# cinder block and 2x4 racks



## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

has anyone constructed aquarium racks using cinder blocks and 2x4's?

i saw a video of a guy building some and it seemed to cheap and simple
here is the video





since he has 8 10 gallon aquariums on each platform, i should be able to make one for 55's correct? i guess the wood is strong enough to not need center support?


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## Bruiser13 (Dec 23, 2009)

It doesn`t show it in the video, but I`m certain he has center supports within each wood frame. I no you mean vertical center supports, which they clearly didn't have (except for the bottom one), but there would have to be some sort of cross braces in there.

I can't see 55's being an issue since they have 8 10's on each level.

But if your using the cinder blocks with the holes, make sure the holes run up and down, not side to side.. There designed to carry the weight load on there vertical edges. Also, I would definitely recommend spending the extra money on pressure treated wood, both the 2x4's and the ply-wood.. You'll thank yourself for that in a couple years..

Good luck and post some pics!


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

if you slow it down they have the second level sidways against the blocks before they lift it up, there are 4 total horizontal 2x4's, but since a 55 would be thinner, just 3 would probably be enough, i saw some where people use 4x4's for a ton of tanks, they filled a greenhouse with them


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## Bruiser13 (Dec 23, 2009)

4x4's would probably be a good idea.. any stand I build for myself or friends, I build from steel.. I know not everyone has the ability and means to do so, and its not always necessary anyways, but I would (and always do) overkill the **** out of it.. as long the floor can take the weight, I build them as heavy as possible.. Just easier than moping up a couple hundred gallons of water.. broken glass.. lots fish.. all that sorta stuff.. lol

Also... just another tip.. When your building the wood frames, make sure the crown of the wood is up! again, you'll thank yourself down the road!!


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

crown?


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## Bruiser13 (Dec 23, 2009)

Crown = Arch.. If you hold a 2x4 on its edge, And look down the length of it, you'll notice an arch in it. (nothing drastic, but if you look for it, you'll see it..) You always want that arch on top.. It wouldn't matter on the ends, cause its such a short span.. But I'd pay attention on the sides. It'll just help to carry the weight a bit better..


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

oh ok, also should the three crosses be the same length and all attached to the end pieces. usually when i build stand i attach the short ends inside the long ends, but for this it doesn't seem to matter


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## Bruiser13 (Dec 23, 2009)

Well if I was doing it, I would cut my sides (long pieces) the length of the tank.. Then whatever the width of your tank is, take 3 inches off of that and cut 5 pieces to that measurement.. (ei. if the tank is 12" wide, cut them to 9".. your end/middle pieces will go between the long pieces.. each 2x4 is actually 1.5x3.5".. ) I don't know if you follow that.. If you give me your tank's dimensions, I can make you a blue-print to work off of and send it to yah.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

it's a 55 so the edge of the plastic frame is 48.5 inches by i think 12.5 inches

but the length has to account for the cinder blocks as well


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## Bruiser13 (Dec 23, 2009)

alright, I'll get something together for yah


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

thanks man


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## Bruiser13 (Dec 23, 2009)

No problem. Just Pm'd you a few pictures.. Hope it helps.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i appreciate it so much, you've been a huge help, see i was thinkin three longer 2x4's and not multiple shorts ones, are they just to help with the stability of the longer braces?


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## Bruiser13 (Dec 23, 2009)

Right.. There going to help make your tanks more stable.. And its entirely up to you how you want to do it, But I know shorter ones are going to carry and disperse the load a whole lot better.

Again entirely up to you, but as I mention before, I would overkill as much as I could if it was my project..


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Bruiser13 said:


> It doesn`t show it in the video, but I`m certain he has center supports within each wood frame. I no you mean vertical center supports, which they clearly didn't have (except for the bottom one), but there would have to be some sort of cross braces in there.
> 
> I can't see 55's being an issue since they have 8 10's on each level.
> 
> ...


