# Help, At witts end.



## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

First off, What a great informative site, Thank you all. :thumb:

Now, i have been keeping Fronts for about 14 years same ones like my own kids and treated that way as well.
Started out with 6 in my 180gal after the first year i was down to 3, Hole in the head was horrible.
However the remaining 3 seemed to bounce back and began to thrive.

Once they got to about 8 inches 2 were from what i could tell from all the info i gathered, Males.
The third a female dropped eggs at least 4 times wife and i saw, No fry ever i was stupid to have cookoo's in their as well at that time.

Well very long story short, 13 years later i have a very big 14 inch Brute "awesome" Male and the great looking lady, Like hitting a Lotto 1 male and 1 female fullgrown raised from and inch to 12 - 14 inches for over 13 yrs. Yeah i wish it were that easy.

Well 3 years ago, Due to personal issues we had to move, I had to give up the 180gal, I was stuck putting them in a 55gal i no.....Cardinal sin but its all i could do with all the changes in mylife going on at the time.

Just the 2 of them things were going ok, the first 2 years, But then the male, Came down with hole in the head again or it was dormant all this time, i have been maintaining it with weekly sometime 3 water changes a week.
Filtration in a ehiem canister filter also running my 220 gal. Wet/dry that i had on the 180gal.
I lowered the flow for sure in the 55.
Its to the point, I have had it, I no they need a bigger tank, Just can't do it right now.

But anyway, They both are now very, very, very fussy eaters, I seem to be doing more tank cleaning now getting uneaten food out its driving me crazy.
O'yeah argonite not fun while trying to get out small food bits with a python or any other method either....Lol

I'm looking for what would you try or what would you do if it were you type help.
I'm willing to do anything even give them up to a larger safe home as long as they are taken care of well for 0-NOTHING, Just give them a good home.

Before i do this, i'm just trying to get some ideas to try before last resort of finding them a new home.

The hole in the end is not effecting the female on the outside no visual signs, the male has a hole about the size of a #2 pencil eraser top above his upper lip and seems to come and go once a month now.

They were big eaters of the Hikari sinking pellets and a few times a month whiting or haddock.

Tank temp is 78, ph 7.6, Homemade salt solution reciepe from this site :thumb: .
They are active i made custom sturdy - mesh huts for each of them no other decor in there so they have some room.

But anyway, I lost my Dad, my 14 year old awesome malamute doggy, my 19 year old maincoon cat, 2 aunts and 1 cousin in the past year and half, So i can take another heartbreak if it is recommended that i find them a better home. Heart is numb now so now would be the time, I guess if there is no other solution.

Thanks for all the info and a great site. Sorry for long post.

Avid hobbiest for around 17 years now, Went from discus to fronts at one point i had 16 tanks....lol

Thanks again,
Bert


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Hi Bert,

Welcome to CF, and sorry to hear about all your bad luck. Regarding the food, my fronts are only about half as old as yours (7 years), but I have noticed that they seem to need less food as they get older. Mine used to be ravenous at daily feedings. Now I usually skip a day or two, and they'll eat, but not in a feeding frenzy like tropheus and mbuna tend to do. I don't think it's anything to worry about.

A lot of people associate hole in the head with stress. Keeping large fish in a small tank causes them stress...

All the best

Frank


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Thank You fmueller,

Yes i noticed that as well with the feeding, These Fronts have really never been frenzy type feeders.
But now it seems they will eat once a week a good meal.

Well, i did a few changes, I took off the Ehiem canister filter and i'm just running my 220gal. wet/dry system on it.
I added a few more filter sponges in the sump part and in the pre-filter to add more particle pick up space.
I figured cut down the water flow more so by removing the canister filter, They seem to be alot more calmer and more relaxed now, I will continue to monitor water for any changes.

I also called my fish guy and explained what was going on, He has 3 150gal. Front tanks in his store that are showcase, if all else fails on my end he will be willing to take them.
He is well aware of the males hole in the head and feels the fish should be alright.

I miss my 180 gal. for sure and i no they do too.

Thanks again for your input, I'll try and get some pictures up from their young days and present day. Funny, when i first picked up all the fronts many moons ago, He said you no these fish treated right will live 25 + years, I hope i can give them that.

