# 180 Gallon tank ideas



## Kevin007 (Jul 20, 2008)

I just got into mbunas 2 months ago to give it a try. I am in love with african cichlids now! I needed a shakeup for my old artificial looking tropical fish tank and went ahead and made the change.

What I like most about the tank is the maintenance, and the cheap cost of setting it up (play sand + limestone).

I just stripped my first cichlid and got 6 fry, I think I want to get a bigger tank for more cichlids.

1. If I were to get a 180 Gallon tank with limestone and play sand what kind of fish would you recommend me to have?

2. What should the filtration be like? I have a eheim 2217 on a 55 Gallon and the water is crystal clear. Is the FX5 and 2217 enough for a 180 Gallon tank?

3. Are lake tanganyika fish generally more expensive then mbunas? do they breed easily? I love to raise baby fish 

4. Are the 3D backgrounds worth it? I figured a 2 ft depth should be good enough to fit a 3D background.

Any pictures? :thumb:


----------



## Riser179 (Oct 17, 2008)

> Are the 3D backgrounds worth it? I figured a 2 ft depth should be good enough to fit a 3D background.


Good to see you've got the bug like the rest of us. There are far better qualified people on this board to answer your other questions but I can tell you that the 3D backgrounds are fantastic !

I have the Aquaterra Slimline & it looks awesome :thumb: Their Malawi rock is even nicer if you have the room and can afford it or if you can make your own 3D background and it will look great too. There is a lot of info in the DIY section to help you out.

Make sure you post some pictures when you have it all set up !


----------



## Kevin007 (Jul 20, 2008)

Hi there, this is all in the planning stage as I was hoping I trade in some fry in the near future for new fish.

If it does happen, I'll be sure to post pictures.

Oh and the backgrounds are expensive! Almost 1/3 of the tank itself, I think I can buy real rocks for that price! But on the other hand, the effect is amazing!

I'm leaning towards lake malawi fish and I'm just seeing what options I have.


----------



## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Kevin,

If you're looking for an FX5, PM me and I can point you to a store in Toronto that has them for a nice low price - lower than you can get online.

kevin


----------



## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

The obesession you claim to have about malawi fish is formerly called malawi fever. I have a pretty serious case myself.

If you plan to breed and distribute mbuna fry, you dont need a 180 because there are a limited amount of species you can keep in there anyways. (to prevent cross-breeding) Plus getting holding females would be awful.

I would go with a 125 if you want mbuna. If you want the 180 i would either go as a tang community or malawi haps.

If your doing mbuna in the 125....... i would mix up HOB filters (emperors most likely) and I would buy a powerful cannister filter.

for the stock-list. I would stick to 5 species:
-At least one type of Cynotilapia. (my favs are, cobue, white top hara, sp. ndumbi, jalo reef)
-most likely yellow labs or i think hongi are nicer.
- If you dont have yellow labs, i would think of saulosi to fill that void. Males are cool too
- If you choose the saulosi instead of labs, you could do red zebra. There are nice strains out there and I have seen really awesome OB's
-Melanchromis Maingano.
-If you decide to go with the yellow labs, without saulosi and red zebra, demasoni are really cool little fish.

The other way to incorporate demasoni would be with the red zebra, cynotilapia, Lab. hongi and Msobo instead of the saulosi. The males arent as similar to demasoni males like the saulosi are.

good luck. :thumb:


----------



## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

For a 120 I'm constructing I'm (currently) going with these 5 cichlids:

5-9 Labidochromis caeruleus - your classic Yellow Lab. Very hard to find good ones.
15 Pseudotropheus demasoni - a dwarf in size but not attitude.
6 Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Ngara) These guys grow FAST and spend more time out in the open than your average Mbuna - the Msuli is a more colourful variant.
6 Labeotropheus trewavasae (if I can't get these I will go with Labeotropheus fuelleborni - with both these species, I just LOVE their goofy noses).
6 Pseudotropheus socolofi (Albino) for some brightness.

If I strike out on the trewavasae or the fuelleborni, I will try to get Labidochromis sp. "Hongi" (SRT), because I love the male's colouring.

