# 55g African tank where to start?



## Warhawk77 (Jan 8, 2014)

I have never keep a African cichlid so my experience is pretty limited, which brings me to here to ask questions.

I picked up a few 55g tanks at the petco sale and I have been thinking now is a good time to setup a African cichlid tank. The tank will be filtered buy a canister filter rated at 75g(don't recall the name) and sponge filters.

As far as the fish I'm thinking Kennyi or Peacocks something with color. From what I know about them I need to stock the tank pretty heavy so I'm thinking 8-10 fish does that sound right?

So is that enough of a plan to get me started?


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

I'd get a backup filter maybe a hob, plus a bubbler.

First put in your decor, lots of rocks. Then put in some dither fish like rainbows, black skirt tetras, giant danios. Add them in slowly to break in the tank. At this stage you have time to plan things and see what you like.

If you want plants now is the time as well. Java ferns and java swords usually do ok. Seems like they are OK with a few others like red valisnera from what I read online but haven't tried. Things you anchor or that float (aside from anacharis) are generally more likely to survive.

If you have a big enough tank and enough stock you can mix almost any mbunas together and tolerate very aggressive ones OK. Easier ones to deal with are yellow labs, rusties and aceis. These guys can mix in with most anything and don't cause many problems.

Similar colored ones love to crossbreed. Some will crossbreed no matter what.

About 20 total fish is a good level to shoot for, including some dithers.

From there either get them all at once or add in the weakest or most pacific ones first.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

New tanks are always fun to set up and I always recommend using the fish less cycling method once you have the water, filter and heater set up in the tank. If you decide to choose Mbuna cichlids, rocks to form crevices and cave like openings can be added at the same time, lots of rocks are a good choice. If choosing Peacocks, less rock is needed. Have you decided to use sand or gravel for a substrate?

There are some suggestions for suitable tank mates in the Library section in 55G Cookie Cutter setups that may be helpful to you in choosing species. What fish besides the 2 you posted might be interesting to you? Are you looking only for a colorful tank or are you interested in seeing breeding behavior?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd avoid aggressive mbuna like kenyi in a 55G. Agree with recommendations of rusties and labs. I'd shoot for 15 fish with 1m:4f of each of three species. But depending on the species you choose, the recommendations could vary.


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## Warhawk77 (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback.

I have done some more reading I think I want to do demanoni and yellow lab. Just need to find a source for them maybe locally. Guessing those two could crossbreed but anything from this tank won't leave my house, could move a group of each over to another tank and allow breeding there if I wanted to but not sure yet.

On the cycle I'm going to seed the filter in my other tanks and move them over once I get this one setup. I a nice HOB filter that would work also but trying to move away from those.

As for plants I might put some java fern in but not sure I like the look of just rocks. But if I do a HOB I will put some plants in that to help pull nitrates out of the water.

Substrate will be pool filter sand, really like how this looks and my other American cichilds really enjoy moving it around.

I did a quick search on the rusty those look nice will have to look into those a little more.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

I have never kept Demasoni, but heard they can be very difficult. Males need many females (7+ for each). 
Yellow Labs are mellow and can just about be kept with any others.

IMO, plants in an Mbuna tank does not look right, maybe in a peacock/Hap tank.

PFS is fine, and you will only need enough to cover the bottom---maybe about an inch or so.


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## Warhawk77 (Jan 8, 2014)

There are so many choices. I'm going this weekend to see what the local owned pet store carries or can get. That will plan a role in what I get too.

Looking at some of the online fish stores they are feeding their fish gold or something. Some of the prices are insane I would rather get small fish, allow it to grow and enjoy it for 5-7 years than pay 10-20 times that price for a fish that is 2-3 years old.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Warhawk77 said:


> There are so many choices. I'm going this weekend to see what the local owned pet store carries or can get. That will plan a role in what I get too.
> Looking at some of the online fish stores they are feeding their fish gold or something. Some of the prices are insane I would rather get small fish, allow it to grow and enjoy it for 5-7 years than pay 10-20 times that price for a fish that is 2-3 years old.


1) Usually the LFS will only carry a mixture of hybrids, so if you are planning on saving some fry--I would not buy from them, unless they can promise you "Pure bred" fish--and even then this is not guaranteed. 
2) Getting juvies and letting them grow is the "Way To Go".


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## Warhawk77 (Jan 8, 2014)

Good point I didn't think about the store having hybrids.

To me one of my favorite things about the hobby is growing out the fish.


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

You should be able to get yellow labs and demasoni from any of the fish stores with cichlids, but as tanker said they may be of dubious quality. If you plan on breeding the fish then this is a problem and I wouldn't recommend it. If you plan on just having the fish tank and letting the cichlids take care of the fry then these fish are just fine for your tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you enjoy a challenge, Demasoni are fabulous! Many conclude they are not worth the work so decide up front. Definitely have an extra tank and rehoming plan and maybe even Metronidazole on hand.

