# Mbuna Rockwork Options



## bpark83

Just wanted to get some opinions on some rockwork prototypes.

I'm upgrading from slate (current setup, shown below) to hopefully a more natural looking limestone rock scape in my 55g mbuna aquarium. 


Being that a 55g is so narrow (~12in) there's not a whole lot of room to work with to stack rocks, etc. I'm come up with a few prototype designs on a workbench.

Which one do you like? or should I go with a different idea?

Design A:



Design B:



Design C:



Thanks!!!


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## Michael_S

I like the top and middle ones. And is that red algae growing on the slate?


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## bpark83

Michael_S said:


> I like the top and middle ones. And is that red algae growing on the slate?


Thanks. I think I like the middle one, but it may not provide as many crevices/caves for them to hang out in. I was thinking I could eliminate the small rock pile on the left, and move the whole formation to the left, then build it up a little more on the far right side to provide more habitat.

That is red algae growing on the slate. Been on the piece on the left for a long time now. The piece on the right is newer, so the red algae is just starting to get established. I seem to get brown, then green, then red.

Thanks!


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## badspellar

I like all 3, but really like the practice set up concept. mucking around with rock inside your glass tank can be a booger bear. dang smart idea.


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## bpark83

badspellar said:


> I like all 3, but really like the practice set up concept. mucking around with rock inside your glass tank can be a booger bear. dang smart idea.


Yep! Especially in a narrow tank. One day i'd like to upgrade it to the 75-90g range. It would make aquascaping better.


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## Kalost

build caves not piles


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## Steve C

Nice looking rocks. I like #2 best, but I would say to maybe separate the rocks a bit more rather than have no gaps between them, and mix in the small rocks from the left with the main rocks. I guess best way to describe what I'm saying is to "open up" the rock work a bit so there's room for the fish to swim around, in & between the rocks.


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## bpark83

Steve C said:


> Nice looking rocks. I like #2 best, but I would say to maybe separate the rocks a bit more rather than have no gaps between them, and mix in the small rocks from the left with the main rocks. I guess best way to describe what I'm saying is to "open up" the rock work a bit so there's room for the fish to swim around, in & between the rocks.


I'll try that. Thanks!


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## Bowfront

Sorry but I really like the way your current setup looks.
.


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## bpark83

Steve, that was good advice.

I like this one the best, and this is what i'll be going with.

Has a lot more caves and crevices for the fish to use/swim through (even though it may not look it - its hard to see from the front view).


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## bpark83

Bowfront said:


> Sorry but I really like the way your current setup looks.
> .


Thanks!

Its not that I don't like it. I really like the "nature aquarium" look and wanted to try to mesh it with an African cichlid habitat.

The only downsides to the slate setup is they are mostly swim throughs, not caves, and lots more sharp edges fish could scratch themselves on.

The trick with the slate is to use landscape foam or silicone to put it together (landscape foam is stronger), and maintain the same orientation on all the pieces. When slate doesn't look good is when the rocks are tilted at all angles.


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## RangerRift

I like the last formation. Bunches of caves and crevices. I use the same "dry run" (literally) technique. Makes it SOOOO much easier!

Check out my setup with Texas holey rock. I've found that this type of rock is great in a smaller tank, because not only does it help buffer the water params, but it has built in caves, tunnels, and hidey holes, so you can get more with less!

Nice Job - looking forward to seeing it in your tank!


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## NJmomie

Design A is my pick. I love the look of those rocks.... they are called trap rocks in NJ.


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## Steve C

Latest set up look perfect to me :thumb: :thumb:


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## bpark83

NJmomie said:


> Design A is my pick. I love the look of those rocks.... they are called trap rocks in NJ.


The bigger sizes are referred to as rip rap here - used in drainage ditches, etc. We have a lot of limestone here in central PA. There are 5-6 quarries within a few miles of here.


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## JimA

bpark83 said:


> Steve, that was good advice.
> 
> I like this one the best, and this is what i'll be going with.
> 
> Has a lot more caves and crevices for the fish to use/swim through (even though it may not look it - its hard to see from the front view).


 Looks like a winner! I would still open up/remove a couple of the smaller rocks for more of a cove look at the base of the larger rocks. Overall 9 though :thumb: Be sure and post the final in the tank!


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## GTZ

bpark83 said:


> NJmomie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Design A is my pick. I love the look of those rocks.... they are called trap rocks in NJ.
> 
> 
> 
> The bigger sizes are referred to as rip rap here - used in drainage ditches, etc. We have a lot of limestone here in central PA. There are 5-6 quarries within a few miles of here.
Click to expand...

Rocks look familiar.


