# What would you do? Empty 12g set up.



## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi all. I was jsut given an empty marineland 12g aquarium, with the filter built into the hood and all that.
I did want to do a small planted aquarium, but I jsut found out it only has a 13w CF light, which wont really be powerful enough for many plants, and to be honest, im finding it hard to be inspired by the tropical fish selection after keeping my malawis.

Now I'm thinking I could either make it a fry / hospital tanks (maybe overkill, since my mbuna are only about an inch or less right now), 
or, mabe a little shell dweller tank?

I know all about the mbuna, but very little about the shell dwellers, so any imput on those would be appreciated.
thanks!


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

As a 12 gallon you options are extremely limited. I would do a small saltwater. Alls you have to do is buy substrate and salt. Put a couple Clownfish and gobies in there. I am a huge Mbuna fan but theres not much you can do in a 12. I dont know much about shell-dwellers


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

HighVoltageSG58 said:


> I would do a small saltwater. Alls you have to do is buy substrate and salt. Put a couple Clownfish and gobies in there.


HAHAHAHA! Don't forget a hydrometer and some live rock! 12 gallons do make neat nano salt tanks. You should find a LFS that does salt if you want to do that - my guess is they will have some nano's set up - ours have several. Great thing about a small salt is you can get lots of little frags for reasonable prices and have an interesting little reef. Or, you can keep it simple and do a clown and anenome (sp?) they are fun to watch together.


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

I forgot about the hydrometer but you can get a cheap one for like 5 bucks. Live rock isnt a must but is good to have. In a 12 gallon your only gonna need like 5 pounds of live rock. I have a 10 gallon salt and its a pretty coll lokkin tank.


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

cool lookin*


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

HighVoltageSG58 said:


> cool lookin*


LOL - Fat fingers today?

You're right about the rock not being absolutely needed - but it helps get the coraline algae going faster and the tank cycled more quickly - plus you run the risk of huge ammo spike if you add live rock later - unless it is fully cured (more expensive and harder to find). Another bonus is you don't have to get live sand if you get live rock. When I get around to setting up my sea horse tank I'm going to use 50/50 live and regular sand with live rock to get the cycle started.

Salt nano's are tons of fun, I love 'em!


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

I was thinking about a nano reef, but this thing only has a 13w CF light, and i dont think thatll be enough for corals or anything fun like that.
Also, when i asked about it at the lfs, they said i was looking at around $300 to get it up and running, im about to start college, and i dont have that kind of money.


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

300 dollars?!?!?!?!?! It cost me like 60 to do mine and i had to buy a filter. Salt- $10, Crushed coral-$10, Live Rock-$20, Hydrometer-$5. For lighting i would put a reef light in there. I'm not sure if that can grow coral. I havent started to add that yet. The lfs probably was talkin about buyin a protein skimmer (not required for such a small tank) and a refractometer wich is also not needed. Coral is expensice but you dont have to buy it all at once.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

a reef light, whats that?
I;ve heard of the 50/50 cf bulbs and everything, but i havent seen any at work.
There was an article on nano-reef.com, which specifically mentions the 12g marineland i have, saying the 13w bulb would only be enough to grow low light corals.


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

a reef light is a 50/50 light. I would find out if adding another strip light would work. even without coral a saltwater with just live rock looks pretty cool. even adding a nice double stip light or a metal halide wouldnt cost 300.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=12780

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=16770


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

$300 is way too much to do a 12 gallon! I agree that no skimmer is needed. A reef light has a couple of different bulbs and is supposed to best emulate natural lighting of a reef. Sorta like a moon light some fresh water aquarists use. In a 20 gallon I don't think you really need to spend that kind of money - they are one of the most expensive parts of salt tanks. You won't be able to do hard corals - but there are plenty of nice corals that don't require as much light.

Google low light coral, you'll get an idea of what you can put it.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

okay heres what *** found.
Coralife makes a 6" 50/50 bulb specifically for the 12g marineland (Score). 
Also, marineland has a saltwater kit version of this, which is actually very highly reviewed. 
So, I think im going to run down to work to pick up some live sand and a hydrometer, then the lfs to get a little live rock, and let it start to cycle.

Anyone know how this should go? I've only been told the basics, and at the lfs, they told me if i bought a tank below the 28g size which they wanted to sell me, all the good bacteria would die :s so i wont be taking their advice to heart.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

From what I've read, live sand is overrated for cycle. Doesn't add much (similar to the way gravel from cycled fresh doesn't add much to a new tank cycle). Get fully cured rock, if you can. Most of the critter die off has occured so it will be quicker to cycle. I've done all my salt cycles with a fish - in theory you can do it with live rock and sand alone. Same basics as fresh, you wait until your water becomes stable.

And they are full of fish poop about the bacteria dying - I've seen some great nano's as small as a gallon!!


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

http://www.wikihow.com/Set-up-a-Small-Reef-Aquarium

That should help. Be patient. Make sure you dont undercycle the tank or there is a 90% chance you fish will die. Good Luck.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

yeah, i work with someone who has tonnes of nano reefs, and he just laughed with i told him. 
I think im worried about it, because of how much reefus get built up for difficulty.
one more thing, do you really need to use r/o water, or distiled?
or can you just use tap water?


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

You can use tapwater. I did. But you have to dechlorinate it. Just buy declorinator (like 3 bucks). Your fish store sounds like its trying to rip you off or talk you into wasting your money on a bigger tank and your good bacteria wont die off. In my experience the lfs dont always know what there talkin about. And as long as you cycle your water you shouldnt have any problems. I would just get crushed coral or arginite sand. Dont waste your money on live sand.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

I use tap, I'm on a well so I don't do a thing to it - it really depends what your tap water is like.

In an absolute emergency we've actually used regular salt. It was do that or the fish die. Granted, it was sea salt... For some reason my fish emergencies occur about 10pm - far too late for fish stores to be open but the grocery store was.

