# Mbuna Fry



## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

I have a brood of Demasoni fry and a brood of yellow fin Acei.

recently i put them together in the same tupper ware bowl. today i found that two of the acei were dead. the Demasoni are a bit bigger because they are about 1 week older i just stripped them at the same time. can i mix them or should i keep them seperate. they are all free swimming with no egg sacks


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## dad_jsp (Aug 13, 2008)

keep them separate


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## Ravenatnm (Mar 20, 2008)

how big is the tupperware bowl? A 10 gallon tank usually only costs $10.


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

I agree. If you want to raise some fry, spend about $30-$50 and set up a 10G tank to start with. If you want to raise them to juvie or adult size, you'll eventually need atleast a 29G or bigger.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Mixing newborn fry with older fry immediately is high risk. Better to keep them separate for a month and then it might be OK.


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## Terrence23 (Oct 2, 2008)

I find demasoni fry to be really mean fish even for mbuna. At the same time, Acei fry tend to be smaller and more fragile than other mbuna fry. That makes for a bad combination. I have a 46 gallon growout tank with lots of <1" msobo deep and demasoni fry and they will gang up in packs and slaughter any smaller fry that go in the tank within minutes. This makes keeping lots of fry pretty frustrating unless one likes the hassle of having multiple growout tanks.

Definately keep fry of different sizes separated from each other.


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## Doane (Jun 19, 2007)

As far as raising fry I have come to a couple understandings that has GREATLY increased my success rate raising fry. I can't take credit for any of this, my local Cichlid Association (Capital Cichlid Association) had a speaker come in and I took a lot from that lecture.

1. Raising fry in HUGE tanks is bad. You need to feed them so much more to have them find the food. (I made this mistake a couple of times) So this speaker suggested that I get a 2.5g tank and while they are small keep them in there. Then I don't need to put in as much food to get the same saturation. This also makes water changes A LOT easier because I take water from my 120 in just two cups. This has been largly successful for me.

2. When the fish get to about 1/2"to 3/4" you move them into a 10g that is about 1/2 full. As they get bigger you can add more water. The idea here is you make the food easer to find. Keep doing water changes. I leave my no spill setup and right next to my 10g with my fry. It gets daily / bi-daily water changes.

3. Never Mix Fry (cross species) He said that if at all possible, keep fish of the same species and size together.

4. Once bigger go to a larger tank (29g min)

This has so far worked out really really really well for me.


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

Doane said:


> As far as raising fry I have come to a couple understandings that has GREATLY increased my success rate raising fry. I can't take credit for any of this, my local Cichlid Association (Capital Cichlid Association) had a speaker come in and I took a lot from that lecture.
> 
> 1. Raising fry in HUGE tanks is bad. You need to feed them so much more to have them find the food. (I made this mistake a couple of times) So this speaker suggested that I get a 2.5g tank and while they are small keep them in there. Then I don't need to put in as much food to get the same saturation. This also makes water changes A LOT easier because I take water from my 120 in just two cups. This has been largly successful for me.
> 
> ...


i got my weekends mixed up and missed that meeting.... thats the one i really wanted to go to. anyway thanks for filling me in.

the fry are doing just fine together in the bowl. no problems at all now. i had them in something else but my house has been getting so cold i figured it would be better to float them in my heated main tank until they got a little bigger instead of having them freeze next to it. i'll eventually put them in a 10 gal that i have.

one more question...

did they mention if the tank should be empty or not. my first batch of demasoni chewed each others tails off and they had sand rocks plants in a 10g and it was only 8 fry. now that they are all cramped in a bowl with more of them they are doing fine.


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

I agree that staged grow outs are best, but the whole mixing fry I don't understand. As long as they're roughly the same size they can go with one another. I've grown out saulosi, albino taiwan reef, lithobates, and fryeri all in the same tank. I've also had 0 deaths while growing out fry after I learned about not putting newly spat fry in with 1/2" fry.

My grow out tanks are: 20g up to 1/2". 29g until 1". 55g over 1".


