# 75 Gallon Male Jack Dempsey Tankmates?



## scarhbar

The tank is 75 gallons, and it has an FX5 filter on it. I do pretty good sized water changes. The Jack Dempsey is about 4.5"-5". I'm looking for any other tankmates for him before he gets to large and aggressive.

Oscars? Many people say that an Oscar and JD COULD work in a 75 gallon, but i'm a little wary on this. There is an Oscar with him in the tank already, but I was planning on selling him. Good idea, or not?

Green Terrors? I have a Green Terror in the tank with him now too. The GT is definitely the less dominate fish in the tank, and gets his fins nipped more often. Not sure if that'd change as he grew.

Other than that, I am not sure! Please help!


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## cage623

I assume you are talking about cichlid tankmates?

Most would support your idea to sell the oscar. General consensus it that Oscars can live in a 75 minimum if they are the only cichlid. So I would look into getting it a new home.

The GT could work but many feel that GT's get most aggressive as they are older and larger and this can often occur virtually over night. So your concerns with the dominance in the tank changing are accurate.

Personally I would look into a little smaller cichlids as tankmates. Things like firemouth, cons, sajica, cutteri, HRP, or maybe even a salvini. These are just some thoughts that will make the tank less of a space issue as everything becomes fully grow out.

Finally you could consider just getting it a mate. A 75 gallon could work to get it a partner but I didn't know if that is something you were interested in.

Those are just some ideas to look into. But overall you are right to want to get this figured out before it gets too large and then it is harder to find compatible tankmates.

-Cage


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## Steffano2

+1 on Cage. I'll add you could even do a Heros of some type too. I know they get big but are rather slow growers and not that aggressive too.

1. Jack
2. Firemouth
3. Heros sp.

That would be a good looking tank, one of each of course.


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## smitty

There are many fish that you can try as long as they get along. Firemouths, Salvinis, Convicts, Oscar, Green Terror, etc. It is really going to be trial and error. Also don't forget red devils.


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## scarhbar

cage623 said:


> I assume you are talking about cichlid tankmates?
> 
> Most would support your idea to sell the oscar. General consensus it that Oscars can live in a 75 minimum if they are the only cichlid. So I would look into getting it a new home.
> 
> The GT could work but many feel that GT's get most aggressive as they are older and larger and this can often occur virtually over night. So your concerns with the dominance in the tank changing are accurate.
> 
> Personally I would look into a little smaller cichlids as tankmates. Things like firemouth, cons, sajica, cutteri, HRP, or maybe even a salvini. These are just some thoughts that will make the tank less of a space issue as everything becomes fully grow out.
> 
> Finally you could consider just getting it a mate. A 75 gallon could work to get it a partner but I didn't know if that is something you were interested in.
> 
> Those are just some ideas to look into. But overall you are right to want to get this figured out before it gets too large and then it is harder to find compatible tankmates.
> 
> -Cage


Ah! Well I've been thinking that a Firemouth would be pretty cool! The ones around here are pretty small though :/ as for non tankmates, do you think some buenos aires tetras (3-4") and some pictus would be ok?


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## ahud

Is this a different tank or are you skipping discus?

As others have said I would go with something smaller.


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## scarhbar

Steffano2 said:


> +1 on Cage. I'll add you could even do a Heros of some type too. I know they get big but are rather slow growers and not that aggressive too.
> 
> 1. Jack
> 2. Firemouth
> 3. Heros sp.
> 
> That would be a good looking tank, one of each of course.


Ya, i've had heros before. They are cool, but like you mentioned, pretty slow growing :/ see my reply to cage, and tell me what you think?


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## cage623

> Ah! Well I've been thinking that a Firemouth would be pretty cool! The ones around here are pretty small though :/ as for non tankmates, do you think some buenos aires tetras (3-4") and some pictus would be ok?


I personally don't have experience with Buenos Aires Tetras but they are a common dither fish on forums like this. They are nice because they are very active and get to be big enough you don't really need to worry too much about them becoming snacks.

I have had a pictus in the past and I have really liked it. They get to be a good 10" but I still think that would be doable in this tank. They are also very active and unlike some catfish (which will hide all day and only come out at night), pictus seem to be on crack and are always moving.

Honestly if you could find the right size Firemouth (I would say 3.5 to 4 in.) you could still do it with your JD and the pictus and say 6 BA tetras. Just some food for thought.

-Cage


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## scarhbar

ahud said:


> Is this a different tank or are you skipping discus?
> 
> As others have said I would go with something smaller.


