# Long Peacock Story - Unhealthy Now Not Eating



## mtber (Apr 8, 2005)

Ok, long story to give all of the background.

Have had a Regal Peacock for over a year. Was kept in a 54 gal corner w/Demosani and yellow labs. I now know this wasnâ€™t a good idea and over time the Peacockâ€™s health went downhill. Just wasnâ€™t as vibrant, etc. The water parameters were pH 8.2, KH 11. GH 5 with Nitrates always <= 20.

Decided to get another tank and to build a 125 gal all male peacock tank and a separate 125 gal for the Demosani and other mbuna.

Got a 125 and set it up. Temporarily moved all of the 54 gal inhabitants to it (1 regal, ~ 20 demosani of mixed sizes, 2 yellow labs, and one petricloa. Set parameters approximately the same as 54 gal.

Then made the two additional mistakes.

1st was purchasing three pictus cats at local pet superstore. All seemed well with them, but they are really annoying with their frenetic behavior.

Then went to LFS and they were having a sale and we got a German Red Male, Chilcoelo, a venustus, and three small compressicep.

Had been feeding Tetra cichlid flakes and NLS cichlid pellets- on advice from LFS, switched to Ocean Nutrition Formula Two Flakes.

Two and four days later the compressicep had died.

Six days after adding them to the tank several smaller demosani were acting lethargic and having what looked like swim bladder problems, started dosing 12 scoops Seachem Metronitadazole. Later that night, started seeing ich on several fiash, especially the original regal peacock, started treating w/half dose Maricide, 50 mL (Day 1).

Day 2 â€" on advice from LFS and reading various net articles, increased tank temp to 86F, added 50 tablespoons aquarium salt (over two day period). â€" lots of surface agitation.

Continued met and maricide through day 7. Set-up a quaritine/hospital tank and removed all demosani and pictus cats (plan to take pictus back to LFS when healthy and have another 125 waiting for the mbuna when they are â€œcleanâ€


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Well, I'm wondering if it's really ich.

Are the ich spots salt like in appearance, or are they larger and cottony?

Any fin deterioration?

My main concern is that it could be Columnaris...If so, raising the temp can be deadly.

I take it you added the new fish without quarantine?

What symptoms did the compressicep show before he died?

Have you checked the ammonia and nitrite levels on the new tank? Did you use established filter media to jump start it?


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## mtber (Apr 8, 2005)

Cichlidaholic,

Responses to your questions are below.



> Are the ich spots salt like in appearance, or are they larger and cottony?


Iâ€™m pretty sure that the original problem was ich, yes they were salt like and not cottony. Saw it on several of the fish and with the treatment regimen it has gone away on all fish but the regal. At this point I donâ€™t know exactly what Iâ€™m seeing on the regal.



> Any fin deterioration?


Yes, the regal has been looking ratty for awhile, thatâ€™s why I finally decided that I had to do separate tanks so he wouldnâ€™t be stressed out by the demosani.

He is looking a lot worse since moving them all to the new 125. I had hoped that he would start to improve once I got the demosani out of there. But he still isnâ€™t eating, has some white spots on him, and just generally looks bad. I donâ€™t see that the spots are cottony though.



> My main concern is that it could be Columnaris...If so, raising the temp can be deadly.


I let the temp go down to 78 last night.



> I take it you added the new fish without quarantine?


Yes, have learned my lesson here the hard way, now have two ten gallon and one 20 gallon set-up for hospital/quarantine. I have all of the demosani in the 20 now. They look â€œcleanâ€


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Honestly, I'm not sure whether antibiotics are the answer, or if you need something antiparasitic.

Any chance of a pic of the peacock?

Not eating can indicate a thousand different things. Flashing can indicated external parasites, while the loss of balance can indicate internal problems.

The first thing I would do is make sure the ich was completely gone. How long since you've seen any white spots?

You may have had more than one thing going on the whole time.


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## mtber (Apr 8, 2005)

I've posted some pics of the Regal and my German red at the following link. The german red is looking beat up on its sides (has for ) and now has one white spot on its fin.

