# Jet bar DIY



## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

I am thinking about making a Jet Bar rather than a spray bar with a magnum 350.

Does anyone know of any how to's? I used search but I came up with about 100 things unrelated and gave up.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

So no one has used jets instead of the typical small streams of water?


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## I3lazd (Dec 29, 2008)

how large of a tank is it going on? you dont want too much force going into the water hence why people use spray bar


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Then why do people use multiple filters and UGJ's?

Its going on a 46 and I would like to direct a few towards the top for agitation and a few towards the bottom to keep stuff of the substrate going along the top back of my tank.

I like the idea of a UGJ but my tank is up and I dont wanna waste room so I would rather go with a jet bar instead. I also disagree with over filtering cause I hate seeing my fish get slammed around and the canister I have is more than enough I just want more agitation without adding any more appliances.


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## I3lazd (Dec 29, 2008)

use spray bar


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

No.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

JWerner2 said:


> So no one has used jets instead of the typical small streams of water?


 That's what some of my filters came with instead of spray bars. One of the newer models of cannister filter came with an elbow that fell off and the jet now points straight down instead of along the surface. The fish seem to like it and it scours that end of the tank bottom clean so I've left it off so far. A spray bar does provide back pressure which may reduce flow a bit, but also reduces the chances of cavitation harming the filter's moving parts. It's not as noisy now either.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks. My problem is that I just dont justify adding power heads and cranking up current to hit dead spots in both the water column and on the surface. Like right now for example, I have my Magnum set up with the intake on one end and the return on the other and the returning flow don't reach across my aquarium enough to keep it as agitated as I would like it to be. Now I know spray bars can do the trick but I just dont see those small streams of water trickling out causing much agitation for my tank and I would also like to control the direction of the water coming out as I said pointing some up and some on a downward like angle.

I know some filters come with them and I think Pentair makes add on pieces to make jets for both the top horizontally and for a corner vertically. I am just asking if anyone has made one them self.

Im thinking of just running some PVC with some T's spliced in here and there and crimping the one end of the T like you would a UGJ.


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## cevvin (May 2, 2008)

Right now our pump is pushing right out of a pvc pipe. We have it run along the top of the water and it agitates the water nicely. Can you just unhook the spraybar and use the pipe, and point it towards the top of the water. No need to make a jet nozzle.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

I dont have a spray bar yet.

I gave lots of things a shot. I ran it without a diffuser and added spacers under the tube to elevate it higher in the air. That kind of works but splashes and makes way to much noise as well as bubbles. I directed the diffuser up,.. and what ever else you can think of but it dont agitate enough water for my liking.

I tried placing the return in other spots like the middle but that adds way to much current and does direct flow to both sides of the tank but it is actually pretty strong and my fish get tossed around causing them to clamp fins up all the times.

The way Im thinking, if I do it this way it would give me lots of coverage and not blast my fish around. It will get stuff off of some dead spots on the substrate but not add a whole lot of extra force. I also have one of those new Whispers that I cant stand but its on just to give some agitation since the return from my Magnum does not give good coverage. If I can kick that thing I would be happy! I would probably give the stupid POS away on Craigslist.

I realize when I do my water changes and there is no current cause my filter is off, my fish like it much better and come out from hiding or the ones that don't hide actually expand fins.


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## mayadbee (Jan 16, 2009)

so how about this: spraybar (yeah, I said it) in two separate pieces of PVC, but put together in one line by a union of some sort. Make this a relatively small diameter to give you some pressure. Point one half of the bar up towards the surface, the other half of the bar down. But it sounds like your fish already don't like the amount of movement, so why you want to add more, I don't know. Anyway, you'd have to experiment with the number and size of holes, but I would get 1" or smaller diameter pipe. (do they make PVC that small?) In the other spraybar DIY I just read, start with holes of a small size and spaced 1" apart. If the pressure is too high, then drill more holes at the 1/2" spacings, or drill the existing holes the next size bigger. But to get the kind of pressure it sounds like you want, remember small diameter.

