# deiffernces between Black pectoral "Ink Fin" and &



## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Ok, aside from the obvious solid black pectoral fin we just talked about in Razzos post "Alto factory", I have noticed a couple different things which I would like to run across other "ink fin " owners. I'm talking the black pec type like these

















I have noticed they seem lower bodied with larger tails and larger paddle like black pectorals for a start. ANyone else agree, I only have a trio of specimens to reference here so any input would be interesting to me.


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## kolopedo (Feb 23, 2003)

From what I understand, "Ink Fin" is a trade name ... It is still Altolamprologus calvus black.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

I wish all of the calvus coming in would have a collection point like most other species coming from Tanganyika,b/c not all Black calvus are the same.A Zambian black looks more gray to me and not even close to a Black Pectoral aka Inkfin.Some say all Congo calvus is the same and I do not think that is true , that is like saying all Tropheus from Zambia are the same.

*BioG wrote*



> I have noticed they seem lower bodied with larger tails and larger paddle like black pectorals for a start. ANyone else agree, I only have a trio of specimens to reference here so any input would be interesting to me.


I agree that the black pectorals seem to have longer/larger pectorals and caudal fins.The pectorals look even larger b/c they stand out from being solid black.I have been looking for wild black pectorals for some time know with no luck.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

I am not the expert. Here is a true Inkin (not mine btw) or so I am told:


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Razzo said:


> I am not the expert. Here is a true Inkin (not mine btw) or so I am told:


Can see through the pectorals... I wouldn't categorize that as an inkfin.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

If you google pics of Inkfins,only a few look like True Black Pectoral calvus to me.One big importer in the US that probably started the name Inkfin,states that there are 2 locations of "So-called" Inkfins.One in Southern Congo and one in Nkamba,Zambia,which does make since b/c calvus there are yellow?Even their pic does not look like a black pectoral calvus.I have heard that the term inkfin comes from the purple hue on the head and not the pec fins.Is this true?


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Good thread you guys. Maybe by the time it has been worked over I'll know what an Inkfin is 

So, is a "True Black Pectoral calvus" the same thing as an Inkfin? When people mention "Black Pectoral calvus" is that synomus with Inkfin?

My two male calvus (which I shall call "black congo white pearl" for now), their pec fins are extremly black (almost like a thick pasty/clumpy black). When they turn towards me, face forward, you can really tell how dark they are.

I had also heard that the very dark face and the "hard to see" verticle baring on the head are also signs of an Inkfin.

In any event, thank you for contributing to this post. I am very intersted in it.

Russ


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I have no idea what the truth is here. It is entirely possible, that in the wild population you have variation in the colour of the pectoral fins. Then again, they could be completely uniform.

The shipments I have seen, and this is a tank full of 60 specimens, they all had uniform completely dark pectorals.

Inkfin and Black pectoral are trade marketing names. As far as I'm concerned, (opinion) either the pectoral fin is black, and you can see through it, or it isn't. The fish with the black pectoral is a black pectoral/ink fin. The fish without it, is a Black calvus.

Perhaps simplistic, perhaps incorrect... but until someone who has been diving where these are caught straightens us out, we can only guess.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

Here is a pic of a "Inkfin" calvus from a importer which does not look black pectoral type to me www.oldworldexoticfish.com/arrivals.html Also there is a calvus from Kapampa that is called inkfin that does not have black pectorals as well.Seems like they coined Inkfin for whatever calvus that was darker than the Zambian types coming in at the time.Now we have a large group of [/b] calvus being called Inkfins.

*Fogelhund wrote




Perhaps simplistic, perhaps incorrect... but until someone who has been diving where these are caught straightens us out, we can only guess.

Click to expand...

I agree fully and until the calvus come in with a collection point there will always be confusion.There is much variation in the Zambian calvus from White,Yellow,and black and I sure there is variation in Congo types considering how much distance is from Moliro to Kapampa.*


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

mislabeling aside, I think most of us would agree there seems to be a clear "Black Pectoral" variant of Calvus?

I think od A. Calvus Black Zambian as more grey, much more blue in mouth and fins when spawning, less black, more defined bars, more standard Calvus body shape. 
A nice Zambian WC:








The blue can obviously be seen but here's more:









A. Calvus "Black Pectoral" (I'll not call it an ink fin anymore since it's way too subjective, trade name or not) I see as WAY darker, solid black pectoral fins, less blue Than Zambians, other congos or whites, very little bar definition (too dark), longer, lower bodied, larger caudal and pectoral fins in relationship to size of body, and, every one I have seen, seems to have a very slightly glazed eye which resembles the hue of a cataract.







