# First african cichlid tank



## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

I kind of jumped into this without knowing a lot about african cichlids so now I am trying to make up for that.

I am a 20 year old college kid who loves animals of all kinds. Have many different pets mainly reptiles. I have a fascination with fish so I gave this a shot.

right side of my tank:









left side of my tank:









The fish:


















MBUNA
rusty cichlid
yellow lab
red zebra
kenyi
malawi golden cichlid(melanochromis auratus)
demasoni
albino zebra

so this leaves out the duboisi, frontosa, electric blue ahli, and the venustus(sp)

My fish tank size is a 125 gallon fish tank. I just put all these fish in together at the same time about 3 weeks ago. There are 13 total and a large pleco. I'm running a canister 305 and a HOT magnum filter.

Plans: i am planning on adding maybe 2 or 3 or 4 peacocks to my tank for their color. I am also thinking about adding maybe about 5-10 more mbuna cichlids. I'm not sure which type as I am not familiar with them and dont know all the different kinds. I just know that I want a variety of color in my tank. [/code]


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you want one of each be sure you get all males. Well all one gender anyway, and people usually choose males because they are more colorful.

You also may want to stick to either peacocks and haps, OR mbuna. You have some of the most aggressive mbuna (auratus, etc.) and they will likely cause the peacocks and haps to not color up, be unable to compete for food, or they may even be attacked.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm sorry but I'm all new to this. What exactly are haps? How do you tell the sex of the fish? what about my tank so far?


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## BoostedX (Mar 1, 2009)

I believe DJ is talking about haplochromines (spelling is prolly off a lil). But any who sexing or venting.... oo=male oO=female Basically the vent where the eggs comes out is bigger then the poo hole.. Sometimes it is hard to tell till the female actually spawns. If you just pick a bunch of fish and dump them in a tank then you are asking for trouble. Seems to me your going for color basically with no intentions on breeding. http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/all-male_malawi.php Go to that link and read up on all male tanks. As far as the looks of the tank i would recommend a black background, get more rocks but choose one type. This IMO will make your tank look alot better. You can look at the "rate the tank above you" in this forum and you can get ALOT of ideas for your tank. GL with your tank and welcome to the addiction of cichlids!! :thumb:


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## esparzar1 (Jun 14, 2009)

Go to the profiles page and look under Lake Malawi. There are 3 sub catagories (Mbuna, Haps, Peacock) this will hopefully get you in the right direction. There is also some great info in the library area. Research, research, and then research some more. I research almost everyday and I still learn something new everytime I get on this website! Good luck with everything.....you're definetly in the right spot to get answers!!!!


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

I like the right side of the tank a lot more than the left side. Mbuna means rock dweller; they need lots of hiding spaces to be happy. A 125 has a lot of potential but you still have to be careful what you choose to stock the tank with and how many of each. Peacocks and mbuna do not mesh well as the above poster noted so since you already started with mbuna, you might as well stick with them. Mbuna do best in groups of 1M3F but preferably more females. For a tank your size, I would do many more. Some species are dimorphic so it is easy to tell gender, others are more difficult. There are some real spawns of Satan for mbuna and you have them; auratus, kenyi, and demasoni. You could easily keep the demasoni BUT you would have to add at least 11 more to prevent chaos (you could keep just the one but he might decide to pick on tank mates). Groups of less than 12 demasoni do not go over well and they will most likely kill each other. You may get away with a decent group of kenyi BUT they can also get really nasty, even the females and target a single fish, attack it, and torture it to death. Auratus is the worst of all and unless you really want this particular type of fish for breeding, you may wish you had never seen one. Another general rule of thumb is to only have one of each genus in a single tank. Red zebra and kenyi are both of the same genus so I would choose one. Also keep in mind that similar looking fish will hybridize so if you are interested in breeding and selling two similar looking species should not be housed together. Red zebra and yellow labs readily hybridize. If you do not plan on selling fry then they will be fine together. Were me, I would take back the kenyi, auratus, and demasoni and add lots of more labs and rusty. Personally, I would also take back the red zebra and trade him for something more attractive in the Metriclima genus? I would also let the albino go because sometimes it is hard to tell what species it is. Then I would add a Pseudotrophus species such as Acei or Socolofi. Next I would look at a Labeotropheus species. Also think about adding a few synodontis catfish to the mix. They will keep the bottom clean and give you something other than mbuna in your tank. Just remember the male female ratio and things will go good. In my opinion, duboisi, frontosa, electric blue ahli, and the venustus do not belong in this mix. For one, they do not all belong to the same lake. Frontosa get very large and will most likely out compete the other fish for food. Frontosa along with duboisi are a Tanganyikan cichlid. Mbuna are from lake malawi. They also like to be in groups not single. An electric blue ahli is a hap which as the above poster mentioned will not fare well with mbuna. venustus will also get huge and may snack on the smaller mbuna.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

*aandfsoccr04*

Welcome to the board and the evil that is keeping cichlids .

