# sump help please



## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

can someone help me with a SIMPLE solution for failure of pump or power failure.. someone, if you would be so kind as to take photos and/or explain like im a 5 year old.. id appreciate the consideration


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## cevvin (May 2, 2008)

You need to give us a bit more information. What are you trying to prevent? the sump from filling?


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

i am worried about power or pump failure, in which the natural syphon would continue, and drain into my floor. also id like pictures of everything for a dummy like myself


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## imusuallyuseless (Dec 28, 2005)

You're not supposed to use a simple siphon w/a sump. A properly designed and built overflow will stop draining when the pump turns off and will resume when the pump turns back on. The return line from the pump into the tank should have a siphon break to prevent back siphon. I'll try to upload pics in a bit, but in the mean time can you describe or post pics of exactly what type of setup you have?


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

these are the parts that came with my 150 aquarium.. i also have a submersible pump. and as you can see there is a 30 gallon tank under my 150 for the actual sump.. i want to set this up by this weekend, i know i need scrubbies and quilt backing.. * note * one pipe has holes for drip filtration


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## imusuallyuseless (Dec 28, 2005)

You appear to have a DIY PVC overflow that isn't completely assembled. This is how it should look when fully assembled, primed w/o the pump on.










When the pump is turned on the water in the tank will rise above the intake on the inside of the tank and will then overflow over the T fitting on the outside where it'll head down to your sump. When the pump is shut off it'll only continue draining to the point as shown in the picture.

Overflows and sumps really aren't that hard to setup and use, but if you don't feel comfortable there are also premade overflows you can buy. Some claim to be quieter than the DIY PVC version.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

dude you cant have the intake out of the water or you lose your siphon. when you start up the pump in that picture then its going to overflow over the edge of the tank. i'll find you a picture of a good setup that was on here.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

wow thanks for the help.. okay i see how the overflow is going.. now my question.. on the far left with the 45 elbow.. is that where i run directly to the sump aquarium?? how does the natural syphon stop doing its job?? sorry to sound like such a dummy but at this i am... :-?


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

ah okay i think *** got it it can only syphon as far as the top of the pvc.. ok.. i see...


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

jfly said:


> wow thanks for the help.. okay i see how the overflow is going.. now my question.. on the far left with the 45 elbow.. is that where i run directly to the sump aquarium?? how does the natural syphon stop doing its job?? sorry to sound like such a dummy but at this i am... :-?


dont set it up like that picture imusuallyuseless made for you. when you start your pump its going to overflow your tank because there won't be any siphon.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

ok now why on the left side above the t.. what purpose is the long pvc?? and is the 45 turning down.. is that where i apply my pvc and driP?


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## hidenseek (Nov 13, 2005)

if you try using the search function at the top of the page it will net you a lot of information on sumps and overflows. give it a shot. there are lots of pictures to be found. then when you get confused you can read the write ups.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

what needs to happen is where the t is at outside of the tank well the pipe needs to actually come up to the top of the tank at the same height as your intake. and then bend back down again and head to your sump. that way you keep your siphon always even when your pump quits on you.

you can mess around with the idea by taking some airline tubing, bending it into that shape, fill it with water and then stick it under your faucet, watch it flow, then turn off the faucet and the water will stop. this way you can figure out how siphons work very easily.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

ok... if my pump quits then i dont want syphon,, right?? i dont want to syphon and fill my sump tank and then my floor right?


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

here is the design you want to follow in a sense. itll be slightly different and bigger with PVC.

http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/di ... low/70.asp


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

jfly said:


> ok... if my pump quits then i dont want syphon,, right?? i dont want to syphon and fill my sump tank and then my floor right?


thats not what will happen with a correctly made siphon. its the other way around. what you don't want is a pump that quits in a power outage, and then you lose your siphon. then when the power comes back on and the pump starts up again, the pump is going to fill up your fish tank, overflow and create a huge mess.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

basically you always want your siphon.

a siphon doesn't mean water is moving. it just means there is a vacuum so that if you add more water to one side (inside the tank) then it will move water to the left side (outside the tank). it isn't a matter of water falling.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

here is a picture of a setup that i believe will actually work. i havent done this before so anyone please correct me if im wrong. also make sure you look up the setups on google that people have actually tried. just type in to google "diy overflow aquarium".


