# Just bought a 180 gallon of Craigs... Now to build a stand



## miDnIghtEr20C

Bought that tank of C-List. Now to build a stand for it. Gonna have my friend help me. Otherwise I'd have no idea what to do. If any of you have built your own stand, if you can spare some cool tips or something, that would be great! It's a 6 foot by 2 feet by 2 feet.... beauty of a tank. Some crazing, but not much to worry about at all. He said tank is 4 years old. Tank list for 1500 or so new, got it for 300. Pretty good deal if you ask me. It's acrylic as well.

But ya.. if there's some tips out there for building a stand for this size tank.. please, I'd love to hear some ideas. I saw that one members post where he put in electrical switches and stuff. That was awesome. Great idea.

Anyhoo..here's the tank I bought.


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## lilscoots

Nice, wish my 180 was acrylic. Your tank has the same overflow location as mine did...I didn't like it there so I removed it, plugged the hole and put corner overflows in. I also build my own stand. You can see how my stand was built here http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=260929 I used something called a pocket hole jig to connect the legs to the top and bottom frame but you could always cut a 2x4 to put inside the corner and screw the frame and legs to it like most DIY stands do. Good luck, and we will gladly help answer any questions.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to look over your thread with great action. Ya, I hear this kind of tank is called a peninsula tank. Meant to be like a room divider. Not sure if I'm going to try it that way or not.. probably just the regular way. I want to take advantage of that 2 foot width. Thanks for the reply. Ya I'm stoked. The guy who sold it to me seemed like a great guy and I feel solid he didn't do me wrong. First time I ever bought anything off Craigslist.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

ps... I read that acrylic tanks need a flat bottom on the stand. Unlike glass. So i'll do that too... What kind of wood for the flat bottom you guys do? Just ply wood? Something else? ha.... what a noob I am. **** you Dad! Why didn't you teach me any carpentry skills!!!!11!!ONE!!


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## miDnIghtEr20C

lilscoots said:


> Nice, wish my 180 was acrylic. Your tank has the same overflow location as mine did...I didn't like it there so I removed it, plugged the hole and put corner overflows in. I also build my own stand. You can see how my stand was built here http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=260929 I used something called a pocket hole jig to connect the legs to the top and bottom frame but you could always cut a 2x4 to put inside the corner and screw the frame and legs to it like most DIY stands do. Good luck, and we will gladly help answer any questions.


Just saw your thread.... I hope I can do the great job you did. Tank, stand and fish all look great. I have a 140 gallon tall right now, and I'm moving more than half the fish into the new, and then keeping the smaller guys in there and have them get a chance to color up and get great looking. I have a couple F1 Cynotilapia sp. ''Hara'' Gallireya Reef that at about an inch long look awesome already, but they are sooooooooooooo small compared to the rest of the fish in my tank. Also have a Polit, one of those blue lipped Williamsi (sp) fish and a couple other little guys that would do great with the bigger fish in the new 180.

This is my 140 mixed African tank. I know people frown on mixed... but that's how I roll. The 140 is 60 inches long by 18 wide and 30 tall... so the new 72X24x24 is going to be so much greater with that width and length.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Sorry guys for the 12th post in a row, if I could edit my old post longer than a minute after I post it, I'd just edit it in the last post I made, but my friend who is going to help make the stand, he helped me put in our hardwood floors out here.. not real bamboo, but the one that looks like it, and he said only thing that worries him is the 1300 lbs on the floor. Is there a worry for that on hardwood floor? I guess so huh? Is there something to put under the stand to help with that? meh... if the floor cracks it cracks a bit. F it. Maybe I'll put a rug under it.


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## joescaper1

Is he worried about the flooring or the joists under the flooring? If it is just the flooring, then put a flat bottom on your stand like the top. If it is the joists, then maybe an inspector is in order.

Joe


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## miDnIghtEr20C

I'm going to assume he means the actual wood floor, since he did a lot of the work putting it in. Ha. Probably doesn't want it to crack. I'll suggest what you said. It's concrete under the wood flooring. 1 story house.


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## lilscoots

for the flat top use 3/4" plywood and put some foam insulation on top of it and the tank on top of that, the foam should compensate for any irregularities in your stand. I also have fake wood floor, so like joe suggested above I have a flat bottom on mine to spread the weight.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

lilscoots said:


> for the flat top use 3/4" plywood and put some foam insulation on top of it and the tank on top of that, the foam should compensate for any irregularities in your stand. I also have fake wood floor, so like joe suggested above I have a flat bottom on mine to spread the weight.


Thank you much. I'll tell that to my buddy who's gonna help me. Right now I'm a tad worried about the crazing that I noticed last night. I still haven't filled the tank up all the way, gonna wait till tomorrow. Wanted to wait until I had the stand up to put it on it outside, but I guess as long as my concrete out in the backyard is pretty flat and level I can fill it up out there right?

