# I have a dying African Cichlid... please help!



## holliewood1977 (Feb 18, 2009)

I have 6 AC and they all get along great...until tonight. I noticed one of the bigger males floating upside down. His fin's have been nipped to shreads. Yesterday he was totally fine. I have never had this happen before so quickly? I removed him and put him in his own bowl and added a little stress coat. Is there anything else I can do to help him recover? Or keep him from dying? If anyone has any ideas please let me know!!! Thankyou so much! Hollie


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Pseudotropheus acei? Is this what you mean?

What size tank are they in?

How long has the tank been set up?

What are the water parameters on the tank?

What is your normal tank maintenance routine?

What is the full stock list for the tank?

It sounds like you've got some aggression going on, but fish will also pick on a fish that is weakened from something else, so we need alot more information in order to help.


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## holliewood1977 (Feb 18, 2009)

Ok... well I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 fish. They are all around an inch and a half to 2 inches. I do water changes about once a month... and am very good on the upkeep. The fish in question has now died... but the weird thing is he was female and turned to male. She was bright blue with black thick strips and turned orange with all the male markings. I have never seen this happen before? Now that she is gone one of the other females is going through the same process... in just a few days she has lost most of her blue color and already had an orange dot on her back fin. I thought it was weird for this to happen once... and now that it is happening for the second time I am really curious? What could be causing this?

Another thing... there is a white substance forming on the rocks. It is almost clear with a white tint. It kinda looks like a jello? Kinda like furry cotton? haha Sorry I am trying to explain it... but I have never seen anything like this in all my years of having a tank?? I am going to clean it out and do a water change but want to take a sample to the pet store to be tested. All the other fish seem to be fine... but bought a fish yesterday, put it in the tank and it died 5 hours later? Again I have never had this happen either?

Ok so I feel like I am rambling on and on... so I will just end this and hope the info I gave you will help... so you can help me. haha

Thankyou!!


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## holliewood1977 (Feb 18, 2009)

I forgot to tell you the type of fish...

Melanochromis Johanni male

Metrinclina Lombardoi " Kenyi" (these are the ones that are turning female to male)

Electric Yellow (Kakusa)

Pseudotropheus Pindani

Now the pet store I went to doesn't know the names and didn't have them posted?? Horrible store... long story... but I look them up on the net and tried to match them up by pictures. I believer this is what they are??? Hope it helps.

Thankyou again


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

The white substance may be a fungus. Try doing weekly partial water changes of 30-40% and see if that takes care of it. Siphon the gravel every other week. And make sure you're not overfeeding your fish.

These fish don't change from male to female or vise versa however many cichlids do change their coloring in dramatic ways for a variety of reasons--sometimes right before your eyes. Kenyi, male and female, start out blue with bars but the males will eventualy turn orange while the females remain blue _however_ the females will assume male coloring when they are mouthbrooding! Amazing fish!

_Unfortunately_ Kenyi can be one of the more aggressive species and very difficult to keep. You mentioned that the injured --now deceased--fish was totally fine one day and floating at the top the next. It does sound like aggression as Kim has already mentioned. You probably should look into changing the stocking of your tank.

It's a good thing that you've looked up the names of the fish you have. I would go to the Profiles section of this site and read up on them. You could also post a question in the Lake Malawi folder listing the species you have and your tank size and then ask for suggestions on what changes you need to make. If there are one or two species that you are especially fond of ask if there's a way to build the tank around those species.

Robin


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I agree with Robin 100%.

Your tank maintenance does need to be stepped up. Once a month isn't very forgiving if you have problems, and it would be interesting to know your exact water parameters on the tank with that kind of maintenance. If you don't have test kits, now is the time to buy them. Don't get the strips, pick up liquid reagent kits for ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Anytime you have issues in a tank you will need to be able to check those 4 things.

Did these fish go through the cycling of the tank? How long has it been set up?

You do need to work on your stock list. The tank is understocked, but I don't think I would continue stocking or do anything else until you work out some things with the stocklist you already have.

