# HELP! Hardscaping difficulties..



## hmp1993 (Apr 16, 2013)

Hey guys!

It's time to upgrade my beloved Africans to a 55. I bought 100 pounds of river rock yesterday at my local landscape supply, however I'm having a few issues:

1. I'm finding it extremely difficult to stack, and I want to avoid glueing as much as possible so I can rearrange if need be. Very worried about rocks falling and failing my tank walls. I don't want to have a flat hardscape and leave the top half of the tank underutilized.

2. Maybe river rock isn't the best due to its weight (100 lbs isn't nearly enough for the 55, worried about structural integrity and of course price) and limited stacking abilities? Anyone have better suggestions to keep them happy with as many caves as their little hearts desire? I don't really like the look of slate or sandstone, and I'm having no luck finding lace rock for a doable price around Southwest Florida (suggestions?).

3. Does anyone have any negative things to say about lava rock or green glacier rock?

Your input is greatly appreciated!!


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

When I used river rock, I found it best to add the rock in a haphazard manner. Don't try to make structures or caves, just add the rock and let them rest where they rest. Make sure the first layer is buried in the sand or gravel so that it's resting on the glass bottom of the tank. This will eliminate any toppling by the fish digging underneath the rocks. I used quite a lot of rock...it was a pain to remove when I needed to net a fish. I've since switched to larger, fewer rocks, pic link in sig.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

well my understanding is that a tank can stand as much as you want to put in them. of coarse make sure you start off with the biggest at the bottom,and make sure there is no sand underneath.
if you have mbuna then their going to dig, so you don't want your rocks falling over.

if you get various sizes of river rock then you should'nt have a problem stacking them. my wife is using them for painting into all sorts of animals and things, but anyway when we get them home i play games with stacking them to see how
high they can get in a solid pile.

and i don't suggest you glue or silicone them,coz at some stage you will want to remove, as in catching the holding mum etc.

wow you'd be supprised, what you can achieve, but remember to have many different sizes :thumb:


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

If you want to find rocks at a decent price, it's usually best to go with something that is local to your area. For example in my 240G I am using what is sold around here under the term 'Ohio Top Rock' - basically the cheapest product you find at landscaping supplies around here. It's a fairly flat sandstone that can be stacked much better than river rocks, which are round. Lava rock can have fairly sharp edges, so you want to watch out for that. Green Glacier Rock sounds pretty snazzy to me! I'd give that a closer look. Any photos?









_Background made from Ohio Top Rock_


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## hmp1993 (Apr 16, 2013)

GTZ said:


> When I used river rock, I found it best to add the rock in a haphazard manner. Don't try to make structures or caves, just add the rock and let them rest where they rest. Make sure the first layer is buried in the sand or gravel so that it's resting on the glass bottom of the tank. This will eliminate any toppling by the fish digging underneath the rocks. I used quite a lot of rock...it was a pain to remove when I needed to net a fish. I've since switched to larger, fewer rocks, pic link in sig.


Oh wow, that looks really nice. Are your new, larger rocks river rock as well? Pictures? 
Thanks


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## hmp1993 (Apr 16, 2013)

ozman- thanks! That's the general consensus I've been reading, starting to not really be worried about how much the tank can hold anymore. But you're about burying some of the rocks, I was going to try and put down a layer of eggcrate as well.

fmueller- Thanks for the advice! Yeah, I worried about the sharpness of the lava rock as well, same thing with the feather rock I was looking at. This is the best picture I could find of the glacier rock online. It has a gorgeous green, almost crystalline appearance and has very interesting shapes. I have my eye on two large tower-like pieces of it to use as a primary and secondary focal point, and was planning to surround them with the river rock. Also picked up some jade stones to scatter around to draw a connection between the roundness of the river rock and the green hue in the glacier.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

hmp1993 said:


> ozman- thanks! That's the general consensus I've been reading, starting to not really be worried about how much the tank can hold anymore. But you're about burying some of the rocks, I was going to try and put down a layer of eggcrate as well.


hi my point is not to bury rocks but to make sure they have solid contact with the base of the tank. if you want to use eggcrate, its the same thing, make sure your rocks are firmly based as any sand may cause havoc when mbuna start to dig and re-arrange the sand the way they like it :wink:


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Those green rocks look awesome. Especially if you can get some big, focal-point pieces, I'd certainly give them a try. They seem hard and quartz-like and shouldn't leach anything in the water. That said, one wonders what causes the green color - copper? If so, the rocks would be a total no-no for any reef setup, but should be ok for a cichlid tank. Might actually keep the snails away


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

hmp1993 said:


> GTZ said:
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> 
> > When I used river rock, I found it best to add the rock in a haphazard manner. Don't try to make structures or caves, just add the rock and let them rest where they rest. Make sure the first layer is buried in the sand or gravel so that it's resting on the glass bottom of the tank. This will eliminate any toppling by the fish digging underneath the rocks. I used quite a lot of rock...it was a pain to remove when I needed to net a fish. I've since switched to larger, fewer rocks, pic link in sig.
> ...


