# Thinking about a cichlid tank, looking for advice



## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

Hi everyone,

I have a 46 gallon bowfront tank that I'm thinking about redoing, and i'm leaning towards a Lake Tanganyika cichlid tank if I decide to follow through on it. I've been doing a bit of research, trying to get a stock list figured out, but I could definitely use some more experienced help with this.

I've been researching some fish, and I have a rough idea of what I think I want, but i'm fairly clueless in terms of things like quantities. I've read a lot about Multies, and other shell dwellers. They seem to be held in high regard, but if I decide I don't want a bunch of shells on my substrate, whats another cichlid that will fill that "substrate dwelling" niche? Something that would interact with the sand, but not need shells to be content, to be more precise.

Julidochromis are another fish i've seen mentioned often, really nice looking fish too! I'm not sure which of the 3 sub species mentioned in the beginners species article would be best for my tank however, any suggestions?

I'm familiar with the concept of having fish in the 3 "levels" of an aquarium, so ideally i'd go for the same concept with a Tanganyika tank. I guess the Multies or whatever you guys suggest could be the lower level fish, and the Julidochromis would be mid level fish correct? If that's the case, what could I have for a 2nd mid level or high level cichlid?


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## webbie (Apr 29, 2012)

Mike excellent choice to go Tangy you wont regret it,what are the dimensions of your tank,if its 4 ft plus you could go for a shoal of cyps they will fill the upper part of your tank ,Julies lovely fish and any of them would be good ,ornatus ,dickfeldi or transcriptus are the smaller ones,if you dont want to go down the shellie route,consider some punks maybe,feisty little fellas, bags of attitude,most tangs interact with the substate from sifting thro it looking for food or moving it around until they get it where they want it,not where you want it !! you might want to consider calvus very peaceful fish, unusual for a tang, or maybe a comp,the list goes on ,honestly you wouldnt regret going tangy over the years i,ve kept trops and marines, but tangs are so interesting. :fish:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

A 46G bowfront is usually 36" so I would avoid the cyps. You could do Synodontis lucipinnis for the bottom and julidochromis for the rocks. I have the Julidochromis marlieri (Gombe) in a 36" tank with lucipinnis and it works well.

Two species are fine for a 36" tank but if you want to try for a third, consider paracyps.


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

webbie said:


> Mike excellent choice to go Tangy you wont regret it,what are the dimensions of your tank,if its 4 ft plus you could go for a shoal of cyps they will fill the upper part of your tank ,Julies lovely fish and any of them would be good ,ornatus ,dickfeldi or transcriptus are the smaller ones,if you dont want to go down the shellie route,consider some punks maybe,feisty little fellas, bags of attitude,most tangs interact with the substate from sifting thro it looking for food or moving it around until they get it where they want it,not where you want it !! you might want to consider calvus very peaceful fish, unusual for a tang, or maybe a comp,the list goes on ,honestly you wouldnt regret going tangy over the years i,ve kept trops and marines, but tangs are so interesting. :fish:


The tank is 36" long, 18" tall, and 12"/16" on the narrowest/widest portions of it's width.

The punks look pretty cool, i'll look into them more for sure. It says they need shells to spawn in, will be an issue if there are no shells in the tank at all? I'll check out the calvus as well



DJRansome said:


> A 46G bowfront is usually 36" so I would avoid the cyps. You could do Synodontis lucipinnis for the bottom and julidochromis for the rocks. I have the Julidochromis marlieri (Gombe) in a 36" tank with lucipinnis and it works well.
> 
> Two species are fine for a 36" tank but if you want to try for a third, consider paracyps.


36" is correct. I'll like write julidochromis in at this point, and try to figure out what subspecies I want. If I wasn't interested in spawning, I suppose having several females would be the best option? I'm not interested in having any catfish in this tank, but i'll look into paracyps some more.


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## webbie (Apr 29, 2012)

Don't think punks are all that fussed about shells myself,mine don't go in the shells in my set up,your set up at 36 " is too short for cyps,paras are nice ,myself I would go for punks ,Julies,not sure about an all female regime tho',a single calvus or comp


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

A rockdweller and caudopunctatus would work...but caudopunctatus use all levels of the tank...don't expect them to "occupy" the bottom. My caudos are satisfied with and sometimes prefer rocks for spawning.

I think a pair (male/female) of each would be ideal.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

You seem to be getting excelent advice. My fav would be similis or multies, a nice yellow Julie ornatus and Paracyps for your tank. Yep you could go puncs instead of the Julie (good iether way). Maybe even try all four with juveniles but ready to move one out if it does not pan out as hoped.

