# 'Aequidens' rivulatus



## jgentry (Jul 3, 2008)

I found a one of these guys at a local store and picked one up. I am only familier with the gold saum, does anyone have any adults of these guys. If so could you please post pictures and give me any inside info you have on them. Right now mine is about 3inches and is not showing a lot of color yet but looks like he's got some good potentail. How do they compare to the gold saum?

Thanks,
J.D.


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## fishyfishyfish (May 8, 2008)

jgentry said:


> I found a one of these guys at a local store and picked one up. I am only familier with the gold saum, does anyone have any adults of these guys. If so could you please post pictures and give me any inside info you have on them. Right now mine is about 3inches and is not showing a lot of color yet but looks like he's got some good potentail. How do they compare to the gold saum?
> 
> Thanks,
> J.D.


I'm new to owning these fish but i can honestly say they are the nicest fish i've ever owned

I always thought the gold saum was the same species & the blue acara was the one that was mistaken for the gt but im not sure??

Heres a couple of pics of my pair - male 7" female 5"

A couple of observations of my fish -

They are mildly aggressive towards each other, but apparently this is also how they act when in breeding mode so maybe getting some babies soon

They are fussy eaters when it comes to dry foods but if it wiggles they dont thjink twice, all live food is welcome, i've tried hikari gold, predator & staple but it seems to be the gold that they prefer and they chew and spit out the others.

Anyways pls share pics or advice cos were all learning :thumb:


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Aquidens Rivulatus and Aquidens sp. Gold saum are two different species . Gold saums are the fish commonly sold as Green Terror . there's been a few debates as to whether gold and silver saums should even be called GTs . 
for the most part these two species can be cared for the same as any other large SA. Temperments are similar as well between the Rivulatus and Saums . Watch out as they get big cause thats when they will begin to live up to their common name. 
If you have a true GT consider yourself lucky as they are not very common in the hobby anymore.


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## jgentry (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for the responses. I think mine is definately different then yours in the pictures you posted. Mine looks like the Aequidens` rivulatus picture in the species profiles. The store I got him from is pretty reliable and they had it lable with it's scientific name. I see something misslabled every now and again in there but the store owner will tell you if he's comfortable with the dealer they came froms labling of the fish. He's very honest. Mine has less orange on it's tail, but it's still young and will probably color up a lot. Mine currently is eating great. He loves color bites, mysis shrimp, blood worms, and freeze dried krill. He's really active and loves to show my green texas and pair of sal's whos boss. I'll try to get some pictures posted of him this week. I have a neighbor that has a samll true green terror (I think, the silversuam is the true one?). It's not showing a lot of color yet either.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Silver Saums are not true GTs, they are another Aeqidens sp. That's where IDing these guys gets sticky when you have three different species (two of which are considered undescribed) all called Green Terror. Silver Saums look identicle to Gold saums except for the fin edging being white rather than orange. The saums also are yellowish to blue in color depending on mood where true GTs are green . Like I said true GTs are a hard find . Post some pics , that'll help positively ID your terror.


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## fishyfishyfish (May 8, 2008)

jgentry said:


> Thanks for the responses. I think mine is definately different then yours in the pictures you posted. Mine looks like the Aequidens` rivulatus picture in the species profiles. The store I got him from is pretty reliable and they had it lable with it's scientific name. I see something misslabled every now and again in there but the store owner will tell you if he's comfortable with the dealer they came froms labling of the fish. He's very honest. Mine has less orange on it's tail, but it's still young and will probably color up a lot. Mine currently is eating great. He loves color bites, mysis shrimp, blood worms, and freeze dried krill. He's really active and loves to show my green texas and pair of sal's whos boss. I'll try to get some pictures posted of him this week. I have a neighbor that has a samll true green terror (I think, the silversuam is the true one?). It's not showing a lot of color yet either.


Is that your polite way of saying ' i have the wrong fish' and was conned by the dealer?? :-?


