# Should I rinse Eco Complete African Cichlid Gravel???



## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

*Hello..

Looking for some advice about Eco Complete African Cichlid GRAVEL. Anyone who has first hand experience with it, I'm begging for your advice!!

I just bought 3 bags (60 lbs total) of Eco Complete African Cichlid Substrate for my 55 gallon tank...I got the gravel; NOT the sand. The gravel is like crushed shells and stuff. Supposedly, it helps to "re-create the African Rift Lake environment".

The grain size ranges from 4 mm - 10 mm.

Here's a link to see what I bought http://liverock.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=3728380

The bags says "no rinsing required â€" packed in water conditioning solution for immediate results. Maintain the high pH African Cichlids need without the constant addition of chemicals. Contains live water purifying bacteria." However, the sand says that too and I have read many reviews from people that have used the sand and most say that a good rinsing really is recommended. Soooo, I am wondering if the "gravel" that I bought is the same way? Should I rinse the gravel before putting it into my aquarium? I can see that there are some very fine (sand like) particles that have settled to the bottom of the bags. Rinse or don't rinse?*


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

If it's live substrate you don't wash it. Washing it would kill all the beneficial bacteria. At least that's what I've heard. Never used that stuff...too expensive for my taste.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I have used the stuff. Do not rinse.


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## josmoloco (Aug 23, 2008)

Washing it won't hurt and depending upon how clean your sample is it might help reduce "foggy water" in the initial setup.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

> Washing it won't hurt and depending upon how clean your sample is it might help reduce "foggy water" in the initial setup.


Actually, yes, rinsing it does "hurt" in the sense that one of the things you are paying for with this substrate is active bacteria (why the substrate is packed in liquid) that enhances your cycle. By rinsing it, you are destroying that.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Thanks to all who has responded to my question already. The main reason why I asked was because at first I was considering the sand instead of the gravel - and like I stated in my initial post- I noticed a lot of people were complaining about the sand. I can't find any reviews on the gravel. I have read the sand reviews on several websites and most people are saying that their water stayed cloudy for weeks even with good filtration b/c they didn't rinse it like the company tells them not to. I don't want my water to be cloudy for weeks! I noticed the water that my gravel is packed in inside the bag already looks VERY VERY cloudy and almost white. I guess I'm just a little unsure if I want to dump cloudy water into my tank. There is sand in these bags too and I really didn't want any sand.


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## joker4466 (Oct 10, 2008)

whats the bag say? and do that


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## Heyguy74 (Aug 11, 2005)

I would wash it well. Although it says there is live nitrifying bacteria in there, how does it stay alive with no food for so long (weeks or months). Most likely the bacteria is dead in the bag. Rinse it well and you should have no worries.


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## John7429 (Apr 12, 2009)

joker4466 said:


> whats the bag say? and do that


obviously... :thumb:


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## Hawks (Feb 7, 2008)

You got bad advise from a couple of people here. More than likely they haven't even used the stuff. Do NOT rinse the gravel. Both the sand and gravel come with bacteria in the bag. One of the reasons the Eco sand and gravel are so costly is because of the bacteria...why would you wash it away? It does help in speeding up the cycling of your tank. I have the sand in my 180 and it worked well. The cloudiness will clear up in a couple of days.

If you don't care about the cycling aspect of the gravel, then wash it!


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Hawks said:


> You got bad advise from a couple of people here. More than likely they haven't even used the stuff. Do NOT rinse the gravel. Both the sand and gravel come with bacteria in the bag. One of the reasons the Eco sand and gravel are so costly is because of the bacteria...why would you wash it away? It does help in speeding up the cycling of your tank. I have the sand in my 180 and it worked well. The cloudiness will clear up in a couple of days.
> 
> If you don't care about the cycling aspect of the gravel, then wash it!


Hello,

Ok, I decided to NOT wash it. I put all three bags into my tank on Friday and today (Sunday) my water is crystal clear. I love the look of this "gravel". I don't think my water has ever looked more clear actually.


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## Matt1986 (May 15, 2009)

Good to hear, you did the right thing. I bought a couple of bags of the sand the other day and while my tank was cloudy for a day or two it settled down very quickly and is now cycling much faster than my other tanks have done.


