# My Cichlids are always at the top of the tank



## stevedonini

Hi,

I have a question, why are my cichlids always at the top of the tank as if they are breathing air??


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## Fogelhund

Not enough oxygen in the water, or toxic water.

Do a 50% water change, and add in a powerhead with the flow disturbing the surface vigourously.


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## stevedonini

Thanks Fogelhund.

I'm new at all this so forgive me but what is "a powerhead with the flow disturbing the surface vigourously".


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## Fogelhund

Any pet store will carry several brands of Power Heads.

Here is an example of one.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/reviews/vi ... php?id=258

They are basically just a pump that moves a great deal of water. You want the water flow, aimed at the surface, it should make the water boil, or move around at the surface to be most effective.


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## stevedonini

Fogelhund,

Would a air pump do temporarily until I purchase a Power Head?


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## Heyguy74

Just make sure to match water parameters for the water change. Match ph and temp.


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## stevedonini

Hi HeyGuy,

Hope all is well.

Not sure I understand your answer. Would you be able to clarify and again I do apologize but I'm relatively new at all this. Also, would a regular air pump do for now until I purchase a Powerheads?


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## chapman76

I only use air pumps aka air stones. Powerheads would work also. I added an air stone to a 55g hex that was having this problem and I haven't had a problem in the 6 years since.


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## dittobaker

Basically, anything that keeps the surface of the water disturbed ("boiling") will help provide oxygen to your water. Power heads work nicely. So do "Hang-on-the-back" type filters. Air stones help to some extent, but not as much as you would think.

Also, make sure your temperature is in the acceptable range. High water temperatures will also cause them to come to the surface.


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## stevedonini

The temperature is from 77 to 79


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## cichlidaholic

What size tank is this?

How many gallons are running through your filtration per hour?


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## stevedonini

I have a 42 gallon tank and I'm not sure how many gallons are running through my filter. I will verify tonight and get back to you.

Would not having enough oxygen explain the reason why on the Weekend I had purchased new fish and they both died. My PH is about 7.8 to 8.0 and I did Ihave a bit of ammonia of .3. I did a water change of 25% and added some cycle and added some waste control.


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## cichlidaholic

What is the stocklist on the tank?

What is the footprint of the tank?

Fish will also hover at the top of the tank if intense aggression is involved. No amount of oxygen will solve the problem if that is what is going on.


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## stevedonini

I have the following: 2 maingano, 1 yellow lab,1 auratus and 1 red zebra and the other unknown. I'm new at all this so I'm not sure I understand your second question "What is the footprint of the tank?"

In the past, the cichlids were swimming at the bottom and digging holes.


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## cichlidaholic

The footprint of the tank means the dimensions of the floor space you have to offer these fish.

Mbuna are highly aggressive and very territorial, and the aggression will increase as they mature.

Do you notice one of these fish staying near the bottom of the tank while the others stay at the top of the water line, or are they all up there?

I would not attempt to keep an auratus, maingano, or red zebra in less than a 4 foot long tank, so your stocking choices may be contributing to your problems. It's also important to try to identify the unknown guy. You can post a pic in the unidentified section for help.


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## stevedonini

Hey cichlidaholic,

Thanks for all your help.

I will measure the tank tonight and post the unknown cichlids.


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## cichlidaholic

Good luck!

Don't rule out the oxygen issue, either! We know your tank is likely too small for some of the species you have, but that might not be the only thing you have going on!

Are any of the fish staying at the bottom of the tank, guarding a territory?


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## stevedonini

No, all of them are at the top of the tank and they look like they are trying to breath.

What fish do you recommend for my 42 gal tank?


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## cichlidaholic

Any of the dwarf mbuna would be suitable...Ps. demasoni, Ps. saulosi, almost any of the Cynotilapia afra variants...

Yellow labs will also work.

I would go with single species for this tank size.


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## stevedonini

Hey cichlidaholic,

On Monday night I had installed a air filter that I had and last night all the cichlids were back to normal. Swimming all over the tank and digging holes again so I think my problem was a lack of oxgen. Tonight I will try to post some pictures so we can try and ID the rest of my cichlids.

Thank you everyone for all your imput because it really helped me.


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## cichlidaholic

That's good news, but with those species, as they mature, you can still expect some severe aggression problems in that sized tank, so I would still consider restocking it.


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## stevedonini




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## stevedonini

Having problem posting the images. I followed the instructions but still not able to post.


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## chapman76

The little bits at the end are what's messing it up.

If you look at the page with all of the thumbnails that you uploaded, there is a line where it even has the image


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## Heyguy74

stevedonini said:


> Hi HeyGuy,
> 
> Hope all is well.
> 
> Not sure I understand your answer. Would you be able to clarify and again I do apologize but I'm relatively new at all this. Also, would a regular air pump do for now until I purchase a Powerheads?


I was responding to the 50% water change. If you do a large water change and you usually dont ,your fish could be shocked by the change in water conditions. If you match the pH and temp of the new water with the tank water you wont have any problems. My concern was if your ph was 6.5 in the tank and the tap water ph was let say 8.0, you could shock the fish with such a big change in the pH. I hope I explained this ok for you.


