# my ammonia still won't go down



## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

for th e past week I have been doin water changes of at least 25 to 30 % and the ammonia is still high. ( read profile 1n need ,help with ammonia) I thought that it would go down by now but it's still reading 2.0 it won't go lower my nitrate is at about 20 or 30 . any suggestions?


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## Heyguy74 (Aug 11, 2005)

Test your tap water for ammonia. Is your test kit expired? Try taking a water sample to a LFS. they usually test for free.


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## cosmic665 (Oct 4, 2007)

1n n33d said:


> for th e past week I have been doin water changes of at least 25 to 30 % and the ammonia is still high. ( read profile 1n need ,help with ammonia) I thought that it would go down by now but it's still reading 2.0 it won't go lower my nitrate is at about 20 or 30 . any suggestions?


Add a liveplant while your at the LFS. Buy a cheap 3-pack of betta bulbs. They are only a few bucks and they will suck the ammonia out of the water as they grow!


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## spqrzilla (Sep 5, 2006)

Your ammonia will go down when the bacteria population grows to process it. You should read the articles in the Library section on cycling and jump starting the cycle.


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## Burtess (Apr 5, 2006)

spqrzilla said:


> Your ammonia will go down when the bacteria population grows to process it. You should read the articles in the Library section on cycling and jump starting the cycle.


 :thumb:


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## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

the ammonia won't go any lower than 2.0 would it go down on it's own or should I keep doing water changes?


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## spqrzilla (Sep 5, 2006)

Are you doing a fishless cycle or does the tank have fish in it? If it has fish, you need to get the ammonia level lower to avoid harm to them. Water changes are the best way to do that.


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## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

There's 6 starter fish (purple danios)I had since I got the tank to start it up . It's been 2 months


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## Shayman10 (Apr 23, 2007)

What kinda test kit are you using?

What kinda filter you got on the tank?

Are you adding a good declorinator? What kind?

Very wierd.......


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## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

I have a 100 gl canister filter, water changes are done just about every day now and i use prime. I have been having this problem for almost a month in half still no progress


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## smaug67 (Aug 5, 2007)

you need to add something that will accelerate you bacteria levels.bacter boost is a good bet as is liquid gravel vac.What are the rest of your water params?2 months is a long time to have high ammo.


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## mr.fuji (Aug 30, 2007)

why do you keep donig water change? your tank would cycle weeks ago if you leave it alone.


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## spqrzilla (Sep 5, 2006)

Its a myth that water changes delay cycling of a tank. So long as the water contains ammonia, the bacteria population has adequate food to grow. There are things that can delay the growth of the bacteria, and in some cases high levels of ammonia can do that especially with the nitrite to nitrate process. But even if the water change delays a cycle, it can't prevent it and it is good practice to do water changes to prevent harm to fish in a tank that is cycling.

What kind of maintenance are you doing with the filters? Do you try to clean them and how do you do so? A long delayed cycle is not impossible, but I am wondering if you are doing something to defeat the growth of the necessary bacteria colony.

Most of the bacteria additives in the stores are ineffective I believe. I have not had any success with them and I've seen few people claim that they work for them. I experimented once comparing two tanks, one with Cycle and StressZyme and the other without and did not notice any significant difference in time to cycle.

More people report success with Biospira.


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## Shayman10 (Apr 23, 2007)

> why do you keep donig water change?
> 
> 
> > He is trying to keep fish alive....
> ...


Are you adding the prime to the tank and then refilling?

Don't touch the filter. No fish have died? I am thinking there is a carcass in the tank? Is there any organic matter in the tank that could be rotting?

Are you using liquid or strip test kits?

What are the levels out of the tap? What are the levels out of the tap after declor?


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## smaug67 (Aug 5, 2007)

1n n33d
that all sounds like great advice from anyone,but if you are having actual high ammo do not hesitate to use the additive I recomended.in my tanks it is a proven performer as well as with everyone I know.If your problem will not go away according to your tests, definetly get your water tested by a pro,ie,not most fish shops,get it done by a water testing company.good luck


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## ed8t (Sep 22, 2007)

You have Nitrate readings so your setup is processing ammonia.

