# Trials & Tribulations Pt. 2- Captain's Log... Demasoni



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

So this will be my journal focusing on Pseudotropheus Demasoni.

This is undoubtably one of the most popular mbuna cichlids right now, and a constant in the discussion here at C-F. Their brilliant blue barred coloration warrants that, and seemingly readily availability brings many a question to their care. Why are they, as DJ Ransome often says, the extra work cichlid? Well I guess I'm about to find out...

Here I will share all successes and failures. All info regarding water, food, scape, tankmates, filtration, photos, etc. I hope to educate others with this post, and help people make that decision if demasoni is really right for them.

Are Demasoni right for me? I don't know. I like naturalistic style tank set ups. Lots of rocks means moving lots of rocks when you have to remove an outcast. I have continued success removing fish from my 180 with 2 nets, so I'm hoping this translates to this tank.

I started with a 75 gallon tank. Actually, I started with a suggestion. The future Mrs. said ' you should put a tank in here.' Not sure if it was 'should' or 'could' but I guess it didn't matter. All she wanted was a colorful tank and activity. It's her office after all. As much as I wanted to buy a gaming PC for this office, I figured a nice tank would suffice. I guess I'll remain a console player  She likes fish, but doesn't like to talk about them for an hour straight(that's why I'm here). Space was somewhat limited. It turned from a spare bedroom to an office overnight, seemingly. This came at a time when I was planning a 125 CA tank, with a few fish already growing out for that project. I thought about what would fit the bill, and made my decision, kind of. But it had nothing to do with demasoni. In fact, Demasoni were never really an interest to me. I think I was so he11 bent on one species, that nothing else even made a close second. Once I had those, it was a only a matter of time to decide what should/could go with them. Having the GCCA classifieds as an option for fish got my mind racing. Then one night, after checking all the African offerings, it struck me. Demasoni. Perfect combo, right?

I'd be happy to further this post if anyone shows any interest.


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## shelbynjakesdad (Mar 13, 2013)

I'll tag along...

Demasoni are beautiful fish, if not for their "reputation" I would have selected them for my tank. I'm curious to read what you find out. I've never had any luck netting fish in my 55 gallon mbuna tank. There are way too many rocks and places to hide. I've had good success with the "bottle trap", but it takes a lot of patience to get the fish you are after.

Good luck... and post some pics!


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## Ramseydog14 (Dec 31, 2013)

Great thread Iggy,..I for one will be keeping up with your posts. I love Demasoni and currently have 8 in a 55 gall along with 5 Yellow Labs, 2 acei and 3 cyna afra YB and 1 male socolifi. I have had this group together for 3 months now and so far so good,..I haven't had any of the horror stories that I have read so much about. My group is by no means full-grown but the dominant male is close to it (over 3")..but other than chasing each other briefly, they have been relatively low maintenance so far. They don't bother any of the other types at all,..and the Socolifi actually runs off the dominant male Demasoni..and seems to keep him well in check. Post some pics as soon as you can Iggy


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## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

This should be fun to follow, I'm interested in keeping Dems one day...but don't have the space for "dem" right now. I'm in!


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## miDnIghtEr20C (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm picking up 3 or 4 F1's about inch and a half from Daves Rare Fish. Going to put them in my 140 with my multi African tank. I'll follow this thread too. Can't wait to see your results.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Well I am in for sure. I purchased 12 juve F1's from Dave and put them in with 7 juve rusties and 8 juve electric yellows. I've lost 6 demasoni total. Everything would seem fine and then one day I would find a dead demasoni. No signs of fin damage or anything. They are in a 65g and I think that is the problem. I am starting my own "daddy demasoni" project. Named after the largest/king of the tank dominant male that quit eating after breeding and couldn't save him with METRO. He was my daughter's favorite fish. Had to have a funeral and everything. I promised her we would not give up on the demasoni and thus started my 140g project. Cannot wait to hear more and participate in this thread! BTW miDnIghtEr20C I was very happy with the F1's I got and have had three females hold already. One about a month ago (have 3 F2's growing in a 10g) and her and another now. I think you'll be happy with them.


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## Eric_S (Feb 27, 2007)

Good luck. Should be a fun thread. I've been keeping them for about 7 years now. Every time I get the urge to move on and try something new I end up stripping a female and adding to the population :-? Funny how that happens. I just can't seem to give them up. They're a great fish.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Ok so here are some pictures. I'm getting pretty lazy and did not edit the photos to remove unsightly things. I'll come back tomorrow and give some more specifics regarding the fish themselves. But quickly, I bought 30 of them. Out of that, I've noticed maybe 3 with some undesirable barring. I have a photo of one.

