# Pro's and Con's of sand



## becikeja

My tank has been in storage for about a year and half. Long story but 2 cross country moves later I'm ready to start it back up. It will be a 125 Gallon cichlid tank. Still deciding if I will go with Central American Cichlids or Africans. I like the colors of the Africans but prefer the larger size of the Central's.

I used to have pea gravel but after being forced to clean the tank out to move I could not believe all the junk at the bottom. I thought I had done a good job of keeping it sucked out, but that was not the case. This time around I am considering going with sand. 
What are the pro's and con's?
What should I look for in selecting?
How much will I need?

all comments most appreciated.


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## DJRansome

Looks natural, the fish like it and does not accumulate mulm. You have to be careful not to suck too much up when siphoning. Get pool filter sand because of the larger, even grain size and it comes very clean (still clean it though). Two pounds/gallon should be plenty.


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## ozman

hi there,

most people these days go with pfs ( pool filter sand ) for the africans. i know nothing of substrate for central americans.

pro's for pfs...cheap and relatively clean, but still needs to be washed.
then easily cleand during weekly maintenance.
cons... none as far as i'm aware.
go to the library on this site where there is a volume calculator to get your required amount :thumb:


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## becikeja

I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly. You're saying to use Pool Filter Sand? Like the quickcrete pool sand you can find at Home Depot at $6 for 50lbs?
Sand at Petsmart is almost a $1 pound. (still looking for a decent fish store in the Memphis area if anyone knows of one) are you saying they will both work???


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## becikeja

As I look at this site more, (Should have done that in the first place) I see a lot of people using PFS. But I also see that every post says to rinse it /clean it / wash it , How in the heck do you rinse sand?


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## ozman

becikeja said:


> As I look at this site more, (Should have done that in the first place) I see a lot of people using PFS. But I also see that every post says to rinse it /clean it / wash it , How in the heck do you rinse sand?


depending on what volume size container you have, just put a hose into and push it to the bottom so that all cloudyness comes to the top and overflows till the water runs clear.
i also turn off the hose and give it a hands on deep turnover, and then continue with the hose.when the water is clear your good to go.

of course you need to do that with all your sand (pfs) before you add it to your tank :thumb:


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## becikeja

Thanks,
I think I'm convinced to give the Pool filter sand a go.


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## jimmie

becikeja said:


> Thanks,
> I think I'm convinced to give the Pool filter sand a go.


Well you can go with play sand or pool filter sand, thats the way to go, once you go with sand , you will never go back to gravel again..


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## Sparrow19

I am in the same position.. will be upgrading to at least a 150 and possibly a 210 soon. Currently have a 75G with gravel. I've been thinking of going with the sand too. Humm...


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## jcabage

becikeja said:


> I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly. You're saying to use Pool Filter Sand? Like the quickcrete pool sand you can find at Home Depot at $6 for 50lbs?


Try the sand from an actual pool supply store. You will pay $2-3 more for it, but IME it is much cleaner and more aesthetically pleasing. The quickcrete variety has a tendency to be 50/50 sand and mud, at least in my area. Good quality PFS looks awesome and can be cleaned in 2 minutes tops.



jimmie said:


> once you go with sand , you will never go back to gravel again..


Very true! I would avoid play sand at all costs though.

The only con I have ever seen with sand is the potential for high powered HOB filters to ingest it and grind their impeller shafts down to a state of continual impeller rattle. There are several ways to combat this though.


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## shelbynjakesdad

I agree with the others... there is no way I'm setting up a tank without sand again. So many advantages over gravel.


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## yamadog

In my area (Reno, NV) pfs is almost 20$a bag, compared to less than 6$ for anything at home depot. I used 120lbs. for my 6 foot tank. That puts it just about 1/2 inch above the trim ring. And I'll give you the one negative about sand......If your filter intake is too close to the bottom, sand is going to get sucked up and ruin your impeller. All my cichlids, regardless of where they come from dig in the sand, swim half way to the top of the tank and spit it out. So trust me when I say, don't have the intake too low.


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## pancakeloach

I use sand in all my tanks (even the planted one!) and for the tanks with HOB filters instead of canisters I just use a sponge prefilter over the intake. The little Fluval Edge pre-filter is the perfect size for mine.

Because as yamadog says, the fish will definitely spit sand into the intake if they can. :lol:


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## becikeja

Did not consider sand getting into the filter. I will be using a Fluval FX5 filter. Was very happy with the performance when I had it set up before. I had the intake as low as it would go in hopes of picking up as much floating debris as possible. If I raise the intake near the top I assume I will not pick up as much debris or sand. If I keep it low and pick up sand it will destroy the impeller. 
Hmmm. Several of you use sand, and all I assume have addressed this problem in some way or another. Am I getting worried for nothing? thoughts?


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## shelbynjakesdad

Sand is usually not a big problem for canister filters because the impeller is after the filter media. I always have a little sand in my canisters when I clean them, but none of it makes it through the sponges and other media. With HOB's the impeller is the first thing the sand will contact after it is sucked in. I keep my intakes about 3 inches from the sand. Raising them higher may result in less sand getting sucked in, but I have not had any issues.


