# Bloat Symptom Timeline?



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

I was wondering if there is an order that the symptoms of bloat usually follow, ie. 1st - not eating-hiding, 2nd bloating up, 3rd eyes bulging etc....

I know that not all cases will be the same but with the case that I am dealing with, it just seemed weird that the fish had both eyes bulging when I got him, and by the time I got home (15 min drive) he seemed to bloat up quite substantially. Now I am not sure if the bloating is something that is suppose to take a while to happen or if it is usually that aggressive?

I am thinking bloat because of lack of appetite, swelling, bulging eyes, and poo that was clear and thin as a peice of hair.

Just trying to be prepared for anything like that may happen in they future, and since I have no way of knowing how long it has been exhibiting these symptoms before I got him. I just wanna be prepared for anything that could happen with my fish to increase my chances of catching it ASAP!


----------



## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi

This is the timeline as I know it--although you're quite right that not all cases will be the same.

First the fish starts spitting out food. You may or may not see clear or white long stringy feces. The fish stops eating. It may gasp. It will become lethargic and hide. Towards the end it gets a bloated belly. It may take a week or two for these symptoms to play out. If this occurs in a tank with other fish typically the other fish will seem fine but then, often right about the time the first fish dies another fish will start to show symptoms.

Is the new fish still alive? I would keep it in a hospital tank--away from any of your other fish. He has enough bloat symptoms for you to treat him for Bloat. Like you say, you don't have all the history of this fish so you should err(treat) on the side of safety.

Jungle Parasite Clear is a good med to treat with. Or you may want to go with straight methondizole. If you choose the latter go with the treatment you find here: 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php
rather than the package directions.

Robin


----------



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks Robin, Yes I do have the fish in a QT 10g tank by himself, and have started the treatment posted on here with Clout. I am on day 2 of this treatment and tomorrow in my "do nothing" day.

One other question I have is once the actual bloating of the fish occurs is common for the fish to swell up a lot in a matter of hours?

Is the bulging of the eyes common with bloat or is this a case of popeye along with the bloat?


----------



## stefan88 (Jul 3, 2002)

Have you guys ever looked into using borax (sodium borate) or colloidal silver as a treatment for bloat/parasites?

There isn't much info on these 2 products.. Saltwater guys use borax on there tanks for ph and hardness.. On a side note borax is used as a natural remedie to kill parasites in the human body.. I have used it in my fish tank to raise ph and have experienced no ill effects or unhealthy fish..

Colloidal silver supposedly has been tested on 600+ viruses fungus and parasites.. Pretty much kills anything.. Have read some info that it will not kill the good bacteria in the tank.. Something I have also added to my tank and haven't noticed any ill effects..

Just some thoughts.. Not really into all the meds out there.. They really seem to disrupt the tanks bacteria load..


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

> Not really into all the meds out there.. They really seem to disrupt the tanks bacteria load..


an easy fix for that is to 1: turn off one of your filters (assuming you have more than one which personaly think is a must) so it doesnt kill the bacteria in the biological media and 2: take your sponge filter (assuming you have one as i do on every one of my tanks) and put it in a diff tank to keep the culture seeded and then put it back when you are done.. i tend to have twice or 3 or 4 times the bio-load capacity on each tank jus so that never happens


----------



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

Anyone have the eyes bulge with bloat in their fish? Seems the eyes are almost back to normal and want to say (at least would like to think) that the actual bloating is seeming to come down a little from last night.

One other thing that looked positive is that last night the fish had almost no color to it at all, and now it is looking to darken up some along the dorsal fin on his back.

I still thinking positive about the situation and hoping for a full recovery!! :-?


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

pics?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have had the bulging eyes with a bloated fish, but not every case...just occasionally.

Sounds promising!


