# I see trouble in my future... help?



## joedafrog (Sep 19, 2008)

So, I'm BRAND NEW to the hobby. I did some research before I started, but only on substrate and cycling. I'm 6 weeks into my new 55G tank. I used 3 pictus catfish to cycle it and I just put bought some central/south american cichlids in it. My only research for stocking was the 3 salesmen at the local petsmart. I was told 1 IN of fish per gallon. So, I red the tags and asked some questions and I finally bought:
3 Jack Dempsey @1.5 IN Max 7 IN 
1 Jaguar @ 4 IN MAX 12 IN
1 Green Terror @ 1.5 IN Max 6 IN
1 Red Devil @ 1.75 IN Max 6 IN
1 Pl*co @ 3 IN Max 8 IN

(the pictus are still in there and I figure I'm going to have to move them to another smaller tank. I was just gonna buy like a 20G as a "emergency" tank in case someone got sick or hurt from a fight or whatever).

In my mind that put me at 53 IN in a 55G tank. So.... I thought I would be good

HOWEVER: I found out about this site from an old friend and I really wish I would have read the forums here before I bought my fish. You guys are all so good at what you do!
Anyway according to you guys, I'm way over stocked now (by like a billion). I guess in the future I'm going to have a crowded tank? Here are some questions I was hoping you guys could answer for me:

1. How long with 35% bi-weekly H2O changes will it take before they become uncomfortable? (right now everyone seems so happy and to have a bunch of room cause they are all so small)

2. Can I even keep these fish together? (it sounds like most of you guys think that only certain kinds of cichlids should live together... mostly based on where they are from it looks like)

3. What size tank should I be looking at to house all these guys? (I wanted a bigger tank anyway. Just didn't know that I was going to have to get one so soon!)
1 pl*co (why does everyone do that BTW?)

Thank you SOOOOO much.


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## BigJagLover (Oct 25, 2006)

Well to answer ? # 3 1st a 240 gal min. But even then it depends on how long the jag and red devil tolerate tank mates.

? #2 Easy asnwer YES/ Long answer with short answer It depends on your most aggro fishes aggression.

?#1 give it a month then you'll see a lot of nitrate more then likly. so if they keep getting along you will need to bunp your Water changes up to atleast 50% a week. Thats what I have to do on my 125 and I have 4 Aqua clear 110's on it. word of advise. Keep the feedings light / only what the fish will consume in 3--5 mins. and this should help a little on the 
water changeing .


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## BigJagLover (Oct 25, 2006)

one more thing never listing to the petsmart guys. I use to be one in 96. They have to tell you whats on the tag it's in there trng. I never did and that's part of the reason I quit. I got all kinds of het from my manager and I told them to stick this job up their................ Well you get it. So no more petsmart guide to fish keeping.


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## jgentry (Jul 3, 2008)

Welcome to the hobby. This happens to a ton of people when they get there first aquarium because there are a ton of pet stores that don't know what they are doing or just don't care. The fish you have can possibly all get a long together, but not in a 55g. You could do 2 jacks in a 55g with the pictus cats, but that's it. Most of the other fish need a 75g just for the one fish. The jaguar will get huge. Your fish lengths are also off. Your Jag can get up to 16 inches, jacks 10 inches, green terror 10 inches, red devil 12 inches. Since they are all small you might be able to get by for 3-4 months but I would think you would need a minimum of a 150g 6 foot tank to keep th fish you have. Larger would be better though. The red devil will most likely be the first to start causing trouble because there are extremely aggressive and will claim the hole 55g as it's territory very shortly.

Sorry you were missinformed by the pet store. I would either take several of the fish back and make them give you your money back or start looking for a new tank now. By the time you find a new tank and get everything setup you will most likely already be having problems.

Hope this helps.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

jgentry has given sound advice. The only thing I disagree with is that you can do two JDs in a 55G tank...It can be difficult to keep a seemingly _happy_ pair in a 75G.

I wouldn't wait for the injuries and health issues to start, I'd rehome them now and start all over. :thumb:


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

> 3 Jack Dempsey @1.5 IN Max 7 IN
> 1 Jaguar @ 4 IN MAX 12 IN
> 1 Green Terror @ 1.5 IN Max 6 IN
> 1 Red Devil @ 1.75 IN Max 6 IN
> 1 Pl*co @ 3 IN Max 8 IN


These max inches are wrong! Don't listen to petsmart as far as stocking and how big the fish get that are on the descriptions because they are WRONG!!

