# New Tank Disaster



## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

I am a new member and a new fish enthusiast. I thought I did all the research I needed to,but my ignorance has created problems for my fish.
I have a 60 gallon tank stocked with 18 peacocks and haps. I did not cycle the tank before adding my fish. They have been in the tank for 2.5 days. The ammonia level yesterday was 0.25 ppm. I did a 25% water change. This morning the ammonia level was 0.50 ppm. I have been treating the water with API Cycle, but the ammonia level continues to rise.

A friend has offered to give me his filter cartridge. He has a 10 gallon community tank stocked mostly with neon tetras. Here are my questions:

[*] Does it matter what type of fish he keeps?
[*] After I install his filter cartridge, should I continue to do 25% water changes on a daily basis until the ammonia level is acceptable, or should I let the BB do their job?
[*] After I install his filter cartridge, should I continue to use API Cycle, or let the BB do their job?

Any other helpful suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.


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## Sparrow19 (May 31, 2013)

I'm not expert, but just offering what little knowledge I have.

The filer from your friend would for sure help, and I don't think it matters what type of fish he has. But this isn't going to all of the sudden change it. You can also use decorations from his tank; rocks, plants etc. It all has the BB on it and will help that much more. There are some BB you can buy at LFS to help jump start it as well.

I'd continue to do water changes, and maybe more like 50% changes to keep the ammonia down.


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## POPSS (Aug 24, 2013)

if you are going to cycle fish in you need to be using a product such as seachem prime, dose for the size of tank, not water you are replacing. second you will need to be doing atleast 50% every other day. Prime lasts 48 hours and is good up to 1.0ppm chlorine, ammonia and nitrite, hence the every other day water change. well take up to 8 weeks to cycle tank up, unless you are on well water any uncondioned water will kill any seaded filter you put in. if you are on well water will still need to use the prime until tank is cycled. IMHO quick cycle and the type products are worthless.


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

POPSS said:


> if you are going to cycle fish in you need to be using a product such as seachem prime, dose for the size of tank, not water you are replacing. second you will need to be doing atleast 50% every other day. Prime lasts 48 hours and is good up to 1.0ppm chlorine, ammonia and nitrite, hence the every other day water change. well take up to 8 weeks to cycle tank up, unless you are on well water any uncondioned water will kill any seaded filter you put in. if you are on well water will still need to use the prime until tank is cycled. IMHO quick cycle and the type products are worthless.


Thanks! I will pick Prime on my way home and continue to do daily 25% water changes.
Is it the chlorine and chloramine that will kill the BB in the seeded filter? In other words, if I use Prime before putting in the seeded filter will the BB will survive?


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## POPSS (Aug 24, 2013)

yes,,, remember to dose for size of tank not water replacing, and better off doing 50% water change every other day, as stated prime lasts 48 hours/2 days, so need to do a water change every day as you will burn through allot of prime. do you have a fresh water test kit? such as API master fresh water test kit? if not should get one. no test strips they worthless. add the prime before adding the new water swish it around a bit and you good to go.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Feed very very lightly too. A little less food is far better for fish than a lot more ammonia. I'd honestly probably feed them every other day only what they can consume in 30 seconds until your BB catch up. It will take a little while though as a ten gallon tanks filter only has enough BB to deal with his fish load. The good news is that they can double in 24 hours time. Monitor your parameters closely and I second the 50% every other day water changes.


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

POPSS said:


> yes,,, remember to dose for size of tank not water replacing, and better off doing 50% water change every other day, as stated prime lasts 48 hours/2 days, so need to do a water change every day as you will burn through allot of prime. do you have a fresh water test kit? such as API master fresh water test kit? if not should get one. no test strips they worthless. add the prime before adding the new water swish it around a bit and you good to go.


I did a 25% water change yesterday. I will hold off on another water change (50%) until tomorrow. Can I add Prime (60g dose) today even though I am not doing a water change today?
I have the API master fresh water test kit and I use it every day.



k7gixxerguy said:


> Feed very very lightly too. A little less food is far better for fish than a lot more ammonia. I'd honestly probably feed them every other day only what they can consume in 30 seconds until your BB catch up. It will take a little while though as a ten gallon tanks filter only has enough BB to deal with his fish load. The good news is that they can double in 24 hours time. Monitor your parameters closely and I second the 50% every other day water changes.


