# red devil



## justin3p0 (Apr 5, 2010)

ok i have a red devil in a i belive 35gal i had him in a 55gal but he exploded with growth and hes now like 6inches and very mean and beat on my other fish now i also have and oscar thats probly 9inches im wondering on peoples thoughts on mixing them comments?


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Oscar wont be able to handle a RD forever. Neither fish are going to be able to live in a 55g happily for very long even by themselves. You have two potentially 12" or larger fish.


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## jagz (Nov 1, 2009)

I would not keep them together. The RD will eventually kill him.


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## clgkag (Mar 22, 2008)

Big enough tank and anything can work. If your RD is already that aggressive you may be out of luck. The aggression may have been caused by beingin too small a tank space and it felt like it needed to claim the whole tank. A 125 or larger could work to house both, but it is all luck of the draw. It also depends how aggressive your oscar is. I had to get rid of an O that regularly beat on a 12" RD and a 9" Jag. Each fish is different.


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## Bkeen (Mar 13, 2009)

The RD is going to need more tank space- as will the O. Bare minimum spaces would be a 55 for the O (bare, no decor) and probably a 75 for the RD. When it comes to space for fish, it's always better to be safe rather than sorry. Good luck!


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## justin3p0 (Apr 5, 2010)

well the the oscar is only 9 inches and is 3 years old i bought from a pet store display that was 175gal and he said the oscar most likely will not grow any more so ill try them out if all else fails i can buy my friends 75gal for the devil


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## zoyvig (Oct 27, 2006)

Good idea. Try turning the temperature down!

I have kept dozens of RD/Midas in 40 long or 55 gallon tanks!


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## justin3p0 (Apr 5, 2010)

yea everyone says a 55 is too small but my friend has had his in a 40gal for like 2 years now alone and his RD is so cool its what made me buy mine id love to keep the red devil and the oscar together they are both mean but the RD has his nice cave to keep and the oscar cant fit in so i believe its going to work i turned the water temp to 72


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## homerl (Jan 6, 2009)

Isn't 72degrees a bit low for ca cichlids.I was always told 78-80 was about the norm.It's no wonder the red devil and oscar get along as they must be freezing IMO.


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

Seriously?!? RD's and O's together in a 55, at 72 degrees no less? **** you can keep any fish you want together with no limits to compatibility in your deep freeze stacked up on top of one another but I guess I prefer my fish a little more active than that. I let a tank get that low once when a heater went out on me and the fish are sluggish at best. If anyone wonders if there is a problem with 72 degrees tank temp let me ask them this question would most cichlids spawn under this condition? And if they wouldn't spawn are they really under ideal conditions.

I love this forum! Where else on one site can you find both people with so much knowledge and years of experience with cichlids _and_ people so not interested in taking their advice and just doing what ever the **** they want to all in one place?!? I am not saying everyone should listen to the "experts" on this site like it is the bible of fish keeping but why else spend the time to write on these forums other than to get the knowledge from these people with all the experience? I just laugh at how many people on here lately just don't care to listen and think cause their fish are alive that they are doing something right.

But I guess this all comes down to an ever lasting debate on here and many forums of what are you keeping fish for? To set up the best possible environments for our fish to keep them at their healthiest and best overall well being, while also ensuring the longevity of the hobby or to just have something to look at? At the end of the day it is your fish and your tank and you do what you want with it all. There is nobody going to take them away from you and charge you with cruelty to animals (like with dogs and cats that are not properly taken care for).

OK I'm done with my rant.


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## jagz (Nov 1, 2009)

Cmon guys...If you have to drop the temps in your aquarium to make the fish compatible. Then you need to ask yourself: what are you doing? Why not raise the temp so hight they are all gasping for air. Im sure they would get along at that point as well. When stocking your aquariums try to think about whats best for the fish you intend to keep...


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## justin3p0 (Apr 5, 2010)

haha well they are doing fine so all u clowns can zip it


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Give it time before you get all uppity.

I had a fish jump out of the tank and lie on the floor for about 5 mins. before and it lived. Does that mean my tank is a wast of money? Should I just let the fish roam freely about my living room? I suspect in that case as well as yours, time would tell a different story.


