# 110 Gallon Mbuna Stocking



## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Hello,

I am getting ready to begin restocking my 110 gallon (48"Lx18"Dx30"H) tank with Mbuna. I had a mixed setup that I wasn't very happy with, so I sold all of the fish except for my prized Tropheus Duboisi, Pink Peacock Hybrid, and one Yellow lab which was in quarantine and is now healed. The tank has an Eheim 2217 cannister and a large wet/dry sump with another 30 gallons of water capacity below. My bioligical filters are established, and filtration and water movement will be more than adequate, so my questions are more in related to the mix of fish and the method for adding them.

Here is the stocking list I am thinking of going with. I will buy some of the fish as juvenile F1 from an online breeder and some from the LFS.

Metriaclima Emmiltos "Red Top Zebra" - 6

Pseudotropheus socolofi "Albino Snow White Socolofi" - 6

Pseudotropheus Sp. "Acei" - 4

Labidochromis Caeruleus "Electric Yellow" - 4 total (One adult existing)

Iodotropheus Sprengerae "Rusty" 4

My questions are:

-Is this combination of Mbuna ok? Aggression?

-What about the quantities? Should I eliminate some of the variety and up the quantities of others? Breeding is not my main goal, but I want a well balanced tank.

- I am planning on adding them in groups, one species at a time - thoughts? Would it be better to add two groups at a time?

- What is the best way to treat the fish for parasites, bloat, etc.. before adding them to the main tank? I have a 20 gallon quarantine ready to go.

Thanks in advance!


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## benny71 (Sep 30, 2010)

First off, awesome tank! I love the background.

I'm no expert, but I think the general "expert" consensus around here is 1m:5f and keep it to just 3 species in a 4' tank.

If you add them by species, start with the least aggressive and work your way down the line.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Thanks for the comment and advice 

What about this:

1st - Pseudotropheus Sp. "Acei" - 6

2nd - Pseudotropheus socolofi "Albino Snow White Socolofi" - 6

3rd - Metriaclima Emmiltos "Red Top Zebra" - 6

Is it ok to have Acei and Socolofi in the same tank, or will they crossbreed?
I may end up keeping the dominant male from each group and adding different species in the future.

I WANT AN 8 FOOT TANK


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Hey, so yes, your tank is 4ft long, but it's also a good deal wider, so I think you'd do OK with* 4 *species, in lieu of 3. I'd go with labs, acei, zebras, and rusties.

The albinos might keep you from cultivating fry. If you don't plan to keep fry, then choose the 3 you like. And 1m:4-5f works, but with labs, acei, and rusties can do less, 1m:3f and do just as well (they're more peaceful). Get 5 females if you can, but this is just in case you have trouble finding the stock. I'd make sure you only have one zebra male though.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

toume said:


> Hey, so yes, your tank is 4ft long, but it's also a good deal wider, so I think you'd do OK with* 4 *species, in lieu of 3. I'd go with labs, acei, zebras, and rusties.
> 
> The albinos might keep you from cultivating fry. If you don't plan to keep fry, then choose the 3 you like. And 1m:4-5f works, but with labs, acei, and rusties can do less, 1m:3f and do just as well (they're more peaceful). Get 5 females if you can, but this is just in case you have trouble finding the stock. I'd make sure you only have one zebra male though.


Thanks,

I have just read that labs and zebras my crossbreed. Any experience with this?

Will the Albino Socolofi have trouble reproducing, or are saying they will hinder the other species in the tank? I really love the way the Socolofi look in my tank :fish:


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## AnThRaXx (Apr 21, 2008)

i also second the reccomend of 4 species in there. more aceis more yellows and just watch the fry as they develop. if u see qualities that u find undiserable or questionable dont sell as for sure breeds. other then that i wouldnt worry too much about hybridization. all mbuna can hybrid they just dont typically do so.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Then this is it:

Pseudotropheus Sp. "Acei" - 6

Pseudotropheus socolofi "Albino Snow White Socolofi" - 6

Iodotropheus Sprengerae "Rusty" 6

Labidochromis Caeruleus "Electric Yellow" - 6

I really like the pics of Metriaclima Emmiltos "Red Top Zebra", but I won't be able to get them at the LFS, plus it seams like they may appear similar to the Acei once they are adults. Also, they may be a little more aggressive then the other 3 species I have selected which are pretty mild tempered. Has anyone had experience with Red Top Zebras?


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

I know red zebras (met. estherae) will crossbreed with yellow labs b/c of similar body shape and look (mine are currently doing so as we speak :lol: ), but I haven't heard about that happening with red tops.

