# Aqueon or Python



## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Which is a better water changer, Aqueon or Python ? I think even JBL and Hagen have one. Are there any other brands manufacturing good water changers ???


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Aqueon. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: I was a Python user for years. The piece that connects to the faucet, whatever it's called, has many pieces and leakage points. Very poor design. I needed to replace it because mine leaked constantly and could only find the Aqueon so picked one up. Very impressed. Much, much better design. Basically one piece, no leakage points. There's a diffuser piece that unscrews for easy cleaing, but that's it. Also, there's a simple lever to open and close instead of wrestling with that 'bell' thing on the Python that you have to twist and raise or lower. And if you need to clean the Python out, you have to get out a screwdriver and take it apart. And it's not even a Philips head. :x What were they thinking about? I have also read on another forum that Python is going out of business and parts are getting harder to come by. I'd avoid them like the plague.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

I have the Aqueon and the Marina Aquavac. I'd recommend the Aqueon. The Marina has very solid fittings but the Aqueon is a simpler design and is solid enough. I've been using it for almost a year and have had no problems.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

I use a python,caution do not try to overtighten anything,it will break,and replacement parts are expensive,replace a few fittings,you might as well of bought a new one because it costs about the same :x


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Anyways, I have been watching the operation of the Aqueon on YouTube and have a few questions regarding its operation.

1. I saw that the vaccum is created by opening the faucet which then sucks the water from the tank. In that case, since the faucet is already open, wont it lead to wastage of water since both tap & tank water is flowing and specially if the tank is large.

2. How long does it take to drain out the water ? An approximate timing/gallon will do.

Thanks.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

1. Yes that is what is happening with all power vacuums. The water flowing from the faucet creates a venturi which draws the water through the hose. The Aqueon's valve system is slightly more efficient than the Python and is loads more efficient than the Lee's (but that is due to the gravel guard on the Lee's which is a flow restrictor). For every gallon of tank water drained about 3-4 gallons of tap water goes down the drain. Water is however very cheap (my water bill was $112 for the last quarter in which we used 9000 gallons) so there isn't much cost involved.

If your aquarium water level is higher than the faucet you can always use the faucet to start the siphon and then turn it off and let gravity take over. However, your drain rate will slow down. I hook up my Aqueon water changer to my basement utility tub and use it to drain my tanks on my main floor that way. But when I am doing tanks in the basement I let the water run to keep the flow up.

2. Aqueon drains about 8 gallons per minute, Python about 7.5 gallons per minute, Lee's about 4 gallons per minute. All when used on a faucet with 70 psi water pressure through 25' of tubing.

Andy


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Thanks Narwhal72.

Will the suction also suck in the sand through the tube. I have sugar sized sandblasting silica sand and wouldnt like it to get depleted.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

What Andy said. :thumb: My water costs about $8 for 1000 gallons.



> Will the suction also suck in the sand through the tube. I have sugar sized sandblasting silica sand and wouldnt like it to get depleted.


Yes, vaccuming sand is tricky. I don't use the 'gravel' tube. I've taken that off and replaced it with a narrower acrylic tube. You have to hold it over the sand to pick up anything on the sand. You can do the same with the hose after removing the gravel tube, but I found it harder to conrol.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

If you have room under the faucet,you could put a container ,it will catch the sand,make sure its as wide as possible or tall


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Thanks Tim. Well most of the debris remains on sand floor and there might be some below it too. Beside any gas formation inside the sand bed.

How do I take care of that during water changes ? Do I stir up the sand prior to siphoning and then do the water change ???


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

I vaccuum everything off the top,and then stir up the sand


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> How do I take care of that during water changes ? Do I stir up the sand prior to siphoning and then do the water change ???


My solution was to adjust sand levels. In my fish room, I have almost none. If fish like to sift or dig, etc. I'll give them what they need. Otherwise, bare bottom tank or just enough to cover the bottom. Depends on the fish. Some seem to really pollute the sand more than others, so it's a case by case how and how often to deal with it.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Heer's a pic of the Python modification. You can make the tubes shorter/longer as needed, or even heat them up and bend them, flare the end, or whatever.










I did the same for my other drain hoses.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Thanks Tim for the pictures.

The suction head supplied by Aqueon works great with gravel. I just wanted to similar result (the dirt being sucked out whilst the gravel falls back by gravity) with sand substrate. Stirring up the sand might even lead to some of the dirt getting below the sand surface.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I have sand in a few of my tanks. I replace the normal 10" gravel tube with the 18" extension (you can also use longer if that works for you). This allows me to vacuum sand without an issue.

