# This is a confusing hobby. :)



## BryCola (Mar 29, 2016)

Just joined the site, so first of all...hello. Just now jumping into Cichlids, but I've had aquariums for about 30 years...freshwater and saltwater. But I've always stayed away from Cichlids because I didn't want a war zone in my aquarium. But I'm ready to give it a try. My 75 gallon is cycling right now (fishless of course), so I'm in the planning stages. I had NO idea how many different varieties of Cichlids there were. I've read so much, I think I'm starting to dream about fish. So, I've decided to have Haps and Peacocks...but I read that you still have to be careful to get compatible ones. I even printed off a chart that supposedly lists which fish are compatible...but the list is huge. After looking on a site for an online retailer, I saw one of the options was for "Assorted Haps and Peacocks", all male...$20 each. I was thinking about doing that because they say they will choose compatible fish for you...which sounds good to me. Any opinions on this? Should I trust an online retailer to pick out my fish, or will they just choose ones they want to get rid of?

Thanks for any info!


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

I wouldn't do that, personally, but maybe some other folks here have tried it.


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## kwang (Sep 16, 2012)

When I started keeping African Cichlids years ago I also chose the " Assorted " varieties from a online retailer and I got mixed results. Some fish were compatible and others were not. Although mine were "hand picked Assorted Mbunas", which are notoriously aggressive, they still attacked each other and few years later my stock is down to less than half. Some I had to re-home and some were killed.
Bottom line is that there is no guarantee any African Cichlids will be compatible. On paper it may say they can co-exist but you just never know.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Members have reported that assortment fish are not all compatible. Half the fun of the hobby is choosing your species! Don't take the word of retailers since they need to sell fish to live. There really aren't that many choices since you can have no look-alikes...among peacocks one red, one blue, one yellow and not much more variation! Of course that is an over-simplification.

Check out the All-male tank article in the Cichlid-forum Library to be sure you are ready for the challenges of an all-male tank.

I'd plan on paying more like $50/fish for an excellent chance of a male and pure species with collection point. There are some $30 species out there, but more $50 than $30.


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## sirdavidofdiscus (Dec 8, 2006)

To me assorted really means a very high chance of hybrids. Be careful which retailer you go to.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Agreed. Most times you get what you pay for.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Welcome to Cichlid-forum by the way!


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

I would start with mbunas and not screw around with haps and peacocks as your first cichlids.


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## BryCola (Mar 29, 2016)

"To me assorted really means a very high chance of hybrids."

The online retailer I was looking at is a sponsor of this site...and has lots of good reviews. So I feel a LITTLE better about them.

"I would start with mbunas and not screw around with haps and peacocks as your first cichlids."

I'm certainly open to that, but I read that Mbunas are more aggressive than Haps and Peacocks, and hence more difficult for Cichlid beginners. Is this not true? Why do you recommend Mbunas first?

Again...I really appreciate the help.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

Generally speaking, yes mbuna are more aggressive than haps and peacocks. If you have your heart set on Haps and Peacocks, you can do a small breeding group of one of each type in a 75 IMO. Do some research(more than you have!) and pick out 1 peacock species and a hap species that doesn't get too big(6-8" max) or look similar to the peacock. A male and 3-4 females of each would probably suffice. If getting sexed individuals is not possible, buy a group of 8 or so juveniles and grow them out. Some of the enjoyment of this hobby is watching them develop, seeing dominant males emerge, followed by natural breeding behavior. If you have extra males, they are easy to sell/trade later to get down to the right ratio.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

With mbunas the more you have the more pacific. So it's easy to keep them in control. With SA cichlids it's much more likely you wind up with one fish - happens to me every time. I am pretty sure it would be the same with haps as well. They are aggressive enough for it to be an issue and big enough you can't really have that large of a group.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

Fish Jerk said:


> With mbunas the more you have the more pacific. So it's easy to keep them in control. With SA cichlids it's much more likely you wind up with one fish - happens to me every time. I am pretty sure it would be the same with haps as well. They are aggressive enough for it to be an issue and big enough you can't really have that large of a group.


To the OP, there is so much wrong with this statement, I really don't know where to start. These are extreme generalizations that are very misleading, and in reality you'll find mostly false if you do your research and get advice from more experienced keepers.