For a 55G plan to end up with 12 demasoni after rehoming males and 5 yellow labs. To get enough females, plan on buying 18 unsexed juvenile demasoni.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Have you seriously bought 18 demasoni and then gave the males back before? lol

I've kept them before in a multispecies tank and had no problems at all, a couple males with a couple females and zero casualties.

A single species tank is always harder to set up to get enough numbers but I would never buy a ton of fish like that only to throw half of them out.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Well if you get them from an independent store you don't want to get fry for sure. But petco and petsmart have yellow labs all the time and they are true. You can also get a grownup that looks good for in a LFS and then you know its quality from the start. But that depends on availability.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

When you buy juveniles and sell adults you actually make money. Yes I sell males all the time.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

That's not really keeping a pet though, it's fish farming. You don't need to keep a bunch of females for each male, that is a very boring tank setup if you are keeping a pet.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Interesting point of view and one I've not heard before.


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## Leyshpunctatus (Feb 19, 2016)

DJRansome said:


> Interesting point of view and one I've not heard before.


+1


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

+2.

Then you will have an all male tank? You either have many females or no females. "Only a few" females will not work, the male will chase and kill the few females.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

tanker3 said:


> "Only a few" females will not work, the male will chase and kill the few females.


According to people on the internet who've never tried anything else anyway. But then if you only keep one male in the tank of course you'll have problems.


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## PiccoloJr (Oct 14, 2013)

Fish Jerk said:


> That's not really keeping a pet though, it's fish farming. You don't need to keep a bunch of females for each male, that is a very boring tank setup if you are keeping a pet.


The concept behind keeping multiple females for each male is that the male (especially Dems) are relentless with the females when it tries to breed. You need alot of females so he isn't beating a paticular few up too much.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

PiccoloJr said:


> Fish Jerk said:
> 
> 
> > That's not really keeping a pet though, it's fish farming. You don't need to keep a bunch of females for each male, that is a very boring tank setup if you are keeping a pet.
> ...


I understand the idea but I don't think there is any value to it unless you have a species only tank and aim to breed. But in that case I would put a divider in the tank and keep them separated until you want them to breed. That way you only have to buy a couple fish to start breeding instead of 18 fish at 15 to 25 bucks a pop as is being suggested.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Different ways of keeping fish. Success is measured in years, not weeks or months. Some things work reliably, over and over. Sometimes particular circumstances, or just plain luck, odd things work out.
Packing a very large number of Malawi in a tank is one way to minimize aggression. Done excessively there is a cost. Many of the fish do not thrive nor grow to their potential. Difficult to keep good water quality even with large water changes.
IMO and IME, when keeping numerous of the same species, whether substrate spawner or mouth brooder, generally your better off with more females then males. Whether substrate spawner or mouth brooder, to have more females then males is generally a recipe for success. Now I don't always put too much emphasis or faith in sex ratios.....but I think in a general sense it's good advice. 
Many species of cichlids, males are not tolerant of each other, over the long term. some times the choice is only 1 male, or many. And even then with the many males, sometimes it does not work at all or some do not do well!


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

BC in SK said:


> Different ways of keeping fish. Success is measured in years, not weeks or months. Some things work reliably, over and over. Sometimes particular circumstances, or just plain luck, odd things work out.
> Packing a very large number of Malawi in a tank is one way to minimize aggression. Done excessively there is a cost. Many of the fish do not thrive nor grow to their potential. Difficult to keep good water quality even with large water changes.
> IMO and IME, when keeping numerous of the same species, whether substrate spawner or mouth brooder, generally your better off with more females then males. Whether substrate spawner or mouth brooder, to have more females then males is generally a recipe for success. Now I don't always put too much emphasis or faith in sex ratios.....but I think in a general sense it's good advice.
> Many species of cichlids, males are not tolerant of each other, over the long term. some times the choice is only 1 male, or many. And even then with the many males, sometimes it does not work at all or some do not do well!


Peacocks seem to basically ignore male fish that are not the right color. You can have a bunch of males swim around just fine. That won't ever work with mbunas, they are just too aggressive.

Before seeing some people here promoting it very vigorously never have I heard of someone keeping fish like that except in a species only tank.

There's a couple problems here.

1. Won't stop aggression between males of different species.
2. Many females can be pretty aggressive themselves.
3. With no males in the same species the one male has all day long to annoy females who are carrying.
4. Way too much breeding unless you are a fish wholesaler.
5. Many female colors are awful.
6. A plan that REQUIRES rehoming seems irresponsible to recommend.
7. In this case especially it requires a huge expense that's completely unnecessary.

So I can't agree with this, I'll just come out and say I think it's dead wrong. It's applying something in an incorrect way. The more males you have the more aggression is spread around, then there is zero bullying of females. So if you do want fry in a community tank you just need one female and that's it. Believe me I have had plenty, I used to take 50-100 juvies in to the local fish stores every month or so. I am pretty sure it's not luck after years and years as well...

But anyway, there is no point to argue extensively on it. My mind is made up and probably the people who disagree have their minds made up as well. But especially in this case where demasoni are expensive and someone suggests to buy 18 of them, I had to come out and give an alternative view.


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