# aqueon quietflow vs mag drive supreme



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Does anyone have experience with the new aqueon large capacity pumps? I was looking at the aq6000.

Was intent on a mag drive 18 but the aq6000 is ratedat 1600 gph at 78w. Thw md 18 is 140w. On paper the aqueon is nearly twice as energy efficient


----------



## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

That is intriguing! However, given my experiences with Danner Mag Drive 18s regarding reliability and ease of maintenance (there isn't any required!), I would be reluctant to try anything else - even at these specs! That said, if you do try the Aqueon and like it, please let us know. A bit of competition can definitely be a good thing


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Im with you. Its 40-50 bucks less per year to run the AQ though. Thats significant.

Im curious if the wattage data is accurate on the aqueon. If so its FAR more efficient than anything else *** seen. the 2100 GPH is under 100W.


----------



## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

I hear ya. That's why I became interested in your post. The question is, how can one make a simple impeller pump that much more efficient? I mean, the way you design the plumbing will make a huge difference, but these ratings are for the pump only - in a nutshell a short piece of pipe and an impeller. Do you have a chance to look at those pumps in person? Is there anything dramatically different about the Aqueon? If not, maybe it is just optimistically rated :wink:

Not wanting to badmouth Aqueon, but frankly I find it hard to see what could make this large a difference in efficiency. Impeller pumps are pretty efficient to begin with.


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

I agree. and no, I cant. My system will drive through 2 spray bars, and several 90s.

I wish I had a way to gauge the current draw of that pump, unrestricted when I got it. If its saving 60 watts, Id love to use it. But it better be saving all 60 watts for me to forego a mag drive danner with a 5 yr warranty.

I'm doning all i can to conserve energy with 5 aquariums running, but if the rating is BS on this pump I will be pissed, to put it bluntly


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

I may get one and hook it up to a kill - a - watt to verify... *** been wanting a kill a watt anyways.......


----------



## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Actually there are quite a number of ways to make the pump more energy efficient. The most common of which is to use a better grade of magnet for the impeller. The Italian sourced magnetic ore used to make the magnets is much stronger than the ore used to make magnets in other countries. The stronger the magnet the more torque it will have when put into an electric motor.

Increasing the number of windings inside the motor will also increase the torque which also increases the energy efficiency.

When you hook a pump up to a Kill A Watt you will notice that the wattage will decrease as you increase the head pressure. Head pressure slows down the rate of spin of the impeller. The slower it spins the less energy the motor consumes. The electrical readings for the Quietflow pumps were taken with a pump suspended in a vat of water. The head pressure is zero which will be the highest energy reading.

Andy


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Well I did order it from big als this week. Was on sale for $129. *** been wanting a kill a watt anyway, so I will pick that up and report findings here. Hopefully, this aqueon pump will be as reliable as a danner. The warranty is only a year on it, however, and I dont have alot of confidence in aqueon quality. But Im willing to give them I shot.

narwhal do you work for them? You seem to have alot of info on this pump


----------



## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I work in R&D for Central Aquatics (Aqueon, Coralife, Kent, Zilla). So yeah, I have a lot of info.

The company that makes the pumps for Aqueon has also made a lot of pumps for other brands over the years. Including the original MaxiJets (before Marineland took them to China) and they make protein skimmer pumps for Marineland and Cobalt. You can see the similarities in the pumps when you put them side by side.

I have been running the Aqueon pumps here in the lab for a few years now and they are flawless and take a lot of abuse. Also the low water "hoover" intake was my idea.

PS when you measure with a Kill A Watt be sure to measure the true wattage. Press the wattage button once. If you press it twice it will read the VA which does not account for the power factor.

I just went and checked one of my 6000's I had running and it was pulling 76 watts.

Andy


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

so you leave them running 24/7 and you've gotten several years out of them?

thats reassuring. the 1yr warranty is a real turn off. I almost went with a danner just because of that, but the rated efficiency has me intrigued


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Well the pump came in today - I expected it to be alot bigger.... I hope it really does push enough water - Im a bit worried now, it looks no bigger than the 1000GPH upstairs in my 75. Im startiung to think I should have gotten the AQ8000


----------



## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

6000 and 8000 share the same housing so there wouldn't be any difference in size. Just the number of windings on the motor.


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Update - pump is hooked up and running, I can barely hear it over the returns, becasue I dont have my drip trays in yet. So it seems quiet so far. I like the pickup design. I hope its quiet when I get the media and driptrays in.

