# Malawi 75 Gallon moving. Looking for advice and opinions



## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

So I am moving into an apartment in July and am bringing my two tanks with me. My 45 gallon live planted community tank and my Malawi Mbuna 75 gallon. These are both currently running in my basement and have both been running for years. The Malawi for around 7 years and the planted for about 5 but just added plants about 2 years ago.

But my main focus for this thread is the Malawi tank. The 75 the fish are in now, was a give away because we became friends with the owners of a struggling LFS that went under and so they gave me a bunch of tanks including 2- 75 gallon tanks. The other tank has been in storage and has been unused since it was at the store. I have had great success with this Malawi tank and deaths have only come as a result of high level aggression, little disease if any. I do suspect I lost a livingstoni to Malawi bloat, but no ick, no parasites, etc.

Since I am moving, I am looking for an easy way to move the cichlids and eliminate the possibility of losing any fish in the process. So the idea I have is to buy a new stand, pool filter sand, filter, heater, etc. and start the second tank in the apartment and let it cycle for a few weeks with the water from my current tank. I will re-seal the tank with silicone sealant and make sure there are no leaks. I also will add some of the aragamax (ridiculously over priced) sand in the current tank to the new tank to try and carry the bacteria over since it is now basically "live" sand. I will also move my Emperor filter over once the fish move, since this is a mature filter and can only benefit the new tank.

Do you guys think this is the smart way to go?


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## fumoffu (Apr 23, 2008)

I'd think that if you move your current filter(s) and most of your rocks over, there shouldn't be much of a risk of a large spike. Especially if for the first few days you feed very lightly.

If it was me, I think I would set up the other tank, 80% new substrate, maybe a small new filter. Test the water to make sure Ph is close to current tank. Let that run for a couple of days. Then move the rocks over, and then later that same day move the filter and fish over.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I can not add much to your plan. Seems pretty good. Bit worried about the bacteria dieing in your filter as its moved though. Maybe a good rinse with aquarium water and stored in a wet but semi dry condition for the move would be best. Use plastic bags to prevent it drying out but ensure it keeps its bacterial load by keeping it damp but ensure it does not suffer from bacterial die out from oxygen starvation as it might if transported in water.

How long is the move?

If your filters at the new place are fully cycled to the right level then I guess you need not worry too much.
Pack the fish as you would for shipping.

I can offer no good advice on moving fish, **** mine seem to suffer from all sorts of stuff when moved from tank to tank I can not figure.


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

so fumoffu, you are saying I should move most of my rocks from my current tank to the new tank? I was actually planning on getting a whole new set of rocks and letting the tank cycle for 3 weeks or so. I didn't want to disturb the fish while this is all going on, and taking their rocks could result badly for territory reasons. I think I see your point of using those rocks though.

24tropheus, yeah I planned on keeping the water in the emperor filter during the move, I pretty much have always dumped the water out of that thing for a 10 minute cleaning every month anyway, it gets sloppy. that filter pretty much serves as a sort of protein skimmer in that tank, it takes out a lot of sludge. I have a marineland H.O.T Magnum that does wonders as well.

To answer your question the distance of the move is a 10 minute drive. So not bad at all.

I have java fern in my tank (offshoots from my planted tank) that I tie to some tufa rock. Do you think the plants help in water quality? especially during a cycle?


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## Heyguy74 (Aug 11, 2005)

No need to cycle the new tank. Get everything ready,new stand etc. Fill with water, making sure to match ph and temp. Then just tranfer the fish and filters from the old tank. The new tank will then be cycled. You may see a mini cycle for a day but thats about it. I transfer fish in 5 gallon buckets with lids. I also put any filter material ( pads, biowheels,etc) in a bucket with tank water.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

hmmm I think you are on the right track but the new tank will need a sorce of ammonia to cycle, even with the bacteria from the old tank, to keep the bacteria alive it's gonna need ammonia until you bring the fish to make it.

I'm don't have any idea about how to move the filter media or sand to keep the bacteria alive, sorry.

You mentioned using water from the old tank to put in the new one too? 
At first I was thinking that shouldn't be necessary but now I'm thinking it might help your fish adjust to the new water you'll be using, if you take your old water and start with that then do partial water changes with your new water to adjust them to it. I could be wrong but it sounds like a good idea to me.


