# Not sure What I have....



## Mussin (Oct 30, 2008)

I have a 30 gl set-up with a pair of firemouths and an unknown cichlid... I have had all of them for about 4 weeks now and the unknown fish is really starting to flex his muscle. Both of the firemouths are bigger but he bullies them all over the tank. It looks like a Jack Dempsey but not sure, guy at pet store said he came with a bunch of red devils but is obviously not a red devil.




























Jeremy


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## Reiner (Jul 17, 2002)

IMO it's a Amphilophus festae aka Red Terror

with all the spangling on the fins I'd say it's a male and this species really needs a tank of at least 125gallons when they are grown. To bad you are not close or I'd buy it from you.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

IMO the first one looks like someone though they would get Red Texas cichlids by crossing a Red Terror with a carpintis, not realizing that you need a red DEVIL or preferably, a King Kong parrot fish.

the second ones are firemouths, but i dont think they are pure either being that the smaller one was blue spangling on the gill plate, which is not a typical trait of Firemouths.


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## Reiner (Jul 17, 2002)

it might be a hybrid but the Y shape of the first 2 vertical bars usually is a traid that only A. festae has.


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## Mussin (Oct 30, 2008)

Red Terror huh... Well whatever he is him and the bigger firemouth face off all day long. The firemouth gets bright red and flares his gills but the little guy dosent care he goes right after him..

I'll try to get a beter pic.

THANKS

Jeremy


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## Reiner (Jul 17, 2002)

how big is the fish in question?


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## Mussin (Oct 30, 2008)

Reiner said:


> how big is the fish in question?


The unknown is maybe 1.5-2" The bigger Firemouth is maybe 2.5-3".. My Wife calls the fish little ******* because he messes with the other fish. I guess even if he is small he is alpha fish of the tank.. He sticks to the caves and the bottom, only time he swims up is to eat. Also sometimes he freaks out, gets himself into the corner and goes like mad. He has also made a huge area where he moved all the gravel to make a bed for him self:-? If the firemouths get near there its "on". They are fun to watch, the firemouths are beautiful and seem pretty mello compared to the other dude.

Jeremy


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## Reiner (Jul 17, 2002)

mmHHH at 2" or less a A.festae should not show that much spangling yet so you might have a hybrid or some other species all together. If you can let it grow out a bit to about 3-4" it would be easier to identify but his aggression will probably grow with the size of the fish as well.


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## fishman76092 (Jan 10, 2005)

Hybrid-probably carpinte x XXXX
Certainly not exC. festae.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

thats exactly what i said... festae (red terror) carpintis hybrid. if it was red devil instead of red terror it wouldnt have bars like that.


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## Mussin (Oct 30, 2008)

Well I finally found out what I have. He is a Barred Midas chiclid... He is ALOT bigger now than in those photos. Maybe 4" and one **** of a digger. He still has 1 firemouth as a tank mate, he killed the bigger one. They are in a 29 gal now, I am looking for at least a 75 gal for him.

Jeremy


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

No he's not. A barred midas would NEVER show the spangling that show in that picture.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Definately not a barred midas, though we really need a better picture to clearly identify it.

From what I can tell, it looks like some kind of jack dempsey hybrid. If it is some kind of hybrid, it is often dificult to say for certain what it is a cross of, as a cross does not always really resemble both it's parents much.

It's not striped like a red terror nor does a red terror pocess a spot on it's flank that is sorounded with a blue ring.


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## Nathan43 (Jul 9, 2007)

There is definate red terror there, the spangling would probably be from a texas or low grade flowerhorn.


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## clgkag (Mar 22, 2008)

I have to agree that it most likely is a Flowerhorn.


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## Mussin (Oct 30, 2008)

So I guess I have a mutt :-? :-? :lol:


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## Mussin (Oct 30, 2008)

Got some better pics of him today. What do you guys think?

































THANKS

Jeremy


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

I still say festae/texas cross. I adore him/her...gorgeous little guy.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

From the new pics it is obvious your fish has Texas cichlid in it. Your fish is a hybrid. What the other parent is, is less obvious. Might be red terror though I certainly don't see it in your fish ---you may never know for certain what it is other then it has texas cichlid in it.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm terrible at fish ID, one reason I was reading this thread. I came across a pic that looks similar to this fish - except for the coloring. 3rd fish from the bottom... Body and fins look similar and it does sorta look like a regular JD in coloring and the stripes...

http://bluejax.co.uk/adultfish.aspx


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

No, it's absolutely not a JD.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Could you tell me why you say that? I am just learning this part of the hobby and right now all I have access to is looking at pics on the internet - not a good way to learn this without help. Many of the images of fish are mislabeled - even my limited knowledge of the subject can tell that.

I wasn't trying to say it was "pure" JD - but the stripes, the general shape of the fins and general shape of the fish strongly resemble my 1.5 year old JD. The biggest differences I see are the more feathered fins and the spots along this ones flanks.


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## Riceburner (Sep 3, 2008)

Funny, I was thinking it looked to have some JD too.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

It may have some JD in it, I should have clarified that I meant it wasn't a pure JD...it's a hybrid, so you'll never truly know what's actually in it. All we can do is speculate. I personally don't think it's got Jack in it though...the spangles don't look right, they look more like a Texas contribution, The body shape (head in particular) doesn't seem even a little JD to me, bars are found on almost all Central Americans and a number of South Americans as juveniles or when they're stressed...overall it just doesn't strike me as any Jack blood. Again, this is all speculation, as it's a hybrid...it "could be" almost anything.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Mussin said:


> So I guess I have a mutt :-? :-? :lol:


No you have a hybrid cichlid.
A mutt is a cross between two or more man created lines ("breeds") of the same species of canine.

Your fish is a fish! and a cross between different species of cichlid. :wink:


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Okay, just spent the last 30 minutes comparing a pic of my juvie and this guy. Starting to see what you are saying. The tail is a totally different shape and the head shape is wrong - it's more a gentle slope in this guy. Mouth and lips are different as well - am I starting to see the things I should be looking for now?

I hope you don't mind giving me a lesson in this... lol

This is the pic I was comparing with - I think it's a she - she is actually paler than the pic makes her.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Yes, things like that...they're often subtle differences that you only really learn to notice with experience. I've been keeping fish so long, there are differences in fish that are completely obvious to me that other people can't for their life see. I've on numerous occasions seen posts where people can't tell the difference between a M. lombardoi and P. demasoni (Lake Malawi Mbuna) for example...while I can't see how they look anything alike (lol except the obvious blue fish with bars).


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

SinisterKisses said:


> I've on numerous occasions seen posts where people can't tell the difference between a M. lombardoi and P. demasoni (Lake Malawi Mbuna) for example...while I can't see how they look anything alike (lol except the obvious blue fish with bars).


Ummm, that would be me! lol I've been keeping JD's for years now but was never really interested in other fishies. TY for your patience - I think it's high time I learned this stuff!


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## Mussin (Oct 30, 2008)

Some better pics of him. I wish I knew what he was, I hate calling him a hybred.


























Jeremy


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Why, it's what he is. You're never going to really know what he is, best you're ever going to do is guesses.


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## Thorin83 (Dec 23, 2008)

maybe just call it as you like


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