# Jack Dempsey ?'s Male/Female, Too Cold?



## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

I have 2 jacks that share a 40 gal w/ 2 turtles. They've been living together for about 6 mos. and I purchased the JD 1 week apart. I tried to get the 2nd one relatively close in size to the first one put one seems to be growing faster than the other.

Is "Jill" realy "Jack" and is "Jack" really "Jill".

Also, Jill seems to hang out over the turtles basking light an awful lot so I'm wondering if the water temp. is too cold. I have no idea what the water temp. is because I don't have a tank themometer but I don't keep my house and colder than 73 and no hotter than 75. I used to have a heater but the **** thing never worked so I gave up on it altogether. Do I need to be concerned about these 2 getting along? How big do they need to be to be sexually mature (if they are male and female).

Photos to follow[/img]...


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Good lord...how many different times are you going to post this? Sticking with one thread is better than having them plastered all over.


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

Photos:

Jill (I think)









Jack ( I think)










What do you think? Both females? Both males?


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## Lancerlot (Feb 22, 2006)

both males. I'm suprized they haven't killed each other. They must be To occupied with the turtles and worried about death more then fighting.

Which is bloody horrible. Means theses poor fish will be constantly stressed.


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

Okay...whatever...and you live in Canada! You poor thing!


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

He's just stating it how it is. A 40gal tank isn't even large enough for a breeding pair of jacks. You have two males stuck in there, plus two turtles. Not even close to being large enough.

Oh, but I'm in Canada too, poor me right?


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

Sinister...I don't know you but based on your first reply to my post i would say you have a severe attitude problem and don't give a rats what you think! Be gone now...


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## ZeroSystem (Sep 4, 2005)

Your tank is too small for JD's. They both look like males to me, which isn't a good idea even in larger aquariums. A pair of JD's (1 male and 1 female) would likely work in a 55g, but I think long term a 40g is pushing it, especially with the additional bio load of the turtles.


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## salukicichlids (Apr 16, 2009)

This thread needs to be deleted. Or locked or something. I already replied to his other thread from today anyway. What is done is done. Maybe it's the pics but his jacks look a little funny to me.


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## Geddonight (Aug 7, 2009)

salukicichlids said:


> This thread needs to be deleted. Or locked or something. I already replied to his other thread from today anyway. What is done is done. Maybe it's the pics but his jacks look a little funny to me.


I concur--their faces seem rounder than my jacks... weird.

Anyway, as an avid fish & turtle keeper, I also contend the following:

1) Your tank is too small for your Jacks

2) Your tank is too small for your turtles (unless perhaps they're muds...)

3) NEVER put anything in a tank with a turtle that you don't want eaten.

You are, of course, free to disregard my opinions--I do live dreadfully close to Canada, relative to you :roll:


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## Riceburner (Sep 3, 2008)

+1 
2 males in too small a tank to share with 2 turtles. Their colouring makes me think they are stressed as well. The roundness of the faces may be due to the photo angle though.

...but what do I know...I'm from Canada.


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## Lancerlot (Feb 22, 2006)

Rexamus said:


> Okay...whatever...and you live in Canada! You poor thing!


Hear "read what you want to read" and ignore whats right in your face, Even if it's the truth


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Rexamus said:


> Okay...whatever...and you live in Canada! You poor thing!


lol... your an idiot. he is stating 100% truth. Fish should NOT be kept with turtles... Turtles should not be kept in a 40g... Jack Dempseys should not be kept in a 40g... and 2 male dempseys should not be kept together.


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

ZeroSystem said:


> Your tank is too small for JD's. They both look like males to me, which isn't a good idea even in larger aquariums. A pair of JD's (1 male and 1 female) would likely work in a 55g, but I think long term a 40g is pushing it, especially with the additional bio load of the turtles.


Thanks for your help, glad to know someone at least cares enough about newbies posting questions to better their JD's lives...like me! For all you others, who have nothing good to construct to my question, if I didn't care about these fish I wouldn't be on this site nor taking the time out to take photos of them and posting them!!!!

Sorry if you Candadian's are offended by my comments, eh.

First of all, my turtles are size of a quarter and the fish are much bigger. I was told by the reptile shop the turtles wouldn't get too big. I had guppies in the tank the overpopulated and was looking for pop. control. The pet store recommended JD and said they are up for the task.

I have no objection in getting a larger tank...if need be. I like having the turtle fish combo but can't handle an over abundance of guppies. I got one thinking he'd be enough but a week later thought maybe a friend for him would be good too. My bad and I admit that I might have jumped the gun getting the 2nd. With that in mind and now knowing they are both males...what shall I do?

