# I've just about had it with my tank! Ready to quit



## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm ready to give up on my 125 cichlid tank. I'm so sick of this brown spore like algae growing on everything. The water never looks clean. I do the water changes. I upgraded to a Fluval Fx5, I reduced the amount of light in the tank. It never looks crystal clear like all the tanks I've seen online. I had a DIY background I ended up tossing several months ago because it just got covered in nasty brown and black algae. I'm thinking of selling all my cichlids and changing it to planted tank, since I've had better luck this those, and the planted tank I have always looks clean and can go a month without a water change and still look amazing. So frustrated! :-? :x


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

From what I've read, more light encourages green algae and plants compete with the brown for nutrients - maybe you should try adding plants (ones that the cichlids won't eat - planted defensively) and adding more light but keep your fish too? The other thing to do is to check that your decorations, water and substrate isn't high in silicates which encourages brown algae.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Don't give up...water clarity is not that hard to achieve. The brown algae can be overcome (mostly) too.

For water clarity, basically you just need some polishing. I have an HOB on all my tanks that I use for this. I put filter floss into bags and then into the HOB (or if the HOB has one of those plastic cases I load that with the filter floss). Most of my floss can run 3 weeks then gets changed. Some people say you should change it more often but mine doesn't seem to get that dirty that quickly. If you don't have an HOB I saw on your tanks info that you previously had an eheim 2229 and a 2217. You could use your 2217 as a polisher by loading it up with filter floss. And then you would just need to check on how long it stays viable for your changeout schedule.

Brown algea.... even tanks that have been established for a while can have it. My plecos are pretty good at eating it for the most part, at least from the glass and such. Some people say snails work too, I don't have any so can't comment further on that. The plecos sometimes don't eat the algae from my rocks which makes me have to pull them every so often and just give em a quick scrub and rinse as it comes off really easy. It is complex as far as what makes and keeps this algae going...water parameters, lighting, feeding, waste/organics. Just do your best. I've also seen people mention UV sterilizers and phosphate removers...again, no experience. I just clean my rocks when it bothers me enough. The forum has a good algae article and here is another regarding types of algae and another regarding 10 ways to beat algae...

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/algae.htm
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4085

In the end, making your tank a more heavily planted tank is probably a good tactic as its one of the key ways to cut down on the bad algae's. The problems with heavily planted and cichlids is the cichlids are diggers and grazers so you will just have to find creative ways to keep your plants attached and growing (instead of being eaten). You have a great size tank and obviously have put some time into the hobby...just dont' give up. Try something new with the understanding that not everything will work but at some point in time you will find something that works for YOU! good luck.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

I have the 2217 still running as a back up with more media in it. I did buy a plego (goldspot), snales, and I did try adding plants. I added Anubias, Amazon Sword, and Vallisneria. All are not doing aweful since they are covered with that thick brown/black algea. It's not the kid that come off easy. I have to use a wire brush to get it off the rocks, and that does not get much off at all. The plants are rooted in mesh bags filled with root tabs and flourite. I've added phosphate remover pads to the filter, that did nothing as well. Maybe I'll add a hob. When I had a monster power head, I would wrap the intake with filterfloss, but that had to be changed every 3-4 days and it was nasty! I'm finishing up a spray bar today as well.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

How about an Upflow Algae Scrubber?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Add a few Bristlenose pleco's. What type of lighting and K rating, how many hours are they on, how many fish and what size, how often do you feed, what are the nitrates and phosphates out of the tap, exactly what filtration are you using and what media is in them? I will try and help you get crystal clear water but need some answers to those questions first.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

The BN plecos I have tried adding in the past always become lunch, for some reason, for the most part they leave the gold spot pleco alone. 
There is also a yoyo loach in there, which I'm shocked has not been eaten! 
I have 4 39w T5 HO Bulbs 6700K. I have them on for 9 hours on a timer from 12pm to 9pm. Just resized this so moved it to go off at 8. 
They are fed NLS once a day, and I skip Sundays. 
Nitrates come out of the tap at 40ppm! I'll have to find my phophastes test kit and check that one.
I have a Fluval FX5 and Eheim 2236. Both have Eheim Substrat Pro Bio Filter Media, looks like coco puffs. The Fluval has 2 layers of a green filter pad which is supposed to help with phosphates. The Eheim also has filter floss in it which I change whenever I clean that out. Sorry I said I had the 2217. I forgot that I had switched them on my planted. So my planted has the 2217 and the cichlid tank has the 2236.
Okay, not really even sure how many fish I have at the moment. I've had them anywhere from 6months to over a year. I can get a pic to give an idea.


