# Unidentified African



## FishDad (Jan 8, 2013)

Hello all. New to this forum and look forward to using it.

I purchased this little guy in a mixed tank of many unidentifieds... Any thought as to what he might be. If you can't tell by the pic he or she is about an inch and a half. Thanks for the help.


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## testeve (Sep 17, 2012)

I bought an unidentified fish that looked identical to this one about 2 months ago and posted on this site to try and get an opinion on an ID. Most people replied they couldn't tell until he got bigger and colored up. I would say you are probably in the same boat. It is probably a Copadichromis sp. though won't know more until it colors up. I am still waiting for mine to color up. Mine has some blues and yellows starting to come in, but not enough to help ID. Of course it could be a hybrid as well. Maybe someone else can chime in with more info.


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## FishDad (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks for the info. That would be cool, just google searched Copadichromis. Thanks again for the help.


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## Jmatson (Nov 16, 2012)

I believe its a Protomelas sp. "Spilonotus Tanzania" it looks identical to my mine when they were that size. I have four F1 of the Liuli, Tanzania location. It is to small to positively identify though.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Looks like a young Copadichromis of some sort. There are a bunch of fish similar to this popping up all over the chain stores and many are showing very strong colors and fins for their size which lead me to believe they may have been hormoned. I am not saying this one is but they look similar. I know they are coming in from Asia where they apparently are doing some weird things such as hybridization and hormoning trying to make a quick sell. Might have some Azureus in him.


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## FishDad (Jan 8, 2013)

From what I cant tell both the Protomelas and the Copadichromis look very similar as juveniles. Either way I'll be happy. He was a buck at the lfs.


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## FishDad (Jan 8, 2013)

This is the photo that jmatson sent me. I think he might have nailed it...


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Here is a pic of one that I bought about a year ago...

The flash makes it appear a bit more blue than it was but the second pic is probably more the actual colors....



















How big is it?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Can you take a more focused pic doing making sure to get a good look at the fins?


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## Jmatson (Nov 16, 2012)

The fish in FishDad's picture looks identical to my "Spilonotus Tanzania" (Liuli) which is pictured above. The first black spot (closest to its head) its almost like a double spot, its the same as mine. Yours does not have that double spot. Also the head/nose looks to be longer as yours is more shorter/ steeper. The yellow strip going through the dorsal fin is different as well. Looks more thinner and sharper/ defined then the fish you have posted.
I believe the reason why his fish is showing blue is because of the flash. Flashes show more color then we can actually see, that's why i never use my flash, gives the fish more color then it actually has. Especially reds and blues.
I still strongly believe its a Spilonotus Tanzania but only time will tell.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Jmatson said:


> The fish in FishDad's picture looks identical to my "Spilonotus Tanzania" (Liuli) which is pictured above. The first black spot (closest to its head) its almost like a double spot, its the same as mine. Yours does not have that double spot. Also the head/nose looks to be longer as yours is more shorter/ steeper. The yellow strip going through the dorsal fin is different as well. Looks more thinner and sharper/ defined then the fish you have posted.
> I believe the reason why his fish is showing blue is because of the flash. Flashes show more color then we can actually see, that's why i never use my flash, gives the fish more color then it actually has. Especially reds and blues.
> I still strongly believe its a Spilonotus Tanzania but only time will tell.


I guess it is possible but the fish is way too small to be showing those colors and fins at that size. The fins are very long as though it were hormoned. A Protomelas, like the one you sent the OP, is what the fins should look like at that size. I doubt a Tanzania Spilonotus is thrown in with a bunch of assorted fish at a LFS or chain store where it was likely purchased. Again....I guess it is possible although I don't think it is a Protomelas of any kind.


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## sickwithcichlids (Jun 10, 2011)

what part of Ohio are you from? It looks exactly what my Copadichromis Azureus looked like when he was young. Heres a pic of him now.


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## FishDad (Jan 8, 2013)

I really appreciate everyones input on this. Very active and interesting forum. I live in the cleveland area and purchased him from Pet Supplies Plus. I picked him because he was the only one I couldn't Identify. I'm in agreement about the spots, I think the double spot, and I'm no expert, is the defining characteristic. I'll see if I can post a clearer pic this evening. Thanks again.


