# How's my aquascaping? (56k warning)



## Guest

I recently finished adding plants to my new 265gallon tank. Later tonight I'm adding a few fish to start cycling it.

The rocks are all basalt or granite. The reddish one I am not sure but it is probably basalt. The sand is 3m colorquartz 'Buff' s grade, and the plants are Anubias, Java Fern, and Vallisneria. The lighting is two CF fixtures with a total of 384 watts. The plumbing is pvc with a ProClear 300 sump and a Magdrive 1800gph pump. The heaters are a 250watt stealth heater and a 200 watt stealth heater (visitherm). The background is black poster taped on the back glass.

Let me know what you guys think. The tank is going to house African Cichlids such as Malawi peacocks, Protomelas sp., Lethrinops sp., Lichnochromis acuticeps (hopefully if I ever see them for sale...), etc. Currently I do not have any caves but I am going to either make a pvc cave or eventually make a lace rock cave.

Here are the pictures:






















































View from right side:









View from left side:









~Ed


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## TheFishGuy

Simplicity, I like it alot. Looks very natural :thumb: Actually I Really like it  Nice job 8)


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## Guest

TheFishGuy said:


> Simplicity, I like it alot. Looks very natural :thumb: Actually I Really like it  Nice job 8)


Thanks. That's what I was going for...plus I didn't want to buy hundreds of pounds of lace rock where I could use a few hundred pounds of rock in my back yard...;p.

Hopefully the plants will live... I never used real plants before.

~Ed


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## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

its a little too arranged for my tastes (rocks are in a straight line and equally spaced)

personally a small pile and bits of rubble would look more natural.

is that plain sand?? if so the plant might struggle. you'll have to dose with ferts, and with all that open space and so few plants algae will thrive.


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## Guest

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:


> its a little too arranged for my tastes (rocks are in a straight line and equally spaced)
> 
> personally a small pile and bits of rubble would look more natural.
> 
> is that plain sand?? if so the plant might struggle. you'll have to dose with ferts, and with all that open space and so few plants algae will thrive.


I am thinking of adding more plants and such soon. I just got those today to see how much room they would take up. I definitely am getting more vallisneria and anubias soon though.

Those rocks actually aren't that much in a straight line but I see what you mean. They aren't going anywhere though..too heavy to move ;p.

I like what you said about the rubble stuff though. I do have a couple small pieces of the same rock, and a landscaping place around the corner that sells small pieces too. Problem is though that I forgot to do that when setting up the tank.

I would like to ask your opinion on that though. Do you think a pile of rocks or randomly placed smaller rocks would look best by themselves or with algae if it grows, or should I add some plants on/in them like anubias, java fern, or java moss?

And about the fertilizer, I forgot to ask before but would Seachem fluorescent tabs placed under or around the plants in the sand work fine?

What else should I know about plant care? I don't want the tank heavily planted because I'm putting larger haps in it, by I would like an adequate amount of plants. Unfortunately, the plants you see in my tank were the largest java ferns and anubias that my LFS had left.

And would a sword plant work in my tank? A few weeks ago my lfs had a massive sword plant (not amazon) with thick leaves and even a flower up top on it. The leaves felt thick on it too.

Thanks for your comments though,
~Ed

Edit:
Speaking of algae, I heard moss balls either in the tank, in the over flow boxes or in the sump can help outcompete types of algae particularly hair algae. That true?


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## ashilli48

The moss ball is technically a big mass of algae, but pretty sturdy, so it will outcompete the algae, along with the other plants. Of course the lights being on too much may cancel that fact out. I have one in a heavily planted tank and it is very cool. You have alot of open space and I have heard that the balls float and roll with the current as if they were moving on their own. May be a great addition to your tank. Cool tank. Looking forward to pics of the fish!


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## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

seachem tabs under the roots is better than nothing.

personally I would create 2 piles of rocks, 1 medium, 1 small. (4-5rocks and 2-3 for the other (of a similar size to the 1s now)) and then a few smaller pieces in with the piles and scattered in between.

plant wise, I would go with vallis, (in the rear corners and back, will hide the overflows,) preferably the giant version as I found it grew the quickest. as such it'll repair damage, and you can trim it thereby removing nitrates from the tank. both anubias and java fern are slow growing, so wont help on the algae front

a large sword would look good (not in the centre however, rule of thirds, put it on the 1/3 or 2/3 point of the tank that way it gives the tank a better fell than symmetry would) and given enough nutrients and light should help lower nutrient levels even more.

however it may be worth getting some BN plecs to keep the algae levels down overall.

as for moss balls, if you want them go for it, but they wont help with keeping the algae down, they are relatively slow growing, so wont help in that respect


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## Guest

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:


> seachem tabs under the roots is better than nothing.
> 
> personally I would create 2 piles of rocks, 1 medium, 1 small. (4-5rocks and 2-3 for the other (of a similar size to the 1s now)) and then a few smaller pieces in with the piles and scattered in between.
> 
> plant wise, I would go with vallis, (in the rear corners and back, will hide the overflows,) preferably the giant version as I found it grew the quickest. as such it'll repair damage, and you can trim it thereby removing nitrates from the tank. both anubias and java fern are slow growing, so wont help on the algae front
> 
> a large sword would look good (not in the centre however, rule of thirds, put it on the 1/3 or 2/3 point of the tank that way it gives the tank a better fell than symmetry would) and given enough nutrients and light should help lower nutrient levels even more.
> 
> however it may be worth getting some BN plecs to keep the algae levels down overall.
> 
> as for moss balls, if you want them go for it, but they wont help with keeping the algae down, they are relatively slow growing, so wont help in that respect


If the fluorescent is better than nothing, then should I use something else or is the tabs fine?

I have no idea what kind of vallisneria I have. I think my LFS has only one left also. Is whatever I have fine, or should I look for what you suggested? Do you happen to know it's scientific name or common name other than eel grass/vallis?

The rock piles will have to wait though until my next major maintenance on the tank (few weeks from now). But you didn't answer my question...should I leave them bair like the other large rocks in the tank or attach java mass, java fern, or weed anubias into it?

Also, my lfs has an awesome anubias specimen larger than any I have so far but it's embedded in a piece of driftwood about 8 inches long or less. I heard driftwood can lower the ph. Would such a single small piece do that? Currently I have my ph at 8.4 and very hard and alkaline water.

~Ed


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## Deeda

Marduk, I would go for the anubias on the driftwood in your tank. I think it would look great & shouldn't really lower your pH that much. Anubias really prefers being attached to rock or driftwood & it would help keep your fish from digging them up from the substrate.

I am using Colorquartz S-grade also & I've had better luck tying anubias and java fern to rocks using sewing thread. Plus it allows me to move them without damaging the roots when I get the itch to rearrange my tank.