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## du3ce (Sep 11, 2012)

That is a lot of light i would cut it down to 4 and see how it does


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

I'd say that the high nitrate in the tap water is at least half the problem - is that even legal to provide tap water at 40ppm nitrate?


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

The gray thing you see if the media basked for the eheim. The clips broke so waiting for those to come in the mail in a few days.

Looks like I have a lot of fish! I know 2 are hiding in the rocks. I added 6 or so this spring, there was a lot of fighting with less fish. Right now I have the perfect balance and no one is getting picked on. 1 fish might be female so could move her out. I also have 4 moorii, dont really need that many! I had bought 5 hopping for a male, and 4 ended up male.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

MandyBlue said:


> The BN plecos I have tried adding in the past always become lunch, for some reason, for the most part they leave the gold spot pleco alone.
> There is also a yoyo loach in there, which I'm shocked has not been eaten!
> I have 4 39w T5 HO Bulbs 6700K. I have them on for 9 hours on a timer from 12pm to 9pm. Just resized this so moved it to go off at 8.
> They are fed NLS once a day, and I skip Sundays.
> ...


Well....it is likely the algae and cloudiness are two seperate problems but both may stem from the same cause. How large and often are you doing water changes? What about filter cleanings?

I would cut the light down to 8hrs. I would also do a large water change, 80% or so, then don't feed for a couple days or so and see if it starts to cloud without feeding.

Just to give you an idea I always have very clear water. I added 9 new fish recently in one of my tanks(75g with FX5 and Aquatop CF500UV which is A LOT of filtration) and the next day it started to cloud because of the added new bioload through more fish and feedings. I then did a water change, fed normally, waited a few days and did another and now it is totally clear even after I feed. I think it was a very small heterotrophic bloom but now it is gone.

You really need to reduce your nitrates out of the tap and one of the best ways is to use a RO/DI unit and add back in the essential elements to bring your kH/pH back up which is easy and takes nothing more than baking soda, epsom salt and sea salt all readily found at your local supermarket for cheap. You could also add a lot more plants or an algae scrubber.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Also...I would consider making a spray bar for your FX5 output to create more surface agitation and current in your tank. That will also help with diatoms and dead spots.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

How much does the ro/di run? I'm actually making a spray bar now. Just drilled the holes. Should be up by the weekend.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

MandyBlue said:


> How much does the ro/di run? I'm actually making a spray bar now. Just drilled the holes. Should be up by the weekend.


Awesome to hear. I make tons of them for myself and others. They make a big difference especially on a filter like the FX5. A good RO/DI unit is between $120- 210 or so. That is the route I would go if I were you. I haven't needed one in years since I stopped doing reef tanks but it was a savior. Do you have a place to store a large water container or a couple?


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

Ouches. Maybe I can find a used one. Any particular one better then the other. I don't really have a place to store water. Is this something no could hook up to the faucet or tank?


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

I'd call the water company - at least check their promises for water purity - I think 40ppm is higher than is legal in many places.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

MandyBlue said:


> Ouches. Maybe I can find a used one. Any particular one better then the other. I don't really have a place to store water. Is this something no could hook up to the faucet or tank?


Well....you need a place to store water to do water changes because it produces water slowly.


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

You would probably be ok with one of the bare bones RO systems. I used the Kent Marine one for years. I just got a large garbage can and used that to collect the water set next to the washing machine. Had a Y valve on the washer cold side for the RO. It would fill a 30 gallon can in about 24 hours.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

Yeah I don't think that would be much of an option. Don't really have the room for that. What about if I added a water softener to the house? We have been thinking about doing that for a while.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

MandyBlue said:


> Yeah I don't think that would be much of an option. Don't really have the room for that. What about if I added a water softener to the house? We have been thinking about doing that for a while.


I am not sure, you may need to check, but I think a whole home softener would remove your nitrates and phosphates. So I think that would be fine. You need to make sure you add back the essential elements removed to buffer the tank. You can use the rift lake buffer recipe in the library. You would want to do smaller water changes more often. Maybe 25% twice a week because you look like you have a substantial load.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

If I were to end up doing the water softener in the future, could I not just add crushed coral to the tank?


