# river tank



## bell

i'm moving into a new house in about a week or so, i chose this house due to the vast amount of space for my fish and the 2 car garage.
don't have actual measurments but the finished basement where my oscars will be is about30ftx15ft and i'm thinking of building a tank to simulate a slow "river", meaning current in one dirrection.
my thoughts are 24"wide/20"tall/24ft long, it would be shaped like a u around the perimeter of the room on one end, it'll be plywood with flat glass, i could make the rear wall curved to keep the current smooth, the glass corners would have a 45 degree angle opposite the rear curve.
the big question is how big of a pump to create this slow current? jets could be placed throughout to keep it moving, have the overflow on one end and the return on the other......should work right?
best guess is about 500-600 gallons.

your thoughts?


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## ishguy

> jets could be placed throughout to keep it moving


Not necessary. Water in at one end out at the other. The water will have no choice but to move.


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## j rice

wow that's sounds like a cool idea. but like ishguy said if it were built out of level you would not have to worry about it.
but on the end of your simulated river you would need some sort of simulated lake for the water to go and be pumped to the other end.
the only thing that would bother me is a power failure. so you would have to figure out a place for all that extra water to go in case a power failure would happen. I guess either a real big lake or some sort of overflow.

don't give up on this we can make this happen. :thumb: 
just wait till the fish guy reads this. He will be wet


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## imusuallyuseless

> but like ishguy said if it were built out of level


 I dont think thats what ishguy was saying :? Just that if water was being pumped into one end and out the other, it would naturally move the path of least resistance, which would be back to where it gets sucked in. At least i think thats what he's saying :?


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## Stoolpie

It's a very cool idea. A quick calculation shows that if you want the water to move about 1" (linear) per second - a reasonable pace - you would need to pump about...  7,200 gallons per hour (2 gallons per second)! This would be about 12 turnovers per hour for the ~600 gallons - very good filtration. That's some serious pumping! If you're capable of building such a tank, though, you're also capable of setting up the plumbing. Good luck!


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## j rice

:lol: now that I read it again I think you are right. 
oh well, not the first mistake and surely not the last!


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## Stoolpie

Just because I was curious, I checked out some water pumps to see what would cover your needs and how much it would cost.
For instance, this pump can get the job done for $250-400 (page is a little slow to open):
http://www.pondmarket.com/store/ind...=53285bc-bd17b89f-785d-466e-aad4-92caace513bd
And a couple of links to other sites:
http://www.pondsandpets.com/servlet/the-59/Pondmaster-5000-gph-Koi/Detail
http://www.pondarama.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?store_code=POWGS&screen=PROD&product_code=150014
These last two are ONLY 5000 GPH, though (gotta get 2!).
I'm sure some of the DIY pros around here have tips for what to get and where to get it. Of course, any filtration that's done "in-line" will restrict the flow some, so you'll have take that into account.


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## imusuallyuseless

7,200 gallons per hour seems a bit excessive, but then again what do i know. But i am curious as to what your formula is so i can better understand???


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## Stoolpie

Think of the tank as a long, rectangular tube with a 20"x24" cross section. Now take 1" of length along the tube, so you have 1x20x24". The volume of this is about 2 gallons (use the aquarium calculator in the library). So, you need to pump about 2 gallons per second to have the water move about 1" per second. 2 gallons per second x 60 secs per minute x 60 mins per hour = 7200 gallons per hour. The volume of the tank (by the calculator) is 20"x24"x288"=~600 gallons. Good filtration requires a minimum of 6x tank volume flow per hour - 10x is better. The tank would need at least 3600 GPH for filtration, but then the "velocity" down the "tube" would only be 0.5" per second. Try moving your finger along your desk at that pace - it's a pretty slow moving "river".


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## illy-d

> The tank would need at least 3600 GPH for filtration, but then the "velocity" down the "tube" would only be 0.5" per second. Try moving your finger along your desk at that pace - it's a pretty slow moving "river".


That's equal to 0.04572 km/hour, or 45.72 meters/hour...

And for the Americans;

0.5 inch/second = 0.028 409 091 mile/hour

I wonder if building the tank out of grade would be better? It would have to be able accommodate the full vloume of water in the event of a power failure though...


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## ishguy

The velocity could be adjusted by objects in the water's path just like happens in nature. The same volume of water can be both a slow plodding river and rapids. this might be very desirable. If a rock, for example, obstructs 30% of the flow in one section (I'll let someone else do the math but...) that water will have to move considerably faster around that rock to keep a constant volume. It could be pretty cool!

The "lake" could simply be a sump setup with a regular overflow. Power off would not be a problem.

I have heard of a tank like this at our Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources office here in Toronto. I will see what I can find out...


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## lomax

these pumps are better the cimmeron is what i use, two would give you the needed flow rates and a backup min flow if one fails.

http://www.azponds.com/new%20sequence.htm

you need to make reating areas also so the fish do not get all bunched up at the out flow.


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## illy-d

YES - Lots of logs, roots and boulders to create currents and back eddies would be awesome! You would probably get to see some interesting behaviour that we of the all glass rectangles don't usually get to experiance!

Have deep spots and shallow spots, places that are sunny, places that are shady!

This could turn out to be an amazing project! - Something that I will be watching closely - and considering for myself if I ever have the space to accomodate it!

Here's a question; The overall length of the tank helps determine the total volume, but does the length of the tank have a corresponding effect on the overall pressure created by the water? i.e. Will the thickness of the glass be a major consideration for this project?

Not really knowing the physics behind it I would naturally think that the depth of water, or height of the tank, would have a greater effect on the pressure exerted on the glass...


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## bell

good info guys 
i can go narrower, say 18" which is the base of a 75, this would help with the flow, also if i do something this big i will be using concrete to create the entire floor/back wall, this will allow for crative hiding spots along with increasing flow in some areas with a single large pump, i still want jets though so keep things from settling.
i'll get intoi more details when i get home from work
thanks


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## ishguy

> i still want jets though so keep things from settling.


I think what both lily-d and I are both saying is the excitement will be in the different environments being created. This, although I understand your concerns, includes these, relatively, still areas. Fish often live in these back eddys.


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## chefkeith

I've been planning a U shaped river/pond for a few years. Right now, I have my tanks in U formation in my fishroom. The tanks are connected with water-bridges.

For the new river tank, I'd build the entire tank out of Acrylic. My plan is to build it in sections so that the the tank can be moved, if I move.

In essence, I'd be building 6 - 140g tanks that each are 6'x24"x19" and then fitting them together. Each tank would have matching holes routed out of the sides and the tanks would be bolted together.

I could build each 140g tank for about $220. Total cost for 6 acrylic tanks would be $1320 and total volume would be 840g's. Also, I could always add/subtract on more tank sections depending on how much room I have.

I wouldn't want all the sections to have high water flow like a river. I'd want the end section to be planted, this would give the fish a place to breed, and to act as a veggy filter. Another section would be filled with slate caves giving the fish a place to rest.

I'm not sure yet about Filteration. Right now I'm thinking maybe an H-shaped tank would be cooler.


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## bell

alrighty here is where i'm at, i was at the house tonite finishing up some paperwork i checked the space again.....a little narrower than i first thought.....about 12ft x12ft is the area for this tank.

thinking about the flow today at work.....the middle section would be a good spot for some creativity, leaving the 2 sides for slower movement, i won't have this tank planted as my oscars will dig everything up and kill them.
acrylic is not going to work for me, i'll be using plywood/glass so i can bend the rear wall at the corners, and the concrete will allow a good barrier and a consistant look.
the basic shape will be made first then epoxied, then i will build the terrain using concrete over aquarium safe expandable foam, plexi, whatever else i'll need. 
then the glass wil be installed, not sure how thick i'll need, i'd like to keep the glass/windows about 20" tall.
the filtration system would be below the begining of the "river", the overflow will be a seperate chamber at the end of the "river", this way i can pull water into from the middle/bottom, i think 2 3"pvc tubes would work well for the main returns, a little overkill but will have massive flow capacity should i beef it up in the future.
the sump system will wood also, it will have the typical filtration stages then dump into a very large capacity sump tank with a well for the pump, this will allow the pumps to stay submersed should the water level drop.
having the return pumps as close to the input to the "river" will let the pumps be as efficiant as possible.
too keep from having cold spots near the end of the "river" there will be multiple heaters both in the sump and towards the end of the tank.
this is where i'm at......this is going to happen just a matter of how fast


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## Stoolpie

illy-d - length of the tank has no effect on pressure.

chefkeith - looks like you've got a plan, too - very creative thinking!

bell - are you married? If so, I'm sorry to hear about your marriage! :lol: My wife would kill me! This project is pretty massive. Best of luck to you. By the way, with the kind of water movement you're going to have, heaters will probably only be needed in one spot


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## imusuallyuseless

> illy-d - length of the tank has no effect on pressure.


Just curious why i've read warnings about building a tank over 8'???


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## Stoolpie

Can't say for sure about that, but maybe has to do with the stresses that develop with a single piece of glass that big - they have to be secured very carefully. For this project it sounds like there will be a series of "windows" along the length of the tank, so eliminating the stress factor and also keeping the cost contained. Big glass = big $$$.


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## imusuallyuseless

Good point :thumb:


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## bell

i will be using 4ft windows, 2 ft for the corners.
how thick will the glass need to be? i'm figuring a hight of 22".
garf says 3/4" thick....seems it could be done with thinner glass.

i can get acrylic fairly cheap....has anyone found a way to bond acrylic to the epoxied plywood so it won't leak?


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## Shwaine

I made a much smaller river tank following the plumbing used in this article:

http://www.loaches.com/river_tank.html

Perhaps some of the ideas will be helpful in determining the plumbing portion of your setup.


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## Crackerballer

That last one seems like a great way to get your current. A series of power heads or pumps at one end with some PVC running under the substrate would be very nice. I want to see pictures when this happens.


