# New 55G Mbuna tank cycling - good idea?



## dredd0606 (Jan 20, 2009)

Hi all,

Right now I have my 55G fully set up, and hardscaping is in, and I have decided not to do any plants. My LFS (Tropical Fish Importers - Lethbridge AB Canada - to give a shout out) recommended cycling with goldfish and pulling them out once cycled (since I want to add all cichlids at once). I quarantined a couple comets for 5 days in a bucket to check for disease, no ich present, so I sent them in to cycle. They seem to be pretty happy.

My question is, how long should cycling take? My LFS has my fish on hold (12 demasonis, 5 electric yellow labs, 3 bristlenose plecos) and I'd like to get them in ASAP. Here is a picture of the current tank setup.









P.S. Sorry about the crappy photo quality, its from my cell phone.

- Dredd


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

You have to keep testing the water. Ammonia will rise. Then go down to zero. at that time nitrites will rise and when they go back to zero you should be good to go. The nitrates is the final piece of the puzzle. It could take up too a month.

It is going to be hard on the goldfish to go through the cycle. Is the fish store going to take them back?


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## dredd0606 (Jan 20, 2009)

I asked my LFS, he said I could take em back. He did give them to me for free.

I certainly hope this won't take a month considering how all my media in my Cascade 1000 is from another tank (until I get this cycled).

I was more or less wondering if cycling with goldfish, then replacing the goldfish with cichlids was a good idea. I have never cycled a tank using fish that will be pulled out.

- Dredd


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Dredd, a Cascade will turn over your tank about 4.5 times an hour. As long as you did NOT removed or change any of the media in the canister after removing it from other tank and placing it on your new tank, your tank "should" cycle faster than normal. That doesnt mean it will be done in a week but faster than a "normal" cycle. What type of tank did the canister come from? Type of fish? A large bio-load, small bio-load, how long had that tank been running, those are all factors.
Did you use any water from the established tank, any substrate? Are you adding any beneficial bacteria to your new tank?

IMO I wouldnt use goldfish to cycle a tank, just because they often have diseases that may go unnoticed when originally purchasing them.

On my Mbuna tank, I used filter media, water and substrate from an established tank and cycled my tank with my Mbuna's in 11 days. I also used a beneficial bacteria and enzyme additive daily until cycle was finished. I had NO illness, NO death and they are all happy and healthy.

Also just a suggestion but I would definitely add a lot more rock. The fish you listed will need lots of caves, hiding places, etc. If your adding 17 fish then you need 17+ caves and hiding places.

I would also consider MORE filtration with africans, they are messy, IMO your tank should be turning over 10 times an hour.

Goodluck!


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## dredd0606 (Jan 20, 2009)

Califjewls,

The Cascade 1000 is from is a 75G Peacock/Hap tank from a friends house. He sold me the Cascade used after upgrading to a Ehiem. The Cascade was in use for about 3 months, but he pulled it about a week before selling it to me. It still had water in it when I got it, so I rinsed the filters under tap water before putting it in. It never got a chance to dry.

Also, I have a new AquaClear 500 HOB running as well, do you think that both the Cascade 1000 and AquaClear 500 give me enough turnover?

What would be good rock to add, or should I just build this rock up with more? I would rather get a "hotel" of some sorts, but I guess I could add a bunch more river rocks. I don't know if I want to add more slate, but I could pile the river rocks up higher. Can I lean them against the glass?

The substrate is crushed coral sand, 1mm max diameter. I used this to keep the pH high.

I am going to take a water sample to my LFS on Monday as that will be 1 week after adding the goldfish and 2 weeks after setting up the tank.

- Dredd


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

It is my understanding that once you take the beneficial bacteria out and/or off of a tank within hours the beneficial bacteria starts to die off, if it isnt placed into an aquarium. So if it sat for a week, even with water in it and then was rinsed with tap water, my best guess is that all of the good bacteria was long gone. Sorry.

