# THE MEANEST FISH!!!



## sick_lids

IN YOUR OPINION, WHAT IS THE MEANEST CICHLID OUT THERE? JUST WONDERING! I VOTE JAG!!!


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## countrykat

Male Red Devil!!!!!!!! Will TKO any fish big or small. :thumb:


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## roman_back

hemichromis elongatus.. i had one and it killed 2 firemouths and almost killed one red devil


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## SteelFist

roman_back said:


> hemichromis elongatus.. i had one and it killed 2 firemouths and almost killed one red devil


The elongatus (5-Spot Jewel) you speak of, I owned one too and it was a beast. Definitely one of the meanest on a pound-for-pound scale. But it was no match for the Hornet Cichlid (2" larger) that shared the tank. The Jewel stayed as far away from the Hornet, who beat him down, forcing me to turn the Jewel of to the fish store.

That said, I vote Hornet!


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## SteelFist

But the meanest fish I've ever seen was not one that I owned, but someone I new. And it was a Managuense. Now I've owned several Managuenses before and they were semi-aggressive. But this one was absolutely INSANE!!

It lived in a 55 ga by itself. And this thing was biting at the glass and flaring the minute you walked in the room (20 ft away). I tried to scare it by looking down on it though the glass hood, and it jumped up and smashed into the hood. Scared the living **** out of me! I have never til this day seen any fish as mean as this one. Possessed I think.


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## roman_back

yes the 5-jewl was too mean for me i gave him to a friend that gave him to a friend that eventually flushed it down the toilet


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## aquariumjunky

Some flowerhorns can be very mean especilly tward the owners and couple tha twith large size.

But you know if your talking just badass I vote convict. They are one of the few fish that when mating seem to make just about anything even near it's size cower.

imagine a convict at 14inches? What would you consider more mean then that so pound for pound they are bad.

Steven

p.s plus they are really good at breeding for thier hordes to take over the world! Long live the convict army!


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## kaseahutch

aquariumjunky said:


> imagine a convict at 14inches? What would you consider more mean then that so pound for pound they are bad.


A 14" convict?
... Unless it's on steriods...


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## aquariumjunky

I was just putting thier "meaness" into a context where they might compete with a jaguar or other larger cichlid. Although they are not large for thier size I think they can be pretty dam mean to tank mates and imagine what they might do to something like a jaguar if they were the same size?

Steven


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## BigFish

Having mean aggressive fish is great..but its better to figure out ways to control them and make it work...a tank full of dead mutilated fish is sort of pointless..


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## Wallachia

I have too agree with BIGFISH.
If you have a extra very large tank laying around you might try to grow out a Nandopis Beani,
not an easy task,they need perfect water conditions or they will bloat.If you do suceed in growing one do not try to house anything with it,I have heard horror stories about what this fish can do.


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## Munky

I would normally suggest a butti or a jag, (pound for pound- convict), but i bought 10 tiger barbs as dithers a while back and i'm now down to one, really mean/nasty one, thats taken out all the others. Can't argue with that!


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## countrykat

Why do the topics always get turned around to "people are not taking care of their fish". The way I read the question is "In your opinion , what is the meanest fish" nothing was said about sticking a bunch of full grown cichlids in a tank and placing bets!! :-?

Still going with the Red Devil :thumb:


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## HanDsomB1derful

meanest fish ihave seen are segrogated(kept alone) snakeheads especially when hungry my freinds busted out the side of a six foota


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## Matt122112

A tetra :lol:


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## cole

I have had convicts kill JDs before. Just because they are not 14", does not mean they cannot kill a 14" fish. A breeding pair of convicts is likely to try and kill anything in the tank. I have not owned a red devil, but have had many Jags and JDs housed with convicts. With that said, my opinion is convicts can be the meanest, heartless fish.

Cole~


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## misplacedsooner

alot of fish can be very ornry if not housed in the proper setting, then of coarse sometimes you get that one fish that has big attitude and wants to try everyone. im almost scared to mix anything with my buttikoferi, he is currently housed with only a p. niger who is 15 inches and bulletproof. also my butti is a solid 15 inches.


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## kaphil

aquariumjunky said:


> imagine a convict at 14inches? What would you consider more mean then that so pound for pound they are bad.


Pound for pound - has to be Neets. I've kept them with convicts, which are roughly the same size, and the Neets always dominated. In fact they dominated everything, big or small. Best kept in their own tank, or a very big tank, IME.


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## convict daddy

red devils are crazy when i first got mine i bought three he killed the other two anything i put in there even common plecos he killed hes calmed down now but if you piss him off hee will tear you up *** bled several time cause of him convicts,jags wouldnt stand a chance a true devil,homicidal maniacs believe it


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## FiremouthShogun

I know it's not a cichlid but the Clarias batrachus is an absolute nasty thing


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## PuffTheMagicFishy

Also not a cichlid...

Pufferfish! I have a 2" homicidal maniac living all by herself in a 10. I would never let her near another fish, even a big one. She is incredibly persistent.


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## aquariumjunky

you know this is getting farther and farther off topic so I am going to throw out a couple!

First I know it isnot a cichlid but I bet a GreatWhite would rip anything apart!!!

Second I also know it is not a cichlid but my pitbull could take most if not all aquariumfish would probally eat up those 2"'s like candie!

ehehehehehehehehehehehe

Let the flogging begin
Steven


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## Jake Jackson

Pound for pound Convicts hands down. I've had a 1 inch convict attack a 4 inch Oscar, and try to steal food from its mouth. :lol:


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## mcmahon

female convicts with eggs is the simply meanest thing alive. she chases my other fish around and when attempting to clean the tank she will bite me.


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## trimac

Pretty much any cichlid is mean when it is breeding that is a given. I would say Red Devil and I am not just talking about aggressive I am talking about the ability to take a beating and still live and not have any scars. A year ago I had one in a 1000 gallon pond and it was the second toughest fish one day it killed my Trimac and Dovii then almost killed my 24 inch Clown Knife Black Belt and Escondido--Red Devils are survivors and that is what makes them number one!! My brother had one in a ice cream bowl for two weeks to try to teach it a lesson cause it was killing all of his fish--when he put it back it went right back to throttling everything in the tank!!


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## Nathan43

PuffTheMagicFishy said:


> Also not a cichlid...
> 
> Pufferfish! I have a 2" homicidal maniac living all by herself in a 10. I would never let her near another fish, even a big one. She is incredibly persistent.


You know I hear that all the time but I have two green spotted puffers who never bother any fish I have ever housed with them. I started them in freshwater with various cichlids and loaches but soon moved them to brackish setting with a scat and 5 mollies and not one chewed fin. strange.
Meanest fish I have ever seen was a Dino Eel I had that would sneak up through the brush and grab ahold of the other fish like a snake. It wouldn't usually kill them, but it would attack anything alive, some fish were were 3 times in size. I didn't realize this when I bought it as a little guy and I lost a german blue ram that way.
Might have to agree on the red devil. Mine is pretty docile compared to others, but the other fish in with it are alive because the devil allows them to be.


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## bernie comeau

I'd have to vote RD as well. RT is another one and trimac is also pretty bad-as$.

My male RD picked the eyeballs out of a foot long garfish. The garfish lived on, blind, hiding in the floating plants until the devil finally killed it. Being scared or nervous is not conducive to survival with RD. I think that is pretty darn mean, picking the eyeballs out of a living fish :lol:.

My female RD nailed an oscar from over 3 ft. away. Full blast, full speed, out of the blue for no apparent reason at all. Scales went flying in the water in all directions like you wouldn't beleive and it tore onto the flesh in one hit :lol:. This same oscar would try to show more and more belly as a sighn of its subordinate status and the devil would give the oscar a hard shot for that every time. My female RD ruled every tank she was in, with an iron fist (fin?). Pity the fish that dared to challange her and lose --- they would be on her 'bad list' for weeks or months!

Cons never bred in my tanks with RD. No doubt, ounce for ounce cons are tough. Cons, like sals are disighned to take on larger fish but part of that desighn is their small size. Cons simply don't have the bite. My RD could peg them off like nothing and they simply can't stand up to that. Actaually, salvini was, in my tanks , enough to stop cons from breeding eventually!


