# Help me setup a 130 Gallon Cichlid Aquarium



## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hey all, I'm kinda getting back in this amazing hobby after a 20 year total absense. I used to breed Jaguar Cichlids and was a huge cichlid fanatic back in the mid 90's so I'm having a great time reading about all of this with the internet now lol.

Anyhow, I'd really appreciate your guy's advice with setting up and ways to starting up/cycling a new tank. I started reading these forums especially the product reviews section (very helpful in choosing equipment) but I know I have much more to read up on.

I started by thinking of getting a 45 gallon corner aquarium but ended up with a Fluval Profile 1500 130 gallon setup with nice stand for around $600 US. It's a 5x2x2'. I was looking for a used 180 with a nice stand but no luck.

It's pre drilled but came with no filter.

This is what I've ordered and receiving today from petsandponds (great support and website for Canadians I find) and the aquarium is coming next Wednesday on the 1st.

- Eheim 2217 Canister filter (1 for now and either a 2nd one later or a Sunsun 404b, if it filters just as good and not noisier since the aquarium is going in my living room).
- 80lbs of Caribsea African cichlid eco-complete live white sand so I won't be rinsing it.
- Seachem prime, Trace, Malawi buffer and Lake salts.
- API master test kit
- Sunsun 3200 gph wave maker and another one either 1600 or 3200 to place on top side pointing downwards on opposite sides to have a clockwise motion.
- Seachem matrix media
- and all the rest, Aqueon water changer, Northfin cichlid food 1mm and krill 1mm pellets, some ich treatment etc..

- Anything else to add?

Is this the correct way to start the cycling:

1.Clean aquarium throughly with dishwasher soap water or just rinse well with cold or hot water?

2.Add the substrate, some dead reef rocks and other rocks.

3. Add the water

4. Here is where I'm a bit confused, which of those 3-4 chemicals should I add if any and in what order as to not harm the bacteria from the live sand? I didn't get a bacteria starting chem so as to find out first if it's necessary with the bacteria from the live sand? Should I buy one like Tetra aqua plus?

5. Run water tests prior to adding the chems or afterwards or both?

6. What to do look for next or what to do?

7. Wait a few weeks to add that Matrix media or wavemaker?

8. I want to buy that Eheim Skim350 surface skimmer too but not sure when to add it.

Most importantly, forgot to mention the fish. I may be overstocking but I will bring back to the pet shop some if it gets crazy.

5-7x Burundi Frontosas 
3-5x Blue Dolphin Mooris (Faster fish but I won't let them eat more than the fronts somehow, tube/prong feed the fronts maybe?)
1 Male jewel cichlid (female a better idea)
1 regular blue Texas cichlid (female better?)
1 Green Texas cuchlid (female)

I understand the last 3 are not a great idea, but I like them and will give it a chance. I've had them before and they are survivors, although admitedly I'm scared a bit for the fronts.

Any advice apprectiated, with the cycling especially. Fish are all tank bred.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Hospital/isolation tank setup.


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Do not use dish soap to clean the tank.

I'm a big proponent of only cleaning as much as necessary - which could literally be water on a paper towel. Next up would be vinegar, then bleach if needed.

As for the fish - Frontosa definitely do better in a species only tank - I've kept them with other Tangs, but would absolutely not mix with central/SA cichlids.

Before going crazy trying to get 'perfect' water, what are your water parameters out of the tap? Much easier and less stressful for the fish to have consistent water conditions even if not textbook perfect than it is to constantly try to buffer water to meet some ideal. Being tank raised, the fish can handle water that is not as hard as their natural lake is. Don't add a bunch of stuff you don't need to. The fewer chemicals/additives you add, the easier the water conditions are to maintain. Depending on your tap water, I'd start with only the prime, and possibly the trace. I add only dechlor and epsom salts to my tanks. But my water is already slightly hard and a bit over 7.5pH


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hi, true that's what the wife said, with vinegar that is.

Haven't tested the water parameters here yet, but the tester kit is coming today. Will definitely check afterwards.

Do you think I should add something like tetra aqua plus to produce bacteria quicker or is the live sand enough.

I will just add some prime for now and trace afterwards in a few days i guess? Salt and buffers can wait for sure. As for the media, would you add the seachem matrix right away in the eheim canister or wait a while?

If I went only with Frontosas how many would be the maximum I should put in the 130 5x2x2 you think?

Thanks for info.

A 2nd hospital tank will be hard at the moment.


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

Could you find someone with an established tank that could "lend" you a sponge (some media) and you do not have to go through the cycling process.

I have 5 frontosas in my 6 foot 135 gallon. I could probably add a couple more.

You could start with 12 juveniles and pare it down as they mature if you wan to go that route.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

easywolf31 said:


> Anyhow, I'd really appreciate your guy's advice with setting up and ways to starting up/cycling a new tank.
> ... but ended up with a Fluval Profile 1500 130 gallon setup with nice stand for around $600 US. It's a 5x2x2'. I was looking for a used 180 with a nice stand but no luck.
> 
> It's pre drilled but came with no filter.
> ...


I also highly recommend checking the level of the tank and stand both prior to adding water and after you have the tank 1/4 full of water. Use a 4 foot level if you have one and check side to side and front to back on all sides of the tank.

