# 180 gallon Mbuna Setup - Tight Tank Quarters



## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

I have confirmed that I have (just) the footprint to place a 180 gallon 72x24x24 tank in my home. The tank install is part of a much larger renovation of the main floor of our home, so I would appreciate your perspective on how you would tackle this project, as I can potentially do some low cost options now as part of the total install which would be cost-prohibitive or impractical to consider once the renovation is complete.

The tight footprint means that the left end of the tank will need to be flush with a wall (to a closet). The backside of the aquarium will need to be flush or within 1-2" of another wall. The right end is unobstructed. The left and rear walls by which the tank will be positioned are being rebuilt, and I have easy access to fresh water and a drain. For the overhead view think of a large letter L rotated 90 degrees with the top left of the tank at the corner of the L.

Objectives:

Provide a safe environment for the fish. Given access to water, consider continuous drip feed with water going through an easy-to-replace carbon filter (such as a fridge fresh-water filter). This drip system would also reduce the number of water changes I would need to make and provide for a more consistent chemistry for the fish.

Protect the house against an aquarium malfunction - ensure that whatever can fail will not lead to water being pumped on the floor.

Have a robust filtration system in place with some redundancy in case one filter system fails. Run a sump and canister in parallel?

Ensure sufficient flow within the tank.

Ensure that all of these items can be maintained or replaced without having to tear apart the whole system after it is built-in.

At this point, I am working with 2 LFS to get their perspective, but given the collective knowledge of the folks on this forum, I would appreciate insights into any "must-haves" or "must-nots" you have picked up over time. If any of you happen to have such a configuration in place with some drawings, that would be really appreciated.

Thanks for your help

David
dcheney888

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:24 pm
Location: West Linn, OR, USA


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Your best option in that situation would be to have a drilled tank and a sump filter in my opinion. You wouldn't have to worry about hoses and all that mess behind the tank with such little clearance. I run a 40 gallon sump on my 180 gallon aquarium with a canister filter intake and return in the return reservoir of the sump for a little extra mechanical and biological filtration. I'm also running denitrifying reactors and growing plants in the sump.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

I'm still learning, so pardon if I ask some obvious questions. With a sump filter would you normally have a canister as well?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Sorry I edited my response and answered your question lol


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I prefer to use my sump for rough mechanical filtration and mainly biological filtration so there's not as much restriction. You don't want to try to use fine filtration media in the sump because you'll be adjusting the flow constantly and having to change out filter socks etc almost daily. Leave that duty to an FX4 or something.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Thanks for the clarification. The designer I am working with said he could put in a washer box in the closet (opposite left wall of tank), or potentially do something in the wall at the back of the aquarium. With the attached drawing, would you think that the better placement for the washer box and drain be in the closet (for ease of access) versus something in behind the tank?

Finally, with this drawing, do you think my LFS folks should be able to give me the right recommendations for the drilled tank?

Regards


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I think it would be better to have it in the closet to be honest. You don't want to have any possible issues with plumbing etc that would require having to move the aquarium. You just need a standard center overflow with two drains and two returns. I paid $1200 for my 180 with beveled edges on the glass and glass braces on the top instead of plastic like some of the cheaper brands. Universal Rocks can make custom 3D backgrounds to cover the overflow etc...


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

I was thinking the same, access from the kitchen side if an issue happens won't be very friendly.

I was thinking of the 3D background as well. Would you also hide the heater etc in behind the background?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

You could hide the heater back there but it's better to just put it in the sump so water is flowing over it instead of creating hotspots.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Thanks. So almost everything in this arrangement is housed in the sump - canister filter, denitrification filter, heater. For the plants you have in your sump, do they need any light or grow fine in the dark?

Sounds like a pretty solid system you have in place. If that was all tied in to a drip feed system, would you be doing more than 1-2 water changes per month?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I have an LED grow light pointed at the plants and yes everything is housed under the aquarium. The only thing visible in the tank are the circulation pumps. If you're planning on doing a "drip system" depending on the rate you are exchanging water, it could be quite some time before water changes are necessary. Of course you'd have to run the water through a catalytic carbon filter before it goes in the tank to break up the chloramine molecules and remove the chlorine unless you have a private well. Also this is considering that your tap water is already acceptable for keeping Malawi cichlids, pH and kH wise...