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## Heyguy74 (Aug 11, 2005)

You dont need to get new rocks, just move them over with the fish. You can even move the substrate over, but that can get messy.


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

I appreciate your input Heyguy. That helps me to think about this a little better. I will post some pics in the next few days of the current tank and then the new tank once I move in July. I have some really nice Psuedo Acei that I have been raising.


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## Heyguy74 (Aug 11, 2005)

The fish are the source of ammonia. You have to tranfer the filters at teh same time. The filters are already cycled. No need for the old tank water, as long as ph and temp are matched and of cousr the new water must be declorinated.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

lol sorry...when I started posting there wasn't many responces. I was away from the computer for a bit 1/2 way through my post. Now you have lots of help :thumb:


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

Hey feel free to provide any input. You are saying to move the filters the same time as the fish correct? I wanted to get a new canister filter going anyway, you think it would be alright to let that run on the new tank for a few weeks and then move my emperor with the fish and then discontinue use on my HOT magnum? Or would I be better off continuing use of the Magnum canister?


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

Dewdrop, your first post reflect my thoughts exactly. I want this to be a seamless as possible for them. So I want them to be in the same water for the most part initially. I will move the sand in the tank water. Again, I appreciate everyones help.


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## fumoffu (Apr 23, 2008)

I do not believe they are as fragile as many people seem to thing. If you have a canister and stop the water flow through it for 6-12 hrs, I'd be surprise if there was more the a 10-20% mortality rate to these important cridders!

Now on the other hand if the media drys out, that's bad. They'll die!

I also think that these bacteria probably double in 24-48 hrs.

I have squat to back this up with though :thumb:

But it's me feeling and how I have treated bio-media


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## gaqua (Apr 11, 2008)

My friend has moved all his mbuna (30+ fish) from a 120G tank to a 240G tank in a city 2 hours away.

He did the following:
Set up 240G tank with one of the two filters he had on the 120G, this was done by emptying the water out of the filter and keeping the same media and everything inside. It was a canister filter, I think a Fluval. The tank was 240G and had new sand and rocks inside, nothing from the old tank. He had the 240G plumbed for a wet-dry system so the point of the canister was to seed the wet-dry system and to provide biological filtration. He also added BioSpira to the tank at the same time.

The next day he transfered the fish in four 5-gallon buckets of tank water. He didn't put any filter or airstone in it as it was only a couple of hours drive. And since it was nice weather, he didn't think a heater was needed. When he got to the new tank all the fish were still alive. He drained about 20 gallons of water out of the 240G and dumped the fish and their water into the pre-heated tank all at once. I thought the stress of this would kill them - but no problems.

He eventually moved his 120G over to his new place as well, but he never lost a fish doing it this way. In fact, he said that in the 240G he noticed they spawned a lot more. Probably less interruption from other fish.

Anyway, this technique worked for him. He never saw an ammonia or nitrite spike on the new tank, either. Though his was significantly understocked I imagine.


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

Great input guys. Thanks. What test kit do you guys recommend? I need to test the water of the apartment building and I want to make sure the tank will be all good to go. The tap water at my parents house must be perfect, because I don't do anything to it and I never have problems with Malawi cichlids or my "sensitive" planted tank fish. I.E. Threadfin Rainbows, etc.


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

a 240g is my eventual cichlid dream tank. You have any pics of that dudes tank?


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

No worries friend. This will go easily and smoothly for you.

Assuming you're staying on Erie county water supply, no need to worry too much about testing the water at the new place. Erie county water is pretty stable, and good for africans. In the next few months, I would do water changes of greater volume a/o frequency to keep nitrate levels as low as possible in preparation for the move and the brand new water, which will be low nitrate levels.

I would go ahead and buy the canister, and put it on your current 75 now. That gives it time to grow a nice filter full of bacteria before the move. Continue using your HOB as well.

Get the other 75 resealed, and a day or two before the move, set it up in your new place. Give it time to come up to temperature and put a powerhead in there to circulate water. I'd probably put new substrate in it. I like pool filter sand, and get it from local pool supply places for $8 for 50 lbs.

