# 75 Gallon sump Heaven / HeII Build



## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

So after building my current 40 gallon glass sump for my 185 gallon tank and buying an Aquaripure I decided to try out building a new acrylic sump which will incorporate an anaerobic filter as well as an ATF filter to remove nitrates. I know that with an anaerobic filter you need low flows and an oxygen deficient environment so my sump will have to have a way to regulate flow to anaerobic filter section.

I picked up two 75 gallon aquariums (52.5" W x 17" H x 18" D) with overflows for 100 apiece.








I am using one of the aquariums as parts, baffles.








I took off the overflow from the aquarium. It was a ton of work, I chipped the side and bottom a few times so I am going to have to weld the cracks and put a panel over the weakened areas. 
















The cracks shown above are not though the plastic thank goodness.

So here is my sump idea. The water will enter on the left and leave on the right. There is going to be a split flow between the poret foam and the ATF filter, 5% and 95% flow respectively controlled by adjusting the height of a LOC-LINE spray nozzle.

The orange, green and peach represents Poret foam, 20 PPI (4" thick), 30 PPI (2" thick) and 45 PPI (2" thick) respectively. The blue on top is going to be where my ATF filter will be. Between the orange and green section (4/5's the way up the baffle) before the water reaches the ATF section there will be an opening for water to enter the green section to enter the anaerobic filter. 








So before I begin putting baffles in place any suggestions / modifications to the sump idea?


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

First off I'd just like to say, I love watching your builds! They are detailed, entertaining, and thorough; keep it up!

I don't have any experience in flow control, nitrate filters, or anaerobic filters so I'm not much help on the sump design. My only suggestion would be to try to integrate a refugium! Also, do you really need that much mechanical? You could just replace the peach section with bio balls and be good to go.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

The King Crabb said:


> First off I'd just like to say, I love watching your builds! They are detailed, entertaining, and thorough; keep it up!


Thanks king Crabb.



The King Crabb said:


> I don't have any experience in flow control, nitrate filters, or anaerobic filters so I'm not much help on the sump design. My only suggestion would be to try to integrate a refugium! Also, do you really need that much mechanical? You could just replace the peach section with bio balls and be good to go.


Only the Orange foam will act as mechanical although it will also be biological filtration as well. The green and peach section are needed only as surface area for the anaerobic bacteria to grow on. With tons of surface area and being built inline and downstream of the aerobic bacteria section the water should be really low in Oxygen before it hits the green foam. Then with a really low flow rate the bacteria will use up the oxygen and make a perfect environment for the anaerobic. I'm still up in the air as to if I should buy the 45 PPI or just use the 30 PPI. I'm wondering if the 45 PPI might clog easily and create to much of a pressure drop, although it would have tons of surface area for the bacteria to grow on. Bio balls are better utilized in a wet/dry filter then being totally submerged IMHO since don't have a much surface area as the foam but the good thing is they don't clog very easily.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

That's true about bio balls, but that's just because of the oxygen. They're mostly used in wet/drys because of the high surface area for bacteria to grow on, the fact that oxygen is abundant merely helps the bacterial growth. I'd expect them to work just as well for surface area growth submerged as they would above the surface but it's your call.

I'd stick with the 30 PPI. IME the lower the ppi the easier it is to maintain and the better the water flow.

I'm thinking I may be envisioning the sump wrong, nothing against your drawings. I think it's more to the fact that I'm unfamiliar with the ATF filters. I'm picturing it like this:








Pink tube is input
Green is 20 PPI
Yellow is 30 PPI
Blue is 45 PPI (or maybe another 30 PPI, whatever you decide)
Purple is the ATF filter (white hole is input, i think that's where you had it)
Orange is output

That's how I'm envisioning your sump, correct me if I'm wrong and I'm sorry if I got something totally different.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

The King Crabb said:


> That's how I'm envisioning your sump, correct me if I'm wrong and I'm sorry if I got something totally different.


King Crabb this is more of how I was planning on designing the sump. I took me a while to figure out exactly how I want it but here it is.








I'm just not sure if I need to add a refugium after the filtration. Your guys thoughts on the design?


