# buying fish poll



## jbjack

*truthfully, would you support the smaller ma & pop operation who keeps very good care of there fish, (and customers) over the big chains who everyone knows dont keep good care of there fish, even if it was a bit more expensive?*​
yes, absolutely!6379.75%probly....1012.66%well, maybe....56.33%probly not.....11.27%


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## jbjack

well, wouldd ya?


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## Azrider

I have never once seen a Frontosa, Altolamp, or even a decent looking yellow lab in the big box stores! They really don't care about the types of fish I am interested in. I like the small stores, because most of them started as hobbyists. They are also the only ones that are interested in the fry that other hobbyist produce. They charge a little more, but I would rather pay an extra $25 dollars for my AC110 and know that the store will be open in a few months. I would go to a small store every time.


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## DJRansome

I voted yes absolutely. But I would not have voted the same if ordering online was an option. LFS just cannot have the livestock variety available online.

Also it is my understanding that LFS make much of their living from dry goods. Those I pretty much never buy in LFS partly because of lack of selection, but mostly because the price is more than double. I just wait for free shipping from one of the big online suppliers.

I like being able to see the fish in person, but not enough to spend 2X the $$.


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## Cich of it all

It's a no brainer. Down with the big box stores!! :x


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## chapman76

I voted Well, maybe for the simple reason of I have a mom & pop distributor (also supply a good share of LFS) who breeds fish and sells them for far cheaper than LFS (big box or other). If I need a special order, there is a group of guys around here who order 1/2 times per month from the large distributors.

If none of those were around, then yes, I'd buy from mom and pops. There is one local store I do buy from once in awhile.


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## The Shmuck

I would buy fish from the ma/pop store for the sake of getting healthier fish. When it comes to equipment, I would let my wallet speak and hit up a big box store. 
Also, speaking of big box stores and healthy fish, my LFS (big-box style) happens to employ a fish-loving nut, so I trust her to keep her store's fish healthy. She will even sell fish cheaper to a good home. It seems that not all big box stores deserve the bad rap.


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## dalto

For me its a no-brainer. Not only do big box stores not carry any of the fish I am interested in, but because of my geographic location I have access to fish stores that carry of wide variety of cichlid species. There is a store in my area that specializes in African cichlids, another which has a superior selection of South American fish.


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## countrykat

Ma and Pa without a doubt!!!


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## TheFishGuy

Here's the reason I voted for ma and pa:

Last nite I was going to get home after the kids were to be in bed so it didn't matter to me when I got home. So I stopped into a "Big Box Store" that I actually frequent and have gotten to know the managers pretty well.

They had a 5" very nicely colored midas for $10. It's very deep orange colored. So I bought it... The girl who was taking care of me made no effort to ask my tank size or if I knew what I was getting myself into. So I started to strike up a conversation that I'm Monster Fish Rescue and proceed to tell her what I do and that I had worked in the pet trade before. She had little to no interest, I think she thought I was attempting to flirt with her.... If I was flirting she'd know it :lol:

Any way she proceeds to blow into the bag after putting the fish in it.... Nothing pisses me off more... So I suggest to her that if she puts the bag of fish in the plastic cup it's very easy to trap air in it. She replys with.. "30% of what we exhale _is_ air and gives me one of her best "F" off looks. Then I asked if she could double bag it. So she slips a bag over it and hands it to me 

So right in front og her I take the second bag off, un do the rubberband on the first bag, trap some air in it, tie it back up, slip the other bag over it the opposite way then rubber band it...

She says "Have a nice day"

I had a lengthy conversation with the manager, then offered to give a presentation to all of his employees on how to prperly take care of customers in the fish room, from greeting to bagging fish properly....

He's making them all come in early to meet me :lol:

That's why I like ma and pa stores, unfortunately it's a corperate world and those days are gone.

Sorry to turn this is to a b.i.t.c.h. fest... I was itching to tell someone that might care :roll:


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## Supercoley1

I voted probably but mainly because it seems to be different over here in the UK.

The major chain stores like [email protected] tend to charge more than a dedicated fish store and if they get any fish that is not their usual then they price accordingly.

This means that in my local store they have 1 bristlenose priced at Â£24.99 ($50) whereas I would expect maidenhead Aquatics (still a chainstore) to charge around the Â£5 -Â£7 for the same fish.

To go even further mail order places like pleco aquatics or Tri-Mar will charge even less.

I tend to get all my fish from Pleco Aquatics (because heis local and will deliver to me on his way home for free) at even less i.e. my last purchase was:

4 x pitbull Plecs, 4 Otocinclus and 19 Cardinal Tetra where I paid Â£50 total.

