# 12 fish dead so far, no symptoms. Please help



## scarecrow1f9 (Dec 8, 2011)

220 gallon African and Nicaraguan tank. 
sump filtration through 55g of scrubbies, "live rock" and limestone in lower sump for buffering. Very established stock. 0 aggression.

3 weeks ago purple hair algae began popping up in my tank. I was kinda surprised, because I'd never had it before. The stuff spread like wildfire, within 3 days most of the rocks and driftwood were covered in wavy haired purple algae.

I checked water parameters... nitrates and nitrites - hardness, alk, PH, etc. Everything was perfect. I don't have an algae eater, as most of my africans usually ate any algae that popped up.

I did a 25% water change, like I do every week. An older, fish - my 10" malawi trout died that day.

The next day another died, an 8" Buccochromis. The day after that another died, my 8" Sand diver. I began doing water changes of 25% every other day.

Then it went to two a day, then 3. Today 5 are dead.

There are NO symptoms. They act fine, etc. I know which ones are going to die because they become lethargic and stop eating - then die within a couple of hours later. Oddly enough, all of the deaths have been africans - no Nicaraguans thus far. All of the largest fish are dying off, almost in order. My spilonautus, over a foot long, is my remaining big guy - I've had him forever. He started laying on the bottom an hour or two ago.

I'm at a loss. Upon inspection of the dead, their fins look normal, their gills look normal, and hey act completely fine up until an hour or two till death.

The ONLY connection I can make with the timing is that the moss began growing just a day or two began the deaths began. Yesterday I raised the temp a bit to 82 - because I read it would kill the algae/moss stuff. It did - they stuff is deing at an amazing pace and floating through the water. But after doing that the death toll per day jumped from 2 to 5. They keep eating the ****...

My tank is NOT the type of tank where you can just remove all the stuff.

This might all have nothing to do with the algae, could just be coincidence. But no new fish had been introduced in almost a year, no changes in water chemistry, and no signs of illness. Something is killing them FAST. If anyone has any advise, I'd appreciate it. Please help.


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## scarecrow1f9 (Dec 8, 2011)

Also - lighting is on a timer, and lights are low wattage LED. never had any kind of algae before this... the lights just didn't support it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I've had this type of algae before...it does not bother the fish. It does clog the filters though...are any of them hovering at the top sipping air? Any low oxygenation would be more of a problem at a higher temp.

The algae is likely decomposing in your tank now that it's dead/dying. Please post current results for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

When fish stop eating, bloat is always a suspect. If you had a death due to bloat (possibly undiagnosed) months ago, it could still be impacting your tank.

I'd try adding a filter to increase oxygenation, doing daily water changes to remove the dead algae and looking for bloat symptoms.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

I agree with DJRansome, continue daily water changes and clean away the large chunks of algae. It sounds like ammo or nitrite toxicity could be affecting the fish. "perfect" for the results is not very clear. If everything is at 0 I would bring some water to a LFS to get tested. Your test kits may be bad.

The raise in temp could suck up a lot of O2, along with the algae. More aeration would help bring in more O2 and release CO2. Post the water results once you have them.


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## biochemist (Oct 31, 2012)

Wow. Reading this post I felt like I was reading what was going on in my tank. A 180 rr with two vho on it. The redish / purplish algae appeared out of nowhere. Within three days two dead. Started daily 15 -20 percent water changes and scrubbed some rock as this stuff was flourishing quickly. Lost more fish...largest first... I aerated the tank by putting in four air stones continued changes for about a week as I watched my oldest and most favorite pass....

I purchased a test kit and all parameters were 0 except for nitrate at around forty. I also purchased two common plecos to eat the **** as the mbunas were eating it...been two weeks. I've kept up the aeration and all but what is left in the cracks of the rocks is gone. Lost about 10 fish. I see the plecos scraping it off with no Ill effects.

