# Gnats growing in tank???



## tooch420

For the past two weeks when I do my water change I noticed gnats coming out off the top of the water. Last week I did a full cleaning and got them all. Now today I took off the covers and more gnats(at least they look like gnats, small flying bugs). Please help me take care of this problem.

I have a 55gal mixed African Cichlid tank, with a fluval 304 and 4 UGJ's with a RIO 2100.

Thank in advance
Gregg


----------



## Darkside

They are chironomid flies, nothing to be worried about, fish like to eat their larvae and the flies are harmless to humans.


----------



## tooch420

how do i get rid of them


----------



## Darkside

These flies are usually seasonal. They come inside your house when you open and close doors. You'll have to wait them out, but to help speed the process you can keep vacuuming the tank out and removing adult flies. Also if you cut down on the feeding they won't be as plentiful. Time is the only way you can really be rid of them.


----------



## tooch420

This tank has been set up for 3 years and nothing...y now?


----------



## Darkside

Yep its all random. A gravid chironomid fly followed you inside and deposited eggs in your tank.


----------



## tooch420

wow, thats crazy...well thanks for the input


----------



## tooch420

WTF...cant get rid of these flies. There has to be a way to get rid of them they are everywhere. Cant even open the lid to feed them.


----------



## Darkside

I know this is a tall order, but could you possible post a picture of one? Then perhaps I can suggest a way to deal with them.


----------



## tooch420

cant post images here


----------



## tooch420

They're too small for me to take a good picture...Also, since the bugs came, the water has been very dirty. Lots of stuff floating around even right after filter cleanings. I have what I usually have in the media baskets and it's been fine all along, especially with the UGJ's.


----------



## Number6

tooch420 said:


> Also, since the bugs came, the water has been very dirty.


 I'm willing to bet that the water was always pretty dirty and that the flies are simply taking advantage of ideal conditions. IMHO, I would change at least 50% of the water, take off the tank lid and wipe down all along the top edge/black trim, rinse the lid and my guess is that that will be the end of those tiny flies.


----------



## tooch420

Well, for your information...the tank is always kept crystal clear, ESPECIALLY after a full filter cleaning. Dont get me wrong, I've let it go before and its been dirty, but it seems no matter how much I clean its not enough. 
My last monthly full cleaning was on the 1st of the month, I thoroughly cleaned both covers, wiped under the rim all the way around and in every crevice, wiped the glass down, cleaned the UGF pump... and for the Fluval, I changed the sponges, rinsed the bio balls, replaced the carbon bags, and cleaned the entire filter assembly. And did a 15% water change. Next week is another full cleaning, should do something different?


----------



## Darkside

Number6 said:


> tooch420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, since the bugs came, the water has been very dirty.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm willing to bet that the water was always pretty dirty and that the flies are simply taking advantage of ideal conditions. IMHO, I would change at least 50% of the water, take off the tank lid and wipe down all along the top edge/black trim, rinse the lid and my guess is that that will be the end of those tiny flies.
Click to expand...

If they aren't on the glass they'll be in the substrate. What type of substrate are you using? Depending on how crazy these insects are driving you, treating with a copper based medication may be an option. You'll definitely want to do weekly 50% WCs as #6 suggested.


----------



## Number6

tooch420 said:


> Well, for your information...the tank is always kept crystal clear, ESPECIALLY after a full filter cleaning.


 I've seen tanks with "crystal clear" water with nitrates as high as 100ppm! Talk about yikes... the owner had no idea why he had springtails ( a different critter you can get like your gnats).

I could be wrong... so if you know your nitrate level, please post it. If you don't know it, does your LFS test for you?

Otherwise, you could just do a couple of big 50% water changes and IME, they go away.


----------



## tooch420

K, thanks for the advice...I will check all my levels and post. O, and substrate is mix of sand and crushed coral, about 4 or 5 inches


----------



## tooch420

PH - 8.0
NITRATE - 0 PPM
AMMONIA - 0.25 PPM
NITRITE - 0 PPM


----------



## Number6

tooch420 said:


> NITRATE - 0 PPM


very low probability of zero nitrates in anything but a planted tank or algae farm. Is the test kit working? check expiration dates.


----------



## Darkside

Number6 said:


> tooch420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> NITRATE - 0 PPM
> 
> 
> 
> very low probability of zero nitrates in anything but a planted tank or algae farm. Is the test kit working? check expiration dates.
Click to expand...

Yep even my planted tank still shows some nitrate all be it minimal. The only aquariums I've ever had that were virtually nitrate free are SW setups. I think something must be wrong with your test kit, even with 5' of substrate you'll only have limited anaerobic areas.


