# Ich



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I've been having a horrible time with an ich outbreak on my 90 gallon tank since early December.

I purchased 4 Emperor tetras and only quarantined them for a week. Boy, did I live to regret it.

I have some sensitive fish, so I tried some of the milder options. I did 86 degree temperature for a week. No dice. Then I tried Kordon Ich Attack, and my Rummynose Tetras just got covered in ich. I lost about 6 dwarf loaches, 7 Rummynoses, a 12 year old L numbered pleco and a BNP.

I went to several retailers for advice, figuring that they deal with ich outbreaks on a regular basis. For the most part, they were worse than useless. One guy told me to use a certain medication and to add a capful every day and ignore the instructions. Another kid told me to use Pimafix and Melafix.

I then switched to Kordon Ich Attack Plus for a week, but the dwarf loaches were getting worse. I'm currently using Esha Exit which I ordered on Ebay and was shipped from the UK. I'm hoping that this is the magic bullet.

The only somewhat sane advice that I received was from a retailer who told me to go medieval, use whatever medication full dose with salt, write off your sensitive fish and take your losses.

I remember in the 70's that you could cure ich in 3 days with no problem. The medicine was probably carcinogenic, but it got the job done.

Lesson learned? Quarantine, quarantine, quarantine.

Once I beat this, do you think that adding a UV sterilizer would provide added protection?


----------



## smitty (May 7, 2004)

I always recommend getting the temp up to 88 to 90 degrees. Plus add a little salt. Raising the temp does not make it go away over night.


----------



## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

There are some really nasty ich strains going arround. They can be verry hard to get rid off.

Esha exit. Works.

Its what I use on mine. Is it that good? Nah. There is better stuff. But its really cheap  like 5 euros for a bottle. And does the trick. Its made in Holland not to far from me and they never changed anything to it since the middle ages.

I dont dose according to the directions. I dose as much so that the watter stays a little green. Sometimes I need to overdose 3x before the substrate, gunk, rocks etc stop absorbing the dye.

But! You said you have verry sensitive fish. And your dealing with a verry resistant strain. Look into a chloramin-t treatment.

If used "correctly" and I really mean correctly. Its safe for even the most sensitive fish.

It does however mean you have to be verry precise in the dosage and your water parameters.

Absolutely no amonia.
Ph above 7.5 (re-check this yourself)
The dosage has to be spot on.

It burns away all little critters and bacteria. Keep an eye on your filters.

An overdose by a little means you burn away your fish its gills.


----------



## smitty (May 7, 2004)

Wortel87 That sounds like something to be only used by very seasoned aquarist.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I consider myself to be a seasoned hobbyist after keeping fish continuously since the early 70's. However, chloramin-t sounds a little too risky for me to play around with. It sound like there is too much opportunity for things going wrong. Also, my ph is not above 7.5.


----------



## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Well risky.... I dont know... aslong as you obey the rules there shouldnt be a problem.

If your someone who thinks a cheap kitchen weigh scale is enough.. the treatment is not for you.

If you weigh it off nicely according to how many gallons your tank holds at that moment. A few gallons wrong on a large tank doesnt mean dissaster btw  but lets say you need 1,5 grams and u add 2 grams it can go wrong.

If you check everything before each dose there is no need to worry.

The ph thing you should check yourself. If i,m not mistaken the bottom numer is 7 or 7.2ph. To be safe I always say 7.5 

With koi fish its still often used. And back in the day most problems were fixed with chloramin-t. But because people didnt follow the rules it was quickly forgotten when other meds showed up.

How many people dont overdose their metro? For a little bit more assurance? Or like me with my esha exit.

But yeah. You need to know a little about what your doing


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I had enough trouble with the Esha drops to gallons to milliliters conversion.


----------



## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Just make sure with exit your water stays green.

The green tint dissipates during the day. And you need to dose enough so that the water before the next dose is still a little bit green. It has to be vissible. Not like you need to watch closely to spot the color. You can add drops during the day if you think the water becomes to clear.

The first day your water can go to clear in like 12 hours. Thats because everything in the tank absorbs the dye. Leaving nothing left in the water to get the ich.

You can also prolong the treatment safely if you need to.

Try it. It works that way. Allot of the ich meds are made out of malachite green. Maybe this was your problwm the first time


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I have a lot of organic material in the tank (live plants and driftwood) which is part of the problem.


----------



## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

I understand. But that doesnt matter. Dose as much as is needed so that the water stays green in between days. Like I said just enough so you can see it. Not as green as when you have just dosed it  thats would be way to much.

The med should be in there with no interuptions. If the watter doesnt contain enough there is a window for the ich to get on the fish and be immune to the meds. Resulting in another batch of hatchlings.

The plants will survive. Not that they particularly like the malachite green but they will recover.

The new fish also dont have to be the source. Ich is always in the tank. And it could verry well be that your new additions were the perfect target to manifest themselves. But they also could have brought it in.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I think that the general consensus is that ich is not always in the tank. I don't know what they have in the Netherlands, but most pet shop aquariums in the US run off a central filtration system. This means if there is ich in 1 tank, then there is ich in every tank. I've gone many years without having an outbreak, and the new fish were the first ones to show spots.

What effect do you think that the Exit will have on my biofilter?


----------



## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

If you got an filter that has been running for a while there isnt a problem.

Fish can build a resistants to ich. They really do. If you do a water change with to cold water there is a big chance you will get an outbreak. Its always in your tank. The white spots you see is a reaction from the fish not the ich itself. There is always a small population present. If there are to many the fish is producing more slime skin to fight the parasites. Thats when you see the white spots.

