# I am back with a clean slate.... groan



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

It has truely been a long time since I have logged onto C-F. Mostly because my tanks (Africans)have been doing great, but Friday I had my titainium heater in my 180g stick "on" and nuked ALL my ~40 Mbuna.  My Haps and Tanganikians are still fine
With a now empty 180 I am considering making a switch over to New World Cichlids. Mostly because of the B-E-A_utiful adult Jack Dempsey they have at the LFS.
I have been looking over the profiles here and checking the stock of juvies on hand at the same LFS. I will be studying the Cookie-cutter tank set ups here next as well.
So far I am leaning towards a mixture of two of each of the following... Common names only for now, I _STILL_ need to learn latin 

Jack Dempsey - Very nice hearty staple of the Hobby
Jaguar - Thanks to AquaMojo's pics I remember
Firemouth - For the sheer beauty when flashing
Red Jewel - suggested by the LFS
Dovi - Love 'em but on the fence due to their size when fully groan
Salvini
Green Texan
Convict - I was warned to only get one instead of a pair due to their mating aggression.

These will all be purchased as Juvies and grown together, anybody spot an obvious problem? (noob question I know). I would like to get the tank restocked soon so as not to loose my Bacteria colony in the sump. Heaters should be here Friday. One 250W in the tank and a 100w in the sump.
Any way, just wanted to pop in and say "Hi" as I will be lurking in the recent posts and the profiles pages for as much info as I can absorb.


----------



## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

Hoosier Tank said:


> Jack Dempsey - Very nice hearty staple of the Hobby
> Jaguar - Thanks to AquaMojo's pics I remember
> Firemouth - For the sheer beauty when flashing
> Red Jewel - suggested by the LFS
> ...


I would go with:
Jack Dempsey
Firemouth 
Salvini - I really like them
Convict 
Green Texas ????

I'm sure there are "other" that can be added but I took only what you had on your list.

Avoid:
Jaguar
Dovi
Jewel - size for size one of the most aggressive cichlids, even by themselves.


----------



## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

I agree with what *Steffano2* said. I think the stock list he gave would work great. I also agree with the list to avoid. I general jags and dovii get very large and aggressive and would see the entire tank as their territory once they get larger.

About the Jewel, I hate that some many LFS and websites will list them with South Americans. They are not South Americans, they are from West Africa. So have success with them with South Americans but those that are more experienced with the hobby normally don't like to mix them.

Another thing to think about is to going with a pair of JD's and you could still keep a few of the other cichlids in a tank like a 180. Just something to think about.

-Cage


----------



## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Steffano2 said:


> Hoosier Tank said:
> 
> 
> > Jack Dempsey - Very nice hearty staple of the Hobby
> ...


Jewels are African riverine cichlids.


----------



## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

cage623 said:


> About the Jewel, I hate that some many LFS and websites will list them with South Americans. They are not South Americans, they are from West Africa. So have success with them with South Americans but those that are more experienced with the hobby normally don't like to mix them.
> -Cage


I agree Cage: I will also add that another one of the biggest on going problems w/ LFS is that 9x's out of 10 they will house Jewels with New World cichlids all waiting for their new homes. So the new buyer thinks it's a good mix. Oddly enough every-time you look into those tanks all the N.W. have their fins shredded sometime almost to their caudal peduncle depending on how long the jewels have been housed with them, I've even seen were the jewels have eaten the eyes out too. The common Jewel seen in the hobby is Hemichromis guttatus, not H. bimaculatus as often labeled at your LFS.


----------



## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

cage623 said:


> About the Jewel, I hate that some many LFS and websites will list them with South Americans. They are not South Americans, they are from West Africa. So have success with them with South Americans but those that are more experienced with the hobby normally don't like to mix them.
> -Cage


I agree Cage: I will also add that another one of the biggest on going problems w/ LFS is that 9x's out of 10 they will house Jewels with New World cichlids all waiting for their new homes. So the new buyer thinks it's a good mix. Oddly enough every-time you look into those tanks all the N.W. have their fins shredded sometime almost to their caudal peduncle depending on how long the jewels have been housed with them, I've even seen were the jewels have eaten the eyes out too. The common Jewel seen in the hobby is Hemichromis guttatus, not H. bimaculatus as often labeled at your LFS.


