# How much surface agitation is needed to O2 the water?



## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

How much do i need to be sure there is enough O2 in the water? I dont really care for the look of bubblers but every time I turn mine off and I check on them they see to be really opening their mouth and moving their gills to get more air. I dont know if its just me being paranoid or if they really are gasping.

My water is at 78 deg, I am running an Eheim 2075 Pro 3 with spray bar, a fluval 405 with spray bar. Both spray bars are making ripples in the surface of the water. Also I have a Maxi-jet 1200 and koralia 750gph PH if that matters and a Tom's Surface Skimmer attached to the Fluval.

Thanks and sorry for all these question, but just wanna make sure I dont wake up to a bunch of dead fish if I turn the bubbles off! :-?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

You have options... 1. buy a disolved O2 test if your LFS carries it, or order it online...

2. set your airstone and air pump on a timer with a check valve. Run it all night or something...

3. wait and see... frequently, the fish get sick before you suspect low O2, yet low O2 was the major stressor.

there are other options, but I think you are likely getting an idea. :thumb:


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

I would unplug it and then look at them like an hour or two later and thats when it looks like they were laboring while breathing. They are never up at the surface though so I guess that is a good sign. Got it off now and gonna watch them the remainder of the night and see what they look like then.


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## Harkinstein (Aug 23, 2009)

By constantly circulating the surface, and removing any film from it, the surface skimmer does a great job of keeping the water oxygenated. Don't see why you should have any problem with the combination that you have.

From most of what I have read, the bubbles only help at the surface, by agitating it. They don't actually dissolve oxygen much into the water.

I don't like the bubbles either, so I have my Koralia facing the surface, but I would hope that with the dual spray bars you are okay.


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

I think it's safe to lose the airstone, as long as you have good surface movement, and no nasty film, there should be plenty of O2 transfer.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Part of me says it's safe, but part of me defers to the observations of xxbenjamminxx. I also agree with Number6 that O2 deprivation can be the unknown killer of fish in some cases. It's just hard to test for this.

But anyway, it's not just about surface ripple. You have to get the water at the bottom of the tank to the surface often enough to do the gas exchange, take in O2, expel CO2. I'd be real interested in seeing a short full tank video that'd show the water movement, circulatkon, and this gasping that you're seeing.

And the bubblers do more than aggitate the surface, they also circulate. If turning them off is tuly causing a drop in O2, then I"d say it's more due to the drop in circulation when that happens, rather than reduced surface ripple. Particulary if two spray bars are going already.

If no video is possible, a pic maybe? Or just a description of the locations of the intakes of the canisters and the koralia and maxi-jet.


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## jkulysses (Apr 5, 2003)

I've never used an air bubbler or anything like that I always just kept a hob bio-wheel type filter on the tank because they work pretty good for breaking up the water surface plus I like the sound of the water splashing down off the bio wheels anyway.


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

K here is a quick sketch of my tank layout. The blue is the spray bars, the red is the powerheads, the grey is my rock pile, brown is some driftwood peices leaning up against the back, and the yellow is the filer intakes. I do have some plants that are swaying all around so I am assuming that there is water movement down there also. I will post some video of it later when I get more of a chance.


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

Here is a video of my tank if that helps at all. Just did a water change today so the fish arent really gasping at the moment but do seem to be breathing fast. Maybe Im just being paranoid and they usually breathe that fast?? Is there a set a number of breathes a fish would take in a minute to signify that they are starving for oxygen? Or any signs beside being at the surface all the time?

Just click on photo to go to video. Thanks again everyone and sorry for the quality, only vid cam i have is on my phone so its the best i can provide at the moment.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Only links to videos will work. Otherwise we just get a pic.

Looking at your sketch, I don't see any reason why your fish would be oxygen deprived. They sometimes breathe quickly when stressed.


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

Sorry about that, here is a link to the video.

http://s1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... EO0006.mp4


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Your circulation is great. No way you've got an oxygen depletion problem in that tank. I'd relax and enjoy it without the bubblers.


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

prov356 said:


> Your circulation is great. No way you've got an oxygen depletion problem in that tank. I'd relax and enjoy it without the bubblers.


Thanks alot! I am still relatively new at this and guess Im just being overly cautious (paranoid). I do the same thing with my dogs.  Better to be safe than sorry is the way I see it.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Better to be safe than sorry is the way I see it.


Agreed, and looks like you've given them a great environment. Enjoy them.


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## Ensorcelled (Mar 1, 2011)

Not to thread jack or anything but beautiful tank and fish! Are those rocks with holes or something else? I can't really make out what they are.


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

Ensorcelled said:


> Not to thread jack or anything but beautiful tank and fish! Are those rocks with holes or something else? I can't really make out what they are.


Thanks!! I have added some rock I found since the photo, but the ones in that video are them Cichlid Stones. They are ceramic rocks which are hollow and light, making it easy to remove for cleaning and doesn't take up hardly any water volume.

Although I did find some natural rocks that were like half and half I guess you could call them. They just looked so neat I had to grab them and clean em up for the tank.

Here is the new rocks with the Cichlid stones.


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