# Salvini and firemouths?



## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

Hey guys - I'm about a week into my fishless cycle and am getting more and more stoked about stocking my tank.

I've done a little bit of research and understand the salvini's can be VERY aggressive but I was planning on introducing 6 of them and 6 firemouths into my 55 gallon once it's cycled. I'm probably going to get them from bluegrassaquatics.com because my lfs doesn't really stock too much stuff. I'm aiming for a breeding pair because I think it'd be a fun challenge to see how it all turns out. Plus I think if they are all introduced as young they might get along better.

Temp I'm lookin' at 78
pH 7.5
Hard water

What else do you guys recommend? Anyone who has owned either one or the other or both as a pair care to chime in? Thanks in advance.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

bwestgsx06 said:


> Anyone who has owned either one or the other or both as a pair care to chime in? Thanks in advance.


Well, I've owned both for many years but never kept the two together. So i really can't say either way.

When I first came to this fourum I argued quite extensively with an Eglishman about keeping the 2 in a 55 gal. He figured they(salvinis) would have more consideration for firemouths then convicts. Maybe. I know for a fact that salvinis are not like RD... they wll have consideration for weak or sick fish! Dithers was the question?? I'd go FM over danios or tiger barbs anyday..but I think most cons would be even better. IME a group of blue gourami or paradise fish would probably work best with salvini.


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

Salvini are one of my favorite CA cichlids. I have kept two breeding pairs of these amazing fish. As a single fish Salvini are not very aggressive. They hold their own very well but well tempered. As a pair they are lethal which for me is fun. I like both mild and very aggressive temperaments. I think it's sad that temperament defines a fish. What should define a fish in my mind is the beauty of it's own nature. Every fish is beautiful and special in it's own way and we should enjoy each of them with how they are.

If your goal is to have a pair of each in the 55 gal, I am sorry to tell you it won't work. Salvini WILL claim the whole 4ft tank not to mention you will find dead Firemouths in the end. I know there is a cookie cutter option on this site that suggests you can put a pair of Salvini and Convict in a 55 gal. This I totally disagree with. I had a pair in the 55 and a pair in the 40 gal breeder and they took over the whole tank easily. I wouldn't suggest to try a pair of each in a 55 gal.

For example here are some old videos of my old pair in the 55 gal. Which I miss very much :

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/ ... V01897.mp4

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/ ... V01885.mp4

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/ ... V01873.mp4

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/ ... V01863.mp4

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/ ... V01741.mp4

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/ ... C01707.jpg
Female w/fry picture

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/ ... C01530.jpg
Female w/wrigglers picture

I hope this helps!


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

CiChLiD LoVeR128 said:


> As a single fish Salvini are not very aggressive.


How the heII do you know, Cichldid lover? You had the fish for just over a year, if that!! For whatever reason you went through a number of females, for reasons undetermined. You never had a pair for more then 6 months. AND ZERO experience with the fish in a community tank! I have every one of your PMs to me, if you somehow disagree with this!!


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

CiChLiD LoVeR128 said:


> Salvini are one of my favorite CA cichlids. I have kept two breeding pairs of these amazing fish. As a single fish Salvini are not very aggressive. They hold their own very well but well tempered. As a pair they are lethal which for me is fun. I like both mild and very aggressive temperaments. I think it's sad that temperament defines a fish. What should define a fish in my mind is the beauty of it's own nature. Every fish is beautiful and special in it's own way and we should enjoy each of them with how they are.
> 
> If your goal is to have a pair of each in the 55 gal, I am sorry to tell you it won't work. Salvini WILL claim the whole 4ft tank not to mention you will find dead Firemouths in the end. I know there is a cookie cutter option on this site that suggests you can put a pair of Salvini and Convict in a 55 gal. This I totally disagree with. I had a pair in the 55 and a pair in the 40 gal breeder and they took over the whole tank easily. I wouldn't suggest to try a pair of each in a 55 gal.
> 
> ...


Awesome videos! But the last pic is definitely a texas with fry :wink:


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

bernie comeau said:


> CiChLiD LoVeR128 said:
> 
> 
> > As a single fish Salvini are not very aggressive.
> ...


Wow......what's with the attack? I have some experience with Salvini. You are right I am not an expert and I never said other wise. I have kept them as a single fish and you can't tell me otherwise because you have no clue what I have done. I have not kept them in a community this is true. I have kept a single Salvini with some target fish and even another cichlid and they all got a long well. I also got my information from researching. You have a lot of experience with Salvini and you have taught me a lot. For your information I did find out what happened to the two females that I lost and it was my fault because of old chemicals. I have mentioned this before. Apparently you don't have every information about me. Chill out man


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

Bernie, lighten up please.

