# Bolivian Ram with gill flukes?



## sophie (Sep 15, 2008)

Hi,

I am completely clueless as to what to do next. First a few info:

1. Water parameters. (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, PH, temp', Hardness etc)
Ph: 7.6; ammonia: 0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 10

2. Symptoms.
about 2 weeks ago, my Bolivian Ram started twitching his head, the best way to compare it to is like he was having somekind of seizure. He shakes is head then scrapes his body against the glass (not on rocks or anywhere else). After a few research on the site, I suspected Gill flukes but there's no sign of red around the gills, no trouble breathing (doesnt go to the surface for some air). Now has white stringy feces (since this morning). Other than that, eating normally, I've checked the body and no signs of ick, anchor worms, etc. Went to my LFS where I was told that it might be velvet (which is hard to see especially on a white fish).

3. Tank maintenance
25%, every other week (lately every 4 weeks, except since treating with parasite clear - see below for details)

4. Treatments done
Started treating the tank with Jungle Labs Parasite Clear (3 treatments every 48 hours with 25% water change prior to treatment, as per indications). Did the 3rd one this AM. The first treatment seemed to work well. I observed the little guy and the "twitching" was going on once every minute prior to medication. The day after, it was twitching its head once every 6 minutes, so I thought things were improving. Now today, after 3 treatments, the twitching is back to once every minute + the white stringy feces, which worries me.

5. What tank mates are in the tank.
11 rummynoses, 9 penguin tetras (I know this is a cichlid forum but I do have a BR in there + a 220 gal with 12 fronts 

6. Tank size.
30 gal. tank's been set up for 5 years now

Do you have any idea what disease I'm dealing with here? Also, should I go with a second round (+3 treatments) of Jungle Parasite clear or switch to another medicine? Note that here in Canada, we do not have access to pure Metro. I do have the following medications on hand though: JL Internal Parasite Guard (sodium chl., metro, acri), Mycopur (acriflavine) for velvet, PraziPro, Paraguard and KanaPlex (kanamycin).

Your help would be greatly appreciated, as I am completely clueless as to which route to go next.

Sophie


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Sophie, the PraziPro should work just fine if it's gill flukes. Just be persistent, it can be quite hard to eradicate them completely. Squeeze in as many water changes as you can!


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## sophie (Sep 15, 2008)

Thanks for the reply.

So you would switch to PraziPro instead of a 2nd round of Parasite Clear? If so, should I throw in carbon in my filter to remove the Parasite Clear?

Note that this morning, feces are back to normal.

thanks again for your help. I'm leaving on vacation tomorrow AM and my son will continue the treatments, I just want to give him specific instructions.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You might run some carbon for a few hours today, just to make sure the old meds are cleared out. I really don't think it would hurt to skip it, but you just never know.


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## sophie (Sep 15, 2008)

Me again. Back from my 2 weeks vacation. While I was out, the tank was treated with PraziPro (1 treatment per week). The symptoms (head shaking) are still there although they have reduced a bit. Been watching the tank for the last hour and he did it only twice. Note that the symptoms are worst when the lights are on (if this means anything). I went to another LFS and finally got my hand on Metronizadole (which was behind the counter). The guy there told me that it was probably a neurological problem due to a parasite that has now affected the brain + he wasn't very optimistic.

Treated the tank 2 days ago with Metronidazole, as per instructions on the package (100 mg/10 gal). Since the ram is still eating very well, I decided yesterday to feed him soaked bloodworms in the metro.

I did read the info on Metro here on this site but I still have a few questions:
1- should I increase the dosage of Metro (I did notice that some of you do for bloat)?
2- should I treat water AND food, or only food?
3- if going the "food" route, how many feedings per day?
4- water changes with treatment: I notice in one article in the library do do a w/c just before the initial treatment and not between treatments. I am a bit confused (not to mention a bit discouraged...).
5- Could age have anything to do with this illness? The little guy is 4 y-o.

Other than the "shaking" symptoms, the Ram is his normal self and eats very well although I notice that the other occupants seem a bit stressed, not to mention that one has bloat.

Thanks, again for your help.

Sophie


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Gill flukes can be very hard to get rid of.

I think if it were me, I would have considered continuing the PraziPro for a couple more weeks accompanied with some frequent water changes. (Were there any done in your absence?)

I won't disagree with your LFS guy...I do think it's possible for parasites to affect them in this manner via the brain. I don't think it's something we see everyday, but I do believe it happens.

Anytime a fish is eating and you can get them to ingest the meds, I believe that works far better than treating the water column, so if you want to continue the metro, I'd soak the food in it.

Why do you think the one has bloat?


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## sophie (Sep 15, 2008)

thanks for the reply. Here's a video I just took of the head twitching. You can see what he does, more at the end of the video.

http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a5/bulldog3/?action=view&current=MVI_0107.flv

What makes me rethink that it's gill flukes is the fact that he has absolutely no problem breathing and never goes to the top of the tank to get air. That is one of the reasons I have stopped the PraziPro and switched to the Metronidazole. Also Metro was suggested by the LFS who thought we needed something stronger. Maybe this was an error.



> Were there any done in your absence?)


40% w/c was done once in 2 weeks just before the 2nd treatment of PraziPro.

So, should I continue with the Metro or, as you suggest, go back to PraziPro for a couple of weeks? Sorry if this thread is getting long.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Since you've already started the metro, I'd just continue using that. As I said before, if it's gill flukes, it can seem to take forever to get rid of them.


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