You mentioned the tank is pre-drilled. Does the tank have an internal overflow, external overflow, only drilled holes or included bulkhead fittings? Are you planning on hooking up the canister to this system or are you plugging them? A picture of the tank and pre-drilled would be helpful if you aren't familiar with my questions.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

punman said:


> Could you find someone with an established tank that could "lend" you a sponge (some media) and you do not have to go through the cycling process.
> 
> I have 5 frontosas in my 6 foot 135 gallon. I could probably add a couple more.
> 
> You could start with 12 juveniles and pare it down as they mature if you wan to go that route.


Thanks good ideas. 12 juvenile fronts ay, wow.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Deeda said:


> easywolf31 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyhow, I'd really appreciate your guy's advice with setting up and ways to starting up/cycling a new tank.
> ...


Will do, i have a 4 foot level. This tank system came with either a fluval fx4 or fx6. I believe it's an internal overflow and it has bulkhead settings that stick out on the 2 sides inside the tank. One tube was missing but the guy told me it's ok if I'm not using a fluval filter as I can use an eiheim on both sides. I will post a picture of the tank in 2 minutes and a link to the system's manual if I'm allowed? A lot of things just came in the mail today. This is fun.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hi Deeda here it is:

https://ca-en.hagen.com/File/41f9e761-caab-4ca5-aa0f-4be37ab4b912


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

PS> I need to make I don't forget to write anything here as the edit option disappears after a while. I wanted to say this tank system originally came with a fluval fx4 but I didn't take it as I was over my budget for now so I just bought the Eheim 2217 filter. How come I can't add the marrix in there? i will be buying another canister with media already later on. Also, what happene to the days of adding fish to a new tank the following day of putting new water lol. Thanks again.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Very, very nice looking tank and stand!!!!! That is going to look awesome when set up.

It's also perfect that you provided a link to the manual as it's helpful to see the recommendations for installation and set up.

Two things, 1st, do you have the vertical corner strips for the stand/hood? and 2nd, you will need both intake and output tubes/pipes that install in the holes in the tank bottom in order to use the filter unless they have provide plugs.

Does the stand only have doors on the left and right side of the unit? It seems a bit inconvenient for furniture placement and access to equipment?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

easywolf31 said:


> PS> I need to make I don't forget to write anything here as the edit option disappears after a while. I wanted to say this tank system originally came with a fluval fx4 but I didn't take it as I was over my budget for now so I just bought the Eheim 2217 filter. How come I can't add the marrix in there? i will be buying another canister with media already later on. Also, what happene to the days of adding fish to a new tank the following day of putting new water lol. Thanks again.


The edit function disappears after a few minutes so no problem there.

The manual states that "All kits include a tank, cabinet, Strip-Light canopy, Fluval external filter(s) and heater(s)" so I'm curious why the Fluval 305 canister filter wasn't included in your package.

Did your Eheim 2217 filter come with media? If not, you can use the Seachem Matrix as the bio-media in the 2217.

Ah, the old days of filling the tank with water and letting it cycle for a couple days before adding fish! :lol: As more information became readily available online, we have learned to treat our fish and pets with more respect and care. Plus, doing a fish less cycle allows you to fine tune stocking options, choose appropriate tank mates, ask more questions and keep reassuring family members that we just want as perfect an environment for the fish as we can possibly make.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Deeda said:


> Very, very nice looking tank and stand!!!!! That is going to look awesome when set up.
> 
> It's also perfect that you provided a link to the manual as it's helpful to see the recommendations for installation and set up.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dee, I found it in this ad from this aquarium depot place, it was selling for 1200 cdn or about 850 Us or 800 cdn without the filter. So I got it without the filter. It has the canopy, 4 lights, stand also. Yes it comes with the vertical silver bar strips on the side. I will use them because they match my tv stand.

The intake and output tubes are also all there. It has 2 side cabinets but the front does not open.

I bought the Eheim filter with the media and just opened. I doubt I could fit the Seachem matrix in there.

Where would you hang the heater? It's 20". What did you mean about the level? I hope it's straight.

I will read your links tonight as well. Last thing, I was going to put the stand up against the wall, I forgot to check if there's holes behind the side cabinets to plug heaters etc. I better plan it well because i won't be able to move without a big water water change. The filter tubing looks kind of short i hope the filters connect directly from underneath.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Please post some pics of the back of the tank, inside the cabinets, back of stand and canopy since once it's in place, we'll never be able to see it again and it should be helpful in the future for both you and us.

You will probably be adding another filter in the future, we'll need to figure out how to install the tubing and parts from the stand to the rear of the tank.

Are you planning on installing the Eheim filter to the provided intake/output connectors that come with the tank? If so, check that the Eheim tubing fits snugly on the connectors before you start the install since different brand/model filter have different size hoses/tubing.

Also, did your Eheim filter come with the QD (quick disconnect) or shut off valves?

Level and plumb are terms used to describe whether the tank is even front to back and side to side so the bubble on the level should be in the center when placed on the tank rims. I would check these measurements with the canopy off the tank and the tank empty.

Is the heater fully submersible? There are a few options for installing the heater if it is submersible. You can place it horizontal, at an angle or vertical as long as you follow the heater instructions. You also want to place it in an area of good water flow so keep a few inches of space around it when placing any rock piles.

How close is the wall outlet you will be using and will you be able to access it from both sides of the stand?


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

easywolf31 said:


> Deeda said:
> 
> 
> > ... *What did you mean about the level?* I hope it's straight. ...


