# bigger rocks for 24" deep tanks?



## LXXero

So I have a 120 gallon, 48x24x24, and I'm wanting to put some big rocks in there. I mean, big rocks. I go to my various LFS and some of the better ones do have natural rocks, but they're tiny little pieces. I asked the guy for big rocks and he shows me these rocks that i'd basically call small or medium size at best, and i'm basically like laughing at him....maybe for a 20-55 gallon but not for a 120 gallon!

So what to do? I am planning to do an all mbuna / malawai type setup, i've already got 8 bags of caribsea cichlid sand, which I haven't put in the tank yet. I'm also paranoid about dropping big rocks in my tank too, so I am sort of curious what everyone is doing in this kind of situation. I'd really like to have rocks that come up at least half the height of the tank, if not more, and i'd prefer it not to be tons of separate rocks stacked on each other, but rather bigger pieces. Am I crazy? Is this gonna just be too unsafe? What to do?


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## LXXero

OK so i know malawai is basically granite rocks, I'm finding there's a local variety here in colorado called "mountain granite" or "mountain rip rap" and it seems like this stuff would be perfect:


















If I can find big pieces like that I think i'd be all set, but then the question is how much is too much? If that tape measure in the first picture is correct, I could practically fit that whole pile in my tank. And i'd almost want something like that...

I've found a few landscaping places that seem to have this stuff, so I may call around this week and see what I can find.


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## DJRansome

They are fine, but you are right to be concerned about being able to pick them up out of a 24" tall tank...I have enough trouble with my 18" tall tank and I have long arms.

It's much easier to fill a low tank to the rim with rocks, but I usually end up about 1/3 the height of my tank.

Maybe consider a 3D background instead for the upper reaches?


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## LXXero

Yeah, I'm like 5'11" and I can barely reach the bottom of this tank, towards the front I can, but the back, no way, and 24" high is probably an understatement, I think with the trim and everything it's more like 25-26" by the time all is said and done. I actually just bought myself a little step stool type thing today to hopefully make it a little easier to work on.

It's tempting to just pay my LFS owner to lift the rocks in for me, not that I would really want to pay him for something so trivial, but I'm sure he'd do it, he's like 6'6' and has ridiculous reach, I was even joking with him about how he's literally built for working on fish tanks, lol. I really should try to come up with something that i can manage myself though. Last thing I want is for me not to be able to move stuff around for cleaning or what have you.

I was originally considering a 3d background, but I feel like it's more work than I want to take on, and I have this tank setup in such a way I could maybe later do saltwater if cichlids get boring, so i'm trying not to over-commit to any particular decoration scheme...I did just meet a guy at another LFS who is all about making custom 3d backgrounds though, I was so tempted to take him up on that....

It's partly why fake rocks have been somewhat on my mind though. Even If I use mostly real rocks, I suppose I could use fake-rocks to make up some of the higher levels. I would want some pretty convincing looking fake rocks though, since they would literally be on top of real rocks, so crappy rubbery looking things wouldn't do at all...i'd even consider gluing fake rocks to real rocks or something.

What I almost wish existed, was someone who like, hollowed out real rocks. Like, bored holes into the bottom of a rock with a diamond drill to make them lighter or something. I am not sure if that kind of thing even exists though. Kind of like a real version of cichlid rocks, but without the intention of it being a cave, in fact I would want to hide the hole or even cover it up so nothing could get in there. Cichlid rocks would be an option, but it's so rare I ever see them and think oh that looks like a real rock...they just look too fake to me...


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## areuben

*** had large rocks in high tanks like 150's, weighing probably 50-60 pounds and never found it an issue. And a 72 x 18 150 is 29" high if I remember. Getting them in was relatively easy as long as you could get a good grip. I would line the inside of the tank glass with egg crating or cardboard., or if water is in the tank I have used plastic board of some type. In my setups which were Tanganyikan at the time I had 3-4 very large rocks in the tank with a few smaller ones. The larger ones never needed to be moved for cleaning, so not an issue. The rocks looked very impressive with their size and really stood out. In recent years I have gone to different biotopes and have gone with resin rocks from Universal Rocks (river rock) - they have been great, look very natural and allow me to cut sections out of the backs for caves for catfish, etc. They aren't cheap but last forever. Unless you're the type that likes to change up every 3-4 months, either scenario above has its upsides and downsides but very doable in a 24" for the real stuff. Universal also has some scaled down versions of backgrounds called feature rocks, which look pretty impressive as DJRansome suggested.