Just be patient, like HV mentioned. They require more time to get just right but once you're there it is not any more difficult than fresh, IMO.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

I wouldn't trust the LFS that you've been to - find a good LFS that is mainly salt. The biggest pest I had in my tank were bristle worms - they killed my 30 gallon salt and are extremely hard to get rid of if you get a major infestation - my LFS that "sorta" deals with salt the clerk says, "at least they don't hurt your fish" I just smiled... and let it go... the blasted things actually ate the fish I bought to eat them!

It's rare to get them like I got them.

Oh! One other thing - get a good clean up crew - hermit crabs and snails. I'll PM you a link I found that has a great rep - I'll be ordering from them very soon - need to update the tank i have now.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

Okay. *** decided this marineland 12 isnt for me, id rather have something with a bigger footprint, maybe a 20l or something. 
But ill definitely be persuing this nano reef idea, just not for a week or so.
pretty much, the plan is: distilles water, 
aragonite sant, live rock, 50/50 light, oceanic sea salt, hydrometer to 1.023
wait as long as i can, then add some critters
thats it for noww, any more tips?


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

sounds like a good idea. Since Its a 20 I would do a clownfish tank with some anemones.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Go for the salt - you can order stuff online since your LFS's for salt aren't that great. I have to drive about an hour for a good salt shop and and about 45 min for a good fresh. Actually, they have salt too but not as good as the other one. My fav salt place is about 1.5 hours from me... and that is if traffic is kind - and normally it isn't!


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

thats what i was thinking, a clownfish (just so i can say i have nemo *notes sarcasm) I'll maybe get a dory too, and a sea turtle, theyll be fine in a 20g right? then maybe an oscar, and a few guppies :lol:

but seriously, does anyone know what a little clown would go well with? gosh, its like starting freshwater keeping all over again :|


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Little clowns turn into big clowns. Scooter Blennies are neat and there are some awesome colored gobies out there. I had my "Nemo" with a blennie - called him "Flash Rip Rock" he was the fastest darn fish I've ever seen. If you go with the anenome, they like to eat shrimp - contrary to what I overheard at the local pet in a box store - they said they feed them "trace elements" :roll: No wonder they never looked very healthy. Don't forget you can get non-fish things like clams and feather dusters that are very cool too. Flame scallops are neat - not sure about them in a 20 gallon - but they will shoot themselves across your tank.

You'll need some crabs, I use hermits because they are cheap - but there are some beautiful ones like the emeralds who do a good job cleaning up. Shrimp are good cleaners as well. I think it was because I lost my crabs I got the bristle worm infestation.

If you think you want to go with coral later on make sure your choices are coral safe - some fish and inverts like to munch corals.


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

if by dory your talkin about blue tangs i think they need at least 80 gallons. but you could get some gobies or maybe a dwarf angle. a dwarf lion fish but then you couldnt keepthe clownfish. maybe a firefish. go on liveaquaria.com and check out some fish and see which ones you like.


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## skools717 (Mar 29, 2008)

get ten buck toothed tetras (Exodon paradoxus) if you can find em they are like priahnas

i love em
http://www.aquascapeonline.com/prodView.asp?idproduct=36&item=Exodons 2


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

i was actually joking about the finding nemo refrences... haha
thought the sea turtle gave it away.


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## Solchitlins (Jul 23, 2003)

QT or Fry tank.


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

If you are not dead set on a nano reef i would definitely keep a nano planted in mind. if your having a hard time feeling inspired with nano planteds jump on over the the plantedtank.net and check out some of the nanos. they are awesome.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Agreed ... I will be getting one of those marineland 12 gallons to make into a planted red cherry shrimp tank.

Well mostly becuase my OCD won't let me have a non 5 or 10 ending number of gallons, so the 12 gallon will bring my 38 gallons up to 50. :lol:


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

Haha. 
The one problem i had with making is planted is the light was so **** weak, you were _barely_ getting 1wpg, and thats not too much for live anything to grow, and since the light is positioned at the front of the tank, the back half is even darker.
So, Im jsut going to take this back. Another friends dad has some old tanks lying around, so im gonna check those out and see whats up, hopefully something wierd like a half 20g or something


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Talking about salt really makes me want to move faster on my sea horse tank... and now I want to do a nano reef... oh, and I really want to do the EBJD's and the "teraquarium" which is currently on the "to do next" list.


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

Because of this *** just bought a 45 gallon for saltwater


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

HighVoltageSG58 said:


> Because of this I've just bought a 45 gallon for saltwater


 :lol:

We need a smiley that rolls on the floor laughing...

Seriously!

ROFL! Dang, got dog hair in my mouth.


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

its not just because of this. I was either gonna do a tropheus or a reef tank. This article got me exited about the whole saltwater thing. I got a really good deal on this 45 gallon.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

I've been scouring CL for a month looking for a good deal on a 35g (or so) tall hex for the sea horse tank I want. So far I've only found ones that have fish in them, fish I have no desire to have... I'm glad you found a deal!


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

A seahorse tank sounds really cool. Good Luck finding a tank


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Just found a 30g hex for $80 with stand and it's empty on CL! Depending on how far away it is, this might be my tank


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

Nice. Post some pics when you get it up and running


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

I think they should make a "everything other than cichlid" section in the forum if they havent already, just for this thread .

I did some searching around the town today, but all the live sand is out of date by around 2 years, and live rock, which looks aweful, is 9.99/ lb.

looks like CL for me too


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Maybe the general aquaria forum? but.. this is about setting up a tank - lol just a salt not a cichlid.

Seriously, don't waste your money on "live" sand it doesn't add enough to the cycle to justify the cost.

WHen you're looking at live rock, find pieces that have coraline algae on it - it's the purple stuff. It's a good indication of the health of the rock.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

Ooh i know, im not going with live sand, i just though it represented the "high quality" of LFSs around here.

All the live rick here had green and brown on it, and looked more gray than white. Is that normal?


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

ry05coupe said:


> Ooh i know, im not going with live sand, i just though it represented the "high quality" of LFSs around here.


