# Discus Tank Progress



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi Everyone,

I am just throwing my thoughts out here a-loud in text on the forums LOL

So I have a 90 Gallon I wanted less height example: 75 Gallon but I thought for the price take the extra water into the system, I also have a sump with a very active 950 G approx @ 5' head height turn-over per hour and water movement spans the tank - might add a power head or two to strengthen the water movement from the bottom of the tank but when adding sand the water movement was excellent.

I have completed my fishless cycle a month ago and my test subjects (I mean current live stock) platties have been doing very well - breeding etc as live bearers do.

During all my tests I am not registering any fluxuations within Ammonia / Nitrites at all and the enviroment appears very stable.

I do want this to be a planted enviroment and I do not intend to darken the water (I.e. no tannins) and I will need to run a CO2 system, any thoughts on insuring the additional CO2 does not cause too much flucuation in pH?

Just looking to keep this tidy before adding my first discus.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Ok maybe I am down with tannins - I bought a ton of wood, look forward to adding it to the tank.


----------



## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Tim, don't worry about the fluctuation in pH from CO2. It will not affect the Discus as long as the pH range stays within normal life tolerances. No osmotic shock from just CO2...


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Sadly my tank is testing at 7.8 pH :/ I think my inert sand is not so inert because the pH climbed since when I last checked! My water is really soft - I do expect the pH to drop a little when I add CO2 but I would really be on the cusp of the upper parameters.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

You might well consider some peat in a box filter in your sump, thats a higher ph then I would add Discus to, you have plants yet?


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi Jake,

At this time I do not have plants, I just bought a pressurized CO2 system and tank without thinking about the fact I have a sump! I have adjusted the sump to pull from the surface directly and returns below the water surface, leaving the surface as undisturbed as possible.

I am going for heavily planted.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

The heavy planting will help eventually, I would add the peat filter asap, how is your water hardness? Are your discus coming from soft water or reared in harder water? I would direct my water parameters towards whatever your discus are coming from. There is a wide selection now for growers across the water spectrum.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Actually beleive it or not, I live 15 minutes (walking) from a store specializing in Discus. I have discussed it with them and their comments where straight forward.

"We breed the Discus here, we use city water, we do 75% water changes and thus the discus are use to the fluxuactions from this!"

My PH is 0.3 higher as my sand has buffered the water somewhat.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

Thats a great plus Tim, go with their fish and advice. Is their water the same or close to yours?


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks Jake,

The water parameters where identical from a pH stand point both 7.5, however, I added sand as-of recently and recorded a 0.3 bump from the the original recorded amounts!, pH is measured both from API chemical tests and a pH probe.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

You have a good thing then, I'd seriously add the peat filter, and let it work along with your plantings, it should stabilize, and you are close to the stores overal. I think it will work out well for you, work on it and let it be. Send pics when its functioning as you want it to. Have you added your wood yet?


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Everything is going smoothly.

Have a pair of Bolivian rams, krebensis soon to add rummy nose tetras.

Then it is discus time


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

I am curious what the water hardness is, yours and the stores. That said I am thinking that you are going to be alright, and do well with them. Again, I would add the peat filter.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Well if interested, here is a log of my water parameters.

LINK: http://www.fishtankmates.com/share-your ... r=1&tank=7

You also have to remember that I have not added CO2 which will drop the pH considerbly, which maybe bad in some cases with the variances between tap and tank settled.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

I would be interested in seeing it a month after the planting. It should be different for sure.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Lol - I will add the link to my calendar


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi Everyone,

My tank is a little messy and the tannins are skewing the colors and washing them out but here is some *quickly* taken photos.

The plants need to grow in but I am working on it


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

Very nice thanks for sharing.

More as it ages please.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

For sure! - These are quick shots, I need to clean it up.

Its a glass box with wood and tea colored water LOL

When viewing the discus in person the colors are striking.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

Is the tanins all from the wood or are you also using peat in filters?

I am going to be running a peat filter in the reservoir for the Discus 24/7. Very hard water, so no Discus until I get an RO unit and can soften it more. Right now calcium carbonate hardness is 25.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Jake Levi said:


> Is the tanins all from the wood or are you also using peat in filters?
> 
> I am going to be running a peat filter in the reservoir for the Discus 24/7. Very hard water, so no Discus until I get an RO unit and can soften it more. Right now calcium carbonate hardness is 25.


