# uh oh... i got fry!



## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Came home just now to find my Male Ellioti guarding a horde of free swimmers...

I pulled the female from the tank after they had laid eggs because he was beating her pretty badly.. I thought the eggs that I never saw may have been eaten..

Do I leave him with them and see how he manages? Or...? I don't have another tank for them apart from putting them with the mother in the 15g. There are some red eye tetras in with them and some cherry barbs.. he is fighting them off best he can.

Going to try feeding crushed flake as its all I have.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Lousy pic..


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Would a moss ball provide food for the fry? I have one in that tank but in one of the other corners.. wondering if dropping it in their corner would be beneficial.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

The 180 is ready, correct? Why not move the female there and siphon out some fry to rear to the 15?


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> The 180 is ready, correct? Why not move the female there and siphon out some fry to rear to the 15?


+1..

I haven't been in your situation where the male and female had to be separated but if you're wanting to keep the fry I'd siphon the majority out into the 15gal. Throw in some dried leaves and that moss ball and they should be set. It's been shown that fry feed off of the micro-organisms that grow on dried leaves and that they actually grow faster with leaves present. All of the fry I've had swarm around the leaf piles in my tank and the parents will actually move the fry to them.. pretty cool to see. You will still need to feed them baby brine shrimp and/or crushed flake though.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

I don't have any leaves but I can get some probably within the week. I didn't really intend on putting the ellioti in the big tank unless I could find more. I'd like a small colony of them in the 180g but they will have some aggressive mates..

Whats the best/safest way to siphon them off? Airline or larger ?


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

You can just keep her in there temporarily..

I use a section off of my old python hose to siphon out fry. Airline hosing is pretty dang small..


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

I got the brine shrimp net out and managed to scoop a few. That's actually how I noticed the fry.. I brought a treat home, live brine shrimp, and I was looking in the corner tank thinking.. hmm that's a lot of brine shrimp that's doesn't look right... when I realized they were the fry. I think he's got 20-30 or more left to look after and I have about the same. Female is in the 180g with her cichlid stone (great way to catch fish btw) and she looks happy, she's exploring at least.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I saw your post about stocking that corner tank, so I thought those Thorichthys were going in the 180. You could certainly grow out some of those fry for the 180, but that would take awhile...


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## Ronzo (Sep 8, 2013)

sjurj; Congrats on the fry...and good luck with them!

If I had to siphon fry, I'd use a large ID hose and once I had siphon started, have it emptying into the draining container _under the surface level_ so as not to beat up the fry too much... also not have too much height difference to the draining end to keep the transfer flow more gentle...I'd love to see what the adults do to defend against that hose monster...

Cj; I did read the suggested article about dried leaves, and found it pretty interesting...can you relate more details of your own experience adding leaves...and recommendations...that article was certainly convincing, but I like to see confirming similar info from multiple sources before I would even consider doing it in my tank(s)...

Cheers from Connecticut!


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

I've found some indian almond leaves that I've ordered. My only concern is they will drop ph, but Its not like I need a ton of them so will only add about 3 to the 15g, I also ordered some NLS fry food. For now I am grinding spirulina flakes as best I can.

Stumpy in the 180 and the fry


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

I've been back and forth with putting the Ellioti in the 180g. I haven't been able to find any more this side of the border so am terrified of losing this pair. With luck mebbe I can grow some of these out and get a colony started. If I fail the pair will be back in the corner for another try. Really bugs me how the male turned on the female the way he did.. mebbe he won't next time, when he recalls what baby sitting was like..


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Ronzo said:


> Cj; I did read the suggested article about dried leaves, and found it pretty interesting...can you relate more details of your own experience adding leaves...and recommendations...that article was certainly convincing, but I like to see confirming similar info from multiple sources before I would even consider doing it in my tank(s)...


