# Ich Resurgance and UV Light



## vealboy (Jul 27, 2009)

I had a bout with Ich in May, and was confident that after 21 days of treatment (with Malachite Green, higher temps, frequent gravel vacuuming, 50% WC every other day and increased oxygen) I did not see anymore evidence of Ich. So I reinstalled carbon filter, and reduced temp to 76-ish degrees, but kept the increased oxygen with powerhead, 2 bubblers, and allowing water from my HOB to fall into the tank with a lower water level.

Yesterday I spotted Ich on one of my Clown Loaches. So today after work, I will restart a course of malachite green with a gravel vacation and 50% WC.

Here is my question, if I installed a UV Light would that help prevent Ich, and or speed up eradicating Ich that is currently in my tank?

I have a 55 gal planted community tank with a Penguin 350 HOB, a powerhead, 2 air stones. 
4 Clown Loaches
2 Gold Gourami (1 male and 1 female) 
1 Guianacara Sphenozona 
1 Common Pleco 
2 Red Eye Tetra


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

A UV lamp would help kill water born organisms, but i think we need to figure out why the ich is back. It's pretty normal to have an outbreak when adding new stock, but if you haven't added any since the last outbreak...?

Of course, clown loaches seem particularly susceptible. Are they fighting among themselves at all? Are there sufficient hiding places for them?


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## vealboy (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi Triscuit,

Thanks for your response. The only thing I have added to the tank is some plants that I had in quarantine for 2 months in a fishless container.

I can only guess it (Ich) is back because it never really went away. One of the courses of treatment suggests raising the temp of the water to a sustained 86F combined with Ich meds and a thorough substrate cleaning. I know that my heater never got the water above 83F, so while the Ich may have been diminished, the tank was never Ich free. I bought a new heater today, the old one has become useless since it can only heat to one temperature (83F), regardless of the setting. I picked up a 200W Marineland Stealth Pro, so I am hoping that it will be more useful.

The Ich may have been back for some time. I have seen my Guianacara Sphenozona has been flashing occasionally, which I thought was a territorial domninance thing. It is hard to see the Ich on this fish since it is white in color. I only noticed the Ich on the Clown Loaches since they are orange and black.


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

For heat to have an effect on Ich the temp must be above 86 degrees. At temps below 86 degrees it just speeds up the lifecycle. At temps above 86 degrees it will actually kill some free swimming Ich but, most importantly, it can prevent the Ich lifecycle from completing (prevents the "tomont" from multiplying into hundreds of "theronts" ).

Clowns are notorious Ich Magnents as well as being notoriously intolerant of medications (the medications are as likely to kill the clowns as it is the Ich).

When treating clowns, salt cannot be used either.

The one thing that I know is safe to use with Clowns is Kordon Ich Attack. I would combine this medication with heat treatment, continuing the treatment for at least 1 week (2 preferred) after the last white spot is seen.

If you are going to house Clowns, I would consider Kordon Ich Attack as something you should always have on your shelf.


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Clown loaches will always get ich at 76 degrees. That fish needs 82-86 as a general range in captivity to thrive. Ich is always in your water. It will rarely affect a healthy fish that isn't compromised unless the amount of parasite gets out of control. Also, treating with malachite green on loaches is really dangerous.

All you need to do to kill ich is go to about 85 ferenheit. Any malawi cichlid can tolerate this and the clowns will love it.

Clown loaches shouldn't be with rift lake cichlids, period. There are synos that work just as well.


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

I'll disagree that "Ich is always in the water". It's just not physiologically possible. The only lifecycle of the parasite that could produce the appearance of dormancy is the trophont, attached to a fish (normally the gills) and that would only be at very cool temperatures (below 68 degrees).

Ich has to be introduced into an Aquarium. Once there, if be treated for 2 weeks beyond the date of the last appearance of white spots on your fish, it will be eradicated.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml


The Skeptical Aquarist said:


> The trophont or feeding stage attached to the host is also temperature-sensitive. At normal aquarium temperatures it matures in three to four days. At cooler temperatures the whole cycle can be slowed to more than five weeks, as the frustrated pond-keeper can tell you! Particularly resistant fishes can remain asymptomatic through several cycles of infestation and can act as "carriers" of Ich. What happens is, the free-swimming tomites attach most easily to the gills. The rest of the fishes' skin is protected by a sturdier mucus coating that's constantly renewed, sloughing off all kinds of minute organisms that might settle out. Trophonts that are newly-attached to the epidermis are invisibly small. So a "carrier" fish is simply one that is invisibly carrying Ich, perhaps on its gills. There is no "dormant" independent, long-term encysted life stage separate from a host fish for Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. This is useful to know. You will often hear to the contrary. Dr. Peter Burgess, who took Ichthyophthirius multifiliis as his Ph.D. subject at Plymouth University, mentioned among Ich "old wives' tales" that "It's present in all aquariums." "What utter rubbish" noted Dr. Burgess (in the Nov 2001 Practical Fishkeeping). Brits don't mince words.


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## vealboy (Jul 27, 2009)

I tend to agree that Ich is not always in the water.

