# 600 gallon ca cichlid journal



## clekchau

hi, setting up a 600 gallon african cichlid tank and looking for suggestions. I was leaning towards an all male hap/peacock tank full of color and activity, not interested in breeding. perhaps alot of synodontis or cloan loaches in the bottom? How many fish would you guys recommend? Dimensions are 8 feet long by 4 feet wide by 30 inches high.


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

An all male hap/peacock would be awesome! There is no way to tell you how many you could have because they all grow to different length.

pictures PICTURES *PICTURES* :lol:


----------



## cantrell00

clekchau said:


> hi, setting up a 600 gallon african cichlid tank and looking for suggestions. I was leaning towards an all male hap/peacock tank full of color and activity, not interested in breeding. perhaps alot of synodontis or cloan loaches in the bottom? How many fish would you guys recommend? Dimensions are 8 feet long by 4 feet wide by 30 inches high.


MBUNA! :thumb:

Man - the possibilities are almost unlimited...


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

cantrell00 said:


> clekchau said:
> 
> 
> 
> hi, setting up a 600 gallon african cichlid tank and looking for suggestions. I was leaning towards an all male hap/peacock tank full of color and activity, not interested in breeding. perhaps alot of synodontis or cloan loaches in the bottom? How many fish would you guys recommend? Dimensions are 8 feet long by 4 feet wide by 30 inches high.
> 
> 
> 
> Man - the possibilities are almost unlimited...
Click to expand...

The possibilities are unlimited! :lol:


----------



## cantrell00

7 groups? 8-10 per

Msobo
Labs
Cyno Hara
Acei Ngara, Lwalla, or Tanzania Black
Cyno Lion, Lions Cove
Rusty
Red Top Trewavasae or Marmalade Fuellborni


----------



## clekchau

not many pics now, all i have is the tank being buffed out (acrylic got scratched when it was a saltwater really bad) and a big wet dry. just built a new room and the stand will be built next week. still need lights, rocks, etc , it will be a penisula style 3 side viewable aquarium










this wasn't intended to be a build thread but i will update it with pics along the way


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

WOW! That's a BIG tank. So the tank was an SW tank be4?


----------



## cantrell00

That tank is ridonculous...

I don't envy you on the buffing though...

I assume this is going on a ground floor - slab?


----------



## clekchau

yes its on a slab extra reinforced, the guy buffing will be done next week, stand is being built this week also.

i'm thinking 30 male haps, 20 male peacocks, maybe a colony of fronts, alot of synos? about 70 fish total? i know i'm still months from stocking it but can't stop thinking about what to put in it , i don't want to breed, i want a colorful active tank


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

so if the tank was an SW tank be4 that is good. It mean's that you will have a higher PH than your normal water.


----------



## clekchau

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> so if the tank was an SW tank be4 that is good. It mean's that you will have a higher PH than your normal water.


i use a 4 stage ro/di setup for the water in my salt, ph was never a problem. do i need to do something special for the cichlid tank?


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

I am pretty sure that the calcium from an SW tank will buffer the PH.

I may be wrong but I think that's it.


----------



## cantrell00

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> I am pretty sure that the calcium from an SW tank will buffer the PH.
> 
> I may be wrong but I think that's it.


It would but doubt that there will be much left given all of the buffing...


----------



## noddy

You need look no further than this link ; )
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... 38a47fcb88


----------



## dielikemoviestars

cantrell00 said:


> 7 groups? 8-10 per
> 
> Msobo
> Labs
> Cyno Hara
> Acei Ngara, Lwalla, or Tanzania Black
> Cyno Lion, Lions Cove
> Rusty
> Red Top Trewavasae or Marmalade Fuellborni


Only 56-70 fish in that monster? I'd throw close to 150 mbuna in it if I went that route.


----------



## cantrell00

Ok... 8 groups but no idea what it would be... There is room for a blue/black bar type.. Which one?


----------



## smitty

A tank that size affords you endless possibilities.


----------



## Rhinox

:jawdrop.gif: - <<<that emoticon is needed for this thread.

Where did you find that tank? If you bought it new, I don't even want to know how much it cost...

If you go with haps and peacocks, I'd leave out the fronts. They won't be happy surrounded by the more rambunctious malawi's. That tank's almost big enough you could put a pile of rocks in the back corner for a group of mbuna, and leave the rest more or less open water for your haps and peacocks. The bigger haps might try to hunt down the mbuna, but if you keep the tank well fed they probably won't be as motivated to.

Just imagine doing nothing but labs and dems in a tank like that (or a saulosi species tank)...

:drooling:

By the way the main reason I'm posting is to watch this thread for replies and morepics of the progress opcorn:


----------



## dielikemoviestars

Agree with Rhinox. (more) Pics are required.


----------



## Vadimshevchuk

Mbuna tank!! that would be amazing and would look like the lake with over 100 swimming all over!


----------



## czar_wilson

can i come over and go swimming in your new in house pool lol


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

If the fish fail you have a hot tub! :lol:


----------



## bobesku

Good luck with your project. Expecting *more* pics.



Rhinox said:


> By the way the main reason I'm posting is to watch this thread for replies and morepics of the progress opcorn:


Now I`m subscribed too opcorn:


----------



## Fu3l

I think over 9000 apisto's would be good. Cannot imagine what I tank like that would look like planted and full of dwarf cichlids.

I have always thought a predatory tank would be cool, and i think you could do the blend with maybe a back corner and some wall being stacked rock for larger mbunas and then the rest being open water for larger haps and the like.


----------



## cantrell00

Fu3l said:


> I think over 9000 apisto's would be good. Cannot imagine what I tank like that would look like planted and full of dwarf cichlids.
> 
> I have always thought a predatory tank would be cool, and i think you could do the blend with maybe a back corner and some wall being stacked rock for larger mbunas and then the rest being open water for larger haps and the like.


+ 1 :thumb:


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

I wander if an all MALE dwarf tank is possible??? That would be awesome!


----------



## clekchau

Rhinox said:


> :jawdrop.gif: - <<<that emoticon is needed for this thread.
> 
> Where did you find that tank? If you bought it new, I don't even want to know how much it cost...
> 
> If you go with haps and peacocks, I'd leave out the fronts. They won't be happy surrounded by the more rambunctious malawi's. That tank's almost big enough you could put a pile of rocks in the back corner for a group of mbuna, and leave the rest more or less open water for your haps and peacocks. The bigger haps might try to hunt down the mbuna, but if you keep the tank well fed they probably won't be as motivated to.
> 
> Just imagine doing nothing but labs and dems in a tank like that (or a saulosi species tank)...
> 
> :drooling:
> 
> By the way the main reason I'm posting is to watch this thread for replies and morepics of the progress opcorn:


i bought the tank from midwest custom aquarium, it was $2200 new about 4 years ago.

i love mbuna but i also love haps and peacocks, i heard mbuna were too aggressive for peacocks though  i know the possibilities are endless but i was looking for more suggestions, i'm leaning towards an all male hap/peacock tank with maybe a colony of frontosas but yes worried about aggressiveness of malawis, maybe a bunch of syndo catfish.

not too much progress or cool pics , kind of on a budget.

wetdry i got for a good deal









friend is welding a steel stand for me, base is done









tank buffing going well most major scratches out, one more round to get really clear i think









stand and buffing should be finished this weekend or maybe next


----------



## cantrell00

That steel frame will be nice....


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

ANY NEW PIC'S?

Have you decided on what you want to stock?


----------



## jchild40

bobesku said:


> Good luck with your project. Expecting *more* pics.
> 
> 
> 
> Rhinox said:
> 
> 
> 
> By the way the main reason I'm posting is to watch this thread for replies and morepics of the progress opcorn:
> 
> 
> 
> Now I`m subscribed too opcorn:
Click to expand...

Yup... same here.


----------



## ecrumpler

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> so if the tank was an SW tank be4 that is good. It mean's that you will have a higher PH than your normal water.


Not so much.


----------



## clekchau

finished steel stand and painted it










put tank on stand









big wet dry below the tank, got it for $50 









plumbed external overflows









wish i had more time and money to get this going more but it will get there eventually


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

WOW! I am so jealous right now! :lol:


----------



## clekchau

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> Have you decided on what you want to stock?


thats what i came on here for to get suggestions lol i have some but i'm leaning towards the all male hap/peacock tank with possibly a colony of frontosas, or maybe forget the colony of fronts and add mbuna? i don't know the tank is pretty big so have some options.


----------



## newforestrob

wont the temperature be affected with the sump in the concrete hole?looks good,keep up the good work,how did the tank buffing turnout?