Tanks need to be level and plumb because, otherwise, you risk *failure* of the tank ... due to uneven forces being exerted.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Deeda said:


> Please post some pics of the back of the tank, inside the cabinets, back of stand and canopy since once it's in place, we'll never be able to see it again and it should be helpful in the future for both you and us.
> 
> Excellent, it's coming February 1 and will post clear pictures.
> 
> ...


It will cover the wall outlet which will be on the right back side of the aquarium. I bought a 12 outlet Noma Power Bar with 8 regular outlets and 4 widley spaced outlets for adapters with a flat plug enables furniture to be pushed up close against the wall, 4' long cord. I'm thinking of placing it in one of the side cabinets if it comes with holes on the back side. What do you think? Not sure how many inches to leave in the back for hanging stuff, reaching in the back etc.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Oops, yes I will have full access from both sides. You think the back side slide cover of the canopy will have to be taken off to hang stuff, hate leaving openings on top of the aquarium, had quite a few fish jump out back in the day. :fish:

Last thing, sorry man, I'm a research freak, do you think It's a good idea to install an Eheim Prefilter on the intake I believe?

https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/ac ... _prefilter


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Excellent on the Eheim, I was hoping you got the one with QD's and filter media. I would save the carbon pad for possible future use or you can install it when you're ready to set the filter up.

You don't have to use a pre-filter on the filter intake though baby fish can get sucked into the filter and often survive quite well as I've found them when doing filter maintenance. If using a pre-filter, keep it clean, check it often and if you have live plants in the tank.

I would just install the Eheim Jager heater vertically and submerged as long as it fits. I would still unplug the heater during a water change and I don't count on the 'automatic dry run shut-off' feature on anything.

I like multiple outlet power tap units though you may want 2 shorter units, one for each side unless your equipment cords are long enough to reach.

Clearance behind the tank will vary from set up to set up. If you should ever decide to add a power filter or HOB, you may need up to 4" between the tank rim and wall surface otherwise I leave enough room for hose diameters and hand space to grip items.

I will admit that on my large tanks, they are 4"+ from the wall and I only clean the inside back glass of the tank rarely and as far as I can reach from the front and ends of the tank.

Are you planning on painting or installing a background on the back of the tank to hide the equipment and wires?


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Deeda said:


> Excellent on the Eheim, I was hoping you got the one with QD's and filter media. I would save the carbon pad for possible future use or you can install it when you're ready to set the filter up.
> 
> I set up the filter as soon as I deposit the stones, sand and water, correct?
> 
> ...


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Once the stones, sand and water are added, wait a bit to let any floating sand particles settle and then follow the instructions for priming the filter. You can also turn the heater on at this time. Install the filter under the tank and hook everything up but leave the QD valves closed. I found the instructions a bit lacking so my personal preference for priming the 2217 is as follows:

1) Add NO water to the filter before starting the procedure.
2) Close the QD valves on intake and output hoses.
3) Make sure the output nozzle or spray bar is above the water line.
4) Open both halves of the QD valves on the Output first.
5) Now open both halves of the QD valves on the Intake.
6) Wait for the canister to fill with water and evacuate any air in the filter. You should see the water fill the canister and both hoses. If you see any water leaking out of the filter, shut both sets of QD's and determine the problem.
7) Verify that the output nozzle or spray bar is pointing into the aquarium. I've forgotten a couple times and had a mess when the water sprayed out of the tank!!
8) Plug the filter into the wall socket and the filter should start to operate correctly. If after a few minutes you see a lot of air bubbles or not a steady stream of water, unplug the filter for a few minutes and then plug it back in. Sometimes it takes a few minutes to expel all the remaining air from the filter.

Now, if you will be using the output pipe that installs in the bottom of the tank, be sure that the top of that fitting is above the water line so all the air is expelled from the filter.

I have only used one bottled bacteria product to help cycle a tank and that was Start Smart by TLC and I've only used it for a fry tank. Others have reported success with other brand products. The key when using these products is to follow the directions EXACTLY but you will still need to monitor the tank water using the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test kits and you may need to do water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite below 0PPM.

I've never used live sand or bacteria enhanced sand so I have no opinion.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Dee, those are some really great instructions, I will follow them closely and call my friend over so we do it together. Thank you very much for all your time man, really appreciate it. I really hope to give these Frontosas a great place and hope no long term damage happens to them, it was kind of scary reading that in the other link. I will also follow the instructions in the back of each Seachem liquid exactly as it says.

One quick question conserning the search option, I try and do a search on Frontosa for example and nothing shows up, do you know how I can search? The first search leads me to google and the 2nd search I think is to search for members? Thanks Dee!


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

If using the Search tab at the top of the page, just type frontosa in the first box (you will be directed to google for search results) and then search and it should bring up topics on frontosa on cichlid-forum. I just tried it and it worked fine.

If looking for species info and pics, use the Species Profiles>Lake Tanganyika>Tanganyika Frontosa and scroll down the various varieties or you can click Here


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hi Dee,

Search worked great, thanks.

My big day is comming tomorrow, the aquarium is arriving and should be setup by 5pm. I just want to write down all the products for my cycling procedure and if you want let me know what you think.

1. Adding 80lbs of live eco complete sand.
2. Will add some Seachem stability in the filter and the other half straight into the water. Will keep adding stability every 24 hrs for 7 days.
3. My friend is lending me a small aquaclear filter he's been running for years. He says he has hasn't ick or any diseases for years as he takes good care of everything and and always regular water changes. I will let it run in my tank for a month or 2 or as long as needed.
4. I will also take some of that media and put it in my filter. ?
5. I'm adding an air stone for oxygen bubbles to help with the aerobic bacteria spread?
6. I'm going to also add a molly and zebra fish to help out.
7. I will also throw a few crushed krill pellets and crushed cichlid pellets.
8. Should I add some prime as well since I will be using an old filter so it's bacteria doesn't die?
9. I will also raise the heater to 82 fahrenheit to promote more bacteria growth.
10. Should I add some African sea salt too?
11. When should I do a first water change?

