# Problem this AM..



## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

Im sure this is in here somehwere - I simply don't have the time to search - I do apologize. Maybe someone can help..
I have a 75g tank - all parameters are perfect. Temp is 80. I just went ahead and did a 10G water change this AM after finding one of my female mbunas with a cloudy eye, swimming near the top and her side looks like white scales peeling off sorta? Shes pretty low energy acting.

Thoughts? I dont have a hospital tank.. I read a little about salt treatment.. would that be benificial?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

How long has this tank been set up?

What is your normal tank maintenance routine?

What kind of test kits are you using? (strips or liquid reagent)

Have they been open longer than 6 months?

What are the water parameters?

A 10g water change is pretty minimal for that size tank.

Cloudy eye or popeye usually stem from one of three things...Either poor water quality, injury (even netting a fish can cause cloudy eye), or bacterial infection.

What is the stock list on the tank? (Females can be quite stressed from aggression, weakening their immune system, and injuries do occur.)

Are the scales raised?

Does her balance seem affected?

Sorry for all the questions, but all the answers are important in trying to help you get to the bottom of what is going on.

If it hasn't turned into an infection, daily water changes (more than 10G - perhaps 30 -40% of the volume) and Melafix might be all you need. If she's showing other signs of illness, this may require antibiotics, which will be much easier to do in a smaller hospital tank.


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## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

How long has this tank been set up? The tank has been up for over a year now.. 13 months

What is your normal tank maintenance routine? I do a 10G water change once a week, with a sand vaccuum and good scraping off of all the sides and rocks. (I do have a UV sterilizer in my sump running 24/7)
What kind of test kits are you using? (strips or liquid reagent) I use test strips

Have they been open longer than 6 months? Probably right at 6 months old

What are the water parameters? Well, i just did another check and my nitrates are high - about 80, Nitrites are 0, gh is 300, chlorine is 0, alk 180, ph 8.4 
A 10g water change is pretty minimal for that size tank.

Cloudy eye or popeye usually stem from one of three things...Either poor water quality, injury (even netting a fish can cause cloudy eye), or bacterial infection.

What is the stock list on the tank? (Females can be quite stressed from aggression, weakening their immune system, and injuries do occur.) I have 10 mbuns and 8 peacocks - all quick young still. I havent seperated out who Im keeping and whose goign to my sisters yet.
Are the scales raised? Ill try to snap a picture, but no, not raised, just looks like a little white on the side with the cloudy eye.
Does her balance seem affected? Not at all. Shes just sluggish and lethargic


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I would step up the water changes and see if you notice any improvement. You could also add Melafix to the tank. Your nitrates can quickly double on you, and I don't like to see them above 40 in my tanks, even right before a water change. I think if you do larger water changes weekly, this will resolve. For now, I would do daily water changes.

Are you noticing any cottony or fuzzy areas on her side?

By the way, test strips are very unreliable, and if they've been open that long, that makes them even more unreliable. I would pick up liquid reagent kits for checking the ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.


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## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

Ok, I went ahead and did a 50% WC just about an hour ago.

I'm mostly concerned that whatever it is doesnt spread.. I hate to sound like this is gonna sound, but she was one of the 10 or so that was going to my sisters tank once she got it cycled.

LOL So im not going to go to great lenghts to save her, but I dont want a break-out. Everyone else seems healthy and happy. They are doing thier normal fishy things and having babies like mad - I got to witness the egg fertilizing "dance" the other day, very cool.

Anyhoo, I got a few pics.. the white streaks in the water are bubbles, I had to turn flash down to slow


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## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

added pics of the sick one


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## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

Update:
She died.
All parameters are still good, did a 50% WC this eve..got the nitrates down to 40 with that wc.
Stood and watched them all for about a half hour - noticed them rubbing on the bottom, scratching on the sand.
Ideas?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Charrisse said:


> Update:
> She died.
> All parameters are still good, did a 50% WC this eve..got the nitrates down to 40 with that wc.
> Stood and watched them all for about a half hour - noticed them rubbing on the bottom, scratching on the sand.
> Ideas?


Fish will flash more after a water change, especially a larger than normal water change so that may be all that you are seeing with them rubbing and scratching in the sand, but the patchy white appearance of the fish that died may indicate a bacterial infection. I would do as Kim suggested: daily partial water changes for the next week or so, both to get the nitrates down and also to hopefully prevent the spread of anything. Make sure you're using a good quality declorinator. Watch your other fish closely for any symptoms such as cloudy eye, lack of appetite, a tendency to hang at the top or bottom, etc.