----------



## tooch420

Thats all u got??? the kit is bad. The kit works fine, I know how to do it properly..... they're chemicals, they're not expired. I haven't had this kit long enough for anything to expire.


----------



## Darkside

tooch420 said:


> Thats all u got??? the kit is bad. The kit works fine, I know how to do it properly..... they're chemicals, they're not expired. I haven't had this kit long enough for anything to expire.


The kits do expire rather quickly and if its strips, not drops they're rather inaccurate to begin with. I know this because I'm a chemist.  In any cause you shouldn't be showing 0 nitrates.


----------



## Number6

tooch420 said:


> Thats all u got??? the kit is bad. The kit works fine, I know how to do it properly..... they're chemicals, they're not expired. I haven't had this kit long enough for anything to expire.


I am tempted to say "enjoy your gnats", but that isn't the sort of behavior to make a fun and useful forum... so, let me just say that I apologize if I am somehow coming off rude or sound like I am not taking your situation seriously. I've had those gnats in a planted tank and then a fry tank. In the first case, they lived a little bit in the substrate and in the scum around the top of the tank. In the second situation, they were eating the tiny bits of left over fish food that stuck to the top of the tank at the water line. In both cases, the only thing that got rid of them was a couple nice big 50% water changes and wiping it down as it removes their food supply (both the bits of food and then the algae and what not that nitrates help grow).

I've offered this advice to friends with the same problem and it has yet to fail.

Had you posted 10ppm nitrates, I would have been puzzled at being wrong... but 0ppm is so improbable that I have to start at the most likely explanation... 0 is not correct.

Hope this explains my replies. :thumb:


----------



## tooch420

So I just did a major overhaul last night. Removed all the rocks and hosed them off, vacuumed out all the substrate (sand, crushed coral) which stunk really bad, wiped down the glass, covers and every crevice, replaced half the water, cleaned every part of the filtration system, and pulled the UGJ tubes and cleaned them out too along with the pump. This time there was alot of smell which is'nt usually the case when I do this. I hope this helps. After letting it go all night I will re-test all my levels.


----------



## Number6

*tooch420*
It will definately help, if not eliminate the issue completely. That smell is the pollution that those gnats thrive in... nitrates, gunk, etc. You may have to watch for ammonia/nitrite spikes as all that cleaning can release pockets of wastes. If you experience any sort of spike, more water changes and using a product like Prime that detoxifies ammonia and nitrite should help your tank through it.

Let us know how things turn out! As I mentioned, I've yet to see a good thorough cleaning and a few big water changes fail to get rid of the gnats. :thumb:


----------



## tooch420

Thanks again  I'll keep u posted.


----------



## tooch420

K..well after all that they are still here :? Sice we last spoke its been ok but just the other day I went to feed the fish and a whole but load of them flew at me when I opened the cover. I've even been slowly sucking very deep into the substrate to remove deep gunk and to remove some of the sand. I think the I have to remove most of the substrate to take care of this...what do you guys think? and how do I do this without killing the fish? Can they stay in a bucket of their water with no filtration for a few hours?


----------



## Number6

that bites! Very strange... they usually vanish in cleaner conditions. Sorry it didn't work as I thought it would.

To remove all the substrate, you can put the fish into something like a large tote or garbage pail and as long as the water is moving, they'll be good for a bit. Prime can be used if it's going to be overnight or anything. That way you can vaccum out all the substrate and leave it running bare bottom for a bit. I'd say three weeks... those things will be gone by then or else you need to find out where they've found to breed as it will be somewhere very unusual. :thumb:


----------



## tooch420

So your saying leave my fish in the pail for three weeks?


----------



## Darkside

I think he's just asking you to remove the fish from the aquarium long enough for you to remove all the gravel. Once the gravel has been removed you can refill the aquarium and reintroduce the fish. Leave the aquarium (with fish in it) running for a couple weeks while the gravel dries out. Once its dry you can add in back into the aquarium.


----------



## Number6

exactly... fish only need to be in the tub/garbage pail with a powerhead moving water while you physically remove the gravel. Run the tank barebottom for the three weeks.


----------



## tooch420

OK :thumb: Thanks all

I will let u kno how it goes

PS. should i rinse out the filters? by now they tend to get clogged with the larvae. If i dont wont they just re-appear?


----------



## Number6

tooch420 said:


> PS. should i rinse out the filters? by now they tend to get clogged with the larvae. If i dont wont they just re-appear?


