# Real Fish Skull Decoration



## OneFishTwoFish

My sister found a fish skull on a beach in Florida several years ago. I was at her house yesterday and realized what a cool aquarium decoration it would make. What do you think? Anybody got any idea what kind of fish it's from? It's around 8 inches long.



















-Mike


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## rockincichlid

Could you get a better pic of it? To me it looks like a odd shell all kinds of things wash up here so who knows.


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## OneFishTwoFish

I'll work on a better pic. It's hard to pick up the details because it's all white. It's definitely a skull because on the back of it you can see where the backbone is no longer attached. You can also see where the two nostril holes lead from the front to the inside. It's really fun to look at but now it's submerged.

-Mike


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## Toby_H

I have absolutely no clue what it could be the skull of. I wouldn't assume it's a fish just because it washed to shore from the ocean though, although I'm also not saying it isn't a fish......

Bone will have a buffering capacity similar to coral although I have no clue to what degree it will buffer your water. i would assume that would very from skull to skull, bone to bone. Just monitor your water hardness and PH for the first couple weeks you have it in the tank. :thumb:


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## eL Chupy

:-? I think we need to call Scully and Mulder and have the X-files team take a look at this one.


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## cugar

It looks more like a birds scull to me :-?


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## Sierra255

cugar said:


> It looks more like a birds scull to me :-?


That's what I was thinking. The part that's in the sand looks like a beak to me. To be more specific, it looks like the skull from a raptor of some sort. That hooked bill sure looks like something you see on hawks, eagles and falcons.


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## cugar

Sierra255 said:


> cugar said:
> 
> 
> 
> It looks more like a birds scull to me :-?
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I was thinking. The part that's in the sand looks like a beak to me. To be more specific, it looks like the skull from a raptor of some sort. That hooked bill sure looks like something you see on hawks, eagles and falcons.
Click to expand...

Thats what I was thinking, Eagle, Hawk, Falcon.


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## mikeski

Looks like a Nutria Rat to me!!!


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## eL Chupy

mikeski said:


> Looks like a Nutria Rat to me!!!


http://www.skullsunlimited.com/Nutria_Skull.html ...... nope

and a bird skull? he said it's about 8 inches... that would be a real big bird... a bald eagle skull tops out around 5 inches. and that's a big bird


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## iceblue

It looks like a small horse skull missing the outer cranial bone. :-?


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## OneFishTwoFish

After reading all of these replies I'm really curious. I've done some searching on the 'net for skull identification and it's unlike anything I can find. I might get curious enough to remove it from my talk and take it down to a museum to see if they might know.

-Mike


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## eL Chupy

OneFishTwoFish said:


> I might get curious enough to remove it from my talk and take it down to a museum to see if they might know.
> 
> -Mike


Excelent idea..... :thumb: I'd be curious to know. Let us know what they say if (when  ) you take it in


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## rockincichlid

Me to! I would agree on the bird skull but that thing is huge... hmmmm


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## JeffreyL

Very curious!!!! That just looks somehow weird. Does it seem intact, except for the jaw?? It appears the eye socket extends to the interior and look how low the eye is in relation to the jaw. Really strange.

Course my vertebrate anatomy was a loooong time ago, it might be identified instantly by any knowledgable amatuer. lol


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## OneFishTwoFish

I keep joking with my son Connor (9 years old) that maybe its... ALIEN!

-Mike


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## rockincichlid

OK i change my vote alien anyone else? :lol:


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## eL Chupy

rockincichlid said:


> OK i change my vote alien anyone else? :lol:





eL Chupy said:


> :-? I think we need to call Scully and Mulder and have the X-files team take a look at this one.


maybe I'm the only closet Sci-Fi Channel geek in here :?: :lol: ... or... this is down close to the Chupacabra Territory... maybe we have one of those :lol:


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## iceblue

eL Chupy said:


> maybe I'm the only closet Sci-Fi Channel geek in here :?: :lol: ... or... this is down close to the Chupacabra Territory... maybe we have one of those :lol:


Naa.. goat suckers are much smaller. :lol:


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## Drowned

Looks more like a little dinosaur


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## jfly

big bird? :lol:


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## cichlidfeesh

only thing i can think of would be a spanish mackerel or king mackerel.... where in florida was it?


