# Caudopunctatus breeding info?



## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

I got these two a few days ago. They were the only two in the tank and they are about 2 1/2". They were very buddy buddy next to each other and hanging out together. There was a couple calvus in with them.
After a day together the one had a battle with a compressiceps over the cave that it now occupies. Now that fish stays in there most of the time. When it comes out all of its attention is on the other Caudopunctatus which stays about 8" away. It will flare at the fish and then dart at it. Then the other fish will do the same thing back. And then it appears that the reclusive fish will.wait at the opening of the cave waiting for the other fish. While the reclusive fish comes out it puts on its stress coloration as shown in the pics. Does this sound like breeding behavior? I planned on getting 3 or 4 more, but I will wait if I already have a pair... spawning is certainly a goal...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd wait...sounds like they might have eggs in the cave. The young are tiny so look closely.


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

DJRansome said:


> I'd wait...sounds like they might have eggs in the cave. The young are tiny so look closely.


Awesome! The guy at the store had them for a while and thought they were a pair, but said he never got fry... they were in a 20 gallon tank with no decor and three calvus...


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

The two are now guarding both entry points to the cave. Also the Trigs keep getting closer and closer to the cave and each time the Caudopunctatus that is in the cave rushes out and charges at them before darting back into the cave. I'll post up if I get a glimpse at fry or eggs. 
Do I leave the fry in there? I'm not wanting to take the rocks apart to get to the fry, but I will if it is unlikely they will survive with the parents. How long will the parents protect them? The Trigs have quickly become very rambunctious and are voracious eaters. They are really cool. I like them alot.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd siphon them out as soon as you can see them.


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

Today the fish that is normally at the front of the tank has taken a post inside the cave.. on the other end from the other caudo. The fish that was originally in the cave comes out about 6" occasionally... looks around.. and then goes back inside. Unfortunately setting up another tank is just not something I'm willing to do right now. I just got into this beautiful new house and I've already spent $5000 on new furniture from Ashley. I have a complete 11.4 setup with an eheim canister and Fugeray light... in the garage in storage.. I just don't want to have another tank setup somewhere... at least right now. What are the chances of some of the fry making it to adulthood in this community setting??


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

What do you think about putting one of those brine shrimp hatchery things inside of the tank right above where the parents have the cave located? And I would assume I don't need to add the brine shrimp until I can actually see the fry?


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

As you can see... the Trigs are very interested in what's going on in that tank. If it is absolutely necessary to set up another tank I could temporarily setup the 11.4 in the laundry room I guess... thoughts?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you want to save fry you should set up another tank.

The brine hatchery is a separate apparatus. They hatch in 48 hours and I never need to feed my caudo babies so don't worry about starting the hatch until you put them in the separate tank. They seem to get plenty to eat (many days) until they disappear.


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## Handyjoe (Jan 11, 2015)

I've had three until a pair bonded and killed off one. The two paired up and produced fry non stop. Each time the fry gradually deminished. I am guessing they were good snacks for other tank mates. I leave them alone in there and the very last batch yielded about a dozen of them. At that same time, a pair of Lelupe also produced lots of fry right next to the punks. Interesting thing was that the parents formed a coalition and help guarding each other's fry. Now I also have about a dozen of the Lelupe growing out at the same tank along with the punks. Don't know what happened but the pair of the adult punk got into a fight and now the female had disappeared. I think the male killed her. Interesting fish!

From the behavior that you've described, I think you may have tons of eggs in the cave. They'll turned into very tiny fry, smaller than the tip of a pencil so keep a look out.
Good luck!
Joe.


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

Handyjoe said:


> I've had three until a pair bonded and killed off one. The two paired up and produced fry non stop. Each time the fry gradually deminished. I am guessing they were good snacks for other tank mates. I leave them alone in there and the very last batch yielded about a dozen of them. At that same time, a pair of Lelupe also produced lots of fry right next to the punks. Interesting thing was that the parents formed a coalition and help guarding each other's fry. Now I also have about a dozen of the Lelupe growing out at the same tank along with the punks. Don't know what happened but the pair of the adult punk got into a fight and now the female had disappeared. I think the male killed her. Interesting fish!
> 
> From the behavior that you've described, I think you may have tons of eggs in the cave. They'll turned into very tiny fry, smaller than the tip of a pencil so keep a look out.
> Good luck!
> Joe.


That's very interesting about the leleupi... I have heard nothing other than them being terrors and completely unsuitable for a community tank. Id love to add some to this tank. What size was your tank?
That's fantastic. I hope you are right. How many do you think I could keep successfully in my 125 gallon community tank? I'm assuming I would have better success reintroducing fry than new fish from the store. I will likely try to keep a good stock of fish in this tank to dispurse aggression. Given that I don't see any option other than a separate tank for fry. I'll see how this goes and if they are successful getting some fry I will setup the other tank which I already have seeded substrate and filter. I'll just do some rock work in there and maybe some java fern and moss.


