# Is There a Frontosa/Gibberosa Price Bubble



## mtber (Apr 8, 2005)

As part of a recent interest in setting up a Frontosa tank, I have been researching Frontosa pricing. I was surprised at the asking prices for these fish, with medium sized (4-6â€


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

I think you make some good points but the question ultimately becomes, so what? And I don't mean that in a harsh way but actually quite literally. Fish keeping is purely hobby, so its not like people are going to spend the money if they don't have to. So even if it were true that the prices were inflated people are paying them, so almost by definition it can't really be inflated.

I also have two issues with the analysis. First, you have to assume that people who buy Frontosa have the money to spend. Unless you buck convention most Frontosa owners have large tanks that are usually fairly expensive, even if bought as used setups. Second, large tanks are "fairly expensive" relative to smaller tanks. This means that if you were interested in Frontosa, you would be buying a large tank, and a colony of expensive fish. If this price point does not match what you are willing to spend then you are going to end up going in a different direction. Perhaps a smaller tank, or cheaper fish. There are many cheap options out there. So I think people who are going to buy Frontosa are going to be able to afford them.

Related to that is the fact that these prices usually only apply to F1 or Wild. If you were concerned about price you wouldn't be buying F1 or Wild, just get something cheap. Also keep in mind that pretty much only the Zaire types are expensive. If you wanted Burundi you can get those pretty cheap.

I also think looking at Aquabid is not the best example. I don't know about most people but when I search on aquabid for Frontosa I always found things like "RARE PURPLE MOBA WILD ONLY FOUND BY ME!!!!!". I didn't put my stock in those kind of claims and I'm guessing other found them just as skeptical. There also tends to be relatively few Frontosa up for sale on Aquabid relative to other species of fish.

Also, I know that most LFS or online stores prefer to sell adult Moba because the pricing is more favorable to them - thats why the little guys tend to be less cost effective. However, in my case, I wasn't going to pay $150 per Moba adult when I could spend a lot less for some juvies.

And I think if you can find Moba or Kapampa at 25$ then thats a good deal. I paid almost twice that for my F1 Moba juvies.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

i've always been surprised what some will pay for 1" gibberosa, considering most come from private sellers, with no more experience than a big tank and a colony. but it's not likely you will ever see them as common LFS stock. so long as retail is willing to pay $20+ for a more common cypho., the investment vs. productivity ratio just isn't worth it. a $200 group of frontosa can put out 50-100 fry every two months easy. a same sized group of gibbs would likely cost $800+ and might not ever offer up a holding female.


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## Ron R. (Oct 21, 2003)

You make some good points however, you didn't take into consideration the number of fry and juvies lost due to inexperience, equipment malfunction............... I've sold several fish to the same customers over and over because of this.

Mobas and Kaps are difficult to breed. If you have an adult colony of mobas or kaps........that doesn't mean they are going to spawn. I've been pretty successful. I started out with a colony of 10 wc mobas that I bought over 4 years ago from TNT Cichlids. I lost 3 wc mobas over the years and I have 3 females that breed pretty regularly.

Some folks buy a wc colony and they breed in a few weeks. Some folks keep a similar colony for years and nada. Raising a colony from fry is a commitment, mainly of time. Most folks get bored keeping the same fish or even type of fish.

Right now I have over 85 F1's at various stages and I even have a wc moba momma that starting holding eggs on Election Day............very patriotic!!!! LOL She probably has between 20-30 eggs.

I don't ship fish. People drive from all over Texas to my home in Houston........some as far as McAllen, Texas which is over a 10 hour drive..........1-way! Most of my customers drive from San Antonio, San Marcos, Austin, Dallas........ I usually have a wait list of 5-7 customers that wait from 2-8 months for fry. They usually buy 10 1" fry.........sometimes 15.

I can understand you waiting to see what the market is like based on supply, demand and the current economy we are in. The only thing that slowed things down for me were the high gas prices that prevented many from making the 3-5 hour drive to Houston. Now with low $2 gas in Texas, they are driving again.

I don't sell my fry as a business. I enjoy raising them and helping others establish young colonies. I keep everything contained in my 180g tank.

If you are interested in buying the more rarer types of fronts, do your homework and contact reputable breeders or on-line fish dealers. Ask others here and on other fish boards about the folks that sold them their fish.

I have seen 1" F1 moba fry sold anywhere from $25 - $50 each. I have seen some pretty big variations in quality as well.............coloration, light/dark stripes, mooning......

If you buy 10 or more fry, ask for a discount based on the volume you are buying. Most folks are willing to deal with you.

I could sell my fry for $25 each all day long, but I spend alot of time changing water (50% weekly), I spend a good amount of $$$ on quality foods and time stripping the momma, tumbling the fry, transferring them to floating nurseries...............I keep my prices high ($40-$50 each depending on quality) and cut the price by $5 for each fry when they buy 10 or more fry. When people make this type of investment, I feel they are going to take good care of their fry......kinda like buying your first car. I ragged out the one my daddy bought for me in the mid-'70's. LOL

Hope this helps.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

Ron R. said:


> I have seen 1" F1 moba fry sold anywhere from $25 - $50 each. I have seen some pretty big variations in quality as well.............coloration, light/dark stripes, mooning......


