# Cichlid Stone Size



## jphanton00

I'm upgrading to a 55-gallon aquarium. I have the plants and sand picked out and now I'm looking at the rock. I don't like the TX Holey rock that I have in my 20-gallon as it constantly needs cleaning and the algae won't scrub off. Anywho, I was looking into Cichlid stones but I'm not sure what size to get. I will end up with about 12 African Cichlids by the time I'm done with the largest being about 6". What's everyone's thoughts on Cichlid Stones? Would 12 large stones be too much for the 55-gallon? Would the opening in the stone be big enough when my cichlids are full grown?


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## CrypticLifeStyle

I considered them for a long time, but the problem with 55's is the small footprint. When you add stones, and plants then fish it gets really crammed for space, and if the plants do well, they can get big, and take up more space.

If you want a good visualization I'd make a piece of paper or cardboard the footprint of a 55, then place cut outs of the stone size, and put them on the footprint space. You'll get a decent idea of what your looking at width, and length wise.

Cheaper to plan, then buy a expensive stone pack. I know in my 75 planted I ended up removing all my rock cause of plant growth, and that has 6" more width. Just my 2 cents of thoughts.


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## jphanton00

I like your idea of a cardboard cut out!! Fantastic! The good thing with the stones is that they're stackable so they take up less footprint. The stone dimensions do not include the hole and I can't tell what would work for a 6" cichlid.


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## 748johnd

I had a 6-inch acei get stuck in a large cichlid stone. It was quite a struggle to get it out. I was almost to the point of breaking the stone. It did survive.


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## jphanton00

Besides cichlid stones and TX Holey rock are there any other suggestions for making caves and hiding places?


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## islandlife7309

The tank I have came with limestone, you can create any type of cave or hidey hole you're looking for. They are also able to be stacked and put into different positions to make the cave bigger or smaller.


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## jphanton00

Ya I have the TX hokey rock with is limestone. They like it hit they're going to outgrow the holes. And it's hard to keep clean. In fact no matter how I scrub I can't get the green from the algae off. So I was looking into something else.


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## CrypticLifeStyle

Thats the problem your going to run into with any rock though for the most part, while its more visible on white yes. May want to look into a dark rock. I just build with rocks from outside, or just try to control the algae somehow. I'm not a slate guy, but you can build using cheap slate from the hardware store, thats pretty dark in the grey, black range.

Here's a library article for a DIY cave
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/d ... d_cave.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_caves.php


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## jphanton00

Well the cichlid stones aren't actually rock so those would be easier to clean. But after someone posted that they're cichlids got stuck in one I'm not sure I should get those. I might look into slate though. That's a good idea. Thank you


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## jphanton00

Ok so I think I'm going to make a condo out of natural slate tiles I found and some silicone glue. What dimensions are safe? I'll be adding other cichlids, but at adulthood they shouldn't be more than 6" in length. I'm thinking one cave in this condo should be 6" x 6" x 6"...is that big enough?


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## CrypticLifeStyle

Guess it comes down to how big your africans can get, which i dont know much about...


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## jphanton00

6" in length


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## DJRansome

The fish are going to prefer tighter spaces than that. I have full size fish and buried in the rocks are 6" lengths of 3" PVC and even then they would prefer something smaller.


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## jphanton00

How do they turn around in such a narrow space? I was looking at cichlid stones until someone said their cichlid got stuck in one.


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## DJRansome

The fish can back up. They just can't escape if the sides of their bodies get wedged in too narrow of a space. This usually happens when they are darting away from an aggressor and they misjudge the size of the hole they dart into. Or the opening is big enough, but it narrows as you progress inside. The momentum is what gets them stuck.


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## jphanton00

Ok so here is my Cichlid condo prototype. Each 'room' is 6"D x 2.5"H x 4"W with a 2.5"H x 2"W opening. I am ordering natural slate tiles and my dad is cutting them to my specs. I bought some silicone glue like they use with the aquariums to bond the pieces together. What do you think? Are the dimensions ok? It won't look this choppy when I'm done, but this is a rough draft so-to-speak. I want to make 3 of these each with 5 'rooms' for a total of 15 since I'll end up with 12 cichlids by the time I'm done building my community.


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## NJmomie

Interesting, would love to see the final outcome.


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## islandlife7309

I think that's pretty awesome. I too would love to see what it looks like when it's done. My issue is I need to have seperate caves since mine get territorial over the cave. Kind of a pain but I will accomadate to my little fishy friends. If they aren't happy then I did something wrong and need to re-decorate.


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## jphanton00

After consulting with an expert I think you may be right...a condo setup isn't really ideal since they claim territory with is usually an area in the aquarium. That wouldn't really work for a condo. They'd be too close to each other. The dominant one would probably claim the entire condo leaving the others with nowhere to go.