Thank You.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Update,
My Fronts are doing good, They are eating good, taking food from my hands again.
I am doing 2 partial water changes a week about 30% of the 55's volume.
The males hole in the head has cleared up and he is looking good.

Last night they showed some spawning signs again colors out in full bloom and side dancing in circles.,

I am hunting for a larger tank, 100-120 gal.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm glad they will go to a larger tank...I've never experienced hole in the head disease with my fish..knock on wood..never will.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Floridagirl said:


> I'm glad they will go to a larger tank...I've never experienced hole in the head disease with my fish..knock on wood..never will.


Looks like i'm going to order a tank, I found a few glass tanks "120 gal's" 6 ft' for good prices, I really want Acrylic this time just because of the weight difference between the 2.

My old 180 was a beast 4 tough guys to handle it, I'm getting older , lol So i want a lighter tank to deal with.
The fronts are doing much better at this point, I'm going to do what i can for them, 14 years their a part of the family and deserve a good chance.
The pic's aren't the best, I'll try for better.
I made those mesh huts just so they were a bit calmer and seem to work out.
Until new tank is set up.

The male is about 15 inches and the female is 14 inches::::








Female

Male::::


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

fmueller i must say, I am in Awe looking at your tanks on your site.
Nice work.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Well a sad but yet sort of happy update,

My male, After 14 years has lost his battle with hole in the head it seems like he had from day one.
That pained me deeply he was like a child to me.

But in a strange event, I noticed 3 days later my female wasn't eating, I was very worried and started to monitor her for a few more days.
She looked healthy, colors in full bloom.
I noticed her mouth bulging a bit a week went by, So i put a few pellets in, She tried to eat them but wouldn't pick them up.

A couple of more days passed i tried again to feed, This time I SAW THEM, FRY in her mouth.
I can't believe it, Before my male passed they spawned, Maybe the stress of spawning was to much for him???

It is now over 4 weeks and i now have 22 babies that wife and I counted swimming around and eating, They look healthy and growing fast most are around half inch now.

I did end up picking up a 120 gallon, But i haven't set it up yet, 2 days after i bought it my male died and i just didn't have the heart to set it up.

Now mom and kids are in the 55 alone, How long before i should move them into the 120, I still have to set it up.

Thanks Bert
I'll get pic's of babies posted later.


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

This has got some potential to be a theatrical storyline.  The daddy lives on! Congrats on the fry. This post was a pretty exciting update after a couple of months. We definitely need pictures
opcorn: :fish: opcorn: :fish:


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## iandraco (Jan 27, 2012)

wow. what a crazy turn of events. very sorry for your loss, but congrats on the fry. hope they grow up big and strong for you so you can start a new colony.


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## fusion (Jun 21, 2012)

Happy endings are great :thumb:

Now just set up the new tank and enjoy your new additions

:fish: :fish: :fish:


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Thanks everyone, It amazing to us that this happened this way.
These pic's aren't the best right now, When the wife gets home i need to find out from her what setting she has the camera on so i can post clearer pic's..


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Update:

Well these l'il buggers are growing fast, I have 14 growing nicely.
I will be setting the tank up in about 2 weeks, I didn't want to move the babies until they started growing and everything settled down.

I am maintaining this tank with extra extra care, 3 20% W/C's a week, Cleaning the filters getting excess food out, Which theres really none left over, They eat very well.

Heres a few pic's and i'll try a video as well, I hope its viewing is clear.

















http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/b ... ure014.mp4


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Almost forgot, I now have another adult female, One of my buddies gave her up, So a grabbed her.

You can tell for sure there is 4-6 males showing in the bunch of babies.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

This is an amazing story. Glad to see him live on. Again, amazing. You are a very dedicated person. Congrats!


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Update:

Well its been a long wait, But the 120 is being set up tomorrow.

I had 2 months of back and forth with home owners insurance on damage caused by a storm in 2010, We found out after i ripped up the carpet that the damage to the floor was a old repair gone bad, They never added in cross braces to support repair on sub-floor so it caused it to sink in, Well i thought it was the water damage from the storm, Go figure.

It took the contractors almost 2 years to repair the damage in 6 other units, Every time it rained they had a new leak somewhere else, lol
Wife and I did all the work ourselves and a faring better, Granted banking account is a lot lesser, O'well.

Well, 450.00 bucks later, In 2 weeks i repaired the flooring and put in a new carpet and carpet pad.

