# How would you stock a 220?



## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

I'll be getting my new tank in a few weeks and, being completely new to cichlids, wanted to get some ideas for stock from the experts!

The tank dimensions will be 72 x 30w x 24h - 850 litres / 225 US gallons

Unless otherwise advised, the following fish from an existing tank will be going into the new aquarium:
- 2 x Clown Loach (currently about 2"-3" long, might add another 3 or 4 loaches as I've read they like to be in groups)
- 2 x Joselimaianus Pleco (currently about 2" long)
- 1 x Koi Angel (maybe, but will be moved out if it gets bullied! Main body is about 4" in diameter currently)

My main requests for new tank:
- African cichlids (of different varieties - not just mbuna for example)
- Colourful
- Diverse (different tank mates - not necessarily just fish)

Thanks! :fish:


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## MoKoy (Sep 12, 2013)

i would suggest to do a little reading from the library section. i started my aquarium 6 months agon and this site has been more than helpful.
you have to determine on what kind of fish you want. as for mixing mbunas, haps and peacocks it really is a hit and miss.
a lot of the reading would suggest to stick to one group and find the compatible fishes. cichlids behavior vary from one fish to another.
a fish from same specie might hate each other in the books but some hobbyist manage to keep them together or vice versa, in which a "peaceful" cichlid could just as be a terror in your tank.
youre loaches migh work just fine since it is a big tank and they do get fairly big and as for plecos a lot of them get lazy once the get really big.
my preference is bristlenose pleco, they are a small specie. although a lot of people say they get killed off in their tanks, a lot would also say they do just fine.
at the end of the day it really does pay off to do the reading, not only will you learn from each type of fish it will also give you an idea of what to do when something undesirable happens.
i know its not much help but when i started to read about AC i wa sure slapped in the face with how much i didnt know about them.
my stocking list is not the ideal combination but its the colors i like and if and when something goes wrong i know what steps i could take.
i dont know everything but i know ill have a good start.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

I've done a bit of reading and watched endless YouTube videos, and I'm still bamboozled!

I read somewhere or other that mixing different cichlids works, but only if the mbunas are slightly smaller than the others as the mbunas are the bullies?

I think I'll start with young cichlids so they get used to each other, and the other tank mates, as they grow.

I've seen some people say that mbunas can eat out the eyes of plecos(!) but most people say they get on fine, provided that the plecos are of a decent size compared to the mbuna.

I'd really like to find out more about interesting tank mates. I saw someone had a fire eel in their cichlid tank, now that looks cool!


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## MoKoy (Sep 12, 2013)

its always better to get them while juvies cause it gives them time to get use to each other.
with that said some fish might get a long just fine but turn sour over night.
my plecos are about 2-3" and are doing fairly well with my mbuna tank. 
my mbunas are about 2-3" now as well, maybe one yellow lab and acei close to 4".
mixing with other species will always be hit and miss but i would say if thats what youre after go for it.
also, stick with the basic needs for the fish if your planning on adding other specie. ie water parameters.
though i do believe consistency is key you really dont want to stray too far away from their basic.
just make sure you have a back up plan if it doesn't work.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Definitely keeping an eyes on the water parameters.

Some interesting tank mates out there; just watched a vid of a guy who has turtles in his cichlid tank...


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## MoKoy (Sep 12, 2013)

whatever you find in lake malawi should work with any of the cichlids in that area in theory since they already do in the wild.
the biggest difference will be the size of your ecosystem. in lake malawi the area that these animals live in is far bigger than what you can create in and aquariom.
the specie that kill each other in captive still fair well in the wild becaue they have plenty of room to swim and hide. 
maybe if you had a big enough tank you can try to recreate a little bit of the wild but youll run in bigger problems IMO when you do that just cause of thae fact that its not he same.

but, yes i undestand where youre coming from. it would be cool to have other type of animals in there aside from fish.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Taking into consideration the size of the tank and the fish that will already be going into it, how many different types of cichlid could go in it?

Or is that like asking how long a piece of string is?


