# Jason's 75g CA Cichlid Community



## stalefish83

I'm going to try my hand at journaling my new 75 gallon Central American cichlid community. Bear with me, this is my first journal 

To give a little background, I had purchased this tank from craigslist for $200.00, it came with the lighting and filtration (sump). After much research I finally figured out how to get the sump flowing, then proceeded to give all the equipment a nice vinegar soak (this was originally used for a salt-water tank, so I wanted to get rid of all that residue).

Here's what I got from the guy:


Ballast


Filtration stuff


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## stalefish83

Sump tank


And my little diagram trying to figure out how this all works!


I then pieced it together how I thought it should go


Turns out I was right!

I then went to my LFS and talked to a guy there for about an hour about how to get it flowing (just to make sure my research was right and get it cemented in my brain) and what else I might need. I bought a pump from him (so it wasn't a complete waste of his time) as I saw this picture online:

And figured I'd need something like that... He told me it was to help maintain the siphon in the overflow/intake... so I figured why not. It also helps with water movement, which is good


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## stalefish83

Throughout the next few days I spent my lunches scouting the river by my work looking for rocks. It took three trips to gather rocks in my backpack (longboarding with a backpack full of rocks is a different kind of experience... speed gains wayyy quicker than I was ready for going down the hill along the river!)

Here's the puzzle pieces I collected from the river


And the bogwood I wanted to use


All was scrubbed, had boiling water ran over it, and vinegar tested. All was good!

Now, time to start getting the substrate ready and begin thinking about my scape... so stoked!


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## stalefish83

Just to clarify, I was way wrong on my little diagram above. Thanks to some much needed help I was able to figure out the picture just below it 

So moving on...

My two fish (male firemouth & female honduran red point) are waiting not-so patiently in a 10 gallon tank to the left of this main tank (they were removed from their previous 40g) and after doing a thorough substrate clean I begin adding the black sand:



Once all the sand is in I begin adding water and the rocks:



I have also saved some of the old tank water to use for the sump. As fate would have it, the media from the old tank's AC 110 HOB fits PERFECTLY!



I had cut a few other pieces of foam from the large white roll you can see in the first post, but this greatly restricted flow and the pump worked faster than the water was trickling in.

I decided to remove the extra foam, so I've got a filter sock, a small piece of white foam in the bottom center section, then the bio-media, then the foam from the AC 110, and it seems to be working better. Hopefully that'll hold true over time... I really don't want the pump to out-run everything else!


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## stalefish83

I should also apologize for these photos. The only camera I have is on my crappy phone...

To resume:

At this point (I should point out that it's getting near 2 AM at this point and the wife has long since gone to bed) the new water has all been added & treated, the sump has been filled with old tank water (well, not "filled," but you know) and water is flowing through the sump! I begin acclimating my fish to the new tank water, adding the water into their holding tank in littles over the course of about 45 minutes. I'm watching both thermometers to wait until the new tank reaches the temp that their holding tank is, and in the meantime finish my scape.

As stated, it's near, 2AM at this point, so my main goal is to just get everything in the tank so I have the right displacement levels, so it's not perfect, but here's what I come up with. Again, sorry for the quality:

This is what my little light that was on the old tank



Then I put the lid with the light on. Here's the light if anyone knows anything about these bulbs



Here's a shot with the blue light


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## stalefish83

I did discover a little leak, fortunately not in the tank itself, but this guy is leaking... and I'm not too happy about it!



Somehow the leak is trailing down the power cord, and doesn't appear to be coming from the tubing... so that's a little wierd.

Just for fun, here's one last shot (for now) of the tank in it's final resting place. Again, I apologize for the crappy quality. I hope to get a better camera soon!


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## stalefish83

Thanks for reading! The scape does need some work, and I'm open to any feedback or suggestions you may have. I think the first thing I'm going to do is take out some of the rocks. I'd like to get rid of the ones that aren't quite as grey and try to create a little more separation of space.

I'll also put up a black background until I can come up with something better.

Also, a question for the sump users out there... I have a little HOP on this thing in case I need to quickly set up a quarantine tank, will that mess anything up with the sump?

My future plans are to add 5 rainbow cichlids (Herotilapia multispinosa) and 1 female nicaragua cichlid (Hypsophrys nicaraguensis)


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## Iggy Newcastle

Nice job!

I can't help with your sump question, unfortunately.

A background would be nice. Try some black felt or construction paper. The stuff that comes on a roll gives off a nasty glare. I would also add a white bulb in place if one of those actinic. Maybe add some smaller rocks at the base of the larger ones to give it a bit of depth and to look more natural.


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## stalefish83

Thanks Iggy! I've got a white bulb in there now, along with the blue you really only see the blue as an accent. My camera doesn't capture it accurately (it just grabs all the blue). The bulbs that are build into the lid are metal halide bulbs, and from what I've seen, they are expensive (upwards of $80.00 a bulb!) so for now I'll probably stick with the aquarium light that's in there now, maybe add a second one.

For a background I was just going to use a large black trash bag cut to size, for the time being. Def not a permanent solution but will hide the equipment. I imaging it will probably glare too, though, so I could be changing that sooner rather than later.

Good idea with putting smaller rocks at the base of the larger ones. I'll do that, for sure!


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## stalefish83

Oh wait... I get what you're saying about the blue bulbs. I really like the look of just the blue at night (they're both on one switch), but it's still a little bright. I might just take one of the blues out and only have one. That way I'll also have a replacement


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## mlancaster

Hi Jason,

Great job on the aquascaping; it looks sleek.

Thanks,
Matt


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## CjCichlid

Looking good! I wish I could help you with your sump as well but that's one area I am still trying to learn myself..