Thank you again for responding, in a consutructive way, to my original post.


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

salukicichlids said:


> This thread needs to be deleted. Or locked or something. I already replied to his other thread from today anyway. What is done is done. Maybe it's the pics but his jacks look a little funny to me.


I wasn't sure which type of cichlid they were so posted in the other categories. Didn't think Central American people would be looking at threads in African and vice versa so when I did find out they were Central American I posted here...SO SORRY TO HAVE TROUBLED YOU SO!


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

Geddonight said:


> salukicichlids said:
> 
> 
> > This thread needs to be deleted. Or locked or something. I already replied to his other thread from today anyway. What is done is done. Maybe it's the pics but his jacks look a little funny to me.
> ...


Thanks for your reply and I appreciate your "insightful" input.

!) What size tank would be appropriate for 2 turtles and 2 jacks? What sized tank would be appropriate for 2 turtles and 1 jack?

2) My turtles are the size of a quarter and one is a mud.

3) The JD's are much bigger than the turtles and all have been co-habitating with one another for 6 mos. Seems everybody gets along with everybody except the 2 jacks. My turts don't mess with any of the fish as a matter of fact...they are still babies!

Your in the states at least!


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

gage said:


> Rexamus said:
> 
> 
> > Okay...whatever...and you live in Canada! You poor thing!
> ...


Are you and sinister related at all? You are from Canada and all...


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

Riceburner said:


> +1
> 2 males in too small a tank to share with 2 turtles. Their colouring makes me think they are stressed as well. The roundness of the faces may be due to the photo angle though.
> 
> ...but what do I know...I'm from Canada.


Not sure if their coloring changes when it's close to feeding time which is when I took the photos. A round face...what exactly does this mean? Are you saying they aren't JD's???

Other than the one male, that is always in hiding because of the bigger one, all the fish and turtles alike seem to be living a pretty normal existence. I've never once seen my turts go after the JD's nor the turts going after the guppies!

I will give one of my male JD's to a friend if you think this will make things more pleasant. If I wasnt' concered about what I was observing I wouldn't be on this website!!! I'm here for help and thankful to those who are willing to offer it!


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## salukicichlids (Apr 16, 2009)

Sorry about the comment. There are two posts from today that sound similar. I posted on the other one about temperature and just assumed this to be a repost but it is not.

A 40 gallon tank is not really big enough for a Jack Dempsey. A 55 would be better suited. Two males should not be kept together in this situation or even if you move to a 55 the stronger one will bully the weaker one.

Either way spend 2 bucks and get a tank thermometer.

If the turtles are small I suppose you could leave them in the 40 for a while. I dont know to much about turtles I had a soft shell turtle when I was a kid and he lived in a 40 breader by himself. What kind of turtles did you get some can get pretty big?


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## mcpingeton (Sep 20, 2009)

My friend has 2 JD's and he noticed that the female has more blue specks on her gills and the male has almost none. I don't know if this is helpful or not but hope it is!


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

mcpingeton said:


> My friend has 2 JD's and he noticed that the female has more blue specks on her gills and the male has almost none. I don't know if this is helpful or not but hope it is!


Thanks! Most of the time the bigger one undoubtedly has more specks than the smaller one which is more plain looking to me. It was feeding time when the photos were taken;however, which could explain their colorful markings.


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Maybe your LFS will take back one of the JD. We all make mistakes when we are new to the forum and post in the wrong spot. That's no big deal. I agree you wouldn't be here if you didn't care about your fish. That is as long as you take the advise of the people here, I mean that is why your here is to get advise. Your just a little misguided in the care these fish require. I just feel what you said to all my Canadian friends was really rude. Not to mention this wasn't the best way to break into this forum. I mean you should read all the stuff people are saying about you in PMs. It's not pretty, not pretty at all.


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

Not sure what you mean about "LFS".

What rubbed me wrong about this forum was "Sinister's" comments about my posts (so sorry I was misguided about what type of fish JD's were, sure it's a common problem around here & anywhere for that matter!).

I really don't care about the opinions or PM's going around about me...Sinister and Gage, to me, represent all my preconceived notions about Canadians. Could be the weather sucks so bad their it makes the people grumpy and unpleasant to be around...so all they have is this forum. Whatever makes you happy!

I'm here to figure out if my JD's are habitable or not.

I bought a $3 aquarium heater but it was ****. I went back to the petstore and that was all they had. I went to a reptile shop and was told I didn't need one because I live in Florida and unless I kept my house below 70 it wouldn't be an issue.

This is all I'm here to find out...not start any sort of ruckus.