Drainage ditch rocks.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

@ fmueller:

PM me.....

What did you use to secure those rocks to the back? I always thought that was a 3d background on your 240g.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

@ fmueller:

Awesome background!


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Thanks for the compliments. Don't want to derail this thread, but details of how my background was put together are on this page.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

hmp1993 said:


> ozman- thanks! That's the general consensus I've been reading, starting to not really be worried about how much the tank can hold anymore. But you're about burying some of the rocks, I was going to try and put down a layer of eggcrate as well.
> 
> fmueller- Thanks for the advice! Yeah, I worried about the sharpness of the lava rock as well, same thing with the feather rock I was looking at. This is the best picture I could find of the glacier rock online. It has a gorgeous green, almost crystalline appearance and has very interesting shapes. I have my eye on two large tower-like pieces of it to use as a primary and secondary focal point, and was planning to surround them with the river rock. Also picked up some jade stones to scatter around to draw a connection between the roundness of the river rock and the green hue in the glacier.


From an aesthetic standpoint most would recommend that you stay with "one" type of rock...the green glacier is absolutely beautiful. Can't wait to see a tank set up with it.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

cichlid-gal said:


> From an aesthetic standpoint most would recommend that you stay with "one" type of rock...the green glacier is absolutely beautiful. Can't wait to see a tank set up with it.


From what I can see, this is one type of rock - just a type that has a certain variability of color throughout a piece, and of course between pieces. You have a similar thing going in round river rocks, where you often find a wide range of colors. _De gustibus non est disputandum_, but I think most would find it too limiting to go with just one color within a given rock type. I just wouldn't mix round river rocks with this green glacier stuff, for example.


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## hmp1993 (Apr 16, 2013)

So appreciative of all the replies!

Yeah, I worried about mixing the river rock with the green glacier, I was gonna buy those two chunks and see how it looked in the set up, which is cool because I can return it if it looks too unnatural. I really love the glacier rock but I think it would be over kill to have just that?


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## hmp1993 (Apr 16, 2013)

GTZ said:


> hmp1993 said:
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Those rocks are awesome, love the way it looks in that really nice set up! Not sure what you mean by drainage ditch rock?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

It is rock they(cities, municipalities, road crews, etc) to hold up embankments, ditches, sides of hills along road ways and creeks, etc....I think most of it is just large chunks of limestone and other rocks like granite they break away and it found all across the country. I see a lot of it here in the south/mid west.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

13razorbackfan said:


> It is rock they(cities, municipalities, road crews, etc) to hold up embankments, ditches, sides of hills along road ways and creeks, etc....I think most of it is just large chunks of limestone and other rocks like granite they break away and it found all across the country. I see a lot of it here in the south/mid west.


When I was in the Landscape Business we used Rip Wrap and that is what that is. You are correct used for erosion control drainage etc. Never considered it for use in a tank but it doesnt look that bad, it actually looks pretty cool. Sometimes there is limestone in it but around the NJ area most of it is Granite. I think that green Glacier rock would be a cool background like fmueller did with his tank. Some white sand to go with it would make for a pretty bright tank.


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## NJmomie (Jan 17, 2013)

13razorbackfan said:


> It is rock they(cities, municipalities, road crews, etc) to hold up embankments, ditches, sides of hills along road ways and creeks, etc....I think most of it is just large chunks of limestone and other rocks like granite they break away and it found all across the country. I see a lot of it here in the south/mid west.


I see alot of these rocks in NJ also but I feel kinda funny stopping by the middle of the highway to pick them up. Maybe I'll have to make the kids do that one of these days...LOL


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

NJmomie said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > It is rock they(cities, municipalities, road crews, etc) to hold up embankments, ditches, sides of hills along road ways and creeks, etc....I think most of it is just large chunks of limestone and other rocks like granite they break away and it found all across the country. I see a lot of it here in the south/mid west.
> ...


Just be careful where you stop if you do, State Troopers may not like it and dangerous LOL! Could be an expensive rock in more ways than one


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## hmp1993 (Apr 16, 2013)

Haha, yeah it could be expensive in more ways than just one XD

Unfortunately here in Florida I haven't seen anything like that, or maybe I just haven't been looking for it? Will keep my eyes peeled for sure.