 :thumb: gotcha! is kinda sad...

Live rock should not be white! In a salt tank, if it's white it's probably dead. Do a google search on "live rock aquarium" and you'll find some decent links (and maybe you might want to consider buying online considering your lfs's quality...) Without really seeing it, I can't say if the green/brown is bad - it could be ok. Live rock isn't overly pretty without critters but it shouldn't look completely gross either.

With a salt, if you use rock, your cycle is influenced greatly by the die off in the rock, when a rock is "fully cured" 90% or so of the die off has occured making it less toxic to your new tank and the cycle faster.


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

9.99?!?!?! I only paid 6 bucks a pound for fully cured fiji live rock


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

HighVoltageSG58 said:


> 9.99?!?!?! I only paid 6 bucks a pound for fully cured fiji live rock


I think I paid about 6.00 per pound myself. ry, it looks like you're about an hour away from Louisville - might be worth a drive to find a good salt shop.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

I think i will take a ride up to louisville, *** heard of a lot of goot shops up there, including bluegrass cichlids, which i think is a sponsor of this site, so i can say the name, even though i dont think they carry marine stuff.

but surely they have something more to offer than "if your tank is < 28g, all the good bacteria will die...


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

ry05coupe said:


> but surely they have something more to offer than "if your tank is < 28g, all the good bacteria will die...


  One can hope...

At least you have a better than basic knowledge of salt now and will be able to tell if they know what the (hot burny place) they are talking about... :thumb:


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

for sure  i am definitely doing this, but *** decided i need a trip back to the uk, so im going to start saving up for that for march.
but right after that, ill be doing my reef


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Oh, cool. Are you originally from there? I'm 1st American in my family - both parents were English.


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Oh great, now I want to put together a nano reef just because I read this thread.... :lol:


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Just got my weekly newsletter from my Marine LFS - 6 gallon nano setup for about 130.00

I need to change my siggy to:

"So many tanks to create, so little $$$!  "

:lol:


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

6g nano for 130, thats actually great, but what do you get with that?

Nah, im american, but i moved there when i was ten, and i moved back here in april last year.
i was just there long enough to get a european outlook on things, so i need a trip back


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I have that same 12g tank you have. Mine is sitting in a box ready to go if i need a hospital tank. I could get it up and running in a hour or so. I was just going to drop some of the "little white things" from my aquaclear filter on top of the filter that come with the 12g and hope it is enough not to cause any huge spikes.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

GaFishMan1181 said:


> I have that same 12g tank you have. Mine is sitting in a box ready to go if i need a hospital tank. I could get it up and running in a hour or so. I was just going to drop some of the "little white things" from my aquaclear filter on top of the filter that come with the 12g and hope it is enough not to cause any huge spikes.


Run a test on it, that way you'll know what to expect if you have need of it (with luck you won't!)

ry - sounds like a biocube type - fully intergrated, lights filter etc. Have to get a heater for it, rock and sand - probably push it up to around $200. Wouldn't need much rock, just enough to seed - I'd get frags after that.

I know what you mean about a different "outlook" being raise by two brits in southern america... amazed I don't need a shrink... figure my fish keep me mellow


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

gafishman.

thats not a bad idea, anoither thing you could consider is just getting sponge and setting it beding the decorations in your tank, out of view.
from what i understand, backteria will still colonise the sponge, and that should give you a little more confidence in the secondary tank.

lively.

thats still pretty good, but i think if i got thr 6g, id be wishing i had the 12, and if i got the 12, id be wishing i had the 24.
I know its supposed to be a nano, but id rather have the biggest nano i can  haha.

but for sure.
did you spend any time over there?
this sounds wierd, but the thing i miss the most is manual transmissions, haha.
automatics drive me nuts.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

ry05coupe said:


> gafishman.
> 
> thats not a bad idea, anoither thing you could consider is just getting sponge and setting it beding the decorations in your tank, out of view.
> from what i understand, backteria will still colonise the sponge, and that should give you a little more confidence in the secondary tank.


Sponge is a good idea - when he's done with the hospital tank he can bleach it and rinse with water and dechlorinator and pop it back in for future need. Or just replace it, they are pretty cheap. I think I might do that myself!



> lively.
> 
> thats still pretty good, but i think if i got thr 6g, id be wishing i had the 12, and if i got the 12, id be wishing i had the 24.
> I know its supposed to be a nano, but id rather have the biggest nano i can  haha.


Had a 30g - it was just too big! I might go to 12 but that is about as big as I'd want to go this time. The 30g stuff ended up in the 55g when it broke...

Spent a couple of summers over there with family, lots of fun. Haven't been over in years, am hoping to be able to go over next year with 4 kids and hubby it's going to be pricey! Are you going to check out any fish shops while you're there and not the deepfried battered kind! lol

I love manual trans...but the traffic around here is horrific and I'm grateful I have an automatic now. We used to have a little 4 dr acura manual - that baby was a blast to drive on the back roads


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

See, the advantage of working at petsmart through college when the weathers like this, is i get a lot of reading done  
if youre ever in there, look for a book called 500 ways to be a better fish keeper, they cover everything, and a lot of it is good stuff.

I know we have the 24g in work, and even though they want like 300 for it :| it still looks pretty interesting. Im really fascinated with the idea of being able to hide everything in the back, and also it coming with great lighting, no retrofitting reqd.

I think i just might! maybe in just in london though.
All the fish stored in the north of ireland where i lived were like "ooh no, we dont carry cichlids, but we just got in these new fancy MOLLIES!"

so id go to the capital and theyd say "ooh, we only have one type of african "chinchiclids#2 (lool), but could we interest you in these quirky looking neon electric blue tetras?
unless theyve improved, i think ill jsut spend my time with my friends .

ooh i know, but i just miss the actual act of driving. here with an auto, people have too much time to do other stuff like talk on the phone or eat an apple or do a crossword puzzle or read a book (seen all of these.) and it just scares me.
but the backroads are what its all about with a manual  i think thats the first place im headed when i get back.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

ry05coupe said:


> See, the advantage of working at petsmart through college when the weathers like this, is i get a lot of reading done
> *if youre ever in there*, look for a book called 500 ways to be a better fish keeper, they cover everything, and a lot of it is good stuff.