....Bill


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

Chubbs the Jellybean said:


> CiChLiD LoVeR128 said:
> 
> 
> > Salvini are one of my favorite CA cichlids. I have kept two breeding pairs of these amazing fish. As a single fish Salvini are not very aggressive. They hold their own very well but well tempered. As a pair they are lethal which for me is fun. I like both mild and very aggressive temperaments. I think it's sad that temperament defines a fish. What should define a fish in my mind is the beauty of it's own nature. Every fish is beautiful and special in it's own way and we should enjoy each of them with how they are.
> ...


Thank you!  My bad


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

bwestgsx06 said:


> Hey guys - I'm about a week into my fishless cycle and am getting more and more stoked about stocking my tank.
> 
> I've done a little bit of research and understand the salvini's can be VERY aggressive but I was planning on introducing 6 of them and 6 firemouths into my 55 gallon once it's cycled. I'm probably going to get them from bluegrassaquatics.com because my lfs doesn't really stock too much stuff. I'm aiming for a breeding pair because I think it'd be a fun challenge to see how it all turns out. Plus I think if they are all introduced as young they might get along better.
> 
> ...


I'll vouch for Bluegrassaquatics.com It was just yesterday I received my 3 Thorichthys Aureum and 1 curviceps. All arrived in good health and are doing great showing comfortable coloration and natural foraging behavior. 
^^^ That said...

How the heII are ... er lol.. Why the heck are you getting firemouths?? The Aureums look 100% better.. IMO..








Grab one Salvini since they are good solo (My solo can support it) and 8 of the aureums. I've read info online that suggests Aureums can be kept in groups of 8 because they have little con-specific aggression. Having that many of the same kind of cichlid is two fold beneficial in a sense that they are cichlid and have the inherit intelligence of em and they serve the dither image because they all look alike.


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

hey hanks for all of the replies...

So you guys recommend just one of the salvini's and the rest firemouths? Or another version of Thorichthys... I'm trying to find out what I can stock together tho and what's locally available otherwise it'll be bluegrass getting my money.

Do the other thor's exhibit the same behavior as firemouths as far as flaring up goes?


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

You mean the gill flaring with the foward backward dance? My Thor Pasionis Does it and he's pushin 3"
see..








I catch My Thor Aureums, which are between 1.2" - 1.7" Flaring the gills a lil but not the whole dance i mean they are very little so..
>>








Better lighting and better camera could show all the colors that shine in person


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

How the heII are ... er lol.. Why the heck are you getting firemouths?? The Aureums look 100% better.. IMO.. ??? What does er mean?

And I meant moreso how firemouths bulge that lil red portion in their throats...

In all honesty I wanted a pair of salvini's more than a pair of firemouths but if I do get a pair they'll be the only ones in the tank? Will fm pair take over a whole tank? I definitely want a pair of something because I think breeding would be cool...


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

> In all honesty I wanted a pair of salvini's more than a pair of firemouths but if I do get a pair they'll be the only ones in the tank? Will fm pair take over a whole tank? I definitely want a pair of something because I think breeding would be cool...


A salvini pair will eventually be the only ones in the tank. As juvies they should get along but as they get older and spawn trouble is more then likely around the corner for the Firemouths. Sadly, I have never bred Firemouths yet. I have kept individuals but have never bred them. Like a lot of fish they all have different personalities. I have kept a Firemouth that was laid back and I have kept a Firemouth that was very aggressive. They say Firemouths are community friendly this can be true and not true. It depends on the individual. Really, any cichlid pair can claim a whole tank to themselves if they are just kept as a single pair and no tankmates with them. However, with some species like the salvini there's really no choice but to have a single pair per tank unless you have a very big tank. As I have stated I have never bred Firemouths but I have researched and from what I have found out is that you can keep a pair of Firemouths and a pair of Convicts in a 4ft tank. The only way to have multiple pairs in a 4ft tank is to puarchase them as juvies and at the same time. Then raise them up together in the tank. Also, if the tank is properly decorated to allow multiple pairs.

Breeding is very fun! Infact I don't get into community setups. All of my fish are kept in specie only tanks and all I do is breed fish :lol: .

Here is the definition for Er :lol:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/er


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

bwestgsx06 said:


> How the heII are ... er lol.. Why the heck are you getting firemouths?? The Aureums look 100% better.. IMO.. ??? What does er mean?
> 
> And I meant moreso how firemouths bulge that lil red portion in their throats...
> 
> In all honesty I wanted a pair of salvini's more than a pair of firemouths but if I do get a pair they'll be the only ones in the tank? Will fm pair take over a whole tank? I definitely want a pair of something because I think breeding would be cool...


er is like a written studder... but the statement started out as a mockery of another statement intended to make light and move back to the subject of the thread.