Check out the Reviews section for online plant merchants. I bought mine online & was very pleased with the excellent specimens I received. Much bigger & cheaper then anything I've seen in a fish store.

Your tank looks great. I prefer more rock in my tank as it looks more natural but everyone has their own preferences. Go with what makes your fish & you happy.


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## Laurel

Marduk - Your tank looks beautiful. I hate the idea of you cluttering it up with lace rock, which will not match your current rock, or PVC. You spent all that effort aquascaping, and you're already considering throwing some artificial looking plastic or glued-together rock into the tank? Why not get some more(smaller) pieces of that same rock from your back yard and create rubble piles?


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## Guest

Laurel said:


> Marduk - Your tank looks beautiful. I hate the idea of you cluttering it up with lace rock, which will not match your current rock, or PVC. You spent all that effort aquascaping, and you're already considering throwing some artificial looking plastic or glued-together rock into the tank? Why not get some more(smaller) pieces of that same rock from your back yard and create rubble piles?


That's what I was going to do. Lace rock was only going to be used for java ferns, and I was thinking with the pvc to glue small bits to it, but that'd fit my 120g better.

If I was to put lace rock in it the tank either way it would have plants on it. I did originally have 5 more large rocks I wanted to put in the tank but they took up a lot of room... Currently I'd like to get another large tall rock in there in the middle by the anubias or towards the left.

With the rocks in my yard I have very few small ones left in the garden. Later this week I'll stop by the rock place.

Thanks for your comments though Laurel. I do want to use mostly the same rocks. I'm worried though on how much to expect my haps on digging up the anubias and vallis... I was thinking of tying them to small strips of eggcrate and bury the eggcrate to anchor it like plastic plants or attaching lead fishing weights to them .

~Ed


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## TheFishGuy

I still like it the way it is :lol:

And I've never kept plants.... you guys are beyond me :lol: I would like to do live plants in my 185 eventually....


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## Guest

TheFishGuy said:


> I still like it the way it is :lol:
> 
> And I've never kept plants.... you guys are beyond me :lol: I would like to do live plants in my 185 eventually....


I don't want to change much either. Before I do add more smaller rocks (super small ones) I first want to see how it looks with fish and more plants in the tank.


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## alicem

Be careful planting anubia and java fern in the sand or any substrate. If you bury them too deep, they will rot. 
You can tie the anubia and java fern to the rocks using mono filament (fishing line) It is a little bit difficult to work with but the line is barely noticable. 
If you tie your plants to smaller rocks, you'll be able to stack them and/or move them around.
Often I just gently wedge the plants in between the rocks. Sometimes they float off, just get in there and place them back where you want them...

I've never heard of the "flourescent tabs" you refer to. 
I have used Seachem Flourish Tabs(replaced every 3 months instead of monthly...) 
I've also used Seachem Excel liquid. 
Be very careful of ferts, tho, as ferts encourage algae and your plants are fairly slow growers.

I don't have any luck with vals, many people do, tho. 
I do have luck with water onion (crinum thaianum) It has the same long leaf look as vals do. 
I like the height in the tank.

tropica.com can help you identify the name of your plant you are looking for.

Hope this helps. You have the beginnings of a great tank. Have fun with it!
Alicem


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## Guest

alicem said:


> Be careful planting anubia and java fern in the sand or any substrate. If you bury them too deep, they will rot.
> You can tie the anubia and java fern to the rocks using mono filament (fishing line) It is a little bit difficult to work with but the line is barely noticable.
> If you tie your plants to smaller rocks, you'll be able to stack them and/or move them around.
> Often I just gently wedge the plants in between the rocks. Sometimes they float off, just get in there and place them back where you want them...
> 
> I've never heard of the "flourescent tabs" you refer to.
> I have used Seachem Flourish Tabs(replaced every 3 months instead of monthly...)
> I've also used Seachem Excel liquid.
> Be very careful of ferts, tho, as ferts encourage algae and your plants are fairly slow growers.
> 
> I don't have any luck with vals, many people do, tho.
> I do have luck with water onion (crinum thaianum) It has the same long leaf look as vals do.
> I like the height in the tank.
> 
> tropica.com can help you identify the name of your plant you are looking for.
> 
> Hope this helps. You have the beginnings of a great tank. Have fun with it!
> Alicem


Sorry I meant Seachem Fluorish Tabs..stupid spell check -_-.

The plants are at max in 1-2" deep sand, but they aren't buried completely I can clearly see some roots sticking out.


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## Racingfish

I think it looks very nice.. I agree with a few smaller piles of the SAME rock you currently have.. but not much more.. right now it looks a bit bare however once you get some fish in there it will look alot fuller..

Good luck post pics when its complete and there are fish in it..


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## Guest

I added three more vallisneria and 2 more Anubias, one of which is an awesome one growing on a piece of driftwood. I also moved some of my fish from my 120g to it and they seemed pretty excited in thier new, huge and un-overstocked tank .

After I get my shipment on friday I'll take more pictures.

Anyone have any plant suggestions or tips?

~Ed


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## Sid_P

I tend to agree with our PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn on the rock structures...It does look a bit uniform...almost like tombstones...if you know what I mean.

In nature rocks of the same type are usually found together ....that is, not.. one black....one brown...another black...another brown...which is how you currently arranged them.

I think you have a fantastic size tank and the ideas can be endless....though I would group the same type of rocks closer together and add some rock rubble around the bigger stones as already suggested. Perhaps leave a clearing of sand that your Haps will no doubt enjoy when fully grown.
Algae growth on rocks?...I personally like it! ...and have thick lush velvet-like carpets on some of mine...my Mbuna love grazing on it and it gives a kind of reef look to it all.
I also have giant vallisnera against my side wall..which makes a nice retreat or chill-out zone for fish that want to get away from it all! :lol: only fertz used is supplied by the fish!

Good Luck with it all ...be good to see more pics in a couple months?


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## Guest

Here's the current stocklist:
Placidochromis milomo
Mchenga conophoros
Neolamprologus sexfasciatus 'gold'
Labidochromis caeruleus
Aulonocara stuartgranti Ngara
Aulonocara stuartgranti Usisya
Aulonocara srtuartgranti Ungi
Aulonocara stuartgranti Maulana
Aulonocara baenschi
Protomelas spinolotus Liuli
Protomelas taen... (can't spell) - Red Empress
Dimidiochromis compressiceps

Coming Friday:
Mchenga conophoros
Lethrinops sp. 'green chest' m/f
Protomelas spinolotus Mara Rocks x2 m/m
Aulonocara "monkey bay/yellow collar"
Protomelas steveni Taiwan Reef

I'm open for other Malawi/Tanganyika suggestions. Soon (couple weeks-months) a few clown loaches, some synodontis, and a bristlenose pleco will be in it. I would like some more larger haps, lethrinops, and tanganyikan cichlids so suggest some 

~Ed

Edit:
Getting even more plants saturday. I'll try and get more pics then. Currently the Mchenga and Dimidiochromis (half blind young male I rescued) are playing in the water jet currents, the peacocks can't stop eating or finding stuff to eat, and the 3-5 year old yellow lab I rescued can't stop hiding under the anubias leaves..


