# DIY Background From Start to Finish



## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Hey guys, so I'm going to use this thread to document my DIY background from start to finish. As I go along I'm going to add pictures on my progress. I'm guessing the whole journey will take at least a month or two to finish.

The first thing I want to do is ask some questions as this really is from start to finish and I'm at the very start not quite knowing how to get this thing going.

I've read all the articles in the library and I've thought about some ideas of how to make my own DIY background for my 120 gallon tank and I think I've got the basic design idea in my head and I'm going to start putting it on paper and then into works.

I've submitted a picture of my tank to my tanks list so you can see what it looks like exactly but you wont be able to see it until it gets approved a day or two from now. The problems I'm going to have to work around are mostly incorporating my hardware into my background. Right now I've got all of this that will somehow need to be incorporated into my background:

- 3 filters with intakes. Two for Rena's and one for a AC 70 I think it is. 
- 2 Submersible Heaters
- Then I have my two UGJ pumps 2/3 raised in my tank since I have a lot of bottom dwellers that prefer to have substrate space than surface space.

So first off, my UGJ pumps I'd like to have completely covered by my background. Now of course since I'm covering things up like this I'm going to want to have this wall *completely removable*.

Along with having the background removable I'm also wanting it to be built outside of the tank and then installed into an already running tank. I have the luxury of having an empty 50 gallon with the same back wall length just a little less height. I'm planning on using this tank to "bath" the finished background in until any chemical compounds or whatever else needs to come off the wall have done so from frequent water changes.

Then I plan on installing it into my tank. The background will be in 3 pieces by this time that will either interlock or suction cup into place. So here are my initial questions:

1.) How have some of you that have done DIY backgrounds incorporated your intakes and heaters into your wall? My returns aren't an issue as one is a water fall, one is a spray bar and one is a concentrated flexible jet.
2.) How much thickness does painting on the concrete add to the styrofoam?
3.) What kind of ideas do you guys have to have this background stay in place while being removable? I understand styrofoam is quite buoyant...
4.) Can I remove the elevated pH releases that the background will give off at first in a seperate tank and then remove the now ready background to my actual tank? It'd basically stew in my other tank until all the compounds came off. Would this work?
5.) Any other information you have that you would have done differently when you did your background would also be helpful.

This is probably the type of background I am most thinking of making and I'll likely contact the member who has it:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=172322 I like this tank's background wall.

It'd be nice to have a few of you that have experience in this follow this thread for the next month or two as I go along. I'd very much appreciate it. Let's hear what you guys think?! Thanks![/b]


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

> 1.) How have some of you that have done DIY backgrounds incorporated your intakes and heaters into your wall? My returns aren't an issue as one is a water fall, one is a spray bar and one is a concentrated flexible jet.


I have most of mine located in a sump. Most of the styro's I've seen have slotted channels in the background to acommadate them.



> 2.) How much thickness does painting on the concrete add to the styrofoam?


Thats entirely up to you. The thickness has more to do with application. A thicker mix will will add more depth and vice versa, a thin mix will hardly add any thickness at all. From what I've seen a thin layer is put on first and thicker layers are added over that. I personally think an average thickness of a 1/2" or better would make for a strong background.



> 3.) What kind of ideas do you guys have to have this background stay in place while being removable? I understand styrofoam is quite buoyant...


Other then silicone some have used rare earth magnets glued flush with the back of the background with a coresponding magnet place on the outside. They have also designed them to fit snugly underneath the rim of the tank and had some way of holding the bottom of it in place with stones or grids. Stainless steel clips have also been used to hold the top of the background to the rim of the tank.



> 4.) Can I remove the elevated pH releases that the background will give off at first in a seperate tank and then remove the now ready background to my actual tank? It'd basically stew in my other tank until all the compounds came off. Would this work?


Yes. In fact I would recommend it if you have inhabitants in the tank already.



> 5.) Any other information you have that you would have done differently when you did your background would also be helpful.


This is what I did to make a removable section to get to my ugj pumps.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks Iceblue some of that definitely helps. I think the magnets might be the best way to go to keep it in place but easily removable for when I have to move in a year.

I just went to the store and grabbed some styrofoam, a can of great stuff (is there a particular kind I should have? I went with the one for Big Gap Filling) and I also have some silicone.

I think Im gonna have the pipes for my intakes hidden up until the actual intake valve that will appear in the wall but I might camouflage it a bit.

Heaters I think I just gotta have out in the open or they wont really work well and Id have problems so I might have a piece of my wall have a place to suction cup those.

How do I go about using the great stuff? I'm going to make my three sections first out of styrofoam and then I thought I could use the great stuff to add some more natural textures and some features to the wall, does that sound like a good plan? Im sure I'll test the stuff out but stop me if Im doing something really wrong.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

iceblue, what kind of magnets are those? I searched on ebay to get some and Im not sure of what I need. Do they have to be covered in plastic? I think this solution would be best for me but I need info on how to get the.