For insurance i added in the basement a heavy duty Jack post under the part were the tank will be set up.

The babies are all doing fine and growing fast, I no a 120 will not be big enough to house 17 Fronts to adulthood.
But God no's i will do anything for them and give them a good life one way or another.

Even if i have to go bigger in tank wise a year or 2 down the road.

I'll post pic's when i have them in the new tank and all is set.

I have been saving dirty filter water for a few weeks now in a heated 29 with a air stone going just so i have some good seeding water to start the tank off.

Cya in a few,
Bert


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Update:

120 is set up and transferred fish, Everybody is doing well.
I have been monitoring the water, 0-A,0-N, Ph 7.8, temp 78

I transferred sand and filter's from the 55 as well as EVERY DROP OF OLD WATER, added 3 20lb of sand.

It was a rough day for me started at 4 am finished at 3pm

I have a Americle 220 wet/dry sump and a Hot mag 250 running it for now, Ordering a larger canister filter within 2 weeks.

Tank is 48 x 24 x 30, My wife said we are going to need a 300 gal. soon..........Yea i no.

Mother and 15 babies are doing very well, Also have a 5 inch female that a friend gave me....I couldn't say no.

Here are some pic's i no i have a Amazoning background on it, They didn't have a all rock one, I have to order that as well.

Thats me, My cat and my dog crashed out after the tank set up............lol

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/b ... e001-1.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/b ... e002-1.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/b ... ure004.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/b ... ure007.jpg


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Ok, I am in need of suggestions.

It is very obvious that what my wife and i have is not going to cut it in a 120.
My largest female is now about 14 inches and she is close to 14 yrs old this i no for sure i had her the whole time., My 2nd largest female is about 6 inches and about 2 yrs. old from what i was told.

The babies are about 5 - 6 months now and growing quickly and looking nice.

A few of them have some issues with crooked stripes and so on, But they would be culled if i was doing this as a profession for sure.

If i were to keep them all i would need at least 300 gal. tank, Yes i would love it but not at this time in my life, Just cannot swing it, Nor do i have the room for it.

So that being said, What the heck do i do?

I truly love these fish, But 17 in a 120 just isn't happening nor should anyone do that to them.

Here's my dilemma, Most of my local fish dealers that do house Africans cannot handle nor will they put the effort in to them.
Sorry to say but their tanks are horrible, One i saw had a tank of fronts and everyone one of them was either injured missing an eye of plain and simple dying.
I just can't find it in my heart to bring these fish to them, Within a month they would be dead.

Is there place around that i can send these fish to?
I'll pay the shipping and packaging and i do not want any money for them , Just a good home.

I'm looking to keep my 2 largest females and hopefully 2 males and 2 other females totaling 6 in my 120 for now until things get better and i can get something bigger.
So that means i have to find 11 fronts a home, All between 1-2 inches now and all in rather good shape, 2 of them have V pattern center black stripes, It looks awesome to me, But to a pro they probably would of been culled.

I'm also starting to see some males showing themselves, Pretty sure out of the 11, there will be a 5 male to 6 female ratio.

I hate that it is coming to this, But i new better when i had to give up my 180 i should of gave up my fronts.
To me it would of been giving up my kids.

I'm open for ideas and suggestions, Thanks all.

This 120 is powered by, a rated 220 gallon sump, wet/dry system, With a cascade 1200 canister filter and a hot mag canister.
20% partial wc performed weekly, Temp is at 80 via 2, 300 wt heaters, ph 7.8 - 8.2.
Everything else ammonia, nitrates, nitrites all at ideal ranges.

If i have to i will set my empty 55 back up and put some of the babies in there until i can manage them a better home.

Right now there is no issue with fighting or anything like that, I just no in about 5 more months this 120 is gonna be very small to this fish.

Thanks again.


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

What cute little buggers they are too! Love a tragedy with a happy ending!


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

What are the dimensions of the 120? If it is a 4' 120, you should start looking for other hobbyists to take them in. Best case scenario, someone is setting up a big tank and they want the whole colony. Perhaps contact aquariums that have freshwater tanks, or even colleges. I'd also look at your local aquarium society.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

metricliman said:


> What are the dimensions of the 120? If it is a 4' 120, you should start looking for other hobbyists to take them in. Best case scenario, someone is setting up a big tank and they want the whole colony. Perhaps contact aquariums that have freshwater tanks, or even colleges. I'd also look at your local aquarium society.