JD's get anywhere from 8-10
Jag's max at 14-16 inches and in some cases have grown to 18!
Green Terror's get around 8-10 
Red Devil easily gets around 9-12
and Plecos get anywhere from 12-16


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

> 2. Can I even keep these fish together? (it sounds like most of you guys think that only certain kinds of cichlids should live together... mostly based on where they are from it looks like)
> 
> 3. What size tank should I be looking at to house all these guys? (I wanted a bigger tank anyway. Just didn't know that I was going to have to get one so soon!)


I am not so sure you can keep them all together without HIGH aggression! Mostly concerning the Red Devil and the Jag. I don't have any experience with any of the cichlids you have other than the JD. But the tank you will be looking at to keep all of them in would have to be at the very least a 125 or larger and even then I think you will need a bigger tank.

Just wait for others with more experience to help you! They will come along very soon!


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## clgkag (Mar 22, 2008)

I think 125 would be the ABSOLUTE minimum tank. 200 or larger would definitely be better. Those fish produce a lot of waste so I think 50% a week would be a better water change schedule or 30% twice a week. I have most of those fish plus some others in a 210 that I do about 60% a week on and it works fine.

Those fish can all be kept together, it is easier in a bigger tank. Alot depends on the individual fish. I have had some rd that were real jerks and the one I have now is almost a pussycat. Gets along with everyone as long as they don't mess with his girl :wink: The only fish I have had that was consistently a jerk is Jags. They almost always go nuts when the hit 8-9 inches, both male and female. Most people get plecos for algae cleaning. As they get larger, they don't do that so well. They are also good at cleaning up leftover food on the bottom. If you got a common they can get pretty big, mine is about 17-18 inches. There are varieties that max out at 4-5 inches and would probably wind up dead with that fish mix. Good luck :thumb:


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

Welcome aboard!

As I see it, you have two options based on your answer to the following question---are you willing AND able to upgrade to a larger tank anytime in the near future (let's say, by Christmas of this year)?

If you are *not* able/willing to upgrade, then here's what I would do:
-return the Jag and Red Devil (neither of which belongs in a 55 gal. tank long-term)
-decide between whether or not you want to keep the Green Terror OR the Jack Dempseys
(the one GT with the pleco should work---OR---the 3 JDs with the pleco should work for a while)

Just be aware that if you go with the JDs, you will almost certainly need to separate out any non-paired fish once they've matured and a pair has formed (assuming there is at least one male and one female in the mix). If you have all males, then it is likely you will only ultimately be able to keep one in there long-term. I'm not sure how JD females would get along.

BV


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## MidNightCowBoy (May 7, 2007)

joedafrog said:


> 3 Jack Dempsey @1.5 IN Max 7 IN
> 1 Jaguar @ 4 IN MAX 12 IN
> 1 Green Terror @ 1.5 IN Max 6 IN
> 1 Red Devil @ 1.75 IN Max 6 IN
> 1 Pl*co @ 3 IN Max 8 IN


Now I know you can expect poor advice at the bigbox chain stores, but that is just plain horrible.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

MidNightCowBoy said:


> joedafrog said:
> 
> 
> > 3 Jack Dempsey @1.5 IN Max 7 IN
> ...


i agree, this is ridiculous, i mean, i work at petland, and i know better then this, i dont classify myself as an un-knowledgeable person, but this is why i get treated like one until i get them talking to me. this is enough to make me quit.

you cannot trust any box store completely, they may have one or 2 smarter people in there but there is always stupid ones in the bunch as well.

this is why you do your own research before you buy the fish


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## joedafrog (Sep 19, 2008)

ok... ok... so here is my solution:
1. returned RD to store
2. need a 6 foot tank to house the jaguar once he is mature. best to start this project now as opposed to later. 
3. that leave me with the dempsey/green terror in the 55.

is that enough water for everyone?

in addition where is the best place to buy an aquarium that large for cheap? craigs list?? ebay? I got this link: www.glasscages.com the tank is pretty cheap... but i don't live in TN so i don't know how i would acually get the tank to my house in Portland. Any suggestions?

I also don't think I need to get this done by christmas of this year? will the fish really grown THAT fast? Everyone is under 2 inches right now.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

hey, definitely check out craigslist and keep a close eye on it to get an appropriate size tank.

btw, male jags can grow outrageously fast at up to 1-2" a month. so expect him to be 4-6" by Christmas.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Seems like a good short term solution. GTs and Dempseys grow pretty slow, so that should give you time too get a bigger setup and still enjoy the fish you have for the moment. At least for the GT and Dempsey. The Jag is a different ball game altogether. Like *gage* said they will grow fast! You might want to get rid of that one for now untill you have a suitable tank to house one.


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