# New 75G Stocking



## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

Hello everybody,

I have recently started the fishless cycle on my new 75G setup and now I am starting to think about what fishes I want in there. The one fish that I really want is the Altolamprologus Calvus. So with that in mind I looked over the cookie cutter setup and came up with the following fishes:

Altolamprologus Calvus (2 or 3 - one male and the rest females)
Mix of Cyprichromis Leptosoma (3 or 4)
Paracyprichromis nigripinnis (3 or 4)
Synodontis euptera (5 - I already have these fishes)
Zebra Nerites Snails (10-15)

In addition I really like the Kasanga Gobi (Eretmodus Cyanostictus). Would I be able to keep a couple of these in the tank? My main fear is that they are herbivoures and the rest carnivourous. Would this create problems?

Regarding the Black Calvus, what is the best way of keeping them, as a couple or in a harem? Also, since I never see these fishes in my LFS, I think I will either have to order them through the mail or visit a couple of site sponsor that are located in the tri-state area to purchase them. 
Actually I think I will purchase all of the fishes this way, but the Calvus presents the following problem: My fear is that if I get them as youngsters I will not know if they are male or female and if I get multiple males I might run into problems. How would I thin out the males once I can sex them? Would the place I purchased them from usually take them back (of course for free)?
How old do the Black Calvuses have to be before they can be sexed?

Anyway, as always, any help greatly appreciated.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Sounds like it will be a great tank. :thumb:

Starting with the calvus, it's best to get a group of 6 juveniles and let them chose their mates. This is also the method for gobies and other pairing tangs. The extra fish are usually chased into the corners, and must be removed. Your LFS often will take them for trade, or other hobbyists. It's just how Tangs are done, and there's really no way around it.

Getting fish from a local breeder or importer is your best bet for getting decent prices. Juvenile calvus should be ~$5 each, compared to $20 ea at a LFS. :wink:

I'm a little confused about what you mean with "a mix of cyprichromis" These are schooling fish, and will not show their best color or behavior without having a group of at least 10. I suggest picking *1 type* of cyp and get at least 10 of them. Do not mix different Cyprichromis variants in the same tank.

Paracyps are schooling fish, and will be more comfortable in a group of at least 6.

I don't know much about the nerites, but the catfish should be great. They will likely disrupt any attempts by the calvus to spawn, but that will be a couple years down the road if you get calvus juveniles.

So, my recommended stocking list:

10 C. leptosoma, non-jumbo variety
8 Paracyprichromis
6 A. calvus
6 E. cyanostictus
Catfish and snails


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

triscuit said:


> Sounds like it will be a great tank. :thumb:
> 
> I'm a little confused about what you mean with "a mix of cyprichromis" These are schooling fish, and will not show their best color or behavior without having a group of at least 10. I suggest picking *1 type* of cyp and get at least 10 of them. Do not mix different Cyprichromis variants in the same tank.
> 
> Paracyps are schooling fish, and will be more comfortable in a group of at least 6.


triscuit, I did not know about the schooling behaviour. I will amend my plan to include only one variant of Cyprichromis and/or one variant of Paracyps.

I guess by your lsit that I should forget about the Kasanga Gobi?

Thank you


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## daniel4832 (May 8, 2004)

You picked a nice group of fish for your tank, but on the whole I would go with Triscuit's numbers.
The nice thing about a 75 is that you may be able to leave in the extra calvus and cyanostictus because there should be enough room for more then one pair to form.
Since the calvus won't allow the Cyps to successfully breed I would (have done myself) at lease double the amount of them in your tank, and go male heavy. The displaying of the males is incredible!
It should be a magnificent looking tank! Good luck and post some pictures.
Thanks,
Daniel


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

triscuit said:


> 6 E. cyanostictus


Never mind....


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

ccla said:


> triscuit said:
> 
> 
> > 6 E. cyanostictus
> ...


You'll need to start with 6 so that you'll get a pair. Otherwise you can just put one in.


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

Darkside said:


> ccla said:
> 
> 
> > triscuit said:
> ...


Darkside, I understand that. I was referring to the fact that I should read responses more carefully before I hit the keyboard.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I thought I would mention the Synodontis euptera will eventually get rather big for you. No worries for a long time but if you want you can replace them later with a group of Synodontis petricola or lucipinnis if they do, great group living Tang cats, enjoy a group and stays a better size for your tank and maybe less disruptive of the cichlid breeding. :thumb:
Though I know of no Syno that is small cichlid fry safe.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I just bought some zebra nerites, and it was recommended to stock one/10 gallons. I put 7 in my 75G. Hope this helps.


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

24Tropheus said:


> I thought I would mention the Synodontis euptera will eventually get rather big for you. No worries for a long time but if you want you can replace them later with a group of Synodontis petricola or lucipinnis if they do, great group living Tang cats, enjoy a group and stays a better size for your tank and maybe less disruptive of the cichlid breeding. :thumb:
> Though I know of no Syno that is small cichlid fry safe.


