# Cichlid newbie..! needs help with stocking first tank



## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi everyone,

hope you can help me, I recently aquired a 50g / 240l tank which I have assembled & got ready to take Malawi cichlids, but I need help with what fish & how many to put in the tank.

What i'm looking for is some advice on the best cichlids I should go for (i.e most varied colours, most interesting looking etc) & also how many of each I should get...

if people could also post any pictures of the fish they are talking about that would help me immensly

any advice is greatfully appreciated

thanks
kevin


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

what are the dimensions of your tank?

Most likely (if it is smaller than 4" in length) it will only be suitable for a single species of dwarf mbuna _OR_ a few peacocks and a small group of labs.


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

hi

aquarium size is 120cm long x 40cm wide x 55cm so 3.93 ft

thanks


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_55g.php

cookie cutter suggestion for tanks close to the size of yours


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Hi..

I have a 55 gallon and decided to go with only 2 species of mbuna. I chose Metriaclima Callainos and Labidochromis Caeruleus (otherwise known as Cobalt Blue Zebras and Yellow Labs). You can Google their names and find thousands of photos of what they look like. The Cobalt Blue Zebras are absolutely beautiful fish, but of course it's all a matter of opinion. I wanted the contrast of colors. The blue fish and the yellow fish look great together. I have a black background and it makes their colors pop even more (along with my Zoo Med Reef Sun bulbs). I have both males and females in my tank. I bought them all as juvies online. They are now mature. I have never had any crossbreeding issues and these two species have never tried to fight each other. It's a very peaceful tank.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Cichlid New Boy said:


> hi
> 
> aquarium size is 120cm long x 40cm wide x 55cm so 3.93 ft
> 
> thanks


Well your tank is a four foot tank which is good news. You can have more species than just one mbuna. If you do only keep two species you might want to get two species that have different looking males and females.

Maybe msobo and white top afra would be a good combo. If you wanted something brighter maybe P. Saulosi and some Red zebras.

Or you could go peacocks.

Just let us know what fish you like.


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## Hoggy Boss (Oct 4, 2006)

Read up first. You can narrow you choices down by tank size and requirements of the fish.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/c ... .php?cat=2


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

thanks for suggestions so far guys, I like the look of the White top afra & the peacocks, and also the red zebras look good to add some colour, but I also think I would like some yellow labs..!

I've read that people suggest to overstock to keep aggression down but how many fish is overstocking in a 50g..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Choose 3 species and then depending on your choices we can tell you how many of each. A typical number is one male and four females of each.

You may not want to mix peacocks and mbuna (white tops, red zebras, yellow labs). And red zebras and yellow labs hybridize so don't keep them together if you want to save fry from either species.


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

So no Peacocks & Mbuna is this due to agression issues...?

So i'm heading towards white tops, yellow labs...can anyone suggest another that would compliment these 2..?

Also I guess the LFS will be able to get the male / female ratio that I ask for...?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i assume white tops are the Cynotilapia sp. "hara"

1m/4f Cynotilapia sp. "hara"
5 yellows labs
5 Iodotropheus sprengerae maybe


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

That would be a pretty nice combo.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

GaFishMan1181 said:


> That would be a pretty nice combo.


and a very simple and easy one for a beginner

as for buying them, i would suggest finding an online breeder, these places are generally much better at id'ing and sexing fish, you have a better chance of getting what you want, and a better chance of getting pure fish and not hybrids

edit: just realized you are in England so i don't know how well my suggestion applies


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## drevim (Dec 10, 2009)

Like others, I don't know what the LFSs are like over there, nor what your ordering online options are, but online is better in the states.

If you don't mind a mixed tank, mbunas and peacocks (I don't have an issue of mixing), you can have yellow labs with peacocks. They tend to be one of the most peaceful of the mbunas, and _*usually*_ get along well. Not sure with the tank size of the best ratio, for a mixed tank.


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

thanks for all the help so far guys...

just out of interest why do people recommend to get 4-5 of the same fish of 3 species rather than 15 different species..?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

because adding multiple females spreads out the aggression of the males, makes life easier for all fish, and this is most important for mbuna


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

ok so i like the idea of:

1m/4f Cynotilapia sp. "hara" 
5 yellows labs 
5 Iodotropheus sprengerae

but has anyone got any other ideas for alternatives to the Iodotropheus sprengerae..?

