# Sticky  G.E. Silicone 1



## MudbugnLouisiana

You guys have asked many questions on this topic so here is the Sticky you asked for. 

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... hp?t=21059 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... e+silicone


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## Axl

The GE 1 sillicone is supposedly the same exact stuff in the All Glass Tubes.

All Glass buys their sillicone from GE. This is why the GE1 used to say "aquarium safe" but doesn't now.

You can call GE but for the "legal reasons" mentioned elsewhere they aren't really supposed to say its the same thing, but they more or less should if you get ahold of sombody decent.


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## Michelle

And if you are in Canada just go to Canadian Tire, there in house brand of silicone says right on it "aquarium safe" 8)


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## cichSavvy

I began work on my tank using the ge silicone I w&d. The smell is pretty strong even after it cured. Is that common and in any way affect the fish?


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## Rob A

cichSavvy,
It smells just like vinigar. I think all silicones have this smell. Usually after 24-36 hours or so, when it fully cures, the smell will go away. If you can still smell it, wait a little longer. Might even want to wait a few more days after the smell is gone, just to be on the safe side.


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## coinkid285

I got ge silicone bath and sink from home depot in the paint section and i have used this before and I have had no problem. It does smell like vineger(ALOT  ), dont get that stuff on you because it stays for about a week(it has to wear off, nothing gets it off)


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## SmokingJoe

In the local Albertson store, they sell GE silicon II, and it says "not for: ... Aquarium" so I am not sure if this topic was about the same product?


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## wetworx101

uh, there is a silicone solvent...


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## Mcdaphnia

Silicone I gives off acetic acid while curing. This is the vinegar smell. A friend of mine worked in Axelrod's aquarium building company many years ago and still has problems from the damage it did to his sinuses and lungs. Your body gives you no warning of the dangers of breathing in acid vapor. The hazard of smelling this stuff prompted the development of Silicone II which instead gives off ammonia. Your body knows about ammonia. II has about 80% of the strength of the original formulation, plenty for building a tank. Once the II is completely cured, it no longer gives off ammonia, but until then it is not safe with fish. If you do all your assembly and curing in a separate place from your fish, there should be no problem. However the company is off the hook with their disclaimer. I always use the original stuff but make sure have ventilation in the area, and a fan blowing fresh air right at my work site.


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## Mcdaphnia

Someone mentioned bath and tub caulk. That contains a mildewcide which will leach out into the water affecting fish and plants. The most common mildewcide used in this product is arsenic, a slow acting cumulative poison.


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## cich man

ya home hardware also canadian has there brand that is also aquarium safe. but dont look on the back of the tube for the info. cause it is only on the front in big letters aquarium safe.


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## finnyas

*DAP* brand 100% silicone cartridge number 43112 is food safe and aquarium safe I use all the time to repair aquariums.


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## kmbrush

Okay, so I need to know what the difference is between the silicones. I bought the GE silicone II - gutter and flashing. Is there a difference between this and the kitchen & bath version? I am putting rock onto pvc for caves in my aquarium.

Please let me know if there is a difference. I haven't finished this project and would like to know if I can continue.

:-?


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## finnyas

Yes there is a difference the bathroom,kitchen,silicone most times they
have fungicide in them and are toxic to fish
that is why you want to find the one I reccommended it is food safe and says so on the label. I t also is clear with no additive for coloring..there is a silicone which is black and safe to use it has the same cartridge number as the clear i posted...


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## Mcdaphnia

KMbrush, the Silicone II gives off ammonia while curing, so use it and cure it in a spot far away from all fish tanks. It does not contain arsenic or any other mildewcides. It is not as strong as original silicone but safer for you to use since breathing the acetic acid fumes from the original formulation is harzardous. Even the stronger formulation does not stick well to plastic pipe and many rocks. You could try Oatey brand all purpose cement instead. You can score the rocks and put some cement there to dry out before assembling the whole thing. http://www.cornerhardware.com/item_2637 ... 6-oz-.html


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## FeatherfinFan

Here's a link to a previous thread on the same topic some good links on it 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... icone+safe


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## Shleemazl

You can try underwater epoxy for gluing rocks, PVC, etc... This stuff cures underwater as well as dry, is completely non toxic and will permanently hold pourus material. Here is a link.

http://marinedepot.com/aquarium_miscell ... sp?CartId=


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## stsurbrook

Just as an FYI...

I spoke to Tom at GlassCages.com and he said that they DO sell 10.4oz tubes of aquarium silicone, though it is not listed on their web site. Price is $6.00 each. All you have to do is pay shipping (varies, depending on where you live). I ordered 4 tubes today to secure my foam background (when I get it finished) and to have some extra in case I need it. IMO, it is worthwhile because I KNOW this is the correct stuff and the price premium is only about $1-2.

Tell him I sent you.

Thanks.

Scott

PS. I have no financial interest in GlassCages.com and I am not receiving any type of compensation for this. I DID buy a 115g tank from them about three weeks ago.


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## Fuzzytbay

A lot of questions in this post, Yet they all seem to revolve around a common thread. What type of silicon to use in a aquarium. Obviously, anyone that is list for aquriums will work. They are expensive compared to other ones though. Stay away from kitchen/bath, they have a fungisided to kill molds, and mildew. I use the least expensive 100% clear silcon I can find. This must cure for at least 48, before having water put in the tank, I also rinse the joints first, with water, then drain, and let dry over night. I have never had a lost fish from this method. If you are building the tank, and not just repairing a leaky one, it is more in how the joint is filled with the silcon then with anything else.


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## stan buckalew

Ever tried gluing rocks together with silicon? I have. It sucked. Not to be confused with stuck, which it didn't.

Alas, there is another choice.

There is a foam product similar to that used to fill/insulate cavities in walls etc that you can find in the water garden section of most builder supply stores like Lowe's or Home Depot. It is primarily designed for pond water fall construction, comes in black, and is listed as fish safe. Costs about $14 a can, American.

I've tested it and it holds well.[/i]


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## creepingdeath086

as long as its 100% silicone, it is fish safe, from what i hear...please correct me if i am wrong


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## stan buckalew

The brand that is definitely 100% silicon is called Silicon I and is made by G.E. (?) and is currently available at my local Wal-Mart.

The issue withsilicon is not to buy any that say "mold/mildew resistant" as these have an inhibitor in them made from slow release arsenic! At least, that's what I've been told.

I would assume any 100% silicon is safe, with the above exception.


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## Smokey

Dow Corning - "732"
Rtv Sealant
100% silicone Rubber
Acetic acid is released durning application and curing.
Commerical and aquariums

GE Silicone
Constructiion
1200 Series Sealant
Acetic acid is released durning application and curing
Used by All-Glass and other manf.
Manf. and sold for contracters use only.
Reason - may cause reproductive systems effects and Liver enlargement.

Smokey


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## mars23

from GE about GE I:

DISCLAIMER: THE MATERIALS AND PRODUCTS OF THE BUSINESSES MAKING UP THE GE PLASTICS UNIT OF GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPANY, ITS SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES (GEP), ARE SOLD SUBJECT TO GEPS STANDARD CONDITIONS OF SALE, WHICH ARE INCLUDED IN THE APPLICABLE DISTRIBUTOR OR OTHER SALES AGREEMENT, PRINTED ON THE BACK OF ORDER ACKNOWLEDGMENTS AND INVOICES, AND AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST. ALTHOUGH ANY INFORMATION, RECOMMENDATIONS, OR ADVICE CONTAINED HEREIN IS GIVEN IN GOOD FAITH, GEP MAKES NO WARRANTY OR GUARANTEE, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, (I) THAT THE RESULTS DESCRIBED HEREIN WILL BE OBTAINED UNDER END-USE CONDITIONS, OR (II) AS TO THE EFFECTIVENESS OR SAFETY OF ANY DESIGN INCORPORATING GEP MATERIALS, PRODUCTS, RECOMMENDATIONS OR ADVICE. EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN GEPS STANDARD CONDITIONS OF SALE, GEP AND ITS REPRESENTATIVES SHALL IN NO EVENT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY LOSS RESULTING FROM ANY USE OF ITS MATERIALS OR PRODUCTS DESCRIBED HEREIN. Each user bears full responsibility for making its own determination as to the suitability of GEPs materials, products, recommendations, or advice for its own particular use. Each user must identify and perform all tests and analyses necessary to assure that its finished parts incorporating GEP materials or products will be safe and suitable for use under end-use conditions. Nothing in this or any other document, nor any oral recommendation or advice, shall be deemed to alter, vary, supersede

We don't recommend any of our products for underwater submersion, but some aquarium manufacturers do choose to use our products on glass to glass aquariums. The products they use most often are RTV108 or IS808. These are industrial grade products. Our consumer grade (this means they would be found at Home Depot or a local hardware store) offset to these industrial grade products is GE012A (Window and Door Silicone I).


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## creepingdeath086

not to harrass you mars23, but do you work for GE, just out of curiosity?


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## mars23

not at all...I work in a hospital...and never worked for them. Just something they sent me long time ago and figured i'd post it. GE II has better all round (plastics, rock...etc.) adhesive properties than GE I. Although GE I and II rate glass binding at 7, GE I holds glass better (and this is not GE telling me this, I discovered this myself along with many others. Both can be used, you just need to get the windows and doors (blue tube) and not bath and kitchen (red tube, has mildew prevention, fungicides..etc.). The one difference between GE I and II besides binding properties is the way they cure. GE I cures via acetic acid and GE II via ammonia. I just figeured I'd post this stuff to clear the confusion I thought everyone had known. The disclaimer about not for aquariums is, from what i had known to be circulating (not sure of the truthfulness about it though) is that GE was sued when a big aquarium fell apart and lots of water damage...etc. to this persons house. Now the questions remains whether this person applied the silcone properly and allowed it to cure properly before water was added. I know i leave it for at least a week. From what i've heard (again not sure of its validity) is that AGA uses GE I and the disclaimer previosly mentioned seems to point that without naming AGA. Take all this for whats its worth...just additional information. I've always used GE I without problems and many advanced reefers use it to. Hope this clears it up.


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## ArmeyGal

What about the GE Silicone II 100 percent clear window and door formula is that safe for aquariums??


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## mars23

as i mentioned above, both can be used, as long as it is windows and door.


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## TexasJason

thanks for putting all these threads together, very helpful information.


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## Mattf

Technically, the "100% sillicon" is misleading. They are not "100% sillicone" if arsenic is added to prevent mildew and fungus. However, it is my personal belief that the amounts of arsenic would be very insignificant. There is arsenic in normal tap water, just in very small amounts. However, I still wouldn't use it myself.

Does anyone know if the tube of GE I sillicon claims to be food safe?

I think the best would be something food safe and aquarium safe... I don't know about that DAP product...


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## jeff7274

DAP 100 % silicone has the same MSDS sheet as their aquarium sealant, its on their web site (DAP.com) The big tube does state its food safe, and on the front it says water proof. On the back it says not for continous underwater use, although MSDS wise its the same as the aquarium tube. Im using it. Its a blue tube.


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## j0r

Well I went today and bought GE Silicone *II - Window & Door*. Nowhere on the bottle does it say that it's mildew/fungus resistant. I was considering going out tomorrow and getting Silicone I since it seems to be the most recommended, however after readings mars23's post i think I'm gonna just stick with the II. I think the only difference is that II is supposed to be stronger than 1, and they release different gases as they cure. I have to go back to Home Depot tomorrow anyway because I forgot something...so I'm still comtemplating whether or not to go through with using II.


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## mars23

GEI actually sticks to glass better than II.


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## ieatdrt

GE Silicone I is the same exact product, dispensed by the same machines that is used by professional aquarium manufacturers and sold to your LFS. GE can no longer say their GE I is for aquariums because they repackage the product and sell it to your LFS and charge an arm and a leg for it. GE Silicone II, I'm almost positive it has agents in it to prevent mildew and those agents are lethal to fish. DO NOT use Bath&Tub sealant it is NOT aquarium safe because of fungicides and anti-mildew agents. Silicone I is not only aquarium safe but it's the same exact product used by aquarium manufacturing companies. You have to love that legal BS trying to make you pay more for the same product in a different color tube.... :?


