# Sick Cichlid? Help.



## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

I have an Aulonocara Stuartgranti Cobue who for the longest time was the aggressor in my all-male 75 set up. Then one day out of the blue, he was just sitting in his cave, and I didn't think anything of it, perhaps got his **********.

He is not eating, and I have since moved him to a tank all himself, hoping he'd pop out of this stage, but 3 days later he doesn't appear to be eager to eat anything (hasn't eaten to my knowledge). Water parameters are fine and his coloring is still very bright blue. I don't see any signs of external sickness, just not sure what to do.


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## Bowfront (Jun 3, 2013)

Are you sure its a male and not a female holding? That would explain not eating. Does its mouth look swolen? More than one of us have been surprised thinking we had males until we found the fish holding eggs.

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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Mouth doesnt. Pretty sure its a male. That is what i paid for. Still has a very vibrant blue color.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Any signs of bloat? Does it 'try' to eat or spit food? Any white/clear threadlike feces?


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Hasnt tried to eat. I dont see any signs of bloat. Dont see any feces on the sand in the tank he is in.

He was just swimming around going up and down the glass but the second i stand up or walk near the tank he just darts right back to his rock.

I am wondering if he is just really timid, and maybe i should put him back in the 75 with the other cichlids. But the odd thing was about a weeknor so ago he was one of my more aggressive fish


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Just a single fish in a tank is usually very skittish. But the fish should still eat. I would keep him separate. Does he have a sunken or somewhat fat belly? You may want to try posting something about this fish in the Health and Illness section.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Just a single fish in a tank is usually very skittish. But the fish should still eat. I would keep him separate. Does he have a sunken or somewhat fat belly? You may want to try posting something about this fish in the Health and Illness section.


He doesn't have a fat or sunken belly. I will post. thanks.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

In reading the pinned post, here are the tank details.

Tank Size is 75 Gallons

Species: African Cichlids, all male tank

Tank has been cycled since just before Labor Day.

Water Parameters: 78.5 degrees, ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite: 0ppm, Nitrate: Usually between 20-30. pH is 8.0-8.2, gH is 13, kH is 10.

I've had the fish since late September, added with 8 other male cichlids. I feed them Spectrum cichlid pellets. I have not introduced new fish recently to the tank. I change 25-30% of the water weekly, treating the water with Prime in a 35gallon container in my garage (covered with lid) and buffering with Seachem Lake Malawi buffer and Rift Lake Salt.

Symptoms: My Stuartgranti Cobue has been the tank bully for some time. The only fish he wouldn't chase was the Taiwan Reef, but he was focusing a lot on the Ivory Head Mloto, and Ruby Red (has died last weekend). I tried to catch him and get him in the timeout tank, and since then, he has been hiding in the rocks and not eating.

Currently, he is in a 5 gallon tank that is fully cycled, with water from the 75 gallon tank while I wait for my 10 gallon tank to finish it's mini-cycle (should be good today or tomorrow). The cichlid shows no signs of eating and his brilliant blue color is starting to fade as you can start to see the stripes on his body now. Stopped by a friend who has owned cichlids, and recommended I treat with Maracide or something every other day.

While he is in the 5g, I treat the tank with the medicine at 5ml (the dosage is 10ml per 10g) every other day. Carbon has been removed from the filter. He has been in this tank since Monday, October 28 and to my knowledge has not eaten anything for about 2 weeks. I tossed 1 or 2 pellets in there seeing if he was interested, but the second anyone comes into view of the tank, he darts under his rock. I'm going to cover the tank up with a towel and see if he will be more interested in taking some food.

NO idea what's wrong, shows no external signs of Ich. Woman at Just Fish here in Newark said it's possible that he got his ********** in the tank one day, and she also thinks that he could have Ich that just isn't showing itself.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

What medicine are you using?


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> What medicine are you using?


mardel maracide with biospheres. Told the person, who has helped me from day 1 get this tank going...what the fish was doing. She said, stress can be the cause, but he should be eating, particulary if he's in a tank alone. she said he could have Ich, but it's not showing externally. I had Macryn (I think) -2 and she recommended this little bottle to treat him for a week and see how he reacts. Said if it's just stress, this won't harm him.

The fish...he will swim around, but the second...I mean, the instant he spots someone, he's behind his rock. I'm honestly not sure what happened. One day he's chasing other fish around. The next he's not even moving from his cave in the 75, even when it's feeding time.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

I just ordered some Metro tablets.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Yea that's probably a good idea. Not eating and hiding/reclusive are symptoms of bloat.