I will run all the tests right after this. What do you think?

Kinda dizzy after a week or 2 of endless research and youtube videos.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Oh my...that sounds like overkill. You need dechlorinator (Prime) for the bacteria and the mollies/zebras. I would first test the tank with no fish...maybe you won't need them and you can't do a good test with fish in the tank. I would wait on the Stability too. Maybe your friend's filter is enough and you can keep all the gunk out of your tank.

How many/how big fish were in your friend's aquaclear filter? If you add the same bioload, you won't need to cycle at all. But definitely test that by adding ammonia before you add fish.

Is it big enough to hang on the lip of the 130G? Sometimes the small ones won't fit the lip of the big tanks.

And air stone won't help the bacteria any more than the oxygen from the filter...which needs to be sufficient for the fish anyway.

The food will just rot...don't throw that in.

I would not raise the heat unless later on...your tank is not cycled and the cycle stalls.

Why do you need African salt (not sea salt)? What are the test results of your tap water for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

Don't change water until your cycle is underway and you see nitrate accumulation.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Oh my...that sounds like overkill. You need dechlorinator (Prime) for the bacteria and the mollies/zebras. I would first test the tank with no fish...maybe you won't need them and you can't do a good test with fish in the tank. I would wait on the Stability too. Maybe your friend's filter is enough and you can keep all the gunk out of your tank.
> 
> How many/how big fish were in your friend's aquaclear filter? If you add the same bioload, you won't need to cycle at all. But definitely test that by adding ammonia before you add fish.
> 
> ...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the test results of your tap water for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? You may not need or want to add the cichlid salt.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Thanks guys for all the help. This was a nice mission today setting up all this up with gf and a friend. Setup was missing a few of the pre drilled tubing stuff but I forget Hagen is from my own city and owner of the big pet shops in my area so they will have them for me by next Wednesday. We cleaned the aquarium with vinegar as there was some calcium spots. 90% came out. 2 filters were installed externally. One canister and a friend's longtime running external filter. Placed half a sponge media with good bacteria inside the new canister.

Will run water tests tomorrow as I'm tired. When I receive the tubing parts I'll flush the water in a big 90 Gallon container, attach the filter than I'll put back the same water. I just put Seachem stability for now, closed the lights and will turn on the hester as well tomorrow. Very satisfied with the setup. Floor was level, it got scary in the end when aquarium was almost full. We heard cracking coming from the floor. I don't understand how a cheap melamine stand is supporting 1300 lbs of water.. Filter is cloudy a bit because of live sand. Didn't rinse it as you're not supposed too. Thanks all again.

https://s28.postimg.org/mwh3jgt4d/20170202_013153.jpg


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)




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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> What are the test results of your tap water for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? You may not need or want to add the cichlid salt.


Day 1

0, 0, 0 Ammonia, N, Ni
Kh took 4 drops Gh took 7 drops
I don't undetstand what the kh gh results mean.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)




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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

easywolf31 said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> > Day 1
> ...


Looks like you have fairly soft water (lack of minerals)

It is my understanding that having a higher KH helps to stabilize the PH ... and prevent PH swings.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hey wryan, thanks for the input. I have African Lake salt, Malawai Buffer & Seachem Cichlid Trace, think these are of any use for this issue?

Or any other advice, product recoemmendation appreciated, will do all 7 tests again tomorrow morning.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

I have never used any of those items. I only use Epson salt and Baking soda. IMO, anything else is not needed (except dechlorinator).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The buffer will help, but when you run out, the ingredients tanker3 mentions are the same thing (mostly) but less expensive.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Curious as to where in Canada you are? In Toronto (scarborough to be exact) I have a K.H of around 6 (drops, don't bother with the conversion chart) and the city water contains chloramines. I used baking soda for years to buffer the K.H but stopped at least a year ago because nobody else in the area was doing it and didn't seem to have any problems. I stopped using salt a long time ago.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

True guys, I'm not buying anymore of these chemicals afterwards...just prime dechlorinator. That's all we used 20 years ago with epson salt and maybe some stress coat.

I just bought these in case to be ready in the start when I put in the 7-10 Frontosas, 4 Blue Dolphin Mooris, 1 Green texas, 1 Jewel, 1 Brachardi & 1 Black Diamond cichlid (Paratilapia) cichlid. Those are the only ones I like..Leleupis and Managuense types too but I'll need other aquariums for those...or I may give away everything afterwards and just stick with Frontosas.

I'm going to test everything again tomorrow morning...Nody I'm near Montreal. When one does the KH test, does the first drop count or what comes afterwards? I can't tell what my PH is either. The high ph test produced a weird pinkish red color and the liw oh tester showed the maximum 7.6. Is it possible that the low ph tester showed that color because it was the maximun? Here is a clearer picture of the pinkish color on the left.

And there's no way because I'm reading zero ammonia, nitrite and nitrate that my tank has cycled already, correct lol?


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Day 2...PH looks like it's 8.1-8.3? KH is still at 4 drops and GH 7 drops. What is my kh and gh if someone asks me? I added about 9 teaspoons of African lake salt and will test tomorrow again.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

easywolf31 said:


> Hey wryan, thanks for the input.


