# Which seachem plant supplements do I need



## Jordankayla93 (Nov 7, 2014)

Okay I got a couple of medium sized amazon sword plants about 3 weeks ago. They're doing okay but are a little brown/yellow and aren't growing at all. I have fluorescent lights and led lights. I turn the flouresent lights on for about 6 hours a day sometimes a little longer if I forget to turn them off. I'm not currently using any supplements because I was told when I bought them I didn't need to but since they aren't looking all that healthy I decided I should. But, there are just so many products that idk what I need. Flourish, excel, iron, phosphate, etc.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

You need more light (as in: _hours of_ ...) - in my 55g the fluorescent lights come on at around 11:00 and shutoff around 23:00 ... 12 hours.

The lighting isn't anything special - old Perfecto hood, with a pair of (end to end) 24" light fixtures, running two (total) 18w Phillips 5K "Natural Light" bulbs.

The Amazon Sword I got around a month ago is doing very well ... new roots and leaves coming out. Pretty much the same deal for everything else that's in there.

The only thing that I've added to the tank that could be considered "fertilizer" was ten drops of phosphoric acid (35% to 45% strength)

That was done a week or two ago, as part of cycling the tank (fishless) to handle any possible "phosphate block" for the nitrifying bacteria (nitrite ---> nitrate)


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

BTW - make sure the crown of the plants are above the substrate.


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## Jordankayla93 (Nov 7, 2014)

I do keep my led lights on for about 15 hours I just really don't like the flouresent lights so I try to get away with keeping them on for less time and was hoping some supplents would help make up for it. I don't know what the crown is :/


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## Jordankayla93 (Nov 7, 2014)

I think I know what you mean by crown. I pulled then up some. While I was pulling them up I pulled off the brown leaves. They had holes and were brownish. But it was only the outside leaves. The inside leaves actually look very healthy and I even saw a sprout with some new leaves growing. I have 2 Chinese algea eaters that like to sit on them is it possible they are just killing the leaves? No one else really bothers them. I want to get rid of the stupid things because of that and because I heard horror stories about them killing other fish but I don't know what to do with them because my lfs doesn't take fish. Also, when I take off dead leaves do I just pull off the leaves or cut the stems off? I'm totally new to plants, I've never had them before.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Jordankayla93 said:


> I think I know what you mean by crown.


It's the part that the roots and stems/leaves (generally) grow from ... :wink:



Jordankayla93 said:


> I pulled then up some.


:thumb:

Most common error with plants - including terrestrial ones - is planting them too deep.



Jordankayla93 said:


> While I was pulling them up I pulled off the brown leaves. They had holes and were brownish. But it was only the outside leaves.


Good deal.



Jordankayla93 said:


> The inside leaves actually look very healthy and I even saw a sprout with some new leaves growing.


Excellent :thumb:



Jordankayla93 said:


> I have 2 Chinese algea eaters that like to sit on them is it possible they are just killing the leaves? No one else really bothers them.


Possible I suppose ... and I do understand that Amazon sword leaves are more tender than say, Java Fern ... as well as better tasting (not bitter)

But I have two CAE as well, and I've not noticed any damage to my Sword. My two CAE's regularly work over all the large or long-leafed plants to keep them clear of algae. When I introduced the CAE's to the tank several weeks ago, I had some Java fern that all of the leaf halves (nearest the tip) were entirely covered with brown/black algae ... solidly covered.

The CAE's cleaned 'em right up in the space of about a week or ten days.

But then I also feed my tank scavengers my own homebrew fish food ... so it's not like they have to dine on my plants to get a reasonable amount of nourishment.



Jordankayla93 said:


> I want to get rid of the stupid things because of that and because I heard horror stories about them killing other fish but I don't know what to do with them because my lfs doesn't take fish.


Observe them and keep an eye on 'em ...

Are they cleaning off the algae on all leaves of your Amazon Sword ?

Are only some leaves dying ?

If it's only the outer leaves dying, well, they are the _oldest_ ... and they don't last/live forever ... :wink:

Are they attacking fish and actually hanging on them ?

I think that behavior tends to occur when the CAE's are older/larger ... make sure they are well-fed and you might not see it for a long time ... if ever.

Mine are about 2 1/2 inches or so, so they are fairly small still.



Jordankayla93 said:


> Also, when I take off dead leaves do I just pull off the leaves or cut the stems off? I'm totally new to plants, I've never had them before.


