# Too much flow?????



## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

So i have a 120G Mbuna tank with 4 canister filters.

Fluval FX5 - output pointed to surface
Cascade1500 - output pointed down towards middle of the tank
SunSun 404B - spray bar on surface
Fluval 406 - output pointed in middle on the surface

Now i have always been paranoid about turnover and oxygen and the agitation of the water surface but im wondering how much is enough in terms of flow to agitate the surface. My tank is 48x24x24 and so the only filter that agitates the water all they way to the front of the tank on the surface is the fx5. But even the smaller ones that don't have the water surface broken all the way to the front has some of the smaller fish in constant movement at the bottom as it rolls off the glass. Now most of my Mbuna would fall under the dwarf category so I'm trying to figure out how to provide ample filtration and agitation but slow down the flow in the tank. I can adjust the output on all canisters except the SunSun.

Im just looking for some guidance here and yes i know i could have probably bought an fx6 to replace 3 canisters but they were not all bought at the same time and i got the 406 recently of CL because it was stupid cheap ($50) and brand new.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Add up the total GPH from all devices. You can google the GPH if you don't have paperwork for all the units. I don't like to exceed 10X hourly. Sounds like a lot of filters...why so many?


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

Cascade 1500 - 350gph
Sunsun 404B - 525gph
Fluval 406 - 383 gph
Fluval Fx5 - 925 gph

Well everything I have read says you can never have too much filtration and it seemed when I had just 2 canisters that the fish would just constantly looked like they're were breathing heavy but no one was stressed from chasing or anything else.

I got the fx5 in a trade I did so I definitely wanted to hook that up. 2 of the filters are only used for mechanical and biological filtration. Now I know the numbers are factory numbers with no media in them. So 2203 gph total from the numbers I posted.

Now why do you only 10x more? Is more than 10x just not needed or is it actually counter productive?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have 8X in my larger tanks and even then some of the smaller fish look tired sometimes swimming in the current.

I think "you can't have too much filtration" is chanted when a manufacturer says a filter with 4X is sufficient.


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## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

honestly i wouldn't be surprised if just the FX5 alone would be fine for that 120g....

but i mean, that seems like a ridiculous amount of filters. not just for flow but think about your power bill too. You probably have close to 1000gph too much flow. I'd keep the fx5 and maybe one other canister on there and call it done.

did you test the parameters when the fish were seeming stressed? Anything off?

More than 10x is actually potentially stressful to the fish, you don't want it to be a wave pool in there. Imagine if you were stuck running on a treadmill all day.

It's not about too much filtration most of the time it's more about too much flow. Practically speaking, you can't have too much filtration most of the time. You can have too much flow though

if you have dead spots in the tank, consider a powerhead or something instead to agitate the water.


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

It's not do much about dead spots as I have so much rock that I would need tons of power heads to move it all.

I thought I read somewhere that if you can see clearly from the top of the water then the surface is not being agitated enough.

No parameters are always normal 0a 0ni less than 10na

Does anyone know of a video or can someone show me what the surface should look like?


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## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

Could consider a maxspect gyre. Those things will literally create almost a current through the entire tank....they're really meant for saltwater tanks though, not cheap either, but they intrigue me big time. It's been a thought anyway.

btw my tank is also 120g 4x2x2, but I have a sump w/a fluval sp4. it's also barely even started yet, i'm still in the process of setup. the sp4 is something like 1800gph, but after headloss, it's more like 1400-1500. I have it split between dual returns, I usually have it dialed in "high low" so one jet is coming out real powerful and one is less powerful, this creates more current than just having them both on full blast, which results in 2 weaker jets. I bet my high/low setup would probably be about similar to say, an fx5 + another canister? maybe anyway.

I don't know about this "see to the bottom" business, sounds kind of like arbitrary advise. Do you see ripples of water across the top of the tank? Like, looking through the front, if you look at the surface, do you see ripples? I think that's all that matters. You just don't want dead spots.

also i had another thought, i added up your gph numbers earlier and came to 2183 but that's probably excluding headloss, if we say that's including headloss, it might be more like 1500-1700gph, and at that point you're actually not that far off from the "ideal" 10x which would be 1200gph...maybe you could just drop one of the smaller canisters and so have 3 total....seems like a lot of canisters still, i'd probably try to leave the biggest two and see if that's "enough"


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

From the top

http://vid290.photobucket.com/album...loads/2016-07/20160728_102459_zpsswoi6vfm.mp4

Looking up

http://vid290.photobucket.com/albums/ll258/cjs4444/Mobile Uploads/20160728_102621_zpszu2i5qkx.mp4


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## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

it doesn't seem that bad to me. maybe a little dead towards the front but its really not that bad


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I'm one of those people who maintain there are only two limits to how much flow you can have, but in practice there really are three. The first limit is how much heat the water-cooled filter motors add to the aquarium. I had a 2500 gph pump that raised the temperature of my 520 gallon (2000 liters) aquarium by ten degrees. You can't do that forever. The second is you can't have the flow so fast it knocks scales off the fish or the resulting intake so strong it sucks fish to it.


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

LXXero said:


> it doesn't seem that bad to me. maybe a little dead towards the front but its really not that bad


Well i did adjust the flow on the cascade, 406, and fx5 and its seems better for the little guys. I do have 2 SunSun water circulators which are rated at 545 gph but they move some water. I also have 2 Hydor Koralia nano 240. Would be be best to put the smaller ones at the top corners of the front pointed at each other?


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

Mcdaphnia said:


> I'm one of those people who maintain there are only two limits to how much flow you can have, but in practice there really are three. The first limit is how much heat the water-cooled filter motors add to the aquarium. I had a 2500 gph pump that raised the temperature of my 520 gallon (2000 liters) aquarium by ten degrees. You can't do that forever. The second is you can't have the flow so fast it knocks scales off the fish or the resulting intake so strong it sucks fish to it.


My temperature is pretty steady at 80 degrees and the flow is definitely not that much but some of the smaller ones seem to be in constant motion. Some of the larger fish love it and will do the whole up and down thing for hours and others like to face the stream and just hang out. Like i said i just get a tad paranoid when reading so many different things. I just want to give them the best environment possible.

Also all my filter intakes are covered by universal rocks 3d covers and I have never found any fish stuck to an intake, even the fx5 which is powerful.


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

Update - (for those that care) 

I moved the spray bar for the sun sun to the left side and ran it the full width of the tank (24") so that the water flow is going from left to right. So this one change seems to be helping a lot better with current in the tank. I also added the 2 Hydor Koralia nano's to help move the poop to the back of the tank towards the intakes.

So mainly the update is to say I ordered an FX6 last night primarily because after cleaning my cascade 1500 and trying to prime it (which was not fun at all) a piece on the intake tube broke. So needless to say i will be getting rid of that one. The 406 is really not doing too much imo and ill probably just save it as a backup. I also plan on taking out the universal rocks background and modifying it to be able to run the FX5/6 intakes behind it as well as help with keeping the area behind there a lot cleaner...wow the build up that can happen back there lol.


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## LXXero (May 4, 2016)

I think FX5+FX6 will be a good combo


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## cjsgamecock (Sep 21, 2015)

So i have been running the fx6 now since Saturday and can already tell a difference. These filter are awesome....all in all Fluval makes some **** nice equipment but the 406 i was disappointed with. Was very blah to be honest. But i did see that they have come out with an FX4 but it seems to be only for the UK but i have seen some on ebay here in the states...so im not sure.


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