# new to cichlids



## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

hi everybody, *** been keeping smaller tetras for a few years but now that i have a big tank i want to venture into keeping bigger fish. my tank is a 125 6 x 18 x 22 it wont be setup for a few weeks so im just getting some ideas. i am thinking of having 1 jaguar cichld 1 texas cichlid(the regular not the green) and 1 salvini cichlid how does this list look and would this work for life casue i probably wont be getting a bigger tank any time soon


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## steve_58 (Jan 20, 2009)

I don't think the Jaguar in with those is a good idea, especially with the salvini. From what i've read and from the questions i've ask the Jaguar is a real killer and will fight till it or the other fish is dead.Ihave a Salvini and it is pretty peaceful and stays under cover alot.


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## phishes (May 17, 2005)

I think it would work. Jags can be aggressive, but not that bad. A 125g is a decent amount of room for the three for life. Buy them all at once, and that will reduce the aggression.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well i might get a jag but if i dont could a trimac work


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

oh and everything i hear about jags confuses me cause ill read that jags are killers and will kill anything no matter how big the tank then ill read that jags arent that bad and can be kept with tankmates in 125s


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

It depends on the fish. Cichlids each have vastly different personalities that vary fish to fish, not just species to species. Mostly, Jags are very aggressive, but whether it would work would depend on your specific fish. Your best bet if you want to try it is to introduce them all together as juveniles and let them grow up together. Just be prepared to removed the Jag later if need be.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Trimacs can be highly aggressive as well and grow fairly large. As *SinisterKisses* stated it depends on the individual but the Trimac will try to dominate the tank and the Texas will not know when to back off. Singally or in pairs they would be fine but in a community probably not.


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## Kellem (Mar 19, 2009)

Well the Jag would certainly declare dominance as its quite abit larger then the rest but its doable in a 125.
You said regular not green,Carpintes "green" are much more popular around here.

Try to get a male Salvini,females are considerably smaller,4" compared to 6 to 8" and males can hold there own against larger tankmates.

Introduce them together in the tank,makes for a more peaceful community.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well after spending most of today reading about jags *** decided i got to have one so i will more then likely stock my 125 with 1 jaguar cichlid, 1 salvini, and 1 texas, so not thinking about the aggression would this stock work out long term size wise. also can anybody share their experiences with jags


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

16 inches of potential murderous mayhem, sure it's do-able but I'm thinking your gonna end up with just a Jag by the time it hits maturity. Constant pestering from the Texas should ensure that :lol: . Texas ,Salvini,another cichlid of choice sounds a lot less hostile IMO. A single Jag or maybe a pair could (emphasis on could) work , however even then there could be issues as even pairs can be very rough on each other. Kinda the problem with Parachromis species. Big and mean and sometime think things outside the tank belong to them :lol: . If you don't believe that try owning a Dovii.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

That is what i was going for and everyone here told me to go with a smaller Parachromis species instead. I ended up with the stock list you see below but everything is only a couple inches so not sure how it will work long term.

I say try it and see. Worse case scenario you have to choose the fish you like best later. The rub is that by the time you have problems you are kind of S.O.L trying to add anything new. Something to think about.


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

First off congrats on giving cichilds a try they are awsome fish. IMO they are the most enjoyable fish to own.

I like that you are going big for you first tank, to many people on this site try to get everything they want in a 55 or less. You have the right tank for this but I still have my doubts. I would say even though sals can hold their own with larger tankmates I would leave them out. When all is said and done and they are full grown the jag could eat the sal. And I imagine it would be hard to fight back when you are in another fishes mouth.

Good luck with it all!


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## Hrafen (Feb 19, 2005)

Nothing is guaranteed. But... If it came to it. The Jag would win. I suspect this would in time be the final result. Or from the Jag's perspective the final solution.

I'd try for 4, drop the Jag, add a Jack and a male Con. Or a pair of Cons.

Just a view.


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

While there IS the potential for the Jag to reach 16", lets be honest, the majority of jags probably will not reach that size. You have no idea the breeding stock they came from if you buy from a store, so you don't know if that jags parents topped out at 11", or even 8". Average is just that, remember to have an average, that means there has to be something UNDER the average.

I have kept a few jags, they didn't impress me much as far as aggression goes. My motaguensis was far more aggressive. My friedrichsthalli are even less aggressive then the jags I had. Never kept dovii or loisellei so I can't comment there.