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## afyounie

I read ur idea and it is a very good one. As for the idea of pressure to make the current, if you apply physics to it you can use different diameter pipes to increase and decrease the flow. The same concept applies to the use of things in the tank to make the water flow faster in some parts than in others.

Also the subject about the overflow if the power went out. If the power went out and the water drained it would be a good i dea to build the wet dry filter or watever it is called bigger to accomadate the excess amount of water.

If you need any help with physics of water I would look it up through google. I t would greatly help u anticipate wat could happen.

I am sorry if I restated anything that anybody else said.

O yea good luck with the tank. I hope you don't encounter any serious problems throughout ur project and that everything goes well after u are done.


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## bell

the sump will be gigantic....probably 200gallon, to keep the pumps operating they will sit in a well about 12"x24" which will be below the rest of the sump tank which will be slanted slightly to feed this well (this will give greater flexibility with water volume). 
i've done a ton of research with diy sumps, water volumes etc, the sump i made for my 75 gallon taught me a ton about gravity, syphons, and the power going out.......simple physics once it sinks in.

the rear wall/floor will be of concrete, there will be large "bowls" which will hold the rocks my O's like to dig in, probably some sand too......plus plenty of hiding spots, i will narrow up sections to increase flow in areas, as well as bringing up the floor, i want the rear wall to represent the underwater bank of a river. lighting will probably be a mixture of a couple flourescents and wide dispersion leds, oscars will adjust to any lighting as long as it's not way too bright.
i'm also figuring about 10" above the water line to the tank lid, my oscars like to jump......the goal is to give them a large area where they can swim a good distance without turning around, and they love to sway in the current, i think they'd enjoy it.


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## tg1119

this sounds awsome!


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## TheFishGuy

> just wait till the fish guy reads this. He will be wet


 :lol: Nice!

I actually thought about doing something like this but decided I needed area instead of a "river" What I was thinking of doing was making it go all the way around the room, part of the tank would go under the steps.

My suggestion would be to do just that, make your "U" shaped tank and just plumb the rest with two in line pumps simply for flow, and do the filter with it's own pumps but have the return lines pointed in the direction of flow. Does that make sense??? Of course sand for substrate would be out of the question as it'd be a constant battle keeping it in it's rightfull place. Also instead of one single large over flow at one end.... Why not make the over flows in the two outside corners of the "U". Make the box square then add a piece in the outside corners effectively "cutting" the corners for ease of flow. Since you'd be "cutting" the corners on a 45 degree make those the overflows for the filter system and use two shower drains at each end. Two for the intake at one end and two for the returns at the other end...

What do ya think?

This is a great idea you've got, and I'll be honest.... I'm a bit jealous :lol:

Here's a link to site for figuring gallonge.... Your original dimetions yield 598.44 us gallons 

http://www.firsttankguide.net/calculator.php


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## bell

this is going to be a fun project 
i was at my new house the other day.....(forgot my tape measure AGAIN LOL), i'd like to keep the room inviting so i was looking at where my couch and all is going to go too.
i may end up building a large L tank instead of the U, if i do that i will be able to have my couch opposite the long part of the L, best guess is the long section will be 8-10ft, then a 4' section at 45 degrees for the corner, then 6-8ft for the short part of the L.

less than a week away........i'm getting antsy


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## TheFishGuy

I know the feeling....


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## afyounie

I was wondering why don't you make a little pond or soemthing like that at the end of the tank. That way the water could be slow and u could make it deeper there too to replicate a natural pond. It might be good so the oscars could find a place to sleep at night.


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## bell

instead of going deeper i'll be going wider in the begining/end of the tank, making it wider will slow the current. i'll acomplish this by building out the rear/bottom with foam/concrete to make the tank narrower in spots.
my biggest goal with the tank is to create enough current to simulate a slow river, once i get the frame laid out i'll be able to visualize the background/floor better.

i also am limited to using 18"-20" tall windows......but a deep spot in the tank is intriguing...it wouldn't effect the curent and woud give some real depth.....maybe make it as deep as the tank is tall.....a small thick ass window is more feasable than a large piece, maybe 20"x10".......i would want some sort of low level lighting in the deep part so i could see my effort.
going to have to think about this one......good thought


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## chefkeith

How many plywood tanks have you built?


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## bell

none....but have worked with fiberglass/plexi/glass/wood for many many years.
there is a ton of good diy info out there, and i have absorbed most of it 
this tank will be overbuilt....probably 2 layers of 3/4 ply, then it'll be glassed and epoxied, then checked for leaks, then i'll build the background/floor.

the top piece is what will make everything rigid, the windows will be large enough where i can install the glass through them and not the top, this will allow me to make recesses to hold the glass lids/lighting and have it be very strong.

i understand the importance of thicker glass the deeper the water is, keeping the windows no longer than 4ft and less than 22" tall will allow the use of 1/2" glass.

a couple more days and i'll have more exacting measurments which will let me come up with a final design.


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## TheFishGuy

Do a drawing for us when you get your design down!!!!


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## bell

i'd be silly not to 
it's the only way to get an accurate count on cuts/wast etc so i know how much wood to buy 

just a little background on me.......i've been in car audio proffesionallyfor many many years, the biggest i've built (actually 4-5 of us) is an armored car for boss audio, yes boss audio is for more "budget" minded people......but when you have 60 15" woofers it doesn't really matter 
there was 130 boss ava-750 amps (each one making 850 watts at 17, 2 amps per woofer).....that's 102,000 watts of power, there were 6 amps powering the door speakers and the remaining 4 were spares (they would break on occasion).

it was a fun project, took our company over a year to get permission to actually buy the vehicle (background checks etc...real armored car), the goal was to build one of the biggest demo vehicles in car audio, the mission was accomplished as it was well recieved wherever it went.

here are some pics.......

the front side of the "box"....driver compartment.









the rear side of the "box"....all the amps, the plexi floor hides 2 850lb custom 16volt locomotive batteries









and the exterior....the "riveted" panels were all airbrushed on









anyway.....i'm moving in this weekend, my current tanks will be moved hopefully by wednesday.
i have the pull the engine/tranny out of my 911 for a tranny rebuild, then i get to start on the river tank.......i'm very excited


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## MrRngr94

How long ago did you build that truck? I remember seeing one like it in Daytona about 10 years ago.


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## TheFishGuy

I've got two 12's in my work van.... And people think I'm nuts :lol:


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## bell

yep that was me.....spring break nationals in 96 i think....maybe it was 97.
that was the second showing of the truck, the first was CES in vegas a few months before.....that was a long trip 
for the 2 years after that show i drove it all over the eastern part of the country taking it to shows etc.......the company credit card ensured a good time was had by all


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## chefkeith

I can't wait till you break ground on the tank. I hope your river tank will promote some new ideas that I can use.

The Fishguy sure has given me a few ideas with his big tank.


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## Slash314

Bell I have been wanting to read this fora while, and I finally did.  I plan on doing something like this when I am older. I can't wait to see yours done.


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## bell

well i have my keys 
then next few days will be spent moving stuff over, my tanks next week sometime.
for transport i'm going to use some smaller rubbermaid cans (one per oscar), this will also let me keep a bunch of my established water.

big question on drainage though, in my basement i have a typical well with sump pump.
can i dump my tank water (via pvc piping) directly into the well? this would work better for me.
there is a drain in the laundy room which the basement shower/washer/hot water tank overflows into, this would lead to the sump well i would think......so it shouldn't matter where i send the tank drain.

i'm sure fishguy knows the answer to this


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## TheFishGuy

I'm sure what you mean by "well" is you've got a hole in the corner of your basement with a sump pump in it. The purpouse of that is because your basement is too low to drain the footer drains via gravity. So your footer drains drain into the crock and the sump pump pumps the water high enough so it can get out of the house. Draining your tanks into that would be fine, but I'd suggest getting a bettery powered back up sump pump to put in that crock just in case. Example: When your power goes out the sump pump can't pump the water out of the crock. Nine times out of ten the power goes out during a storm. That storm is dropping extra water down to your footer drains... You see why I suggest a bettery back up pump!! Also, does your sump pump have an alarm on it? I know this is way off subject but I promiss I 'll get to my point soon, I just want to help your basement from flooding!

Ok, as far as draining your tanks into the crock... it'd be fine if all you're drain ing is by siphoning with a hose, but if you tried to do what I'm planning on doing with 2" pipe draining to it I'm afraid your sump pump might not be able to keep up. You'd simply have to keep an eye on it when draining, if you see the sump pum struggling then stop the draining for a few minutes to give it a break...

I'd seriously consider following the advice about a sump alarm and a back up sump pump!! I've done too many repairs in basements because people didn't have a back up. If it were me... I'd have an extra sump pump on a shelf to replace the existing one when it dies, because it will die eventually and if your prepared it won't be a big deal to swap it out. They always die at the most horrible time. One thing I learned from working with someone who's been in the trades for 45 years..... The prevention is better than the cure, so be prepared!

I also forgot to say.... CONGRATS on getting your keys!! It's a great feeling isn't it!! Is this your first house? Only reason why I ask is because I thought the happiest day of my life is when I bought my first house, but I was wrong, it was when I sold it :lol: Congrats again! Akron is only about an hour and a half from me, are you coming to the tank filling party? :lol:


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## bell

makes sense, good info thanks 
i'm going to run a 1" pipe to the drain for the washer, waste water from a toilet doesn't go through the sump......if so the well would stink to all ****, so the drain for the washer/basement toilet must go to the main sewage.....so that's what i'm using, i don't want to overwork the sump in the well.
also i have a 4ft x 10ft area behind an inside wall in the basement, this is where i'm going to hide my filtration system, plus is only 15 ft away from the main drain in the utility room.
the river tank will be along this wall........a little smaller area than the other side but will work nicely....
a rough measure says the first side of the U will a 3 ft base x 4ft, the oppisite side of the U will be the same, the middle section will be 6-8ft and about 24" wide.....this middle section will give my O's plenty of current to play in and also 2 large areas where they won't have to fight for territory.....this should solve the territory aggressive issue they currently have....if not one will get moved back to the 75.

i have plenty of room for the filtration/sump tank since it'll be on the other side of the wall......this will let me use gravity/plumbing to my advantage, meaning the sump water will be almost as level as the tank........my gears are turning........