----------



## clekchau

newforestrob said:


> wont the temperature be affected with the sump in the concrete hole?looks good,keep up the good work,how did the tank buffing turnout?


im hoping not i have the room hooked up to my central ac/heat and also i have some window ac units. buffing turned out good, no more big scratches, a few spots could use another round but i'm going to give it a good cleaning and see.


----------



## newforestrob

By the way I vote for Frontosas,maybe another Tang species with them
Haps,Peacocks,and Mbuna can go in a 75, but Frontosas cant


----------



## dillon0990

beautiful :thumb:

really jealous right now

keep the pics comin opcorn:


----------



## Brooks74

newforestrob said:


> By the way I vote for Frontosas,maybe another Tang species with them
> Haps,Peacocks,and Mbuna can go in a 75, but Frontosas cant


Most Haps cant go in a 75.I would do a big hap/peacock tank.


----------



## mobafrontlover

newforestrob said:


> By the way I vote for Frontosas,maybe another Tang species with them
> Haps,Peacocks,and Mbuna can go in a 75, but Frontosas cant


i agree or atleast go with and community tang tank you would be able to get so much personality out of that tank


----------



## newforestrob

*Brooks74*

Most Haps cant go in a 75

There are alot of different hap species that can,anyway,like I said my vote are Fronts,which shouldnt be in anything smaller than a 6 foot tank IMO


----------



## clekchau

why can't i do haps, peacocks and fronts? i don't intend to breed


----------



## mobafrontlover

fronts will go crazy they are very laid back fish and haps and peacocks are very active and that will stress out the fronts


----------



## clekchau

ok i want some active fish , what about haps, peacocks and mbuna?


----------



## rkeiger

The mbuna will nip and stress the haps and peacocks


----------



## clekchau

ok ... :?


----------



## newforestrob

This is one reason why most end up with multiple tanks


----------



## Morpheen

Wow that is an awesome tank! If it were me I'd go to Lake Tanganika with a colony of Trophs, Gobies and Petro's. So many choices..


----------



## mobafrontlover

Morpheen said:


> Wow that is an awesome tank! If it were me I'd go to Lake Tanganika with a colony of Trophs, Gobies and Petro's. So many choices..


+1


----------



## clekchau

i've got an in wall 550 saltwater fowlr, this is going to be my dream freshwater

probably will go with large haps/peacocks and try some fronts with it i know it might not be the best for fronts but dunno still deciding


----------



## Cooder

how about a boulengerchromis microlepis pair?!?! emperor cichlids from lake tanganyika. biggest cichlids in the world!!!! they grow to almost a metre long!! (im joking)

or how about a million or so multies? 150 cyprichromis?? yeh that would be great.

Complete shell bed the whole tank with no substrate and 150+ cyps! that would be awesome!! just like in the lake

go lake tanganyika for sure.


----------



## clekchau

i'm really more into haps/peacocks, just frustrating can't keep frontosas with them

like this:


----------



## chinds78

DROOLING! 

THAT TANK IS AMAZING!

And, clekchau, i like your idea of a hap/peacock tank. If had a larger tank thats what I would go with.


----------



## Dutton

Maybe it's been mentioned before but I believe a cichla tank would be awesome.


----------



## chptunes

If I had lots of time, money, space, and a 600 gallon tank, I'd do a Malawi tank of Haps and Mbuna. No Peacocks and no Tangs...

I would start with a conservative 20-30 Ps. Saulosi and just let them claim territories and multiply. Then I'd add one or two Hap groups. Then, I might add 20-30 OB Red Zebras.

Along with Pool Filter Sand substrate and lots of Limestone (travertine, holey rock), I think this stock would have diversity and stability.

..wow, 600 gallons.. wow... :drooling:


----------



## gilberbt

> i'm really more into haps/peacocks, just frustrating can't keep frontosas with them


I think that in some cases it is overstated what you can and canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t do in African Cichlid setups. I mean maybe I have had dumb luck in the past 4 years with my setup but I have a mixed male hap/peacock/mbuna with one Frontosa without any major issues. I have had to rehome some fish from time to time but overall its been a very stable setup. My Front has only been in my setup just over a year and is still young (approx. 4-5 inches) so I may run into more issues later, but my other fish could care less about him. I wanted to experiment to see if it would work and it has with my setup, also did plants and nerite zebra snails which a lot of people say you canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t do either.

Granted my setup is on a much smaller scale than yours but my take on it is the fish donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know what lake they are from and if you willing to rehome any fish you add at any time due to major aggression/stress issues I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t see the problem there.


----------



## ahud

IMO (and that's what the OP is asking for so don't flame me :lol: ) I think that big tank will be a complete waste if you go with Malawi in general. You have a huge tank, do something most of us can't replicate in the standard aquariums we usually have.

Who cares about colorful fish guarding territories...go with Tanganyikans. Not only will you be able to watch the tank evolve and grow, but you will also get to see a wide range of behaviors. Mbuna are so boring, if they were not colorful nobody would have them.

Just my two cent,
Aaron


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

ahud said:


> IMO (and that's what the OP is asking for so don't flame me :lol: ) I think that big tank will be a complete waste if you go with Malawi in general. You have a huge tank, do something most of us can't replicate in the standard aquariums we usually have.
> 
> Who cares about colorful fish guarding territories...go with Tanganyikans. Not only will you be able to watch the tank evolve and grow, but you will also get to see a wide range of behaviors. Mbuna are so boring, if they were not colorful nobody would have them.
> 
> Just my two cent,
> Aaron


+1, agreed


----------



## cantrell00

ahud said:


> IMO (and that's what the OP is asking for so don't flame me :lol: ) I think that big tank will be a complete waste if you go with Malawi in general. You have a huge tank, do something most of us can't replicate in the standard aquariums we usually have.
> 
> Who cares about colorful fish guarding territories...go with Tanganyikans. Not only will you be able to watch the tank evolve and grow, but you will also get to see a wide range of behaviors. Mbuna are so boring, if they were not colorful nobody would have them.
> 
> Just my two cent,
> Aaron


Extreme position considering you have never owned them? I guess you developed that strong disdain by viewing them for all of 5-10 minutes at the pet store?


----------



## ahud

I just meant I prefer tangs and gave him the reasons why.

I have never owned mbuna, I need to try them, but I always fill a spare tank up with something else! Maybe one day when I have a few extra tanks I will give them a go :thumb:


----------



## cantrell00

> Mbuna are so boring, if they were not colorful nobody would have them.


What part of extreme & disdain doesn't apply to what you said?

You seem pretty adamant to me... Having not actually kept them, I don't know how you could be in positition to have such an absolute opinion...

I never give opinions on Tang's because I have never owned them & cannot speak intelligently about them..

Sorry if I ruffled feathers.. Carry on...


----------



## ahud

Just my opinions from reading and videos. No feathers ruffled here :thumb:


----------



## clekchau

ahud said:


> IMO (and that's what the OP is asking for so don't flame me :lol: ) I think that big tank will be a complete waste if you go with Malawi in general. You have a huge tank, do something most of us can't replicate in the standard aquariums we usually have.
> 
> Who cares about colorful fish guarding territories...go with Tanganyikans. Not only will you be able to watch the tank evolve and grow, but you will also get to see a wide range of behaviors. Mbuna are so boring, if they were not colorful nobody would have them.
> 
> Just my two cent,
> Aaron


no aaron thats cool i appreciate feedback. i love tangs, i love malawis more i think they are more active, colorful, and haps get big which is what i'm looking for, i also think they have personality, different than tangs just like south americans or a large saltwater predator tank is different but all are appealing to me.

in your opinion, how will a tang tank grow and evolve that a malawi tank will not? i've had tangs before (tropheus, fronts) and i guess i'm not seeing it but maybe you can explain your position?

why can't i go outside the box and keep both tanks and malawi? some thing its tacky but i've seen it done successfully, in a large tank i think it would be more probable.

on the tank note, i have an old sequence hammerhead that i need to get rebuilt and need new bio balls from the wet dry before i get it running, i guess i can start filling it with water.

thanks


----------



## mobafrontlover

I agree with aaron and what I think he is saying is you could have exaples:
Multis wwhich will colonize along with julies and some altolamprologus some sand sifters and feather fins gobies and cypricromis (which will colonize also) rather then having an all male haps tank all these will breed and grow in a tank that size so imo that's what makes tangs so much better then malawi. You could have 6 different species rather then one. So you would have a lot more personality.

Think about havings a mini lake tang. Rather then just a large fish tank.


----------



## chinds78

This would make a great grow out tank for fronts. 15-20 of those big boys all grown out in it would look awesome!


