# all aulanacara



## B.Roberson

could you if you had no lookalikes? ie; males and females? reds,blues, mixed colored?


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## Deeda

Females tend to look similar to each other in coloration so you will likely experience crossbreeding as well as male aggression when they vie for females.


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## B.Roberson

So better to try all male then . Slb.76. In the aquarium section has a setup similar to what I want to try. A lot of aulacanara. 
Maybe I'll put a few mbuna and my clown loach in there also.


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## james1983

it can be done, but you'll run into the issue of finding fish that don't look similar after a while. their colors are pretty limited.


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## 13razorbackfan

What size tank?


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## B.Roberson

hi 13razorbackfan. its going to be a 90 gal, 4ft x 18 x 24,,,, or a 75 gal, standard just like i have, 4ft x 18 x 18. i have been authorized to get either. which do you think? i'veALWAYS heard go bigger, so i'm leaning on the 90...


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## B.Roberson

in fact im on ebay right now getting ready to click buy, just waiting for thoughts, thanx


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## B.Roberson

never mind,,, 90 it is lol  
do you still get excited when you get a NEW tank?? :drooling: :dancing:


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> never mind,,, 90 it is lol
> do you still get excited when you get a NEW tank?? :drooling: :dancing:


LOL...yep.


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## Floridagirl

A 90 will be a good size for Peacocks. you could add a few smaller Haps, as well.


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## B.Roberson

got a 90 off craiglist today  needs just a little cleaning, but good shape. No scratches, hoooray. It's got the oak trim, which I might paint black as my other tanks and stands are. The only bummer was no canopy. i'll buy a glass hinge off ebay and get the glass cut up the street at my lgs... [local glass shop] :roll: he's done work for me before with windows and also plexiglass for other projects. . gonna make my own stand, sooooo many ideas on this forum, thanx to those folks :dancing: i'm going to paint the back of tank black, and saw some awsome 3d backgrounds from 1 of the sponsers here, think i'm gonna try one. filtration i'm leaning toward an xp4, i currently have an xp3 i'm real happy with so i can also keep the same media and parts supplies to 1 type. also run an ac 110 on the back so i can stagger media cleaning. works great on my 75 that way.heat??
landsape unk???? fish?? i want to do haps and peacocks. I have some ideas in another thread. gonna be a project ,but will update if anyone cares. couple pics


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## Floridagirl

Awesome. Let the fun begin!


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## DanniGirl

Congrats on the tank!


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## B.Roberson

ordered my canister today, an xp. i do have a question about my bg. i want to do a 3d. im debating about doing the whole length or i might just do 3 ft of it. my tank has this glass center piece, instead of the plastic ones connected to the top frame. but the glass is probably 4-5" wide siliconed to the top. do i need to remove it to get my bg in?
do some of you cut the bg say down the middle and silicone it back together? just a few q's??


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## DJRansome

I do cut the BG...in 2 or three pieces as required and silicone back together. Leave the braces. Cut in the crevices and you will never know.


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## B.Roberson

started the stand today.. i'm by no means a carpenter but going ok so far. a few pics............. 90 gal going on here
maybe i shouldv put this build in the diy section. maybe someone could help me if other people want to see what im doing..









































































sorr pics not all great, all cell phone. let me know... o btw ordered my 3d backround today :dancing: let me find a pic.
i cant figure out how to get that pick off the web site, guess you'll have to wait till i get and take a picture lol


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## DJRansome

Since the whole weight of your tank will be on those front and back rails, I would not have it hanging on the 3 screws (looks like from the pic) attaching the rail to the legs.

A good design would have been to notch the leg so the rail would rest half on the wood and THEN be secured by the screws. Then you have the leg holding up the rail.

IDK if you can add a 2x4 to fit under the rail (like doubling the legs) at this point or not, but if you can I would. Or even a 1x4.


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## 13razorbackfan

DJRansome said:


> Since the whole weight of your tank will be on those front and back rails, I would not have it hanging on the 3 screws (looks like from the pic) attaching the rail to the legs.
> 
> A good design would have been to notch the leg so the rail would rest half on the wood and THEN be secured by the screws. Then you have the leg holding up the rail.
> 
> IDK if you can add a 2x4 to fit under the rail (like doubling the legs) at this point or not, but if you can I would. Or even a 1x4.


I agree....

You want to put a 1 X 4 or 2 X 4 between the bottom and top trim so that the top trim is resting directly on the 1 or 2 X 4 and not being held up by the screws.


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## B.Roberson

sorry, yes and you cant see it in the pics that i have but there IS a 2x2 in the middle of the front and back rail. and supported on each corner and middle front and back


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> sorry, yes and you cant see it in the pics that i have but there IS a 2x2 in the middle of the front and back rail. and supported on each corner and middle front and back


I made this crude image in paint so hopefully it helps. If you have something in there that I can't then that is good but I don't see anything in the pics above. Just want to make sure the stand doesn't fail.


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## DJRansome

It's not the number of legs you have...it's the fact that the rails are attached to the legs with screws so the weight is hanging on the screws. You want the legs to be actually under the rails so the rails are supported by the wood rather than the screws.


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## B.Roberson

i understand totally what you are saying , so i redid it. supprt on each corner and in the middle with 2x4. so basically i have an "l " shape of 2x4 one each corner between top and bottom rail and 1 2x4 in the middle front and back. its all good now ! thanx for both your input.. *** looked at my store bought stand for my 75 and i dont understand how it even holds the weight of my lights. its all balsa wood basically, well pine,. but just stapled together, and NO verticle support whatsoever. its just notched about a 1/4 " on a couple boards and the rest of top rail is just stapled to all the side boards. pretty cheap looking. i know my stand before i redone it would be stronger..


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## B.Roberson

so while waiting for paint to dry, and my bg to get here. So i can start assembling my tank i'm trying to come up with a list of fish that i've picked thru the profiles.
Can i put them here? IN order ? they are ALL male auloconara. .
and you experts,,can help me pick some,, i know that some will probably not work, i'm ok with that. i'm hoping for about 10. then i can keep a school of tetras[6ish] and my loaches in there also im hoping. 
thank you so much


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> so while waiting for paint to dry, and my bg to get here. So i can start assembling my tank i'm trying to come up with a list of fish that i've picked thru the profiles.
> Can i put them here? IN order ? they are ALL male auloconara. .
> and you experts,,can help me pick some,, i know that some will probably not work, i'm ok with that. i'm hoping for about 10. then i can keep a school of tetras[6ish] and my loaches in there also im hoping.
> thank you so much


Yeah BUT I would only list the ones you know you can get otherwise it would be pointless to list all and not be able to get some of them. What I did was found a good vendor and narrowed what I wanted down based on what I knew they had. Just a thought.


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## B.Roberson

yes I have 2 very good suppliers here in portland that have and usually stock what i want. they even list them on their website.


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> yes I have 2 very good suppliers here in portland that have and usually stock what i want. they even list them on their website.


Good deal. I would try and get most of them all at once if possible. How is the stand coming?


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## B.Roberson

Aulonocara "Albino
Aulonocara "German Red
Aulonocara (Rubescens)
Aulonocara baenschi
Aulonocara sp. "Chitande 
Aulonocara guentheri
Aulonocara sp. "Lwanda"
Aulonocara maylandi
: Aulonocara stuartgranti (Chiloelo)
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Chirwa Is.)
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Gome)
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Hongi Is.)
Aulonocara sp. "Stuartgranti Maleri" (Chidunga Rocks
Aulonocara sp. "Stuartgranti Maleri" (Nakantenga Is.
now granted all these are beautiful,,, and i know i wont be able to put them in all at once or evn get them at all, due to what i can get at a given time.from the suppliers. 
but iv'e been given permission with my taxes to get all of em :dancing:


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## B.Roberson

stand coming along good. btw thanx for your input and watching out for me. i beefed it up, and had a neighbor look at it for measure. he helped biuld the house im living in..








cleaned the tank real good today with vinegar water....








heater came








painting the intake tubes of my xp








and dont worry, that front rail you see, there is no weight on it. the tank doesnt sit that far forward, there is a rail behind supported . 
i had an idea for the front, but may have changed my mind but im not taking it apart.


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## B.Roberson

Any thoughts on any of these?

Will some or most mix?

Aulonocara "Albino
Aulonocara "German Red
Aulonocara (Rubescens)
Aulonocara baenschi
Aulonocara sp. "Chitande 
Aulonocara guentheri
Aulonocara sp. "Lwanda"
Aulonocara maylandi
: Aulonocara stuartgranti (Chiloelo)
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Chirwa Is.)
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Gome)
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Hongi Is.)
Aulonocara sp. "Stuartgranti Maleri" (Chidunga Rocks
Aulonocara sp. "Stuartgranti Maleri" (Nakantenga Is


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## DJRansome

You've got some look-alikes there and the maylandi may be too timid to color up in an all-male tank.


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## B.Roberson

OK, thanks.I will go back thru and look at them again. Jeez I just can't wait till my 3d background gets here so I can start putting this tank together. I'm getting antsy. I want to get it cycling.... I have EVERYTHING. . I am going to order another xp3. So I'll have 2 running on this 90 and no Hob. Everything else I have. That would be about 700gph. I think that's good.? Don't you?


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## B.Roberson

Baenschi Albino
German Red
German Red Albino
Baenschi Benga Peacock
Sp. Chitande Mozambique
Gertudae Multispot
SP. Stuartgranti Maleri Chidunga Rocks
Sp. Lwanda Red top Peacock
Sp. Stuartgranti Maleri Nakantenga Is.
Stuartgranti Chirwa Is.
Yellow Collar
Thats what im thinkin right now.


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> Baenschi Albino
> German Red
> German Red Albino
> Baenschi Benga Peacock
> Sp. Chitande Mozambique
> Gertudae Multispot
> SP. Stuartgranti Maleri Chidunga Rocks
> Sp. Lwanda Red top Peacock
> Sp. Stuartgranti Maleri Nakantenga Is.
> Stuartgranti Chirwa Is.
> Yellow Collar
> Thats what im thinkin right now.


Those two Albino's along with the Lwanda will probably be too aggressive towards some of those other fish. The two albino's may fight and the yellow peacocks likely will as well. I honestly think you are going to have a hard time trying to do all male peacock only tank(4' tank or smaller) simply because there are so many peacocks that look similar and it is all trial and error anyways. Are you totally against some haps to go with them?


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## B.Roberson

thanks 13razorbackfan. 
No. Im not opposed to doing some haps if you got some good ideas. I'll leave the table open and look at what you guys/gals suggest, and look at them in the profiles,.
My tank is still in progress so i have time to think about the inhabitants.i'm hoping i'll fill the tank with water next weekend,my bg gets here thurs,get it cut and fit and the filters and such setup, play with some deco ideas then put in place where its gonna stay. I know for sure im putting my clown loach,a group of bleeding heart tetras,prolly a couple bn plecos,in there,
the rest is up in the air. I appreciate ANY suggestions. :thumb:


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## B.Roberson

couple ideas
Peacocks:
Albino peacock
German Red
Baenschi New Yellow Regal
Stuartgranti Flametail
Stuartgranti Chidunga Rocks
Sp. Walteri
Haps:
Placidochromis Electra Deep Water
Protomelas Sp. Steveni {taiwan reef}
Protomelas Red Empress {super red empress}
any thoughts??? thank you


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> couple ideas
> Peacocks:
> Albino peacock
> German Red
> Baenschi New Yellow Regal
> Stuartgranti Flametail
> Stuartgranti Chidunga Rocks
> Sp. Walteri
> Haps:
> Placidochromis Electra Deep Water
> Protomelas Sp. Steveni {taiwan reef}
> Protomelas Red Empress {super red empress}
> any thoughts??? thank you


You would not want to keep to Protomelas species in a 4ft tank. They might get along but chances are not real good in a tank that size plus that empress will likely become quite aggressive and large in a tank that size. I would look more into the Azureus, Lithobates, etc....

The Walteri will also be super aggressive. I would probably skip him.


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## B.Roberson

thanks 13razorback. your help is truly appreciated.
so your fine with all the peacocks except the walteri?
so?

Peacocks:
Albino peacock
German Red
Baenschi New Yellow Regal
Stuartgranti Flametail
Stuartgranti Chidunga Rocks

and Haps howbout
Placidochromis electra
Copadichromis azureus
Lethrinops sp. "Mbawa"
Lethrinops sp. "Red Cap" (Itungi)
i'll just keep adjusting till you folks think its a good try. I know its all hit and miss anyway as far as all male go. thanx again


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## 13razorbackfan

I would skip the Lethrinops. I have never owned them but from what I hear they are pretty timid in all male tanks and tanks with more aggressive species.


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## B.Roberson

so this is all i got then? 
should i just try this? 
i want to add all at once if i can get em..
do you have any other suggestions. i was hoping for about 10. 
Peacocks:
Albino peacock
German Red
Baenschi New Yellow Regal
Stuartgranti Flametail
Stuartgranti Chidunga Rocks

and Haps howbout
Placidochromis electra
Copadichromis azureus


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## 13razorbackfan

Lithobates, white blaze chrysonotus, Borleyi mbenji(borderline as they can get about 8" but worth a try), Fryeri, etc...would be some I would try as well. The chrysonotus may have an issue with the Fryeri but I have them in the same tank and they ignore each other. I think 12 would be a good start. Maybe Danni can chime in with some that I am forgetting about.


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## 13razorbackfan

Intermedius is another......