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## skurj

becikeja said:


> Did not consider sand getting into the filter. I will be using a Fluval FX5 filter. Was very happy with the performance when I had it set up before. I had the intake as low as it would go in hopes of picking up as much floating debris as possible. If I raise the intake near the top I assume I will not pick up as much debris or sand. If I keep it low and pick up sand it will destroy the impeller.
> Hmmm. Several of you use sand, and all I assume have addressed this problem in some way or another. Am I getting worried for nothing? thoughts?


You could also add a prefilter on the intake and additional flow like a powerhead may help keep stuff in suspension longer so that even a higher intake will get it all in the end.


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## CjCichlid

It's not usually a concern with canisters when the motor is on top. However, the FX5 has the motor on the bottom which can allow sand to settle in it. Depending on the species of fish and the size/weight of the sand granules, I'd position the intake about midway from the top and bottom of the tank.


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## Sparrow19

What about using sand with a wet/dry and an overflow box. Waste would have to get to the top to travel through the filter, etc.

Also, can you effectively use a bubble wand with sand? I'd think the bubbles would displace the sand and then it wouldn't be buried and hidden. Humm..


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## DJRansome

I've never had the problem with PFS and filter intakes within an inch of the substrate.


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## mambee

I have sand in all 3 of my tanks and would never go back to gravel. I use Eheim canister filters on my 2 big tanks and never had a problem. I always find a tiny bit of sand at the bottom of the filters, but this doesn't cause a problem with the Eheims because the impellers are on top. However, I gave up on using HOBs on my big tanks because sand would always wind up in the filter and cause the impeller to grind. This is because I have large Geophagus/Uaru in my 150, and it seems like they are almost intentionally spitting sand into the intake tube.


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## ozman

DJRansome said:


> I've never had the problem with PFS and filter intakes within an inch of the substrate.


likewise in my last tank, perhaps it comes down to species and the attitudes involved!


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## becikeja

Excellent - Sand it is.


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## jimmie

Sand is the plan ...


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## johnchor

ya guys

i also have a problem with sand.. too much poo is left behind on the tank bottom...
even though my filter pump is 3000L/hr for 120gallon tank.

i found something call SUNSUN wavemaker pumps.. i got 1 at 3000L/hr 6 watts. 
these simply blow the poo of the sand and the poo circulate until they get suck by the filter pump.
u need to adjust them to proper position and angle to be effective...

but still it is not 100% perfect. some poo will still be there...


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## becikeja

johnchor, you made me think of an interesting idea. If we could just teach the fishes not to poo this entire discussion would not be necessary. Hmmmm??? How am I going to pull this one off???


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## xyzoptics

So all of you seem to be set on the sand, but I'm not actually seeing much discussion on why. Below are the points I've gathered on this:

- Sand looks better
- Sand seems to be preferred by most fish, who like to dig in it
- Gravel is easier to clean, and in general better for many filters as it won't cause problems

Is there anything I'm missing here? Compared to everything else, the price of this stuff is cheap, cheap, cheap. So price doesn't seem to be the issue at all.

I'm looking at setting up a 55 gallon tank with some african cichlids, and our plan was gravel because it's easier to clean. Seeing the overwhelming opinion here is the opposite, I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing. Also - would sand be OK if it was just from a local beach? Same with small pebbles, would that be OK for the fish?


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## Dan L

I would be hesitant to use sand from a local beach, don't what what kind of impurities or bacteria is in the sand. Bit on the other hand, you could use that argument with anything you put in your tank.

The question is: could it be cleaned enough. I, personally wouldn't use sand from a local beach.

Pebbles and rocks could be boiled and soaked in bleach water.


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## rkings4d

I used play sand and just matched a fine pea gravel in a similair colour to put around 6"x6" on the ground under the intake, I then blended it outward into the play sand- Right under the intake I also placed a 3"x2" peice of rock.The sand that does get stirred up has all settled by the time it gets to the intake. I find when I am swimming at the lake or river there is always differternt sizes of sand from course to fine in different patterns dependent on current. It looks very natural as long as they are the same colour, or close to one another. I also used some coarse material around some of my rocks kind of randomly placed, looks great and ties the larger rocks nicely in with the sand. This has been the best option for me as I like the color of play sand better, and when I put sponge around my intake I found it was keepin it from sucking up some of the bigger particles- poo, uneaten food etc.


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## rkings4d

I have used sand from my river before, just cleaned and then boiled the stockpotwot with sand/water for like an hour. Play sand is only 4$ a bag though and pool sand not much more! I think it would be easier on you.


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## yamadog

xyzoptics said:


> So all of you seem to be set on the sand, but I'm not actually seeing much discussion on why. Below are the points I've gathered on this:
> 
> - Sand looks better
> - Sand seems to be preferred by most fish, who like to dig in it
> - Gravel is easier to clean, and in general better for many filters as it won't cause problems
> 
> I disagree with your last statement. Gravel has voids between the rocks where poop fall into. Obviously, you have to use a gravel vacuum to get it back out. Sand is far more dense and without voids. Poop can't fall into sand. If you have a decent current in the tank, poop will be sucked into the filter and you don't have to clean it at all.