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## LXXero

doing the egg crate thing is tempting since i'm pretty sure i could get & fit the stuff easy enough. I also was tempted to maybe glue individual rocks to smaller pieces of egg-crate, to give the rocks a base essentially. I got that idea from a member here....

the tank has water but it's empty otherwise, I could drain it again no problem....when you said cardboard, do you mean just using it as a temporary thing while loading the rocks up?


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## LXXero

So...I ended up speaking to the owner of my LFS about some other work we are doing on this pvc manifold I'm building, and I threw this question at him while I was at it...

andd...i guess he's ordering a palate of rocks for me, lol. That was almost too easy. It sounds like he prefers to use some kind of volcanic lace rock, which looks OK to me, it's a quite a bit lighter too, so I'd also be slightly less worried about stacking it higher than I would say, huge solid chunks of granite. We'll see I guess!

I'm expecting it either late this week or probably late next week. I've already got plenty of substrate ready to go, so this tank is nearly done after this. Nearly cycling time...


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## Deeda

I'm also using a volcanic rock called Feather rock and when dry it is light as a feather but once full of water, weighs quite a bit. I do have a few volley ball size pieces but most are bowling ball size. I stack directly on the bottom glass before adding substrate.

I second the idea of using towels or cushioning material to protect the glass prior to filling the tank with water in case you drop the rocks but since you already have water in the tank, just use a bit more care when placing the rocks.


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## newcichlidiot

Big rocks are cool, just make sure you got a gorilla grip on them. Obviously they must be placed and carefully at that. Speaking of careful if you are then the egg crate is not needed, in my experience. Just go to one of your local landscape supply yards and walk the place, you will find what you need. There are many of these places along the front range, just take your time and get what you want. I hope that was $0.02 worth. Have a great day!


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## areuben

yes using cardboard or eggcrating is temporary along the side glass for protection or a towel as deeda said. For large rocks, I would always use eggcrating underneath unless the rock is very flat otherwise I was always worried about pressure points with very heavy rocks. I would either have eggcrate across the entire bottom or just cut out a piece to fit directly under each rock. If it was a tank for sand sifters, I would cut a piece for under the rocks only, obviously. If you decide to go with heavier type rocks, leave your water in the tank about half way up. The water will still offer some buoyancy when you get the rocks in, believe it or not - you'll feel the difference as you lower them into the tank. And at the end of the day, whatever you choose, unless as I suggested earlier that you like to change things up all the time, your only doing this once. Just prep properly. As newcichlidiot said go to a landscaping place and you'll find amazing stuff for 10-20 cents/pound.


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## Aaron S

I was going to suggest pretty much what you ended up with. My biggest rock is 60lbs and I am a scrawny 135lbs and 5'8" -got it in the tank (it was darn heavy though and I almost dropped it). Think about the density of the rock, the volcanic rock is pretty much ideal for having a light rock that is large. Obsidian is another volcanic rock that is decently light. One other suggestion for fake rocks that I have heard of are those ones that hide sprinklers in your yard. I think you will be just fine though.


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## LXXero

I did end up buying some egg-crate today. Not sure If I'll use it or not, or if i'll just use it under the rocks or glue it to the rocks....we'll see I suppose! I'm gonna see what the owner of my LFS thinks. I didn't realize how thin this stuff is, it's not nearly as tall as I thought it would be, I imagine fish would have to dig pretty deep to expose it, at least with the amount of sand I want in there....

I also got the work finished up on my manifold today. I'm pretty happy with how things are coming, I'm still waiting for a piece or two but all the gluing is done. Sump is pretty much done. Not sure if I'll try to start cycling it once the glue dries, or if I'll wait til after the rocks and such. I'm still debating how I want to cycle it as well! It's getting close though. My first post about this tank was the beginning of may, so it's been nearly 2 months of work so far!