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## Handyjoe (Jan 11, 2015)

I have them in a 48" tall display, 110 gal tank. They are in there with four petricola, a black calvus, two Brichadi crossed with Leleupi (happened when a male Brichadi forced his way inside a cave full of Leleupi eggs and do his thing), a black calvus, may be two dozens punk and Leleupi juveniles combined.
For your 125, you could do a lot. Try introduce a few, like five, and monitor to see what happens. It works in my case since they were introduced at the same time, but it may not work in other cases. Good luck to you.
Joe.


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

Awesome thank you. I'm thinking about adding some singles as well... maybe a Brichardi, a Tretocephalus, and depending on what I hear maybe a single leleupi


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The leleupi are fine in a community except for shellies and caudos. Handyjoe, maybe you are the exception. As a beginner 10 years ago I HAD to have the leleupi for color, even though I was cautioned about them killing the shellies. And they did. Same with caudopunctatus. No problem with other fish.

The leleupi drag out the adult shellies/caudos in an attempt to get to the fry...this results in the death of the adults...eventually.


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

DJRansome said:


> The leleupi are fine in a community except for shellies and caudos. Handyjoe, maybe you are the exception. As a beginner 10 years ago I HAD to have the leleupi for color, even though I was cautioned about them killing the shellies. And they did. Same with caudopunctatus. No problem with other fish.
> 
> The leleupi drag out the adult shellies/caudos in an attempt to get to the fry...this results in the death of the adults...eventually.


Yah I can't risk that... it's too bad. They are so beautiful, but I love the Multi's in the 75 gallon and I really love the Caudopunctatus... 
I'm noticing that I really don't ever see the Compressiseps... the Trigs don't seem like they are bullies... but even if they are the Compressiseps are built to handle it... in addition they are a good size... about as big as the Trigs. I thought the Comps would be all over a potential fry situation 
So a single Brichardi, possibly a Tret, any other singles I could do?


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

Figured I'd keep this going as a very detailed account of the punks behavior if they are in fact breeding. A few hours ago the fish that I presume to be the male that recently joined the other punk in the cave has emerged and is now swimming above the cave area, but still very near it. He was in the cave exclusively for a little over a day.


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

So I got these guys on the 7th or 8th and the one took to the cave area immediately. The other comes and goes, but has stayed within maybe 6" of the cave at all times. The other is barely visible near the back of the tank. There are a bunch of interconnected areas in those rocks and I've looked into all of them several times a day. I still don't see any fry and the other punk seems to sit in one specific area in the cave. I don't think I've seen her / him even eat and the other one is not exactly a go getter when food is introduced either. The Trigs on the other hand are ravenous. I don't see the Trigs ever get close to the area that the reclusive Punk stays so I don't see any bullying... and the other punk still darts at them if they get close so I don't think he is getting bullied... is it possible that the fry are not visible / free swimming yet? Is it normal for a female to disregard food during this time? I'm feeding frozen blood worms, Omega flakes and NLS pellets a couple times a day and I make sure some of the blood worms make it down by where the reclusive punk is staying... when I squeeze back there the fish just looks at me... it isn't startled and doesn't move... it's like it's just sitting back there in the one spot... 
Taking the stonework apart isn't an option... the larger stones weigh 70 - 80 lbs and I can't safely move them... any experiences? I'd love to hear that this could be normal breeding behavior. Even the Comps are starting to come out more. 
The Trigs are boisterous, but I don't see them bothering anyone and they dart the other way when the other punk charges them. The Punks are every bit as large as the Trigs at this point... in fact the new Brichardi is by far the smallest fish in the tank. By my estimates the Punks have to be full grown...


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

There are different time frames on different articles, but I've read 72 hours for eggs to hatch and free swimming 4 - 6 days later... so I'm thinking I may need to give it a few more days. My concern is that the Punks are being bullied and if so I would like to resolve the issue immediately


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If the caudos are displaying bars and charging other fish I'd say they have eggs or fry. They are nearly impossible to see any do stay in the cave, venturing out another millimeter each day.

Since you can't remove a cave of shell with them inside...I have no idea how you would resolve. Remove the trigs? That would be a pain if you found no fry.

The caudos spawn regularly once they start...you could just observe this time.


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

DJRansome said:


> If the caudos are displaying bars and charging other fish I'd say they have eggs or fry. They are nearly impossible to see any do stay in the cave, venturing out another millimeter each day.
> 
> Since you can't remove a cave of shell with them inside...I have no idea how you would resolve. Remove the trigs? That would be a pain if you found no fry.
> 
> The caudos spawn regularly once they start...you could just observe this time.


Very cool. Thank you. If I do in fact have a pair that's fantastic. I know that it may take them a few tries to get it right. In case I do see fry I think my only option is to syphon them out. I have no doubt the Trigs would go after them and they have a pack mentality now. Perhaps it's just because they are young, but all four travel in a group. I have no doubt they would overwhelm the two punks rather easily. This is really exciting. If I could raise some fry and reintroduce them to the tank I think I would be happy... after adding a few more Gold Head Compressiseps. The tank is looking good I think


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## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

Haven't seen any fry as of yet and there has been no changes in behavior by either fish. Other than breeding I can't imagine what could be going on with them. They've claimed that whole stack of rocks and even the one that stays outside of the cave doesn't venture more than 6 inches from the rock cave. I'm making sure some blood worms and flakes make it back there


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