# How Much Salt?



## BLUE RAM (Oct 4, 2005)

How much salt can I add (per 10 gallons) to keep it tolerable for cories & loaches. I'm using it to treat a possible fungi or external parasite problem (not ich) so I need to use as much as I safely can. The cories & loaches are not affected but the other fish (discus) are. I am also going to use melafix & pimafix as prescribed. I'm going this route before going to more extreme medications. Don't think melafix & pimafix should be a problem with the salt. Tank will also get daily water changes and lots of aeration.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

I don't know how much salt the cories can take--clown loaches can take quite a bit, but the real question is: what do your fish actually have? Salt is not a cure all and you could be wasting valuable time by treating with salt first. Most illnesses have only a short period of time in which medications/treatments will be effective.

Please post back and tell me the symptoms your fish are showing and for how long they've had these symptoms. 
Are they gasping?
Flashing?
Have white or gray fuzzy, patchy growth anywhere on them?
Are all fish eating at every feeding?
Are all fish swimming normally or is any of them choosing to hang at the top or the bottom or hide behind something? 
How long have you had these particular fish? 
What are your water parameters?
How often do you do partial water changes and how much water do you typically replace?
Do you use a declorinator? If so what brand and do you routinely add anything else to the water?

I know, that's a lot of questions to have thrown at you. Just answer as many of them as you can and hopefully we'll be able to help you with your fish.

Robin


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## BLUE RAM (Oct 4, 2005)

Here is my original post and the update posted today - these were posted on another forum

Background - added two wild caught juvenile angelfish & 8 rummynose tetras to my 90 gal discus tank on Sunday. New fish were quarantined both by the importer (very reliable) and by myself. 
Did a 30% water change yesterday as I noticed the discus were not acting quite normal - nothing alarming though. I noticed a lot of microscopic white stuff in the water column after doing the water change. I thought the filters would clear it up and it did but I have never seen this before. There was just a lot of stuff floating in the water column.
Tested the tank this morning for ammonia and nitrites - both zero. Temp steady @ 84/85. Two large water changes per week. 
Symptoms - mainly one clamped fin on most of the fish and very little moving around. Colour is good; respiration is good - just clamped fins. One fish is showing some microscopic white things on its sides - not on fins. Does not look at all like ich. No scratching or flashing whatsoever. Fish are full grown adults. 
I'm thinking maybe it is gill flukes. Would they have been introdued with the new fish or are they always present in your water waiting to make an attack?
I have never had to deal with this before. I have Jungle parasite clear tabs (ingredients - prazi, metro, difluorobenzamide & acriflavine). It indicates it is effective against flukes. 
I'd like to start a treatment tonight. Would any other medication be better to use? Would the addition of salt into the water be beneficial.
No other fish seem to be affected - cories, tetras & bristlenose pleco.
Any advice appreciated.

UPDATE 
Wed p.m. - did 30% water change, added salt @ 1 tbls per 10 gal (scaleless fish in tank), added aeration, maintained temp @ 85, treated with 8 tabs of Jungle parasite clear as I suspected they had gill/skin flukes. Fish had no adverse reaction to the medication, however, it has not improved the symptoms. I have watched these fish very closely and the reason I do not now believe they have flukes is because there is no scratching or flashing and their gill function seems fine even though there is still some clamped fins. 
Thursday evening - no water change - no additional medication added. Some of the fish (including the two new angels) now have very small white tuffs on their body and some tuffs on their tail fin. I do not believe I can simply wait and hope this goes away even with large daily water changes. My question is what medication to use. From what I've read and photos I've seen, this appears to be fungi, however I don't believe these fish have been subjected to factors which result in a fungul infection. The tank is well maintained and the fish were not in any way stressed. The fish will have to be treated in the main tank since my quarantine tank is housing a friend's fish as a result of her tank springing a major leak! 
I've spent several hours doing research on what to do. I am aware you cannot just throw more medication at them but I am still unsure of exactly what to use. How does one know if it is bacterial or fungi. As I can see the symptoms do you assume it is fungi?? 
What should be my next step??

In addition to this - no the fish are not eating - they are simply hanging out near the top of the tank.


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

I'll defer to Robin's expertise... but in the meantime:

Our green cory's can handle the full recommended dose of salt indefinitely.

If you have cottony growths on the body, it sounds like you have something more serious than what I've had luck with by treating with Melafix and Pimafix. Though, I don't think it'll hurt to try. Pond grade formulations are more economical for treating whole tanks.