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## fishyfishyfish (May 8, 2008)

Joels fish said:


> Silver Saums are not true GTs, they are another Aeqidens sp. That's where IDing these guys gets sticky when you have three different species (two of which are considered undescribed) all called Green Terror. Silver Saums look identicle to Gold saums except for the fin edging being white rather than orange. The saums also are yellowish to blue in color depending on mood where true GTs are green . Like I said true GTs are a hard find . Post some pics , that'll help positively ID your terror.


As were on the subject, the pics above are my fish - so could anyone please identify them??? - are they green terrors or gold saums or something else.

Thankyou :thumb:


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

> As were on the subject, the pics above are my fish - so could anyone please identify them??? - are they green terrors or gold saums or something else.


Fishy yours are gold saums , and nice ones too :thumb: . Like I said even though you bought yours as a GT , A. rivulatus is hardly ever seen in a LFS because they went for a long while without being imported or only rarely imported. They are starting to show up again though :thumb: . Saums on the otherhand are everywhere, and are commonly sold as A. Rivulatus even though they are not.


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## jgentry (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm not trying to say you were conned at all fishy, I'm just trying to figure out if I got what was said I got. Your gold saums are great looking fish. I would be thrilled if mine turned out to look like that. But I definately have a different variety then yours and I was hoping someone had some pics of adults of my variety of Aquidens but it appears to be a little rarer from what Joels Fish is saying, but I don't know. Most of what I've seen in stores are gold saums like yours, but most are not nearly as nice looking as yours.


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## jgentry (Jul 3, 2008)

Here's some pic of the green terror I picked up along with a picture or my male Sal and EBJD. All of them are about 3-31/2 inches[/img]


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Jgentry you have a gold saum, possibly female but I can't say 100% from the photo. I was looking at the profiles here and , and it looks to me like the fish that is pictured as a silver saum and the one pictured as Rivulatus are the same fish. By that I mean the same individual. Also it lists silver saum as the true GT which seems to be in contradiction with the info I have read :? . Man it sure would be nice to put this whole true vs false GT thing to rest once and for all.


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## fishyfishyfish (May 8, 2008)

Could you please post a pic of the differing species because whenever i google green terror or gold saum the same pictures appear.

Plus i read that they are geographical varieties of the same species???


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## fishyfishyfish (May 8, 2008)

jgentry said:


> Here's some pic of the green terror I picked up along with a picture or my male Sal and EBJD. All of them are about 3-31/2 inches[/img]


That just looks like a younger version of my female, that other fish looks stunning though - wanna swap??? :thumb:


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## jgentry (Jul 3, 2008)

So Fishy, your female gold saum looked like mine when it was younger? If so that would be very cool, I would be pleased if mine ends up looking anything like your 2 that you posted. At what size/age did yours really start coloring up? My other young fish are starting to show a lot of color. The electric blue jack sure is a slow grower though. It eats like a pig, but just doesn't grow much. I guess almost everything getting sold as a green terror now is a gold saum with a few silvers thrown in from time to time. I guess you can't trust fish importers/breeders to give you correct names for a lot of these fish, I still like mine though.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Jeff Rapps had (and may still) a fish he was calling a true GT.Looked like the real deal to me, as the fish didn't look like a saum and was actually green. there is so much debate and contradictory info on GTs right now it's not even funny.
Since everyone else is posting pics of their GTs here's mine . the pics a little old but I haven't taken new ones for a while.


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## jgentry (Jul 3, 2008)

Nice looking fish Joels Fish. How old/what size is the GT in the picture? Nice looking Sal too.


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## fishyfishyfish (May 8, 2008)

Joels fish said:


> Jeff Rapps had (and may still) a fish he was calling a true GT.Looked like the real deal to me, as the fish didn't look like a saum and was actually green. there is so much debate and contradictory info on GTs right now it's not even funny.
> Since everyone else is posting pics of their GTs here's mine . the pics a little old but I haven't taken new ones for a while.


Nice fishe - judging by the pics it appears we all have the same species - so have we been conned or are they real gt's.

