# Ammonia level at 4ppm HELP to get it down please.



## matrixsc (Feb 6, 2010)

I've just set up a Cichlid tank from new. At the moment i have 8 small Cichlids in there and they all seem fine and are swimming around fine.

The problem is my Ammonia level hasn't moved from around 4ppm all week.

When I started the tank i used tetra safestart as advised by the aquatics i bought my equipment from.

I'm not sure what's causing the Ammonia to be so high I'm only feeding the fish like once every 3 days. My PH is around 8.5 i have a lot of coral in the tank.

I really don't know what to do I've been told by one person do a water change and someone else has said don't as it will kill off the bacteria that's starting to grow. I've also been suggested to put in some more safestart ?

If anyone could give me any advice I'd very much appreciate it .

My equipment is :-

Rio 180 tank
Tetratec ex700
Hydor external heater 200w

Just added a Philips Tropical Aquarium Purifier 120-240 Litres as well but i know this will take a bit of time to kick in.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I really don't know what to do I've been told by one person do a water change and someone else has said don't as it will kill off the bacteria that's starting to grow.


Do the water changes, it won't kill off any bacteria. I never understood this advice. Better to keep ones fish in toxic ammonia?? The bacteria product is obviously not going to work for you. If you add more, then you can't do the water change without potentially making it less effective, but seems it hasn't been effective anyway. If you're going to add more, do a few major water changes first to get ammonia down to 1ppm or below, then add more and monitor for a day to see if it's going to work.

Water changes, light feedings, Ammolock or Prime to detox, and ride it out. That's all you can do short of buying and trying more bacteria in a bottle. Don't mess with the filter right now.

For future, use the bottled product, but fishless cycle, as some of these bottled bacteria products seem to be so hit and miss. Some have success with these products and some don't. Now you're in a situation that's not fun to be in for you or the fish.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Can you explain what you mean by having a lot of coral in the tank?


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

I imagine he means the white coral skeleton stuff that some people use as rockwork. At least, I hope he's not referring to live coral... :-\


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## dotbomb (Jan 5, 2011)

Definitely do what Tim says above. You must do water changes to get your ammonia below 1ppm or you are going to end up with dead fish.

But to add to it... if you are using a bottled product to start cycling your tank make sure you shake the bottle a lot. Vigorously shake that bottle so the liquid is a milky white/frothy mixture when you pour it in your tank.


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## 60gallon (Dec 14, 2010)

Why....the type of ammonia that bubbles / froths up is weak compared to ammonia that bubbles up but the bubbles quickly dissolve.


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## dotbomb (Jan 5, 2011)

60gallon said:


> Why....the type of ammonia that bubbles / froths up is weak compared to ammonia that bubbles up but the bubbles quickly dissolve.


I was referring to the use of a "bottled product" that starts the bacteria growth not to a bottle of ammonia.

The OP refers to "Tetra Safestart". That's the bottle product I was referring to :thumb:


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## 60gallon (Dec 14, 2010)

Gotcha....sorry


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## matrixsc (Feb 6, 2010)

Sorry for the late reply,Thanks for all the input people

Yes I have lots of coral rock I meant not live coral.

I'll do a part water change and see how things going but won't this just temporary remove the problem?

Thanks.


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## ZeNozzle (Feb 28, 2011)

When the bacteria colonies are properly established this problem shouldn't arise anymore. if it does you killed the colony somehow but that would involve a major scrubdown of everything they colonize or letting their homes dry completely.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

matrixsc said:


> I'll do a part water change and see how things going but won't this just temporary remove the problem?


It is temporary but it's not a one time intervention. You need to monitor your parameters and keep doing water changes (twice per day if necessary) to keep your ammonia and nitrite levels as low as possible. Eventually the beneficial bacteria will develop to the point where they are taking care of the ammonia and nitrite levels. Your ammonia levels will go down first but your nitrite will spike once that happens. I hate to break it to you but you could have four to five weeks of this regiment ahead of you till the tank is properly cycled.

As Tim (Prov356) has said, in addition to water changes, feeding lightly and using a water conditioner such as Prime or Ammolock are going to be critical to helping your fish survive this stage.

Once you've done enough water changes to bring your ammonia down, it would really help if you could get hold of some filter media from an established tank. Squeezing a sponge from an established tank into one that is uncycled can work wonders.

Keep posting your progress so people here can guide you through this stage.


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## matrixsc (Feb 6, 2010)

Right I've done a 3rd of a tank water change this morning before I did the changed I checked the Ammonia level and it was still at 4ppm.

Since doing the change it seems to have dropped a little to around 2.5ppm I'll do another test tomorrow.

Everything else on a test strip looked fine so just got to sort this Ammonia issue out.

Added a couple of photos if anyone is interested .









Thanks.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Beautiful tank!

I would do another 30% water change to bring the ammonia down below 2 ppm.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Do another 50% change. Get the level down to 1ppm or below as soon as you can.


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

Keep feeding super light (borderline no food at all).

This will help keep the levels down until you get it cycled.


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## matrixsc (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks for the replies once again I really appreciate it as i want to get my tank right so I can more fish.

Right I've just done a 50% change and I'm down to 1ppm / 0.5ppm I'm guessing I'll have to wait till the morning to see what it's gone back up to.

I've got try and find another way to do water changes as I'm putting the water into buckets then throwing them on the garden or down the drain.

Filling up is the harder part!

