# Water parameters for captive bred cichlids



## Ashtricks (Sep 19, 2017)

Hi all,
I am planning to convert my tropical 75G tank to a peacock - hap tank. My question is around the water quality and captive bred fish vs wild fish.
How important is it to match the pH, hardness etc to the water parameters of lake Malawi while keeping captive bred fish? I assume that being in tanks all their lives for many generations, it would not be important to match the water parameters with their origins. Am I wrong in assuming this?
-Ash


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It's important to match the parameters in your tank to the tank they were raised in.

Many of us raise Africans in water that approximates Lake Malawi so don't assume tank raised is not a high pH.

I know my vendors and LFS also either have water that naturally is high in pH or raises pH to suit the fish in the tank.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

No real way to tell where and how fish have been raised. Many are raised in ponds in Florida but then there are also many raised in tanks in Ohio! 
But all is not a loss because I find the water needed is not really as specific as the written info would lead us to believe. 
For sure instance? Raising African cichlids we are told they "require" high PH, hard alkaline water. True but if we add live plants and want good growth we can easily push the PH down a full point! My tap is 7.8 but my cichlid breeding happens in a tank at 6.6 currently. 
For my use, I read the info and follow it but only to the point that it becomes awkward. If I want a fish or plant that doesn't meet my water, I may still try them and let them decide how it works out. I have bred African cichlids, angelfish and rainbow cichlids and use the same tap water in all tanks. So far none have refused to breed and fill more tanks than I can handle. 
I feel blaming the water is just a very easy way to excuse ourselves when we don't know what we did wrong. :-?


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## thornsja19 (Feb 4, 2017)

As long as your water parameters aren't over the top one way or the other, keeping your water quality high and the parameters consistent tends to be more important than the parameters themselves.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

PfunMo said:


> No real way to tell where and how fish have been raised. Many are raised in ponds in Florida but then there are also many raised in tanks in Ohio!
> But all is not a loss because I find the water needed is not really as specific as the written info would lead us to believe.
> For sure instance? Raising African cichlids we are told they "require" high PH, hard alkaline water. True but if we add live plants and want good growth we can easily push the PH down a full point! My tap is 7.8 but my cichlid breeding happens in a tank at 6.6 currently.
> For my use, I read the info and follow it but only to the point that it becomes awkward. If I want a fish or plant that doesn't meet my water, I may still try them and let them decide how it works out. I have bred African cichlids, angelfish and rainbow cichlids and use the same tap water in all tanks. So far none have refused to breed and fill more tanks than I can handle.
> I feel blaming the water is just a very easy way to excuse ourselves when we don't know what we did wrong. :-?


Sorry but have to disagree with this for the most part. If your keeping plants with your cichlids you plant what works with your water perameters. As far as the water chemistry the original poster is right to an extent,however heathy pure breed specimens were likely raised in somewhat comparable gh, kh, and Ph to what they have in nature This can be accomplished with the simple cichlid recipe found on this
site. I can tell you that some cichlids such as discus,and many tangs will have better broods with more survivers that grow bigger and better and healthier with water that approximates the water they come from and the same applys to the adults. 
Final thought. No matter what, the single biggest piece of advice and I think all successful fishkeepers will say as well is adhere to frequent large water changes with whatever you add. Weekly 50% plus. Nothing matters more by far.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

PfunMo said:


> No real way to tell where and how fish have been raised. Many are raised in ponds in Florida but then there are also many raised in tanks in Ohio!
> But all is not a loss because I find the water needed is not really as specific as the written info would lead us to believe.
> For sure instance? Raising African cichlids we are told they "require" high PH, hard alkaline water. True but if we add live plants and want good growth we can easily push the PH down a full point! My tap is 7.8 but my cichlid breeding happens in a tank at 6.6 currently.
> For my use, I read the info and follow it but only to the point that it becomes awkward. If I want a fish or plant that doesn't meet my water, I may still try them and let them decide how it works out. I have bred African cichlids, angelfish and rainbow cichlids and use the same tap water in all tanks. So far none have refused to breed and fill more tanks than I can handle.
> I feel blaming the water is just a very easy way to excuse ourselves when we don't know what we did wrong. :-?


Well said.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

Cyphound said:


> PfunMo said:
> 
> 
> > No real way to tell where and how fish have been raised. Many are raised in ponds in Florida but then there are also many raised in tanks in Ohio!
> ...