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## DJRansome

a-the fish will dig to the glass
b-deep sand is a maintenance headache


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## Aaron S

Yeah, the fish will find the egg crate. I put egg crate under my large pieces and also under pieces I wanted to defy gravity (I shifted the center of gravity over its natural position by attaching the rock to egg crate). I tried to cut the egg crate out to just barely fit underneath the rock and siliconed it to the bottom. I then took little pieces of the same rock and attached them to the visible egg crate with silicone. 1yr in the tank and that worked so far.


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## LXXero

Oh yeah Aaron, I think your tank build was the one that inspired me to glue egg-crate to the rocks! I think I was asking about something else in my original tank build thread, and you showed me the thread with your tank build which is where I got that idea!

I did manage to cut it to fit, but I'm not really happy how it's sitting, it's kind of bowed. So I have a feeling I won't use it that way. Also I totally smacked it against my 5gal bucket and managed to chip a piece off. This stuff just seems so flimsy I'm not sure what it really is protecting against, a falling rock would likely crack this stuff easier than the glass...

How deep is too deep? I think I have 8 20lb bags of caribsea cichlid sand, though I don't have to use it at all by any means. I was thinking 1.5 - 2" though?


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## DJRansome

I like it to be either not visible over the frame of the tank or barely visible. The part you can see through the glass at the bottom sides/front invariably gets dirt/algae is becomes a maintenance issue.

So one inch is plenty...two inches too much. But if you are willing to stir it all up weekly a ton of sand can work.


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## LXXero

I definitely want it to cover the silicon and the trim so it has to be at least an inch minimum just for that, I think.

The trim is pretty thick on my tank, so I'm still leaning towards like 1.5". The notion of not seeing the sand over the trim would be new to me, on most of my smaller tanks that would be very impractical since the trim is smaller. I also know things have a tendency not to stay perfectly level in there either, so I like having enough extra that i can move some around to make up for low spots or what not. This is also my first sand tank so I'm not really sure what to expect. I've only done gravel up til now.


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## newcichlidiot

These four rocks are spread out on the tailgate of my truck. 140# worth. Less than $25. For a five foot 120 gallon tank. I took an angle grinder and flattened out (mostly) the area I wanted for the bottom. More $0.02


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## newcichlidiot

Here is what four rocks about 140# looks like in a 5' foot 24" high 120 gallon


oh, and that is fifty pounds of PFS, probably will only use half of the other bag.


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## DJRansome

I always leave a space surrounding the rocks enough for the python to siphon the substrate and nothing touching the glass to allow for scraping room.


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## newcichlidiot

Duh! you wanna see em again, no thanks twice is enough. Sorry


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## LXXero

That looks pretty **** nice I must say!

I'm still waiting for my LFS to figure out the rock situation. His normal landscaper guy is not responding so I guess he's trying to find another good supplier for me. I probably could just check out a few of the ones I've found myself as well...

The tank is nearly done now. I had one piece that leaked and I ended up buying some PVC glue and re-doing it myself, also while i had the PVC glue out, I made a bunch of new attachments for my python out of PVC, cause hey why not! made some attachments to drain the tank to preset levels, like 20% and 40% is my guess should make water changes a breeze. I'm thinking I'll probably drain it at least 40% if not more when I add the rocks and sand. Then probably let everything settle.

I'm not sure if I'm dedicated enough to take out the angle grinder to some rocks, though. I don't actually have one, first problem, lol. We'll see though.


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## newcichlidiot

If you want to PM me I will tell you where I got them. I believe they have several locations in Colorado. All for less than $25, c'mon your LFS won't get you one big rock for that!