Me I have tried many rockdweller and shelly mixes and kind to come to the conclusion, what works once does not always work again. But thats half the fun.

All the best James


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

I have a rough idea for a stock list now. How about neolamprologus caudopunctatus, neolamprologus brichardi and julidochromis marlieri

Along with a nice rock setup and some sandy substrate, i think the tank would look great. I would be content with a 2 julies (probably 2 females), but how many of the neolamprologus could I have?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

mike383 said:


> I have a rough idea for a stock list now. How about neolamprologus caudopunctatus, neolamprologus brichardi and julidochromis marlieri
> 
> Along with a nice rock setup and some sandy substrate, i think the tank would look great. I would be content with a 2 julies (probably 2 females), but how many of the neolamprologus could I have?


In a tank of this size, you will want to stick with two species, and less aggressive species. If you added the brichardi, once they spawned they would likely be the only species left in the tank. While the marlieri aren't that aggressive, they are too aggressive for keeping with caudopunctatus in such a small tank. A smaller dwarf Julidochromis species might work though, such as transcriptus, ornatus, or the the dwarf marlieri from Gombe.


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

Fogelhund said:


> In a tank of this size, you will want to stick with two species, and less aggressive species. If you added the brichardi, once they spawned they would likely be the only species left in the tank. While the marlieri aren't that aggressive, they are too aggressive for keeping with caudopunctatus in such a small tank. A smaller dwarf Julidochromis species might work though, such as transcriptus, ornatus, or the the dwarf marlieri from Gombe.


I understand, so one of the mentioned Julidochromis species plus some of the caudopunctatus. With 2 julies, how many punks could I have?

Or alternatively, instead of julies, could I opt for another neo species?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Once the julidochromis and caudopunctatus pair up (in a 36" tank) you may find that the others are not tolerated. So a pair of each.

I had two spawning pairs of caudopunctatus in a 72" tank but that may not be possible in a 36" tank. They are not necessarily colonizing fish.


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## webbie (Apr 29, 2012)

Mike have a look at N.Buescheri gorgeous fish, not readily available here in the UK ,I have seen a few poor looking specimens for sale,but havnt got room for them at the mo


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

Lots of great advice in here, it's much appreciated, thanks everyone!

I have a better idea of what some options are now, and an idea of some species that can't co-exist together. I see lots of chatter on the web about setups for breeding cichlids, but i'm not particularly interested in that at this time. Now that I know a little more about what i'd want, i'm going to be a little more specific with what i'm looking for:

If I went with two species, and didn't want breeding, instead of having a pair of each could I have multiple females of each in my tank?


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

From what i've read, seems like I could have something like 3-5 punks in my tank, along with 1-2 julie(s) or calvus. Does that sound realistic?


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

Breeding is one of the main joys of keeping tanganyikans.. A lot of the lamprologine species are colonizing fish and allow their spawns to coexist with them until past adulthood and by having a Tanganyikan community tank you can observe how parents, fry, nonrelated conspecifics, and different species interact. Also since many are colonizing fish(some are more so than others) you don't have to buy multiple tanks to raise juvenile fry once they've grown past a stage when the parents consider them a nuisance. I can understand if you didn't want any of the fry but that's pretty easy to deal with since in a community tank your other fish should make it hard for most to make it to adulthood in the tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The caudopunctatus will pair up and reject the extras, so a pair of caudopunctatus and a pair of julidochromis (small, peaceful ones) or a pair of calvus would work well.

One of my favorite tanks was a 36G with calvus and caudopunctatus. They were all juveniles so I had 6 of each.


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

Some great ideas in here, all the help is much appreciated. There's a LFS I haven't visited yet, going to see what they have soon. I've also started looking at the Malawi species. Oddly enough DJ, it was one of your posts that have me some more ideas to explore, Demasoni/Labs or a Saulosi tank


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I had demasoni/labs in the 36" tank originally, and while I was able to make it work, I shortly thereafter bought a 72" tank for them. I did like the calvus/caudopunctatus mix in the 36" tank.

Never tried the saulosi.


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

Well it seems like I might've gotten a bit ahead of myself with the demasoni/lab mix. Sounds like it's a little for me right now, demasoni sound very aggressive. Back to the drawing board for me 

I've grown fond of the saulosi, maybe I could have a tank of those. That would get the lovely blue/yellow mix just like the demasoni/labs, but sounds easier to handle


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Good call I think
Even a small all Pseudotropheus saulosi tank can look awesome.