Lastly, I'm going to get 6 Synodontis multipunctata for clean up crew. But if you want to breed, they'll try to eat the Mbuna eggs as they're spawning.

kevin


----------



## Kevin007 (Jul 20, 2008)

Hi there! Great ideas.One of my main goal is to not have WW3 in the tank :lol: .

I currently have

7 yellow labs
6 aceis
5 rusties
1 red tailed black shark

in a 55 gallon tank with a HOB +2217. I'm very satisfied and I'm just looking for the same success in more water volume.

My quality yellow labs are breeding so I'll trade in some fry in the future for new fish in the 180. Since they are breeding I'll keep alot of them for the 180, I like yellow 

Is it possible to keep haps AND mbunas? that'll look pretty cool

As for the tangs, the problem is their price, very very expensive here in toronto, ridley where do you get your cichlids?

The multicats are $20 each for 1 inchers and $40 for wild adults.

I'm very interesting in the demasoni as well, but those guys are monsters and needs to be kept in huge groups with only 1 male, that'll be a problem :lol:

Oh and if I do keep mbunas in a 180 gallon with tons of rocks, is there a chance that I can just leave the fry in there and not strip the mom? I mean if the tank is large enough...?


----------



## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

> Is it possible to keep haps AND mbunas? that'll look pretty cool


You can find some members who have done it, but they essentially live in different biotopes. 180 is big, but it ain't two biotopes. The default answer is "no."



> As for the tangs, the problem is their price, very very expensive here in toronto, ridley where do you get your cichlids?


I have no Tangs, sorry.



> The multicats are $20 each for 1 inchers and $40 for wild adults.


You can find them a bit cheaper online (check the reviews section right here on this site) but once you factor shipping, $20 isn't a bad local price if the quality is good.



> Oh and if I do keep mbunas in a 180 gallon with tons of rocks, is there a chance that I can just leave the fry in there and not strip the mom? I mean if the tank is large enough...?


Yes. With the right amount of hiding spots, some fry will survive - you just may not see them between leaving mom and 3 weeks old.


----------



## Kevin007 (Jul 20, 2008)

Nice! I have some good news (for me anyway)

My parents know this owner to this restaurant that should be going out of business, they have this massive fish tank that they use for room divider, I might be able to pick it up for a good price.

Its this one (last one)

http://www.jeboaquarium.com/R2%20Series ... ariums.htm

Whats the general consensus on Jebo aquariums?


----------



## Kevin007 (Jul 20, 2008)

I was thinking about tangs yesterday to see my options. I'm still deciding but if I do go with mbunas and a 180 gallon I'll go with..

20 Yellow Labs (or more)
15 Aceis
15 Rusties 
1 RTBS (had him for a long time)
15 Multi cats (might sub for clown loaches if too expensive)
3 BN Plecos

^ That is what I will keep for sure

- I want a large group of demasonis (15-25) but their agressive nature scares me
- the afra jalo reef are pretty cool as well
- salousi (if i dont get the demasonis)
- Labeotropheus trewavasae (i love thier noses too)
- Black aceis

So..yea I'm interested in the fish listed above, how do you think I should stock them? I'll be buying juvies.


----------



## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

> So..yea I'm interested in the fish listed above, how do you think I should stock them? I'll be buying juvies.


This is where I defer to the experts, since I have a 38 gallon with 8 cichlids!


----------



## Demasonian (Oct 23, 2005)

Kevin007 said:


> I was thinking about tangs yesterday to see my options.
> 
> - I want a large group of demasonis (15-25) but their agressive nature scares me
> - the afra jalo reef are pretty cool as well
> ...


Can't go wrong with either tangs or mbuna in this tank. Both great fish although, lately, I've found myself turning my mbuna tank into a tang tank!! A large one like yours could house a wide variety of the more spectacular tang types, including Frontosa or tropheus, jumbo cyps, Foai etc. As for prices, tangs tend to be a little more money, but you can save cash by looking for local breeders or shopping online. I know of at least one good dealer in Toronto, I'm sure there are others here who could make recommendations.

With respect to demasoni, don't be afraid!! Kept in sufficient numbers in a tank that size, they won't be a problem. They only pick on each other and with 20 or more fish in there, they'll be fine. If you get them, though, I'd pass on the afras as well as the saulosi -- too similar.