What I don't understand is what caused the bloom. The tank is established for ten years. Have not changed a thing in over 1.5 years other than purchasing new but same food obviously....Never even saw this stuff in my tank before. Now I think it has a foothold as it remains in the crevices where the fish can not reach.

Any thoughts would also be appreciated. The only thing is that I did do a water change after hurricane sandy about two days after as I was without power for about four hours because of the storm. I wonder if somehow this algae got introduced into the tap water system as I do not pretreat the water for changes....


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Look for issues other than the algae...really, it does not hurt the fish. Whatever caused the algae may hurt the fish or the algae choking the tank may hurt the fish...but don't get focused on the algae itself as the culprit.

I like to drizzle hydrogen peroxide (like one tablespoon for the whole tank) on the rocks (and my 3D background) that are exposed during PWC. That will take care of anything in the cracks. Make sure the solution does not touch fish or other organisms, but if it has a moment or two to sizzle before you refill, it becomes harmless hydrogen and oxygen so no rinsing required.


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## scarecrow1f9 (Dec 8, 2011)

Well, week later now, and all of the Africans are dead except for one lone OB. He's not gonna make it either.

Every Nicaraguan not only made it, but is flourishing.

I could not respond, but I did as you guys suggested and took a water sample to the LFS for testing. Very similar to my results, they came back with a PH of 7.7 (mine read 7.9), slightly hard water, 0 nitrate/ammonia/nitrite, etc. Clean bill of health. Just for grins though, I took the saltwater testing kit from my other tank, and tested the water for calcium and magnesium levels.... the magnesium levels were very high. Now, granted, the test was supposed to be for saltwater.... so... don't know if that means anything or not.

All of the algae died off - made a mess of the water, then regrew. It's back in full swing now. No idea what it's doing.

The O2 level can't be low in the tank. It uses a sump setup with 3-4 feet of freefall, then freefall from the 55g scrub pad tank to the return sump. It sounds like a waterfall in my livingroom, a really loud obnoxious waterfall. There's also surface agitation pumps (one on each side) and 4 air intakes around the back of the background. I'm a FREAK about oxygen levels. That being said, yeah, the Africans... and dieing Africans only, did appear to be gasping before they died. I also noticed each dying one having a slight curve to its body, though that could have just been from lethargy.

At this point it's all academic I guess, because they're already gone. So. Much. Money.

So, to anyone interested, the CA's (mostly nicaruagans) are ones suited for high PH and hard water, just like the Haps. If something - an illness, water impurity, or incorrect parameter - wiped out all the Africans, why would all of the Nics survive. What are the nics more tolerant of? Thanks for any input. The Green Chromide 9", Rainbow 4", Nicaraguan Macaw 4", Vieja Regani 4", and Pollini 5"(Not even a CA actually...) are the only survivors. All non African, and having the time of their lives in there. Just as happy and active as could be.


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## scarecrow1f9 (Dec 8, 2011)

good Point on the HP, Ransome. I've been making an effort to try and scrub things down I could get to - just out of desperation. I will try a small amount of HP.


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## charlie100g (Jun 28, 2012)

Man I feel your pain!!!I'm having the same problem.No algee but no symptoms either.they just started dying.I had 30 africans and I'm down to 10 left.I also have no idea whats going on!I lost about 2 grand in fish.Its not bloat!!!!!!I've seen bloat before this is not bloat!!!Their fine one day dead a few hours later.


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

Looks like three individuals all experiencing very similar issues in a short amount of time. What are the common factors?

If the issue was environmental, you would think it would have knocked out the CA's as well. The fact that it targeted only the Africans would suggest something viral... something to which the CAs were immune but the Africans were not. The next question is where would it come from? What are the common factors? Food, conditioners, medications, salts, etc......


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## lindseystar (Dec 23, 2012)

Anyone add any java moss to their tank recently? I'm having a major illness in my tank, going to search here for a solution and hopefully find one. Not a very merry Christmas going on here...