Also on the endangered in the wild list so more folk breeding em the better. To take the pressure off the overfished wild stuff.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Some good news on wild stocks. They are being bred lakeside and Ad is looking to release em back into the wild location.
Hopefully no one will be silly enough to go and collect the newly stocked reef but thats a big prob as not much to stop em doing that for a fast buck.


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

I've pretty much been focusing on demasoni, labs, and saulosi lately. If I were to do the demasoni, i'd probably go for a tank of about 12-15, and that would be it. Sounds like a tank of ONLY the demasoni wouldn't be too bad as long as the quantity was 12+ and had lots of rocks for hiding spots. It seems like most people recommend 1 species of dwarf mbuna in a 46 gallon bow front, but i have seen some say you can get away with two as long as they're not particularly aggressive or look the same. With that said, although a tank of saulosi would give me two colours, could I fit a 2nd dwarf species in there?

Same for the yellow labs, I love how they look, and having a second species of blue fish would be fantastic.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I for sure get the reason why you would want to keep yellow labs and Pseudotropheus demasoni in one tank.
But kind of do not get what you feel a need to add to a group of Pseudotropheus saulosi. Unless its red.
Then its a far bigger tank and your kind of looking for a man made Mbuna like line bred hongi


But that kind of ruins the tank as a biotype breeding set up.

All thhe best James


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

One thing about 2 species in a 36" tank like demasoni and labs...often you just do a trio of labs. There are not too many species IME that do OK with just a trio.

Some other 2 species options include labs and peacocks. Same thing...1m:4f of a small peaceful peacock and a trio of labs.

I think the 2 species option would also work better if the tank was a 40 breeder which is 36" x 18". Gives you a little more room.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Yep me I tend to go on the safe side and give even dwarf Mbuna a 48" 55g.
Just find it less stressful and hardly much more expensive,
My days of keeping and breeding Mbuna in 36" long 20-30g tanks are now gone I think.
Maybe because 40g breeders are not easy to get in the UK.

All the best James


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> One thing about 2 species in a 36" tank like demasoni and labs...often you just do a trio of labs. There are not too many species IME that do OK with just a trio.
> 
> Some other 2 species options include labs and peacocks. Same thing...1m:4f of a small peaceful peacock and a trio of labs.
> 
> I think the 2 species option would also work better if the tank was a 40 breeder which is 36" x 18". Gives you a little more room.


I've spent some time reading about the peacocks, but most places seem to suggest they can't be kept with any Mbuna. I understand the labs are less aggressive than most Mbuna, but could they still co-exist with the peacocks peacefully? Peacocks are very nice fish, seems like i'd have to go all males or get species with different looking females



24Tropheus said:


> I for sure get the reason why you would want to keep yellow labs and Pseudotropheus demasoni in one tank.
> But kind of do not get what you feel a need to add to a group of Pseudotropheus saulosi. Unless its red.
> Then its a far bigger tank and your kind of looking for a man made Mbuna like line bred hongi
> http://s84.photobucket.com/user/24Tropheus/media/hongilinebred.jpg.html
> ...


I don't think i'm gonna go the demasoni/lab route, definitely not adding saulosi to that mix. 3 options are a tank of each however (12+ demasoni OR labs OR saulosi). Also looking at Aulonocara as a possible tank focus as well. Basically I need to hurry up and decide what I want haha, but I still have lingering questions.


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

Well i've came to a decision, i've decided to go with a tank of *Pseudotropheus Saulosi*. The demasoni are probably the most attractive, and the quantity appeals to me, but I think they may be a little much for a beginner cichlid keeper like myself. Labs are also quite beautiful, but a tank of those would be yellow and not much else. At least with the Saulosi, I have yellow AND blue, and less aggression than the demasoni

Looking at the gender ratio, i'd like to target 3M/10F if possible


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

I've been tossing around the idea of getting a second, smaller tank for awhile now. It's something else I was researching while trying to figure out what Cichlid I wanted in my 46. I've decided to go for a 15 gallon multifasciatus tank


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

Went looking for the fish yesterday as I wanted to see them in person. Visited 2 Big Al's and a Petsmart, and none of the 3 had any of what I want in stock. Plenty of Yellow Labs and Demasoni, but no Saulosi or Multies to be found. It's likely i'm going to have to order the fish online, but I haven't see a Canadian retailer with any in stock either. Bluegrass Aquatics has some Multis, but I don't know if they ship to Canada or not


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## Shaky (Jan 2, 2003)

I have long been wishing to try a pair of Triglachromis otostigma. These are subtly attractive mouthbrooders. I bet they would do fine in a tang tank with just one other pair of fish.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Finding good Pseudotropheus saulosi can be a problem. Very few recent imports as endangered, breeders/suppliers they have to keep thier own breeding stocks going. Lose it and it may be gone for good.