Thanks.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

matrixsc said:


> I've got try and find another way to do water changes as I'm putting the water into buckets then throwing them on the garden or down the drain.
> 
> Filling up is the harder part!


Water changes can be made a lot easier if you use something like this:

http://www.pythonproducts.com/aqprod.html


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## matrixsc (Feb 6, 2010)

Thats what I need!

Though it only seems a available in the USA not in England


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

matrixsc said:


> Thats what I need!
> 
> Though it only seems a available in the USA not in England


You can find one here, or just Google 'aquarium water changer UK'.


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

prov356 said:


> Do another 50% change. Get the level down to 1ppm or below as soon as you can.


+1 to prov356.

i would say even a 75% water change if your levels are at 4ppm and you do a 50% change that only gets them down to 2ppm and they need to be below 1ppm. 0ppm is the goal. maybe many 50% water changes a day. test your water many times a day and if its over 2ppm change 50% of the water. you might want to get a better test as well those strips doesn't work near as well as the liquid test tube one. API makes a great one.


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## matrixsc (Feb 6, 2010)

Right did another water change tonight about 75% I'm now reading 0.25 / 0.50ppm. I also added another bottle of safestart.

I'll do another test tomorrow and see where I'm at.

Also I can't find any good water changers in the uk they all seem to be based in the states.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

matrixsc said:


> Also I can't find any good water changers in the uk they all seem to be based in the states.


The other option would be to get a universal adapter and connect a garden hose (that's approved for use with potable water) to a sink near the tank. This will at least make refilling the tank easier. You'd want to use a dechlorinator dosage that does the entire tank when adding water from the tap.

If you have a place to drain that's below the tank you could also siphon water out of the tank using the hose.

The above methods are actually much more environmentally friendly than the water changer, which is easy to use but wastes a LOT of water.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Also I can't find any good water changers in the uk they all seem to be based in the states.


They're available to you. Check --here-- or just Google 'aquarium water changer UK'.


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## matrixsc (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks Tim I get the feeling they've been put stock for a while now. I'll keep on checking though.

Thanks.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Hmmm... I didn't see that they were out of stock and every alternative I came across, same thing. Why are these so hard to get over there :-? Maybe stop in a local shop and see if they have an equivalent or have a supplier that can get something. Wish I could be of more help.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

python is a name brand there are others that make this like aqueon


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

newforestrob said:


> python is a name brand there are others that make this like aqueon


Understood, but can't even find the alternatives in the UK.


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## matrixsc (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks for looking Tim .

Well just done another Ammonia test and I'm around 0.25ppm at the moment which is looking much better .

Also just got my new Juwel light hood unit today which looks amazing now as the last one had faulty bulbs before the unit decided to die on me! .

So if the Ammonia level stays around here hopefully I'll be able to add more fish soon .

Thanks.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

good luck on finding one,I,ve been looking for the past 20 min.maybe ask where youre getting the equipment now if that hasnt been suggested already


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

matrixsc said:


> Thanks for looking Tim .
> 
> Well just done another Ammonia test and I'm around 0.25ppm at the moment which is looking much better .
> 
> ...


I wouldn't add fish till both ammonia and nitrites are 0.


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## juststayinthecave (Dec 23, 2010)

Matrix,

Get a picture or drawing of the python, go to a well stocked plumbing shop and a half decent plumber should be able to fix you up real quick. Make sure you have a tap that has a thread, may have a screen attachment you can take off and bring to the hardware store so you start with the right thread and attachment. The rest is basic fitinngs(Valve below "T" to change from fill to empty, flexible tubing(preferablt clear) and rigid clear tubing at gravel cleaning end. May be more expensive but will probably be better quality.

Good luck.


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## musicman3204 (Mar 9, 2011)

heres a question...if i use the python syphone thing...and i have tap water with chlorine/chloramines in it...i just add the declhorinator to the thank before i start filling up the tank...say enough dechlorinator for just the water change or hte whole tank...so if i do 15 gallons then 3 teaspoons or 11 teaspoons for my full size 55 gallon tank?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

musicman3204 said:


> heres a question...if i use the python syphone thing...and i have tap water with chlorine/chloramines in it...i just add the declhorinator to the thank before i start filling up the tank...say enough dechlorinator for just the water change or hte whole tank...so if i do 15 gallons then 3 teaspoons or 11 teaspoons for my full size 55 gallon tank?


You treat for the full tank when adding water with the python.


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## jimmie (Oct 23, 2002)

PRIME SHALL SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM. :wink:


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## musicman3204 (Mar 9, 2011)

zimmy said:


> musicman3204 said:
> 
> 
> > heres a question...if i use the python syphone thing...and i have tap water with chlorine/chloramines in it...i just add the declhorinator to the thank before i start filling up the tank...say enough dechlorinator for just the water change or hte whole tank...so if i do 15 gallons then 3 teaspoons or 11 teaspoons for my full size 55 gallon tank?
> ...


ok so take out as much water as i'd like...and then treat the tank for with dechlorinator for a total of 55 galls as i have a 55 gallon tank...is that right...it wouldbe safe? also...it wouldn't affect my ph to much? also...this will have no negative effects on the beneficial bacteria?


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## 60gallon (Dec 14, 2010)

^^ Yes

Works fine for me. opcorn:


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## musicman3204 (Mar 9, 2011)

sweet this will make water changes to much easier and should help to solve my ph problem!!! it is at least 6.0 which is terrible but i am starting to correct it


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