# firemouth with gouramis



## brandon O (Oct 23, 2010)

can i put one 2 1/2 inch firemouth in a 40gallon hexagon tank with 4 blue gouramis and 7 neon tetras?


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## 75505 (Apr 20, 2012)

For a while, yes. When he gets bigger it'll be crowded until he eats your neon tetras. Depending on his personality he might even kill the gouramis. He would really be a great fish to put in a 40 gallon by himself. They need the room because they push 6-7 inches. You can house a pair in a 55 gallon if they get along.


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

Probably won't bother the gourami, but the neons are doomed. In fact, the gouramis will probably kill them.


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## 75505 (Apr 20, 2012)

You think? I have heard of blue and gold gouramis being more violent than the others and unfit for community tanks but I didn't think it was that bad.


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

"You think? I have heard of blue and gold gouramis being more violent than the others and unfit for community tanks but I didn't think it was that bad."

--Neon tetras are very small, inoffensive fish. They just don't do well with most larger fish. Blue/Gold gouramis get 4 to 6 inches and are a bit territorial. Basically, just slightly less aggressive than a firemouth or Aulonocara peacock (from lake Malawi). In other words, they won't bother most fish that are equal sized and temperament, but will bully fish much smaller---neons are snack sized for a 4+ inch fish, even larger ones.


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## 75505 (Apr 20, 2012)

Oh, harm the tetras. Sorry, my reading comprehension must have been off! I thought you had meant they would be aggressive towards the firemouth. My mistake.  I understand now!


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

mmolitor87 said:


> I thought you had meant they would be aggressive towards the firemouth.


I've had them in the past were on a number of occasions the blue gourami was dominant over the firemouth, though I have never witnessed really excessive aggression from a blue gourami towards a cichlid......only towards there own kind at various times.

My current male was aggressive from day one. Purchased 3 in late 2009 and placed in a 75 gal. with young salvini, he chased the other 2 excessively and killed one. Last year, my 125 gal. leaked so all the fish in there were moved to my 180 for some time.....the other blue gourami purchased in 2009 (female) was killed very shortly after that, and I'm almost certain he did it. When other fish are raised with cichlids, they learn from tankmates, and IMO often become more aggressive then they would if they had lived in a different tank.

Over the last 1 1/2 years, my male blue gourami (4" and 15g) has most often been dominant over the subordinate Pseudotropheus crabro, bumble bee cichlid, ( ~5" and 30-40+ grams). in my tank. It's crazy and rather funny :lol: I wish I would have caught it on video. He chases them away over short distance; often in aggressive display in there prescence and numerous breif scraps in which the bumble bees always run away. The bumble bees seem disinterested in ingaging in conflict with the gourami and there efforts seem half-hearted......of course there time is limited as they might get caught by the dominant male, and generally probably not worth it for them, though some scraps amongst the subordinate bumble bees are furious and continue on long after the dominant male has arrived and reprimended them. They must have got fed up with him though, as the last month there is no longer much of anything aggression-wise between the two......though I'm sure i will see it again in the near future as my blue gourami doesn't seem to like the bumble bees,one bit. :lol:


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

bernie comeau said:


> I wish I would have caught it on video.


Just uploaded from my camera to computer and i do have videos from february, showing a little bit of the blue gourami- bumble bee interaction :lol: The dominant male crabro is not in any of the videos (or just barely -- the very top and very end of the 1st video). The crabro, whith the chunk missing in it's dorsal fin (came that way from LFS) is an original i purchased 2 years ago. I am pretty sure now that it is a male. Measured at 5 1/4" and weighed at 39g last december. The others were born feb, 2010 so are 1 year old in this video and measured over 4" to 4 3/4 and weighed close to 30g, last december.
http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z116/Bern-C/?action=view&current=023-1.mp4

http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z116/Bern-C/?action=view&current=032.mp4

And a brief scrap at end of video with crabro fleeing:
http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z116/Bern-C/?action=view&current=036.mp4


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

Nice tank Bernie...I like the Jewel pair. Your BB pair seems fairly mellow too.

The Crabro I had were very aggressive....but I only kept the one colony, and they were with other aggressive Malawis. I know you like them--but they are probably my least favorite Malawi species. Aggressive, and not very colorful as adults. Most of the other Malawi cichlids are at least colorful.

I've had the same experience with gourami aggression against each other. And I've had them aggressive/dominant over newly introduced cichlids...but never long term.

By the way, my uncle used to breed fish. Mostly mollies but also opaline (blue color variant) gouramis. He had some real monster ones--one was larger than a dollar bill. He kept them overcrowded in large colonies until a female and male showed particular interest in each other. Then he would move them to their own smaller tank to breed. His gourami colony would usually kill any newcomers within minutes, no matter the species. That included a pair of firemouths that he purchased, hoping to breed them to.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

oldcatfish said:


> Your BB pair seems fairly mellow too.
> 
> The Crabro I had were very aggressive... Aggressive, and not very colorful as adults.
> 
> I've had the same experience with gourami aggression against each other. And I've had them aggressive/dominant over newly introduced cichlids...but never long term.


Just trying to show some on this fourum that a blue gourami is not a delicate fish. Have kept them in the past with rough company for many years; the last 4 years with such fish as breeding pairs of BB, salvini, cons, jewels as well as breeding groups of auratus, kenyi and crabro. The crabro on the video are not newly introduced---almost a 1 1/2 in the tank for the older and 1 full year for the others since they were born in the tank, feb. 2011, and never removed from the tank. I find it funny in a few ways. Had gourami with other mbuna (kenyi and auratus) and they show no dislike to these species in comparison to crabro. I know any kind of longer fight and the gourami would loose badly but the crabro are generally quite disinterested in the gourami, and as subordinates there "hands are tied" being in the same tank as the dominant male.

My crabro too, IMO, are very aggressive! Especially the dominant male. I realize they are not too colorfull and bright colors are nice, but its generally not too important to me. I find there character interesting.....and i guess they sort of remind me of Oreochromis mosambicus. Like having a minature Mozambique.

No, my BB are anything but mellow! It will be 6 years this october i have had this female. The male is both her son and grand son. The two bred in early feb., after I moved out the pair of sals for the cons. This young male BB had killed my large male con (6" and 105g) over 1 1/2 ago. In comparison to the other CA cichlids I keep as pairs (and polygamous groups), male and female do not get along so well! :lol: Female bullies him alot.....aggression is pretty much continuos and takes on many forms. Not just physical contact but always him having to show his subordinate status to a real extreme.


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

Ok, Bernie....I do see where you are coming from.

P.Crabro do have interesting personalities, so I can see their appeal to you. I just prefer the more colorful varieties. I have a lot of experience with Malawis....much more than with CA's. P.Crabro just happens to be my least favorite, because of the lack of color and it's aggressive nature. I can deal with the aggression, but only if it's a colorful species.

Interesting about your gourami...I've kept them successfully with CA's, SA's, and Africans long term many times; but have never had them dominate. Usually, they are just ignored by the cichlids.

Your BB still seem fairly mellow to me, but maybe the video was just shot on a "good day." My BB's have always been just as aggressive as the Red Devil/Midas cichlids that I've had.

In any event, you should post your video again, the next time someone claims that CA's can't be kept with African cichlids. I think that your video shows exactly how to do it successfully. You don't overload the tank with mbuna or rocks, and the CA's have space to see other fish coming. Very similar to how I set up the tanks.

Note to the OP...sorry about hijacking your thread. In short, the gouramis and firemouths will usually be fine together...the neons just are destined to be snack food.


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