Kenyi (M. lombardoi) shouldn't be kept in a tank this small, everything else sounds okay, but you still have to stock them properly. If you're interested in breeding at all, I would not have more than 3 species in this tank size. If you want alot of different species, then I would try an all male tank - but you only want one male of each species.

It's very doubtful that your yellow labs are Kakusa. :wink:


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## holliewood1977 (Feb 18, 2009)

Ok... so I need to clean my tank more often? It is crystal clear and looks clean? Thats why I only do water changes once a month? Now with this white stuff on the bottom I am doing it more often to get rid of it??

And you mentioned it being understocked? Do you mean I need more fish? I didn't want to over crowd the tank. I hate the pet store I bought these at? They don't seem to know anything?? I have had these fish together for about 6 months? And just in the past week I have been having problems. They are killing one by one off. Its weird. Normally it is the weak or sick fish they will go after... in this case thats not whats happening. I want to figure it out before anymore die. I have had 4 die now since I posted my first guestion.

Another of the females that turn into males are going through her change? Could that make her more aggressive? I didn't notice that with the first one that changed??

I do have a water testing kit but it is the strip set... so I will go out and buy the one you suggested.

Thankyou for all your help.

Oh ya.... and if I were to add some fish when I get all these problems solved what do you suggest I add... or what kind of fish I mean???


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

> so I need to clean my tank more often? It is crystal clear and looks clean? Thats why I only do water changes once a month?


Yes, you need to do water changes more often. Waste settles into the substrate - the tank will look "crystal clear", but it isn't. This is especially important if you aren't checking water parameters on the tank frequently.



> And you mentioned it being understocked? Do you mean I need more fish? I didn't want to over crowd the tank.


Yes, you need more fish. 6 fish in a 4 foot tank are only going to focus on fighting with each other. However, you really don't need to keep the kenyi in this small of a tank...And you need to make sure they aren't ill before adding more fish. With adequate filtration on the tank and careful stocking choices, you could have 20 mbuna in there. (The overstocking actually tends to calm the aggression in the tank rather than add to it. One fish doesn't get overly picked on as they do with less fish.)



> Another of the females that turn into males are going through her change? Could that make her more aggressive? I didn't notice that with the first one that changed??


Females don't "turn into males". Dimorphic species all look like females initially. As they mature, they take on their male colouration. And, yes, a male kenyi is going to be a problem in a tank this small once they begin to sexually mature - especially if you have two male kenyi.



> Oh ya.... and if I were to add some fish when I get all these problems solved what do you suggest I add... or what kind of fish I mean???


Once you remove the kenyi and ascertain that your fish are not ill, you can add some more fish. If you try adding more fish with the kenyi in the tank, it probably will not go well. He's going to attack anything new that comes into the tank.

And, in an established tank, you always want to try to add more than one fish at a time, so they don't focus too much on the new intruder.

But, you always want to quarantine fish before adding them to your main tank!

Why don't you check with some of the retailers listed on here, or post an ad in the trading post for your area, once you decide what you want to add to the tank?


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## holliewood1977 (Feb 18, 2009)

Ok. Well I bought 4 Kenyi. The pet store said 3 of them were female and one was male. The three female where blue and the male orange/yellow. Then the largest female or blue one starting getting lighter and soon after was orange just like the male. A few months later they killed him. Now the second blue one is turning and he killed the last female. So there are two males left. There are still 3 other fish in there they they seem not to bother. i guess my question is should I get rid of both of those males?

Sorry I have so many guestions?? I just want to understand this as much as possible.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Yes, you need to get rid of both of the kenyi. Even one of them can destroy the harmony in your tank.

And, you also need to be very careful with your stocking from here on in.

The johanni, yellow labs and socolofi will be okay in this tank size.

But now, you need to decide what you want from the tank...

Do you want some breeding? Or do you want one of this and one of that for alot of different species?

If you're interested in breeding, then you should stick with the 3 species that you have (johanni, yellow lab, and socolofi) and enlarge your groups for those 3 species. In a tank this size, you do not want more than one male of each species, but each male will require 3 or 4 females. This is because of their aggression levels - a male will quickly kill a lone female of his species, and will not tolerate another male of his species in a smaller size tank. (The only way you could have more than one male of a species in this size tank is to have a single species breeding group - but this would mean getting rid of two of the 3 species you have.)

