# RO water filter questions



## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

I've finally decided that I need to break down and get an RO water unit for my fish. All of the lugging around of buckets back and forth from work is really getting to me (I work in a lab, and I just "borrow" water as needed for my tank).

Anyway, I have a south american tank, and need to get the hardness down around 50ppm, from the 100+ that comes out of the tap. I can go with an aquarium RO filter, which looks like its going to run around $150 or so.

My hesitation is that I figured this might be a good chance to double up the RO unit for drinking water as well. Looking into the drinking water side of things, I end up seeing $250 or so, with small 4 gallon tanks. I only have 1 55 gallon tank, so a giant RO unit in the basement that can pump out 50 gallons a day does seem like overkill.

What I really need to know is what are the differences between these units (aquarium vs. drinking). The cost of the units themselves are one consideration. Replacement costs, as well as frequency of replacement for filters and membranes is a larger concern to me than the initial cost. Any suggestions, or areas to look for more advice? Could I buy an aquarium RO unit and just attach a faucet to it? Do I need a reservoir if I do that?


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

The worse your tap water is, the more expensive filtering becomes. RO membranes get clogged very quickly so a series of pre-filters are in order. It can become very expensive.

And, yes you will need a reservoir to collect water and an auto shut off valve because you WILL forget about it and it WILL overflow. We learned the hard way. 50 gallons a day may seem like overkill but imagine it taking 24 hours to fill your bathtub--you are not going to sit around and watch it fill.

Also, you will need to add a product such as RO right to put essential minerals back in the water for your tank.


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## Fishbulb2 (Sep 23, 2008)

Sorry I don't have time to post more right now. Here is a quick post I had on reefcentral regarding RO/DI. Of course the same applies to cichlids.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... id=1311827

In short, go for a 75gpd unit. Any of the decent reef units will be great for your needs. Check out filterguys.com, buckeyefieldsupply, or bulkreefsupply. Bulkreefsupply will have the cheapest/highest quality filters. Buy them in bulk to save more. Typically you'll need to replace the prefilters once every 6 months. You membrane should last you 5-10 years even in the worst water. I've had mine for 7 years now and that was 6 years in San Diego with chloramines and over 500 ppm total dissolved solids. Besides the dessert, it doesn't get much worse than that. You will definitely want a reservoir if you will use it for drinking. if this is only for your tank, then get an autoshutoff valve and a floatvalve and the unit will simply fill whatever size bucket you install the floatvalve to.

Let me know if you have anymore more questions that haven't been answered here or in the thread I posted. I have no idea why, but I really love dealing with RO units and such.

FB[/i]


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

So, thanks for the help, a few more questions:

I try and keep my tank around 50ppm, will I need to add DI as well, or will RO be just fine? I dont need zero dissolved solids, just a relatively low amount.

How do these aquarium units compare with the drinking water ones? Better performance, worse?

While discussing this with my wife, she wants to add a drinking water filter, so I initally though about getting an RO unit (then I could also use it for the fish tank). Cost is about $250USD for one with a 4 gallon tank, and something like 11gallons per day (meaning drawing off the water into buckets every few days for the fish tank). The other option is to get an aquarium RO unit (25gallons per day is between $100-120, 50 gallons per day is ~$150). If I went with the aquarium one, I could potentially use the extra money to buy an undersink carbon filter. Anyone have a suggestion one way or the other? Does anyone else use a drinking water RO filter for their tanks? Is it more difficult? Or easier to maintain just one system?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

I buy off ebay and have been very satisfied with all 4 R/O units I've purchased. (4 different houses LOL )

Just order a $120 unit and you're good for both drinking water, triple filtered "waste water" and R/O water for cutting the waste water with to arrive at a perfect hardness.


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## Fishbulb2 (Sep 23, 2008)

Generally, the reef units from higher quality than the ebay or strictly drinking water units (both in terms of hardware and cartridges included). You will most certainly NOT need DI resin to get 50 ppm no matter your input water conditions are. A properly functioning RO membrane (75GPD Dow filmtec) will reject ~98% of incoming TDS, so you will easily hit your 50ppm goal. Any of the vendors I listed previously can help you with a unit and will carry drinking water storage tanks. Some of the drinking water units sold at places like Costco (Watts units I think) require their own brand of special cartridges, so I would avoid those. If you have a link to the unit you are considering, please post it.