I very well may have more than one thing going on, I know that there was high stress for teh peacock with an extended stay with the demonsani. I know that I've made mistakes and gotten these fish to a bad spot, I just need to figure out how to salvage the situation.

What looks like ich on the peacock hasn't gone away (maybe "moved" around some).

http://www.adoramapix.com/sickpeacocks/

I just did about a 40% water change, the tank is refilling now - I run the replacement water through a house water type carbon filter and it sprays in until a float valve shuts it off.

I'm due for Day 11 of ich treatment (every other day).

Should I go ahead and treat the whole tank?

Should I move the regal to a hospital tank, or do I need to keep treating the whole tank and it would put extra stress on him to move? I've held off on doing anything.

I'm going to test the water chemistry now and will post later. My log on what has been happening is below.

Thanks,

John

4-Oct-08	Added from zzz: 3 x Compressicep, 1 x H. Vennustus, 1 x Chiloel Peacock, 1 x German Red Peacock, 1 x Petricola
6-Oct-08	Removed 1 Compressicep, was dying at surface, afternoon, remaning 2 hanging at surface, not looking good
8-Oct-08	Found 2nd Compressicep dead on bottom, can't find 3rd & last, probably dead behind rocks
10-Oct-08	several fish lethargic, floating on side near top of tank - treated w/12 me13 measures Seachem Metronitadazole ~ 3pm
10-Oct-08	closer examination shows ICH spots on many fish, treated tank w/ 50 mL (1/2 dose) Maricide, increased water temp to 80F to accelerate ICH cycle (DAY 1)
11-Oct-08	on advice from ccc @ zzzz, increased tank temp to 86, took a number of hours and was very slow in coming down (DAY 2)
12-Oct-08	dosed w/ metronitadozle in am and Maricide in pm, allowed temp to lower to 80 (DAY 3)
13-Oct-08	more research - raising temp to 86 and holding, adding aquarium salt to reach level of 2.5 tablespoon/5 gal - 50 tbls total, adding 10 tbls @ 6pm, added another 10 tbls @10pm (DAY 4)
14-Oct-08	dosed w/ metronitadozle in pm and Maricide in am, temp @85, trying to raise to 86, added another 10 tbls salt @ 7am, 10 tbls salt @ 6pm & 10 tbls salt @ 10pm (now total of 50 tbls) (DAY 5)

regal peacock still has lots ICH around head, one pictus cat covered, other two ok, several small demosani have swim bladder problems
15-Oct-08	~39 gal water change (DAY 6)
16-Oct-08	added 50 mL Maricide in am, temp holding at 86, Regal peacock still not eating - some ich, but looks less, German Red has white spot on head and side - not ich - looks like injury/stress, one pictus still ick covered (DAY 7)
17-Oct-08	observed Johonni and others picking on Regal fiercely
18-Oct-08	removed all rock, etc. Captured all mbuna and 3 pictus and moved to hospital, drained ~1/3 water
signs of Ich seem to be gone
added 10 tbls salt, 50 mL Mericide (Day 9)


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## mtber (Apr 8, 2005)

Before the ~40% water change using API test kits

pH 8
Ammonia 0 mg/mL
Nitrite 0 mg/mL
Nitrate 5 mg/mL
KH 9
GH 7


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Okay, that does look like ich on the dorsal fin. I believe the areas you are seeing on the sides of the body are scrapes, not uncommon in a sick fish, nor unusual for a peacock kept with mbuna.

At this point, I'm wondering whether the Maracide is working or not, as I'm sure you are. (I've never used that for ich.) I prefer the meds with formalin and malachite green in them - Quick Cure is my ich med of choice. It stains the silicone somewhat, but it solves the problem quickly.

Can you get any of the Quick Cure? If so, I would put some fresh carbon in the filtration and run it for a few hours, remove the carbon (you did this, right? It will remove your meds from the water if it's less than 2 weeks running) and start treating with the Quick Cure.

Because of the possibility of more than one thing going on, I would make it a priority to do daily water changes before adding the Quick Cure every day, this helps to speed up the elimination of the ich at various life cycle stages.

