# Will they live together ?



## Konceppt (Sep 6, 2010)

Hi all,

I sold 3 frontosa Burundi today.I am left with 2 females about 4 inches
Tomorrow I am rehoming 4 yellow labs,a jack Dempsey and two blue mbuna kenyi.
Will they co-exist for a while until I can move them?
I also have 100 convict fry and 100 yellow lab fry.
Can they be put in the same tank?


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## soulpride (Aug 30, 2009)

Konceppt said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I sold 3 frontosa Burundi today.I am left with 2 females about 4 inches
> Tomorrow I am rehoming 4 yellow labs,a jack Dempsey and two blue mbuna kenyi.
> ...


depending how big is the tanks? most likely the kenyi have rule the other tank you putting the other fish in. if this is the case you will have to redecorate most of the rock work in the tank so the other fish can claim some caves. i don't know how long you keep them in with the kenyi. i think the jd might be able to stand his/her ground. for the fry again how big is the tank? you can give it a shot.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd use dividers and separate the fronts...the mbuna and the JD.

I assume the 200 fry will be in a separate fry tank?

Hope you have some REALLY big tanks, LOL.


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## Konceppt (Sep 6, 2010)

Yes the fry will be separated.the labs,mbuna and jd all came from the same person,living in the same tank.


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

Why oh why must people mix africans with sa cichlids. They both require diferent water for starters and dont want to be so negative but I am tired of hearing people doing this and saying well they work together or they never fight. They are not naturally found together so no they should not be in the same tank. Ph requirements are diferent for the fish.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

torin32 said:


> Why oh why must people mix africans with sa cichlids. They both require diferent water for starters and dont want to be so negative but I am tired of hearing people doing this and saying well they work together or they never fight. They are not naturally found together so no they should not be in the same tank. Ph requirements are diferent for the fish.


For the same reason people call Central American cichlids, South American cichlids... they just don't know any better. :thumb:


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

Be a smart *** all yuou want but you no I am right there water perameters and aggressions are no were the same. That is the point I am making, I am sorry if my knowledge doesnt fall to central american or south, I am an African keeper. But I do know not to mix or to pretend it works.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

torin32 said:


> Be a smart *** all yuou want but you no I am right there water perameters and aggressions are no were the same. That is the point I am making, I am sorry if my knowledge doesnt fall to central american or south, I am an African keeper. But I do know not to mix or to pretend it works.


When it comes to generalizations, failure is inevitable with cichlids. There are parts of Central America, where the ph and hardness, is higher than parts of Lake Malawi. There are Central and South American cichlids that are much less aggressive than the average Malawian... there are some that are more aggressive.

Instead of speaking in generalizations, we need to be specific. In a 180 gallon, you are unlikely going to have an issue putting a single JD, a single convict in with the average Malawian mbuna or Hap. Breeding situations are another story of course, as then we are dealing with the differences between mouth brooding cichlid requirements and substrate spawners. That is an issue of New World vs. Old World, just breeding requirements are different.

Many of the West African cichlids, such as the Pelvicachromis come from water that is quite soft.. and they can make interesting tank mates for "some" South Americans.

Incidentally, I have a 125 gallon that is primarily Malawian, except for the breeding group of Geophagus steindachneri.


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

double post sorry my bad.


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

Now you are just playing percentages. Like I said before hmm it worked for me once but in general yes I guess the odd thing can work. There always exceptions to the rules but a newbie person trying to learn the correct way of things thats not exactly a good path to choose. We as keepers do this to what mimick the environment of the fish we like example recreate there environments. Which means tank mates water peramters things that are alike in there natural habitat. That is the point I am trying to make, we dont see jd's in african lakes do we etc. You seem very inteligent and a great help to most people I dont doubt that, but I would never mix africans I dont even like to mix from diferent lakes. We all have our opinions though don't we. No harm or disrespect to you sir. I do enjoy reading most of your comments.


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## Konceppt (Sep 6, 2010)

My question was not a permanenet thing,simply a temporary solution to a temporary problem.
I was selling the frontosa but needed to mix for one night.

either way i didnt have to do it in the end which meant that the frontosa had to go into a smaller tank than i would have liked.


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

Why is it that ph requirements are so important. All the fish at any shop are kept in the same water from the tap. Most of the fish we keep have been tank raised for years so ph isn't really that important. Know if ur buying wild fish then I can't argue that ph is important and would not recommend anyone putting them in a different ph. Know as far as myself I wouldn't keep africans with anything else but africans, but I do keep south and central americans together. Like I always say to each his own.


