# Breeding Fronts in smaller tank?



## fishindaze (Oct 3, 2008)

Hi guys,
I currently have a 75 gallon mixed bag of Malawi/Tangs. The Tangs consist of a white calvus, Altolamprologus compressiceps, and two male Fronts (4.5 and 6 inches). Well I have decided I want to dive into breeding fronts. Thing is, before doing as much research on this as I should of I went and got a GREAT deal on a basically new 55 gallon, with nice stand and 48 inch dual tube light for $100. Couldnt afford a bigger tank right now anyways. Now I see everyone recommends at least 100 gallon for 4-6 fish. I already ordered 3 females that came in today (4inches). I don't have my filter yet so they will sit at the store until Wed. of next week. So I will have two males and 3 females in a 55. Too late to back out now, so I am going to try it and see what happens. I have had cichlids tanks for over 18 years so I am no beginner as far as raising fish, just breeding. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Brian


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## fishyslc (Sep 3, 2008)

Ok...so why are you not at least keeping the Fronts in the 75g and moving the other fish to the 55g?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

The filter will take more than a week to mature unless you kick start it with ammonia. Add filter bacteria from your running tank. You will prob still need to do partial water changes every day to keep the toxins down during the first week. Its still a bad plan I think.
Why not trade in some of your fish for the equipment you need to breed Fronts well?


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

let them settle into the tank for 1/2 a year. then remove the least social male to a side tank and give the homeboy his own clay pot on the far end.
why do the malawi get to keep the 75?


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## fishindaze (Oct 3, 2008)

They are pretty big ( Blue Dolphin 7 inches, etc) And there are more of them and large rocks. I figured with only 5 fish the 55 would be ok. I plan to get a 125-150 in the future for my fronts, I'm just hoping I will get some fry in the 55. Pretty sure I know which one will be the dominate male already. The smaller one is kind of a wuss. :wink:


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

fishindaze said:


> ...Too late to back out now, so I am going to try it and see what happens...


Sounds like you have the right attitude and know what you are getting into. You are pushing the limits (IMO). Best of luck.

Russ


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

Depending on how aggressive your 75 is you may also be able to remove any problem front to the 75 till you get a bigger tank. (either the aggressor or beat up front) . Aggression is going to be your problem i think. I would either go with way more caves than the number of fronts or just one cave (for alpha). If it were my tank i would go with a single cave. That might help cut down on some of it. Good luck.


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## fishindaze (Oct 3, 2008)

Thanks. That was actually my plan. Once a fish gets beat up (hopefully doesn't happen) I can move her/him back to the 75. The two males I have in the 75 now do great with the malawi's, as well as the calvus and compress, so adding them back shouldn't be a problem. In the 55 I plan to section off one (maybe both) end for a breeding area. I will do this with a pile of river rock. I will be using the clay pots idea for hideouts on the ends of the tank, as well as a couple pieces of slate. Figners crossed. My three girls are waiting for me at the store. I went to see them today. Just awaiting my filtration to come in.

Oh, one other thing. I know with breeding fronts you shouldn't really have any other types of Tangs in with them ( Moori, Trophs, etc), but I was thinking for cleaning around small areas of adding a couple of lelupis or julis to the tank, and a pleco or two. Any thoughts on that idea? Thanks


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

I think they might become front snacks LOL. Pleco might be ok but on a personal note my juvie africans (including my fronts) killed my lone pleco that had been in there for months. It was a six foot tank and the pleco was 2 inches when i got him and his 1 inch african buddies. With in about six months it exploded in size and easily quadrupled the largest hap i had in there (5 inch empress). It got to around 8 inches and was super fat. This "murder" of their tankmate occured once the africans reached breeding age. So be careful with tankmates when your breeding.