ROFL!! Yeah, I'm in there... for fish supplies, dog supplies, cat supplies and lets not forget the hamster stuff! I'll have to look for that book, tomorrow or saturday... lol I'm out of test strips, again.

Those intergrated systems work really well, I'm pretty sure I paid less than 300 for my 30g - maybe 275 and that was with tax. I had it set up with sponge filters and bioballs. Water was clear as glass. Have you seen the biorbs? I saw one on display at my fav. small LFS for fresh - they had the bigger one on display - pricey but extremely cool. No clue if they work for a reef, but if the system could handle it it would be an interesting show piece.

I live one hill away from the Shenandoah Valley, lots and lots of great back roads... The terrain here remind me of the North of England - my mom is from there and she agrees. It'll be a couple of years before I can get a car smaller than a minivan... but when I get down to 2 non-driving children, I'm going to get another manual!


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Lively said:


> ROFL!! Yeah, I'm in there... for fish supplies, dog supplies, cat supplies and lets not forget the hamster stuff! I'll have to look for that book, tomorrow or saturday... lol I'm out of test strips, again.


Hahahahaaa.... I can hardly go to a pet store without bringing home a new pet, friends and family call this the ZOO!! LOL Fish, parakeets, lovebird, dogs, old grumpy cat and let us not forget the dwarf hamster.... I have to avoid the adoption areas of the store! LOL

My empty 10 gallon is looking better and better as a nano-reef... hehe I spoke with my favorite guy at the LFS tonight, went there looking for plants, came home with 5 ghost shrimp..lol but thats a different story... anyway he said he used a standard 20 gallon as his reef tank and it worked great for years.. it seems a lot of the time people want to upgrade the Bio Cubes and Aqua Cubes so it ends up costing double the money on the tank with equipment upgrades.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

califjewls said:


> My empty 10 gallon is looking better and better as a nano-reef... hehe I spoke with my favorite guy at the LFS tonight, went there looking for plants, came home with 5 ghost shrimp..lol but thats a different story... anyway he said he used a standard 20 gallon as his reef tank and it worked great for years.. it seems a lot of the time people want to upgrade the Bio Cubes and Aqua Cubes so it ends up costing double the money on the tank with equipment upgrades.


10 g is great for a nano, imo you don't really need a skimmer for that size - that alone saves $$! - just a regular filter and a small power head or two for water flow and that is dependant upon what kind of coral or fish you get. If you aren't going to try to grow coral that needs lots of light light you wouldn't really need to upgrade that either. Frags are pretty cheap so if you went for a higher light need coral you could put that at the top of the tank closer to the light source to see how it does.

I need to get a quarantine tank going...I can't get anything new for my tanks until I do... ghost shrimp sound like a good idea and a couple of froggies... I love those things.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

I local store around here has a 2.5 gallon salt tank. With one fish in it and it looked like some little coral. THe price was somewhere around $200 though.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

GaFishMan1181 said:


> I local store around here has a 2.5 gallon salt tank. With one fish in it and it looked like some little coral. THe price was somewhere around $200 though.


That sounds way too expensive. Though some salt fish can easily run you $40.00 or better and three good frags run about $70.00 - already half way there. So, I guess not. Thnking about it, not a bad deal if you want a preset up tank.

Something I just remembered, depending on your lighting source you need to take care that the tank doesn't overheat.

Edited to add: Good grief this thread has taken on a life of its own... 5 pages!


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

Yeah well this store's prices are high anyway. There peacocks are $60. And a 55 gallon with hood and lights is $220. They do have one of the nicest salt water display tanks i have ever seen. I am not sure the exact gallons but the center tank is around 220-300 and then on each corner of it they have about a 90 gallon corner tank. IT looks awsome.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

They do sound pricey. I remember seeing a spectacular salt display in a shop in Raliegh, NC - it was what got me hooked on trying salt. I also got my first JD there...


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

ooh yeah, they love the biorbs over in the uk, i remember seeing them a few years ago, but they are way over prived, and all you get in an UGF powered by an air stone anyways, so it may be hard to do a nano reef with that big tupe in the middle.
also, because the glass is curveed, it makes it really hard to concentrate on something once its set up.

I think im liking the idea of a 20 long, or maybe a 29 for the height, but im not really sure.
even a ten gallon would be good, but they just look so small!
how big do a lot of these nano fish get?

you should really take a look at that book, its gived me loads of good ideas.

ook lively, i bookede my flights today, only $500 for the round trip  
i know the economys failing, but its only benefitted me so far (apologies in adv for anyone whos lost their job :/!)

we should really keep this thread going, maybe with pic updates from people, letting us know whats going on?


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Ok so Im seriously considering setting up my 10 gallon as a nano reef this weekend, like I need another tank..  This would be my first saltwater set up and I have read quite a few threads on nano forums (some of those members are intense!) anyway, I just wanted your opinions..

I have read about "natural filtration" in a nano with just the live rock and sand? Is this something any of you have tried? Or should I also use my AquaClear 30 that I had previously on my 10g? If so do I change the media?

My plan so far is to use:
10g All-Glass tank
75-100 watt Marineland heater
Filtration: live rock and sand and possibly AQ 30
Lighting: 2 - Coralife Mini Compact Fluorescent 50/50 Lamps, would this be considered low or medium light?
Water: I was just going to purchase at the LFS

How do you guys cycle? With just live rock and sand? 2-4 weeks? Or do you add anything else?

Am I forgetting anything to begin with?


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

califjewls said:


> Ok so Im seriously considering setting up my 10 gallon as a nano reef this weekend, like I need another tank..  This would be my first saltwater set up and I have read quite a few threads on nano forums (some of those members are intense!) anyway, I just wanted your opinions..


