# Load bearing?



## abynum1 (Jul 30, 2017)

Hey guys. I decided (after I setup my tank) that I wanted to put a sump inside the stand. The only problem is that the 20 tall I was going to use won't fit.
I was thinking about just making an acrylic sump, but I have no idea how to figure what measurements will fit thru the door, since it will be going in at an angle.
I've seen where people have drained the tank to 50% or less, then removed the center brace long enough to put the sump in.
That really scares the heck out of me, and I was wondering if anyone has experience with this, as I don't want my tank to come crashing down.
The stand is a Marineland majesty. and I've included some pics that might be helpful.
Thanks!


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I would be a little nervous about that as well. Those stands aren't known for being the sturdiest lol. I would transfer the fish into a different container and drain the tank before removing braces. Also, I think you would be better off to buy a different glass aquarium versus what it would cost to buy the acrylic to build one plus you wouldn't have to worry about anything leaking or whether the joints bonded properly


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## abynum1 (Jul 30, 2017)

Well if I do end up removing the brace, then I can just go with the 20 gallon tall I have. Right now, it's about an inch too long to wedge it in there. Does anyone know if you can remove the black rims off of the aquarium, and will that reduce the dimensions any? It's an Aqueon brand.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Taking the trim off is a bit of a bear to do. 
I would look first at removing the center brace as it does little toward holding the tank center up. what it does do is give the doors a place to land as well as help to keep the front from warping. The tank center will not bend down. Many tanks are supported only at the ends. Think of how many college tanks are setting on stacks of cement blocks? 
Possibly the best reason for center braces is to make us feel better! 
But then if it does make you nervous, perhaps there is a way to find what size tank will fit through the current opening. Something stiff like thin plywood or even cardboard, cut to the length/width and keep trimming it down until it goes in? Make sure to keep it flat/level when trying to avoid skewing the results.


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## abynum1 (Jul 30, 2017)

PfunMo said:


> But then if it does make you nervous, perhaps there is a way to find what size tank will fit through the current opening. Something stiff like thin plywood or even cardboard, cut to the length/width and keep trimming it down until it goes in? Make sure to keep it flat/level when trying to avoid skewing the results.


That's a very good idea if i decide to make one, or look for a plastic container instead.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

I built a sump for my 125 and after it was complete, discovered the same issue. I ended up breaking down the 125, taking it off the stand so that the sump could be placed inside the stand from the top then replaced the tank. Your tank looks like a 4' tank, you might consider breaking it down and doing the same thing, assuming the sump would fit in from the top. No risk of screwing up the stand.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I would agree with Nodima that I would break down the tank and put the sump in from a different direction. The back might be a place to look as cutting and replacing the front brace will take a bit more finesse than doing the same on the back.
But when looking at it from a question of the tank sagging while the center prop is out, it really takes a lot to bend a board on the wide side. Thinking of a 1X6, we can easily bend it enough to break if we lay it down flat. But if we lay it on the 1"side and don't give it any way to bend sideways, we could walk across it with ease. In construction it is often good to add more support to things like a sagging ceiling, so a thing called a strongback is used. One easy way to do this is to screw 1X material to the sides of a 2X4 to make a "C" shape. This turns three pieces of reasonably weak lumber into a very strong beam. Laminated beams use the same idea. 
So how to go is then up to what other details are involved to make it a personal choice. Top, back, or front are all doable, depending on what you want and how the wood is put together.


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## abynum1 (Jul 30, 2017)

I have an idea, tell me how dumb it is:
What If I took a 20 gallon long aqueon tank, took the top rim off, along with the 2 side panes of glass? At that point, it would just be the bottom glass and the two ends held together by the bottom rim.
Then I could turn the tank on it's side, and just rotate the tank around the stand's center brace, and into the stand.
Of course, I would then have to replace/reseal the side panels, and put the top rim back on (while it's in the stand.)
Having the bottom rim intact, and putting the top rim back on, should make sure it's all square.
How doable, do you guys think that would be?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I think you'd be better off disassembling the stand lol


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Much depends on how the stand is built. If it is a normal cheap stand, the center brace may not have much more than glue holding it in place. Are you up on some ways to handle a glue joint if it doesn't have biscuits, etc. holding it in place. That would make it reasonably easy to get it out, even though it would take some time and finesse to do it and still look good when replaced. A thin blade in one of the oscillating multi-tools would be my choice and cutting from the back to avoid removing much of the visible side. It may still need some filler and refinish, though. Just no simple methods that I see. 
For adding it back, I would want to add a shim at both top and bottom to make it more sure to stay in place. It doesn't need much to provide the prop but on several used stands, I have seen the center getting loose from the door slamming. That makes me want to secure it better when rebuilding. 
Rebuilding the tank inside the stand? Not for me as I would think the clamps, etc. would not fit inside and then getting into the sump under the stand is not going to be something I want to do for that amount of labor. 
Depending on how well built/ terrible the stand is designed, one could also consider lifting it to put it on rollers. If the base is strong enough, I have used PVC pipe as rollers and moved tanks and stands out for flooring. But those have been DIY stands that I knew could handle the stress. The advantage being that you can do things on the back of the stand that will not look good enough for the public side.


