# Egg crate



## loganloganlo (Jun 9, 2011)

Where can I get some for really cheap? Looked at lowes and Menards and neither had it.


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## heyzeusbrains (Jul 12, 2011)

Home Depot... $12.95 for a piece about 72" x 24" or so. They don't keep it with the light bulbs, they keep it with building supplies and stuff like that


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## loganloganlo (Jun 9, 2011)

Thanks.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

They are kept in their own section called ceiling tiles.


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## londonloco (Mar 31, 2011)

My HD keeps it in both places.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Standard egg crate size is 48" x 24" to fit into a normal ceiling grid.


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## Chunkanese (Feb 4, 2011)

BillD said:


> Standard egg crate size is 48" x 24" to fit into a normal ceiling grid.


I purchased that exact size from Rona for around $6 here in Canada.


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## heyzeusbrains (Jul 12, 2011)

I may have been a little off on the size.

I have seen a lot of comments on here saying that the egg crate is not necessary, but personally I feel that the egg crate is a very good investment. My first tank developed a crack on the bottom a couple of days after I added some rock to the tank... luckily I was right there when it happened, I heard the crack and was able to save the fish and minimize the spillage. But it could have been a lot worse.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

heyzeusbrains said:


> I may have been a little off on the size.
> 
> I have seen a lot of comments on here saying that the egg crate is not necessary, but personally I feel that the egg crate is a very good investment. My first tank developed a crack on the bottom a couple of days after I added some rock to the tank... luckily I was right there when it happened, I heard the crack and was able to save the fish and minimize the spillage. But it could have been a lot worse.


Eggcrate wouldn't have made any difference unless it was stronger than the glass. Eggcrate is cheap, brittle plastic. It will not support anything that the glass doesn't. If the glass bends and breaks (incredibly rare), then the eggcrate would have also. Most, if not all, tank bottoms are tempered now, and wll flex quite a bit without breaking. But, eggcrate may soften the blow if you drop a large rock on the bottom of the tank. I prefer just to be careful and not do that. I did let one slip one time and it smashed a ceramic log. No damage to the tank. Rather than outfit all of my tanks with eggcrate, I'm more careful. Up to each to choose.


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## mcbdz (Jul 5, 2011)

Just my 2 cents but, it also will help keep the fish from undermining you rock work causing falls. I wish I would of used it now in hind sight. My venustus keeps digging under a large rock mountain. :?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

mcbdz said:


> Just my 2 cents but, it also will help keep the fish from undermining you rock work causing falls. I wish I would of used it now in hind sight. My venustus keeps digging under a large rock mountain. :?


If the rock pile is stable, and on the tank bottom, then digging out sand from under and around it won't undermine it.


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## Pizzle (May 24, 2011)

I thought that the reason to put eggcrate on the bottom is to distribute the weight of the rocks across a greater area of glass rather than allowing a rock with a sharp point to put too much weight on one small spot of the glass. Eggcrate makes me feel better. I got my 48" by 24" peice at Home Depot for $12.86 before tax.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I thought that the reason to put eggcrate on the bottom is to distribute the weight of the rocks across a greater area of glass rather than allowing a rock with a sharp point to put too much weight on one small spot of the glass.


That's the idea, yes. Up to each to decide if there's any truth to it, or need for it. I say no, it's one of those aquarium keeper things that get's started somewhere and takes off and won't go away. Span a piece of eggcrate across a couple of supports and then put a small rock on it. Then tell me it's going to add structual support to a tank bottom made of tempered glass. And if you want to go with the 'avoiding points of pressure' idea, then explain to me how you keep the tiny grains of sand (points of pressure, yes?) out from under it. Then tell me what it looks like when the fish uncover it or how easy it is to clean the sand once it gets into those little squares. And I never understood the sliding rock issue it supposedly resolves. I've stacked lots of rocks in lots of tanks, and mine have never slid or even hinted of sliding in any of them. But if it gives peace of mind to you, put it in there. I sleep well without it myself.


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

Pizzle said:


> I thought that the reason to put eggcrate on the bottom is to distribute the weight of the rocks across a greater area of glass rather than allowing a rock with a sharp point to put too much weight on one small spot of the glass.


Egg crate is not good at this, the structure of it transmits force straight down, and will flex more than the glass. It is a peace-of-mind thing that doesn't really do anything except make you _feel _like you are doing something.

This link has been passed around quite a bit: 



 (you can fast forward to the end where the guy stands on the rock in the bottom of the 10 gallon aquarium that is only supported on the corners)

If you are worried about cushioning a blow from falling rocks a 1/2 inch sheet of Styrofoam would do more than eggcrate would, or a sheet of silicone (like they use for baking). Eggcrate has some good uses for aquariums, but not as a cushion.


