# MY JACK DEMSEY TURNED BLACK AND SWIMMING WEIRD



## Arianna777

Hi I adopted American Jack Dempsey 2,5 month ago Male about 3,4 years old 3 weeks ago he turned completely black and he swimming weird I treat him from Hexamida with METROPLEX it's didt help so he doesn't have Hexamida he has a swim bladder problem I just don't know what can cause it and how I can help him ? Please tell me what should I do??
Thank you


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## Arianna777

His water is fine but you can see on the picture what he swimms weird tail down


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## ken31cay

Jack Dempsey's usually turn lighter when sick, and darker to show aggression or mating behavior. But the odd swimming behavior might also be a response to internal parasites IMO. I know you mentioned the water is fine, but what is your nitrates reading?

1. Please give tank dimensions.
2. How long has the tank been running?
3. What is you water change schedule - % changed and frequency.
4. List tankmates: species and sizes.
5. List any fish recently added to tank.


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## Arianna777

Hi thank you for answering
Nitrate 10
pH 7.0
Ammonia 0
NITRITE 0
His aqurium is only 20 gallons I adopted him and his old aqurium was 20 gallons too but when he goes better I already decided to buy him 40 gallons now he is in STREESS I can put him in a new aqurium
Tank been running 2,5 month it's only him no other fishes the filtration I have for 50 gallon aqurium
Every week 25%
But last week when we treated his aqurium with Metronidozole we changed 25% every day for 5 days


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## ken31cay

Water parameters look good.



Arianna777 said:


> His aqurium is only 20 gallons I adopted him and his old aqurium was 20 gallons too but when he goes better I already decided to buy him 40 gallons now he is in STREESS I can put him in a new aqurium


So he's still in his original 20gal or you recently put him in a 40gal then back to the 20gal?



> Tank been running 2,5 month it's only him no other fishes the filtration I have for 50 gallon aqurium
> Every week 25%
> But last week when we treated his aqurium with Metronidozole we changed 25% every day for 5 days


What food do you feed and when is the last time he ate? Depending on this answer I would do one of the below options. Bear in mind this is only my opinion and what I would personally do in the situation.

1. If he has eaten recently: put salt (sodium chloride) in the water @ 1 Tablespoon per 5gal of tank water, keep feeding as normal. Look for improvement in the next 5-10 days.
2. If he hasn't eaten in weeks: in this case the fish would be doubly weakened since he's also been treated with meds that didn't help. IMO the outlook for survival isn't as good as if he is currently eating. But I suppose I would try API General Cure and hope that by some miracle he improves.

I wouldn't do both salt + meds together. I hope your fish survives.


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## Arianna777

No his original aqurium was 20 gallons I put him in 10 gallons because my mom didt want a bigger aqurium I told her it's to small so we bought him a 20 gallons 2 month ago but now I'm ready to put him in 40 gallon aqurium I just don't want to do it right now because he is in stress and sick
He eats very good as before he always hungry but we don't feed him a lot 2 times per day 4 pellets not more or flakes or frozen shrimps or cucumber or pees green
What kind of salt do you mean Epson salt?


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## Arianna777

Some veterinarian who I contacted online he told me to do KANAPLEX is it fine for general cure? 
And why my fish like that any guess?
Thank you


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## Deeda

Aquarium salt or any salt that is only sodium chloride with no additives.


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## Arianna777

No API general cure it's from parasites, hole in the head aka Hexamida
The best treatment for that is Metronedozole which I already done it he doesn't have parasites


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## ken31cay

Deeda said:


> Aquarium salt or any salt that is only sodium chloride with no additives.


Like Deeda said, this is the same salt you flavor food with. Aquarium salt (buy at the pet store/fish store), non-iodized or Kosher Salt which are common in most grocery stores in the US.


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## ken31cay

Arianna777 said:


> No his original aqurium was 20 gallons I put him in 10 gallons because my mom didt want a bigger aqurium I told her it's to small so we bought him a 20 gallons 2 month ago but now I'm ready to put him in 40 gallon aqurium I just don't want to do it right now because he is in stress and sick
> He eats very good as before he always hungry but we don't feed him a lot 2 times per day 4 pellets not more or flakes or frozen shrimps or cucumber or pees green
> What kind of salt do you mean Epson salt?


