# Popeye overnight? in only one eye? maybe injury?



## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Good morning!
I have an OB Zebra that seems to have developed popeye overnight in his right eye. I can't get a really good look at it because he won't turn toward me. I do my water changes on Sunday, so the 75 gallon got a 60% water change yesterday. I took readings before I changed the water - temp 78.5, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate between 10-20 ppm, closer to 10. didn't measure gh or kh but I could if necessary.
He was perfectly fine yesterday afternoon.
Yes, there are a lot of rocks, some are sharp, so this could be an injury, I'm not sure. He does not have any visible fin damage. Sure, there's plenty of aggression in my tank, but it's all spread around... I'm in a relatively peaceful cycle right now. this fish seems to get along with everyone, too.
I am already using Melafix in the tank because another fish had a little bit of mouth fungus, and I didn't want it to get out of hand. I was going to quit today actually because all traces of the mouth fungus was gone on the one fish...
I have metro in the freezer; enough to start dosing the whole tank. (I've already taken out the purigen, and I don't use carbon.)
What do you think? :? 
Continue Melafix? Start Metro and discontinue Melafix? Melafix & Metro? something else? I have a hospital tank running, I could isolate, but it would be somewhat of an ordeal to get him... my tank is so heavily stuffed with stuff... driftwood, petrified wood, fake plants, rocks...
I'll try to get a picture if I can.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

...well... for lack of suggestions, I isolated, started Melafix yesterday, and just now started Metronidazole. On the Seachem website, they recommended Kanaplex, so I ordered that overnighted (yikes... keep the stuff in stock in your freezer so you don't have to pay outrageous shipping! ) and will switch to that when it arrives... Still debating on Epsom salt, but I think I'll hold off unless someone really thinks that will help. Have added aquarium salt to the hospital tank.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

update, so if I'm doing the wrong thing, it will be documented for posterity as what _not _to do... Late last night, after reading various things on the internet, I decided to go ahead with some Epsom salt. 
I added 1 teaspoon/5 gallons over an hour's period of time. Fish seemed fine, and I do have a lot of aeration. This morning, the eye seemed slightly less bulged, I think... maybe 25% down... I am adding another 1 teaspoon/5 gallons... 
Fish is swimming around, appetite is fine, and he seems to be seeing a little better out of that eye. I'm pretty convinced that yesterday he couldn't see anything out of it...
I'll let you know how it goes! opcorn:


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

OK, so yesterday, Day 3, did a 75% water change, and refilled with the same amount of aquarium salt and epsom salt for the water I'd taken out; 2 teaspoons/5 gallons of the epsom, 1 TB/5 gallons of the aquarium salt. Did 2nd dose of Metro. Added my melafix, too. Kanaplex came last night, so I dosed with that, too. Fish seems pretty happy... 29 gallon to himself... swims around a lot, still eating well. Definitely does not seem to be able to see much out of his right eye. eye has remained about the same; swelling about 25% down, but does seem somewhat clearer. Don't really know what to expect as far as how quickly he will recover...

If anyone has and ideas on what I might to to aid in this process, please let me know! Thanks!


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

So, this is day 8... I've done another WC, about 80% yesterday, and am keeping the aquarium salt concentration at 1 heaping TB/5 gallons, and 2 teaspoons of Epsom salt/5 gallons, based on the replacement water quantity. The only change seems to be that the eye is less cloudy, and the fish might be seeing out of it some now. It has not gone down any more in size than it was the 3rd day. I'm going to do one more round of Kanaplex today just to be sure...