I


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## Geddonight (Aug 7, 2009)

Rexamus said:


> First of all, my turtles are size of a quarter and the fish are much bigger. I was told by the reptile shop the turtles wouldn't get too big. I had guppies in the tank the overpopulated and was looking for pop. control. The pet store recommended JD and said they are up for the task.
> 
> I have no objection in getting a larger tank...if need be. I like having the turtle fish combo but can't handle an over abundance of guppies.
> 
> ...


Hate to tell you, but your reptile shop was misinformed. http://www.korbo.com/tk/TKwYBSlider.jpg This should take you to a full grown Yellow Belly Slider. If he survives, he can easily get to be 10" in SCL (straight carapace length). The Mud should stay small-- 4-6 inches depending on the specific breed. He should be okay in your 40g long term as long as you provide lots of places to get out of the water--build ramps, get some driftwood, and make sure they go from the floor up out of the water. Mud turtles aren't strong swimmers. No babies are.

Your YBS will need at least 150 gallons. I recommend Rubbermaid Stock Tanks (large footprints)

Truth be told, though, knowing that you have juvenile turtles with jack dempseys makes me more nervous for the turtles than the JDs. A 2-3" JD could do immense amounts of damage to a turtle that small. Hatchlings already have a terribly high mortality rate...

If you haven't already, I highly recommend these sites:
http://www.turtletimes.com/
http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/

If you want a pair of jack dempseys, that's cool (so cool watching their spawning ritual), but I highly recommend getting a 75 gallon for them.

In females, you'll want to look for:
* Rounded dorsal and ventral fins
* More spangles on the gill plates than the top of the head

It's not a surefire bet, but it gets a lot easier to tell once they're 4-5 inches. Of course, at that size, they'd tear a hatchling apart.

Best of luck.

Now, work on your netiquette

Edit:
Simply put, don't house the two together. Jacks should be kept in warmer water (78 degrees F). This will also make them more aggressive because their metabolisms will be higher. Turtles will do fine in that temp. I keep mine in 77 degree water and keep my linked tanks a little warmer with spot treatment heaters.

While you don't have to worry about it yet, be sure to get shatterproof heaters, as turtles can do horrible things to them


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Rexamus said:


> Not sure what you mean about "LFS".
> 
> What rubbed me wrong about this forum was "Sinister's" comments about my posts (so sorry I was misguided about what type of fish JD's were, sure it's a common problem around here & anywhere for that matter!).
> 
> ...


no... I was in quite a happy mood before I started reading all of your bull****... really makes me feel bad for your pets knowing how mistreated they are.

obviously you don't care enough about them to research them before you buy them.

BTW it was 32 Celsius above yesterday


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

Geddonight, I really appreciate the useful information (links) you provided me...this is what i was looking for!

I know YBS get big...check out the picture of the one that came to my door -










I don't mind housing them in seperate tanks down the road, (the mud and YBS). When considering a Jack, at the petstore, I had concern he would be too aggressive towards my hatchlings, but was reassured there was no reason to be concerned. We live and we learn, right?!

I'm not looking for a breeding pair of these fish so I think I'll let my buddy take the smaller male.

I will practice on my netiquette if some of the members here would cool their jetts on newbies posting legit. questions to be answered. Seems they are looking for a fight and are too quick to start getting "flippy lipped" with newcomers. Honestly, I didn't think I would check back on this site after Lancelot and Sinister's posts because I felt I was dealing with a bunch of "WACKO's"!

Again, thank you Geddonicht for your useful post.

To all others...GET A LIFE!


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

See this, here? http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=201087

Pretty much the same thread, in the same folder. Which is why I made the comment about sticking with one thread. Don't see why that thread couldn't have been used to continue on the same conversation.

Here - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=201081 - I did comment asking about the temp to help you figure out if it was too cold, and gave you an idea of how to sex the fish, as you asked.

So wasn't sure why another thread was necessary.

Wasn't until people starting letting you know that your tank was way too small for your stock, and that the turtles weren't a good mix with the jacks, that you got an attitude. If you don't like the advice, don't ask :roll: Your comment about Canadians was completely out of line when you got the answer you didn't want.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Rexamus said:


> Geddonight, I really appreciate the useful information (links) you provided me...this is what i was looking for!
> 
> I know YBS get big...check out the picture of the one that came to my door -
> 
> ...


Your putting animals lives at risk... not many people here take nicely to it.

and at that... I don't care if your a newbie... all the more reason to RESEARCH...


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

Rexamus said:


> all my preconceived notions about Canadians.


Shouldn't we all be coffee swilling apologizing lumberjacks with funny accents then, donchaknow? Jeez and I was going to come on here and do some peacekeeping (another canadian stereotype?) but find myself piling on. Must be because i'm used to our funny football rules.