I will cut back on the food until I see an improvement in water quality. It will be hard though because every time they see me, they press their snouts against the glass and closely follow my movements.


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## Sparrow19 (May 31, 2013)

Its hard not to feed, but best for them right now. More food you add, means the more poop they add, which is the ammonia. Not to mention what particles of food they don't eat. You could add a little prime now, but don't be wasteful. I'd also buy "API Stress Zyme" from LFS and use that as it has BB in it. Keep up the water changes and checking your levels.

I started a new 75G myself, let it run for a about a week doing the fishless cycle. I had added rocks and other things from my existing tank. Finally got impatient and added the fish. I didn't wait the several weeks as some will mention here and I was fine, all fish are doing great.


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## POPSS (Aug 24, 2013)

you can add prime if you can not do a water change today, but i would get on schedule soon as you can, and keep it till cycled. there should be no need for any other chems unless fish have a condition. barring that all they need is good clean water, and a good clean diet IMHO.

no offence to sparrow here. I have never used what she is suggesting, I just do not see the addition of chems unless there is a reason.


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## Pseudeotropheus BB (Jan 24, 2013)

What type of filtration are you running? If you currently are not using an air pump and sponge filter it would be a wise investment. BB needs surface area to grow and a sponge filter is an excellent inexpensive choice.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

I do love when people say that I did this or that and my fish are fine, look at them, no deaths. If you saw me on the street (you being anyone that doesn't try to do the best reasonable amount of work or patience for their pets) could you look at me and know that I am a diabetic? Could you see my son sleeping and know that he is deaf or has cerebral palsy? No you couldn't. That doesn't mean that there aren't problems there or damage that has been done. Do any of you have an old injury that you can feel when the weather changes? Consider your actions and try to do best by your pets. I'm not a tree hugger or overly sensitive mind you, but I can't stand the ignorance of people acting like there was no cost to their poor judgment or amount of patience. Did you ever have an unexpected death of a completely healthy looking fish that was strong in the tank and not stressed or beat up and ever say maybe, just maybe, it had some type of organ damage that could have been caused by throwing them in a tank that wasn't cycled?


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

Pseudeotropheus BB said:


> What type of filtration are you running? If you currently are not using an air pump and sponge filter it would be a wise investment. BB needs surface area to grow and a sponge filter is an excellent inexpensive choice.


Funny you should ask. My Lustar Hydro-Sponge V(125g) was delivered today. I will set it up when I get home. Additionally, I have a Marineland Penguin 350B (70g) HOB in use. So, I should be in very good shape filtration-wise.



POPSS said:


> you can add prime if you can not do a water change today, but i would get on schedule soon as you can, and keep it till cycled. there should be no need for any other chems unless fish have a condition. barring that all they need is good clean water, and a good clean diet IMHO.
> 
> no offence to sparrow here. I have never used what she is suggesting, I just do not see the addition of chems unless there is a reason.


I can understand both side of the argument on this issue. I have been using Nutrafin Cycle. I will continue to use it until my tank is cycled.


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## POPSS (Aug 24, 2013)

harsh K7 but true, crystal clear water does not = good water. hence do the water tests, and change the water according to what it reads. water changes are the life blood of a healthy tank.


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

I will be vigilant in caring for my fish. I know I can't undo the mistake I already made, but I will do everything I can go forward to enure their success. I will post updates. Thank you all for the advice.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I read that using Prime will slow down your bio filter during your cycle, it is recommending to use it only for dechlorinating water during the cycling process and not for keeping large amounts of free ammonia ionized. Since you don't really have an option I would use it generously every other day to keep ammonia and nitrite in harmless states but your cycle time is going to most likely going to double, so basically expect to have a 6-8 week cycle with using prime every two days.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Dr. Tim's One and Only nitrifying bacteria will cylce your tank in 1-2 days. Cost you about $50 delivered next day. Dr. Tim was once a sponsor on this site. I have used One and Only successfully in the past. The first time I was in the same situation as yourself. I next day aired his product, and the following day I had 0 ammo, 0 nitrite and a nitrate reading. I was several weeks from cycling my tank, with fish.

Just something to think about, if you want to avoid all the water changes, headaches and possible damage to your stock.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Yellow, my comment was meant towards the people that do it again and again knowing that it is not healthy for their pets. You are on here looking for the best way to procede so you are doing what you know is best and trying to improve on that, therefore you evidently care. Sorry if you thought that may have been directed at you.


