# this is my rant - does anyone feel the same?



## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

i have recently gotten grief for having a large strawberry pot in my tank. yes it may not be in lake malawi, but my fish love it. and it seems to me that by everyone wanting a certain look ie. just a bunch of rocks stacked. . . that in someway are being pressed into this cookie cutter un original tank. well i am the one who sits there at night with the lights off, and i am the one practically nursing my fry (btw they hatched yay!) so is it really original to be contained into this standare blase tank!?!?! i used to think it beautiful but now all seem mundane.. im not saying to have a bobbing treasure chest, or a floating pirate skeleton, but to me fish happiness and practicality IS beautful... just a rant .. love you guys.. how ya feel


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## Aquanist (Dec 29, 2007)

Just to point out that fish aren't actually big fans of decor. Anything offering (even remotely) similar hideouts as they're genetically coded to seems to suffice. And as for determining fish happiness on whether they breed or not is a bit far fetched with malawis. They'll breed as long as water is mostly wet!

If you like the decor then it's ok with me and should be with everyone else as well (if it provides fish the shelter etc they need).

Fish happines and health (in my experience and opinion) derives from good water chemistry which should be adjusted to suite the type of fish kept.


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## @nt!x (Feb 9, 2009)

why do you really care what someone else says.. This is the internets. Its your tank you look at it. Do what makes you happy.


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## B&amp;K (Dec 11, 2008)

Thank you, jfly. Very much agreed. The only thing I think you should keep to yourself is whether or not you have Tiger Barbs in with your Cichlids.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

this is merely an open forum question??  i understand that some may disagree, but often in this forum especially, it is THE WAY the disagreement is presented. i mean why give someone flak for preference, and if im not mistaken, The Fish Guy has terra cotta in his tank and hes the uber fish ****. anyways this is more a post on , i dunno maybe common courtesy


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## mthigpen_02 (Dec 29, 2008)

As long as your fish have places to hide in something that offers somewhat a natural like feature, then I say go for it. There is nothing natural about having pvc, cement covered styrofoam or most of the rocks we use as they are not found in the lakes either.


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## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

yeah man, do what you like. And I think the "grief" that you are referring to is from the "rate the tank above you" thread... correct?

If you put it out there and ask for a response, you have to prepared for what others think.

I agree with aqaunist, the fish aren't going to care what their caves, hiding spots, or decor is made out of... the aquascaping is truly for you and whoever else is looking from the outside of the tank. If you like it the way it is, then leave it...

The reason you got the responses you did is that a large number of us on CF, strive for what you call an "unoriginal" tank... but for us, it's striving for a natural look.

So yeah, our mbuna don't care that we are trying to recreate a natural lake malawi habitat... but I like to do it because I'm trying to recreate a natural ecosystem. I get just as excited about the algae growing on the rocks and the nitrifying bacteria that is an essential part of the ecosystem as I do the fish... I don't keep these fish as pets, but rather I'm trying to put a piece of nature into a 60 gallon tank, so I can enjoy a piece of living, natural art in my home. I understand that this is impossible, but I guess my goal is to get as close as possible.

So don't take the criticism as grief, but if you ask for suggestions or for someone else to rate your tank... you have to be ready for somebody else's opinion... which may not match your own. And if you don't want to hear other's opinions, than keep your tank to yourself.

Congrats on your fry.


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## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

just an added point... in response to...



> so is it really original to be contained into this standare blase tank!?!?! i


and... No... it's not at all original. Nut, for myself at least, I have never claimed my tank to be original. Especially considering that nature (in this case Lake Malawi) is the only one that could be considered "original".


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

actually the grief wasnt just the rate a tank post.. and its NOT natural to me for a pile of granite.. but anyways again, its not about the criticism,, but the way it is relayed.. btw did you ever get ahold of marineland about the biowheels??


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Yeah its all about what you want its your tank. ITs kind of like letting someone else pick your wardrobe for you before you go out. You wouldnt let them do that so why let them try and design your tank.

Different people have different goals.