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## Guest

Oh, I got the seachem fluorish tabs. It said to insert in gravel for a 4-6" radius. I just buried it in the sand and a few times I put a few close together. Let me know if it shouldn't be under the sand and too close together.


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## cichlids&amp;baseball

I would go with plants that you can attach to driftwood and rock as the s grade is so fine the africans will most likely trash your currently beautiful tank


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## Guest

cichlids&baseball said:


> I would go with plants that you can attach to driftwood and rock as the s grade is so fine the africans will most likely trash your currently beautiful tank


I'm working on attaching the plants to eggcrate or small rocks so if they get loose they'll stay down.

Currently I wouldn't mind having to replant them every so often. The worst the fish could do in my opinion is eat the leaves which is unlikely...

I am working on attaching java fern to small bits of lace rock though. I think you can see they're rubberbanded in the pics I took.

Thanks for your concern though.

~Ed


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## Guest

fish came and look awesome. I'll get pictures tomorrow after I get more plants.


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## Guest

No pictures yet. I finished the ich treatment and am bringing the temperature down. Currently I'm working on securing the vallisneria to the sand...I'm thinking of either using egg crate to anchor it down, fishing line and a single large fishing weight to weigh all down if they get loose, or trying to get them to root in little saucer pots with gravel or fiberglass/filter-floss....

I also have to plant my new plants which include a lot more vallisneria to replace the couple that died, more and bigger anubias including two with a 1ft long rizone (did I spell that right?), apongeton boliv., amazon sword (huge), rangeri sword (huge) (one of the last two may go in my 120g though), some sort of crypt. (don't remember the scientific name off the top of my head), and one other I think.

Currently the tank is infested with green hair algae over half the anubias and on the tank walls... I have added a true SAE to start eating it (until LFS gets more), and I'm cutting the light down to 1-2 hours a day for a week, and am going to scrape the hair algae or most of it off the glass.

Also, I noticed a red algae or slime growing on top of my return jets. Any idea what that is? Should I wipe it off? (ie is it harmful?)

Also, I have purchased more smaller rocks of the same kind to place in my tank. Besides placing the rocks in the tank, all I have to do is water changes to remove the salt from the ich treatment and plant the plants which are either floating or sunk in the front of the tank with lead weights...

Pretty much I'm looking for advice on the algae, and any other tips or comments. I really do hope to get new pictures up soon... None of the fish are bothering the plants save for dropping sand on the anubias, and the sulphurheads and peacocks are coloring up very nicely...

~Ed


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## Guest

I'm going to be posting pictures real soon (hopefully by the end of this week).

I'm almost done planting and arranging. All I have to do is weigh down the remaining few plants with rocks, add more rocks to the tank, and then just tank pictures.

Here's my current plant list:
Apongeton boivinanus x1 HUGE one...going to be a left side background plant
Cryptocoryne ciliata x 2
Anubias barteri x a few (5?)
Anubias hastifolia x 1
Echinodorus paniculatis (amazon sword) x 1
Echinodorus argentinensis (rangeri sword) x 2
Bolbitis heudelotii (African Fern) x 2
Microsorium pteropus (Java Fern) x a few...probably 5

And current stock list:
Otopharynx lithobates Zimbawe Rock male 4.5-5"
Protomelas spinolotus Mara Rocks 2 males 6-7"
Protomelas spinolotus Liuli male 3-4"
Aulonocara baenschi male 2-3"
Aulonocara stuartgranti Ungi male 2-3"
Aulonocara stuartgranti Ngara 4-5" (show quality)
Aulonocara stuartgranti Maulana 3-4" male
Dimidiochromis compressiceps male 4-5"
Neolamprologus sexfasciatus 'Gold' 4-5"
Mchenga conophoros Otter Point 2 males 5-6"
Protomelas steveni Taiwan Reef male 3-4"
Protomelas steveni Mlowe Tiger female 3-4"
Lethrinops sp. 'green chest' Manda male at 6", female at 3-4"
Albino Bristlenose Pleco male 3-4"

Future fish:
Tyrannochromis nigriventer
Lichnochromis acuticeps
Exochochromis anagenys


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## etcbrown

C'mon Marduk......we've heard this before: "I'm going to be posting pictures real soon (hopefully by the end of this week). "

Quit teasing us!!


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## Guest

etcbrown said:


> C'mon Marduk......we've heard this before: "I'm going to be posting pictures real soon (hopefully by the end of this week). "
> 
> Quit teasing us!!


:lol: I'm having problems planting the apongeton and I need to buy more rocks. Hopefully I'll get everything done and planted this weekend....and the pictures as well..


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## germanblue

yougoing to need a better filter with that tank cichilds are very messey.


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## Guest

Might be a few more days. It's downpouring here the past few days so I didn't have a chance to pick up some extra rocks for the tank. I should be finished and get pictures up over the next couple days.


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## gtsum

pics please!


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## fmueller

I haven't read the whole thread, but I really like the look of the setup. However, I have to say those Anubias looked doomed to me! I have planted plenty of Anubias the way you did, and they were all dead within a few months. I had pretty much given up on Anubias until somebody told me that they like to be planted like Java fern; that is with the roots not covered by substrate at all! Since I follow that advice, my Anubias are doing great! I would create a pile of rocks somewhere and wedge the roots of the Anubias and the Java fern between the rocks. They'll do a lot better that way!









_Anubias on a rock cave in my 125G tropheus tank_

Regarding Java moss, when you buy it, it's of course a ball, but over time - this takes years, it can overgrow the rocks and form a mossy layer, which can look very attractive. In my opinion it's well worth the wait.









_At some stage I removed all the Java moss balls from this tank, and it has now grown back naturally to cover parts of the rocks. It now collects a lot less debris than the initial balls used to._

I never use plant food for my setup. Fish poop is the only nutrient my plants get, and they do just fine that way. Especially if you want to use them to remove nutrients from the tank, adding nutrients in form of fertilizer doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.









_I have never added any fertilizers to this tank, and the substrate is plain 3M Color Quartz. No CO2 either, and the lighting are cheap T8 fluorescents from the hardware store._

Frank


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## Stina

Your setup look simple, yet striking. :drooling: Keep up the good work. :thumb:


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## TheFishGuy

That 240 is awesome!


