# Filtration



## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Is a Fluval 305 sufficient to filter a 55 gal tank? I also have UGJ. And is a UV sterilizer a neccesity?

thank you in adcvance


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## Sierra255 (Jan 19, 2006)

I had a 304 on my 55 gallon and it was sufficient. I assume the 305 will be as well. If you're overstocked, you may need something else, but it should be fine in general.


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## Cich of it all (Mar 29, 2007)

That's a bare minimum for a 55. If you're getting it new, I would consider paying an extra $40 and getting the 405. That, or add an AC50 for $20 from petsmsart.com


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## bigvisk (Sep 23, 2006)

i would say, depends on the fish and stock levels, and amount of feeding, but id go with more to be safe (course i am a heavy stocker)


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> And is a UV sterilizer a neccesity?


No, it's not a necessity. Do some research and decide if you really want one before investing in it. Start with a search of this forum.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

I know it's been a while but I hope someone replies...I have had the Fluval 305 running now with this setup for two years. It seems to be fine for this size and the 10 fish varying in size from 3" to almost 6" for some. My question is, should my filter get so dirty at the end of the month when I do my cleaning of it. I mean It's practically not pumping at all by that time. Would I have this problem if I got a larger filter?


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

yes you will still that that problem, it just means your tank get really dirty and your filter is doing a good job of sucking it up, you need to try either feeding less or cleaning the filter more, see how that works


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

To have a Fluval 305 almost completely clog up in just a month is pretty severe. IMO, its a clear case of under filtering. Aquarium needs change over time as fish get bigger. What may have "cut it" in the past, may be insufficient now.

You will want to either get another 305, or replace yours with a considerably larger filter. I would go with a second filter method. 2 filters are a smart and practical way to filter an aquarium for various reasons.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

How often should the filter be cleaned?


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

Well, a properly sized canister(s) filter for a well stocked African cichlid tank could arguably be cleaned every 6 months without risk of poisoning the water or completely clogging the filter.

I know *fmueller* said he cleans his about every 6 months. I clean my every 4 for good measure, but some say you can disturb the bacteria colonies by cleaning it too often.

That's why I say you're under filtering your tank. Remember, the rule-of-thumb is 10x filtration (though some say 8x filtration and 10x for water flow) for cichlid tanks.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

My Fluval 304 is pretty old now, what would u recommend for my 55gal?


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

Using the 8x-10x filtration rule, that brings the numbers to 440GPH-550GPH.

Now, I don't now what your budget, preferences, or space requirements are, but as I mentioned earlier, I'd prefer 2 filters as opposed to 1 large one. I would use two identical filters for ease of use, setup, and interchangeability of media between the 2 canisters.

You could do two EHEIM 2217's though some will say that is too much and too pricey. You could do two Rena XP1's which would be more affordable.

Again, its up to you. You could chose 1 large filter if you wanted as well. The most important part is that you know generally what GPH you need to end up with to properly filter your tank. After that, you can peruse through the reviews section on this site to select which filter(s) you want to buy.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Y did'nt you recommend a Fluval?


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

Cento said:


> You will want to either get another 305, or replace yours with a considerably larger filter. I would go with a second filter method..


 Yes I did.... 

Its totally up to you what you chose. What brand, and what type is the best is a whole other ball of wax and an unending string of threads (arguments) on this forum.... :lol:


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Oh ya on your 1st response...silly me   Thank you. And when I clean them do I clean both of them at the same time or work it out where I am cleaning one at a time?


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

Probably one of the greatest benefits of having 2 filters as opposed to one large one is that you can clean them one at a time a few months (or several wks) apart.

That way you won't have to worry too much about destroying the bacterial colonies when cleaning your filter, because the other will be the backup. Also, another "pro" of having 2 filters is if one filter for some crazy reason fails, you're not SOL for filtration. You have one still running while you address the failing one.

With planning, a little thinking, and some research, you'll be fine, I'm sure. Good luck! :thumb:


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Great :thumb: I really appreciate all the input. I think I'll get a 305 along with my 304 so I can buy the same media for both.


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## victorylane25 (Jul 28, 2007)

emperor 400's work aswsome


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Thank you thats good to kno, but i feel it would be easier to get a second of the filter i already own :wink:


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

So I got the new 305 now...where should I put the intakes and outlets? Should I put both intakes in the middle and an out in each end, or should I do in out in out across the back? Also I know the heater should be by the outlet so thats going to be tough to place. :-?


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

I thought the 10x filtration rule was only for HOB's, while for canisters only 4-5x is sufficient?


