# green terror maturity age?



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

When do these guys start to really color up? Mine is roughly 3 inches and I've had him for probably 7 months and he is just now starting to grow and add size. The blue on his face, dorsal, and anal fins are vibrant as is the orange on his tail and dorsal fin. He has started to darken up on the sides but I haven't seen that green terror partern I want yet.
My tank is a 55 and the water is kept at 81 degrees, the ammonia is zero, my nitrites never get above .5 and my nitrates never get above 20. He is second in the pecking order behind a monster jd(he is my peaceful large fish and only proves dominance when needed). But my terror is the most actively aggressive fish. 
The feeding consists of hikari bio-gold, hikari staple, fresh peas, and raw shrimp as treats.
And yes I know my tank is probably overstocked, I have a 40 gallon waiting for when the fish have to be seperated.
Thanks for the help!!


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

You should not have any nitrite readings. If you have nitrites, your tank is not cycled yet.

What size did you buy your gold saum at? If you've had it 7 months and it's only 3 inches TL, that sounds like it's growing increadibly slow, and doesn't sound right.

A gold saum should have green markings on it's face, not blue. That's (partly) why they're called Green Terrors and not Blue acaras.

Tank temperature sounds pretty high. I would think a temperature around 76-78 would be more acceptable.

Without listing all the fish in your tank, how are we to know if it's overstocked or not!

Finally, without photos, it's harder for us to help you out.


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

I purchased the gt from petsmart when it was maybe an inch, and he is closer to 4 inches actually. I was able to measure him and not guess. As far as being overstocked, I figured a jd and gt was too much for a 55 as it is. There are also 5 giant danios in the mix and a red shoulder peacock who is being housed i n my tank temporarily. I will lower the temp a little bit and see what that does. Would the gt not being the most dominate fish in the tank effect its coloring?
And I'll get pics up as soon as I can get a decent shot.


----------



## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

I know people house GTs with JDs in 55g (4ft) tanks routinely. If you put the red should in the 40 you have, I don't see why the two giants can't stay together.

Definitely lower the temp--76-78. 
Make sure those nitrites stay at 0. The nitrites could be keeping it from coloring up well.

What's your water change schedule?

I've had my GT for about a year (from a petco), and it was a little squirt (1" or under). Looked like trash :lol: Now she's 4.5" maybe 5" and really colorful (lots of red on the tail and spangles). As far as I've seen (in comparison to my JD in another tank), my GT grew much slower. I've only had the JD two months and it has more than doubled in size. So, I don't think your fish is growing too slow.

That said, maturity should occur anywhere from 2-4". If it's male, the nuchal (forehead bump) should develop around then. I know some people have had it grow later than that though (5-7")--depends on the fish.


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

Well I don't have to worry about the peacock anymore, my gt killed it last night and now the gt has a little better coloring. My question is should I change the water now that there was a dead fish in the tank? I changed it last night before he was killed. As far as my schedule I do 30% changes every 5 days and use stress coat as the treatment.
I was concerned that the gt is just a slow growe because I got him a week after I got my dempsey and my dempsey is pushing 7 inches now.
So you really think its possible for em to live together? My jack is super peaceful unless the terror steps out of line, then my jack puts him in his place.


----------



## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

GT and JD is a common stocking. As long as the aggression is manageable. Bullying may occur--since the JD is bigger. But as long as you don't see a lot of ripped fins on one fish and too much chasing, I think it'd be fine. In the long run, you may need a bigger tank, especially if the JD and GT both reach their max size (11-14 inches).

Do you know the sexes of each? Two males will do worse together than two females (females also don't get as big).

JDs grow like overnight :lol: My GT took longer. Your GT should color up though. That is unusual. You were probably overstocked with the peacock, so maybe it'll get better now.

I'm not surprised it killed the peacock. Peacocks are relatively peaceful (for africans). Is there debris from the peacock floating around? It's not like it died of disease which would warrant a WC. As long as the water's clear and the nitrite level is 0, it should be fine.

You might want to do 50% WC/ week. What filtration do you have? If you're way overfiltering, you could be OK with 30%. But these are two big fish that produce a lot of waste (as do all cichlids).