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## alicem

Aw, Frank, you drive me crazy with the pics of your beautiful tanks. opcorn:

Marduk,
You might want to research your apontigen for more info on it's growth habits. 
Most of apontigen go through a dormant period. 
So, if it looses it's leaves, that may be what is happening. 
It eventually will re-emerge. 
Check it out for more specifics.
I'm not sure of which type you have...
Pics, please, when you can. :thumb: 
Alicem


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## Guest

Nice tank fmueller. And thanks for the comment.

I still haven't gotten a chance to go to the rock place yet. Everytime I get a chance I either go late and they're closed (they have VERY short winter hours) or it's wet so I can't get the rocks.

If you guys want (and only if you ask) I'll take pictures of what it looks like now. Nothing is really planted yet. The java fern I'm having issues with because it STILL won't attach to the lace rocks yet, where as I can see my anubias is already starting to grab onto the rocks... And the african fern I'm just waiting for it to grab on the rock so I can move it to a different location.

All of the other plants (crypt, apong, swords, etc) are currently just sitting on the sand occasionally being moved around by the fish (they're weighed down using strips of lead).

So far the algae has been diminishing, but just recently I've had another bloom of hair algae... None on the plants though thankfully. I think the Seachem Fluorish Excel is helping a lot...

Also, on my anubias in particular but on some of the sword leaves as well I've noticed dark green spots on some of the leaves, almost looking as if it is rotten in that area...like a green spore or something... Any ideas what that is?

Pictures will have to wait. However if you guys want to see progress shots I'll take them... Perhaps if I do that too I can get ideas from you guys where I should move and plant the anubias, swords, crypts, etc.

~Ed


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## alicem

Marduk said:


> I still haven't gotten a chance to go to the rock place yet. Everytime I get a chance I either go late and they're closed (they have VERY short winter hours) or it's wet so I can't get the rocks.
> 
> If you guys want (and only if you ask) I'll take pictures of what it looks like now. Nothing is really planted yet.


Yes, pics please. 
It's ok if you haven't added more rocks. I'm interested in your plants. 
It sounds like you have added alot!


Marduk said:


> The java fern I'm having issues with because it STILL won't attach to the lace rocks yet, where as I can see my anubias is already starting to grab onto the rocks... And the african fern I'm just waiting for it to grab on the rock so I can move it to a different location.


Yeah, java fern is fickle to get to attach and it sometimes gets spots and stuff before it takes off and grows nice. Have you tied it to the lace rock with thread or anything?
Same with the african fern being slow. Be patient.



Marduk said:


> All of the other plants (crypt, apong, swords, etc) are currently just sitting on the sand occasionally being moved around by the fish (they're weighed down using strips of lead).


They are heavy root feeders and will like the flourish tabs you put in. 
In an earlier post you asked about putting the tabs close together and deep in the sand, that is fine. 
If the tabs are exposed (above the sand) it may also add to algae issues. 
Are the crypt, apontg. and swords planted near these tabs?



Marduk said:


> So far the algae has been diminishing, but just recently I've had another bloom of hair algae... None on the plants though thankfully. I think the Seachem Fluorish Excel is helping a lot...


That's good. Just rip that darned ole hair algae out of there!



Marduk said:


> Also, on my anubias in particular but on some of the sword leaves as well I've noticed dark green spots on some of the leaves, almost looking as if it is rotten in that area...like a green spore or something... Any ideas what that is?
> 
> Pictures will have to wait. However if you guys want to see progress shots I'll take them... Perhaps if I do that too I can get ideas from you guys where I should move and plant the anubias, swords, crypts, etc.
> 
> ~Ed


That's a good idea. Pics always help ID stuff, plus we get to see your new plants.
Progress shots are fun.
And you know someone will tell you how your aquascaping should look. :wink: 
Do you have a Bristle Nose pleco? They are very good algae eaters their whole life.
A BN will clean up some of that green algae for you.
:thumb: 
Alicem


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## Guest

I do have an albino male bristlenose in the tank...he's about 3-4"... Unfortunately they do not eat hair algae...so he hasn't been touching the algae on the glass because it's hair algae... When I do take pics it may look a bit bad because I didn't get a chance to do water changes and scrape the glasses yet...


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## alicem

Marduk said:


> I do have an albino male bristlenose in the tank...he's about 3-4"...


 :thumb: 


 Marduk said:


> Unfortunately they do not eat hair algae...


true


Marduk said:


> so he hasn't been touching the algae on the glass because it's hair algae...


bummer


Marduk said:


> When I do take pics it may look a bit bad because I didn't get a chance to do water changes and scrape the glasses yet...


Before and after pics of that, too!
 
Alicem


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## macclellan

this tank gets the "teaser of the year" award.

Absolutely no more talking until Marduk posts a pic.


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## Guest

macclellan said:


> this tank gets the "teaser of the year" award.
> 
> Absolutely no more talking until Marduk posts a pic.


:lol:


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## fishlids

Aren't african cichlids like crazy vegetarians? There might be a nipping problem if you add the Cichlids. I keep Mbuna, I don't know if peacocks eat plants like crazy, but I sure know mbuna do.


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## Guest

fishlids said:


> Aren't african cichlids like crazy vegetarians? There might be a nipping problem if you add the Cichlids. I keep Mbuna, I don't know if peacocks eat plants like crazy, but I sure know mbuna do.


Not all african cichlids are vegetarians. I keep Malawi haps, and the majority of them are carnivores (though there are a select few dedicated omnivores and herbivores as well). Typically from my experience and knowledge Malawi haps typically do not bother any plants other than typical moving them, dropping sand on them (unintentioanlly), etc. They probably would eat it if it was a fragile plant like anacharis or Madagascar Lace plant but otherwise they don't bother anything.


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## lotsofish

I would definitely tie the anubia and java fern to the rocks with the type of fish you plan on keeping. Other plants I would consider putting in pots. My Africans have totally rearranged my tank. They have moved massive amounts of sand leaving foot wide bare spots. I don't even bother with live plants in their tank. If they could move the heavy rocks, I'm sure they would--instead they like to spit sand on them.


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## alicem

Marduk said:


> Typically from my experience and knowledge Malawi haps typically do not bother any plants other than typical moving them, dropping sand on them (unintentioanlly), etc.


Seriously, I think those guys do it on purpose! :lol: 
Alicem


----------



## Guest

I got the rocks today. Now I just need to find this weekend to bleach-scrub them, especially since some of them have rust on them.


----------



## Guest

I'm going to start cleaning and planning on placement inside my tank tomorrow, as well as cut some eggcrate.