Hey Ahud! Ya, I don't think Discus are very ideal for me at the moment. Plus, I already have a Jack Dempsey  do you think a Firemouth with some Bueons Aires and Pictus would be cool?


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## Steffano2

I've kept Buenos Aires Tetras before, the females are always fighting/picking on the males and frankly their colors are sorta boring. They are aggressive for a tetra too, which isn't a bad thing considering their tank mates.

You may enjoy the larger rainbow fish they add color and grow way to big for the Dempsey to eat. Even some large Gouramies may work.

May I ask why you want to have "dithers"? I would think they will be utilizing tank space that your cichlids will need?

Pictus cats will work again there are other catfish you could us too.

I'd be a tad leery of adding a 'Red Devil' they really live up to their name once they mature IMO.

Even a few Jewels would work in your tank say if you did Salvini, JD, and Jewels. Just some food for thought.


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## scarhbar

cage623 said:


> Ah! Well I've been thinking that a Firemouth would be pretty cool! The ones around here are pretty small though :/ as for non tankmates, do you think some buenos aires tetras (3-4") and some pictus would be ok?
> 
> 
> 
> I personally don't have experience with Buenos Aires Tetras but they are a common dither fish on forums like this. They are nice because they are very active and get to be big enough you don't really need to worry too much about them becoming snacks.
> 
> I have had a pictus in the past and I have really liked it. They get to be a good 10" but I still think that would be doable in this tank. They are also very active and unlike some catfish (which will hide all day and only come out at night), pictus seem to be on crack and are always moving.
> 
> Honestly if you could find the right size Firemouth (I would say 3.5 to 4 in.) you could still do it with your JD and the pictus and say 6 BA tetras. Just some food for thought.
> 
> -Cage
Click to expand...

ha, how many pictus?


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## scarhbar

Steffano2 said:


> I've kept Buenos Aires Tetras before, the females are always fighting/picking on the males and frankly their colors are sorta boring. They are aggressive for a tetra too, which isn't a bad thing considering their tank mates.
> 
> You may enjoy the larger rainbow fish they add color and grow way to big for the Dempsey to eat. Even some large Gouramies may work.
> 
> May I ask why you want to have "dithers"? I would think they will be utilizing tank space that your cichlids will need?
> 
> Pictus cats will work again there are other catfish you could us too.
> 
> I'd be a tad leery of adding a 'Red Devil' they really live up to their name once they mature IMO.
> 
> Even a few Jewels would work in your tank say if you did Salvini, JD, and Jewels. Just some food for thought.


I like the contrast between lots of small fish, and one bigger bigger fish  Not exactly dithers, but hey I'll like it!

and as for the Pictus, I don't really see any other catfish I'd like. The tank has some hardy plants, so plecos would eat them. That's why i like pictus  I think I'm also doing a Firemouth too


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## Steffano2

scarhbar said:


> Steffano2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've kept Buenos Aires Tetras before, the females are always fighting/picking on the males and frankly their colors are sorta boring. They are aggressive for a tetra too, which isn't a bad thing considering their tank mates.
> 
> You may enjoy the larger rainbow fish they add color and grow way to big for the Dempsey to eat. Even some large Gouramies may work.
> 
> May I ask why you want to have "dithers"? I would think they will be utilizing tank space that your cichlids will need?
> 
> Pictus cats will work again there are other catfish you could us too.
> 
> I'd be a tad leery of adding a 'Red Devil' they really live up to their name once they mature IMO.
> 
> Even a few Jewels would work in your tank say if you did Salvini, JD, and Jewels. Just some food for thought.
> 
> 
> 
> I like the contrast between lots of small fish, and one bigger bigger fish  Not exactly dithers, but hey I'll like it!
> 
> and as for the Pictus, I don't really see any other catfish I'd like. The tank has some hardy plants, so plecos would eat them. That's why i like pictus  I think I'm also doing a Firemouth too
Click to expand...

You're going to have a great tank, let us know the final stocking list.


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## cage623

Honestly, I would just do the one pictus. As I said they get to be large enough and are very active on their own. Plus one should be all you need to clean up extra food in a tank this large.

-Cage


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## CjCichlid

I agree pretty much with everything that cage as said thus far. Buenos Aires Tetras will work well as dithers, or simply just a smaller fish. I have 9x in my 135gal and they are doing very well. I think they have great colors, as mine have bright red fins and a greenish body. They are very active and actually quite aggressive for a Tetra so be sure you get a decent sized shoal (at least 6).

EDIT: If you have live plants BA Tetras will NOT work well as they are known plant eaters! Sorry, I completely spaced that when I was originally typing this! You may want to consider something like Colombian Tetras, Congo Tetras, Giant Danios, or even Rainbows.

