# Brown Algae Question



## greggb (Feb 4, 2010)

Hi all. I read somewhere a while back that "brown algae" may actually be diatoms, so I'm not sure if my question is about algae or diatoms.

Here's the question. I have a total of 4 different tanks, and each has this brown algae, which isn't a major problem. I brush it off when it gets too unsightly.

I've never had green algae though, which seems odd to me. I don't have intense lighting on any of these tanks, and none get sunlight, which might explain that. But I do wonder, could this be an indication that something's not right as far as tank parameters go?

Green algae does grow in one of the tanks on the glass above the water. But green algae never grows in the water in any of the tanks.

I do monitor nitrogen levels and perform regular water changes in all of the tanks. I don't add anything to the water but recommended amounts of freshwater salt and stress coat. The water ranges from the slightly hard to the really hard side, and the ph is basic.

The fact that algae grows on the glass above the water, which is kept moist by evaporated water (which doesn't contain minerals) might suggest that minerals in the water may be inhibiting the growth of green algae?

The fish are healthy and seem happy, so I'm not terribly alarmed by this. I just wonder if it's because of the fact that something's not quite right in my tank parameters.

Next question: isn't algae actually good for your tank? I'd think if it's consuming nitrates (and possibly phosphates), it would be helpful. I'd also think that having a pleco or other algae eater would be a double whammy, since first it's eating something that's reducing nitrates, and second, it's adding to the biological load in the tank. I don't have plecos or algae eaters for this reason.

Thanks in advance,
Gregg


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Can`t say for sure about your situation, but to change my brown algae to green needed a lighting change.
Don`t ask, have not a clue as to the Ã¢â‚¬Å"KÃ¢â‚¬Â


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Brown algae tends to be not like the other algae's & dosn't do well in bright conditions...I'd suggest leaving the lights on longer then you do now &/or getting brighter bulbs & see how things go from there...
Also before your next water change wipe all that stuff up from everywhere inside the tank let it get suspended in the water then do a water change...Make sure to keep doing that for awhile & hopefully the combo of things will stop it from growing & diluted out with the water changes...Do some deep vacuuming as well...

Do you have live plants in the tank? Brown algae can also be from high phosphate's which a simple live plant can easily cause...


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

It can also be caused by the phosphates and silicates in your water supply. Your situation sounds similar to mine. I've had it in every tank, and it's just starting to get less in one tank that's been running for a year. I have well water and low WPG lighting also with very little sunlight hitting any tank. Some sands will make it worse, like pool filter sand, because they contain silica also. I have it in my 125 and the diatoms were tremendous originally. But my mbuna like grazing on it on the rocks!


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## greggb (Feb 4, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. I do have live plants in two of the tanks. Come to think of it, one of the tanks I planted about a week ago really sprung up with brown algae, when I hadn't noticed much up to that point. So there might be something to that.

The lights are left on for longer periods than is normally recommended, mainly because I like to be able to see the fish, and I don't have serious algae problems. The lights aren't anything special, because as far as I know none of the fish I keep have special lighting requirements - in fact, most of what I've read about cichlids suggests keeping the lighting low, because in the wild they tend to live in deeper water.

The brown algae isn't severe. I brush it off maybe every two weeks or so. It's not a huge problem or concern... I just wonder why green algae isn't growing. Should I really be concerned?


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

I'd suggest not letting it go though...I think phosphate issues are one of the most common un-discussed tank issues for people...Phosphates will compete for the oxygen in the water & eventually become mixed/suspended into the water itself making breathing for fish really difficult...It has the potential to kill the fish eventually if not removed...If it gets to that point a UV sterilizer is really the only other way of removing it w/o having to do drastic water changes to dilute it out...


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

CrypticLifeStyle said:


> It has the potential to kill the fish eventually if not removed...If it gets to that point a UV sterilizer is really the only other way of removing it w/o having to do drastic water changes to dilute it out...


A UV sterilizer removes phosphates?? :-?


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Rhinox said:


> CrypticLifeStyle said:
> 
> 
> > It has the potential to kill the fish eventually if not removed...If it gets to that point a UV sterilizer is really the only other way of removing it w/o having to do drastic water changes to dilute it out...
> ...


Yeah...As phosphates are made of up organic matter...


