# Peacock Cichlids!



## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Hey everyone!

I am new to this site and new to Cichlids. I have kept, and still do keep, Tetras, Mollies, Guppies, and Swordtails. In the near future I am going to get a 20 gallon long.  I am going to have Peacock Cichlids in it. A couple of questions first! 

1. How many peacock can i have in there?
2. What is the best and quiet HOB filter for a 50 gallon? (The 50g filter will be for the 20g, Extra filtering is important!)
3. What is a good heater?
4.What plants will go good with the peacocks?
5. Since I have a higher GPH and gallon filter would I have room for some Tetras?
6. What is a good food for the Cichlids?


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

1. At most, a 1m2f trio of one species of peacock. Perhaps look into a 55 gallon, that's really the smallest you should go.

2. Whisper 60 or a Pengiun 350. If you went with a 55 instead, a canister filter would be a good addition to the HoB.

3. Anything in the ball park of 3-5w per gallon. They all do a decent job for the most part.

4. Anubias or Java Fern. Others can work but I've read on here these do well.

5. Probably not, and they could probably be eaten.

6. NLS or Omega 1.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I can't go with anything bigger than a 20g long! I really want a 40g but that's how life goes.  On this article http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articl...r's of peacock and maybe if I could 4 tetras.


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> I can't go with anything bigger than a 20g long! I really want a 40g but that's how life goes.  On this article http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articl...uoting" it. How did you do that magic trick?


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## natedgg (Apr 9, 2011)

What is going on here? I quoted your post as it was blank, then it posted a blank post for me. That is strange.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Yeah I don't know what's going on. All I see is blank for your first post and his/her response to me.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

This was my second post that was a blank

I can't go with anything bigger than a 20g long! I really want a 40g but that's how life goes.  On this article http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articl...r's of peacock and maybe if I could 4 tetras.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I can't go with anything bigger than a 20g long! I really want a 40g but that's how life goes.  On this article http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articl...ir's of peacock and maybe if I could 4 tetras


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

There most be a bug!


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> I can't go with anything bigger than a 20g long! I really want a 40g but that's how life goes.  On this article http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articl...peacock and maybe if I could 4 tetras[/quote]


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Help! Help! Mr/MRs. Mod! LOL!  
I am going to try to post the response again!


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

On this article http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_20g.php that it is possible to have Julidochromis regani - 1 pair, Neolamprologus leleupi - 1 pair, and 'Lamprologus' occelatus - 1 trio with one of these filters, Emperor 280, AquaClear 200, Penguin 170, or Eheim Liberty 150 or 200. I calculated the total inch per fish and it's about 22 inches. So I was thinking that if it's 22 inches per fish y can't i have 2 pair's of peacock and maybe if I could 4 tetras.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

The problem is the environment those fish live in compared to peacocks. Small tanganikian cichlids don't require a whole lot of room because they stay small and usually stay in smaller territories.

Peacocks just get bigger. You want to stock a tank with fish that can happily live their entire life in the tank you keep them in. Peacocks like to swim and if you confine them to a 30x12 tank they won't be as happy as they could with a 48x13 or larger.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

So, tell me if i misunderstood u, the only problem would be that a 20g long for 2m and 2f peacock cichlids is that they are to active for it?


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

The one inch per gallon rule does not apply to cichlids, and in reality it is a bad idea to use it for all types of fish. There are many factors involved in determining tank size for the group of fish you want to keep such as adult size, behavior, aggression level, feeding habits, as well as possible tankmates.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

shellies215 said:


> The one inch per gallon rule does not apply to cichlids, and in reality it is a bad idea to use it for all types of fish. There are many factors involved in determining tank size for the group of fish you want to keep such as adult size, behavior, aggression level, feeding habits, as well as possible tankmates.


That understandable! 

So what peacocks stay 5~ inches and how many can i have?


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## samorama (Apr 9, 2011)

get a bigger tank. you'll be much happier with a 55. or rethink your stocking. maybe some Tanganyikan shellies would be quite happy in a 20L.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

samorama said:


> get a bigger tank. you'll be much happier with a 55. or rethink your stocking. maybe some Tanganyikan shellies would be quite happy in a 20L.


