# About to call it Quits...so frustrated



## bmwyatt (Oct 21, 2010)

We are just overwhelmed and extremely frustrated.

We have reached exactly a week today with our Cichlids. As of yesterday, we finally leveled off with our Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 10. Our ammonia never went above .25ppm. Our pH stays at 8.2. We hadn't done a water change in about 4 days, so we did about 50% last night.

Our fish are NOT acting normal. They hover most of the time. We have 3 crimsons that swim the front of the tank back and forth...they are the most active. The rest of our fish just hover above the substrate and sometimes are laying on the substrate while in their caves. We have recently added a couple live plants as of Monday. We have noticed a few of our fish with stringy white poop, and I've heard so many different things of what that could mean...could definitely use some advice please  I've heard that it could be b/c they may have eaten some of the plants, and/or that it could be an infection? Most of the fish will eat but not like when we first received them.

As of this past Sunday, we had a huge Algae explosion and it's now covering most of our concrete background and holey rock. It look like a mixture of green and brown algae --- is the brown algae problematic? We have started seeing our water more cloudy than normal as well.

Our Acei have slowly started losing their color and looking sick. We lost 2 Cobues today and are about to lose a small catfish.

We also had 2 fish showing signs of Ick this past Saturday, and we treated for a few days with an organic solution called Ick Attack. We don't have any fish with spots any more as of 2 days ago. We haven't treated since Monday...could they still have the parasite? We had someone from a LFS tell us to stop treating once the spots were gone. Grrr....

We are now wondering if we have some type of internal infection? parasite? fungus?

The fish just seem lethargic and aren't active much at all. We have our temperature set around 76 degrees.

We would greatly appreciate any help and advice.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Some recommended reading regarding Ick: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php and here's a link to more health related articles... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php
Brown or diatom algae is not harmful and usually shows up in newly set up tanks.
I don't mean to sound condescending but it's always good to not have to depend on your LFS for advice, read, read, read.
Good luck!


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

1. The algae and plants are no problem for the fish. They are what they eat in their natural environment. If they eat them, it will be good for the fish - but maybe not so good for the plants. 

2. One problem could be that you brought ammonia to zero only yesterday, while you had the fish for a week. Ammonia is really bad for fish, and they should be introduced to a tank only after ammonia reads zero. Fish that suffered from ammonia damage might take a few days to die - or pull through. Only time will tell, and in the meantime you can only wait and see.

3. When fish are sick feed sparingly or better yet - don't feed them until they look better. Sick fish often won't eat anyhow, and uneaten food will only foul the water. I know this advice is counter-intuitive, especially for newcomers who tend to compare the fish to a sick person who can be restored to health with chicken-noodle-soup. Whenever I mention a sick fish to my wife, her fish reaction is: "Give it some good food!" But fish are not people :wink:

4. Where did you get the fish? If they are mixed mbuna from a chain store that you are only calling cobues and so on, because they look like that, those fish might have been sick when you bought them. The last time I bought fish from a chain store I decided to put them in quarantine for 10 days. After 3 days I could end the project, because they had all gone belly up. To be frank, I have given up on buying from chain stores, because I can never keep the fish alive! Consider buying from a reputable store that specializes in cichlids and has good stock. Or find a club near you and hook up with local breeders for find top quality fish at rock bottom prices.

5. If you really think the fish have ick or another disease, and you are determined to safe them, post in Illness, Health & Nutrition, preferably with photos.

Best of luck!


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

fmueller said:


> One problem could be that you brought ammonia to zero only yesterday, while you had the fish for a week. Ammonia is really bad for fish, and they should be introduced to a tank only after ammonia reads zero!


This is the first thing that came to my mind as well. If the fish don't die, they could very well have suffered internal damage.


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## Triton99 (Oct 27, 2010)

I also have a few questions:

1. What chemicals do you add to your water: a) chlorine removers b) buffers c) salt d) bottled bacteria e) anything 
2. What decorations and substrates in the tank?
3. How much are you feeding and what are you feeding?
4. Filtration type? 
5. Water source?

Just trying to get more info to help you out some. :thumb:

Hang in there; we have all had fish issues at one time or another. :fish:


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

Introducing plants could introduce other stuff (parasites), I believe. Depends on the store - I've seen a few LFS that keep fish in with their plants.

Better to only introduce new stuff if your tank is stable.

With Ich, I believe you're supposed to go the full treatment regardless of seeing anything. I've had Ich in my 75 gallon tank with turtles, gourami and silver dollars (the only ones that show any signs of having it) and successfully resolved twice.


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## bmwyatt (Oct 21, 2010)

Triton99 said:


> I also have a few questions:
> 
> 1. What chemicals do you add to your water: a) chlorine removers b) buffers c) salt d) bottled bacteria e) anything
> *PRIME, SALT, AND MICROLIFT SPECIAL BLEND BACTERIA*
> ...


Most of our fish prefer flakes, but we bought a bunch of pellets b/c that is what they were fed before we got them.

Thanks in advance for any help


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

What size tank?


