# Rams, Angels, and ???



## JMJ240sx (Jan 17, 2010)

Just got a 55 that I want to make a heavily planted tank with rams and angels for sure, maybe some oto's and possibly some rasbora, or tetra or something else that is appropriate and schools. Using AqAdvisor it gives me a warning with only 4 rams, and 2 angelfish, what would be a good schooling fish and what would be good stocking levels?


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## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

If it is really heavily planted, I think you could go a bit heavier on the angels, but no more than 2 pair IMO. Which ram? Bolivian or german? I would go for tetras and/or pencilfish. Keep in mind angels will eat small fish, but we are talking neon small, so avoid fish around that size. Also avoid nippy species serpae, black phantoms, ect. Angel fins are easy targets. I like cardinals and rummynose with angel. They school nice and look nice. Smaller specimens can be eaten though, but heavily planted.... I say keep 10-15 ea. of 2 species or 20-30 of a single species. Also, I would keep at least 5 oto's


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## adam79 (Jun 27, 2007)

If it is really heavily planted, I think you could go a bit heavier on the angels, but no more than 2 pair IMO. Which ram? Bolivian or german? I would go for tetras and/or pencilfish. Keep in mind angels will eat small fish, but we are talking neon small, so avoid fish around that size. Also avoid nippy species serpae, black phantoms, ect. Angel fins are easy targets. I like cardinals and rummynose with angel. They school nice and look nice. Smaller specimens can be eaten though, but heavily planted.... I say keep 10-15 ea. of 2 species or 20-30 of a single species. Also, I would keep at least 5 oto's


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

In a heavily planted tank, 5 otos will make minimal impact and rarely be seen. I have 10 in my semi planted 30 gallon tank.

Blue rams are better suited to heavily planted tanks, but they require slightly higher temperatures than what angels and most other cichlids will like. Blue rams are a pairing dwarf and if you want to include another dwarf species in the tank, I would suggest no more than two pairs. If you do go Bolivian rams, I'd possibly look at six.

To save on a little agro, I would only go with one pair of angels.

I almost always suggesta a pair or trio of another dwarf cichlid. If your going with Blue rams, I like a trio of dicrossus filamentosus. If your going with Bolivian rams, either a pair of Laetacara dorsigera or a trio of an apistogramma species.


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

DeadFishFloating said:


> In a heavily planted tank, 5 otos will make minimal impact and rarely be seen. I have 10 in my semi planted 30 gallon tank.
> 
> Blue rams are better suited to heavily planted tanks, but they require slightly higher temperatures than what angels and most other cichlids will like. Blue rams are a pairing dwarf and if you want to include another dwarf species in the tank, I would suggest no more than two pairs. If you do go Bolivian rams, I'd possibly look at six.
> 
> ...


 =D>

My suggestion:

1 pair angel

1 pair bolivian ram

1 pair L. dorsignera (its worth it, he's biased because he has them but it's a fantastic fish!!!) :thumb:

That's your 'centerpiece fish'

to fill it out, if I were in your shoes I would add the following:

30 paracheirodon simulans (they're not cardinals, they're not neons, they're false neons. Look for the green/blue eye. More interesting behaviour, hardier than either neons or cardinals)

Angelfish are very lazy animals and do not like hunting fish unless they are at the surface. Buy the simulans at 1" and you will not lose any.








labeled neon or false neon

15 corydoras aeneus










1 pair bushynose pleco


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

DeadFishFloating said:


> In a heavily planted tank, 5 otos will make minimal impact and rarely be seen. I have 10 in my semi planted 30 gallon tank.
> 
> Blue rams are better suited to heavily planted tanks, but they require slightly higher temperatures than what angels and most other cichlids will like. Blue rams are a pairing dwarf and if you want to include another dwarf species in the tank, I would suggest no more than two pairs. If you do go Bolivian rams, I'd possibly look at six.
> 
> ...


