# Filter Advice ASAP Please Help!!!



## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

I currently have a 37g tank with an Aqueon filter on it for up to 50 gallons, is this sufficient? I was told that I "needed" something like the Marineland Emperor 280 Filter System to even sustain my tank! Is this true or was I just being fed the ole LFS **** to spend more money? I was inquiring more about this b/c the filters that were recommended to me were 60-120 dollars and I didn't want to buy something that I didn't need. Also my concerns are that after I do my weekly water changes all is well for about two three days then it becomes cloudy again but the water conditions are still sufficient. Could I need to do a filter change on my Aqueon, and do you think that this may be the problem if the filter is in fact sufficient? Its been about three weeks since the last time I changed the filter. Please all suggestions my stock is in my signature! Thanks in advance....


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Anyone know anything about filters???


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## Evan805 (Apr 19, 2010)

You might wanna add a second filter at some point, but I wouldn't be in a huge rush to upgrade. Keep an eye on your amonnia, nitrite and nitrate levels. As long as you have enough good bacteria to sustain your bioload then you're good. Keep up on your weekly water changes and you shouldn't have any problems.

The cloudiness could just be a harmless bactieria bloom.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Thanks for the input and if weren't everytime I would think that it was a bloom def if it is its bac b/c its like a whitish color not green so its not an algae bloom. And to just clarify I wasn't going to add the Marineland Emperor 280 Filter System I was essentially replace the Aqueon with the Marineland. Do you think that for the mean time I should just change out the filter in the Aqueon its been about three weeks and has quite alot of brown build up on it? I thought that the brown was the bacteria that was essential to the tank but should I change it b/c I just don't like the water to be cloudy 5 days out of the week with 2 clear days. and of course im concerned with the health of my fish. Nit levels are always fine as are the ammonia just this **** cloudy water haha


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## 702Cichlid (Feb 28, 2010)

My chief issue with the aqueon filters is they kind of limit what you can do with them as far as customizing filtration. They come with a filter pack that you're supposed to change every month and they have a built in 'bio holster' for your denitrifying bacteria colony but it doesn't give very much flexibility especially to cover a relatively heavy fish load. The aqueon should move enough water (~350 gallons) but you may want to consider getting a second small filter specifically for bio or water polishing. You can get an aquaclear 50 for about 40 bucks and it will let you add pretty much whatever media you want...you could even omit chemical since that is going to be handled by the Aqueon and add some extra bio or polishing elements. I find i like the insurance of having a second filter. Remember this is all personal preference, several people may tell you that you don't need anything else, however, keeping one filter doing all the work for a tank stocked with a high number of messy mbuna means you're going to have to clean and service your filter more often than if you were running a second filter.

You also mention this comes after a water change; you are of course using a dechlorinating product when you change water, right? Also you state that your water parameters are sufficient, but what are you reading as far as pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? Have you tested your tap water prior to adding it?


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

My PH is 7.8 to 8 constantly ammonia and nitrite, nitrate levels are minimal. So again what will the aquaclear 50 provide as far as filtration?


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## 702Cichlid (Feb 28, 2010)

The Aquaclear line lets you utilize whatever media you like...they are flexible, reliable, and highly customizable. They have sponges for coarse filtration, but room to add some biomedia (biomax etc) in a fine mesh bag and some poly batting for water polishing...options the aqueon just doesn't give you. They are just more customizable. Remeber when you change your aqueon filter cartridge to take the bio holster off and only rinse it with tank/dechlorinated water...tap water can have chloramine or chlorine which will kill the bacterial colony living on it.

You mention your ammonia and nitrite levels are 'minimal' but a cycled tank shouldn't have any readings for those. You might be having minicycles if you've already fully cycled your tank which can come from adding new fish, overfeeding, or damaging/disturbing your bacterial colony.. Just make sure when you are doing your weekly water changes you're using a water conditioner that will remove chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia/ammonium (e.g. Seachem Prime).

