# columnaris? getting desperate



## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

I have a 55gal with 8 peacocks/haps. A couple of months ago my masoni developed a white blotch on his side that started to raise up and look like a bump. I treated him in a hospital tank with doxycycline and it went away. Then a few weeks later He had a white blotch a little higher up on his side and a white bump on his nose. I treated the entire tank with furan-2 and kanamycin, and have also been adding Dr. Tim's first defense with every water change. It's been a couple of months and the white bump on his nose seems to be slowly getting worse. Is this columnaris? What should I do?


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## twankyfive2 (Sep 19, 2012)

I am for sure no expert but after a couple of columnaris scares I was told the disease is very fast moving and very aggressive. So your months long timeline suggests maybe it's something else? Also it doesn't look like the photos of columnaris I've seen - which are usually more puffy with that cotton like look.

That being said, I am not equipped to suggest an alternative.

Everyone is going to want your tank info - parameters, water changes etc.


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

twankyfive2 said:


> I am for sure no expert but after a couple of columnaris scares I was told the disease is very fast moving and very aggressive. So your months long timeline suggests maybe it's something else? Also it doesn't look like the photos of columnaris I've seen - which are usually more puffy with that cotton like look.
> 
> That being said, I am not equipped to suggest an alternative.
> 
> Everyone is going to want your tank info - parameters, water changes etc.


Ok thanks.

Tank is a 55gal with 8 peacocks/haps. Ammonia:0 Nitrite:0 Nitrate:10, hardness 11. Water changes are once a week, a little over 50% and it has a Rena filstar XP3 filter.


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## audierou (Jul 25, 2012)

I am anxiously waiting for replies to come in on your subject. I have noticed one of my haps with the exact same thing as what you have in the picture. This was about 3 days ago. Now 3 other fish are starting to get the same mark. its like one tiny white bump on each fish. Have have been treating with pimafix and have since done 2 nice water changes. Have you noticed it to be contageous?


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

I haven't noticed it on any other fish yet luckily. The progression to this point has been very slow though. He initially started showing signs of something being wrong around thanksgiving when he wouldn't eat and just stayed in his cave. then he started eating but had the white bump on his side which is when I treated with doxy the first time around.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm not sure what it is but I don't think it's columnaris. It doesn't look right and isn't progressing as quickly as columnaris would. Sorry I can't be of more help, I'd be guessing if I recommended another course of treatment.


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

this is what it originally looked like


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

so the bump is about twice the size now and he has a bad case of popeye to go with it. im treating with maracyn and maracyn 2 in a seperate tank. my only concern is the ammonia levels in the tank since maracyn 2 kills the beneficial bacteria. Will he be ok going the 5 days without a water change? should I just add some prime every day?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I'd rather perform water changes to keep ammonia down, then dose the meds respective to the amount of water being added.


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

Ok i will do that then. Thanks


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## islandlife7309 (Feb 24, 2013)

I have the same thing on one of my yellowtails, i brought fungus guard and Mardel quick cure. So far nothing has changed, but it hasn't gotten worse. I know it isn't columnaris because as someone else said it works quickly and would have killed the fish by now. None of my other fish have it either. Another yellowtail had it and sadly passed away. None of the fins are clamped and its spots not blotches. I'll let you know if any of those medicines work. If nothing progresses I will be taking the fish to an expert at the store and see what he recommends. The fungal treatment will also help with the pop-eye. Hope everything works out for you :?


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## islandlife7309 (Feb 24, 2013)

okay so i've been treating my tank with Mardel Quick Cure for 3 days and i must tell you that the bumps and white fuzz is slowly going away. I advise go get some and start treatment.


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

Ok good to hear. The maracyn + maracyn 2 hasn't seemed to help at all


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## islandlife7309 (Feb 24, 2013)

I hope the Mardel will work for you. I don't see why not. I'm not the best fish keeper to say haha but I'm also really stubborn and will keep experimenting until something works.


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

Would there be any benefit to adding a UV sterilizer at this point if I have one?


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## islandlife7309 (Feb 24, 2013)

i dont see what it can hurt honestly so if it makes you feel better to put it in there i say go for it! hope your fish is doing better =)


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

It's not unforunately which is why I was thinking of adding the UV. I'm going to give it a few more days and if there is no change then I'm going to switch meds I think.


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## islandlife7309 (Feb 24, 2013)

That kind of blows, I'm sorry. You can always ask your LFS if they think it would make a difference or not. I'm still new to this so I'm just here for support and give advice for what worked for me.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

It isn't Columnaris, as stated by others.

I agree with GTZ...Daily water changes would be my mode of attack. If it hasn't killed the fish over this period of time, I would also have my water quality double checked with different kits.


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

I've been doing 75% water changes every other day. His popeye looks pretty bad now, it's about 3 times the size of his other eye. water paramater are 0,0,10 according to 2 different kits. I decided to put the UV on my main tank instead of the hospital tank since some of the antibiotics are light sensitive and just to make me feel better about none of the other fish getting sick.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I'd try some epsom salt in an effort to reduce the fluid build up behind the eye. 1tbsp per 5g, premixed with tank water and added slowly over 5-6 hours.
Could you post a recent pic to see what the rest of the fish looks like? Is the pop eye due to the affected area between the eye and mouth?


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

Ok just added 1tbsp of epson salt. I'll add 1 additional tablespoon an hour for the next 4 hours. I'll try to get a picture up soon but he mostly hides in a cave. I believe the popeye is due to the original infection between his eye and mouth that just spread.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

When you treated with Kanamycin and Nitrofurazone, it was waterborne and not oral correct?