You're quite welcome.



easywolf31 said:


> I have African Lake salt, Malawai Buffer & Seachem Cichlid Trace, think these are of any use for this issue?


Not familiar with, nor have I actually used, any of those products ... and additionally, I'm novice when it comes to keeping Rift Lake fish ... so I will defer to the others that have responded here, whose experience is far, far greater than mine ... save for thought that if you can avoid having to mess with doctoring the water with no ill effects, it's better over the long haul.

For me, things that add additional complications to normal maintenance have a tendency to become a barrier to ensuring that such maintenance gets done in a timely manner.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

easywolf31 said:


> When one does the KH test, does the first drop count or what comes afterwards?


Count the first drop along with the rest of them.



easywolf31 said:


> I can't tell what my PH is either. The high ph test produced a weird pinkish red color and the liw oh tester showed the maximum 7.6. Is it possible that the low ph tester showed that color because it was the maximun?


Yup, sure is possible.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

easywolf31 said:


> And there's no way because I'm reading zero ammonia, nitrite and nitrate that my tank has cycled already, correct lol?


 Nitrate=0 is evidence that the tank is NOT cycled. Nitrite=0 because none has had a chance to build up since you just filled the tank.

How are you cycling? If you added ammonia for a fishless cycle with ammonia, then you should have an ammonia reading.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

I'm just using Seachem Stability now...it says use it for the first 7 days and you'll have no issues...I bought 2 1.5" Blue dolphin Cichlids today and they immediately started nibbling on sand and exploring. Amazing how they both follow each other. I also slowly got them acclimated to the tanks water by slowly adding 10ml to tgeir bag...did this for 30mins..After 30 mins they were chasing and eating those Northfin 1mm pellets..


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Day 3

Added African lake salt the day before and Seachem Stability. The only thing that changed was the gh. It took 7 drops the first 2 days, this time it took 11. What does that mean, I have no idea.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

With fish in the tank you don't want your parameters to change. So keep it at 11 now.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> With fish in the tank you don't want your parameters to change. So keep it at 11 now.


Day 4
Hi, I added 7 1 inch Kigoma Frontosas yesterday and Stability only. The only change was possibly a slightly greener yellow in ammonia (but much more yellowish) and the Kh jumped to 5 from 4 drops and Gh to 13 drops from 11 and 7 previously.

Is that a good thing? When they say a fish does well in 7-20 gh what does that mean? How do i know what my gh is? Is it 13?


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

I should mention I also added 2 big dead coral rocks the day before.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

With fish in the tank you want the parameters to stay the same. Your KH and GH are the # of drops. So it has changed from 7 to 11 to 13.

Any green means you have ammonia which is not good.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> With fish in the tank you want the parameters to stay the same. Your KH and GH are the # of drops. So it has changed from 7 to 11 to 13.
> 
> Any green means you have ammonia which is not good.


Cool, so when the description of the water hardness for Frontosa says: Hardness Range: 12 - 15 dGH, am I in that range? What is my hardness range currently? 5-13 dGH?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You want it to be one reading day in and day out...not bouncing around in a range. You are at 13 and should stay there to have stable water parameters.

The range is the lake means measurements taken at various locations or times of year...but not day-to-day in one spot.

Also the reason KH is important is to buffer (keep the pH stable) so once you go above 7 drops extra KH is wasted, IMO.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> You want it to be one reading day in and day out...not bouncing around in a range. You are at 13 and should stay there to have stable water parameters.
> 
> The range is the lake means measurements taken at various locations or times of year...but not day-to-day in one spot.
> 
> Also the reason KH is important is to buffer (keep the pH stable) so once you go above 7 drops extra KH is wasted, IMO.


I still don't get it though....what is my dgh?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Your GH was 7 on day 1 and day 2. Your GH was 11 on day 3. Now your GH is 13. Your parameters are changing...try to keep them stable.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Your GH was 7 on day 1 and day 2. Your GH was 11 on day 3. Now your GH is 13. Your parameters are changing...try to keep them stable.


Thanks, ok so my current dGH is 13. KH is not counted than in general hardness? I was told from a person working in a nearby pet shop that for some reason our water has no alkalinity or minerals and that the ph collapses..I wonder why..


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

GH and KH measure two different things. KH is more important to keeping pH stable but both can help.

You didn't have a problem before you added the cichlid salt...your original water parameters were fine to keep pH stable. My KH and GH are 7 and my pH is rock steady.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> GH and KH measure two different things. KH is more important to keeping pH stable but both can help.
> 
> You didn't have a problem before you added the cichlid salt...your original water parameters were fine to keep pH stable. My KH and GH are 7 and my pH is rock steady.


Day 5,

Hope you guys aren't getting sick of me lol. Today everything was steady and the same, including the KH and GH, will report if I ever see any major difference. Added about 5-7 gallons of fresh tapped water and Prime as well just in case. Added the usual Stability (2 days left of this) and some Malawi buffer this morning as the PH may have dropped a bit. Hard to tell on the tester's kit booklet, as the colors are almost the same from 7.4-8.2 not sure if I'm seeing more of a brownish or light purple color.

I think this Stability product from Seachem is just great, Ammonia and Nitrite/Nitrate are 0, hoepfully it stays the same once I stop the stability. Thinking of doing a quick sand cleanup / 10-20% water change this Wednesday as well, will add some Prime though.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You don't want nitrate to be zero. This means that your beneficial bacteria are not established.