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## TheFishGuy

Fun stuff!!


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## bell

UPDATE:

i'm more or less moved in, lotta freaking work.....i still have to move my garage stuff (ALOT), and some stuff in the attic at the old house.

last night i moved my 75 gallon with my 2 big tiger oscars, i used 45 gallon rubbermaid cans so i could save alot of my established water during the transfer.
tomorrow night i'm moving my 60gal, 55gal, and 2 20's.....will be a little easier since they are not using a sump setup.

next week i'll get my engine/trans pulled out of my car, then i get to start framing for the new tank, my space i'm working with is 10.5ft x 8ft, to keep glass cost down i will most likely have three 4ft windows and 2 2ft windows (for the angled corners), this will let me get it from a single piece of 4x8 glass which is currently the most cost effective.
i also need to do some plumbing work so it's easier to do water changes, shouldn't bee anything too major.

my tigers were a little mad with the move.....i didn't put their divider in (they normally fight alot) as they are getting accustomed to their new surroundings, but i'm sure they return to their old aggressive selves and the divider will go back in 
the ph levels went right to normal.......


















i'll get some more pics posted later....


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## luvbonbon

bump


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## bell

this sucks.......apparently my 60 gallon got nicked or something during the move, about 5 minutes after the tank was full of both water/fish i heard a dreaded "crack"........then woosh.....water everywhere, thinking quick all power was unplugged, and i grabbed the 2 rubbermaid containers i used to tranport the fish and was able to catch about 40 gallons of the 60, and at the same time get my 2 7" oscars and pleco out of it and into the rubbermaids.......my shoes are soaked, the carpet has a giant wet spot which (fans are on it and basement windows open). also luckily the basement has little padding with carpet so it should dry right up.....
what a PIA, i hope this never happens to anyone else......
the saga continues........


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## Onikun

Did the moving company nick it?


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## TheFishGuy

Oh man that sucks! I've been there. I always buy used tanks because I'm a cheap s.o.b. and I've broken one or two in transit right after buying them! Atleast the fish are ok.... right?


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## bell

no moving company as i too can be a chap sob 
the tank was used (paid $40 iirc off ebay), i'm just glad it let go when i was standing there.
the fish seem fine.....my albino oscar was alittle upset, the tiger which is currently in the rubbermaid is always mad, and the pleco is....well it's a pleco 
things are still pretty wet this morning, i'll be using the shop vac tonite to speed up the drying process (was too late last night).


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## luvbonbon

sorry to hear that Bell, I hope everything else goes smoother for you.
Moving SUCKS. :x


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## illy-d

Well, you just got through every fishkeepers worst nightmare.
And like they say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
I am sorry to hear that this happened, but I must say that I am impressed with your quick thinking - to save 2/3rds of the water and the fish is quite a feat!


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## Davidinguntown

Think about your tank as one long tank with a sump at the end of the tank. Place the sump (water out) at one end of the tank and the water in at the other end. Water will naturally fall into the sump and cause a current. All you need to do is calculate the size of the sump, 
http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/sump.php 
you could make the sump out of large rubbermaid containers. Then buy a couple of high capacity pumps and let her rip. As a bonus you could fill parts of the sump with bags of plastic scrub pads to create biological surface area out the wazuu. If your electricity goes out, the sump will fill up, and if calculated correctly, not overflow. Good luck on your tank, it sound REALLY COOL. Fill it with all sorts of river fish and it will be awesome.


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## TheFishGuy

> Think about your tank as one long tank with a sump at the end of the tank. Place the sump (water out) at one end of the tank and the water in at the other end. Water will naturally fall into the sump and cause a current. All you need to do is calculate the size of the sump,


That's what I was trying to say...  in at one end out at another, to add more flow do an in-line pump just for flow, no filter attatched, in at one end out at the other


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## bell

yes i've concluded that a big ass pump is the way to go, the in/out pipes will be at oppisite ends (was the plan all along), my thoughts on the sump is this.....the sump will be as tall as the tank, i can channel the water through the sump with verticle boards, this will allow the bottom of the sump to be just a few inches lower than the bottom of the tank which will allow for an easy fight against gravity, the sump will be approx 8ft long x 2ft wide x however deep, it'll be located behind the wall the tank will be against......

now for the 60 gallon cleanup......the bottom of the tank cracked all the way across, with 2 big splits near the center.
i suspect a rock or something was in between the styro/stand....when the tank compressed it was enough of a pressure point to make it fail.......SOOOoooooo......always check what is under your tank before you fill it up very closely, that is what i learned.
i'm going to pick up some plywood/fiberglass this weekend and turn the stand the 60 was on into a tank, i can use the glass that isn't broken from the 60 for windows.
i need to bang this out quick as i'm minus one big tank right now, and my 75/55 are both overstocked for the time being.
did i say this sucks? well it does.

QUESTION: will sylicone adhere to fiberglass ? i can have this done by the end of the week if i don't have to wait for the epoxy to ship, plus the fiberglass will be nice and strong.......i don't want another faliure 
thanks


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## TheFishGuy

Hey bell if you're willing to take a drive to orwell I've got a 55 you could use for a while... It's got a bunch of male convicts in it that I'll drop in the 240, if the small ones get eaten it's no big deal, The big males won't, they're the ones I want... pm me if you're interested...


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## lomax

silicone sticks to fiberglass great, just hit it with a litte 220 sand paper to ruff it up a bit.


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## TheFishGuy

That sounds funny.... 220 to rough it up a bit :lol: ..............Sorry, I'm tired, must go sleepy sleepy :zz:


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## lomax

the epoxy can get a glass like finish sometimes, depends how it dries and if it gets dusty :lol:

but the 220 grit will give it a milky texture, you could used 60 but that is more like scratches. it is really very small imperfection that help silicone stick as it goes into all the microscopic groves and dents on a surface.

you are wondering why it sticks to real glass then? well its a case of ether being rough so it has lots of groves to get into or a perfectly flat surface to bond to. Plexiglass looks as smooth as glass but is not truly flat at the microscopic level, that is why hitting the plexi with sandpaper can help it bond with silicone better.


----------



## bell

another little update.......

my garage is moved and somewhat organized, should have my engine/tranny out by the weekend......
i just scored some tripple pane insulated freezer doors from a local dairy queen, these will be the lids as they have a nice rubber seal, i'm going to remove 2 of the window panes as they're kinda heavy right now (60lbs each), i'll weld up some shocks to them if they're still too heavy with one pane.....
i'll get a pic posted of them tomorrow.

my basement is about dried out....have had a dehumidifyer/fans running since the 60 broke......
almost ready to start cutting wood


----------



## TheFishGuy

pics man, we need pics!!! NOW :lol:


----------



## bell

here are some random pics.......the first is my garage......









this is my new basement during the tank move from the old house.....









this is the bottom of the broken 60 gal........









and this my ph meter after the move


----------



## keg75

did you ever get your river tank going?


----------



## bell

geez......i just got moved in.......
i have a stack of 4x4's ready to start framing, i'm not starting on it until the basement is fully dryed out though. if i end up having to pull the carpet i don't want to even try to move the frame.
i should be able to get things started the weekend after easter.


----------



## TheFishGuy

I'm warning you bell, these people are slave drivers. They were, and are, constantly after me on my tank project. It's going to be exhausting, and soon you'll wonder if you're doing it for you and your fish or if your doing to keep your followers happy!


----------



## bell

it's alright.......we'll see how many times i come off as an a**hole


----------



## 20 20

OK, before posting this:



TheFishGuy said:


> I'm warning you bell, these people are slave drivers. They were, and are, constantly after me on my tank project. It's going to be exhausting, and soon you'll wonder if you're doing it for you and your fish or if your doing to keep your followers happy!


Fishguy posted:



TheFishGuy said:


> pics man, we need pics!!! NOW :lol:


Hmmmm.....


----------



## TheFishGuy

That's right buddy... You guys are so **** pushy with me I have to get it done or you'll all hate me, and I don't want a bunch of cichlid keeping freaks mad at me or you'll come to my house and steal my wife and all my tanks and fish! :lol:

I have to pass the buck to bell, I'm gonna be pushin for this to get done! 

8)


----------



## bell

thanks fishguy 

keep in mind that along side this tank i'm in the middle of rebuilding my 911.....rebuilding the tranny $1000+, engine seals and a few upgrades $600, all new suspension/brakes $900, full interior (but i'm doing that all with raw materials...) probably about $200......
this is my baby....










the river tank is something i've wanted to do since i got my first 2 tiger oscars, i tried to get it started in the old house but it boiled down to not having enough space, it would require 3 projects to do one task (moving stuff around)......which is one of the reasons i moved, the second reason was i used to have a single car garage with a gravel floor, total pain in the butt to do heavy stuff......now i have a 2 car garage with a concrete floor....
so in a sense i'm in my own little heaven right now 

it's been an expensive month, but that's what we do for our hobbies


----------



## TheFishGuy

> it's been an expensive month, but that's what we do for our hobbies Grin


I understand that a thousand percent 8)


----------



## Ngaradude

Hi, any updates? I have always wanted something like this before.


----------



## chefkeith

sell the car, then you'd have more space to build a bigger tank.


----------



## Ngaradude

Wow Wow Wow, that is a Porsche we are talking about, not a porsh, but a Por-sha. You don't just sell a beautiful car like that.


