# Working out my sump on 220G build



## joeyo (Jul 2, 2012)

Hello!

Looking for some advise on my sump, overflow box and pump all of which are in my 220G, soon to be African cichlid tank. The url below shows the images I am describing, which hopefully will better explain my challenge. 
I have a self drilled 220 All Glass Tank. I'm using the Glass Holes 3000 overflow box which has two 2" bulkheads and two 3/4" returns. My pump is a Fluval Sea SP6 with a 1 1/4" output and return. I bumped those up to 1 1/2" all the way up to the 90 at the glass but had to reduce it down to 3/4" loc lines as that was the largest I could find.

My goal was to reduce friction, keep a high rate of flow and unfortunately, the returns and overflows seem weak overall. I also included the plumbing from the back side of the tank for additional insight to the design. Let me know if you have any idea as to what the problem might be.



I had a gasket leak so I had to also drain half the tank to address this. Hopefully, someone might also have some insight as to something I did incorrectly?

Thanks, Joe


----------



## joeyo (Jul 2, 2012)




----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Your links aren't working for me. Check the Posting Pics link in my signature for instructions.


----------



## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

I'm not familiar with that pump, but based on the outlet sizes I'm guessing it is ~1500 to 1800 gph. By seems weak, I'm not sure what your expectations are - I'm running two larger tanks with a sump, my returns are via 4 loc lines in each tank. I don't feel that there is as much current as when I used a pair of Eheim 2128 canisters in my other tanks, but the tanks stay very clean, and water conditions are consistent. Guess my point is that if you are expecting high flow, you may be disappointed, but sumps generally are not designed for high flow, but for medium flow through a large amount of media.

I'm no fluids engineer, but I seem to recall that making the returns a larger diameter may be counter productive to your goal of increasing flow. Something about relationship between diameter and pressure/flow, as diameter increases the other actually drops. You might do some searching around on the reef tank sites, as those guys have a great handle on advanced tank plumbing.


----------



## joeyo (Jul 2, 2012)

I've read that going up a quarter size from your pump was better for performance and the life of the pump, but the flow I'm seeing and hearing, indicates other. The PVC runs are not long or high, but there is a gurgling sound on one return that every so often spits out some bubbles. 
Full plumbing @ back of 220G







[/URL][/img]

Close up of the same


Inside waterflow of Glass holes 3000 (3000 gph overflow box)


Overflow pipes going into 48x15x15 Sump


Fluval SEA SP6 


Let me know if you have any insight to this. Thanks, Joe


----------



## daviddj (Sep 30, 2016)

Hi Joeyo,
A couple of thoughts;
Won't increasing pipe diameter on your returns increase the volume/weight of water that your pump is pushing against, effectively increasing the head acting against the pump?
I always though L bends etc close to the intake should be avoided as much as possible
I would say the air is been sucked in at the pump from vortices (vortexs ??) forming as the water is so shallow.

I could be wrong on all three  
D


----------



## CeeJay (Aug 16, 2016)

I see nothing wrong with what you have done.

I'm using a smaller pump on my 180 that has 4 returns and the water just barely flows. But yet the pump should be putting well over 1200 gallons an hour. Water is always clear and when you look at the sump the water is really moving. Don't get me wrong there's water movement at the returns there just not moving like a single return. I also agree that making your pluming simpler with less elbows will increase your flow but won't have a wow factor to water volume . What your head height?

So how do like Fluval Sea SP6? I almost went that way. I decided to go with a DC pump instead been happy with it.


----------



## joeyo (Jul 2, 2012)

I think I might have had an air pocket in my pump at the initial intake 90 and I never checked, but it makes sense. One of the contributors to this forum sent me a PM on it and I think that is the issue. Unfortunately I am traveling and will not be able to address the issue till this weekend.

As for the pump, I haven't had an opportunity to use it so cannot say to much, other than its very quite.