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## RyanR

Well, I know what it's _not_. It's not anything that's not a fish. :lol:

Definitely a fish braincase.... we're missing all of the dermal, plate-like bones. Looks pretty neat. 

-Ryan


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## jfly

i googled and found it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! chupacabra


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## Malawidolphin

> i googled and found it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! chupacabra


  

do you have a picture of a front, straight on view? also underneath?


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## jfly

:lol:


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## fishEH

Barracuda? Looks similar to this:








Found here: http://picasaweb.google.com/mhalvers3/MexicoAndBelize2007#5117528137522614866


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## mok3t

Snapping turtle i say!


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## JWerner2

A type of eel.

To be honest at first glance it looks like a skull but after some thinking I cant see it.

better photos please.


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## fishEH

Def not a turtle skull, maybe an eel. Seriuosly though I think its the upper part of a Barracuda skull, minus the upper and lower jaws bones.


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## JWerner2

I dont even think it could honestly be a Eel either and it looks nothing like that barracuda skull, it has a crest/veil to it.

More pics!

Is there even a brain cavity?


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## danielratti

Its a Lake Sturgeon skull from the looks of things.


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## JWerner2

If the skull in that pic is sitting the proper way as it would intact its not a Sturgeon either. The mouth of a Sturgeon bends up not down.


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## danielratti

If you look the head is clearly upside down and it is bending up. Thats the only fish i have seen with a skull like that.


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## JWerner2

Clearly it is not. What is the triangular shape crest? That definitely wouldn't be found at the neck

Obviously you haven't seen many Surgeon fish skulls since this is what they look like.


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## jfly

wow this conversation has gotten all pissy.. does it matter what the skull is ?? point is noone here apparently knows , so im going with nessie geez lighten up


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## jstntlvr

send some pictures to these guys and see if they know

http://fishskulls.com/home.htm
http://www.artbyevolution.com/home.htm


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## danielratti

I know thats why i stopped posting... I will not touch a sturgeon since dead or alive since I do not feel like dealing with DNR. :lol:


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## JWerner2

jfly said:


> wow this conversation has gotten all pissy.. does it matter what the skull is ?? point is noone here apparently knows , so im going with nessie geez lighten up


Hey man, thats not how Im trying to come off. 8) Im just saying they look nothing alike and there is no way it is clearly upside down. Those holes appear like eye sockets with a bridge that flows down to the snout. There is no way that would be found at the bottom of a jaw or a skull without the lower jaw but just upside down.

Like I said, until I hear back that it has a cavity that could encase a brain Im not even sure its a skull.

I found lots of pics with a similar what (would be) jaw arrangement but nothing with that sharp blade like crest. Some, even smaller species of whale calf's.


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## jfly

whew!! you guys are draining my chi :lol: im just raggin you guys, i understand how nit pickey things get in these rooms at times. all good ladies and gents.. im still leaning towards chupacabre


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## ladyluck777

*jfly*
=D> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: =D>


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## mikesl

interesting mystery.

Some of the features that make the original look like a skull remind me of rodents...

this skull isn;t actually that big...

not a great fit, but hings like cabybara, muskrat, beaver - this coul dbe the top skull (missing lower jaw) with some parts missing...

or, do we know of a fish with buck teeth?


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## CutieSusieQ

Ok Soooo???

What is the final outcome on the mystery skull? I was reading over this thread and now I'm curious what it is too! Ever take it to the museum?


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## MonteSS

I am guessing Turtle. They have a "beak".

EDIT. Nope...not sea turtle
http://www.skullsunlimited.com/green-se ... skull.html

....Bill


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## CutieSusieQ

Interesting mystery!


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## Inspiire

Locknest monster.


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## Comic Sans

I believe I have solved this mystery! Was doing an image search at work for dolphin skulls, and came across a page with this image, and explanation. Funnily enough months later I immediately thought of this thread.










