# DIY Background #8



## mightyevil

As some of you may have already know, background #7 was not to my expectations. I have already started number 8 and here are some pictures of today's progress.

I still need some carving to do but this is what I have for tonight, I expect to fish carving tomorrow.

This is definitely the look I was going for, the depth of the background is nice and deep...


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## Butterslug

I'm really feeling this one, finish and install!


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## mightyevil

:lol: Thanks! Gonna finish by the weekend I'm sure.


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## Tinga

Isn't the whole process nice and creative?
You can plan as much as you want, but ultimately... you get to create something different.
I could have easily started on multiple backgrounds to try different techniques, new textures and colors.

I love the process, you really can't go "wrong" with it

Look forward to seeing #8!!


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## mightyevil

Thanks Tinga, yes I too think that the process is very intriguing and extremely fun. Can't wait to finish this one.


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## FishyOne

opcorn:


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## Liam_Doherty

That's looking like it'll be awesome. Can't wait to see the finished product.


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## Malawi_Junkie

=D> Looks great... I agree lots of fun being so creative.


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## BigFish77

You should post all 8 in a topic or just wait til you get up to version 10.0


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## mightyevil

Thanks Liam!

Thanks Malawi, lots of fun but the tip of my fingers are sore from carving with them and my fingers were getting cramps :lol: didn't know it could happen! 

BigFish, that is a good idea, I might have to do that sometime!


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## khs2424

Man, you are really pumping those things out pretty quick! I think (and I am sure MANY will agree) that you should look into selling some of those baby's. :wink: If not here, you should look into eBay. I am sure you could make a killing!


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## cancichfan

Very impressive. How much tank depth do you need for that depth of background?

I agree with Bigfish77...it woud be nice to see the progression.


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## mightyevil

*KHS*

I haven't had any luck selling them, I have had about 6 people ask but after I contact them back they never seem to answer me :roll: .

I will be trying to sell #7 as soon as I am done with it, hopefully someone wants it.

*CANCICHFAN*

I am using about 90% of the tank depth but it will be used as a grow out tank anyway so I am not too worried about space. Additionally I will attempt a sump setup so I will be replacing some or most of the displaced water.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to do that.


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## cjacob316

does the styro you use come with the plastic and foil backing? how thick is the piece?


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## mightyevil

I used 2" thick for this project and the styro has plastic sheets covering the front and back.

Here is the update... This is the final product as far as carving goes...


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## mightyevil

cjacob316 said:


> does the styro you use come with the plastic and foil backing? how thick is the piece?


This is exactly what I use...
http://www.lowes.com/pd_15357-10477...-_-SC_Insulation Accessories_Area1-_-22108_5


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## mightyevil

Here is where I am at right now...


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## cancichfan

Is that the "Dry-Lok" you were telling me about? If not, what did you colour it with?


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## mightyevil

Yes, this is the Drylok with "charcoal quickcrete cement pigment".

Here is the background with its final colors... Not as bright as I wanted it but I think it looks real good like this.

with flash...









without flash...









What do you guys think?


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## kitana8

Okay... Would you please, PLEASE explain in details how you obtained such a nice color? That's exactly the color I want for my futur background. I've done one cement background for reptiles and the color doesn't quite match what I like, I found it was pretty difficult to obtain a natural looking blend of different colors...

That background is awesome, better than #7 in my opinion. Great depth.


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## newforestrob

to bad you don't live in Toronto I'd pay you to make me one (looks great) =D>


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## Liam_Doherty

HOLY ****!!! That is spectacular. Great colour and great depth. Thanks for the pics.


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## cancichfan

Awesome. You need to change your avatar to "Mightyartsy"
You are setting the bar pretty high but that's good. Just more inspiration to aspire to. 
I would also like to know how you get the colour applied. Airbrush?


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## Killaklipp

Amazing BG, Looks great.


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## mightyevil

kitana8 said:


> Okay... Would you please, PLEASE explain in details how you obtained such a nice color? That's exactly the color I want for my futur background. I've done one cement background for reptiles and the color doesn't quite match what I like, I found it was pretty difficult to obtain a natural looking blend of different colors...


Thanks!

First off, you need to choose your background/base color, I have had best results with a black base color. Then you need to try and cover any exposed areas that you may have missed. Then you use your main color, this will be the color that will make your background really pop (In my case I chose white). In this step you will only need about half a cup for your main color, maybe less. Then you will need t set up your pallet with a little black and white to create different shades of your main color (that is if you did not chose white for your main color). With a dry brush barely dip it in your main color and use a tiny amount of black or white, mix the small amount of paint on a dry cardboard or pallet if big enough. It will seem as if your brush is dry and with no paint but start brushing the brush against the background and you will see the rock starting to come alive. Repeat the process of mixing the paint and hit a different area, so on and so forth. We are not done yet, chose a different color for highlights (in my case I chase a light brown). Repeat the process of mixing you paint like you did for the main color and brush along the edges of all your rocks, you don't want to overwhelm your main color with your new color, we just want to create highlights on the rocks. Once done with the whole background you should have something that looks like the latest pictures above. Hope that all makes sense and that it helps!

That background is awesome, better than #7 in my opinion. Great depth.[/quote]

Thank you! I think so too!



newforestrob said:


> to bad you don't live in Toronto I'd pay you to make me one (looks great) =D>


I will be checking shipping charges soon to see how much it would cost me to ship as far as across country. Maybe it won't be much since they are very light weight... I will let you know.



