# Setting up my 240 gallon, step by step



## Shahlvah

Here is the story.
I got this beauty at a price I could not pass, the day I was to pick it up I hired movers, since the tank empty and by it self it's 400 pounds..... the movers came...6 hours late, it was raining cats and dogs...when they saw the tank they just said...no, we can't do it...turn around and left.
The gentleman that sold me the tank was perplexed to said the least, I was about to have a heart attack!!!!
Next day a guy at my church saved the day along with his two sons, he came with his truck and pick up the tank for me, delivered it to my house....
here is a picture of the tank finally at my husband's home office.









More to come


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## ridley25

Looks exciting. Are you moving your current 100g stock in there with additions or planning something else? Looks like a large Malawi Hap paradise!

kevin


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## Shahlvah

LOL, i thought that for a second, but then I thought....well, I always wanted a discus tank what better than this big tank to have a discus paradise?


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## newforestrob

nice,I,m jealous,is that an 8 foot long tank,all male Hap/peacocks,with a group of yellow labs :thumb:


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## Shahlvah

Yes, this is an 8 foot long x 2 x 2.
Can you imagine the possibilities? I have the tank for 2 weeks now and I go back and forth, all male peacock-HAP-Mbunas.....or discus....
I even thought moving all my 100 gallon community to the 240 gallon tank and do the discus in the 100 gallon, but I still think that for such big fish, the big tank is much better.
Tomorrow is the day that I will set it up...work has not let me do it during the week.


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## 13razorbackfan

I remember my first 240g....me a friend went and picked it up in his small nissan pickup truck. Man...that thing was SUPER heavy. Picked it up from glass cages in tennessee..drove it home and it was A NIGHTMARE getting it through my front door. Had to take door off hinges because wrists were scraping on door.

Only bad thing was having to get a step ladder to climb into it to rearrange and whatnot. I should have kept it. I think when I eventually upgrade I am going to stay away from one that big and go with a 125g.


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## zimmy

That thing is amazing! Are you going to paint the back?


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## Shahlvah

Once we got this on the truck it was easy, I am a woman so they did not let me carry anything... the door was wide enough and the room where we set it in was a stright shot from the entrance. It is only a wall away from the kitchen and my RO system so I got the water changes covered. If for any reason there is a leak (I hope we never have one of those, but tanks age) the office has carpet, but everything around it has tile, it wouldn't hurt me to replace that carpet. Underneed we have a concrete slab and the tank showed perfectly level since we set it in....so so far so good....I can't wait to set it up....this weekend....

Discus...I went to a local breader yeasterday, he has gorgeous ones and lots of juvies, that is the route I am going...blue diamond, cobalt blue, snake skin blue pandas, turquoise snake skin and checkerbox...I can really go crazy there....juvies so my wallet might be big enough for what I want.
Tank mates? Yes, lots of them but very well selected. German blue rams, cardinal, glolight and blue emperor tetras, 5 F1 260 queen arbezque plecos, I am thinking some cories and I have to do more research on the siamese flying fox algae eaters....lot's still ahead. But that is part of the fun .


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## Shahlvah

Remember hubby is in Afghanistan, I can not move that thing by my self...LOL...but I bought a black background...


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## Vadimshevchuk

i would go discus in the 100 gallon since i assume that with a discus tank you will go with a planted tank. A planted 8' tank is gonna be a pain to clean the glass(planted tank more light=more algae), prune plants ect.... A 240 gallon african tank can be really neat and all you need is to do water changes.


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## 13razorbackfan

Shahlvah said:


> Remember hubby is in Afghanistan, I can not move that thing by my self...LOL...but I bought a black background...


Speaking from recent experience....if you want a black background I would try and paint it now before you get fish in it. That is if you have access to the back.


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## Shahlvah

What paint is a good one?
And to the answer to the planted aquarium is no...at least not with real plants, I have a job that keeps me at least 10 to 12 hours on the job, I commute at least 1 hour each way, I am committed to do the water changes....pruning the plants....I don't know....plastic plants sound oh so appealing.
I went to several craft stores in the area and I got some awesome good looking and realistic plants for cents on the dollar, now I am letting my imagination run wild. tomorrow I will make a trip to a local garden supply center to look for some nice river rocks....


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## 13razorbackfan

Shahlvah said:


> What paint is a good one?
> And to the answer to the planted aquarium is no...at least not with real plants, I have a job that keeps me at least 10 to 12 hours on the job, I commute at least 1 hour each way, I am committed to do the water changes....pruning the plants....I don't know....plastic plants sound oh so appealing.
> I went to several craft stores in the area and I got some awesome good looking and realistic plants for cents on the dollar, now I am letting my imagination run wild. tomorrow I will make a trip to a local garden supply center to look for some nice river rocks....


You can roll or spray it on. I have done both. When I get a chance to do my current display tank I am going for semi gloss black latex about 5 coats....maybe more. You can use flat or gloss in spray also. SOme like flat...some like gloss. I prefer gloss but flat is nice as well. There is not a huge difference in the two.

Trust me....I would paint before you get your fish in. I bought a black background for mine and I knew...just knew I should have painted it before I set it up but thought for some reason I would like it without. I was wrong.


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## moneygetter1

opcorn: I'm drooling!! I see discus (15/20) juvies w/ maybe some cardinal or rummynose tetras (50) to keep them calm. 5 or 6 bristlenose plecos all on a bed of med/ fine gravel or sand. An 5 foot piece of manzanita driftwood centerpiece for all to sail in & out of........ WAIT!! Let me stop spending your money like water! lol lol lol! "T"


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## Shahlvah

Wow, you are in my wallet, how does it sound that I already bought 5 f1 L260










100 cardinals and I have 15 juvies discus on order, I have order blue diamond, cobalt blue, red panda snake skin, red malboro, some tangerine, sun merah, checkerboard blue panda....how many do I have so far?...O Lord....I like them all! ( they are holding them for me until my tank is cycled...)
I will see once the cardinals arrive, but I think I also want runny nose and black cardinals there, and maybe either way electric blue rams or german blue rams....(or both if I can?)

The driftwood is soaking....I need to pick p the rocks....what else do "we" need?
And yes, I have a fine grain quartz sand, light beige, very natural in color.


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## Shahlvah

I am working LOTS of Over time to make this happen by the way....


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## Shahlvah

I guess for the paint then I can just get a can and roll it as you said, I think the rolling it's easier because you don't get the paint all over the place (I just painted that room) and I will try just pushing the whole thing to open it from the wll, I might be able to move it, that will be the determining factor if I will be able or not


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## moneygetter1

> The driftwood is soaking....I need to pick p the rocks....what else do "we" need?
> And yes, I have a fine grain quartz sand, light beige, very natural in color.


 opcorn: I believe "WE'RE" doing just fine.!! lol lol Love that L260. Great choice. "T"


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## Shahlvah

I thought so....LOL


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## DIAMOND_CICHLIDS

Very nice :fish: Don"t forget to post picture opcorn:


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## Nina_b

100 cardinals! Pictures when they're there, please

opcorn:


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## Shahlvah

I wil, the tank is cycling now, I will post some pictures of the set up hopefully tonight....and of course as soon as I get the cardinals in.


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## des

Congrats on your new tank. If I ever purchased a tank like this, I would book a week off work and swim in it.  You're so lucky. What are you using for filtration? What type of ladder are you using to get to the top? j/k :lol:

<chant> We want pics! We want pics! </chant>


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## Shahlvah

Answer to your questions....
Filtration: FX5 and a 90 gallon sump with an overhang
Ladder: definitely I will need a ladder, I have a 4 step one made of aluminium...I am not too heavy so I think it will hold...
Booking a week of work...to swim in the tank....I think this is an awesome idea, specially if I can find some power heads that give me current enough to do laps.....
Here are some "before" pictures

























































































So these are pictures of all that I start this with.
If you have work with a sump similar to mine, let me know because I don't know how to start it.


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## Shahlvah

Help me make a decision on this one....I am not sure if I want to use the rocks I have or if I should go with some nice, different sizes, Colorado river rock.
my sand is very light beige quartz ceramic coated sand., since I am using lots of plants and driftwood, I am not sure what would look better.


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## ridley25

My only advice on rocks (if you want it to look realistic) is that you choose multiple sizes of *one kind of rock*. Mixed rock just ends up looking like a garden.

kevin


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## Shahlvah

You are right on that one ridley25, I don't want to mix the stones I have with some river stone, I either way go with what I have already or buy all new Colorado river rocks.
It's just that what I have it's not making it for me, and they came with the tank, but they lack of a special form, or anything that tell me...hey, look at me....all of them are basically cube shape. These stones came with the tank.


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## jd lover

my advice to you is not to go with juvie discus in that big of a tank.


