# Question about cycling my tank with fish..



## SEAN420 (Nov 24, 2011)

Okay, i originally had my tank 50/55 gal. on one wall. Had to move it to another wall. So i took my original JD back to the pet-store in hope of him finding a bigger home. Well before i moved the tank i got fish happy and bought four fish. A Convict cichlid, Firemouth, Green Terror, and Texas. Well i needed to move it so i put the fish in 5 gallon buckets..

Now here's the part though. I hadn't really kept up on my tank b4 i moved it. Now i'll be dedicated to it. But the water was bad. And i stirred it up a bit cause all the fish were hiding and i needed to pull the structures. Basically i had to keep around 35gals of the bad water. Setup the tank with the new gravel the water etc. I let it run for around 8-10 hours while the filters cleared up the water. Basically at the fish store i go to i've been told my tank is cycling. This weekend sunday will be 3 weeks exactly. Now since the water was pretty bad i understand my Nitrate ppm being so high. Roughly id say about 80 :| And my PH is fine, it's at 7.2 where i like it. My nitrite is always near 0.0.. but my ammonia is creeping from 0.0 to like 4.0...

Is this still part of the cycling.. or after sunday should i do a water swap.. pull maybe 20 gallons out? My fish's colors are very vibrant atm. Their diet is very strong as well. The water does not smell.. Im doing the tests properly.. Just dont want my fish to die  so any info would be helpful. I've also got some nitra-zorb in my philter to help lower the ammonia and nitrate.. I run two Cascade 200 filters. I plan on getting a bigger Canister type for the tank. After the holidays.. Ty cichlid community.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Your tank is still in the early stages of cycling. The fish could be in for a rough ride. Do frequent, large water changes, feed sparingly (once every few days), and try to get hold of some media from an established filter to add to your existing filter. 4ppm is a lot of ammonia. When nitrite spikes, things will get worse for them. Watch for erratic swimming and gasping at the surface as those are signs of ammonia/nitrite poisoning. My first choice would be to return the fish, and then fishless cycle but this can be managed if you stay attentive to it.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

The mods said everything u need to know about cycling, so I wont touch on that subject. However, looking at your signature, I must remind you that just abiut every fish on there gets over 6 inches, and some over 10. The 55 is nowhere near enough for them, so you should be prepared to rehouse quite a few of them. Also, stop feeding feeders and ghost shrimp. Unless you breed your own, they are needed, and will most likely do more harm than good. I dont know a single store that quarentines or medicates feeders, so whatev pathogens/parasites they carry will most likely transfer to your fish. Stick with the NLS and give bloodworms once or twice a week as a treat, and they should be fine. With your current water conditions you shouldnt be feeding live/frozen foods anyways.


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## SEAN420 (Nov 24, 2011)

Ty, so basically start doing some water changes then.. I cannot take the fish back as it's been to long since i've owned them and i don't want to take them back either. And my filters already have media in them. But i will cut back on the ghost shrimp for now. As for the feeders, they arent actually eating them really. They are from when i had my big jack dempsey in the tank. I also plan on getting a 220+ gallon tank.. so this is just for now till the new year comes around


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## SEAN420 (Nov 24, 2011)

I didn't want to be in this situation, its just that the water was bad and when i was told i could not put the fish into 50 gallons of new water.. i was told id have to use some of the water.. i guess ill just start pullin water here n there and see if that helps. Ty guys.. If i would of had another tank to put them in for a little i might of been able to cycle my tank. I'm not rich though.. But something about a fish tank just brings me peace. Even though I'm evoking a challenge with the fish i have lol..but i feel if done right all can be successful.. ill be checking the Ammonia level again tomorrow night after work and ill post it. If nothing, i'll go Sunday and get 20gals of R/O n swap it out...

side note- i was told to buy Nite-out nitrifying bacteria. to help with the ammonia. I also own some PRIME..


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## SEAN420 (Nov 24, 2011)

Could the feeder guppies be producing the most ammonia? i have 20 of em that carried over from the tank move. My fish havent gotten big enough to pick em off yet, although the Texas is trying. But they are a pain to catch.. And id almost rather not disrupt the tank that much.. Im sorry im posting so much. I guess i should do more research as well. If anyone has any helpful topics that they can link me to. Would be much appreciated. I don't have a lot of time to scan tons of posts.. only the first page or so.. so links would be appreciated. ty. :fish:

So important question, was reading in the cycling w/o fish.. and it said the ammonia can have long term effects on my fish. So if they are so vibrant looking.. That doesn't mean anything really? i think the water change n some nite-out will get the ammonia down. I will keep recharging my nitra-zorb bag as described to do. If anyone has any suggestions on stuff not to use in my tank plz tell me so i dont continue to use the wrong things.