I have it throttled slighly with a makeshift control valve in the discharge side. (3/4 pvc valve) 1" reduced to 3/4 twin spray bars, my return is an eshopps twin 1.5' HOB PF1600. If I open the outlet full bore, it will outpace the returns and overfill my tank if Im not careful. It seems to put out plenty of water. Head is aabout 3.5'.

Havent gotten my kill a watt in yet....


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Further updates - Pump is garbage in my opinion. After short tests, I set up for a test run. After less than 24 hours, its shot. Wont start, only bumps. With Aqueon only backing this with a 1 year warranty, and a failure in less than 24 hours, my confidence in this pump is zero.

A MD18 costs double to run, if the pwoer readings are right. I never en got to put a KAW on it. It didnt survive long enough. INCREDIBLY frustrated in this pump, and probably should have known better.

Now I have to deal with big als and a return. More delays for my 180. I wanted to give aqueon a chance.


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Second update - I called big als - When I asked for a return i spoke to a tech helper. He offered a few suggestions that worked - eventually. The pump went thru several "fits" of malfucntion, and a period of time where it would cut off after 30 seconds, then a minute or so, then a couple minutes. At each point it would restart on its own. It is now operating... Seemingly this has something to do with the protection? The pump never ran dry however. *** neer had to "manually" intervene with a pump like this before , however.

Will see how long it stays running at this point. Andy seems to have some in his lab that have been running a long time. Its not constant ops what worry me - its failsafes, power outages, and restarts. *** set this system up so that if a syphon breaks on my returns, the tank wont overflow, and there is plenty of space in the sump for power outages. The AQ6000's run dry protection was part of the engineered controls I wanted in this system. If I cant count on it to restart........ I have decisions to make.


----------



## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Never had that experience with any of the ones I have been running in the lab and tech and warranty have never come to me with a defective one to examine. Maybe it sucked in some air which caused it to lose prime?

I have run them dry plenty of times and they always restart as soon as I refill the sump.


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

took alot of effort to get restarted. I had to manually "assist" the impeller several times if that data helps.

Even then it still only stayed running after several intermittent shut downs. I'd have never stuck anything in there and bumped the impeller unless told to, for fear of voiding warranty.

It seems to be doing OK for now, but Im not sure how much I trust it


----------



## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Looks like there is a higher than normal level of friction.

In order to overcome friction, water pumps have a capacitor that builds up a more powerful starting charge in order to get the impeller started. Once the impeller starts rotating and has momentum this extra charge is not needed so the capacitor no longer discharges. Sometimes a new pump can become stuck and the capacitor is not strong enough to overcome the friction. That is why a little poke of the impeller will get it started. The poke dislodges the impeller and reduces the frictional "hold" on the impeller giving the capacitor the chance to start rotation.

Once the pump has run a little while it wears a little bit and a layer of biofilm will form on the impeller which reduces the friction and reduces the possibility of startup issues in the future.

I encourage you to give the pump a chance and I don't think you will have any more issues.
Andy


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Andy -

Thats a much better explination than "they just do that sometimes when new - It will break in". - Makes sense and its not hand waving so much. Technical reasons are better. (Im a tech at one of our national DOE labs - so thats more my language) I take it theres no oil or shaft seal on the abck side of this impeller to fail?

I'll give it a chance. Its a quiet pump - I just wish the warranty was longer on it. I hope to have my kill a watt soon to report what its runnign on my system.

As an insider - you might want to push to put that information in the manual for the pump. It would aleviate alot of frustration. I spent over an hour plugging it in , attempting to reset it, manually re-priming it, etc. As a consumer, I wouldnt stick anything in the impeller to assist it for fear of voiding warranty - the thing almost went back.


----------



## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

There's no oil or shaft seal on any of the wet parts. The motor may have some mineral oil underneath the epoxy seal (that's pretty typical of motors). I have never cracked one open though.

Your condition is pretty atypical and those kinds of things generally don't go into the instructions. Too much information can be just as bad as not enough. Make instruction manuals too complex and people stop using them.

Andy


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

I wanted to report back for those interested. Nearly 8 months later and my Aqueon quietflow pump is still running quiet and well. At this point I can say so far Im very happy with this pump. I like it.

I never did get around to the kill a watt.... Yet. I really need to double check the current draw on it. maybe I can do that next week.

Either way its a good pump so far, and the snout / pickup design works well.


----------



## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

The snout was my idea. Glad you like it.


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Food for thought on the snout - it alows you to run your water level in the return side lower. That couple inches can be valuable in a power outage drain back situation.


----------



## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Also gives you another few days of run time before you have to refill due to evaporation.

Only thing to remember is to turn it sideways or take it off on startup to prevent an air block.


----------