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Thanks for the replies! That helps solidify my thoughts and your suggestions are much appreciated. Bummer about the Jaguars as they have always caught my eye, but I do understand... and the Dovi as well. Maybe later on in another 6' tank as a "Wet Pet" singular 



> Jewels are African riverine cichlids.


That explains my failure to find them in the new world listings... and why they are not in with Mbuna, Haps or Tangs.

I am rather surprised on the Convict as I thought it would be the one to be taboo after reading of their agression. Is that because I was going with a single one and not a pair?

And it's fine that the Jewels' out, funny thing is I was not thinking of those until their suggestion. They are not in stock at the LFS so it is not like he was pushing them to move his inventory... And this IS a _somewhat_ knowledgable fish store. Even though I could never convince them M. johanii were NOT the same as M. maingano's :roll:

*Jack Dempsey* - (Rocio octofasciatum) x2
*Firemouth* - (Thorichthys meeki) x2
*Salvini *- (Nanopsis salvini) x2
*Convict* - (Amatitlania nigrofasciatus) x1
*Texas* - (Herichthys genus) x2 -regaurdless the species, either cyanoguttatus or carpintis (green)

OK so as long as we have a working list so far... how about Severums? (Heros efasciatus)

Oh and one more thing that got me into Africans... my water is over 8.0 ph, closer to 8.6. And no I am not interested in anything other than what comes out of my tap. Want to keep my water change maintenance as easy as possible so I stay with it, especially when dealing with combined 200g of my tank / sump. So even a 25% change equals 50 gallons.
Maybe I should get a colony of Frontosa. :roll:


----------



## clgkag (Mar 22, 2008)

New World cichlids will do fine in your water. Your list mostly comes from harder water anyhow and unless you are ordering wilds, they were probably raised in hard water. Even though the ones you have picked are fairly mild, for cichlids, you will still get some aggression if any pars form. Shouldn't be a problem, just make sure you have lots of cover and line-of-sight breaks.


----------



## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

So are you thinking about doing a pair of Jd's, sals, Firemouth, and Texas? Cause I only suggested a pair of jd's because I thought you were really interested in them. I would not to multiple pairs in a tanks this size. And I would only do a pair of either jd's or Firemouths. I would not do a pair of any of the others for the same reason you don't want to do a pair of cons. The others are very aggressive during spawning and could make your tank a living **** on the other tankmates.

If you don't want to do a pair you could go with a Servum as well. And remember we are only giving advice based on the typical behavior and aggression of these fish. But with new world cichlids it really depends on the individual fish you are keeping.

-Cage


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Good advice has been given thus far, especially regarding the Jag and Dovi.

As mentioned above, Centrals will do just fine in your water. I keep my CA's in 8.0+ PH as well...

With your above mentioned stock list, I'm guessing your wanting pairs as your not going to want two unpaired cichlids of the same species, as that will only add to the aggression down the road.

I'd say your fully stocked (if not overstocked) with that list as well. Although a 180gal is a large aquarium, I'd consider yourself lucky if everything works out long term. If there are any trouble makers out of that list, it will most likely be the Salvini's and/or the Herichthys. Personally, I'd only attempt 3 pairs in that size aquarium due to the species your trying to keep. I would ditch the Herichthys...

When setting up the tank, be sure to create many "line of sight breaks" using large rocks/boulders, pieces of driftwood, and plants. This will help keep aggression down as each pair will be able to claim a small portion of the tank as their own, while not having to stare at all the other fish all the time.

To acquire pairs of each species, your most likely going to need to buy 6x of each and then let them pair off on their own. Once a pair forms, you can then remove the remaining 4 and trade them in. This allows a natural pair to form resulting in (most cases) a stronger bond. Be sure your LFS is OK with this, as you do not want to be suddenly stuck with a boat load of fish.

Actually... You should really only have to do this with the Meeki and Herichthys (if you decide to keep them) as the JD's and Salvini are pretty easy to sex from a young age from my experience. Keep in mind however, this method is not always fool proof as sometimes the male and female YOU choose to pair up will simply not approve of each other.

Good luck and keep us updated!


----------



## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

I agree with the suggestion to avoid the Dovii and Jag, unless you want just a wet pet. Nics are another good one to consider.

