# Pseudotropheus sp. "Williamsi North"



## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

Ok, so I have been bit by the "blue lips" bug. I have done some research on them and see that they can get pretty big, so I dont think I can do them in my current setup, not to mention I already have a Pseudotropheus species (Dems) in my tank. So it looks like I will have to just set up a new tank, lol.

I have a few questions though, so bear with me please. First, could I do a group of these in a tank with maybe some Haps or Peacocks, or would the Williamsi be too much for either of those to handle? If I cant do Haps or Peacocks with them, what are some Mbuna that might work with them? Second, what size tank should I look at getting for these guys? Im assuming from how large they get that nothing less than a 75 gal would work? My current setup is a 95 gal, so I think I would prefer to go even bigger than that, but I dont want to go too overboard.

I know I have other questions, but I am having a brain fart right now. Im sure once I get some responses it will jar my memory. So any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## mbamba_boy (May 12, 2012)

I have been keeping williamsi for awhile now. A few things I've noticed in the few years is they aren't very aggressive even towards their own kind. They are ferocious when it comes to feeding time and make it tough for some of the haps I have kept them with to get at the food. I've housed them with blue dragons blood peacocks and although the williamsi showed very low interest in them they barely got to eat. If you keep them with haps make sure it's a species that isn't afraid to get in there at feeding time. Your 95 should be fine to do a smaller group of maybe 1m/4f along with the demosoni providing you have adequate filtration and rockwork. Right now I have 3m/3f and 6 juvies in with some chewere and polit and aside from the males displaying dominance to one another there is now real con specific agression.I do however plan on getting my ratio closer to 2m/6f long term


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

> Your 95 should be fine to do a smaller group of maybe 1m/4f along with the demosoni providing you have adequate filtration and rockwork.


I also have Rusties (they would have to go), Msobos, and Pearlmutts in my 95 so i dont know how well they would work with those. Also, wouldnt there be a chance of cross breeding with the Dems since they are both Pseudotropheus? I think I am good on the filtration and rockwork. I have two filters running on the tank, a Cascade 1500 and a Odyssea CFS 750, which combined give me a turover rate close to 1000gph. I have a ton of Texas Holey rock in the tank..


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## mbamba_boy (May 12, 2012)

Whenever you put mouthbrooding cichlids together, especially mbuna, there is a chance of hybridization. Given enough females for the Williamsi and the difference in physical look I think you should have no problem with those two


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

Pseudotropheus species can be mixed,as long as they don't look alike. The Pseudotropheus is used as a holding genus for species to later be classified differently.

As an example Williamsi Blue Lips,and Acei would do well together,but Demasoni,and Saulosi would not.Another example... Mainganos used to be classed as melanochromis,but have recently been changed to pseudotropheus,the maingano look nothing like williamsi,and would also work just fine together.

Not sure why the Rusties would have to go, I have a williamsi,and rusty together. They stay in an all male tank though,so maybe the behavior is different in there.


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

> Not sure why the Rusties would have to go


I just figured their coloring was too similar and may cause problems.

So would it be possible to do a small group of these in my 95 gal with my current stock?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Well they get pretty big, and you already have 4 species in the tank.

Different than mbamba boy, my 'williamsi north' are jerks. I do not have adults, though. They back down metriaclima larger than them. Definitely fierce at feeding time. Their antics are fun to watch.


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## mbamba_boy (May 12, 2012)

What are the measurements of the 95? The main issue I see is you are already full on groups. If your group of demosoni is larger like most keep you would count that as two groups. Add the rusty, msobo and the pearmutts and you're up to five. If it's a four foot tank you want to shoot for four groups. I have to agree with Iggy. Their antics and behavior are great and by far my favorite mbuna. They almost remind me of bluegill


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

> What are the measurements of the 95? The main issue I see is you are already full on groups. If your group of demosoni is larger like most keep you would count that as two groups. Add the rusty, msobo and the pearmutts and you're up to five. If it's a four foot tank you want to shoot for four groups


It is a four foot tank, and I have 12 Dems in there. So pretty much as I thought, I wont be able to do these in my current setup. I would have to get rid of one or two other species that are currently in my tank to possibly do it, and I really dont want to do that.

