# New to me Jack Dempseys



## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

i have never had Jack Dempseys before but i got 2 them for free from a guy on craigs list. they are in a 75gal tank. they were in a 40gal. the male is about 6 in and female is about 4in. she is really beat up. at first they got along good in my tank then at night after the lights go out i would hear splashing and my thinking was that he is attacking her again, like he did in the last owners tank. i guess my question would be how can i stop this as i would like them to spawn and get some babies. should i add other fish? i know Jack Dempseys are very aggressive so what could i add? does a fishes diet affect their aggression? like if i feed them more meaty foods with they be more aggressive? Any advice for a new Jack Dempseys owner would be helpful. i have had another 75gal with African Cichlids for years so I'm not new to fish at all just Jack Dempseys.


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## Flippercon (Mar 5, 2011)

Give your tank plenty of sight breaks and hiding spots. Add dithers (giant danios ,yoyo loach) something fast they can't catch. That will spread some of the agression. If your female ends up in the top corner begging to get out seperate or get a divider. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## justin3p0 (Apr 5, 2010)

jack dempseys are very active when the lights go out make a couple caves


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

yes i have seen her in the top corner begging to get out. i will add a lot more cover tonight when i get home.


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

Out of curiosity, can you post pictures of your dempseys just so we can be sure you have a male and a female.


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

ill take some tonight.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Always remove the aggressor.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m new to Jack Dempseys as well & basically trying to do the same thing as jason081180 & breed them (by the way IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m from El Dorado, KS). I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t want steal the thread, but think a bit more detail and we can help each other out. I collected my JDs from three different stores hand picking each of them for what I thought was the ideal shape, fin, color etc. I have also successfully kept & bred a number of cichlids, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m just changing gears.

I have had the JDs for about six weeks now. The first two weeks went as expected & the JDs hid a lot. Then they decided to come out and play when I added the dither fish. The tank had an Ich breakout because I wasnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t cautious when I added the dither fish. I treated the Ich with CopperSafe from Mardel, along with Freshwater Aquarium salt & increasing the temp to 84 degrees. Four days later all the spots gone, did a vacuum & big water change, added another CopperSafe & salt treatment, and then allowed the temp to slowly drop. Seven days later still Ich free, did another vacuum & big water change, this time I only added the salt.

So this got me to where IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m at now. My JDs range from 1.75 to 3 inches; my main question is simply this, Ã¢â‚¬Å"Why are all my JDs so washed out from color?Ã¢â‚¬Â


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

Also, would anyone say "never keep JDs with an open top aquarium"? I currently have the front six inches of my tank wide open. I haven't read anything that's says JDs are regular jumpers.


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

Generally when the JDs are very light then they are stressed. Two things come to mind, the copper safe may have been harsh on them and it stressed them out. Also what are you ammonia, nitrite and nitrate reading? It could be that the meds did something to all the beneficial bacteria in your tank and the bad water quality is stressing them. Another thing is I find JDs take a long time to get comfortable and since you've had them, they've had a rough time in your tank. I would give them some time and I would think they would darken up. Just curious, what color and what kind of substrate do you have? I find my JDs are pretty light over riverstone gravel and if I used black or blue substrate, they really darken up.

Also I would get rid of the flake food for the JDs, switch to a high quality cichlid pellet. I personally prefer Hikari and Omega One.

Anyway good luck with them and keep us posted on your progress.


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

i have been wondering about the open top as well the whole top of my 75gal is open. fish get more color when they are happy and not stressed. i would not add salt anymore. does the place they come from have salt? i asking here, not being an ass. i need to know. also what do u mean by "dithers"? i haven't heard that before. sounds like you did the right thing with the Ick. your water temp might be a little high but i don't know. I'm new to this and currently keep mine about 75 degrees. My JDs love to hang out in the rocks more that the fake plant part of the tank so maybe you could try adding some rocks to make them more comfortable. i forgot to get some pictures but I'll try to remember tonight.

i use Hikari cichlid pellet, beef heart and freeze dried bloodworms.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

jason_nj said:


> Also what are you ammonia, nitrite and nitrate reading? Just curious, what color and what kind of substrate do you have?
> 
> Also I would get rid of the flake food for the JDs, switch to a high quality cichlid pellet. I personally prefer Hikari and Omega One.


Ammonia: reading 0 ppm
Nitrite: reading 0 ppm
Nitrate: reading less than 5 ppm, but I need a new test kit so I'll bump it to less the 10 ppm

Substrate: is the silica free sand from the hardware store, with some moon sand mixed in to darken it up a bit more

New Life Spectrum is high quality & I have an unopened bag of Hikari Cichlid Gold sinking pellets, ready to go when they finish the flakes.