As far as the jewel cichlids being as aggressive as the others have suggested...exactly which Hemichromis species are you talking about? I've kept and bred most of the common ones, and most haven't been as aggressive as most of the convicts that I've owned. And I've mixed them with CA's without any problems. One exception would be the one sold as the "'5 spot jewel" Hemichromis Elongatus. It IS more aggressive than most CA's. They are very capable of killing fish much larger than themselves, and grow a bit larger than the more common "jewel" species (there are actually several species sold as jewel cichlid).


----------



## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

cage623 said:


> I would only do a pair of either jd's or Firemouths. I would not do a pair of any of the others for the same reason you don't want to do a pair of cons. The others are very aggressive during spawning and could make your tank a living #%$& on the other tankmates.
> 
> If you don't want to do a pair you could go with a Servum as well. And remember we are only giving advice based on the typical behavior and aggression of these fish. But with new world cichlids it really depends on the individual fish you are keeping.
> 
> -Cage


 I 2nd * Cage's* recommendations, go for singles except for a pair of Firmouths or JD.


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Awesome info, Thanks...
The "x2" was the thought mostly because these are Juvies and the tank will look really empty for a while. Thought I would keep the nicer specimen of each as they grow. Yes the LFS will take fish back from me later on... I have been taking my Africans as trade-ins in exchange for supplies there for some time. Buggers breed like rabbits!
I have plently of large rock and some fake plants that worked well for my Mbuna, The lace rock is back in the tank in a pile to keep it wet and the knarley bolders are out to easy the clean-up of the devistation. I plan on re-arranging things when my new heaters come in Friday and totally understand the "Line-of-sight" comments.


----------



## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

oldcatfish said:


> common ones, and most haven't been as aggressive as most of the convicts that I've owned. And I've mixed them with CA's without any problems.


I agree with this 100%. In a 180 gal. a common jewel is very unlikely to be any problem. IME, somewhat less capable and less aggressive then a convict. I think that people that have problems with a jewel it is at a very small size straight from the pet shop in small tanks. Give it a bit of time and growth and seldom are they the dominant fish. I had to remove my 5" male from my 180 gal. because he could not defend himself from my male con and male black belt.

Jewels, like cons, sals and aggressive mbuna, are all fish that can be quite capable against larger fish. They all can use their smaller size as an advantage against larger oponents, becuase of better agility and manouverability. But I often have found that jewels seem to lose some ability when they put size on.

I agree, as well that a dovii is very difficult to keep with tankmates and the suggested stock list is probably not that great with a jag.


----------



## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Forget Jewels, they're African for starters and are pretty aggressive, alone or breeding they will most likely cause problems. Jaguar and Dovi are simply too big and are too aggressive in that size tank. Firemouths are awesome, not too aggressive not too big, Convicts aren't as bad as people say, you can get very aggressive ones and some not so aggressive. But stick with 1 to be safe. Salvini can be quite aggressive when breeding so note that.

Dempseys and Green Texas are quite aggressive as well but not as much as Dovi and Jaguars. I would not get a pair however, too big and aggressive to double them. Stick to one each or perhaps a single pair of either.

If i were you i would do this given your aquired tastes:

1x Convict
1x JD
2x FM
1x Salvini (maybe 2 if you're lucky)
1x Texas (although you're better off getting another larger fish that's less aggressive perhaps a Blue Acara, a Sevrum or Geophagus juruparis)


----------



## ranchialex (Dec 4, 2011)

Hate to hijack, but I'm thinking of a very similar setup, but I'd like to incorporate Oscars into my 180 (6x2x2). Crazy talk? I plan to have an option to rehome into a pond if some stock outgrow/outstay their welcome.


----------



## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

ranchialex said:


> Hate to hijack, but I'm thinking of a very similar setup, but I'd like to incorporate Oscars into my 180 (6x2x2). Crazy talk? I plan to have an option to rehome into a pond if some stock outgrow/outstay their welcome.


Oscars can work in a 180, but i would probably only get 1, 2 max, but there wouldn't be much else you could add.


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I still feel 3 pairs is very doable in a 180gal. The key is to add them all at a young age and at the same time. I would definitely at least give it a shot... If things don't work out, ok you tried. You can always remove/rehome the trouble makers down the road.

I have a relatively similar setup in my 135gal. I have chosen somewhat smaller and less aggressive fish though as well.

Final stocking in my tank will consist of...

