# Bloat



## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

*Water Parameters*
-pH: 7.8
-Ammonia: 0ppm
-Nitrite: 0ppm
-Nitrate: 0ppm
-Temperature: 79Ã‚Â°

*Feeding*
-1mm NLS cichlid sinking pellets
-Fasting one day a week

About 3 weeks ago I noticed my orange firefish hadnt eaten for 2 days, he wasnt reclusive and was very active but to be on the safe side I moved him to a 10g tank and added some Epsom salt. 3 days after that since he still didnt eat so I started treating him with clout with this routine: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... hp?t=24132 After day 5 I gave it another 3 days to see if he would eat but no luck. I started the treatment again, still no luck.

This morning I noticed a white thread like hair hanging from him (symptom of bloat). After seeing that I began another treatment of clout. Hes still very active in the 10g but hasnt had a bowel movement in 3 weeks so what does the white thread mean....does that mean hes getting better or worse?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If he is not eating, there is no food waste for him to pass through his digestive system. You won't know anything until you get him to eat again.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

DJRansome said:


> If he is not eating, there is no food waste for him to pass through his digestive system.


I know, he hasnt eaten in 3 weeks so theres nothing for him to pass. I was just curious about seeing the white thread today. I caught it early enough so I didnt know if seeing that white thread was a good thing or not after 2 separate clout treatments.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Sub-Mariner said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> > If he is not eating, there is no food waste for him to pass through his digestive system.
> ...


Well...I am not an expert on bloat but would guess that if you are now seeing the white stringy poop that at least his system is still moving and not totally clogged up. Does he even try to eat or just no interest at all?


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

He sees the food drop but he doesnt try to eat it. For a fish that hasnt eaten in over 3 weeks he is still very active so I hope hes strong enough to pull through.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Still no change after treating again with clout. What else can I try? Could it possibly be a bacterial infection?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Have you been doing water changes?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would stop treating and observe for symptoms before trying something else.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> Have you been doing water changes?


*** done water changes before and after the clout treatments. Since I stopped the clout treatment, which was this past weekend, *** done 2 water changes.



DJRansome said:


> I would stop treating and observe for symptoms before trying something else.


I havent done anything since Monday. Saturday I treated him full strength just for one day and that was it. *** done 2 water changes since then and hes still not eating. Hes still very active in the tank. Hes always swimming around and this morning when I checked on him he came up to the glass. I put 4x-1mm pellets in there so I hope when I get back home tonight theyre gone.

Not sure what else I can do. Hes healthy looking, he still has all of his color, his belly isnt sunken in, theres nothing wrong with his body, no missing scales, no weird spots or growths, no damage etc..he just wont eat?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Are you adding epsom to the replacement water when doing water changes?


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

GTZ said:


> Are you adding epsom to the replacement water when doing water changes?


I used it when I first put him in the 10g before I started treating him with clout but not since then. Do you think that will help? If so is it 1 tbsp per 10g of water?

I wanted to ask about water changes too in the hospital tank. I have established media in the filter on the 10g tank and the ammonia is 0ppm, so should I do water changes every day or every two days?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I would do daily water changes. Dose 2 tbsp per 10g. If there's no epsom in the water right now, add it over a 3-4 hour period. Dose new water before adding it to the tank.
If you don't see any bowel movements or eating soon, you may want to switch meds, I would try metronidazole next.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Something is irritating the gut lining (causing sloughing/excretion of the protective layer (white poo) leaving the fish more suseptable to bloat (becoming systemic not just limmited to the gut). Not a good sine. Yep keep treating for bloat. Yep switch from Clout to Metro or vice versa if one does not do the trick but give iether about 7 days before giving up on it. Yep 1 teaspoon of Magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts) per 10g can only help best added slowly with the water change water. Only food that should be offered should be Metro soaked or you are just fueling whatever is out of control in the fishes gut.

All the best James


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Thanks for the help everyone!! :thumb:

I have metro soaked food (forgot the brand) and I also have Seachems powder Metro. I'll probably start that this Saturday. I want to give him some time without meds because *** noticed, which I forgot to mention, that his gills look irritated and are redish / pink in color. Hes not flashing so I dont know what that means and even though I have established media in the filter I checked the water just to make sure of the ammonia level and its 0ppm.

Heres a quick video:


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Clout can be a fairly harsh medication, continue testing your water parameters. Throw in some carbon for a day or two before beginning with metro and continue the water changes.


24Tropheus said:


> Yep 1 teaspoon of Magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts) per 10g can only help best added slowly with the water change water.


2 tablespoons per 10g.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

GTZ said:


> Clout can be a fairly harsh medication, continue testing your water parameters. Throw in some carbon for a day or two before beginning with metro and continue the water changes.


