# Yellow Labs



## countryboy814

Could someone tell me if there is a visual difference between male an female yellow labs?
I have one with a very promenent black bar through the dorsel and black bars on lower fins(anal?)
One with a faint black bar in dorsel and no black on underside.


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## GTZ

The only reliable method would be venting.


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## RifterFish

The males are usually bright crayon yellow with jet black streaks on the dorsal, ventral and anal fins. The females tend to be a warmer yellow and sometimes dull enough to see vertical striping on the body. They have streaks but they are fainter then the males and are more of a greyish color. Now, that does not mean that your other lab is a female because a sub dominant male can hide those black stripes pretty well. Before I learned how to decipher the difference I thought one of my male labs was a female all the way up until 3 1/2 inches because he rarely ever showed his streaks. But for me, once I got some females there is a definite difference in color. Also, when the males get about 3 1/2 they will grow a beard (a greyish hue around the mouth and face). Watch them when they are feeding and interacting with other fish. My males used to flaunt their colors at feeding time. Below is a picture of my male lemon drop and the female is below him. The female will brighten up when they are ready to mate.
http://www.rifterfish.net/files/yellowsweb.jpg


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## DJRansome

Huh, I never noticed that on my labs. Yellow is same male versus female. And black fins are the same male versus female.


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## RifterFish

This is more true for the wild caught Labidochromis caeruleus. The more pure the lab, the more you see of the beard and barring.


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## ILCichlid

lol...none of what rifter said is true. You can find males and females with all the characteristics he specified.

Venting is the only real method with this species, everything else is just speculation.


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## RifterFish

Do your research before slamming someone's post. Look up pure Labidochromis caeruleus and what they originally looked like before hobby breeding took over. Look at the wild caught. The ones that are cookie cutter yellow and females look like males are a product of breeding the snot out of them. I do not think there are any true yellow labs out there. I have come close but these are still a couple generations away.


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## countryboy814

Now now guys...play nice. Okay lets say I have a male an female Lab. Would they automaticly mate because of no other choices? Or does the male need more variety?


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## countryboy814

I have some pics. Sorry not very good.
http://s1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii5 ... 82a685.jpg
http://s1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii5 ... dd1be9.jpg


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## RifterFish

Lo, that one pic looks like the fish is floating around your house. The males aren't usually picky. Its the females that are usually disinterested. The male will go after anything he can get. But when the female is ready she will give into him. I would add a couple more females for him if you want to breed them. He may stress her out by chasing her around the tank night and day. They are large enough that you should have noticed him shaking in front of her by now. It looks like a female but it is hard to tell from the pics. To know for absolutely sure net the fish and flip it upside down. Its pretty easy to tell at that size. If both holes are the same size - male. If one is noticeable larger - female. It only takes a few seconds.


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## prov356

RifterFish said:


> Do your research before slamming someone's post. Look up pure Labidochromis caeruleus and what they originally looked like before hobby breeding took over. Look at the wild caught. The ones that are cookie cutter yellow and females look like males are a product of breeding the snot out of them. I do not think there are any true yellow labs out there. I have come close but these are still a couple generations away.


All I have is Konings's 'Malawi Cichlids in their natural habitat'. It doesn't agree with what you've posted. What info do you have that is more credible or up to date than this book that we should be referring to? There are at least a few different 'yellow labs', or labidichromis caeruleus with some yellow in them, according to this book. There are some 14 l. caeruleus pictured in the book. The only ones with barring are the white variants. 'Yellow lab' is a very generic label. Which lab, specifically, are you referring to? The 'original' yellow lab was believed to have been collected at lion's cove, if I'm not mistaken. Pierre Brichard bred it and for a long time all we had in the hobby were it's offspring. It has some white in the ventral and anal fins. There is another lion's cove yellow lab that is white on the lower body. Depends on exactly where it was collected from. What some call 'ideal' is actually not lion's cove at all. It has solid black in the fins, and no white. It matches a variant from mbowe island, most closely. Lots of confusion out there. But, to say a 'yellow lab' should be this or that shows a lack of understanding of the wide range of variants that exist in the lake.

And, yes, let's play nice and discuss this respectfully please. :thumb:


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## Number6

countryboy814 said:


> Now now guys...play nice. Okay lets say I have a male an female Lab. Would they automaticly mate because of no other choices? Or does the male need more variety?


It is the females that are choosy... not the males.


