# Juvenile Frontosa holding, need help please!!!



## chad311k9 (Feb 11, 2007)

I bought a juvenile frontosa a couple weeks ago that is holding eggs. she has a tank all to herself right now. i really want to get some fry from her, but she is so young (and small.) I think she may end up swallowing the eggs. On the other hand I think she is too small to strip her eggs. i am 6'7" and have very large hands, fingers, etc... and I just can't decide what to do. my gut says let her try it on her own. from head to tail she must be only 2 inches long. i'm looking for someone with good frontosa experience to steer me in the right direction. the only other thing i have observed was when she spit one egg out(small orangish color.) not sure what that meant. thank you, chad.


----------



## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

The smallest frontosa I have for holding eggs is 3.5".

I am almost sure your frontosa is not holding. She/he could be holding air during the transport or introducing it to a new tank. It happens quite often with the new fish. Check to see if you can see eggs in its mouth. Another easy way to tell is: 1) frontosa holding eggs will swim and stay normal position. 2) frontosa holding air in its mouth will slightly pointing down trying not to let the air bubble escape.


----------



## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Are you sure your Frontosa is a Frontosa? There are other cichlids that have "similar" coloration (ie. Neolamprologus tretocephalus). Got a pic?


----------



## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Razzo said:


> Are you sure your Frontosa is a Frontosa? There are other cichlids that have "similar" coloration (ie. Neolamprologus tretocephalus). Got a pic?


Opps, Neolamprologus tretocephalus is a substrate spawner. Got pics?


----------



## chad311k9 (Feb 11, 2007)

camera cable is broke, so sorry no pics. 100% sure she is holding. as i stated earlier, i seen her spit one egg out, and I can see a lot of orange/red in the back of her throat. mouth is so small it is hard to see any definition. also 100% sure she is a frontosa. i can also see a reddish "tint" from the exterior of her body, where the eggs would be located in her mouth. jaw is also protruding. the other 20 fronts in the tank I bought her from all had normal looking jaws. since her mouth is so small and she has held this long already, I think I will avoid stripping the eggs. i know it seems unlikely she could be sexually mature so young, so i am also baffled, but excited. she is no bigger than 2 nickels side by side. maybe i can borrow a camera from my neighbor, i really want people to see this, since it's sort of a "see it to believe it" kind of thing, you know, like bigfoot.


----------



## Alex0607 (Jul 26, 2003)

Please post the pics. Love to see it.


----------



## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

wow, sounds like she is holding. That would be the smallest frontosa fish I have ever heard of holding. I would like to see a measurment placing next to glass and a picture of her. It could be an amazing photo.

Keep us update of how she is doing.


----------



## chago (Mar 4, 2008)

this is super interesting!!!, please keep us informed!


----------



## bacpoo (May 24, 2006)

Very interesting. We can prove the old timers and avid front keepers that they could be wrong about how young a front can hold. I have had fronts for a long time and have never seen a 2 inch front holding. This is a freak of nature, with my experience and what others say fronts need to be at least 2 yrs old to be mature enough. Males take even longer. Please take a pic of this, otherwise no one will beleive you. I am not saying you are lying but people will be skeptical.


----------



## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

bacpoo said:


> Very interesting. We can prove the old timers and avid front keepers that they could be wrong about how young a front can hold. I have had fronts for a long time and have never seen a 2 inch front holding. This is a freak of nature, with my experience and what others say fronts need to be at least 2 yrs old to be mature enough. Males take even longer. Please take a pic of this, otherwise no one will beleive you. I am not saying you are lying but people will be skeptical.


Actually, I have seen 2 frontosa which are older than 2 years and size = 2" only.

A mature fish doesn't have to be big. Most mature frontosa I see in other people's tank stay pretty much 6-7" for years. My immature burundi was at 6" in the first year...


