# Can someone educate me on blue rams?



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

I just bought one yesterday and he seems pretty stressed not sure if that's the way he is . Hes always at the bottom moves slowly and stops . He does this all around the tank. And it looks like hes eating something from the gravel. When I get close he gets really scared. Is he going to get used to this and relax a bit?

Or Should I go out and buy another one to keep him company? The guy where I got him told me not to buy plants because he said that they would get uprooted even plastic ones... Any suggestions? Right I only have a piece of driftwood.

Here is a couple of pics


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

What size tank is this?

I can't imagine what the salesperson was thinking...Maybe they weren't... :lol:

Plants are fine, in fact, they are necessary in making these guys feel secure.

Was the tank cycled before you added the fish?

What are the water parameters on the tank?

He does appear stressed, but you have to keep in mind that you just got him, and the tank is bare and there may be a change in water conditions.

I'm not convinced that this is a "blue ram", either. Any chance of a better pic?


----------



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

He sure is stressed, probably on account of the ridiculous advice you were given about plants; they'll get uprooted? By what? :lol:

You need to provide a lot more cover for him. He may also be stressed on account of incorrect water parameters - ie pH KH GH and Temperature.

I presume this is a 10 gallon tank?

Are you aware of the requirements of these Cichlids?

Have you kept Cichlids before, how about any other fish?

Can you give me an idea of what your water parameters are - pH KH GH and Temp, both in the tank and from the tap (when reading from the tap take measurements both immediately after filling the bucket, and then again after several hours.)

Briefly, these Cichlids enjoy a well planted tank with a few pieces of driftwood throughout, you can do purely a wood scape but I always found them more colourful and certainly a lot calmer in a planted environment. It doesn't have to take much either - here is my Blue Ram tank (10 gallon) in which I kept my spawning pair, the only work required were the frequent water changes and gravel cleaning, I pruned plants when they reached the surface and that was about it:
http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/ ... GBRFRY.flv

Here's my female, you can see how easily the sexes are distinguished by her shorter, rounder body, shorter pelvic finnage, a more rounded caudal and dorsal fin, the pink belly and iridescent blue on/around the spot (males can possess this too):









I'd say you had a male there but hard to tell 100% from the pics (and how stressed). I'd advise getting a couple of females to go in the tank once you have planted it up - he will quickly choose his favourite at which point you can remove the third wheel and will have a cool little tank. These fish are pretty rubbish at raising their own fry if left to it, so you can enjoy breeding/spawning and early fry-dom without the issue of raising them - most will eat the fry after a few days.

They prefer warmer water than most other species will tolerate - ie 30C - 86f. They are not a hard water fish, they will prove hard to keep alive if your water is too hard and alkaline for them - they really are a true soft water species, I kept my pair in pH 4.5, KH 1, GH 2-4, Temp of 30C. Generally I would advise a pH of 5.5-6 as very reasonable (and safer for new hobbyists) although they will tolerate pH of up to 7.8, potentially higher, but expect to run into problems as they stress far more easily in such conditions. In a KH much more than 3-4 the eggs will have difficulty developing and again IME they are more prone to stress/illness/death. Not saying it can't be done, but it does make it harder on them, and you.

So if you can answer my initial questions we can get back to you with more detail.


----------



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

Not a 10 gal this is a 29 gal tank. Ill test my water and get back to you all. Tank is cycled with 4 zebra danios. I tested my water before i bought the ram ill do it again in a bit.

here is another pic 









I got a cheap camera sorry for the quality.


----------



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Cool, hard to tell with no plants etc as a guide, no offence :lol:.


----------



## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

projectcam95 said:


> Hes always at the bottom moves slowly and stops . He does this all around the tank. And it looks like hes eating something from the gravel.


Sounds like scavenging, which is a good sign.
Normally a stressed fish will remain listless...typically exhibiting rapid gill-movement, and oftentimes up at the water's surface.

The rest of his skittishness is related to what Kim and Blair mentioned about the lack of cover (e.g. plants/driftwood, etc.) in the tank. Once those items are in there, your fish will feel safer in knowing he/she has a place to seek shelter whenever you approach the tank---which in turn will make him less likely to dart off on you when you're trying to check in on the little guy.

BV


----------



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

Test Results

Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Total Hardness (GH) ppm 300 <-- that's hard in the scale i have 
Total Chlorine 0
Total Aklaniity (Kh) 80
ph 7.2


----------



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

To divide PPM into degrees of hardness (more commonly used) you simply multiply the result by 0.056, just for future reference.

Ie

KH 80 x 0.056 = 4.48
GH 300 x 0.056 = 16.8

So your KH is higher than I would prefer but it is not beyond reason, the GH although particularly high shouldn't be too much of an issue. I wouldn't expect eggs to hatch in a KH that high though. You will need to keep an eye on them in these conditions. The pH is fine. You'll find that once well planted and established the KH and pH will drop down a little anyway.