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## FeatherfinFan

So I guess, to summarize~use GE Silicone I Window & Door in the blue tube as a first choice~GE Silicone II as a slightly less desireable option.


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## tanganyikajoe

Not to good then, I just got finished siliconing a 100g tank with Ge Silicone II Kitchen and bath. The guy working at home depot told me it was the same thing as the small tube of DAP aquarium silicone I was holding( I was just looking for something I could put in a caulking gun.) According to this disscussion, I should not have used this. This is a 100g tank that ties in with 2 other tanks.

What can I do? Do I scrape the silicone out after it cures?
HELP!!


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## FeatherfinFan

I would imagine scraping all the exposed silicone away and recoating w/ the Window & Door version of I or II would be fine as the new silicone should keep any harmful agents from the "bad" silicone to leach through.
Good Luck


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## PlaGrl 26

I design 3~D backgrounds and started out with All Glass Silicone. I ran out and called All Glass. The customer Service Rep told me it was safe to use any CLEAR silicone. Had to be clear. So I have had great luck with it. It is also about $5.00 a tube cheaper than All Glass.


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## Exister

Holy ****, my GE Silicone I is taking forever to cure. It's been a week and I can still get a whiff of the acetic acid! :x

Is there any way to speed up the curing process? Blowing a fan on it maybe?


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## FeatherfinFan

Hmmm, should only take 48 hours unless you used a very thick amount in certain areas :-?


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## Exister

PlaGrl 26 said:


> I design 3~D backgrounds and started out with All Glass Silicone. I ran out and called All Glass. The customer Service Rep told me it was safe to use any CLEAR silicone. Had to be clear. So I have had great luck with it. It is also about $5.00 a tube cheaper than All Glass.


I wasn't paying attention when I bought one of my silicone (GE I Window & Door) tubes and bought WHITE by mistake. I ended up getting some on one of my concrete background pieces (when I was gluing some paint strainer sheet over the hole for the "equipment chamber" area of the background to keep the fish out of that chamber).

Will this be a problem, or am I going to have to remove all the white silicone (now cured unfortunately) that got on the concrete? That will be a huge pain, so I'm hoping not to have to do that. :-?


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## Rivermud

From what I know the coloring has no effect on whether or not it is safe for aquarium use. Ever see a tank with black silicon???

You should be just fine. The only true thing to look out for is fungicides and mildewicides. thats the reason we state that the Door and Glass silicon is the best to use as it does not contain them.


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## Blackadder

Thought I'd just add my experiences with silicone. 
I was VERY unluckly when buying tanks for my fish house. The first batch of tanks (20 or so) were purchased from a very respected local manufacturer, my step-father also purchased a large tank too. He was first to set up and stock his tank..... all fish died within 24 hours of putting in the tank. The usual tests/self doubt/fish and water supplier blame etc followed, I then loaned him a batch of my juv angelfish...these too were dead in 24 hrs. After eliminating all decor and usuing aged water from one of my mature tanks and finding the problem was still there it was evident the tank was the problem. We contacted the supplier (and checked my new tanks) to find that he had problems with much of his new stock. His sealent supplier had sent him a batch of sealer that had had fungicide added, it was clear and behaved like 'aquarium grade' so couldn't be detected until used. Needless to say we were compensated. 12 months after this I went to another supplier to buy the second half of my tanks only for the same thing to happen !!!! I knew the syptoms the fish showed was poisoning, I contacted the manufacturer straight away but he didn't believe me until the questions and complaints started to pour in. It almost finished him, needless to say he appologised and my tanks replaced.
This was 15 years ago, regulations may be tougher now, and chemicals handled more responsibly, but I am very cautious when using any type of sealer. White almost always contains anti mould/fungus chems which are VERY toxic. I have used a black sealer but bought it from an aquarium manufacturer (I have a bit more faith now :roll: ). I would avoid any bathroom sealer.
The symptoms fish show are:- Staying to the sided of the tank, they never venture into the middle ; heavy breathing ; 'glazed' expression ; listlessness ; death within 24/36 hours.


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## Capt.Ken

Yet another question about silicone .... is it necessary to flush out the tank and do a few water changes after it is cured?


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## FeatherfinFan

> Yet another question about silicone .... is it necessary to flush out the tank and do a few water changes after it is cured?


Not necessary but I always do a "test-fill" for leaks and this will also rinse out any debris in the tank. Once silicone is cured it's good-to-go (as long as it's the correct type).


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## themaddhatter

I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but I have a lot of this stuff lying around so I figured if it works it'll save some cash.

It releases acetic acid when curing, so I wasn't sure if this was the industrial version of GE silicone 1.

Also, how would the adhesion to acrylic be? I've noticed some liquid nails products state good adhesion to acrylics but are not for submerged use. If these products are left to completely cure would they be ok?


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## zookeeper

just thought I'd add a little something here.
Mastercraft window and door silicone says right on the tube in bold letters
" IDEAL FOR USE IN AQUARIUMS "then in brackets(allow 2-5 days before filling aquarium)
the tube I have is white silicone but it about a year old so I dont know if it still says it on the new tubes. 
BTW Mastercraft is a Canadain Tire product.
hope this helps

Terry


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## scottbmunro

After reading most of this thread, I went to Rona (just like Home Depot) and was going to get Clear GE Silicone 1 for Window and Door in order to re-caulk my 45 gal. I was determined that this stuff was the right stuff because so many of you recommended it. To my disappointment when the person that works there finally found it he told me: "oh this stuff is no good for aquariums". Sure enough right there on the label it said, "Not suitable for Aquariums". "Do not use below the water line". Am I missing something? Has GE just gone crazy with their labelling in order to avoid any unhappy customers? Should I really worry about this warning?


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## Michael_S.

What is the black silicone that I am seeing in the oceanic aquariums? I have been to my lfos and they are using a black sealant. I think some of the topfin ones use it as well.


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## FeatherfinFan

Scott, the GE Silicone I Window & Door is just fine for aquariums, I've used it without any trouble on various applications.
Michael, the black sealant is just black-colored 100% silicone, it's also available in GE Silicone I.


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## New2cichlids24

Hi guys saw the thread could not resist, I may be learning about cichlids, but I know a lot about silicone. Yes! ge silicone I is safe for aquariums and dap 100% silicone is safe as well. The reason ge silicone II is not save for aquarium is because it has antibacterial compounds added to it to prevent bacteria growth.

as for other brands of silicone the answer is easy if you know what to look for on the label. Let me back up and first state there are only to companies in the U.S. that are allowed under law to produce silicone, one company is GE the other is Dow Corning so if it is 100% silicone it came from one of these companies.

okay now for the answer somewhere on the label there will be a listing for VOC contents contained in the silicone if the VOC content is between 32-36 it is safe to use if it is above 36 do not use it if it is below 32 it is not 100% silicone again do not use it.

By the way VOC stands for volatile Organic compounds it has to be listed on the label by law and if you cannot find it ask a employe at the store of purchase, under law the employe, if he is certified to work in that area of the store, he is required by law to have access to that info.


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## New2cichlids24

Read through your threads and see your confused on the amount arsenic if the VOC contant is 32 their is no arsenic anything higher has small amounts of arsenic added GE I, I believe is about 35 so it is safe for fish tanks. GE II is over 50 do not use it. Sorry do not have labels infront of me so those numbers are approximants so don't hold me to those numbers please! One last thing if it is under 32 than the silicone has been mixed with acrylic and will not hold up under water.

As far as GE says that silicone I is not rated for under water use they are just trying to sell you there comercial grades for a higer price. It is the same thing in a different tube, for more money. Same is true for kitchen and bath and interior exterior silicone I. Kitchen and bath costs more than interior exterior but they are the same silicone. These companies have good marketing strategies.


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## themaddhatter

New2cichlids24 said:


> Read through your threads and see your confused on the amount arsenic if the VOC contant is 32 their is no arsenic anything higher has small amounts of arsenic added GE I, I believe is about 35 so it is safe for fish tanks. GE II is over 50 do not use it. Sorry do not have labels infront of me so those numbers are approximants so don't hold me to those numbers please! One last thing if it is under 32 than the silicone has been mixed with acrylic and will not hold up under water.
> 
> As far as GE says that silicone I is not rated for under water use they are just trying to sell you there comercial grades for a higer price. It is the same thing in a different tube, for more money. Same is true for kitchen and bath and interior exterior silicone I. Kitchen and bath costs more than interior exterior but they are the same silicone. These companies have good marketing strategies.


Hi,

I was trying to find the VOC info for GE's Contractors SCS1000 silicone.. There's nothing on the tube and I can't seem to find it on the web either? Is this simply Silicone 1 in a different bottle?


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## mars23

1000's have been using ge silicone 1 for years without problems. how much more do we need do dwell on before we start asking for the caramel secret....
(isn't there enough proof to lay this to rest)


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## zookeeper

> how much more do we need do dwell on before we start asking for the caramel secret....


so can ANYONE tell me the caramel secret, I was wanting to make my own choclate bar and I'm pretty sure I could make a million if I could figure it out :lol:

O.K. one more silicone for the record

HOME HARDWARE WEATHERSEAL
SEAL, SILICONE 
Model: WS CLR 300ML 
HH Item Number: 2031-205 
Interior/Exterior Silicone Sealant 
- Excellent adhesion to glass, metal, plastic and 
tile surfaces 
- Superior durability and flexibility 
- Will not degrade in sunlight 
- Withstands temperatures between -54 degree 
C to 204 degree C 
- Tooling time is 3-5 minutes, full cure in 24 
hours 
- Safe to use on aquariums 
- 35+ year durability

Terry


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## llamaguy

I'm quite confused, "GE silicone II Windows and Doors", is it safe? The only ingrediant listed is a fancy silicone name. The VOC is listed as "below 50."

I searched for it on google, GE said that it wasn't safe because:


> Which product can I use in my aquarium?
> 
> GE does not recommend the use of our CONSUMER products on aquariums. The Silicone II product line releases ammonia as the by-product of cure. The ammonia can change the pH of the water in the aquarium having a negative impact on the marine life.


If it releases the ammonia during the cure, after that, shouldn't it be safe??


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## FeatherfinFan

> If it releases the ammonia during the cure, after that, shouldn't it be safe??


Yes  I'd still recommend GE I over GE II, it seems to have a slightly better adhesion.


> 1000's have been using ge silicone 1 for years without problems. how much more do we need do dwell on before we start asking for the caramel secret....
> (isn't there enough proof to lay this to rest)


Well put Mars23, just let it go...................


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## the_wizzard_one

for years i haveused wally worlds silicone mainstays.i have 30 tanks and none leak.100 o/o pure silicone no anti bac in it is the right stuff just rember to let the silicone release all fumes before adding water .


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## adc-aquatics

mars23 said:


> GEI actually sticks to glass better than II.


Do you have any links that back up your claim? You have made me curious. I thought GE II was stronger than GE I on glass as well.


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## jwmustang

Did you ever have a problem with the white silicone? I did the same thing.
*Exister*


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## jorich

So, I read the articles on DIY backgrounds, proceeded to build my own, got it all siliconed into the tank and it's currently in the pH leeching process....then I found this thread.

I used the GE silicone I kicthen and bath when building/applying my background. Anyone out there happen to use this one too and not kill all their fish? I'm bummed because my background looks great, but now I'm thinking I've created a deathtrap.


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## jwmustang

I have had fish in the tank for 2 weeks, no one died. So the white silicone did not matter.


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## xuivo

Just spoke today with the salesman from GE. I was in a Rona, looking to solve that **** silicone problem and when I asked a question to the clerk, he went get the distributor who was there 

GE Silicon 1 was graded aquarium safe a while ago. The recipe did not change, but they did remove the "aquarium safe" label because they got sued after people silicon there aquarium but did not wait for the silicon to cure. So to avoid any risk, they just removed the mention.

The guy didn't know about GE selling to other company, but he did confirm me that Silicon 1, blue bottle is 100% safe for aquarium, just respect the curing time!


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## PlecoLover

i wa sin walmart 2 day looking at the G.E I silicone adn it said it had soemthing in it i cant recall teh name that prevents mold and mildew


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## Number6

PlecoLover said:


> i wa sin walmart 2 day looking at the G.E I silicone adn it said it had soemthing in it i cant recall teh name that prevents mold and mildew


 there is a white silicone I that has anti-mildew additives and has a red label.

