# Difficulty: Discus vs Tropheus?



## Als49 (Jul 11, 2014)

I've been keeping discus in community planted tank for about 3 years. Starting from 3" until they become 5", pairing, spawning and having fry.

Based on this experience, I found that keeping discus is not as difficult as mentioned in many articles.

So I wonder how about trophs? Is it easier done than mentioned in many articles?

The reason is I fell in love with trophs moorii and considering to keep them. Of course I have to get a new tank for them since I doubt my misus will allow me to replace the discus with trophs.

I don't plan to especially breed them. I only want enjoy the activities and colors in the tank. Any fry is off course a bonus


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

They're not that difficult. Having an appropriate sized tank with enough tropheus to spread out the aggression is the first step. Mitigating stress and maintaining water quality are the next steps. Feeding high quality, species-appropriate food in reasonable quantities... these are all things you've likely done with discus.

Minimum tank size is 75, but tropheus really shine in 90+ gallon tanks. You'll want a lot of water movement and excessive filtration: a good general goal is to have a a volume turnover rate that is 10 times your tank volume (so, for a 90 gallon tank, you'd want a combined 900 gallon per hour filtration rate). Start with at least 20 tropheus from the same collection point. Read a lot on how best to acclimate them, because stress management will be your best weapon against bloat (what tropheus are notoriously susceptible to). Large, frequent water changes... I did about 70% on my tanks just about every week. There's lots of details to discuss, but I think tropheus are worth a tank of their own.


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## Als49 (Jul 11, 2014)

That's nice to hear Triscuit.

I always believe in over filtration and did it for my 95G (57 x 19 x 19") discus tank. So filtration won't be an issue.

Since Trophs are very active swimmer, it's better to have more length than width or height, is it?
Ideally I surely love to have 10 x 2 x 2' as my dream tank. But 7 x 2 x 2' is more practical to have.

Why should the Trophs come from the same source?

Does the aggression depend of the colors? Because I want to have golden kazumba, kasanga, ilangi and mpulungu. I love their colors.


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

Consistency is the key, weekly water changes, quality food and good flow. Mines a 240 gallon and am running around 1800 gph filtration, I do 40% water changes sometimes more once a week. You also want to decide over keeping wild caught or F1s. Recently I have seen more people having issues with bloat and wild caught. Not sure if it has to do with importing or just the luck of the draw? Mine are f1s and 2s and have not had any issues what so ever. I have had 2 die in the last year but out of 60 plus fish that's nothing to worry about. I switched to Tropheus around 3 or 4 years ago and have not looked at anything else. If I were to do it again I would still stick with F1s vs wild caught.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Als49 said:


> Why should the Trophs come from the same source?
> 
> Does the aggression depend of the colors? Because I want to have golden kazumba, kasanga, ilangi and mpulungu. I love their colors.


I see- with a big enough tank, you can host more than one school, but you'd need to do a bit more digging to figure out which tropheus variants coexist without hybridizing. Those variants you listed are beautiful AND varied and available because they were kept separate from similar tropheus that could have cross bred with them. In general, a large tank (6 foot minimum length) can house 2 schools of tropheus.

Instead of getting a mix of those that you listed, I suggest picking your favorite and getting a large group of them. Add a group of Eretmodus cyanostictus and perhaps a few synodontis catfish for a full tank.


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

I mixed 2 groups couple years ago, at one point I had 33 Rainbows and 15 or so Bembas in the same tank. Eventually the group of Rainbows quit breeding and the Bembas were like rabbits and dominated the tank. Triscuits advice is pretty sound. I will say if you want Tropheus that breed quickly Bembas would be a winner, the moorii are a bit slower which it sounds like what you want.


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## Als49 (Jul 11, 2014)

I prefer F1 to WC. I doubt we even have WC Trophs moorii here. They're very rare and quite expensive for Indonesian price (they're even more expensive than locally bred discus!)

Since golden kazumba, kasanga, ilangi and mpulungu are all moorii species, is combination of them (say, 6 fish of each color) considered a same colony of 24 fish?

Does their aggression based on color or based on species? If the aggression based on species, is 24 fish combination of golden kazumba, kasanga, ilangi and mpulungu safe? (They're more than 20 Trophs as Triscuit suggested).

I know most hobbyist are purist, and usually keep the same fish. However my goal is not breeding, only keeping them in Tang community planted tank (with goby, shelly and syno cats). I like watching them. And I won't sell the fry either. So hybridization is not an issue for me.

It seems Trophs require more planning than discus since they require bigger space. And with tank that big, automatic continuous water change is nice to have (if not must to have  ).


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

I have found that mixing Trophs will result in them not showing their best colours.
I would stick to one species per tank for that reason alone.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

It's probably a good time to talk about the difference between species and variants. Tropheus is the genus, which has annectens, brichardi, duboisi, kasabae, moorii, and polli as distinct species. Sp. Black and Sp Red are Within those six species, there are many more collection points which are often used to name a variant. Here's a neat map, though I can't confirm its accuracy.









And oooh- this one is cool too. https://maps.google.com/maps/u/0/ms?ie= ... adae5e03db

Here's an article in the C-F library about mixing those variants... might help you make a decision. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/t ... mixing.php


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## Als49 (Jul 11, 2014)

Thanks for the graphic Triscuit. Wow there are a whole lot more colors to choose!

Yes, Tropheus is the genus. While golden kazumba, kasanga, ilangi and mpulungu are variants of Tropheus moorii species.



> Tropheus tend to develop social hierarchies. There will almost always be a male in a tank that becomes the dominant male, usually staking out his territory at one end. (In rare cases a female will do this.) In a large enough tank, you will end up with two or males becoming dominant and the remainder of the fish usually stay in the middle of the tank.
> 
> When you mix two or more types of Tropheus, you end up having a dominant male from one of the groups. What that means is that one of the groups will likely breed more frequently than the others. You really can't put two groups together and expect them both to breed with the same frequency. One group will end up on top of the breeding.


Is the group mentioned in this article means a group of the same species, or a group of the same variant? I mean if I keep golden kazumba, kasanga, ilangi and mpulungu in the same tank, are they considered one group or four groups?

I love to have a tank of various Tropheus like this. It's colorful!






And I'll make it a community planted tank like Frank's. I love his tanks!


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