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## Konceppt (Sep 6, 2010)

Agreed
It has long been my understanding that many breeds will grow to adapt and tolerate most common ph levels
It is a constant fluctuation in ph levels that harm them

Providing you can maintain a constant ph (be it above or below that of natural habitat)
The fish will adapt and live happily


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

Torin32 is making it seem like if these fish are coming from the lakes and rivers of africa and south, central america which chances are isn't the case. These fish come from farms or are locally bred which ph isn't really a factor because those fish are aclimated to what ever ph there in which I greatly doubt is anywere near what u would find in there native water. Anyway torin if you disagree with mixing lakes, and continents please don't use ph as a point of debate there's so many other reasons why it shouldn't be done but ph is really not a strong argument


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Some of us like to keep the fish in an environment as close to the Lake as reasonable, and buy from others who do the same. I have yet to find a fishkeeper or vendor I have bought fish from who does not keep their African Rift Lake fish at pH=7.8 or higher.

Even if you acclimate your fish to your tap water, pH is important because if the acclimatization is too drastic, the fish will experience pH shock. This has happened to me when I thought the pH match was "close enough."


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

It helps to promote healthy breeding not saying they wont breed in dif ph . The reason most people keep fish is to recreate there environment. I think most people are getting away from that and I know some will say thats not why i keep them . Than what is it just cause they look cool, same goes as mixing it works some times is like playing russian rullet would you try it. I will take my chances with proper ph and tank mates as specified by proffesionals. Research before buying also helps eleviate alot of these problems. How many times you come in here and see fish in 10 or 20 g tanks and asking why they are not doing so great.


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## Konceppt (Sep 6, 2010)

luckily for me,london tap water varies from 7.8-8.2 anyway


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

torin32 said:


> we dont see jd's in african lakes do we


No, but a good portion of mbuna and other Malawians kept in captivity, NEVER encounter each other in their natural habitat. Their geographically isolated. It's only in captivity, that many of these species, encounter each other. Nothing 'natural' about keeping many of these species together as they will never see each other in their natural habitat.

In general, I agree 100% on tank raised fish being kept under local water conditions. Usually, tap water, unaltered, but declorinated, is more then adequate, under most situations. If all your fish get unaltered tap water, what's the difference anyways?

Nevertheless, the majority of water bodies in Central America would fall with in the pH range of lake Malawi. I've seen lake Malawi's range listed as pH 7.2 - 8.6, pH 7.4 -8.6, and pH 7.8 -8.6. Even if you take the higher range, a good portion of C.A. water bodies would fall in this range. For example, Lake Nicaragua, the largest lake in C. A. I've seen actual readings listed from pH 7.8- 8.5, depending on where and when the reading was taken. Lake Managua, another large lake, is basically a soda lake, with pH 9.5 and even higher!

JD come from an area that is typically pH high 7's to mid 8's. Most of the water is as hard, and sometimes many, many times harder then lake Malawi, as limestone is the prevailing rock though out most of it's range.

Of course water chemistry will always be a little different from one water body to the next. Unlikely for 2 water bodies to have the EXACT same water chemistry. But even if you alter your tap water, who's to say the water chemistry in your tank resembles lake Malawi more then it does the hard, basic water of C.A.?

A lot of aquarists have their reasons not to mix African with C.A. But water chemistry isn't a reason, at all, not to mix Malawians with C.A. No basis for it, as the majority of C.A. cichlids come from rather similar water chemistry and will do more then fine in the same hard, basic water that rift lake cichlids are kept in. IMO, it's primarily a question of 'taste', wether you mix different types of fishes or not.

Of course some mixes will work, and some won't, or are unlikely to, depending on a variety of factors. Tank size, always being significant. But then a lot of tanks with the same or similar types of fishes, do not end up working well either. Some aquarists have their reasons to mix -----sometimes it's a temporary solution to a shortage of tank space; for grow up purposes when fish would be swallowed whole kept in another tank; to manage agression when fish are simply intolerant of like-kind tankmates, etc.


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

Don't get me wrong I am against mixing lakes, or from certain parts of the world for different reasons other than ph. And dj ur saying water is important but on many post on here I've read, you have said that a steady ph is better than trying to raise the ph to that of the lake. I've also read in some of ur post that its better to just open and drop fish into a tank when ordered online. Anyway I don't mean any disrespect to anyone but we will never have our tanks with the same condition as that of the lakes. That like trying to say that animals in zoos are kept in the same conditions as they would be in the wild its just never gonna happen. Example most people including myself paint the back of tanks black and some say its to create a biotope sorry but in all the under water videos I've seen of lake malawi I've never seen black in the background the water gets darker the longer you get from the shot in the foreground but it never gets to a solid black. Just my 2cents


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