 =D>

My suggestion:

1 pair angel

1 pair bolivian ram

1 pair L. dorsignera (its worth it, he's biased because he has them but it's a fantastic fish!!!) :thumb:

That's your 'centerpiece fish'

to fill it out, if I were in your shoes I would add the following:

30 paracheirodon simulans (they're not cardinals, they're not neons, they're false neons. Look for the green/blue eye. More interesting behaviour, hardier than either neons or cardinals)

Angelfish are very lazy animals and do not like hunting fish unless they are at the surface. Buy the simulans at 1" and you will not lose any.








labeled neon or false neon

15 corydoras aeneus










1 pair bushynose pleco


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## JMJ240sx (Jan 17, 2010)

Why are blue rams better suited for a heavily planted tank than bolivian? I had originally intended to stock bolivians due to the price of GBR around here. Also is the suggestion for 1 pair rams, 1 pair L. dorsignera for any reason other than having another species in the tank? Or would I be fine having a second pair of rams instead? Also big pieces of driftwood on small pieces of slate stink >.< Think I have half the sand in the tank sitting on it to keep it down. Air bubbled out of the **** thing for over 8 hours. Also how did you determine wether corydoras or oto's are a better fit for the tank?


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I would have to disagree with *DFF* for once ... blue rams aren't better in planted tanks becuase of their higher temp range. Most of our aquarium plants (at least here in the states) don't do well in 86F+ temps ...


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

OH no. Nope! I didn't read it. Don't believe it. Won't believe it. Shhallallallallalalalala.......

*dwarfpike* disagreed with meeee........ 

It's all good mate. I'm not really an expert planted tank person so can't comment too much on them. My semi-planted tank is low tech and only has echinodoras and vallisneria species in it. It does spend 5 months over summer fluctuating between 84F and 89F and only drops down to 77F during winter.

I said Blue rams would be better suited to a heavily planted tank becuase they don't quite spend as much time sifting the substrate as Bolivian rams do, and are quite happy searching for food off the substrate up amongst the plant leaves.

In a 55 gallon tank I would definately have more than a pair of Bolivian rams. They are a social cichlid and the interaction between members of a small school is part of thier attraction. However if you prefer Blue rams, which are a pairing cichlid, I would select another dwarf cichlid to skip on the conspecific aggression that would develop between two pairs or even a pair and a third Blue ram.

I did mention that the temperatures that Blue rams prefer aren't really suitable for most other cichlids, including Angels.

I keep forgetting that a 55 gallon is only 13 inches wide. I would stick to a pair of Angels and a group of Bolivian rams and skip on a third cichlid species. Sorry I'm used to thinking about my 50 gallon tank that is 18 inches wide.

As for schooling fish, my favourites are rummynose tetras, green neon tetras (Paracheirodon simulans), lemon tetras, marbled hatchetfish and dwarf pencilfish (Nannostomus marginatus). If you go with a single school of dithers, I would look to do atleast 20+ in the school. If you go for two schools of dithers I would look to do atleast a dozen fish in each school.

As I mentioned in my first post, I would have a large group of otocinclus in the tank, atleast 12. I would not include any corydoras or bristlenose plecos in the setup, but that's just my personal taste. If you want to add another catfish species, consider looking at a pair of royal whiptails (Sturisoma Panamense).


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## JMJ240sx (Jan 17, 2010)

Ok that sounds like what I was thinking, I'm sold! Pair of angels, 4 bolivians, school of either green neon, or rummynose tetras, and a good pile of oto's. Just gotta get the filters up and running with some foam from my other tank, and I'll start pricing fish. Thanks for the help, all the replies were exactly the info I needed.


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

A large school of Cardinal tetra looks amazing in a planted tank


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

DeadFishFloating said:


> I said Blue rams would be better suited to a heavily planted tank becuase they don't quite spend as much time sifting the substrate as Bolivian rams do, and are quite happy searching for food off the substrate up amongst the plant leaves.
> 
> I keep forgetting that a 55 gallon is only 13 inches wide. I would stick to a pair of Angels and a group of Bolivian rams and skip on a third cichlid species. Sorry I'm used to thinking about my 50 gallon tank that is 18 inches wide.


Yes, that part is very true. Bolivians like an open area to pick the sand substrate, much more so than the blue rams.

And yeah, I've passed on free 55 gallon tanks before becuase they are only 12" wide. I much prefer my 40 and 50 gallon breeders (both 36"x18" footprints) over a 55 gallon. I even dislike my 38 gallon (which is 36"x15") that was sold as a 40 breeder. Now I always bring a measuring tape with me when I shop for aquariums!!


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## JMJ240sx (Jan 17, 2010)

I probably would have gone bigger, but I won this one at thet local swap meet raffle.


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