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

I found this site on Ebay. http://search.ebay.com/rare-earth-magne ... Q20magnets

Rare earth magnets are some of the strongest stand alone magnets around. They usually have a nickel covering to protect them from chipping and corossion. Thier may be some cheaper ones out there but it would take a little bit of digging.

I just found this thread. I thought it would have been buried by now. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... ound+clips

Mishon did a great job.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks again. I'm going to have to check out that thread in a bit more detail. So these magnets are aquarium safe? Nickel is safe?


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Ok so I've got one of the three sections to my background constructed out of styrofoam. Right now the silicone is just curing. The two side pieces will take me a while to construct since they are going to hide my powerheads.

Iceblue, in the second picture you posted, is the stuff you've sprayed on the "Good Stuff"?

I think I'm going to build the entire background structure before I go and add on the realistic elements of it. I wont have it all siliconed together cause I want to make sure all of it gets painted properly and what not and if its together I'm going to have a hard time doing that.

Also, since my background is going to be removable, what kind of paint should I use to paint the styrofoam that will be going against the glass? I obviously won't be putting concrete on these sides cause it'd do a number on my glass, but I'd like it to still be painted a similar color since you'll see a bit of it from the sides and the entire back side I'm still going to want to paint.

Also, when I paint it, is there something I should paint on after to seal in the paint or what?

I wont get to this step for at least another couple weeks probably, but may as well be planning so that I dont miss something.


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

My background is actually made out of lightwieght concrete. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=

I posted pictures of the structure that hides my ugj pumps to give you some ideas how to keep parts of the background seperated and easily removed. I don't see any reason not to use the foam over eggcrate and as a mater of fact reefers have been doing it for years.

It may be easier to paint the outside of your tank to cover the areas your backgrounds are going against. Since you won't be able to see through them anyway this might be the best option.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Update:

So my family had been renting a house just recently. We only plan to be here about 18 months total and we're about 6 months in. Well, just the other day our landlord said he sold his other home and wants to come live in this one now and wants us out in 3 months.

Part of the contract is "No reptiles, no birds, no animals". He's aware of my 120 Gallon tank... hopefully he doesnt kick us out for it. If he does this project will probably be put on hold but for now I'm plugging away and am thinking of ordering some magnets.

I think I'm going to get 12 magnets so I have 4 per section. Hopefully this is enough. I don't plan on making the layer of concrete covering my styrofoam too too thick so hopefully 12 will hold the sucker down. I might make a bit of a ridge at the very bottom of the wall to pile sand over too to help hold it down.

Anyways so I hadn't had my question about the magnets answered. What kind of magnets are safe to be in the water? Its metal and metal + fish isnt a good combo. Are these ones safe?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/50-Neodymium-Magnets ... dZViewItem

What should I be looking for? This set has 50 pieces. I'd prob just put all 50 in so like 8 per section... Is this safe?


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## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

Well I don't know about what is safe or not (as far as the magnets are concerned) and I'm curiouse about the answer as well as for a place you can buy NEODYMIUM MAGNETS besides ebay you can get them HERE. I've ordered a couple from them just to play around with and I like the magnets they are prety strong and the company seems to be prety reliable you might even be able to call them and ask if they are safe to use, they might not be able to tell you if there safe for fish but they sould be able to tell you about how they fare in water. they have some that are coated in all plastic so mabye they might work better also there is a section on there that tells you that the sheer foce is 1/3 of the pull force so keep that in mind when/if you order you're magnets. they have a real good selection of them in all shapes and forms so brows there products section to see what you like or need.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

What do you mean they have 1/3 the pull force? 1/3 the normal force when covered in plastic? Also, they will be seperated by a 1/2" or maybe 3/4" piece of glass (I forget how thick it is... I think 1/2")

Will these be strong enough after that?


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Also, how much weight do you think it'd take to submerge a piece of styrofoam that is 3/4" X 2feet X 16"

Has anyone ever tested how much weight styrofoam needs to be submerged? Some of these magnets have a force of 100 lbs... Id thik I'd only need two or so to hold down a sheet of styrofoam like that with a force like that...

I still havent heard if neodymium magnets are safe to fish. Anyone know?


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

So no one really knows about the magnet question? I really wanna order some pretty soon since I think I'll be ready to silicone them into the back in a couple weeks and thats probably how long its going to take to ship. I'd really appreciate someone who knows letting me know but im also going to call that one place this week to ask them directly.

Another new question:

Does the concrete have a hard time sticking to the silicone at all? I'm going to try to make sure most of my "joints" on the front side of the wall are all sealed so debris cannot settle somewhere and never really be cleaned out. I'll be using some silicone to seal these small gaps and some "Good Stuff". Will the concrete stick to either?