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## B.Roberson

got my bg today. the pictures on the internet do it no justice. I LOVE IT! gonna be a busy weekend lol :drooling:


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## B.Roberson

a little update
































































.....
second canister coming monday. still playing with the setup, getting everything cut to fit and set up. rock config still a wip.
silicone is 24 hrs,a few spots just a little sticky, so waiting 24 more. 
all the equip is behing the bg. what do you think of the bg? im no pro, but trying to make it look decent. 
inline heater, even piped a maxi jet`1200 out of the bg. there is arm room behind it for maintenance. .
i cut 2 3" holes and 2 3/4" for circ.
im hoping to slide it all back and into place tmrw. my filters will be seeded from my canister on my 75 and some from my ac110 & ac70 on my 38.


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## Floridagirl

Tank is looking great.


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## B.Roberson

up and running

















































good flow out of my diy spraybar. 
the rocks i picked up go pretty good with the bg.
sand went ok,,, um,,, had a lot of bubbles in it,, *** been stirring a bunch to get them out. only thing i did different was add the sand first, then water. my other tank i had about 1/4 tank of water when i added sand, so it got all the bubbles out as it settled.. ill be careful,, dont want any gas pockets. but fish will be a bit


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## 13razorbackfan

Yes...the rocks match really well. Looks nice. What lights and K rating are you using?


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## B.Roberson

its just the original flourescent that came with my 75 setup. my led hasnt got here yet. but im diggin the setup. 
i am by no means a professional at this, the caulking could have been a little smoother, but there were so many angles to get that caulk gun into.
I painted the one end that i see black to hide the gap on the end .


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## B.Roberson

curious about these first water readings.
ph-7.5
kh-7
gh-7
nitrite-0
nitrate-0
ammonia-0,,,maybe 0 .25
temp 80
i put half of the ceramic rings from 1 tray of my xp3 on my 75,into the new filter,along with some new bio stars.
the donor xp has 2 layers of bio so no problem robbing some,plus my ac110 has bio [ceramic rings] also.
also 1 each of the sponges and put 1 each new back in the old. the xp has 2 each sponges,20 ppi & 30 ppi
1 of the fine filter pads of my ac110 in the new.
so i think the filter has a good kick start just wondering the readings?
thanks for any input. 
i havnt added any ammonia yet, was waiting for the sand and such to settle and was playing with intake /outakes and such.


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## B.Roberson

clearing up


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## B.Roberson

new led light came. looks really good : :  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... R177rA0zqg

stock is.
what i had available at that particular store. 
copadochromis azureus
auloconara stuartgranti "ngara"
protomelas sp."steveni taiwan tanzania"
auloconara maylandi "sulferhead"
haplochromis sp. "thickskin" obliquedens 
alocanonara baenschi "sunshine "
auloconara "ob"
haplochromis sp."fire"
auloconara sp. "maleri" "rubin red"

hoping to pick up an albino at a different store today. 
gonna try this stock for now. 
what do you think? any comments welcome,


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## Floridagirl

That tank is going to be simply stunning, when all is said and done. With an all male tank, I'd suggest a 29 gallon or so tank to quarantine new arrivals, and act as a hopital or time-out tank, when necessary.


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## B.Roberson

and speaking of that thanx floridagirl.
i have a 30 gal that im returning the last 3 occupants. 2 angels and a tiger loach. 
to keep it cycled without fish? how do you do it? 
obviously im keeping it heated and the filter running, but without fish does it stay cycled?


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## Floridagirl

To keep it cycled, you need to feed it ammonia, or throw a little fish food in, every time you feed yours. You could also keep a bristle nose pleco pair in it to help. They would get along with any other fish you might add, and you could get fry, as well.


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## Floridagirl

Don't throw in ammonia if there are fish in the tank. Just feed, and if you add other fish, increase the amount of food slowly as to not overload the bacteria.


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## B.Roberson

ahhh ok. thanx
couple plecos a good idea. the 1 i had in it went to the 90. '
now just where to put it. its been in the corner of my familyroom for a month while i built the 90.
hmmm bedroom???? what a brilliant idea!!!


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## Floridagirl

B.Roberson said:


> ahhh ok. thanx
> couple plecos a good idea. the 1 i had in it went to the 90. '
> now just where to put it. its been in the corner of my familyroom for a month while i built the 90.
> hmmm bedroom???? what a brilliant idea!!!


Just to specify...Bristle nose plecos. Others will get picked on by Malawi fish, and get too large.


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## B.Roberson

right. i have 2 in my 75, *** had the 1 in my comm for bout 6mo.


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## DanniGirl

The tank looks good. Excellent job on the background! 
Overall, the stocklist looks good. As I'm sure you're aware, the only fish that may not color up are the aulonocara maylandi "sulferhead" and "thickskin". But you never know until you try.

Did you manage to pick up a few fish today?


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## B.Roberson

couldnt get out. had 2 do a little shopping., and of course water change on the other tanks. 
so no fish today. i work in portland ,so might be able to stop aftr work tmrw. hey,,,,
still a little confused the the test results. 
been doing wc 25% a day. both canisters seeded with media from other filters, half of bio and some pads.
ph 7.5-8
gh 8
kh 13
ammon 0
temp 80
nitrite 0
nitrate.------still 0
had fish for 2 1/2 days.
no nitrate yet?? jus curious?


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## DanniGirl

Are you shaking the second bottle?


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## Fogelhund

Can't wait to see the finished tank, looks great so far.



Floridagirl said:


> To keep it cycled, you need to feed it ammonia, or throw a little fish food in, every time you feed yours.


The other thing I do is take a filter from a spare tank such as this, and move it to one of my main tanks. Then move the filter to the spare tank when needed.


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## B.Roberson

Yes. Vigorously. Checkd again last nite. Still 0. I had added Dr tims also. I've lost a couple fish.I'm sad.


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## DanniGirl

Sorry to hear about the fish. 
Keep up with daily water changes and use a dechlor such as Prime or Ammo Lock.


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## B.Roberson

any help here? thanks dannigirl and 13razorback.
so day 6 after adding dr tims AND fish. sorry to say *** lost 6!  :? 
i seeded the new filters heavy with bio and pads from ex filters that were up and running in cycled tanks.
heat has been 79-80 with my new hydor 300 inline heater  
watere is crystal clear.
i heard after adding dr tims to NOT do wc for at least 3 days or your removing the good bacteria you just put in. :-? 
i thought my filters alone {seeded} would take care of the water.!
well *** been wrong OBVIOUSLY. *** been doing daily water tests. from day 1, 0 ammonia ,0 nitrite , 0 nitrate. ph 8. kh 12-13 .
with fish after a week i thought i would see nitrate. but no.
after losing 6 fish, im pissed.. 
today fri, i just checked again. 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, 0 ammonia. my 2 fish are doing ok, 1 was stressed a day or so ago, it seemed but has calmed down. prolly killed it already or stunted its life. :x 
*** never seen the ammonia rise to say my tank even STARTED to cycle but i assumed that with no nitrite and seeded filters i was ok. wrong again 
aaaaarrrrrrrgggggg. sorry my french!!! *** read every cycling post on every fish forum out there and still they say i should have nitrate. but i dont. . please dont yell at me for trying with fish. i truly thought it would be ok with good bacteria going in. i am soo sad. and frustrated.


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## 13razorbackfan

How good is your oxygenation? If your O2 levels are low then it takes a lot longer for a tank to cycle especially using canister filters. I will give you an example I recently experienced in a 40g I set up. I ran the cycled filter on the tank for a bit over a couple months. The surface agitation was fairly minimal but I wasn't feeding the fish a lot and most were small so all was well. Here is where I messed up and it was a simple oversight and really forgetfulness on my part. I added 4 large fish from a display tank and the bioload more than tripled. This was a couple weeks or so ago.

Well....all was well except with the heavier load the filter was having a bit of a time keeping the water as clear as I like. So I added another filter, shortened the spray bar which created a ton more force of water coming out of it and pointed it towards the surface. The surface of the tank looks like white water rapids or a whirlpool tub. So I noticed later that day the water started to cloud a bit. The next day I didn't feed at all and could literally see the heterotrophic bacteria multiplying right before my eyes because the water looked like it was creating a gas/milky substance right in the water column. So I knew it was time to go ahead and clean the filter to remove the organics they were feeding off of. So I cleaned it last night and man oh man was it dirty. Today the water is a tad hazy but much better. I will continue to check my parameters every two days, keep feedings to a minimum and do water changes every couple days until both the hetero and autotrophic bacteria reaches equilibrium.

I hope that made sense.


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## B.Roberson

thanks 13razorbackfan. well to your point i think it very well oxygenated. the top of my water looks like a small rapid going down a river.
now no, i havnt took apart any filters yet but its only been running a week and a half. i have fed VERY lightly because what fish i did add didnt eat at all so i removed the food that i could so it wouldnt rot oin the bottom. some food was left that i couldnt get to but didnt want to do ant wc yet. didnt want to add prime or anything to upset the bacteria. the water WAS treated though before it was added. the fish i first put in were sluggish and hung out at the bottom, then would dart up and down the corners, thats when i was worried. tested water, everything ). then some passed away,,,,,,,,, frown. the 2 left, whew, seem to be doing alot better. actually swimming around, they were looking at me a minute ago like,,,,, feed me/. only concern is nitrate? where is it? should i do a partial wc? btw my test kit works perfect.liquid api, my nitrate on my 75 and 30 are about 20-30. time for a wc


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## B.Roberson

oh and i DO have a slight haze to the water> can i clean 1 filter? i dont want to disrupt any bacteria... maybe the first 1 i set up? its been running since the start. the other only 7 days now.


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## B.Roberson




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## 13razorbackfan

The haze is likely, but not limited to, a small heterotrophic bloom because your filters aren't likely seeded enough to consume the organics in the water column. As for Seachem prime or Safe neither will disrupt your bacteria's ability to consume ammonia, nitrite or other dissolved organics. If you nitrates are zero and you have very good oxygenation I would not clean your filter just yet. Can you remind me again without reading the whole thread what size tank and what filters you are running and how long the filters have been running with fish in the tank?


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


>


Yeah...you have good surface agitation. If you are still getting 0 nitrates then your tank isn't cycled if you have been feeding and haven't done a water change. I would go ahead and feed them like you normally would if your tank was cycled. I would turn off all filtration during this time. Wait one hour after you feed then turn everything back on. Wait 24hrs and test your parameters again and come back and give us the results.


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## B.Roberson

yes. thankn you. feb 24. tank up and running. brand new xp3 with a ton of media from my xp 3 on my 75 . 
added some tetras on feb 28th. they were ok till mar 2. i added my cichlids and took the tetras back out to my comm tank. 
oh. feb 30 i added a second xp3 seeded media from my ac110 on my 75 and my ac 70 from my 30.

ok . i wont do a wc yet. thats what i was a feared. not cycled. wow. ****. i mean dang!!. how? why? i added enough dr tims for a 90. 
oh yes 90 gal.....
also was adding a little food every now and then even when no fish in yet.


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> yes. thankn you. feb 24. tank up and running. brand new xp3 with a ton of media from my xp 3 on my 75 .
> added some tetras on feb 28th. they were ok till mar 2. i added my cichlids and took the tetras back out to my comm tank.
> oh. feb 30 i added a second xp3 seeded media from my ac110 on my 75 and my ac 70 from my 30.
> 
> ok . i wont do a wc yet. thats what i was a feared. not cycled. wow. darn. i mean dang!!. how? why? i added enough dr tims for a 90.
> oh yes 90 gal.....
> also was adding a little food every now and then even when no fish in yet.


Yeah....wouldn't have added the food without the fish to consume it or most of it anyways. I would do as I mentioned in my previous post and come back on tomorrow at this time with your readings.


----------



## B.Roberson

and hey 13razorbackfan,,, i hugely ,really, honestly , mostly appreciate your response , i am so sorry for my fish, it upsets me that it wasnt right to begin with. your insight and knowledge obviously from experience and trial and error is a benifit for us all. tooo bad i didnt heed the fishless cycle i should have done. i will have learned my lesson.

i surely didnt have this problem when i upgraded my 38 to my 75 that i have but something must have went right in that situation. i dont know. 
you read and read and think you got it, then something happens, and i feel i know nothing!!!! i am a newbie! thats all i am!!! my fish are smarter than me! 
they want out of this jacked up water *** subjected them to. crud!. 
I promise to any future fish that wish to reside in my tanks, THAT 1,, I will do wc. 2 monitor water quality. 3 feed you appropiate food. 
and give lots of fish love !!!

sorry if mushy


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> and hey 13razorbackfan,,, i hugely ,really, honestly , mostly appreciate your response , i am so sorry for my fish, it upsets me that it wasnt right to begin with. your insight and knowledge obviously from experience and trial and error is a benifit for us all. tooo bad i didnt heed the fishless cycle i should have done. i will have learned my lesson.
> 
> i surely didnt have this problem when i upgraded my 38 to my 75 that i have but something must have went right in that situation. i dont know.
> you read and read and think you got it, then something happens, and i feel i know nothing!!!! i am a newbie! thats all i am!!! my fish are smarter than me!
> they want out of this jacked up water I've subjected them to. crud!.
> I promise to any future fish that wish to reside in my tanks, THAT 1,, I will do wc. 2 monitor water quality. 3 feed you appropiate food.
> and give lots of fish love !!!
> 
> sorry if mushy


LOL...that is quite ok and you are welcome. Glad to help. We have all been there and even the most experienced hobbyists mess up from time to time as you can see in a post I made above. As long as you notice and correct that is the main thing and the most important thing to remember is that through mistakes and trial and error we learn the most. It is one thing to be told something. It is another to actually experience it first hand. You will be much more prepared going forward.


