# Bolivian ram sexing and stocking! Any advice?



## jsmeesterr (Nov 28, 2011)

So I will be stocking my 38 gal soon.
I've decided on most of the fish but still am un sure on some.
It will be..
1 angel- forsure
Now Bolivian rams. I was thinking of getting 4? Will this many work? Could I have more? And I have no idea how to tell sexs apart and am wondering if I just pick out 3(I already have 1) that I like from the store and not even care what the sexs r. And then put them in the tank not knowing there sex? But the thing is what happens if they are all males? All females? More males than females? More females than males? What is the male to female ratio is should be?
Then I'd like to get either...
A. 2-3 peacock gudgeons
B. 2 killifish- what kind?
C. 2-3 apistogrammas?

Then I'm gunna get a school of tetras!

So what do ya think on the rams and other fish I'm questioning?
Thanks


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## jsmeesterr (Nov 28, 2011)

Also would adding a albino rainbow shark be a bad idea for this tank?


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

Yep. The apistos are bad too. 1 angel and 5 bolivians would work 4m 1f. The other fish should be non cichlid or cichlid looking, and ideally something like corys, bushynose pleco, lemon or bleedingheart tetras. As for the Bolivian, they are reverse fish. Females are dominant males are non dominant. I wouldn't trust two females in a 38.

Ideally I'd get 1f 2m and if you get a SOLID bond keep a pair. Usually they get together and break up and change partners quite a lot solely based on the female's judgement of the male's performance fertilizing, fanning, feeding fry, etc. I've seen females dump males mid egg fanning stage because they were taking short turns and try to raise the fry themselves, chasing the male away. Very unusual creatures.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=237426

My comment here and my link to another thread with my pics ought to let you sex them out. Again as you'll see, they're reverse.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

As mentioned before, no; stop trying to cram multiple dwarf cichlids into a 3 foot tank; it won't work out well. Keep it simple and don't overcomplicate things. If you absolutely want more than 1 species of dwarf cichlid, get a pair and a pair, and no other dwarves; there will be too many clashes for territory otherwise, and the cacatuoides females and inflict quite a nasty wound for something their size. The angelfish might take exception to the killis, so watch out for that. No idea what a gudgeon is though, but as long as it isn't aggressive, doesnt get huge, and doesn't give the cichlids a reason to attack it, it should be ok.

Sorry if I sounded harsh, but it's better if I'm a bit harsh than if you came home to multiple dead/injured fish.


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

_Tateurndina ocellicauda_, the Peacock Gudgeon, does not do well with Apistos, as they compete for spawning sites. The Gudgeons always get the short end of the stick in these situations. I doubt that the Bolivian Rams would be any more accepting of them, but it is possible.

Aquariam may have some odd Bolivians, as he is advising poorly on sex ratios and sexing. I've photographed my pair breeding, and the female, with a large egg tube, is the one laying. My male was larger with long filaments and lots of color. However, the male does pass very close to the eggs when fertilizing, and it is possible he has mistaken this action for egg laying.










The male is broadside to the camera. You can see how someone might mistake this for egg laying.

As a long time killifish enthusiast, I do not recommend these with Angelfish or other Cichlids. The one commonly seen in stores, the Golden Wonder, gets large and would be a threat to Angelfish fins. As others have said, Apistos and Rams, whether Bolivian or Orinoco Rams, do not get along well. Go straight for a school of Tetras, large enough that they Angels won't be able to eat them (no Neons!).


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## jsmeesterr (Nov 28, 2011)

Thanks everyone!


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