Liam_Doherty said:


> HOLY #%$&!!! That is spectacular. Great colour and great depth. Thanks for the pics.


Thank you! :thumb:



cancichfan said:


> Awesome. You need to change your avatar to "Mightyartsy"
> You are setting the bar pretty high but that's good. Just more inspiration to aspire to.
> I would also like to know how you get the colour applied. Airbrush?


Thank you! What a compliment! 

No airbrush, it is all done freestyle and it is all done with Drylok and Quickcrete cement pigment. I explained the process above, hope it makes sense.


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## mightyevil

Killaklipp said:


> Amazing BG, Looks great.


Thank you! :thumb:


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## cjacob316

great job man, if i were you i'd make posts on cl, post up pics of your work, then offer services to build these tings for people, charge them up front, it wouldn't cost you anything


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## gtphale

Don't worry about color to much as it will have algea on it in no time. LOL


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## bmweiler09

I would definitely buy one! let me know if the shipping doesn't cost too much.


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## mightyevil

cjacob316 said:


> great job man, if i were you i'd make posts on cl, post up pics of your work, then offer services to build these tings for people, charge them up front, it wouldn't cost you anything


Thanks!

I am seriously thinking about it, That would be very cool but I can only pump out one per week and that's if I don't have a busy week.


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## mightyevil

Well, let me ask you guys this?

How much would you guys pay for a background like this one, seriously? BTN backgrounds are extremely expensive but they probably last longer, I don't know.

1 gallon of Drylok $22.95/4 = $5.74 (I used about a 1/4 of the gallon on this one)
1 Sheet of styro 2"x48"x96" $24.12
1 silicone caulk $4.99 x 2 = $9.98
*Total Expense = $39.84* (approximately)

There is also small expenses here and there on window mesh, tubing, latex gloves...

So I think that my total expense is right around $45.00 for a 55 gallon background. For bigger backgrounds of coarse the amount of materials used would be more. That being said, you guys think that $150 for a 55 gallon background is reasonable?


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## Malawi_Junkie

:drooling: You've just hit it out the park with this one, even better than #7. Now you've got me wanting to start another one. As I've said, you keep on getting better and better.
$150 is very reasonable for a one of a kind!


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## mightyevil

Thanks Malawi!

Anybody else think $150 is reasonable? Too much? Too little?


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## cancichfan

How many hours do you have invested? The carving can't be quick.


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## mightyevil

Carving took me anywhere between 4-5 hours for this particular background.


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## mightyevil

Just made some drains for my HOB filters, I had to drill two holes on the background for filtration... I hope they dont make the background look bad, one had to be pretty high, a little over half way to the top. I have to repatch and mold the background in those areas again so that they are not so apparent.

Here are the drains I made, these are fry safe. :thumb:


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## cjacob316

i think 150 is very reasonable for people who would rather buy one

but i wouldn't make a few then try to sell them, i'd offer a service to make them


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## mightyevil

Definitely would want to receive the money before making one, lots of tricky people on the internet and I wouldn't want to use my money to build before I even know it is going to sell. Good point!


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## cjacob316

it's worth posting a free add on cl for the service, if you want to put the time into it


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## frankiehr

what do u use to seal the cement?


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## cancichfan

mightyevil said:


> Carving took me anywhere between 4-5 hours for this particular background.


What I was getting at is how much your time was worth. Its obvious that you rea||y enjoy making these. But, after your inputs it |ooks |ike you have about $100. If it took you 20 hours to do, inc|uding getting materia|s, carving, painting, packaging, c|ean up etc., that's not much per hour so you wou|d need to do it for the enjoyment. If you cou|d crank one out in 5 hours, it wou|d be more profitab|e. But, I sort of get the fee|ing that profit isn't the driving factor.

I guess I was thinking that $150 may not be enough depending on how much time you've got into it. But, if you are happy, I think that there wou|d be peop|e out there that wou|d be more than happy to purchase a custom background.

I'd probab|y PM some of the peop|e that have said they'd be interested and see how serious they were before I put something out there for the wor|d to see.

You seem to rea||y enjoy doing these and you do them we||. Sometimes when you put money into the mix, it can go from something you enjoy to a grind if you're not carefu|.
Just my thoughts.
Graham


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## cjacob316

frankiehr said:


> what do u use to seal the cement?


he is a strictly dry-lock user, no cement, i do the same


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## mightyevil

cjacob316 said:


> it's worth posting a free add on cl for the service, if you want to put the time into it


Yes, it is worth putting up a free listing for custom backgrounds. I would have to set a safe time frame for myself, maybe three weeks or so, I tend to go out at least 2 weekends a month.



frankiehr said:


> what do u use to seal the cement?


Yes, like Jacob said, we use no cement, its over rated. Drylok fan only! :lol:



cancichfan said:


> mightyevil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carving took me anywhere between 4-5 hours for this particular background.
> 
> 
> 
> What I was getting at is how much your time was worth. Its obvious that you rea||y enjoy making these. But, after your inputs it |ooks |ike you have about $100. If it took you 20 hours to do, inc|uding getting materia|s, carving, painting, packaging, c|ean up etc., that's not much per hour so you wou|d need to do it for the enjoyment. If you cou|d crank one out in 5 hours, it wou|d be more profitab|e. But, I sort of get the fee|ing that profit isn't the driving factor.
> 
> I guess I was thinking that $150 may not be enough depending on how much time you've got into it. But, if you are happy, I think that there wou|d be peop|e out there that wou|d be more than happy to purchase a custom background.
> 
> I'd probab|y PM some of the peop|e that have said they'd be interested and see how serious they were before I put something out there for the wor|d to see.
> 
> You seem to rea||y enjoy doing these and you do them we||. Sometimes when you put money into the mix, it can go from something you enjoy to a grind if you're not carefu|.
> Just my thoughts.
> Graham
Click to expand...