This shouldn't be used.

jorich, hopefully this didn't end up being a problem in your case.


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## PlecoLover

Weird the lable wanst red it was gray but wlamart has a ****ty selection on most things imma have 2 go to homedepot i was 2 tired and car was too packed with groceries to go shopping in homedepot


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## apistomaster

I've been building silicone/glass tanks for personal use for 40 years starting with Dow later with GE Type 1. Never had toxicity problems. I always avoided the Type II GE because of mildewcide, or at least the possibility. You need'nt worry with Type I. My largest tank was 90 gallons. The price of glass has made home built tanks less attractive to me these days.
Larry Waybright


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## redzebra24

on my ge 1 window and door bottle it says it is not for surfaces that will exceed 400 degrees and food contact surfaces. and it also says less than 35% voc can i use it? will i get harmed? should i stay away from it as it drys?


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## apistomaster

You want to use general purpose GE Type I sealant. The disclaimer regarding foods is purely for liability purposes and does'nt interfere with use in aquariums. If you really are'nt sure what to use your LFS can get you tubes of AllGlass brand Silicone sealant, the same they build their tanks out of and the odds are it's rebranded GE Type I general purpose sealant.
A normal well ventilated room is sufficient. The sealant releases acetic acid, the same as vinegar, and will not harm you, pungent smelling that it is. The smell will rapidly dissapate.
Larry


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## Jambon

Just to keep the mystery of this subject alive, I thought I'd report what I saw when I went in to my local Lowes to pick up some GE Silicone I. It appears that the marketing division at GE has come up with a new graphic they are printing on each tube of silicone called the "Performance Chart." It's basically a bar that lists their products starting with their acrylic latexes through their siliconized acrylics up to their silicones. Naturally their is no "Lowest," but sitting there at "Highest" performance is GE Silicone _II_. Now many convincing posters here had indicated that GE Silicone I was thought to be the best available silicone for use on glass, so I was a bit confused and decided to read further. As previously posted both I and II showed a rating of "7" for use on glass, but imagine my surprise when I saw that GE Silicone II with Bio-Guard (their branded mildewcide) was rated at "10" for use on glass. Apparently, the inclusion of the mildewcide increased adhesion by nearly 50%! What will science come up with next? :wink:


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## riddiculous

I know it has been discussed in detail but wanted to add this info when I contacted GE Silicone.
This is per emails w/ David Arnold w/ GE Advanced Materials Silicone
ME:
I need to know EXACTLY which GE Silicone to use for an Aquarium,
especially a large one. It needs to be clear and it will not poison the
fish.

Reply:
How large of an aquarium (in gallons) are you planning on building? We
have a few materials we can suggest, but they're viable only up through
20,000 gallons.

ME:
David,

Thanks for the quick reply.
Hehhe...ah, your big is considered industrous where my conception of big is somewhat at a smaller scale. No, at a home scale size. I was thinking around 125 gallons.

Reply:
In that case, I donâ€™t think weâ€™ll have too many problems! We have two materials that we suggest for use with aquariums. RTV108 and RTV118 are basically the same material (translucent room temperature cure sealants with NSF, USDA, and FDA certification), and will both work for your application. RTV108 is a paste-like consistency, while RTV118 is a bit more flowable (with a viscosity similar to that of ketchup). In order for the materials to be safe for fish, you must let them cure for 7 full days and then thoroughly wash with potable water and soap. If there is anything else I can do you help, please feel free to reply to this email.

ME:
Again, thanks for the quick reply. 1 more question please.
RTV108 or even RTV118 is not something readibly sold at Wal-Mart or even Home Depot.
Will GE Silicone I (for windows and doors) be just as applicable?

Reply:
Silicone I & II are GE Sealants & Adhesives products, which is a sister division of ours. As this is the case, I really donâ€™t know a whole lot about their products. I know they have a lot of comparable products, and I know that the Silicone I series uses the same cure method as the RTV100 series. Unfortunately, I donâ€™t know exactly which of their products would be the direct offset for either RTV108 or RTV118 (my guess is the Silicone I Kitchen & Bath, but Iâ€™m not sure which one in that series). Your best bet would be either their website (http://www.gesealants.com) or their customer service line (1-800-255-8886 option 1) for your answer.

Of course I called and they recommended that GE Silicone I is NOT recommended. 
BUT I will believe per the experiences that many of you have that you did not have a problem using it.


----------



## apistomaster

As I mentioned in my previous post, this is a liability issue and not a materials performance issue. Dow Corning Chemical were the original manufacturers of aquarium safe silicone sealants but that division was spun off and GE picked it up. AllGlass Aquarium markets silcone adhesive/sealant. The same one they use to build thousands of aquariums that many of us have in use in our homes. If you just don't know what to trust ask your LFS to order AllGlass Silicone for you as is widely available. The main differences between GE I and All Glass are the packaging and price.


----------



## DJRansome

Unfortunately, GE has added "BioSeal" to the Silicone I and Silicone II. I used Silicone II last year on a tank and it's fine. Last week I picked up a tube of Silicone II and installed an expensive in-tank background in my new 125G. Within 2 days, all fish sicken and die! Temp 78, pH 7.8, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0. I'm tearing it down, but I can't find a silicone without mold and mildew resistance...HELP!


----------



## apistomaster

I have already posted that your favorite fish shops can get you ALL GLASS AQUARIUM brand of silicone that they build their tanks with. That is as safe as we aquarists can easily get. I have not had trouble in some new new tanks I built out of GE I. There is a chance that voids behind the in tank back ground are the actual source of problems. Dead water spaces can be breeding grounds for sulphur reducing anaerobic bacteria producing hydrogen sulfide which is an extremely toxic substance to all oxygen breathing organisms in minute quantities like a few ppm. It is difficult to detect without expensive analytical devices. Regardless, just switch brands and put your mind to rest. It is unfortunate that this has happened.


----------



## DJRansome

The background is designed to have the heaters and filters behind it, there are holes through and water circulates behind. As mentioned, I have a smaller tank in operation since January with the same background and the same set-up...the only difference is the GE Silicone II I used did not have BioSeal. On occasion, I have had a fish jump over the background and live back there several days before he was detected and rescued.

No one has an alternative to the Perfecto adhesive (clear only)? I was hoping there was a black alternative.


----------



## Ahumar

I could not find just plain GE Silicon I at Home Depot, but was able to find the blue Window and Doors. Is this still okay?

Also, anyone know where to find the DAP 43112, I did not see it at Home Depot.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

I don't think there is such a thing as just plain silicone I. Yes the blue one for windows & doors is the one to use, just be sure to read the label to make sure it doesn't have mildewcide.


----------



## DJRansome

Good news, All-Glass has the aquarium-safe silicone available in black, my LFS had some in stock!


----------



## t4rx7

If one does use a silicon with the mildewcide in it, does the leaching process ever stop? Everyone keeps saying how bad it is, but I would like to know if anyone has used it with sucess, or if it has been a non-issue for any.


----------



## Texasfishenthusiast

Well I just got back from Home Depot and Lowes. I saw the GE I at both places. (blue label, and said kitchen and bath, or something real similar) It said mildew resistant on the label. Also on the back in all the fine print, it said not for use on food surfaces. Kinda makes me wonder.

So do they make more than one kind of GE I :!:


----------



## spqrzilla

At a local Hobby Lobby I found a tube of "Decorative Silicone" that is "odor free". It does not appear to have any mildewcide in it. I haven't been able to figure out who makes it.

I picked up a tube to see how well it works.


----------



## mdw442

apistomaster said:


> I've been building silicone/glass tanks for personal use for 40 years starting with Dow later with GE Type 1. Never had toxicity problems. I always avoided the Type II GE because of mildewcide, or at least the possibility. You need'nt worry with Type I. My largest tank was 90 gallons. The price of glass has made home built tanks less attractive to me these days.
> Larry Waybright


We ought to start a new topic, because I have to agree. Especially way up here where I live. Its time to find an alternative to glass because prices have tripled in the last 2 years.


----------



## ashilli48

Will the bond fail if submerged before 100% curing? I have GE II in the blue tube and EVERYTHING I have glued with it has failed at some point. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## Dave

ashilli48 said:


> Will the bond fail if submerged before 100% curing?


 Yes it can.


----------



## ashilli48

So what is the recommended time before submersion?


----------



## PChap

So GE 1 now says that it is mildew and mold resistant. Anyone still using it? I'm very apprehensive about putting it in my tanks now. What do you guys think?


----------



## BillD

Texasfishenthusiast said:


> Well I just got back from Home Depot and Lowes. I saw the GE I at both places. (blue label, and said kitchen and bath, or something real similar) It said mildew resistant on the label. Also on the back in all the fine print, it said not for use on food surfaces. Kinda makes me wonder.
> 
> So do they make more than one kind of GE I :!:


Yes, Silicone I for windows and doors. If it says "tub and tile" or "kitchen and bath", it probably has mildewcide.


----------



## BillD

Texasfishenthusiast said:


> Well I just got back from Home Depot and Lowes. I saw the GE I at both places. (blue label, and said kitchen and bath, or something real similar) It said mildew resistant on the label. Also on the back in all the fine print, it said not for use on food surfaces. Kinda makes me wonder.
> 
> So do they make more than one kind of GE I :!:


Yes, Silicone I for windows and doors. If it says "tub and tile" or "kitchen and bath", it probably has mildewcide.


----------



## PChap

BillD said:


> Texasfishenthusiast said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I just got back from Home Depot and Lowes. I saw the GE I at both places. (blue label, and said kitchen and bath, or something real similar) It said mildew resistant on the label. Also on the back in all the fine print, it said not for use on food surfaces. Kinda makes me wonder.
> 
> So do they make more than one kind of GE I :!:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Silicone I for windows and doors. If it says "tub and tile" or "kitchen and bath", it probably has mildewcide.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I'm staring at a tube of GE 1 for windows and doors, and it says mold and mildew resistant. Do you guys think it's ok? I'm thinking no. Guess I'm just gonna order from all glass.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

I don't think so. I still use GE1 for W & D and haven't noticed it saying that. Care to take a pic, or describe the location of this statement???


----------



## PChap

imusuallyuseless said:


> I don't think so. I still use GE1 for W & D and haven't noticed it saying that. Care to take a pic, or describe the location of this statement???


Bah, I'm glad you said something, I picked up the K and B. I've bought the wrong freakin thing twice this week.

Has anyone found GE 1 in black?


----------



## jim008

Hi,

This is my first post here but since this is such a hot topic, I gotta tell you what happened for me.
I got the instructions from this site on how to do the background. So I went out and bought the Silicone 1 at Walmart. There was one tube of window and door and a bunch of kitchen and bath, so I bought the kitchen and bath. I decided to do my smallest tank, 55 gallon. Man! It looks awesome. So I did all the curing specs from the DIY article and put the fish in. On the 3rd day, they were all very lethargic, tails closed, dorsal fins not very active, yet eating well. I decided to do a 50% water change and almost instantly they came around. Didn't like that. So, on the 2nd day after the water change, I see one of my Venustus swimming at a 45 degree angle, nose down, tail closed and not moving for swimming. I pulled all the fish out and THEN I found this thread and nearly cried. All that work, and it looks so great, and I have to rip it all out because I didn't know about the mildewcide. I must say that I'm kinda ticked that the DIY article didn't warn about this but live and learn right. 
So anyway, I bought a 10 gallon, did it up with the window and door silicone. No problems at all. Now I will do my other 7 tanks up, finish building my 190 gallon acrylic tank and do that one up and not make the same mistake.
So I hope this clears things for those of you still questioning the potential for problems. Yes, it does leach into the water...ALOT. Now I gotta figure out how to get the tank of death torn down without breaking the glass! LOL
Jim


----------



## BillD

For the two post above, I don't believe Silicone I comes in black anymore. There is a series 1200 GE industrial silicone that comes in black, and is stronger than Silicone I. 
Secondly, you don't use silicone on acrylic tanks to seal them. They are sealed by the welding process of building them. Silicone does not stick to acrylic the way it does to glass.