I just wanna make sure i'm completly happy before I start getting my LFS to cost things up..


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

they are easier to handle than other, but you could replace them with either one of the following

Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos (1m/5-6f) 
Metriaclima greshakei (1m/4f)
Pseudotropheus socolofi (1m/4f)
Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (1m/4f)

acei might outgrow the tank, i think the key is to not overfeed them


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

good suggestions, many thanks...gonna have a think & i'll let you all know what i decide...

if there is anyone based in the uk who can recommend some good suppliers I would be very greatful..!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Please take a look at the Reviews section as we are not permitted to include specific vendor feedback (good or bad) in the forums. You can also PM other members to inquire.

I'd avoid Acei in a four foot tank because they are larger mbuna and like to be in large groups. I also find the Socolofi, Acei and Cynotilapia sp. hara (a.k.a. white tops) have similar colors and although they mix well, I like more of a contrast between my species. Probably the same issue with greshakei.

I like the maingano idea!

You could get 15 different species (well maybe not quite) but you would want all male fish. All-male tanks are challenging enough in a 48" x 18" with peacocks. All-male in a 48" x 12" tank with mbuna might be too difficult.

In the US we cannot buy known male and/or female fish except from certain vendors and the price is higher. We usually just get extra juveniles and remove extra males as the fish mature.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

it's hard to find fish that aren't too aggressive and don't all look too similar, i didn't want to toss out too many aggressive fish and i agree that the maingano would probably be the best sub for the rusty

i tried to think of something blue barred, but i couldn't

if you like any of the lighter blue fish, you could exchange the hara for an afra cobue maybe


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

so is an afra cobue the same as a Cynotilapia... as that is what google seems to say..?

and is the black/yellow/blue the usual colouring for males & females...?

would this go with the labs & the hara..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Cynotilapia sp hara
Cynotilapia afra cobue

You may want to avoid two cynotilapia in the same tank, also two blue barred fish in the same tank could give you problems.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I am going to try two cyno's in the same tank but i have plenty of other tanks if it doesn't work out.

I am trying Cyno Hara white top and cyno afra likoma red tops together in a 55g.

I will be carefully looking to see if the hara male is trying to breed with likoma females and visa versa.

Not saying i recommend this but i am going to give it a shot. I definitly wouldnt recommend this for beginners or someone with only one tank.


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

DJRansome... what the fish in your profile pic..?

ideally I would like that, yellow labs & one other..


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

demasoni, they need to be kept in groups of 12 or more so if you want them, then you need about 12 of those, 5 labs, and 1m/4f cynotilapia sp. hara


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

I do like that combination, but that does mean there will be around 20 fish in total..?

did I read that wrong...?

also do you think it maybe too many blue fish..?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

actually i was just thinking that dj had said his cynotilapia sp. hara tend not to color as well around his dems.

yes its two blueish fish, but that doesn't matter, but maybe instead of the hara try the Metriaclima greshakei (1m/4f) or Pseudotropheus socolofi (1m/4f)


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

If I went with yellow labs & demasoni can anyone recommend a red/orange or maybe white fish that will go well..?

I like the Metriaclima greshakei, but couldnt tell if they are mostly white or mostly blue, google has loads of photo's of both colours..!


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

maybe an albino greskakei or socolofi, actual white is hard to come by without going albino

red is tough with mbuna, and the closest to orange i can think of are the red zebras but i don't suggest keeping them with yellow labs


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

the albino greskakei looks good, are albino's as easy to get as normal fish...?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

just have to find a place that sells them


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

ok thanks, I will have a look to see what's around, any other suggestions if they arnt available..?


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

If i was you i would find out what all is available to you first and then tell us what you can get and we will help you pick compatible fish.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

you can get whatever fish you listed, you might have to use different places, but they are not hard to find fish


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## shaguars7 (Apr 12, 2009)

I am a bit wary of albino fish...i am not really familiar with them though. I have no experience with them, for i look working with natural fish out there. I do not know if these fish will breed with anything else?? if someone knows i would love to learn myself. you could get maybe labeotrophus fulleborni...the females come in a orange blotch and some can get quite light so it is a nice mbuna to work with and keep some with yellow labs..


