# Trust the experts



## jessa (Apr 12, 2016)

Unfortunately I was away from my tank for about a year and when I finally got it back I now have a whole new stock of mystery fish, and my previously established colonies are almost non existent. Absolutely devastated and not impressed with the person who was supposed to be taking care of it for me to say the least (what a disaster!). Hoping to get some ID's - any and all input is appreciated, I've exhausted my own knowledge, contacts and resources and have come up pretty short - especially on this first mystery female...most of the fish have drastic colour morphs so I've included short descriptions. I may have to break up this post, but gonna go for posting all in one! 
I am under the impression most of, if not all of, these guys are hybrids and I will need to get rid of the majority of them, even just common names or best guesses for me to research are very much appreciated at this point.

1 - 
She goes from solid white to this purple/blue flush to full barring (horizontal and vertical) & occasionally shows spots similar to those found on Midas

2 - 
She is generally this brown/orange colour occasionally darker with a purple and green flush through her body when spawning. Male is actually lighter in colour but still brown and shows the same light spots/baring

3 - 
These guys have a solid black strip along their dorsal fin, and iridescent blue pelvic fins with light blue or silver starting to show through the body depending on male or female (females tend to be the darker of the two, showing almost a grey/silver)

4 - 
This male is easily the most drastic colour changer - his face generally stays blue (bar through the eye to the lip changes in intensity), he shows everything from off white with heavy baring to purple to light blue. Caught him with a mix of purple/blue here but can post pictures of his 3 most common colour choices and baring if necessary. Him and the first mystery female are breeding prolifically.

5 - 
usually solid white - was upsetting him/her(?) by taking photos, also has light yellow pelvic fins

6 - 
Green & Light pink flushing along the belly when spawning

7 - 
Also upset by me taking photos, and very hard to get a pic of this guy - golden in colour with blue lips & blue in the body is starting to come out as well, have seen photos of these before but never a name

I know this is a lot to post and I thank anyone who even makes it to the end in advance for taking the time to read and hopefully give me some input. Don't want to give away mystery fish as much as I don't want them in my tank lol

Looking forward to gaining some insight on these guys so I can find them (and their offspring) new homes and re-stock my tank back to mbunas


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

These all look like hybrids to me. They look like the same quality of fish you get out of the "assorted" African cichlid tank.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Some of them look like bumblebee mixes but could be kenyi mixes too.

The 4th one (I think) looks mostly like some kind of elongatus.

Maybe it's just the pics but these have to be the drabbest african cichlids I have seen.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

All of these fish are hybrids. They are also all fairly low quality. They do not have any common names other than "hybrid African Cichlid".

None of the fish have any of the characteristics of the established hybrid strains (OB peacock, Strawberry Peacock, etc...).


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## jessa (Apr 12, 2016)

Fish Jerk said:


> Some of them look like bumblebee mixes but could be kenyi mixes too.
> 
> The 4th one (I think) looks mostly like some kind of elongatus.
> 
> Maybe it's just the pics but these have to be the drabbest african cichlids I have seen.


So I just went and did some research on different elongatus species, the colours, body shape, baring and fins don't match him, neither do juvies, as the males I have from him are dark purple...he's also already just over 5" and obviously still not full grown. Sorry about the photos, taking them from my phone, I know they look washed out, especially the ones who weren't at the front of the tank, and purple doesn't show at all. I can try again if I need to....


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## jessa (Apr 12, 2016)

Yeah, this is what I was worried about. At this point then I'll ask of the best way to get rid of them. I don't have the heart to kill them but I certainly don't want them, and have no idea where they came from. It's unfortunate I couldn't find any help here either lol


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Sorry I have to agree that they do look like hybrids. I do understand the difficult choice for you to decide whether to euthanize them and it is something that many responsible aquarists decide to do anyway.


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## jessa (Apr 12, 2016)

Deeda said:


> Sorry I have to agree that they do look like hybrids. I do understand the difficult choice for you to decide whether to euthanize them and it is something that many responsible aquarists decide to do anyway.


I'm sure most of them are hybrids, and I understand posting young females aren't easy to figure out (all of these except 1, 4 & 7) are only about 1 1/2" but they are all very healthy & a couple are quite beautiful. You really think they should all die? I have to defer to the experts on this one as I've never had this issue before. I want my tank back to where it was, but i honestly don't think I have it in me to kill 60 or so healthy cichlids. Could you?


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

You have to do something, they will just keep breeding and filling your tank up even more.

In reality most people probably should not have females in the first place. If you keep them in a proper manner then you will have endless hundreds of fry in no time. It can be hard to get a home for even good stock locally, but these guys are all mixed up and honestly just don't look very good.

If you're lucky maybe your fish store will take some of them in for free and give them away cheap. If it's for home use most people have no reason to care really that they are hybrids.

You may not care either, but if you have females you are going to have fry...maybe even if there is no male. And 60 fish is a lot to take care of, even in a big tank.

In a nutshell that is why I don't really keep them any more - I just have the one hybrid guy left now. He is a real looker, though.


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## jessa (Apr 12, 2016)

Yes, I separate the fry and keep them in their own holding tank, been keeping cichlids for 8 years now.... Not interested in keeping a male only tank, as I really do get attached to personalities and you don't really get to see full range of colours or personality without a female or 3, plus they also have their own quirks. Really have no interest in keeping animals as decorations...Was honestly just looking for some new knowledge and insight on these new inhabitants, beyond disappointed with my first experience posting here, always seemed like a very reliable source of information. I have decided I will not kill them because I'm not sure of their breed, or they look bland from my phone camera - not sure of my background either, and I'm also not photogenic lol it just seems so wrong. I really was just hoping someone could have shed some light on these, oh well - the search continues...