Robin


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I agree with Robin.

I think you may be dealing with a bacterial infection, possibly Columnaris, judging by the pic.

But, I would want to get that water in perfect condition before adding any meds. It may require multiple water changes to do so.

I also wouldn't move any fish out of the tank and to your sister's tanks until you're sure nothing else is going to happen.

Should any of the other fish show signs of illness, you will need to initiate immediate treatment...Maracyn and Maracyn II would be my first choice.

I would also lower the temp (slowly) to 76, just in case this is Columnaris. That will help slow down the spread of the disease somewhat.


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## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

Thank you for your replys.
I will do another 50% WC today. I changed and cleaned the filters yesterday also.
Would you recomend adding salt?

Today they are all eating fine and acting fine.. so far..


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You can add salt if you normally add salt with your water changes, but without any signs of problems with the remaining fish, I'm not sure it's necessary if you're thinking of adding it medicinally.


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## css virginia (Jan 29, 2007)

From the look of the fish in pic. I believed she would most likely not survive-looked bad. Not surprised she didn't make it. Sorry.


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## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

Just wanted to toss in a quick update  And THANK YOU ALL for your replys and help. It is SO appriciated!

I have treated with Melafix and Pimafix together.. the fish were VERY MIFFED at first due to the cloudy water and little foam it created, but within two treatments, the cloudy eye I saw starting on one other guy completly cleared up and the velvet (Im going to assume thats what it was, as the description fit) starting on another guy cleared up. We are on day 4 of treatment now, and they have all adapted to the cloudy water and foam (boy were they MAD at first!) and everyone is showing NO signs of sickness.

We only had the first initial single fish loss, I didntthink she would make it either (as someone else posted  ) But I think we're in the clear now.

Has anyone else used these products? I had never used them before and thought to give them a go, and am very pleased with the results.

I did add aquarium salt as recommended for treatment also.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Just a few thoughts:

You mentioned you cleaned your filter. Have you gotten liquid tests for ammonia? Just making sure that you didn't overclean your filter, affect your bio filter and create a new problem . . .

I have used Melafix before for minor fin damage, etc., and found it quite useful. My fish were never mad at me about it, though . . .

I like to do frequent small water changes to reduce the likelihood that I'm significantly changing the water pH, mineral content, etc., (which is what the flashing after a water change is due to). So I tend to do 10 gallon changes 3 or 4 times a week for my 60 gallon. I like giving them fresh water frequently, I like that the changes aren't such a big deal and I like vac'g up the poop regularly. So just a thought for your tank maintenance once you've got things settled down a bit . . .


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## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

Welp, I have a wet dry, with bio balls, so when I cleaned the filter - I replaced the nasty pads, and left the bio balls alone. That, along with the 40% (ish) WC took the slightly high nitrates down to 0 immidiatly.

I think I need to be a bit more diligant with my WC. After the replys and feedback *** gotten, I think Im not changing out enough. I had only been doing about 10g once a week.

I might try your suggestion of 10G a few times a week.

Thank ya


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Charrisse, I'm a bit worried about your filtration...

I've used Melafix and Pimafix together, and NEVER noticed cloudy or sudsy water.

How many gph are you pushing through?

I definitely believe you should step up the tank maintenance...No need to do several a week, just increase the size of your weekly water change to 30-40%...

And lets see about that filtration, too!


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## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

Welp, on the bottles it says you may notice sudsy/ cloudy water during treatment. My water was crytal clear prior to. 
Im using this filter https://www.petsr4u.com/proddetail.asp?prod=5078126
I forget the exact pump - but its for a 125G. I bought bigger for more filtetration and for a "gulp" tank upgrade eventually.

Thoughts?

Its still only cloudy/ sudsy immidiatly following treatment and then for about 3 or 4 hours, then it settles down.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Your filtration should be fine...

I suppose maybe it could be the differences in our water that determine suds or no suds!

Step up that tank maintenance for awhile and keep an eye on things. I think you're on the right track. :thumb:


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## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

> Step up that tank maintenance for awhile and keep an eye on things. I think you're on the right track.


Thank you. I will start with bigger WC. I think I was pretty off there, judging by how everyone else does thiers.

Thanks guys!


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