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

...I finally got some photos... it appears to have been caused by a nasty cut. The photos don't do the swelling justice, but I'm pretty sure I'm dealing with an injury... would appreciate any comments as to eye damage healing if you've experienced it... if not, these entries will either serve as what to do or what _not _to do when your fish pokes himself in the eye! The waiting continues... opcorn:

cichlideye-1003 by raines.julie, on Flickr

cichlideye-1002 by raines.julie, on Flickr

cichlideye-1001 by raines.julie, on Flickr

cichlideye-1000 by raines.julie, on Flickr


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Day 12...
after a few days of seemingly no change, the swelling is down significantly this morning! 
Fish is still active, eating well. Seems to see a little out of that eye, but definitely not seeing well out of it. 
The cloudiness is gone, and I would say the swelling is down 50% from the beginning.
So, was it the Kanaplex, Metronidazole, the Melafix, aquarium salt, epsom salt, clean water and a 29 gallon tank to himself, or ??? I don't know... :? 
I definitely took the shotgun approach to fixing him up...
But he's getting better for sure, so I'm happy! :dancing:


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Day 18...
Not much change since day 12. The swelling is less than 50% of original. It doesn't look that unusual if you don't see the other eye at the same time to compare it to... Did a 80% WC on Sunday, and on Monday one more dose of Kanaplex.
I believe it will continue to get better, but I'm kind of concerned that he doesn't seem to see well out of it. The eye moves, he appears to be trying to see out if it, but pellets will still go right by his head on the right, and he won't go after them until he sees them with his left eye. I would hate him to lose sight out of that one eye; it would be an extreme tactical disadvantage to him. Anyway, I'll keep posting until he gets better.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Day 21
Swelling seems down today. If you weren't really paying attention, you would no longer notice. About 25% of what it was originally.
No more meds other than Melafix daily. 
Going to do an 80% WC this afternoon, no more epsom salt, just aquatium salt 1TB/5 gallons on the replacement water.
Still on the fence whether he can see out of it or not... it's not cloudy, and sometimes he moves like he has to be seeing out of it, but other times a food pellet goes right by and he definitely doesn't see that... 
I'm going to keep him in here another week and see how it goes.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hmmm... I think I spoke too soon on the cloudy eye... It is cloudy. The only thing that has changed over the last week is decreasing epsom salt and I haven't used any antibiotics. I still have been using Melafix. So... I hit him with another round of Kanaplex today... very frustrating. The cut itself does seem to have healed, but that eye is still bulging some... My husband says I need to make him a little pirate eye patch... hmmm...

DSCF2395 by raines.julie, on Flickr

DSCF2397 by raines.julie, on Flickr


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

You might want to try a round of erythromycin and see if that clears up the cloudiness. API seems to be the better choice as Mardels Maracyn is difficult to find and may be discontinued.
Keep an eye on water parameters while treating with this med as it can be harsh on nitrifying bacteria and may cause ammonia or nitrite spikes (or not) depending on the amount and maturity of available bio. A separate hospital tank is recommended.
If you're not seeing an improvement following the manufacturers recommended treatment, you could also try a bath using erythromycin and epsom salt as described here: http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/20 ... edications
Finally, a third alternative is a direct application of Potassium Permanganate (Jungle Clear Water) to the eye using a dropper.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

He's in a 29 gallon by himself; my old cycled tank before I moved everyone to the 75 gallon. I've just kept it running for a hospital tank.

Before I put him in 3 weeks ago, I measured the nitrates at 30ppm. I did a 95% WC, and then the water changes I've mentioned over the last 3 weeks.

I checked the tank parameters again today, 2 days after a 70% WC, ph 8.3, ammo 0, nitrite 0, nitrate also seems to be zero... I think my test kit is ok because I measured the other tank at the same time, and I do get a reading.

I think with just one fish in there, recent WC, and the fact that I use seachem stability, which supposedly does have anaerobic bacteria that eats nitrates, I think my nitrate is really at 0.

If the erythromycin kills the bacteria, it does... I will re-seed it if necessary. but I will watch closely...


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Wow, always something new here... one step forward and 2 steps back... I'll try to get a photo, but tonight the eye looked a little more swollen again. Looking closely, there are 3 tiny air bubbles in the eye! You can see from the photos I already have posted that they were not there before. I do use pressurized water for my changes (from my tap) but no bubbles have formed on anything in the tank... I don't know. Erythromycin should be here tomorrow... I will see how it goes.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

So I was able to get 2 photos. I overexposed them a lot so you can see but those are bubbles in the eye, that have not been there before.

So this post is like my little diary... This has been challenging to say the least...