I suspect you are using a Nessler based ammonia test. Prime will give a false positive with a Nessler based test kit. IIRC, Nessler based kits just uses 1 reagent, can't remember the name of the other ammonia test kit type, but it typically uses several reagents.

http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html

Try a regular water conditioner without any ammolock or fancy ammonia/nitrite reducing capabilities after your next waterchange to see if that makes any difference. If it shows no ammonia, it doesn't mean Prime is bad (I use it myself), but just expect false ammonia readings just after adding Prime. Prime should decipate after 24 hours, so you could just wait a day or so before testing if you have no other water conditioners. Risky though if you do have an ammonia problem.


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## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

I haven't done a water change in about 2 weeks or so to see if the amnonia would go down . Well it stays steady at about 1.0. Today I put some ammo lock to see if it would help but instead the amnonia went up to about 4.0. Any suggestions???


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## thetim6 (Jan 24, 2003)

ed8t said:


> I suspect you are using a Nessler based ammonia test. Prime will give a false positive with a Nessler based test kit. IIRC, Nessler based kits just uses 1 reagent, can't remember the name of the other ammonia test kit type, but it typically uses several reagents.
> 
> http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html


It's possible that ed8t is right. Prime turns the ammonia into a non toxic form, but it will still be read on some test kits beyond toxic levels.

Also, I found this about Ammo Lock, it sounds just like Prime IMO.

*
"Ammo-Lock detoxifies or "locks up" ammonia instantly. Although the ammonia is still present in the water, it is not toxic to aquatic life."
*

_http://www.equarium.com.au/store/detail.asp?id=222&cat=3_


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## gacichlids (Sep 19, 2007)

I use Amquel instead of ammolock and it also reads false positive for about 24 hours after adding, then it starts to go down. I have high ammonia in my well water and city water supplies are often fairly high these days according to some stuff I've been reading, high enough that some ill people and maybe stressed fish would not fare well.

I had real problems till I started using amquel with water changes and added the cycle. I prefer biozyme, but can't find it. Anyway, test your tap water with a liquid kit, water changes aren't lowering your ammonia, it is likely that your cities supply is high. I think this is a real health problem since many people do not handle ammonia very well.

Anyway, i hope your tank is doing well now. The cycle kicked mine off good by pouring in the filter and also the addition of some bubble walls to add a lot of aeration has helped and will lower the ammonia too. I'm not big on plants because my fish seem to tear them up, but I do have one planted tank that is was doing better than the rest due to the plants.


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## cutsik (Nov 27, 2007)

8) try borrowing someone dirty filter that mite help because generaly that is high in bacteria and it should help with the situation


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## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

I did a wter change of more than 3/4 of the water the ammmonia went down to about .25 . 2 days ago instead of the ammonia goin down it's slowly going back up.????It's been almost 4 months already. Any suggestions???....


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## Fl00d_Pr0z (Nov 7, 2007)

Have you added any treatment to your tank to get rid of the ammonia ?


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## gacichlids (Sep 19, 2007)

Be careful with the dirty filter and water as it can spread diseases like ick and cause a whole new problem. Cycle and some of the other similar biological starter products workd pretty well esp. if you put a lot in. Amquel or Ammolock is what you need for the ammonia. It sounds like you may have a lot of fish or may be feeding a food that is causing a lot of ammonia, like frozen food or food that isn't getting eaten or sours when it breaks down. With a lot of fish you may need to change some water every week. It sounds like your biological filter is not established. If you have an undergravel, I would consider changeing to a sponge or overflow filter. I would add the cycle directly to the filter and also to the tank water and add the amquel, at least as much as specified. You can add little more of these things than recommended without a problem. you need the amquel or ammolock to neutralize the ammonia from the fish waste and old food until your nitrifying bacteria (found in the Cycle or Biozyme or StressZyme) gets established. I would be very liberal in added the Cycle or similar products. You should be fine.