I can only get basic cichlids and can't order online!
The largest i can go is 20g


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

You can possibly go for a dwarf species of an aulonocara such as the Maylandi or the Kandeense.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

DanniGirl said:


> You can possibly go for a dwarf species of an aulonocara such as the Maylandi or the Kandeense.


Like I said I can only get basic cichlids and can't order online!


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## jbarilow (Apr 25, 2011)

check for German Blue (or yellow cant remember) Rams. They stay small and are not all that uncommon from what i have seen


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

jbarilow said:


> check for German Blue (or yellow cant remember) Rams. They stay small and are not all that uncommon from what i have seen


Ok i sure will see if i like them!


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

jbarilow said:


> check for German Blue (or yellow cant remember) Rams. They stay small and are not all that uncommon from what i have seen


I did some research and it seems like they are hard to keep! Here is one of those link http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/germanblueram.php

BTW I am new to cichlids but have kept live bearers and tetras!


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## jbarilow (Apr 25, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> I did some research and it seems like they are hard to keep! Here is one of those link


dont be scared


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

jbarilow said:


> Aulonocara_Freak said:
> 
> 
> > I did some research and it seems like they are hard to keep! Here is one of those link
> ...


so don't be scared and wast my MONEY!


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> jbarilow said:
> 
> 
> > Aulonocara_Freak said:
> ...


Don't believe everything you read  they were the first cichlids I ever kept and they were easy even when I was new to fish keeping in general.

Just a thought to everyone here, would 5 (1m4f) of a <5" peaceful mbuna work in a 20L (like rusties, labs, etc.)


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

JoelRHale said:


> Just a thought to everyone here, would 5 (1m4f) of a <5" peaceful mbuna work in a 20L (like rusties, labs, etc.)


That is what I want in my 20L but peacocks not mbunas!


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

The difference is mbuna aren't open water swimmers. And female mbuna of peaceful species are fairly nonterritorial. So you'd have one single male in 30x12 space with a harem. My male johanni spends all of his days in less than one square feet of space unless he chases an intruder. But even then it's less than 2 feet before he retreats to his kingdom.

Instead of 2 species of peacocks what about one trio? I think that could *maybe* work if you lightly decorated it.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

If going the route that Joel is advocating, I would recommend psuedo saulosi.

They shouldn't be as aggressive as johanni & probably more attractive & they are a dwarf species. Met. Msobo/Membe Deep is another thought but they get really large as adults.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Saulosi would be great, the blue/black male and 4 yellow females, it would definitely be a colorful buzz of activity in a smaller tank. It would also only be barely overstocked with 5.

Are those Saulosi in your avatar or a dem with some labs *cantrell00*?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok thanks for the help everyone!  
There are the types of cichlids i can get! http://www.petsmart.com/search/index.js ... y|Live+Pet

I can also get a-few others from another store. So please tell me what i can get as far as these cichlids.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> Are those Saulosi in your avatar or a dem with some labs cantrell00


Dems & labs but If I had to do it over again, I would swap the dems for saulosi... Just so much easier to sex & multiple males aren't the issue that they are with Demasoni.

180:

Dems
Labs
Red Zebra
Hara
Johanni

I will be soon swapping the Johanni for Cyno Lion, Lions' Cove if I can get the Cyno Lions to spawn in a 40 breeder... Catching these fish in a 180 is a nightmare!


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## AlphaWild (Apr 9, 2009)

Have you looked for local breeders or fish clubs in your area? Some of the suggestions you turned down aren't all that exotic and are readily available amongst locals in my neck of the woods. Better quality than you'll find at any chain store, too. For what it's worth, I kept 1M/4F Aulonocara "Kandeense" in a 29g while making space in a 75g for their ultimate home. It was way too small, IMHO. These are considered the most peaceful of peacocks, and when the male was feeling his oats, the females were practically bouncing off the glass to avoid him. I have talked to someone who has kept breeding groups in a 30L, but not easily. I wouldn't try it in anything less myself.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

cantrell00 said:


> > Catching these fish in a 180 is a nightmare!


