# Fontosas not eating...probably bloat...help!



## emsquared19 (Jun 3, 2010)

Ok...so I have 16 juvenile burundi frontosas, 3 albino bristlenoe plecos, 2 large common plecos, 4 yellow labs, and two clown loaches...everything is 3 inches or smaller except for the two plecos...no fish have been added recently....I've had the fronts for close to a year now...they're in a 90 gallon and some decided they were going to stop eating about 3 weeks ago. I noticed one was bloated, so I bought some clout and treated him in a hospital tank...most were eating, then another had really rapid breathing, so I treated them both for quite awhile...bloat when down...breathing was close to normal...so I put them back in...well the one that was bloated got bloated again...so I put him in the hopsital again...well yesterday I woke up and found two of my fronts dead and skinned (picked on after death most likely)...So I'm thinking the water is contaminated and needs to be treated as a whole...so what I've done (read this from a very experienced bredder)...I put all the CICHLIDS the hospital tank...raised the temp to 86, put overdoses of clout in...put extra air strips...and turned off all lights, and of course no carbon in the filter...then I changed ALL the water in my 90 gallon and refilled it all with brand new water (didn't clean rocks, to leave bio) I have put the plecos back in and am waiting to see normal activity from the fronts again...so any pointers, tips from VERY experienced front keepers...I really really don't want to lose anymore!! Thanks ahead of time!

Also, the water test before the big change showed everything perfect...so, help...haha

All the fronts are small now, so they're good in the 90 as far as size of tank goes....usually weekly water changes of small amounts (10-20%) Don't clean all of rocks...usually 1/2 of them per change.

And I'm getting a 265 gallon 7 foot tank in a week...I am well aware of how big they grow and that my 90 is only a grow out tank.


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## joesfish (Mar 29, 2004)

There is a certain way most experience Front keepers will do their tanks and you have two things that stick out real quick. Of course you know a 90 gal tank is two small and even though it's a grow out tank 16 Fronts just by themselves for one year is to long in a small tank. In a year your alpha male should be about 5 inches and then about 1 inch of growth every year for the next 4-5 years. If your fish are 3 inch or smaller in a year then your either not doing water changes or tanks to small, or both.

The other thing that sticks out is that you have Frontosa in with Yellow labs and they have been together for a while. The yellow labs are most likely at breeding age and the Fronts have another 2-3 years. The Frontosa are mild fish and mostly just aggressive toward their own species. Yellow labs have are beginning to spawn and kill off any Fronts. Frontosa rarely get Bloat and if so it's caused by the food your feeding or really poor water quality. Most likely your Fronts are getting Float which is really common with Frontosa especially Mpimbwe. This Float could also be caused be the food your feeding but seeing how your tank has poor tank mates and is small the odds are the float is from stress.

Any gasping can be water quality, stress, or a gill parasite. what do you think the gasping is from?

I would separate the yellow labs from the Fronts ASAP.

Also when your Fronts are in the bigger tank your most likely going to see a rapid growth spurt.


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## emsquared19 (Jun 3, 2010)

Well, the yellow labs were just added recently and are all fairly small...largest might be an inch...also, it's probably been more specifically 8-10 months I've had the fronts...I was thinking float...but none at all are at the surface...I've seen float in fronts, and the ones I saw were swimming on their side at the surface of the water...in my case the bloated ones are being very suclusive and at the bottom...usually corner...it must be water quality...at least that's what I'm thinking...one very small one also got a white cloudy eye...could be an injury, but again didn't see it happen, so unsure what it is...you're right about the 90 gallon, it is too small, but seeing how they're small I figured it would be good for awhile...do you think my treatment method is good, I'm thinking the 265 will get rid of alot of problems...so you think I should get rid or the labs when they get bigger (spawning size)? Thanks!


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## emsquared19 (Jun 3, 2010)

Also, as far as the food goes...I feed HBH African Cichlid Attack...I've heard it's good, but maybe too high protein content? I feed omega one super veggie every now and then...also fed some mealworms a couple times...baby shrimp every once in a while


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## joesfish (Mar 29, 2004)

I really don't care for the HBH African Cichlid Attack for Frontosa and only feed SA Cichlid that. I do like omega one super veggie once in a while and Kens Troph lovers for smaller fish. I like Kens soft and moist Krill for my main Frontosa pellet food.

If I thought my water had something in the tank I would take all my rocks out and move them to another tank. If you don't have a tank go pickup a couple of the rubber totes at one of your local stores, Rubbermaid makes some nice ones. I would add half the water from the top of the tank where it's the cleanest and add new water with Prime conditioner. Place some of the fish in the Tote and divide them up between a few totes. You shouldn't need any rocks in any of the totes and only put the Fronts in the totes. Put air to the totes or HOB filters and the lids on the best you can so nothing get in or out and then I would hit the totes with clout. Clout will turn your tank silicon blue so if they are in the totes you don't have to worry. They can last a long time like this and it will give you time to empty the 90 gal and cycle the tank with new water and filters, plus get the big tank going.

