# Other possible dithers



## cichlidsrule16 (Sep 14, 2010)

So I've been adding dithers to my tanks (first time ever using dithers) to liven them up a little and I must say I like what they do for my tanks. Well a couple days ago I decided to go out on a limb and add some giant danios to my tank that has 2 jacks and a jag, they're about 2.5"-3". They were striking the bag of danios before I even released them into the tank, must say it was pretty cool to watch! Anyway once the danios were in the tank the jacks and jag didn't really mess with them to much, the only fatality was the smallest danio and that was the first night but since then none. My question is what other possible dithers are there for a tank with these fish in it? The jag eventually won't be in this tank as soon as I can afford a bigger tank. I mean I know eventually it's probably a lost cause to add dithers but I'm willing to keep trying. To me it seems like some full grown barbs or some of the bigger tetras may work cause of there tall type body. I know the replies I get are gonna say not to do this but I wanna try so please let me know any and all possibilities that anyone has for dithers. I'm kind of excited to see how it turns out, thanks.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

dither fish are meant to be expendable, so I'd be shocked if someone found the rather natural event of a predator eating a dither fish to be objectionable.

I've had luck with Giant Danios, as you have. I've also had good luck with barbs. Expect the Jag to eat anything that weakens, or sleeps... think about a night light like LEDs


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## grd1616 (May 18, 2010)

I'd say barbs, tetras, giant danios or swordtails. But maybe someone with more experience with dithers could help you out more, dempseys and a jag, GOOD LUCK!!!


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

I do make some kind of objection to the idea of stocking fish into a tank with virtually no hope of making it. If they get swallowed whole, no big deal. If they get pounded on and ripped to shreds ----not the best way to go, but again I'm not trying to make any big deal of that. Just from my perspective, quite pointless to stock fish, if there not going to last.

Dither is a role that a tankmate performs. The role is to make the tankmates feel more comfortable and be more active, though some fish perform this role better then others. A dither is still a tankmate; not a feeder. If it's meant to be a feeder, then it's an awfully 
expensive meal. You'd be much better off using your unwanted fry/growouts or other unwanted fish, as feeders. You would even be better off buying feeders; there much cheaper then small schooling fish. Of course you always run some risk of disease, so not a good idea to feed feeders very often. From my perspective, the infrequant and occasional feeding of feeders to healthy fish isn't all that risky, as long as you don't put too many in the tank and the fish end up living with their feeders for some extended length of time -----then of course there would be some risk of spreading ich to your fish.

I think, if your tank is big enough, tin foil barb, silver dollar and/or leporanis have fairly good chance of making it. Heck, blue/gold gouramis have a better chance of making it with jag/JD, then any of the so called small dithers. All these fish will perform the dither role quite well, and as well, to a lesser extent, fullfill a role as target fish. Since you have already stocked giant danios, I'd leave them in ----- you might get lucky, though I rather doubt they will last with a jag and 2 jacks.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

The nervous behavior of a little school of potential food fish in the presence of a predator reminded someone once of fear and indecision (dithering) and so the term dither fish was born.

Over time, the term has grown to encompass active little fishes in the presence of a perceived (but not a true) predator and their use with timid fish. A natural evolution of the term... doesn't change the truth. Dither fish are meant (in many cases) to be the target of hunting or aggression. We like to choose smart and fast ones, and give them a fighting chance (my suggestion of night lights) but they are what they are... fearful little food fish that encourage other fish to come out into the open since the "food fish" are there.


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## ebjdftw (Aug 24, 2010)

I think you should stick with giant danios, you have them already, aren't too bad on the eye, and they are active and fast! How many do you have currently?


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Number6 said:


> ... fearful little food fish that encourage other fish to come out into the open since the "food fish" are there.


I'm sure your right on the origin of the word dither. But I know that it certainly doesn't have to be a small food fish to get cichlids to feel more secure and out and about. Many larger, active and confident fish can perform this role at least as well, as any of the small dithers. And they have a much better chance, IMO, with jag/JD. Like I mentioned before, from my perspective, if it's not going to last, little reason to stock it. But you have already got the giant danios ---- so see how it goes.