Thanks to all who commented 


IMG_1450 by Adam James K, on Flickr

Example of the poor barring I was referring to above


IMG_1446 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_1444 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_1486 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_1488 by Adam James K, on Flickr

Tank shots. This light is eventually going. The beam effect it creates is just driving us nuts!


IMG_1441 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_1442 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_1495 by Adam James K, on Flickr


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## Eric_S (Feb 27, 2007)

You think that's bad barring? The ones that they have at my local fish store average 2 bars too many and diagonal bars are common :lol: . Just a terrible strain. Would never even consider buying demasoni from them. Great looking fish and awesome tank. Is that a 75? Or did I misunderstand? It looks bigger.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Well Eric, I guess I'm just picky  . Diagonal bars, huh?

Yes it's a 75. Thanks.


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## ITALIAN926 (Jul 31, 2012)

Please let us know if any die off right away. For me, no other species of cichlid ever died off like they do in the beginning. Two tries, the first batch I lost like 60%, and my 2nd batch I lost like 5 out of 30 because I was ready for the "bloat" potential.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

I'll be following this thread. Demasoni are on my short list for the next tank I set up so I'm eager to see how this goes. Fantastic aquascape in that tank! What other species do you have in there?


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Tank looks great. Love the rock work with the sand and the simple clean look. What kind of rock is that. Slate?? I have noticed some will tend to be thinner than others and have barring that is thicker and not as uniformed. I wondered if that was a genetic "glitch" or something. The ones that have that appearance are the ones that get picked on and chased more I noticed as well. I know one of the challenges is sexing them. I have noticed that females tend to stay a lighter shade, and will establish territory up higher in the tank where as the males will get really black - especially on the underside and tend to establish territory on the floor of the tank. I have only been able to confirm sex through mating, not willing to try and vent them. Are you going to try and get your demasoni to that ratio? The species profile states that M/F ratio does not matter with them if you have plenty of them, but I have heard different in discussions on the forum. Thoughts?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

According to Laif DeMason, split barring does occur in the wild. I have some adults with very odd looking barring but it doesn't bother me to the extent that it bothers some. I think they're still great looking fish!


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

I'll be following your thread Iggy! I really wanted to get them when I set up my last tank, but feared the "extra work' I keep hearing about. So saulosi were my #2 choice, sort of close in coloring, and I went with those instead.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks for the compliments on the tank everyone  I'm happy with the way it turned out. So is the Ms. If she would only learn how to do water changes.... :?

The rock used was sold to me as 'Aqua Blue' at my local landscape place. I bought 300 lbs, and used everything but one boulder. I need to go back for some more once the snow melts to grab some of the smaller pieces that are undoubtably at the bottom. Lucky I didn't turn an ankle digging it out. I actually bought several hundred lbs of this 2 years ago, but ended up not using it in a 125. I traded it to my Dad for some firewood for a party I was having. He made out like a bandit.

So I bought 30 demasoni from a breeder on 2/16. He advertised 6 for $20. That's a pretty good deal, considering they're usually 9-10 bucks from an online vendor. I just saw some adults at an LFS for $45 each! Can you believe that?! I ended up getting all 30 for $75, so I was pretty pumped about the deal.

There were 10 per bag, and had nipped each other up pretty good. After a week or so, they have healed up nicely. They were supposed to be 1.25" or slightly larger, and most of them were. I believe they've noticeably grown, but there are a few little dudes that are more like 1" but I wasn't about to start nitpicking the deal with the breeder.

Filtration is a Fluval FX6 and an AC70(intake was removed when I took the pictures above). The AC70 is temporary. I have a Fluval 306 NIB that I bought some time ago during a sale that will go to work here. I have a 250 watt heater, which is overkill. I just got an inline 200 watt yesterday in the mail. For some reason they have been on back order for a couple months everywhere I have looked. So I have to do a plumbing project, which will also include a spray bar for the FX6 and installing the 306. Tank was insta-cycled with the AC70 media that supported 20 some juvenile mbuna, a full tray of pond matrix and bio max and the outer sponges from an established FX5, and some Dr. Tim's I had in the fridge that was just past it's 'best if used by' date 

Their tankmates are Cynotilapia sp. 'Hara' and Metriaclima sp. 'Membe deep.' I posted some pictures of the Membe last night. They're pretty sweet looking so check em out! - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?nomobile=1&f=9&t=302690

I've been feeding NLS Grow and Thera-A. Most likely switch to flake down the road.