----------



## jim008

Thanks for the concern about silicone on acrylic but I didn't say I was going to put the tank together with it...just the background. I've already got most of it put together (the tank) using Weld-on 40. I was going to use the 4 but they changed the formula and it makes seams white, so I thought of 3 but the working time is way too minimal. 40 is a different type of bonding agent but after 24 hours has a stronger bond than 3 or 4 could ever attain and after a week, has more than double the strength. Over 4300 pounds per sq. inch to break it. I spoke to the folks at weld-on over the phone and this is their stats and recomendations. 
So, the only thing I was going to use the silicone for on the acrylic is to stick it together. 
Thanks again for watching out for potential disasters!

Jim


----------



## bricem3

Yeah so it looks like the GE Silicone 2 I just used to make a fantastic rock background has the BioSeal and will effectibely kill all my fish if I put the background in this weekend. This sucks - I worked very hard on this...


----------



## jim008

Hi BriceM3,

I had the same problem but I decided to not destroy all my hard work entirely. I broke the top off of the concrete and styrofoam, just enough to get a sharp scraper in behind. Then I very slowly and carefully worked at it until I had it freed from the glass. Took about 3 hours but I saved the majority of the background. I then cleaned the silicon off the glass (comes off REAL easy), got it off the styrofoam and put it in with the right silicon, rebuilt the top that I broke off and she's workin great. 
It takes alot of time due to how carefull you have to be not to break the glass or run that scraper down the tank joints. The choice is yours, but it worked for me. Oh yeah, expect some cut up knuckles too....that concrete is rather unforgiving if you slip!
Good Luck,
Jim


----------



## Fishyfan

So how long should the Silicone I window and door cure before adding water?


----------



## imusuallyuseless

I'd wait at least two days, longer if you've put it on particularly thick.


----------



## xuivo

Well, I've read through the thread and still have a question...

I've just bought GE Silicone II for windows / door, but no where on the tube it says milddew moisture resistant or Bioseal .... I've compared it with the bathroom one and this one had mention about a moisture resistance..

So I'm I safe with the GE Silicone II? I'm in Canada, so maybe they did not change the formula over here. Also, Is the Silicone I really better than the II?

I'm awaiting your answer before putting my fish to risk!

Thx


----------



## Phantasmal

ok, here goes...i just bought 2 tubes of the GE Silicone I from the De-pot in Terrel, Tx. (I live down the street from there) They had three cases of the clear silicone for Windows & Doors. (White and Blue tube) After reading the entire tube twice, I have not found anything that refers to it being Mildew Resistant or containing any mildewcides or such. My only worry is down at the bottom of the "Instructions For Use" it says, "*NOT FOR*: Surfaces that will exceed 400*F(205*C), conditions where FDA compliance is necessary, *or AQUARIUMS*."

Is this still ok to use even though it states not to use it for tanks?? I'd post a pic but i can't get the the text to come out clearly.


----------



## malawi_rainbow

> I am putting rock onto pvc for caves in my aquarium.


hate to change the subject (just for a sec) but thats a great idea i nvr thought of that! are you planning on leaving the inside of the pipe white?


----------



## BillD

Phantasmal said:


> ok, here goes...i just bought 2 tubes of the GE Silicone I from the De-pot in Terrel, Tx. (I live down the street from there) They had three cases of the clear silicone for Windows & Doors. (White and Blue tube) After reading the entire tube twice, I have not found anything that refers to it being Mildew Resistant or containing any mildewcides or such. My only worry is down at the bottom of the "Instructions For Use" it says, "*NOT FOR*: Surfaces that will exceed 400*F(205*C), conditions where FDA compliance is necessary, *or AQUARIUMS*."
> 
> Is this still ok to use even though it states not to use it for tanks?? I'd post a pic but i can't get the the text to come out clearly.


It has said that on the tube for quite some time, but lots of people have used it safely. There is a story circulating that GE manufactures the AGA silicone, so no longer recommend it for aquariums. The GE Silicone I for windows and doors does not have mildewcide. I jave been using Mastercraft, the house brand for Canadian Tire. The tube is remarkably similar to the GE I tube, but says ideal for aquariums. It seems Mastercraft is being discontinued, as they now carry GE I.


----------



## -Nemo-

Michelle said:


> And if you are in Canada just go to Canadian Tire, there in house brand of silicone says right on it "aquarium safe" 8)


excellent. ty :thumb:


----------



## FTLOSM

stan buckalew said:


> Ever tried gluing rocks together with silicon? I have. It sucked. Not to be confused with stuck, which it didn't.
> 
> Alas, there is another choice.
> 
> There is a foam product similar to that used to fill/insulate cavities in walls etc that you can find in the water garden section of most builder supply stores like Lowe's or Home Depot. It is primarily designed for pond water fall construction, comes in black, and is listed as fish safe. Costs about $14 a can, American.
> 
> I've tested it and it holds well.[/i]


I want to get a big batch of slate rock and secure it all together into a cave mountain, has anyone identified what this product is in terms of name or maker?

Will be hitting home depot tomorrow hoping to find something like it that will be black or clear as first color choices, safe for aquarium use but that will hold slate rock together hopefully.


----------



## mik3yy

I was hoping to repair a small crack in my Aquaclear 70 case. Will this GE I / Dap silcone work to seal up the crack? It is pretty small.


----------



## porksnorkel

coinkid285 said:


> dont get that stuff on you because it stays for about a week(it has to wear off, nothing gets it off)


a bar of lava soap and a scrub brush will do the trick. or any abrasive mechanic type soap.


----------



## tunerX

I want to do white for my seams and glass installationt, so I looked at the MSDS for Clear and white Silicone. I don't really care about the black.

GE Silicone I Window & Door (Blue Label) white color. It is the same as GE Silicone 1 clear but uses Titanium dioxide to give it the white color.

Link to GE Silicone MSDS site. I cannot link to the PDF directly so you have to do a search for GE112A 12C
http://www.gesilicones.com/NASApp/gesilecomm/SQuickMsds

Link to FDA certification for Titanium Dioxide.
Look under "Table 1. Color Additives Permitted For Direct Addition To Human Food In The United States"
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/colorfac.html


----------



## SteelFist

I don't understand. Why is everyone having such a hard time with this?? Just buy Aquarium Safe silicone and call it a day. If you can't find it at your LFS, then here it is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-3oz-All-Glas...oryZ3212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## tunerX

SteelFist said:


> I don't understand. Why is everyone having such a hard time with this?? Just buy Aquarium Safe silicone and call it a day. If you can't find it at your LFS, then here it is:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/10-3oz-All-Glas...oryZ3212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I used 31 tubes for my DIY tank. Your link is 15 dollars a tube after shipping and the person only had one. Ge Silicone I has been proven to work over the last decade or so.


----------



## dwschacht

I use DAP brand silicon (says safe for food contact when curred on the label) fish have been fine in the tank for 6 months plus. Costs $1.50 per tube I think. I have used aproximately 12 tubes resealing various tanks. My thought was, If it is safe for me to eat on, if must be safe for my fish.

I think this whole "must be GE silicone 1" is a lot of bull. Lots of different brands make the same kind of silicon. My recomendation is reseal a 10, add some gold fish or feeder fish, if they die, reseal it again until you find a silicon that doesn't kill fish.


----------



## ashilli48

I trust everyone that the Silicone I works for them. My issue, which has since been corrected, was allowing it to cure long enough. Typical man, couldn't wait!


----------



## stslimited84

Is black aquarium safe silicone readily available that isnt outrageously priced? I really enjoy the look of the black silicone that Perfecto uses in their tanks.

Also, how much silicone would you need to use to reseal a 180 gallon tank? (i need an idea of how much to get)

Where can you buy this silicone, and what is a good price? Most places I see are roughly $1 per oz, which seems extremely expensive.

Thanks 8)


----------



## willie62193

I used just a bit more than 1 tube on my 130 gl, so you may want to get two.


----------



## Zane

Manus-Bond 73-A is my chioce for silicone, stronger adhesion than than the chain stores carry.
It comes in black also, saved many a Metaframe with it.
I buy it by the case, not a bad cost either for the peace of mind.
Online purchase would be the easiest as it is a commercial product.
I have had no troubles with it, no kills and no leaks in 7-9 years.
The aquatic toxology measures less than 1 on a scale of 100.

Go for 1 tube (caulking gun size) for now, you will want a week for it to cure anyway so whats another day to get a 2nd if you need it. If you are doing black do a full dismantel of the glass or the clear silicone will remain between the walls and look not so good.


----------



## Curious Jay

I don't know if anyone has noted this yet:

Look -carefully- at the GE Silicone label. Their are TWO versions of GE Silicone Door and Window one with "Bio-Seal" and one without. The bio-seal kind has a gold band around the top and a little logo about 3/4 of an inch wide that looks like this:

http://www.geadvancedmaterials.com/geam ... oseal.html

Look for the kind -without- that seal, which is a blue/black/white tube with a blue band, not a gold one. The good tube doesn't have the bio-seal logo, the ingredients list is shorter, and it looks like this:

http://www.geadvancedmaterials.com/geam ... ddoor.html

The images and info were take directly from the GE website and are valid as of March, 2008. Please take the time to read the labels carefully if you are reading this post 3 years in the future.


----------



## Emzz

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... =6156&BASE

GE1 Silicone window&door- says "this product is not recommended for below water line"..????


----------



## pete motta

:fish: Starting to put my styrofoam backround together,thank's to everyones input on GE 100% silicon. Im now confused on witch Quikrete to use?(Mason mix or Quickall) witch one is better for diy backgrounds. Thanks Pete


----------



## stslimited84

This is the correct stuff, right?

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... lpage=none


----------



## Guest

stslimited84 said:


> This is the correct stuff, right?
> 
> http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... lpage=none


Looks like the right stuff :thumb:

~Ed


----------



## BillD

Emzz said:


> http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=6156&BASE
> 
> GE1 Silicone window&door- says "this product is not recommended for below water line"..????


Since the product is sold as a caulk rather than an aquarium adhesive, the "below water line" warning has to do with that not when used to build or seal an aquarium. Silicone was not designed as an aquarium adhesive. It's use for building tanks came from someone who was using it for something else and then came up with the idea of trying it to glue glass together, and thus the all glass tank was born.


----------



## D-007

Zane said:


> Manus-Bond 73-A is my chioce for silicone, stronger adhesion than than the chain stores carry.
> It comes in black also, saved many a Metaframe with it.
> I buy it by the case, not a bad cost either for the peace of mind.
> Online purchase would be the easiest as it is a commercial product.
> I have had no troubles with it, no kills and no leaks in 7-9 years.
> The aquatic toxology measures less than 1 on a scale of 100.
> 
> Go for 1 tube (caulking gun size) for now, you will want a week for it to cure anyway so whats another day to get a 2nd if you need it. If you are doing black do a full dismantel of the glass or the clear silicone will remain between the walls and look not so good.


That's a great sealant recommendation Zane. I'm going to look into getting some.


----------



## DEREK21

I'm about to do some re-sealing on a 125.

I've purchased the GE Silicone I w/o the Bio Seal... so I'm ready to go.

My Question is this.... the silicone around the bottom looks good. But the silicone along the verticals is dry and cracking. So, can I get away with just doing the verticals? And, do I have to do it all at once if I decide to do the whole thing? Or can you pick up where you left off?


----------



## Rick_Lindsey

DEREK21 said:


> I'm about to do some re-sealing on a 125.
> 
> I've purchased the GE Silicone I w/o the Bio Seal... so I'm ready to go.
> 
> My Question is this.... the silicone around the bottom looks good. But the silicone along the verticals is dry and cracking. So, can I get away with just doing the verticals? And, do I have to do it all at once if I decide to do the whole thing? Or can you pick up where you left off?


First, the grain of salt : I've never re-sealed an aquarium.

That said, I'd do the whole thing. My understanding is that silicone doesn't stick well to old silicone, so I'd worry about potential leaks at the joints of new vs. old silicone.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


----------



## rwolff

i use Bison Siliconen Kit. It says right on it its safe for Aquaria. It's a dutch product, so im not sure if its sold in the states or canada.
Went looking for the GE ones, but found something better id say, it was cheaper too. 
Just to say what else is out there.