So just to be clear, in terms of avoiding poisonous rocks, there is a difference between avoiding metallic rocks and avoiding rocks with a sparkle to them?


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## NJmomie (Jan 17, 2013)

fishing12 said:


> Just be careful where you stop if you do, State Troopers may not like it and dangerous LOL! Could be an expensive rock in more ways than one


Hahahah, I was referring to small county highways and such, not the NJ Turnpike. Thank you for watching out for me (and the kids) though.
I have already admired these rocks from afar but never thought to use them and now that I see how they look in an aquarium, gets me thinking...


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

NJmomie said:


> fishing12 said:
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> > Just be careful where you stop if you do, State Troopers may not like it and dangerous LOL! Could be an expensive rock in more ways than one
> ...


If you use a landscape contractor ask him to pick up a bucket or two for you for being a good customer. Some of the local nurseries or hardscape supplies carry it as well. If its a wholesaler only type of place see if your Landscape contractor will let you use his name to buy from them. Safer than the TPike LOL!


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## Filet O Fish (Apr 26, 2012)

GTZ said:


> hmp1993 said:
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All right buster, you tell me just exactly how you get such perfect pictures of your tank!!!  No glare, the fish look like they're standing still....what's the big secret!?!?!

BTW, I think the hardscaping is great.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

hmp1993 said:


> Haha, yeah it could be expensive in more ways than just one XD
> 
> Unfortunately here in Florida I haven't seen anything like that, or maybe I just haven't been looking for it? Will keep my eyes peeled for sure.
> 
> So just to be clear, in terms of avoiding poisonous rocks, there is a difference between avoiding metallic rocks and avoiding rocks with a sparkle to them?


I'm not sure how to answer that. Im sure there have been countless posts on that issue, do a search and get a accurate answer from some better sources.


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## chiroken (Sep 25, 2007)

Love that set up. May go with very similar rocks, can be found where road crews are building culverts etc. Price is right :wink: My 300 will have black background as well, but with white sand. Love it!!!

As to our poster, agree with stacking them as they may, just give each a good wiggle to be sure they are stable. Stack the 1st rocks right on the glass or eggcrate. I would not glue/silicon, you'll want to move them just to change the look, catch a fish, or vacuum a spot that always collect detritus.



GTZ said:


> hmp1993 said:
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## hmp1993 (Apr 16, 2013)

Alright, so new development!

Going to return the river rock, instead I bought quite a few chunks of granite that look almost identical to the drainage ditch rocks (wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it was). It was 8 cents a pound as opposed to 46, so I'll save some money in that exchange. I also bought one large, 1 medium, and 1 small piece of green glacier rock and cut some egg crate to fit the bottom of the tank, stuff's gorgeous when it gets wet! Can't wait to get some pictures up for you guys!

Not sure what I'm doing for the back wall yet, I may just paint it black. Going to re-use my black and white aragAlive that the cichlids have now and add 10 pounds of black sand to darken it up.


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## hmp1993 (Apr 16, 2013)

fishing12 said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
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> 
> > It is rock they(cities, municipalities, road crews, etc) to hold up embankments, ditches, sides of hills along road ways and creeks, etc....I think most of it is just large chunks of limestone and other rocks like granite they break away and it found all across the country. I see a lot of it here in the south/mid west.
> ...


I agree, that would be awesome! The glacier rock tends to come in very thick pieces, so it would unfortunately not be doable as background  I wish it came in more sizes, I would have just filled the whole **** tank with it!


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Filet O Fish said:


> All right buster, you tell me just exactly how you get such perfect pictures of your tank!!!  No glare, the fish look like they're standing still....what's the big secret!?!?!


Shot with a Nikon D3100 using a tripod at about 2.5 meters, 18-55mm kit lens. f/5.6, 1/40 s, ISO 400 and no flash. There's some fish movement, I lowered the shutter speed to get a balance between letting as much light in as I could and keeping the motion to a minimum.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

GTZ said:


> Filet O Fish said:
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> > All right buster, you tell me just exactly how you get such perfect pictures of your tank!!!  No glare, the fish look like they're standing still....what's the big secret!?!?!
> ...


uhh, umm, daaaa, sounds like some kinda alien speak to me. :lol: geeze my camera is a basic point and click, other wise it ain't gonna happen :roll: 
sorry i gotta go now, me and homer simpson are goin for a few duff beers


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## Filet O Fish (Apr 26, 2012)

ozman said:


> GTZ said:
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I'll be joining you guys. :lol:

But seriously, nice photography.


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