# 115 gallon tank needs help



## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

I upgraded to a 115 gallon tank in July. I am now on my third or fourth issue with it.
I was wondering if I could get some help... and know that I've had some missteps along the way.
I bought my aquarium and set up used. The water and fish all looked 
healthy and the guy is very reputable so I don't think that there were issues
before I got it. I have African cichlids with a lot of store bought decor and slate (making a lot of hiding places). I washed the substrate clean. I do 25% - 45% water changes weekly. I have a magnum 350 filter which I clean out every three days. I just bought carbon for it, but haven't used it yet.

Anyway, I have had cloudy water since July. I buy water clarifyer which helps temporarily until the water change. If I don't use it my water is cloudy within a day. I also have black algea growing. I have artificial plants that need to be cleaned of algea each time. Very time consuming. After a thorough cleaning of all decor I took out my bio wheels and have just purchased new ones. The growth is slower, but still there. I also have a few fish with black spots now. I've read that it can either be normal stress spots or black spots, but have no idea how to distinguish between them. Any help would be appreciated. I had no issues with my smaller aquarium which I had for a couple years so these problems are all new. Thanks in advance.


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## karydas (Mar 21, 2005)

Donnajeanne said:


> I washed the substrate clean. I do 25% - 45% water changes weekly. I have a magnum 350 filter which I clean out every three days.


Hi Donnajeanne, when you say "clean out" how do you mean it?


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

I empty and rinse out the container, parts and filter sleeve.


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## karydas (Mar 21, 2005)

I am not familiar with this type of filters, but aren't you killing the beneficial bacteria by cleaning the filter every three days? Do you have any recent ammonia measurements?


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

I may be. I don't know what to try to fix first. Cloudy water, black algea or black spots on fish. Two fish have bad cases, but they look like they may be different things. I don't know if the issues are related either.

Here are pics

http://m1200.photobucket.com/albums/Donnajeanne1


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

If you are cleaning filter components in tank water than the bacteria won't be an issue. Replacing the bio wheels might be.To reduce algae, reduce the amount of light to only a few hours a day (say, in the evening when you are home and viewing the tank). Is the Magnum the only filter on the tank? If so, I would suspect it is insufficient for that size tank and fish load. Stop using the clarifier, and put that money towards more filtration. 
How do you clean the artificial plants? If you scrub them off the algae will come back. Try dipping them in a bleach solution to kill whatever algae may be on them. Try not feeding the tank for a couple of days to see if the cloudiness still returns.


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm assuming you are rinsing out canister filter every 3 days in the sink with running water? You're probably killing all your beneficial bacteria. The cloudy water is probably ammonia build up and bacteria bloom. Until your tank establishing enough bacteria, the cloudy water will probably come back.

My suggestion, if you need to rinse your canister media, fill a bucket up with tank water and rinse it off in there. Also are you using any water conditioner when you do water changes? If not, pick one up, the chlorine and\or chloramine used in the water will kill your beneficial bacteria too. Also I would suggest you pick up Tetra Safestart. Its basically bacteria in a bottle and it works pretty well, it will help your tank establish the bacteria within a few days in stead of 5-6 weeks it normally takes.

Once you do all these things, I would say your cloudy water will start to clear in a week. I wouldn't worry about the algae until after the cloudy water goes away.


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

Thanks for your advice. Yes, I was using tap water. I'll stop the water clarifier and have purchased a second filter to see if that helps. I use prime and aquarium salt each time I do water changes. Nothing else. I'll try rinsing the canister in tank water instead of tap water. At this point I'm hesitant to try other chemicals. I did have something I used for new aquarium setups, but my dog literally ate the bottle so that stopped. Once my other filter comes I'm going to leave the aquarium alone for awhile to see what happens. Many thanks to all.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

If you don't have one already, get yourself a liquid test kit for freshwater, API makes a decent one.


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## karydas (Mar 21, 2005)

My advice would be to clean your filters only when you see that the flow is reduced significantly. Only the filter wool needs replacement every week and the active carbon when is not active any more. What I do in my filters, is divide my bio media in separate filter bags. So when I want to clean my filters, I clean with tank water only a part of my bio media every time.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

GTZ said:


> If you don't have one already, get yourself a liquid test kit for freshwater, API makes a decent one.


Agree this is step one, because with it you will be able to diagnose for sure any problems without guessing.

The algae and spots on your fish are not life-threatening so set them aside until you get other issues resolved.

The cloudy water can indicate a problem, and your test results for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate may confirm. Once you have those tests you should know how to fix the problem.

Never use tap water to clean fish tank items, including filters and media because the chlorine kills your beneficial bacteria. Slosh filter items in tank water (no scrubbing) to get big clumps of debris off.

Water changes should be 50% weekly or more. But let's see what your test results are.


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

Had the water tested today. All within normal limits. Ph a bit low but given the water change it wasn't too low (around 7). That was the only thing that was off. Thanks again


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What were the actual results? Did you get a test kit so you can check every day?