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

I plan on getting a 75 gallon around december, and then either a 120 or 125 gallon when I move out of my house.
My jd is definately a male, there is no doubt about that one. The gt is a male I think based on what I've read about them. I will post pics as soon as I find my camera lol. And yea the peacock died from being killed and there were no remains floating anywhere.
As far as filtration, I have a 350gph marineland biowheel running my tank along a 170gph powerhead for water movement, I do have another mairneland filter that is identical to my other one, I was considering adding it on since its not being used at the moment. 
As far as aggression, I will keep my eyes on the tank. It is a fairly peaceful tank, I only had one incident were the gt picked a fight with my jd and the gt lost half his lips. Those have healed up all the way and the gt leaves my jd alone now. Then the death of course.
I was considering making the 55 a bredding tank and finding a female dempsey for my monster and setting up the 40 for my gt. I realize the 40 isn't ideal for him, but he is still a little guy.


----------



## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

4" isn't little :wink: I would wait till you get the bigger tank--give that to the JD pair and keep the GT in the 55. You can use the 40 for a fry/grow-out tank. Fry don't need a 55. The 40 could only be a short-term temporary option for the GT (a few weeks at most).

The pair would breed in the 75+ main and you'd move the fry over to the 40 once they have hatched. Or move the pair with the eggs into the 40. I wouldn't move them before they breed because the move can upset them and lengthen if not completely halt the breeding process.

Filtration sounds good to me.


----------



## smitty (May 7, 2004)

Also remember some of what you will get depends on the parents.


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)




----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

I have a 50/50 light as well to add on the blues.
Sorry i was not able to get the best pictures


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

And if someone could help verify the sex on my gt and maybe clear up if it is a gold saum or blue acara that would be awesome!
Thanks


----------



## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

I'd say definitely male JD (lack of spots at second gill plate), and most likely male GT (going by pointed fin). I'd say gold saum too (judging by coloring). Blue acara (pulcher) looks similar in the profile, but if you search for more photos (in google--be careful as some are obviously not the pulcher variety) to get a better variety, it looks very different.


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

Awesome, thank you so much for all your help!
Any idea on why my gt isn't colorful yet? Maybe still young and color will come later?


----------



## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

You lowered the temp and are checking your nitrite level daily? Make sure those remain at 0, and keep doing daily water changes till it does.

The color should come after that. Though some fish don't have the best genetics--the breedline is weak and they just don't get as colorful. Hopefully, he'll color up, but you'll have to wait and see.

What do you feed him?


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I wouldn't be so sure he is a he.

Can you take a better photo of the vent area. Also a lot the photos are very blue, anyway that you can take photos with just a white light over the tank?


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

Yea, I will throw my other light on and get some photos up when I get the chance. What is the best way to get a photo of their vent? Just net him and hold it upside down? 
Out of curiousity what makes it appear to be female? The lack of color?

Also, I am slowly lowering the temp in the tank. As far as my water I do believe that my tank is cycled and I can't read the test strips too well. The tank has been up and running for 7 months, I would assume its cycled by now.
As far as feeding, I feed hikari bio-gold and staple as their main diet, with peas about 2 to 3 times a week. The fish get raw shrimp as a treat every 2 weeks, and frozen foods such as krill and bloodworms once a week.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Catching and holding it upside down is the best way to vent sex a fish.

I'm unsure if it's male of female. It has very thin stripes along the edge of it's fins, that is a characteristic of female gold saums. It also has a pointed anal fin and the dorsal fin looks pointed and has the beginnings of a fin trailer, these are characteristics of male cichlids. So I'm unsure of the sex.


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

Awesome, thank you so much for clearing this up! If this matters, since its killing of the peacock it has become more aggressive, attacking my one fake plant and flaring up a cameras near the tank. He/she also chases my danios more, but still hasn't messed with my dempsey lol.
I will get pics up tomorrow, is there a easier way to catch this fish? He is so fast, and even when its sleeping it will run from the net. I have tried catching him before and it took forever lol


----------



## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

I've rarely had success sexing substrate spawners by venting. Mouth-brooders have more obvious shapes, but since GTs lay eggs the vent opening tends to be smaller and more ambiguous, IME. But it is something you can try.


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

Alright, so my water is sitting at 78 and the water levels are perfect now! My gt has started to show some of the pattern that they get and I'm happy about that. But I have a problem, my jd looks like ****. He is a lot more pale now instead of that rich purple base coat, and his spots aren't as vibrant. Now he just chills out and lays in the bottom corner of my tank most of the time and is very jumpy. I have read they don't like changes in a tank and they take a long time to adjust. Is this probably what's happening and I'm overreacting?
He eats fine, normal poo, etc.