As for the AquaClear 500, the ratings for it say that it filters from 167-500gph so if you use this with your canister then you should be fine. You will know if your filtration is not enough once you stock your tank.

If you don't already have a good freshwater test kit then I would invest in one, its super important to monitor your water especially during cycling and after also.

Also does your LFS have the same sand that you put in your tank? I find that LFS will sell or give you substrate from an already established tank, 2lbs would be great, sprinkle it all over the top of your sand to also assist with adding beneficial bacteria.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

I would hazard a guess that if the Cascade sat for a week you are basically starting from scratch. Any good bacteria would have dies off due to lack of ammonia (it's food). That being said, I would say you are looking at 6-8 weeks for a cycle. That's how long mine took using goldfish.

You seem to have a decent relationship with your LFS. Perhaps he could let you use some established filter medium to speed things along?


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## overleaf (Jan 18, 2009)

dredd0606 said:


> Califjewls,
> 
> The Cascade 1000 is from is a 75G Peacock/Hap tank from a friends house. He sold me the Cascade used after upgrading to a Ehiem. The Cascade was in use for about 3 months, but he pulled it about a week before selling it to me. It still had water in it when I got it, so I rinsed the filters under tap water before putting it in. It never got a chance to dry.


Water left in the filter isn't enough to keep the bacteria alive... it will die unless there is movement + oxygen, waste (ammonia) to feed it. Not sure if a week is enough to kill it or not.

Unless your tap water is chlorine free you may have killed the bacteria for sure. Always rinse filter media in dechlorinated water/in some tank water that you have extracted.



dredd0606 said:


> Also, I have a new AquaClear 500 HOB running as well, do you think that both the Cascade 1000 and AquaClear 500 give me enough turnover?


Should be more than enough. Aim to cycle the entire volume 4-6 times per hour.



dredd0606 said:


> What would be good rock to add, or should I just build this rock up with more? I would rather get a "hotel" of some sorts, but I guess I could add a bunch more river rocks. I don't know if I want to add more slate, but I could pile the river rocks up higher. Can I lean them against the glass?


Slate/Limestone/Tuffa/lava are all good rocks to add.



dredd0606 said:


> The substrate is crushed coral sand, 1mm max diameter. I used this to keep the pH high.
> 
> I am going to take a water sample to my LFS on Monday as that will be 1 week after adding the goldfish and 2 weeks after setting up the tank.


The crushed coral is good as it deteriorates slowly and keeps the pH up as you noted. Limestone is also very good at that.

After 1 week you'll prolly see the ammonia dropping and the nitrites at peak/falling off. All depends on if the good bacteria survived the stale water/tap.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

If I may, one Bristlenose pleco is plenty for a 55.

A loner will easily handle any algae, and it will leave behind 1/3 the poop.

I have 2 in my 38 and every water change is spent mostly cleaning up what they "leave behind."

kevin


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## frozennorth (Dec 16, 2008)

Ditto on bristlenose. They are smaller and better algae cleaner than regular pleco, but still a pretty messy fish.

Put a small piece of driftwood (you can hide it behind some rocks) in the tank for the bn, they love it and it helps with their digestion.

Like you, I'm waiting for the snow to melt to get some rocks for my new tank. opcorn:


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## dredd0606 (Jan 20, 2009)

Ok, if I only take one BN Pleco, do you think I could fit another 3 yellow labs for a total of 8 (2 males and 6 females)? Of is this too many fish for this tank, as that would make 21. As it is I am sitting at 18...

Also, due to claimed territory, is it ok to move rocks when I vacuum the sand? Or should I just do the best I can to get around the rocks?

frosennorth, where in AB are you from? :thumb:

- Dredd


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

dredd0606 said:


> Also, due to claimed territory, is it ok to move rocks when I vacuum the sand? Or should I just do the best I can to get around the rocks?


Actually you want to move rocks around at least once a month, more often if you are having aggression issues. So yes you can and should vacuum under the rocks.