You aren't kidding. Catching that Auratus a few days ago in my
75 took about 15 minutes and I had to remove
All but one piece of rock out of my tank.

Once I move away from a 4' tank and go bigger my plan is to distribute the rock work in quarters (without being obvious about it). That way when I need to catch a specific fish I can put some kind of divider in the tank, only have to remove 5-6 rocks then easily catch him.

As for fish from petsmart's selection and what you can keep in a 20L, what about 4 convicts (wait until they pair up and get rid of the other two) and some tetras like you initially wanted and maybe a Chinese algae eater or dwarf loach or a small catfish.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

AlphaWild said:


> Have you looked for local breeders or fish clubs in your area?


Yes I did! 

Here is a list of mbuna's and peacocks i want. I know they can't be kept together!

Mbuna
1. Labeotropheus trewavasae 
2. Electric Yellow Mbuna
3. Melanochromis auratus
4. Pseudotropheus crabro 
5. Kenyi African Cichlid 
6. Pseudotropheus zebra 
7. Electric Blue Cichlid

Peacock's
1. aulonocara stuartgranti
2. aulonocara ethelwynnae
3. aulonocara baenschi benga
4. aulonocara rubescens

*Can u guys tell me which ones can be in a 20g Long?*


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## 702Cichlid (Feb 28, 2010)

I can't speak on the peacocks, but I will chime in on your mbuna. Of all the species you picked, most are too large and aggressive for a 55, let alone a 20 long. The only I'd even feel comfortable saying to go ahead and try would be the Labidochromis Caeruleus Lion's Cove (aka Yellow Labs or electric yellows) in a small harem group of 1 male and 2 females. Take this advice with the caveat that it still might not work if you get an agro male.

Honestly if you can't get bigger than a 20L I would seriously look into purchasing online as it's only slightly more expensive and you open up a whole bunch of dwarf mbuna and peacock species as well as several of the lake Tanganyika species who would do fantastic in a twenty long.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Thanks! 

I was looking in to those but it seems hard to tell if they are male or female!
If i did get 1 male 2 females could i get some Tetras?


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## jbarilow (Apr 25, 2011)

Are you restricted to a 20 gal because of the space to put it? If it is a cost issue, you may want to take a little more time and plan/save for a larger tank. I think in the end you will be much happier. I started my daughter in a 10gal (non-cichlid), recently moved her to a 20 (gourami and a couple German Blue Rams (those to come in a couple weeks), and now I am finding myself wanting a larger tank. so i am currently planning a 75gal setup. I dont have the money to run out and get it all right now so I will be doing it over time and planning it out so I dont waste money.

If it is the local petstore only carrying 20gal tanks (have seen someone post that before), check places like craigslist or other online classifieds for your local area since you said you cant order online. Also if this is the case just ask petsmart locally if they can order in a larger tank, they do sell them in other areas.

In the end, do what you gotta do, and be happy with your selection :thumb:

Like me you are still learning and I think that is half the fun


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

It is do to space! I have no where else to but a larger one! :lol:


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

The tetras would likely get bullied with any mbuna and also not get any share of the food.

You should take a look at the black or pink convicts. You'd get the cichlid personality in a slightly more peaceful package that would be okay living in a 20L and would coexist with tetras. They also breed like crazy and you could find a LFS that might give you some money for them to use as feeders. You won't ever break even but it's nice to build a relationship with a LFS. You can trade your fry for food, supplies, other fish, store credit, or (for probably less) cold hard cash.


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## jbarilow (Apr 25, 2011)

Ahhh ok, I feel your pain on the space issue. I had to accept that if I wanted larger than a 29 gal tank I had to put it in the finished part of my basement. Not my first choice, but will make it more used than it is now ;p


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> Once I move away from a 4' tank and go bigger my plan is to distribute the rock work in quarters (without being obvious about it). That way when I need to catch a specific fish I can put some kind of divider in the tank, only have to remove 5-6 rocks then easily catch him.