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Nice model! :thumb:

I like the look of the sump, should be very efficient. I definitely wouldn't say the refugium is necessary, but I like them a lot. You've already got the nitrate filter in there so any plants in the refugium lose a lot of their benefit. I'd still put it on simply for fry space :thumb:


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

The King Crabb said:


> Nice model! :thumb:
> 
> I like the look of the sump, should be very efficient. I definitely wouldn't say the refugium is necessary, but I like them a lot. You've already got the nitrate filter in there so any plants in the refugium lose a lot of their benefit. I'd still put it on simply for fry space :thumb:


How would one put a refugium into my design?


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm not really sure how the ATF filters work, but I'm assuming it just flows off the edge into the largest section where the return goes out? I'd just pop in another wall and slide over the pumps. I'd add some mesh on top of the wall between the refugium and pumps just in case any fry/ plant clippings slide over - you don't want to clog the pumps.

I know my design was a little off, but you get the jist of it from this idea, the only section that really gets any change to it is the largest one where the ATF filter output goes.










For any lighting needed you can hang a CFL bulb above the refugium seciton, 1 CFL will light up the section nicely.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

So I have been a little busy but here is how far I have gotten on the new sump design. It doesn't look professional due to the fact that I ripped up two tanks to build one sump.








This picture shows the bypass and the horizontal ATF (I know they are not as effective as the vertical ones). The by-pass can be removed and the black baffle/weer in the by-pass allows me to regulate the amount of flow that doesn't go though the foam (I will have a small piece of foam in the bypass to do mechanical filtration).
The black ramp on the left allows debris to collect in the front so I don't have to vacuum the whole first chamber. Below the black ramp is where the two holes were in the pictures above.


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

OK, coming from someone who HAS dabbled in acrylic, umm, that looks FANTASTIC.

Very neat work, nice 90 corners on everything, looks professionally done to me.

I simply put a bulkhead in a preexisting 60 and it looks like my 9 year old applied the solvent.

Please lie to me and tell me that you work with acylic on a daily basis. Please.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Looks great! :thumb: I see you incorporated the refugium!


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

So I did a little more work on the sump and figured I would share some pictures. I will be putting a lot more foam into the sump. Just had a few pieces laying around for the picture.








A close up shot








I have built 4 of the baffles to be removable so I can change my design around as I see fit. This is everything taken off of the sump. Sprite can for size comparison.








A few close ups:
















The black top goes on and fits in nicely then the top horizontal ATF filter fits on top of that.


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## Clink51 (Aug 4, 2011)

this looks really nice, but i sstill dont understand what and how the atf filter is or does...


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

Clink51 said:


> this looks really nice, but i still donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t understand what and how the ATF filter is or does...


An ATF filter is an Algae Turff Filter. 
Calebjimz http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=235523 built a vertical filter and they are about 2x as efficient as a horizontal filter since you can put light on both sizes of the mesh. I would have done a vertical filter one but couldn't work it into my design as nicely.

There is a bunch more information on this site: http://www.aquariumdomain.com/viewArticle.php?article_id=19

They are used to remove, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrates from your system. They can also be used to remove some of the heavy metals found in the water.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

An ATF is an algae scrubber? Wow all this time I thought it was some fancy new idea that was sweeping the nation, now I actually know what we're talking about! :lol:

Sump is really looking good :thumb: Let me know how that horizontal scrubber goes!

Quick question on algae scrubbers (or ATF filters as I know now :lol: ), if you don't mind. Does the actually scrubber (mesh) have to be square? thinking of building one for a 29G tank (TONS of brown algae, can't even tell what color the rocks are by the end of the week) and the idea of a more elongated one seems a better one to me.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

The King Crabb said:


> An ATF is an algae scrubber? Wow all this time I thought it was some fancy new idea that was sweeping the nation, now I actually know what we're talking about! :lol:
> 
> Sump is really looking good :thumb: Let me know how that horizontal scrubber goes!
> 
> Quick question on algae scrubbers (or ATF filters as I know now :lol: ), if you don't mind. Does the actually scrubber (mesh) have to be square? thinking of building one for a 29G tank (TONS of brown algae, can't even tell what color the rocks are by the end of the week) and the idea of a more elongated one seems a better one to me.


