# Gender of my Texas Cichlid?



## baddiesel (Nov 1, 2009)

After determining the species (ie Texas Cichlid); I guessed that it was a female. I would like to find a suitable mate; I'm just not so sure the gender. *Also, so far the only compatible tank mates have been 5 Australian Rainbow fish. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. These 6 fish is all that I have in a 150 gallon tank (4' x 2' x 31" high). Thank you in-advance for your advice and info. Click on the photobucket video for a better view of this pretty "thang".
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af241/baddiesel1/150%20gallon%20tropical%20fish%20aquarium/IMAG0024.jpg[/IMG[URL=http://s1012.photobucket.com/albums/af241/baddiesel1/150%20gallon%20tropical%20fish%20aquarium/?

action=view&current=VIDEO0001.mp4][img]http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af241/baddiesel1/150%20gallon%20tropical%20fish%20aquarium/th_VIDEO0001.jpg[/URL]


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## joshk281 (Sep 16, 2010)

Could you try to get a closer pic? Cant really tell that far back


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## baddiesel (Nov 1, 2009)

If you click on the video in my Photobucket album, you'll get a much better view. I don't know how to post the link. Let me know, if you can't locate the video.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Females have a dark splotch on their dorsal fin. Males do not.

How to post pics:

1. Sign up for a free account with a one of these web sites: 
www.freewebspace.net 
www.photobucket.com

2. Upload the pictures from your PC to that online site. Pictures will be stored on their server and then accessible anywhere on the WWW.

3. After the upload is complete, view the photo you wish to post here. Right-click on the picture and then select Properties. Copy the Address (URL).

4. On this forum, Write in your post the following:

Code: 









5. THEN, before you SUBMIT your post, be sure to PREVIEW it first. You should see the image. If not, double check your code.


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## baddiesel (Nov 1, 2009)

I've heard that the "spotch" rule of thumb is not always 100% correct. Or, was it the "hump". At any rate, my mind is saturated with info from the internet. I very much appreciate your expert opinion/info. Here's another try with the photobucket images.







[/URL][/imgURL=http://s1012.photobucket.com/albums/af241/baddiesel1/150%20gallon%20tropical%20fish%20aquarium/?action=view&current=IMAG0048.jpg]







[/URL


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## baddiesel (Nov 1, 2009)

*joshk281* Josh, I've posted additional photos. After you click on the pic, and the photobucket pic comes into view, click "next", until the video show's up. The video is probably the best. I don't see any "black splotch" on the dorsal fin. *Note, I used to live in Austin, and in Harker Heights, TX.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

From the new pictures, I can now see that I am more then likely wrong. Your fish is most likely Herichthys carpintis, and not the H. cyanaguttatus that I figured it was. In one of the new pics, one can see that it has markings on the face as well.

H. carpinitis has a number of different strains and from what I have recently read, in it's more northern range, where it comes closer to H. cyanaguttatus' range, the H. carpinitis have smaller spots and are more cyanaguttatus -looking, then the more southern strains. Anyways, it can be tough, sometimes to distinguish the two species, especially from a picture . If you google either name you will get some pictures that are clearly the other, as both species have been confused in the trade.

The blotch on the dorsal is fairly reliable to sex texas cichlids. From what I can tell from one of the pictures, it doesn't apear to have any blotch, but you would be able to tell a lot better looking at the fish in person. A nauchal hump is more common on males, but not that unusual on some mature females, so it is not a very reliable indicator with many C.A. cichlids.


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## baddiesel (Nov 1, 2009)

So, if you believe this to be a northern variety of H. carpintis. What gender?, and what was your determining factor(s). I noticed the lack of "elongated" spots on the face. All the H. carpintis photos that I examined, had elongated spots around the face & mouth areas. This specimen has more defined spots, some more oval than others.

I would love to locate a suitable mate. Any ideas where I could locate one?

On a different note, what other tank mates would be suitable? (a Jack Dempsey, and Pictus catfish are not viable options). The rainbow fish even sleep with this character. Thanks for your info and responses.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

baddiesel said:


> you believe this to be a northern variety of H. carpintis.


No, it's usually rather difficult to attribute a particular regional strain on an aquarium strain fish. You'd really need to know the original collection point for that. Often there is some overlap in the apearance of strains and bred over time, the distinctions may become less then apperant. Even if it resembles one strain more then the other, it could easily be a mix ---- even a mix of cyano and carpintis is certainly possible. I was just noting that there is quite a range of apearance for this species not to mention the fact that they do change in apearance with age.

Picture #2, in particular, is what made me change my mind ---- markings right on front of the face, the whole body is covered with bright spots, many of the spots really aren't that small.

