# high ph



## jdgambler111 (Apr 1, 2008)

Is there such thing as too high with cichlids? My ph goes up very fast after i change the water.it's about 7.8 after the water change and within a few days it's almost 9.


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## convictkid (Jul 28, 2004)

9 is high and yes a ph of bleach which is around 13 something would kill anything, so 9 is high but not extreme, 14 is the highest on the ph scale btw


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## jdgambler111 (Apr 1, 2008)

does anyone know why it goes up so fast?


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## tekjunky (Apr 28, 2005)

Thats a loaded question 

Tekjunky


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## jdgambler111 (Apr 1, 2008)

OK,I'm asking about ph.I guess i'l just change 30% of my water twice a week.That's the only thing that seems to work.


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## fumoffu (Apr 23, 2008)

jdgambler111 said:


> does anyone know why it goes up so fast?


Is your Ph going up very fast? What do you have rock/gravel wise in the tank? Some concrete/cinder blocks have lye (sp?) in them which is very alkaline. Remember the scene in Fight Club where he get's a chemical burn, that was from lye. It has a very high pH and that wold be too high for cichlids.


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## jdgambler111 (Apr 1, 2008)

I have a mostly a beach type sand and some white sand.I also have some limestone.There is no concrete.I own a construction comp.I know alot about concrete.Your right you wouldn't want it in your tank.


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## zugbug (Dec 12, 2005)

I would have to ask a couple of questions first. You say the pH is 7.8 when you change the water then goes up to 9.0 after the change. Does it stay at 9.0 until your next water change and then goes to 7.8 right after the change? What is the pH of the water that you are adding?
What is the alkalinity in the tank? I suspect it's very high.
Your intital reading of 7.8 maybe due to the fact the pH has not stabilized in the tank after your water change.


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## jdgambler111 (Apr 1, 2008)

the water i'm adding is about 7.3 the ph of the tank after the change is around 7.8 then it gradually goes up to around 9 within a couple days.


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## quiksilver (Mar 2, 2007)

does that ph swing affect your fish?? from 7.8 to 9


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## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

> does that ph swing affect your fish?? from 7.8 to 9


I wouldn't think it would be very good for the fish, after all the preaching about stable ph being so important.

Does the ph go up when you pour it into a bucket and let it sit for X amount of time? 
Experiment outside of the aquarium and let us know what the ph does.

My tap water ph goes from 7.3 to 8.3 after it sits and is aerated for several hours. 
If I understand it correctly, it is something called "off gassing" which happens when carbon dioxide leaves the water.
Apparently my water company puts it in there to keep the ph at a level that won't corrode the pipes.

I have to "prep" my change water, so it is stable and similar to the tank water, before a partial water change.
You may need to do this too.


> the water i'm adding is about 7.3 the ph of the tank after the change is around 7.8 then it gradually goes up to around 9 within a couple days.


So the tank water stays at 9 until you do a partial water change, it drops and then rises?
If" the ones that know" say a ph of 9 is not too high, I would think you should use water for partial changes that is 9 already and not have that fluctuation or bounce.

Test the water in a bucket and keep us posted. Maybe we can figure this out _with_ you.


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## jdgambler111 (Apr 1, 2008)

ok .It will be a few of days till my next post.


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## jdgambler111 (Apr 1, 2008)

the water in the test bucket went up also.my ph test only goes upto 8.6.i'm just guestimating the 9 reading.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

alicem said:


> If I understand it correctly, it is something called "off gassing" which happens when carbon dioxide leaves the water.


That's exactly right, alicem. :thumb: There's a direct relationship between CO2 and pH.

I'd be more concerned with the KH value which is the pH stabilizer. The fact that it drops to 7.3 between changes suggests that your KH value may be low. You may want to test for KH or carbonate hardness. 
If it's low, then another good reason to prep change water would be to add the buffer (sodium bicarbonate;baking soda) before using. Having a solid KH or buffer value of 8 or so will stabilize the pH at around 8.3.

If prepping is not an option then you can dissolve the sodium bicarbonate in water and add it slowly on occasion or after each water change.

Another option is just to keep up with water changes so buffer is replenished frequently. A lot of factors like fish load and filters and filter maintenance come into play, so some tanks can get by without adding buffers where others certainly benefit.


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## jdgambler111 (Apr 1, 2008)

I clean my filters every two weeks and change them every other time (instead of cleaning them.)I have a penguin 350 and also a 2nd nature whisper not sure on model.It has two bags though.I use activated carbon and a nitrate lowering additive.


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## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

jdgambler111 said:


> I clean my filters every two weeks and change them every other time (instead of cleaning them.)I have a penguin 350 and also a 2nd nature whisper not sure on model.It has two bags though.I use activated carbon and a nitrate lowering additive.


I don't know if the activated carbon or nitrate lowering additive have an affect on pH. Hopefully prov356 or someone else has that info. :thumb:

Prov356 has given the best advise, we should look at the KH numbers for buffering (stabilizing) the pH.
Do you have a test kit for KH? The liquid reagent tests (with bottles and test tubes) are most accurate. Some are the KH test only, or there's a combo that tests KH _and_ GH. 
Test the KH in the _tank_ water, also the _tap_ water.

If you are interested, I'll share the details of the easiest way I've found for me to prep my change water.

For now, let's look at the tap KH and the tank KH numbers.
Alicem

BTW, shout out "Hey!" to Tim


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

alicem said:


> BTW, shout out "Hey!" to Tim


"Hey" to you too alicem 



jdgambler111 said:


> I clean my filters every two weeks and change them every other time (instead of cleaning them.)I have a penguin 350 and also a 2nd nature whisper not sure on model.It has two bags though.I use activated carbon and a nitrate lowering additive.


Your maintenance sounds good. I know the carbon doesn't affect pH and I doubt the other chemical does either, but I'd have to know specifically what it was.

I didn't see anywhere what type of cichlids you're keeping, so I may have spoken too soon assuming we're talking about rift lake cichlids.

Regardless, I'm sure it'd be the CO2 gassing off that'd be causing the rise in pH. If you post your KH value and type of cichlids, lots here who can help in stabilizing the water parameters and getting them into an ok range, if you need that.


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## jdgambler111 (Apr 1, 2008)

i'll have to get a kit to test kh.I have cynotilapia cobue,metriaclima greshei,melanochromis auratus,metriaclima lombardoi.tinfoil barbs,rainbow shark,and a small mouth


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