# Sex of firemouth plz help



## FireHorn123 (Apr 16, 2017)

Hi can you tell me how to sex a firemouth I'm looking for a neat pair and Im in the process of growing out just wanted to know how thanks


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

How many are you growing out and what size are they? Best way to get a pair of any cichlid is to get 6 to 8 and grow them out together. Then you don't need to know how to sex them, they take care of things for you.

Firemouths are not very easy to sex, especially at a young age. Once they are large enough most will point to fin length and color as the main indicators. Males normally have a little longer, pointier fins and often have more blue spotted coloration, especially on the gill plate, plus will normally have a more obvious red. Females are generally smaller than males with shorter more rounded fins and less color overall. These characteristics don't become as obvious until they get closer to adulthood.

Hope that helps, if you want more input on your particular fish post some pics, it would help us to help you. Good luck.


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## BabyBull21 (May 3, 2017)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gender.php

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/foru ... ds.531353/
Here are a couple small articles. It will help much more than the above comment.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

BabyBull21 said:


> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gender.php
> 
> https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/foru ... ds.531353/
> Here are a couple small articles. It will help much more than the above comment.


Neither of those links is of any help at all for sexing Firemouths. I'd say the previous post was much more useful, and IME, more accurate for the species in question.


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

Hate to toot my own horn, but have to agree with Mr. Chromedome. Thanks for the vote of confidence.


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## BabyBull21 (May 3, 2017)

Females will be less colorful, and more "squatty" (shorter and more plump). I'm sure there is plenty of info out there, but so many people have their own opinions.Those articles tell you how to sex cichlids (both color and the anal port) and last I checked Thorichthys meeki is a cichlid. I've been in the hobby for 10 years now, do research and take "advice" with a grain of salt.


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

Nothing wrong with the links posted, just know it can be difficult to sex by observing the vent of cichlids if you are inexperienced in doing so. If the fish in question are young and being grown out it will be difficult to sex them either way.

Best thing that can be done is try and get some good pics and post them on here and we can tell you what we think.

But really as I said above, the best way to get a pair of any cichlid is to start them young in a group of 6 or more and let them grow out together. They will sort it all out for you. Plus some say you can end up with a stronger bond between the pair this way, as they choose each other. Again, good luck.


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## BabyBull21 (May 3, 2017)

Cage is right about groups. That can be applied to some of the more aggressive species like the festae too.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

I'd have to agree that FM are not generally easy to sex, especially at young age. People that really know a particular species might recognize differences, though they are probably not easy to describe. Sometimes it is obvious with older fish with the body shape and look, as long as fish of similar age are being compared. But with a lot of cichlids, old females can appear very masculine even when compared to younger males.
Got to give my .02 cents on the so called "venting" method. Read a lot on fish forums, and have been on them for the last 10 years now. It's certainly not full proof, that's for sure. Thread after thread after thread of people getting the sex of there fish wrong by 'venting" (it's being confirmed that they got the sex of their fish wrong after their confirmed male fish is holding! :lol: ). When people post pictures online for others to vent, most often you get 1/2 the people saying it is female and the other 1/2 saying it is male :lol: 
From my perspective, looking at the under belly is a poor angle to observe fish genitals. On top of that it is a one time thing. The female organ in particular, is very much in flux. The assumption that the area is going to stay the same size over time, is very questionable IMO.
With the exception of mbuna, which often don't have any or much breeding tube protruding, I've been sexing all cichlids observing their organs in the water for over 25 years now. It's 100%. But it is not for the impatient. You may know from one observation what the sex of the fish is......but to be 100% certain you need to keep observing it regularly over the course of weeks or even many months. Unless of coarse, it's fish that are very close to the spawning act, then it is clear and obvious and would not need further observation. Also, the larger the fish, the easier it is to see it.
What really makes me suspicious of "venting" is my observation of mbuna over the last number of years. I've been shown on line that sometimes female mbuna do have protruding egg tubes....though in the majority of instances they do not. It is my belief that it relates to the number of eggs, but that's just my theory and really a separate matter. I know other mouth brooders such as female "Victorians" and "tilapines" do have large protruding egg tubes. Anyways, as an example, I have observed the spawning act of demasoni over 20 times in last 2+ years. The act is always on the side of the tank, and I put my face right up to the glass to see it in more detail. I see the egg come out of the female, and although their is no tube protruding, the area the egg comes out is wide and huge for such a small fish. I have no doubt if you were to vent the fish at that time, you would no doubt identify it as a female based on the size of the area. The next day, the area has shrunk and can no longer be seen, at least in water. IMO, quite conceivable that there could be periods of time when the area is very similar in size to that of a male. The venting method doesn't take into account that the size of the area is highly variable depending on what stage the fish happens to be in. Because it's a one time thing rather then a daily observation, I think there is a good chance of getting it wrong.


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## jacky0 (Jul 7, 2017)

Your question helped me. :fish:


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