# Hongi with Hara, Demasoni?



## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

Has anyone tried this? I was hoping that the really purple bodied strain with red dorsal fins...sometimes sold as 'super red top' or 'red top kimpuna' (I say sometimes because often fish sold as red tops are actually yellow tops with blue body) would co exist with the Haras and Demasoni....otherwise maybe I should switch stocking list to be Demasoni, labs, hara, and Acei 'ngara'...


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Conspecifically they seem fine.

The SRT's get a bit bigger and are highly territorial though, you'd need a large tank.

Have you considered Rusties? Similar coloration, only gets 4", much less aggressive. Not sure how they would fair against Demasoni though...

If you're still up in the air, what about rusty, saulosi, and hara? With saulosi, the females are yellow so you wouldn't need labs, which could give you more room for the larger, but more peaceful acei.

I'm still learning about stocking myself so if any of the more experienced members want to set me straight please do so.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Also, to avoid any confusion with any newer members who might be researching this on their own like I did, I am talking about: Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty), Pseudotropheus saulosi, and Cynotilapia sp. "hara."

When I was first learning it was always hard for me to follow what fish is what so I just thought it could be helpful to others reading this thread.


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## gatorbaiter (Feb 12, 2011)

Since i have never kept cyno hara only jalo reef , i might be wrong, but I have kept in the past demis and you could have a potential brawl in the making. Both sort of look similiar about the same size and pattern.


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

I have never really loved the rustys....I'm really partial to the 'Hongi'....the really red tops are sometimes referred to as a German line bred variant...but they show up elsewhere (seems like Germans get credit for line breeding a lot of things)....I have considered Saluosi, but I love the Dems behaviour...having a hard time finding Hara right now, so may be a moot point. Really leaning towards

SRT Hongi 'German line' - Labidochromis sp. 'Hongi'
Electric Yellow lab - Labidochromis Caureleus 'Lions Cove'
White Top Hara - Cynotilapia sp. 'Hara'
Demasoni - Psuedotropheus Demasoni 'pombo rocks'

If the Hongis get too boisterous I'm sure I can unload them somewhere nearby....just worried about inter species breeding


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

What size tank do you have?

I think if you can get a good line rusty they are similar but I understand, there is nothing quite like those SRT's. They sure are beautiful.

What's so different about saulosi and demasonis in behavior? I've not considered dems before as I'm not partial to monomorphic species, but I'm more than happy to learn more about them and possibly be swayed in their direction.


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

3 more-or-less-blue-bodied fish with vertical stripes. Conspecifically, that's a bloodbath in the making.


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

My tanks footprint is 48" by 15.5"....Demasoni are fascinating in large groups, and they love to explore tiny little nooks and crannies on the rocks and even swim upside down into them...I have had a large group before and they were awesome, i got a bunch of holey rock for them specifically, especially a 40 lb centerpiece that I hope they colonize.

Haras and Demasoni are kept together often with no real issues...it's been theorized by some that though they may look a little similar to us, they are something like photograph negatives to each other.

I feel that if you have the type of Hongi that I am referring to, they are very deep purple bodied, not blue at all, and have fire red backs, they will not look conspecific to the other two. I do agree that the typical 'hongi' fromt the LFS would be regarded as a sexual competitor by at least the alpha demasoni.


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

Heres a pic of my alpha male Hongi from my breeding group...if you go take a look at the pics in species profiles you'll see a big difference.










IMO it doesn't look anything like a demasoni or white top hara, I was hoping to hear from someone who had tried this mix before.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

I was reading up on them and I seemed to get the impression that you need one or a large group? It also seems that there is an extreme ability to overstock them? (people keeping 30+ in a 48" as common?)

Visually, through several YouTube videos I watched, they seemed very interesting, I could just use a bit more info/advice on keeping them before I seriously contemplate uprooting my 1m4f Saulosi slot I have saved 

I do, however, have an extra 40 long lying around so if I can't make up my mind I'll just make either one it's own species tank in the 40L!


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

Also, how much do you sell your Hongi fry for? I'm having a hard time finding a decent hongi online and here in WV the community is pretty weak, at least it appears to be, I may not be running in the right crowd. If you are shipping savvy here in the next few months or whenever you can count me more than interested! With a dad like that, I bet your fry are just stellar.