Some interesting news though, my Apongeton boiivinanus has grew two stems with buds to the surface and out of the tank all in one day... Looks like soon I will have some flowers blooming... What was cool though was I could actually see it grow... I'd take a look, leave 30 minutes and come back and it has grown another .5-1"...


----------



## SMOKIN

:thumb:

My first post!!! Looks sweet!!


----------



## Guest

I added the rocks tonight. I generally like how it turned out. I'm not 100% happy with how the left side turned out but I like it. Oh, and I also made a little rock cave by the anubias and apongeton.

Pictures will come in 1-3 days (whenever the water clears up and when I have time).

Here's a few notes though: 
* The swords look like ****, and I'm not sure if they'll live..
* The java fern is annoying me because after nearly 3 months it hasn't attached to the lace rock yet, and it too looks like ****
* The crypt. is doing well
* The anubias barteri is doing well. It's beginning to attach to the lace rock already. The leaves could look better though...
* The African Fern is doing okay. I really only added it just to see how it would live in the high pH. I may get rid of it though.
* The Anubias hastifolia looks like **** and is coming out soon.
* The Apongeton boivinanus is doing too well and looks great.
* The sand is not level. I didn't feel like pushing the sand back around the tank to try and make it level so I left it mostly the way it was. Eventually the fish will make it normal again.

~Ed


----------



## Guest

Water is a lot clearer now, still not crystal clear though. If I can I'll put pictures up *tonight*.


----------



## Guest

Here's the pictures. There's a lot of glares on them...oh well you guys will have to deal with it .

Let me know what you think... Give me your comments, suggestions, whether you think it's better than my old rock aquascape or not.

All pictures are here: http://toadscastle.net/marduk/aquarium/ ... 3-29-2008/

Here's the front view:









Another view of front w/ glares:









Looking from left side with a nice shot of one of my male Mchenga conophoros Otter Point (F1):









Left Side:


















Middle-Left:


















Middle:


















All right area with some reflections of my camera and hands and the cave area:



























View from Right Side, with a shot of both of my male Protomelas spinolotus Mara Rocks (Sulphurheads):


















If you want to see extra shots, go here: http://toadscastle.net/marduk/aquarium/265g pics 3-29-2008/

Let me know what you guys think. Better, worse? Any suggestions? Should I keep or dismantle the cave? And any plant suggestions as well as planting swords in sand suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
~Ed


----------



## Guest

Oh and sorry about the huge file sizes... They're all 6megapixels.


----------



## F8LBITEva

great shots!


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

I had to edit your post, the photos were massive (3mb each)leaving the 1 photo up, but the rest are links

sign up to photobucket and use its automatic resizer to make them a more useful size, and more importantly, quicker to download, I'm using a 2mbit connection(downloading at about 1mbit), and its taken a while to load on a few images

personally I would have liked a more open space in the middle, this would have made the tank feel bigger. the one problem with the plants as they are is that it looks barren, with just a few surviving, had you clumped them more it would look healthier (if you know what I mean


----------



## Guest

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:


> I had to edit your post, the photos were massive (3mb each)leaving the 1 photo up, but the rest are links
> 
> sign up to photobucket and use its automatic resizer to make them a more useful size, and more importantly, quicker to download, I'm using a 2mbit connection(downloading at about 1mbit), and its taken a while to load on a few images
> 
> personally I would have liked a more open space in the middle, this would have made the tank feel bigger. the one problem with the plants as they are is that it looks barren, with just a few surviving, had you clumped them more it would look healthier (if you know what I mean


Yeah sorry about that (the image sizes). I'n going to adjust the resolution on my camera now and later resize those images to maybe 1024x768 or something...

What exactly would you have me change? Did you mean the middle rock (move it or get rid of it?) or move/remove the little rock between the middle rock and anubias plants?

I'm considering getting rid of those two swords perhaps in favor of either newer undamaged swords, or different plants like crypts for example.

And madman, would you say I made the tank look better or worse?

~Ed


----------



## macclellan

I'm not a huge fan of the hardscape (mostly rock-type, but also placement to some extent), but the plants look fine. They'll look better once they grow in. I'd say it's an improvement over the first version. :thumb:

What happened to the vals?


----------



## Guest

macclellan said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the hardscape (mostly rock-type, but also placement to some extent), but the plants look fine. They'll look better once they grow in. I'd say it's an improvement over the first version. :thumb:
> 
> What happened to the vals?


They wouldn't stay down, kept dying and clogging the overflows and sump so I got rid of them. I may give it a try again someday though...

What about the rocks is bothering you? Is it the tall rocks or the new little ones?


----------



## Laurel

Marduk said:


> PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had to edit your post, the photos were massive (3mb each)leaving the 1 photo up, but the rest are links
> 
> sign up to photobucket and use its automatic resizer to make them a more useful size, and more importantly, quicker to download, I'm using a 2mbit connection(downloading at about 1mbit), and its taken a while to load on a few images
> 
> personally I would have liked a more open space in the middle, this would have made the tank feel bigger. the one problem with the plants as they are is that it looks barren, with just a few surviving, had you clumped them more it would look healthier (if you know what I mean
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sorry about that (the image sizes). I'n going to adjust the resolution on my camera now and later resize those images to maybe 1024x768 or something...
> 
> What exactly would you have me change? Did you mean the middle rock (move it or get rid of it?) or move/remove the little rock between the middle rock and anubias plants?
> 
> I'm considering getting rid of those two swords perhaps in favor of either newer undamaged swords, or different plants like crypts for example.
> 
> And madman, would you say I made the tank look better or worse?
> 
> ~Ed
Click to expand...

I'd look into pixresizer. It's free and does batch resizing. If have a mac, there's a program called Photo Drop that you could dl for free. Both you can set a default size (for the web, usually 600 pixels wide) and then resize everything to a loadable size before uploading.


----------



## Laurel

Marduk said:


> PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had to edit your post, the photos were massive (3mb each)leaving the 1 photo up, but the rest are links
> 
> sign up to photobucket and use its automatic resizer to make them a more useful size, and more importantly, quicker to download, I'm using a 2mbit connection(downloading at about 1mbit), and its taken a while to load on a few images
> 
> personally I would have liked a more open space in the middle, this would have made the tank feel bigger. the one problem with the plants as they are is that it looks barren, with just a few surviving, had you clumped them more it would look healthier (if you know what I mean
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sorry about that (the image sizes). I'n going to adjust the resolution on my camera now and later resize those images to maybe 1024x768 or something...
> 
> What exactly would you have me change? Did you mean the middle rock (move it or get rid of it?) or move/remove the little rock between the middle rock and anubias plants?
> 
> I'm considering getting rid of those two swords perhaps in favor of either newer undamaged swords, or different plants like crypts for example.
> 
> And madman, would you say I made the tank look better or worse?
> 
> ~Ed
Click to expand...