Ideally, get a unit with a 75gpd Dow Filmtec membrane. You will get a lot more water, faster, and at the highest rejection rate possible. Also, they don't cost any more than the alternatives. In fact, they are often cheaper than specialty membranes (like the Kent membranes).

FB


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

I was looking at this for drinking water
http://products.geappliances.com/ApplProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=SPECPAGE&SKU=PXRQ15F&SITEID=DER

It will run me about $250 if I buy it through GE

or this if I go aquarium
http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18565/si1378683/cl0/coralifepurefloiiro50gpd3canister

I could also go with the 24 gallon corallife model for $125.

so what im hearing is that a lot of the RO membranes and filters are universal from some of the online suppliers?


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## ccrider (Sep 5, 2008)

i installed the coralife unit under my kitchen sink with a culligan 4 gallon holding tank i bought used. works fine for drinking water and topping off my tanks. i installed a water filter before the ro unit filters for #1 i already had it,#2 i thought it would help the life of the ro membrane. i was also taking ro water from work in a 20 gallon barrel and got tired of it.it's allot easier carrying from the sink!


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Fishbulb2 said:


> Generally, the reef units from higher quality than the ebay or strictly drinking water units (both in terms of hardware and cartridges included). ...Dow Filmtec membrane.


Perhaps I just found one of the good ones off ebay?

I had heard this advice, read the articles, etc. and emailed the ebay vendor... the unit came with a DOW filmtec membrane, had the same exact quick disconnects, tubing, etc. so the only difference seemed to be the granulated carbon vs the solid block... in other words, the inserts that I can buy at the grocery store came with the reef system, but I had to buy them for the ebay unit.

$120 for the ebay unit, $30 for the solid block... $150... seemed a great deal compared to the reef r/o systems. Something to think about before ordering!

I suggest checking it out and then going with your gut: 
http://www.aquasafecanada.com/


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## Fishbulb2 (Sep 23, 2008)

The ebay unit I have (Water General), came with screw style compression fittings throughout. These have all developed slow leaks over the last 6 years or so. Not a huge deal but I've had to replace them all one at a time with John Guest style fittings that should last the life of the unit. John Guest fittings are also expensive so it adds up. The cheap little horizontal DI filter is also very inefficient and was replaced with a full size 10" canister. Again, not a huge deal but it really hasn't saved me any money. The guts (included filters) of the unit are also a big part of the cost so if you have to replace them all, then you aren't saving much. Mine came with a pretty poor membrane (~94-95% rejection) and that had to be replaced to save on DI resin.

That said, of course all ebay units aren't equal so a bargain can always be found there. There are certainly some high quality units there now (just not the Water General). Just don't bother with the units that have the tiny horizontal DI chambers. These are way less effective and more expensive to replace than the full size 10" vertical chambers. The difference between the poor quality units and top notch units really only comes into play if you are using DI resin. For your needs (getting 50ppm soft water), any unit will work. With DI resin, it removes everything your membrane leaves behind. The difference between an RO unit that removes 98% dissolved solids before it hits DI compared to one that only removes 96% is literally 2X the cost of DI resin needed to finish the job (2% vs. 4% TDS that gets through). So, it's generally not worth skimping on a decent unit. In your case, you should have no concern. You may want to make sure your unit has a pressure gauge and tds meter. Trouble shooting is essentially impossible without these simple devices.

FB


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## Fishbulb2 (Sep 23, 2008)

naegling23,

I definitely think you can get more for you dollar than the two units you linked to. I've never seen the first one by GE but for that price you should at least get a pressure gauge and TDS meter. Also, I can't tell if this unit uses standard prefilters or not. Regardless, I think you can get more for that price.

