# Two questions...sort of related



## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

So I recently purchased my first ever canister filter, and it's working great, aside from the fact that i need to replace the impeller in the near future. the only problem is that the pipes in the tank (the intake and the return flow pipes) are electic green. my bg is black construction paper. problem. is there a spray paint that is aquarium safe that i can use to paint these? also, if i paint these 'black', will it clash with my current bg? I wish i could paint the bg of the tank, but it's already setup...  
Second question. since i am new to the whole canister filter thing, and my tank is only a 20 long, i currently have my return spraybar about 2 inches from the substrate. i've noticed that most of the spraybars are placed with in 2 inches of the top of the tank. why is this? is it mandatory, or is it personal preference? right now, i have it where it is because i can hide most of it behind the rock in my tank (all of it in fact, except a few inches at the top...), and because it hides the ugly color...

I know a lot of these subjects have been covered before, but I wanted opinions for my specific case.
Thanks for your help and time,

Manoah Marton


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

No magic on where they are placed. I place my intake near the bottom as that was the way it came and it seemed to make sense to get the water off the bottom to catch as much debris floating along the bottom as possible. I have my water going back into the tank near the top with the holes pointed slightly upward. This gives me good surface agitation for air exchange and keeping the surface moving. Depending on how high your tank and viewing angle, can you put the spraybar along the top rim of the tank? Small holes drilled in the tank lip for small wire to tie it? Painted near the same color this would help to hide it. As an alternate you could coat the spraybar with silicone and embed some of your sand or gravel in it to camouflage it. I'm not a big fan of painted stuff inside the tank. I find the paint get knocked off and really looks worse.


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## Malawi_Junkie (Nov 26, 2009)

Krylon Fusion spray paint will work. Never seen anyone put a spray bar that low in the tank but I don't see any reason why you couldn't. Raising it to create surface agitation would be beneficial as mentioned. What species are you keeping in a 20 long?


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

just a pair of black zambian calvus (who btw showed signs of courtship/near spawning today, very excited) and 2 zebra danio dithers...(there were 3, but one of the calvus snacked on the other one... 

where is that paint typically found? will it 'match' or at least not clash with the different black on my bg?
also, there is surface agitation currently to some extent. i have this thing with over filtration in most of my tanks. the canister is 300+ gph. lol. needless to say, my water is pristine. 
thanks for all the imput so far,

manoah marton


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## Malawi_Junkie (Nov 26, 2009)

Krylon Fusion comes in Flat, satin, or gloss black finish. Flat black would probly be the way to go in order to best match black construction paper. Ace hardware or some Walmarts have it for about $4 -$5 a can. Good Luck and I hope they get it on.


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## kinesis (Aug 20, 2009)

+1 on the krylon fusion


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

okay, i'll see if i can pick some of that up. i think it would really enhance the appearance of the tank, if there wasn't bright green tubes all along the back of the tank =D.
also, how long should it dry before submerged?
thanks for all your help,

manoah marton


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## Malawi_Junkie (Nov 26, 2009)

Dries in like 15 minutes.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

sweet. my calvus look like their about to spawn, so i probably wont paint the tube until after that, and the fry are a couple days old (if they make it that far, and they actually spawn at all). i just don't want to have to be taking down my rock structures when their spawning.
and i think I'll probably keep my outlet where it currently is.
thanks for all your help,

manoah marton


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## epipeinfo (Sep 23, 2010)

Helloo every one. I am just new to this website.. nothing more i want to say


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

oh. well, welcome to the boards. hope you learn a lot,

manoah marton


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Went ahead and did the Background and the pipes with black spray paint. I used a rust-oleum black plastic spray paint for the pipes, and a super cheap economy black spray paint for the background. The tank looks awesome. You can hardly see any equipment, even if you look.
I also moved my spraybar up to about 2 inches below the waterline. 
Just wanted to update. :wink:

Manoah Marton


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## demonsoni (Feb 10, 2006)

Once you go canister, you never go back.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

I know. I LOVE my canister! But, Aquaclears are awesome as well, as far as HOB's go.


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## Jamey (Jul 19, 2008)

I always heavily over filtered too, until I got more serious about it, all of a sudden over filtering 2 55s, a 75 and a 29 got a lot harder! now I'm staring down another 300 gallons of tanks getting ready to install and I'm thinking... air pumps and sponge filters anyone?