----------



## B.Roberson

also,, i shouldnt add any more fish yet????? i do want my filters to catch up to the bacteria stuff right. so i need enough fish to keep it going? i only have the 2! well plus a small pleco.
dont i need a few more fish to build the bacteria? i dont know;.k/m.,/./.?M.,?NM.,


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> also,, i shouldnt add any more fish yet????? i do want my filters to catch up to the bacteria stuff right. so i need enough fish to keep it going? i only have the 2! well plus a small pleco.
> dont i need a few more fish to build the bacteria? i dont know;.k/m.,/./.?M.,?NM.,


Don't add any more fish. Just feed the ones you have now and wait 24hrs to test. Then come back with the readings. Now....you can remove all three fish and just add pure ammonia. If you have another tank that is what I would do. It will cycle MUCH faster that way.


----------



## B.Roberson

would the 2 fish i have be ok in my mbuna tank for a week or so while i do that? i could add ammonia in the mean time>


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> would the 2 fish i have be ok in my mbuna tank for a week or so while i do that? i could add ammonia in the mean time>


What 2 fish are they and what size? 
What kind of Mbuna, how many and what size are they? 
What size tank are they going into?

I am not sure what they answers will be to any of the above questions so I will go ahead and ask just in case I wouldn't recommend it but do you have like a small 10 or 20g with a little filter? You could move them to a small tank even if it isn't cycled and do 50% water changes every two or three days and feed them every couple days while your main tank cycles.


----------



## DanniGirl

Echoing what Razorback said....

At this point, it would be hard not to add the fish in a cycled tank. If you do not have a spare tank running, is there any way you could place a divider in your main tank?


----------



## B.Roberson

no. but thanks. there are 20 mbuna. 
the 2 fish i got left seem to be doing alot better. i dont have a tank to put them in. my comm still has a couple angels and 2 tiger loaches in it and the ph is a solid 7.
so i dont know if i can move them to there? i also heard its not good to put them in a lower ph. from 8 to a tank thats 7. 
with my tank, should i do some pwc to help the cycle? i know i should start seeing some nitrate, but will i see ammonia first? then nitrite? 
i havnt tested yet today, razor said to wait till later today.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> no. but thanks. there are 20 mbuna.
> the 2 fish i got left seem to be doing alot better. i dont have a tank to put them in. my comm still has a couple angels and 2 tiger loaches in it and the ph is a solid 7.
> so i dont know if i can move them to there? i also heard its not good to put them in a lower ph. from 8 to a tank thats 7.
> with my tank, should i do some pwc to help the cycle? i know i should start seeing some nitrate, but will i see ammonia first? then nitrite?
> i havnt tested yet today, razor said to wait till later today.


If your tank isn't cycled you would likely see both. Did you feed them last night? I would feed them again tonight, wait a hour or two then test. If nothing then repeat the next day and so on until you get some readings one way or another. Then you will know how to proceed.


----------



## B.Roberson

yes i fed them last nite. and will today and retest tonite. hey, should i do any wc ????
thanxx
gh-9 kh -11, ph 8


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> yes i fed them last nite. and will today and retest tonite. hey, should i do any wc ????
> thanxx
> gh-9 kh -11, ph 8


Not the water hardness readings but we need the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings.


----------



## B.Roberson

yes, i did all 3 this morning. all still 0. i just dont understand no ammonia ir nitrite yet, confusing. especially after adding dr tims.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> yes, i did all 3 this morning. all still 0. i just dont understand no ammonia ir nitrite yet, confusing. especially after adding dr tims.


You don't understand the nitrogen cycle or why Dr. Tim's isn't working?


----------



## B.Roberson

yeah i guess both. *** read and read the nitrogen cycle over and over. doesnt even seem like its started. idk.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> yeah i guess both. I've read and read the nitrogen cycle over and over. doesnt even seem like its started. idk.


Well....unless you can move the fish the only thing you can do is take it one step at a time meaning go ahead and feed the fish and test a couple hours or so later. You are testing not for readings from food you fed today but the days before. So it may be a few days before you get any readings but you need to start testing today. Since you have fish you want to keep your ammonia and especially the nitrites to a minimum and you would do this through water changes.


----------



## B.Roberson

ok. got it. since i have no ammonia or nitrite yet, when i do see them i want to start the wc? right? *** been testing everyday since day 1, sometimes twice. morning & night to see if anything is happening. 
when i added dr tims i was to the impression i would see a little of ammonia AND nitrite for just a bit, since i added fish also at the same time. i just got neither.. thsts what is throwing me.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> ok. got it. since i have no ammonia or nitrite yet, when i do see them i want to start the wc? right? I've been testing everyday since day 1, sometimes twice. morning & night to see if anything is happening.
> when i added dr tims i was to the impression i would see a little of ammonia AND nitrite for just a bit, since i added fish also at the same time. i just got neither.. thsts what is throwing me.


Yes...you will want to do a water change depending on the readings and that will tell you how much you want to do.


----------



## B.Roberson

0---0---0---- 
2 fish still alive


----------



## B.Roberson

i really dont understand. the fish have ate. *** seen poo, *** seen eating and poo in the same hour, *** NEVER seen nitrate. *** never seen ammonia. my fish aren't producing any? how many days can you go without a trace of either??? not possible? or just so trace amounts that it IS cycled?


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> i really dont understand. the fish have ate. I've seen poo, I've seen eating and poo in the same hour, I've NEVER seen nitrate. I've never seen ammonia. my fish aren't producing any? how many days can you go without a trace of either??? not possible? or just so trace amounts that it IS cycled?


It depends on the volume of water, how big the fish are and how much you are feeding. I would wait 24hrs and test again. Right now with all your readings at 0 there is nothing to worry about. Keep feeding the fish as normal. Report back again when you get some positive readings. I know it seems frustrating but that really is all you can do with two small fish in a large tank that isn't fully cycled. It would be much faster dosing 2ppm pure ammonia with no fish in the tank.

I have done this many many many times and it takes time. All you can do is hurry up and wait. Do you not have like a 10g tank with a small little filter and a heater? If you can piece something together like that then that is what I would do then add the pure ammonia and increase oxygenation. That will speed the cycle up.


----------



## DJRansome

When I fill a new tank with water (and don't use an established filter) it can take a week or two for the ammonia to build up enough to register. The more fish, the faster the build up. You won't get nitrites until the first group of beneficial bacteria start to grow...so that takes longer. It took me six weeks to cycle my tank.


----------



## B.Roberson

thanks djRansome. well i did use media from 2 established filters . it seems it hasnt helped. or has it?
so today is tues. last post was sun. 
still 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, 0 ammonia, 
my 2 surviving fish are still there. 
not much an appetite though. they peck a little
any possibility it is cycled? just not enough fish to produce nitrate? 
should i do any pwc?
should i add maybe 2-3 fish every couple weeks to SLOWLY increase bio? 
thanks folks


----------



## 13razorbackfan

How often are you feeding them? When was the last water change?


----------



## B.Roberson

Feeding 1 time a day.about 5 when I get home. My mbuna's which are right next door, see me coming and are jumping out of the tank almost cuz they know its feeding time. 
The last WC was Sunday. A 20-25%. .I didn't want to do a bunch since I havnt seen ANY nitrates yet. 
I'm just thinking since so much volume and only 2 2"fish they aren't producing enough nitrate to register. Idk.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

Yeah...just keep feeding them and checking your readings. Only thing you can do to speed it up is move the fish, add ammonia and wait for it to finish cycling. Then you can add more fish.


----------



## B.Roberson

OK. Patience. 
Once I see nitrates then I know I'm good if no ammonia and nitrite


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> OK. Patience.
> Once I see nitrates then I know I'm good if no ammonia and nitrite


Well....it would mean you are good as far as your current fish bioload. If you added a lot of new fish then likely you would see a spike in ammonia and nitrites. That is why it would be better to dose 2ppm ammonia and wait for it to convert quickly. If you do it with fish just add fish gradually but that will cause another issue....aggression with adding a few fish at a time. The only other way to do it is to add, say 5 fish, and feed lightly and monitor readings. Continue to do that until tank is stocked. That will require a lot of water changes, testing and monitoring and can be very tough. Again, best way is to move your fish over to a small tank in the mean time and dose with 2ppm ammonia until the tank is cycled. Then order or add all the fish at one time.


----------



## B.Roberson

fish rehomed. tempoarily or idk. they were not very active. im gonna run and get amm after dinner and dose. ........oh wait? i did a pwc with prime. do i need wait 24hrs?????
i took good notes of the fishless cycle but will ask if i need help . and boy i thank you ahead of time if i need it. thanks for all your help so far 13razorbackfan


----------



## B.Roberson

never mind. my local hw store only has amm with surficants so ill get some in portalnd tmrw.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> fish rehomed. tempoarily or idk. they were not very active. im gonna run and get amm after dinner and dose. ........oh wait? i did a pwc with prime. do i need wait 24hrs?????
> i took good notes of the fishless cycle but will ask if i need help . and boy i thank you ahead of time if i need it. thanks for all your help so far 13razorbackfan


Glad you decided to do this. Just dose 2ppm ammonia. Wait 24hrs and test. Prime will have no affect on bacteria's ability to use it to manufacture food. Prime will however throw off your regent based test kit if you don't wait 24hrs. That is why people suggest waiting 24hrs to test after dosing with dechlorinator.


----------



## B.Roberson

ok thanks. prolly answered this somewhere. but when i get to the point where im doing pwc when im getting nitrite and nitrate do i treat my water with prime? or dont worry about the chlorine at all while im cycling? i may have answered already. 
ill test, do wc.add amm. tst nxt day ,do wc ,add amm ,,dito.. that is when im at that point amm @0 after 24


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> ok thanks. prolly answered this somewhere. but when i get to the point where im doing pwc when im getting nitrite and nitrate do i treat my water with prime? or dont worry about the chlorine at all while im cycling? i may have answered already.
> ill test, do wc.add amm. tst nxt day ,do wc ,add amm ,,dito.. that is when im at that point amm @0 after 24


You definitely want to add the prime as soon as you start refilling the tank. The chlorine, not sure if you have chloramine in your area, will kill your bacteria. So make sure to dose as the water is filling.

Again...wait 24hrs on all testing after adding prime.

So right now if you water is reading 0 ammonia/nitrite/nitrate then simply add the ammonia in the correct dose to get 1-2ppm. Wait a couple hours to test to make sure you are reading 1-2ppm. Then wait 24hrs and test for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. If you are still getting ammonia and nitrites wait 24hrs wait 24 more hours and test again. When they reach zero do water change, add the same amount of ammonia you added last time, add prime, wait 24hrs and test. When everything gets to 0 and you get nitrates you are good to go. Do a water change before adding fish. That is how I do it and it works fine.


----------



## B.Roberson

OK. Your a super help 13razorbackfan.


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## B.Roberson

note: first dose ammonia 1-2ppm. thurs 6pm
boy its hard to tell 2,3 idk
looks more like 1-2.
dosed with 1 & 1/2 teaspoon. 90 gal would be 180 drops so i wanted to start with 150 ish. so this gave me that good green. i just dont know 
can i UNDER dose?


----------



## 13razorbackfan

No but you can overdose. I would try and stay within 1-2ppm.


----------



## B.Roberson

okee dokee. i will test everyday at 6pm and see what happens. when i see it drop all the way 0 i will dose and wait 24hrs and hope well.


----------



## B.Roberson

note: day 2 
amm seems to be still 1-2


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## 13razorbackfan

Wait 24hrs and test again.


----------



## B.Roberson

thank you


----------



## B.Roberson

ok, note: yest, amm still 1-2. hoping today i will see a drop. day 3. if not :zz: 
water is VERY cloudy. i SHOULDNT do a wc yet should i? not even a partial? i want to wait till amm drops? then do them every day or so while checking nitrites?


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> ok, note: yest, amm still 1-2. hoping today i will see a drop. day 3. if not :zz:
> water is VERY cloudy. i SHOULDNT do a wc yet should i? not even a partial? i want to wait till amm drops? then do them every day or so while checking nitrites?


Don't worry about the haze in the water. That is fine. You don't want to do a water change until ammonia and nitrite are zero. Then do a water change and dose again. Wait 24hrs and test.


----------



## B.Roberson

well i know i screwed up from the start, but i thought since i added dr tims and also tetra safe start my cycle would start quicker.? i guessed wrong. i will be patient and heed your advice. thank you.


----------



## B.Roberson

note: day 4. monday 5:30 pm looks like amm dropping slightly. will check again tomorrow and hope it dives. then second dose.


----------



## B.Roberson

also quick question, my tap ph is 7 so i add baking soda to up my ph and kh. does the baking soda slow my cycle? i heard maybe. ty


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> also quick question, my tap ph is 7 so i add baking soda to up my ph and kh. does the baking soda slow my cycle? i heard maybe. ty


I wouldn't really mess with you pH unless it is below 7 but more importantly kH is what you need to test and let the pH be where it is. It won't really have an affect on cycling unless there are sudden large spikes.

Also...when testing pH out of tap you really need to let it sit out a while and aerate with a power head or airstone to get a more accurate reading. Your pH actually may be higher than 7.


----------



## B.Roberson

ok. can i test kh out of the tap or same as ph. i think my kh is only like 7-8 out of tap. but i will test both after 24hrs and aeration. iv e been doing baking soda buffer on my mbuna tank since day 1.kh 11-12, gh 8 ph 8


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> ok. can i test kh out of the tap or same as ph. i think my kh is only like 7-8 out of tap. but i will test both after 24hrs and aeration. iv e been doing baking soda buffer on my mbuna tank since day 1.kh 11-12, gh 8 ph 8


That's fine as long as you keep up with, monitor and test. I would aerate and test after 24hrs and see what the readings are.