I think the scape looks pretty good as is. A black background would definitely look nice and help finish things off. I'd replace one of the actinic blue bulbs with a white 6500k bulb too, as it looks very "marine" as it is now.


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## stalefish83

mlancaster said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> Great job on the aquascaping; it looks sleek.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt


Thank you! I've gotten some good ideas for making it better, so I'll post some updated pics when that happens 8)



CjCichlid said:


> Looking good! I wish I could help you with your sump as well but that's one area I am still trying to learn myself..
> 
> I think the scape looks pretty good as is. A black background would definitely look nice and help finish things off. I'd replace one of the actinic blue bulbs with a white 6500k bulb too, as it looks very "marine" as it is now.


Sumps are , uhh... interesting. I'm just glad this is in my garage as I do imagine I will flood the thing one or two times before I really figure it out :?

Now that you mention the "marine" look, your exactly right! It's not quite so blue in person (my camera LOVES the blue for some reason) as long as the other light is on, but i think I will at least remove one of the blue bulbs.


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## Cichlid Debby

Looks good Jason. Very aesthetically pleasing.


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## stalefish83

Cichlid Debby said:


> Looks good Jason. Very aesthetically pleasing.


Thanks Deb! I think it's a little busy with all the rocks, but I kind of like it at the same time. I will take some of the rocks out, leaving only the grey rocks (I think that will look better) and re-arrange some of the smaller ones in front of the bigger ones to give it more depth, as suggested earlier by Iggy :thumb:

...Now if only I can get you to paint me a wave for the background :dancing:


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## Cichlid Debby

Nope sorry, to far to drive unless you spring for the gas! 

And removing a couple rocks might make it easier to clean in the long run.


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## stalefish83

Cichlid Debby said:


> Nope sorry, to far to drive unless you spring for the gas!
> 
> And removing a couple rocks might make it easier to clean in the long run.


Don't know if I can swing the gas... can barely swing it for myself. Oh well, it was worth a try :lol:

I've got a pump moving water through the rocks to keep debris from gathering around the rocks. From what I've read, if you've got water moving along the bottom, the sump will pick it up, thus negating gravel vacs! Sound too good to be true???? Maybe... but I'll be keeping an eye on the sand to see if it stays clean. Most people with sumps say that they primarly do water changes from the sump itself, and never from the tank. I may just luck-out there! But I'll be watching it


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## Iggy Newcastle

Having the poop gather in a couple spots is no big deal. Easy to remove and puts less load on your system.


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## CjCichlid

I literally never vac my sand.. never. I simply just do water changes. There are a few dead spots that collect debris over in the far right side of my tank. However, the fish are constantly picking through it and stirring it up during feeding time so it never gets out of control, as my canister filter intake is over there so it tends to suck it up.


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## Dovii 64

Nice tank when you getting the fish,


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## stalefish83

I've got a Firemouth and a Honduran red point in there from the upgraded 40g tank. Over the weekend I got two more fish! I had to remove the 5-banded bards from my goldfish tank as they started getting nippy, so I called around to see who would take them and only one place would even offer a credit if they looked OK.

I took them in and the guy loved them, but he's a haggler (he's actually pretty fun to haggle with) so he offered me 10% off anything I wanted. At this point I have already called everywhere fish store near me, and even called The Wet Spot in Portland, to see if they had the fish I was looking for: 1 female Nicaragua cichlid, and a few Rainbow cichlids.

Nobody local had either, and the Wet Spot had nics, but they were either too small to sex, or they only had males around 5" (they were $35). I really want a female since they stay smaller and get more color! So I ask where their CA cichlids are and start looking around. Then I see written on the glass of one tank "nicaragua cichlid $19.99" and they are each 3" to 5" and there are four of them! I give them a closer look and one of them has a pretty distinct blunted dorsal fin.

I'm trading the shop nine beautiful pentazona barbs, so I think it's more than fair to ask, for this roughly 4" hopefully female nic for $15.00. We go back and forth with him trying to sell me all four for $50.00, then two for $30.00, I'm saying "I only want one" him asking me what size tank their in, me telling him my set-up and plans, but saying again, I only want one, him saying, buy them all and you won't have to worry about it for 10 years, then me finally offering to give him $16.00 for the one nic. 20% seems more than fair for my barbs, and it was already a great deal for the nic even at $19.99! She's gray as a rock still, and quite shy, but I imagine she'll color up and come out of her corner once she's gotten used to her new home. She was pretty haggard when I got her (torn fins and all) so she's got some relaxing to do. Pics of her to come shortly, but they're not great since she's been hiding.

This was on Saturday.

Yesterday, I fell in love with what I HOPE isn't a green terror... more to come on that


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## stalefish83

Sorry it took me a while to make the update. I've been working at a different station this week and have had less availability. So where was I&#8230; Oh yea, Sunday:

I went to my LFS (Aqua Serene) to get a new outflow as the one I had was leaking, as mentioned above. I really liked the look and style of the one I had (it rotated back and forth, too!) but they didn't have anything like that. All they had was the most basic, connect-this-to-the-hose-and-the-water-will-come-out-of-it type of thing. It was only $8.50 though, so I wasn't going to complain&#8230; and better yet, it doesn't leak!

So I decide I'll look to see if they have any rainbow cichlids, after all, I called everywhere asking for a Nicaragua, and nobody said they had one, then I found one the day before at the first store I went to when I traded the barbs&#8230; why not check for rainbows again?

Well, no rainbows, but as I'm looking around the cichlid section, one cute little fish grabs my attention. As soon as she see's me (I assume it's a she, who knows at this point) she comes right up to the glass and starts doing the whole "puppy dog in the window" routine, and literally begs me to take her home! The tank next to her says "Blue Acara," but she's in this tank all by herself, save for some plecos (maybe she was mean? Maybe she's not really a BA? Who knows) &#8230;I've done enough research to know that it's at least either a Blue Acara, or a Green Terror. Nowhere do they advertise having a GT&#8230; but places have been known to mix those up.