If you see the first white spots the infection is already going on for days.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

The battle goes on. Most of the fish seem to be cleared of the ich. One dwarf loach had an especially bad case of ich and I can't tell if he is fully cured. Some of the cysts seem to be covered by body slime.

I am going to continue the Esha Exit treatment for a few more days and then many switch to heat and salt this weekend.

Any suggestions?


----------



## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Just continue the exit for 2 more days.

After stop treatment. And see if it stays gone. If there is 1 or 2 spots still present on 1 or 2 fish. It will clear on its own.


----------



## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

wortel87 said:


> Its always in your tank.


I believe that theory has since been debunked. It needs to be introduced, either by fish or equipment. Infected fish often don't display symptoms which lead to the theory that it was ever present.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

D'oh! I though I had finally licked it, and then I saw several fish with spots on them last night. I'm going back on the Exit for the rest of the week. My plan is to try to keep the dosage high enough so that the water stays blue. I'm going to treat in the morning before I go to work and at night after dinner.


----------



## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Exit is green.....

This is exactly why I told you to dose my way  but I guess you thought I was making things up  but to be clear. This only goes for esha exit. US meds I,ve got no experience with.

Just do what I told you in previous posts and it will be ok. If you still have enough of it.... But dont go overboard with dosing! A little green just before the second dose is enough.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

Green it is.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

wortel87

I've been overdosing on the Esha Exit and I'm still seeing ich on some of my fish. I have a 90 gallon tank and it am dosing 4 ml twice a day. The water will not stay green for very long because the plants and driftwood must be absorbing the medication.

What should I do? I've been battling ich since early December.


----------



## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

4ml twice a day is allot! How much do you have? since the small packages contain 20ml for 1000 liters of water.

It should stay green with that dose hehe 

You could try and take the driftwood out. Live plants wont absorb. How dirty is your filter? You could also try and keep the lights off. Since malachite green will break down. Might give you a little bit extra.

If you take the driftwood out you should do a big water change and start over.

How is the ich doing? You said you still have some spots. Are they getting less? Some spots can take a while before they go.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I purchased a big bottle since I was shipping to the US from the UK. My canister was recently cleaned.

I only see 1 spot on each of 2 fish. However, I still have a dwarf loach that was severely infested which still has ich or a secondary infection from the ich.

I'll try cutting down on the lighting.


----------



## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

2 spots on 2 fish isnt that worrying.

Do you have a picture of that loach?

Whats your ph?


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I'm concerned because I thought that the tank was free of ich and then I noticed 2 spots.

I'll try to take a picture of the loach.

My ph is around 7.2.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

Here is a picture of my dwarf loach. Unfortunately, the ich/sores look similar to my sand. I'm still not certain that my tank is ich free.


----------



## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

The water is green looks like 

But yeah that looks like ich. But it really should be gone already. Unless youve got a resistant strain.

Like I said. There is a strain resistant to allot of meds and also to a higher temp.

I think your done with exit. Get it out of the water. No need to continu if it isnt doing the trick.

Would like to point you again to the chloramin-t treatment.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I can't tell if it is ich under the skin or a secondary infection caused by the ich sores.

I stopped the Exit last week and have been using Gordon Ick Attack as a follow up.

I guess I'll go without medication after my next water change on Saturday and see what happens.


----------



## euphr (Aug 9, 2015)

I took some advice from Smitty that worked well for us as we had a break out of ICH and I lost four fish in a community tank.

I gradually raised my temp to 88 degrees and added aquarium salt 1tbsp per 5 gallons. I kept it there for 14 days and did 30 to 40 percent water changes daily. According the library document ICH will live in the fish for 4 days (the white bumps) then will release back into the water as protozoa and have a very short lifecycle where they have to find a new host to repeat the process. The salt and heat kill the protozoa in the water not the ICH that is in the fish. So its important to treat all of the tank and to get the temperature up as high as you can get. I did the water changes as this would help in reducing the amount of protozoa in the water. I opted not to do the chemicals as we have clown loaches and yes we lost one to ICH but the tank is now completely free and i am starting to reduce the temperature back to 78 degrees.

I am curious to see what you have had your tank temperature at. I looked through the thread and didn't see if you raised the temp or not.

BTW the picture of the fish with the ICH is a gorgeous fish. I pray you get this fixed.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I went to 86 and kept it there for close to 2 weeks. During that time, the ich really multiplied and I lost some of my favorite fish, including a white spotted L numbered pleco which I had for 10 years, 4 or 5 dwarf loaches, a couple of cories, 6 rummynose tetras and 3 black phantom tetras. I killed one debauwi cat with medication and another when it became hopelessly tangled in a net when I tried to move it to another tank. I also moved 6 glass catfish to another tank because I knew that the medication would kill them. I'm hoping that they still aren't carrying ich.

The whole experience has been dispiriting.


----------



## euphr (Aug 9, 2015)

Wow!!!!

I am so sorry. I just got back into fish after about a 14 year break so I haven't had one for that long but I can imagine how attached you were as I am attached the ones i have had for 9 months.

I pray you figure it out and can kick the ICH.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

Well, the situation resolved itself in an unfortunate way. The dwarf loach died last night from what I think was a secondary infection from all of the ich. I stopped medicating the tank and hope that I don't see a relapse.

I had about 20 dwarf loaches and lost about 6. The one that died yesterday was larger than the rest and was probably one of the original two which I purchased about 10 years ago.

Thanks everyone for their help and best wishes.

Mike


----------

