# Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!



## Gaynor (Apr 10, 2009)

I have got a six foot tank(134 UK G ) with mainly malawi cichlids. I have had it for about four months.

About 2 weeks ago we bought some new fish. About 4-5 days later some of the old fish - not the new ones started behaving strange. These fish included 2 venustus and 2 Metriaclima callainos pearly.

Symptoms include, being anti-social, hiding in corners, not eating, and laboured breating. Also a few days later most of the fish in the tank started 'flashing'. There are no external signs at all. All of the water parameters are fine - Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, Nitrate 20mg/L, pH 8.0, GH >214 and KH 140-200 ppm. I have also had them checked by a local fish store. I do a weekly water change of at least 30% and vacuum the gravel. 
After a couple of days one of the venustus died.

Nobody seems to know how best to advise me on what to do. I spoke to Waterlife Fish treatments they advised me to use both Myxazin and Octozin treatments, but to administer twelve hours apart.

I have just finished using these treatments. The venustus that survived now seems to have improved and is eating, his breathing is still slightly laboured. He does have periods of quite a lot of swimming around, but also likes to hover around in the stream of the inlet pipe from the filter. The two Metriaclima are swimming around a bit more and are interested in food, but not actually eating at the moment. Also some of the fish are breathing slightly more laboured than normal. All of the other fish seem to have stopped flashing, except on the odd occasion.

So overall there does seem to be improvement, but not total recovery!!! Do I just wait and see for a while now, do I repeat previous treatment once more, or do I use another treatment????

Any ideas and advice from anyone and everyone would be gratefully appreciated. I am totally confused and frustrated :-? :-? :-?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Did you add the new fish without quarantine?

How were they accepted by the tank? Was there alot of aggression?

It sounds like you may have introduced internal parasites to the tank. I would continue the treatments you were using over a longer period of time. The package instructions rarely advise us to treat long enough to actually cure anything.

I would also increase the frequency of your water changes while treating. Perhaps do a water change every other day???

Bloat is believed to be spread by healthy fish mouthing the feces of infected fish, so extra water changes/substrate vacuumings will help stop the spread of the disease.

You can also add epsom salt at 1 cup per 100G of water - dissolve it in some tank water first.


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## Gaynor (Apr 10, 2009)

Yes I did add the fish without quarantine - not the best thing to do I know! There wasn't any aggression when the fish were added. Thank you for your advice, I think if nobody comes up with any other ideas, that I will do a large water change and repeat the treatments. Thank You


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## Gaynor (Apr 10, 2009)

I have also seen that the 'not so well' fish have got a whitish colour faecal material.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

That is indicative of bloat, but it can also occur after using meds, which you've done, so it's hard to say for sure.

Browse through some of the bloat threads in this folder. You'll see that its rarely cured with just one treatment, and the longer you wait to treat, the less the chances for success.


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## Gaynor (Apr 10, 2009)

I am getting obsessed! I can also see on a few of the fish some slight black marks on the fins, I have not noticed that before today. Could it be part of the problem or down to medication??? I don't think we can get as many of the fish medications over here - apparently due to availability of antibiotics, as far as I am aware I can not get Clout in the UK. Octozin can be used in the treatment of Bloat, which is why I used it.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Black spots can mean one of three things...Too much spirulina in the diet, stress or parasites.

I would finish off the bloat treatment first, take a look at their diet, and take it from there.

What is the full stock list on the tank?


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## Gaynor (Apr 10, 2009)

I have previously entered a post a few days ago -ADVICE PLEASE - SICK FISH . I continued with the treatment, and have now done a water change and added more salt. This morning the zebra pearly fish died, just before it died I saw a white string like thing coming out of its gills. I took it to a really good local fish store, they took scrapings of outside of fish and of its gills and could see nothing. They advised me not to treat and just use the salt. This evening the female red empress fish has died too! This was not particuarly showing any abnormal signs, except I have just noticed some small raised circular black spots on fins. This was one of the last fishes we put in about 2 weeks ago. The zebra pearly and possibly this fish too, was wild caught. Please anybody, any ideas??? Sorry to be a pain, but I just dont know what else to do, and its awful to see fish dying, and I dont know what to do !!!    [/code][/quote]


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

what are your water paramters?....also whats ure normal water change schedule and how much and often are you feeding? Complete stock list may also help


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The first thing you need to do is keep your topics together, so we don't have to ask for the same information over and over again!