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## islandlife7309

im actually going to the store tomorrow to see if a snake or lizard cave would work. the limestone takes up way to much space and doesnt really look nice when they tumble over... im afraid the falling rocks are going to crush them. if the caves opening isn't big enough for the fish, i was thinking of building my own caves with PVC piping and using silicone to cover them with river rocks or something around that idea.


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## jphanton00

I'm learning that PVC might be the way to go. That with some rock piled on top and around it seems to mimic their natural habitat while giving them some manmade places to hide. I researched their natural habitat and its nothing but a giant rockpile under water with some patches of sand in there from what I could find.


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## islandlife7309

PVC it is! The LPS didnt have any lizard caves big enough for the cichlids. so i figure PVC, river rocks, and some silicone will be fine.


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## Schweitzer1214

I have 2 grown green terrors and two babies and the mother and baby love the large cichlid stones. The male won't fit in it but the female can and I have a 55 gallon also. I like them


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## islandlife7309

I'm afraid they won't be big enough.... my biggest fish is about 8'' and pretty round haha. maybe i can get some for my littler fish.


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## jphanton00

Well how artsy craftsy are you? Because there's several different ways to go here. Some places sell clay pots that are pretty round. You could break out the bottom and maybe silicone two of those together. I don't know that I would stack rock on top or heavy rock but you could maybe stack some slate pieces. I'm not a fan of the orangey clay look so I'd definitely be siliconing some rock to that bad boy and making it into a full blown crafts session. OR you can go to a crafts store or wherever and find like a wide, long glass vase although I'd break the bottom with caution. Jagged edges would concern me but you could always silicone those or see if you can find a glass place to cut it and sand the edges. I could keep going with ideas but I think you get the picture lol. I think PVC was just the most convenient and easiest way to go, but really the possibilities are endless if you want to put the time into it.


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## islandlife7309

picked up the PVC and silicone today... its very tedious to get the rocks to stay on it and in place without sliding everywhere haha. guess its a game of patience here, but im more stubborn then the rocks so i shall win this.. might take a few days but it will get done! i agree on the pots the color is horrendous! i just used a jigsaw to cut throught the PVC and a dremel on the parts that came out a big jagged to smooth everything over.


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## NJmomie

islandlife7309 said:


> picked up the PVC and silicone today... its very tedious to get the rocks to stay on it and in place without sliding everywhere haha. guess its a game of patience here, but im more stubborn then the rocks so i shall win this.. might take a few days but it will get done! i agree on the pots the color is horrendous! i just used a jigsaw to cut throught the PVC and a dremel on the parts that came out a big jagged to smooth everything over.


I have read some people silicone rocks onto pots and to cover the orange color, they sprinkle sand on the silicone before it dries. Maybe you can do the same to the PVC.


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## islandlife7309

thank you! ill have to try that. the PVC shifts sometimes causing all the rocks to fall off before they dry :x very aggravating! haha its okay though good therapy i suppose


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## DJRansome

I siliconed substrate and rocks onto terra cotta when first starting out. I got it to stick initially pretty well, but long term it did not hold 100% and I found the look to be more natural just to bury the terra cotta with big rocks...not attached. Just piled around and over. The terra cotta (or PVC) gives a solid platform inside the rock pile. The the pile of rocks around the terra cotta gives even more nooks, crannies and swim-throughs for the females.


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## islandlife7309

not done yet but this is what its coming out to be, for all the white spots ill be attatching shells as well. not the prettiest but at least it will take up less space and i wont be worrying if the limestone is gunna fall on them


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## jphanton00

Looks good!! Here's mine...opted for the 2" PVC. And those are the glow rocks that glow under blue LED (only black rock I could find that was the perfect size lol).


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## islandlife7309

that looks awesome! hopefully the fish will appreciate all the hard work going into this hahaha.


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## partsrep

jphanton00 said:


> Ok so I think I'm going to make a condo out of natural slate tiles I found and some silicone glue. What dimensions are safe? I'll be adding other cichlids, but at adulthood they shouldn't be more than 6" in length. I'm thinking one cave in this condo should be 6" x 6" x 6"...is that big enough?


Just stack them carefully. I wouldn't glue them together in case you want to rearrange in the future.


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## jakekersley

8" PVC cut into a half moon shape would look good.