Hope that covers most of it. Someone mentioned ratios earlier.... I just hope to get the group to a point of manageable harmony


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## Eric_S (Feb 27, 2007)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Well Eric, I guess I'm just picky  . Diagonal bars, huh?
> 
> Yes it's a 75. Thanks.


Yeah, that was a poor description. Not all diagonal. Just a random bar here and there, or the same thing as what I think GTZ is referring to as split barring.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

So not much to update really.

All fish appear alive and healthy. Although it's somewhat impossible to count 30 of the same fish. Sometimes I end up at 32, others at 27, then 30 on the nose. The smaller fish have grown a bit and have more defined barring.

Made a switch to this newer food by NLS. Here's a picture...










Just realized my Emperor Pez dispenser looks like some sort of sickly drag queen. Oh well...


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## Lifetime Journeyman (Sep 26, 2013)

Good thread, good luck on breeding and nice looking tank. I've been keeping demasoni for about a year, started with seven 1" young ones in my mixed 230, none with non-typical barring. One male became dominant immediately and still remains as such, and I've had no deaths other than fry being eaten. So far, they have been quite willing to breed. There have been 5 batches of fry that I know of, two of which I isolated the mothers in a 29g to get a good survival rate. Eleven in each, both batches released the same day, and lost only one (within the first two days and I didn't find any remains) before I sold most of them at about 70 days. Of the 40 or so total fry I've seen (smaller numbers in the three batches left in the 230 and having about half eaten), I've had 6 or 7 with non-uniform bars. Of those, most often, some bars meet in a tilted V pattern where one bar is slightly diagonal, sometimes only one side and, less often, on both sides. I currently have around a dozen in the 230, with at least 3 males of good size, but no real fighting, as the dominant male, also the largest, keeps all the others in check but is not overly aggressive. I have 4 or 5 undesirables, along with a few good ones, in a 55g with some dwarf red top afras and small BN plecos. I only sell those with typical barring and am wondering what others have experienced, regarding the ratio of "undesirable" barring vs. desirable. Wondering if I have a parent or two with bad genetics or if this is typical.


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## Marconi (Oct 7, 2013)

Great thread Adam


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## MSullins (Oct 16, 2013)

ITALIAN926 said:


> Please let us know if any die off right away. For me, no other species of cichlid ever died off like they do in the beginning. Two tries, the first batch I lost like 60%, and my 2nd batch I lost like 5 out of 30 because I was ready for the "bloat" potential.


That's so weird... I have raised 18 from small juveniles to adults and never lost any... Guess I had good luck?? lol I've never had a damasoni get sick or die off..


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Wow...that tank looks incredible Adam. I love the mix of fish you have chosen and can't wait for them to grow a bit. You already have good color showing on your juvies and those demasoni babies are stunning. I'll be "beaming" into this thread as often as you post. Keep us updated and I hadn't seen that new NLS food. Gonna check that out Captain.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks and good info Journeyman.

Glad you like it Marcus! Come over and make a video for me, would ya 

Thanks for the compliments Donna. At first I missed the Star Trek puns(being a way bigger Star Wars nerd)  . Funny stuff. Anyways, welcome aboard! BTW, the new Star Trek movie was great. I saw it in IMAX 3D. Amazing.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Once again, not much to update. Made the full transition to the new food. They seem to really like it, but I never had a healthy fish snub NLS. About 10 or so of the demasoni are 2" or so now.

I scooped up a Current Sat Freshwater + LED and put it on this tank. I really like it. Some of the 'gimmicks' with the light are very cool, while others are simply unusable.

A few weeks back I added a pair of Bristlenosed plecos around 3-3.5". They were quite the curiosity, as I expected. After 24 hours they were glued to the glass behind the canister intake. So I pulled them and placed them in a 6' tank I have for my cichlids hailing from Mexico. Lots of wood for them, and they've been doing well. I really didn't want to do this as I was trying to keep it a strictly Mexico theme, but oh well...


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## Demasoni1 (Apr 9, 2014)

Sweet thread, I will most definatly be following as i am going to star a Demasoni only tank and start breeding.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> At first I missed the Star Trek puns(being a way bigger Star Wars nerd)  . Funny stuff. Anyways, welcome aboard! BTW, the new Star Trek movie was great. I saw it in IMAX 3D. Amazing.


