# Best Peaceful Group Cichlid? Flag Cichlid Info?



## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

I'm looking for a peaceful cichlid that I can keep in a group -- not just a pair. I'm posting this in the SA section of the forum because I expect to find the fish I'm looking for to be from South America, if there is even a cichlid that fits all my specific criteria... :?

My main goal is a tank that is peaceful and enjoyable to look at, because my current 75 gallon houses Tropheus which keep fighting and dying and it's not calming to look at (separate thread for that issue.) Simple community tanks don't really interest me. I want some sort of cichlid as a 'centerpiece' fish; one that is the main feature of the tank, most preferably one that I can keep in a large group. Then I would get perhaps tetras, rainbowfish, or dwarf cichlids, depending on what would work with the main species of the tank, if anything can. So far, Geophagus fits my criteria, but I'm afraid a tank smaller than 5-6 feet would be too small for adults long-term, mainly if they decide to spawn.

The next fish I looked at were the Mesonauta species (flag cichlids). However, I'm reading conflicting statements about whether they are peaceful or aggressive, mainly towards conspecifics. Some people also say they'll sometimes eat plants, which means I may not be able to have real plants in there. I originally wanted to have real live plants but that's not part of my criteria. I also am having trouble finding out whether they are a fish that prefers to be in a group, and whether they are territorial or not. If anyone has experience with the flag cichlids, your help with this would be greatly appreciated.

If I got a 5 foot tank, what fish could I keep in there? How many Geophagus Orange-Head Tapajos? Will they be happy long-term, even at full size? How about the Flag Cichlids? How many could go in there (without Geos) and what kind of tankmates could I have? Thanks in advance.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Festivums (Flag Cichlids), Keyholes, Angels, Discus; those are all cichlids that you could keep as a group in a 75g. But I'm afraid it would limit your ability to also keep Geophagus as they should be kept in a group and 75g is just too small for two groups.

Bolivian Rams (microgeophagus) would be a more appropriate alternative to Geophagus (if you wanted another group of cichlids, like say Angels, Keyholes, or Festivums.

Blue Rams (also microgeophagus) are quite often kept with Discus as they enjoy similar, warmer water temps.

Just keep in mind that if any of the above cichlids pair off and spawn they will naturally get more aggressive.

For CA the Thoricthys genus (think Firemouths/Pasionis) generally likes to be kept in groups.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

The more I see pictures of Flag Cichlids, the more I want 'em. However, I'm worried that even without spawning, the Flags will be aggressive to one another. I don't want a fish that does that in this new tank, although maybe that's just part of the package with cichlids.

I'm also having trouble finding info about what non-cichlid species could go with Flag Cichlids. I'd rather have a large group of a species rather than just a single one, with the exception being Kribensis because I'd be fine with just a pair of them. Can Kribensis go with Flags? If not, I'd consider a large group of Bolivian rams to go on the bottom of the tank, but I'll have to do some more research on them first.

How about the non-cichlid species of fish? Rainbowfish I'd keep, but I read somewhere that flag cichlids aren't really happy with having larger quick-moving fish as tankmates in the same level of the water column. I know certain tetras like cardinals would probably be eaten, but are there any tetra species that would be fine with Flags? I'd get a big shoal of Cory catfish and forgo the Rams, but only if cories can go with flag cichlids. Do you know whether they'd be ok?

With all that being said, the main focus of the tank would be the flag cichlids if I decide to get them. How many would be good as a large group? I'd keep them as the main species of the tank, paired with a large group of a smaller fish on the bottom levels and maybe fit in a 3rd species like tetras to fill in any gaps, but only if they won't get eaten or terrorized. I know you can't really predict what'll happen but perhaps someone has some experience with mixing species like that.

To recap, here are my main questions:
1. How many Flag Cichlids in a group, assuming they are the largest species in a 4 foot tank?
2. Will Flag Cichlids terrorize eachother? I don't want a repeat of my stressful Tropheus tank.
3. What is a good mid-water schooling fish (rainbows, barbs, tetras) that can go with Flags, if there are any that can?
4. Can Cory catfish go with Flags?
5. Would a pair of Kribensis be fine with Flags?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just asking a lot because I can't find many good answers to my questions with google searches. Thanks in advance to anyone who has any answers to my Q's.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

I have kept the Festivum cichlid for years, but do not have any currently.
1) Have never seen them eat, or even nibble on plants.
2) I had about 4 in my tank, they grew large, but have never had any aggression, even among themselves. 
3) They are mostly a surface water cichlid.
4) I kept them with tetras with no issues--Neons, Lemons, ect.
5) They never bothered my corys. 
6) I never kept them with Kribensis, but they were fine with Angels.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

haha tanker3, I think you responded to another one of my recent threads about trying to find what will work for the new tank I want. You've been a great help so far  (as has everyone else!!)