All Mbunas can cross--but if you provide the right amount of females for the males, you lessen the probability of crossbreeding. However, labs and red zebra hybrids are *really *common. So, it'd be a gamble.

About the albino socolofi--I read somewhere that all albinos are created through hybridization and do not occur naturally (like OBs--the orange blotched), but it's something fish keepers have specifically bred for, and it's now accepted. My understanding is that it means that they'll cross with anything in your tank, and you shouldn't keep any fry from your tank (b/c you can't be sure who the parents are) <- Of course I know people remove the male and female and then encourage breeding in a separate tank (to make sure)...so there are ways.

Maybe I'm wrong on this though? I'll try to find the article I was reading...


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

What I find odd is the Metriaclima Emmiltos doesn't look like any other Metriaclima (Ice Blue, etc).

My yellow lab is now holding a second time in 7 weeks. Apparently she's 'easy'. The first dad was an Ice Blue Zebra; not sure on the 2nd.

If by Red Top Zebra you mean Metriaclima Greshakei - yes. I love my dominant male (check my tank profile to see him, it's a little pale thanks to lighting/finishing), I think I ended up with 1 sub-dominant male and 2 smaller females.


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## benny71 (Sep 30, 2010)

Hey, so yes, your tank is 4ft long, but it's also a good deal wider, so I think you'd do OK with 4 species, in lieu of 3.



AnThRaXx said:


> i also second the reccomend of 4 species in there. more aceis more yellows and just watch the fry as they develop. if u see qualities that u find undiserable or questionable dont sell as for sure breeds. other then that i wouldnt worry too much about hybridization. all mbuna can hybrid they just dont typically do so.


I don't know much, but shouldn't that massive 3d background come into play here? The tank isn't all that "deep" with that awesome BG in there is it?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have never reduced my stocking due to significant space occupied by 3D backgrounds (although maytbe I should have, just didn't think of it :lol: ) and it's worked for me for the last five years.


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

I guess it depends on how big the background is, and if it has any tunnels through it (I've seen some that look big, but then have mazes all throughout--pretty nice/cool).

I'd still say that 3 species in a 110g is pretty sparse. I _know _ foot print is important, but why should you stock a 55g the same as a 110? That seems absurd....a 55, 75, 90, 110 are all 4ft tanks, and the difference is only in width and height.

I realize most fish decide territories, most often, side-to-side...but the OP isn't stocking overly aggressive species that need to be worried over.

Socolofi can be aggressive, but not anything close to unmanageable. 
Labs can also be more aggressive (mine are--match my red zebras), but they aren't as picky on territories (as I've seen/been told by others on this forum).
Acei aren't either--the ones I've seen are more likely to swim out in the open (b/c they're larger/nicer and get kicked out by the more aggressive).


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

species count seems to be on length of tank.

# of fish would be based on foot-print (sq.ft.)

Someone back me up here...


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Glaneon said:



> # of fish would be based on foot-print (sq.ft.)


You mean the total number of fish? So, if a 4 ft tank, you'd suggest 3 species, but if it's a 75 instead of a 55, you'd do higher numbers of each species?

I've read plenty of stocking posts (as I plan to upgrade again soon  ), and I've seen many go ahead's for 4 species in a 75g, so my assumption (and you know how it is with assumptions :wink: ) is that 4 would work in a 110.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

That's what I'm gathering from the veterans - no one has really put it in those terms (that I've read)... but there's a pattern to their recommenations and I think that's it.

I thought it was 4 in a 75 (4') & 5 in a 125 (6').

If it's a tall tank, you prolly could add Acei as an additional (doesn't count against species count) since they're more mid-tank swimmers.


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Glaneon said:


> I thought it was 4 in a 75 (4') & 5 in a 125 (6').


Yeah, that was my assumption too. 
There's no set rule for stocking--just opinion and experience. 
I'm kind of getting the opinion that if people want to experiment, they should b/c 1) they're probably going to do it anyway, and 2) we can all learn from it. They just need to be aware of and prepare for the consequences.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Glaneon said:


> What I find odd is the Metriaclima Emmiltos doesn't look like any other Metriaclima (Ice Blue, etc).
> 
> If by Red Top Zebra you mean Metriaclima Greshakei - yes. I love my dominant male (check my tank profile to see him, it's a little pale thanks to lighting/finishing), I think I ended up with 1 sub-dominant male and 2 smaller females.