BUt personally my goal is to have a tank that looks as natural as possible. I would never put a flower pot or terricota in a african cichlids home. I want it too look as much like lake malawi as possible. That is what alot of people try to do with aquariums. Recreat a natural environment. I dont know if you have ever been to any major aquariums but that is what their goal is. If you walk to the malawi exhibit you will notice alot of rocks and boulders. THen if you walk to the south american exhibit you will notice more plants and wood and submurged tree roots.


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## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

I will agree that many people on this site tend to be too harsh and take what should be helpful criticism to an inappropriate level.

In regards to the bio-wheel, go check the other thread, but marinelad actually said that the slit is normal, and they are convinced that it must be a restricted flow issue.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

pottery within a tank of fish, is no different (esthetically), than sweaters and booties for dogs and cats. some don't mind the look...others cringe. i admit to having, and using, a strawberry pot in a few breeding experiments...but i would not put pottery in a show tank. IMHO. (i don't put gnomes in my gardens either.  )


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

agreed"" the way i see it , if its good enough for The Fish Guy good enough for me.. and the rocks to look natural, i see it , but most have them "stragecially placed" and very unnatural looking.. i like the rocks to look as if they fell that way or God placed them that way.. anyhoo the way i see it were all here for the same reason; we LOVE our fish.. that is what should be key


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## sleepy09 (Jan 15, 2009)

I agree Jfly, it is your tank you set it up the way you want to and don't let anyone tell you different. If your fish are happy and you are too then that is all that matters.



> I will agree that many people on this site tend to be too harsh and take what should be helpful criticism to an inappropriate level.


I totally disagree with that mumbo jumbo. I am a member of several fish forums and this is by far the best one when it comes to good advice and friendly people. Most of the time.....well I am not going to go there. I was going to add more to that but I won't. I just know that I have read thru tons of threads on this site and your information is disagreeable. I can probably count on both hands out of the millions of threads on this site where you will see anything like what you say. You might read someones advice as inappropriate criticism and I would read it as a direct answer to the question.


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## sleepy09 (Jan 15, 2009)

I found the thread http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... &start=600 that I think started this and it looks like it was the Rate the tank above you thread. If some is going to post a picture of their tank in a thread that was setup for people to make comments about (good or bad) their tank, why get upset when one or two people make stupid comments or tell you want they think? I guess I am not understanding the idea of posting something in that thread.

I am sorry if I am getting carried away with this topic it just tics me off when someone gets mad about something this trivial and then wants to post another thread in a section of the forum that it doesn't belong in. All this does is make the rest of us look bad.


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## VT4Me (Mar 23, 2008)

Agreed with all that said if you put your tank up to be rated you have to live with the rating that it is given. Also agree that it's entirely up to you how you aquascape and the only things that matter are the happiness of you and your fish.

The problem I see with any forum is the same problem that affects all e-correspondence. Writing something down and saying face to face exactly the same thing can often come across as two completely different things. Someone passing comment or criticism on an issue face to face is often easier to take. It's not usually public and you can immediately respond.

Anyone who spends time on this site is obviously a fish nut. But let's not lose perspective and get too serious. It's a hobby that's meant to be fun. It's a forum that's meant to be fun. Most of us are never going to actually meet face to face so who really cares what anyone else thinks or says about you or your tank? If the biggest thing you have to worry about is what people say on this site then your life is pretty worry free!


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## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

> I totally disagree with that mumbo jumbo. I am a member of several fish forums and this is by far the best one when it comes to good advice and friendly people. Most of the time.....well I am not going to go there. I was going to add more to that but I won't. I just know that I have read thru tons of threads on this site and your information is disagreeable. I can probably count on both hands out of the millions of threads on this site where you will see anything like what you say. You might read someones advice as inappropriate criticism and I would read it as a direct answer to the question.


I'm sorry if you thought I meant that more often than not you will come across inappropriate responses. Because that is not what I meant at all. I agree with you that this is one of the friendliest and helpful websites available for fish hobbyists and anyone I know who is already hooked or is thinking about getting into fish-keeping... I always point them here. I'm actually on the same page with you, that it is rare... but rude or inappropriate responses do exist on this forum. I also wan to commend the moderators for doing a wonderful job and keeping it in check always.

