# Help--fish are dying!



## saraalt (Aug 12, 2008)

I set up a 55 gal tank abt 4 mos. ago to which I added 6 Malawis which I'd had for about 6 months in a smaller tank. They were active and healthy. I added 10 new Malawis--5 at a time, about a week apart-- about two weeks ago.

All seemed fine. No serious aggression. In fact, I discovered some fry.

But several days ago, fish started looking listless and began dying off. No spots, wounds, bloated bellies or anything obvious.

Water tested within normal levels.

On the advice of a local experienced retailer, I did several water changes, thoroughly vacuumed gravel, added a bubbler, and treated for fungus (a couple fish seemed to be very slightly white around the mouth, but it could have been my imagination--looking desperately for a cause).

Fish still look sick, three more have died.

Any advice?

Much appreciated.


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## saraalt (Aug 12, 2008)

on Monday, nitrate was .40, nitrite was .50. After a water change and gravel vacuuming today nitrite was 0 and nitrate was .10.

Temp was abt 78; I raised to 80.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Your tank should not have any nitrite if it has been properly cycled.

What is your normal maintenance schedule on this tank?

What kind of filter are you using? Brand & model number are very helpful.

Do you normally do water changes every week and do you use some kind of dechlorinator product when you add new water?

How often do you feed & what food are you using?

Do you have a water test kit or are you taking it somewhere to be tested?


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## saraalt (Aug 12, 2008)

I've been doing a 25% water change twice a month. Use a Whisper 70 power filter--don't know the model. I use stress coat to dechlorinate.

I feed 2x a day w/ Xtreme cichlid diet--small sinking pellets.

I test myself.

I think I wasn't doing water changes frequently enough, may have over fed when I got the new fish and when I added the two new batches I didn't quarantine.

I am also worried that one of the buckets I used when the disaster first started may possibly have had a soap residue. I reserve it only for the fish but we got a new cleaning lady...

On the plus side, no dead fish this morning for the first time in days. Fingers are crossed.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Whisper filters are the worse filters on the market IMO, and those water changes are pretty minimal.

I would get better filtration for the tank, and step up the tank maintenance to weekly water changes of 30-40%.

You're always better off to overfilter a tank, I have at least double the filtration required on even my smallest tanks.

Are your test kits liquid reagent kits, or strips? How long has the package been open?

It's always best to quarantine new fish, even when the tank is relatively new and only has a few fish in it. You could have introduced some sort of disease or illness, but you're not really describing any symptoms other than the white around the mouth. Was this cottony or fuzzy in appearance, or did it just appear that the colour was "rubbed off" the lip area?

You should have a bucket that you don't use for anything other than the tanks. Put it where the cleaning lady can't find it.


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## saraalt (Aug 12, 2008)

Thanks much.

What filter would you recommend?

I use the API master test kit, not strips.

The white did appear to be "rubbed off." It's possible that aggression was involved but I never actually saw fighting going on.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

AquaClears work great for 55G tanks. I would buy two of them for the length of the tank...Can't remember the model numbers and I'm not at home, but make sure both will more than filter the tank size. If you can't buy two at once, continue to run the Whisper with one oversized AquaClear until you can purchase another one. (Regardless of how you do it, keep the Whisper filter running until the new filter media has time to stabilize as far as bacteria goes - I would recommend leaving the old filter running for a couple of weeks.)


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## saraalt (Aug 12, 2008)

thanks...I'll upgrade the filtering. Appreciate the help!


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## saraalt (Aug 12, 2008)

This morning, after pulling another dead fish out, and doing a 30% change and gravel cleaning, tests for Am, nitrate & nitrite show levels at 0.

Fish seemed normal for the first time in a week.

By evening, two who had been healthy appear near death.

Water temp is 80.

Ph is 8.

This is very disheartening!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If your test kits truly showed zero for your nitrates, that isn't possible unless you have a brand new tank or a heavily planted tank, so I'm a bit concerned about those. Can you take a sample to the LFS and get a second opinion?

Are you using a good dechlorinator with your water changes? One that removes both chlorine and chloramines?

Are there any outward signs of illness at all? Are all these fish eating up until their death?

What species do you have left? Any excessive aggression in the tank?

Without symptoms or signs of illness, the only thing I can come up with is water quality or aggression. :-?


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## saraalt (Aug 12, 2008)

I use Stress Coat with water changes.

This morning, NO3 was 5, Ammonia & NO2 were 0. Ph 8. Temp 80

There were no outward signs of illness at all. Last night, a perfectly healthy looking melanochromis auratis (from my original batch, abt 5") seemed suddenly to go pale and was dead later that night. My big blue johanni--4"-- who looked perfect yesterday, was dead this morning.

Survivors: melanochromis auratis (about 3 inches, and in the tank abt 2 weeks)
a peacock, also new (3")
Yellow lab, have had since tank was established last March (4")
Melanochromis johanni, since march (4")
blue peacock, since march (4-5")
and 2 - 4 fry of unknown origin-- I never saw brooding behavior

I don't see aggression. I may have overfed when I added the 10 new fish to the 7 I had, but if I did, all the tank cleanings would have settled that problem--I also didn't feed for several days. I fed sparingly yesterday (a little veggie flake)
and their regular food this morning, and they ate as actively as ever.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

If your tap water has chloramines added to it, (and it seems most public water supplies do), then the Stress Coat probably isn't cutting it. You need one that will bind the 'free' ammonia once the chlorine/ammonia bond has been broken. When you do water changes with a declorinator that doesn't properly deal with chloramines water changes actually become quite stressful for your fish and unfortunately the larger the water change you do the worse it is for your fish. 
So that may be part of what's going on here. Check out the declorinator article linked below.

As far as sudden, symptomless deaths there's a fairly short list as to the cause. A toxin in the water, aggression or a bacterial infection.

I think as Kim already suggested that more than likely its either aggression or water quality, since most bacterial infections will have some kind of outward signs such as fuzzy patchy white or gray growth on the fish's skin. (Although it can be an internal infection).

A toxin can get into your tank in numerous ways. Could be the bucket as you already mentioned but unless it was something that could cling to the bucket through numerous uses I don't think it could still be affecting your fish. 
Do you touch the fish's food with your fingers? This is a good way to transfer perfume, cleaning agents, gasoline residue, etc directly to the fish's food. Some fish will get a bigger dose of the residue depending on which food actually touched your fingers. 
Does the cleaning lady use sprays? Strong smelling cleaning agents? Does she clean the outside glass on the tanks?

IMO aggression is a strong possibility here. You've got some of the more aggressive fish in there and a new tank will often spark aggression since everyone wants to claim the new territory and spawn. (In addition to fry spawning usually means fighting off rival fish and chasing females sometimes to death).

Robin

Always a good idea to check your filters. A clogged filter can cause sudden death. If there's a build up of waste on the media rinse it off in a bucket of tank water.


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## saraalt (Aug 12, 2008)

For the last 5 or 6 days since my tank disaster began, I've done daily water changes, thoroughly vacuumed gravel, fasted the fish, and installed a bio wheel penguin 350 in addition to the whisper filter I had. Today was the first day there were no dead fish and the six survivors look healthy and active.

Whew. I don't know if I'm totally out of the woods but I'm starting to feel optimistic.

I'm going to give it a week and then will start thinking about re-stocking.


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