In [email protected] cardinals are Â£1.95 each, Otos are Â£1.95 each and they never have pitbulls but I am sure they would probs charge similar to the bristlenose as they would think its not a comon fish. So I would pay Â£145. In a maidenhead I would expect to pay aprox Â£100 and online probably about Â£75+shipping.

Therefore in UK its quite simple support the dedicated fish suppliersbecause they have more range of fish in better shape and they tend to be cheaper.

Andy


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## Cich of it all

*TheFishGuy:*
:lol: :lol: :lol: 
That story is priceless. I could feel your frustration, but the end result is awesomne!
Once again you are a great service to the well being of our little finned friends.
Thanks! :thumb:


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## iceblue

I frequent both the Mom and Pops and the big box stores checking things out. More frequently I find the M & Ps do take better care of thier fish and sometimes will have a better variety in about the same price range. However thier are big box stores that do have knowledgable and caring people running thier fish department and they also to get my business. Bottom line is my wallet, and both can have a hard time competeing against the internet.


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## dogofwar

I voted for M&P, but that doesn't mean that all M&P stores are better than big boxes. Some M&P stores frankly suck and deserve to go out of business.

Same bad service as a box, probably dirtier, and prices higher mean that I go elsewhere...


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## Munky

I've just bought 3 keyholes at a 'smaller' shop. I paid double what it would have cost me at the big stores. I prefer to pay extra because i know the bloke i'm buying them off is a true hobbiest. And they are quality fish.

I'm lucky that where i live there is an excellent choice of 6/7 LFS. I have the luxury of shopping around if i want to.

However, I do agree with dogofwar above!


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## jbjack

no doubt there are ppl. out there who just wanna make a buck and dont care, example there are 2 smaller fish stores competing with several giants in my city, the one is an ass, expensive, and the fish are mediocre. the other is a true m&p store, its just him, he loves his fish and is more of a hobbiest then a salesman. he alwasys has a wide variety of cool fish and will get you what ever you want if he doesnt have it (fish or supplys) his fish are amazingly healthy ALWAYS, he will do anything to keep you as a customer and is usually actually a better deal then the big giants in town - go figure. here is an example the big giant was selling an aquarium, it was 498.00 the stand was 350.00 a total of 848.00 i goth the exact aquarium (it was a boxed kit, so i know its the same) with the same stand for a total of 515.00 so there you go, not always are the m&ps more expensive. and for me personally i do buy things over the internet, never fish though, doesnt seem right to me, and as for supply and food, i will pay the extra 2 dollars i would save online to keep a REAL fish store open.


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## chillout

I voted Yes absolutely but lately I only buy from breeders when it comes to fish and online for supplies. I figure give the money back to people who like myself actually give a hoot about the hobby. I have found more then enough breeders in my area here in NY, from browsing www.nycichlids.com , have yet to not be able to find something I want plus more.


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## Mr Aquarium

I voted Yes, for the simple fact, the local stores here are more apt to by fish from local breeders, which most do, so you know not all of the fish come from fish farms and are of better stains, and keep better care of the tanks at the store then chain stores do,

that and the fact the LFS here, 99% of who they hire know about fish in general and not some little rich girl who don't know a thing besides you keep them in a glass tank with water.


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## Cich of it all

> don't know a thing besides you keep them in a glass tank with water.


"You mean there's more to it than that? I mean other than the fact that when placing fish into a bag, a lung full of CO2 should be exhaled into the bag to keep the fish alive. Oh, and the fact that all cichlids are compatible with one another as long as you change all of the water once every 3 months.", said the life long Pet-Koh aquatics employee.


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## big-o

i voted m&p because i used to have one i visited frequently to see if he had anything new and interesting ,which occasionally happened . but they would never sell someone a fish without water samples and tank dimensions ,he would not sell to you unless he was sure that the fish would be well cared for , and when he got new stuff in i actually had to wait a month to get two fish i wanted because he wont sell them till hes 100 % positive that they are healthy fish and you couldnt beat the customer service you got from there he would also order in stuff or fish for you if he didnt carry it himself but you still had to wait for him to make sure they were healthy. but *** never gotten a sick fish from him.


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## rogersb

I had to say probably. I buy all my food locally, but I find it hard to buy fish locally. Once I asked a place to get in calvus for me. They got them in and had a $17 sticker on them and they were only around an inch. It was cheaper for me to drive up to atlantis (2 hours) and buy 10 than it was for me to buy 5 locally. So I give the ma and pop places a so-so rating, they just can't compete in prices with the bigger guys when it comes to fish.


