# LFS Assorted Cichlids??? 3 questions??? HELP



## feedinfrenzy3 (Jan 20, 2009)

Im looking to stock my 45 gallon tank with a good mix of red, yellow, and blue mbuna cichlids. I have been looking at Pseudotrpheus desmani, saulosi , red zebra. I know the male saulosi is blue and that would cause problems w a desmani(also read you can only have one desmani or a huge group?).....so my first question is what species should get to get a good mixture of yellow, blue, and red cichlids?

Second Id also like to have probably 2 clown loaches, and a pleco, how many fish should i stock my tank with?

And lastly I went to my LFS and saw a tank with a mixture of yellow and blue cichlids that were labeled ASSORTED CICHLIDS, Im guessing some of these may be hybrid and all are juvenile, is there any way you tell what they are and if thats not possible why would they sell assorted cichlids that will mature and eventually kill or harm eachother? doesnt make sense to me? *** also seen some websites sell assorted mixtures?

The library touches on some of these issues in questions but the forum always seems to get more specific answers.


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## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

feedinfrenzy3 said:


> Im looking to stock my 45 gallon tank with a good mix of red, yellow, and blue mbuna cichlids. I have been looking at Pseudotrpheus desmani, saulosi , red zebra. I know the male saulosi is blue and that would cause problems w a desmani(also read you can only have one desmani or a huge group?).....so my first question is what species should get to get a good mixture of yellow, blue, and red cichlids?


Your tank is a little small, but maybe the saulosi and _a few _yellow labs would be the answer.
If I have it correctly, the female saulosi are more yellow/orange.
So, the labs would be yellow, male saulosi blue with yellow/orange saulosi females.



feedinfrenzy3 said:


> Second Id also like to have probably 2 clown loaches, and a pleco, how many fish should i stock my tank with?


In my opinion, don't put the clown loach in there with the mbuna. 
Clown loach are a wonderful fish that need a much larger tank, to be kept in groups of 5 or more plus the mbuna will stress them too much.
I don't know how well the pleco will fair either...



feedinfrenzy3 said:


> And lastly I went to my LFS and saw a tank with a mixture of yellow and blue cichlids that were labeled ASSORTED CICHLIDS, Im guessing some of these may be hybrid and all are juvenile, is there any way you tell what they are and if thats not possible why would they sell assorted cichlids that will mature and eventually kill or harm eachother? doesnt make sense to me? I've also seen some websites sell assorted mixtures?


It takes years of owning and studying cichilds to be able to look at them and know. 
That is very difficult for most of us, so buying from a trusted breeder is the best option to be sure of what you are getting.
They sell the assorted mixtures because unknowing people think they are pretty and buy them, Business 101.



feedinfrenzy3 said:


> The library touches on some of these issues in questions but the forum always seems to get more specific answers.


And you'll often get a variety of answers, because of the different experiences, too.
hth,


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

There are no truly red mbuna. The best you are going to get is orange. What people call 'red zebra' are really orange fish, not red. Red zebras are beautiful fish, but very aggressive. To keep them successfully, you need a much larger tank than 45G. Demasoni are in a similar league - beautiful fish, but I would never keep them in a 45G. The perfect mbuna for a tank your size are saulosi, since they stay a little smaller and are less aggressive than most other mbuna. If you get a good strain, the males will be deep blue - very similar to demasoni, and the females bright yellow to orange in color - very similar to red zebras. If I was in your shoes, I would make the tank a species tank with P. saulosi. I'd probably start with 8. You will see their very interesting mouth breeding behavior, and assuming you have enough hiding places for the little ones, you will see quite a few babies grow up. It will be a beautiful tank. Recently somebody was showing pictures of a 120G tank with nothing but saulosi and one type of plant (Valisneria sp.) in there. It was a sight to behold!

Mixing in other mbuna can be done, but in the long run will cause nothing but trouble and strive in a tank your size. Make sure you get a good strain of saulosi, preferably from a breeder. A local fish club might be able to hook you up. 'Mixed mbuna' are very low quality fish, and I would never recommend buying them. Chances are they will have diseases when you get them and not live long, or they will never develop good color.

If you go for plecos, make sure to get bristle nose plecos, not the common plecos most LFS sell. Common plecos get huge - much to large for your tank, don't eat algae as adults, and create incredible mounts of waste that will be taxing for any filtration system. BN plecos can be kept very successfully with mbuna, and they could even breed in the same tank, but only keep them if you are truly interested in them. You don't need them as cleaners, because the saulosi will easily take care of algae and food leftovers by themselves. If you go for them, I would buy a pair of 6 juveniles, so you have a good chance of getting a pair in the end. Their breeding behavior is fascinating to watch with the male taking care of the eggs and the young.

I am personally not a great fan of mixing fish from different areas of the world. With saulosi and plecos you have Africa and South America covered, and clown loaches would bring Asia into the mix as well. However, in my experience clown loaches are reasonably active fish that could peacefully coexist with mbuna. They also occupy the lowest part of a tank while mbuna might gravitate more toward the middle. I think you could ad two clown loaches to your tank, if you want lots of different fish, and I think that would be a better idea than adding other mbuna to the saulosi. Personally I would probably stay with just the mbuna and possibly the BN plecos. Adding the loaches would also mean your tank is very highly stocked, meaning you really need to be on your toes with maintenance!

