# Black and white tank!



## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

I originally posted this in Lake Malawi b/c I thought that I would have more of a variety to choose from for black and white fish but after talking with people and doing research I think that it is going to be a Tang tank...I will be starting a 75g tank soon and really love the idea of a black and white motif. I want to do white sand with black slate and black lava type rocks scape. I will also be using black oil base paint to cover the back. I have decided to not do any plants to try and keep it modern/clean looking. This is what I have decided for fish stocking so far see if this would be compatible and any substitutions or removals is welcomed as long as replacements are black and white or one of the other:

Altolamprologus calvus (Chaitika) 6 (3 pairs)
Chalinochromis popelini 8 (2m/6f)
'Lamprologus' stappersii 5 (1m/4f)
Syno Multipunctatus 4

I'm not that familiar with Tangs so please bare with me as far if my ?s are dumb. These are some that were suggested to me as far as black and white coloration. I know that some may come with a tint of blue or brown here and there but I think this is as close as I'm going to get! I also don't know if these guys are harem breeders or if they pair up and stay paired up so that would be a help as well. If you guys/gals know of any other species other than these that are black and white or just black just white please make adjustments to my list. The only species that I'm dead set on is the white Calvus gotta have them haha. Also someone suggested to fill the top swimming areas with black, white, and/or Dalmatian mollies but won't they get eaten? Thanks


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

For the Calvus, you can usually get away with more than one female, but you are not likely to be able to house more than a one male without stocking them in a large colony. Have you looked at any of the Julidochromis? Many of them have black and white patterns. Like your Calvus, they are rock dwellers. In a 75 you should be able to fit pair or trio of Calvus and a pair of Julies along with your Lamprologus stappersii. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know anything about the rest of your stock list or how well they will "play" with the others.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Thanks I am completely new to the Tang lake so I haven't had much time to look around the lake if you will haha. I will def check them out! do you have an opinion on the Mollies in the tank with the tang though?


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

I haven't tried it, but my best guess is that the mollies wouldn't last.

The chalinochromis might be harder to find- Julidochromis transcriptus or ornatus are more common. With shellies, you'll want to avoid the bigger julies.

Calvus are great, start with six, see who's left. Same with julies or chalinos- start with six and let the breeding groups form themeselves. I didn't think my stappersi were all that black/white- more like shades of silver and brown. Very pretty though, and a good mix for separating territories.

I'm not sure what you could use for the open water... how about some albino cyprichromis or paracyprichromis? You'd have to shop around, but i know there's a few online retailers that get these in stock...


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

Lamprologus speciosus (Black Ocellatus) may fit your black and white theme a bit better than the Stappersi. Although, I hear they are a bit more aggressive.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

I also think the mollies won't last. They're too slow. Most tangs won't pursue dither fish all over the tank to harm them but they will deliver serious bites if the victim is too slow in exiting their territories.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Ok Thanks for the input guys so from the research that I have been doing all of these species are bottom or shell dwellers even the Calvus likes to be on the bottom in shells? What if I incorporate larger/Medium shells in the rock work to give them other mid-water options as homes has anyone tried this or had success with getting them off the bottom I just don't want 3 species of cichlid on the bottom of my tank and then the syno cats as well that will be too many fish trying to occupy the bottom right?


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

So the Calvus apparently doesn't live in the shells but spawns in them is this correct? So if it is will they utilize the shells placed in the rock work or do they only use shells flat or buried in the substrate? Has anyone ever tried this before where they positioned large to medium shells in the rock work almost like cave but still shells that have been used by Calvus during breeding? Sorry if I seem like an idiot I'm pretty new in this lake


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

In the wild, Calvus use narrow, vertical rock crevices to spawn. In our tanks, they like welk/conch shaped shells because they resemble the crevices. Accordingly, I would guess that they will be fine with shells propped up in the rocks. Yes, they do seem to use more height of the tank if the rock piles extend higher up. However, for me they stick to the contour of the aquascpe. If the aquascape goes down, so do the Calvus as they swim over it. YouÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re not going to find them swimming in the upper water over an open sand bed - unless itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s feeding time.

In designing territories, my Calvus decides who owns what based on open sand between objects. The wider the sand gap, the more definitive it is as a territory. Originally, I had one big rock pile (mbuna style), and one fish claimed the entire thing. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve since rearranged the tank into a few distinct piles separated by open sand - it has worked much better for me.

