# I'm going to plead stupidity here - A heater question...



## gpaaib (Jan 21, 2008)

I am setting up a 90g acrylic tank 48Lx18Wx24H. It will be housing Mbunas so I want it to maintain about an 80Â° water temp.

What do I need as far as heating goes? How many watts? Will I need more than one heater? Do I place them on the side walls?

Thanks for any help.

Gary


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## Windowlicka (Feb 6, 2008)

Hi Gary,

FYIW, I have a single 300W heater in my new 90 Gallon. The house remains at a steady 71F, and the heater so far has managed to keep the water stable at 79F without running '24x7'.

Some people suggest 2 heaters to eliminate 'dead-spots' (and for "redundancy"). Me? I wanted lots of rock at the rear of the tank, two heaters = twice the risk once might get broken! Plus if all power goes out, there goes any redundancy with it!

My heater is located on an angle to the rear of the tank. temp is monitored by an external LCD thermometer with an internal probe.

HTH.


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

I have a 250W in my 90 gallon but I have even run a 200W with no problem maintaining 78 Degrees.


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## 748johnd (Jun 30, 2007)

I have a 250-watt heater in my 90 and it keeps the temperature at a steady 80 degrees.


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## gpaaib (Jan 21, 2008)

A question for those with the 250w in a 90g tank.

What am I doing wrong?

I have a 250w Marineland Stealth placed on the side wall of my 90g and I can't get my tank to heat up past 60Â°. When I feel the side of my tank it seems warm in the area of the heater but a few inches away it starts cooling off. I tested my thermometer by running it under hot tap water and it rose to 80 in a few seconds, so I know it at least works.

Could there be something wrong with the heater?


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## horseman (Dec 16, 2006)

What you need to do is take your aquarium gallons and multiply by 5 and that is how many heater watts you need. For a 90 you need 450 watts.


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## shortround (Jul 11, 2005)

I have a 100w Stealth in a 55g. It will keep it 78 F without problem.

I did however notice that it takes forever to raise the temp. This is what I wanted though. During cycling I had a 250w heater malfunction. I came home and the tank was 90F!

I didn't want to chance that with fish. Some people use 2 watts per gallon. I'm now one of them.

Try to raise the temp to what you want it to be and then see if it can maintain it.


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## 748johnd (Jun 30, 2007)

gpaaib, My heater is the same as yours and I have it angled near the bottom center on the back wall and my thermometer is on the upper left front corner. I have a canister and two HOBs filtering the tank and maybe it has something to do with the water circulation in the tank. I can see the waves of heat coming off the heater when I look from the side of the tank. Stealth heaters are very dependable, but I suppose you could have a defective one. I rather doubt it though. I'm thinking it could be a water circulation issue. I've checked my temperature at various spots and it is uniform. Mine is at 80 degrees so I am amazed that yours is only 60. If you don't think it is due to water circulation then I would try to add another heater.


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## mstatdfield (Jan 20, 2008)

horseman, the 5w per gallon rule is usually best applied to smaller tanks <75g. For tanks that are larger than 75g you can use a 2-3w per gallon as the standard. Reasoning being that large tanks are able to retain heat better due to their larger volume. See what happens when you put both a 5g bucket and a small cup of water outside in the cold or in the freezer. The small cup will freeze much faster than the 5g bucket. For a 90g a 250w heater should be just fine. It is important to keep it in an area with good water circulation and even better if you place it towards the bottom of the tank in a horizontal position

-MStatdfield


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

I agree with the above. I have a 250W heater in my 180 gallon tank and I can keep my tank at 77F with no problem. Granted, it seems to be on more than off, but it keeps the temperature constant.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

shortround said:


> I have a 100w Stealth in a 55g. It will keep it 78 F without problem.
> 
> I did however notice that it takes forever to raise the temp. This is what I wanted though. During cycling I had a 250w heater malfunction. I came home and the tank was 90F!
> 
> ...


 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:



punman said:


> I agree with the above. I have a 250W heater in my 180 gallon tank and I can keep my tank at 77F with no problem. Granted, it seems to be on more than off, but it keeps the temperature constant.


 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

5 watts per gallon is unecessary and risky. It'll cook your fish pretty quick if it malfunctions.