I wouldn't move him to another tank until he improves. Do you know what size the pellets are - 1mm or 2mm, etc? Assuming you're feeding him enough, I would continue as you have been with the feeding.


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## Arianna777

Yes I know you right he was very stressed when we add him in one aqurium than to another but he was healthy now he is not so of cause I will wait
I giving him medium pellet Hikilari company for Cichlid


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## Arianna777

So Aqurium salt ok
But what for how it's will help ?
I used Epson salt to help him swimm they say it's helps if he has a swimm bladder
Thanks


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## ken31cay

Arianna777 said:


> No API general cure it's from parasites, hole in the head aka Hexamida
> The best treatment for that is Metronedozole which I already done it he doesn't have parasites


API General Cure is for a "wide variety of parasitic diseases". But as I said I wouldn't medicate again if he's eating.


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## Arianna777

Ok but do you know what should I do?
Someone recommend me to do KANAPLEX 
I did give him METROPLEX it's from Hexamida but he kind of still the same and that person told me to do anibiotic like Kanaplex
But it's to much meds my mom she live with the fish lol she saying we gonna poison him
So you saying no meds , no salt ?
Thank you 
I'm very appreciated you helping me


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## ken31cay

Arianna,

I can't tell you for sure what you should do. I already posted what I would do based on the info provided in your first three posts. But you have to decide based on all the information, which only you have. I think you should get your mom involved and ask her to help you decide.


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## Arianna777

Oh no hon she doesn't know about fishes anything I'm dictating her what to do 
But what would you do if you treated tank with Metronidozole for 5 days than feed a fish with METROPLEX for 1 week
Would you do a Kanaplex it's for infections and bacteria
Of cause after a week or two break?


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## ken31cay

> Would you do a Kanaplex it's for infections and bacteria
> Of cause after a week or two break?


Yes I would give him some time to recover with just fresh, clean water before trying more meds. IME meds can cause more harm than good when I've dealt with sick fish. Using the correct meds can help but what I've found to help fish recover a great deal more has simply been fresh, clean water in a stress-free environment, with salt when applicable. Be patient and watch for improvement. Salt (the proper amount, temporarily during treatment) won't hurt your fish and can help in various ways.


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## Arianna777

Thank you


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## ken31cay

If you're going to add salt then add 4 level tablespoons to the 20gal aquarium. Dissolve the salt in a separate container of water before adding evenly throughout the aquarium. The salt will ease stress by aiding fish's breathing and ward off secondary infections. I would do this for around 14 days and see if he improves. Continue water changes but make them as quiet & stress-free as possible for your fish. Continue feeding as normal.


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## Arianna777

Ok Thank you so much


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## Arianna777

Is this will work


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## Arianna777

Or this one better?


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## Oscar6

A major factor here is, you don't have a specific diagnosis of the problem, if there is one. JD is a finicky cichlid Immy experience, and any I have had would sit and pout for hours after a simple water change. It may be as simple as stress from cramped living quarters. I would move to the bigger tank asap. Ad for salt, it had a specific purpose, but imho, should not be a regular addition to a fresh water aquarium. Exceptions always exist, brackish water etc. But for regular JD, the cleaner, fresher the better. Eating regular is a sign he is likely ok. Lack of appetite and general malaise are sure signs of a problem. Clean water, adequate living space and quality diet nearly always wins


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## Oscar6

Just to add.. get him in a bigger tank, do 75 percent water changes every 5 days


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## Arianna777

I already buy him today a 40 gallon
He had probably Hexamida or something my mom gives him METROPLEX she saying he little better now 
Thank you 
You right when we change him water he always hiding in stress


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## Oscar6

Good that he may be doing better. Some advice for the future if I may.. try to resist medicating any fish without a solid diagnosis. Meds are harsh, and could do more damage. While 40g is obviously better than 20, a male JD can easily reach 10 ins and live 10 plus years. 40g is still a bit tight as a long term home. If you can someday manage, a standard 55 or 75 would be much better. Think this way.. a dog on a chain vs a dog in his own fenced in yard. Which one is happier? Best of luck to you and Mr. Dempsey


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## Arianna777

Of cause but I live in NY and can you believe it's no fish doctors around so I couldn't not try meds because I should do something we started do meds only after 2 weeks with no improvement
Yes I told my mom the same like if you have one room and you can't go outside like in April when it's was quarantine same like our boy Ivan he is too big for 20 gallons, she didn't want a bigger tank he lives with her I told her what he needs minimum 40 gallons so I bought 40 gallons but I will wait because he still in stress I cant put him now because he will be bad I don't want him get worst 
He need to get healthy 1 St


