# New To Cichlids - What Went Wrong?



## Mortician (Jan 17, 2009)

*ok, so earlier this week i got my first cichlids, i set up a silver sand substrate to my aquarium, had my filter perfectly clean, my rocks and hiding places perfectly secure, my plants bedded well.

on tuesday i recieved my first 8 cichlids;
3 x Labidochromis Caerulius Cichlids (yellow labs)
1 x Jaguar Cichlid
3 x Haplochromis Nyererei Cichlid
1 x Blue Mbuna

i fed them on what i was told they were raised on, tetra pro colour, prawns every second day and i had courgette/cucumber in the aquarium for them.

they were in the aquarium with 2 pleco both just over 1ft long and a few clown loach and a pair of catfish.

yesterday i found all of my fish besides the two pleco and one catfish dead.
the fish were happy and i had no problems with them being unsettled, its a 4ft wide x 1 foot deep x 1 foot high aquarium so there was ample room, i did a complete water change last weekend.
my question was with the cichlids was there some kind of ph forumla or a salt of some kind i had to treat the water with before putting them in the aquarium?

i apologies if i sound like a novice but when it comes to cichlids i am, *** never had them before in my life and i feel like *** just flushed best part of Â£150 down the toilet on the fish, sand, rocks, plants and suchlike.*


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## The Warden (Jan 13, 2009)

you didnt state in your post, so im just asking the question... The tank was cycled wasnt it? did you have your water tested before putting your new fish in?

Gaz


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## Mortician (Jan 17, 2009)

heres where my being a novice to aquaria comes into place, when you say cycle do you mean was the water left to stand?
i followed my local pet shops instructions and bottled water to stand a week before the water change and then went through with teh change, i found my aquarium became cloudy but i was informed it was dust from the sand that would settle.


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## Mortician (Jan 17, 2009)

this is my aquarium before they died, with the forementioned cloudy water.
i questioned the cloudyness but as i say, i was informed it was just sand dust.


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## The Warden (Jan 13, 2009)

im no expert.

but i know the basics.

Leaving water to 'stand' in bottles is not classed as cycling the water mate.

You needed to leave the tank set up and running for a good couple of weeks with no fish in, so that the correct bacterias can build up. Ideally add some water from an already established tank, and if poss. squeeze in a dirty filter sponge to add some ''good bacteria.''

You then needed to get your water tested for PH, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite, and if its looking ok then add a few tetras or smaller and in-expensive fish.

and again leave this for a few weeks, cycling with the small fish in.

Only then after another water test would i of added any expensive fish.

The cloudyness was a bad mixture of bacteria mate, probably ammonia? im not sure, but im sure someone on here will have more chemical knowledge than me.

have a good read about cycling.

Gaz


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## mok3t (Nov 28, 2008)

If i dont have any pre used filter media to start a cycle with i use goldfish for a few weeks to kickstart the cycle. Cheap and i don't feel bad flushing them/donating them to an oscar afterward.


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## The Warden (Jan 13, 2009)

and by the way, theres no way 2 plecos of that size (1 foot long each) should be in a 4 foot tank.

I rekon you were probably overstocked with the 2 plecos, the loaches and the catfish. Without adding any cichlids.

Baring in mind that some cats can grow well over a meter. And clown loach can reach 12" no problem.


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## Mortician (Jan 17, 2009)

*you see i was going largely on the supposed knowledge of the local pet store, *** had tropical fish for many many years and had no problems, the pet store told me sand was suited for cichlids not the gravel i had and they told me the cloudy water was because of the sand, *** never read into the finer points of aquarium setup, its always been fine to date, i had a couple of small tetra lurking from the previous inhabitants that i had with the pleco but i purchased the cichlids as a gift for my parents, thanks to the pet store its ended up an expensive nightmare.
the pet store even told me that i had to give my tank an intensive clean before putting things back in, removing all algae and bacteria which i did question but they told me it had to be clean or it would kill the fish.
i asked them if i needed to put any ph solution or bacteria solution ((which they had for sale)) into the water and they told me no not at all that it would be fine if i bottled tap water for a week before putting it in the aquarium.

im really not impressed with the pet store and i will take responsibility for the fish, it was my mistake not to read up on things such as cycling and bacteria required for the initial setup.*


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## Mortician (Jan 17, 2009)

The Warden said:


> and by the way, theres no way 2 plecos of that size (1 foot long each) should be in a 4 foot tank.
> 
> I rekon you were probably overstocked with the 2 plecos, the loaches and the catfish. Without adding any cichlids.
> 
> Baring in mind that some cats can grow well over a meter. And clown loach can reach 12" no problem.


*i have snakes and tarantulas taking up the room i would normally have setup a secondary aquarium for the second pleco, they have grown over the last 6 years hence the size. the catfish were fully grown at about 6", i cant think of the species name but i know they were at full length, they were old fish when i was given them. the clown loach are still relatively young and i do agree its probable i was overstocked with the circumstances, however i have nowhere and nobody that can take the other pleco off my hands and they have come to get along fairly well, each having an elevated piece of slate as a cave of sorts to inhabit.*


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## PeterUK (Sep 16, 2008)

The tank should have gone through the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate cycle which can take up to 6-8 weeks, BEFORE adding fish.