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

I would not rule out a virus but it would be very uncommon.

There is not enough info from everyone to draw a conclusion to say what could be a cause. Stress from high nitrates, ammo or new fish can cause fish to start to perish.

Daily WC with an product like prime and good aeration should help out most situations.


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## charlie100g (Jun 28, 2012)

Been doing some research because I'm having the same problem as you.It might be something called fish tuberculosis.Only signs are color fades,breathes heavy,may have cloudy eyes and white poo.From what I read it is capable of wiping a tank out in less than a week.Its very contagious an very hard to cure!They recommend just putting your fish out of their misery!jope this helps cause the stock in my tank is just about depleted!


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Fish TB (Mycobacterium marinum): Fish will present some or all of the folowing symptoms: skin lesions, bulging eyes, distended abdomen, open ulcerations, listless behavior, loss of appetite and spinal deformities.


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## charlie100g (Jun 28, 2012)

Fish tuberculosis - An extremely dangerous cichlid disease, fish tuberculosis is highly contagious and can wipe out an entire aquarium population. It can even be contracted by humans through cracks on the skin and cuts when they are fixing or cleaning the tank.

Among the symptoms of this cichlid disease are loss of appetite, sunken stomach, white exterior blotches, and frayed fins. If you suspect that one of your cichlids may have this disease, remove your entire aquarium population and place them in a hospital tank, making sure to separate the sick cichlid. Treat these new tanks with antibiotics like Melafix or Pimafix and make sure your old tanks are disinfected and the substrate bleached thoroughly or thrown out.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

charlie100g said:


> Fish tuberculosis - An extremely dangerous cichlid disease, fish tuberculosis is highly contagious and can wipe out an entire aquarium population. It can even be contracted by humans through cracks on the skin and cuts when they are fixing or cleaning the tank.
> 
> Among the symptoms of this cichlid disease are loss of appetite, sunken stomach, white exterior blotches, and frayed fins. If you suspect that one of your cichlids may have this disease, remove your entire aquarium population and place them in a hospital tank, making sure to separate the sick cichlid. Treat these new tanks with antibiotics like Melafix or Pimafix and make sure your old tanks are disinfected and the substrate bleached thoroughly or thrown out.


True for the most part. Infected fish (not just cichlids) will most often present skin lesions as a symptom. If you're not seeing this, then you may need to look elsewhere for a cause.
Also, Pimafix/Melafix are unlikely to have any efffect.


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

GTZ said:


> charlie100g said:
> 
> 
> > Also, Pimafix/Melafix are unlikely to have any effect.


You are being very kind with that phrasing. :lol:


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

TB can be common. A buddy here had a case but it only affected his blue rams. None of his other fish were infected. He ended up destroying the rams to prevent further spread.

With out a proper diagnosis you are just shooting in the dark.

It could have been your tap water. City water can be bombarded with chlorine to wipe out any bacteria growing in the pipes. It causes spikes in your tap water which can affect your tank. Or there could have been some other heavy metals that caused them to become weak.

Another issue could be nitrogen embolisms. It can wipe out a tank very quickly. Do you age or let your water sit before you add it to your tank? I had this happened when i moved once. I set up the tanks and filled them up, i let them sit for the day while I finished moving stuff around. They were fine when i put them in, but i only set up few tanks. The next day i filled up more tanks and spread the fish around. I started to loose fish with in hours. Syno cats, mbuna, tetras, pea puffers, and plecos all started dying. I could not figure out what happened other than my tap water. I tested it and it tested with in normal ranges. I read about the micro bubbles and figured that was it. I aerated my water for at least 6 hours before i used it and never had that happen again.


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## jonathantc08 (Nov 16, 2012)

scarecrow1f9 said:


> Every Nicaraguan not only made it, but is flourishing.


maybe your tank was at war when you weren't watching. IDK maybe your nicaraguans killed the africans.


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