I hope you're right about the CopperSafe treatment & I think I'll add more moon sand to the mix & make the substrate even darker if they don't begin to turn in the next month.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

jason081180 said:


> i would not add salt anymore. does the place they come from have salt? also what do u mean by "dithers"? I'm new to this and currently keep mine about 75 degrees. My JDs love to hang out in the rocks more that the fake plant part of the tank so maybe you could try adding some rocks to make them more comfortable.
> 
> i use Hikari cichlid pellet, beef heart and freeze dried bloodworms.


Salt is in all water even freshwater, just a much more trace amount than what I have added for the Ich treatment. I intend to slowly dilute it down to 1/2 cup for the entire 150 gallons of actual water volume. Yes, Central America has trace amounts of sodium chloride.

"Dither" fish are fish that are active all the time & swim in open water. This activity makes the other fish feel safe to come out of hiding. Trust me a lot of us do it, because it works. :wink:


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

DIYhunter said:


> "Dither" fish are fish that are active all the time & swim in open water. This activity makes the other fish feel safe to come out of hiding. Trust me a lot of us do it, because it works. :wink:


what fish work well with Jds?


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

jason081180 said:


> what fish work well with Jds?


These dithers are great for the juvenile to young adult stage of JDs life. They all could/will end up as food sooner/later.

1)Giant Danio
2)Buenos Aires Tetra
3)Tiger Barb

If you want something for the long haul then maybe a single convict. BTW I said


DIYhunter said:


> IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m new to Jack Dempseys as well...


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

please let me know if you think i do have a male and female and anything else you notice.


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

They look male and female to me. In the first picture, the female is in front. The 2nd picture is your male dempsey.


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

jason_nj said:


> They look male and female to me. In the first picture, the female is in front. The 2nd picture is your male dempsey.


yes that's what i was told when i got them about 2 weeks ago. any idea how to help them have babies? what temp? kind of food? maybe more or less salt in the water? more often water changes?


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

jason081180 said:


> yes that's what i was told when i got them about 2 weeks ago. any idea how to help them have babies? what temp? kind of food? maybe more or less salt in the water? more often water changes?


As far as I know, you don't need salt for dempseys. I don't have any salt in any of my tanks with them. Just high protein foods like a good quality pellet, with either bloodworms or brine shrimp as a once in a while treat.I've had dempseys breed in water temps between 77-82 degrees, lots of water changes help with adding water at a slightly lower temperature usually helps them to spawn. Also make sure there is a breeding spot for them, a piece of flat rock like slate or a clay flowerpot or a pvc pipe. I also find if you put those things in a secluded place, like surround it with rocks or plants where they can feel more secure or its a more defensible position, they'll feel more comfortable spawning.

Now other than that, it just a matter of being patient. Good luck with them.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

jason081180 said:


> any idea how to help them have babies? what temp? kind of food? maybe more or less salt in the water? more often water changes?


jason_nj is correct you don't NEED any salt, I don't know how new you are to fish keeping but I may have confused you just a bit. I run salt as a preventive to fish disease, parasites, fungus, etc. Also it helps maintain a balance, sort of like people taking vitamins. It has very little effect, if any, to trigger breeding in a Central American Cichlid.

Temp: I have been able to trigger spawning by adding ice or just cold water to an aquarium. This is to simulate a heavy rain. You're wanting to add about 1-3% water volume, not a water change more a water top off. I usually did this after a heavy (5-6 very small feedings per day) three day feeding then fed heavy for about two more days. Bam! spawn activity overdrive. This method work great for many of my pseudotropheus socolofi.

Food: It's roly poly season up there in Wichita, you know what I'm talking about, right? Get out in the yard, look under them rocks & bark, rinse 'em, them feed your JDs. They feed just like pellet food, but they're so much better for the JDs. Also, you'll have baby crickets coming soon up there; if not already. I have 'em already in Texas. But my point here is you have all the food you need just mix it up, but sustain your basic staple. Live bugs work great for defining colors, the roly polys worked wonderfully for my Salvini's when I had 'em.

Water Changes: Many people think/believe that more frequent smaller volume water changes, triggered a spawn, so they'll suggest to do so. In fact what happen was they eventually got lazy, though they won't admit it, and added a much cooler water temp than normal, thus simulated a heavy rain fall. Some will argue that the frequent water changes got the tank to a higher water quality & the water quality stimulated the spawn. Then I respond with "Why are you running your aquarium at a poor water quality to begin with? " It's true dilution is the solution to a healthy aquarium, but if you have to do daily 3-5% water changes then your tank is overstocked/under filtered.