When you choose to use Malawi buffer, you need to add it to every water addition you put in your tank whether you are changing water or just topping off. Once you get your parameters where they should be you need to know exactly how much of everything to add/gallon and add it at the same time and every time. You don't have to premix (unless you have to dissolve), but you do add it at the same time, every time. Not later when you test and parameters have changed.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> You don't want nitrate to be zero. This means that your beneficial bacteria are not established.
> 
> When you choose to use Malawi buffer, you need to add it to every water addition you put in your tank whether you are changing water or just topping off. Once you get your parameters where they should be you need to know exactly how much of everything to add/gallon and add it at the same time and every time. You don't have to premix (unless you have to dissolve), but you do add it at the same time, every time. Not later when you test and parameters have changed.


Hello again, some new developments. I believe KH has gone from 5 to 6. I may be wrong though as I believe I added an extra drop. Gh steady at 13. I forgot to add stability last night so added this morning and did tests just now instead of morning.

Check out these colors, I see PH rising or falling it was kinda brownish before. What do you think? Looks like I have some ammonia now, no nitrites and some nitrates? Weird or normal?

I have also added 11 fish since Friday. But no more for now. Water is kind of cloudy a bit. I may be overfeeding.

Please see this picture:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You might want to create a log with readings for each test for each day until you are stable. You do have ammonia. Nitrite looks good.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> You might want to create a log with readings for each test for each day until you are stable. You do have ammonia. Nitrite looks good.


Cool will do. I may be wrong about the nitrate as when I lifted the vial just now it was more yellow than orange. Is the ammonia reason to panic? I wonder why the water has looked cloudy lately.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Well you should never panic, but you should take steps to fix the ammonia. How did you cycle the tank?

Nitrate is OK for now.

Cloudiness (white, not green) could be a bacterial bloom caused by the extra ammonia. If you used bottled product, what do the directions say?


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Well you should never panic, but you should take steps to fix the ammonia. How did you cycle the tank?
> 
> Nitrate is OK for now.
> 
> Cloudiness (white, not green) could be a bacterial bloom caused by the extra ammonia. If you used bottled product, what do the directions say?


The Seachem stability instructions said to use it for 7 days. Today is the final day. I've also had my friend's ling time running filter going since day 1 as well as adding a piece of it's foam media in the new filter. I hope it's a bacteria bloom .

Wondering if I should do a water change. Anyhow tomorrow my pre drilled filters are coming so I will need to add about 20-30% after I refill the tank. Thanks for advice all. Please keep it coming, it helps.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would ask the Stability people why you have ammonia or whether to do water changes. A bacterial bloom is not good news...you want it to grow in your filter media only.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hey all, just went through a little disaster. A Jewel Cichlid i bought on Monday had a red spike coming out of it's posterior. I did some research and found out it was infected with Camallanus worms...It's a really bad one. Brought the fish back to the pet shop and showed them that many of their fish had it as well.

Anyhow I had to do a 98% water change..cleaned the sand etc and ordered the best medication for it from entirelypets.com called fish bendazole that contains fenbendazole..must mix it with and water and feed it to the fish..pet shop gave me credit and free metroplex and seachem focus but that's no good..

Got the parts to install the pre drilled filtration...fish look very happy for now.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Day 14. Can someone explain to me why my tank looks like a green bog/swamp lol?

The original milky bacterial bloom has become a green cloud. I also have diatom brown algea forming, but mostly on dead coral rocks in the middle of the tank.

Could it be possible the filter media that I ripped from my friend's media sponge and placed it in my new canister filter is causing a green algea bloom now? That filter was used in an aquarium filled with algea from head to toe.

The diatoms came before the green cloud. I've been doing 25% water changes for 3 days in a row now. Should I stop the filter and remove that bog spreading filter media I put from my friend's filter??


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Too many nutrients...too much light. What are your test results for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates? What lights do you have and how long are they on?


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Too many nutrients...too much light. What are your test results for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates? What lights do you have and how long are they on?


Hi again DJ Ransome. I came home and took out my friends media cube (I call it the borg or bog cube, I told him to bring it to Nasa as they can use it to terraform Mars with it) just in case that was what's producing the green water - cloud.

I feed them Northfin 1mm cichlid pellets & krill pellets. Recently I bought Hikari frozen brine shrimp and supermarket crab meat. They go crazy for that. I feed them twice a day for about 1 minute, rotating the food of course.

I have 4 T5 lights, 3 actinic and 1 powerglo. I leave them on for 15 mins in the morning to look at them. Than from 4pm to about 11:30pm, so about 7-8hrs per day.

I just tested the water right now and I have zero ammonia (maybe 0.1), 0 Nitrates and maybe very very little Nitrates 0.25?

I have brown algea but it seems to have stopped. I will do another 25% water change. Is that ok? It will be the 4th day in a row im6doing a water change. It takes me 5 mins as I have the Aquon water changer right on my side cabinet which is perfectly placed right next to the washroom about 7 feet away. What do you think this green algae looking water could have come from?

Thanks again.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Try turning off the actinics completely and reduce hours/day with lights on to 4.

Assume you mean nitrites = 0 and nitrates = 0.25.

Do you have phosphates in your tap water?


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Try turning off the actinics completely and reduce hours/day with lights on to 4.
> 
> Assume you mean nitrites = 0 and nitrates = 0.25.
> 
> Do you have phosphates in your tap water?


