# what type of cichlid is this?



## aquam4n (Dec 19, 2011)

i was given these cichlid fry...i was told that it was a tilapia cichlid but now i know there a hundreds of that type......what is this cichlid exactly? please help me so i can do more research.....and get a new tank if i have to









sorry ignore the tiger barb and im sorry for posting twice


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm not positive, but research these guys and see if that's not them -http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1442.
If it is them, I definitely see a larger tank in your future - buttikoferi get HUGE!


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Agree prob Tilapia buttikoferi juveniles.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=Tilapi ... tCA&zoom=1
Watch out these guys should come with a warning.
Get real big and real mean and grow very fast, easy to breed in thier hundreds but needs big tanks or you just end up with one big mean male.
Can be very difficult to move on if folk know what they are.
I would try and get my money back on them from the seller.

Just a chance I guess they might be something desirable like Tilapia joka young.

But then these would almost for sure be labellied up as such and with a big price tag.

All the best James


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Buttofikeri. Great pet lovely fish look beautiful as adults. Get big.

http://www.mojeakwarium.pl/forum/images ... feri_a.jpg

Nice adult

Can be mean. Once big one alone like a flowerhorn makes a nice pet. Maybe keep your nicest one grow it in a 100 gal short long tank and have it like a house cat .


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Time will tell soon enough, but they look more like niloticus or mariae fry to me. That would most likely make them a hybrid designed for aquaculture.

http://aquaponik-forum.de/Thread-tilapia-mariae

Sorry about the language but you can translate it if the pictures don't explain enough.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I'd agree that they are more likely mariae, than buttikoferi.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Time will tell soon enough, but they look more like niloticus or mariae fry to me. That would most likely make them a hybrid designed for aquaculture.
> 
> http://aquaponik-forum.de/Thread-tilapia-mariae
> 
> Sorry about the language but you can translate it if the pictures don't explain enough.


Good call I think. That spot sure looks mariae but prob too young/small to be sure of anything except prob a big Tilapia or Tilapia cross (That prob should not be in a LFS without a good label and a good warning.)

Sometimes they are labelled "no returns" which kind of gives a clue as to what monsters un ided Tilapia types can be in many a tank. :wink:

All the best James


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

The number of bars indicate _T. mariae_, and I seriously doubt there's been any hybridization involved. The bars turn into square blotches when they become sexually mature. It is actually a fairly attractive species when adult, and are not as aggressive as Buttheads.

There are no _Oreochromis _ or _Sarotherodon _that I'm aware of with the strong vertical bar pattern of adolescent _Tilapia mariae_ or _buttikoferi_, and the only other true _Tilapia _with that pattern as adult or juvi is _joka_, which has a very distinctive head shape. Do not confuse _Tilapia _the genus with "Tilapia" for food, which are _Oreochromis_ and _Sarotherodon_, and mostly hybrids. It would be very difficult to hybridize these with true _Tilapia_, as _Oreochromis/Sarotherodon _are mouthbrooders and _Tilapia _are substrate spawners.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

They seem to be sold without a species name from a LFS in the UK I suggest they are likely to be hybrids. Tilapia hybrids are not rare and are the usual in the UK.

Far too young to tell anything but about 9 out of 10 Tilapia types are fish originally bred for food and hybrid at least here in the UK.

Love to be wrong but it kind of rarely happens. :wink:

My best guess so far is mariae/buttikoferi cross or very poor mariae but then I am sure we will never know for sure if not sold as such. If iether of these or a cross pretty sure the owner will get wise and move em on to some other guy.

Not that pure Tilapia are not sold in the UK. But is kind of not the norm without a full Id. I would for sure get the details of who bred and sold them before breeding and selling them or even moving em on in our hobby. My guess is they prob need eating or keeping to yourself as they are prob not for breeding as no one can know what they are now or later.

All the best James


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

How big are they? The shape looks totally wrong for a buttikoferi baby to me.


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

_Tilapia mariae _has been in the hobby for a very long time. I bred them back in the late 70s, and it was around when I started keeping fish in 1967. The average aquarist does not cull, so there are certainly a lot of poor fish out there, and they breed just as easily as the nice ones. Most of the _mariae _in the hobby are many generations removed from wild.

