# Metriaclima estherae OR Metriaclima callainos



## FAMILYOFFISHLOVERS (Mar 15, 2008)

I WAS TOLD WHEN I ORIGINALLY GOT THIS HE WAS A DOLPHIN I KNOW FOR A FACT HE IS NOT!

but then i had thought he was a callainos (cobalt) until i just was reading about them and it said they have no barring, however most of the time he does not but bars do show up every now and then.

so i was wondering if he is a cobalt ( he has always been blue since i got him with occasional barring)

or if he is a estherae, thanks!


----------



## Joea (May 25, 2004)

YOU'RE RIGHT... HE'S NOT A DOLPHIN!!!!!!!! 

My guess would be _M. estherae_, however I think I see sub-marginal band on his dorsal, this would likely mean a hybrid of some sort. Can you get a closer profile shot?


----------



## FAMILYOFFISHLOVERS (Mar 15, 2008)

O.K. I FINALLYGOT MORE PICS, QUITE A FEW ACTUALLY.

FIRST SET IS WITHOUT FLASH , TANK LIGHT ON . THERE NOT THAT GOOD BUT..



















THE NEXT SET IS DIFFERENT ANGLES AND WITH FLASH AND TANK LIGHT ON....





































THE NEXT SET IS WITH FLASH BUT TANK LIGHT IS OFF TOP VIEWS ONLY......



















HE DOES HAVE A BAND ON HIS TOP FIN A LIGHTER BLUE ON THE VERY TOP ( VISABLE IN PHOTOS WITH FLASH.)

AND ALSO ANOTHER LIGHTER ALMOST TANISH BAND JUST UNDER THE TOP FIN, YOU CAN SEE IT BEST IN PHOTO # 5 THEN #7 ( I THINK)

HE WAS NOT SHOWING MUCH BARRING THIS MORNING BUT SOME FAINT BARRING MOSTLY SEEN IN PHOTO # 3 (?)

THANKS JOEA.


----------



## CichInTheMind (Feb 27, 2008)

If male, could be estherae. Looks most likely callainos "blue cobalt" IMHO


----------



## Joea (May 25, 2004)

Better pictures indeed.

I'm changing my answer, I think it's a _Metriaclima callainos_ as well.


----------



## FAMILYOFFISHLOVERS (Mar 15, 2008)

o.k., great, thanks CichInTheMind & Joea. i really appreciate that. 

i dont know this may sound wierd , or maybe lots of others do this i dont know...

but i always print out the fishes profile and any articles about that fish, put in a binder with all the other fish i have and keep it under the tank they are in , that way i always have the info on hand along with a picture of the fish. in case i ever need to know something.

and i also now have a separate binder with fish ailments/ diseases in it with treatments so i always know what to do. although i wish there were more photos of disease and such for comparison..

well i am rambling so.. again thanks!! :thumb:


----------



## a7oneal (Dec 30, 2004)

I'm not sure how many other people do that, but I think it's a great idea... I was going to do this with a tank I set up in the classroom, but I got vetoed on the fish list by my fellow Teaching Assistants for some reason.


----------



## saturnine (Apr 23, 2007)

check my mesage...now i'm more confuced then ever :-?

http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=170460


----------



## Cobotis (Mar 3, 2004)

They don't even look like same fish.. I think you are confusing yourself with too many posts... my new guess is that you have a hybrid.....


----------



## FAMILYOFFISHLOVERS (Mar 15, 2008)

o.k. here are 2 pics of a M. estherae i found on the net



















here are 2 of a cobalt a.k.a. callainos



















the reason i asked wich one is because most of the times he looks like these pics of the cobalt but on occasion he does show slight barring as in those 2 estherae pics.

and of every pic i have seen of the cobalt there was not even slight barring but my fish does not look like the estherae either. :-?

imo my fish has more the color and shape of the cobalt but on occasion the barring of the estherae. see the very first pic! for the barring.

when i bought this guy he was in a tank with dolphins and was labeled as such.  i bought 2 fish from there this guy and a dolphin. i do not know how he ended up in that tank and labeled a dolphin, who knows!

cobotis wrote:


> They don't even look like same fish.. I think you are confusing yourself with too many posts... my new guess is that you have a hybrid.....


i mean no disrespect to anyone at all.. when i say this...

what does not look like same fish?

i KNOW i am not confused. i may have alot going on but i am far from confused. :roll:

if your speaking of the 2 fish cobalt and estherae i disagree to a person who is unexperienced they do look alot alike especially in my case when he looks like both on occasion.

but on the other hand you are completely right they look nothing alike really, specially if you look at the juvie pics.

but there are so many different cichlids and so much crossbreeding it is difficult for a newbie to differentiate between alot of different cichlids. :fish:

most of us look at color and dont really notice the slight or ever so slight differences between fins, mouth shapes etc.

and as far as saturnine pics, it also appears the barring is not always there. maybe we both have a cross between the 2 fish? :wink:

what i think is going on we are all getting thrown off by the occasional barring that is appearing on our fish! :-?

do cobalts ever have faint barring? my guess is not since i have found no pics

do estherae ever have no barring at all ? my guess is not since i have found no pics.

so my new guess just as a few have said is cross.

well that concludes my opinion
thanks,
renee


----------



## Joea (May 25, 2004)

I think coboitis is confusing your fish with saturnine's fish. Read the two posts carefully and you'll se coboitis is responding to saturnine.

saturnine is not the original poster in this thread, therefore they aren't the same fish.