Like you said, it really is not about the profit, at least not 100%, if that was the case I would charge as much as someone would pay me for one. I really do enjoy building them, I like to create things that people think are "works of art" (for lack of a better word). I also think that the companies making these backgrounds are taking advantage of people with their outrageous prices though their backgrounds are amazing.

Thanks for your opinions and advise people! :thumb:


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## mightyevil

The background is already in the tank and I want to wait until next Thursday so all the silicone and Drylok has more than enough time to cure but I have a feeling I will not be able to wait that long to fill the tank with water. 

Lets hope I can hold my anxiety :lol:


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## mightyevil

Here is a picture of that, just for fun...


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## smichael

You have made me rethink about using concrete, and just using drylok instead. How many layers of foam did you use to make it so deep?


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## cjacob316

nice

yeah i had a mishap the other day and lost grip of my glass lid, id slid into the water and hit by bg. if there was cement it would have cracked. since it was just drylock, it made a linear dent, it's hidden by algae now though


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## mightyevil

smichael said:


> You have made me rethink about using concrete, and just using drylok instead. How many layers of foam did you use to make it so deep?


Yeah, I quit using cement after using Drylok. I used five 2" layers of styro to achieve that depth.



cjacob316 said:


> nice
> 
> yeah i had a mishap the other day and lost grip of my glass lid, id slid into the water and hit by bg. if there was cement it would have cracked. since it was just drylock, it made a linear dent, it's hidden by algae now though


When I was putting the background in yesterday one of the pieces fell and hit the floor hard, nothing happened to it, if it would have been cement I would have had to patch a good "fist size" chunk of cement and recolor it as well, it would have slowed me down enough.


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## cjacob316

yeah that would suck, even if you pierce the dry lock a little, styro is water proof so it won't be the worse thing, but cracked cement will spread and fall apart

you don't have pH issues with dry lock only, and significantly less curing time, i did my project and had it running in less than a week


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## mightyevil

Here is a picture with the lighting on it, I am trying to figure out where to put the lighting, towards the back or the front of the aquarium. What do you guys think?

The back, which creates great depth because it makes the background look deeper than it is?










Or the front, which makes the background stand out and show the detail I worked so hard to achieve?


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## cancichfan

I think your fish wou|d be |ost with the |ighting at the back. I agree it gives it depth, sort scary in a way. I |ike the front best.
Graham


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## Malawi_Junkie

I kind of like them in the back. water will help to distribute light more evenly. Maybe a happy medium in the middle to add depth but display more detail.
What type of bulbs are you using?


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## mightyevil

The lights are standard 15w AGA fluorescent bulbs.


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## Matthew Gabrielse

I would probably put it in the middle to achieve lighting somewhere between the two pictures.


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## zazz

things get interesting when you start to mix lights.. you could keep the backlit ones and introduce some lower level lights ..could even be leds to light up the foreground. Have them on seperate switches so you can Have dark and moody for late evening and early morning or full on showtank.


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## cjacob316

get a second, 48 inch strip light, use the higher watt and a higher K rating in the rear, lower watt lower k rating in the front

i dunno i'm just talking out my ass haha


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## mightyevil

I dont want to spend more money on the tank, I still need to get my 180 gallon reef up, I have lights, stand and ofcoarse tank so I really need my funds to go toward the reef as much as possible. I have to use what I have right now... Maybe I can buy some LEDs for the foregound but not sure, we'll see.


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## zazz

out of curiosity did you have some images of rock formations when you did your rocks or was it all play by ear.


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## mightyevil

Had a mental picture. 

It was all improvised with the BTN picture to inspire me...









This was the look I was going for but I figured that with the depth of a 55 gallon tank it is almost impossible to achieve it without drilling it to be able to use maximum space IMO. The color is also pretty difficult although not impossible but when I got the color that I got I liked it so I kept it.

If you see in the BTN picture, the farther part of the background has some rock formation that looks like mine, where the rocks in the bottom and top stick out furhter than the middle part. I liked that and I adopted it the best I could.


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## zazz

thanks.. interesting i am very impressed with the diy backgrounds coming out of this forum.. the bar is being raised.

what are the dims of that btn tank you posted??... looks huge ..must be four feet front to back at least?


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## mightyevil

I think that it was bound to happen, BTN and other companies created extremely nice backgrounds but at an insane price. Wheather they do it for profit or their production really costs that much to make them, it is too much money. It was only natural that we would try to DIY, some of us just do not 
settle for less and try to mimic the look that these company background's have.


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## zazz

that BTN background that you posted ..is that a mirror or is that really a deep cave??


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## mightyevil

It really is that deep...

Check out their site, there are more pictures of the same tank, different angles...

http://www.backtonature.se/interzoo2006.html


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## zazz

i didnt see in the thread what was the type of paint that you used.. for the highlights ect. .thanks

thanks for the link..now i can see it in scale with a person its a bit more down to earth.. but still amazing.


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## mightyevil

It is all done with Drylok and Quickcrete Cement Pigment.