----------



## bell

chefkeith said:


> sell the car, then you'd have more space to build a bigger tank.


you obviously don't understand 

i'm taking a little vacation from work next 4 days, first step is to take care of removing my engine/tranny etc with my car.....

i started cutting some of the framing but my chop saw sook a ****.......will be shopping for a new one this weekend so i can get started, cutting 4x4's can be a pain without the right tools


----------



## TheFishGuy

Tools are cool 8)


----------



## keg75

this post has gone up **** creek - whens it gonna come back down to the lake so we can discuss the MONSTER fish tank?

Porche cool - bit old though. tools cool - but only if you go argh argh argh when firing them up.


----------



## Auntbeast

Since I am always willing to help...

I am a professional nagger. I have been with my husband for 12 years. He has male pattern blindness (can't see anything right in front of him). I am a DIY junkie when it comes to tanks. If you peruse the threads on this forum, my superior nagging skills will be found in abundance.

I would be more than happy to take this burden off the rest of the community. That saves them the trouble, the potential for conflict and allows me to laser beam the nagging.

I also deal poker for a living, so I am well accustomed to ********, so such a mild threat doesn't really even beep my radar.

If you would consider me for the position, I would look forward to serving cichlid-forum to the best of my abilities. I would need Tuesdays and Saturdays off, at least until midnight as I work a 12 hour shift those days.

This river tank is going to be awesome. The fact you have a 2 car garage to play with is nice, even if you have to share it with a non-fish inhabitant. Although I do find the car offensive in that it is very unlikely it would even hold a 55 gallon. It's not very practical for our purposes. May I suggest a utility van? If you can prove that it is effective at getting fish home expeditiously, or is particularly adept at traveling obscene distances for supplies, we might consider allowing you to keep it.

Could we speak to your wife about locking you in said garage, only allowed passes out to home depot and the LFS? I find flat foods are best served to those "restrained for the betterment of humanity" A small slit in the door would suffice to slide in pop-tarts, pizza, waffles, etc. She would be more than welcome to add some soundproofing to the room, to insure her comfort. A permanent webcam would be nice so we could monitor your activies. We would of course, expect all tank parameters to be uploaded live.

(this is all in good fun, except the part of me being a superior nag)


----------



## bell

funny reply 

i have a pickemup truck to handle big things.......no the 911 can't fit a decent sized tank in it.....if it fit it would take away the driving pleasure it provides 

i got alot done this weekend, enigne/tranny is out.....tranny is being rebuilt by a friend....so this clears up some of the "time" issue.

tonite i'm straitening up the basement (a little cluttered from the move) to make room for the layout, this will let me calculate my cut sheet and amount of wood needed.
the frame will be built first in it's final resting place along 3 walls......very very soon


----------



## TheFishGuy

I had a dream about this project.... In my dream it came out awsome!!!


----------



## Stoolpie

bell, for your consideration:
I've been thinking about this project and wanted to throw something out there. Back on page one I said you need to pump around 7,200 GPH to achieve one linear inch per second flow rate given your tank's cross sectional area. Points were made about restrictions like big rocks increasing the water "speed" around those "obstacles" and these points are correct, but if you want to end up with a real flowing system, you may have to add a little more pumping capacity. Suppose you're pumping 5-7,000 GPH through your sump, but the sump is a restriction for the pump, so you're really only getting 3-4,000. Your "river" is now going to be very slow unless you suplement with additional flow. I would suggest an additional ~4-5,000 GPH pump in parallel that just returns water from the back end to the front. It would need a debris filter on the intake, of course, but aside from that it would be straight pipe - no bio, no small stuff - with as few bends as possible. This will add to your costs and complexity, but I'm not sure you can achieve the "river" effect without moving the extra water.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Are you really sure you want THAT much flow? How the heck are the fish supposed to rest??


----------



## orcy

fish aren't meant to be able to rest. they are only here for our enjoyment, and should therefore never be allowed to rest in nice still water EVER.

just kidding, i think the idea was to have bog rocks creating little quiet regions that the fish can retreat to when they get tired of swimming against the current

sounds like a great project, lets hope it turns out as nicely as fishguys did


----------



## TheFishGuy

aaaawwwwwww


----------



## Stoolpie

The "current" in this tank would be ~1.4 inches per second with 10,000 GPH assuming a cross sectional area of 480 square inches (24"x20"). It jumps to 1.8 inches per second if the narrower dimensions are used (18"x20") such as bell mentioned. That's a pretty slow movement, but should "scale" to approximate a slow river based on the relative size. I estimate the jet comming from a good powerhead is moving at least 12 and probably more like 24 inches per second. My fish can easily keep up with that, though usually they don't for more than 10-15 seconds at a time. One of the goals in this tank will probably be to keep the solid waste "swept" along by the current so it doesn't accumulate too badly in dead spots. There will be dead spots wherever large decorations are, and these will provide resting places as well. The flow is not fast enough to create eddies to any great extent, I think.


----------



## PauloSilva

stoolpie-

your calculations are well thought out and i am not a hydrologist by any means. however, can we really assume the tank will be flowing evenly throughout the cross-sections. in short, i believe not. typically in a tank such as this one it would be safe to say that most of the flow will consist in the upper third of the tank. in my head this makes sense and i am not dsiputing any of ur calculations. seeing that his intake is slightly below his return and a moderate sized pump i think he will get the desired effect. now if i could just find my fluid mechanics notes from back in university.


----------



## Stoolpie

Paulo, the tank is far too large for the walls to have any significant effect on flow patterns at these velocities. There's no reason to believe that flow would be "concentrated" in the upper portions of the water - as said before, take water out of one end and put it back in at the other... this results in a flowing system, and even if the return water was directed horizontally at the very top of the tank, it would exert a "drag" on successively lower levels until the whole thing was moving at about the same speed. Too big for wall effects, too small for stratification (given enough flow). Just to be clear, there's no height difference between the "beginning" and the "end". I CAN see how some odd flow patterns could occur at the beginning, where the water return is jetting into the tank.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Man you guys are technical.... Just let em build the darn thing and if there isn't enought flow then he can add a pump


----------



## Stoolpie

... but it's always more fun to give advice when you don't have to do the work! ... or pay the money! :lol:


----------



## bell

that's what i was thinking fishguy......one other thought i had was a seperate dump tank which will pour into the main tank.....imagine a large box with a big horizontal slit in it.
i'm looking to run some sort of high volume/low pressure system....this will help control the turbulence created wher the water enters the tank.

haven't found a saw i like yet......i don't like cheap tools and hate to spend big $$, kinda a catch22.
since i don't need to have the sump under the tank (it'll be hidden behind a wall) i'm probably going to use 2x4's with solid verticle sheets of ply for the stand.......i have the tools to make that work......i've got the layout on paper, i'll post it later tonite with some pics of where it's going.


----------



## TheFishGuy

If you're looking for a good compound miter slide, go on eBay and get a hitatchi. I've got the 8" and the 10" dual compound miter slide. I think I just like typing that... Dual compound mi.........


----------



## Stoolpie

bell - a possible solution to the turbulence at the water return would be to put a diffuser plate in the tank - made of plexiglass and sized to fit fully from front to back and top to bottom, the plate would have numerous holes distributed evenly. This plate would be, say, 4 inches from the "starting" wall. Water would enter the small "chamber" and exit through the holes into the "river" in evenly. I would expect the water level in this chamber to be a little higher than in the rest of the tank, but you could make it slightly short and have a little overflow, if desired. This may not be as simple as it sounds, but a perfect seal around the edges would not be important. The spacing and size of the holes could be calculated and their distribution could be skewed to be more at the top or more at the bottom if you like.


----------



## chefkeith

I was thinking a matten filter at one end of the tank would do the same thing.


----------



## MrRngr94

So any updates yet? Did you get your car finished?


----------



## TheFishGuy

Wow, I forgot about this thread..... :lol:


----------



## bell

car is apart......tranny is out being rebuilt, went over budget for the tranny by a 4-5 hundred which slowed me down some. 
i had alot of plumbing to redo in the new house to accomodate water changes and such.....new utility sink with a "special" drain. i used a 2-sink drain....one side goes to the sink, the other has a fitting which will let me hook the hose directly to it, i highly recommend this as it makes it a breeze. i used a clear hose for the drain feed to ensure water is flowing. a cap keeps it sealed when not in use. i also ran new pipes to where the filter setup will be but have not hooked them up yet as i need to check city code because of the nearby breaker box.....










basically once the syphon is started it'll stay functioning even between changing the hose from the drain to the faucett, i did 75% water changes in my 75, 55, 50 gallon in less than an hour 

i know i said this before but framing for the river tank will start very soon......i got sidetracked from some big projects at work and my 911.


----------



## TheFishGuy

FYI....
As far as code goes for water lines near a panel... For supply lines and drain lines you need to be three feet away. If lines go over the panel then they need to be covered with 5/8" green board. I have the same problem that's why I needed to find a new location for my new panel. These are the codes for geauga county, which by the way has the stiffest codes for plumbing and electrical in ohio.

I agree 1000000% that plumbing your tanks is the way to go... I've got a faucet right over the top of the 800 and it's got it's own drains. Very nice let me tell you!


----------



## bell

good info tfg, the "fake"wall which the filtration will be behind is 5 ft from the end wall where the breaker panel is, i should be covered there then....will be double checking my local laws still.
i also want to put all my fish stuff on it's own circuit, house is wired for an electric stove (30amp?), and i have a gas stove. 
we're going to rewire certain outlets and add some for the new setup to the stove breaker which isn't being used.....


----------



## TheFishGuy

Thirty amp should be what the stove was using, sometimes they use fifty. either way you've got the room by removing that one breaker or using one side of the existing breaker.


----------



## fishjunky

Very interesting project I wish you the best of luck with this project bell I look forward to seeing how things go for you on this one. 
The best advice I can give you on this tank is take your time to build it right. Make 100% certain that YOU like the way it looks and works this is going to be you own little slice of heaven on earth.


----------



## Shwaine

TheFishGuy said:


> Thirty amp should be what the stove was using, sometimes they use fifty.