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

I don't think that water softeners will remove nitrates - usually they soften 'hard' water by pulling out calcium and adding salts.


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## mgreen44 (Dec 27, 2011)

I have a mbuna tank that is allways clear and I was getting cloudy looking water in my peacock hap tank and was told to put boyd chemi-pure into my canisters it took a week but now really clear.You can find it cheap online and it lasts 4 to 6 months. I do run a spray bar but was only running pads and bio rings no charcoal or chemicals. I wasw told it helps with the algae too. I run 2 canisters in my tanks but keep being told to also run a HOB must be somthing to it. Don't give up you have some really nice fish take it as a challenge you will win.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Yael said:


> I don't think that water softeners will remove nitrates - usually they soften 'hard' water by pulling out calcium and adding salts.


Yeah...I think you have to have a special resin or deionizer but I think you can buy that at the same time.

Mandy...I would ask the company selling you the softener about the removal of nitrates.


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## jonathantc08 (Nov 16, 2012)

If you used silicone to attach your DIY background inside the tank you could probably be feeding the diatoms. The diatoms prefer the silicate over nitrates where the green algae will usually be high nitrates.

you could always give up. after all if your doing something that makes you mad it's not worth doing. I personally find its the most interesting part of the hobby getting the chemistry just right. Check your system do your research and check your system over and over until you find the root of the problem. There is an answer out there for most everything.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Plant the tank to get rid of nitrates.

When people have a softener we usually tell them to get the water from the tap _before_ the softener so that will hurt, not help.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Here's a nice article (a little older but still looks good) on planted tanks and mbunas...I say, do what makes you and your fish happy and enjoy your hobby. And I'd like to have a tank like this one day (but it won't be soon as I'm just learning about plants and such...so much to learn and so little time)

http://www.aquabotanic.com/?p=829


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## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

13razorbackfan said:


> Add a few Bristlenose pleco's. What type of lighting and K rating, how many hours are they on, how many fish and what size, how often do you feed, what are the nitrates and phosphates out of the tap, exactly what filtration are you using and what media is in them? I will try and help you get crystal clear water but need some answers to those questions first.


do bristlenose pleco clean tank better than a common pleco? also can a common pleco be kept with bristlenose without aggression issues? i have 4 common pleco spread over 3 tanks


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

pfoster74 said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > Add a few Bristlenose pleco's. What type of lighting and K rating, how many hours are they on, how many fish and what size, how often do you feed, what are the nitrates and phosphates out of the tap, exactly what filtration are you using and what media is in them? I will try and help you get crystal clear water but need some answers to those questions first.
> ...


I haven't had a common pleco on years so I can't remember as far as eating more of the nuisance algae/diatoms. The BN will eat the diatoms especially if you are not feeding them specifically. The get along better with most cichlids and they don't get even close to as large. I usually recommend BN's simply because of size.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

cichlid-gal said:


> Here's a nice article (a little older but still looks good) on planted tanks and mbunas...I say, do what makes you and your fish happy and enjoy your hobby. And I'd like to have a tank like this one day (but it won't be soon as I'm just learning about plants and such...so much to learn and so little time)
> 
> http://www.aquabotanic.com/?p=829


This looks awesome!!! Going to check more into this as well. Would love to one day have a set up like this.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I've never seen another tank like that, but I did see that one years ago. Note that the tank in the pictures is high maintenance and high tech. I wonder how long the fishkeeper was able to keep it looking like that, LOL?


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## badspellar (Oct 14, 2009)

Contrary to everyone else, I believe you should follow your first instint. You sound interested in a planted tank, so why not do it. Although cichlids are terrific, perhaps you can revisit them later. There are lots of wonderful smaller fish that work well in planted tanks. Or simply go planted. Whatever you do, I hope you find a path which delights you.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> I've never seen another tank like that, but I did see that one years ago. Note that the tank in the pictures is high maintenance and high tech. I wonder how long the fishkeeper was able to keep it looking like that, LOL?