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## cichlidsrule16 (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks for your input but I'm not gonna torture fish just for the fun of it,if they're getting pounded on and beat up then I would take them out.Like I said on my op I know there's people that don't agree with me adding dithers to this tank and those of you that feel that way please keep your opinions to yourself.I simply want to liven my tank up a little and asked the readers to give me ideas for other possible fish that may work,I know the chances of dithers living in this tank are slim but if it works out then it'll be worth it.I'm the one spending the money on the fish so if they get eaten then oh well. The whole reason I asked is because I feed all my fish feeders,I have a breeder tank full of rosy reds and I know the giant danios look a lot like them so figured maybe they weren't the best choice for dithers so wanted some other ideas.I bought 6 danios and only one has come up missing and it was pretty small.The other 5 are a little bigger and they don't seem to really be getting harassed.All I'm looking for is some ideas and thoughts, I'm sorry if I'm coming off as rude but bernie's reply kind of got to me.I put in a lot of time and effort on my fish and don't wanna be made out as someone who is torturing fish just cause.Fish are eaten by other fish everyday,part of life.


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## clgkag (Mar 22, 2008)

if you the tank space i think silver dollars are your best bet.
their body shape tends to discourage predation. how big is your tank?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*bernie comeau*
not to be argumentative (it just comes naturally at times! :lol: ) but the term "target fish" has come up numerous times on many a forum for the larger robust tank mates kept in with cichlids and is used to describe the fish you mention. "Dither fish" is reserved for the usual smaller fast moving fish that aren't meant to ever actually be hit by the predatory or territorial cichlid.

*cichlidsrule16*, I really don't think Bernie meant anything negative in his replies at all. He is one of our ideal particpants on this forum. I believe that his point was that there are tank mates that may serve the same function as the dither fish would and you might want to consider those. it's an idea with some merit... Jags will eat anything that they "think" can fit in their mouth. My old fish once tried to swallow a fish that must have been close to 2/3 it's size.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Number6 said:


> dither fish are meant to be expendable ...


I would have to disagree here. I suppose, sadly, that dithers have evolved into this role on some sites across the net that like big, aggressive fish.

Dithers have always been perminate, full time members of an aquarium in which no aggression was ever directed at them. The term came about (in aquarium use) for tetras and other schooling fish to draw out dwarf cichlids. About the mid 90's it also started being used for juvy, larger centrals and such becuase they tended to be shy as well at smaller sizes. You could see the term change from the mid 80's to the late 90's in books and magazines and such. Now it seems to equate to feeder or target fish.

Or maybe I'm just a grumpy, old aquarist that prefers the days when dither fish were actually dither fish and there weren't intentional hybrids and youtube showing cichlid fights to the death.


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## Nick55G (Aug 30, 2010)

I have a african tank that originally was going to be a tropical community tank. So I have a pink kissing Gourami and a Dwarf Gourami that i had purchased, its funny because that little Dwarf Gourami is completely fine in my tank he may get chased a little here and there but I have never saw him bitten and he goes where he wants. The Pink kisser gets his fins bitten up fairly often because he will not back down lol he even pushes some of the smaller africans around. After seeing this Dwarf Gourami living in there I would say its just a role of the dice with dither fish. It depends on the personality of the individual fish you have. I truly think the Dwarf dose good because of his shape he looks nothing like any of my other fish so they do not feel threatened by him.


