# Saulosi breeding tank.



## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

What would be the ideal number of saulosi in a 55g if you were going to have a breeding colony in order to sale the fry? Also would there be anything ideal to mix with this and breed both species without problems?


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## nicksdsm (Nov 24, 2007)

I don't know what the correct answer is but I just started a Saulosi tank of my own. It's 35g with 3m + 9f (give or take a male that is disguised as a female).


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## morzan280 (Jul 10, 2008)

im looking into doing something similer except i want three diffrent species in the tank so it can be colerful and productive at the same time. the way i figure is if i have 3 species of fry then it boosts my chances of being able to sell the fry to someone.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

3 species also runs the risk of hybrids and fry being valuable to no one. I just moved my 11 Saulosi from a 55 species only to my 125 community. I'm not sure tht I like the final outcome. A Saulosi species only is a sight to behold. I will have a time catching them in the 125 to move to the 55 again.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

I have 15 in a 39G species tank, 3m the rest female i think.
Once they start they don't stop


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## nick a (Apr 9, 2004)

In order to sell fry, a species only tank is the only way to absolutely 100% be sure of no mixes. Another species so dissimilar as to be obvious is the next best thing. Something like a Tropheops species or a Lake Victoria species--you need to get as far away genetically/visually as possible to increase the obviousness :wink:

Step 2 is to begin with absolutely 100% clean stock---garbage in/garbage out applies to fish breeding as well.

Step 3 is to prepare proper collecting/grow out tanks and food supplies etc.... You will rarely be able to sell fry the minute they are spit.

Step 4 is to consider the math and determine how many fry to collect. Once in full breeding mode, each female has the potential to spit say, 20 fry every 3 months. 9 femmes x 20=180
180 x 4 times a year =720 fry a year


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

You guys have 3 fully colored males in a 35g and 39g setup? I mean I know one is probably nicer than the other, but I didn't think that many would color up in a tank that size. Have any pics of your tank setups?

If I did this I am looking to get wild caught fish so I know the genetics will be good. I just didn't know if I could put something else in with them safely in order to give a more diverse group but still not worry about hybrids. I also though about putting a group of wild syno multies in with them. I know they sometimes interrupt spawns and I may end up with baby synos instead of saulosi, which might not would be a bad thing as long as they didn't ruin all of the spawns. At least the few interruptions would give me a different fish to sell instead of more saulosi to the tune of 700+ as mentioned.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Ok I believe I am going to go with 3m 9f for my tank. Do you guys think this is enough or should I up my numbers? All fish will be wild caught. I already have 1m 3f in the tank as of now. I just have to make sure my numbers are ok before I get the rest of them.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

No comments on this number?


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## nicksdsm (Nov 24, 2007)

Your numbers (3m+9f) sound good.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

You don't think I would need more than that as some people posted above that they have this number in a 35 and 39 gallon.


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## Chris2500DK (Feb 15, 2006)

12 is a good number to start with, if you feel like you need more fish later on you could always keep a few of the offspring instead of selling them.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Well guys I have the tank now completely setup. 3m and 9f wild saulosi. Just got the final ones in today. I do have a question though. Is there anything special I need to do as far as medication goes being that these are wild? I didn't know if there was something I should go ahead and treat with or if I just need to wait for any signs of parasites and such. Either way, what are the diseases and meds for the most common with wild so I can make sure and have them on hand? I spent way too much on this wild group to have them up and die on me, so any preventative measures I can take would be great, but just being prepared will make me feel much better.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

Probably not a bad idea to have some Metronidazole on hand. From what I've read, it is pretty effective against a wide range of parasitic infections. I'm not one who would treat their tank unless something was definitely wrong, though.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Congrats on the new fish & I hope they do well for you. I don't know anything about WC fish or what medications to have on hand, sorry.


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

Do not use metro unless you need to. It's a pretty harsh med and can cause more problems than needed if nothing is wrong.