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

Best thing you can do is large daily water changes. That's going to be difficult/expensive if you have to buy RO water. 
How hard is your tap water? You probably want to mix tap and RO, the RO by itself doesn't have any buffering minerals and can make the PH crash.


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## Cartem2 (Oct 4, 2011)

SEAN420 said:


> I'm not rich though.. ..but i feel if done right all can be successful....


NEVER listen to the guy at the Fish store, he will tell you whatever he has to to get you to buy his fish!

Listen to what the people here tell you they care only about your fish!

You don't need to be rich, just to have patience!! You say "if done right"? If you had done it right you would have waited to buy the fish till your tank was cycled and not have put your fish in danger. You should read This Article and ALL of its links! It has EVERYTHING you need to know about cycling your tank and once you read everything there then come back here and ask any question you have about the article.

Also as mentioned since you skipped the cycling of the tank you MUST do water changes almost everyday to keep the toxic levels down for your fish, because your tank does not have the bacteria in it it needs to break down the toxic levels and the chemicals your buying are not helping, only proper care of the water and time can grow the bacteria needed. Prime is the only thing you need and you MUST use that before every water change.

On a side note get rid of the 20 feeders you have in that tank! They are only adding a huge bio load that your tank cant handle!!

And NO the good color of your fish does not mean they are doing OK it! some fish color up when they are stressed and sometimes color doesn't mean jack! Its what the toxic water is doing on their insides that you can't see that you need to worry about with an uncycled tank.

Good luck and please read Tims article :thumb:


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Hey I work at a LFS!!! :x

And yes definitely ditch the feeders; they produce a huge amount of waste, which your fish dont need at all atm. And since they cant be eaten, they really have no practcal uses. I find that bacteria in a bottle do help slightly, but not nearly enough to make a significant difference. I'd just do daily 30-40% water changes, and use prime to detox the ammonia and nitrite. If at all possible, try and keep ammonia and nitrite levels under 0.50. Long term exposure to ammonia can cause permanent gill damage I believe, and maybe even stunt growth (not certain on this one). Also, if you can, try and lower the pH; ammonia is less toxic at lower pH, but only lower the pH if it stays down. Constant dips and spikes in pH will only stress your fish out further, and in the condition they are currently in, you want to avoid stressing your fish as much as possible.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Some thoughts.

The short term stress of catching out the feeders will do less harm than the long term affects of the added bioload and subsequent toxins.

Don't use RO water, tap is fine.

Don't look for a solution in a bottle. The only bottled bacteria product I'd recommend is Dr Tim's One and Only. Prime or Ammolock can be used to detox. Other than that, I'd hesitate to get into a mode of using additives.

The previous post referring to the toxicity of ammonia being affected by pH is important to keep in mind. Don't purposely try to raise pH for any reason at this point.

Again, I'd do large water changes, feed once every few days only, use Prime or Ammolock daily, and get the feeders out of there. Continue to monitor ammonia and nitrite.

Keep in mind that depending on which pleco's you have, a 220 may not even be large enough. They can be serious waste producers. What size are they now?


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## Cartem2 (Oct 4, 2011)

BelieveInBlue said:


> Hey I work at a LFS!!! :x


Heh sorry BIB, I was speaking in general, I should of said "most but not necessarily all"


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I agree with the others to depend on water changes to control toxins rather than chemical media.

Take a look at the advice from Prov356 to swap media from an established tank. You responded that your filters already have media in them. The reason for the swap is to move in media with an established crop of beneficial bacteria already growing on it to eat some of the toxins in your new tank.

Note that cycling with fish, if toxins are allow to get too high (like ammonia 4ppm), it can cause permanent damage to your fish. In the old days before the cycle was understood, you cycled with fish that you expected to die...like feeders maybe.

Once your tank is cycled, what will you do about the fact that the fish are too large for the tank? Maybe you are planning a larger tank in the near future?


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

Florida tap water is generally hard. Mine is about 12 dH/kH, and buffers to pH of 8.0.


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## SEAN420 (Nov 24, 2011)

Well i appreciate all this. Since i now have the weekend to do some stuff to the tank i will try to get the feeders out of there. I also plan on getting a 220+Gal tank eventually after the new year.. The one pleco might be 4.5 to 5 inches already. the smaller one maybe 2/2.5...... im already thinking about getting rid of the bigger one. he totally produces alot of waste already. 

i also didnt think that these fish were too big for this tank atm.. but, from last night to tonight when i got back from work.. i noticed that my texas was now chasing my firemouth. and the texas and the convict seem to be doing some weird swimming next to eachother.. Has anyone known of Texas cichlids and convicts breeding? Would be some weird fry  lol


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