# I think my fish have the Ich



## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

Hello, my fish started off flashing against objects every once and a while and is now very consistent. I thought the water of to soft so added some buffers to find they still flash all the time. Most of them anyway. The ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all 0. I noticed white spots on their gills and their fins. Think its the ich. So I started to treat for it with Rid-Ich. The funny thing is the fish that don't have that many white spots are the ones flashing the most. While the fish with the most especially the pleco are not flashing at all. This leads me to the question. What the **** is going on. Ich or no Ich, that is the question. Any great ideas on how to go about nailing this down.


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## F8LBITEva (Nov 9, 2007)

well did you add any fish recently? Ick doesnt come out of nowhere. Start treating for ick eimmeddiately and take the carbon outof your filters


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Ich _can_ come out of nowhere. Any stressor in a tank can bring it on. Alot of times, it is introduced by adding new fish, but not always. I've had heater malfunctions to cause ich in my tanks before.

Are the white areas salt like in appearance? They aren't patchy and fuzzy looking, are they?

Any fin deterioration?

There is an excellent article on ich, the treatment and life cycle, below my signature.

I prefer using meds (Quick Cure is my pick), but depending on what you have in the tank, you might rather use salt and heat. You want to make sure it's ich you're dealing with, though, before you raise the temp.

Kim


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2007)

One thing I'm not sure anyone else caught - How are your nitrates at 0?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Laurel is right...Nitrates shouldn't be zero unless the tank is brand new or heavily planted.

Kim


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

The tank is really new, I've had a **** of a time getting this ich out. I got rid ich and been treating it every twelve to twenty four hours. I raised the temp and added some salt. One **** of a parasite though. I ran out of a bottle on Sunday and didn't get a full dose in the tank. The next day was like it had exploded the pleco has it really bad so i've been doing regular water changes and i hope to whip it before a loose any more fish. One more thing, I am such an amateur in this field never had a tank before this one. Thought you could mix some fish with others boy was i wrong. The best advice you can give someone for starting a african cichlid tank is pick a lake and go with it. Lost one mbuna a kenji to malawi bloat already. Going to go with lake tanganyika. Love the Front i have and calvus are cool too. Thanks for the advice


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Okay, let's start all over...You've got way too many problems...

What size tank is this?

What type test kits are you using? (dipstick or liquid reagent) How old are they?

How long has the tank been set up?

What is your tank maintenance routine on the tank?

What is the full stock list?

A high stress tank is going to lead to illness after illness. Add the fact that the fish are having to go through the cycling of the tank on top of that, and you may be doing long term internal damage to the fish you already have.

We need alot more information...

Also, it would be helpful if you could post a pic of one of the fish affected by ich...It may not be ich at all...

Kim


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

Thanks Kim I appreciate your concern, to answer your questions, the tank is 55g, the test kit i'm using is liquid reagent and its new. Tests for Ph, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. My tank had been cycling for over a month. I have Eco complete sand substrate for african cichlids. Maintenance is regular water changes every other week. My filtration is two emperor 400. I have texas holey rock in the tank and some fake plants and some mopani wood. The stock for the tank is one bumble bee (super small) and one baby frontosa. They get along well. I also have the pleco. Looking on craigslist for a quarantine tank. This will never happen again if I can help it. No pics right now I'm missing my camera


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

How did you cycle the tank? Did you use fish to cycle it? Did you use _these_ fish to cycle it?

Have you lost any fish?

Are the white spots salt like in appearance and spread out over the body? Or are they more concentrated in certain areas and cottony or fuzzy in apperance?

Ich isn't usually that hard to get a grip on.

I've never used Rid Ich, but I can tell you from experience that the package recommendations that come with the meds never cover the full life cycle of the parasite, so you always have to treat longer than the medication states, but you should be seeing some improvement after a couple of treatments.

I would go with meds OR salt/heat, not both, since it can be too stressful on the fish, and both aren't necessary. You're going to need to squeeze in as many water changes as possible, since they will aid in removing the parasites from the water in various life cycle stages. Keep the tank darkened and as stress free as possible, and continue to treat the tank for 4 days after you see the last parasite fall off the body.

Are you aware that these two fish won't work in this tank long term? Bumblebees need a 75G minimum - they are one of the larger and more nasty mbuna, and frontosas need a 6 ft tank long term, and will eventually grow large enough to eat your mbuna if you add more.

Stock choices play a huge part in the stress level of the tank, although in this particular case, I think you're dealing with typical new tank problems, but it's something to give serious consideration to as you stock the tank in the future.

I'd be willing to bet that improper stocking leads to over half the frustration for new hobbyist.