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## MoKoy (Sep 12, 2013)

it all entirely depends on the adult size of the fish. a few mbunas are areound 4-6" some peacocks and hap go to 8" or so. 
if your going for the smaller specie maybe 30-40 fish (heavy stocked) if your going for bigger ones maybe half of that.
how many different types is harder to answer for several factors mainly aggressiveness(con specific or not).
breeding aspect of things(are you giving fish away or selling? maynot want specie that easily crossbreed).
i think what you should do is answer yourself this question, what are you looking for after setting up the tank?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would not put mbuna with angels or any pleco other than bristlenose (they have a high mortality rate at introduction, but if they survive a month they can be good for life).

If you stock oddballs like eels I'd choose them first and stock around them. They are predators and can eat your other fish.

If you want drastically different fish, better to have a couple smaller tanks tailored for them then toss them together in one big tank.

If you want African cichlids and are willing to rehome the angel and pleco then all-male Malawi haps and peacocks can give you decent variety.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

MoKoy said:


> it all entirely depends on the adult size of the fish. a few mbunas are areound 4-6" some peacocks and hap go to 8" or so.
> if your going for the smaller specie maybe 30-40 fish (heavy stocked) if your going for bigger ones maybe half of that.
> how many different types is harder to answer for several factors mainly aggressiveness(con specific or not).
> breeding aspect of things(are you giving fish away or selling? maynot want specie that easily crossbreed).
> i think what you should do is answer yourself this question, what are you looking for after setting up the tank?


I think I might eventually get around to breeding eventually (when I learn a bit more), but will probably give them away to start with!

What I'm looking for after set up is basically what I mentioned at the beginning: colour and diversity. :drooling:


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> I would not put mbuna with angels or any pleco other than bristlenose (they have a high mortality rate at introduction, but if they survive a month they can be good for life).
> 
> If you stock oddballs like eels I'd choose them first and stock around them. They are predators and can eat your other fish.
> 
> ...


The angel doesn't have to go in the cichlid tank. The angel is about 4" in diameter at the moment and the cichlids would be juveniles, so I was assuming they wouldn't boss it around too much, but then I read somewhere that mbuna pick on fish 3-4 times their size! I was going to see how it goes and at the first sign of trouble move it into a 4ft community tank. I've seen some people say it works, although most people seem to think it's a bad idea (no doubt from experience!). Not sure now...

What's the biggest problem with plecos - is it just the aggression from the cichlids? I've seen so many videos/articles that have plecos (perhaps they're all bristlenose?) and cichlids together. The plecos could go in the 4ft tank too, but they'd probably outgrow that.

The whole compatibility thing has got me stumped. Every time I see one thing ("don't mix mbuna, peacocks and haps!") I find someone else saying the opposite ("behind me is a tank with mbuna, peacocks and haps that all get along fine!").... :-?


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## l51r8 (Jun 27, 2013)

hozzy said:


> The whole compatibility thing has got me stumped. Every time I see one thing ("don't mix mbuna, peacocks and haps!") I find someone else saying the opposite ("behind me is a tank with mbuna, peacocks and haps that all get along fine!").... :-?


Lol, I watched that video too! Unfortunately what you're reading is the case, what works in some tanks doesn't work in others. There will be some trial and error guaranteed.

I'm probably not qualified to give advice. We've only been keeping cichlids for 8 months, so none of ours are fully matured yet (altough that hasn't stopped them from mating!) So who knows how they'll react with eachother when they are fully grown. But we actually keep cichlids from every lake/basin/stream in Africa! I keep a spread sheet of our fish and there is enough overlap in their required water parameters to keep everyone happy (78 degrees, 8.2 PH.) In our 180g we have haps, peacocks, vics, trophies and more. And SO FAR they're coexsisting quite nicely, for the most part the fish from different lake have little to no aggression towards eachother. We sold/gave away almost all of our mbunas, even though they're colorful at a young age and readily availible I personally find them too aggressive, and not that interesting compared to the adult colorations of other species. If you can be patient and don't need color right away, the adult colorations of some peacocks, vics, tangs and haps are amazing.