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## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

I don't have any fish only 2 starter fish . I have added cycle, ammolock (when putting it in the ammonia goes sky rocket high), prime,cycle boost and many other things .Not all at once but I have . Nothing seems to work. The ammonia is back up to like .50 or so. The only reason it went down was because of the water change but it's going back up...????I am about to give up


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## spqrzilla (Sep 5, 2006)

The products like Cycle, StressZyme etc., do not appear to me to be effective. It just takes time.


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## doghair (Oct 22, 2007)

What are the readings for ammonia out of your tap?

If you have ammonia in your water prior to adding Prime it could explain some of this.


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## Shayman10 (Apr 23, 2007)

Your test kit is bad.

or

Something is being done to disrupt the cycle.

or

something is in your tank producing massive amounts ammonia, i.e. dead fish etc....

What kind of filtration and test kit do you have?

Stop adding all the junk(cycle, ammolock etc....) to the tank. It is not needed!

Don't give up!!


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## gacichlids (Sep 19, 2007)

If you have ammonia in your tap water, you need to add a product like amquel or ammolock to it when doing a water change unless you have a big build up of nitrifying bacteria, which you don't apparently. You can not add anything and wait and eventually, maybe, things will straighten out, but fish may die. Using the appropriate water conditioners at the right amount is effective and not harmful--I have high ammonia in my tap water so I know and was having the same problem, water changes making it worse. I now have no problem, added the biologicals and the amquel as directed and now my fish are breeding like crazy and doing well and my biological filter has a chance to develop now that it is not being overwhelmed by high ammonia. I also agree with the point made to make sure that you don't have anything else contributing like overfeeding, dead fish under rocks or something you cant see. Without testing your tap water with a proper test kit, there is no way to know. Like I said, amquel to my new water duing water changes and cycle in the filter once I got my ammonia problem treated with the amquel made all the difference. But I tested everything. And I don't add cycle to the tank I add it to the filter medium.


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## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

my tap water ammonia is at 0. I don't have dead fish in htere i only have 2. I clean and change water do everything i can I recently change the sponges in the filter , but we'll see.


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## Fl00d_Pr0z (Nov 7, 2007)

If you recently changed the sponges in the filter that will contribute to the high ammonia. You lost all the bacteria that was colonized on it.


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## Shayman10 (Apr 23, 2007)

Don't touch the filter/filters. Don't vac the gravel. Don't do anything! let it cycle.

If you do any partial water changes for the fish you have in the tank. add a quality declorinator that deals with clorine and cloramine to the tank before you fill it.

Don't touch the filters!

I feel like a broken record....What kind of test kit are you using?? What do you have in the canister filter?? What type of filter is it? You mentioned it was a 100 gl canister. Do you know what brand and size it is?

When/if you do water changes just change out the water. Don't touch the filter.

Be patient!


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## baw (Nov 6, 2007)

Hi

I am having the exact same problem. I have a very small reading of ammonia in my tap water. But as soon as I treat the water with prime the ammonia readings sky rocket. I also have the seachem ammonia multi test. Even though I am getting the high readings of ammonia after treating with prime the seachem kit is telling me that its non toxic ammonia. Again, my tap water before adding prime shows very little ammonia.


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## spqrzilla (Sep 5, 2006)

That is chloramines being broken up by the Prime into chlorine and ammonia and then binding the ammonia. That is what Prime is supposed to do. The ammonia should soon be processed by your biofilter once your tank is cycled.


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## gacichlids (Sep 19, 2007)

If your tap water is at zero, no need for amquel when changing water. I aggree with flood, Changing the sponges in the filter would not be the best thing to do as that is where all the ammonia eating bacteria is. If you raally feel you have an ammonia problem in your tank, then I would make sure the tank is clean by vacuuming the gravel, if you have gravel, adding only enough water to bring the level back up to what it was, adding some cycle or other live bacteria to the tank to jumpstart the new sponges, and add some amquel, which also treats excess nitrates and nitrites as well as ammonia to your tank sparingly. You will still test positive for ammoia with some test kits, but the ammonia will be neutralized and you should see a difference in your fish and you will see the development of the nitrate/nitrite cycle eventually. Are the fish really stressed with fraying fins or do they seem normal? Perhaps you got a bad test kit somehow. Also, feeding a good high protein food like omega or nls will help and feeding only what the fish will eat in 5 minutes and scooping out any extra with a net. This is all I can think of to help.


