


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

noki said:


> You can always do weekly water changes. Bioload depends on the size of the fish. Mbuna tanks do best when you have a crowd, keeps it more social and hopefully having one fish make everyone else hide.
> 
> What Mbuna do you want?


A couple of my favorites are Msobo and Purple Acei. But I'm still sorting out what i can get locally, and what can work together.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

I run all my tanks with filters that do 2 to 4x turnover believing in Dr Paul liouselle who say that any water contact greater then that will not allow sufficient contact with bio media reducing proper filtration. Having said that I compensate for increased flow rate by running MJ's with attached sponges. Easy to clean during weekly water changes and great for surface agitation and you can use them to clean in rocks before wc.


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

Cyphound said:


> I run all my tanks with filters that do 2 to 4x turnover believing in Dr Paul liouselle who say that any water contact greater then that will not allow sufficient contact with bio media reducing proper filtration. Having said that I compensate for increased flow rate by running MJ's with attached sponges. Easy to clean during weekly water changes and great for surface agitation and you can use them to clean in rocks before wc.


So my filtration idea isn't totally crazy


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Do you want to overstock or understock?

Do you want to add filters or avoid adding filters?


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

DJRansome said:


> Do you want to overstock or understock?
> 
> Do you want to add filters or avoid adding filters?


I'd like to know how to understock, if that's possible with a variety of colors. 
A variety of colors and having a few large fish 6-7" are the main thing i want, so I'm willing to add more filtration if i need to overstock to get that.

Sorry, the title of this thread doesn't make a lot sense this far into the discussion.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

marten said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> > Do you want to overstock or understock?
> ...


Really doesn't make much sense anyway. Hard to have variety and a small amount, especially with Mbuna. You could buy some 7 Aulonocara males and hope they don't fight too much, but there is no guarantee and that might be expensive... there never is any guarantee with cichlids, that is what makes them more interesting + frustrating.

15 mbuna is not crazy overstocking. Usually people want way too many fish because there are literally too many cichlids to choose from.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What if you go to another continent? Some of the SA or CA are larger, work better in a smaller tank, and don't need large groups to manage aggression.

Check out the cookie cutter tanks.


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

Thanks for your help. I'll check out the cookie cutter lists, that should be helpful with whatever i end up deciding.


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## Bluepitbullzzz (Dec 19, 2017)

How to understock mbuna... very simple

Buy 10-12 juvies of 2 different species you like that are different from each other in appearance... preferably 2 different genus

Weed out extra males as they pop up then you keep 1-2 males of each species and all of the females... good luck


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

marten said:


> Quick question,
> Is there a way to do an Mbuna tank without overstocking it?
> 
> I have some knowledge, but making some plans for a 90 gallon, and not sure if I want to buy a second canister + so many fish to overstock.


All male or male/female mix?


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

Thanks for your help guys,
I've looked through the cookie cutter lists and my plan at this point is this:

-Finish setting up the tank and get a cycle going for a few weeks.
-Introduce some deep water Haps and let them grow for a few months. 
-Introduce a group of Yellow Labs
-Introduce a group of Purple Acei

If i introduce them over a period of time, I can upgrade the filtering if i need to, and it won't be as expensive to get it started. Does that make sense? Assuming I buy juveniles, how much time would I have before they all need to be in there? Also what should the M:F ratios be for those groups of fish?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

1m:4f of each will work and keep your numbers low. You can add groups once a month or once a year or however often you want.

If you have less than 12 fish at the beginning, they may hide a lot.


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

DJRansome said:


> 1m:4f of each will work and keep your numbers low. You can add groups once a month or once a year or however often you want.
> 
> If you have less than 12 fish at the beginning, they may hide a lot.


Excellent!


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

I'm thinking about Placidochromis sp. "Phenochilus Tanzania" instead of the Deep Water Haps, to keep together with the Yellow Labs and Purple Acei. Would those be interchangeable?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

This is a `10 inch fish and timid. Not interchangeable.


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## Cich Guy (Feb 19, 2018)

Hi guys, I have 24 mixed cichlids in my 90, mbunas, peacocks and haps. The largest fish is 6" and the smallest Labidochromis caeruleus is about 2".
They all get along great, keeping in mind that fish are like people, all have different characters. I have eliminated the overly agressive ones over time and now have a balance. 
They will chase each other occasionally but no damage, just intimidation so it can be done. One thing though, use 2 canister filters, offsetting the cleaning of each, it will make a big difference.
I rubn a Marineland C360 and a Penn-Pax Cascade 1000, all bio, no chemical filtration EVER except for medicine removal. Good luck with you 90!


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

Cich Guy said:


> Hi guys, I have 24 mixed cichlids in my 90, mbunas, peacocks and haps. The largest fish is 6" and the smallest Labidochromis caeruleus is about 2".
> They all get along great, keeping in mind that fish are like people, all have different characters. I have eliminated the overly agressive ones over time and now have a balance.
> They will chase each other occasionally but no damage, just intimidation so it can be done. One thing though, use 2 canister filters, offsetting the cleaning of each, it will make a big difference.
> I rubn a Marineland C360 and a Penn-Pax Cascade 1000, all bio, no chemical filtration EVER except for medicine removal. Good luck with you 90!


That sounds like a success. I'm looking forward to getting some cichlids into my 90, it's still cycling right now, but soon


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

My tank finished cycling about two weeks ago, and i bought my first batch of fish. I bought 9 juvenile Placidochromis Electra "Deep water haps", and they've been settling in for the past 5 days. They are about 1.5 inches. There's already a fair amount of aggression, chasing, and one torn fin, which was healed the next day.

I've been feeding them once per day, less than 1/8 tsp of North Fin. I notice they hoard the pellets as soon as they hit the floor, and then find a quiet spot to chew the pellets. After that the fights break out until i turn the lights off which seems to help.

I'm wondering if this is par for the course, or if i should try make some adjustments already. As mentioned earlier in this discussion, I'm planning to end up with Deep Water Haps, Yellow Labs and Purple Acei, each with 1:4 ratio.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Add the rest of the fish to reduce the aggression.


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## Cyphro (Mar 23, 2018)

You only have to overstock when you have crazy aggressive fish and/or a small tank.

I had a 40 gallon tank with a few yellow labs, a few rusties, and a few auratus and it was a completely peaceful tank. The auratus can be crazy fighters in many circumstances but with just a couple they did not do much just occasional tussles with each other, while the rusties just swam around willy nilly and the yellow labs each defended some tiny section of the tank no one else cared about.


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## marten (Jan 23, 2018)

An update on my tank. I found some quality Yellow Labs (about 2.5 inches) and added 8 to the mix. Aggression sorted itself out and the "female" Deep water haps (1.5 inches) look much more relaxed now. It took a few days for the pecking order to sort out, and the one hap with a torn fin is healing up (he thought he was bigger than the labs). Funny enough the Placidochromis are the most aggressive in the tank, and not so "placid".

The haps looked skinny when i got them, and after 2 and 1/2 weeks some still have concave bellies. I'm hoping that good water quality and good food will sort that out.


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