# Air Stone Co2?



## DrewWoodside (Mar 20, 2008)

I've read on Plant forums for people with heavily planted tanks they don't use an air stone or they don't use an airstone at night b/c having the airstone running negates injecting the C02. I have an appisto cac. 2 bolivian rams, 2 otos, and a few tetras. Is it possible to run this tank without an airstone? Or should I be running it at night? Plse share some advise on the matter. Thanks a lot everyone.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Surface aggitation is what defuses the CO2. So most people that have planted tanks with injected CO2 don't use airstones, or only at night. The reason at night is without light, plants switch to taking in CO2 to taking in O2 just like the fish. Doing it at night makes sure there isn't a drastic O2 shortage with the lights off.

Tanks should never need an airstone, if they do it usually means they are either overstocked or too hot or unfiltered ... or any combination.


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## DrewWoodside (Mar 20, 2008)

I don't believe my tank is overstocked. So I can get away without running an airstone at all? Does anyone else not use one? The tank is planted so I'm sure they will be providing some oxygen as well..


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Let me amend that, many planted CO2 injected tanks do need them run at night, especially if stuff full of plants. :thumb:


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

i have a planted tank and no airstone. i just make sure the water level isnt too high in my tank so the hob filter creates surface aggitation.

i used to have an airstone that would flip on before the tan klight would go out, but it would scare the fish so i got rid of it. a good filter should take care of this for you.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*DrewWoodside*
are you injecting CO2? or not? You never actually say...

if you are injecting CO2, then you should be measuring pH and KH and know what your CO2 level is in the morning, at noon and at night... it's the most common exercise planted tank enthusiasts injecting CO2 do as they start the CO2 up. 
Did you not do this?

If the CO2 in the morning is at an unsafe level, then you need an airstone at night.

If you are not injecting CO2, then you absolutely need some sort of water movement and this can be from a filter or an airstone... your choice.


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## DrewWoodside (Mar 20, 2008)

i have a whisper filter.. Does that count as water movement? I will be injecting c02. Do I need the air stone going?


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

When adding high CO2 levels up to 20mg/liter or more there is a risk on oxygen lack during the night. As explained by a previous poster plants use oxygen during the night just like the fish. If you add CO2 at night the level will go up becouse the plants don't extract CO2 during the night. This can couse dangerous high CO2 levels. The high CO2 level courses to lower the oxygen level even more. So depending on CO2 level you will or will not need an air stone during the night. There are also valves availeble that can shut off the CO2 transport. The valve can be controlled by an electrical pulse from a timer or from a CO2 controller. The CO2 controllers measure the PH all day long. When the PH is decreasing (higher CO2 level) the controller shuts the valve. The valve and the controller are expensive equipment so people use an air stone. The air stone will increase the surface movement in your tank. CO2 will vaporize while O2 will be absorbed. The Co2 level will decrease becouse of the increased surface movement.

I used CO2 equipment in the past as well. It does have some benefits but also some drawbacks. With high CO2 levels you will need high light levels and high nutrition levels. So you need to buy expensive CO2 equipment, lots of fertilizers and you pay more on the electric bill. You will be able to grow even to more difficult plants. A drawback can also be the very fast growing plants. You will need to spend more time on pruning and more important,.....although people claim CO2 makes their plants stronger,...most of them become weaker! Leaves grow fast and are easy to break. Plants that have grown slower often have darker leaves are smaler but have very strong leaves. There is also quit a large group of people that are convinced fish don't handle the high CO2 levels that well. This might be true. Fish are used to the more natural level of +/- 8 mg/liter.

I would give it a good thought before you buy CO2 equipment. Of course those plant geeks tel you that you can't do without. Your lfs and the manufacturer of the products will be very pleased with a new customer dough. I'm convinced it is all abouth balance. A balance between light level. light spectrum, type of plant and nutrition. This balance can also be found in planted tanks without CO2. If you go along with the CO2 you first need to start with very low additions of CO2 and build is slowely up to the level you want. You need to measure the water every day! The parameters you need to measure are KH/GH, PH and CO2. Depending on the real level of CO2 (measuring the highest level in the morning just before lights go on) you will need to use an air stone or valve during the night. If the CO2 level is 20mg/liter or lower in the early morning you won't need the air stone. I recommend not to go over 20 mg/liter and even better, saver and much cheaper,.....no CO2 at all.

I hope this helps. Be aware that high levels of CO2 can couse your fish to die withing several hours.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Well said Dutch Dude. 



DrewWoodside said:


> i have a whisper filter.. Does that count as water movement? I will be injecting c02. Do I need the air stone going?


Please read through Dutch Dude's reply very carefully. 
Your very questions makes me very nervous about answering and I think my reply would have to be the length of Dutch Dude's and probably not as well put...


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hahaha,...he come on Number6,...I need some help on this one!

I forgot to answer that one,......every filter will couse surface movement. The level depends on the flow (gallon per hour = GPH), the size of the tank and type and place of the output. A spraybar placed abouve the surface aria will have a large movement but a hose 4 inch underneath the surface faced to the background will create les surface movement. The benefit of using an airstone is that it is easy to adjust the output and is easy to automatically turn on and off with a standard timer that people use to switch lamps on and off. To adjust the flow of the filter during light and dark period is not whise. In normal situations you always want your filter to work for 100%. Use the filter to lower the CO2 level during night won't be a good method. An air stone works better for that purpose.


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## DrewWoodside (Mar 20, 2008)

Thanks a lot. I appreciate all the information. Hopefully I'll be able to consider most of it and put it into play. I am aware that a lot of the plant fanatics can be obsessive.. In their defense I've seen them produce some beautiful tanks! I am going to try using c02 and i will be dilligent in achieving the right balance. I want vibrant plants and dwarves so hopefully I can pull it off!


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> I am aware that a lot of the plant fanatics can be obsessive.. In their defense


 Yeh I don't even try to discus things with them any more. It always ends with yelling at me and telling me how wrong I ame, haha! So keep in mind that a lot of growth ask for lots of light, lots of nutrition and fertilizers. With such a set up things can go very wrong in very little time. Back in the 80's aquarists were also able to grow the most beautiful planted tanks (like the Holland tanks) without using CO2 and all the fancy expensive equipment we use today. It is all abouth balance. There are definitely more than one recipe that leads to a nice tasteful apple pie! :wink:


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