The LFS I bought my F1 Moba from made it easy for them and hard for me to complain about the price. At the time I went in they were selling several types of Frontosa/Gibberosa, but the only Zaire type was Moba. The price difference was $6 per 1.5" Burundi to $45 per 1.5" Moba. I went in thinking I would never spend $45 on a colony of baby fish. The problem is when you walk into their fishroom there is a large colony of 8"-10" Frontosa in a nice looking tank on a sleek black stand that you can't take your eyes off. I have seen a lot of people walk around the fishroom and then ask "What kind of Frontosa are the ones at the door?". The answer is Moba, but they might as well say "The most expensive kind". So then when you are looking at the different fry tanks all right next to each other, even at 1.5" which one you do think looks nicer? The bad thing is that I talked about how much I liked the Moba before I tried asking if they would consider a cheaper price. At first they wouldn't but I really can't complain because I think I ended up paying $38 per fish, but thats because I bought 5 at time (to decrease the chance of killing them all at once) and they gave me good discounts for coming back.

When they first got their batch of Moba juvies there were 65 of them. Half of them sold in a few weeks. The reason I mention that story is that if you can at least make it seem like you are selling a quality product, people will pay a quality price. Eleven Moba later I am very happy with my selection.


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## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

Frontosa are also more expensive where i live compared to bigger cities. I live in the boonies where there are very little in the way of LFS or local fish breeders. The local LFS got burundi in and sold them for 25 dollars each for 1.5 inch juvies (they would get 2 in each week and I would go in and buy them LOL). Considering i would have had to drive an hour and half one way to see a shop that had them i was happy with that price. They were my first frontosa and I like them very much,and still have them. i now have added a nice F1 mpimbwe group as well, those i bought online from a member/breeder on a frontosa website i go to. I paid 10 dollars each for those fish that turned out to have exceptional color so im even happier with those mpimbwe than the burundi. So your location plays a big role in pricing as well, i know for sure that if my fish breed i will be able to sell locally for a higher price than someone who has a market flooded with them...


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## tirzo13 (May 26, 2004)

There was a time i could get 25 each for mpimbwe, now sometimes i sell my mpimbwe fry for 10 bucks each when i'm lucky.

zaire have held prices pretty good.
not a lot of people breeding them.

at first when moba/kitumba/kapampa fry were sold they were about 40-50 bucks.
now the usual is 35.
so not much of a drop for the amount of time they been around and the increased amount of people attempting to breed them.

my burundi mpimbwe and kigoma were so easy to breed and gave me lots of fry.

not so lucky with my moba kitumba and kapampa.
got a group of 15 kitumba for sale in a few weeks, i'm sure i can still get 30 each for them here in the bay area.


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## 2ToneArmy (Feb 8, 2003)

mpimbwe's are pretty inexpensive on Ebay - and are a nice looking fish for the money. I'm trying to decide if I want to do fronts or discus in my next tank.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

mtber said:


> ...Now here is where the bubble comes in. Iâ€™ve searched Aquabid listings for F1â€™s and wild caught for the last three months and what I see is the same fish listed over and over again. I have no doubt that some fish are moving in specific cases, probably especially for wild caught fish or where someone is a Frontosa veteran and â€œexpectingâ€


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

2ToneArmy said:


> mpimbwe's are pretty inexpensive on Ebay - and are a nice looking fish for the money. I'm trying to decide if I want to do fronts or discus in my next tank.


Discus require too mainteance for me.


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## gregga (Jul 30, 2002)

I've been breeding wild caught mpimbwe for about 5 years and have only seen a slight, if any, drop in price for 1" juvies, from $15 down to about $12.

what I have seen however is a difference in the LFS. I sell a nice quantity of my mpimbwe juvies to my LFS because they give me top dollar....and while the buy price has basically remained the same, the quantity of fish they accept has definitely slowed, which IMO is a clear sign of the economy.

One more point about aquabid: If I have 50 mpimbwe juveniles for sale, I still place a listing for 10, with a note saying more available. Once the 10 sell, I keep the same add running for the next batch of 10....so even though it's a relist, it doesnt necessarily mean fish didnt sell.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Out of this last batch of Kapampa, I sold 20 to a LFS (10 to the owner and 10 to one of the employees) for $35 each. I have not got any interest from other LFS at my price. It's seems that they carry Burundi and really don't know much about the Zaires (or their value) - I think them expect them for a burundi price. I think $25 to $35 to a LFS is a lot of money for a fish. Now they LFS that bought they 20, they already knew about Zaire Blues and were very excited to get mine (I do show pictures too). She still has not put them for sale yet (she really likes them personally).

Burundi & tanz would seem more affordable for the LFS.

I hope the economy starts to pick up soon.


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