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## RifterFish

This is a very good article to read on the origins:

http://www.midwestcichlid.com/showthread.php?19113-Interesting-read

Another one with a good picture.

http://www.petfish.net/kb/entry/386/

Pierre Brichard was the first to breed the yellow variant found (the very first Labidochromis caeruleus ever found was white with a blue beard). As you said, the 'ideal' electric yellow considered in the hobby was actually bred to look this way. It is not the electric yellow in its truest form. However the picture mentioned in the article taken by Brichard is on the internet and I am trying to find it. I came across it when I first began researching the species. It does not look like the Electric Yellow in the hobby today. The male does indeed have a beard and the females are a warmer yellow color with grey streaks on the fins. The male shows some striping as well but it is very faint on both. Like I said it goes away when they are ready to breed. All the beautiful yellows and blacks come out. But is the docile, non-aggressive state these features can be seen. But to add, I do agree that the most common found in the hobby is hard to differentiate by the looks. You can still see a few of the original lines out there if you search the images. I guess it is a matter of opinion on what the 'ideal' electric yellow should be. Just speaking from my experience and observations this is what I have found to be true. For me.


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## countryboy814

Thanks very much guys. I was just wondering if I could tell the difference so that I could go to LFS
and just buy say 2 more females.


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## DJRansome

Nope. Better to buy 2X the fish you need and remove extra males as they mature.


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## prov356

I think what Brichard found and where he found it is interesting, but that's all. Best for us today to buy something labeled with a specific collection point and bump it up against reputable sources to see if it's 'ideal' for that collection point. Ideal is subjective. What's not subjective is whether a strain is true to one collection point or another. Meaning, does this exist at some place in the lake, or has it been developed through line breeding alone. I would not buy something labeled 'yellow lab', just me. I have some purchased as 'lion's cove' and my dom male, at least, matches all pics I can find of lion's cove yellow labs in the wild, so I'm satisfied with that.



> (the very first Labidochromis caeruleus ever found was white with a blue beard)It does not look like the Electric Yellow in the hobby today. The male does indeed have a beard and the females are a warmer yellow color with grey streaks on the fins. The male shows some striping as well but it is very faint on both. Like I said it goes away when they are ready to breed. All the beautiful yellows and blacks come out. But is the docile, non-aggressive state these features can be seen.


First I've heard this. I hope you can find pic and info. But again, it's nothing more than interesting. A pic of what Brichard first had doesn't make that the 'ideal' yellow lab. And doesn't mean that's what they all should look like in the hobby today in order to not be labeled as 'line bred' variant.



> As you said, the 'ideal' electric yellow considered in the hobby was actually bred to look this way.


I don't think I said that, but it's very possible. There are location variants that match what many describe as 'ideal' and don't require further breeding, such as mbowe island.


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## RifterFish

If you are lucky, they will let you vent the fish at the store. I have one that lets me. Some stores have a no handling policy. If they put them in that little clear container, you could also lift it up and look through the bottom. Yeah, when I go to the fish stores in town people look at me like I am crazy. The first time I asked the fish assistant if I could hold the fish in my hand she gave me a weird look and said, "Um... I guess you can." Don't think many people ask to do that. I explained why after and she seemed relieved. Its hard to find people that know anything about fish in general that work at some of these places, let alone cichlids. I try to ask questions about males and females and where they come from when I see a new species in the tanks, but I always get 'I don't know'. So I write the names down and go home and research them before coming back.


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## ILCichlid

If you are lucky and searching for mature fish, you might be able to find some that are holding in the shop and that'll be a guarantee it's a female! I got one of my female lab's that way. Other than that, venting will be about your best bet or just buy a few more than you plan on keeping and as you find extra males, rehome them like mentioned in here before.

The other option possibly if you are in an area with a decent cichlid club or general aquaria club, try posting on their board and you might be able to find some experienced and reliable hobbyists who could vent the fish they are selling to get you what you want.


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## RifterFish

Yep, I agree. Love finding females holding in a shop. Takes the guess work out of it. And, if you are able to sell the fry you make your money back on the purchase of the fish. So you get the know of the sex, fun raising the babies, and make money. Win win. That is assuming the eggs were fertilized by the right species. Hybrid babies would be a bummer.


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## DJRansome

RifterFish said:


> That is assuming the eggs were fertilized by the right species. Hybrid babies would be a bummer.


Yes, that's the danger. No way to know. I'd buy the fish to guarantee a female, but then let that batch of fry go since I would not know the father for certain.


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## ILCichlid

Yep, the guarantee of it being a female is the best part.


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