# Guy from works tank...suggestions



## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

Ok, a guy here at my office decided to set up a tank for his daughter.

Long story short he ended up getting african cichlids.

He has a 10 gallon tank  and from the descriptions of the fish he has given me I am pretty sure he has 1 male red zebra, 1 male kenyi  , and 1 female johanni  .

I suggested to him to remove the Johanni and kenyi and start over with a bigger tank. He says the johanni is beating up on the kenyi...don't think that's gonna last real long. I told him to either do a bigger tank with 3 species (compatible), or just do a bigger tank all male...not sure that would work though because he wants to buy all his fish at the LFS and some species are almost impossible to sex at a juvenile stage.

Ya'll post some suggestions for him so he can read it.


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## morningsky (Apr 22, 2008)

Why not try tropical fish in a ten gallon? I would not keep african cichlids in a ten gallon. There have been a few threads as to what would be suitable. I don't think there are any options? Maybe a few posts with Shellies, but I think most keep them in larger tanks.

I have a ten gallon with cory cats, and tetras I use it as a grow out tank for my fry. I enjoy these fish. The cory cats are really cool.

I would keep advising him to go to larger tank or with community fish.

If he is doing this tank for his daughter I don't think she is going to enjoy the fish killing each other in a ten gallon.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

What I told him initially was that I would not keep africans in less than a 30 gallon cuz there just isn't enough room for them. That being said he still got africans and now wants to know what to do with them.

In my opinion the only option now is to get a bigger tank, or just cut your losses and bring the fish back to walmart and get his money back and go with something less aggressive.


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

He should give them back to the store and get some mollies, platies, neon tetras, and albino cory cats. That is what I had in my first 10 gallon tank when I was 10 years old and they were a great set of fish. Got to watch the mollies have babies even. African cichlids are not starter fish for inexperienced fish keepers. They are animals and it is cruel to do that to them. It is especially upsetting to me, as he is teaching his daughter that such things are acceptable.


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## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

> In my opinion the only option now is to get a bigger tank, or just cut your losses and bring the fish back to walmart and get his money back and go with something less aggressive.


I'd suggest that too, but it kind of sounds like he's not going to listen anyway. :roll: 
Some suggestions for a tank that small would be a selection from these common fish:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aqua ... 1&count=24

The platties would be fun because they are live bearers, would probably produce fry and give them a real thrill. :lol:

Cories _are_ really cool. I imagine that morningsky is very good about water changes and care of the cories in their grow out tank.
But, for the beginners you are dealing with, I feel cories need a minimum 30" tank for a nice school of 6 or more. 
So, in my opinon, unless they get a bigger tank, please don't suggest corydora.
 
hth,


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## bayou_bottom (Mar 30, 2009)

I"m the guy from work... and those are my fish.... Right now I have plans on upping to a 40 gallon tank... My little girl is 2. She don't know if they die or not.... not yet and she looks at them for the whole 30 seconds when we feed them then she is off to watch lazy town or dora... I was told to go with an all male tank. so if I return the female Johanni, I have 2 males. what other males should I try to find locally to put in my tank? Should I send off the Kenyi Also? and just stick with the red zebra? I like the fish I have because of how aggressive they are, how they swim, and how thier feeding habits are.

I don't want guppies and I would like to stick with the more aggressive fish... If im going to do maintance on a tank I want fish that I can enjoy


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

If you want to go with a 40 gallon tank, I think you should probably go with one species. An all male mbuna tank that size is a great challenge, if possible. If you like the red zebra you could do a species tank of them. Otherwise, Saulosi would work well and the boys and girls are different colors. You are going to need to have very few males and a lot of females.

I think you might want to consider jewel cichlids. You could keep a pair in as small as a 20 gallon tank. They are aggressive, and so you really don't want to keep more than a pair. But they are also relatively easy to care for and breed easily as well.

I am surprised you say you want aggressive fish? I like the personalities of cichlids, but try to minimize the aggression to keep them happy and healthy. Too much aggression is not a good thing in a tank and leads to sick and dying fish. If by aggression, you are looking for fish which eat feeder guppies or something (not my thing, but maybe what you are looking for), you might want to read up on oscars.


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## bayou_bottom (Mar 30, 2009)

nah,,, Oscars are too big and by aggression I mean fast swimming around and just always moving I had guppies when i was 10 and scared of the dark and my parents wanted me to have a night light and they are boring to me. You call it personality, maybe I used the wrong words... I have seen srooks tank in action and I like how the fish act. When I bought the fish I did not know what they were typical story... When I brought them home 4 days ago I learned that I like the way they act.... For me to stare at my tank for 30 minutes this morning in awe... I found a connection.

and I really do want healthy fish I don't want missing fins and dead fish


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

OK.. that makes way more sense. I like "aggressive" fish because I love their personalities, but wish they were less aggressive too.

Try looking at the cookie cutter for the 40 gallon tank. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_40g.php
There are two mbuna set ups mentioned in that.

Good luck... This site is really good for questions.


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## morningsky (Apr 22, 2008)

The original post said you were setting up a tank for your daughter. If it is your tank now you will learn what works and what does not.

Overly aggressive fish = dead fish. Either from injury or sickness.

I started in a 150 gallon with the same fish you have and was unhappy when my fish died. We are just trying to help you have a tank you can enjoy. I don't enjoy sick or dead fish.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

I suggested to him to do a tank like mine (all male) so he could have a larger variety of species, but also expressed that it would be almost impossible buying fish at the LFS since some cichlids are hard to sex until they are more mature.

If you want to do all male best bet is to buy from some place online that you can pick the sex of the fish. To me going to the LFS and just grabbing a bunch of fish is asking for trouble if you have no idea what you are putting in there.