I've noticed crazing on the short sides of the tank in the corners that run the length.. not crazy bad, but there is some.. and also down a bit. It's also on the long side of the tank too but not so much.. but it is there. So now I'm worried. I just want the tank to run a Year or two free of bursting all over the place. Here's a pic. It's on the tops most... but the water level from the overflow box is under that. So it looks like the crazing on the actual tank part is above the water line. Not sure if that makes a difference. I hope this thing doesn't bust. I'm sure it will bow like a mo fo though.

ps.. that little white/grey mark on the corner is on outside of tank. Like a piece of glue or something. Not in the seam. So not worried about that. Also not worried of the look of the crazing. Just don't want it busting. Again.. only need the tank to last a year or two. Not ten.


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## lilscoots

I can't tell you anything about acrylic crazing because I have no experience with it. As far as putting the tank on concrete, I'd put a layer of foam insulation under it to be safe.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

can i pick that up at home depot? what am i looking for there. Just tell them what I'm doing? What about putting it on a level part of the lawn? Same thing probably eh?


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## dsiple3

You can get it Home Depot or Lowe's. Just ask one of the employees for sheet foam insulation. I always find it next to the pink insulation rolls. The sheets I get are light blue and cost about $11-$12.


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## joescaper1

In acrylic of less than high quality(I do not know if this is true in your case), the microfissures (crazing) are generally caused by ultraviolet radiation(long term sun exposure), although it can result from exposure to oils (maybe grease spatter from being too close to a stove) and petrolium based cleaning solvents.

I do not believe It will fall apart, but keep an eye on the tank for seeping (weeping) through the fissures, could be tomorrow, could be years. If it starts that then it's time to replace it.

Joe


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## miDnIghtEr20C

joescaper1 said:


> In acrylic of less than high quality(I do not know if this is true in your case), the microfissures (crazing) are generally caused by ultraviolet radiation(long term sun exposure), although it can result from exposure to oils (maybe grease spatter from being too close to a stove) and petrolium based cleaning solvents.
> 
> I do not believe It will fall apart, but keep an eye on the tank for seeping (weeping) through the fissures, could be tomorrow, could be years. If it starts that then it's time to replace it.
> 
> Joe


Thanks Joe. So you're saying that it just won't bust and everything will come out flowing all over, and my fish won't fall out like some kind of scene from a wild movie or something?!?!? You put me with a little more ease. It's been a shame. I was all happy when I bought it, looked great... then I noticed the crazing. The seams (sp) have regular crazing, and nothing that covers the whole seam. Just regular. But that crazing on the actual tank part had me worried. I haven't been able to enjoy thinking of how I'll setup my rocks in it or that kind of joy. Maybe now without worrying of it crashing down in one big fall I can finally take some time to enjoy this thing. Think of my rock setup. think of how I love a 2 foot wide 6 foot long tank. Also.. the crazing on the tank part seems to be mostly all above the water line. There's just a little here and there on the tank on the parts where the water would be. Or at least what I can see right now.

Putting the stand together tomorrow I think. Wish me luck. this tank looks solid. Feels solid. No chips. A TruVu 180 3/8 acrylic. Which don't get me started now reading how some people say that's poopy.. but it's a 24 inch tall.. and I hear that's acceptable for 3/8. Meh.. just another thing to worry about instead of enjoying just looking at the pretty tank and thinking of some rock formations.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

dsiple3 said:


> You can get it Home Depot or Lowe's. Just ask one of the employees for sheet foam insulation. I always find it next to the pink insulation rolls. The sheets I get are light blue and cost about $11-$12.


Thank you sir. I believe we are going to HD tomorrow. Thanks again for your guys time to reply.


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## joescaper1

Also.. the crazing on the tank part seems to be mostly all above the water line. There's just a little here and there on the tank on the parts where the water would be.

That actually makes sense of the situation where it sat in front of a window. Along with the UV radiation, there would be no heat sink effect above the waterline; so it overheated as well.

I hope you get the year you want out of it.

Joe


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## joescaper1

Also.. the crazing on the tank part seems to be mostly all above the water line. There's just a little here and there on the tank on the parts where the water would be.

That actually makes sense of the situation where it sat in front of a window. Along with the UV radiation, there would be no heat sink effect above the waterline; so the sun shining through a window overheated it as well.

I hope you get the year you want out of it.

Joe


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## miDnIghtEr20C

joescaper1 said:


> Also.. the crazing on the tank part seems to be mostly all above the water line. There's just a little here and there on the tank on the parts where the water would be.
> 
> That actually makes sense of the situation where it sat in front of a window. Along with the UV radiation, there would be no heat sink effect above the waterline; so the sun shining through a window overheated it as well.
> 
> I hope you get the year you want out of it.
> 
> Joe


That's scares me **** you! Well... we shall see I guess. ****. If it does leak, it won't just bust all over will it? My buddy and I have started the stand for it. Gonna finish it up tomorrow or Sunday and get the tank up on top of it and fill it up. I'll leave it out there for a couple days filled and see how it looks/what we get.

