# Sand, sand, sand, what about gravel?



## BarbieBubbles (Dec 29, 2012)

My former angelfish/community tank has black coated pebbles in it. I am converting it to a chichlid tank (out with the plants and in with rock caves) I love the look of this substrate. Other than food being trapped easier (than with sand) is this a bad idea for chichlids? I always do a weekly vaccuum with a 25% waterchange.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

You want a mbuna tank, right? If you want to observe the natural spawning/digging behaviors then you should go with sand.


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## slb.76 (Jul 30, 2012)

I've had gravel, crushed coral, and now sand (PFS), hands down the sand looks the best.


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## BarbieBubbles (Dec 29, 2012)

I plan to have all Male Haps and Peacocks (maybe some yellow Labs) so spawning not an issue.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

They still sift and dig even without females but it's up to you. I find it entertaining.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Haps and peacocks sift sand through their gills even more than mbuna IME. It is a behavior they use to look for food and also spawning (they build depressions in the sand to attract females and even sand castles in the wild). It will not hurt them to have gravel. But you will not see this natural behavior.


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## BarbieBubbles (Dec 29, 2012)

So it's like if you've been used to living in a house with a backyard to play in, you move to a highrise with concrete all around it. I get it! I think I'll be changing the sustrate to sand. Now another question then. I'm getting mixed opinions...so adding a crushed coral or aragonite "Eco-Coomplete Chichlid substrate" does not really add minerals or help maintain a higher PH does it? Water changes would surely dilute any of these claims correct?


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## slb.76 (Jul 30, 2012)

BarbieBubbles said:


> So it's like if you've been used to living in a house with a backyard to play in, you move to a highrise with concrete all around it. I get it! I think I'll be changing the sustrate to sand. Now another question then. I'm getting mixed opinions...so adding a crushed coral or aragonite "Eco-Coomplete Chichlid substrate" does not really add minerals or help maintain a higher PH does it? Water changes would surely dilute any of these claims correct?


Go with Pool Filter Sand $10 for a 50lb bag, easy to clean, easy to maintain, looks great, and cichlids enjoy it, good luck


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

BarbieBubbles said:


> So it's like if you've been used to living in a house with a backyard to play in, you move to a highrise with concrete all around it. I get it! I think I'll be changing the sustrate to sand. Now another question then. I'm getting mixed opinions...so adding a crushed coral or aragonite "Eco-Coomplete Chichlid substrate" does not really add minerals or help maintain a higher PH does it? Water changes would surely dilute any of these claims correct?


They do add minerals that help maintain a stable PH. Lower PH makes them break down faster which in turn buffers the water.


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## BarbieBubbles (Dec 29, 2012)

Hey b3w4r3 I noticed you're from Fl. have you ever used beach sand for your tanks? Like I noticed on the Atl. side it's rough mixed with lots of cruched shells and coral and then on the Gulf side, say Siesta the sand is a fine white powder Quartz I think. Much to fine for a tank sustrate, I'm sure. But it was gorgeous I even brought some home to show my Canadian friends eh?


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

I haven't used it, but a lot of the sand on the gulf side has been hauled in, it's not natural. There are comparable sands to it. I think the quick-crete sand from home depot is a close match, and the sand they use on our job sites for masonry is the same super white sand. I almost filled some buckets with it, there's always a lot left and I can take it, but I wanted to try black sand.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have not found aragonite (said to be better than coral at stabilizing pH and adding minerals) to make any difference. Go with what you like...I have switched to pool filter sand for light and flourite black sand for dark.


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## mgreen44 (Dec 27, 2011)

Have mixed the crushed coral in with the sand but do not like the way it looks. Now I put the coral into media bags and into the canister filters where the water flows ovewr it to keep my PH up and my sand looks better to me.


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## BarbieBubbles (Dec 29, 2012)

mgreem44, have you done an actual PH test before and after adding the crushed coral inside your canister filter. How much of a difference did it make ? How often and what % do you change your water and does the PH go up right after the water change? Just wondering if it's worth the trouble...thanks.


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## mgreen44 (Dec 27, 2011)

I change 50% once a week my tap water is 6.8 I have tested 2-3 days after and it is 7.2 to 7.4. I also add one tablespoon aquarium salt per 5 gallons of water I change. I have read mixed reviews on this but feel like my fish do better. Not sure how this affects the PH. I run 2 canisters on both my 55g and keep the coral in all of them. there is a ph fall off right after the water change im sure but my goal is to keep it over 7.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

So the pH change may be due to your water being out of the pipes for 24 hours rather than the crushed coral.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

The alkaline coral is only slightly soluble in water so it takes a really long time to affect any change. If you change your water with any reasonable frequency, it will not make a significant impact. Use baking soda to buffer the pH. If harder water is desired epsom salts, or sea salts would be much more effective. Also, the beach sand is really bad in a tank. A friend of mine used it, and it turned nasty and foul. It is so fine it settles and packs in and doesn't allow water to move well through it, so for an aquarium it's really messy. The larger grain sand like pfs can be sifted by the fish, and doesn't trap debris. Get the darker sand DJ mentioned if you like a dark look.


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## mgreen44 (Dec 27, 2011)

Does aquarium salt have any effect on PH. I read that having the strong current from inside the filter flowing directly over the coral would do more than mixing it with the sand or gravel. Doesn't the PH usually go down after the water gets dirty fron fish waste and uneaten food. Do you think it is a waste of canister space to have the crushed coral. I keep mine in media bags and could remove it easily. This is an interesting subject wish we could get more info on it.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm not sure if aquarium salt affects pH per se, it may depend on the exact ingredients. Not only does fish waste tend to lower pH, but if you just leave water in a plastic bucket, the pH will drop on it's own. If you want to buffer the water, it's best to use something that's soluble enough to actually do something in a short period of time. Your filter area is better used for bio media or polishing media than for coral or aragonite.You can't beat baking soda as a first line water buffer. The amount needed may vary, but you can start at a rounded teaspoon per 10 gallons, and work from there. Once the pH hovers at the right range, you know you got it right. Over time, the pH will tend to drop, along with total alkalinity, but if you do regular water changes, the drop probably won't be much.


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## mgreen44 (Dec 27, 2011)

Do you mix it in water and add it all at once after every water change. I have bio-rings and polishing pads and the back sponges in my canisters and just started using Boyd's chemical pure. If the coral in not helping I could add more Bio. Does the coral act as Bio it has been in there a long time.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The coral acts as bio. We have so much media in our filters...I don't think one basket of coral is going to be a problem.

The impact is slightly better in a filter than on the bottom, but still not highly effective. If you need to buffer, use baking soda. If your KH is fine no need for any of this.


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

Go with both - I've arranged my tank so that there are 'pools' of sand surrounded by by 'hills' of the smaller rocks. The small rocks for hills around where my plants are planted. The sand gets sifted by the inhabitants. Since I have an UG filter system I have a layer of crushed shell that underlies all the other top dressing. It works well for the biofilter.

Anyone wanting to set up an UG should always include tubing that reaches under the gravel that you use to siphon out the water for your water change. That pulls out any of the built up debris under the filter. That way there's never any reason to disturb the substrate.


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## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

should i change out sand substrate after a certain amount of years?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

That should not be necessary.


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

The only concern I'd have about old media/substrate of any kind would be if you're getting phosphate precipitated out of the water in quantity. Under some conditions that phosphate can reenter the tank water, become organo-phosphate and lead to micro algae blooms. This tends to be prevented by keeping pH and KH on the high range (which keeps the phosphate out of solution) and making sure that your tank has good mixing by currents reaching all parts of it.


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