# Black convict with yellow labs?



## delta5 (Jul 5, 2014)

I know they're from different conditions, but the black convict i'd be buying is kept in the same water as african cichlids at petsmart. The petsmart i'd get one from has the same water parameters as my water. (30+ hardness, 8.2ph) This of course would be in a 55g with plenty of rocks, 6 yellow labs, 1 acei. I'll prob up the acei count to 4 after I upgrade my filtration. (AQ50, C-220)


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## aicardi (Sep 15, 2012)

acei need a larger tank.


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## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

i personally would not mix convicts with african cichlids. I understand petsmart has the convicts in the wrong water conditions. I don't think anybody is saying a jack dempsey or a convict etc... can not live in that type of water, but the point is it is not their natural water type. I try to set my tank water conditions to what is natural for the fish. I agree with the other comment that acei would do better in a 75g or larger tank. If you add a convict and more acei to your 55g it may or may not work. If you want to set up your 55g with species that are proven to get along together we can surely point you in the right directions and recommend some african cichlids that will work together in a 55g. or if you want to scrap the african cichlids and go south american central american convict style people on here could also tell you what would work with convicts in a 55g.


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## delta5 (Jul 5, 2014)

pfoster74 said:


> i personally would not mix convicts with african cichlids. I understand petsmart has the convicts in the wrong water conditions. I don't think anybody is saying a jack dempsey or a convict etc... can not live in that type of water, but the point is it is not their natural water type. I try to set my tank water conditions to what is natural for the fish. I agree with the other comment that acei would do better in a 75g or larger tank. If you add a convict and more acei to your 55g it may or may not work. If you want to set up your 55g with species that are proven to get along together we can surely point you in the right directions and recommend some african cichlids that will work together in a 55g. or if you want to scrap the african cichlids and go south american central american convict style people on here could also tell you what would work with convicts in a 55g.


Thats what sucks about it. So many africans I like but not carried in nearby stores, and the same is true for american cichlids. My wife isn't going to let me buy a 75g because I already spent nearly 4k on fish and PC stuff in the last 6 months. Even tho a lfs has aqueon 75g glass tanks for 99.99 right now she still says no...


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

pfoster74 said:


> jack dempsey or a convict etc... but the point is it is not their natural water type.


How do you figure that? :-? 
CA cichlids typically come from similar pH, though often from much harder water.
I know it has been said a thousand times over and over for the last 40 some years that Malawi cichlids come from "'very hard waters", but that is quite a stretch. Saying it over and over does not make it any more true. It's no mystery what lake Malawi water is like, it's been measured enough times.http://malawicichlids.com/mw01011.htm
http://www.mchportal.com/aquatic-li...ology-biotopes-mainmenu-151/45.html?task=view
pH 7.4-8.6, dH 4-6, electrical conductivity 210-240 ms. NOT "very hard". In fact a dH 4-6 would most often be considered moderately soft!

Here measurements have been taken from salvini's range, a CA cichlid that is found with jack Dempsey and firemouth:http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=109
"Water chemistry is always on the alkaline side, with pH measurements over 7.5 and values up to 8.0 or more not being unusual. Hardness is always the widest variation, from relatively soft waters (dh 8.0) to very hard waters (> 50 dh)."

Another article on firemouth, a cichlid found though out the range of jack Dempsey:http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=7 "Water measurements in the _Thorichthys meeki_ habitat can be expected to show alkaline readings in many cases over pH 8.0 and hardness levels from hard to very hard."

The prevaing rock through much of JD's range is limestone, so not suprising that it comes from water that is alkaline and very hard. Also, it is often found in brackish water, so definitely not soft.

Convicts have an extensive range in CA. Like a number of CA cichlids, convicts are found in CA's largest lake: Lake Nicaragua. Midas cichlid comes from there and red devil is endemic to this lake.
In the past, when I had access to academic journals, I did my own research. I read through hours of info that did not concern me, nor interest me, just to find measurements taken in lake Nicaragua. These are measurements taken for the purpose of science......not somebodies made-up fish profile where they simply reiterate. Measurements taken for the purpose of science! I found 5-6 academic papers on water quality of lake Nicaragua showing a pH range of 7.8 to 8.8 with most values around pH 8.5. One paper in particular, had measurements taken from several places in the lake,for every single month of the year. The lake is considered to be moderately hard. I also found a couple papers on the water quality of lake Managua (lake Xolatlan), another one of CA's largest lakes. It is considered a "soda lake" with a pH 9.5. A few midas-type cichlids come from this lake.


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## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

I have no issues with acei in a 55 gallon, although they get a bit big, they aren't aggressive. I also have no issues with a SINGLE convict in with these fish. I have no idea where people get the idea that Central America is a soft water area, often the ph where some of these fish, including convicts are collected isn't too dissimilar to that of Lake Malawi. A pair of convicts is inviting trouble when the spawn though, and I wouldn't recommend that. The convicts when spawning are likely to try and take over the tank, often successful and kill their tankmates.


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## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

All species from Lake Malawi thrive in the temperature range of 77-84°F. pH 7.5-8.4 is ideal with an almost pristine (near 0 ppm) Ammonia and Ammonium Nitrite content, Ammonium Nitrate levels are controlled by water changes as needed to maintain these demanding levels. Due to the high mineral content of Lake Malawi many Aquarists supplement their water with specific salts and mineral additives. This mineral content is comprised predominately of sodium, calcium, magnesium and potassium. GH / KH A GH value over 10 is a good starting point (moderately hard water). KH values are not so crucial for the well being of the Malawi cichlid but it can help a lot to keep the pH stable even if something goes wrong (carbon dioxide injection or overfeeding). A KH value of 8-10 is a sure bet.