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## cichlidsrule16 (Sep 14, 2010)

I really do appreciate everyones info and help. I wasn't meaning anything negative towards anyone, if that's how I came off then I apologize. Like I said I'm new to the dither/target fish thing, this is my first experience with them. when I asked for ideas I was open to any and all. Guess I didn't realize dithers were only small schooling types of fish, I did consider other tank mates such as gouramis but I didn't think I had the tank space for anymore bigger type fish. This is a 75 gal tank, and no my intentions were not to keep a jag with two jacks in it. Thought I had another 75 lined up for the jag but the guy on craigslist sold it to someone else without telling me until the day I went to pick it up. Guess I shouldn't of bought the fish without having the tank already, that's my mistake. Thanks for everyones input and help. And just for the record, the remaining 5 danios made it another night and they are serving there purpose well. My jacks and jag are a little more active then before.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

dwarfpike said:


> Dithers have always been perminate, full time members of an aquarium in which no aggression was ever directed at them. The term came about (in aquarium use) for tetras and other schooling fish to draw out dwarf cichlids.


 Not sure how you think that small social food fish won't ever have aggression directed at them... I've kept dithers in with timid little dwarf cichlids and life was far from aggression free. More than one tetra lost a tail, and more than one tetra died what I believe to have been a shortened life due to apistos charging from the depths.

A great article that discusses the topic at length including the differences in target fish and dither fish.

http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=42

The truth, whether people want to believe it or not, is that Dither fish are being used and we accept the fact that a cichlid may injure or even kill the fish. We hope that to not be the case, we even take basic precautions, but these little food fish are like foot soldiers... we drop them in the tank for a purpose, they fulfill it and there is a chance that they will be injured or worse by the primary inhabitant(s) of the tank.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh I am not saying there will never be any aggression towards them, that would be nearly impossible. These are cichlids after all. I'm just saying that traditionally, being a target of aggression was not a dither's primary, secondary, or even tertiary purpose. In fact, if too much aggression is paid to them I would consider them a failure as dithers.

For example, I used to keep cardinal tetras with rams. Beautiful setup, but becuase the cardinals stayed lower in the water column, they were harrassed more than a dither should be. Hence the switch to rummynose, which stay higher in the tank and at least while watching the tank, even when the rams were breeding, didn't suffer runs by the rams at all. So to me, they were more appropiate dithers than the cardinals for the rams.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Number6 said:


> but the term "target fish" has come up numerous times on many a forum for the larger robust tank mates kept in with cichlids and is used to describe the fish you mention. "Dither fish" is reserved for the usual smaller fast moving fish that aren't meant to ever actually be hit by the predatory or territorial cichlid.


No, I'm definately not confusing the dither role with the target fish role. As one can see from the Paul Loiselle article (interesting article, 1st time I have ever seen it :thumb, the term dither fish is not reserved solely for small schooling fish. Red bellied pacu :lol: is listed as a potential dither. Certainly don't see why tinfoil barbs, leproranis, and silver dollars couldn't be called a dither fish? And on top of that, Paul Loiselle notes that a fish can perform both dither and target fish role, example from the article: Dwarf gourami and paradise fish --- the latter I would recommend for smaller C.A. in very small tanks. In a 75 gal. maybe leporanis could be an option, though it might be hard to find them large enough due to their small girth. And blue/gold gourami, somewhat risky with jag, IMO is definately still an option. Had some that did fine, and lived well over 5 years with aggressive CA/SA and Africans. A pic from 30 years back:









2 male JD, male mozambique, female gold mozambique, female mayan with male blue gourami in pic. Of course pic is just a pont in time; all fish pictured grew much bigger over time. Another pic of the same tank, though extremely blurry:









Male blue gourami on the left at the surface, very large female Crenicichla sp. 'venuzuela' who ruled the tank, female OB zebra and a couple others that I can't make out :lol: Anyways just trying to show that blue/gold gourami, IME, can do fine with some aggressive and nasty cichlid tankmates.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

dwarfpike said:


> Hence the switch to rummynose, which stay higher in the tank and at least while watching the tank, even when the rams were breeding, didn't suffer runs by the rams at all. So to me, they were more appropiate dithers than the cardinals for the rams.


a more noble goal and more noble role... to be encouraged certainly... but not the traditional use of the term. The traditional usage is more in the range between Bernie's usage and my own.

Only three fish geeks can get to page two on the label for "an arbitrary group of aquarium fish". 
:lol:


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