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## PuffTheMagicFishy

Nathan43 said:


> You know I hear that all the time but I have two green spotted puffers who never bother any fish I have ever housed with them. I started them in freshwater with various cichlids and loaches but soon moved them to brackish setting with a scat and 5 mollies and not one chewed fin. strange.


Personality varies by individual. :wink:

You know that your GSPs need to be in full marine by the time they're 4", right? They're euryhaline. Check out the Library at the Puffer Forum (link in my sig) for more info.


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## leesto

My f'ing convicts make me afraid to stick my hands in the tank. They usually bite me when I'm not expecting it or able to see them, making me smash my elbow into the center brace or the side of the tank. I'm so worried I'm gonna end up busting my aquarium from the inside out one day.


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## gage

my convicts are *******, i have a pair of pink and a pair of barred, both always get there butt kicked and they dont start anything


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## alaskan_aquaristJW

Jags are mean but so are elongatus 5 stars....i have an evil twin pair of 5 stars


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## Nathan43

PuffTheMagicFishy said:


> Nathan43 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know I hear that all the time but I have two green spotted puffers who never bother any fish I have ever housed with them. I started them in freshwater with various cichlids and loaches but soon moved them to brackish setting with a scat and 5 mollies and not one chewed fin. strange.
> 
> 
> 
> Personality varies by individual. :wink:
> 
> You know that your GSPs need to be in full marine by the time they're 4", right? They're euryhaline. Check out the Library at the Puffer Forum (link in my sig) for more info.
Click to expand...

I did not know that, they are 3" inches now, I read that they must be moved to full brackish and once introduced to salt, they can never be moved back to freshwater. Same goes for the scat as the age as well...


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## BlackShark11k

All fish are different.

One dovii may be more aggressive than another. In general though, I would have to say dovii or wild male Midas. As far as fish go altogether, I would have to go fahaka pufferfish or red snakehead.


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## bernie comeau

artemis1 said:


> All fish are different.
> 
> One dovii may be more aggressive than another. In general though, I would have to say dovii or wild male Midas. As far as fish go altogether, I would have to go fahaka pufferfish or red snakehead.


Very curious, Artemis1, have you ever kept a red snakehead with cichlids?

Myself and my brother, we have. And as far as I'm concerned a red snakehead is a very tough fish for a NON-CICHLID, but compared to CA their pus$ies. My brother had 2; one picked on the other so he gave me the smaller one. I had it in a 4 ft. 100 gal. with a female RD amongst other cichlids. Had it for close to 2 years and it got well over a foot long, but it got killed by my female RD. It got too scared and nervous too often to live with RD in a 100 gal. My brother had his for many, many years, first in a 6 ft. then an 8 ft. tank. It got well over 20" but was bottom, bottom of the pecking order. It did well, but was not very tough at all compred to his CA cichlids. During feeding time they go absolutely "nuts". Don't stick your hand in the tank during feeding time :lol: ; they got BIG teeth.


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## BlackShark11k

Again, all fish are different. My public aquarium had a three foot red snakehead that made every other fish with it stay away...my uncle had three when he taught biology, and he said, "they put piranhas to shame!" to quote him. However, just a few weeks after he got them, they were stolen :?


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## Vipernewmanhaas

Ok, First post WOO HOO!

Pound for Pound for africans, Melanichromis Chipokea...They are absolutley nasty! I've also seen a Kenyi get 3/4 eaten by an Oscar 10 times his size, wiggle his way back out of the Oscar's mouth ,and continue to whip the Oscar's ass to the point I had to actually quaranteen the Oscar so he could heal-up.


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## mrjjangles

In my opinion ranked from most aggresive...
-Nandopsis Beani
-Dovii
-Managuense


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## big-o

my vote would be other than my two jags who try to eat anything that moves that you put in there tank would be a oscar i once owned he kept going through the glass on the side of his tank after each time we got the glass on the tank a little thicker each time eventually when the glass was half an inch thick he couldnt do it any more besides i dont think he liked knocking him self senseless the stupid fish had to get stitches twice to close up the wounds he got going through the glass .


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## bernie comeau

I think we're sort of talking about 4 different things in this thread: Aggressiveness, meaness, capability/ability and toughness. All 4 of these can be somewhat related but really are different things. This is my list; how I see these fish:

Most aggressive: 1)auratus, 2)blackshark,3) butti,4) RT, 5)RD, 6)dovii

Very mean: RD, RT. Very inclined to kill sick, scared or nervous fish. Also does things that seem so uncalled for and apears to do it just for the "fun" of it.

Most capable/ greatest ability: Cons, and especially salvinis, are ounce for ounce very capable. But overall, a large male dovii or male jag is so fast and POWERFULL that pretty much nothing will stand up to a high speed hit from one of these brutes. There abilities are one-dimensional compared to Amphilophus but they pocess a "knockout punch". There are capable fish in every weight class, however. Pike cichlids are VERY underrated. They have the speed to absolutely "hammer' on things. Also have to mention RD, and also RT and Trimac, as they are ounce for ounce amongst the most capable.

Toughness - A willingness to sustain injury in battle. A willingness to take a beating. 1) Trimac 2) salvini 3) RD

Of course every individual fish is different and I have never kept umbies, banded jewels, neets, beani or black nasties.


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## BlackShark11k

So many opinions...i don't see tilapia butterkoferi as a terribly aggressive fish. Mine is chased around by all the other cichlids in the tank including a jack dempsey and marbled con wich are both smaller then him. He's not at the bottom of the pecking order, but fairly close. Of course, every fish is different. I've wittnessed jack dempsey attack and kill midas. But more often than that, the other way around. It depends greatly. Snakeheads are aggressive on the terms not against other fish, but during feeding time, they will fight for food visiously, attacking many things(including the wary hand...).


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## bernie comeau

artemis1 said:


> So many opinions...i don't see tilapia butterkoferi as a terribly aggressive fish. Mine is chased around by all the other cichlids in the tank including a jack dempsey and marbled con wich are both smaller then him. He's not at the bottom of the pecking order, but fairly close. Of course, every fish is different. I've wittnessed jack dempsey attack and kill midas. But more often than that, the other way around. It depends greatly. Snakeheads are aggressive on the terms not against other fish, but during feeding time, they will fight for food visiously, attacking many things(including the wary hand...).


Never said a butti was ounce for ounce that capable or all that tough. I don't even think it is the most capable or toughest Tilapia, but it is IME, the most aggressive Tilapia.

Artemis, maybe if your butti were boss over your JD and con, you would see just how aggressive they can be. What size is your butti? Or do you really expect your JD or con to remain dominant over it when it's a foot long or more?


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## countrykat

bernie comeau said:


> I think we're sort of talking about 4 different things in this thread: Aggressiveness, meaness, capability/ability and toughness. All 4 of these can be somewhat related but really are different things. This is my list; how I see these fish:
> 
> Most aggressive: 1)auratus, 2)blackshark,3) butti,4) RT, 5)RD, 6)dovii
> 
> Very mean: RD, RT. Very inclined to kill sick, scared or nervous fish. Also does things that seem so uncalled for and apears to do it just for the "fun" of it.
> 
> Most capable/ greatest ability: Cons, and especially salvinis, are ounce for ounce very capable. But overall, a large male dovii or male jag is so fast and POWERFULL that pretty much nothing will stand up to a high speed hit from one of these brutes. There abilities are one-dimensional compared to Amphilophus but they pocess a "knockout punch". There are capable fish in every weight class, however. Pike cichlids are VERY underrated. They have the speed to absolutely "hammer' on things. Also have to mention RD, and also RT and Trimac, as they are ounce for ounce amongst the most capable.
> 
> Toughness - A willingness to sustain injury in battle. A willingness to take a beating. 1) Trimac 2) salvini 3) RD
> 
> Of course every individual fish is different and I have never kept umbies, banded jewels, neets, beani or black nasties.


I see a RD in all 4 points you listed.


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## misplacedsooner

my butti is around the 15 inch mark and aggressive as all getout to me, i have a hard time doing maintanance to the tank as he wants to attack. he tries to attack my 17 inch p. niger cat but doesnt have success at that so he gives up. not as streamline quick as my dovii but so far more of a brute.


