# Dead Yellow Tail Acei



## walkinh2o (Nov 13, 2009)

Recently moved my fish (mostly yellow labs) from my existing 37 tall to a 100 gallon show tank (all those fish are doing well in the new tank). I restocked the 37 with juvenile Rustys (4), Yellow Tail Acei (4) and Electric Blues (3). Everything seemed to be going fine for about 10-12 days when overnight 3 of the Acei died and then today the last one went. They all died within about a 3 day period. The Rustys still look fine although one of the Electric Blues seems to be flashing/convulsing a lot now, swimming weird and literally being pushed around by the other 2 Blues. I'm thinking it might not be doing so well. My water conditions are fine.... all the fish I took out of that tank before adding the new ones are doing well. There's even 1 Yellow Lab fry that got left in the 37 and it seems to be doing fine. Any ideas what might have happened to the Acei? No signs of Ich or any fungus that I can see. Should I treat the tank with anything? I haven't had to deal with any diseases or anything in the last year+ that I've been keeping cichlids. Any help you could give me would be appreciated.

Thanks!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

The Acei that died: were they eating and swimming normally the day before they died? If so then here are some possibilities of what killed them: 
*Aggression* from another fish. You won't always see an obvious injury--it can be internal
*Bacterial disease: *usually you'll see some kind of fungus-y looking growth on the fish but it can also be internal. Columnaris Disease can kill a fish in a few hours. 
*Water quality:* if the tank was without fish for any length of time prior to the addition of these new fish then you would have lost your beneficial bacteria which of course is what keeps your tank cycled. Some fish are more sensitive to ammonia and nitrite spikes. 
Suggestion: 
Re-test the water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Make sure you're using a good test kit, (check the shelf life, and generally speaking the test tube kits are more accurate then the test strip kind)
Then: do a partial water change of 30% using a good quality dechlorinator.

My guess would be that aggression killed your acei. That tank is really way too small for those fish--any level of aggression can turn up in injury and death simply because the fish have no where to go to evade the aggressor.

Robin


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## walkinh2o (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks for your input Robin!

I suppose it could have been aggression although I was told when I purchased them from a reputable LFS that the 3 species should co-habitat together ok. Aggression towards the one species would explain why it was just the Acei that have died (at least so far) and why I don't see any signs of anything else (bloat, Ich, etc..). I did consider that it could be an internal parasite or bacterial infection but I have no experience treating those, that's why I posted and was requesting feedback from those more knowledgeable than me.

To answer a couple of your questions...

The 37 tank only went about 24 hours with no fish in it so I don't think I should have lost too many of the beneficial bacteria? I tested water before and after adding the new fish and no spikes so I didn't think it need a re-cycle.

I realize the 37 is a bit small for the fish that I put in there but they are all juveniles (1.5"-2") so I was basically using it as a grow-out/isolation tank for a few months until I could move some or all of them to the 100 gal. The 37 does have quite a bit of Holey Rock in it for fish to find their own "spot" if they wanted to.

Water Parameters: (tested with API Master test kit - my water has been stable at these numbers for about a year)
PH. 7.9-8.0
Ammo. 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20

50% W.C. & gravel vacuum weekly using Prime as my dechlorinator.

So... with all that in mind do you think I should treat for anything in-particular?

Thanks again!!!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Electric blue is a common name for several fish. Do you know which fish you have? The scientific name?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Thanks for the additional info--the 37 should be fine as a temp/grow-out tank however you never know when juveniles are going to start spawning. It can happen when they are still quite small and of course with the spawning comes competition for females and territory and that leads to aggression. Even with tons of rock/hiding places a 37 gallon has such a small footprint that one or two fish may lay claim to the entire tank. Fish that have gotten along 'just fine' for months, even years, can suddenly change one they reach spawning age and also when you add or remove certain fish thereby changing the tank hierarchy.

Did the Acei die quickly: eating and swimming normally one day to death the next? Or were there a progression of symptoms over a few days to a weeks time?

Internal parasites take time to bring a fish down--and they normally have symptoms that build over a week or more.