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## justin3p0 (Apr 5, 2010)

yea well i dont care what u guys have to say they are doing fine i raised the water temp back up and fed them and they both ate just fine in fact i like them so much im buying a on sale 75 gall here soon for them so say as u wish


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

That will give you a better chance.


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## zoyvig (Oct 27, 2006)

justin3p0 -

where did you end at on your temperature? are you putting the RD in the 75 alone?

I am NOT an EXPERT!!! I've kept aquariums for 60 years - cichlids for 50 years - Red Devils (A.labiatus) for 45 years - and Midas (A.citrenellum) for 35 years. 72 degrees is not in the deep freeze (74/76 is better)

NO BODY cares for their fish any better than I do. I am 71+ with cancer. Chances are my fish will out live me. I am giving my pets to my grandchildren and keeping only a 90 with my last female Red Devil and about a dozen of her last spawn. I know, you all think that's too many fish for that aquarium. Too bad, this is for me!!


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi *zoyvig*,

Amazing. Your grandchildren will (and obviously do now) love you, I am sure you are creating little future Cichlid addicts out of them. Great work.

I agree 74/76 is pretty good. However i keep my tanks at 80.

Thanks,
Matt


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## justin3p0 (Apr 5, 2010)

i ended the temp at 78 and ya iv had cichlids for like 6 years now and i never keep the water temp at 80 all day everyday ya i have befor but just because they live in the wild at 80 dont mean they cant live at 74-79 as well my fish are all happy eat regularly and i have 2 oscars in a african tank and i havent a problem in the tank its been up and going for a while now too so if people dont give me the info im looking to hear and just dog on my setup i usually dont care


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

I own a pair of breeding Red Devils. They aren't too aggressive in my big tank. When I was younger I had a 2-3 in female Red Devil that kept two 6-7 inch Oscars in the corner. She would beat them repeatedly. I finally had to trade in the Oscars. Oscars are large fairly peaceful fish and will not be able to survive in a tank with a Red Devil.[/i]


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## justin3p0 (Apr 5, 2010)

well believe it or not my oscar and red devil are almost what seems to be friends they swim hand and hand(fin and fin) they move everywhere together the only probly is i have to change the water alot to make sure they are happy and i have two 75gal filters in the long run i think im giving the red devil away and buying a bigger tank for my oscar


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

I don't think anybody will doubt that this can work in the short term. I am glad to see that it is. We just want you to know that in the long term (I'm talking years) this does not have a high probability of working out. It is nice to see that you have given thought into the long term plans for these fish. Good luck with them, enjoy them and I think your Oscar will be very happy once you do upgrade to a larger tank for it.


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## Electrophyste (Aug 5, 2009)

i dont agree with what most say can and wont work,
i have a 5 foot 110 gallon 
and I had a 
14 inch pike, 
14 inch clarius catfish, 
10 inch jack dempsey,
8 inch red devil, 
5 inch oscar, 
a 4 inch green terror
a 3 inch firemouth 
2, 3 inch sevrums all living together
2 sinagalus bichirs
for about 7 months and had no isues with any of them with aggression

the Pike, a 16 inch common pleco and clarius are currently at a friends house in a 4 foot 75 gallon, still no aggression issues.


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

*Electrophyste*

That is great that you found that stock list to work for a few months but that is not the issue. Most people that post questions about stock lists on this site don't know much about the fish they are asking about and may be in experienced with cichlids in general. Just telling them that most everything _could_ work is not a good pit of advice. You want to give these people good advice on what will have higher probabilities of working for long term (again I can't stress enough that long term with cichlids mean years). While it is interesting to here that you had success with the stock list you listed above for a number of months, I hate to be the one pointing out that most of those fish were not even close to full grown and that the likelihood of someone repeating that same stock list for the period of a few years would not have a high success rate. This is why, in my opinion, people posting about these tanks on this site and ones like it is not very helpful to the average person looking for information about keeping similar fish, possibly for the first time.