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Yes, its public water so I would have it going through the carbon filter. I haven't yet checked ph and kH. I imagine I would keep these in check chemically, as the water changes themselves (public water for public water) aren't going to help here.

Thanks again for all the great advice. I take these threads and print them off to have a more informed discussion with my designer and LFS. Much appreciated.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Just make sure it's catalytic carbon because regular activated carbon can't break up chloramine.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Thanks, may have missed that point. As this would normally be set up on a very low flow stream from the house water supply, would it make sense to have an inline filter with catalytic carbon or have the water feed somewhere into the sump and associated filtration equipment? I had initially thought a simple fridge-like in-line system near the washer box would be easy to maintain / replace. Any suggestions as to what equipment or tie-in would work best?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I have mine in a fiberglass inline filter bottle with 1 cubic foot of catalytic carbon but I use it for water changes. I'm not sure how small of a filter would be sufficient for that low of a flow but I am sure you wouldn't need one that big but it definitely needs to be inline


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Or you could do a whole house filter. Who wants to drink all that chlorine anyway?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Yeah that's true but catalytic carbon is pretty expensive... I'd hate to have to replace it very often lol.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Speaking again to LFS, he suggested I have a cabinet installed over top of the aquarium to make it look completely built-in. I assume it will already be a challenge removing some of my excess males out of the tank, let alone access for cleaning the tank. If I have two doors that are each three feet wide that can be opened from the center of the tank, would that give me reasonable access to the tank? I am tall and long-armed, but there are limits ...

With respect to lighting, I plan to put in LED's. If I have cabinetry above the tank, do the LED's just lay on the top of the tank, or are they suspended from the cabinetry?

For the canister filter, if it is hooked up to take and discharge water into the sump reserve water, anything special I need to do to ensure minimum levels or is this something the LFS can easily address on the install. He was initially suggesting that I put the canister outside the tank and run separate lines up to the top of the tank. As I am tight for space, I prefer DJRansome's option of having it tied directly to the sump.

Finally, when considering the various pieces of kit drawing electrical power, do you tend to keep all the aquarium electrical devices on a single circuit breaker, or do you split some of your apparatus up to mitigate the impact of a breaker going off?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Your best option in that situation would be to have a drilled tank and a sump filter in my opinion. You wouldn't have to worry about hoses and all that mess behind the tank with such little clearance. I run a 40 gallon sump on my 180 gallon aquarium with a canister filter intake and return in the return reservoir of the sump for a little extra mechanical and biological filtration. I'm also running denitrifying reactors and growing plants in the sump.


I believe I was the one who suggested that you run the canister directly to the sump because DJ doesn't like sumps lol. To answer your question, you don't have to do anything special since the canister will only take out as much as it's replacing. I have a tunze ATO and it works great to keep the sump and display at the right level


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Haha - thanks Daniel. With my setup I think I have no option but a sump, and would prefer to keep everything consolidated under the cabinet, as much as reasonably possible.

Any advice on the electrical question - do you keep your aquarium on a separate breaker, or deliberately keep some elements on one circuit vs another to mitigate a breaker fault? For example, I could run my two heaters on separate circuits to ensure at least one is up and running if the other side trips. Of course, if the whole house trips, that's another matter but Portland, OR is pretty tame for outages.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I run all my equipment on two GFCI outlets that I installed with a surge protector/timer for all the lights. It's on the same circuit but different ends of the tank for convenience.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Another question / update:

I am looking at a 30" cabinet height (I am 6' 2" so I should be able to reach over the glass for maintenance without a step at this height). Even with this height, I will only have 9-10" of clearance above the sump walls as the sump must be raised about 3-4" off the ground to create sufficient clearance to run to a drain. Would 9-10" give me enough room to install and maintain the kit in the sump in the future?