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

well for many years now, I have had to clean my 304 every month to keep it clean... :? I'm hoping to extend my cleaning to 4-6 months now


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

*shrug* if you want simple maintenance, get 2 aquaclear110 HOB filters for ~$100 shipped to your door from ebay. Each is rated at 500gph. I use 2 on my 55g tank. I use 1 sponge and the bio rings that came with the filters. I rinse all media every week in tank water during my weekly water changes. piece of cake.

Keep in mind that you're not really solving the problem by adding more filters. All that gunk will still be in your tanks, just spread out more. Sounds like a nitrate problem waiting to happen to me. I'd hate to see 6 months worth of what my AQ110's collect contributing to my tanks bioload.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Well i have the 2 canisters now, I set it up so my jets are from left to right an outlet all the way on the left pointing to the right, then the inlet about 15" away then the other outlet 10" away, then the other inlet on the right side of the tank.


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

Hey, great! :thumb: Can you post a pic?

I'm sure you'll see great improvement in your water quality. Also, I noticed in your "Tank profile" pic (don't know if its current) that your substrate is very thick in places. You can even see build up of sludge through the tank. Keep an eye on that, as this can also contribute to spikes. I would suggest removing some substrate.

Happy fishkeeping!


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Well it's been a day now and the water is'nt as clear as I'd like it. It still seems like there is stuff floating around??  And as for my substrate, I have so much because for 1 I am trying to hide the UGJ's and 2 they ALL like to dig. That being said how much(in inches) should I have?


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

It'll take a few days before you start seeing real results. Give it time, and make sure you have good use of your media space in the filters (both in volume and in types of media) and you'll get on track.

As for substrate thickness, I'd say 2" its the max depth. I understand you wanna try and hide the jets, however unless you disturb the entire substrate bed regularly and give it DEEP vacuumings, it won't get oxygenated. That's when food and waste will rot and produce hydrogen sulfite. When there is too much substrate, or it is too thick in areas and becomes compacted, it'll breed bacteria which generate this gas.

You wouldn't notice anything is wrong the first few months of a setup. But after a long period of time, the hydrogen sulfite builds up, and thats when it can become very harmful. Then one day, the next time the substrate is disturbed (during a big cleaning or vacuuming), it will then be released into the water, possibly killing your fish.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

ok, next time i re-arange the rocks I'll remove some sand. Usually though when I clean my filter the water is crystal clear by morning. Now I just added a second measure of filtration and the water looks worse :-? Well I'll give it time like you said. What do you think as far as jet placement now that I have 2 inlets and 2 outs?


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

Did you rinse the media well? Sometimes, if its not rinsed very well, residual dust will float around for a while, until the filtration can grab it again.

Also, what _types_ of filtration media do you have (ceramic tubes, bio balls, filter floss, sponge, etc)? If I remember correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong), you stated you use just one type of media?

As for the inlet/outlet situation, without a pic, its hard to say. However I would say the goal should be twofold; to create a type of current cycle, to mimic a real river or lake, and second, if possible, to direct the waste in the aquarium into the inlets to be filtered. If you can do in conjunction with your jets, you're set.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

I'm kinda used to rinsing media so i think i did a good job, but when i started up the new filter some clowdyness did come out for a bit but went away quickly. As for the media; in my 304 i've had for a while i put chemi-pure bags in the bottom and a mix of bio balls and ceramics in the middle and top....in the new 305 I put carbon in the bottom and middle to clear the water well and the bio balls that came with the filter in the top one. With this i figured it would keep the water clearer.



tooch420 said:


> I set it up so my jets are from left to right an outlet all the way on the left pointing to the right, then the inlet about 15" away then the other outlet 10" away, then the other inlet on the right side of the tank.


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

So, I'm not entirely sure the order of your particular canister, but I'm going to assume that the bottom is the first tray the water comes into contact with.

That being the case, I would but the coarsest media first, to filter out larger particles; weather that be ceramic rings or sponge. Then you can put either your bio-max or your bio balls in the middle tray for bacteria to build up in. Lastly, I would use filter floss or cotton batting. This is the most basic and important way to polish your water and filter out fine particles. Perhaps in one filter you can use bio max in the middle chamber, and in the other's middle chamber, you can place the bio balls.

Also a word about carbon: not all agree, however many feel carbon is useless in the aquarium. It's rendered useless in nearly a month as it becomes over saturated. On top of that, some studies say that if pushed to service beyond its saturation point, it'll actually release some of the impurities back into the tank. Bottom line: IMO, don't use it...