100% from the wood - the picture was towards the end of the water cycle, it is clearing up + I had the tank running for quite awhile before adding discus. My water is not terrible - I am on city water and my TDS is low but my tactic is too keep everything as stable as possible - If I added peat to my filter I would need a strategy for the large water changes - else I would have quite the swing weekly. I would rather run slightly higher but keep the water as stable as possible.

I have a "water closet" so I store water in commercial food grade brute bins. Water out of my tap is around 7.8 pH, drops to around 7.5 pH and since I have a sump most of my Co2 is wasted by being gassed out pH drops to around 7.4 - 7.3 pH (ish) <- A wild guess being that my API Ph low kit does not have a dramatic color difference in this range. Really keeping the swings minimal.

I have an RO DI unit for my Salt water tanks but your Membranes might take a beating - I would almost drop your rejection ratio 1:6 else your costs might go through the roof.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

I am on a well, but dont want to waste the water anyhow. I am thinking of just cutting my well water with the RO, need to do some mixes once I get the unit. And a very accurate kit.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi Everyone,

I thought I would update this post with more recent pictures.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks for sharing, colors are much better !


----------



## du3ce (Sep 11, 2012)

looks great, i just converted my malawi growout to a discuss tank, havent added any discus yet


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

I am adding a box peat filter to my water reservoir, something that all my fish will profit from. Next month is adding a Jehmco air pump to the fish room, and getting some more tanks on line. I am hoping to get the RO unit late winter and to start cycling a Discus tank. I am still looking for a source of hard water bred Discus, I know that there are some out there. Several were featured in the Jack Wattley book 'Discus for the Perfectionist' but I dont know if they are still breeding or not.

Anyhow, I am going to be peat filtering my replacement water, and going from there. Its going to be a slow process but will get it started.

I really like the colors on the tank now, looking forward to more of them.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Jake Levi said:


> Thanks for sharing, colors are much better !


You are very welcome, Yeah the colors are looking nice. For awhile I was concerned if it
would of not looked better if I stuck with only 1-2 discus variations but in the end I 
like having a good mixture.

Possibly it would of looked a little more together with 2 variants.



du3ce said:


> looks great, i just converted my malawi growout to a discuss tank, havent added any discus yet


That sounds awesome, just some food for thought - they have a complex social system - it might seem
comparative to Africans but I find Africans fight for space and dominance where-as Discus socially
need that "togetherness". If you look at the Albino - his fins are a little ruffled battling the
Penang. Unfortunately the albino is last to recognize who is who (less sight than the others)

I.e. they will fight but in the end they will stick together and you need the room to allow that interaction to take place
else it will just continue.

Also, I have 2 pairs in my tank and they are aggressive at defending egg patches. They are constantly breeding,
Soon as one broad is free swimming the pairs are back at it again.

I just noticed your grow out is 55 G - they need space for the above and they get big. All of the Discus excluding
the Orange sunshine are bigger than my hand and that is a 90 G.

Not saying it won't work, just some observations I have.





Jake Levi said:


> I am adding a box peat filter to my water reservoir, something that all my fish will profit from. Next month is adding a Jehmco air pump to the fish room, and getting some more tanks on line. I am hoping to get the RO unit late winter and to start cycling a Discus tank. I am still looking for a source of hard water bred Discus, I know that there are some out there. Several were featured in the Jack Wattley book 'Discus for the Perfectionist' but I dont know if they are still breeding or not.
> 
> Anyhow, I am going to be peat filtering my replacement water, and going from there. Its going to be a slow process but will get it started.
> 
> I really like the colors on the tank now, looking forward to more of them.


For sure - sounds like a good plan. I have RO / DI systems for my salt water tanks - it is not the biggest expense in the world 
but I also have city water so it is moderately soft. It could become expensive and I would use a really high rejection rate. 6:1 minimum.

I love the colors too - I am thinking of finding a red plant to inter-mix with the plants in the background.


----------



## du3ce (Sep 11, 2012)

how many would u reccomend for a 55g?


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

du3ce said:


> how many would u reccomend for a 55g?


Before I give you my answer I think it would fair to,

A: To let you know on this forum I am known for being conservative - often I am told that my stocking suggestions are low.

B: I generally prefer understocking to some degree, I.e. if the minimum recommended is 6 for 75G I will go 6 in a 90G because it is important to have space as a fail safe.

I do not want to provide a negative answer but personally 55G is too small, maybe 4 in a 55G long but many have told me 6 is the recommended minimum.


