# Planning an upgrade soon. Would like some feedback...



## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

I am planning on upgrading to a 6 foot tank (preferably a 180 gallon) in December.

Right now everything is in an 80 Gallon. I have 1 Oscar, 1 Rotkeil Severum, 1 Blue Acara, and 1 Jurupari. BTW, nothing is full grown yet, so the fish aren't cramped and nitrate levels are low. I have never stocked a large tank before, and don't have much experience stocking large fish, so I wanted some feedback on my stocking for the new tank. I will include all current fish, and I would like to add a Heckli, Heros Notatus, and possibly an EBJD. Is this realistic? If anyone has any other ideas I would love to hear them.

Thanks,
Kate


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Sure it's realistic Kate, but We've got a saying here at Monster Fish Rescue...

Buy the tank, then the fish, because life's what happens when you're making other plans.

You have plans for a 180, a nice sized tank, but then your car breaks down, or you need a water heater or something stupid like that...

That being said it is going to be difficult to add fish to the tank in the future. Once you change pecking order things can get a little hairy... while nothing you have has the reputaion of being overly aggresive they've all got the potential.

Ideally the best way to set up a community cichlid tank is to get them all as juvis and let them establish a pecking order when they're a bit less lethal.

I'm going to get critisized for saying this (especially since it goes against everything I said at the begining of this post) but get your wanted 180 gallon list of fish now and get them together now. Only thing I'd do is romove all of the decor from the 80 that way there's not issues with territory. Get your 180 and it'll be a smooth transition... December is 4 months away. Your oscar will be 4" bigger than it is now and will more than likely not want any new cichlids upsetting it's tank


----------



## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

Thanks for all of the help you've been giving me TFG  I really appreciate it.

The money for the tank is coming from Christmas money from various family members, and the money from selling my current tank, so it's not like I'm pulling it from my savings or anything. I do understand your concerns though and was actually planning on waiting to purchase the new fish until I had the new tank.

That being said, I could purchase the fish now, if you think that would help everyone get along. If the upgrade does fall through, I would be prepared to sell/re-home any stock that couldn't fit comfortably in my 80 gallon. I wouldn't even plan on keeping my current fish long term in the 80, so in that case, I would have to re-home at least one of them as well.

I am just trying to plan, and have really no idea what I am dealing with as far as stocking this big tank. Thanks for all the help, and if you have any other suggestions, I would love to hear them.

Thanks,
Kate


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I think you've got room for a couple of catfish, but those can be added when the new tank comes. They're not cichlids so it's not an issue...


----------



## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

Catfish sound good... maybe a few larger fancy plecos


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *ktluvsfish*,

*proviso; everything I'm about to say is essentially hearsay, as in, I've read it on numerous cichlid site boards, but have no actual expereince with the cichlids your discussing , except with Oscars and Blue acaras many, many years ago. Where as *TheFishGuy* has a lot of hands on (or in, as may be the case) experience, with probably all the species you've mentioned.

I know this is probably going to upset *TFG*, but I would like to see you remove the jurupari form your current and future stock list. Have you heard of a guy called Lee Newman? Basically he's the man when it comes to discussing Satanoperca species. I have read quite a few posts of Lee's here and more over on the CRC board. He quite often mentions that most Satanoperca have a mellow temperament and don't generally do well in community tanks with boisterous tank mates. Nor do they do well as an individual, prefering to be in groups, with 5 being viewed as a minimum.

As for the EBJD, from all that I have read, they appear to be a delicate fish. Not temperament wise, but health, care and maitenance wise. For a relatively expensive cichlid, I'd rather not risk one in a community tank setting.

I do think A. heckelii could go in with your current cichlids. Some other SA cichlids that you may wish to consider include, `Geophagus` brasiliensis or `Geophagus` sp. "Bahia Red", Hypselecara temporalis (Chocolate cichlid), Uaru amphiacanthoides (Triangle or Waroo cichlid), and maybe an Aequidens diadema or Aequidens metae. I would also like to include 'Aequidens' sapayensis (Gold acara), but I would be a little concerned of the possibility of the two acara's spawning and producing hybrids.

Here's a photo of one of my LFS's 'Aequidens' sapayensis. They have a breeding pair.


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

DeadFishFloating, you've given excellent advice :thumb: I agree with 99% of it :lol:

Not upset by the satanoperca details ,not upset at all. I just recently learned of all this. (I'm speaking mostly of my experience with Jurupari) I'venever had luck keeping them in groups, but always had luck keeping them with the heavy hitters because they were usually ignored...


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

TheFishGuy said:


> DeadFishFloating, you've given excellent advice :thumb: I agree with 99% of it :lol:


Do I assume that the 1% is that I didn't upset you.


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

It takes a lot to upset me


----------



## M0oN (Dec 8, 2003)

TheFishGuy said:


> It takes a lot to upset me


African cichlids are superior to Central American's in every way shape and form!

:dancing: :lol:


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

M0oN said:


> TheFishGuy said:
> 
> 
> > It takes a lot to upset me
> ...


