# Yellow lab with severe throat/gill swelling, labored breath



## normie (Aug 25, 2011)

Hi everyone, my yellow lab, Norman, has suddenly fallen quite ill.

Backstory: two days ago, I noticed he had swelling around his anus (sort of like a donut jellyfish), did some googling, and figured it was constipation - possibly from overfeeding. Lots of people recommended epsom salts, so I added 2 tsp (to a 40 gallon tank, which Norman shares with two other cichlids - flowerhorns, specifically).

Two days later, the swelling around the anus has subsided almost 100%, but he has developed severe swelling around his gills/throat area (I've circled it in red) literally overnight. He's normally very active and responsive, but is now staying near the floor - he seems lethargic and stressed out, and will not eat.










The "flesh" underneath his mouth is very swollen, along with his gills, and his breathing seems labored - it looks like he's panting. He's also been twitching his dorsal fin occasionally, and once in a while will just seem to shudder. It isn't just his gills but his throat that's swelling - typically that area is perfectly flat/smooth on him, not bumpy as shown.

Other forums have suggested that Norman may in fact be female and holding fry, but the only two other fish in the tank are flowerhorns (albeit both male). Also, I'm fairly certain that his markings sex him as male and his mouth appears to be empty. It's been two days since he's fallen ill, and since then I've noticed his fins have "stiffened" - his tail fin particularly is stiff and is beginning to look frayed. He has also been rubbing himself on scratchy surfaces in the tank.

I also just noticed that his eyes have faded - the black stripes on them are typically bright and prominent, but as you see they're all cloudy in the photo. He also doesn't seem to acknowledge me anymore, though he always used to.

I thought the epsom salts had somehow messed up the pH of the water and changed it, and fished out detritus, but this hasn't helped. Also, Norman is the only sick fish in the tank - the flowerhorns seem perfectly healthy. Could it be parasites? What explains the sudden onset (Norman ballooned up overnight) and what can I do for him?

Thank you very much for your help, and apologies for the long post. I really love this fish and I want to save him.


----------



## Chunkanese (Feb 4, 2011)

A lone female will lay eggs and hold their eggs just wont be fertilized. Your lab is holding. should last for a few days/week :thumb:

The swelling around the anus previously was actually due to this as well. Norman is likely a "she"


----------



## normie (Aug 25, 2011)

Hi, thanks for your reply!

Would this explain Norman's odd behavior? "His" body seems stiff (normally his fins move very fluidly, like silk in water) and his tail fin's very slightly fraying, though this might just mean the flowerhorns nipped him (he's moving slowly, when normally he zips around the tank). He just seems lethargic, unresponsive, and his eyes are dull, and I was worried that he was scratching himself due to parasites.

Also, newb question: I noticed yesterday he was opening/closing his mouth quite a bit, it looked like he was panting - if there were eggs, wouldn't he try to keep that closed? From what I've read online, it's sort of difficult to sex yellow labs, but Norman seems to have male markings (the black on his tail fin especially).

Could this vary? I'd be really relieved if Norman was female and just holding eggs, but he's behaving strangely... should I just leave him alone for the next couple days? Nothing like this has ever happened before, though we've had him at least 2 years.


----------



## normie (Aug 25, 2011)

Okay, I just looked at him more closely - could it maybe be ick? I'm noticing faded white streaks/small whitish spots on his fins, and he keeps scratching his body against the gravel. Gah.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

normie said:


> Norman seems to have male markings (the black on his tail fin especially).


Females can have even darker black marking on their fins. I think you mean anal fin...the tail is totally yellow.


----------



## normie (Aug 25, 2011)

Ah, this is good to know. One website said males usually have black streaks on their anal fins, which Norman does, so I assumed he was male.

Could it be possible that Norman's holding eggs AND has some sort of parasitic infection? He's behaving strangely, when he's usually a very lively fish - he's super smart and always acknowledges me, but is sort of just listlessly floating in place now.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes, it is possible. In another thread, you said you pried open her mouth and there were no eggs?


----------



## normie (Aug 25, 2011)

I haven't tried fishing Norman out and prying open his mouth, because I think it'd stress him out too much - his behavior hasn't improved and he's gotten quite skinny from not eating for at least three days. He's also been spending most of his time hiding in his little ceramic castle - he's usually in there when I check on him, and only seems to leave it to scratch himself on gravel.

Recently I noticed the pale spots on his fins have gotten more prominent (they're transparet and roundish and look like areas that have been drained of color) - he's also started to look slightly "fuzzy," which makes me suspect he has velvet. What with the lethargy, difficulty breathing, flashing - would it be a good idea to start treating with aquarium salts and copper sulphate?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It's almost starting to sound like columnaris which is very serious. Google columnaris to see pics and compare to your fish.

Put the fish in a hospital tank and treat with Maracyn and Maracyn2 simultaneously. Hope all goes well! :thumb:

By the way, it still looks like the fish is holding eggs, but maybe both things are going on.


----------

