# Support your Local Fish Store



## partsrep (Mar 14, 2005)

The subject line says it all. Real hobbyists need the independently owned an operated LFS and they need us. :thumb: 
Disclaimer: I do not work or own a LFS. I just want everybody to support them so they are there when we need them.


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## Taratron (Mar 17, 2004)

There was a great lfs here called Pets Inc. They had everything, fresh, brackish, salt, could order almost anything in. Then they closed in 2011.

The owner's son opened a new store about 30 miles away called The Pet Shop, with the promise it was just like Pets Inc. And it was. If 'just like' meant a quarter of the size of the previous store, with prices almost twice as high, and less then a mile from a Petco and Petsmart. After a bad business deal, I will never support that store again; most of the other ones around sell dyed fish or filthy sick ones. It comes down to the point it's cheaper to ship fish in rather than get them locally these days.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Unfortunately I don't think the LFS can compete with online vendors in two areas: price and variety. I like to browse in an LFS, but I don't like to pay 50% more for my purchases.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

Taratron said:


> There was a great lfs here called Pets Inc. They had everything, fresh, brackish, salt, could order almost anything in. Then they closed in 2011.
> 
> The owner's son opened a new store about 30 miles away called The Pet Shop, with the promise it was just like Pets Inc. And it was. If 'just like' meant a quarter of the size of the previous store, with prices almost twice as high, and less then a mile from a Petco and Petsmart. After a bad business deal, I will never support that store again; most of the other ones around sell dyed fish or filthy sick ones. It comes down to the point it's cheaper to ship fish in rather than get them locally these days.


If you can't trust your lfs, how can you trust some vender you've never met?


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Personally I buy very few fish from LFS, most from fellow members of local fish clubs, and occasionally I have something shipped in. I avoid chain stores like the proverbial plague, because of repeatedly bad experiences of buying diseased fish.

I like the idea of supporting local stores, but I agree with Donna, there is really no way for these guys to be competitive considering the overhead and cost structure they necessarily have. You all know the answer to the question of how to make a small fortune with fish, right? It's to start with a large fortune 

With an active local fish club scene, enthusiasts have the chance of swapping rare fish between themselves, but since it is a hobby for everybody, nobody is forced to make a profit to keep the bills paid.

Online purchases I only consider for stuff I absolutely can not get locally, and even then I often find a substitute that will do the job without having to pay for shipping. If I do mail order, I stay with trusted sources that are either recommended to me by people I know personally, or I use sellers who have a stellar online reputation, such as some of the site sponsors here.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think I've met most of my online vendors, now that you mention it. At various fish functions. I find them more knowledgeable than LFS owners...they specialize.

My favorite LFS owners know some things but not others about Malawi, Tang and Victorians...Synodontis. There are times they ask me, LOL. They have to know a little about a LOT of fish.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hello guys,

it is really good in US that you have access to specialize online vendors.
here in singapore and asia... we don't really have these services.

the only place we go is LFS or fish farms.
the problem in asia is that the owners has very little knowledge of the fishes they sell. mostly in chinese or thai names.
and they mostly of them dont even speak english!!! let alone those scientific names...lolz

and in asia they is a lot of mutated and hybrid fishes, like parrot, louhan cichlids, ballon fishes.. name it... all the muntants...

the only way to get good fish is with your own eyes. sometimes LFS do came in good quality fishes. and experience keepers will know they find gems.

victorian cichlids are almost non-existant here... so sad... but i am still happy with my new collection of malawi peacocks/haps

cheers!


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## earled (Jan 3, 2013)

The problem with LFS are the prices. I can get a new Fluval FX5 for $235 on ebay with media, or go to my decent LFS and pay $399 with no media. 
I do shop there for smaller items and even the occasional tank. They run some pretty good tanks sales.

Livestock wise they aren't too bad. Nothing out of the ordinary, but well stocked with the basics. Another store is limited for dry goods, but they have a
**** of a selection of fish. Lots of big cichlids and other odd balls


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

earled said:


> The problem with LFS are the prices. I can get a new Fluval FX5 for $235 on ebay with media, or go to my decent LFS and pay $399 with no media.


$235 with media? Really? :fish:


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## earled (Jan 3, 2013)

smitty814 said:


> earled said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with LFS are the prices. I can get a new Fluval FX5 for $235 on ebay with media, or go to my decent LFS and pay $399 with no media.
> ...


Found it on Ebay shipped out of New Hampshire. Been running great for sometime now


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

We have absolutely no LFS here where I am to support. I would much rather pick out my fish in person, I got spoiled living in Ontario, but it isn't always possible. My husband and I actually found a retailer about 3 hours away and drove there to stock our tank. Now, I've seen his stuff and his set up, and would not hesitate to order online from him, but in reality, that is my only option.

I wouldn't have driven the 3 hours if we hadn't been stocking the whole tank!


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## Frank H (Mar 11, 2013)

I am into another hobby (RC racing) that people always say " support your local hobby store." I, for one, hardly every buy from my LHS. They are way over priced, say anything to get the sale - even though its not true, and the 1 in particular that is within 5 minutes of my house- are very rude. There are decent stores half hour away in 3 different directions but I find it easier, more convenient to order online. I do all my own research anyway. Why go in there and pay their prices when I don't use their 'services' such as their wisdom or advice. I get all, well most, of my info from forums.