By gill flaring I meant the same as you mean bulge in the throat.
So yes, Pasionis and Aureum have shown this.


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

so pasiones, meeki, and aureum all do the same thing just firemouths have that deep red coloring in their throats? Sorry for the newb questions - first cichlids....


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

Never be ashamed to ask about what you feel you should know; everyone starts as a newb. I'm a newb myself in some areas (salt) and a experienced in others.

Yes they seem to have very similar behavior. From the literature I've read online.. The difference for Aureum is they have much less con-specific aggression and can be kept in groups of their own kind. For Pasionis, there have been reports about finding them (naturally) in very crowded areas with other cichlids, sometimes in ditches too.

So this, may be open to interpretation, but I take it as these fish have the potential to get along in more populated/diverse tanks and am testing the theory personally.

As many people like FM, its surprising I don't read more about people owning the cousins.


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

thanks for all the help - if possible I might try and get some aureums (sp) than and one salvini. I've got roughly 7-10 days left in my fishless cycle if the current nitrogen cycle stays good..


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

UPDATE:

I'm keeping my eyes out for some aureums in the local area, hopefully bluegrass will still have them in ~week whenever my cycle is done so I can order them thru there if the locals dont have any. I will also be getting one salvini and prepping up another tank either for a pair of salvinis in the future or if a pair of aureums pops up and harrasses the other fish too much.

Next question is should I have some sort of catfish or pleco to clean up the tank at all? I'm going to be introducing all of them at the same time... I have plenty of hiding places and would rather them all get in the water and situated at the same time. Plus they will all be young. I'm not sure if I should get any tetras or barbsor anything because I think with 8 juvenile thor's and 1 juvenile sal and 1-3 small catfish/pleco's i think that'll be a bit much... let me know what you guys think. THanks for the help so far!


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

In my crowded tank I had..

a large firemouth
3 inch HRP
3.5 inch Festivum
2.5 inch T. Pasionis
2.3 inch Bolivian ram

6 columbian tetras
8 harlequin rasboras

1 Dragonscale Betta

The numerous fish help to manage aggression. I never saw a problem between cichlid and smaller fish. The presence of another cichlid always takes precedence in my tank. I'd imagine you'd be fine with 6 - 8 columbians


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

what kinda bottom feeder? the sal's likely to pick on it a bit i imagine


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

I'd be personally daring enough to try a loach or two and see how it pans out opcorn:

Best bet is some sort of pleco. 
Perhaps a zebra pleco cause I want one.. lol


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

how durable are they? And aren't there sino cats or whatever that are from the same area as the CA's? I just don't want them getting tore up or anything ... I'm sure a bristlenose pleco would be good because they're tough but would I need like 3 or something? Thanks again...


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

Durable? Vary with loach type.. Only one way to find out.. lol 
But seriously I don't "know" just speculating with you on possible options besides the norm.


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## woaisqt (Oct 8, 2011)

Then raise them up together in the tank. Also, if the tank is properly decorated to allow multiple pairs.


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

DFISH - is that your HRP in your avatar?


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

yup that's "Teal"


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

I can't seem to find any HRP's anywhere otherwise I'd get a few for the tank. I just finished my cycle and will probably pick up about 5 thor aureums and the one sal. If I get another tank set up than I will get a pair of sals for it n try and breed them - they seem really cool.


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

I'll have some HRP fry soon one way or the other. My parents have a pair that spawned. Unfortunately my dad brought a fish home with ich. After quarantining all the infected (which died) come to find the new fry had it. So.. Quarantine them. Oddly neither parent had it. So when sure the crud is gone. I'll be taking one of the parents for the one I have and let them spawn, since my parents' 4ft tank isn't big enough for the fish they want and spawning HRP's.
If the ich clears all the way on the fry, I'll give you a heads up. Only reason I'm not more confident of the cure is they are under my parents care. (No offense, Mom)

Ironically I just traded my Salvini over the weekend with a local breeder for a Thorichthys Maculipinnis. Salvini was much more tame around my Africans of the past. When he went in with the CA/SA he only yielded the Thorichthys Meeki 3x his size and the rest of the 6ft tank was subject to harassment.. none got it as much as my beloved HRP; T. Maculipinnis is pretty tame with smaller tankmates hangin about..

















