# do rift-lake cichlids need rift lake salts



## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I use the Seachem Rift Salt (label says to duplicate their native environment) plus Seachem Cichlid buffer. Do I need to use the Rift Salt (which I assume has other minerals) or forget about it? I do use the buffer to maintain an even 8 ph.


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## Terrence23 (Oct 2, 2008)

hollyfish2000 said:


> I use the Seachem Rift Salt (label says to duplicate their native environment) plus Seachem Cichlid buffer. Do I need to use the Rift Salt (which I assume has other minerals) or forget about it? I do use the buffer to maintain an even 8 ph.


I'm curious about this as well. I don't use the buffer as I find keeping a mesh bag of crushed coral in my sump filter keeps my Ph well over 8.0 by itself. I do use the Seachem Rift Lake Salt though because I've read a few times here that cichlids will tend to flash a lot if the salinity isn't similar to Lake Malawi.

Please say if this is a myth! I'd love to stop spending the money on this expensive stuff since it takes a lot to properly dose a 135G tank every time I do a water change.


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## mittzgame (Oct 3, 2006)

Since you didn't say anything about them being wild caughts I'm assuming that most of your fish are tank raised and thus they wouldn't know the difference between lake Malawi and lake Michigan (except for the temperature of course!). Don't worry about salts unless you're using them for medications it's just one more thing that you're adding that could mess up by accident and cause problems. Simplicity is key to stability which is always safer and healthier than a constantly changing environment.

:thumb:


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I do not have wild caughts. But I also do not have a "constantly changing environment." I always add exactly the same amount of rift salt and buffer to each bucket during a water change. I understand the post about simplicity. But that doesn't really answer the basic question -- do rift-lake cichlids thrive more (be healthier, show better color) when there is a rift-lake mineral salt mixture in the tank water or is it just a marketing ploy by Seachem?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

as this was hijacking the NaCl question of the original poster, I've split off your question Hollyfish.

To answer you, I think you must know what your tap water and tank water had in there BEFORE you added more if you even wanted to begin answering your question.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

The need for added salts, really depends on what your water parameters are without other them.


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## Chris Murphy (Jun 24, 2008)

If I can jump in here and not step on anyones toes?

Yes they do need salts in my experience.My tap-water is high in pH,but that doesn't mean to say KH and GH are stable in anyway. Therefore salt additives are essential to maintain stability.

As long as the regime is kept stable your fish will thrive. Obviously each case will be assessed on its own individual needs,it goes without saying an initial water value of pH <7 will 100% require additives.

Malawis are said to be easy to keep,I disagree. Malawis are easy to keep badly,it is for this reason I recommend they be kept at the right pH,GH and KH which in most cases,if not all, can only be done by regularly adding salts.Too many people keep these fish in conditions that are detrimental,just because they can,which in fish-keeping is so wrong.

I hope this helps.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Chris Murphy said:


> Malawis are easy to keep badly,it is for this reason I recommend they be kept at the right pH,GH and KH which in most cases,if not all, can only be done by regularly adding salts.


 I was with you up until this sentence, and then you go straight for the overgeneralization.

If I have tap water with a pH of 7.8, a KH of 10 and a GH of 18, then what am I missing? 
Nothing... I have all the "salts" that Malawi fish could ever want.

So why add more to that tank?


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## SLIGHTLY STOOPID (Dec 23, 2004)

This is the kind of thing that is entirely up to the hobbyist. It's not really about need. If you want the best environment for your Malawis test your water and try to make up for what you are lacking if any.

If you really want to treat them right use only RO water and add supplements until the water is perfect lake water. This is a little extreme for me personally.

Do you need to use the salts? The answer is no. If you want to use them thats great. As Chris Murphy said many cichlids are easy to keep. I mean even Walmart "keeps" Malawis. There are a lot of or maybe even the majority of cichlid keepers just getting by with the minimum. Lots of people will tell you how colorful their fish are and how easily they breed while being kept in just plain ol' water.

It really doesn't matter if the fish are wild or not. Their bodies still function better when they are in an environment that supports their needs.


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## Fischfan13 (Jun 12, 2003)

I have always added Seachem salt.
I know people who only add Epsom salt and Kosher or Sea Salt, and I know people who do not add any salts...and all of their tanks look great.

It's up to you.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Thanks for the split into a different thread!

See, I'm still confused because every thread I've read about salt veers into a discussion of pH. I add a separate buffer to maintain a constant 8 pH (even with lace rock and Eco-Complete cichlid substrate). This works well and I don't intend to stop/change that.