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## sickwithcichlids (Jun 10, 2011)

I got mine at the North Canton Pet supplies about two years ago. They order from Segrest Farms


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

When you purchased from an unmarked tank, with Unidentified fishes, there is a high probability you bought a hybrid. Sure, there are pure species that will look similar, often a bit like one of the parents. Unfortunately many of these mixed peacocks/haps are coming in cheaply from Asia, and these are full of hybrids, and often hormoned.


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## FishDad (Jan 8, 2013)

With how prolific and widely bred african cichlids are it seems inevitable that hybrids are going to be a staple of the hobby. I'm relativly new to fishkeeping so I am not heavily invested in pure breeds but I do understand the issue. I wish also I could confirm that fish I purchase are not hormoned but from one continent to the other, I don't think you can be sure of anything.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Well, they are definately a Malawi based Haplochromine. Probably some Copadichromis in it.


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## Jmatson (Nov 16, 2012)

FishDad, when you take more pictures try without a flash, it should show the true color of this fish. I agree that it could be a hybrid and could be shipped in from Asia but I disagree about it being hormoned because it has long fins. My pic was when the fish was an inch, FishDad's is an inch and a haft. When mine got to 1.5" - 2" the males had fins like that (not that much color though) but my are from Liuli location which are known for the very long fins. I will post a pic of my 1.25" Lwanda peacock which i know for sure were not homoned. I know its a peacock but its just to show small fish can have long fins and show good color. I got the Lwanda's from the same guy I got my Liuli's.
In about 6-8 months you should know for sure if its pure or hybrid and what specie it is. I believe there may be a chance it is pure and possibility got mixed up and placed in a assorted tank. Even a possibility it jumped from one tank to another, I've heard it happens.


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## Jmatson (Nov 16, 2012)




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## Jmatson (Nov 16, 2012)




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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Jmatson said:


>


That looks to me like a red top Lwanda or at least red top Lwanda in him. Very pretty fish. Hard to find in this area especially. I have a friend that ordered 10 recently from a site sponsor and he is going to sell me a male after it starts showing. I can't wait. You have a very nice fish there.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

sickwithcichlids said:


> what part of Ohio are you from? It looks exactly what my Copadichromis Azureus looked like when he was young. Heres a pic of him now.


Yep...here is the fish I posted above about a year later.










Sadly about a month ago I forgot to put the grate over the back of my tank and he jumped out. I loved that little guy.


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## cbechdel (Jun 9, 2012)

FishDad said:


> I live in the cleveland area


Have you found "Something Fishy" yet on State road just of 480 in Old Brooklyn near the zoo?

google them, almost 100% cichlids in the store, great little find and the owner is very knowledgeable and can help you plan a tank, get custom fish etc.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Jmatson said:


> FishDad, when you take more pictures try without a flash, it should show the true color of this fish. I agree that it could be a hybrid and could be shipped in from Asia but I disagree about it being hormoned because it has long fins. My pic was when the fish was an inch, FishDad's is an inch and a haft. When mine got to 1.5" - 2" the males had fins like that (not that much color though) but my are from Liuli location which are known for the very long fins. I will post a pic of my 1.25" Lwanda peacock which i know for sure were not homoned. I know its a peacock but its just to show small fish can have long fins and show good color. I got the Lwanda's from the same guy I got my Liuli's.
> In about 6-8 months you should know for sure if its pure or hybrid and what specie it is. I believe there may be a chance it is pure and possibility got mixed up and placed in a assorted tank. Even a possibility it jumped from one tank to another, I've heard it happens.


I am sorry the post I made above I assumed you were talking about the Tanzania so my fault for not reading ^^^^ above thoroughly the first time. 

Still....your red top is nice. I can't wait to get mine.

As for these fish coming from Asia some I have noticed some being hormoned and some not. I have seen the Spilonotus Mara Rock hybrids that while hybrids were not hormoned. I think it also depends on what they were mixed with because hybrids are just not very predictable. Some may show colors at a small age and long fins and some may not. Who knows.

OP....I will be very interested to see updated pics in 6 months if you can remember.


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## FishDad (Jan 8, 2013)

cbechdel I actually have been to something fishy. Great store with great varieties of cichlids. I am on the east side and actually Jurassic Aquatics, which has a pretty good selection, is quite a bit closer for me. In a few minutes I'll try to get a photo without the flash of my mystery cichlid. Thanks guys...


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## FishDad (Jan 8, 2013)

I couldn't get a flashless photo w/o motion blur. I don't know that much about camaras, maybe one of you has a suggestion on that. But...

