# Community tank substrate choices...



## Darkrose (Feb 4, 2013)

Now that my cichlid tank is being cycled and such, turning my attention to another project...

Setting up a spare 30g tank in my sons room as a community tank... Just trying to figure out the basics of what I need for substrate... So here's the plan... (also point out any other flaws, such as fish compatibility if you would please...)
30g, glass canopy, LED lighting, heater, etc.
HoB filter...
Planted (not sure what with yet, but I want live plants)
Leftover Thinline 3D panel background.

Fish:
Tetras (jumbo neons and penguin tetras for sure)
Dwarf Gouramis
Blue Ram cichlids
Maybe a Knife? Freshwater eel maybe?
Pleco or maybe Cory Cats, or some other scavenger/algae control (dislike "chinese algae eaters" though)
Color, decent amount of fish, no GloFish (ugh) or guppies, mollies, platys, or goldfish...

Just didn't know for substrate if I should go with gravel, sand, or a mix of the two? Or is there a good compromise coarse sand/fine gravel? Probably in brown/tan/grey/natural look


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## Call_me_Tom (Feb 11, 2013)

You can't go wrong with sand. A lot of people use Pool Filter Sand because it's clean, looks great, cheap & neutral.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think you have to know your stock before you decide on substrate. I can't imagine a 30G that would be big enough for a knife or eel, what are the dimensions?

For a 30G planted tank I'd choose one of the tetras, or gouramis or rams. And maybe some otos for algae.

If you want a planted tank you might choose a plant substrate...depending on the plants you choose as well.


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## Darkrose (Feb 4, 2013)

Call_me_Tom said:


> You can't go wrong with sand. A lot of people use Pool Filter Sand because it's clean, looks great, cheap & neutral.


That's what I've got in my cichlid tank that's cycling now, just wasn't sure about using it for a planted tank because I see so many choices of substrates out there for planted tanks. Didn't know if they were better, worth it, necessary, etc.
Just wish pool filter sand had some more color variety...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Pool filter sand may work for some plants and not others...what plants have you selected?


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## Darkrose (Feb 4, 2013)

Haven't selected plants either, not in a real rush on that tank, just starting to look around and put lists together...
Found a "easy plant package" that has
Anacharis
Stargrass
Japanese Fans
Dwarf Lily
Dwarf Onions
ambulia
Saggitaria Subulata
Red-Spot Ozela Sword
Crypt Walkeri
Java Ferns
Supposed to have low light requirements and no CO² required

It's standard "30 tall" I think they call it (my tape measure seems to be missing, assuming a certain 5 year old may have something to do with that, lol). When I was a kid my parents had a couple clown knifefish in the same tank with various community fish, but I can pass on those... After looking up some more fish, trying to narrow things down a bit, no real rush...

Can:
Jumbo Neon Tetras
Penguin Tetras
Killifish
Bolivian Rams
all work together?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

That plant list has differing requirements for light and substrate. Java fern likes the light really low and it attaches to rocks or driftwood...no substrate. Swords and crypts like a little more light and they like a rich substrate.

Truthfully the plant selection and maintenance may require much more effort than the fish selection, LOL.

If you want the ultimate in easy and low light, I'd stick with java fern and anubias.

I'd just do the rams, but maybe another Member has more experience with the others.


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## Darkrose (Feb 4, 2013)

Well, I saw the plant selection at:
http://www.azgardens.com/c-61-easy-life ... kages.aspx

And it's advertised as low-maintenance, less than 2w/gal light, and no CO² needed, so was just going by that...

On the fish, trying to pick fish my son likes as well as fish I like...
He LOVES tetras (most kids do it seems), I prefer Jumbo Neons, Penguins, and Rummynose, he just likes color and flash, heh.
I've always wanted rams, but they won't work with my peacock/hap tank (temperament and water both)
Guppies, mollies, platys, swordtails, etc. bore me to tears (personal preference I guess)

Looks like more research may be needed...