Yeah, marine people can be a bit off the edge... lol



> I have read about "natural filtration" in a nano with just the live rock and sand? Is this something any of you have tried? Or should I also use my AquaClear 30 that I had previously on my 10g? If so do I change the media?


Never tried pure natural filtration - since this is your first salt tank I wouldn't do it. Use the AquaClear - i'm not familiar with that - i'm the pits when it comes to equipment. I'd use floss or a sponge only for removing debris since you won't be using a skimmer.



> My plan so far is to use:
> 10g All-Glass tank
> 75-100 watt Marineland heater
> Filtration: live rock and sand and possibly AQ 30
> ...


Sounds good - don't forget to get a hydrometer. If water is too expensive you can buy the salt and make your own. It's not hard. I disolve mine in hot water at high concentrations and then mix in a 5g bucket (or big tub) to get the right salt level. I'm not sure about the light - but from the produce description I think it may be med/high. My concern on a 10g is you might end up needing a chiller, not a heater with that lighting setup! Talk to the guys at your LFS about that one.



> How do you guys cycle? With just live rock and sand? 2-4 weeks? Or do you add anything else?
> 
> Am I forgetting anything to begin with?


Yup on the cycle - when you get the rock look for the coraline algee - it is often purple sometimes a bit more red - the more you see of that, the more fully "cured" the rock is. The other thing is - ask them what the salinity is of thier tanks and the temp, you want to match it as close as you can before you put the rock in to minimize die off. Get different sized rocks with decent nooks and crannies so you'll have places to put the frags when you get those.

Post pics soon!

ry - cool on the $$ for tickets! have more to say but these darned kids like eating and I'm head chef this morning! lol


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

man, this thread may not have been a good one for me to follow... I found a 5.5gal nano salt setup on clist for $100 with live rock, live sand, corals and fish. I wish I would have found out about it a few weeks earlier. I just built a new stand and could have made some room for it. Right now, there is no place to put it. oh well. I may have to make some room somewhere.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

you should  
that sounds pretty cheap too, from what *** been hearing.
did they say why theyre selling it?


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Ok so change of plans. I woke up this morning to 1 dead Calvus and 2 sickly looking, multi's fine, ghost shrimp fine, cory cat fine, so I think I got a bad batch of Calvus' so they all went back 4 total. I decided to put my Multi's back into their previous 10 gallon with the shrimp and cory cat.

So that left me with my 20 gallon long as my Nano reef. Emptied it, cleaned it and now it all begins!

What I have so far:
20G All-Glass
20lbs Live sand
20G RO water
Kent Sea Salt
AquaClear 50
Marineland Stealth 100watt

My shopping list:
1. Approx. 20lbs live rock, my LFS was completely out, so Im driving 1.5 hrs away to another fish store to get the live rock.
2. Lighting, well it looks like that is going to cost me a whole lot more than I originally intended, but isnt that how these things go... I have space limitations above my tank because there is a built in cabinet, so I have about a 6" clearance so I guess I am looking at a fixture that will just sit on top of a glass cover.. 
3. Powerhead

Future Upgrades:
Protein skimmer
UV Sterilizer

I will post photos tomorrow after I add the live rock, sand, water, etc...


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

cant wait for the pics


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Same here about the pics- busy weekend here. But, I started breaking down a broken 10g and bought stuff to make a slate bottom tank...

Found out the closest marine lfs went out of business, visited my fav. fresh lfs this afternoon and bought some watersprite for my tank.

Oh, and my JD's laid eggs yesterday!

Zack -


> man, this thread may not have been a good one for me to follow... I found a 5.5gal nano salt setup on clist for $100 with live rock, live sand, corals and fish. I wish I would have found out about it a few weeks earlier. I just built a new stand and could have made some room for it. Right now, there is no place to put it. oh well. I may have to make some room somewhere.


That's whatcha get for reading this madness! lol That was a good deal on a fully stocked 5.5! The lfs I went to today had some very nice ones set up... I want to set up my own - but how tempting they were!


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## gmaschke (Aug 23, 2008)

OOOHHHHHH!!!!! This thread is going to get me in trouble


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

gmaschke said:


> OOOHHHHHH!!!!! This thread is going to get me in trouble


ROFL! Another one sucked into the madness!


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

today at work a guy came in with the intention of setting up his own 20g nano reef, and i referred him to this, and nano-reef.com.

safe the say i was jealous as anything of him, it was like i was shopping for myself, when i was telling him what hed need. This nano stuff is fun !


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Yeah, I'm having fun with nano's via this thread - I won't be doing one any time soon. Too many other projects on my plate right now.

btw - what's ur major?


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Ok guys and gals here it is!!! Im so excited needless to say I think my guy and I are off to a great start. We traveled 2 hours to a fish store that was a slice of heaven compared to our small LFS.. I think we spent 2 hours there and this is what we came home with and the beginning of our nano..

I purchased:
30lbs of gorgeous Figi rock
Hydor Koralia 1 (400gph)
30" Twin tube strip light that they retrofitted for us with 1 Sunbrite LED System strip light, see the photo below. These lights are so cool! They last 5 years! No heat!









Sunbrite LED info:
24" Color Temp 16000K (we will be adding 1 24" 12000K LED light strip also)
Brightness more than 800LM
Power consumption is 10 watts! 

Here is the set up so far.. with flash









Flash off..









and we have some hitchhikers! A worm and a snail..









Its begun! OMG this is costing me $$$$$$$ But we are having fun!


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

califjewls said:


> Its begun! OMG this is costing me $$$$$$$ But we are having fun!