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## BryCola (Mar 29, 2016)

Hmmm...I think this thread confused me more.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

For a first time african keeper mbuna is definitely the easiest. First get some dither fish in there like some giant danios and rainbow fish. Plus a bunch of rocks, dozens of hiding spaces. Then get about 20-30 assorted juvies and you are good to go. Easy species are yellow labs, rusties. From there you can add all kinds that will be compatible. I usually have a little of everything all at once, the more the merrier. Just don't get ones with similar colors or they will crossbreed.



DrgRcr said:


> Fish Jerk said:
> 
> 
> > With mbunas the more you have the more pacific. So it's easy to keep them in control. With SA cichlids it's much more likely you wind up with one fish - happens to me every time. I am pretty sure it would be the same with haps as well. They are aggressive enough for it to be an issue and big enough you can't really have that large of a group.
> ...


30+ years is inexperienced? lol

It's ridiculous to come out and say a mixed tank is going to be easier to keep than an mbuna tank.

Mbunas are more aggressive but that's little to do with tank outcome, which is more about compatibility and decor in tank etc.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

Compatibility, which is definitely a consideration, can become absolutely irrelevant when it comes to Mbuna aggression. Even the "docile" yellow labs can be down right nasty, I've seen it in a Mbuna tank with compatible species and the proper setup. 
30 years is meaningless when your statement includes "I'm pretty sure", lol. It seems that many replies I've read from you on here is either combative, off topic, or rude. You might try a different angle if you want people to take your "experience" a little more seriously. Especially being new to the site.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

BryCola, there are many opinions and that can be confusing, absolutely.

FishJerk is a newer member (not disputing experience) so still getting to know his approach to fishkeeping.

DrgRcr I know personally from local auctions and I buy fish from him...one of the few hobbyists I will buy from by the way.

Both have their points.

My two cents? I find mixed gender easier than all male, regardless of whether it is mbuna or haps or peacocks. I often recommend mbuna as a first tank, mostly because newbies are often attracted by fish that have colorful females. Aggression can be managed, good stocking is the trick.

In an all-male tank I would not even try mbuna (although many have) and I would say haps and peacocks are easier. But I also would not recommend all-male as a first cichlid tank.


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## BryCola (Mar 29, 2016)

Thanks for the replies...y'all have already changed my mind on a few things. First of all, I've decided to go with mbuna...and NOT all male. I had originally read that haps and peacocks are best for a Cichlid newbie...but now I'm thinking that may not be the case.

So...after reading more and more about mbuna, and which ones can be kept together...it seems I keep seeing that it's best to have 1 male to several females. So...I went looking at the online retailers...and most of the fish I saw were unsexed. And a few were males. So, I don't know how to follow that advice about 1 male to several females when most are unsexed. Sounds like it's just a roll of the dice. Order about 5 or 6 of a particular fish and hope for the best. That doesn't sound like a great idea, but not sure how else to handle that.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

The usual method when buying juvenile or unsexed fish, is to buy 6 or 8 and remove unwanted males as they mature. Some LFS will buy or give credit for unwanted fish at a much reduced price or if you have a local fish club, you may be able to sell them to members at meetings or auctions.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I agree. Local fish clubs are a great source of groups of younger fish that you can grow up. Often better quality and health than available at stores.

Mbuna are easily bred by most aquarists and readily available at most club swaps or auctions. There is a South Carolina Aquaria Association that is having an upcoming swap in April. However the club appears to be struggling and I am not sure how much longer it will remain active. I did not find any other freshwater clubs in that area in a quick google search.

Andy


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

BryCola said:


> it seems I keep seeing that it's best to have 1 male to several females. So, I don't know how to follow that advice about 1 male to several females when most are unsexed.


As others have stated, the "best way" of getting the right ratio is to buy twice as many Juvenile fishes as you want females (Ex: If you need/want 4 females, buy 8 total fishes), but you are right==a **** shot. Me, I try and get 10 to 12 juvies and hope for about 4-5 females and keep removing the extra males.

BUT......... There are places that sell adult Males with Adult Females, it just require more digging and asking---and then there STILL maybe an extra male among the group.

Me, the fun is watching them grow and seeing the dominate males mature.

With Rift Lakes, it is not a "Buy the fishes you want, put in tank and forget" hobby.


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