# Need an ID confirmation please...



## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

I'm supposed to know what this is, but since I already had weird saulosi's (hybrids) in the past from this breeder, I'd like your opinion on this species.

The reason I'm asking is that they are about 1 year old now and closing in on the 3" mark, but still none of them is showing their true colors. One of my new saulosi's is smaller and has already turned all black and blue and my Met. estherae male is also showing nice colors... but this one species just won't color up for some reason.

Here's a picture I took yesterday :










And another one from when he was smaller (about 6 months ago) :


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

Did you vent this fish to make sure it's not female?


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## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

No, but I have 10 or 11 of them... can't believe I don't have a couple males in there! 2 or 3 of them are showing barrings like this one, but the others are showing nothing at all.


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## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

Anyone? Should I just tell you what it's supposed to be?


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## Marconi (Oct 7, 2013)

Look like hybrids to me. Considering that they are 3 inches and there is no sign of a colour change, good chance thats what they are. I can't even tell you what kind of species they are...what did you buy them as?


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## jlose600 (Aug 6, 2012)

I have to agree with Marconi. It appears to be a female hybrid to me.


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## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

Supposed to be Cynotilapia hara... Or at least some sort of afra. If they are hybrids, I'm gonna be pissed.

The breeder seems like a good guy, has tons of really good looking tanks and fishes...


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

Doesn't look like a hara. Afra....maybe, but something doesn't look right.


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## amcvettec (May 11, 2012)

Agree, definitely not hara. My male afras have always colored up by 2" even with other more dominant fish in the tank. Most female afras are not that drab brown either. I feel most are silvery or pale blue.


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## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

amcvettec said:


> Agree, definitely not hara. My male afras have always colored up by 2" even with other more dominant fish in the tank. Most female afras are not that drab brown either. I feel most are silvery or pale blue.


The color on the 2nd pic doesn't really represent what it's like in real. Since I insatalled those AquaGlo lights, the colors are a bit messed up, especially for darker fish. The colors on the first one are more representative. They are mostly black with a slight shade of purple/blue. Last time I stressed them with a water change or net in the tank, one of them turned lighter, but still nothing close to what a Hara should be like.


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## StructureGuy (Jul 27, 2002)

TheJ0kerrr said:


> Supposed to be Cynotilapia hara... Or at least some sort of afra. If they are hybrids, I'm gonna be pissed.


Looks a little like my Metriaclima sp. "Mbweca" females:
http://www.african-cichlid.com/Mbweca.htm
Go to the last pic on that page

Kevin


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## Marconi (Oct 7, 2013)

StructureGuy said:


> TheJ0kerrr said:
> 
> 
> > Supposed to be Cynotilapia hara... Or at least some sort of afra. If they are hybrids, I'm gonna be pissed.
> ...


Wow! great eye...they look exactly the same.


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## Marconi (Oct 7, 2013)

Actually the ones above have much more barring...look very close though.


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## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

StructureGuy said:


> Looks a little like my Metriaclima sp. "Mbweca" females:
> http://www.african-cichlid.com/Mbweca.htm
> Go to the last pic on that page
> 
> Kevin


That last pic sure looks like them at first sight, but mine have absolutely no yellow at all on their fins... instead, they have some blue/purple edges that are hard to see on the pictures. Guess I'll question the breeder again.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

What did he tell you when you bought them? Probably some sort of Cynotilapia? If they don't know, that is a very bad sign. Certainly not Hara. Also be aware that the name White Top has been used for other Afra types, so they may be confused.

Some sort of Afra or Afra hybrid. Very odd that none would color up. Have any pics of the other fish?

Without color, they kinda look like a lot of types.


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## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

Alright, since I couldn't get anything decent with my current lighting, I took my DIY LED lighting for my 20g long and put it on top of the 55g, then I took a video. Now I believe this is will help a lot as their colors are much more accurate now.

When I purchased them, I asked for White top hara's and he was calling them white top afra's... so figured it was close enough. I have seen one of his white top hara adult male in his tanks, so I know he has/had some...

Here is the video, you'll also see saulosi's, Metriaclima estherae's (very briefly, they were all hiding) and a Labeotropheus fuellborni :


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

The name "White Top Afra" used to be a common name for a different Mbuna, which were like the Pulpican/"Kingsizei". They may have been hybrids, they were usually light blue with bars on the side but no bars in the dorsal. This seller is just going by old trade names, he probably doesn't know what the fish are. It is odd, but some sellers/breeders still use old trade names from the 80, they are not interested in knowing what they are selling!

That is weird that you never even get one male to fire up color some time or another.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

I Agree With Noki - It's Strange That None Have Colored Up. I'm Guessing, But It Could Be Because They Are Intimidated By That Male Saulosi, Or Somehow You Ended Up With All Females! It Seems Unlikely, But It's Still Possible. I Also Don't Know What They Are Other Than Some Cynotilapia Or Another.


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## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

Thanks guys, I'll give them a bit more time and try to vent a few of them to see if I can find any males males. Then if they just stay that drab, I'll start looking for another batch of fish to replace them I guess.

For what it's worth, that saulosi was introduced to the tank much later and was much smaller than them at the time. They also were all yellow back then


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## MSullins (Oct 16, 2013)

I know this is a really late reply but they appear to be a Pseudotropheus Demasoni breed of some sort...


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## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

Yesterday, I went to see a fish keeper who had put an ad to sell some white top hara's and he was also selling his adult couple. So I went and bought his male and after looking at his females, I'm pretty much 100% sure I actually beat all odds and got a batch of 11 females. So now this is gonna be one happy Hara male, haha! He also happened to have a few Metriaclima estherae males, so I got one too to replace the one I lost a month ago.

The hara was stunning in the 180g tank he was in, I hope my 55g can still bring the best out of him now! I'll post some pics when I get the chance. I really need to replace that POS lighting though. Time to get to work on a diy canopy and leds!


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## jas1313 (Dec 3, 2012)

I agree with noki 100% female haras look different than that. I also bought "white top haras that are actually metriaclima pulpicans. My females look just like yours. The females do show an extra bar compared to males. But yes "white top", "hara" has turned into a generalized inaccurate description. Either way hara or pulpican as long as you have a group the males are beautiful fish. And if im not mistaken the fish early in your video looks like a pulpican.


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## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

jas1313 said:


> And if im not mistaken the fish early in your video looks like a pulpican.


Actually, he's a Saulosi... He's the only fish in the tank showing some male colors!

The "hara" male I bought didn't make it one day...I was devastated when I got home after work and found him getting nipped at by the others free floating upside down behind rocks  After looking at some more pictures online, he probably was a pulpican male and my females are probably pulpicans too, so I'll be looking for that. I put up an ad to sell my females... I could easily get rid of 6-7 of them now that I'm pretty sure they're all females...I imagine it'll be hard to find takers though...


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## TheJ0kerrr (Aug 14, 2012)

I found someone to take 5 of them and who had a male to trade me. As I took them out, I tried to vent them and they all turned female (vent hole larger than anus). The male is in a hospital tank for now as I think he has bloat...hopefully, he'll make it through, he's still looking good though, just a bit too fat.


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