So I guess it is back to looking at getting another tank in order to get some of these guys.


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## mbamba_boy (May 12, 2012)

I think the dems and the williamsi would look good together. Maybe do those in the 95 and move the others to a 75


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I like your setup the way it is.


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

> I like your setup the way it is.


So do I, that's why I really don't want to mess with it as far as removing any fish.

I found a guy local to me who is selling a 125gal tank with a stand for $100. He didn't have really great pics of it. The tank looks like it is in decent shape, just needs a good cleaning, and the stand looks structurally sound, just needs refinishing, but I think I still might go check it out for that price. If I can get that tank it would be perfect for the Williamsi and who knows what else.


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## Mschn99 (Dec 24, 2012)

I personally have found my Williamsi to be a pretty dominant species. Mine are not adults, largest fish are around 3.5" and still even having trouble venting them. They also have not spawned as of yet. I have them currently in with my Pundamilia Nyererei and everyone does well together, but i tried them in with my Cynotilapia Sp. "hara" and the larger hara were getting pushed around big time. They are every bit as aggressive as my Nyererei which IMO is the most dominant of the 15 species im keeping breeding groups of. At a full 6 or 7", these guys could be a handful with the wrong species. On a side note, i personally am a bigger fan of demasoni in species only tanks, so maybe consider that to help you with your space issues. You could do a 55 with the demasoni and then use the 95 and 75 for the other species. Also, if the 95 and 75 have the same footprint and the 95 is just taller, it doesnt matter what tank you use as the footprint is what you really want to use to determine stocking levels and species.


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

Well, I am going to look at that 125 gal tank tomorrow. It is a seven footer. As long as it doesnt leak, is not all scratched up, and the stand is in one piece I'm pretty sure I will get it. Can't pass that up for $100.


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## mbamba_boy (May 12, 2012)

I guess I should consider myself lucky with getting such mellow williamsi. Good luck with the tank. That would be a great pickup at $100


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

Hopefully when i do get some they wont be too bad aggressive wise.



> Good luck with the tank. That would be a great pickup at $100


No luck with the tank. The guy sold it out from under me. I set up to go see it yesterday at 5:30 and when I sent him a text to get his address all he responded with was "are you comming now?" No address or anything. I told him yes I was comming and to give me the address, and no response. I asked him for the address a few more times with no response and finaly gave up. This morning I see the same tank and stand in a new picture on craigslist being offered for $300 instead of $100! I texted the guy again and asked him if he sold it and he said "oh yeah, sorry for the late reply, I sold it at 5 pm last night." Grrrr :x . It looks like the new owner wiped down the tank with a damp cloth and reposted it for sale 5 hours after he bought it but for triple the price! Whatever. I found a 150 with a stand that looks to be in better shape anyways and they are asking $250, so I am going to see about that one. Im bound and determined to find a tank so I can get some of these blue lips, lol.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Some people have absolutely no courtesy. Oh the humanity!

Good luck tank hunting...


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Some people have absolutely no courtesy. Oh the humanity!
> 
> Good luck tank hunting...


Tell me about it, lol. Thanks Iggy.

Just out of curiosity, how many fish can you stock in a tank with a 72 by 18 foot print?


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## Mschn99 (Dec 24, 2012)

R6RaVeN37 said:


> Iggy Newcastle said:
> 
> 
> > Some people have absolutely no courtesy. Oh the humanity!
> ...


the amount would greatly vary by they species your thinking. Im assuming it would not be all blue lips.


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

No, it wouldn't be all blue lips. I'm really not sure what else I want to put in there with them. I want to do a group of the blue lips and then stock the rest based on that. Any thoughts?


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## Mschn99 (Dec 24, 2012)

R6RaVeN37 said:


> No, it wouldn't be all blue lips. I'm really not sure what else I want to put in there with them. I want to do a group of the blue lips and then stock the rest based on that. Any thoughts?