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## Heyguy74 (Aug 11, 2005)

CutieSusieQ,

I'm glad it worked for you. Were you cycling the tank or just changing substrates?



Hawks said:


> You got bad advise from a couple of people here. More than likely they haven't even used the stuff. Do NOT rinse the gravel. Both the sand and gravel come with bacteria in the bag. One of the reasons the Eco sand and gravel are so costly is because of the bacteria...why would you wash it away? It does help in speeding up the cycling of your tank. I have the sand in my 180 and it worked well. The cloudiness will clear up in a couple of days.
> 
> If you don't care about the cycling aspect of the gravel, then wash it!


Please explain how the bacteria stays alive in a bag without any food for weeks or months. Its not supposed to help speed up a cycle its supposed to cycle the tank right away. The bacteria in a bag is a marketing ploy to sell gravel at a higher price. It is possible to get a bag with live bacteria if the bag has only been made a day or two before, but most bags areon the shelf for a lot longer than that.


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## John7429 (Apr 12, 2009)

Agreed. "live bacteria" that has PROVEN to work comes in refridgerated form (biospira). The stuff in the bag is hardly an instant colony of bacteria. Make sure you test your water for at least 48hrs before introducing any fish. NEVER just rely on a manufacturer... This does not take away from the fact that you don't have to rinse the product though. Remember that cichlids are pretty tough fish and the manufacturer knows this...

I always just dump the entire contents into the tank. However, I use a cycled/mature filter with any new tanks along with about 50% water from existing tanks.


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## Hawks (Feb 7, 2008)

Since I'm just someone who has used the product and not the manufacturer of it, I'll let you read the info from them. The info is right there in the middle-

http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/substrates.html

Heyguy, i would guess it would depend on how many fish you added to the tank, there would only be so much bacteria in the bag.

There are many other products out there which are not refrigerated that contain live bacteria. I just used Tetra Safe Start to finish off my cycling a 55 gallon I picked up 2 months ago. After about 15 days of cycling with fish my ammonia readings were almost gone (about .5 reading), my Nitrites were at 1.5-2.0. I needed to add fish to the tank so I gave Tetra Safe Start a try, it took 2 days, and my readings on both ammonia and nitrite were at 0. The stuff seemed to work well on finishing the cycle faster than it would have without using it.

If you don't believe in the stuff, DON'T USE IT!!!! If you have never used a product, don't post that it doesn't work. I have however had success using both the ECO and the Tetra Safe start. I'm no biologist, but they both worked for me! From what I have read on the Eco, as long as the bag is sealed, the bacteria stays. There are also many others under the review section that say the Eco worked for them. They all used the product as well, have you?

BTW John7429, adding 50% water from existing tanks will not help a new tank cycle. Bacteria does not float in the water, it grows on things such as your substrate, rocks/decor, heater, filters and anything that is in your tank. Using established filters is a good idea, adding the water itself is a waste of time.


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## John7429 (Apr 12, 2009)

Before this turns into an online pissing contest, allow me to clarify.

I use Eco-complete. I've purchased over 200lbs worth of this stuff so I'm definitely not against it.

My point was that I would not RELY on the bag's bacteria to set up a new tank. The stuff that I have used and has PROVEN its reliability to ME has been biospira. I have set up over 40 tanks in the past year, I would not risk any of my fauna to ammonia spikes whatsoever. Mind you, during a normal cycle, there are TWO ammonia spikes that usually occur. I'm sorry but, "believing" a product to work is sometimes just not enough...

Most people in this hobby are not too concerned with conserving water. If you're in California, like me, you'd know that we're in a water shortage. The reason I use 50% water from other tanks is to serve a double purpose. Water change for existing tanks and providing elements to the new tank. I make my own RODI water so my new water is always ALMOST pure water. There's no need to put in super clean/pure water into a new tank you're trying to cycle. Did I mention that the "aged" water was for bacterial puroses? No... I was just describing what *I* do. Using old filters is not just a "good idea," its the best idea. Adding old water is not a "waste of time," its a legitimate way of conserving my planet's resources. Bacteria grows best on porous surfaces... some decor and most heaters, do not cut it.

