# Cycle of 75gal



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Need some opinions. . . I have been cycling our new 75g with ammonia and substrate and bio-media from an established tank. We added 4 drops ammonia day 1, 6 day 2, 8 day 3, 10 day 4. Day 1 ammonia read 1 ppm, day 2-2 ppm, day 3-1 ppm, day 4-1 ppm. I have read that it is best to get it up to 5 ppm, but it seems to be in limbo. . . should I just keep adding more?? Or do I just have enough established bacteria from the other tank to get rid of quite a bit of it as I am adding it? Any help is much appreciated!


----------



## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

check your nitrite and nitrate levels. let us know what they say and we can tell you how far along you are.

either you are not adding enough ammonia or like you said you might have enough bacteria from filter media that it is keeping the ammonia low.


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Without checking your nitrate and nitrite levels as well, ammonia alone isn't necessarily a good indicator of your tank cycle progress.


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

DUH!  Sorry. . .I was in a hurry. . . nitrite is at about 0.25, nitrate 0.


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Added 10 drops last night. . . ammonia is now at .5 at the most, nitrite 0.25, nitrate 0.


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Let me direct you to another post which is very similar to what you are experiencing. It is a long read, but there is a lot of good information.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=196000

I am with prov356 with his feeling that 5 ppm ammonia is too high; I have had better luck with starting smaller and working my way up. The bacteria need a chance to grow and I have found faster results cycling a tank where the ammonia isn't at such a high concentration.

If you are seeing some nitrite, that is a good sign. This means that you have bacteria breaking down the ammonia.

Once your ammonia drops to zero each test, you should see your nitrite levels start to climb. Keep adding ammonia like you have been, and eventually you will see your nitrite spike pretty high with no measurable nitrate. The buildup of nitrifying bacteria can take a while, so it still might be another week or two before you see a decrease of nitrite and an increase of nitrate. When it happens, it seems to happen pretty quickly.

You are at your full cycle when ammonia and nitrite levels are at 0 when you test and you see a steady rise in nitrate over time.

Keep doing what you are doing and it will get there. A fishless cycle can take time, but patience is a must. Adding fish to a tank before a cycle is complete can make the fish sick and/or kill them. In this world, that can be a hefty chunk of money when your average fish is $8 or more a piece!


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Thanks so much! I had already read that rather lengthy section on here, my reason for being somewhat confused, was that I had also read (elsewhere) that I would only need to add 4 or 5 drops daily. That was obviously not true since I am now up to 12, and still only slight read on ammonia and nitrite. It is good to know that I am going the right direction. I have no problem being patient as we are planning on fully stocking the tank all at once and I want it to be able to take that load. 
One last question. . . we are leaving next week Friday for vacation for a week, I doubt the tank will be fully cycled by then, so my question is. . . should I just have our house sitter add x amount of drops of ammonia to the tank daily until we get back to keep the established bacteria fed??

Thanks again!


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Make sure you aren't putting too much ammonia in your tank; add it once every 24 hours or so, and do a test before you add. You should be able to figure out how much it should take to get your water volume to x ppm by how much ammonia already tested in the tank.

Concerning your vacation, I really don't know! I've never had to stop mid cycle!

Maybe somebody else can chime in?


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

I add at around 6 p.m. everyday, and I test before I add. I agree. . .I definitely don't want to do too much! I just can't seem to get it above 1 ppm, but it hasn't been too long yet, I'm sure I just need to be more patient.


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Added 16 drops of ammonia yesterday, today's readings are at ammonia-0.5, nitrite-0.5, nitrate-5. Should I be trying to get the ammonia higher still?? It just seems like something's not right to me, and I have never cycled a tank this way before. Any direction or suggestions???


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

It would appear that things are going well, although if you are seeing nitrate, you really shouldn't be seeing a whole lot of ammonia. Have you seen a sharp increase of nitrite yet?

I would just keep adding ammonia. It looks like you have some bacteria built up, but you're not out of the woods yet.


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Nitrite is slowly climbing, just concerned that I am showing a reading on all 3 at the same time. Ammonia is really low. . . it was barely at 0.5, and could have easily been at 0.25. Nitrite hasn't really "spiked" I suppose since it's only up to 0.5. Ugh. . . . wish this was a little easier! It sounded easy enough, just don't wanna screw it up somehow and have to start over. :?


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

How much media are you using from the established tank?

Also, how old is your test kit?

If you have any airstones that you can add, I have been told that aeration will help speed up the cycle.

It appears to me that you have some bacteria built up but you have definitely not experienced a full cycle.

Keep adding ammonia. Once you see your ammonia drop to zero during a test, I would expect to see a spike in Nitrite.


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Media from our other 2 tanks consist of:
-Couple of handfuls of rocks
-Squeezed clean one bio-filter from one tank into 75 gal
-Placed whole bio-filter (one of the sponges from a whisper 60) from another tank into filter on 75 gal

The test kit we just got about 2 weeks ago, new. It is the full test kit and not the strips. We have a powerhead on our other tank that I thought of moving to the 75, or we might just buy another one since we need it anyway. I added a little over 1 mL of ammonia last night and will check the levels in a couple hours. Let you know what it reads then. Thanks again for your help! Its nice to have some advice since I've never done this before.