When it comes time to move your fish, you're going to have to pull out all the rock in the old tank anyway, so just move the rock at the same time. There is no advantage to buying new rocks, unless you count the 15 minutes that it takes to set up the old rocks in the new tank. The old rocks will have beneficial bacteria on them, and you're going to have to handle them on fish moving day anyway....bring them along!

When it comes time to move, take all the rocks out of the old 75, net the fish, and bring the filters along to the new tank. Put the rock in the new tank, add the filters, and add the fish. If you're bringing along a large amount of filtration capacity and the rocks from the old 75, you don't need to worry about cycling it. Sit back and relax. Fish and beneficial bacteria are tougher than you think. They'll be fine.


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

Great advice from a fellow Buffalonian. You guys are all making this seem much easier than I originally thought. I always expect the worst, that is probably why. I like your idea of throwing the new filter on the tank now. I wanted to run a Fluval filter in place of my HOB, that way I can use chemi-pure ( I hate dealing with loose carbon ) and put some crushed coral in a chamber as a ph buffer. But I might just stick with what I am already running.


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

FloodXL said:


> Great advice from a fellow Buffalonian. You guys are all making this seem much easier than I originally thought.


You'll be fine. Just think, at least you don't have to worry about getting stuck in traffic :lol: :lol: :lol:

Carbon? Why bother? I don't run carbon in any of my tanks, and have never had a problem without it. Unless you're changing that out on a frequent basis, it's probably not doing much good anyway. After awhile, it just becomes bio-media.


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

I have been in this hobby for like 15 years. I always used carbon because for some reason I thought I had to. And every time I do water changes and change my filter media, I always added a new filter cartridge to my power filters, hence new carbon every month. But I am hearing a lot lately and reading that it is essentially useless.

So is the mentality now that just having fiber pads are all you really need as far as filtration is concerned? That doesn't seem to do much for water quality.........or am I way off?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I agree with Heyguy74. If you are moving your gravel and/or filter from your established tank, then you are moving your bacteria as well. There will be no cycle and the fish need to go at the same time to feed the bacteria.


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## grafxalien (Mar 26, 2008)

i got a 75 gal tank with 10 fish from mr brother a couple months ago and moved it to my apartment. I put the fish in a larger plastic container with water from the tank for the move. I drained most of the water from the tank, but left enough to cover the gravel. I also put the filter media in this water. I then transfered everything to my apartment, filled the tank, put the media back in and let the tank run for a couple hours to clear the water. Then I added the fish after acclimating them. This method worked great for me, I didnt loose any fish. I also used the same method when I bought a 55gal tank and piranhas. No losses there either.


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

I am going to set up the second tank because I have to make this an easier move. I don't want to have to deal with moving my current tank which will be quite heavy and even heavier since there will be sand and some water in there if I do that. I would rather set up the new tank with a new sand substrate at this point. Thus making it a very easy transition as I won't have to worry about breaking everything down in one frantic move. I just feel I would be "on the clock" to get everything moved if I continue the use of my current tank.

So here is how I think I will do this:

Get the new tank in my new apartment, get some eggcrate in there (something I didn't do with my current tank) lay down the new sand bed and fill the tank about half way. I will lay down the sand and fill it half way with fresh water the day of the fish move. That day I will take out my rocks and fish and move them both to the new tank. I will fill the other half of the tank with water from my current tank and introduce the fish after that water has been added. I will continue the use of my current filters.

So very basic: 1.) Set up new tank in apartment 2.) add egg crate and new sand and half fresh water day of transfer. 3.) move rocks, fish and old tank water same day and get my filters running immediately on the new tank.

I think this makes sense as sort of a combination of what everyone is telling me here. Because I don't want to have to cycle the new tank if I don't have to, so using my same fiters, rocks and current tank water should help with this. This has made me seem crazy, I am sort of thinking it out by writing it down.

My thought was to mix in some of my old sand with the new sand bed to bring over some of the bacteria into the new substrate.

I am very appreciative of everyone's input here and I think I have a great plan now because of it.