Your nitrAte reading of 0 concerns me, either you have a faulty test (what are you using?) or the tank is not actually cycled yet.

What of your Ammonia readings? These fish will not tolerate an uncycled aquarium at all well (ie death).

Normally I would advise keeping them in water half as hard as yours, but it can be done, you just need to take extra steps to ensure they are well kept - in harder more alkaline conditions stress gets to them a lot more readily and results in poor health/no vibrancy and worst case an early death. I'm not trying to freak you out or paint a bad picture :lol:, I just have to make you aware that IMO this is as far as I would go.


----------



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

I'm using a Aquarium Multi-Test Kit. Comes with 25 strips. *** tested the water 3 times and it still marks as 0 nitrate.

2 questions from this.. How can I get the nitrate up ? and How can I make the water softer or Should I leave it how it is?

Another thing I think the Zebra Danios are picking on the Ram.. Should i get a friend for him or should i fix the nitrate problem first?

Another pic after a couple of plastic plants i got.


----------



## Mustang Boy (May 2, 2008)

how long did you have the danios in there before you added the ram

and a liquid test kit is alot more accurate than strips are


----------



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

about 3 and half weeks. Ram seems to be doing better.. He liked the purple plant and hides there.. He doesn't go up to eat but he eats from the gravel.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You need more plants...Lots more plants... 

The tank has lots of potential, and Blair is the king of rams, so you're in good hands!


----------



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

Nice Ill go out and buy some more tonight.. Those are plastic should i go with live? I dont want to deal with co2 though or plants that need alot of care


----------



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

A couple of live plants i got.


----------



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

more plants more plants! hehehe, Rams tend to need a tank that is overcrowded with plants to become more comfortable IME, load that tank with plants!


----------



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Getting there, did you watch my video?



> It doesn't have to take much either - here is my Blue Ram tank (10 gallon) in which I kept my spawning pair, the only work required were the frequent water changes and gravel cleaning, I pruned plants when they reached the surface and that was about it:
> http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/ ... GBRFRY.flv












That really is as overgrown as it looks, like I said all I did was prune plants when they hit the surface, kept the gravel clean and performed (at that time several WC's) a 50% WC each week. The substrate is a specialist one but that was the only added element to keep plants - your substrate looks pretty shallow anyway, so I'd be inclined to go out and get some more - you want it a good couple of inches thick for plants. Because you don't want to go the whole hog a specialist substrate would probably be too much, instead I'd mix a little of this into your regular gravel:
http://www.redseafish.com/Prod228.asp

That little 10 had one compact 11w bulb over it, (the one that came with it).

What lighting does this tank have (wattage, bulb type, bulb spectrum)?

My favourite plant for ultimate success with little effort, that always finds a home in my Ram tanks - _Hygrophila polysperma_. You could fill most of the tank up with that stuff, the Blue Rams love it and spend a lot of time chasing the dithers through the leaves and ambushing each other, very entertaining. It requires so little to grow and once it's established it's like a weed, you can do what I do which is pinch the top out lower down (once established) and this causes internodal growth to shoot out - so one stem becomes 2<4<8 etc allowing you to very rapidly fill up the tank.

If you find growth really slow it can be worth adding a tiny amount of nutrients, although I'd probably only add a touch every other day - I don't add nutrients to any of my tanks at the moment, here's my current 55 after a prune and then a week later:


















_Excuse the reflections I've not done a proper recent shot._

Here's some useful info, I've written this so many times you'll have to excuse the bits not relevant to yourself/outdated (ie how I don't use ferts anymore).



> Here's my favourite plant list for an easy planted tank:
> 
> Most plants I split into the smaller groups, or separate individuals and plant them this way, gives
> them better space and chance at rooting well.
> ...


Don't be shy with those plants, check out the list and research before buying - a lot of places tend to sell plants that aren't truly aquatic, the list I gave above is fine, some may be better left but on the whole....

You've not mentioned if you've kept Cichlids, or even fish, before.... Don't be shy we just need to know so that we can make sure you are properly advised.

I wouldn't try and buffer water yet in your shoes, lets get you set up and sorted before you even think about that one.

Also I'm still waiting for that Ammonia reading .


----------



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

blairo1 I don't have a Ammonia test kit . Ill go out and buy one today. Ill also buy more live plants. *** never owned cichlids before . *** owned a 10 gal before this one. But just with guppies.. I'm also not sure what kind of lighting I got. Its the light that came with the hood.

btw thanks everyone for helping me out .

My ram is still not coming up to eat. He only eats from the bottom. Should i get some frozen shrimp or something?


----------



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

blairo1 i got the Ammonia test result..