She's beautiful though! And VERY personable&#8230; at this point my tank at home is very boring. All the fish do is hide. So it'll be great to have a fish that likes attention, plus she has some of the more common BA vs GT markins (vertical stripes, spot on her face, bright orange on only the dorsal and not the caudal fin) so I feel pretty confident she's a BA. Although I had decided against an Acara, I can't help myself. Rainbows have been impossible to find, and this fish looks amazing! I fall in love instantly.

I bring her home, acclimate her, and introduce her to the family. Immediately, there's activity. The others are very interested her&#8230; especially my HRP. I think the HRP is jealous of the Acara. The HRP used to be the one that would actual hang out with you when you were looking at the tank, now whenever I come to the tank and Buzzbee (the HRP, short for buzzing bee, we named her that because she would buzz around the firemouth, named sitting bull, and annoy the **** out of him until he would charge at her. She'd run away, then come right back and start buzzing around him again. Sitting bull charges with his head down, too, so the name suites them both, IMO ) when she she's the acara at the front, looking at me and hanging out, Buzzbee will come out and chase her away, then hang out in her spot right at the glass. She seems to be a bit of an attention hog.

But long story short, I've got activity in my tank now! I'm so happy with how it's turning out. Some new developments, too, sitting bull (the FM) He started showing off for the nic, going right next to her, displaying his fins, and brightening up like crazy. Not aggressive (no gill flaring), just showy. Could it be that he has a bit of a crush?


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## stalefish83

My phone is feverishly trying to upload a video from last night to youtube. When it figures it out I'll post it up. The video is a bit dark and not the greatest quality, also, there will be no background music (how's that for an upsell!) but it'll give you an idea of what I've got going on. I'll try to post some pics of my new fish too. My work has blocked photobucket so I'll see if I can get flickr to work


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## Iggy Newcastle

America. Hard at work :wink:


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## stalefish83

CAM01038 by stalefish83, on Flickr


Blue acara by stalefish83, on Flickr


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## stalefish83

Iggy Newcastle said:


> America. Hard at work :wink:


Hey! It's been a slow day :lol:

And I DO get breaks, y'know :wink:


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## Cichlid Debby

Looks like a blue acara to me, from way out here in Indiana.  
Good luck with her!


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## CjCichlid

Yup, definitely a Blue Acara.. unfortunately now I must move this thread to the South American forum. Hah, just kidding of course.  Nice pick up and good luck with.. him? The bold orange on the dorsal makes me think it's a male.


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## stalefish83

Phew good! Glad to hear some confirmation that it's an Acara. s/he is starting to develop a faint hue of orange on the caudel, though. If that starts to come in more will that mean anything??



CjCichlid said:


> Yup, definitely a Blue Acara.. unfortunately now I must move this thread to the South American forum. Hah, just kidding of course.


Well, 3 out of 4 ain't bad :wink:


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## stalefish83

I did a little bit of re-scaping. I removed a few larger rocks that weren't as grey as the others, and some of the smaller ones as well. I really wanted it look more uniform, while opening some of the space up a little bit (creating some separation of space). I also moved one piece of bogwood with anubias from my goldfish tank to this one (trading it for some of the rocks I removed) and put it in the back left corner. Here's a couple pics.


CAM00994 by stalefish83, on Flickr
Pay no attention to the pump just dangling there in the middle. It came with THE WORST suction cups I've ever seen. It fell immediately after putting it in place, like within seconds. Every time. I finally scoured through my box of random fish stuff and replaced them with much better suction cups and it hasn't budged since.

I certainly plan on getting better pics soon. Really I need a better phone, but I know I can do better than this with what I have


CAM00981 by stalefish83, on Flickr

Bluelight special with flash... That's probably all I have on my phone for now (that's worth sharing, anyway... there's a lot more on my phone, you just probably don't really want to see them :lol: )


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## Cichlid Debby

I think you're safe Jason. This is what my GT looked like a 3".
Head and body shape are very different. Alas, he decided he could fly and flew out of the tank when I was trying to net him for the move into the 75. 

And CJ, if your lookin, that is my pearsei the day after I got him.


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## stalefish83

Ok cool. I'm seeing a couple of differences. narrower head, convex caudel fin on the GT and concave on mine. Pretty dang similar otherwise, but hopefully these traits will hold true and I won't end up with a 10" fish that destroys everything  GT's are beautiful tho! Your's was amazing, my condolences on the loss, that would've been heartbreaking.

Mine is perhaps 1.5" now, so still pretty small, and like I said, there is a hint of orange on her caudel fin, that's the only thing that still makes me a little nervous, but I really appreciate the assurance. I think I'll be safe too


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## stalefish83

Here's a couple more pics I took last night. Got a black background put up but I'm not real happy with it. It's a black garbage bag and now looking at the tank is a bit like looking in the mirror, ugh. I'll need to change that out soon.

Here's the nic. She's been hard to capture but has been coming out a bit more. I'm looking forward to the hint of yellow that I'm seeing spread and get more vibrant! My camera is not good enough to capture the yellow (it's pretty faint) but hopefully she'll color up soon. I love the bright white on the tips of her fins and on her bottom lip

CAM01058 by stalefish83, on Flickr

And here's a shot from the side going lengthwise through the tank with the acara.

CAM01055 by stalefish83, on Flickr


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## stalefish83

Over the weekend I decided to re-arrange the rocks a little bit to try to create a couple of more caves (and make those case front-facing so I could actually see some of my fish) and make the spot under the bogwood a little more desirable for the Acara. She seemed to be drawn to that spot (under the left-most piece of larger bogwood in the right half of the tank) but it had a direct line-of-sight to where the HRP hangs out, and she's not a fan of the Acara so the HRP would never let her stay in that spot for long. I wanted to put a rock between the HRP and where the Acara wanted to be to see if that helped.