But I cannot imagine, nor have I ever heard of, anyone crossing _buttikoferi _and _mariae_. The differences in behavior and appearance of the two species make an accidental hybridization extremely unlikely. It has no commercial food fish application, those are all mouthbrooders, and almost all _Oreochromis_ hybrids. So until someone shows me proof of a verified cross between those two species, I will assume that a fish that looks like _mariae _is _mariae_.

The fish in the photo are _Tilapia maria_, and he won't know how good they are until they mature. They look perfectly normal and healthy to me.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Chromedome52 said:


> The fish in the photo are _Tilapia maria_, and he won't know how good they are until they mature. They look perfectly normal and healthy to me.


+1

Been around this fish for many years-----brother had them in the early '70's; had them a few times myself since (the last large male i had i lost in 1998 when i moved, so not that long ago). Absolutely nothing unusual looking about these juvies IMO. It's juvie apearance is what gave the fish it's common name of "tiger cichlid' though few people probably call them that today. Anyways, silly to me to think that they would be a Tilapia buttikoferi X T. mariae cross :lol:


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Because of their large size and rapid growth rate, many tilapias are at the focus of major fishing and aquaculture efforts. Set against their value as food, tilapias have acquired notoriety as being among the most serious invasive species in many subtropical and tropical parts of the world. For example Oreochromis aureus, Oreochromis mossambicus, Sarotherodon melanotheron melanotheron, Tilapia mariae, and Tilapia zilli have all become established in the southern United States, particularly in Florida and Texas and even Australia.

Dunno mate but would be suprised if they had not hybridised by now.

Saying that I withdraw the mariae x buttikoferi cross idea. But think you guys are kidding yourselves if you assert mariae in the hobby are a pure species.

Lets face it it is pretty likely these are from the food industry not a hobbiest who has imported African pure guys. If from the food industry then far more likely to be hybrid as these grow fastest and give the best return for investment. Yes?

To be honest the buttikoferi idea was from the fact that this was a very poplar hobby cichlid in the UK in the 1980s and 1990s (Who knows why) and the others very rarely kept here. With mariae or mariae like fish putting in a more occational apearance.

All the best James


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

24Tropheus said:


> Lets face it it is pretty likely these are from the food industry


No it most certainly is not :roll: . Tilapia mariae is not, nor has it ever been, a commercial or aquaculture food fish. Same with Tilapia butikofferi. Food fish called 'tilapias' are mouthbrooding Oreochromis. Yes, T. zilli has been used as an aquaculture fish, though it quite insignificant and is generally not used as such, outside of Africa. Regardless, T. zilli isn't even especially closely related to T. mariae and despite T. zilli being a substrate spwner is probably more closely related to the mouthbrooding Oreochromis then it is to T. mariae.

Bear in mind that the genus Tilapia as it exists today is not monophyletic --not only morphology but all the DNA tests show this. Once the ichthyologists get around to revising this genus they will split it right up. Both T. mariae and T. buttikofferi belong to seperate subgenus----so quite unlikely they will end up in the same genus as they are not that similar. Just by looking at the fish, the barring is significantly different, the eye is different and the mouth and body shape are different. And behavoirly, they are different fish. That they are closely related enough to crossbreed -----posssibly, but since i don't think anyone has ever seen or heard of this cross, who knows.

Asssuming they could cross, actually getting thses two fish to cross, (especially by accident), I don't think would be a simple matter. never heard or seen of anyone breeding buttikofferi without an eggcrate devider--it's extremely aggressive. Never heard or seen of anyone housing the 2 species in the same tank. Big T. mariae males can be quite aggressive also, though generally less so then buttikoferi. Even less aggresive Oreochromis and T. zilli, i have never been able to house long term , male with female. Always ended up seperating them------the males are brutal towards female(s).


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

Bernie saved me the trouble of writing a long post. Ditto! :lol:


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I guess I got that wrong again then guys?
Thanks for the info.
Prob pure Tilapia mariae as these never ever hybridise.

Dunno if I hope they are those though.

A pretty undesirable cichlid to have in most UK folks tanks?
http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk ... hp?t=19488
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_tilapia
Looks like you need a 450 litres (100 gall) tank decorated simply with drift wood and stones. To even breed a pair. But you could get 100s per brood.
Ã‚Â£5 a fish dunno 50p would be overcharging?

All the best James


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