# Royal Pleco



## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

Hello. It's been a while since I've been here, so I'll skip past the guilty "I only show up when my fish are sick" akward pause and...

I bought a beautiful 3 - 4 inch Royal Pleco from my LFS on Friday (five days ago). He has been sporting around the tank and looking fine. Sucking on the glass here, rocks there, etc.

Yesterday I noticed that he really only stayed in one spot for nearly the entire day. And he wasn't suctioned. He was just laying there.

Today I noticed more lethargy (though I am easily paranoid). But right when my Husband came home from work, I saw that he was laying on his side, his sucker completely flared out. I was sure he was dead as a door nail.

He has since moved, but still seems, weak, to me.

He is in a 55 gallon tank with 9 cherry barbs and 4 green severums (juvies, all about 1.5 inches). The water quality is perfect 0s across the board for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate. However, my pH is, as always, high (8.1)...

Obviously this isn't optimal for him, but everyone else in that tank does very well. He didn't seem shocked when I put him in the tank on Friday. And, honestly, my LFS has the same water source so I doubt they have it much lower than mine.

I have kept other scaleless fishes in the same water for years, but I have never had a pleco before. Also, the scaleless fish I have had before were Synodontis, so they hardly count.

Anyway, I guess I am just looking for someone who has had pleco/royal pleco before to tell me -- yeah, they always look lazy. Or, OMG get him out of there!

Also -- I have a large chunk of driftwood in there that I was hoping would help with my pH, but it's pretty nill for effect. I don't want to do chemical regulation because its so fluctual. Any other pH regulatory methods out there?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*AnnaFish*
5 days is just about perfect timing for transportation stress to kill off an already sick fish. 
I doubt you did anything directly responsible for this... but that fish has a very high probability of dying. It's certainly not normal behavior for that species and personally I would simply remove and kill to put it out of it's misery. Not a pleasant task, but the right thing to do IMHO. Sorry about your loss.


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

Yikes!

Uhm... Well.... uh...

poop?

I guess I will put him in a quarantine tank so he can die alone...


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

I've decided not to move him. For two reasons -- he pretends to be lively whenever I walk up to the tank, and that might just stress him out more. Whatever he is going through appears to be of no consequence to the other fish. They've been just as well as he not existed this whole time. If he dies, I'll be there to scoop him out within the hour, and the tank is double filtered anyway.

I have some kale in the fridge. Seeing as how these might be his last hours, would it be alright to see if he'll eat some? (I have seem him appear to be diligently cleaning the wood, rocks, and fake plants, as well as the back glass, just today.)

Last question --

So, it's entirely possible that my water's pH is not wholly responsible? Meaning that I might be able to get another one? (Though I probably won't. I don't tend to keep buying fish that I fail at.)


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

AnnaFish said:


> If he dies, I'll be there to scoop him out within the hour, and the tank is double filtered anyway.


 It's ok not to move the sick fish out, but be advised that there are many pathogens that will flee a dead host and even within the hour might be a good dose of whatever the pleco brought in to the other tank inhabitants.



AnnaFish said:


> I have some kale in the fridge.


 definitely offer him foods including something he can't resist like frozen mysis shrimp if you have it. There is always the chance he was malnourished when you bought him. Sunken OR swollen belly is a bad sign on any pleco purchase but of course it takes some experience to know when you are looking at normal vs abnormal.

I do not think your pH/water was solely to blame. Often it is a contributory factor, but fish really do want to live. They don't say to themselves "oh, this feels different! I think I'll drop dead to avoid this". It's wise to remember this when treating sick fish as well as trying to determine what killed them. It's usually something that just plained overwhelmed their total capacity to fight off. 
:thumb:


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

BHAHAHAHAHA

"oh, this feels different! I think I'll drop dead to avoid this"

That made me feel better, thank you.


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

Kale has been deposited. The lights have been off for 3-4 hours now. He has been seen swimming away from my shadow and latching on to the "away facing" side of one of my rocks.

It's too soon after "sideways pucker up play dead" moment to chock it up to paranoia. But, I would call him lethargic anymore...


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## TexasFishGuy (Aug 20, 2010)

> Sunken OR swollen belly is a bad sign on any pleco purchase


That is what I have heard from many sources. They don't seem to do well with transport in this state, and usually die....but you do have to know what you are looking for. I lost the first 2 plecos I bought, each within the first few days after buying them. My 2 current bristlenose have been doing fine for the last 5-6 months now.


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

He definitely doesn't have a swollen belly. And I saw a definite sunken belly common pleco at the LFS in a separate tank, I wouldn't put him in the same class as that one.

I would say he looked rather average to me. I could see a slight depression. But he doesn't look emaciated to me.

I've been concerned I don't have enough food sources for him. I have some algae wafers at work I will have to bring home. He seemed like he was finding plenty of food on his own, until yesterday.


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

Well, I just walked in to the living room to find him dancing around the front glass like he owns the place. I haven't seen him after the kale but it's pretty much scattered all over the place. I have confirmed that his stomach is exactly flush, neither portruding nor receding. Whether or not he ever lies on his side again and plays dead remains to be seen.

I guess I should remove the kale before it rots...

I'll try something that sinks tomorrow.


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

_Panaque _are soft wood eaters, so having the driftwood is a good thing. They are also very much vegetarian, but from what I've heard it prefers actual plants rather than algae.

Vegetarian Plecs have to eat constantly to remain healthy and grow. Ingo Seidel did a talk on collecting Loricariids in Brazil, and one of the photos showed the intestines of a _Panaque _strung out in a straigt line; over 6 feet of intestine in an 8 inch fish! And if that gut doesn't stay full, they will slowly starve to death. Most of them are starved during shipping, and that's why so few individuals of some species survive. If you've got him feeding, you have a chance.