As I remember, 30amp is an electric oven and 50amp is an electric dryer.


----------



## WantedRawb

ok im sorta new here n wanted to subscribe to this thread but wow no option for that!! oh well ill keep an eye out it looks like an swesome fun project...


----------



## bell

well after about 2 months of planning........
guess what i'm starting on monday 

starting with 6 2x6's 8ft and 16 2x4's 8ft.........


----------



## MrRngr94

Well it's about time!!!  We needed something new to keep track of now that TFG's tank is near completion. :thumb:


----------



## ROMAN1218

:? :? WOW!!!

Seven pages of thread and several months later, we see...............wood for a stand????
At this rate you WILL beat TFG thread for pages. Roll on :thumb:


----------



## yellow

> Seven pages of thread and several months later, we see...............wood for a stand????
> At this rate you WILL beat TFG thread for pages. Roll on


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## bell

ROMAN1218 said:


> :? :? WOW!!!
> 
> Seven pages of thread and several months later, we see...............wood for a stand????


whatever..... :roll:

the fish guy will agree that things like this take lot's of planning, my tank will have around 290 individual pieces not counting filtration or hardware.......

for those whom aren't smart-asses i have half the stand cut, picking up the hardware this weekend so i can start assembly.....


----------



## TheFishGuy

Be prepared for the abuse bell.... They never stop. The only reason why my tank went together so quickly was because of two things... luck and no work. There's no way I'd attempt something of this intense magnitude during summer months... No way... A little advice bell... Pictures keep em happy and shut em up for a while :lol: :lol:

How are the oscars doing? Well I hope.... 8)


----------



## davidhusker

so do you have a general layout or scheme of the tank your building and how big it will be?


----------



## yellow

> ROMAN1218 wrote:
> WOW!!!
> 
> Seven pages of thread and several months later, we see...............wood for a stand????
> 
> whatever.....
> 
> the fish guy will agree that things like this take lot's of planning, my tank will have around 290 individual pieces not counting filtration or hardware.......
> 
> for those whom aren't smart-asses i have half the stand cut, picking up the hardware this weekend so i can start assembly.....


I think its meant as like reverse psychology similar to Fish Mommas post just a bit of harmless slagging.



> Pictures keep em happy and shut em up for a while


Now that i agree with.


----------



## 20 20

TheFishGuy said:


> A little advice bell... Pictures keep em happy and shut em up for a while :lol: :lol:


Hey, don't talk about us in front of our backs...

Er...

Or, something like that. :lol:


----------



## bell

it doesn't get to me.....i can take as well as dish it out....you bust my chops....i'll bust yours 

my oscars are doing good fish guy....they love their freeze dried shrimp, they go through about $30 worth every 2 weeks, i'll never ever ever add up the reciepts 

right now the tank design is as follows.....
picture a U
measured from the back of it the left side of U is 8ft long, the bottom side of the U is 10.5ft long, and the right side of the U is 8ft long, the glass will be on the inner sides of the U.
there will be 3 4ftx2ft windows on the 3 sides, with 2ft windows at 45 degrees in the 2 corners, the rear wall will also be 45 degree to control the current. 
i haven't decided which dirrection the current will flow yet, the sump will still be hidden behind a wall and will be approx 8ft long 1ft wide and 3ft deep, it will be as high as the tank to maximize pump rise flow. the lids will be "converted" freezer doors which i aquired from a local dairy qyeen (removing the triple pane glass for thin plexi), the seals are about 1.5" wide and will seal nicely against a flat surface.
i really want to control the evaporation with this setup.
electrical will be finished up next week, we're adding a second breaker box for all the fish stuff.
i will be getting a good amount accomplished this holiday weekend as i have 3 days off (sun-tues)..........

expect pics next week


----------



## TheFishGuy

Got any extra doors, I'm trying to figure out a top for my monster????? Glad to hear the oscars are doing well... and fat I'm sure :lol:


----------



## Stoolpie

Probably lots more like me out here - perfectly happy to watch and wait and throw in 2 cents when relevant. Good luck!


----------



## ROMAN1218

Apologies to you BELL. I was in no way trying to be a smart .... After I re-read my post, I can see where it sounded that way. Sorry :thumb:

I appreciate your efforts, I DO know about the time it takes for DIY projects, I build all my own stands and canopies, and I admire those that build thier own tanks. That's something I haven't had the time to attempt. Good Luck :!: :!:


----------



## Nil

Bell,

With regards to the rear wall being at a 45 degree angle to control the current, have you considered leaving it at a 90, and filling the two 90 degree back corners with a background or rocks? I think if you fill in those two back corners enough, you'd effectively create a 45 degree, but you'd have added extra space for the fish to live/hide. That and it would probably be easier on the construction to do a 90 degree corner instead of a 45. Just a thought. Thanks,

Nil


----------



## bell

i though about keeping the rear corners at 90deg, but i think it'd take away from the look i'm trying to accomplish, the rear corners will be wider than the strait sections, the goal is to have a consistant curve so once i start on the background it'll be easier to form the curve.....i'm also contiplating curving the rear corners instead of angles by using multiple sheets of thin ply bent around a frame, i'll have a better idea on that very very soon.

fishguy.....the freezer doors i have are too heavy to lift vertically with the glass in them without the help of some struts, the plan was to remove glass and replace with plexi to lighten them up, they are too wide for my application so they are available......if you want them they're yours. i'll pm you some measurments this weekend.....off the top of my head they are 28"x 6ft". i have 3.


----------



## hidenseek

This thread sounds very exciting! It doesn't sound much of a river though. I'm thinking more along the lines of a stream or a spring. Not knocking your idea of a river at all. I'm actually thinking of something similar to your design, but not for a while down the road. I've tried to capture the effects of current in an aquarium ever since I got my first clown loaches. I have the whole UGJ set-up in my 50g and they are always swimming right in front of the jets. I can't wait til I get my new camera so I can take pictures. (Won't be until late July because I'll be out to sea....errrr Navy). I still gotta teach my wife how to keep up the maintenance on the tanks while I'm gone. Thank god I bought a Python!

Stocking ideas?? Maybe you already stated that and I'm just forgetting.

GOOD LUCK!!!


----------



## bell

this is getting built for my oscars, right now i have 4, 3 tigers and one albino.
my 2 large tigers (11"-12") are brothers, the 3rd tiger was a "rescue", and the albino was bought because my gf likes the white ones LOL

the goal is to have "natural" current at about 1"-2" per second.

tfg......the doors i have are 24"x62", if they'll fit i'll get some pics for you this weekend for further inspection. yours if you can use them.


----------



## Badgers034

wow, sounds like its gonna be one sweet tank.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Thanks bell... but it sounds like they're too small.... I need something atleast 40 sum inches wide.... where's the pics man... even if they're pics of the fish we don't care....


----------



## Badgers034

pics please.


----------



## bell

pics tomorrow evening of where i'm at....... 

here's an off topic teaser of what else is going on


----------



## TheFishGuy

I've heard of Wonder Womans invisible jet, but that's too much....


----------



## bell

i tell ya......lowes/hd are both way to pricey for hardware, i found a local store (real little place owned by an old man) which had racks of nuts/bolts for $2.39/lb, ended up spending a little under $40 for what HD would've charged $80-$90 for.....so support you're local small businesses 

it was 93 degrees today, so i decided to do all my cutting inside in the a/c....

all the heavy load bearing pieces will be held together with 3/8" carraige bolts, angle braces etc....
i need to get an electric drill for drilling the holes for the bolts as my cordless will only last so long (get's used at work all day).
i'm really starting to get a good vision, and the transfer from the design in my head to done is taking shape.

being the floor isn't perfecty level (3/4" difference over 8ft) i started by screwing the main 2x6 to the wall and got it level with....you guessed it, a level.
then i cut the vertical supports to the floor....every one is a different legnth, the center angled pieces were needed due to a wierd bump in the concrete, they will be boxed in heavily to ensure the load hits them evenly.










the corner is pretty heavy duty, you can see the 2x6 on the outer perimeter, there is also a 2x4 running the inside perimeter, it is in multiple pieces so the cross braces can load on the same verticle 2x4, there are 2 2x4's every 2ft front/back, they will be bolted together.










here is one of the cross braces, using the 2x4 inside the 2x6 lets me bolt to both the 2x6 and the vertilces which will really add stregnth.










i'm starting on the middle part of the U and the first corner tomorrow.
more to come, i want to have the frame done by next weekend.


----------



## Badgers034

the pics are looking good. i have a question, im sure its in there somewhere, but how many Os are you planning on putting in it??


----------



## davidhusker

gotta love the myter (sp?) saws. Keep it up. Cant wait to see how it _TURNS _out... haha


----------



## TheFishGuy

See... now the peanut gallery is happy


----------



## bell

building it for these 2....both around 11"










i have 2 more which will be added to it also to see if i have a pair between the 4.
the saw belongs to a co-worker, it's a really nice machine 

and the peanut gallery is never truely happy......


----------



## Badgers034

hahaha, peanut gallery. so four Os in all. cant you put more in there. I mean this tank is gonna be huge. I am always looking to put as many cichlids in my tanks as possible, but im sure TFG already knows that from my one thread :lol: .


----------



## bell

long term plan is to have 6-8 oscars.....i want to develop a closely knit pack, this will make feeding time very entertaining and carnivorous


----------



## cyclequip

bell said:


> pics tomorrow evening of where i'm at.......
> 
> here's an off topic teaser of what else is going on


Looks like a G-series 911. Non-standard bonnet catch so I'm assuming modified bodywork. Gonna be hard to get those rear plate stickers if this is a renovation.

I used to rebuild classic 911's for a living. Did some 356 work too (includes Concourse d'Etat winner).


----------



## trigger

Please let this be the last post about the car...


----------



## TheFishGuy

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## bell

cyclequip......it's an '85 carrera, the pins are to secure the fiberglass tail. no major body mods, just a nice narrow body with the 3.2 dme 

trigger.......never 

i've gotta go cut some wood.....