----------



## ahud

What I meant was that as the fish begin to breed and pair off, the offspring of those fish would grow to claim different areas of the tank. So lets say if you had julies, they may eventually begin expanding their territory and take over more of the tank. The tank would be evolving over the years, one species may gain an upper hand only to get pushed back, ect. I have always wanted to try this myself, but I don't have the time to let it evolve (college, moving when finished).

I also think you could have a more interesting tank with tangs as mentioned already. All of the fish are so different and there is a wide range of behaviors to observe with tangs.

By all means, if you like Malawi better go that route. Like I said, they just don't do it for me.


----------



## fmueller

I have never understood why Tang people tend to look down on Mbuna. Mbuna are basically the Tropheus of Lake Malawi - they just cause you less heartache, and for the most part they are more colorful.

What makes the whole evolving tank thing Aaron talks about more feasible in a Tang setup is that you have a bunch of smaller rockdwellers, shelldwellers, and cyps that fill niches in a small to medium sized tank for which there are no Malawi counterparts. However, with a 600G tank, a different world of options is opening up!

You said you want a colorful and active tank, but you are not interested in breeding. The catch is that most fish show their best colors when breeding, and there is no more interesting behavior to watch in a tank than breeding behavior. Personally I get bored quickly with a tank full of males chasing each other about, but I don't want to step on the toes of those who love their all male tanks.

With all that said, if I had that 600G, I would make a breeding group of Aristochromis christyi the centerpiece. Think of them as the Malawi equivalent of your Frontosa. I recently read an article about them in a German cichlid magazine, and can't get them out of my head. Awesome fish! They usually require a large species tank, but maybe in a 600G that assumption could be challenged.

Since we have 600G to fill, I might also ad a breeding group of Cyrtocara moorii and one of Dimidiochromis compressiceps. Both are species that I have always been itching to keep and never had the space. This 600G would fit both and then some :lol:

For color I would ad a number of the more peaceful mbuna, but nothing too rowdy so we don't upset the haps. Say a breeding group each of Labidochromis caeruleus, Metriaclima lanisticola (the photo in the article does not do this fish justice), and Cynotilapia afra. If you are desperate for peacocks, one breeding group of a species of your choice might work in addition, but you can't have two because of hybridization.

I'd try to buy all those fish as juveniles and let them grow up together. Aquascaping would have to ensure that there are rocky areas for females and fry to hide out. Areas with Valisneria sp in the sand, and some Java fern on the rocks could also assist that purpose. At the same time you need plenty of open swimming space for the larger fish.

Yep, I think that is a tank I could watch evolving for a year or ten


----------



## Vadimshevchuk

What fmueller said sounds awesome! some big fish mixed in with smaller ones (yellow labs)!!


----------



## cantrell00

> I have never understood why Tang people tend to look down on Mbuna. Mbuna are basically the Tropheus of Lake Malawi - they just cause you less heartache, and for the most part they are more colorful.
> 
> What makes the whole evolving tank thing Aaron talks about more feasible in a Tang setup is that you have a bunch of smaller rockdwellers, shelldwellers, and cyps that fill niches in a small to medium sized tank for which there are no Malawi counterparts. However, with a 600G tank, a different world of options is opening up!


Exactly!

What gets under my skin is that often their is the implication that "Malawi" guys just can't comprehend the intracasies of Tang's. Nothing would be further from the truth..

They each have their pro's/con's & for the most part, what seperates the two is strictly one's opinion. Simple as that.


----------



## mattrox

When you go large Hap, you don't need to go all male anyway. Picking fish carefully will avoid interbreeding. Add P. taeniolatus and C. borleyi 'mara rocks' to the list too. Imagine watching schools of them making use of all that swimming space. Even with a few silvery fish, the overall effect will be amazing.


----------



## clekchau

wow thanks for those ideas! i have seen several all male tanks where they have fabolous color and they are really active , lively tank that i love the africans for

but awesome suggestions and comments.!


----------



## chptunes

cantrell00 said:


> I have never understood why Tang people tend to look down on Mbuna. Mbuna are basically the Tropheus of Lake Malawi - they just cause you less heartache, and for the most part they are more colorful.
> 
> What makes the whole evolving tank thing Aaron talks about more feasible in a Tang setup is that you have a bunch of smaller rockdwellers, shelldwellers, and cyps that fill niches in a small to medium sized tank for which there are no Malawi counterparts. However, with a 600G tank, a different world of options is opening up!
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> What gets under my skin is that often their is the implication that "Malawi" guys just can't comprehend the intracasies of Tang's. Nothing would be further from the truth..
> 
> They each have their pro's/con's & for the most part, what seperates the two is strictly one's opinion. Simple as that.
Click to expand...

Great posts Mueller and Cantrell. :thumb:


----------



## cantrell00

clekchau said:


> wow thanks for those ideas! i have seen several all male tanks where they have fabolous color and they are really active , lively tank that i love the africans for
> 
> but awesome suggestions and comments.!


You have a number of people living vicariously through this 600 gallon project of yours... :drooling:

If you weren't already aware! :lol:


----------



## prov356

> Mbuna are basically the Tropheus of Lake Malawi


They are, I've noticed that since I replaced my tropheus with mbuna. They are cichlids, so they jostle for dominance and territory, display for females, have heirarchies, same things that tropheus and other tangs do. If you like tropheus, you'll like mbuna. I'm really liking my mbuna tank right now, and I started out as a hard line tang keeper.

The large predatory Malawians are fantastic looking fish and on my wish list. Great writeup Frank. :thumb: I'm going to copy/paste that out and save it. Good recommendations. Great variety and it would generate a whole lot of interesting activity.


----------



## cantrell00

> The large predatory Malawians are fantastic looking fish and on my wish list. Great writeup Frank. I'm going to copy/paste that out and save it. Good recommendations. Great variety and it would generate a whole lot of interesting activity.


Yup... He did a much better job with it than I ever could have...

Kinda like that 10-12' long Malawain tank we were PM'ing about. Same concept..

Given a large enough footprint & water volume, there is a lot that could be done. A lot could be learned from it too.


----------



## fmueller

Now I keep looking at this ad. My wife is away for work until December. Think she'd notice the slight change in decor when she returns? :fish:


----------



## cantrell00

fmueller said:


> Now I keep looking at this ad. My wife is away for work until December. Think she'd notice the slight change in decor when she returns? :fish:


Uhmmm.. Without question...

That is a very unorthadox stand under it. Very "modern".. That would have to be changed...


----------



## Nwright36

that tank and stand is awesome


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

cantrell00 said:


> fmueller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now I keep looking at this ad. My wife is away for work until December. Think she'd notice the slight change in decor when she returns? :fish:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhmmm.. Without question...
> 
> That is a very unorthadox stand under it. Very "modern".. That would have to be changed...
Click to expand...

I do agree on the stand.


----------



## chinds78

WOW, now THAT'S an aquarium. Not sure if I've ever seen a ten foot tank in a home, maybe at the zoo.


----------



## clekchau

wow that aristochromis is one nice looking fish! i love the fusco, vc 10, venustus, compressiceps, red fin borleyi, tangerine tiger, rhoadesii, etc just thinking about an all male hap tank makes me drool

anyone heard of the malawi trout? i forgot the name but heard they get pretty big too.


----------



## dielikemoviestars

Champsochromis caeruleus. Yeah, huge. :thumb:


----------



## FishyOne

I have about 35 Mbuna and a few synos in my 210g and it looks rather empty. You should be able to put 100+ typically sized african's in a 600.


----------



## clekchau

FishyOne said:


> I have about 35 Mbuna and a few synos in my 210g and it looks rather empty. You should be able to put 100+ typically sized african's in a 600.


wow really? any pics?

this is the 'plan' although it changes almost daily :?

25 male haps
20 male peacocks
15 fronts
10 syno
10 clown loaches
15 misc (maybe some other tangs, victorians etc )

i love the activity, color and personality (yes i think malawis have a ton of personality lol) of this tank:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-N26l82 ... re=related


----------



## ahud

I would not mix lakes, makes for an odd display in my opinion.


----------



## chinds78

I agree with ahud.


----------



## clekchau

hmmmmm i like it i know people think it looks tacky, to each their own as long as the fish are healthy and happy i don't see it as a big deal.

still haven't decided though, money is a little tight for fish, so right now i can only dream of what will eventually go in there


----------



## chinds78

I don't think it looks tacky, just a little odd. I think a single lake tank looks more natural, mother nature is always the best decorator.