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## Arianna777

Thank you


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## ken31cay

Arianna777 said:


> our boy Ivan he is too big for 20 gallons, she didn't want a bigger tank he lives with her I told her what he needs minimum 40 gallons so I bought 40 gallons but I will wait because he still in stress I cant put him now because he will be bad I don't want him get worst
> He need to get healthy 1 St


I agree with Oscar6 that the small tank may be contributing to his stress and that moving him asap might help him recover. You mentioned that he is 3-4yrs old and if so then that 20gal is too small for him.

Important: if/when you move him to the larger tank, make the transition seamless; have everything ready in the new tank so that you can just net him out of the 20gal and put him right into the 40gal. Turn off the tank lights and keep room low-light/very dimly lit for 24hrs to help him adjust.

Let us know how it goes.


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## Arianna777

No he got sick from other reasons
But of cause I will cycle his new apartment 1st and everything I know
We never turn his lights he doesn't like the lights


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## Oscar6

No need to cycle the new tank.Its the filter that is the key. Fill new tank with fresh water, conditioned, plug in existing filter from the 20, add fish. Seeded bio media from the filter will allow a quick transfer. Keep temperature very close to what is in the 20. Do not use any water from the 20. Use 100 percent fresh


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## Arianna777

Why I can't use his old water???
How I know the old water must be added 100% or he will be very stressed it's his bacteria in it


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## Oscar6

Old water only has toxins on it. The bacteria is not free swimming in the water. The bulk of it resides in the filters bio media. Some clings to gravel and tank decorations. The filter is the key.


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## Arianna777

I'm sorry but I really don't think it's right
You should add the old water at least a little if it's bad
But when the water is good you can add more


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## Oscar6

I can absolutely guarantee I am right. Old water may be necessary to acclimate a fish that perhaps comes from very bad, or water of different hardness, or ph levels. From one tank to another in the same room, you don't need any old water. However, for your peace of mind, there is no harm in using some water from the 20. Maybe a 50/50 mix of old and new if that makes you feel better. As clean and pristine as possible is the major factor in cichlid health


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## Arianna777

Yes I was gonna do 50% on 50%
Thank u for your recommendations


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## DJRansome

Oscar6 is right. Beneficial organisms live on surfaces like filter media and do not float freely in the water.

Just match the parameters on new water. If your nitrates were high before reduce them but not drastically. (Per what Oscar6 said about if they come from very bad water).


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## ken31cay

Oscar6 said:


> Old water only has toxins on it. The bacteria is not free swimming in the water. The bulk of it resides in the filters bio media. Some clings to gravel and tank decorations. The filter is the key.


+1.

This is 100% correct. Transfer the filter from the 20gal you're currently using to the new tank and your new tank is now cycled. Don't clean the filter before transferring to the new tank, only if the filter is very dirty in which case you can gently rise or shake the filter media in the old tank water to get some of the gunk out while leaving the beneficial bacteria intact.


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## Arianna777

Is it the right salt for fresh water aqurium?


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## Deeda

Yes.


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## Arianna777

Thank you


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## Arianna777

Ok and last one question please is some one know where I can find him a decor big house where he will be able to hide because which I saw on the market and in the stores he won't feed in it


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## Deeda

You can use a new plain, non-decorated clay flower pot found in any garden supply store.


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## Arianna777

Thank you that's good idea


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## DJRansome

I thought you were not going to add salt.


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## Arianna777

Not right now he still on METROPLEX
Next week
Do I have to do it?


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## DJRansome

What is wrong with him? Oscar6 made the point that you don't know which med to use if you have not diagnosed an illness. More fish are killed by medicating incorrectly than by illness.


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## Arianna777

Ok what are you telling me to do?
The Vet online told me it's might be parasites
Because he turned black and has problem with swimming
So after a week of METROPLEX he got lighter and his tail started moves better
I know Im not a Doctor but you want me to do nothing?
Or maybe you know what ilness he has??? So tell me


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## Arianna777

Oscar Oscar
I'm sorry
Than maybe Oscar knows???


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## Arianna777

:


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