# timeout tanks: do they work?



## sophie (Sep 15, 2008)

I have a an all-male 180g with 3 Fronts (1 X 10", 2 X 8") and 6 X 3" Altos. The 10" Front keeps chasing the 8" Fronts in their caves only letting them out for feeding. No nipped fins, no scales flying, but the smallest Fronts are stressed-out. I've tried re-aquascaping yesterday and the Altos were added as ditther fish last week, but nothing has worked.

I do have a 125g. that's presently serving as a hospital tank for a 13" that just recovered from float and is now completely cured. Note that the big guy (13") was previously in the 180 g and was Alpha, until he got sick.

My question is: should I timeout the 10" in the hospital tank and re-introduce him maybe putting the alpha in the 180g just before? How long should I leave him in the timeout tank?

thanks for your help.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

IME, time outs are risky. placing a dominant male, into a Q scenario, cannot convince him to share and be neighborly. fish just aren't that smart. in fact, the move will likely compound his confidence, once having realized all that space to itself. you will end up with all four fish being alpha confident, and the fights will increase.
i would suggest to remove the caves. while they do allow the smaller frontosa to hide, they confuse, and strengthen, the confidence of the alpha. he believes he has achieved solitude. when the smaller attempt to emerge from hiding, he views them as a new threat to his space, and the troubles all start again. caves for cypho just don't work, unless you have higher numbers. then, the alpha male will take the cave. but in that scenario, he maintains the confidence to emerge at will. 
i would take away the bigger caves, leave only what your alto fit into snugly, and force them to re accept each other in open water. IME.


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## sophie (Sep 15, 2008)

That makes a lot of sense lloyd. Never thought of if that way.

One more question though (well 3  ). With no place to hide do you think the smallest males will get beat-up? Also, after I remove the caves, to your knowledge how long should I give them to "settle their differences". What I'm trying to say is what are signs that this won't work and that I should try something else - like selling the 10" (oh geez, hope I'm making sense here).

Also, with all this in mind, I may have problems re-introducing the 13" who surely "has build up his confidence" in the 125g. Actually that is why I did get a 125g as to maybe leave the 13" in there and turning it into a mixed tank.

Thanks again for your help.

S.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

sophie said:


> With no place to hide do you think the smallest males will get beat-up?


 there is a good chance that will happen. i have never seen a cypho kill another, but i have read it happens.



sophie said:


> after I remove the caves, to your knowledge how long should I give them to "settle their differences".


 it should take no longer than a week. water changes will help. but if you see more than a few nipped fins, or see hiding against sides or surface, you should intervene asap.[/quote]



sophie said:


> Actually that is why I did get a 125g as to maybe leave the 13" in there and turning it into a mixed tank.


 yea, save that extra 6 ft. tank. no interest in shopping for girls?


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## tirzo13 (May 26, 2004)

It's not a Time Out tank, as in if you remove him he will feel punishment, thats not how it works.

removing a dominant fish simply changes the pecking order.
all the other fish move up, while the old Alpha sits in another tank.

If you then bring back the Alpha, he then has to reprove himself.

trust me, i have seen big alpha's lose the Alpha spot upon reintroduction.
Often the smaller fish don't want to give up their spot, and if not alot smaller, but say just a inch, they can keep it.

So removing a fish will do 2 things.
1. It will allow the less dominant fish to move up, thus feeling they have something to protect when the old guy comes back.
2. The old guy forgets he was in charge and this was his territory, he then maybe will fight to take it back, or simply be beta from now on.

At any rate, taking him out for awhile may or may not work, just as the other method i employ of changing around territory may not work all the time.
give it a go, but some males are just mean, and i have had to get rid of them sometimes.


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## sophie (Sep 15, 2008)

> no interest in shopping for girls?


My trouble is the variant. Not much Mabilibilis out there. I've even heard that where just a few to have this collection point.

Tirzo13, thanks for your POV.

AAaaaargh! decisions, decisions

thanks for your help guys.


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