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## bmwyatt (Oct 21, 2010)

Unfortunately we lost at least 3 fish today...and 2 of my ACEI are missing, so once my husband gets home, we'll find the other 2 

I treated today for parasites. I treated with API GENERAL CURE and I fed them this morning as well, except I fed them JUNGLE Anti-Parasite Fish Food. They did okay, but not all of them ate. They seem a bit more active this evening; however, I still have a couple fish pooping the white stringy stuff. I'm assuming they'll have to rid themselves of the parasite, so hopefully that's a good thing?

I guess it's a waiting game, but it's so annoying and frustrating to keep losing fish.


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## bmwyatt (Oct 21, 2010)

Glaneon said:


> What size tank?


 * 65 gallon*


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## Triton99 (Oct 27, 2010)

bmwyatt said:


> Triton99 said:
> 
> 
> > I also have a few questions:
> ...


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## bmwyatt (Oct 21, 2010)

Triton99 said:


> bmwyatt said:
> 
> 
> > Triton99 said:
> ...


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## Triton99 (Oct 27, 2010)

I also have co-op water in Texas and high ph like you. The TDS was also high (did not know it at the time) and I added salt which made the TDS very high and my fish did the same thing yours are doing. I started adding 50 percent RO water with my changes (no salt) and everything was fine after that.

Not sure if this is your problem your fish could have a disease but I would get a TDS meter and check it and I would stop adding the salt.

What area of Texas are you in?


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## bmwyatt (Oct 21, 2010)

Triton99 said:


> I also have co-op water in Texas and high ph like you. The TDS was also high (did not know it at the time) and I added salt which made the TDS very high and my fish did the same thing yours are doing. I started adding 50 percent RO water with my changes (no salt) and everything was fine after that.
> 
> Not sure if this is your problem your fish could have a disease but I would get a TDS meter and check it and I would stop adding the salt.
> 
> What are of Texas are you in?


 We are just South of Austin.


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## Triton99 (Oct 27, 2010)

I forgot to mention, if you do make changes (less salt, no salt, adding ro water) do it gradually over several days to a week.

If you need a TDS meter you can check Lowe's, Home Depot and I think someone said Walgreens has them by the water filters.


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## magic_cichlid (Jun 30, 2003)

Is this the tank that was talked about last week that had not been cycled but had fish on the way? Sorry, I can't find that other post. If it is that tank, you probably had a mini cycle that affected your fish.


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## bmwyatt (Oct 21, 2010)

Yes, this is the tank from the post earlier last week 

So, a mini cycle?

*** We have seen improvement since treating yesterday; however, we lost 2 of the red empress that we thought we were going to lose this morning. They were always just hovering on the rocks and not eating.

I now see my Demasoni with an eye that is started to cloud in the middle. I'm just at a loss. It was so much easier to keep a Salt water tank....grrr... I'm still treating but I'm not treating again until tomorrow.

Our Nitrates are about 10ppm as of last night.


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## bmwyatt (Oct 21, 2010)

Ok...so now I'm wondering how often I should do a water change?

I've read so much about water changes, that I'm not sure what is a "right" amount.

Does it shock fish b/c I've heard that too?


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

Once a tank is cycled:
water change to keep nitrates down to 20-40ppm
only you can determine how often and how much.

yes, it can shock them - but only if you don't regulate the incoming water temp & pH,
make sure there's no chlorine/chloramines in the water.

If there's a significant difference in hardness and alkalinity, make adjustments for that at the same time you're adding water.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

bmwyatt said:


> It was so much easier to keep a Salt water tank....grrr....


If you add fish before the tank is ready - then you are definitely facing an uphill battle and should expect casualties. Sorry mate.

I know it sucks to lose fish.


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## magic_cichlid (Jun 30, 2003)

Sometimes a mini cycle happens which can cause permanent damage to the fish. That's probably why your levels are reading well but your fish are dieing. After this first burst of deaths your tank should calm down and you probably won't have a problem again. Cichlids are pretty forgiving once you have the bacteria colonies established.


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## magic_cichlid (Jun 30, 2003)

Any update? How are things?


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## bmwyatt (Oct 21, 2010)

magic_cichlid said:


> Any update? How are things?


I added a post this morning about feeding BioWheels.

We did end up losing another 5 or so fish after our slight "mini cycle." 

This past weekend, we purchased a 125 gallon, and we are going to refinish the canopy and base as well as another 3d background; however, we got 2 very seasoned Emperor 400s from this professional hobbyist, and we're wondering what is best to do with them. Should we feed them straight ammonia since we aren't going to need them until the project is finished or should we add them to our existing tank?

It's been 2 days without any casualties, so I'm assuming we're past the hardest part. We did lose about 50% of our fish.

I think we have a bully (Red Empress) that is picking at the Mbunas, so we're going to quarantine him today.


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## LoRyder (Sep 15, 2010)

How are things going? Haven't heard anything. Guess things are better?


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## bmwyatt (Oct 21, 2010)

Well, everything seems to be better now that we've cycled.

I think the only thing we're struggling with now is malawi bloat  We lost 3, even though we quarantined them and treated.

I have another Rusty that has stopped eating and is bloated with stringy white Poop....grrr....so frustrating!


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## LoRyder (Sep 15, 2010)

Hang in there. We all have or will go threw this. How's the other project going.


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