Not to nit pick Bruiser, but the video shows that there is no bridging (what you are calling cross braces) in the center four feet of each shelf. You can see a 4' flourescent fixture attached under each shelf and from the part of the light showing you can see there is no room for bridging. What I did have on mine was a center rail to complement the front and back rails on each shelf eight feet long or longer. That still gives you room in the space between the front and middle rail for a shop light, or closet fixtures and twist bulbs.

I would agree you can put 55's on a tank stand built this way. I used to have one made from twelve foot long 2 by 4's that held 14 tens on the top shelf and I think about 11 on the bottom shelf. I also had a 120 and a 180 on the stand before I needed a bunch of tens. I still have some stands built with the shelves like this but they are in a walk-in closet so instead of breeze blocks, I lagged the shelves to the studwork in the walls. These shelves have four foot flourescents under them, like in the video.

If your blocks are hollow, and you want to turn some on the side for ventilation, access, or to slide rails into, don't worry. Do it. They will hold up fine. It's not unusual for simple block buildings to have some blocks turned to serve as attic vents. I had several blocks turned near the bottom of each leg with 300 gallons on the top shelf and 160 gallons on the bottom, and not one piece of cement ever chipped off any of the turned blocks. If you are worried anyway, fill it with rubble and mortar except for the open part you need.

The suggestion to use treated wood indoors around pets is unconscionable. Manufacturers tell you not to do this. Many states and communities have laws and codes prohibiting this misuse of a material limited to out door use. Using it indoors can harm household pets, plants and children. In the worst cases, you might have to pay for a Hazmat team to remove the stand and flooring and walls exposed to it. You might be charged with animal abuse or child neglect if a veterinarian or doctor figured out what caused an illness or death of a pet or child in the worst scenario using treated wood improperly could cause. Chances are no one would ever find out what you did, and it would be ascribed to allergies or flu and cold germs. But why take such an unnecessary risk when treated wood is so inappropriate. It has been resoaked with water to carry the chemicals into it. As it slowly dries out internally, treated wood is more prone to twisting, splintering, and warping than the kind of regular wood you should have used. It does not take paint well, and tends to peel and bubble if you do get a coat of paint on it. I can't imagine any one thanking themselves in a couple years because they put themselves, their property, and their pets and family at such a pointless risk, without even mentioning the cracked tanks that warping and twisting treated wood is very likely to cause.


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## Bruiser13 (Dec 23, 2009)

Well, I guess residential code in Ontario is off. All the information I provided is common and what I've known to be correct practice here. That's just from a framer's point of view though.


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

I have a tip to share from building staging planks for construction. If you glue and screw plywood to both sides of the 2x4 shelf it becomes super rigid. Same theory as an aircraft wing. I have such planks 8 feet long, made from 2x2 spruce and 3/8 fir plywood. With 2 guys on there they don't even budge. I make them pre-tensioned with a slight crown, but his may not work for tanks because the weight might not be enough to flatten the plank.

If you are doing big tanks that more or less fill the shelf with one tank, then shelf rigidity becomes irrelevant, because the tank itself acts as a large beam. In fact you could support the tank at the ends only.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

pistolpete said:


> I have a tip to share from building staging planks for construction. If you glue and screw plywood to both sides of the 2x4 shelf it becomes super rigid. Same theory as an aircraft wing. I have such planks 8 feet long, made from 2x2 spruce and 3/8 fir plywood. With 2 guys on there they don't even budge. I make them pre-tensioned with a slight crown, but his may not work for tanks because the weight might not be enough to flatten the plank.
> 
> If you are doing big tanks that more or less fill the shelf with one tank, then shelf rigidity becomes irrelevant, because the tank itself acts as a large beam. In fact you could support the tank at the ends only.


 Excellent tips! There are joists available now with that design. Two by two's on the top and bottom edges of plywood make up each floor joist and create a very dead and stable floor. Pretty much what my stand article here gets its concept from, except converted to three dimensions. A six foot long rail made of two two by fours with a half inch plywood "sandwich" inside did not deflect measurably with a laser level when I put my 275 pounds right in the center of it.