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## ridley25

You need to get to a landscaping rock yard. These places can be intimidating because the workers have a system, are quite gruff, and expect you to know how they work - most of their clients are contractors who 'speak their language.'

Nonetheless it's the best way to go.

Get some big rocks for the back upon which you can stack medium and small rocks spilling to the front or sides. Big rocks aren't going to shift if you put them in before the sand.

Google some pictures of the lake - the rocks aren't really stacked because there is so much room - a luxury we don't get in 4 and 6 foot increments.










kevin


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## JimA

Great build! Your LFS must love seeing you walk in!! Cha ching..


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## Shahlvah

I bought most of it for a disount price on line..yeap...he was making numbers when I told him I was putting together a 240 g...


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## Shahlvah

Well this is one of the first pictures, I guess this will evolve because I am not completely happy with the setting, it's close but not there yet....so for a discus tank...what do you think?








the canopy is off otherwise I don't reach the bottom of the tank....once is complete canopy will return to it's place.


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## ridley25

Well, I don't know Discus, but that is one good looking tank!

Kevin


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## jd lover

Good looking tank and its good for discus IF you're buying adults otherwise you're looking at a nightmare.


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## Shahlvah

Please explain...because this will be my first time with discus....why nightmare and why is better to buy adults?
I appreciate your comment because I am learning here....thank you all for all your comments, advise etc...very helpful  :thumb:


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## jd lover

to keep it short

juv discus need VERY clean water and it will be impossible to meet that stander in a tank like what you have now

impossible to stunt a full grown adults but dirty water still posses health threats

nearly impossible for the fish to find food in a well decorated tank like that.

unfound food/fecal = dirty water.

my 2 cent but if youre set on discus with the way you have decorated save yourself time and money and but adults. when all said and done adults will cost alot less then rasing juvie discus.


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## 13razorbackfan

That looks awesome. Do you have a pic straight on from the front?

Did you get a chance to paint the back?


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## jd lover

here's a detailed write up incase you (or others are interested)

discus immune systems gets better as they age. they builts their immune systems between the free swimming stage and up to roughly 4": and even later on, but at the 4" mark (give or take) they are then consider hardy. roughly from the free-swimming stage to the four inch mark should take about 6 months 3 months for 1"-3" and another 3 months to reach 4" from 3" and they slow down after that. At 9 months the shuld be roughly 5". 6" should be reach after a year and a half of age. 7"+ is over 2 years. now keep in mind different strain grows at different rate. another thing is thatthe weaker straing such as albino may never even reach 7 inch. the stronger strain such as blue strains has potential to reach 8 inch under correct care. the growth rate and max size also has to do with the breeding line.

at a young age discus needs multiple feedings a day of food with high protein. most feed their juvies food that has around 50% protein and some even feeds food that contains 65% protein. juvies discus (roughly the size of 1"-3") requires up to 6+ feeding a day. with that many feeding demand HUGE daily water change. some recommends daily others recommend 2x a day of ATLEAST 50% breeders will even drain their tank 100%! (i dont recmend this as i have never done it and am afraid to. but breeders in asia and germany has done this and will continue too and their quality speaks for itself)

most keep juvie in a bare bottom tank for multiple reason. it makes it easier for the fish to find the food. tank that has gravel in it, food gets lost through the cracks, certain food can blend in with sand. its easier to see where you need to siphone and what needs to be siphone. once again food/fecal that gets trap in the crack of the gravel or blend in with sand will fowl your water. its alot easier to clean and if its easier to clean it chance are you will be more likely to clean it.

a recomended rule of thumb is 10g of water per adult discus with taller tanks better than longer. a grow out tank of a bare 55g is fit for 10 discus to comfortably grow out in. picture a cd swimming in your tank and you will get a rough idea of how a full grown discus will look. its better to grow discus out in smaller tank appose to bigger ones are debateable. one sure reason that experts agrees on its tht with smaller tank the discus can find the food alot easier than appose to a bigger tank. my opinion on the matter is also that on smaller tanks theres less water to change so you tend not to "put it off till tomorrow". also its cheaper to medicate a small tank if issues were to arise than big ones.

im sure there are things *** forgot but im writing this off the top of my head if you anyone have question feel free to pm me or if the op allows it comment on the thread.

i am no expert by anymeans i just share my personal opinions and things that have worked for me and many others. i get my advise from kenny cheung and hans 2 well known hobbiest and suppliers of the discus world. i know some advice many may not agreed with but these are thing i have follow and have had great succes and my discus can speak for that.


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## Shahlvah

Thank you JDlover, all these information you are sharing is very useful, and makes a lot of sense.
I will make sure to get the adult ones, it will be at a slower pace, but I think for what you share that it will be so much better.
I've been reading a lot to learn about discus, they absolutely fascinate me from the first time I saw them. and yes, the tank is large but I thought that it will give them room to move and swim.
From the tank, the filtration and everything I have selected for this tank it has been with the discus in mind.
So I will keep reading and learning and hopefully I will be a successful disc owner in the near future.
To 13razorbackfan, I did paint the back, I didn't paint it black though, I select a very dark navy blue. I really like the way it came out, because when the light comes through the window in the evening you can see the blue (very dark,) any other time it looks almost black.
Pictures from the front....tomorrow? My phone battery is all but dead, but tomorrow I will take some and post so more.


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## jd lover

Youre welcome. Point of the forum is to pass information around. Discus aren't fish that you can rush with. Take your time and the results will be much better. I find that with so many incorrect information around its better to go straight to the source and ask an expert for a more direct answer.

A word of caution with a dark background your discus will appear more dark and if you have pigeon base it will pepper a lot more. Start with a quality stock and you will reduce your chance of running into problems.

If you need anything we have a SA section directed for SA cichlid or you can post here or pm me and ill help the best I can.


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## Shahlvah

Thank you, I do have many questons and I do believe that to be coached by someone with experience is priceless. I will pm tonight with some questions I have and I truly appreciate your advise. I know I am taking a daring risk with discus, because I have never house them, but if I don't do it now, then when?


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## jd lover

feel free to pm me whenever. I will help the best I can. But my opinion is the best teacher of all is experience. You may not get show quality discus first time around but once you get a rough understanding then you will be well off. My goal for my first discus was to be able to keep it alive lol. Through the help of many it was able to reach a respectable size of 6". It was a blue diamond so nothing show quality but wasn't bad for a first timer.


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## Shahlvah

LOL, I love blue diamonds and blue cobalts....and leopards, and snakeskin....I like them all.
I made a list and I have 23 different types and this is only the ones I really like...
I have a little problem, and probably is not discus related, but fish relates. I have 19 red eye tetras in the tank.....(I bought 10 but the guy gave 19, figure that out, I think he needs to go back to elementary school...he said he counted 10.) Well the thing is that I have been seeing them vanished from the tank and I couldn't figure it out....until now. I have like 9 of them in the hang over of the sump...how do I get them out?....and how do I prevent them from getting there again?


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## jd lover

personally i dont like using sump system for this reason. only thing i can think of is to use egg crate to give an inch buffer zone.


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## Shahlvah

I am thinking on getting another net, put both nets in the sump where the water comes in, then take the cylindrical foam pads out and let the system suck them, we can catch them in the nets and put them back in the aquarium...sounds easy, but I only have one net, so they will have to stay there tonight until I can bring the other net tomorrow first thing...agh.... :x :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## Shahlvah

Here it in in several takes....it is too long for my camera. The front of my tank


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## ridley25

One almost hates to spoil it with fish! I wish you best of luck if you dive into the deep end with Discus*

Kevin

*this is not a vote against Discus. I've never kept them and they sound difficult, so congratulations on your bravery and good luck.


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## 13razorbackfan

That looks GREAT!!! Also...you are the only other person I have seen with the same rocks I have in my tank. Those rocks will really make the fish pop. They look good with a bit of green algae growing on the tops as well.


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## AulonoKarl

Those plants look great for being fake! I'm impressed. Everything looks nice. Good luck in your discus adventure!


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## Shahlvah

Thank you, I will be putting more driftwood, I have two more pieces that are soaking right now, the rock is Colorado River rock, and yes, all the plants are plastic, from a very well known craft store, they where buried under a pile of silk plants, there were spiders all over the place....but I got a little courage, and this is the result.
I appreciate all your comments.


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## 13razorbackfan

Shahlvah said:


> Thank you, I will be putting more driftwood, I have two more pieces that are soaking right now, the rock is Colorado River rock, and yes, all the plants are plastic, from a very well known craft store, they where buried under a pile of silk plants, there were spiders all over the place....but I got a little courage, and this is the result.
> I appreciate all your comments.


Yep...I got my colorado river rock for .20lb and he had pallets of them. I am thinking about going back and getting some larger ones with more purple.