Congrats. I had a 55g hex w/ 3M/9F. That was probably one of my favorite set ups. To use those tanks the best, make sure you pile the rock high. With saulosi, I had the best "yield" with fry when I put a flat rock up in the rock pile at a couple of heights. That was the preferred breeding site for my guys. My #2 male had a cave, but females rarely went over there.

Good luck!


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Here are a few pics. They aren't the best as they were taken with a phone, and I realized after the fact that there was a glare from the window. Anyway it gives you an idea of the setup.

Edit: Ok I was trying to post pics. I have never posted any before. Can somebody help me? I have them on photobucket and am trying to post the actual pics in the post instead of just having a link.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

On photobucket, under the pic there are links. Click on the "img" one. You will see the word "copied" flash by. Position your cursor in the Cichlid-Forum post where you want the pic to appear. Press Ctrl-V. Be sure you can see your pic by pressing "Preview". Then "Submit".


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)




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## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

stunning tank. I would do the flat rock idea, maybe get a few flat rocks with the same color as your other rocks. They might like that a little bit

Good luck, now i want a saulosi tank (my parents would kill me if i got another tank)


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

I honestly don't think pictures (at least these anyway) really do my tank justice. Everybody that comes over (including experienced fish keepers) all say "wow that is a gorgeous tank". While I do think the pics look good, it looks much better in person in my opinion.

And actually believe it or not those aren't rocks in my tank. I got the decorations from Petsmart, and it is suppose to be fake wood. However the way I have it stacked it looks like a cave or something. All the decorations weigh maybe 10 pounds which I especially like being that I am on the top floor of an apartment complex. I wouldn't be able to put as much real rock in as I would like to to weight issues.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Here is another full tank shot without the glare from the window, as well as a 2 pics of my dominant male, and the third male in line. The pics are in that order.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Honestly guys do you think 12 is enough for this tank? I was thinking of adding a few more but didn't know if it would be advised or not, or what ratio I could add. I was thinking of either adding another 1 male and 5 females for a total of 4m 14f, or either just adding another 6 females for a total of 3m 15f. My dominant male is chasing everybody in the tank all the time, not just the other males. I didn't know if 4 males would be too much for this tank. Either way I think I need more females as I only have 3 per male, and I personally think I need more to spread the aggression amongst the females better. Just didn't know if another male would work or not. One already is sub dom, but I think he will eventually color up once he gets bigger.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

I would vote for adding more females, but not more males. If your dominant male spends too much time worrying about other males in his territory, he is spending less time wooing females and mating.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Well 4 of them (1m 3f) have been in the tank now for over a week. That male is the number 3 male I posted a pic of earlier. He had a lot more color but turned yellow very quick when I put the others in. Today he is more blue again as he is trying to do his thing with the ladies, but he certainly isn't the blue of the dom male. The other fish have only been in the tank 2 days now. The dom males has basically staked out the entire bottom as his and runs most of the fish away even the females. Nobody seems to be really getting stressed or anything, but as you can tell by the pics most of the fish are using the upper portion of the tank more than I thought they would. I just didn't know if adding say 6 more females to give each of the males 5 would make the females more comfortable to get down in the rocks, and give the third male enough to want to color up more.


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

Adding more females won't make any of them feel more comfortable. I've done it and it won't help. The dominant male has stacked out part of the tank and he isn't giving it up.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Wow. Very nice looking! If you are not planning to pull females and sell fry, I would let it ride. Eventually, you will fill in your numbers. Usually, about one of every brood finds a hiding place and makes it in my tanks! I actually have 3M and 2 F Saulosi in one tank, and they are fine for now. I'm planning on adding a few more females from 10 babies I saved to grow out!