After some nutrition I'm sure those blue and red hues with sharpen up nicely


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

welp ordered 5 aureums, 1 sal, and 1 bristlenose from blue grass. They'll be here early next week - I just can't think if I should try and put anything else in...


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

prob not, that gamble is best when done all at the same time so none are comfortable in what they think is their territory. The stock you listed looks good for a 55 except maybe some dithers


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

I got a couple of days until the fish come in so I could always pick up some local fish and add them all at the same time - that's why I'm wondering if there is anything else I should look for locally to get when the shipment arrives...

As for dithers I was thinking some clown loaches but I can't find any locally, I'm pretty sure the auruems will stay mid to low and the Salvini will prob hide for a bit. Same with the pleco... Dithers - definitely need something fast and decent sized cuz I'm pretty sure the Sal will try and eat them.


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

I bet a school of Turquoise Rainbow fish would look good in there. quick, stay near the top and max out @ 4"


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

ya these seem to be bigger bodied dither fish so I'll look it. Thanks!


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

so bluegrass called me and switched it up - apparently they only had 4 aureums so I'm getting 4 aureums and 2 sal's and the bristlenose. Hopefully I get a pair of Sal's and can get another tank up quick enough to put them in...not very likely tho. I am going to pick up some rainbows from the LFS when the shipment comes in. DO you guys think I'm set or should I add anything (I've always been partial to Jewel Cichlids)


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## DFishFox (Sep 27, 2011)

just guessing...

Jewels would F your Aureums up.

I hope someone will correct me with my multiple flukes of some mean @$$ jewels.


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

So after blue grass switched up my order from 5 auruem to 4, 1 bristle nose, and 1 salvini to 4 aureum, 2 sal's, and 2 bristlenose, I was pretty encouraged.

Unfortunately 1 of each died on the way here - the others are looking healthy and I'm glad I went with the aureums. So I currently have 3 aureums, 1 sal, and 1 bn pleco in there - all very small. They are showing a very small amount of color on their fins but I'm excited for how they'll turn out - red tips on the dorsals and yellow on the bottom fins (i dunno what those are called).

I didn't pick up the jewels - I'm waiting to hear from bluegrass about what they want to do about this.

Depending on what happens I'll probably pick up a small school of some sort of rainbows so they can swim around the top of tank because the sal already does a bit of chasing which is fine - so far no battles or anything and it's cool watching them all sift thru the sand. Only thing is I'm also debating putting like 3 FM in their too - small ones so they don't battle it out too hard - just because I still am very partial to them. What do you guys think?


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## nishu (Oct 24, 2011)

I originally had a Green Severum with them in a 75 gallon aquarium but I've recently been noticing that both are a little too aggressive for him (biggest fish at the moment is 2.5 inches which happens to be Mr. Badass Salvini). Both the firemouth and salvini chased him around the tank and would nip his tail fin so I placed the Severum in my 55 gallon.


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

Ya - the Salvini (I think it might actually be a JD) is the biggest fish but not quick enough to do any damage to any of the fish in there. I just added 8 tiger tetras and 1 ~inch convict and am waiting for bluegrass to get back to me. How they would've switched a JD and a Sal I dunno, but that's definitely how it appears. I haven't been able to find many pictures of sal juvies but this "sal" in my tank definitely looks like the JD's at the LFS - same coloring, markings, etc...


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## isadorasarah (Oct 25, 2011)

DFishFox said:


> just guessing...
> 
> Jewels would F your Aureums up.
> 
> I hope someone will correct me with my multiple flukes of some mean @$$ jewels.


 :thumb:


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## bwestgsx06 (Sep 21, 2011)

Just wanted to give an update - after a very drawn out and VERY discouraging time dealing with bluegrass I finally got my real salvini in. At first I was discouraged because I received two male juvies and one of em killed the other on the trip out and they were both much larger than the fish I had in there. Also, the Sal had ich and I didn't have a good qt tank at the time so I was even more frustrated.

Fortunately for me I followed the heat and salt ich treatment method and it worked very well. TO have yet to see the sal chase anything except maybe the tiger barbs and I also have a new young pair of convicts in there who I've noticed doing some cleaning together. Well see if the plecos take care of those eggs or not and if they do infact lay them.

Right now I've got the tiger barbs two small convicts one Sal two aureums - anyone know how to sex them? - 3 bn plecos and a very small gt. its funny to watch the pecking order and I am constantly on CL looking for a 125 to use should that gt grow up - thnkfully they're slow growers.

I currently have a filter running on this tank to get bacteria because I want to start a 10gallon planted tank and breed some cherry shrimp. Should be interesting


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