I'd look into pixresizer. It's free and does batch resizing. If have a mac, there's a program called Photo Drop that you could dl for free. Both you can set a default size (for the web, usually 600 pixels wide) and then resize everything to a loadable size before uploading.


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

as I said, photobucket, (or even better use flock to upload to photobucket, MUCH faster that way) I have the majority of my images cut down to 800pixels, the odd 1 for the photography forum I put at 1024pixels. and requires very little effort to resize them (you chose the size and upload)

with regard hard scape, I would have the rocks close together creating groups or piles (but make sure its not symmetrical), and as I mentioned earlier, I would have an open middle area, by doing that you make the tank look bigger


----------



## TheFishGuy

I love the tank, big pictures or not :thumb:


----------



## Guest

TheFishGuy said:


> I love the tank, big pictures or not :thumb:


What do you like about it? Any suggestions for improving it? Better or worse than my original aquascape?


----------



## Guest

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:


> as I said, photobucket, (or even better use flock to upload to photobucket, MUCH faster that way) I have the majority of my images cut down to 800pixels, the odd 1 for the photography forum I put at 1024pixels. and requires very little effort to resize them (you chose the size and upload)
> 
> with regard hard scape, I would have the rocks close together creating groups or piles (but make sure its not symmetrical), and as I mentioned earlier, I would have an open middle area, by doing that you make the tank look bigger


I always prefer to host my own images. I find it easier just to upload it to my own website using a FTP program. Currently I'm working on resizing those pictures... Thanks for the link to that program Laurel!

The big rocks are in no way moving. They're like 70lbs each and are now all covered in algae, so it'd be very risky to move them without them slipping. The middle rock though, the one in this pic:








I could completely take out, but would rather not, at least not immediately. If this is the rock you mean I could take it out, but I fear that it would make that brownish tall rock look awkward in it's current position...

~Ed


----------



## Guest

Laurel said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had to edit your post, the photos were massive (3mb each)leaving the 1 photo up, but the rest are links
> 
> sign up to photobucket and use its automatic resizer to make them a more useful size, and more importantly, quicker to download, I'm using a 2mbit connection(downloading at about 1mbit), and its taken a while to load on a few images
> 
> personally I would have liked a more open space in the middle, this would have made the tank feel bigger. the one problem with the plants as they are is that it looks barren, with just a few surviving, had you clumped them more it would look healthier (if you know what I mean
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sorry about that (the image sizes). I'n going to adjust the resolution on my camera now and later resize those images to maybe 1024x768 or something...
> 
> What exactly would you have me change? Did you mean the middle rock (move it or get rid of it?) or move/remove the little rock between the middle rock and anubias plants?
> 
> I'm considering getting rid of those two swords perhaps in favor of either newer undamaged swords, or different plants like crypts for example.
> 
> And madman, would you say I made the tank look better or worse?
> 
> ~Ed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd look into pixresizer. It's free and does batch resizing. If have a mac, there's a program called Photo Drop that you could dl for free. Both you can set a default size (for the web, usually 600 pixels wide) and then resize everything to a loadable size before uploading.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info about pixresizer. I downloaded it and it seems like a cool program. I just resized all the pictures with it, so now they're all only about 100kb or so and 1024x768 resolution.


----------



## TheFishGuy

I like the mix of rocks and plants yet it's still open. Very natural looking... The only thing I'd do is add more rocks. But then again I'm pretty good with rocks... not plants, so all my displays are full to the gills with rock formations :thumb:


----------



## alicem

Marduk said:


> Here's a few notes though:
> * The swords look like #%$&, and I'm not sure if they'll live..


Swords are heavy root feeders and perfer medium light, what ever that is  . You'll need root tabs for them. Be sure the tabs are buried under the sand so you don't add to any extra algae you may not want.


Marduk said:


> * The java fern is annoying me because after nearly 3 months it hasn't attached to the lace rock yet, and it too looks like #%$&


Yes, it's slow and the leaves can get black/brown spots on them. Trim off the unsightly leaves and use some black thread to tie them on. If they are in the return water flow or by a power head, it will take some persistance on your part.  


Marduk said:


> * The crypt. is doing well
> * The anubias barteri is doing well. It's beginning to attach to the lace rock already. The leaves could look better though...


Good news. Are the leaves yellow or what is the issue you have with them? If they are yellow you may need to add some ferts to the water collum...Go easy on that stuff, tho...


Marduk said:


> * The African Fern is doing okay. I really only added it just to see how it would live in the high pH. I may get rid of it though.
> * The Anubias hastifolia looks like #%$& and is coming out soon.


Try trimming any unsightly leaves and wait. New sprouts may appear from the main roots and grow ok. It's your call, tho.


Marduk said:


> * The Apongeton boivinanus is doing too well and looks great.


 :thumb: 


Marduk said:


> * The sand is not level. I didn't feel like pushing the sand back around the tank to try and make it level so I left it mostly the way it was. Eventually the fish will make it normal again.


Yup, let 'em do their thing.

Often times in aquascaping it is more appealing to have a V shape...
higher or taller rocks on the left, 
sloping or shortening in size to the middle, 
with the middle being open or the lowest rocks, 
graduating to taller to the right. 
If you prefer height in the middle, have it off center some with the rocks grouped, sloping to open ends and plants.
Your plants will fill in. You have slower growing ones, which is fine. They unfortunately don't give you the "instant gradification" that we all like to have. :? 
The suggestion someone gave of grouping them was a good one. But when you move them around it takes longer for them to get established.
You have a very good start on your plants in your tank. It'll take time, which may be irritating, I know, believe me!
You'll be happy if you stick with it and *don't sweat the small stuff*. 
It is not going to be perfect like those guys that inject co and have a strick fert regime. Many of those tanks are focused on the plants, not the fish.
You have a really nice selection of fish. The plants will come along in time.
:fish: 
Alicem


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## Guest

I got an idea for planting the swords. I am going to get shallow plastic containers, like the rectangular ones that come with chinese takeout food, and fill them with gravel and stick the swords in those.

Also, I am planning on getting new swords to replace the ones I have from AZGardens. I was thinking of 1-2 new rangeri swords, and one of their massive 2ft tall Amazon Swords, and maybe some jungle vallisneria to experiment with (to give it another shot at planting). What do you guys think?

~Ed


----------



## Guest

Anyway have any opinions on my idea of the new sword plants?


