# very sick male convict needs help please!



## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

recently bought a 3 foot tank and 4 convicts.(2 males 2 female one large one small of each sex) and one red tailed shark fish to go in. they have a decent filter, heater, hidey holes and fake plants to amuse and hide in. all fed aquacare pro-colour tropical food granules. all was going swimmingly until a few days ago when, what was the most active male (the larger one) started to deteriorate rapidly in every sense. no other fish in the tank has cause for concern at present. it started with a darkening of colour and a drop in his activeness/territorial self. next his fins all over look jagged and torn and paper thin, his scales are patchy inplaces, and to make matters worse the larger female has started attacking him any chance she gets which panics him and he flies into the side and floor of the tank. anyone got any idea as to what may be causing this?and only to this one?! I bought some anti-internal bacteria solotion and have put some in 3 days ago, but no change. will put some pics of the little fella up if I can work out how to 
advice be greatly appreciated


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

How long has the tank been set up? What are your water levels at for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH?


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

had the tank running for a few days then introduced the fish about 2 weeks ago. am unsure on the levels as I don't have a tester kit. used a sure start solution at the beginning and then a tap-water conditioner added now and again according to instructions. recently put a bigger filter in replacement with a carbon filter in it may have something to do with it?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

It is very possible that your tank is not fully cycled, the only way to verify if it is is to purchase an aquarium water test kit that contains ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests and if possible, also pH.

Meanwhile, perform daily 30% water changes adding enough water conditioner for the volume of water changed if you are using buckets to add new water. This should dilute any elevated ammonia or nitrite levels in your tank.

However, it is also possible that the fish pair bonds were disrupted by the move and this is causing aggression issues. Can you add any more decorations that will help define separate areas in the tank for the fish to hide from the aggressor?


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

thanks dee
we currently have 3 quite large caved ornaments and 6 fake coral plants. both large gravel and small on the floor. however the troubled male seems to be found more outside the hides at the moment always up against something. is this enough for the 4 convicts and redtail? or too much? is there a certain way I should have them layed out? the female has definitely increased aggression especially toward the struggling male.she has started to move the larger gravel around in her mouth as the male did before falling ill, should I start re-adjusting the outlay of the tank whilst they are? don't want to disrupt them anymore but if its going to help.. will get a tester kit tomorrow and go from there regarding the water levels


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

If the female is moving stuff around, she may be getting ready to spawn and this would account for her nastiness and she may end up killing anyone that gets in her way.

What are the full dimensions of your tank? I have a feeling it will be too small for a spawning pair of convicts. The usual suggestion is to relocate fish that are being harassed into a suitable size container or another separate tank that has a mature filter. Maybe even figure out how to install a tank divider in the current aquarium, whether pre-made or DIY though this will make the area available for the fish even smaller.

Could you possibly post a pic of the tank so we could help you figure out what can be moved around? Check out the link in my signature for Posting Pics, you will need to upload your pics to a free photo hosting website first.


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

the tank is 30 " long 15"down and 12" width. is this large enough to put a temporary split between the harassed and the female? she is continued with her aggression towards the poorly male but I gather this would be normal in nature to chase him away, but no where to go in an aquarium! have put a terracotta pot in the mix aswell for some more cover for now. I bought a tester kit and all my levels are fine, KH was a tadd high but nothing to worry about apparently. do have a spare separate tank that I could quarantine him in, and filter but only have one heater so my option would mabe be to divide the current tank?
the pics of the convict are the male as best as I could get him, u can see his fins are very deteriorated, his colour is much darker than the picture shows, and he just looks very confused. I noticed today he has two or three white tears or scratches on his side wether due to illness or fighting( as the female has had hold of him a couple of times now  )
thanks for all ur advice very appereciated


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the pics.

Please post the results of your water tests, it would be very helpful.

If you can't relocate the fish to another tank, I would put in a divider. Ideally you will need to decide what your plans are for this tank. Four convicts will be two too many when they want to spawn.

The water in the tank looks terribly cloudy but this could be due to a bacterial bloom. I recommend doing a 50% water change and don't forget to add in the water conditioner. Also, fill the tank up to the bottom of the trim, more water is always better to help dilute.


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

weve been changing the water recently daily between 30-50 percent and addind relevant water cond.the stones we bought are new ish and gave off a cloud when disturbed, but try not to do that too much.they were washed thouroughly before put in. will post water test results up soon.they were ok though according to chart for these fish. added a divider see how that goes


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Good to hear you've been doing water changes. Is the gravel or stones you put in the tank just regular aquarium gravel?

Hopefully your water test results for ammonia and nitrite are Zero.


