# need help sexing this convict



## jason-newman




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## Elijah

Looks like it might be male to me. On second thought it doesn't have the long flowing fins, and in the second pic it looks as if there is a teeny tiny orange spot. Did you just get them? If you did, let them settle in for a few days, then re-take photos.


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## TheFishGuy

Long flowing fins have nothing to do with the sex of a convict. 
Neither does nutchal hump.
You have a male.


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## Elijah

TheFishGuy said:


> Long flowing fins have nothing to do with the sex of a convict.
> Neither does nutchal hump.
> You have a male.


Really? Every single male I have seen has streamers or longer fins. My male has them too, and the start of a nutchal hump.


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## TheFishGuy

Really Really! LOL
Female:









Actually, I posted a video once on youtube a while ago and was accused by a 14 year old kid of not sexing my female cons correctly LOL

They will get the same finnage as males if given enough room to flee and not get them torn off...

I'll usually sex the fry and split them up. In doing so the largest feamle in a group of females will grow a nutchal hump...


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## Elijah

FishGuy, I respect that you have alot of experience and knowledge on this subject, I really do. But I just have to disagree with you on this one. Don't take it personally. But every single source I've used to sex cons, always sides with males have longer finnage.



> Females are usually a lot smaller than males, and will show orange/red markings on their bellies. This can range from small spots to an overall blush that can cover the entire belly. Males are generally much larger than females and will show *long extensions on their dorsal and anal fins.*


http://www.worldcichlids.com/fishprofil ... hlids.html



> How can you tell the difference between a male and female convict cichlid ?
> *The male has longer more flowing fins and a slight 'lump' on his 'forehead'* whereas the female is more rounded with rounded fins, usually smaller than the male. The female also develops more intense colouring during breeding.


http://www.tropicalfish.co.za/


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## TheFishGuy

My point is this. Finnage is simply NOT a reliable way to sex convicts. If I were to crop that picture I posted down to just the female, most would say it's a male. In fact, the male is swimming in the background along with fry... Four or five year old females can easily be mistook as males. You're keeping a breeding pair in a 20L. There's nothing wrong with that but in that size tank you'll never get to see the true potential of a female convict. Raise a group in a 6' or 8' tank or in my case a 14' tank. Females can get big with long flowing fins if not constantly hounded by males who always want to spawn. A female con took first place in the CA cichlids under 6" at last years OCA Extravaganza...

Again, in my experience, finnage is not a reliable way to sex cons, therefore it shouldn't even come into play. The first time a bred cons was almost 26 years ago. I was told by the pet shop owner that I had two males. One pink one black. When I brought marbled fry into them a couple months later I explained that the one with the longer fins was female. THey also told me there was no market for "marbled" convicts and that I should give the fry to my brothers aligator gar... LOL


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## Elijah

TheFishGuy said:


> Again, in my experience, finnage is not a reliable way to sex cons, therefore it shouldn't even come into play.


That's cool. And that's perfectly fine if you feel that way, but every single source to sex cons says to look at the fins. So I'm just going by that and my own cons. You have yours. To each is own; different strokes for different folks. Most people don't house cons in 4' tanks, so the females fins probably won't get as long as in your case. Therefore, I beleive it to be an accurate way.


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## Riceburner

I'm siding with TFG on this one. Fin length is not a reliable way to sex convicts.

my female with long flowing fins...




































older juvie on her way to long fins...


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## gambino55

Elijah said:


> every single source to sex cons says to look at the fins.


I quote from another fish site " Sexual dimorphism is very easy. Males are often larger and have a more pointed tip on their dorsal fin. " So , the final part i think it's essential , every male i saw has 4-5 " dots " on the base of their dorsal fins , females don't have this drawing at all .


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## Riceburner

What "dots"?










My male with long fins....it gets chomped down and grows back, so changes from time to time.

male's tail and dorsal..


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## gambino55

Look at the first 5 seconds of this video and you will see the " dots " .... even your male has these dots , look closer


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## bernie comeau

TheFishGuy said:


> My point is this. Finnage is simply NOT a reliable way to sex


I agree 100%.
Finnage is one of many indicators for sexing VERY young CA cichlids......because basically they all resemble females, more so. Some males will begin to indicate by their finnage, very early on.....but it is only one of many traits that has to be looked at. But once a CA cichlid has matured, finngae really doesn't count for much, if anything.

