# Just purchased a Emperor 400 any advise?



## ssondubs (Nov 16, 2008)

I would like to be able to get more mechanical filtration. Any one recommend a way to add water polishing?


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

Get a canister. That's what I did. I was happy with the 400, but wanted a little more options. After having a buddy get water damage to his floor from a HOB filter I put an XP2 in and when I'm not around the house much I just turn off the 400.


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

In my E.400 I use the scotch-brite scour pads in the front. ( make sure your pH is above 7.0 at all times if you go this route)

I use a course bonded floss that is blue on one side and white on the other. I believe it is designed for marineland canister filters but it performs excellent in this application as well.

Then a finer white floss that is pretty much throw away or disposable if you don't want to clean it.


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## rgr4475 (Mar 19, 2008)

Adding filter floss or pillow stuffing to your gray media container will help polish your water. Its cheap and works well. I change it about once a month. But depending on the size of your tank, a canister filter really adds great mechanical filtration.


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## Monia (Feb 25, 2009)

This Aquarium and Pond Information resource is a must read for any aquarist ... 
(as well as one Emperor Filter) with Bio Wheels against Sponge Filters, ... I do 
STRONLY recommend the purchase of a filter such a Hydro Sponge Filter or ... Not 
just a filter, but a monthly maintenance miracle or better â€œA useful too ...


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## natalie559 (Dec 6, 2007)

rgr4475 said:


> Adding filter floss or pillow stuffing to your gray media container will help polish your water.


Agree.


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## Jalo Reefa' (Feb 20, 2009)

A canister filter... ANY canister filter, has about a 100% better chance of leaking and causing water damage than an Emperor 400. There is virtually NO way for it to leak. I have experiences one minor issue in years of using them, and that was a spray bar issue (and was my fault after not installing it correctly after taking it out to clean it).

I use both of them, so this is unbiased. Both have their advantages and there is certainly a much wider array of options for canisters (and they are better for mechanical filtration) - but if you want to talk "risk of water damage" or failure leave the Emperor 400 out of the discussion, there's pretty much no risk at all with them. Canisters have o-rings, seals, hoses, etc.


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

i have to agree i have dual emperor 400s on my 75G and they work marvelously


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Jalo Reefa' said:


> A canister filter... ANY canister filter, has about a 100% better chance of leaking and causing water damage than an Emperor 400. There is virtually NO way for it to leak. I have experiences one minor issue in years of using them, and that was a spray bar issue (and was my fault after not installing it correctly after taking it out to clean it).
> 
> I use both of them, so this is unbiased. Both have their advantages and there is certainly a much wider array of options for canisters (and they are better for mechanical filtration) - but if you want to talk "risk of water damage" or failure leave the Emperor 400 out of the discussion, there's pretty much no risk at all with them. Canisters have o-rings, seals, hoses, etc.


I have Emperor 280s running on different tanks, and I'm pretty happy with them. But the one in my 29g South American tank has a nasty habit of splashing the water around as it comes out of the intake into the reservoir. This gentle splashing eventually leads to a steady drip that escapes over the top of the back corner. This drip, drip, drip lead to about 5 litres of water on my office floor one night before I came into work. Not bad, but not fun.
I've cleaned and reassembled the intake shaft and impeller many times. The only thing that works is a little DIY cover in the back corner and weekly filter pad washings/changings. I don't love maintaining my filter on a weekly basis, so this particular Emperor is being swaped out with a canister.

I'm sure my issue is pretty rare, but I think it's safe to say that anything that carries water _can _leak. After all, it wasn't Intelligent Design that created the Grand Canyon; it was water.


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## Jalo Reefa' (Feb 20, 2009)

thats not a problem with a filter design, thats a problem with a faulty unit.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Jalo Reefa' said:


> thats not a problem with a filter design, thats a problem with a faulty unit.


Filter design/faulty unit: either way it's water on the floor, right?

And as for polishing, I agree with the many posts above; fill the empty gray media holder with floss. I don't even use the "Rite Fit" filters, since I have no need for carbon or a fancy blue colour.