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## fishindaze (Oct 3, 2008)

How would a couple of danias work out? They are great at cleanig up small food particles. THey are also cheap so if they are snacks who cares lol


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## fishindaze (Oct 3, 2008)

How would a couple of danias work out? They are great at cleanig up small food particles. THey are also cheap so if they are snacks who cares lol


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## k19smith (Sep 6, 2005)

Since it's just a 55g I wouldn't put anything in there your gonna need all the room you can get. IMO


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

fishindaze said:


> Thanks. That was actually my plan. Once a fish gets beat up (hopefully doesn't happen) I can move her/him back to the 75. The two males I have in the 75 now do great with the malawi's, as well as the calvus and compress, so adding them back shouldn't be a problem. In the 55 I plan to section off one (maybe both) end for a breeding area. I will do this with a pile of river rock. I will be using the clay pots idea for hideouts on the ends of the tank, as well as a couple pieces of slate. Figners crossed. My three girls are waiting for me at the store. I went to see them today. Just awaiting my filtration to come in.
> 
> Oh, one other thing. I know with breeding fronts you shouldn't really have any other types of Tangs in with them ( Moori, Trophs, etc), but I was thinking for cleaning around small areas of adding a couple of lelupis or julis to the tank, and a pleco or two. Any thoughts on that idea? Thanks


Altolamps are very skillful egg thiefs :wink: I think the odds will be heavily stacked against your desired front breeding program with your tank mates & fooprint. Although, I hope you prove me wrong - best of luck mate :thumb:


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## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

I certainly would not try keeping frontosa in anything but a 6 foot tank. Breeding frontosa in even a smaller tank like a 55 is just wrong IMO. The male will constantly harass the females. And the 55 will only have a 12" width... Just way too small to even try...


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Charles said:


> ...is just wrong... Just way too small to even try...


Well put Charles.

Russ


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## fishindaze (Oct 3, 2008)

Just curious if you have tried in a smaller tank, or know someone who has? I know I am not folowing common/best practice, but this is what I have to work with a the moment. Worst case is that I have to move fish from tank to tank, or one gets beat up. Until I get a bigger tank I am going to have to work at it. Maybe it wont work out, hopefully it will. I will keep you posted on the progress. The fish will be added to the tank next week. Wish me luck! :thumb:


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

i used to breed burundi in a 48x20 80 gal. i had 2 males, and five females, of which two produced regular. they were in that set up for 2 years before i traded them. good luck.


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## cellgrel (Jan 13, 2004)

I've kept breeding frontosa in a 55 for many years - no debate, bigger would be better for the fish but then anything but those deep open waters is a compromise. I initally tried half a dozen small fish and as they grew and sorted out gender and compatibility issues, they were reduced to three (1 male, 2 females). This is a reasonable number of this size fish for a 55, IMO. No other fish. I use large rocks and build "caves" at each end and in the center (each has an entry and an exit so they are more navigable and have an escape route. When carrying, I divide the tank to allow the female(s) to brood in peace removing the fry about a week after she releases (I believe in imprinting and enjoy observing nature's way). The fish spawn like clockwork which leads to another requirement - I keep four tanks to raise the fry. And then there is the issue of finding homes for them all. In my area the local pet stores have suffered from the ingress of large chain stores which do not take fish from hobbyists... even if they have no fronts in their store. And one should keep in mind that these fish are not high volume commodities. I live in a big city and have been able to find interest in all that I have raised but it has not always been in my quadrant of the city.
[_i]Key factors:_
_- raise fish together to maturity (buy +/- 8 like young from various sources - consider if you get to plan B)
- low stress environment (no more than 3 adults in a 55)
- caves
- water quality (bottom filters w/ strong air flow (Wisa pump) but no strong currents, frequent water changes)
- salt (1 tablespoon/5 gallons)_[/i]
A 55 may not be preferrable to a larger tank but it can render both healthy fish and a fun hobby.

Best of luck.


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## fishindaze (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm in the process of looking for a 6ft tank now. Don't really have the money, but looking (used of course). For now they will go into the 55. I will have hiding spots in case the male gets mean. Using river rock, slate, and pvc. Worst case I have to move one or two back to the 75 for the time being until I can get another tank. Hopefully this short term plan works out for me. Would like to get at least some fry from the 55. :? Keep you all posted.


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