# About the shells and some prblems....(breeding calvus +comp)



## phumsak (Jul 10, 2010)

hello guys,

i got some questions about breeding calvus and comp....... i need to know which shell is most suitable fish....

first of all, i need to introduce all of my fishs in the tank...

9 frontoza brurundi ..... about 2.5 - 3.5 inches......

4 liliupi ( make 3 inches , female 2 inches )

12 alto compessicep... ( variuos size from 1.5 '' to 2.5'' )

5 black calvus ( 2 males 3 females .... size male = 2.3-2.5'' female = 2'')

6 clown fish ...... 2''

2 demason....... 1.5 ''

are they o.k. to living together? will the fry will be o.k. after they hatch or will they be eaten real fast by other fish in the tank?

i put in alot of shells.... include 10 Harp shells , 5 apple shells ( cherry shell ) , 3 Selacosa Shells ... and many hiding place available in my tank...

Now i'm just wondering is this shell is perfectly fit to my fish? the entrance of the shell is between 2'' to 4 ''....)

i put the shell in for 5 days already and it seem like calvus male is biting and putting the female into cherry shell.... it bite female's tail very hard + very often and i'm so scare .... what should i do... the male is trying to push the female into a shell but i think it might be too big for them because the entrance is like 3 '' so i guess they might just fight for the shell.... ( but i saw the female does not fight back ... and not giving up the shell.... so i guess they might do something...else....)

Moreover, i heard that some shells will trap the fish.. inside... so i'm new with this....... i'm a really new breeder with this type of fish.... arhh..... help me plzz

Ps. I'm from Thailand and it's hard to find F0 fish so my fish is like F1 - F2 will they be able to breed?? because i think their blood should be really close to each other....

thank you for helping .... and if anyone know how to create PVC breeding cave for calvus and comp please let me know ... thank you ^_^


----------



## phumsak (Jul 10, 2010)

oh forget the picture

...http://www.seashellworld.com/page/S/PROD/Harp/S3605

this is harp shell...

http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10&pg=4

Tonna selacosa shell...

the last apple snail shell i think it should be fine for the fish ...


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of your tank?

I'd eliminate the demasoni and either the comps or the calvus because they can crossbreed.


----------



## phumsak (Jul 10, 2010)

**** it..... my local fish shop is trick me again.....

he said " comp and calvus is unable to crossbreed but white , black , yellow , red fin calvus sometime crossbreed between their species.... so i think there is a chance to crossbreed...

so what should i do? should i seperate them? what size of tank do you think will fit all 12 comps??

Ps. i will get rid of demason soon becoz i have a huge tank for malawi cichlid.... but it's very hard to catch them... 2 of them are very small and harmless for now...


----------



## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Looks like a lot of work here before you are able to salvage fry let alone raise them. I'm definitely not trying to discourage you from Altos as they're, by far, my favorite. However, it'll just take some understanding about what you're dealing with.

First, you were tricked. Altolamprologus of any species can and will cross breed. As a matter of fact most cichlids can. Most certainly however, fish from the same genus will recognize each other as mates.

For 12 Altos the tank size is an issue sure but the number of males is a bigger issue. Most male altos will welcome a harem of up to 6 females although I generally only expose 3 or 4 to a single male because he can only do so much and the females tend to fight when kept in larger numbers without males. That being said, ALtos behave differently when kept in a mob. For instance, 12 Altos in a 55 gallon would, most likely, do fine even if there were 6 males and 6 females. In large groups they tend to just, well, "mob".

For your breeding purposes, if the shell is being used it's the right shell. Males generally violently invite females to spawn in shells and, if they fight, they're not fighting over the shell but instead they're fighting over the fact that the female may not be ripe or ready to spawn. I use conch shells with the bottom sawed off and siliconed to a small plate of glass so they don't ti over and suffocate the inhabitants.

Also for your breeding purposes, I would separate each species in groups of 4, 1 male to 3 females. Sell/return or trade the rest. I would keep these groups in nothing smaller than a standard 30 gallon will plenty of hiding. Ideally I would do a 50 gallon with a standard footprint and you can then include a few other community tangs.

You should also et a 10-20 gallon aquarium ready to rear the fry. ALto fry VERY hard to keep alive and you can expect to lose entire broods a few times before you get the knack. Even when you do get the knack many of us realize that 2 years of tedious fish raising is a lot of work. But whatever floats your boat. You will eventually have to remove the fry from the parents anyway because they will eat the fry. I suggest you move the fry while they are still in the shell/cave.

Next, Leleupi will eat your fry, clown loaches will eat your fry, demasoni will eat your fry and possibly damage other fish in the tank. Frontosa will eat your fry and other Altos (Other than the parents, but even the parents will eat them after awhile) will eat your fry.

The frontosa won't be a great threat until the fry have left the shell, so again moving them before they leave is best. HTH and good luck


----------



## phumsak (Jul 10, 2010)

thank you for your kindly help,

so i'm thinking about buy 2 of 40 Gallon tank...( 28x18x18 ) and 3 female + 1 male in each tank? and if i'm planning to breed leptosoma too will it be o.k. to put some in here too? becuase they are living in upper part of the tank.... and they won't interupt other calvus + compessicep...

thank you....


----------



## phumsak (Jul 10, 2010)

the other things is ..... if i have 3 males in the same tank.. what about i buy 4 more females.... and put them in the large tank of 3 males + 12 females.... what do you think? becuase maybe it will increase the rate of breeding..... and what size of tank do you recommend please tell me

thank you....