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## cosmic665 (Oct 4, 2007)

1n n33d said:


> my tap water ammonia is at 0. I don't have dead fish in htere i only have 2. I clean and change water do everything i can I recently change the sponges in the filter , but we'll see.


Have you taken a sample of your aquarium water and the tap water used in your water changes to a local LFS to verify ammonia levels? What kind of substrate and decorations do you have in your tank? Do you have any plants in your water or have you considered adding a live plant?

It's been my experience with fish keeping that sometimes it doesn't matter what you try to do to remedy a situation, until you leave things alone for about a week or so. Sometimes it can work itself out. I had a similar issue with my 55 gallon tank a while back. I changed the filters and my water stayed a cloudy white color. No matter how much filtration I threw on the tank or water changes I did the problem would not go away for several weeks. I stopped feeding of my fish for about a week and changed my water a little less frequently and the problem went away.


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## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

I have a 100 gl canister penn plax cascade filter.Even changing the sponges the ammonia is at least at .50. The other sponges were really I mean realy dirty!!!!!It has been cycling for at least 3 months already that should have enough time It's why I decided to change the sponges I am running out of options.I have tried just about everything that has been recomended .I use liquid test kit and it's just new..


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## bell (Dec 12, 2005)

1n n33d said:


> I have a 100 gl canister penn plax cascade filter.Even changing the sponges the ammonia is at least at .50. The other sponges were really I mean realy dirty!!!!!It has been cycling for at least 3 months already that should have enough time It's why I decided to change the sponges I am running out of options.I have tried just about everything that has been recomended .I use liquid test kit and it's just new..


you said your sponges were really dirty.......well that was probably benificial bacteria....
stop adding chemicals to the tank and add a couple more goldfish and....ready for this?....DON'T TOUCH IT!!! give it a month or so and it'll be fine, i think you have been throwing the system all out of wack by doing too many water changes and adding chemicals before the system was fully cycled and with a minor fish load the cycle could take longer than normal.
take your readings if you like but stop adding chemicals, the ammonia will spike heavily for a couple days at the very end of it's cycle, the ammonia will disappear seemingly overnight when it is established.


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## spqrzilla (Sep 5, 2006)

Water changes can't stop a cycle from progressing, it is only ethical to do water changes to control ammonia and nitrite while cycling with fish.


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## gacichlids (Sep 19, 2007)

I don't know what Prime is, but you said earlier your ammonia spiked after adding it. I would switch from that product to another product that primarily treats ammonia. If you don't get the ammonia level down, it will be difficult to get the tank established. But you only need to treat the water once, when you put it in. Adding biologicals like cycle, which contains the actual bacteria you are trying to grow will help. Sponge filters take a long time to get established from an ammonia standpoint simply because they don't contain charcoal or zeolite. I would switch from prime to something along the lines of ammolock, or better yet amquel, which clears ammonia, chlorine and chloramines and excess nitrates and nitrites. Ammolock does not clear excess nitrates and nitrites. Also, adding more "junk" fish is a good thing just to get the tank started, even danios, rainbows, rosy reds goldfish--though they might hurt your cichlids, guppies, something just to get more fish in there and get the cycle going. If you know someone or a pet store that you really trust, you can ask for a bag of aquarium water from them. I think the problem may be the prime. If you have high ammonia, you need to add something to the water, or change the water partially, though in doing so it can make it harder to get the tank established. Chlorine reducing stuff does not fix ammonia, you need a specific product that does ammonia. Adding plenty of air, airstones, bubblewalls, healthy plants can sometimes help since the tank needs oxygen to properly cycle. I just got a new tank, added biological water treatment, tap water with ammonia present not real high but enough to overwhelm a new tank, added amquel per directions, added crushed coral substrate and fish. Will leave alone and not even adjust ph because its at 8 and will leave it until it is established. I will not do any water changes until a few weeks from now, then only partial less than 1/4, just what I suck out vaccuuming. There are also bags you can place in your filter or tank of ammonia abssorbing white rock that you can put in filter or just in tank if your fish will leave it alone. You really should just rinse your old sponges in cold water until you get out most of the yucky new gunk but not get them totally clean and put them back in. You said the ammonia went up after the prime, it should not go up, it should still read the same. This tells me that perhaps it neutralized something that resulted in ammonia as a byproduct and that ammonia was never treated. If you continue to use the prime, I expect you will keep getting the same results, if it is the problem. I would really not waste time and get a product to treat ammonia and treat your tank and maybe add some biologicals or put the old sponges in and let it sit and do nothing, with more fish perhaps.