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## Shahlvah

When I went to the rock yard he had pretty awesome ones, big ones, but I couldn't carry them or lift them up, then I thought...if I have to lift them, climb the ladder and then lean over to put the rocks on the bottom of the tank, I guess is not a smart idea to get what I can not even lift...LOL, I am going back this Saturday, my guy had them for .17c a pound, I will get medium and smaller ones, just to finish the look. You can not tell in the picture, but my rock has speckles of purple and pink, pretty nice....


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## 13razorbackfan

Shahlvah said:


> When I went to the rock yard he had pretty awesome ones, big ones, but I couldn't carry them or lift them up, then I thought...if I have to lift them, climb the ladder and then lean over to put the rocks on the bottom of the tank, I guess is not a smart idea to get what I can not even lift...LOL, I am going back this Saturday, my guy had them for .17c a pound, I will get medium and smaller ones, just to finish the look. You can not tell in the picture, but my rock has speckles of purple and pink, pretty nice....


Yeah...I had a hard time getting mine to show up well with my el cheapo camera.


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## lilcountrygal

That tank looks absolutely amazing


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## Shahlvah

Well my camara is my phone camara...nothing more. I think it even does video, I should try.
The tank has changed, I put the driftwood in, pictures to come, the water got all cloudy...is this normal?


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## moneygetter1

> The tank has changed, I put the driftwood in, pictures to come, the water got all cloudy...is this normal?


 opcorn: yep, it'll settlle in a day or so. sometimes W/C is necessary but nothing to lose sleep over. Amazing job so far (you spent our money well) lol lol. Can't wait for the "SHOW"!!!! "T"


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## Shahlvah

I haven't finish yet....LOL here are so more pictures....

























These are some of the 100 cardinals

















[/img]http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj590/Shahlvah/240-1.jpg

And a baby cory cat, cute....
[img]http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj590/Shahlvah/corycat.jpg


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## moneygetter1

WOWOW!!!! Luv the baby. lol
Similar project in the works but much smaller scale.





































Not quite ready for discus yet but it's getting there.


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## Shahlvah

I love that you have real plants, I wanted that in the beginning, but I had to get real, all those hours at work, discus and natural plants....I will need a day with 48 hours...LOL so I opted for the plastic ones, still I will have to was and scrub, but that is fine....
I like your setting and the rams....I want to add rams too, is that a German Blue ram?


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## moneygetter1

opcorn: Yep. There are some ghost shrimp in there somewhere (I just saw one scamper by) & 1 spotted , 1 striped raphael cat. I hear you on the xtra work w/ live plants. I want them to get a bit more established but I think I'll be ok. "T"


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## Shahlvah

I love ghost shrimp, I have 3 that got into the bag when I bought the cardinals, they are awesome, but in this big tank and with so many hiding places, only God know where they are, I saw one yesterday he was eating fish food.

ON regards with the tank, I think I am going to stop spending money on it...my next "pennies" will go towards start stocking the tank. Right now I have the cardinals, about 14 diamond tetras and some 20 glow eye tetras, plus the Cory's. I haven't bring the L0260 since they were pricey and I want to make sure that the tank is fully established before anything else. Those will come at the same time that I will bring in the first couple of discus.
Today I am installing a UV system. This will go outside the sump, I got a 36 watt that I know is an overkill but hey, "WE" are having discus in here, right? I know that in filtration and protection for your water's "health" there is never too much. And I rather spend the money now that I am making so much over time at work that later when they decided that we can not do any....and I will be missing that $$$

You never told me....did you like the tank with the drift wood?


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## Woodworm

it is a beautiful tank


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## Shahlvah

Thank you WoodWorm I appreciate your comment, lots of work have gone in it (and pennies..).  
Today I was joking that every time I work on it I have to gear up and put on a swimming suit...I always end soaking wet....that is the problem when you are 5'5" and the tank is 2 foot tall, I need a ladder to reach the bottom...but it has been so rewarding because I have done it against all odds.
I just sent the pictures to my husband in Afghanistan. I am waiting to learn what he thinks about it.

And yes!!! I have a 100 cardinals swimming there.
:fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## matt121966

kool


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## moneygetter1

> You never told me....did you like the tank with the drift wood?


 opcorn: Shame on me!! I LOVE your driftwood. I too am almost done w/ spending. This week

4/5 freshwater clams
12/15 X-Ray Pristella Tetra

Next week 03/30

2 x Blue Pigeon Blood Discus 4 Inch 
2 x Santarem Discus Fish 4 Inch 
1 x Marlboro Red Discus Fish 4 Inch 
1 x Brillant Turquoise Discus Fish 4 inch 
2 x Cobalt Discus Fish 4 Inch 
Will update at that time. Continued success w/ your fantastic project. "T"


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## ridley25

Wow, shahlvah, you're just killing it with your design - I've seldom seen fake plants look so good.

As much as I love mbuna, it's always cool to see massive schools of tetras.

kevin


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## Shahlvah

Thank you Kevin, I do have4 a Mbuna tank, I love it, it is full of activity and always fun to watch.
I really appreciate your comment, thank you so much.
My husband did answer from Afghanistan and his words were that I can do aquarium design for a business if I get tired of my job...and I think that was also a complement.
The tetras look awesome, it is incredible to see them school, and all of them do, the cardinals and the diamonds and also the glow eye. The tank has come together very nice, much nicer than I expect, and the plastic plants, trust me, they didn't look so good outside of the water, but that was all I could find, but once in the water it was a different story.

This is my mbuna tank: (100g)

































These are all juvies I have in there, acei, socolofi, mangainos, red top trewasi and long pelvic mdoka the are all starting to color up now so soon I will be sheeding some since I got 10 of each, I will be keeping 1 male 4 females except fot the mangianos that I will keep 1 to 7 ratio.


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## Shahlvah

This is one of the babies Long pelvic Mdoka, the picture is not so good and he lives in my 100g, but you can see here how he is starting to color up, he is going to be gorgeous, he is chunky and all the females follow him like he is the king of the tank.


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## jd lover

looking forward to your update


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## Shahlvah

Well this is the update, I have been unable to lower the PH on the 240 g, I have 3 large pieces of drift wood and peat granules in the filter, on top of that I added seachem neutralizer to bring the PH to 7.0 in preparation for the discus...nothing, the PH is holding steady on 7.8. Saying this I can tell you that my cardinals are stressing, the diamonds and the glow eye are doing fine, but the cardinals are all day hiding in between the plants. I have the temperature at 81.2 steady and I am running the sump and the FX5, I have the 3 250 watt heaters running in the sump plus a 36 watt UV system....I guess my next step is to go and buy a buffer and start treating the water, I wanted to lower the PH in the most natural way possible not to stress the fish more than the necessary....any ideas?

Because I am not bringing in any discus until the PH is correct and steady....so for now my discus tank is a "tetra" tank.....


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## Shahlvah

Ah and despise what my signature said the tank is cycled, readings are:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrites - 25
PH - 7.8
Temp 81.2


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## jd lover

ok first things first bump the temp up to roughly 82-86 degrees. discus do best at 82+.

secondly DONT (DO NOT) mess with the ph your discus should be able to handle 7.8 with no problem. mines at 7.8-8 and theyre thriving.

thirdly the diamond tetras (depend on how many you have) might stress the discus out. i had 25 in my tanks and they were schooling and swimming non stop so i removed them.


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## Shahlvah

Thank you jd lover, I have 14 diamonds, they swim but then they like to hang out in the far end of the tank where the output of the sump and the filter are, I think they like the current that the outputs make, the glow eye...I don't know with those dudes, I have around 22 but they like to stay pretty much in the higher part of the tank were there are plants also where the outputs are, you can just see them like in formation hanging back there. The cardinals school
So 7.8 is good, I would think specially with discus raised in this area, they should be used to the PH, make sense. (there is so much material and everybody says this and that...gets confusing...so I REALLY, appreciate you giving me all these advise because I am going to go with it, since you are housing discus and having success.)
Since my tank is a new tank and I have it running for about a month now, and even though I seed the tank with media from my 100 g and also I got the Dr. Tim's one and only to cycle quicker the tank (which happen really quickly, in about 7-10 days max) Do you think I should still wait for a little while so the water is more "seasoned" and the aquarium more established before bringing the discus? I found a breeder that has very nice fish, all ages and sizes, and his prices are not bad, since I been buying the cardinals from him he told me that he will work in the price with me because I told him I did not want very young individuals but more mature ones, like young adults (I told him between 4-6 inches) (I hope this size is right.)
I also made contact with Jack Wattley discus in Fl, and Mr. Posada sent me a ton of pictures of the discus they have available at this time, my concern is again the PH since the water in FL has completely different characteristics than here in Texas where we have hard water right from the faucet.