But, it's also entirely possible (probable) that the 350 just isn't powerful enough to make any sort of jet action at all.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

mayadbee said:


> so how about this: spraybar (yeah, I said it) in two separate pieces of PVC, but put together in one line by a union of some sort. Make this a relatively small diameter to give you some pressure. Point one half of the bar up towards the surface, the other half of the bar down.* But it sounds like your fish already don't like the amount of movement, so why you want to add more, I don't know.* Anyway, you'd have to experiment with the number and size of holes, but I would get 1" or smaller diameter pipe. (do they make PVC that small?) In the other spraybar DIY I just read, start with holes of a small size and spaced 1" apart. If the pressure is too high, then drill more holes at the 1/2" spacings, or drill the existing holes the next size bigger. But to get the kind of pressure it sounds like you want, remember small diameter.
> 
> But, it's also entirely possible (probable) that the 350 just isn't powerful enough to make any sort of jet action at all.


Dude, seriously,... catch on here. I am doing this to provide more agitation ( yes I said it once again ) so that I can reduce my filtration for that reason I highlighted in bold!

And I doubt a magnum wont be able to handle it.

What ever, no one likes the idea for some god forsaken reason they would rather have jets do the same for the bottom of the tank :roll: . But for some reason a very renowned company makes these types of things :lol: go figure.

Now, think about this. Ok so a spray bar in my situation will cause the surface to agitate but will it cause the water to circulate with efficiency?


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## I3lazd (Dec 29, 2008)

Man you should calm down people are just giving you there opinion if you don't want it or don't like it then quit posting. I personally think a spray bar is more than enough for what you want but whatever you are not deserving of the help you request with the attitude you have towards others suggestions. We are not here to talk down to people or laugh at them we are all here to learn and help each other progress. I'm sorry if I offended you but the way you make your points comes off arrogant to me. But I do wish you all the luck with your Jet spray.


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## 98dak83cam (Jan 16, 2006)

The post is a mess so lets see if we can clean it up - you want to add agitation, but not extra flow. How about you make a spray bar, but instead of holes alone, the holes have a "T" fitting, which on the open side you heat up to make it a nozzle so that it will come out with better pressure. You can put as few or many of the nozzles as needed. The water should come out of there with good pressure. The smaller the openning on the nozzle the more the pressure. The bigger the openning, the more flow, but less pressure. You'll have to experiment a bit.

It is basically the same general ideas as mayadbee has. You still have the same water flow coming in the tank, you are just more in control of how it is used. You could also run some pipe to various spots in the tank to move the water to different locations. By spreading out the flow you might make it so the fish don't get tossed around, but the water does get moved more efficiently.

I've built filtration similar to this, try it, it works. :thumb:


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

I3lazd said:


> Man you should calm down people are just giving you there opinion if you don't want it or don't like it then quit posting. I personally think a spray bar is more than enough for what you want but whatever you are not deserving of the help you request with the attitude you have towards others suggestions. We are not here to talk down to people or laugh at them we are all here to learn and help each other progress. I'm sorry if I offended you but the way you make your points comes off arrogant to me. But I do wish you all the luck with your Jet spray.


Really, I am interested in a jet bar, not a spray bar. Aragont? Oh well, its not the info I am looking for and I am saying it over and over again. Sorry if repeating ones self over and over leads to simple frustration, or as you put it arrogance.

I really wish others would take the time to read my full posts and use a bit of brain power to get a simple understanding of where I am coming from rather than call me names like arrogant and tell me I don't deserve the help I am not asking for time and time again. I appreciate it but really, its annoying to hear it over and over.

I have experience, and yes some with spray bars and I dont think a simple design would do enough for me so I am asking for some steps in making a jet bar, not advice on what works better. For my situation I know what will work better. I think those who are offended by me not taking the advice they give need to calm down.



> The post is a mess so lets see if we can clean it up - you want to add agitation, but not extra flow. How about you make a spray bar, but instead of holes alone, the holes have a "T" fitting, which on the open side you heat up to make it a nozzle so that it will come out with better pressure. You can put as few or many of the nozzles as needed. The water should come out of there with good pressure. The smaller the openning on the nozzle the more the pressure. The bigger the openning, the more flow, but less pressure. You'll have to experiment a bit.
> 
> It is basically the same general ideas as mayadbee has. You still have the same water flow coming in the tank, you are just more in control of how it is used. You could also run some pipe to various spots in the tank to move the water to different locations. By spreading out the flow you might make it so the fish don't get tossed around, but the water does get moved more efficiently.
> 
> I've built filtration similar to this, try it, it works.


Bingo! Thank you, as I said that is the way I want to go. Similar to a UGJ but rather than being on the bottom, on the top :thumb: Rather than use holes I would like to use T's and crimp the return side of the T.

I know people have made these and I am looking for ideas to simplify my plans. Im not asking for opinions on which would work better for ME!










