# AC110 or 406 question



## hawkkerw (Jan 31, 2012)

So, if you put these two flters side by side is the canister going to do that much better? I guess I am asking this as a open question no particular tank setup. I read this post every day and find the topic of filters to be very interesting but, at the same time to be probably the most confusing in the hobby. Many times it seems like its almost a Ford vs.Chevrolet thing.

With this question what confuses me the most is say the 406 has more media space but the AC110 flow rate is better so do they equal out if setup with the same media type?


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## Steveboos (Dec 23, 2011)

Well the 406 is going to hold about 3 times as much surface area as the AC110 if not more. This means more room for bacteria to grow, always a good thing. That being said, the AC110 is an amazing HOB and can hold a ton of media in it. So when it comes down to it, both are great choices, and both will do roughly the same thing, filter the water and hold bacteria.

The real decision comes down to your budget, your tank setup, the GPH you need, and the amount of fish you are stocking.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

I would prefer the canister over the AC110.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

I would prefer the 110 over the cannister, simply because it is easier to clean.


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## bbortko (Nov 20, 2011)

The 406 has much greater capacity and needs less maintenance, capacity is every bit as important as flow rate. AC is good for hob but are loud and a pita if you have fish that kick up sand. If a canister isn't in your budget the ac is probably your best bet but if the money isn't an option you'll probably enjoy the canister more. Personally I'm trying to replace my ac that's on my 125for polishing purposes but don't know which route I want to go.


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## dvorion (Dec 31, 2006)

I have 2 AC 110 with pre filters on them, work like 2 champs!

I have never had a noise issue. Now I am OCD with keeping the impellers clean.

:thumb:


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## Steveboos (Dec 23, 2011)

Aquaclears are the least noisy of all the HOB made. I love my AC's!! A friend bought a brand new Marineland Penguin 350 and out of the box it was noisy and grinding, such a shame....

Fluval 406 = $150
AquaClear 110 = $65

Your choice!


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Steveboos said:


> Aquaclears are the least noisy of all the HOB made. I love my AC's!! A friend bought a brand new Marineland Penguin 350 and out of the box it was noisy and grinding, such a shame....
> 
> Fluval 406 = $150
> AquaClear 110 = $65
> ...


Only problem I have with my AC110 is the sponges it comes with. They are not the best at filtration after the impeller has ground up all the waste. When using polishing pads it clogs super fast and starts to bypass. I do however have a heavy load.

I am going to order a canister in the next couple weeks....

The one benefit I have noticed with the penguin 350 over the AC110 is the cartridge filter is more tightly woven and does a better job of finer filtration however it needs to be cleaned often as well. It really is 6 of one and a half dozen of the other.

I guess if you can afford a $125-400 for a canister then at $60 the AC110 is a viable option.


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## malady (Nov 20, 2011)

i would go with canister

more media, less frequent maintenance, less noise, more options in general. For example you can hook up a spray bar or diffuser
If you wait for deals online you can get a significant discount on a canister


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## bbortko (Nov 20, 2011)

My ac20 is silent but 70 &110 are noisy. The 70 is a week old and was noisy out of the box, can't remember about the 110. The noise issue doesn't seem to be impeller related but vibrations of the job against the tank, it is probably the hard plastics of the housing.


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## hawkkerw (Jan 31, 2012)

Thanks Everyone,

I guess what I was aiming for with this question would boil down to can the AC110 by itself do just as good a job as a 406 by itself (OK let me throw in a say a 55gallon) leaving the cost differance out.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

The AC110 has several advantages over the cannister. It's ease of cleaning means you are more likely to keep it clean. You don't even have to turn it off to clean it, so you can do it with every water change. It will tell you visibly when the inserts are clogged, by showing bypass. The cannister really doesn't require less maintenance unless you consider storing waste in a can attached to your tank as being a good thing. Getting solid material out of the tank before it can break down is a good thing, and will result in a slower rise in nitrate levels. In my view, the best filter is the one that you will maintain, and for me, that would be the AC.
In a 55, an AC110 would be more than adequate.


