# More tank issues



## qtssima (Jun 13, 2012)

I posted previously about the injured albino aulonocara. At the time, I tested my tank and all the numbers looked good ( I use API Master Test) with the only level being "off" being nitrates at 5.0 ppm. To refresh, this is a 75 gallon tank with aragonite sand substrate and an Eheim 2028 for filtration.

Two weeks ago, I had the tank cleaned and had fish removed. What remains today are 2 bristlenose plecos, the red empress and fryeri, one p.acei, a red tailed shark, and the two johanni (although I am starting to think they are just some hybrids, but that is a different post.) The service uses Prime as a water conditioner, and did service the filter, but they just change the fine filtration pads at the top.

Yesterday, I noticed some redness on one of the fins of the red empress. Today, he has a few small red dots on his head and tail, as does the acei.
I tested the water today and got the following:

PH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 80 ppm

I only feed every other day - Cichlid Omniflake and NLS pellets with 2 algae wafers at night. My questions are as follows:

I. I think I am dealing with ick - what is the redness around the fin (it is bright red)? Fin rot? How much time do I have?
2. My tank is at my office. We have had significant temp fluctuations with HVAC issues and the temp in my tank went from 85 degrees to 78 degrees. Could this be contributing to the ick? I have started cranking up the heater little by little.
3. Can I add salt to the tank with the plecos in there?
4. How did the nitrates get so high in such a short amount of time? Could disturbing the substrate while catching fish have done this?
5. I know ideally several water changes might help, but I am very limited in being able to do this. I am not in the proximity of a sink, and the service actually uses some type of sump pump to do water changes. I might be able to come in on the weekend with a few 5 gallon buckets, but I won't be able to do it during the week.
6. I still have the hospital tank set up at home - I can move the plecos and the shark in there while I treat the tank if necessary.

Thank you in advance for your comments. This board is very helpful - I haven't had any of these issues in years as my tank is very well established, so I am just guessing at some of this.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You are thinking ich, but why? Ich would be white dots, not red dots.

2 weeks without a water change would cause a rise in nitrates from 5ppm to 80ppm. I think you also said they only change 30% once/month?

Disturbing the substrate could cause this, but then it should be vacuumed weekly when you change 50% of the water, so that should not happen.

Not sure about the bloody fins. Septicemia?


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## qtssima (Jun 13, 2012)

Sorry - white dots, not red. I will try to post a photo tonight that I took today.

Should I dose with Prime for nitrates? Or is my only option to do a water change? I know the substrate is vac'd - i have been there when they are cleaning. Should I increase the volume of water change when it is done?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Prime will not remove nitrates...I would definitely increase the volume of water changes but our minimum is 50% weekly so IDK how effective it will be even if you have them change 100% of the water.

Maybe plant the tank heavily and/or research chemical nitrate removers for your filtration system. I'd go with the plants myself.

And as much as possible without creating hiding or aggression issues, I would understock the tank.


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## qtssima (Jun 13, 2012)

Ok - I can try to up the water changes myself for the time being.

What about the ich? Can I do a salt treatment with the plecos in there?

Here is a photo of the fin on the red empress. The middle of the find is bright red, almost like its bleeding, with white around it. You can also see a few dots on his head. How should I proceed with this if it is fin rot??


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Fin rot does not have redness...the edges of the fins would be mushy. Redness makes me think septicemia which is bacterial.

From the pic it does not look like ich to me...tiny white raised dots like grains of salt. I usually see it on the fins themselves first. Could that be a missing scale?

I would not do salt with plecos.


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## qtssima (Jun 13, 2012)

Thanks for your reply - I feel like I started some kind of bad domino effect a few weeks ago. The only reason I suspected ich is because the dots are fairly small - he has more on the other side as well. The acei literally has about 3 dots on him. They are not fuzzy dots.

I have raised the temp in the tank to 85 degrees, tomorrow I will see if I can knock it up a few more.

RE: Septicemia - what are other symptoms?I tried google images, and bulging eyes seem to be a symptom, along with red streaks in the body. I wish I could get a better pic - where you see a white glob at the base, the very center is red. How would you proceed at this point? Is there a way to medicate the entire tank or do I need to remove him? He is eating great and swimming around fine.

Again,thanks for your help. I have no LFS here other than a large chain store pet store. At least they are well stocked with treatments of all kinds.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't think you need symptoms other than the bloody appearance to diagnose septicemia...as far as I know it is the only illness with that symptom.

Here is a thread where GTZ recommends some medications. You may have to order online.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=249169

Once you decide on a med for the septicemia you can ask the manufacturer if it will help ich or what you can combine.


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## qtssima (Jun 13, 2012)

Ok - thank you. I have not seen an increase in the small white dots, so either it is something different or raising the temp helped.

I will go see what my med options are today. I asked about other symptoms only because from everything I read, he should be on the brink of death, but there has been very little change since I first noticed the fin.

Also going to up water changes for awhile. I have a source for RO water, might go that route as the water in our building tests positive for nitrates, so that can't be helping. ....


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Plants would help. Be careful using RO water that you don't change the pH and KH of the tank.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If the tank is only being serviced once a month and they are churning the substrate completely, that would be your culprit.

Water changes need to be more frequent than that, and with every water change, you need to be churning and vacuuming a portion of the substrate to keep things in check.

I would not increase the temp in the tank. Increasing the temp can make some illnesses spread more quickly, and sepsis can quickly turn into a multitude of problems. I would slowly lower your temp back to normal and follow up with multiple water changes, daily if necessary, until you bring the nitrates down to 20, 40 max. (I would much prefer 20, as this will allow you to return to a weekly normal tank maintenance schedule.)


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## qtssima (Jun 13, 2012)

I have zero experience with plants in a sand substrate, but they aren't that expensive so it would be worth a shot. I guess I would have to find something that the plecos would not consider a snack, as I do feed them lettuce occasionally.

I know the sand gets vac'd and rocks moved at every tank cleaning, but that is the extent of the substrate being churned.

I am headed over there today. As a side note, the previously labeled "johanni", I now know are a mangiano or a hybrid of some kind - as one of them is holding. Suspicions confirmed...how have they co-existed up to this point (over a year) without spawning or killing one another I have no idea, size of tank? I thought they were two males that had worked out some kind of truce, lol. These were from my 11 yr old's tank, so I didn't give much thought to the purchase. Don't worry, the fry stand very little chance with the haps in there.

I was told at LFS that Maracyn is my best option for treating the tank and that it should not affect my biological filter if used properly....that being said, my understanding is to do a water change first, then begin dosing and not perform any more water changes until the dosing period is done. Since my LFS is a big box chain store, I just want to confirm those instructions. Should I increase aeration? I do have an air pump in there now, and there is a spraybar on the filter outflow. And is there anything I need to do with my filter once I am done dosing? I have an Eheim and the bioballs and rings are rinsed once every 3-4 months.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you Google them, Maracyn2 says septicemia, but Maracyn does not. First you want to get your water to the 20ppm nitrates because the nitrates probably contributed to the septicemia in the first place. You may need to do multiple changes over a day or two so as not to shock the fish.

Then I would follow the instructions on the box regardless of what the LFS says.

My biofilter has not been impacted by either of the Maracyns, but I believe the box says it can be. All you can do is test when treatment is done and confirm you still have ammonia=0 and nitrite=0.

For fast nitrate removal with plants, I'd just buy some floating ones initially. Try duckweed, water lettuce or hornwort. If they work then you may want to research a planted tank which is a hobby unto itself.


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