# Sudden fish death (sorry for multiple posts)



## laney_miller85 (Jan 8, 2013)

Hi Guys,

I am SO sorry for posting this several times. For some reason only the first sentence would post.

I came home from work today to find my lethrinops floating dead in my tank 

I have no what the cause of his death was. This tank (55 gallon) has been up and running for over a year with the current stock and there have never been any problems with aggression. My fish are reaching full size now, so there has been a little more bickering in the tank but nothing severe.

My current stock is:

-1 aulonocara baenschi
-1 aulonocara ruebescens
-1 otopharynx lithobate
-1 placidochromis electra
-1 aulonocara stuartgranti (red shoulder)
-1 copadichromis trewavasse lupingu
-1 ngara flametail
-1 Synondontis cat
-1 bristlenose pleco

I immediately tested my water. Nitrates - 40 PPM, nitrites - 0, ammonia - .25, PH - 8.0, temperature - 78. I'm a little surprised that my ammonia was testing at .25 as it's never tested above 0. I know my nitrates are on the high side, but I had a nitrate explosion when I went out of town for a while and had my fiancé take care of the tank. I'm in the process of trying to lower them back down to a safer level. I examined my lethrinops and all my other fish for any sign of illness and there were absolutely none.

I can only think of two possible explanations:

1. I've quite recently changed their feeding routine. I read that you should feed your fish less when trying to lower nitrates. I used to feed them twice daily, but I've reduced to feeding once per day. I feed about a TBS of New Life Spectrum pellets. I've heard that hungry fish can be more aggressive. Could they have beat the **** out of him? Although about 3", my lethrinops was the smallest fish in the tank (though he held his own quite well).

2. This is a stretch, but I cleaned out one of my canister filters for the first time in a while this past Wednesday. I changed around 40% of the water with it. Could I have caused a mini cycle? Maybe that's why I had an ammonia reading?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. This is the first death I've encountered in my three years of keeping cichlids. And he was my dude


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Sorry for your loss.

Cleaning one of your canisters should not have caused a rise in the ammonia levels so I would rule that out. One tablespoon of pellets sounds like a lot to me. Do you notice if all of the food is being consumed when you feed the fish?

Did you see any damage to the dead fish? Missing scales, eyes or injuries would be a sign he was being picked on.


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## laney_miller85 (Jan 8, 2013)

I feed the fish as much as they can consume within 30 seconds. Actually that food is gone in about 15 seconds. There is never any that goes uneaten. Does it sound like too much?

When I got home the other fish were eating at his body. His eyes were missing and his fins were a little tattered. On closer inspection I noticed my lithobates is missing a few scales. This has me leaning towards aggression. Is it typical for there to be such a sudden change in the aggression?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

If they are consuming all the food, I'd say you are OK.

Is this an all male tank? Any similarly colored males can be a problem as they are considered competitors, regardless if any females are present.


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## laney_miller85 (Jan 8, 2013)

It is an all male tank, however no two are similarly colored. I stocked the tank with suggestions from the forum. Other than changing around the rockwork, do you have any suggestions on how to manage this aggression? There isn't a clear dominant male in the tank. It seems like the electra, lithobates and red shoulder take turns being the boss. The other fish don't seem too stressed by them, though..


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

If the fish was eating and swimming normally one day and dead the next, that quite often is aggression. As far as what to do about it, that's not always an easy answer. First you have to determine who the aggressor is. Do that by watching the tank from somewhere where your fish can't see you--otherwise they will just beg for food. Also do some research on the species you are keeping to determine if any of them are known to be in-compatible with each other. Posting a question in the appropriate folder here on the forum will get some feed back on the compatibility of your fish. 
Once you determine who the aggressor is you might remove him, or remove some of the other fish and replace them with fish that he's more compatible with. Either way it's tricky. You remove the aggressor and one of the other fish steps into the role of aggressor and is perhaps worse. Or you keep the aggressor but he ends up still being aggressive towards any fish you put in there. You can have individual fish that are just plain aggressive. 
Unfortunately it's very common for previously compatible, peaceful tank--for years maybe--to suddenly have an explosion of aggression that results in severe injury and death. And then what to do about it: not easy. It's one of the downsides of keeping these fish. (I recently had an explosion with a tank that had been peaceful for over six years!!)
Robin


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## laney_miller85 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks for your helpful responses. I am certain it is aggression now. Finding the bully isn't going to be easy, though. It seems like as soon as I pick out a clear dominant male showing full color, the very next day he'll be completely submissive and somebody else will be the boss. Last night my lithobates was boss - he was chasing some of the other fish around, but nothing severe. He is the one that is missing a few scales, so apparently someone else was bullying him before he took on the boss role. Like I said before, usually it's my electra, my lithobates or my red-shoulder who are dominant, but occasionally I'll see some of my more timid fish in full color and chasing the big dudes. I thought I had a pretty good power balance in the tank. I've even seen my poor little lethrinops color up and chase the biggest fish in the tank! To make things even more confusing, sometimes it seems like the entire tank is against one particular (healthy) fish, but the next day all will be back to normal.

Exchanging fish is also impossible - I have no LFS that deals with cichlids. I live in a rural area and I order my cichlids online. So when I get a bully I don't know what to do with him. I just set up an entirely new tank just to house an astatotilapia caliptera that was too aggressive. I've even tried giving him away to friends and posting on Craigslist. So if I do have a big bully in this tank, I guess I'll start on tank #3...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

All male tanks almost require the ability to exchange fish. Might want to rethink your situation. No fish clubs within a 2 hour drive? Try posting an ad in Classifieds.


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## laney_miller85 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks, I'll give that a try. When I first set up my tank there was an AWESOME cichlid breeder that had been around for 30 years within a 20 minute drive. Once my tank was up and going and I made the drive back to get more fish, I found that he had gone out of business suddenly. I do make frequent trips to Ohio and there are some pretty good LFS in the Cincinnati area. Maybe I'll give that a try if the classifieds don't work out.


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