----------



## clekchau

chinds78 said:


> I don't think it looks tacky, just a little odd. I think a single lake tank looks more natural, mother nature is always the best decorator.


yeah i get it why people lean towards a biotype, its just not me i just want cool, active, colorful, aggressive fish and lots of them


----------



## cantrell00

clekchau said:


> chinds78 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it looks tacky, just a little odd. I think a single lake tank looks more natural, mother nature is always the best decorator.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah i get it why people lean towards a biotype, its just not me i just want cool, active, colorful, aggressive fish and lots of them
Click to expand...

Pundamilia Nyeri are commonly seen in Malawian based tanks... Victorian.


----------



## cantrell00

FishyOne said:


> I have about 35 Mbuna and a few synos in my 210g and it looks rather empty. You should be able to put 100+ typically sized african's in a 600.


That is a nice looking fish in your avatar.. What is it?


----------



## clekchau

finally got some time(and money) to plumb the tank 

3 1 inch overflows, 2 directly to the wetdry, 1 to a rubbermaid stock tank, check out pool pump recommended to me, was $250 and flows as much as my old sequence hammerhead




























had an extra rubbermaid stock tank that i put online to the system, 2 flows, 1 into a drain for easy waterchange, the other flows direclty to a sump thru a 1 1/2 bulkhead.










nice 72" solaris led i picked up for a great deal, 3 watts x 150 led lights










FTS up and running still alot more to go but at least its plumbed and running, no leaks!










next steps:

set up led lights
start fishless cycle
paint bottom black
go to landscaping and get some large rocks, maybe a large driftwood


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

Nice, really really nice! Have you decided on the stock?


----------



## clekchau

honestly i'm now leaning towards central amereican cichlids , about the 10th time i've changed my mind :lol:


----------



## The King Crabb

You may have mentioned this before (I'm more of a picture person than a word person), but where in the world does that rubbermaid go? And that hole in the floor that the rubbermaid is draining into, where does that lead?


----------



## chinds78

There are some nice larger CA/SA cichlids out there. Some oscars and green terrors would be great in such a large tank.


----------



## chinds78

Also, the LED light is quite impressive. Didn't even know thye made them that big. Was it build for aquarium use?


----------



## Dominateprimate

I don't have a tank big enough but I'd put some big SA species in there; some oscars, big cats(like maybe some red tail), green terors would be awesome in there too. I envoy you so much right now. can't wait to see more pics

opcorn: :drooling: opcorn: :drooling: opcorn: :drooling: opcorn: :drooling: opcorn:


----------



## clekchau

The King Crabb said:


> You may have mentioned this before (I'm more of a picture person than a word person), but where in the world does that rubbermaid go? And that hole in the floor that the rubbermaid is draining into, where does that lead?


one of my overflows goes into the rubbermaid, and exits to the sump. open the gate on the bottom and it flows in the drain on the floor that flows to my sewer, had that built when i was designing the room. someday i might be brave enough to do a continuous water change system.


----------



## clekchau

Dominateprimate said:


> I don't have a tank big enough but I'd put some big SA species in there; some oscars, big cats(like maybe some red tail), green terors would be awesome in there too. I envoy you so much right now. can't wait to see more pics
> 
> opcorn: :drooling: opcorn: :drooling: opcorn: :drooling: opcorn: :drooling: opcorn:


yeah i was thinking more along the lines of some large amphilophus, parachromis, and vieja, maybe getting a group of 14 different species as juveniles and growing them up to try and end up with 14 or so males, not interested in breeding still... but i will probably change my mind again lol i've thought of the peacock bass route also but leaning towards ca cichlids for now


----------



## The King Crabb

Are you planning to have the rubbermaid container a little more hidden?


----------



## aussie pride

Why not do a huge Front biotope with a school on 15 or so frontosa with some schools of other, smaller cichlid species from around the same area? That would be unbelievably impressive :drooling: ...


----------



## clekchau

The King Crabb said:


> Are you planning to have the rubbermaid container a little more hidden?


maybe later, i plan on encasing the tank and top in wood but that will be a year or so out, that entire side of the room is the fish/bird room so not really worried about the stock tank out in the open, there will be 2 huge java wood climbing trees by the windows for various parrots. the stock tank is really big not sure how i would 'hide' it, never really thought about it, any suggestions?


----------



## clekchau

aussie pride said:


> Why not do a huge Front biotope with a school on 15 or so frontosa with some schools of other, smaller cichlid species from around the same area? That would be unbelievably impressive :drooling: ...


i thought about that in the beginning, very impressive. but i visited a friend with some really big red devils and jaguars and their personality is so outgoing , not so skittish like the fronts, thats what swayed me towards the central american all male idea.


----------



## clekchau

wanted to see what the lights look like


----------



## clekchau

chinds78 said:


> Also, the LED light is quite impressive. Didn't even know thye made them that big. Was it build for aquarium use?


missed this sorry yes its a solaris 72" fixture built for aquariums, pretty pricey when new, i got a great deal at $500 about what i would have paid for t5's


----------



## cichlidfan16

WOW! Very nice tank, I can even imagine the fun I'd have with a tank that size. I'm very partial to CA/SA species so I would love to see you stock your tank with them. The possibilities are endless!


----------



## chinds78

WOW, $500 is still a bit steep, but it looks like a really nice one.


----------



## chinds78

OH, is your tank 6' or 8'?


----------



## chinds78

clekchau said:


> wanted to see what the lights look like


WOW, those are bright! Do you have two different lights on there?


----------



## zimmy

clekchau said:


> wanted to see what the lights look like


Wow!!! 

opcorn:


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

clekchau said:


> wanted to see what the lights look like










NOT FAIR!









I also want my own cichlid jacuzzi. AWESOME!


----------



## Vadimshevchuk

Still think you should do Mbuna i mean just dump rocks in the middle so you can see the fish on both sides and sit back and relax.


----------



## The King Crabb

Vadimshevchuk said:


> Still think you should do Mbuna i mean just dump rocks in the middle so you can see the fish on both sides and sit back and relax.


I agree, you could easily have 8 or 9 species in there!


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

The King Crabb said:


> Vadimshevchuk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still think you should do Mbuna i mean just dump rocks in the middle so you can see the fish on both sides and sit back and relax.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, you could easily have 8 or 9 species in there!
Click to expand...

Ya, NO! Aulonocara is what he's going with!


----------



## clekchau

built pulley system for lights



















added 10 more gallons of bioballs, the wet dry is huge total of 15 gallons of bioballs and still could use a good 2 to 3 more gallons to completely fill if needed










started fishless cycle 3 days ago, already getting nitrite readings, is that normal i thought it took 3 to 4 weeks?? i didn't even seed.


----------



## clekchau

chinds78 said:


> clekchau said:
> 
> 
> 
> wanted to see what the lights look like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, those are bright! Do you have two different lights on there?
Click to expand...

hi, yes it was a little steep for freshwater lighting but pretty reasonalble for a high end led system, it has a combination of white, blue and green, 150 3 watt bulbs for a total of 450 watts, built in timer/programmer to mimic the weather across different zones, built in fans etc etc its pretty nice even for saltwater standards, i figured i would have spent $200 on fluroscents, $400 on t5's, might as well get the LED's 

the dimensions of the tank are 8 feet long by 4 feet wide by 30 inches high.

i think i'm going with an amphilophus community with a few parachromis and vieja thrown in for variety, thats the plan for now 

next step is to go to landscaping place and get some river rock for substrate and a few nice big rocks.


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

What substrate are you going to use? Also you might want to add it now before the cycle finishes.


----------



## clekchau

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> What substrate are you going to use? Also you might want to add it now before the cycle finishes.


really? ugh i didn't plan on getting it until next weekend, just a medium light color river rock, sand is out of the question because of the acrylic tank. what do you recommend? honestly i didn't think the cycle would go so fast, what would happen if i added it after it finished cycling, just an ammonia bloom? i'm not in that big of a rush to put fish due to budget reasons.

thanks frank


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

I don't think much will happen but you defiantly want the substrate to be cycled. Some nice different size's of rock and gravel would be nice. All different shape's, size's and color's. Just to make sure you know, if you cycle the tank and don't add fish you will still need to continue to toss some ammonia in so the cycle never die's off.


----------



## clekchau

yes got it thanks, i'm already adding more ammonia since nitrites are starting to show and go up, i just didn't think it would be so soon.