Did u hear that noise, That was my heart breaking.......
You are right, I new better, Sad thing was a guy about 10 minutes from was moving back to his home country and was selling a 150 {6} footer with filtration for 300.00, Out the door. I saw it running and everything.
I looked at the tank it had the metal stand , I was gonna build one myself.

When i got back home i measured out the spot in the living room, 5 ft and i was at the atrium door, 6 would of put us in the middle of the door.

The living area is a townhouse condo with garage so the living room is above the garage, For sure i could not put a tank in the garage , Unless it was cold water it gets to 45 deg in , Well say like today................lol "Winter".

So i had to set up a support system using jack posts just for added security.
But the space on at least partial load bearing walls was nearest foundation perimeter.
Corning the tank was really my only option. So we went with the 4 ft 120, And it was with filtration around 1100.00, Tank and stand was 670.00.

After i set this up , I realized i could of set the 150 up with no issues what so ever.........****.
I've been doing this for 20 yrs, with a 180 gal for 15 of them.
Also at one time had the 180 a 55 gal, 2 -75gal a 45gal in corner tank with discus and 2 -29 gal tanks, i no i missed a few and my wife kept betta's 25 in a very nice display set up. One was a pure black one imported from Singapore .

And chosen to do fronts only, But first mistake was not finding this site years ago.

Well, Gotta face it, Its either i set up a bigger tank, Or let go.

Anybody have a good home?????????????????

The female is my hardest to let go of 14 years i have her., Her name i've always called babybig girl........lol 

Thanks for your help.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

A 4 ft 120 is less than ideal, but many have kept a trio or quad in a tank this size. You could post them free to a good home in the CF clasifieds and you would probably find someone close who could pick them up.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Floridagirl said:


> A 4 ft 120 is less than ideal, but many have kept a trio or quad in a tank this size. You could post them free to a good home in the CF clasifieds and you would probably find someone close who could pick them up.


Thank u Floridagirl,

I am going to get some better pictures today of all of them and put together a Add for a free to good home.
Also today i am setting up my 55 and start cycling it so i can take out at least 11 of the babies, That would give me some time to find a better home for all.

Getting or buying i should say a 300 gal or 240 gal is not a issue, Were to put is.
I hate Townhouses.............lol

Thanks again.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

If only I had the space 

Might want to place ads on other fish sites, not craigslist. I'd want to see them go to a good home.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

metricliman said:


> If only I had the space
> 
> Might want to place ads on other fish sites, not craigslist. I'd want to see them go to a good home.


I wish you had the space as well Metricliman.
I called 7 stores here in Connecticut today, All are interested. 
Of course they are they are getting 11 fish for free they can sell for on average 40.00 - 50.00 a piece at this size now.
Here in Ct., They go for 80.00 or higher at 4 - 5 inches.

I told them all i will need to see their stores and the care that these l'il buggers will get.

My wife is very surprised i am not asking them to fill out a CFALAY, Form......*Care For At Least A year*, At least i will no they had a good year of life.
 This is my dream tank/fish and it's killing me i can't keep them.

Even if i do get a 300 gal. 17 fronts full grown would be very very tight.

I gotta get those pic's tonite for my add.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

I would recommend putting an ad on monsterfishkeepers.com. A lot of people with big tanks and fish rooms. If you would like, I can put one up.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

metricliman said:


> I would recommend putting an ad on monsterfishkeepers.com. A lot of people with big tanks and fish rooms. If you would like, I can put one up.


Thanks Metric, I talked with my shop owner that i ordered my 120 from, He has 2, 300 gallon display set ups in his shop.
One is all fronts and some catfish all native to Lake Tanganyika, The other is all African mix, They are big with Africans there.

He is willing to take all of them if i choose to and work out something for a equipment exchange for them.

I don't really care for the exchange i just want them to have a good home. But hey i'll take some back up equipment....lol

I am thinking about keeping my 2 large females and maybe 3 additional babies that will give me 5 in the 120, I should be able to house them for a while.

I am meeting with him at 11 am this morning, So i will let you no about making a post over at that site later, Hopefully i can do all this today as i start my new job Monday and won't have the time to run around all over the state.