Huge props for getting a 125 out of the gate. Your tank, your taste it is all great...:thumb:

It looks like you went to the fish store and got one of each pretty fish and the LFS (Local Fish Store) and the guy told you they are all from Africa and they all go together. We have all done it when we started, I know I did, you are not alone here.

Things to expect from this stocking.

In your second semester of school you will find out these fish range from are aggressive to Aggressive to AGGRESSIVE.

You will end up having to take a fish or two out because it is not fun watching one relentlessly chase and beat on another. Some may get sick as they hide up in the corners or behind the heater.

I think this is almost a rite of passage.

One of this and one of that is just not a long term successful way of keeping these fish unless you have a plan of exactly which male fish you throw in the tank together and why you think they should work.

The most successful/enjoyable way to keep these fish is to buy groups of 5 or 6 species when they are young and let those groups grow up together and try to get ratios of at least 1 Male to 3 Females for each group.

Since you have a really big tank you have far more time and wiggle room than most people to start keeping these fish.

Time to drink from the fire hose .

I would suggest reading the profiles and the articles in the library section for each fish you currently own then you can and also search this board and the Tang and Front boards and read up on the 'common knowledge on keeping them. It takes time, but it will be a good diversion from school.

Searches like 'auratus tankmates' or 'auratus aggression' using the all terms switch will get you interesting threads to read.

Good Luck. Please ask questions as they come up.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

Ok well my first question is what is the light blue colored fish in my tank? I really like that powder blue color. I am thinking about keeping an all male tank. If you keep an all male tank do all your fish have to look different for avoiding aggresiveness the best you can? Also I really like this fish but I am not sure what he is? I just found a guy online and he gave me a list of africans and I picked them from his list...
Is the yellow lab in my tank and the two orange colored fish in my tank too closely similar to keep together?
Can i keep my duboisi in my tank and see what happens? it is the smallest fish in my tank right now.
also what is this fish?









He is brown with small speckles. I do like him a lot too...
Now:
to keep an all male tank I need to do the following...correct me if I'm wrong.
Get rid of my frontosa..
Get about 4 of each kind of fish I want to keep?
Let them grow up and then take out all the fish of each kind that doesnt have the brightest, vibrant color?

**my tank is 6 ft long...20 in. high and 18 in deep


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The powder blue fish appears to be a Metriaclima callainos, or Cobalt zebra (like the one in my avatar). Very nice fish, but as with all zebra types, aggressive.

With an all male tank, you want one male of each species, and you don't want any two males to look overly similar. You also do not want to make the mistake of adding a female to the mix by accident...It will increase the aggression and stress level in the tank, and the female probably won't survive. Stress leads to illness, so it can be a costly mistake.

The fish in the last pic is a Tropheus of some sort, but it's impossible to say the locale. It's still a juvenile. It does not belong in this tank with your other fish, though, so I would return him if at all possible. They are a bit more difficult to care for than your other fish, and don't do well with mbuna. They are also prone to bloat when stressed out, and this can cause endless health problems with all your fish once it starts.

As advised above, haps and peacocks really shouldn't be kept with mbuna, although there are a few of the more aggressive types that can hold their own. Your tank is large enough to forgive a few mistakes, but your haps and peacocks may be stressed and may not colour up like you want them to. And again, this may cause health issues...

The frontosa will grow large enough to eat some of your other fish.

You have fish from 2 different lakes, they have different needs...I suggest reading up on them a bit so you'll have a better understanding of what you're up against with this stock list. :thumb:


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## BoostedX (Mar 1, 2009)

Well said cichlidaholic!!

He is DEFF right on the research research research!!!! You will always learn something different everyday. And then you can go to the LFS and actually know what you are looking at!! Dont worry you will get this straightened out. One more question for ya did you cycle your tank at all or did you just buy the tank add water and fish??


