# help ID this fish for me



## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

I bought these are Red Back Scrapers they were fry when I got them and they dont lok like Red Back Scrapers to me now that they have got color. Click on the pic and watch the video


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

No, I would say they aren't red back scrapers. Victorians... ugg, there is so much variability in tank raised fish, and there has been a great deal of hybridizing as well. So hard to ID, but I can tell what they aren't.


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## StructureGuy (Jul 27, 2002)

My best guess is that it's the Victorian that Lawrence Kent brought back from Africa a few years ago.

http://www.african-cichlid.com/Riponianus.htm

It's going by the name Psammochromis riponianus here in the states but not everyone agrees with that ID.

Kevin Bauman


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

nope I have f1 Psammochromis riponianus adults and they dont look like them.


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## samaki (Oct 25, 2002)

Hi Can yu post others pics of it??, this one is not so clear and it's very difficult to id .
xris


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

samaki said:


> Hi Can yu post others pics of it??, this one is not so clear and it's very difficult to id .
> xris


the 2 pic's are videos click on them and waych the videos


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## samaki (Oct 25, 2002)

Ok But it's still very hard to say.
xris


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

I know thats why I posted it up here. I'm hoping someone knows what it is. The guy I got rthem from got his stock from the C.A.R.E.S auction


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I bet samaki would know, but we need a clearer picture.


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

DJRansome said:


> I bet samaki would know, but we need a clearer picture.


 did you watch the 2 videos it is clear enough to see the fish in detail


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## samaki (Oct 25, 2002)

Hi I can't id the fish from the vid, I missed some details.
xris


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)




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## samaki (Oct 25, 2002)

Hi from the body color it could be H.sp"Hippo point salmon" but as the fish seems young, it's not a 100 % sure id
xris


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

samaki said:


> Hi from the body color it could be H.sp"Hippo point salmon" but as the fish seems young, it's not a 100 % sure id
> xris


This in no way is a Hippo point salmon


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

vinman63 said:


> I know thats why I posted it up here. I'm hoping someone knows what it is. The guy I got rthem from got his stock from the C.A.R.E.S auction


The guy bought them as Red Back Scrapers at the auction?

Unfortunately for now they are going to remain unidentified, as you've had a couple of the best experts give an attempt, and can't do it. Victorians are difficult because there is some degree of variability, and they tend to hybridize so easily.

Let them grow up, colour up more, and "maybe" you'll get an ID... or maybe you'll have to give up on them.


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

that is colored up. The guy that bred the fish is Greg Steeves. The guy I got them from said his breeder male looks the same as my male. Greg insist they are red back scrapers. Threy dont look like any red back scrapers I seen


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## StructureGuy (Jul 27, 2002)

vinman63 said:


> that is colored up. The guy that bred the fish is Greg Steeves. The guy I got them from said his breeder male looks the same as my male. Greg insist they are red back scrapers. They don't look like any red back scrapers I seen


If you click on the link on this page you can see the species article (a pdf) written by Greg Steeves. 
http://www.africancichlids.net/gallery/ ... ctoria.php
(I would imagine you've probably already seen this.)








Kevin


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

SG, obviously the line has been contaminated because my male and the guy I got them from don't have red backs and green bottoms in stead the have red flanks and green midsection and peduncles


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

It would seem likely that after multiple generations in captivity, the colour has changed somewhat from what one would expect. This isn't completely unheard of either. It is one of the reasons nyererei are so completely difficult to ID variants. If it came from that line, it's a redback scraper. If it isn't what you want... go get some that look like what you want. I've had the same thing with nyererei.


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

I colud see the color changing some what in the depth of the tone but not the pattren. if all thre red back scrapers came from one adult female how come the ones in Europe have not changed pattren. It has to be a contaminant. No way would the red disapear off the back and go to the sides. The fish has no red on the back what so ever. The back is gray.


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

I seen what you are talking about in the nyererei. I never seen the red go from the back to the flank. Look at the european stock none of the look like my fish or the father to this fish.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

By whatever means, it isn't what you want. Time to move them out, and get a fish that meets your expectations. The plasticity of cichlids is such that after just a few generations, we can change the colours and pigment of fish. With so many examples of peacocks in short periods of time, it is easy to see that as possible. You could always line breed them back to what you expect to see... I understand this line has some variability, and throws fry that you would expect in colouration too.


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

Fogelhund said:


> By whatever means, it isn't what you want. Time to move them out, and get a fish that meets your expectations. The plasticity of cichlids is such that after just a few generations, we can change the colours and pigment of fish. With so many examples of peacocks in short periods of time, it is easy to see that as possible.


Thats what I'm doing It is a loss. I very honest with people I tell them this is what I bought them as babies . If you know anyone inthe states that has what i'm looking foir please send them my way


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## samaki (Oct 25, 2002)

Hi here is the H.sp"red back scraper" aka H.obliquidens(L.Seegers, 2008)
http://www.ciklid.org/artregister/artre ... hp?ID=1779
this fish differs from the one from you vinman but also from the one on the Greg Pic.this fish is a descendant of the females fished by Y.Fermon in 1991 and didn't show any variations in its dress or color pattern.
xris


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## vinman63 (Apr 28, 2008)

samaki said:


> Hi here is the H.sp"red back scraper" aka H.obliquidens(L.Seegers, 2008)
> http://www.ciklid.org/artregister/artre ... hp?ID=1779
> this fish differs from the one from you vinman but also from the one on the Greg Pic.this fish is a descendant of the females fished by Y.Fermon in 1991 and didn't show any variations in its dress or color pattern.
> xris


 Thats what I wanted, Thak you for posting that link


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