Now I might just go with two jets. One going to the other side near the intake and when coming along the side of the tank near the return rather than the back both facing each other. I dont know yet but something simillar to this is my plans along with crimping the return on the T nozzles. The reason why I would like it like this rather than making small holes is that if I want to change the direction of flow in any way up or down I can!


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## MP Aqua (Jan 17, 2009)

It's an expensive piece, but perhaps a Loc-Line Circle Flow Assembly could work? It's hard to tell from the pictures whether the jets on that piece would provide a more focused flow with better pressure than the holes on a spray bar though...

Here is a link to the Loc-Line catalog (PDF file):

http://www.loc-line.com/catalog/images/locline08.pdf

And here is a link to the Loc-Line page a Drs F+S:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+10090+4090&pcatid=4090


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks, those are actually like what I have been referring to by Pentair. Actually Pentair has a spray bar and a jet bar that is like a spray bar but it has those flat nozzles for more laminar flow and then they have those pieces that you can build a custom system from scratch. Oh and they also have bars with pieces like leters H and C but are on a vertical bar. How ever Instead of buying all those pieces I would just like to DIY one.

I would like to use T fittings like mentioned and crimp the out put end of it so it looks like J and B in the pic shown.


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## mayadbee (Jan 16, 2009)

would have avoided a lot of name calling had either of the posts with the purdy pictures been the topic starter.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

I just dont see what was so hard to understand and why I would have needed to elaborate by posting pics . Its not complicated. As I initially said, it would be like a UGJ but instead of being under the substrate it would be on the top back.

No offense but, how is that hard to picture?


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

you can buy a "sample" kit of some loc-line hose and jets from modularhose.com for pretty cheap. I would give those a try. But if you really want to do a DIY build, I would suggest using 1/2" cpvc and making a closed loop system like you would for a ugj system. Mount the contraption to either the hood or the sides of the tank. Use tee's to create "Jet" locations and then use shorter pieces of cpvc and possible elbows to position the jets as desired. you could do some in the tank and some just above the water level to get some surface and underwater agetation. Paint it with kf or dye it or whatever and be done with it. I don't know how much agetation you are looking for, but my mag 350 puts out pressure equivelent to about 2 of my ugj's so don't blame the system for not working right or giving enough agetation when an under powered pump may be the real hang up. Just my $0.02 take it or leave it.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks :thumb: , thats what Im going to do ( your DIY suggestions ). I am gunna use RIT dye to dye it. But I plan on just turning some jets/T's up and some slightly down rather than mounting them above the water level.

But what do you mean by blaming? Im not blaming anything, my Magnum is freakin great!* It just dont cover enough of the surface!* Its beyond good enough at filtering and I always stood up for them here, again that fact is why I would like to get more work on the surface, so I can use just my Magnum alone cause the stupid Whisper is not needed.


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## fishEH (Sep 15, 2008)

Simply put your Mag 350 will NOT be sufficient for a "jet" bar. Spray bar yes, jet bar no. I understand you're going for the UGJ effect but on the surface. However, you will find nobody running an UGJ off their Canister filter. A separate pump is required for an UGJ or your ABJ(above gravel jet).

I have a Rena XP3 which has the same flow rate as your Mag 350. A spray bar is the most it can handle. You need to realize that 350gph is with nothing in the filter. By the time you add bio and mechanical filtration you gph is quite less.

Furthermore, aren't you just arguing semantics? What exactly is the difference between a the stream of water coming out a spray bar versus the stream of water coming out your "jet" bar. The answer would be size. A spray bar is merely a bar with small holes drilled into it. The water is passed through these holes in a jet-like stream. In order for your "jet" bar to be effective the holes will have to be so small it might as well be a spray bar.

Lastly, if you don't believe the numerous, very experienced fish keepers on this forum then why post at all. I think you should definitely make this "jet" bar and test it out, then post your results.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

> Simply put your Mag 350 will NOT be sufficient for a "jet" bar. Spray bar yes, jet bar no. I understand you're going for the UGJ effect but on the surface. However, you will find nobody running an UGJ off their Canister filter. A separate pump is required for an UGJ or your ABJ(above gravel jet).


 :lol: Ok so, my Magnum wont cut it but a pump rated lower will?



> Furthermore, aren't you just arguing semantics? What exactly is the difference between a the stream of water coming out a spray bar versus the stream of water coming out your "jet" bar. The answer would be size.