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

I had it checked at the petstore. I've just purchased a new filter and replacement sleeves so purchasing a test kit right now is a bit much. Maybe in a couple weeks. All results were fine though, even ammonia which the petstore tested separately for me.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Donnajeanne said:


> I had it checked at the petstore. I've just purchased a new filter and replacement sleeves so purchasing a test kit right now is a bit much. Maybe in a couple weeks. All results were fine though, even ammonia which the petstore tested separately for me.


This is a waste of time. Let me give you an example.

I had a high amonia reading in my tank. I was changing some water and the like and when I got back to clean up the test tubes the ammonia was normal. I wondered what caused this.. So I did a test, I took a sample of water and left it sit without adding any test solution for a while say about 10 minutes.

Tested it and it was showing no amonia or nitrite but the nitrates were higher then whats in the tank. But the test from the tank was showing ammmonia still a little high and nitrates lower.

What happened Was when taking the water sample you also take some bactiria with it. Which while sitting in the tube is converting amonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. So it is common with water left sitting from a aquarium to find it packed full on nitrates but nothing much else. Nitrate being fairly safe the pet shop would say everything looks fine. The only thing that wouldn;t change with time is PH .. which is why its the only thing they are picking up as wrong.

*So DO NOT trust a trip to the pet store for testing your water Water is changing all the time and in the time you take it to the fish shop all will be fine.*

Buy a number of Test Kits to test each of the following:

Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
KH
PH and High range PH

You can do without Nitrate if you are hard up for cash, but the rest are a MUST.

Your tank levels are wrong, I would bet my left nut on it.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

One note on the Problems your having.

Black spots on your fish coupled with the fact you have little means to test your water point to one thing.

Ammonia Spike. Ammonia Spikes will cause these black spots (ammonia burn). You will prob notice the fish rubbing up against objects violently also.

LFS that sell a top notch filter over testing equipment really peeve me off. You would have been better getting 2 or 3 simple sponge air opperated filters for a few bucks and buy a test kit then blow everything on a fancy filter. Not your fault you didn't know, but they should have.

You need to look up cycling a fish tank with fish in it.. because that is what you will be doing now. You have washed you substrate and added new rocks and washed your filter. So basically you have cleaned all good bactiria from your tank.

The bactiria that changes deadly ammonia to deadly nitrite then in to a less deadly nitrate is on everything in your aquarium (rocks,filter media,substrate) If you take a rock out you will find you will get a small ammonia spike, if you clean your filter with clorinated water, again you will get a more massive ammonia spike. (declorination also produces ammonia)

Your water clarity problems are common with a tank that is not cycled and has ammonia/nitrite problems. Point to remember, water looking dirty normally means bad levels in the tank.

If you want my advice you need to :

1) get the test kits i mentioned and 
2) a bottle of prime (prime will declorinate, but will also make ammonia safer)
3) Do not clean your filter no more (I clean mine maybe once a month and even then I just clean the fine filters and leave the media alone)
4) if you have charcol in your filter - take it out - charcol IMO should not be used by new tank owners, it will start leeching bad bad stuff if left in the tank too long. You need to understand charcol before using it.
5) do a 50% water change using prime preferablly right now and then 25% each day until you can afford those test kits and know what your water is doing.


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

Thanks. I'll make sure I get those when I get a kit. FYI - I don't know if it matters, but the container I take to the petshop is fairly large (about 4 cups).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They only need a tiny bit. But if they won't give you the test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate what good is that? And if you don't want to go every day, then what?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Donnajeanne said:


> FYI - I don't know if it matters, but the container I take to the petshop is fairly large (about 4 cups).


Thing is, I know 99% that you have had or are currently having ammonia spikes (the black spots).

So whatever your doing to test (i.e. the pet shop) is not working.

Maybe try ask the LFS if you can have a test kit and fix him up when you have enough cash. I know there expensive, but really can;t do without them.

Until then just do daily small water changes.

P.S. The black algae I do not think is a big problem right now.. you just need to be fixing other problems first. It could be any number of algae and really we would need to see a picture to be sure.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Get the freshwater master kit from API; they're only about 50 bucks and tests for KH GH pH ammonia nitrites and nitrates. They take longer to use than the test strips, but I'd rather have accuracy than speed, especially since a lot of test strips don't have ammonia, and that's the real deadly one.


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

Finally received test kit.
Ph 8.0-8.2
Ammonia 0.00-0.25
Nitrite 0.00
Nitrate 0.00
Kh 4 odkh 71.6
Gh 5 odkh 89.5


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

So not sure where that leaves the cloudy water, black spots and algea. I put in a new new second filter today (aquaclear 110) and replaced theimpeller/magnet for my first filter today too.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

So either your tank is just starting a cycle, or your doing that nitrate test wrong. Reread the instructions and follow them to the letter (including shaking the 2nd bottle for 30 seconds.