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

Ok this is what I have in my tank...
If you guys can help me by telling me A. that I'm right and B the scientific name..

1. Kenyi maybe but idk?
















2.?








3. Venustus








4. Red zebra?








5. Yellow lab








6. ?








7. albino?








8. frontosa(getting rid of for sure)








9. demasoni








10. auratus








11. Duboisi








12. ? one of my favorites









my whole tank:









Thanks so much for all the help guys. It really does mean a lot. I'm sorry that I ask so many questions but am just one of those people that like to get it right the first time around. I am going to get rid of the frontosa for sure. Most likely the albino and the auratus as well. I would like to see how the venustus and the one demasoni and the duboisi play out in the short run. I am leaning towards an all male tank but may change my mind after i get my groupings of fish based on whether I have a lot of males in my tank or if i have a lot of groupings where it ends up 1 male to 3 females I may just stick with that. What would forums be without that new guy that asks a lot of questions? hey you guys are here to educate, or so I hope!


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

#1 looks like a hybrid kenyi or just a poorly bred one. By the photo it looks like a muttled brown and I count 7 stripes. Male kenyi are orange yellow and females are blue purple. They should have 5 or 6 stripes that go from the top of the dorsal fin and end in a point low on the body. Perhaps it is just a bad photo, but I guess it does not matter since you are trading them in anyway.

#2 is a trophus of some sort as cichlidaholic mintioned.

#6 is a peacock of some sort?

#12 is a cobolt. Metriclima callainos as cichlidaholic mentioned.

I think you have the others ID correct. Just type the common name into google and the scientific name will come up on of the findings. There is a great profile section on this site that has loads of pictures of males, females, and juvies. You could also got to a retailers website and look for your fishes picture. If you like the cobolt, get some more. Cobolts and yellow labs look great together so you could do two big groups of those like 12 each or so. All male tanks with mbuna are hard since some of them are monomorphic and even those that are not can trick you by taking the coloration of the other sex. Venting is the most accurate method, but the fish have to be at least 2 inches to get it right. Even then, venting is difficult, I know I have a really hard time telling! An all male tank has only one male fish of each species with no two males looking similar. For example, you would not want two male blue barred fish together in the same tank. It is much easier to do groups with mbuna and since most mbuna females are just as pretty as the males, there is no reason not to.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The Tropheus (all of them) are still going to be stressed out by some of the mbuna that you have.

Stress can do some real damage to a tank, and it can easily determine the success or disaster that will follow. Once you have one fish become ill from the constant stress, it's hard to get things back under control again. I really can't stress this point enough.

Tropheus are a bit of a 'prima donna' cichlid. It you house them properly (in large tanks with large groups of their own kind) it's really not difficult to keep them. But if you don't, things can go bad overnight. They are more finicky about their water, food, etc...They have different breeding habits...They will also crossbreed with more than one variant in a tank.

You really need to make a decision...All male OR breeding groups...You can't really just start throwing fish in a tank with these species and let whatever happens happen...It won't be pretty, and the fish will be the ones to pay the price, although you might wind up losing alot of money, as well.

You're off to a bad start, but what you do now is going to make a huge difference 6 months down the line... :thumb:


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

ok so if it were you guys which fish would you get rid of? Which numbers of my fish are mbunas? i am just going to do about 6 of each of the fish th at I like. Mbuna do not get very big so I think I might do five groups of six each? or can I do six groups of five each?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Which numbers of my fish are mbunas?


1,4,5,7,9,10,12



> i am just going to do about 6 of each of the fish th at I like. Mbuna do not get very big so I think I might do five groups of six each? or can I do six groups of five each?


If it were me, and I know it is not, I would only keep:

5. Yellow Lab - I would add 5 more of these for a total of 6

9. The 'Lil Demon - I would add at least 12 more of these, you need this many or you end up with only 1 - 6 is not an option.

12. Metriclima callainos (Cobalt) - I would add at least 5 more if they are young to get enough girls I might add up to 7 more.

I would add 6 Iodotropheus sprengerae.

I would also add 6 Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Msuli).

Your #1 and #10 are two of the hardest fish to keep - they are wicked aggressive and until you have tried some of the calmer mbuna (read me), I wouldn't go there.

I would use the analogy; if mbuna were rock music then the Kenyi (1) and Auratus (10) would be death metal, and the Yellow lab (5) would be easy listening.

