# Tropheus deaths



## Mpimbwe Pete (Jan 11, 2005)

I have a 6 x2x2 tank with 20 Duboisi, a dozen other Tangs ( Comps Leulupi Calvus etc ) and 10 Electric yellows .They were healthy and even breeding in the tank. No problems for past 5 years. Last June got 20 long awaited Kasanga Red rainbow juveniles. They were all doing well for 3 months , and recently saw the adult Dubs spawn and a few babies survived in the tank. I do weekly 50 % water changes - running a fluval 5X5 ,mini-reef and a power filter to create a nice current.

Used to feed them a couple of cubes of homemade shrimp mix in morning -Sera veg flakes or NLS pellets in the afternoon and night. Told to reduce food by experienced fish breeder. Over the last fortnight I have seen a dead Rainbow almost every day - toll now 11 . Done water changes every 3 days since I was told my nitrates are VERY high.LFS told me all the other parameters are good. Ph 8.2. Didn't think I would ever have a problem with nitrates as I am scrupulous with water changes. Added Purigen to the mini reef today and cleaned canister filter (used aquarium water to rinse ). Losing my will to fight this. All the fish in the tank are really healthy, no white faeces, (bloat ??) except for the listless one (RR) who will be dead the next day. Please tell me what can I do ? Cut back severely with the food but the rest of the fish LOOK so hungry I Extremely upset with this daily disaster. Is the group of Mbuna (Electric yellows) the problem?


----------



## Jason S (Feb 7, 2003)

Think the larger juveniles typically get stressed more easily than the full adults. Have a group around 20 adult duboisi in an 80 gallon. Added 9 juveniles around 2" in size and they did fine at first but lost 6 of them over the last 3 months. Water changes were weekly over the time period but not always 50%. Did lose any of the adults; attribute the losses to more stress on the juveniles in company of the adult group/greater sensitivity to water quality of the juveniles than the adults. The final 3 are doing fine. Could always tell the ones that were going to go; just stop eating and then start to sulk away from the others; then gone. Once they stop eating it seems it's already too late to save them.


----------



## Mpimbwe Pete (Jan 11, 2005)

Think you are right Jason, that is exactly what I noticed. Breakthrough today- no listless Tropheus juveniles lying on the gravel, all seem boisterously healthy. Hope I have turned a corner. Removed a couple of pieces of driftwood with Anubias - maybe the driftwood added to the high nitrate problem. Is that a possibility? Running out of ideas here.


----------



## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

You need to start treating with metro right away. Treat three times daily for a week and keep the lights off.


----------



## Jason S (Feb 7, 2003)

Not sure I would medicate in this situation. First, the fish were fine for a long period of time; Second, the losses were single fish periodically going down rather than an entire group of fish; Third, by the time the symptoms become obvious I have not found a medication that can bring them around; Finally, treating such a large volume would be $$ and there is no indication the entire group of fish have anything wrong with them. I would focus on the water quality and stress on the juvenile fish. It sounds like there is lots of fish in their, even for a 180 gallon (originally 40 Tropheus, 10 yellows, and a mix of others) which may be contributing to the stress on the growout Tropheus (versus the others being full adults with established territories). I wouldn't say the yellows themselves are the problem, rather the entire number of adult fish. At this point, I'd keep the feeding moderate (mine ALWAYS look hungry despite heavy feedings of green 'Tropheus' flake twice daily) and large weekly water changes (Tropheus seem to tolerate very large frequent water change upwards of 75% volume with no trouble, though some of the other species may not like that).


----------



## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Jason S said:


> Not sure I would medicate in this situation. First, the fish were fine for a long period of time; Second, the losses were single fish periodically going down rather than an entire group of fish; Third, by the time the symptoms become obvious I have not found a medication that can bring them around; Finally, treating such a large volume would be $$ and there is no indication the entire group of fish have anything wrong with them. I would focus on the water quality and stress on the juvenile fish. It sounds like there is lots of fish in their, even for a 180 gallon (originally 40 Tropheus, 10 yellows, and a mix of others) which may be contributing to the stress on the growout Tropheus (versus the others being full adults with established territories). I wouldn't say the yellows themselves are the problem, rather the entire number of adult fish. At this point, I'd keep the feeding moderate (mine ALWAYS look hungry despite heavy feedings of green 'Tropheus' flake twice daily) and large weekly water changes (Tropheus seem to tolerate very large frequent water change upwards of 75% volume with no trouble, though some of the other species may not like that).


His Trophs have bloat, if he doesn't start treatment right away he could very well loose all of them. If he would have started after noticing the first signs he may have been able to save them all.


----------



## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

P.m sent to the O.P


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Jason S said:


> Second, the losses were single fish periodically going down rather than an entire group of fish; Third, by the time the symptoms become obvious I have not found a medication that can bring them around; Finally, treating such a large volume would be $$ and there is no indication the entire group of fish have anything wrong with them.


It's typical of bloat IME to take one fish every couple of weeks rather than an entire group. I've had nearly 100% success with metronidazole. Treating the entire tank prevents further deaths.

I agree if there are no symptoms you should not treat for bloat. Fish not eating and clear, thready feces are good indicators. Tropheus are VERY susceptible.


----------



## Mpimbwe Pete (Jan 11, 2005)

NO evidence of bloat, stringy feces etc. Decided to move whole colony of Duboisi- consensus here (Australian forums and 2 LFS's ) is that the juveniles are being stressed either directly or indirectly by the confident and boisterous colony of adult Duboisi. Will let you know how the surviving Kasangas are - plan to replace the missing dozen when situation stabilizes. "Bloat" seems a misnomer as there is no swollen bodies. Thanks to all the kind people who have responded, it certainly bucked me up.


----------



## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Bloat is a general catch all term for the illness, bloating/swelling does not have to be present in the deaths and
stress is usualy the trigger for the onset of "bloat". I agree 100% that the cause is of the illness has been brought on by stress.
Hopefully you get it sorted out.


----------



## Mpimbwe Pete (Jan 11, 2005)

Thankfully seem to be over the worst of it. Drastic reduction in tankmates seems to have been the answer. TOLD by experienced breeders to stick to one species tank but very limited in tank space. made some hard decisions and hopefully never have to go through the daily tropheus death toll again - after 3 days of no food ,no lights, metro dose the survivors looking perky . 
By the way , I have asked this before but every single post on this forum is dated 11 1 2005. Is it my browser ? Or was that Groundhog Day for cichlid lovers ?


----------



## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Mpimbwe Pete said:


> By the way , I have asked this before but every single post on this forum is dated 11 1 2005. Is it my browser ? Or was that Groundhog Day for cichlid lovers ?


Sounds like a browser issue. You're looking at the dates above the posts?


----------