----------



## clekchau

also, talking to manzman to order a huge long piece of driftwood, should be interesting what he comes up with


----------



## clekchau

well i think i'm about halfway into the fishless cycle, regarding stocking i talked to both jeff rapps and gage at cichlid connection and they indicated i should be ok starting with sub adult males. gage said anything over 4" he can vent or sex by appearance if its a male. so that makes it alot easier to get 4-8" subadults, about 20 total fish and let them grow up and weed out any potential trouble makers down to about 12 fish, any opinions on this?

here is the list i'm contemplating on getting:

Tangled up in Cichlids:
chancho 
sagittae
trimaculatus 
xiloaensis 
red Isletas
friedrichsthalli 
synspilus 
labiatus white w/ red

Cichlid Connection: 
amarillo
lyonsi 
godmanni 
bocourti Lago de Izabal
carpintis Vontehillo turquoise lg. spot
pearsei Rio Zapote
loisellei 'guapote amarillo' 
fenestratus 'blue/red head' 
hartwegi 'red freckle cichlid'
bifasciatus 'red speck cichlid' 
maculacauda 'black belt cichlid' 
zonatus 'mojarra prieta' 
argentea 'pepper cichlid' 
regani 'gold back'

that is a total of 22 4" to 8" males to grow out, anyone see an issue with this?


----------



## rtirado

Beatiful Tank and I like the stock you have selected so far, I hope theres going to be 80 or so more to follow in that list?

Super jealous though :thumb:


----------



## chinds78

Any updated pics of your setup?


----------



## clekchau

well... not much has changed, still going thru fishless cycle should be done next week. i will probably go get some big rocks and river rock as the substrate, still deciding on this.

here is the last pic/tank shot i took while i was adjusting/testing the led settings










will update this weekend after i put the rocks in.


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

Nice, are you going to get a piece of plywood or sheet metal to cover the sump and everything under the tank?


----------



## clekchau

yes some time down the line plan to enclose the bottom area and build a custom canopy out of wood. the next initiative after all the fish are in is to build a 24/7 automatic water changer drip system, but i'll let the bio filter get established first and fish settle down, probably two months.


----------



## rtirado

I am still fairly new at this, but didn't you need some form of substrate down during the fishless cycle for some of the bacteria to cling onto?


----------



## Dominateprimate

WOW! Everything IS bigger in Texas!


----------



## cantrell00

rtirado said:


> I am still fairly new at this, but didn't you need some form of substrate down during the fishless cycle for some of the bacteria to cling onto?


His bio-media is colonizing the bacteria in the sump. Although, it does poulate in substrate too.


----------



## rtirado

Yea I figured the Bio-Balls did quite a lot of the work, just wasn't sure if substrate was necessary or not.


----------



## clekchau

rtirado said:


> I am still fairly new at this, but didn't you need some form of substrate down during the fishless cycle for some of the bacteria to cling onto?


there are 15 gallons of bio balls in the wet dry below


----------



## clekchau

i just bought some river rock substrate and bigger rocks , they will deliver tomorrow, will take some pics

also getting ready to order the following to be delivered friday nov 11th, all males:
lyonsi 5" 
carpintis Vontehillo 5" 
pearsi 6-7 
Bifascitus 5" 
Zonatus 4" 
Jag 3.5-4" 
Cuban 4-5" 
Amarillo 4" 
chancho 10Ã¢â‚¬Â


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

clekchau said:


> i'm excited but nervous


I bet u r! But i'm jealous!


----------



## clekchau

rtirado said:


> Yea I figured the Bio-Balls did quite a lot of the work, just wasn't sure if substrate was necessary or not.


it does almost all the work in terms of biological filteration. alot of people have bare bottom tanks , i was never a fan of that though.


----------



## Dominateprimate

are you going to be adding some sort of substrate then?


----------



## clekchau

Dominateprimate said:


> are you going to be adding some sort of substrate then?


Yes will post pics this weekend


----------



## clekchau

clekchau said:


> Dominateprimate said:
> 
> 
> 
> are you going to be adding some sort of substrate then?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes will post pics this weekend
Click to expand...

rocks and substrate (small river rock) are here:









i think it looks nice, will see once its in the tank and its clear









will spend weekend rinsing and decorating :thumb:


----------



## clekchau

just bought some driftwood which is in route via a greyhound bus 

check it out 50"x26"x22"


----------



## Chubbs the Jellybean

clekchau said:


> just bought some driftwood which is in route via a greyhound bus
> 
> check it out 50"x26"x22"


Amazing! Wish I had a tank that could fit driftwood that large!


----------



## Steve C

That tank is so big you could have just cut down a tree from your yard to use as driftwood :lol: :wink:

Looking forward to seeing the wood and rocks in it!


----------



## clekchau

ok finally rinsed all the substrate, washed rocks really good and put it in the tank, that was a chore! tank is kindof cloudy still as expected, hopefully will clear up in a day or so, i have those blue filterpads to help but i should have put some purigen in filtersocks, didn't think of that but just ordered it.


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

:drooling:  :drooling:

Ok now it your own personal lake! LOL! I really like the pebble's and boulder's!


----------



## JimA

Put some jets in there and you will have yourself a hot tub :lol: Glad they were just "small river" rock . Wouldn't want you to strain yourself


----------



## chinds78

Did you have to pay for any of your decor or was it all free?


----------



## clekchau

led shimmer looks cool on the new substrate 8)

impatiently waiting for it to clear :zz:


----------



## clekchau

chinds78 said:


> Did you have to pay for any of your decor or was it all free?


bought it at a landscaping/rock place in town, total was $150.


----------



## chinds78

Not bad for all that rockwork.


----------



## Dominateprimate

i agree! that was a great price for what you got. that is a mighty big cloud though!


----------



## dsouthworth

I'm just thinking of how painful this will be if you ever need to vacuum the substrate..
Best of luck to you. :thumb:


----------



## chinds78

Dominateprimate said:


> i agree! that was a great price for what you got. that is a mighty big cloud though!


It will dissipate given enough time. Though you may have to do a few ater chagnes first to get al the crud from the rocks and substrate completely removed.


----------



## clekchau

i can easily do a huge water change (80%) but won't that disrupt the fishless cycle currently going on or should it be ok???


----------



## zimmy

clekchau said:


> i can easily do a huge water change (80%) but won't that disrupt the fishless cycle currently going on or should it be ok???


Since you've started your fishless cycle, don't do any major water changes (20-25% is the maximum). It's best just to be patient with the cloud and let it clear up on it's own.

What are your ammonia and nitrite readings 24 hours after dosing with ammonia at this point?

Your tank is really amazing. :thumb:


----------



## clekchau

zimmy said:


> clekchau said:
> 
> 
> 
> i can easily do a huge water change (80%) but won't that disrupt the fishless cycle currently going on or should it be ok???
> 
> 
> 
> Since you've started your fishless cycle, don't do any major water changes (20-25% is the maximum). It's best just to be patient with the cloud and let it clear up on it's own.
> 
> What are your ammonia and nitrite readings 24 hours after dosing with ammonia at this point?
> 
> Your tank is really amazing. :thumb:
Click to expand...

It's actually finished, would doing a huge water change disrupt the bacteria on the bioballs?


----------



## cantrell00

clekchau said:


> zimmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> clekchau said:
> 
> 
> 
> i can easily do a huge water change (80%) but won't that disrupt the fishless cycle currently going on or should it be ok???
> 
> 
> 
> Since you've started your fishless cycle, don't do any major water changes (20-25% is the maximum). It's best just to be patient with the cloud and let it clear up on it's own.
> 
> What are your ammonia and nitrite readings 24 hours after dosing with ammonia at this point?
> 
> Your tank is really amazing. :thumb:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's actually finished, would doing a huge water change disrupt the bacteria on the bioballs?
Click to expand...

Shouldn't.


----------



## little_b10

that tank is simply amazing, can't wait to see more.


----------



## clekchau

picked up wood from greyhound express package, wow it came in a big box









good size even compared to the big tank









am i supposed to soak it or anything or just put it in? i can submerge it in my pool i guess, feedback?


----------



## KGilly20

I would soak it for about a week before putting it in the tank to prevent it from clouding the water.
I would not suggest the pool being that there is chlorine in the water. I would soak it in a kiddie pool or another tank (not in use of course). Being that it looks pretty large it might be hard to find something to soak it in. On another note.....where did you get the wood and what species?


----------



## clekchau

manzanita from manzman

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... et-1-free-)-So-cal-ship-pu-92882

i don't have a big kiddie pool or anything like that, ugh what do i do ? what will happen to the tank, just cloud it up? it's already kind of cloudy from the river rock :x maybe it will simulate the murky water the ca cichlids come from


----------



## KGilly20

I've never really heard of the cloudiness from driftwood effecting the water para. So i don't think it would harm the fish. Just my own opinion, i would never put unsoaked driftwood in my tank. I would wait for more responses and opinions.


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

The wood will leach tannin's and it will lower the PH of the tank.