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## heyzeusbrains (Jul 12, 2011)

Personally after what happened I don't like the rock touching the glass, but that's just me. So the egg crate allows me to put the rocks all the way to the bottom of the tank (instead of on top of the sand), without having them touch the glass... I feel good about it!


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## newcichlidiot (Jul 7, 2010)

If the rock touching the glass is a problem for you then use a piece of styrofoam underneath. Not only if this more cushioning than eggcrate but it won't trap debris like the eggcrate. Personally, I don't mind a scratch on the bottom I never see.


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## loganloganlo (Jun 9, 2011)

Will egg crate help with holding plants in with anchors. I was wondering if I wrap the roots around a plant anchor and then secure the anchor under the egg crate then place my sand ontop if it will stop my cichlids from up rooting plants because if so I am more likely to use plants in my tank. Like Java fern that has an awful taste just to make it a little more colorful along with some driftwood to make it look like a natrul habitat.


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

If you use java fern just break up some lava rock, lace rock, or something similarly porous and tie the java fern to it with cotton thread. The plants will root to the stone and you can just tuck them in where you want to put it and even if the fish move it, it won't be free floating.


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## heyzeusbrains (Jul 12, 2011)

The styrofoam kept floating to the top so I went with the egg crate :thumb:


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## &lt;=U=L=T=R=A=&gt; (Apr 21, 2010)

It sure sounds different when a :fish: moves a rock and hits the glass floor with an egg crate than just plain glass  
Egg crate = peace of mind :fish:


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## nick a (Apr 9, 2004)

Understanding that I'm only running about 40 tanks, so I only have a small amount of experience, I agree with prov & mccluggen 100%. I've never had a fish move more than sand or gravel---if it is capable of actually moving a rock, either it's one giant fish or there was operator error involved with placing the rock.

Egg crate: urban myth + uneeded ugliness = waste of time



> (instead of on top of the sand),


 This is an incorrect method (operator error) & can cause instability. Rocks sit directly on the glass bottom--work & rework the rock and/or the rock pile until it rests *solidly* on the bottom. If the fish can then move the rock(s)--get smaller fish or larger rocks :lol:


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## car0linab0y (Aug 10, 2009)

If you use rocks with sharp edges/corners (ie; THR, lace rock, etc...) then yes, eggcrate does distribute the weight of the rocks rather than say the sharp points or edges of the rock. I work in a glass factory, and I'll tell you, the even strongest glass will break once scored (scratched).


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## &lt;=U=L=T=R=A=&gt; (Apr 21, 2010)

car0linab0y said:


> If you use rocks with sharp edges/corners (ie; THR, lace rock, etc...) then yes, eggcrate does distribute the weight of the rocks rather than say the sharp points or edges of the rock. I work in a glass factory, and I'll tell you, the even strongest glass will break once scored (scratched).


+1 I agree especially with holey rock..my eel moves them around :?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I don't work in a glass factory, just keeps lots of tanks with rocks that have scratched the bottom of the glass plenty of times. None have broken. It just doesn't happen. Where are all the horror stories here? Field testing has shown eggcrate is just not needed.


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## nick a (Apr 9, 2004)

> If you use rocks with sharp edges/corners (ie; THR, lace rock, etc...)


A cheap, simple and very effective method to avoid this;
--study how you want the rock to sit in the tank
---use a belt sander (60 grit works great) or a large coarse file to knock down the 'points' (I've actually had fantastic results by dragging the rock back and forth across the concrete in the driveway :thumb: )
----after 'point' removal keep working it until the rock sits solidly on the flat surface....no wobbles or rocking
-----then throw your plastic light diffuser panel (AKA egg crate) away.


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## AlphaWild (Apr 9, 2009)

I don't have any masonry genes, so my rockpiles occasionally take a tumble. I chipped an old tank that way, and it really worried me (prompting an upgrade of tanks). I'm glad I have the eggcrate in the mbuna tank now, but I may take it out of my other community tank that has fewer, larger, more stable structures as the peacocks keep exposing most of it and I haven't suffered any avalanches there. I do feel even the strongest glass will be compromised from a chip, as my truck's windshield will attest.


