# Hi, was hoping someone could help me ID this cichlid?



## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

At first I thought it was a jewel cichlid, but I don't think so (unless it is a very bland one.

I love the little guy...it's a plain grey cichlid with three spots running down its' side. I'm not a great
photographer, but hopefully the 3 images below can help.

Thanks!


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

It's a hap - likely a copadichromis or otopharynx


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

Huh, thanks...I knew it was an mbuna of some sort...probably too early to tell specific species? (I know he's a juvenile...)


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## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

It isn't a mbuna, it is a Malawian Haplochromine though.


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

Ohhhh, OK...I thought the terms were synonymous. From wikipedia, it seems there are four major classifications of haps:

* Riverine species and those endemic to the northern Great Lakes such as Lake Kivu and Lake Victoria
* Mbuna, endemic to Lake Malawi
* Utaka and other non-mbuna species endemic to Lake Malawi
* Species endemic to Lake Tanganyika

Any way of knowing whether it is riverine or "Utaka"?

Thanks for the help guys.

**EDIT I guess Utaka of some sort is most likely. Sorry for the newb questions, but it seems even the scientists haven't totally figured this out!


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

The fish is an endemic Lake Malawi Haplochromine cichlid, commonly called part of the catch all "Hap" group. Actually Mbuna and "Peacocks" are from Lake Malwi also, and are also Haplochromines, but they seperate thsoe fish from the "Malawi Hap" group.

The fish is probably an Utaka "Hap", Copidichromis species, which is one group of a Malawi cichlids, usually schooling fish in the water column. The most commonly found is Copidichromis azureus which would be my first guess, but could be another species or a hybrid mix of species. Or Kanorin also says it could be an Otopharynx lithobates, if the fish has more of a longer head and body look. The pics are not good enough to tell for sure.

This fish will only show color (lots of blue probably) with a dominant or mature male. Females do have not extra color from what you see now.


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

OK...let me see if I can get a better picture of it. I appreciate you guys for your help.


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

Best pic I could get...I think my camera phone sucks, or I dont know how to use it.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

use macro mode. dont try to focus on the fish, focus on the gravel right under it. wait for the fish to sit still. get a straight profile shot. no weird angles.


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

Huh...I'm just using my camera phone, it doesn't have a "macro" mode. I don't really wanna turn this thread into a photography lesson, it'd be lost on me anyway. 

Anyway, I think the pics I posted are about as good as it gets, I guess it's an open water Hap from malawi. If anyone has any other advice, let me know. Thanks guys!


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

What Other Fish Do You Have In The Tank With This One, And What Size Is The Tank? Although We Don't Know Exactly Which Species It Is, We Can Provide Some General Advice On Care Requirements Based On The Fact That It's A "Hap" From Lake Malawi. It Would Be Good To Have Some Other Details About Your Tank To Be Sure It'll Do Well.


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

Thanks nmcichlid-aholic! It is a 29 gallon tank...4 mbuna (a yellow lab, an orange zebra, a blue zebra, and an acei), a VERY young kribensis, an upside down catfish, and a little platy who seems to have survived through the tank cycle and seems to get along well with the cichlids.  Along with the Malawi Hap, that makes 8 fish! None are very large yet (the Acei is the largest, I call him the "big boy"). I'm actually not new to African cichlids, but it's my first tank in a few years, so I'm kind of getting back into the swing of things.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

you're going to need a larger tank soon...


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

Well that would be nice, wouldn't it  Don't have space for a bigger tank, so I'll just have to manage! The general rule is 1" of fish per gallon, right? So I'll be OK as far as 4" per fish or so...I don't expect the kribensis to get that large, or the platy. I think I have some wiggle room.


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## OllieNZ (Apr 18, 2014)

That's a pretty outmoded rule. Most of those fish require a 4ft tank minimum due to territorial needs and stocking densities needed to disperse aggression.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

I have to agree with the others. The zebras especially will be too aggressive to keep in a tank that size once they mature and start competing for territory/mates. The yellow lab and acei are probably mellow enough to coexist in a smaller tank, but the acei just gets too large for small tanks (maturing around 6", they shouldn't be kept in anything much smaller than a 75 gallon tank). The only fish that you currently have that might do alright in the 29 gallon are the yellow lab and your new "hap", the krib (although it's not a common mix), and the pleco.