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## abynum1 (Jul 30, 2017)

I guess I will just hold off on a sump/refugium then  My last hope was to reassemble the 20 long inside the stand. If that's a no go, then I don't know what to do other than tear down the whole thing, and I really don't want to do that.
Thanks for all the input guys!


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I hate to give up on a project before looking at all the prospects!
Maybe some more looking at what might be done? How large tank are we talking. Looks like maybe 40 gallon or under? Want to think about how it might be moved off the stand without total teardown. It can be done with some thought, planning and muscle. 
Something sturdy, that won't allow twisting of the top surface might be placed under the tank and then lifted off. Draining much of the water down to reduce load and then lifting one end (without twisting) as the 2X platform is worked under. Then when the tank is fully supported, several guys to lift it off to set aside while the stand is reworked? 
Gets back to how much you want to do it!


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## abynum1 (Jul 30, 2017)

It's a 75 gallon. 4 feet long.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Okay! My eyes can lead me off course, for sure. That size makes it harder and more risk. You may be right to just ride with what you have rather than risk a major disaster. I have a 75 and it is a real heavy weight to move if it is not totally drained. I did pry it up and put rollers under the stand when replacing the floor cover but it took more work than I can recommend!


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## abynum1 (Jul 30, 2017)

Yea. that's what I figured. I'll probably just wait it out. I was hoping the whole taking the 20g long apart and putting it back together inside the stand would have been an option.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

PfunMo said:


> Okay! My eyes can lead me off course, for sure. That size makes it harder and more risk. You may be right to just ride with what you have rather than risk a major disaster. I have a 75 and it is a real heavy weight to move if it is not totally drained. I did pry it up and put rollers under the stand when replacing the floor cover but it took more work than I can recommend!


Funny after dealing with several 6' tanks, I look at a 75 as an easily moved object!!! Last winter, we had a "incident" where my 75 planted tank had to be broken down and moved due to a leaking hose. Once all the water and plants were removed, it was not too bad to move the tank with gravel from the stand across the room to the kitchen table temporarily while we dried up the mess. Just took me and a neighbor, neither of us are particularly strong guys.

If you think out your steps, and just do it, you'll find that once done you might wonder why you waited so long. My guess is that it could be done in 3-4 hours total.

To the OP - what is driving you to want to install a sump on this tank?


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

nodima said:


> PfunMo said:
> 
> 
> > Okay! My eyes can lead me off course, for sure. That size makes it harder and more risk. You may be right to just ride with what you have rather than risk a major disaster. I have a 75 and it is a real heavy weight to move if it is not totally drained. I did pry it up and put rollers under the stand when replacing the floor cover but it took more work than I can recommend!
> ...


So much of what we do is changed by the experience and methods we use. When dealing with forums, it is easy to assume things that are not true and it is really hard to get a firm idea of what level the poster may be. I "assumed" a small tank and "assumed" a less experienced user. Both may be wrong but what one person can do is often impossible for some who have less experience. Asking about the need of the center brace led me to think of the less experienced person who might have lots of trouble if he put a twist on a tank while moving. 
My personal thoughts are often a factor in my answers. I am not a great fan of sumps under a tank as I find them not good for me. So looking at moving a six foot tank to gain a sump, just makes it less important. 
I like to advise folks but only to the point where I find they don't want to do that! Where there is enough drive, there is often a way.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I'll give my 2 cents, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I wouldn't suggest changing over to a sump on an established tank. Sumps can be a pain, especially diy sumps, to get set up and running properly and it's much better to work out the kinks on a fishless tank


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

PfunMo said:


> nodima said:
> 
> 
> > PfunMo said:
> ...


Interesting - I had assumed the center brace in question is the one on the stand, not a tank brace.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Interesting - I had assumed the center brace in question is the one on the stand, not a tank brace.[/quote]
It is the one on the stand itself... The OP wants to remove the center brace from the stand to be able to fit a 20 gallon long under the stand for a sump.


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## abynum1 (Jul 30, 2017)

Yep, it's definitely the brace on the stand I was referring to.
I've had sumps before (with refugiums) and to be honest, I enjoyed them almost as much I did the display tanks. I like to put my heater, and other equipment in there, but mostly I like having a refugium to put plants, inverts, maybe even temporarily house a bullied fish (or the bully) if needed. I don't know why, but I've always liked them. I wasn't going to replace my existing filters, just supplement them while adding more water volume.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Can you fit a regular 20 gallon tank without cutting


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## abynum1 (Jul 30, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Can you fit a regular 20 gallon tank without cutting


No, neither one will work. A 15 gallon should, but i can't find one anywhere. What makes taking a tank apart and reassembling inside the stand so hard?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

It's just going to be difficult to get everything sealed properly without being able to work in an open space.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

abynum1 said:


> caldwelldaniel26 said:
> 
> 
> > Can you fit a regular 20 gallon tank without cutting
> ...


I also thought we were all talking about removing the center brace on the stand!

But anyway, what I see about the build it inside is just the space issue and how we mostly like to clamp or turn the new tank over while working on it. I just can't see doing a good job with the limited space under a stand. Most likely, it could be done??? Just not something I would ever want to start. 
Do you feel there is room to get head, arms and such in and around to do the sealing? One could work out using different methods to clamp the panels together if that would move the project along. That's where you being on the scene lets you see things that we can only guess at from limited info. 
But I admit to an aversion to working with glass. I will work with wood for hours to avoid working with glass for ten minutes!


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