Same with local pet stores. There is a couple decent ones about a half hour away. The one that is 5 minutes from me is way over priced. I almost prefer to go to petsmart (about 5 minutes away too) over this store. Again, I don't use them for their advice. I research what I want to buy then go in and buy it. If I don't need it NOW, Ill ebay or amazon it. Simple, cheaper, no used gas..

When I was breeding dart frogs, It was more beneficial for me to drive 2 hours to meet up with the local frog society and pick up goods and frogs from fellow froggers. The only frogs I ever bought at a pet store ended up in the same tank as per the store owners advice, which I later learned was a horrible idea. Never again.

If only I could find a fish group in San Diego.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I like to. As well as suport my local club. Yep I pay over the odds (For some reason prices in the South UK seem higher than in the North) and have go elsewhere for specialist cichlids at reasonable prices. One good thing, some here are offering is price match. Take in the advert and they will match the price if they can. If not they say order it yourself. 8)

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Cichlids are a Prob here. Most LFSs seem to order just Czech bred/suplied stuff for Malawi and Tang cichlids. (I guess its the cheapest easiest option for them). Only a few specialist UK dealers go Germany, Holand and Wild Caught.

All the best James


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## partsrep (Mar 14, 2005)

I didn't realize so many of you aren't as fortunate as I am. My LFS (just one of several) offers great prices on equipment along with a broad selection of inventory. They also have some nice livestock if you are there at the right time.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

IME, it seems the further north you go, the more options you have in this hobby. I wonder if it is because of longer winters contributing more time to indoor hobbies, making the average LFS a more profitable venture?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think they skipped over Maine and New Hampshire though.


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## bostonjon1 (Aug 1, 2012)

yeah...here in mass we have a couple of quality lfs good quality fish and knowledgeable employees...expensive though in comparison to online


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Perhaps the LFS is a little higher (maybe even a lot) in price, but consider this. If there is no LFS where are you going to get your tanks? Online and shipped? Discount marketers, whether they be on line or in a physical location, need to make up in volume what they lack in margin. This is sustainable until the market becomes saturated, and then these places close up (especially when your product is bought with discretionary income, not a necessity). In the mean time they have forced their competitors out of business. Worst case scenario is neither an LFS or online vendor left. There is usually someone around dumb enough to try where others (often smarter) have failed, but that is hardly a good situation. One only has to look at what the big box stores have done to the marketplace. There are lots of what used to be commonly available items, that are difficult or even impossible to find, since the big boxes pushed the smaller operators out of business, and they don't carry the items,and never did.Quite frankly, anyone who operates an online business, and undercuts the competition by anymore than is absolutely necessary to make a sale, is an idiot.


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## partsrep (Mar 14, 2005)

BillD said:


> Quite frankly, anyone who operates an online business, and undercuts the competition by anymore than is absolutely necessary to make a sale, is an idiot.


I'm in sales and I agree. I see merchants giving away profit just to be the lowest price. In the end nobody wins since doing business without profit, either brick and mortar or online internet will result in failure and nobody will be left to buy from. Profit is a necessity of business. Profit is not evil (unless you're a politician).


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

> Perhaps the LFS is a little higher (maybe even a lot) in price, but consider this. If there is no LFS where are you going to get your tanks?


Same place most people get them now. Petco/Petsmart $1 per gallon sale up to 55g which they have 3-4 times per year. Anything over 55g like the 265g I recently bought would be Craigslist, or if new then you are better off ordering big tanks direct from the manufacture because the LFS is gonna hit you with shipping just like the manufacture would, plus the LFS has to make money off it so it would end up costing more from the LFS than even direct from the manufacture most times.

I'm all for supporting LFS "*when it is reasonable to do so* but 90% of the time most LFS are a complete rip off. I own my own small business (not aquarium related) and I know you have to make a reasonable profit to stay in business, nothing at all wrong with that. But when you see LFS has XP3 filters for $200 when you can get them online for $115. Or T5 light fixture for $139 from the LFS when you can get it online for $59 shipped....IMO that is a problem. If LFS would lower their prices to a reasonable level then I would say to support them. But IMO a LFS should *earn our support* and not just be given it blindly because "they are a local store".

Just my .02


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Steve C said:


> LFS should *earn our support* and not just be given it blindly because "they are a local store".


Thats about my feeling. No use trying to prop up a bad one.

All the best James


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The online guys have to compete with each other. And the LFS just can't buy the same volume. I prefer to order my fish online anyway...greater variety and the owners are cichlid fanatics who care about scientific names and collection points, and are able to spot a fish that was mis-identified by a wholesaler...at least some of the time.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

A friend on mine used to have a small audio/video store in Germany. His competitive advantage was expert installation of custom car hifi. He would monitor sales brochures from the big box stores, and try to get deals before most other people would arrive, because frequently they would sell the latest TVs and other gadgets for less than he could get them wholesale. Case in point, I very much doubt your LFS is paying the same for an XP3 as a big online retailer, and if he gets the thing for $150, there is no way he could sell it for $139. To the contrary, $50 is quite a reasonable markup for him, seeing that he needs to pay rent for the store, power to heat his tanks, and maybe wants to send his kids to college. I feel for the people trying to make a living as LFS, but if a business is set up so the cards are stacked against you so you can't possibly offer a competitive price, it is bound to fail eventually - as did my friend's audio/video store.


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