----------



## TheFishGuy

Nice, get that wood cut while dreaming of driving the carrera once again 8)


----------



## Badgers034

i would stick to the fish subject. the mod might lock this thread if it goes too far off subject.


----------



## bell

i have 2 passions......my oscars and my 911.....they go hand in hand.....or is that tail to tail...


----------



## bell

update....framing is about done, still need to cut the angles for the corners and the supports for the middle section.
i ended up not wanting to build dirrectly over the water meter (hidden on the left), so i shortened the tank on that side a bit, however i am going to build a "dump" chamber above that end of the tank for water entry, picture a smaller tank 24x 36 with the water flowing over rocks and into the tank....i'll probably mold it out of concrete to get good dispersion when it goes into the tank, the bottom of it will sit slightly above the water level of the tank.. i'll then make some cabinet doors below to house some electrical and my mack daddy ph anylizer.
once i get the last pieces cut i'll drill and bolt everything together.


----------



## TheFishGuy

8)


----------



## davidhusker

:thumb:


----------



## Slash314

Wow you finally started it.......I can't wait to see it done.


----------



## orcy

starting to look like a decent stand. i'd like to see it a little wider, looks kind of skinny, but i'm sure it will be fantastic when its finished

cheers


----------



## bell

the 2 oppisite ends are 24" wide/4.5ft long and 8ft long, the middle section is 18" wide/10.5ft long.
i made it narrower than i first planned so i can get decent current without having to pump godly ammounts of water, i'm starting off with around 3500gph pump, i'll add a second if needed.
it should land around 500 gallons, which is fine for a pack of O's


----------



## bell

update.......
got a little done today, been busy working on my car as i want to drive it 
the tall stand on the left is for the tank where the water will be pumped into, it will then flow into the main tank, i'll form something creative with concrete where it dumps in. it will be boxed in underneath for some storage and a shelf or two.

the center section braces are done, now i have to get everything bolted/screwed together.

here are a couple pics.


----------



## TheFishGuy

I don't think it's strong enough....... JUST KIDDING 8)


----------



## davidhusker

nice. Any progress is good progress, you never have to worry about your stand blowing over. good luck on the car.


----------



## bell

i went with a 2x6 outside and 2x4 inside the frame with 2x4 verticals on each which are bolted together, the vertical for the 2x6 goes right to the floor, the vertical for the 2x4 sits on top of a 2x4 horozontal which speads the load across the floor along the full perimeter of the tank.
i did this because of the uneven floor and since the tank spans around the room i wanted it to be able to settle with minimal flexing.

i decided to keep the corners square, it'll let me use 5 2ft tall x 3ft wide windows, this will help with the cost of the glass as the pieces are smaller than originally planned.
is 1/2" glass going to be enough? your thoughts appreciated.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Oh yeah, easily. How tall? Two foot? Definately, 1/2 will be fine. Plate glass of course, NOT tempered....


----------



## bell

tank will be 30 inches tall, water level will be 24"-25"....i'm leaving some room above for energetic fish.
my plans for the top of the tank is large pieces of 1/2" plexi with cutouts for access lids, i'll be able to use screws to secure into the side pieces, this will give me my top cross supports, plus it will leave lighting options open.

my test fill will happen before the background and glass cutouts.....this way it'll be square and simple should something leak, once it's leakproof i'll cut out the window openings then build the floor/walls.


----------



## TheFishGuy

I like the plan for your tops.... I'm still sticking with 1/2" glass fronts will be plenty good.


----------



## mikmaze

how mutch did you pitch the base??? looks a bit much, I hope you kept it dang near level, takes a heckuva pump to flow the amount of water you will need to keep the upper end higher than the lower end....... think hard before you commit to tanking it as it sits, only saying this to prevent hindsight 20 20 in the future, also saying this out of what I see in one of the pics..... looks to be sloped. I want the best for you as you are working hard, and trying to help you avert a small disaster., in fact I would build it dead nutz level, the flow from one end to the outlets creating the flow alone.


----------



## bell

the tank is **** near level, it's right around 1/2" difference total which will change when it's filled and settles.
the drop cieling/floor isn't level....that's why it looks funny, but the pumps will dictate the current.
the tank will start off as a normal tank flow-wise, a few months after it's established i will add larger pumps to increase the current to a level the fish are cool with.....the goal is 3" per second in the middle (narrower) section of the tank.

tfg....1/2 it is


----------



## TheFishGuy

Do you plan to lowwer the current at night? I'm just thinking it might be hard for them to sleep that's all. I know oscars are river fish, but the river they once naturally lived in is wide and slow moving.


----------



## davidhusker

that would be a good option to be able to slow down the water. But it depends how fast it actually is when its all said and done. The 'end of the river' may be calm enough, maybe just some rockwork to add to slow it down at the end.


----------



## jontwhale

or a cave / refuge where they can hide from the torrent 
Jon


----------



## mikmaze

cool man col, glad ya got er level, would hate to hear bad things later,,,,, Have you lookied into the Sequence brand pumps? they have awesome Baldor motors and are super efficient, I have on on my Koi pond and it moves 6k gph at about 275 watts consumed, and that is at a head of 6 feet !, I used all 3 inch tiger flex hose for hte install, not one 90 in the wholes system. only troble witht the tiger flex is its almost 4 bux a foot for the 3 inch stuff !


----------



## mikmaze

just a note of a milestone passed, this thread has been viewed 10,000 times, must be peaking a lot of ideas, keep up the good work.


----------



## bell

i haven't decided on a pump yet, i have multiple submersible pumps (300/600/600) which will get used to start things up. 
i don't think anyone realized the extent of the background/floor...... the entire thing is going to be concrete, there will be a few large "caverns" along with some smaller tree root type caverns for the smaller fish, the base for the big stuff will be held up by plexy structures. the floor will have large "pools" which will hold sand/rocks so they can dig......cause the love spitting rocks at the glass to get my attention


----------



## TheFishGuy

I'm going to do some experimenting with a land/water set up with my africans. My kids keep catching frogs and keep buggin me to make a cage for them... I'd like to make some kind of waterfall out of concrete and a small river of sorts....


----------



## davidhusker

your going to put a background on the whole thing? geez. This threads gonna be here a while, **** ohio DIY over achievers... haha. Just kiddin thats gonna be sweet, a long way to go though.


----------



## TheFishGuy

:lol: :lol: Yeah, we care more about our fish and cars than anything


----------



## WantedRawb

bump bump bump


----------



## TheFishGuy

:lol:


----------



## davidhusker

hows that background coming along?


----------



## bell

actually......i've been spending time getting everything bolted/screwed together.
i also got my tranny back and a big box of parts for my car......so i've been in the garage more than the basement over the past couple of days.


----------



## TheFishGuy

PRIORITIES MAN! C'mon :lol: Fish are winter projects anyway


----------



## tothebank

bump


----------



## keg75

If I were you I'd sit down and watch a couple of nature shows (on DVD or TV) which deal with river systems or go down to you local creek and try and see what happens under the water various areas. there may be even some cut awaysa etc on the web. you could have a tank which looks like a river bank even by have a planted wall area behind to simulate vegetation on the bank.

If you have a good appreciation for the dynamics of a stream or river with the back flows etc. you could try and model things you seen. depending on the room you have you maybe able to get bugs to spawn in certains areas of the system, which will give certain fish a food source.

You've probably already thought about what you want to do but I think the books, web and dvd will help you put things into place nicely.

just another 2 cents worth.

keg75


----------



## raceguy333

I just found this thread tonight (and found the TFG thread last night.. whew, lots of reading) and thought I'd throw my two cents in.

I got a large wet/dry filter (in hopes of future expansion) and set it up on my 55 gallon tank to do some experiments and get some experience with it. I was running a mag 12 on the return which (after head) was putting out about 1000 gph. I set the intake at one end and return at the other. It created a nice river flow in the tank just like you are working on here. My tank was only running at about 1/4" per second though and it made a noticable current. I think it would be adventagious to set up a 'test' tank and play with flow rates on a smaller scale before committing to a pump set up for the large tank (like, set up a 20L and small pump to see just how fast you want the water to run). My tank had a sand bottom and there were no problems with blowing the sand around. It was pool filter sand so it was heavier than what I hear about play sand. There was also absolutely NO settling of any debris whatsoever. Every bit of it collected in the last inch of the tank (it went along the bottom... the overflow took water from the top.. taking water from closer to the bottom of the tank could capture a lot of this debris I would imagine... and using drains like TFG with the 90--T set up, it could still not have the problem with syphoning the entire tank dry).

Ok, I realize I just rambled on about everything, but if you have any questions about my set up, I'd be glad to answer them.


----------



## keg75

raceguy333 said:


> I just found this thread tonight (and found the TFG thread last night.. whew, lots of reading) and thought I'd throw my two cents in.
> 
> I got a large wet/dry filter (in hopes of future expansion) and set it up on my 55 gallon tank to do some experiments and get some experience with it. I was running a mag 12 on the return which (after head) was putting out about 1000 gph. I set the intake at one end and return at the other. It created a nice river flow in the tank just like you are working on here. My tank was only running at about 1/4" per second though and it made a noticable current. I think it would be adventagious to set up a 'test' tank and play with flow rates on a smaller scale before committing to a pump set up for the large tank (like, set up a 20L and small pump to see just how fast you want the water to run). My tank had a sand bottom and there were no problems with blowing the sand around. It was pool filter sand so it was heavier than what I hear about play sand. There was also absolutely NO settling of any debris whatsoever. Every bit of it collected in the last inch of the tank (it went along the bottom... the overflow took water from the top.. taking water from closer to the bottom of the tank could capture a lot of this debris I would imagine... and using drains like TFG with the 90--T set up, it could still not have the problem with syphoning the entire tank dry).
> 
> Ok, I realize I just rambled on about everything, but if you have any questions about my set up, I'd be glad to answer them.