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## JimA

GTZ said:


> bpark83 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NJmomie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Design A is my pick. I love the look of those rocks.... they are called trap rocks in NJ.
> 
> 
> 
> The bigger sizes are referred to as rip rap here - used in drainage ditches, etc. We have a lot of limestone here in central PA. There are 5-6 quarries within a few miles of here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rocks look familiar.
Click to expand...

 I use them myself as well, great price! :wink:


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## bpark83

JimA said:


> bpark83 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve, that was good advice.
> 
> I like this one the best, and this is what i'll be going with.
> 
> Has a lot more caves and crevices for the fish to use/swim through (even though it may not look it - its hard to see from the front view).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a winner! I would still open up/remove a couple of the smaller rocks for more of a cove look at the base of the larger rocks. Overall 9 though :thumb: Be sure and post the final in the tank!
Click to expand...

Once its in the tank i'll play with the smaller rocks a bit. Doing a dry run locks down the positions and orientations of the medium/large rocks.

I'll be sure to post it! Not sure exactly how soon that will be. Need to find some time to do the switchover.


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## bpark83

Anyone think subdued blue backlighting would look really cool with this? I got the inspiration from reading Steve's 55g build.


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## Woundedyak

I really like the final design. Its amazing how O.C.D. we get with our rocks. Friends who don't understand think I'm nuts because I walk the river banks for hours looking for the perfect rocks. Im not a fan rip rap cause it's around every pond a drainage ditch in this state. But, I've seen some really cool tanks done with it and it does make Mbuna pop. Can't wait to see the finish product. As far as lighting? I say do what makes you feel the best about your setup. Those rocks,with a light colored sand, with a little backlight action = win


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## bpark83

Got some time to switch it over. Here it is. Let me know what you think!


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## Steve C

Looks good :thumb:


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## bpark83

Thanks!

I'm still thinking about doing the back light in the future, but want to make sure I pull it off right.


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## Woundedyak

Looks amazing! Since we are rock geeks, we appreciate other geeks opinion. The big rock on the right keeps pulling my eye up and to the right. Not sure if its disproportion or the fact it's leaning the other way. When you have chance, Lean it to the left. Also, point the very center rock towards the left and pop a pic. Again,this is just my opinion. If you are happy with it,leave it and tell me to go pound sand.


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## bpark83

Woundedyak said:


> Looks amazing! Since we are rock geeks, we appreciate other geeks opinion. The big rock on the right keeps pulling my eye up and to the right. Not sure if its disproportion or the fact it's leaning the other way. When you have chance, Lean it to the left. Also, point the very center rock towards the left and pop a pic. Again,this is just my opinion. If you are happy with it,leave it and tell me to go pound sand.


I appreciate the opinion. However, I was going for a look in which the center rock is vertical or near vertical, the rocks on the right are tilted to the right, and the rocks on the left are tilted left. Basically the mbuna version of these types of nature aquariums:




























I would essentially have to redo the entire rockwork to make your changes as well. However, what I will try is to use small to medium size rocks to tweak the scape around that large rock. Maybe building up to it a bit with some smaller rocks will make it look a bit more natural.

I will post up some better full tank photos later as well. I think they look a little better than the ones I posted.


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## JimA

I think it looks good, I have had a couple of tanks with a big feature rock in it. That being said some times a rock can be to big in a tank. In a 8ft tank it can work great, in a 4 or 5ft tank you can get to crowded. In the end it is still your tank, do what you want..


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## bpark83

Thanks :thumb:

Here's a couple photos from other angles:


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## Steve C

I'll weigh back in  I actually do see what Woundedyak is saying, BUT..IMO it draws your eye simply because thats the tallest rock, so it's going to do that no matter where it is unless you have another rock that size. And IMo when you do a 2nd rock that size then you have "Too much " symmetry (My other hobby is Bonsai trees if you can't tell and symmetry is a no-no in that) 

So I actually really like what you have. IMO it's perfect looking. BUT...that's just personal opinion is all.

Looks great to me though...and a blue backlite...thatd be awesome, not that I'm big on that or anything :wink:


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## bpark83

Thanks Steve. I tried to use the rule of thirds (roughly) here with the big rock and the 2 slanted ones opposite of it.

I'm into planting and landscaping, and have contemplated trying to get into bonsai before. Seems like fun.


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## oetheous

Awesome rock work. I love it!!


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## bpark83

I think one of my electric yellows got stuck in the rockwork. I don't know whether she was chased in or not.

Tuesday evening I couldn't find her, even inspecting the rockwork. I thought maybe she was holding or something, and would see her later on. Yesterday she was out swimming around and looked ROUGH. Some scales peeled up, a little bit of light bruising (red coloration) on her body, and several fins were shredded back quite a bit. She was really stressed yesterday. I checked her this morning and she seemed a little calmer at least (the light was off too).

