# Rams



## daffodils (Mar 10, 2008)

How many Rams could I have in a 20 gallon High tank?

I am planning on a planted tank with Rams and other fish. Any suggestions on plants and other fish?


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Hi, what type of Rams were you thinking?

Bolivian, or Blue?


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## daffodils (Mar 10, 2008)

not sure. Probably Bolivian Rams


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

:thumb:

In a 20 gallon tank I'd start off with a group of 5 juveniles and I'd want to end up with 1m/1f. Another couple of questions for you - what are the parameters of your tap water? Do you have any/much experience with fishkeeping, how about Cichlids?

I think you'll really enjoy keeping Bolivian Rams, if you haven't already you may find it useful to read the two articles on this site:
http://brc.moonfruit.com/#/articles/4528900931

Do you have any idea's for which dither fish you would like to include in this tank?


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## daffodils (Mar 10, 2008)

I have some experience keeping fish. I had a breeding pair of daffodils (african cichlid) for about a year. I have decided that I like the planted tank look better than a rift lake look...that's why I am thinking of switching to the rams.

My tap water is GH of 13 and pH is about 7.5. I was thinking I would have to which to using RO water when I switch to the Rams, but I found a site this morning that made me think my tap water might be alright for Rams. Thoughts?

Right now I have 4 neon tetra's in with my daffodils. I think they look pretty cool when they are schooling so I would like to add to these, so there is are about 8-10 total.

What would you suggest for a substrate? right now I have argonite sand. I was planning on switching this out, but not sure what to switch to. Like I said before I want to plant this tank, so what would be the best substrate mixture for planting?

Thanks!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I keep and breed Bolivian rams in a ph of 7.8.

I prefer silica sand, medium grain. But, if you want to go with a planted tank, someone else will have to advise you on your best substrate...I kill plants.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Ok cool - by daffodils I assume you mean _Neolamprologus brichardi_? If you've 
successfully kept them with _their_ aggression, you're going to have no problems with 
Bolivian Rams.

The GH is a little high but not really too much of a problem. Your pH is absolutely fine, no 
problems there! What about the KH? Really a KH of 2-4 is preferable, but 5 is acceptable and 
will still allow their fry to develop. The reason Bolivians are one of my favourite fish to 
recommend to those new to SA's is because they are very tolerant of a wide range of 
conditions, and quite forgiving of mistakes by the keeper.

If you like neons they work and that's fine, I'd have a group of 8-10 so you're set! Neons are 
good because they aren't too predatory so when the Rams breed you won't have any problems 
there.

If you don't want to deal with fry, you could add a trio of _Corydoras arcuatus_ (or one you 
prefer) as they are really efficient fry hunters.

As you want a planted tank you will want to look into some form of algae patrol, there are a 
few choices on this front but I think one of the better recommendations are _Otocinclus_, a 
group of 5 perhaps. You may find that you need to supplement their diet with algae tablets if 
they munch their way through it all too efficiently (highly likely).

Here's my 55 planted, I give plant lists, we talk about lighting schedules, lighting amounts etc:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... c&&start=0

I actually find it much easier to grow plants in sand and their root systems are expansive as any
I've grown in specialist substrate (even root feeders) - all I do is stir in fertilization tablets which
have been crushed up/alternately I use Red Seas Substrate Enricher (good stuff) and basically
just mix that all the way through your sand. I haven't been using any ferts (water column or
substrate) on the tank above for a while now.

Argonite is a no-no - it will buffer your KH and raise it too high, obviously this will also push the
pH up, great for the rift lakes, but not so for our softwater riverine SA's. As Kim has mentioned,
silica sand is a good choice as it is pretty much inert in regards to it's effect on the water 
:thumb:.

Another reason for keeping nice fine silica sand (not too fine or it will be forever dusty and 
aggravating to the fishes gills, not to mention sticking to their slime coat) is that Bolivian Rams 
are sand sifters - their name, _Mikrogeophagus_ if literally translated means, small earth 
eater - just like _Geophagus_. A fine sand substrate allows the fish to naturally graze for 
food, Bolivians like to take their time eating and don't necessarily rush the food like you might 
be used to, instead they wait for the food to fall and casually drift around pecking at the 
substrate, sifting sand and munching pellets.... :thumb:

Here's my favourite plant list for an easy planted tank:

Most plants I split into the smaller groups, or separate individuals and plant them this way, gives
them better space and chance at rooting well.

*Floating plants:*
_Japanese Riccia
Salvinia Ariculata_

*Back/Sides:*
_Hygrophila rosae Australis
Hygrophylia Polysperma
Cyperus helferi
Echinodorus africanus
Ludwigian Natans
Hydrilla Verticiliata
Mayaca fluviatilis
Camboba Caroliana
Ludwigia Mullertii
_
*Mid:*
_Cryptocoryne wendtii Green
Eleocharis vivipara
Vallisneria spiralis
Aponogeton Crispus
Rotala Macrandra
Rotala Indica_

*Mid-to-front.*
_Echinodorus rubra
Anubias barteri Nana
Anubias heterophylla
Bacopa Monnerii
Ludwigia Natans
Echinodorus Latifolius_
*
Foreground:*
_Lilaeopsis novae - zelandiae
Ludwigia arcuata Requires pruning to create carpet effect.
Eleocharis Parvulus (Dwarf Hairgrass)
Sagittaria Natans 
_

This thread is of another 55 aquascape of mine, in it ferts, lighting, water change regime etc are
discussed. Some really good info from other members:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... t+spectrum

Re light spectrum - JBL Solar and Natur are both fantastic bulbs and are the closest full 
spectrum bulbs around (for reasonable money) that I know of, if you can't get them then keep
reading:

Chlorophyll uses mostly blue and red light, sunlight peaks in the blue spectrum and blue light is
used by plants and algae. Aquatic plants are most sensitive to red light (not too far up or you
get infrared). So your best bet is a bulb that is predominantly orange/red with some blue 
spectrum in there, it definitely wants to peak in the red part of the spectrum but blue light is 
useful for vegetative growth.