Stop smoking weed dude!

But good to see you didn't mention SA cichlids, as everyone here knows, that would be no win arguement for you.


----------



## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

M0oN said:


> African cichlids are superior to Central American's in every way shape and form!


HANG HIM!!!!!!!!!! :x :x :x


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Well, when you get down to brass tax he's not too far off. The largest cichlid in the world hails from africa, they are more advanced in more ways than one, the way they care for their young is even more advanced. All that being said... Since Centrals and Souths were on the earth first that makes them  WAY  cooler. You can;t top the original of anything. Take the Dodge Viper GTS for example. Blue with white stripes in the first year offered :drooling: Now the car is mre advanced but it sucks... So you can take your "superiority" and go back to Africa. :zz:


----------



## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

DeadFishFloating said:


> G'day *ktluvsfish*,
> 
> *proviso; everything I'm about to say is essentially hearsay, as in, I've read it on numerous cichlid site boards, but have no actual expereince with the cichlids your discussing , except with Oscars and Blue acaras many, many years ago. Where as *TheFishGuy* has a lot of hands on (or in, as may be the case) experience, with probably all the species you've mentioned.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the imput Deadfishfloating 

I was thinking along the same lines when it comes to the EBJD. My LFS has a nice one that I have had my eye on forever, but at $130, I am so afraid I would bring it home and somehow manage to kill it within a week. They are such gorgeous fish, but you are right, they are probably best in a species tank.

So far my Jurupari is doing well. I will definitely keep an eye on things though. If things get bad, my LFS will always tank him back. I really do like the other geos, the only problem is for some reason, my LFS only stocks the Gymnogeos. I have no way to provide them with the cooling period that I have heard that they require since I live in SoCal, and even in the winter, my outdoor pond rarely gets below 65 degrees. I don't even use heaters on my indoor tanks and they stay at a constant 78 degrees.

I do like the Chocolate Cichlids and Uaru's! I didn't think of them before because, like the geos, they are hard to come by around here. I saw some on Jeff Rapps' stock list though, so maybe I can put an order in with him and get some more geos as well. I think he has gold acaras too. My blue acara is for sure a male (since he recently paired with my female convict), so maybe I could ask Jeff if he could pick me out another male. Thanks for posting the pics. That's one gorgeous fish!

I would like to add in a Heros Notatus, but since my Rottie is a male, I don't really think that's possible. My two options would be to add another male (who I doubt he would tollerate) or add a female and have him produce hybrid babies (and I just re-homed my female turquoise severum for this exact reason).

BTW, as far as the African vs. New World argument goes....... well I just sold all of my Africans and the tank now houses a pair of Nics  Africans bore me :zz: what can I say!


----------



## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

FYI, _Andinoacara sapayensis_ usually goes by the common name 'green acara' in the states. That might help some if you try to track it down. That true acara Rapps has is really pretty IMO, the undescribed _Aequidens_ sp. Atabapo.


----------



## M0oN (Dec 8, 2003)

TheFishGuy said:


> Well, when you get down to brass tax he's not too far off. The largest cichlid in the world hails from africa, they are more advanced in more ways than one, the way they care for their young is even more advanced. All that being said... Since Centrals and Souths were on the earth first that makes them  WAY  cooler. You can;t top the original of anything. Take the Dodge Viper GTS for example. Blue with white stripes in the first year offered :drooling: Now the car is mre advanced but it sucks... So you can take your "superiority" and go back to Africa. :zz:


  Everyone knows African's - with the exception of some Tanganyikan's, are boring blue fish.


----------



## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

So I placed an order with Jeff Rapps and have added some beautiful juvie cichlids to my tank 

I know that my current stock won't work in a 180 long term, but I figure until they get bigger I can observe their behaviors and how they interact with each other. Since I have never kept any of these species before, I can decide which species I really enjoy, which I don't care for, which fish are trouble makers, etc. By the time they reach adult size I will have rehomed a few or set up another tank.

From Jeff I got:
1 vieja synspilum
1 uaru
1 chocolate cichlid
1 heckli

So far everyone is getting along great. Nitrates are still between 5 and 10 ppm. I am purchasing my filters on the first os october and will be running them on my current tank to seed the bio media. Tomorrow I am also picking up some more manzanita wood for the new tank. Can't wait!

I am open to any suggestions you guys have. I'll try to post some pics soon


----------



## madmax666 (Sep 11, 2008)

pics!


----------



## aFinFan (Jul 29, 2009)

TO TFG "Since Centrals and Souths were on the earth first"is this theory or fact? I keep SA/CA and Africans love them all I would hate to choose thats why I have so many tanks-sorry didnt mean to derail thread but hate seeing africans slammed .


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Haha... Fact... Hatiensis and tetracanthus are probably the most primative cichlids on the planet. Hence "old world cichlids"

Africans are "new world" And contrary to popular belief I do keep quite a few african cichlids... Mostly the tilapians and related species like frontosa... So... anything that gets big :lol:


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Nice dinner plate cichlids those afros.


----------