Well I have begun a round of Ich treatment with malachite green and increased temps, the tank fluctuates 85-87F. I have been the temp upward to get it to this point. I did about a 50% WC with a good gravel vac, and I only used half the recommended Ich dosage for my tank size so the Clowns will better tolerate it.

I have the water level slightly lowered to allow the water from my HOB to fall into the water, I have a bubble wand and airstone going, and my powerhead pointed upward allowing for a nice current that ripples the water surface. I also removed some of the rocks that I had placed in the substrate to reduce dead spots in the water.

So now, I wait, watch and repeat the cleaning and meds in a day or so.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

I might try something other than Malachite green--not because it's doesn't work on ich but for some reason it didn't work for you. Maybe the product you have is past its shelf-life? But if you've already started with it then I'll just suggest keeping the lights off as Malachite is light sensitive.

Three or four years ago I bought clown loaches with ich--just didn't look close enough I guess :roll: . I treated them with raised heat and salt, (Heat: 84--Salt: 3tablespoons per five gallons) They had absolutely no problem with the treatment and yes we did get rid of the ich. They are healthy, large and happy in my 90 gallon with my C. Moorii, s.petricolas and one yellow lab. 
IMO, the bottom line with any medication is you need to watch the fish closely for any signs of stress that can be attributed to the med and be ready to take action, (water change), if necessary. As far as Clown Loaches being in with mbuna and other cichlids--sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think the loaches will do better if you have 3 or more of them but still you've got to add them to any tank carefully and be ready to swoop in and rescue them if need be.

The whole ich is always in the water subject is something that I've heard experienced aquarist argue on both sides. Personally I don't see how it's possible. Goldfish are routinely kept in cool water and so you would think they would constantly have ich. This is just my opinion but I think ich can seem to appear out of nowhere in a tank that normally has very frequent and large water changes and then, for whatever reason, suddenly doesn't. The reason I say this is that ich needs to establish itself in a tank before you actually start seeing it on the fish and if you're constantly removing large amounts water then you're going to keep their numbers down because every time you remove water/siphon the gravel you're removing some of the parasites. You may not notice a few spots on your fish and ich can and does hide in the fish's gills. 
But like I say, just my opinion. Luckily, whether ich is always in your water or not, (and I always wonder if is is it also in my shower??), there are many meds and treatment options to get rid of the little creeps.

Robin


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

And on using a half dose because of the loaches. I know we often hear that recommended but it's never made sense to me. It would seem that the parasites need a certain amount of the med to kill them regardless of who they are feeding on.

Robin


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## PepoLD (Dec 9, 2009)

Robin said:


> And on using a half dose because of the loaches. I know we often hear that recommended but it's never made sense to me. It would seem that the parasites need a certain amount of the med to kill them regardless of who they are feeding on.
> 
> Robin


+1

I lost a 6 batch and a 5 batch of botia clowns, following that "half dose..." recommendation

Id try the med that kmuda is talking about ( Kordon Ich Attack) and high temp, try to avoid salt as much as you can.. i've seen it helps them die faster :<


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

Kordon Ich Attack is confirmed Loach safe. I've used it. Even cured one of those heat resistent strains of Ich with it.

Aside from Heat and Salt, which is my first line treatment of choice against Ich, Kordon Ich Attack is the only Ich medication I will recommend, especially with scaleless fish, fish that do not withstand salt, and for planted tanks.


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## vealboy (Jul 27, 2009)

Wow, this is all very good stuff.

As to the half dosing of malachite green for loaches, and even tetra I am guessing that at half strength, you would just need to maybe treat twice as long? I also didnt know that malachite green is light sensitive. I will limit light during treatment. I will also look into the Kordon Ich Attack.

I have the water between 86 and 90 for the second day and there do not appear to be any signs of stress on fish or plants. If anything the loaches seem to be more active now in the warmer water. I have 4 of them all less than 6" long. I read on a Loach forum that loaches do not tolerate salt very well, so I have not added any salt, other than what is contained in API brand Stress Coat.

Prob do another water change later today and redose.


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

Treating twice as long with half the dose serves no extra benefit. The medication is either of sufficient strength or it's not. You would just be exposing your fish to carcinogens for twice the amount of time.

Which is another reason I recommend Kordon Ich Attack. It's natural and non-carcinogenic.... which is why it can be used on sensitive fish.

I said it before, I'll say it again, if you are going to keep Clown Loaches, Kordon Ich-Attack should be on your shelf.


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## vealboy (Jul 27, 2009)

Kmuda,

When I checked on my fish today, I saw my loaches eating my male Gold Gourami. Hard to say what caused the Gourami's death. Could have been the malachite green, or a victim of agrressive loaches. The loaches appear to be more aggressive at higher water temps. Last year they laid to waste many of the smaller fish in the tank. During this course of Ich treatment water temps have been 86-90.

So definitely need to do a water change, but before I do I need to run to the store for Kordon Ich Attack. I went to Kordon's website and read about their product and must say I was impressed. I also like that I don't need to have increased water temps, which may reduce loach aggressiveness.


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