Greetings

Frank


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## feedinfrenzy3 (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks for all the detailed help. I like the Ps. Saulosi but not necessarily a ton of fry. *** also been looking at Yellow labs and Johanii, they seem to be a good size fit to the tank. Also with saulosi im worried about the males no fully coloring because of competition. tell me what you think


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Mbuna are not like convicts, for example, where you can get hundreds of fry in no time and then don't know what to do with them. For starters being mouth brooders they have far smaller broods to begin with. Maybe a female might have a dozen fry in one go. Then they will also eat their own fry, and only the cleverest few will make it in your tank. So you will only once in a while see one grow up - unless you strip the females or let them spit in a separate tank. If your tank ever gets overpopulated, most any LFS will gladly take good quality saulosi off your hands for store credit, food, or the like. In short, I would look forward to them breeding rather than dreading it.

A standard beginners mistake is to aim for as many different species fish as can be crammed into a tank. Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't, but in my experience a tank like that isn't very interesting to watch in the long run. Visitors might go ah - you have red, blue AND yellow fish, and you might get a kick out of that, but for you personally it will probably be a lot more interesting to observe a large part of the natural behaviors of a group of saulosi - how they constantly re-establish the hacking order, how they breed, and how the fry grow up - then to sit in front of a tank with red, blue and yellow fish that just swim round and round. That's why I don't get people who have 'all male tanks' but to each his own 

Frank


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## feedinfrenzy3 (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks for the posts. I found this website a week ago and used to have marine and now I want cichlids, and after seeing this site im obessed. I definately have decided against a mixed tank. Now i just hve one more question i need input on......

A species tank with all saulosi (4m 12f)
or
Yellow lab and johanni tank

On a side note.... 46 gal tank have an ac300, now to chose between emperor 400, or marine hot mag for extra filtration? pick between the 2 and let me know.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Yellow labs would be a good choice. Don't know much about johanni - I am more a Tanganyika than a Malawi guy. Saulosi species tank would be my first choice - I almost set one up in a 50G for my dad before Christmas, but in the end went with a Tanganyika community setup again 

Regarding filters, in a tank like that I would want bioflitration that only a canister filter can provide. Eheim 2217 would be my first choice. I'd buy it used to save money, and I'd fill it with filter floss - or rather quilt batting from Walmart - which I have had in all my canisters over the last 30 years. I don't know anything about the filters you are looking at.

Four males seem like a lot for a tank that size. I'd do two or three and a good number of females - say eight. They will grow and they will breed!

Frank


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## JimInAugusta (Mar 16, 2007)

I remember the first time I saw electric yellow labs. WOW! When people see them in my tank they always ask confidently, "Those are salt water fish, right?" And the best part is they seem to just get along with everybody. I never have bred them. The rest of my mbuna are like bunnies.


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## feedinfrenzy3 (Jan 20, 2009)

Like Johanii and Yellow lab mix for their temperment. But leaning towards a species tank of saulosi. I know they will breed but ill probably let nature take its course and the survivors ill just sell to my LFS, i figured 4m 12f to cut down on aggression.

The only thing id be worried about with johanii lab mix would be I would get about 3 to 4m johanii only males, then 10 or so labs, and the labs could end up being males or females which would cause a problem of to many males in the tank.


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## Maddog (Nov 7, 2008)

i like throwing it all together and see what happens!
go for it


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## rinmouse (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm for the saulosis. If I was setting up another smaller african tank, I think that is what I would go with. I *like* yellow labs, but you don't see very many good ones, and they're very common. So saulosis are a little bit different, and the ones that I've seen have been *very* pretty.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think the Johanni are aggressive to be in a 45G tank, what are the dimensions?


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## feedinfrenzy3 (Jan 20, 2009)

3 foot long 2 high and 1 deep


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would stick with dwarf mbuna of a less aggressive type than Johanni. You could do Labs and Demasoni or Labs and Maingano if you like the horizontal stripes better than bars.


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## feedinfrenzy3 (Jan 20, 2009)

from what *** read tho Demasoni are terrors and always kill eachother off. Sounds like i should just go with a species saulosi tank


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

I don't know where you are in IL but if you are close to Chicago, I highly recommend checking out GCCA. They have a swap on Feb. 8 and you will be able to get high quality fish at good prices.
See their site:
http://www.gcca.net/index.htm

I don't know much about this club, but there is a fish auction Sunday sponsored by the Greenwater Aquarist Society of Chicago. 
http://www.gwasoc.org/smf/index.php


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## cjbtech (Dec 5, 2008)

I have 17 Demasoni & 10 yellow Labs in a 90 gal &love it. They ignore each other no problem. As far as the Dems I would'nt want any less than the 17 I have because they are hard on each other, but lose each other in the crowd. At the moment I don't even see a tattered fin in the bunch. I woild highly reccomend them, but your tank is a tad small I would think.


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