From what you describe i'm leaning towards a bacterial bloom as well...although if your tank is well established you shouldn't be having one every week...at least in my personal experience.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

*ammonia and nitrite, nitrate levels are minimal*

Your tank is not fully cycled yet.
Or, during your service you are disrupting your bacteria colony.
That would explain your Ã¢â‚¬Å"milkyÃ¢â‚¬Â


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

yeah and this is what is concerning me is that it is every week I get this cloudy water after about two or three day so of the clear conditions. I let my tank cycle for about three weeks to four weeks before adding fish could it be that this wasn't long enough and I'm now experiencing mini cycles like you mentioned? And also when you were discussing the bio holster you said that I should be rinsing this off as well as the new filter? What does this do? I had the understanding that I was to leave that alone b/c it held the bacertia colony esstential to the tank. Back to the mini cycles I have done some research on this "mini cycle" since your last post and it says that this can cause spikes in ammoina and ammonium that can kill the fish so if in fact I am experiencing mini cycles should I be doing a water change every 3 days or so? Sorry for all the ?s I'm just concerned


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

This is some of the other advice I have gotten about my filter what do you think...

If you were told to buy and replace your filter once a month... or every other week, then that is what may be causing you so many problems. You are putting your tank into a new mini-cycle everytime you "clean" the filters or change them out for a new one. NEVER clean the filters in the normal sense of the word "clean". If you ran the filter under tap water, the chlorine in the water killed your GOOD nitrifying bacteria in the filter and you will have to "cycle" your filter media again. This will probably put your tank into a new mini-cycle which means testing for ammonia and nitrites and doing PWC's to keep them at safe levels.

All you should do is once a week or every other week, when you do your 25% PWC (partial water change), take some of the tank water in a bucket and then you can take your filter cartridge or media out of the holder and swoosh it around in the tank water to remove the big stuff off of it. Then put it back in the holder and back in your filter system. This keeps the GOOD bacteria alive on the filter so you do not cause your tank to "cycle" again.
I know the filter people tell you to replace it once a month but they are just trying to sell filters. That is one of the leading cause of problems... messing with the filters because the "instructions" say to do it.

If you have a HOB (Hang On Back) filter system, you should really only clean it if the flow rate slows down or it's backing up back into the tank via the overflow outlet. I just do the swoosh method once a week with my 25% PWC and never have the problem. Don't worry.. most of us learned the hard way in the beginning.

Another thing if you have an HOB... is after you "swoosh" the filter cartridge and have it ready to put back in the holder, dump the water out of the HOB reservoir as it will have some "big stuff" in there as well. Then put your filter back in the HOB, dip a few cups of water out of your tank to fill the HOB reservoir and then plug it back in.

One last tip... if your "biobag" filters or filter cartridges have charcoal in them, you can dump the charcoal out after a few weeks since it has lost its effectiveness by then. This will also improve the flow rate through the "empty" biobag. The "floss" or sponge material in the biobag/cartridge should last over a year but in the event you do decide you want to change your biobag/cartridge, put the new one in the reservoir for 2 weeks so it builds up a good bacteria colony. Then on your next PWC, you can trash the old one, swoosh the new one and then put in in the holder. It's not really necessary to change them very often. Not until they look like they are about to fall apart. I have the same filter cartridges on my HOB's and they are all over a year old.

Most experience freshwater fish keepers aren't even keeping charcoal/carbon in their filters anymore. It's just another thing that the filter people are trying to sell you to keep revenue pouring in.. pardon the pun. I haven't had any charcoal/carbon in any of my four filter systems on two tanks for over a year and all of my fish are fine. I do keep some around in case of an emergency or if I need to filter some medicine out of one of my tanks but other than that, it sits in the closet.