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## lp85253 (Sep 27, 2011)

BillD said:


> The AC110 has several advantages over the cannister. It's ease of cleaning means you are more likely to keep it clean. You don't even have to turn it off to clean it, so you can do it with every water change. It will tell you visibly when the inserts are clogged, by showing bypass. The cannister really doesn't require less maintenance unless you consider storing waste in a can attached to your tank as being a good thing. Getting solid material out of the tank before it can break down is a good thing, and will result in a slower rise in nitrate levels. In my view, the best filter is the one that you will maintain, and for me, that would be the AC.
> In a 55, an AC110 would be more than adequate.


+1 the ac 110 is all the filter youll need on the average 55 and less expensive and easier to clean


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## smith10210 (Jan 19, 2012)

*** owned both and and went with the 406. I couldn't take the noise of my AC's any-more. I don't find the 406 to be hard to clean at all pretty easy and less frequent cleaning. The AC's did work fine but man the ones i had i spent to much time messing with them to get them to quiet down.


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## Mike_G (Nov 8, 2011)

bbortko said:


> My ac20 is silent but 70 &110 are noisy. The 70 is a week old and was noisy out of the box, can't remember about the 110. The noise issue doesn't seem to be impeller related but vibrations of the job against the tank, it is probably the hard plastics of the housing.


I put a thin piece of closed-cell foam on the tank frame and then set the HOB on top of it to avoid noise from vibration against the tank frame. :thumb:


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## Polarbear69 (Mar 2, 2012)

Perhaps it is not properly balanced or level as they do supply a plastic leveler that helps.


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## SobrietyRocks707 (Feb 23, 2012)

Mike_G said:


> I put a thin piece of closed-cell foam on the tank frame and then set the HOB on top of it to avoid noise from vibration against the tank frame. :thumb:


+1 :thumb: Closed cell foam is amazing for quieting things down. I use it all the time to kill vibration in our spa cabinets.... And that's 2 or 3 5hp motors


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## AulonoKarl (Mar 9, 2012)

bbortko said:


> My ac20 is silent but 70 &110 are noisy. The 70 is a week old and was noisy out of the box, can't remember about the 110. The noise issue doesn't seem to be impeller related but vibrations of the job against the tank, it is probably the hard plastics of the housing.


I don't know if this is typical, but my AC 70 was kind of loud out of the box. Over time, the plastic inside of the motor, where the impeller is housed, got a thin layer of algae on it. This served almost as a lubricant and the impeller/motor assembly became silent. Then I cleaned it out with pipe cleaners and it got loud again. Now, i clean the impeller every time that I do a water change, but leave the inside of the plastic motor alone, at least until the algae growth gets out of control.

If yours is still fairly new, give it a little time. If my observations mean anything, it could get a little quieter as it starts to get slimy.


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## hawkkerw (Jan 31, 2012)

I know this probably will sound strange but I enjoy the sound of the water flowing back into the tank I find it relaxing, that being said, I don't think I'd enjoy a ratting cover or impeller.

I seems allot of folks mention some of the Aquaclear's tend to be on the loud side? When I started this thread I was trying to decide if the AC110 with it higher flow rate could do just as good of a job next to say a 406, XP3 or simliar canister.

I have two large Pleco's (10 inchs or so) mine are just like a dog, they like being hand feed, petted etc. But let me tell you what they make a huge mess and as a result (along with water changes) you need allot of filtration just to keep up with them.


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## hawkkerw (Jan 31, 2012)

One more question has anyone tryed the Fluval C Series filters?


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## SobrietyRocks707 (Feb 23, 2012)

hawkkerw said:


> One more question has anyone tryed the Fluval C Series filters?


Not yet, but I've been curious.... I think that will be the HOB that I pair with the canister on my 90g. Saw an unboxing of the C4 on Youtube. Looks really nice. Lots of room for bio media.


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## SobrietyRocks707 (Feb 23, 2012)

hawkkerw said:


> I know this probably will sound strange but I enjoy the sound of the water flowing back into the tank I find it relaxing


+1 :thumb:


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## AulonoKarl (Mar 9, 2012)

The only problem I have with aquaclear out of the box is that it doesn't polish the water well. The sponges let a lot of fine material pass through. I like the sponges capacity. They hold the larger material very well and don't need to be cleaned very often, but I have had a hard time getting my water crystal clear with the aquaclear. I picked up a fluval prefilter sponge from my LFS and put it on the intake of my AC70 and it helped polish the water quite a bit, but it requires squeezing it out every couple of days or it gets clogged and greatly reduces the flow of your filter.