What I meant by "Red Top Zebra" was _Metriaclima pyrsonotos _(At least I think) 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1790

I originally found the fish at this link which calls the fish _Metriaclima emmiltos_:
http://www.livefishdirect.com/store.php?fid=18

I believe they are very similar, maybe from different parts of the lake :-? 
This forum doesn't have _Metriaclima emmiltos_ listed in the library :-? :-? :-?

The fish in your tank looks very similar, but a little lighter. Is it a female?


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Glaneon said:


> That's what I'm gathering from the veterans - no one has really put it in those terms (that I've read)... but there's a pattern to their recommenations and I think that's it.
> 
> I thought it was 4 in a 75 (4') & 5 in a 125 (6').
> If it's a tall tank, you prolly could add Acei as an additional (doesn't count against species count) since they're more mid-tank swimmers.


That was my line of thinking... Did you mean Acei as the fourth species or the 5th in my tank?

Here's the link to my 3D background update :dancing: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... &&start=15

It was way huge at first which is why I sold some fish, moved some fish and took my time rebuilding it. Now, it has the full 18" width along the bottom of the tank. The fish can swim in and out in a few hiding locations, but not where I can't get to them if they are sick or injured which was a major issue before.

My main goal is variety and color, but if breeding does occur, I don't want hybridization, as I'm set up with a 20 Gal for handling the fry.

Would yall agree that I should add the Acei first? They seem like the most docile :fish:

Then the Electric Yellows, Rusty's, Socolofi (Still not sure if they'll hybridize :-?) and maybe then some Red Top Zebra if the tank can handle it :drooling:


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

I would do them all at once if you're able (and the fish are juvies) <- generally, this is the forum consensus for adding new fish. You'll have to watch your nitrite levels, and do WCs as necessary in the first week (I had to do 2/week for 2 weeks till it stabilized).

If the fish are grown (2"+), I'd add in groups, and rearrange rocks each time <- hence why doing it all at once can be easier, adding the most aggressive last (Socolofi/zebras)

I think 5 species would definitely be too much, especially since there's a background taking up some depth. I'd do four species max, and with Aceis, rusties, labs, and Socolofis, there shouldn't be too much issue with aggression--the Socs will be dom most likely. You could add the zebras _in lieu of _one of the others...the labs could potentially cross with them, but having the correct ratios is always a good deterrent.

I think if you go with the first 4, you're looking at a nice colorful tank, no real repeating colors, with a low possibility of hybridization. The zebras would be a wild card (a more aggressive one <- if you choose them, maybe switch them out for the Socs so there's only one aggressive species in there).


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Thanks Toume, and thanks everyone for all of the input :thumb:

I had kinda decided that the Zebras would be last if at all. All of my other selections are reletively passive as far as the Mbuna go. I will pick and choose as I move forward to try and get the M:F ratios right. I'm getting pretty excited. This will be the first time I've taken the time to set up my tank correctly and really paid attention to stocking, ease of maintenance, handling sick fish, etc... I wish I would've spent a little more time on the forum in the past :roll:


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Just remember that some people have seen a fair amount of aggression in Socolofis--personally, I haven't kept them for a long enough period to say for sure on that matter (the poor things got killed off by preexisting cichlids).


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

I had 3 Socolofi in my mixed tank, and they were quite docile. Maybe because they shared the space with a big mouthed Venustus (Who thought my Demasoni was Delicious  ). Good to know though that they could become a problem in an all Mbuna tank. It's amazing how the balanced tank can tip drastically with one fish.


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## benny71 (Sep 30, 2010)

I have a ~4" Socolofi in a tank with Flametail Peacocks and Yellow labs...There are 19 fish in the tank, only 3 of which are bigger than him/her and they all get along great.

I've had him/her for about 8-9 months(got it when it was about 1.5 inches), been in the current tank for almost 3 months and I've seen no signs of aggression from either side yet.

I'm really hoping he/she works out in there, because I don't have any other place for it and it's my favorite fish.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

benny71 said:


> I have a ~4" Socolofi in a tank with Flametail Peacocks and Yellow labs...There are 19 fish in the tank, only 3 of which are bigger than him/her and they all get along great.
> 
> I've had him/her for about 8-9 months(got it when it was about 1.5 inches), been in the current tank for almost 3 months and I've seen no signs of aggression from either side yet.
> 
> I'm really hoping he/she works out in there, because I don't have any other place for it and it's my favorite fish.


How large is your tank?


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## benny71 (Sep 30, 2010)

fish_addiction said:


> benny71 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a ~4" Socolofi in a tank with Flametail Peacocks and Yellow labs...There are 19 fish in the tank, only 3 of which are bigger than him/her and they all get along great.
> ...