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## zazz

..ill start small.. maybe a loose rock and work my way up to the big one.. :wink:


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## mightyevil

No problem! :thumb:

One thing that I have noticed is that, when applying color to a smaller piece of styro it looks different when applied to a bigger piece of styro. However, it does help aquire different techniques and colors, the whole texture and color process is very interesting!


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## cancichfan

I want to change my vote. If you can put some accent |ight in the front, then go big in the back and accent in the front. I was thinking in terms of a|| or nothing. Cou|d you set up something with |ED puck |ights on the exterior of the tank to cast just enough on the front to accent the fish? If you coud come up with some a|ternative to do something subt|e in the front, the back is definite|y more dramatic.

Either way sti|| awesome!!!


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## mightyevil

I also think the lights looks better in the back and I also am worried about not being able to see the fish in the tank. Using subtle lights in the front would fix the problem I think but I would have to build a canopy for that or rig something up...I don't know. I think I am gonna leave the lights in the back for now until I finish my other tanks, then I will make the lighting a bit more interesting.


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## cancichfan

I was thinking of the |itt|e |ED puck |ights that my kids have on the inside of their bunk beds. They just push to turn on, |ast forever and you cou|d stick them to the inside of the canopy (assuming you cou|d open the canopy to turn them on). IF they ever came unstuck, there isn't enough juice in them to do anything in the tank even if they fe|| in. Maybe a pain to turn on seperate|y though. 
Just a thought. 4 of them on the top wou|d give a good amount of top down accent |ight.
Graham


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## mightyevil

I see what you are talking about now, those are a good idea! I may try those


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## FishyOne

Do you find that you are losing too much space for fish in the aquarium while installing a DIY background? I love the look of thees but do not know if I want to loose the space.


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## mightyevil

Yes, I do find that a lot of swimming space is being sacrificed for this DIY background but I think it is definitely worth it. I am also installing a sump to replenish most of the water displacement though.

I also think that you can make a DIY background without sacrificing too much space. The background that I had before on this tank only took about 2.5" of the tanks depth and the fish had enough space to swim.

I had this tank for sale and it did not sell so I decided to make it a grow out tank. The tank being a grow out tank will not need to have all the swimming space possible since the fish will either be transferred to my 110 gallon, will be sold or given away, definitely not going to keep them in that tank.

I do want to keep Tropheus Moorii sometime in the future and I think this tank may be able to house about 6 of them, 1m/5f. But again, that would be in the future.


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## mightyevil

I finished my exterior overflow box yesterday, came out pretty nice IMO but I think I made it a bit too shallow, guess I will find out when I test it. I still need to drill a hole on the top of the durso pipe though.


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## cancichfan

FishyOne said:


> Do you find that you are losing too much space for fish in the aquarium while installing a DIY background? I love the look of thees but do not know if I want to loose the space.


I did a spray foam one (pictures to come soon) and I focused more depth of the "rock" on the top 1/2 of the background. I have noted that my mbuna seem to prefer the bottom 1/2 of the tank so I made that part thinner and extended the top 1/2 out more. Tried to preserve as much of the footprint on the bottom 1/2 as I couId. It's actua||y for my 29 G which is going to be a tang tank but I think it makes sense to put more of the depth on the top. Basica||y gave it more overhang (a|so he|ped to hide the intakes etc.)


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## cancichfan

mightyevil said:


> The background is already in the tank and I want to wait until next Thursday so all the silicone and Drylok has more than enough time to cure but I have a feeling I will not be able to wait that long to fill the tank with water.
> 
> Lets hope I can hold my anxiety :lol:


I know it says silicone on here and I know that there is a sticky about GE silicone in the DIY section...I've read it already a couple times but exactly what do you use to stick these in the tanks?
I picked up both GE Silicone 1 and Silicone II and both say Mildew Resistant on the back. On the sticky some say it isn't true, others that it is just marketing or a money grab to get you to buy higher priced product, others say that if it says Mildew Resistant, don't use it. It's getting too confusing. So, what do you use? Does it say MR on there anywhere and if so, does it matter?
Thanks
Graham


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## JDL

Wow that looks really good, can't wait too see it when your done.

Wish I had the skills, unfortunately I'm still saving to buy a 3D background


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## mightyevil

cancichfan said:


> mightyevil said:
> 
> 
> 
> The background is already in the tank and I want to wait until next Thursday so all the silicone and Drylok has more than enough time to cure but I have a feeling I will not be able to wait that long to fill the tank with water.
> 
> Lets hope I can hold my anxiety :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I know it says silicone on here and I know that there is a sticky about GE silicone in the DIY section...I've read it already a couple times but exactly what do you use to stick these in the tanks?
> I picked up both GE Silicone 1 and Silicone II and both say Mildew Resistant on the back. On the sticky some say it isn't true, others that it is just marketing or a money grab to get you to buy higher priced product, others say that if it says Mildew Resistant, don't use it. It's getting too confusing. So, what do you use? Does it say MR on there anywhere and if so, does it matter?
> Thanks
> Graham
Click to expand...

I've never had a problem with GE I Window and Door, I have even used the white one instead of clear, with no casualties and no problems. I think it says it is weather proof or they get away with saying it is mildew resistant because if applied well you can make something waterproof and you will have no mildew, not because the silicone itself has a mildew resistant chemical. Now, there are some silicone caulks that have mildew resistant chemicals but that is how GE I gets away with it. That is what I have concluded from my many trials, even tried mounting a background with all white GE I, had it up fr a few months with guppies and not problems, they bred and the fry that did not get eaten are still alive since.