If your filter cartridges have the activated carbon sealed up inside of a plastic housing, it might take some minor "surgery" to open the plastic housing up so you can dump out the carbon. I have done this to several different manufacturers cartridges so I think it's possible with any of them. This way, you still have the plastic frame and floss/sponge material that can be re-used many, many times using the swooshing method above. It's better for your fish and your wallet.

If you have more than one filter system on your tank, then you could do alternating filter cleaning or changing and more thoroughly cleaning the filters since the other one will still be fully cycled.


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## 702Cichlid (Feb 28, 2010)

Letting your tank 'sit running' doesn't actually prepare it for fish. You would have had to do a fishless cycle where you add ammonia to the tank to get your colonies of beneficial bacteria. If you didn't do that then essentially you're running a cycle with your africans as your 'sacrificial fish'. Any ammonia is harmful to fish. If you're now running a fished cycle you want to keep an eye out for ammonia poisoning...the fish will look like their gasping, will be lethargic, and will often have bright red and swollen looking gills.

I would get yourself a liquid test kit and test what your levels of Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are actually at (remember nitrite is just as big a killer as ammonia). I would then do water changes to try to keep that ammonia as low as possible. You can also treat your whole tank with something like Seachem Prime which will help eliminate free ammonia and nitrite...but will also slow down your cycle completion as it will remove the ingredients that beneficial bacteria need. A fully cycled tank will only show nitrates at water change time as Mr. Sousay outlined earlier, so if you're seeing numbers there then you probably have a cycling problem.

As for rinsing the bio holster off you just want to make sure no big debris or detritus is sticking to it...dipping it or rinsing it with decholorinated water well help make sure your good bacteria have room to grow (heterotrophic bacteria are what break down large organic matter, and they will take over dirty biomedia).


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## 702Cichlid (Feb 28, 2010)

1st of all activated carbon isn't useless, it just isn't required all the time. It's a good thing to have around to help remove meds or if you're having a heterotrophic bacterial bloom to help remove some dissolved solids from your water...but you really don't need it running all the time...it's more a 'as needed' thing.

Secondly, you never EVER want to wash or clean part of your filter media in tap water. Always used old tank water, or even tap water treated with a dechlorinator. However, you hadn't mentioned cleaning your filter during your weekly water change...the guy's described 'swoosh' method was exactly what i did for weekly maintenance on my HOB then once a month i'd clean it a bit more thoroughly...of course i was running two filters which allow you to be a bit more aggressive in your cleaning.

Aqueon filters are set up so there's not a lot of customization you can do with them (though you can surgery open the filter cartridges to remove old charcoal. You can do exactly as your other poster mentioned, just remember that most times not following proper maintenance schedules will void your filter warranty.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

Yeah i think that it was mentioned there that the carbon is only good for removing meds but anyways yes my filter was completely covered in think brown slime and the water flow was minimal like all the water was just going over my overflow and right back into the tank. Could this be causing the cloudiness? I did the swooshing with another 25% water change and "swooshed" the filter in the water that was removed from the tank so it was clean of Chlor. etc. Also what is the ways that i can tell if my tank is cycled? Is the brown slime in the filter my bac colony? I know someone mentioned in the thread that if it is cycled I would never see any ammonia excpet right after PWC is this correct?


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## 702Cichlid (Feb 28, 2010)

AfricanCichlidSweetPea said:


> Yeah i think that it was mentioned there that the carbon is only good for removing meds but anyways yes my filter was completely covered in think brown slime and the water flow was minimal like all the water was just going over my overflow and right back into the tank. Could this be causing the cloudiness? I did the swooshing with another 25% water change and "swooshed" the filter in the water that was removed from the tank so it was clean of Chlor. etc. Also what is the ways that i can tell if my tank is cycled? Is the brown slime in the filter my bac colony? I know someone mentioned in the thread that if it is cycled I would never see any ammonia excpet right after PWC is this correct?