My only comment is that the plants are so beautiful and the tank is so full of them that you lose the cichlids in the mix. It's hard to see them in the complete picture. As for high maintenance, I have no doubt about that and his introduction and equipment lists speak to that. But I do believe that there can be a happy medium, some plants, some mbuna, repairs as necessary, happy fishkeeper...LOL


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

Really want to stay away from c02. Font know why, but it scares me. I have Excel, so going to try using that for a few weeks and see if that perks up my plants, if so, then add more plants and see if that helps with water clarity. Also as adding more filter floss to the little eheim and look out for good deal on a hob.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

MandyBlue said:


> Really want to stay away from c02. Font know why, but it scares me. I have Excel, so going to try using that for a few weeks and see if that perks up my plants, if so, then add more plants and see if that helps with water clarity. Also as adding more filter floss to the little eheim and look out for good deal on a hob.


I would add three cut to fit blue/white filter pads inside the FX5 baskets. The sponges that come on the outside of the baskets do very little in the way of medium/fine filtration. Add those pads and that should help. I know when I clean my FX5 the 6 sponges together are not as dirty as one blue/white filter pad inside the basket. There is no bypass through the inner part of the basket but the sponges on the outside allow quite a bit of bypass.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Also, as most fish look to be adult size, I would cut down feeding to once every other day if you have not already.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

Right now I'm doing 6 times a week, sometimes 5. Maybe I will change to 3-4. Just finished the spray bar and set it up. I'm still a bit surprised that the fluvial fx5 does not have "more" power. I might shorten the spray bar. Right now it's 5' long with 3/4" holes every 2 inches.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

I think those holes might be too big on your spraybar but I'm not the expert...where is razorback...????


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

cichlid-gal said:


> I think those holes might be too big on your spraybar but I'm not the expert...where is razorback...????


Yes...way too large.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

MandyBlue said:


> Right now I'm doing 6 times a week, sometimes 5. Maybe I will change to 3-4. Just finished the spray bar and set it up. I'm still a bit surprised that the fluvial fx5 does not have "more" power. I might shorten the spray bar. Right now it's 5' long with 3/4" holes every 2 inches.


You need to do a different hole configuration. I make tons of spray bars especially for the FX5 and have tested many different configurations. If I were doing a 60" spray bar I would make it 35 holes spaced roughly 1.7" apart and 1/8" in diameter. You currently have thirty 3/4" holes. The hole number is fine it is the diameter of the holes that is the problem.

The way I make the spray bar is the spray bar itself(the tube with the holes is seperate from the two end U-tube elbow units for hanging on the tank) rotates independently from the ends and is not glued. That way it can be swapped at any time with another spray bar without having to make a whole other unit. Hopefully you did it that way and if so then I would do as I mentioned about and make a 60" bar with 35 holes spaced 1.7" apart(roughly 1 and 3/4") and make the hole diameter 1/8". I would start with a really small bit to make the holes then round them out with the 1/8" bit.

You should notice quite a bit of difference in velocity of the water. Here is a video of my spray bar on my FX5. Notice the top of my tank. It looks like white water rapids and the flow was so strong I had to tilt it slightly upwards. My hole size on this particular spray bar are a bit bigger than 1/8"(13/64" I think) spaced 1" apart and a total of 38 holes. The flow was too strong with the 1/8" holes so I had to make the holes bigger. You have a bigger tank so the 1/8" holes are what you would want. Sorry...here is the video:






Here is a shot with the lights and top off the tank.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

I'll pick up another pvc pipe and try again. lol. So I added excel about 4 days ago, hoping to help with algae, but OMG my amazon sward has grown! Noticed today more then 12 brand new leafs that are 4-6 inches long. Going to keep using the excel to see how much I can get it to grow and then hope I can add more plants. Would love a planted cichlid tank. I only have 1.3 wpg.


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## jonathantc08 (Nov 16, 2012)

I just finally got my brown algae to recede. The way I did it was by cutting discs out of a 12x12 Poly-Bio Marine Poly Filter pad. Then I stacked about 6 discs into a reactor and installed the reactor on my tank. Over the last 18 hours about a 50% reduction of brown spots and I expect them to be completely gone in the next few days. Poly Filter works really good. I did not have a bad diatom issue but decided to use poly filter to remove some medication and losing the brown algae is just a plus!


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## 748johnd (Jun 30, 2007)

Amazon sword plants are basically root feeders. I use Excel plus plant tabs. If you want the sword plants to flourish I would use plant tabs in addition to Excel.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm doing that as well, but the dink barley grew and the leafs looks like garbage, was shocked at the change since adding excel


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