With this new job, The future looks like a 300 is very much possible :dancing:

I started this hobby 20 yrs ago with a Arowana and a south american redtail, I raised them both to around 2 ft from about 5 inches long Then donated them to a person that had a indoor pool with the same fish in it, Then i fell in love with Discus and Frontosa's

I think i maybe rethinking the size doesn't matter issue i have.............lol


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

Bertz - why not talk to someone at a public aquarium - do you have any around you? One of those places that charges admission and has enormous tanks? My lfs guy was just talking about seeing some big cichlids in tanks that made them look small. You know they'd get good care in a place like that and you could even visit them on occasion.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Yael said:


> Bertz - why not talk to someone at a public aquarium - do you have any around you? One of those places that charges admission and has enormous tanks? My lfs guy was just talking about seeing some big cichlids in tanks that made them look small. You know they'd get good care in a place like that and you could even visit them on occasion.


Thanks for the tip Yael,

Years ago when i was working in a pet store maintaining the fish dept., We had several large fish that had to go, They were huge we called back then 3 place's that had large aquarium displays, African, South American and i forget what else but they were not excepting anything from the public.

Actually i got a ear full on how we should no better then to keep large fish.

We all make mistakes and many people that get into the hobby do not realize on how big some of these fish get, Myself guilty of this many times.

I learned, And now i am just trying to give some a good life.

It is taken care of, The store owner will take 12 and i'll keep 5 my 2 large females and 3 babies.
Thats all that will be in the 120 it should be ok for a while.

He has a few canister filters i am interested in and a nice quite one pump i want...lol

Again i just wanted a good home for them, Didn't care about money or equipment.

Thanks again everyone.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

All right, good. That LFS is awesome!


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

Good news! Sorry to hear that public aquariums are so unhelpful.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yael said:


> Sorry to hear that public aquariums are so unhelpful.


I think they just love their fish. :thumb:


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

DJRansome said:


> Yael said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to hear that public aquariums are so unhelpful.
> ...


Exactly, They have their fish picked out and thats all they want, Can't blame them.

I'm pretty sure i wasn't the first person to ask them for help, Nor will i be the last.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

metricliman said:


> All right, good. That LFS is awesome!


Yes, They were one of the largest a few years back, Seems like there was a LFS on just about every street corner in 90's now just a hand full left.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm glad to see you have the new batch of fish now, so even though your buddy passed, he has a legacy that you can enjoy.

I propose that you determine that your new generation of fish will not suffer from insufficient care, but will be either well cared for or rehomed with that goal in mind. I know what it's like to lose a fish completely by my own fault, so please don't take me as overly critical. Learn from it and move on. As for the mama, I think that there is still hope for her full recovery.

Here is a link to a really encouraging story on this site about an oscar who was so afflicted with HITH, that he looked like a shark attack victim. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=239602 It's well worth the read.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

vann59 said:


> I'm glad to see you have the new batch of fish now, so even though your buddy passed, he has a legacy that you can enjoy.
> 
> I propose that you determine that your new generation of fish will not suffer from insufficient care, but will be either well cared for or rehomed with that goal in mind. I know what it's like to lose a fish completely by my own fault, so please don't take me as overly critical. Learn from it and move on. As for the mama, I think that there is still hope for her full recovery.
> 
> Here is a link to a really encouraging story on this site about an oscar who was so afflicted with HITH, that he looked like a shark attack victim. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=239602 It's well worth the read.


Thanks vann59,
When i first started with Fronts 14 yrs ago, I started with i think 6 in my 180 and a few synodotis Multipuntatas pardon me on the spelling.
But every one of the fronts had HITH, I didn't realize it when i first got them but very quickly saw the mighty pin holes.

The male that just past was my only survivor from then, I purchased the female and 3 other's about a month after treatments were done, From another source, And yet still those had HITH as well.

Only survivors were my male and female so i kept them and added some other Africans, Which went well for many years until we moved into this new condo, Thats when i found out i could not set the 180 up again here.

When i put them in the only tank i had the 55, i had a 220 gal wet/dry on with a hot mag canister, I did 2 sometime 3 pw's a week and feed every other day.
My downfall was gravel i never used sand before and now that i have , I will never use anything else.
It keeps the water so much better for them.

Well anyways i learned, I just didn't want the 12 babies to end up in a 20 gallon sale tank until they were bought or died.
Heck i could of kept them in a 55 by themselves until i found homes for them.

