# Please tell me these are not Hybrids!!



## karmafish (Feb 26, 2012)

The first 3 pictures are of my new Intermedius Lethrinops. I was told I should have someone verify this. Whats the verdict?!?! 




























The next 3 are photos of a few of my Blue dolphins. Im sure they are not hybrids but thought Id ask anyway 



























The last two I was told were Yellow Labs..... whatcha think :fish:


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

That first one is not what they sell as Intermedius Lethrinops. Not sure what he is, probably hybrid but a very colorful hybrid.


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## r-fishies (Jan 2, 2012)

Last 2 are easy, definitely yellow labs.


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## al7601 (May 10, 2011)

looks like red empress, for sure blue dolphins and yellow labs.


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## karmafish (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 3qMzXSIHPo

How is my lethrinops intermedius any different then the one he drops from the vat into the tank? Looks like the same fish to me.....


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

Body shape maybe the same different species of fish. If it was the same it would be more green.


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2012)

thats a red empress in the first pic for sure


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

karmafish said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=43qMzXSIHPo
> 
> How is my lethrinops intermedius any different then the one he drops from the vat into the tank? Looks like the same fish to me.....


The slope of the foreheads are different.
That video doesn't show much either.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

IMO those are not a Lethrinops species. I dunno what they are though.
I dought they are pure anything.
_Lethrinops intermedius_ is not a recognised scientific name.................big clue. :wink:

All the best James


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## karmafish (Feb 26, 2012)

****. Oh well Ill take it back. After all its not what I paid for. I will post some pics of the females I have let me know what you think they are,,,,, please


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

There is however a _Tramitichromis intermedius_ but that looks not a lot like your fish.
http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?id=567
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=2601

I am guessing hybrid but it is only a guess. I for sure dunno all 840 odd species and all variants of all Malawi cichlid :wink:

Your fish does look quite like stuff on the net carrying the "name" _Lethrinops intermedius_ I do not know what these are iether http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/af ... 100063.asp

I even found this thread on em.
Does anyone know what they are?
http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6909


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

*24Tropheus*, which fish are you talking about? There a several pictured in that thread...LOL!


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Dunno most of em look like they are close hybrids and all sold as the fish intermedius.
Its a real problem how do we help folk when there is so much missinformation about on the web.
Yep I get confused too. And yep I have payed good money for Lethrinops species that turned out to be nothing of the sort. 
It was not like this 20 years ago. Misstakes for sure on Ids back then (but not hybrids being passed on as real species) and not so many breeders passing off fish as species that are clearly wrong or making new guys to sell by crossing and peperring the web with images to get away with it.

Only thing I know for sure is lots of places sell intermedius and they are not that fish.

Rant over. What do you think the OPs fish are?

If you say intermedius I promice never ever to say anything to you ever again. :lol:


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Yes, the true 'Lethrinops' intermedius is a rare fish in the hobby, if even known for sure.

The fish sold as Lethrinops intermedius seems to be unknown in nature. Males get red spots in the fins, with a metallic green color in the body. The females are kinda pale yellowish. The 3 black spots are normal thou.

The fish in question in the OP has a different shape of face, the body has bright orange, the face an intense blue like a Fryeri or Aulonocara. But has 3 spots on the body. Odd fish, but very colorful.


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## karmafish (Feb 26, 2012)

Here are a few pics of the females I bought as well a few more pics of the male. Some one had mentioned if it were Lethrinops intermedius his body would be more green, and for the most part he looks greenish brown. Any takers on verifying the genus of the females or are they hybrids as well?













































Now when I bought the three fish, they were sold as Lethrinops intermedius. they were like 17-18 bucks EACH! I got three for 40 and I picked the females with eggs in their mouths. So right now I have the two females and the male in my community tank with Blue dolphins and Yellow labs. I also now have a ten gallon tank with almost 20 babies!! I now learn they are all hybrids. what should I do. I got into the hobby to breed quality fish..... This may start some controversy but what should I do flush them all down the toilet. Id feel like a jerk if I raise them up and sold them back to the store, it would feel like I was adding to what I consider and am learning is a real problem existing in the hobby.... despite the fact the jerks sold them to me and Im now out 40 bucks.