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## jraccah1

jphanton i know you already started the PVC project but i just wanted to give you my 2 cents on the cichlid stones. I tried making my own cave structures out of slate and the fish hated it, and then i tried PVC and i didnt like the look of it so finally i went the cichlid stones. I ordered the 15 pack, only 10 were realistically sized for my tank as some of my fish are bout 5-6 inches i put them in along with some other rocks and i love how its turned out! the fish love them! my fuelleborni (who seems to be the alpha of the tank) claimed one of the big ones and hes constantly in it...I really love the cichlid stones and i can honestly give them a 5/5 rating.

here is how my tank looks before and after


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## cichlid-gal

Large cichlid stones are pretty big. I've had a fish get stuck in Texas holey rock but not the stones. The large stones will take up quite a bit of space but they can be stacked. What actually works pretty nice is to add just a few cichlid stones in with some real stonework...giving the fish a couple of extra caves to use. My peacocks fit in the large caves with no problems.....they were not fully grown but maybe 5-6 inches grown.


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## master chi

I've had cichlid stones in my 55 for years. Never have I had a fish get stuck in one.

I have a feeling the "6 inch acei" either didn't want to come out or he was much bigger than 6 inches.

My male zebra is 6 inches he uses not only the large one all the time but the medium ones as well.

Also the company who makes the stones has included a new large stone and a giant stone as well. The giant stone looks more like a log to me,but it does have 2 openings which is cool. Like DJ said the fish like tighter spaces,I really have a hard time seeing a fish get stuck in the stones.

Anyways I would suggest getting a lot of them if you do,but mixing them in with river stones is also a good looking option.
For a 55 I would get 3 Large stones,about 15-2o medium stones,But feel free to get more and stack them really high. The small stones are only good for tiny fish like fry or just for filling in those gaps between the larger stones,again creating those tight spaces DJ mentioned.

I have mentioned in previous inquiries to the cichlid stones that in my opinion the biggest advantage to using them exclusively is their weight. Not because I'm concerned about the rock weight breaking the tank,but rather the absolute ease with which changing the rockwork becomes.

They are really lightweight and cleaning the tank and stones becomes a bit simpler. I do make sure to clean the tank more often with the stones in because fish waste will eventually find it's way into the stones. Ususally I just flip over all the stones then vacum and water change after. Never had an issue,in fact my fish absolutely love them. And no I do not work for the company that makes them, I just really like them. Of my few large tanks they are only in 1 but that 1 is my living room tank which I watch the most.


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## 748johnd

The acei that got stuck got into a stone that was not very large and it could barely turnaround. I was able to work it out with no noticeable damage to the fish, but as I stated, I was at the point of thinking about breaking the stone.


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## iridextr

Honestly I would just suggest you go to your local stone yard and get some rocks there. I got 160 pounds of rock for like 15 bucks one time from their clearance pile. While they want larger stones for landscaping, they have no use for smaller stones and sell them for about 3 cents a pound at most places, perfect for fish tanks, especially a 55. While the cichlid stones are great looking at all, you can have them order lace rock if they do not have it and it's about 25 cents a pound and in my opinion looks better. The rock possibilities are endless but I would highly recommend you get something from a stone yard instead of cichlid stones.

If you wanted to make something out of slate, you might be interested in this stuff called like, irregular tumbled stone, at least that's what they call it at the place I go to. Imagine a 3 dimensional rectangle with perfectly flat sides but corners that aren't exactly uniform. they look great and are cheap, and much easier to stack than slate as they're thicker and have 90 degree angles. I use it for my breeding setup.


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## jphanton00

I bought about 120 lbs of rock of various sizes and stacked them. Its working really well and looks nice too. Right now I'm trying to get Java Moss to grow on them and I planted Jungle Vallisneria in the corners.


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## Drew90

I use cichlid stones and have never had any issues with fish getting stuck. I like using them, I believe they are made of ceramic. Taking them in and out of the tank is very easy, unlike some rocks. If you do buy cichlid stones, I would advise you to buy the large to medium size stones. The small ones that come in the bulk pack are worthless in my opinion. At least my cichlids did not show any interest in them.


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## underwatergirl

+1 to Drew90. And cleaning them is pretty easy.

I noticed in jraccah1's picture that all of the cave openings are facing forward. Have you tried them in different positions? Just curious. I have mine in 2 piles, openings placed randomly. I have an alpha peacock who has claimed the space between/underneath one pile, and also another large cave in the other pile. I'm wondering if I changed it to your format, things might change in the tank...for the better.


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## islandlife7309

in all honesty, i have the cichlid stones as well and my fish have no interest in them. They seem to prefer the PVC or my limestone stacks. I bought a smaller size one also for the babies to have somewhere to go so the bigger ones dont eat them and they seem to like the holy rocks. Very interesting fish here.


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## underwatergirl

islandlife7309 said:


> in all honesty, i have the cichlid stones as well and my fish have no interest in them. They seem to prefer the PVC or my limestone stacks. I bought a smaller size one also for the babies to have somewhere to go so the bigger ones dont eat them and they seem to like the holy rocks. Very interesting fish here.