Now..
!!!!GE I windows and doors /safe for food/ and dont pick the one with the mildew resist. thing!!!
if you really want to use GE products. And depending on ur climate, leave silicone to cure for at least 7 days, or more untill vinegar smell is gone.
HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND?!
just stop asking what has been clearly stated over and over again.


----------



## arowanafilms

Sorry to beat a dead horse like this....but I've been searching through this forum and can't exactly figure out what the solution to my situation. So, AFTER I built my wet/dry filter out of a used 55 gallon, I realized on this forum why my fish were acting like they were HIGH. After I got them out of the big 200 gallon tank and into another tank they slowly got healthier again. And then after reading this forum, realized that I've been using Silicone II with the bio seal on the wet/dry, yes-that sux. Anyways, my question to you all is, is it possible to still salvage the 55 gallon and did I damage my 200? I can do a pretty good job at scraping off all the Silicone II from the wet/dry, but will the toxins still be in the water? Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated...


----------



## IrkedCitizen

arowanafilms said:


> Sorry to beat a dead horse like this....but I've been searching through this forum and can't exactly figure out what the solution to my situation. So, AFTER I built my wet/dry filter out of a used 55 gallon, I realized on this forum why my fish were acting like they were HIGH. After I got them out of the big 200 gallon tank and into another tank they slowly got healthier again. And then after reading this forum, realized that I've been using Silicone II with the bio seal on the wet/dry, yes-that sux. Anyways, my question to you all is, is it possible to still salvage the 55 gallon and did I damage my 200? I can do a pretty good job at scraping off all the Silicone II from the wet/dry, but will the toxins still be in the water? Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated...


That sucks. I believe you are screwed and are going to have to strip the silicone out of the 55g and are going to have to drain the 200 and clean everything which will kill your cycle if it isn't dead already.


----------



## shadowdrag0n

does anyone know if u can use silicon 1 white rubber sealant for aquarium? 
thanks,
ken


----------



## mrcichlid1968

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-1-oz-100-Silicon ... m153.l1262

Sure would be nice to get a online sales link for the Manus sillycone


----------



## Guest

I keep hearing the there is a black GE Silicone I for sale out there. I've been to Lowes and Home Depot and a small local hardware store and all they carried was the white and clear. Was the black discontinued or is it just not available near me?

~Ed


----------



## IrkedCitizen

Marduk said:


> I keep hearing the there is a black GE Silicone I for sale out there. I've been to Lowes and Home Depot and a small local hardware store and all they carried was the white and clear. Was the black discontinued or is it just not available near me?
> 
> ~Ed


The stock number for the black GE Silicone I is GE312A. You can look at the GE website for it here. If you do a google search for "GE Silicone GE312A" there are a lot of places that you can order it from online. On my search the first one on the page was Ace Hardware the link to the silicone is here. It seems you can only buy it in quantities of 12 everywhere I found it online though.

Hope that helps.

EDIT:

I found this place that allows you to purchase 2 tubes instead of 12.


----------



## D-007

Just wanted to say that was an excellent bit of information passed on and thank you for doing so.


----------



## redzebra24

I just got a tube of GE I silcone in clear last night. Window and Door. It says not for you in aquariums. So this stuff isnt safe anymore?


----------



## Guest

redzebra24 said:


> I just got a tube of GE I silcone in clear last night. Window and Door. It says not for you in aquariums. So this stuff isnt safe anymore?


People here still use it and apparently it only says that because of past lawsuits likely because of leaking issues...

I'm pretty sure it is safe. If you read the beginning of this topic and the other two topics it links to there are tons of people who say they have used it without any problems at all..


----------



## DJRansome

Just make sure it doesn't say "bioseal" which is mildew killer. I did have a bad experience using GE Silicone on #2 tank after having no problems with tank #1 a year earlier.

After tearing down tank#2 to remove the GE Silicone with bioseal (all fish died), I used All-Glass Aquarium Silicone instead (which comes in black) and all was fine.


----------



## rickyricardo

*Zane*
hi zane,

i am in the process of resealing my 55. i am going to use black and have begun the process of removing old silicone. This I understand and even though it is my first time I feel ok about doing it. I am following instructions on website step by step. Now you say I should completly dismantle the tank if I am going to use black. How much more difficult does this make the job. any step by step instructions of this around.

thanks..........rick


----------



## cichlids _killer

this's really good sticky .....now i know what i need .its time to take out the old silicon and apply the new one in for my 90gallon.....question: how long is y'all re-seal tank last??  just wondering .before i do my ..or just get a new 90gallon
thanks 
CK


----------



## IrkedCitizen

cichlids _killer said:


> this's really good sticky .....now i know what i need .its time to take out the old silicon and apply the new one in for my 90gallon.....question: how long is y'all re-seal tank last??  just wondering .before i do my ..or just get a new 90gallon
> thanks
> CK


Supposedly silicone can last for 50 years. If you do a good job resealing it should last you a long time. But things do happen and the seals can get damaged and start leaking.

I say reseal your 90 because you really won't be out any money. A 10oz tube of GE silicone I windows and doors which is enough to reseal a 90g costs less than $4. Compare that to the cost of a new 90 gallon.


----------



## cichlids _killer

IrkedCitizen said:


> cichlids _killer said:
> 
> 
> 
> this's really good sticky .....now i know what i need .its time to take out the old silicon and apply the new one in for my 90gallon.....question: how long is y'all re-seal tank last??  just wondering .before i do my ..or just get a new 90gallon
> thanks
> CK
> 
> 
> 
> Supposedly silicone can last for 50 years. If you do a good job resealing it should last you a long time. But things do happen and the seals can get damaged and start leaking.
> 
> I say reseal your 90 because you really won't be out any money. A 10oz tube of GE silicone I windows and doors which is enough to reseal a 90g costs less than $4. Compare that to the cost of a new 90 gallon.
Click to expand...

thanks you for the quick responed


----------



## IrkedCitizen

No problem.

Good luck with your reseal. Let us know if you have any troubles.

You have to remove ALL of the old silicone with a razor blade except for the silicone between the glass pieces. It must be stressed that you get all of the old silicone off. Once you have then you clean the surface where the new silicone will be with rubbing alcohol and then you apply the new silicone to all of the edges and allow it to cure for 48 hours just to be safe.

Then fill it up and see if she holds!


----------



## cichlids _killer

IrkedCitizen said:


> No problem.
> 
> Good luck with your reseal. Let us know if you have any troubles.
> 
> You have to remove ALL of the old silicone with a razor blade except for the silicone between the glass pieces. It must be stressed that you get all of the old silicone off. Once you have then you clean the surface where the new silicone will be with rubbing alcohol and then you apply the new silicone to all of the edges and allow it to cure for 48 hours just to be safe.
> 
> Then fill it up and see if she holds!


just curious ....its only leaking on the side ( not the bottom ) but all the old silicon it seen to link together....should i use the razor and cut off the silicon right at the bottom and rip off the side or just rip off whatever come till its come off the apply the new silicon
thanks
CK


----------



## IrkedCitizen

New silicone will not adhere to old silicone so you must remove all of the silicone and apply fresh/new silicone to all of the seams. If you try and just reseal the one leaky seam then it can leak at the spot where the old silicone is touching the new silicone. You do not need to remove the silicone from between the glass panes just the main beads.


----------



## cichlids _killer

IrkedCitizen said:


> New silicone will not adhere to old silicone so you must remove all of the silicone and apply fresh/new silicone to all of the seams. If you try and just reseal the one leaky seam then it can leak at the spot where the old silicone is touching the new silicone. You do not need to remove the silicone from between the glass panes just the main beads.


again thank you ..will let you guys know how it turn out 
CK


----------



## cichlids _killer

done ...she hold the water real good .....thank for whoever put up this sticky opcorn: :thumb: opcorn: :thumb:


----------



## eke

Thanks for all this information. I resealed my 90 gallon using the instructions found here. I used the GE silicone 1. I only waited just over 24 hours for the dry time and the tank is holding fine!!! I am more than happy after going through all the hassles with the leak! Thanks again for this very informative sticky!


----------



## fishnmaine

So this is what everybody is using that's safe right?


----------



## Agnag

I found a GE Silicone\Acrylic tube at a good price (dollar a tube). I read the back and didn't see any warnings about not intended for aquarium use, and there was not mildew resistent printed anywhere. I was wondering if this would work?.... I think if it has acrylic mixed with it, after it cures it might crack... What do you think.


----------



## IrkedCitizen

Well the GE silicone 1 windows and doors is only like $3.25 a tube from lowes or home depot. A tube can do a pretty large tank. I would just stick to the tried and true but that's just me.

If you want to try it and find out how it cures for future reference for everyone then go for it. If I were to do it I would test it on a piece of scrap glass before doing it on my tank. Let it cure and see what it looks like when cured. It'll be much easier to remove from a scrap piece than the seams of your tank if it doesn't cure right.


----------



## Mcdaphnia

Agnag said:


> I found a GE Silicone\Acrylic tube at a good price (dollar a tube). I read the back and didn't see any warnings about not intended for aquarium use, and there was not mildew resistent printed anywhere. I was wondering if this would work?.... I think if it has acrylic mixed with it, after it cures it might crack... What do you think.


 I think it is window caulk. Caulk is not adhesive like silicone rubber, so unless you are lucky, it probably won't work. It would be great at that price to practice with it before assembing a tank for real. Get some cardboard boxes and practise laying in a smooth bead inside the box.


----------



## jzyjack

ge silicon 1 is 100% pure silicone ge silicone 2 has additives.


----------



## acrosstic

jzyjack said:


> ge silicon 1 is 100% pure silicone ge silicone 2 has additives.


Yeah the GE II has mildew and mold resistant additives.

http://www.gesealants.com/waterproof_lead-in.html


----------



## bacondaddy

so just to be sure. i bought a tube of ge silicone 1 100% silicone rubber sealant. and you all say it is safe for a tank. i called the phone number on the back of the tube and asked them if it was safe. they said no that both silicone 1 and 2 both have anti-fungal chemicals that leach out and will harm aquatic life. i know there is lots of people that say it works, but is there anyone that has had problems with it?


----------



## IrkedCitizen

It is safe. GE Silicone I Windows and Doors used to say "Aquarium Safe" on the tube but got taken off.

I am pretty sure the reason why it doesn't say "Aquarium Safe" anymore is because GE and All-Glass Aquariums got together to make a silicone product for AGA. Which AGA/Aqueon charges like $13 a tube and it is "Aquarium Safe".

That is why when you call GE they will tell you that it is not aquarium safe so you will go buy the more expensive AGA/Aqueon silicone.

It's all about the money.


----------



## bacondaddy

i was looking at this site

http://www.gesealants.com/sil1_window_door.html

it says silicone 1 does have bioseal.


----------



## IrkedCitizen

Go to buy AGA/Aqueon aquarium silicone then. It used to not have it in it. They probably added it because Aqueon complained.


----------



## bacondaddy

i found the material data safty sheet for silicone 1

http://www.efi.org/wholesale/msds/Foam% ... 3500-1.pdf

i don't know what to think


----------



## Agnag

I have used GE sicone 1 and 2, my friends like silicone 2 better. people say it has that mildew resistant chemical that leaches into the water and kills your fish. That is not true. I have used it and my friends have used it with no ill effects.


----------



## bullonparade

Hi

Last week I finished my DIY background and siliconed it to the back of my tank. It's been on there since last Wednesday (March 11) morning. I want to put water in, but I can still smell the silicone. Can I put water in or no?

It's a 55 gallon tank. Background is slate siliconed to plastic siliconed to the glass. I have put the sand and rock in there already, it's just waiting for water now.

The silicone was GE I window and door.

Any help appreciated!
Thanks


----------



## jfly

****!!!!!!!!!!!! i am finishing up a diy background and i used ge #1 **** can i use or cant i.. help please


----------



## Thorin83

****, I used silicone but I think I was not precise enough. The tank is leaking :/


----------



## imusuallyuseless

I've used GE Silicone 1 for windows & Doors many times w/no problems.


----------



## mikesl

I just used silcone I in small qty for adhering a 3D background.

