# Selecting A Good Troph!!



## irish5 (Jun 19, 2009)

I am looking to get some trophs. The ones I like Red Rainbow - Kasanga, Blue Rainbow - Chaitta, and Ilangi Nkamba Bay - in all honesty I would be fine with all of them in my tank. Maybe one I will have them all in my tank lol lol . I was just wondering which one is going to be the most colorful to add to the tank. Without seeing any pictures of those three kinds. I have a choice of wild or F1s of the Red Rainbows and Blue Rainbows - I would be able to get few of the wilds then the F1s. Any ideas or suggestions would be great thanks. I might try to get all three just in smaller groups- is this a good idea


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I would pic your fav and get just that one (Mixing Tropheus is harder than not mixing and the ones you list will or at least have crossed). First time with Troph then I would stick to just F1 or Tank bred from one source and get all you want plus a few in one go to a cycled tank. They are a terror to add to and some do not grow and have to be removed. Ones that already know each other settle and show less aggression than mixing groups. Saved you money on the WC but maybe added to the difficulty of getting a decent number? If your tank is big enough for Tropheus then it is big enough to start with 24 young F1s or any good TB (The best way to start) :thumb:

I would not worry about inbreeding it is not as big a problem as them attacking strangers and mixing bugs from more than one source. It is especially hard to mix TB with WC.

For what crosses with what it is best to go back to the formally described species and ignor the Sp red sp black moorri division.

So you can mix without fear
Tropheus moorii ((includes sp red sp black and sp Ikola)
with Tropheus annectens
with Tropheus duboisi
with Tropheus brichardi (includes sp. 'mpimbwe')

but as only duboisi and moorii are easily available Tropheus then that one would be the only mix I would recommend if you are determined to mix two types.
The dubs usually out breed and suppress the breeding and colour of the moorii in many cases.

All three (or four I will explain later) you list are very colourful types but for constant colour of all the individuals I would pick Red rainbow. For the best individual male showing the most pleasing colour then both the other two are cracking variants and hard to choose I think.
I would go Chaitika (I assume you really mean Chaitika and not Chaitta which does not exist as far as I know) , because Ilangi are very expensive here (not sure what they cost near you) Nkamba Bay is actually another very attractive variant but true yellow Ilangi come from just outside this bay.


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## Vucko (May 9, 2009)

I suggest that you read everything in the library about trophs. There is a good article about the pros and cons of wild caught vs tank bred.

In my case I recently bought a colony of wild caught red kachese, 5 males and 10 females. When I got the fish, two of the females were holding, I have 15 instant babies, the adults have settled in and are breeding already and they have excellent color. Because I bought a colony, everything is relatively stable all things considered.

With tank raised juvies there is always that possibility that you will not end up with a good ratio of males to femalesunless you buysubstantially more than you really need, then you have grow out, culling etc.

I think there are merits to both options. It is a personal choice depending on what your preference is, I don't think one is better than the other. But like anything else, we all have our opinions. That's what makes it interesting.

good luck


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## irish5 (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions - I am very happy to have any suggestions. That is what makes it interesting. Thanks again!! I like all the fish I listed so to some extent I'm looking for the best solution too. "More" color with the wilds or "less" color but more fish (F1s) in my tank. So that is going into my decision too.


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## myjohnson (Dec 28, 2007)

go rare.....you will be happy.


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## irish5 (Jun 19, 2009)

I am am going to go with the Red or Blue Rainbows and the F1s. I like that sugestion as well. I want more fish and a bigger colony. I think that is why my Troph Dubs (I only had 14 - 3 have died) are not making it!! I think I need to add more of them too. So I will be on the search for those too. I think I am going to add about 20 more of those. I need to go cheap for now until I get and established colony. It could the dominant male is killing all of these too. So we will see!! I would love move suggestions.

Can anybody explain to me what a trio means - does it mean only 3 fish from a troph group like the red rainbows - then is it a male and 2 females


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Go with the red rainbows, all the blue rainbows I have seen are very bland. Make sure you see the parent fish first and don't be afraid to not buy them if the parents don't look nice (it's your money). Yes, a trio is 1m 2f but.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

but this is not a very good way of keeping Tropheus. You need a bunch. **** I have seen folk new to Tropheus luck in and get a colony of 20 WC female heavy and succeed first time. I have also seen folk spend a fortune on 20-40 WC and lose the lot. It is pretty rare for folk to lose all 24 TB.
I have even heard of one girl who bought 3 WC tropheus they turned out to be 2 males and 1 female dubs and they lived well and bred well in a 42" long tank with N.brichardi.
But I stick with my original advice, unless you are real lucky and can get a group of about 15 WC tank matured and fully quarantined for six weeks in the dealers tank and fully well and breeding, 5 males with 10 females (oh how I want a deal like that here in the Uk) then TB are I think the best cheap option.


