# Another sick Bolivian ram



## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

I suspect I might still have fish TB in my tank. I have never been able to cure fish from their illnesses once I see them, and just the fact that most of them show completely different symptoms makes it even more of a suspicion. I have read up on some websites about TB.

To give you an idea of what I am talking about. About a year ago I was losing a number of fish from my discus, gbr's, geophagus, etc that were all in the same tank to different illnesses. One of them had popeye, another got dropsy symptoms soon after, and some died just from not eating. I had tried absolutely every med I knew of that treats those symptoms, none of the fish ever recovered. Unfortunately I still had some fish left over from the tank, and I think they may have passed it on.

About 2 mths ago I had to put down 2 bolivian rams, both full grown. One of them developed a curved back in adulthood, but he still seemed healthy otherwise, I put him down because I read about TB and that was a symptom. The other started hiding in the back and stopped eating. He kept to the bottom of the tank, and started developing holes in his gills. I treated him with meds for gill flukes, but it didn't work. Then another one of my discus got ill, stopped eating entirely and got really thin. No signs of white feces or anything. So I treated the tank with a couple different types of anti parasite/worm meds (of course I removed one before dosing with another). But nothing worked, he died a few weeks later. Then another discus got sick, same thing, he stopped eating and got really skinny. I tried again with different parasite meds, and with metro. Again nothing worked. Now one of my other Bolivian rams is starting to develop the same symptoms as the one that got holes in his gills, hiding in the back and just resting on the bottom. He was still eating, but it is not normal behavior for him. And he seems to breath different, not really fast, but he kinda has his lips puckered. I honestly don't know what to do. Should I just kill all my fish off and completely sterilize the tank and start over from scratch? It has come to the point where I feel like doing so. This has been going on for about a year now and I am getting sick and tired of it.

Right now the stock list is 3 bolivian rams, 7 discus, 20 cardinal tetras, 4 BN plecos and 3 clown loaches all in a 90 gallon tank. Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, and nitrates 0. I have lot's of live plants in the tank which help consume nitrates. I do water changes every 4 days of 50%. For filtration I have an eheim 2250 canister and an eheim 2213 canister. Temp is kept at 84 (I was keeping it at 86 when discus were ill). They get a diet of NLS discus formula pellets, NLS optimum flakes, brine shrimp, blood worms, ocean nutrition frozen discus formula, and spirulina wafers. I usually give them 1-2 feedings of dried foods a day, plus s. wafers and one type of frozen food. Usually about 3 feedings a day.

So can anyone help me? I am feeling like giving up altogether on discus and these guys, I cannot handle losing any more fish from this tank. I have 18 other tanks at home and I have never had any problems with any of them like this. I just don't know what I can treat them with anymore, since nothing seems to work and I still don't know exactly what could be causing this. It has been going on for a year now and it sucks badly. Please if anyone knows any answers or suggestions, it would be very much appreciated. :-?


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## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

Does anyone know what could be wrong?  I have never been able to figure it out, I was hoping that someone else may have had some similar experiences or suggest some kind of treatment.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

From everything you've described it sounds like you take excellant care of your fish. I don't blame you for being frustrated and discouraged.

The symptoms you've described do sound like fish TB--or perhaps Neon Tetra disease--but we can't be sure of either. The problem with diagnosing and treating sick fish is that so many of the things they get sick with show the same or very similar symptoms. 
Unless I've missed something so far you've used meds that target parasites. I think it's worth a try treating the tank with an antibiotic. I'd go with something like Kanamycin, (Kanaplex) or a combination of Maracyn and Maracyn-two. Since we don't know exactly what sort of bacteria we could be dealing with we want meds that treat a wide range of bacteria.

Considering the expense of treating the entire tank, and the possible sensitivity of the loaches to medication you might try treating the one sick ram in isolation.

You had problems with this tank a year ago -- has there been any period of time between then and now where the tank has been healthy?

Robin


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## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

Thanks for your input.

There was about a 3 month period where everything seemed to be going well. Then I felt it was safe to buy more discus. I treated them in QT for 4 weeks before adding them to the tank. Then about a month after adding them my large wild caughts seemed to start going downhill.

It is very frusterating. I have spent more time and money on these fish and because of this many of my other fish have been lacking the time I have to give them attention.

Out of all websites I have been to about fish diseases, fish TB was the only one that sounded even close. The ram I had in QT seems to be hanging in there, but now another one is just sitting at the bottom not eating. I am wondering the temps are too high for the rams, so I removed the only healthy one and placed him in a tank with temps of 78 and sofar he is very active and fine. I just put down another discus last week, and I have another that is becoming skinny, so placed him in QT. I really honsetly am thinking of shutting this tank down, sterilizing it and everything in it, and trying with a brand new batch of discus. Problem is, is how do you move a 90 gallon to the bathtub to clean it out lol. I am not going to add anymore fish to this tank, and I might remove some fish slowly and put them in a QT tank and treat them, then move them into an entirely different tank.


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