# New Tank Syndrome



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

Hi everyone- its been a while since I've had a tank so I'm a little rusty... always wanted to do African cichlids so I decided to give it a try! 
Anyway I have a 55gallon I started off with a seeded sponge filter from another tank and two Aquaclear 50 power filters. One of the filters are setup just the way it comes out of the box and the other I ditched the carbon for additional bio media.

I started the tank with a fishless cycle and the seeded sponge mentioned above. I got testable ammonia then nitrites then nitrates with a week... when the ammonia and nitrites were no longer testable I added a 1.5" yellow tail Acei. Levels held up so I thought I was out of the woods and made a mistake lol opcorn: opcorn: . I added 6 3-4" MBuna (3 Acei and 3 Labs). As soon as I did it, I got an ammonia spike then a nitrite spike. Nitrites went off the page. So naturally I went into panic mode and started the water changing. I have the ammonia at .25 and the nitrites at 1ppm (the last I checked). So apparently the bio filter wasn't ready for what I threw at it there.

Question is... what now? Keep changing water as needed and ride the wave?? How often can I do water changes without it disturbing the cycle?

Anyway thanks for any suggestions!


----------



## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

This is my take on the situation.

First mistake; way under filtered
Second mistake; fishlless cycle, no need for it if you started with bacteria from an existing tank.
Third mistake; panic
fourth mistake; because of panic.... you jumped into water changes, this really prolongs the cycle.

Recommendations;
Add a lot more filtration and step away from the tank and let it run its course. I would not change water for a couple months.

One question....how deep is the substrate in this tank?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

BlueSunshine said:


> no need for it if you started with bacteria from an existing tank.


Wouldn't the ammonia and nitrite spike indicate that there was not enough bacteria from the existing tank to provide an instant cycle? Don't you find the nitrites kill the fish if you let them get too high?


----------



## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

DJRansome said:


> BlueSunshine said:
> 
> 
> > no need for it if you started with bacteria from an existing tank.
> ...


You, as much as anyone else, should know there is no such thing as an instant cycle.
If the ammonia and or nitrites spike high enough to kill, I'd say the bacteria transfer was botched.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If I move a filter from an established tank to a new tank with an equal bioload, there is no cycle. Some Members refer to that as an instant cycle, even though nothing is cycling, LOL.

I see my fish start to be uncomfortable when nitrite is 0.5ppm so I would either remove the fish until the bacteria grow, or do water changes to keep nitrates and ammonia under 1ppm. I like the former approach.


----------



## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

DJRansome said:


> If I move a filter from an established tank to a new tank with an equal bioload, there is no cycle. Some Members refer to that as an instant cycle, even though nothing is cycling, LOL.
> 
> Over estimating your knowledge was a mistake on my part.. my apologies to you.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

BlueSunshine said:


> This is my take on the situation.
> 
> First mistake; way under filtered
> Second mistake; fishlless cycle, no need for it if you started with bacteria from an existing tank.
> ...


Under Filtered? I wouldn't have thought so... Both power filters are rated for the tank alone then you add the sponge which a lot of guys will use solo. If that's the case then I have an excuse to buy another filter LOL. Probably go with a canister. :dancing:

The reason for panic was a dark velvet purple colored off the chart nitrite test lol. The first 75% change didn't even get them back in range. This fish were noticeably uncomfortable. I agree it prolongs the cycle, but I didn't want to watch fish suffer and or die.

Substrate is 3" on average. I would consider it a shallow sand bed.


----------



## BuckeyeTez (May 10, 2016)

I would have put one of the new AC50's on the exhausting tank for a week or two to build up some BB and then transferred it and the sponge to the new tank. That is what I did when I upgraded my tank. The only thing I didn't do was add a large bio-load to the tank right away.

I would keep doing water changes daily until you get the numbers down or if you have the means to remove the fish until the BB has been built up. I'm not certain water changes will slow your cycle much, if at all but that's what I would do if you have no other options.

Ammonia/Nitrite poisoning is worse than an extra week or so of cycle IMO.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

BuckeyeTez said:


> I would have put one of the new AC50's on the exhausting tank for a week or two to build up some BB and then transferred it and the sponge to the new tank. That is what I did when I upgraded my tank. The only thing I didn't do was add a large bio-load to the tank right away.
> 
> I would keep doing water changes daily until you get the numbers down or if you have the means to remove the fish until the BB has been built up. I'm not certain water changes will slow your cycle much, if at all but that's what I would do if you have no other options.
> 
> Ammonia/Nitrite poisoning is worse than an extra week or so of cycle IMO.


That was my thought as well... I was thinking daily water changes if necessary, just wanted someone else to say it so I know I'm not crazy haha. I may just have to keep the gravel vac attached for a bit lol. :fish: :fish:


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would consider 2 Aqua Clear 50s to be a little under filtered for a 55G as well. That will give you 400 GPH or 7X hourly turnover.

I've had tanks that worked with 4X hourly turnover, but I prefer 8X or even 10X to keep the debris up in the water column and sweeping into the filter.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

So it sounds like I have an excuse to buy a canister LOL. :thumb: Although in the scheme of things... as long as the tank doesn't try to cycle again or let ammonia creep up or anything more filtration isn't necessary. What I'm wondering is.... what is to be done about nitrates on these over stocked tanks? Seems like all of the African tanks I see are stocked pretty heavy. Frequent water changes? Or am I missing something? I don't see many planted African tanks... and I haven't seen any planted heavy enough to have much impact on nitrates.