Hopefully it all works out, If not i told my wife the 120 will have betta in it and thats it...........lol


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Well today is the day my babies go to their new home.
I took a few more pic's of them plus my 2 large females, The 13 inch one is my 14 year old and 7 inch one is the one i had received about 2 months ago, I will be keeping those 2 plus 3 additional babies, I think i can tell which one is a dominant male so he will stay for sure and i think i have a good feeling on the other 2 that hopefully will be females.

I am going to give those 5 a good home, I will upgrade my 120 soon.

Well enjoy the pic's, Sad day for me, I really do not want to part from them. But not fare to them they need bigger homes.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

I literally feel like crying. I hope they do well.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

metricliman said:


> I literally feel like crying. I hope they do well.


 Yea i hear you, I've been up from 3 am this morning just gazing at them sleeping.....lol

Its for their best, I keep telling my self over and over again.

My wife last night said well we still have the 55 gal. and 2, 29 gal. tanks just sitting in the closet not set up,can't we spread them out for a while?

I said we gotta look at it this way, How would we feel living in our bathroom for ever???????
No. Just not right for them.

Metric it will be fine, I double checked were they are going and they will be in a 150 display tank for now.


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

It's the fate of every parent that their 'kids' have to eventually go out into the world on their own. Bertz, think of it as spreading out the legacy of your dear departed Big Guy - he'd be so proud knowing his kiddos will carry on in homes of their own.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Could you PM me the name of the store? I might go up to Connecticut soon and I would like to check them out.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Yael said:


> It's the fate of every parent that their 'kids' have to eventually go out into the world on their own. Bertz, think of it as spreading out the legacy of your dear departed Big Guy - he'd be so proud knowing his kiddos will carry on in homes of their own.


Thank you, Its all taken care.
I stayed until they were put into their new home. Then i had to get out of there.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

metricliman said:


> Could you PM me the name of the store? I might go up to Connecticut soon and I would like to check them out.


PM sent.


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## jets07 (Mar 26, 2005)

Such a great ending...


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Update, Its been a few months and my my my, They do grow quickly.

A bigger tank is in the mix as well, At least a 150 6 footer, 4 ft is just not enough.
I do have abuyer as well for the tank we just bought a few months back for the new babies.

Well i ended up keeping 4 of the babies heres some pic's, I am pretty sure we have ended up with 3 males and 3 females. Not good!
One, the largest baby is now 4 inches and very dominant.

In the first pic, Its the largest baby,"Male", With my 2nd largest female.
In pic 2, Thats my girl, The surviving female from 14 years ago....She's a gem to me @ 13 and change inches long..

I'll try and get better full body pic's at next feeding.

Thanks to all with help and advice, Enjoy.

http://s45.photobucket.com/user/bzila/m ... d.jpg.html
http://s45.photobucket.com/user/bzila/m ... 0.jpg.html
http://s45.photobucket.com/user/bzila/m ... f.jpg.html


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## NJmomie (Jan 17, 2013)

Wow, what a great story, I was near tears at times. Your fish look beautiful and living a great life. I do have one question, what is the reason for the loop that you made in the tank?


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

Wow, Its been a long time from my last update.

I pretty much visit the site daily, Just not enough time in the day to put into words on everything.

For starters, My 2 females are doing great, My oldest girl, is over 12 inches in size and the other female is about 8.5
Out of the babies that i kept "4", 2 are for sure healthy strong males. At least 7 inches long but thick line backers now............lol
The other 2 may as well be males, Because one is about 4 inches and the other 2 Line backer males do bully it around every now and then.

Now the last one is only about 3 inches so either a female growing slow or a sub dominate male.
My luck i have 4 males and 2 females...........Opposite of really what i'm suppose to have but its working very nicely.

My oldest and largest girl, Keeps everybody in check, Males battles are broken up quickly by her.
I will get pictures this weekend in for sure.

They are all good eaters, I call them the pack.

Plans are in the forecast to upgrade from my 120, Right now there's plenty of room and the aggression is minimal.
Water quality is good,The filtration is handling the water nicely and Their health is very good, They seem happy.

So a total of 6 fronts doing good, What a joy watching them grow from first time mom released them.

Just stopping in saying Hello to everyone, I will get back with pic's.


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