# Help me with plants! I suck at it!



## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

My 55 gallon looks boring. I tried getting some plants to grow, but they either grow very slowly, or wither away. I plan to start over with some of my plants when I re setup the tank. It will have near 100 watts of light, and will have a dirted substrate, so hopefully this helps.

What are some good background plants that grow tall and bushy? Like cabomba?

How about something that carpets the floor well? And also grows fast under my conditions.

And lastly, some mid ground plants that also grow fast. Any suggestions?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

100 watts may not be enough for a "carpet" plant as they are often high light and CO2 lovers.

What are your conditions? For a tall plant I like hygrophila difformis. It did well in my tank with about the same light level as you have (6700K, the color is important) and no CO2.

Do your fish eat plants or dig them up? That could impact their ability to survive as well.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2011)

First what fish do you have in the tank? Rotala is a good background plant that is easy and fast to grow you could also do ludwigia, pennywort, or anacharis. There are many species of plants that shoot off runners that can "carpet" your tank. If you wanting a serious carpet I would agree with DJRansome that many need high lighting and CO2. Java ferns, anubias, and swords grow relatively fast and make excellent foreground plants.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

could also try cryptocoryne or valisneria; both are low light and send out runners to colonize the tank.


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

Hmm, Val seems like my kinda plant! I think I will do those with. Some crypts to fill my background out! Thanks guys!

As for the front, I will probably try some of this Christmas moss that I got. That should coat a lot!. So I have nice Val through the background, christmas moss for the front. Now for the center, I have (currently) 2 Bleheri Amazon swords, so those will make two good center pieces.

Now I need some short, fast growing plants, that preferably root. I have this Cuban plant that seems to grow fast, but it has so many strands that it fails apart fast. So i need a good medium small plant! I wish baby tears were low light  hmmm Java moss grows to slow for me. Any ideas here?

And probably my MOST important question, is about what organic soil brand to use for my dieted substrate? Will the organic Scotts brand work?


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2011)

I use Miracle Gro Organic Choice. Medium to small plants that root and grow pretty fast, IMO I would use Anubias or Java Fern. Make sure with your val if you use it as a background plant then it needs to be jungle val; stuff grows super tall and fast. Also make sure it's a taller growing Cryptocoryne like spiralis.


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## k19smith (Sep 6, 2005)

I'm a little confused are you going with CO2? 100 watts of light seems very high to me in less your doing a high tech set up then I would have no idea because I have low tech. It's going to be very bright for your fish. Maybe I'm just reading this wrong.


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

Well I was going to do two 48" light strips, which gives me about 110 watts, so it'd be. Bright, yes, but not over whelming. I actually thought that 2 watts per gallon, was kinda low?

Not sure if the plants in my tank are low light :/ I think they are! But I am going to do a DIY co2 system, so if they are lowlight, they will have get some nicer light, dirted/peatmoss/ecocomplete substrate, and a little co2. Ha they'll do goods I hope


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## Ollie (Sep 22, 2009)

2 bulbs would be too much(assuming t5ho), go with 1 to start off with and when the plants settle in you could add the second bulb for a 2-3hr midday burst. Light drives the photosynthesis cycle too much and co2 or nutrients (usually co2) become the limiting factors for plant growth and results in unhealthy plants. You might also want to consider some water column dosing aswell for long term success.
Regards
Ollie


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## k19smith (Sep 6, 2005)

Do you mean 2 48" t8 lights with 2 bulbs each for a total of 4 bulbs or 2 t5 bulbs total? I also have a planted 55 well right now I just ripped out half my plants and am waiting on a new order because I wanted to move a bunch of plants into other tanks. I'm still learning but from what I understand the watt per gallon rule doesn't mater near as much a the kelvin rating. I'm running 2 32w t8 daylights with 6500k, no co2, fert with flourish complete weekly.

I know nothing about co2 so I'm probably of no help. If you go high light as long as you have co2 you should be fine but I think at that point you may need to does individual ferts. Getting in over my head here. lol


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

Well, I already have one t8 bulb, and it has a very low rating. I think I will get the 10,000 k bulb for the t8. Not sure on the watts, probably near 50.

I will also be getting a double t5 fixture that has two 6500k bulbs, 28w each.

Sorry for the confusion


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## Ollie (Sep 22, 2009)

> I'm still learning but from what I understand the watt per gallon rule doesn't mater near as much a the kelvin rating.


Light intensity(watts per gallon/PAR) is far more important than the k rating in freshwater aquaria. Plants will grow as long as the light source produces PAR(Photosynthetically active radiation). Colour temperature is down to personal preference and as long as you avoid extremely low or exremely high k ratings you wont have a problem. Wpg is outdated but still useful as a general guide on standard sized aquaria. PAR is a far more accuate method of measuring light intensity unfortunately the meters cost a bomb, there are quite a few reef keepers using them but not many fresh water aquarists.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html
This is a link to generic PAR readings for different light sources. For a non co2 tank you want to keep the PAR at the substrate below 35 micromoles.
Based on this chart: 
K19Smith I would imagine you have around 10-20 micromoles on the tank floor which is good for a low light tank.
Scarhbar If your light unit is 2x T5HO you would need to suspend you light unit 12-15inches above your tank to use both tubes without having too much light.

