# Juvenile growth rate



## SpongeMom (Feb 8, 2009)

Last week I got talked into a pair of very small cyphotilapia sp. 'North' (Burundi) frontosa. They are reportedly 9 months old and about 1.5 inches, I'd guess. I found a guy about 90 minutes from me who imports wild Africans and made the drive to see what I could come home with. He is rather overstocked (400 tanks) and sold me these little guys for a good price. I have no illusion about their adult size and feeding habits. It isn't a question of "if" but "when" they need to move out of my 55 mixed tank.

My question is how long I'll likely be able to keep them before they start eating their tankmates in the middle of the night. If they're 9 months old and 1.5 inches, (which is about the size of everything else in there), what will I probably be looking at in terms of size in a year? I assume they aren't a danger to anything else until it fits into their mouth. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

their growth might be impeded until you give them bigger water. time will tell. you should expect them to be 4" in another year, if all is well.


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## tirzo13 (May 26, 2004)

at 9 months, my frontosa are over 4 inches.
In your mixed tank, your frontosa will get out competed for food, and continue to be stunted.
In that tank they will not get big enough to eat your other fish.

So at the stunted rate your seller had them at, and now being outcompeted with other tankmates, i'd bet they don't even reach 4 inches in another year.

Frontosa at 21 months should be well over 5 inches, with lead males at least 7 at that time.


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## SpongeMom (Feb 8, 2009)

Hmm...I guess I'm a little confused. I don't suppose it much matters how big they'll be in time since I hadn't planned on keeping them forever anyway. I have been watching how they do at mealtime and they aren't being outgunned for food so far. They do have a favorite cave and hang out there a lot, but nothing's threatening them and all seems well. I guess I could have misunderstood the seller, too, in terms of age. I bought 6 fish from him and I could be mis-remembering the age he said.

I think I'll start looking for a new home for them so they won't be out of place. I'm not quite sure how they could be stunted when they're so small right now. They certainly are not crowded in my tank.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

tirzo13 said:


> at 9 months, my frontosa are over 4 inches.
> In your mixed tank, your frontosa will get out competed for food, and continue to be stunted.
> In that tank they will not get big enough to eat your other fish.
> 
> ...


Those sizes seem a bit aggressive. Can someone else confirm?


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

boredatwork said:


> tirzo13 said:
> 
> 
> > at 9 months, my frontosa are over 4 inches.
> ...


 i'm content with 2" per year for the first 2 years. after 4", or 2 years old, i focus more on comparative weight gain. for a frontosa to be 4" at 9 months, seems a bit far left, but if it only gains another inch or so, by the time it is 21 months, then i suppose it's still in the ball park. IMO.


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## tirzo13 (May 26, 2004)

http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?t=991

not scientific, but what i been getting for years with inexpensive food, and missed water changes.
There are people who power grow who do better than this.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

tirzo13 said:


> http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?t=991
> 
> not scientific, but what i been getting for years with inexpensive food, and missed water changes.
> There are people who power grow who do better than this.


 when i measure, i do not consider the tail of a fish. it's OK if you do, but that detail appears to be the significant difference in our expectations. nice link, tirzo13. it's definitely a worthy bookmark for any cypho breeder.
any interest, in starting a thread, to discuss the potential causes of stunted progress?


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## GJx (Mar 13, 2003)

First off, I gotta say Tirzo...

http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?t=991

...that is one of the most interesting & clear examples of Font growth that I've ever seen laid out! I missed it when you first posted it, but I GOTTA show my wife & my friends who are hobbyist this ASAP!!

Thanks for that man!
:dancing:

On to the topic,...I've been keeping Fronts for 20 years now & back in 1989 when I got my first fry, I had them in a 29 g at first & they grew, but grew slowly & the common response on the matter of Front growth back then was that they were VERY slow growing fish, so from year to year_,....( I kept them until most were 17 years old) _ THE FIRST TWO, it seemd like they only grew very little.

I then housed them in a 75 g & they seemed to take off & outgrew that tank in the next year or so & then went on to a 125 g & the 150g that they were in until they died. So I think that what happened in my case showed that they would grow in a smaller tank, but not as fast as they did in the 125 & 150 g.

NOW, that 12 Kitumbas that I bought last year, the larger ones I've had for approximately 14 months which are ALL arond 4 - 5 inches, & the smaller ones, which are around 7 months & are all from 3 to 3.5 inches, seem to be growing slower than the ones you referenced, but somewhere around that standard.

Overall as my experience goes,...I'd have to agree with you.
=D>  
:fish:


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## tirzo13 (May 26, 2004)

lloyd said:


> when i measure, i do not consider the tail of a fish. it's OK if you do, but that detail appears to be the significant difference in our expectations. nice link, tirzo13. it's definitely a worthy bookmark for any cypho breeder.
> any interest, in starting a thread, to discuss the potential causes of stunted progress?


you are correct Lloyd, two ways to measure.
TL vs SL.
TL is total length, including tail.
SL is standard length, not including tail.

In the old days we only used SL, now it seems most people use TL.
at any rate for most fish i use TL, the only times i use SL is say with bushynose longfins vs. shortfins, for fish that have long and short types it would be misleading.
really we should all use 1 system.


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## tirzo13 (May 26, 2004)

GJx, thanks.
I actually posted that whole growth sequence here, but seems like CF does not save all the posts they only go back a few years.
Anyway, i actually stage my fry in small tanks.
you can keep them in small tanks, just got to overfilter and change the water more often.

My theory with putting fry in huge tanks is that they are too shy to move all around a big tank looking for the food.
I prefer to have the food right there in front of them that they can't miss.

Charles did a great sequence on his Kitumba fry growth.

I'm trying to get a friend of mine to split up a group of our Zaire fry.
he use's Brand $ that many people love, big tanks and big water changes.
me with spirulina, small tanks, and small water changes.

i know just because i see his fish grow all the time who will win.


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