In the case the diamonds prove to be too much for the discus, my local dish store will take them back and give me store credit, maybe I can exchange one of them for one discus or something,,


----------



## jd lover

never buy discus from pet stores.

since that is said if your breeder is a reputable one and has nice stock its a good idea to start with him. if you dont mind paying the 60-80 dollar on shipping jack wattly would diffinately be my first choice. very respectable seasonal in the discus world. (he even made a few strains =]). no matter where you get them make sure that the are healthy specimen and to buy them all at once from the same source to reduce the chance of cross contamination.

discus like all fish prefer a stable water condition appose to ideal ones. i get my discus out of state and through proper acclimination i have had no issues bringing in discus that are bread in water of 7-7.5 to adjust to my 7.8-8.

with discus it does gets confusing with the material you hear. theres not a certain way to raise them so there is no hard fast rules to follow so experience is the best way to tackle it. what i tell people who wants to dive into discus is this:

feed multiple quality high protein food in small amounts multiple times a day.
keep the water condition stable
and always do water change.

it really isnt that complicated.

as to whether to keep your tank going for a bit longer or not im not expert in the whole chemistry erea so my advice to you is when youre performing massive (75-90%) water change a day, if your bio isnt ideal yet you can still get away with it. but with it already been running for a month with a seeded filter id say youre ready. i would still do massive water change the first few days you add the discus in just so the bio can catch up.


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## Shahlvah

That is great, I think that when you are investing money in the fish you really like, might as well get the best. 
I am not sure I will be able to get them all at once because of the price, so what I might do is just wait a little and put a couple of checks aside so I can at least get them in two batches. Now my first intention for now is not to have a breeding program but more focus on an awesome show tank, that will blow my husband's mind when he comes back from Afghanistan, I think I have been super careful selecting everything that has gone into this tank, from the sand, the size of the sand, the quality and color, to the plants and driftwood not to talk about the equipment I have in the bottom running or this tank, I have done a lot of reading on regards not only the discus, but also the best tank mates.
On regards to the water quality I am ready for the water changes and to improve the quality of my water even though when I first filled the tank I did it with tap water, I have been replenishing it with RO water, I have a 6 step RO system that I use solely for this tank. Of course my reservoir is not such a large one that I could replenish 75% out of the 240 gallons, but I have a good 5 gallon tank, that everyday I add some to the sump, a little to compensate for the evaporation.
I am very excited about getting this tank together, because this was my first choice before I even started with my mbuna tank, and then I though that I could just settle with just the mbunas (that I absolutely love and they are so fun to watch)) but when this tank got along and I was able to get it, I could only think on setting it up for my discus...and now I am so close.
I appreciate all your words of advise, I will still probably be making a lot more questions as I go, but I've been taking notes.
Thank you so much.

Do you know what type of discus is this one?










Is this a blue diamond or a blue cobalt...or something else?


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## jd lover

you dont need to use alot of ro water tap will work fine for them. its all i use =p.

as to the picture i believe its a blue cobalt due to the eys. in a good quality blue diamond/blue diamond deep blue gene the eye will be solid red oppose to the broken orange that one has.


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## Shahlvah

WOW this is information you don't find any other place.....please continue...
What do I have to look into the discus to know that I am buying a good quality discus?
I guess that buying from Mr. Wattley all will be good, but is there something else I need to know?


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## jd lover

shape of the body is a good start. if your buying from jack wattly i wouldnt worry but if youre buying from a local dealer ask him to feed the fish in front of you. if the discus attacks the food like its been starving thats a good sign. make sure its not skinny. check its color. if its too colorful for its ags then its a dead give away that its not right. if its too dark then it could be sick or really stressed. discus colors up at different age but if a 2 inch discus has the color of a 6 inch discus its either stunt or been fedd hormones. see how active the fish are. if they come up to you when you approach the tank thats a good sign. if theres one shying away from the group and stays hidden or in a corner avoid it.


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## Shahlvah

This information is great, and for what you tell me I am able to see some trend in the local breeder:

- His blue diamond fish are dark grey or completely white, when I asked he said that it was the natural slime of the fish because the water was cold, 76Ã‚ÂºF
- all his discus have color even the 2 inch ones (with the exception of some of the blue diamonds)
- I did not like that the tanks look filthy, lots of debris in the bottom, he keeps his fish in tanks with just a sponge filter and no substrate, but you can tell when the fish move around that the tank has not been cleaned in days, I really did not like that, I am to the extreme with keeping my tanks clean because that is the place where my little ones live and breathe and eat, so it is just fair for them and for what I know about discus I understood that discus are very particular about the quality (clean or dirty) of the water.
- He has lots of fish in each tank, I will said 20-25 in a 40 gallon breeder.
- He seems to be eager for me to buy his fish, last time he even try to push me to write a check and then pick up the fish when the tank was ready....for me this was a big red flag.....is not like he does not have enough fish...
In my book if I waited this long to have the perfect tank for the perfect discus, I can wait, one week, one month or what ever time it takes, but get exactly what I want,
I think to be in the safe side all the way around it is "cheaper" to pay the shipping fee on the Wattley discus than gambling some other place.


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## jd lover

well if you dont mind paying shipping cost thens wattly is a good place a few others are kenny and hans

kenny:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthrea ... t-included)

hans:

http://discusfishstore.com/catalog/index.php

both are great guys to deal with and the quality fish they have are the best period.


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## Shahlvah

Thank you for the links, I will look into them, I appreciate all the help. I might come back with more questions if you don't mind?


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## jd lover

of course not this is the forum to help other if i mind helping i wouldnt have signed up =].


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## moneygetter1

opcorn: +1 Have done quite a bit of research before purchase. My choice is Hans http://discusfishstore.com/ . We've spoken a couple of times & he has viewed my set up. I am confidant he is the right choice for me. Generally to end up w/ quality you gotta start out w/ quality. Yes quality cost a bit more but in the long run it will be worth it. My order of 8 or 9 will be on 03/30. Good luck with yours. "T"


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## jd lover

+1 quality of the fish will be remember long after the price is forgotten =]. *** spent over 200 for a single discus and didnt blink about it cause i know im getting the best of the best. infact i wouldnt hesitate buying a 800 discus if i had the chance.


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## moneygetter1

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Not there yet but I wanna be like you when I 'grow up' !! lol lol "T"


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## Shahlvah

LOL...with all the money spent in this tank, it just wouldn't be right to buy low quality discus....I am aiming towards A+ !+ quality, what ever the price....now, just like moneygetter1 I am not there yet for an $800.00 discus...LOL


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## jd lover

lol well like most i got in it with cheap little ones and now im confident that i wont kill them lol.


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## Shahlvah

That is exactly my point, I want to see if they survive a year in my hands and then I can start thinking about those "others" with show quality....LOL
But I wouldn't like to get stock with a fish that is less than an acceptable quality fish just because.


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## jd lover

Shahlvah said:


> That is exactly my point, I want to see if they survive a year in my hands and then I can start thinking about those "others" with show quality....LOL
> But I wouldn't like to get stock with a fish that is less than an acceptable quality fish just because.


kenny and hans both have good starter fish (cheap and great quality) and they both occssionally get in the show quality. (expensive and top of the line)


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## Shahlvah

I was looking at their sites, I already saved them in my favorites and I will make contact with them, I want to make my list of what I can afford and from there exactly what I want.

Going back to the PH, this morning when I did my parameter in the tank the PH is showing at 7.0, I have done no more than the peat granules and the drift wood, so I think this is good. On regards to the tetras, I have not have an lost either, from what I have the cardinals are the most delicate and they are like a canary in a mine in regards to the water parameters, so that is a good sign.
Now I just have to wait for next Friday to place my order...(PD)


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## jd lover

driftwood lowers ph but over time depending on the size of the discus youre getting they will require enough water change that the wood wont have a chance to lover the ph lol


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## Shahlvah

I am heart broken, today I came from work to watch in horror how half of my cardinal school was dead as they got suck by the sump intake into the over hang, I don't know what happen if maybe while they were sleeping the current just drag them in, I have seen them swim with no problems around the area where the intake is, and it was one little one suck in that gave me the clue. when I took both sponge cylinders out to fish him out, I found another 3 alive swimming for their lives, and about 40 dead stuck in the sponges....I am out of words.


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## moneygetter1

So sorry for the loss. I guess this went on for awhile cause that's almost half your cardinal stock no?? Is it only the 'cards'? Hope you can figure a way to prevent future casulties. "T"


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## Shahlvah

Yes about half, I thought the lamp eye were snacking on them and I was looking to re-house the lamp eye....but they were not.
I put a piece of net like material around were the openings are so the little ones don't get sucked in any more, I don't know how permanent a solution this might be...I am just very sad that I could't prevent this....


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## shocker123

I feel bad for you on this one. You have worked so hard and have done a **** of a job to get where your at!!!!!! I only have one suggestion for you. With a monster of a tank, I would do a good size school of Rummy nose tetra's and Cardinals. I have seen many of Discus tanks like that. Old wives tale; if the nose is not bright and deep red on the rummy nose, they are stressed and to check your tank.