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## Sinister-Kisses (Jul 19, 2013)

I don't understand why you keep saying you're disappointed in the replies you have received, that you were "hoping someone could shed some light on these". Many people DID. They're hybrids. I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for people to tell you, but that's unfortunately the truth of it. NO ONE will be able to tell you that "fish # is a hybrid of this species and this species, and fish #2 is this and this mixed..." It's impossible to say. They're mutts. What else is there to know?

If you like them, fine! Keep them. But you were the one who started the post by saying you were devastated to come home and find your beautiful tank was now full of THESE. If you don't like them, then get rid of them. Many people will tell you to cull them, as some already have - I have a tendency to agree. But if you don't want to do that, fine - obviously, no one on this forum can make you do anything. But if you rehome them, be as responsible about it as you can be and ensure the person they go to is very well aware that they are hybrids.

The information you received here is as reliable as you are going to get. Anything beyond "they're hybrids, this one COULD be a kenyi hybrid of some kind or a bumblebee hybrid of some kind" is total bull.


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## jessa (Apr 12, 2016)

I was hoping to get to know what the mixes were, even just on one or two, yes. What colours to expect from the little guys, temperament ect if possible so I can decide who stays and who doesn't, maybe a few of them are too young, or really just a lost cause? I figured the big gold guy would have been easy, as I see them a lot, but was not able to get a photo of him showing his blue, instead he just looks stressed. I know users here are more experienced - and i like to know what I'm keeping lol yes, even the unfortunate hybrids. Fortunately I've found someone at the aquarium society who I think will help me sort a lot of these out  i totally agree and may be stuck with some residents I don't want, simply because I can't kill em and wouldn't giv away - they obviously came into my tank that way...the reason I reached out for identification was so I'm not putting someone in this same position. I guess I was caught off guard being advised to kill them, and I apologize again for not being able to take photos that do these guys justice. Decided to set up a new tank for the unidentified lol out of curiosity is it very common to kill unidentified fish? Should I try identification when colours start coming in better? Like, when i don't have to describe what I see - also would love tips on how to get better photos, as I'm sure it would make things easier. They honestly aren't drab, it's my lack of experience taking pictures of fish lol


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

These fish look mature, so it's not like they are going to mature into something very different. Many seem like part Mbuna, part non Mbuna. Seem to be hybrids of many different things.... "Haps, Aulonocara, Mbuna...

Not sure from what you are saying but... were they hybrids from the fish that lived there before? DO you remember what was in the tank before? Or were these fish introduced? These fish are such bizarre hybrids, they are not fish you would find at a store, but random hybrids from somebody's tank.


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## jessa (Apr 12, 2016)

They were introduced for sure, never kept anything like them, last time I saw my tank I had auratus, demasoni, afra white tops, an old yellow lab, and acei yellow tails. - only a few of them are still there. Again, my crappy photo taking lol I know they won't change into different fish, but some of the smaller guys are starting to show new colours that I seem to be incapable of capturing, iridescent greens and blues and such - maybe I'll try to get a photo early in the morning when I have the help of natural light? I was hoping to get an idea off of these weird body shapes - particularly that sloped for head, bizarre is a good word for them lol. I do keep females but don't let them spit in the tank. I've also never kept anything pure white, or brown / orange and I assume at only an inch or so colours are yet to come for a lot of them. Just identified one mystery fish (not pictured here) as a strawberry peacock, just starting to get his colours, made me start questioning these other little guys. I know a few of them I'll probably never figure out for realz. I also am suspicious of some hap influence, especially the large blue/purple male, especially because of his baring, frustrating because I can take photos at different times and they don't even look like the same fish, if I posted him with baring would it help? Or the gold one showing off his blue? Most of these are females which (for me at least) has made it twice as difficult lol my assumption is that these were thrown in as replacements before my tank was dropped off - like I wouldn't notice...


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

jessa said:


> I was hoping to get to know what the mixes were, even just on one or two, yes.


Wishful thinking. 
Sometimes it is apparent what one of the parents are, but very seldom can one can conclude with any certainty what both parents are. And when the parents are hybrids themselves, then there is a multitude of species involved. 
Sometimes new or inexperienced hobbyists will come out and say this fish is X crossed with Y. It may very well look like that to them.....but generally, there just full of it. We generally avoid identifying a fish as a product of a certain cross, because we know that it seldom can be determined simply by looking at the fish!


jessa said:


> Should I try identification when colours start coming in better? Like, when i don't have to describe what I see - also would love tips on how to get better photos, as I'm sure it would make things easier. They honestly aren't drab, it's my lack of experience taking pictures of fish lol


Your still clinging to the notion that the parentage of these fish can somehow be determined simply by looking at them. IMO, your photos are just fine for the purposes of identification.
You have been given an ID.....but your not happy with it, because it is too general. Your fish are mbuna hybrids with some hap and/or peacock mixed in. Unlikely to get too much more specific then that. And anyone who claims your fish is X times Y probably doesn't know what they are talking about.


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

Like many people have said its would be impossible to tell what mix of what these fish are. They all look to be very low quality and if they were sold at at a LFS I would never shop there again. To me these look like "assorted" Africans that you would find at the big box stores...

You mentioned when you last saw the tank that it was full of mbuna. These fish have more than mbuna in them so no way they could have been a result of breeding from the original stock.

Unfortunately you are probably stuck with them. Reputable fish stores would not take them and if they did they are not reputable.


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## jessa (Apr 12, 2016)

Thanks for all the input


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