----------



## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

It is my understanding that cobalts shouldn't have any barring, but some being baught and sold out there in the hobby do show some. Whether it be from an estherae in the mix several generation before, being mixed up with estherae in the LFS or just poor culling standards at the breeder I can't say. I am sure there are wild callainos that have some barring just like some wild Labs have barring, but it is not desirable. I am also sure there are other physiological traits (number of orsal spines, etc) that would be useful to determine if the fish in question is a callainos or an estherae, but I don't think you can get a 100% accurate answer.

If any of them end up holding, then you can be pretty sure they are callainos.

But hybrid is always a possibility. (Unfortunately)


----------



## FAMILYOFFISHLOVERS (Mar 15, 2008)

> It is my understanding that cobalts shouldn't have any barring, but some being baught and sold out there in the hobby do show some. Whether it be from an estherae in the mix several generation before, being mixed up with estherae in the LFS or just poor culling standards at the breeder I can't say. I am sure there are wild callainos that have some barring just like some wild Labs have barring, but it is not desirable. I am also sure there are other physiological traits (number of orsal spines, etc) that would be useful to determine if the fish in question is a callainos or an estherae, but I don't think you can get a 100% accurate answer.
> 
> If any of them end up holding, then you can be pretty sure they are callainos.
> 
> But hybrid is always a possibility. (Unfortunately)


so basically you are saying: if i am correct in lament terms translation:

it is safe to say i have a cobalt with estherae somewhere down the line - meaning hybrid

or

bad breeding of the cobalt!

either way it would mostly be cobalt? right?


----------



## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

There is the third option that it is truely a male M. estherae. Any chance you could contact the people you bought him from? Since it is obviously not a dolphin, perhaps they can point you to what else they have that could have been accidentally sold to you. If they have never had cobalts, then it is much more likely he is an estherae or vice versa.


----------



## FAMILYOFFISHLOVERS (Mar 15, 2008)

o.k. i could definitely do that! thats a great idea! :idea:

i shall report back what i find. i wont be able to call till tomorrow but... i definitely will! :thumb:

thanks!!


----------



## Cobotis (Mar 3, 2004)

I guess was confused... and I apologize...  I don't understand where the notion that M. callainos is poorly bred if it has slight barring... maybe for esthetic purposes and other such vanities hobbyists bring into the equation.. I don't know. I've seen countless images of M. callainos in the wild with slight barring including within the pages of Ad konings books... are they mislabeled... are those wild specimens a product of poor breeding too... I doubt it... IMO this one looks more like callainos... although its mouth doesn't look entirely right...


----------



## FAMILYOFFISHLOVERS (Mar 15, 2008)

cobotis wrote:



> I guess was confused... and I apologize...


no problem! in the midst of all i was starting to get confused!  things happen! dont worry!



> cobotis wrote:
> I don't understand where the notion that M. callainos is poorly bred if it has slight barring... maybe for aesthetic purposes and other such vanities hobbyists bring into the equation.. I don't know. I've seen countless images of M. callainos in the wild with slight barring including within the pages of Ad konings books... are they mislabeled... are those wild specimens a product of poor breeding too... I doubt it...


this is very interesting.. i do know in the profile section of this website, there are no cobalts with barring... but... as you stated you have seen pics with this slight baring of them in the wild.... so apparently maybe.... the profile is wrong and it should state that they can have slight barring instead of it saying the don't have any barring... just a thought!

i have never seen any ad konings books or any good books around here for cichlids, then again i really haven't LOOKED that well anyway.

do you happen to have a pic or a web site that shows a cobalt with the slight barring for me for reference? i would really appreciate that... immensely.

well i guess there is still room here for much more discussion!! cause i am finding this interesting!!

does anyone else have any other insight on this? just curious as to what others think or know!

opcorn: 
renee


----------



## Cobotis (Mar 3, 2004)

I'm pretty sure the article is only a general outline as there are 20 different collection points...


----------



## FAMILYOFFISHLOVERS (Mar 15, 2008)

ah! o.k. oh well i guess i will just leave it at that for now. i will wait till he gets a bit bigger and see what happens!


----------



## Joea (May 25, 2004)

There are a few variants of _M. callainos_ that have fairly prominent barring (Katale Is.), there's even OB varieties (Chitande Is., Makonde), however these aren't commonly exported. It's not unheard of for tank raised _M. callainos_ to have faint barring but it's not a desired trait in most cases.


----------