Gender ---- if you don't see a black blotch in the middle of the dorsal fin, it is more then likely a male. It's general overall look and body shape is that of a male, though a very mature female is still a slim possibility.

If you can't find a female at a pet shop, there are places to order from such as Jeff Japps:
http://www.tangledupincichlids.com/index.html

I think you would be better off with a group of females and let him choose a mate. Female cons would work as target fish, with some rocks to hide in, to distract some of his aggression away from the femael carpintis. Seeing that he owns the tank, cichlid tankmates are going to be hard to introduce. Since he tolerates the australian rainbow fish fine, you'd probably have more success with non-cichlid tankmates that are large enough ------maybe swordtails, giant danios, very large tetras, group of blue/gold gourami, ect. A raphael catfish is virtually industructible, though it is nocturnal and seldom seen during the day.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

If you (or us for that matter) are not 100% on what the fish is then DON'T breed it.

And the reason you don't want to breed is because of what's happening now. This could very well be a cross. I have a small group of carpinte, 2" each. I have ten... When they pair off and spawn I will be glad to provide you with a pure fish. Free of charge, you pay shipping....

Be happy with the male you have, keep him as a show fish in his own tank, but please do not breed him.


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## joshk281 (Sep 16, 2010)

Def A beautiful Male He Looks Good


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## baddiesel (Nov 1, 2009)

Wow!, I just don't know what to say. First off, thank you Bernie for the info. I'll do a lot more research on the species.

Josh, thanks again for your responses.

Mr. FishGuy: As fish keeping has been a pleasurable hobby of mine, spanning 40+ years, and still I'm not an expert. For me, the work, the money, etc. is for fun and enjoyment. I'm not a breeder, I do this for fun, and to relieve stress. I actually appreciate the maintenance and the science of an aquatic ecosystem.

I agree with Bernie; Without known origins, (wild caught, DNA testing, paper trail of documentation), you cannot know without any doubt, the "purity" of a species. I could just imagine the amount of in-breeding that takes place by breeders and hobbyist alike.

I respect your opinion; I just have a different approach to a hobby. Make it fun and enjoyable!!! Remember, it's a fish. Not an AKC registered thoroughbred.


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

Personally here's what I'd do with your tank...and here is why:

First, since your "texas" cichlid gets along well with Austrailian Rainbowfish---I'd add a lot more of them. Boesemani Rainbowfish are one of the most beautiful of the genus, and a large school of them is an impressive display, even on it's own. I'd triple that school of Rainbowfish. If that's not financially possible, then consider one of the less colorful/less expensive common varieties...most species of the genus will are compatible.

I'd also consider other non-cichlid species----there are a wide variety that would work.

I'd think twice about adding any other cichlid species....it may just "turn on" the aggressive nature of your current one, and it will go on a killing spree. I've seen that happen before. If I did add other species, it would be smaller ones that aren't likely to threaten the dominance/territory of your texas.

**I most definitely would not try to introduce another Texas or Carpinte. First of all, even if you are certain that you have a male and can obtain a known female...not all males/females are compatible. You would likely need several females to get a compatible pair--and your tank will certainly become a war zone.

Another thing to consider...your tank doesn't have a lot of bottom space compared to a typical 150g, so the available territory for cichlids is less. Personally, I'd just make a nice display with your texas being the center of attention.


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## baddiesel (Nov 1, 2009)

Old Cat,

Thanks for the response. I have considered more Bosemanis', Turquoise, and if I can locate Irian Reds (if I can find non-faded, deep reds).

I would love to raise a breeding pair of H. carpintis, or regular Texas Cichlids. I'm attracted to their color, and I think my 150 gallon aquarium (short box), would support this adventure. I've found a buy on a brand new 75 gallon fish tank. I just *don't* think it would be big enough for my Cichlid and his 5 roommates. Maybe, it's just my point of view. But, that 75 gallon tank look's very small and I don't like over-crowded conditions.[/u]

Thanks again


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Baddiesel, You're missing the point. I am not a breeder, just a hobbiest, and a bit of a purist. I'm a member of the Ohio Cichlid Association and spent some time on the board also. I'd just hate to see what happened to the vieja complex happen to the herichthys complex is all. I am not a fan of hybrids. Simply because of the confusion it causes. I enjoy maintaining my tanks too, even though 40 can get a bit crazy. The three big tanks are virtually maint. free. due to time constraints. I agree with you 1000000000000% for the reasons of being in the hobby.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

TheFishGuy said:


> I'd just hate to see what happened to the vieja complex happen to the herichthys complex is all.