I do not think my water could be oversaturated with nitrogen or oxygen, as I saw no bubbles forming on anything inside the tank. We'll see if they absorb back into his body...

cichlideye-3000 by raines.julie, on Flickr

cichlideye-2000 by raines.julie, on Flickr


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Gas bubble disease. From what I've read, there's no treatment, just wait and see what happens. Hopefully he pulls through. :thumb:


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

...damaged tissue must be much more susceptible... I must have had too much of a temperature difference on one of the many water changes I did, as I have a lot of aeration with airstones and a spraybar, and when I fill the tank do not submerge the hose... I also have a submerged pump (no venturi/no bubbles) that just shoots up toward the top to agitate as well now.
Usually, gas bubble disease is in both eyes, or so I read. The other 3 hospital tankmates (new fish) show no signs of anything being wrong, luckily.
The standard checks, air bubbles inside the tank and sticking something dry into the tank to see if bubbles form, do not indicate oversaturation right now, so I hope I'm OK moving forward. I have an O2 test kit, I'll run tonight, but have no way to test for oversaturation of nitrogen...
Fish still very active, eats well, seems happy, etc. I WILL be upset if he loses that eye! 
I guess I need to be more careful with the temperature of the water changes... hmmm... :?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

It's quite rare in my limited experience. Since joining CF, this is the first time I've seen anyone post photos of this.
I'd chalk it up more to bad luck rather than anything else. I hope you don't feel too badly about it. I did come across a case where a fish with GBD continued to live normally while still retaining the gas bubbles in it's eye.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

How is that fish? I've been following your posts and curious as to how he's doing. You've worked hard on that guy!


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

He has been moved back into the main tank. The 3 little bubbles have turned into one larger bubble. There has been little/no change in the last 10 days since I've posted.

He acts normally... tryin' to spawn with the ladies, but he does hang out on the right side of the tank by a piece of driftwood, thereby keeping others unable to come up on his weak side. He does act like a picked on fish, even though I don't think he is...

It is so frustrating, but to have it come on literally overnight like that would seem to point to me having done something. And I'm not particularly careful about temperature on water changes... I don't use a venturi with a powerhead. He's had full doses of Metro, Kanamycin, and erythromycin. It's pretty unlikely that he could be "infected" with anything after all that. No other fish have exhibited anything like it. GTZ thinks just bad luck...

Anyway, I'm guessing I've spent about $100 on a fish that I paid less than $10 for... :lol:

I will continue to post on this if there are any changes, or if I learn of something new to try... hopefully others can learn from it. Thanks for asking!


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Today is Day 43... it gets better, it gets worse...

He lives a pretty much normal life back in the main tank. The 3 small bubbles in his eye sometimes dissipate to very small bubbles, and I think he's almost over it, and then he gets one large bubble in there. I usually see changes in the eye shortly after a water change, but I have also seen changes _between _water changes, too.

This experience has taught me to be more careful how I perform water changes... I run the pumps during water changes to help de-gas the water and I keep the temperature as close as possible; like within 1 degree.

What I have noticed in the tank itself by doing those 2 things is that 1.) fewer bubbles form inside the tank than before, and 2.) the ones that do are gone within an hour or so. Before I did that, those bubbles that form would be around for a day.

Many may think I'm being overly cautious, and perhaps I am. But those changes are easy ones to make, so I'm going to err on the side of caution.

Obviously, this fish didn't have too severe a case of gas bubble disease, or he'd be dead...

Anyway, I'll keep you updated; I'm hopeful his eye will eventually recover! opcorn:


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

Today is Day 82... it slowly seems to get a little better... OMG, so slowly, though.

The eye itself is no longer any larger than the other eye. But there are still small bubbles visible in the eye itself. I guess this means that the inflammation and/or trapped gases(?) behind the eye has resolved. The eye has not turned gray...

As far as his "life", it has somewhat affected him. He acts like a picked on fish even though he's not. What I mean by this is that he likes to hang toward the back of the tank, which is painted black, with that right side against the tank, so no one can come up on his weak side... Until I feed them, that is! Then he's all over and pushing everyone out of the way... In general, he is more skittish.

He's grown more, ventral fins have grown much longer... he's a good looking fish. I'll try again to get a photo


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