I stick the tube straight down into the sand until it lifts the sand a little bit and then lift and tilt it 45 degrees. The heavier sand tumbles and settles back to the bottom and the finer silt and debris goes up to the top and down the drain. I do get some sand into the sink but it's not much and it's usually because I was too slow with the tilting.

The longer gravel tube is the key as it gives you more time with the low velocity water flow to let it tumble back down than the short tube.

Andy


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi,

I think you have your answer but I am currently using a python, I intend to create a DYI option once I have the free time but at the moment the problem is the metal adapter that takes the taps, defuser threading to the python standard thread size easily damages the plastic valve connector. The system when under pressure will spray water great distances and my work around is to tie a wash tower about the join.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

I have aqueon. I have used python in the past with no troubles. I did break a piece that connects to my faucet on my aqueon but super glue and clamps fixed it no trouble.

I thought....seriously thought about contacting a plumbing manufacturing plant and working out the numbers on what it would cost to mass produce either brass or stainless steel connects to the faucet. Basically using the same design with some slight modifications and obtaining a patent. I know for a fact that I would pay an additional $15-20 to buy a siphon system that used brass/stainless steel versus plastic.

I may still do it.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

Get a small jobbing shop(machine shop) that has a CNC lathe,give them the specs and get a quote,at least this way,youre taking out the middle man


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

newforestrob said:


> Get a small jobbing shop(machine shop) that has a CNC lathe,give them the specs and get a quote,at least this way,youre taking out the middle man


That is a good idea. Would you pay an extra $15-20 for a better quality siphon that was virtually indestructible?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

13razorbackfan said:


> Would you pay an extra $15-20 for a better quality siphon that was virtually indestructible?


Yes, considering you'd probably never have to buy another one, I can't imagine who wouldn't.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

zimmy said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > Would you pay an extra $15-20 for a better quality siphon that was virtually indestructible?
> ...


Ok...thanks.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Im happy with my Python. I heard they filed for bankruptcy and went out of business this past year though so id definitely buy a Aqueon.



13razorbackfan said:


> I thought....seriously thought about contacting a plumbing manufacturing plant and working out the numbers on what it would cost to mass produce either brass or stainless steel connects to the faucet.


Are you talking about the main drain / fill piece that screws onto the brass faucet adapter?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Sub-Mariner said:


> Im happy with my Python. I heard they filed for bankruptcy and went out of business this past year though so id definitely buy a Aqueon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly what I am talking about.

Make it brass or stainless steel. My plastic aqueon broke and had to superglue it.

Also....I do a lot of water changes and use the heck out of it. I need something more durable.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I think you'll find that it's going to cost a whole lot more to make something like that than you're thinking. But if you can make it cheaply enough to sell it for $15 and make a profit, I'd buy it too.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

prov356 said:


> I think you'll find that it's going to cost a whole lot more to make something like that than you're thinking. But if you can make it cheaply enough to sell it for $15 and make a profit, I'd buy it too.


No...I meant $15-20 on top of what you normally pay for a good siphon hose that you hook up to your sink. I paid I think around $50 for mine. So it would be $65 in stead of $50.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

I suggest not to make it out of brass,its a really soft metal,stainless would be good,but then harder metal to machine,which would drive up the price :-? 
I know they sell the brass universal threaded adapter for the faucet,that alone cost me $15, if I remember correctly


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I hate to rain on your parade but I have some bad news for you.

1. it wouldn't be patentable because the invention already exists. Changing materials does not make it unique.

2. There are 8 plastic components (not counting the faucet adapters) that make up the faucet pump and three O rings. The parts would need to be redesigned so they could be cut on a lathe (you can't cut long tubes, hose barbs, or threads on a CNC machine). This is going to cost several thousand dollars just to make one prototype. With design time and engineering labor I would put it at about $10-$15,000 easily.

IF you intend to manufacture it you can figure in an additional $50,000+ for tooling to make molds. Although it would probably be cheaper to lathe from steel billet. Your still going to end up with a final part that costs more than $100 (probably $500 since the volume would be so low for a part like this). Which would price it so far out of the price range as to make it unmarketable.

Yes steel parts may last longer. But there is a point of diminishing returns. The cost of one long lasting part is more than a life time supply of the plastic replacement parts.

Andy


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## rich_t (Nov 26, 2009)

13razorbackfan said:


> newforestrob said:
> 
> 
> > Get a small jobbing shop(machine shop) that has a CNC lathe,give them the specs and get a quote,at least this way,youre taking out the middle man
> ...


I sure would.


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