**** Joe... now you have me nervous. The actual seams have some crazing... but normal looking crazing and it doesn't fill the whole seam. But there is that on the top sides and such. ****.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Here's some of the stand so far. Have the base of the stand and the top part done. Gonna need to get the legs up later.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

ps... just text the guy I bought the tank from.. he said water test it for a week, if I'm still nervous he'll take it back no problem. So that's more reassuring for me.


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## joescaper1

You don't meet people like that all the time.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

I told him what I was worried about and he insist that the tank is in great strength but said to bring it back if I was nervous after leak testing for a week or so... He said it's a truvu, built like a tank. The way it looks I totally agree with him. Just scared of that crazing on the actual "glass" part of the tank. The seams look great to me. Crazing...but the seam isn't covered from edge to edge with crazing.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Yo Joe... I was checking out some more crazing pics on the net and came across this one.










Now mine runs on the top of the tank above the water line and this picture she says hers is at the bottom of the tank in the water.

Bob Fenner there responded with a


> <You will likely be fine here functionally. And with water in this tank, the crazing will be much less obvious. Bob Fenner>


http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acraqscratch.htm

The crazing on my tank does not look that bad at all imo, so I'm hoping what Bob says on that site is true! What do you think after seeing the picture of that other tank with that kind of crazing on the bottom? Meh.. anyways, getting closer to getting done with stand. Then I can get a proper water test going for this tank and see what's up. Who knows. The tank is 4 years old... maybe that's as much as it'll get and just stay strong like that. I don't know. Hoping there just some nice stretch marks. :fish:

My stand getting closer. Need to get the 4x4's on the corner going.


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## joescaper1

Like I said earlier, I don't think it will fall apart. Just keep an eye on it.

With the pictures you posted, I will just stick with glass. 

Joe


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Ha.. seriously. But the acrylic is just so light!

But ya, I'm going to save up and then with next years tax returns I'll get a newer tank with the same size. Gonna have to. But I'm getting excited to finish this stand and test it all out. Only problem I think I might have is there's 2 bulk head spots on bottom of tank. I'm not sure if my side 2x4 brace will clip this or not. Dang.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Well.. with Joe's word(also looked you up a bit joe and saw you really do know your stuff..which I had a feeling you did, just wanted to confirm it myself because of such a big tank. Gotta catch them all! I'm a Charizard fan myself  )... reading some of Fenners comments on his site and now getting a response back from TruVu themselves after emailing them and attaching pictures... and they too said nothing to worry about, tank will be fine, I can finally get to enjoying this **** thing and thinking of my rock setup.

Yay.

Now to finish this stand.


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## joescaper1

Thank you for the kind words.

Septile, myself. 

Joe


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## miDnIghtEr20C

I'm not gonna lie.. had to google that one. Hadn't played the game since Gold came out back years ago. My boy is 3 and the other is 1... maybe soon I'll start showing the 3 year old the original episodes soon. Those were great. Meowth, that's right!

Anyhoo.. on topic. Hoping to get the skeleton of the stand up tomorrow and done with that. I'll post pictures up as soon as it's done.


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## dsiple3

Midnight,

Is it too late to change the corner posts for 2x4's rather than 4x4's you mentioned earlier?

Everything I have seen on 4x4 posts for stands concerns me due to the ease they twist. Using a screw strip and 2 2x4's on the corners would make me much more comfortable for the long haul.

It is looking good so far.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Thanks.. haven't put them on yet. I was going off of this build. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... Tank-Stand

If 4x4's are no good for something like this, then by all means I'd love to do it with 2x4's. I still easy have enough to do it. Check how we're interlocking the 4x4's like the one at the link. Not sure if that makes a difference. Hmmmm. didn't know 4x4's were weaker than 2x4's. Thank you for the heads up.


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## joescaper1

Using 2x4's means you do not have to notch the 4x4's. It does take a third 2x4 to support the end rails. You end up with a 3.5" X 5" corner support using 2x4's instead of a 3.5" X 3.5" using a double notched 4x4.

I use 2x4 corners on my stands; because it is easier to construct than notching, not because I am afraid the 4x4 will twist.

Joe


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## dsiple3

My concern isn't strength of the 4x4. A single 4x4 and 2 2x4's will hold the same weight (`16000 lbs). Shoot most manufactured stands use particle board or thinner 1x? in the supports.

The issue is twofold:
1) as mentioned by Joe, notching is a pain in the tookus; 
2) I have never seen a truly straight piece of wood in any lumber yard (this may be a product of the ever changing weather here in North Texas). It is easier to compensate for 1 2x4 bowing slightly or twisting in a corner than for a single 4x4 post.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Sounds good guys. My buddy took those 4x4's to his house because he had the right tools to do that *************** cut job... I'll tell him to use 2x4's that we have left over.. ****, I have seven 10 foot 2x4's here. More than enough. Thanks for the suggestions. We'll probably do it that way.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Yo Joe.. what do you mean by adding the third 2x4. If I use 2x4's now instead of the 4x4 for the corners, do I just set it up the exact same way as the rest of the legs in this picture?