2x (Pair) of Hypsophrys Nicaraguensis
2x (Pair) of Thorichthys Meeki
2x (Pair) of Archocentrus Multispinosa
And a lone male Rocio Octofasciata


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

I agree, I believe it is best to buy several small and let them grow out together and then weed out the undesirables as they arise. All of the ones I have selected are available as Juvies. Also know all to well these are generalized statements for the most part on aggression, as they do have their own personality. :fish:


----------



## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Hoosier Tank said:


> Also know all to well these are generalized statements for the most part on aggression, as they do have their own personality. :fish:


Yes, they are all particular individuals, and as well, the conditions and circumstances are always very different in every tank, not to mention that age and sex are often major diferences as well. Starting out with young fish and removing trouble makers or fish that get overly picked on, is a good stategy, IMO.

If I had kept jewels for 6 months or 1 year, then maybe I really shouldn't say too much about them. But I have kept them with CA cichlids, on a number of occasions, altogether now for well over 15 years. Bred them many, many times, always in the community tank. Yes it could be a trouble maker or end up overly picked on with your proposed stock.....but IMO, probably not. IMO most of the fish on your list have a better chance of becoming overly aggressive/troublemaker then a jewel. Currently I have 2 pairs of jewels: A 4 yr. old male (born feb. 2008) paired with a young female (purchased march, 2011) in a 75 gal. with 5 blue gourami (~3"), one 5 month old con (2"), and small pleco (~4"). The other pair (purchased march, 2011) live in a 180 gal. with female blackbelt (5 yrs. old+, 10 5/8", 534 g), young male black belt (2 yrs. old, 8 1/2", 234g), male salvini (2 yr. old+, 6 3/4", 120g), female salvini (2 yr. +, 5", 42g), 4 bumblebee mbuna, 1 female auratus, 1 CAE, 1 common pleco. This jewel pair has not bred yet ....they don't really own territory. For about a week they stood up to the male sal but have not since in many months. Male is 4 1/2", 30 g and female is 3 5/8", 15 g so they are small. Female salvini kicks the jewels out of their cave area between sal spawns, when male sal chases female sal away.

IMO, a male dovii, LONG TERM, is unlikely to co-exist with other CA in a 180 gal. Even in very large tanks, sometimes they do not live well with tankmates, especially other CA cichlids. As well, a large dovii or jag could actually swallow a full grown jewel.


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

That mix just shows that there are many variables other than "typical" aggression.
I would have never dreamed of mixxing CA's winth my Mbuna, let alone a crabro or auratus. Always heard the Mbuna would bully them to death and the Feeding frenzy of a Mbuna would leave the CA's to starvation.
Just goes to prove the point...


----------



## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

Quote "If I had kept jewels for 6 months or 1 year, then maybe I really shouldn't say too much about them. But I have kept them with CA cichlids, on a number of occasions, altogether now for well over 15 years. Bred them many, many times, always in the community tank. Yes it could be a trouble maker or end up overly picked on with your proposed stock.....but IMO, probably not. IMO most of the fish on your list have a better chance of becoming overly aggressive/troublemaker then a jewel."

I agree with bernie 100% I've kept and bred jewels for years, often with CA's. And even though they may be African, they are substrate spawners, so they generally mix well with CA's. But even many of the mouthbrooding Africans make good tankmates for CA cichlids--if the aquarium is large enough, and you set the tank up right.


----------



## Valous (Jan 30, 2011)

Not sure if you stocked your tank, or decided on what your are going to stock. But if you like jaguar cichlids might take a look at cuban cichlid. Similar in looks but not as big and so far not as aggressive as people describe jaguars. Now with that said mine is only about 2" so has not reached maturity.

Now from experience that I have a 210 gal, same foot print as a 180, and it currently houses a 7" and 5 " female jds, 5" oscar, 1 3" jd/convict, 2 pictus, 1 common and 1 L90 pleco, and one lonely giant danio. The JDs and hybrid ended up killing my firemouth that was just under 5". They go after the oscar but never goes further then a short chase. So it goes to show that anything can happen. But since your LFS will take fish back from you for credit I would say give what you like a try. Besides you are the one that has to look at the tank everyday. We just look at pictures you post.