Anyway...A little update after todays testing... this morning I got .25 ammonia/ 1.0 nitrite. This evening I got .0 ammonia and .0 nitrite... 20ppm nitrate. Haven't touched the tank. So Its looking like the seeded sponge finally got the job done lol. Going to keep testing twice a day for a week or so here to make sure. If it holds up, ill start working towards my complete stock list.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

50% weekly changes with a properly stocked tank should keep you at 10ppm after a water change and 20ppm when it is time for a water change.


----------



## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

3" minimum is a good place to be, glad it is coming together for you, just takes time.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

DJRansome said:


> 50% weekly changes with a properly stocked tank should keep you at 10ppm after a water change and 20ppm when it is time for a water change.


With how much stock? I am planning on 12 Mbuna and one cat.. maybe a pleco.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

That should work. Depending on the mbuna I would go with 15 in a 48x12 tank.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

DJRansome said:


> That should work. Depending on the mbuna I would go with 15 in a 48x12 tank.


I would be really happy with 15 total. Going to be doing Labs and Acei... maybe a 3rd species that's the same size. (open to suggestions on that btw) I just want to be able to keep the nitrates around 20 with weekly water changes... and I like to feed lol. opcorn:

Over the last couple days one of the labs has reallllllly started to show himself. He's definitely gonna be the boss. One of the labs is getting singled out a bit, so I'm really hoping when I add more it will cool things off a bit or at least spread it out some. I decided last night that I would rearrange all of the pots to throw them off thinking it would help. I think it made it worse lol... just caused a BUNCH of fish fights. They were trying to decide who got what spot. Saw several times where they squared off, shimmied at each other and two even locked up for a second. Interesting to watch for sure, just don't want to see anyone hurt or stressed. I think they sorted it out some but there was still some chasing this morning.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd save the acei for a larger tank.

Overfeeding will cause more water changes than stocking 15 fish.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

Why save the Acei for a larger tank? They're 4-4.5" as adults?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Six inches plus.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

Gotcha, I had done a search on them and seen one site claiming 4"... I just looked again and found claims of 6-7". I already have two... so there is an excuse for a 75gal lol.


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Mbuna Newb said:


> Gotcha, I had done a search on them and seen one site claiming 4"... I just looked again and found claims of 6-7". I already have two... so there is an excuse for a 75gal lol.


The problem with some sites, is that they post the maximum size for the fish in the wild. Some fish grow much larger in the aquarium, and acei is one of them. 4" is wild size, I've seen 8" in an aquarium, though 6-7" is more normal.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

I'm already contemplating a 125.. or even 150 anyway lol.


----------



## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

Mbuna Newb said:


> I'm already contemplating a 125.. or even 150 anyway lol.


If you have room for it, go with the biggest you can fit. I started with 75's. Got a good deal on a really nice 150 setup with cabinets and canopy 10 months ago... now I'm already on the lookout for a 240. Africans are just awesome... and the bigger the tank the less problems. The REAL fun comes in when you start researching and adding plants... as the plants grow the scape of the tank changes and it allows so many more options... as well as some nitrate uptake. Have you looked into Peacocks yet? I think most of the Haps will get too large for a 55. I have a male and female Yellow Lab and a male Acei in my 150 attempt at "All Male"...


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

What is the best food for labs and acei? Preferably something that can be purchased local? (Walmart, Petco, petsmart, etc)


----------



## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

The Petco near me carries new life spectrum, Petsmart has omega one. I use the NLS for everything except my caudopuntus, they get omega one flakes. Both are good foods.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

I did some reading that Malawi fish need just the right balance with vege in their diets?

That's the second time someone has mentioned NLS... so that's probably the way ill go.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

By me even the "good" LFS do not always carry New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula 1mm sinking pellets. I order online.

When I run out of NLS I am going to try NorthFin...even harder to get.

I like to stay around 35% protein or less and pay close attention to the quality of the ingredients...not too many flours and fillers, lots of vegetables and high quality aquatic protein like krill (versus fish meal).


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-suppli ... rmula.html

Is this the best thing for them? I was also looking at hikari cichlid staple and some of the kensfish brand flake stuff. I don't care to have several foods on hand either. Anyone use any frozen foods? Krill? I used to have Oscars and would feed Krill... had to be careful though because the Oscars would get spoiled on it.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-suppli ... -88oz.html

Was looking at this as well


----------



## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

Yeah the first one is the correct NLS for general cichlid feeding. If you only feed that, you will be fine. Be careful about feeding them high protein foods as they have a tendency to get diseases when not on a veggie based diet.

I don't really understand people's fascination with trying to get fancy with their food especially around things that spoil. Having said that, I feed mine a mix of NLS cichlid formula (50%), omega one veggie pellets (40%), and NLS hex shield (10%). All of those are just pellet foods that I mix up and feed as one food.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

Thanks for the replies on this guys...

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-suppli ... flake.html
What about this one?


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Mbuna Newb said:


> Thanks for the replies on this guys...
> 
> http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-suppli ... flake.html
> What about this one?


I've fed that, and their basic cichlid flake for years, including to mbuna, and they are both quality foods.


----------



## Mbuna Newb (Sep 13, 2016)

Thanks again... I think I'm going to go with that flake from kens and NLS Cichlid.


----------