If it's as bad as it sounds, you may want to try treating with the Maracyn/Maroxy "suite" of meds. Keep an eye on the Ammonia levels throughout treatment.

Can you slowly dial back the temp to around 80*F? 85-86* is pretty warm. Cooler temps will slow down the metabolism if whatever the culprit is. Keep up the water changes, and clean your filters out.

-Ryan


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

It is difficult to determine whether or not you're dealing with a bacterial or fungal infection and quite often the fish will have both. Fish don't have to be overly stressed to get fungal or bacterial infections however just the stress of being moved to a new tank and/or having new tank mates is enough stress. 
The 'microscopic white stuff' in the water may be the start of a bacterial or algae bloom. What are your nitrate levels?



> One fish is showing some microscopic white things on its sides - not on fins. Does not look at all like ich.


 Can you still see these 'microscopic white things' or would you say these have developed into the tufts of white you now see on the fish?

It doesn't sound like a parasite--sounds like bacteria or fungal infection. Increasing water movement and adding salt at the rate of 1-2 tablespoons per gallon will help keep it from spreading. You should also give the gravel an extra good siphoning and do a partial water change using a good quality declorinator. 
Keeping the water conditions where they should be, (0-ammonia and nitrite and low nitrate), the increased water movement, salt and pimafix/ melafix MIGHT turn things around for your fish. It depends on the strain of bacteria/fungus they have. The problem is that without knowing exactly what strain you're dealing with you may suddenly find out that you needed to do more. 
So my advice to you is to give it another 24 hours at the most. Follow *RyanR's *advice and turn the heat down and have the Maracyn&Maracyn-two on hand. If you don't see improvement in the fish after 24 hours, (and this is 24 hours with the salt, increased water movement etc), then treat the tank with the antibiotic.

Please post back with any questions or concerns.

Robin


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## BLUE RAM (Oct 4, 2005)

Thanks for all the advice thus far. Regarding temp, the tank is always kept at 85 as it is a discus tank. I can't lower it too much without stressing them out. I will lower to about 83. After losing one fish on Friday evening, I decided to treat the tank with Rid Ich+ which contains two ingredients to fight external parasites and fungal infections. Did a water change before the treatment and will do another water change today with a second dose. The fish are no better no worse. Their colour is quite dark and one fish appears to have lost some slime coat although I'm not certain what that looks like. There are lighter patches on the body - loss of slime coat??
If no improvement by Sunday evening, I will be starting Maracyn & Maracyn 2. I am considering borrowing a 25 gal tank to move the 5 discus into. I think that is big enough for quarantine? I'd rather not subject all the fish to treatment if they are not showing any symptoms (ie. the tetras, loaches, angels & bristlenose). Would it be better to treat the whole tank?? What if the discus improve in quarantine to the point where they are ready to go back to the main tank and they get reinfected because whatever was the problem is still there?? I know alot of questions to ask but I'm trying to be thorough and do the best thing.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Well okay, the symptoms you've described do NOT sound like external parasites but since you've already gone ahead with the RidIch+ we'll take it from there.

On the temp: lowering it would be a temporary measure to slow the spread of the possible bacterial disease your fish have.

On returning the Discus to the main tank once they are well and the concern that there's still something contaigious in the main tank: yes that is a valid concern but the answer depends on exactly what the fish have. In the case of external parasites, ich, velvet, chillondella, etc all fish need to be treated regardless of whether or not they are all showing symptoms. So if you were treating for parasites you would need to treat the main tank and the hospital tank simoultaneously. 
While fungus and bacterial infections are also contaigious the spread of these is more reliant on the fish already being under some sort of stress that allows them to be overwelmed by the fungus or bacteria--most of which normally reside harmlessly in the aquarium. It's not like you can get totally rid of the fungus and bacteria--the goal is to keep the fish healthy and stress free so that they can fend them off for themselves.

Did you do anything with the salt? 
The fish that died friday night: it would be helpful to know the complete history of this fish: species, how long you've had it, and especially the symptoms. First symptom, second, etc--when was the first symptom?

Robin


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## BLUE RAM (Oct 4, 2005)

Some happy news - after 3 treatments of kanamycin, my discus have completely recovered and look fantastic. I only ended up losing 1 of 6 adults and no other fish. Considering how sick they were, I was sure I was going to lose all of them. They have been eating up a storm for a week now and are back taking pot-shots at each other.


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