Hope this helps.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks for all your help guys. i really appreciate it so much.

I think this is what i am going to keep in my tank. 
6 yellow labs
Are the red zebras that are kind of orange going to be ok with the yellow labs or are they too similar?
I am going to get one of each of these 
Synadontis Soloni- $12
Synadontis Decorus- $12
for twelve dollars a piece.(assuming thats a good deal)
I am going to get 6 aceii
I am going to take back my demasoni and get
6 Maingano Electric Blue Cichlid- $8 (electric blue johanni, hoping they are less aggressive than the demasoni)
6 more cobalts
6 Lavender Rusty Cichlid
Can i do 6 pseudotropheus sp. elongatus chewere in my tank with what I have so far?
Can i do 6 cynotilapia afra (cobue) in my tank as well?

that would be all of them. If i could do the last 2 then i would most likely get rid of the orange ones (red zebras) as well.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Are the red zebras that are kind of orange going to be ok with the yellow labs or are they too similar?


Very near 100% chance they hybridize with the yellow labs, if you don't want to save or distribute fry it isn't an issue.



> I am going to get one of each of these
> Synadontis Soloni- $12
> Synadontis Decorus- $12
> for twelve dollars a piece.(assuming thats a good deal)


$12 is a reasonable price, if you can swing 3 or more they will add a lot to the tank as a group.



> Can i do 6 pseudotropheus sp. elongatus chewere in my tank with what I have so far?
> Can i do 6 cynotilapia afra (cobue) in my tank as well?


One or the other not both - they both have blue bars, odds are the Cobue would end up not coloring up because of the chewere male.



> that would be all of them. If i could do the last 2 then i would most likely get rid of the orange ones (red zebras) as well.


I think I would do a couple of extra Syn. Cats before the red zebras, I believe a group of cats would add more to the tank, but that is just my opinion, your mileage may vary .

Good Luck.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Wow that's a lot of species for a 72" tank. I had 5 species in mine when I had mbuna in there for 2 years, the tank was very full. I've heard it advised that 7 would be OK but I definitely would not go higher. And if you go seven species maybe stick to 5 individuals of each species?

Avoid these combinations:
red zebras and yellow labs
any two metriaclima species, like red zebra and callainos
any two blue barred species, like elongatus and cyno. afra cobue


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

Ok well then would the chewere's be ok with the electric blue johanni's?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Ok well then would the chewere's be ok with the electric blue johanni's?


Yes.

I think you are at:

6 yellow labs 
6 aceii 
6 Maingano
6 Cobalts
6 Lavender Rusty Cichlid
6 pseudotropheus sp. elongatus chewere 
? Synadontis

Which should work fine in your 6ft 125 gallon tank.

Good Luck.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

yeah sounds good. 3 cats. thankssss


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

does it matter whether I get the synodontis petricola, synodontis eupterus, or the synodontis multipunctatus?


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

Nope, just pick which one you like best. Although I've heard the s. multi are best for fry control.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

do they all have to be the same type to add a lot to my tank or can they be three different types of synodontis?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> o they all have to be the same type to add a lot to my tank or can they be three different types of synodontis?


I'd do 3 of the same.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You don't want to keep the petricola, lucipinnis or multipunctatus alone, they like to be in groups of 5-6.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

6 yellow labs 
6 aceii 
6 Maingano 
6 Cobalts 
6 Lavender Rusty Cichlid 
6 pseudotropheus sp. elongatus chewere 
3 Synadontis multipunctatus

i'm sure you guys are getting sick of me but I am still not sure about my final product and dont want to mess it up this time. After a few days of research i am thinking that the. I am thinking about doing the cynotilapia afra (cobue) instead of the 6 pseudotropheus sp. elongatus chewere. The other thing is reading up on the maingano johanni's i found out that they were very aggressive. is there something that looks similar to the johanni and demasoni that would fit better in my tank with what I have so far?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> i'm sure you guys are getting sick of me...


Not at all, glad you are spending time learning before stocking :thumb:.



> The other thing is reading up on the maingano johanni's i found out that they were very aggressive.


The Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos (Maingano) will fit in fine in your tank, they might be the calmest Melanochromis species. I honestly don't think they will be a problem in your large tank - I would call them aggressive.

