# Apistogramma agassizi



## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

I just got a pair of small red Apistogramma agassizi and a pair of small German blue rams and put them in with my 2 Angels, 1 Dwarf gourami, 1 mature German ram and 4 serpaes. I realize now that the Apistogrammas may be too small for the tank/fish mates. How do I make sure that they get food as I feel they are too small (about the size of a neon tetra) and also don't end up being eaten by the Angels (larger one the size of 3 quarters).
How do I make sure they get food down to their level in the tank (they hide in the plants). I paid $40 for the little pair, they are beautiful and I would really like them to survive. I do not have a second aquarium to house them separately. 
Thanks a lot.
Cres.


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## Elvis Priestly (Dec 19, 2009)

I think I read somewhere about using tubes to get food down to somewhere you want it. Just put the tube in the water and drop the food down into it so that it makes it down to the fish. Has anyone tried this by the way?


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I had a pair of a. borelli with very large angels and there was no issue of them getting eaten, so I'd think you'd be OK with that. My little borelli female was quite tiny, but a pistol.

You're probably going to have issues with the blue rams, though, as they are a pairing fish and with three, someone is going to be on the outs.

I'd also, personally, keep more than four serpaes. As with all tetras, they do best in groups, with six a minimum.

I did not have trouble getting food to my apistos. I made sure that the angels were kept busy with flake in one part of the tank and then I dropped flake near where the apistos generally were. Some of the flake will rest of plant leaves, etc., and the apistos got it then. You might also try dropping a few shrimp pellets near their "spot" when the angels aren't looking.

Good luck


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*crescendo999*
what size tank is this? what is the footprint? Unless it's large, I predict that the aggies will end up killing all three Rams if the Aggies settle in.

I used to breed very large quantities of a.aggazizzi and a few variants... and they are not what I would call a timid fish. I never once worried about them getting food. They had no problems shooting up to the surface of a 2ft deep tank with large tetras, Discus, other apistos, etc.


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## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

Number6 said:


> *crescendo999*
> what size tank is this? what is the footprint? Unless it's large, I predict that the aggies will end up killing all three Rams if the Aggies settle in.
> 
> I used to breed very large quantities of a.aggazizzi and a few variants... and they are not what I would call a timid fish. I never once worried about them getting food. They had no problems shooting up to the surface of a 2ft deep tank with large tetras, Discus, other apistos, etc.


It is a 26 Gallon bowfront. 24"X 15"X 21". Thanks.


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## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

Number6 said:


> *crescendo999*
> what size tank is this? what is the footprint? Unless it's large, I predict that the aggies will end up killing all three Rams if the Aggies settle in.
> 
> I used to breed very large quantities of a.aggazizzi and a few variants... and they are not what I would call a timid fish. I never once worried about them getting food. They had no problems shooting up to the surface of a 2ft deep tank with large tetras, Discus, other apistos, etc.


This morning I see that the male Apisto has a bite missing in his tail fin. I do see that he is taking on fish bigger than him. So I shouldn't be worried about the injury and hope that he (and she) will take it on fine??


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## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

hollyfish2000 said:


> I had a pair of a. borelli with very large angels and there was no issue of them getting eaten, so I'd think you'd be OK with that. My little borelli female was quite tiny, but a pistol.
> 
> You're probably going to have issues with the blue rams, though, as they are a pairing fish and with three, someone is going to be on the outs.
> 
> ...


I intend to remove the Serpaes completely when the dwarfs are a little bigger. For now I have not seen them cause much fin nipping, thankfully. It is a 26 Gallon so I am a little wary of adding more fish.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

> It is a 26 Gallon so I am a little wary of adding more fish


Actually, you should be more than a little wary. You have, potentially, three breeding pairs of cichlids in a very small tank.

I had a pair of angels and a pair of apistos in a heavily planted 30 gallon with tetras. I sure would not have added a third species of cichlid to that mix . . .

You really should seriously consider getting a small 20 gallon tank (which you really need anyway as a hospital/QT tank), get a small HOB filter and put the apistos in there (or maybe the pair of rams) at least for now while you figure out what you want to do with the tank in the long-term.



