# Bloat



## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

My new all male peacock/hap tank is going through a bloat problem. I recieved the fish from a sponser of this site and recieved them about three weeks ago. Within three days lost the eureka red.  Thought it was due to shipping stress. But to think about it now he was always hiding and never ate.

Then when I put the fish in the new 300gal tank, we noticed the otter pt jake, kinda keeping to him self and thought it was due to the new surroundings. Starting to keep a close eye on things this week, the wc tangerine tiger is just staring at the back wall and not eating, the butterfly has a very enlarged stomach and the ruby red is not eating....... I installed a uv sterilazer (sp) and removed the butterfly. He was so bad off I had to cull him. I have the tiger and ruby in the 29 hospital tank and after reading some and learning about bloat I treated with three tabs of clout.

Should I treat the whole 300gal tank or just keep a close eye?

Thanks for any replies.


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

My stock list:

aulonocara jacobfreiberbergi "Eureka Red Albino"
aulonocara jacobfreiberbergi Undu "Lemon Jake"
aulonocara stuartgranti Ngara "Flametail"
aulonocara stuartgranti Hongi Island
aulonocara sp. stuartgranti Maleri island
aulonocara sp. "Rubescens" *(SICK)*
aulonocara hansbaenschi Ntekete "Red Shoulder"
aulonocara jacobfreiberbergi Otter Point "Malawi Butterfly" *(Gone)*

copadichromis sp. "Mloto Undu"
copadichromis borleyi Kadango "Redfin"
protomelas sp. Likoma "Tangerine Tiger" *(Very SICK)*
protomelas taeniolatus "Red Empress"
protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" Taiwanee Reef
nimbochromis livingstoni
otopharynx lithobates Zimbabwe Rocks
synodontis eupterus


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

Do you see any stringy white feces?

If it is bloat you will likely have to treat the whole tank. I've had success with Clout when treating for bloat...

~Ed


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Thanks Ed, I was not sure what is the best course of action to take. Should I put the infected fish back in the main tank and treat them all? Not sure the LFS has enough clout.

YES, stringy fecies....

Thanks kinda desperate.....


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

Mitch101 said:


> Thanks Ed, I was not sure what is the best course of action to take. Should I put the infected fish back in the main tank and treat them all? Not sure the LFS has enough clout.
> 
> YES, stringy fecies....
> 
> Thanks kinda desperate.....


I'd definitely try and isolate the sick ones and ANY OTHERS that appear suspicious to you and treat them in another tank. After doing this, do several major water changes in the main tank and really vacuum the **** out of your gravel. Bloat can be contagious, particularly through the white feces, so I'd keep an eye on your other fish for any symptoms at all.

You should be able to find clout for sale. If you can't, there's online retailers like www.jehmco.com (<---I'd give them a call Monday and get a few packs expedited), www.drsfostersmith.com (<---another good retailer, but their cheapest shipping option is $10 for ground shipping), Kens fish http://www.kensfish.com/medicationcombinations.html (<---another good company to consider, cheaper shipping as well like jehmco.com has.).

You can try treating with QuICK Cure (any pet store should have this) as it has a similar ingredient as Clout (both contain Malachite Green, but Clout has Metronidisole and several other ingredients making it a much better treatment option than QuICK Cure) and may help in the mean time.

Personally, if you aren't worried about your silicone and maybe some plastic tank decor getting stained blue, I'd treat your main tank with clout.

Anyway good luck...

~Ed


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Thanks again...
Acrylic tank so not worried about silicone (new tank, so still working on). Just dumped 7 tablets in the main taink (clout) dumping the other 10 pack (now). I will order somemore from the lfs I got this from tomorrow. Thanks again for your advise..as stated, the two sickest are in a 29gal tank with a full dose, hope this helps. Good news is the tiger is starting to flair up a little, dont know if it means anything but havent seen him do that for awhile....


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

Just make sure you don't overdose the clout, and remove the carbon media.

Clout seems in my opinion to be harmless with Malawi peacocks and haps...I've treated them with it with no ill effects or signs of stress at all.