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## Hemlock (Sep 21, 2006)

Go get some fritz turbo start it's the best I have tried bio-spira didn't work after some research i found fritz turbo start they only overnight it to you to guarantee freshness. Hands down the best!!
Heres the link good luck. http://www.fritzpet.com/index.html


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## riffraffxl (Aug 2, 2007)

gacichlids said:


> I don't know what Prime is, but you said earlier your ammonia spiked after adding it. I would switch from that product to another product that primarily treats ammonia.


Prime is not the problem. It's a good water conditioner.


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## gacichlids (Sep 19, 2007)

Well, if it raises the ammonia, perhaps there is a problem with the specific bottle, it may be old or not shook up or defective or something. You can't say its not the prime because you don't know. He states it raises after he addes the Prime. It should not raise the ammonia level, even in neutralizing it.

Regardless, if I were having this much trouble, I would certainly try something else to see if it works better. Amquel is safe for salt and freshwater and for invertebrates and will not harm the biological filter. I didn't see that prime was ok for this in the description but seachem is a good company. It sounds like it tries to do everything. There are plenty of good products on the market.


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## spqrzilla (Sep 5, 2006)

gacachlids, when Prime splits the chloramine in the water supply into chlorine and ammonia, then any test that measures total ammonia is going to note the rise even if Prime has bound the ammonia.

Any other treatment would behave similarily in the presence of chloramine.


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## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

I have tried everything that has been recomended in this forum.When the ammonia started going up about 2in a half months ago I let it sit for about a week or so but the ammonia never went down that is when I started doing water partial water changes without chemicals yet but the ammonia still didn't go down thay's when I started doin water changes with some chemicals I didn't use more than one at a time or before I was done one bottle it's been very long . I only have 2 danios rite now and 2 yellow labs I got tired of seeing an empty tank.It's been 3 moths!!!!!!!! All last week I didn't change the water or added anything and it's still going up. Shouldn't it have been cycled A LONG time ago???Ammo lock is even worst when I add it in if my ammonia is at .25 it goes straight to 4.0 or even 8.0..??????


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## geelite (Dec 4, 2007)

Their is one thing i know works & it really does do its job. ABIL Nitrifying Solution from Avecom, this is the real deal & it REALLY works, it will cycle a NEW tank in 8 days! :thumb:


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## spqrzilla (Sep 5, 2006)

1n n33d said:


> Ammo lock is even worst when I add it in if my ammonia is at .25 it goes straight to 4.0 or even 8.0..??????


The tank seems to have lost its earlier cycle - we have been wondering if the biofilter was disrupted somehow. I think you still need to continue monitorning.

Ammolock cannot increase the amount of ammonia in your tank. It will only reduce to free ammonia to bound ammonia. Your earlier description of increased ammonia was linked to your dechlorination of tap water, which can happen.

Continue to do water changes to reduce ammonia amounts if they reach toxic levels.


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## baw (Nov 6, 2007)

Here is some info on ammo lock from their website....