Melanochromis johannii is a different fish entirely. The girls and young are orange and is a more typical Melanochromis which means they will be a bit more aggressive, I would call them very aggressive.

Melanochromis auratus is a fish I would strongly discourage any first time mbuna keeper from trying, they are way up there on the aggression scale, extremely aggressive.



> I am thinking about doing the cynotilapia afra (cobue) instead of the 6 pseudotropheus sp. elongatus chewere.


Okay. The only concern is Cobue _may_ not show their best if they don't feel like top dog in the tank, they do have that reputation. The Cobalts would be the ones I guess might intimidate the Cobue.

The list you have sounds great - the Cobues would certainly be worth a try - it is really what you like. If you like the look of one way more than the other - get it.

With these fish there is no guarantee as each individual will have their own personality, but that is truly what makes them fun to keep.

Good Luck.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

I sold back all of my fish except for one yellow lab, my cobalt, and my venustus. I got back 60 bucks so i am not too disappointed with the transaction at all as I know it will be worth it.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

If I'm doing six fish of each species? how many males and how many females do I want? Should I do 1 male 5 females or 2 males and 4 females?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> If I'm doing six fish of each species? how many males and how many females do I want? Should I do 1 male 5 females or 2 males and 4 females?


Most of the fish you picked cannot be reliably sexed when young.

Your best bet is to buy juvies and letting them grow up together and returning any extra males that show themselves.

You want 1 male or three males of the aggressive species - labs,acei really don't matter nearly as much. 2 males = death match with 1 winner. Ratios you want...

yellow labs - M:F ratio doesn't matter much
aceii - M:F ratio doesn't matter much
Maingano - 1M:3-5F 
Cobalts - 1M:3-5F 
Lavender Rusty Cichlid - 1M:2-3F 
pseudotropheus sp. elongatus chewere - 1M:3-5F

I posted the following on another thread.

Looking at the cumulative binomial probabilities for getting at least 3 girls out of a group of random juvies (Yeah, I'm an enginerd :roll.

6 Juvies - odds of getting at least 3 girls 65.6%
8 Juvies - odds of getting at least 3 girls 84.6%
10 Juvies - odds of getting at least 3 girls 94.5%
12 Juvies - odds of getting at least 3 girls 98.1%

So it depends on what odds you are comfortable with.

Good Luck.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

thanks so much for the info. You've been great through this whole experience. Live fish direct said on their website that you can pick your fish male or female when they are 2 - 3 in. so I figured I would ask.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm gonna do the afra cobue instead of the elongatus.. so what should the ratio be for them?


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

i'm really stuck here. I can get fish 2-3 in. offline and they say they can sex them for me for 7.20 or juvenilse for 4.75 unsexed and don't know which way to go. what do you think? From my research it is very hard to sex mbuna especially when they are that young..


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

If you go with dimorphic species they can be accurately sexed at 2-3 inches. For monomorphic species venting is the only option. Venting is an art but everyone makes mistakes especially with such a small fish. If it were me, I would pay a few extra dollars just for a bigger fish and a greater chance of a good M:F ratio. Just get extra females in case one or two end up being a sub dominant male. The boys will like extra girls anyway.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

aandfsoccr04 said:


> i'm really stuck here. I can get fish 2-3 in. offline and they say they can sex them for me for 7.20 or juvenilse for 4.75 unsexed and don't know which way to go. what do you think? From my research it is very hard to sex mbuna especially when they are that young..


Personally, I would buy all small and let them grow up together:

6 - yellow labs, 
6 -aceii
8 - Rusty
8 - Cobue
8 - Cobalt
12 - Maingano (their pricing makes in impossible not to just take the 4 extra fish )

And trade in extra male troublemakers in time.

Good Luck.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

ok and my one last question before I add all my fish. EEEEEK i am so excited! I want to do the synodontis catfish as a ground cleaning crew and plan on getting 6 of them. the multipuncatus are 30 dollars a piece though and I do not want to spend that much money. However, I can get Synodontis Eupterus for 8 dollars a piece and would much rather go that route. Do you see a problem with this?

PS thanks sooo much for all your help. It is gonna help me out so much and make me have an awesome tank!


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> ok and my one last question before I add all my fish. EEEEEK i am so excited! I want to do the synodontis catfish as a ground cleaning crew and plan on getting 6 of them. the multipuncatus are 30 dollars a piece though and I do not want to spend that much money. However, I can get Synodontis Eupterus for 8 dollars a piece and would much rather go that route. Do you see a problem with this?