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## nothing else matter

a midas, my hornet jump out of the water trying to flee. but also bet on convict pound for pound


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## FSU96

Tilapia buttikoferi. I haven't owned one since the mid-1980s...and I still remember the male of a mated pair being absolutely FROM ****. I didn't give him time to kill my oscar, texas cichlid, jack dempsey, convict and other new world cichlids in my 125 gallon. But he would have. Within minutes of introducing the pair to the tank...it was absolute mayhem. He was attacking, pounding & biting everybody. So I re-introduced the pair - quickly - to a tank of their own. Let's just say that putting my hand in the new tank was never an option, unless I wanted to bleed. No other cichlid has ever come close to his fury. And I've owned some ****-raisers over the years and decades. Thank the Good Lord that those thinks don't get any bigger than they do!

PS Some of you who had good-natured ones MUST have had a female or a pretty non-standard male.


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## FSU96

As far as the meanest cichlid that I haven't actually owned: Nandopsis beani. For those "in the know" it appears to take the overall title for MEAN. If this thing is truly on a different level than buttikoferi...then I don't want one. Ever!


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## mleibowi

I've had a breading pair of jewels, jacks, and a red devil... all aggressive fish, but the meanest nastiest fish I've ever had come from lake malawi- psuedotrophus (sp) demasoni. These ******** will claim a territory and beat the **** out of any fish, demasoni or not that comes near.


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## ArcticCatRider

meanest fish i ever owned was a 9inch texas cichlid that whipped anyting, arowanas, red devils, oscars, midas,dovii,firemouths purty much all the cichlids.and i also had a mea3.5- 4lb oscar and a 5foot arowana and a 4.5footer.used to feed tha arowanas rats as bigger than softballs 1-8inche rats.


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## william polman

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned red terrors.


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## misplacedsooner

dang....a 5 foot aro eating rats..wow, silver im guessing


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## ArcticCatRider

definately a silver, a big one too. i loved those fish but they jumped up, cracked the glass lid and died on the floor. now we got a 16inch redtail cat.
he's beautiful, and if he don't like a fish or it's small he'll fight or eat it.
he usually sticks to the eating part, even, very surprisingly ate a convict pair, the male first, female a week l8r.also we have a dovii, no aggression yet, and some mean firemouths.


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## BlackShark11k

Wow...that's insane. A five foot aro. You must have a freakin' huge tank to keep all that, btw red tails get huge too.

Speaking of aros, jardinis have got to be up there as far as meanest fish, although def not at the top.


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## RickieH

The meanest cichlids I have had have been Hemichromis elongatus and the Amphilophus Trimaculatus for most aggressive and then a large male red devil and Amphilophus (?) Festae.

The meanest fish I have had were probably either the black piranha or the snakehead(O. micropelta).


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## blackgloves

I would think a mature male Wolf ciclid would own all. They get I believe 24 inches and are mean as ****

outside the cichlid family? No mention of the electric catfish? you startle it or attach that catfish and it will kill any other fish with its electric shock and make a person hit the floor


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## RickieH

because of its discharge of electricity was indeed strictly a one fish per tank fish but it wasn't mean. It was lazy and just sat there in the daytime not bothering the goldfish untill night time.


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## blackgloves

RickieH said:


> because of its discharge of electricity was indeed strictly a one fish per tank fish but it wasn't mean. It was lazy and just sat there in the daytime not bothering the goldfish untill night time.


yeah *** had regular catfish that you would catch from river or lake in a tank before and they do the same thing

the charge they put off they will kill or stun any fish. making them the ultimate defenders


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## SomethingFishy Inc.

My Turn!
A ways back I had a Large Wild Male Malawin Tyrannochromis that beat or Killed Oscare, Texas cichlids, BC's where the fish would nose dive into the gravel to get away! Needless to say he was alone for the rest of his life.

NOW!
I have the Emperors of Lake Tanganika (largest cichlid) They have eaten 6-9" Frontosa, Kendalis, etc..
I have one female about 20" in a custom 150 (48x36x20). A while ago I got in a Mean 12" nice lookin Red Devil. I also had return 3 times for killing everyones fish another, Tyranochromis male about 8" +. She let live a pleco and a syno cat in her tank. Well I tried to put both of these guys in at the same time and within a hour she about killed them! It was crazy! The RD tried at first but was no match for a Emperor! They are super fast and if they can not bite you in half they torpedo you instead! I had to take them out! She has bit or tried to bite us. I got mad one day after she about grab me so I went after her and slapped her around and grab by the head and shook her, now she leaves me alone at least. lol
I even tried to put a Lamp Gold Occelatus with a Pair in a 240 since it had a bad mouth. I put him w/shell behind some rocks figure no way they could catch this little guy. Next day the shell was move to the other side of tank and empty! Dont know how but they ate it.

I have to say Cons for the size can hang with the big boys. I have also seen Malawian Afra's take on big stuff for a small size fish.

I have also seen some past speakers at ACA/OCA w/ centrals jumping out of the water to bite a hand! I have also herd of some cracking glass tanks?

me dave

Oh Meanest fish non-cichlid I have met would be a Undelated Trigger! By far I would be scared of these boogers.


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## lil mama

I give another vote for the male Red Devil. Mine will jump out of the water to bite your hand!


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## mikeinco

I don't know about the meanest fish I've ever had but the meanest fish i currently own is a Chuco Micropthalamus. He is really evil too. He looks all sweet and cute till you go to add something to the tank and then all **** breaks loose. I remember when i first got him and added him to a 125 gallon tank and all the other fishes went ballistic all at the same time and started attacking him from all angles. I took him out of the 125 thinking those fish aren't very nice. Well it turns out those fish were just trying to get him before he got them. he's killed everything i've tried to add to his tank so he's a solo fish these days. Just evil. But you got alove him. He's accually my prize fish.


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## n0zqh

If I was going for just plane mean and nasty..... Parachromis Dovii


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## EBDEMPSEYDAN

Im new to this forum but collected cichlids for over 20 years now.
If your talking about fighting lip locking to victory as mean then you would have to seperate classes.
Small cichlid class up to 4-5 inches (neet,convict)
medium class 6-10 inches (jack dempsey,red devil)
large 10+inches umbie,dovii,beani,festae all full grown will tear most fish apart!!!

What I have personally seen:
neets beating 10+ inch oscars & other cichlids twice its size & beating a convict pair and ate some eggs after being brutally attacked by both so they get my #1 vote for small cichlid class.

9 inch jack dempsey beating the **** out of 14 inch jaguar 11-12 inch red devil & many others they get my #1 vote for medium class.

Large class is a little hard fights dont last long as blows are deadly but personally saw a 20 inch dovii kill a 15 inch butterkoferi with one strike that ripped half the side of his face off.
Butterkoferi are one of the most relentless fish you'll ever see when they have the upper hand but didnt even come close of making this list because they are just bullys and will just chase fish back and forth all day long.

I put umbie #1 because of the following the blue speckled freak of nature is not only one of the most beautiful cichlids alive but probably just about the strongest watched a 13-14 inch male rip a festae's lip right off his face after that I have to give them the #1 spot.
It also reminds me of a jack dempsey on steroids.

Worth mentioning not a fighter but when a fahaka puffer is hungry it will take heart shape chunks out of any fish no matter what size they normally do this with the lights out as they are nocturnal.


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## SickLidRAZR

snakehead would destroy any cichlid anytime anywhere


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## bernie comeau

SickLidRAZR said:


> snakehead would destroy any cichlid anytime anywhere


Then how come mine didn't even last 2 years; was ounce for ounce a total wuss compared to CA; got killed by a female RD and got scared and nervous every time it took a bite or hit from the RD? My brother's snakehead did better with CA in a larger tank; grew big but was equally wussy; bottom of the pecking order even though it had a weight advantage over most of the cichlids! I really wonder if these kind of statements are based on real life experience or just what we think the fish might be? I'm sure if the snakehead was large enough with huge weight advantage it might dominate over aggressive CA but of course that is not a fair comparison. Compare fish of equal weight and I just can't see how a snakehead is even worth mentioning!