In fact I saw Number6 do it today when somebody was getting out of hand.

Once again, sorry my statement came across that way. I can see how it would... and I never intended for it to be like that.

:thumb:


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

OK..sorry you got your feelings hurt..but..


> if you put your tank up to be rated you have to live with the rating that it is given


We have all seen the warm and fuzzy fourms..dancing avatars..the chours of atta boys for every rock placed in a tank(20 pics of it from all angles)..endless postings containing half truths and downright misinformation..
I would rather get the real goods, even if it sometimes puts a bruise on my ego.
So glad I found CF :thumb:


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

AGAIN LET ME REPEAT MYSELF "SLEEPY" not entirely about the thread you weenie.. beat a friggin dead horse.. actually alot comes from the I3laze thread where you guys nailed him for HIS stand.. like i said its not the criticism, but the way your nasty snide remarks are. constructive criticism is fine but your arrogant nasty way of presenting is the problem.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

and just so it IS known the tank listed is in complete overhall. there is a 3d background being wrapped up this weekend. and the tank is broken down as of now . i am picking up a 55 and a 100 this saturday :thumb: anyways the point being made is.. watch how you speak to people , were all on this world together, and unless you were willing to speak to someone face to face that way and deal with reprecutions,, dont grow big ones and say it in a forum.. the internet always seems to "make em hang a little lower" and i doubt it would be that way face to face. that being said. dont be a d*** when you talk to someone especially a newb whos tryin to absorb as much as fast as they can. and when its all said and done... its just fish


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## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

> and when its all said and done... its just fish


Ouch man... ouch...

Listen jfly... I like you man (or perhaps you are a girl... idk)... I have seen you around the forum and you seem to be doing your reading and you are a helpful active participant. But your statement right there irks me... and this is why...

I am sooo tired of the general notion that fish can be treated inhumanely with no consequence. We all gasp at the sight of a dead dog on the side of the road, but so many people will buy an aquarium or a goldfish bowl and a few fish with the expectation that it doesn't matter because they are so cheap... we can just let them die and replace them in a week. right? Well, in my opinion, and I know you agree with me jfly, it isn't right. Fish, just like any other living creature that we take under our wing, need to be given not only the conditions they need to survive, but to thrive as well. Once you make that purchase, you have life in your hands, and as fellow living creatures on this earth, we should be expected to respect it and all life for that matter.

I'm not a tree hugger... I'm not a hippie... I'm not religious... I simply respect life and all forms of it. Whether it be a person, child, dog, cat, or a $.69 danio.

I had a co-worker once say to me... "Man, why do you care so much about those fish? It's not like they have souls..."

I just about threw the fax machine accross the office. In reply I said, "Listen, I don't even think that humans have souls... that's not what it is about at all... it's simply about respecting life." I couldn't belive that as an apparently religious man, he couldn't get a grasp on that.

I know I'm hijaking your rant with another... but this just irks me at my core like nothing else. This goes so much deeper and is more important than what's on the surface. Have you noticed how, in general, the more different something is from us, the less sympathy we have for it. We tend to be more upset at the sight of roadkill (especially mammals) then the sight of a tank full of dead fish. Any connection to racism?

Let me reitterate... jfly... I know you are not the type of person that I just referenced above, and that statement you made... you didn't intend the meaning that I just brought up. But in the spirit of watching what we say to respect eachother, it would probably be a good idea to filter statemetns like that. Especially around here, where it should be assumed that more people feel the same way than the general public that probably looks at us like we are crazy. i,e my coworker.

