# Thought it was ich but now I'm stumped



## pievel78 (Aug 27, 2014)

Hi all,

After about 10 yrs out of the hobby I started with cichlids again. I have a 55g with the following:
6 red zebras
8 yellow labs
7 saulosi
3 African cats

All but the one cat and 1 lab are juveniles.

I recently brought in some plants and I think that's where my problems started.
My old cat fish developed the typical signs of ich (tiny white dots in gill area and on body) . None of the others show any signs. I I got Kordon's Ich Attack and started treating according to instructions. Also raised the temp to 82/84 and added 1 tbs salt per 5g. Added the salt over 2 days.

I have been treating for the past 9 days and don't see any improvement in thecat. Still has white tiny dots. Not many but they are there. Meanwhile, I think some of my others have come down with bloat. Hiding, spitting food, sunk in stomach, white stringy feces. Lost the smallest saulosi and 1 zebra. Now no don't know what to do.

I just did a 25% water change to reduce salt, did not feed but treated with Ich Attack.

Here are the other parameters:
Ammonia 0
Ph 7.8/8.2
Nitrite 0
Nitrates between 10/20mg
Temp 82
Food = omega One flakes
Water treated with Aqua safe
Water changes regularly weekly at 25%

Should I continue with the Ich Attack or could that be something else? On top I don't have clout and it looks like Mardel is discontinuing. Arrrrrgghh. I need help.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

well it could be ich AND bloat, unfortunately. Bloat will kill them faster than ich so we should focus on that, first. 
Get something that treats bloat--API general cure--Parasite Guard--whatever your local pet store has, you want to get the treatment going ASAP. 
Do a large partial water change of 50% and siphon the gravel thoroughly. Make sure you use a good quality dechlorinator. 
Do another large partial water change of 50% and siphon the gravel. The water changes will help to remove some of the ich parasites. These two water changes should take place within a few hours of each other, the second just prior to adding the med for bloat. 
Treat the tank for bloat following package directions. 
Check out the ich article about treating ich with salt. In order for salt to work, (and it does work on ich) you need to use a lot of it. 4-5 tablespoons per five gallons, if you're using it without heat and 2-3 tablespoons per five gallons if used with heat. (In both cases: dissolve salt first and add gradually over several hours time. 
You CAN simultaneously treat for ick and bloat, (using the salt and the bloat med), but be careful. Your fish are stressed, from the illnesses, and anytime a fish is stressed a medication can be too much for them. Make sure to watch your fish closely for any signs of med-caused stress. Ideally if you can get them through the bloat then you can focus on ich but it's a matter of how bad the ich is whether you decide to treat both at once.

Please read the ich article for additional important info on treating ich. Of note: if you choose to treat with salt and the bloat med simultaneously then DO NOT raise the heat. And keep in mind: the ich parasite spends most of it's life in your tank, not just on your fish, but in the water, the gravel, on the plants--so any opportunity for water changes/gravel siphonings:do it! You'll be removing the pests--not a cure on it's own but definitely helpful.

And welcome back to fish! A bit of a rough start but things should turn around for you and hopefully you won't lose any more fish

Robin


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## pievel78 (Aug 27, 2014)

Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately i will be traveling today so won't be able to start til tomorrow. I'll see if i can order meds online and overnight. I have been continuing with the Ich Attack. The cat only has a few white dots, nothing major and none of the others show as of yet so i think i will lower the temp discontinue the ich med, start treating for bloat. If i don't treat for the ich with salt at teh same time, what are the changes that they bloat again when i use high dosage of salt like that and they are already stressed? Would it be better to do both?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> Would it be better to do both?


That's the tricky question. Very much depends on how otherwise healthy your fish seem. The increased water changes will help to reduce the overall numbers of the ich in the tank so that may buy some time to get rid of the bloat. I would definitely focus on treatment for bloat as your #1 priority and then perhaps if you want to slowly increase the salt over a few days--while still treating the fish for bloat--watching your fish closely as you do, that could be the way to go.

If the bloat med instructs to do a water change and then re-treat, AND you're also doing the salt: just make sure to re-add the proper salt-per-gallon for the water you remove. Dissolve it first but no need to add gradually as at this point you're just maintaining the existing salt levels.

And the salt is sodium chloride, (regular table salt without additives), not to be confused with 'cichlid salts' or epsom salt

Robin


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## pievel78 (Aug 27, 2014)

Ok, i ordered metronidazole and parasite guard for overnight delivery tomorrow. For the salt, i used aquarium salt the first time around, i am assuming that is the same as epsom and won't work? Can i use the usual Morton i use for cooking?

I will also lower the temp down to 78 over night, hopefully that will work as it has been really hot here and our living room gets hot.

On the ich note, how effective are UV sterilizers? I currently am running an HOB with skimmer and was thinking of adding one to the tank.

I have one female saulosi that is still holding. I was going to strip her but i think it is probably better to let her spit in the tank with everything going on


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Pretty sure Aquarium salt is sodium chloride. A cheaper alternative is pickling or kosher salt that you can buy at the grocery store. Morton is ok but ideally you don't want salt that has any additives, check the label. 
I don't know about the UV sterilizers and ich--perhaps someone else can answer that.

Robin


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

In theory, a UV sterilizer should prevent ich from spreading. Exactly how well it works in practice probably depends on how many gallons per hour the sterilizer can sterilize.


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## pievel78 (Aug 27, 2014)

Update: after 48 hours I lost one lab, rest are holding up but still won't eat. Performed 25% water change tonight and retreated with parasite guard. Also going to start adding 4.5 tbl/5g spoons of aquarium salt over the next day or so. I'm not raising the temp. Will post update.


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## pievel78 (Aug 27, 2014)

Bad news.... I added 4.5 tbl/5g of aquarium salt over the course of 24 hours. Overnight all of my cats and several others developed cloudy and enlarged eyes. Lost one cat and one lab. Could the salt cause this? I added melafix and need to retreat with parasite guard so need to do a 25%.water change. Should I reduce the salt content? If so how fast? Please help


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Sorry to hear about the cats. The timing of the deaths and eye problems makes the salt suspect however when fish are already stressed then they are more susceptible to having an adverse reaction to meds, (in this case salt) or to develop other issues --period-- regardless of meds. I would keep the salt level closer to 2 tablespoons per five and just focus on water changes and dealing with the bloat with the parasite guard.
Do a 50% water change and re-treat with the parasite guard as directed.

Let me know how it goes

Robin


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