Once you go 3-4 days without seeing any ich, we'll re-assess the situation and decide where to go from there.


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## mtber (Apr 8, 2005)

Thanks cichlidaholic

I picked up some Rid Ich +, it has both formalin and malachite green, so should be similar to Quick Cure. I'll follow it's dosing directions (3 days daily with at least 25% water change, then continue three days past last visible ich, I'm doisng 50 mL assuming that there is probably actually around 100 gal of water betwen the sand, rock, driftwood dislacement and the fact that I haven't got my top off system optimized yet, so it isn't filling teh top 3 inches) and see how things look at the end of the week.

I* haven't been running any carbon in my filter. I added the first dose of Rid Ich + last night. Should I run carbon this afternoon before doing the water change aand adding the 2nd dose?*

Looking back through my log of changes, I realize that it has only been a couple of days sice I removed the major source of aggression, so I'm sure that it will take some more time for the fish to recover.

Thanks,

John


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Well, if you already started the new med, no sense in replacing the carbon now. You don't want to remove what's already in there. I just always use fresh carbon for a few hours anytime I change meds, just in case there is some undesirable reaction between the two medications!

Good luck, John.

As I said, we may need to try something else once the ich is gone, but we aren't going to be able to make a determination on what else is going on until it is. :thumb:


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## mtber (Apr 8, 2005)

All of the ich spots have dropped off the regal as of this afternoon, he isn't eating yet, but all of the other fish are.

I'll continue the 50 mL Rid Ich + per day after ~40% water changes throughh Sat, hopefully won't see any more ich.

John


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You might pick up some Jungle Parasite Clear to begin on Saturday, enough for 3 treatments, spaced 48 hours apart, with a 25% water change prior to the 2nd and 3rd treatment.

It would be really great if you had a hospital tank to do this in.

I would then do a large water change (50%) on the main tank, making sure you vacuum the substrate really well, and add epsom salt to the main tank preventatively at 1 cup per 100G. (It serves as a mild laxative and will help prevent others from contracting bloat, if this is what you're dealing with.) Basically, we're just going to have to guess if he isn't eating by Saturday...


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## mtber (Apr 8, 2005)

Update

I moved the regal to a 10 gal hospital tank Sat.

Sat/Sun - Treated with two â€œscoopsâ€


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The JPC has praziquantel in it in addition to the met, so it's worth a try.

1.5 tablespoons of epsom salt is sufficient for a 10G tank. (Normal dosage is 1 cup or 16 TBS per 100G of water)

I would maintain the epsom salt in the main tank for a couple of weeks. You may already have infected fish in there, and they might just not be showing symptoms yet. You can treat the main tank further with medicated antiparasitic food if you like, it's not going to hurt anything.


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## mtber (Apr 8, 2005)

I've done two doses of the Jungle parasite clear and have 1.5 tsp Epsom salts in the tank. No improvement. Will do a water chnage and teh third dose tomorrow (Sun).

My wife commented on how if you put a flake in ans swish the water he comes over and circles around like he wants to eat. But he doesn't actually take/mouth any food. I've seem him do a few what look like the fish equivalent of dry heaves.

This has been going on for a couple of weeks now. He was highly harrasses previously.

What could be the source if he wants to eat but can't? Treatment options seem pretty limited if he won't ingest anything.

John


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

That's the problem once they get to the point that they stop eating. I've never had great success treating the water column when bloat is involved. My main focus is usually preventative - meaning feeding the fish that aren't showing symptoms medicated food. Getting them to ingest the meds is always better than treating the water column, IMO. You can be fighting a losing battle once the fish stops eating, but I always try, because occasionally, it does work if the bloat isn't too advanced.

Just keep in mind for the future that highly stressed fish are almost guaranteed to lead to health problems in a tank at some point. IMO, that's one of the main reasons we have to be so careful in stocking a tank.


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## mtber (Apr 8, 2005)

Mr. Peacock took a steep turn for the worse Sat so we euthanized him. Thanks for your help in trying to save him.

John


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