# Malawi bloat



## Bob19 (Mar 13, 2019)

I am just wondering if bloat is contagious, depends where you read you find different answers. I ended up losing my big male Snow White due to bloat and I moved him to a hospital tank yesterday and he didn't make the night. Now is my display tank and spare filter I put in there contaminated? Should I run it in say a 10% bleach solution for awhile then in clean primed water? Or just throw the media out of it? It's a multilayer sponge/media air filter. The display tank gets a 75% WC a week and so far he is the only one who has displayed bloat and they only get fed NLS algae max but there are about 10-15 smaller juvies that we're born and survived in there. I have a feeling he had a feast one night on one or more babies and couldn't digest it.

Fist time with bloat but worried about all my demasoni and snow whites in my display if it is contagious. Any words of wisdom or experiences would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Sorry for your loss!!

Is this tank still the 75G bow front? What is your current stock list as your earlier post listed 4 species that you stocked?

Can you post your water test results?

Are you seeing whitish, thready feces on any of the other fish?

I wouldn't worry about disinfecting the filter from the hospital tank since it was only in there a day or so.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

Malawi bloat is one of life's little mysteries. 
As far as I'm aware there is no real evidence to what actually causes this disease. 
I think the general consensus is that it is parasite. This parasite actually lives in the fishes intestine and if the fish get weakened by stress or other factors this parasite can multiply out of control and block the intestine causing the bloating. 
One thing I think we can say is too much protein in the food we feed is nothing to do with Malawi bloat, as long as it's off a good quality. 
As for it spreading throughout your tank again I'm not aware of any any real evidence to support this, however many have mentioned that when one fish becomes bloated days later another tank member does too ect. 
I guess if we treat it as contagious and treat the whole tank to be on the safe side. 
The earlier you spot it (fish hiding at feeding times, spitting out food, white coloured poo - the better chance of your fish surviving. 
Like you mentioned isolating the fish in its own tank is always your best bet. Many may disagree but once I've isolated a fish with bloat in my hospital tank I chuck the kitchen sink at it. Epsom salt straight in for a day, if on the next day they still won't eat I have had success with a 3 day treatment of esha hexamita. If that fails I try metroplex and if that doesn't work I go for Flubendazole. Those treatments have always helped my fish recover. 
As for my main tank I just dose with Epsom salt and keep an eye on things, if you do notice others with the same problem then you might have to treat the whole tank. 
As for your filter, I personally don't like to mess with bleach, just my preference - not a chemicals I want in my tank, just incase some didn't get rinsed off properly ect. When I had bloat I did have another sponge filter cycling that held a little media, I threw the media and sponges as it came with a duplicate set.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

One thing that I've witnessed as I'm sure others have too. 
Once the sick fish has fully recovered (I normally wait at least a month) and *** introduce it back into the main tank - within in week or so the same symptoms of not eating and white poo presented in the same fish. 
This tells me it was stress from the other tank mates as my water is spot on so is the food I feed. 
I took the fish out and it never went back into that tank again.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would verify that you have the white thready feces on one or more of the fish in your main tank, and if yes, treat the whole tank with metronidazole double dose.

Bloat can take a fish periodically until all fish are gone but it may be not so much that it is contagious as that all the fish are stressed to some extent.

If feces are thick and food colored (on all of them) and all are eating with every feeding and none are lurking under the surface or near heaters or filter intakes then look for symptoms of another disease.


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## Bob19 (Mar 13, 2019)

Deeda, yes it is the 75 bow with snows, demasoni and electric yellows. Water is all tip top with around 20 nitrates and 0 on the rest. I haven't been home long enough the past week to be able to see if any have white poop but when I feed them in the morn they all eat and keep it down.

After reading about how stress can be a factor, he was the boss of the tank until he got dethroned by my yellow male (don't think he's a pure yellow) and he did get beat up a bit but never thought anything of it because I've seen a few changes in who is the boss and everything turned out fine but coulda been this one time that did it to him.

Now for treating anything like this is a little tougher because here in Canada we can't buy the good meds (only herbal sh*t) but I did end up getting general cure some months ago but other then that it's good ol salt and hope.

Thanks for everything guys, I will keep an eye on the fish the best I can and hope it's only the one I'll lose.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Do the Epsom salt (not NaCl) and if anyone new stops eating watch for feces on that fish.

I would change 50% to get nitrate to 10ppm.

A 75G bowfront is 12" on the sides, correct? I would stock it like a 55G and 3 species with demasoni in a large group might not fit well. The demasoni are VERY susceptible.

No one is lurking?