----------



## chad311k9 (Feb 11, 2007)

bacpoo said:


> Please take a pic of this, otherwise no one will beleive you. I am not saying you are lying but people will be skeptical.


 truth is i'm skeptical, and i can see with my own eyes! i don't need people on here to believe me, i've already had 3 non-believing LFS employees over to my house to witness this.(good way to get those fish loving little hotty employees over. funny, this fish got me a opcorn: date, lol.) i don't get out of the house much, working on the camera thing.... if only i had some AAA's laying around


----------



## GJx (Mar 13, 2003)

Charles said:


> bacpoo said:
> 
> 
> > Very interesting. We can prove the old timers and avid front keepers that they could be wrong about how young a front can hold. I have had fronts for a long time and have never seen a 2 inch front holding. This is a freak of nature, with my experience and what others say fronts need to be at least 2 yrs old to be mature enough. Males take even longer. Please take a pic of this, otherwise no one will beleive you. I am not saying you are lying but people will be skeptical.
> ...


Well aslong as I've kept Fronts, I can honestly say that I've never seen a 2" mature female. That would throw me off if ever I was to see it. I'D LOVE TO SE THAT PIC!!!!


----------



## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

me too... picture with like a penny taped on the outside of the tank to see the relative size...

It is just hard to believe a 2" frontosa holding eggs. With my experience, I can raise them from egg to 2" in less than 4-5 months...


----------



## chad311k9 (Feb 11, 2007)

best pickup line ever...... "wanna come over and check out my frontosa?" lol!!!


----------



## chad311k9 (Feb 11, 2007)

how do i post a picture? do i need a special program? if i do, i would rather email *Charles* the pictures to post, rather than download more stuff on my computer. cheap camera so pics won't be very good. she is camera shy so i've been having trouble getting a good photo. will try a little later for a good shot.[/img]


----------



## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

you can email me the picture and I can post it for you.


----------



## chad311k9 (Feb 11, 2007)

ok i tried with my son's $20 walmart camera, and the program that transfers the pictures keeps shutting down(nero photoshoot). i'm sorry to all for all the suspense, but it's gonna be a couple days before I can get some pictures up. charles, sounds good, i'll PM you when I get the photos. by the way i looked at you spawn log, and noticed your eggs were a different color. mine seem to be reddish orange. does that mean they are not fertile?


----------



## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

white = not fertile. Orange is actually sounds pretty good. How many days is it now?


----------



## GJx (Mar 13, 2003)

I assure you Chad, it's worth waiting for.

Thanks

LJx


----------



## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

I just read this post. Facinating. What ever happened ? She still holding ? Any pics, even crappy ones ? Thanks, CG


----------



## pandeka_minang (Apr 7, 2008)

Razzo said:


> Are you sure your Frontosa is a Frontosa? There are other cichlids that have "similar" coloration (ie. Neolamprologus tretocephalus). Got a pic?


can yoe help me to make different between juvenile frontosa and Neolamprologus tretocephalus, because it looks alike, same colour, same striped, same fin etc.


----------



## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

I have studied my fronts and pics of these other fish. Here is what i noticed.
Fronts have the pectoral fin in or at the first black stipe past the eye stripe. The other fish has a extra full black stripe before that pectoral fin.

So, NOT COUNTING THE EYESTIPE, i noticed that the fronts FIRST black stripe on the body has the pectoral fin located IN OR AT THAT FIRST STRIPE. (LOOKING AT THE WHOLE FISH IN PICS IT WILL HAVE ONE FULL BLACK STRIPE (EYE STRIPE) THEN THE PECTORAL FIN located in or at the second black stripe)

The other fish has two FULL black stripes BEFORE the pectoral fin. These stripes appear on the head area. It also has a slightly different head/jaw look but is very hard to spot when compared to tiny front fry.

So if you look at side by side pics of these two fish, the frontosa will have just the eye stripe and the first black stripe on body will have the pectoral fin. The other fish will have two full black stripes located on the head area then the pectoral fin after.

I hope that is not too confusing for you. I should say that the 7 stripe frontosa might look different because of its extra stripe but i dont have a pic handy to check against the other fronts.


----------



## Bearfan (Dec 17, 2007)

What ever happened? Was the little girl hoding? Did we get pictures?


----------



## cichlidgirl1 (Sep 17, 2007)

yeah, i never heard back. Curious to know what was decided and if the fish was holding or not


----------



## chad311k9 (Feb 11, 2007)

sorry, i've been pretty busy lately, and forgot about this post. turns out she was holding, but the eggs were not fertilized. i ended up having to strip the eggs. they were bright reddish-orange in color, which from what I understand, is not the right color for frontosa eggs. maybe that is an indicator that they are not fertile.


----------