----------



## B.Roberson

quick update on my new tank. ammonia Still hasnt dropped to 0. Right now day 4 & 1/2 amm is maybe .5 -1 ish. hard to tell. want me to wait till 0 to add second dose right? it hasnt gotten to 0. i dont want to rush it. seems like it is creeping.
now my tap watr. sat overnite, its been 20 hrs ,aerating with an airstone. i didnt add declor,/prime
ph is 7.4
gh 7 to 8 hard to tell when it changed
kh 10
so do you think i should mess with that chemistry in my tanks? seems low on the gh and kh.IDK. thank you
like i said i have been adding baking soda to my 75 since day 1 to raise ph. kh ,but none really raised alot.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> quick update on my new tank. ammonia Still hasnt dropped to 0. Right now day 4 & 1/2 amm is maybe .5 -1 ish. hard to tell. want me to wait till 0 to add second dose right? it hasnt gotten to 0. i dont want to rush it. seems like it is creeping.
> now my tap watr. sat overnite, its been 20 hrs ,aerating with an airstone. i didnt add declor,/prime
> ph is 7.4
> gh 7 to 8 hard to tell when it changed
> kh 10
> so do you think i should mess with that chemistry in my tanks? seems low on the gh and kh.IDK. thank you
> like i said i have been adding baking soda to my 75 since day 1 to raise ph. kh ,but none really raised alot.


kH is fine. I wouldn't mess with your water chemistry. If you are adding baking soda to your other tanks I would slowly stop adding it.

When your ammonia and nitrites reach zero do a 75% water change and then add ammonia. Wait 24hrs and test again.


----------



## B.Roberson

ok.will slowly weed out baking soda. 
now new tank,,,, added only 1 dose ammonia.friday night. i have NEVER seen nitrite yet. 
still wait till 0 amm?
im REALLY hoping tomorrow i see 0 amm, then i can do a wt and add 2nd dose amm.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> ok.will slowly weed out baking soda.
> now new tank,,,, added only 1 dose ammonia.friday night. i have NEVER seen nitrite yet.
> still wait till 0 amm?
> im REALLY hoping tomorrow i see 0 amm, then i can do a wt and add 2nd dose amm.


Wait till you have zero both and then you should see some nitrates.

I would drop your water level some creating even more surface disturbance than you already have. That will help with oxygenation in turn will help speed up the cycle.


----------



## B.Roberson

yeah its dropping already cuz my temp is cranked up to 87. a got a real nice rapid on top of my water.
thanks 13razorbackfan,. i will chk tomorrow and hope the best. just want this thing to get going... opcorn: 
i got everything written down once this gets going. 
test, patrial wc, add amm.
test add amm.
test pwc add amm. 
this is of course if amm and nitrite are 0. 
i know once i see nitrite i dont need to look for amm.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

Just to make sure we are on the same page. You don't want to do a water change or add more ammonia until your ammonia/nitrites are at zero. Once you are at zero on both then do a water change, add your prime then add ammonia. Wait 24hrs then test. If after 24hrs you still have ammonia and nitrites then wait 24hrs and test again.


----------



## B.Roberson

Right. Exactly. 
Just seems ammonia taking awhile to drop.
Not touching anything till then. 
Thanks again for sticking this out with me.


----------



## B.Roberson

13razorbackfan. thanks for everything. i seem this thread has moved from dream tank to tank/ water you seem to be the only one following this anyway. . do you want me to keep on updating you on how my cycle is going or do you want to move it to another thread? 
My ALL Aulaconara isnt gonna be all aula anymore anyway, its gonna be hap and peacocks as all of you have given me great ideas.

i did retest toinite, amm maybe.25. [maybe] not more but not 0. i did a 25% wc and added amm to 2. 
I will retest tomorrow.
tank has been SO cloudy for 2 weeks i couldnt look from one end to the other. I could see the background looking straight in, but it was hazy. 
I have yet to see nitrite> 
im hoping since amm was so close to 0, adding second dose with a wc might help.idk
temp is still 87
dosed prime for wc. 
thank you, I really really appreciate your help.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

You are welcome. You don't need to update me. I think you have the knowledge now to know what you are doing. The cloudiness is a byproduct of the bacteria multiplication. It will go away once it establishes equilibrium.


----------



## B.Roberson

whew. thnx. i didnt think it was going to ever clear. i sure dont remember my 75 going thru all this. Frown.
1 day at a time is what i'm gonna do.


----------



## B.Roberson

hi 13razorbackfan. can i be a pill? added second dose amm wed night. wed i came home and it was maybe .5. so anyway second dose wed, tested yesterday sill 1-2. again today, 1-2. hasnt dropped. did it get hung up? its just taking its sweet time. if amm takes this long nitrites are gonna kill me lol.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

Add more oxygenation by dropping the water level or adding more surface agitation. That will help. Just goes to show that if you had some seed bacteria it wasn't very much.


----------



## B.Roberson

And just wait.? Another 24 hrs? Okee dokee


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> And just wait.? Another 24 hrs? Okee dokee


Yep....wait 24hrs and test again.


----------



## B.Roberson

its frustrating... aaaarrrggghh. came home again today, amm STILL hasnt dropped from second dose. holding at 2ppm
so i checked ph, to make sure not too low. its 7-5-8.
temp has been 87 every day. water circulation VERY good. 
why wont this %$#% amm drop?? 
on a side note, water is clearing up very slightly.
if it takes 2 weeks for amm to drop in 24 hrs it will take 2 months for nitrite to drop at this rate. 
oh and when i cleaned my ac110 on the 75 couple days ago i squeezed the pads into the tank to boost some bacteria??


----------



## 13razorbackfan

Nothing you can do but do what you are doing or seed the filters by adding a lot of bio and mechanical media.


----------



## B.Roberson

well i have 2 canisters running. xp3"s. is it possible to just shut one off for a minute open it and shove some media in it from my other filter on my 75?. i dont want to crash my 75...it has a xp3 also and ac110. my normal wc on the 75 is tomorrow any way, so i'll shake the sponge in the tank when i clean the filter. i shook the heck out of the ceramic from the ac110 of the 75 into the tank tonite to maybe get some more going .. idk :-?


----------



## 13razorbackfan

You definitely don't want to shake it up and disturb the biofilm created by the bacteria. You simply want to pull some media from a cycled filter and insert that media into the canister filters on the tank you are currently cycling. You want to make sure to check your readings on the tank you remove the media from but what I would do is just not feed for a few days and then only feed lightly the tank you removed some of the media from.


----------



## B.Roberson

ok. i took a blue/white pad from the ac110 when doing maintenance on my 75 and put it in 1 of the canisters on the new tank. also while i was doing the wc and vacuum of poo i put the bio,[ceramic rings] mesh bag from the ac110 also and put it in the jet of the out take of the new tank for 20 min or so to maybe get some bb into the tank. does that sound ok??
out of curiosity i checked the amm this morn, and guess what?? yep, it was STILL 1-2ppm. frown
i will check tonite
also is it OK to do a wc. just to maybe give the ph a boost? it seems ok though. if anything help clear up the cloudiness? it would make me feel better....
But if I shouldn't i wont
thanks again for any input. 
also set up a 10g to be hosp/quar


----------



## 13razorbackfan

Moving that bag over to the output jets of the tank will do nothing unless it is left there permanently or other media. The autotrophic bacteria you want are not readily available in the water column. You need to put that mesh bag inside the filter itself. Why not just swap the biomedia in the bag? Put the established rings inside the canister filter and put the rings currently inside the canister filter inside the mesh bag and put it back in the AC110.


----------



## B.Roberson

cuz I didn't think of it! I'm going to do it now.. Thankz
what about a w/c? yea/nay?


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> cuz I didn't think of it! I'm going to do it now.. Thankz
> what about a w/c? yea/nay?


No....wait a couple days after you remove the media from your established tank and check the parameters on that tank as well. If need be then do a water change.


----------



## B.Roberson

btw. thank you for your diligence keeping up with me.. its is truly appreciated . i so want this to work and get going and I know a lot of it is just patience and common sense.
thanks again. experience is knowledge, knowledge is from experience.ty


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> btw. thank you for your diligence keeping up with me.. its is truly appreciated . i so want this to work and get going and I know a lot of it is just patience and common sense.
> thanks again. experience is knowledge, knowledge is from experience.ty


You are welcome. That is what this forum is for. We are always learning. I learn new things every day.


----------



## afracichlids

Wow beautiful setup the bg is boss as **** how much did it cost dont mind me asking?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c16kgqg ... ata_player


----------



## B.Roberson

added that media yesterday from the other filter. no change in amm, tonite. its been 7 days since adding amm. when do you think it will drop? well it dropped 1 time. im still on second dose, day 4,going on 5 since adding 2nd dose. idk. i thought after the first drop, it would be DAILY amm drop after that.


----------



## B.Roberson

checking my posts, first dose was the 14th. the 20th it looked like maybe .25 so added second dose. since then nothing. every week is going slower and slower seems. frown.

i thought after the first drop, it would be DAILY amm drop after that


----------



## 13razorbackfan

Hard to say. I have seen cycles take 2 weeks and sometimes more than 2 months. If you seed the filter like you did then it should go fairly quick from now but still hard to say.


----------



## B.Roberson

opcorn: i think im gonna run out of my liquid test before this darn ammonia drops,lol :zz: :x


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> opcorn: i think im gonna run out of my liquid test before this darn ammonia drops,lol :zz: :x


LOL....wait 48hrs and test. You will be ok to wait 48hrs or even longer. You do want to do 24hrs before adding fish though to make sure the conversion is quick enough.


----------



## B.Roberson

i dont have to worry about adding fish too soon razor. 
simply cuz my ammonia will not drop.......  
i mean come on man!!!! :-? 
is it ever?? 
will it drop??? 
am i being too impatient?? :?

first dose ammonia the 14th..............................................................................................................................................................
i sure want something in these test tubes to change color, especially from green to yellow, and blue to purple, lololololol.. help. 
anyone else had to wait this long??
on a good note MAYBE,,,,, water is clearing up very slightly.. uuuugggghhh


----------



## fishing12

I'm following and waiting on your good news. opcorn:


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> i dont have to worry about adding fish too soon razor.
> simply cuz my ammonia will not drop.......
> i mean come on man!!!! :-?
> is it ever??
> will it drop???
> am i being too impatient?? :?
> 
> first dose ammonia the 14th..............................................................................................................................................................
> i sure want something in these test tubes to change color, especially from green to yellow, and blue to purple, lololololol.. help.
> anyone else had to wait this long??
> on a good note MAYBE,,,,, water is clearing up very slightly.. uuuugggghhh


I have had to wait this long before. There are way too many variables to try and figure out why it is taking this long. Patience is the only thing I can tell you. Since you seeded the filter it should start to kick in soon. Again....make sure you have awesome surface agitation. I mean a lot. Not just a ripple on the surface but looks literally more like a whirlpool hot tub. That and more media for the bacteria to adhere to are really the only things you can do after seeding the filters.


----------



## B.Roberson

ok thanks. 
hey fishing, got an extra pole? lol... have you gone thru this??
ok razor, yes *** seeded as much as i can right now, im not taking down my canister to seed more. 
i agree it SHOULD start to see something but im not. i will wait.,.,.,.,.,.,.


----------



## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> ok thanks.
> hey fishing, got an extra pole? lol... have you gone thru this??
> ok razor, yes I've seeded as much as i can right now, im not taking down my canister to seed more.
> i agree it SHOULD start to see something but im not. i will wait.,.,.,.,.,.,.


Yep about 40 of them LOL! I cycled my 180 a little over a month ago. I had one somewhat seeded Eheim and added a fully seeded Fluval 306 to the tank about a week after using some Bacteria in a bottle product. IT still took me about two weeks to get to a point that I was confident the tank could handle 20+ fish. The two weeks seemed forever but once you get it done properly you will sleep better knowing your fish will have a safe environment and your wallet will not have shelled out $400+ on fish as a test. Hang in there and 13razorbackfan is spot on with you.


----------



## B.Roberson

180?? wow. my stuff is irellevant ..////../ i i know he is. he has been the 1 and only confident i]ve had ,but trued and tried in experience. . he is awsome/ 
yw 13razorbackfan!!!
cant wait for the color yellow


----------



## B.Roberson

so back to a serious question, the ammonia WILL drop right? i mean it has to? right?
eventually!


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> so back to a serious question, the ammonia WILL drop right? i mean it has to? right?
> eventually!


Yes....it will drop and don't be surprised if it does very quickly.


----------



## B.Roberson

day 18 after second dose amm. no drop yet. but im still waiting. hopefully 1 of these days. 
Keep your popcorn ready T O ... ( Terrell Owens ) LOL' fishing12 :fish:


----------



## B.Roberson

ammonia dropping slightly. i think its 1ish today. definatly a lighter green. will check tmrw. hope it good news. 
so if nitrite takes 2-3 times longer to drop im in for a long ride.............


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> ammonia dropping slightly. i think its 1ish today. definatly a lighter green. will check tmrw. hope it good news.
> so if nitrite takes 2-3 times longer to drop im in for a long ride.............


