# Please help me... pH in 10 and cyanobacterias



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

Hello! I hope somebody can helpme...

I have a 100gl tank for Tropheus duboisi.
Sand from a beach, filter Canister 1500, some river rocks, vallisneria spiralis, 4 tubes t5 28W white light, 2 tubes t5 actnic 28w.

I let the tank to cicle for about a month and then one week ago I put 10 dubs. Last week I have pH in 8-8.5 and it was growing some green algae over the rocks that the dubs eat but then tree or four days ago start to grow some green algae in the sand of all the tank, so I syphone all these, make a 20% wather change (same of every week) and put the output of the canister very low so no phosphate acumulate in the botton of the tank.

In the last 2 days after that, the green algae in the sand return even moore aggresive and today when I came from work found that all the sand is cover with this algae and it was making "cones" of algae that elevate from the sand. So I make a wather testing and the results was that the pH: 10!!! Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 (This 2 never up, I guess that is because when I setup the tank I use the canister from another tank, half of wather from mbunas tank and some river rocks from my pond)

Now I make a 25% wather change and syphone again all the cyanobacteria (obviously is that!) but I am really worry about the dubs! They are eating all the time like little pigs! I feed them with NLS and OSI spirulina. By the way they are 1.5 month old.

Here is the tank before and after...





































Please helpme!


----------



## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm no algae expert but that color suggests cyanobacteria as you say. I would vacuum it out right away or even remove the substrate. It makes toxins so do a water change too. Then you have two choices, either treat it with erythromycin or totally cover your tank and keep in in darkness for a week. Without light cyanobacteria will die. However, there is always of trace of it in tanks, and it will come back with the right conditions.

It can be caused by too much light or to many nutrients in the tank--like overfeeding. Using the beach sand may have also brought with it both the algae and the nutrients it lives on. The beach sand may also be responsible for your high pH but I wouldn't worry about pH at the moment.

Also, keep in mind that regular algae is the sign of a healthy aquarium. Cyanobacteria unfortunately is not really an algae and it is toxic.


----------



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

Thanks a lot...

And eventually wath implications have medicate the tank? Wath gone happen with the dubs? Ware they gone be ok?


----------



## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

Since your fish are so young, covering the tank may not be the best choice since you usually don't feed while doing the blackout method.

The product Maracyn is often found in fish stores. It is erythromycin. It will kill the cynobacteria quickly and is pretty safe for your fish. If the fish seem healthy now, they should do fine. Just reduce the amount you feed them and keep track of the water quality. Do small water changes since you don't want to dramatically change pH all at once by adding too much water that has a lower pH. Follow the directions on the Maracyn package.


----------



## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

Also, what ever you do, don't buy the algae killing products at the fish store. I've read too many posts about the product Algae-fix killing people's fish. Even though Maracyn is not advertised to kill cyanobacteria, it works and I have used it without problems to my fish.


----------



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

Whe have a forum here in Costa Rica (www.acuarios.desdecostarica.com) and a couple of days ago there was a theme about the problem that is found Maracyn here in Costa Rica but any way I will try to found it.

By the moment I will make small water changes, syphoning any focus of cyano and will add more movement at the botton of the tank with a power head. Also I will feed little less my dubs... anyway they eat so much algae from the rocks that I even think they don't need food 

Thanks a lot lotsofish


----------



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

I have been reading some info and I don't found if the antiobiotic treatment will kill the beneficial bacteria (nitrobacter, aerobic bacterias) of my tank?


----------



## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

Maracyn doesn't kill the beneficial bacteria.


----------



## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

:fish: 
Two things I would like to add:

First, be prepared.
If you use the Maracyn, watch your ammonia levels just to be on the safe side. 
_Should_ the benef. bacteria die off and ammonia start to rise, you can use Amquel to detox the ammonia.
I'm not saying this will happen, just keep testing be ready for it if it happens.
Amquel is a good declorinator, so even if you don't need it for this, you can use it anyway for your refill water after a partial water change.

Carbon in your filter, along with partial water changes, will help remove the Maracyn _when it is no longer needed._

Continued partial water changes and using Amquel will reduce the ammonia,* if *benef. bacteria does die off.

The second thing,
I noticed in your first post when you mentioned this:


> I have a 100gl tank for Tropheus duboisi.
> Sand from a beach, filter Canister 1500, some river rocks, vallisneria spiralis, 4 tubes t5 28W white light, 2 tubes t5 actnic 28w.


The *actnic bulbs *may very well be a part of what caused your problem. 
They are specific to salt water aquariums for algae growth, which is desired in salt water setups.
My opinion: don't use actnic bulbs in a fresh water setup.
 
hth and best of luck,
Alicem


----------



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

Thanks for the reply! :thumb:

The thing with the actinic tubes is that exactly I buy them to get algae in my tank so my tropheus eat it...

I don't medicate yet because with the siphone of the cyano and with the water change (25%) all the visible cyano has gone. I now that is very probable that will come so then I will medicate. The other thing is that is hard to find the maracyn.

Thanks again for your consern


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

There's some pretty extensive info on cyanobacteria here.