I actually had to lighten this pic because he was too dark!

A. Calvus White sports the standard Calvus shape, can be very dark, can be milk white:








all of these are wild white chaitika. They have decent bar definition, white lining on edge of dorsal (A good tip on discerning them from blacks if mixed with juveniles.)

However... I have been breeding and enjoying all known variants of Calvus for many years and have seen white calvus fry develop into very dark, darker than zambian blacks, "White" Calvus. for example this pic is of a WC Male White kept over Khaki sand and white holey rock:









I also believe that, If I had the time, I could line breed a White Calvus from a Zambian or Congo in 10 generations or less (That is to say a fish which resembles a true White in almost every way). This due to the fact that I have bred these and seen different hues born of the same batch and believe it would be easy (It wouldn't be easy to raise them because it takes sooo long) to isolate light or dark color traits.

What I propose here is that the differences between White Chaitika, Black Zambian, Congo Black and Yellow Nkamba Bay ( I have yellows but don't have pics, I don't find them as attractive as the others) seem superficial and should be, of course just my opinion, classified as they are... They are "Variants" of the same species.

While "Black Pectoral" Calvus, look to be just that, I would be interested in an ichthyological second look into wether this is a different species within the genus. It's body shape and fin size resembles Altolamprologus Fasciatus almost as much as it resembles Calvus in coloring. It is somewhere inbetween, no doubt but I just think a second look would be interesting.

A. fasciatus for reference (Not mine, I wish!)


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

I wish I could find a pic where "Fasciatus" has its fins erect, then you could see it a lot more. The similarities I mean.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

Great pics BioG!!!!! The male Zanbian is sweet looking.I have been looking for fasciatus too which have been hard to find lately.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

I have a group of wild calvus from Livua ,Congo and they have much variation.Some look somewhat like a black pectoral but you can see through the fins and others are lighter.Could it be that both varieties naturally occurs here or collected at different depths? Here are some pics to check out.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

Here is another pic of the darkest male that shows how you can see through the pectoral fin.He could darken up some more b/c I just gotten them a little over 2 weeks ago.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

The most interesting thing about your pic of "the darkest male", I think, is that if you examine the size of his pectoral fin it actually looks over sized. Much like the actual "Black pectoral" calvus which I have heard are collected in northern congo (Which would make sense since wc ones are rare, however there is no way to actually know where they come from.)

The depth theory is interesting. I would like to see coastline from different sections of the congo so we could see if the substrate color is much different from location to location.

I suspect other variants were produced via natural selection based upon the color of their encironment. ie Cape chaitika has quite a bit of white calcified rock and, therefore, lighter colored sand etc. thus the lighter colred fry tend to survive vs. the darker. We then end up with a white variant but a fish that is , basically, the exact same as a black variant.

cool that you have that many livua, you don't see them very often. They seem to be more uniformly black, lacking the greenish head most of the time. The ones I have look like yours. thanks for the compliments. Calvus are the best!

thank you for the compliments. To be fair to generality, my male zambian is the bluest alto I have ever seen. Weird thing with him is that he is 8 years old at least and only 3.5 inches.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

so cool to see the different locations in one post. This thread may end up helping with identity of some.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

Here is a link to the German Airfish site that says calvus black pearl comes from Lunangwa,Congo but of course no location given for the elusive Black Pectoral http://www.airfish-cichlids.com/html/artenliste.html


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

cool site, didn't even know that existed!


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## jzdanows (Jun 20, 2010)

my ink fins are clearly different, their body is like normal black calvus, but about mid-way toward their caudal fin, they have spots and get darker like they were dipped in ink and spotted.


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## jzdanows (Jun 20, 2010)

*dmiller328*
fantastic pics! my calvus is similarly colored. I bought as ink fin so I hope that it is. my supposed female is really light in color.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

Thanks jzdanows

In my group of Livua calvus the females are usually lighter than the males but there are some that are quite dark.I guess it is natural color variation within the group.


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## jhayes6405 (May 1, 2009)

So which variant would this guy be? All pics are the same fish.
































Thanks for looking.


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## larry.beck (Jul 31, 2009)

jhayes6405 said:


> So which variant would this guy be?


I can't say, other than to say that I hope he's the start of my new Tang tank. :lol: Beautiful calvus!


