# Green Terror or False Green Terror?



## pamsam (Jul 28, 2013)

I was told this is a green terror, but I am thinking he is a false green terror? What do you think? Thanks for your help!


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

yes, green terror


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## pamsam (Jul 28, 2013)

Thank you sumthinfishy!


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

To be precise, that is _Andinoacara rivulatus_, sometimes called the Gold Saum, one of the species known as Green Terrors. The original GT was a misidentified and undescribed species, recently given the name _Andinoacara stalsbergi_. There isn't really any "False" Green Terror, as both species commonly go by that name.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

This is what was described to me as a false green terror as it it much smaller with orange fins, but seeing as you cant really get the original/true green terror anymore with the white fin edge up to 14 plus inches it is commonly just accepted now as a Green Terror end of story.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

Actually, the other Green Terror, _Andinoacara stalsbergi_, is currently available through a couple of online sources. There is also a form of _A. rivulatus _that has white fin edges, the real difference between the species is in the body color pattern.

And don't ever use the term "end of story". The story never ends, it is always evolving, just like the fish.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Mr Chromedome said:


> Actually, the other Green Terror, _Andinoacara stalsbergi_, is currently available through a couple of online sources. There is also a form of _A. rivulatus _that has white fin edges, the real difference between the species is in the body color pattern.
> 
> And don't ever use the term "end of story". The story never ends, it is always evolving, just like the fish.


Sorry, I meant locally at least not in my area, every store around here has the variety pictured and it's listed as Green Terror even though in fact it is the Gold Saum. After doing research about the differences between GT's i soon realized that this is not unusual but the norm in most LFS around the country, and the name whether right or wrong has stuck. End of Story. :lol:


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Just came across this today searching for something else figured I would post it

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=2523


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## notho2000 (Dec 8, 2012)

walzon1 said:


> Just came across this today searching for something else figured I would post it
> 
> http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=2523


Interesting. Here's a summary as best as I can figure it.
According to this paper, the 'Gold Saum' is considered 'rivulatus' and the 'Silver Saum', the 'stalsbergi'. Commonly in the literature, the 'stalsbergi' is referred to as the true Green terror and the 'rivulatus' the False Green Terror. One other line of thought is that the 'rivulatus' came in two color variants, the orange (most common) and the silver (less so), both rivulatus, both referred to as Green Terrors, and that the 'stalsbergi' with it's fairly wide silvery caudal edge and more importantly its reversed scale coloration to the 'rivulatus', is a "stand alone" species, also a Green Terror. Even though different species, same common name. I'm sure some aquarists and especially importers wanted a distinction between them in the common names for convenience and marketability, hence the term 'false' added to the name.
Here is the taxonomic history of: 
'rivulatus' (scales with dark centers and contrasting light edges - from Equador)

Chromis rivulata, Günther, 1860, original combination.
Acara pulchra, Günther, 1862, misidentification (part. (specimens b-d)).
Astronotus (Aequidens) rivulata, Eigenmann et al, 1893, new combination.
Acara rivulata, Boulenger, 1899, new combination (part. (all except the first of the 'types').
Aequidens rivulatus, Eigenmann et al, 1903, new combination.
Acara aequinoctialis, Regan, 1905, junior synonym.
Aequidens rivulatus, Starks, 1906, new combination (part.).
Aequidens azurifer, Fowler, 1911, junior synonym.
Andinoacara rivulatus, Musilová et al, 2009, new combination.

And the 'stalsbergi' (scales with light centers and contrasting dark edge - from Peru)

'Aequidens' sp. 'silversaumbuntbarsch', Stawikowski et al, 1988, provisional name.
Andinoacara stalsbergi, Musilová et al, 2009, original combination.

Also A. blombergi: (scales with dark centers and contrasting light edges - from Equador, just like 'rivulatus, and with thinner white edging on the fins that the 'rivulatus' Silver Saum).
It is distinct from both 'rivulatus' and 'stalsbergi in other parameters.

Chromis rivulata, Günther, 1860, misidentification.
Acara pulchra, Günther, 1862, misidentification (part. (the largest specimen only)).
Acara rivulata, Boulenger, 1899, misidentification (part).
Aequidens rivulatus, Eigenmann, 1910, new combination (part (ref. to _Acara pulchra_, Günther)).
Andinoacara rivulatus, Schindler et al, 2010, misidentification (part. (Esmeraldas form only)).
Andinoacara blombergi, Wijkmark et al, 2012, original combination.

So the Silver Saum 'rivulatus' and the 'blombergi' are somewhat similar in appearance in that both have the silver edging and the same scale color pattern and are both from Equador but differ in several other ways. The 'stalsbergi' is superficially like these two in the silver edging but has the reverse scalation pattern and comes from Peru.
Confusing? Yes, and even the taxonomists aren't entirely sure. The story has still to be finished. Not end of story!!


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## pamsam (Jul 28, 2013)

Thank you so much for all of your help and time, everyone!


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

to sum it all up, as i said in the beginning. yes green terror


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

notho2000 said:


> walzon1 said:
> 
> 
> > Just came across this today searching for something else figured I would post it
> ...


http://www.lem.net/alf/andinoacara-eng.htm

According to this it seems the original 1859 specimen from Ecuador A. rivulatus is what is now under A. blombergi, after that is when what is now A. stalsbergi found in Peru was mis-identified A. rivulatus, makes sense both having the white fin edge. A. stalsbergi then was labeled Green Terror then comes A. rivulatus (goldsaum), which was thought to be a color variation of the true A. rivulatus. You can now see where all the confusion began, I think now they have it mostly worked out, maybe not the end of story but close.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

walzon1 said:


> Just came across this today searching for something else figured I would post it
> 
> http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=2523


This Is an old article and didnt reflect the A. blombergi change


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