# Possible Bloat



## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

I have a female Venustus that seems off for the last month or so
I have quarantined it in a MED tank and on the second round of METRO treatment with no improvement in the fish. It has not eaten in a month or so, and is starting to show signs of thinning. It mouths the food, but spits it out, which makes me believe its Bloat

Today I noticed a long string feces from its anus, which makes me sure its Bloat.

What other options do I have. 2 Treatments of METRO with no improvements.

is this fish doomed?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

If it still mouths the food and spits it out, I'd make some medicated food. Getting even some medication into the fish is substantially better than waterborne metro which isn't terribly water soluble.
Check this link for more info.

How much are you dosing? It's difficult to overdose metro. I've used upwards of 300mg per 10g with no ill effects.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

I am definetly overdosing the METRO but still no positive results

I started using epsom salt yesterday at a dose of 1 tablespoon for 10 gallons
Not sure if that is the right dose, but I am trying it

any ideas

This Venustus I have had for over 3 years and produced some nice fry (albeit hybrids)


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

I have also noticed that when the fish coughs I can see down its mouth and its all reddish inside...

fed it some food soaked in METRO, but it mouths it and then spits it out


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## euphr (Aug 9, 2015)

have you quarantined the fish into a hospital tank?

What are you parameters of your tank?


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Fish is probably doomed but I would crank up the (regular not epsom) salt and try to feed her some shelled pea halves by hand.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

The fish is in a quarantine tank
all parameters good 0/0/10 or so

I feel it is also doomed

I was thinking an epsom salt bath

not sure what adding lots of regular salt may do...how much per 10 gallons

for a fish that has not eaten in a month it still looks pretty good...it goes for the food quickly but just mouths it

my options are fading


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Epsom salt and regular salt do the same thing but you can go to a much higher dose of regular salt without poisoning the fish. You can go up pretty high and go up fast, you just can't go DOWN fast or it WILL kill the fish. But I would just keep adding salt a bit at a time to see if there's any effect. I'd take it up to 2% salt over time and see if she responds. For africans I usually put in lots of rock salt in normal operation and they seem to love it - additionally I never once had a fish with bloat.

Heat should reduce the swelling, too, and have other good effects. Try upping the heat to 84. Did you try a medicine that knocks out INTERNAL parasites? I think metro just works on external parasites. Maybe she has a worm.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

I tried prazipro no results

the fish never showed signs of a bloated stomach just not eating and lots of coughing...and now looking thin


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## euphr (Aug 9, 2015)

Read th article on bloat as it has recommended steps.

Aquarium salt and Epsom salt are not the same. Epsom salt has magnesium and it can act as a laxative. Where aquarium salt does not. You put in one table spoon per ten gallons.

I would dose with metro I isually double or tipple th dosage and do this daily for two weeks. There are other options like levamisole and clout as well. But you have to do the full program and you must not stop early once they improve. If they are taking food into heir mouth feed food with metro on top of the metro in the tank.......make sure you remove carbon and turn off lights.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

You tried epsom salt. It did nothing, and if you use more the fish will die.

Salt draws out water through osmosis.... It doesn't even require ingestion to do its work.

Heat reduces swelling which can also help.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Read the article, it's a joke.

Salt causing bloat? LOL what ridiculous nonsense. Anyway rock salt is what you use not table salt for yahweh's sake, which does make your water harder and has more than pure nacl. Thousands of cichlids over the years and I never had it once.

Protozoan causing it? Also seriously doubtful. It's just specific types of fish that get it, especially if they are wild caught. Probably they have lost their gut flora in transit.

Improper feeding? This is probably a big cause, combined with the first thing I mentioned.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Fish Jerk said:


> Salt causing bloat? LOL what ridiculous nonsense. Anyway rock salt is what you use not table salt for yahweh's sake, which does make your water harder and has more than pure nacl.
> Protozoan causing it? Also seriously doubtful. It's just specific types of fish that get it, especially if they are wild caught. Probably they have lost their gut flora in transit.
> Improper feeding? This is probably a big cause, combined with the first thing I mentioned.


Overuse of salt (NaCl) can easily be a contributing factor of fish developing bloat. As you say, it increases osmoregulation. This means more fluid drawn from the fish leading to dry tissue which can lead to digestion problems. However at these levels, having your fish develop bloat is likely the least of your worries. Incidentally, I think you've read the old bloat article. You can find the updated version here.
Specific types of fish are more prone to bloat but I wouldn't classify this illness as affecting only those fish. Also, rock salt or any other salt (besides marine salt) doesn't affect water hardness. And metro doesn't only work on external parasites. It's primarily anti-bacterial but also anti-parasitic.