I think she got stuck, but maybe feel victim to some aggression? Could the new rockwork change the "pecking order"? Even though the new rockwork doesn't go up as high in the tank on average, there are more cave-like areas since the past slate rockwork was all swim-throughs. I thought they would be happier if anything. Any ideas on it?


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## bpark83

It looks like its aggression - I don't think she's gonna make it. This one was caught picking on her. Any idea what he really is? He was sold as a "mixed mbuna". The light blue *horizontal* stripe is what's throwing me off.







What stumps me is that the aggression actually got WORSE after rearranging the rocks. Anyone have any ideas? Does this sort of thing just happen every once in a while with these fish? Kinda stumped here... :-?


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## Woundedyak

Changing rock work can go both ways. It can curb aggression or cause it. With the slate, you had a lot more area for them to swim through and "escape" around the corner. Now,not so much. With the new landscape, everyone is jocking for position. With Mbuna's, I always try to make a back door in every cave if that makes sense. I would do a cleaning and change the rock work again to see if that mellows things out. If not, time to start evicting.


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## bpark83

Thanks.

I think this is what he is:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=755

Added him to the tank last, so I didn't want a real mellow one (noticed he was no wimp in the LFS tank). Although I do have a manigano who puts him in his place.


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## bpark83

On another thought, I have 7 mbuna right now - which might be 6 soon.

Would having 10-12 curb aggression better? I could add a few at once, but I'd have to be careful what species I add. Maybe a couple more acei, since they swim more in the open water?


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## NJmomie

I forget how large your tank is... 
Anyway, 7 mbunas is probably part of the problem...need to add more (depending on the size of the tank). I have 8 saulosi in my 29-gallon tank (only 2 males) and they are a relatively calm species of mbuna.


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## bpark83

Its a standard 55g.


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## NJmomie

In my 55-gallon, I have 16 mbunas. I suggest getting more in there to spread aggression.


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## bpark83

NJmomie said:


> In my 55-gallon, I have 16 mbunas. I suggest getting more in there to spread aggression.


Gotcha, when you're overstocked, is it OK if they don't all have caves?

I was thinking maybe 2-3 more acei (have 2 now) and 3 more electric yellows (have 2 now, that one died last night). Hopefully none of the new introductions get picked on too much.

I'm also thinking of picking up some more medium sized rip rap and - without ruining the look of the aqua scape - making a couple more caves. I'll probably build up the 2 far ends of the tank a little.

I find the #3 limestone (the smaller stuff I used) is OK for breaking things up a little here and there, but you really cant build good sturdy caves with it.


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## NJmomie

I think you already have alot of rockwork in your tank, adding more would lessen its volume. They don't all need a cave. Caves are there to block the line of sight for the chaser. Most of the time, when the chaser do not see the chasee, he/she forgets about the chase (I hope that makes sense). Are the fish in the tank right now full grown? I find that it's harder to add new fish to a fully matured stock tank because the ranking order has already been set. If that is what you have to work with then it's best to change the tank setup (AGAIN...sorry) right before adding new fish so that everyone starts at square one. Turning off the light during this time is another suggestion to calm down the group. When I setup my 55-gallon, I bought 24 juveniles and had them grow up together. I lost a few and removed a few to end up with the current 16. The two largest males have taken over the two piles of rocks on opposite sides of the tank and everyone else just kind of move around them.


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## bpark83

Yep, they are all grown. When I first stocked, I had 10 or so and lost a couple. My two most aggressive are the chipokae and a manigano/johanni (can't really tell). They each seem to take one side of the tank. The chipokae never really singled out the electric yellow that he killed yesterday any other time. They must have been trying to claim the same territory when everything got put back together.

Would acei's have a better chance of surviving since they are open water swimmers?


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## NJmomie

Not sure if adding a bunch of acei will lessen the aggression for the maingano/johanni and/or chipokae. These are all harem fish and need their own groups to be happy. In my honest opinion, those three species you mentioned (besides the acei) are very aggressive fish and probably should be in a larger tank. I am only speaking out of what I have read...certain no expert here. Maybe moderators and others can chime in and give additional advice.


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## bpark83

I read into things a little more, I do have a maingano since he has been blue and black since I bought him. Johannis take a while to get that coloration and start out yellow as juveniles.

Since the maingano is less aggressive than the johanni, maybe just the chipokae needs to be relocated, so I can add stock of some more peaceful fish.


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## bpark83

Sometimes these fish are confusing...lol

I just saw my big acei go after the chipokae a few times.

There seems to be an awfully strange pecking order.


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## NJmomie

They are constantly jostling for position, probably pretty normal.


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## bpark83

Gave the Chipokae away and brought in some newcomers. The tank seems to be more lively once again. Here is a video:


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## bpark83

Any feedback, opinions, etc?


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## NJmomie

Love it. It looks apocalyptic!!!