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

yep test results were; GH-60-120 KH 60 PH 6.5 NO2 0.5 NO3 0-20 ( all according to colour ranges on chart) so yeah hardly no nitrite and ammonia. the gravel was bought as aquarium gravel. two different types in there. but both aquarium safe apparently. the divide in the middle of the tank has put the poorly fish at ease for now, not sure where to leave the red-tail though. hes not a troublemaker just quite a threat to the aggressive female apparently at the moment, and not to welcomed in the other side as the ill convict will not leave his position when he is close, especially feeding. he has a bit of colour back now but ever so ttimid and spooked at the slightest thing. the female who accompanies him in the divide is very much smaller but very caring for him. would this tank be big enough for a breeding pair if I were to find another tank for the others?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Greg, I am moving this topic to the Central American forum for better advice regarding aggression and stocking advice.


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

the sick convict is looking on the mend now, his fins are re-shaping and his colour is brigtning up again, fingers crossed he is saved. I think the divide has helped a lot, however has shrunk there space considerably.. we have the sick male and one smaller female in one side, and the larger female, smaller male convict and the red-tail in the other side. everyone seems happy now apart from the red-tail who now spends his time hiding from the female convict in the fake coral plants  a second tank may be on the cards when I can afford it. for now though would it be better to take the divide out once the sick convict is back to normal, or leave it in there leaving less fights, but less room for all...and a very weary red-tail.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

greg1988 said:


> for now though would it be better to take the divide out once the sick convict is back to normal, or leave it in there leaving less fights, but less room for all...and a very weary red-tail.


Once the sick con is back to normal, I would take the divider out. You can always stick it back in if things go badly.
In the mean time, I would get some kind of top/canopy so that you can fill your tank up. Space is space. Fish will utilize the whole tank. If anything, the extra height will often allow fish to pass by each other, with out getting chased or attacked. Space is always at a premium in a cichlid tank, especially a small tank like yours. Your wasting 1/4 of the tanks volume by not filling it.....but with out a top it's too risky to fill it up, as fish might end up jumping out of the tank.
Long term, your tank is too small for two pairs of cons. Might work for some time or it might not; difficult to predict. But probably sooner, rather then later you will need either another tank or a larger tank. IME even in a 6 ft. 180 gal., 2 male cons usually prove incompatible. Just a matter of time.


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

is that a crack in the center? and your tank looks verry verry verry unlevel


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

no crack new tank 4 weeks tops, looks more unlevel in pic is not too bad here. have decided to give two of the convicts to a friend with a new setup and no fish. hes taken a percentage of our water and appropriate chems to make his tank ready for them. we are keeping the recovering male, smaller female and the red-tail, for now. the tank has been filled right up so hopefully with enough hidy holes the red-tail wont clash too much with the remaining two convicts.


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

wortel87 said:


> is that a crack in the center? and your tank looks verry verry verry unlevel


 no the tank is good as new, picture makes it look worse its as level as the floor 
we have decided to give two of the convicts to a friend with a new setup. now have the larger female and smaller male, who have fry in there hide!


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

should I carry on with normal water changes and water conditioner with fry in the tank now?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I missed that you have fry!!! Congratulations!

I would continue with normal water changes and water conditioner, it shouldn't hurt the fry.

Are the parents getting along well and looking after the fry?


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

hi Dee
thanks yes they seem very happy so far and looking after there young impressively. militantly keeping there young in there hide even though the tank is now theres but I assume they will venture out in time.















(the tank looks unclean in these but its not in person honest!)


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Congrats on the fry. Did the beat up male breed with the smaller female?


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

no the beat up one went to a friend with a new empty tank with the smaller female as were getting harassed by these two(larger female and smaller male), probably due to these fry coming. apparently they haven't paired up yet as the beat up male is very nervous since his illness/abuse from our breeding pair. can anyone guestimate how long the fry will take to come out of the hide and start swimming a larger area?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I would expect that very soon if not already. There's only the red tailed shark in the tank with them, right? What are your plans with the fry? You don't really need to do anything. The pair will likely spawn again very soon. The remaining fry will likely be gone to predation before then.


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

yep there swimming about in different areas now. seem to have dropped in numbers quite a bit though(the red-tail has been moved into the same tank as the other two went, they are getting on great). I noticed our female darting from one end of our tank to the other almost frantically earlier today for a while, and a decreased number of fry. the remaining 10-20 seem healthy though and unphased. definite change in temperament of the female though. is this normal behaviour or should we try and remove the remaining fry into a nursery tank?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Removing the fry is your call. If you want the experience of raising fry then go for it. The one issue against you is that your main tank is not cycled, and putting fry in their own tank without a cycled filter is not a good idea. The other problem you're facing is that Cons are so very common that you may have serious issues rehoming them, even if you offer them for free.


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## greg1988 (Dec 30, 2014)

think im going to leave them to it they seem to be doing a great job on there own however tempting it is to raise some in another tank. spotted more tonight theres actually about 30-40 fry in there still, will keep an eye on there progress.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sounds good Greg....


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