The coralife unit is also pretty expensive and comes with a lousy 24 gpd membrane. Remember, this is rater at 77 degrees F and something like 65psi. If you water is colder or you have slightly less pressure, expect even less water. For cheaper you can probably get a 75gpd membrane and be much better off. Check out some of these for starters. If you need help figuring out what you need to attach a storage tank, let us know and we can help you get all of the right fittings. Don't bother with a post storage tank carbon cartridge. It's unnecessary and may add phosphates is cheap carbon is used.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-Fil ... sis-(No-DI)/product_info.html

http://www.buckeyefieldsupply.com/showp ... 64&Sub=103

http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ro_systems.htm

These units are essentially all the same, but are all a significant step up from the units you linked to.

FB


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

thanks for the replies, they didnt seem like too great a deal, thats why I was asking.

So, if I went with this unit

http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ro_systems.htm

And added a storage tank, faucet, and fittings, im still under the 250 for the GE unit. One question. Could I add a T connector so that I could have 1 tube going to the tank for the faucet, and another one going to a bucket for the fish tank? How would a shut off valve work in this case?

Also, would this be long enough to mount the filter in the basement and run the tubing up to the kitchen (it would be mounted in the basement directly under the sink, so maybe 6-10 feet away)? Or does it really work best being directly under the sink?


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## Fishbulb2 (Sep 23, 2008)

You can add a T connector just fine. Most people run these with two outlets (1 for RO/DI water, and another for RO storage tank and faucet). Basically you tee off the water between the membrane and the storage tank. It is up to you if you want to install a check valve to isolate the storage tank from the aquarium or not. At start up, all RO units will produce high TDS water for a couple minutes and your storage tank will have quite a bit of this. So the TDS will be higher in the storage tank, then say 5-10 minutes after just running the RO unit. Isolating the storage tank from the aquarium line can help you prevent this but it also means you won't have 3-4 gallons of RO water immediately for your use.

The ASOV will work no problem when filling your storage tank but won't do anything when you open the line to the aquarium. When the aquarium line is closed, the back pressure from the storage tank will activate the shut off valve when the tank is full. For the aquarium line to automatically shut off, you would need to add a float valve.

Increasing the distance from the unit to the feed line and faucet will depend on your incoming pressure. I've never set up a unit so far away but I know it's done routinely without any problem. It all depends on the incoming (and thus storage) pressure.

FB


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

naegling23 said:


> So, if I went with this unit
> 
> http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ro_systems.htm


 $100 extra for clear housings isn't a bad deal over the aquasafe one... too much for my scottish blood, but I did like the one unit I got that had the clear housings. I doubt you'd regret it going with the filterguys one.



naegling23 said:


> Could I add a T connector so that I could have 1 tube going to the tank for the faucet, and another one going to a bucket for the fish tank? How would a shut off valve work in this case?


 that's what I did. I installed my R/O unit in the basement under the kitchen sink and ran the line up to the drinking tap at the sink. I used extra John Guest fittings to t off the line to the aquarium and I also added the same to the "waste" water since that is actually fantastic water since it's triple filtered. This meant that at any time I could turn on R/O water into my fish room in the basement and then turn on the triple filtered tap water line (since it started running right after the R/O ran) and could do water changes on my salt water tank and cichlid tanks!

Worked extremely well... I'm sad to no longer have my basement! I'm hoping the wife let's me do the same thing in the laundry room of this house! :thumb:


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

OK, so *** narrowed it down, I think im going with the 4 stage 75gpd RO system from bulk reef supply for 125 bucks. They also sell an economy 3 stage one for 90, is it worth it to have the extra stage?

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI...erse-Osmosis-System-(NO-DI)/product_info.html

The question I have is what Im going to need to complete my system. Since bulk reef supply does not sell "kits" I figured on the water tank, faucet, extra tubing, a float valve, and a T connector. Do I also need a connector adapter for the tubing to faucet? Is there anything else I need that Im overlooking?

Thanks for all your help, youve been amazing, and have saved me a whole bunch of money and headache already.