Pictus catfish are naturally a shoaling species as well but will do OK by themselves. You would either want just 1 or 3+, as if you just have 2 they tend to pick on eachother. As for Plecos, the majority should not eat your plants. I think a Bristlenose Pleco would do well, and will actually clean algae off the leaves of your plants.

As for other cichlids, I would definitely NOT add a Oscar or GT. A Firemouth should be just fine though. I would try and find one that is close to the size of your JD already or it might get picked on quite a bit. You may also want to re-arrange the tank a bit before adding the new additions to help curve aggression from your JD.

Good luck!


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## jd22

I have a pretty comparable footprint and what seems like similar taste in fish. Here is what I have 1 3" GT 1 1.5" -2 " Firemouth and 1 2.5"- 3"Salvini 6 Giant Danios and 1 5-6" Sen. Bichir.

I really like the Danios as a dither in the tank they are really fast and so far have avoided capture, with all the predators in the tank they really school together and will give the look I think you are going for. As far as aggression, everyone leaves the Bichir alone, the Salvini and GT have started to square off a little when it comes to territory and the Firemouth pretty much goes unnoticed.

Just my experience so far.


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## scarhbar

cage623 said:


> Honestly, I would just do the one pictus. As I said they get to be large enough and are very active on their own. Plus one should be all you need to clean up extra food in a tank this large.
> 
> -Cage


I heard they like to shoal though? Should I just stick with 1 still?


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## scarhbar

CjCichlid said:


> I agree pretty much with everything that cage as said thus far. Buenos Aires Tetras will work well as dithers, or simply just a smaller fish. I have 9x in my 135gal and they are doing very well. I think they have great colors, as mine have bright red fins and a greenish body. They are very active and actually quite aggressive for a Tetra so be sure you get a decent sized shoal (at least 6).
> 
> EDIT: If you have live plants BA Tetras will NOT work well as they are known plant eaters! Sorry, I completely spaced that when I was originally typing this! You may want to consider something like Colombian Tetras, Congo Tetras, Giant Danios, or even Rainbows.
> 
> Pictus catfish are naturally a shoaling species as well but will do OK by themselves. You would either want just 1 or 3+, as if you just have 2 they tend to pick on eachother. As for Plecos, the majority should not eat your plants. I think a Bristlenose Pleco would do well, and will actually clean algae off the leaves of your plants.
> 
> As for other cichlids, I would definitely NOT add a Oscar or GT. A Firemouth should be just fine though. I would try and find one that is close to the size of your JD already or it might get picked on quite a bit. You may also want to re-arrange the tank a bit before adding the new additions to help curve aggression from your JD.
> 
> Good luck!


Honestly, the tank will have a lot of plants, so I don't see the plants being a HUGE issue  I will have to see though!

As for the pictus, if they like to shoal, I think it would be a little stressful to keep one by itself :/ if they do fine singularily, I would get one, but if not, could you suggest another American Catfish that gets to a medium size? Cories are way too small, I do not like Bristlenose or Plecos right now, and if Pictus like to shoal, that isn't much room :/

Thanks!


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## scarhbar

jd22 said:


> I have a pretty comparable footprint and what seems like similar taste in fish. Here is what I have 1 3" GT 1 1.5" -2 " Firemouth and 1 2.5"- 3"Salvini 6 Giant Danios and 1 5-6" Sen. Bichir.
> 
> I really like the Danios as a dither in the tank they are really fast and so far have avoided capture, with all the predators in the tank they really school together and will give the look I think you are going for. As far as aggression, everyone leaves the Bichir alone, the Salvini and GT have started to square off a little when it comes to territory and the Firemouth pretty much goes unnoticed.
> 
> Just my experience so far.


Good info! Thanks! I have a Bichir in another tank, so he could be a potential tank mate


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## Red Triangle

I would get a few cichlids to go with him in such a big tank. In my old 55 gal as a teenager I had 7-8 one inch long cichlids, a leperinus, pleco, and a catfish; they all grew to be 6-8" longs, and I never had a fish get beat up bad enough to have to take them out of the tank for the 2-3 years I had the fish.

In a 75 gallon tanks you would be perfectly fine with giving your Dempsey a few sparring partners to mingle with. I would add cichlids that matched him some what, so I'd go with Texes cichlid, green terror cichlid, managuense cichlid, and you could even add a mild tempered African cichlid to the tank like a Frontosa. Of course, I'd add a pleco and cat fish for cleaning purposes.


