# Julie Dickfeldi...dead after 1 hr in tank.



## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

I recently finished cycling my 20 long. I checked my parameters today and all was good. Ammo-0, NitrIte- 0, NitrAte 20, PH- 7.8 and Temp 82.

I headed to my LFS today and picked up 1 Julie Dickfeldi.

Once home I acclimate him to the tank water by floating the bag, adding a cup of water every 15 minutes or so, until I have added 3 cups total. The fish was in the bag for about an hour. Then, I released him into the empty tank (no other life). I left the lights off for the first 30 minutes, as he hid behind a rock. Once I felt that he was settled, I turned the light on.

With the lights on he slowly came out from behind the rock and explored the tank. Everything looked fine and I was pleased that he was enjoying his new home. Then, after about 20 to 30 mins after I turned the light on he began darting around the tank in a very spastic way. He shot to the top. Then down to the bottom. Then over to the side. Then he was kind of vertical and seeming to struggle to get his bearings. The he laid down and was kinda of twitching (like he was having a siezure or something). Immeditately drained and replaced 5 gallons of water in the hopes that fresh water would maybe help. Nothing..

5 minutes later he was laying still at the bottom of the tank. I poked him with the net to see if there was any life, but nothing. Into the toilet he went...

Im very dissapointed and feel bad for the little bugger. Any ideas what went wrong?


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## lorax84 (Feb 19, 2013)

Can I ask why the tank was set at 82 degrees? I keep all my tangs at 75-78, 82 is pretty high.

I can't really give you an answer as to why your fish died. It sounds like you did everything correctly. The temp was the only thing that jumped out at me. How long had our tank been cycling and how did you go about cycling it?


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## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

82 is just what I had it at while cycling. I had planned on lowering it. But honestly, I didnt think that it would matter at the moment.

The tank had been cycling for a month. I did the fishless cycle by adding ammonia (clear ammonia- Blue Ribbon). All the parameters were as stated above and gave me no indication as to why this would happen. Now, I did the cycle with 36 Escargot shells in the tank as well. They were boiled before I ever added them to the tank.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

It is very probable that the fish banged into a hard surface when he was surprised by the light or your movement by the tank. So sorry for your loss!


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## Vincenzo (Mar 6, 2014)

I am cycling a new tank now. Mine is at 85 degrees. You had no residual NH3 or NO2. NO3 was good. This may be stupid question based on the water condition, but did you stop NH3 addition 48 to 72 hours before adding the fish?

For a fish to die that quickly it had be something a level so high to cause an acute effect. Temperature maybe. Low dissloved O2. Did you have the filter running? You must have to get the nitrifying bacteria accumulating on the filter. That's evident from the NH3 and NO2 levels.

Unless it injured itself.

Let us know if you try again. Drop the temperature to 75 degrees.


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## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

Vincenzo: The filter was running for that entire month.

With regards to the last time that I dosed the ammo..well, it was definitely less than 72 hrs. Friday I believe that I overdosed some ammo. But by sunday morning my parameters were golden on the ammo. Sunday is when I introduced the fish.

I dont believe that it injured itself, as it actually came out from behind the rock it was hiding in once I turned on the light. It surveyed the tank and did some exploring for about a half hour before it "freaked out".

The temp has been dropped as of this morning. I will continue to monitor the parameters until I decide to introduce another fish.


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## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

If it helps, my GH is 9 and my KH is 7.


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## secondlaw (Apr 1, 2014)

Hi, this one was a wild caught? They are sensitive. They might be terrified by the light suddenly turned on.

Scared to death... some really happened, but rare.


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## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

Secondlaw: When I bought it from my LFS, it was happy and "healthy" in the tank there when I observed it.

It is not wild caught as the owner of the LFS stated that it was the offspring of the two larger Julies in the tank from which it came.


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## Vincenzo (Mar 6, 2014)

I think we can rule out the conditions of the water. Even if they were off you cannot get that acute of an effect on a fish.

Can you get a refund or replacement? Usually you get 24 hours.


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## aicardi (Sep 15, 2012)

Possible voltage leak from faulty heater?


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Do you use a dechlorinator?


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## lorax84 (Feb 19, 2013)

Vino said:


> If it helps, my GH is 9 and my KH is 7.


I don't know if this has anything to do with your fish dying, but you are probably going to want to buffer your water with some cichlid sand or crushed coral substrate. With a GH and KH that low, you are going o have a difficult time maintaining a basic ph.


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## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

Vincenzo: After I determined that the ittle guy was dead, I flushed him. I knew that I should have saved him and taken him back for a refund, but I fugured it was something on my end and didn't bother with the potential hassle.

Aicardi: Nope. The heater has been rock solid steady from the time I bought it, and all the way through the cycle. No problems there.

Joescaper: Always.

Lorax84: I already have 1/2 of my substrate Agronite(sp) and sand. As well as having a large piece of holey rock in there.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Heaters can work and still throw stray voltage. The symptoms you list seem to fit stray voltage.


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## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

lilscoots: How would I even check for, or prevent, that?

I really dont feel like throwing $20 dollars down the toilet every time I put a fish in there. I realize that I could swap the heater. But I really want to make sure this tanks is straight the next time I throw a live on in there.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Not my video:


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## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

That was helpful. Ill check it out for sure. At least one more thing I can eliminate.