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## cichlidaholic

From the pic, they all still appear to be in the upper portions of the tank???

Is this right? Was this pic made after you added the aerator?


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## stevedonini




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## stevedonini

The reason why they are at the top is because they are camera shy. Sorry if I'm posting so many pictures but I'm still new at posting pictures. Please help to identify my cichlids.


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## stevedonini

stevedonini said:


>


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## chapman76

The yellow w/ the purple sides is a rusty. I forget the latin. Begins with an I.

The orange one is Metriaclima estherae aka red zebra.

The black w/ the white stripes is a male Melanochromis auratus aka devil fish (j/k, sorta).

The one above the auratus looks like a Victorian of some kind. Not sure which. Would need more pictures.

The other one facing head on in the picture could be any one of the many blue mbuna. We'd need another picture of that one profile.

The little yellow one in the bottom right side of the picture is a Labidochromis caeruleus aka yellow lab.


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## stevedonini

Thanks.

I've attached other pictures. The footprint of the tank is 3 feet in length and 17 inches in width.









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## cichlidaholic

Your tank is too small for anything other than the Yellow lab and the Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty).

I agree with chapman76's ids!

The blue one with horizontal stripes is a Melanochromis...Hard to say if it is a cyaneorhabdos or johanni, or even a cross between the two.

All of your fish that are identified (except for the two I named above) need at least a 4 foot tank. These guys are very territorial, and once they all start to mature, they will tear a 3 foot tank apart. Unfortunately, the aggression level can not only cause instant deaths, it can also cause alot of health issues.

If you don't have access to a larger tank, I would get rid of everything except the Yellow lab and Rusty, and buy a few more of each of those species, perhaps 4 of each.


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## Dewdrop

1. The yellowish brown one with the two black stripes with a white stripe in the middle running the length of the fish (horizontally) is either a Melanochromis auratus or chipokae probably auratus though. Appears to be a male. Can get real mean and I wouldn't attempt to keep it in a tank this small.

2. The blue and black fish with the stripes also running horizontally appears to be a Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos (maingano). They are a pretty mellow fish for a Melanochromis.

3. The orange fish is most likely a Metriaclima estherae (red zebra). They are the boss of the tank most times :lol: .

4. The blue and black fish with the vertical stripes might be a Pseudotropheus demasoni (with to many stripes?) or elongatus...I'm really not sure so can't say how it will or should act.

5. The purple and yellowish brown fish in the top pic with the red zebra is a real nice looking Iodotropheus sperengerae (rusty) I'd love to have some :thumb: . A pretty mellow fish.

6. The one with the red on top and yellow on the bottom is a fish from lake Victoria...doesn't look right for Astatotilapia latifasciata (the only vic I have) but maybe a sp.44 or thick skin or flameback? Someone that knows vics better might help. I think it will be fine with the mbuna though.

7. The little yellow one with the black stripe on the top fin (I think I see one in the pic) is a Labidochromis caeruleus (electric yellow lab). The most mellow of all mbuna.


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## stevedonini

Thank you for everyone`s feedback.

Would the pet shop accept the fish and would I also be able to keep the maingano, the blue and black fish with the vertical stripes that might be a Pseudotropheus demasoni (with to many stripes?) or elongatus


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## cichlidaholic

cichlidaholic said:


> Your tank is too small for anything other than the Yellow lab and the Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty).


I wouldn't try keeping the others. You don't have enough floor space to be divided up as territories between these highly aggressive fish. If you want to keep mbuna in a 3 ft tank, you'll either have to go with the more passive mbuna species (as I suggested above) or go with a group of dwarf mbuna, like Ps. demasoni. You'll need 10-12 of them, and you'll still need to remove everything else, but might get away with keeping a trio of Yellow labs in with the demasoni.

You have choices for long term success, you're just very limited by the tank size. :thumb:


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## stevedonini

Cichlidaholic thanks again for all your help.

One last question, once I remove some of the more aggressive cichlids. I'm thinking of purchasing either 2 or 3 yellow labs so can I mix more males or it's not recoomended. The reason I'm asking is everything I go to the pet shop, I always ask for male and female and the response I always get is that the cichlids are to young to tell the difference between a male and a female??


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## cichlidaholic

Well, they are telling you the truth, because it's very difficult to sex young cichlids, and impossible to sex adult yellow labs unless you are very good at venting. (I am not...If they hold they are females, if they don't, they're probably males or subdominant females that never get the chance to breed.)

For your size tank, I wouldn't want alot of males - unless you have alot of females to balance things out. For every male, I would want 3 females. Males are more territorial than females are, so basically, once you get rid of the overly aggressive ones, just pick up some more small yellow labs...Let them grow up together and see how they get along once they are sexually mature. If it's necessary to remove one, they will let you know!

Malawi cichlids aren't pairing fish, which you may have been told earlier in the thread, I just don't have time to read back through all 3 pages! They are harem breeders, meaning each male requires multiple females to breed with. This is because of their aggression level once they reach spawning age. So, it's really best not to ask for a pair, anyway.

If you want pairing fish, you need to step over into Tanganyikans!


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