Caption: Interior of crucifix fish skull
The hard head catfish is also known as the crucifix fish because of this design on the inside of the top of its skull. The skulls are often found washed up on the shoreline

Source: http://www.nps.gov/archive/pais/pphtml/ ... llery.html (towards the bottom of the page)


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## rarefaction

I remember when I lived in FL there were african cranes that got caught in the jet stream and couldn't get home. looked at any african raptors?


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## jfly

ahhh!!!!!!!!! its the never ending post.. like i said before .. its a chupacabra


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## rarefaction

so jfly, what you're saying is the chupacabra has (or had) a crested avian-esque skull. And can't (or couldn't) swim very well? Very astute observation and constructive research prevails again. Glad this mystery is solved. whew... =D>


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## Comic Sans

Incidentally the search for dolphin skulls was unrelated, as the skull is clearly not mammalian.


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## Cento

You're all wrong.... It is the undeveloped fetus of a chupacabra and bigfoot offspring that lived of the coast of Newfoundland in the late Jurassic 5.......


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## danielratti

Its the cat fish skull if you search the cat fish it will pull up more pics of the skull.


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## fishEH

In case anyone would like to see the Crucifix(Sailcat) fish when it isn't just a skull.
http://www.getbentflorida.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/268


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## jeanleryenierga

I can imagine of this wonderful aquarium decorations. Crucifixes really suit the entire design of it that brings an allotted mystery with those decorations. I wonder if I could be able to have the same crucifix fish made with vigorous materials.


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## fordgtmustang

I would say pelican they have a crest on there head used to raise there feathers for mating and to show dominance long bill like one


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## drthsideous

It's not a fish skull. That crest in the back of the skull is a muscle attachment site for the jaw muscles. General rule of thumb is the bigger the crest the bigger the bite pressure. And that's a big crest. I would think tend to lean toward some kind of turtle or rodent. Not a bird though.
Jeff


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## Lagomort

drthsideous said:


> It's not a fish skull. That crest in the back of the skull is a muscle attachment site for the jaw muscles. General rule of thumb is the bigger the crest the bigger the bite pressure. And that's a big crest. I would think tend to lean toward some kind of turtle or rodent. Not a bird though.
> Jeff


Yes, it is a fish skull missing most of the dermal elements and branchial skeleton (including the branchiostegals). It is upside down and is basically the osteocranium of a ray-finned fish. The left upper side where you think a "crest" is, is actually the basal portion of the occipital region, and the front of the skull is on the right lower side (ethmoid). Basically this is an actinopterygian braincase.

This is not a guess. I am trained in comparative vertebrate anatomy, and have numerous examples sitting in my house.


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## 60gallon

^ oh...glad you figured it out then!

opcorn:


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## fmueller

Lagomort said:


> Yes, it is a fish skull missing most of the dermal elements and branchial skeleton (including the branchiostegals). It is upside down and is basically the osteocranium of a ray-finned fish. The left upper side where you think a "crest" is, is actually the basal portion of the occipital region, and the front of the skull is on the right lower side (ethmoid). Basically this is an actinopterygian braincase. This is not a guess. I am trained in comparative vertebrate anatomy, and have numerous examples sitting in my house.


Thanks for solving this mystery for us! I only just read this thread and must say I got very curious what skull it might be. It did occur to me that it might be upside-down, but that still gave no help in IDing it. Whatever that fish was, judging from the empty spaces in the lower jaw, I'd say that thing had some mighty big teeth!

Also, just out of curiosity, what are the empty spaces that look sort of like eye holes? Since this is the lower jaw I take it that's not what they are, or am I still not looking at it the right way?


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## shellies215

To me it looks like a catfish skull


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## RRasco

Wow. What an interesting thread. Only took 5 months for someone to come along that new what they were talking about. Glad there was an ending by the time I saw this thread.

Hard head catfish, worst fish ever!


