# huh



## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

I have 9 africans and one pleco. Iv'e been doing weekly water changes filtering gravel and my nitrates are starting to build. I have an over filter 60 gal that I thought was understocked, a proper stock on a 60 is maybe 15 fish isn't it?

PS they are all juveniles so I have been feeding generously to get them to grow out. Right now my nitrates are at about 20, zero nitrites and zero ammonia.


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## Kalost (Feb 27, 2013)

Depends on what type of fish. What species do you have?


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## StangG20 (Aug 12, 2013)

how much water are you changing? i do at least 50% even with a moderate stocking


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

StangG20 said:


> how much water are you changing? i do at least 50% even with a moderate stocking


50% every week? so far according to my tests it hasn't been necessary


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Feed less generously.

Gravel can store a lot of waste and uneaten food. It's one of the reasons a lot of people use sand. Much easier to vacuum.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

My fish are juveniles so I've been feeding the generously to help grow them out.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

StangG20 said:


> how much water are you changing? i do at least 50% even with a moderate stocking


Pleco
bumble bee
3 labs
acei
red zebra
red fined borleyhi
Kribensis Cichlid
jewel

All of them are less than three inches


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

jeffkro said:


> My fish are juveniles so I've been feeding the generously to help grow them out.


That works up to a point. When uneaten food fouls the water it will actually slow growth.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

I don't feed them more than they can eat in a couple minutes and feed them with a pellet food so all the gunk in the tank is from the other end of the fish.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Pleco
bumble bee
3 labs
*acei*
red zebra
*red fined borleyhi*
_Kribensis Cichlid
jewel_

The fish I have italisized are not rift lake cichlids and should not be kept in a lake Malawi setup. The fish I have underlined will out grow your tank. JM2C.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

bummer


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

Oh I forgot I think a yellow top mbamba, according to the store, the coloration doesn't look much like the species profile pics though.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

jeffkro said:


> StangG20 said:
> 
> 
> > how much water are you changing? i do at least 50% even with a moderate stocking
> ...


It is fine that your tests indicate you don't need to change 50% weekly. However, if you were to do a 50% change your 20ppm of nitrate would be 10. Regardless changing more than necessary is never a bad idea. Over filtering will in no way lessen the need for water changes. That is determined by the bio load. Clean water is essential to optimum growth. It doesn't sound like you are feeding as much as I would so that isn't the issue. If you want to keep nitrate levels low, change water. Personally, I don't think 50% is a big change.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

I can't be doing 50% water changes on a 60 gal with my 2 gal bucket, I'm going to have to come with a system. It does seem like I'm going to have to do the weekly 50% though and probably not increase my stock any. Maybe I should dump my poop machine pleco and replace with two africans, he never comes out when the lights are on anyways.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Get a python, or at very least a 5 gal bucket. I used to do W/C's on a 55gal with a 5 gal bucket. It wasn't so bad. With my 90, though, I was using a python. It's very simple to use. Just screw it onto your faucet.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Yeah- I remember the bucket brigade. If you have a window nearby and your tank is above ground, siphon the water outside. Then, hook a garden hose to your kitchen faucet (you can buy an adapter at any hardware store). Easy peasy.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

Dont you have to mix the water in a container before putting it in the tank, to get the temp close and treat with a dechlorinater/conditioner first? When I've been refilling my tank I have only been adding about one bucket every 15min or so, it takes forever.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

No you can add the conditioner directly to your tank just prior to filling it with the hose BUT you will need to add enough conditioner for the size of your aquarium rather than the amount of new water you are adding. Just adjust the water temperature at the faucet so that it is similar to the water in your aquarium to avoid adding too cold or too hot water.

I haven't used a bucket in years and don't miss lugging them around!


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

jeffkro said:


> Dont you have to mix the water in a container before putting it in the tank, to get the temp close and treat with a dechlorinater/conditioner first? When I've been refilling my tank I have only been adding about one bucket every 15min or so, it takes forever.


Hook python up to sink. Put other end in tank. Turn sink on with valve open, tank will drain. Close valve. Add dechlorinator to aquarium, turn water back on, tank will fill up. All you have to do is keep an eye on it to make sure you don't overflow your tank (speaking from experience here....)

You do not need to premix water, let water sit, etc etc. All you have to do is pour the water and dechlorinator into your tank and it will sort itself out. You should add enough dechlorinator to treat your entire tank volume, not just the amount of new water you're adding.

If you're not already using it, switch to Seachem Prime water conditioner. It's the cheapest to use (1/2 mL per 5 gallons) and detoxifies ammonia and nitrite in an emergency. Good stuff.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

pablo111 said:


> If you're not already using it, switch to Seachem Prime water conditioner. It's the cheapest to use (1/2 mL per 5 gallons) and detoxifies ammonia and nitrite in an emergency. Good stuff.