 

how can they be reproducing that quickly... I would consider bleaching the canister if that was my filter... not the media, just the unit. Dry out thoroughly and dose with Prime to make sure the bleach is all gone.


----------



## newforestrob

Very classy Number6 thats what helps make this forum second to none :thumb:


----------



## tooch420

newforestrob said:


> Very classy Number6 thats what helps make this forum second to none :thumb:


does that mean you agree with him?


----------



## CoolCichlid

I've read an article about gnats. It says that presence of gnats in your aquarium means that you are overfeeding your fish or the water is dirty...


----------



## tooch420

how can they be reproducing that quickly... I would consider bleaching the canister if that was my filter... not the media, just the unit. Dry out thoroughly and dose with Prime to make sure the bleach is all gone.[/quote]

I'm not sure what this is, but it's been a month since my last cleaning of my 304 and this is what i found, tell me what you think this is.


































And it's even inside the rings..


----------



## CoolCichlid

What's that? :?


----------



## tooch420

thats one of the bio rings with whatever **** is in my filter in the center of it..


----------



## CoolCichlid

LOL is that a bullet? :-?


----------



## stormer0719

Darkside said:


> I know this is a tall order, but could you possible post a picture of one? Then perhaps I can suggest a way to deal with them.












:thumb: :thumb: :dancing: :dancing: =D> =D>


----------



## Pali

Hmmm If they aren't gone yet, I would by now consider trying to eleminate them biological, I would introduce entomopathogenic nematodes to the tank to kill the gnats.

Dunno how entomopathogenic nematodes effects the fish tho, but they will kill off the gnats


----------



## Manoah Marton

Archer fish! :lol: 
(jk, those are brackish)
Try to find the source of the problem. Do you overfeed your tank (even a little bit)? I would do as Numbers 6 suggested and bleach the darn thing. Or, before that, collect a few of the larvae and feed 'em to your fish...they'd LOVE that!!!
Best of luck,

Manoah Marton


----------



## tooch420

Yes, i still have them. when i do an over haul and rearange the rocks and clean all subtrate it seems to have solved the problem, but then i'll let it go for a few weeks and there back. I have more info on my other posts please check them, but i did remove all substrate and let it go for a couple days then replaced with a cichlid substrate, cleaned all rocks, both filters(i kno thats not what ur supposed to do) it seemed good for while....but low and behold they were back. cant seem to shake em. :-?


----------



## KiDD

I'm going to try a shot in the dark and say that there is another place in your house that they are coming from.. When you clean your tank good you kill the ones there but then they come from somewhere else around the house and re populate the tank.


----------



## nauTik

newforestrob said:


> Very classy Number6 thats what helps make this forum second to none :thumb:


x2 :thumb:


----------



## Dj823cichild

Sick there's no puke face. But insert here ____


----------



## fmueller

First of all, let me say that I am feeling with you. Those critters look absolutely disgusting, and I am not sure I would still have a tank that had been infested with them for so long and so severely. I admire your perseverance with the hobby!



tooch420 said:


> I've even been slowly sucking very deep into the substrate to remove deep gunk and to remove some of the sand. I think the I have to remove most of the substrate to take care of this...what do you guys think?


That sentence got my attention. Can you tell us any more about your tank? How thick is your substrate layer? What is your substrate - play sand, pool filter sand, other? Do you have life plants? How is your tank aerated - spray bar, venturi diffuser, bubble wand, other?

The reason I am asking is that you don't seem to vacuum all your substrate on a regular basis. Obviously you can't do that if you have plants whose root system you would disturb. It might also be ok if you have coarse substrate through which enough water can circulate, or if you have fish that turn your substrate over through digging. But if you have a fine sand substrate like play sand and no plants you need to regularly turn over your entire substrate or you will get pockets of anaerobic decomposition that could be at the root of your problem. Of course better aeration of the water also reduces the chances for anaerobic decomposition, for example by using a diffuser as outlet of your canister filter.

In a tank that is not planted there is no good reason to have a substrate bed thicker than about 1", and I can't think of any plants that really require more than 2". A thicker substrate bed is more trouble than it is worth, because it is hard to keep clean.

If you have any suspicion that those critters could be in the substrate, I'd discard the lot of it, and replace it with about 1" of pool filter sand. As you know, taking out the substrate is a bit of work, but PFS is cheap, looks good, and might well solve your problem. Seeing how clean you appear to be keeping your tank otherwise, I can't think of any other possible problem :-?


----------



## LoRyder

Someone said about over feeding is there a chance that someone else is feeding them without you knowing it??


----------

