# Fish Floating at the top of tank



## aandreasen63 (Jan 21, 2014)

Hello I have a 75 gallon fish aquarium with african cichlids I have:

2 Malawi golden 
1 Albino of the malawi
2 blue malawi
1 firefish
1 strawberry peacock
1 ob peacock
1 bi peacock
1 acei cichlid
2 syno catfish

I have done several water test and everything is coming up normal, no nitrites or ammonia, ph is about an 8.0, and nitrates are at about 20, I have only had the tank for about 3 months tops, and I did my first water change yesterday taking out about 15 gal. The fish seem to be hovering at the top front of the aquarium, they have been doing this since before the water change. I have lost two fish in the past two days, I'm not sure what is going on but I don't want to loose more! They just stay at the top of the tank, the few fish that aren't really bad try and swim around but when they do they kind of flick and twitch. I don't really see any white spots on them pointing to ick (is it just hard to see? would that be causing them to be at the top?) I have two filters at the top and a heater, are they not getting enough oxygen, do I need some kind of aerator in there? I have been feeding them zoo med spirulina flakes, then I added some cichlid pellets, and some protein pellets( not sure what brand it has a yellow x on the bottle) because the fish store said I need food that will fall to the bottom for the cat fish, everything seemed to start going south when I added in the pellet food. I have looked up online and nothing seems to pertain directly to me, please help!!


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## Sparrow19 (May 31, 2013)

1 water change in 3 months? Yikes, I'll go ahead and get this started as many people are going to be upset at that, ha. You need to be doing at least about a 25% water change every week. I'd for sure add an air stone, it may not be the problem, but for sure couldn't hurt.

But for the time being, I'd do a FULL water change, and make sure to get "Prime" to dechlorinate the water. Good Luck..


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## oleskool (Jan 1, 2014)

To answer some of your questions, your fish seem like they may have ick. If they are scraping of the rocks in the tank that is a sign. You are not changing water enough. With a well established, well filtered, way under stocked (1 or 2 fish) you may get away with one in three months. What are the dimensions of your tank? Is it long, or tall? Do you have a lfs that will check your water for you? You could have a bad test kit, or may be reading it incorrectly. Sounds like you may need to move the water around more too. Pull your heater for a few hours see if that helps. If you haven't changed water in three months you may not have done any filter maintenance either. Clean your filter. Does your filter have good flow? This is what I would do. Hope it helps.


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## aandreasen63 (Jan 21, 2014)

well I didn't do a water change for so long because I was cylicing the tank, for part of those three months, but I still went to long, the nitrates never went high so I didn't think that it needed it, I know better now. As far as doing a full water change, wouldn't that take out all my beneficial bacteria? I also do have the prime, but does that work instantly or do I need to let it sit for a couple hours before putting it in the tank?

the demensions are 48x18x20? I think something like that, its the standard 75 gal. I have the freshwater test kit that you put the drops in the test tubes, I though the same thing maybe it was a bad kit, so I took a water sample to two different pet shops where they both said the levels where fine (the same that I got at home). I have two aqueaon 75 filters one on each side, they seem to have good flow. Clean my filter as in run the filters under the sink?

as far as if they do have ick, I have read that you can turn the temperature up in the tank and add salt is that the best way to treat the tank? And does the ick explain why they are hovering at the top of the tank? Also should I do another partial water change today? I don't really feel comfortable doing a full water change as I think that would do more harm then good and ill in turn have a nitrite spike, but I could be wrong?


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## Sparrow19 (May 31, 2013)

By full water change, I just main drain it down to a few inches, enough that they fish can still move. Then add prime and fill it up. It wont hurt your bacteria, and never had an issue with Prime needing time, it works instantly. Don't over dose it, do as follows on the bottle. I'd also add an air stone bubbler, and make sure you have good surface movement.