Adam, I cannot see *Captian's Log *without thinking Star Trek...its the stuff I watched when I came home from school every day when I was a teen. Loved that show. LOL but I think I missed some of your Star Wars connections too...oh well....both were GREAT. Big sci-fi fan here at least for these types of shows.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Wow! we all have so much in common! Demasoni and Star Wars! Doesn't get any better than that. I'll be curious to see how they do on the NLS as well. I'm using Hikari vege soaked in some seachem nourish. Seems to work well. I just crush it up for the 1/2 inch fry. Demasoni remind me of a blue and black Darth Maul!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

crazycolt-
I'll see what I can do about comparing Demasoni to Darth Maul....


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I think he's more Lake Victoria rather than Lake Malawi.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Update-
I noticed a female dem holding yesterday morning. Although getting a spawn is always cool, I was hoping they would hold off until they were a bit bigger. Oh well... So at least there's one female. Knowing my luck, my ratio is 29/1.

Had to remove one of the Metriaclima sp. Membe deep males last week since aggression was ramping up with that species. The Hara are doing fine, with 2 definite males. The dems quarrel with one another, but no one hiding away yet. Still feeding the NLS Algae Max exclusively.

Some pics. Sorry, but I forgot to clean the front pane of the tank and kill the filters...

Some of the pack with a few Hara
IMG_1831 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr

Holding female
IMG_1847 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr

IMG_1826 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr

IMG_1863 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr

IMG_1865 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr

IMG_1868 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr

IMG_1921 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr

Still need to scrape away that warranty sticker... Can you say 'Lazy'?
IMG_1902 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr

IMG_1900 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr

IMG_1913 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Man, the tank is looking great. :thumb: I can't believe how dark all the demasoni are. Several of mine are much lighter. I notice that they will change darker sometimes - especially the holding females, but all of those demasoni you got are really dark :drooling: Have they always been that dark or just since the NLS?


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Really enjoying this thread, would love to have some of these guys someday once I have some experience. All I can say is: what an awesome tank.


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## kittyk (Sep 20, 2012)

:fish: :fish: Great thread !! :fish: :fish: Love all the pictures . I just got 8 dems a few days ago. Hoping to have them breed so to increase their population. Looking forward to your future posts


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## Demasoni1 (Apr 9, 2014)

Ok, so I have to ask, where did you get your rock?

BTW Your tank is awesome man!! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks for the compliments!

Crazycolt- when I got them only a few had the bold patterning. As they've grown, they're all developing the dark barring. A few of the smaller ones are still lighter in color with less defined markings. Since I've had them, I've raised them almost exclusively on NLS(Grow, Thera-A and this AlgaeMax) with a little Repashy and flake in the beginning.

Demasoni1- rock was bought at a landscape supply yard. I get almost all my rock and gravel(for my CA tank) there. It was sold as Aqua Blue boulders. I really like the look of it as well, and the only time I wish diatoms wouldn't grow on my rockwork. Here's a link to the rock. I didn't buy it from here, but the same stuff-
http://www.lurveys.com/aqua-blue-boulders


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

Really looks good! Keep the posts coming Iggy


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## eeztropheus (Jan 10, 2010)

:thumb: Awesome tank! I miss my demasoni


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Inspiring all around! My order is in, fish arrive Thursday, 1 May! (Membe, Maingano and Perlmutts)


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## Demasoni1 (Apr 9, 2014)

Good news!! Hope they all arrive in good health!!

Good luck!

Picking up some more Dems Friday, to add to the 5 I got last week. Hope to build up to 20 soon!


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## Ramseydog14 (Dec 31, 2013)

Love this thread Iggy! Here are a couple of new pics of my Demasoni royal couple..


The King (he's over 4" now..less than a year old!)


The Queen


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks again everyone. I'm glad to share the tank with others.

Fish look like nice specimens, Ramsey.

Go Blackhawks!


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## teacherdavid (May 26, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Tank shots. This light is eventually going. The beam effect it creates is just driving us nuts!


Can I ask what light this is? I'm partial to LEDs I really prefer them to typical fluorescents!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Current Satellite Freshwater+ LED


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

So not a whole lot to update as of late. After a nice growth spurt in the demasoni, they kinda slowed down. I recently increased the amount I feed, and believe I notice a difference. Only a few spawns, and nothing consistent. Have not found a carcass yet, but I haven't bothered trying to do a head count in a long time. 30 fish that look the same is tough. Removed a few male tankmates along the way, but no dems.

Made a video of the tank a few weeks back. Didn't post it here since it doesn't directly have to do with my Demasoni. I may have worked harder on editing and filming than I did on the actual tank. Anyways, here's the link to the post that includes the vid-

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?nomobile=1&f=9&t=322785


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## boomer92 (Apr 17, 2013)

Congrats on tank of the month BTW, well deserved!