For the most part, Calvus donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t seem to bother other types of fish in the tank. At least mine donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t seem to really care about my Brevis one way or the other. However, I think that they will try to remove all other inhabitants from the area when they spawn. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve only had one spawn thus far, and the male has pushed everyone else to the other side of the tank (itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a 36Ã¢â‚¬Â


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Ok thank you for all your help seeing that you kept a similar set up in a 36" tank and this will be a 48" 75g what do you think about my stock list as far as numbers go I don't want the tank to look like it is deserted only seeing one or two fish every once in a while of the species that was named how many of each do you think so I can know? you seem to know a lot here so I would like to get some more advice on how many total fish of each and ratios M/F:
White/Pearl Calvus?
'Lamprologus' speciosus?<- Good suggestion I like them more than the others
and to be honest I think that the Chalinochromis popelini are cool looking fish but there is some variety with them like i see some that look kind of yellowish and some that look good and white so I don't know if I want to take that chance. I know with those Shellies you recommended I noticed that the males aren't pure black but they will also spend a lot of time in the shells and the females are stunning! So cancel out the three species eliminating Popelini and only having Calvus and Speciousus...How big of a colony of Calvus can I have for the rocks and How many Shellies on the bottom? If I can have more shellies if I get rid of the Synos I will just do more vac with WCs but I really want to keep the BNP! Thanks


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

I got my Calvus as juveniles last October, and theyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve just had their first spawn - it just happened a few days ago. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t want to come off as more experienced than I really am. The rest of what I know, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve learned from reading the many great posts here.

Are you starting with sexed adults or with unsexed juveniles? With juveniles, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s typical to start with 6 of each species and grow them out until natural pairs form then remove the outcasts.

For sexed adults, the most traveled route would be a pair or trio of Calvus, a pair of Julies, and a handful of shellies (like 2 males 4 females). And then something for the open water (most commonly Cyps, but they donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t fit your theme). The issue with Calvus is that you can only get 1 male per tank unless you pack in a large number of them. For Julies, once a pair forms the pair will kill off all other Julies one by one until just a pair is left. This is the route most people take and it would give you:

- 1 pair or trio of Calvus (1 male and 1 or 2 females)
- 1 pair of Julies (1 male and 1 female)
- 6 Specious (2 males 4 females) <- IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m guessing here
- 12 -15 open water fish (normally Cyps,)
- Not sure about your SynoÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s or the pleco

The other route would be to do a Colony of Calvus since they are the fish you want the most. I have no idea how to do this appropriately or what tank mates (if any) would work in such a setting. The upside is you can have more than one male and youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll have more Calvus overall in the tank. The downside (for me at least), is that I think it would change the way they normally behave and interact. But, that might not be what you are going for anyway.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

*jrf*
Of the Julies and cyps do you know any that will fit my black and white theme?

To anyone else:
Ok so then I guess my ? to any on looking posters is how do you do a colony of Calvus and how many could I do in a 75g? Can there be any other tank mates like Specious shellies? Does this alter their normal behaviors any?


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

GotCichlids? said:


> *jrf*
> Of the Julies and cyps do you know any that will fit my black and white theme?


For the Julies:
Transcriptus, Dickfeldi, Marlieri all have black and white patterned variants. I'd go with the smaller transcriptus in a community tank.

For Cyps:
I'm not sure of any that fit. The males are all very colorful. If nothing else, black and white Danios may work. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve seen others mention them as dithers for tang setups.


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## mielkeal (Mar 3, 2006)

As far as the cyps go there are tricolor and blackbee variants that have jet black dorsal and anal fins but they have yellow on their heads and caudal fins. They are also a little harder to come by.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

I think that I want to do a larger colony of the white/pearl Calvus and then a colony of the black and white shellies! Does anyone have any experience with a high number colony of Calvus and know of a good number/ratio I could have in a 75g?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

The Chalinochromis are likely to pick on the shell dwellers. I would recommend going with a small Julidochromis instead. Additionally, it is my opinion that Synodontis do not make good tank mates for substrate spawners. They'll sit in their caves, and eat the eggs/fry, often evicting the cichlids out of their territories. In some cases the Synodontis lose, ending up maimed or dead.