Hard to say. Just be patient. It will happen. :thumb:


----------



## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> ammonia dropping slightly. i think its 1ish today. definatly a lighter green. will check tmrw. hope it good news.
> so if nitrite takes 2-3 times longer to drop im in for a long ride.............


 opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:


----------



## B.Roberson

i know it will. my water is clearing up nicely though. so something is happening  
 thanx 13razorbackfan


----------



## B.Roberson

oh your so funny fishing 12 .. hahahahahah that is tooo funny. your awsome. im friggin cant wait for this to get going, oh while you stare at your beautiful 180 (cycled) .. heheheheh


----------



## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> oh your so funny fishing 12 .. hahahahahah that is tooo funny. your awsome. im friggin cant wait for this to get going, oh while you stare at your beautiful 180 (cycled) .. heheheheh


Just having a little fun and trying to keep it easy for you. I look forward to the post that your bio is kicked into gear! I'll send you a virtual beer and you can send back some pictures of your setup once you get some fish in it! :thumb: :fish:


----------



## B.Roberson

oh I know and its much appreciated. i have no problem with your humor. and if you were here i WOULD be having a beer with you as I am right now. starting a mini vaca,6 days off. hoping to see changes in this tank. and i will be updating.; got good sponser data for me? I wanna order ALL my fish at once. Obviously all male, RE: all auloconara!! and a couple haps. i have plenty ideas. but specific examples of what has worked with others. im looking at 7-8 peacocks, 2-3 haps is my goal. 
Dont go to sleep on me fishing12 :zz: hahahhaa :zz:


----------



## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> oh I know and its much appreciated. i have no problem with your humor. and if you were here i WOULD be having a beer with you as I am right now. starting a mini vaca,6 days off. hoping to see changes in this tank. and i will be updating.; got good sponser data for me? I wanna order ALL my fish at once. Obviously all male, RE: all auloconara!! and a couple haps. i have plenty ideas. but specific examples of what has worked with others. im looking at 7-8 peacocks, 2-3 haps is my goal.
> Dont go to sleep on me fishing12 :zz: hahahhaa :zz:


PM sent.


----------



## B.Roberson

was gone a day. checked ammonia,0. 
treated to 1-2 ppm.will check tomorrow eve.hopefully 0 agin. 
oh also i have never seen nitite yet, so i checked my nitate. it was 10-20.??
did i miss the nitrite?? its been a baby blue from the start. i also checked with some test strips that i had when i first started this hobby2 yrs. but they show nitrate not nitrite.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

Wait 24hrs and test for ammonia. If at 0 then test nitrites. I wouldn't worry about nitrites or nitrates too much until ammonia is 0 after waiting 24hrs. Then I would check nitrite. If zero then I would dose again and wait 24hrs. If zero then I would check nitrates. If you get a spike in nitrates then do a large water change and add fish. You can start with two fish or however many you want. The bacteria that built up will still be there even though there is not enough ammonia and nitrite to go around. They will just lay dormant.


----------



## B.Roberson

awsome  i will do such that. i like the fact i saw 0 amm.  
oh and water is pretty much crystal clear. i like that too. 
thanx for everything 13razorbackfan
gonna start calling sponsers and seeing what i can get ahold of. :fish: :fish: :fish:


----------



## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> awsome  i will do such that. i like the fact i saw 0 amm.
> oh and water is pretty much crystal clear. i like that too.
> thanx for everything 13razorbackfan
> gonna start calling sponsers and seeing what i can get ahold of. :fish: :fish: :fish:


Nice! :thumb:


----------



## B.Roberson

im getting nitrites


----------



## B.Roberson

just clarification.
added 3rd dose ammonia yesterday. hasnt dropped yet in 24 hrs. wait? i do have nitrites. its 1? could be 2 ish?
or add amm every 2-3 days anyway? with pwc? or wait till it drops to 0. add amm ?


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> just clarification.
> added 3rd dose ammonia yesterday. hasnt dropped yet in 24 hrs. wait? i do have nitrites. its 1? could be 2 ish?
> or add amm every 2-3 days anyway? with pwc? or wait till it drops to 0. add amm ?


Wait until BOTH the ammonia AND the nitrites are zero then do a large water change. Then dose ammonia again. Wait 24hrs and test. If both ammonia and nitrites are zero then you are good to go. You can go ahead and do another water change at that time then add fish.

Don't add ammonia until ammonia AND nitrites are zero. You need to be able to have some sort of control over the process.


----------



## B.Roberson

alrght. 
i thought this was what i was going for? 
Here is what your daily routine going forward will look like:

• Test for nitrite, perform water change, and then add ammonia.
• Next day; test for nitrite, perform water change.
• Next day; test for nitrite, perform water change, and then add ammonia.
• Next day; test for nitrite, perform water change.
• Next day; test for nitrite, perform water change, and then add ammonia
im just trying to get it... im close i know. thanks 13razorbackfan


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> alrght.
> i thought this was what i was going for?
> Here is what your daily routine going forward will look like:
> 
> • Test for nitrite, perform water change, and then add ammonia.
> • Next day; test for nitrite, perform water change.
> • Next day; test for nitrite, perform water change, and then add ammonia.
> • Next day; test for nitrite, perform water change.
> • Next day; test for nitrite, perform water change, and then add ammonia
> im just trying to get it... im close i know. thanks 13razorbackfan


Not quite....this is what I would do.

Test for ammonia and nitrites both. If you get readings for either then leave tank alone and do nothing. Don't do a water change and don't add more ammonia. 
24hrs later test again. If you get readings then do nothing for 24hrs until you test again. Keep repeating this every day until both are at zero on the same day. 
When both get to zero do a water change, add ammonia, wait 24hrs and test. If you get readings for ammonia or nitrite then wait 24hrs and test again.

When you get to the point where you add ammonia and then you wait 24hrs and test and both are zero at the same time then do a water change and add fish. You don't have to do a water change after every time you get zero readings on ammonia or nitrites. It won't hurt anything if you do the water changes but not totally necessary IMO.


----------



## B.Roberson

ok. today amm 0. nitrite .5 -1.0. Ish hard to tell. could be 2
so wait 24rhs more to see if nitrite drops also? no amm dose yet? ok.....


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> ok. today amm 0. nitrite .5 -1.0. Ish hard to tell. could be 2
> so wait 24rhs more to see if nitrite drops also? no amm dose yet? ok.....


Yes...wait 24hrs and test again. Don't add ammonia until nitrite reaches 0. Then check nitrates. If low then you can just add ammonia. Wait 24hrs and test again.

You are getting closer.


----------



## B.Roberson

awsome. i was looking at your list you gave me,. most were on 2-3 lists that i have come up with. i like em. haps even with peacocks really. 
im wondrering if stock availability, if possibly add deep water hap, OR sub a albino peacock somewhere. how bout stuartgranti maleri (sunshine) chidunga rock?


----------



## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> awsome. i was looking at your list you gave me,. most were on 2-3 lists that i have come up with. i like em. haps even with peacocks really.
> im wondrering if stock availability, if possibly add deep water hap, OR sub a albino peacock somewhere. how bout stuartgranti maleri (sunshine) chidunga rock?


 opcorn: Whats on your list?


----------



## B.Roberson

its a secret.


----------



## B.Roberson

jus kidding. 
i had sturtgranti flametail,
copadochromis borleyi
placidochromis deep water
stuartgranti maleri
german red
baenschi benga peacock
copadochromis azureus
otopharynx lithobate
lethrinops sp. 
forgive me. all my lists are jumbled and crossed out what doesnt seem to work.


----------



## B.Roberson

another list
benga yellow
swallowtail
flametail
taiwain reef
plac elec deep water
ruby red
yell jake
bi color500
ob peacock hybrid
sulferhead, but heard they dont color


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> awsome. i was looking at your list you gave me,. most were on 2-3 lists that i have come up with. i like em. haps even with peacocks really.
> im wondrering if stock availability, if possibly add deep water hap, OR sub a albino peacock somewhere. how bout stuartgranti maleri (sunshine) chidunga rock?


Skip the albino. They can be very aggressive. The Chidunga would be fine but if you are going with a maleri or baenschi I would skip it.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> another list
> benga yellow
> swallowtail
> flametail
> taiwain reef
> plac elec deep water
> ruby red
> yell jake
> bi color500
> ob peacock hybrid
> sulferhead, but heard they dont color


The sulfur head likely won't color and I would skip the OB.


----------



## B.Roberson

and i like the azureus and borelyi mbenji and that intermedius that you suggested in place of those 13razorbackfan.
soo

benga yellow
swallowtail
flametail
taiwain reef
plac elec deep water
ruby red or german red
yell jake
azureus 
borelyi mbenji
tram sp intermedius
how that sound?? 
of course still dreAMING! stock willdetermine what comes home


----------



## fishing12

13razorbackfan said:


> B.Roberson said:
> 
> 
> 
> another list
> benga yellow
> swallowtail
> flametail
> taiwain reef
> plac elec deep water
> ruby red
> yell jake
> bi color500
> ob peacock hybrid
> sulferhead, but heard they dont color
> 
> 
> 
> The sulfur head likely won't color and I would skip the OB.
Click to expand...

The last two all male tanks that I saw the Suferhead had no color. The one in my tank is only 2 inches and I have low confidence it will ever reach its potential but I wanted to give it a shot. My OB Peacock never even made it to my all male setup, its aggression level was off the charts!


----------



## B.Roberson

yeah 13 razorbackfan said that too. no sulferhead. and no ob then. 
im curious though. if my amm is 0 and im waiting for nitrite to drop will it kill any bacteria while im waiting? dont you not want to wait more than 24 hrs to re-add amm. please confirm. thanks 
13razorbakfan? u still there?


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> yeah 13 razorbackfan said that too. no sulferhead. and no ob then.
> im curious though. if my amm is 0 and im waiting for nitrite to drop will it kill any bacteria while im waiting? dont you not want to wait more than 24 hrs to re-add amm. please confirm. thanks
> 13razorbakfan? u still there?


No...the same bacteria is doing the conversion. The autotrophic bacteria we want in our aquariums doesn't need Oxygen or food(ammonia and nitrite) to survive. It only needs those things to multiply. So don't add any ammonia until nitrite is zero.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> and i like the azureus and borelyi mbenji and that intermedius that you suggested in place of those 13razorbackfan.
> soo
> 
> benga yellow
> swallowtail
> flametail
> taiwain reef
> plac elec deep water
> ruby red or german red
> yell jake
> azureus
> borelyi mbenji
> tram sp intermedius
> how that sound??
> of course still dreAMING! stock willdetermine what comes home


You may have a problem with the swallow tail and lemon jake fighting each other so you can try it otherwise I would just order one or the other. The lemon jake will have better color IMO.


----------



## fishing12

13razorbackfan said:


> B.Roberson said:
> 
> 
> 
> and i like the azureus and borelyi mbenji and that intermedius that you suggested in place of those 13razorbackfan.
> soo
> 
> benga yellow
> swallowtail
> flametail
> taiwain reef
> plac elec deep water
> ruby red or german red
> yell jake
> azureus
> borelyi mbenji
> tram sp intermedius
> how that sound??
> of course still dreAMING! stock willdetermine what comes home
> 
> 
> 
> You may have a problem with the swallow tail and lemon jake fighting each other so you can try it otherwise I would just order one or the other. The lemon jake will have better color IMO.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you on this. My lemon Jake is getting nicer and nicer, they really are a beautiful fish.


----------



## B.Roberson

alright. the list is getting refined, lets hope a supplier has them.. :drooling: 
nitrite dropped to 0. i redosed amm. will check tomorrow after work.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> nitrite dropped to 0. i redosed amm. will check tomorrow after work.


Sounds good.


----------



## B.Roberson

ok, dosed amm again yesterday. today,amm 0. nitrite still 2 or so. nitrate unreadable. 80 or more.
should or can i do a pwc? or just let it run its course and wait for nitrite to drop? then redose. just let nitrate do what its gonna do then massive wc before adding fish?


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> ok, dosed amm again yesterday. today,amm 0. nitrite still 2 or so. nitrate unreadable. 80 or more.
> should or can i do a pwc? or just let it run its course and wait for nitrite to drop? then redose. just let nitrate do what its gonna do then massive wc before adding fish?


Wait till nitrite is 0 then do a large water change. Then add ammonia and wait 24hrs and test again. I bet you are a couple days away from being done.


----------



## B.Roberson

ooohh goody gooody. thanks 13razorbackfan. i will wait. .
another reason, i wanna abandon this post so i can enjoy sitting back and reading other ones!  
but i sure appreciate your help. thanx again. i will test tmrw :thumb:


----------



## fishing12

opcorn: Nice! Almost there!


----------



## B.Roberson

Checked nitrite this morning before leaving for work. It was 0. 
I will do a good size WC when I get home and redose amm. Yup ,getting close I think.


----------



## B.Roberson

Hey 13razorbackfan.I found this post on the internet from Oct 16 2011. My birthday even.
3.5" fusco 
3.25" red fin borleyi 
2.25" sunshine peacock 
2" baenschi peacock 
1.25" sunburst peacock 
1.75" eureka/ruby red peacock 
2.5" albino eureka red peacock 
2.25" electric blue ahli 
2.25" yellow rock kribensis 
2.75" Copadichromis azureus
You had just finished adjusting your stock in your 75. 
Did this work? Just curious


----------



## 13razorbackfan

No because at that time I was still buying locally and the ahli turned out to be a hormoned female and caused major problems. I was having all kinds of issues in my area with hormoned fish and hybrids(although I was pretty good at selecting pure fish). So I sold all those fish and started ordering online. I was also going to move them all to a 180g(borleyi, aggressive peacocks and the fusco really need a large tank) and decided to sell that tank just recently. I am going to order a 240g sometime this summer...I hope.

I have been ten times happier ordering online. I will NEVER buy locally again.


----------



## fishing12

13razorbackfan said:


> No because at that time I was still buying locally and the ahli turned out to be a hormoned female and caused major problems. I was having all kinds of issues in my area with hormoned fish and hybrids(although I was pretty good at selecting pure fish). So I sold all those fish and started ordering online. I was also going to move them all to a 180g(borleyi, aggressive peacocks and the fusco really need a large tank) and decided to sell that tank just recently. I am going to order a 240g sometime this summer...I hope.
> 
> I have been ten times happier ordering online. I will NEVER buy locally again.


I cant agree with your more about the online buying. I would always prefer to support a local business but in the long run when it comes to fish it usually has not worked out for me. You were one of the first people that I spoke with regarding purchasing online and it has been a great experience getting what I want with out the hassles.