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## Number6

*RRasco*
we knew it was a fish skull in post #1, and you're excited to hear on page 4 that it's an unknown fish skull? :lol:

My guess is it's some predatory fish. Probably something like a snapper. If you check out the skulls of predatory fish you should be able to spot a similarity or two:
e.g. 
http://www.hogfishworld.com/news/?p=14

__
https://flic.kr/p/2491734277

I'm not sure why it is thought to be upside down... I don't think it is. It might be though as I'm NOT the expert. Fmueller, it's not the lower jaw. Lagomort still thinks it's the top portion of the skull (occipital region, etc. )


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## fmueller

OK, the day 'comparative vertebrate anatomy' was covered in school I must have had a hangover :fish:


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## Lagomort

Number6 said:


> *RRasco*
> I'm not sure why it is thought to be upside down... I don't think it is. It might be though as I'm NOT the expert. Fmueller, it's not the lower jaw. Lagomort still thinks it's the top portion of the skull (occipital region, etc. )


The occipital portion of a typical tetrapod skull indicates the rear of the skull, portions of which can be seen from above and below in many cases depending on the species we are exhibiting. In this care we are dealing with seeing the region from a ventral position...

Yes, it is the bottom of the braincase (and yes, the lower jaw is not present). There is NO doubt of this. The problem comes from people thinking fish skulls are similar to mammalian skulls. Mammalian skulls are generally a fused series of elements from several different developmental tissue sources. Neural crest, and standard type mesenchymal tissues that are also present in us, but fuse in mammals into a sorta "Box." Fish keeps the basic elements separate for the most part. The Gill covers (Operculum series) as well as the branchiostegals are lost in mammals completely, but the branchial (gill) elements do develop, as well as an ethmoidal region, sphenoidal region, otic and occipital region. These elements in mammals fuse to the more superficial dermal elements we generally call, "The frontals, squamosal (The squamosal in humans is fused to the mastiod and is renamed the "Temporal"), partials, the maxilla and premaxilla" and so on. These dermal elements are far more numerous in fish in general, and are only loosely connected to the brain-case that is made up of the much more fused ethmoidal-sphenoidal-otic-occipital regions mentioned above. During decay, in boney fish, the outer dermal elements discussed above fall away along with the gill elements, the gill covers, and elements of the throat referred to as branchiostegals above (Gular elements).

This all leaves us with something that cannot be seen in the living fish without an x-ray machine, and hence why it is odd to look at for most people. Remember, even the upper jaw is basically gone as well here, as the upper jaw elements are made up of those loosely held dermal elements (Premaxilla, maxilla etc...). This does not mean there are no teeth on the braincase, as often times some dermal elements fuse onto the braincase that do NOT fall off like we see with the numerous dermal elements I mentioned above. For example, teeth are often found associated with the dermal elements known as the "Parasphenoid" as well as parts of dermal elements that might be fused to the "ethmoidal" region. These are basically palatal teeth common in many fish and many extinct early tetrapods (from basal tetrapods to amnoites).

If a few people want me to post a diagram or two to help clarify this, I'll do that...


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## Number6

I've disected many a fish so what you are saying all makes sense, except for the part about it being upside down... 
Comparing it to say this photo...

__
https://flic.kr/p/2491734277

To my untrained eye, I can match up many of the bones to the upper rear portion of the fish skull, but that puts this skull in post one as right side up. 
I'm assuming that I'm wrong... but just not seeing it.

If you want to diagram it, cool... I think most of us are more interested in your best guess as to the type of fish. :thumb:


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## adam0444

I am here to finally settle this. When I was taken by aliens in 2000 I was able to put up a fight with leader the ship. I had a gun in my pocket and got 2 good shots to his head and he lied there motionless. They threw me off the ship from 1200 feet with their leader. I has the same skull as in the picture but my dog ate it so I can't post a picture of it


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## Lagomort

There is obvious confusion here. I realized I am referring to the skull on page 4 at the top, while others are referring to the original pics. They are both actinoptyerygian braincase as stated, but the orientation of the two braincases are, of course, not the same. The one on page 4 is upside, but the original posts were pics of the braincase from a more lateral position..

Does this clear things up?


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## Number6

*Lagomort*
thanks, yes... page 4 pics are upside down. 
:thumb:


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