Wrong, the answer would be the ability to direct LAMINAR flow not just a series of little holes.



> Lastly, if you don't believe the numerous, very experienced fish keepers on this forum then why post at all. I think you should definitely make this "jet" bar and test it out, then post your results.


I don't understand why some people think Im not experienced :roll: I have seen it done and like you said I will do it myself, you say it wont work THEY say all I would need is a spray bar cause jets would be to much :thumb: . I got enough pointers from people that make a honest post without tossing in strategically placed sarcasm.

case closed.


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## blueinfinity (Jul 17, 2003)

JWerner2 said:


> I3lazd said:
> 
> 
> > Man you should calm down people are just giving you there opinion if you don't want it or don't like it then quit posting. I personally think a spray bar is more than enough for what you want but whatever you are not deserving of the help you request with the attitude you have towards others suggestions. We are not here to talk down to people or laugh at them we are all here to learn and help each other progress. I'm sorry if I offended you but the way you make your points comes off arrogant to me. But I do wish you all the luck with your Jet spray.
> ...


do you realize you jsut drew a spray bar with poles for holes?



JWerner2 said:


> > Simply put your Mag 350 will NOT be sufficient for a "jet" bar. Spray bar yes, jet bar no. I understand you're going for the UGJ effect but on the surface. However, you will find nobody running an UGJ off their Canister filter. A separate pump is required for an UGJ or your ABJ(above gravel jet).
> 
> 
> :lol: Ok so, my Magnum wont cut it but a pump rated lower will?
> ...


You come to ask questions you are TOLD your 350 wont have the power to do as you wish. especially with that many heads.

I'm glad you feel that YOU are able to come in here and tell EVERYone who has tanks that they are ALL doing it wrong. and you must be the one who is right.

do it and try and then come back and ask how to get more power out of the 350


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## fishEH (Sep 15, 2008)

> Ok so, my Magnum wont cut it but a pump rated lower will?


I never said anything about using a lower gph rated pump. Gph is gph. If a Mag 350 won't cut it i wouldn't reccommend a pump having a lesser gph. Common sense there.



> Wrong, the answer would be the ability to direct LAMINAR flow not just a series of little holes.


The ability to direct flow does not make it a "jet" bar. Which was my point. Which was obviously missed.



> I don't understand why some people think Im not experienced I have seen it done and like you said I will do it myself, you say it wont work THEY say all I would need is a spray bar cause jets would be to much . I got enough pointers from people that make a honest post without tossing in strategically placed sarcasm.


I never said YOU weren't experienced. I merely pointed out that there were numerous poeple on this forum with lots of experience. There is a difference. It is obvious from your posts that you do not fully read the replies and you are unwilling to heed the overwhelming advice of EVERY single person that has replied.

I ran a head loss calculator using your drawing. 
2 90's
6 exits
1 entrance
vertical length of 3
horizontal length of 3
MAg drive 350 pump (350gph)
3/4" pipe

The above scenario left a gph of 257. That is before placing any media into the filter and assumes no other fittings. 
I have a Mag 9(950gph) running from my sump return. It has two LocLine outlets and after all the fittings etc I would hardly call them "jets". More like gentle currents.

Have fun!


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## 98dak83cam (Jan 16, 2006)

$10.00 says this post gets closed within the week due to some much needed attitude adjustments. :lol:


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

> do you realize you jsut drew a spray bar with poles for holes?
> 
> You come to ask questions you are TOLD your 350 wont have the power to do as you wish. especially with that many heads.
> 
> ...


First off its a crude drawing. I like how people tell me to read the posts over and read every word yet a few people I know do have experience here did give me some good info and those that tell me Im not reading or being stubborn and arrogant are not reading **** obviously or I wouldnt have to repeat it over and over. Its a mob mentality I seen here before, that's ok. They are obviously reading the full posts just as I am. That crude drawing has no way of illustrating the true function of the jets! They are not just holes jerk, they are jets! And just like the jets on a UGJ system they are crimped at the end!!!! READ, PLEASE, PLEASE READ!!!!! As I said, one of the good things I feel about the design is the ability to adjust the jets either up or down! Cant do that with a simple hole for a pole can you?



> I never said anything about using a lower gph rated pump. Gph is gph. If a Mag 350 won't cut it i wouldn't reccommend a pump having a lesser gph. *Common sense there.*


Something tells me you didn't think that over. Good point, so why do people use pumps with a lower rating? :thumb:



> The ability to direct flow does not make it a "jet" bar. Which was my point. Which was obviously missed.


