# How to add new tropheus to an existing colony?



## jevans89 (Sep 18, 2005)

I am planning a major tank upgrade and unfortunately its taking longer than I hoped. I ordered a new 8 foot 200 gallon acrylic tank (96" x 2"' x 24") around Thanksgiving and it looks like it wont be complete until the 1st week of February. I currently have a colony of 20 tropheus moorii in a 55 gallon tank that are about 2 to 2.5 inches and are starting to do the "shimmy - shimmy" dance. I want to another 20 or so once the tank is up and fully ("fishlessly") cycled. I'm also going to add about 20 jumbo cyps and 6 gobies. I was planning on adding all the new inhabitants at the same time so none of them would have established territories and they would be on an equal footing.

Since my colony is rapidly approaching sexual maturity, should I try to get similarly sized tropheus or should I go smaller? How small is too small? I have my eyeball on a listing for some 1.5+" F1 that I hope will work.

For the cyps I wanted to go as big as I could get so they wouldn't start off being intimidated by the trophs. I plan on feeding NLS and will have a large sump for filtration.

What do you think?


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## Fredrik H. (Oct 25, 2002)

That sounds like a nice and interesting setup you are planning. I would defenitley go with small Tropheus since the sexually mature or almost sexualy mature most likeley would ignore none sexually mature Tropheus and then they will slowly grow into the original colony.

Large Cyps sounds like a good plan. Tropheus tend to bother them by their mere existance and behaviour. It usually has very little to do with the Trophs actually chasing, just that they have a very different behaviour that some times wont work on the limited space of an aquarium.


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## jevans89 (Sep 18, 2005)

Thanks for the info Fredrik. Do you think about 20 jumbo cyps and about 30-40 trophs will mix well in the long run?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

If adding all of the trophs to the new tank at the same time, then I'd be less concerned with getting them smaller, although smaller is fine.

I'd reconsider the cyps. I don't think I'd mix them with tropheus. Your tropheus females will occupy the water column and mix with your cyps once mature males stake out territories. I don't think it's a great mix, but just my opinion. I think you'll miss the natural cyps behavior because the trophs will be in their face and territory constantly. Don't be fooled by how the younger ones stay closer to the rocks. It won't always be that way. I'd go with more trophs instead, maybe 50 or so. The gobies should work just fine with them. If you're looking for more species, consider julis or calvus or both, but depends on how much breeding you want to see happening in this tank. The trophs and gobies alone would make a nice setup.


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## jevans89 (Sep 18, 2005)

The more and more I hear about tropheus and cyp interaction the less I think it will work out. When I first started planning the tank, I thought that it would be long enough for both to coexist without stepping on each others toes too much. It doesnt sound like cyps will be very happy in the long run. I guess I want to have my cake and eat it too


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## Fredrik H. (Oct 25, 2002)

Yes I think you are right. I agree with prov 356 in his suggestions.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Jumbo cyps and Tropheus is a mix that some folk manage in tanks smaller than yours but yep it is a hard trick to pull off well long term without backup tanks.
Yep I also would add very very small Tropheus only to an established group even when putting them all in a new tank together but only do that if nessarcery and with quarentined stock. It is always a risk. Can you not just breed your own group up to the numbers needed?
Which type of Tropheus moorii have you got and which type of Tropheus are you thinking of adding? Some mix better than others.

All the best James


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## jevans89 (Sep 18, 2005)

They are all golden kazumba and I am planning on keeping just a single variant (to avoid hybrids).


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## jevans89 (Sep 18, 2005)

I'm concerned about having too much aggression with only 20 trophs in an 8 foot tank. The tank will have four good sized pieces of texas holey rock with lots of holes to help define territories and provide sight breaks.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

You should be fine if you do it soon with additions or without them. In that size tank it is unlikely any will get too picked on even with just 20 but more would help I think as long as you add enough of them. Idealy more than you have already to spreed the residents agression. Sorry did not reolise you were going to keep just one type. :thumb:

I would still quarentine any new stock first and get them on the same food and treat the tank with Metro before and during mixing to be on the safe side.


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## Fredrik H. (Oct 25, 2002)

I understand that worry. I have had problems with 20 in two meters. Right now I have 50 in a two meter tank which is about 7 feet i think. If I were you Id get some 30 nice duboisi to fill it out (thats what I have and it works perfect). I still havent heard of any crossbreading with duboisi. They seem to be the type that differ the most from all the rest. I also think it would look great!

Then maybe if you stay with just that they will bring up natural fry in the tank which is the coolest experiance. This clip isn't mine but still..isnt that great 
http://www.cichlidtube.com/videos/17/tr ... ng-her-fry


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

To be honest you can have aggression problems with Tropheus whatever the size of the tank whatever the numbers (especially when adding or changing tanks as they have to sort out a new pecking order and territories). It is part of thier apeal. (I have had problems with 60 in a 7 foot 200g before now)
On average I would add in this case too but at least 20. :thumb:

Same here, had lots of crossing when mixing types but never dubs crossing with moorii.


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## jevans89 (Sep 18, 2005)

I've heard when mixing two variants that one tends to thrive and then the other group just kind of survives. I really want then all to be happy and breed (for the fun and not really for selling them). On the other hand, it would be cool to see several different groups of fish as well. What do you think - more golden kazumbas (at least 20) or another group of 20+ dubosi?

I want to do this right the first time because I haven't had much luck in the past adding new fish into a well established tank.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I think "just survives" is a little harsh.
When I mixed dubs with moorii the moorii breeding was supressed and the dubs out bred em. (still got lots of fry from both just about half as many moorii fry as I would have expected from that group). So if looking to breed lots I would stick to one species. In that tank I think both would breed and I think the mixing may be less troublesome as they save their main agression for their own type.

All the best James


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## tom_patriot (Feb 24, 2007)

In that big a tank - don't be too concerned with hybrids if the species are different enough colorwise and there are enough females of each type. I currently house Red Rainbow with Ikola in a 90 gallon 4 ft tank. Never a hint of cross breeding. The Ikola dominate the Red Rainbow in terms of breeding, but in your footprint - you should get both types to breed successfully.

Also, the aggression is only toward their own kind unless they are in the alpha's rockpile.


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## aussy612 (Jan 31, 2009)

Something i use with my Africans (I havent kept tropheus) is to introduce them with a divider. I have the new fish in his own section of the tank. It has worked perfectly, and heres why.
It allows the dominant male of the tank to realize that the new fish is not a threat. It lets the new fish see the interaction of the other fish and lets him figure out his own place, without getting hurt. He can get used to the food and water conditions in a safe area.
I have never lost a fish with this method, even very small fish that would have seen as food if just dropped in the tank. Try it, I think that i would work in your situation.


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## jevans89 (Sep 18, 2005)

I appreciate all the advice -- keep it coming!! I'm thinking more and more about adding another 10 moorii and then about 30 duboisi and finally either 6 gobies (to get a pair) or a larger group.


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