Wow sounds like you have a bad nitrate problem which is what is causing the algae problem. Yes the mesh can be any shape you want it to be. The algae filter will help with your nitrates and your algae in the tank. Another thing you can do is take a clipping from a vine house plant and put it in your tank just make sure it gets ample light. Overtime the roots will grow and flourish absorbing the nitrates. I have a 55 gallon tank with over 70 cichlids around 1 to 1.5 inches in lenght and the tank has zero nitrates 3 weeks after cleaning it while feeding at least twice a day. I do have to top it off once in a while though. So I probably only clean the tank about every month. In my 185 gallon I'm also going to have house plants growing out of the tank to absorb nitrates.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm not entirely sure it's nitrates, this time of year the tank gets a fairly decent amount of sunlight. Strange thing is, the algae takes a while to start back up; but when it does it basically grows at lighting speeds! I'm actually thinking it's something to do with the CFL lighting, since any part of a rock facing down or in "shade" is clean and clear, thought the ATF would still help though!


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

Well I have been a busy busy bee and have completed my sump. I am now building an integrated removable light for my ATF. The just started light fixture is sitting on my Algae Turf filter, when finished it will be a few inches higher. 
















The higher section (on right side) around where the pumps are going to go I made removable as well.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

This sump is getting more enviable by the post! Amazing work! :thumb:


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

The King Crabb said:


> This sump is getting more enviable by the post! Amazing work! :thumb:


Thanks King Crabb


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

So I finished the light for the sump and put a cover on it. All that's left is to cut out the openings for the sump inlet and outlet but I can't do that until I replace this with my current sump.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Looks great! opcorn:


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## mokujin22 (Jan 19, 2010)

You really have done an unbelievable job on that sump. You've got some serious acrylic skills. 

Never seen an algae turf filter before - I'm excited to see how it works.

I have tried to work with coil denitrators before though (in my reefing days). It was all about super slow flow rate with absolutely *no* oxygen getting into the system. How much flow do you think you'll get through the weir system and how does flow get regulated?


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## jchild40 (Mar 20, 2010)

Wow, cool. I'd like to see pics of the algae turf.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

mokujin22 said:


> You really have done an unbelievable job on that sump. You've got some serious acrylic skills.


Thanks! I blame it all on being a perfectionist, :lol: and maybe part because I use to work for a company that designed and built prototype toys.



mokujin22 said:


> I have tried to work with coil denitrators before though (in my reefing days). It was all about super slow flow rate with absolutely *no* oxygen getting into the system. How much flow do you think you'll get through the weir system and how does flow get regulated?


I plan on controlling flow by adjusting the height of the LOC-LINE http://www.locline.com/.



jchild40 said:


> Wow, cool. I'd like to see pics of the algae turf.


I'll post some pictures up after it's been running for a month or two. I don't expect detictable levels of nitrate for quite some time in my :fish: tank.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

So yesterday when I put this the sump under my tank and was hooking up the pumps I spilled some water around the side of the tank and it went under the sump and the stand. Bear in mind it's a wood stand. So I put some isopropyl alcohol to help suck up the water. And today I find all of this crazing right under the tank where I put the alcohol. Here is a picture. I do not feel any crazing cracks from inside the tank so they are not though wall. So do i need to repair the the sump by adding a reinforcement strip on the inside of the crazing cracks or can I leave it? I do not know if it will worsen. God it seems as if every step I take forward I take two back. What should I do? For a size comparison the large crazing is around 8" long. I wish I knew that Isopropyl alcohol caused crazing.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

Well I finished the sump and fixed the crazing cracks. Here it is


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

Very nice job on the sump 8)


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

My envy for this sump is unrivaled! =D>


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## chadott (Mar 4, 2012)

The King Crabb said:


> My envy for this sump is unrivaled! =D>


I don't know about "unrivaled!" :lol:

Maybe this was discussed earlier....I came here from the "Heaven & ****" thread, which I spent all night reading! (COOL TANK, btw :thumb: ) But what do people use for the "screens" on these ATS filters? I have a huge sump, and really want to incorporate this into the fish room. But I just don't know what to use for the screen.