Ebdempsydan, that's the exceptional JD that will defeat an RD. i would think most probably wouldn't. Especially the ones that are commonly sold today. The one's i had in the 70's were ounce for ounce, very tough. The one's I bought in the 90's, not very tough and the one's I bought recently in the 2000's, absolute gibbleds, that often hid and got scared for no good reason at all :lol:.


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## SickLidRAZR

bernie comeau said:


> SickLidRAZR said:
> 
> 
> 
> snakehead would destroy any cichlid anytime anywhere
> 
> 
> 
> Then how come mine didn't even last 2 years; was ounce for ounce a total wuss compared to CA; got killed by a female RD and got scared and nervous every time it took a bite or hit from the RD? My brother's snakehead did better with CA in a larger tank; grew big but was equally wussy; bottom of the pecking order even though it had a weight advantage over most of the cichlids! I really wonder if these kind of statements are based on real life experience or just what we think the fish might be? I'm sure if the snakehead was large enough with huge weight advantage it might dominate over aggressive CA but of course that is not a fair comparison. Compare fish of equal weight and I just can't see how a snakehead is even worth mentioning!
> 
> Ebdempsydan, that's the exceptional JD that will defeat an RD. i would think most probably wouldn't. Especially the ones that are commonly sold today. The one's i had in the 70's were ounce for ounce, very tough. The one's I bought in the 90's, not very tough and the one's I bought recently in the 2000's, absolute gibbleds, that often hid and got scared for no good reason at all :lol:.
Click to expand...

im going off what i know i know they are vicous i watched a snakehead enter a midas tank with 1 dominant male and the snakehead was just as long not as wide and it destroyed the red devil i know someone that brought juveniles into a tank with mature dempseys firemouths and a few others that were much bigger and at the end of 2 months nothing was left but the snakeheads that doubled in size nobody said anything about weight but if you want to bring it in a snakehead will grow larger than most CA'd yeah it isnt fair but the fact is a full grown snakehead would whoop that ass maybe there had been a few wuss snakeheads but *** never seen a snakehead go down unless it was vs. another snakehead this is more of an opinion poll though so dont take anything i say to heart beleive what you wanna beleive everyones gonna have a different opinion but if i was going to bet id put money on a snakehead


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## FiremouthShogun

:lol: :lol:

This subject always turns down this route.

Fish aren't mean that's a human trait.


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## bernie comeau

SickLidRAZR said:


> bernie comeau said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SickLidRAZR said:
> 
> 
> 
> snakehead would destroy any cichlid anytime anywhere
> 
> 
> 
> Then how come mine didn't even last 2 years; was ounce for ounce a total wuss compared to CA; got killed by a female RD and got scared and nervous every time it took a bite or hit from the RD? My brother's snakehead did better with CA in a larger tank; grew big but was equally wussy; bottom of the pecking order even though it had a weight advantage over most of the cichlids! I really wonder if these kind of statements are based on real life experience or just what we think the fish might be? I'm sure if the snakehead was large enough with huge weight advantage it might dominate over aggressive CA but of course that is not a fair comparison. Compare fish of equal weight and I just can't see how a snakehead is even worth mentioning!
> 
> Ebdempsydan, that's the exceptional JD that will defeat an RD. i would think most probably wouldn't. Especially the ones that are commonly sold today. The one's i had in the 70's were ounce for ounce, very tough. The one's I bought in the 90's, not very tough and the one's I bought recently in the 2000's, absolute gibbleds, that often hid and got scared for no good reason at all :lol:.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> im going off what i know i know they are vicous i watched a snakehead enter a midas tank with 1 dominant male and the snakehead was just as long not as wide and it destroyed the red devil i know someone that brought juveniles into a tank with mature dempseys firemouths and a few others that were much bigger and at the end of 2 months nothing was left but the snakeheads that doubled in size nobody said anything about weight but if you want to bring it in a snakehead will grow larger than most CA'd yeah it isnt fair but the fact is a full grown snakehead would whoop that ass maybe there had been a few wuss snakeheads but I've never seen a snakehead go down unless it was vs. another snakehead this is more of an opinion poll though so dont take anything i say to heart beleive what you wanna beleive everyones gonna have a different opinion but if i was going to bet id put money on a snakehead
Click to expand...

Funny many, if not most of the people that say snakeheads blah, blah, blah have never even owned one. More significantly most of these people have never themselves, kept a snakehead with CA for years.

My RD killed my snakehead. The snakehead was a large fish; well over a foot long. I don't make the equally rediculous claim that any cichlid or RD could destroy any snakehead anytime, anywhere because I know that it is not true. SicklidRAZR makes the claim that a snakehead would destroy any cichlid anytime, anywhere and that is absolutely untrue. The snakehead I had and the one my brother had are more then proof to me that this is absolutely false.

It apears to me, few people, at least on this forum, have actually kept snakeheads with large aggressive CA. I think it is more so the case of a fish being exaggerrated based on what somebody seen in somebody else's tank or even hear say.

My brother's and my snakehead were not even in the same league as a cichlid. Not aggressive, not tough in comparison, though they survived in tanks that few non-cichlids would have. My brother had his for many years; it got huge and he has an even lesser opinion of snakeheads then I do. My brother thinks cichlids like oscars, peacock bass, Petenia splendida would be far more suitable tankmates for snakeheads then aggressive CA such as Trimac, Jag, RD or large pikes. His opinion is based on many years of housing snakehead with cichlids.

Lots of conclusions can be drawn looking at somebody elses tanks. Lots of people have seen my fish and think piranahs are this and piranahs are that, and piranahs are all that even though they have never owned a piranah in their life or even CA for that matter. They see the missing chunks of fin on my CA and that is the only thing they see and the only thing that will stick in their head. The fact that the piranahs are boss over nobody, and are simply defending themselves from cichlid aggression is something that I tell them but something they cannot accept, understand or even comprehend! Yes, RBP are not always so timid, and they do carry a dangerous weapon, but they very, very rarely dominate over CA. And yes, despite the fact they are very sturdy they can even get killed in a tank with CA. But in the minds of many people, who have never kept piranahs with CA, piranahs are all this and all that :lol:

Go ahead and try snakeheads with large aggressive CA, yourself, then after many years you can draw some conclusions. IMO, based on my experience, and my brother's experience as well, snakeheads are very exaggerrated and have a reputation they do not deserve.


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## BlackShark11k

I wathed a video on youtube of a huge snakehead ripping a jurenese cat right in half  that was the same size!!!

Suprised no one's brought up aba aba knifes. They're wusses when little, but once they're over a foot, they kill anything near them!!!


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## trimac

Alligator Gar--will kill snake head cichlid catfish or human!! Period end of story at full size Alligator Gar are the king of freshwater!!! They make snakeheads look like feeder guppies!!
Snakeheads--whatever!! :lol:


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## BlackShark11k

Alligator gars are huge, but not terribly aggressive...they're only advantage is their size and rows of razor sharp teeth.


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## FiremouthShogun

I'll take a musky or pike anyday. Plus the tropicals won't live long in the ice water.


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## EBDEMPSEYDAN

Anyone that had or have these fish will agree dovii,jag, and other big mouth aggressive cichlids will attempt to eat many things mentioned below.
I havent had a snakehead, alligator gar, or baracuda or piranha for over 10 years now they are not territorial fish and not aggressive.
I watch my dovii attempt to eat snake heads, alligator gar and barracuda's he couldnt eat them because of their length but kept killing them by attempting to eat them.
They have long bodies but aren't that thick and my dovii acts like their a huge night crawler and grabs them up I seen it with a big jag also.
They need to be really fat if not they will be thought of as food.
The good thing about snakeheads they survive without water longer then any fish I ever seen I thought one got eaten before because I didn't see it.
The next day I heard some noise sure enough he was behind the stand flapping away.
I couldn't beleive he was alive and rinsed him off real quick put him back in the tank bam dovii grabbed him by his head within seconds, the snakehead was about 14 inches dovii was 12 maybe 13 inches at the time.
The snakeheads tail was flapping away he let him go snakehead went to the top corner of the tank dovii returned to his cave the snakehead swam towards the other side dovii snatched him up again but when he let him go again he was dead with most of his face missing.
All and all I like snakeheads as a kid I use to love watching them jump like 6 inches out of water to grab a worm from my hand entertaining fish just hard to keep with aggressive large cichlids.