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## scarhbar

Red Triangle said:


> I would get a few cichlids to go with him in such a big tank. In my old 55 gal as a teenager I had 7-8 one inch long cichlids, a leperinus, pleco, and a catfish; they all grew to be 6-8" longs, and I never had a fish get beat up bad enough to have to take them out of the tank for the 2-3 years I had the fish.
> 
> In a 75 gallon tanks you would be perfectly fine with giving your Dempsey a few sparring partners to mingle with. I would add cichlids that matched him some what, so I'd go with Texes cichlid, green terror cichlid, managuense cichlid, and you could even add a mild tempered African cichlid to the tank like a Frontosa. Of course, I'd add a pleco and cat fish for cleaning purposes.


This tank is planted. 1.) Plecos wont work 2.) Frontosas definitely wouldn't work, cuz I want South/Central Americas 3.) Multiple large cichlids would probably tear up all of them. If I just get one large one, I think he'd leave them alone. I've had a 125 full of cichlids, but I'm leaning away from cichlid communities


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## scarhbar

I think my final stock list might just stick at:

-1 Jack Dempsey
-1 Firemouth
-8 Buenos Aires Tetras
-4 Pictus

I get a little move movement at the top, middle, and bottom of the tank with this setup!  Plus, there are a large contrast of colors. Shiny Blue/Greens with the JD, Pale Blue and Bright Red with the Firemouth, Rust Red/Black with the Buenos Aires, and Shiny Silver with Black spots on the Pictus, all against black gravel/background and bright green plants 

And the sizes/shapes are all different too! I'm sorta OCD with my fish communities, so this is definitely my kind of tank


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## Red Triangle

They tear each other up in a 75 gal? You must not have enough caves made for multiple sections to be blocked off. I guess it's cool to have a variety of fish, but I just find it weird that people add tetra's and other non-aggro fish to a what is basically a cichlid tank (one cichlid that rules the tank makes it a cichlid tank). Cichlids like to be in natural pecking orders, and spar with each other; it's what they do in the wild..


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## ahud

Why would fish have a pecking order in the wild lol? I have never read or heard about that.


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## sjwrx

Red Triangle said:


> They tear each other up in a 75 gal? You must not have enough caves made for multiple sections to be blocked off. I guess it's cool to have a variety of fish, but I just find it weird that people add tetra's and other non-aggro fish to a what is basically a cichlid tank (one cichlid that rules the tank makes it a cichlid tank). Cichlids like to be in natural pecking orders, and spar with each other; it's what they do in the wild..


a 75g is not that large of a tank, the cichlids you mentioned grow quite large espcially if they are males. I've owned a Green Texas, that grew to about 11" that was beastly and would kill and attack anything in a 180, heavily wooded.

Having multiple cichlids is fine, with the right mix and an ideal tank size not just tossing in ones that appeal to you. Tetras and non aggressive fish are used as ditchers to Spread aggression from other tankmates.


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## dsouthworth

I'm setting up a 140g right now. i'll be stocking within the next week. My stock list will consist of a single JD. Then various quantities of Silver dollars, salvini, and firemouths.


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## cage623

I have always just kept just one pictus and they have always done very good in my cichlid community tanks.

I know you could do more but with this being a 75 gallon tank I don't know that I would stress the bioload that much by adding in 3 or more of them. Plus once they got to be full grown that would really take up a lot of the space in the lower level of the tank since they get to be around 10" and are always on the move. I would think it would look like they were always pumping into each other. But that is just my $.02 on the matter.

-Cage


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## scarhbar

cage623 said:


> I have always just kept just one pictus and they have always done very good in my cichlid community tanks.
> 
> I know you could do more but with this being a 75 gallon tank I don't know that I would stress the bioload that much by adding in 3 or more of them. Plus once they got to be full grown that would really take up a lot of the space in the lower level of the tank since they get to be around 10" and are always on the move. I would think it would look like they were always pumping into each other. But that is just my $.02 on the matter.
> 
> -Cage


Well, i've read a few places that the polka dot pictus stay around 6", while the 4 line pictus are the ones that get around 10". Not sure if that's true, but I don't think Pictus will work either way :/

However, I think I could add more Buenos Aires to make a large school, and then add a Senegal Bichir I have, to this tank. I think that could work  cuz the Bichir keeps eatin my Rams in the other tank


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## Steffano2

scarhbar said:


> the Bichir keeps eatin my Rams in the other tank


That's one expensive feeder fish in my opinion! :-?


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## CjCichlid

If you plan on putting the Bichir in with the cichlids make sure it's big enough not to look like a tasty worm! Personally, I have not had good experiences with keeping bichirs with cichlids as the bichirs simply cannot compete when it's feeding time. They take much to long to find and eat their food and the cichlids end up eating it all before they get any...


