# German Blue Ram Eye Issue - Genetic or Disease? You decide.



## FishTalk (Feb 26, 2013)

Hello everyone,

I have decided to post here instead of the disease section since this isn't a disease related question. However if you feel this fall within the disease section, than please feel free to move it.

I have been keeping German Blue Rams (GBR) for some years now. However on several occasions I have noticed the male ram developed a bubble close to his eye (near the eye lid area). I am curious to see if any other ram keeper also experience this issue.

I have attached an image for all of you to view. Looking at the image, one will probably conclude Pop Eye Disease or some sort of bacterial infection. This may be the case, but I still can't help that perhaps this can be a genetic anomaly.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...04849655.74609.318805764864979&type=1&theater

*Here are my reasons:*

- the infection is always around the eyes, what is the chance of those rams being affected by bacteria infection of the eye each and every time? Or is eye infection a more common disease than I was lead to believe?
- the infection happens to only the male rams so far
- I know that GBR are really inbreed, could this lead to issue such as eye infection?

Any other experience similar eye infections?

As for those that say bacterial infections, I perform 2-3 times weekly water changes so water quality is probably not an issue. The only possibility is that the ram due to territorial dispute could have injure each other or he somehow scratched himself on objects within the tank. However it is hard to believe that his injury is always around the eye area. What are the chances?

Thanks for any input.

Cheers.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I am going to move this to the illness center. I have never seen anything like this come and go, maybe someone will be able to help you over there!

Good luck!


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

it looks pretty close to pop eye. Do the fish get better or die from the bubble?

That looks to be some sort of bacterial infection. It could be the male strain you have is more prone to infection by a certain type of bacteria. Bacteria are always present in the tank, the fish are usually healthy enough to fend it off.

Does this happen to one fish at a time, a bunch of fish, or just randomly?

It could be an injury related infection. Maybe some sparring leads to damaged skin that gets infected. But your right in thinking that it always happens around the eye.

If it just one male once in a while i would not worry to much, if you are breeding a lot of fish you will get anomalies growing them out. If you only keep a few rams and they keep getting this you may want to try and do a treatment. More info is needed with the number of fish infected.


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## FishTalk (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks Dreday for the feedback.

Here are some responses to your questions:
Q: Do the fish get better or die from the bubble?
A: Yup the fish normally end up dying. They suffered for a few days and I had to put them out of their misery.

Q: Does this happen to one fish at a time, a bunch of fish, or just randomly?
A: Happen randomly. I probably have about 4 rams over the span of several years that have developed this. And it only appears on the male.

Comment: It could be an injury related infection. Maybe some sparring leads to damaged skin that gets infected. But your right in thinking that it always happens around the eye. 
Feedback: Yup, it is weird that the eye is the area that got infected. Perhaps rams are more sensitive or prone to eye infection? Because I do know that bacteria are always presence in the water regardless of how much water changes we do.

So no other ram keepers have experienced or seen something like this before? I am trying to obtain some data from other ram keepers. I want to see how common of an occurrence this is. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you kindly.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I have not seen that in rams specifically, though I have seen it appear quevery so often in livebearers, when I was working at a fish store. In my experience, antibacterials and large water changes have been quite effective at reducing/eliminating the swelling. I highly doubt that is a result of fighting. From what I've seen, fighting amongst cichlids, when it causes injuries, almost always results in damage around the mouth, along the sides, and on fins. Very rarely do I see damage around the eyes/head. As for why it has only occured in males, it may be that the Y chromosome in males makes them more susceptible to certain bacterial infections. It may also be that males are mre often injected with hormones to enhance colouration, thus weakening the immune system. Whatever the case, I would say that it is most likely a bacterial disease. Should it occur again, do a large water change, and dose a bit of a mild antibacterial, and you should see the swelling go down within a few days.


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## FishTalk (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback.

I too have leaned toward bacterial disease. But I'm curious to understand why it is the male rams that are getting it.

I have kept rams with other fish in a community tank and I have never had an eye issues to any of the other fish except for the rams. Perhaps you comment about them being hormones could be a plausible explanation. I know this is common practice in the industry. I can understand bacterial infection but it is hard to believe that is is always around the eye area. Perhaps male rams are more prone to this kind of disease??

I just wonder if its because they are a weaker strain due to inbreeding which can open them up to eye infection more easily?

Any other insights? Keep them coming...


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## Angelsong777 (Apr 15, 2013)

FishTalk said:


> So no other ram keepers have experienced or seen something like this before? I am trying to obtain some data from other ram keepers. I want to see how common of an occurrence this is. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thank you kindly.


I have also been having similar problems. I don't know how to get rid of this infection. I'm about to do a water change and another round of Melafix to see if that will do any good.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Just the one eye? Any abdominal or other swelling? Lots of possible causes including bacterial and genetics as mentioned. Another possible cause could be gas supersaturation. What's your water change method? Tap? Stored water? Well sourced water?


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## Angelsong777 (Apr 15, 2013)

GTZ said:


> Just the one eye? Any abdominal or other swelling? Lots of possible causes including bacterial and genetics as mentioned. Another possible cause could be gas supersaturation. What's your water change method? Tap? Stored water? Well sourced water?


Currently, I seem to have 2 rams that have the infection spread to both eyes, and my other 4 rams look ok. This round of infection got bad after a power outage on Mother's Day, but I did also lose a male ram to this a few months ago. I haven't noticed any other swelling. Small, almost daily water changes are done with tap water (conditioned).


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