# just a question about hybrids



## Electrophyste (Aug 5, 2009)

I just heard the term Aquarium Strain, does this just mean captive bread?


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Usually 'aquarium strain' means a color form bred in captivity, ie not from nature. So all the manmade color forms (german blue rams, gold sev's, pigeon blood discus) and hybrids would be considered 'aquarium strains'.

Not sure if others mean differant things from it though.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Hybrids have nothing to do with Aquarium Strain, or Captive Strain.

Typically Aquarium Strain and Captive Strain should mean the same thing, basically more than two generations from wild, or unknown generations from wild.

Man made colour forms should be called, Line Bred, selective bred.....


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Should be and are ... well they are typically two differant things. I know the typical mixed mutt hybrid convicts are called 'aquarium strain' convicts ... correctly or incorrectly.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Do you even have a tank set up dwarfpike?

:lol: :fish: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :fish:


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

:x

Does a bucket full of mosquito larve count?

:lol:


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

No, they are not fish :lol: If they were I could say I have billions of fish!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Hmmmmmm ... *makes plans to head down and buy one, soon to be the world's fattest, white cloud mountain minnow just to spite you*


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I'd need to see pictures! LOL

Wow.. can you say derailed thread?

:lol:


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Yeah, you'd think the moderators would keep up on these derails eh? 

*hopes back over on the right tracks*

After rereading both my posts and *Fogelhund*'s, I agree with the line bred for deliberately created lines like the gold sevs, german blue rams, ect.

However, I do still believe 'aquarium strain' would fit for racial/variant hybrids (ie the spawn of a costa rican dovii and a Nicaraguan dovii) or said mutt hybrid convicts mentioned above.


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## Electrophyste (Aug 5, 2009)

now would a flowerhorn be considered hybrid or an aquarium strain? 
i choose flower horn for an example.
EBJD, are they just aquarium strains?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Electrophyste said:


> now would a flowerhorn be considered hybrid or an aquarium strain?


 I don't think I'd call anyone "wrong" for using it differently than I do, but I would not call a Flowerhorn an Aquarium strain as it implies that there is a natural strain and there isn't one.

It is a hybrid breed, aka a domestic breed.



Electrophyste said:


> EBJD, are they just aquarium strains?


 now, I might say yes there... there is a natural strain of JD, and then there is the unatural one... but I might also agree with some one that since there are no known wild EBJDs, it would be misleading for me to use those terms.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I would call flowerhorns line bred hybrids becuase they are bred for specific traits. And EBJD's I would call line bred. Note this is what I personally would call them (*gage* might say I'd call flowerhorns something else though  ) and not everyone might call them the same.


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## Electrophyste (Aug 5, 2009)

ok so if these fish can hybridize in our aquariums why do they not do this in the wild?


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Scientists theorize that it is slightly differant behaviorial ques when breeding. At least that is the main one I have read. Another states they can recongize the color differances, but that one is not in the lead at the moment.

In Mexico, a canal was dug through connecting the Rio Verde (I believe) and the Media Luna system. The carpentis from the Rio Verde have now been cross breeding with the yellow Media Luna labridens. That kind of supports the behaviorial theory over the color theory as the two species are quite differant color wise. Others that are nearly identical (convicts and HRP's) and very close in color don't hybridize in the wild ... another vote for behaviorial ques.

But honestly not even the scientists are 100% on it.


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## Electrophyste (Aug 5, 2009)

thanks for clarifying that with me


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

dwarfpike said:


> But honestly not even the scientists are 100% on it.


That's because there is no one rule to explain them all...

How much a species avoids or accepts hybridization is simply the average statistic of the entire population of inidividuals and what their personal preferences are. :thumb:


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## Electrophyste (Aug 5, 2009)

so your saying some fish in the wild do hybridize?


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Very rarely, but it has been known to happen. One of the requirements scientists use in determining if a newly found cichlid is a new species or a color form of the existing species is the presence or lack thereof of hybrids between the two species. The fact they have not found any hybrids in the wild between Honduran Red Points and Convicts is the main reason HRP's are considered a seperate species.

If you keep central american cichlids, you've probably heard and seen that convicts in aquariums hybridize with just about every central american cichlid there is, as well as some south americans and even try it with west african jewel cichlids. But in nature, despite an extremely similiar shape/color species, none have been found between the HRP's and convicts despite sharing the same stretches of river and nesting next to each other.

Now I know hybrid keepers usually point out that scientists only spend a few weeks to a few months catching and studying a certain river, and only several hundred individuals of both species ... so it could be they just are not catching the hybrids in that given river. But I feel that's a long enough time, and enough individuals, to tell when it's likely and when it's not. Especially given how prolific and indescrimiate convicts are (to continue the example above).


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