# detrius in tank water circulation and quality



## pennyc (Jun 8, 2014)

Hi guys

Sorry for the long winded title I really wasn't sure how to title this query,

We have lost 2 yellow labs to bloat in the last 10 days. Doing a big water change and catching the last ill looking fish we pulled out the rocks. A lot of detrius was settled on top of the rocks and it fell into the water during the water change.

I am not sure how much detrius is normal for a tank to have. We have an Eheim filter running which is over rated for the tank size and an airstone. The spray bar has probably not been doing a good enough job of breaking up the water surface due to its position we are changing that today. Also we are not feeding them for awhile and will cut down on the amount we were feeding which was as much as they could eat in 3 minutes each evening.

Can anyone give advice on how we can improve the job the filter is doing. Should we invest in a powerhead?

Any advice for us as newbies gratefully received. I have read the pins in the other titles but couldn't find the exact answer to this question.

Cheers


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

I have a good bit of hard scape in my tank and every "ish" two weeks I remove the rocks to a bucket and hook up a small pump to my siphon and stuff pillow stuffing in the larger part of the siphon and re circulate the water back to the tank. I also do the same setup, minus removing the rocks, every 3-5 days and vacum the gravel. As for making your filter more efficient I would suggest regular maintenance on it to make sure whatever media is in it stays free of clogging material. A strategically place powerhead will help and probably is the best choice. If you are losing fish then there is probably something else going wrong. Deitrus shouldn't have too much of an affect on the fish but depending on what and how long it is in there that will affect water parameters what are your water test results? Since you have an air stone reposition the spray bar downwards to also help circulate the water before buying the powerhead.

Pics of your tank will help us get a better understanding of how the tank is set up.

If I'm not mistaken malawi boat is caused by the fish coming to the surface to eat or to get oxygen or whatever other reason they might come to the surface for, they end up swallowing air and it remains in their bodies and can't be expelled because the can't burp or fart. I may be way off but that's how I understand it. Hopefully a fish doctor can better explain that part to you.

PS I fixed the title for you (punctuation goes a long way)


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

What sized tank and filter? Just because it's rated for a larger tank doesn't mean it's up to the job especially for a mbuna tank. Additional power heads can be useful for keeping detritus in motion so it ends up getting sucked up by the filter. What's your water change schedule? 
Also what type of food are you feeding


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## pennyc (Jun 8, 2014)

Hi It is a 180lt tank with an Eheim 2217 canister and we also have an airstone. 25% weekly water change. We mostly feed a flake food as recommended my the lfs but once a week a frozen cichlid food I think we were overfeeding as we fed each night as much as they could eat in 3 minutes.

Parameters

Temp 26.1
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 5
PH 7.8

KH and GH have not been measured for about a week so will need to retest tomorrow

Pics although it has had a rescape


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

As for the tank it is beautiful! Lots of rocks.

Suggestions:
1)ditch some rocks. Probably the ones on the left cause they are to square and are stacked high. Rocks, that high, tend to block water circulation and it negates the spraybar capabilities IMO.
2) As for the spray bar. Try moving it on the side pane to spray from left to right. If it doesn't fit move it more to the center and get a powerhead or circulation pump/wavemaker.
3) move the air stone to another spot that helps movement (example: spray bar on the left with air stone on the right) just find what works for you.
4) I feed sinking pellets to prevent them from taking in air. But again that's my take on bloat.
these are my suggestions . If that was at my house that's what I would do. BTW water parameters are perfect just keep up with weekly water changes and try to increase the water flow. first by aquascaping then by repositioning hardware then ,as a last resort, buy stuff.
if money isn't an issue get a powerhead prolly the quickest fix you can do but it may not be needed if you play with different ideas.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

I think you're on the right track. I believe definitely overfeeding. I'm a bit paranoid about overfeeding, I think, but I only feed mine for about 30 seconds to a minute. 3-4 pinches of 1mm sinking pellets. They float initially sometimes, and mine do occasionally splash the surface, but I don't have any bloat issues yet (knock on wood). My 2217 bar is on the side pane to blow down the tank, and that's a good suggestion. Also, during water changes, I first siphon off the sand surface where I know the poop gathers, then after that I try to stir up as much stuff as I can and then suck it out of the tank ( i have a water circulator from Hydor, I unhook it from its mount and blow water around and through my rockpiles.

