# bloat has struck



## KoenEeckhoudt (Oct 28, 2007)

Hey guys...

I noticed one or two dubs not eating. I kept a very close eye on them, and I saw a little white feces.

I have concluded that at least one of they has become a victim of bloat.

I have started treatment of the whole tank, as soon as I was "sure" about my case.

Now, a question... is there a possibility that I DON'T lose all of my beloved trophs? The vast majority of the bunch is still eating like a pig, and even the one with the qhite things coming out of his behind, is still quite vivid... He's not sitting in a corner or anything.. just swimming between the other ones, and at this time eating a bit, but spitting it back out.

I've did a water change of about 40% and added JBL Furamol to the tank. It has it colored all ugly yellow 

Anywayz... I'm just seeking some comfort in people telling me that I actually stand a chance of conquering this thing...


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## KoenEeckhoudt (Oct 28, 2007)

mods, please move to the Ilness section if you feel that's more appropriate...


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

I don't know what furamol is, but metro has worked for me in the past. I have had a fish not eat or spit food, I treated with metro until they were all eating again. If you have a fish that is not looking good at all, pull it out, put it in a seperate tank and treat with clout. Clout has not failed me yet but, I have never treated an entire grop with it.


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## KoenEeckhoudt (Oct 28, 2007)

is there a scientific name for Clout as well? Or another name, with wich I could find it here, in the drugstore or whatever?

Thx, 
Koen.


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

Also, I know that this might be hard, but try to abstain from feeding while treating your tank.


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## KoenEeckhoudt (Oct 28, 2007)

hmmz... other people on the net recommend to soak some spirulina flakes in the mads you're treating with, to help it get into their internals? So much information, don't know what to do anymore, just hoping that it'll go away the way I'm doing it


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

No idea what "Mads" is, but you can soak food in metro if they will eat it, but with clout it is a good idea not to feed while treating... Everyone's opinions will be different though, this is just what works for me... In the two years I have been keeping trophs, I have only had to deal with bloat twice. Once when I first got trophs and again on one batch of fry... First time I lost 3 of 10 second time 2 of 15... THe second time was my fault, because I bleached a filter and don't think I rinsed it good enough... The first time was me just being a noob a feeding them like malawies!


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

I do soak the food in metro when I use it but, it doesn't seem to absorb it really. What I do is, soak the food in the amount suggested to treat the whole tank. ie: 1/4 tsp per 40 gal. (3/4 tsp per 120 gal tank). I would actually just go with a full teaspoon. when you dump it in, there is a cloud of meds that the fish all swim through and hopefully, ingest. I don't know the active ingredient in clout, maybe malachite green, metro is metronidazole. Act fast and you might not loose a single fish. (do you know who Emile Mpenza is)? 8)


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## KoenEeckhoudt (Oct 28, 2007)

thanks for the tips.

I've seen the metro advice coming back as well. I'll get some today and try that as well. The only thing is, I don't know if it should be used toghether with the Furanol I'm treating with right now? Don't want to make things worse then they are today 

Thx, 
Koen


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## Jolene Silver (Jul 19, 2008)

how are they doing?


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## KoenEeckhoudt (Oct 28, 2007)

at this time, all are doing quite well... None is hanging in a corner, or just waggling at the top of the water...

I'm gonna try feeding them a little bit in a few hours, to see if they're eating again.. no more white feces either, as far as I can tell...

Fingers still crossed though.


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## katytropheus (Jul 13, 2008)

I am looking into jumping back into the tropheus arena. I love the breed but my track record hasn't been stellar on keeping them alive. This time I am going tropheus only. One breed only. Don't try to add fish. Feed sparingly. Feed exactly what they are already on. Watch the heat in the tank. That being said, the heartbreaks come with the breed.

I probably have read 500 posts on bloat remedies. Here's what I am going with. If I can catch the sick fish, I am removing to a quarantine tank and Clouting as follows:

Day 1 Clout Full Strength
Day 2 No water change, Clout 1/2 strength
Day 3 Do nothing
Day 4 80% water change, Clout Full Strength
Day 5 Do nothing

Return to tank assuming they are eating and not throwing off white feces.

On a preventative in a tank, take a pinch of Metro powder and 4 tablespoons of tank water and add 1-2 tablespoons of pellet food and soak for 3-4 minutes and feed.

Supplement the Metro with Epsom Salt in the tank.

When you have a big tank, you can't dump a million Clout tablets in there every day--cost, strength of medicine and the silicone turns blue (not the end of the world obviously).

That Jungle Parsite Clear or Clean has Metro and a new additive--it's cheap and available. Decent results according to posters.

If anyone wants to weight in, please do so because I am ready to fasten seatbelt and jump back into tropheus.

Thanks.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

The only thing I would suggest Katy is, don't be feeding 1 - 2 tablespoons of any pellet to a group of trophs unless your group contains about 100 - 300 fish. I feed 3/4 teaspoon to about 50 fish, granted they're not fully grown but even still, that's a lot of food.