As I mentioned, the KEY is to check parameters for at least a couple days. Whether the product works as described (instant cycle) can be verified ONLY by the individual setting up his/her tank. Past experiences DO NOT change individual/unique circumstances.

Hawks: Is the 55g you purchased and cycled your only tank? Could it be that the Tetra product did indeed help your cycle but in actuality, the 2 weeks you've allowed it to mature with fish helped more? You didn't use the Tetra product as a stand alone element so its difficult to PROVE your point. Sorry.

Always err on the side of caution guys... nothing can replace good old water testing.


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## Hawks (Feb 7, 2008)

"Before this turns into a pissing contest", sounds to me your starting one later in your post. If you would/could read prior posts you would see that the Eco is in my 180 gallon. That would make at least 2 tanks John7429. I really don't think your 40 Beta fish bowls you purchased within the past year qualify as actual tanks.

The way the topic was and the way your post is it sounds as if your adding water from an established tank to speed up your cycles....that's the way I took it and it sounds. If you want to now say it's about conserving water, OK!

You sound so smart when you add that "bacteria grows best on porous surfaces" That is pretty much common knowledge, if your on the site much. However, it is NOT in the water John7429.

I come to this web site to try to increase my knowledge on fish keeping. It's pretty annoying when people try to act like they know it all and claim that products don't work when they haven't even used it before.

If you are that interested in my tanks, here they are- BTW, I would love to see your 200 pounds of Eco you have in a picture please! Post it when you get the chance.









My 180 WITH Eco sand and wet dry.









My 125









My 75









1st 55









2nd 55 with a 50 on top









fry 10 gallon









soon to be 3rd 55


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## John7429 (Apr 12, 2009)

Since the OP has been taken care of (the question regarding RINSING eco-complete) I will play your game Hawk. :lol:

Grab some opcorn: folks!

Preface: 
First of all, I would like to point out that almost everything you have said as a "response" has been through putting words into my mouth.

Main course:
(1) I don't have any betta bowls... it's quite mature of you to say something like that... :roll:

(2) I NEVER said that eco-complete did NOT work. My first post on this thread supported the idea of following directions. Nothing more, nothing less. My second post on this thread agreed WITH a PREVIOUS poster stating that the described bacteria in the bag is not something to rely on. My words EXACTLY were: "The stuff in the bag is hardly an instant colony of bacteria. Make sure you test your water for at least 48hrs before introducing any fish. NEVER just rely on a manufacturer..."

(3) In regards to using old water: I'm sorry that you got your panties all bunched up over this. I NEVER said it was for bacteria. ONCE AGAIN, I will reiterate: I was just describing how *I* set up a new tank.

(4) The statement regarding "porous surfaces" was not to "sound smart" as you put it, but to CORRECT what YOU said in the statement that "Bacteria does not float in the water, it grows on things such as your substrate, rocks/*decor, heater*, filters and *anything* that is in your tank" which is not far from the truth but deviant enough for me to think a correction was needed. Referring back to prefaced point that you've been putting words into my mouth... or keyboard... for that matter. You brought up the water thing AGAIN at the end of that sentence... :roll:

(5) We are all here for the purpose of gaining knowledge. I tried to aid in this endeavor by contributing my experiences. You decided to point me out BY NAME and attempted to correct me... when in fact, I never made an incorrect statement.

(6) I was never "interested" in your tanks. Again my prefaced point. I simply asked if your referenced tank was your first tank. I ask only because you made it seem like there were NO OTHER variables in cycling your newest edition. If indeed you did have previously cycled tanks, which you have shown that you did, my next question was going to be regarding how you cycled them... I never had interest in seeing your tanks... believe me. lol
I will say that those are very nice setups. I applaud you, if indeed they are yours. Its rather easy to just pull pics online and claim them to be yours... I'm not saying that's what you did (I know you would love to say that I'm implying that), I'm just not intersted in posting any pics of my own tanks because I'm sure you could say the same to me (again, I'm not saying that you WILL, but that you COULD). Simply put, my tanks are for me to enjoy, not to prove a point or show off.