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## Bob19 (Mar 13, 2019)

Yes it is 12" on the side. Think it technically is a 72g? But they will all be moving into my 125g in the near future once my fueleborni and red top albino zebras put on a little more size. I've definitely read about the demasoni being very susceptible to it but I think I've had the most luck with them so far other then losing two juvies in the first week when I first got them. But they sure know how to breed and their fry sure know how to hide.

No one is lurking more then they have before (I still have 3 yellow males all together) so it's usually just the smaller of the 3 yellows sometimes sticks around the heater or filter but it's not all day that's for sure. And I've never seen a demasoni lurk unless she was holding but usually finds a hiding spot to stick around.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If they have a habit of going there...watch them. It is never all the time. No fish chooses that spot...they are driven there.

What is the scientific name of the snow white? Unless all the fish are under 2 inches I would do the 125G now. Fuelleborni? Red top albino zebras?

I think we do need a list of species, genders and sizes.


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## Bob19 (Mar 13, 2019)

Albino socolofi are the snow whites. The fish in the 125 are pretty much there in size just a couple left to get there. I got them in January (marmalade fuelleborni (2 males, 1 is a M-cat) and red top albino zebras (not sure how many males yet) and 7 of each, 3 electric yellow from awhile ago that I saved. The others in the 75 are 6 (3 males at the time) electric yellow labs, about 20 (1 male right now I believe) demasoni now and only 4 snow whites left now (0 males)but I have 4 more growing up I've snatched from the display that are about 1-1/4 (not sure gender).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Too many males?


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## Bob19 (Mar 13, 2019)

Just of the yellows I do ya but when you live 2 hours from the nearest LFS it's tough to try and get rid of fish, and when you're the only one in a small town who has fish like this or a set up for them. I already have 3 Rubbermaid's going cuz I can't get rid of them and doesn't feel good to put them down just because you have to many. But yes I do only plan on only putting the big yellow in the 125 after. The fuelliborni are to cool of fish to get rid of since I paid an arm and a leg to get them here from Ohio. And they ended up sending an M-cat which are pretty rare I've read.

But other then that the stocking should work out shouldn't it? Not worried about breeding or cross breeding cuz I have a featherfin in the 125 growing out as well.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

8 Albino socolofi are the snow whites. 4 adults and 4 fry
7 (marmalade fuelleborni (2 males, 1 is a M-cat)
7 red top albino zebras (not sure how many males yet)
3 electric yellow 6 (3 males at the time) electric yellow labs
20 (1 male right now I believe) demasoni

I tried to make the list. I think you are going to find you have too many males. 2 male fuelleborni are likely to be a problem, and you want 7 females for each male. Not enough mature females to spawn among the socolofi. You probably have sub-dom males demasoni among your 20.

Go with the original advice for now. Do the Epsom salt (not NaCl) and if anyone new stops eating watch for feces on that fish. Eagle eye on any fish that lurks...ever.

Can you get a prescription from a vet if you need it for a real medication?

Who was chasing the fish that died? Who chases the yellow lab(s) that occasionally lurk?


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## Bob19 (Mar 13, 2019)

Ok, is there a difference between coarse (canning salt) and epsom salt? And what disease would you do with a rubber lip pleco in there? I've read anywhere from 1tbs per 3G to 1tbs per 2G.

No I can't get a prescription from a vet. Have to order it from the states and hope it gets across the border which isn't the end of the world but it's not cheap that's for sure.

My big yellow took over as the tank boss and pushed him to the one corner of the tank and I just imagine it was the yellows that were probably nipping at him but I never seen it cuz it either happened at night or when I'm not home.

Just the big yellow chases the other yellow males...haven't had to much problem with the demasoni going after the other fish.

And of the roughly 20 demasoni in there there are only 4 mature ones and the rest are still juvies. If they can survive and grow up with the big boys then they can stay with them too.


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## shiftyfox (Aug 2, 2019)

Yes, Epsom salt contains magnesium and sulfur. Don't use regular salt. 
I like to use 1tsp for every 5 gallons of water. I remove a little tank water to a container, let the Epsom salt dissolve and then add it back to the tank over a few hours.

What symptoms are your fish showing now, still not eating..? 
Thin white stringy poo almost knot like..?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Demasoni are mature at 1.5". Maybe rehome the big yellow?


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## Bob19 (Mar 13, 2019)

Alright sounds good.

I personally feed the fish 1 time a day and that's morning..the other two times are from an auto feeder. But when I feed them they all come and eat and keep it down from what I can see. Haven't noticed white stringy poo when I'm looking in the tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would stop the auto feeder and personally feed 1X daily. You need to observe all fish, all feedings since you suspect a problem and want to catch it before it becomes a problem.


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