----------



## clekchau

even manzanita? i don't know how i'm going to soak it, its kinda big.


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

Ask your friend if you can borrow to hot tub for the month! lol


----------



## Steve C

How about a kiddie pool from a local Wally world? they are only about $15-$20. With as much money as this build has invested in it whats another $15-$20


----------



## clekchau

i don't think wally world sells it as its out of season but i will check. what about a bathtub ? lol


----------



## Steve C

Would it fit in a large plastic trash can? if so that would hold water. How about putting a tarp in the bed of that pickup and doing a ******* hot tub..soak it in there :lol:


----------



## clekchau

lol you serious never thought of that you are creative. i think it will fit in one of those big trash cans, i'm going to go to the 24 hour wally world and find something.


----------



## Dominateprimate

The big trash can is a good idea for a piece of this size. You definitely want to soak it for a good while though. I soaked my driftwood for my 55 for 3 weeks on a different load of water every day and the water still kept turning brown. I put it in my tank and It was 3 weeks and 3 50% water changes later before the water started cleaning up. I'd be careful and soak it longer than you think.

Lookin good! :thumb:

always excited to read this thread opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:


----------



## clekchau

ok well its soaking in trash can now, thanks for the idea!

i did some more research and checked with the seller who primarily sells to aquarium people and he indicated manzanita does not leach tannings that much like the other types of driftwood and with a tank this big would probably not be able to tell but i'm not taking chances, soaking for a few days or so.

fish come friday.... a little nervous lol


----------



## Dominateprimate

I would be to with such a stock! It's always great to check this thread over and over again. You basically have an elevated pond! :lol: :lol:


----------



## chinds78

Can't wait to see the tank with the fish in there.


----------



## aaronfeeney

How did the fish shipment go? Would love to see pics of the new stock.


----------



## clekchau

great , alot of fish 










tank is still kind of cloudy after i added the wood i guess i didn't soak it long enough but there is no major fighiting just the occasional flaring and chasing for a second or so... knock on wood


----------



## clekchau

12" male argentea also have a 10" female they have spawned before , she's the only female in the tank lol


----------



## clekchau

beautifully marked amphilophus labiatus about 9 "


----------



## clekchau

amphilophus sagittae with the pair of argentea, he's a big boy too about 9 "



















him and the labiatus are weird they school and are friends one minute then flare at each other the next lol maybe they are frenemies?


----------



## clekchau

my favorite of the group a 10.5 inch male chancho this guy has so much personality and great markings


----------



## clekchau

somewhat full tank shot, i'll post more pictures of the other smaller males later, i got 20 or so fish total kind of in a daze trying to identify them all lol.










what's the best way to make the water more crisp, carbon? i am running purigen and floss now, filter bags are out since i have a drip tray. i guess i can move the uv from my saltwater to this tank until it clears, will that help?


----------



## clekchau

oh my other favorite, vieja synspillum male, about 9 inches too, coloring up nicely after a day


----------



## clekchau

cool shot of the frenemies


----------



## chinds78

What region/lake are your fish from?


----------



## clekchau

chinds78 said:


> What region/lake are your fish from?


They are central american cichlids.


----------



## Steve C

Driftwood looks really good in there. I'm not real familiar with Central American species but those look really nice.


----------



## chinds78

Ok, cool. Never heard of lot of the species so that's why i was wondering.

Are you going to add live plants as well?


----------



## clekchau

i doubt live plants will live with these guys lol

i am probably going to put some fake plants to set up more zones to gid rid of more lines of sights. the peace lasted about a day and then the big chancho got a little restless and was chasing some of the fish, i put him in time out and the peace has been restored... for now lol

water is still cloudy, should i put the filler from pillow stuffing in i heard that helps clear the water?


----------



## chinds78

Oh, didn't know those were plant eating species. You can get some really nice looking live plants tho.


----------



## blackedout

not only would they prob eat them, but they would dig them up constantly. the roots would never have a chance.


----------



## ahud

Tank looks really really nice. I like your choices with fish as well, but for goodness sakes throw a convict pair in there :lol:

Any regrets so far with the fish you chose?


----------



## clekchau

ahud said:


> Tank looks really really nice. I like your choices with fish as well, but for goodness sakes throw a convict pair in there :lol:
> 
> Any regrets so far with the fish you chose?


probably green terror he's the only sa cichlid and a little out of place and suprisingly aggressive with all these bruisers in the tank. the vieja's haven't colored up fully yet, can't wait to see that happen. pearseii is a little shy, but he eats good and doesn't bother anyone nor does anyone bother him.

how long does it usually take to develop the pecking order, a day, a week, more? they bicker but no major fighting , just sporadic chasing.


----------



## cantrell00

clekchau said:


> ahud said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tank looks really really nice. I like your choices with fish as well, but for goodness sakes throw a convict pair in there :lol:
> 
> Any regrets so far with the fish you chose?
> 
> 
> 
> probably green terror he's the only sa cichlid and a little out of place and suprisingly aggressive with all these bruisers in the tank. the vieja's haven't colored up fully yet, can't wait to see that happen. pearseii is a little shy, but he eats good and doesn't bother anyone nor does anyone bother him.
> 
> how long does it usually take to develop the pecking order, a day, a week, more? they bicker but no major fighting , just sporadic chasing.
Click to expand...

With mbuna, could be 6-8 months if starting out with 1" juveniles... Obviously, this can vary in different species.

Are these guys of your mature? I don't know much about SA's, but if they are mature - I would think that you would see signs of aggression pretty quickly.

That being said, your tank is MUCH larger than what most people have - so your situation may be unique. Everything I just said could ultimately be wrong.. Due to the tank's size - you could never have any problems. Hard to say...


----------



## blackedout

post some update pics!


----------



## clekchau

cantrell00 said:


> clekchau said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ahud said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tank looks really really nice. I like your choices with fish as well, but for goodness sakes throw a convict pair in there :lol:
> 
> Any regrets so far with the fish you chose?
> 
> 
> 
> probably green terror he's the only sa cichlid and a little out of place and suprisingly aggressive with all these bruisers in the tank. the vieja's haven't colored up fully yet, can't wait to see that happen. pearseii is a little shy, but he eats good and doesn't bother anyone nor does anyone bother him.
> 
> how long does it usually take to develop the pecking order, a day, a week, more? they bicker but no major fighting , just sporadic chasing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With mbuna, could be 6-8 months if starting out with 1" juveniles... Obviously, this can vary in different species.
> 
> Are these guys of your mature? I don't know much about SA's, but if they are mature - I would think that you would see signs of aggression pretty quickly.
> 
> That being said, your tank is MUCH larger than what most people have - so your situation may be unique. Everything I just said could ultimately be wrong.. Due to the tank's size - you could never have any problems. Hard to say...
Click to expand...

some are mature 8-12", some are teenagers 4" to 6" males. aggression isn't too bad compared to when i had my mbuna tank.


----------



## sonofroderick

thats going to be one AMAZING African tank ! Please post pics when its full of fish


----------



## rtirado

sonofroderick said:


> thats going to be one AMAZING African tank ! Please post pics when its full of fish


lol, did you read any of that thread before you posted? go back two pages and look at all the Central American fish that are already in there, haha. :roll:


----------



## cantrell00

clekchau said:


> cantrell00 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> clekchau said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ahud said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tank looks really really nice. I like your choices with fish as well, but for goodness sakes throw a convict pair in there :lol:
> 
> Any regrets so far with the fish you chose?
> 
> 
> 
> probably green terror he's the only sa cichlid and a little out of place and suprisingly aggressive with all these bruisers in the tank. the vieja's haven't colored up fully yet, can't wait to see that happen. pearseii is a little shy, but he eats good and doesn't bother anyone nor does anyone bother him.
> 
> how long does it usually take to develop the pecking order, a day, a week, more? they bicker but no major fighting , just sporadic chasing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With mbuna, could be 6-8 months if starting out with 1" juveniles... Obviously, this can vary in different species.
> 
> Are these guys of your mature? I don't know much about SA's, but if they are mature - I would think that you would see signs of aggression pretty quickly.
> 
> That being said, your tank is MUCH larger than what most people have - so your situation may be unique. Everything I just said could ultimately be wrong.. Due to the tank's size - you could never have any problems. Hard to say...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> some are mature 8-12", some are teenagers 4" to 6" males. aggression isn't too bad compared to when i had my mbuna tank.
Click to expand...

Not surprising. I read a sig in someone's profile on here that read, "if mbuna were humans, they would be terrorists"

Probably not far from the truth.. Ha!