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## mightyevil

JDL said:


> Wow that looks really good, can't wait too see it when your done.
> 
> Wish I had the skills, unfortunately I'm still saving to buy a 3D background


Thank you, I really need to find out how much they charge for shipping these things, once I do I will let everyone know how much I can charge for a Custom background. I will try to be as affordable as possible.


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## cancichfan

Thanks. 
After I posted this I found a store brand clear silicone that says "safe for aquariums on it" for $3 Can. So, I gobbed it on and stuck my BG in place. We'll see how it looks in a couple days when it cures. Basement smells like a pickle factory right now so I am sure I have the right stuff.

That's what I thought about the GE 1, that it should be OK but glad to hear it directly from someone who has used it. Like I said, the sticky is excellent but there is just so much there now that it gets confusing.


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## narhay

I used some GEII for a rock wall project recently. I had a few fish die off, almost all my shrimp and most of the plants started to fall apart. I had another aquarium with a GEII background and everything was fine there.


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## cjacob316

the "pickle" smell is the vinegar that is vaporizing out of the silicon as it cures, nothing abnormal or toxic about it


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## dacjr

Sorry to post a question on someone elses thread, but Mighty seems to be the BG king. Plus I thought I'd get more response from such a popular thread. Anyway, my question is...is there any harm in using ceramic tile as a base for a DIY background. I've not read anywhere of anyone using it. It might seem as if it defeats the whole DIY thing, but my plan is to use it as a back drop and then do something in front of it like a styro tree or something. I followed a link to the back to nature site and was really impressed with the Amazonian look. The only challenge would be hiding the joints in the tile, but I wasn't sure if there was any issues with using it.


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## mightyevil

I don't think there would be a problem as I remember one of the more experienced and sabby members said that his daughter would make rocks out of ceramic to put in the aquarium but I can't be positive.

I don't mind anybody asking questions related or unrelated in my thread, I actually welcome it since it is easier to follow and I may actually learn something. I hope someone can better answer your question in here.


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## mightyevil

Here is an update after such a long time!

I got all the plumbing done and everything is ready to go with the exception that I have to make some mods to the background. I realized that my water level will be a little higher than I wanted it to, the water is high enough to allow fish into my HOB intake sections and overflow so I need to add some window mesh to keep the fish out of those areas, once that is done, the fish will go in. There will be no need for cycling since my sump media will come from my 110 gallon.

Here are some pictures...

Here is the return flow at full speed, obviously siphon overflows are not as fast siphoning the water or I am doing something wrong. I will be adding a second siphon tube to help quicken the flow soon.










Here is the return flow after reducing the flow, not very fast at all...










Picture of the siphon overflow and the mods done to it (all DIY)...










Here is a picture of the plumbing and sump...










And finally an angled picture of the tank operating...










Didn't add the HOB filters because it would have been worthless to test with them on. Yeah, two HOB filters and a 10 gallon sump, kinda too much but who's judging, right?


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## cjacob316

there was a thread on here where someone used tile on the bottle of their tank, so i'm sure it will work for the walls, but why ceramic, and not slate?


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## reefwade

So how are you securing the background to the tank? Is it just wedged in well?

I have a 7'x30"x28"(tall) tank that I will most likely be working on and was thinking about this type of background. I had a friend do this for a reef tank and it worked well. But, my tank is acrylic so silicon will not work and I'm afraid of it floating up from the base.


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## cjacob316

silicone


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## reefwade

cjacob316 said:


> silicone


Grammar policing or an answer? There are reasons forums are neigh on useless.

If it is silicone, I will have to start getting creative. I could probably build in a slot at the base to hold real rocks, that would add some downward force. My tank also has a thick support rim (no bracing on it) that I might be able to wedge the background into.

Anyone tried using styro over time? Does it start to expand due to waterlogging? Does it crumble? Do the fish mess it up so that it has to be re-dyed or patched?


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## kitana8

The tank looks awesome. It strikes me that you didn't put that much silicone behind the background to anchor it to the glass, I thought you really had to put as much silicone as possible.


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## mightyevil

reefwade said:


> So how are you securing the background to the tank? Is it just wedged in well?
> 
> I have a 7'x30"x28"(tall) tank that I will most likely be working on and was thinking about this type of background. I had a friend do this for a reef tank and it worked well. But, my tank is acrylic so silicon will not work and I'm afraid of it floating up from the base.


As Jacob said, I used silicone to secure the background, it is the safest way. Silicone will work well, I made a background for an acrylic hexagon once and it was stuck on there pretty nicely. The background was not as thick as this one though, so you may not want to use too much styro unless you can wedge your background between the bottom panel and the tank's rim if it has one, the sand will also help keep the background in place. If this is the case then you will be okay using silicone. If your background is not going to be too thick you will also be okay. Remember to use A LOT of silicone for it, many people have had bad experiences using little silicone.

Here is the tank I am talking about...


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## mightyevil

reefwade said:


> cjacob316 said:
> 
> 
> 
> silicone
> 
> 
> 
> Grammar policing or an answer? There are reasons forums are neigh on useless.
> 
> If it is silicone, I will have to start getting creative. I could probably build in a slot at the base to hold real rocks, that would add some downward force. My tank also has a thick support rim (no bracing on it) that I might be able to wedge the background into.
> 
> Anyone tried using styro over time? Does it start to expand due to waterlogging? Does it crumble? Do the fish mess it up so that it has to be re-dyed or patched?
Click to expand...