I read the MSDS posted above, and while I am not a trained chemist, I didn't see any ingredients in that MSDS that look like fungicide.

The most dangerous appears to be the 5-10% METHYLTRIACETOXYSILANE, which is toxic if ingested, but this is only present in the uncured state. It is the chemical that breaks down and releases acetic acid (vinegar smell) during curing. Don't eat uncured silicone 

I know MSDS's look scary, but based on the years of user experience and the lack of any chemical on the data sheet that looks to be there only as a fungicide, I am OK with silicone I for my tanks.


----------



## ccla

bacondaddy said:


> i was looking at this site
> 
> http://www.gesealants.com/sil1_window_door.html
> 
> it says silicone 1 does have bioseal.


This version of the silicone (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... lpage=none) does not contain any bioseal.
I am not sure if they stopped manufacturing but it is readily available at my Home Depot and Lowers stores. I cannot seem to find it on the GE Sealants site.


----------



## bntbrl

Here are some excerpts and notes i found researching from a redesign I did on one of my tanks using the silcone II w bio seal. I had used it a lot before when it didnt have the bioseal label on it.

I understand claims that GE has not changed the recipe since the old tube that had no bio-seal label. The same withthe silicone I. Nothing new, just new labeling.

"brand is of the same quality and is what aquarium manufactures use in sealing there tanks. It is the 'Ethyl Triacetoxysilane as acetic Acid that gives it its adhesion and strength. the GE types (less odor) uses Methoxypolydimethylsiloxane and silicas. these GE caulks do have excellent adhesion but not what aquariums need for long term exposure underwater. and nobody wants a seam leak a few months or a few years down the line."

hazardous--- From the msds sheet
------------------
-------Polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS) is a commonly used silicon-based organic polymer. Due to its unique mechanical, chemical, and optical properties, it has become integrated into many microfluidic and optical devices.

-------------hexamethyldisilazane with the chemical formula [(CH3)2Si]2NH. The product is used to augment the adhesion of photoresist on silicon and SiO2 surfaces.

----------------Methyl trimethoxysilane --As a crosslinking agent for room temperature cured silicone rubber, coupling agent for glass fiber and SiO2, a strengthening treatment agent for plastic-layer pressing material

Thats both of them in the hazardous area. Neither are fungicide. They are basically ahesive promoters and strengthening agents.

---------------- Heres the big part I dont understand ------------------------------------------

Biocidal polymers active by contact. V. Synthesis of polysiloxanes with biocidal activity 
G. Sauvet 1 *, S. Dupond 1, K. Kazmierski 2, J. Chojnowski 2 
1Laboratoire de Recherches sur les Macromolecules (U.A. 502), UniversitÃ© Paris-XIII, avenue J.-B. Clement, 93430 Villetaneuse, France
2Centre of Molecular and Macromolecular Studies, Polish Academy of Sciences, Sienkiewicza 112, 90-363 LÃ³dz, Poland

*Correspondence to G. Sauvet, Laboratoire de Recherches sur les Macromolecules (U.A. 502), UniversitÃ© Paris-XIII, avenue J.-B. Clement, 93430 Villetaneuse, France

Funded by:
French-Polish Scientific and Technological cooperation Joint Project; Grant Number: 6508
KBN; Grant Number: 3T09A 03015.

Keywords 
functional polysiloxanes; quaternary ammonium salts; macromolecular biocide; antibacterial activity

Abstract 
Polysiloxanes with 3-(alkyldimethylammonio)propyl pendant groups were synthesized by quaternization of n-octyldimethylamine or n-dodecyldimethylamine with linear polysiloxanes containing 3-chloropropyl groups and/or 3-bromopropyl groups attached to silicon atoms. The precursor polysiloxanes, poly[(3-chloropropyl)methylsiloxane] homopolymer and various copolymers containing (3-halogenopropyl)methylsiloxane and dimethylsiloxane units, were obtained by equilibrium cationic polymerization of linear and cyclic siloxanes with (3-halogenopropyl)methylsiloxane units. The polysiloxanes bearing quaternary ammonium salts (QAS) showed bactericidal activity against bacteria such as Escherichia coli and Aeromonas hydrophila when incorporated in a polysiloxane network. The activity was retained after 66 days of immersion in water. The QAS-containing polysiloxanes are also active in aqueous solution. Â© 2000 John Wiley & Sons, Inc. J Appl Polym Sci 75: 1005-1012, 2000

----------------------------

It doesnt say that it is a fungicide, it just says that it inhibits growth. How? The silicone has an additive that makes a strong film on teh surface. Does this keep the surface from getting accumulations by being harder and slicker? I cant find anything that says it has a fungicide or mildew killing agent. I am not a chemist though. And I am not all that smart when it comes to advanced chemical compounds. I have been told that GE has had the same formula since the old school GE Silcicone II adn I didnt have problems with that.

-------BIOSEAL From the GE website --------------

The potential health effects of mold are a growing concern being studied by organizations ranging from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) to the American Industrial Hygiene Association. To combat the growth of unsightly and risky mold, GE has developed BioSeal, a proprietary additive that inhibits mold growth on its sealants. BioSeal prevents mold growth that can lead to unpleasant odors, discoloration, and potential health risks.

According to the CDC, indoor mold can cause or worsen certain illnesses. Allergic reactions, similar to common pollen and irritation are the most common health effects for people with mold sensitivities. Molds may also exacerbate asthma, cause flu-like symptoms and skin rashes. Exposure to mold affects people in different ways. Fortunately, most symptoms are temporary and eliminated by addressing the mold problem. BioSeal gives you the chance to do that by preventing the mold and mildew growth that typically occurs on the sealant.

Mold growth is a considerable concern for both builders and homeowners. Products like GE Silicone II with BioSeal help rid your kitchen, bathroom, or your door and window frames of mold problems before they even have a chance to start.

------------------
It doesnt say that it kills anything. Its like it does this as a secondary purpose to what they were trying tod o to start wtih, and because the surface may have been hard to promote adhesion, after curing it kept mold from sticking because it was so smooth or hard. Not becaue it was a poison. I have researched and so far this is all I have found.

---------Email to Ge------------
Hello,

I understand the Bio-Seal is a mold inhibitor. The labels and info I have found do not say that it "kills" anything, or contains any poisons such as arsenic etc to kill the growth of bacteria and or mold/mildew. I would assume that this is a physical attribute of the silicone, especially the silicone II door and window. I am asking if there are any specific poisons or inhibitors taht "kill" bacteria and or mold/mildew. I read the msds sheet and the chemicals appear to be adhesive promoters and strengtheners, not fungicide and or poisons like arsenic or what have you. I need to know if there are any added poisons or if by its physical nature it inhibits the growth of mold or bacteria. Has it changed its formula since in obtained the bioseal logo from the older version taht did not contain the bio seal logo?

Thanks for your time,

--------------------------------------

Recap: Over all it appears that the silicone II cures with an ammonia base. The Sili I cures with the acetic base. Ammonia is bad in a tank. It must cure fully at least for a couple days, silicone II that is. GE says it sstill the same old stuff it has always been. The MSDS sheet doesnt show any apparent chemical additives (like the bathroom versions do). I dont know if I have any chemists in teh extended family but Im going to check and ask the wife too about that long worded part with all the poly and hexa and whatnot. It appears to me that it says no where "kills" anything. For that matter glass is mold resistant, as would be fish slime. Bleach however is a mold killer. Thats a big difference. My tank is a week old and the fish are alive and well. Some of my crypts are frayed at the edges from being in a bucket for 3 days but for everything being in a bucket for 3 days with no aeration or light its okay. I lost a couple neon tetras, they were already 6 months that I had them. I had put about 6 gallons of water back into the 29 gallon from teh original tank. The filter was also stopped for 3 days (canister HOT 350).

Illw ait and see what the Sil II door and window does but it appears that everything is okay. I used great stuff foam, covered it with silicone, let it cure 24 hours, and them brushed silicone on with coconut coir to texture the silicone. Looks good. There are some dead spaces inteh form of plant shelves, and a place to hide my co2 diffuser.

Surely this stuff applied thick cannot be fully cured in 24 hours and the ammonia leaching as a result of curing will kill your fish, or at least stress them I would imagine. Thats probably why some have had problems with it, but Im not the definitive say so.


----------



## Eb0la11

Ok I got a simple question about GE silicone.

Somewhere along the line I've been buying GE silicone II instead of GE silicone I.

I think that I have read either work as long as its for windows and doors but that one of the two had a higher bonding rating or something. Now my questions are: can either work?

Also, can either work in SALTWATER application? Anyone have experience with either in salt water application?


----------



## Eb0la11

Anyone?


----------



## Hthundar

Use aquamend that comes in a squeeze tube. it says aquarium safe right on it. you can get it at any hardware store.


----------



## bntbrl

I posted this on antoher thread but thought Id put it here too. I used Silicone II for a background a couple months ago and all fish and shrimp and plants are doing well. I let it cure for a week or so before doing anything with it.


----------



## gurvir19

to glue texas holey rock together you guys recommend silicone or aquamend?


----------



## cjacob316

the acid keeps the silicon from solidifying while it's in the casing, but once it hits air the acid starts to vaporize and dissipate, the silicon is dry and cured once all of the acid is gone, that's why it doesn't harm the fish


----------



## get_up_mark

i had a tube a tube lying around of silicon. it says 100% silicone. G.E. 1* i dont know what the astric stands for. the tube is white and has blue writing. the silicon is clear though. also on the back it says not to use it in aquariums. its for windows. doors. attic and basement. anyone know what the difference is with the astric?


----------



## Malawi_Junkie

Used it on my 220 and it worked great. Very strong smell though.


----------



## Malawi_Junkie

Make sure to get the 100% silicone clear ,with out the mold and mildew resistant stuff in it these chems will kill your livestock.


----------



## Toby_H

Hthundar said:


> Use aquamend that comes in a squeeze tube. it says aquarium safe right on it. you can get it at any hardware store.


I've never used Aquamend and am not discouraging anyone else from using it...

But I believe the purpose of this thread is to let people know that GE I Silicone Window & Door is safe to use, despite the warning on the label...



bntbrl said:


> I posted this on antoher thread but thought Id put it here too. I used Silicone II for a background a couple months ago and all fish and shrimp and plants are doing well. I let it cure for a week or so before doing anything with it.


The 'Bio Seal' in GE II is an ammonia based additive. So it is a gamble as to whether or not our tank's biofiltration will be able to safely handle the ammonia that leaches out of it.



get_up_mark said:


> i had a tube a tube lying around of silicon. it says 100% silicone. G.E. 1* i dont know what the astric stands for. the tube is white and has blue writing. the silicon is clear though. also on the back it says not to use it in aquariums. its for windows. doors. attic and basement. anyone know what the difference is with the astric?


GE I Silicone Window & Door is aguarium safe... It does say "not for aquariums" on the label, but it is aquarium safe...

GE I used to say "aquarium safe", but when GE started supplying All Glass with silicone (and All Glass repackages & resold the silicone) part of the contract was that GE would print "not for aquariums" on the label...



Malawi_Junkie said:


> Make sure to get the 100% silicone clear ,with out the mold and mildew resistant stuff in it these chems will kill your livestock.


I completely agree that anything that is "mold & mildew resistent" or contains "bio seal" is not safe for aquarium use.

But both GE I Silicone & DAP (non plus series) comes in a small variety of colors and these colors (including black and almond, both of which I've used) are aquarium safe.


----------



## Tinga

So is this the actual GE Silicone people are using ?









http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=47209-72643-LW012A&lpage=none

At $4 a tube, I'd say that's pretty good compared to $9-13 for the smaller aquarium marketed stuff.
It's the GE Silicone 1, but in the description it says Mildew resistant.

Not sure if that is just a by-product of silicone or an additive..


----------



## Toby_H

I've thoroughly read the Lowe's page you linked for us and I see absolutely no mention o fbeing Mildew Resistant... Can you please state specifically where you see it?

I'ev also reviewed GE's sight and they make absolutely no mention of GE I being Mildew Resistant... But the GE II does...