----------



## du3ce (Sep 11, 2012)

ok thanks and no worries


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

I would actually make a post in regards to stocking the 55 G with Discus. It very well could be possible - just not something I personally would do.


----------



## du3ce (Sep 11, 2012)

i think im just gonna go with rainbows, discus requires too much attention and i have too many hobbies lol


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Also cost a lot of money


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

True on all of the above, but worth working for and doing. For me its going to take time but an answer is there to let it be doable. I am going to get a few of compatible fish with Discus home waters and work on letting them thrive in the water.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

It is like anything, if you spend time on the system - you will get the rewards for sure.

Discus personality wise are quite unique, for example:

If I slowly extend my hand they will come to it looking for food and you can make contact without any issue.
The pleco on many occasions while trying to sneak Discus food has literally crawled over the Discus who have stood their ground.
They are a graceful fish who will not let anything rush them.
I have seen them slide over a plant (exposed at the surface) coming out of the water to chase food.
They will flip horizontally to squeeze through plants and obstacles.

Just an interesting fish.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Jake Levi said:


> I am going to get a few of compatible fish with Discus home waters and work on letting them thrive in the water.


I started with Bolivian Rams and then with German Blue Rams as my "test". I have thrown in a Kirb and some Congo Tetras as well.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

This has been the kind of experiences that I have had with Discus. A much different fish from others I have kept. I miss them. I am wishing I had softer water, but looking at how to deal with that. It will be.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

How hare is hard - are you on well water?


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

Yes, very hard and high carbonate.

I am looking at mixing with half RO water and running a box filter with peat in the reservoir. I also have a number of South American cichlids that I think would profit from this.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

For sure - that is a popular solution to the problem. What is your water change strategy?


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

It seems like the most doable. And all the others will profit by it.

I try to do around 10% water change 5-6 times a week. But I feed often.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

What will be the mix ratio between tap vs RO? 
Are you doing RO / DI or just RO?
How many gallons will / is your tank?


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

I would expect 50/50. Just RO.

Most of my tanks are breeder 37s or breeder 50s, I do plan to get a couple 75s to grow out some Discus, then pairs would go into the 50s. I have other fish too, Angels and Severums and some Jack Dempseys, plus some livebearers, and BN Plecos.

Also planning two endangered species of Tilapia.

These are my plans that I am working towards, in two weeks getting a bigger Jehmco air pump.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

(37 + 50 + (75 * 2) + (50 * 2) = 337 G) * 0.10 = 33.7 G RO water a day.

It is doable! You would have the water at it's peak within 10 days! (, plus you will need a little extra for evaporation.)

My entire system is running 110 G and I am conducting 75% water changes a week @ (110 G * 0.75) = 82.5 G so 5% more than you are doing in ratio. My evaporation is about 2-3 G a day on this tank.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

That sounds good.

I am taking it slowly as I make the other South American fish comfortable. So far so good with the Angels and the Severums.

Soon will introduce some Rams and others, while I adjust the system. I have another rack to build for more 50s and 37s as well as some smaller tanks, 29s, 20s and 10s, all for cultures and fry growout. Along the way I am adding a couple 75s and/or larger. I hope to have it all functional by late spring or early summer.

I will probably have between 1000 and 1500 gallons by fall. Which of course will mean some serious help with water changes and water quality maintinence.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Severums and Angels get on ok?


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

Mine now are in separate tanks, but in the past I have kept juveniles up to Angel pairing off sizes together with no problems, the Angels each time though were larger then the Severums. I prefer single species tanks, with a pleco or three in each tank. I do have some livebearers in the Severum tanks but they are big ones, swords and mollys, bigger then the Severumns. All my tanks are bare bottom, with some potted plants and floating plants depending on the fish in them. My Jack Dempseys are by themselves, hoping to find a couple large plecos for their tank, they mauled small ones.


----------



## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Jake Levi said:


> My Jack Dempseys are by themselves, hoping to find a couple large plecos for their tank, they mauled small ones.


Absolutely, for highly territorial fish - in my opinion, developing the environment is important. Without providing a visual break - the pleco is not provided with means to escape the sight reaction.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

So true, I am just keeping the plecos out of that tank, I like them also, no sense in exposing them to that, the Dempseys have pots, caves and plastic plants, and the sponge filter so they have lots of hides, so I wipe the glass myself.It looks like I have two males and a female, I may be taking the one out in a month or three.


----------