Ammo-Lock will neutralize chloramine and make the ammonia non-toxic to all aquarium life. The term "ammonia remover" is somewhat misleading. No liquid ammonia remover actually removes ammonia from the aquarium. These products claim to make the ammonia non-toxic or convert it to something else. Even though some ammonia tests kits may read zero after adding liquid ammonia removers, you can (in laboratory tests) track the conversion of the ammonia to nitrite, then to nitrate, by the biological filter. Let me explain.

Under sterile conditions where no biological filtration is taking place, we add a few ppm of ammonia to the aquarium. We then can watch certain ammonia removers make the ammonia disappear after one or two doses. The ammonia test kit reads zero. After a few days, the liquid ammonia remover begins to break down and the test kit reads positive again. The same amount of ammonia that was in the water before adding the ammonia remover is back again!

The ammonia was never gone; you just could not read it on the ammonia test kit. Ammo-Lock does not cause ammonia kits to blank out. If your test kit showed 1.0 ppm ammonia before adding AL, it will show 1.0 ppm ammonia after adding AL. When the test kit is blanked out, you cannot see if the biological filter is working. How will you know if the ammonia level is going down, going up, or just sitting there? With AL you can watch the development of the biological filter and see if the ammonia is being biologically converted to nitrite and nitrate.


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## gacichlids (Sep 19, 2007)

What sqrzilla is saying is exactly right and makes perfect since since chloramine is chlorine bound with ammonia as a way of reducing high ammonia in certain urban areas, I just read something about this because of my well water causing potential problems and trying to find out what the acceptable limit is for ammonia. Listen to what he is saying. That is why the elevation of ammonia, which is benign, the high reading doesn't mean anything, your fish would be dead at the numbers you quote. Having only four little fish depending on the size of tank may take forever to cycle without additives like the ABIL or cycle or something, there's likely better stuff than cycle, but it worked ok for me. Now with new sponges it will take longer. In the old days, we used to have to treat water with chemicals and let it sit overnight before adding fish, or adding the new water to the tank, but the chemicals now are better.

I'm sorry I didn't think of that, I forgot since I haven't had city water in a long time so I haven't had to deal with that for 15 years. I have well water with no chlorine or chloramines just naturally high ammonia and so that is why my ammonia level doesn't rise when I add chemicals, though I still see the same readings in ammonia level than before I added the chemicals but the ammonia reading after treatment MEANS NOTHING since the ammonia is neutralized by the chemicals.

What matters is that the ammonia is properly treated with the proper amount of chemical and not too much or too little, and the demeanor of my fish changes, I don't have problems with food souring quickly and I have proper algae growth. If you have algae, then you can be pretty sure that your ammonia is not elevated beyond a safe range per your chemical treatment. Believe me if your ammonia was really high, your danios and labs would be dying and you would have no algae. I can tell you that my big hardy fish got pretty ragged and prone to illness at a true low-med rise in ammonia and also from frequent water changes where I was added fresh ammonia unknowingly. My tanks had no algae growth whatsoever, crystal clear to cloudy at times and definitely toxic.

Geelite sounds like he's on to something too and I don't see where it would hurt. Like I said, I had good responses with cycle and similar bacteriologicals. More fish, maybe a catfish or other bottom cleaner, and some mbuna or something else you like, and leaving it alone at this point may help. I certainly wouldn't add any new water for a while unless for some other reason you absolutely must. Maybe treat it with only the proper amount of chemicals and let it set overnight before adding it to give the chemicals time to work, if you are really worried.

I'm sorry you are going through this, it sounds horribly frustrating, but I think you are in the clear though your test kit says otherwise. I just didn't understand the rise in ammonia after tx, but sqrzilla is totally right and be sure to read the instructions for how much to add if you have chloramines.