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## Shahlvah

Thank you shocker, I will look for the runny nose tetras, I believe that the breeder where I bought my cardinals have runny nose. I will pay him a visit to replace the lost cardinals and add the runny nose. What do you suggest? a good school is what...30? 50?


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## shocker123

I would just try to go somewhere in the middle. Also try to keep both Cardinals and Rummy's equal numbers just for no reason other than keeping the schools about the same size.


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## ahud

Do you have your PH and hardness listed on this thread? If not what is it?

Rummy nose are not a fish I would add to a tank with hard water, they are kind of fragile at first. I don't have time to read the thread at the moment, but I doubt that your cardinals were killed by being pulled into the overflow, are you sure something else is not going on and that is just where you found them? Did you test for ammonia and nitrite?

I would make sure I had all of my bases covered before spending more pennies! :thumb:


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## shocker123

Rummy's are a very good indicator if your tank is ready for Discus! They like the lower PH as do discus..... but.......... I have never had a problem keeping them with slightly higher ph than normal
Keep an eye on their nose. If dull and not bright and deep red something is wrong.


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## ahud

shocker123 said:


> Rummy's are a very good indicator if your tank is ready for Discus! They like the lower PH as do discus..... but.......... I have never had a problem keeping them with slightly higher ph than normal
> Keep an eye on their nose. If dull and not bright and deep red something is wrong.


So is a KH, GH, and PH test kit and its far cheaper than a school of rummys!

IMO you have something going on for 40 cardinals to die, even if it is something as simple as an ammonia reading. Be sure to check, I had something funky go on with my tap, I was getting an ammonia reading from my tap water for about two months, I checked a few weeks ago and its gone? Always better to be safe and test versus wasting money on fish.


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## Shahlvah

My numbers are:
Ammonia-0
Nitrites-0
Nitrates-20
PH-7
Temp-82.4

I have an API test kit


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## shocker123

Sounds like your on the money!!!! Personally, i would go for it!!!! 
Just make sure you inlet stays netted.


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## Shahlvah

Today I discovered that I have more cardinals than I thought I had, even though i saw good 40 of them in the sump, but for now I will not replace them, I am just going to sit and watch.... until everything is completely stable in the tank so I can go and buy my discus. I've been looking for the runny nose, but I haven't been able to find them, I went all the way to Carrolton to an awesome fish store and they did not have them at the time...


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## moneygetter1

opcorn: Make sure you're inquiring about the right fish now. 
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 5&aid=2546 Quite often they are confused. "T"


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## shocker123

Just keep looking and waiting. They will be worth the wait!
:thumb:


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## Shahlvah

I printed the guide you gave me, better save than sorry, that way I can see the real ones and be able to distinguishable them.


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## jd lover

looking forward to updates =]


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## Shahlvah

Well right now I just came up to take a shower, I've been battling the sump as I did a water change, It seems that it was working fine, when I saw that the water was flooding the carpet, the kitchen, the office.....the sump overflow, water is coming out the out take and water is getting into the sump by the intake.....so the pump is working.....but I just couldn't figure that out. at the end I disconnect the pump in the sump, took out the intake U tube and also the out take out of the tank, I have the FX5 working in the aquarium but I will need to re-locate the heaters for now..and I think that the carpet probably will need to be replaced....
all the fish are doing fine so far.


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## moneygetter1

opcorn: WOW!! Take a break! Have a sip! You earned it. Glad all the fish are well. :thumb: :thumb: "T"


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## Shahlvah

LOL...I guess I am getting my new floor after all....right?


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## jd lover

i dont know how can you say no to these guys:


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## Shahlvah

WOW they are gorgeous!!!
I can't wait to bring home mine!!!
I plced my first order for 2 blue diamonds, 2 red leopard skin and 2 red estriad skin.... next orde will be the sun meras, blue cobalts, and yellow diamond maybe leopard skin yellow....
Congratulations, your babies are gorgeous!!! Thank you for sharing.


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## jd lover

Who needs a new floor get discus instead =p lol

Word of caution makes sure your San merah is a true one. Most pass flamingos and red golden and such of as a San merah. True San merah aren't red but more a blood color. Ill try to get a pic of my baby to show you later today


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## Shahlvah

Ok. Thank you


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## jd lover

sorry but this is the best i can get hes the little red guy in the first picture i posted earlier under the gray guy. if you want to see his true color










notice the solid color even around the face. super flamingo dont have that and golden diamond arent as solid in color


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## Shahlvah

I love your fish, they are gorgeous and I love your way of thinking...who needs a new floor...discus, that is where the money should go...LOL
I have a trip to Ohio next week and I will b e there for 5 days, so the discus are not coming in until I get back....not that I don't trust the person that will baby sit my 3 dogs, my bird and all my fish... is just that I don't trust to put my discus in someone else hands.....


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## jd lover

question is do you trust your discus in your hands? lol


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## Shahlvah

AY!!! :?


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## shocker123

Any updates-pics on your tank?


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## Shahlvah

no updates as of today...but I will keep you posted.


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## jd lover

such a nice tank to besitting with just lame tetra


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## Shahlvah

I am in OH until Tuesday.....nothing I can do for now...wait till I get b[/url]ack...


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## lilcountrygal

I watch this thread closely waiting for Discus. Really, such a crappy time for a trip to Ohio :lol:


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## Shahlvah

Ay.....I am so sorry. It won't happen again in the near future....I hope


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## Shahlvah

Well, some news here....my tetras are having babies in my 240g tank, who"s babies? Only God knows, but yesterday when I removed all the plants to clean the tank....babies....babies....babies...like 20 of them, so I hurry in washing the plants so they can hide again....I think they might be like a week or two old because there is no sac and they are free swimming. I hope they are cardinals but I suspect they are diamonds....
Since I have the discus in a smaller holding tank tank my question is...will the discus eat the babies when I put them in the big tank?


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## shocker123

WOW, tetra's are really hard to breed! I was never able to get any of them to breed!


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## Shahlvah

All nature work...trust me, I had nothing to do with. It..LOL


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## Jayse

Yeah, I could never get my lame 10 tetras to breed either... but I believe she has what a 100? Pretty good chances on a breeding with that many!! Good job! opcorn:


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## Shahlvah

More than a 100...I think there are about 150 cardinals, 15 diamonds, 18 glow eye and 15 glow light, I also have like 20 harlequin rasboras...so the babies are all silver...here is a picture, can you tell me what are they?


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## Shahlvah

They are tiny and you can hardly see them between the plants, so there might be more in there...I never expected this....this is great, I am excited and looking forward to know what are they.
A little bit of history....the diamonds where kind of fisty not to long ago hanging out in the middle of a seccion where there are heavy plants, one male in special was very colorful, displaying his purple fins and chasing everyone around....
Then another day the lamp eye ones where doing the same thing, chasing each other, i though they were fighting....

The cardinals stick together but at times there are two separate groups, they like to hang out where there is dense vegetation ....and the glow light.....I don't know about those guys, they don't follow any pattern.
Any how, I will have to see if anyone will survive the life in the community tank, so far I don't see the adults chasing them and they are swimming around from one plant to the other. so maybe there is hope


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## jd lover

gratz on the babies and the discus! if you plan to keep the babies keep the discus out of the tank THEY WILL EAT THEM lol my have eaten 2 inch rosboras before lol i started out with about 25 and currently i have 15 lol they only been in the tank for 2 months


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## dwarfpike

It's starting to look like it's shape is moving towards being a diamond, but it's still too early to really tell.


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## Shahlvah

I don't know what is really going on in that tank...today the cories Julii where spaning....and the cardinals where having some kind of chase then let's us get together in that plant kind of deal..I am guessing that they are really happy in the tank otherwise no babies...
So what I am thinking is to move the babies to the holding tank once I get the discus in the main tank, that might give them a better chance.


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## jd lover

just because they spawn doesnt mean theyre happy . but yea move the babies over once you put the discus in.

im as excited as you are since im getting another shipment in today =]


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## Shahlvah

What are you going to receive?


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## jd lover

Shahlvah said:


> What are you going to receive?


got them in an hour ago

got:
an albino golden
white butterfly
albino millenium gld
spotted leopard
red cover
golden lollipop


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## Shahlvah

We need pictures ASAP opcorn:


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## jd lover

Shahlvah said:


> We need pictures ASAP opcorn:


well its bad practice to have tank lights on once they arrive but once i have them all set ill post pic


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## Shahlvah

You have to keep them in the dark? How much time? I idn't know that!


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## jd lover

You don't HAVE too but it reduces the stress on them. Especially since they spent the night in a dark box being toss around lol


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## Shahlvah

That makes sense...so you keep them lights off for a couple of days?


