# Why did my yellow lab die?



## SlowGT (Sep 18, 2007)

I had three adult male yellow labs in my 46 gallon bow, along with about 8 yellow lab and 6 demasoni juveniles. The demasoni's started disappearing and eventually all had been killed. $50 in the toilet. My guess is the 3 adults did not like them. I eventually had to remove 1 of the adult males because he was being tormented by the other two. I put him in my 10 gallon and he never started to look any better, and now the dominant male in the 46 gallon is chasing the other.

Here are some pics of what he looked like.

















He turned over on his back and about 10 minutes after I took the pictures of him.
Did he die because of the stress alone? That's all I can think of. Water parameters are golden.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

It was probably internal injuries that did him in. Had he been eating and swimming normally up until the time you removed him from the main tank?

Sounds like you need to make some stocking changes in the 46 gallon. Some mbuna will do all right in a tank that small but you need to be especially careful in how you stock it, not just with choosing compatible breeds but also in the male/female ratio of the individual breeds. Even with the best of planning you can get one or two overly aggresive fish and suddenly there's no place to run for the other fish. Doesn't matter if you have plenty of hiding places. In tanks with small footprints the dominant fish will want to lay claim to the entire tank.

Were there any symptoms leading up to the death/disapearances of the other fish? Loss of appetite? Fuzzy white or gray growth on their bodies? What are the actual water parameters of the tank?

Sorry for the loss of your fish.

Robin


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## t.karkoulis (Aug 21, 2008)

robin, heres the deal though. I totally agree with you, you are 100% right. Thing is though, how do you know the male/female ratio when you stock the tank, since you cant tell which one is male and which one female?

Pet stores dont know either, because they look exactly the same, those malawis. Is there a way to know? I guess you can vent the fish at the pet store, but most wont allow it.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

How large were the demasoni?

My guess is that one of two things happened...

Either the demasoni killed each other off (they should never be kept in groups smaller than 10-12 due to excessive conspecific aggression) OR the adult Yellow lab ate the demasoni, and died of intestinal problems because of it. Or, maybe both things happened...Maybe the demasoni killed each other and then the Yellow lab ate them...

Your male/female ratio with Yellow labs in a tank that size shouldn't matter too much. You DO have too many Yellow labs to keep in that size tank long term with a proper sized group of demasoni, though.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> Thing is though, how do you know the male/female ratio when you stock the tank, since you cant tell which one is male and which one female?


You can't--especially with yellow labs unless you vent them.

With labs what most people do is get a group of juveniles--more than you probably plan to keep--and then when they start to show aggression and an interest in spawning find new homes for the extra males/females. I would say in a tank that size you'd want to go with one male and 3-4 females. A couple of mixes you don't want with the labs is to have just one female and 3-4 males: all the males will chase the female--possibly to death. THe other scenario you don't want is to have just two males and 1-2 females. One male will be dominant and may end up targeting the other male. 
When you have one male and 3-4 females then the male's aggression/desire to spawn is spread out amongst numerous fish so one fish doesn't get the brunt of it all.

Labs are considered less aggressive then other mbuna but they can still be a problem and even if you observe all the guidelines of proper stocking and tank size you can still end up with an individual fish that's overly aggressive. 
It's tricky stocking a mbuna tank and despite your best efforts to set up a compatible home for them you always have to be ready to make a change when fish don't get along. I think its one of the least favorite aspects of this hobby: removing a fish that no longer fits in. 

But what about my question about any symptoms leading up to the deaths of the dems? Just want to be sure there's not something else going on here.

Robin


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