*** read its pretty harsh. Last year I had a Blue Neon that wouldnt eat, I guess he had bloat too and within 1-5 day treatment he was better. Not sure why this Firefish isnt responding to the clout??

I put some carbon in last night and added 2 tbsp. of Epsom salt over a 5hr period. If he doesnt start eating by Monday I'll start treating him with Metro. Thanks for the help!! :thumb:


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Well hes still not eating but is still very active. I dont want to try clout any more so I started treating him with Maracyn+ this past Sunday. Maybe its a bacterial infection or ulcer?


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## marigoldkelly95 (Feb 9, 2012)

It looks as though we have the same problem.  Except I am almost certain I had one with bloat (euthanized) and just figured this one got it too. But I have no idea now :-?


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## marigoldkelly95 (Feb 9, 2012)

I also just experienced the "white thread". Mine WANTS to eat but spits it out.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

marigoldkelly95 said:


> I also just experienced the "white thread". Mine WANTS to eat but spits it out.


Are you treating? Article link in sig.


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## marigoldkelly95 (Feb 9, 2012)

I just finished a weeks worth of treatment with Metro+. He got more active and now shows interest in food. I'm giving it a few days to see what happens. All my other fish are healthy.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Glad to hear.

I tried Metro in the past but had better luck w/ Clout. I guess after I treat him with Maracyn+ I'll give him a few days and if I dont see him eating I'll bust out the Metro and give it a try. If the Metro doesnt work I'll give him a few days and if I dont see him eating I'll try one last Clout treatment. If that doesnt work I'll just let him be until he either eats or dies because at that point I will have tried everything.

Hes still very active in the tank and his body looks healthy.


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## marigoldkelly95 (Feb 9, 2012)

I am at that point as well. It's getting too expensive to try to save him. He's very active and body looks healthy he just won't eat anything except sun dried brine shrimp and even that is a day by day. Everything else he spits back out. He acts extremely hungry though.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

At least your fish tries to eat. Mine doesnt even try and eat.

Hes going on 5 weeks now and hasnt eaten anything. Hes still very active. I started another clout treatment today because I didnt have enough Metro. Im ordering some tonight and after the clout I'll give him a few days I'll try the metro. After that its just a waiting game.


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## marigoldkelly95 (Feb 9, 2012)

That's too bad.  Mine is going on 4 weeks. I don't have a hospital tank and decided to treat the whole tank anyway as a precaution. Since the subdom died (euthanized) he's calmed down but has recently taken to harassing my sunshine peacock :x. So I'm starting to think that he's gotten big and is just an ahole. :roll: At this point he's stressing himself out.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Well hes still not eating!!??

I tried the Maracyn and that didnt work. Im now on my 2nd treatment of Metro. I'll try the Metro for 2 weeks if that doesnt work Im out of options, *** tried everything. Hes going on his 7th week since hes eaten anything. Hes still healthy and very active in the hospital tank. I hope the Metro works but after doing several clout treatments before I doubt Metro will do anything. Poor guy.


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## marigoldkelly95 (Feb 9, 2012)

Mine started eating this past week! Went from brine shrimp, to mysis shrimp, to veggie sinking pellets, and will eat flakes ans everything I give him!! :thumb:

Unfortunately he has really taken to harassing my sunshine. However, when the sunshine challenges back, I do have to admit its fun to watch!

I'm sorry your guy is still having problems. Metro, salt, crunchy food, and patience[/img] seem to help me. :fish:


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## marigoldkelly95 (Feb 9, 2012)

You have also raised the temperature with your treatment, right? I'm just double checking. Also, metro is light sensitive. Do have your tank covered? I put a dark sheet over mine while treating. Just a thought.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Yes lights were out while I was treating with Metro. Metro didnt work either. I always raised the temps to about 83Ã‚Â° when I was medicating him. I read the raise in temp would help boost their immune system but since it didnt seem to work the temp is back at 79Ã‚Â°.

Its been well over 2 months now since hes eaten and hes still act and looks perfectly healthy. He swims around in the 10g, he belly is NOT sunken in. Theres no weird spots / growths / damage of any kind. I'll drop in 4-5 pellets and he wont even attempt to eat them?

I dont get it? I havent treated him with any meds for about 3 weeks now, just 2-3 WCs a week. I have a sponge from one of my maxi-jets that I use on the intake strainer in the 10g and theres been no bowel movements so I dont know what else to do other than keep doing WCs and adding a few pellets every day. I end up having to suck them out with a turkey baster so I dont foul the water up.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

How do you know he is not eating?


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Because there was no poop what so ever and the pellets I put in the tank would be at the bottom of the 10g swollen up and none were gone. For anyone that says NLS does not swell up thats not true, they DO swell up.

Unfortunately my little guy passed away this morning. I was doing a WC in my 125g and I looked below the stand to check up on him and he was sucked against the sponge on my filter intake.


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