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

I did a 50% water change last night, added Prime according to the directions and installed the seeded filter cartridge. 1 hour later the ammonia level was 0.25 ppm. This morning the the ammonia level was 0.25 ppm. All the fish seem very active, except the largest one (Malawi Blue Dolphin named "Big Red"), although from what I have read, its behavior is not atypical for the species.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Tims or safe start.

I wouldnt trust anything else. Safe start has worked great for me every time (2-3 times.)

Id do one or the other


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

k7gixxerguy said:


> Yellow, my comment was meant towards the people that do it again and again knowing that it is not healthy for their pets. You are on here looking for the best way to procede so you are doing what you know is best and trying to improve on that, therefore you evidently care. Sorry if you thought that may have been directed at you.


I didn't think it was directed at me. I am, however, upset with myself for not doing more thorough research about cycling a tank before putting my fish at risk. I am also upset with the 2 pet stores I purchased by equipment and fish from. I shouldn't expect expert advice form PetSmart, but the other store I went to claims to be fish experts and they didn't tell me to cycle my tank before adding fish. Live and learn.


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Most places do know but honestly they are businesses and what happens if you lose a few in the cycling process? You learn why it happened and come back to buy more. It may be unethical but most retailers will take a sale now before they will say come back in a month when your cycle is complete. I haven't seen any of my local stores having safe start or dr Tim's either.


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## Qozux (Sep 3, 2013)

k7gixxerguy said:


> Most places do know but honestly they are businesses and what happens if you lose a few in the cycling process? You learn why it happened and come back to buy more. It may be unethical but most retailers will take a sale now before they will say come back in a month when your cycle is complete. I haven't seen any of my local stores having safe start or dr Tim's either.


I did see the small bottle of safe start at Petsmart


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

IF they have safe start check the date. get the freshest bottle they have.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

yellowhighlighter said:


> I did a 50% water change last night, added Prime according to the directions and installed the seeded filter cartridge. 1 hour later the ammonia level was 0.25 ppm. This morning the the ammonia level was 0.25 ppm. All the fish seem very active, except the largest one (Malawi Blue Dolphin named "Big Red"), although from what I have read, its behavior is not atypical for the species.


Just FYI Prime doesn't actually remove ammonia (NH3) it only creates an ionic bond to turn it into ammonium (NH4+). This ammonium is not toxic to fish but the test kit will still show .25 Ammonia because it can read all ammonia not just free ammonia this includes chloramine as well. This ionic bond created by Prime is only temporary and lasts approximately 48 hours, if the ammonium is not removed from the tank by your bio filter the bond will break and become free ammonia (NH3) again, this is why you need to keep dosing Prime every 48 hours. Test your ammonia before adding Prime, not after, to see if your bio filter is removing ammonia. Testing ammonia after adding Prime will not give your correct results.


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Dr. Tim's One and Only nitrifying bacteria will cylce your tank in 1-2 days. Cost you about $50 delivered next day. Dr. Tim was once a sponsor on this site. I have used One and Only successfully in the past. The first time I was in the same situation as yourself. I next day aired his product, and the following day I had 0 ammo, 0 nitrite and a nitrate reading. I was several weeks from cycling my tank, with fish.
> 
> Just something to think about, if you want to avoid all the water changes, headaches and possible damage to your stock.


This sounds like a viable solution. Should I use Prime in conjunction with One and Only, or will One and Only eliminate the ammonia on its own?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Buy enough for your volume of water and dump it in. I wouldn't use Prime with it. Test your levels 24 hours after adding.


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

I tested the ammonia level last night. It had risen to 0.50ppm. I did a 50% water change and added Tetra SafeStart. I had to go to 2 different stores to get enough SafeStart for my 60G tank. I hope to see positive results soon, although this morning the ammonia level was still 0.50ppm. I'll check it again tonight. If it hasn't improved by tomorrow, I will do another 50% water change.

I ordered a water changer that hooks up to the nearest sink because hauling these 5 gallon buckets of water around is taking a toll on my back.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

Don't haul buckets, that is the WORST! I love my Aqueon, water changes are so easy, just hook it up to the sink, and wait. I'm cycling my tank now, so I'm doing a water change almost every day, it's not a hassle at all with the Aqueon.