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## bpark83

Thanks!


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## B.Roberson

i like all the rock work,,,, but ,,as you have to vacuum substrate,your auquascape will change every single 2-3 months since you will HAVE to move the rocks around to get poo thats building up... but I like all of your setups!! :thumb:


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## bpark83

Trying it out with a blue background and backlight.

I can't go too bright on the backlight since the HOB filters show through.

What does everything think?


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## JimA

Ya know I like your tank, it looks good but structured. I do like the last pic with the lighting. Random is always better but hard to achieve. If you have not seen it take a look at Pomi's tank for ideas or it may take you in a different direction. I finally realized it for the most part and less can be better. Honest opinion loose the 4 rocks to the left, shift the pile over a bit and loose the rock dead center to open it up. That being said a tank is what you want it to be! I racked my brain over it trying to achieve the look I wanted, have I achieved it no. LOL Hard thing is your tank is on 55 gallons, it doesn't leave a ton of room for an aquascape, you have done a really good job! But kick back drink a beer and try and visualize something that may make it look more natural and not structured.

Another place to look is the rate my tank thread. It's only 101 plus pages of peoples tanks over the years most of which are gone now 

I also do not mean to offend, JMO! You really have done a nice job for the space you have to work with :thumb:


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## oetheous

I once had the exact same dilemma... I choose black. With partial lighting, I think either look awesome, but for full lighting, yeah, just can beat black.


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## bpark83

JimA said:


> Ya know I like your tank, it looks good but structured. I do like the last pic with the lighting. Random is always better but hard to achieve. If you have not seen it take a look at Pomi's tank for ideas or it may take you in a different direction. I finally realized it for the most part and less can be better. Honest opinion loose the 4 rocks to the left, shift the pile over a bit and loose the rock dead center to open it up. That being said a tank is what you want it to be! I racked my brain over it trying to achieve the look I wanted, have I achieved it no. LOL Hard thing is your tank is on 55 gallons, it doesn't leave a ton of room for an aquascape, you have done a really good job! But kick back drink a beer and try and visualize something that may make it look more natural and not structured.
> 
> Another place to look is the rate my tank thread. It's only 101 plus pages of peoples tanks over the years most of which are gone now
> 
> I also do not mean to offend, JMO! You really have done a nice job for the space you have to work with :thumb:


Thanks for the advice. The problem I have, however, is the limited front to back dimension of the 55g. I really like the look of pomi's tank, but don't have the space to build height gradually like that. Additionally, removing a lot of the rocks would take away a lot of nice caves for the fish - so I don't want to do that.

The left side of the tank actually doesn't bother me, i think it looks pretty natural with all the strata lines going in the same direction. The right side, however, I have toyed with here and there and haven't been happy with because I don't believe it looks natural.


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## bpark83

Doing some thinking. I believe I can naturalize this a little more without making major tweaks.

See the picture below.

I could remove the rocks circled in red on the left to introduce some more variation in height along the scape.

I think a larger rock needs to be put where the orange circle is.

I'm not entirely sure what to do where the green circle is, but I dont really like it.

Opinions?


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## NJmomie

The tank looks great.


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## pancakeloach

I love that kind of rock - I had to go to a landscaping place 'round my parts for mine, we have no good natural stones in my area of VA, just nasty red clay. XD I think removing some of the rocks would be a good idea; it looks really good as is, but just a little "crowded."


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## atreis

I think the dramatic appearance of the large rock on the right would be better if the lighting was more even. As it is now, the right side is shaded, so a lot of the beauty of the placement ends up being lost in shadow. Just something to think about.


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## bpark83

Removed some rocks which may have contributed to it looking structured or crowded.

Unfortunately, I cant remove too many, since some of the taller rocks are mounted to slate to keep them stable and I need to keep the slate hidden.


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## Eric_S

Love the lighting of your tank. Very cool looking tank :thumb:


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## Iggy Newcastle

I like the look of your tank, for sure. The dark, shaded areas add a sense of mystery and other worldly environment. The only thing you could do to help scape the tank is to buy a bigger one!


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## bpark83

Well, I took some of the advice from this thread and did some thinking....and decided to rearrange the scape a bit. I'm very pleased with the results:


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## bpark83

Ignore the last post, I can't delete it now.

I took some of the advice from this thread and did some thinking....and decided to rearrange the scape a bit. I'm very pleased with the results:


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## B.Roberson

Nice! :thumb: Very nice looking. Good job.


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## bpark83

Thanks. Pictures came out a bit dark with the white highlights blown out - not an easy thing to work with. I'll try to get some better ones in the next couple days.


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## bpark83

Some better quality ones:


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## pancakeloach

Looks great!


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## JimA

Much better, not that it was that bad before, but I like the open section in the middle! :thumb:


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