In terms of stocking, do a fishless cycle and throw them all in at once as juvies. For numbers, I'd do 6 species, 10 fish each for regular to large size mbuna (like Acei) and 15 fish plus for the dwarves (like demasoni, saulosi or yellow labs).


----------



## Kevin007 (Jul 20, 2008)

What I'll probably do is raise the mbunas I currently have, get them to breed, keep some fry for the future tank as well as selling some to help with the funding of the 180.

Speaking of cycling, Is there enough beneficial bacteria in a Eheim 2217 and Topfin HOB that has been running on a 55G?

What mbunas would you suggest me to add if I wanted more variety and colour? Maybe a few haps?

EDIT: Oh and what is your experience on BN Plecs? Do they get beat up with mbunas?


----------



## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Kevin007 said:


> Oh and what is your experience on BN Plecs? Do they get beat up with mbunas?


I can only speak for myself, but I have a 38 G with 2 BN who live a pretty happy lives. I have one small piece of wood buried in my rocks (they like to rasp on it), and lots of rocks - but they don't get chased as I have pretty tame Mbunas. (you can see in "my tanks")


----------



## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Kevin,
IMO, Keep your current fish, for the 180. Labs, Acei, and Rusties. Add Peacock groups or Single male peacocks. I have a 100 gallon I am trying with 6 Labs, 4 Acei, 6 Rusties, and a Jacobfreibergi, Sunshine, and OB male Peacocks, and A Proto.Taiwan Reef. Then, you could do a 55 gallon Tang with Calvus, julies, Cyps, etc. Or, if your doing mbuna only, think about Cyno white hara, or Ps. Blue Dolphins to round out your colors. I agree with Bac, you will have a difficult time getting holding females out of a 180, so it would be best to consider it a show tank. I rarely catch females in my 125. If you want to breed, stick with 55 gallon tanks! They are much easier to manage! Just my .02


----------



## Grey Legion (Apr 11, 2005)

Kevin007 said:


> 15 Multi cats (might sub for clown loaches if too expensive)
> 3 BN Plecos
> 
> ^ That is what I will keep for sure


I would stay away from BN Pleco's from my experience they do not fair well in a Malawi setup

Also Clown Loaches and African Cichlids are a NO NO from my readings, so you may want to reconsider your clean up crew ( nothing beats a water change )

:thumb:


----------



## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

Lots of great advice here.

I'll second the notion of the 180 not being a good breeder tank. I have trouble getting females out of my heavily rocked 90, so I can't imagine working with twice the size! Make it a nice show tank, and don't worry about it. If you want to breed, keep the 55, and use the best specimens in there for breeding. Then, take their fry, and put them in the show tank! Best of both worlds. :thumb:

My fish breed in the 90, and I never bother pulling any holding females. There's plenty of rock in there for hiding places, and I let Darwin do his thing. The smarter, faster, stronger fry survive, the weaker make treats for hungry fish. You'll get some new fry that way, but not nearly as many as in a breeding set up.

I like the Lab/Rustie/Acei combo, as I have all those, and everyone plays nicely. I also have P. socolofi, and it adds a nice dash of blue, although these can be a little more aggressive than the rest of the tank. On the other hand, I've had much more trouble with zebras or elongatus agression. At least the alpha socolofi doesn't kill anyone.

What substrate? I have pool filter sand, and it looks good. It might wash out the colors ( or lack of) in the albino socolofi, so I'd go with the blue variant.


----------



## Kevin007 (Jul 20, 2008)

Hey guys, I'm kinda late, but I was going around looking for good deals. 

Its not that I like to breed my cichlids (I sure as **** wouldn't want to get rid of them) but I think I'd enjoy seeing a few extra fishes every few months popping out, slowly increasing my population, seeing a few fry here and there for entertainment's sake  I was thinking of creaing 2 large 'fry piles' on the 2 back corners underneath the huge boulders, or anything to increase the chance of survival. The survival rate should be quite high right? I mean a 180G is quite big.

mithesaint- I'm pretty optimistic if fry can survive in your 90, it probably can in the 180.

