# General questions and Can you have too few fish?



## BonesCJ (Nov 30, 2015)

I'm setting up my first cichlid tank (Mbuna) after years of Planted and Reef tanks.

Its tough to believe the stocking numbers I keep seeing for African Cichlid tanks! especially after keeping SW Reef tanks. I converted my 90 reef /w 20 sump to a Mbuna style tank with aragonite substrate, two big hunks of driftwood and 15-20 good sized rocks for scaping. Here is my current fish list, as best I can tell 

definitive --
1 Electric yellow Lab
1 Demasoni
2 bumblebee

tentative -- Got these out of the "Assorted" tank from Petsmart
2 red zebra
1 yellow lab
1 individual with horizontal blue\black striping

I keep reading that stocking levels for my setup should be in the 20-25 fish range but that just seems too many, can I add another 8 and keep it at 16 cichlids?

Should I try to get more of the same species I have now are can I expand? Acai or Socolofi for example
I also plan to add Java ferns and Anubias to the tank, any feedback welcome
Any reason I cannot add a Pictus cat? Had one in a planted tank but he kept eating my smaller tetras  
Also are there any other kinds of fish I could add? such as Giant Danios or bigger Tetras?

Thanks to any responses!


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Well, difficult question. Male Mbunas need multi females, or no females. Each male will need at least 3-5 females of it's own species to be safe. They can and will breed with other females if none of their own are available (and even sometimes when enough of their own females are available). If there are not enough females available, the males will hound/chase and attack females to death. Males of the same color will not get along, they will fight for dominance. 
And this is just the begining.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Assuming your 90G is 48"x18" rectangle?

If you are doing one-of-each, all-male, no look-alikes then I like 12 individuals in that tank size. I've never done it with mbuna (only haps and peacocks).

If you are doing mixed genders of peaceful, mbuna (not demasoni, not crabro a.k.a.bumblebee) then 4 species with 1m:4f of each is workable.

Demasoni are difficult to keep and thrive in large groups...I like 20 in a 48x18.

Crabro are large/aggressive...if stocking those I'd limit to 3 species and stock other aggressive fish. I've never kept them because of the adult brown-black coloration.


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## BonesCJ (Nov 30, 2015)

So it sounds like the first thing i need to do is get those two bumblebees out of the tank. Are the zebras and elec yellow labs cool to leave in? Should i get more of those two species? And what about albino socolofi's? Or acei? Trying for a more laid back mbuna setup


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

You shold get more of the zebras and labs, but not more males. More females yes. Albino Socolofis would be good, again, 1 male and many females. Acei get a little big, so no.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Have you decided to go mixed gender or all male one of each no look alikes?


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## BonesCJ (Nov 30, 2015)

Going to go with Mixed gender, seems like that is a great way to see the natural interactions cichlids are so well known for. I got the two bumblebee's out (could not catch the Demasoni) and will definitely add more of the Zebra's and Elec Labs. Still debating on what additional species to add, does anyone have any suggestions? I've already got red and yellow for colors...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Think in terms of 4 species and 1m:4f of each. Then you may need to tweak depending on the species you choose. Electric yellow lab and yellow lab are both the same right? Black dorsal stripe on both?

Choose species 3 and 4 from other genera (not Metriaclima or Labidochromis). Choose fish that don't look like the labs or estherae. Pseudotropheus acei and Iodotropheus sprengerae would be good options.

Look for a good LFS that specializes in Africans and avoid the assorted tank...unlabeled fish can be hybrids. Or order online from a reputable vendor.


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## BonesCJ (Nov 30, 2015)

So I am thinking I will go with Electric yellow labs, Red Zebras and Acei, 5-6 of each. I've got a Local fish store that should be able to order me in at least the right type of fish, getting the proper number of each sex as I understand is often a matter of ordering a certain amount and getting rid of the extra males as needed.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Note labs and zebras crossbreed, so don't save fry. If you are going to have just the 3 species in your tank I'd shoot for 1m:7f of each. Buy 14 unsexed juveniles.


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