What's the third 2x4? In case i don't hear back from my buddy any time soon, I'd like to know just for my own schooling.


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## lilscoots

The third 2x4 is the additional 2x4 along the short side. like an F, or an L with the two outside and one inside the corner. It would be an additional 2x4 the length of the shorter one.


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## joescaper1

Just the same way you have the others, but the end rails will not have any support. The third one is perpendicular to the double 2x4's corner posts , forming an "L" with the other short support and under the end rails. In order to do the same thing you need to cut two open ended dados in each end of the 4x4's.

Joe

Oops, lilscoots beat me to it.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Thanks guys.  So I'll be needing 8 more.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

This is my 140 as of now... gonna keep my little guys in the 140... bigger guys advance to the 180.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Getting closer and closer to finishing it up!



















And this will be the front, it's going to have 3 doors. Have to screw in rest of those legs and stuff.. then the top goes on and then the plywood on the very top. Almost there!



















Almost done... but the skeleton is up.. need to do some brackets and some other stuff. .but gonna test tank tomorrow. yay!


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## dsiple3

Looking good so far. By my calculations, as long as the stand is square and level, it should be able to handle over 112,000 lbs. I hope you don't find any issues with the tank.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Thank you.. spent a lot of time making sure it's squared up and level. That's a heck of a lot of weight you just said! HA! I hope that tank works out too... again.. for at least a Year. Just make it till next tax returns baby!

edit.. we did a lot of gluing too. So lot's and lot's of 2x4's up against the other ones are glued together as well for added strength with the screws too.


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## dsiple3

miDnIghtEr20C said:


> Just make it till next tax returns baby!


Ugg, don't remind me that it happens again. Tax season is hectic for us.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

But Texas!!! No state tax!!


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Put tank on stand, was going to fill up tank..., noticed that the tank did have a wobble. The stand is flat and looked great with the bubble both ways, but you could tell tank had a bit of wobble.

So what size again you guys recommend to put under tank on top of stand? Is it just plain ol Styrofoam? Special kind? I'm guessing previous tank owner had nothing underneath his tank.


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## dsiple3

miDnIghtEr20C said:


> But Texas!!! No state tax!!


I know, but I am the office manager for my wife's CPA firm. During tax season, we have very long days.

Back on topic, get the sheet insulation Styrofoam and cut it to the dimensions on the bottom of your tank. My 55 Gallon acrylic wobbles slightly until water is added. but 1/2" Styrofoam insulation should stabilize you.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

And when I say wobble, it's the tank.. and it's just a small little bit of a corner up.. corner down. Been reading all over that 3/4 inch pink foam will work the magic. I noticed the tank was like this on my hardwood floor (which is built on concrete) as well. Anyhoo... **** this tank. lol.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

dsiple3 said:


> miDnIghtEr20C said:
> 
> 
> 
> But Texas!!! No state tax!!
> 
> 
> 
> I know, but I am the office manager for my wife's CPA firm. During tax season, we have very long days.
> 
> Back on topic, get the sheet insulation Styrofoam and cut it to the dimensions on the bottom of your tank. My 55 Gallon acrylic wobbles slightly until water is added. but 1/2" Styrofoam insulation should stabilize you.
Click to expand...

It shall be done!

Oh.. and yes.. I hear ya now on hating tax time!


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## miDnIghtEr20C

couple of shots of tank on the stand... anyhoo.. still need to get the foam.


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## lilscoots

Looks very solid. For reference, I've got about half the lumber, a 1/3 of the hardware and a glass tank on top, but we don't get earthquakes here


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Ha ha.. ya. We felt a bit of the one in La Harbra a couple friday nights ago. Whole house was rocking and rolling. I have a buddy that lived right next to the epicinter and he said about a gallon of water jumped out of his 60. He said a wave went one way hit he lip, but then started coming back the other way and a little wave formed and out popped the water. Ha.. scary!

Good to hear I overbuilt. I told my friend that that's the way I wanted us to do it. Make that stand last for years and future tanks to come!


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## lilscoots

Something cheap and easy you can do to further strengthen (not that you need it) would be to nail a thin sheet of plywood to the backside, to prevent lateral flex if it does ever find itself in an earthquake. A sheet of luan/underlayment ply costs around $6 here, they'll even cut it for you, doesn't have to be exact. Did you say whether or not you'd be making the stand look nice?


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## Thalas_shaya

Any kind of foam. You can buy rolls of it as used in shipping to wrap fragile stuff, or actual styrofoam. Whatever you find easiest to work with and fit to your stand dimensions.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

lilscoots said:


> Something cheap and easy you can do to further strengthen (not that you need it) would be to nail a thin sheet of plywood to the backside, to prevent lateral flex if it does ever find itself in an earthquake. A sheet of luan/underlayment ply costs around $6 here, they'll even cut it for you, doesn't have to be exact. Did you say whether or not you'd be making the stand look nice?