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Multiple males in almost any size tank can be a problem. I have a 72" tank with 2 males and there are many days when I think I will have to remove one.


----------



## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

1 male will mate as many females as he can. There is no need for extra males to increase breeding rates. I've had males spawning at multiple shell sites many times.

Also, Calvus/comps can have upwards of 150 fry each spawn and you will need large tanks to raise them. One of the many reasons Alto fry don't make is because they need space and VERY clean water. When I'm rearing alto fry (Keep in mind that I only plan to keep about 50 per 20 gallon footprint). A single 55 gallon tank, if maintained rigorously, could/should be able to raise an entire brood with minimal casualties (Maybe 100 or so raised to 1.5 inches and then it would be wise to sell or spread them out.)

Like DJ said multiple males can be a problem and usually is. You would need a huge tank because the losers from fights must have some other territory to escape to. That being said they will even in something real big like a 300+ gallon setup, inevitably run in to one another and they will, at some point fight. There is no sense in losing these, usually expensive, fish... Just reduce the males and you'll be fine.

ALso, the only leptosoma I would attempt in a 40 gallon is the dwarf "Utinta" variety. Even then, 40 is a bit small. However they, the Altos and the Cyps, shouldn't bother each other.


----------



## phumsak (Jul 10, 2010)

so i will prepare 50 gallon tank.... and what is the total number of each fish should i put in?

1. 5 calvas black or compessicep......

2. how many lepto should i put in purpose of breeding? and if i put lepto kigoma or tricolor will they be fine in this size of tank? and what size is an adult size that can be good to breed?

3. any other fish or idea? thank you....


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the 50 gallon tank you are thinking of? Some of them are too small for cyps also.


----------



## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

A standard 4 foot tank is too small for Jumbo/tri color cyps IMO, I only say that because I've had lots of Cyp slimming losses in my 4 foot setups and literally none in my 6 foot setups. They will breed in a 4 footer I'm sure but...

Jumbo Cyps breed at 2.5+ inches but I'm not sure what age they are mature at. Calvus are sexually mature at 2 years and sometimes a bit older. They're usually between 2-3 inches at 2 years depending on breeding stock and how they were raised.

In a 4 foot 50 gallon I would be ok with 1 male Alto to 4 female ALtos. No species of cyp is worth keeping long term in groups less than 12. Make sure that the females outnumber the males at least 2 to 1 although 3 or more would be even better.

if you can let go of the cyps, for their sake, I would suggest Paracyps, maybe a group of 10, I'm not sure what m/f ratio is best for them. Both Calvus and Paracyps thrive in low light and will share lots of rock work.


----------



## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

phumsak said:


> oh forget the picture
> 
> ...http://www.seashellworld.com/page/S/PROD/Harp/S3605
> 
> ...


I purchased my shells from the same place and I use the shell below that one: Tonna Tessalata -Large

They have worked fantastically well for me with comps and calvus.

My orange fin *compressiceps* love them


















My *calvus* love them too


















My brevis love them too


----------



## phumsak (Jul 10, 2010)

Razzo can i see the overall tank size and environment? maybe i can copy from you and setup my new tank and i won't make any mistake..... so far i just bought a new EHEIM classic 2213 and 2217prepare for a new tank..... any idea of sand , how many shells or other things i should prepare?

thank you very much... so far i just bought 10 compessicepts from the fish farm (1.5' - 1.7') compessiciept and this will be a new plan for my future ( next year ) plan..... i wil put them in the same tank with frontosa and other fish from now on and wait them to grow enough to breed.... ( how long do you think they will grow to 2-3 ''? )

thank you very much .... to answer me... ^_^


----------



## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Are you anywhere near Surin? I have friends there.

Here's my 55 with 6 calvus (black congo white pearl) and 2 comps (Muzi gold head). Click on the image to see larger size. I keep about 9 or 10 shells in there. Spawning did not start until I broke up the line of sight in the tank into three distinct regions with rocks. The altos can be in three different areas of the tank and not see the other areas. They have gone nuts breeding after I made that change. I use arragonnite for substrate.










Here's my 125 that I built into the wall of the house I sold in March (it originally had 6 orange fin comps, 6 brevis kitumba and 22 cyps). My sister has been baby sitting my orange fins for me and orange fins have gone crazy breeding.





































And, since I am digging up "old" pictures, here's my 265 frontosa tank that I sold in Feb/March













































That was an awesome "man cave" sniff, sniff :wink:


----------



## phumsak (Jul 10, 2010)

oh.... if i plan to breed calvus in a small tank ( maybe 50 gallons ) because the big tank is where my frontosa and leleupi take place...... do you have any recommended equipment or environment? i need it to be clean and easy for them to breed .....

your tank is perfect and make your house look even more good.

However, cypt can go along with calvus? and did cypt give birth to any of you yet? If it possible i might buy a larger tank and combine calvus + compes + cypt as you suggest me to do...

thank you....

i plan to put all my calvus and compessicep with frontosa for another 6 months, wait them to pair up and grow up little more..... can they get along with other? ( frontosa and leleupi )


----------



## phumsak (Jul 10, 2010)

Moreover, can i have a picture of paracypt too>? i can't find any picture of this fish....

and can juliodochromis and lamprologus breed in the same tank of calvus?


----------