Don't get me wrong. I like the AC70 a lot, but I think if you have a heavy bioload, you will have trouble keeping the water crystal clear with one or even two, unless you use and maintain polishing pads or prefilters, which will require nearly daily attention.

I'm saving up for a cascade 1000 or fluval 406 to use in conjunction with my AC70 in my 55 gallon tank, because I believe that's what I will need to do in order to have crystal clear water that requires less daily attention. Not that I mind work, but I'd rather work on aquascaping, water changes, algae scrubbing etc... than fighting a daily battle with my water clarity.

So, back to your original question: I believe, out of the box, that the 406 will help you achieve greater water clarity and require less maintenance than the AC110.


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## hawkkerw (Jan 31, 2012)

OK, so I ordered a 406 and a AC70 for extra water movement. I suppose there is no easy answer for this.I was just trying to figure out when shopping for a filter, which is more important water circulation or filter capacity. I knew the AC110 pumped over 100 gph more than the 406.

Then I looked at the Fluval C series because it seemed like Hagen fixed the micron filtration lacking on the Aquaclears by adding it to the inside of the sponge on the C Series cartridge. I just wish Fluval had a AC110 version of the C- Series.

Now I do have a heavy bio load as I had mentioned earlier the Pleco alone seems like he poops twice as much as he eats (they are just such neat fish and he dosn't put up with any **** 
from the cichlids)

With the AC 70 if I cut a Micron pad to fit on top of the Aquaclear Sponge will that help or just cause more problems then its worth?


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## AulonoKarl (Mar 9, 2012)

hawkkerw said:


> Now I do have a heavy bio load as I had mentioned earlier the Pleco alone seems like he poops twice as much as he eats (they are just such neat fish and he dosn't put up with any #%$&
> from the cichlids)
> 
> With the AC 70 if I cut a Micron pad to fit on top of the Aquaclear Sponge will that help or just cause more problems then its worth?


Common plecos are beautiful, but yeah... I had to get rid of mine. That was a lot of poop once he got to be about 8". If I didn't vacuum a little bit every day, it was a serious eyesore.

You can give the micron pad a try, heck, I might pick some up and try it out tonight. However, I think if you pack your fluval 406 with enough mechanical filter media, you won't have any need to worry about it. I'd just let the AC70 pick up large particles, help with the bioload, and create some water movement, and then leave the rest up to the fluval. I think it's a good pair, and is probably exactly what I'll end up with as well. The only thing I might add is a powerhead on the opposite end of the tank as the fluval intake, pointed towards it.


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2012)

I love this thread. I just went out and picked up an AC110 and also the Fluval 406 for my 75G from my LFS :thumb:

But then I'm also thinking about running 2 AC110s and the 406 just for this tank alone. Is that too much, you guys think?


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## SobrietyRocks707 (Feb 23, 2012)

phister said:


> I love this thread. I just went out and picked up an AC110 and also the Fluval 406 for my 75G from my LFS :thumb:
> 
> But then I'm also thinking about running 2 AC110s and the 406 just for this tank alone. Is that too much, you guys think?


I don't think overkill, when talking filtration, is ever a bad thing.

I have an HOB and my Aquatop CF-500UV on a 20 gallon right now. Seeding the Aquatop for my 90, so it wont Always be there, but I'm getting another I think.


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## Polarbear69 (Mar 2, 2012)

I like the idea of two different filters being ac110 and 406, but two ac 110's and a 406 overkill. Having two with different waterflows and filtration compliment each other better.


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## hawkkerw (Jan 31, 2012)

Phister, I wish I had a local fish store where I could buy this stuff. I live in a small town in he middle of the Rocky Mountains where I have to travel 100 miles just one way to get to a decent fish store. So everything I do has to be via the Internet. :zz:

I've been buying a little at a time. When I'm finished I hope to have the 55 which I currently have setup. The 125 I'm working on and something like a 29 for a fry tank.

So far I have the following filters

1 Marineland C530
1 Fluval FX5
1 Fluval 406
1 Fluval C4
1 Aquaclear 70.

On the 55 I am running the C-530 and the Fluval C4. With the C4 the jury is still out I havn't ran it long enough to have a real good opinion of it. I plan to run on this tank the Fluval 406 and at least 1 HOB (to be determined) I have also considered a sponge with a air pump.