Ronzo,

Any questions in particular? I now almost always try to have some leaf litter in my tanks regardless if there are fry present. All of my fish (cichlids, mollies, cats, ect) seem to really enjoy them. The cichlids will pick through them looking for food, nibble on them, move them around the tank, ect. I believe it to be a great stimulus for them as it keeps them "busy" and engaged. When I do have fry the parents will use the leaves as shelter as well as a food source for the fry. I've witnessed my Crypto pairs as well as my past A. multispinosa pairs do this..

Here's a short clip showing one of my Crypto pairs with fry using a pile of leaves for shelter/food source. Be Sure to watch in HD..


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Skurj,

Dang, the female really did take a beating; that's too bad. Hopefully she makes a full recovery.

The leaves will drop the PH a bit, but so does driftwood. It's nothing to really be concerned about. With regular water changes the PH should be pretty stable. My tap water is like liquid rock so that is actually a perk for me..

Great idea with the cichlid stone! I've never thought of that but I may have to pick a few up just to aid in catching fish!

Good luck with the fry!


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

CjCichlid said:


> Skurj,
> 
> The leaves will drop the PH a bit, but so does driftwood. It's nothing to really be concerned about. With regular water changes the PH should be pretty stable.


Yeah after I typed that statement I realized I will be doing enough water changes that the leaves won't have a lot of time to drop ph anyways. Aiming to do 5gal per day on the 15g for the fry. be real sweet to have a few make it.

The male isn't responsible for all the damage but when I found her she was close to given up from the look of her. A couple of gold ocellatus objected to her in the 15g when I first put her in there, and they nipped the fins even more 

Sadly I lost both ocellatus in the end. I am also hoping to breed them as well, their first and last spawn (of another pair) resulted in no survivors


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

She seems pretty happy considering, she is spending lots of time wandering around the 180g probably more space than she has ever had. I can't get over how nice those fish look in their white breeding colours... yet another fish I must add to my list...


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

SO my leaves arrived today and NLS Small fry Starter.. They had Indian almond leaves at under $3 for 10.. and 150 for $30.. so of course I ordered 150 figured they would last me awhile.. What I didn't realize was how big the things are. Not sure how long it takes a leaf to rot away but looks like I will have leaves for years to come... Not sure what my fry survival rate is so far, looks to be minimal.. but hard to tell. The male is guarding more than I was able to fish out by a decent margin I may have to try and grab some more from him if I can. Changing 25-50% water daily for the fry.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

You paid for leaves? Do you not have any trees where you live? :lol: 

Almond tree leaves last pretty long in the aquarium from what I have heard. The oak leaves I use break down within 2 weeks however my fish also eat/shred them. :roll:


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

CjCichlid said:


> You paid for leaves? Do you not have any trees where you live? :lol:
> 
> Almond tree leaves last pretty long in the aquarium from what I have heard. The oak leaves I use break down within 2 weeks however my fish also eat/shred them. :roll:


well its -20 deg C outside, and all the leaves are frozen under the snow...


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Hah, just giving you a hard time. Although.. I actually did go out the other day and gather leaves in my backyard. I however knew exactly where to look beneath the snow as I piled a bunch up earlier this past Fall.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Well yesterday I decided to tear the leaf up into smaller pieces that was in the tank with the male and try and place it nearer the fry. That didn't work... the group of fry he was watching were gone within a couple of hours, likely he ate them. The group in the 15g are still going though. Not sure how this works or how long I will have to keep up daily water changes... hoping I can manage to grow 2 or 3 up.

Next year I'll grab some local leaves


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Small update, at 3 weeks in I still have a dozen or so fry alive! I've not been keeping up with daily water changes, but maybe 3x a week at 30-50% each time though. Been feeding (2x daily) NLS Small Fry Starter going to continue that probably until the end of the month then start alternating with crushed flake.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Nice. Have you decided if the T. Maculipinnis are going into the 180?


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

I think some will... whether its the adult pair or the fry once they grow out I dunno... If he beats her up again, she will likely move into the 180 permanently.

I've already got RTM and Cubans in the 180g, though I will thin them down to 1 each, hopefully the ellioti will stand up to them, especially if I have a few of them in the tank. I think the ellioti maybe the only pairs I put in there the rest will be solos..


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