# Does hard water give up calcium on a temp drop?



## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

just trying to figure out why my crystal clean tank now looks like an ice sculpture??

my only guess is that all this scale must have come from the water and all i can think is a temperature drop may have cause it?

im talking 10 degrees c drop which is quite a lot since my tap water was very hot when i first filled it up.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

zazz said:


> just trying to figure out why my crystal clean tank now looks like an ice sculpture??
> 
> my only guess is that all this scale must have come from the water and all i can think is a temperature drop may have cause it?
> 
> im talking 10 degrees c drop which is quite a lot since my tap water was very hot when i first filled it up.


In general hot water can hold more dissolved stuff than cold water, but I suspect your water got it's minerals while it was in the ground, and got hot while it was in your water heater? Out of curiosity, why did you fill it with hot water?

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

Rick_Lindsey said:


> Out of curiosity, why did you fill it with hot water?
> 
> -Rick (the armchair aquarist)


It generally isn't a good idea to fill with warm water, at least on on a tank with inhabitants.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

can u post a pic, I want to see the ice sculpture, you may have a whole new method of aquascaping on your hands :thumb:


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

i didnt have much choice.....thats the temperature of the water after it runs a few meters along a hose during the day...since its so hot here....had i known that as soon as it went down it would dump a load of calcium i would have not done it during the day.

and the tank is a new one so it was without was without fish.

no exagaration ..after a few hours i was scrapping hand fulls of calcium off the glass with a razor blade ... took me a day to clean out the tank and start again.

so now it has nightime water temprature to fill up the tank and it seems much better.

now i have some rocks and sand in there i am hoping that any calcium will settle on those items primarily rather than the glass....and that i would only have to descale it say once a week.


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## Burtess (Apr 5, 2006)

Can you measure the temporary hardness (carbonate hardness or KH) of your water source?

Temporary hardness is dumped out of water by heating, not by cooling. By heating water (boiling to be really effective) you cause a reduction in dissolved carbon dioxide and cause the calcium carbonate to precipitate out. I suppose it is possible for this to happen in the supply lines and then get into the tank as a solid that has already precipitated out.

It would be helpful to know the hardness analysis for your water supply really...

Burt


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

i have just read an article on this site dicussing the various factors that effect water hardness....but it was quite confusing.

in laymans terms is it possible to reduce the ammount of calcium and still maintain water conditions suitable for malawi??


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

zazz said:


> i have just read an article on this site dicussing the various factors that effect water hardness....but it was quite confusing.
> 
> in laymans terms is it possible to reduce the ammount of calcium and still maintain water conditions suitable for malawi??


How low do you want to reduce it, and how are you planning to reduce it? My water in california was something like 30gH and 20odd kH. You could certainly reduce it below that and still have conditions suitable for malawi! My water here in georgia is *much* softer, though, and I plan to use a buffering solution in my water changes when I get my tang tank set up.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

i am thinking i would put one of those pillows in the filter to bring it to a point at which it was the same as people with normal levels to start with that maybe had buffered it to an acceptable level....probably at a point at which the fish are happy and the tank stays clear of deposits.

the trick is hitting that right mix.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

The problem with those softner pillows is that they exchange one salt for another and while your water will be softer you will still have a lot of dissolved solids in the water, I don't know if that affects the fish or not? You might need an RO system to have it really work but I'm not sure about that. I always have to make my water harder not softer so I have the opposite problem.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

well i just did a test with one of theose kh test kits to determine the level of calcium in the water.

it took me 13 drops to get it to change from blue to yellow....

but the chart only goes up to 12 drops...

so i have a KH in excess 214.8....

so much calcium its off the scale.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

Is that an API test? On API tests each drop represents 1 degree of hardness on the german hardness scale. 12 isn't too hard its about perfect for a lot of cichlids. If your test is indicating 214 degrees then that is holy cow high, but if it is 12 degrees that isn't too bad.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

i think it is 13 drops which is equal to 13 degrees of dkh ...the 200 plus figure is ppm kh..

so im right on the money then with my calcium levels.....?


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

13 degrees isn't enough to describe the rapid precipitation of minerals in the tank. I build my up to 15 degrees with baking soda and I don't have any scale on my tank. You an also test GH but GH is the permanent hardness that doesn't just precipitate out easily so even if that was high I don't think it would be the source of the problem. So I'm officially STUMPED I have no idea hopefully someone else out there reading this thread has a answer. I'm intrigued. :-?


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

13 degrees isn't enough to describe the rapid precipitation of minerals in the tank. I build my up to 15 degrees with baking soda and I don't have any scale on my tank. You an also test GH but GH is the permanent hardness that doesn't just precipitate out easily so even if that was high I don't think it would be the source of the problem. So I'm officially STUMPED I have no idea hopefully someone else out there reading this thread has a answer. I'm intrigued. :-?


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

thanks for the input..... i too am at a loss about this...if everyone else was having the same experience i would just put it down to hardness ect ect...but they are not and i am?

there must be something a little odd about the tap water.

i am thinking of adding a uv out of desperation ...and i was planning on getting one anyway....just thinking that maybe some kind of algae might be reacting with calcium in some bizarre manner.

also i might start dumping distilled water from my dehumidifier into the tank ...see if that might dilute things a bit.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I don't think the uv would help. An RO system would most likely do the trick, but they aren't cheap and hopefully someone else has a simpler (cheaper) solution.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

maybe there is a product that could be applied to the glass that would discourage calcium depsosits ..like a polish ....so that calcium would have to settle on the substrate rocks instead.

also whats the difference between an ro unit and the water from my dehumidifier?


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

well...i have manged to get down the kh from 13 to 10 drops.....

and it was like turning a switch .....the water is crystal clear and the deposits have stopped.

so now i know the limit....amen to that.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

sweet, glad it cleared up. I'm still perplexed :-? but at least the symptoms went away.


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## Rizup (Jan 29, 2008)

Just curious; what did you do to lower it?


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