# 220 gal How large a colony ?



## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

Ok I have a 220 gal tank (72"x25"x32") I'm setting up and I wanted to put frontosas as the main spesies. How many can I sucsesfuly put in there? I would like to breed them as well so is it 1m to 3 f or is it somthing differeent? thanx for any advice.


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## tirzo13 (May 26, 2004)

Its still a 6 footer, though 100 gallons more than a standard 125 6 footer.

6-8 full size adults.
1:7
2:6
3:5, something like that.

I prefer 1 male, but many people prefer to use more than 1.


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## dutt7 (Apr 10, 2003)

i think that is on the low side, but depending on who you talk to that number changes. Currently I have a 180 gallon tank and I have 18 WC mobas in there right now. alpha is 14" and smallest is 7" 4m/14f. they breed and no nip fins or anything. I have tons of filtration and caves for them though. I do plan on taking out 2m/5f to put in another tank, but I am keeping 2/9 in the 180.

again, it all depends on the fish, if you put more than suggested, just watch their behavior good and you should tell if there will be a problem or not.

me personally, in a 240 with those dimensions, I'd keep probably 15 3/12 or some ratio like that.


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## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

Ok I know this is an old thread I started but I only got two replies and they were diferent in opinions so I wanted some more opinions on the mater.

P.S. I know its ben 1 1/2 yrs but because we had twins last yr and every thing was on hold as far as fish go :x but in the next month or so I hope to be done.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

i agree with tirzo13 on numbers/floor size, but personally, i prefer to have two males. not for their needs. more for mine, because i like to witness a modest level of male/male confrontation. 
too many fish, as dutt7 is suggesting, and you will see similar confrontation between female/female. even though this may not be dangerous to the fish physically, it is a scenario that complicates the harmony within a tank. having two male spar for space is one concern. having every fish in the tank act that way is unattractive.
the same issue will need to be addressed if/when you decide to mix other species into the community. avoid other substrate spawning types of fish (eg. most anything from malawi, tropheus, featherfins). add open/top water types incapable of breeding, or choose cave/crevice spawners (eg. lamprologines), to lessen competition for the same spaces within your tank. HTH.


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## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

yeah I was realy debating wether to make it a hap tank or front colany I think I'm leaning to more twords the fronts they are just really cool with awsome color. as far as a stocking list to add would this be ok? and if the amount and specis is not a good mix and would a clavus be ok to add?

1 x Bristlenose Pleco 
8 x Julie marlieri 
8 x Cyp. leptosoma "Bulu Point" 
8 x Cypho. frontosa "Mpimbwe"


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

MightyWarMonger said:


> ...as far as a stocking list to add would this be ok? and if the amount and specis is not a good mix and would a clavus be ok to add?
> 
> 1 x Bristlenose Pleco
> 8 x Julie marlieri
> ...


 stocking is always a personal preference, so here's mine:
i would consider more pleco. singles hide 24/7. multiples help them to courage out into the open. a larger omnivore type pleco, would be another option to consider. add some wood into your decor either way. they will preference that area, over any rock work, and reduce confrontations with other fish. both juli and alto (calvus, comps) are good choices. i prefer to keep alto in pairs, possibly 2 pr. in a tank your size. julidochromis are nice as singles or pairs. cyps would be better off in much larger groups. you have natural predators on your list, and the cyps would do better if allowed to confuse/crowd open areas. i would either add 16-20, and expect to loose a few once in awhile, or forget them altogether. they are also expensive options if/when your fronts get the taste for them. your frontosa group of 8 is good, IMO. one or two males only.
personally, i try to break the urge, to have every species in breeding groups. that compounds aggressions. 
there are other fish that can be considered, if you can find them. check out the tanganykan oddities list, here in the profiles section. for example, i have kept grammatotria, oreochromis, bentochromis, lobochilotes, and greenwoodochromis with cypho in a tank your size. HTH.


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## dutt7 (Apr 10, 2003)

I still disagree, I ended up with 16 fronts in my 240. 3/13 ratio. In a tank that size and colony that large, I suggest three males to spread out the aggression of the alpha when he gets in his moods. I've seen from others and experienced myself that when you have two males and that one male picks on one other individual constantly, this causes problems. females do get aggressive at times, again, one female being aggressive to one other female is much worse than that same female being aggressive to 10 others. if you have the size and filtering capability. I would not suggest less than 10 in a tank that size and if they are really large like mine were, 15-16 I think was the perfect match with atleast three males.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

dutt7 said:


> I still disagree, I ended up with 16 fronts in my 240...and if they are really large like mine were, 15-16 I think was the perfect match.


 here's my problem with your numbers:
inside diameter of tank is 71x23=1633 sq. inches. by your numbers, your average fish is 10". 10"x10" =100 sq. inch/fish then, to turn around 'on the dime'. that, x 16 fish=1600 sq. inches. got any rock in that tank? i hope they are small, because considering how flighty cypho can be, the numbers here show how difficult it will be for any fish to move without hitting them. no insult intended, but your tank was crowded, IMHO. 
we all have different experiences. we all have different opinions.