I can offer some observations. The true colors are present in the 2nd and 3rd photos, when in the 1st and 4th the flash def. adds a blue tint that may or may not be there. The dorsal fin is excactly the same in shape and color of jmatson photo and even shares that fourth spot above the middle spot. However anal fin shares the same flaring out just like 13razorback's photo, not rounded off as in jmatson's. Signs of a hybrid?

I hope that helps. Thanks again.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

FishDad said:


> I couldn't get a flashless photo w/o motion blur. I don't know that much about camaras, maybe one of you has a suggestion on that. But...
> 
> I can offer some observations. The true colors are present in the 2nd and 3rd photos, when in the 1st and 4th the flash def. adds a blue tint that may or may not be there. The dorsal fin is excactly the same in shape and color of jmatson photo and even shares that fourth spot above the middle spot. However anal fin shares the same flaring out just like 13razorback's photo, not rounded off as in jmatson's. Signs of a hybrid?
> 
> I hope that helps. Thanks again.


Hard to say without seeing it as it grows. At that small a Protomelas should not be showing long pointed dorsal/anal fins unless it were hormoned then there is no telling. As with hybrids as well it is really hard to say what they are going to look like as they grow. I have a friend who has a lot of hybrid fry and some look completely different than others and even one is a OB. Just very unpredictable.

I think as I and Fogelhund mentioned it is possible it is one of those Asian hybrid fish that are really going around over the last year or so. That doesn't mean it won't be a beautiful speciman just that we don't know exactly what it is. I would still love for you to get a good photo. I am not a camera expert either but on both of my camera's they have a function to change for moving objects. One camera has a flash that will do moving objects and the other doesn't. On one camera it is the "sport" function and on the other camera it is "shutter priority". I would just play around with the different functions and see what happens. Sometimes I have to literally take dozens of pics to get the one I am happy with.


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## Jmatson (Nov 16, 2012)

FishDad said:


> I couldn't get a flashless photo w/o motion blur. I don't know that much about camaras, maybe one of you has a suggestion on that. But...
> 
> I can offer some observations. The true colors are present in the 2nd and 3rd photos, when in the 1st and 4th the flash def. adds a blue tint that may or may not be there. The dorsal fin is excactly the same in shape and color of jmatson photo and even shares that fourth spot above the middle spot. However anal fin shares the same flaring out just like 13razorback's photo, not rounded off as in jmatson's. Signs of a hybrid?
> 
> I hope that helps. Thanks again.


Signs of a hybrid? not necessary, maybe homoned? i'm no expert by any means, I've only been keeping Cichlids less then 3 years, but the ones i keep and want, I do tons and tons of research on them. 90% of my fish are F1's as well, so i know they pretty much look like their wild cousins. That pic of my fish i have no idea if that was my female or one of my 3 males. Also it couldn't have been more then an inch long in that pic. I will up load another picture (a male 4 months later) i'll let you and others be the judge on whether or not your juvie is part hybrid and/or homoned. 
My opinion- It has many characteristic of a Spilonotus Tanzania but is too young to 100% identify.

As for the picture taking not sure what to suggest. I use my wife's Canon Rebel T3i on the no flash setting. Seems to work pretty good.


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## Jmatson (Nov 16, 2012)

13razorbackfan said:


> I am sorry the post I made above I assumed you were talking about the Tanzania so my fault for not reading ^^^^ above thoroughly the first time.
> 
> Still....your red top is nice. I can't wait to get mine.


Thanks for the complement! I first order 3 juvies, got all females, next time I ordered 4 and looks like i got 1m/3f (little early to tell maybe one other male) so a nice ratio to breed them. The guy I get most of my fish from is amazing! He only breeds the best wild caught Africans and will only sell the top/ best off springs.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Jmatson said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > I am sorry the post I made above I assumed you were talking about the Tanzania so my fault for not reading ^^^^ above thoroughly the first time.
> ...


Yeah...he is gorgeous. My friend just received 10 and one sexed male. He said he would sell or trade me one of his males once it starts to show. I can't wait.


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## FishDad (Jan 8, 2013)

Jmatson, I think thats my fish.


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## Jmatson (Nov 16, 2012)

I personally think so too. Those double black spots are a defining characteristic in my opinion. 
In 4-6 months make sure you post an up to date picture. Should know by 6 months what it is for sure.


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## FishDad (Jan 8, 2013)

Will do


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