I would medicate as a last resort. Cyano doesn't warrant drastic measures, no matter how unsightly. 
The risk of toxicity can actually increase with the massive die-off that medicating would cause. Coupled 
with the decline of nitrifying bacteria, you could end up worse off. What you're seeing isn't that 
uncommon in a some new tanks. I've had success with simply continued substrate vacuumings and 
making sure there's a good flow of water over the substrate. I've got a situation myself where fish are 
spawning and raising young in one corner of my tank. It tends to collect detritus that gets buried by the 
digging. I avoid vacuuming that area while there's a cloud of fry for obvious reasons. After a time, I can 
see the cyanbacteria starting to get a foothold. Once the fry have gone the way of natural predation, I 
jump in and vacuum out the area, and the cynao issue is handled. At least until next time. It also 
seems to start where the sand meets the glass and is visible above the trim. Try reducing the amount 
of sand. Dubs don't need a deep sand bed. Go with just enough to cover the bottom of the tank for now. 
You've got a pretty deep sand bed there. You may even then be able to vacuum the sand out during 
water changes. Rinse it out and replace. I did that in my tank in it's early history. This stuff seems to 
be worse in the early going of a tank, and then declines and becomes less of a problems as a tank 
ages.

Again, I'd go with other solutions before medicating. There shouldn't be any need to rush to eradicate 
this as quickly as possible.


----------



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

Thanks for your time prov356 :thumb:

As I say in my last post I will waith to see if everything calm down with wather changes, moore wather movement and I will eliminate 2 of the white lights.

I will syphone the sand too.

Wath I should do with the problem of the pH? Do I stay calm just with wather changes?

Thanks a lot!


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Wath I should do with the problem of the pH? Do I stay calm just with wather changes?


I would double check that reading. I've never even seen a test kit that would register a value that high. 
Which test kit are you using?

Also, what are you KH and GH values?

And, what does your tap water measure, pH, KH, and GH?


----------



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

I use a brand new test of Tetra.

The wather of the tubery have pH: 7.5

Before the cyano-attack I have pH in 8.5 but that day I even do it twice to be shure and the color was a strong purpple (10), after de 25% wather change it down to 9. When I got this pH in 10 and check again I go to my planted tank to measure there and check that the kit is ok and that tank mark 6.5 so it's ok.

I donÂ´t now how is the GH and KH right now but when I came home will check it.

Dubs are perfect (at leas they seem like be ok) in that pH so I dont now if I should worry about it :-?


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I don't know if it'll be harmful either actually, I think you're in uncharted territory. Something in the tank, I 
have to believe, has elevated it considerably. I really don't know what would do that though. I'd have 
to guess the beach sand. That's all I see in there that's anything of an unknown. Do you have that in 
any other tank? Why don't you try putting some of the sand in a bucket of water for a few days. Run an 
airstone in it, if you can, and see it drives the pH up.


----------



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

Couple of months ago I have beach sand in another thank with Mbunas and everything was ok and a friend of mine have a 100 gl tank with dubs and have beach sand too and the pH is also ok. I belive that the cyano should have something to do with the pH problem because the 2 thing come at the same time. The problem is that I have been reading and no found relation betwen pH and cyano.


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> The problem is that I have been reading and no found relation betwen pH and cyano.


I had the same thought but haven't seen any documented correlation either. I'd just keep an eye on 
things then and see if it settles back. Not sure what else to suggest. Wish I could help more. If 
everyone seems to be ok with it, I wouldn't overreact to it. Just see if it settles back.


----------



## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

You may have just gotten beach sand that has something in it that is leaching into your water. I once got sand from the pet store that raised the pH and when I complained to the store they found out that a batch of the sand was in fact contaminated with something that raised the pH. You can replace the sand or, with time and enough water changes, it may come clean.


----------



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

Really thanks for the replys prov356 and lotsofish

You are really helpfull! :thumb: I gone make wather changes frequently to see if everything go fine. I will use by parameter my dubs and untill they eat and have good colors it supose everything gone be ok.

About the sand lotsofish... I pick up from a beautifull beach here in Costa Rica, this beach is one of the cleanest beach of all the contry, they even have an award for that. There is a lot of arrecife, corals and fishes there so I dont think this sand its contaminated. But thanks for the advice!


----------



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

Well... result that today the cyano is coming back 

Finally I measure gh and kh... *GH: 7 and KH: 5*

The pH is in 9.5... Today I will make another water change.

I start to belive that my problem is my low hardness! :-? So Wath I should do?


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I start to belive that my problem is my low hardness! Questions So Wath I should do?


Your values are within an ok range, but it you'd like some info on adjusting see the Rift Lake Buffer Recipe article.

Here's another good article on Practical Water Chemistry.

You'll find cyano will be determined to come back. It doesn't go away easily. Keep it at and you should 
win the war eventually.


----------



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

I belive that my KH should be more hi because is a tanganika tank. I think too that the pH is soo hi because this low KH... :-?


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I think too that the pH is soo hi because this low KH..


Actually, if KH drops too low, pH will drop as well. It's called a pH crash. Those links explain all of that. 
If anything, you should raise your KH just a bit, normally, but with that high pH, the rules sort of go out 
the window. We still don't know why the pH is so high. Raising the KH (carbonate hardness) only acts 
as a buffer against a pH crash. The hardness that's most typically associated with 'hard' water in a rift 
lake cichlid tank is GH or total hardness. A value of 9 is fine, and doesn't need to be adjusted.

I think if this were my tank, I'd keep it as is for a time while you see where the pH is going to settle 
before adding another element to this by adding chemicals that really aren't needed right now. If the 
pH starts to move up or down, you won't be sure if it's from what was added or something else.


----------



## Alexcescr (Jul 4, 2007)

I understand perfectly! :thumb:

So my hi pH can be the origen of my low KH as well? And no in the other way... I'm right?

I totally decide to leave the tank the way it is now and just do wather changes :wink:


----------

