# Melanochromis Auratus Aggression: Male/female different?



## militarybooks (Feb 1, 2014)

Hi, I can't find the answer to this anywhere. Maybe someone can help.

I know this is a very aggressive Mbuna, but all the posts about aggression mention male aggression toward females and toward other fish.

I have 2 females only. No males. One is 3 and the other 4 inches long, so both are fairly mature and about full grown. Neither shows any signs of aggression toward the other or toward any other fish. However, some of my new fish I am introducing get killed or fin-torn pretty good--but I never see it. I have one Blue Johanni who I know is aggressive and he shows it in very short bursts, but he never chases more than a foot or so, and I have never seen him fight with another fish.

(I have a 125-gallon long tank, lots of rocks and hiding place. It is a mixed cichlid tank and overall very healthy and no big issues).

So my question: Is there a difference between male and female Melanochromis Auratus aggression? Or can I expect the two females to basically be more like yellow labs in this regard.

Thanks a ton.

Ted


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

militarybooks said:


> So my question: Is there a difference between male and female Melanochromis Auratus aggression?


In most instances yes, I believe females are usually considerably less aggressive then males. 
But each fish is an individual and there circumstances and situation are always a little different. Even the same fish can be very different at different points in there lives.

The last 2 females I had, took on male coloration, and their aggression level was more similar to that of a male, at least during certain points in time.



militarybooks said:


> One is 3 and the other 4 inches long, so both are fairly mature and about full grown.


I would consider closer to 5" to be full grown. So you may yet to see a different side to their aggression.


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## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

when you add new fish how many at a time? auratus male and female can be aggressive but they should be reasonable for you in a 6ft 125g tank. i try to keep my mbuna in harem's i would push for around a dozen auratus and they should focus on each other more than the other cichlid species. I would recommend keeping auratus or johannii but not both in the same tank.


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## militarybooks (Feb 1, 2014)

Many thanks. I will keep an eye on them. Did a better measurement today. 4 and 4.3 inches long--so getting there.

My tank is under-stocked. I have (best recollections). three 3-inch labs, two 4-5 inch Blue Mooris, three 3-4 inch peacocks, two 3-4 inch dwarf jewels, two 2-inch Socolofi Albinos, six 2-inch Julies, one 4-inch blue Johanni, two 4-inch female Auratus, two 4-inch Bumblebees, three 2-3-inch Red Empresses, one 5-inch pleco, and four or five 4-5-inch Synodontis multipunctatus.

One Moori was very dominant over the other for months, and that has stopped now (both males).They hang together no issues for a couple weeks. He may chase other fish briefly, but that is it .One jewel dominates the other, but no other fish. The Johanni has a cave under a rock he digs out and chases others away, but have never seen any of my fish actually fight with any of them. The bumblebees with be an issue soon (I know), but thus far no issues at all. Unsure of sex.

When I added fish the other day I added five. 2 Peacocks and three red empresses. Did not see aggression openly, but within 36 hours one of the Peacocks was dead and being torn apart. The others all have torn fins, including one empresses nearly without a tail fin. And yet . . . I can watch the tank for an hour and see . . . nothing.

Tank has lots of rocks, lots of hiding places, some plants, etc.

Thoughts?

Ted


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## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

your tank is all over the place and i dont see how it would be successful long term. if you want to build the tank around your auratus and crabro i could suggest some aggressive mbuna that would be compatible with them. i would not recommend keeping jewels, peacocks, blue moorii, red empress, and julies with them. mbuna do best in larger groups, i would take 4 or 5 different mbuna types and expand each group out between 8 to 12 each type for your tank size. electric yellow and socolofi would not be my first choice to keep with auratus and crabro but it could probably work. I know you have 2 johanii also but i would not keep auratus and johanii in the same tank either. other option would be to scrap the mbuna and build the tank around some of your other cichlids if that suits you better. example if keeping the blue moorii is where your heart lies someone else would have to help you with that type of fish are compatible. my only african cichlid knowledge is with mbuna.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

I agree, unfortunately you don't have a group of fish that will get along long term and probably even short term like you have already experienced. I'm not at all surprised the fish you added took the beating they did from your current fish. You're going to have to remove some fish, or they'll end up taking care of things for you themselves.

I'd suggest sticking with 5 or 6 species and have around 6 individuals of each.

Here's a couple options:

Tank 1:
Yellow labs
Mooris
Peacocks
Red Empress
Synodontis multipunctatus
Add two or more species of Haplochromine types. Don't add another peacock (aulonocara) species. Have a look at this list most of these will work:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/c ... .php?cat=1

Tank 2:
Yellow labs (may possibly be too timid)
Socolofi
Choose one of: Johanni or Auratus
Bumblebee
Synodontis multipunctatus
Add two more mbuna types. Don't add another Melanochromis. I'd suggest a zebra type and maybe a Labeotropheus. Look here:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/c ... .php?cat=2

Remove:
dwarf jewels - Non rift lake cichlid. These do better on their own in pairs
Julies - if they don't get killed from aggression, they will get eaten
5-inch pleco - if this is a regular pleco they are pretty much useless fish. They don't eat much algae, and pretty much none when big. All they do is create a massive load of waste in your tank. If you want plecos look for bristlenose type.

