# Bugs in tank!?!?!?



## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

For the past two weeks when I do my water change I noticed gnats coming out off the top of the water. Last week I did a full cleaning and got them all. Now today I took off the covers and more gnats(at least they look like gnats, small flying bugs). Please help me take care of this problem.

I have a 55gal mixed African Cichlid tank, with a fluval 304 and 4 UGJ's with a RIO 2100.

Thank in advance
Gregg


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## Dj823cichild (Mar 30, 2009)

Are you closing the lid on your tanks or leaving them open?


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

i leave them closed


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## scdeb424 (Apr 24, 2008)

They are mostly likely fungus flies or gnats. They are often seen on the soil of houseplants
that have very damp or overwatered soil. They are harmless but who wants bugs in the
house. They are attacted to the water & debris from fish food & waste. If you have a HOB
filter they might be getting inside it through the top vents or if not perhaps getting under the 
glass top to dine on whatever they can find.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Is there something I can add to the water to kill them?


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Are you talking about the little green things? or are they white or black?

IMO the more stuff that lives in there but is harmless the better. I once had some kind of weird little water bug, thousands of them. 1mm long looked like gammarus shrimp. Cleanest bottom I've ever had. Fish were very healthy. Corys often ate them.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

tooch420 said:


> Is there something I can add to the water to kill them?


I think that might be a little risky, plus they will just come back. You might try putting a little fan so that it blows on the top of the tank. That way, they may not be able to come down and lay eggs.
I dunno, I don't mind most insects in my house.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

I would mind if there werent so many when I opened the cover to feed the fish...then the wall behind the tank is covered with these guys.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

wow! :? My only guess would be to wipe the inside surfaces of the tank on a daily basis? I think they could be laying eggs on the damp glass, do you think? I wonder if you left the top more open so that the inside surfaces would be completely dry?


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## Robtheheretic (Nov 14, 2009)

i would take every thing you have on the top of the tank take it appart whipe it down with rubbing achol and then try the fan thing


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

scrubjay said:


> wow! :? My only guess would be to wipe the inside surfaces of the tank on a daily basis? I think they could be laying eggs on the damp glass, do you think? I wonder if you left the top more open so that the inside surfaces would be completely dry?


I've done work with aquatic insects for a few years now. This is unfortunately a long running problem for tooch. Given his previous description of the flies I'm reasonably sure he has a pretty good sized breeding population of chironomid midges in his deep substrate. You might be able to treat them with a copper based medication, I'll go look through my reference books.


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## Hawks (Feb 7, 2008)

If the bugs are right at the rim of the water and the inside cover of the lids they could be Springtails. Springtails jump when/if they land on the water in order to get back on the glass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springtail.

There are prior posts on Springtails, from a while back you can do a search for.


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## AaronAllan (Jan 8, 2010)

how much water agitation do you have going on, id expect if you had a decent amount then the bugs would just get swept into the tank and die.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

Darkside said:


> I've done work with aquatic insects for a few years now. This is unfortunately a long running problem for tooch. Given his previous description of the flies I'm reasonably sure he has a pretty good sized breeding population of chironomid midges in his deep substrate. You might be able to treat them with a copper based medication, I'll go look through my reference books.


I'm very familiar with those--but how do they emerge without being eaten by the fish?


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

scrubjay said:


> Darkside said:
> 
> 
> > I've done work with aquatic insects for a few years now. This is unfortunately a long running problem for tooch. Given his previous description of the flies I'm reasonably sure he has a pretty good sized breeding population of chironomid midges in his deep substrate. You might be able to treat them with a copper based medication, I'll go look through my reference books.
> ...


Possibly because they're mbuna or the larva are so small. I get them in my setups from time to time and my larger fish also ignore them. I guess you're also familiar with the nightmares of IDing those midges. :lol:


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

oh yes, I have done my time with aquatic macroinvertebrates, but I've never had to identify these as anything but chironomids, thankfully.

I wonder if there is any type of bottom feeder capable of digging around in the interstitial spaces and scraping these off the rocks. To eat the emergers, need a school of small, surface-dwelling fish that can live in hard water and not get eaten by mbuna.

It seems odd that they are so successful in this tank, and yet you don't hear this complaint from a lot of people. I guess the ultimate nuking would be to remove the fish, scrub the tank, sterilize the substrate or buy new, and set it back up again. Doesn't that sound fun? :roll:


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

Hey, I have an idea!
If they are chironomids, they lay eggs on the surface and emerge from the surface, so why not have a surface skimmer that goes through a fine filter sock or something similar? The eggs might go through it, but probably not emergers.

I wonder if any snails would eat them? Would a UV filter kill the eggs?

some links
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/Urban/midges.htm
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2401591
http://mrec.ifas.ufl.edu/Ali/AALI_018.pdf


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

I do see some of the fish eat some of them but for the most part they just ignore them. I do have plenty of water movement. I do think its in the substrate too, I'm going to remove most of it soon but its a big task. I've got like 4 inches! No matter how much i vacume it there seems to be LOTS of **** in there. I'd still like to try this copper solution, but should i do it before or after?


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

I've got some advice from another tread and they say its wise to remove all fish for a bit, while i remove all the substrate. Then add fish back and run bare bottom for 3 weeks while the gravel/sand dries out.

Sound good?