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Some people believe there are four types of calvus; Yellow, White, Black, Black Pectoral.

If you subscribe to this, the above calvus are black.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Supposedly there are 5 types of Calvus Yellow, White, Black, Black Pectoral and "Zebra".

I think this is very debatable since the new so called "Zebra Calvus" looks a lot like "Livua" Black Calvus. The other four I can discernably see.

I would propose that there are 5 types but the Livua "Zebra" is not one of them.
IMO, there is Yellow, White, Black Zambian (because, to me they always look very different form congo blacks), Congo Black and Black Pectoral (Also from somewhere in the DRC)

I belive the one in "Jhayes" pics is a Congo Black Calvus. He lacks the greys and extra blue streaks in the finnage although he has it in the lips as they all do. His Pectoral is transparent so he is not a "Black Pectoral". (If the actual, provable location of the Black Pec Calvus isn't revealed soon I'm going to start thinking they were line bred that way in Europe. They're still gorgeous but, man, that would screw up my obsessive head so bad I would have to get rid of them because they would then be "fake" to me! :lol: I'm sick!)

I suspect that they actually all have some blue tendencies but that Zambians "grey" appearance allows them to contrast it more making it more apparent. The Congos and pectorals drown out most of their blues with black and the whites do the same with white, although they have more than the congos and pectorals. The yellows seem to posess the least amount of blues although their lips show an equal share to the others.

The "Livua" location (I'm not sure I would call it a variant) seems to resemble a regular Zambian black with smaller white scales, tighter stripes, and less overall blues. But I haven't seen enough of them to say they all look that way.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

BioG said:


> ...(If the actual, provable location of the Black Pec Calvus isn't revealed soon I'm going to start thinking they were line bred that way in Europe...


The original Inkfin were found and physically collected by Thorsten Rueters and his own dive teams. Many believe when TR sold out to the Bucklands that he did not reveal the collection point of the Inkfin and that we have not had "true" Inkfins collected for years. That's the hub-a-bub anyways.

Here's my black congo white pearl. Got the black pectoral but probably wouldn't see those lighter vertical stripes that begin in the pectorial area if it was an Inkfin. Inks are gonna be darker and the light stripes hardly visable at all.


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## jhayes6405 (May 1, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. Razzo, I am thinking mine is a Black Congo, it looks alot like the ones you just posted.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

jhayes6405 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Razzo, I am thinking mine is a Black Congo, it looks alot like the ones you just posted.


Your calvus are beauts! Loaded with pearls - gotta love it.

btw: your first name wouldn't happen to be Jed, would it?


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## jhayes6405 (May 1, 2009)

Yeah he is the favorite fish at the moment. I think he is about to kill my WC white Calvus though. He chases the white one around all the time, and the white one just hangs out at the top corner of the tank by the filter intake. Hope not, I really like the white guy, and he was 45 bucks! If I were to add a few more full grown Altos, you think that would curb his aggression? The only real thing they are in with is some sub adult Neolamp Sex Gold.

And no, Joe Hayes be the name.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

jhayes6405 said:


> Yeah he is the favorite fish at the moment. I think he is about to kill my WC white Calvus though. He chases the white one around all the time, and the white one just hangs out at the top corner of the tank by the filter intake. Hope not, I really like the white guy, and he was 45 bucks! If I were to add a few more full grown Altos, you think that would curb his aggression? The only real thing they are in with is some sub adult Neolamp Sex Gold.
> 
> And no, Joe Hayes be the name.


You may have to pull the white calvus, or,... the black one.

The Jed I know has a brother named Joe and a sister named Ginger.


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## jhayes6405 (May 1, 2009)

Well you think I could do something to it by adding more? I don't have another tank to put him in, and my town is horrible when it comes to fish, so I couldn't get anything for him. So, in a couple weeks I have a chance to get some more Altos, should I add another pair or two, and curb some of that aggression?


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

Hey jhayes6405,

It sound and looks, but still hard to tell 100% from your pics, that you have 2 calvus males and most of the time they will fight no matter how many other calvus you have in the tank.I had 14 in a 125 gallon and the alpha male still bullied the beta male almost to death,but luckily I moved him just in time.I thought by having many would spread the aggression but they seem to target who to chase.


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## jhayes6405 (May 1, 2009)

Man, that is exactly what i was trying to accomplish!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My 2 males in a 72" tank do the same. I am going to have to remove one.


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