If you still have any concerns about your tap water quality, you might talk to the dept of natural resources and their fishery people they may be able to help you with water chemistry oddities in your area and they test water for free, the fisheries are really cool to visit. You may just not have enough fish in there to create enough waste for it to cycle in a reasonable amount of time. I don't know. I wish you the best and I'm sorry I couldn't be more help but it sounds like you got the answers up above. But I am trying to help, since I had a similar problem, though not the same. My tank took four months to get straightened out but only a month after adding cycle and had brown and green algal growth as well once I figured out the ammonia issue and treated it properly and got everybody well again.


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## riffraffxl (Aug 2, 2007)

gacichlids said:


> Well, if it raises the ammonia, perhaps there is a problem with the specific bottle, it may be old or not shook up or defective or something. You can't say its not the prime because you don't know. He states it raises after he addes the Prime. It should not raise the ammonia level, even in neutralizing it.
> 
> Regardless, if I were having this much trouble, I would certainly try something else to see if it works better. Amquel is safe for salt and freshwater and for invertebrates and will not harm the biological filter. I didn't see that prime was ok for this in the description but seachem is a good company. It sounds like it tries to do everything. There are plenty of good products on the market.


If you think I'm wrong it helps to know what prime is...


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## gacichlids (Sep 19, 2007)

I did look it up as you can see from the quote and I didn't think it was all that, from the sales blurb. And people do occasionally get bad product, or buy sale product or pet stores sometimes sell old stuff, you never know till you try something else. You obviously didn't know why the ammonia level was rising or you would have said something to clue this person in, hey it has to do with the breakdown of chloramines, there done. Instead of simply adding negative comments, why not say something helpful and provide some explanation, that way you can display your vast wealth of knowledge accumulated in your many years in the trade in a positive way as sqrzilla did? :idea:


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## riffraffxl (Aug 2, 2007)

lol, take a chill pill



gacichlids said:


> I did look it up as you can see from the quote and I didn't think it was all that, from the sales blurb. And people do occasionally get bad product, or buy sale product or pet stores sometimes sell old stuff, you never know till you try something else. You obviously didn't know why the ammonia level was rising or you would have said something to clue this person in, hey it has to do with the breakdown of chloramines, there done.


I actually DID know that. For example, I also know that some dechlorinators like Amquel can lead to false positives for ammonia when using Nessler regents.

This is not the question I was addressing. I was more concerned with whether or not Prime was PREVENTING the tank from cycling and I felt the advice given was misleading. I do not think Prim is PREVENTING the tank from cycling. That is the issue I am answering, and, IMO, an important one.

It does not, of course, address why the tank hasn't cycled yet. False positvies might explain his readings, but might not explain why his tank hasn't cycled (e.g. experiencing fish mortality).



> Instead of simply adding negative comments, why not say something helpful and provide some explanation, that way you can display your vast wealth of knowledge accumulated in your many years in the trade in a positive way as sqrzilla did? :idea:


I did, that is why I posted in the first place. To be frank I disagree with a bunch of other stuff you said (e.g. like saving tank water) but I just wanted to, in my view, correct you on one thing, which I think will be beneficial for the original poster. Believe it or not I'm not here to nitpick on your post. I posted because I disagreed. 



> I did look it up as you can see from the quote


This is kinda irrelevant because I was wary of the fact that you blamed it initially without knowing what it was. Anyway, I'm not here to get in a big argument. There is room for disagreement in fishkeeping.


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## gacichlids (Sep 19, 2007)

> There is room for disagreement in fishkeeping.


There isn't if you keep on picking apart and misquoting me instead of advancing your own point of view. You have offered little real practical advice, more reactionary statements to what others have said.

How you can disagree with getting some reliable, broken in water from a reliable source to help cycle a tank is old school info, is beyond me, its the same as getting a broken in filter cartridge, which is how I cycle my new tanks, since I have 7 now and three ponds and others mentioned the same thing without you correcting them. I have brought all these tanks up in 4 mos and fry to breeders and successfully bred in that amount of time, even with well water quality setbacks.