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## irish5 (Jun 19, 2009)

24TRophs
Are you saying it is better to get wild caught - if i can get 4 males to 9 females (for sure) or more f1s (but then i have to vent them - i am not how to do that) - let me know thanks

Love the advice


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

It depends on the source and if there are any guarantees to replace fish lost within the first three weeks. In most cases I think it is a big gamble for anyone but with the biggest potential rewards.

Big WC Tropheus are a bigger gamble but with potential quicker rewards too.
When buying WC you need to do some research as to the reliability of the souse and the risk you are taking. It is not clearly a bad way but it is I think higher risk than the slow cheaper way with F1s or any TB.

There is not too much reason to vent the TBs the ones that are a pain in the tank are pretty clear as they become about 3" (usually male but not always) and the ones that do not grow well are pretty obvious too. The advantage TB at about 2" is mainly cost. If the market where you are is anything like it is here TB are about 1/5 the cost of good WC.

There is also the suspicion that may Tropheus labeled as WC are really African pond bred. This does not really affect there survivability or hardyness (they may well be easier to acclimatise to tanks) but might affect you if you want to sell the young as a true and pure F1.


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## irish5 (Jun 19, 2009)

I can get about 4 males to 9 females for about $320 - I can get about thirty F1s for about the same price. I am looking at some of the suppliers on the internet - i think I have seen your name on the site

Thanks


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Those WC if big sound very cheap to me and if good from a reliable source then I would be tempted by them. The size is a big factor too. Breeding size WC are often pricier than small WC.
Why are WC fish in the UK about double the price of the ones in the US we are after all closer to the source than you guys.


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## irish5 (Jun 19, 2009)

What do you mean by a good size? I think the wilds I am looking at is like between 2.5 and 3.5. Is that a good size?

Thanks for the help!!


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

That would come under the title small WC here so the price seems more sensible.
Or as medium where the dealer sells small, medium and large.
Beware of pond bred at this size being sold as WC.
But WC are I hear easier to catch and export at a low size.

We can get them at about 3-4" and already breeding but they (I hear) seem (and mine were) more fragile and harder to get to survive but are already or closer to breeding when you get them.

With WC size there is an advantage with small (survivability and price) and a disadvantage (longer to get breeding).

Large at about 4" advantage (nearly ready or already breeding) and disadvantages (higher price, greater difficulty getting them to settle together in small tanks)

Hard to know which is better.
The one that works for you is always the best, your Tropheus may be better acclimatised before you get them than here, or worse, so it is not possible for me to say which is best for you.


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## irish5 (Jun 19, 2009)

I know it is impossible for you to tell. But the seller gets great reviews of all of his fish. So it seems to be a good place to buy from. I think I am going to go with the WC biggers ones. I hear when you are getting them transported it is better to get them bigger. They seem to handle to trip better than the little ones do.

The reviews have been and now I hope I get great fish from him!!


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Just one more thing from me. Ignore all reviews of other fish except Tropheus (except maybe Petrochromis). These are I think more difficult to transport and get tank ready for those in the hobby. Good luck. If going for WC of any size have your bloat and pre bloat strategy well worked out and all medications ready on your shelf, I hope you do not need them. (Ask your dealer about this too) (Also ask about quarantine period and treatments they have had and how long they have been healthy and have been kept untreated. Have they been kept for six weeks post treatments without further losses?) (should be a min of six weeks for you to be sure they are healthy, sadly few do this) Prophylactic treatment with antibiotic soaked food as there first light feed after arrival to your tanks seems to help for many too. :thumb:

If you can ensure you get healthy large WC fully tank conditioned well Tropheus that already know each other from your supplier then Tropheus keeping can be a dream of easy to keep and breed fish. These are prob worth a fortune.

If you get ill or poorly conditioned (or cheap) ones, then it can be a nightmare with no easy answers, trust me.


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## irish5 (Jun 19, 2009)

I am looking forward to the advantage!! I hope I am up to the task really!!


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## irish5 (Jun 19, 2009)

Sometimes i make myself laugh at my own post.


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