----------



## clekchau

rtirado said:


> sonofroderick said:
> 
> 
> 
> thats going to be one AMAZING African tank ! Please post pics when its full of fish
> 
> 
> 
> lol, did you read any of that thread before you posted? go back two pages and look at all the Central American fish that are already in there, haha. :roll:
Click to expand...

lol funny, i think this forum in general has african cichlid enthusiast lol i might set up a mbuna tank someday they are really cool fish and easy to keep.


----------



## clekchau

with such a big bioload i got the equipment for setting up an automatic water changer (diluter) system:










this will run the water thru a filter guys chloramine filter thru four 2gph drip emittors. that translates to 8 gallons an hour, 192 gallons a day, 1344 gallons a week. I have a total system volume of 800 gallons so that translates to changing/diluting 168% of the water a week.

since the sump is three feet below the ground, i put a little giant vertical float switch, when the water level gets to a certain point in the sump and pushes the float to the trigger, a mag7 will pump the water to a drain.

Do you think this is too much? The only thing I'm worried about is the temperature but with this large of a tank I don't see it as an issue, I'm going to set it up tomorrow night and test it out.


----------



## clekchau

also got another big piece of driftwood, this one is like a log type, this time i'm letting it soak for a week lol


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

WOW! Nice! :drooling:


----------



## Chubbs the Jellybean

I can't wait to see the results of you setting up that Auto-WC system!


----------



## quentin8

hows the automatic water changer working so far?


----------



## Vadimshevchuk

Beautiful fish and driftwood :thumb: Since the tank is more river themed, why didnt you go with sand to make it look natural? Also You could have used UGJ system with powerheads to eliminate waste on the bottom. Looks great still!


----------



## clekchau

Vadimshevchuk said:


> Beautiful fish and driftwood :thumb: Since the tank is more river themed, why didnt you go with sand to make it look natural? Also You could have used UGJ system with powerheads to eliminate waste on the bottom. Looks great still!


this tank had a bad experience with sand when it was a saltwater system for 8 years, one of the reasons it was scratched so bad and i had to buff it out. if it was up to me i would leave it bare bottom but it looked funny.


----------



## clekchau

auto change system is working well, i will take pics tomorrow, only thing i forgot was in case of a power failure it would flood, so i'm getting a soleniod that will close the flow when the electricity goes out.

here is the latest full tank shot









the big boys coming up to eat









my wife's favorite fish , foot long argentea, beautiful silver with blue eyes


----------



## clekchau

10" jaguar, he's so mellow he never has chased or flared up on anyone









beautiful bifa male about 5", he's going to be a stunner









green terror i rescued from a friend, poor fish was in a very dirty 30 gallon probably stunted lol


----------



## clekchau

young creamsicle amphilophus xilo with a red islestes in the background









young male freddy about 4", starting to color up









zonatus about 5.5" already showing some blue









pearseii, these guys are supposed to be mellow so i was worried putting him in with these bruisers but he holds his own very well









nicely colored male hartwegi about 4"


----------



## clekchau

my new favorite wet pet, the 9" saggittae he recognizes me and follows me, begs etc, starting to develop a hump


----------



## clekchau

i need to learn to take better pictures with my iphone 4gs, any suggestions?


----------



## skurj

leave it in your pocket and try a camera +)


----------



## theyangman

Thats absolutely amazing. Super jealous, and wishing the wife would let me go that big. I had to do some SERIOUS convincing to move to a 180...


----------



## clekchau

amphilophus alfari 5" fat male, looks like a blackbelt kinda, gage threw it in as the boccourti i ordered was not available, nice blue sheen in the light









3.5" male trimac, mean for such a small size, if he keeps getting attitude with size will probably rehome him but a cool fish









4" lyonsi, pretty cool fish explores every inch of the tank









3.5" male grammodes really cool and spunky fish, already has a little hump and color for such a small size, above is the male 6" red islestes who has a nice hump going on









4.5" dark and really cool black belt, the guy is really laid back and a big pig, i heard they were aggressive but the pearseii is way more aggressive go figure









4" amarillo cool fish that was an extra i guess









4.5" really nicely colored male carpintis vontehillo he seems to color up more and more daily


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

NICE!


----------



## clekchau

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> NICE!


thanks man, i need to get a real camera i guess.

here is my latest attemp at a fts


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

I really like it, so is it all male's? or what?


----------



## clekchau

all males except the female argentea, i got them as a pair


----------



## KGilly20

Having such big fish make a 600 gallon look small :? But i really like it :thumb:


----------



## clekchau

haha yeah the fts is a little decieving because the tank is 4 feet wide, they are on one side of the tank looking for food whenever i come to the tank. during normal times, it does not look so crowded as they are all over the place.


----------



## Dominateprimate

KGilly20 said:


> Having such big fish make a 600 gallon look small :? But i really like it :thumb:


So right! I thought the same thing. At first glance it looks like it could be a 220 0r something of the sort.


----------



## clekchau

really like the red islestes too, he's getting chunky and his hump has grown a little since i got him, he doesn't roam the tank like the other amphilophus but sticks to his territory, kind of cool










little male trimac about 3.5" he's pretty mean for his size moreso than any of the other amphilophus









little male grammodes is a beauty 3.5" already has a little hump going, he explores the entire tank always on the move, reminds me of a mbuna


----------



## clekchau

the carpintis vontehillo colors just amaze me every day, i used to have a texas cichlid back in the day (15 years ago) and i don't remember his colors being so bright, granted filteration & lighting have come a long ways  unfortunately my photography skills haven't kept up with the times :x










ok i think i've overloaded this thread with pictures for the week lol


----------



## ahud

They all look good IMO. Nice fish. My favorite by far is the argentea pair, gorgeous.

I still say a pair of cons will make that tank a blast to watch lol :thumb: :thumb:


----------



## beachtan

You probably said earlier, but the thread is so many pages... where did you get the wooden branches - find it yourself? did you have to sanitize it somehow? I need a large piece like that for an office display tank and cant find one big enough in a store... :roll:


----------



## clekchau

beachtan said:


> You probably said earlier, but the thread is so many pages... where did you get the wooden branches - find it yourself? did you have to sanitize it somehow? I need a large piece like that for an office display tank and cant find one big enough in a store... :roll:


http://www.manzanita-driftwood.com/Manzanita.html

just wash it off real good, will release a little tannin so you could soak it. (sp)


----------



## clekchau

with continous drip of cold water, my temps starting to drop to 76 degrees at night even with 4 ebo jaeger 300 watt heaters running full blast, so i bought 2 1000 watt jehmco heaters with a temperature controller that will handle 2400 watts. these things feel solid!


----------



## luvplantsnfish

Wow I have spent a good chunk of the morning reading this whole thread! Your tank is awesome! I love the way it has come along it looks really nice.


----------



## lokipeacocks

luvplantsnfish said:


> Wow I have spent a good chunk of the morning reading this whole thread! Your tank is awesome! I love the way it has come along it looks really nice.


Same here been reading for for awhile. All I can say wow!!! what a nice tank!


----------



## lokipeacocks




----------



## griffk

[email protected]$*&$#@@#$#believable tank!


----------



## clekchau

Thanks for all the comments everyone 

I'll try to update this thread every so often with new pics, here are recent ones:

Veija Argentea 12" and Veija Synspilum 9.5" coloring up nicely









Another pic of Synspilum









Orange Saum green terror I rescued he is a big pig, about 6"









Dark male Amphilophus Amarillo 4" starting to get a small hump









Blackbelt male 5" that has a cool blue sheen to his body









Veija Zonatus and Heterospila (I think) facing off









The creamsicle red devil labiatus probably best looking in the tank









Latest Full tank shot


----------



## jimmie

clekchau said:


> ok i want some active fish , what about haps, peacocks and mbuna?


go with haps and peacocks and yellow labs


----------



## clekchau

jimmie said:


> clekchau said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok i want some active fish , what about haps, peacocks and mbuna?
> 
> 
> 
> go with haps and peacocks and yellow labs
Click to expand...

lol dude a little too late now...