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

well, chironomid (midge) larvae live in the substrate, but to become adults, they must come to the surface and metamorph into the flying adult. The flying adult lays eggs on the surface, which settle to the bottom and grow into larvae, etc., etc. I.e., they are at the surface at least twice in their life cycle.

So the surface skimmer idea is not related to water movement at all. It is to capture the metamorphosing emergers at the surface and strain them out. Since the life cycle is short, I would expect all to be eventually filtered out.

It's definitely not as easy as a copper treatment. But, there is every possibility of another colony forming I suppose.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Darkside said:


> scrubjay said:
> 
> 
> > wow! :? My only guess would be to wipe the inside surfaces of the tank on a daily basis? I think they could be laying eggs on the damp glass, do you think? I wonder if you left the top more open so that the inside surfaces would be completely dry?
> ...


Did you ever get that info on a treatment??? I finally replaced all the substrate and dried out all the rocks and replaced them, but still the flies came back. I cant clean both filters and replace half the water...can I. I thought that wouldnt be good??

So I think a filter cleaning and a treatment in in order.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

I wouldn't clean filters and do a major WC like that it would put so much stress on your bacterial colony that you would def go into a mini cycle if not have to recycle your whole tank and risk losing your tank buddies to an ammonia spike! I've never had issues with bugs in the tank knock on wood but I was interested in the problem and pretty surprised that your mbunas aren't eating the larvae! My Mbunas eat everything fry, worms, flake, flies, anything that goes in the water they will eat including fingers they will nibble. I would try the skimmer seeing that the copper treatment will probably not be cheap and if these bugs are prevalent in your area they are probably going to just come back! Good Luck!


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

AfricanCichlidSweetPea said:


> I wouldn't clean filters and do a major WC like that it would put so much stress on your bacterial colony that you would def go into a mini cycle if not have to recycle your whole tank and risk losing your tank buddies to an ammonia spike! I've never had issues with bugs in the tank knock on wood but I was interested in the problem and pretty surprised that your mbunas aren't eating the larvae! My Mbunas eat everything fry, worms, flake, flies, anything that goes in the water they will eat including fingers they will nibble. I would try the skimmer seeing that the copper treatment will probably not be cheap and if these bugs are prevalent in your area they are probably going to just come back! Good Luck!


Up untill this happened around7 or 8 months ago, my tank was fine in this location for about 4 years? Why now? Oh and I do have a major Nitrate problem, all other levels are ok.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

How often are you doing your WCs?


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Usually once a week about 15-20% of my 55gal. Lately I've been replacing 15 gal every few days.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

and you are still experiencing high NO2- and NO3- levels?


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## jordan_101 (Mar 21, 2010)

My syno multies dig up my sand on a regular basis they might help in your situation seeing as my synos eat all my fry


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

My guys dig too, but end up piling up in spots because of it. I'm pretty crowded as it is, not sure if I should add more...Can you send me a picture of one.


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## jordan_101 (Mar 21, 2010)

If your crowded then I wouldn't recommend them they are schooling fish you could however get the smaller version it the syno and the second part starts with a "p" search synodontis on google you'll find them keep in groups of 3 or more if you add another filter made for a 20-40 gallon tank and that will support the bioload they produce


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

I have a fluval 304 and a fluval 305, And how long should it be untill my levels return to normal. I just checked it last nigh and ..

PH is 8.0
Nitrite is 0ppm
Ammonia is between 0-.25ppm
Nitrite is THROUGH THE ROOF at over 160ppm


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## jordan_101 (Mar 21, 2010)

How big of a tank


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

55gal


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## jordan_101 (Mar 21, 2010)

That is already under filtered most people have there entire tank circulate 10-15 times an hour I would suggest getting and aqua clear 110 as a hob or a few power heads but I prefer the 110 it would be perfect for your tank and would allow you to add a few more fish(syno cats) to help control your bug problem


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Add the 110 in addition to the 2 canister filters?


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## jordan_101 (Mar 21, 2010)

Yea then you could add a few more fish(synos) yo get rid of the bugs


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Also, got another prob..ever sice I got rid of a big blue peacock, my Mori and Demonsoni have been going at it. What can I do, I like both fish.


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## jordan_101 (Mar 21, 2010)

Rearrange your decor are if that helps now that the dominant fish is gone it will cause others to battle to take his place


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

I dont know what to do, there is soo much tension in the tank :-? I've been keeping the lights out most of the time until my nitrates are at a reasonable level...and all i hear is water splashing from these guys chasing each other around.


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## jordan_101 (Mar 21, 2010)

if you have 2 extra 10G tanks put one in each and give them a 2 week vacation from the 55 and re introduce them if you dont get rid of the dem because he will always cause problems i have a big enough tank to not worry about my dem he minds his own but if you want to keep them then i would suggest goingn to buy 2 10 gallon tanks and send them on vacation and rearrange the tank again


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

jordan_101 said:


> That is already under filtered most people have there entire tank circulate 10-15 times an hour I would suggest getting and aqua clear 110 as a hob or a few power heads but I prefer the 110 it would be perfect for your tank and would allow you to add a few more fish(syno cats) to help control your bug problem


Now that I've got the 110, how do i position all my heads to be most effective. The hob, two each of intakes and outputs :-?


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## jordan_101 (Mar 21, 2010)

Take a pic of your tank with the filter and powerheads and post it on here and ill try and help you place them to have the least amount of dead spots


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