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

here are some pictures


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

also, what should i do tomorrow when i do a water change in regards to the salt? should i add 4 tablespoons into the new water im going to add to the tank? or maybe add it back in gradually again? Should I only add 3 tablespoons if i only changed 75% of the water?


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

GTZ said:


> When you treated with Kanamycin and Nitrofurazone, it was waterborne and not oral correct?


Yes, that is correct


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Add the appropriate amount of epsom salt to the replacement water, no need to add it gradually, you're just trying to maintain the salt levels in the tank.
If you still have Kanamycin on hand, I'd try an oral treatment, mixed with food. Unfortunately, I only have dosages based on body weight, so if you want to try it, you're going to have to find out the fish's weight. If you have a small scale for weighing food ingredients, that would work.
Feed 50 mg of kanamycin sulfate/kg (= 23 mg/lb) of body weight/day for 5 days. Note that there is a certain degree of risk here as kanamcyin can cause damage to kidneys if overused. There are no details on how long to treat, so I'm making something of a guess at 5 days. If the fish is going to improve with this treatment, it should be apparent within 5 days.
To mix the medication with food, mix the powder with a small amount of warm water and add the appropriate amount of pellets. You can let them soak up the water/med and then feed, or you can wait for the pellets to soak, then dry, then feed.


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

i literally have about 2 scoops of kanamycin and it's back ordered right now online. As soon as I get it I'll try that. For now would it make sense to maybe not medicate the tank to prevent and side effects from too much exposure to the antibiotics? Then start feeding the kanaplex once I get it?


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## booklive101 (Sep 18, 2012)

You should treat the kanaplex with the API general cure. I beleive the kanaplex treats gram + bacteria and general cure treats gram - bacteria and internal parasites. It could have internal parasites since you really can't tell. But the kanaplex and general cure is a really good combo as it treats a broad spectrum of bacteria and parasites. I'm assuming you do see any external parasites on your cichlid? Be sure you follow the EXACT direction, too much and it'll kill and too little will not be enough to kill the bacteria. I would treat for a extra 48 hours just to be safe but remember to do the required water change. If that doesn't work, then there is a really good comprehensive list of all the types of mediations for various fish diseases.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

mattfisher said:


> i literally have about 2 scoops of kanamycin and it's back ordered right now online. As soon as I get it I'll try that. For now would it make sense to maybe not medicate the tank to prevent and side effects from too much exposure to the antibiotics? Then start feeding the kanaplex once I get it?


I checked the bottle and was surprised to see a food dosage. Seachem recommends 1 scoop (180mg) per tablespoon of food paste. For one fish, I'm thinking maybe half a teaspoon of pellets per feeding? That would equal ~30mg of kanamycin.
I think the easiest way to make up the medicated food would be to mix one scoop of kanamycin with warm water, then add a tablespoon of pellets, let them soak up all of the water, then let them dry. If you have 2 scoops left, that would be enough for 2 tablespoons of pellets. You know your fish better than I do; how long would that last?



booklive101 said:


> I beleive the kanaplex treats gram + bacteria and general cure treats gram - bacteria and internal parasites.


Kanamycin is mainly gram negative with some gram positive properties. API General Cure, which contains metronidazole and praziquantel, is mainly an anti-parasitic and anti-protozoan and isn't antibacterial beyond some gram positive anaerobic properties due to the metronidazole. The majority of fish pathogens are gram negative as well as aerobic.


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

Well I've only been feeding him 1 pellet a day because I was worried about ammonia since the antibiotics kill the nitrifying bacteria. I guess I should start feeding him more now though since he's been in there a while and it doesn't look like he'll be out of the hospital tank anytime soon. 2 tablespoons of pellets could easily last a week


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Maracyn is the only med you've used that would be harsh on nitrifying bacteria. I assume it's out of the water by now. Still, daily water parameter testing is a good idea while medicating. :thumb:


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

He didn't eat at all yesterday and hasn't eaten anything yet today. It also looks like it's starting to turn white under his other eye. Any last ditch desperation effort I can try if his other eye looks worse tomorrow?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Any Kanaplex left? I'd try a bath if you have any left. Double the recommended dosage in whatever size container, I've used a small Tupperware in the past, ex. 360mg (2 level scoops) per 20 liters or 5 gallons of tank water. Leave him in the container for 30 minutes then return him to the tank, but don't pour the bath water into the tank. If you don't have Kanaplex left, substitute nitrofurazone if you have any, or doxycycline, both at double the recommended dosage, same 30 minute bath.
More info here: http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/20 ... baths.html


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

All out of Kanaplex. I have tetracycline and Furan-2. Would one be better than the other to use?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Personally, I would stop with the meds. It has been a month now, and your problems are worsening. A lot of times we over treat a tank and throw the entire tank balance off.

I haven't read back through the entire thread, but I would isolate the fish (if possible) and focus on pristine water quality for awhile and see what happens.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Unfortunately, I think the fish is well beyond the point of clean water having any effect. There's definitely an infection of some sort.
Use the Furan-2 for the bath, and make sure the hospital tank water is fresh, with epsom before returning the fish.


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## mattfisher (Dec 8, 2012)

cichlidaholic said:


> Personally, I would stop with the meds. It has been a month now, and your problems are worsening. A lot of times we over treat a tank and throw the entire tank balance off.
> 
> I haven't read back through the entire thread, but I would isolate the fish (if possible) and focus on pristine water quality for awhile and see what happens.


He's been in a hospital tank for 90% of the meds he's received


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