These fish are very territorial and highly aggressive. They claim portions of the "footprint" of the tank as their own. The larger the floor space of the tank is, the more species you can comfortably keep. In a 55G tank, I wouldn't recommend more than 3 species, preferably 2.

Or, if you aren't at all interested in breeding and just want a nice tank with alot of different fish, you would need to go with an all male set up. This means you would have to make sure they are all male, as one female will cause total chaos. It also means you can only have one male of each species, as more than one would also cause alot of aggression in the tank. Personally, I would rather try this set up with male peacocks and smaller haps rather than mbuna. (The fish you have are mbuna.) So, this would basically mean starting all over again.

Does this help you at all? I know all this info can be a bit overwhelming when you just want to have a nice looking aquarium, but believe me, these fish are well worth the extra effort!


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## holliewood1977 (Feb 18, 2009)

Yes this does help!! Thankyou so much.

I was wondering if I could send you some pictures of the fish I have? I looked them up on the internet and tried to match them the best I could. Not sure if they are exactly right. But would like to make sure before I start getting rid of some and adding others. I would really appreciate it.

Also... any ideas on an easier way to tell the difference between male and female? If I wanted to get all males from a bunch of different species it seem like it would be hard to do. The pet store I bought these from told me I had 3 females and 1 male. Ends up being 3 males and 1 female?? Maybe it's just the pet store??

Well again thankyou so much for all your help.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

If you aren't sure about the species, post some pics in the Unidentified Cichlids forum here. Lots of real smart people here when it comes to identifying your fish.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You can put the pics in the unidentified folder for confirmation. The species you've come up with are pretty common in the hobby, so you're probably right, but I would confirm it, too!

Monomorphic species are your yellow labs and socolofi (Pindani). Monomorphic means that both sexes look the same. These are impossible to sex without being able to vent them, and they must be close to sexual maturity for this method to be accurate. So, unless your LFS is taking the fish out and examining their genital area before bagging them, they can't tell you what sex they are. :wink:

Dimorphic species are your johanni. All take on the female appearance until they mature, and then the males will take on male colouration. This _should_ make things easier, but it doesn't always. You can easily pick out a dominant male, but subdominant males will take on female colouration in an effort to fly under the dominant males radar, and it can be quite deceiving.

The best thing you can do when buying young fish is to ask the LFS if you can do some exchanges as you are able to sex them. Behaviour wise, they will let you know who can stay and who needs to go! (Having an extra tank - even a smaller one - can come in handy when they start to mature. By pulling dominant males of a species to the smaller tank, this will allow another male to colour up so you can tell who is who!)

Meanwhile, practice venting... :thumb:


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## holliewood1977 (Feb 18, 2009)

Well!! haha I pulled both males out of the tank and separated them and I can already tell a difference. Those little guys are aggressive! Its weird that I didn't have a problem wit them before this?

I've decided that I am only going to buy fish froma pet store that knows what they are doing... and also CARE about what they are selling to people. I have a had a fish tank for many years... and have never had this kinda trouble? But I only had one species at a time. Like Tiger Oscars... and so on. I am sure learning alot though.

I posted some pic's of my fish under the unidentified cichlids page. Maybe you could take a look? I have had some replies but it seems like everyone has a different opinion on what two of the fish are? Not sure if you can help?

Anyways... now I only have 3 fish left. So I think I will stick with them and there species? Do you think that is a good idea? Those three seem to get along fine. Not sure what will happen when I add others?

Again thankyou so much for all your help... and hopefully I will soon have a healthy happy tank full of beautiful fish.... that get along!! haha


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

> Its weird that I didn't have a problem wit them before this?


You won't have problems usually until they start to sexually mature.

I'll take a look at the other thread, but I might not be anymore help!

When you do start to add fish, add more than one at a time, so the older fish don't pick on one too much.


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