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

I don't think you have enough of a colony built up yet.

My suggestion would be to keep adding ammonia.


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

*Raschael*,

It's easiest if you work out a formula for what you predetermine you want to cycle to. For instance, if you decide to cycle to 2ppm (because, yes, 5ppm is way too much) then figure out how many drops you need to add to get there. The way you do that is add some, say 10, then test after 15 minutes. If it reads 1ppm, then add the same amount again and it should be 2ppm (test after another 15 minutes). If it's not, then there's a problem with your test kit. ppm is parts per million. It's impossible to double the drops without doubling the ppm. It sounds like you're adding and then testing next day, which you should do, but to work out how many you need to add each day, you have to add, then wait long enough to let it work throughout the system, and test again. I wait about 15 minutes. By testing next day, you've given the bacteria time to convert some of the ammonia. That's the reason for the readings you're getting.

What I found for my Walmart ammonia is I needed 1 drop per gallon to raise the ammonia 1ppm. So for a 75 that I wanted to cycle to 2ppm, I'd be adding 150 drops per day. Being lazy, I added drops to measuring spoons/cups for larger tanks to see how many it took to fill a tsp, tbsp, etc. Then I could just add 2tsp or whatever. It took 100 drops to fill a teaspoon, I believe, but it's been a while. But anyway, I'd be adding 1.5 tsp per day, give or take, to a 75g using ammonia same as my Walmart brand ammonia. Precision isn't necessary. A little more or less is ok. Keep in mind the strength of your ammonia may be different, so your formula may work out differently.

I'd test each day and only add enough to bring it back up to 2ppm or whatever I was cycling to. So in your case, if I tested after 24 hours and got an ammonia reading of 1ppm, then I'd need to add half of the 1.5 tsp or 3/4 tsp. I'd ballpark it. Precision isn't necessary. Keep it simple. It only takes a day or two once it starts to drop for it to drop to 0 after 24 hours, then you're just adding the 1.5 tsp per day.

You'll still cycle fine the way you're going along, but as you're finding out, it's harder than it needs to be.

Regarding the other question, once you determine how many drops are needed to get to your desired ppm, then have whoever is caring for the tank add that many drops each day. Very simple to keep it going that way.

HTH


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Thanks so much! That is very helpful. I figured out, by doing additional research today, that I was just not adding nearly enough ammonia. So, my new calculation is just what you said, 10 drops per gallon (to get to 2 ppm), which would come out to 7.5 ml's, so roughly 1 and 1/2 teaspoonsful. I guess working in a pharmacy has finally paid off in the math department!!  So, I added that this evening. I suppose its too late to check the ammonia since its been a couple hours. . . I will have to check that tomorrow to see if we need to add more to get it up to 2 ppm. I suppose I have been making this much more difficult than necessary. Thanks again for y'alls help and I will keep you posted. Wish me luck!! :thumb:


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

I completely misunderstood your explanation of how much ammonia you were actually adding...I assumed you had been calculating it to 5 ppm from the start and that the number of drops you were adding was per gallon to get it up to your desired ppm. I just now understood that the amount your were adding was for the whole tank. I apologize for not paying enough attention as it probably would have saved you a lot of time in the past week.

That does explain why I was so confused by the readings you were getting...lol


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

LOL, yeah, I am sure I could have been more clear on my explanation, but having never cycled a tank this way before, I really wasn't sure how much to add. I just figured better safe than sorry and kept it low, REALLY low  . Oh well!! Lesson learned! Hopefully I haven't killed off too much bacteria by not adding enough. . . . guess we will soon find out! Keep you posted on my progress. . . or drawbacks. . . :roll:


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

I think it really takes a while to kill of the bacteria. You'll be fine!


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Okie dokie. . . ammonia reached 2 ppm last night. . woo hoo!  It is down to 1 ppm as of now, nitrite is at 1 and nitrate is at 5ish (looks to be between 5 and 10). Finally making some progress! Thanks again for all of your help!


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Yup, sounds like things are going in a good direction. :thumb:


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Ok. . . tonight ammonia at 1, nitrite up to 5, nitrate at 5. . . should I still add ammonia to get it back up to 2ppm?? or is the nitrite spike what it's suppose to do and I need to let the ammonia and nitrite get down to 0?? Thanks!


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Keep going with ammonia until your ammonia test shows a reading of 0.


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

So I just keep adding enough ammonia to get it back up to 2 ppm daily, and then eventually, over a 24 hour period, the ammonia and nitrite will drop to 0, right? Sorry to sound dumb, I am just trying to fully understand all this. Thanks!


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Yup! you got it!