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## katytropheus (Jul 13, 2008)

Thanks, Noddy. Screwed up my tablespoon with teaspoon, on terms.


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## KoenEeckhoudt (Oct 28, 2007)

Right now, there are only 2 left with one of the symptoms: not eating. The 19 others are eating like pigs, and as far as I can tell, they're not spitting their food either. Two of the dubs however, are still not eating.

What is my best shot right now?

Take the 2 out, and put them in quarantine tank, to continue treatment there, and adding one more dose of metro to the big tank, and keep a close eye on it?

Or should I just leave the 2 in with the rest en keep on medicating the whole tank?

Is there any downside of treating with metro, to a healthy fish?

Thx, 
Koen


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

KoenEeckhoudt said:


> What is my best shot right now?...is there any downside of treating with metro, to a healthy fish?Thx, Koen


 there is no negative effect to treating metronidazole to non ill fish. if your tank were mine, i would consider adding metronidazole to their feed. i no longer bother to soak. metro is not water soluble, nor is my feed choice sponge like. i simply drop pure powdered metro into the water, with a reduced feed portion, and allow all to 'inhale' at will. first a bit of feed, to get their attention, then intermittently exchange feed with medication, and allow fish/water movement to mix both in suspension. crushing feed into smaller bits forces fish to consider taking in smaller particles, helping to assure intake of metro also. i find many 'ill' fish prefer to graze alone, so i dose enough metronidazole to assure some makes it to the floor. 
this way, metro gets effectively reintroduced every 6-10 hrs., i can better monitor ingestion success of all fish, and i can continue with regular water changes without 'loosing' my meds. treatment should carry on for 10-14 days. if results continue to worsen during this time, in particular, after day 5, it would be a safe assumption that an err in diagnosis is apparent. if only two fish, are refusing to eat for an extended period of time, conspecific issues should not be ruled out. HTH.


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## KoenEeckhoudt (Oct 28, 2007)

hmmz... one thing I don't quite get: the two fish that won't eat: they don't eat

So this means, that they're not ingesting any of the metro. Does that mean that my treatment at this time is useless for them?

Thx, 
Koen


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

KoenEeckhoudt said:


> ...So this means, that they're not ingesting any of the metro. Does that mean that my treatment at this time is useless for them?


 you will get mixed opinion on that. IMO, if metronidazole is not water soluble, then i cannot comprehend any other way for a fish to achieve adequate intake, than by direct ingestion. if only two fish were refusing all feed, i would Q them for a few days/week, with the hopes they will attempt intake while alone. care needs to be taken, to keep all chemistry similar, to avoid adding unknown complications to the experiment. i usually set up a substrate free side tank, with a sponge filter to hide under, and offer daily 50-70% w.c. sourced from the main tank. cycling is a non issue for the temporary housing of non eating fish, IMO. this type of success has occurred for me before, and adds confidence to blaming conspecific issues, prior to prescribing medication.
if after a few days/week alone, they still refuse to eat, or if others in the main tank follow suit, then i would return all to one tank, and start with a water soluble medication. like clout, for example. if they do indicate an interest to feed, while in Q, then offer them the 10 day metro treatment before attempting to reintroduce them. that time will also help them to rest. HTH.


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## KoenEeckhoudt (Oct 28, 2007)

thx for the explanation. I'll keep a close eye on them for now. If I see that their condition doesn't improve, I can maybe take them out, and put them in a 7.5 galoon nursery tank I have here...

Or would that be too small for 2 juvi dubs?


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

7.5 is pretty small, IMO, even if they are still within the inch mark. the objective is to make them comfortable, so they might relax enough to renew their appetite. i would try to source a container that offers a floor length near, or exceeding, 14" for both of them. add a sponge (for aeration, circulation, something to hide under) at each end in case they prefer to single out. 'tupperware' type storage containers offer many size varieties, all cheaper than a glass tank. HTH.


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## KoenEeckhoudt (Oct 28, 2007)

allright.

At this time, 20/21 are ok again, all eating and looking very healthy. No more wtringy white feces, and all very hungry at every time of day 

There is one however that I had to pull from the aquarium, which was doing a bit worse then the others.

I'm starting carbon filtering from today, to take out any metro left in the tank (in theory, metro only works for 8 hours, but just to make sure...  )

Now, the one fish that I pulled from the tank, is in a hospital tank. I know there's a big difference in opinions about how to introduce a single troph in a tank where there's an established hierarchy.

What's your point to this?

Should I take it back to the LFS? Should I just throw it in and hope for the best outcome? Should I re-decorate my tank, at the risk of stressing the others more then necessary?

Any tips are welcome 

Thx!
Koen.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

When you'r sure that the seperated fish is well, just chuck him back in at night, after the lights have been off for an hour or so.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

KoenEeckhoudt said:


> I know there's a big difference in opinions about how to introduce a single troph in a tank where there's an established hierarchy.
> 
> What's your point to this?


 IME, you return single males with no guarantee, and return females when spawn activities are low or dormant.


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