# gluing sand to bottom glass



## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

I've been planning my Mbuna build for months now. It will be a 75 gallon tank, 30 gallon sump, universal rocks. Probably with Pseudotropheus saulosi and ??? (but that's for another section.) I was at a friend's house and admiring his Mbuna and I noticed that in one section one male had dug a deep pit right down to the glass. I loved the behavior but hated seeing the glass at the bottom of the pit.

I'd like to glue some substrate to the glass. I was planning on using aquarium safe silicon until I thought about it, this will be a massive unpleasant and slightly expensive job (I've blown the budget on the rocks you see..)

Are there any alternatives to silicon here? Think ease of spreading and budget.

Thanks!


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Set it up like the gravel in an undergravel filter that has diggers. Put down 1/2" sand, cover with 100% manmade fiber cloth (preferrably the color of your sand), cover the cloth with the rest of your sand.

The digging stops at the cloth.

Joe


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## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

joescaper1 said:


> Set it up like the gravel in an undergravel filter that has diggers. Put down 1/2" sand, cover with 100% manmade fiber cloth (preferrably the color of your sand), cover the cloth with the rest of your sand.
> 
> The digging stops at the cloth.
> 
> Joe


Oh, that's interesting! Seeing the cloth will be much better than seeing the glass. And a flat sheet of glued sand will look no more natural than a flat sheet of cloth, which will actually be bumpy.


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

You may try painting the bottom glass a sand-like color from the outside. Many fry tanks are actually done this way to replicate substrate without dealing with the mess.

If you paint the right color, it should do just what you want.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

You could also get tiles in a colour you like and use those under the sand.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

I was just going to say the same thing. Maybe lie some pieces of slate on the bottom instead of tile.


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## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

skurj said:


> You could also get tiles in a colour you like and use those under the sand.


 But then I'd see the seams!

I'm thinking of putting a layer of smallish (1") beach rocks under the sand. I have about 4 gallons of them, that might be enough. Or I could mix sand in with some acrylic paint, or PlastiDip, those both sound good, at least from reading forums on the Internet! :- )


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## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

jcabage said:


> You may try painting the bottom glass a sand-like color from the outside. Many fry tanks are actually done this way to replicate substrate without dealing with the mess.
> 
> If you paint the right color, it should do just what you want.


I'd still see the smooth glass on the top, that's what I'm objecting to. Nice coarse sand then smoooooooth....


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

NotThePainter said:


> skurj said:
> 
> 
> > You could also get tiles in a colour you like and use those under the sand.
> ...


The seams would be full of your sand, and if the tiles are a close colour match to your sand...


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

another option .. some of the thinnest background are flexible and easily cut. You could silicone it to the bottom of the glass (needs to be silicones so nothing gets under it)


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

the cheapest option inmo is to stick your hand in move the sand back, sit back and watch them play again..so great to watch them do their thing. isn't the purpose in the end to enjoy our fish :wink:


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

yup, I take pleasure in digging up the shells my ocellatus male has buried, keeps him busy.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

skurj said:


> yup, I take pleasure in digging up the shells my ocellatus male has buried, keeps him busy.


hi five on that. thats what i mean, enjoy their natural behavior :thumb:


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## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

ozman said:


> the cheapest option inmo is to stick your hand in move the sand back, sit back and watch them play again..so great to watch them do their thing. isn't the purpose in the end to enjoy our fish :wink:


That's just awesome!!!


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## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

I'm leaning towards siliconing lots of beach rocks to the bottom. This should break up the unnaturalness of a clear bottom but not be too much work.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

NotThePainter said:


> I'm leaning towards siliconing lots of beach rocks to the bottom. This should break up the unnaturalness of a clear bottom but not be too much work.


You will need to remove sand and vacuum around them at some point. other wise you risk stuff building up under there causing other issues. I've had fish dig almost to the glass maybe a couple of times in the 3 years I've been keeping fish, but I fixed that quite easily. Your sand needs a stir every once in awhile anyways.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

NotThePainter said:


> I'm leaning towards siliconing lots of beach rocks to the bottom. This should break up the unnaturalness of a clear bottom but not be too much work.


it's your call, but i would not silicon rocks to the bottom. my reasons for this are:

you probably won't silicone enough of a free form rock to stop fish poop from getting underneath...hence posioness build-up.

most of us like to change the tank look from time to time, and i think you will too at some point. :wink: it keeps things interesting for us and the fish.

these cichlids that will sift/dig may be injured by the sand that you have siliconed to the bottom.......please reconsider inmo :thumb:


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## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

skurj said:


> NotThePainter said:
> 
> 
> > I'm leaning towards siliconing lots of beach rocks to the bottom. This should break up the unnaturalness of a clear bottom but not be too much work.
> ...


Oh, I expect these rocks to be completely buried at most times, buried with the substrate. Their only purpose is to hide the glass from my eyes, glass that will only be seen when the fish dig pits exposing it.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

hence, move, rearange, i think your hellbent on the glass bottom showing and have not really listened to reason!
have you considered other fish? other wise you will have to battle with this forever. jeez it's their nature, enjoy these great guys for what they are!

also don't have your substate to thick. 1.5 inches will suffice, just in case you think having it thicker will help. it will cause more problems than your trying to solve...as in gas build-up if the sand is not weekly stirred by hand.

all the best ozman


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## spotmonster (Nov 23, 2006)

I wouldn't silicone anything either. painting the underneath with "Krylon Stone" spray paint does an awesome job and it looks like sand. Just find a color to match your sand , spend 6.00 and your problem is solved.


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## timbo6684 (Aug 29, 2010)

Sorry if this has already been suggested but krylon fusion has a sand colored spray paint. Paint the underside of your tank, looks great even if you leave the tank bare bottomed.


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## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

ozman said:


> also don't have your substate to thick. 1.5 inches will suffice, just in case you think having it thicker will help. it will cause more problems than your trying to solve...as in gas build-up if the sand is not weekly stirred by hand.


Thanks, 1.5" is what I'm planning on. It is so weird coming from a planted tank background to Mbuna. I have one tank that has been up and running for 10 years. Gravel has never been cleaned. The Malaysian Trumpets churn the top layer of gravel, fish waste gets submerged, and the plants just love it! Obviously this won't work in a Mbuna tank. Different way of thinking, different way of care taking.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

yep its a different world. have you checked out all the info on this site...re library and spieces profiles to get more understanding of cichlids?

i wish you well with your transition


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## NotThePainter (Oct 28, 2013)

ozman said:


> yep its a different world. have you checked out all the info on this site...re library and spieces profiles to get more understanding of cichlids?
> 
> i wish you well with your transition


Oh yeah, been reading for months now... and it isn't a transition, but just an addition. The planted tanks stay. :- )


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

NotThePainter said:


> Thanks, 1.5" is what I'm planning on. It is so weird coming from a planted tank background to Mbuna. I have one tank that has been up and running for 10 years. Gravel has never been cleaned. The Malaysian Trumpets churn the top layer of gravel, fish waste gets submerged, and the plants just love it! Obviously this won't work in a Mbuna tank. Different way of thinking, different way of care taking.


Lots of MTS in my tang community tank (yeah I overfeed..), I never have to siphon poop, but I do have to stir the sand every few months at least the stuff at the front glass.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

I agree with not attaching sand to the bottom of the tank and painting the underside. Also, if they dig to bare glass just push the sand back, it takes a few seconds.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Personally, I would never permanently attach anything to the bottom. If you put larger stones on the bottom and cover with sand, the sand will work it's way to the bottom. If it really bugs you paint the outside of the bottom. Gluing stuff to the bottom is an invitation to grief down the road.


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