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## jd lover

Just for the first day. Sometimes I leave the lights on it all depends how the fish are doing during acclimation. If they're not stress from the flight I leave the lights on if they're a bit skittish I turn it off just to help them cope.

Leaving the lights on wont cause them to die or anything, it might just stress them out more and as we know stress leads to illness.

Hope that makes sense


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## Shahlvah

Well I got mine too. 5 to start with.

2 high fin blue diamond
2 red ring leopard skin
1 turquoise striated red

They been hiding in the back of the tank, I had them in a quarantine tank for about a week an a half, they seem good so I pass them to the big tank, at first they just went to the back and hide, all but one leopard and a blue diamond, they keep coming forward to check on me and if I was going to feed them. Then when I started to pull out plants to do my water change they loose the shame and they were all over the tank, I took some pictures I need to download, so you can tell me what you think.
I like them a lot....4+ inches all except one leopard that is a bit smaller.
They are all eating good. I think that is a good sign.


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## jd lover

if theyre eating good thats a good sign. fish will hide once theyre netted and move to a different tank. they should be fine after a while. mine 6" penang was hiding when i transfered him from one tank to other but once he settled down it goes right back to pigging out lol

look forward to the pictures lol i too have pictures i took that needs to be uploaded lol


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## lilcountrygal

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fish:

I check back on this thread waiting for the Discus lol. I have a 125 that I already have set up and some mbuna for... after following this thread (and your tank!) I think when I change it up, Im going to attempt discus.

I could certainly use tons of pictures (from both of you!) opcorn:


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## jd lover

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=244712

got some of the new and some old pic =p


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## Kimmah

How exciting. Eagerly awaiting your pictures opcorn:


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## Shahlvah

Promise...as soon as I make it home from work today.


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## jd lover

bout time lol


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## hauntingurcoma

opcorn:


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## Shahlvah

Here they are, the fantastic 5...
















































































[imghttp://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj590/Shahlvah/2012-05-03190505.jpg[/img]

I have tons more, but I guess you got the general idea....LOL


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## Kimmah

Argh!!!! They are soooooo cute!!!! They look great in there. So exciting


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## Shahlvah

LOL, they are, and when they are hiding they pick through the plants to see what is that I am doing, if they see me holding the can of food, they come out right away, they like exploring the tank and they swim either way, all relaxed and slow like gliding on the water or supper fast, like....Zoooom and they are at the other side of the tank. 
I just sit down at the desk and watch them for hours!!!!
And do you know that they change colors?.....they can have the most gorgeous colors or just barely color at all, I guess if they are happy or stressed...I know that the diamond blue's can get almost black if they are stressed. Mine have not got that way, but I saw some like that in one of the local fish stores here.


----------



## quentin8

Very nice, I bet they are loving that huge tank :thumb:


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## jd lover

how big are they? they look to be between 3-4" if so i would caution you raising them in a planted tank.


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## Shahlvah

They are about 4 inches....now I need more information, what happen with the plants?
They love gliding in and out of them they go from the back to the front of the tank and sometimes they are just ether in the back or in the front....
Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## JAyliffe

Those pictures make them look so much smaller than 4 inches! I suppose that is because you have that wonderful long tank. I love Discus fish, and yours are beautiful ones (as are JD's). It's great to finally see them enjoying that beautiful tank you created for them.

I hope that you have great success with your Discus, I'll keep checking back for more pictures opcorn:


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## jd lover

its that in a planted tank its harder to keep clean and smaller discus are more prone to stunting.


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## Shahlvah

Ah....OK
Stunting means ....?


----------



## jd lover

Shahlvah said:


> Ah....OK
> Stunting means ....?


they get deform as in foot ball shape and wont grow as big


----------



## Shahlvah

That is horrible!.! :?


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## Shahlvah

Tell me one thing, do they get stunned because you have to remove the plants every time you clean the tank or because...or because what? stress? last time I was vacuuming the tank the fantastic 5 were at a safe distance watching me, but full color, no darkness or they did not hide....


----------



## lilcountrygal

Absolutely gorgeous Shahlvah!!!


----------



## jd lover

they get stunt because with planted tank its harder to vac every piece or food/poop. if you can keep up with water quality they wont be stunt but in a planted tank its harder to keep up witht the quality.

i mentioned it before the forum had a make over and i guess my post got deleted but anyways, its not impossible to raise them in a planted tank just harder and most new comer developes problems because their tank is planted and 99% of the time the solution is cleaner water


----------



## Shahlvah

So this is what I have done so far, following advise from the expert, I took some plants out of the aquarium, not all of them but most of them, that way it is easier to clean but they still have places to hide, that they seems to enjoy. Thy have the tank for themselves all day long without nobody to bother them since I am at work and the dogs are in their crates, so I guess they roam the tank wide and large, when I come home, they are at the front, I feed them and they are cautious, the look at me and they are all together, in a team, looking at me for about 15 minutes, then they come out to eat, they are eating well and they finish all their food what I think is a good sign. I keep the dogs out of the office because specially the giant schnauzer has discover that there are fish inside of the tank and want to ....eat them....good grief. So the fish get scare with a big bad black dog trying to catch them through the glass. The office has become off limits for Chase. I am feeding them New spectrum life and bairn shrimp frozen every couple of days that they seem to really enjoy, as well as all the other fish. So what I do is I feed all the tetras first, I feed them with the NSL for small fish, once they have their full I bring the shrimp out, they eat some but the discus eat the most of it. It is fun to watch all those fish eat, the tetras know me well and they all come to one side of that big tank waiting for me to feed them, when everyone is feeding the discus hold back. Once everyone had their fill, then I feed the discus, and they know, it is fun to see them, they seems to "blow" the food and pick it up as it blows up....flying in the water? I can sit and watch for hours. :fish: :fish: :fish: opcorn:


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## Shahlvah

So sad, two of my discus die...one one day, the other this morning. I have been doing my water changes, checking the water parameters, temperature, feeding them.....no stress....i don't know what happen. I took most of the plants out of the tank as I was advised....I came home Thursday and one blue diamond was dead, no signed in the morning of being sick or anything..... then this morning all of them where eating and swimming all over the tank and about 4:00pm another one was dead. I am freaking out!!!! what is really going on???
My water parameters are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrates: 20
Nitrites: 0
Chlorine: 0
PH: 6:5
Temp: 83.2
Water changes every other day 40%

Feeding New Life Spectrum for discus , brier shrimp frozen, and the worms for discus the breeder was feeding them.
Any one can give me some insight?
The three remaining seem to be well, no sign of stress, or dark coloration, eating well, but also the ones that dies where doing that...... :-? 
Not a single fish in the tank other than the two discus have died...not even the tetra babies.....


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## jd lover

Nitrates is a bit high for discus. Try bigger water changes and see if that helps. What's the tank temp at? Also what are the worms the breeder were feeding?


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## Shahlvah

Black worms. switch to water changes to 50% - 60%, the other 3 discus seems to be OK, they are eating well and swimming around the tank. I stop feeding them the black worms, I am just doing the FLS and the frozen bairn shrimp that the discus absolutely love...... the next buy of discus is on hold until I am sure that the 3 fantastic will be good for real, how true your comment when you stated if I trusted myself to take care of my discus. I thought I was doing everything perfectly fine.....
So now the tank has way less plants, just about 4 - 5 all together, the driftwood and rocks. of course the sand. the sump working fine, the FX5 working 5....i love that filter, it keeps my water crystal clear....
My temperature is 83.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates, less than 15 (more than 10, less than 20....I'll said around 15?)
ph 6.7
chlorine - 0

The babies came out to be diamond tetras, 16 survived and are about the size of the cardinals....I still have them apart except for 3 that I could never catch...
My plecos L260 came....the are babies, about 2 to 2.5 inches the 5 of them....they took over the tank and you can see them in all the rock and wood formations....pretty cool.
For now all is good and all fish are swimming.... :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## jd lover

Why Did you stop feeding them black worms? I would stop feeding the frozen brine shrimp as that has no nutritional values. Black worms are actually Really good just not as a staple diet. I would feed a quality flake 3-4 times a day and give them a feeding of black worms on the weekends


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## Shahlvah

Basically because I run out of them and I wanted to hear your opinion on the worms.
I'll get some more on my way home today.
One question, flake food better than the new life spectrum? What food do you recommend since I will go "grocery" shoping for my fish I would like to buy what has worked best for you.
Thank you for all the advise.


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## jd lover

I use new lufe spectrum flakes for the garlic additives but basically anything around 50% protein is good for them. Black worms has 50+% protein but no vitamins so isn't good as a staple. Same with blood worms.


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## Shahlvah

So the worms will be just a high protein snack, to call it that way?


