# Jack Dempseys don't pair bond??



## lmhollist (Aug 7, 2009)

I've been in the process of rebonding my male JD with another female (his original mate was way too aggressive so I separated them). Currently he's alone in a 75 except for some dithers. In about a week I'm probably going to pick up some smaller females and see if he pairs up with one of them.

Big however....

I've been maintaining a thread on another forum about this whole process and recently someone came out of nowhere and posted that JDs aren't pair bonders. Essentially, they just come together to mate and then go back to maintaining their own respective territories. SO according to this person, I would need to keep them separate except for when the female is gravid and ready to breed again.

This is just contrary to everything I've ever read about Jack Dempseys, and goes against the common "wisdom" on this forum about them. However, it's not entirely an unreasonable thought. Is this possible it's true? I understand that they are highly aggressive towards other jacks, but I thought that didn't include a bonded pair.

I dunno, I feel so lost and confused now. I never wanted to keep a breeding pair of Jacks that I constantly had to keep separate and then match up whenever I wanted them to breed ... it's ridiculous.


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## Riceburner (Sep 3, 2008)

I've had a couple of pairs swap mates before....well the female of one pair took the male of the other pair anyways. ...the home wrecker!


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## marinerm10 (Feb 2, 2010)

I am glad you posted this because I am wondering the same thing.....Mine paired off with a female from a young age but I seperated them due to aggression and frequent infertile eggs she practically dehomed him.....I got a new Jack and confused it with a female so he beat it up.....then I got a new female and I am waiting to put it in but I am doing some research as to whether she will be beat up too....


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## lmhollist (Aug 7, 2009)

Seems like people have more issues with this than I thought. You always see the tank size posted for pairs is a 55 minimum (although I think a 75 ought to be the minimum size, but that's just my opinion...) but how is this possible if they really don't pair up? One would probably destroy the other in a battle for territory if they really don't bond....

The impression I got from this guy's response was that you at the very least had to divide them when not breeding, or move the female (or male) to a separate tank (which is ridiculous).

At the same time, it seems like I've read countless success stories on people keeping their pairs together in the same tank for years, even to the point that several of their offspring survived and existed in the same tank with the parents. I just don't know what to think ... wish there were some hard and fast rules to this sometimes.


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

I had 2 EBJD\JD pairs, one pair has a very strong bond and they do everything together and to raise fry together and I never separate them.

Another pair was not a strong bond and the female JD hardly bothered to protect her eggs and one of them ate the wrigglers before any of them became free swimming. So to try and strengthen their bonds I would put in other fish for them to defend their territory together and it seemed to be working. I tried a pair of Cons and another male EBJD at separate occasions and they both worked together to make life **** for the intruders. I always took the other fish out before any of them got hurt though so don't any one worry about the fish.

Anyway tonight I decided to see what would happen if I put in my biggest male JD, he's about 7 inches and my pair is about 6 inches each. Well to my surprise, my female JD almost immediately paired up with the JD, I guess she saw him as a more viable mate, bigger and stronger, Within 20 minutes my male EBJD was hiding in the corner.

So unfortunately I'm going to look for another female JD for my EBJD and hope I can get them to bond better.

Anyway, I guess my point is, fish are like people depending on personalities and how they match up you never know what you're going to get. Sorry for the long rambling story.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I think the probably lies with the term 'monogamy' and how it relates to cichlids.

Monogamy does not refer to mating for life in most cichlids (there are a few Rift Lake exceptions from Lake Tanganyika). It simply refers to keeping one mate through a single breeding cycle. This opposed to harem breeders that will breed with multiple females even if another female has fry from the same male.

In nature, if the female is not ready to breed again after the fry were old enough to leave on their own ... the male will chase her off and court another female ready to lay eggs. This is still monogamy in fish terms as the previous breeding cycle has ended.

We tend to think of monogamy as for life becuase that is how it is seen in our society and certain other mammals like wolves. Even the modern deffination lists it as being married to one person at a time or having one mate at a time, not implying for a lifetime anymore (which the archaric/original deffination did include).


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

In short... I've kept several Dempsey pairs together long term without problem/concern...

^^ Good information above DwarfPike

I've also broken quite a few Dempsey pairs and "forced" them to accept a new mate. Sometimes it goes smooth as silk and sometimes ruff as sand paper...

I think there are a ton of dymanics that does into making or keepign a healthy pair, but I do not think it is at all true to suggest that a pair shuoldn't be kept together permanently or long term...


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## lmhollist (Aug 7, 2009)

This has really been an eye opener for me. Thank you for all the wonderful responses!

I guess now it comes down to whether or not I really want to bother with breeding my Jacks. Decisions, decisions...


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## lmhollist (Aug 7, 2009)

Sorry! I double posted! :?


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## pat3612 (Apr 30, 2008)

I found this on the internet and it worked for me. Put a pair together then put a mirror against one side of the tank gets the male going and he will bond with the female. I left the mirror there for a couple of days the male was always trying to lip lock with his reflection.


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