# Options for community Tropical/CA Tank



## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

When I put my 95G into operation early 2015, I am thinking of the possibilities for Tropical/CA community tank. The tank is 5'Lx18"Dx20"H. I believe it was Iggy who suggested Rainbow Cichlids and I like them for the tank. Since I have time to think and plan for the new tank, I started looking at other fish options. Bad idea I know, but hey, what can I say, I like options.

The current idea is 10 Rainbow Cichlids, possibly a solo female Convict Cichlid, 20 Neon Tetras, 20 Black Neon Tetras, 1-2 Raphaels, 3-4 Syno Decorus, and the obligatory 2 BN PLecos.

BUT, what if I looked a different direction, say several different species of CA Cichlids all solo Females with the 10 Rainbows? Or is that a disaster waiting to happen?

Using the profiles here at CF I looked at some possibilities of 1 individual (Female if possible). Here is the list, any thoughts?

1.	Amatitlania nigrofasciatus aka Convict Cichlid
2.	Archocentrus centrarchus aka Green Fin, Flyer Cichlid _Or_ Archocentrus spinosissimus aka Spinner, Spiny Cichlid
3.	Cryptoheros sajica aka T-Bar
4.	Herotilapia multispinosa aka Rainbow Cichlid (10?)
5.	Hypsophrys nicaraguensis aka Macaw Cichlid
6.	Nandopsis salvini 
7.	Neetroplus nematopus aka Neets
8.	Thorichthys maculipinnis aka Elliot's Cichlid
9. Thorichthys meeki aka Fire Mouth

How many different types could be kept in this tank without aggression building? To be honest, I would love both 8 and 9 in the tank together. I limited my choices to those with common names (hopefully meaning easier to get ahold of), 6" or less based on female grown up size, and temperament (mild aggressive to peaceful).

I don't see me changing my mind on the cats unless someone sees a problem with the mix. I still want the tetras in as well. I am willing to change to the larger tetras like Bloodfins, etc. and quantities if needed.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Keep in mind that Rainbows are a timid species.

The rainbows are Archocentrus; same as the Flyer so I'd skip these.
Nicaraguensis get huge.
Salvini and Neets- too aggressive

I've never kept rainbows, therefore I've never tried mixing them with other fish. From the list I'd maybe try one of the Thorichthys or the Sajica.
Not a tetra guy, but the little neons could easily be snacks.
I think you're going a bit overboard with the cats. Decorus get large- over 10". A better Synodontis would be lucipinnis(dwarf petricola). I think 5-6 Lucipinnis with the BNs would be plenty. I believe you're not interested in raising Rainbow fry, right? Synodontis can help here...

You'll get more advice from others who chime in... Hope this doesn't come off as too negative


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

dsiple3 said:


> The current idea is 10 Rainbow Cichlids, possibly a solo female Convict Cichlid, 20 Neon Tetras, 20 Black Neon Tetras, 1-2 Raphaels, 3-4 Syno Decorus, and the obligatory 2 BN PLecos.


IME, rainbows get bullied by convicts and other CA. IME, they do much better with out other CA in the tank. I think chances are pretty good that even a female convict will prove too aggressive, though there is 10 of them to pick on. Convict is likely to dominate the tank and could in the very least prevent the rainbows from claiming space and consequently from spawning.
Neon tetras are too small....rainbows, convicts and Raphael cat will end up eating them. Other larger tetras would likely make good tank mates for rainbows.
Raphaels would probably work well enough for fry control if the rainbows spawn a lot.


dsiple3 said:


> BUT, what if I looked a different direction, say several different species of CA Cichlids all solo Females with the 10 Rainbows? Or is that a disaster waiting to happen?
> 
> Using the profiles here at CF I looked at some possibilities of 1 individual (Female if possible). Here is the list, any thoughts?
> 
> ...


I think an all female CA tank would be a pretty good idea for your size of tank. But definitely, IMO and IME the rainbows don't belong in this tank. IME, they get bullied excessively even by FM. Archoecentrus centrarchus is another that I found to have problems standing up to other CA....IME got bullied a lot by FM. 
If you are limiting to 6", both female salvini and female nicarguensis can exceed this size. Both CAN get around 7" size or more. 
Even limiting to females, it's still a fairly aggressive tank. Not comparable at all, to other community fish nor likely anywhere near as peaceful as a tank of just rainbow cichlids. Neets definitely have the reputation, though I have never kept them. Lots of experience with cons and salvini . Both aggressive species, though in my experience much easier to keep females in the same tank. Even if they all get along OK, can't expect them to go a lifetime with out biting each other :lol: It may or may not work as there is never any guarantee that CA will get along .


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

Nope, not taking it negative at all, Iggy. It is sort of what I expected. This how I learn and make adjustments to have a successful tank. Keep in mind that I want to stay with only 1 individual, preferably female (because of the convict), of any on the list. I am still debating if I want a group of rainbows or not. Either I have a group of 10, or I don't put any in.

I'll just leave the Decorus out of this tank and put 2-3 more in the 125. And yes, any fry are snacks in this tank. I like the Petricola in a small group, maybe 4.