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## jd lover

well no exactly. think of the worms as steaks. while good for you, overdoing it will cause you to have health problems. (another reason is the worms are very addictive and if you feed too much/too often they might not eat anything else)


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## Shahlvah

Ok, perfect, I love steak so I guess worms for my discus once a week will do. Thank you so much. Will post more new or questions as they come.
Thqnk you again


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## jd lover

anytime thats what the forum is for =]


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## jd lover

hope things have gotten better =] looking forward to pictures of those beast to be lol


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## Shahlvah

Things looking good in my 240, my 3 discus are colorful and parading through the tank, they eat oh my gosh....do they ever, sometimes are a little skiddish when I come in the room and they are funny, picking at me through the plants...today as I was working they were swimming from side to side in the front part of the tank, then here comes mama...time to change the water,...that didn't seem to bother them, me hands on the water and all. They just get scare when I walk in, I guess is just a matter of time until they get use to me. (how long will this take?) They are starting to come forward, I think they know mama = food....little rascals.

I went crazy again and bought another tank....a little one for the babies, yes, the diamond babies still alive, the 18 of them and growing, but still to little to release them in the big tank so I got a little 12 gallon, a fluval edge, I scope some sand from the big tank, steal some rocks from the big tank and put half the tank of water from the big tank, also the sponge and the biomax are inside of my sump in the believe that it will help seed the tank....tomorrow I will assemble the filter and finish filling the tank, and measure the water parameter, I will not put the babies in there until the water is "safe to live in".....pictures to come. Once the babies are all grown they will be moved to the 240 to live with their parents and I will house electric blue rams and blue tetras , maybe some Harlequin rasboras or runny nose tetras, a cory julii and a mini pleco, maybe another L-260 or a bristle nose.

Just as a note on the side I had some amano shrimp in the tank doing an spectacular job in cleaning my plants....the other night my giant schnauzer was trying to pick up something from the floor....you guess right....on shrimp, it jumped off the tank...all 6 foot down, I though he has killed it since he is so huge and these shrimps are .... well tiny shrimp size, I got him to jump inside the net and put it back in the tank....the critter went straight to one plant to continue cleaning it....isn't that something? between the 4 amano shrimp and my two ghost shrimp...(these are really tiny but super cute)


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## jd lover

sounds like things are getting back on track. i wouldnt keep those 3 in there for too long as 2 will pick on one till it dies, then the dominant will pick on the weaker one. if i were you i would buy atleast 3 more and qt them right away. DONT SKIP QT NO MATTER WHAT.


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## Shahlvah

I will go tomorrow and buy them, I found a place where they have some very beautiful ones and not so pricey....well, about average.
So I will post some pictures


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## Shahlvah

So I have 7 discus now, after the quarantine I let them loose in the tank and.....the blue diamond took charge and didn't let them out of a corner for 3 days, I was about to take the blue out of the tank and put it in a quarantine tank....but today when I came back from work the 7 of them received me at the front of the tank...they are so beautiful.
I have:
2 blue diamonds
2 ring turquoise red leopard skin
2 turquoise striated snake skin
i golden panda (he is the biggest and the most shy of all)
They are about 4 inches and the biggest are about 5 inches.
I love when they swim together like "gliding through the tank.
pictures to come....the are stiill picture shy


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## Super Turtleman

The tank looks good. Current pics will be nice. Good luck.


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## jd lover

how lng did you qt them for? it doesnt sound like you qt them right...


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## Shahlvah

13 days?


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## jd lover

it usually should be a few weeks to be safe


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## Shahlvah

Uff, I went to short I thought that was enough since none of the new ones show any sign of being sick, week, or anything strange.
How many weeks to be sure next time, I want to buy more.
I appreciate your input.


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## jd lover

qt usually is between 4-6 weeks due to many factors. at weeks some parasites might not even show itself yet.


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## Shahlvah

Just learning here, so I guess at this point I will keep my fingers cross....Now I know for the next time.

By the way, the 4 new little guys are doing great, they even come out when I come home and wait for me in the front of the tank, If I am feeding frozen black worms or brien shrimp, they will literally eat from my fingers, they look so beautiful gliding through the tank, and the golden panda,...he is venturing from behind the plans so more often.

On regards for the Diamond tetra babies...well when the little tank I bought for them was cycled, they were big enough to swim in the big tank so I just let them loose and pray for them, they are all still alive and growing super fast, now they are the size of the medium cardinal tetras, they school together all the little ones and they are in the middle of the action at feeding times, sometimes I fear that one of the bigger ones is just going to chomp one of them but nobody pays really attention to them.
I think the Lamp eye tetras have been also having babies because I have way more than the original 17 I bought...I got almost 30, were do they come from???? where do they hide their babies??? those guys live on the top of the tank and they love to school
The diamonds are my second favorite of all after the discus, they school and shimmer real nice, they make "8's" around the tank and the plants, it is so awesome to look at them, specially after meal time, they are just....well swimming. :fish: :fish: :fish: 
The cardinals are growing and most all of them are about 2inches long and full color as well as the glow light tetras and the harlequin rasboras that are turning very orange, very nice, some are with a hint of blue, no more dead's or fish trap in the sump.
But the amano shrimps....those guys love to live in the sump intake, I spend a good time fishing them out of there but they keep climbing into the intake into the "back room" where the sponge filters are and they are eating there all the food that might get suck into the sump. Just two like to live in the plants along with my ghost shrimps.
Those are the updates on my big tank, I need to take more pictures so you can see the new guys in the block. As soon as I have them I will post them here.

I am sorry it has taken me this long to update but days just seem to fly and when I realize is so late and I have to wake up so early I just skip the whole computer thing and go to bed, I will try to make a better job and be more dedicated.


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## jd lover

sounds like everything is going great. if you bought your fish from a reliable breeder/importer your risk are minimal but its still russian roulette. keep up the good work you tank seems like its getting along nicely.


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## Shahlvah

I bought my fish from the same breeder I bought my first batch.
He has nice fish and keeps his tank immaculate clean, on all times I've been there. His fish look happy and well taken care of and he often has babies. He always helps giving advise and helping me select my fish. So I thought why stress fish on the mail? I might as well buy them here and just take them home, less stress for the fish. He always give me a white box to transport them so they don't get scare in the Dallas traffic, I think this is a good detailed if he is so careful as not stressing his fish.


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## jd lover

even with the best breeder they still all recomends you qt them. like i said you might not get anything or your tank will crash its russian roulette. just pay close attention and be ready with a plan b


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## Shahlvah

Yeah, that was my bad by ignorance, I thought a couple of weeks would be OK. Now I know I will do better next time, now is too late, I am having a watchful eye.


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## moneygetter1

opcorn: Been real busy but glad to see you're doing well my friend. Keep up the good work & please more pics of that beautiful 240!!! "T"


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## Kimmah

Haven't been on lately. Can't wait to see pictures of your new babies!


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## Shahlvah

All work, they slave me in that place. sorry guys, I haven't have a full weekend and my days go in between changing water from one tank to changing water from the other....
My discus are doing great, today as I am changing the water I could give them a good look...they are growing fast.
I have a bullies, this is a blue diamond, he dictates who eats and when, but the little rascal eats from my hand, he wiggles every time he sees me coming into the room and the other follow him, he is like the king of the tank, he auto-named it self.
in the beginning the others where hiding from him, today they just move away when he charges and keep eating...it's like they are telling him...yeah, whatever, you think you are all that but you are not.
I want more.....I promise I will QC them properly this time. :fish:


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## Shahlvah

Here I am again, I have two news, one good and one bad.
The good one first.
Last night as I was doing paperwork I saw for the first time the baby diamonds schooling in a very tight group back and forth in the tank, the adult joined them and all together I have now 25 diamond tetras all sizes....they look awesome.

The bad one
Discus are feisty. I have 3 bullies that keep the other 4 hiding when ever is eating time, they ram at them non stop, I have minimize this a little by setting food in both extremes of the tank, but what I have now is three discus, gorgeous, full of color and BIG, and 4 much smaller ones, that I believe they haven't grow as much because the other 3 won't let them eat. (as much)
I am feeding them full life spectrum, black worms when available, blood worms and braen shrimp, i give them twice a week the frozen food, I also give them now and then the frozen heart.

Everyone seems to be doing fine, even the smaller ones are developing good color and no fins are broken neither I see any kind of physical injury in any of the fish as I am thinking this is a "psychological bully that they are doing in the little ones... they swim in a tight group when ever there is no food around and they are curious and inquisitive about everything that is going on in the tank and outside the tank...they have learned to know me and every day they are waiting for me as I come in the door from work. if I am cleaning the tank, they all follow me around (except the golden panda that is the most shy of all, he hides, and he is one of the big ones) and I said he is a he because he has a very round profile, I might be wrong...
My question is....is this a normal behaviour for a fish that I thought was ever so peaceful....(I am doing so more reading, but I need the insight of the experts here that have the experience), I thought about buying another 2 or 3, as I have seem 3 specimens that I really like with the local breeder. But I want to make sure that everything is fine before bringing new ones into the picture.
All together right now I have 7 discus in the 240 gallon tank


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## jd lover

what it sound like is normal domanince the 3 big ones eat the most so they get bigger faster and has more strenght to fight off the small ones for even more food. its an endless circle. however once in awhile you get the small ones fed up with it and fights back for food and becomes the new domant fish. if the small ones still gets fod and arent forced into the corner i wouldnt worry.