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## Laurel

I go to a local store to get everything, providing that they carry it. The store that I go to isn't irresponsible enough to sell Ps. Crabros though, so I went to PetSmart last week to grab a couple girls for my male. I ended up nearly yelling at the employee because he suggested that a 29 gallon tank would be plenty for a very aggressive fish that gets 10" long. FWIW, they also had yellow labs and Auratus in one tank, and the bumblebees were in a tank with Jewels.


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## Cich of it all

I'm sure it is not what you meant Laurel, but I'd love to see those 10" crabros!


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## Laurel

lol, DOH! For some reason when I was typing that, I was imagining a monster fish, perhaps because I read somewhere that they get that large. I'm just insane.


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## Cich of it all

:lol: I know what you mean though. It's very frustrating to see tin-foil barbs, bala sharks, and oscars being eagerly sold to unsuspecting 29 gallon tank owners. Its borderline inhumane, and not fair to the fish nor the customer.


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## dogofwar

I was speaking with the guy who manages a large, new fish M&P store in town and he asked me whether he should start stocking really rare, wild (and correspondingly expensive) cichlids...whether it would make financial sense.

I told him, "No"

Here's why:
The limited number of people who would want such fish (in a 2-ish million person metro area) is pretty small...and these people - by and large - already have many sources of such fish (mail order, local breeders, club auctions, etc.). They'll come in, look around, MAYBE buy some food...and leave without buying any of the rare, wild, expensive fish filling their tanks. 
Why won't they buy: wrong varient, price is too high/can get them cheaper elsewhere, didn't stock enough, etc, etc.

It's no coincidence that there are so few "ideal" freshwater LFS around.

PS I've never seen a 10" crabro but I've seen an 8" one. They lose their bumblebee color and turn into black/muddy mbuna killing machines.


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## Laurel

dogofwar said:


> .
> PS I've never seen a 10" crabro but I've seen an 8" one. They lose their bumblebee color and turn into black/muddy mbuna killing machines.


LOL, yes. My boyfriend purchased it without any research, but after we saw how killer they look when they grow up, we figured we'd give it a shot. If things work out, then I'll be very lucky, and incredibly happy, because he gets more and more beautiful as he grows, first with his fins developing loads of irridescent blue, and now his forehead is beginning to turn a little blue. If it doesn't work out, then I can at least be satisfied in that I tried, and I'll find a suitable home for them.


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## BlackShark11k

My crabro died at 8 inches. I miss him  Wonderful fish, female though, so she didn't turn black like males do.

Mom and pop for sure! The only chain shop 'round here is pet supply outlet(well, only has 2 stores) and petco.

Art


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## Guest

I like M+P shops better as they tend to have better quality products, know what they're selling, social, less-likely to sell hormoned fish, etc. The one by me doesn't have as good of a cichlid section as their fresh, salt and coral tanks but you can mail-order fish through them and they sell their Aqueon (AGA), Perfecto, and Oceanic tanks wholesale. Their pond with the 100lb 4" long koi is nice too.

Surprisingly I found my local petsmarts to have better quality clown loaches though...

Btw are adult clown loaches easily to rehabilitate? My local petco has 5-6" ones for $35 that look miserable...they're a light black and white color rather than orange and black. With their 2 week guarentee I wonder if it'd be worth it to rescue one...

~Marduk


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## BlackShark11k

^Just don't give it powerful meds, their scaleless fish and therefore can't put up with them. Half of the suggested is generally suitable for you average med.

Art


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## Guest

artemis1 said:


> ^Just don't give it powerful meds, their scaleless fish and therefore can't put up with them. Half of the suggested is generally suitable for you average med.
> 
> Art


 I was thinking of quarentining it in a 29gal and feeding it some of my cichlid food (dainichi), cyclop-eeze wafers and maybe frozen bloodworms until it gets better. What do you think? I'd rather not use and meds.

~Marduk


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## BlackShark11k

Should work, although they are scale-less, so they won't me too happy about bad water quality etc.


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## jbjack

that sounds really good, i say go for it, i would.


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## Guest

jbjack said:


> that sounds really good, i say go for it, i would.


(if you're talking to me)

I'm thinking about it. I want to wait and finish treating my C. trewavassae for bloat with Hex-Out (metronydisole) before I go ahead and buy it.

I'll let you guys know in this or another topic if I decide to try and save one from its currently miserable life at petco.


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## jbjack

yes lol, i was talking to you, gl


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## pk333

I voted yes, even though we only have a couple, what I would consider Ma & Pa LFS down here. One is owned by the President of our cichlid society (but way over the other side of town) and another has probably been open longer than any other LFS (but I often get put off by the condition of their tanks).

We probably have an even balance between LFS and Pet Barns. By pet barn, I mean a large warehouse style building that has several different pet departments; aquarium section, cat & dog section, bird section, herp section, small rodents section etc.