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## trimac

Alligator Gars not aggressive? No not territorial but will try to eat and devour anything in its site--I have seen Gars try to eat Aros and Cats twice their size and one devour a snakehead--Dovii is overrated!! Right now my dovii is getting pushed around by my Trimac and Umbee--I have had many Doviis and have never seen the big deal--A full size Alligator Gar would either swallow or cut a Dovii in half--have you seen a Gars teeth?


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## BlackShark11k

yes, excatly. Alligator gars eat anything they can- but their not aggressive, they don't chase stuff around because they're interfering w/it's territory or fighting for it's young.


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## gage

bernie comeau said:


> SickLidRAZR said:
> 
> 
> 
> snakehead would destroy any cichlid anytime anywhere
> 
> 
> 
> Then how come mine didn't even last 2 years; was ounce for ounce a total wuss compared to CA; got killed by a female RD and got scared and nervous every time it took a bite or hit from the RD? My brother's snakehead did better with CA in a larger tank; grew big but was equally wussy; bottom of the pecking order even though it had a weight advantage over most of the cichlids! I really wonder if these kind of statements are based on real life experience or just what we think the fish might be? I'm sure if the snakehead was large enough with huge weight advantage it might dominate over aggressive CA but of course that is not a fair comparison. Compare fish of equal weight and I just can't see how a snakehead is even worth mentioning!
> 
> Ebdempsydan, that's the exceptional JD that will defeat an RD. i would think most probably wouldn't. Especially the ones that are commonly sold today. The one's i had in the 70's were ounce for ounce, very tough. The one's I bought in the 90's, not very tough and the one's I bought recently in the 2000's, absolute gibbleds, that often hid and got scared for no good reason at all :lol:.
Click to expand...

what kind of snakehead? i have my rainbow, its a wuss, but its living with my green texas, flowerhorn, convicts etc. but i have a feeling a giant snakehead would tear any cichlid apart, but just my opinion.


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## bernie comeau

artemis1 said:


> yes, excatly. Alligator gars eat anything they can- but their not aggressive, they don't chase stuff around because they're interfering w/it's territory or fighting for it's young.


Same thing with snakeheads. Grow them up with cichlids and you will find in the majority of cases they are not an aggressive fish. A large predator that grown up with tankmates is not that territorial. In fact, just like most fishes they are generally more aggressive towards there own kind. An aggressive eater, that's for sure :lol:. maybe the most so, as the fish can go absolutely "nuts" at feeding time. However it is not generally very inclined to fight or be territorial.

Of course if you keep a fish as a lone specimen and after it has been established for weeks, months or years and then try to add a fish to it's tank, many fish, including large CA, will kill the intruder. Snakeheads no different. Even my RBP which are not territorial in the same way cichlids can be, will attack an intruder and kill it, if they are given there own tank for months.

I would agree a dovii can be somewhat exaggerrated. Any of the large aggressive CA of similar size could defeat each other, depending on the individual, circumstances and age of fish. A dovii does take longer to develope then something like an RD and does not become what it can be until it is much older and larger. And of course a female dovii is usually nothing compared to a male.

Let's compare fish of similar size and weight. No doubt, with out this consideration, a large predator such as an alligator gar could devour any of the fish we are talking about.

Gage --- I'm not certain what kind of snakehead it was as that is 25 years ago for me. What I remember of it, it had some red on it. My brother thinks it was a giant snakehead and he may know better as he had his for many, many years where as mine didn't quite last 2 years. They were both of the same kind as my brother had purchased 2 and the larger picked on the smaller, so he gave me the smalller one. We are far from the the only ones to raise snakeheads with cichlids and find them to be fairly unaggressive and bottom of the pecking order. In fact it's only in the last few years that I learned they defend there young: something I really wouldn't have thought this kind of fish does. But then even RBP defends there eggs; again something I would not have thought these fish do. Regardless, most large predators are not aggressive and territorial like cichlids, nor inclined to fight and defend themselves like cichlids do.


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## EBDEMPSEYDAN

Well put bernie, my adult wild male dovii is viscious about 18 inches long and I dont beleive their overrated and haven't had much survive w/ him.

Also I can put him in another tank and he will get bullied for the first 2-3 minutes then the truth comes out and he over powers anything else my umbee is the only thing that compares.

When the umbee gets bigger he is going to probably beat his a-s thats why I ranked umbee over the dovii also it ripped a rt festae lip off.

People think because the fish has lots of big teeth they are mean and alligator gar is funny to me not sure how big they get must be 4 foot + to rip a dovii in half.

The one's *** seen and owned are nothing to talk about their mouth is so narrow they have problems taking down big gold fish let alone a dovii or any other big cichlid for that matter.

These are at up to 15 inch and never owned one bigger so I cant say beyond but my lfs has them in a tank that are about 2 feet and their kept with pacu's that are alot smaller.
Need I say more :thumb:


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## BlackShark11k

bernie comeau said:


> artemis1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, excatly. Alligator gars eat anything they can- but their not aggressive, they don't chase stuff around because they're interfering w/it's territory or fighting for it's young.
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing with snakeheads. Grow them up with cichlids and you will find in the majority of cases they are not an aggressive fish. A large predator that grown up with tankmates is not that territorial. In fact, just like most fishes they are generally more aggressive towards there own kind. An aggressive eater, that's for sure :lol:. maybe the most so, as the fish can go absolutely "nuts" at feeding time. However it is not generally very inclined to fight or be territorial.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what i meant. Not territorial or aggressive when breeding, but aggressive(btw, did you keep the red snakehead or a smaller ornamental species?)


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## bernie comeau

artemis1 said:


> bernie comeau said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> artemis1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, excatly. Alligator gars eat anything they can- but their not aggressive, they don't chase stuff around because they're interfering w/it's territory or fighting for it's young.
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing with snakeheads. Grow them up with cichlids and you will find in the majority of cases they are not an aggressive fish. A large predator that grown up with tankmates is not that territorial. In fact, just like most fishes they are generally more aggressive towards there own kind. An aggressive eater, that's for sure :lol:. maybe the most so, as the fish can go absolutely "nuts" at feeding time. However it is not generally very inclined to fight or be territorial.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that's what i meant. Not territorial or aggressive when breeding, but aggressive(btw, did you keep the red snakehead or a smaller ornamental species?)
Click to expand...

Yes, I beleive my brother is correct when he says it was a giant snakehead. I googled giant snakehead, and that is exactly what the fish looked like. Chana micropelte. It was striped when younger. It is also called the red snakehead. They get big fast. I also beleive that had my tank been larger that I would have had more longterm success as my brother had ---his cichlids didn't pay too much attention to the snakehead and only rarely chased it around. But in my case, in 4-5 ft. tanks, anything can be high risk with RD. I will be trying giant snakehead again in the 430 gal. I am building.


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## calichris

black pirhana?


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## BlackShark11k

Cool. BTW, male bettas are extremely aggressive to other male bettas and similar fish(especially the wild ones)


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## trimac

Alligator Gars can get to 10 FEET!!!! So yeah I think a 10 foot fish could rip a Dovii easily in half!! Bottom line is at full size an Alligator Gar will slaughter just about anything--I am ont talking about raising them as babies but having each specimen at full size and strength come on get real!! Andyes dovii is overrated I have had many and have never seen the big deal!


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## trimac

Eb--have you ever seen a full size alligator gar--they are like the great white shark of freshwater i considered getting one for my 1000 gallon pond but out of fear for my son or dog accidentally falling in i chose not to--yes these fish can kill humans!!


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## trimac

Also the alligator gar is one of the largest freshwater fish in North America. The average adult alligator gar weighs about 100 lbs, but may reach weights ...
www.mosportsmen.com/fishing/alligatorgar.htm - 19k - Cached - Similar 
Check out this web site!