In a 75 gallon, I would do a trio of calvus. You don't house Tangs in the numbers you do Malawians.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Thanks *Fogelhund* I can always count on some good advice from you! So my question then I think would be since I'm really trying to stick to the black and white motif should I x out the shellies all and all. I was looking at several pics of them when doing research (not only on the forum but peoples non show pics) and seems as though most don't even have true black and white coloration but more of brown and the blues and yellows. The Julidochromis marlieri seem to be a good fit as well for the black and white but I'm kind of leaning toward species specific but not ruling out a breeding colony of these and the trio of calvus and shellies. I think though that the pearl/white Calvus will hold the black and white coloration the truest and if I do a species specific tank do you think still only a trio in a 75g or if it is species specific can I sustain a larger colony of like 2/3m to say 9/10 females? Thanks for all the advice to everyone who has posted I'm trying to expand my experience out of Lake Malawi


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

If going for a black and white small tank I would start with a group of Telmatochromis bifrenatus.
Look stunningly wierdly wonderful in a group.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

is a 75g small for a tang tank?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Many Tang cichlids will treat a 75g as a breeding tank and try and kill all oposition.
75g yep you have a good hope of having up to about three species of Tang co-habiting well but they need to be the sort that can be bred in tanks very much smaller.
Julidochromis marlieri would not be a choice of mine for such a tank with other cichlids.
As would a lot of black and white Tang cichlids that would be happy if kept separate in a 75g but together may prove to be a pain.
Altos are good for a big fish in a small tank but Julies and Lamps be very careful.
You can not stick two or three cichlids happy to breed well in a 29g into a 75g and expect them to do well together. Sure it can work if you select em careful.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Ok well I'll try and approach this at a different angle as this is getting way too confusing . I want to do the black and white tank still but I have decided that I want to just do a species specific tank! The species that I have decided on is the White/Pearl Calvus. Seeing that it will be a 75g tank I would think that I would be able to sustain a breeding colony of them not just a trio. I was thinking about 2-3 males and 15 females. I know to break the line of sight and have plenty of hiding spots which will def be a long process that will probably consume most of my cycling time just getting the rocks/shells, substrate and everything in place that will be suitable for the fish and pleasing to look at! I realize that 18 Calvus might be too many for the tank so I was thinking something like 2 Males 10 females might be more reasonable but the more fish I can get to work the better! Comments on this idea welcome as I have done research on the species and don't think that a larger colony will change their breeding or natural behavior as was previously suggested and I think will actually enhance these behaviors. Thanks for continuing on helping me with these topics.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Can't hurt to try, but you may have difficulty with more than one male in the tank. I have two males in the 72" tank and fairly often I think I am going to have to remove one. I am monitoring day to day.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Well what if I go for something like 1m/12f I know that it is kind of silly to have 12 females for one male but he would def be happy! I just don't know if he will be overwhelmed? I can def consider this option b/c the males and females look very similar and the females aren't drab! What about this combo with some cyno cats and an albino BN pleco?


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Any thoughts of stocking:
12 White Calvus 1m/11f
4 syno Cats
1 Albino BN Pleco


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

GotCichlids? said:


> Any thoughts of stocking:
> 12 White Calvus 1m/11f
> 4 syno Cats
> 1 Albino BN Pleco


What is the purpose of having 1m 11f in a tank, if the Syno's are likely to eat all the eggs and fry?


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Fogelhund said:


> What is the purpose of having 1m 11f in a tank, if the Syno's are likely to eat all the eggs and fry?


So lose the cats what about the BN pelco will he disturb the broods??


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Will 11f be too much for one male to handle?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

GotCichlids? said:


> Will 11f be too much for one male to handle?


Let me conduct a test, and get back to you.


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

Fogelhund said:


> GotCichlids? said:
> 
> 
> > Will 11f be too much for one male to handle?
> ...


 :lol:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> So lose the cats what about the BN pelco will he disturb the broods??


Not in my experience.

I have 3m/5f calvus in a six foot tank that all grew up together and they do fine. There was some initial mild sparring between males when they reached maturity, but nothing serious and they ignore each other pretty much now. Four of the five females shoal around together. Not sure why the fifth stays to herself. Very limited breeding as it's an active, four species community tank.

HTH

I don't know whose pic this is or remember where I found it but always thought it made a stunning display. Consider a contrast in color to the black/white decor.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Fogelhund said:


> GotCichlids? said:
> 
> 
> > Will 11f be too much for one male to handle?
> ...


What kind of test? where you just saying that that is a dumb question?


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

GotCichlids? said:


> Fogelhund said:
> 
> 
> > GotCichlids? said:
> ...


I'm fairly certain he was selflessly volunteering to use himself as the test subject.


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## eeztropheus (Jan 10, 2010)

prov356 said:


> > So lose the cats what about the BN pelco will he disturb the broods??
> 
> 
> Not in my experience.
> ...


Great picture prov356...

Go with Tropheus Duboisi Maswa if you want a true black and white tank. As juvies they are soild black with bright white dots (hence the name stary night). As adults, soild black with the brite white band and that signature blue face. You could start with 24 juvies easy. You could also add some juvinile julies (transcriptus) in there with them. That would be an awsome tank!

If you do go with the Tropheus do your homework Trophs.com is the best place for all things tropheus.


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