  He was answering.

I don't think you will need to weigh it down with real rocks, wedging it will work well along with the silicone and substrate.

I have made many backgrounds before but I have never had them too long, the longest was almost two years and this background replaced it. That background was done with cement and when maintaining the tank I managed to chip and break pieces of it somehow. These drylok backgrounds are already lasting longer that the cement ones I have made because the drylok is more forgiving and flexible, cement is not. I re patched the cement ones before but again, drylok seems to be lasting longer.


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## reefwade

Awesome, thanks for the reply. I won't use silicone on the tank as it might be used for another purpose down the road and would prefer to avoid it as it permanently mars the surface (it can be polished out, but its a huge amount of work). I am thinking that I can jam it in tightly by making wedges on the topmost portion of the background piece that will compress once fully pressed into the slot in the tank as the rims are 4" wide.

I also recall a friend using the spray polyurethane (the kind that fills gaps for winterizing a house) to make the initial structure. I will have to look for that information... it is an alternative to using sheets of styro (it has smaller cellular structures, but I believe it takes a long while to off-gas and become nontoxic).

Thanks for documenting your progress, awesome thread!


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## mightyevil

kitana8 said:


> The tank looks awesome. It strikes me that you didn't put that much silicone behind the background to anchor it to the glass, I thought you really had to put as much silicone as possible.


  You do!

Only reason why I did not go crazy with the silicone is because I ran out when I was putting it on the background. I usually cover the back of the background first and then stick it on the aquarium, I though I had another silicone tube and I didn't so I could not run to the store and grab some because the silicone that was laid out would have began to dry and that would have been bad. I actually used some white silicone on this one and barely was able to cover enough of it to be safe, I hope! :lol: You are making me nervous, I hope I used enough...Time will tell :roll:


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## cjacob316

reefwade said:


> cjacob316 said:
> 
> 
> 
> silicone
> 
> 
> 
> Grammar policing or an answer? There are reasons forums are neigh on useless.
> 
> If it is silicone, I will have to start getting creative. I could probably build in a slot at the base to hold real rocks, that would add some downward force. My tank also has a thick support rim (no bracing on it) that I might be able to wedge the background into.
> 
> Anyone tried using styro over time? Does it start to expand due to waterlogging? Does it crumble? Do the fish mess it up so that it has to be re-dyed or patched?
Click to expand...

ha didn't even realize you mispelled it, i honestly only read the first part and answered the question, then i read the rest, realized my answer probably didn't help much, but it's how us glass users do it


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## mightyevil

reefwade said:


> Awesome, thanks for the reply. I won't use silicone on the tank as it might be used for another purpose down the road and would prefer to avoid it as it permanently mars the surface (it can be polished out, but its a huge amount of work). I am thinking that I can jam it in tightly by making wedges on the topmost portion of the background piece that will compress once fully pressed into the slot in the tank as the rims are 4" wide.
> 
> I also recall a friend using the spray polyurethane (the kind that fills gaps for winterizing a house) to make the initial structure. I will have to look for that information... it is an alternative to using sheets of styro (it has smaller cellular structures, but I believe it takes a long while to off-gas and become nontoxic).
> 
> Thanks for documenting your progress, awesome thread!


Thanks!

I would recommend to use egg crate or some type of material to keep the background against the back from the bottom as well if you are not going to use silicone. The problem I see is that styro or spray on foam is extremely buoyant and often underestimated, it can start lifting from the bottom first and little by little until it pushes through the substrate and rockets out the top. Hence the recommendation for the egg crate, this will prevent the bottom of the background to push forward and up. Just something to think about :thumb:

The spray on foam is called "Great Stuff" or "Pond Foam". I recently read on a thread that it can be shaped by using a plastic bag or plastic cloth on it and sculpt it as it dries, good tip. Now there are also industrial foam spraying guns, that would cut the work by like 90% :lol:


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## mightyevil

Here are a couple FTS with water and sand... the water did help distribute the light through the tank.


















Here are a couple of pictures to show I added a second siphon but I think that the flow is the same...


















I think that the problem is the external overflow box, I think that I should have made it a little deeper or my Durso pipe a little shorter but I think I will leave it like that, too lazy to mess with it, I will probably mess with it down the road sometime.


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## kriskm

Oh man, that looks amazing with the water and sand. Fish will just love all that structure. You're getting pretty dang good at this.


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## mightyevil

Thank you *kriskm*

I need to keep my eyes open for some medium size black or dark brown round rocks, I think they would compliment the background nicely.


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## cancichfan

I did a spray foam background and there is a thread on here with my results. Look for SprayFoam background in the DIY section.

I didn't have much luck with the bag method. Also, I don't know if I would do another spray foam one. The stuff keeps expanding for a very long time. I'd use Pond Foam next time too because it is darker in colour. You can see some spots on mine where the foam expanded after I thought it was done and painted it. But, I think the algae will finish that off.

I am happy with my result but I'd go with styrofoam first and use the spray foam to fill in as Mighty mentions he's done in the past.
Still, take a look. I'd love to hear what you think as it's my first attempt.


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## cjacob316

this is what i want my 90 to look like when i redo it, and instead of hiding my intakes behind the styro, i'm just going to leave an empty space in the very corners for them that way the rocks on the sides hide them. i think this would improve filtration a bit, but obviously only really doable with canisters


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## mightyevil

And if you are confident about drilling it you can incorporate the intake into the background so it looks even sharper.