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

if you do go with planting the swords like that, fill it with a proper plant substrate to ensure the swords are well fed

I tried growing vallis that way in my Q tank, but despite having access to both crushed coral and Laterite they never took off. their still alive, but not really growing

and personally not liking the centre rock (as you have pictured above) I would probably move it to the rear left hand corner, (where theres just a few small boulders)


----------



## Guest

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:


> if you do go with planting the swords like that, fill it with a proper plant substrate to ensure the swords are well fed
> 
> I tried growing vallis that way in my Q tank, but despite having access to both crushed coral and Laterite they never took off. their still alive, but not really growing
> 
> and personally not liking the centre rock (as you have pictured above) I would probably move it to the rear left hand corner, (where theres just a few small boulders)


The swords I was going to plant in a shallow plastic container with gravel.

Speaking of which, what type and size of gravel would you suggest I use in the pots for the swords?

~Ed


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

Marduk said:


> The swords I was going to plant in a shallow plastic container with gravel.
> 
> Speaking of which, what type and size of gravel would you suggest I use in the pots for the swords?
> 
> ~Ed


I dont like gravel. as such, none of my tanks have it. my most successful planted tanks tanks use sand as the main substrate, my 50g corner tank has a layer of JBL AquaBasis plus. and my 6.5g has loam based compost.

if you put plain gravel you will not be giving the plants the nutrients they need. admittedly plants can absorb the nutrients through their leaves, however, given the opportunity swords will relish having a rich soil for them to grow in.


----------



## Guest

Well I will be giving them root tabs. And they should still be able to absorb nutrients from the water through their roots...


----------



## Guest

I'm thinking of taking 90% of the plants out (just going to keep a few anubias and apongeton).

Also, I'm thinking of taking the middle rock out (that psychotic madman was referring to) and moving all the small rocks on the left there, and taking the rock on the far left out and replacing it would 5 works which would form two caves for the fish (and in particular the catfish and plecos).

What do you guys think?

~Ed


----------



## alicem

What happened that you want to take out the plants?
Does your tank look pretty much like the pics on page 4?

I would add rocks, not remove them.
Pile those_ bad boys _up for caves and weave the plants in among and behind them.

Post a couple of pics if you have changed your aquascape.


----------



## Guest

alicem said:


> What happened that you want to take out the plants?
> Does your tank look pretty much like the pics on page 4?


I got tired of the java fern babies clogging up my pvc pipes and the java fern adults not attaching to the rocks, etc.

The anubias I'm keeping. The fish tore the ones that attached to rocks off, so the only one naturally attached to something is the driftwood one. The others have lead weights on them.

The Apongeton I definitely am keeping...it's a beautiful plant...I'm actually thinking of taking the one out of my other tank and putting it in this one... The one in this tank keeps on sending up more and more flower buds and blooming...it's a dinky little white flower but looks cool in the aquarium. I have to trim them after a few days because supposedly the Apongeton bulbs will go dormant after the flower bloomed.

~Ed


----------



## Guest

The tank looks a bit different now since I re-aquascaped the rocks a bit the other day. I'll take a picture later this weekend when I get a chance. Below I circled in red every thing I took out (some of the stuff I circled though like the smaller rocks I may have moved them into another part of the tank. I can't tell from that pic what rocks are what):









The rock on the left I took out, but may put back in in the center back area of the tank this time.... That is also the rock that I dropped (I made a topic in General Aquaria about it, the eggcrate and sand saved the tank from the 50lb rock I dropped):









~Ed


----------



## Guest

I was at my LFS today and they had an awesome Anubias plant. They were sure what it was just that it was an Anubias. They said they asked their supplier (Flordia Aquatic Nurseries) to ship them Anubias and that is one of the anubias they got.

Well I bought one, and am thinking of another. I'm just wondering what exactly they are though. They look a lot like any of these:
Anubias afzelii
Anubias â€˜Congensisâ€™
Anubias barteri var. angustifolia
Anubias â€˜Lanceolataâ€™
Anubias gigantea

I'll take pictures of my tanks new aquascape and the plant tomorrow.

Here are pictures I found on Florida Aquatic's website of the plants I listed above:
Anubias gigantea









Anubias barteri var. angustifolia









Anubias afzelli









According to Flordia Aquatic's website,


> Anubias afzelii was previously sold incorrectly as A. congensis. It is a great aquarium plant because it is so strong and easy to grow. Its wide upright green leaves make it graceful and a good addition to any aquarium.
> 
> Anubias barteri var. angustifolia was previously sold incorrectly as A. lanceolata. It is very easy to grow in an aquarium and its long slender leaves give it an especially graceful appearance.


----------



## Guest

I took pictures yesterday and cropped them and uploaded them.

Here's my latest tank shot:









Other views of the front:




































Up close shots of the new rock additions/rescaping:








































































Views from the sides:
Right Side:









Left Side:
My two sulphurhead males checking me out:









And the back of the caves on the left side with my Aulonocara stuartgranti Maulana getting in the way:









Lastly, here is a picture of the two large rocks I removed with a bottle of Seachem 250mL Prime to show you the size of them. Each rock is at least 50lbs. The one on the left is the one I dropped in the tank.









Oh, and here's the plant that I need ID'd...all I know is it is some Anubias sp.:









Let me know what you guys think. I am considering putting one of the larger rocks in but am not sure...

~Ed


----------



## F8LBITEva

I really like the plants! I would keep it like it is, im sure the fish like the open spaces like that. Id say the only reason to have lots of rocks and caves would be for fry to hide in and smaller fish to get away from bigger fish but you pretty much have 4 inch plus fish. Good job! :thumb: awesome tank.


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## alicem

Sorry I can't help on the plant ID. As far as I can tell, it could be any one of the anubia listed. 

But the tank looks great and the fish are fantastic!

It really puts the size of your tank in perspective when you placed the Prime bottle next to the rocks.  
The upright red rock is awesome.

The shorter anubia look good grouped like that.
Is there an overflow in the left corner? If not, that _might_ be a good place for another tall plant. 
If you have an overflow there, leave the 'scape as is. You don't want any more clogging problems, too frustrating.


> I got tired of the java fern babies clogging up my pvc pipes





> I have to trim them after a few days because supposedly the Apongeton bulbs will go dormant after the flower bloomed.


If your aponotegon does go dormant, you'll have some really nice plants there to satisfy you until it's rest is over and it starts again. :thumb: 
I agree with F8LBITEva, it looks very nice.
Time to rest and enjoy the fruit of your hard work. I know I'm enjoying your pics.
Congrats.
Alicem


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

I would consider putting the big rock(s) on the right hand side (not on the side with the little tank next to it)

maybe add some water onions (Crinum thaianum) on the left hand side

the only thing I will say about the rocks (on the left hand side) is they do look bridged (i.e. human scaped), if you had 1 at a 45 degree angle so it did create a cave, but not a bridge. 
am I making sense??

otherwise very good.