Have you considered a grammodes? By appearance they look like a parachromis but are still listed as "cichlasoma" I believe. Max size is usually 12" so in all reality, you're probably looking at closer to 10", gorgeous fish though, they look like mini-dovii. They can still be nasty, but the size of the fish would be more in line with the other tank mates. Doesn't make a lot of sense for the most aggressive fish in the tank to also be the biggest, thats just setting yourself up for dead tank mates if you happen to get a very aggressive managuensis.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

*con-man-dan*
The best strategy is to stock tanks according to the max size of the fish planning to be kept as well as it's potential for aggression. I've never personally seen a Jag less than 12" or one that wasn't a maniac, though I do agree that most comercially bred cichlids are a mixed bag when it comes to blood lines. Short of buying from a reputable breeder good stock is a rare find. In any case I suggest staying away from Jags in a community setting. Just my two cents.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well thank you for everyones thoughts on this i may still do the jag texas and sal but this might change


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well guys the more i like about i may not get a jag anymore, so i thinking of a different cichlid that could replace the jag in the setup with 1 texas and 1 sal. i like red bay snook, robertsonis, motaguensis, freddys, synspilums, grommodes, vieja argentea, true red terror. out of these i like the vieja synspilum, red bay snook the best.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

hey everybody, im still thinking about the jag, so im wondering which stock list would work out better long term in the 125 gal im gonna get. 1) 1 jaguar and 1 texas and 1 sal 2) 1 jaguar and 1 texas, and 1 synspilum 3) 1 jaguar and 1 texas 4) 1 synspilum, 1 texas and 1 sal 5) 1 synspilum and 1 texas


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

hey, *** been thinking of switching out the jag in my proposed stock list to a mota, or freddy, or losillie, so how would this work out long term in a 125 gal. 1 mota, freddy, or losillie, 1 synspilum, 1 texas, and 1 sal.


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

well you'll be packing it in kind of tight with 4 fish. but in any kind of mix, from my personal experience I would suggest the freddy. I have kept jags, mota and freddy, the freddy seem to be the most "community" minded of the parachromis, but still can be nasty. my mota has a real attitude problem lol


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well guys the more i think about the stock i would like to do in my 125 gal i might leave out the parachromis all together and do something like 1 vieja synspilum, 1 texas, 1 sal. now would it be possible to add another vieja to the tank or would two viejas not work. if it is possible i like argentea, regani, blacktail.


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

unless they are a pair, 2 vieja are usually a bad idea. a lot of vieja aren't too terribly aggressive, except with conspecifics. now there are some other similar fish that might work, like theraps, or chuco (if you can find some that is) otherwise I think a vieja, cyanogutattus and a salvini would make a nice tank


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well even though viejas together in the same tank are a bad idea if theyre not a pair how would 1 synspilum 1 texas 1 sal and 1 hartweg or 1 black tail work out long term in the 125 gal. if that wont work what about a robertsoni, or blue araca, nic, hrp, bocourti(one of these not all), but i would really like to have in my 125 is 1 synspilum, 1 texas, 1 sal, and 1 hartweg


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

con-man-dan said:


> unless they are a pair, 2 vieja are usually a bad idea. a lot of vieja aren't too terribly aggressive, except with conspecifics. now there are some other similar fish that might work, like theraps, or chuco (if you can find some that is) otherwise I think a vieja, cyanogutattus and a salvini would make a nice tank


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well guys after thinking about some more i dont think im gonna get two types of viejas, im just gonna stock my 125 gal with 1 synspilum, 1 texas 1 sal and mabey 1 smaller cichlid to be named later(any ideas on which smaller cichlid will work). and do both male and female synspilum get 14 to 16 inches.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

do yall think that my 125 gal will be maxed out with 1 synspilum 1 texas and 1 sal, or could i add one more smaller cichlid like a con or firemouth or hrp or mabey a nic.


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

I was gonna say a nic would make a good 4th. Then id say you're full. The sal and nic will really be bottom cover hangers, with the syn and tex probably more out in the open. Id suggest lots of big branchy pieces of driftwood, and a few large rocks, maybe a pile or two of smaller sized rocks for the nic and sal to call home. And lots of filtration lol gotta remember when they're full grown (before ya know it too!) You're going to have just shy of 4 feet of cichlid


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Here's a second thought to all of this, try to keep them the same sex. Easy enough to tell for the Texas and Sal, a bit tougher with the nick and Vieja. The reason is simple , spawning. Practically all (and maybe even all) CA cichlids can cross breed. If one ends up being the opposite sex then it will probably pair up with one of the others and a relatively peacefull tank can turn into a war zone with a quickness. Any little bit extra you can do to help insure tranquility in that setup will be well worth the effort .