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

CrypticLifeStyle said:


> Rhinox said:
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> > CrypticLifeStyle said:
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Are you sure?. I thought UV sterilizers only affect living organisms that pass through them. UV sterilizers do not remove organic matter or anything from the water.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

-in my ltd. understanding, brown algae is a prerequisite life form to the formation of green types. you may have better luck culturing green algae if you resist cleaning the brown diatom from underwater surfaces. diatoms can also embed into glass, allowing a faster growth return after cleanings, so i might guess that the lids growing green algae are your oldest set? and green algae will accelerate growth with the addition of light due to it's photosynthesis capabilities, whereas brown diatoms will do similar in low light. either way, a bloom indicates excessive nitrate or phosphate. nitrate from excrement. phosphate from uneaten food. we can buy test kits for both, to help us determine the solution to either bloom. i believe most keepers clean out algae because they find it unsightly and/or contributing to odor. like every life form, they take something to contribute something else. for example: excessive algae can create a low oxygen condition during lights out, which can stress fish during that time. but both diatoms and algae invite micro organisms to flourish, adding to the diet of our fishes.
- and you are correct regarding pleco. it's just a matter of what type of waste you prefer to limit and/or remove. personally, i love pleco, so i have no glass scrapers, never remove decor for cleaning, but siphon substrate 24/7/365. in tanks i do not wish to siphon, i add burrowing snails, that help to further breakdown these wastes. i reciprocate that process with more frequent water changes. HTH.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Rhinox said:


> CrypticLifeStyle said:
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> > Rhinox said:
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Phosphates of his sorts are from dying/decaying organic matter...One of the largest reasons people get UV sterilizers is cause it does remove organic matter from the water...The radiative light reconstructs the cellular makeup of algae or parasites that kills it off...

8 years ago i had decided to put a bunch of live plants in my tank for all the reasons many people do all the time...Plants are cheap, they look nice & add a lot of natural look to things...But i also learned the hard way when i had a white algae bloom which then kept getting worse...I had no idea about phosphates @ the time & all the LFS couldn't even come up with my issue being phosphates til i went to Tropical Isle one day & they actually tested for it which the LFS didn't & ended up being high phosphate levels from the live plants i had...I had purchased a UV sterilizer as recommended to remove it & 48 hours later it was gone & have been dealing with it a few times since even recently...A good indicator of having phosphates in water is brown algae, more so then not the reason for it is the phosphates...Stuff can get pretty nasty & grow pretty fast if not controlled...


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## jevans89 (Sep 18, 2005)

Cryptic - my first reaction when I read your post was to say that the UV light acts to disrupt the DNA (and possibly other cellular processes) of living organisms and shouldn't affect phosphates. A brief google of UV sterilization and phosphates did show some mention of reducing phosphates. Since UV sterilizers dont actually remove anything from the water, i wonder if the UV light can breakdown organic phosphates into its inorganic parts.

Has anyone ever tried testing for phosphates before and after use of a UV sterilizer? Just curious :wink:


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

DrgRcr said:


> It can also be caused by the phosphates and silicates in your water supply. Your situation sounds similar to mine. I've had it in every tank, and it's just starting to get less in one tank that's been running for a year. I have well water and low WPG lighting also with very little sunlight hitting any tank. Some sands will make it worse, like pool filter sand, because they contain silica also. I have it in my 125 and the diatoms were tremendous originally. But my mbuna like grazing on it on the rocks!


 Funny you mention this as I am on well water also, When I originally set up my 30 gallon I got green algae, I was able to get rid of the green through chemicals which I don't use anymore. I then got brown about a month later and would just clean it off, we left town for a weekend and I decided to leave the lights off and cover the tank with a sheet. When I got back the tank was virtually algae free.

I then switched from the 30 to a 46 bow front, water stayed great, then about 2 months into it the brown came back with a vengeance. I have decided to leave it and see what happens some of it has started to turn green now, I also noticed one day when I hadn't done a water change in a week the fish seemed to be breathing heavy and hiding more than usual. I did a 50% water change and the fish reacted immediately, way more movement and not hiding anymore. I read another post here about the phosphates robbing oxygen from the tank? Makes sense now from I witnessed. I have put purigen in the tank now and its staying crystal clear, I also went with less lighting and a bit more percent of a water change. Still have the brown algae but am not going clean it and see where it goes?

Not sure what all this means and I may try the UV system at some point and see what happens to the brown algae?

Best thread I have read yet on brown algae!
A bit more to offer.

I sell spas for a living my understanding on ozone is it oxidizes organic material some will argue that it also kills bacteria. There are 2 types of ozonators used in spas 1 is UV (ultra violet) the other is CD (corona discharge) both are injected direct to the water and create O3 gas, some others also use a UV light where the pass water through the beam of UV light not actually injecting gas into the water. I believe this is the type that is widely used in aquariums, I wonder if the injected type of ozone would kill fish or if kept in low enough levels would not? I don't want to try it and kill my fish but it would be interesting to find out?

Anyway would love to hear some more on this subject, not sure it will stay in this section though?