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

They were stellar fry, but unfortunately that was in the UK and I've moved and all the stock I spent years accumulating was sold or taken back to the LFS....I am trying very hard to find this line bred variant of the Hongi over here...I've heard they have very nice lines from Germany and Sweden, and I'd like to think I helped expand the line a little bit in the UK....but apart from older threads concerning German imports I haven't seen anything fresh...

If I were you, I'd put 15 demasoni and 6 labs in the 40 long, great color show for sure...I had a 3 foot tank where I did that and they bred like wildfire...then you can think about keeping your Saluosi slot and adding some different species.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

There are a number of people who have had poor success in keeping Hara with demasoni. Another barred bluish fish in the mix probably won't help.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

I guess the 40L is not a very common tank, it actually has the same footprint as a 55, its just not as tall. You could easily stock 3 species of 1m2f or 2 of 1m3-4f (option 2 sounds safer!)

I agree that yellow labs would be a great show but I've kind of taken aim at more of the uncommon cichlids you can't find at a petstore and C.A.R.E.S. fish for a few reasons- I want to know I can sell/find homes for the fry, I don't want to continue to support chain store fish mills, and I want to do my part to keep certain populations alive. This will also be a cursing point when I'm actually trying to find them!

I don't mean to sound like an elitist, eugenics supporter! 

How much did you sell your fry for when you had them? I'm all for spending a little more money for the real deal, but I don't want to get ripped off if I find them and don't know what a good price for them is.


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

What Fogel said. Which is what I said, before.

I used to keep Hongi. Your dom. male, when displaying, will become almost as pale as a hara with DARK purple stripes. Beautiful, yes. But asking for trouble.


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## PortiaD (Mar 7, 2011)

I have Hongi and Demasoni (but no Hara)....with no problems with aggression...well only a small one. I must look a lot like a Hongi because the little suckers have started biting ME! But as far as fish agression, no problem.

In truth, these two are my favorite fish, and I've been trying to talk myself into buying a couple more of each of them.


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

The line bred Kimpuna Hongis do not turn pale when displaying, they turn deeper purple and their head becomes even more reddish in tint...

Fogelhund, am I wrong that many have kept Hara and Demasoni together successfully? I seem to remember that Kim who is no longer a mod here used to do it successfully...


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## RRasco (Aug 31, 2006)

I attempted to keep Dems with Hara. The Hara ran a genocide on the Dems. I do however, have success keeping a large male Hongi with my Hara (2m/3f). I've never seen my Hongi get pale, he is very purple and orange. Just to add to the compatibility, I also have a large male Rusty in this tank.


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

has anyone kept dems with hara then, or am i misremembering completely?


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

I have kept them together for about 6 months & seems to be working well.

This is in a 180.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Me.


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## RRasco (Aug 31, 2006)

My Hara murdered my Dems, but that was in a 55. Looks like with larger tanks people have had more success than I


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

Hey DJ, what was the footprint of your tank that you kept Hara and Demasoni in? Did you add the demasoni first, or all as juvies at the same time?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They are currently both in the 75G. The demasoni were in there first. The hara are subordinate, and they did not color up for like 2 years. But at least part of that was I had too many hara males in the tank.


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

mmm....DJ, whats the footprint of your 75? If I am to try it sounds like adding the dems first is the way to go...and then add haras but make sure the hara male number is limited to one or maybe two?


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

I have a standard 75 and if his is standard as well, it should be 48"x18" footprint.


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## eeztropheus (Jan 10, 2010)

I find it to be complete BS that my post telling the OP to "Go for it!" was removed from this thread. Just because I was telling the OP to try something other than some boring cookie cutter set up am I not allowed to have a voice?


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

I've heard that people have succesfully kept hongis and haras, and that people have kept hongis and demasoni, and that people, including a current mod and a former mod on this site kept dems and haras....

Does anyone remember an article that came out a few years ago about haras and demasoni being inverse images to each other? In other words, in the way we perceive color and light, the fish look similar to us, but the way the fish 'see' they perceive enough of a difference to not to feel a threat to their territory.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would worry about the hara and hongi combination. To me they look very similar.


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## eoconnor (Nov 24, 2006)

Normally I would agree DJ, with normal WC or non line bred Hongis...but the German (or Swedish) line bred red top strain really looks a lot more like a red rusty....would you risk rustys and hara if you had enough rock work and were confident in the order you added them?


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