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

so 1 synspilum 1 texas 1 sal and 1 nic will be able to live in the 125 long term and not get in each others way, and it wont be overstocked


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

No it won't be overstocked , but it will be full for all practical purposes. The only big if in all of this is the personalities of the individual cichlids. It should work but one highly aggressive individual could spoil it. Just keep an eye on it and look for any signs that one is trying to own the tank. Other than that I think it should be fine. Oh, and since you'll probably be getting these guys as juvies I'd add plenty of dithers to add intrest to the tank untill the cichlids grow out to attract attention on their own and give the little guys something to occupy themselves with instead of each other.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well im set on getting 1 synspilum 1 texas and 1 sal but im not sure if im gonna get a nic. will a firemouth work instead of a nic, also is lace rock ok to use in my tank.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Lace rock should be fine .CAs like a little higher PH anyhow. Id still try to go with a Nic (but that's just my oppinion) as opposed to a firemouth, but yeah you can do that. I think a Nic would be more impressive though.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well im not sure if i want a nic or firemouth yet, but i still have some time to decide. i just got the tank today so ill be setting it up this week and then i just got to let it cycle. i think ill get some lace rock cause there are some nice sized chunks at my lfs.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

oh and i was wondering since lace rock raises the ph would the more lace rock you have raise the ph more than the less lace rock


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

yes but only to a point. mostly it will help maintain ph and hardness and prevent PH fall off. if your doing good maintenance it won't be an issue anyway. check your local tap water, you may not need any carbonate source for PH and hardness since many local water suppies are already great for CAs with regard to chemistry. other than that the only reason I can see to use it (lace rock) is asthetics. that's up to you.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well i should be setting up the tank in a day or so, so i just need to get the rocks and driftwood which ill get tomorrow. that brings me to my question is red slate ok to use, and what other type of rocks will work.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well i should be setting up the tank in a day or so, so i just need to get the rocks and driftwood which ill get tomorrow. that brings me to my question is red slate ok to use, and what other type of rocks will work.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Most rock is fine. What you'll want to avoid is rocks with metalic components ie pyrites and Hemotite. Pyrites and Hemotite will oxidize in the water and cause heavy metal poisoning. If you see rusty spots or streaks don't use that rock. Also if you see shiney metal looking spots don't use it either. Most everything else is good to go. Carbonate rocks such as marble and limestone can and do raise PH so be aware when using them that they can alter water chemistry. Slate is generally safe , and most every thing else is too. If you collect your own rock be sure of the source. Rocks from rivers and streams can be used but should be cleaned thoroughly before adding to your tank. Many here advocate baking or boilling as an extra precaution. If you get it from a landscape supplier it probably just needs a good scrub in hot water to get any contaminates ( dirt , spilled soda, raod grime , ect.) off .


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

hey guys, i should be setting up the tank tomorrow. but *** been thinking of the fish i want , and am still not sure anymore. so do you think a red bay snook or a choclate cichlid would work in place of the synspilum or texas


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Snooks get pretty big and have a *HUGE* mouth that lets them swallow fish almost their own size , cant say much for aggression as I have no personal experience with them. Chocolates are kinda like Oscars temperment wise. Generally they are gental giants but not as big as Oscars . They normally wont take any **** from their tankmates but won't usually dish it out either. If it were me stocking your tank I'd do this, : 1 Chocolate, 1 Amphilophus Robertsoni 2 Sajica , and a bunch of hardy dithers . The Robertsoni get pretty big but aren't insanely aggressive like most Amphilophus species, and they are a sand sifting species . The chocolate cause well their just cool and cant handle some aggression if they have to. Sajicas because they are beautiful when mature , with males developing a nice nuchal hump. I think this set up give a good range of fish size and should be fairly peaceful . Just get them all as juvies and grow them out together so they can establish their own bounderies with each other. For decor , sand substrate with lots of rocks and drift wood to help the fish establish and define territory. Also it helps to arrange hiding spots and sight breaks with the rock and wood to give a fish a chance to get away if it is needed. With that stock though you'd need to bump up your filtration and waterchange percentage / frequency. Dont be afraid to add and extra canister to the set up and change a little more water.