I've seen fish rooms where all the tanks are only supported on the ends, even six foot long tanks. It allowed the aquarist to have four levels of tanks where most would only fit in three. One guy's basement floor was very uneven, so he hung the stand legs from the ceiling joists. Pretty gutsy, but he had it set up for several years that way while he was interested in the hobby.


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## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

pistolpete,

Great info!

A quick comment on pressure treated, I am not sure about the harmful aspects of it, in fact my local garden center had a local lab do tests on 2x12's to determine if any chemicals would leach into soil when I used them for raised bed vegetable gardens. The tests came showed barely significant amounts of chemical leaching in the soil, even when it was touching the wood. That being said, Presssure treated wood does release chemicals thoughout its live, and those chemicals can be transfered by touch. I think that is what Mcdaphnia was getting at.

There are two type of chemical used in P/T lumber, one contains arsnic CCA (the most common as of 2004) and the other contains ACQ. ACQ has no listed carcinogens (listed by the EPA) and is much less likely to cause any harm to anyone. To my knowledge, the lumber that contains ACQ is pretty common now, and would be a good alternative if you chose to use it.

Having said all that, I agree that P/T lumber is not a good choice. There are a few reasons I believe this:

First, most of it has hundreds of injection points where the chemical is introduced. This make the lumber substantially weaker than conventional lumber.

Second, I have built garden boxes out of both P/T, and standard lumber. The standard lumber got a good coat of exterior paint, the P/T was used "as is". The standard lumber has held up just as well as the P/T lumber. I used 2 x 12 boards in both examples, and there is zero rot in either of them. Both examples have been in use outdoors for about 5 years. My point is that even with constant moisture (from the wet soil and from rain) present, the painted standard lumber works great.

So, use the standard lumber, give it a coat of paint, and don't worry. It will last a very, very long time. Realistically, how much direct water contact will there be? And, if your room is that humid, you are going to have problems with the walls, ceiling and flooring far before the lumber startes to fail.

RBFG


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

Mcdaphnia: the concept that I was trying to get at is actually the opposite that you have described. Looking from the front you would see a layer of plywood, then 3.5 inches of wood, then another layer of Plywood. So it's the opposite of a floor joist and more like a door panel scaled up.

What is being overlooked with respect to treated wood is that it's not kiln dried and subject to significant shrinkage and warping when used indoors.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i made a sketch using google sketchup, this was my first time using it so it's a little rough, but instead of 55's over each other i decided to go side by side, and use the top for some 40 breeders or something else. also i don't want to go through the trouble of putting two pieces of wood together and plywood between 2x4's and all that. i don't really have the means to cut plywood, so i would like to try to avoid using it all together, i messaged someone who uses 4x4's for a similar set-up and they said they have been doing great for 10 years, but cutting 4x4's would be tough, so i might be sticking to a simple 2x4 frame nailed together, since the joints won't have weight on them i feel ok using nails and not having to use screws like normal stand i have built

but here is a basic idea


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

pistolpete said:


> Mcdaphnia: the concept that I was trying to get at is actually the opposite that you have described. Looking from the front you would see a layer of plywood, then 3.5 inches of wood, then another layer of Plywood. So it's the opposite of a floor joist and more like a door panel scaled up.
> 
> What is being overlooked with respect to treated wood is that it's not kiln dried and subject to significant shrinkage and warping when used indoors.


 I wondered if you might have meant that direction, but thought you'd clarify if you did. It's not the opposite, just at right angles.  I've used door panels stacked between milkcrates for shelving back in college. They will hold a surprising amount of weight. The stand design I have been using the past few years imitates this in three dimensions, so part of mine has some resemblance to your door panel idea. I don't bake mine like Bob Vila below. Pretty cool video though. Lighter, stronger, greener. Nothing wrong with that and if there are few ideas we can use to keep water in our tanks and out of the carpet, even better.

http://video.bobvila.com/m/21321078/man ... joists.htm

I did mention that treated wood contains moisture and warps, but like using four by fours and losing the opportunity to tie the wood together, treated wood is just something that some people assume is magical and they don't look into it or want their illusions shattered.