I actually kind of like the big square rockpile, though I also like the same kind of rock throughout, so I'd either mix the rocks for a homogenous look, or replace one or the other pile. Somebody makes good point about blocking the circulation.

Your water parameters do seem to be spot on, so I would continue (I change 40-50% once a week), and reduce the feeding, that should help clear things up. I believe there is a good bloat article in the library here, if you've not already read it.

I have some flakes as well, but mine says that it won't sustain large fish. I dunno what the limit is on "large" fish, but I feel better feeding them 1mm pellets most nights because they get more food and the pellets are less messy. I do feed them flakes about twice a week, and they seem to love them, but the flakes do cloud the water a little. I'd suggest trying some sinking pellets if you're at the LFS anyhow. Good luck


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

Well I read the bloat article, thanks hose. I was wayyyyyyyyyy off


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## pennyc (Jun 8, 2014)

Thank you so much.

It has been re-scaped to lower the height of the rocks and the spray bar is now on the side and agitating the surface more so we are actually getting more current. I can see the fish sort of bobbing about in it now. Might invest in a powerhead as when the airstone was moved it did break a bit and it can't hurt to have it. Thinking to use it handheld as well each water change to go over the rocks and disturb any detrius so it gets taken out in the water change a bit more.

One more lab is looking a bit lethargic  hopefully he will perk up but the damage could be done. No marks on him just not very active.

Hopefully the deaths will stop and I can replace the lost labs and start over.

One thing my son noticed (he can see the tank from his bed) two yellows were chasing each other in a circle last night with one going after anothers tail. I would have thought at 5cm they were too small for much aggression. Thoughts?


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

Ask him if the one doing the chasing started shaking really violently after they were done chasing one another. If so the one chasing is a male and if the female, one being chased, accepts his "dance" you'll have babies in a couple weeks, hopefully.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

That's potentially spawning behavior, with the female dropping eggs, the male fertilizing them, and the female scooping them up as they go around in circles. The female will quit eating, because she's holding the eggs in her mouth. She'll get skinny, but will be ok, she will also be more skittish than usual, probably. The gestation period is something like 21-28 days. She'll naturally spit the live fry when she's ready. Plenty of other info floating around about what's maybe happening in your tank. Good luck and congrats!


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## pennyc (Jun 8, 2014)

He can't remember them doing anything except the circles. What age do they start breeding? These yellow
Labs are only 4-5cm? Would love if that was the reason


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

If I remember my conversion estimation correctly my two holding females were about that size when I noticed.


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## pennyc (Jun 8, 2014)

Well it is still listless but chases away any fish that come near. No marks on it at all and it appears otherwise healthy.
I have much to learn it would seem


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## pennyc (Jun 8, 2014)

Seems to be getting worse sitting on top of a rock panting very fast.

It is so strange all the other fish are active and hungry the yellows seem to be dying off one by one. There is one large yellow (by large about 1-1 1/2 cm bigger) I haven't seen any major aggression some circling and chasing.

I am lost as to what might be going on


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## somebody (May 13, 2014)

Did you completely remove the air stone? If so you might need to aerate the water a little. I don't know why it's only affecting that one and not all but it's worth a try. Other than that I'm stumped


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## pennyc (Jun 8, 2014)

The air stone is in there am off to buy a small
Powerhead today as well. Three have died the last one two days ago they are all ok at the minute. Just did a full test range

Temp 26.5
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 10
Ph 7.8
Kh 143.2
Gh 89.5

I know the last three are not perfect but they shouldn't cause deaths? A water change is due tonight.


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