Because it wasn't explicitly stated:
1) Female Jacks tend to have more blue speckles, and often solid "patches" on the lower half of the gill plate and "chin." Males tend to be speckled, and usually only on the top half, so yes, both of your fish are definitely males.

2) You describe your smaller fish as hiding all the time and subsequently "leading a normal existence." If a fish is hiding all the time it is not leading a normal existence it is constantly stressed, more vulnerable to disease and will have a shorter life expectancy. It's good that you are removing him.

3) Depending on the dimensions of your 40g, you could ditch the turtles (since they shouldn't be in there anyway) and the lone jack could live a happy life in it. problem solved.


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## JerseyGiant88 (Jun 17, 2009)

Comic Sans said:


> Depending on the dimensions of your 40g, you could ditch the turtles (since they shouldn't be in there anyway) and the lone jack could live a happy life in it. problem solved


i would do that. *** never been a big fan of turtles and JD's are awesome fish and they're easy to keep. keep the larger JD in the 40 gallon and then once you feel like getting a bigger tank you could add a female later on or something.

also, the canadian comment was really not that serious. certainly not serious enough for everyone to blow a gasket like that. he definitely said it with a bad attitude, but it was really not that offensive...no reason to go call the mounted police or anything :dancing:


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

I think the reaction was to the persistent repetition of the comments, at least my response was.

We generally have pretty cool heads up here, but as stated, it might have something to do with the weather...


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

jez i think he should be banned for racisim and yes im from the states but have friends from canada. so if ur puttin them down ur puttin ur own kind down as we have canadiens livin in the US to, heck our own states suck at times and were commin into a depression again so we'll all be misserable for awhile tell teh depression passes, and if it wasnt for the canadiens we wouldnt be winning the war. and um if u havent passed histery u should go back cause

CANADA IS A PART OF THE USA!!


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## LittleFrog (Jun 28, 2006)

> CANADA IS A PART OF THE USA!!


I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, and I do appreciate your defense of Canada and all, but Canada is not and never has been part of the USA.


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

o sry bout that well then it is to me then i guess


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## LittleFrog (Jun 28, 2006)

lol, nope, 'tis a separate and independent nation, allied with, but not in any way a part of, the US. .


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

lol ya but to me it is cause u guys are like connected to us and were like connected to u guys lol, ok back to my thing, let me say this, we have a black or so they say hes black but me i think hes iraqi or sumtin mixed with jamican anyways we have a so called black prez if u wanna be mad at anyone be mad at him as hes screwin over our country!!


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

hes gunna make us go into WW3 sooner then u think.................. soo do u want to continue with racism??? didnt think so.


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## LJ (Sep 12, 2007)

Goodness this thread has revealed ignorance, and it's really sad.


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

tell me bout it. but im done hes just gunna end up makin me mad


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

Wow. yeah depressing thread, and since I think the OP is gone, so am I.


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## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

So dude what is your problem??? honestly you should probably calm down. Go buy a heater and change the temp to 78-80 I have no idea about turtles but your jacks are 2 males meaning they will kill each other eventually I have a few males in the 2-3 inch range in my tank and they already show signs of aggression towards each other any sign of a fish taking to much that fish will be immediately be removed. Seeing as how you gave up on heating you most likely dont have another tank to move the lesser dominate fish into. If I were you I would take one of the males back to lfs buy a heater and raise the water temp. Obviously separating the jack(s) and turtles would be ideal but you most likely wont go through that extent for your pets. Like I said I know nothing about turtles but is a tank full of water even ideal for them? Don't they need places to rest on out of the water and things like that?


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## Mr.Red (Sep 23, 2009)

i think you can still keep your 2 turtles and ur fish,if you keep up with lots of water change's 50percent per week.it would be great if you let one jack go or both and replace them with a pair of convicts. and you will get free feeder fish for your turtles  Good Luck


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

LittleFrog said:


> > CANADA IS A PART OF THE USA!!
> 
> 
> I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, and I do appreciate your defense of Canada and all, but Canada is not and never has been part of the USA.


What about NAFTA? It's coming, the boarders are gone. Soon you will see the Amero for money. Say goodbye to Mexican money, Canadian money and US money and hello to the Amero. Hear me now believe me later.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

His Canadian comment was surely not my reasoning for getting irritated, it was his bull**** attitude towards people giving him proper information, why attack people for giving him proper info? he's one of those typical dip shi*s we get that asks a question then gets mad when we answer... as far as I'm concerned he should have been banned after the first comment he posted.