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## Fishbulb2 (Sep 23, 2008)

Hi naegling,

Both are great units. It looks to me that the only difference between the 4 stage and the economy stage is an extra carbon canister. I would recommend you call your water district and find out if you have chloramines in your water. If you do not, then you don't need the extra carbon anyways, and that money would be better spent on crucial accessories like a TDS meter and pressure gauge. I like these units and the fact that adding high quality DI housings later would be a breeze should you ever decide you want them. In the future, when you change out the sediment and carbon filters, go with the finest micron rating you can and just change them out every 6 months. 
Something like:

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-Fil ... _info.html

and

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-Fil ... _info.html
in a .6um or 1 um rating. When you place your order, you may even be able to get them to ship it with these rating filters instead of the advertised 5uM filters. The only reason not to go with a finer filter rating is if they clog prematurely before the 6 month change period.

Looking over your list of accessories it looks like you are close. However, make sure you get 2 TEES. This is something everyone overlooks. It will not work with one, you need two. (look here http://www.spectrapure.com/support_hud_addons.htm under RO/DI with reservoir and ice maker to how to set it up. Instead of to ice maker, your line would just go to your RO faucet and instead of to DI resin, your other line would just release RO water for your fish tank). Also an additional inline check valve will be useful if you want to isolate the storage tank from the fish RO water. That is your call. Isolating the tank will result in slightly less TDS in the fish product water due to a lack of accumulating TDS creep. You can also see where this check valve is installed in the above diagram.

I am not sure why you included a float valve. How are you planning on using this? They can do much more harm than good if used improperly.

It looks like the unit comes with an adapter to connect it to a laundry or kitchen sink style faucet for the feed water. But if you are going to drill your sink to install an RO faucet then I think you will want to plumb the unit under the sink for a nice clean look with no water lines and adapters to connect and disconnect with each use. For that you will need the shutoff valve that is already included and something like the following adapters to feed the unit:

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-Fil ... 22-(Faucet)/product_info.html

and for the drain line:

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-Fil ... _info.html

Otherwise I think you have everything.

HTH,
FB


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

Alright, everyone here has been great, thanks for all the advice. As Im here typing, the filter is doing its 1 hour flush. I anxious to get it up and running for my fish water, then Im going to tackle the drinking water side of things.......one problem though....how do I install the storage tank????

I figured that I would have 1 T connection, one going into a bucket to fill my fish tank water, and the other running to a storage tank connected to a faucet for drinking water...but, now that Im looking at all the parts, I dont know how to connect it. Any help?


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## Fishbulb2 (Sep 23, 2008)

High naegling23,

You should need 2 tees to do what you want. One tee is used at the pressure storage tank feed the tank and send the stored water to the drinking faucet. The other tee splits the RO water either before or after the storage tank to fill your fish storage tank. I briefly described this 2 posts up but I think your best bet is to download some of those spectrapure diagrams from their site. It will make a lot more sense than my describing to you. Is the spectrapure diagram i linked to above OK or unclear?

FB


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## naegling23 (Jan 4, 2008)

ah, got it now...im missing the part that connects to the top of the water tank, ill have to see if I can find one at the local hardware store (LHS)


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## Fishbulb2 (Sep 23, 2008)

Good, glad you figured it out. Yes, you need a fitting on the storage tank, and typically a tee with it also to allow one end to come from the RO unit to fill the tank, and the other end to run to your faucet ect. I believe I've seen all of these connectors at Home Depot but their stock does vary from store to store. Good luck with it and let us know if you have any other questions!

FB


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## dixgomez (Feb 18, 2009)

naegling23 said:


> I've finally decided that I need to break down and get an RO water unit for my fish. All of the lugging around of buckets back and forth from work is really getting to me (I work in a lab, and I just "borrow" water as needed for my tank).
> 
> Anyway, I have a south american tank, and need to get the hardness down around 50ppm, from the 100+ that comes out of the tap. I can go with an aquarium RO filter, which looks like its going to run around $150 or so.
> 
> ...


I think you should try collecting water filter brand and unit informations for making some comparisons of what is better to you... check there stats for specific comparing of those water filter...

_________________
Everpure Filters


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