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

If you want to add filtration cheap, AC50's are $17 on Dr. F&S with the cheat code. I just ordered 2 yesterday.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

I only used the carbon because it came with the new filter. I usually use the chemi-pure and it seems to work great, and lasts for a few months. As far as the media placement goes, I was just following the recommendation from Fluval when I got the filter....Its through the sponges 1st, then the carbon/chemi bags(bottom), then bio-balls(mid and top), but in the second filter I have twice as many bags. 
Should I remove the carbon now or let the new filter run for a bit?


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

I would just leave the carbon for now. But when the time comes to remove it, I wouldn't replace it. As for media placement and selection, what I mentioned earlier is pretty much the basic types and ways media is found in most filtering applications, however, try asking around to see what other 304/305 users find the most successful.

Just remember, when you clean the filters to do it, at the very least, a week apart to allow bacteria colonies to recover.

P.S, got your PM, but still waiting for those pics....


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Did you get the pics now?? If not I'll send again, but does my jet layout sound good?

The water is still "not clear" so I just did another 20 gal replacement, and I noticed there is still gunk in the substrate. I think I need to get rid of most of it, but how do I do it without killing the fish?


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

Nope, no pics... I'll pm you the address again...

As for the substrate and gunk, if you use a "Python" to vacuum and change water, and do so carefully and deeply, you should be okay. Then remove however much substrate you wish. You could temporarily move your fish to another tank or bucket to be safe, but I don't really think you need to go that far. Its up to you.

I'm more concerned about the beneficial bacteria, which a very large amount resides in the substrate. I wouldn't want you to go through a mini "cycle". But I think if you do it in stages (don't remove all the excess substrate at once, but over the course of a few days), and you haven't washed or disturbed the media in your old canister, you should be fine.

Your on the right track. You just have a few kinks to work out, so "clear water" isn't gonna happen overnight for you, but you'll get there. Patience is the key with this stuff. I've learnt that when it comes to aquarium chemistry and fishkeeping (or anything else for that matter), anxiousness and impatience will burn you in the end.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

ok thanks, I really appreciate all the advice


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

No problem...


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## dondosae1 (Nov 30, 2009)

Thanks to whoever started this thread. Lots of good info...


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

STILL GOT THESE F**&%IN BUGS!

Is'nt there something I can kill them all with?


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

:-? Bugs?


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

the same **** bugs i've had ...I thought i was close to getting rig of them. today I open up the cover to feed the fish and a but load of gnats attacked me>>> 

I need to KILL THEM :x


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## janetbrand28 (Feb 14, 2010)

well this is helpful.. thanks


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

Sorry.. You're having problems with "gnats"?

I don't think you mentioned that before. Maybe in another thread?? :-?

Though I've never had these pests before, I've heard about this kind outbreak. These "gnats" may be either springtails or some other form of aquatic moths. It's usually a result of excess waste in the tank, which we addressed earlier. These can be real hard to get rid of once they get established.

The key is to do a "MAJOR" cleaning. I mean MAJOR (take out all decor and do a SUPER vacuum, or even better - take out substrate and rinse, drain tank and refill). I've also heard they hate intense lighting and with a few hundred watts of lighting, they will die off. However, I don't know how effective that is, since I haven't tried it myself.

You can ask around to see what others have done to get rid of these pests. Though, I think you'll find that the remedy would be to do a super clean, and keep on top of ANY build up of waste matter in the tank.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Your right, I do have this on another tread...but anyway, I've done that major overhaul recently that should have taken care of this, that is why I'm confused and pissed.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Question for you...What is your take on carbon? Do you use it?


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## Cichlidude (Feb 7, 2010)

tooch420 said:


> Question for you...What is your take on carbon? Do you use it?


Carbon is really only needed to remove odors or any medication in the water. Other may have something to add .


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Also, I was thinking of changing the setup of the intakes and outs...putting both intakes in the middle of the tank, and an outlet on either end. Do you think this would be a more effective setup?

and how far off the bottom should the intakes be?


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## cancichfan (Dec 23, 2009)

Could you post the pictures you sent to Cento? Or what you end up doing? I have the same question. Two canisters...where do I put the intake/outflow?


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## Cichlidude (Feb 7, 2010)

Well, I have a 75g tank, 48" in length. I have a C360 canister filter and an AC70. The canister input in on the left about 8" in about 2" above the substrate. The output is on the right about 8" on the right on the top of the water. The HOB AC 70 in in the middle with it's intake about 6" up from the substrate. Water circulation is clockwise starting from the right to the front of the tank across the front to the left to the rear and back.


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

tooch420 said:


> Also, I was thinking of changing the setup of the intakes and outs...putting both intakes in the middle of the tank, and an outlet on either end. Do you think this would be a more effective setup?
> 
> and how far off the bottom should the intakes be?


