# Why does ammonia bounce back after water changes



## FishFishBoy (Feb 4, 2009)

Hi,

I have had an ammonia emergency after substrate change and so have done drastic water changes. I do not feed the fish, and i did a thorough search of the tank and could find no dead bodies. After several days of frequent water changes and no feeding, my ammonia levels always seem to bounce back to 2.0, and I never get less than 1.0 except right after adding the new water.

I am also using prime and some bacteria starter, even though I should have plenty of seed in my fliters already. I tested the prime in new water and got no false positive reading.

Why does ammonia bounce back without feeding or dead bodies? I would like to understand this, or better, have some idea of how long it will be before things go back to normal in my tank.

thanks for your insights!

FFB


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

How long has the tank been set up with the current fish load?

Until a tank is cycled you will continue to get ammonia readings--your fish are _producing_ the ammonia and while they will produce less if you don't feed them they will still produce it.

If for some reason your filters lost their beneficial bacteria then your tank is back to cycling--maybe just a mini-cycle if it didn't lose all of its bacteria.
Also if you recently added more fish then your bio-filter will not be able to handle/process the extra ammonia right away.

What do you think caused the ammonia emergency? A substrate change shouldn't have had much of an impact unless there was quite a bit of waste built up in the substrate. Did you completely remove all the old substrate and replace it? Were the filters off for any length of time? 
Are the filter(s) running efficiently? Any build up of waste on the media? Is there a good strong flow coming out of the filter returns?

How are your fish? How many fish and what size tank?

Robin

The water changes and Prime are good moves on your part. Adding salt, (sodium chloride) at the rate of 1-2 TEAspoons per ten gallons will help to detoxify nitrite which may spike after the ammonia finally drops


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## FishFishBoy (Feb 4, 2009)

I made a few mistakes. I completely changed my substrate after four months. I started with a used filter with plenty of gunk (which I cleaned gradually over the four months). In other words, I had a stable tank before I changed the substrate. In my observation, although it could have been a coincidence, I got the ammonia spike only after I disturbed my fluval 405 filter, lifting out the top 2 media baskets to get to the next basket and replace some peat with carbon. Also prior to the substrate change I added a fluval fx5 with all new mech and bio media (obviously this filter is immature and mostly mech at this point).

there is some gunky matter in my fluval 405 but I did not clean it out and will not do so because i do not want to disturb my filters. In about a month, when I can be sure the new fx5 is up, i will clean the 405.

this is in a 70g with 25 juvenile labs and demasoni. I was just wondering why with so many water changes, about 6 @ 50% the first day and now 2 @ 50% a day, why ammonia keeps getting produced so prolifically. I guess the fish just produce it no matter what.

FFB


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Rinsing the excess gunk off of filter media will NOT hurt your beneficial bacteria as long as you rinse it off in either a bucket of tank water or a bucket of dechlorinated water. Your beneficial bacteria needs oxygen in order to survive and it gets that 02 via water flowing through it. If water is not flowing through because of gunk build up--or some malfunction with the filter--(perhaps something didn't go back together correctly when you took it apart), then you could have a situation where your beneficial bacteria is dieing and this could cause the ammonia to spike. 
Check and make sure that there is a good strong flow coming out of your filters. You may have to drop the water level in the tank so that you can see the water coming out of the filter return.

What sort of test kit are you using? It could be a faulty kit. Are any of the fish darting around erratically? Breathing hard? Hanging at the top? Have red streaks anywhere on their bodies? All of these symptoms are signs of ammonia poisoning. If your fish are sitting in water with readings of 2.0 and 1.0 ammonia they should be showing some symptoms.

*ALSO:* if you've got _chloramines_ in your tap water and you use an ammonia binding declorinator such as Prime it's possible to get *FALSE* positives on ammonia with some test kits. Seachem makes one that will give you an accurate measurement of the toxic ammonia present in your tank.

Robin


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## FishFishBoy (Feb 4, 2009)

Thanks! Oops i think i hit the wrong button, here goes again.

I think your responses and my further questions will not only help me but help others to learn more (without having to actually go through the same things).

"Rinsing the excess gunk off of filter media will NOT hurt your beneficial bacteria as long as you rinse it off in either a bucket of tank water or a bucket of dechlorinated water."

I am afraid to disturb my media trays again. The filter is relatively clean, and has a very vigorous output. of course with my water changes i have ample time to observe that.

I am using an api test tube kit. I tested prime mixed with RO water and with my unfiltered tap water. both tests were not false positive. is there some reason i cannot trust the same result of my aquarium water (double filtered tap plus prime)? note also that I had normal ammonia readings before this crisis.

There were symptoms at the start of the crisis, including surface breathing and the ultimate symptom, death. Now things seem normal except for running to me due to hunger.

Are ammonia readings of 1.0 and 2.0 with max dosage of prime still likely to induce symptoms? Logic says no: the prime would bind the ammonia and it would still show up in tests but would be hopefully mostly all safe ammonia. That is logic: I have no actual knowledge or experience.

Also is it your opinion that substrate change alone would not cause an ammonia spike?


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## Gino Santangelo (Nov 26, 2008)

I've heard and seen that nitrobacter bacteria the kind that convert nitrites into nitrates will not live in water above a PH of 6.9 when there is amonia present. After the amonia cycle be prepared for the spike in nitrite too. A 5% solution of salt (1TBL per gal.) will prevent the uptake of nitrite by the fishes red blood cells. If you have another seasoned tank could you add some bacteria from it.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Just noticed you already have a thread going on this subject. Usually it's best to keep it to one subject, one thread, then everyone knows all the info and can better give you the help you need.

Hearing that you had fish die, and hover at the top--both symptoms of ammonia poisong I DON'T think you had a false ammonia reading.

On detoxifying nitrite: you really only need a very small amount of sodium chloride to prevent nitrite uptake. 1-2 teaspoons per ten gallons.

Yes moving the substrate could have caused an ammonia spike depending on how much waste had built up in the substrate but you wouldn't continue to have ammonia present after so many water changes.

Robin


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## FishFishBoy (Feb 4, 2009)

1. So i guess it is still a mystery about why i still have ammonia readings, since it has been a week now since the substrate change and beginning of the ammonia strike, and your post indicates that it is unlikely that substrate change alone would continue to evidence high ammonia levels.

2. Also I am still left with the question if the high ammonia levels-- with the presence of max dosage of Prime-- still represents immanent threat to the fish or if the Prime really does convert the ammonia to safe form which shows up on tests but is not dangerous and can still be cycled by bacteria, as described on the labelling.

thanks for your clarity!

FFB


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