# South American Tank...



## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

I am thinking about converting my 48 X 18 X 18 tank to SA biotype... I want to keep dwarf species...

I have Apistogramma Borelli and Bolivian Rams in mind...

What else can I keep with them and in what M:F ratios?


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## Z90a (Sep 25, 2011)

with rams a 1m/2f is best in my experiance of cource my tank is only 30gallon, so you could keep more but the ratio would still work. with apistos i dont know but am actually looking into getting they when i get out basic training.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

thanks Z90a but I want to know how many species I can keep in the tank and which ones and what should be there M:F rations???


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

3 pairs of rams or a quartet of apistos (1m 3f). You could also mix and match a bit, but two species is the most I'd put in a 4 foot tank.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

Just 2 species in a 4 foot tank???

Are they more aggressive than the Mbunas??? they said I could keep upto 4 species in this sized tank...


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## Z90a (Sep 25, 2011)

keeping several apisto species in that tank would likly acure in cross breeding in species. this is not a good idea.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

what about keeping a pair of Yellow Acara with 3 Ram pairs and a quartet of Apistos???

Is this doable???


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Female apistos require about a square foot of territory each, and a few inches of dither space is highly recommended. Also, I didn't mean three pairs of rams AND a quartet of apistos. I meant one OR the other. If you want to mix the two species, I'd do a pair of rams and a trio of apistos; 2 pairs of rams and a trio if you want to take a bit of a risk.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

IC...

So no Yellow Acaras or can I fit them in too???


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I wouldn't try it... Angels or something that isn't a bottom dweller would work, but more bottom dwelling cichlids is probably a bad idea as they'll soon run out of space. Also, with dwarves like rams and apistos, much of the joy of keeping them comes from their behaviour towards members of the same species. You wouldn't believe how little female apistos tolerate each other.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

so 4 Rams and a trio of Apistos it is...

even though I feel that just 7 small fish is a bit less for this sized tank...


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Trust me, the apistos may be small, but their territorial needs are not. I put two female A. baenschi into a 20H to get a pair, and one day they were fine, the next day I came home from school to find that the male has chosen a female, and the spare was dead.

There is one way that you could put dozens of apistos into a 48 by 18 tank, but it's not recommended for beginners.

PS: you can keep other fish (tetras, catfish, angelfish, etc), just not other bottom dwelling cichlids.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

and what is that way BelieveInBlue???


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

A leaf litter biotope; 6-8 inches of leaf litter in that sized tank should allow for 3-4 dozen apistos. However, you won't see most of them except at feeding time, and the leaf litter must be changed every few weeks. Getting enough suitable leaves to keep up with changing the leaves also takes a LONG time, as dried hardwood leaves are what you want for this type of tank. Like I said, it's not a method that I recommend for beginners, especially considering the work involved, and the fact that you'll see the fish maybe 15 minutes a day.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

would the leaves not get tumbled around all over the tank due to filter outlets???

What leaves would you suggest???

I guess whatever leaves you suggest they should be dry leaves not green ones???


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Yes dry leaves (oak, maple, etc). I turn down the flow and angle it so that it points away from the bottom. Like I said before though, this is NOT recommended for beginners.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

well that depends on what your definition of a beginner is... I have been keeping fish for over 12 years and have been keeping cichlids for over a year now but yes for SA cichlids I am a beginner...


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I mean someone with little to no experience with SA dwarves. Even I had troubles keeping a leaf litter tank; water changes and leaf litter changes are too much trouble considering how much time I had.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

IC...

I am thinking about trying the setup... the only problem I see is getting a regular supply of leaves...


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

BelieveInBlue do you have any pics of this kind of a setup???


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

monisaab said:


> IC...
> 
> I am thinking about trying the setup... the only problem I see is getting a regular supply of leaves...


Big part of why I took down that tank  And no, not that I know of; I got rid of my old computer, along with most of the pictures on there. Try searching this forum; I remember someone on here had (has?) a leaf litter set up.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

ok... thanks...

what do you currently have???