Cycle and other similar products have been successful for some aquarium keepers, another point you chose to only disagree with me on. 
I said nothing about saving tank water. I said try treating your new water you plan to add toyour tank during water changes the night before to give the chemicals time to break down the chloramines and other chemicals. This is something that is not usually necessary nowadays but in the old days we used to have to do this with the older chemicals. It certainly doesn't hurt anything.
Just because other people have preferences for other products doesn't make them wrong.

I clarified that I thought that perhaps the problem with prime could have to do with the specific bottle not the product as a whole since I have never used it, it may not work as well as other products in different water, though it may work fine for you.

Also note that one point that may have contributed to the problems cycling is that in the beginning there were water changes made without treating the new water added and that situation has been corrected.

The loss of the old sponges was another setback.

I thought the info given by haw was great about ammolock and a good case for that product, and since it seemed to neutralize more chloramines by showing a greater increase in ammonia than the prime, perhaps it works better in some cases.

The bottom line is, this is all personal preference. If something you are doing is not working, you can bang your head against the wall doing the same thing over and over hoping to get a different result, you can wait to see if things change, or you can change what hasn't been changed. All are approaches to solving a problem.

I'm sorry you take issue with so much that I said, I can only think that perhaps the issue is a personal one. I just hope that the poster got answers to his questions, which is the real reason anyone should be posting. I am not lol, but sad and disappointed by this childish banter, which is little more than a stupid contest that gets no one anywhere and you need to play it with someone else, I find it negative and a waste of space and do take offense.


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## riffraffxl (Aug 2, 2007)

I don't think my tone is transmitting through the text.



gacichlids said:


> How you can disagree with getting some reliable, broken in water from a reliable source to help cycle a tank is old school info, is beyond me


I disagree with the idea that saving tank water OR using tank water from established tanks will substantially speed up a cycle, since nitrifying bacteria tend to adhere to surfaces (such as biomedia) and will not be in abundance in the water itself. While this may seem counterintuitive, this is my understanding of the issue. I have certainly heard the opposing viewpoint many times.

Just to clarify, I feel that while a tank is cycling, if there are fish in the tank, the moral thing to do is to continue doing water changes. This will not prevent a tank from cycling.



> , its the same as getting a broken in filter cartridge, which is how I cycle my new tanks,


No it is not. I do agree that using old filter media will speed up a cycle.



> Cycle and other similar products have been successful for some aquarium keepers, another point you chose to only disagree with me on.


I have no experience with Cycle, nor do I recall commenting specifically on this product. I have heard good things about bio-spira, and if I were to use something to speed up a cycle, I would use this.



> I'm sorry you take issue with so much that I said, I can only think that perhaps the issue is a personal one.


Yes, having never met you before and having no axe to grind, it must be personal. :roll: I just came in here to suggest that Prime is not the problem. It may or may not lead to false positives for free ammonia, I don't know for sure, but it should not prevent a cycle.

Hopefully this will be it on this sub-topic. No offense originally intended and I'll leave it at that. As for anyone else reading, feel free to correct me on any issues and I hope the OP solves his problem.


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## Shayman10 (Apr 23, 2007)

1n n33d-How are your water parameters? ammo nitrite and nitrate??

Using water from an established tank is a waste. If you can get some water, get media or at the least some substrate.

Cycle or anything with "zyme" in the label is usually junk.

Prime is a great product. Many "detoxifing" products can give false positives on water tests.

Remember....If it is OK to think you are correct, it's OK for someone else to think you're not!


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## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

I do the ammonia test and it will read about .25 or .50 but if I let sit for 15 minutes or more it reads 0...???????My nitrate is at 20 ppm and my nirite is at 0 ppm . Also I added another filter a 100 gallon peen plaxcascade. Any suggestions?


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## 1n n33d (Oct 27, 2007)

it has been over a year and my tank has been doin ok I just wanted to know how fast do the yellow lab babies start to show color because I have a female that has given birth alreasy 4 times and none of her babies are yellow they look like gold fish some of them are already 4 months and they look grey with just a tidi widi lil bit of yellow . I went to me local fs and I seen other baby labx and they are so yellow I wonder if mine are mixed. :-?


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