 :dancing: Yeah! Pictures!! That rock looks great - hitchhickers.. freebies lol

Good to hear the light has no heat - I know it costs extra to get that but IMO, well worth the investment!

oh, sending you a pm for a site for some oddball stuff I've not seen anywhere else. Great place for salt plants. (if anyone else want it who is lurking - pm me)

=D> =D>


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

that looks great! 
how much did it cost you to get the led lamp retrofitted and everything, and to buy it ofc?
and does it put off enough light for corals? these led lamps are so new to me, haha, but they look awesome!

lively - if you were asking me what im majoring in, im not starting real college until september  and im having trouble deciding between zoology and engineering, i dont know if i want to be rich or happy, haha. this is how *** got the time to go back to the uk


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Thanks Lively I will check out the oddball stuff! 

Ry.. the strip light fixture was $65 and the bulb was $80. I think these LED lights in general are kind of new, there seem to be many skeptics on other forums, but only time will tell for me. The guy at the store said he is slowly changing over every tank in the store and will save over $3000 a month in electricity! They are suppose to be great for corals, check out this link, it shows a tank that they have been journaling and measuring light output, etc.. the tank is gorgeous we checked it out....they compare Sun-Brite LED, Halide and Solaris lighting..

Click on Sun-Brite LED in the index at this site..
http://exotic-aquarium.com/index2.html


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Ok so I need a little help Lively.. the hydrometer I bought yesterday was cracked so they replaced it tonight and it reads 1.020 which is lower than what I need, I am new at this so what do I do to raise it to 1.022-1.024?

Thank you...


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

so 145 all in? id say thats cheaper for the 20g T5HO set up by far, im not sure on of the price of PC fxtures, but im guessing its close. plus, all the power youre going to save! 
i mean thats really the expensive part, after that its little things... even though they add up too.

all these people getting theit tanks set up is making me jealous, i may have to tap into the ireland fund :drooling:


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

califjewls said:


> Ok so I need a little help Lively.. the hydrometer I bought yesterday was cracked so they replaced it tonight and it reads 1.020 which is lower than what I need, I am new at this so what do I do to raise it to 1.022-1.024?
> 
> Thank you...


Add more salt..  This is what I do, make a very concentrate salt solution with hot water - keep it in a old milk jug or something (pour after cooled) and add it to your aquarium every few hours until you have the level you want. I'd start with 1/8 a cup at a time and check level at 15 minutes to see how it does. You want to ease it up. The critter you have could handle adding salt directly to the tank and a quick salt increase - but it is a bad practice.

Aside from the crystals irratating the critters, it will take longer for you to get an accurate reading since it doesn't mix quickly. It's also handly to have premix for when you do water changes.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

ry05coupe said:


> all these people getting theit tanks set up is making me jealous, i may have to tap into the ireland fund :drooling:


LOL - Hubby's computer went on the fritz last night - no tapping for me and probably will set me back a bit on my plans for tanks :-( On the good side - I think I have a 10g for fry now. Looks like GE Silicone1 does adhere stone to glass... Going to water test it this afternoon!


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

This is what my JD's were up to this weekend... Thought I'd share 

Satruday afternoon - they laid eggs!









Monday this is what they looked like - you can just see the tails, but some were poked out and the camera couldn't catch that.









And this morning, I found the wrigglers!


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

wooooo for babies  how long have you had those JDs? 
ooh come on, he doesnt need a computer like you _need_ a nano reef, duh!
:lol:


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

The male we've had for about 4 years, the female about 3 years. The first spawn they had was about 1.5 years ago - well, that is the first one we know of. I'm guessing the pleco ate the eggs before hatching - 'cause funnily enough about the same time the pleco went "bye-bye" we found the first load of wriggers...

I have about 100 fry in a 15g right now, I need growout tanks before my nano. I want to keep about a dozen of them and going to swap the rest at my lfs. They should be good to go in a month or two 

*laughing* and his computer makes it possible for me to afford my hobby... and eat, too. lol


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

ry05coupe said:


> ooh come on, he doesnt need a computer like you _need_ a nano reef, duh!
> :lol:


I was going to say the same thing Ry!!! Computer? Nano Reef? I say Nano Reef!!! 

I love JD's, if I had another tank, I would have them, they are beautiful! Be sure to keep posting pics as they grow!


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Lively said:


> *laughing* and his computer makes it possible for me to afford my hobby... and eat, too. lol


Oh eating is overrated....LOLLLL But the hobby well thats another story, get him a computer quick!! 

Update:
I got my SG up to 1.023 which is where I wanted it so Im good there. I added 2 Yellowtail Damsels yesterday (see the avatar, so pretty) anyway Im wondering if Im going to really ever see any spikes in water with using cured, cycled live rock and sand, but I am watching closely. I've got nothing so far..


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

califjewls said:


> Lively said:
> 
> 
> > *laughing* and his computer makes it possible for me to afford my hobby... and eat, too. lol
> ...


I dunno.. I really like food... lol

They are pretty! Great color. You might not see anything - some people find salt a breeze while others struggle with it. I think the cured rock makes all the difference. Did you get a clean up crew?

I'll keep you updated with pic of the Jacks if you keep us updated with your nano! :dancing: I love my Jacks - I think they are the best - but then I have an interesting pair.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

Lively said:


> I'll keep you updated with pic of the Jacks if you keep us updated with your nano!


i think ill hold you both to that 

im living my nano reef excitement through this, aswell as my fry raising excitement, as my mbuna havent bothered to make little ones yet  i guess theyre just too young, and some are fry themselves at less than an inch  !

I'm glad this thread took the turn towards nano reefs, what was i thinking in the beginning with a hospital tank :roll:


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

ooh and cali, i was just looking at pics of your nano and drooling, but i noticed, is there a filter, or are you relying on natural filtration? I was thinking of doing natural filtration, since i have a hydor 1 and all that just lying around.


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Lively said:


> They are pretty! Great color. You might not see anything - some people find salt a breeze while others struggle with it. I think the cured rock makes all the difference. Did you get a clean up crew?


I didn't get a clean up crew yet, I thought I should wait to see if I had any kind of a cycle. Should I get one started? If so what should I start with? If Im going to see any spikes shouldn't I see one within the next day or two? 4 complete days with live sand and water, 3 days with live rock (including a few hitchhikers) and 2 days with 2 damsels..