I'm not adding salt to affect pH. I'm adding it to "mimic" the Rift Lake mineral content with some idea that this is a 'good" thing. I have no idea what minerals my tap water has and no idea what to test for or what would be ideal or not ideal test outcomes. I should add that all my fish are healthy and eating well with good color. So part of me says don't change a thing and another part of me (as I'm just about to place an online fish stuff order) says why am I bothering?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

hollyfish2000 said:


> See, I'm still confused because every thread I've read about salt veers into a discussion of pH. I add a separate buffer to maintain a constant 8 pH (even with lace rock and Eco-Complete cichlid substrate). This works well and I don't intend to stop/change that.
> 
> I'm not adding salt to affect pH. I'm adding it to "mimic" the Rift Lake mineral content with some idea that this is a 'good" thing. I have no idea what minerals my tap water has and no idea what to test for or what would be ideal or not ideal test outcomes. I should add that all my fish are healthy and eating well with good color. So part of me says don't change a thing and another part of me (as I'm just about to place an online fish stuff order) says why am I bothering?


My new favorite poster!!! Hollyfish, you are being precise in your question and I agree, pH may be related to the use of salts, but it is largely irrelevant to your question.

I have grown out many rift lake cichlids in water with a stable pH and at varying levels of total dissolved solids/ conductivity.

At very low levels of certain salts, death rates in fry and deformity rates in fry climbed very slightly.

The frustrating part, was that the increase was notable, but there were NO repeatable results.

So what level of say, Magnesium chloride was appropriate? 
I could not tell...


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## SLIGHTLY STOOPID (Dec 23, 2004)

Hollyfish it sounds like you want to use the salt to obtain the best environment possible yet are looking for a reason why it may not be necessary. There is no *intellegent* argument against using the lake salt and buffer. There is a lot of opinion though isn't there?

Do you know what the hardness levels of Malawi are? If you want to know you might be better off just finding out for yourself. 
The Chemistry of the African Rift Lakes

Malawi Cichlid Homepage article on Salt Mixtures

What Is the Chemical Composition of Lake Malawi Water? How Does it Compare with Lakes Victoria and Tanganyika?

:thumb:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The missing piece for me is: what trace elements are ALREADY in my water. Too expensive to find out, and I'd rather undertreat than overtreat.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

SLIGHTLY STOOPID said:


> There is no *intellegent* argument against using the lake salt and buffer. There is a lot of opinion though isn't there?


Yes there is.

AGAIN, additional salts would not be required if tap water exactly matches the water that the rift lake cichlids are collected in or if the levels of salt of tap water are well within the ranges for optimal health of a species.

Please do not insult others on this forum who do see valid arguments against additional salts in some cases.


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## corrie22 (Oct 11, 2008)

I have always kept my fish on about a .1% salt, not buffer, but salt.
I'm using up an old bag of Instant Ocean right now.

If I need to bump it up for any reason to .3% or higher, it's a easy bump.


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## SLIGHTLY STOOPID (Dec 23, 2004)

> Yes there is.
> 
> AGAIN, additional salts would not be required if tap water exactly matches the water that the rift lake cichlids are collected in or if the levels of salt of tap water are well within the ranges for optimal health of a species.
> 
> Please do not insult others on this forum who do see valid arguments against additional salts in some cases.


I didn't say anything about *additional* salts or buffers. When the levels are below that of Lake Malawi there is no intelligent argument.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

SLIGHTLY STOOPID said:


> there is no intelligent argument.


YES there is... and I have offered it. The whole point of this thread and the question from hollyfish2000 is that nobody seems to actually have a basis for the assumption that one "should" add more salts if source water has lower levels than the lakes.

All anyone has is assumptions... if you have a shred of evidence to back up the suggestion that source water must match rift lake measurements, then offer it since that was what has been asked for by hollyfish2000.

If you do not, then you are not offering an intelligent answer.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I went to the three links offered but, alas, none of them really helped me. Clearly, though, there are many things that I would need to measure in my tap to determine if anything needed to be added to match the minerals listed in the tables in those links. Since I'm not inclined to do that much testing, I've decided to assume that my tap water is NOT similar to Lake Malawi water and to assume that Seachem has made a reasonable product that probably works well in most situations and have re-ordered it and will continue to do my usual water change regime, which includes using both the Seachem Rift Lake salts and the buffer. I'm going to take an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach, especially since the $6 jar lasts a long time!


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

hollyfish2000 said:


> I'm going to take an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach, especially since the $6 jar lasts a long time!


Wise choice 

I use aragonite substrate for much the same reason and am happy that way...


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