Now I know this isn't my tank, but I hope that the scenario I've written helps you a bit. I know the hardest part is deciding what to stock , but It's easy to come up with a stocklist that isn't all big bruisers. Part of this is experience , 90% is reaserch . Also don't be affraid to order fish . Your LFS will normally stock what sells , but will normally order fish if you request it . You may have to pay up front for what you want , but they'll normally do special orders. Just take some time do some more reaserch on different species. Try comming up with a list of species that has a more moderate level of aggression . You'll probably much happier for it.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

thanks for the info joels fish, now im not set on a stock list yet so im still thinking out of all the profiles *** read right now the vieja are what i like the best, even though i have now experience keeping them. what i would like is a setup that would let me have two viejas in the tank wether thier a pair or not. so if this is possible how would this work 1 synspilum, 1 hartwegi, and 1 salvini. if this wont work what about a choclate in place of one of the vieja.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

MY personal choice is to exchange the Synspillum for the Chocolate. Probably not what you want to hear, but the Syns can be big nasty fish , I'm not real sure about the Hartwegi, but I think taking the Synspilum out of the picture makes this a little more doable. Kinda sucks too cause the Synspilum are beautiful fish.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

ok well if i do keep the syn, what would be a good stock list. also is there anyway that two viejas would work that arent a pair. also what about 1 syn 1 bocurti 1 sal


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

The issues are size and attitude. The Syn is the wild card. I think it can work, but you'll want to keep a close eye on things since dispite the size of the 125, with two large cichlids there won't be much room to run if it comes down to a fight . Plus filtration becomes even more important. I'd step it up some for that kind of set up . Two big fish equals lots of waste.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well if i dont go with 1 syn 1 bocurti and 1 sal, would 1 syn 1 other type of vieja(like hartweg or black tail) and 1 sal work. ill keep a close eye on them and step up the filtration


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

oh and if a syn wont work what about a black tail vieja. something like 1 black tail vieja 1 texas 1 sal or 1 black tail vieja 1 syn and 1 sal


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Two viejas is a bad idea. They will fight because they are so similar and there is no room too run in a tank that size for two fish that size.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

ok i dont want that so i think ill go with 1 syn or 1 black tail, 1 texas and 1 sal. so i have two questions 1 out of the syn and black tail which would the best fit and and do both male and female syns get hugh and mean


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

oh and 1 more idea would 1 red devil, 1 texas and 1 sal, if not then ill more than likely go with 1 syn 1 texas and 1 sal


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

When did Bocourti get lumped in with the Vieja ?

Red devils don't make good tankmates for much except Red devils of the opposite sex , even then it's a risky proposition. They can sometimes work while young but as they mature they become more aggressive . Sometimes overnight ,kinda like they just snap and try to take out everything . The robertsoni I had mentioned before would work better since they are on the more friendly end of the Amphilophus line up.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well the tank is set up so i just gotta cycle it. now as for the stock im still not sure, as for the bocurti i was just thinking about other fish i dont think ill get one. the only thing im sure on is the texas and sal, im still going back and forth on the syn. what i would like is a setup that would be the texas, sal, and one other largeish cichlid. what would be a good largeish cichlid for my stock.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

hi everybody, well im still not sure on what i want, so *** been thinking all day, so far im leaning towards a few ideas. i may leave out the syn all together, and go with one of the smaller parachromis. so how does this sound, 1 mota, losille, or freddy(not all three just one), 1 texas, and 1 sal


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well how does this stock list sound for long term success, 1 freddy, 1 texas, 1 sal, and 1 cutteri because this is what im thinking of going with right now anyway


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Sounds a lot like mine. :lol:

Everything i have so far is still at about the two inch mark other than the cutteri which is about four. To early to tell if it is going to work long term though. I have doubts about the loiselli though they are pretty aggressive already and very small.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

I've heard on several forums where people have kept freddies in communities successfully but cant comment from personal experience with them. *dafishman2323* I think at this point I'd just try one and go for it . If it starts looking like trouble then you might need to rehome the offender. Getting yourself a good tank divider would be a handy investment as well. Most of what you've been thinking about seems to have a good shot at success (Syn Texas and Sal) and as long as you dont end up with a fish with a chip on his shouder I think it will work . The adult size of the Syn might be a point of concern as it could easiliy dominate that tank, but so long as your prepaired to interveen should things get out of hand I cant see a reason not to give it a shot.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well guys it looks like im gonna with 1 freddy, 1 texas, 1 sal and 1 cutteri. also is a ph of 7.6 to high or will they be fine