Sorry for the long post hope it all makes sense
Regards
Ollie


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## londonloco (Mar 31, 2011)

If the fixture is 28W T5, it's a normal output bulb, not HO or high output. I have T5NO's over my 20gallon longs, they are only 13" high. This fixture will probably only give you low light, which is OK if that is what your aim is. I think I would scrap all plans and go with one T5HO 54w bulb for a 55 gallon tank, or a two bulb and suspend it over the tank so you have height options.


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## Ollie (Sep 22, 2009)

scarhbar said:


> Well, I already have one t8 bulb, and it has a very low rating. I think I will get the 10,000 k bulb for the t8. Not sure on the watts, probably near 50.
> 
> I will also be getting a double t5 fixture that has two 6500k bulbs, 28w each.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion


Sorry didnt see this before posting my last.

If they are 4 ft t8s they will be 36w so I suggest using 2 t8s or 2 t5s not both together.

Regards

Ollie


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## k19smith (Sep 6, 2005)

Ollie said:


> > I'm still learning but from what I understand the watt per gallon rule doesn't mater near as much a the kelvin rating.
> 
> 
> Light intensity(watts per gallon/PAR) is far more important than the k rating in freshwater aquaria. Plants will grow as long as the light source produces PAR(Photosynthetically active radiation). Colour temperature is down to personal preference and as long as you avoid extremely low or exremely high k ratings you wont have a problem. Wpg is outdated but still useful as a general guide on standard sized aquaria. PAR is a far more accuate method of measuring light intensity unfortunately the meters cost a bomb, there are quite a few reef keepers using them but not many fresh water aquarists.
> ...


Awesome post I had no idea how to go about explaining that or even what mattered. I just knew it was a lot of light.


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

23,000 k on my tank would be too much? hmm the lights are only ....2" or 3" above the tank. hmm what do you recommend, and why not do both types of lights?

They focus on different color spectrums, and the t5's only out-power my t8 by 3000 k's. haha I am too tired to think! someone want to explain?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

scarhbar said:


> 23,000 k on my tank would be too much? hmm the lights are only ....2" or 3" above the tank. hmm what do you recommend, and why not do both types of lights?
> 
> They focus on different color spectrums, and the t5's only out-power my t8 by 3000 k's. haha I am too tired to think! someone want to explain?


Scarhbar... Kelvin is simply a code to represent the color. It means absolutely nothing more than the words red, yellow, green and purple and blue do... You don't add them up, and Kelvin should be as ignored as the old useless "watts per gallon rule" should be. No offense meant, (it just comes naturally some days) but a bulb that says 6500K or there-abouts could also just say "Looks Sunny!".

PAR is a good reading... not everyone can rent, borrow or buy a meter, so I also like to point out the free version... google the spectral graph of any bulb you are considering buying and make sure it has a nice peak in the red and nice peak in the blue. Avoid peaks at the very high blues, and avoid green spikes as that's wasted light. Watts tell you NOTHING more than power consumption. 100W of light pointed at the ceiling is 0.00 light on the plant leaves... an extreme example but one worth using to make my point. It is all too often that wattage is paid attention to where as reflectors, glass lids, height over tank often decrease the amount of light hitting plant leaves.

What you want to think about is a nice amount of red light and blue light hitting as many plant leaves as possible. The spectral graph of each bulb should allow you to compare numbers and see which bulb is the best buy for cheapest. The PAR readings other aquarists have taken are awesome as well, so the linked PAR readings is gold if one of the bulbs matches one you are willing to buy.

Carbon is a nutrient, carbon dioxide is the easiest source of that nutrient. Plants need carbon, so carbon dioxide is a handy thing to make sure they have. Additional CO2 is the process of generating CO2 or using compressed CO2 to diffuse into the water to raise the CO2 level of the water. You can also keep CO2 levels up by *either* the water being pretty still, or through the use of plenty of water circulation to allow the CO2 in the air of your home to raise the CO2 of the water. Anyone reading the internet pages out there may be very confused at the number of pages with info that appears to conflict... air stone, no air stones... both are right, both are wrong depending on what the source of the CO2 is. You don't want to use an airstone AND additional CO2 in most cases.

Step number one... look at your light bulbs and let us know what the wattage is, the length, what type of reflector is behind them and then we should be able to tell you how to have a lush planted tank. :thumb:


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## scarhbar (Feb 17, 2011)

wow, i never responded to this. my phone never sent it  I feel bad now. but your info was very very helpful number 6! thank you!

I found a nicer t5 double 48" high output lamp, but now if you could point me to some bulbs online somewhere? Where would you guys say has some nice bulbs?


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## Ollie (Sep 22, 2009)

Sorry cant point to a retailer in the US but this may help with choosing colours
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/lighting.htm

Regards

Ollie


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*scarhbar*
good choice. If it has a good reflector then you will have little problem growing plants under that fixture. Adding additional CO2 would allow the plants to explode!

Online bulbs have one big drawback... shipping. If you can team up with anyone in your area from a fish club or what not, then that can be a bonus. With multiple tanks to light, I'm lucky as I can order 6 or more at a time and make the shipping less of an impact.

If you are brave enough to shop ebay, there are awesome deals on there. I chicken out on ebay more often than I buy, so I've gone shoppign online at more commonly heard of aquatic supply stores. Google "HO T5 bulbs for sale" and you will see a plethora of hits. There are a number of "daylight" or "daylight plus" bulbs out there that are great bulbs. I used to use phillips, though I've also heard great things about some of the GE daylights. :thumb:


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