----------



## Guest

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:


> I would consider putting the big rock(s) on the right hand side (not on the side with the little tank next to it)
> 
> maybe add some water onions (Crinum thaianum) on the left hand side
> 
> the only thing I will say about the rocks (on the left hand side) is they do look bridged (i.e. human scaped), if you had 1 at a 45 degree angle so it did create a cave, but not a bridge.
> am I making sense??
> 
> otherwise very good.


Well there's little tanks on both side of the tank...which side are you talking about? The side with the one rock cave or the two?

Given the rocks I had available and because I wanted to keep mostly the same rocks in the tank (currently there is granite/basalt, some sort of red granite/basalt, and lace rock) and that kind of rock is mostly round-like boulders...not really anything you could make caves out of. I realize that the tank still has a man-made look to it but I really have never seen a large hap aquarium look 100% natural either, in person or in photos... So I decided to give it a mostly natural and clean look as well as a display tank look while keeping it open enough for when the fish top out between 7"-17" with few caves for any future holding females and for the synodontis.

Anyway thanks for the comment.


----------



## TheFishGuy

I like it, but I'd do what he said with the rocks, making them naturally look like they made caves... :thumb:


----------



## macclellan

By special request (Marduck PMed me), I'll comment on the aquascape. 

I agree on the caves looking a bit contrived - saying that no Hap tank is "100% natural is a bit of a cop out (nothing personal); caves can quite easily be made without 90degree angles.

The tank is nice almost "U Shaped" layout. It is a nice, 'clean/open' look. It is good but not outstandingly great (still better than >90% of the tanks on this site mind you!).
Here's what I'd do to improve it if it were my tank (i.e. these are my aesthetic opinions):

#1: I'd at least double the amount of sand and slope it up from front to back. This will increase the perceived depth considerably. As it is, the tank looks very "flat"/two dimensional.

#2: I'd pull the red rock and put the right of the two pulled rocks back in its place.

#3: I'd put the big rock groupings even more towards the corners, and have the small stuff you have in the center closer to the big rock groupings. I'd have one side slightly 'dominant' over the other, likely the left side in this case. You'll probably need more rocks to do this. I'd put the long-leaf Anubias sp. towards the left following the moved rock grouping. I'd put the A. barteris in the front right corners around the boulders. All of this accentuates the "U."

#4: I'd leave the middle 1/3 of the tank completely open - just sand.

FYI: The leaves on A. afzelli are quite thick and leathery (I have several) - judging by the pics, I'd say that it is not afzelli.


----------



## macclellan

Here's an example of "natural" caves:


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

it was the rock caves side, cant see any little tanks on the other side in the tank photos though...

this is what I've done with my 180








(I need to get some new photos, but need to get either another (matched) flashgun, or studio lights)


----------



## Guest

Well it's difficult because I don't want to block the corner overflows which suck not only from the surface but from the middle.

Plus, the idea with the added caves was for permanent shelter for the Synodontis decorus which can get as big as the haps (14"ish) and so the large haps themselves can comfortably fit inside it.

Here's what I was thinking. I have been wanting to making a DIY cave with PVC pipes, silicone, and rocks for a while now and think I will do it. The first one will just be a simple one intended for the juvenile fish in there and the Synodontis decorus, just to try it out and get the hang of working with silicone in a caulking gun. If that works out well, I'll consider buying larger pieces and constructing extra large caves and then move some of the large rocks around them to make it look more natural for you guys.

In the mean time, the look of the tank stays while I go through my test phase of DIY caves... That (man made caves), and rock backgrounds I have been itching to try for a few months now. I will never be doing a rock background in that tank though. I was going to try that on a small tank first to get the hang of siliconing rocks to glass, and if it goes well I may do it on my 120g after I eventually break it down and make it a Tropheus tank.

~Ed


----------



## alicem

Just a thought:
When experimenting with pvc pipe for caves, test it in water to make sure it does not float.
If it does, you know you'll need to silicone plenty of rocks, etc. on it to "sink" it.
Also, you may already have considered it, but black pvc is easier to blend in. 
:thumb: 
Have fun with it and show us your caves, if they work out for you.
Alicem


----------



## TheFishGuy

Scedual 40 pvc will not float.


----------



## Guest

alicem said:


> Just a thought:
> When experimenting with pvc pipe for caves, test it in water to make sure it does not float.
> If it does, you know you'll need to silicone plenty of rocks, etc. on it to "sink" it.
> Also, you may already have considered it, but black pvc is easier to blend in.
> :thumb:
> Have fun with it and show us your caves, if they work out for you.
> Alicem


Personally I've never seen any pvc that was able to float. Perhaps you're confused with flexible pvc?

Also, do you have any idea where I could find black pvc? I would much rather use that, but at the Home Depot and Lowes near me all I can find is white pvc.


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## Mr_Yellow_Shoes

macclellan said:


> Here's an example of "natural" caves:


do you have any more pics of that tank?


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## alicem

I'm not referring to schedule 40 pipe. (There are a couple different thickness of pvc.)
Please pardon my mistake in the confusion by generalizing with the term "pvc".
Schedule 40 is heavy and often used under water pressure, can be buried and driven over.

This black pipe, I'm referring to, very likely will float.
It's sometimes used under mobile homes and not made to be under pressure, like schedule 40 pvc is. 
It's cheap and made for vents or drains. 
Maybe call around plumbing places?
There is also black plastic fittings (Y and T configurations) that are used for gutter extensions. 
They are usually 4" diameter and maybe a little big for what you are looking for...
Unless you could cut one in half legnthwise...

If it's a hastle to find, you may be better off using regular pvc and black krylon paint for plastic...
Sorry if I'm way off base here, I was just trying to help.
 
Alicem


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## BenHugs

ashilli48 said:


> The moss ball is technically a big mass of algae, but pretty sturdy, so it will outcompete the algae, along with the other plants. Of course the lights being on too much may cancel that fact out. I have one in a heavily planted tank and it is very cool. You have alot of open space and I have heard that the balls float and roll with the current as if they were moving on their own. May be a great addition to your tank. Cool tank. Looking forward to pics of the fish!


I have a moss ball they are neat but some fish take exception to them and rip them apart and because they don't taste good the bits of moss ball will float around and clog your intakes. I would recomend them if you keep an eye on them. One playful Hap an pull one apart in minutes


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## macclellan

Mr_Yellow_Shoes said:


> do you have any more pics of that tank?


Yeah, there's a ****-ton of photos of that tanks various iterations in the Photo Album. Search "Planted Mbuna" with *macclellan* as author and it should come up.

EDIT: c.r.a.p. is consider an expletive on this forum?!? Bunch o' prudes!


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