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

why isnt this thread locked and the OP banned? hes racisit to the canadians so that sheould be the numer one reason for getting banned!


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

In case your not paying any attention, which some of you obviously are not, Zero System was the first member to reply to my post in a constructive way. I thanked him for his response!

How is that "attacking people for giving the proper information (according to Gage)?"

Gage, I think you and Sinister should be banned for your lack of compassion on a new member. You jump to WAY too many conclusions before getting all of the facts. You are ignorant! You think you know everything about me and my animals based on a question and some photos...yeah, I'm a real animal abuser! You know nothing and should keep you big mouth shut...you and Sinister and Lancerlot! If you don't have anything helpful to contribute than just move on to some topic you can help with. Don't criticize without knowing all the facts!

If members like this aren't banned based on pure ignorance than this says alot about this particular forum. Pick and choose the advice given because some members are, "over the top".


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## Linoleum (Aug 9, 2009)

haha far out, let this thread die.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Oh grow up and learn to take care of your animals properly.


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## Mr.Red (Sep 23, 2009)

oh people leave him along he obviously love his animals or otherwise he wouldnt even be here in the first place.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

:lol:... I open my big mouth when little pricks like you look at proper advise, then start criticizing it, then proceed to insult an entire country worth of people based on giving proper advise.

The fish ARE suffering when you keep 2 males of this species in the same tank alone, let alone with the 2 turtles, which are dirty as ****, and owning a 12" around Red-Eared Slider I know how dirty they are.

I tried to be nice, and it got nowhere through your thick skull...

I am a very friendly person on this forum until given a reason not to be, and your BS behavior brought it out, none of this would have started if you would have just taken the advise given in the beginning instead of arguing against the 100% proper advise given... being to get rid of the 2 turtles and a jack dempsey... but no, you proceed to refer to us as "poor Canadians" every time we give you honest answers, if you want improper advise, go somewhere else, seems as though you can't tell what proper advise is if it hit you in the back of the head anyways.


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

gage said:


> :lol:... I open my big mouth when little pricks like you look at proper advise, then start criticizing it, then proceed to insult an entire country worth of people based on giving proper advise.
> 
> The fish ARE suffering when you keep 2 males of this species in the same tank alone, let alone with the 2 turtles, which are dirty as #%$&, and owning a 12" around Red-Eared Slider I know how dirty they are.
> 
> ...


and ya u and sinister do give great advise and so do all the rest of the members that have helped me in the past to where i am now ( which i aint happy let me tell u lol i have a ton of con **** that i think my tank will explode from lack of space lol naw i only hvae 20 **** that are 3 months old bout an inch ) anyways ya i am gunna defend u guys for one reasson he ways puttin canada down, and i live next to to canada but wi sucks tho imo lol


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

Rexamus said:


> In case your not paying any attention, which some of you obviously are not, Zero System was the first member to reply to my post in a constructive way. I thanked him for his response!
> 
> How is that "attacking people for giving the proper information (according to Gage)?"
> 
> ...


*** been a member on here since i hink 05 and i dont see anything wrong with what everyone else is say. so ya u have 2 male jacks in a 40 or how ever big u say ur tank is bu i honestly think its a 29 maybe 30 anyways why not add an oscar to ur tank maybe a few jags o wait dnt forget those ugly a$$ blood parrots well ur at it. well wait i shouldnt say that cause then u might get some ideas and ACTUALY do that and if u do then i am gunna ask the mods to bann u. so imo get rid of the jacks and start out with biggner cichlids like cons hrps sevrums i think may fit but only 1 tho hmmm anything else im missin guys.

and the number one thing is NEVER PUT DOWN ANOTHER COUNTRY WELL IM A MEMBER THAT RIGHT THERE WILL P*SS ME OFF!! infact dont put any countrys down at all just cause they have more knolage then u do!!


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## Mr.Red (Sep 23, 2009)

conoholic said:


> I've been a member on here since i hink 05 and i dont see anything wrong with what everyone else is say. so ya u have 2 male jacks in a 40 or how ever big u say ur tank is bu i honestly think its a 29 maybe 30 anyways why not add an oscar to ur tank maybe a few jags o wait dnt forget those ugly a$$ blood parrots well ur at it
> 
> 75 gallon:
> 2 oscars
> ...


you are as bad or worse them "Rexamus" the guy with the two turtles and 2jds.
your tank is overstock buddy.