How big will they get? I thought they only grow to a maximun of 6 inches.


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> I just bought some zebra nerites, and it was recommended to stock one/10 gallons. I put 7 in my 75G. Hope this helps.


For some reason I thought I read 10 per gallon somewhere, which seemed extremely high for me; that is why I was going for 15 or so. Good to know the rate is 1 per gallon.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think the olive nerites are smaller than the zebras and may require more/gallon. But I'm reporting the opinion of one vendor (albeit reputable) and I just got them last week. So FWIW.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

ccla said:


> 24Tropheus said:
> 
> 
> > I thought I would mention the Synodontis euptera will eventually get rather big for you. No worries for a long time but if you want you can replace them later with a group of Synodontis petricola or lucipinnis if they do, great group living Tang cats, enjoy a group and stays a better size for your tank and maybe less disruptive of the cichlid breeding. :thumb:
> ...


About that yes. In tanks about 6-8 inch SL a heavy and bulky catfish (very peaceful though).
Lots of hybrids about here too that can get bigger.  
Just can not imagine 5 of these in a 75g without thinking they would dominate the look of the tank too much. The lucipinnis on the other hand you could have a beautiful group that stays below 4" and plays and breeds nicely in tanks of 3 foot (sometimes smaller), so does well in rocked communities with cichlids in four foot tanks.

Not urgent, they will do well I think until they are clearly too large (you will know when you see it) and are easy to move on and settle in other tanks or sell. (Popular and cheap)


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

24Tropheus said:


> About that yes. In tanks about 6-8 inch SL a heavy and bulky catfish (very peaceful though).
> Lots of hybrids about here too that can get bigger.
> Just can not imagine 5 of these in a 75g without thinking they would dominate the look of the tank too much. The lucipinnis on the other hand you could have a beautiful group that stays below 4" and plays and breeds nicely in tanks of 3 foot (sometimes smaller), so does well in rocked communities with cichlids in four foot tanks.
> 
> Not urgent, they will do well I think until they are clearly too large (you will know when you see it) and are easy to move on and settle in other tanks or sell. (Popular and cheap)


When it comes to that it will be a good excuse to sell my wife on the need for antother tank!! That or someone will get some nice large featherfins.
I find that they are extremly beautiful and if I am not mistaken they can live for a long time.


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

Hello,

So as my tank is cycling (the Ammonia has dropped to between 1ppm and 2ppm this morning from a start of 8ppm - I know too high but I will not go back up to 8 again). Now I have selected the list of new occupants for the tank:

â€¢	6 Alolamprologus Calvus (to be thinned out later on)
â€¢	6 Eretmodus Cyanoctictus Kasanga (to be thinned out later on)
â€¢	10 Cyprichromis Leptosoma (Ikola or Utinta)
â€¢	6 Paracyprichromis Nigripinnis

I have now some questions about how to go about getting the fishes and how to thin them out once pairs form.

First a general question on how to go about getting the fishes I want. I have been browsing some of the retailers that sponsor the sites and I can find some of the fishes I want but not others. Is it just a matter of waiting for the species to become available or usually if a seller does not sell a fish you will never find it there?
Secondly, I will probably try and drive out to the seller (after making sure that he/she has what I am looking for) because I am not sure I want to order through the mail. However, if I have to resort to ordering through the mail I was wondering how one goes about making sure that the fishes are what one wants. Are sellers willing to e-mail actual pictures of the fishes I will be receiving?
How old do Cyprichromis and Paracyprichromis have to be before they can be sexed? Can I specifically ask a seller to send me a certain number of males and females?
If I was to get both males and females of Cyprichromis and Paracyprichromis is there a suggested ratio needed to keep aggression down or it does not matter?
By looking at the Cyprichromis pictures I seem to like more the yellow tailed variety. Is the color of the tail an hereditary trait or not? In other words, if father has a yellow tail will the offspring do as well?

Now a question about the Black Calvus and Kasanga. I realize that they form pair but in some places I read that (at least for the Calvus) a harem setup works as well. What is the best way to go with these two species?
Also, someone said that I can probably keep two pairs of Calvus, however I assume I cannot do that with the Kasanga as it is listed with an aggressive conspecific temperament?

As a final question, I will try and get all of my fishes from the same source but that will not probably be possible. So if I get fishes from multiple sources I will not be able to put them in all at the approximate same time. If that is the case, given the list above, what would be the best order to put them in?

Thanks


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

ccla said:


> Are sellers willing to e-mail actual pictures of the fishes I will be receiving?


