# Bolivian Rams - courting/pairing in a community tank?



## OliviaBolivia (Mar 31, 2011)

Would be eternally grateful for some knowledgeable helpÃ¢â‚¬Â¦.I have a 90 litre (23 US gal) freshwater tank, maintained at 25C/77F, with a pH of 7.5, and 5 KH, 10 DH. It is about half planted with Vallisneria spiralis, and has a dark sandy substrate with a few smooth stones and pieces of slate, plus bogwood dividing the tank into sections.

Stock consists of neon tetras, pygmy golden barbs, a few corydoras, an ancistrus, some amano shrimp camped out in the bogwood, and my pride and joy, three recently purchased Microgeophagus Altispinosa.

These three are only an inch or so long but do show quite strong colouring - IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve had them for about 10 days and so far there has been some generalised chasing/fighting over food and territory. I purposely got three fish, and the LFS tried very hard to sex them so I had a strong chance of having at least 1 male and 1 female, with a view to removing the eventual odd-one-out. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m watching them very carefully but honestly couldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t say if a pairing is imminent.

What should I be looking out for in terms of courting behaviour, will it be obvious? Is there anything else I should do? Does anything stand out here that I am missing or getting wrong?

Thanks v much!


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

The male should hover around the female, follow her. The female might beat up on the other female. It could take several months though for a pair to show up. Right now, they're trying to settle into the tank. You should see the rams split up--with the odd man out avoiding the pair.

If you search, there's a good article somewhere in this forum section on sexing bolivians rams (with good pics). I can't remember the title, or I'd find it for you. Was really helpful.

I once got two rams who had paired up the LFS ram tank. Once the fish guy snagged the female in the net, the male swam in with her of his own accord. --Just as an e.g.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Im my experience, Bolivians do quite a lot of chasing and sparring with each other -- and your tank is rather small, so I would expect that to continue. I personally never had any luck with Bolivians pairing off. I've had them two different times.

What I used, for what it's worth, to try and determine gender was "trailers" on the fins. The boys have longer, more pronounced trailers. But it will be awhile before yours show this, I'd think.

Keep an eye on them to make sure someone doesn't get really beaten up and that all have access to food. Also, I wouldn't think your shrimp will last long with the rams . . . .


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## OliviaBolivia (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi, thanks for the responses.....I've studied that thread re the sexing of rams at great length, enough to establish that my first attempt had failed as I had two mature males! They didn't get along at all......

This time I relied on the LFS, who did their best, but as these are quite small (perhaps juvenile?) fish their vents are not visible at all. I think they based the choices on the dorsal and pelvic fins, but to me they all look remarkably similar, and certainly they are not mature enough to show any elongated or trailing fins.

True my tank is not a sizeable one.....I am restricted by space and risk of marital ructions.  Perhaps I'll experiment with swapping them in and out of my little quarantine tank to see how each pair behaves without the gooseberry. There is often one following another in a lovesick fashion, but the pairing seems to rotate, meaning its never the same pair twice..... :-?

I suspect a little patience is required.  In the meantime everyone is getting their share of food....and the amanos, with the females being almost 2 inches long and terrifying, seem to be holding their own with the rams. So far anyway.......the males are a little smaller but tuck themselves away. The rams seem to show no interest in any other community member at all, they are only bothered about sparring with one another and avoiding the ancistrus......


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Perhaps they're to young to WANT to pair up yet? I don't know but thinking it's a possibility. :?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

I have five rams in my 40 gallon planted tank and just recently a pair has formed. They have claimed a flower pot in the back corner of the tank sheltered by some plants. I find that when a pair forms the female becomes more yellow than usual and showing brightly colored highlights on the fins; the male when older has more of a hump on his head and slightly larger. If you are wanting them to breed then I suggest getting some small pots and placing them in the back corners of the tank sheltered by plants.


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## OliviaBolivia (Mar 31, 2011)

I havenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t added any caves/pots as such, as I read elsewhere that Bolivians didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t necessarily use themÃ¢â‚¬Â¦..there are two or three sheltered and divided areas created by stacked up bogwood, and the back half is planted. Perhaps I will sacrifice or move a couple of plants and add a pot or two, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll look for some small ones.
I took some footage of them interacting last night, and my exceedingly novice guess is that I have one dominant male, one less dominant male, and a slightly downtrodden female.
Perhaps they are a little young to be pairing upÃ¢â‚¬Â¦.the female seems to be keeping a very low profile, going all coy and hiding away when one of the males attempts a sideways advance by bopping at her flanks. Maybe she canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t make up her mind!!
I could of course be completely wrong. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll upload the video asap so some more experienced Bolivian keepers can take a look for meÃ¢â‚¬Â¦..


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2011)

I would say use caution when having a 2male/1female ratio sometimes when a pair is "forced" the male can end up killing the female I would say try to add 2 to 3 more females so the male to female aggression does not put all the aggression on one female. With the pots even stones sheltered by low plants will work. Also make sure there are plenty of territories which you sound like you have a good lay out.


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## PanzerWels (Apr 8, 2011)

Any chance that you could pop back to your LFS and swap one of the males for another female?

BTW: You may want to add a couple of peices of slate pushed into the gravel so there is a slight slope on it, you could maybe even half hide it under a plant or behind some bogwood, it will give your fish a nice area to use as a spawn site  .


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