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## shaguars7 (Apr 12, 2009)

sorry i read more after and saw you dont want yellow labs...but maybe a perlmutt...there nice and would work also


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

> I am a bit wary of albino fish...i am not really familiar with them though. I have no experience with them, for i look working with natural fish out there. I do not know if these fish will breed with anything else?? if someone knows i would love to learn myself. you could get maybe labeotrophus fulleborni...the females come in a orange blotch and some can get quite light so it is a nice mbuna to work with and keep some with yellow labs..


i think this is a bad suggestion for his size tank, and it's up to the owner whether or not they want albinos



> sorry i read more after and saw you dont want yellow labs...but maybe a perlmutt...there nice and would work also


he does want yellow labs, where did you read that he didn't?


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

ok so I could go with

12x 









5x 









5x 









I think that would go quite well...!


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

what's the last one?


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I would only do the demasoni and labs but i would start with 15 demasoni and do 5 labs with them.


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

according to google the last one is a perlmutt..!

could I maybe have less demasoni & still have some perlmutt..?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i am still unsure about mixing two lab species together, someone else will have to chime in about that one, it looks different enough to be fine, i just don't know how these act together


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

and no you have to have 12+ demasoni

in all honesty don't really listen to people saying what they would keep, it's up to you, just because someone else would only do labs and dems, doesn't mean you have to, and just because someone else doesn't like albinos doesn't mean you shouldn't


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

Ok thanks,

I might just go for those 3 & see how it goes, just out of interest why do people advise not to put those 2 together..? aggression, crosss breeding..?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Labidochromis perlmut and caeruleus will readily crossbreed.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

cjacob316 said:


> in all honesty don't really listen to people saying what they would keep, it's up to you, just because someone else would only do labs and dems, doesn't mean you have to, and just because someone else doesn't like albinos doesn't mean you shouldn't


Of course you dont have to listen to the advice people give you but you did ask for our help.

I have heard many horror stories with demasoni. 12 seems to be the magic number but i would go 15.

If you buy only 12 whats going to happen if 2 of them die (you did say your new to cichlids; mistakes do happen). Well then your demasoni are going to start killing each other off.

If you start with 15 that at least gives you a little bit extra fish to work with.

Your tank is only 50g. Your going to find that 3 species of fish (when 1 of them is 12+ fish) is going to be way overstocked.

Go with 2 species and if after a year or so you think you need more fish then go ahead. (with my plan of 2 species your going to have 20 fish in a 50g which i think is already on the edge of being overstocked.

As cjacob pointed out its your tank so do as you like.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

you just have to be careful with the way you give your opinion, explain why, because when i saw his response it makes me feel like he thinks that he can't do certain things, and he started to try to adjust number downward to fit other fish in, which would be a bad idea, and 12 dems are worth 6 labs of stock imo

and i do agree that starting with 15 dems is good in case stuff happens


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

People avoid species that crossbreed because they are uncomfortable destroying fry. And there is not much else you can do with hybrid fry. Can't sell them or give them away and we don't all have enough tanks to house each of the 100s of hybrid fry that can be produced for 8 years (their lifetimes).


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks for all your help guys, i really do appreciate & i'm trying to take everything on board..

ideally I would like 3 different species in my tank so i'm thinking maybe I should change the demasoni for something where I wont need as many numbers...

any suggestions for something of similar colour which would only need 5 or 6 to stay happy..?


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

sorry also I really dont want any trouble with cross breeding so I guess I will have to think of an alternative to the perlmutt as well..!


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

how about

L. sp. "Perlmutt"
M. estherae
C. afra (Jalo Reef) or any other blue barred afra


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

so my research continues.....& i foundthis one while searching around on google.. it looks amazing, has anyone got any experience with these..?

would they go with the labs..?

i believe they are called Tramitichromis (Lethrinops) intermedia


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

could I go for 5 of the above

5 of these Metriaclima sp "msobo" (as i've read the females are yellow?)










and 5 Cynotilapia afra "White Top"


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

no, i would not mix mbuna with haps/peacocks with the exception of yellow labs, sometimes rusties and acei

hap/peacock females are drab and ugly and will all very easily cross breed


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

what about cynotilapia sp. "hara" (white top hara), yellow labs, Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos (Maingano)


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## shaguars7 (Apr 12, 2009)

If you like the tram intermedius it is something you could try. I have 1 male 3 females in with 1 male 3 female yellow labs and 1 male 3 female labeotrophus fulleborni...people may scoff at that but i had them all together since they were under 2 inches. They all get along great and are all about 3.5-5 inches now so you can try things some may say wont work... the tram male is actually the boss of the tank and sure the females are silver but theres only 3 silver fish in the whole tank so i actually like them in there it fills out the spectrum for me. sometimes you just have to make your own mistakes and learn from them..what works for some other people may not work for you and vice versa....
I am looking forward to hearing what you do end up stocking it with.


