# New Ramirezi, boring "how many" question



## Rift485 (Dec 3, 2004)

And a crappy pic to top it off!










I have a 55 gallon with 6 juvy Geo Tapajos (2.5"), 3 Bosemani Rainbows (2.5"), 2 Clown Loaches (3") and some neons. Today i added 2 young Ramirezi about 1.5" each and they both appear to be males. The Geos pay no attention to the Rams.

Just wanted to know how many more I should add. I was thinking I wanted at least 2 males to help bring out one of their colors to the fullest, but if removing the other males and adding only females is a good idea and can still bring out the best coloration I'm open to it. They don't bother each other too much now.

2 males 4 females? 1 male 2/3 females? What would be the optimum total number regardless of sex in a 55?


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Rams are a pairing fish, i would go with 2 pairs, make sure they are well bonded or the male will just kill the female...


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I've always read that Rams are pairing fish and that when kept in trios (1m/2f) the two females are likely to fight to the death...

Yet I hear people on forums suggesting trios from time to time...

The two times I've tried to keep more than one female with one male, the females fought to the death (actually once the weaker female was killed, the second time I watch close enough to remove the weaker female when I saw she would be killed).

I once tried to use a 55 gal as an Apisto community... but I endedup with one very aggressive male killing the other males and a few females in the process... a 55 gal just isn't quite big enough for fish of this size to life in a breeding community of the same species. I would expect the same thing to happen with Rams... (Note - I tried the same community in a 125 gal and it worked quite well for over a year until I broke up the community to use the tank for larger species).

If I were in your shoes... I would stick with just the two males, or trade one male for one female. Two pairs of Rams may work, but if you end up with a pair (or two) of Geos breeding sites will become cramped and aggression will be unavoidable.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

i have seen them kept in harems many times as well, but naturally they are pairing.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

gage said:


> i have seen them kept in harems many times as well, but naturally they are pairing.


have you seen them successfully kept in harems long term? and while breeding?

Personally, I have not. But my personal experience with Dwarves is still a bit limited.


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

When the orange heads are 6-7" long and breeding, I wouldn't want to be a blue ram swimming around in there...

It will be a long time until the Geos agknowledge the rams existance, but I can't see it working out long term in a 55. Toby is spot on with his concern for breeding sites, every inch of the floor space will belong to a male Geo.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

edburress said:


> When the orange heads are 6-7" long and breeding, I wouldn't want to be a blue ram swimming around in there...
> 
> It will be a long time until the Geos agknowledge the rams existance, but I can't see it working out long term in a 55. Toby is spot on with his concern for breeding sites, every inch of the floor space will belong to a male Geo.


Having kept orange heads in the past, I agree 100% with *edburress*. Right now all your fish are small and the tank doesn't look that stocked, but when your geos start hitting sexual maturity around the 4 to 5 inch mark, your rams will find themselves pushed to the periphery of the tank. Also you'll find all your plants being uprooted as the geos shift through the substrate.

In my opinion a 55 gallon tank does not provide adequate floor space for geo oranges heads, a 75 gallon would be the minimum size tank I would look at keeping two pairs in.


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## Rift485 (Dec 3, 2004)

Yes I'm perfectly ok with upgrading the tank size once they hit sexual maturity. Right now theyre still young and most only have a little bit of coloration coming through. I'm also not one of those types who will keep trying to make something work that obviously isn't. If it comes to a point a year or 2 down the road where I need to make changes for the safety of the fish I have no 
problem doing so. I do understand your concern though.

For now I'll try trading the 2nd male in for a female ( assuming I can figure out which one is female) and go from there. I think the Geos are still a year away from breeding at least so I have some time in between. Thanks for the advice!


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## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn (Dec 26, 2005)

edburress said:


> When the orange heads are 6-7" long and breeding, I wouldn't want to be a blue ram swimming around in there...
> 
> It will be a long time until the Geos agknowledge the rams existance, but I can't see it working out long term in a 55. Toby is spot on with his concern for breeding sites, every inch of the floor space will belong to a male Geo.


I never had a problem (though the eggs from the Tapajos never came to anything.) all agro was directed to other geos and the odd catfish if they came too close.


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## discusfreak2005 (Apr 11, 2005)

I bought 6 rams a couple months ago and they were in a 75 gallon. 1m/5f. I now have one pair left. Females realllllly don't like each other, even with seemingly ample space. Go with pairs, whether its one or two, as long as theyre established pairs and not jsut thrown together.


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## discusfreak2005 (Apr 11, 2005)

Females will almost always have some type of pink coloration on thier bellies whereas males wont show any.


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