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## trimac

Please check out the site and just by looking at the pictures you should get my point :lol:


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## sick_lids

oh yeah, a great white shark would kick a gars arse!!! come on folks, we are talking fish that you could actually raise, not in a pond, but in your house. when i posted this thread i never thought it would take a turn to gar and other freshwater monsters. i mean im sure some of these giant catfish in texas and oklahoma could swallow up a gar no problem, but that doesnt mean they are mean, they're just hungry. you could swim right next to a gar and it would never touch you, at least in my experience that is. i have done alot of swimming in the canadian river, north and south, and seen some pretty big gar, but never was i harmed by them. swam right by me! now if a cichlid got up to 7+ feet and you swam into his territory, he would shred you up, now thats a mean fish!


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## BlackShark11k

Agreed. The only thing on the gars size is their size and teeth.


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## sick_lids

i mean really, watch this! can you imagine a dovii or a jag that was 7+ feet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK9w1o2M ... re=related


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## trimac

Are you kidding me!!!!!! Come on Dovi don't get 7 feet were not talking about fantasy here we are talking reality and the reality is a full size gar would eat any cichlid!! and there is no freakin catfish in the world that could take a full size gar--did you even check the freakin site!! I thought the thread was meanest fish--not pound for pound but full strength!!
artemis--maybe that is all a gar needs--the only thing a lion has on human is claws and larger teeth!! Come on!!! Yeah pound for pound cichlids rule but I am talking about full size and strength!! Name me a freshwater cat that could eat a 10 foot Gar!!! Please!!
The only thing that would compare to a Gar would be a Arapaima Gigas maybe a Paroon Shark or Electric Eel!!


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## sick_lids

i know dovii dont get 7 foot, i was saying IF they did, nothing could take them! and as far as cat fish go, here some pics just for you! matter of fact i do beleive this first one was caught in texas. tell me he couldnt eat a gar!



















and this is the world record. caught in thailand, but could easily eat a 7 foot gar!


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## sick_lids

im sitting here arguing with a friend over this "gar" conversation. the point i made was, if a gar is swimming around in the lake, or river, and sees another fish, im saying if the gar had eaten and was full, he would not attack that fish for no reason.

now if a cichlid was swimming around in his lake, and has eaten and is full, and sees another fish, even if it was an alligator gar, he would definately attack and try to kill that fish.

in my opinion, i do beleive this makes cichlids "meaner" than gar. that is all i am trying to say here.

yes gar are vicious fish when hunting, but they will not attack another fish "just because". they can grow up to 11 feet, have razor sharp teeth, and are alpha hunters. they have no predators and are at the top of their food chains, however, that does not make them mean, that makes them the biggest fish in their food chain. these gar are all over the world, some weighing in at more than 300 lbs. can you imagine just for a second if any cichlid could get that big, the water would not be safe to go into, more less even walk by.


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## trimac

Wow--it would be wild if a cichlid could get that size and kind of scary--i do agree with you though cichlids pound for pound are mean fish--that is why i currently only have 3 cichlids in my tank and my festae is healing up in a 30 gallon tank! If we are talking down right mean I would vote on a Red Devil--in my pond he killed my Trimac Dovii Escondido and nearly killed my Black Belt and a two foot Clown Knife so yeah cichlids are psychos--one fish that equals that is a Hoplias Malabric. otherwise known as a Wolf Fish--mean suckers!!


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## TheFishGuy

Sorry to get off subject, but on the National Geographic channel is airing a few shows starting at 7:00 pm eastern New years day. The first show is fishzilla, snakehead invasion, then a couple of monster fish shows after that. One of the shows has the mekong catfish in it.. Just thought I'd let you all know to watch


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## gage

could u imagine an 11 foot convict, i wouldnt even go close to that water :?


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## 45206

IMAGNE A 11 FOOT GUPPY! :lol:

but i really think an 11 foot snakehead will be the scariest(or a clown knife)


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## cole

OMG!

My tetracanthis have gone nuts! 

Might have to call TFG for this one.

Cole~


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## big central

countrykat said:


> Why do the topics always get turned around to "people are not taking care of their fish". The way I read the question is "In your opinion , what is the meanest fish" nothing was said about sticking a bunch of full grown cichlids in a tank and placing bets!! :-?
> 
> Still going with the Red Devil :thumb:


at large adult size ill go with a wolf cichlids.*** seen full grown devils,midas.belts,trich's and manganeese which all grow well over a foot run and hide from these monsters.and until you see it you won't believe


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## gage

[email protected] said:


> IMAGNE A 11 FOOT GUPPY! :lol:
> 
> but i really think an 11 foot snakehead will be the scariest(or a clown knife)


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , i would want an 11 foot guppy in a pool in my back yard, that would be a sight to see.


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## SickLidRAZR

uj


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## SteelFist

SickLidRAZR said:


> snakehead would destroy any cichlid anytime anywhere


WHAT?? 

Sankeheads are a bunch of punks! I had one in a 75 gal with two Oscars....came home from work one day and the snake head was beat down. Had to take him to the store. I tried again a year later with a Texas, Jaguar and Jewel cichlid. Same reslut. A Straight CHUMP!!

The only time a snake head is remotely aggressive is with something small enough to fit in his mouth.....period.


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## TheFishGuy

Apparently you've never owned a large snakehead... They will remove chunks from fish, especially sleeping species like cichlids. When I say large, I'm talking a snakehead over 14"


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## staples2485

my male dovi is 28inches and i think he could take any fish or anyones hand!!!!


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## SteelFist

TheFishGuy said:


> Apparently you've never owned a large snakehead... They will remove chunks from fish, especially sleeping species like cichlids. When I say large, I'm talking a snakehead over 14"


You are correct. It was 7". But the Oscars were 6". I understand what you are trying to say. But I believe it has more to do with appetite than aggression. Biting a chunk off a fish caught off guard hardly qualifies.

Are you telling me that your 14" snakehead actually engaged in a fish fight?


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## TheFishGuy

Oh yeah..... very very aggressive fish....


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## Nathan43

As far as meanest fish, a betta takes the cake, as far as most powerful aggressive cichlid pound for pound, I would say electric blue johonni or convict.


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## SteelFist

TheFishGuy said:


> Oh yeah..... very very aggressive fish....


Ok. I guess the larger SH's are very aggressive then. I didn't know. My bad.


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## bernie comeau

SteelFist said:


> TheFishGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah..... very very aggressive fish....
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. I guess the larger SH's are very aggressive then. I didn't know. My bad.
Click to expand...

The one I had (Channa micropeltes) got well over a foot long. I had it almost 2 years before my female RD killed it. An aggressive eater but not much of a fighter at all. My brother had his (Channa micropeltes) for many years. It got very big, it may have been close to 2 ft. or possibly more. Again, it was an aggressive eater but not an aggressive fish in a tank with large SA/CA. Not much of a fighter.

Of course every fish is different and every situation is different. But still, it's hard for me to see the fish as very aggressive, other then it's eating behavoir. It may be able to take chunks out of a fish but that is from behind, from the fins into the the fish getting its mouth around something, just like a piranah. A scrap is very different: it's face to face or dead smack on a body. Whenever there was a scrap between CA and SH it was almost always very breif and the SH ALWAYS backed down right away or fairly soon. And very seldom do they stand up for themselves; they were seldom willing to get into a scrap with CA. They have a very fast growth rate and MAYBE growing up in a tank as a subordinate with CA that is older, MAYBE they simply accept their position and aren't willing to fight there way up the pecking order (?). I'm not sure but having had one for almost 2 years with CA/SA and also because of my brother's snakehead which he had for many years in a SA/CA community tank, I definately see SH differently then many others on this forum do.


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## SteelFist

bernie, our experiences are exactly the same. Except for the size difference.


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## sick_lids

i still think the dovii or jag are in the top probably 5! Cant forget those RD either!


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## n0zqh

For about 2 weeks my mateing convicts had my 9" jaguar pinned up on the right side of the tank. She got hungry for convict fry and daddy then got his a$$ whooped.
I've since then had to remove everything but 2 plecos.