GE I - http://www.caulkyourhome.com/ge-silicon ... d-door.php

GE II - http://www.caulkyourhome.com/ge-silicon ... d-door.php

*Note - www.gesealants.com which is an official GE site reroutes to the above links... feel free to veryify this...

This thread is full of posts which contain simple mistakes that can be very misleading... please read thoroughly and double check statements made here...


----------



## Tinga

In the description at the bottom, in the blue box.
Wasn't sure of it's actually labeled from GE that way, or Lowes?
Caulk Type:	Silicone
Warranty:	Lifetime
Use:	Indoor/Outdoor
Surface Applied To:	Multiple
Dry Color:	Clear
Size - Measurement (oz.):	9.8
Product Set Time:	30 minutes
Category:	Window and Door
Paintable:	No
*Mildew Resistant:	Yes*
Sanded / Unsanded:	Unsanded
Color Family:	Clear


----------



## Toby_H

^ Thanks, I did miss that on the Lowe's website...

The GE site doesn't mention Mildew Resistant for GE I... I haven't bought/read that new package so I can't comment with certaincy what the label says, but in the several photos of the new packaging I've seen online I have not been able to find any notation of Mildew Resisance on the packaging...

I actually bought some GE I Window & Door last night and used it today on a terrarium, but the Ace Hardware I bought it at had the 'old' (grey) packaging...


----------



## Tinga

Okey Dokey

I'll pick some up and use it. Luckily I'm doing a DIY background on a 10 gal.


----------



## Hafizullah

Gorilla Glue is inert and food-safe when cured, according to the representative I spoke to at the company. I wouldn't use it to seal a tank, but I do use it to stick things to each other inside it.


----------



## gatorsaver

Gorilla Glue hummmm :-?


----------



## White Thunder

i used the blue label silicone made by ge clear silcone .....i made a cave out of pvc and gravel....i let it set for 3 days or so then i put it in....i didnt soak it or anything like that....now all my fish are dead....

anyone think it was the slicone


----------



## mightyevil

Can you go into a website like Lowes or homedepot and find the product and them post the URL in here? Then we may be able to help you better. I have always used GE I silicone for my tank and never had a problem, heck I even have used number GE II by accident and no problems.

So how did you make the cave? Put silicone on the exterior of the PVC and threw gravel on it?


----------



## White Thunder

yeah thats how i made it.....im about to take a pic of the silicone and upload it...


----------



## White Thunder

looking closer it appears to be silicone II


----------



## White Thunder




----------



## IrkedCitizen

White Thunder said:


> looking closer it appears to be silicone II


Yeah that is the problem. Silicone II has the bioseal stuff added to it.. You needed to get 100% silicone I for windows and doors.

What fish did you have?


----------



## White Thunder

2 Melanochromis auratus
6 Pseudotropheus acei

the female melano is still alive and one of the aceis....


----------



## Chriis

I all

i saw a company on the web, MrAqua or someting, they sell big frameless tank and specify
that they use Germany made special silicone,..that is suppose to held lot more ,..

"Mr. Aqua utilizes a thicker glass for increased rigidity with a specially formulated silicone manufactured in Germany that bonds the glass together with extreme strength while being safe for your fish and aquatic life"

Any heard of this silicone?

Chriis


----------



## BillD

If you want extra strength, use GE1200 series silicone. It is designed for construction use and is safe for fish. rumor has it that this is the preferred material used by manufacturers for large tanks.When you use thicker glass, you will get a stronger joint because there is more silicone between the 2 pieces.


----------



## D-007

Not taking anything away from what *BillD *said but the reason GE Construction SCS1200 silicone is best to use is because of it's tensile strength. There is a great writeup/comparison of silicones of MFK that is really worth reading and they build some BIG tanks.

Only thing about the SCS1200 is that it may be tough to find/get a hold of unless you are up to buying a case (which in my opinion can be worth it in the long run). Google is your friend.

The industrial version of GE Silicone 1 for Doors & Windows is also a good 2nd choice - it is RTV 108. That's not to say GE Silicone 1 is rubbish either.

So in summary & in my opinion, if you can get SCS1200 then go with that; if not go with RTV 108.

Btw, I have not heard of "a specially formulated silicone manufactured in Germany" that is the answer to all our needs, and I did see that quote on the web. Comes across to me as a marketing ploy.


----------



## D-007

Small update ... the SCS1200 is a series (hope that makes sense).

The actual sealant designations (i.e. colors) are:

*SCS1201 .......... Translucent*
SCS1202 .......... White
*SCS1203 .......... Black*
SCS1204 .......... Aluminum
SCS1204 .......... Dark Bronze

I've bolded to two common colors most of us are interested in to make it easier for referencing.

Also, for finding a distributor, I found the best thing to do was call GE (aka Momentive as they are now know as) and speak to a Customer Service Rep (phone #: 877.943.7325) about where the nearest Distributor would be.


----------



## BillD

We have a couple of guys that are buying cases and reselling on a local forum, for around $5 a tube.


----------



## D-007

Bill, could you PM the forum link or put me in touch with them please.

Or if it ok with the mods, pop the info here on the forums - it would help us all out a lot I believe.

Thanks,
D


----------



## Mcdaphnia

Chriis said:


> I all
> 
> i saw a company on the web, MrAqua or someting, they sell big frameless tank and specify
> that they use Germany made special silicone,..that is suppose to held lot more ,..
> 
> "Mr. Aqua utilizes a thicker glass for increased rigidity with a specially formulated silicone manufactured in Germany that bonds the glass together with extreme strength while being safe for your fish and aquatic life"
> 
> Any heard of this silicone?
> 
> Chriis


I saw that German silicone on Aquabid a while back. It has not been posted for auction lately. And the last auctions for it are too old to be searchable. You might ask Swiss Tropicals.


----------



## Chriis

Find this ,..maybe the solution to aquarium silicone ?

Have to investigate it

NUFLEX 333

http://www.hitechglazing.com/product/42730/40344

http://www.fullredguppy.com/silicone.html

Chriis


----------



## karlaandrob71

Do not use the GE Silicone II Kitchen and Bath I used it to reseal my tank let it sit for 5 days then put my fish in they got sick and the silicone was peeling off. then I got Dow Corning 732 now that some good stuff.


----------



## Chriis

Here in Canada, 
BOTH silicone I and II (Windows & Door) have mention on it about resisting mold,

So i think GE decide to put poison in all silicone they makes,..clear for me that i never ever use GE stuff near my fish!

i will give a try to "Aquarium Silicone 333 by NUCO"

http://www.hitechglazing.com/file/129404/


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## Malawi_Junkie

GE silicone 1 is offered with or with-out the mold and mildew resistant, so read label carefully.


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## bntbrl

The GE Silicon II having poison now added is bunk. If yo look at the MSDS sheet there is nothing new about it. It appears that the surface cures harder to resist mold growing, as it always had, is what the bioseal is.

It has not killed ANY of my fish in any of my GE Silicone II with BioSeal made backgrounds. I DO NOT USE KITCHEN AND BATH. Only use door and window.

I will agree that ammonia is bad in your tank, but so is acetic acid. Acetic acid in the Silicone I cures faster than teh ammonia in Silicone II.

There is no poison in the silicone II that I have used, with BioSeal. I have tank that has apistos in it 1 gal, one with betta coccina, one with rams, and a planted 29 gallon with about 4 tubes in it of silicone II and nothing has dies from those tanks since I set them up. My BN pleco has chewed it up on one tank and ate all the coconut coir off of it after a couple months.

If you use the silicone II make sure youw ait a week or so and that there is no ammonia smell. Read the MSDS sheets of the before and after. I still use the silicone II. In fact I had an old MetaFrame tanks that I picked up at a yard sale that the thycol or whatever seaer was dried up. I wiped it on the inside with alcohol, and beaded brown Silicone II with BioSeal in it and let it dry for a week and used it. I have cories in it now and have had them in it for many moany months. Some tanks *** had for more than a year, and one for about 2 years with Silicone II. Since Silicone II with BioSeal started being labeled *** used it, whenever it started being labeled liek that, so thats how long *** been using it and havent noticed any difference in it than any other tank, new tank or not. I do not thin that mechanically it is as strong as clear Silcione I but I dont use it for that anyway. The metafram tank had that sealer on the outside of the framed glass. I just lined the inside with the II.

Anyway, enough blabbering, this is my experience with it. Ill try it on saltwater when I set up a salt tank eventually.


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## alexan0030

there are different types of acetic acid on the market. It's the concentration that matters. I buy my acetic acid at amazon. They sell a fairly cheap one too.
Cheers,
alexander


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## alexan0030

by the way if you like some more info about acetic acid and the different concentrations go here http://hubpages.com/hub/Acetic-Acid


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## bntbrl

I like cucumbers stored in acetic acid. Well, vinegar at least.


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## dollysnw

Formulated for outstanding durability, excellent joint movement capability, and weather resistance.


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## dollysnw

Formulated for outstanding durability, excellent joint movement capability, and weather resistance.


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## averagedude

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=218907


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## greenman965

I recently bought a used 55 gallon tank, "leak free" they said, off of Craigslist. After gently transporting it home and filling to check it, I could have used it for a lawn sprinkler. I completely broke it down, cleaned it, and reassembled using the silicone II from G.E..... Perfection. (Or I hope so, as it's sitting on a 100 yr. old heart pine floor!)

THE KEY, to ANY assembly/reassembly, before consideration of whatever you decide to use to stick it together with, is preparation and cleaning!!!. A mere misplaced oily fingerprint can spell disaster.
:fish:


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## greenman965

[email protected] said:


> Do not use the GE Silicone II Kitchen and Bath I used it to reseal my tank let it sit for 5 days then put my fish in they got sick and the silicone was peeling off. then I got Dow Corning 732 now that some good stuff.


I've used pretty much all caulking of any type ~silicone,acrylic,urethane, etc~ in 30 years of construction. I've found NOTHING wrong with the G.E. silicone II in tank construction. AGAIN, it's all in the PREP AND CLEANING. If you don't do it properly, ANY sealer can fail. period. My oscars showed NO ill effects from using the silicone II.


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## BillD

Since tank manufacturers use the acetic cure version, that is good enough for me. Up here there are a few house brands that state they are "ideal for aquariums" on the label. That is what I normally use, and they are marginally cheaper than the GE. However, if I was building a large tank, I would use the GE 1200 series, for it's extra strength.


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## luispena

this is the best you are 100 % sure the first time you use it.


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## annem

*FTLOSM*
Hi, I have been reading all these old posts about silicone, did you ever find something that works and will hold up when cleaning and rearranging the tank?
Hope you're still out there.
Anne


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## Chunkanese

annem said:


> *FTLOSM*
> Hi, I have been reading all these old posts about silicone, did you ever find something that works and will hold up when cleaning and rearranging the tank?
> Hope you're still out there.
> Anne


im using GE 1 silicone window and gutter. It seems pretty strong for me, and im building a cave background using vinyl gutters.


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## annem

ok, so that would be something you would use w/ a caulking gun? and would you need cure time?
Thanks, Anne


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## supadupamikey

annem said:


> ok, so that would be something you would use w/ a caulking gun? and would you need cure time?
> Thanks, Anne


The larger size containers need to be used with a caulking gun, but the smaller tubes are like what toothpaste comes in. they're both around $4-5 at HD/Lowes, but you're getting like 11oz vs 4oz. The smaller tubes can be resealed (easier), but I dont know how long it'll keep.


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## Guest

i used ge silicone I kitchen bath plumbing and it killed a bunch of my fish... the guy who made me my 3D backgrounds says he has used it and this didnt happen... apparently ge is putting moldicide in all their silicone products and the west coast has the older tubes without the moldicide and the east coast has it with the moldicides... i however found at home depot a ge silicone that its only name is ge 100% silicone.. its not in the paint/silicone aisle its in the aisle where the plexiglass and acrylic sheets are and it looks like this..










no matter what anyone says that they've used ge silicone I or II *** used both and they both have killed my fish... so this is the no argument alternative... oh and ps does anyone have any suggestions on a good way to get all the silicone residue off the back of the tank? *** scraped as much of it off with a razor as i can but theres a bunch of smudges still on the tank idk if this will kill my fish or what i could use to get it off thats safe to use on the inside of a tank.. any suggestions?