To sum it up
1) be sure you JDs have a place to call home; i.e. one cave per fish; nothing plastic because the eggs won't stick
2) feed often & feed light for three to four days
3) top off with cold water or some ice
4) opcorn:

Lastly it just takes some time, remember fish are instinctive critters and cichlids are great parents.


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

i like the idea of many light feedings a day and the colder water to simulate rain. i will look for some roly polys and other bugs to see what i can find. i would just want to wash anything good that i find outside. right? i also keep some salt in my aquariums as a preventive and to help the slim coat.


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## ClarkIR (Mar 2, 2011)

DIYhunter said:


> Also, would anyone say "never keep JDs with an open top aquarium"? I currently have the front six inches of my tank wide open. I haven't read anything that's says JDs are regular jumpers.


may be a bit late to the party on this one but I came out on Sunday from the shower to find my male laying on the floor. He ended up being ok but yes, they can jump out and would recommend covering it.


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## ClarkIR (Mar 2, 2011)

jason081180 said:


> jason_nj said:
> 
> 
> > They look male and female to me. In the first picture, the female is in front. The 2nd picture is your male dempsey.
> ...


My female slowly blew up over a couple weeks... I got a really bad ick outbreak and used Nox Ick and cleaned it out. After that she stopped chasing my male and they stay pretty docile towards each other (have had both of them fresh out of the fish store), she use to be very aggressive towards him.

I turned the water temp up to 80 and mon,tue they spent most of the evening moving gravel and making a hole. If you read my thread i put up earlier, she ended up laying eggs on an urn I have in the tank. Shes always been fond of the urn as a hiding spot regardless of where it was in the tank. I think her affinity for it made her comforable with laying her eggs there. It is towards the back corner and they dug the hole right behind it practically in the corner.

Alot of this is speculation based on my observation as this is my first pair, and my first mating experience, so take it with a grain of salt.


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

i think its very interesting to see them doing that stuff and i would love to find it in my tank. now they just hang out together and he will vibrate at her sometimes. i have a better heater on the way and will then keep the water about 80 now its at 75. i will look into getting some glass for the top of the tank but its going to be hard as there is not center brace so it would be one 4ft piece of glass. not two like my other 75gal mixed cichlid tank.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

I totally agree 80 +/- one degree is just right for keeping a JD.

jason081180 a 4 ft piece of glass will need careful handling  Maybe looking at http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/d ... covers.php for starters, just saying you have options.


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

today the male was being very aggressive towards the female she was hiding up in the top corner of the tank. i have them separated for now but how can i stop some of this in the future. maybe hes ready to mate and she not. :wink: i don't know. i will be rearanging the tank now that i see how much they like to rocks and getting rid of the fake plants and building more caves. not sure what else i can do.


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

jason_nj said:


> I would give them some time and I would think they would darken up. I find my JDs are pretty light over riverstone gravel and if I used black or blue substrate, they really darken up.


Good call, I found about 25# of moon sand I had in the spare parts shed. I added a very thin layer over the surface of of my sand just to get a quick reference. 24 hours later, the JDs were dark & the iridescent color was brilliant. I went ahead mixed in about 5# of the sand. Now I have the JD color I was wanting.

I have three JDs at almost 3" and if I follow the gill plate marking rule I definitely have one female & two males. Also, I have three much younger JDs in this same 125. Just a few more months & I'll be in your situation jason081180, can't wait but at the same time I'm enjoying the fact that I have a small group of JDs.

There's already a plan in place to re-home the remaining that don't pair off :wink:


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

jason081180, I think you're headed in the right direction by re-arranging the tank and building more caves. If you can build at least one cave that only the female can access I've read this can help. Be patient and keep us posted on both success & failure. Failure isn't a bad thing it will only give you/us another experience to learn from.


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## jason081180 (May 5, 2007)

DIYhunter said:


> jason081180, I think you're headed in the right direction by re-arranging the tank and building more caves. If you can build at least one cave that only the female can access I've read this can help. Be patient and keep us posted on both success & failure. Failure isn't a bad thing it will only give you/us another experience to learn from.


yes indeed more experience will be helpful.


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## yuanyelss (Jan 20, 2011)

With salt and fresh water, only a trace more than I have to add the amount of cerebral hemorrhage in the treatment of all water. I'm going to slowly fade down the actual amount of water 150 gallons to 1 / 2 cup. Yes, Central America, trace amounts of sodium chloride...


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

So I'll admit that I have not read this thread, but from skimming over it it sure seems like things are getting a bit out of hand with all the discussion about salt traces and such. So, I'm going to take my time and read through this entire thread over the next couple of days and respond appropriately. Till then....

-peace


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