I think the fish in question is a male....but it is actually sort of tough to tell based on this picture.


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## Chromedome52

I'm not sure the OP's fish is a Convict, or at least not a pure Con. In the last shot, I notice a blue sheen to the eye. That is an indicator of some _Cryptoheros _species (_spilurum_ for example), and I've never seen any pure _Amatitlania _with blue eyes. It could be a trick of the light, but I don't think so.

Should also not that the bar pattern is rather pale, and just doesn't look right. Body shape looks odd, again, possibly a result of the photography angle. But overall, the fish just doesn't look right for any Convict that I'm familiar with.


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## MonteSS

My female Con when she was young









...Bill


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## TheFishGuy

It has been rumored that 90% of the convicts in captivity today are hybrids... Some day when I have time I'll explain...


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## Bruce Haynes

Fin length is not a reliable way to sex alot of fish. I had a pair of cutteri and the female had the long dorsal and anal fins; the male's were short and stumpy. The red cebal are almost impossible without venting. Size is a better way to guess and it's just a good guess too.


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128

> It has been rumored that 90% of the convicts in captivity today are hybrids... Some day when I have time I'll explain...


I wouldn't doubt it! Are you sure it's rumored? I would say it's the truth.



> Fin length is not a reliable way to sex alot of fish. I had a pair of cutteri and the female had the long dorsal and anal fins; the male's were short and stumpy. The red cebal are almost impossible without venting. Size is a better way to guess and it's just a good guess too.


Agreed! :thumb:


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## Gale

I am in a dilema!!! I was certain that I began with a female regular convict. She has the orange dots on her belly - no dots on the bottom fin. I got two pink convicts that I also thought were females and have had it confirmed by two pet shop people that they are also females with orange dots on their bellies. I do not see any dots on the bottom fins of those either ... again thinking that they are females.

However!!! ... My regular convict is suddenly nesting and has joined with one of the pinks. Eggs were laid and they are being territorial guarding the eggs. The Pet shop owner said that females will still lay eggs, but since they are not fertilized they will turn white and finally disappear. I put the pink convicts back in the tank, and the two of them are back at it. Guarding & nesting! Is it possible that two females will act like that together?

I would like to post pictures, but not sure how to do it. I do NOT want baby cichlids!


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## TheFishGuy

If you do not want convict fry then only keep one.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Posting pics- http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=255434


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## illy-d

TheFishGuy said:


> If you do not want convict fry then only keep one.


Truer words have never been spoken. I added two Convicts to my tank on Friday night. By Saturday night, 25 hours after being released from their bags, they have spawned. While probably not a record, it is still impressive and just one of the many reasons why I love Convicts.


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## illy-d

TheFishGuy said:


> It has been rumored that 90% of the convicts in captivity today are hybrids... Some day when I have time I'll explain...


I'd love to hear more about this. Not that I doubt it or anything, I'd just like to learn more about it.


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## TheFishGuy

For over 29 years I've kept and spawned literally hundreds of convicts from the common grey convicts to siquia and most recently platinum HRPs. In that time I've seen their body shape change not only in size but shape. While I'm sure a lot of this can be contributed to inbreeding but there's so many species related to the "common" convict that it's very likely that HRPs and siquia have been mixed in with shipments. Hence, the hybrid theory... 
Think about it, convicts like to spawn with everything, and from my experience they do spawn with HRPs and siquia so.... 
Unless you aquire wild caught specimens from a reputable source, or yourself... You'll never be 100% sure that what you have is pure!


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## illy-d

It makes sense. It also makes me want to get my hands on some wild caught ones.

How's the big tank doing? Before Christmas I re-read the original build threads over again, start to finish. It was just as cool the second time around. I remembered how simple and effective your filter set-up was, but I forgot about the heat coil you eventually installed. Ingenious.


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## TheFishGuy

Thank you! One of these days I need to read it! Tank is down for the moment, but will be up soon.


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