One other tip is don't add two species that are closely related or similar in appearance, as it creates both increased chances of aggression due to competition and hybridization.

Hope this helps.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Chester B said:


> 5-inch pleco - if this is a regular pleco they are pretty much useless fish. They don't eat much algae, and pretty much none when big. All they do is create a massive load of waste in your tank. If you want plecos look for bristlenose type.


I know there are a few instances of large plecos getting lazy and eating nothing but pellets......but I couldn't disagree more with this statement. I presently have common plecos, BN plecos and Chinese algae eaters (CAE). Over time, I do end up moving fish around from different tanks. I've lost a few algae eaters over the last few years for various reasons (heater failures ect.) so had tanks briefly with no algae eater. I have had direct comparisons of what all 3 can do and how they compare to no algae eater at all. The difference is night and day. A common pleco eats far, far more algae! It's size and growth rate don't come out of thin air. Now I don't even house just a BN pleco with out at least a CAE in the tank (as well) because otherwise my tank will get over run by cyano. Unlike the common and CAE, a BN won't eat cyano!
Here's just one example:
75 gal. with a 1 common. Note how clean the glass surface are:
http://vid192.photobucket.com/albums/z116/Bern-C/027_zps84975bb9.mp4
29 gal. with 2 BN plecos. Note the algae on the glass surfaces. A young common pleco had previously kept the glass in this tank virtually spotless. 
http://vid192.photobucket.com/albums/z116/Bern-C/023_zpscdb1cae5.mp4
Not long after, this tank got over run by cyano and I had to add a CAE to eliminate it in short order.
As far as waste....it's proportional to the amount of algae they eat. When you have bare bottom tanks this is fairly obvious. BN pleco waste is thinner and less conspicuous....but in a bare bottom tank it's just as obvious. And with a BN, less is going towards growth and maintaining it's size, so it stands to reason a BN would produce even more waste proportionate to the algae it eats.

Calling a common pleco "useless' is ridiculous from my perspective. Talk about the Rodney Dangerfield of all fish!! No respect at all :lol: 
BN may be more suitable for smaller tanks, under 75 gal. but it is by no means the superior algae eater in many, many cases!


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

BC in SK said:


> Calling a common pleco "useless' is ridiculous from my perspective. Talk about the Rodney Dangerfield of all fish!! No respect at all :lol:
> BN may be more suitable for smaller tanks, under 75 gal. but it is by no means the superior algae eater in many, many cases!


Well that's interesting that you have found the opposite, because I don't know too many people who share your experiences. I'm accustomed to seeing large plecos constantly pooping and swimming upside down at feeding time to suck flakes/pellets off the surface. I found when they are small they are more interested in algae but once larger they can't be bothered.

I think this points out one very important aspect of the hobby, and that is we all have different experiences with the same species of fish. There really are very few rules, just guidelines and advice that we can pass on from personal experience. So I'll change my response and say keep the pleco if you like it and if you find it isn't working out you can remove it from the tank at a later date. How's that for a little pleco respect? :dancing: Thanks for the alternative viewpoint BC in SK. :thumb:


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## militarybooks (Feb 1, 2014)

Chester, all. Thanks a lot. Love the 2 tank suggestion/split. Want to add a couple things.

Almost all of these fish have been together since February-March. The Julies (I had them a long time ago with other cichlids) have been in the tank four months with zero issues. No fin tears, no chasing--they are completely ignored. They are one of my favorite fish. But your points are all well taken. I know a few of the fish are (or certainly will be) issues--but I like a mixed tanks and managed one well for four years many years ago to the shock and dismay of the LFS.

This is my plan, and I will keep you informed here (if you like). I am definitely going to remove the Blue Johanni. I think he is the issue, now. The 2 female Auratus may or may not be an issue eventually, but since they are nearly mature and show no sign of aggression at all, I will keep and watch. I will also watch closely the Bumblebees (another favorite) and as soon as they show aggression --thus far none--I will remove them. I had a pair of bumblebees in a mixed tank years ago, raised them to maturity, and they were peaceful--no issues for years. An occasional short chase, but that was it.


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## pfoster74 (May 13, 2012)

Chester B said:


> BC in SK said:
> 
> 
> > Calling a common pleco "useless' is ridiculous from my perspective. Talk about the Rodney Dangerfield of all fish!! No respect at all :lol:
> ...


i have common plecos in all my tanks also have bn plecos in 2 of my 5 tanks. I think the common pleco does a great job for me. I wish you luck with your tank, in my 125g i have 1 full size male crabro pushing 8 inches and he has 1 sub adult male around 5 inches and the other 10 are female crabro this set up helps alot with aggression distribution.


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