Looking at the 2 Thorichthys, I think I lean more to the maculipinnis (Elliott's) than the meeki. Seeing them in action on video's they look better than some pics give them credit. I knocked the 3 you suggested off the list as well.
At the moment, the list looks like:
1.	Amatitlania nigrofasciatus aka Convict Cichlid
2.	Archocentrus centrarchus aka Green Fin, Flyer Cichlid _Or_ Archocentrus spinosissimus aka Spinner, Spiny Cichlid
3.	Cryptoheros sajica aka T-Bar
4.	Thorichthys maculipinnis aka Elliot's Cichlid

The only reason I was thinking to keep tetras was for the schooling actions. I did look at some fish last night I really liked as well. Some of the ones that caught my eye are:
A. American Flagfish (Jordanella floridae) as a small group
B. Boesemani Rainbow (Melanotaenia boesemani) as a small group
C. Gold Doubloon Molly (Poecilia latipinna) not sure how many would work
D. Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia) as a solo
E. Zebra Danio (Danio rerio) as a small group

Thoughts and suggestions on either list would be appreciated.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I would definitely take BCs advice here.


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## dsiple3 (Mar 4, 2014)

Current list if I stay under 6" and don't change directions: (Thanks to Iggy and BC, tell me if I misunderstood something)
In order of preference.
1. Thorichthys maculipinnis aka Elliot's Cichlid (By far this is my favorite of the ones I have seen)
2. Archocentrus spinosissimus
3. Cryptoheros sajica aka T-Bar
4. Amatitlania nigrofasciatus aka Convict Cichlid (Female only)

As I said before, somewhere in the forum, I have had the misfortunate mistake of keeping convicts and having a pair team up in my distant inexperienced past. In the then 4 foot tank all the rest of the fish were hemmed in on the right 1/4 of the tank. Even the Syno was scared to move out of that 1' section. That is why I will limit the convict to a single solitary female* IF *one goes in this tank. But I do have some more questions

A. How available are any of these? sexed? I know convicts are too easy to find.
B. Assuming I could find them sexed, how many of one sex could be safely kept together?
C. If I can't find them sexed, what is the likelihood of hybridizing if I found a male of 1 species listed and a female of another?
D. And if all else fails, how many pairs of Thorichthys maculipinnis could be kept in this tank? I am thinking 1 for sure, but some information suggests 2 might be a possibility.

I am also looking at possibilities of larger community fish to go in as well.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

dsiple3 said:


> A. How available are any of these? sexed?


What is available will vary considerably from one area to another. I would think Archoecentrus spinosissomus would be the least common; never seen one before.
As you know convicts can be easily sexed at quite a young age; females having yellow on the belly. Though it is not uncommon at all, for males to have yellow at a very young age and loose it as they mature.
Female sajica, like female convicts and other female Cryptoheros , possess a large spot in the middle of their dorsal fin, that males lack.


dsiple3 said:


> B. Assuming I could find them sexed, how many of one sex could be safely kept together?


Sort of a difficult question to answer, as of the 4 species you have listed I only have first hand experience with convicts. IME with female cons I've generally had better success with either just 1 or larger groups of more then 3. Males, long term, better off with just one( or none if you don't want to deal with breeding aggression!)


dsiple3 said:


> C. If I can't find them sexed, what is the likelihood of hybridizing if I found a male of 1 species listed and a female of another?


All CA have the possibility of hybirdizing. If you keep singles of each species and there are male and females in the tank, there certainly is a chance that they could hybirdize in the absence of a suitable mate of their species. In most cases, if there are male and female of the same species, they are most likely to choose their own kind as a mate. IME, female convict will often pair up with each other; never had them pair up with males of other CA species. Also have had female salvinis pair up with each other on a few occasions. IME breeding aggression from female pairs is never near the level of a male-female pair and always short lived because no fry are produced.
Don't be fooled by the genus name. Convict and sajica are very closely related species. Not everyone recognizes the genus Amititlania. Here's an example of a site that lists Amaitilania as a synonym of Cryptoheros:http://www.cichlidae.com/genus.php?id=58. I doubt Amititlania will stand the test of time. Regardless, the point is that convicts and other Cryptoheros species are very closely related. Probably an even greater chance of hybirdizing when you mix the very closely related. So IF you are going to mix these, I think it best stick to the same sex. 


dsiple3 said:


> D. And if all else fails, how many pairs of Thorichthys maculipinnis could be kept in this tank? I am thinking 1 for sure, but some information suggests 2 might be a possibility.


Couldn't say for sure, as I have never kept this species. I would tend to think 2 is a possibility (??).


dsiple3 said:


> 1. Thorichthys maculipinnis aka Elliot's Cichlid (By far this is my favorite of the ones I have seen)
> 2. Archocentrus spinosissimus
> 3. Cryptoheros sajica aka T-Bar
> 4. Amatitlania nigrofasciatus aka Convict Cichlid (Female only)


As I already mentioned, of your list, I have only kept convicts. So I am going off what I read, and their reputations. The first two are definitely considered more mild and less aggressive. Sajica is usually considered as less aggressive then convicts, though not too dissimilar. Of course all cichlids will vary, dependant on the individual and the circumstances and situations they are put in. But you may want to consider other Cryptoheros species as alternatives.


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