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## GTZ

m1ke715m said:


> ...apparently ge is putting moldicide in all their silicone products and the west coast has the older tubes without the moldicide and the east coast has it with the moldicides...


Proof or rumor?


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## Guest

the guy that i met on here that made 4 of my backgrounds that does this for a living.. he makes backgrounds and installs them in peoples tanks called ge and they told him they are putting moldicide in all of their products wether it says it or not. they jus havent phased out all their old stock without it.. *** used the ge silicone II windows and doors and the ge silicone I kitchen bath plumbing and he said he's used the same one i just used and it def killed my fish. if you look anyone thats said they've used any of these products without harm is from the west coast... anyone that says that theyve used the products and the fish died is from the east coast. all i know is the one i just posted doesnt kill anything and isnt even meant for caulking windows, doors, drains, plumbing nothing.. its just 100% silicone nothing else... and it was only $6 a tube.. if you'd like to talk to him hes on here. heres his diy thread of his own tank build hes a real nice guy and he made me some killer backgrounds dirt cheap

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=222514


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## biglove

m1ke715m said:


> i used ge silicone I *kitchen bath plumbing *?


The problem is that you didn't use GE I WINDOW & DOOR, Mike. I spoke with GE two weeks ago and was told by the rep that the only version of their silicone that does not have the chemical mold and mildew inhibitor is "GE I Window & Door."

Hate that you lost fish, mate...


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## dsouthworth

This has been said a million times. but i must again just cause im a little bit anal about these things.

GE Silicone I (Clear)
Window/Door/Attic/Basement

S'all good right?


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## Guest

so people say.. but id use the one for plastic sheets.. i know 100% that works its in the plastic sheet and glass pane aisle


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## DanniGirl

dsouthworth said:


> This has been said a million times. but i must again just cause im a little bit anal about these things.
> 
> GE Silicone I (Clear)
> Window/Door/Attic/Basement
> 
> S'all good right?


Yes


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## theoryguru

I've used Clear GE 1 (avg price $4.50CDN) and WeatherShield 100% clear silicone from Home Hardware (3pk $11.97) for resealing a tank and on two 3D backgrounds. 
No problems to date with either brand. Tip: I always wear disposable gloves, quick cleanup :thumb:


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## TrashmanNYC

Just bought a tube of GE I today at HD and it said 100% silicone on the front.


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## Guest

they all say 100% silicone.. thats just referring to there being no acrylic in it..


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## SeahorseDeb

This thread has been very helpful. I aquascaped with layered slate in my 90/gal, and I am going to silicone a few pieces together. Going to try two pieces as a sample, since most of u are using it on glass. Keeping my slate perfectly balanced when I do a teardown and rebuild is a migraine. So I will test it out and see how it works. I will let u know in about two weeks, to allow time for curing. I have to take a few pieces out of the tank and let them completely dry first, thanks all, this has been great education!


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## matt121966

note to self ge silicone clear window door


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## fishkeeper54321

Why dont you just go to Petsmart and buy Marineland aquarium silicone for 8 dollars?


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## Guest

cuz ge makes the marineland silicone its the same product as the one for plastic sheets and the doors and windows one


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## fishkeeper54321

Oh OK Thanks going to buy some today for PVC caves.


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## Ptyochromis

I got a tube of GE silicone I window and door and proceeded to patch a 10g an a 46bow front. After its all said and done I read on the back in the smallest print ever "not for use below water level" ಠ_ಠ. Some people say safe, others say not safe. I guess I'll fill up the 10 and stick a tetra in it and see if it dies or not lol. How long should it take before I see death/sickness from whatever malicious chemicals may be in it?


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## DJRansome

It took 2-3 days for me.


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## Ptyochromis

Now I just have to find a spot for it....

But the fish had no symptoms? Just bellied up? I wold prefer to try and pull the fish out if it starts exhibiting symptoms..


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## Guest

when i used the wrong kind they all laid at the bottom the next day and then started dying.. you'll know


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## BillD

Ptyochromis said:


> I got a tube of GE silicone I window and door and proceeded to patch a 10g an a 46bow front. After its all said and done I read on the back in the smallest print ever "not for use below water level" ಠ_ಠ. Some people say safe, others say not safe. I guess I'll fill up the 10 and stick a tetra in it and see if it dies or not lol. How long should it take before I see death/sickness from whatever malicious chemicals may be in it?


The warning about not using below water is if used it as a caulk. It isn't marketed for aquariums.Unless something has changed, GE Silicone I for Windows and Doors, contains no mildewcides, and is safe.


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## elimsprint

I just found this link which was very helpful, http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=36149 I can get the Momentive RTV-103/108 through a local distributor (Interior Electronics) Anyone else in Canada looking for this product can find a retailer from this link, http://www.mgchemicals.com/distributors/canada/ab/
Kim


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## Ptyochromis

Sorry, totally forgot I was going to sacrafice a fish for the sake of _science_

Ill, clean the tank out with vinegar, rinse and let it sit with water for a day before I add a betta to it. Should I float something like translucent plastic to lower it's stress? or just let it in the empty tank?


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## Phildo

I would test with something like a danio. Bettas don't always use their gills and they are so hardy I would still be worried about putting other fish in after.


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## B.Roberson

here's what i did, go to ANY hardware/paint store, home depot/ lowes, fred meyer,up here in the pac northwest, in the paint section ..








.............then you dont have to worry bout ge I ge II or window /door,, kitch/bath.gutter or whatever!!....... It says safe for EVERYTHING!! :roll:


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## Iggy Newcastle

B.Roberson said:


> here's what i did, go to ANY hardware/paint store, home depot/ lowes, fred meyer,up here in the pac northwest, in the paint section ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .............then you dont have to worry bout ge I ge II or window /door,, kitch/bath.gutter or whatever!!....... It says safe for EVERYTHING!! :roll:


Hey Roberson...

Does it come in black? I read your thread about your 90. Awesome setup, btw. I remember you mentioning you wish you had not used clear silicone on the sides. The reason for asking if it comes in black.


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## italionstallion888

I've used the all purpose ^^^ picked it up from ace. I didn't have much luck with it. Whatever you are using it on, make sure you take some sand paper to it first. I trashed it and picked up the GE sillicon 1, does a much better job. My local Ace only has it in clear, no black.


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## Borsig

Is this info still accurate?

GE silicone I window and door?


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## Mcdaphnia

Borsig said:


> Is this info still accurate?
> 
> GE silicone I window and door?


Obviously you are not asking about the prices.. Prices keep going up even if the consumer price index fails to notice.

Be sure the product you are buying is the same as the one discussed. I would take personal preferences with a grain of salt. Like the last one. The GE may have worked better for him the second time because he learned better how to clean all the old silicone and dirt off the aquarium glass. The dirt factor can have a huge bearing on the strength and durability of a bond.

Some of these formulations may be the same as ever, but now made overseas and imported.


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## B.Roberson

just noticed your question Iggy Newcastle. prolly too late to answer your question. 
no i havnt seen it in black... but, the algae and just time ,the silicone on the sides have grown a brown tint to it so it is blending in. :thumb:


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## ricmcc

I generally have used the G.E. stuff, I know that all larger Fish Dealers near Toronto sell it when you ask for aquarium sealant. Actually, the only two things I definitely rule out when using aquarium silicone is those marked as having a mildew killing product, and those using ammonia (likely safe after a full cure, as mentioned above, I just hate using anything wish ammonia in my fish room) in their curing process. BTW, G.E.'s website says that the product will be basically cured after 24 hrs, but fully cured only after up to a week. For what it's worth, I used it on many aquariums, and never had the slightest problem with a 36-48 hour wait period. Other than sticking to everything I touch for about the first 10 minutes, that is ----rick


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## socalclimber

I used GE Silicone I from Lowes to glue my rocks together, cured for 3-4 days, added water. All good for 3 days, until I started fishless bio cycling with household ammonia. I'm at < 1ppm Ammonia, but now I see shedding from the silcone joints on some of the rocks. It took a full day to start doing it, fine pieces on silicone skin coming off of the silicone joints on rocks.

On my Ammonia Alert, I'm on light blue (0.2ppm).

Help! So, maybe I didn't let in cure long enough? Or, take it all apart and do it with the proper silicone? Maybe I added a little too much ammonia? It seems to be shedding most where I added the ammonia. I'm seriously bummed!


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## socalclimber

I think the issue is/was that I did not dilute the ammonia and put it in right over the outcrop of rocks, and so it got a higher dose and started to break down some of the silicone. The other outcrops are fine.

I took out the silicone'd rocks and stripped the tank down, rinse the filters, and have started over without rocks or gravel/sand. I will cycle the tank with feeder goldfish, re-think the rocks, maybe use them, or not. I rinsed off the one outcrop and it seems fine (now).


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## joescaper1

I have used Dow Corning RTV 732 for over 30 years (although not every day), and have had no problems. Acetic acid is present and can be a problem to those susceptible (high humidity seems to make the effects worse).

Joe


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## chiroken

I recently contacted a custom tank builder and they use exclusively GE 1200 series. He explained that not all silicone has the same tensile strength and that weaker silicones can cause splitting between the panes of glass. I've used the GE 1 in the past but never on any tanks bigger than 45 gallons.


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## chances14

i know a few people who make tanks and they use American Sealants Inc aquarium silicone. It's not nearly as well known as the GE silicone but it has one of the strongest tensile strengths among aquarium safe silicone that i have seen

http://www.americansealantsinc.com/wp-c ... epds76.pdf


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## scott whitney

Here is a link to GE 1200 Construction Silicone from Amazon. It comes in clear and black. http://www.amazon.com/SCS1200-Silicone- ... 7MQ7PB4W9C

I'm thinking about buying a used tank to disassemble and glue back together. Thanks to all the advice on this site, I plan on using GE 1200.


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## BillD

You may have trouble finding the GE 1200, as it is normally only sold in bulk packs. It is usually sold in places that supply trades rather than retail. If you cab find a jobber who breaks up the pack, it should be only a little more than Silicone I. As far as the interior fillet goes, it probably doesn't matter if you use Silicone I or GE 1200. For the butt joints, the stronger silicone is probably better, because the glass is not as thick as it once was, so the bonding area is less than tanks built 40 years ago.


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## Twisms

Ge1 for windows and doors says in the specs that it is mold and mildew resistant. So does it have a chemical that will leak out and kill the fish?


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## Twisms

Just pulled this from a Home Depot review of ge1 silicone door and window 
I was looking for 100% silicone with no additives whatsoever. After calling the help number on the tube, customer service informed me that there is indeed a mold inhibitor in this formula although it doesn't state so anywhere on


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## Pdxmonkeyboy

I have always wondered what the effect of the mold inhibitor actually was. I mean, the silicone itself would not mold, but what it leach out into the tank water??


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## Mcdaphnia

Pdxmonkeyboy said:


> I have always wondered what the effect of the mold inhibitor actually was. I mean, the silicone itself would not mold, but what it leach out into the tank water??


 It appears to leach out into the water, killing fish and plants.


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## TNChris

Use momentive rtv 103 (or 108 if you want clear). Same as GE 1200 series.

GE silicone 1 comes in black and is in stock at my local Walmart. I haven't used it for in task applications.

I used the momentive 103 to reseal a 6 ft tank this spring. Worked great.


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## greid

Cheapest option I've found in Canada is Home Hardware
Theirs says safe for aquariums
http://homehardware.ca/en/cat/search/_/ ... 20silicone

Saw some the other day - sorry don't know brand - at a nut & bolt shop. Clearly labelled as safe for aquariums BUT fine print said only up to 100 gal.

Graham


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## caldwelldaniel26

It's really not worth the effort anymore. I'd rather spend a little more and not have to deal with the headache lol! The only occasion that I've found a diy tank to be worthwhile and cost effective, is when it's a really large tank and all but one side is plywood.


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## SirD

I'm actually building a large tank myself, built the base out of 6/2 And dressed it in 15mm ply that acted as sheet bracing,
The timber and glass cost $1000 in total but at 280 gallons I think it's a bargain.

Actually paid for the glass today, can't wait!

I have prosil 20 professional 100% acetic silicone to bond the glass.
Anyone know how good that is?


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