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## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

Well as far as 1/3 the pull force, what that means is if they have a magnet that has 100 pounds of pull force it is 100 pounds to pull it straight off of a surface. now that same magnet of 100 lb of pull force will only hold about 33 lb (1/3) verticly/sheer force wich will be the way you will be useing them. now as far as the ones coated in plastic I belive the same equasion holds the sameI would just go off what they have it listed as. now as far as shipping they shipped mine supper fast I got them 2-3 days after I orderd them but I think you live out side the US so I have no idea how long it will take. I don't know about the distance between them from the glass but I do know the greater the distance the weaker the pull is, so you're best bet would be to find out how much wait is needed to counter the boyance and call them and tell them how thick the glass is and how much you will need to hold it down and they should be able to tell you how big of a magnet you need.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

So do you think I need plastic covered ones for the ones inside the tank? Anyone get any that arent plastic and have it in the tank?


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## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

Well I just had a thought about if magnets are good or bad in an aquarium.. alot of people have them, the magnet scrubers we use to clean the glass, and the strongest ones they have listed for plastic coated are 33lb of pull force so that only give you about 11 lb of force to hold down you're BG and thats not includeing the thickness of you're glass. I tell you what I'll call them tomorrow do you have any questions you would like me to ask while I'm talking to them any way?


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Not too many, I just want to know how they respond in water and if they are safe for fish specifically. Do they corrode at all? Could also ask if they have any deals on magnets right now other than the ones on their site.

You could also ask if there were plastic coated ones inside the tank and just regular ones outside the tank if the pull force would be increased and lastly maybe just ask about what the pull force would be like if the magnets were seperated by 1/2" of glass. I appreciate it a lot. Sounds like we can both benefit from the information. Cheers!


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Here's some pictures of the first section of my background. Right now it still needs a ton of work though. I basically have only completed the structure of the right side which will cover my pump. I've put in a couple caves that still need to have the "good stuff" applied and then I'll also be adding plenty more rock features once I get the other side complete and can see the big picture of how it looks and can plan to make it look as natural as possible.










This is a shot of the left hand side pump in the tank. I have it raised up since I have lots of fish that really like the substrate space such as my four plecostomuses. The right side one looks the same.










Here's a picture of my powerhead that I've taken out of the tank to build the background around it.
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Here is the structure to hide the powerhead on the right side. There are two caves in the design, one atop the powerhead and one below it. Like I said above this is still very rough, I realize it doesnt look that rock like and I'll work on that after I get the left side structure done. I still plan on spending a lot of time on this before I think about doing the concrete.










Here's a nice view of how it will look as if you were looking into the tank with the two caves showing.










Side picture of the structure, still looks WAAAY too box like but you can see how the structure is so far. I havent touched the actual backing of the background yet, this will also be done once the two structures are done.

Let me know what you guys think. If you guys have suggestion on how to make these two rather large protrusions look more natural I'd appreciate it. I think once I rough it all up with the "Good Stuff" it'll get a lot more rock like but for now this is my progress.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

MightyWarMonger, any word from the company that sells the magnets?


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## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

No sorry I've been so busy at work I havent had a chance to call them but I should be able to today and will get back with you later this evning on it.


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## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

Eb0la11 said:


> I just want to know how they respond in water and if they are safe for fish specifically. Do they corrode at all? Could also ask if they have any deals on magnets right now other than the ones on their site.


Ok I talked to what I belive is one of there sales reps and asked him a few questions, as far as them rusting he said as long as there was no damage to the nickle plating from damage than they should not rust. as far as any deals you need to sign up for there mailing list and get any deals or cupon/ discount codes that way. and as far as being safe for fish he didn't say yes or no but that he didn't belive that they would leach anything into the water.



Eb0la11 said:


> You could also ask if there were plastic coated ones inside the tank and just regular ones outside the tank if the pull force would be increased and lastly maybe just ask about what the pull force would be like if the magnets were seperated by 1/2" of glass. I appreciate it a lot. Sounds like we can both benefit from the information. Cheers!


Ok I tryed to get the information on these questions from him but he was hesitant about answering it because he thinks he knows what we need but he didnt want to give us the wrong info and we get the wrong product that didnt exactly fit our needs so he told me to email there engineer with these question & I assume we could ask him the same ones as above to just to double check the answers. Below is the email for them witch is the same as the one on there website. So I guess you will have to email him with you're questions I tried but I think if you send them an email you will get the answers you need I just recomend the questions have as much detail as to there intended use and any issues involved like boyance.

[email protected]


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Hey, so I emailed the guy and here is what he said:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for contacting us.

1.) Will the magnets corrode or break down at all?
Nickel-plated magnets will rust over time and should not be used in aquariums. Plastic-coated magnets are required for this.

2.) Can these magnets be siliconed in place without any kind of effects?
Yes, they can be coated in silicone with no ill effects.

3.) Would the plastic covered magnets be required to protect the fish? (I hope not and would prefer a more definite answer)
Yes, the plastic is polypropylene and will not contaminate the water.