2.0 mg

Not good right? I was going to do a water change. and Bought 5 gallons of purified water at walmart. I tested that water and got 0 mg. Should i do the water change now?

Ill be waiting on your response before I do anything. I don't want the ram to die btw i couldn't watch your video.. For some reason it blinks black and white a lot and the vid doesn't play.

Thanks


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Yes, start doing water changes immediately. This is toxic to your fish, and can do long term damage to their internal organs. I would do several small water changes of 25-30% over the course of the day, in an effort to bring the ammonia to zero.

You're going to have to really stay on top of things now, but it doesn't sound like the tank was cycled before you added the fish???

What dechlorinator are you using? I would suggest Prime - it will detox the ammonia.


----------



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> Yes, start doing water changes immediately. This is toxic to your fish, and can do long term damage to their internal organs. I would do several small water changes of 25-30% over the course of the day, in an effort to bring the ammonia to zero.
> 
> You're going to have to really stay on top of things now, but it doesn't sound like the tank was cycled before you added the fish???
> 
> What dechlorinator are you using? I would suggest Prime - it will detox the ammonia.


I talked to blair on pms . And I bought prime like he and you suggested. But I also bought Bio Spira.

I just placed in the Bio Spira in the tank . Should I wait for it to take effect or should i detox the ammonia with the prime? It says on the Bio Spira that some ammonia detox can kill the bio spira bacteria.

I was thinking that the problem of the Ammonia is coming from the tank not being cycled long enough. So i thought if i just put in the Prime to detox the ammonia . It can spike up again because im not addressing the problem. So there for i looked into Bio-Spira which alot of people recommend to help establish my bio filter.

is this correct or did i make a bad move?

I did a 20% water change before this.


----------



## Philg (May 14, 2007)

Lots of plants are hardy and can do with little or no CO2- swords, java fern, anubia.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

projectcam95 said:


> I talked to blair on pms .


It's early and I'm still on my first cup of coffee. For just a minute I thought Blair had stepped outside the fish world and started doing hormonal counselling. :lol:

You are correct, the tank is trying to cycle, and you're going to have to keep a close eye on the water parameters.

I'm not much on the "bacteria in a bottle" but I've heard nothing but good things about Biospira, so in your situation, it's worth a try.


----------



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

:lol: Well it would be interesting talking to me on pms.

I say interesting what with me being a man and all. I suppose you could have pi**ed man syndrome, but that's something I'd probably be more inclined to associate with my friday night antics.

:wink:

The biospira should do the trick but it isn't a guarantee - keep us updated on your parameters.


----------



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

The ram died yesterday at night.. Bio-Spira has been there for 3 days and ammonia is still high.

Im going to give it a couple of days to work.

Tests 
Nitrate 20
Nitrite .5
GH 16.8
KH 16.8
Cholrine 0
PH 7.2
Ammonia 2.0

If the bio spira doesnt work . *** been thinking I want to move the aquarium from the kitchen/living room to my room. I dont want too much traffic around the tank. So if it doesnt work i might start all over and search for filter media some where. To get it instant cycled.


----------



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Sorry to hear it, chalk it up as experience, you'll know next time.

Nitrates and NitrItes are up, this is good news as it shows us that this tank is getting there, once the ammonia starts to drop expect the nitrItes to still be up a little and once they go IME they drop rapidly, just takes a little longer initially. Patience is key here.

If you want to move the tank I certainly wouldn't start from scratch! Not after all this time and expense of getting it cycled, finding media will not be necessary, just give it a couple of weeks with those danios in there and it'll be nicely cycled, it will probably be ready long before then if the biospira worked correctly, but a couple of weeks to let everything settle out and make sure it's mature won't hurt.

Once the tank is cycled and you've seen the ammonia and nitrites drop to zero, the nitrates continue to climb and you are at normal water change schedule, then you can move it to another area and set it up again without losing the bacteria you've been waiting for. In short you'd drain half the water into a tub/couple of tubs, chuck the danios and filter in one of the tubs and keep the filter running (not essential to keep the filter running here, if you aren't able to let it run on a tub then you've got time to move it and set it up anyway - just don't disturb the filter media, don't rinse it, just leave it be, you've got plenty of time but I like to keep things within a 60 minute window.) Move the tank, set it up with old gravel (if you keep this damp in the tank it will also still contain a lot of bacteria) and add some more if required (remember you want to plant it up some more), re-scape it, fill it up with the 50% old water and 50% new dechlorinated tap water matched to temp, add fish and filter, switch it all back on. Easily done on a tank this size within 30 mins or so, plenty of time to keep those filter colonies happy.

Once it's all sorted, we can help you on your way with stocking this tank with appropriate and interesting Cichlids, as well as some cool tankmates.


----------



## projectcam95 (Sep 12, 2008)

Nice ... Thanks Blairo1. Ill let you all know when ammonia starts to drop


----------