I have this feeling that there is a lot of :roll: going on right now... but I don't care... it's something that I'm pationate about enough that it had to be said.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

right on


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

wow... i believe that you TOTALLY misunderstand what i was saying.. guess thats the problem with forum posting and texting ... you cant see/hear the emotion in the statement.. what i was trying to convey is that at times , it seems that we forget that there is a human posting... dont get me wrong i LOVE my fishies and am absolutely obsessed with them.. i mean, i roll around and in my car right now is two modified syphons and 50 feet of garden hose.. i clean other peoples tanks for free and try to educated with what little knowledge i have gained.. again what i was trying to say is while we are in cf and talking about our passion let us not forget, or demean the human factor in this equation.. the LAST thing we want to do is , with our human attitiudes and opinions frustrate or turn someone off from raising and preserving these wonderful cichlids. sorry if anything i said was taken askew. Point being as a whole i LOVE cf and YOU guys in particular. Just give a newb a break...try and make friends in here, while giving critism be constructive, dont tear someone down and make em lose hope. after all were all in this together.. btw edou you the man, i like ya kid. and btw 27/m/nc :fish:


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## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

lol... it's all good... and like I said... I knew what you meant. You just gave me an opportunity to express something that is extremely important to me.

I know you love your fish and I never wanted to say that you are "that" kind of guy. Let's put it this way... based on what I've heard from you... if you were my next door neighbor and I had to go out of town for a few weeks... I would trust you with the care of my tanks... and that's saying a lot. :thumb:

And once again, sorry I hijacked your thread with another/different rant.

hmmmm... lots of emotions in this one... lol

jfly... I got your back anytime!! :thumb:

And this topic has moved way too far from the original point. Very much my fault... and I am very sorry about that.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

thanks all


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## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

Just to clear my conscience and right the wrong, I want to say one more time to everyone... I did not intend to attack the character of jfly, he know's what he is doing and is a passionate hobbiest like the rest of us.

I just used his choice of words to go off on my own rant. I do believe that what I said has merit... but in no way did I intend to portray jfly in that manner.

I just reread my post and realized that I should have been more careful about MY choice of words... which ironically is the exact point that jfly is making with this thread.

and I'm done.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

If jackie chan is your homeboy id better be wiser than to say anything smart to you !!!  love you guys viva la cf and my frankenfish blood parrots too :wink:


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## sleepy09 (Jan 15, 2009)

Hey Jfly, I guess since you want to keep this going and keep pushing here I will stay in with you.



> AGAIN LET ME REPEAT MYSELF "SLEEPY" not entirely about the thread you weenie..


1st off who is the weenie that got his feelings hurt when someone makes a simple comment about their tank and then posts a new thread in a section of the forum that it doesn't even belong in.

2nd where is it that you see me beating a dead horse as you say? I posted 2 comments on this thread that I will defend. In my first response I took your cry baby side and said that it was your tank do what you want with it and don't let anyone tell any different. Just in case you might have missed that part here is my quote.



> I agree Jfly, it is your tank you set it up the way you want to and don't let anyone tell you different. If your fish are happy and you are too then that is all that matters.





> actually alot comes from the I3laze thread where you guys nailed him for HIS stand.. like i said its not the criticism, but the way your nasty snide remarks are. constructive criticism is fine but your arrogant nasty way of presenting is the problem


See that just shows how diluted you are. I don't recall making any comments on HIS stand. You are all upset because someone made a stupid comment about your tank and now you are looking for a way to support your cry baby issue.

You show me one person that has an issue with my advice or comments. I might come off as straight forward or direct but then again most people aren't like you expecting people to kiss your rearend while giving you some advice. It is people like you that make the rest of us look bad.

Hey edouthirt, I am sorry if I went off the edge a little to far here[/quote]. I got upset with the direction that this thread was going after reading your response. I am as passionate about this hobby as the rest of us are here. I love this forum and the friends that I have made here and I felt the need to defend it. I like to think that I have been of some help to others here just as others here have been a big help to me.

This will be my last response to this thread I am done with this childish garbage.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

why can't we all just get along? :-?


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## @nt!x (Feb 9, 2009)

LMAO the Internets....


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

wow. again to allz in the room ... the tank rating . WAS justified the tank is lame, it is a picture of one that is torn down and a 3d background is in process as you can see from diy..

any confusion.. apologies and for blazes' post i was just giving a REFERENCE IN GENERAL as to how criticism is dealt out here . all in all this is THE best cichlid forum *** ever seen. 99% of you guys out there are great people and give awesome advice. the horse is dead, the rant is over... but anytime you post a rant it always ruffles feathers. thanks for the great advice thanks for the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and keep it up :thumb:


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