4.) How can I determine how much pull force I will be getting out of the magnets if they are separated by a half inch thick sheet of glass?
We are currently working on charting this, but we have a lot of magnets left to test. We will be providing pull force charts for magnet-to-metal and magnet-to-magnet attraction. You can see what we have done here: http://www.kjmagnetics.com/pullforce.asp

5.) How can I sign up for any deals your company may have?
You can join our Mailing List. Our periodic newsletter that contains news, new products and Mailing List-only coupons and specials

If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Best Regards,
Kevin Stayer
K&J Magnetics, Inc.
www.kjmagnetics.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So it looks like I'll have to go with plastic covered ones... if I go with magnets... I'm still deciding what to do. It depends on the pull force of the magnets once they are covered in plastic and still seperated by the glass... I might devise a way to hold it down using suction cups and also the weight of the sand and lastly the piping for my undergravel jets might also be used as a bit of an anchor... I'm going to have to do some brainstorming.


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## MightyWarMonger (Mar 20, 2007)

yeah mabye you can use the large nickel plated ones on the outside and just use the plastic coated ones for the inside of the tank, I think that would be good cause they only go so big right now for the plastic coated ones. I guess you could special order some but if you use a larger nickel coated one on the outside you might not need such a large one on the inside because mabye the outside one will offset the smaller one on the inside just a thought. as far as suction cups they never seem to hold up to long over long periods so mehh I don't know about that. ha ha silicone would be easiest but I know you didn't want to uswe it.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

I am gonna go with suction cups for now. I bought some rubber ones. Not those piece of **** plastic ones. These are still not quite as heavy duty as I was hoping but I think they're gonna work. I bought about 18 of them. 6 per section of my background. I'll let you know how it works out. I tested a suction cup on the glass and it had quite a bit of grip to it, thats for sure, and they sit perfectly flat so there wont be a gap between the BG and the glass. Or much of one at least...

I'm hoping to finish up my backgrounds texturing within the next two weeks. I've gotten pretty far along. Probably to a point where I should post more pics. I'll do so when I have some free time. I really wish my tank was drilled at this point. The hang over filter intakes are making the top of the background have to protrude about 2 inches out to hide it completely. Not a big problem since I mostly just want substrate space, but still kinda weird. Hopefully this background looks natural. I might spend some time adding some lights and darks to help give it some contrast. Sure hope my fish like this thing. I've added some cool features to it that I think they'll like to play with. Just gotta keep em natural looking... More to come soon.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Worst case scenario I'll have to pull the background out and figure out a way to hold it down better. Maybe a combination of some magnets and some suction cups. We'll see. I'm also planning on adding a bit of a "lip" on the bottom of the wall that will have sand on it to weigh it down a bit more than way too. Might even inject a bit of concrete into the wall too to help. We'll see.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Quick question.

I couldnt find quickcrete quickwall at my home depot. What else can I use?


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## PhillyzCichlidz (Jun 19, 2008)

iceblue said:


> My background is actually made out of lightwieght concrete. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=
> 
> I posted pictures of the structure that hides my ugj pumps to give you some ideas how to keep parts of the background seperated and easily removed. I don't see any reason not to use the foam over eggcrate and as a mater of fact reefers have been doing it for years.
> 
> It may be easier to paint the outside of your tank to cover the areas your backgrounds are going against. Since you won't be able to see through them anyway this might be the best option.


Sorry guys i was reading this because i am interested in building one myself when it struck me why not instead of painting the outside of the tank just taper it on each end so that it looks natural and it will give you a little more room for your fish and no paint on your tank thanks for your postings by the way I almost spent a lot on a Polyurethane Background


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## DMWave45 (Jan 22, 2008)

Any update pictures? What concrete did you end up using? I think any will due they just vary in grain size and contents. I'm also mixing in acrylic fortifier to waterproof it. Just something to consider.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

I will definitely consider it. No I dont have updates. I should definitely take a picture soon. I've made a lot of progress but I usually only work on it during rainy days. I dont think I'll be ready for concrete until near the end of July simply cause I am going away a lot from now until then and also I'm just that far away from it.

I've got a ton done since my last pictures but I'm really taking my time to carve nice features into the styrofoam and visualize what I want. I've been putting a bit of a "grain" in the rock features. A lot of the protrusions are on an angle on one side similar to that of a fault line in a natural rock feature. There are other spots that still definitely look too box like but its getting better everytime I work on it. I'll try to have some pictures taken maybe this weekend. I'd say I'm about done 60% of the styrofoam carving at this point. My last picture I was done about 20%.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Oh yeah and my fish had babies so that has been taking up a lot of my "fish time" as well. Theres pictures in the Malawi Fish Part of the boards. Pretty cool!


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## fishwolfe (Mar 27, 2005)

if you have a canister filter you could build an inline heater like this,and keep it out of your tank.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... ine+heater


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

fishwolfe said:


> if you have a canister filter you could build an inline heater like this,and keep it out of your tank.
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... ine+heater


You (or whoever thought of this) are a genius.

I'm going to build my BG and plan to have my heaters in the tank as normal until I eventually get around to doing this inline heating system. Very smart, very clean and easy to do. My tank is gonna be amazing. Thanks for the idea. I now have my next DIY project in mind! (and I was thinking of maybe making a sump... geez)

This inline heater concept will stay on the back burner for a couple months but I'll definitely get 
'er done once the BG is in and I'm ready for my next project. Thanks!