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

Mr.Red said:


> conoholic said:
> 
> 
> > I've been a member on here since i hink 05 and i dont see anything wrong with what everyone else is say. so ya u have 2 male jacks in a 40 or how ever big u say ur tank is bu i honestly think its a 29 maybe 30 anyways why not add an oscar to ur tank maybe a few jags o wait dnt forget those ugly a$$ blood parrots well ur at it
> ...


ok that stock was bout 8 months ago i havent had time to update my stock i only have a 20 gallon with a pair of cons and there 3 month old babys i think theres like 20. so soon like in a month the babys are gone andill only have the pair soon.. so im not as bad as he is infact im understck or stocked just buot right, right now.... so ya lol sry i havnt updated my stock yet lol


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## cichlidfeesh (Apr 6, 2009)

I know I'd be PO'ed if someone said "poor me" for living in the states. I used to have a bad outlook towards other country's until I started traveling. I was under the impression that all Europeans and Canadians were a certain way because of how mainstream media portraits them most of the time. Then I realized that my views of different countries were from word of mouth, tourists, media, and the internet (pretty sad huh?). Well I had the pleasure of doing some world traveling in the past few years and boy have my opinions changed. Canada is a very beautiful place with outstanding weather both in the summer and winter, and I've found the locals there very relaxed. When I went on my trip to Europe my eyes were really opened. Just experiencing the different culture was great!

-If you are going to criticize something, make sure you experience it first. I'd place money that youâ€™ve never been to Canada, and if you have you obviously didnâ€™t take much from your trip. Don't let forum posts dictate your conceptions of a country. Peoplesâ€™ posts on forums are usually direct, and that can be seen as rude. Saying things like "Your tank is too crowded" and "You're fish are going to die" are just a short version of a very complex and involved response. I bet that if you talked to that same poster in person their response would look something like this:

"With two male Jack Dempseyâ€™s and turtles in a 40 gallon tank you will most likely run into problems down the road. Male Dempseyâ€™s can get pretty big, I've seen some old ones that made a 75 gallon look small. They can also be very aggressive fish as the name implies (Jack Dempsey was a famous boxer). Two males might eventually battle for the territory of the 40 gallons available, and the more dominant fish would likely finish off his competitor. As far as turtles go I canâ€™t help you there as I have never kept any."

-- I have certainly been in your shoes. I caught a bunch of tadpoles outside in the creek and put them in a jar. Me and a few friends eventually came up with the idea of buying an Oscar to eat the tadpoles for our viewing enjoyment. Now, the only thing we knew about Oscars were that they like to eat things. So we went to petsmart and bought one. Hereâ€™s the fun part - we didnâ€™t have a fish tank, so my friend got an old ten gallon and we put him in there. Now we had no idea why he didnâ€™t want to eat the tadpoles so we called it a bust and he lived in that tank for a little longer until I bought him a 30 gallon. After he outgrew that I bought him a 55 gallon, and after he outgrew that I traded him to the LFS for a few clown loaches. He was a very cool fish and the reason I am so involved in the hobby today.

-- Itâ€™s very smart of you to come on to this forum to learn about your fish, and I hope you donâ€™t get discouraged by this thread. Fish keeping is a very fun and interesting hobby, but there is a bit of learning to be done :thumb: 
I wish you best of luck with your fish!


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## Electrophyste (Aug 5, 2009)

i have to do 100% water changes on my turtle and vacuum his sand like 3 times a week. If not you run the risk of salmonella. with that amount of water taken out, you have to realize the stress your putting on your fish. picture your in a box, once a week, you have all these pollutants being put in there, and then after a few days the air gets a little easier to breath in, then all of a sudden, your box is full of pollutants again, plus you have to worry about the other guy in the box whos a bit bigger then you and probably beats on you when the lights are out, plus the two things that try to eat you your whole life. i know idbe stressed out.

the only thing i would suggest puting in a turtle tank with turtles is gold fish. i actually put the survivours of the feedings in there, there the ones that have lived with my bigger fish, like my JD, for longer then a month without getting munched. My suggestion to you is to go and buy a used 55gal or 75gal, then set it up take your smaller male to your LFS and trade him for a her then you Jack will have a Jill and not jack and his B****.lol.

you also stated the fish in the pics were coloured due to feeding time, well they are not colourful JDs you have a full colour JD should look something like this


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Mr.Red said:


> conoholic said:
> 
> 
> > I've been a member on here since i hink 05 and i dont see anything wrong with what everyone else is say. so ya u have 2 male jacks in a 40 or how ever big u say ur tank is bu i honestly think its a 29 maybe 30 anyways why not add an oscar to ur tank maybe a few jags o wait dnt forget those ugly a$$ blood parrots well ur at it
> ...


... but conoholic understands and doesn't act like a goodfornothing prick about it. He's a good guy, the OP is not.