Follow this treatment plan, and besure to wash your hands afterwards (clout has carcinogens in it) and just a warning, it stained my wood floors a little bit so be careful when dissolving it:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... hp?t=24132


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

Seeing any improvements yet?


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Well I drove for 90min yesterday to get the clout. Treated the main tank with full dose and treated the two in the 29 with a half dose. I am keeping the lights off in the 29 and the fish are pretty scared, hiding, so I cannot tell if there is any change yet.

The main tank is jumping, all the fish are starving, espically the livingstonii :wink: but thats typical. I have noticed a couple of the fish have white stringy fecies, so I am glad that I am treating both tanks. The main tank is kinda in reverse of the schedule, first half dose then full, but I think I will do large water changes on both tanks tomorrow and continue with treatment plan.

Thanks for your help...


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Quick Cure isn't going to treat bloat, Ed...It's for external parasites...The metronidazole is the main ingredient necessary for treating bloat.

I'm sorry I didn't see this thread sooner.

Was the 300G cycled before you added the fish? (If not, you need to be keeping close check on the water parameters!)

With a tank this size, I would have removed the visibly ill fish to the 29G and treated them there, and then treated the rest of the tank with medicated antiparasitic food and frequent water changes. It's always best if you can get the fish to ingest the meds, and treating the water column doesn't always work as far as the really sick fish go.


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Yes, the tank was cycled, well the fish and all the filters/media left the 75 to the 300. I have been checking the water everyday and all is fine.

What antiparasitic food should I get? I dont know if the two sick ones will eat it, but I'll try. I know everyone in the main tank will, there starving...pretty sure the livingstoni is going to start following me around the house.

Oh and the fish are all sub-adult 2" to 4"

Thanks for your help...


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> Quick Cure isn't going to treat bloat, Ed...It's for external parasites...The metronidazole is the main ingredient necessary for treating bloat.
> 
> I'm sorry I didn't see this thread sooner.
> 
> ...


I figured that if his Lfs didn't have clout it wouldn't have metro, and that since one of the main ingredients is malachite green and something else which quick cure has both of it may help until he got clout.

Personally after treating with pure overdoses of metro (made by ARG, the people behind Ultimate) it never cured bloat for me...no idea why. Clout seemed to have worked on the first dose too, which is why I recommended it to him.

I'm not trying to backfire at you Kim, especially since you helped me a lot before, just explaining my advice ;-).

~Ed


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

Mitch101 said:


> Yes, the tank was cycled, well the fish and all the filters/media left the 75 to the 300. I have been checking the water everyday and all is fine.
> 
> What antiparasitic food should I get? I dont know if the two sick ones will eat it, but I'll try. I know everyone in the main tank will, there starving...pretty sure the livingstoni is going to start following me around the house.
> 
> ...


Jungle makes two foods, a flake with primarily metro and I think prazi, and another with Furan. I'd get the one with metro. Petsmart should have it, if not try jehmco.com or drsfostersmith.com.


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Ok, got the Jungle with metro (easier at petsmat) 5 min from home  . All the fish I thought were starving.... well, they are pretty picky, the only one eating the food is the Albino, its like it is the only food he can zero. :wink:

I have news for the picky eaters though, thats all they are going to get until they all show no signs / white poo at all, no matter how hungry they act....

Good news, in the hospital tank, it looks like the tiger is moving around a bit more, but the ruby stays pretty well hidden.

So I am thinking on large water changes tomorrow and treating only the hospital tank with clout. Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help them.

My fish and I really want to thank you for all your help :thumb:


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Water changes are always great when there are problems in a tank.

Did you soak the food in tank water before offering it?


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Yes, soaked the food in tank water. When I get home from work today I will try to feed them again, they should be hungry enough by then. All the fish (in the main tank) were very active last night sifting through the sand. So maybe they did eat some, hope so. After keeping a close eye on things, it seems most have white fecies  .

The two in the hospital seem unchanged or just scared, wondering if I should move them back to the main tank? If not my plan is big waterchange and a full dose of clout.

I am worried that the clout will kill of the good bacteria, has anyone had any experance with this?

