# Tank mates for rams.



## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

I am looking for some tank mates for some bolivian rams. I currently have 11 rams 1 gourami in my 46g tank i wanted to know if i could ad some convicts to the tank or what amount of fish would be too many for that size tank.

Could i have any other cichlids in with them?


----------



## knfanning (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm by no means an expert but you look overcrowded already. I read that 1 ram needs 10 square inches of space. I don't think you can supply that currently to the 11 that you have. As far as adding fish goes I would add something that occupies more of the upper regions of the tank like say hatchetfish. I would definitely look into trading/giving a few of those rams away before you add anything.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

As adults, that will be too many rams for this tank. I take it you plan to remove some after pairs form?

Do you want to be able to raise fry from the pairs that you keep? If so, I wouldn't add anything. I'd let my pairs form - you _might_ get away with keeping 3 pairs if you divide the territories well.

I would not put convicts in with rams. You will have serious problems once they do pair off.

If you don't care about breeding, you can add some smaller tetras, cories or other tropicals that aren't overly nippy.


----------



## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

My 11 rams have been in the tank for close to 2 weeks now and they have not taken any spot for them selves. i have added even more plants and more rock for even more hiding spots but only 1 female has taken a spot and dug her self a hole but no pair yet here is hoping. When i do get a pair would it be fine to put rams and angels together?


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *Newbreed*,

How many rams are you planning on keeping in your 46 gallon tank long term?
What are the dimensions of your tank?
Do not add any convicts, long term they are more than likely to kill the rams.



> what amount of fish would be too many for that size tank.


You've already got to many cichlids, mate.


----------



## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

1. As many as i possibly can.

2. 36x 16x 20x

3. I wont be adding and more fish to 46 gallon tank.

I cant do anything right and should give up cichlids


----------



## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Newbreed, you've received so much GREAT advice here, but I don't think you've seriously considered it. People were suggesting that you had too many rams in your 20 gallon, and so you got a bigger tank. That's a great thing! But when you decided to add another 4 rams, you were back to square one. Too small of a tank for too many rams. You would've been fine growing out those 7 until you got a pair. The advice you receive here from experienced aquarists (not me) is extremely valuable! You should consider it more seriously. You're trying to force things to happen that just won't (example: 11 rams in a 46 gallon). Don't do that, and you'll be much happier.


----------



## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

But see its not just that my new tank has a filter regulated for 100 gallons and i believe its causing too much of a current in my tank, yet another problem for the rams. i add more plants and try to fix the flow i just dont know any more. i kinda think i should have just bought what ever and doenw aht ever and learned from mistakes and fish deaths instead of asking so many questions and stressing my self out more than the fish.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Newbreed said:


> i kinda think i should have just bought what ever and doenw aht ever and learned from mistakes and fish deaths instead of asking so many questions and stressing my self out more than the fish.


I "kinda" think you did that. :wink:

The good thing about rams is that you will _hopefully_ be able to tell before they start to kill each other off and will be able to remove some BEFORE the deaths begin.

IMO, a pet is a pet, be it a fish or a dog...We take on the responsibility of their care when we walk out of the store with them. "Fish deaths" might not be that costly to you in some cases, but what about the fish?

Cichlids are not your average tropical fish. They have different aggression levels and different requirements, and there really is an art to keeping them happy and healthy. But, as Isis24 pointed out, there's not much point in asking for advice if you aren't going to take it! It's great that you got a larger tank for what you initially had, but then you added more and from this post, you _still_ want to add more fish.

You had different options for this tank size, but by the time I even knew you had it, you had overstocked it.

As for the filtration, as you've seen, they don't need a heavy current. It will stress them out, leading to illness and other problems in the tank.

How close to the substrate does the intake tube go? I would bring it down as far as possible, then put a larger rock structure in front of it to shield the rams a bit. This might help if you do it right.

I like my tanks to be overfiltered, so I can't argue with that theory, but now you've got to figure out how to slow the water movement down a bit for the fish that you have!


----------



## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

I am done with the forums, i find this place to be counter productive. Yes im new yes i haven't followed every ones advice exactly. but still its becoming more of a head hunt then a fun hobby

apparently if i dont have my tank exactly like everyone else's in fish size color and quantity then i am wrong in what i am doing and im sorry i dont feel like sitting around all day for some one to finally answer my questions. i wont be buying more fish i wont be taking fish back i wont be doing anything im quite pissed off this was supposed to be a fun hobby and i came looking for just some advice not to be told everything i was doing is wrong. Sorry that im not a cichlid master and i guess i never will be what ever happens happens but this is my last adventure with cichlids


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

:roll:


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Newbreed said:


> I am done with the forums, i find this place to be counter productive. Yes im new yes i haven't followed every ones advice exactly. but still its becoming more of a head hunt then a fun hobby
> 
> apparently if i dont have my tank exactly like everyone else's in fish size color and quantity then i am wrong in what i am doing and im sorry i dont feel like sitting around all day for some one to finally answer my questions. i wont be buying more fish i wont be taking fish back i wont be doing anything im quite pissed off this was supposed to be a fun hobby and i came looking for just some advice not to be told everything i was doing is wrong. Sorry that im not a cichlid master and i guess i never will be what ever happens happens but this is my last adventure with cichlids


That is certainly your choice.