Just with this - you could do an assembly which has a small tank with some kind of overflow valve or hose, a hose pipe, a bucket and stop watch.

What you do is adjust the faucet or tap to the right speed of flow that your desire. to work out the flow you want then measure the time it take to fill the bucket. then go and find a pump with the same rating.

Unfortunately I can't readily get an image on this site otherwise I'd give you my 5 bucks worth in regards to a tank design of this kind.


----------



## raceguy333

To me flow in a tank looks a lot different than flow in a pipe.. the pipe/bucket may be good enough for some people, but I guess I just like a bigger picture... especially if you have a spare tank laying around anyway.


----------



## keg75

raceguy333 said:


> To me flow in a tank looks a lot different than flow in a pipe.. the pipe/bucket may be good enough for some people, but I guess I just like a bigger picture... especially if you have a spare tank laying around anyway.


To get an idea of what flows you want to acheive either are an option - not many people have a spare tank lying around, but do have hoses buckets and generally a clock. I would do the hose over the pump cause it saves me buying a pump that your not likely to use for anything else.

When i get a bit more net wealth I'd like to buy a big swanky house somewhere and I'll endeavor to have a stream system of some sort running in and around the house. How cool would it be to have a garden pond trickle down a stream with mini water falls and ponds, and then run through your house in glass channel to create a fish tank, and then pop out the other side (as the stream or outdoor tank). You could stock it with some riverine fish stock that would migrate between the lower and upper pond. THIS WOULD BE KICK ARSE!!!

If you were really clever you could get terrapins or turtles and possibly frogs, you could cover it with a hug aviary net and have a some sort of bird life (not herons or predatory birds) that would integrate with the pond. if you wanted you could have it open to nature and have the local birds (including the rare big breasted bed thrasher) come an integrate with your pond/ riverine system.

sounds like pie in the sky you say - one day i guess it could come true - I just got to get my 3' and 6' out of the way first. 

keg75


----------



## bell

sorry about the lack of updates, been busy in the garage finishing up my car....should be done with it next week 

in the meantime my stand is getting very strong, almost done bolting everything together.
i decided to keep the corners square...this will put me right around 520 gallons less the background size 

there will be no test tank.....flow will be measure with pumps i currently have, then a large pump will be ordered, oscars need massive amounts of turnover of the water because they are very messy, a couple 2000gph will most likely be used, i'll start with one then add if needed.
the flow is simple, if the water input is on one end, and the drain for the sump is on the other then it'll flow, the drain will be a separate chamber at the end of the tank so i can pull from the bottom, this will also allow for a massive prefilter which will be easy to clean.
i've got all my electrical ready, just waiting for my electrician (father) to come by and hook everything up.

oh.....and does anyone want a free 8" tiger oscar? he's a great healthy fish, but will chase/eat anything smaller than him, he is an instigator. he would be best kept in his own tank with a few golf balls and some goldfish to chase 
i can deliver locally, i just want him to go to a good home as he doesn't get along with any of his brothers.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Do you think he'd like an 800?


----------



## imusuallyuseless

It's been about 2 weeks, anything to update???


----------



## Badgers034

Yea, I agree with useless. We need pictures.


----------



## bell

no new pics unless you want pics of a pretty engine from 1985 

i'm not sure how my oscar would fair in your tank tfg, i'd feel bad if he killed everything in your tank  but i know he'd be in good hands so maybe......i think the space will do him good 
he finally got his golf ball out from underneath a big piece of black pvc which my pleco hides in, he was working at it for a week 
my 2 large tigers are antsy, they need more room......
my albino also needs a change.......

hoping to be "illegally" driving around my neighborhood monday (need plates), once it's on the road my priorities shift back to the tank.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Get driving then!!!


----------



## TheFishGuy

Space does wonders with aggression.... I'll gladly take him on, and if it turns into a problem and he starts to kill fish.... I can live with that as long as he doesn't kill my female albino or my TSN cat. But I seriously think he'd do just fine. He'd be the under dog for a few days and my female might put him in his place durring that time. I've seen her do it before, it's like she's in charge of giving the other fish their position in the pecking order :lol:


----------



## keg75

if you stop mucking around with your car you might get your tank finished and more space for your fishies. 

have you seen the new porsche's yet OMG - they're nice even with the classic lights.

hmmm lose the fishtank and get a new car bro... hehe.


----------



## Crackerballer

Cayman FTW!


----------



## Badgers034

Hey bell, its been a little less than a month. Whats goin on??


----------



## bell

not a whole lot......getting together the few hundred bucks i need for plywood.....i need 8 sheets of 3/4" at $40 per sheet.......i'm taking a vacation in a couple weeks so i'm planning on that stage of the tank after i get back.
heading up to niagara falls with the gf, will be hitting marineland to check out their beluga whales and such


----------



## OSUguy98

Just reading over this thread... this is something similar to what I've been daydreaming about over the years... I can't wait to see how this turns out...

One suggestion... I would use something like HEC-RAS to play around with your water flows.... HEC-RAS is free, we use it here at work to model stream channels when we design bridges/etc.... Granted the scale would be much smaller than a river, but you could accurately measure the inside of the channel and virtually "place" an obstruction to see how it effects your water flow.... Once you have it modelled, you could change things like the river bottom and see how it effects your flow....

HEC-RAS isn't perfect, and you may have to fudge things a bit (I don't think it handles vertical walls, so you'd have to tell it that you had an ALMOST vertical wall...), but I think it'd give you a decent idea of whats going on... I could help you out along the way if you'd like...


----------



## bell

good stuff osu......downloading it now, it'll let me "test" some ideas to for the corners and such.


----------



## fishpimpette

13 pages & nothing in the works yet???  Goin' 4 the TFG record 4 longest thread, huh? :lol: :lol:


----------



## Demon_fish

hes got a stand sorta


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## Demon_fish

you should write an article on how to make this and put it in the diy part of the library on cichlid forum


----------



## bell

TEST TANK......

i decided to build a test tank before i start the walls of the river tank, i want to test the method of plywood/fiberglass/epoxy before i cut up $400 in ply.
i have a 60 gallon breeder tank with a broken bottom, the dimensions of the 2 biggest pieces are 15"x48", it looks to be 3/16"-1/4" thick. my thoughts since i have the glass is to build an 8'longx18"tall x24"wide.....is this glass too thin? if i keep the glass at the top of the water level is it thick enough?

i'm also doing this as my oscars need more room NOW, i did some math on the cost of the river tank and am a few months away from it holding water, a "smaller" test tank is the logical solution to solve the territory problem.

thoughts on the thickness of glass that i have for the test tank?


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Technically 1/4" glass would be thick enough for an 18" tall tank, but i'd be very scared to make a 180G out of it. Any idea if the glass is tempered or not???


----------



## bell

don't believe so, the bottom deffinately was not so i doubt the sides are.

i figure a 2" overlap from wood to glass would be more than sufficiant.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

2" should be good. Is the front frame holding the glass gonna be plywood also, or will you be making it out of a different kind of frame??? Also, when can we expect to see this test tank start construction???


----------



## bell

the plan is all plywood, double on the face so the glass will be surounded on the edges with sylicon.
the rear will be reinforced on the back side with longitudinal/verticle braces, the top will be 1/2" plexi which will allow flexibility for the lighting and a good seal for the lids, countersunk screws will be used to secure it to the sides from the top. also figuring bracing in the middle inside the tank.
i should be able to knock out the tank in 2 days, i've built way more complex things than this at work.....
going to order the epoxy next week, once that shows up it's just a trip to lowes and i can start


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Not sure i quite understand your idea for the front frame, but the rest sounds cool. Hope to see pics soon


----------



## MaxUmis

Sounds like you're planning you test tank similar to mine. With the window slightly raised...
I recon that if you don't allow the water level higher up on the glass than what it would have been in the original tank, you should be fine.
So please build it. I would love to see if the raised window idea could work.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Yes, build it so we can see it...


----------



## bell

very soon......the week after laborday is my vacation......9 days off.
figure a couple road trips in the 911.....and a new tank to build, we scratched the niagara falls idea so i'll have time to play


----------



## TheFishGuy

I never want to go on vacation, I just wanna take my vacation and stay home :lol: I can't wait till the next little one arrives.... I'll be taking some time off Wheee whooo!!


----------



## bell

slight change in shape for the test tank.......
a good friend was over today and talked me into flushing it into the wall behind my bar in the fish room. the space i have to work with is 5.5'wide, 3ft tall and 3ft deep, with about 44" underneath for the sump.
so i'm going to check tomorrow on the cost of a 5ftx2ft piece of 1/2 glass, as this test tank will be around 250 gallons.....the tank will be 5'wide,2ft tall, 3ft deep
i also have spare paneling so i can box it in nice with minimal trim......
i'll take some pics tonite of the sump barrel and the "hole in the wall" where it's going.
i'm kinda pumped (which means motivated), i didn't even think of putting it in this prime spot as there is no electric/plumbing.......but being we're still working on that stuff in the other parts of the basement then it'll be no big deal to add.


----------



## bell

here's the spot behind the bar.....it is actually directly below my front porch and there is 2 more feet behind where the doors hide shelving.
i'll end up getting a new bar-top.....the cheap looking formica has to go.
the river tank sits to the right of the bar.


















and the blue 55 gallon barrel which will be the sump


----------



## TheFishGuy

Speaking from experience.... do you think that one barrel will have enough volume to give your pump to work with? Just a thought.....


----------



## bell

if it doesn't i can always add a second one and link it like yours are


----------



## TheFishGuy

True, very true...


----------



## mikmaze

I like those 55's, I used one as a final pass bio chamber, 2.5 cu ft of kaldnes K1 media, in an active bed setup, 5 cu ft minute of air pumped in the bottom to keep the material moving and airated...... works like a charm on a 5k gallon koi pond.