Seachem Safe is even cheaper and does the exact same thing. It's in powder form while Prime is the liquid version.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

So when using this method to fill up the tank how far off can the water temp be without shocking the fish? Do you do the fill in intervals to make sure you don't change anything to fast that puts your fish in shock?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

jeffkro said:


> So when using this method to fill up the tank how far off can the water temp be without shocking the fish? Do you do the fill in intervals to make sure you don't change anything to fast that puts your fish in shock?


I usually try to have the temperature be a few of degrees below what's in the tank and change at least 50% in one go. I use a thermometer to check. Going a little below seems to trigger spawning behaviour in some of my fish. Most of the fish hang out under where the water is coming in, suggesting they're not bothered by the incoming cooler water.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

zimmy said:


> jeffkro said:
> 
> 
> > So when using this method to fill up the tank how far off can the water temp be without shocking the fish? Do you do the fill in intervals to make sure you don't change anything to fast that puts your fish in shock?
> ...


I've heard of that being done with fish that live in rivers, but I didn't think it was true of fish from large bodies of water like rift lake cichlids. What kind of fish do you do this with? I've always done W/C with the same temperature water.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

It does work with rift cichlids too, maybe it simulates the rainy season I dunno, but I have always experienced more spawning behaviour in my tang tank after water changes and I always try to add water a couple degrees cooler than actual tank temp.


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

pablo111 said:


> zimmy said:
> 
> 
> > jeffkro said:
> ...


 I do this with my Tropheus tank, they start going at it as soon as I am done with the water change. I don't go to cold just a couple degrees below 79 I am lucky as I am on a well, so I do not have to treat with anything.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

I agree with all of the above. If your nitrates are building, it certainly is not because it is over stocked. 9 fish is a safe number in a 60g. Your numbers must indicate the need for a greater % water change if your nitrates ppm are building with each testing. Are you testing weekly before water changes? I would highly recommend getting a python and I use 4 5gallon buckets to treat my water before putting it in the tank. This allows me to let the dechlorinator mix well and treat the water before intro into the tank. My fish are spoiled  They stack easily and come in handy when wanting to use treated water for cleaning my canisters, cleaning rock, or holding/transporting fish. Food grade buckets are cheap @ Home Depot. I have a 65g with 21 juveniles and I do 15g per week (remember that your volume of water is not the volume of the tank after adding substrate a décor) or about 30% and my nitrates vary from 5-15 from beginning of week to end of week. I have never had mine build up to a reading of 20ppm yet. Are you using strips or a chem kit? Accuracy could be the problem too.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

I just use the test strips and according to the kit you are safe up to 40ppm. I'm not paranoid yet it just seems like its building faster than it should for my fish load.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

I suggest getting a master test kit- the kind with drops and test tubes. The strips are notoriously inaccurate. But make sure you shake the living fins out of the reagents, and the test tube, prior and during each step of the test, and then wait 5 minutes to read.

40 ppm is too high for long term cichlid health... 20 ppm is a good time for a large water change.

Oh- and tubs/showers work well for draining your siphon hose if you don't have a window. I hated running water to empty my tank- I always chucked that part of my python as being absurdly wasteful. Gravity is sufficiently effective at emptying tanks, I saw no reason to run up my water bill any higher when I had other options. I always dosed dechlor for the whole tank (ChlorAmX, Safe, or Prime), and dissolved my soda/salt in a cup of warm water and poured it in with the refill. And yes, a couple degrees either way won't bother the fish, though cooler is better than warmer.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

I used to use buckets.. but since the addition of the 180g there was just no way.. BUT.. still not close to ideal.. my sink is over 75ft away.. so I have a 100ft python I use. Better than buckets by a long shot but a pain to coil up afterwards.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

skurj said:


> I used to use buckets.. but since the addition of the 180g there was just no way.. BUT.. still not close to ideal.. my sink is over 75ft away.. so I have a 100ft python I use. Better than buckets by a long shot but a pain to coil up afterwards.


i bet coiling up the python is heaven to the old bucket method! :thumb: 
im very fotunate that my tank is only 12-15ft at the extreme end from my kitchen sink.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

ozman said:


> skurj said:
> 
> 
> > I used to use buckets.. but since the addition of the 180g there was just no way.. BUT.. still not close to ideal.. my sink is over 75ft away.. so I have a 100ft python I use. Better than buckets by a long shot but a pain to coil up afterwards.
> ...


When I lived alone and had a 90 gal I just left the python hooked up all the time and stepped over the hose.


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## kbro (Feb 14, 2014)

Yep still enough room to wash my hands and brush teeth etc. Under the tee since I have mine hooked to the bathroom sink almost 24/7. Haha


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

kbro said:


> Yep still enough room to wash my hands and brush teeth etc. Under the tee since I have mine hooked to the bathroom sink almost 24/7. Haha


well it wont happen in my house what you and pablo do. jeez my wife would go ballistic and i would'nt blame her either, i respect her to much to try that. but if your single you only answer to yourself hey! :lol:


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