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## Electrophyste (Aug 5, 2009)

I forgot to say its all in the fishes personalities.

i do agree that some fish that are aggressive shouldn't go in with anything but im just saying as well that *** heard alot of people having some pretty strange mixtures and they do work out long term.+


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## justin3p0 (Apr 5, 2010)

i agree elecrto my friend has a 75 with:

2 JD
3 cons
1 pacu
2 plecos(one is like 20in)
5 africans(kenyi)
4 common gold fish (i think they are dumb)

and he has never lost a fish and hes had the setup for a long time since befor i knew him

and its not like im going to let my fish brawl till death if a problem comes along im looking at a 125 gal for my oscars and maybe then i can get a nice JD myself to join

and if my red devil bothers my big oscar ill find a home for the RD (but i swear they swim like buddies side by side all day)

and electro id love to see pics of that tank it sounds really neat =)


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## aussy612 (Jan 31, 2009)

I agree with cage fully. 
Just because your friend has a hugely overstocked tank DOES NOT mean that it is a good idea, or is suitable for you to do. Thats simply poor fishkeeping. I think its pretty safe to say that his fish will not be in their prime, and they will not grow to full potential. A 75 gallon is simply not big enough, even for ONE pacu. 
Also, of course there are cases that fish survive in these conditions, but they will not thrive. If you are truly interested in properly keeping and supporting these fish you will keep them separately, at least in my opinion. They will appreciate it and grow like you've never imagined. I'm telling you right now, the probability of this working in the long term is low. RD are VERY agressive, both males and females. I can say quite confidently that one of these fish will die.

To reiterate cage's first points, this is a forum. You have some very experienced people giving you sound advice.It is up to you whether you take their advice or not. This is not the place to be looking for "the info that you want to hear". There will be differences of opinion. It's simply the nature of the hobby. Ultimately it is your decision as to what to do in your tanks, but all I ask you is to have a bit of foresight. Theres a difference between being an average fishkeeper (throwing anything into a tank too small and seeing how it goes) and being a responsible fish keeper. Success can be controlled by you, and how you choose to care for your fish.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

justin3p0 said:


> i agree elecrto my friend has a 75 with:
> 
> 2 JD
> 3 cons
> ...


This is a crazy stock list.
1-PH levels are so different from africans & american cichlids, yes they can tolerate it, but it's not the kind of life they'd prefer.
2-Goldfish are a cold water fish, Cichlid like warm tropical temps.
3-Pacu should never be sold to us as pets they get far too large for any home aquariums.

Yes it's works, but are the fish living in conditions they would in the wild(or close to it)?
I'm not against "overstocking/overcrowding" but I like to recreate how my fish live in their natural habitat.


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## rwolff (Mar 13, 2007)

I would keep the Red Devil instead of the Oscar, Just because the RD is really playful, mine does flips after flips when I'm not looking, and reacts surprised when it realizes i saw it..then proceeds to hide embarrassingly behind a big rock for a moment.
And I had my RD with some huge Tilapia and a Red Tail Shark, not huge just almost twice the size when the RD was about 4 inches. In a 55G. They dance, swim side by side... one day I found one tilapia without scales and another without eyes......

..Moral of the story... it wont work long term. But its nice while it lasts.

Some of these large cichlids are not community fish. But we all want that, a slice of a waterworld with all fish possibilities. Not always the case with large cichlids.


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## Blademan (Sep 20, 2008)

Red devils, at least as adults, have far more personality, and are muuuuch more active than oscars. No comparison as a wet pet IMO.


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Yeah my RD always notices me when I'm around the tank.
I don't think it like me much because it flares & tries to attack me all the time.
:lol:

O's are more puppy like, they like to beg for food & will try to woo you into looking @ them.


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## snakedoc (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a thought about mimicking the wild...in my opinion there really is no way to do this in the home aquarium. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for providing a setup for happy healthy fish. Reality is that you can't replicate the water parameters (physical parameters and routine fluctuations), nor would you have the food types or predators either (birds, fish, mammals etc). So I don't see much of a need for this argument.
Back to the original question, I would agree that the RD and the oscar would outgrow the 55 but that seems to be addressed by getting the larger aquarium. Both cool fish though. Good luck with them.
Rich


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Not so much "mimicking" but providing them with the most natural setting.
ie:
Rocks,wood,roots, maybe even fish & some plants from the same biotope, etc.

Biotope Aquariums/fishtanks are quite common.


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