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

*Status Update:*
On Tuesday (9/10/13) I added enough Tetra SafeStart for a 60G tank. On Thursday (9/12/13), I added enough Tetra SafeStart Plus for a 75G tank.
Today (9/14/13), I read the instructions on the API Freshwater Test Kit thoroughly (for the first time, by the way) and performed the tests for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate accurately (again, for the first time). I wasn't waiting 5 minutes for the colors to develop and I wasn't shaking Nitrate Bottle #2 vigorously and I wasn't shaking the Nitrate test tube vigorously.
Here are my results. *Ammonia: 0.50 - 1.0 ppm* (it is very difficult for me to tell the difference between 0.50 and 1.0). *Nitrite: 0 ppm*. *Nitrate: 20 ppm*. Is my tank cycled?

I am slightly concerned with the Ammonia reading, but very encouraged by the Nitrate reading. Should I do 25% water changes every other day until my Ammonia reading stabilizes between 0 - 0.25 ppm? What is my next step?

Thank you all for your help. You have been patient and helpful, unlike another forum I tried before coming here. This is my new forum home.


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

yellowhighlighter said:


> *Status Update:*
> Here are my results. *Ammonia: 0.50 - 1.0 ppm* (it is very difficult for me to tell the difference between 0.50 and 1.0). *Nitrite: 0 ppm*. *Nitrate: 20 ppm*. Is my tank cycled?


No, self, your tank is not cycled until your ammonia = 0 ppm. Keep monitoring the ammonia until it reaches 0 ppm. Its okay to do small water changes daily, especially if the ammonia level continues to escalate. Your tank will not be fully cycled until the nitrifying bacteria colony is large enough to consume ammonia at the same rate it is produced.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I never used Safe Start but I would try to keep your ammonia between 0-.25 with water changes until it's cycled.


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

*STATUS UPDATE*
My tank has been up and running for ~4 weeks. It has been a little over a week since I added the first dose of SafeStart and about 1 week since I added the second dose of SafeStart Plus.

My ammonia level is very nearly 0 ppm, but I still get a positive result. It is difficult for me to determine whether the test color is 0, or 0.25ppm. So, in order to insure the health of my fishes, I assume it is 0.25 ppm and I continue to do 30% water changes every other day.

The other reason for the every other day water changes is the nitrAte level. It always seems to ~20 ppm 1 day after a water change, and ~40 ppm 2 days after a water change. I hope it stabilizes around 20 or less soon, but in the meantime, I'll continue to do water changes. BTW, my tap water tests 5 ppm for nitrAtes.

Almost all the fish are well. I actually lost one about a week and a half ago. I don't even know which one it was. By the time I found it, there was nothing left but skeleton and tail. It was very sad.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Try testing your tap water against your tank water when checking ammonia. I find it hard to tell the difference between 0-0.25 ppm. Or use some bottled water. May put your mind at ease...


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## yellowhighlighter (Sep 10, 2013)

The aquarium is finally cycled. As of yesterday, Ammonia = 0 ppm, Nitrite = 0 ppm, and Nitrate = 20 ppm. Thanks for all your help. I added a double dose of Dr. Tim's One and Only 1 week ago and for the past 2+ weeks I did daily 50% water changes. I'll never add fish to a uncycled tank again. I am fortunate to have lost only 2 out of 18 fish during this process. Oddly, the second loss occurred yesterday, the day the cycle was complete. I guess the stress over a 4 week period was too much for it.

Now, onto the business of adding rock structure and slowly removing fake plants, a Barbie decoration, a Mr. Potato Head decoration and a skeleton rock star decoration.

My daughters would like to add a Pleco to the tank. Is that a good tank mate for Peacocks and Haps? I would like to hear your suggestions for non-Cichlid, suitable tank mates, please and thank you. Loaches? Catfish? Lobster? Its a 60 gallon aquarium. 48" L x 12.25" D x 23.5" H. pH = 7.6


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

A busy nose/bristle nose pleco could be added. Many people add them with success. They can turn into a meal, though. Try adding one that has some size to it. They stay small, and don't produce a lot of waste like the large varieties. A school of synodontis catfish(5 or more) would be a nice addition. Try syno lucipinnis. They stay smaller, around 4".


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