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## JP_92 (Aug 2, 2013)

The next tank I make (which isn't anytime soon) will be all demasoni. Great stuff Iggy.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks boomer and JP.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

My first casualty. Found it exactly like this, on the tank trim. I have a wooden canopy and had no idea. Must have jumped out during a feeding.










Couple spawns in the last week from the Demasoni. One immediately after a WC. The fish as a whole were quite riled up. It was like a beehive in the tank.

I added some Labeotropheus Trewavasae 'Lions Cove' to this tank. 2/3 ratio. Not because I necessarily wanted to, but didn't have a spot for them at this time, unfortunately. Changing some things around and did not want to get rid of them. This tank is now grossly overstocked.

I'm terrible at estimating fish length, unless I caught it on hook and line. After measuring the Trewavasae, I'd say some of the Dems are at 3". I really didn't think they were that size yet.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

That's sad.sorry about your fishy.It's probably safe to say you losing a dem to your canopy would not be how anyone guessed one to go.sad nonetheless


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

master chi said:


> That's sad.sorry about your fishy.It's probably safe to say you losing a dem to your canopy would not be how anyone guessed one to go.sad nonetheless


Thanks for your sympathies, chi. Death by Canopy... Certainly didn't see that one coming 

First mbuna I've lost to jumping out of the tank. Had to happen at some point.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Been quite awhile since I posted on this thread. For those who are still following along, I made some needed changes...

The tank was insanely overstocked. I had been toying with the idea of getting rid of the Hara. A fellow hobbyist was interested in the group. I thought about it for over a month and finally decided to remove them. Nitrate builds up quick with this many fish in a tank. Sometimes I'd slack and go a week without a change. That pretty much guarenteed my nitrate was between 40-60 ppm. So then I'd do a 60% change, followed by another the following day. That kind of got old. Plus, the dominant Hara showed little color usually. When he would, he looked awesome. Spawning brought him to full color, but that was infrequent. So last Friday I pulled a couple rocks and removed all 7 Hara(3-4"), 2 Membe Deep(3-3.5") males and one Demasoni male(had a buyer and sold that evening). I could have easily yanked some more Dem males, but didn't feel it was necessary at this time. I added 4 hopeful Membe Deep females(still small) and 2 L. Trewavasae 'Lions Cove' females(juveniles).

Since removing the Hara, the larger Trewavasae male has colored up much nicer. Which I don't really understand, since the Hara held no real dominance in the tank. Nor did the 2 male Membe Deep. Since the change, I've had at least two Demasoni spawns, but that is not out of the ordinary. They are like rabbits. I have not stripped any females at this time. I can see 6 to 7 males that each hold very small territories. Once they get larger, I'll thin this down a bit. They are about 3" I'd say. Females smaller.

I added a Fluval 306 and an inline heater about 2 months ago, I think. Removed the AC70. Scape has not changed, other than a few smaller rocks in the foreground. Some of these smaller rocks are already buried by one of the Membe Deep males. If he didn't look so amazing, I'd sell him! I'll probably remove some sand soon.

I didn't feel like cleaning the glass of water spots, so no full tank pics. But I did snap this male. Notice the slight dorsal fin tear. This is not typical but certainly not uncommon in this tank.

IMG_4316 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr

And a video I made back in September of this tank. Watching this vid just now, I can see the growth that has taken place. Especially the Membe Deeps...





Overall I'm happy with the change. One day I'll try the Hara again, and under different circumstances. I wasn't thrilled with their quality anyways.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)




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## PhinFan1981 (Nov 15, 2014)

Great videos.Great Fish.Great tank. Well done.You must enjoy staring at that crew!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thank ya much Phin. I do enjoy the tank. I'll enjoy it a little more once the Membe Deep spawn! The demasoni on the other hand are very prolific. I currently have 9 or 10 holding females....


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## Dezimir (Nov 2, 2014)

If you don't mind me asking, I have 2x current freshwater led + and I'm interested what settings you chose for this tank? I'm trying to make the blues pop on my clown afra/yellow tail/msobo.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Of course I don't mind. Tough to answer. It's a custom setting I just kind of stumbled onto. But just start at the 'blue' default setting and start raising and dropping the 4 colors. Certain settings can really improve the look of your tank with adding depth and shadow. The color of the fish will show of course depending on mood, position/heirarchy in the tank and quality. I think you'll find the right setting for you. Just keep playing around with the remote. I like to drop the 'black' down and then work from there.


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