# using canister filter in tiered tank setup???



## cartman (Oct 15, 2008)

I'm looking at getting a couple of breeding tanks - specifically, two 6 foot tanks with internal dividers on a single rack giving effectively 10 seperate tanks, all sharing the same water

the top tank has an weir/overflow into the bottom tank so obviously I need to get the water back up into the top tank (the bottom tank has no such overflow to make use of a sump filter)

I've seen setups like this that use canister filter(s) to return the water to the top tank(s), I'm wondering what experiences are out there using canister filters to do this - specifically are there any issues in doing so; any issues with losing power and back flowing (_I assume in this case so long as the outlet is high enough in the tank it won't be an issue as it will break the syphon when the water level gets to the level of the outlet_); any other experiences good or bad to consider & help make a decision on whether or not to go with this

BTW, if I go ahead I would be likely to consider using my existing Fluval FX5 to do the job and maybe even a 305 or similar to go with it


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I would think this would work fine. Either raise the outflow like you said, or put a check valve in the 
return line. They get a bad rap for being high risk, but they've served me well for years.

if the canister is low enough, then you may not even get a siphon through it. You may just have to be 
concerned with the bottom tank handling what comes from the overflow of the top tank. Easy enough 
to test. Only issue with that is you'll lose quite a bit of gph if it sits considerably below the return level. 
But you may not have a choice because some need to sit at a certain level in relation to the tank in order 
to work properly.

My only other thought is that I've never liked the setup where one tank flows into another. You're just 
pushing waste from one tank to another and hoping it gets picked up in the lower tank. I'd just 
consider running a canister to each if you're going to run two canisters anyway.


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## cartman (Oct 15, 2008)

thx for ur insight tim

as for the bottom tank handling the overflow from the top tank, it would only ever flow down to the level of the overflow/wier/intank from the top tank wouldn't it, so as long as the bottom tank had sufficent room to handle that there should be no problem as far as I understand it???

as for water flowing from one tank to another, I've read on this and other forums where this is a good thing because of the increasing of the total water volume of the system which ultimately ensures any waste is diluted / has less of an impact than it would in a system with half the water - any heavy waste that doesn't make it into the bottom tank can be picked up during water changes - you also get enconomies of scale on things like filtration & heating etc - this is what has drawn me to considering such a setup in the first place ... is this thinking flawed?

there are other options where the tiers/rack have single tanks isolated from each other which I might consider if the above is not the best way

one more consideration (sorry)  ... there is another variation to the originally proposed setup I'm also considering (but didn't want to complicate the original question with it) ... however if you took the setup described in my original post, added an overflow/weir to the bottom tank and added a sump filter to the whole system does that change any of these considerations running a canister filter as described from the bottom (now middle) tank back to the top tank as described?

I've seen these setups, but never done one before, just trying to do my research before jumping in - any advice would be appreciated


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Single filter on two tanks is a good way to go for the reasons you stated, I just never liked the idea of 
one flowing into the other. I'm doing the same thing with six foot tanks. One over the other, but with 
the wet/dry idea you suggested that serves both. Rather than having one tank flow into the other, I'm 
going with separate drains and returns to each. I've got a long way to go, but here's a sneak peak.


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## cartman (Oct 15, 2008)

wow!!!! that's quite the setup you've got yourself there....i think my mrs would def. file for devorce if i had anything like that ahaha

thanks again for your thoughts - i'd never actually considered plumbing both directly to the one sump - simple & easy - always the best way

but i've just taken the plunge today, a bargain come up that I couldn't refuse - I've picked up two 6x2x2 tanks, one with a weir, plus a 5 foot sump, a gal. steel frame holding all three one above the other - now i just got to work out the best way to work the plumbing :-?

given what you've said Tim, now I'm thinking I might go with the tank with the weir on the bottom and use the sump filter on it - then use a canister or two for the top tank (stored on a shelf around the mid level so it/they don't have to work as hard as if they were on the floor

might see if i can find someone who wants to swap the one without the weir for one with then plumb them both directly to the sump - that would be ideal i think


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I had a fishroom set up using the approach you first suggested for about a year and was very happy with itâ€¦










I had 5 of these tiers (50 gal/ 50 gal/75 gal) and two smaller tiers (30 gal/10-10-10 gal/30 gal)â€¦

In the one pictured above, water flows from the bottom tank (75 gal) to the top tank (50 gal) via a 700 gph pumpâ€¦ through an overflow into the middle tank (50 gal)â€¦ then through an overflow into the bottom tank (75 gal)â€¦

The smaller system used the same basic concept but with a much more complicated plumbing system from the top tank (30 gal) to middle tanks which (almost) evenly divided the water coming from the top tank (30 gal) into three different 10 gal tanksâ€¦ then each 10 gal had a separate overflow into the bottom tank (30 gal).