Still a lot of time to go before I would actually get the new tank, but it's always nice to plan it out early. I've got lots of time for planning it out. I can say that I've now got sufficient info for deciding on which fish to get (Geos, Festivum, Rams, etc.) but I'm still open to any info that anyone can give.

Thanks to everyone who has helped so far.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

All cichlids display some level of aggression. Some species are aggressive to all other cichlids. Some species, the aggression is confined to only other members of their species. I currently keep Discus, and some are very aggressive with other discus.

Aquariums amplify aggression levels as all the fish are stuck in a small space and can't get away. The best you can do is create complex, maze like aquascape, so fish have temporary hiding spots. You can buy some large pieces o driftwood with large Java ferns or Anubias growing on them to help aquascape your tank. Trying to do a proper planted tank with earth eating SA cichlids is an exercise in futility.

If you want multiple species, best to keep a small group (5 or 6) of one larger species, and research heavily smaller, complimentary species.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Man, I just found Etroplus canarensis online and according to my research they are peaceful, shoaling cichlids. The problem? They're rare and probably expensive.

I'm sure that species would've been great for my ideal tank. Hm, maybe I can find 'em somewhere. (doubt it...)


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

679x said:


> Man, I just found Etroplus canarensis online and according to my research they are peaceful, shoaling cichlids. The problem? They're rare and probably expensive.
> 
> I'm sure that species would've been great for my ideal tank. Hm, maybe I can find 'em somewhere. (doubt it...)


Jeff Rapps has Etroplus suratensis for sale, and I wouldn't call them expensive at 5 for $50.

But, they grow large 8 to 15 inches. And less aggressive is not the same as peaceful.

I think you are a little to focused on the idea of peaceful.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

well. I just don't want another species that is going to kill eachother, that's all. I've got my Tropheus for that.

Don't E. canarensis get much smaller than E. suratensis? Google searches tell me E. canarensis gets like, 4-6 inches in length. Is that true?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

679x said:


> well. I just don't want another species that is going to kill eachother, that's all. I've got my Tropheus for that.
> 
> Don't E. canarensis get much smaller than E. suratensis? Google searches tell me E. canarensis gets like, 4-6 inches in length. Is that true?


Yes they are much smaller. Max 4".


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

When the tank is ready I'll see if I can get Etroplus canarensis. If not, I'll go with different fish.

A species I'm looking at is the Bolivian ram... I've always liked the ram cichlids. I would get a large group of them.

I also have always liked Cory catfish, so I would get Rams and Cories. However, with the rams being cichlids, I'm wondering whether that would cause problems for the cories. With a 4 foot tank, would I have any need to worry?

I think a large group of rams along with a large shoal of cories would look quite nice for the bottom of the tank. With that being said, how many Bolivian rams and how many cory catfish could I keep? Would they work in a 4 foot tank together?


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## pcdiddy (Oct 8, 2016)

679x said:


> When the tank is ready I'll see if I can get Etroplus canarensis. If not, I'll go with different fish.
> 
> A species I'm looking at is the Bolivian ram... I've always liked the ram cichlids. I would get a large group of them.
> 
> ...


I have 6 Bolivian Rams in with several cories. Its a 75 gallon 4 foot tank with no issues at all. Could be a different story if your planning on breeding the rams though. The rams are in with assorted schooling tetras and 6 rainbows.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Great, I'd probably be getting something like lemon tetras and for sure a rainbowfish species (Melanotaenia herbertaxelrodi or M. trifasciata) if I were to go with the Ram/Cory mix.

pcdiddy, do your Bolivian rams roam around the tank often, or do they stay in a territory? I'm having trouble finding info online about whether Bolivian rams defend territories or not. Also, do you know what your male/female ratio is amongst your Rams? Thanks.


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## pcdiddy (Oct 8, 2016)

Hey 679x, I have 3 pairs of the rams and they have their favorites places in tank but will roam. They all love to come to the front of the tank when im near. Nice fish. FYI I feed the Rams sinking shrimp pellets mainly and flake food to the tetras which are Rummy Nose, Neon, Glowlight, Redeye, Head and tail light, and one of my favorite types of tetras the Ember Tetra and Boesemani Rainbows. They all are fast eaters. I also have 2 gold nugget plecos that are doing great in the tank.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Thanks for the help. I'm getting pretty excited about this tank lol, I've been looking at Apistogramma trifasciata and would consider getting a harem of those, but at the same time I really want a large group of Bolivian rams... decisions. I don't think I could keep cory catfish with A. trifasciata... well, I still have like a year to decide haha. Thanks again


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