I would really suggest that if you truly cannot upgrade to a larger tank, and you want to have a tank that is sustainable and the fish are happy in, you may want to start a new thread in the Lake Malawi or Tanganyika forums asking for stocking ideas for a 29 gallon tank. You can do some really cool stuff in smaller tanks with dwarf mbuna species or smaller Tanganyikans, but it just takes a little research and planning.


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

Well, as far as the stocking density and dispersal of aggression, the size of the tank and the size of the fish at this point works in my favor. In the 29G with 6 cichlids, the tank is crowded enough to keep everyone playing together quite nicely. The acei chased the blue zebra around at first (similar color patterns, I suppose), but it's quieted down a lot in the last few days.

I will disrespectfully disagree that this "setup will not end well", but we shall see  Once they get a lot older, I may have to adopt some of them away. I'm prepared to do that.

Note: nmcichlid-aholic, I never said I had a pleco, I have a much smaller upside-down catfish.


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## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

It won't end well, a 29 gallon is simply not big enough, certainly not the least being that the tank isn't long enough for fish to get away from the "chase" and the chase distance being longer than the tank is.


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

Eh...this isn't my first rodeo, I've had many tanks over the years. Most of them were either New World or Old World cichlids...so I'm not exactly a newbie. Listen, I understand that fish hobbyists are always about "Get a bigger tank!", and I wish that was possible, but it's not in my situation. I appreciate the advice, and I'll take it under advisement, but there's no reason to get nasty.

The tank is fine as it is now...I doubt you have the psychic powers to tell me it's a lost cause.


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

Oh by the way, can you address the original reason for this post, identifying the cichlid I took pictures of? If you don't know it's OK, I'm not sure what it is either. I realize the pictures aren't great, but I think they're clear enough to make an identification. Of course, I'm sure it's more satisfying to criticize my entire setup. Thanks


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

In general, those commenting with advice for changing setups, stocklist, etc. are doing so because they have the fishes' best interest in mind. Please don't take it personally. It's kind of like if someone asks you if you like their shirt, but their hair is on fire - you'd want to tell them about their hair.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Given The Quality Of The Photos You've Posted, I Think You've Gotten The Best ID possible - It's A Malawi Hap, Most Likely From The Copadichromis Or Otopharynx Genus. Even With Very Clear Photos It's Hard To Identify These Guys When Young - You usually Have To Hope You Have A male And Wait Until It Starts To Color Up Before You'll Be Able To Get A Positive Identification. Was The Fish Identified At All When You Bought It, Even If Just By A Common Name?

As For The Criticism Of Your Setup, I Haven't Seen Any Comments That Are nasty - Just Honest Advice From Experienced hobbyists That Would like To See You and Your Fish Benefit From Proper Husbandry.


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

I hear ya, and I agree my tank is probably overpopulated with fish that will grow larger and more aggressive. But I'm actually an experienced hobbyist too, and I've seen fish get along when they are raised together. We shall see! I didn't mean "nasty" as far as, name calling or being abusive, I appreciate the advice. I just react a little badly at the "YOUR TANK IS DOOMED!" comments.

Unfortunately the fish store i bought the Hap at didn't have a description beyond "Assorted African Cichlids". I do appreciate the advice, I think you're right about Otopharynx...I found a picture on the internet that is a MUCH better one that I can take, and my fish looks exactly like it.









I'll let you know how it goes! No bad feelings


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

That fish (Lithobates) seems different from your fish... the mouth/ face is different. There are literally dozens of Malawi cichlids that have light silvery grey juveniles/females with 3 spots like that. Plus hybrids are also common, so you see how ID is very difficult.

Since it came from "assorted", a hybrid may be quite possible.


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

Huh...OK, looks identical to me. Maybe the poor quality of my photos are to blame. But surely the family is the same (Otopharynx). Thanks for your input.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

well, compare to these fish also, see which is more similar


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## mercster420 (May 26, 2014)

I see what you're saying, they both look very similar. I think the first video has the Haps that look more like mine. But that can be chalked up to maturity; I'm not sure.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

I think you'll have to wait until the fish gets a bit more color (maybe 1-3 months or so?) before you can make an accurate ID.


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