 As I mentioned before, there is no simple answer, or one that can be given over the internet. I'd have to physically be there to see whats happening (and I live very far from you..  ).

There are SOO many variables that can affect things (pressure of water out-takes, deflection cause by rocks and undulations in substrate, etc), that it would be impossible to say with accuracy where everything should be placed.

I'd do a dirt test... Take some food "waste" (the stuff at the bottom of your pellet container or flake container), and drop a few pinches of it into the aquarium. Make sure all lights are on, sit down, and watch it for a while. See where everything ends up. Even whatever ends up on the substrate floor will eventually drift; see where that ends up too.

This way you can make your own adjustments to achieve whatever goals you're hoping to accomplish with the nozzles (eliminate dead spots, or getting as much waste as possible into filters, or creating realistic water current, etc, etc).


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

tooch420 said:


> Question for you...What is your take on carbon? Do you use it?


 I don't know if you were intending this question to be posed to other members to get a broader view on carbon, or you missed what I posted earlier... but, at the risk of looking like a moron, I'll quote what I said before... 



Cento said:


> Also a word about carbon: not all agree, however many feel carbon is useless in the aquarium. It's rendered useless in nearly a month as it becomes over saturated. On top of that, some studies say that if pushed to service beyond its saturation point, it'll actually release some of the impurities back into the tank. Bottom line: IMO, don't use it...


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

cancichfan said:


> Could you post the pictures you sent to Cento? Or what you end up doing? I have the same question. Two canisters...where do I put the intake/outflow?


how do i post pictures?


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## cancichfan (Dec 23, 2009)

You have to put them on Photobucket or a similar site and then you can post the image link into your reply. Use preview to make sure it works and is there. Just learned this myself but it works. Makes it a lot easier to explain what you are talking about.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

ok, so after 1 month i've decided to add filter flooss to both filters. My 304 looks horrible, and the 305 is pretty nasty already too. This gunk that looks like fish poop or larvae is everywhere...what does it look like to you guys.

Also posted pictures of the new setup for cancichfan. :thumb:

http://s1012.photobucket.com/albums/af242/tooch420/


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

I"m glad you finally decided to add the floss... :thumb:

"Coarse-bio-fine" or "coarse-fine-bio" has been the basic type and order of filter of media for decades for a reason... 

You'll find it easier to keep clean, and you'll find it'll keep your water cleaner too.

And those pics nearly made me lose my dinner...  You definitely had some infestation going on in your filter, almost certainly caused by the excessive waste in your system. Now that you have less substrate in there, and have two properly setup canisters you'll see better results...


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## cancichfan (Dec 23, 2009)

If you copy the IMG code, you can put the whole picture right in the string although the address works fine. Nice tank.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

So you think it's just waste and not larvae?

I do plan on taking out the substrate and replacing it with new Cichlid Ivory Coast sand....but its such a big task i have'nt got to it yet, I hust really wanted to get the floss in there right away.


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

tooch420 said:


> So you think it's just waste and not larvae?


 No, its both... One contributes to the proliferation of the other. 

The waste (over-feeding, over-stocking, etc), the excess substrate, the previous lack of sufficient filtration, the lack of proper media; all of this made a beautiful picturesque home for the larvae to breed in... 

Once you get the fresh substrate in there, and now have everything in place, this should take care of the problem.

Just make sure you're substrate layer isn't as think this time, watch the feeding amount, and stay on top of waste... :thumb:


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

I just overhauled the tank and removed all the substrate and did a 60% water change. I did'nt clean the filters. It's been a few hours now and all the fish dont look good. They are upside down ghasping for air and swimming into the walls. What is wrong?


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

Ok, they look a little better but that was weird? Is it ok to leave the tank with no substrate?


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## Cich of it all (Mar 29, 2007)

Sounds like a lack of aeration. Are the filter outlets agitating the surface of the water? If not adjust them so they do or add a powerhead. 
In the mean time stick your [clean[ hand in the water and splash it around.


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## Cich of it all (Mar 29, 2007)

tooch420 said:


> Ok, they look a little better but that was weird? Is it ok to leave the tank with no substrate?


Substrate is mainly for appearance. Some cichlids like to dig in the sand, but it's not going to affect their health not having it in there.
What happened is not normal. I'm guessing that while you were messing around in the tank with the filter off the oxygen level fell below the acceptable level. Either that or if you pulled your heater(s) out, the temp dropped very low.


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## tooch420 (Jan 8, 2005)

I think it was a little of both; I dropped the water level so both heads were splashing in adding O2, and the heater was off, I replaced the water from the hose so it was cold...this morning I checked and they seem better. Thanks for the reply :thumb:


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