But I can assure you that if you asked for advice and then waited for answers here, it wouldn't be counter productive.

Everyone makes mistakes. In this particular aspect of the hobby, the mistakes can be a bit more detrimental to the pets involved than plopping a gold fish in a bowl and calling it a day. It can be costly to the hobbyist by not heeding the advice they are given, but it can also be costly to the fish involved. They stand to lose their lives.

When you post here, members assume that you want responses. They also assume that you have as much interests in making a success out of this hobby as they do, and that you care about the fish you are keeping in a glass cage.

I'm sorry that some of these responses haven't been what you wanted to hear, but in reading back through your post history, you have been given good sound advice.

When you had the smaller tank and were told that you had too many fish, you bought a larger tank. But then you added more fish, defeating the purpose of having the larger tank. :-?

As I said earlier, this mistake could be worse. Bolivian rams aren't quite as aggresive as some other cichlids are, so they might not kill each other, they'll just make each other very unhappy. Unhappy fish are stressed fish, and stressed fish usually turn into sick fish, and that can cost you alot of money on meds and treatment.

I don't think you'll be able to keep more than 3 pairs in that size tank. I had alot of difficulty making two pairs work in a 40G tank. If you make an attempt to remove the ones who are being picked on and take things from there, you might pull it off. But you'll never pull off having 11 adult Bolivian rams in this size tank.

These fish claim a portion of the footprint of the tank as their own, so when determining how to house them, you don't even look at the gallonage or the upper portions of the water column as being of benefit to them.

If you change your mind, post back. But don't get angry when someone tries to help you.

_That's_ counterproductive.


----------



## okcomputer820 (Mar 3, 2009)

Newbreed- Chill out on the coffee intake my man, relax. We all make mistakes in this hobby, it's not a perfect science. The purpose of these forums is to get advice from those who have "been there done that" to ultimately save yourself time and headache. I've been keeping fish for over 5 years now, and I STILL learn new stuff all the time that I could either do better or more efficiently. In fact, some of the technical articles posted in this forum I honestly have NO idea what they are talking about, WAY above my head :lol: All you really need is the basics bro'. Just take back some of those Rams and call it a day....


----------



## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

5 rams gone back to the fish store only have 6 in tank now. there u go that should make u all happy


----------



## Cook.MN (Mar 11, 2008)

Newbreed said:


> 5 rams gone back to the fish store only have 6 in tank now. there u go that should make u all happy


It will make your fish happier tho


----------



## Snakes to Cichs (Dec 29, 2008)

You came for advice and you recieved it. Did you want everyone to lie to you and tell you everything was ok with your tank? So "everything you did was wrong", big deal. Take the good advice given and fix it. :roll:


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Okay, now...

Are you interested in breeding them and raising fry?

If so, I wouldn't put much else in there.

But I can tell you this...The fry grow quite slowly, and the best way to raise them is to feed them live baby brine shrimp, which you would have to cultivate yourself. They have to be fed several times a day, and lots of water changes have to be done.

So, if you want a nice active tank with more fish in it, that's not the route I would take.

You can add a good sized group of some sort of tetra (one that isn't too nippy - I like rummy nose tetras because they school very well and lose the red nose somewhat if the water quality is going bad) and some cories and a small pleco. You wouldn't be able to raise fry, but you'd still get the typical ram behaviour, and the tank would be more interesting to watch.


----------



## mikesl (Nov 12, 2003)

GJ on acting on the advice recieved.

In case it helps... not sure anyone has said it explicitly... cichlids become much more territorial as they become more mature. People are using their experience to give you an accurate prediction of what you will experience in the medium term and long term.

2 weeks is not long - your rams are in elementary school... think about what will happen when they hit high school, start dating, and then want to move to the suburbs and raise a family....


----------



## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

I have halved the flow on my filter and pointed it directly at the glass to even further cut the flow my current in my tank in almost non existent now i only have 6 cichlids in the tank now and 1 gourami who is now becoming way more agressive with the lack of rams. they still like to hang oout at the front of the tank and only 1 has claimed a part of the tank for it self a large male.

i let my tank temp fluctuate from 80 during the day to 72 at night. why do they always hang out at the front of the tank


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

That's a pretty drastic temperature fluctuation. Why are you doing that? It may stress them out and make them sick, so it's not something I would continue to do.

Can you post a pic of the tank? If I can have a look at the decor, I might be able to give you some ideas.