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## bayou_bottom (Mar 30, 2009)

CichlidWhisperer said:


> I am surprised you say you want aggressive fish? I like the personalities of cichlids, but try to minimize the aggression to keep them happy and healthy. Too much aggression is not a good thing in a tank and leads to sick and dying fish. .


I want active fish, something worth my time looking at.... what do you mean by the "personality" feeding habits? how they swim? I donâ€™t understand do the fish hold a good conversation with you

You say you try to keep aggression down... yes killing the other fish is not cool sick fish are not cool... I think we are all here for the same thing. We like a breed of fish and trying to keep them safe to view and give them a semi natural environment.... Thanks for your help Iâ€™ll make sure to order online adult fish when I can afford a big high dollar set up and 200 bucks for fish :fish: thanks for the link to the tank setup

Yes the reason for me getting the tank is because my daughter likes to look at the fish when we go to the pet store. I also want something that is nice for me to view if I have to clean the thing.


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## CichlidWhisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

IME, cichlids are relatively intelligent fish. Most of my fish know when I come in the room that it is me and not someone else. My mbuna come out and beg like puppies for their food and practically jump out of the tank for the food. My tangs have some of the most interesting courting and breeding behaviours. Some of my fish are wonderful parents. My little occies will protect their fry and shells (not being agressive, but protecting their own from intruders and the intruders learn, and they are not injured or beat up.)

I looked up the term Aggression and here is what I found:

"In psychology, as well as other social and behavioral sciences, aggression refers to behavior between members of the same species that is intended to cause pain or harm. Predatory or defensive behavior between members of different species is not normally considered aggression."

While I won't say there isn't the occassional chase and disaggrement, my tanks do not have very much aggression. The fish are very active, but not overly aggressive towards each other. It has taken a lot of learning, reading, and in general investment of time to come to this and I am very proud of it.

This hobby is not cheap, as most people on this site can attest to. That is not to say you can't try and minimize the expenses, but I personally will on take on what I can afford and if a certain situation is out of my price range, I would rather wait until I have the funds instead of doing it half-way. Fish are living creatures, not toy trains. And, I know lots of people who do not mail order fish, but are responsible fish-keepers.


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## webgirl74 (Jan 30, 2009)

You don't need to go as far as ordering fish on-line to get good stock. Not sure where you are in LA, but most major centres have decent fish stores that specialize in fish. Wal-Mart and other big box stores don't tend to take the best care of their fish, and many times don't identify the breed accurately, if at all. As well, you may end up with hybrids from who-knows-what and they might not be compatible with the other fish you have. A 40 gallon is a nice workable size as it's small enough to maintain easily, but big enough to have some interesting fish in. Demasoni are really nice and should be kept in larger groups. As they are a dwarf malawi species though, you can keep more than you'd be able to keep of a different species. They are very colorful and active fish, as most cichlids are. I good thing to do though, is go to the local fish store with a pen and paper and write down names of fish that you like. Bring the list home and research the fish (there are profiles in the library here, and under the profiles heading) to see what size of tank they need, etc. Fish that grow to be 5/6" or more will not be suitable in a 40 gallon tank, so you'll want to choose your stock carefully so that you and your daughter get lots of years of enjoyment out of your tank. Cichlids are great fish and there are endless varieties out there to choose from. Good luck with your tank and let us know if you have any questions along the way.


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## bayou_bottom (Mar 30, 2009)

WOW here we are 5 weeks after the 10 gallon, and then jumped to the "40 gallon" that ended up being only a 20 gallon. I now have a tank that is 18x18x60 how many gallons is that? i was told its 100. Those that were worried about my fish they are still alive and appear happy. I plan to stock up in the distant future working on getting 2 xp3s. Now any one say that is enough filter or should I go with a xp4 and a xp3 or 2 xp4s? i have been reading learning thanks to all who help


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

The Cich-ness has sprung upon him. The tank weighs in at 85 gallons, very decent size. The xp3 is rated at filtering 350 Gallons an hour and is rated for tanks up to 175 gallon tanks, I think you should be fine with just one, unless you are worried about more water flow or want to really overstock your tank. Some people overfilter on purpose, so some may say you should still get both, but I would be comfortable with just one and maybe a powerhead in case you were worried about water flow.


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## bayou_bottom (Mar 30, 2009)

YES IT HAS! its worst than swine flu! I went last night and bought a XP4 and the RENA 300 watt heater that hooks up to the suction line. I only have 3 baskets full of media for now thinking of the extra flow and future expansion. maybe? Now I need to find a way to light this thing up! maybe next week I will splurge again. Some lights and hydor koralia are in the future


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## nipzie (Nov 24, 2008)

I love the inline heaters, I would never go back to submersible ones. It's funny to see you apprehensive to buy a 40, then getting an 85. It happens to us all, then we spend hours online, find this site, read for months, join this site, post on this site, buy more fish, etc.


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## mncherie1 (Mar 27, 2009)

yes it is addictive. I lost interest in my 55 gal a few months back  
finally restocked with some jewels, firemouths and acaras and after having jewel fry I found this site........just to get more info. 
Yeah right, a new 29 gal, 15, 10 and another 55 gal later I am hooked like never before. It's sooo much fun


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## bayou_bottom (Mar 30, 2009)

I think I got a good deal on my tank I bought it and the stand for $150. It also came with some drift wood and rocks but i used filter sand for substrate and filled a whole in the driveway with the rocks the "40 gallon" was really a 20 gallon. guy told me it was larger than what it was. So I had to get a larger tank. same with this one i was told it was a 100 when i bought it.


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