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Just about right for CAs. Cutteri might be a bit onthe small side for that tank , but you never know . Some thoughtfull aquascaping will increase the odds of the Cutteri working out.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I wouldn't mess with the pH. While I'd want it higher for most centrals, they are very adaptable and I don't like playing with the water if I don't have to.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well guys it looks like i wont be getting a freddy, since i cant find any locally and the place i ordered the cutteri from doesnt have any so i might try and find some later so with that said i still going with 1 texas 1 sal and 1 cutteri any suggestions on what might work in place of the freddy i was thinking mabey a mota, losillei, trimac,


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

oh i might go with 1 grommodes, 1 texas, 1 sal and cutteri does this look like it could work long term


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

No experience with grammodes but sounds doable.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

oh and one more idea would a black nasty have any chance of working


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Nandopsis are kinda tricky from what I hear, need high water quality, prone to bloat,ect. Grammodes aren't known for playing well with others either. Cool fish though.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well im probably gonna go with a loisellie cause i like how the parachromis look


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well im still thinking of ordering from ken davis,so if i do i was wordering if a midas would work with 1 texas 1 sal and 1 cutteri, or are they just like rds


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Just like RDs for all practical puposes. A LFS here has a full grown Midas in a 125 display, almost looks to big for the tank :lol: . He's freindly as they come and has a massive hump :thumb: . Verry cool 8) . I cant imagine anything else in that tank, the Midas is so massive that even if He would allow it there's no way anything bigger than a Convict would fit.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well guys, im gonna go with 1 grammodes, 1 texas, 1 sal, and 1 cutteri, how does this look long term and do you think i have some room left for either a mota, losiellie, or a freddy


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well guys i have some news, i was at my lfs and saw that they have some loisellie in, which is unusual since they never had any parachromis so im getting 2 of them im only gonna keep one long term(which ever is a male). so im thinking of doing 1 losiellie, 1 grammodes, 1 texas, 1 sal, and 1 cutteri long term, if this doesnt work out long term ill remove the most agressive one or the one i like the least


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Good luck!!!!


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

thanks, at first i was just gonna go with 1 loisellie 1 texas, 1 sal and 1 cutteri, but after seeing alot of pics of grammodes on here im gonna get one of those too, since they look pretty good


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

hey everybody, i would like to know if this has any chance of working long term in a 125gal. 1 losiellie or mota(not sure which i like them both), 1 texas, 1 sal, and a pair of cutteri


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

hey everybody, im pretty sure that im gonna get 1 losiellei, 1 texas, 1 sal, and 1 cutteri, but im still thinking about trying a red devil, would 1 rd, 1 texas, 1 sal, 1 cutteri have a shot at working long term, also are rds more agressive than loisellei


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Dude go to the search option and read about these fish you are interested in. Search here and search the web.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

well i just spent about 2 hours or so reading about loisellei and red devils, now most of what i read says rds shouldnt be kept in any community tank, so does that mean that 1 rd, 1 texas 1 sal and 1 cutteri has no chance of working long term in a 125, im already set on getting the tex sal and cutteri i just cant decide between a losiellei or rd.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

dafishman2323 said:


> well i just spent about 2 hours or so reading about loisellei and red devils, now most of what i read says rds shouldnt be kept in any community tank.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

I'd skip on the RD, unless you plan on just keeping the RD. Even if it works for a while eventually you'll end up with just the RD or an RD and maybe a beat up Texas. Everything else is likely to get killed.


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## dafishman2323 (Mar 18, 2009)

ok then its set im gonna skip the rd and go with 1 losiellei 1 texas 1 sal and 1 cutteri or a con now how does this look long term and my lfs has a loisellei thats about 3 or four inches im pretty sure its male would it be better to get it or order smaller 1 to two inchers from jeff or ken. the texas and sal are about two inces(im getting them from a friend of mine their both male) and the cutteri i can get a my lfs and its male about four inches.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Personally I'd make the Texas the small one of the bunch. My experience with them is that they tend to become aggressive at smaller sizes compaired to a lot of other cichlids. I'd also try to keep the other fish close to the same size as the Losiellei, maybe a little bigger to offset any aggression from the Parachromis.


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