# Angelfish Aggression



## kazfish (Aug 1, 2012)

Set up a 55 gallon tank with plenty of rocks and plants for hiding.

Stocked it with 14 nickel to quarter sized angelfish. 6 are marble black, 2 sliver striped, 6 are some combination of all gold to speckled gold. None of these fish vary much in size.

Some of the more delicated gold angels are really being attacked and chewed up. One of them barely has any fins left. This has been going on for a couple weeks now. I have separated one of the black angels in a holding pen -- only because it was the ONLY one without any chewed up fins. Seems like he may be the culprit based on not seeing any new damage being done.

How common is this with Angels? Is 14 fish in a 55 gallon too many? I am trying to breed them and thought this would be a good number to eventually produce a mated pair.

Any suggestions or help on why this aggression is happening would be appreciated.

Thank you!

Kaz


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Depends on how big the fish are, but 14 is too many to grow to adult size in a 55. As well some angels are just plain nasty, even at a small size and even in a smaller number can be a problem. Removing the culprit may help, or it may just move the next one in the hierarchy up to replace him. It really is a **** shoot, and it may be fine after that. occasionally you will get a group that will live harmoniously without problems, but no way to know in advance. Good luck with them.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Yeah 14 is way too many in a 55g. If you want schooling fish I'd cut that stock in half. Rocks not all important for angels except to spawn on and even then they might still just use the glass. That will clear up some space if you want. Plant deco works. I should really get my brother to answer. He's a angel guru


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## kazfish (Aug 1, 2012)

ok...thanks for the advise guys. would love to hear from your brother....the angelfish guru! 55 gal actually seems okay for this many fish....especially considering I have a cannister filter and 2 power heads on reverse flow. I guess I am being unrealistic.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Well when people usually get angel fish they are small, and its easy to see 14 in a 55g, but they do get a decent size, and eventually gets a little crowded. Even with filtration covered, fish need certain space based on their own specific needs. My brother talks about pecking orders all the time when he talks about his fish. We live on opposite coasts, he's still at work, but i assume angels have a pecking order in their groups, which is another reason for space. I know very little about angels, just some basic stuff i over hear from him since we were kids. I also know some of his are as big as my hand, if thats your species too w/e it is yeah aint happening in a 55g


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I tried keeping two pairs of medium sized scalares (2-3 inches) in a 55g and I couldn't. They'd fight all day and the dominant pair would push the lesser pair to the edges, hoard all the food, and just be a general pain in everyone's side. I know plenty of breeders that use 55s for grow out tanks, but as soon as the fish start to mature, they have to be separated/moved. Aggression in angels is almost inevitable. Try putting more plants and driftwood in to clearly define territory, and provide hiding places. if you're only looking for one pair, 6-8 juveniles will suffice. Let them grow to a few inches. Once they do, they'll start pairing off, and when they do pair, it will be quite obvious. Once that happens, remove the pair, put them into an empty 29g or a 20 tall with a piece of slate leaned against the glass, and they should start to lay eggs within a week.


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## kazfish (Aug 1, 2012)

This makes sense...I can see growing them to a certain stage in the 55g and then moving some fish to other tanks based on breeding pairs, aggressive behavior, ability to grow, etc. They are pretty much nickel body sized right now. A couple of them have all their fins chewed off down to their body. I returned the only fish that was slightly bigger than everyone else and lacked any damage to its fins at all. Looks like things have settled down for now. Thanks again.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

People think that because they are slower moving, and have nice fins that they aren't cichlids. I am just now keeping angels for the first time. I setup a 4ft 75 gallon for them, eventually moving them to a 4ft 90 gallon. I have two that have tripled in size in four months, one that has doubled, two that are surviving with not much growth, and five that just got picked on to death. They are probably worse to each other than most Malawians I have kept. I have seen 14-16" tall Angelfish... they get big.


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

Fogelhund said:


> I have two that have tripled in size in four months, one that has doubled, two that are surviving with not much growth, and five that just got picked on to death. They are probably worse to each other than most Malawians I have kept.


Similar experience here... Started with 6, and ended up with 1. I hope he is happy on his own! I'm not buying any more for him to pick at.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Fogelhund said:


> People think that because they are slower moving, and have nice fins that they aren't cichlids. I am just now keeping angels for the first time. I setup a 4ft 75 gallon for them, eventually moving them to a 4ft 90 gallon. I have two that have tripled in size in four months, one that has doubled, two that are surviving with not much growth, and five that just got picked on to death. They are probably worse to each other than most Malawians I have kept. I have seen 14-16" tall Angelfish... they get big.


Yea P. altum get pretty massive. The common angels, P. scalare, don't get much more than 6 inches though.


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