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

oh and just to maybe help this overrall topic........I am moving from my Father's house to the apartment so there is no need to rush anything. This isn't even happening until probably 2 weeks into my new place. Just thought I would add that info.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

There is a part in the library section thats gives you a good run down of how to go about it. HERE IT IS 
http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/moving_tanks.php

Basicly you bag the fish up in fresh declorinated water (not from the tank but roughly the same temp.

Place the fish in a large container like a Cooler or something.

Empty the tank entirely of all water, substrate....Everything.

Take the tank to were it needs to be and position tank were you want it (which is why its good to do it last, because once its full your not going to want to move again because you under estimated the size of your furniture).

Add your substrate and rocks etc.. and fill it with clean fresh water (100% fresh), try to get the temp correct. (Try not to change the heating temp that your heater was already set to....helpful hint) another helpful hint is put a face down dish on your substrate and poor your water onto this to stop it from getting stirred up

Empty the fish only not the bag water into the tank.

Keep a very close eye on your temp and parameters for a few weeks

Oh and another thing, it's important that you don't let your filters dry out to much. you don't want all that good bacteria dying so keep all filter medie in a bucket of your tank water....VERY IMPORTANT.

The best thing to do is look at the links that i have added to this post and follow the steps. It's really spot on. I followed it without any deaths so i was wrapped

If you want to change your substrate it is a good idea to do it now, infact change anything you like, there is not enough bacteria or bio filter in your substrate or on your rocks to have any effect it's all in your filter so keeping that moist in a bucket of the tank water is very important.

I hope i haven't intruded to much or added to the confusion but there is a right way of doing this that eliminates the massive build up of ammonia levels that will occur if you go ahead with some of the suggestions, even a bucket of fresh declorinated water is fine to transport your fish

Good luck buddy
:thumb: :thumb:


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## Fish_Dude (Aug 13, 2006)

The water fron the tank isn't the big issue. I usually try to move at least 15% of the old water just because that's what the fish are looking for, but you don't need to 'run' the tank with the water for hardly anytime at all. Your biofiltration should be healthy in your filter... but here's the catch, if you don't have fish in your tank, the bacteria will die!

When I moved.. upgraded from a 75g to a 180. I knew this.. and had two eheim 2217's on teh old 75g. I moved over some water from the tank.... the tapwater in our area has some ammonium in it from the chloromine, so I only filled the tank half way to start with so that the filters could get a handle on the ammonia/nitrites. I moved one filter to handle this ammonia.

Then I moved the fish.. I did it in two trips because i was only 10 minutes away from the old house but you could do it all at once. I dropped them all in, added the second filter(with the tank 1/2-3/4 full... When I saw no spike, I went ahead and filled the tank a couple days later.
I had no spike, and lost no fish.

I recenly moved my 125g across the rooms.. same thing.... I put all the fish into a 10 and 20 gallon tanks I had in storage... I moved the tank, added about 12 gallons of the original water, then added tap water until 3/4 full, dechlorinated, and added the filter(remember to dechlorinate before you turn on the filter or you'll kill your biocycle!). I then added the fish back. No problems.. a couple days later, I filled the tank up all the way.

I've never waited for days for the water to run, it's not necessary.

One other thing, you'll want to move your filters quickly, the longer you leave the filter offline, the more bacteria you'll lose. I had mine moved from one tank to another within an hour.. but could could probably longer. If you had to move hours away, this might be more of an issue, and I may use a power inverter to power the filter in.. probably a 20g tank with the fishies in it.. keeps their water from spiking during transport and keeps the bio going.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

These are two quotes from the link that i have provided which struck me the most, which to me was a clear indication that the seperated tank water has nothing but a negetive effect on the new cycle.
And this is straight of a moderators keyboard :wink:



> With all of that clutter out of the way, I drain the tank down about half way, discarding all of the tank water. It is not essential to keep any of this, as it does not contain any beneficial bacteria, but, as stated above, it does contain waste material and other organics. Putting your fish in this water, with no bacteria to convert it through the Nitrogen Cycle, could be putting them at risk.





> At least one day before a move, treat some tap water in the temporary containers and heat it to temperatures close to your tank water. This is the water intended to house your fish during the move. New water is used instead of tank water because once you separate the bacterial colonies from the water, the nitrogen cycle is broken. Any ammonia currently in the water will stay ammonia, while fish waste added will only add to the ammonia level. Since new tap water should not have any ammonia, the concentration of ammonia in the moving facilities will only be from fish waste.