Sorry, but I could not disagree more with this statement.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

thornsja19 said:


> As long as your water parameters aren't over the top one way or the other, keeping your water quality high and the* parameters consistent tends to be more important than the parameters themselves.*


This is what we find works best for us.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

BlueSunshine said:


> Cyphound said:
> 
> 
> > PfunMo said:
> ...


In order to prevent this post from being a novel I will respond with, okay


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## Ashtricks (Sep 19, 2017)

Thanks all! I have worked out an easier way for water changes on my setup. Now I don't have any excuse to be lazy with water changes  I am researching on what species of peacocks and haps I like and what would go together. Planning to start the tank transition in a couple of weeks.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I'm sorry but I'm calling bs on the whole "consistency is more important than the parameters" argument. That is only half true because the parameters are just as important as consistency. Consistently high nitrogen compounds wouldn't be conducive to healthy fish. Water changes are paramount to keeping those levels low and to dismiss the importance of adequate water changes is irresponsible. I agree that weekly 50% water changes are pretty much standard for most African cichlid tanks.


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## Ashtricks (Sep 19, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> I'm sorry but I'm calling bs on the whole "consistency is more important than the parameters" argument. That is only half true because the parameters are just as important as consistency. Consistently high nitrogen compounds wouldn't be conducive to healthy fish. Water changes are paramount to keeping those levels low and to dismiss the importance of adequate water changes is irresponsible. I agree that weekly 50% water changes are pretty much standard for most African cichlid tanks.


Sorry, I should have been more specific when I said water parameters. I was refereing more to pH, hardness etc and not of nitrates and nitrites


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

In that case, carbonate hardness directly correlates with pH stability. Low kH tends to allow for much greater swings in pH. Despite what some people have posted, pH in the 6's is not ideal for African cichlids regardless of where they were raised. They evolved and adapted to a certain type of water and it affects how the fish metabolize nutrients and electrolytes. You can keep a fish alive in a 1 gallon bowl but just keeping something alive isn't necessarily the best course of action.


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## thornsja19 (Feb 4, 2017)

Ashtricks said:


> caldwelldaniel26 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry but I'm calling bs on the whole "consistency is more important than the parameters" argument. That is only half true because the parameters are just as important as consistency. Consistently high nitrogen compounds wouldn't be conducive to healthy fish. Water changes are paramount to keeping those levels low and to dismiss the importance of adequate water changes is irresponsible. I agree that weekly 50% water changes are pretty much standard for most African cichlid tanks.
> ...


I was also referring to keeping good water quality (i.e. no ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, consistent water changes) and stable parameters (pH and hardness). Obviously pH should be kept as close as possible to natural conditions. But if you're not adept at maintaining ideal pH conditions, you could cause swings that are worse for the fish than keeping them in a slightly less than ideal pH. Me personally, as long as my tap water comes out in at least the high 6s, low 7s, I'd rather just keep it that way than risk trying to buffer it up and have something go wrong and cause a swing


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Buffering and raising pH is as simple as adding a little bit of baking soda or store bought cichlid buffer. Most amateur aquarists should be able to handle such a simple task. I guarantee that you would be extremely hard pressed to find any African cichlids from a reputable breeder, RESPONSIBLY bred, and not repeatedly inbred in an acidic pH. Usually people that are overdosing CO2 have pH in the 6's.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

It is a little more complicated then simply leaving you Ph the way it is. This goes for all fish. As mentioned kh or carbonate hardness must be at a certain level to prevent Ph swings. I have 8.2 out of my tap, but no kh or little gh. The result. If all I did was change water over time my Ph would continue to lower and swing more with each water change This applies to low Ph fish too. Many city water sources are high Ph now but low kh, gh. Fine for instant consumption. The problem lies with the fact that as the fish breath, are fed and poop this causes the Ph to lower because of the end result nitrates unless the kh is sufficiently high to prevent that. So in the span of that week the Ph will lower and over time continue and too fluctuate more with every water change. Change is not good. And At a certain Ph which I think is below 6 the problems escalates. I have friends in the hobby that keep shrimp and other low Ph fish who had many issues until they started keeping the kh at a sufficient level to stop the Ph fluctuations.
Putting the cichlid recipe I mentioned into your water is not difficult and it's cheap. Do these things and your fish keeping experience will be rewarding. I change 50% water on 210 gallons of tanks including cleaning one filter per week in about an 1.5 hrs. X5 tanks.


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