# Who am I?



## Filet O Fish (Apr 26, 2012)

Thanks, 
Matt


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## Filet O Fish (Apr 26, 2012)

Nevermind. I think he's a Aulonocara Masoni. Anyone think not?


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

No such species. Try again.


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## famikert (Feb 20, 2003)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1385


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Well, in any event, it is not an A. masoni.

He is either a chubby lousy body shape S. fryeri, or a Fryeri hybrid. Might be Fryeri X Aulonocara.


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## Filet O Fish (Apr 26, 2012)

"Chubby lousy body shape...."???


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Filet O Fish said:


> "Chubby lousy body shape...."???


What is meant is that it doesn't have the streamlined body that one would expect of Scieanochromis fryeri, leading one to suspect that it is might be a fryeri x Aulonocara hybrid, which is quite common.


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## Filet O Fish (Apr 26, 2012)

Fogelhund said:


> Filet O Fish said:
> 
> 
> > "Chubby lousy body shape...."???
> ...


Ah, I see. Hope it's not from over feeding. That's pretty much the way he came though. At least I got an idea now. He's a friendly fish and a keeper.

Thanks guys.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

Try this one instead.http://www.fishbase.org and type Aulonocara into the genus box.

Nothing personal, but this site's profile of "Aulonocara masoni" has no mention of an author or a date of publication for the name. It was a mistake that someone made, writing it as a scientific name when it was most likely a trade name like Kenyi or Acei.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Yep its a fryeri hybrid by the looks and not a Aulonocara masoni now considered a regional variant of Aulonocara stuartgranti along with Aulonocara hansbaenschi and Aulonocara steveni and I think Aulonocara maulana and some others.
Yep lots of Aulonocara species names did not stand later scrutiny.
Good that its still there though, imports were sold as this and the line may still exist under this name.

All the best James


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## Filet O Fish (Apr 26, 2012)

Mr Chromedome said:


> Try this one instead.http://www.fishbase.org and type Aulonocara into the genus box.
> 
> Nothing personal, but this site's profile of "Aulonocara masoni" has no mention of an author or a date of publication for the name. It was a mistake that someone made, writing it as a scientific name when it was most likely a trade name like Kenyi or Acei.


Hey, that's fine. But I would like to know why "fishbase" is a more credible source than CF...


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Filet O Fish said:


> Hey, that's fine. But I would like to know why "fishbase" is a more credible source than CF...


Experience. :wink:


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

Fishbase is run by taxonomists, not hobbyists, and is mostly based on scientific papers and publications. For name validity I also use the Calacademy database, but they don't have pictures. Pure publication tracking. Neither of these list undescribed species, which with Malawian Cichlids, undescribed or unidentified covers about 1/3 to 1/2 the "species" in the hobby.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Hate to be a pedant but fishbase does have pics.
Just not very good ones.
http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Aulonoc ... ranti.html
then you can link to photos but not all are right.
http://images.google.com/search?hl=en&q ... g&tbm=isch

Thing is it still lists stuff like Aulonocara hansbaenschi now a junior synonym of Aulonocara stuartgranti.
I could go on and on about how slow it is to change and keep up.
Prob best cichlid cover our good friends http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/default.php
Only prob is you get frustrated not being able to see or read it all unless you pay to become a subscriber.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

But hybrids like the one asked about. Kind of real hard to tell someone how to Id those.  
You kind of just learn the common ones from experience I think.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

LFSs are kind of well known for just not labeling up hybrids.
They usualy know (or at least suspect) but are reluctant to say. Kind of not in thier interest as often loses the sale and you of caurse have no comeback as they never said it was anything pure. :dancing:


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

Calacademy Catalogue of Fishes http://research.calacademy.org/redi.../research/ichthyology/catalog/fishcatmain.asp is the one that doesn't have pictures. They do, however, have the most up to date database of valid names from publication. Others do not always agree with them, and there are a few opinions that are not reflected there because no actual paper was published, such as the use of _Tropheops_ as a genus. However, it does give a history of the name and the papers that list them.

Incidentally, _A. hansbaenschi_ is still considered a valid name scientifically. Perhaps you are thinking of a misidentified population that was determined to be _stuartgranti_ rather than _hansbaenschi_.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Mr Chromedome said:


> Incidentally, _A. hansbaenschi_ is still considered a valid name scientifically. Perhaps you are thinking of a misidentified population that was determined to be _stuartgranti_ rather than _hansbaenschi_.


Realy kind of odd its only a junior synonym on cichlid room companion.
http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/genus.php?id=5
Kind of think the taxonomists missed the paper. :wink:


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Quote
Original description as Aulonocara stuartgranti:

Meyer, Manfred & R. Riehl. 1985. "Aulonocara baenschi n. sp. und Aulonocara stuartgranti n. sp., zwei neue Taxa aus der Familie Cichlidae vom Malawi-See (Pisces, Perciformes, Cichlidae)". H.A. Baensch & R. Riehl, Aquarien Atlas, Band II. pp. 836-846 (crc00061).

Synonyms:

Aulonocara hansbaenschi Meyer, Riehl & Zetzsche, 1987, With type locality at 8 km south of Masinje, Lake Malawi, Malawi. Determiner: Konings, 1999.
Aulonocara steveni Meyer, Riehl & Zetzsche, 1987, With type locality at Kande Island, Lake Malawi, Malawi. Determiner: Konings, 1995.

Taxonomic history:

Aulonocara 'blue collar', Ribbink et al, 1983, provisional name.
Aulonocara stuartgranti, Meyer et al, 1985, original combination.
Aulonocara steveni, Konings, 1995, junior synonym.
Aulonocara hansbaenschi, Konings, 1999, junior synonym.

Aulonocara stuartgranti Meyer & Riehl, 1985 (valid)
Aulonocara hansbaenschi Meyer, Riehl & Zetzsche, 1987 (synonym)

Do you think Konings over stepped the mark in 1999?

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Konings, Ad. 1999. "Aulonocara: interesting peacocks". Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine. v. 47(n. 10), pp. 78-86 (crc04095).


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

Without having read it, all I can say is that an article in TFH that is not written in the proscribed manner as a scientific paper will not be recognized as a scientific paper. As noted before, hobby sites, even cichlidae.com, do not limit themselves to scientific writings, nor to described species only. I believe Konings is the primary reviewer of Malawi Cichlid entries in the cichlidae.com species catalogue, so I would suspect a bit of prejudicial treatment based on his opinions. In 2003 Tawil, in his description of _Aulonocara koningsi_ (insert irony here), mentioned _hansbaenschi_ as a valid species in the _stuartgranti_ complex. Last reference takes precedence in the scientific listings unless the paper is judged as invalid.

However, if you want my personal opinion, there is only one extremely variable species to which all Peacocks belong, _Aulonocara nyassae_, identifiable by the fact that virtually all the females look the same! :wink:


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Well I for sure am a lumper rather than a splitter but even I would not go that far!

Kind of wish Ad Konings would write a few scientific articles and get em published in recognised journals or get someone to do it for him. That way the scientists could catch up. Or disagree or at least comment. They will prob just continue to inore stuff in hobbyist mags.  
Kind of like that A.koningsi joke. :thumb:

Arg kind of hate this naming fish after folk. To me a species name should help to discribe the species.


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