----------



## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

Well i dont have a heater and only 1 time has it actually fluctuated that much i try to keep it around 76. I did have a heater but it was over heating my tank to the point where i found my temp one day at 96 so now i try and just keep my house a certain temp and watch the water temp carefully and add warm water as needed kinda like a water change i live on the top floor of my house so the house stays warm mostly. Not to mention summer is coming soon and it will be warm warm warm.

Today me and my mother did some well re work on our tanks. My 10g tank now has 2 filters 1 aqua tech 5-15g and 1 topfin 10

My 46 gallon has the Fluval 405.

My moms 20g has a 20-40 aqua tech filter and her 10g has a tetra whisper 30

Tomorrow we are going to by some dog de-worming stuff and mix it with the tank water to kill the hydra infestation. I did quite a bit of extensive research and found that using 0.1 MG of Safe Guards Dog de-worming item for 3 days once each day will kill the hydra gone dead bye bye. Not harming fish or plants or snails or anything in the process.

You have to take out 4 cups of tank water dissolve the 0.1 mg in the tank water mix well and apply to tank.

I also think i believe i know why my fish hang out at the front of the tank. It is where the least amount of current is. ( picture at bottom )

I would also like to say i am sorry for the way i have been to you all and to the forum. I have been having a really rough couple months. My grandparents both of them are not doing well. I have the up-most faith that they will pull through this and live on for much longer but my belief has faded a little over the past months. I have also recently lost my job which makes taking care of fish and doing the right thing, even so much harder.

I have headed the advice of all you guys even if u think i have not . 5 rams the smaller of the 11 went back to the store I now have 6 and 1 gourami. They have not formed a pair yet that is also why i have not removed any more. I would like to keep the 6 rams i have an wait for as many pairs as possible to form and then remove the oddball ones who did not do what i wanted of them ( those meanies). I think i have 3 females and 3 males but i am not quite sure. I Most likely wont be adding any more fish to my tank as i cant afford it right now and dont want to further make any more mistakes.

My 10g tank has 4 Lamprogus Ornatipinis occupying it right now. All of which are still juvenile by FAR and i know i will have to remove 2 of them and most likely even get a bigger tank for them. But what i will most likely do with them is Supremely Plant out the tank to give more than enough hiding spots for them once adult as well as fill the tank with abalone shells from my grandfathers back yard. He used to collect them from the Cove here in San Diego when he was a boy They make awesome homes for the Shellies if u prop them up on something. LoL I went back to preview before continuing and forgot where i was... Oh well time to get a picture of the tank .. Oh yeah lol i was thinking I do listen and im sorry just running through rough times.

Moms tank ( Angels )

















My Tank 









Left Angle 









Right Angle









My Rams


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You might try clearing out an open area for the rams, pushing plants and stuff back a bit. You're going to need to kind of distinguish some separate territories for them to attempt to pair off in, rather than have it all run together.

Otherwise, I think you're heading in the right direction. :thumb:


----------



## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

Sorry to hear about the family problems. That really makes other, normally minor things hard to cope with. Congrats on hanging around, you won't regret it. I had trouble taking advice when I started in this hobby, but got used to the constructive criticism after awhile :lol: We're just trying to prevent you from making the expensive mistakes that we all made :lol:

What's this about a hydra infestation? Did I miss something? 0.1 mg is a very very small amount, do you have a scale that accurate at home? The fenbendazole that I'm familiar with comes in 1 Gram packets. It's pretty tough to measure out 0.1 mg. More information needed here.

Good move on taking a few fish back. Good filtration too. That probably isn't too much current, depending on how and where you have the return pointed. Do you have a spray bar option? That cuts down on current.

I'd definitely add a heater to prevent the temp from dropping. Nothing you can do about the temp rising, but a heater would prevent the temp drop at night, which doesn't help anything.

Your rams are hanging around the bottom because they're primarily bottom dwellers. My rams rarely enter the upper half of the tank.

I'll second the advice to open up the bottom a little to create some territories.

You're off to a good start. You have good stocking numbers, good tank size, and good filtration. It's a lot easier from here on.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I would not use meds for hydra. There is no need to.

You just need to cut back on feeding amounts and increase your water changes. Both of these things are things that you need to do, anyway. The hydra infestation is telling you this.

Never add meds to a tank unless it's absolutely necessary...


----------



## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

I found out its not hydra it allge growing


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Don't use an algaecide, either. They don't do anything other than cause problems.

Reduce the lighting in the tank until the algae bloom is over.

Do you have an algae eater?


----------



## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

yes i do so it shouldnt be a problem

I made a hard choice today but it was for the best. I took back all 4 of my shell dwellers and put 4 cory's and 3 molly's in my 10g instead


----------



## Newbreed (Feb 23, 2009)

All my rams have claimed a spot of the tank for them selves but my gourami stirs things up too much i might take him back


----------

