# too much salt?? Please help.



## joecellco2 (Mar 24, 2009)

I have a JD and auratus that are housed together temporarily in a 30 gal aquarium (with plenty of hiding space). It has been 5 months since they have be in the aquarium. I am setting up new aquariums in the next few days but am concerned with their health in the mean time.

I have had recurrent problems with fin deterioration and have used melafix/pimafix combo and more recently maracyn. I have also noticed a slight rust coloration on the pectoral fins of my JD (although, now that I notice it I can't remember if its fins were supposed to be completely transluscent in the first place) who currently has slight deterioration of the caudal fin and possibly the pectoral fins. No sign of distributed velvet appearance (although difficult to rule out visually when you are paranoid about possible disease) and no visible signs of ich.

I would like to introduce the fish (respectively) into my newly set up community cichlid aquarium(s) with confidence that they will thrive and not spread disease to new tank mates.

I was researching the use of aquarium salt and am wondering if this is the best treatment in this circumstance of fin rot with unknown microbial pathogens and if 1 tsp/gallon every 12 hrs for 36 hours and then progressive removal through water changes at day 7 would affect the fish adversely in the mean time (seems like a lot of salt).

-ammonia: 0ppm
-Nitrites: 0ppm
-pH:7.5
-recent water changes: 25-30%/48hrs
-novaqua/amquel combo water conditioning
-no formulated salt coctails/buffers added

Thank you in advance!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I have had recurrent problems with fin deterioration and have used melafix/pimafix combo and more recently maracyn.


I'd stop the medication and instead go heavier on the water changes. Go easy on the feedings, clean 
filters, vacuum the substrate, and strive for top quality water and see if there's improvement. I'm not a 
proponent of using salt medicinally. I believe that often fin deterioration is due to some kind of stress 
that could be water quality or aggression related or both. I've seen full blown fin rot that can threaten 
the life of the fish, but more often than not I've seen minor deterioration that comes and goes and 
doesn't present a serious threat. Rather than running through a full line of antibiotics or other 
remedies, instead try to create conditions that discourage pathogens from getting a foothold. That 
approach may also work to cure or at least keep it under control. Some level of pathogens is normal 
in any tank. Even if you knock them out medicinally now, if the conditions continue to exist that allowed 
them to flourish don't change, they'll come back.

HTH


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## 55gal (Jan 19, 2009)

I agree with *Prov 356*
I'm a believer in performing water changes to help keep your fish healthy, 30 to 40%/wk and more often if problems exist.
A large water change should follow the vacuuming of the substrate, and when cleaning filters rinse with aquarium water, when replacing do not replace all at once, you don't want to lose your live bacteria

Fin rot occurs when the fish is stressed for some reason. The most common cause is poor water quality. Overcrowding the tank, feeding outdated food or overfeeding, and moving or handling the fish can also cause stress leading to fin rot.

Treatment should include a water change, and careful examination of the aquarium conditions. If there is food debris, vaccumm the gravel and take care to avoid overfeeding. Start dating your fish food, as it loses the vitamin content fairly quickly after it is opened. Feeding fish fresh, high quality food, in smaller quantities is far better than frequent large feedings of stale foods.

Check the pH and water temperature of the water, and make sure it is appropriate for your fish. Incorrect pH is very stressful for fish, and can lead to disease. Low water temperatures, particularly in fish with long flowing fins, can trigger fin rot.

If the root cause is corrected, antibiotics will usually cure the disease itself. Use a drug that is effective against gram negative organisms. Chloramphenical, Oxytetracycline, and Tetracycline, are good choices. Treat according to manufacturers instructions.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Agree with everything concerning water quality and the impact frequent, (more frequent) partial water changes have on water quality.

I'll just add two thoughts here: 
Even with plenty of hiding places the two fish you have housed together should NOT be housed together and it may be that the fin rot you're seeing is from continual fighting. Improved water conditions will help prevent infection if the fins are being nipped but at some point the aggression will be more than nips and you may wake up to find one of these fish dead or close to it.

The other thing is the rust color you've noticed. If it's Velvet then on close examination it will look like a fine dusting of talc on the fish not the fins/skin actually being rust colored. A good way to look for Velvet is to shine a flashlight on the fish from different angles. Another method is to take flash pictures of the fish--sometimes the talc coating will show up better in pictures.

I know what you're saying about not knowing if the rust color is natural or not. A good habit for all of us to get into is to take a really close look at our fish when we know they are 100% healthy--then when there are suspicious symptoms we'll know if they are associated with some kind of health problem.

Robin


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## joecellco2 (Mar 24, 2009)

thank you all for your help!