21 fish is pushing it for a 55 gallon. IMO..


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

califjewls said:


> dredd0606 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, due to claimed territory, is it ok to move rocks when I vacuum the sand? Or should I just do the best I can to get around the rocks?
> ...


I agree about mvoing the rocks but i think 21 isnt too many fish if 12 of them are demasoni.


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## dredd0606 (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks guys! I am going to talk to my LFS today about getting some water/substrate from an established tank.

- Dredd


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## teqvet (Mar 24, 2008)

dredd0606 said:


> Thanks guys! I am going to talk to my LFS today about getting some water/substrate from an established tank.
> 
> - Dredd


water from an established tank will do NOTHING for you. This is not where the bacteria live. I'd warn against picking up 'established substrate' from an LFS as it could have potentially dangerous parasites and other bacteria since it's likely filtered by one large filter per wall as most LFS's have them setup as.Look for something called Safestart. It was previously called Biostart. You can add safestart in at the same time you add your fish and have a cycled tank almost instantly.

I've used biostart on all my tanks but have yet to use the new safestart product. reviews have been just as good for it as they were for biostart was however.


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## dredd0606 (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks for the info teqvet, I will check into Safestart and do some research. Agreed about the water, didn't even think about where the bacteria live...duh.

- Dredd


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

When I use the term LFS, I mean a store that has clean, clear healthy looking tanks with a staff that you can trust and that knows what they are talking about, not just any ole fish store.

I have built a relationship with the staff at my LFS and trust them. So that being said, of course the LFS that you get substrate and/or water from needs to be a well maintained trusted store.

I have started my main tank with all their help, water, substrate and have had no issues whatsoever. Once you start one tank, you wont ever have to get water, substrate from them because you will have your own.


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## frozennorth (Dec 16, 2008)

> frosennorth, where in AB are you from?


Used to live in Calgary but am now in Grande Prairie. Quite a bit farther north than you and colder.










> I quarantined a couple comets for 5 days in a bucket to check for disease


How many goldfish do you cycle with and how big are they. If you only have 2 and then at the end of the cycle you throw in 18 fish you will probably go through a mini cycle since that would be a much heavier bioload.


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## dredd0606 (Jan 20, 2009)

frozennorth - good point, I have 2 smallish (2-3") comets in right now, they seem happy enough, but I think honestly my best bet is going to be using Safestart.

I have read about 30 or so reviews on it from freshwater/cichlid enthusiasts, and it seems to be the real deal. One site even referred to it as the "2 day cycle in a bottle"...I think I will get another 4 comets, quarantine them, put them in after 4 or so days, and use safestart. Then wait another 2-3 days, and test, then another 2 days and test again. If my tests come up good, I'll pull the comets and do a 25% water change (with substrate vacuuming), then add the cichlids. How does this sound?

I feel sorry for you being up in GP...I think the cold would get to me in about 1 winter way up there.

- Dredd


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## frozennorth (Dec 16, 2008)

I have no experience with Safestart so I can't help you there. Let me know how it works.

I won't be setting up my new used tank till sometime in spring. Have to wait for the snow to melt so I can get some rocks. I will do a fishless cycle and then mail order my fish.

Yes it can get pretty cold up here (last winter got to as low as -43.6C) but we also had a few nice warm days lately and I do like it here. One thing I miss is a good lfs.


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Dredd, the problem with the Safestart or any beneficial bacteria additive is shelf life, there is no actual expiration on the bottle but Marineland itself says the product only lasts 6 months IF properly stored. So the question is, how do you know how long its been sitting on the shelf in the warehouse then to the store, then to you?


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## dredd0606 (Jan 20, 2009)

I thought I read in a review of Safestart that they did have a manufacture date on the bottle...

- Dredd


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Maybe they finally changed their policies, did you find any yet? Let us know if they have expiration dates on them now, that would sure be helpful to the consumer..


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