# Can't get tank to cycle



## Domi1113 (Mar 5, 2020)

Hello all,

thank you in advance for any help...

I'm at the point of frustration and almost ready to quit...

I've had my tank for 6 months now... about 3 months ago we were leaving for 14 days, so i bought an automatic fish feeder.... well, accidentally, that fell into the tank with all the food - i scooped as much out as possible. 
ever since then, i can not get my tank to cycle... I've tried everything I've been told. i do not know what to do any longer... i use the vacuum every time i clean the tank... I've tried everything when it comes to cleaning and doing water changes, daily, every other day, waiting a couple of days... no matter what i do, when i change the water, 4 hours later my ammonia is through the roof, super dark green when tested... I've tested the water i use for the tank, comes back as no ammonia.

I've lost some fish... I'm using ammo lock to keep the current fish alive. 
i tried to get a couple catfish, they lasted about 3 days... 
I've used the bacteria start up, i went through 3 bottles of it, putting a cap full in each day, no luck

i've moved to feeding them every other day or every third day to make sure i'm not over feeding.

its a 54 gallon corner tank... has about 7 chichilds in it now... i have 2 Ehim cartridge filters

how can i get the tank to cycle and ammonia down?

I'm at a loss and ready to throw in the towel...


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Welcome to C-F!! So sorry you are having problems since the fish food debacle.

How much water are you changing at one time? I would suggest a 50% water change since you say the ammonia is off the charts. Continue doing the water changes, daily if necessary until you see a lower or no ammonia level.

What are you using for substrate? If gravel or similar coarse substrate that is deeper than one inch, you may have food trapped in the substrate still which is contributing to the ammonia problem.

Which Eheim filter do you have that uses cartridges?

Which cichlids do you have and about how large are they?

Any chance you can post some pics of your tank?


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## Domi1113 (Mar 5, 2020)

I typically change 25 gallons at a time... i did last week change about 45 gallons to just try something different.. 
I've been doing 25 gallons daily for about 5 days now.

I'm using gravel... I get pretty deep in the rocks and even move them all around to stir more up when cleaning.

EHEIM Classic Canister Filter 2213, Classic 250 - i now have two of them in the tank

African Cichlids - about an inch or so each


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the info and the pic.

I count 10 cichlids and maybe a cory cat in the lower front bottom by the pot?

Is the pot you have in there made for aquarium use or is it something you bought elsewhere? The reason I ask is that sometimes off the shelf items can leach unknowns into the aquarium so if you aren't positive it is safe, remove it for the time being to at least eliminate it as source.

Usually a 50% water change will cut down ammonia by 50% assuming there is no excess food, dead fish or other problematic items in the tank. I understand you are frustrated with water changes but I suggest testing for ammonia now and if you see it above zero, do a 50% water change and then test again.

I've not used Ammolock so can't comment on the product. What water conditioner are you using when adding fresh water to the tank?


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## Domi1113 (Mar 5, 2020)

That pic was for a week or so ago - i've lost a fish or two since then... no cory cat

yes, made for aquarium, well i assume as it was bought from my fish store i go to.

I'm not using a water conditioner, should i?

i'm using well water but have a softener


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I didn't know you had well water so as long as you aren't injecting chlorine or similar chemicals you won't need a water conditioner. However, Seachem Prime is commonly used to temporarily bind the harmful ammonia for a couple days to allow the ammonia using bacteria to utilize it.

I'm just trying to eliminate possible causes of the high ammonia level since you have been doing water changes to get the number down. If you continue to do large water changes over the next 2 days and you are not seeing the ammonia drop, I would consider removing all the decorations so you can be more thorough in the substrate vacuuming in case there is still food trapped or maybe a dead fish somewhere.

I also have well water so don't require a water conditioner but have kept Prime or similar product available in case of emergency.

Do you know what type of salt you are using in your softener? Any other type of equipment used to treat your well water?


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## Domi1113 (Mar 5, 2020)

If I were to do say 4 changes a week, I remove the decorations probably twice to get a deep clean.

I use Dura-cube salt in my softener and that's it

I've tested water out of the tap and there's no ammonia in it.


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## cyclonecichlids (Sep 7, 2019)

Domi1113 said:


> If I were to do say 4 changes a week, I remove the decorations probably twice to get a deep clean.
> 
> I use Dura-cube salt in my softener and that's it
> 
> I've tested water out of the tap and there's no ammonia in it.


I would start doing 40% water changes 3 time daily for 3-4 days, then once a day for a week. I wouldn't use ammonia lock at all or anything other than a simple dechlorinator. You may be removing ammonia that nitrobacter need to grow, preventing the cycle.

I imagine your levels would return to normal after that regimen. I'd remove all the decorations for now.


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## Domi1113 (Mar 5, 2020)

I will try that, thank you!

When I do vacuum the rocks, I do get a lot of almost like dust coming up, nothing large, just like a white dust.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I don't see any rocks or substrate in your gravel that could cause white dust so maybe it's just trapped debris or old fish food.

I agree with cyclonecichlids comment about at least temporarily removing decorations so you can be thorough in cleaning the substrate. See if you see more white dust come off of any individual hard decor to see it that is the source of the dust and if so, I wouldn't put those pieces back in the tank.

