# Labeo Trewavasae strain..



## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Bought four of these from the LFS.

They were fairly large so I bought the one of the darker w/ red top assuming it was a he & three of the OB with red top thinking they were female.

Well.. I get them in the tank & now not so sure. I think they may be two diferent strains because one of the OB's has a much more defined & prominent red dorsal & "it" carries himself as a male.

Can OB's morph into solid blue bodied w/ red top like you typically see?

The one dark colored w/ reddish top..



















Two of the three OB's - presumed male on the left.










By "it"self from the front.










Thanks..


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

It is possible for an OB to be male.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Ok.. Thanks.

Total speculation on my part. There were two large groups in that same tank 8-10 that were dark & 8-10 that were OB..

I suppose these are two totally seperate strains. I need more of one or the other to have a 1:3-4 ratio.

May need to take the darker one back & get 3 more of the OB. Assuming of course they are different strains. Would really help if the LFS knew what they purchased - if even purchased. For all that I (we) know - they could have been trades for store credit.

This store's focus is reef systems & they do that very well. Better profits in salt vs freshwater these days...

Thanks


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## rkeiger (May 28, 2004)

What store did you get them from in Charleston?


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Wasn't Charleston. Tideland only has mixed mbuna that appear to be heavily crossed..

They would also be included in the "great at reef" LFS as well.

These were from Fishy Business in Columbia..

I am in Summerville also..


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

No, it is NORMAL for them to sell the Red Top Trewavasae with both color forms... most of the grey-blue ones will be male... most of the orange blotched forms will be females... the same species all from the same batch of fry. 
It is possible to have an orange blotched be male. It is also possible for the grey to blue ones to be female I think but they have been bred using OB females to get OB females.

Get a couple more OB females to make sure you have a few females. See how the possible males color up. They are nice fish.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks noki...

Will grab some more of the OB. I assume those with the least color on their dorsal are most likely female. These fish are 2" +.

I just assumed that the darker one's had to be male because I read that OB males are very rare. On this site actually. Maybe I am lucky. (that's a first!) 

There is no doubt to me that the OB I have displays and carries himself like a male. He is the only one that does out of the 4. The darker one acts just like the other 2 (presumed) females...


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

The OB's are rare, in the wild... Not so much once bred in captivity.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks Fogelhund...

As I thought - no way I was lucky.. :thumb:


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Picked up three more of the OB's that appear to be female.. Assuming the OB female will not develop a prominent red dorsal. The fish I picked up do not look like the guy(?) below...

I like 'em.

Gotta get those hybrid labs out of there... Sigh..


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## AC (Jul 26, 2010)

noki said:


> No, it is NORMAL for them to sell the Red Top Trewavasae with both color forms... most of the grey-blue ones will be male... most of the orange blotched forms will be females... the same species all from the same batch of fry.
> It is possible to have an orange blotched be male. It is also possible for the grey to blue ones to be female I think but they have been bred using OB females to get OB females.
> 
> Get a couple more OB females to make sure you have a few females. See how the possible males color up. They are nice fish.


That is interesting.

I have three males in separate tanks.

One what I believed was a female left in with one of the males.

So far no breeding action at all.

maybe I should switch her out into another tank...


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Of the 3 most recent that I bought, one is male the blue/gray is as well..

The O/B w/ red dorsal (that I had suspected) is indeed male. He is now defining his territory & whenever these other two fish come anywhere close - he freaks out. Starts flashing and shaking like crazy & chases them to the other end of the tank..

The good news is that I am now fairly certain that the other three OB's are female. He leaves them alone...

The red on his dorsal seems to get more vibrant by the day.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Will be interesting to see if you guys still get the wild type behaviour of the females trying to breed with only none OB males. The theory being that this is why OB became sex linked in the first place.
Dunno with TB they may be losing this preference but heard more than once you need to remove none OB males to get the females to breed with an OB male, to get the most OB males in the young.

All the best James


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## AC (Jul 26, 2010)

And here comes 24Tropheus to throw another monkey wrench into the works...

:lol:

So, the females are racist, eh?

These fish drive drive me nuts.

As to the females with male colors, will those colors be dull in comparison to a males even if they are the only one like them in a tank?


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Is far as I understand, this is what happens in nature. 
The normal standard color is the blue. The orange blotched (OB) is a natural mutant coloration, and both are present in nature, but the OBs are usually female. The females choose which males they want to breed with and they choose the normal blue males, since the OB males don't look right to the females. Males don't care what color the females are, they will breed with the bluish females and the orange blotched females, as long as they are willing. So the gene pool has both the blue and OB genes, but the OB genes only get passed on with females.

The OB survive in nature because they blend in with the rocks well. In nature the females choose the correct species of male, so they choose the blue males in nature, but in a closed fish tank they will breed with a male OB since they have less choices. Malawi males are never very picky, as most hobbyist learn. :lol:


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## AC (Jul 26, 2010)

So...

You're saying that malawi males are a lot like human males?

:lol:


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

noki said:


> Is far as I understand, this is what happens in nature.
> The normal standard color is the blue. The orange blotched (OB) is a natural mutant coloration, and both are present in nature, but the OBs are usually female. The females choose which males they want to breed with and they choose the normal blue males, since the OB males don't look right to the females. Males don't care what color the females are, they will breed with the bluish females and the orange blotched females, as long as they are willing. So the gene pool has both the blue and OB genes, but the OB genes only get passed on with females.
> 
> The OB survive in nature because they blend in with the rocks well. In nature the females choose the correct species of male, so they choose the blue males in nature, but in a closed fish tank they will breed with a male OB since they have less choices. Malawi males are never very picky, as most hobbyist learn. :lol:


Yep thats it. The ones where the sex gene and colour gene stayed together did best in nature (both OB females and blue males doing well while blue females and OB males do badly or breeding less well) and thus there was selection pressure for the colour gene and sex gene to become linked (ever closer together and inherited together) and for females OB or none OB to have greater numbers of successful young if they select for none OB males thus the behaviour becomes more and more fixed. In tanks this selection pressure is not there (or reversed by hobbiests liking OB males) so thats why I say interesting what behaviour you get in TB. In theory the further from wild the more the genes will become less sex linked and even female preference for none OB males may be lost.

Erm dunno much about colour selection in human females or males. Rather dangerous ground. :wink:

All the best James


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

AC..

We are only as picky as our available options... Just like the fish.. :thumb:


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