There is probably that little difference in the fish (if any at all) that it really doesn't matter,

Not that i'm getting obsessed or stressed out or anything about it!!!!!!!!! :x

Right... i'm off to pick a fight with a small person :roll:


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## fishyfishyfish (May 8, 2008)

jgentry said:


> So Fishy, your female gold saum looked like mine when it was younger? If so that would be very cool, I would be pleased if mine ends up looking anything like your 2 that you posted. At what size/age did yours really start coloring up? My other young fish are starting to show a lot of color. The electric blue jack sure is a slow grower though. It eats like a pig, but just doesn't grow much. I guess almost everything getting sold as a green terror now is a gold saum with a few silvers thrown in from time to time. I guess you can't trust fish importers/breeders to give you correct names for a lot of these fish, I still like mine though.


It was a guess actually - sorry - i've only had mine 1 month

But it looks very similar plus all the description on all the different hobby websites describe our varieties as GT's so i'm happy with mine.

It doesn't matter anyway cos they are lovely fish & there isn't much to beat the striking appearance of these fish.

:thumb:


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

This is the pic froms Rapps website: http://www.tangledupincichlids.com










The differance is with the scale pattern colors. In the 4 saums (gold, silver, red, dwarf), the center of the scale is dull, it's the outer edges that have the color. In _'Aequindens' rivulatus'_, that pattern is reversed with the center of the scale having the color and the outer edges being dull.

That said, all the fish posted on this thread so far appear to be Gold Saums.


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## jgentry (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for the info Dwarf Pike. That very helpful in determining the difference. Mine is not a Rivulatus then for sure. My neighbor does have a true Rivulatus then though. We just looked at it and it has a dull outline on it's scales and a bright center. I'll try to get some pics of it later and post them. :thumb:


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

jgentry, 
He was about 6months old in that pic (or rather I had him for 6 months) , and he was around 6 inches or so long then. Now he's more like 7.5-8 inches but not much of a hump but he does have a really nice long trailer to his dorsal fin.
Fishy,
I can say for myself that I wasn't conned when I bought mine because I knew what I was getting. Infact the Tank at the Petsmart I got him at was acturally labeled Aequidens sp. which was surprising for them. I did know that it was a saum though and I got him because I like them and that's what really matters.Oh and yes I still refer to mine as a GT because It's still the most common name for them and most people recognize that over Gold saum and the like.

P.S. It's not that we can't trust our importers and breeders, it's knowing which ones to trust. However even with the best of them stuff happens.


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## jgentry (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for the help everyone. After reading everyones postes and looking at the species profiles here I think I have a gold saum, but if you go to the species profiles

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/r ... ?genus=227

they have a picture of Rivulatus that conflicts with the one posted by Dwarfpike. It has dark in the middle of it's scales and bright on the edges. I cannot tell from the picture if it's tail and top fin is outlined with white or orange. It is listed as a false green terror. Then if you look at the picture for the Silversaum it looks like the one posted by dwarfpike and this website is calling it a true green terror.

Hey Joel's Fish, did your green terror look like mine when it was little? I ask because all of the gold saums I see pictures have a lot more orange on there outline were the Rivulatus pictured on this site has a rather thin outline. Will mine develope more orange as it grows?

Thanks,
J.D.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

The blue acara group is a mess right now (green terrors are included in this group). Even having posted the differances, I myself have a hard time telling them apart within seeing older ones side by side. Even reliable references mix the various green terror species up frequently. The fact that 'green terror' is a common name for at least 5 differant 'species' and/or color forms (possibly even more, debatable depending on the poster/forums/sites) deffinately makes things harder.


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## jgentry (Jul 3, 2008)

Indeed, there seems to be a lot of contradicting info on these guys all over the web that makes them pretty hard to ID. I'll just grow my little guy up and see how it turns out.


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## fishyfishyfish (May 8, 2008)

jgentry said:


> Indeed, there seems to be a lot of contradicting info on these guys all over the web that makes them pretty hard to ID. I'll just grow my little guy up and see how it turns out.


It's all a kerfuffle really, and i think it's more the case that 'if i had gone to buy a gold saum and ended up with a green terror i would be equally unhappy.

So it's irrelevant really and from what i've read they are all the same fish just sub species / geographical varieties.

But i think we have the besty looking species of the bunch.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I'd be estatic if I bought a gold saum that ended up being _Aequindens rivulatus_! 