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Here's an update on the background. As usual I'm taking my time with this. It's going to be quite intricate and large. I also am trying to make it look as realistic as possible. I've got the right side of the 3 pieces almost complete. I think I'm done with the styrofoam on it but I'm still going to add some more texture with great stuff anywhere where there are straight edges or gaps I want to fill. I'm also pretty far along on the left side but still got some more to do.










This picture is the right side that is mostly complete. I tried to have a bit of an angle grain in the rock in the corner of the tank. This picture doesnt show it but the next one shows how I did it. This works really well with the lower cave that still needs a bit of work but is definitely looking a it more realistic than before but I'm still going to do some great stuff work on it.










Here's an up close shot of some of the angle grain that I have made with the rock work. I think it looks pretty cool. This corner might catch a bit of debris but it looks like a natural build up of sheared rock.










Here's another shot of the right side of the BG. You can see where the intake filter will emerge from the rock work. I'll be working on hiding it a bit more. I cut the hole wrong so its not going to be as obvious but Its definitely going to be visible just because I dont want to take a risk that it doesnt filter as well as it should.










Here's a picture of the left side from a profile view. The stalactite will hang down from the powerhead covering. I'll be working on it some more to make it more realistic as well with the great stuff. Its just the skeleton of it. I'm still not completely sold on it but I'm going to work with it to see how I can do. I'll be using great stuff to minimize the straight edges that are still prevalent on the left side.










Here's how the left side looks as it would up against the back wall of the tank. Once again its not even close to done yet. The pieces that I've glued on havent been carved yet and there are still some straight edges I'll be working on with great stuff or more styrofoam.

So there's where I'm at right now. I'll def not be ready for concrete until the end of July like I've been mentioning. I want to make sure these caves I've made and powerhead coverings dont look fake as much as I possibly can. So I'm taking my time in doing so. I also am gone the 12-19th of this month so that'll delay it too.

What do you guys think at this point in my project?


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## DMWave45 (Jan 22, 2008)

It looks really awesome but just as a word of warning. When concrete is applied a lot of that great detail may go away unless you only put a very thin layer on. So try to exaggerate everything a little so it still shows up after concreting. But once again that looks like it will be a wonderful bg.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Yeah I've been thinking about that for sure. I'll have to try to stop the concrete from pooling. Maybe I will just do several real thin layers. Its not like I'm itching to get it in anyways. It's going to take me like 2-3 months total to finish the sucker... Whats another couple days for some nice concrete coating?


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Well its been about 3 weeks since my last update and I've gotten a little sick of my basement being dirty so I overhauled and got a fair bit done. I'm aiming to concrete this thing basically the next couple days I have off so I can spritz it properly the first couple days that its curing.

I've got most of the backgrounds structure done and I'm going to touch up all the flat spots with good stuff. I'll rough it up similar to how my BG already is and hopefully it'll start to look natural. Right now its not bad but its got a fair bit of flat spots still left untouched. I also gotta work on the left side of the powerhead covering a bit but that'll be mostly with good stuff. Let me know what you guys think and what you'd do from this point forward as I still have time to change things. I still may add more structure to a couple spots but we'll see. I know I kinda should so that I can have solstice in knowing I am doing things right but right now Im just almost wanting to get the project done so my basement isnt a disaster with styrofoam particles everywhere. Anyways, here are some pics:


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

So I just roughed up the whole piece yesterday with good stuff. It has a lot more detail now and I'll be putting finishing touches on the BG over the next week. I've got to do the following before I concrete:

-Make sure it is perfectly square and to size with my tank which it should be but I gotta make sure as now is the time to make sure its going to fit snug.

-Attach suction cups. I've got I think 18 total and they are rubber ones so they create a much tighter seal than those piece of shiz plastic ones. I might still buy more though.

-Create a lip at the bottom of the BG so that some sand can also help to weigh down the BG.

-Touch up any final detailing I'd like to see on the BG

-Concrete the sucker up!

So what hints or helpful tips do all of you that have done BGs before have for me when I go about concreting the sucker? I'd love to hear some thoughts on it. I also would like to hear some ideas on how to add some color throughout the piece. I dont want it to be one solid colour. Id like some "grain" in some of the rocks so some thoughts would be beneficial.


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## a_c_arnold (Mar 7, 2008)

I hope your hood is screwed on to your tank. There is no way in the world that I would trust suction cups to hold that background on. Silicone is the only way to go with styro backgrounds, unless you somehow embed rocks into it to counter its bouancy. Trust me, even after the concrete it will be no where near sinking. I just wanted to warn you before you end up with a floater.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up. Im worried about it too. Maybe I'll do some tests to see how much each suction cup can hold down. I think it'll stay down once Im done and if not I think what Im going to do is just melt away some of the styrofoam from the back of the background. I've kicked around the idea of melting away most of the styrofoam outside of a frame which will be "padding" to protect the glass. If I melted some of it away I'd fill it with concrete a bit more too and eventually it'll stay down.