Yup... I am rearranging mine this weekend to do just what you described above..

Here is a thread ona 29 gallon Psue. Saulosi Tank...

Considering the size of your tank, this is your best bet IMO.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=225098&highlight=


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

*jbarilow*, I rarely used my basement until I set up the 75 down there. I now spend almost all of my previous tv watching time down there in front of the tank. Water changes are terrible but the lack of natural light and the concrete base under the carpet gives me much more peace of mind about it.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

cantrell00 said:


> > Once I move away from a 4' tank and go bigger my plan is to distribute the rock work in quarters (without being obvious about it). That way when I need to catch a specific fish I can put some kind of divider in the tank, only have to remove 5-6 rocks then easily catch him.
> 
> 
> Yup... I am rearranging mine this weekend to do just what you described above..
> ...


What type of fish r those?
Would they work in my 20g?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

As for the convicts i looked at them but they aren't my stack of cash! :lol:


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Thats fine :thumb: just wanted to show you some options since you seem to really want tetras too!

The fish pictured are Pseudotropheus Saulosi. The blue/black ones are the males and the yellow ones are the females. People keep them in 29, which is the same footprint of a 20L, you could possibly do them. 5 of them would be a good start.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I will see if my LFS has them. They look just like Kenyi African Cichlids!


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

And they stay small and aren't evil. I'm not sure how much they cost but I know they are cheaper than Demasoni. Just a helpful tip, you should stay away from Kenyi, Auratus, and Bumblebees. Those are some pretty nasty cichlids, temperament wise.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

OK Thanks
but the list i gave earlier, are any of those good for the 20g Long?


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Mbuna 
1. Labeotropheus trewavasae- too big
2. Electric Yellow Mbuna- *possible* with 1m4f 
3. Melanochromis auratus- for the love of god no
4. Pseudotropheus crabro- this is the bumblebee- gets 8" long of pure evil
5. Kenyi African Cichlid- very aggressive (no Auratus but still mean)
6. Pseudotropheus zebra- *possible with 1m4f
7. Electric Blue Cichlid- several different species go by this common name but probably no to any of them.

Peacocks- I would just say no unless you wanted like one trio and nothing else.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> Mbuna
> 1. Labeotropheus trewavasae- too big
> 2. Electric Yellow Mbuna- *possible* with 1m4f
> 3. Melanochromis auratus- for the love of god no
> ...


+1.. Have I mentioned Psuedo Saulosi yet?


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> cantrell00 wrote:
> Once I move away from a 4' tank and go bigger my plan is to distribute the rock work in quarters (without being obvious about it). That way when I need to catch a specific fish I can put some kind of divider in the tank, only have to remove 5-6 rocks then easily catch him.
> 
> Yup... I am rearranging mine this weekend to do just what you described above..
> ...


Seriously?

Psuedo Saulosi...

I don't know long term but they are probably your best bet..


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

cantrell00 said:


> > cantrell00 wrote:
> > Once I move away from a 4' tank and go bigger my plan is to distribute the rock work in quarters (without being obvious about it). That way when I need to catch a specific fish I can put some kind of divider in the tank, only have to remove 5-6 rocks then easily catch him.
> >
> > Yup... I am rearranging mine this weekend to do just what you described above..
> ...


OK OK! :lol:

I went to my LFS not a chain-store to pick up some plants i ordered and I am so excited! While i was there they had assorted dwarf Cichlids and the norms. I asked if they could order some different types of cichlids and they said yes so i will take the recommendations and ask them. Now that i know this please give me all the types of colorful cichlids that will work in the 20g Long.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> Now that i know this please give me all the types of colorful cichlids that will work in the 20g Long


Sigh... I only really know Mbuna well, so outside of them I can't really help..

So, IF MBUNA, Psuedo Saulosi is the ONLY one I would recommend & it is "iffy" at best.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

+1 *cantrell00*

And then only with an exceptionally docile group.

What about rusty? That's another 4" mbuna that's reputed to be peaceful. I've never kept them (would love to have a group) but I've heard good things about them.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Also, check out apistogrammas. They are very colorful dwarf south American cichlids. I think your tastes lie with Africans but they are very colorful and would live in a 20L.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Rusty would work.. So would Labs but that is only 1 single color & would be boring..