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## TheFishGuy

If we talking pound for pound in cichlids nothing tops a male Kenyi. I had one in an 800 gal that was 6 inches and he ran the tank when he was put in for food :lol:


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## MontezumaManagua

A very aggressive pleco is unstoppable. I have a 14" common pleco that catches and eats live feeders. It peels the scales off my Green Terror and Jag. My jag is aggressive enough to attack the heater, water siphon, my hand, everything basically. The pleco still has his way with him, eventually backing both into the corner. HE'S GOT THE SUCKER LOCK ON, HE'S GONNA TAP OUT. I haven't seen anyone mention the UMBEE. Most people go Umbee, Dovii, Jag. I'd say from my expirience, other than my unusual pleco, the Jag is the most aggressive I've owned, but the Dovii's at the LFS by me are pretty ferocious. They've put 12"+ Oscars people brought in in the tank with the 3-5" dovii's, gotta be tough.


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## jsherwin4545

I have a 6" dovii. He's a bit shy and always hiding. I had heard about dither fish, so I thought I'd try a red devil to get my dovii to come out more. I bought a 6" red devil and my shy dovii went ballistic. I totally didn't expect it because, he's usually so skiddish around me. Two or three days later, now my red devil is dead. Dovii, just wouldn't leave him alone, he keep picking at him, slamming into him. I saw scales coming off sometimes. Does anyone know about dithers for dovii? Maybe a bigger Red Devil? I just put a large blue crawfish in and that seems to work a little bit. The dovii doesn't attack the crawfish, he just is very curious and just stares at it. Oh well. At least he's not hiding quite as much now.


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## dwss59

If the dovii was attacking the devil that badly that you could see scales coming off why did you leave them together????????? :-?


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## humorcrusadorJM8950

One of my tanks currently houses a nice collection of mean fish...
2 Black Belts
1 Red Devil
3 Red Terrors
1 Trimac
1 Female Convict
1 Jack Dempsey
among others...
No doubt about it I shouldn't have all these highly aggressive fish in one single tank! But so far so good as I haven't lost any fish in months. Red Devil is definitely the most aggressive of the group. In the past though, with my experiences the most aggressive fish I've had were FIREMOUTHS! I've had 2 and they killed countless other fish. I've vowed to never get one again!


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## jsherwin4545

dwss59 said:


> If the dovii was attacking the devil that badly that you could see scales coming off why did you leave them together????????? :-?


Good queston. A couple reasons I guess. One, ignorance. I'm addmittedly a cichild beginner. Two, I had been watching this forum for awhile, and from what many people are writing, my impression was that a red devil, being a very tough fish, could handle the pecking/aggression. But, I was obviously wrong. Not proud of it. But, what's done is done- unfortunately I learned the hard way.


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## crazycanuck

i have to say red devil,dey is meeeeaan mutha f*****s!!!!


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## dwss59

jsherwin4545
Fair play fella, got it wrong but have learnt.


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## TheFishGuy

> Good queston. A couple reasons I guess. One, ignorance. I'm addmittedly a cichild beginner. Two, I had been watching this forum for awhile, and from what many people are writing, my impression was that a red devil, being a very tough fish, could handle the pecking/aggression. But, I was obviously wrong. Not proud of it. But, what's done is done- unfortunately I learned the hard way.


This is called learning the hard way... which sometimes is the best way to learn.

Experience=Eduacated


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## trimac

I dont know about you guys but as of late my 10 inch Male Umbee has been on a major tear-attacks anyone who walks by the glass or attempts to put their hands in the tank-might be the most aggressive fish I ever had-I call him psycho!


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## cage623

I found this like when I was messing around online:

http://www.cichlidmadness.com/forums/in ... &f=1&t=581

It has a ranking of most aggressive cichlids. This is the list they had:

1.N.beani
2.C.Umbriferus
3.P.Dovii
4.N.Beani
5.Festae
6.Odo / Haitian cichlid
7.p.Motaguense
8.H.facsaitus(sp)
9.N. istlantum
10.Trimac 
11. Midas
12.Salvini
13.Grammodes
14.loisellei
15.chipokae

As for convicts I would disagree. I think they are some of the toughest cichlids I have ever owned but I wouldn't say meanest or most aggressive. My convicts seemed to only attack when they were protecting young or defending themselves. I loved my cons for their toughness but never thought of them as a nasty fish. My vote is the Umbee(Caquieta umbrifera). My friend had one and the thing cracked the tank one time just because someone walked by too close. That thing was MEAN! :thumb:


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## TheFishGuy

Can't believe Managuense isn't on that list....


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## trimac

cage 623-oh crude-my does the same do you think when it reaches 2 feet it might be able to bust my 240 gallon-i have heard of dovii doing that-by the way could someone send me a picture of n. beani-for as long as i have collected cichlids i have never heard of this fish.


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## cage623

I really didn't know much about the beani either. I looked it up online but didn't find too much and couldn't find a picture. Anyone help us out on this one?

As for your 240 gallon, you might want to get that thing insured before that thing gets any bigger! :lol:


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## TheFishGuy

My reference books have been lent out, but I believe there's a little snippet about n. beani in one of them.... I'll get em back soon.... hopefully :lol:


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## misplacedsooner

i also would of said dovii but my buttikoferi killed him while i was at work today, just snapped as he was subdominant to the dovii for 6 months. now im bummed as i just bought a new 220 for the dovii and now have no dovii.
mike


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## bernie comeau

Here is a link to a couple pictures of exCichlasoma beani.http://cichlidae.com/gallery.php?genus=exCichlasoma

They do have some distincly different regional variants that are colored differently. Breeding color as well, can be quite different. I do have a few pictures in books and can scan them and post them if anyone really needs to see different pictures of the fish. as of yet it has not been placed in a new genus but to my eyes resembles Amphilophus species.

Very sad to hear about your loss misplacedsooner. Your butti really is quite the brute. Nothing taking away from big Tilapias as they are incredibly tough fish in every respect, but it did have a very significant weight advantage over your dovii.


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## hypomelanisticbull

Neets, hands down.


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## misplacedsooner

thanks bernie, you are right about the weight difference, he is just massive. the dovii dogged him everyday if he came to that side of the tank. so i guess in my experience for MEANEST fish, a fish that can and will take a beating, then come back for more......buttikoferi !!!
mike


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## thegoodlife=cichlids

I heard midas' are really agressive.. so i got one...and my jack like owned it! so jacks ( at least mine) are verrry agressive!
(accept to my tiny baby turtle(half his size) they are so gentle with him! i don't know why! but its very cute!) :thumb:


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## fishman76092

Meanest cichlid-inch for inch-Hemichromis fasciatus. Meaner than elongatus and frempongi.

As for meanest overall-large male dovii or umbee at 20"+. Not much can handle that much girth.


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## blackhailfire

Hemibagrus wyckii
a.k.a Black Devil Catfish, Crystal eyed catfish, Baung Jaksa, EVIL

http://www.planetcatfish.com/cotm/cotm. ... cle_id=119

Compatibility

A lone predator, will attempt to systematically dismantle any living thing too large to be consumed outright. Some report successful combination with much larger fish, but this would require a public aquaria sized aquarium or pond, very risky in anything smaller.

Suggested Tankmates

None. Try it and you'll end up with one Hemibagrus sooner or later.


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## misterted

1st - Tilapia Buttokofferi 
2nd - Red Devil


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## blackgloves

for me so far its been a toss up between two fish

Id have to go with my Vieja bifasciatus


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## StillaZilla

Northern Pike :lol:


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## mok3t

Are we sticking to cichlids?

If we are, then i say cons. Purely for the pound for pound I've witnessed first hand.

If not, Tiger shark. Hands down


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## TheFishGuy

Guppy


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## jack lover

apistos ya jk lol


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## TheFishGuy

Female swordtail


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## dwarfpike

TheFishGuy said:


> Guppy





TheFishGuy said:


> Female swordtail


Gee, you'd think the mods should get on these types of answers from these clowns.


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## TheFishGuy

Neon Tetra


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## jack lover

white cloud


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## TheFishGuy

serpe tetra


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## jack lover

wow what mean fish on this page!!!