It's only a 55g, but most of the Peacocks are juvies and unable to be sexed yet(Right now I know I have 2 males and 2 females), so that number will be smaller eventually.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

Yeah, I have one regular Soc and he's gorgeous. I love the way his bars appear and disappear.

I went with the Snow White Socs because once they're larger, they're pretty - and unlikely to cross-breed with anything else I have.


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

See, I thought Socolofis were as docile as Acei (<- the ones my friend has certainly are), but that's not the story I heard on this forum...


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

Yeah.. I've read opposite - they're a little more aggressive (from reading on here) - which, doesn't surprise me as they have the body like a Ps Elongatus...

So far all the longer (round) body fish are more aggressive: Maingano, Auratus, Ps Elongatus, Socolofi...

They all have similar body shape, which makes me wonder why they're not in the same species /genus whatever (but unlike the metriaclima or aulonocara)


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Ah but three in a 55G. So one extra species if your tank is wider.

I don't think there is a formula, but if you stare at the cookie cutters and read posts long enough, those seem to be good starting places to get an idea of stocking. And then customize once you choose species.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Well, I just picked up 6 Acei and 5 Electric Yellow at the LFS and put them in the 20G Quarantine tank :dancing: The Acei are about 3/4"to 1", and the Labs are about 1"to1-1/4". I'll be treating for parasites, just to make sure before I add them to the big tank. I wanted to get some Socolofi today too, but they were all at least 2", and I was afraid that they would dominate the tiny Acei. I'll wait on the Socolofi until the other fish have had a chance to grow a bit.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

fish_addiction said:


> Well, I just picked up 6 Acei and 5 Electric Yellow at the LFS and put them in the 20G Quarantine tank :dancing: The Acei are about 3/4"to 1", and the Labs are about 1"to1-1/4". I'll be treating for parasites, just to make sure before I add them to the big tank. I wanted to get some Socolofi today too, but they were all at least 2", and I was afraid that they would dominate the tiny Acei. I'll wait on the Socolofi until the other fish have had a chance to grow a bit.


You shouldn't need to treat for parasites unless they are wild-caught fish straight from the lake or if there are some signs that they have parasites. Some of those parasite meds are pretty strong and can cause stress and other side-effects, so it's best to not treat unless necessary.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

Also, forgot to mention that I love the look of your tank! It looks very natural.

Your stocking plan seems good too. I think 4 species should be ok. :thumb:


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Unless by parasite, you mean ich? The white spots? 
Otherwise, if you don't see visible signs, +1 are not treating unless absolutely necessary.
There can be negative side affects to using meds...


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

toume said:


> Unless by parasite, you mean ich? The white spots?
> Otherwise, if you don't see visible signs, +1 are not treating unless absolutely necessary.
> There can be negative side affects to using meds...


I meant internal parasites like sunken belly. I just posted a new thread under illness, health and nutrition. I've had issues in the past with bringing in new fish and sunken belly, bloat, etc.. Come to think of it, they were larger fish, so they may have been W/C or at least from someone's infected aquarium.

I have three fish currently in my 110G - Tropheus Duboisi (4"), Auloncora Firesfish (4") and one Yellow Lab (3"). I don't think I'll have any aggression problems when I add the new fish to the big tank, but I wanted to make sure I didn't introduce any parasites, etc.. Thoughts?

Thanks for the comment Kanorin  I've spent a great deal of time neglecting my wife during my tank build :roll: I've actually updated the 3D background and added some more "rocks" to the side and top. I'll post more pics once I get it full of :fish:


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Always good to be careful. The sunken belly could be b/c they have been sort of starved? I've gotten some like this...if yes, you have to be careful introducing them b/c they'll be weaker than the others.

Hm....shouldn't be too bad, especially if you're adding a bunch of new fish at once (so it's not just one new guy to haggle). Experience says to rearrange your tank too, but if there are only 3 more peaceful guys in there....I'm not sure.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Yah,

I'm gonna keep an eye on them for a few days before I put em in the main tank. I'm definately going to go with the Socolofi as my 4th addition, but now I'm starting to lean away from the Rusty's as my 3rd choice as I noticed they're Dimorphic, which doesn't really go with my theme of "More color". Any ideas?


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

So, Socolofi...and what were your other two?

I always keep my new fish in the quarantine tank for a month to ensure there's no ich b/c it only took ich destroying my tank once for me to be extra careful.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Electric Yellow and Acei that I picked up today.

I'm gonna keep the 20 gallon a little warmer and feed alot so they'll grow fast

I've never had iche in a freshwater, but it wiped out my 55 Gal FOWLR in a week which promptly converted me back to Cichlids.


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