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

i have one eureka red with a weird lookin eye.. but its always looked that way.. i think its jus a genetic abnormalicty and i looked at it really close and it jus looks like the inside black part (iris i think?) of the eye is just smaller than the outside part so it looks weird its not actually bug eyed


----------



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

Here just took this one. Still hiding from me when I open the tank, but does seem to move around a bit. When i put the rock back on the sponge filter to keep it down he darted over to the other back corner so he still has alittle spunk left in him.


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

all mine that died of bloat eventually didnt even run.. theyd stay at the top and let u touch them or jus stay at the bottom... i had a few die... then i treated my 125 with clout as per robins article and havent had an issue since


----------



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

m1ke715m said:


> all mine that died of bloat eventually didnt even run.. theyd stay at the top and let u touch them or jus stay at the bottom... i had a few die... then i treated my 125 with clout as per robins article and havent had an issue since


Thanks for the words of confidence! I am following that treatment right now. On day 3 of it and its hard to "do nothing". I want to keep checking on him but have only been doing it a couple times a day otherwise I have been leaving the lights off and the door shut on the stand so he doesnt get bothered.


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

what kind of fish is that?


----------



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

A Yellow Tailed Acei. Have you had a fish have bulging eyes go along with Bloat? Or think it was popeye and bloat together?


----------



## stefan88 (Jul 3, 2002)

m1ke715m said:


> > Not really into all the meds out there.. They really seem to disrupt the tanks bacteria load..
> 
> 
> an easy fix for that is to 1: turn off one of your filters (assuming you have more than one which personaly think is a must) so it doesnt kill the bacteria in the biological media and 2: take your sponge filter (assuming you have one as i do on every one of my tanks) and put it in a diff tank to keep the culture seeded and then put it back when you are done.. i tend to have twice or 3 or 4 times the bio-load capacity on each tank jus so that never happens


Yea thats cool dude.. I'm sure it works.. But in the end your still killing alot of bacteria.. For one turning your filters off and depriving them of oxygen is going to result in a somewhat of a loss.. Any bacteria in the tank on sand rocks etc will be gone as well.. I think finding natural methods of treating your pets is the best route.. Because you can't put a patent on something natural there is no reason for a company to do actual research.. There are alot of articles out there on colloidal silver.. People do use it in there fish tanks and for there pets.. Just trying to turn some people on to it..

Imo meds aren't ment to cure, just treat... Going with something natural over man made just makes more sense to me


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If there is something natural, that would be great. But if you have to resort to meds, the good news is I have not ever had meds kill off all my bacteria. Even the ones that say this will happen.


----------



## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> One other question I have is once the actual bloating of the fish occurs is common for the fish to swell up a lot in a matter of hours?
> 
> Is the bulging of the eyes common with bloat or is this a case of popeye along with the bloat?


I honestly don't know if the bloating will come on that fast. As far as the popeye goes: it is a symptom you hear associated with bloat but it may be a situation where the fish has gotten bloat due to poor water conditions, which is also the 'breeding ground' for popeye, or it could be that when fish's immune system is lowered from one illness they just become prone to other illnesses.

How's the fish doing today?

Robin


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

> For one turning your filters off and depriving them of oxygen is going to result in a somewhat of a loss


well i usually run one filter and turn the other off.. i usually have a hob and a canister on each tank so i turn the canister off cuz its a pain to open and take the carbon pad out... the hob runs but even if you turned that off as well i have 6-8 aeration points with bubbles in every tank so that makes enough surface aggitation to not deprive the fish of oxygen.. i had my fluval **** out for a week or so while i was waiting on parts and a 125 was fine with no dead loss with just a marineland 350 and 2 big sponge filters. my friend only runs sponge filters on his tanks 55 and under and hes fine


----------



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

@Robin - He is still kicking, Eyes look much better and about to do the 80% wc and treat again with Clout. looks like the swelling has receded a little but not much. Hoping that the final days of treatment will help him.