Thanks


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If the tank is established, don't worry about the Clout and the bacterial load. If you follow the method below in my signature, you'll do enough water changes to keep things under control, anyway.


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

The picky eaters got a little  and I have been changing water for a while now. The fish appear to be looking better :thumb: 
Thanks again


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Good news, the main tank is now eating the medicated food and are looking alot better.

The hospital tank is getting a large water change now, but the fish are slowly swimming around, not eating yet but I am hopefull.

Maybe they are going to be ok....

Thanks for your help


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

Mitch101 said:


> Good news, the main tank is now eating the medicated food and are looking alot better.
> 
> The hospital tank is getting a large water change now, but the fish are slowly swimming around, not eating yet but I am hopefull.
> 
> ...


Here's what I'd like to know. Are the ones in the hospital tank showing any symptoms like white stringy feces or bloatedness (suddenly fat), labored breathing, any signs of stress really..? The good news though, even if you are still not seeing any obvious signs of recovery, the fact that they haven't died yet is good news in my opinion...

~Ed


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Yes, the tiger (the sickest) has a swollen stomach, breathing hard and some stringy fecies. He is moving around a bit more but still not top shape. The rubescens was not as sick and acting similar to the fish in the main tank, so I put him back in with the others.

Not sure what action to take with the hospital tank now. I was thinking 50% water change per day and see how he does. Or should I treat the tank again with clout? or some other med? I did pickup a jungle product called Parasite Clear fizzing tablets, when I got the food. It has metro in it so I grabbed it. Whould this be a option?

Thanks...


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

I'd keep using the same med you are using and keep on doing daily full doses of clout.

When dosing metro it's best to get the fish to ingest it. I never had any success with it when it was in the water column. I'd keep dosing clout daily and try and feed the metro food every few days (maybe once every 2 days?).


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If the fish isn't eating, you might try the JPC. It has praziquantel as well as metronidazole in it, which is a common veterinary med used for intestinal parasites.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> If the fish isn't eating, you might try the JPC. It has praziquantel as well as metronidazole in it, which is a common veterinary med used for intestinal parasites.


Clout has metro in it, and the medicated food has metro and prazi and Levamisole in it. I think he'd be best if he kept treating daily with clout and try to feed the medicated foods every few days than changing the medicated. His fish are still alive after nearly a week which in my opinion is a good sign that the medicine is at least stalling the disease. I think he should give it more time and keep up the daily dosing of clout...

I know you're not a fan of it but heck he could start dosing both now...as far as I know Metro is pretty harmless to fish and the prazi would be added to the water column. I just don't think he should stop clout treatment for another...


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

As long as the fish are still eating the medicated food, adding the praziquantel to the treatment regimen as far as the water column is concerned just might be the factor that tips the scales towards complete recovery.

You'll notice I indicated to do this for fish that _aren't_ eating.

I would _not_ suggest using both meds (Clout and JPC) together. Overmedicating a tank can do just as much damage as the disease / illness.

Also, fish can linger for quite some time with bloat once they stop eating, as long as a month, and in some cases, even longer. The longer they go without eating, though, the harder it is to save them or get them to eat again, so sometimes changing meds is the best thing you can do.

If the fish isn't eating, it isn't out of the woods yet, so trying another med _with_ metro _plus_ an extra antiparasitic medication would be my course of action at this point.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

I'll just stay out of this from now on....

Anyway, good luck *Mitch101*


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Well the tiger is not going to make it. Thought he was feeling better but started laying on his side and just went upside down.

I will continue the medicated food in the main tank with lots of water changes and keep a close eye on things.

Thank you for all your help


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Once they stop eating, it can be really difficult to save them, Mitch101. Sometimes no matter what you do, you're fighting a losing battle.

On the few occasions I've dealt with bloat directly in my own tanks, I've learned the main focus is on keeping the fish who aren't showing symptoms healthy, but I always give a good effort to save the ones who are showing symptoms.

Keep the JPC on hand. IMO, it's as good as anything to treat with, although it is a bit difficult as far as soaking foods, and I really like the fact that it has the praziquantel in it, too.


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