But yes, quite the mess. Personally, I think we are dealing with 3 differant species: _Aequindens rivulatus_ as one, the full sized saums (gold, silver, red) as a second with regional color variants, and the dwarf saum (not the short bodied one).

But then, I didn't think there were 4 differant convict species either, so we could be looking at 5 or more species. But it's all moot until the scientists get in there and first describe the genus, then each of the species with.

All that matters is that you enjoy the fish you own though. :thumb: [/i]


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

> All that matters is that you enjoy the fish you own though. [/i]


True true, I couldn't have said it any better  .


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

> Personally, I think we are dealing with 3 differant species: Aequindens rivulatus as one, the full sized saums (gold, silver, red) as a second with regional color variants, and the dwarf saum (not the short bodied one).


Yup agree to an extent. The extent being that I didn't know there was a red variant or a legit dwarf saum.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

The reds are deffinately the rarest, just substitute the gold edging for red. There are tiny differances in the body pattern as well, but not enough (I think) to warrent a differant species.

The dwarf is a matter of some debate. It orginally showed up in the states early 90's. Most just believed it was one of the first hormoned fish, as even 3" males showed huge nauchal humps and great color. They never got bigger than 5" or so. But supposedly they were all imported from SA and not the far east. But since they haven't really been since again since then, I am thinking perhaps they were from the far east ... but then you would think fish on hormones would get bigger, not smaller.


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## hakkadeimos (Apr 28, 2010)

here is another pic of a Andinoacara stalsbergi (real green terror) 
[/img]









and its not that you were conned ... the whole industry has been confused with these fish so much in the past that it has taken till now to actually give the real GTs a diffrent scientific name ... they used to be lumped in to the same grp as a silver saums and thats where all the confusion came from ... silver saums got the green terror name and thus it was passed to the gold saums too


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## hakkadeimos (Apr 28, 2010)

and i went back thru and saw you guys were a little confused with GTs scientific names so ill post them here

Andinoacara stalsbergi "real GT"

Andinoacara rivulatus Silver Saum

Andinoacara sp. Gold Saum

and if you truly want to learn exactly what the diffrence is between them

MusilovÃƒÂ¡, Zuzana & Ingo Schindler & Wolfgang Staeck, 2009, "Description of Andinoacara stalsbergi sp. N. (Teleostei: Cichlidae: Cichlasomatini) from Pacific coastal rivers in Peru, and annotations on the Phylogeny of the genus" Vertebrate Zoology, 59 ( 2) 2009, pp. 131-141. 131-141.

have fun its in german btw


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I have it in english as well as the paper that desrcibes _Andinoacara_ ... :wink:

But this thread is very old, well before either paper was released so we didn't know there was a 3rd green terror at the time or that _A. rivulatus_ has never been imported. On another thread Alf Strasburg actually came on and sorted it out.

Oh, and according to Alf, the _A. rivulatus_ has gold trimmed fins, not silver. :thumb:


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## hakkadeimos (Apr 28, 2010)

yeah i just now noticed the dates on the previous postings .. oh well i guess i was up real late when i found that post

oh and i know german very well so i never looked for a english version


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

No worries, we've all done it before!! Usually either when first joining, or early in the morning before the 5th or so cup of coffee. :lol:


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## PeterUK (Sep 16, 2008)

So thse are Andinoacara sp. Gold Saum ?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Sure are. I believe they are both males and would like to know the size of the larger one at the rear.


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## PeterUK (Sep 16, 2008)

Definately both males, WW3 recently broke out in the tank sohave now been separated.
Larger male at the back is approx 9 1/2 inches TL.


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## JCsicklidnewbie (Mar 8, 2010)

Can someone tell me if I have GTs---here is the flickr link...you can either scroll down and check them out of click the box on the right (middle) labeled GT Babies

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?saved=1

thanks


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## PeterUK (Sep 16, 2008)

Do you mean this one ?










Looks like a juv GT to me.


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## JCsicklidnewbie (Mar 8, 2010)

yeah I have two---look the same one just has less orange than the other...I was concerned after looking at other pics of baby GTs..mine don't have a lot of color at the moment....

thanks


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