[/quote]
I use a small hobby razor knife with a non-replaceable blade. Handle is plastic, made by Testor's (the model guys), blade is like an Exacto.

Probably set ya back $1.50 or so at your local hobby shop or Home Depot/Lowes. Works great for cutting up cubes of freeze-dried fish food (Tubifex worms, etc.) too.

Personally, I feel it is better to cut off the dead/dying stuff with a sharp razor knife ... less chance of damaging the healthy portions of the plant.

Doing that, along with trimming any roots that are not healthy and vibrant, will actually stimulate new growth.


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## Jordankayla93 (Nov 7, 2014)

Oh, I didn't know the leaves died after awhile so maybe that's all it is. They don't seem to be cleaning the leaves, just kinda eating them and the ones that were the worst with holes and stuff were the ones they seemed to be on most of the time. I haven't had any issues with them messing with my fish. I just got scared when I found out that they do that alot of the time. I feed them omega one veggie rounds twice a day. They're already pretty much full grown. I've had them for like a year and a half. I'll check that out about the knife. Do I do it in the water or pull the plant out of the tank to do it? Have far down do I cut the stem? Just where it meets the leaf?


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Jordankayla93 said:


> Oh, I didn't know the leaves died after awhile so maybe that's all it is. They don't seem to be cleaning the leaves, just kinda eating them and the ones that were the worst with holes and stuff were the ones they seemed to be on most of the time.


My CAE's don't stay in one spot for very long (eating) on the leaves while they are vacuuming ... they just kinda hoover off any algae and biofilm while moving along. Then off to the next one.



Jordankayla93 said:


> I haven't had any issues with them messing with my fish. I just got scared when I found out that they do that alot of the time. I feed them omega one veggie rounds twice a day.


Good deal ...



Jordankayla93 said:


> They're already pretty much full grown. I've had them for like a year and a half.


IC ... how big (long) are they ?



Jordankayla93 said:


> I'll check that out about the knife. Do I do it in the water or pull the plant out of the tank to do it?


I do mine out of the tank ... just easier.

I can usually get whatever I'm working on up through the hinged lid on the hood ... so it saves having to remove a light and remove the hood. Eventually, once they get big enough, I'll probably to pull the lights and hood to get them out.

If there is a lot to do and it's going to take a while (trimming/dividing for propagation, tying plants onto rocks or wood), I'll fill a bowl with tank water and sit them in that to keep them wet/moist.



Jordankayla93 said:


> Have far down do I cut the stem? Just where it meets the leaf?


For a single leaf per stem plant like an AZ, trim it where the stem meets the base/stalk of the plant.

IOW, trim off the leaf and it's stem (not necessary to trim off back to the stalk on plants that have multiple leaves per stem, unless the stem is damaged or unhealthy)


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I did not see this already in the post, but many swords are grown emmersed and will shed their leaves when grown immersed for the first time. Then supposedly the new aquatic leaves will regrow.

I've never had much luck with amazon swords: first the leaves fall off and then algae gets the new growth. Not a fan of CAE due to rumours that they can attack the fish when older, but I have no personal experience...I believed the rumours.

Maybe you are still in the leaf shedding period? You may not want to add supplements until the plants are growing and healthy. What are your test results for nitrate and phosphate?


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## Jordankayla93 (Nov 7, 2014)

*** never had a problem with algea in my tank. Maybe because I have 2 bristlenose plecos and the algea eaters. I also have a filter with a uv sterilizer in it, if that makes any difference. The Cae are about... Maybe 4 or 5 inches. I'll wait on adding supplements since most of the plants do look pretty good. I don't have a test kit, I ran out.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you are going to be serious about plants long term, testing the relationship between nitrate and phosphate is important. It's how you can tell if you need supplements. I found letting nitrates get to 10ppm or 15ppm and then adding 1ppm of phosphate worked well.


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## Jordankayla93 (Nov 7, 2014)

What test kit do you recommend? I've never used one that read phosphate.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I used API...it is sold separately. You need the nitrate test as well.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Here's a decent pic of my amazon sword (got a new phone  ) taken a couple of days ago, with the crown just above the gravel. New/healthy root growth visible.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Jordankayla93 said:


> ... The Cae are about... Maybe 4 or 5 inches.


About double the size of mine then.

I understand they can reach 12" or more in the wild.


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