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## Malawi_Junkie

:thumb: Looks great, job well done!


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## R-DUB

Looks fantastic! Great job. Do you feel you lose area due to the fact that the BG is so thick? Also using styro against the side walls of the tank do these tanks get viewed from all directions? What about trying to drylok the glass side of the BG then silicone that into place? Just a thought - R-DUB


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## mightyevil

*Malawi_Junkie*
Thank you!

*R-DUB*
Yes, there is lots of space being sacrificed but I think it is worth it. This is a grow out tank so the space I lost is not too important. The tank my be viewed from the left side and the front because it is in a corner. The glass sides of the background are Dryloked but don't have any silicone so it doesn't look ugly.

I will try to take a picture later so you can see.


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## R-DUB

Thank you. I always liked the corner effect but did not want to see the backside of the styro. I like the way it gives the illusion of a real natural enviromnet.


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## zorans83

Great looking background.Is that picture really made with flash?It shows a great looking paintjob.When I use flash on my backgrounds they always look blur an shadeless.Great job


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## mightyevil

R-DUB said:


> Thank you. I always liked the corner effect but did not want to see the backside of the styro. I like the way it gives the illusion of a real natural enviromnet.


Here is the picture I promised you, not very clear but enough to prove the point. Doesn't look very hot but at least it is not white styro and the side of the tank does not have to be painted, oh and no silicone :thumb: .


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## mightyevil

zorans83 said:


> Great looking background.Is that picture really made with flash?It shows a great looking paintjob.When I use flash on my backgrounds they always look blur an shadeless.Great job


Thank you!

No, this picture was taken with no flash. The aquarium lights are the only lights that are on and the pictures were taken in the dark.


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## mightyevil

Here are my 26 Acei juvies about 1" with 3 adult guppies, six guppy fry and 1 juvi Pearlmutt about 2".

Sorry for the picture quality, it sucks!


























I bought a 50 pound bag of X-large River Rock for $7, which is really not large at all, I will be washing it today and putting it in to see how it looks, it is not exactly what I was looking for but the ones I wanted were very expensive, $5 for 4 rocks and I found a bag at Lowes of like 20 pounds for almost $30 so I went the cheap way.


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## mightyevil

Okay, so I washed the rocks and picked out the biggest ones I could find in the bag. The wifey says that there are way too many rocks in the tank...what do you guys think? Too many?










I also tried taking a picture of it with the moonlight on but the camera doesn't catch the very low levels of light so you can't really see much but here is the a picture anyway...


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## zorans83

Wow.How many inches is this tank back to front.You've done an amazing job capturing the depth.I thought it's a much deeper /larger tank till I saw the corner picture.All of the above pictures are different.U played with the light ?Those rocks are not looking good enough for that background.Too many and not big enough according to me.And yes...those are the luckiest acei on this planet!


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## mightyevil

Thanks!

Back to front is 12-13". I did play with the light in earlier posts but I also used to time of day. Some pictures were taken at night with all lights off except the tank lights and some were taken during the day.

I am definitely going to play with the rocks and try to make it look better. I will keep my eye out for larger rocks, I too think that they are too small.

Again thanks! :thumb:


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## cancichfan

zorans83 said:


> Those rocks are not looking good enough for that background.Too many and not big enough according to me.


I agree and also not really the right colour. I'd search out gray to match the background, just as if they'd broken off and fallen into the water naturally. Too bad they are so heavy. After centuries of glaciation, we're swimming in rocks up here. I'd mail you some. Don't know how many tonnes I've picked up out of the fields over the years but I do know I'll never buy one!


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## R-DUB

Thanks for the side pic. Do you have a problem cleaning algae or debris from any small crevices in that area?


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## mightyevil

*cancichfan*

I just moved the rocks around, these are the largest rocks I found that would look best in the tank, again, I will have to keep my eyes open for bigger ones. I only spent about $7 for these so I don't mind throwing them out when or if I find some bigger ones. Mailing me some would be great but I'm sure the shipping would just kill me  .

*R-DUB*

The background is very nice and tight on the sides so not much debris will get in there, not worried about it. Algae in the other hand may be very difficult to get rid of but I don't have any algae growing yet. I don't think I will do much about the algae when it grows in, I really don't think I am going to have a choice since it is so tight there, hopefully no algae grows there since there is not much water movement there but I can be wrong.


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## mightyevil

*cancichfan*

I just moved the rocks around, these are the largest rocks I found that would look best in the tank, again, I will have to keep my eyes open for bigger ones. I only spent about $7 for these so I don't mind throwing them out when or if I find some bigger ones. Mailing me some would be great but I'm sure the shipping would just kill me  .

*R-DUB*

The background is very nice and tight on the sides so not much debris will get in there, not worried about it. Algae in the other hand may be very difficult to get rid of but I don't have any algae growing yet. I don't think I will do much about the algae when it grows in, I really don't think I am going to have a choice since it is so tight there, hopefully no algae grows there since there is not much water movement there but I can be wrong.


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## ksk_che_che

Little help here, excatly what drylok did you use?
My local Lowes has a wide variety and colors. 
Is it the Latex-based masonry, the extreme masonry, or the floor paint?


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## mightyevil

It is the Latex-Based Masonry and then I used Charcoal and Buff "Quickcrete Pigment" to add color to the Drylok. You can find the Quickcrete Pigment there at Lowes where all the cement stuff is.