In this really a common problem? The heater I have in the tank is only a month old. And its an Aqueon 50w. I have one in my 29g (for over 6 months) with not one issue.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

I don't know if many of us check this sort of thing so it may be more common than we think. I was just going on what you said, the water parameters were fine, the temp was a little high but reasonable, there were no other fish in the tank, and the fish swam around frantically before dying. The only other thing I see is the acclimation process depending on how long he was in the bag before that happened. It would be better to get the temperature within a couple of degrees and move the fish from the bag to the tank without adding water to the bag or adding the bag water to the tank.


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## Vincenzo (Mar 6, 2014)

Is your heater on a GFI? It should be. Any voltage drop will trip the GFI. If you do have the heater on a GFI, then it was an elecrical current in the tank that killed your fish.


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## Vincenzo (Mar 6, 2014)

TYPO:.......It wasn't the electricity

Sorry. Fingers faster than the brain.


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## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

Lilscoots- So you're saying not to even acclimate the fish? While *** done that in the past with no ill effect. This was only the second time I floated a bag, and added water in intervels, to acclimate. Im under the impression that it is important to make sure the fish is acclimated to PH, hardness etc via minute exposure, rather than full on exposure. (water added either through drip or cup vs. temp acclimation in the bag and then set free).

Vincenzo- Not sure what a GFI is. But I have all of my cords running into a surge protector/power strip.


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## lorax84 (Feb 19, 2013)

lilscoots said:


> I don't know if many of us check this sort of thing so it may be more common than we think. I was just going on what you said, the water parameters were fine, the temp was a little high but reasonable, there were no other fish in the tank, and the fish swam around frantically before dying. The only other thing I see is the acclimation process depending on how long he was in the bag before that happened. * It would be better to get the temperature within a couple of degrees and move the fish from the bag to the tank without adding water to the bag or adding the bag water to the tank.*


This is just patently incorrect. If you don't add water to the bag you risk the fish being shocked by wildly different PHs. The correct way to acclimate is to add water to the bag slowly, then net the fish out and into the tank. If you do anything else you are playing russian roulette every time. Fish can sit in bags for 4+ hours easily, with regular air and much longer with pure oxygen.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Depending on how long the fish has been in the bag....being the critical part of the statement there. If it's just from the fish store to home sure go ahead and drip acclimate, if it's been shipped or from an auction where it's been in the bag for a long time you'll ammonia burn them drip acclimating.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Sorry for your loss. My guess, given the available information, was that the fish was injured during capture or release. An acute internal injury could kill a fish after an hour or two with no visible signs of trauma. Rule out the stray voltage, bring a sample of your water for the fish store to test to confirm your results, and try again.

If a fish isn't under duress when I get ready to acclimate them, I pour the bag into a bucket, add Prime and start adding tank water, no more than 20% of the volume, every 10 minutes or so. Then, I scoop them out, never adding bag water to my tanks. If fish are having a tough time in the bag (after extended travel, eg) I'll scoop them right into the quarantine tank that I know has appropriate conditions.


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## Vincenzo (Mar 6, 2014)

GFI ground fault interrupter. You should have them in your kitchen and bathrooms. It's the outlets with the rest and test button. Anywhere there is water and electricity. It cut the current when you have a sudden divergence of current like a ground. Like electricity in water. The power strip only protects your equipment from sudden surges and you have a few outlets too.

Just replace your common outlet with a GFI


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## Vincenzo (Mar 6, 2014)

There is a GFI strip like the power strip you have except it has a GFI reset button. I think they are around $20. This way you don't have to switch out your outlet.


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## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

Thank you, Vincenzo.


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## miDnIghtEr20C (Aug 13, 2013)

lilscoots said:


> Depending on how long the fish has been in the bag....being the critical part of the statement there. If it's just from the fish store to home sure go ahead and drip acclimate, if it's been shipped or from an auction where it's been in the bag for a long time you'll ammonia burn them drip acclimating.


I bought fish off of Live Fish Direct and Daves Rare Fish, both sent me messages on how to acclimate the new fish. They both said nothing about adding water from your tank to the bag. They both said have the fish sit in the bag in your waters tank to get the temps right... then cut bag over open bucket, dump water in bag through net.. .net the fish, water goes in bucket, new fish in tank.

I think you're right about that scoots.


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## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

miDnIghtEr20C said:


> lilscoots said:
> 
> 
> > Depending on how long the fish has been in the bag....being the critical part of the statement there. If it's just from the fish store to home sure go ahead and drip acclimate, if it's been shipped or from an auction where it's been in the bag for a long time you'll ammonia burn them drip acclimating.
> ...


But what about PH shock? It seems to make sense to acclimate for PH, if nothing else.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

If the fish was only in the bag for half an hour I would just net it and toss it in the new tank. How different can the water be at your lfs?


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## Bugcrusher (Jun 30, 2013)

High temp means low Oxy.....maybe an issue from cycling?


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

It's not pH shock so much as a TDS problem... and that can vary greatly with the addition of a water softener on one of those water sources. The fish's osmoregulation needs to be in balance with the water.

With the fish I've transported and shipped, or had shipped to me, I recommend the bucket, Prime, mixing the waters, then netting the fish in to the tank. Though, I would trust Dave (Dave's Rare Fish) to give me excellent advice, but I've seen how he bags fish and know that he keeps his water appropriate for the fish.

All that said, I don't think we're looking at pH/temp shock, ammonia poisoning, or osmoregulation problems in this case. Same with low oxygen... Those types of death are slower and more obvious. I'm still betting on an internal injury for this poor fish.


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## Vino (Feb 25, 2014)

Thanks for the perspective, Triscuit.


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