Do you have mbuna? Just asking because of your profile pic. They tend to be more cave dwelling than peacocks and haps, but yours tend to break that mold  
I'm still going to try to move them around, maybe get some more harmony going on. Btw, my alpha is the only one that has spawned (many time over in the past 4 months)...buuuut maybe because my other haps are subdominant males!


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## master chi

islandlife7309 said:


> in all honesty, i have the cichlid stones as well and my fish have no interest in them. They seem to prefer the PVC or my limestone stacks. I bought a smaller size one also for the babies to have somewhere to go so the bigger ones dont eat them and they seem to like the holy rocks. Very interesting fish here.


My guess is that for the purpose of hiding ,mbuna would often choose holey rock over spawning.
I used to use an artificial holey rock,in conjunction with the cichlid stones.I can honestly say from experience they definitely preferred the holey rock for hiding.

Spawning however was a completely different animal. I would often get to see my cichlids spawning in the large stones. My large male Zebra would always get kinda stuck on the holeyrock,which is why I no longer use them.And use the stones or river,and Black Lava rocks instead.

By the way your large zebra in your profile pic is Gorgeous!!! Waddya feed that guy islandlife? LOL :fish:


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## Jaffy

I've been using the stones for three years. The fry and jouvies will appreciate the small stones. I have a trio of bushes nosed plecos that are constantly using the small caves or their breeding.

Can't wait to restart my tanks lol.


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## Derpfish

I have several cichlid stones but I'm in the process of replacing them with real rocks because my peacocks and haps don't like them. They prefer caves that have 2 openings, so the "giant" stone which has 2 openings is the only one I ever see them go in. They actually prefer crevices and caves formed by stacking the rocks, but you have to be careful when stacking ceramic stones because they don't weigh very much and are thus more easily knocked around and you could have a pile cave in on a fish (especially when cleaning the tank).

This is an old pic. I've since removed the plants and about 2/3 of the stones. My cichlids preferred to going between the stones rather than inside them, except for the "giant" one on the bottom, and you could do this for a lot less money with real rocks.
http://img297.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _145lo.jpg


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## islandlife7309

So sorry for the late response, my computer broke. I do have mbuna species and my profile pic isn't one of my fish sadly =( just one I would love to have. My fish get omega one cichlid flakes and frozen blood worms here and there. Been thinking of throwing a few crickets in there but we will see!


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## Bowfront

Turn your lights down if you don't want the algae. I have carefully placed dimmer lighting on my tanks and they still show off the fish just fine. I never have to deal with algae. TX holey rocks looks awesome.
.


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## austings

I bought two of the 15 pack stones for my 55 gallon tank. I didnt use one of the big ones, and about 5 of the smaller ones. My fish hide in them all the time. The algae scrubs off really easily.


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## richraceri

I control the algae growth by putting my holey rock stones on an old cookie sheet and baking them in the oven at 250-275F weekly while cleaning the tank. I unload the stones anyway to gravel up the dirt so while I'm doing that 20-30min in the oven sterilizes the rock (kills the forming algae). Of course you have to cool the rocks before throwing them back in the tank. I don't try this with the resin decorations plastic etc as its likely to melt. Just oven cook them weekly. It seems to work pretty well.


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## jphanton00

I've decided to just leave it...they like eating it and I can't get rid of the brown coloration unless I find someone with a power washer. And its not worth it.


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## Sparrow19

If you have enough Tx Holey Rock, you can change them out. The best way to clean is to set them outside in direct sun for a few days. The sun will bleach them back white and kill anything on it. Then swap the clean with the old and repeat.


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## underwatergirl

Sparrow19 said:


> If you have enough Tx Holey Rock, you can change them out. The best way to clean is to set them outside in direct sun for a few days. The sun will bleach them back white and kill anything on it. Then swap the clean with the old and repeat.


Do you think this process will work with lace rock too (if that's what I have)?


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## underwatergirl

Derpfish said:


> I have several cichlid stones but I'm in the process of replacing them with real rocks because my peacocks and haps don't like them. They prefer caves that have 2 openings, so the "giant" stone which has 2 openings is the only one I ever see them go in. They actually prefer crevices and caves formed by stacking the rocks, but you have to be careful when stacking ceramic stones because they don't weigh very much and are thus more easily knocked around and you could have a pile cave in on a fish (especially when cleaning the tank).
> 
> This is an old pic. I've since removed the plants and about 2/3 of the stones. My cichlids preferred to going between the stones rather than inside them, except for the "giant" one on the bottom, and you could do this for a lot less money with real rocks.
> http://img297.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _145lo.jpg


Even though you switched to real rocks, I do find the way you had the stones haphazardly stacked to be visually appealing. I too switched to real rocks and added a few flower pots with the bottom tapped out so there was 2 exits. I also had a large cichlid stone that broke on one side and decided to make another hole at the back, put this in the other tank. The haps totally dig it


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