I will need to buy a phosphate tester for that one.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Try turning off the actinics completely and reduce hours/day with lights on to 4.
> 
> Assume you mean nitrites = 0 and nitrates = 0.25.
> 
> Do you have phosphates in your tap water?


Ok, I think I figured out the green cloud. It's the diatoms growing on the front bottom half of the glass. When I look from the top or sides the water is just cloudy (bacterial bloom). Since the diatom algae is brown and my lights are blueish it's ptobably causing the water to look greenish. I will immediately turn off the lights going forward or at maximum 4 hrs per day as today I left them on since the mirning and it looks worse.

What the heck is going on with my aquarium, worms, diatoms, cloudy mess arghhhhh. First 15 days have been hard, at least ammonia and nitrates are 0...Hope I'm on the right path.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hey DJ, I lowered the lighting hours and it seems to be kind of working. Thanks.

Day 16:

Ph steady at 8.2-8.4, Ammonia lowered to 0, maybe due to those 4-5 consecutive days of 20-30% water changes, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0-0.25ppm, KH around 4.5, GH 9.

Here's a video of them feeding for fun: (Check out that nice bacteria bloom).


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Try turning off the actinics completely and reduce hours/day with lights on to 4.
> 
> Assume you mean nitrites = 0 and nitrates = 0.25.
> 
> Do you have phosphates in your tap water?


Hey Dj, so I went and got an Api phosphate kit and the aquarium water tested 0. The tap water was greener up to the next level.

Day 18
PH 8.2
Kh 5 (including first drop)
Gh 9
Ammonia, Nitrites & Nitrates 0

Washroom tap water:
Phosphates 0.25
PH Neutral 7-8
Kh 2
Gh 4

You were right about closing those actinic lights. I read that the good nutrifying bacteria don't do well under UV or blue lights. I returned 2 to the store and will order a USA Satellite Current Led fixture for about 85$ on ebay instead. Right now I only have a white 18k light open. Maybe all those days under the blue light has been slowing the growth of the good bacteria since it takes 12-20 hrs for them to multiply. Also 5 consecutive days of water changes was probably not good. Aquarium is still very bloomy. I should just leave it with no lights on, period.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The bloom is because of extra ammonia...not a deficiency in beneficial bacteria. Good news that you have no phosphate and the algae is improving.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> The bloom is because of extra ammonia...not a deficiency in beneficial bacteria. Good news that you have no phosphate and the algae is improving.


Hey DJ, I'm really demoralized man lol. The water just keeps getting cloudier and cloudier and kind of greenier...if you see it now it looks like a bog or a marsh...I give up not sure what else to do...


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)




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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Can you get rid of the ammonia?


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

What do you mean exactly? My ammonia tests have been reading 0 since day 1. I just checked yesterday and again at 0. Want me to check in 2 hours again?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No, I just don't know what could be causing a bacteria bloom other than ammonia. I'm stumped.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> No, I just don't know what could be causing a bacteria bloom other than ammonia. I'm stumped.


This really sucks. I get back into it after 20 years, get the worst disease camallanus worms with my 2nd fish, cloudy green water straight from the everglade swamps and no one knows how to fix this lol. This and the videos below it is what I have at the moment. I think i overkilled it with all the effin seachem chemicals, 95% water flush because of possible full worm contagion and what the **** else.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Dj! See any ammonia or nitrates?

Day 19


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I do see ammonia but no nitrates.


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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

Test your ammonia kit against drinking/tap water and use that as a baseline for 0 ammonia. My test kit never read a solid yellow...


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Thanks guys, and yes that's a good idea to test my ammonia free tap water vs my aquarium water to see the color difference.

And finally, yesterday the water started really clearing up. This is becoming a good experience for me now. I will say this to anyone who has been in the middle of this process, DO NOT do water changes excessively when you're cycling and have green or/and cloudy water. You are just making it worse by delaying the cycling process. Stay off some of those illogical youtube videos, which I'll leave them a comment, that say to do 50% water changes every day like a maniac.

Either that was my key problem or the lighting. I've left the aquarium with no lights for a few days and that could be what is helping even more.

So no water changes and barely any lighting will help speed up the process. I have a feeling when I get home and do a water test that I may finally even have nitrites in there. Will write back later..


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My tap and tank DO read a solid yellow, so keep striving.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> My tap and tank DO read a solid yellow, so keep striving.


Hey bud,

Day 22, no water change since Friday, you tell me lol. Aquarium cloudiness and greeness levels have dropped by at least 75%!


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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

DJRansome said:


> My tap and tank DO read a solid yellow, so keep striving.


Was only implying my experience with my test kit


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

engotski, thanks for sharing your experience. easywolf, your ammonia looks good now.


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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

First 3 months of setting up my first tank in 10 yrs was stressful for me because of the false reading I got with my API test kit. I did a lot of reading on the internet and seems like many have the same experience with the Ammonia test. Thats why I suggested to test his tap water....

Below is my reading today...one is tank water and other my tap. Lighting does play into the shade of green but it reads 0.25


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Holy cow you got Nitrates! Send me a few.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hey guys..Day 24...things are looking great, almist gave up there lol. Days 15-20 are crazy for cloudy green water...if you ever get them...don't give up.

Tank is 90% clear, did a 20-25% water change yesterday after 6 days. Ammonia test on left is from tap, right is from aquarium.