On one of the larger tiers (50/50/75) I had a complicated plumbing system between the top and middle tank which put water into several 1 gal jars that sat in the middle tank and used a siphon to drain/balance them to the level of the middle tankâ€¦ this worked excellent for newly free swimming fry.

I had a long term plan to install an air system into the room and put a couple of sponge filters into each tank in the room, but had to move before I ever had the chance. The 50/50/75 gal systems described above functioned with only an AC 110 on the back of the bottom tank and the 700 gph pump pushing water from the bottom tank (75 gal) to the top tank (50 gal). The 30/10-10-10/30 gal tiers had an AC 110 on the bottom 30 gal and a 500 gph pump pushing water from the bottom 30 gal to the top 30 gal...

As Tim suggested would happen, this did allow waste from the upper tanks to be pushed to the middle then lower tankâ€¦ Plumbing each tank directly to a sump would have been better filtrationâ€™wise, but would have reduced my overall usable tanks by 1/3. To me I thought it would be well worth putting the additional responsibility on myself to do thorough maintenance than to loose this much space. Looking back practically, Iâ€™m glad I made that choice. This approach served me very wellâ€¦ yet I will also admit that the approach Tim is suggesting would make life easier, if you can afford to give up the spaceâ€¦

As mentioned, I used water pumps as opposed to canisters to move water to the upper tanks. If I had an FX5 laying around I'd try it. If that doesn't work I suggest looking at SEN pumps at Kensfish.com Ken seems to be a good guy and has great prices... the SEN pumps served me well...

The way I plumbed mine, the pump pushed water to the top tank, where the flow split into two PVC pipes that entered the tank. One released water at the bottom of the tank (disturbing settled waste) and the other released water right at the surface (causing surface agitation as well as breaking the siphon).

I had all the pumps plugged into a single power strip so with the push of one button I could kill all the pumps (and the AC filters) which made the fishroom dead quiet, as well as allowed me to do maintenance on the tanks without completely draining the bottom tank. Then when the water change was over pushing one button turned everything back on.

My first fishroom taught me a lot of things, many of those lessons through errors. But I am glad to say if/when I have the chance to do it over again my filtration will most likely stay the same.

Best of luck on your fish room adventure!


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## cartman (Oct 15, 2008)

thx for the info Toby - good to get this feedback from more experienced folk such as urself

i'm curious about one comment in particular - how is it you figure you would reduce your overall usage tank space by about a third if you were to plumb each tank directly to the sump?

this will be my first crack at sump filtration and while I reckon I understand it and know what's required (thanks to many hours of trawling this & other forums for information) I'm not sure how u will loose that usage tank space

the next phase of my fishroom adventure starts tomorrow with an 8 hour round trip to get the new 6x2x2 tanks etc :dancing:


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I have a setup like that at home with 3 tanks, two higher tan the others. Works great. You need to use a pump that is desighed for the appropriate lift. Canisters with pumps inside them are often designed to use the pressure on the incoming line so they won't pump water higher than the tank they are sucking it out of (depends on the model). I tried having an output on my fluvol 405 4' higher than the input and it didn't work so I got a submersible pump instead.

On the output of my pump I run it through some PVC outfitted with gate valves so I can control the flow to each tank.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

cartman said:


> i'm curious about one comment in particular - how is it you figure you would reduce your overall usage tank space by about a third if you were to plumb each tank directly to the sump?


In the 3 tank tiers I pictured above... I use all 3 tanks to house fish... if the bottom tank were a sump, it would house media and not fish... thus reducing it to a 2 fish tank + one sump tier as opposed to a 3 fish tank tier...


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## cartman (Oct 15, 2008)

Toby_H said:


> cartman said:
> 
> 
> > i'm curious about one comment in particular - how is it you figure you would reduce your overall usage tank space by about a third if you were to plumb each tank directly to the sump?
> ...


i get that - but the way it was said was like a third was lost due to plumbing each tank directly to the sump RATHER than one through the other then into the sump....i understood it to be say that there was tank space to be lost to plumb each directly to the sump rather than through each other & couldn't understand where the difference is

sounds like I mis-understood the original statement


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## John7429 (Apr 12, 2009)

WOW. nice preview!

I didn't read all the replies but... sump is the way to go!


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