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## Jalo Reefa' (Feb 20, 2009)

maybe your filter doesn't work properly because you're "customizing it" and possibly using things its not designed to be used for??? Just a thought.

I don't use the cartridges either - but Dr. Fosters and Smith sells a product called Bio3 that is specifically made to fit the Emperors.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Trying not to hijack the thread here, but I 'customized' _because_ of the leak. The leak came first.

Not trying to pick a fight about Emperors here, I think they're pretty good since I bought two. I simply wanted to provide a very real world example of one that leaked.


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## tbanks (Feb 20, 2009)

- read and interesting post on another site - on the 400 (I have two) - will credit the author assuming i can find it again...houstonfishbox.com (i think)

The design of the 400 diverts 50% of the water to turn the bio wheels and the other 50% gets filtered - the author removed the spray bar and added two small pieces of pvc with a joint to divert the balance of the water behind the filter pad. they added a small hole in the joint to put one stream of water on to the bio wheel to turn the wheel...effectively the mod filters 95% of the water moving through the intake

pretty ingenous I thought, but haven't tried it...combine that with the diy wet/dry mod on this site, the pad mentioned above and you can create a much more powerful tool


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## tbanks (Feb 20, 2009)

credit for the above...goes to fshfrk in h-town
http://www.houstonfishbox.com/vforums/s ... hp?t=25815


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## ssondubs (Nov 16, 2008)

I purchased a 2nd Emperor 400 today!


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## angrybeerguy (Aug 5, 2003)

*** Had 2 400s running for years no problems.


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

ya i have 2 E 400's on my 75g and thier GREAT filters well worth it!


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## ssondubs (Nov 16, 2008)

Are any of you guys using both slots (primary then secondary) with something other than the "RITE SIZE E" pads? and if so how are you filling the gray media tray with MECHANICAL filter media? I find the slots get in the way...


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

I just cut filter pads/floss in strips and put them in the gray media tray. I rinse them after a few weeks and replace the floss a few weeks after the rinse.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/power_filter_tricks_v.php


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Take a look Emperor 400 owners :thumb: 
http://www.mbunamadness.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=84


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

There is an almost identical thread on these forums as well.
I remember it was about a year ago.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

I used to run an Emp400 for bio, but coupled it with an Aqua-Clear HOB style filter with double-sponge for extra mechanical filtration.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who is currently only running a wee little whisper-3 in-tank filter for his daughter's betta  )


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## phillyb (Apr 1, 2009)

I just ordered two more, found them for fifty bucks. Will do until I can afford something better. Loving all these mods though.


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## ssondubs (Nov 16, 2008)

E400's still running strong! Sometimes they can get a little loud but a quick impeller cleaning seems to the trick. Anybody else experience this?


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Just went over this thread again and wondered why no one mentioned it.
Almost any HOBs` claim to fame is mechanical filtration.
Your average HOB will move more water than all but a few of the higher priced canisters.
When trying to get floating gunk from your water, it is all about the flow.
Even relatively porous media has the ability to trap ever smaller particles as the gunk builds up. 
More flow equals more trips through the media.
That is why you finally end up with bypass, when the media is so full of gunk the water canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t get through the filter media anymore.
I`m not into a HOB versus canister debate.
That has been done to death, with both camps claiming victory., when in truth, each has strong points and weaknesses.

*diverts 50% of the water to turn the bio wheels and the other 50% gets filtered*

I thought that was a pretty good point, which I had not considered before. Never owned an Emp so this was never a thing to happen to me. This would be a major weakness in design if true.
DonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t believe I had seen this brought up in any previous postings.