Some of my favorite (I don't have all of these, but the one's I don't have I've read enough on to still want them):
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1368 Red Empress - Soooo pretty
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1313 German red peacock
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1235 Taiwan Reef
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1160 Venustus
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1218 Star Sapphire - very peaceful and cool looking
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1926 Feather Fin - So unique looking
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1928 Another Feather Fin
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2167 Cyps - There are many varities of cyps, lots of nice colors.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1537 Julies
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1578 Black Calvus - He may not have color, but he's actually one of my favorites!
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2257 These are usually listed as daffodils or fairy cichlids
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1961 Dream Cichlids
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1546 Sp. 44
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1558 Ruby Green
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1572 Christmas Fulu
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2138 Dambas
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1895 Ilangi
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1910 Red Moliro - We have trophies in our mixed tank and it seems to be working for now, but from everything I've read, we should be keeping them in their own tank in a large group. But their aggression is only conspecific, and the other fish in our tank actually seem to keep them from bullying each other too much. Who knows.

If you don't want to be as ridiculous as me and you want to stick to one lake, I think Lake Tanganika has the best range of diversity (size, shape, color , patterns, and behaviors)

The most important factors are what you like, and what's available. Find out what's available to you, do some reaseach on them, see what they'll look like grown, how big they'll be, and what their aggression level is. In the end only you can pick the fish that are right for you.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

That's super helpful, thanks. Some of those cichlids look absolutely gorgeous.

I don't mind waiting for colour to come in, especially if it means that getting the fish as juveniles increases the likelihood that they'll all get on.

It's interesting that you've given most of your mbuna away. I hadn't realised that they're potentially that problematic.

To be honest, I still haven't found out how to tell the difference between mbuna, peacocks, haps, etc! I've struggled to find anything that explains it all simply. In THAT video, the dude was pointing at the fish "mbuna", "hap", "peacock" - I couldn't tell the difference! 
It's good to know that they can potentially get on though.

I suppose it does all depend on the individual fish.
I've had so many people tell me that I can't keep tiger barbs and guppies together because the barbs will fin nip the guppies to death. My tigers must have missed that training session. They also leave the angel alone ("don't keep them together!"), although that whole tank community will moving to a bigger tank soon.

When I first looked into cichlids, I kept reading that they have to be kept on their own and you couldn't mix them with any other fish. Now I've seen videos of them (apparently) happily living alongside clown loaches, angels, plecos, catfish, fire eels and turtles!

Having some fish that don't get on might be an advantage for me - an excuse to set up new tanks! 

I think I'll go through some pics (especially the ones you've posted above), and then repost my long list here, so people can look at it, shake their heads and hopefully tell me which are likely to go OK together.


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## l51r8 (Jun 27, 2013)

hozzy said:


> To be honest, I still haven't found out how to tell the difference between mbuna, peacocks, haps, etc! I've struggled to find anything that explains it all simply. In THAT video, the dude was pointing at the fish "mbuna", "hap", "peacock" - I couldn't tell the difference!


This site has helped me the most when learning what's what in the cichlid world. If you do a google search for the cichlid in question and put "site:http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/" at the end of the search ex: "venustus site:http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/" you'll get results only from the species profile pages of this site, and it will show you what sub group that species is from, like in the example above you'll see that the venustus is found under the "Malawi Haplochromines‎" section, ie Haps. After a while you'll be able to spot a lot them yourself.


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## hozzy (Dec 17, 2013)

l51r8 said:


> hozzy said:
> 
> 
> > To be honest, I still haven't found out how to tell the difference between mbuna, peacocks, haps, etc! I've struggled to find anything that explains it all simply. In THAT video, the dude was pointing at the fish "mbuna", "hap", "peacock" - I couldn't tell the difference!
> ...


Thanks. I'll do that! :thumb:


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## MoKoy (Sep 12, 2013)

with cichlids everything is really a trial and error. just like what l51r8 said its a case of what works for one tank might not work for another.
you can stock several tanks with same amount and types of fish but not all tank will thrive at the same level


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