# Trouble Breeding Rams



## setevene (Feb 13, 2014)

I have a 29 gallon, planted tank with a pair of Blue Rams, a school of Lampeyes, and two Otos. The tank has been up and running for a few months now and the pair of Rams were the last addition which was about a month ago. The female has had a large, red belly every since I brought the pair home, but has not laid any eggs yet. Could this be since the pair is somewhat new to the tank or that they are stressed out? Or any other problems?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Can you post a picture of the rams?


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## JumpMaster (Feb 3, 2014)

What are your water parameters


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## setevene (Feb 13, 2014)

I posted the pic as my avatar. As for the parameters, my pH is quite high. Could that be a something that is inhibiting them right now?


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

setevene said:


> I posted the pic as my avatar.


People want to see a full size picture to tell you if its actually a pair. Avatars are like <150x150 pixels.


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## setevene (Feb 13, 2014)

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/phnix17
-I've posted some pictures here


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## MizOre (Sep 20, 2013)

Can you post them somewhere that doesn't require a log-in and account to see them?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Posting pictures-
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?nomobile=1&f=50&t=255435


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## setevene (Feb 13, 2014)




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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I'm far from a ram expert but it appears you have a pair. I'd give them some more time to settle in. Keep your water fresh and your nitrates low. If you feel certain tankmates are causing an issue with them, try separating.


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## notho2000 (Dec 8, 2012)

You haven't mentioned the temperature of your water but it should be between 80 and 86F, more towards the high end to stimulate breeding behavior. Also dropping the pH some to around 6 will help. As already mentioned, they are very sensitive to nitrates so a good water change regimen is important.


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## setevene (Feb 13, 2014)

Right now the temp is at 78, but I do not have an adjustable heater, I will have to go out an buy one soon. I do quite frequent water changes and my nitrates never go above 20ppm.


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## setevene (Feb 13, 2014)

Also I most likely have hard water. Thats what I used to fill the tank during start up, but I have only been replacing with RO water. Will this slowly soften the water over time for the rams?


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

setevene said:


> Also I most likely have hard water. Thats what I used to fill the tank during start up, but I have only been replacing with RO water. Will this slowly soften the water over time for the rams?


You have to stop doing that right away. R/O water in its pure form is not safe for any fish, unless it is being used for top ups to replace water lost to evaporation. In a standard "water out>water in" type water change, replacing with R/O is highly dangerous.

I suggest you read up on GH, KH, and TDS so you can gain an understanding of how these work and relate to eachother. It will really help you in the future if you want to be keeping sensitive, soft, acidic water type fish like this.

Basically, R/O has a TDS of almost zero and a GH and KH of zero. That's not natural (except maybe in pure rain drops) for fish. What you can do is gradually replace your tap water with_ remineralized_ R/O water. You would use a hardness booster and a KH booster to get the R/O water to values which closely mimic the values the fish comes from in the wild. This would be stable water. R/O water in its pure form is not stable. Any addition of alkaline or acid substances can throw the pH around wildly as there is no KH.

Please forgive my rambling. I'm not with it today.


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## setevene (Feb 13, 2014)

The RO water I've been getting is from Foster&Smith, which is the head of liveaquaria.com

I usually don't put much in at one time, but I also put in some additives to put back in minerals and other organics in the water. 
pablo111, do you use your tap water with tap water conditioner, I might just go back to doing that if that is better for the fish.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

I actually would suggest you stick with R/O water as you say you have hard tap water and that is not ideal for rams. What you might consider is buying an RO/DI unit for home use and making the water yourself. It's safe once you remineralize the water and raise the KH. There are affordable products for doing this. This way you can make ideal water for your rams. And like someone else said, you should change your heater out for one that can maintain a higher temperature. Blue rams like warmer water than 78F.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

To add to what Pablo said about adding RO- if you're just topping off and not doing a an actual water change then your tank water hardness will stay the same and your nitrates will be through the roof.

What are your water tests telling you?


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## setevene (Feb 13, 2014)

I have been adding RO in for water changes, I just do small frequent water changes. I just got done testing my water and the nitrates are at 10ppm now.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

setevene said:


> I have been adding RO in for water changes, I just do small frequent water changes. I just got done testing my water and the nitrates are at 10ppm now.