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## BryanR73 (Mar 1, 2006)

The fact that the Emperor does divert half the water flow to turn the biowheels is a main reason I dumped mine a while back for the Penquin 350's. It just makes alot more sense, the Emperor moves 400gph but only 200gph is filtered. The penguin is for all intents and purposes the exact same thing and moves and FILTERS 350gph. Plus they are alot cheaper than the Emperor.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

KaiserSousay said:


> *diverts 50% of the water to turn the bio wheels and the other 50% gets filtered*


Perhaps Emperor 280s work differently than 400s, but my 280 only diverts a tiny percentage of water to push the bio-wheel.

Just an educated guess, but I'd say 85%+ of the water going into the filter passes through the floss - some of it is diverted to the bio-wheel and some of it passes over the media tray.

Certainly not as high a percentage as in my tanks with canisters, but the water readings for all of my tanks are identical: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 10 nitrates.

kevin


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## cjm9822 (Feb 6, 2009)

Emperor's are ****. I had the esact same problem as someone noted earlier, with the leaking in the back right corner from the intake ... In my opinion, they are not made as well as other filters and are very inconsistent from one filter to the next. If you have to go with a HOB, for whatever reason, get an Aquaclear .... they are much better.

I have been in this hobby for a long time ... have had 2 HOB leak on the floor (for considerable water damage) .... how many canisters have leaked? NONE

EHEIM PRO II SERIES!! FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!!!!!


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

*



Canisters generally have higher output, more power

Click to expand...

*Well, well..
Why not step on in and tell us what you think.
Wrong as you are, let us know your thoughts.
Will certainly give your post all the thought and attention it deserves.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

just stuff your gray media clamshells with filter floss and trust your bio-wheels to take care of your bio-filtration

cjm9822: you need to go somewhere else with your absolute sounding replies. *** read one reply after another from you sounding like your word is law and any other way is inferior. we get that your happy with your canister thats not to say that there the best option for every person...enough already


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## ssondubs (Nov 16, 2008)

Do you guys use the wool stuff or the sheets?


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

i use the bags of pillow batting actually.

filter floss is cheap but pillow batting at wal-mart is even cheaper. but when i did use filter floss i used the bag of loose floss and just packed the clamshells. i bought extra clamshells since the emps dont come with the extras...that way i could max out the mech filtration.

*** used different combos but would always use the floss to polish and figured why not just go straight floss. its worked out great and after a couple times wringing it uot with every waterchange its cheap enough that it can just be tossed and with the bio-wheels theres no worry that the bio-filtration will be affected.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

I know, lots of people use the loose polyfill with no problem.
I was probably not using enough, or too much.
Whenever I tried it in a HOB, I would end up with some loose strands being shot out into the tank. More than once, these strands ended up wrapped around my impeller shaft.
The stuff worked great in my sump, but I had the poly sitting on a sponge bed.
Anyway, I started using quilt batting in the HOBs`.
Same material, just woven, and did not have any problems with it.
Get a few extra clamshells. They are pretty cheap.
Nice to have a clean replacement ready to exchange during maintenance.


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## newby23 (Dec 25, 2009)

I have the peguin 350 on a 55gallon and I just oredered another one. they do work just a efficient as the 400. as someone stated earlier it is more cost efficient as well. I was able to find a brand new 350 for under $40.00 online.


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## justinf67 (Jul 19, 2009)

I just got an emp 400 for xmas and I hate the thing. for filters I have a sump, AC110, AC 50, 2 penguin 150's, and a top fin for a 10, and the emp 400. Out of all the filters listed I like the emp the least. Its brand new, and the noise from it is ridiculous! No matter what I do the impeller is making noise. My AC's are dead quiet. Even my penguins run pretty much silent. The emp spray bar design stinks. The filter also hangs down much farther into the tank compared to the AC. The AC blends in better. And lastly, the emp shoots out a lot of micro bubbles even when the water level is high. I dont get it. I heard lots of pretty good reviews but I hate it. I hoped the noise would settle down, but it hasnt... My own fault, I skimped on$. should have asked for the AC110 instead and had them pay a little more green. The only thing i like is the clamshells. I stuffed those with polyfill for mech.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i like using the sheets or quilt batting, they work really well and no really loose fibers, but it doesn't work so well in those clam shells

i am not a noob, i use hobs on tanks in rooms that aren't within earshot of me, they are very reasonable and easy filters, and in no way should some one be insulted for using them, i would hate to service 5 canisters, and i see no need in putting a canister on my smaller tanks, also when you place tanks on counters and such, hob's are actually easier to use and a better choice imo