Here's a calculator. 1-2 watts per gallon is good for an acrylic tank.

All heaters have a differential. Meaning the difference between the temp when it first kicks on and the temp when it kicks off. It's usually about 1 degree. If you set for 80, then it may kick on at 79.5 and off at 80.5. If's ok if it takes a while to climb that differential. That also indicates it'd take a while to overheat the tank if it stuck on and kill your fish. You'll probably find that it also takes hours to drop that 1 degree. I know it sounds hard to believe, but get a heater with a light indicator and a digital thermometer and test. It'll prove it out.

The 3-5 watt recommendation comes from the heater manufacturers. Just like filter ratings from filter manufacturers, it shouldn't be take seriously. It's not real world.

Using multiple heaters without a controller may just result in only one heater ever coming on.

if a 250w heater doesn't heat a 90 gallon tank, then either the heater is faulty or it's not positioned properly or there's poor circulation in the tank. Place it horizontally with the heater element end near a filter intake.


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## gpaaib (Jan 21, 2008)

prov356 said:


> if a 250w heater doesn't heat a 90 gallon tank, then either the heater is faulty or it's not positioned properly or there's poor circulation in the tank. Place it horizontally with the heater element end near a filter intake.


That could be my problem. At the moment I have it verticle on the opposite side of the tank by the output.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

gpaaib said:


> prov356 said:
> 
> 
> > if a 250w heater doesn't heat a 90 gallon tank, then either the heater is faulty or it's not positioned properly or there's poor circulation in the tank. Place it horizontally with the heater element end near a filter intake.
> ...


The heat may then just be rising up past the internal controller portion of the heater and causing the heater to shut off. Laying it horizontally near the outflow should work too.


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

gpaaib said:


> A question for those with the 250w in a 90g tank.
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> ...


What temperature is the room where the tank is located? Most heaters can only raise the temp 10 or so degrees from ambient.

You will get the best performance from your heater if you lay it horizontally and in an area of good water flow. If the water is not moving past the heater at a steady rate, the heater will heat just the water around it and when that very small pocket of water reaches temp, it will shut off. This problem is compounded by having the heater vertically. The taouto shutoff thermometer is located in the top of the unit. The heater warms the water directly surrounding the unit, it rises and triggers it to shut off.

I have had the best lick by putting my heaters at the bottom of the back (or side) wall with one of the filter outputs pointed directly at it. That will give you the best (and most even) heating for a tank.

If you need to, add a small powerhead and have it blow directly at your heater to move the warmed water off and allow colder water to take its place.


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## gpaaib (Jan 21, 2008)

Thank God I found this forum. The knowledge I have gained here is awesome. A big thanks to all!


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## edmlfc (Aug 6, 2007)

I have a 250 watt on my 125 gallon and also on my 160 gallon. I put the heater in the middle of the tank by the waterflow. I have a thermometer on both sides of my tank and the water is a steady 80. I started with one heater on each side, then I took one out just to see if there was a difference. I didn't notice any difference so I left it out. I am keeping the other two as back up heaters for emergency. The aquarium heater does not run 24/7 and my home temp is around 70 24/7.


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## dwschacht (Jan 8, 2007)

I will buck the system. As long as the temp of the house doesn't drop below 70 degrees (some might even say lower than that  ) you don't need a heater.

Burn me now, but you don't need them.

I have mbuna tanks that breed on a regular basis and show bright coloration. All are kept at room temp (70-72 in the winter/76-78 Summer). This mbuna need 80 degree F temp water is a falsehood. Yes they are less active, less agressive. I feed them less so they don't grow as fast, but they live just as long if not longer, the breed like rabits, and the coloration is outstanding. I have done both ways, room temp is the cheaper way (capital cost of heater purchase avoided and electrical cost per month reduced)

Ok, I am braced and ready for the bash...

(also, mbuna are not herbivors if they were you could let holding females release in a tank and they would all survive, you can mix feeding pelets and flake in the same feeding without getting bloat, you only need to dose a tank for the water changed even if you add water directly from the sink, you do not need 10x water movement for filtration, and more complex = not better! Sponge filters all the way baby!)


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Ok, I am braced and ready for the bash...


Thinking 'outside the box' lends itself to that, doesn't it? :lol: If it's worked for you, there's no arguing with that.