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## Sparrow19

I've been running sand for 2 weeks now on my 210 gallon. So far it is VERY easy to clean. I have two built in overflows, so I have max water filter. After the first few days I did notice a little poop sitting on the sand but wasn't bad. I bought a Hydor circulation pump, placed it in the upper right back of the tank, pointed down towards the center. The flow rate is great and has helped move the waste around. I do have a little poop collecting in the back of each corner, but nothing bad at all.

When I did a slight water change, I just used a wand to stir it up good, to get it up off the sand. Let the filters run a little longer, then stopped them and vacuumed out what I could. Much less junk at the bottom than with gravel. So far, I love it..!


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## Mike_G

I'm using especially large-grained sand and I love it- I'm using 2 AC HOBs and have yet to get sand in the impellers.

It wasn't cheap though, I paid .50/lb. for it at a LFS


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## becikeja

I decided to go with sand. Pool filter sand purchased at a local pol supply store. $10 for a 50lb bag. It is beige, looks just like beach sand. Looks great in the tank. One issue I am having that I can't seem to fix. I have 2 power jets driving current in the tank. And by the sides of the tank where the hits it is lowing the sand up into sand dunes right down to the bottom of the tank. I've tried several angles, maybe I just need to reduce the current. So far I do not have any rocks in the tank, just the sand. I am hoping when I place the rocks in it will divert the current flow.


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## CrypticLifeStyle

Is there a deflector built on the powerheads? If so turn the deflector to the bottom so the flow is moving towards the surface. It'll still push the water around the tank.


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## BillD

It is interesting (to me anyway) to see the rise in populkarity of sand. In the old days, sand was tried and considered to be inferior to gravel as a substrate. Read any old primer on fish keeping and it was always recommended to use gravel. Regardless, I am not ready to give up gravel. I have had a couple of sand tanks and am not really impressed. The sand compacts, doesn't hold down new plants and whether it looks better is a matter of opinion. Digging cichlids don't have any problem with small gravel, of around 1/8" size. I wouldn't want any bigger than that. 
As for PFS, by definition it is #20 sharp sand, usually silica, although it can be any inert rock material. The key to washing any sharp sand in my experience, is to do it in small quantities. Stirring it traps fine material back into the sand, which is what it is designed to do. I found with black blasting sand that if I poured it back and forth between two containers, outside in a breeze, before washing, that much of the fine dust would blow away. If properly washed the water should be crystal clear when added to the tank.


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## Hapguy63

Sand looks more natural IMO and I have it in most or my tanks because I prefer the look. However I am not going to lie it causes major problems with most power heads and HOB filters. I have replaced the impellers for My aqua clears and penguins multiple times as sand gets in them and grinds grooves in the magnets causing them to be noisy and inefficient. I also recently pulled out my under gravel jets attached to rio 1700 power heads because I got tiered of sand breaking the impellers.

Stick with canister filters if you are going to do sand.

Also with sand you have to be carful if you use a magnet to clean algae off the glass. A small grain of sand can get caught between the magnets and scratch the **** out of the glass.

That being said I still prefer sand


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## JP_92

I switched to pool filter sand 2 months ago and it's WAY cleaner than gravel was.

I had white gravel, it would get dirty from algae and it would collect waste but now with sand I haven't had to vacuum my tank yet! I'm running a HOB Aquaclear 110 (300 GPH) and a submersible Fluval 4 Plus (264 GPH) and they seem to filter the waste great. I'm actually really surprised and am curious if any of you other sand users have to vacuum because I was under the impression I would have to but so far I haven't. Am I doing something wrong?

So far I have no cons with sand.


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## BRNZMASTER

Sand is the best decision I've ever made. Super easy to clean because the nitrates stay above the sand and are easy to vacuum up, cutting down on maintenance IMO. Obviously a con would be that you will take some sand up into the vacuum but a very small amount. Some other cons might be that your filtration will be affected because if the intake valves are to low you can suck up sand into your filter, also your output valve, depending on the water flow coming out, might rearrange the sand. I use a larger grain of sand to take away from the filter sucking it up and being moved around by the output flow. Like pops above me said, some sand is okay, but when your input is to low and constantly sucking in sand, that is not good. Let us know what you decide on.


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## becikeja

I am now going on 5 months with Pool Filter sand in the 120G tank. Great decision, I will never go back to gravel. I have good current flow, 2 power jets that are mounted relatively high, and returns from an Fx5 canister filter. No issues with pumps to date. Have not had to vacuum the bottom at all, seems everything eventually gets sucked up into the filter. The only issue is when cleaning algae off the front of the glass. Unfortunately a piece of sand got between the magnet and the glass. Not good, scratched the tank pretty bad. Luckily I noticed before I went to far.


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## Ryan_R

Like others, no cons with sand.

I went with Estes brand sand from my LFS. Not cheap, but it's *clean*. I added 10 extra pounds of it to a tank on Saturday. On a whim, I just dumped it in with the filters off. I didn't even need to rinse it. Amazing.

-Ryan


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