Here's the spot, right under the Acara and to the right of the HRP. You can see the HRP paroling the area

CAM01148 by stalefish83, on Flickr

Well, I think moving stuff around had awoken something in the Nicaragua&#8230; all of sudden she started go after the FM. Intensely. They used to hang out together, and I mentioned before that I thought the FM was trying to show off for her&#8230; but she's apparently having none of that! She's actually done some damage to the FM, they faced off and he came away with this just above his mouth:

CAM01139 by stalefish83, on Flickr

Here's a shot of the nic. She's just a little bigger than the FM, which makes her the biggest in the tank.

CAM01159 by stalefish83, on Flickr

Also this morning I saw the Acara nip at the FM as I turned on the lights. It's the first sign of any sort of aggression I've seen out of her since putting her in the tank. And it's interesting that she went for the FM, who used to rule the tank until the nic decided to take over. The acara is the smallest fish in there, and the FM just ran off. Hopefully they just need to settle in, I don't mind watching them bicker back and forth (they are cichlids, after all) I just know that if one gets a little too relentless, and singles out another fish, that "one" (I'm looking at you, nic) may have to go.

I took some full tank shots and some different angles that I'll post shortly.


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## stalefish83

CAM01170 by stalefish83, on Flickr
CAM01172 by stalefish83, on Flickr
CAM01168 by stalefish83, on Flickr
CAM01167 by stalefish83, on Flickr
CAM01166 by stalefish83, on Flickr
CAM01164 by stalefish83, on Flickr
CAM01145 by stalefish83, on Flickr


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## stalefish83

Thank you, Iggy for telling me how to re-size my pics!


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## Cichlid Debby

Looks like you're there. Good Job!


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## Iggy Newcastle

stalefish83 said:


> Thank you, Iggy for telling me how to re-size my pics!


 :thumb: I'll work on the other ones for you. Tanks looking good.


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## stalefish83

Iggy, you ROCK!!

And thanks Debby, I think all I have left is figuring out a better background (and keeping an eye on the nic to make sure she doesn't kill anybody)


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## stalefish83

So I think I'm going to get rid of the Nic. She is relentlessly going after the Firemouth, and it's not just "stay away from my home" it's "I hate you!"

The others will chase once to scoot someone who gets too close along on their merry way, then leave them alone. The nic doesn't let up, and it's directed at the FM, which is my favorite, and no one else. So the Nic has to go... Not looking forward to netting her out *sigh* ...I think I'll try to find some rainbow cichlids to replace her.


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## Iggy Newcastle

That's too bad but for the best.


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## stalefish83

I pulled the Nicaragua and have her temporarily in a smaller tank until somebody claims her. I'm sad to see her go, but there's been a noticeable difference in the behavior of my other fish, and I believe I made the right call.

Just for fun, here's a newer pic

CAM01184 by stalefish83, on Flickr

And a slight re-scape after taking out the nic (I had to remove most of what was in there to get her out)
CAM01196 by stalefish83, on Flickr


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## CichlidStoner420

dig the setup!


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## stalefish83

Thanks! It still needs some tweaking, but it's coming along


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## stalefish83

I found a home for the nic, so she is now gone. She was starting to get her color (a nice purple) while in her own holding tank, so it made it a little harder to let her go, but I still know I made the right choice as the behavior of the remaining fish has much improved!

Now, I'm wondering whether I really want the rainbows or not... I should re-phrase that, I want them, but I'm wondering if I NEED them. I like the idea of their tricuspid teeth to take care of some of the beard algae I'm getting, and I would love the extra color, but my current stock is settling in nicely, and I'd hate to disrupt that. *sigh* and thinking about how big (small) my 75 gallon is, and picturing all the fish that would be in there full grown, I imagine it being pretty cramped. Argh! I don't know what to do!


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## stalefish83

So I have what I'm pretty sure is blue green algae (cyanobacteria), and I'm not happy about it. It's bright green (and I mean BRIGHT green) and comes off in thin sheets. When I first noticed it formed on the glass it had bubbles in it, and it also forms on the rocks and bogwood. When it gets scraped off it sort of free floats in the water for a while before either settling on the substrate or getting blown around more by a pump.

I've dealt with cyano before, and I hate it! Hate. It.

It forms so fast and once it's taken hold I've not been able to get rid of it. First off, is there anything else it could be? If this sounds like cyano, is there anything other than overfeeding that could cause it to form? From previous experience I've learned that it needs un-eaten food to survive, so I've been extra careful not to over-feed, but it's nearly impossible to ensure that ALL the food gets eaten, so I've placed pumps and powerheads in three places around my tank to hopefully encourage debris to move around then float up and go through my sump.

I had two pumps going previously, then I added a third powerhead last night so there's one in each corner (the powerhead might actually be a UGF that I have just sitting on top of the substrate, it's a high-flow pump with a long filter intake looking thing that attaches to the top where it draws the water in), and one in the middle blowing down. I feel like I'm grasping at straws though because I've never had success getting rid of this junk. Could I need more aeration? Could the temp be too high (around 80 because it's in my not-very-well-insulated garage)? Anybody have success getting rid of cyano or have any tips or ideas I'd love to hear from you!


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## stalefish83

After researching how to get rid of it, seems like there's two options: Treat the tank with an anti-bacteria, but that could lead to a resistant strain and fish TB. No, thank you.