> This morning I see that the male Apisto has a bite missing in his tail fin. I do see that he is taking on fish bigger than him. So I shouldn't be worried about the injury and hope that he (and she) will take it on fine??


I personally ALWAYS worry if a fish has a bite out of their tail and don't just assume they can handle it.

I think you're going to end up in trouble with this stocking. Sorry . . .


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

hollyfish2000 said:


> I personally ALWAYS worry if a fish has a bite out of their tail and don't just assume they can handle it.
> 
> I think you're going to end up in trouble with this stocking. Sorry . . .


 agreed... if the aggies settle in, they will kill off the rams, if they can't settle in, then whatever took a chunk out of his tail will finish the job as soon as he weakens.


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## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

Number6 said:


> hollyfish2000 said:
> 
> 
> > I personally ALWAYS worry if a fish has a bite out of their tail and don't just assume they can handle it.
> ...


Doesnt sound good, does it?! Drat!


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## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

hollyfish2000 said:


> > It is a 26 Gallon so I am a little wary of adding more fish
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be more than a little wary. You have, potentially, three breeding pairs of cichlids in a very small tank.
> ...


Would it help if the rams were only female and not a pair? Do you think that may reduce the competitive spirit between the rams and apistogramma?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

> Would it help if the rams were only female and not a pair? Do you think that may reduce the competitive spirit between the rams and apistogramma?


It may reduce the competitive spirit between the rams, but not between the male agassizii and rams. Up untill recently I had a trio of agassizii (1m:2f) and a bonded pair of curviceps in a 3 foot tank (pre-aquascape). The male agassizii would chase the smaller female curviceps at any opportunity. The female curviceps was smart enough to always flee straight back to her mate, which while about the same length as the male agassizii, had twice it's bulk and could easily stand up to it.

I know from experience mixing dwarf cichlid species can be just as difficult as mixing thier larger cousins. Care must be taken when selecting the right tank mates. I have had apsitogramma species killed by other dwarf cichlid species, and have had apistogramma males kill other dwarf cichlid species.

As *hollyfish2000* said, your tank is too small for 3 pairs of cichlids. There just won't be enough territories for them to all co-exist.

I am in the process of setting up an Apistogramma breeding setup, and am using 2x1x1 tanks for each pair of apistogramma. At the moment I am in purchase and quarentine process with the apistogramma, I have already Apistogramma cf. agassizii Broad Black Caudal Seam, Apistogramma sp. "Black-chin/Schwarzkinn", Apistogramma nijsseni and will soon aquire pairs of Apistogramma cf. trifasciata and Apistogramma sp. 'Rio MamorÃƒÂ©'.


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## Elvis Priestly (Dec 19, 2009)

I hope it's OK for me to jump into the discussion . I nearly bought a single agassizii recently (the shop just had one left and I thought about giving it a home). I had planned to add it to a community which includes 2 Rams and a Borellii. Would a single agassizii still be aggressive or is the aggression connected to pairing up and breeding?


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## aspen (Jun 15, 2004)

>>'I had planned to add it to a community which includes 2 Rams and a Borellii.'

how big is the tank?

rick


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## Elvis Priestly (Dec 19, 2009)

Around 100 litres.

Would that be pushing it?


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## aspen (Jun 15, 2004)

you should be ok with that. singles, males or females, can sometimes be agressive loners or mellow tankmates. raising them together from small makes a difference ime.

rick


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## Elvis Priestly (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks - I'll probably leave it anyway. Everyone's quite nicely settled in that tank and I wouldn't want to upset things.


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## crescendo999 (Nov 1, 2009)

Well, here is how it is settled. The problem was the large almost full grown ram who had been in the tank for 4 months. He was terrorizing all the new dwarfs. So I have sent him to the LFS and so now I have similarly sized, Apistogrammas pair and a blue ram pair. The two rams are inseparable. The Apisto male is pushy to all the dwarfs but I sense the rams will hold their own. In short for now, there is some degree of harmony. Hopefully they will all grow to tolerate each other. Will keep you posted and post pics as soon as I can figure out how. 
Cheers,
Cres


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