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## regani (Feb 13, 2011)

here is an example of a tank using leaf litter:










they are not really difficult to maintain. choose dry leaves that are slow to break down (e.g. oak), soak in water until they sink (may take a couple of days), treat with some bleach followed by dechlorinator if you are wooried about bugs, rinse and scatter about the tank.
just top up with more leaves every now and then. there is no need to get rid of the mulm that is formed by the decaying leaves, it actually provides plenty of surface for microorganisms that very young fry munch on and other useful bacteria. 
if the mulm gets too much for you after a few months, just lift out most of the leaves and siphon the majority of the mulm, put the leaves back in, done.
you can have thicker layers of leaves than shown in the picture above, just depends on what you like. I would leave some areas of fine sand, though, as that encourages natural behaviour - apistos are bottom sifters, after all.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

thanks a lot regani, for the pic and detailed info...

leaving the mulm sounds like a good idea... thanks again...


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

Luckily I have a handful of oak trees on my property, and so every autumn I have a huge supply of leaves. :thumb:

I just take what I want to use, boil for a few minutes, then dry and store or place right in my tank. As mentioned, dry leaves will take a couple days to settle top the bottom. Boiling takes care of any organisms and removes much of the tannins.

You definitely see more of the fish's natural behavior with a leaf litter.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

thanks kenko... looks as if I'll have to find some Oak trees here...


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## catfish crazy joe (Oct 30, 2011)

Why do something so difficult when the recommended stocking would be really entertaining especially if you add some cories and tetras?


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

It's not really that difficult...relatively speaking.

Plus you do get to see unique behaviors that you may not otherwise see, especially if you have fish that originate from floodplains. One of my wild Maculatus can be seen pulling at the leaves sometimes. I have no idea why, but it's something I've not seen from the others... I think he may be trying to rearrange things slightly, but interesting nonetheless.


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## catfish crazy joe (Oct 30, 2011)

it sounds like a cool tank but possibly a lot of work, good luck.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

I have already started collecting leaves...


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

I have bought a couple of types of Apistos and am already enjoying them...

Just wanted to ask if the RO units selling on ebay at around $150 good enough to do the job for the tank requirements?


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

oh come on folks...

there must be lots of people keeping the Apistos... what do I do??? use the tap water or buy an RO unit from ebay that costs around $150???


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## regani (Feb 13, 2011)

depends on what your tap water is like. have you measured GH, KH and pH of your tap water? if you are in a soft water area youmay not need a RO unit.
it will also depend on the species of apistogramma that you have, some are more demanding when it comes to water conditions than others


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

thanks regani...

I have Baenschi and Cacatuoides...


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## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

Some lfs will sell r/o mine does for .50¢ per gal. Good luck!


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

thanks bluejack23...

I'll see if mine sells too and if he does what does he charge per gallon...


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## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

No prob. I use r/o but I buffer it good luck!


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## regani (Feb 13, 2011)

the A. cactuoides are fairly robust and tolerate a wider range of water conditions. they can be bred even in moderately hard water with pH of 7.5.

the A. baenschi are a soft water fish, they will require very soft water with pH about 6 for successful breeding. they can be kept in harder water of higher pH, but they won't do well and will be more suceptible to disease with likely shorter life span.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

thanks regani...

I am keeping them in separate tanks...


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

What about filtration? Do I need activated carbon for either of them?


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

woah this is an old thread... I remember this from before I took a break 

To answer your question, no. You really don't need activated carbon ever IMO, unless you've recently medicated, and now wish to remove said medication from the water quickly.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

lol... yes an old thread indeed...

No I have not used any medications, it was just that I was at the LFS a couple of days ago and saw the activated carbon packs for my filter and I was wondering if that is something that I should be using....


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I haven't used carbon since the last time my fish had ick, which was probably 9, maybe 10, months ago, and so far the fish have shown no signs that the lack of carbon's affecting them; they're all as greedy as ever.


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## monisaab (Jan 12, 2011)

gud to know... my fish are doing well too... eating well and keeping well... I've never used activated carbon so thought it wise to ask the experts...


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