Instead, I will offer some real references. I'm not sure how moderators will feel about linking to other forums, but here goes:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/itrader.php?u=14819
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... b&John7429
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... hp?u=38069
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/foru ... hp?u=19861
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/it ... hp?u=81013
http://www.scnrs.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4169
As well as others... but I think I've proven my point about references...

I know what you're thinking: John, that's mostly aquarium _plants_! We're talking about eco-complete! Yes, sir, but I just wanted to show that I have HUNDREDS of transactions related to aquaria and fauna. Its safe to assume that I know a thing or two about cycles... Believe me, many of these plants are more difficult to keep than fish!  But wait! There's coral too!?! Wow, John! Saltwater too huh? Yup~! :thumb:

If you REALLY want to probe my character, some cichlid-forum locals would have no problem giving their .02 about me... some screen names from this very forum with whom I've dealt with include (but are not limited to): CichlidLover2, blkg35, d8n777, lifan23, r13420 ......... While I know that most of these individuals are not active posters, they are active buyers and sellers here with whom I have met and dealt with on an interaction level, not just exchanged words online.

In summation: Thanks for putting words into my mouth so that you'll have grounds to be an online bully. 
"sounds to me your starting one later in your post" - where? I simply asked a question boss...
"It's pretty annoying when people try to act like they know it all and claim that products don't work when they haven't even used it before." - who? me? I never claimed to "know it all" nor that "products don't work" and in actuality, "haven't used it before" doesn't apply to me neither.

Please try to understand the difference between stating that things don't work and that one should not *RELY* on it. Would you argue that safe is not better than sorry?

I have nothing to prove to you but I have played your game. The OP has been satisfied and our dialogue was fun while it lasted. :wink:

I hope to see you around Hawks, your tanks are very nice and I would not be surprised if we have a transaction in the future since we're both into raising/breeding fish! :fish:

Did I miss anything...? How's the opcorn:


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Heyguy74 said:


> CutieSusieQ,
> 
> I'm glad it worked for you. Were you cycling the tank or just changing substrates?


I was just changing substrates. I used to have jellybean and blood red parrots in my tank but I moved them to another tank b/c I wanted to set my 55 gallon up as a Lake Malawi tank. I actually had purple crushed glass as my gravel. I bought it on eBay a few years ago. It was very pretty but I know it wasn't a good substrate for cichlids or any fish. I am going to resell it. I like the eco complete gravel b/c of the crushed shells; it's very pretty and it's good for cichlids. I have it mixed with a little sand.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

Calm the horses down, fellas!! lol....Wow, I asked a question and it turns into this. I wasn't even sure if anyone would respond, lol....

Btw, I really like my new eco complete gravel. And I know me-- if I would have bought anything else just b/c it was cheaper I wouldn't be happy with it, therefore spending more money in the future changing it yet again. I'm a picky person and spending a little more money on things I am confident about actually saves me money! Yup, it's true.

I got my gravel in my tank and now for the past week I have been searching for rocks and ideas about caves. I put flat rock in my tank the other day but I HATE it. Not gonna be happy until I change it. I have decided to buy some black lava rock (feather rock) for .70 cents a lb tomorrow. They rocks are huge so I will have lots of work ahead of me to cut them down and stuff....but at least I'll be content with them, ya know.

I really don't know why I am typing all this on here right now...I guess I am just bored. It's about time for American Idol to come on anyway soooooo ....see ya on the message board!


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## kvoytac (7 d ago)

Hello all,

I see this is quite old but I thought it might be helpful to read what I experienced in Jan 2023. The substrate looks great but when I cut the bag open there was water on top of the product that was literally chocolate milk brown! For me, I don't want to start my tank that way so I washed it. Sure it is a tradeoff but I would rather add bacteria than deal with that amount of discolored water in my tank.

Would I buy this again, for sure. Would I wash it before I use it, for sure


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Hello @kvoytac .
And, welcome to Cichlid Forum! 
-
Spot on advice! Yes, ALWAYS rinse out new substrate (whatever it is....), before placing it in the aquarium.


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