None.

If you are throwing these in all at once, which I would strongly recommend - How was the tank cycled?

Just a thought before you put all that money in the tank .


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

I've had this tank set up and running for over a year with the same gravel. It had the same fluval on it and all that. I just took out the south american cichlids and drained all the water since I was moving and decided I didn't want to do these fish anymore so I filled it back up and put the filter back on it and left a 12 in. pleco in there by himself. THen I drained 50% of the water about 2 months ago and then 20% of the water about a month and a half ago. and then a month ago I put in those 12 cichlids. I sold all of them except for the 3 I have left...
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by cycled but that's what I did..


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

How long has the tank had only 3 cichlids in it? You would want to have as many in it now as you want to add. The bacteria starts to die off once fish are removed.

Do you have test kits? What is the pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates in your tank?


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

The fish tank had 12 fish in it for about a month. I then took 9 of the fish out on wednesday and am adding 5 yellow labs, 6 rusties, and a blue cobalt tomorrow and then plan to order the rest offline this week. 
I tested my PH and ammonia a few weeks ago. The ph was 7.8-8.0 and the ammonia was 0


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What about your nitrites and nitrates? You will want to test daily after you add your 12 new fish and make sure the ammonia and nitrites stay exactly at zero until you get your new online fish.

Then how many will you be adding? I would only want to add about 12 more unless you are also adding Dr. Tim's One and Only.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

aandfsoccr04 said:


> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by cycled but that's what I did..


Please read about the nitrogen cycle here.

The Dr. Tim's One and Only reportedly instantly adds the bacteria you need to avoid an ammonia ramp and dead fish - this is a good idea to add this when you add the second batch of fish. You should not see a problem in under a week with a 125 if you don't overfeed.

Also, start changing 25% of the water *EVERY* week. Invest in a python - it will make it painless - but you must get in this habit or you will end up losing a lot of these new babies once they get a bit bigger and dirty the water a lot more. Once a month will simply not do.

Good Luck.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

Yeah I just was doing it so rare because I didn't have fish in it for a while except the pleco. I have never heard of Dr. Tim's one and only but I guess it cant hurt anything. i am adding the 12 fish tomorrow and then plan to add 41 fish :O
Tomorrow for sure:
5 yellow labs
6 rusties
1 blue cobalt

in the near future: (this friday or maybe a week from friday)
8 afra cobue
6 acei
3 more rusties
6 blue cobalts
12 maingano
6 synodontis eupterus

What do you think?

P.S. I bought a canister rena xp3 last night for 60 bucks from a local guy who broke down his tank. Should I put it on there in addition with the fluval 304 and the HOT magnum filter?
Please advise


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> What do you think?


Sounds great.



> P.S. I bought a canister rena xp3 last night for 60 bucks from a local guy who broke down his tank. Should I put it on there in addition with the fluval 304 and the HOT magnum filter?


Don't think there is such a thing as too much filtration is there? :lol: add it...in 6-8 months you will definitely need it anyway - $60 is a good price - congrats.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

all right. Looks like we are good to go. Should I have the additional 41 fish delivered this friday or next?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd say next to give your bacteria a chance to regrow to accomodate the 12 you are adding now. And make sure you have your test kit when you add the first 12 fish, and your Dr. Tim's comes in the same order as your 41 fish.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

what do you mean by my Dr. TIm's comes in the same order as my 41 fish? I'm going to run up to my LFS to get a test kit for nitrates and nitrites.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You don't want to add the fish without Dr. Tim's. And you don't want to add Dr. Tim's without the fish. It usually has to be ordered.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

ok added 5 yellow labs 6 rusties and a blue cobalt tonight. 
tested my water about an hour later. 
nitrate (no3) 40 ppm which is safe
nitrite 0 ppm which is safe
total hardness 250 ppm (very hard)
total alkalinity buffering capacity 240 ppm
ph is 7.8


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Good. Although 40ppm is safe it's borderline. Time for a partial water change. Watch to be sure that in 2-3 days you don't start getting ammonia.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> nitrate (no3) 40 ppm which is safe


With all the fish you are adding - you need to be pickier, under 20 should be your goal -always - I would freak if one of my tanks hit 40.

Like I said previously, you really need to ramp up the water changes and maintenance.

Get a python :thumb:.