----------



## jsong (Sep 7, 2016)

I have a 240 and using two filtration methods.
1. Wet/Dry Eschopp WD 300 with PF1800 over flow using Mag Dyna 1800 GPH pump
2. Fluval FX6

I use this combo for two reasons. Wet/Dry does an excellent job with bio filtration and reduction of ammonia once bacteria is fully cultured within the Bio Media.
The FLuval Canister which is filled with Polyfil + ChemiPure Elite + Bio media provides pristine clear water and added mechanical filtration of smallest particles that Wet/Dry some times doesn't always filter out.

Also with this methods, you really do not need to bother with filter element for the Wet/Dry. Some minor food particles and waste that gets caught at the top and get stuck within the BIO is dissolved fairly quickly. The Canister I find picks up 80 - 90% of all fish solid waste. The Bio media in the wet/dry may need maintenance every 5 - 10 years.... maybe... It is not like a pond filtration system where it will be clogged in system like yours.

Also my tank is not drilled so I use PF1800 over flow box which can easily handle up to 2600 GPH pump if I chose to boost it up. Your tank being pre-drilled makes it for nicer installation of the overflow system. I would however opted for 1" return on both sides and bumped your pump to Dyna-Mag 2400 return pump vs. the Fluval. Your overflow box should easily handle that volume.

But I your set up is very nice.

EDIT: I would also add inline heater system to your return (with back flush check valve so if water pump stops there is water inside the heater chamber at all times.
The other side put in UV filter inline. I have it this way. Also for backup, I have a 250 watt heater inside the Sump. Total of 550 watt heating system when I do water changes the waster temp gets back to normal pretty fast.


----------



## Pdxmonkeyboy (Oct 17, 2016)

A couple things to remember in regards to flow, pressure, and headloss. 
1. the diameter of a pipe has no relation to how much reduction in flow due to headloss. you would think a 4" pipe would exert more force because the water "weighs more".. but it doesn't actually. Head (back pressure) is all about height. 
2. flow loss due to friction is all but neglible for aquariums. avoiding 90° elbows, etc is just extra work. If 3. when dealing with overflows, under full siphon a given diameter of pipe will flow WAY more water. I keep hearing 350 gph for 1" pipe. In a siphon however the water is accelrating for the entire length of your overflow pipe due to gravity. It is bernouli equation, and the gravitational constant. Sufficive to say a 1" pipe will flow well over 2,000gph given a length of overflow pipe 2 feet long. I'm just bored and throwing this out there as I see people drilling 2" holes in their aquariums for 1,200 gph pumps. A "beananimal" full siphon setup is a much more elegant solution.

3. any air introduced into the return is coming from the inlet and a low water level (that is the only place air would enter because it's a negative pressure).

4. anywho.. if your pump seems "weak" it could be a defective pump or suffers badly from head loss. if you want more current at the outlet, simply reduce the size of the outlet. I have 3/4 bulkheads in my tank but screwed in a 3/4 to 1/2 reducer. Since the flow is the same, the velocity doubled.. thereby creating very good current.


..


----------



## joeyo (Jul 2, 2012)

Quick update. I had a air pocket in a 90 I put on the pump's intake. It was the cause of not enough water flowing into the pump. On the bright side, I have massive flow, no friction and I couldn't be happier. The pump and overflow box can handle over 3000 gph, and its doing over 2000 gph for certain now. Very helpful feedback from everyone though, thank you!


----------



## joeyo (Jul 2, 2012)

Added Sand, pf course I did NOT rinse it...



Third layout of PVC as I had three leaks from using wrong type of PVC - it was for air/gas only. That was so much fun redoing three separate times and having to get frequent flyer miles @ Menard's!

Now its just water changes and cycling! The end is near!


----------



## CeeJay (Aug 16, 2016)

Very nice,

I haven't done build yet without some kind of leak. Last time just didn't get all the joints glue together.

What are you going to put in that big tank?


----------



## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

> to get frequent flyer miles @ Menard's!


Know the feeling well. I am the same way with Lowe's every time I do a build lol.

Tank looks good. Should have plenty of room for just about anything in there.


----------



## Pdxmonkeyboy (Oct 17, 2016)

looks nice and clean for sure (the plumbing not the sand )

going to be a sweet tank for sure!


----------