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

> how many canisters have leaked? NONE


wow you should talk to more canster owners, especially fluval and c-series owners, there are plenty of leak stories surreounding these, where as leak stories with hob's are actually pretty rare unless you do something to crack them or something, since there is no pressure to cause leaks



> diverts 50% of the water to turn the bio wheels and the other 50% gets filtered


i don't think this is true, the second pump that powers the spraybar is located after the filter media, so it pumps the already filtered water to power the biowheel


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

it's actually just a different set of vanes on the same shaft, but mine must be broken, my spraybars don't shoot out 200gph  
It's never leaked on me yet.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

justinf67 said:
 

> I just got an emp 400 for xmas and I hate the thing. for filters I have a sump, AC110, AC 50, 2 penguin 150's, and a top fin for a 10, and the emp 400. Out of all the filters listed I like the emp the least. Its brand new, and the noise from it is ridiculous! No matter what I do the impeller is making noise. My AC's are dead quiet. Even my penguins run pretty much silent. The emp spray bar design stinks. The filter also hangs down much farther into the tank compared to the AC. The AC blends in better. And lastly, the emp shoots out a lot of micro bubbles even when the water level is high. I dont get it. I heard lots of pretty good reviews but I hate it. I hoped the noise would settle down, but it hasnt... My own fault, I skimped on$. should have asked for the AC110 instead and had them pay a little more green. The only thing i like is the clamshells. I stuffed those with polyfill for mech.


mine was really noisy out of the box, but now it's very very quiet, give it time


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## krfhsf (Dec 25, 2008)

I run 10 emp400's all modified with the spray bars removed. That was my video posted earlier. I believe at least 1/2 the water is unfiltered when you run those spray bars. Besides they clog constantly. I make a 10" x16" pattern for my batting. And cut out giant stacks all at once. Have to change pads 1 or 2 times a week because they clog so fast. I know they are clogged because of the by pass trickle. takes me 20 seconds to yank them and peel off the old into the trash can. 1 minute to get to get the batting I precut and install with 4 rubber bands(2 on ea.). 30 seconds to walk over to the tank and reinstall.
Now if poo sits in a filter you only clean once every 6-8 weeks and it liquefies did you really filter out that turd?
I also run giant home made wet/dries, and canisters on all 10 of my tanks. I set the canisters up so I only clean once every 6 months. I HATE to clean canisters.


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## cjm9822 (Feb 6, 2009)

justinf67 said:


> I just got an emp 400 for xmas and I hate the thing. for filters I have a sump, AC110, AC 50, 2 penguin 150's, and a top fin for a 10, and the emp 400. Out of all the filters listed I like the emp the least. Its brand new, and the noise from it is ridiculous! No matter what I do the impeller is making noise. My AC's are dead quiet. Even my penguins run pretty much silent. The emp spray bar design stinks. The filter also hangs down much farther into the tank compared to the AC. The AC blends in better. And lastly, the emp shoots out a lot of micro bubbles even when the water level is high. I dont get it. I heard lots of pretty good reviews but I hate it. I hoped the noise would settle down, but it hasnt... My own fault, I skimped on$. should have asked for the AC110 instead and had them pay a little more green. The only thing i like is the clamshells. I stuffed those with polyfill for mech.