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## aandreasen63 (Jan 21, 2014)

Sparrow19 said:


> By full water change, I just main drain it down to a few inches, enough that they fish can still move. Then add prime and fill it up. It wont hurt your bacteria, and never had an issue with Prime needing time, it works instantly. Don't over dose it, do as follows on the bottle. I'd also add an air stone bubbler, and make sure you have good surface movement.


my syno catfish just came out from hiding and I noticed some white stuff on him almost like tiny grains of salt, so I am going to the local fish store to pick up some medication, I would love to do the heat/salt treatment but I want to give them quick relief. should I still do another water change? *** heard sucking the bottom helps in case there are any parasites that have gone to the bottom, my water is set at 76 degrees which is what the fish store told be was ideal for africans, is that correct should I change this while treating for the ich?

thanks everyone for all your help.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Turn your temp up to at least 80. The life cycle of ich slows down in cooler water and you want to catch it in the free swimming stage. I've always kept my Mbuna at 79-80 and have never had problems with the temperature.
You do seem to be suffering from some sort of illness caused by newbie-itis. You should have been changing 30-50% of your water per week.

Also, protein pellets are a BIG no no for the kind of fish you have. With the mix of fish you have, you should be feeding a vegetarian food and nothing else. Get your hands on some Dainichi Veggie FX or Veggie Deluxe. (Ebay/Amazon). It's the best Mbuna/Hap/Peacock food out there. Your peacocks need more protein but you can't address that if you're keeping them with Mbuna. Just feed them a veggie food. Trust me.

For your synos, who do need more protein, feed at night when the lights are off, and use a plastic tube to get the food down to the bottom for the catfish. Make sure the cichlids can't see it and don't go for it.

By the way, you should really figure out what kind of fish you have.

Malawi golden 
1 Albino of the malawi
2 blue malawi

None of those are proper names.


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## aandreasen63 (Jan 21, 2014)

pablo111 said:


> Turn your temp up to at least 80. The life cycle of ich slows down in cooler water and you want to catch it in the free swimming stage. I've always kept my Mbuna at 79-80 and have never had problems with the temperature.
> You do seem to be suffering from some sort of illness caused by newbie-itis. You should have been changing 30-50% of your water per week.
> 
> Also, protein pellets are a BIG no no for the kind of fish you have. With the mix of fish you have, you should be feeding a vegetarian food and nothing else. Get your hands on some Dainichi Veggie FX or Veggie Deluxe. (Ebay/Amazon). It's the best Mbuna/Hap/Peacock food out there. Your peacocks need more protein but you can't address that if you're keeping them with Mbuna. Just feed them a veggie food. Trust me.
> ...


*update I went to the local pet store and picked up tetra parasite guard, they said that this would be my best bet because it gets rid of inside and outside parasites. I am putting that in as I am writing this (I am waiting to pre dissolve the tablets) they seem to be doing a little better (not swimming at the top) hopefully this will help. I also turned the temperature to 79 degrees( which could possibly be helping too?) should I go higher with the temperature? Thanks for the tube suggestion thats a great idea and I didn't even think of that! I will definitely do that. I only bought the protein because the guy at the fish store recommend it to me. I will definitely order some of that food offline until it gets here what should I feed them?? I did a little more reaserch I have 2 Melanochromis auratus 1 abino Melanochromis auratus and 2 blue Melanochromis auratus (is that a melanochromis johannii?) 
None of those are proper names.[/quote]


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Tetra Parasite Guard isn't a medication I would use for Ich. It doesn't contain the necessary ingredients. Look for something with formalin or malachite green, such as Seachem Paraguard, Kordon Rid-Ich+. Some meds may stain decorations or silicone.


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## Ben_dover (Feb 11, 2014)

Oh man that doesn't sound well at all. If your fish are on the brink of death do not hesitate to crank that heater up to 84-85F ! 
Remove all your activated carbon filter media, do a 50% water change DAILY (with treated and equal temp water of course) and add some API Aquarium Salt and API Super Ich Cure. Do Not stop this treatment until you see the ich is completely gone! Chances are you already lost a few fish and might lose more but you might be able to save some if you follow these instructions!
If your tank is in really bad water parameters, it is safe to use 5 times the reccomended dose of Seachem Prime with one of your water changes. 
To be on the safe side dont feed your fish more than once every 3 days until the water parameters are back to normal and your fish are functioning normal. 
When you do your water changes make sure to gravel vac the gravel thoroughly! Good Luck!


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Ben_dover said:


> Oh man that doesn't sound well at all. If your fish are on the brink of death do not hesitate to crank that heater up to 84-85F !
> Remove all your activated carbon filter media, do a 50% water change DAILY (with treated and equal temp water of course) and add some API Aquarium Salt and API Super Ich Cure. Do Not stop this treatment until you see the ich is completely gone! Chances are you already lost a few fish and might lose more but you might be able to save some if you follow these instructions!
> If your tank is in really bad water parameters, it is safe to use 5 times the reccomended dose of Seachem Prime with one of your water changes.
> To be on the safe side dont feed your fish more than once every 3 days until the water parameters are back to normal and your fish are functioning normal.
> When you do your water changes make sure to gravel vac the gravel thoroughly! Good Luck!