The option of siliconing it into my tank does not exist. Period. Not on this tank anyways, maybe some of my others if I like it once Im done.

This is what'll be holding it down:

-Minimum 6 and max of 8 suction cups on each section (though I could get more if they seem to be "close" to working. If they are not even close then I'll scrap them and do something else)
-A lip at the bottom of the background that will have sand piled on it, weighing it down.
-Concrete itself (though not much help)

if all that fails I'll jimmy rig something... no worries.


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

Ever tried to sink a surfboard? I would scrap the whole idea of suction cups altogether. They will be under constant strain and eventually will fail. I don't even trust them to hold my equipment in place.

If you don't use the silicone I would go with removing the styro and filling it with a lightwieght concrete mix. For my background I used thin sheets of styro used to ship wood furniture and cabinets glued to the back of my structures to protect the sides of my tank.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

I dont use suction cups for much either and I made a point of getting ones that are rubber and not plastic which is a big problem. I have had some suction cups that work just great and others that are basically pieces of garbage. The ones that came with my cap 3600 powerheads are extremely hard to remove. I got ones similar to these. They can hold a lot and dont come off without using a knife or something to get under em.

I'm likely to give this method a go one way or another but I'll almost assuredly be melting away some of the styrofoam once I got my initial layers of concrete, then I'll fill it some more.

I'll keep you guys posted. The surfboard analogy is interesting haha.

I'll be concreting it probably in about 10 days as this weekend is jam packed. Not to mention Im still not 100% ready for it.


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## a_c_arnold (Mar 7, 2008)

You may ask around and see if anyone has used hardi backer. The backer board that is used as a subfloor for tile. It's a concrete based product and pretty heavy. You may could do some cement and styrofoam work on it to get a background look and then seal it with a drylok. It should stay sunk in your tank. There is another forum in the background section where a guy tried to mimic the back to nature modules. He used a thin piece of rock as a face and added depth by using a few carved down layers of styro behind the flat rock. A little cement to blend them all together and he used a hanger to hang them on the edge of the tank. With a little experimenting you could get the weight right so that the weight of the rock and bouancy of the styro didn't put to much strain on the glass while hanging there. Just some thoughts.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Ok so its been a good while since I've posted. I've attached the bottom lip that will help to anchor it once its covered in sand and I've got the first layer of cement on the BG that is outside of the tank. Here are some pics:









Full view of the BG









Left side of the BG showing the stalagmite and the powerhead cover.









Right side of the BG showing the other powerhead cover which helps to form a cave below it and above it. The cave above is relatively spacious inside but with smaller entrants points.









Here's one with the camera's flash on making it harder to see crevices but a decent shot.









Close up of one of the entrants points of the higher cave.









Another shot of the other entrance to the higher cave.









The lower cave is shown here.

Thoughts from anyone?


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## Rockydog (Oct 21, 2007)

Looking really good. You may have answered this already but what type of concrete are you using. When you start to add the pigment it will really step out.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

What do you mean "step out". I'm guessing you mean add depth to it and thickness.

I used a quickrete cement but Im going to get one that is a little smoother. I actually sifted quite a bit of the pebbles in it to smooth it but I still want it a bit smoother now that is has its texture.

The pigment will make it thicken even more you're saying?

I kinda hope so because I need it to be thicker. Right now it's relatively weak with only a thin layer.


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## Rockydog (Oct 21, 2007)

Yes, exactly, it will add lots of depth once you shade. I had trouble finding concrete that didn't have a lot of sand in it and thought I would eventually use a product designed as a finishing coat that's applied to block walls to give a finishing touch.

You can apply the pigment in two ways. One to mix with a concrete slurry that you can paint on and add concrete at the same time but the color will be toned down due to the color of the concrete or just mix with water and apply to the damp finished coat of concrete, maybe even a combination of both.

Build up your concrete layers before adding pigment because it's just wasted buried deep in the layers of concrete. You probably will only want to add color in the last 1/8 inch or you will use a lot of pigment.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks again Rockydog. I'm planning on adding at least another layer of standard concrete before I start with the tinted stuff. I figure the shipment I ordered wont arrive til near month end so hopefully before then I'll have the second coat on. It does take a while to concrete the whole thing. I think 1 coat took me like 5-6 hours. I'll probably next work on it when its raining, or soon snowing.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Just finishing up my second coat of concrete hopefully this weekend. Im done it on 2 of 3 sections. This is whats remaining for my project:

- 2nd coat of concrete on 3rd section
- Wait for natural pigment colors to arrive
- Apply 3rd and final coat with pigment colors
- Melt away some of the back of the styrofoam
- Fill in the melted away part with concrete to make it heavier
- Coat with some kind of hardener or clear coat that will also help smooth it (anyone have suggestions for a Canadian citizen for a product that does this?)
- Ensure edges of the sections are square and rest flush against each other
- Submerge for 2-4 weeks to remove hardness
- Put in my tank!