Lively said:


> keep you updated with pic of the Jacks if you keep us updated with your nano! :dancing: I love my Jacks - I think they are the best - but then I have an interesting pair.


I excited about watching the baby JD's grow! I thought I would be able to come by more Multi's and have babies, but I am finding it hard to find anymore Multi's, so I will get my baby fix through your JD's for now! Don't worry I will keep the pictures coming!

Lively whats your opinion on anemonies (spelling?), I want a clown fish and I love the interaction between a clown and a anemone. I had a guy at the LFS say NO anemonies but there was no explanation and I actually was asking so many other questions I forgot to actually ask why he was against anemonies. Have you had any? Is there something else thats great for a clownfish to play safely in?


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm not sure why anyone would say no anemome, the only issue's i know of with them is if they die - you have to get them out fast. And make sure you have any (largeish) intakes to filters covered with a sponge. Lost a 72 gallon reef to one that committed filtercide... it loved to wander near the intake and we ended up with anenome soup - killed almost everything in the tank. You do need to be more careful with what you put in the tank since they are toxic to most fish and some coral. The other thing is, you need to make sure they have a place to anchor - if they find a place near the back of your tank you'll need to rearrange the rock until it finds a spot that is good for it and you to see it! When we lost the anemome, the clown survived. He took to playing in the red seaweed we had. So, any bushy type plant would be good. Maybe because it is only a 20? But I've seen 5g setups with a small anemome and clown. Was that at the hour away fish place?

You should definately start thinking about your cleanup crew since you have the fishies... Crabs, snail and shrimp are all important - and no matter how cool you think a horseshoe crab is - there is no such thing as a "small" version! They all grow up to about a foot! But they do an awesome job of keeping the sand clean. It really depends on what you're going to do with the tank for the different types of crews - some are reef safe, other's aren't. I'm partial to the emerald crab and peppermint shrimp, pricey for a big tank but with a 20g it shouldn't be too bad. And, I get the kind of snail that will clean sand as well as glass and rock (don't remember what it is called)

You probably are in the clear for a cycle - but salts can crash unexpectedly. I know you're going to hate to hear this - but I'd give it a month before putting in anything you really want to keep - like a pricey anemome! And, add slowly. I'd add the clean-up crew first, at about the 2 week mark. Get some cheap shrimp for the crabs - i used the frozen salad shrimp - there won't be much for them to eat yet. And, that is what you'll feed an anemome if you get one. If you're still good at the month mark you can start adding the stuff you really want. I'd suggest 1-2 things every 2 weeks. The corals themselves won't add much bioload wise - but feeding them will.

ry - me too about the thread!


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

ry05coupe said:


> is there a filter, or are you relying on natural filtration? I was thinking of doing natural filtration, since i have a hydor 1 and all that just lying around.


I do have a AquaClear 50 (200gph) on their with 2 sponges and carbon for now. I do have 1 1/2 lbs of rock per gallon and from what I understand thats a good amount of biological filtration also. Im still considering the protein skimmer, which knowing me I will add in the next month...


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Another Update: I rearranged the rock to create more surface area for corals. I think I will add 2-3 more small pieces of live rock. Also things are starting to color up on the Figi rock, we have some green and burgundy colors so far.



















Water chemistry today:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
PH 7.8-8.0
Nitrate <5
Salinity 31
Specific gravity 1.023


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

would a 24" 20 gallon make a good nano tank? also is this natural filtration for real? does it really work.


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

GaFishMan1181 said:


> would a 24" 20 gallon make a good nano tank? also is this natural filtration for real? does it really work.


I think it would do well. And yeah, natural filtration is for real. Live rock is awesome.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

i rly want to try the natural filtration when i do mine, but it goes against every bone in my fishkeeping body not to have a filter in there.
This whole nano thing is looking a lot easier than i thought it would!
also, i i found out that im getting more for my tax refund than i though  
the only think stopping me is i dont want to have to leave it alone for the two weeks in marrch : /

cali, the tanks looking awesome :thumb:


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

ry05coupe said:


> the only think stopping me is i dont want to have to leave it alone for the two weeks in marrch : /
> 
> cali, the tanks looking awesome :thumb:


Yeah I would just start your nano reef when you get back from vacation, you don't want anything to go wrong while your gone, we read those stories time after time on these forums, its not to far away and this way you can really plan it all out, maybe gather your equipment so when you get back you can get right to it!

Thank you Ry!


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

I agree with cali - wait until you get back!

Thought you'd like to read this cali - it's about clown fish. Just got my newsletter from my MLFS (new acronym - Marine Local Fish Store - lol) And, I saw that clowns will also "bond" with frog spawn - you could add that to your nano if you don't want to do the anemome.

"Did you know that all clownfish are born unsexed with no stripes and then undergo transformation into juvenile males with beginning signs of adult coloration? The juvenile clownfish are nonreproductive until they become adult males or females. A juvenile clown only becomes a mature adult male or female if they are the senior fish in the group or pairing. The more aggressive, dominate of the clown will then transform into a female and the less aggressive, less dominate clown will become the adult male. The male-to-female switch is called protandrous hermaphroditism. The female is the largest and assumes the role of protector, charging at trespassers that infringe upon her territory. Keeping only one or two clownfish in an aquarium is best. If you have one already it has most likely become a mature, adult female and if it is quite large it will most likely accept a small male as her mate. Purchasing two juvenile male clowns will result in one becoming the dominate female and the other the dominate male. In the wild, nonreproductive juvenile clownfish seeks a new home in the tentacles of a host anemone. If the juvenile attempts to settle into a sea anemone already occupied by other clownfish, the newcomer is either chased away, or if there is vacancy, it takes a position of the lowest member of the "household". A typical clownfish society consists of one mature female, one mature male, and often a few adolescents. The dominate male and female maintain their role as the larger and only sexually mature adults in the group. Juveniles that join a male-female pair develop only to the adolescent stage and remain so, possibly for life, pending change in their social order. If disaster befalls the male, the strongest adolescent matures into a functioning male and if tragedy befalls the female, the male changes into a female to take her place and the strongest adolescent them matures into the family's new male. This cycle will continue or adolescents can move on to find a new host anemone that is not occupied and start their "family". This and much more info is available in the book Clownfishes: A Guide to Their Captive Care, Breeding & Natural History by Joyce D. Wilkerson."


