# Need Help



## FWKyle (May 14, 2009)

Hey guys im new around here and I need some help and guidance.

Heres the problem at hand.

I have a 20g tank which has Africans in it. There are 4 about 1.5" in size and a misc pleco. Today I introduced a fontosa of the same size and they are just taring it up to the point where I have it in a bowl with some tank water ATM. We have had this problem in the past with introducing new fish, the four are just overly aggressive. I really like the fontosa but im not sure its going to make it through the night. What should I do?

PS regarding the tank size issue im getting a 46g in the near future so the plan is to transfer the FW stuff into this new tank.


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## Ichigo (May 17, 2008)

Hello Im no expert but ill just state what i think....

First of all, you cant keep a frontosa and 4 african cichlids in a 20 gallon tank. These cichlids are sooo aggressive and requires a lot of space for their territory. Introducing a new fish wil sure make the new fish to get abused i should say :lol: because your tank is too small. 
*Get first a bigger tank.*

what are youre stock list? for cichlids the ratio should be 1 male is to 4 or 5 females to reduce aggressiveness.

And i think Frontosas are nit compatible with malawi cicglids ( if youre keeping malawi)


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

ill buy youre front...... i have one in a 150 gallon .. which is about minimum for that fish


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## FWKyle (May 14, 2009)

Well I have since taken the main aggressor out as it has caused many problems and I have somebody picking it up today. Yes I know the tank is small and like I said it will get much bigger in a very short period of time. I added a small flower pot in and the front loves it so im hoping for the best while its stuck in a 20g.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

20 gallon is way too small for 4 africans...most likely the reason you are seeing such high aggression.

Fronts get way big and like jfly said I wouldn't put one in less than about 120g tank minimum...they get big and need some room to move...I would say if you were going with a tank that size bare minimum footprint would need to be 5' long.

If you do get a 46 bowfront I would say you could probably keep about 12 africans in there which would give you about a 2 species tank if you go with the male/female harem setup.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

P.S. 12 african mbuna with a maximum full grown size of 5-6". I realized after posting that fronts are africans as well...would hate to see you slap 12 fronts in a 46g lol.

Of course if you did a dwarf species you could go with more fish. If I ever do a tank that small I'd go with a demasoni/yellow lab mix which would allow for more fish and the yellows and blues do compliment each other very nicely.


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

It would be greatly beneficial for the future if you could also identify which species your africans were. A Kenyi and a yellow lab are two completely different fish in terms of temperment and stocking. If they came out of the "assorted african" tank at the LFS, try getting some pictures and posting them :thumb:


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

whew save yourself the headache / heart ache and do some research,, im sure most in here has learned the hard way.. unless youre intent is to buy a 120 + in the next 2 or 3 months id advise selling youre front and if not at least a 55 gallon soon the other africans as well.. no offense here, but a 20 gallon + africans = cruel


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

FWKyle said:


> Well I have since taken the main aggressor out as it has caused many problems and I have somebody picking it up today. Yes I know the tank is small and like I said it will get much bigger in a very short period of time. I added a small flower pot in and the front loves it so im hoping for the best while its stuck in a 20g.


I would stop buying fish, you aren't going to have a new, larger tank up and running in a short enough period of time to risk the health of your fish. Next, I would figure out what size tank you are going to get and start planning out that tank. Once you buy that tank, get it cycled. While it is cycling you can plan out your stocking.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

<<<agrees>>>>> since my first question on cf.. there has been nothing but great advice from dave.. i was hard headed and had to learn the hard way, and to some my tank still isnt "working", but hey its give and take... and right now take this golden, free advice :thumb:

and prepare to spend some time doing so.. this is an addiction, a "cich"ness if you will


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## FWKyle (May 14, 2009)

Dave said:


> FWKyle said:
> 
> 
> > Well I have since taken the main aggressor out as it has caused many problems and I have somebody picking it up today. Yes I know the tank is small and like I said it will get much bigger in a very short period of time. I added a small flower pot in and the front loves it so im hoping for the best while its stuck in a 20g.
> ...


Yup no new fish are going into the current tank and the planning has already started for the larger tank. Leaning towards the 46 bow front but still unsure. Dont worry it will be properly cycled as was this tank. But yes this time around there will be a lot more planning probably going to be asking for suggestions when the time comes.

While I agree its a small space right now I dont feel that its too small for their stage of life, still very small fish and yes a new tank will come in the very near future.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

46 is gonna be wayyyy to small for the front, but they do grow slow.. now heres a true delima.. i am having to get a 125 now for my front.. my mbuna eat all the food and hes so passive he doesnt get to eat and hasnt in days.. so i was trying to cut back and sell tanks.. now *** got to get another this week.. your front is really going to suffer with mbuna, if not physically harassment,, then at least his nutrition.. they have to be kinda JUST kept together


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## FWKyle (May 14, 2009)

jfly said:


> 46 is gonna be wayyyy to small for the front, but they do grow slow.. now heres a true delima.. i am having to get a 125 now for my front.. my mbuna eat all the food and hes so passive he doesnt get to eat and hasnt in days.. so i was trying to cut back and sell tanks.. now I've got to get another this week.. your front is really going to suffer with mbuna, if not physically harassment,, then at least his nutrition.. they have to be kinda JUST kept together


I understand that I figure within a couple of years we will have even a bigger tank, the idea of the tank growing with the fish is what we are doing.

Ok so this front is starting to get more acquainted, we got rid of the real aggressive fish though its still getting picked on somewhat but its hanging in there and everyday getting more energy back. Its problem is fin/tissue damage right now. Does anybody have a very good method for repairing fin/tissue at a faster rate then it would naturally? Our temp is set to about 76-77 we have near perfect water reading levels and the only thing we put in there is stress coat and RO water. If anybody has some ideas please let me know asap.


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

FWKyle said:


> I understand that I figure within a couple of years we will have even a bigger tank, the idea of the tank growing with the fish is what we are doing.
> 
> Ok so this front is starting to get more acquainted, we got rid of the real aggressive fish though its still getting picked on somewhat but its hanging in there and everyday getting more energy back. Its problem is fin/tissue damage right now. Does anybody have a very good method for repairing fin/tissue at a faster rate then it would naturally? Our temp is set to about 76-77 we have near perfect water reading levels and the only thing we put in there is stress coat and RO water. If anybody has some ideas please let me know asap.


Buy the tank, THEN get that fish. That order, not the reverse. Something will come up, and you won't be able to get the larger tank. Then the fish gets stuck in the smaller tank for the rest of it's life. That's how Fronts end up in 55s, and it's not ok. Buy the tank, and THEN get the fish for it. If you can't afford a 125+ now, odds are you won't be able to afford it later either.

Do you have a hospital tank? As long as the front is still getting picked on, he won't heal. He shouldn't be in with mbuna (assuming btw...) anyway. The best thing for him would be a hospital tank where he's away from the other fish and getting water changes every few days with regular tap water. RO water doesn't have any minerals etc in it, and is not helping heal at all. Use the regular tap water. I don't normally use stress coat, but you're probably not hurting anything with it.

You need to figure out your long term plans. Do you want a frontosa tank, or an active african tank? Long term, your front is going to get picked on by the other fish you have. Doesn't matter how big the front is. They're still going to harass him. Get a 75 and make a nice Mbuna tank, or get a 6 foot tank and make it for a colony of fronts. One or the other.


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