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## Terrence23 (Oct 2, 2008)

Doane said:


> 1. Raising fry in HUGE tanks is bad. You need to feed them so much more to have them find the food. (I made this mistake a couple of times) So this speaker suggested that I get a 2.5g tank and while they are small keep them in there. Then I don't need to put in as much food to get the same saturation. This also makes water changes A LOT easier because I take water from my 120 in just two cups. This has been largly successful for me.
> 
> 2. When the fish get to about 1/2"to 3/4" you move them into a 10g that is about 1/2 full. As they get bigger you can add more water. The idea here is you make the food easer to find. Keep doing water changes. I leave my no spill setup and right next to my 10g with my fry. It gets daily / bi-daily water changes.
> 
> ...


I'm sure this is good advice, but #1 and #3 don't make any sense to me.

What's wrong with a large grow out tank? I use an old 46 gallon bowfront tank for fry and they have no trouble finding food or anything else. Using a 2.5 gallon tank actually seems like a really bad idea to me since it would be big hassle to keep water conditions pristine for messy fish like cichlids. And the smaller tanks are more prone to sudden temperature fluctuations.

As for #3, my grow out tank currently has four species of fry living together. Cyno White Tops, Demanosi, Acei Ngara and Msobo Deep are all doing well and living as peacefully as is possible with cichlids.


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## wheatbackdigger (May 11, 2008)

Yellow labs, lab "hongi", demasoni, red zebras, rusties and as of last week Melanochromis parallelus fry ranging from two to six weeks in a 29g. Once they hit six weeks they go into a mixed 55g. Leave the newly release fry in a breeder net for a week or two and then release them in the tank with the older fry. Zero deaths with a mix of six species. Roughly 90 fry total


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## Doane (Jun 19, 2007)

The problem that this professional breeder told me, is that in larger tanks its harder for them to find food. In a small tank, none of it goes to waste. Also, in a small tank its not harder to keep water conditions pristine because you are drawing from the larger tank. The reality, (this pro speaker) said, is that in the 40g I was holding them in made it too hard for them at such a young age to find food.

I don't know your credientials but I am simply going off of what this breeder told me. He said its the fastest way to grow the fry.

As far as mixing the species alot of the cichlids actually have different temperments. I don't think its too hard to find small tanks to put these fish in.

I just go off the advise I was given, which for me, has had great results.


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## Ravenatnm (Mar 20, 2008)

I am new to breeding too. I just had my first holding Acei spit 45 fry. I have her setup in a 30 with a sponge filter and a few algae covered rocks and some PVC on a bare bottom tank. It is day 9, and 14 of the fry have either died or been a head and a ribbon body. I pulled the ones that weren't eating out and fed them to the big guys. So, I don't know why they weren't eating. There was dust sized food bits all over the bottom for them to eat. The others are getting big really fast. 
Is this a typical experience? It looks like I am at 69% (31 of 45) of fry surviving as the ones I have left right now are big and strong looking.


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

thanks for all of your insight everyone. the fish are doing fine. i wouldnt mix fry or juvies together that wouldnt go together as adults but if the fish live together as adults there is no reason the less agressive juvies cant live together. i understand have the fry in a small tank for the first month while they have trouble finding food but after that and when you have so many(90) like the one guy i would want them in a larger tank that can handle to biological load better. thanks again for all of you help.

i'm leaving the country for 3 months so when i get back my fry are going to be huge...lol wish them luck while there in the care of my family


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## dementedarego (May 8, 2008)

The Being unable to find food in a large tanks make sense to me if it is a small batch of fry. If you throw in to batches of 40 fry each I dont think it matters. The Idea of not mixing fry Is unjustifiable. I grow out fry in tanks with 2-5 other species in the tank. As long as you can tell the fry apart (dont mix peacocks) and you will be okay. They just have to be close in age/size.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

SpeedFreak, part of your problem may be that you don't have any water circulation inside the bowl. If the water isn't filtered or circulated, there won't be any oxygen in it for the little ones. How long do you plan to keep them like this? Just want to make sure you understand that it won't work long temperament/aggression wise, either...


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

they were all moved into a 10 g tank with nothing more then a sandy bottom heater and two under sand air thingies so there's plenty of water moving around in there. they were struggling to swim. now i'm just hoping they will be ok while i'm away. 3 months from now they'll be looking pretty good


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