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

eggcrate light diffuser makes sifting substrate very difficult,I used to use a powerhead to clean out the little squares,I have a few tanks running,with alot of different types of rocks,*without* eggcrate,
make a stable rock pile(s)then add substrate,just repeating alot of previous posts from personal expierience


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## heyzeusbrains (Jul 12, 2011)

Obviously there are mixed opinions out there on egg crate, but I am not sure it has been reduced to an urban legend right yet. There is an article in the library section of this site entitled Setting Up A Lake Malawi Cichlid Tank that describes either egg crate or styrofoam as an essential part of a mbuna tank. So I guess this very site is helping to perpetuate the "urban legend". You want a horror story? How about coming back to work after a weekend to find an empty tank, wet carpet, and dead fish? It didn't go down like that because I was there on a late Friday afternoon when the tank cracked on the bottom. This was not do to falling rocks, it just cracked out of nowhere. I had the tank about 3-4 weeks, and it cracked 2 days after I added some rocks. So it happened to me. Now I'm using egg crate. That's my story!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

heyzeusbrains said:


> Obviously there are mixed opinions out there on egg crate, but I am not sure it has been reduced to an urban legend right yet. There is an article in the library section of this site entitled Setting Up A Lake Malawi Cichlid Tank that describes either egg crate or styrofoam as an essential part of a mbuna tank. So I guess this very site is helping to perpetuate the "urban legend". You want a horror story? How about coming back to work after a weekend to find an empty tank, wet carpet, and dead fish? It didn't go down like that because I was there on a late Friday afternoon when the tank cracked on the bottom. This was not do to falling rocks, it just cracked out of nowhere. I had the tank about 3-4 weeks, and it cracked 2 days after I added some rocks. So it happened to me. Now I'm using egg crate. That's my story!


You don't know why the tank cracked and if the eggcrate would have prevented it. Sructurally, no way it would have helped. Eggcrate provides nothing in the way of structural support. Connecting dots that shouldn't be connected is how these urban myths get started and perpetuated. And again, anyone talking about pointed rocks needs to tell me how you keep grains of sand (tiny points) out from under the eggcrate. Fact is, you don't. So, the eggcrate is not preventing pressure points. Whether or not these pressure points crack tank bottoms is another debate.


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## mccluggen (Jul 5, 2008)

I am willing to bet that most of the time a cracked bottom on a tank comes from improper leveling causing it to flex and put stress on the seals or glass. Add a sharp jolt to already stressed glass from a falling rock and you have a broken tank bottom.

The fact of the matter is eggcrate just doesn't do what people think it does regarding weight distribution and shock absorption. It is not rigid enough to provide structural support, and the edge to edge crosshatch structure transmits force from a strike straight down to whatever is underneath it. It is a piece of mind placebo remedy at best, and a nuisance and breeding ground for anaerobic bacteria at worst.

Pound for pound most of the rocks we use in tanks are lighter than the water we fill them with, the pounds that each inch of glass are supporting are pretty consistent across the bottom of the tank once full whether each individual inch is covered in water or rocks. If you wish to guard against a broken tank bottom your time would be better served stacking rocks properly, or gluing them together, to prevent falls.

If you are really looking for something to absorb shock and distribute weight you'd be far better served by siliconing a sheet of 1/2" styrofoam or some other closed-cell foam to the bottom of the tank.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> If you are really looking for something to absorb shock and distribute weight you'd be far better served by siliconing a sheet of 1/2" styrofoam or some other closed-cell foam to the bottom of the tank.


That was my other though as well. If you're really wanting to add strength or cushioning to a tempered glass tank bottom, pick something other than brittle plastic.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Most of, if not all, that was posted in this thread is opinion. Gets a bit murky when facts get in the way though.

If you sleeps well not using it then by all means do not use it, would not want anyone losing sleep over something trivial. Vice versa if using it gives you piece of mind, use it. Either way it will not affect the price of beans in China. There is no right or wrong needing mythbusters unless you have an ego problem.

Unless the rock work is flat, as suggested by a prior poster in this thread, there will be pressure points. Sand can be considered a dry liquid when applying its relation to pressure points and these points are evenly distributed so using sand as a fer instance is not applicable. The glass can for the most part resist the force imposed onnit but the point load remains. If you rest the rockwork on the glass people are not goin to die.

As noted instances of breakage are rare and uncommon, not really certain that the breakage isn't due to flexing or warped stands. But fact remains the less surface area used to support a load the more force is applied to that area. If I were to step on your toes in my work boots you might get a bit annoyed but if I were to do the same in my wifes pumps Be Sure we would not be speaking politely to each other in the future. :wink:

All the lattice work in eggcrate does is to spread the load imposed on the bottom just a bit more evenly while at the same time give a firmer attachment embedment in the tank. Similar in a way to snowshoes.

In our tanks with diggers and uneven rockwork we use egcrate :roll: For the record the majority of our tanks have never seen egcrate opcorn:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> There is no right or wrong needing mythbusters unless you have an ego problem.


Part of what I do to help the community here at CF is offer counter points when I believe someone is offering advice, opinions, etc that can cause either harm or unnecessary cost, etc. It's not always popular and in some cases, like yours, can be misunderstood. But, that's the way it is. I encourage ALL to offer their opinions and thoughts on this or any other post that comes up here at CF and not be discouraged by anyone out there that wants to accuse you of having 'issues' like ego problems. Don't be bullied away from posting. That's why we're here. Let's debate. It's good for the forum. And if there are myths out there, let's bust them. That's good for the hobby.