One thing that could cause Bloat in fronts is a high meat protein diet and over feeding. How many times a day do you feed them and how long does it take for them to eat the food in the tank?


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## emsquared19 (Jun 3, 2010)

I feed 2-3 times a day and usually put enough so that the food is gone within 30 seconds...before I was letting food sit...but after reading a really good article I starting feeding way less...I have the 90 cycling right now...I put my plecos in there cuz they can handle it and I didn't want them bothering the fronts...I have the fronts in a small tank right now (10 gallon)...I know it's tiny, but I want the clout to be most effective rather than be dilluted by putting it in anything larger...I had them in their with just the bubbles going for awhile, then I turned on the filter without carbon...their breathing seems to be going back to normal...I might try and put them back soon...


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## emsquared19 (Jun 3, 2010)

What would you recommend as a really good staple food rather than the HBH?


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## joesfish (Mar 29, 2004)

If you check out the sponsor link on this website there is Kensfish. I like his soft and moist pellets for my Fronts. Also I think over feeding can always be a big problem and Frontosa don't eat like other fish. As fry I feed 3 times a day but at 3 inches I feed only once a day and at 4 plus inch i feed every other day. Three times a day is to much and will do more harm then good. Many people want the fish to grow quick and over feed but the trick to quick growing fish is doing the water changes.


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## emsquared19 (Jun 3, 2010)

KENS PREMIUM SOFT&MOIST WITH KRILL 1.5 MM PELLET:

is that the stuff??


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## emsquared19 (Jun 3, 2010)

There's alot of moisture in that...any problems with keeping it over time?


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## emsquared19 (Jun 3, 2010)

Also, with you feeding once a day or less, how long do you want it to take for the fish to eat all the food?

And as far as water changes go, what do you recommend?

Sorry for so many questions...I just want to make sure I'm fixing any problems I might currently have...Thank you!


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## joesfish (Mar 29, 2004)

The questions are fine and not a problem.

Yes the soft and moist is the right stuff, I think he has a 3.0mm pellet too. I buy the bigger pellets which are fine for 3in fish. They come in half pound bags and I only open up one at a time. You can freeze the other bags to keep freshness. Once I open a bag I store the food in a sealed food container to keep air tight. When feed I only give enough food so that its all gone in about 30sec to a minute. If you have catfish and other fish in the tank then you might have to be more towards the minute just so everyone gets some food.

Here is how I do my water changes.

Fry tanks up to 3 inches 10-20% 3 days a week.
Any Frontosa over 3 inch I do 1 water change at 20% per a week.
If I'm trying to get a spawn I might change things around a little with the water changes and feedings but in general this is how I do things.


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## kriskm (Dec 1, 2009)

Just a note about a staple food for frontosas, many keepers (including myself) have had good luck with New Life Spectrum foods (their cichlid, large fish, and Thera-A formulas are all excellent). These pellets sink well and don't dissolve too much in the water, creating minimal mess. They provide great nutrition, including plenty of iodine rich food, which Lake Tanganyikan fish need, as the lake is relatively high in iodine.


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## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

how is your water parameter? can you do a reading for ph/kh/gh/anmonia/NO2, and NO3?


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## revrend (Feb 11, 2010)

i rely on joefish's opinion everytime ... i got my colony from him and evertime i have had an issue he has never steered me wrong ... my mpimbwes had float and they were all on the bottom not on their sides at the top but they were at a 45 degree angel head down tail up... they wouldn't eat ... i too feed Ken's moist and soft with krill 3mm pellets


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## Ron R. (Oct 21, 2003)

I feed all my fronts 1x daily and even skip a day or 2 during the week. The only fronts I don't skip feedings on are my fry.

To avoid bloat and water quality issues I use the buffer recipe found here in the library........epsom salt, baking soda and Instant Ocean sea salt.

Clout is pretty strong stuff. I use in lower doses when I need it and only use as a last resort.

Water changes are the best when you have problems. I change 50% weekly in my 180g tank.


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## wheatbackdigger (May 11, 2008)

emsquared19 said:


> I feed 2-3 times a day and usually put enough so that the food is gone within 30 seconds...before I was letting food sit...but after reading a really good article I starting feeding way less...I have the 90 cycling right now...I put my plecos in there cuz they can handle it and I didn't want them bothering the fronts...I have the fronts in a small tank right now (10 gallon)...I know it's tiny, but I want the clout to be most effective rather than be dilluted by putting it in anything larger...I had them in their with just the bubbles going for awhile, then I turned on the filter without carbon...their breathing seems to be going back to normal...I might try and put them back soon...


Oh my, 16 fronts in a 10g tank, please post a picture of this. Take up another hobby, something that doesn't involve live creatures.


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