# short body flowerhorn upside down/ on his side



## red_ghost (Feb 18, 2013)

I have a 5" short body flowerhorn who has been upside down for the last week and a half after fighting with my mayan. The flowerhorn had what looked like very small minor wounds (some missing scales) and a clouded eye. All external injuries are now healed. The mayan has been separated into another tank, and the flowerhorn has been seperated from his aggressive tank mates. I tried melafix and epson salt. I also tried maracyn. he seems unable to float or swim normally. if he tries to swim he ends up just bobbing up and down on his head. if I reach in and try to hep him up, he just does a little cartwheel and falls to the bottom upside down or on his side again. He will not try to get food, but he will eat if sinking pellet fall in front of his mouth. I tested teh water, 0 nitrates and 0 nitrites, ammonia is around 0 ppm. the jack dempsey and salvini in with him all are fine and being their normal selves. I asked opinions at two lfs. One tried selling me over $100 in antibiotics and anti funal medications. The other said most likely he has an internal swim bladder injury and should either be euthanized or to let nature take its course. Do you guys have any recommendations for me? He's my favorite of my fish.


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## red_ghost (Feb 18, 2013)

For what its worth, he also demonstrated this same behavior before when stressed. Just before it would usually only last a day or so. Also he's always swam kinda awkward since I got him (7 months or so ago).


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

What size is your tank?

How long has it been set up? Is it CYCLED? (This can rule out cycling issues.) You should have some nitrate reading in a cycled tank and Zero ammonia & nitrite.

What do you FEED them?

Have you introduced any new fish recently?

What is your MAINTENANCE schedule, and what product/s (if any) do you use to neutralize chlorine or chloramines in your TAP WATER? (This helps to determine if a new disease has been introduced to the tank or if it's some kind of husbandry problem.)


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## red_ghost (Feb 18, 2013)

75 gallon

The tank has been set up for almost a year. I gave teh nitrate and nitrite readings above. This was using the strips though.

I feed them hikari gold, red sumo, and blood worms.

The latest fish I introduced was the mayan, but that was months ago.

I generally do a 30% water change weekly and use prime to dechlorinate.

The tank mates are a 4" jack dempsey female who's very submissive, a 6" male salvini who's moderately aggressive (but leaves the fh alone), and a 5" mayan. None of these fish show any symptoms or any problems. As I said before, the mayan has been removed.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

It's possible that your fish has a swim bladder problem. Is there a chance you can take a clear picture of him and post it here? There is a link in my signature on how to post pics.


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## red_ghost (Feb 18, 2013)

the fuzzy spots in the picture are bubbles, because I had the tank only 75% filled, to allow more oxygen to hit the bottom while he's sick.

Today at least he flopped himself around trying to bite my jack dempsey. Thats the most activity I've seen from him the last couple days.
Also the substrate is silica sand, so it does not alter the ph.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

The increase in his activity is a good sign but I am still at a loss of the problem.


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## red_ghost (Feb 18, 2013)

Is the swim bladder toward the top of his body? When he fought the mayan (which I saw happen), they locked jaws, the mayan backed off and hit him in the head and eye a few times. Immediately he went upside down. He had a couple scales missing and meat torn up. The mayan is about the same size. They were tank mates for a few months with the mayan showing no aggression to him (she would chase the jack dempsey, and get chased occasionally by the salvini) and swimming right next to him, then they recently just started fighting.

As I said before, he would go upside down when stressed even if there was no injury. I used to have him in with a blood parrot who was psychotic. After I sold the BP, he was fine and had no one that would mess with him. When he used to go upside down, it would only be a few hours. He always swam awkwardly and is not very agile. It may be hard to tell from the pic but I would say he's almost a full circle shape, so maybe a bonzai? I wonder if it could be genetic or a deformity. Not sure. Anyway, thanks for all your help Deeda. I'm hoping he will start getting more active. Do you think I should increase my amount of water changes while he experiences this? Do you think that will stress out the salvini or jack dempsey too much?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

I wouldn't increase your water changes unless your testing shows that it is needed. The ammonia and nitrite should always be Zero and the nitrate should be no higher than 20 ppm, preferably lower when you have sick fish but you should have at least 5 ppm nitrate or higher in a cycled tank. My concern is that you stated you had Zero nitrates using the test strips. I would either purchase a liquid nitrate test kit or have your local fish store test your water sample for you.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Here is a link regarding fishes Swim bladder


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## red_ghost (Feb 18, 2013)

Unfortunately there has been no improvement.


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## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

Maybe were not looking at the problem correctly. Since he's short bodied his organs may be more compact together. It might be due to organs squishing each other or if there was chunks out of his head from the fight, he might have injury to his organs.


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## red_ghost (Feb 18, 2013)

That's kind of what I was thinking cichlidman. I suppose in that case theres nothing I can do. I just hope he's not in tons of pain.


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## red_ghost (Feb 18, 2013)

He's still laying on his side, but occasionally he springs up, swims a lap around the tank and falls back over. I have him in a separate 40 gallon tank with a baby (3") flowerhorn. He also likes to spring up and try to bite the baby one (which gets pretty scared because I'm pretty sure the baby forgets its an actual fish and not an aquarium decoration).


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