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## The Dude315

I would DEFINITELY recommend using egg crate. My tank is 24" high and I have two stones which are ose to 20" tall. The are obsidian and the large one ways more than 80lbs. I'm a very big bodybuilder and I'm 5'9 and 240 lean. I couldn't safely get the rocks in myself... and now I can't safely get them out. I'm worried that I may have to remove them as the fish get bigger. My point is that egg crate costs nothing and takes no time to do, but you will be happy you have the extra protection


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## LXXero

well, i did cut out the eggcrate and everything. it fits just perfectly in fact....I have the option to use it, or not...it's not too late!


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## LXXero

i will say this, i'm starting to think the decision to go with lace rock is probably a good one, because for a given size, it will always be less weight. it might not look as cool as that. although when you stack it, it tends to look like it's all one big piece, but i want to avoid stacking too much...supposedly we might get 2 palates of the stuff, so i'll have a nice variety to pick through.


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## LXXero

ROCK TIME!!!

soo my LFS tried to get me rocks for like 2-3 weeks but the guy never came through. He ended up pointing me to another..not-quite-so-local-FS, and this lady who owned the place had it all...giant lace rocks, giant holey rocks....she basically said she has trouble getting the lace rock now too and this is the last of it...so i might have lucked out since i really like the one piece i got.

so this first piece is some kinda lace rock and i really liked how it looked stood up this way but it wouldn't stand by itself, i ended up chiseling off the bottom left corner and then the piece that chipped off, i ended up making a prop on the back that i glued back onto itself with superglue and some baking soda as an accelerant....i also used a couple of chipped off pieces to wedge around/under it just as extra security, but i think my superglued "foot" works nicely. the piece that chipped off has an L shape to it, with a flat surface, so it would actually hold the rock in place pretty well even without glue, but the glue made it about a million times easier to position everything....I HOPE it stays anyway! I really like how it looks.

















here's all the other rocks, all but this one aren't in the tank yet of course...










the rock on the top left has a ton of algae which is mostly why they are soaking. you can't tell in the picture because i faced the algae down....I'm going to rinse the rest off and bleach just that one rock i think...the others are coming out and going into the tank shortly!

and here's a trippy picture of the eggcrate from the top! this picture makes me realize why I love 24" deep tanks!


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## LXXero

oh yeah, they're in!!!


















ended up having to bleach the big one on the left there, it had all kinda algae and nasty stuff on it, but now it looks brand new or something. as brand new as a rock gets anyway, LOL.

I'm pretty happy with this, but i think im gonna move the bigger of the two smaller holey rocks in front of the big rock stack and sort of make even more caves inside of it. Gonna add the sand shortly!


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## LXXero

so i said to my wife "I think it'd look nicer if the big pile of rocks was on the right side...." and she agreed....and then i said....that's gonna be a pain im gonna have to remove half the rocks....sooo...I redid the whole thing.

i think this looks even better though...the whole design like flows together now...









haha you can totally tell which rock i bleached. I didn't want to bleach them all cause i like the normal color for the most part, it's just that rock was completely covered in algae pretty badly so i had no choice really. I'm sure it'll get more algae later, lol.


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## LXXero

sand added!


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## Fogelhund

areuben said:


> yes using cardboard or eggcrating is temporary along the side glass for protection or a towel as deeda said. For large rocks, I would always use eggcrating underneath unless the rock is very flat otherwise I was always worried about pressure points with very heavy rocks. I would either have eggcrate across the entire bottom or just cut out a piece to fit directly under each rock. If it was a tank for sand sifters, I would cut a piece for under the rocks only, obviously. If you decide to go with heavier type rocks, leave your water in the tank about half way up. The water will still offer some buoyancy when you get the rocks in, believe it or not - you'll feel the difference as you lower them into the tank. And at the end of the day, whatever you choose, unless as I suggested earlier that you like to change things up all the time, your only doing this once. Just prep properly. As newcichlidiot said go to a landscaping place and you'll find amazing stuff for 10-20 cents/pound.


I've never heard of cardboard. Wouldn't it break down pretty quickly?

I've used Styrofoam though.

I easily have 80-100 lb rocks in a couple of my 24" tanks. The ones on taller stands I use a stool to reach properly. Normally with such large rocks, I will put the rocks in first, built the entire rockwork, and then add in the sand after.


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