Assuming you buy juveniles -- you can probably get a picture of the parents and/or breeding group, though I doubt you can get pictures of "these are exactly the fish I would be sending you" from a retailer. Aquabid sellers sometime put pictures of the actual fish.



> Can I specifically ask a seller to send me a certain number of males and females?


You can ask, though I doubt most sellers are going to want to vent juvenile fish. Adult dimorphic fish though are a different story entirely .



> If I was to get both males and females of Cyprichromis and Paracyprichromis is there a suggested ratio needed to keep aggression down or it does not matter?


Haven't kept them myself yet, but I've heard of people recommending anything from 1 male per several females, up to 50/50 working just fine. Different strokes for different folks I guess . When it's my turn, I plan to just buy a big pile of juvies and just keep what I get unless I run into problems.



> By looking at the Cyprichromis pictures I seem to like more the yellow tailed variety. Is the color of the tail an hereditary trait or not? In other words, if father has a yellow tail will the offspring do as well?


I believe that a typical group of cyprichromis carries both genes, and the offspring will be a mixture. I'm sure you could line-breed away the color you don't like, but imho that variation is one of the charming things about cyprichromis.

-Rick (The armchair aquarist)


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Rick is right. Juvies, especially tangs are usually just a bunch of little silver fish...they don't color up until adulthood and it's not always easy (or inexpensive) to buy adults.

Plus they like to choose their own mates, so you buy six juvies to have a good chance of getting a compatible pair.

Trust your vendor, if he/she is reputable he/she will be better at picking the fish than you anyway, LOL.

The cyps are mixed...I bought 20 silver fish and about half are male, most with yellow tail but I have two with blue. I prefer the blue. Hey, get the same kind and we can trade!

Check with the vendor before you show up at his door...extra insurance is required to admit customers and many do not permit pick-ups.


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

I am having second thoughts regarding my stock list:

â€¢ 6 Alolamprologus Calvus (to be thinned out later on) 
â€¢ 6 Eretmodus Cyanoctictus Kasanga (to be thinned out later on) 
â€¢ 10 Cyprichromis Leptosoma (Ikola or Utinta) 
â€¢ 6 Paracyprichromis Nigripinnis

Specifically I am now wondering if it is advisable to place herbivores (the Eretmodus) with carnivores (rest of the fishes).
Has anybody done this and how do you make sure that each fish gets an appropriate diet?


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Yep, I have gobies in most of my tang tanks. I just feed them NLS and veggie flakes, sometimes they get brine shrimp or black worms intended for my xenos or lamps, but I've never had any issues with bloat. I just toss some NLS in a the same time to distract the gobies and then toss in the live food afterwards.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I have had bloat in gobies but not sure it was diet induced (stress and new fish seem the biggest inducers to me) . You could I guess limit food to stuff that was goby (mainly herbiviour but not totally) friendly.


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

Darkside.

by NLS do you mean New Life Spectrum Cichlid? Also, I see that you use veggie flakes. Is there any reason that you use this rather than wafers? Are gobies surface eaters?

I will look into the NLS stuff, but I was planning to use Hikari foods.

24Tropeus,
if I limited myself to Goby friendly foods woudn't my canivorus fishe suffer?


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Yep, I feed my cichlids New Life Spectrum 1mm sinking pellets, and I have used various different veggie flakes in the past. I find that my gobies are the hugest fans of the wafers, which are ignored for the most part, they're also fond of spirulina flakes and well, just about anything. I haven't found my carnivorous fish suffering from the veggie friendly foods, in fact I have 5 different types of fish all actively breeding in a 75, some of which are gobies.


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

Thanks darkside.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Same here. Both Altolamps and Eretmodus doing fine on NLS.
But also doing fine on "for veggie fish" foods.


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

Happy days! :dancing: Tonight I came home and tested Nitrites and they were down to 0.5ppm. If they go down to zero by the end of the weekend I believe I will be able to order my fishes and have them delivered next Friday.
On another note I was checking my canister tubes and I noticed some growth inside them (see pictures below). Is this anything to be worried about? What is it? Is it just bacteria?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Algae like what grows on the glass. Not a problem. It's hard to get a brush long enough to go through the entire hose. I've always said I would just replace the hoses annually, but have not done it yet (3 years now).


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

I also use NLS for all my fish, including gobies... no trouble, awesome color and breeding. They also get mysis shrimp and quite a few fry when given the opportunity. IME, gobies are not prone to illness and are pure gluttons when it comes to eating. As you get your new fish settled in, feed sparingly and make sure they're all good and hungry before feeding more.

Yep... algae in the tubes. No worries. They do sell tube brushes, but why bother? :thumb:


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## ccla (Feb 2, 2009)

I have alrady ordered and received a 5lb tub of NLS, thanks everybody for the suggestion.
Also, one of my Eheim filters came with a brush on a long wire to clean tubes. I guess I will be trying that down the line.


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