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

JimA: i used to live on a country property with well water. one might consider well water consistent, but it will vary seasonally, and certainly be influenced by heavy rains and dry seasons. if your aquarium does not offer a clue to your algae blooms, do not forget that a well is also a 'tank' of sorts. there is obviously no light in there, but it can collect the nutrients required to cause one. when i lived there, i tested seasonally for both phosphate and nitrate. 
eventually, i determined both a micron and carbon filter were important additions for both drinking and aquarium waters, because spring and fall offered traces of both. the well was dug, not drilled, but both can have similar issues. HTH.


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

lloyd, Our well water is artesian and pretty much nasty it does change seasonally for sure, it has arsenic,sulfur, coliform, and sometimes ecoli in it 

You name it and we have done it as far as trying to sterilize the well. My wife runs a licensed child care at the house so the health dept is all over us. Before moving in we put in a 8000,00 dollar Culligan water system in to include a chlorine injector,water softner various carbon filters along with the normal micron type, also one that removes the arsenic. By the time the water reaches the house its pretty much perfect, I run chlorine test to make sure non is there and also use the chlorine neutralizer stuff when changing water in the tank. We also have to take a water sample in every few months to be tested as well which goes to the health dept. Gotta love those guys :roll:

The one thing I am gonna have checked next time is phosphates, I haven't checked the past ones to see if it even listed our main concern it the coliform and e-coli for obvious reasons.


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## greggb (Feb 4, 2010)

Thanks again for all the great replies. One of the things I'm still not completely sure on, though, is whether or not algae is desirable. Aside from the fact that it's unsightly, why would you want to remove it? It would seem to me that it might be actually helping the tank. Someone had mentioned that it could lead to low level oxygen levels when lights are out, but assuming you could keep that under control, why wouldn't you want some algae growing?

In reply to LLoyd: I keep my nitrate levels pretty low with frequent water changes. And right now the tank with the smallest biological load seems to have the most brown algae. That's a 29 gallon tank at my office that I recently made some changes to: I changed substrate to silica sand (as was mentioned as being a potential cause of brown algae growth by someone else) and plants all in the same day. It was probably a week later or so that I noticed a serious growth of brown algae. When I go to my office today I may take a pic of it and post it.

So, I'd tend to think that the food source for the brown algae in my case is something other than nitrates. Especially where the tank with the lowest bio load has the largest amount of it.

Edit: I should say that nitrates aren't the primary factor in my case, but I'm sure they're still a factor... just not the largest one.


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

FYI I am using pool filter sand also. 
Overall I don't mind the algae,the fish do nibble at it and while its not the prettiest it also gives the tank a natural look. Since I changed to a not so bright light and have live flowing grass type plants it looks more and more like the btm of a lake. I will take a pic and post it tomorrow, see what ya think.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

jevans89 said:


> Cryptic - my first reaction when I read your post was to say that the UV light acts to disrupt the DNA (and possibly other cellular processes) of living organisms and shouldn't affect phosphates. A brief google of UV sterilization and phosphates did show some mention of reducing phosphates. Since UV sterilizers dont actually remove anything from the water, i wonder if the UV light can breakdown organic phosphates into its inorganic parts.
> 
> Has anyone ever tried testing for phosphates before and after use of a UV sterilizer? Just curious :wink:


Well what i mean by it removing phosphates is the UV destroys the algae in the water (just the free floating algae, nothing attached to things) which in turn helps eliminate the high phosphates besides using lets say phosphate buffer media...
Many factors can cause high phosphates, but him having live plants & brown algae which is actually diatoms which are i do believe tech. "organic skeletons" the plants are the likely cause as i find it to be quite common when having live plants in a tank...Silica sand, excessive food are also contributors to high phosphate levels...All it takes is some part of a plant to decay or rot to get the whole mess started...
Could also be a recent cycled tank as brown algae tends to show up there too...Brown algae can also mess with nitrate tests & make tests show things are good when they arn't & the phosphates are feeding on the nitrates...
But your right the UV dosn't remove phosphates itself, just helps in the multi stage process of controlling it...

I'm usually on here either early or late so i'm always tired & don't make the best of sense :lol:


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

You make sense to me, that being said I had brown algae before I added the live plants, now the plants (grass) is getting brown algae on them as well. One plant is anyway the others not?


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## greggb (Feb 4, 2010)

JimA said:


> You make sense to me, that being said I had brown algae before I added the live plants, now the plants (grass) is getting brown algae on them as well. One plant is anyway the others not?


All of my plants have brown algae on them. I think as far as the algae is concerned, it's just another surface. It may be easier for it to stick to a plant than glass, or it may be that you don't generally brush your plants like you do your glass, which would explain why there's so much brown algae on your plants, or why it's so noticeable.


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