I was insistent on the Saulosi because of the different & highly contrasting colors in the males/females.

The idea is caused me to consider setting up a colony of F1's that i can buy locally in a 40 gallon breeder.

I still regret not getting them instead of the Demasoni.... I am too heavily invested in the Demasoni now to turn back.. 30 of those guys are not cheap!


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

That's why I don't already have them! The plan is to get these electric blue johanni's and yellow labs breeding, then trade for rusties. Get them going, trade for white top hara and lose the labs. Get them breeding, trade for Saulosi and lose the johanni. Etc etc trading up for progressively more expensive/compatible mbuna until I can trade for demasoni. Or I can just spend the 100 or so bucks for 20-30 dems and be done with it haha.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> Or I can just spend the 100 or so bucks for 20-30 dems and be done with it haha.


This will be cheaper in the long run, JMO.

Do you ever check on aquabid? That is a good place to look.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Yeah there's really nothing good on there right now (was on like two days ago, something could be there, will check now). Some SRT Hongi but I already have the yellow lab. Not really into cyno either.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

> Not really into cyno either


WHAT????????? :x

Just kidding & to each their own.

I think they are awesome. Aggressive enough to have personality but not lethal killers either. It is true that most of the females are bland but the males are total bada$$.

Sorry for the hi-jack Aulonocara_Freak. I will take this conversation elsewhere...


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Just checked. There's 5 for $30 plus 30 shipping and a bid war for 10 of them that I don't really want to get in on haha.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Don't blame you...

I know a guy that sells F1's for a very reasonable price.. I will see if I can find the email & PM you.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Haha, as for cyno, I'm not against them, but I'm not falling over myself to get some. But then again, I've not had them, seen one in person, or have heard much about them. I find the things I end up liking the most are the things I resist liking at first. So I'm sure before this is done cynos will have a place in my heart.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Ok guys/girls thanks so far. :lol:

Can all of u please give me a list of colorful dwarf cichlids that will work in the tank?


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

cantrell00 said:


> Seriously?
> 
> *Psuedo Saulosi... *
> 
> I don't know long term but they are probably your best bet..





JoelRHale said:


> +1 *cantrell00*
> 
> And then only with an exceptionally docile group.
> 
> What about *rusty*? That's another 4" mbuna that's reputed to be peaceful. I've never kept them (would love to have a group) but I've heard good things about them.





DanniGirl said:


> You can possibly go for a dwarf species of an aulonocara such as the *Maylandi* or the *Kandeense*.


From your list, Aul. stuartgranti covers numerous variants of peacocks so I would avoid that all together. The Bengas, Rubescenes and electric blues get much too large for a 20 gal. L. 
So, the only one that _could_ work from your list, is the *aulonocara ethelwynnae*. -Heavy emphasis on the word 'could' because a 20 gal. L for any peacock group is risky. As said before, your best bet is a small breeding group.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> Ok guys/girls thanks so far. :lol:
> 
> Can all of u please give me a list of colorful dwarf cichlids that will work in the tank?


Anyone?


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Aulonocara_Freak

Everyone has weighed in & your options are limited in a tank that small...


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

cantrell00 said:


> Aulonocara_Freak
> 
> Everyone has weighed in & your options are limited in a tank that small...


I guess so.  Sorry for being annoying


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Not annoyed.. There just isn't much left to add...

Get a 4' tank (55 gal?) & you have a lot more options available. :thumb:


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

cantrell00 said:


> Not annoyed.. There just isn't much left to add...
> 
> Get a 4' tank (55 gal?) & you have a lot more options available. :thumb:


OKAY! 

I have a few more questions on apisto's.

1. apistogramma cacatuoides
2. apistogramma borellii
3. apistogramma hongsloi
4. Apistogramma macmasteri 
5. apistogramma papagei

Are these good beginner apisto's?
Which ones can go together?
Which are the easiest to breed?


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Can't help you on those...


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