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## newfisher (Dec 20, 2008)

pistolpete said:


> Looking from the front you would see a layer of plywood, then 3.5 inches of wood, then another layer of Plywood. So it's the opposite of a floor joist and more like a door panel scaled up.


What you're referring to is called torsion box construction in the furniture industry, or stress-skin construction in the aeronautics industry, where panel bending moments are translated to the tensive strength of the outer skin material. You see it used every day in hollow-core doors. I've used the technique a few times in furniture construction with great success, and I've used it extensively in composite panel construction for hovercraft.


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

Yes, a torsion box. Learned that trick in second year carpentry, just forgot the name. it really is amazing how the finished product is so much stronger than the individual parts. I haven't tried it, but I bet you could drive a truck across those 2x2 staging planks have.

And Jacob, the design you have is fine, except for the two supports in the middle of each tank on the bottom row are not necessary. Practically any lumber store you go to will cut lumber and plywood to size for you, usually for about $ 1/cut. So just have all your sizes figured out before you go to buy your wood.


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## newfisher (Dec 20, 2008)

I've had great success using maple stock as thin as 1/2" for core pieces and 1/4" plywood skins on 5 foot spans for desks that needed to be light. Now I don't know about being able to carry a large truck ... but a small one perhaps? :wink: The trick it to make sure the skins are very well glued to the core.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

pistolpete said:


> Yes, a torsion box. Learned that trick in second year carpentry, just forgot the name. it really is amazing how the finished product is so much stronger than the individual parts. I haven't tried it, but I bet you could drive a truck across those 2x2 staging planks have.
> 
> And Jacob, the design you have is fine, except for the two supports in the middle of each tank on the bottom row are not necessary. Practically any lumber store you go to will cut lumber and plywood to size for you, usually for about $ 1/cut. So just have all your sizes figured out before you go to buy your wood.


 Oddly enough, you can have a very large hole in the center of the "skin" without affecting the strength much at all. Yes, you could drive a truck across two by twos but the result would be like the test to destruction in the Bob Vila video above. Amazingly strong, then when it goes, it all goes at once.

I agree the superfluous supports under the center of each 55 should be omitted.


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

pistolpete said:


> Looking from the front you would see a layer of plywood, then 3.5 inches of wood, then another layer of Plywood.


Ok, I'm sorry to have to ask this but I cannot for the life of me envision how this looks. Any chance of a picture for us non-carpenters please? :wink:


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

D-007 said:


> pistolpete said:
> 
> 
> > Looking from the front you would see a layer of plywood, then 3.5 inches of wood, then another layer of Plywood.
> ...


How about a live example? Walk up to the closest wood door in your room. The thin wood veneer of the door is the plywood. The edges of the door sandwiched between the veneers are the 2 by 4's on edge. Basically this is just a giant home made hollow core door.


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Excellent! ... Thanks Mcdaphnia :thumb:


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## iwade4fish (Jan 5, 2009)

I use cinder blocks and 2x10's, exclusively. 75g, 55g are doing well on them for years. Again, the arch should be 'up', and I place the blocks with the holes facing inward... just in case I need a place for more tanks; and who doesn't, right?!?!? Put 2x4's through the holes and there's your under-tank tank stand, sump stand, whatever. I use a piece of bathroom dryboard between the tank and the 2x10's.


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## TanganyikaFreak73 (Apr 18, 2007)

While its been almost a month since the last post I thought I would share my experience. I built a stand for my 125g 6ft long with plywood(3/4 inch untreated) and concrete blocks. I went with 4 blocks high and 4 blocks wide spaced evenly with the holes facing up. I cut two pieces of plywood to span the distance between the outer supports and the inner supports for a pair of shelves. 1 piece of plywood to support the length of the tank.

I did not use 2x4s in the construction. The tank rested on my carpet on the third floor of an apartment building  . The tank would move when someone bumped into it, and this made me a little nervous. I had lots of rock and sand in the tank.

The tank and stand went through a 5.5 earthquake while I was at work. The stand and tank did just fine. No worries with the construction after that :thumb:


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