----------



## B.Roberson

Yup. I've had to re home all my initial stock minus my lab carelous & purchased the rest online. Still working..
Fwi. 50% WC last nite. Redosed amm. Will check tonite. Hopefully 0 nitrite..


----------



## B.Roberson

bummer.  
came home, ammonia 0 , but still have nitrites . i will wait another 24 hrs. 
fishies are gonna have to wait till maybe sometime next week.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> bummer.
> came home, ammonia 0 , but still have nitrites . i will wait another 24 hrs.
> fishies are gonna have to wait till maybe sometime next week.


That's ok. I think you are close.


----------



## B.Roberson

again today nitrite still .25. i will wait till tomorrow. its taking 2 days plus to drop.
gosh, taking its sweet time. i want thus stuff to drop in 24 hours so i know i'm there.


----------



## fishing12

If you go back and read my thread under Tank Setups (180 Getting Ready! ) the last two pages documents my tank being cycled, b3w4r3 walked me through it. It seemed like it would never happen but read this it will give you the time frame that my tank took. Maybe this will get you past this last little waiting period.


----------



## B.Roberson

ok thanks . as im replying to oyur other thread. hahaha


----------



## B.Roberson

b3w4r3 was all over your cycle like 13razorbackfan has been with mine. both a huge help and a confidence booster, knowing that it WILL happen, just patience.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> b3w4r3 was all over your cycle like 13razorbackfan has been with mine. both a huge help and a confidence booster, knowing that it WILL happen, just patience.


Yep.....it will happen. Sometimes faster on some tanks and sometimes slower. Way too many variables to know exactly how fast on each individual tank.


----------



## B.Roberson

bought xtra popcorn today in case lol opcorn: hahaha.


----------



## B.Roberson

tonite. obviously 0 amm. nitrite 0 tonite. 30% wc . dosed amm to 2. 
longest thread ever???? geez. can the cycle be over?
sorry first part of thread was different subject. im bummed


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> tonite. obviously 0 amm. nitrite 0 tonite. 30% wc . dosed amm to 2. by Su
> longest thread ever???? geez. can the cycle be over?
> sorry first part of thread was different subject. im bummed


So I went back and looked and you really started your cycle roughly a month ago right? That is when you took the fish out and started dosing with ammonia? I think you are pretty much there. I think Monday you can order your fish.


----------



## B.Roberson

yep. the 14th was the first dose. its eating amm in 18 hours or less. im hoping to see nitrite gone tonite when i test. i dosed at 6pm last nite after a small wc.if no nitrite i will be a happy camper. :dancing:


----------



## B.Roberson

am i overdosing ammonia razor? i dosed last nite after a 25-30% wc. tonight, still .25 amm nitrite 1. 
I am dosing the original amount. should i be doing half? im dosing to 1-2 still.. but now its still hanging around...  
and i'm ONLY dosing after everything hits 0..


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> am i overdosing ammonia razor? i dosed last nite after a 25-30% wc. tonight, still .25 amm nitrite 1.
> I am dosing the original amount. should i be doing half? im dosing to 1-2 still.. but now its still hanging around...
> and i'm ONLY dosing after everything hits 0..


I would go ahead and stop doing the water changes and just continue dosing. After you get to zero just dose again without doing any water changes.


----------



## B.Roberson

ok. thank you!


----------



## B.Roberson

do you think the wc hindered something? or am i overthinking and being impatient?


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> do you think the wc hindered something? or am i overthinking and being impatient?


I am not sure. If you have high chlorine or chloramine levels and you added the dechlorinator after filling the tank then it is possible. Is the water going in the tank the same temperature as the water in the tank? If it is much colder it could shock the bacteria.

Regardless I would wait until your cycle completes before doing another water change.


----------



## B.Roberson

no. I use prime, and mix it in a 2 gal pitcher of tank water and add it at the same time i start refilling. I use a digital therm to get the temp within a degree or two of tank temp. same as i have always done. idk maybe just taking its sweet time. they say nitrite drop longer than amm, but geez.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> no. I use prime, and mix it in a 2 gal pitcher of tank water and add it at the same time i start refilling. I use a digital therm to get the temp within a degree or two of tank temp. same as i have always done. idk maybe just taking its sweet time. they say nitrite drop longer than amm, but geez.


Yeah....not real sure. Just have to continue doing what you have been doing. I think you are very close.


----------



## B.Roberson

at least I have a mbuna tank to stare at while I'm waiting :fish: :dancing:


----------



## B.Roberson

i think my cycle is going backward. :-? 
amm and nitrite was going in 1 day & 1/2. now amm is gone but nitrite is sticking around 2 days now. :x i dosed amm friday night and nitrite is still 1-2. today at 5pm
dang....
if it doesnt start dropping ill have to pospone my fish order/. i was hoping to get them by thurs,,, but if i dont see a instant drop in this nitrite, i dont know what to do???
i know nitrite is a pill but geez...


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> i think my cycle is going backward. :-?
> amm and nitrite was going in 1 day & 1/2. now amm is gone but nitrite is sticking around 2 days now. :x i dosed amm friday night and nitrite is still 1-2. today at 5pm
> dang....
> if it doesnt start dropping ill have to pospone my fish order/. i was hoping to get them by thurs,,, but if i dont see a instant drop in this nitrite, i dont know what to do???
> i know nitrite is a pill but geez...


Just imagine if you had left the fish in the tank and continued on the way it was.


----------



## B.Roberson

i would be sad


----------



## B.Roberson

so i havnt added amm in 2 days but my nitrite hasnt dropped again yet. my amm is 0 for 2 days. should i redose?? is that good bacteria going to go away?? or wait till nitrite drops??? uuuggghhh


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> so i havnt added amm in 2 days but my nitrite hasnt dropped again yet. my amm is 0 for 2 days. should i redose?? is that good bacteria going to go away?? or wait till nitrite drops??? uuuggghhh


Just wait till it drops. I would zero out both the ammonia and nitrites. Then do it again. Man....you have to be getting close. Have to.


----------



## B.Roberson

Alrighty. I'll wait. Frown. Hehehe


----------



## B.Roberson

ok. 5:30 pm pacific. nitrite .25. i will wait. 
my good bacteria isnt going to go bad is it? day 3 no ammoinia. 
also question,, real fine white algae hair on the rocks and the bg. bg is real rough. like a coarse sandpaper. will this algae go away on its own?
can i use ? or should I use like a very soft bristle brush to loosen it so the filters pick it up or leave it alone? 
most important i will check nitrite before bed if 0 im redosing amm. should i dose to the full 1-2? or half. say .5-1?


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> ok. 5:30 pm pacific. nitrite .25. i will wait.
> my good bacteria isnt going to go bad is it? day 3 no ammoinia.
> also question,, real fine white algae hair on the rocks and the bg. bg is real rough. like a coarse sandpaper. will this algae go away on its own?
> can i use ? or should I use like a very soft bristle brush to loosen it so the filters pick it up or leave it alone?
> most important i will check nitrite before bed if 0 im redosing amm. should i dose to the full 1-2? or half. say .5-1?


I would dose to 1-2ppm.


----------



## B.Roberson

Yes. I dosed to 1-2 last night. Will see what's happening tonight. What do you think about the algae? Will it go away on its own?. Thanx


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> Yes. I dosed to 1-2 last night. Will see what's happening tonight. What do you think about the algae? Will it go away on its own?. Thanx


Probably go away on its own.


----------



## fishing12

I had a little cloud of algae when I cycled it disappeared on its own. You have to be so close, just listen to 13 and as hard as it is, stay patient and keep doing what you are doing I bet by this weekend you will be good to go.


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## B.Roberson

thanx razor and fishin!!
yeah last night amm is gone of course, but still 2ish nitrite. i will wait. hmmmm have i heard this before?? :roll: 
yeah the algae is like peach fuzz really. have to look hard to see it, bit its attached to the rocks and bg. just little floaties hanging on to things. 
actually looks like little cobwebs all over....


----------



## B.Roberson

ok. so i think my Daughters rubbed off on my nitrite!!! STUBBORN as crud. dosed amm monday night, tues pm was gone but nitrite still 1-2. 
tonite nitrite still....... .25. i think it will be gone by bedtime, BUT?, still taking 2 days for nitrite to drop?? why >> geez,.,./,????.im getting /thinking it just aint happening! :x 
well it better, I have faith :lol: i ordered my fish. was going for this week but opted for next tue. so if it aint happening by then i will do a wc every single day of my new fish life until it does happen. i cant schedule any more time off..... :? 
oh if nitrite 0 by bedtime im redosing?? wc???


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> ok. so i think my Daughters rubbed off on my nitrite!!! STUBBORN as crud. dosed amm monday night, tues pm was gone but nitrite still 1-2.
> tonite nitrite still....... .25. i think it will be gone by bedtime, BUT?, still taking 2 days for nitrite to drop?? why >> geez,.,./,????.im getting /thinking it just aint happening! :x
> well it better, I have faith :lol: i ordered my fish. was going for this week but opted for next tue. so if it aint happening by then i will do a wc every single day of my new fish life until it does happen. i cant schedule any more time off..... :?
> oh if nitrite 0 by bedtime im redosing?? wc???


No...don't do a water change. If zero later tonight go ahead and dose the ammonia. That is the last time I would dose. When everything drops to zero go ahead and do a water change. After you add the fish wait 24hrs and test.


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## B.Roberson

Really?? ok. yeah im sure nitrite will be 0 tonite. it is that ccolor, it could change while im watching. just seems its taking 2 days amm 1. 
i will dose again. i think its close also. i will do a wc say monday. fish come tues. big wc? 90% to get nitrate down?.
so hey 13razorbackfan? hERE what i ordered. I have ordered from them before. They are REALLY nice. we talked about them.
copa borleyi mbenji
plac deep water
prom steveni taiwan reef
tram sp. intermedius
azereus
baenschi flavescent
german red
ngara flametail
lemon jake
otoph zimbawae rock lithobate
syno spotted hybrid catfish
what do you think? i know it is hit and miss but all these are juvenile at best. Just sexed. 2- 1/2 -3 " max. so hopefully they can grow up a little and be used to each other a bit so as to get along bettr. IDK hoping


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## 13razorbackfan

That is a good mix. Should stand a very good chance of working. Only time will tell as far as that goes. Each fish has its own personality.

Make sure the day before you receive the fish to do a large water change. This is what I do when I receive new fish that have been shipped directly to me:

Leave tank lights off and use only ambient room light and float each fish in its bag. Inspect to make sure they all are alive and well.

Wait 30 minutes and open each bag one at a time and grab the fish with your hands and just drop it in the tank. Don't mix tank water with water in the bag and don't dump any of the water in the bag in the tank.

Then black out the tank and room as dark as possible for 24hrs. This is not entirely necessary unless you have other fish in the tank but it won't hurt. I certainly would not turn the tank light on regardless.

Then you will be good to go. That way there is little to no stress on the fish.


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## B.Roberson

Thanx. still the picture of 1 day amm drop,, 2 days nitrite. but seems its getting day and 3/4 for nitrite. crud. can it take longer? lol
idk but do i have the longest cycle post in forum history? i know a lot of first questions were a diff subject but come on man??? we have new folks here on the forum and they have already cycled after starting mine... frown


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> Thanx. still the picture of 1 day amm drop,, 2 days nitrite. but seems its getting day and 3/4 for nitrite. crud. can it take longer? lol
> idk but do i have the longest cycle post in forum history? i know a lot of first questions were a diff subject but come on man??? we have new folks here on the forum and they have already cycled after starting mine... frown


There are many factors involved and it really is different from person to person. I have seen tanks fully cycle in two weeks and some that go almost two months.


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## fishing12

I think you have a good stock list. The only one I might watch out for is the Lemon Jake. Mine is very aggressive and beats on my Red Top Lawanda and is second or third in pecking order in the tank. I just figured I'd give you my experience with my Jake. They are beautiful fish and I have no doubt you'll probably get full color from yours with this stock list. 13razorbackfan do you think this will prevent a more mellow Peacock like the Flametail from coloring up down the road?


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## B.Roberson

did you get all yours at the same time fishing12? were they all the same size? Juvies? just questions..


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## B.Roberson

yup. just like i thought. 9 pm nitrite 0  
redosed amm 1-2. here we go again. :dancing:


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## 13razorbackfan

fishing12 said:


> I think you have a good stock list. The only one I might watch out for is the Lemon Jake. Mine is very aggressive and beats on my Red Top Lawanda and is second or third in pecking order in the tank. I just figured I'd give you my experience with my Jake. They are beautiful fish and I have no doubt you'll probably get full color from yours with this stock list. 13razorbackfan do you think this will prevent a more mellow Peacock like the Flametail from coloring up down the road?


Maybe as it really depends on how the jake reacts towards him.


----------



## B.Roberson

some ngara are red body. not so much yellow. hmm i wont know till later


----------



## DJRansome

A lot of fish can prevent a Ngara from coloring up...it is a pretty timid peacock. Worth a try, mine finally colored, but I don't have any jakes in my tank.


----------



## fishing12

DJRansome said:


> A lot of fish can prevent a Ngara from coloring up...it is a pretty timid peacock. Worth a try, mine finally colored, but I don't have any jakes in my tank.


I have a little male in my tank. He is doing well but is not close to maturing so maybe the larger fish dont perceive him as a threat yet. Maybe I will get lucky with him one day and get some color. Its almost like buying a lottery ticket not likely to happen but you never know.


----------



## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> did you get all yours at the same time fishing12? were they all the same size? Juvies? just questions..


I had the Fryeri, Sunshine,Jake,Taiwan Reef,Koningsi and Phenochilus transfer over from my 72 gallon tank when I set up the 180. They were anywhere from 3-4" and showing color or starting before the tank switch. All of my other stock were Juvies added from site vendor and its been great watching them grow and change. Your going to be having a lot of fun shortly!