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## loganloganlo (Jun 9, 2011)

Who wants to get mythbusters to bust this one? We should sign a petition haha


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

prov356 said:


> > There is no right or wrong needing mythbusters unless you have an ego problem.
> 
> 
> >snip<
> ...


Everyone is entitled to their own opinions not their own facts. Debate is good and is an excellent way for this hobby to grow and people to learn. The day I stop learning will be the same day that I die.

Now reread my post and you will see I was not bullying anyone. Then reread this thread, I just did, and you will see that there was indeed some bullying going on ... waste of money and time for example and other statements like rocks being lighter than water. While it is true that concrete barges float, take a concrete cinder block with its 5% to 7% air-entrainment, put it on the surface of your tank and let go ... it'll drop like a sack of dirt.

Again what I said is it is a matter of preferrence wether or not you use lattice work under the scaping. If you do you are not wasting effort and money and if I said that I would be intimidating others to agree with me. There is no right or wrong and it indeed disperses the point load. Wether or not that is necessary is open for discussion but it does in fact disperse point load and that is a fact. That is the murky part I was speaking of in my original post on this matter.

Not looking to be argumentive and sorry if it came across like I was stepping on anyones toes. I use eggcrate on some tanks and I don't use eggcrate on other tanks, those are my choices , there is no right or wrong. Its preferrence.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Everyone is entitled to their own opinions not their own facts.


I've always disliked that expression for some reason, can't say exactly why. Here at CF people are free to post thoughts, opinions, and ideas and even their own facts as long as they don't violate forum rules. They do have the right, call it entitlement if you want to, to present ideas as facts whether true or not. It's up the reader to discern and decide.

I'd like to see some data on how effective eggcrate is at weight distribution. Seems to me that flexible items are less effective than rigid ones. So, might distribute weight a bit, but seems there are better choices out there for that.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

prov356 said:


> >snip<
> They do have the right, call it entitlement if you want to, to present ideas as facts whether true or not. It's up the reader to discern and decide.
> >snip<


That's a slippery slope used by many politicians and shills. One should present an "idea" as an assumption or assumed fact when there are no hard facts to back it up. Remember some assumed the world to be flat and a lot of misinformed held that as fact. And to really prove a point one could bring up Global Warming :roll: Just using that as a fer instance so please don't crucify me before reading the snippet above... Only time knows fer sure.

Keep in mind a lie oft repeated, by some, is assumed to be fact.

When all is said and done and the horse is beaten to death using eggcrate is not mandatory while at the same time it disperses point loads and helps stabilize rockwork. Those are facts not opinions.

fox out


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Keep in mind a lie oft repeated, by some, is assumed to be fact.


You mean like this one?



> it disperses point loads and helps stabilize rockwork.


And saying it's fact and not opinion makes it fact, you forgot that.



> Those are facts not opinions.


I'm sure we're entertaining people, but since we've each had our say, I'll be done now. But, don't worry, another eggcrate thread will be along any time now.


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

prov356 said:


> I'm sure we're entertaining people...


True story.  opcorn:

For the record, with my mechanical/structual design background I'm firmly in the no eggcrate camp.


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## newcichlidiot (Jul 7, 2010)

Now keep in mind this is just my opinion, +1 on the no eggcrate camp.


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## speciesonly (Aug 13, 2011)

Has anybody though of placing a piece of plywood underneath the tank to give support to the glass? It would have to be be cut out so that the black frame of the tank is not resting on it and not too thick so that the glass is sitting on it either. Maybe one eighth of an inch thinner?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

The tank is made to sit on the frame, not the bottom glass. This kind of thing is really unecessary and risks doing more harm than good.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

prov356 said:


> The tank is made to sit on the frame, not the bottom glass. This kind of thing is really unecessary and risks doing more harm than good.


Actually, this is only partly true. Yes the tank is made to sit on the frame so that you don't place the glass bottom on a solid surface that has a grain of gravel (point load). The first all glass tanks were built without a trim piece to raise the bottom, until customers started breaking the bottoms. A trim piece was added to lift the bottom to avoid this. A totally supported bottom pane is stronger than a suspended one and almost unbreakable. You can have a point load inside the tank with a rock sitting on a single grain of gravel (buntbarsch who posts here under the CARES threads lost 2 tanks this way). My opinion of eggcrate is that since it is rigid, it could have the same effect of creating a point load. A point load is unlikely using sand, but possible with irregularly shaped rocks. The fact that eggcrate sits on the bottom pane,, negates any concern about it's strength across a span, since it doesn't do that and is totally supported.


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