# Why wont my ammonia and nitrates lower?



## YoitsJode (Aug 24, 2012)

I tested my water last night about 8:00 on 9/3, my ammonia and nitrates were high so I added water conditioner. I tested it this morning and its still the same levels. Could it be because I took the carbon out of the filter? Also I have not done any type of water change in two weeks because I had just set up the aquarium, i plan on doing 25% later tonight. I also added some stress zyme this morning to help out the water levels praying it works!!!!!!!!


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Have you cycled the tank? If you are, (assuming you are doing a fishless cycle) have you been adding pure ammonia everyday and testing?


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## ChoxRox (Sep 8, 2011)

If you're using a seachem product (I think stability) while cycling, your ammonia will always read high-- or, at least for a few weeks.


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## YoitsJode (Aug 24, 2012)

The fish are in the tank, Im not doing a fishless cycle but I added gravel and fake plants from a the smaller tank I upgraded from . The water levels were perfect when I put them in and they were good last week, this week they just got much to high.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

I think you put too many fish in the tank, and your nitrifying bacteria can't keep up. I would wait until adding more fish. Test your water everyday until ammonia and nitrite are 0. Keep doing partial water changes every few days to keep the fish comfortable.


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## ChoxRox (Sep 8, 2011)

Heh, you're cycling with fish and you haven't done a water change in two weeks? I would suggest one of those first. I'm not sure on how often you're supposed to do water changes in "fishless" cycling (it's been so long since I cycled), but you will need to do them with fish because they are more sensitive. You could be doing permanent damage to them by keep ammonia/nitrates high. I would do a 10-20% water change and double dose with Prime (helps with the ammonia).

Also-- and I may need other people to chime in on this-- Stability by seachem is rumored to be a great product for cycling a tank with fish.


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## ChoxRox (Sep 8, 2011)

YoitsJode said:


> The fish are in the tank, Im not doing a fishless cycle but I added gravel and fake plants from a the smaller tank I upgraded from . The water levels were perfect when I put them in and they were good last week, this week they just got much to high.


Also, it does not surprise me that your levels were good before adding fish, since they are the prime source of ammonia in your tank. I would read this article: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cycling.php to understand better.


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## fusion (Jun 21, 2012)

Some dechlorinators (prime for example) will give a false reading, i would wait 24hrs to test after using a conditioner, as others have stated id would be doing regular small water changes.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Nitrates are not reduced by adding water conditioner...you can only remove them by doing water changes. What are the actual readings of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

Changing the water will not harm your bacteria...I'd change 50% or more depending on how high your readings are.

And...you may need to change water daily to keep toxins low enough since you are cycling with fish.


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## YoitsJode (Aug 24, 2012)

So I changed 10 gl of water tonight and I added prime by seachem. I will just keep testing the water and doing water changes every day till the levels are right. My ph is 8.2, my ammonia is 4.0ppm, my nitrite is 5.0ppm and my nitrate is about 80ppm.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Wow...I'd change 75% of the water and test again immediately.


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## ChoxRox (Sep 8, 2011)

YoitsJode said:


> So I changed 10 gl of water tonight and I added prime by seachem. I will just keep testing the water and doing water changes every day till the levels are right. My ph is 8.2, my ammonia is 4.0ppm, my nitrite is 5.0ppm and my nitrate is about 80ppm.


What size is the tank? It may have be necessary to do a bigger water change.

I've heard of people who do a 100% water change with no ill effects. I, in fact, frequently do close to 90% water changes in my fry tanks.


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## YoitsJode (Aug 24, 2012)

Also when I do a water change what should I add to the water to take out the chlorine and chemicals? I have a 55gl.


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## ChoxRox (Sep 8, 2011)

YoitsJode said:


> Also when I do a water change what should I add to the water to take out the chlorine and chemicals? I have a 55gl.


Prime or something comparable.


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

Keep in mind that when you're doing water changes, you need to get as much of the water out as possible at the same time. Think of it like this ...

You may think that by changing 10% every day for five days, you are removing 50% of the initial Nitrate. You aren't.

You're removing progressively less of the original nitrate load every day. Look at it this way:

You have 500 nitrate molecules to start with. You want to get your levels down. Meanwhile, your tank is producing 10 more nitrate every day.