And "starve" the cyano by leaving the lights off for a few weeks. So yea, the lights are the issue! (I keep the lights on waaaay too much, 7:45am to midnight or 1am most days)

I'm wondering, though, does it need to be completely blacked out (like sheet-over-the-tank) or can I just leave the tank lights themselves off? It's in the garage so it'll get some light from the garage lights when we are hanging out in there, but no direct sunlight.


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## BC in SK

stalefish83 said:


> seems like there's two options


No, there is a 3rd option. A common pleco or a CAE (Chinese algae eater) will eliminate it. I've had a few bouts of cyano over the last few years. Either in a tank with no algae eater or a tank where a young pleco was too scared of my dovi x festae hybrid. Cyano can cover a cleaned up tank in under a week! I've even had cyano over run very old and established black brush algae. But it's just a matter of a few days for an algae eater to eliminate!
Can't vouch for a bristle nose pleco as mine have more then failed to control algae in my 15 and 29 gal. bear in mind that I am some one that actually likes algae in my tanks and find that common plecos clean glass tanks far too much to my liking!!

Many types of cyano are ''nitrogen fixing'. That is, they use atmospheric nitrogen. A big advantage over other plants/algae if you change a lot of water and have low nitrates. Of course not all cyano is 'bad'......spirulina is great food for fish.


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## stalefish83

Thanks for the reply, BC. I've never actually heard of anything eating cyano (except for the spirulina, as you mentioned, that I feed my goldies every now and again). I am not a pleco fan (too much waste and too boring) and from what I read on CAE's they get very large and can become aggressive and territorial, so I think I'll steer away from them.

I'm currently going with the black-out method. I decided not to cover the tank as the garage is pitch black at night and still really dark during the day. The only window is as far away from the tank as it can be, and never gets any direct sunlight. So far it seems to be going well.

I'm going to be changing about 10 gallons of water every couple days, being sure to remove any cyano that creeps up. So far there's been no new growth since I started the black-out Friday night.


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## stalefish83

Just a quick update (and re-scape), I'm coming to the end of the blackout and the cyano seems to be gone. The blackout lasted for a full week but I started getting a little worried about my live plant in there as the leaves started to brown a little bit. I was planning on leaving the lights off for another week but I decided to start turning them on for at least 5 or 6 hours a day to give the plants some light, and I'll probably keep that up for the rest of this week (turn the lights on when I get home from work at about 6pm, then turn them off again when I go to bed at around midnight).

I have also done a bit of a re-scape that I'd like you to check out. I found a new piece of wood yesterday while longboarding along the river on my lunch break. It was about 94 degrees so I decided to go sit along the river to cool off. Then I see it. A nice long piece of wood in the water near the bank of the river, and better yet, it's not floating. I fish it out and take it back with me. It doesn't smell the best, but it's a nice looking piece so I was happy to deal with the smell at my desk for the rest of the day. I brought it home, scrubbed it really good, making sure to get off anything that isn't wood, and ran 3 teapots full of boiling water over it, then put it in.

I wasn't really feeling the look of that large piece of bogwood that was in their (at the right of the tank) even though it makes a nice cave, it just doesn't look right. I put the new piece in, took out the big piece, then noticed that there was now a bit of a hole where the big piece used to be. The firemouth wouldn't leave the HRP alone, since the HRP liked to be under the farthest-right piece of wood, and the big piece made a nice sight-block, now the sight break was gone and the FM just kept harassing the HRP and kicking the HRP out of his home.

I decided to take another anubias plant from my goldfish tank and use that to fill the gap, and I'm happy with the result. It suits the purpose of breaking the line of sight and looks a lot more natural. It also seems to tie it all together. Let me know what you think.

75 gallon cichlid tank by stalefish83, on Flickr

75 gallon cichlid tank by stalefish83, on Flickr

75 gallon cichlid tank by stalefish83, on Flickr

75 gallon cichlid tank by stalefish83, on Flickr

75 gallon cichlid tank by stalefish83, on Flickr

75 gallon cichlid tank by stalefish83, on Flickr

75 gallon cichlid tank by stalefish83, on Flickr

75 gallon cichlid tank by stalefish83, on Flickr


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## Iggy Newcastle

Looks good man! More natural.


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## stalefish83

Thanks man! It's getting there. I'm not certain that I'm 100% happy with the overall look, but I think I at least have the components to make this a kick butt tank! And it's better than it was.

The new piece is my first ever "collected" piece of wood that has actually been fully waterlogged enough to sink on it's own without needing an anchor, so I'm pretty excited about that too!


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## mlancaster

Hi stalefish83,

Your tank looks awesome; it fits with my personal preferences. I do not know much about live plants, but could you attach some on the higher part of the drift wood going across the middle of tank to add some vertical interest, provide refuge and hide equipment?

Thanks,
Matt


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## stalefish83

Thanks mlancaster! I have not attached any plants myself, the two that are in here were attached to the bogwood they are on when I bought them, and the bogwood they are attached too is pretty porous and has lots of places for the roots intertwine and mingle in.

I have certainly heard of people using fishing wire to tie anubias to bogwood, then eventually the roots cling to the wood. It would look sweet to attach some plants to the long piece that I have... but I have since made some changes to the scape. So this is as good a time as any for a quick update...

First, I did end up buying a second HRP. A male who had beautiful red and yellow hues in his tale. I couldn't resist. So now I have two HRPs, one Blue Acara, and one Firemouth. (I'm still looking for Rainbow Cichlids... still no luck there, so if anybody knows a good online source that has some in stock, I'd be forever grateful!)

I had a gift card for my LFS, so Tuesday I swung by there to pick up an API Master Test Kit. It was a bit more than I wanted to spend at the moment, so I started looking around to see what else I could pick up with my gift card. I cruise by their bogwood section and find this awesome looking dense root, and it's only $25.00. My gift card is for $20.00, so only 5 of my dollars and I take it home with me.