Ya.. I'll be making it look a bit better in the future for sure. Want to add doors and such. And yes, we actually do have a 3/8 or 1/2 inch piece of plywood that is measured to fit the back. So I'll be doing that as well. Thanks for the advice. I assume I'll just need to cut out some areas for wires to come out of and such. I'm thinking of having the side panels put on by magnets, so I can get a sump in easy and take it out need be and all that jazz.

@post above.. thanks for the post. Gonna go to the depot tomorrow after work and see what I can find.


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## chiroken

hope you found the Styrofoam? just reading through your thread, love your enthusiasm. I also use the 1/2 stryofoam sheets, 2'x8' is $7 at our Home depot. Definitely go with the ply on the back to help stabilize side to side. You could also run a strip along the top and bottom and leave the middle section clear for wiring etc. If it's solid I'm wondering if condensation/moisture might be an issue in a completely enclosed space with your sump running?

Good job on the stand, more than enough but I too don't like to take chances. I've just designed a stand for my 24"x8' tank, 300g.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

chiroken said:


> hope you found the Styrofoam? just reading through your thread, love your enthusiasm. I also use the 1/2 stryofoam sheets, 2'x8' is $7 at our Home depot. Definitely go with the ply on the back to help stabilize side to side. You could also run a strip along the top and bottom and leave the middle section clear for wiring etc. If it's solid I'm wondering if condensation/moisture might be an issue in a completely enclosed space with your sump running?
> 
> Good job on the stand, more than enough but I too don't like to take chances. I've just designed a stand for my 24"x8' tank, 300g.


Thanks for bringing that up. Hmmmmm.. ya.. I was just assuming by waterproofing the thing that that would take care any moisture or anything like that. I'll have to think about that. Also like your idea about stripping the top and bottom and leaving the middle open. I think I'll do that. What do people make their doors with? Just the left over plywood and stuff? Or does home depot or a place like that have little doors at all types of sizes.


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## joescaper1

When I built my stand, in order to avoid moisture problems (warping, shrinking, etc.), I used a Pergo knock off (mainly for the price difference) for the facing. It is a plastic composite made to be walked upon, so it is tough. It can be purchased in a large variety of different styles(full planks, dark colors such as rosewood, light colors such as bamboo, so no staining is necessary, you get the point). I used RTV Silicone to install it(if you would nail it up, drill a tiny hole). Put cap trim around the top high enough to hide the styrofoam. Made the doors from the same material, glued to a backing board(I used high density 1/4" fiberboard, it is like the fiberboard used in bathrooms or pegboard).

By the way, your stand looks good.

Joe


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## jeffkro

dsiple3 said:


> Looking good so far. By my calculations, as long as the stand is square and level, it should be able to handle over 112,000 lbs. I hope you don't find any issues with the tank.


That should be enough.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

thanks for the reply Joe... gonna ask my buddy too what he thinks we could do. Do I need that back piece of plywood on there? Every stand I've ever bought from the fish stores never had a full back on there. Even my 140 that I have right now.

Anyhoo... filled up the tank just now. Grabbed that foam. Let's see how this tank holds overnight. Ya.. gonna leave it all overnight. I'm in Huntington Beach So Cal... we were 88 today.. overnight will be all the way down to a chilly 59 degrees. 

Foam under tank... let's fill this bitch up to the top before it hits the unplumbed overflow.










Holy **** I ran to cut of the water so fast before it went over the falls and leaked on my stand. ... Wow!










And here it is with the water so far as high as i will let it go without plumbing. Only has another couple inches.. so we let this sit over night and hope to wake up to a dry ground out there.


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## dsiple3

To provide stability for the stand, you can cut triangles and put them in the corners on the back to leave most of it open.

The stand I am building is open backed because I used 1/2" ply across the front and cut the doors from it. It does the same thing to prevent sheer movement as putting backing across the back. I may put triangles in the back just for fun, but that will wait until I have the backgrounds completed and soaked for a week.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

thanks for the info..


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Well, woke up this morning and came out to the backyard... things still look like this.










No leaks.. things look solid. The bowing isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.. heck, my 60 Clear View tank seems to have more of a bow. But ya.. cool.. gonna keep it with water in it all day until i get home... then I'll empty it.


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## TurboTurtle

I went with a solid back on my 180G and just cut pass through holes where I needed plumbing and electrical. With your construction of solid wood and plywood you won't be at risk from the enclosed humidity like you would be from a store bought particle board or MDF stand. Condensation isn't a problem - it will be more humid in your stand (which will slow evaporation from the sump some) but there won't be a large temperature swing between inside/outside of the stand to trigger the condensation. If you had a metal faced stand, with water temps of 80+ and much lower house temps you might condense, but not with regular temps and wood construction.