----------



## Fishthoughts

Bell: Give me a call (216)526-5880 -- I'm up in brunswick and have a river tank setup in our hatchery, although it is only a 40L. I have a different type of filtration setup on there that I made, you might want to check it out. The tank is designed for plecos that like faster currents. I dont have any pictures of it, otherwise I'd post it here.


----------



## Demon_fish

it looks like its coming along good, iv been watching this thread.


----------



## bell

Fishthoughts.....i'll get in touch with you over the next few weeks, i didn't realize you were local.....i enjoyed your thread on your hatchery and i'd like to check it out 

i was thinking about my test tank and found it kinda humorous that it's 200+ gallons.....but the scale will let me play with background/floor construction, and will also let my figure out the plexi lid and such.

i also want to tie in a main drain from the test tank to the river tank drain....but nowhere to hide the pipes, so i'll probably add a shelf along the wall to conceal it. cosmetics are last though


----------



## Fishthoughts

200 gallons... brings back memories! We built a custom 230 gallon plywood project tank a while ago in our garage before we moved the hatchery out there... all went great until it was time to get it in the house... the paintable epoxy makes for great lighter fluid


----------



## Guest

As soon as you finish, you're going to want it longer/wider/higher...

I'd go with what you have space for...and then some :roll:

Adam


----------



## bell

just a small update.......haven't gotten **** done 
unless you call some detailed drawing progress.......i don't have a scanner here, i'll see if i my gf can scan it at her work.
i ixnayed building the large test tank for now, i now have enough info in my head that i'm confident and don't need to build a test tank.
the tank will be built in 3 large sections, basically think 3 targe tanks with holes cut where meet each other.....the seal at these points will be bolted together like a flange with a rubber gasket in between, this will let me dissasemble it if/when i move.
i'm close to start cutting, just trying to get other priorities ready before winter hits.

external dimmensions for the intake side is 5ftx24"x24"
center section is 7ftx24"x24"
last section is 8ftx24"x24" with a dump/prefilter chamber at the end.
3 viewing windows will have 2" of surrounding support (glass hight 24")
intake side...3ftx20" view
middle....6ftx20" view
end.....6ftx20" view

more to come 

getting close


----------



## keg75

tip: if you have a digicamera take a photo of your plans and then post on the web... rather than find a scanner or copier with scan functions


----------



## TheFishGuy

I've done that on occasion too keg75...


----------



## Guest

Any updates?


----------



## keg75

I bought a tv.... and thats as relevant as the porsche is in this frolically read post....... hehe

yeah any updates on the Massive tank thats not so big cause of the said car or wife or garage space.

Did you do any plans or sketches that you can show us the progress?

keg75


----------



## bell

my 911 is under the knife again....this time when it comes out of the garage it'll be orange 
but that's not relevent to this.... wahhwah wah 

here's a photoshoped pic of dimensions, best way to give a visual right now.
i'll be cutting wood after the new year....gotta get through x-mas first.

the 3 sections of the tank will bolt together at the ends of the center section, i'll be using stainless steel hardware and a thick rubber gasket in between the tanks.

tank will be around 650 gallons not counting sump consumtion.

the entire floor/wall in the tank will be fiberglass incorperating plenty of hiding spots...... plus it'll let me control the flow of water with minimal weight....which is the goal here.

the tank is as big as i can go right now, if i owned the house it'd be another story......think 10.5ftx5ft x 4 ft......but this tank needs to be able to be removed.

this is an old pic with finalized dimensions


----------



## keg75

My last post should have said "prolifically read" instead of "frolically read" sorry :wink:

Whats the floor made of? is it going to be able to support the weight?

Rental house? have you sought approval for the river tank? are fish classified as pets?

I have a mate who was going to put a spa in a rental house, he bought it, he had it delivered after the rental inspection and was going to install it (ie plumb it in). CRAZY... he ended up selling it cause the guy he lived with had herpes and he didn't want his mate to use it cause of said herpes. paid 12K+ sold for 9.3K I think.

Goodness knows what he was going to do at the next 3monthly rent inspection...

Anyway just something to consider about the wieght and if it's actually okay to setup the tank. The landlord (or other) may not like the idea of a large tank - which a samll potential to leak or catastrophically fail but I guess he'd have landlord insurance if that happened.

The tank pic visualisation - cool. one thing (you didn't do to well when you had to colur between the lines did you... those lines are wonky... you can doa straight line command in most drawing packages (even paint) so may look a little neater. would be cool if ou could do a helix style with water falls so that you could have tanks below the others... how the fish move through the whole system would be interesting.

Orange porsche - What are you on....


----------



## imusuallyuseless

> I have a mate who was going to put a spa in a rental house, he bought it, he had it delivered after the rental inspection and was going to install it (ie plumb it in). CRAZY... he ended up selling it cause the guy he lived with had herpes and he didn't want his mate to use it cause of said herpes. paid 12K+ sold for 9.3K I think.


What a lovely story :lol:


----------



## TheFishGuy

:lol:


----------



## bell

landlord is cool, no worries there.....
floor will hold it, thick reinforced concrete......so no worries there.....
i draw better by hand than on a computer.....no worries there.....
don't have herpes.......no worries there......


check this link for the orange and wheel finish i'm going with.....not my car but you get the idea.....
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/ ... 242609.jpg


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## keg75

cheez whiz - is that the colour... ?

I saw a 32 ford coupe dressed in that colour very smart. but i prefer a deep purple myself...

[smacking own forehead] Think fish tanks man.... not cars...

that river tank of yours I sent you a email with the pic. no name s onforum please... 

keg75


----------



## bell

i'm a car guy.....for years i screwed around with turbo dodge's (think 300hp dodge omni), then raced hondas (road courses not drag racing), for the past 5 years i've been into p-cars.
in between it all i take care of my girl and my oscars.
i got the pic.....just too busy to make my lines strait 
the shallow part of the above pic (yellow) is where water will enter the tank, the end of the red box on right is where the intake for the sump system will be.

and yes that is the color. it's refered to "jagermiester orange" ....which was mixed for an IMSA series jagermiester sponsored RSR....here's another example
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/ ... 309286.jpg


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## KeSs

awesome idea, good luck with everything....and nice car! I use to race a modded CRX Si at Beaverun Motorsports Complex outside Pittsburgh


----------



## keg75

bell said:


> i got the pic.....just too busy to make my lines strait


use my pic... add your text and voila... specy picture... :thumb:

or not.. 

cheer keg75

p.s.. whats that link where the guy showed a whole buch on sectiosn and plans as it went from botto of tank to top.... i couldn't find the other day... it was very well laid out... ideas and skethes.


----------



## TheFishGuy

American Mussel (it's a fish site, had to keep it fishy) 

Traded this in for four kids and an 800 gallon tank....


----------



## cody6766

you lost out on that deal...see if they'll trade back :lol:

I cant' wait to see this river tank. I've been checking for updates from time to time....come on! :x 

anyway, good luck with the build, I'll be checking in more after xmas. I may have my own project to keep up with then. I'm thinking a 12gal nano-reef may be in my near future.


----------



## keg75

american mussel - i like it... 

traded in for 4 kids a 800gal tank..... (and a wife ??? ).... even funnier... :lol:

vasectomy anyone...


----------



## TheFishGuy

Feb.....


----------



## BEAGLEBASIL

cool tank idea bell. I would like to do that in my basement and stock it with some channel cat and bass, so if i ever got bored i could just go fishing from my couch. HAHA. If you are ever into Cincinnati you should check out Bass Pro Shops. They have a similar tank as yours only bigger i'm sure you could get some great ideas from. My brother used to work there and they didn't mind if you went in the back and seen how everything worked. Just a thought. Good luck


----------



## keg75

peacock bass ?


----------



## keg75

hows the porsche?


----------



## kam

hows the tank?


----------



## bell

well the river tank isn't happening.......not yet anyway. i learned alot in this whole process and came to the conclusion that the space i have to work with will not be enough territory for my O's.
i'm moving to north carolina next year and didn't want to build it only to have to destroy it......when i get settled after the move i will start the "real" river tank, i want it much larger than is possible here. i would've got my original concept done and wished i could've gone bigger, so the concept is on hold.
but don't worry, it'll get built...just not at this time.....

i did however build a 350 gallon ply tank which will be filled soon, i built it as large as i could where i can get it out of the house when i move (6ft widex4ft deepx2ft tall).....here is the thread on that...
i am currently building the filtration system...
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=135029

p.s......the 911 is great


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## TheFishGuy

Are you going to come up and visit one more time before you move? Maybe drink some beer? :lol:


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## bell

oh yea...i'm here for 1 more year.....the plan is to be gone by june of 08'


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## TheFishGuy

I've got the little fridge plugged in down stairs


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## keg75

Well it's now september 08 - has anything come to fruition on this project or is it still a dream.

keg75


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## bell

well.....to put it simply.....3 posts above was pretty accurate, i moved to florida (not nc) a few months ago.......
the river tank idea is not dead.....the initial space i had in the old house wouldn't have made me happy, meaning in a couple years i will building a real river tank.....i want it 3ft wide and at least 40ft-50ft long while wrapping around 3 walls, think the original design except 10 times bigger 
i really wish i would've gotten some of my big projects done, but life happens and i moved, my oscars are currently spawning at Monster Fish Rescue and being cared for by tfg (there's a thread in the oscar forum).
i sold all my tanks but still have all my filtration/sumps etc, the kid who bought my tanks got a killer deal as he picked them up the night i was loading my moving truck.

i'm getting a new house in about 6 months and should have the space to start a new diy tank.....will it be the dream river tank? who knows, over the next month i'll be in the market for a 180-240 to get me by until i have more space.....

the original river tank was an ambitious project, and things got switched around alot with what i was doing in my basement tankwise and life in general.......so at the moment it'll have to stay in the design stages.
but after looking back through this thread it has showed inspirational to some, including myself......so for that the idea can grow, and when the time comes will become reality.....


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