Secondly, my LFS contact believes I would get much more value out of my canister (probably a Fluval Fx4) by having it run separate lines up the main tank, rather than the downstream side of the sump. As I am looking at a reef ready Aqueon 180 gallon tank that has multi-level water intakes, how much added value would I get out of the canister having direct access to the tank rather than indirectly through the sump?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Speaking from experience, you will be fine using your canister in the sump. You don't want to run hoses behind that tank with such tight clearances.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Thanks Daniel. Would the 9-10" of clearance over the sump give you any concerns?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

That's about how much room I have on mine and it can be a little bit of a pain to reach the back but overall it's not bad. I don't have issues cleaning the sump or anything.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I had a built-in look 520 gallon aquarium with a 250 gallon sump under it. Instead of hinges, I have used magnets near the top and some blocks the doors sit on. That way i could just remove them completely so they don't interfere with access. There was no top frame, bottom frame, or side frames, just door.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Thanks all. Met this morning with one of the designers working on our first floor renovation. He is learning a little on the fly as they haven't built a cabinet/stand to house an aquarium before.

Would a 180 gallon tank that will be placed on a 30" cabinet require a steel frame and 1-2 layer of 3/4" plywood (on top of the steel frame to distribute the load on the aquarium tank bottom)? 
If I place the canister (FX4) to take its intake and return to/from the sump reservoir, is there a specific height that either the canister and/or intake/discharge points must follow? 
I am confused on the top "canopy". On my previous 55 gallon tank, the top had a folding piece of glass to keep the fish in and evaporation down and the lights rested directly on the glass. I will be using LED's and would like to create a panel 8-12" tall that would give the tank a built-in look. In looking at the Aqueon Reef Ready Aquarium pictures, I can't tell if they have a glass cover to keep the fish in, and whether the LED's would be sitting on the glass, under-mounted on the false cabinet, max/min distance for LED's from water surface??? Does anybody use a large canopy that flips up to give access, or is it more practical to have a couple large wide doors?

It would be super helpful if somebody could send a drawing (or a link) of their cabinet and canopy, as well as a layout of sump/canister/denitrifier.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No. I don't like canopies and the outside can look however you want. But the frame strength and placement of support...see the video about building tank racks on Ted Judy's (famous fish keeper) 



. 2x4's under the corners are sufficient and make sure dado joints are used...don't have the weight of the tank hanging on screws.


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## Duzzy73 (Aug 25, 2019)

Hi there,

I just joined and am in the planning stages I am wondering how this build went below is the message I just posted there a marked similarity

"Hi there everyone,

thankyou for approving my membership.im (we) are returning to the hobby after a 10 year absence. We lost our Son and to be frank we quit life of hobbies and went into a coma, anyway suffice to say we are back enjoying life.

My beautiful wife said "why don't you get a Siamese fighting fish" .......this is what I heard "go nuts!" Hehe

I have a few plans and ideas for over the next 12 months to put a tank together I'm in the research stage previously we've had a couple of small marine tanks, we've bred a few Cichlids had a community tank even had a nice tank with co2 created with yeast so not all newbie but 10 years is a long time and tech has changed I'm thinking.

Having said all that the basics of my wish list has not plans have begun:

Tank 6ft(72")-182.88cm W x 3ft(36")-91.44cm H x 2ft(24")-60.92cm D probably drilled for intake and overflow

Sump with refugium of unknown size. Mechanical and biological filtration chemical filtration. Heating and pump. I'm thinking and researching constant water change system somehow. And Co2 with lighting over the refugium if we go the fully planted track.

My father is a retired joiner so the stand is covered I made most of our furniture as a wedding gift many years ago so I reckon I'm set that side of it.

Have a few questions are low iron tanks worth the money for any Australian Members and are they hard to locate? And anyone know of an online price list?

In a freshwater aquarium how far above the overflow should I go?so I can work out sump size.

I'm also wondering with a sump and overflow is there a way to stop flooding if for what ever reason the o/f gets blocked?

That will do for a start, I'm so excited to be back with imagination.

Thanks in advance 
Regards Darren"


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Sorry for the very tardy response. I have not been on the forum for a while.

I didn't actually complete this build as the cost of the renovation project (house proper) became cost prohibitive. Sold the home in late 2019 and moved to Bend, Oregon. Just started a new thread as I am building a significant addition to our new home where I can ensure I have adequate space for a large tank without compromises. If you are still interested in what I am working on, let me know.

Regards

David

David


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