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

Id keep fish for awhile before you start breeding this way you become more accustom to what is and is not a hybrid. After a while you get an eye for it and can even pick out males from groups when they are still small. *** been doing cichlids for 6 years now you will always come across hybrids and they just keep making new ones...


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## karmafish (Feb 26, 2012)

I apologize for the rant  Its not suppose to sound hostile, its more of a sympathy plea. Live and learn I guess. But these are the last fish I buy on a whim. I thought I had found a deal and a half.... Now its research before purchase....


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2012)

if you like the way the fish look then dont sweat it.. they are nice looking fish.. just be honest with people if you are going to sell fry and tell them they might not be pure blood


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

Your best bet for breeding may be going through a online seller or a private breeder. But still its up in the air if those fish are really pure


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2012)

well they look like red empress but have spots so its pretty sure they arent pure.. red empress have stripes not spots.. copadichromis have spots... if you are going to breed them you should breed them with each other or get more of the same and just tell people they are some kind of red empress hybrid.. or try to breed them back to legit red empress.. if you are really worried about having pure fish then just get rid of them


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

karmafish said:


> I apologize for the rant  Its not suppose to sound hostile, its more of a sympathy plea. Live and learn I guess. But these are the last fish I buy on a whim. I thought I had found a deal and a half.... Now its research before purchase....


Sadly with so many of these man made guys about being sold as genuine species it seems to be the only way to protect yourself. Go to the breeder and check out the adult fish and find the excact type and variant in a repitable book or a real good site like this one. Do not trust LFS guys they know no better and the worst they face is you asking for money back. No chance of being prosecuted for fraud.

Or be happy with man made cichlids. Lots of folk seem to be. :-?

But hey I have blown more than 10 times that much on a WC fish to breed and all but one of 8 were dead within a month.

First time it happens to you have a good rant about it. Its not right I agree. Silly me has been had too many times to recount. Still fail to learn that a bargain rairly turns out to be a genuine bargain.

All the best James


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2012)

whered you get them?


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## karmafish (Feb 26, 2012)

I got them At big Al's in brampton On.


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## somEDude (Dec 4, 2011)

you cant trust some online vendors even a certain sponsor of this site. Must be something bout letrinops. you get what looks like a red empress and i get something that looks like a fryeri. The ****ty thing bout this is that if you want those fish you can go to petsmat and get one for less than $10 If you like em keep em and if you sell them don't try and pass them off as something they are not. more and more I'm beginning to think the closest you can get to honesty in this hobby is the assorted african tanks at a pet store I have seen central americans sneak in those tanks though.


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

somEDude said:


> more and more I'm beginning to think the closest you can get to honesty in this hobby is the assorted african tanks at a pet store


Completely disagree with that statement if you're implying all online vendors are dishonest. It's unfortunate you had a bad experience and sorry it happened to you.

*somEDude* and *karmafish*, if both of you want reputable online vendors, send me a pm.

*karmafish*, your fish is very colorful and if you have the room, might as well keep him. Who knows, eventually you might steer towards an all-male peacock hap tank and he would make a great addition.


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## somEDude (Dec 4, 2011)

DanniGirl said:


> somEDude said:
> 
> 
> > more and more I'm beginning to think the closest you can get to honesty in this hobby is the assorted african tanks at a pet store
> ...


Not saying all are dishonest or even know they aren't selling what they say. Just saying that theres alot of assorted africans being sold as something they arent.


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

somEDude said:


> Not saying all are dishonest or even know they aren't selling what they say. Just saying that theres alot of assorted africans being sold as something they arent.


Got ya'.... :thumb:


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