The black spots were from ammonia. Algae means there must have been or is currently nitrate in the tank. Cloudy water will clear up on its own when you get all the levels right.


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

Oh, I shook the tube, not the bottle. Retested. It's the shade of 10, but a much much more vibrant depth of orange (like the depth of 40, but the 40 is rose color not orange). The black spots are getting worse. How long does it take for them to disappear? Could it be black spot instead? It appears to be spreading...


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Well the black spots are a common thing to happen when you have ammonia in the tank. Can you get pictures of the fish with the black spots ?
That ammonia tube should be yellow, if it has any shade at all you have problems.


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

http://m1200.photobucket.com/albums/Don ... 1?newest=1

Here's a link to the pics. I took a couple of the worse fish tonight and will try to update a couple others.

I retested the ammonia. It's still between 0.00 and 0.25.

Thanks


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Black spots are not from ammonia... sorry, really disagree. Heck, even I have had them on some of my malawi cichlids and I know what I did to cause them and ammonia wasn't involved.

Donna... test your tap water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for me if you can. I am guessing that you have ammonia in your tap water among other things... a google on Troutman North Carolina turns up that your tap water gets a score of 4.2 out of 10 for tap water quality! (pretty bad!)
If your tap water is loaded with organics and ammonia (chloramine) then every water change is fueling the cloudiness, causing pH swings, giving your fish those black spots, etc.

Just to put it into perspective for you, my tap water gets a 6.3 out of 10 (pretty good) and it has enough organics in it to fuel nuisance algae, but not enough to let it get out of control.

My advice would be to get a good filtration system to filter your tap water (for drinking as well as fish IMHO). Reverse Osmosis would be overkill, but the 3 pre-filters that those units come with would do wonders for your tap water and therefore your tank if you ran your tap through them.

I hope this helps!!!


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

They aren't black spots caused by ammonia burn or any other injury at any rate. Black spots I was talking about were scabs that come with ammonia burn or more comonly in cichlid around the mouth and sides from digging injuries.

What filter you got running on that tank ?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I think the black spots in the picture you posted is a bacteria or parasite.


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

Thanks. I'll check tap water in a.m.. I did have a 29 gallon tank here for over a year with no issues. Now it seems that I can't escape them with this new tank and fish. I have a Marineland Magnum 350 and just added an Aquaclear 110 today. My flameback is looking ill now. Very thin. Ugh.


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

Oh yeah, and I called the town about water results last year and was assured the poor results were due to the locations they tested and not true readings. Lol. We have filters for drinking water !


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

The Marineland Magnum 350 was some of your problem for sure. Undersized for the tank you have, it does a 90G better althou it does say 100 G, but your tank is even bigger again then that.

You should have no problems now that you have added the Aquaclear 110 to the setup. But note, even this one is right on the border for your tank, I wouldn't run it on its own, keep the 2 filters running together.

What is the media setup in each filter? Just sponges and bio media? Or do you have anything special in there like carbon or purigen or the like? And what Bio media are you using?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Donnajeanne said:


> Oh yeah, and I called the town about water results last year and was assured the poor results were due to the locations they tested and not true readings. Lol. We have filters for drinking water !


 i am a cynic... Assume the worst, plan for the best. 
:lol:

Use those same filters to filter your tap water for use in your fish tanks. I predict some improvements over time... If you also follow some of the other advice from this thread like not cleaning filters as frequently, not using tap water to clean, etc. Then the cloudiness will resolve itself within a couple of weeks. The black marks on your cichlids will diminish over time but will take a while to vanish from them all.


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

Checked tap water. 
Ammonia 0.00-0.25 not good
Nitrate and nitrite 0.00

In the magnum filter I use diamond blend ammonia neutralizing carbon and mix it with black diamond premium activated carbon. There are two biowheels and a filter sleeve. The aquaclear is 500 gph and uses a foam insert, carbon, and bio max ceramic rings.

Water still cloudy today even with new filter added and new impeller/magnet for magnum.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Carbon can actually fuel cloudiness. I would remove from tank if i were in your shoes. In my opinion, carbon can be used to prefilter tap water and be used in aquariums for ten days or under.

The cloudiness wont get better quickly... It will take time.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I agree, remove the carbon, but do it slowly.

Maybe remove the carbon from one filter replacing with bio media, doesn't have to be anything expensive, even 5mm pebbles make good media. Then give it some time and do the same with the other filter.

How long has the carbon been in your filter? And I mean even with cleaning... how long in total.


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

I started it three weeks ago and changed it again yesterday.


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## Donnajeanne (Aug 20, 2011)

I was wondering if my slate could be causing the black spots. Although it was used for a couple years in the old aquarium, it has gold speckles in it. I read that this may hurt the fish. Would this cause black spot? Many thanks as always!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't think so. Look for other culprits.


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