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## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

gage said:


> Mr.Red said:
> 
> 
> > conoholic said:
> ...


lol ya thanks, just need help now tho. im up to my chest in con **** and there growin like weed on steriodes so free feeders if i kne how to ship out fish but ya i may have some ppl that are willingfull to take them... again thanks gage


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

cichlidfeesh said:


> I know I'd be PO'ed if someone said "poor me" for living in the states. I used to have a bad outlook towards other country's until I started traveling. I was under the impression that all Europeans and Canadians were a certain way because of how mainstream media portraits them most of the time. Then I realized that my views of different countries were from word of mouth, tourists, media, and the internet (pretty sad huh?). Well I had the pleasure of doing some world traveling in the past few years and boy have my opinions changed. Canada is a very beautiful place with outstanding weather both in the summer and winter, and I've found the locals there very relaxed. When I went on my trip to Europe my eyes were really opened. Just experiencing the different culture was great!
> 
> -If you are going to criticize something, make sure you experience it first. I'd place money that youâ€™ve never been to Canada, and if you have you obviously didnâ€™t take much from your trip. Don't let forum posts dictate your conceptions of a country. Peoplesâ€™ posts on forums are usually direct, and that can be seen as rude. Saying things like "Your tank is too crowded" and "You're fish are going to die" are just a short version of a very complex and involved response. I bet that if you talked to that same poster in person their response would look something like this:
> 
> ...


thank you...I'm doing my best to learn more about my Jack Dempsey, originally only purchasing him to control all the guppies in the turtle tank. I found them interesting and caught myself watching them more than the turtles. I'm trying to make their life better but need information - not criticizm.

I'm currently looking for a 55 gal. aquarium just for the JD. My buddy took the smaller male on Saturday.

This thread has obviously not discouraged me that much...i'm still here. I learned who's here to help and who is not.


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

Electrophyste said:


> i have to do 100% water changes on my turtle and vacuum his sand like 3 times a week. If not you run the risk of salmonella. with that amount of water taken out, you have to realize the stress your putting on your fish. picture your in a box, once a week, you have all these pollutants being put in there, and then after a few days the air gets a little easier to breath in, then all of a sudden, your box is full of pollutants again, plus you have to worry about the other guy in the box whos a bit bigger then you and probably beats on you when the lights are out, plus the two things that try to eat you your whole life. i know idbe stressed out.
> 
> the only thing i would suggest puting in a turtle tank with turtles is gold fish. i actually put the survivours of the feedings in there, there the ones that have lived with my bigger fish, like my JD, for longer then a month without getting munched. My suggestion to you is to go and buy a used 55gal or 75gal, then set it up take your smaller male to your LFS and trade him for a her then you Jack will have a Jill and not jack and his B****.lol.
> 
> you also stated the fish in the pics were coloured due to feeding time, well they are not colourful JDs you have a full colour JD should look something like this


I realize the water changes probably stress the fish out. I don't think the turtles, even when removed from the tank during the cleaning, like it much either. Although, I don't do 100% water changes, I don't use sand. Plus I have a filtration system in there and that keeps the water pretty clean. I do a 50% water change weekly.

I'm looking for a 55 gal. w/ stand just for my remaining JD.

Your JD is VERY colorful! Did you get him from a petstore? How big was he when you got him? How big is he now? He's beautiful!


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## Electrophyste (Aug 5, 2009)

yes i did get him from a pet store and have grown him for 7 years to the best of my abilities, hes aroud 10 inches and is the KING of the tank without having to be a boss, its almost like the other fish know. When i got him he was a little under 2 inches. His name is Spook, thanks to my Girlfriend. lol.

And as for that 55 your getting, it should make a good home for your JD, mine also is in a 130gal so your might not get the size of mine but youll still have a great wet pet. But remember the bigger he gets the bigger the Bio-Load for your filter so if you want my suggestion, double up on the filter, if you get a 55 make sure your filter is rated no less then 100gallons, thats about 300gal per hour.

I suggest the rena XP series of canister filters myself. easy set up, easy maintenance, plus after your first initial prime, which is more or less you dumping water into a tube, all you do is fill up your canister with water, lock the top hoses and plug it back in, never having to prime again. There also quiet. For your size tank an XP2 or an XP3 would be needed.


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

Thank you for your suggestion on the rena. I was looking at those at petsmart (quite pricey) but I'm in no hurry...still looking for the 55 gal. w/ stand...

Spook looks really cool and I hope in 7 years Jack will look just as happy.


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

Rexamus said:


> I realize the water changes probably stress the fish out. I don't think the turtles, even when removed from the tank during the cleaning, like it much either. Although, I don't do 100% water changes, I don't use sand. Plus I have a filtration system in there and that keeps the water pretty clean. I do a 50% water change weekly.