Another big benefit of enclosing is sound reduction when using a sump - being wrapped in that wood will keep extra pump & waterfall/bubbling noises to a minimum.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Thanks for the info turtle. If anything, maybe I can run a small computer fan in there just to keep it cooled or whatever. But ya.. again thanks. That is true about noise level. Gonna stain the stand today.. do some sanding first. Things are getting closer. I'm thinking the plumbing will be the easiest of it all.

What do people suggest for gallons of a sump for a 180? I have a 30 gallon tank I use on my saltwater as a sump for a 60 gallon.. .but I'm getting rid of the salt after all these years. I'm over it. The saltwater fish don't have the same kind of fun attitude as cichlids do.. unless you're going trigger fish and some of the cool meaner crazier salt.. but then I'd just put them in a 180 because you need huge tanks for fish like that. But then you do that and it's $$$$ time with tanks that big and salt.


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## lilscoots

I have about a 60 gallon sump/refugium on mine. You can go fairly small if you are going to keep up on replacing eavaporated water...or you can go as big as will fit for the extra water volume. What do you have lying around, alternately you can get a 55 for pretty cheap and build one from that.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Ya.. still not sure what I'm going to do.. petsmart has a pretty nice 40 gallon there for sale.. might use that.. or just use the 30 i have now.

Been doing some staining today. Went with a nice dark cherry. Never stained before.... probably shows.. but I'm loving it! ha ha! Anyhoo.. have to love an 80 degree day here by the beach in early April. My lady and oldest in the background painting and enjoying the day.


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## Mcdaphnia

You can find examples of crazing causing slow leaks, total failure, or just cosmetic. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... ?t=1728435 It could be repaired by replacing the affected panels. Flame polishing is no problem in most applications but with an aquarium, the acrylic is under more stress than normal. UV from sunlight or from reef lighting could cause crazing, or it could be the quality of the acrylic used. http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/F ... Edges.html

The stand needs a plywood top and the plywood needs support under it.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Thanks for the crazing info... and the stand has a nice top like that and support underneath. 

I'll add that I cannot feel any of the crazing with a finger tip, and the worst of the crazing looks lo be on the outside panel, not the inside. But we shall see. Once it's all set up I'll be looking and inspecting all the time. Tank held no problem over 24 hours, and the stand didn't even make a pop that I heard. A 24 hour test was good.. so hope that's a good sign. Tank hardly bowed as well.


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## theboothsociety

looks good so far.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Thank you. I just need to add doors and the sides and back.. then plumb.. plumbing shouldn't be too hard. I'm not going to get nuts with it. Just a pipe down to the sump and then a return up... I'll have all my stuff inside the sump, but ya.. will be a simple one.

I was thinking when I switch some of the fish to the new tank...should I use (i'm thinking i should) like at least half the water from the old tank they're coming from? Cycle that with new water for a few days or week.. get some new Plecos for the new tank and like 3 more loaches.

Anyhoo..


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## dsiple3

When I get a new filter for a different tank, I run it on an existing tank for a few weeks before moving or more to get it seeded.

If I am short on time, I run some of the old media in the new filter to give a good kick start on populating bacteria. I know I do it different than the recommended procedures, but I haven't had any stress issues aside from the stupid guppies that keep dieing in my daughters tank. But that's a different story all together.

I like how you think with keeping things simple. I always start out that way and the complicate things later just to give myself a challenge. At least that is what I choose to believe.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Excuse my ignorance.... but does that mean I need a 2~1/2 inch bulkhead for the big one? How bout the smaller?.

This is the return. This is a 1-3/4?


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## Mcdaphnia

I never worry about the bulkhead size. I just put a piece of paper over the glass and make a rubbing if it is not a straight forward measurement.

If they are unsure at the pet shop, I take a variety of sizes and bring back the ones that don't fit.

I did buy a used tank recently and replaced the old bulkhead that they had done weird things to with glue. When I took it off I saw the drill had drifted during the cut, going at an angle through the glass top and bottom. I can't imagine how they did this unless they held the bit at a 30 degree angle to the glass. The top and bottom caught in the threads of the new bulkhead as it went in but there was a quarter inch gap on the left and right sides. There is an extra wide gasket and it has not shown any problems since filling the tank last month.


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## joescaper1

http://www.glass-holes.com/Bulkheads_c21.htm


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Nice... thanks.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

So.. is the outside of the bulkhead, are they all the same size around to cover the hole? And then the inside is what the size is? Like 3/4 or 1 inch or whatever? Is that how it goes? I'm just gonna take my phone to the LFS and show them my setup and see what they have there for some returns and bulkheads. Maybe I can get a deal. Gonna turn in my saltwater fish too.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

also, what are peoples thoughts on using these as sumps? Will they last long? Crack easy?