Plug, go ahead with the bath. As stated in the article, 20-30 minutes and monitor the fish for the duration. Also as recommended, add salt (NaCl), epsom and you can double dose metronidazole. I'd premix the metro before adding it to the bath container. If you have Kanamycin or nitrofurazone on hand, add them as well, at double the recommended dosage. Again, be sure to monitor the fish for the duration of the bath and remove it if necessary.
Also, 2 tablespoons per 10g of epsom in the q tank.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

This fish is one hardy fish

Granted I am not an expert on Bloat, and do not have much experience with it

Here is the latest

The fish has not eaten for a month. I drop in food, it goes for it eagerly but rarely takes it in its mouth
I gave a salt bath yesterday. 2 litres of water and 1/3 cup of salt (not epsom salt). 5 minutes in the bath and back into its MED tank. I though the fish would die but it survived the bath, and today it had a string feces over a foot long. The fish still looks good but it is getting thinner.

I just started Metro again, with a way higher dose.

Can I give it a salt bath again or is there a recommended period between salt baths


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

I don't know if a salt bath will help because it's very high dose but low time.

Like I said I would up the salt in his tank to brackish levels and up the heat to at least 85. Then try to feed mashed peas. You can try some antibiotics, too, but I am not hopeful it will work.

Some people online say how stupid I am for using rock salt for malawis but they love it and even roll around in it on the ground when I put it in, and my fish were amazingly healthy until I had to get rid of them. I even had some get their fins all torn off and get nursed back to health completely which is not something I see from other people's tanks.

I don't hold much hope for this guy but looks can be deceiving. He may actually be eating very tiny amounts. But for all we know he has a huge intestinal blockage that is nothing to do with 'bloat'.

Like I said I never had bloat but a few times fish just refused to eat and I would take them up and sort of force feed them a mashed half pea. Take the fish up at a 45 degree angle and put the pea (already removed from the shell and smooshed up) gently in his mouth and do NOT shove it down but DO keep him from spitting it out. You don't have to make him eat it all, just small amount could be enough to get his bowels working again or give the medicine and heat and salt some time to do its job.

I sincerely hope it all works out, but it doesn't look good this long without eating.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

UPDATE

I put some shelled cooked peas in all mushed and the fish ate a whole bunch of them
I watched for a while and after a few minutes some were spit out, so not sure if any were actually digested. This is the most I have seen this fish eat in a month
I also upped the temperature, I think it will stabilise at 83 or 84. Did a water change and mega dosed with metro again while adding more salt to the water

These may be last ditch efforts, but we are going in swinging and hopefully can save the fish that I have had with no issues for a few years...

I will keep updating in case anyone is following

I don't expect a miracle but this is one tough fish and she is hanging in there!


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Great news. If she actually gets the peas down I bet she will live. Of course we don't really know for sure but if it is just a digestive tract thing but if so then the peas will get her cleared out. They are also extremely nutritious high protein high vitamin food.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

So here is my question
Does this fish have BLOAT?

Dont fish that have BLOAT die within a few days

This fish has not eaten in over a month (except possibly some peas earlier today)

Could it possibly be something else?


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

I don't think anyone knows for sure about bloat in fish. But bloat does occur in other animals like large dogs. They usually die very quickly, and it comes because they eat large amounts too fast.

For a fish I'd guess it means they have some blockage to not eat so long but I don't know and there's probably many things that could cause it. In general animals don't eat if they are very sick or in pain. But if that was the case I'd think the fish would have died by now - if that was the reason for not eating.

I can only think it's blockage or else an internal large parasite like a worm, but I don't know for sure and I think it's impossible to know for sure except in how she responds to treatment.


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## euphr (Aug 9, 2015)

Bloat with fish is different than dogs. Bloat with dogs can be fatal when the stomach flips and twists causing the dog not to eat. Had to use the peroxide on my lab several times because she over ate and she was swollen.

Fish jerk is right bloat is what is termed when they stop eating and act like they have parasites....sometimes white stringy poop and a shrinking belly. I would be doing metro daily wi two to three tims the daily recommendation, next you could try clout,,,,,I got some from Amazonia no it helped me with my gt a while back.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

I cannot believe that my Venustus is still alive
It is definitely not long for this world
I have tried everything that I know and have access to

I think it will be in the big aquarium in the sky in the next day or 2

I have never seen a fish go so long that is ill and not eating

Truly an amazing and courageous fish


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Did you try antibiotics?


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

Unfortunately the fish died this morning
I have never seen a fish hang on and fight so long without eating...at least 40 plus days...

Truly a strong fish

Thanks to all who offered advice and help


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

Next time you can try force feeding with a baby syringe. I've done this many times, some times it can be too late though. You have to net the fish and manually stick the syringe down the fish's throat with the crushed metro and water mix. You can also mix in antibiotics. I do this in the morning and at night, twice a day. I also do a 50% water change each day and use the metro medication for at least 10 days. Of course its better to isolate the infected fish in a 10 gallon tank.


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