Thanks!


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

chadott said:


> The King Crabb said:
> 
> 
> > My envy for this sump is unrivaled! =D>
> ...


Chadott they are Plastic Needlepoint Canvas Sheets ( you can find them at any hobby store) and from what I have read you really need to ruff them up for the algae to stick. Usually they are rugged up by dragging a hole saw across the plastic. I have to clean mine off every few days.

Vertical ones are so much more efficient then horizontal ones. Here is a build of a vertical filter. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f20/algae-turf-scrubber-ats-diy-build-135180.html


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

Chadott,

I found some more information on Algae Turff Scrubbers.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=235523

and the directions of how to set it up.
http://www.aquariumdomain.com/viewArticle.php?article_id=19

Hope this helps. :thumb:


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## chadott (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks!

btw, how's that new baby boy treating you? have you slept in the last two months??


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## chadott (Mar 4, 2012)

Again, thanks! After reading the articles, the second link you put in your post is MUCH more helpful than the first.

From the looks of things, you have been running one of these for a while, and I know you have plants in the tank. Do you think that running a algae "filter" like this takes enough nutrients out of the system that it discourages plant growth?

I am setting this up on a central sump that will run both a 75 AND a 55 gallon aquarium. One of the tanks will most likely be planted (I'm in the process of setting them up again) and I am kind of afraid that this will detract from the plants. My hope is to gain as much growth on my plants as I possibly can as quickly as possible. I was even debating using my sump as a "refugium" with a lot of plants in it. FYI...my "sump" is a very large wooden box that is lined with plastic. NOT a fancy acrylic sump like the beautiful one you built! It isn't pretty, and it isn't really for show. But it is (well, will be) very functional once I get all the elements in place!

sorry for the long response! I appreciate your input in this a ton!! It was pretty interesting reading through this whole "heaven & ****" build threads. I just don't have the patience you do to build the background you did. Or the patience (or know how) to build the acrylic sump you did. Those were both pretty impressive projects!


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

chadott said:


> Thanks!
> btw, how's that new baby boy treating you? have you slept in the last two months??


He has been great, he is smiling with facial expressions and has no problem holding his head up. I have to admit the first week I was ready to throw in the towel as there were times that were pretty stressful. Things are settling in now and most nights he sleeps between 3 - 4 hours at a time.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

chadott said:


> From the looks of things, you have been running one of these for a while, and I know you have plants in the tank. Do you think that running an algae "filter" like this takes enough nutrients out of the system that it discourages plant growth?


I have not noticed any impact to the growth of my plants while using the filter. My plants seem to be growing fast especially the vals. They produce oxygen bubbles all day long and have spread throughout my tank within the past few months. Once I started adding trace minerals to my tank I noticed the algae grew a bit quicker in the Algae Turf Filter (ATF).

A few things to consider:
Since I have been running the ATF from the start I don't know if my plants would grow faster if I had it off.

My ATF is downstream of part of my biomedia making it the last part of my sumpÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s filtration system, running parallel with my nitrate filter. Next time I see my nitrates start to climb I will test my nitrate filter to see how much it is actually reducing the nitrates in my tank. The highest my tank has been was 20 PPM after a 2 month run without a water change. I do have as low drip fill system on my tank. < 1 gallon a day to prevent my sump from going dry due to evaporation and maybe Ã‚Â½ gallon or less goes to the drain so I canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t say that I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t do water changes but on my system with 185 + ~60 gallons of water in my 75 gallon sump, total system water 245 gallons I probably remove 3 Ã¢â‚¬â€œ 4 gallons a week.

I also currently do not have CO2 injection which will help the plants grow quicker and fight off algae growth so I will report back once I have it set up for a few weeks any changes to plant growth or algae growth.


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## chadott (Mar 4, 2012)

Again, thanks for the info. After I posted, I thought about the fact that you probably had that running before you added the plants! So I didn't know if you would have anything to compare it to. Glad to hear the Val is doing well and spreading.

And glad to hear you can get a little sleep at night! At least you have something cool to look at while you rock baby boy back to sleep in the middle of the night!


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