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

That is very very interesting. Its incredibly ridiculous, but really cool. Thanks for sharing that. I had tossed around doing a tank with a couple clowns before. You may have just decided that for me.

I think we need more pics on this thread! haha


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

Zack2112 said:


> I think we need more pics on this thread! haha


+ more up and running nanos too  
theres a 2.5g at work that would cost like $2 to set up.

how small is too small :-?


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

i think you could pull off a 2.5 gal. *** seen lots of awesome nano planted tanks that were only 2.5 gals. I would would be willing to try it myself if I had a 2.5 gal sitting around and somewhere to put it.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

it could sit anywhere, haha. I guess lighting would be the only problem... where would i find an actintic fixture that small?

*** also heard of those mini HOBs, the azoos maybe? I really cant remember the name, but theyre at Drs F&S for like 10 bucks.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... catid=9821

thats the azoo HOB

heres a mini canister *** found, complete with mini spray bar and everything!

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=16742


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

LOL - How much?


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Thanks for that article Lively! I actually almost bought a Frogspawn today, but I ended up purchasing a Torch coral instead. I will add a Frogspawn in the future though because they were very pretty!

I have brown algae now and I put a coral in yesterday, a Pulsing Xenia, my LFS said that a Pulsing Xenia will tell you if your tank is ready for corals, if its happy it will pulse like crazy, well I swear it grew while we were gone today, its pulsing like crazy!

I took back 1 Damsel, because the other damsel was keeping it in a hole in the rock and not letting it eat. My Clownfish and Damsel get along just fine, my Clownfish is a piggy though! lol

My current CUC: 1 Turbo snail, 1 Nassirius snail, 1 Scarlet Hermit crab, 1 Cerith snail (hitchhiker)

I added 5lb more Figi rock along with some corals today. I added a leather coral, a lobo. (brain), colony polyp frag (orange), star polyp and a torch coral.

My water chemistry has been perfect, I sure hope it continues that way for a long long time..for the sake of the coral the money I've spent and my sanity..lol

I also added the other LED bulb (12000K) it is proving to be plenty of light.

Updated photo..


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## Robchester_2000 (Nov 8, 2008)

right, my wife is going to be annoyed, but could you do a low light nano reef in a tetra ten gallon with standard flourescent light fitting? she is gonna go nuts.... you see what you guys have started?


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

Looks awesome. I do have one question. If you dont mind me asking, could you tell me roughly how much you have into this setup. I wanted to give it a try but was told by the salt guy at the better LFS for salt around here that "It doesnt matter how you do it, its gonna run you a bare minimum of around 500 bucks to get it going" From the research I have done that seems steep. Im interested in trying this on a 20g I have but cant spend a whole lot on it. Im not looking for an exact number, just a ballpark estimate. Thanks!


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## Lively (Jan 13, 2009)

Robchester_2000 said:


> right, my wife is going to be annoyed, but could you do a low light nano reef in a tetra ten gallon with standard flourescent light fitting? she is gonna go nuts.... you see what you guys have started?


Yeah, you can do it but your choices in corals will be more limited, but there are plenty of nice coral that don't require high light.

Zack - Cali has put at least that much in it, but you can go cheaper. You can start up with a standard aquarium setup and not go with the high end light and you will need a powerhead for water movement. Live rock goes for about $5.00 per lb here - but I've seen it for sale on craigs list for less. It's the livestock that is going to cost you.

Cali - it looks fantastic!!! I'm jealous of the Xenia, it is my absolute favorite coral and we haven't been able to get it here for ages. And, it's true when your tank is doing well it will grow like a weed.


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Zack Lively has got it right! You can get some great looking corals that don't need the costly lighting. I knew that we wanted to do some LPS corals so we needed to put a bit more into lighting, but in shopping for corals this last weekend I really ended up liking a lot of the low light corals. I believe they are even easier to care for for the most part.

Tank 24.00 (already had)
Filter 40.00 (already had)
Stealth heater (already had)
Lighting: Twin strip light 65.00 plus 1 16000K & 1 12000K SunBrite LED light 160.00
Hydor Koralia 1 35.00
Live sand 20lbs 33.00
Seasalt 24.00
Live rock 30lbs 120.00 @ 3.99 per pound
RO water 20 gallons 10.00 from LFS
Fish and clean up crew 30.00
Corals so far 200.00 (LPS, polyps, soft corals)

So you can see the bulk of my cost is lighting and then corals, so if you choose low light corals you can save a lot of money. Heck you could do just fish and a little bit of rock and later add corals. You don't have to spend 500.00+ to get started IMO.

I just found out from a friend today that I have a neighbor 4 doors down who sells corals wholesale from his home...OMG wish I knew this before I went shopping yesterday! My friend bought several corals today good size for 60.00, I cant wait to check them out he said that he sells a little bit of everything many corals for 15.00-20.00 he's a member of the local reef club we are joining.


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## ry05coupe (Dec 30, 2008)

cali, looking even better than before! i love the clownfish too. 
They has a small one in a nano reef set up at my local LFS, and it looked great. 
keep us posted with the tank ,and what happened with the neighbor!


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## HighVoltageSG58 (Dec 6, 2008)

I only spent like 100 bucks getting my nano up and running(havent put any coral yet)

Filter 20.00

Heater 20.00

light 20.00

Salt 12.00

power head 20.00

live rock 5 pounds 25.00


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## califjewls (Dec 28, 2008)

Here is my latest update as of today... how is everyone else doing? Nanos up and running yet? 

FTS









My latest prize coral...LOL Aussie Acan Lord awww isn't he cute...hehe


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