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## cjacob316

i'm still having trouble getting decent shapes cut into styro, do you start with like 3 pieces siliconed together, so you have a 6 inch thick rectangular block and just start carving into it, or do you start with smaller pieces and carve them into shapes?


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## mightyevil

Sorry, I thought I had answered this...

Same answer in your mailbox but for the sake of this record, here it is...

I used 5 pieces siliconed together, the pieces were 2" thick so I had a block that was 48" wide, 18" high and 10" thick. Once I had the big block all bonded together I took my knife to it. Once my basic shapes were done I lightly went over it with the torch just to get a smoother finish.


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## cjacob316

yeah i resent it in our pm because i wasn't sure if you had checked this thread recently, sorry man


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## Floridagirl

MightyEvil,

Okay. You've inspired me. I have a 5 ft. 100 gallon that I need a background for. I've read these 9 pages a few times, so forgive me if you answered this previously. I saw the foam brand, from Lowes.
I know it's Latex based Masonry Drylok with Quickcrete cement pigment. And then, Ge Silicone 1, without mildew resistance.

So, a few questions, if you don't mind. I carve, I then Drylok. How many coats of dryock would you recommend, and how much time between coats. Then, how much time for drying before siliconing? And then, how long to cure before adding water and/or fish. Thanks for all the posting and explanations. You are truly the Drylok Guru!


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## mightyevil

Well, thank you Florida girl.

I would recommend two thick coats and a third for details, the first one should be black, as black as you can get it. The second coat should be the base color of your background, for this one I used black and the third coat, again, it will be your detail coat. I would let it dry two days and then silicone and a week for the silicone to fully cure and by the time the silicone cures, the Drylok will be ready for water. So once you silicone the background into your aquarium it will take about 7 days to fully cure and it is ready for water.


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## kitana8

Have you ever tried this technique for adding color? I found it interesting for those like me with no artistic talents!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ze_s6xK ... re=channel


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## mightyevil

It does seem interesting and I find it vaguely similar but similar nonetheless to the way I apply color to cement with an additional step of brushing the colors to blend them together. Good info :thumb:


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## TNFISHFAN

This background will be one of my "reference" pics when attempting my first BG


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## mightyevil

Thanks!


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## ksk_che_che

kitana8 said:


> Have you ever tried this technique for adding color? I found it interesting for those like me with no artistic talents!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ze_s6xK ... re=channel


That video was taken over 6 years ago


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## SuperBro

Looks really good, Mighty. Great, natural coloration.

Question - did you put silicone around the perimeter of the entire BG to ensure no water (or fry) seep behind the styro? I'm about to start mine and not sure if I need to worry about water getting back there and possibly compromising the silicone's adhesion over time.


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## ksk_che_che

Siicone is waterproof, just let it cure long enough before adding water.


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## mightyevil

SuperBro said:


> Looks really good, Mighty. Great, natural coloration.
> 
> Question - did you put silicone around the perimeter of the entire BG to ensure no water (or fry) seep behind the styro? I'm about to start mine and not sure if I need to worry about water getting back there and possibly compromising the silicone's adhesion over time.


I did not use any for the perimeter but I did use some in between modules, a thick bead of silicone to prevent fish from getting in there. And I was going to but my background fit very snugly in the tank so there was no need to silicone the perimeter and I would recommend you to do so if your background does not fit as tight as mine, it would save you a ton of headaches.


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## SuperBro

So there's no need to worry about water getting behind the BG?


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## mightyevil

SuperBro said:


> So there's no need to worry about water getting behind the BG?


Not really, with every background I have built it seems impossible to prevent water seeping into the back. I have never had any problems with that, in this background I actually have a couple compartments where I have stagnant water but fish are not able to get into them so I am really not worried about it. I would recommend to try and seal everything as much as possible but there is a chance that you will get water behind the background and again, don't worry too much about it.


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## SuperBro

Perfect...thanks.


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## Scorpio

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Dude! You have now convinced me to use drylock!


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## mightyevil

Thanks!

Yeah, I have used both cement and Drylok and I have to say, Drylok is superior IMHO.


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## knotty dreadlocks

your tank looks great. where did you get the material for your overflow and how much clearance do you have in the back of your tank.


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## mightyevil

Thank you!

I got the material from Lowe's, Home Depot carries lexan acrylic too, they sell them in 8x10" sheets very cheap. I have about a foot of clearance from my window to the back of the tank but that was just personnal preference, I could have done 6" or so.


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## Munchie1010

i picked up some acei from chris (mightyevil) last week and saw this tank, and its awesome, great job on the tank, im still figuring out how im gonna put the bg in my 55 lol, any suggestions chris?


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## mightyevil

Thanks Mark!

I would cut it into four pieces just to be sure. I hope the background fits perfectly, I don't remember measuring it but I think it is exactly 4 feet long. Apply the silicone on the background first, not the glass. Try to fit it in first without the silicone so you get an idea of what pieces need to go in first and which last. Here is how I would cut it, silicone and order I would put it in...


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## mightyevil

Getting out of the hobby for a while, I have seem to be neglecting my tanks lately due to work and other hobbies. PM me or email me at [email protected] for a price on this tank! Pick up only and cash only please. I will include all the hardware for the tank for one low price and fish also if wanted, contact me!

Located in Pico Rivera California 90660


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## mightyevil

STILL UP FOR SALE!


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