Option #1: The 50% water change

Day 1: Water change! (500 Nitrates * .50)=250 nitrate molecules+10=260 by the end of the day
Day 2: 260+10=270 by the end of the day
Day 3: 270+10=280 by the end of the day
Day 4: 280+10=290 by the end of the day
Day 5: 290+10=300 by the end of the day

FINAL NITRATE: 300

Option #2: The 10% daily change
Day 1: WATER CHANGE! (500*.90)=450 Nitrates+10 per day=460 Nitrates
Day 2: WATER CHANGE! (460*.90)=414 Nitrates+10 per day=424 Nitrates
Day 3: WATER CHANGE! (424*.90)=381.6 Nitrates + 10 per day=391.6
Day 4: WATER CHANGE! (391.6*.90)=352.44 Nitrates + 10 per day=362.44
Day 5: WATER CHANGE! (362.44*.90)=326.196 Nitrates + 10 per day=326.196

FINAL NITRATE: 326.196

Conclusion: If you're trying to get a spike under control. It's a much better idea to do big water changes than a series of small ones.


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## ChoxRox (Sep 8, 2011)

Storiwyr said:


> Keep in mind that when you're doing water changes, you need to get as much of the water out as possible at the same time. Think of it like this ...
> 
> You may think that by changing 10% every day for five days, you are removing 50% of the initial Nitrate. You aren't.
> 
> ...


This is awesome! Thanks for posting this.


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## YoitsJode (Aug 24, 2012)

I did a 50% water change this morning and added more prime and salt. Friday (my only day off) I will change most of the water again. Then I'll look at it again on monday. Thanks so much or the help everyone!


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Storiwyr said:


> Keep in mind that when you're doing water changes, you need to get as much of the water out as possible at the same time. Think of it like this ...
> 
> You may think that by changing 10% every day for five days, you are removing 50% of the initial Nitrate. You aren't.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure whats the best method. My last spike I did 40% then 10% for 4 days and 40% again and the nitrates came down to 5-10ppm from probably 40-80ppm (I have a hard time telling exactly what they were). This was in one of my 75G tanks. I did a lot of reading trying to find the best way to bring them down in the best manner for the fish. Some readings indicated that too many massive water changes were not good. That was why I spaced the large ones 5 days apart. Anyway, this is one of the articles that I read. It has a lot of technical stuff which I don't really understand but uses the same premise you used Storiwyr with additional information regarding "how often" to make the changes

https://sites.google.com/site/moashowmanyfish/why-are-water-changes-necessary


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Keep in mind your nitrate readings will be off when nitrite is present in your tank. I wouldn't even bother testing for nitrate until your nitrite readings are 0 ppm. Doing water changes to keep your ammo and nitrite down will keep any nitrate in check. Nitrate is much less of a threat than your high ammonia and nitrite readings.

IMO, you should be doing more and larger water changes than what you have scheduled.


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## YoitsJode (Aug 24, 2012)

Ok if I do another 50% water change today should I put more prime and salt in?


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## fusion (Jun 21, 2012)

Yes on the prime, why are you adding salt?


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## YoitsJode (Aug 24, 2012)

I add salt to keep the stress down and and healthy while this is going on.


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## ChoxRox (Sep 8, 2011)

Mmmm... seasoning.

What kind of salt are you using?


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## YoitsJode (Aug 24, 2012)

API aquarium salt. I also just bought ammo chips. Any comments on those?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Rely on your water changes and your beneficial bacteria...not chemicals. What are your test readings now that you have done a 50% water change?


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## YoitsJode (Aug 24, 2012)

My nitrite is 0.25ppm and my ammonia is 0.50pp this morning and Im going to do another 50% water change now.


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

cichlid-gal said:


> I'm not sure whats the best method. My last spike I did 40% then 10% for 4 days and 40% again and the nitrates came down to 5-10ppm from probably 40-80ppm (I have a hard time telling exactly what they were). This was in one of my 75G tanks. I did a lot of reading trying to find the best way to bring them down in the best manner for the fish. Some readings indicated that too many massive water changes were not good. That was why I spaced the large ones 5 days apart. Anyway, this is one of the articles that I read. It has a lot of technical stuff which I don't really understand but uses the same premise you used Storiwyr with additional information regarding "how often" to make the changes
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/moashowmanyfish/why-are-water-changes-necessary


OMG DATA GEEKING opcorn: Sorry. I got a little excited when I saw the graphs. *cough*

I think with nitrates, you may have to consider what will be best for the fish, and in that case smaller water changes (as long as you're changing enough water often enough that nitrate levels can't keep up) may be better? But if you're dealing with something highly toxic like Ammonia or Nitrite, doing one big water change is more efficient than doing daily small ones. You could do daily huge ones if you wanted, but it's not necessary, as those lovely graphs show. 

The TL;DR of all this is: A bigger water change is better than a smaller water change when you're trying to drop ammonia or nitrite, and a big water change in a five day period is not the same as five smaller water changes that 'add up' to the big water change in volume over the same five day period.


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