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## Deeda

miDnIghtEr20C said:


> So.. is the outside of the bulkhead, are they all the same size around to cover the hole? And then the inside is what the size is? Like 3/4 or 1 inch or whatever? Is that how it goes? I'm just gonna take my phone to the LFS and show them my setup and see what they have there for some returns and bulkheads. Maybe I can get a deal. Gonna turn in my saltwater fish too.


For my one inch bulkhead fitting, the hole size required is 1-3/4". The plumbing piping size is not the same as the size of the hole required in the glass.

The measurements you provided mean that the 1-3/4" hole requires a 1" bulkhead fitting so this is the return/outflow piping. The 2-1/2" hole probably requires a 1-1/2" bulkhead fitting. Different bulkhead fittings can vary slightly by manufacturers so they may require the hole in the glass to be slightly larger or smaller.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Thanks a lot of that answer. It looks like I have three different sizes! Or close to it. That one whole on the actual overflow where the outlet will shoot back out the tank looks like it's a 1/4 inch bigger than the hole it has at the bottom of the overflow. Wonder why, or if it'll matter much. But ya.. thanks for that post. That helps me understand more.

I am very ignorant when it comes to building stuff like this, and tools and plumbing and wood work and all that ****. But I used to be able to dunk a basketball during my glory days on the court at 5' 11 inches! Not bad for a white dude! Now if only I could turn that into woodwork and crafting!


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## Mcdaphnia

miDnIghtEr20C said:


> also, what are peoples thoughts on using these as sumps? Will they last long? Crack easy?


They may crack easily, depending on who made them and where. But one person I know uses them as outdoor ponds and often gets several years out of them, only reinforcing the long sides by placing a row of them touching. if they crack he has clay soil so he digs a hole and sinks the cracked storage container, depending on the soil to slow the leak so he can refill it with a garden hose. Not something you can do in saltwater unless you live right on the beach.

Others reinforce them by nesting two together, taping or gluing the lid on and cutting an oval or circle in the lid for access, piling cement blocks along the sides, or by duct taping something rigid to the outside. Luck and careful inspection before you buy seem to have a lot to do with if these work long enough for your needs. If you have a basement or a closet nearby, I would rather use a Rubbermaid livestock tank and run PVC through a wall to the sump. If you put it on the floor beneath, still run the PVC into the wall and then down to the basement. Depending on floor and wall treatment, the wall is likely to be the easiest and less expensive choice to repair when the tank is moved. http://www.rubbermaidforless.com/rubber ... o-151.html


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Thanks for the info... gonna look into it. What are these basement things you talk of?!?!?! I live by the beach... they sound unnatural.


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## lilscoots

I used three of those in an emergency for housing a bunch of fish that came too early but I put a 2x4 frame around them, they worked well for that for a month or so before I tore it down and moved the fish into real tanks.


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## joescaper1

If you are going to put it under your stand, measure the open area front to back, then get a heavy duty Rubbermaid that fits snug against the front and back supports. Since they are trapozoidal, you shold be able to squeeze the top sides together enough to slide it through one of the removable ends. You are not going to fill it up to the top, so the outward pressure should not overwhelm the structural ribbing on the ends of the container.

Joe


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Ya, I'll probably just buy a 30 gallon glass... I just need to cut the holes now in the plywood on top so my plumbing fits. I don't think I'll hit the 2x4, but it's going to be close. Then finally I can get on with it. Have had the flu the last week and a half so I'm lagging a bit. And tomorrow is Easter, so won't get much done until this upcoming week.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Buddy told me he had a 50 gallon he wasn't using and could have if I want.. maybe i'll take it and make that the sump. Pulled the trigger on a Supreme Classic Mag Drive Pump 1800. I'm assuming that should be a good flow rate for the 180.


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## Mcdaphnia

miDnIghtEr20C said:


> Thanks for the info... gonna look into it. What are these basement things you talk of?!?!?! I live by the beach... they sound unnatural.


Basements are under appreciated and under utilized, but not much use near a beach or in deep sandy soil. A hurricane would fill them with water, not a safe place to be, although they are not bad in tornado country.

My Uncle Ray lived on the beach and dropped a sump pump into the ocean. He had a row of tanks in the house and they had wooden slats instead of back glass. Water leaked out and ran on the floor, reaching a trough in the floor that ran the length of the room and out of the house near a door. The water then ran in a small "creek" across his beach and back to the ocean. A couple times up to four times a day the plankton layer would move past the sump pump intake, causing everything in the tanks to go on a feeding frenzy. Some eggs or tiny fish would survive and start growing up in the tank. As long as they behaved themselves they could stay, but if they started eating their neighbors or behaving badly some other way, he would net them out, set them in the ditch on the floor and they would swim back to the ocean. He mostly bought his sump pumps at Sears. After about a month they would corrode so much they needed to be replaced. He would take them in and Sears would give him a free one under the warranty. If it conked out again during the warranty period, he usually decided to just buy a new one.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

miDnIghtEr20C said:


> Buddy told me he had a 50 gallon he wasn't using and could have if I want.. maybe i'll take it and make that the sump. Pulled the trigger on a Supreme Classic Mag Drive Pump 1800. I'm assuming that should be a good flow rate for the 180.