Once a fish stops eating, it can be tough to bring him back. I've had mixed results. Good luck


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Should I stop use of Maracide once I get the Metro? or continue to use that along with the Metro?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

pdiehm said:


> Should I stop use of Maracide once I get the Metro? or continue to use that along with the Metro?


Are you using Maracyn? I don't know if you can use them together. Sorry, can't help ya there...


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Going to stop using the maracide. Transplanting him to the 10 tonight and hopefully the metro is here tomorrow. And i can start treating. I have water gettin ready with 1 tbsp of epsom salt to put in the 10g tonight


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

11/1 update:

Cichlid is in the 10g tank. treated with 1 tsp Malawi buffer and 1 tbsp epsom salt. I put in 10ml of maracide in there as my Metro won't be here til tomorrow.

The fish appears to like the larger confines but still isn't eating. Also saw him doing some erratic/darting swimming with some flashing on the sand prior to the water change. Does this give any more clue as to what could be wrong?


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

Sounds like bloat to me.

I was treating mine with metro/prazi/epsom salt. Did 25 % WC daily. After 3 days, no improvement. So I did another 25% WC and only added epsom salt.

Following day I did another 25% WC, but used Tetra Parasite Clear + Epsom salt.

Noticed the following day fish were more alert. Followed the instructions, by the 4th day got all 3 fish to eat.

Feeding garlic soaked flakes with metro I purchased ready made from an online vendor.

The 3 fish are --- Black Fin Lethrinop, Azureus hap and Fireline Mloto.

Good luck...


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Metro will be here tomorrow. did 50% water change today with 1/2 tbsp epsom salt. will do another 50% tomorrow, and add in the metro tablet. Hopefully in a few days he starts to eat.


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

Oh, I also did not offer food for 3 days. The Mloto had a really bloated belly, so I waited until it went down before I started offering food.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

chopsteeks said:


> Oh, I also did not offer food for 3 days. The Mloto had a really bloated belly, so I waited until it went down before I started offering food.


I haven't offered food in a week. He hasn't eaten in like 2-2.5 weeks. wonder how he's still alive to be honest.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

chopsteeks said:


> Oh, I also did not offer food for 3 days. The Mloto had a really bloated belly, so I waited until it went down before I started offering food.


I haven't offered food in a week. He hasn't eaten in like 2-2.5 weeks. wonder how he's still alive to be honest.


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

Read somewhere about this fish with bloat. The fish had not eaten for over a month and did not exhibit being ill. Holding females will not eat for up to 3 weeks...


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Remember to redose the epsom salt every WC. It's a full tbsp. per 5 gallons.

Regardless of what the directions say, double dose the metro for each treatment. I would dose in the morning, do a WC after work, re dose, and then start over again the following day. Metro stays active in the water column for about 8 hours. I've had more success with this aggressive approach. If the fish shows any sign of improvement over 3-4 days, you can try a minimal amount of food. I would do the treatment for a full 5 days, or longer.

Like chop, I also had some success with Tetra Parasite Guard. So that's an option as well.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

So the metro schedule would be:

50% water change tomorrow, 5 gallons, 1 tbsp epsom salt, dose 1 tablet metro (if i am home when it comes).

Sunday morning, 1 tablet metro...sunday evening, 50% water change, 5 gallons, tbsp epsom salt, 1 tablet metro.

Do this daily for a week?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sounds like a plan. I never used tablets. Only the powder. If I remember correctly, one teaspoon of metro is a single dose for 167 gallons. I was treating a 125 gallons, which was a lot of work for treatment. I would dose about a tsp and a half. Not sure what one tablet is good for though...


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Received Fish Zole yesterday. Did a change, added a 250mg tablet (1 per 10g). Woke up and added another tablet. Have 5 gallons treating in garage for a change later and add another tablet.

When should i think about offering food. He scatters behind the rock anytime someone approaches the tank and any pellets that would go in just sit on the bottom.

Would love to take a pic but the hiding thing takes that possibility away.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

The water in the garage- what are you treating it with?

I'd wait a few days before trying to feed.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> The water in the garage- what are you treating it with?
> 
> I'd wait a few days before trying to feed.


Prime, 1/2 tsp Malawi Buffer (Seachem) and 1 tbsp epsom salt.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Significant breakthrough. My wife went over to the tank and he didnt run and hide. He was begging for food and my wife gave him a few pellets. He spit them out. She didnt know not to feed him.

She told me this and i was actually pretty happy he TRIED to eat.

