# Unusual erratic behavior, need help



## davegius (Nov 27, 2007)

My tank is a 150g that has been running for several years(haps/peacocks). 79 degrees, Ph 7.6. nitrites 0, nitrates 15-20, weekly water changes of 50%. Surface agitation includes one overhang box and output from the wetdry, a spray bar from a cannister filter, and two powerheads near the top of the tank.
I just recently noticed two of my fish (35 or so total) with ich like spots on them so I treated the whole tank with ichguard 2. I have been doing this for two days now. The spots seem to have gone away a little so far, but the fish are acting differently now. Some of them are flashing, and a few of them are swimming oddly, kind of like they are shimmying, or maybe trying to shake something off. They also seem to be a bit more lethargic than normal. Everyone is still eating fine for the most part. I have been doing a 20% water change the last two days as well. 
I have just added about 5 fish to this tank that were quarantined for about a week and all appeared to be fine. Also, I just started using Prime as a water conditioner on this tank rather than my old conditioner; but I did the same on my other tanks and none of them are having the same problems.

Is this behavior indicative of anything other than ich like symptoms or should I be keeping an eye out for something else? Also, should I continue to use the ichguard 2?

Thanks in advance!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

Well first of all: are you certain it was/is ich? 
I don't know what the directions state for the ich med you used but generally speaking 2 days is NOT long enough to rid your tank of ich. Check out the article linked below for more information on ich. Understanding the parasites life cycle helps in understanding how to treat it.

The Seachem Prime is not the problem.

Are the fish flashing after a water change or all the time? Do their symptoms/behavior change at all directly after a water change? You said they were a bit more lethargic--
_are they: _
hanging at the bottom? Hiding? Hanging up at the top? Are they all doing the same thing? Any fish gasping? Does their lethargic behaviour stop at feeding time?

The odd shimming swimming behavior may just be normal cichlid swimming. Adding new fish has changed the tank dynamics and there may be some jocking going on for territory and spawning rights.

Please get back with more info

Robin

A week is better than nothing but you really need to quarantine for at least 30 days.


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## davegius (Nov 27, 2007)

I have been using the ich treatment for the fourth day now, along with 20% daily water changes. I can only see what looks like ich spots on two fish, none of the others. More of the fish appear to be flashing now and more often, before and after the daily water changes. Prior to the symptoms coming up they might have flashed every once in a while. No one is gasping, but some of them are swimming "oddly" to put it best. Kind of like they are jerking back and forth to shake something off; definitely not the usual mating kind of shimmying or a dominance type thing. One of the larger fish seems to be hanging near the top more than usual, but hes not gasping. Also, I have noticed more white poo lately, but not stringy, its the normal size, just whitish. But they all come to the top when its feeding time.

I have included pics of the fish with the spots. It is hard to get a good picture of it, as even very clear photos from the wrong angle do not display the spots. These were the best I could get for now, hopefully you can see them.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc17 ... 010673.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc17 ... 010675.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc17 ... 010676.jpg

I have been feeding just once a day to keep the nitrates down as much as possible and I have kept the lights off on the tank and in the room to keep them as docile and stress free as possible. Should I continue with the ich treatment? Any other suggestions?

Thanks!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Nice job on the pictures--still hard to say for sure that the white spots are definitely ick but that would be my first guess. If you look at them closely they really should look like grains of salt--not fuzzy which would indicate a bacteria or fungal infection.

Continue with the ick med as long as the package recommends and *fit in as many partial water changes as the medication schedule will allow.* Every time you do a partial water change/gravel siphoning you're removing the individual ick parasites. It won't cure the infestation all on its own but it will definitely slow them down and make it easier for the med to do its job.

Keep in mind that just because you've only seen the ich on some of your fish you can safely assume that ALL fish in the tank are infected. Ich can hide in the gills and when it's not on your fish it is in tank.

You can safely add aquarium salt to the tank to help the ick med do its job. Add 2-3 tablespoons per five gallons. Dissolve it first and add it gradually. Keep the salt levels consistant throughout any partial water changes.

The fish hanging at the top: is he choosing to position himself in a strong current--say the out flow of the filter? If so then he may be doing so in an effort to wash the parasites off. If he's just hanging at the top behind something or in a corner then its possible he's being harrassed by another fish.

What, if anything do you regurly add to their water besides the Prime?
The white feces may indicate something else is developing--what do you feed them?
What does the ickguard directions say about how long to treat for?

Robin


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## davegius (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for the replies Robin! The spots on the two fish that are visible definitely look more like salt than anything fuzzy, hopefully I have started treating before any of the other fish begin to show them. The ick treatment that I am using is Ickguard 2, and it "claims" that it will rid ick in 24 hours, which I know cant be true. However, today will be the fifth day that I have treated the whole tank at full dosage per the med's directions. How much longer should I continue to treat it before the spots go away if this is ick?

Other than the Prime, or some other conditioner, I do not put anything else in the water.
As for the fish swimming near the top, he is right in front of the filter outflow. No one picks on him, before or after this started.
For food, I feed primarily NLS Cichlid, with some krill pellets and frozen krill thrown in from time to time. I just started with a new brand of krill pellets recently though, so maybe that has something to do with the color?

I will get some salt tonight, per your ick article, and dose the tank. More will only need to be added when I change out water after the first time, correct?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

On the salt you want to dose the entire tank and then when you remove/add water during a water change you'll need to re-add the salt. 
So say if you have 3 tablespoons per five gallons (150 gallon tank that would be 90 tablespoons)and you remove 50 gallons during a partial water change then you would re-add 30 Tablespoons of salt with the new water. And when you re-add you only need to dissolve the salt first, you don't need to add it gradually.

On the Ickguard product: I honestly don't know if these products that claim success in just a few days actually work. But I would not treat the tank for any longer than the directions tell you to. If it doesn't work then I would run some fresh carbon in the filter, do a few water changes and switch over to the heat and salt or just salt treatment outlined in the ick article. I've used the heat and salt method myself the one time my fish had ick and worked beautifully. I do think there are good and effective meds out there for treating ick. You might do a search in this folder--use cichlidaholic's name for the author and see what you come up with. I know Kim has an ick med that she's used with great success. Sorry that I'm too lazy to go search for you 

Have you noticed that the fish have fewer spots?

Robin

And check my math on the salt! 150 gallon tank, 3 tablespoons per five gallons= 90 tablespoons (Comes out to about five and half CUPS of salt. 16 tablespoons=1 cup. )


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## davegius (Nov 27, 2007)

I am going to give the salt treatment a try, and I will raise the temperature to about 83 or so. I am doing a 50% water change tonight and will add about half the salt over the rest of the night, then the other half in the morning. Thanks again, hopefully things start to improve.


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