Have we established for sure that it's ich? I'd like to see pictures.


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## Tejay (Jan 22, 2013)

Btw - the reason why the nitrate level was 20 is probably because the test kit bottles were not shaken enough before hand.

Honestly, with the API kits, you have to really shake them (for like 30 seconds).

I used to get low nitrates as well until I did this.

Just thought that should be added.


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## aandreasen63 (Jan 21, 2014)

I know this was a late response but I did want to write an update I ended up losing quite a bit of fish. Oddly enough the only ones that does we're the most recent batch I bought and all from the same pet store I called and asked if that was typical and they said that they were having some issues in their shop and that they would give me a full refund or replacement of fish. Ha I took the refund sorry I wasn't fully confident in the news et of fish I would have gotten. I am not 100% she what the illness was that they had but boy did they drop like flies even with all the treatments I did. I did the parasite guard two days in a row with a 50% water change each day, then that didn't seem to help any so I bought the ich treatment (that totally stained everything green btw is there anything to get rid of this?) idk of this helped or not they still continued to die. Then I noticed on my syno (which is the only one I ever saw anything on) the tiny white specks which I thought were ich were looking more like cotton wool so back to the store I went I treated for this that day and by the next morning the syno was dead. After I got him out I kind of gave up I mean nothing was working I left the carbon filters out for about two days after that and never lost another fish. I had maybe 5 fish after everything which were my original 5 I used to cycle the tank. Like I said all the ones that died were the most recent ones I put in there from that pet store. I have no idea what the heck happened so I let my tank rest until about two days ago where I added some new additions and everything is great. I would also like to add I have two bubblers I'm the tank now and I am doing weekly water changes at 20% because I do have quite a bit of fish now. Thanks everyone for all your help!!


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

do 50% a week, not 20%. Get some Seachem Purigen. It will help lower nitrates. It's cheap and you can recharge it over and over.

There's nothing you can do to get rid of the stained silicone. It's there forever.

Next time you use medication, take the carbon out beforehand and leave it out. Only use carbon to remove medication. You should not be using carbon under normal circumstances as it pulls trace minerals out of the water which is bad for fish. Never use carbon for longer than 3-4 weeks or it will leech everything it has collected back into the water.


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## aandreasen63 (Jan 21, 2014)

pablo111 said:


> do 50% a week, not 20%. Get some Seachem Purigen. It will help lower nitrates. It's cheap and you can recharge it over and over.
> 
> There's nothing you can do to get rid of the stained silicone. It's there forever.
> 
> Next time you use medication, take the carbon out beforehand and leave it out. Only use carbon to remove medication. You should not be using carbon under normal circumstances as it pulls trace minerals out of the water which is bad for fish. Never use carbon for longer than 3-4 weeks or it will leech everything it has collected back into the water.


So you're saying to use the perigean instead of the carbon filters? or just don't use carbon filters? 
Also I did pull the filters out before I put the medication in, I must not have stated it clearly above


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## Thalas_shaya (Mar 10, 2014)

Yup, he's saying don't use carbon at all on a regular basis. The only reason to use carbon is to filter something out (like medication) that you've put in the water and now want to remove.
And since you'll have some free filter space with the carbon out, go ahead and fill that space with Purigen. It'll help keep your nitrates under control.



> As far as doing a full water change, wouldn't that take out all my beneficial bacteria? I also do have the prime, but does that work instantly or do I need to let it sit for a couple hours before putting it in the tank?


No, water changes won't hurt your bacteria colony. The beneficial bacteria are *strictly* sessile (i.e.: attached to stuff) and only live in biofilms that grow in/on your filter media and substrate and decor. This is why you want to have a first stage physical filter that you clean frequently, and a second stage bio filter that you clean infrequently/never. If your physical filter is doing its job of catching muck and mulm, you shouldn't need to clean your bio filter media (much), and the biofilm should grow thick and complex and active and do a GREAT job reducing your ammonia and nitrite.

And I think someone said this above, but Prime works pretty much instantly, certainly within a few dozen seconds.


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