# Cyprichromis Dying



## Dego510 (Mar 9, 2009)

Hi All,

I know that there a lot of threads of Cyps getting "skinny" and ultimately dying. While I've had a couple cyps die that way, I'm running into a different way of them dying. They are floating around NOT skinny, but swimming around disoriented and upside down. Last week, I had a female die that way. Tonight, I just noticed that I have another 2 females struggling to swim correctly . . . mostly swimming upside down but they don't have any other signs of illness.
Fish are in a 125G with holey rock. Tankmates include 7 Paracyprichromis Nigripinnis, 6 multies, and 5 1" black calvus. None of the other fish have died or are sick. I started with 16 adult Cyp Utinta and am now down to 12. Meanwhile, my Nigripinnis are spawning.
I feed them NLS and tank has been running for 6 months. Water quality is fine . . . no ammonia or nitrites. Low nitrates. I bought the Cyps 2 months ago and they were fine the first month and slowly started losing their colors.

Any ideas what is causing this? How can I treat this?


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Sounds like an illness, possibly a parasite. I recommend "delousing" the tank- that's what I call a long duration treatment with a broad spectrum antiparasitic like praziquantel or metronidazole.

The biggest problem here is your tank size- it can be expensive to threat that much water long enough to get rid of some of the more persistent bugs. One option is to run the tank at a lower water level, though that really depends on your filtration setup.

Another option is to convince your local veterinarian to give a prescription for metronidazole. It's cheap to pick up at the pharmacy, but expensive to buy enough FishZole to treat your tank. Here's what I recommend strongly- because it's worked for me several times, and others have reported back with good results. You'll have to scale up to your tank size (your veterinarian might have issues with this, but explain the solubility issues...) 


> Considerations with using any biocide like metro are to make sure you balance dosing strongly enough to kill harmful pests and long enough to avoid encouraging resistance to metro, while ensuring that the treatment isn't worse than the disease (I've only ended with dead fish when I've used Clout).
> 
> FYI, it's important to consider the pH of your tank when dosing with metro. Reports from use in aquaculture suggest that in alkaline waters, metro becomes inert after a few hours. I've used the following technique on catfish, mbuna, cyps, paracyps, gobies, julies, calvus, xenos etc with no deaths during treatment.
> 
> ...


Dosing twice a day for several days appears to overcome the solubility issues of metro in alkaline water. Not feeding and using Epsom salt as a laxative is important for metro to be able to clear out the fish gut. I've never seen any improvement when using metro-laced foods.


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## Dego510 (Mar 9, 2009)

Thanks, triscuit.

I don't have a veterinarian since I don't have any other pets. If I call one up randomly, will they give me a prescription for metronidazole?

BTW, those 2 fish died but I want to prevent more deaths.


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## Dego510 (Mar 9, 2009)

Nevermind the veterinarian route. I called a bunch in the chicagoland area and none of them will prescribe the metro. The exotic animal hospital won't even prescribe it without me bringing the fish in. I'm not doing that.

This sucks and hopefully this doesn't pass to my Paracyp Nigripinnis. Can I take all the Cyp Utinta out of the 125G and put them in a 20 gallon for a one week treatment?


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## scully (Feb 6, 2013)

You can buy fairy large quantities from this place at a reasonable price. Should only take 2 or so days to get to you. Normally I get shipments the next day but I'm in the same state.

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-suppli ... owder.html


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## Dego510 (Mar 9, 2009)

Thanks, Scully! I got super excited but it's currently out of stock.


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## Dego510 (Mar 9, 2009)

Found on Jehmco


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## scully (Feb 6, 2013)

Oh darn I never checked. Plus they are bigger now so shouldn't take long to restock..........yes time is of the essence. Good to know another source


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## Dego510 (Mar 9, 2009)

Triscuit - Just to be clear . . . On the first 4 days of treatment, I would be putting in 7 full doses of Metro (of course, following the steps in your directions).

On 100gallons of water, that's 2.5 grams of metro in a full dose. Epsom salt on 100gal would be 20tbsp (1.25 cups).

Is this correct? Don't want to overdose and kill them.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

I bought mine directly from Seachem - http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... azole.html


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Yes- seven full doses, interspersed with the water changes. And, yep, that sounds about right with the epsom. Predissolve in hot water, and slowly bring the concentration of epsom up over a few hours. (So, I might dissolve 1/2 cup salt in a pan on the stove with 4 cups water, let it cool slightly, and pour that in. Then repeat again in an hour until full amount is added)

***Important***

I didn't include the *fasting *part of the regimen- Do not feed your fish anything until Day 6. They will not starve, but the best results from the meds and epsom occur when the gut tract is completely empty.


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## Dego510 (Mar 9, 2009)

Thanks, triscuit!

I added the epsom salt last night. Figured it wouldn't hurt to start with that now. I should be getting the metronidazole in the mail on Saturday. Once I get that, I'll start your regimen and stop feeding.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Sounds like a plan. Feed lightly now though, and maybe get a couple large water changes in (with vacuuming the substrate). Remember to replace Epsom when adding fresh water.


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## Dego510 (Mar 9, 2009)

Btw...one of the fish that was swimming upside down for a couple day has fully recovered with the Epsom salt. Too bad I didn't add Epsom salt earlier. I probably could've saved the other one.


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## Dego510 (Mar 9, 2009)

Trisuit or anyone else that has used Metro -

I just stripped my female Paracyprichromis Nigripinnis last night of 8 fry. (First time stripping a fish - success) Problem is that I have the fry in a breeder's box in the main tank and I should be getting my metro in the mail today so I can start treatment. Can I treat the tank with metro while the fry are in there? Or will it kill them? I wanted to avoid putting the fry in their own tank for fear that they may die with water parameters not exactly matching the main tank.

Let me know. Thanks!


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

I have had good luck with other fry and metro, but the breeder box may be less ideal than a separate tank.


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## Dego510 (Mar 9, 2009)

Triscuit - I've followed your treatment exactly as you had advised. The cyps are still dying. The more recent deaths are them dying without any signs of wasting . . . they are of good weight but just starting swimming/floating around the tank oddly and sometimes upside down. Within a day or 2, they die. I'm now down to 5 cyps. The Paracyps are doing fine, as well as the paracyp fry.

I decided to put the remaining 5 cyps and the paracyps in a 20G Long and start the treatment over EXCEPT I will feed lightly instead of not feeding at all.

What a waste of money! Throwing away 1 fish a day is depressing.

Oh, one more question . . . I feed them NLS Grow, which usually sinks but a few pellets sometimes float and I notice the Cyps taking air bubbles with their food. Could that be a problem?


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

That sucks- I'm sorry that your fish are still dying. Usually if the metro is going to help, you'll notice some improvement pretty soon after treatment.

Air isn't a problem for cyps... but you can always swirl the food in a cup of water and dump it in if you're worried.

Does the fish poop look normal? Are they breathing heavily?

What exactly are your water parameters? pH/GH/KH/temp/NO3/NO2/NH3

What are you running for filtration? Heater?

At this point we need to start looking at other causes. It's not abnormal for a water quality or disease to affect the species quite differently.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Did you do anything different within a week or two of your first cyp dying? Change in water? Change in maintenance, filter, etc?? Think carefully on this, as sometimes seemingly small inconsequential things can wreak havoc.


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