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## fishwolfe (Mar 27, 2005)

you forgot....
-take pictures
-post on cichlid-forum
-get rave reviews
:thumb:


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

The pictures would look the same as the last ones though, but ya that will be at the end of the list haha. :? It'll just have to wait a bit for another set of them.

I just got the pigment delivered today so I hopefully will have new pictures with the background nicely colored in a bit. It's going to be a chore to make this thing look natural and cool. I got these five colors from earth pigments:

Natural Black
Curry Yellow
Blackcurrant Red
Natural Umber (Brown)
Titanium White

I think I'm also one of the few people that have built their background completely outside of the tank while the tank contains fish. I have only come across one other aquarist thats doing it and he has mysteriously disappeared over the last two months.

Mine'll get done, I am just working slow as its only a hobby. Sure hope this thing looks nice...


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Ok, so I've been working on this a fair bit lately. Putting the finishing touches on it. What a long process its been. But I'll have a perfectly removeable hard, in-tank background for a 120 gallon aquarium once Im done. It's starting to look good. Just gotta work on a few more things to make it look a bit more natural, something that is extremely hard, but its coming along. I'll post pictures once the look if it is done.

I think it'll be in my tank sometime in December.

Its been hard to devote much time to it with school, part time work, playing sports 3-4 times a week etc... but dont worry its gonna get done. Id say Im like 85% complete.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Here we go. This is now where I'm at, which is pretty close to finished. I'm gonna put a bit more texturing colors on it to blend a bit more and then I think I'm gonna call it complete on the front. I'll then melt away some of the back with a torch and fill it with concrete to weight it down more. Its pretty heavy already, but I'm not positive it'll sink. My guess would be it will, but I'll be more certain once I make it a bit heavier. After that I will need to coat it with some kind of protective layer of clear coat. (Any one have any suggestions of a Canadian product that would do the trick for that?)

I'll also maybe soften some areas inside the top cave since I think fish might get scraped up in there just a bit if they are startled while inside. I'd probably just put some silicone in there so its softer, not very difficult.

Here are some pics. I anticipate soaking it sometime early December like around the 6-12th at some point and then I'll be putting it into my tank over Christmas break. I think it looks pretty sweet but if you disagree and want to offer suggestions I'm open to criticism as this is the time to make adjustments.









Shot of the entire background









Shot of the right side of the BG. This shows the upper and lower caves









Here's the left side of the BG showing my stalligmite. It looks a little bit cheezy but overall not too too bad.



























I like the rock that juts out at the bottom. I think my plecos will love digging in the sand below it and hiding and it'll be a good part of the BG to start stacking rocks if I want to as its well secured.

*Comments are welcome!*


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

So the red parts and the yellowish lighter parts are all going to be blended more. Right now they stand out too much obviously, so dont comment on that aspect.


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

I've tried this once and the warnings of others on the buoyancy are true. Once mine floated, I melted out the center and filled it with unused aquarium gravel and concrete. The finished piece weighed over 200 lbs and it still floated, even with only 20% of the foam left in that section. I redid the entire background and have a very nice garden decoration left. I have only come across your post now, and hope I am not too late to give you some help. Buy a can of acetone at Canadian Tire, take it outside, and pour the acetone on the back and let it dissolve most or all of the styrofoam if possible. To protect the glass of the aquarium, take clear or black aquarium silicone and coat all edges that contact glass with it to make a rubber bumper like edge. I don't know the specifics of your BG, but if you could take all the styrofoam out it would be best if you are planning on making it removable. I too had to make mine removeable, and failed my first attempt. My second shot at it I used extruded polystyrene, the house insulation, the pink boards at home depot. It is a lot more dense, strong, and way less messy. I like the realistic effects you have used on the BG, but concrete will take all small details away from you. Not to worry, though, the effect will not be totally lost and you will have "hints" at curves and such. It will look very much more realistic once submerged as well. If you could leave it hollow and put a strength coat of concrete on the inside without making it too heavy, I would do that. My second BG has almost NO styrofoam left in it as I melted and scored the styrofoam with a soldering gun craft tip to within 3mm of the back of the styrofoam. This served to help the concrete grab on to the foam as well. Mine still floated, though very slightly(only enough that a medium sized rock would hold it down) even after I reduced the foam volume by what I can only guess is 95%. Good luck, and let me know if this helps.


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

sorry, I don't know how to upload images, otherwise I would show you what I did.


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## fishwolfe (Mar 27, 2005)

try www.photobucket.com free and easy


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

This type of thing also depends on how thick of foam you started with. The thickest part of my background has probably 1.75 inches of thickness of foam and I would say the average is .75 inch thickness and I'd guess that 75% of it is only .75 inch thick. And of those thicker areas, they are pretty much all going to be melted away.

So your 5% of potentially 3 inch foam could be worth 20% of my .75 inch foam. Im not sure what your thickness is but Im pretty sure this dang thing is gonna sink/be held in place.