I've been doing regular water changes and added 1/2 teaspoon salt/gallon.

I have set up new homes for the fish, should I treat the fin rot with antibiotics before translocating them or just get them the heck out of those conditions. The JD is much larger than the auratus and is clearly the aggressor between the two. The JD is the one with fin deterioration and am skeptical that it is caused by the auratus (the auratus has never shown a shred of aggression towards the JD).

I am worried about spreading disease to their newly acquired future tank mates!!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

I'd keep on for the next week or so with the increased partial water changes, Melafix and salt. If you see a sudden marked increase in the deteriation of the fins--or they really don't seem to be improving mid week then I would switch to an antibiotic. Try Maracyn-two or Maracyn-Plus.

Also: did you take a closer look at the rust coloring on the JD? If it's Velvet then you'll need to switch to a different treatment.

If it's just fin rot then I wouldn't be concerned about 'spreading' it to the new tank. If however it's Velvel or some other parasite then you definitely do not want to move these fish to a new tank. Either way: don't get any more fish until both of these fish are completely recovered. And again: IMO, they should not be housed together.

What other fish are you planning to get?

Robin


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## joecellco2 (Mar 24, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice!!

Is 1/2 teaspoon salt/gallon appropriate? 
(not sure if this is too little to have any theraputic value)

I have set up a 55 gallon 48" long tank with:

(4) 1 to 1-1/2" female convicts
(3) 2-1/2" yellow african peacocks
(2) 3-1/2" blue gourami
(1) 2" bristle-nose pleco
(1) 3" synodontis

My ultimate goal is to house the JD in this 55 gal community and trade-in the auratus for something more compatible if possible.

This is my second problem..... I used 8ml (the recommended dose) of Dr. Tim's nitrifying bacterial cocktail to jump start the cycling of the new 55 gal (so I could proceed with rescuing my JD from unfavorable conditions). I then naively added the above livestock (according to Dr. Tim's instructions posted on his website) about 5-6 hrs later. While the bags were still floating (unopened), I found that the ammonia was already at 0.25ppm.

See my "tank set-ups" forum post on march 30 (titled: "should I be alarmed: Nit. cycle problems")

It has been 4 days since the addition of the bacteria and subsequently the fish to the 55 gal and ammonia levels are still in the 0.25ppm range and Nitrites are now at .50 ppm.

I don't want spread disease to the new fish by adding the JD and I don't want to add an obviously stressed JD to a tank with a nitrogen cycle problems.

I have been treating the entire 55 gal with amquel+ plus under the assumption that this would bind up ammonia/nitrites/nitrates in a non-toxic complex that could still be utilized by the young nitrifying bacterial community to grow. Since initial set-up I have done one 30% water change in the 55 gal (yesterday), treating the new water again with amquel+ plus and novaqua+ plus (I also treated the remaining water with the recommended dose of amquel again before adding the new water).

I will check the JD thoroughly again today after work with a flash light for velvet (the fish has such vivid deep blue coloration and irridescent spots it is hard to tell), the only sign thus far has been the rust coloration of the caudal fins (since they are translucent) that and I cant remember if they were this way in the first place.

I am starting to panic and any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated!
thanks again!

Joe


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> It has been 4 days since the addition of the bacteria and subsequently the fish to the 55 gal and ammonia levels are still in the 0.25ppm range and Nitrites are now at .50 ppm.


Those levels are low enough that the Amquel+ should handle it. You'll still get readings on the test kits. 
Just keep monitoring those levels, and respond to increases with partial water changes and dosing 
of Amquel+ per directions. That's really all you can do about the cycling issue right now. If you can keep 
those levels under 1ppm, you should get through it ok.

And, by the way, the salt will help to detox the nitrite as well. That is one use for it that I'd go along with.


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## Zulaab (Jul 31, 2008)

Some of the healthiest tanks I have ever seen are from a couple of people who do water changes every 2-3 days in the neighborhood of 90%+ category...


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

In the future regardless of what sort of cycling process/product you use it's wise to add fish gradually, in groups of 2-4 so as to not overwelm the still fragile bio-filter.

Until your water stabilizes you should feed the fish sparingly to cut down on waste, do daily or every other day partial water changes of 30% and continue to dose with the Amquel-plus.

To detoxify nitrite the dosage is aproximately 1 teaspoon per ten gallons, (it's dependant on the level of nitrite in the water). So you're fine on the salt. 
Keep testing the water and watch your fish for signs of stress. Symptoms of ammonia/nitrite poisoning include:
gasping at the surface
loss of appetite
sitting on the bottom, lethargry
red streaks
discoloration around the gills

Robin


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