Having 41 more fish will not be forgiving with lack maintenance.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

got my 50 foot python up and running and did a good ol 25% water change.

general hardness 120 ppm
carbonate hardness 180 ppm
ph 8.0
nitrite 0 ppm
nitrate 20 ppm

getting excited to add my new fish.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> got my 50 foot python up and running and did a good ol 25% water change.


Way better than the bucket brigade isn't it?



> getting excited to add my new fish.


You'll have to post pictures...


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

ohhhh yeah. Much better than carrying buckets up and down the stairs. You might not be able to relate if you never did it but good call my man. I think I'm gonna order them early this week and expect them on friday. I'll be sure to post pictures. I'm so nervous to order offline so hopefully its a positive experience.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are your pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Are you bacteria adjusting to the additional fish you already added well?


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

I just posted them right before that comment from my today tests. It seems to be just fine. I have only added the 12 fish. not the other 41 yet.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Excellent. And your ammonia=0 too? Sounds like you are ready!


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

Yeah. I should be good to go. I would love for you and goofboy to post pictures of your tanks. I really want to see that substrate you are using too. 
PS> thanks soooo much for all your guys help.


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

ordered the fish tonight and they should be here friday if all goes according to plan!


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

how bad of an idea would it be to throw one male peacock into my tank just for color.
say a 2-3 in. 
One of these 3 species:
Aulonocara Sp. Fire Fish Dragon Blood
Albino Eureka Red 
Aulonocara Sp. German Red


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## aandfsoccr04 (Sep 2, 2009)

?well?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Pretty bad.


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## Cichlidbud! (May 4, 2021)

ladybugzcrunch said:


> I like the right side of the tank a lot more than the left side. Mbuna means rock dweller; they need lots of hiding spaces to be happy. A 125 has a lot of potential but you still have to be careful what you choose to stock the tank with and how many of each. Peacocks and mbuna do not mesh well as the above poster noted so since you already started with mbuna, you might as well stick with them. Mbuna do best in groups of 1M3F but preferably more females. For a tank your size, I would do many more. Some species are dimorphic so it is easy to tell gender, others are more difficult. There are some real spawns of Satan for mbuna and you have them; auratus, kenyi, and demasoni. You could easily keep the demasoni BUT you would have to add at least 11 more to prevent chaos (you could keep just the one but he might decide to pick on tank mates). Groups of less than 12 demasoni do not go over well and they will most likely kill each other. You may get away with a decent group of kenyi BUT they can also get really nasty, even the females and target a single fish, attack it, and torture it to death. Auratus is the worst of all and unless you really want this particular type of fish for breeding, you may wish you had never seen one. Another general rule of thumb is to only have one of each genus in a single tank. Red zebra and kenyi are both of the same genus so I would choose one. Also keep in mind that similar looking fish will hybridize so if you are interested in breeding and selling two similar looking species should not be housed together. Red zebra and yellow labs readily hybridize. If you do not plan on selling fry then they will be fine together. Were me, I would take back the kenyi, auratus, and demasoni and add lots of more labs and rusty. Personally, I would also take back the red zebra and trade him for something more attractive in the Metriclima genus? I would also let the albino go because sometimes it is hard to tell what species it is. Then I would add a Pseudotrophus species such as Acei or Socolofi. Next I would look at a Labeotropheus species. Also think about adding a few synodontis catfish to the mix. They will keep the bottom clean and give you something other than mbuna in your tank. Just remember the male female ratio and things will go good. In my opinion, duboisi, frontosa, electric blue ahli, and the venustus do not belong in this mix. For one, they do not all belong to the same lake. Frontosa get very large and will most likely out compete the other fish for food. Frontosa along with duboisi are a Tanganyikan cichlid. Mbuna are from lake malawi. They also like to be in groups not single. An electric blue ahli is a hap which as the above poster mentioned will not fare well with mbuna. venustus will also get huge and may snack on the smaller mbuna.


Wow.. this post is so on point! Listen to ladybugzcrunch! I wish I had this info before setting up my prima donna 55g tank! I’m quite attached to my venustus, Kenyii, red zebra, and peacocks, but man oh man…. They have created such chaos. I’ve constantly got plexi separators in or have to moveone or two to time out tanks. One month later they rejoin the general population and within 5 days the bullies are back at it. Not their fault…. It’s fish ethics! Or as I call it “Fethics” 😂


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