----------



## B.Roberson

im sure hoping so! it is fun watching my mbuna grow also. they grow fast man!! especially my blue cobalt. they arte beautiful. 
even the rusty grew pretty fast. they have outgrown all my female yellow labs. and i put them in 6 mo later.


----------



## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> im sure hoping so! it is fun watching my mbuna grow also. they grow fast man!! especially my blue cobalt. they arte beautiful.
> even the rusty grew pretty fast. they have outgrown all my female yellow labs. and i put them in 6 mo later.


Thats awesome! I love the Blue Cobalts! I had Mbuna about 10 years ago, some Zebras,Auratus with a mix of Tangs of all things but had no clue what i was doing (still dont lol) with them but they survived nicely and spawned consistently. When I set up the 180 I had to have a couple of Mbuna in the mix and glad I added them. My Yellow lab adds a lot of color and I think its a great specimen beautiful black with that yellow. I like the interaction between the Lab and the blue dolphin manda, they dont get along but it never gets to a point where its a concern, just interesting posturing and occasional quick lip locks.


----------



## B.Roberson

hey on a side note, just curios how your cycle went on the 180. when you dosed amm, how long before it was gone and how long did you notice the nitrite going after the amm was gone? im curious because im test happy (just to see) . when i added amm last nite, this morning it was still .5 ish maybe a little higher. nitrite was already 1-2. so usually lately my amm is gone in that first 24 hrs as it will be today ,but my nitrite is still hanging around a full 24-36 hrs after the amm dose. im hoping today that nitrite starts dropping faster as everything i read and people say it should drop suddenly!! im just not seeing that  i want to see that amm/nitrite drop in that 24 hr range, then i KNOW i have enough bacteria.


----------



## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> hey on a side note, just curios how your cycle went on the 180. when you dosed amm, how long before it was gone and how long did you notice the nitrite going after the amm was gone? im curious because im test happy (just to see) . when i added amm last nite, this morning it was still .5 ish maybe a little higher. nitrite was already 1-2. so usually lately my amm is gone in that first 24 hrs as it will be today ,but my nitrite is still hanging around a full 24-36 hrs after the amm dose. im hoping today that nitrite starts dropping faster as everything i read and people say it should drop suddenly!! im just not seeing that  i want to see that amm/nitrite drop in that 24 hr range, then i KNOW i have enough bacteria.


I documented the whole thing on the "180 Getting Ready" thread, your case is the exact reason I kept posting it so someone could go back and check it out and see how my tank setup with the cycle but I guess all tank are different. I just remember being at your point with ammonia gone and Nitrites dropping slowly and then all at once both were gone within 24 hrs. like someone hit a switch.


----------



## B.Roberson

yes. *** read your post several times. 
mostly just jealous u got a 180  
aaarrrggghhh i know itll happen, its just when,. hoping today or tomorrow would be nice


----------



## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> yes. I've read your post several times.
> mostly just jealous u got a 180
> aaarrrggghhh i know itll happen, its just when,. hoping today or tomorrow would be nice


Funny how you like the 180 and Im wishing I had an 8' tank Tank envy lol!

Keep the faith, its a long process but at least its being done properly.


----------



## B.Roberson

lol lol :lol: 
i know what you mean. But ,i am very happy with what i got. 2 side by side in my mancave/family room. 75 gal and 90. 
i can get two different tank setups and watch from my couch the fish interacting. cant wait to get fish in this 90. it will be a joy.
its is replacing a community 30 gal that had a couple angels and loaches tht i re homed. i am actually thinking of setting it back up in the office upstairs, but i only go in there to pay bills and such, so they would be lonely in my eyes  . i think im just going to keep my 10 gal for emergency set up. time out/hosptal.


----------



## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> lol lol :lol:
> i know what you mean. But ,i am very happy with what i got. 2 side by side in my mancave/family room. 75 gal and 90.
> i can get two different tank setups and watch from my couch the fish interacting. cant wait to get fish in this 90. it will be a joy.
> its is replacing a community 30 gal that had a couple angels and loaches tht i re homed. i am actually thinking of setting it back up in the office upstairs, but i only go in there to pay bills and such, so they would be lonely in my eyes  . i think im just going to keep my 10 gal for emergency set up. time out/hosptal.


Sounds nice, my tank is in my home office/man cave/destresser/time out from wife etc location, that is redundant, man cave sums that up. Your setup is cool having both side by side. Im actually going to get a ten gallon set up as well for such emergency purposes that happen. It is a relaxing hobby for the most part.


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## B.Roberson

yep.... and again :-? amm 0... nitrite STILL 1-2 nitrite is STILL 1-2 after 24 hours. STILL 1-2 after 24 hours.. Still 1-2 after 24 hours. nitrite is STILL 1-2 after 24 hours. gosh golly gee//???????? :roll:


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> yep.... and again :-? amm 0... nitrite STILL 1-2 nitrite is STILL 1-2 after 24 hours. STILL 1-2 after 24 hours.. Still 1-2 after 24 hours. nitrite is STILL 1-2 after 24 hours. gosh golly gee//???????? :roll:


I wouldn't add any more ammonia. Did you order your fish? If so then wait till nitrite is zero then do a water change and add the fish.


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## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> yep.... and again :-? amm 0... nitrite STILL 1-2 nitrite is STILL 1-2 after 24 hours. STILL 1-2 after 24 hours.. Still 1-2 after 24 hours. nitrite is STILL 1-2 after 24 hours. gosh golly gee//???????? :roll:


Thats it! Start all over! This is unacceptable! I know your not finding this funny, hang in there if you get real impatient add some Nutrafin Cycle. Well see what someone with more experience thinks but it seemed to speed up my cycle process. 13razorbackfan what do you think about that or is patience a better way to go at this point for him?


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## 13razorbackfan

fishing12 said:


> B.Roberson said:
> 
> 
> 
> yep.... and again :-? amm 0... nitrite STILL 1-2 nitrite is STILL 1-2 after 24 hours. STILL 1-2 after 24 hours.. Still 1-2 after 24 hours. nitrite is STILL 1-2 after 24 hours. gosh golly gee//???????? :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats it! Start all over! This is unacceptable! I know your not finding this funny, hang in there if you get real impatient add some Nutrafin Cycle. Well see what someone with more experience thinks but it seemed to speed up my cycle process. 13razorbackfan what do you think about that or is patience a better way to go at this point for him?
Click to expand...

I have never really had much success with those products although some have. I have used them a couple times but find it easier just to seed from a cycled filter media.


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## B.Roberson

Yes.fish come Tues.this morning nitrite was .25-.5. It will be 0 when I get home from work. So ,yest I did a PWC only to start getting my temp down. It has been 86-87. So PWC to get it down a little for fish. Now I would have time to dose 1 more time tonight? Should I? The way its going dose amm tonight, Saturday night or Sunday morning I should have no nitrite again ..hopefully sooner. I could a large WC Monday .fish Tues. Now IF I still have these nitrites after adding fish (I will monitor) should I do daily small WC ?? Km hoping I don't.


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## ratbones86

So sorry off I didn't catch this in the earlier posts but what was your final stock list?


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> Yes.fish come Tues.this morning nitrite was .25-.5. It will be 0 when I get home from work. So ,yest I did a PWC only to start getting my temp down. It has been 86-87. So PWC to get it down a little for fish. Now I would have time to dose 1 more time tonight? Should I? The way its going dose amm tonight, Saturday night or Sunday morning I should have no nitrite again ..hopefully sooner. I could a large WC Monday .fish Tues. Now IF I still have these nitrites after adding fish (I will monitor) should I do daily small WC ?? Km hoping I don't.


You can add the ammonia tonight then test again on monday. As a matter of fact I would add the ammonia tonight, wait till monday afternoon before you test again. I would not even bother testing before monday afternoon.


----------



## B.Roberson

Ratbones86
copa borleyi mbenji
plac deep water
prom steveni taiwan reef
tram sp. intermedius
azereus
baenschi flavescent
german red
ngara flametail
lemon jake
otoph zimbawae rock lithobate
syno spotted hybrid catfish


----------



## B.Roberson

OK. Thanks 13razorbackfan. I will dose amm.tonite and test and huge WC Monday.what about if I still see nitrite after adding fish? This is scaring me?


----------



## DJRansome

You will have to do daily water changes to keep nitrite under 0.25 and the fish still may show some distress. Let's hope that does not happen.

Always less scary to wait until you have nitrite=0 for more than one day before ordering.


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## ratbones86

kool gonna be a good looking tank


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> OK. Thanks 13razorbackfan. I will dose amm.tonite and test and huge WC Monday.what about if I still see nitrite after adding fish? This is scaring me?


Then you will need to do as DJ mentions and do water changes to keep it as close to zero as possible. What you need to do is inspect the fish once you receive them and then leave lights off and no feedings for 24hrs. The next day test your parameters. If all ok then feed just a a little. I mean a very little. Wait 24-48hrs and test again. If after that you get some nitrites then do water changes and how large is dependent on the readings. Hopefully they will be zero.

Right now you are converting to zero in how many hours? 30? 36?


----------



## B.Roberson

About 30-36.hours. second dose was like 30. 3rd dose day and a half.4th dose 36 hrs plus.


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> About 30-36.hours. second dose was like 30. 3rd dose day and a half.4th dose 36 hrs plus.


Without going back through the entire thread when you check the ammonia a hour or so after you dose are you getting 1-2ppm readings?


----------



## B.Roberson

Yes. And the amm is gone in 24 hours just not nitrite. It wants to hang out for a bit..


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> Yes. And the amm is gone in 24 hours just not nitrite. It wants to hang out for a bit..


Okey dokey.


----------



## B.Roberson

yep.nitrite gone.  yipee. i redosed to 1-2. let the games begin


----------



## B.Roberson

well, i cant just sit here and not know whats going on with this water.. i dosed amm last night @ 5:30. this morning it was .25-.5. so most converted just overnight. My nitrite was of course was 3 or so. lets hope the nitrite catches up today and most or all is gone in that first 24 hours.. I have to work so will let you know when i get home :-?


----------



## B.Roberson

fishing 12 *** read and reread your 180 getting ready over and over and it seemed your nitrites were also doing the 36-48 hr rule. but then u also added a seeded filter. but i think i didnt mention that last sunday when i did a wc on my 75 i moved my ENTIRE xp3 to the 90. i have a xp3 and ac110 on the 75, so with all the bb in the 75 media and substrate/rock i knew it wouldnt cause a problem. and i was right. NEVER saw a amm/nitrite spike.,,/ but a whole seeded filter was added a week ago and i still cant convert nitrite in 24 hours. come on man??????.. i came home today, amm was gone by morn before i left for work, from last nite dose, but nitrite still 2-4? who knows. gosh darnnnnnnnnnnn :-?


----------



## B.Roberson

i dont blame you folks for giving up on this post. its been a way tooo long cycle . so i will leave you here and hope things go well. i have a good idea what to do. I will post if any problems, thanx all.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> i dont blame you folks for giving up on this post. its been a way tooo long cycle . so i will leave you here and hope things go well. i have a good idea what to do. I will post if any problems, thanx all.


Not giving up.....been sick all day today, went out and made it even worse. 

Just keep doing what you are doing. It will finish the cycle. You are practically there at 30hrs or so conversion.


----------



## B.Roberson

dang. sorry razr. Prolly cuz there is no **** football yet!!. I have Nevr been sick during football season.... cant afford it lol  .


----------



## B.Roberson

let me ask a scientific question. How much? if you know,amm will mt 10 juvi fish im planning on putting in produce> i know it dpends on feeding also.
im just asking if this nitrite doesnt drop like right now, its taking its sweet time. 30-36 hrs.even tonite i just checked, it was 30 hrs at 9 pm .still 1-2. idk i wont check till morning so i wont know how fast the drop between that time.last dose nitrite dropped in about 36,. but if those fish dont produce the 2ppm amm that im dosing i MIGHT have a chance for this stuff to catch up even after adding fish.? It is a 90 gal. 10 ,2"-3" fish is not alot to what *** been dosing do you think?. well actually thats 30" of fish so idk???


----------



## B.Roberson

so i read, if i add fish at least make sure my amm is 0. well duh? i realize that. and i know that my nitrite will be also when i do,,, but its not dropping like i want.yet.. i have till tuesday.. praying a miracle.. but i read (if) i add fish with 0 amm, and nitrites rise , do daily wc, so should i simulate that? my amm is 0 now but still have nitrite? , should i do a wc to help lower that nitrite? im just throwing questions.? i just need to help it get going and only time is against me now :x


----------



## B.Roberson

so fri pm i redosed amm, sat am it was 0. nitrite was 2-3. sat pm nitrite still 1-2. this am sunday nitrite still .25-.5. :x 
this IS unacceptable. i cannot put fish in this tank if i have nitrites over 24 hours right?? i sent an email to the supplier to see if i can get a saturday delivery. i havnt heard yet.
so serious question? if the by product of amm is nitrite, and amm is gone in less than a day, how can nitrite also do the same? if the bacteria that eats amm makes nitrite in 24 hours the nitrite wouldnt be present until that converts right? or does the nitrite also get converted at the same time ,so instantly as amm so thet you dont get or see any nitrite while the amm is being converted??.
Im just trying to understand this more, i know i ultimately want no amm & nitrites in 24, so another question? does keep adding amm build MORE bacteria?or does it just keep it fed? do i HAVE all the good AMM eating bacteria or does adding more amm make more bacteria? or does all the good bacteria just keep building until it gets somewhre where it doesnt go any higher? if i can delay my fish delivery, what im asking is do I want to keep adding amm for a few more times to get MORE good bacteria or will this nitrite drop just happen on its own without adding more amm? adding more amm just keeps it fed until i add fish??
I think im just concerned now i lost sight ofeverything *** read and am overthinking things. and i know nitrite drop is slower than amm, i have to go back and look to see when my amm dropped in 24.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

Two different types of bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrite then to nitrate. So nitrosomonas bacteria convert ammonia and the nitrospira bacteria convert the nitrite. Usually takes a couple weeks each for both bacteria to reach maturity and population levels capable to converting both in 24hrs. So around a month total but there are so many other factors it is hard to say if it is a month or 3 weeks or 6 weeks. You just have to keep being patient. You are converting fast enough that by this weekend you should be there. Even if you are not you can always monitor, feed light and do a couple water changes. Here is a good read:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cycling.php

There are other good reads in the Dr. Tim section that gets into specifics. I would definitely recommend reading those threads over there. One is a thread I started and should be very informative.