Just because I've seen similar attitudes to this recently (which aren't bad, but a little misguided), yes a water change can be a littel traumatic and stress the fish out, but it is NOT changing that stresses them consistently due to poor water quality. What I really wanted to get at is that filtration is great (obviously essential) and can make your water "appear" "clean" (although what you mean is "clear"). Nitrates, nitrites, as mentioned above salmonella...All of these are invisible in the water.

I can't speak to turtles, 50% weekly would be good for just the fish, it's exactly what I do. Just wanted to repeat once again that clear does NOT equal clean. Water changes are essential to remove the stuff you CANNOT see.


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## Rexamus (Sep 20, 2009)

Comic Sans said:


> Rexamus said:
> 
> 
> > I realize the water changes probably stress the fish out. I don't think the turtles, even when removed from the tank during the cleaning, like it much either. Although, I don't do 100% water changes, I don't use sand. Plus I have a filtration system in there and that keeps the water pretty clean. I do a 50% water change weekly.
> ...


I change the water weekly whether I think it needs it or not.

I'm a little confused about your post...are you saying even with a renal filtration system I'll still need to change out the water (50%) weekly because of the nitrates that I can't see?

What size aquarium do you have? What type of filteration? How often do you change out the water?

BTW, I don't think your a coffee swigging lumberjack with a bad accent...


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## Electrophyste (Aug 5, 2009)

thats exactly what hes saying, just because you have to top end filter doesnt mean you dont have to still do water changes, Water changes are key to keeping happy healthy fish


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

my younger brother has a turtle setup its a 75 gallon houseing 2 red ear slider,for his filtration he has a wet/dry trickle filter.it works a wonder.but even with this he do %50 water change every friday.you should buy a wet/dry sump for the same price as a rena xp4 or a homemade one for under $50.the sumps are better them a canister.


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## Mr.Red (Sep 23, 2009)

Rexamus said:


> Thank you for your suggestion on the rena. I was looking at those at petsmart (quite pricey) but I'm in no hurry...still looking for the 55 gal. w/ stand...
> 
> Spook looks really cool and I hope in 7 years Jack will look just as happy.


Welcome back to the forum Rexamus ! =D> try getting a 55 on criaglist.com they usually go for about an average of $140 you might even a get a Rena xp3 with it! i own 3 rena xp's and never going back with powerfilters again.Good Luck


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

You can get a 55 gallon set up new at Walmart for about $175. Tank, hood with lights, filter (only a whisper 60) and a heater. To really keep the tank clean you should have 2 whisper 60 on it or a rena xp3. I wouldn't pay more than $75 or $85 for a used one on craigslist unless it had a better filter and a stand. There are a lot of good deals out there right now.


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

Electrophyste said:


> thats exactly what hes saying, just because you have to top end filter doesnt mean you dont have to still do water changes, Water changes are key to keeping happy healthy fish


Bingo. The most harmful "stuff" in the water is a) stuff you can't see and b) stuff that isn't filterable.


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## Comic Sans (Apr 21, 2009)

Rexamus said:


> What size aquarium do you have? What type of filteration? How often do you change out the water?
> BTW, I don't think your a coffee swigging lumberjack with a bad accent...


unfortunately space limits in an apartment has me down to a 29g. I have an AC70 providing slightly over 10x filtration. On a good week I'll do approx. 30% water changes twice a week. If I can't get one done during the week then by the weekend there is a lot to vaccuum, I get obsessive about getting everything, and probably end up replacing about 70-80%.

And I know, it was tongue in cheek. Glad to see this thread's turned around.


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Rexamus said:


> Thank you for your suggestion on the rena. I was looking at those at petsmart (quite pricey)


If you look on Ebay you can get them for a much better price than Petsmart. I saved $100 on my Rena xp4 getting it off Ebay than what my LFS wanted for it. Also, Bkeen has a filter for sale in the trading post you should check out.


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## Electrophyste (Aug 5, 2009)

i also will never stear away from the rena cnaisters, maintnence is too easy with out having to prime, if you go part by part off a sight like craigslist or kijiji then you could get it all cheeper. i got my xp1 on kijiji fo 50 bucks and my xp2 for 75 bucks. im hopeing i can find atleast an xp3 for my 130 gallon.if not im going to make a 45 gallon sump.

with a 55 you could probably put a scool of 5 tetras or barbs in with him to, might brighten u p the place plue he will feal dominate and his colours will explode. hope everything is going well with your tank hunt... jack will surly enjoy it when the move comes i garantee it


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