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## Hrafen

Neets. For a cichlid a bit smaller than Cons, these when breeding can take violence to new levels.


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## TheFishGuy

bristlenose pleco


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## chrispyweld

If we're not sticking to cichlids then why fish?
I had a blue shrimp that killed a 55g tank worth of everything I put with it. Ended up catching a NICE bass on it down at the pond. :wink:


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## TheFishGuy

black skirt tetra


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## josmoloco

Snail!


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## TheFishGuy

Snails are not fish.

Black molly


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## TheFishGuy

If the meanest fish is what you're after then this 56" 55 POUND pike eating the 36" pike while it's being pulled in by a fisherman would take the cake for meanest fish.


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## chrispyweld

I think that shrimp would've taken it.


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## Manoah Marton

Mosquito Fish! :lol:


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## josmoloco

gravel, driftwood etc.... :drooling:


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## jack lover

have you all ever heard of the killer guppy? ><> >-->


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## CichlidWhisperer

OK if you are going pound for pound, I would have to say gold occies. They are tiny, but the only fish that attacks me (to the point of blood if I let it).


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## josmoloco

‎Candiru (English and Portuguese) or candirÃº (Spanish), also known as canero or toothpick fish, are parasitic freshwater catfish of a number of genera in the family Trichomycteridae. They are found in the Amazon River and have a reputation among the natives as the most feared fish in its waters, even over piranha.[1] They are eel-shaped and translucent, making them almost impossible to see in the water. Some species have been known to grow to a size of 6 inches (~15 cm) in length.

The definition of candiru differs between authors. The word has been used to refer to only Vandellia cirrhosa, the entire genus Vandellia, the subfamily Vandelliinae, or even the two subfamilies Vandelliinae and Stegophilinae.

Candiru are parasites. Their ability to detect respiratory currents in the water allows them to swim into the gill openings of other aquatic species, where they feed on their prey's blood.

While the members of the subfamily Vandelliinae feed on blood, members of Stegophilinae may feed on scales, mucus, or carrion.

The fish almost "hunts" for its prey. The CandirÃº lies in wait at the river's murky bottom, searching for its next host by sampling/sniffing the water for expelled chemicals, such as urea and ammonia from the gills of other fish. Once having detected a fish in the vicinity, with a burst of speed the CandirÃº darts towards the gill cavity and lodges itself in place with its spines. Then, with usually fatal consequences for its victim, the CandirÃº begins to gnaw a hole towards a major blood vessel and gorges itself for no more than a few minutes. It will then dislodge itself and sink back to the river bed in order to digest its food and wait for its next meal.

Attacks on people
This fish is also known to attack humans and animals and swim into an orifice (the urethra, anus, or vagina). Because of spines protruding from the fish, it is almost impossible to remove except through surgery. Though there have been documented candiru attacks on humans,[9] there is no evidence the fish can survive once inside a human. The danger for the person lies more in the infection and shock that results from having the organism lodged in sensitive tissues for an extended period of time than from physical damage done by the actual fish itself.

The fish locates its human targets when people urinate near the fish. A well-circulated myth is that the candiru is capable of swimming up the stream of urine in mid-air to a victim standing on shore or a boat, although this assertion is false. Nonetheless, there was a case in which the victim claimed that the fish jumped while he was urinating thigh deep. They are also probably not attracted to pure urine. It is believed that they are able to enter a human urethra only when it is expanded during urination.

A traditional cure involves the use of two plants, the jagua or jenipapo plant (Genipa americana) and the Buitach apple which are inserted (or their extract in the case of tight spaces) into the affected area. It is thought that these two plants together will kill and then dissolve the fish.


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## chrispyweld

You win!!!! :lol:


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## TheFishGuy

I was waiting for that one...


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## CichlidWhisperer

That is simply disgusting...


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## PitBully

Betta


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## Norse76

Red Devil


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## homerl

Full grown flowerhorn[male],interactive with owners,but cannot tolerate any other fish


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## blackgloves

Aligator Gar

Nothing else comes close. It can grow over 10 feet long. Has a mouth like a alligator with sharp teeth. Has tough scaly skin too


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## Toby_H

I know a lot of really big dudes that aren't mean at all... even though thew are capable of hurting someone if they chose...

Are we looking for "the toughest" fish or the "meanest"...


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## TheFishGuy

Aligator gar would not be the meanest fish. Not even close... They're built for survival, not for domination.


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## Norse76

I agree, I watched on Animal Planet the other night the show "River Monsters". The guy was out to show if the Alligator Gar was a big of monster as people rumoured it to be. He concluded that it was not an aggressive species, and that it was rather shy.

Great show by the way, although he catches the fish with a fishing pole, it still a good show.


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## lam man48

wolf fish and the zebra daino :lol:


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## Bashiba

Without question Nandopsis grammodes.


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## mainganio

My friend has a neon tetra.

It must be on steroids or something because it ate every other fish in the tank including 9 other neons, 2 mollies, 2 clown oscars, 1 redtail shark, a bala shark and 5 platies one by one.


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## zambian

Jack Dempsey has the best personality, knows when to be nice and knows when to be an AH


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## Malawidolphin

My son's nasty blue Gourami. It was housed in my tank for a while and it totally terrorized my 3" Texas. I HAD to get rid of it because it was relentless, the poor Texas was hiding the whole time and that Gourami would look in every cave, nook & cranny until he found him.


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## garawsp

sick_lids said:


> IN YOUR OPINION, WHAT IS THE MEANEST CICHLID OUT THERE? JUST WONDERING! I VOTE JAG!!!


IMO, T.Buttikoferi... God I really hate this fish, he killed all my chiclid..!!! I mean the whole tank..!! :x

I started this cichlid thing somewhere in early 2007, he's one of four buttikoferis I got along with twenty other beautiful cichlids that now resting in pieces in his belly... :lol: oh, I forgot to mention three other buttikoferis, they got massacred too..

He came in 2 inches, and at 4 inches all **** break loose...

I got really dissapointed with this one "fish from ****"....sooooo dissapointed that I had to put him on my punishment tank...but guess what, he survived there :lol: and got really big....about 10 inch or so now... that crazy fish...aquarium monster..!!! :lol:

But it has been two years now and I started to like him... very hardy fish.. :thumb:


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## TheFishGuy

Size matters. I've got a 6"er in a 1500 with zero issues... We'll see what the future brings! LOL


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## Oscar Madison

countrykat said:


> Male Red Devil!!!!!!!! Will TKO any fish big or small. :thumb:


I have to agree. The one I had would attack the magnet cleaner. :x


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## Norse76

I may need to add my Jack Dempsey I rescued from a 20 gallon LFS tank. I brought him home to give him a good life....

He ate my tank.

:lol:


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## TheFishGuy

isn't it great how every cichlid is different. I've got a pair of jd that produce fry but I NEVER see them. In the big tank I've got a decent sized male who refuses to back down to any fish in the tank. Even the 22" giant goramy :lol:


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## coldpack

I'm new to the cichlid world but pound for pound i gotta say the Kenyi. I have 2 females and 1 male. The females are just plain mean, but the male is ruthless. It killed a Jack twice its size. I know i shouldn't have mixed but I thought the Jack could hold it's own since i've heard they are very aggresive. Thing is the kenyi's are only 2 inches long. I hate to see what happens when they get bigger. I also have 2 jewels and the kenyi's are not as aggresive towards them.

My vote goes for the Kenyi's. Anyone have any ideas for tankmates that won't get slaughtered please give me a shout.


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## Fishfeind

Simple... MUSKELLUNGE!!! If you don't know what a muskie is, they are close relatives to northern pike and reach lengths in the 50''s! the recod being 64". They are known to each fish cose to 1/2 their size.










put that thing in your tank! My FM would still prob. try to beat it up


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## Comic Sans

I think I second muskies. The largest are known to eat _adult ducks_


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## gage

LMAO...

back on topic with cichlids... my vote, 100%, goes to Super Red Texas, 10 times more aggressive then any Red Devil *** seen...


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## Comic Sans

In my limited experience, a male sal is inch for inch pretty aggressive..but yeah my (short-lived) regular texas was crazy. As soon as I gave him company he went _postal_.


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