Yes, I would def go with AC 110 over Emperor. Alteast the AC 110 filters all of the water (Emperor diverts water to the biowheel), and has a higher output than the Emperor 400 (500 gph vs 400 pgh). Also, I've had to Emperor leak (from the splasing in the back of the resevoir), never had an AC leak.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

cjm9822 said:


> Emperor's are far better quality filters ... to me aquaclear are cheap. I am much more satisfied with my emperor 400's than anything aquaclear can provid





cjm9822 said:


> get an emperor 400 ... best HOB filter available


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## justinf67 (Jul 19, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> mine was really noisy out of the box, but now it's very very quiet, give it time


How long? *** had mine since xmas. I would think it would have quieted down by now


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## justinf67 (Jul 19, 2009)

*steelers fan*
do you get air bubbles in the water from ur emp? mines brand new and the bubbles drive me nuts. anything i can do to quiet it down?


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

as mentioned by another member mine was a little noisy for about 2 weeks before it broke itself in and now they are all quiet besides the sound of the water trickling.

as for the micro bubbles i get some whenever i change out the floss or clean the floss but it goes away after a day or two. my guess was that the floss was trapping a little air and once it works through its done. could be the problem with your media as well. i think the finer the media the more chance of it trappin some free air


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## ssondubs (Nov 16, 2008)

Nothing wrong with having bubbles...this means your water is getting some O2.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Not to be too pedantic, but water gets oxygenated as it interacts with the atmosphere: at the _surface _of your tank.

Granted, when these bubbles hit the surface they agitate the water somewhat, which does increase oxygenation a bit.

But they do not diffuse oxygen into the water as they rise.

Not the answer to the question about a bubbling HOB, but I thought I'd point it out.

kevin


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

Please stop attacking people and stick with the topic. No personal attacks or I will lock the thread.

I edited a lot of posts and deleted a few.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

smellsfishy1 said:


> In my E.400 I use the scotch-brite scour pads in the front.* ( make sure your pH is above 7.0 at all times if you go this route)
> *
> I use a course bonded floss that is blue on one side and white on the other. I believe it is designed for marineland canister filters but it performs excellent in this application as well.
> 
> Then a finer white floss that is pretty much throw away or disposable if you don't want to clean it.


Why? I have high PH for my Africans and have been using the scotch bright for a long time. Whats the issue? I never came across any.



> A canister filter... ANY canister filter, has about a 100% better chance of leaking and causing water damage than an Emperor 400. There is virtually NO way for it to leak. I have experiences one minor issue in years of using them, and that was a spray bar issue (and was my fault after not installing it correctly after taking it out to clean it).
> 
> I use both of them, so this is unbiased. Both have their advantages and there is certainly a much wider array of options for canisters (and they are better for mechanical filtration) - but if you want to talk "risk of water damage" or failure leave the Emperor 400 out of the discussion, there's pretty much no risk at all with them. Canisters have o-rings, seals, hoses, etc.
> _________________


Thats odd cause 100% of my cans never ever leaked.

How ever Im not lazy and I do my regular maintenance to my filters,.... something I notice most people complaining about cans like to lack.

x 100000 on filter floss.

I have used filter floss and scotch bright as my ONLY media for sometime now and I couldn't be more happy with the money I save as well as the sparkling clear water.


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## ssondubs (Nov 16, 2008)

JWerner2,

What technique do you use to pack floss in your Emperors?


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

I don't understand what your point is *JWerner2*.
I'm advising others to maintain a pH above 7 because lower than that would be acidic.
In acidic conditions you run the chance of aluminum oxide getting into the tank water from the pads and killing the fish.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

smellsfishy1 said:


> I don't understand what your point is *JWerner2*.
> I'm advising others to maintain a pH above 7 because lower than that would be acidic.
> In acidic conditions you run the chance of aluminum oxide getting into the tank water from the pads and killing the fish.


I dont have a point, I was asking why :wink: . I never heard of that. I use the standard scotch bright green pads with no print.

Regardless Im in the clear I guess since I keep it above. I was thinking maybe it needed to stay neutral or lower.



> JWerner2,
> 
> What technique do you use to pack floss in your Emperors?


I dont use HOB's anymore but when I was running one I simply wet the floss down and pack it in.


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## SMoKe0uT (Aug 27, 2011)

LOL @ 200 GPH coming out of the spray bar.


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