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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

Wana swap test kits? Lol looks like youre well on your way


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

engotski said:


> Wana swap test kits? Lol looks like youre well on your way


Seriously? Ain't i waiting for a nitrite or ammonia spike?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Of course. But starting to get nitrates means the beneficial bacteria are starting to grow.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Of course. But starting to get nitrates means the beneficial bacteria are starting to grow.


Day 28: Nitrates looking more orange.










Only issue now is that I had to empty 70% of the water to do a Levamisole HCL treatment for camallanus, drop the temp by 3.5 to 75F, and will need to repeat the process in 3 weeks...as well as a huge 70% water change in 3 days. Hopefully I don't have to start another cycle. Also I'm 100% sure the blue light or lights was causing the ugly green water and diatom bloom.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

PS> Phosphate reading is wrong as the picture was taken way past 3 minutes. Was a light green after 3 mins..


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Dang, had to do a a 70% water change on the night of Day 28 followed by a 50% on day 30 because of the medication treatment but all looks great now.

Hope this drop in Nitrates doesn't mean a new cycle, the rest of the parameters look good. Haha, what a mission this month has been...


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Day 40

Does anyone know a few tips to reach ammonia back to zero?
Nitrates look ok I think.

Thanks


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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

Have to stop feeding for a few days...50% water changes


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Thanks, makes sense. Only problem is I have this new Leleupi cichlid who's been pushed into a corner for almost 2 days now by a Leleupi who was already in the aquarium. I'm not sure it's eaten, hope it doesn't starve.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Well guys, thanks for everything. My final post here. Just wanted to say thanks to all for the help. This is what you helped me create  :










And here's one last update for old time's sake lol.

Day 41:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Why is it your final post?


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Why is it your final post?


Ha, thought I was talking to myself all this time.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I see you are posting in another forum, that is fine. Bring up the ammonia over there.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Dj! Think this is too much oxygen? I placed an airline tube through a crack of a wavemaker and it produces mega oxygen.

Should I turn off 1 or both wavemakers maybe at night so they can just relax?


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> I see you are posting in another forum, that is fine. Bring up the ammonia over there.


No, this is the best site for me.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hey DJ, guys, maybe you can help me out here. My dh just jumped from 14 to 23 in 2 days. Weird? Kh at 7.

And how bad is this ammonia reading?
Will add some prime..


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would change water right away to get the ammonia down and try to figure out why you are getting an ammonia reading on a cycled tank.

Did you test your tap water?

Not sure which parameter you mean when you say dH? Typo? GH maybe? Are you adding any chemicals to the tank other than dechlorinator?

If pH is stable then I usually don't worry about GH but it is odd that it is bouncing around if you are not adding anything to the tank.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Yes it was Gh sorry. Not sure why ammonia is present. Maybe i cleaned the filter too early and threw away the fine sponge to add poly fill and pinky filter. I also added a new filter. I also cleaned completely all the diatom and any algae from all rocks.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Forgot to mention I also added 14 tablespoons of Epsom salt Friday.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Epsom salt caused the GH swing...that is it's purpose. Don't add so much all at once. None of those things should have caused ammonia.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

I'll do a 25% (or bigger?) water change today after work and check parameters afterwards.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The reading looks like .5 to me so I would change 50%.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> The reading looks like .5 to me so I would change 50%.


Hi DJ, just saw your post. I did a 40% water change 30 mins ago and my Gh dropped to 17 from 24 and Kh to 6.

As for the Ammonia, this is starting to worry me a bit now. I always had 0 ammonia so I'm not sure what has happened. Here is a picture I just took. All 4 are ammonia tests.

First vial is my tap water. 2nd vial is a test done right after a 40% water change and 95% refill, 3rd vial is after I added stress coat + and full refill, 4th vial is a test before the water change.

Nitrite is at 0ppm and Nitrate 20ppm. What the heck am I doing wrong? I feed them at the most 2 times a day for 2-3 minutes each time.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Feed 30 seconds. But either way, the beneficial bacteria should be able to process that ammonia within 24 hours. IDK why you are getting ammonia. Look for some hidden debris that could be rotting. What about cleaning the filters?


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Did a 50% + water change 2 or 3 days ago followed by another 30% today. It's looking lighter and not reappearing at the same rate after a water change. I'll do a few more and everything should be running smooth after. Hopefully.

The right vial is the Ammonia level pre water change. Middle vial is right after the water change. Left is just PH. Will check again in 48hrs and maybe do a 20-25% water change in 3-5 days?


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

What in the world happened lol. My ammonia is going down slowly but I got a nitrite spike now. Please advise when possible. Ammonia looks like 0.25, nitrite sky high? Nitrate 20?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

That's how the cycle works...first the bacteria that eat the ammonia grow and they give off nitrite. THEN the bacterial that eat the nitrite grow.

Change water to get your nitrite down to 0.5 ppm and keep changing water daily so you can stay at that level.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> That's how the cycle works...first the bacteria that eat the ammonia grow and they give off nitrite. THEN the bacterial that eat the nitrite grow.
> 
> Change water to get your nitrite down to 0.5 ppm and keep changing water daily so you can stay at that level.


Hi DJRansome. So I did a 50% water change last night followed by a 55% water change this morning. Can you tell me what the readings are maybe you have a better eye for these readings than me?

After 1st water change:










And 2nd water change:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My reading is 8.0, 0.25, 0.25, 5.0


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> My reading is 8.0, 0.25, 0.25, 5.0


Thanks man!


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Looking even better? 24 hours after 3rd 50% water change.


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