I have to remove a couple other pieces wood to be able to use this one (it looked weird with everything in there) so while I do lose some of my vertical interest (sigh) what I gain is well worth it, in my opinion. Maybe I can figure out a way to gain that vertical interest back in other ways, but here's the piece that I was willing to make the sacrifice for:
Rescape by stalefish83, on Flickr

Of course, this isn't how it's really going to rest. so I play around with it quite a bit to try to find how I should ultimately place it. I try letting it float, hoping that it would look like roots coming down from the surface. I wish I could have made that work, but I couldn't quite make it look right with the way it was cut. I try it on it's side so that I could utilize it's length for the height I would be losing, but it looks way to unnatural. So for the time being I've decided on this:

Rescape by stalefish83, on Flickr

The water is pretty cloudy from moving stuff around so much, so I'll get some better pictures when everything settles.

In the meantime, here's one more I took this morning with a little clearer water:

CAM01693 by stalefish83, on Flickr

What do you think? Any other ideas on what I could do with this gnarly piece, or anything else? Thanks for looking!


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## CjCichlid

Looking good!

As for adding "vertical interest", I'd suggest adding some small twiggy branches at the surface. You could even use that new piece and suspend it at the surface and have the roots coming down into the water. Could be hit or miss on how it looks but may be worth playing with.

As for where to get Rainbow Cichlids.. have you checked aquabid.com?


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## stalefish83

Thanks Cj!

Maybe I can break a little chunk off the new piece and suspend one portion from the surface to cover the pump. Would it look bad having it coming from the top and bottom? Or would it just be better coming from the top?

I did try floating the whole thing from the top coming down, and i loved the idea of it, but i couldn't quite get it to look right, maybe if it's a smaller portion though... hmm


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## stalefish83

CjCichlid said:


> Looking good!
> As for where to get Rainbow Cichlids.. have you checked aquabid.com?


Thanks for the referral, I hadn't check them yet.... No dice though


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## stalefish83

The water has cleared up so I snapped a few more pics:

CAM01724 by stalefish83, on Flickr

CAM01719 by stalefish83, on Flickr

CAM01701 by stalefish83, on Flickr

As a side note... I dropped my phone face-down while taking my first set of pics (me, my wife and a friend drank a whole bottle of scotch that night) and shattered the face... so that means hopefully a new phone with a better camera in the near future!!


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## Iggy Newcastle

The root looks nice. Hopefully it adopts some growth which will give it a darker appearance.

That's a lot to drink! I see you're a 'bottle half full' kind of guy... I break a phone and I lose my cool.


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## stalefish83

I'm hoping the root darkens as well. I had to remove all the previous wood from that side of the tank because the contrast looked horrible. It's still a bit too contrasted for my liking at the moment, but some nice algae growth could take care of that.

I wish I still had half that bottle, that was some good Scotch!! But seriously though, my phone is a piece of junk so it's a good reason to get a new one, just have wait a month to catch back up from all the flowers we had to buy for my wife to do a friends memorial service and then a family member's wedding. The only bummer is that while I wait I can't play my cell phone games without the risk of getting cut


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## Bikeman48088

Iggy Newcastle said:


> The root looks nice. Hopefully it adopts some growth which will give it a darker appearance.
> 
> That's a lot to drink! I see you're a 'bottle half full' kind of guy... I break a phone and I lose my cool.


I look at a broken phone as "fortuitous obsolescence."


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## stalefish83

Bikeman48088 said:


> I look at a broken phone as "fortuitous obsolescence."


Fortuitous indeed! My phone looks way cooler with the crack :thumb:


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## stalefish83

Also:

Rob Zombie @ Cuthbert by stalefish83, on Flickr
Rob Zombie @ Cuthbert by stalefish83, on Flickr
ROB [email protected]*#&*$&*$ ZOMBIE!!


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## stalefish83

I'm thinking some floating plants would look good in my tank. Any suggestions on some floating plants that will hang down and bit while not getting chomped by fish?


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## Iggy Newcastle

Plastic ones.

Rob Zombie still around?


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## stalefish83

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Plastic ones.


Bummer. Not a fan of plastic plants :?



Iggy Newcastle said:


> Rob Zombie still around?


Not for too much longer, I'm sure. That's why I wanted to make sure to make this show! He's gotta be running out of steam, though you'd never know it from watching him on stage


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## Iggy Newcastle

I am not a plant guy. I do have a plastic one in my 125 though. Doesn't look too bad.

Ya never know about Rob.... Look at Mick Jagger...


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## CjCichlid

stalefish83 said:


> Not for too much longer, I'm sure. That's why I wanted to make sure to make this show! He's gotta be running out of steam, though you'd never know it from watching him on stage


A lot of alcohol and hard drugs will tend to do that.. :lol:


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## stalefish83

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Ya never know about Rob.... Look at Mick Jagger...


True enough!



CjCichlid said:


> stalefish83 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not for too much longer, I'm sure. That's why I wanted to make sure to make this show! He's gotta be running out of steam, though you'd never know it from watching him on stage
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of alcohol and hard drugs will tend to do that.. :lol:
Click to expand...

Indeed! As long as it keeps the dream alive 8)


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## stalefish83

^^^^That's a joke, of course.


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## stalefish83

What are some thoughts on red root floating plants? Are there any other suggestions besides plastic plants?


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## stalefish83

My two Hondurans appeared to have paired off. I noticed a couple days ago that the male (smallest in the tank) started acting aggressive toward the firemouth (largest, and previously the dominant fish). Then, after a little bit I saw the female Honduran come out, and join the male in chasing the FM all over the tank, side by side with the male.

The male HRP also started coloring up like crazy and now him and the female are pretty inseparable. They have made themselves what appears to be a nest under the tangle of roots. I have a couple of questions:

1)	Is a forced pairing destined the fail? Since I didn't introduce a number of females for the male to choose from, I'm wondering if these two will likely split from each other once "the breeding season" ends.