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## scarhbar

CjCichlid said:


> If you plan on putting the Bichir in with the cichlids make sure it's big enough not to look like a tasty worm! Personally, I have not had good experiences with keeping bichirs with cichlids as the bichirs simply cannot compete when it's feeding time. They take much to long to find and eat their food and the cichlids end up eating it all before they get any...


Ha, he's a good 5", and he's quick enough to eat 20 Neons :x and he likes to eat flakes whenever they are put in the tank, so I think he'd be ok  especially since my JD ignores NLS


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## Red Triangle

ahud said:


> Why would fish have a pecking order in the wild lol? I have never read or heard about that.


Watch the bbc special on the cichlids of tanzanika, and you'll see many types of cichlids in one area with obvious structures of who swims where, eats 1st, 2nd, etc., and also the pecking order of what cichlid group runs away from what.


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## ahud

I know in lake Tanganyika cichlids have them, but they form groups. Like Brichardi/pulcher have very complex social orders.

I did not think Centrals had pecking orders, I'm not sure which if any centrals form groups? Other than shoaling for protection.


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## Red Triangle

ahud said:


> I know in lake Tanganyika cichlids have them, but they form groups. Like Brichardi/pulcher have very complex social orders.
> 
> I did not think Centrals had pecking orders, I'm not sure which if any centrals form groups? Other than shoaling for protection.


The males have to fight for females as usual, so that in itself is a pecking order of sorts, and many of the females also fight for nesting areas. The research done on the social sctructures of convicts are well documented.


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## scarhbar

ok guys, with just:
-1 JD
-1 Firemouth
-1 Senegal Bichir

How many Buenos Aires could I buy? I love large schools, so I would like to get the largest amount possible without over loading the bioload. Thanks!


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## DIYhunter

http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php? ... hUnit=inch


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## CjCichlid

I would aim for a shoal of 8 as they get to a decent size (3") and are very active... I only have 9 in my 135gal and wouldn't put more than 12 as they are pretty rambunctious, especially during feeding time; NO food hits the sand.


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## CjCichlid

ahud said:


> I know in lake Tanganyika cichlids have them, but they form groups. Like Brichardi/pulcher have very complex social orders.
> 
> I did not think Centrals had pecking orders, I'm not sure which if any centrals form groups? Other than shoaling for protection.


There are indeed some CA species that form groups, or breeding colonies. Thorichthys species are a great example, as well as Archocentrus Multispinosa.


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## Steffano2

CjCichlid said:


> I would aim for a shoal of 8 as they get to a decent size (3") and are very active... I only have 9 in my 135gal and wouldn't put more than 12 as they are pretty rambunctious, especially during feeding time; NO food hits the sand.


This all translates to being aggressive and pushy and this is just a tetra, think of a toned down version of Exodon paradoxus which can live with Piranha.


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## ahud

CjCichlid said:


> ahud said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know in lake Tanganyika cichlids have them, but they form groups. Like Brichardi/pulcher have very complex social orders.
> 
> I did not think Centrals had pecking orders, I'm not sure which if any centrals form groups? Other than shoaling for protection.
> 
> 
> 
> There are indeed some CA species that form groups, or breeding colonies. Thorichthys species are a great example, as well as Archocentrus Multispinosa.
Click to expand...

I was aware of that, but beyond breeding seasons I did not know that these cichlids still sparred/competed for position in a group. Still not sure I believe it. Tons of species compete for mates, territories, ect, but I don't think they have a hierarchy. I won't disagree until I know the answer though :thumb:

I do know of SA, Malawi, and Tang cichlids that do. Did not know of any centrals.


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## ahud

Just to sum it up,

I'm saying that the dynamic of a tank that occurs when you mix singles such as a con, JD, GT, ect, and they form a hierarchy is not natural. I don't think that type of hierarchy occurs in the wild.


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## GTMommy

Steffano2 said:


> CjCichlid said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would aim for a shoal of 8 as they get to a decent size (3") and are very active... I only have 9 in my 135gal and wouldn't put more than 12 as they are pretty rambunctious, especially during feeding time; NO food hits the sand.
Click to expand...

I have a shoal of 9 BA tetras in my 75G with a Jack Dempsey, a Green Terror and a Geophagus Steindachneri. - They bring a great deal of movement to the tank but they are aggressive towards each other especially at feeding time. If you have a well stock LFS you may be able to get the albino BA tetras - colorful addition and they shoal with the regular BA tetras as well.


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