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Well I probably will end up pulling fry to sell them. I was asking about more females as the number 3 male wasn't coloring very well, and the number 2 was at the top a lot along with most of the females. Seem they have settled in a bit more now and I am feeling better about everything. Some of the females have some barring on them, so I'm hoping they actually are female. I'm going to attempt to vent for the first time this weekend when I do a water change. A few of the females fan out their fins and kinda lays sideways like a male does to display to a female. Only thing as "she" doesn't shake and stuff like males do. Is this normal behaviour for saulosi females? I have never seen a female do this before so was curious if I might have more males or what.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

chapman76 is THE most experienced Saulosi keeper whose posts I've had the pleasure of reading over my 3 years reading everything Malawi on this forum. If he says additional females won't help the male color up, I wouldn't bother. Don't forget you've got 3 males in a corner tank and you just added the fish. If they are already sexually mature, I'd wait 3 months or more to evaluate. If they are juvies, I'd wait a year.


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

Thanks DJ. They were the one that got me into Africans in the first place. Kept them for many years.

Time is your friend as far as coloring males and what not. If you want more females, get them. Don't count of that being what gets them to color up more. I tried it and it didn't work at better. I just gave it time and he colored up. Security and stability help the males color up.

I've had females do the dominance shake to the males before. Females have a dominance chain also. My alpha male and alpha female were #1 and #2 in the tank as far as dominance. Then came males #2 and #3. My alpha female wasn't the best looking saulosi, but she threw some great fry and was MEAN.

Just give them some time. You'll be more than happy. Your set up is quite similar to my old 55g hex tank.

Congrats!


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## DarbX1605 (Apr 7, 2008)

I'll chime in.

I currenly have my 120 in the living room stock Saulosi. I have 3 males, 13-15 confirmed females, and about 8-10 more that are too young to breed - but were vented by me at a younger age.

If you want a little variety - add some oddballs.

I have 4 Clown Loaches, a Julidochromis Marlieri, and an Eretmodus Goby in with them. The Julie and the Goby turned out to get added almost on accident - but they do very well with the Saulosi. No one bothers them, or the loaches, and I have 2-3 females holding at all times. I've given up stripping the tank once I have 100 fry in growout and dont strip until the last batch is gone.

If you've been to Petsmart - I'm sure you've seen the giant "Craggy Rock" fixtures - the $50 ones. I run 3 of those and 2 of the tall rock fixtures in that tank - the fish love it.

As far as the males go - my Dom male is Wild and is every bit of 5" - he's a monster. The subdom shows virtually no blue at all. I recently added a 3rd male who is 3" in when I picked up a group of 1M/4F to keep adding to the numbers. Over a month now - he's stayed entirely blue but will hide barring.

What Chapman says about females is correct. My dominant alpha female looks like your sub-dominant male, especially when holding.

They really are interesting fish. This tank is placed near stairs - so come 7 PM or later it's always fun to watch the entire tank chase whichever person or dog is going up the stairs looking for food.

I would recommend lots of current flow. Mine like to get up into the "jet stream" where my canister filter meets one of my Emporer filters and just hover in place swimming slowly.

Enjoy them. They are, by far, my favorite fish and I dont think I would unload that colony for all of King Midas' gold.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

My tank isn't nearly large enough for clown loaches, but it is getting better by the day to where I don't think I need anything else. The second male is still fully colored but does get chased and hides some. The third male seems to get along better with the dom and gets a little more color every day. I can't wait for these guys to start breeding. It generally takes a few months once you put them in a new environment correct?


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Mine bred the same week that I got them. I agree with Darbx1605. I have had many mbuna, but something about the personality of the Saulosi just draws you in. The only sure way that I have found to sex these fish is to vent. When I do that, i am astounded. What I think are females are often not, and vice versa.


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## DarbX1605 (Apr 7, 2008)

Try priming the females.

I feed Dainichi Veggie to mine as the staple - but they get frozen brine shrimp once a week after water changes.

Works like a charm, gives the females that extra protein to process eggs. I have not had Bloat strike once in my many Mbuna tanks with this combo - just lots of breeding


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

Never used live/frozen food in my mbuna tank. Slightly cooler water at water changes generally triggers it for me.

I do normally feed a staple that is higher in animal protein though. A lot of mbuna seem fairly bloat proof IME. The only cichlids I've ever had bloat issues with is mloto midnights and some species of Apistos.