Kale was a good choice, and keeping it fresh is good thinking. A lot of people blanche greens so that they sink better. Raw slices of zucchini or cucumber can also be clipped to a weight and sunk, as the large _Panaque _like to eat out the middle and then chew on the outer rind.


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

It would be nice if LFSs were clearer about the misconception that all plecos are algae eaters. At least he doesn't LOOK starved yet. I wanted to get some more driftwood. If I wasn't already in the car pet the grocery store on my 45 minute home commute I'd stop for zuke and cuke. I need a weight...

The bagged kale I gave him last night was actually supposed to be my lunch. But I had forgotten about it. It actually expired yesterday... Surely it's still good enough for a fish?


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## football mom (Feb 19, 2006)

I have a lot of Bristlenose Plecos, and they can hollow out half a zuccini overnight.
I attach the zuke to a small stone with a rubberband, tie a length of fishing line to the rubberband, and then I can pull out stone and rind whenever.
I started doing this at night, but now they come swarming out for their veggie as soon as it hits the water.


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

My in-laws live down the street and they had some sort of funny shaped cucumber from Canada!

So, I stuck two thick slices of cucumber on the end of a butter knife (the butter knife is older than I am... it only cuts butter), so that it would sink. The lights are off.

He's not interested.

But we'll see what he gets up to in the night time when the lights are REALLY out.

(please eat please eat please eat)


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*AnnaFish*
very good news to hear he's active and something shredded the kale! With any luck he'll eat tonight and pull through! I'm happy to be proven wrong on my predictions when the outcome is so positive!!! I'll keep fingers crossed.

Great you found a "real" cucumber... not those waxy things you yanks call a cuke! :wink: Proper English cucumbers where you can slice them and eat them without feeling like you just ate a candle! :lol:


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

LoL. Down here, Yanks a whole different set of folk. (Mostly the folk that only venture here during the winter!)

But yes. It smelled rather more fresh and lively than the bland things McDonald's stuffs in our "salads".

I am on the computer all night tonight to keep me away from the fish tanks (in the living room).

I tend to stare...


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

1. He is eating the cucumber!
2. He is almost exclusively tackling the rind (positioning? fiber?)
3. He chases away the severums after letting them "inspect" his cucumber.
4. I am now convinced that what I thought was him laying on his side puckering his lips and shouting "alas I be during yo" was actually his reaction to me running up the the tank and startling him as he was chewing on my drift wood.
5. Coolest toy ever -- iPhone flashlight app red filter let's you spy on nocturnal fish!

How often should I give him cuke/zuke/kale and is that a sufficient diet?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

AnnaFish said:


> How often should I give him cuke/zuke/kale and is that a sufficient diet?


that is fantastic news! With the cuke or zucchini, remove anything left over after anywhere from the next day to the day after that. You don't want it to begin to foul the water. It can be replaced with something else green right away (the ideal) but again, clean up for the fish.

De-shelled peas are a great food for plecos of any shape or kind if they will take it. I try to supplement the driftwood, zucchini, etc. with the peas and the occasional treat of mysis shrimp. 
The occasional gnawed on mysis acts as an appetite stimulant as well as giving them some easily digestible protein that won't harm a vegetarian fish IME.


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

Okay, cool!

I will buy some more foodins on my way home today.

I went in this morning and he had completely removed the rind.

mmm yay not dead!


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## football mom (Feb 19, 2006)

My mbuna gobble up shelled green peas also. None of my fish will eat greens of any kind, though. They'll nibble on green beans, but not enthusiastically. I guess I have really spoiled then with the zucchini...
So glad your Pleco is doing well. I have really become interested in the plecos now. I have 
two BN spawns growing out, the second batch has several albinos in it. They are pretty cool.


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

Hey guys.

Everybody is doing great.

But I have started noticing long green strings coming from my pleco.

Am I over feeding him?

Does he have bloat?

Do they just do this?

:\


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*AnnaFish*
they just do that. It's a combination of the veggies and driftwood. Great job and getting him back to full health!


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

yay!!

Thanks for all of your help!


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

Well I just had quite a scare...

I came home to find the cucumber untouched and my pleco upside down behind the filter (it's a tetra in tank filter)

I'm all nervous and mad and I go to lift him out of the water... but I couldn't. He was stuck.

He got his tail stuck inside the suction cup on the back of the filter!

He swam away and I turned the lights off so he could chill out.

I hope he's okay.

He might have been upside down and stuck since some time last night.


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

He lets me touch him (I thought he was dead so I tried to get him out). But I was unsure... he seems alive but unwilling to move. He still has nice color (I don't know if pleco decolor like other fish) so I think I will leave him for the night (I gave him a peice of PVC to hide in if he wants it...) and if he is still wonkey tomorrow, I will quarantine him... (If he's not dead).


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*AnnaFish*
sorry to hear that... it sounded very hopeful for a while there... a fish that's eating has a chance.


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

I think his tail might be broken.

That might explain why he doesn't want to move.

I'm going to put him in a hospital tank where maybe he doesn't have to try so hard to get to the food.....


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## football mom (Feb 19, 2006)

I hope he recovers. I found a fish stuck in a piece holey rock last week, never had that happen before. I was afraid I'd killed him getting him out, but he bounced back and is swimming today.


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

He does move. Just not far. To the left. To the right. While I was in the shower he struggled to pucker the glass. Figuring he was hungry, I moved his cucumber right up to him. I have to go to a job interview so I don't have time to set him up in ICU until I get back.

-_-


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## AnnaFish (Aug 9, 2006)

He passed this evening. Poor thing. I wish I knew how he got stuck between that filter like that.

I'll wait a few weeks. Maybe tear down and redesign my tank. I might get another one. We'll see.


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