Only experience I've had is when a heater stopped working and the tank temp dropped to 75. Saw no difference in activity or behavior that'd tip me off. 
So either it hadn't dropped far enough, hadn't been long enough or they'd do fine at 75. Hard to say and I'm not wanting to experiment, so I'll never know.


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## dwschacht (Jan 8, 2007)

Answer this:

Why do the divers in the rift lakes wear diving suits? Because they are comfortable or because the water is cold? When you are at a depth of 150 ft. (common for frontosa) is it really 75-77 degrees F like the forum profiles sugest they should be kept at?

I live in Texas so it never really gets cold, but we do get some cool weather. This is my first year doing so, but I know many that have done so with success. I am setting up a small above ground swimming pool and early April I will be moving fish out there.

Someone with experience told me that as long as the days get above 60 degrees, the fish survive just fine.


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## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

I put my heater in the sump of my wet/dry. Is that ok? I have a 75G.


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

Charrisse said:


> I put my heater in the sump of my wet/dry. Is that ok? I have a 75G.


The sump is great place to put a heater. It keeps it out of sight and prevents any damage tothe unit by fish or decor.

That's where mine is. :thumb:


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## Charrisse (Feb 17, 2008)

MalawiLover said:


> Charrisse said:
> 
> 
> > I put my heater in the sump of my wet/dry. Is that ok? I have a 75G.
> ...


Great! TY. i hadnt seen anything about anyone putting theirs there, so i was worried for a sec  I just set this whole new system up and havent added my fish yet.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

dwschacht said:


> I will buck the system. As long as the temp of the house doesn't drop below 70 degrees (some might even say lower than that  ) you don't need a heater.
> 
> Burn me now, but you don't need them.


I'm wondering if anyone else has experience with this. I had a heater malfunction and I had to stop using it (I've since learned not to have ANY rocks on top of the heater unless you want to ruin it). While my two main tanks still have heaters, my hospital tank does not and at first I was really worried because I had to place an ill fish in that tank, but so far he is actually getting better as I treat him and I see no indication at all that the lack of a heater is causing a problem.

So I'm really wondering whether it is worth having a heater. I could see why maybe having one around the house for any tank you care about is worth it if the power goes out and you have a back-up generator for the filter and the heater, but otherwise you not only save $$$, it seems like you can have even less risk because even the best heaters can get stuck in the on position, can all of a sudden stop working (and cause a huge fluctuation in temperature) etc.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

It all depends what species of fish you are keeping... some 'need' higher temps... some do better at lower temps...

Do be careful not to move a fish from a heated tank to an unheated tank... the sudden (immediate in htis case) temp swing can cause problems...


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## hey_wood1981 (Apr 7, 2004)

Also, remember when placing a heater in a tank to let it sit for 10-15 mins before plugging it in.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Add me to the 2 watt list..
I like my fish deep fried, not boiled.

Side note, down here in Fla. I have not had a heater in a tank for..*OMG*..has it been that long.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

Toby_H said:


> It all depends what species of fish you are keeping... some 'need' higher temps... some do better at lower temps...
> 
> Do be careful not to move a fish from a heated tank to an unheated tank... the sudden (immediate in htis case) temp swing can cause problems...


What's considered a significant temp swing? If I have a heater in the tank I keep it around 77 and it usually fluctuates between the winter/summer between 76 and 79.

So far, with no heater in this one tank, the temp has hovered around 73 to 75.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

It's always best to adjust temperatures slowly... which is where the concept of floating fish came from.

If you are pulling a fish from one tank and plopping it in antoher, it would be best to do some form of "acclimation" first if there are temperature / PH differences in the tank.

Again, different species will handle temp swings differently. As a general guideline I've always followed, it's okay to bump them up a couple degrees, but do not plop them right into cooler water.

Now I have no scientific data to support that concept, it's just what I was taught many moons ago and I've yet to associate any problems to following it...

Personally, I put efforts into keeping all of my tanks the same temp / PH so that I can confidently toss fish from one tank to the next. Heck, I have 5 tanks plumbed together without a sump and 50% of the reason is so I can move fish aroudn without concern (the other 50% being I don't have to do daily water changes on fry tanks).


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