The Lab/Rustie/Acei combo is the best, I'll be upping the numbers on those, adding a huge colony of dems and MAYBE some peacocks. or dolphins (I don't like the hump though).

For substrate, I'm going to use playsand, $7 for 20lb(or kg) and one bag was good enough for my 55 Gallon.

Grey Legion - I am hearing lots of NOS! for CLs, I'm torn because I have seen people with success with them, on the other hand, they might get a bad case of ick and they don't really fit in a theme mbunas. They are beautiful and I always wanted to get a big tank to have them though.

As for the BN plecs, I'm having some trouble with algae in my 55 G, the rocks are getting pretty dirty looking, I really don't like the look. I figured 55G is too small for BN plecs, but a 180 might be ok, with a large tank, you can break more rules  (and they breed easily too, I love baby fish)

Floridagirl - I really want peacocks too, not alot but maybe a small group hang our near the front of the tank, away from the mbunas and be my centerpiece or something (1 or 2 species)

Rideley25 - Thanks, I'll have more confidence to keep the BNs now!

20 Yellow Labs
15 Aceis
15 Rusties
15- 25 Demasoni
1 RTBS 
15 Bottom feeders
3 BN Plecos 
x amount of Peacocks

I'll start out the 180 by putting all of my yellow lab, aceis, rusties AND their fry in the 180 when they are large enough to not get eaten, and let them populate the tank themselves, I won't remove any until the tank is clearly over stocked. I'll buy dems and let their colony size increase in time, hopefully 40-60 with fishes of all sizes.


----------



## Kevin007 (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh and one more question: How important is driftwood for BN plecs? I hate the tannins

and will I need more water circulation for this tank? I plan on running 2 Fluval FX5s and 1 Eheim 2217, the eheim spray bar on the center back glass, the 2 FX5 outputs on each of the 2 corners hidden in the rocks or something.

Are powerheads necessary? I think the 2 huge rock piles that I plan for the 2 corners will have some circulation problems, which is why I have decided to put the 2 fluval outputs inside, is it more beneficial to buy some powerheads? If so which kind? Maxi jet? hydor? hagen?


----------



## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Kevin007 said:


> Oh and one more question: How important is driftwood for BN plecs? I hate the tannins


http://www.planetcatfish.com/cotm/cotm. ... cle_id=112

I understand that it's not necessary, but since you're throwing the poor buggers into hard, basic water, it's nice to give them a little piece of their own biotope. The wood in my tank in no more than 6" long. If you want to avoid the tannis, you can always soak it for a few weeks first. If you're putting a small piece of wood in a tank that big, you won't have tannin/pH issues. And if you do go with a small piece, splurge and get it from an LFS - safer that way.


----------



## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

Kevin007 said:


> Oh and one more question: How important is driftwood for BN plecs? I hate the tannins
> 
> and will I need more water circulation for this tank? I plan on running 2 Fluval FX5s and 1 Eheim 2217, the eheim spray bar on the center back glass, the 2 FX5 outputs on each of the 2 corners hidden in the rocks or something.
> 
> Are powerheads necessary? I think the 2 huge rock piles that I plan for the 2 corners will have some circulation problems, which is why I have decided to put the 2 fluval outputs inside, is it more beneficial to buy some powerheads? If so which kind? Maxi jet? hydor? hagen?


I'll second whoever said to pass on the BN plecos. They're a bit timid and unarmed for a cichlid tank. If you don't like algae, use a shorter duration of light, or a less intense light. The algae used to bother me too, but I've become accustomed to it, and actually get annoyed when I rearrange and have to look at a clean rock till it gets covered with algae. As long as it's mild, and not taking over the tank, I prefer the established look, rather than the "I just put this tank together yesterday" look that new tanks have.

In terms of filtration/circulation, I'd wait and see for now. You have plenty of filtration, and water circulation will depend on how you have the tank decorated. Lots of rock might call for a powerhead or two, but otherwise you might be ok. If you're putting the rock piles in place for fry, I wouldn't worry about circulation in them. Fry don't make that much waste, and if there's too much current, that won't help the fry in their quest for survival. Make sure the poo isn't piling up, and that should be enough.


----------