If after the 6 days of treating he is still bloated should start treating over again or just wait a few days and see what happens? Dont know if it is safe to redo the treatment or if that will over stress the fish too much.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Robin said:


> > As far as the popeye goes: it is a symptom you hear associated with bloat but it may be a situation where the fish has gotten bloat due to poor water conditions


I've read pop-eye is a symptom (just swollen eyes) as opposed to a separate disease. But my theory on bulging eyes with bloat is...intestinal blockage causes body fluid retention and overall body swelling. It makes sense to me that eyes can swell too. It's really the tissues around the eyes that are swelling, not the eyeball itself.


----------



## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> If after the 6 days of treating he is still bloated should start treating over again or just wait a few days and see what happens? Dont know if it is safe to redo the treatment or if that will over stress the fish too much.


Good question/concern. I'd give it a couple days once the treatment has finished and see how the fish is. Do a few partial water changes during the rest days. Medications are great but they do add more stress. With some meds you just want to use them long enough to get the fish to the point where his own immune system can take over. Difficult to say when a med can work against that goal. 
If the fish is no longer bloated after the rest I'd give him a very small amount of food--just as test to see if he can eat. 
Did you do any Epsom salt with the treatment? If not then do so. 1tablespoon per 5 gallons. Dissolve it first and add it gradually over several hours time and keep that level consistent throughout any partial water changes.

If the fish is still bloated then you should treat again after a few days. You can treat again with Clout or you might try Jungle Parasite Clear or straight metronidazole. Many people feel that Clout is harsh on fish so that's one reason to switch it up and also sometimes a slightly different med will do the trick.

Let us know how it goes

Robin


----------



## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

DJRansome said:


> Robin said:
> 
> 
> > > As far as the popeye goes: it is a symptom you hear associated with bloat but it may be a situation where the fish has gotten bloat due to poor water conditions
> ...


Sounds good. I've only had a case of bloat once with my tanks and the fish blew a hole out of his side.


----------



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

I am doing the clout treatment right now, but will try the Jungle Parasite Clear next if needed. Do I use the treatment for clout but sub the Jungle stuff instead?

If he is eating in a few days should i try feeding him soaked food?

Yes I have adding Epsom salt since I got him to help draw out the excess fluids.

And finally thank you everyone for the help/advice! It is very much appreciated.

Ben


----------



## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

xxbenjamminxx said:


> I am doing the clout treatment right now, but will try the Jungle Parasite Clear next if needed. Do I use the treatment for clout but sub the Jungle stuff instead?
> 
> If he is eating in a few days should i try feeding him soaked food?
> 
> ...


I'd fit in as many partial water changes as you can but other than that I'd just follow the JPC package directions. 
If he starts eating you could feed him med food--I'd still feed on the light side if he's at all iffy.

And on behalf of everyone Ben, you're welcome.  I've noticed and appreciated your input to the forum. Always positive and supportive and happy to share your experience with others.

Robin


----------



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

One more question, when you say to fit in as many extra water changes as possible is that after the final day (day 6) to give the meds a chance to work for a full 24 hours?

So basically how long after the final treatment of clout would you start fitting in these extras WC's?


----------



## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Once you finish the Clout I'd wait a couple of days before doing a WC. 
With JPC: well basically you follow the package directions but I would do a large one just before starting treatment and then once you finish wait a couple of days and do another. If you do two rounds of the JPC do a large partial water change between treatments. Basically you're just working around your medication schedule.

Robin


----------



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks, with way he is improving I think i might just wait a few days and see if he continues getting better before I go ahead and med him anymore. Color is coming back, eating, and pooing a normal color now! Also today is the 2nd day that he at without spitting it out. Been feeding him very lightly tho once a day.


----------



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

Well got another pic of him. Considering coming from what he was, a white swimming pop-eyed ballon, to this I think I can say that Bloat Treatment works wonders!!

Here he is now

















Before:


----------



## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

=D> Congratulations and kudos for a job well done :thumb:


----------