Also, I'll get a ball valve to control the flow of that for sure. Don't want it to be too crazy.


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## lilscoots

I run a mag18 unrestricted on my 180 with a 1" pvc spraybar with holes spaced 1" apart the length of the tank (don't remember the hole size as I made them bigger to decrease the velocity of the water coming out of the spray bar. it does a good job of moving the detrius around and to the overflows, the flow is not overly powerful, at least the fish don't seem to mind it, i.e. they don't noticeably swim "into a current".


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## miDnIghtEr20C

lilscoots said:


> I run a mag18 unrestricted on my 180 with a 1" pvc spraybar with holes spaced 1" apart the length of the tank (don't remember the hole size as I made them bigger to decrease the velocity of the water coming out of the spray bar. it does a good job of moving the detrius around and to the overflows, the flow is not overly powerful, at least the fish don't seem to mind it, i.e. they don't noticeably swim "into a current".


Awesome. Thanks for that. Can't wait to get this all finished up. I'm guessing in the next couple of weeks fo sho.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

I have a 140 going now that I'm keeping my smaller fish in and all the fish are in there now.. how many gallons of my tank water that I have going should I use in the new tank when i get it cycling? Any of it? Should I pull half of it out when I first start to fill the new tank?

What are your guys thoughts on that?


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## Boe82

For cycling purposes, water from an established tank really doesn't do anything, since the bacteria isn't in the water, but I do know, when my step dad had his fish room going and he got a new tank, he would use some substrate from an establish tank and fill half of the new tank with water from another tank as well, he never told me why tho, I just know it worked well for him.


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## lilscoots

you can transfer some substrate or better some filter material from the established tank or if you can't do that squeeze out a filter sponge/pad from the established tank into the new tank. Doing this will get you the bacteria you need into the new tank at which point it can start to colonize as long as you feed it.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Thanks for the info guys. I'll probably just use a little bit of the water.... just because, and I'll also clean out my FX6 that day as well, and squeeze the sponges and stuff into the new tank.

My buddy hasn't been by yet with his tool to cut the holes out I need in the plywood yet, or this would all be going down real soon. My other friend has a 50 gallon he wants to give me for his sump... it's about 15.5 wide he said with black plastic railing.... POOPOO!!! My sides with the 2x4's on my stand are exactly at 15. Will I be able to file a tad on one side of the 2x4 without wrecking the support on my stand so I can fit that tank in?!?!?!?!?! Oh no! First I'm going to try to 3 point turn it in, in my middle door.. that measures at 20 inches. maybe I can fit it in there that way first. It's a standard 50 size. He said it's been in teh garage for a long time.. his old salt water tank. Wants to give me his rocks too with it... hot damnnnn. Hope I can fit the tank at least in there!


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## lilscoots

You have more than enough vertical strength, you can easily file away some of a 2x4 to get it to fit.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Nice. Ya.. if it needs to be, i'll just file a tiny on one side so it can scoot on in. Cool.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Got the tank up a bit ago....sorry for no updates.. been plenty busy. But ya... so far so good. Here's a quick video.. don't mind the water yet.. have some new driftwood leaking some tannin but that'll clear up soon with water changes weekly. I still need to add doors and some sides to my stand and clean the look up a bit... but I just wanted to get my fish in there. So far the fish are doing great. I lost 2 pictus cats and my 2 beloved big asssss clown loaches to a horrid strain of ich.. the ich is gone, all fish are great.. but dang.. lost the other 4. Bummed me.. but anyhoo.. here's some footage so far.


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## dsiple3

Now I am just a little, no a lot jealous. My wife would never let me have 3 tanks in the same room.

Anyway, nice setup, I'm glad it is working out for you. I'm sad to see some of your fish go to the big pond in the sky.

By the way, I used Sponge Bob doing dishes last night, I doubt he'll back in your tank any time soon.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

Ha ha! I'm lucky I don't have Squidword and Patricks house in there yet. My 3 year old wants them all in there! The small tank is a saltwater tank that I'm trying to sell on Craigslist... I'm just over it. The other is the 140 that the fish were in before and I moved it in that back room there so I could just nerd the **** out. Luckily there's another family room tank free and plenty of room for my two boys, 3 and 1 year old to let loose. I have the smaller fish still in my 140. Gonna make a couple videos sometime later with the stock of both my tanks.

back to that saltwater.. only thing bums me about getting rid of it, is I've had a fish since 2006 in there and another since 2008. But like I said.. just over the whole saltwater for now. Have had it for years and it's not really fun unless you either have a great reef setup going, or cool big ol trigger fish and lions and stuff like that in there.


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## miDnIghtEr20C

The 180 hasn't bust yet! Still going strong and so are a bunch of my original fish I put in there. Anyhoo.


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