Aquatic plants are most sensitive to the spectrum ranging between 650 and 680 nm - as you can
see from the spectrum above that is about perfect.

That shows you the spectrum I base my lights on. That's a Hagen Aquaglo bulb, I run that 
alongside a Floragro which has more blue light....

Assuming you do not have a nutrient rich substrate then I can recommend Red Sea's Substrate
Enricher. You are supposed to put it in before water but it does not matter. What I would do is 
put a small amount of this around the base of each plant and mix it well into the sand. It made 
the world of difference in my tanks and is so easy to do. I've added it pre and post filling and 
never had an issue, it's basically just flourite/laterite sort of stuff loaded with iron and nutrients

Flourish is good stuff and it used to be my choice before I started using Red Sea products. I 
generally find more algae occurrence with Flourish, whereas with Red Sea's Flora24 (daily dose 
for trace minerals etc) and Red Sea's Flora Gro (used each WC) I get awesome growth, healthy
plants and no real algae build up.

Flora24 and Flora Gro

So if you made it this far that covers light, substrate, plants, stocking and fertilization. Hopefully
that covers it. If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask!

Blair.


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## daffodils (Mar 10, 2008)

Thanks for all the info!


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## Philg (May 14, 2007)

Blairo1 Great info


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## Hubbynz (May 10, 2008)

Blairo is the man


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

You're all too nice!


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## Philg (May 14, 2007)

blairo1, beautiful tank and fish. do you recommend using CO2 for plant growth? Alos, I live in San diego where the tap water pH is 7.8 and gH 13. Can SA cichlids thrive under these conditions?
Thanks
Phil


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Hi Phil,

Thanks for your kind words. Regarding CO2, I don't use it. It's not for any particular reason 
other than I've found it unnecessary with the low levels of light over my tanks. There were 
marginal increases in growth rate but nothing stunning, probably the biggest benefit of it in a 
balanced low-light system is it's ability to suppress algae - by ensuring your other plants are 
strong and dominant growers. It did help cryptocoryne to grow, but even without it I have 
carpet effect plants growing quite happily in "1wpg" (read, bugger all light).

In a situation where you're providing quite a bit more light, it becomes increasingly important 
to provide CO2 replenishment - your plants grow at a much faster rate and therefore utilise the 
CO2 at a greater rate, without supplemented CO2 in these instances the plants will suffer as 
they are effectively "strangled", slowing their growth rate to a crawl and allowing algae to 
dominate - especially considering the light intensity over such set-ups.

In a well stocked low light tank I've found that the amount of by-product CO2 released 
naturally, is plentiful, I can see how this works because if I then reduce the stocking of the 
tank/OR if I create masses of surface agitation, algae starts to grow.

So in low light tanks, it's all about balance and you probably won't need it, it wouldn't hurt, but 
it's not essential. Regarding high tech set-ups with loads of light and CO2, I can't 
really talk specifics because I'm into my low-tech and having not really experimented (yet) with 
high-tech I don't feel I have the knowledge to best advise you.

My good friend Dutch Dude runs a .6wpg 55 with injected CO2 and I'm sure he can comment 
on the higher tech use too. Hopefully he'll see this and drop in, otherwise I'll grab his attention.

:thumb:


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## Philg (May 14, 2007)

blairo1 Thanks for your detailed advice. Along similar lines, I asked a question on another thread re Eco Complete substrate,as I was wondering if this substrate would unwantedly tend to raise water ph and hardness.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

I've not used it, but if I were going to use a specialist substrate like that, I'd use Eco-complete 
over seachems flourite. From what I've heard it isn't quite as dusty/messy and to me that's one of 
the main reasons I stopped using the stuff - if your fish dig or swim hard and disturb the substrate 
it doesn't matter how hard you rinsed it the stuff still clouds the tank up for a little while.

This is why I just use sand and mix in slow release ferts around the root masses.

Eco-complete should, if I remember correctly, buffer the water to be slightly more acidic - I know
Seachems stuff is supposed to "set" the pH at around 6.5 but I always found it to be closer to 6. I 
do have a ridiculously low KH though so this does have some adverse effect on its buffering ability.

You will find that a substrate like that will probably push the GH up a little, but that's because it's 
supposed to be mineral rich for your plants - I wouldn't worry bro, it's made for planted tank use 
with the intention of creating the ideal substrate based nutrient supply for them...


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## Fishboy2 (Jan 4, 2008)

hi, what would be the best number of bolivians for a 25 gallon tank with assorted platies in??
thanks..


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