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## DarbX1605 (Apr 7, 2008)

chapman76 said:


> Never used live/frozen food in my mbuna tank. Slightly cooler water at water changes generally triggers it for me.
> 
> I do normally feed a staple that is higher in animal protein though. A lot of mbuna seem fairly bloat proof IME. The only cichlids I've ever had bloat issues with is mloto midnights and some species of Apistos.


Really? I had alot of problems with bloat early on with some of my more aggressive Mbuna species.

I agree that water changes and lighting can really trigger spawning. I use the Brine Shrimp in coordination with both.


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

DarbX1605 said:


> Really? I had alot of problems with bloat early on with some of my more aggressive Mbuna species.
> 
> I agree that water changes and lighting can really trigger spawning. I use the Brine Shrimp in coordination with both.


I've only kept about 8-10 different species of mbuna. I've mostly kept different mid size haps (6-8"). I also tend to under feed my cichlids except when I'm trying to tigger breeding. I try to mimic the amout of food they get in the wild so they don't grow to the huge sizes that have become common in the aquarium trade. Not that it's bad, just something I've decided to try years ago.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Well in regards to feeding I feed only a pinch of NLS cichlid forumla twice a day. It is generally gone in 10-15 seconds. Do you guys think this is enough or should I up the feeding a little bit. The lighting is a T5 light. I'm not sure how many watts but can look to find out. I change 50% water every week, and the new water is always a few degrees cooler than the tank temp.


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## nick a (Apr 9, 2004)

chapman76, well said and valuable info for folks on feeding!

bccromer, nobody can really tell you exactly what to do/how much your pinch is etc....ask your fish! Seriously, that's the best way to moderate your feeding amounts/schedule. Are they getting fat bellys/cut back some. Are they lethargic, poorly colored, sunken bellys/feed more. That's the only way I've found to be confident on feeding for each individual tank's inhabitants.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Well I am somewhat in between on this one. I have one fish that has had somewhat of a fat belly since I got it. I was worried it was bloat but haven't seen any other signs. I watched the fish once and just figured it was being a pig as I think this is my dom female. At least I hope it is and not a male in hiding. None of the rest have this though. I have been feeding a little less to see if that ones belly will go down, so the others do have slightly sunken bellies at the moment. Not bad at all, just very slightly.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Question about my female with the fat belly. While I am very aware that cichlids mouthbrood, od they tend to get more plump when they produce the eggs getting ready to spawn? The reason I ask is this one has a big belly no matter what, and this morning I noticed her anus was protruding a bit. I have had cichlids that spawned before but guess I didn't really pay attention that much. Would this be considered her tube dropping? Just trying to learn signs to look for.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Nevermind the question above. Fatty was a mama stocking up I suppose. She is now the proud caretaker of my first F1 fry for the next few weeks. Her mouth doesn't seem very full, so I am hoping they "dance" a little more. They have done it 3 or 4 times so far in the past few hours. I fed them an algae wafer tonight instead of their normal NLS, so not sure if that triggered it or what. Anyway who cares.....I'm gonna be a daddy!!!!


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

If this is her first time, don't count on her holding to term. Most first time moms swallow or spit the eggs out.

Congrats though. Welcome to the world of neverending fry! Saulosi are highly prolific breeders.


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## bccromer (Apr 13, 2004)

Well I have had fry before but never bred them to sell, and never had any from wild caught. I'm not sure if it is her first time though as these probably were already mature long before they got to me. However, I noticed that she is eating today. Maybe she already swallowed them because I know I saw at least one egg drop when they were spawning.


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## ademb (Nov 19, 2008)

awesome tank there mate! *** got a 40 gallon tank that *** set up and i wanna try my hand at breeding some Saulosi aswell. *** got 1 male and wat i hope is 3 females so they hopefully should be a succesful little group. They arent the easiest things to get hold of in my area, so far *** checked out 5-6 LFS around southern sydney and this is all *** found lol.

My male seems to be in mid change to his bright blue coloration, im just hoping the two maingano that are in the tank too wont hinder him


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