From what I can gather the pet barns aren't as bad as your (USA) chains. One that I regularly visit, has been open over 50 years now, has gone through a couple of expansions that I can remember over the last 20 years, and has one of the best range of fish here. Especially for SA cichlids.

My last couple of visits to the pet barn, it's been the customers who have p!ssed me off.

A month ago I was in there and this guy was starting to get agro with one of the staff. He had obviously bought a new tank setup the day before from there, and was back the next day after setting it up wanting to buy a heap of stock for it. The staff member was trying to explain about cycling a tank, as well as trying to explain about overstocking and best not mix the types of african cichlids this guy was wanting. They customer was getting agro, and saying he "knew what I'm doing..."etc. The staff member was a young uni student who is also a cichlid enthusiast, and has his dream part time job. I ended up getting the aquarium section manager and assistant manager. They got the guy to calm down some. They ended up selling the guy the fish he wanted, but telling him they were not responsible for when they all died as the tank cycled, or killed each other. And told him not to come back on them as they warned him repeatedly. The guy said he wouldn't be back and told them to f*ck off as he walked out.

Then yesterday, same staff member is serving this guy who wants to buy four baby 2 inch oscars. He asks the customer what size tank, how many litres etc. The guy couldn't even tell him, and was giving a 'what are you talking about look'. The staff member starts going "a two foot tank, three foot, four foot..." and the guy says yeah a four foot. Satff member looks at me and we both roll our eyes. Staff member starts trying to explain that's too small, oscars are messy eater, what's the filtration like etc. The guy goes "look I want four of them, two will get killed and I'll be left with two...I want an orange one, an albino one and two of those black and red ones". While the staff member is catching the oscars, the customer turns to me and gives me one of those looks. I said "mate if it was up to me I wouldn't sell you the fish, becuase I reckon you have no idea what your doing". Then I turned and walked away before he decided to thump me.

At the end of the day these guys are there to make a buck. They try to make sure the customer knows what they are doing, but will still make the sale when it's plainly obvious the customer has no idea

However, in general I support my LFS as I know the owners and staff and they know me. I know if I'm buying there, I'm getting a discount as a regular customeron anything, as opposed to having to pay a yearly " $25 club membership fee" at a pet barn for a 10% discount on live stock.


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## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

I voted yes, the only problem I have is there isn't really 1 around. I have a LFS (well garden centre really) about 8 minute drive away, however they only have 7 tanks, and 3 of those are coldwater. I do go there for little bits and pieces,

My fish shop however is a "chain" brand, however the managers of those stores are in control, so you will a lot of personal preferences there, I'm lucky in the way that they have a lot of cichlids (in particular Malawi's and Geos) though I have to travel 60 miles to get there (so a 120 round trip)

locally there are 3 fish shops, 2 of which are awful, and the 1 (the 1 in the garden centre) is fairly good, the quality of the fish isn't bad, though nowadays I'm into more "exotic" species.


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## marge618

*TheFishGuy*

If the sales people follow your directions everyone...especially the fish... will be better off. (But, shouldn't have been instructed when hired?)


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## TheFishGuy

Well Marge, They are instructed to not say anything because they tend to misinform people. That's what the manager told me... that and they tell them to blow in the bags... :? :roll:


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## Skimboarder_07

I'm personally into more community fish so I would not spend money on filler fish like tetras, mollies or platies; however on the fish that I was showcasing in the tank wether it be angels or gouramis i would go to a ma and pa store and pay a little extra as long as that little extra is getting me a little more size and quality which it almost always does


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## gheitman

For me it isn't a tough decision on whether to buy fish (and plants) from my LFS or a super store (a la Petsmart). My LFS generally has more varied species that are larger and healthier than the super store and they are usually cheaper too. I have bought almost all of my fish and plants there with the exception of a few species they don't stock that I ended up getting through AquaBid or a specialized dealer.

Now my equipment on the other hand I tend to buy online both because of better selection and price. The exceptions to that are big items like tanks and stands.


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## Toby_H

I voted yes absolutelyâ€¦ and yes I do pay extra at local mom & pop stores on a regular basis (Frank N Pegs for those local to Charlotte).

I am also willing to pay a little more at locally owned hardware stores as opposed to always going to Home Depot.

Iâ€™m by no means a true student of economics but I do understand the value of supporting the local economy as well as some of the problems with feeding tons of money into corporate America. I want to support those who support what I support, not those who are willing to increase their profit margins at the expense of what I supportâ€¦

Iâ€™m not saying chain stores are evil, wrong or bad and I do shop at PetSmart. But I also value the smaller locally owned stores and do my part to give them the word of mouth advertisement they deserve (if they deserve it) as well as offer them my support through doing business with them.


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