2)	This is probably going to be a really stupid question&#8230; but does the male show any kind of bulge before spawning?

2.1) If not, perhaps I have the genders confused?

Here's a couple of pictures that might help.

This is what I'm guessing is the male (due to his brighter color) but you can kind of see the bulge I'm talking about (I did feed them frozen daphnia in case it was just constipation)

CAM01796 by stalefish83, on Flickr
**Bonus points for you if you can find the other HRP in this pic

This one shows the bulge better
CAM01775 by stalefish83, on Flickr

CAM01761 by stalefish83, on Flickr

And here they are together
CAM01781 by stalefish83, on Flickr


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## JackDempsey72

At the bottom of the rock there's a Honduran head sticking out


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## stalefish83

JackDempsey72 said:


> At the bottom of the rock there's a Honduran head sticking out


 =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> Bonus points to you!! These points hold no value, monetary or otherwise. They are not redeeming anywhere.

...sorry I don't have anything real to give you :wink:


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## stalefish83

...that was supposed to be "not *redeemable anywhere" just missed the edit button!


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## stalefish83

While I'm at it, I got a pretty good shot of the Acara:

CAM01794 by stalefish83, on Flickr

And a slight re-scape of the right side (I can't seem to get this just the way I want it!) with the Firemouth hiding out:
CAM01814 by stalefish83, on Flickr

I'll try to get a decent full tank shot tonight, but you get the idea. I'd love any feedback on the scape. I'm still hoping to get some floating plants, to add keep the upper regions from looking so boring


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## stalefish83

Here's a full tank shot

CAM01837 by stalefish83, on Flickr

And a bonus shot of my firemouth

CAM01843 by stalefish83, on Flickr

My female Honduran has not left that spot in the rocks under the wood for a couple days. The male is defending this area but they are no longer trying to run the whole tank since the female is posted up. The clear separation in the middle gives a nice border so both the HRPs and the Firemouth know where they belong and rarely cross over (though they keep a very watchful eye on each other!). I'm hopeful I'll see some fry in the near future!


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## Iggy Newcastle

That root structure darkened up nicely in a short time. Glad to hear the chasing settled down.


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## stalefish83

I was glad to see it darken up so quickly myself! Since it happened so suddenly I'm a little worried that it's something that may fall apart in time, but I'll enjoy it while I can!

I think separating the two sides helped the aggression, it gave them all clear boundaries. The bare middle section is acting a bit like the border between N & S Korea, get too close and you might get fired upon by the other side!


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## stalefish83

I tried to get a picture of the female honduran guarding the eggs, and this is what I got. It's not a good picture at all, but I have a few questions:

CAM01862 by stalefish83, on Flickr

As you can see, there's really only a few larger white dots, these are in the midst of a mass of much smaller brown little bumps. She's been down there by them for about a week, and the male is guarding the general area, which is to be expected, but as I was watching her, I noticed her biting at the white eggs (I assume their eggs, anyway). She's not actually getting them, I don't think, but is this normal? They are both pretty young, so maybe she doesn't really know what she's doing yet...


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## stalefish83

She was moving the eggs. She has moved the eggs from the rock to a spot under another smaller rock (in the same general area) in the substrate. She basically dug a little pit and moved the eggs into that pit.


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## stalefish83

Are HRPs substrate spawners? I thought they spawned on a smooth rock, so it seems weird to me that she moved the eggs. Does anyone know if that's normal?


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## Iggy Newcastle

Substrate spawners will lay eggs on any surface- rock, pot, glass.

I've read about convicts moving the eggs.


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## stalefish83

Thanks Iggy. She's still protecting them, so assume all is still well. I've just always read that they clear a smooth surface and use that, which she did at first, then she goes and dumps them in a pit. Seemed like a downgrade to me, but mom knows best, I guess!


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## stalefish83

I have wrigglers! She moved them yet again into a little hole in some bogwood. I was looking for them under the rock when I noticed a pile a white squirmy dots right under my nose. This will be my first experience with fry, so I'm excited to see what happens!

My plan is to let most of them stay in this tank to see how they fare, my understanding is that they will be able to eat the algae that's in the tank, so as long as they don't get eaten they should be ok as far as food goes (let me know if I'm wrong).

I will also pull about 5 out once they are free swimming and put them in a 10 gallon tank and feed those ones powdered flake food and baby brine shrimp, to see how they do (I'll be sure to cover the filter intake to make sure they don't get sucked up). I know 10 gallons isn't that big, and I'm not sure how long that tank will work, but it's what I have available. Any thoughts or tips?


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## Iggy Newcastle

Awesome dude. The 10 gallon will be plenty for awhile. I'd suck out 10 or so, in case of any losses.


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## stalefish83

Right on, I will do that!


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## stalefish83

Quick fry update. Mom and dad are still doing a great job keeping track of the little swimmers. They keep them in a group and even put them to bed at night in a neat little pile. It's pretty fun to watch! They let direct them to where they can find food and grab a stray if he wanders too far and brings him back, then at night they corral them up put in their little put in the substrate.

Here's a couple pics

CAM01963 by stalefish83, on Flickr

CAM01966 by stalefish83, on Flickr

CAM01967 by stalefish83, on Flickr


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## Iggy Newcastle

Sweet shots Jason. Glad you're enjoying them and the fry...


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## stalefish83

Thanks! I'm looking forward to getting a better phone with a higher quality camera, but in the meantime I can't complain too hard. I'm getting ready to set up the 10 gallon to pull a few fry out. I'm curious to see if the parents react in any certain way when I pull about a quarter of their brood... is brood the right word? Any way, so far so good!