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Well, tank temp has been a steady 79 degrees for three days with one 250W of the two planned heaters. When I went Friday to pick up my replacements they were not in yet, so they gave me a loaner from one of their tanks. Mine should be here Wednesday.
Today I brought home my new Babies!!!
2 *Firemounths* at 2"
2 *Salvini* at closer to 3"
2 *Texas* at 2"
2 *Green Severum*, cute little 1" buggers
I _payed_ for 2 Jack Dempsey... one jumped out of the net on the way to the bag and hit the floor, I said "Not that one" and he said "Even for free?" so I snatched it up and plopped him in the bag to come home with 3. Two of them are just over 3", including the "Jumper" and the other is a little larger, closer to 4".
After getting them all slowly aclimated to my water, I put them in the tank.
Eveybody swam to cover except the two Severums, they have been out checking out the new digs since they were put in. Next out were the Texas, looking proud. Then the Firemouths about 10 minutes later. Soon after that the Salvini... and lastly the J.D.'s they are actually come out for a short bit and go back to hide. So for now, eveyone has been out exploring and seems to be doing fine. Probably post some pics tomorrow night after work if all is well.


----------



## Valous (Jan 30, 2011)

nice deal on the JDs and they are a good size to get. And glad that the fish are out swimming around. I know the jds I had always hid for a good while. but now that they are in a big tank the biggest one is out all the time. Now lets see some pics.


----------



## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

Hoosier Tank said:


> Well, tank temp has been a steady 79 degrees for three days with one 250W of the two planned heaters. When I went Friday to pick up my replacements they were not in yet, so they gave me a loaner from one of their tanks. Mine should be here Wednesday.
> Today I brought home my new Babies!!!
> 2 *Firemounths* at 2"
> 2 *Salvini* at closer to 3"
> ...


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Steffano2 said:


> *which one did you end up buying?*


The standard Texas (Herichthys cyanoguttatus)
You know what I forgot? 
I didn't even realize until the wifey asked...
I need a new B.N. Plec.


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Did you try to pick out male/female pairs or are you going to just remove one of each once they grow out a bit?


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

I tried, but since I am not very good at venting, I randomly picked two of each. If a bonding pair comes out of it that would be awesome, but the thought was to return one of each if it becomes necessary. Sorry, no pics last night, everyone is still a little skiddish and darts for cover when I come to the tank. Probably will take a few feedings so they will get conditioned to come out when they see me.


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

A few of your choices should be able to be pretty reliably sexed by looks alone. Good luck with your new fish and post pics asap!


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Maybe the pics will help out in the ID... if I can get some nice ones posted up soon.
I can tell you one of the Firemouths has more red on its belly that travels to the lower jaw. 
On the Salvini, one the black pattern is bolder above the horizontal line closer to the dorsal and the other has some red starting to show higher up the belly about mid way.
One Jack Dempsey has been darker than the other two since day one, even in the tank at the LFS. But I read that is more along the lines of mood or tempermant than gender.
The Texas are identical, as are the tiny Severums.


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Alrighty, out of the 53 pics I took last night I believe I got a decent shot of each. I was playing with the camera settings to see what worked best so please excuse the changes in color, The pics where the substrate looks more gray than orange is more the true color of my tank... so here goes.

My two Firemouths





My Jack Dempsey's







My little Severums...





Lastly here's several shots of my 2 Salvini.


----------



## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Both of your salvini are females. The spot on the dorsal fin indicates female and is quite a reliable way to sex salvinis. If you post pics of your texas, and they are of suffecient age and developement, they can be sexed by this trait as well.

JD can be reliably sexed by the amount of coloration on the gill plate. Females having large blue blotches on the lower gill plate; males having only a few small blue spots on the lower gill plate, or often none at all. It apears that you have a male and female though to really be certain with this method, I think the JD have to be a little older and more developed.

Firemouth are not easily sexed at a young age; no way for me to even guess as a juvie, especially from a picture. Sometimes a male or 2 will stand out from a larger group of juvies to those of us very familiar with CA cichlids....but other then that i wouldn't have a clue. At a much larger and older size, sex does become obvious by body shape and size.

Severums are far too young to be sexed. Males start to develope a 'worming' pattern on the face or gill plate as a sub-adult; females lack these markings entirely.


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

From those pics you can only really sex the Sals and JDs. I agree with bernie, both Sals are definitely female. The first two pics of the JD's are female as well, with the third pic possibly being a male. I'd wait a few weeks to be sure though...

As far as sexing Meeki, it can tricky. I have 3 that are about the same size as yours and 2 are already trying to pair off. USUALLY, the males will have longer trailers on their dorsal and anal fins, along with a longer, steeper snout/forehead.