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## dutt7 (Apr 10, 2003)

no problem, i like friendly arguements like this. 
quick calculations below, dont hold me to them, trying to work right now also

if you want numbers, let me add that my 240 was 8 ft. long. 
so tank was 96"L x 24"W = 2,304 inches square.

average 10" fish you say is 10"L x 10"T = here is where I have an issue with your calcs. 
you base your tank calcs on Length and Width. Fish calcs on Length and Height/Depth/Tall.

you are not comparing apples to apples here.

if you use L and W then fish 10"L x 2"W = 20 square inches per fish x 16 fish = 
2304/320 = ratio of 7:1, not too good, but this is on a linear basis

if you use L, W and D and utilize the full area of the tank then:
tank is 96" L x 24" W x 24" D = 55,296 cubic inches

fish 10" L x 2" W x 6" T (10" tall fish would be wall mountable!!) 120" x 16 fish = 1920 cubic inches

55,296 / 1920 = ratio of almost 30:1 when factoring in depth.

tank was not overcrowded


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

dutt7 said:


> if you use L and W then fish 10"L x 2"W = 20 square inches per fish...if you use L, W and D and utilize the full area of the tank then: tank is 96" L x 24" W x 24" D = 55,296 cubic inches...= ratio of almost 30:1 when factoring in depth.


 sorry...i didn't know you canned yours. :lol: i do get closer to agreeing with your numbers for an 8 ft. tank. a 3rd male is no worries there, and extra females are always welcome. i do not consider height of tank to be relevant with population of frontosa.
would you reduce your cypho numbers to allow for other species? after all, the poster is considering that type of set up over species only....?


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## dutt7 (Apr 10, 2003)

had both types, species only and mixed. prefer species only, my fronts just seemed happier.

i have to consider height especially on a tank thats 6 or 8 feet long. 18" T tank compared to 24"-30" tank makes a big difference.

After all, my fronts do swim right side up and not laying down. :thumb:


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## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

lloyd said:


> MightyWarMonger said:
> 
> 
> > ...as far as a stocking list to add would this be ok? and if the amount and specis is not a good mix and would a clavus be ok to add?
> ...


Well I was thinking about 2 plecos but was not sure. as far as adding 16-20 cyps is it ok to keep the current stock and ad those numbers you listed? I didn't want to over stock the tank. so would the list below be ok or would I need to add or remove some from it. I was trying to go off of both you're opinions to find a middle ground is this ok for my tanks footprint my math is not so good lol.

72" L x 25" W 32" D = 57,600 cubic inches

fish 10" L x 2" W x 6" 120" x 16 fish = 1440 cubic inches (borrowed figures as I don't have the fish ATM)

57,600/1440 = ratio of about 40:1 when factoring in depth
of course this is just the frontosa not including my other stocking choices

2 x Bristlenose Pleco 
8 x Julie marlieri 
16 x Cyp. leptosoma "Bulu Point" 
12 x Cypho. frontosa "Mpimbwe" 3M/9F
4 x calvus 2 black 2 gold


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## dutt7 (Apr 10, 2003)

I think your pretty good with that number of frontosa in a 250 even though its only 6 ft long.

if you plan to add more fish, i may drop the number of fronts by two or three though.

Also, sure you know and I can tell you from experience. All those fish on your fish will become fish food evenutally.

I've had cyps, julies, calvus and bristlenose plecos eaten by my fronts.

P.S. Thats how I stumbled upon a species only tank, fronts ate all their tank mates!!


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

MightyWarMonger said:


> 2 x Bristlenose Pleco
> 8 x Julie marlieri
> 16 x Cyp. leptosoma "Bulu Point"
> 12 x Cypho. frontosa "Mpimbwe" 3M/9F
> 4 x calvus 2 black 2 gold


 because your tank is only 72", i stand by my max count of frontosa. 12 is too many. i would choose between either juli or comps, or restrict one species to 1 or 2 male. with that in mind, comps do better in pairs. yes, you might loose some cyps. only you can decide if the sacrifice is worth it to you. IMO, they are a pretty fish worth considering. feed your frontosa well and pick a bigger variant, if available. for example: avoid blue flash, some leptosoma jumbo are double their size. just remember--you were warned about the carnivore issue. 8)


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## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

point well taken and I'm willing to accept any losses the fronts deal out, if I end up with a speices only tank then so be it but I would like to try and get some other speices in there.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

if you loose any fish to the cypho, expect it to happen at night. cypho like to browse the floor for grub at night...and cyps like to sleep on the floor same time. i've never tried it, but considering tang tanks do best with low lighting, perhaps leaving lights on 24/7 might help the cyps. follow up here with your experiences please.


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## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

I will follow up but I can tell you now I will not leave the lights on 24/7 lol I just had a $500 electric bill and havent even hooked the 220g tank up yet :?


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