Im gonna probably fill up the bath tub upstairs and drop one of the sections in it to get an idea of where Im at but I've got a lot of things working together at holding these down including my 3 inch lip at the bottom of the background that will have sand from the substrate over top of it to help hold it down. That, suction cups (I have heard time and time again how useless they are and have first hand experience but these will provide a fair bit of donward force to help hold it in one spot) and also the melting away of the styrofoam on the back of it and filling with concrete will help as well.

Its gonna sink. I have no doubts.

Anyone have an opinion of the "look" of the BG?


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## LuciousLeftFoot (Jan 27, 2008)

:thumb: Looks great.....I bookmarked this thread for future reference a while back. I would most definitely get a little more blending into the colored areas and the algae should do the rest for you. Great job on your BG, I am still trying to figure out a way to do this without completely breaking my tank down. :lol:


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

do you think curing the cement in a cold garage will cause any problems.....?


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

I think it would cause problems. The instructions on the bags say to do it within a certain range of temperature and it is a room temperature type of range. Are you in a winter climate? Long Island gets pretty cold doesnt it? haha not sure, havent been there but I think it gets below freezing from time to time, no? If thats the case then I think it's too cold.

I'll definitely blend the colors more. Im so busy finishing my last semester of college that I havent had time. I really want this in my tank by Christmas and I'm gonna try for that but we'll see how it goes.

I put the middle section in the bath tub today and it floated like a surf board. I'll be working on that and the final coloration touches over the next two weeks before I submerge it for a few weeks to rid it of its hardness qualities.

Only other thing Im slightly puzzled about is a product that will coat the wall like a clear coat or something. I'd really like this so it doesn't slowly sand off of the wall as its particles. Anyone got ideas? I've asked a few times with no responses but help would be appreciated.


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

Eb0la11 said:


> I think it would cause problems. The instructions on the bags say to do it within a certain range of temperature and it is a room temperature type of range. Are you in a winter climate? Long Island gets pretty cold doesnt it? haha not sure, havent been there but I think it gets below freezing from time to time, no? If thats the case then I think it's too cold.


yeah, it gets below freezing quite often here in the winter.....what about in my basement, do you think that would work?

Robb


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

It looks very nice, the bathtub idea is good as well, let's you get a handle on it. the volume of foam I was dealing with was, about ... 3"x6" approximately. I was sure the thing would sink too. Hope you have better luck than I did, yours is looking fantastic.


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

Ebolla, you have a question for this BG under melting styrofoam question. I thought I'd post a suggestion that worked for me here under your main thread. You mentioned you were trying to fix the seams of the three pieces. what I did was to put the pieces together and give a generous coat of concrete over the seams in steps in the order that i would be placing them in. After about 1 hour I then slid the pieces apart and as the concrete was beginning to harden, got a perfect fitting seam. I had to do this in order since my BG is removable as your is. In other words, the left panel and rear left panel were slid together as they would if I was putting it in for use, concreted the seam and then waited to pull them apart. I hope I explained this well enough. Mine had an order that I insert them in, which is why I staged the seam concreting. I was able to do both side panel seams to their corresponding background sides, once that hardened I slid my middle section back and concreted those seams.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

Sorry, I got sick recently and havent had much energy to work on the project which sucks cause I wanted it to be going in the tank right about now and its not going to be.

I'm still trying to make the front of it perfect before I melt out the back. I think Im going to take your suggestion and pour concrete over the seems and then seperate it once its set a little bit but will still come apart without changing shape. Hopefully I get a nice seem like you've got.

Only problem is my styrofoam has somehow warped during the process and the backside is no longer perfectly flat. It wont be a problem once I get the back melted out but for this seem it could be a little bit. Perhaps I should do the melt first and then the seems second? Hmmm... Just thought that out out loud and I think thats what Im going to do haha. Now I just need a warmish day to melt away the back since I'll have to do it outside for ventilation and right now theres about 18 inches of snow outside... Tomorrow looks nice. I might try to get at it tomorrow.


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

I did the seams last, once everytihing was put into place in the tank so I could see how it actually fit, not how I designed it to fit. The way I angled the seams between the separate pieces let me slide the left and right background away from the side panels and the middle section was able to be pulled straight towards the front of the tank.


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

well, my one section that I melted away the back and poored concrete cracked a bit. I've lost motivation for the time being to fix it, so once that comes back I'll fix it and continue moving forward...


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## Eb0la11 (Feb 29, 2008)

I just broke this thing into small pieces today to throw away 

I think I may have used a small amount of silicone on it that is unsafe for aquariums, coupled with the fact that it was cracking from the removal of styrofoam and pouring of concrete made it something I just cant haul to my new house this weekend to fix.

Sad day, I spent a lot of time on it and it was quite nice and probably like 85% complete  Maybe someday I'll do it again but learn from my mistakes. Not sure though. My next project is starting a big salt water tank, so Im sure that'll take tons of my time that I use to work on projects.


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

NO!!!! I followed this thread so intently as I did the same thing and made a removable background. It's done but has yet to be set up. I'll make sure to post it when it is setup in case you want to try again. I'll only post when setup, I don't like posting an incomplete project, but I did take pictures along the way.


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