----------



## B.Roberson

Thanx Razr. I really hope your feeling better!  and yes *** read that. so i went back, and found I 1st dose amm 14 mar. april 6 was the first drop of amm in 24 hours. nitrite was then taking 2-3 days. now still after 3 weeks nitrite is taking 36-48 hours . so the 14th to the 6th 3 weeks, 6th to the 21st 3 weeks. so i sure hope i'm close. well i havnt heard from my supplier yet, i checked nitrite about 3pm. it was nil to none. less than .25. i went ahead and redosed amm. my hope is ,well I know amm will be gone by monday morning, and hope nitrite will be so close to 0 by monday evening or tuesday morn.. If fish delivery isn't changed then i will do a large wc tues morning. fish will arrive, and i can acclimate.
thoughts on that? ... now, IF I get a message that my delivery can be delayed to saturday then that gives me that much more time. so does the bacteria keep building every time you add amm?? or does it just stay steady for the amm you have ?/


----------



## 13razorbackfan

If the bacteria run out of ammonia and nitrite they will just lie dormant and stop multiplying. They need oxygen and a ammonia/nitrite to manufacture their own food and to continue multiplying otherwise they just go dormant.


----------



## B.Roberson

ok,thanks. so back a few posts. about 2-2 1/2 weeks ago, i moved my entire xp3 filter from my 75to the 90, i did a swap. it has plenty of bacteria. i thoought that would do the trick. .Not so fast. 
last weekend i put the blue/white pad from my ac 110 that was filthy in the other xp3 on my 90. ithought that would do the trick, i mean eat up all amm and nitrite by then. i mean my 75 has no nitrite or amm ..trust me *** tested.. today, i took half of the ceramic rings of the ac110 in the 75 and put i and put it the other xp3on my 90. I have 2 xp3 on the 90. i'm really hoping and dont undrestand why all this media i have moved in weeks havnt cycled this dang tank yet. other people would have just moved a filter and added fish, but here i am with still nitrites, so yeah i am a little bummed. dont make sense to me.


----------



## 13razorbackfan

Timeout....

Which tank are you cycling? I though it was a 75g. Is it a 90g?

If you are moving media around constantly the filters are going to have a hard time establishing colonies of bacteria. You really only want to seed the filter and then go from there. Moving media around from filter to filter could easily be delaying things as you are disrupting the equilibrium created by the existing bacteria.

Can you explain exactly what filters you have on your 90g and what filters you have on your 75g?


----------



## B.Roberson

yes, im cycling a 90. the 75 has been running for a few years. what i was saying was initially i set up the 90 with minimal media. added fish, they died. so started fishless cycle adding amm. in the mean time i have added some media here and there from my established 75 gal , not stealing so much to put it in a cycle, *** tested water parameters. does that make sense?


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## 13razorbackfan

Yeah...I understand so far. What filters do you have on the 90g and how much media are you using?


----------



## Deeda

It would be preferable to hold off on your fish delivery if possible.

There is NO definite timeframe for the length of time it takes for the nitrite portion of the cycle to drop to Zero.

What is the current temperature of the tank during the cycling process? Last time I saw you post it, it was around 87°F.


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## B.Roberson

13razorbackfan. 2 xp 3 on the 90. only 1/3 rd media of ceramic rings from the established filter,ac110 and a pad from the other filter ,xp3 into the filters on the 90.
Deeda. i have asked/ vm and email to delay the delivery. i am anticipating delivery,tues until otherwise notified, so i will do the best i can. wc as necessary i guess. i am hoping that they will hold delivery untill saturday but havnt heard from them yet. my nitrites are dropping, just not at the rate i was anticipating. I sure hope i am close though... temp is still 83 right now.


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## 13razorbackfan

Are the trays full of ceramic media other than the trays with the mechanical media? You have had both these filters on the 90g from the get go? Only thing I can say for sure is to continue to be patient. Like I have mentioned before every tank is different and there are just too many variables to know for sure how long it will take. As I mentioned I think you are close but hard to say exactly when. If you are converting everything within 30hrs or so then you are almost there. You just need to be patient. It wouldn't surprise me to see it convert in 24hrs starting tomorrow. It wouldn't surprise me if it was this time next week.

I know this seems like it has been forever but sometimes it takes a while. You just have to remain patient. If your fish are already on their way then we can deal with that once that happens.


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## B.Roberson

yes, both xp are full of ceramic medai in the middle tray of each. both filters are stuffed with the designed foam pads on bottom. 2 in each filter, not the 1 they ship with. ceramic in the middle and fine on top. 1 filter was running since day 1 and the other was about a week and a half after. i did put media in the first filter from day 1 just not that much. the last week or so i stuck some media from the established filters of my 75 gal in the 90 to what i thought was helping kick the cycle going... and thats where i am. so yeah, i like your idea of being close, i like it but will see it when it happens. i truley thought when i saw the nitrite gone the 2nd or 3rd time it was just a matter of days. my bad..


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## fishing12

If you cant cancel the fish order for Tuesday I still think it is worth a shot of Nutrafin Cycle. I dont think it will hurt anything. :-?


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## B.Roberson

i tried cycle at the begining. im gonna take my chances with the pure amm. but thanks fishing12.


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## B.Roberson

Quickly.my supplier is allowing a sat delivery so I have another week. last note dosed amm, this morning it was 0. Let's hope nitrite drops quickly.


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## fishing12

opcorn: Any Updates?


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## B.Roberson

hmmf. opcorn: 
hang on i gotta go refill my popcorn..

redosed amm yest at 5pm., nitrite today at 5pm is .25-.5. so there you go


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## 13razorbackfan

Recheck again in at 8pm and if at zero dose again.


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## B.Roberson

i was waiting for your resposne 13razorback. omg thanks, now, since i cant change fish again, coming saturday. yes i think nitrite will be 0 by bedtime. . i can redose amm. Nitrite SHOULD be 0 by friday night midnight or sooner, its still hanging on to 30 hrs give or take.so sat morning huge wc and wait for fish. feed VERY lightyly, i wont for first day, and keep lights off i know. i got mail fish before. but then check nitrite daily? and wc as necesarry to hold down nitrite if i see it?? i know amm will drop, it is in 12 hrs already...


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> i was waiting for your resposne 13razorback. omg thanks, now, since i cant change fish again, coming saturday. yes i think nitrite will be 0 by bedtime. . i can redose amm. Nitrite SHOULD be 0 by friday night midnight or sooner, its still hanging on to 30 hrs give or take.so sat morning huge wc and wait for fish. feed VERY lightyly, i wont for first day, and keep lights off i know. i got mail fish before. but then check nitrite daily? and wc as necesarry to hold down nitrite if i see it?? i know amm will drop, it is in 12 hrs already...


Yes....don't feed for first couple days....as long as they look healthy and no really sunken belly's you will be fine. Check nitrite daily for first week. If it stays zero even after you start feeding lightly go ahead and do a water change after 7 days, about 75% or so, then start feeding a little more. Just to give you an idea I only feed my fish 5 days out of the week. I don't feed the first day after a water change or the day before a water change. I do feed them the day of the water change so I can siphon out any leftover floating food particles out of the water. So in reality I only feed my fish 4 out of 7 days as far as my filters are concerned. This allows me to go longer in between cleanings.


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## 13razorbackfan

Oh...and be sure to do a large water change before you put the fish in the tank.


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## B.Roberson

yep, i will do. so i still have this cobwebby ,peach fuzz like algae on my bg and rocks. it is very clear and hard to see unless you get in the right light. is it ok for my fish?


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## 13razorbackfan

B.Roberson said:


> yep, i will do. so i still have this cobwebby ,peach fuzz like algae on my bg and rocks. it is very clear and hard to see unless you get in the right light. is it ok for my fish?


Yeah.....do you have a BN pleco coming?


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## B.Roberson

Yep. And a spotted catfish


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## B.Roberson

fish are here, its do or die!!  hopefully not the later. nitrite was 0 after yesterday so did a huge wc last nite. 90-95%. nitrate was still 20-30. so this morning early i did a 50%. everything was 0. well nitrate was maybe .5. temp is 80.. im praying hard!!!!! :roll:


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## 13razorbackfan

I would wait 24-48hrs then test.


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## B.Roberson

fish are in. all kinda hanging out on one end of tank. venturing a little. well my catfish and german red feel right at home. sifting the sand and eating the algae.


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## B.Roberson

i have still not seen ANY amm or nitrite after adding fish. I guess thats good. i questioned earlier if there was any way to tell how much amm fish produce?? 
i think it depends on feeding also.. BUT do fish produce amm without feeding them??? or only the byproduct of feeding. Why ,as we are cycling with 1-2ppm amm, when that converts its gone, but when i added fish i saw no amm,so i deducted it wasnt even near the amount of amm i was adding to the tank.. SOund right?? idk. maybe a stupid question..


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## 13razorbackfan

Small amounts because they were likely not fed the day before shipping, then no food during shipping, no food 24hrs after arrival, and you have only fed sparingly. Your bacteria is converting really fast because the load right now is nowhere near 2ppm cumulative over 24hrs. So you are good to go. I would start increasing your feedings but still only once a day. All your fish are good size so no need to feed more than once a day or small amounts twice a day.


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## B.Roberson

hey 13razorbackfan. do you know what those little spotted fish are swimming around in this video? there are several of them.


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## ravencrow06

they are nimbochromis venustus


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## B.Roberson

thank you.


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## ratbones86

you have a video of this tank now that you have them?


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## B.Roberson




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## 13razorbackfan

Just wait till that Intermedius starts to color. If you think he looks good now just hold on to your trowsers!!! These are very good quality specimens and the coloration on mine is out of the world. Mine started off looking like yours and after about 5 months he really started to pop. They have big appetites as well.


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## B.Roberson

well bad news razor. 2 days ago that intermedius got a bulge on 1 side. i had setup A 10 gal hosp tank when i started the 90 so i put him in there. i posted on the illness section,djronsome said it shouldnt have even been there. well, i think he said he hadnt had any luck and would not put them in a all male tank. any rate, he went into the 10 gal tues eve,i thought it was bloat,but only had his response so idk,.. i treated with a med my lfs had, it wasnt clout,they dont stock it. it was a "general cure" it said for parasites ,swollen belly etc. but sadly he is gone today. 
all my other fish seem fine, idk, im going to keep a nervous eye on them....


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## fishing12

Sorry to hear about your bad luck!

My Intermedius seems to be holding his own just fine in the all male setup. Did you notice anything wrong or suspect anything when you added the fish? Whats your plan moving forward, are you going to replace it with another one or try something else?


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## B.Roberson

If you would post your list again here? Lethrinops in general are unhappy in an all-male tank is what DjRansome said.
timbo, I would stay away from lethrinops in any all-male tank. I had one in my all-male with only peaceful haps and peacocks and he was healthy but virtually colorless.
so im at a loss. i dont know? any sugestions??
sorry i dont know how to use this quote thing to show what people said


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## fishing12

B.Roberson said:


> If you would post your list again here? Lethrinops in general are unhappy in an all-male tank is what DjRansome said.
> timbo, I would stay away from lethrinops in any all-male tank. I had one in my all-male with only peaceful haps and peacocks and he was healthy but virtually colorless.
> so im at a loss. i dont know? any sugestions??
> sorry i dont know how to use this quote thing to show what people said


My Current stock list.
Dont forget this is a 6' tank so a lot of these probably wont be good for your setup. Maybe check into the Naveochromis chrysogaster mine is showing some great colors and seems pretty neutral in the tank except scrapping consistently with my Rostratus. Pretty fish! In the future as some of these guys in my tank get bigger I may have to thin the herd but I can remove any colorless fish at that point but Im a ways off from that.

Chilotilapia rhoadesii
Protomelas hertae
Nimbochromis venustus
Metriaclima sp. Blue Dolphin Manda
Tramitichromis Intermedius 
Placidochromis Electra
Aristochromis christyi
Cyrtocara Moorii
Protomelas taeniolatus (Red)- 
Fossorochromis rostratus
Otopharynx lithobates
Nimbochromis polystigma
Yellow lab 
Exochochromis anagenys 
Sciaenochromis fryeri 
Aulonocara sp. "Stuartgranti Maleri"
Aulonocara koningsi
Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Undu Reef)
Naveochromis chrysogaster
Placidochromis sp. "Phenochilus Tanzania"
Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" (Taiwan Reef),
Aulonocara "German Red"
Aulonocara gertrudae ( Surprisingly Coloring up real nice)
Aulonocara sp. "Lwanda"


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## B.Roberson

since my intermedius passed, i also had to put my Borleyi in my 10 gal for a timeout. its been 2 weeks. He was very dominant within the first week, but is also the Larger fish by 1" plus. Im hoping to put him back in a couple weeks to see how it goes.. so my question,can i put a sole Male yellow Lab Carelous in here?? for color?


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