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## MbunaReef

Shahlvah,

Nice job on your tanks. I too just acquired my first 240 (largest before was a 210). It's also my first acrylic tank. I haven't decided yet what to do with it. I'm thinking about either an Amazon theme with angels, tetras and some small cichlids (maybe silver dollars too), or going Malawi. I really like the substrate in your African tank. What is that? Also, I cannot recall ever seeing a 3D background attached to an acrylic tank. Anyone know of any reason why I couldn't do one. I've never done one before so this should be fun.

TIA


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## Shahlvah

Thank you, the substrate I used in my mbuna tank is ceramic coated silica sand, black and white (50% white and 50% black) I mixed it my self to get the salt and pepper effect, I really like it because if brings out the colors on my fish, it is small enough and round it and the mbunas swifter around, while doing their matting "nest" also the plecos can easily just get it out of the way by batting their tails supper quick,, it is smaller than the food pellets so the fish can easily pick up the food that in fact make it to the bottom. I bought it at a local industrial flooring company, they use it as it main compound to make the floors. it is inert, don't change the ph, and the fish love it.
This is also the same substrate I used for my 240 and 12 gallon tanks, only the colors I used was buff and light beige......to give it a more natural effect.


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## Shahlvah

I have updates on my 240 gallon.... sadly I have to inform that my golden panda commit suicide. the tank is covered and the lids are closed, but there is a little opening where the sump line is,,,he manage to jump off the tank, unfortunately I was not home to rescue him, when I came from work he was all gone....I am so sad, he was gorgeous. I did my readings thinking that maybe there was something bothering him, but all the readings are fine, the 6 other discus are acting normal, eating good, and following me around like little puppies wen I am in the room. I wonder what came into his head.... I am keeping up with all my water changes to keep them happy and thriving. Most of them have grown a lot, I can said that most are almost 5 inches except 2 leopard skins that are a little smaller. those are the ones the big ones bully around at meal times, I put food in both sides of the tank so everyone can have their share and when I feed them worms or shrimp they literally eat it from my fingers. Their color has also improve a lot....I guess as they grow older. I feed them NLS for discus, Tetra for discus (pellets), brien shrimp and black or blood worms, depending what I find these are frozen once or twice a week, they love this treat), my discus are slow eaters and what I do is feed the other fish first and in the other side of the tank, to keep them busy over there, and then I feed the discus, they have time to eat before all the tetras come and investigate the discus food. If there is anything left after they finish, the cories take part i n the banquet. I have 17 corie julii in this tank, 2 striated loaches( I got these pair because all of the sudden I got an infestation of small snails, I don't know where they came from since I don't have natural plants, but they erupted one day, I am assuming that I had some eggs probably in the driftwood that did not die with all the soaking and cleaning I did...the loaches took care of them, these loaches do not grow as big as the clown loaches.) and 7 fancy plecos.

Then going back to the diamond tetras those are thriving, I have 12 babies that now are about 2 inches long, they are schooling with all the adults now, they look gorgeous. all in total i have 29
My cardinals are looking as handsome as ever, they have all achieve their full size and the colors are just awesome, the red super red and the blue is beautiful, and depending on their mood, the blue changes from blue to a shade of bluish green,. those have prove to be more difficult than even my discus, I lost some on the way and now I have a school of about 65 (remember the sump massacre? I lost a lot of baby cardinals then) I might add some more to complete my 100 cardinals that I always wanted, but for now the tank is very stable and the discus are thriving, and I feel that it is fine now...later I might add another 3 to 5 discus too complete the number that I want to have there. I also added a small school of Rosalyn sharks (7) they where babies when I did, now they are about full grown, they look awesome all schooling together.
All my shrimp commit suicide (literaly) when my air conditioner broke and the house was almost a 100 degrees inside, I was cooling the tanks with bottles of frozen water, but the temperature just got to 92.6 degrees...only a loach died and all my shrimp crawled out of the tank (amano shrimp and ghost shrimp) I replaced the ghost shrimp and I have 14 roaming around...
The thing I like the most about my 240 gallon is that all the fish in there are schooling fish, just sit and watch is so soothing, peaceful....
I am doing service to all my tanks today, I will take some fresh pictures as I am done and post some in here tonight.


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## austings

Very nice tank!

Would you mind telling me where you bought the 5 F1 L260's? Shoot me a PM if its not allowed to be posted here. Thank you, and again great job on the tank!!!


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## Shahlvah

Upgrade my tank to natural plants, I have never seen my fish so happy. The tetras are breeding, and I think my discus are starting to pair up...I have to read so more in the pairing process for the discus.
Photos will come soon with the new arrangement with the natural plants.


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## TnAWill

I'm so jealous!! If i had that tank the first words out of my mouth would be Arrowana!!!! A few bigger cichlid bottom dwellers and done! That's the tank I would love to have but haven't found a good deal on a 250gal tank or bigger and can't even think of an Arrow in anything less than that! GL with whatever you decide to go with on this one, should look amazing!


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## car0linab0y

You can use Plastidip to paint the back of the tank. If it ever gets messed up, just peel it off and do it again.


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## Stussi613

That's great to hear!

As I was reading this thread from the beginning I almost replied in a few places that you would be better off with real plants. I kept discus in my 135 for years with two filters, heavily planted, 60 cardinals, 40 rummy-nose, some Cory's and one pleco. I grew the discus out from 1" to 6"+ in that tank and I could stretch water changes to a month when it was fully matured without my nitrates going over 10. Allot of discus people think bare bottom with 50% daily water changes is the only way to grow big, healthy discus. I think some of them forget that a healthy planted tank is the closest thing to the conditions this species inhabits in the wild.


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## Shahlvah

I agree with you. My tank is heavely planted and it is now that my discus are breeding, in the tank. I have 2 formed paird and both have lay eggs. just a couple of days ago.
I have another couple that swims together but I am still not sure if they are pairing or not.
it is interesting to see how different an aquarium behaves when you have natural plants.
I do 30 to 50% water changes, basically to remove debry every other week. I have diamond tetras, glowlight tetras, cardinals and lamp eye tetras in the tank along with cory julii and some rubber nose plecos and some queen arabesca plecos., I also have some loaches, striade and clown. This is a huge tank. and I have a huge sump and an FX5. It is now with the natural plants that the nitates - nitrites are at it's lower ever.
All my tetras with the exception of the cardinal are breeding also in this tank. The cory's have babies too.
I am saving for a CO2 system. I have been buying part's and pieces and I am almost about to install it.
I will take some pictures and share.


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## Stussi613

Sounds like you've found a bit of equilibrium with the natural plants.

One word of caution for you, from experience...when your discus start laying eggs it's really exciting. When you see wrigglers, its even more exciting. Seeing them going free swimming is about as rewarding as it comes when you keep discus, but don't get too attached to the baby fry because your tetras will figure out there is free, easy to catch food in the tank and decimate them in pretty short order. If you end up with a couple of confirmed pairs that get to free swimming stage and you want to breed them and try to keep fry, move them into their own tank.


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## Shahlvah

Yes..I have secure a 150 gallon tank...that I will use for the discus alone...Still need to cycle it...etc


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## mbunas4me

that is my "dream tank" 240 gallons of pure bliss!! now if i can just hit 6 numbers in the lotto :dancing:


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## Shahlvah

You don't need the lotto....you just need a little bit of luck and find the person that can't have a dream tank no more and needs to ghet rid of it right now..for pennies on the dollar.
That is how I got mine.... 8)


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## Shahlvah

Another thing..I just told my loving husband that we are getting the 150 gallon and placing it....in his office also.
I even was bold enough to ask him to ask his friends if they can go and pick it up...since we are going to need musle power to move it.
He just smile and said that they way I said it was "smooth"
I thinks there is only one way to said things....just as they are....right?
So it will be my discus breathing tank. (I told him that too) :dancing:


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## Stussi613

You might have more luck breeding pairs in 40g breeder tanks, trying to catch fry in a 150g tank with multiple fish in it will be hard, and stressful on the adults. At some point the other adult discus are going to look at the babies as food...


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## Shahlvah

True....maybe this is the right time since one of the big stores is having that one dollar a gallon sale....I just have to find the space.


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## Super Turtleman

I'd love to see a video of this tank. Any chance you can make that happen?


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