How long has this tank been set up?

What are the water parameters on the tank?

What is your normal tank maintenance routine?

Please give a detailed history of the tank, including any losses, and symptoms leading up to losses.

Are these fish flashing against objects in the tank at all?

Any redness around the gills?

Is the medication you are using for internal parasites or external parasites, or both?


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## Gaynor (Apr 10, 2009)

The tank has been set up for about four months. I always do at least a 30% water change every week and clean the gravel. Ammonia is 0, nitrite 0 nitrate 15, pH8.0 GH = 14 drops (>214 ppm) KH= 9 drops (140-200 ppm).
There doesnt appear to be any redness around the gills. The fish were flashing a lot and I treated with Myxazin and Octozin, which seemed to virtually stop the flashing. They are flashing occasionally now, which I know can be normal. The only visible signs are that the female red empress fish had small raised black spots on their fins and one of these have died. I also had two Met. zebra pearly which were both behaving strangely - hiding in corners, not eating and breathing rapidly. One of these have also died. Just before it died a saw a long thin string like object coming out of one of its gills! These fish have all been wild caught in lake malawi.
The Zebra that died I took to a LFS and they did external scrapings and took sections of it gill and looked at it under the microscope, and said they could see nothing. They have advised to just add more salt (approx 1.5KG for 500L of actual water) and wait and see!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I'm wondering if the long thin string-like thing was just a part of the slime coat sloughing off...This happens sometimes. You don't normally _see_ gill flukes.

Do either of the meds you have contain praziquantel? If not, can you get praziquantel? It's a good antiparasitic to use when you don't really know what is going on.

Did you notice any white stringy feces? Any bloating or emaciation?

I agree that the symptoms you are describing sound like bloat, but hiding, not eating and rapid breathing can be indicative of almost any illness, so it's hard to know if you're on the right track.

How long did you use the meds you've used total?

It may be time to experiment a bit and move on to a broad spectrum antibiotic. Do you have access to sulfa or erythromycin?


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## scott mclay (Jun 10, 2009)

hi seems we might have same problem only i have frontosas i have been treating with 2x 20% dailywater changes and adding epsolm salt u get from asda (cheapest by miles) rest ov my fish all good just one male whos now struggling this might help but im also speaking 2 cichlidholic abt it.i lost one male 2 month ago 2 it not octozin or myaczin worked .


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## Gaynor (Apr 10, 2009)

Hi Scott, sorry to hear your having problems too. Its so frustrating!!! On Saturday I went to see an owner of a LFS, and he has really tried to help, and given us a regime to follow - so far so good, but its still early days. This is what I have done.
Day 1

Add cichlid salts. ( I have been using normal pond salts, but not cichlid salts )

I was given some liquid trace elements of lake Malawi to add to the tank - this seemed to really perk the fish up.

Add Baytril

Add wormer

Day 3

Add Octozin, but add the whole 3 days dose together.

Leave for 7 days and then do a water change.

So far we are seeing good results, I will let you know of any further developments - good or bad!!!

Good luck with your fish by the way :thumb:


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## Tang_Man (Jun 21, 2009)

How are things going, any progress?


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## scott mclay (Jun 10, 2009)

big guy doing well now just a small bit of floating probs noticed one of other guys had white poo but seem 2 ov caught it earlly all eating and swimming well going 2 keep up with salt and dailly waterchanges for another week.cheers :thumb:


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

good to hear :thumb:


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## Gaynor (Apr 10, 2009)

Hi sorry, I haven't been on for a few days. Good news - my fish all appear to be doing really well. I didn't loose any more at all, and they zebra pearly who I thought I would loose for sure, has made a full recovery!!! She hadn't eaten for about ten days, but the last couple of days she is really hungry and eating loads!!! Thank you everyone for your help, it really helps to know there are people there to help!  :fish: =D>


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

well thats great....glad everything worked out :dancing:


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

just wanted to say that i feel for you on the lose, but on a lighter note.. way to go with saving the rest, and you def. came to the right place!!! looks like cichlidaholic helped ya through it,, again always the best info. i myself am going through a parasite battle.. hopefully mine will turn out as well as yours.. :thumb:


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## Tang_Man (Jun 21, 2009)

Excellent news Gaynor :fish:


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