# Yellow Lab Aggression



## Opfor21 (Aug 25, 2016)

New to the group, and new to the African cichlid world. 
I will freely admit that I did not do the research required when stepping into this world, and as such, have obviously made some very rookie mistakes.
The first mistake may have been adding Mbuna into a large but well established adult Parrot Fish tank. However, the parrots appear to have a pecking order amongst themselves and don't seem to care about the other fish except at feeding time (then they get pushy, but not overly aggressive)
Second mistake may have been listening to the LFS "expert" who strongly recommended only starting with two yellow labs, and the 2 cobalt blues initially "to see how things worked out". Following the introduction of these fish into the aquarium, there were very few problems, to say nothing that remotely concerned me. These fish were in fact so peaceful, that I began to doubt ALL THE EXPERTS ADVISE on these fish.
After this I learned that I needed to increase the M:F ratio, however the LFS had sold out of them all by this time. Fast forward 2 months and a resupply: I added four yellow labs which were reported as being probable females. Also added was a single demasoni, because the guy told me that he could not differentiate the sex and with only a few to choose from, I elected for just the one. I know I should have added more fish, but the selection was and will remain limited for the foreseeable future given our current location. 
Following the introduction of these new fish, which occurred after a regular feeding, all **** seemed to break loose. The original yellow lab which appears to be a male from all the descriptions, right away targeted one of the new labs which has red eyes and is not as yellow as the rest. The pursuit although not relentless, is disturbing. The submissive fish has taken to hiding behind a spray bar despite the tank having more than 20 hiding spots of various sizes in two main locations (Rule of 1/3rd hardscaping advise). However, the aggressive fish chases the new comer out of all places it attempts to retreat to. It appears to be a single focus, although he will on occasion get into an accelerated circle chase with a few others, he loses interest in them very quickly. The two cobalt blues continue to do their thing, and the demasoni spends most of his time either in the rock work, or swimming with the two blues.
I understand that these are aggressive fish, and I have not helped this situation secondary to poor planning and knowledge deficits; but how would you advise to intervene? Do I remove the male lab and leave only the "reported" females? Is it possible that this new comer is actually a male, but given the pigmentation variance appears female? 
If I were in a location with a steady supply of fish to our LFS I would just start over from scratch and add all new younger fish at one time; but I am here now with this mess, so need to figure out a way to help correct my mistakes.
Water maintained at 27c, pH 8.2, other parameters within reported acceptable levels.
The substrate is a 60/40 sand/crushed coral combination, hardscape is imported lava rock and bog wood (the only things available).
Unsure of what else I should include, but any advise is appreciated.
Cheers,
Shane

620 Ltr tank
2 Enheim Pro 3 1200XL Filters
Generic LED lighting system supplement with moon lights 2 hrs before and 2hrs after main light activation.
3 Blood Parrots, the smallest approx 20cm, the largest approx 24cm.
6 Yellow Labs, all about 9cm (1 of which red eyes and slightly lighter yellow colouration, but appears the same as the others)
2 Cobalt Blues- 9cm
1 Demasoni- 6cm (reported as being a male)


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

What are the dimensions of the tank?

Normally the mbuna would pick on the parrots but since your parrots are so large, that is probably why they are working ok. You know what you are getting into with the stocking list so I won't say anything there. The red eyes means its albino and I have not really seen any albino yellow labs so I would be a bit unsure of its lineage. What you will find is the fish in an mbuna tank that are bullied will always go to the filter intake. I think they do that because mbuna really only like to be on the bottom of the tank so the bullied fish finds that they can hang out at the top of the water column and not be bullied because the aggressor doesn't go up there as much. The bottom line is you should do something anytime you have a fish behind the filter because they will likely either be bullied to death by the aggressive fish or catch a disease from being weakened by the stress of the experience and possibly spread that disease to your whole tank (I have had both of these happen before, the latter is incredibly frustrating). It is very likely that your LFS did not identify male/female correctly and unless you physically saw them check the vent of the fish I would not trust them at all as that is the only meaningful way to sex yellow labs. So the albino could be a male fish and thus being bullied by the dominant male. The choice is yours on what to do. Some people say you remove the aggressive fish because by doing that you are keeping the less aggressive fish and improving the tranquility of your tank on the whole (although some other fish will step up to be tank boss and you may not like them either). Some people say remove the one that is at the top of the tank because he is more likely to catch a disease and is also WAY easier to catch and remove. You should remove one of them though.


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## Opfor21 (Aug 25, 2016)

Aaron,
No venting was performed by the LFS staff, nor talk of doing so. The only time it was mentioned that sexing was difficult was with the Demasoni, and the sex descriptions of the other fish seemed to follow the on-line information. So in truth, I didn't challenge them as I maybe should have. 
As for the tank dimensions they are 200x 66x 46cm so 80x 26x 18".
I have removed the bullied fish, and let you know how it turns out. For now I will continue to read up on everything, so that I am better prepared to make informed decisions.
Thanks for taking the time to respond, it is truly appreciated.
Cheers


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## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

Could you possibly post a few pics of the African cichlids? This would help us identify exactly what you have and what can be done to help with aggression. Some species no matter what are going to be too aggressive or too timid to coexist.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

First thoughts.... you just don't have enough mbuna in the tank to adequately spread aggression around. If the tank is 80", that is 6.5 feet. I would usually recommend at least 25-30 mbuna in a tank that size, to spread the aggression around. When you don't have enough, they tend to pick on a couple of fish, to the detriment of their health.

I also agree about posting some pictures up here, as I suspect you have some Lab hybrids, which can be more aggressive than pure Labs.


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## Opfor21 (Aug 25, 2016)

Will post pics, just trying to work out the best way to attach them. 
Cheers.


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## Opfor21 (Aug 25, 2016)

Sorry for the delay in getting these posted,and I appreciate any help in identifying these fish. 
On a few of the pics I have noted that some of the fish appear to be more orange than yellow, but otherwise appear very similar. The question I have is with one which is very orange compared to the others, and also has what appears to be a a skin fold under the jaw. It appears to be on par with the others with no red flags or concerns on temperament; and on that note, everything seems to have settled down in the tank. Apart from the occasional chase out of a hiding spot, there have been no signs of targeted aggression.
Cheers,

http://s1320.photobucket.com/user/shane ... ium%20Fish


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