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

i'm so confused....!

i like the white top hara & the yellow labs, but just can't decide on the 3rd...i'm not so keen on the horizontal striped cichlids..so would prefer something different that also compliments those 2...

sorry to be such a pain...i never knew getting the right combination would be so tricky..!


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

so is the Tramitichromis (Lethrinops) intermedia a hap or a peacock..?

and is it just agression that is the issue..? can you help the situation by having a well built up tank..?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

it's a hap, high risk imo, but it's up to you, your biggest problem is going to be having enough space for the fish to run, and haps need open water space, a 50 gallon tank makes it tough to fulfill multiple habitat needs


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

This is your first tank man and its about as small a tank for mbuna as your going to want. I would make it very simple. Your going to get more tanks in the future it always happens. Since this is your first one i would make it as simple as possible.

You dont have to get all the fish at once either. I have started many tanks with just one species and added more later.

Why not go get whatever fish you like the most and just start with one species (get alot of juvies and then watch them grow) when you know more about what you like then you can add in another species if you wanted.

I'm glad you are considering every option but your going to drive yourself crazy.

If you like the demasoni go get 15 of them and start a tank.

Howa bout some saulosi. The males and females look different and you could get 3m 9-12f in your tank.

If you want more than 1 species go with some labs and maybe some m. callainos (cobalt zebra).

4 pages later and you still are just as unsure of what you want as on page 1. Just dont try to make it too complex. Do a tank that others have done and you know will work and later when you get another tank you can try more advance combinations or fish.


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## shaguars7 (Apr 12, 2009)

my only concern about adding fish later is most people buy juvies so than can watch them grow. If he were to get one species and then in a few months add more he may run into problems with aggression, because territories will be established. And 4 ft tanks is not tiny remember that...I know there not huge but his only concern will be piling rocks and what not for the mbuna..if he goes the slate way he should not have issue with them..If you do like the idea of mixing species by all means it is your tank and everyone on this site has had success with many things that others have not....you seem to be very keen on getting the perfect mix...which i admire you for, but like one of the last posts said you will pull your hair put trying to come up with the perfect combo....people mix haps and peacocks and mbuna and vics together and have had success with it, so you try something out and see if it works. if you like the labs and trams and cyno's try it out. IMO if you do want to do that i suggest you get the trams first and keep them in the tank for a week or to to sort things out..hiding spots and what not and then introduce the other 2. I think if there all juvies it should work out.....and if you have serious aggression problems which i dont unless cyno's are terrors you should be fine.
All in my opinion and I dont want to step on anyones toes.! once again cant wait to hear what you end up with.!!!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'm wondering if the cyno's would be too much for the hap? My cynotilapia sp. hara killed a peacock, LOL.

How about Cynotilapia sp. hara, Labidochromis caeruleus and Pseudotropheus Socolofi albino? Yellow, blue and white.


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## dondosae1 (Nov 30, 2009)

This very question is what I wished I would have asked. Lots of great advice here. I just put my first 3 fish in my tank (2 Lab. Caeruleus & 1 Astatolipia Latifasciata) and was hoping to add some more...maybe 10 fish total. Am alittle worried with my initial buy (the Asta) I wanted the L.C's as they are very common, but didn't know if they would do ok with the A.L.

Anyway, was looking to get another "blue" 'ish looking fish to add. Got some good ideas here. I will keep reading here for sure. I really like the Cynotilapia sp. "hara. Should not cause problems with my labs, right?

Thanks.


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

hi everyone,

thanks for the advice so far, i am nearing my decision I promise..!

can someone tell me do the male & female demasoni look similar..? are the both balck/blue barred..?


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## shaguars7 (Apr 12, 2009)

yes the demasoni male and female look similar....both black and blue barring if you will call it black more like bark blue and light blue...but yes look the same


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

After so much reading..i think I may now go with the 12-15 demasoni, togetherwith 5 yellow labs.

I'm going to take a few pics of my tank..so you guys can get an idea of what they are going into & see if you guys approve..!

If there are any uk demasoni/yellow lab suppliers reading this please get in touch..!


