# Frontosa cichlid in a community mbuna tank??



## Mr Cichlidman (Mar 6, 2010)

I was thinking about getting a juvie frontosa to put in my mbuna setup when it is finished cycling.Any other tank mates i can add??

Tank is a 65 gallon(122cm x 45cm x 46cm)

Thanks guys


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Frontosa don't always mix very well with mbuna. As juveniles they can be bullied, and not compete for food. As adults, they could eat the mbuna. In either case, it is my opinion that your tank is too small for an adult frontosa.


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## Mr Cichlidman (Mar 6, 2010)

Okay

What cichlids go well with yellow labs?
I am trying to get a peaceful community together. :-?


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## vfc (Feb 13, 2007)

I don't think there is such a thing as a peaceful African Cichlid community.

I had three tanks (150G and two 75Gs) of mixed Peacocks, Mbunas, Haps, and Frontosas. You know how they say watching an aquarium lowers your blood pressure? Well my cichlid tanks did the opposite. The constant (or potential) fighting was causing me grief.

I ended up taking a bunch of the African Cichlids back to the LFS, some died due to combat related injuries, and I moved the Frontosas in a separate tank with a peaceful Gold Severum. I now have one 75G that has no cichlids and is very relaxing to watch.

So what is your goal; create a relaxing tank to watch or trying to find non-combative mates that can evade your existing stock of semi-aggressive fish?


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## greggb (Feb 4, 2010)

Mr Cichlidman said:


> I was thinking about getting a juvie frontosa to put in my mbuna setup when it is finished cycling.Any other tank mates i can add??
> 
> Tank is a 65 gallon(122cm x 45cm x 46cm)
> 
> Thanks guys


Most of the people I've talked to told me that peacocks go well in a mbuna tank. I currently have 3 peacocks and 4 yellow labs in my 55 gallon tank (I'm not sure how I'll be completing my collection). From what I've read and heard your major concern is going to be how the mbuna treat anything else in the tank. As of now in my tank the sulphur head peacock is top dog and is looking at finding himself in a new home if he doesn't chill out, but he is the largest fish.

Most of what I've read/heard advises caution with the mixing of mbuna in a tank. If aggression wasn't a major problem, I'd think that hybridization would be at the very least. But I'm still learning the ropes myself.

If you don't already have fish you might consider asking for stocking advice here.


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## Mr Cichlidman (Mar 6, 2010)

Thanks for all the info guys

I dont have any tank mates yet but was planing on get a few yellow labs(1m-4f) ratio.Do you guys suggest any other tank mates for these cichlids??

Sorry not too clued up with scientific names


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## greggb (Feb 4, 2010)

Mr Cichlidman said:


> Thanks for all the info guys
> 
> I dont have any tank mates yet but was planing on get a few yellow labs(1m-4f) ratio.Do you guys suggest any other tank mates for these cichlids??
> 
> Sorry not too clued up with scientific names


What I've read/heard and observed myself is that labs are pretty docile as far as cichlids go. I'm not aware of other mbunas that would work well with them because of the risk of hybridization and the fact that they'd probably be more aggressive and as a result pick on the labs. Again, peacocks (which aren't mbuna but are from the same lake) are supposed to work well with labs. They're some of the more colorful cichlids and you can choose an assortment of species, getting a nice assortment of colors, without worrying about hybridization.

Peacocks are the aulonocara genus. Here's a good link to some profiles:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/r ... p?genus=17

With peacocks you'll generally find males for sale. Males are usually preferred to females because they have the bright colors, whereas the females are dull-colored. The upside to this is that you don't have to worry about hybridization or m/f ratios and things like that. I'm not sure what kinds of problems you might expect when you have multiple males from the same genus, which I'm pretty sure are considered conspecific, in the same tank. I'm sure someone else with more experience could comment on that.

But I'd suggest taking a serious look at peacocks. They are some really bright colored fish and you'll find a huge range of colors, and you can mix species. The tank parameters are the same as mbuna's as far as I know, though from what I understand peacocks are going to spend less time in the rocks and more in open water, which would mean that your tank will need to accomodate this.

All from a cichlid newbie, so don't take anything I've said for gospel. Hopefully more experienced members will throw some comments out for you.


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## Mr Cichlidman (Mar 6, 2010)

Thanks Greg for that info.I have heard that too from people.Do you think i should do an all male tank?will it ''be easier'' or harder to control aggression??I have lookd at peacocks for my tank though


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## natas01 (Mar 3, 2010)

I have a mixed 55 gallon (which includes Yellow Labs). I'm still learning as well, but I can tell you from experience that Frontosa's didn't work for me. They were bullied and didn't last long (tried a juvenile and an adult).

I've had luck mixing a lot of different Lake Malawi types, Peacocks, Pindani, Kenyi... with the Yellow Labs. Just offer a lot of hiding spots.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

It is generally not a good idea to mix mbuna and peacocks--mbuna usually end up bullying the peacocks. But labs are an exception to this because they are less aggressive than most mbuna.