Great Mbuna if you can find good ones though.
Good luck in your search.

All the best James
PS
Trigs oh one of my faves (very underated) guess what! Just had success breeding them!


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

Still haven't settled on what i'm going to do, but I have several VISA gift cards sitting around, so I was thinking about selling the bowfront, buying a 55 gallon and filling it with 15 or so Electric Yellows

The Saulosi are proving to be very difficult to find, while i've seen Demasoni and Yellows at LFS in the area. The Demasoni's aggression still worries me though so i'm really leaning towards the yellow if I switch tanks

Just another idea at this point, but I definitely am considering it


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Good _P.saulosi_ close to wild type are hard to find. Regular tank bred, well kind of suprised. They were real big only a short while ago here and still easy to find in the UK.

Still lots of other good dwarf Mbuna without having to resort to _Pseudotropheus demasoni_ and yellow labs.

Say good old _Labidochromis sp._ "Perlmutt" or _Labidochromis chisimulae_ or _Iodotropheus sprengerae_ or _Cynotilapia afra_ or even any two of those except two labs together.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Yep I kind of know _P.saulosi_ or yellow labs and P_seudotropheus demasoni_ are bright and popular.
But the others do have their charms. :thumb:


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## shelbynjakesdad (Mar 13, 2013)

I couldn't find saulosi in my area, so I went with Metriaclima "Msobo". They are a bit larger and more aggressive, but they are absolutely beautiful fish. They have the yellow female and blue male combination like saulosi. So far, I have no regrets, I'm loving the msobo. Also Membe Deep, if you can find them, are similar fish.


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

Any chance the topic could be moved over to the Malawi forum? Seems more appropriate being there than here

I've really become smitten with the idea of a 55 instead of the 46. It really opens up so much more having that extra foot of length, and it looks like I could have up to 3 species in there at a 1:4 or so ratio. Yellow labs, rusties, and cobalt blues have come up quite often


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

I'm also seeing the combo of Yellows, Rusties and Afras quite a bit


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

I'm thinking that the lab/rusty/afra combo is definitely the way to go. Sounds like it's a well thought of grouping that's excellent for beginners, amateurs and pros alike. Likely will do a 1:4 male to female ratio for each fish. Sunday i'll head to the LFS, see what they can do for me in terms of locating the fish. Will also look at some online sources along with starting to sell my current fish stock and the 46 gallon bow front/accessories

I have a rough idea of the build as well. The substrate will be pool filter sand and aragonite, and i'll have heavy rockwork with no plants. Whether I go with Texas Holey Rock or regular rockwork is be decided, along with whether I want a 3D background or a painted black background. Leaning towards the painted one at the moment, no idea about the rock work. Gonna check out some pictures and see what I prefer

As for filtration, probably going to either do a canister and a HOB or a pair of slightly smaller canisters. Might put a wavemaker in the tank


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

Went to the local Big Al's today, they have electric yellows and afras, and will be getting a shipment of more in two weeks, so unlike the saulosi i'll be able to get these cichlids 

Unfortunately much like the saulosi, they didn't have any rusties and weren't getting any in the next shipment. There's another location in the western part of the city so i'll likely go tomorrow to see if they have rusties or can get them for when the time comes to add stock.

As for the tank build, it's coming together fairly nice. I'm leaning towards some river rock to go with a painted black background, pool filter sand, and some nice clear lighting. I'm thinking i'll run a pair of Eheim Classic 2215 canisters, and use their outputs along with a wavemaker to make a nice circular current. For rock placement, i'll either place the rocks in the centre portion so the fish can freely swim around, or do the non symmetrical-piles method


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## mike383 (Apr 25, 2013)

2nd location has rusties, so i'm in much better shape with these than I was with the Saulosi

Also bought my tank tonight. 55 gallons, came with a stand, a smaller Fluval canister, a Fluval 200W thermometer and the lights/lid. Paid $320 with delivery, looks to be in great shape.

Needless to say I am very happy right now!


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