I'd be interested to hear how low your gH and kH are now that you've been doing R/O changes. Seriously though, don't do it any more.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Here's some light reading regarding the use of RO/DI water in aquariums.
http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/20 ... correct_ro
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com ... .html#rodi


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## setevene (Feb 13, 2014)

All great suggestions here, but the only one I am still stuck on now is how to soften the water without have to go out and find peat moss like everyone on here says. I am slowly changing the pH since it was around 8! But it is around 7.7, which isn;t much of a change but I do it in such small amounts and see if it stabilizes before moving on again. Also I am hoping to pick up a thermometer that has sets on it so I will be able to heat the water to the ram's liking.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

setevene said:


> All great suggestions here, but the only one I am still stuck on now is how to soften the water without have to go out and find peat moss like everyone on here says. I am slowly changing the pH since it was around 8! But it is around 7.7, which isn;t much of a change but I do it in such small amounts and see if it stabilizes before moving on again. Also I am hoping to pick up a thermometer that has sets on it so I will be able to heat the water to the ram's liking.


If you don't know what KH is or how it works, I suggest you don't alter your tap water. Changing pH without understanding kH is not a good thing to do. Again, don't add pure R/O water to your aquarium.

I don't suggest that you soften with peat moss as it is an un-exact method. You're much better off remineralizing the R/O water to get the characteristics (pH/gH/kH) that most benefit the fish you have.


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## setevene (Feb 13, 2014)

pablo111 said:


> You have to stop doing that right away. R/O water in its pure form is not safe for any fish.





pablo111 said:


> I actually would suggest you stick with R/O water.





pablo111 said:


> Again, don't add pure R/O water to your aquarium.


This is quite confusing for me. :-?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

setevene said:


> pablo111 said:
> 
> 
> > You have to stop doing that right away. R/O water in its pure form is not safe for any fish.
> ...


Understandably so. I suggest reading the articles I posted along with this one. As far as I'm aware, adding RO/DI water to help lower pH is a common practice. I would however recommend a GH and KH test kit as a prerequisite as pablo has suggested.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

setevene said:


> pablo111 said:
> 
> 
> > You have to stop doing that right away. R/O water in its pure form is not safe for any fish.
> ...


How can it possibly be confusing? I explained it to you. Use R/O, but remineralize it. Don't use it straight.
Or, if your kH in your tap water is high enough, you can mix some R/O water with your tap water before adding it to the tank, and use the same exact mix every time. You'd need a pretty high kH out of tap, say 12, meaning that if you did a 50/50 tap/RO mix you'd end up with a KH of 6 in the tank, which would be acceptable. That was a bit too complicated to explain to you initially though so I left it out.

Basically, you don't want pure R/O or an "uncontrolled" amount of R/O in the tank. Without measuring hardness and KH, adding R/O is insane. I hope I've explained this so you can understand.

Again, if you don't understand what KH is or how it affects PH, you'd be a little crazy to use R/O. You'll harm your fish.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

pablo111 said:


> *I actually would suggest you stick with R/O water* as you say you have hard tap water and that is not ideal for rams. What you might consider is buying an RO/DI unit for home use and making the water yourself. It's safe once you *remineralize the water *and raise the KH. There are affordable products for doing this. This way you can make ideal water for your rams. And like someone else said, you should change your heater out for one that can maintain a higher temperature. Blue rams like warmer water than 78F.


 :thumb: 

Nutrafin KH booster

Kent R/O RIGHT

Use these two products to make safe RO water.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

pablo111 said:


> pablo111 said:
> 
> 
> > *I actually would suggest you stick with R/O water* as you say you have hard tap water and that is not ideal for rams. What you might consider is buying an RO/DI unit for home use and making the water yourself. It's safe once you *remineralize the water *and raise the KH. There are affordable products for doing this. This way you can make ideal water for your rams. And like someone else said, you should change your heater out for one that can maintain a higher temperature. Blue rams like warmer water than 78F.
> ...


Seachem Replenish is another such product.


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## laurainthesky00 (Apr 18, 2014)

I made the unfortunate mistake with RO water. I had never had to worry previously about pH buffering because I had cichlid sand. My fish all survived without too much stress, but the crash killed my biofilter which opened up new problems. Seachem replenish and Seachem neutral regulator have made my life a lot easier. To my understanding neutral regulator is a poor choice if you have plants or plant quality lights related to risk of algae blooms with phosphate. Phosphate is also not natural for aquariums.


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