Sorry DJRansom i respect your knowledge alot but i must steal your quote


> While people are entitled to their own opinions, they are not entitled to their own facts.


 i hope you have a sense of humour :lol:


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

Alright, Time out. 

Lot's of opinions here.

I look at it like this. I am starting a new tank and am going to be moving my fish into a NEW home. Realistically it is like moving them from the store to their new owners tank. My current tank is going to be shut down, not moved. I want to stress again, I have no rush to make the move.

It seems from everything I am being told is that the current tank water should be discarded entirely, not moved. I know the concern is over losing my benecial bacteria. The current filters are going over to the new tank, but if I run those with completely fresh water isn't that bad for the bacteria since there won't be any waste in this water? or is it true that since the fish would be essentially moving over with the filters and rocks simultaneously that this alone would be sufficient to keep my current water cycle? This is why I thought of adding half old water to the new tank, because it would continue to feed the bacteria in my filtration.

I am no expert on the water chemistry aspect of this hobby.


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

You're on the right track. Take the fish, filters, and rock from the old tank to the new tank. You don't NEED to take any water with you. If you WANT to, you can, but it's certainly not necessary. You won't hurt your filters if they go without a nitrogen source for a little while.

In terms of concerns about the water "feeding" the filter bacteria...You are feeding the bacteria with ammonia from the fish in the water column, and you shouldn't have much ammonia free floating on a regular basis. It is constantly being added by the fish, and then converted to nitrite and nitrate by your bacteria in the filter and on the rocks. If the bacteria don't get to "eat" for a little while, it won't hurt a thing. As soon as the fish are added to the new tank, they'll start adding ammonia to the water column, which will be converted to nitrite and nitrate when it goes through the filter. Voila, bacteria preserved.

The only chemical substance of merit in the nitrogen cycle that should be present in your current water is nitrate, and the bacteria couldn't care less about nitrate. Your fish are your source of ammonia, and they'll feed the filters just fine in the new tank, old water or not.

In terms of ph and hardness, a little old water might help to normalize parameters to prevent a shock from a change, but as long as you stay on the same water supply (Erie County) and are doing frequent WC's at home before you move, a full tank of brand new water should be very similar to the "old" water in the tank.

That help?


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

Yeah that all makes a lot of sense. I think I am good. Again thanks for everyone's help. I will post pics soon in another thread of the current tank and then will add eventual new pics after the move. I have great scaping plans for the new setup! Cheers mates!


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## F8LBITEva (Nov 9, 2007)

good tips guys, im moving next month so I already have a 40G breeder with a filter with media from my old tank seeding.


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## gaqua (Apr 11, 2008)

FloodXL said:


> a 240g is my eventual cichlid dream tank. You have any pics of that dudes tank?


I don't, but I'll send him an email and see if he has any or can take some.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

> is it true that since the fish would be essentially moving over with the filters and rocks simultaneously that this alone would be sufficient to keep my current water cycle? This is why I thought of adding half old water to the new tank, because it would continue to feed the bacteria in my filtration.


This alone is spot on. Declorinate your water first then set up your filters and get them running. once they have been running for a few minutes add the fish......tank cycled mission accomplished.

All the old water would add is high levels ammonia due to the fact that it has been removed from the cycle source. You are better off starting from zero then having the cycle fight down ammonia levels.


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

Gibbs said:


> All the old water would add is high levels ammonia due to the fact that it has been removed from the cycle source. You are better off starting from zero then having the cycle fight down ammonia levels.


Provided you move the fish and filters at the same time, you shouldn't have any problems with ammonia. While it's true that the nitrogen cycle will basically stop while the filters are off, the short time span won't be enough to accumulate ammonia to the point of a problem. If that were true, it would be impossible to ship fish, as they'd suffer severe ammonia poisoning due to the lack of a filter in the bags. Fortunately, that's not the case.

Good luck with the move :thumb:


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

Here is a video of the tank, I was trying to get another and better one up but youtube was being weird. I will get it up there soon.


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## FloodXL (Feb 23, 2006)

Second video is up on the page also, check my other vids. :dancing:


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