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

hi guys pic of my tank as promised










let me know if pic is too big & i'll remove..


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## dondosae1 (Nov 30, 2009)

GREAT tank!


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## shaguars7 (Apr 12, 2009)

thats a nice looking tank mate.!!! I hope you enjoy the dems and labs!!.....i am sure you will have more tanks in no time so this thread will be revisited..lol....I am setting up a 130gallon in about 4 months so keep an eye out for my thread...by then you will be a pro and telling me what to get....it is funny because it will be the longest i have ever planned a tank for and it is not because i want too wait but my old house cant support the weight of it...lol....so a room in the old cellar is under construction to house it and will become a beauty little fish room...look out for that thread also....good luck with finding a breeder or a lfs to get it.....I think another good option for you would be look into getting some fish from the netherlands or germany preferably they are more serious than in the states, so high quality fish could be had i am sure at a good price......and as for the shipping time well i know people here in Toronto who have ordered fish from california. Thats a 5 hour plus flight.!!!!


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

hi guys,

just checking will suppliers be able to tell male/female labs & demasoni if they are only 4-5cm..?

if so what ratio should i be asking for..?

thanks


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Maybe, but at least in the US it's difficult to buy those species sexed and they cost more. We usually don't worry about ratios for Demasoni and Labs. If there is a problem with too many males when they mature, we remove exess males then.

It would be perfect to have one male and the rest females. Since the genders look alike, there is not the pressure to try for the maximum number of males.

My tank has at least 3 dominant male demasoni at any given time. But I also have to remove sub-dom males to prevent deaths on a regular basis. So a single male would give you a more peaceful tank.


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## shaguars7 (Apr 12, 2009)

what kind of background is in that tank?....i like it


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

its just a shopbought pre-made background by back to nature

http://www.backtonature.se/index.html

its quite expensive, but very easy to work with & really thin so doesnt take up much room.


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi guys,

Cycling is going well & pretty sure i'm gonna go with Demasoni & some yellow labs,

can anyone suggest a plec / catfish that will go well with these - i need one that wont grow very big as I plan to stick with the 55g for a couple of years

thanks


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## Buddy.08 (Apr 26, 2007)

what is the dark objects in your aquarium? driftwood? if so what type?


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## shaguars7 (Apr 12, 2009)

for a catfish lots of people keep synodontis with there africans but if you plan on breeding the cichlids the syno will lower your numbers of young cichlids. Also they do not eat algae so dont get them for that purpose.


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

> what is the dark objects in your aquarium? driftwood? if so what type?


Its bogwood (I guess thats the same as driftwood) most of it has come from my last tank that was set up for a few years (I've been monitoring the PH & its around 8 at the moment..)

I'm not massively fussed about breeding, if it happens it happens, but I will just leave them to it, so if any survive i'll keep them.

What kind of size does a syno grow to...?

any particular benifits for catfish over a cichlid..?


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## shaguars7 (Apr 12, 2009)

well you can get synodontis that range in size. from less than 4 inches to well over 6 inches.

well as for the advantages or disadvantages of catfish to cichlids.. i am not sure there is a definate one...because you can house them togther.. I also think that once your cichlids start breeding you may want to take more of an active role and save fry...well thats what happened to me anyways.


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

Sorry mean to say the benifits of a catfish over a pleco...

sorry.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you mean benefits of a syno over a pleco...

Synodontis are way cooler and add to the tank, for some they become the favorites even over the cichlids. They are sleek and move like sharks and are great fun to watch. Will help clean up extra food but not much on removing algae unless you starve them.

Plecos IMO are more of a work horse that is a little on the ugly side and you hope no one notices them. But bristlenose do clean the algae. Way cheaper than synodontis.


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## phorty (Oct 30, 2009)

Lots of good info in this thread which helps a Mbuna newb like me. I plan on upgrading my 55 planted tank soon so I'll new to stock the 55. I'll use the advice found in here!

Update?


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

No real update as yet...

but have almost fully cycled my tank using the fishless method & a lot of help frov prov365 (thanks)

so when the has finally all sorted I will be looking to purchase some demasoni & yellow labs & also a bristlenose pleco...


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## Cichlid New Boy (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Guys,

Picked up fish last sunday, sorry about the delay in posting some pics....

In my tank is 15 demasoni, 5 yellow labs & 1 bristlenose plec (no photos's of him yet though)..!


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