With the 125 which I am currently am working on I will move the C-530 and the FX5 I would also like to add a HOB(to be determined). I still need to decide on the heaters, two of something?(wattage ratings on heaters confuse me alllot. Eheim will say 150 watt is good for say up to 125 where Hagen will rate it's 300 watt for a 125, where do the get the ratings from?) and then the lighting is a whole another issue. :-?

The fry tank is in the future. :fish:

Anyway back to the filters does anyone know if the AC70 will hang on the back of a 125 or is the glass/trim to thick? My thought was maybe using the C4 and AC70 for the extra on the 125 and get a AC110 to run with the 406 on the 55.

You know getting this all planned out has been enjoyable almost like shopping for a new car or house there are so many choices and I havn't even finished with the list of fish I'd like to have yet. You all also have realy helped with this all the vast knowledge I look forword to logging in and reading threw the post everyday. I may not jump in much but I do read all the posts.

Thanks everyone :thumb:


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## Polarbear69 (Mar 2, 2012)

No issue hanging the Aquaclear power filters on back of tank. Just make sure they are properly balanced.


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## hawkkerw (Jan 31, 2012)

I thought I had read somewhere that some folks had to modify the Smaller AQ's in some way to fit on large tanks? might of just been me not catching the entire thread


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## Polarbear69 (Mar 2, 2012)

Utilizing a smaller aquaclear power filter for a large tank might not beneficial as you want to circulate as many gallons per hour as possible. AQ 110 are perfect for 75-125 gallon tanks. Never utilized smaller for those sizes, perhaps the AQ 70 or lower are better for 30-60 gallon tanks.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2012)

hawkkerw said:


> Phister, I wish I had a local fish store where I could buy this stuff. I live in a small town in he middle of the Rocky Mountains where I have to travel 100 miles just one way to get to a decent fish store. So everything I do has to be via the Internet. :zz:
> 
> I've been buying a little at a time. When I'm finished I hope to have the 55 which I currently have setup. The 125 I'm working on and something like a 29 for a fry tank.
> 
> ...


that's pretty darn intense, driving 100 miles just for a decent pet shop.

as far as your heaters are concerned, 2 300W heaters should be used in your 125G tank IMO...

and my stocking list took me FOREVER to decide, but i'm pretty much done with my stocking list now.when i first started i had like 20 species on my list and now that i'm done, i'm only gonna have 5 in my tank lol


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2012)

I think on Saturday night I'm gonna be running out to buy another AC110 for my 75G. I'm gonna have both AC110s on both sides and then put the 406 in the middle of the tank. The only thing I did so far is put in a finer pad on top of the sponge for better filtering :thumb:


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## hawkkerw (Jan 31, 2012)

Sounds like your getting there =D> I went out and got this stuff called advanced polyfiber kinda looks like the blue stuff that you see on the bio-wheel catridges comes in a big 18x30 sheet you can cut out. Says it will trap both micro and macro. I know I've read postings from some of the vetrans about using something like this where the AC sponge is so course? I guess the big quesstion will be with a heavy bio load will this stuff have to be cleaned every other day?

I tell you I like the design of the C Series I like the fiber cartridge kinda like a small version of the 06 canister. The carbon cartridge has plenty of room for both fiber and some extra bio if you want. My problem has been flow seems to run across the trickle chamber and off the other side without going through the chamber. I've put a call into support to see if I may be doing something wrong (still waiting for call back). They need to make a 110 version of this C-Series and it be great. Current only does like 265gph.

You know I may be switching gears a bit. I've been flip flopping with these smaller hob filters my thought at this point is just order two AC110's and be done with it. That would give me 1 406 canister and 1 AC110 on the 55 gallon. On the 125 I'd be running 1 FX5,1 AC110 and a Marineland 530 which I think should give me plenty for filtration for both. This would just give me a extra AC70 and the C4. (might have to get another tank at some point to use them on.  ).

For the 125 heaters I'm going to just order two 300's (still not sure what brand)

So, the 55 is done for the most part. The 125 I have the tank, filters still need to order heaters and light. OHH...forgot the fish  :drooling:


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