But this sounds like bloat does it not?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sure sounds like bloat. Keep the treatment going and maybe you'll be able to save him. Sounds like it's starting to work.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

50% water change (give or take) done, treated with Prime, 1/2 tsp Malawi buffer and 1tbsp epsom salt. Dropped my pill into the tank, and set up another 5g in the bucket in the garage for treatment for tomorrow.

Once this is fixed (either good or bad), think I'm going to have a supply of Metro on hand at all times.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Full day 3 of metro treatment.

Fish still not showing any interest in food, though he did on Sunday, not since then. Just saw him scratching himself on the sand, and doing a strange thing with his mouth (almost like a yawn) but did it 4-5 times. Very very recluse still.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Update: he is completely grey. 5 days of double doasge of metro. Zero interest in food. Anytime a person walks by his tank he darts right back to his rocks.

Not medicating anymore and I am just going to see if this is all stress related and not really an illness.


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

Some times you have to treat the metro for 10 days. I would not stop at 5 days if he is still not eating.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

gverde said:


> Some times you have to treat the metro for 10 days. I would not stop at 5 days if he is still not eating.


I agree. Don't stop now!


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

I put a metro tablet in there. Just frustrated.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

11/8 update:

Last night before I went to bed, I put 2 medium pellets in the tank that were soaked with metro. I just looked in his tank, and the pellets are gone, and there's a bunch of turds in there.

What he was doing last night was taking a pellet in his mouth, looked like chewing it, and then spitting it out. The pellets were soft already, so the only thing I can think of is that he was breaking it down into smaller pieces (but the maroon won't go near the small pellets). Maybe bigger is really better. I'll make sure to tell my wife.

Anyhows that's the update. I need to do daily water changes as I have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and now, 0 nitrates. The only thing I can think of is because there hasn't been any ammonia or stuff in the tank for a week or so, the nitrates in the filter died out (or the medicine killed them off).

I got some STress-Zyme last night, hoping that will jump start the process again.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Quick video. Starting to get his color back, and you can see the pellet at the end that he's nibbling on. Nevermind the turds, they are about to come out in a few moments.youtu.be/vUxru56Gvpw[/youtube]


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

11/9 update. Tossed in 1.5 medium pellets soaked in metro.

He gobbled them up right away. To my knowledge didnt spit out


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

That's great. When done treating I would continue with the metro pellets for a couple weeks. It's awesome you got him to come around.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

the boy has colored up immensely. More and more active each day. I have been giving him a medium pellet soaked in metro powder, then frozen in the morning and in the pm.

My plan to re-introduce him to the 75 is this:

thursday after I get back from my business trip, while completely dark, re-adding him to the tank, and then re-arranging a rock or 2, and adding 2 rocks.

My hope is that adding him at night, in the dark, and re-doing the rocks a little will make it easier for him to get accepted back into the tank.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I would wait a couple weeks before adding him back in.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

When should i stop with epsom salt and start using my buffer and salt that is in the big tank?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

That's a good question. I don't know the answer either. I would probably slowly buffer it over the course of a couple days. I do think you should allow him to stay in the hospital for a while though. Bloat is often brought on by stress, so watch him closely when you toss him back in.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

11/19:

Doing very well, gaining more color every day. Have started to introduce the 75 gallon water to him.

For 10 gallons, I typically do 1 tsp Malawi Buffer, 3/4 tsp Lake Salt. For his last water change, I did 1/2 tsp buffer, and 1/4 tsp lake salt.

Next change, I will do 1/2 tsp buffer, 3/8 tsp lake salt, which will be what a normal 5 gallon dose is for me.

Probably Wednesday, 11/27, I will add him to the big tank at night with all the lights out and then put in 2 pieces of new rock, and move a piece of rock around.


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Added him back to the 75 tonight. I got 2 BN pleco's that I wanted to quarantine in the 10g for a few weeks...and figured if they had an issue, didn't want him in there and get whatever it would be.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

How is he doing?


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Blue is doing amazing. He has his vibrant blue color back.

I am in the process of selling my ivory head mloto because he isnt going to do well in my 75 and i dont have another big tank to get him some girls.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Nice to hear a success story...


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## pdiehm (Jul 9, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Nice to hear a success story...


yeah, think it was one of them things where I spend a lot of time in that room and noticed something off about him pretty quickly, got him out and started treating. He's got quite the personality, and has really started to take off once I got the ivory head out of the tank. He swims a lot more vs just looking for the ivory head.


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