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Raschael said:


> So I just keep adding enough ammonia to get it back up to 2 ppm daily, and then eventually, over a 24 hour period, the ammonia and nitrite will drop to 0, right? Sorry to sound dumb, I am just trying to fully understand all this. Thanks!


I second that, that's exactly right. :thumb: So you should have added 1ppm last night to bring it back up to 2ppm. Tonight, it may be 0, or not, but add what you need to in order to bring it back to 2ppm or so. It's usually only a day or so before ammonia reads 0 after 24 hours, then it gets easy. After a couple of days of a 0 ammonia reading, I even stop testing for it and just add it assuming it's 0. At that point just test for nitrite. Seems everybody wants to start testing also for nitrate, but don't bother until nitrite goes to 0. Then run a nitrate test to see what kind of water changes are needed to get them in line. Until nitrite drops, it doesn't matter what nitrate is doing.


----------



## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

alot of test will give you false readings on nitrates if you also have nitrites, so as prov said wait till your nitirites are zero before testing for your nitrates.


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

GaFishMan1181 said:


> alot of test will give you false readings on nitrates if you also have nitrites, so as prov said wait till your nitirites are zero before testing for your nitrates.


Most kits use Nitrate Reductase to break down nitrate into nitrite (or a process to break down nitrate into something else). The indicator in the kit actually tests for nitrite, and is sometimes the same indicator used for nitrite tests. This is the reason why that any presence of nitrite already in the water will skew your test results for nitrate for most kits. I am pretty sure the Salifert kit uses a different process (hence its $20 price kit for just the nitrate test kit!).

Being that you are already seeing some nitrite being produced in your tank, you are on the last leg of your cycle. Keep adding ammonia (up to the 2ppm million like you have been seeing) until a test 24 hours later shows 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and x level of nitrates. Like prov356 said, once you have an ample colony of bacteria able to break down the ammonia to a reading of 0, you really don't need to continue testing for it. These bacteria aren't going to go away unless something contaminates the tank and kills of bacteria.

So, you are going to keep adding ammonia like you have been doing but now you are testing for nitrites instead of ammonia. Once your nitrite levels are doneski, you should be cycled! =D>

Once you are cycled, you are going to want to get your nitrates down. I've read < 40 ppm being a safe number...I disagree with "safe" and would recommend keeping it much farther below that point IMO. A few water changes will do the trick.

Until you get your fish into the tank and producing ammonia of their own, I would keep adding some ammonia to keep your colony up and thriving. Stop adding ammonia a day before the fish are added, test and make sure your levels are all fine, and do another water change. Make sure all your water parameters are still kosher before you add any critters to the tank.


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Okay, I just got home from my week long vacation. I was unable to get the tank completely cycled before we left, so I just had the house sitter add "x" amount of ammonia everyday. I have come home to a tank that is at ammonia 1, nitrite 5. When I left, the tank had cycled down to ammonia at 0.5 (over 24 hours), and nitrite at a steady 5. So, I just need some advice. . . . we need to add water to the tank as it has lost a lot. We will treat for only the amount of water adding so we don't kill off what we have started. Where should I go from here?? Am I right in continuing to add enough ammonia to get it back up to 2 ppm daily until it reaches 0 over a 24 hour period?? I feel like I sound like a broken record, just worried I'm gonna screw it up. :? Thanks in advance!


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Am I right in continuing to add enough ammonia to get it back up to 2 ppm daily until it reaches 0 over a 24 hour period??


Yes, continue. Nitrites still just haven't dropped yet, but they should soon. Keep adding enough to bring it up to 2ppm until BOTH ammonia and nitrite are 0 after 24 hours. Then you're cycled.


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Thanks! Sorry to keep asking.. . . . .  Just had to be sure I didn't screw something up while we were gone.


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Just curious...how much ammonia did you have the sitter add daily?


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

She added 1 and 1/2 tsp (150 drops) daily around the same time. I found out yesterday after we spoke with her that she had added it at around 2 p.m. and then I tested at 7ish. So, today, 24 hrs later the ammonia and nitrite are both at 0.  Nitrate is only around 20.


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

So, now that the tank is cycled there is a brownish algae starting to grown on the glass. . . is that normal?? We don't have fish in it yet because the rest of our fish will be in Friday and we want to add them all at once, just want to be sure we don't need to do anything else. Thanks!


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Raschael said:


> So, now that the tank is cycled there is a brownish algae starting to grown on the glass. . . is that normal?? We don't have fish in it yet because the rest of our fish will be in Friday and we want to add them all at once, just want to be sure we don't need to do anything else. Thanks!


Yes, very normal in a newly cycled tank. It usually goes away in a few weeks or so and is replaced by a nice green algae. So, don't go crazy trying to eliminate it. A tank always gets better with age. Let things go their course and be in it for the long haul.


----------



## Raschael (May 8, 2009)

Thanks so much!


----------



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Algaes are a good sign my friend.

The brown algae only sticks around on the exit of my powerhead and on the holes in my spraybar. The bright green stuff grows everywhere else.


----------