The fish that you had were NOT suitable tanks mates at all by any standards.

You had cichlids from lake Malawi which need hard water and lots and lots of tank mates from the same lake, a cichlid from cental america (jaguar) which can grow to 12-16 inches and is a real killer, clown loach which are from malasia and prefer soft water, plec which come from south america which prefer softer water but can live in most types of water and some catfish which you havent said which type.

You also said that you did a complete water change last week ..... Not a particularly good idea, most people change between 25 and 50 % weekly depending on size of tank, types and amount of fish etc etc

I would STRONGLY suggest that you change your fishshop immediately and go to one that has staff with more brain cells than an amoeba because the advise given to you so far is worse than bad.

I suggest that you read though the links below and then spend some time doing some research on tank maintance and the various types of cichlids and in particular their needs before buying any more.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cycling.php

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... ycling.php

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/jump_start.php

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... y_list.php


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## Mortician (Jan 17, 2009)

*thank you Peteruk, i think i shall, the pet store had an obscene phone call frmo me this morning that i can tell you, i was not in the slightest impressed that after spending heaps of money in their store and setting up my aquarium on their advice, my fish all died. i was also told that the fish would be fine together, honestly im beyond irate with the pet store, its shambolic advice.
it was on their advice i did the change, apparently its better for cichlids to change the water a week before putting the cichlids in, keeping the water pure and clean for them like in nature :x 
looking back i probably should have had more sense than to take their advice but they are supposed to be one of the best in hampshire so i assumed they knew what they were talking about.
looking at the picture do you think it is ammonia? and if so could you recommend a treatment for me before i lose my pleco as well.*


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You need to buy a test kit and see what the amounts of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are in the water. Also measure the pH.

Did you dechlorinate the water? The fish probably would have shown signs of discomfort if you had not.

It seems like it happened kind of fast, but maybe the plecos, being so huge, gave off enough ammonia to poison the others.

Can't really tell what went wrong and how to fix it without a test kit.


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## PeterUK (Sep 16, 2008)

There is no way to tell by looking at a photo if the cloudyness is ammonia but I was to guess then I would say yes it is. The only way to tell for definate is to buy an ammonia test kit which you WILL need anyway to check on the cycling stages. 
As far as I'm aware there is no treatment for ammonia, also you NEED the ammonia to start the nitrogen cycle. 
The only thing that i can think of to save the fish is to buy some TETRA SAFE START immediately (well Sunday morning  ) I have never used this but have heard very good thing about it and intend to use it when my fishshed is up amd running.

http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafi ... 6&cid=3582


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## overleaf (Jan 18, 2009)

PeterUK said:


> There is no way to tell by looking at a photo if the cloudyness is ammonia but I was to guess then I would say yes it is. The only way to tell for definate is to buy an ammonia test kit which you WILL need anyway to check on the cycling stages.
> As far as I'm aware there is no treatment for ammonia, also you NEED the ammonia to start the nitrogen cycle.
> The only thing that i can think of to save the fish is to buy some TETRA SAFE START immediately (well Sunday morning  ) I have never used this but have heard very good thing about it and intend to use it when my fishshed is up amd running.
> 
> http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafi ... 6&cid=3582


I'm second guessing taking anything at face value on these forums...

I purchased my first tank tonight. I have no prior knowledge of fish/aquariums/etc.

From basic reading tonight I know more than nearly everyone in this thread combined. A sad tale.

Mortician, you need to go get a water test kit that contains at the very least: pH, gH, KH, and nitrate/nitrites. That's the only way to determine what's up with your water.

The treatment for high ammonia (read: nitrate/nitrite) is a water cycle.

As for the people here talking about letting water sit for weeks... you need to trigger the nitrogen cycle in order to build healthy bacteria. You do that by adding a fish or using a first stage bacteria starter.

In Morticians case, the last thing he/she should do is add some 'safe start', ' good bacteria', etc.. to his tank. Those are all *first stage*, which means they don't contain the good bacteria, just the founding blocks to create the good bacteria. Problem comes in when his tank is already full of those building blocks and you add more.

A water test will tell you why those fish died.

The cloudiness is likely bacteria bloom, in itself not bad.


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## mok3t (Nov 28, 2008)

Mortician, it might be a bit of a drive for you but there's an AWESOME fish shop with helpful and knowledgeable staff in hare Hatch. Do a Google for Wyvale garden center in hare hatch. The Aquaria dept is among the best i've ever seen. Like i said its quite the drive but it would be well worth your time i assure you (And no i dont work there )


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## Mortician (Jan 17, 2009)

i just looked at that Wyvale and theres one locally but it doesnt show aquatics on their site.


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