----------



## jimmie

hahahaha I see now I just started reading the topic hahahaha :lol: :fish: u think you go over try the canopy show case look for as hiding the wirers ,lighting an all. :wink:


----------



## clekchau

eventually yes, will probably build a canopy and cover the stand, right now i'm trying to get the auto water changer, heating and mechanical filter sorted out, and also rehoming some fish that are a little too territorial, gotta love cichlids


----------



## jimmie

clekchau said:


> eventually yes, will probably build a canopy and cover the stand, right now i'm trying to get the auto water changer, heating and mechanical filter sorted out, and also rehoming some fish that are a little too territorial, gotta love cichlids


o ok i hear ya,,well if u would have haps cichlids the territoral wouldn't be so bad 8)


----------



## clekchau

jimmie said:


> clekchau said:
> 
> 
> 
> eventually yes, will probably build a canopy and cover the stand, right now i'm trying to get the auto water changer, heating and mechanical filter sorted out, and also rehoming some fish that are a little too territorial, gotta love cichlids
> 
> 
> 
> o ok i hear ya,,well if u would have haps cichlids the territoral wouldn't be so bad 8)
Click to expand...

maybe someday


----------



## spotmonster

I have to say, when I saw the gravel and rocks you chose I thought you had made a mistake. But now that it's done, I LOVE it! I've wanted to do a tank like that with wood and larger sa fish.

To start out with adults like that, I have to ask, what did that truck load of fish cost you? You can politely refuse to say if you want, 

I am a big african guy like most everyone on this forum, so I have no idea what SA cost as comparison. I don't even buy adult africans unless they are auction prices.


----------



## ahud

In general, CA and SA fish cost much less since the majority of them have tons of fry.


----------



## clekchau

thanks spotmaster i'm still tweaking the aquascaping a bit.

ahud i found that to be the case too , especially adult haps and peacocks. i still want an all male peacock/hap tank someday, maybe sooner than later  in the meantime i'm loving these cichlids.

here is the latest, rehomed a few fish due to aggression and just to make a little more room


----------



## jimmie

yeah the sa an ca is pretty cool,but if u want your tank really to pop,nice big colorful haps in good also.  :fish:


----------



## clekchau

jimmie said:


> yeah the sa an ca is pretty cool,but if u want your tank really to pop,nice big colorful haps in good also.  :fish:


thanks for your opinion, i think big ca cichlids 'pop' also hence the reason i went this route 

i also have a 550 gallon in wall saltwater fowlr that is really colorful.


----------



## chinds78

clekchau said:


> jimmie said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah the sa an ca is pretty cool,but if u want your tank really to pop,nice big colorful haps in good also.  :fish:
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for your opinion, i think big ca cichlids 'pop' also hence the reason i went this route
> 
> i also have a 550 gallon in wall saltwater fowlr that is really colorful.
Click to expand...

Oooh, you gotta post pics of your saltwater tank!


----------



## Dominateprimate

agreed! We have a 120 ref that we're getting back into the swing oif things with as well.


----------



## jimmie

yeah I understand that about reef,I had a reef tank. :thumb:


----------



## clekchau

chinds78 said:


> clekchau said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jimmie said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah the sa an ca is pretty cool,but if u want your tank really to pop,nice big colorful haps in good also.  :fish:
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for your opinion, i think big ca cichlids 'pop' also hence the reason i went this route
> 
> i also have a 550 gallon in wall saltwater fowlr that is really colorful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oooh, you gotta post pics of your saltwater tank!
Click to expand...

i don't want to clutter up this thread with saltwater pics but if you go to the first page of my blog there are alot of pictures of the entire setup including moving a 550 gallon all glass aquarium thru a window lol

www.clekchau.com


----------



## dunesnstars

Wow! Great looking tank!


----------



## chinds78

Yes, very nice!

You should post a video of your SA tank when you're satisfied with how it looks.


----------



## clekchau

here is a quick iphone video, fish have developed a hiearchy but it seems to change weekly since the majority are growing, some faster than others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZroVSm6h ... er&list=UL


----------



## dgaddis1

Awesome setup man! Love that's viewable from 3 sides, love the rocks and wood, and the fish (obviously). The algae on the driftwood looks really nice too.

Have you considered adding a catfish or two?

Color me jealous


----------



## tim_s

Wow!~ Amazing!


----------



## clekchau

dgaddis1 said:


> Awesome setup man! Love that's viewable from 3 sides, love the rocks and wood, and the fish (obviously). The algae on the driftwood looks really nice too.
> 
> Have you considered adding a catfish or two?
> 
> Color me jealous


hi thanks man. i have a raphel catfish but he is like a ghost he only comes out every now and then, i wish i could put more but i don't know what to put. i thought about putting clown loaches but they get pricey above 4" and i need a school of 6 or so.


----------



## ranchialex

What a tank. Makes my 107gallon mbuna tank looks like a goldfish bowl 

No oscars in the tank? I clearly know little about NW Cichlids, but I do like me some oscars.


----------



## clekchau

ranchialex said:


> What a tank. Makes my 107gallon mbuna tank looks like a goldfish bowl
> 
> No oscars in the tank? I clearly know little about NW Cichlids, but I do like me some oscars.


thanks , i don't think oscars would last with these guys lol


----------



## dgaddis1

clekchau said:


> hi thanks man. i have a raphel catfish but he is like a ghost he only comes out every now and then, i wish i could put more but i don't know what to put.


I have a raphael too, and aparently he's odd lol. Mine was like yours (and most others from what I've read) for about a year or so, hid under his log when the lights were on, would sometimes come out in the dark, and when food was dropped in the tank, but I rarely saw him.

But then, all of a sudden and for no apparent reason, he changed, he's out all the time now!! He NEVER hides anymore. Cruises the tank when the lights are on, and when he does feel like just sitting around he sits in the front corner of the tank, with no cover whatsoever. He'll eat out of my hand too :thumb:


----------



## clekchau

3 month update

xilo and labiatus seemed to have paired up, i was told they were both males but i guess not, they even bit me while i was cleaning the tank and left a scar/drew a little blood


















my favorite vieja , bifa









mystrey fish has grown a bit, i still don't know what kind of vieja this is, rapps says its a blackbelt but it doesn't look anything like my other black belt









rare shot at raphael catfish, he rarely comes out during the day









fastest grower is the zonatus, he's really mean too









amarillo getting a little hump, he's still small and cute (about 4 inches)









argentea still the boss of the tank









slow grower but still awesome carpintis









alfari getting good color and streamers









trimac getting bigger, he used to be real aggressive but has settled down a little


----------



## bzartler86

With the size of this tank you can have a really nice red tail cat. They are very out going and full of energy I wish I had the tank size for a red tail they are in my opinion the best looking catfish. They will eat right out of your hand. I love the red devils you have, I have one that looks just like that they are awesome fish to keep. My Jag and Devil runs my tank.


----------



## dgaddis1

bzartler86 said:


> With the size of this tank you can have a really nice red tail cat. They are very out going and full of energy I wish I had the tank size for a red tail they are in my opinion the best looking catfish. They will eat right out of your hand. I love the red devils you have, I have one that looks just like that they are awesome fish to keep. My Jag and Devil runs my tank.


It's a big tank, but not big enough for a redtail cat. They get big. REALLY big. Four to five feet long, over 100lbs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redtail_catfish


----------



## bzartler86

dgaddis1 said:


> bzartler86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the size of this tank you can have a really nice red tail cat. They are very out going and full of energy I wish I had the tank size for a red tail they are in my opinion the best looking catfish. They will eat right out of your hand. I love the red devils you have, I have one that looks just like that they are awesome fish to keep. My Jag and Devil runs my tank.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a big tank, but not big enough for a redtail cat. They get big. REALLY big. Four to five feet long, over 100lbs.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redtail_catfish
Click to expand...

lol ok I guess you're right!!!!!


----------



## Hatter

Haha. Haven't been around in a while and saw this thread and started reading and was like :dancing: Yay!!! Hap/Peacock 600 gallon tank!!!! I read on getting more and more and more excited and then came to the post where op mentioned he was thinking about CA cichlids and literally yelled out loud NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  MY girl looked up at me and asked what was wrong and I just shook my head and said I needed a minute. Told her I was heartbroken.

Haha. The last pages just weren't as fun to read as the first half.

With that said,congrats on the stunningly beautiful tank. I personally just can't wait till you get sick of those CAs and go back to your original idea LOL.


----------



## clekchau

Hatter said:


> Haha. Haven't been around in a while and saw this thread and started reading and was like :dancing: Yay!!! Hap/Peacock 600 gallon tank!!!! I read on getting more and more and more excited and then came to the post where op mentioned he was thinking about CA cichlids and literally yelled out loud NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  MY girl looked up at me and asked what was wrong and I just shook my head and said I needed a minute. Told her I was heartbroken.
> 
> Haha. The last pages just weren't as fun to read as the first half.
> 
> With that said,congrats on the stunningly beautiful tank. I personally just can't wait till you get sick of those CAs and go back to your original idea LOL.


hahaha i understand, i have no regrets as i love these ca cichlids but i do think of what it could have been as a hap/peacock tank. i'm a bit attached to the ca's so i don't think i will go back to the original idea but you never know


----------