The Texas cichlids have been in the hobby longer then midas or RD. Both cyano and carpintis were in the hobby long ago and both were often confused. No reason to supose that aquarium strain texas is any less of a mix then RD/midas. In both cases, as far as aquarium strain, what is labelled one or the other, may or may not be a mix----no one really knows that for sure.

Of course if you do not distribute the fry, no harm done. Leave the fry in the tank and they will likely get eaten. If by chance there are survivors, they can either be used as feeders for other fish or easily culled. Your not contributing to the problem unless you distribute fry..But if your a breeder distributing fry, then you should be breeding fish of known origins (known collection point), otherwise it should be made clear that the fish are aquarium strain with unknown origins (possible inter or intra-species hybrid).

Good and bad has come about due to cichlid hybirdization. Good---- fishes such as the flowerhorn, blood parrot have brought more people into the hobby and more people to CA/SA cichlids. Bad----- a lot of aquarium strain CA (such as veija, trimacs) are a mix of who knows what; buyer beware, you don't always get what you think your buying. But from my perspective, it's really hard to see how it 'ruined' the hobby as any big box store has a slection of CA/SA cichlids, 365 days a year, that would have been a 'dream' selection 30 years ago, around here. And if you really want something, and be certain of what it is, you can always order from a reputable dealer such as Jeff Rapps.


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## baddiesel (Nov 1, 2009)

OMG 40 tanks!!!, you've got a lot more dedicated time than me. Currently, I have a (small) 1500 gal koi pond, w/4 koi, and my 150 gal (short box) aquarium. 50-60% water changes every 2 weeks.
No, I did get your point. I mentioned without a paper trail of documentation, or proof of wild-caught-specimen authenticity, or DNA testing/analysis how could anyone be sure of "pure genus species". One question that I would solicit, how do you know my fish is *not* a hybrid or cross-strained-gene-pool specimen? You believe, that if there's a doubt, do not breed. Again, I respect your opinion. No, I'm not a "purist". I do admire the blood parrots and flower horns. I just don't agree with injecting colored dye into any fish's body.

I do appreciate your generous offer for a "pure" H. carpintis. My current plan is to keep my 150 gallon stocked as it is. My cichlid and his 5 Australian roommates get along just fine. I'd like to set up an additional aquarium in the near future. I was hoping I could stock these 6 fish in a 75 gallon tank; and use the 150 gallon tank for a "pairing adventure" with 10-12 young fish.

Thank you for time, input and responses.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Bernie, I was refering to the bifasciatum, black belts, fenestratus and the like. Not midas/Red Devils.

Baddiesil, all of my tanks are in one room, so maint. is easy, I also have two floor drains in the room and a dedicated slop sink for refilling and cleaning of sponge filters. One linear pump runs all the tanks and heating the bigger tanks like the 125's and 70's keeps it warm enough in the room to not have to heat the smaller 29's 50's and 10's. I can doo water changes on half the tanks in about two hours. It's when I need to start moving fry from the smaller tanks to the bigger ones is when it gets time consuming. But if I'm in a bad mood or even have a headache I can spend an hour in the fish room and all my troubles seem to melt away LOL


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

TheFishGuy said:


> Bernie, I was refering to the bifasciatum, black belts, fenestratus and the like. Not midas/Red Devils.


I'm certainly aware of what species your refferring to as Veija, and the difficulty in identifying and distinguishing them. Not really significantly different then trying to distinguish aquarium strain midas from RD. Texas cichlids the very same thing ----with out a known collection point, no way of knowing with much certainty.

IMO, over the long term, more crossing with in the aquarium populations is INEVITABLE. More species become regularily available and more and more strains are being described as 'new' species, creating a demand for fishes of different collection points. Especially the whole midas cichlid complex; so far at least 12 decribed species ----once these fish are bred for a few generations and end up at an LFS unlabled or mis-labled, no way of reliably distinguishing them. Another example: V. synspillum and V. melanurus ----as aquarium strain, no reliable way to distinguish the two, Hence the need for breeders to breed fish of a known collection point and label fish properly, so that at least something can remain pure.


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## baddiesel (Nov 1, 2009)

=D> Bernie, I concur!!! ......... Do you think I can safely stock my 6 fish in a 75 gallon tank? (ie Texas Carpintis & 5 Rainbows)


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

baddiesel said:


> ..... Do you think I can safely stock my 6 fish in a 75 gallon tank? (ie Texas Carpintis & 5 Rainbows)


Probably, though you would have to keep a close eye, to begin with, in case his attitude changes towards his tankmates, in smaller space.


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