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Great info so far. As I said, I took 53 photos total so I can't be 100% sure that the ones that turned out aren't the same fish. But your info will help me make the call as they grow
Oops, I forgot to add the pics of my Texas!



and another shot of the same one...



This should be the second.


----------



## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

CjCichlid said:


> The first two pics of the JD's are female as well, with the third pic possibly being a male. I'd wait a few weeks to be sure though...


I was thinking the exact opposite for the JD. Obviously they are too young to be certain based on the gill plate, but if you look at the 2nd JD it is devoid of blue on the very bottom part of it's gill plate. It's generally around this size that males begin to loose coloration on the bottom half of the gill plate. But actually I was sexing them based on the size and shape of the head......a fairly reliable way that I use to sex them long before I came to realize, from internet fourums, that they can usually be easily sexed based on gill plate once they are passed the very early juvie state.

Neither of your texas exhibit a dorsal spot, indicating they are male, but I doubt they are old enough to jump to this conclusion. Give it a few more months, then you will know for sure.


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

The first and second pics of the JDs look to have a very good amount of blue spangling on both the gill plate and under the eye. I've never seen males simply loose blue coloration in that area as they mature, they've always been like that from the get go. I have a male now that had NO blue spangling whatsoever from the day I got him (around 2"). Spots are one thing, but when they look like smudges, that's usually a dead give away that it's a female. Obviously, like you said, they're to young to be 100%...

For reference, here's a pic of my male at around the same size. You can see he is completely void of any blue spangling under the eye or on the gill plate...










Agreed that the Texas's "look" male...


----------



## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

CjCichlid said:


> but when they look like smudges, that's usually a dead give away that it's a female.


 That could very well be.
I must admit at this size and age, I find sexing most JD rather difficult. 
No doubt, Hoosier Tank, in very short time, the sex of your JD will become obvious, and close to certain, based on the coloration of the lower gill plate.


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Did you take any full tank shots while you had the camera out Hoosier?

Also, what LFS do you usually go to? I am located just south of Indianapolis in Greenwood and the only decent place I've found is The Reef. It's located in Indy, off of N Keystone Ave.


----------



## Steffano2 (Jan 11, 2007)

Love your new CA tank and thanks for sharing your new inhabitants! They look good!


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

No problem *steffano2*, I love to show off! 
Gazing at my tank last night I noticed one of my Salvini does not have a spot on it's dorsal fin, so those pics must all be of the same one. Sounds like I have a male and a female, let's see if they pair up.
I am lucky to have a pet store in Kendallville that speaks Cichlids, so I support my LFS Exotic Aquatics and Pets. http://www.exoticaquaticsandpets.com/
two great guys and one idiot. They do have a new guy who just started and seems pretty knowledgable. He sets up and maintains tanks at other businesses around the area.
Thanks for your help all, I will be watching the J.D.'s
Since you asked, here is a full tank shot from this morning.


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Huh... Guess I need to update my sig already !


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Oh ok, your about 3 hours North of me. You can definitely tell your an African keeper by the look of that tank! Where's all the driftwood?!


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

LOL! yeah, I even refrained from putting ALL my rocks back in.
I am on the look out for a big piece of driftwood, but will need to soak it for a while before putting it in to get all the tannins out. So even once I DO find the perfect one, it will be a while before you see it.
One of these days we need to talk bikes.


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Hah, I love me some driftwood! Instead of paying an arm and a leg, just go look for some yourself. I have had good luck just walking banks of rivers and larger creeks. Winter is actually a great time to collect as it tends be nice and dry from the cold weather and wind.

Bikes? Yet another hobby that I spend way to much money on... :roll: I have a GSXR 750 and a DRZ400SM (supermoto). I do quite a bit of track riding on both, but am looking to race supermoto this year if time and money alllows. How about yourself?


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

I rebuild / customize old basket case heaps for my other Hobby, on my 4th one now.
Currently own a '81 GoldWing I stripped down to a Bobber, recently sold a "73 CB350Four that I had Cafe'ed out. and I just picked up a '72 CB450 for $20.
I recently finished the older sister to your Gixxer... an '80 Zook GS750L that I paid $50 bucks for. This summer I am going to try my hand at the straight 1/4 mile stuff. :wink:

Before



And the After one year later.


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Wow, impressive before and after pics! Although I enjoy working on my bikes, I'm not sure I could do it on that large of a scale.