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

this is the problem with imusuallyuseless's setup.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

okay gotcha.. i DO want to thank iamusuallyuseless.. thanks for the diagrams.. and trying to help .. thanks to all who are helping me.. the good given will return to you.. and as for adjustable flow valve.. any suggesitions on where to put it?


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

more suggestions , pictures and diagrams welcome to any new readers.. all help is appreciated


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## imusuallyuseless (Dec 28, 2005)

mepeterser2451 there was an error in the diagram I made because I was trying to do it in a hurry. However, I do believe you're wrong about it not being able to maintain siphon.


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## imusuallyuseless (Dec 28, 2005)

That's fine if you don't believe me, but I honestly don't appreciate you trying to make me look like i don't know what I'm talking about. This design has been used many times by many people. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219465


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

imusuallyuseless said:


> mepeterser2451 there was an error in the diagram I made because I was trying to do it in a hurry. However, I do believe you're wrong about it not being able to maintain siphon.


i stand corrected. i'm sorry i ever doubted you haha. yer, right, it will hold siphon. I've never seen it done that way. i always assumed if the intake was exposed it would break siphon. is the top of the pipe outside the tank open or closed?


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

nah i didnt mean to pretend to be a know it all. cause obviously i dont. sorry dude. unlike you i got lots of time and nothing to do at work so i thought i could help.


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## imusuallyuseless (Dec 28, 2005)

Sorry if that sounded snippy. That wasn't my intention. The top on the outside is the air vent to prevent a true siphon.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

sounds good. i might just try it out this summer. i was gonna build and drill a plywood tank with bulkheads but i think ill build the overflow just to see if its as easy as it looks.

but yah jfly if you can follow all that and ignore my mistakes yer probly all set.


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## imusuallyuseless (Dec 28, 2005)

As I said it's a very common design and it works, but isn't known to be the quietest thing out there. There are a few different mods on this design but the concept is basically the same. If you're trying to setup a sump cheap, then this works, but personally I'll never have another one of these on a tank inside the house. I'm a cheapskate, but I finally broke down and bought an overflow. The look and sound of this one are much more acceptable to the wife :wink:


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## imusuallyuseless (Dec 28, 2005)

*mepeterser2451*, I would just simplify your life and go ahead and drill it. This way you don't have to even worry about priming.

I had to cancel my latest 285G plywood tank because we moved upstairs. However I'm already plotting an even bigger tank 400G+ for when we buy a house. Was planning a sump as well, but since the tank is gonna be so big, I'm gonna REALLY simple a build an internal filter.


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

make sure you post the build. i need some more inspiration before i start mine this summer.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Good, now that we are all friends again  
Back to the reason for the post...
Bubba, if I was you I would stop looking to make the pipes I have work..and start looking at them as parts for a whole new plumbing set up.
What I mean is start from scratch. From overflow down.
You have an excellent oppertunity to design a system that fits your needs/wants.
http://www.aquariaforums.com/aquarium-diy-plans/
Just one of a few thousand sites that will guide you thru any config. you want.
Color me green  with envy over your find..


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

thanks guys.. so i should definetly buy and overflow box eh?? i believe its worth the investment.. and if i get one.. no worries about overflow in floor??


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

found an overflow cheap.. but says rated 75 gallons??? is that workable


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Well :-? 
Hows it going :-?


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## JALOOS (Sep 6, 2008)

jfly said:


> thanks guys.. so i should definetly buy and overflow box eh?? i believe its worth the investment.. and if i get one.. no worries about overflow in floor??


I know its worth the investment I invested in one. Trick is still to setup the level in your sump to handle the extra water that will syphon out when the power fails so it doesnt overflow out of the sump. Look for a box that also has a fitting on the top to attach an airline to a powerhead to make sure there is no air buildup in the system.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

even with the pvc overflow, there's really no reason why your sump would overflow.
its all a matter of the height of the inlet on your drain and how much volume your 
sump can handle.

as with mine, i just fill the tank about 1/2 above the inlet and my sump area can 
handle this excess water when power goes out.

so what im saying is if your inlet is more than 1" below your water line in the tank
when its full and your sump area can not handle the extra volume of water during 
power outage then you will have a flood.

heres a more detail link on how to prevent flooding your sump.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/sumpoflowsetup/ht/sumpoverflow.htm


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

thanks so much for all the help.. i will make sure to take pictures and make a post that will somehow help a newb with no understanding (such as myself) out!!! You guys are all contributing alot.. i appreciate all of the suggestions and help :thumb:


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