So if your Acei did die fast then, no, there is no med I would suggest. If however there were symptoms please post back with the symptoms. I don't know for sure what's going on with your tank but I would say that aggression is the most likely. 
Try to observe the fish sometime when they don't know you're there to see how they interact. Are any fish hanging up by the filter or near the top?

Robin


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## walkinh2o (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks again guys (and gals!  )

The blue cichilds were sold as "Electric Blue" but looking around online I highly suspect they Blue Ahli (Sciaenochromis ahli)... at least that is the picture that I found that resembles them the closest. Looks like I have 1 male (darker, more vibrant colored) and 2 females (light blue/gray). I specifically asked the guy at the LFS when I bought them if there was going to be any issues with the Electric Blues and the Acei since they are both blue, of course he said they'd be fine together. I still have the 4 Rustys in there and a lone surviving Yellow Lab fry that was left over from my non-stop breeding Labs before I moved them to the 100 gal a couple weeks ago.

The Acei did die rather quick... 3 in 1 day and the last one about 2 days later. Before they died they were eating fine and seemed active although I did notice them hanging out at the top of the tank more than what I'm accustom to seeing my Yellow Labs do. All of the fish in the 37 are flashing quite a lot and twitching. Not continuously or anything but again... more than my Labs ever did. Could that be signs of them trying to establish a pecking order (dominance) and be normal or do you think it's probably more likely a parasite which could have led to the deaths of the Acei? Sorry to be a pest... just trying to learn so I don't have to flush any more fish! 

Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

It really doesn't sound like a parasite. Like I said, with parasites you have symptoms over a period of days leading up to death. Where you said they were hanging up at the top: this can indicate a number of things, one of the most common is aggression. The dominant fish will not allow the fish to swim freely other than at feeding time--and that's only because he's too busy eating. 
Flashing: unless they are doing it constantly and to the extent of rubbing off scales, it's nothing to worry about. 
The fish you have in the 37 gallon might be fine in a larger tank so the LFS wasn't necessarily wrong. ANd even when you have species that are SUPPOSE to get along sometimes you'll have one or two fish that for whatever reason don't fit. So you end up removing/adding fish until you find a combination that works. It's just part of this cichlid hobby.

And you're not a pest.

Robin


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

*I did notice them hanging out at the top of the tank more than what I'm accustom to seeing my Yellow Labs do.*

Often a sign of aggression.
They get pestered out of the more Ã¢â‚¬Å"comfortableÃ¢â‚¬Â


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## walkinh2o (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks everyone! A week later and everything seems to be going ok... no signs of any illness, just 1 very aggressive Electric Blue picking on every fish that's not a Rusty. Looks like your initial impressions and advice with what was going on was right on. I'll chalk it up as a learning experience I guess.... Makes me wonder if I should take him back to the LFS or just see how it goes for a while.... eventually I was planning on putting them all in my big tank with the mature Labs and Acei but that might be like unleashing the spawn of Satan on an otherwise relatively harmonious tank! haha


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Glad things have improved.

As far as the aggression goes and what to do about it: even with the best thought out stocking list, (species and male/female ratio), in a 37 gallon your chances of success are not great. Not that it can't be done but you'd have to start off with some of the least aggressive cichlids and then still make changes from there.

It might help to take the EB back to the fish store, _but it may not_. Sometimes when you take the bully out of the tank another previously peaceful fish will rise up and be just as bad, or even worse. All you can do it try it. It's not fun or easy to catch and remove fish but switching fish in and out of a tank until you get a combo that works is just part of the cichlid hobby.

Let us know how it works out

Robin


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

*Sometimes when you take the bully out of the tank another previously peaceful fish will rise up and be just as bad, or even worse. All you can do it try it.*

Boy, is that ever true.
I`ve had some fish, a male Kenyi, that was one of the most docile fish in the tank.
I`ve had some yellow Labs that were as close to being the Devil`s Spawn as you could get.
I would guess that none of the fish I have are Ã¢â‚¬Å"pureÃ¢â‚¬Â


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