Kim


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

Already I can agree with you on improper stocking is common and will most certainly result in some deaths. So the first fish I got was a OB peacock, the guy at the LFS told me he would get along with other African Cichlids......Not. He was prolly half to 3 quarters full grown when I got him. After a week or two I added three more smaller fish. A bumble bee a kenji and the Frontosa. I then got a Calvus on the smaller side. The Kenji died from Malawi Bloat cause I was feeding all the fish a flake food high in Fish meal. So thats that. Then one morning I woke up to find the Calvus all wrangled and dead on the bottom with his mouth wide oped and gills all bit and ripped. I blamed the OB peacock and said to myself if anything else happens to any of the fish he is gettin the flush. The next night or two I came home to see the Frontosa super pale almost grey and really bummed out. And the bumble bee was a little rough on the fins and pale also. I flushed the OB peacock. Did some reading on them and found that they are the nastiest of the bunch and a hybrid. I never planned on getting hybrids. So yes I lost some fish and hopefully no more. The spots both fish look ok now no spots. But the pleco however doesn't seem to be getting any better and its been like three days already. Around his eyes its worse and it is a little fuzzy almost fungus like. Thanks again kim


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You aren't the first person who has had problems with OB peacocks. Since they are part mbuna, their temperaments is hard to gauge. The calvus and front really couldn't compete with the faster, nastier Malawi cichlids.

Just keep treating the tank. And don't stop too early...

Do you have something to move the pleco to? It sounds like he may have some secondary problems going on.

Kim


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

You know the tanks lookin a lot better today. The funk is leaving its eyes and it looks like I might beat this one after all. Never again goin with mbuna. Not until they get a tank of their own. I'm a docile gentle person and the fish I like should suit my personality. Thanks again kim. I'll hit ya up for more info if I need it. Ian


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I hope you really didn't flush your OB peacock down the toilet. That is not a humane way to deal with a problem fish. You can return them to the LFS, list them as a give-away on Craigslist or, if you have to, humanely euthanize them using clove oil.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

hollyfish2000 said:


> I hope you really didn't flush your OB peacock down the toilet. That is not a humane way to deal with a problem fish. You can return them to the LFS, list them as a give-away on Craigslist or, if you have to, humanely euthanize them using clove oil.


Agreed...

Kim


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## stuckinthemiddle (Feb 26, 2008)

why take the carbon out of the filters?


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

My tank had ick and so did the OB Peacock. You try giving away a fish with Ich to your LFS and see what happens. They'll take the fish and Kill it. I'll remember the clove oil for next time. I have some right now. Have you ever gotten clove oil on your skin before? It burns and causes inflammed itching. Is that any way to kill something? Your better off with a magnifying glass and a hot sun!

agreed


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

Your suppose to remove the carbon filters because they will remove the chemicals your using to treat certain cases of disease in your tank. Go with carbonless filter media.


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## stuckinthemiddle (Feb 26, 2008)

If your treating with salt and high temp do you still need to remove the carbon filter?


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

No you don't have to remove the carbon filter. Removing the carbon filter only applies when your using medicines. Its because the carbon filter removes the chemicals of the medicines that your trying to treat your fish with. Salt and high temp don't relate to this type of treatment.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

fishmasterxl said:


> My tank had ick and so did the OB Peacock. You try giving away a fish with Ich to your LFS and see what happens. They'll take the fish and Kill it. I'll remember the clove oil for next time. I have some right now. Have you ever gotten clove oil on your skin before? It burns and causes inflammed itching. Is that any way to kill something? Your better off with a magnifying glass and a hot sun!


That's not true. I use clove oil and tank water for euthanasia, and the fish do not react to it at all. I place them in a container of tank water first, then add drops of clove oil until the fish goes to sleep. I then put the lid on the container and place it in the fridge.

Flushing is a different story. I'd hate to even think what the fish goes through until it finally dies. Between the cold water temperature change and what comes after, I don't imagine it's anywhere near as peaceful as going to sleep in a bowl.

Kim


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## fishmasterxl (Apr 20, 2008)

Oh i see so you first mix the clove oil with water and then they go to sleep. So what parts clove oil to what parts water. Does it work on curing them of some ailments? Clove oil is a natural anitbacterial so maybe? What would you have done if the rest of your fish's lives all depended on getting rid of one fish. I would have loved to given him away, but he had ich, what do you do then.
I was checking craigslist for a quarantine tank but found nothing. He had to go, next time, I'll make it quick. Thanks


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I don't measure anything. I just keep old Cool Whip containers (so once I dispose of them, I can dispose of it all in a neat package with minimal fuss) and fill it with tank water, place the fish in, and add drops of clove oil until they go to sleep. It just takes a few drops and works quickly.

I've also heard of people using clove oil as an anesthesia to remove growths from a fish, or to do other procedures, but I've never done it. It's really more of an agent for pain...Humans use clove as an old folk remedy for a toothache until they get to the dentist.

I don't allow a single fish to jeopardize the health of an entire tank. If it comes to that, I can usually take the fish to the LFS I deal with, I don't have to euthanize it, so that's nice for me.

I suppose if it were a fish I thought there were absolutely no hope for under different circumstances, I would euthanize it rather than see someone else have to deal with it in their tanks, but often our terrorist fish are of our own making by stocking a tank wrong in the first place.

Kim


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