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## stalefish83

There's trouble in paradise! The male has ousted the female. He is now the sole guardian of the fry. He will simply scare away the Firemouth and the Acara, but he straight attacks the mom when he sees her, and last night I saw the female hanging out in top corner of the tank. That's a really bad sign!

If I get home from work today to find that he's killed her I will be SO PISSED!! Is this normal? If this is to be expected of them every time they spawn, I will be getting rid of the male. As nice looking as he is, he's got zero seniority, so he'll be the one getting the boot.

On a lighter note, I did get the 10 gallon set up for a few of the fry. I was able to catch nine and they are now chilling in here:

CAM01987 by stalefish83, on Flickr

CAM01989 by stalefish83, on Flickr


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## stalefish83

Quick update, successfully transitioned the cichlids to the tank inside. I set up my third cannister filter so now I have two aquarop cf 300s and a rena xp3 on this 70 gallon tank.

The female hrp finally decided to stand up for herself so as of now the hrps are doing fine, although they did lock lips pretty intensely right after the move, which I'm guessing was stress related... or them reestablishing territories.

And finally, the rainbow cichlids are at long last available and I've got 8 on the way and should get them by Thursday! My plan is to keep them long enough to sex them, then go 3f 2m and rehome the rest. Sorry for any typos. Posting on my crack-screened phone


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## Iggy Newcastle

Good to hear the transition went well and things have somewhat settled with the Crytos.

Are you adding the rainbows with everyone else?


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## stalefish83

I am going to try! I still think I may end up getting rid of the male Cryto, but we'll see how they handle themselves with the rainbows. I may be a little overstocked in the end (ultimately I'll have 1fm, 2 hrps, 1 blue acara, and 5 rainbows in a 48l x 18w) I have added some higher plants that reach the top of the water thinking that the rainbows will mostly hang out up there if they have cover, and I'm still looking for some floating plants as well.


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## stalefish83

They're not awesome pictures but here's a few of the new rainbows:

CAM02064 by stalefish83, on Flickr

CAM02061 by stalefish83, on Flickr

CAM02079 by stalefish83, on Flickr

I'm hoping they'll lose the vertical black bars, anybody know it that's a possibility? I know that they change color based on mood (like most cichlids), and the intensity of the bars certainly varies quite a bit depending on what's going on in the tank, but most (if not all) pictures I've seen of mature rainbows did not have those bars at all, only the one irregular horizontal bar.

These guys are super cool, though. It's been fun watching them develop their pecking order. There is already a dominant fish, and one specific "underling" who he has to keep reminding of his place. With that said, I know I have at least two males, and there's really only one other fish that I've seen get yellow, all the other stay nice and gray, so maybe I'm looking at 3 males and 5 females? I'm sure it's still really early to tell, They are all 1 1/2 to 2 inches. I have read that sexing rainbows is quite difficult, so I'm sure it's nearly impossible at their current size, other than just watching their behavior.


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## stalefish83

Also, they had pretty torn up fins when I got them. I don't want to add any medication to the tank so I'm just hoping good water quality and room to get away from aggressors will be enough to grow back their fins. Any thoughts on how long that might take? Some of them are pretty haggard


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## Iggy Newcastle

Tough to say when they'll completely heal up, but good water quality like you said will help. It's possible that some of the damage is permanent, but I don't see anything too severe from your photos. I'd give it time and growth, but they are a timid species and may not show their best in the setup. Do you still have the Meeki?


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## stalefish83

Thanks for the reply, Iggy. I do still have the Meeki. He hasn't been too bothered by them (so far) and isn't a relentless chaser. The male HRP on the other hand has now earned himself the name dirt nasty. He's just mean. I plan on re-homing dirt nasty (despite his beautiful coloring) for the benefit of the other fish.


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## Iggy Newcastle

That's too bad about your male. You could try a timeout, but that may just prolong the inevitable. ...


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## stalefish83

His aggression is mostly directed at the female HRP, but she has decided to stand up for herself which is why he hasn't been taken out already. I'm done dealing with his aggression though and don't want to risk him killing her should they spawn again like what nearly happened last time.

I did re-scape the tank and added some considerable height to the anubias in hopes that the rainbows would have a place to comfortable get out of some crosshairs. If I remove the male HRP do you think I could potentially keep all 8 rainbows, or would bringing it down to 5 still be best for bioload? I do want to see the best in them so I'm thinking more numbers will help them feel comfortable, and I feel like theirs plenty of hiding places. Here's the current set-up, and I could always add more rocks (thinking the blank space in the middle could use some).

CAM02025 by stalefish83, on Flickr

Right now the acara is the only one who hangs out in the right section of the tank, where everyone else is trying to co-habitate in the in the tangle of roots and anubias to the left. I think it's pretty funny that the most unassuming and peaceful fish has a nice little spot all to itself.


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## illy-d

Did you add the sand before adding the rocks? If so, just keep in mind that cichlids like to dig - so there could be some disturbance of the sand which may lead to the rocks collapsing. I don't think it would damage the tank or anything - I just thought you should know.

I like the look of it!

EDIT: I didn't realize there was more than 1 page when I posted... Sorry if I am repeating something someone else may have said... I'm going to go back and read everything after the first page now!


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## stalefish83

I did put the sand in first, but I'm always sure that the bottom rocks are pushed all the way to the bottom. I did end up putting some more rocks in the middle, but other than these few, none of the others are stacked. Thanks for checking out my thread! It's not a great picture, but here's the tank as it is now with those extra rocks:

CAM02108 by stalefish83, on Flickr

As you can see, ALL of the fish are hiding 

EDIT: Oh yea, and I did get some floating plants, frogsbit (I think that's what it's called). I'll post some other pictures once I get a new phone with a better camera and the floating plants have propagated a bit more


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