You can mix your labs with other less-aggressive mbuna species like rusties and Cynotilapia afra. Your tank probably has the same footprint as a 55-gallon, so I would stock it with no more than three species, and in the ratio as you described. There are ways to reduce the risk of hybridization, but if you aren't interested in raising fry, one solution is keeping a fish that eats fry in the tank.

There are stocking suggestions for 55s here: 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_55g.php

and this was a similar thread with good stocking advice
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1456987#1456987

Have you ever considered Lake Tanganyika cichlids? They are super neat fish and tend to be less aggressive than mbuna. Rather than having a color-drenched tank of similar cichlids swimming around, you could have fish of different types and behaviors, like shell-dwelling cichlids, gobies, sand-sifters, etc. Some are pretty colorful, just not in the poster-paint way of Malawi cichlids.


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## afr..cichlids (Feb 16, 2010)

You can mix some mbunas with hap alis, labs, peacocks. But you must have a large enough tank, 100 gal or more with lots of rocks, plants for hiding. It can work out, but be careful of some mbunas, some are very aggressive like the mel auratus.


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## greggb (Feb 4, 2010)

Mr Cichlidman said:


> Thanks Greg for that info.I have heard that too from people.Do you think i should do an all male tank?will it ''be easier'' or harder to control aggression??I have lookd at peacocks for my tank though


There's an article at this site about all-male tanks:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/a ... malawi.php

I'm not sure what kind of aggression problems you can expect with an all-male tank. So far I've found my largest peacock to be a real jerk. He bullies all of the other fish around (including the labs), but doesn't appear to be harming them. Still, I don't want all of my fish hiding in caves because they're afraid of another fish.

So far now 3 or 4 experienced cichlid keepers have recommended a stocking of labs and peacocks for my 55 gallon tank. Most have also recommended overstocking to keep aggression down. I'm not big on the idea of overstocking myself.

I've also read a few articles where people have mixed labs with lake tanganyika cichlids. I'd never considered this to be an option because of the difference in tank parameters, but I think it would be possible to have parameters that would be suitable for both.

I'm getting ready to start a lake tang tank myself and have found that, from what I've read (and as someone else suggested), you have more options in combinations of fish because a lot of the species are less aggressive than mbuna. There are also a number of tangs on the smaller size (some down to 2") which would allow for more fish/greater variety (though with some, good-sized colonies are recommended). If you like that canary yellow color, there's a tang species:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1671
that according to pictures would be a great tang substitute for yellow labs. There's an oranage too:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1614

From what I'm reading you have the same concerns about hybridization with tangs that you do with labs, but you know, if you're not planning on redistributing your cychlids, there are ways of remedying that.

I've decided I'm no longer going to let a concern of hybridization determine my stocking options. I'm not going to be redistributing my fish, either.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Wow.

Okay here goes.

You want to start with Yellow Labs in the footprint of a standard 75.

- Yellow labs will go with pretty much anything you can fit in your tank.

- Haps over 8" do not fit in your your tank.

- Kenyi, M auratus, anything that is listed as Highly or extremely aggressive in the profiles section does not fit your tank. Weapons of mass destruction in a tank that small - give the cute little guys 6-8 months and come back and tell me how well it went :roll:.

- for your first tank I would strongly recommend NOT mixing lakes.

- Unless you are going to commit to having a re-homing tank available at all times do not even consider all Male to go with your labs.

Honestly, I believe the advice best you received was a stocking list of something like Yellow Labs, Rusties and Cynotilapia afra - (dwarf mbuna) - I would add 4-6 Synodontis Lucipinnis.

This would let you try an African tank to see how you like the behavior/aggression. It would give you a lot of color and action.

So if you got the following to start:

6 Juvie Labidochromis caeruleus
8 Juvie Iodotropheus sprengerae
8 Juvie Cynotilapia afra (Jalo Reef) (just to pick a hot one )
4-6 Synodontis Lucipinnis

_With your tank footprint you should be able to add another species if you like._

If/when your Iodotropheus sprengerae or Cynotilapia afra males start to war you return one of the males to the Local Fish Store. You want to end up with 1Male to 3-5 females for these species to spread aggression.

The Yellow labs are peaceful enough that this usually isn't an issue - hence the lower starting number.

Obviously this is just one example. But if you go with 3 mbuna species 1M:3-5F per species you are headed very much in the right direction. There are exceptions but we can cross that bridge when you pick the other two species .

Hope this helps.

Good Luck.

_Edit: As I can read to OPs tank footprint_ .


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

I'd suggest either GoofBoy's all mbuna suggestion, or add a trio of Protomelas "Red Emperess."

They mix well with yellow labs...and I've done it in a 75g before.


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