----------



## JCsicklidnewbie (Mar 8, 2010)

Your JD might be responding to the temp change especially if you went from 81 to 78 by turning the knob and not a gradual process. Nonetheless he should be fine unless other parameters have changed. My JD doesn't seem to like light very much..just a thought. With regards to your GT. If it's a male I'd be surprised your JD wasn't attacking him constantly. I've had my share of GTs and JD and I will say the females grow much slower and your fish's growth rate is similar to my main GT female. She is 5 inches and I've had her about a year now and I know she's a female because she laid eggs. My male GT was 6 inches in about four months and I got him at 1.5in. And my JDs and GTs never got along...females attacked females and males attacked males (different tanks now). My 2 cents.


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

No, I lowered the temp from 81-78 over 2 days, so it was a gradual change.
Here is the story of the fish: I started out with a 40 gallon breeder tank, I then bought the jd thinking it was a gt because they were in the same tank and about an inch and a half long. About 2 weeks later I realized it was a jd, so I bought the gt as well. When they were first introduced the jd was very aggressive to my gt attacking him constantly but it only resulted in torn fins and the jd would not let the gt eat, they lived that way for 3 months and my jd doubled in size, while the gt remained small. I upgraded them to a 55 and jd calmed down a lot but still grew really fast. Well in the last few months the jd calmed down even more and the gt has eaten more, the gt has grown probably an inch and a half in the last 2 months. The jd has not shown aggression for no reason, but only when the gt steps out of place. So I have had the fish a total of 7 months.
So yea the jd use to attack a lot, I'm thinking the gt coloring up late could have been a result of his life until now. 
My gt is far more active on a daily basis, he is always swimming around but won't go pester the jd. My jd prefers to either just chill out and maybe sleep because he has laid on the gravel like its sleeping. But when he comes swimming around the gt gets out of his way.
Sorry about a long post


----------



## JCsicklidnewbie (Mar 8, 2010)

Ok got it. Still sounds like your GT is a female. JDs are bad when they're young but as the get older and they settle down so it's like weathering the storm for the GT but if your GT is a male when it gets any amount of size over your JD he will kill him or at least try. When I mixed they stopped at nothing and I mean caudal fins completely gone and patches of scales but they were also in opposite sex battles so that may be why it was a bit more intense. I say you vent the fish. Growth rate still sounds slow for a male but if it's playing a non-dominant role then it's possible. Will take time but the GT will grow and show nice coloring around 5 to 6 inches. When my GTs where little I couldn't tell if they were runts or acaras but all the ones I questioned where females and my three males grew at the rate my JDs grew but that means nothing to you just trying to give you information to compare to your situation. Have you tried different foods? My male GT loves the mealworms from Petco but becareful with live foods if you haven't dealt with them before....they introduce different pathogens so it may be safer to stick to pellets...I also use the massivore and carnivore with my GT. Anyway..best of luck...hopefully I helped in some fashion. sorry for the long post.


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

You did help me so thank you very much! I figured I should get the whole story out so people could determine if the gt not being dominate decreased size/color.
As far as live food, the gt doesn't stand a chance. The dempsey will get all of em before the gt even notices they are there, and when the gt notices the live food, its like he/she has no interest at all in it.


----------



## JCsicklidnewbie (Mar 8, 2010)

Yeah I had the same issue...JDs are greedy when they're growing but once his growth rate slows he will not respond as fast either. Regarding your GT....what I did to get mine to go for live ... first it has to fit in his/her mouth or at least seem feasible to the fish. But if you don't feed them for a couple of days maybe 2 or 3 when you drop something in the tank your gt should be hungry enough where it will come out and compete but you can help it by scattering and if that doesn't work do it again...after a week and only being fed twice your gt should try it. 
best of luck


----------



## sirnewb (Dec 3, 2010)

So you're saying that once my jd gets fully grown he will be lame? Well that sucks! They are beautiful fish though lol. And sounds good, I have access to convict fry whenever my neighbors fish breed lol. How long can fish go without eating? Not feeding em for three days sounds rough, I know I would not be happy after 3 days without food lol.


----------



## JCsicklidnewbie (Mar 8, 2010)

I've done 5 days but that was with oscars. 3 days is the longest I went without feeding my JD and GTs. But I only do that when I'm trying to get them to accept new foods....my JD is very picky about what he eats now that he's 8 inches...he only eats about once a day and if its something he doesnt like he will pass. Again, this is just my practice...not saying this is the only method in fact Im not saying that you should try this..Im just letting you know what I do that works for me. Dont worry your JD wont be lame because as that GT grows (if its male) he will have to be on gaurd constantly.


----------