Ok, so why not. What makes it different? It is a jet but since I have the T's spliced onto a tube I can direct the flow up or down. How does that NOT make it a jet bar? All the commercial Jet bars are adjustable 



> I never said YOU weren't experienced. I merely pointed out that there were numerous poeple on this forum with lots of experience. There is a difference. It is obvious from your posts that you do not fully read the replies and you are unwilling to heed the overwhelming advice of EVERY single person that has replied.


Once again, refer to what I have said above. I have taken the advice from those that are serious enough to actually lend some help rather than just toss in some stupid unnecessary comments that keep fueling the bad attitudes! :lol:



> PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:33 am Post subject:
> Quote:
> Ok so, my Magnum wont cut it but a pump rated lower will?
> 
> ...


Again you have proved my point that it is you who is not reading anything at all. Ummm Im sure I made it clear that was not my end design and I could have as little as 2-3 jets :wink: :wink: :wink: Im sure for some reason it would need altering but it was what I came up with in 3 minutes just to give a idea.

Everyone talks about reduced flow, but I myself just like may other members use nothing but filte floss in m Magnum. I keep a generally clean tank and I will have to say I notice barely any loos of flow. Of course its common physics that I will lose a certain amount but it is not as significant as some people claim, and Im by far the only member that will make this statement.



> I would hardly call them "jets". More like gentle currents.


Another statement that makes no sense. Do you really think to qualify as jets everyone with a UGJ needs to have a force of water equivalent to a fire hose? I think not.


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## fishEH (Sep 15, 2008)

Good luck Bud.


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

This is what I did for my UGJ on my 350g but I think it could apply to what you want to do. It's basically a header made of 1" pipe to reduce frictional head loss.

The T's are 1" reducing to a 1/2". I also used a 1/2" 90 every other T fitting for directional control. When I set it up for testing in water I left everything except the header length unglued so I could play with the 1/2" fittings and get the optimal type of flow I was looking for.



















Hope this helps both in your design and getting the thread back on track. :thumb:


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I've used a few strategies to have a high turnover rate in a tank, but avoid extreme currents. I had a couple eight foot long tanks and used big pumps in them to get turnover. I had set the outflow near the bottom at one of the tanks, shooting across the top of the substrate but that didn't work because the water went all the way across, hit the far end and shot up out of the tank in a fan of water. One fix was to set the pump so it was expelling the water straight up out of a very short 1.5" pipe and then glue a 3" elbow fitting over it so that it created a kind of venturi while redirecting the water 90 degrees. The problem with that was the fish all had to be too large to get sucked up against the venturi side. That was OK in the 520 gallon tank. In the shallower tank, I used a reducer fitting that goes from 4" to 1.5" and set it on the end of the outflow pipe that was still aimed across the bottom of the tank. Both of these moderated the flow enough that there was only an inch high bump in the water surface at the end of the tank instead of a fan. In smaller tanks I've tried splitting the outflow and them aiming the two ouflows at each other from a few inches away just under the water suface. Works. Another method I've used is to discharge the water vertically near the center of the tank, creating a sort of fountain effect, but that is limited to tanks with no lids and the light source very (very!) high above the tank, and there is some overspray, so that limits it further to tanks in rooms with floors with drains and everything near the tank being water resistant. The harmonics of this sometimes create surface waves that build up until they begin sloshing out the ends of the tank until the water level is lowered a few inches and the sloshing ends.


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## AquaTester55 (Aug 16, 2006)

You could also add a reducer coupling which tapers down to the smaller ID size.
http://www.flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?c ... s-Reducing

Copy and past the URL underlined.


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks Iceblue and Mcdaphnia. I will use that advice in some way or another if possible. Sounds like some great ideas!

Aquatester, I'll be looking further into that link tonight when I get a chance.

Thanks!


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

If you are going to create fine spray out the end of the pipe, some people glue on a cap or solid plug and then drill a hole in it. I've used a threaded plug on a 2400 gallon pond. I have a couple different ones so that I can stop the flow entirely with a solid plug, switching to a bypass that is buried under the pond and so not one I would want to operate with a valve. and another one that has a garden hose bib glued into it so that I can direct the water anywhere I want with a hose, either for a spring or summer water change or when I want to fill containers to catch out the tropical fish in my climate zone 6 pond before the fall turns chilly.


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