And since your giving me an excuse to show off... :roll:

Supermoto action:









Sportybike action:








^I'm a cheapskate and didn't want to buy the pic from the guy that was photographing that day, hence why it says proof on it.


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Nothin like hyjacking my own thread... Yeah I go down to a bare frame and redo each part going back together Those are some nice action shots! Have you taken any of the high performance riding class's?
As long as we are talking bikes. Here is my '81 GoldWing that has been my daily rider that I originally traded an old lawn mower for...

Before:



After:


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Another incredible transformation! Do you sell most of them afterwards? I think I would have a hard time parting with something I put so much time into...

No classes/schools for me... yet. I'd love to take one of the racing schools but there just to freakin' expensive! Track days alone already do a number on my wallet... I'm actually seriously considering selling my GSXR this spring to focus my attention on Supermoto as it's SOOO much cheaper. I'd also like to try my hand at dirt riding...


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Let's get back on topic... 

How's everyone settling in?


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

"Swimmingly" for the most part. They still dart for cover when I approach the tank but come back out right away once I am there. Some coming right to the glass and check me out.
I have only seen one Severum at a time for the last two days, but no carcass to be found, I have checked my overflow and the sump but found nothing.
Feedings are a learning experiance on my part, took me a few tries to get the amount lowered from what my Africans would devour in like 30 seconds. They readily take mini pellets (both NLS and Aqueon), freeze dried brine shrimp and they all went NUTS over some freeze dried blood worms I had.
Last night put a smile on my face when they gave me a little "Parade"... almost all were swimming in line, one behind the other, all around the tank. At first I thought they were all picking on one fish, but couple of times the Leader would drop back and the next in line take it's place. Cracked me up...
After checking prices of Driftwood pieces on-line and on AquaBid, I know now why you harvest your own! Even though my tank is 6' x 2' x 2' being acrylic the two openings in the top are only 24" x 6" so it kind of limits me to the sizes I can physically fit IN the tank.


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Good to hear there all settling in well. Hopefully the missing Sev shows up...

Yes, driftwood can be quite pricey. I would definitely recommend trying to find some for yourself before splurging on a few pieces online. Like I said, I simply walk the banks of a particular section of river nearby. Most of the pieces I find have been in log jams where the water rose at one point and a bunch of debris got caught up around a tree or rock. Keep in mind you can always trim larger pieces down to fit. You may want to bring a small hand saw when collecting as you may see something that is to large to bring back, or is still connected to a tree.

As far as prep of the driftwood, I really don't do much. If it is already dry, I will simply hose it off with a strong stream and scrub it a bit with a scotch pad to get any loose dirt and debris off. If it's saturated I usually let it dry out completely outside, then clean it off like I said above. Many people go WAY overboard bleaching, boiling, and baking it. I feel all that is _completely_ unnecessary and have never had a problem, after all it is simply wood. The best kinds of wood to use are Oak and Beech, but I honestly can never tell the difference, lol. As long as the wood is free of bark, completely dead and relatively hard, you should be OK. Make sure it is completely dried/dead though as you do not want any green wood because it will still contain sap. The best pieces are going to be the ones that look the most weathered, as they have probably been floating around for quite sometime and all the tannins have already leeched out.


----------



## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Yea, I live on a small lake and the creek that is the outflow goes through my property. I am concerned about the micro-organisms that would be on it. If a decent piece can be found I could dry it, and even sandblast it... but would never BLEACH it, wood being porus and all I doubt you would get it all out. Never thought about baking it. I will put on the knee boots and grab the prunning saw and go for a walk... who knows, right?
Now there is this guy a couple roads over who has a AWESOME piece of trunk and rootball next to his Mailbox for decoration. :drooling: :wink:


----------



## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

As far as micro-organisms go, if it's been submerged I would definitely let it dry completely, then wash it, then add it to the tank. If it's already bone dry, not much is going to be living in it. And if there is, they are terrestrial and will die once submerged in your tank.

Usually within the first couple weeks you add a new piece of driftwood, you will get this weird looking "fuzz" like growth on it. It goes away within a week or so of showing up and is completely harmless. If you have a pleco it will even eat it, as my Bristlenose mowed it down pretty quickly.

And, I completely hear you about "borrowing" from your neighbors! :lol: Whenever driving through neighborhoods, interesting rocks or pieces of driftwood will catch my eye and make me want to turn around and snag them!


----------