No problems with the salt brand you are using for the softener as far as I know. Once you get the ammonia under control, I'll ask additional questions about your options for bypassing the softener for your aquarium.

I forgot to ask which brand and type test kit are you using? BTW, what are your test results for nitrite, nitrate and pH?


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## Domi1113 (Mar 5, 2020)

After removing the decorations and doing 1 water change a day for last 2 days - ammonia is defintley dropping... seeing this has but me in best spirits with this tank in a long time haha

I'm using the API Freshwater test kit

the ammonia was above 8.0 for a long time... its now in the 1.0 to 2.0 range...

Nitrite was always 0 - i have not rechecked, i will do that this evening(i just did a water change and forgot to test nitrate)

still got a decent amount of the white dust to come up when vacuuming tho - its been coming up for a month or longer


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It's weird that your nitrite is zero but your ammonia is 8.

Once I was using black foam at the top of my in-tank 3-D background to extend it higher at the waterline. I had an ammonia spike, and realized it was this foam.

Not suggesting you have foreign foam in your tank, but consider ANYTHING in your tank not meant to be in a aquarium.

There is even ammonia in those little paper drinking cups...found this out when I used them for testing ammonia and got a reading when I used the cups but not when I used a glass container to collect the sample.


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## Domi1113 (Mar 5, 2020)

After testing the nitrate and ammonia last night... after a water change in the AM... ammonia was still around 2.0 and nitrates were 0..
still no decorations


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It might not be a decoration. Substrate? Filter intake or output adaptions? Check everything that touches the water or that you put in the water, even occasionally. Net? Arm? Bucket? Siphon?

Do another 50% water change to get the ammonia under 1ppm.


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## Domi1113 (Mar 5, 2020)

it was over 8 when i had the decortations in - its down alot since i've removed all the decorations...

how would i check if my filter is causing ammonia?

I'm willing to try anything.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you have reviewed everything that ever touches the water, then it has to be leftover food from the accident.

Down a lot but still toxic, so another 50% water change will get it below 1ppm which is the minimum fish can tolerate with minimal long term damage.

If you think it could be leftover food, I would remove the substrate and wash it in a bucket, do a 100% water change and rinse all the filter media as well. At that point your ammonia will be zero and if it goes up again then you will know it is not due to the food incident. You can look for other causes.


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## Domi1113 (Mar 5, 2020)

Do i possibly take the rocks out and try a new substrate like Cichilds sand?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It will not impact your cycling problems. I prefer pool filter sand for a natural look like the lake, functionality and cost.

The fewer chemicals you introduce to your tank, the fewer things that are not in your control that can run amok.

Your tank seems to be cycled since you are producing nitrate. You just have an unidentified ammonia source.


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## Domi1113 (Mar 5, 2020)

Thats the issue, I'm not producing Nitrate.... just high ammonia


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I thought I saw a nitrate reading.

Well ammonia is the first spike in a cycle so maybe you are just beginning a new cycle.


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## Domi1113 (Mar 5, 2020)

Question... I'm being told it could be because my filters are not strong enough... 
I'm using Ehim 250's


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## KBCoggin (Mar 11, 2020)

Domi1113 said:


> Question... I'm being told it could be because my filters are not strong enough...
> I'm using Ehim 250's


I have seen DJ recommend, numerous times, cycle 10x per hour. 54g tank x10 = 540gph. According to Eheim, those filters move 116gph each. IMO, they are under powered for that tank - but I am ALWAYS over filtering my tanks by a ridiculous amount.

DISCLAIMER: I know *nothing* about Cichlids, I am just getting into them. But I have successfully kept tropical fish for a couple decades now.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Lack of a cycle progress has nothing to do with powerful filters. That causes other issue, to be addressed at another time. Not to mention cichlids in a corner tank.

You are growing a crop...it needs time to grow. Can we figure out how long it has been trying to grow?

You left 3 months ago...came back after 14 days. Has it been 2.5 months since you have been trying to get it to cycle again?

Did you have ammonia right away when you returned from vacation? Or did it take a while to build?


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## cyclonecichlids (Sep 7, 2019)

Have you cleaned/changed out the filter media? Why don't you just change it out with new media. Put 50% new media, and 7 days later replace the other 50%.


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## Medgertor (Mar 29, 2018)

If I were you I would get a rubbermaid container and, assuming you are on well water and there is no chlorine or chloramines, fill up the rubbermaid container and put the fish in there. I would make sure the temperature is about the same as what the fish are used to in your tank. I would then put the substrate in a five gallon bucket or something similar and give it a good washing. Just use water, I wouldn't use any soap or anything like that. I would then put the substrate back in the main tank, fill it up with water and get the temperature correct. Seachem makes a product called Seachem Stability. I use this when I start up a new tank. It has the dosing information on the side of the bottle. You use it for like seven days or so. I would wash out your filter media. I would just hook the filters back up to the tank. This is basically what I do when I start a new tank. If you are on city water or something like that you will need to use Seachem Prime to dechlorinate the water. Good Luck!


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