Convict cichlids are endemic to the lakes and streams of Central America. In particular, the species occurs along the eastern coast of Central America from Guatemala to Costa Rica, and on the western coast from Honduras to Panama.[1] Convict cichlids prefer moving water, and are most frequently found in habitats with cover in the form of rocks or sunken branches.[19] At four natural habitats of the convict cichlid in Costa Rica, the pH was found to range from 6.6-7.8, while GH ranged from 63 to 77 ppm CaCO
3. The daily water temperature ranged from 26-29 °C (79-84 °F).[14] Convict cichlids can be relatively tolerant of cool water, an ability which has allowed the species to colonise volcanic lakes at elevations of 1,500 meters (4,900 ft).[20]

sure an african mbuna could live in a stream from panama or u could throw a convict in lake malawi and it would live but in nature they have different water conditions.

food wise In natural habitats, the species has a diet composed of various prey, including crustaceans, small fish, insects, worms, plants and algae. This varied diet is a result of the fish's ability to protrude its jaw 4.2% of standard length.[25] Inferior social status and associated stress can affect digestive function in convict cichlids.[26]

mbuna food requirements are more geared with vegetable based diet. again not saying a balance between the convicts needs vs mbuna can't be met. I do not recommend mixing central or south american cichlids with african cichlids personally but it can be done successfully.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

pfoster74 said:


> A GH value over 10 is a good starting point (moderately hard water)


Sure that is fine for Malawi cichlids....even though they come from softer water.
It is also fine for CA cichlids....even though they often originate from harder waters.


pfoster74 said:


> At four natural habitats of the convict cichlid in Costa Rica, the pH was found to range from 6.6-7.8, while GH ranged from 63 to 77 ppm CaCO


Central America is a large area. Of course you can find lower pH and hardness dependant on what area. That is the same hardness as lake Malawi. As you can see from my second link, pH of high 7's is pretty common from some popular collection points in lake Malawi.


pfoster74 said:


> sure an african mbuna could live in a stream from panama or u could throw a convict in lake malawi and it would live but in nature they have different water conditions.


Not sure what your point is here? Water in an aquarium will never be identical to nature, either in lake Malawi or Central America. But raise the GH and/or dump "cichlid salts" in your Malawi tanks and chances are much better it resembles water from CA then it does the softer water of lake Malawi! :lol: 


pfoster74 said:


> mbuna food requirements are more geared with vegetable based diet.


Mbuna diets vary considerably in nature. Just as many CA cichlids have a predominantly vegetarian based diet such as _Neetropluc nematopus_ and most Veija/Paratheraps species. Nothing "special" or significantly different compared to other cichlids!


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## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

pfoster74 said:


> mbuna food requirements are more geared with vegetable based diet. again not saying a balance between the convicts needs vs mbuna can't be met. I do not recommend mixing central or south american cichlids with african cichlids personally but it can be done successfully.


BC addressed most of your points, but this is a massive over generalization, and in MANY cases simply false. Case and point, Yellow Labs are primarily carnivorous....which this person is specifically asking about.


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## delta5 (Jul 5, 2014)

I'd only be getting 1 black convict if I do. Is this talk about diet what the hardcore cichlid keepers follow? Reason I ask is because I have only seen cichlid food at stores. Their not labeled for certain types of cichlids either.

I like the way the black convict looks, but I am trying to find 1 fish that will be sort of a 'center piece.'


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## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

BC in SK said:


> pfoster74 said:
> 
> 
> > A GH value over 10 is a good starting point (moderately hard water)
> ...


obviously you know more than wikipedia. again as i originally stated sure it may work. in my opinion it is not a good idea to mix south american cichlids with african cichlids.


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## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

delta5 said:


> I'd only be getting 1 black convict if I do. Is this talk about diet what the hardcore cichlid keepers follow? Reason I ask is because I have only seen cichlid food at stores. Their not labeled for certain types of cichlids either.
> 
> I like the way the black convict looks, but I am trying to find 1 fish that will be sort of a 'center piece.'


For certain fish it is quite important that you feed them a proper diet, though these really aren't the ones you are keeping. Most "high quality" cichlid foods these days are good for most (but not all) cichlids that are available to us. The key is high quality brands.



pfoster74 said:


> obviously you know more than wikipedia. again as i originally stated sure it may work. in my opinion it is not a good idea to mix south american cichlids with african cichlids.


Of course a convict isn't a South American Cichlid... so I'm not sure of your point here. :lol: Other than being a purist, there isn't much of a reason not to mix a single convict in with Malawians, and it's been done hundreds of times quite well.


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## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

yeah i'm having a hard time with your points also.


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## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

pfoster74 said:


> yeah i'm having a hard time with your points also.


Ok, so given the diets aren't an issue in this case, and the water parameters aren't an issue, what exactly is the issue?


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## delta5 (Jul 5, 2014)

Got a nice sized black convict in there now that is same length as biggest lab. Its a male convict. One thing I am confused about is how the blue kenyi act around him. Two of the blue kenyi will swim up and down really fast in front of him then kind of brush up against his side and then dance in front of him again. When they brush against his side he doesn't do nothing or act like anything happened. Also, the male lab that has been chasing the female labs will turn on his side a little and it looks like he is sniffing the black convict's private area.


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

...love is in the air...


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