That brown slime is just a collection of organic detritus, and usually it's the home of heterotrophic bacteria (the ones that break down organic solids into ammonia). There's not really a visual inspection that will tell you that your tank is cycled. You have use water test kits in order to know for sure. In most instances you shouldn't see any ammonia even after a PWC with a fully cycled tank.

Did you cycle the tank before you added fish? Using either ammonia, a piece of dead shrimp or fish, or using sacrificial fish like mollies or tetras? Also, what water conditioner are you using to dechlorinate your tap water? And finally, what are you using to test your water parameters?


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

No unfortunatily we only used a bac supplement that was recommended at our LPS and nothing else. Top Fin bacteria supplement, and for the water conditioner we are using top fin water conditioner that has added slime coat to reduce stress and enhance health. We are using test strips that test like 7 different different chemicals. Not sure of the brand


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## 702Cichlid (Feb 28, 2010)

In my experience the jury is out on those bacterial supplements. Some people swear by them, some people swear at them if you catch my drift. Did you add the bacteria supplement a month before the fish or right when you added them? Keep in mind even if you did everything that the bottle said to do, there is no guarantee that it would work.

Local fish stores love to push those bacterial supplements because they tell you that you can add fish immediately after using them, which means you're less likely to walk out the door without purchasing fish.

The topfin water conditioner should be fine, although i don't think it will remove free nitrite and ammonia like Seachem Prime will.

Test strips you will find, especially if you're going to be adding more tanks aren't a very good solution. They're cheap, but far less accurate than even the API liquid tests. I'd highly recommend picking up the API Master Freshwater kit which will give you high range pH, Nitrite, Nitrate, and ammonia liquid tests which are much more accurate than the stick tests. You can probably pick one up at walmart for about 25 bucks and I've found it's well worth the slightly smaller initial investment over test strips.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

We add the bac sup then then fish a couple weeks later which was a lot longer then the lps suggested they said add the bac sup then fish like an hour later I just didn't think this was right so we waited a lil over two weeks I will def pick up the liquid master tester tom.I feel as though I will be soon swear the bac supp ill respond tom after I correctly test the water thanks for all ur help


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## 702Cichlid (Feb 28, 2010)

Well, honestly adding it a few weeks before actually guaranteed it wouldn't work. Think along these lines: the beneficial bacteria in the supplement need ammonia to live (it's their food source), you put them in a ammonia free environment and they essentially starved to death. I made the exact same mistake in my very first 10 gallon tank 20 years ago.

If it is any consolation though, even had you done everything right those bacterial supplements are still a 50/50 shot from my own personal experience and research...now i just do fishless cycles as i know for sure the tank is cycled.

I would for sure cut back on your feeding a TON...maybe go every other day or every three days at most (don't worry, the fish can handle it no problem though with your aggressive species list you may have some issues) and leave the light off as much as possible (more for aggression and activity control than for anything helping with your cycle). Check your ammonia and Nitrites daily and change some water every day, at least 10%. Here's a great article on a sacrificial fish cycle how it works, how long it could take and what to do and expect.

I would also go to a LFS and see if you can buy an in-use filter sponge or get a squeeze of a filter sponge from an established tank in a bag to take home. This will give you more of the beneficial bacteria and help speed up the process. Just add the sponge or sponge squeeze to your tank...you could also try and get another dose of a bacterial supplement...you may have better luck with established ammonia levels this time. Good luck to you!

http://www.cichlidparadise.com/info/art ... cling.html


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## cheesoid (May 31, 2009)

I agree with (some of) the posts above. I think that your tank is overstocked and therefore probably overfed. It's too late to consider cycling with that many fish in the tank. Stop feeding every day, fish can live for months without food (not ideal but better than death by ammonia/nitrites). Spend some money on a decent filter (a small external can would be ideal). Forget the carbon etc etc, what you're looking for is high volume/high surface area filter media (noodles, sponges whatever). Spend money on good filtration now and you'll save on livestock in the future. Remember that 90% of keeping fish is keeping water. Good luck


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