Tons of options, IDK where to even start lol. Williamisi do not resemble many species and are larger, which leaves the slate open to many mbuna species. IMO i would stay all mbuna or mbuna and victorians or smaller but more aggressive malawan haps. Peacocks and mild mannered haps will not do well with williamsi IMO


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## Pseudeotropheus BB (Jan 24, 2013)

The Williamsi is an awesome animal so setting up a new tank revolved around them will be killer. I will throw out a few recommendations in no particular fashion. I say if you are working around Williamsi stay away from standard Mbuna and go with the more unique species as the Williamsi is a unique fish.

Psuedeotropheus Longior a rare species which was available earlier in the year from one mail order distributor.

Labidochromis Textilis (Red)-Very nice looking fish which should be more popular in the aquarium hobby, imo. Why go with Cherry Reds if you can get your hands on this fish.

Metriclima Red Top Gallireya
Metriclima Blue Dolphin
Metriclima Membe Deep (tough to find)
Metricliam Msobo-if you cant get your Membe Deep
White Tail Acei-If you can find a nice strain these fish are big and bad looking.

Obviously there are numerous other fantastic fish but I would look very hard into these fish particularly the first two.


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## mbamba_boy (May 12, 2012)

With the color that the williamsi males get I like them grouped with dark fish and really light fish. My favorite combination was when I had them with my chewere and my white labs


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Honestly... If I had two larger tanks(which I do), I wouldn't do both mbuna show tanks. That's just me though. Just a thought... move your current mbuna stock over to the 125 and add the 'williamsi.' Then you have the 90? to try another lake/continent. The BG you have already looks pretty sick, and can be used with all sorts of species, IMO.


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

> I say if you are working around Williamsi stay away from standard Mbuna and go with the more unique species as the Williamsi is a unique fish.


That was kind of my thought.



> I wouldn't do both mbuna show tanks. That's just me though. Just a thought... move your current mbuna stock over to the 125 and add the 'williamsi.' Then you have the 90? to try another lake/continent. The BG you have already looks pretty sick, and can be used with all sorts of species, IMO.


I never really though about putting my current mbuna in the new tank with the williamsi, but that might be a good idea. Then maybe do some Haps or Peacocks in the old 90 gal. Hmmm, decisions, decisions. I know I would like to try something else besides mbuna, just not sure what.

In other news, lol, I went and looked at that 150 gal tank I was talking about, and I bought it :dancing: . Couldnt actually bring it home today since I didnt have enough manpower to get it into the truck, but I will be picking it up saturday. Here are a couple pics. Its in good shape, just needs a good cleaning and the stand could use a little cosmetic work. In the time it takes me to get the tank and stand in order, get the rest of the equipment and such I will need, I should have plenty of time to figure out what i am going to do as far as stocking.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Nice pickup. That stand looks pretty old school...


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Nice pickup. That stand looks pretty old school...


Thanks. Yeah it does. It is structurally solid, but I think I may sand it down and repaint it black and then replace the hinges and handles with brushed nickel hardware. That way it will match my other stands and maybe give it a more "modern" look.


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

Well I picked up the tank yesterday and went right to work cleaning it and refurbing the stand. The stand actually turned out to be a homemade stand, but it was built really well and is super sturdy. I will probably start a build thread for this in the tank setup section, but in the meantime here are some pics.

Tank before I cleaned it.


After cleaning and doing a water test.


Stand how I got it.


Stand after i got done with it.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

You work fast!


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## Mschn99 (Dec 24, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> You work fast!


you should never tell another guy this :fish: opcorn:


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## R6RaVeN37 (Aug 10, 2012)

Mschn99 said:


> Iggy Newcastle said:
> 
> 
> > You work fast!
> ...


Iggy, when I get my mind set on a fish project I get kinda OCD, lol!

Mschn99, that is funny. I dont even know what to say in response :lol:


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