# Noob question



## dtoddskiles (Jun 22, 2015)

So we have 6 African Cichlids in a 20 gallon aquarium. I set it up with well water (it's what we have). The fish are alive, but they don't come out and the ones that do come out of their special hiding rocks just lay on the bottom and don't move except when we feed them.

The chemicals all check out - although the pH is a bit high at 8.5, and I've been replacing the water slowly with bottled water that has a pH of 7.2 (Deer Park) to see if that helps. Maybe the pH was TOO high (even for cichlids) Temp is about 78.

There's no sign of distress - fins are full, no gasping, no signs of fungus, and no deaths. Just no activity. They either hide all the time, or lay in a corner and don't move.

Why do my fish act like teenagers who were just asked to take out the trash?


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## klimarov (May 12, 2015)

from what i know that only Lake malawi Cichlids need such high PH (8.5), Lake vitoria and Tanganika live in 7.5-7.8. Also what do you feed them? i had issue with my oscar when he would eat too many dried shrimp pellets, that would expand in his belly causing him to lay on gravel for some time. I stopped feeding those and he is ok, swimming now.


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## dtoddskiles (Jun 22, 2015)

I tried API Cichlid mini pellets (they're young). Those seemed to get ignored, so I got Omega One Cichlid Flakes, which they seem interested in. Although they tend to spit them out and re-eat over and over.


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## tonyjd34 (Feb 5, 2015)

how long has this tank been set up? 
there are very few African cichlids who will do well in 20 gallon aquariums, especially one not properly cycled to develop the bacteria needed to break down fish waste and dispose of it through the nitrification cycle.

if this tank is new then the fish are acting strange because they are in a new environment with new water parameters.

8.5ph is a bit high but your fish can adapt, its fluctuation of ph that becomes the problem.

I don't want to sound like a jerk but the best advice at this point is to take the fish back, read up on and then begin a fishless cycle and then do some research on fish that would do well in a 20 gal tank if that is the biggest tank you can get or want. There are some neat shell dwelling cichlids from lake Tanganyika and a couple dwarf mbuna from lake Malawi that can work in small aquariums.


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## dtoddskiles (Jun 22, 2015)

Tank has cycled. Worked up from 2 fish and used a bacterial supplement just in case. Nitrites and Nitrates are minimal after a month. pH was stable at 8.5 until yesterday when I tried a 20% water replacement using bottled water. Very little change in pH or total alkalinity despite the water swap. Added the water treatment anyway despite the non-chlorine, non-fluoride water used.

And I had cichlids in a 20gallon tank for 15 years without any problems.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

klimarov said:


> from what i know that only Lake malawi Cichlids need such high PH (8.5), Lake vitoria and Tanganika live in 7.5-7.8. Also what do you feed them? i had issue with my oscar when he would eat too many dried shrimp pellets, that would expand in his belly causing him to lay on gravel for some time. I stopped feeding those and he is ok, swimming now.


The number for ph are not accurate.

Here is a table... but it is somewhat restrictive in that it is reporting from specific spots, and the ranges of ph in Lake Malawi can be lower, particularly in areas close to estuaries and bays.

http://malawicichlids.com/mw01011.htm

The main problems are likely a cycling issue, but more specifically the tank is nowhere near big enough to house these fish.


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## klimarov (May 12, 2015)

i actually do remember now a similar issue a year ago when i started with 10g tank and i had 1 adult red zebra there. she would just mostly lay on the ground when not eating. when i added a companion, she killed him, but **** yeah, they were moving than. After that i found out about the bio cycle and when measured ammonia level i was surprised that zebra is still alive. She is still alive in my 55g, which has been cycled with 8.0 ph and a little salt. also got tropheus duboisi there, oscar and few black convicts. I know the mix is less likely to work out, however they've been calm, not killing any thing so far.


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## BugHunter87 (Mar 19, 2015)

That's not a good combination. Your Oscar shouldn't be in a tank that small. I would probably re-home everything except the convicts and just keep those until you can upgrade your tank size. Then stick to one continent.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Nitrites should not be minimal, it must be ZERO.


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## judyok (Aug 12, 2014)

I agree with tanker3 nitrites should be zero and a ph of 8.5 can be tolerated by Tanganyikans. My Tanganyikan tanks have a ph of 8.2 and the fish are healthy and breeding.


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## dtoddskiles (Jun 22, 2015)

Update. 
1. When I say minimal - I meant "don't appear to register."
2. Did a copper test. Zero. Took a water sample to the *good* fish store and got tested. Everything is perfect.
3. No Oscars. Been there, done that. Would never put an Oscar in a 20g tank and my wife vetoed the 100g.

That being said - I removed all the decor to do some cleaning (they're picky eaters. They only eat certain color flakes...) Now I've got a lively tank - and their colors are bright and when I drag my finger along the outside of the tank - they follow my finger.

So I'll leave the decor out for a few hours and see what happens.


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## dtoddskiles (Jun 22, 2015)

It appears I have a bully and that seems to be the problem. I rearranged the decor and everyone is out and about. But one Red Zebra is being quite the little turd.


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## judyok (Aug 12, 2014)

Ha that would explain alot.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

dtoddskiles said:


> It appears I have a bully and that seems to be the problem. I rearranged the decor and everyone is out and about. But one Red Zebra is being quite the little turd.


No shock, the tank is far too small. Someone will always be a problem in a tank where that is too small for the other fish to escape the dominant fishes territory. In order for this to not be a problem, the tank needs to be longer than the chase distance, which is 36"....


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