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

demonsoni said:


> Once you go canister, you never go back.


I think you would be surprised at the number of people who have dictched their cans, in favor of the larger amounts of flow and ease of service, that quality HOB have to offer.

* most of the spraybars are placed with in 2 inches of the top *

Water agitation. You lose all that oxygen enrichment that the HOB was giving you.
Also, should you loose a seal/hose/fitting, you won`t drain the tank through back siphon.

Hope your can works out for you, but hang on to those HOB just incase you start to miss how easy it was to clean your filters.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

Agreed!!! I have an aquaclear as well, and I actually, to be very honest, like it just as much as my canister. I mean it's easier to clean, smaller, and has a very, very close turnover rate (the aquaclear has a 300 gph turnover, and my canister (JEBO 828) has a 312 gph (I think) turnover rate.) But, a significant advantage of canisters is their capability to hold such massive amounts of filtering medium. 
(It's actually kinda funny, I have my canister (the 312+gph JEBO) on a 20 gallon. ROFL. You'll swear it's the cleanest water you'll ever see! :lol: )

Manoah Marton


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

demonsoni said:


> Once you go canister, you never go back.


Not true. Depends on your setups; mine are sitting unused.


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

In my 125 gallon, I used both a canister and HOB. I have my Eheim 2217 spraybar vertical under the water line so it creates a current in my tank and I have my AC 110 at the other end of the tank for surface agitation.


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

ooooouu...ahhhh....debate...maybe the mods won't mind if it's on my own thread......buhahahahah...

HOB's:
Advantages: 
1. Smaller, easier to hide
2. Great surface agitation, with minimal noise
3. Ease of cleaning
Disadvantages:
1. Have smaller media chambers as opposed to canisters
2. Will become noisy if sand gets caught in the impeller. In canisters, the water is forced through the media first, then through the impeller (or so I'm told).
3. Can be tricky getting them in postition, where as a canister, just set it on the floor, and your good to go.

Canister's:
Advantages: 
1. Larger media chambers
2. Easy to hide
3. Exccelent water clarity and filtration, because it must pass thought so much media
Disadvantages:
1. In some situations can be hard to hide
2. Difficult to clean
3. Generally less airation as opposed to a HOB

PLAN:
Use a canister, and a HOB on each tank. 
Advantages:
You get the best of both worlds, both exccelent airation, and good mechanical filtration, while still having large amounts of bio-filtration and bio media.

Conclusion:
While the cost may be more, I have shown you that there are significant advantages to using two types of filters on a tank, and, while it may cost a little more, unless showing stressed, using two filters (a canister, and a HOB) is far more adventagious to using one type.

Sorry, I'm a little bored, and just thought it would be kinda fun to weight the advantages vs. the disads of each filter.

Manoah Marton


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Good review on some of the good and bad points. Trouble is--- much of it depends on where/how each is used. I find one of my Emperor 400 to be great to clean and work with. That would lead me to say they are easier to clean than cans. The other 400 is on a tank with a canopy pretty much like the first and it is a terrible pain to maintain. The difference?? One I can walk up to the end and reach behind the tank to deal with the filter. The other is blocked at the end and I have to get a stool and reach over the canopy to remove the filter. If there was not a window behind the tank, I would have to remove the canopy to remove the filter. As it is, I have to raise the blinds to get the bucket off. Real pain all round.

My point is that there are so many variables that it is almost impossible to say one works better in all cases.

On one tank, where I have an Ehiem 2217, I would shoot myself before trying to get to a HOB to clean it! That or hire six little pygmies to bring it out to me!


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## Manoah Marton (Feb 17, 2009)

:lol: 
Yep, I realize that, I was just tryin to give a lowdown on the good/bad points of each, having owned both. I was just saying, in general, and I think you'll agree with me on this, that if possible, having one of each filter on an aquarium is going to be almost always beneficial.

I absolutly understand your point on the ease of use. My 20g rests almost flush up against my bedroom wall, and all but that new HOB (gosh, I forgot the name, it's super thin...hmmm...not coming to me...) would absolutly not fit in that space. My canister however...beautiful. Almost like it was made for it.

Manoah Marton


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