Can substrates be mixed with good effect? Such as patches of gravel in/on the sand?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

It can be almost impossible to keep gravel and sand separate in the tank, especially when putting new plants in and replanting/moving older plants. Fine grain sand may make it more difficult to keep new plants planted because they don't have the root mass yet. A strategically placed rock or plant weight will help keep them in place temporarily.

If you are looking for colored sand, see if there are any distributors for Spectraquartz or Colorquartz (may be difficult to find as it's discontinued) in your area. If you want black sand, check out BillD's suggestion for black blasting sand, usually available at tractor supply.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Remember, plant sellers need to make a profit too. 2W per gallon is pretty high light and I have not found that to work well with java fern and anubias (unless I also added CO2).

Try a post in the SA forum to inquire about the combination of rams and tetras in a 30G.


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## Darkrose (Feb 4, 2013)

When it comes to watts/gallon, how do you figure LEDs? I didn't look and see if the box for mine had an "equal to" wattage rating like most household bulbs do... Probably need to find the light I'll use, check the wattage, and go from there for a good start?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You are right to question that, but there is no easy answer. Actually the measurement that should be used is PAR units, which is the intensity as perceived by plants.

For each type of bulb you need to create a chart to determine the PAR produced by the bulb versus the distance from the light. I've seen charts showing LEDs in the range of 20-60 micromols range if the bulb is 20" away from the plant. For example Marineland double bright 48" falls in the middle of this range and Marineland double bright 24" falls at the lower end.

To find out how much light intensity you have, a PAR meter is used. PAR meter prices can range from $2000 to $35.

Always subject to interpretation, but a low light tank might have 15-30 micromols of PAR.

As stated...you could spend a year researching and understanding all the variables in the world of plants.


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## Darkrose (Feb 4, 2013)

The one I'm looking at shows 4 PAR at 24", is the standard of measure micromols?

That was the 24-36" Marineland Single Bright, the double shows 19 PAR at 24"... So that's pretty low?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

How many inches from the plants?

I could not find info from someone with a PAR meter on the single bright Marineland fixtures.

If the bulb is 4 and the fixture is 19 (depending on how many inches from the plants) that would fall into the low light category. IME good for the java fern but IME maybe not enough light for the rest of the plants on that list.


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## Darkrose (Feb 4, 2013)

It was showing the single bright LED fixture as 4 PAR at 24", which is the total depth of my tank, so the plants wouldn't necessarily be that far away...

The double bright LED fixture was listed as 19 PAR at 24".

Plants take as much research as the fish don't they? Lol.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

So since we know the double bright is 40 at 20" then that's not low light.

I'd go for the single bright. Or I'd buy a PAR meter, LOL.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

Darkrose said:


> It was showing the single bright LED fixture as 4 PAR at 24", which is the total depth of my tank, so the plants wouldn't necessarily be that far away...
> 
> The double bright LED fixture was listed as 19 PAR at 24".
> 
> Plants take as much research as the fish don't they? Lol.


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showt ... p?t=160396

That article might help  & Yes, if not more research, actually it does take more research. Honestly it's a little overwhelming sometimes :lol:


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## Darkrose (Feb 4, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> So since we know the double bright is 40 at 20" then that's not low light.
> 
> I'd go for the single bright. Or I'd buy a PAR meter, LOL.


I'm confused about where the numbers came from...

I'm looking at the Marineland spec sheet, and the 24-36" double bright is listed as 35 PAR at 12" and 19 PAR at 24", where is the 40 at 20" coming from? The sheet I'm seeing has no specs for 20"... 
Am I missing some info/specs somewhere?

Same as the forum thread linked above:

*Marineland Double Bright*
PAR Data(Source) PAR vs. Distance from source
18-24 inch fixture: 30 PAR @ 12", 17 PAR @ 24"
*24-36 inch fixture: 35 PAR @ 12", 19 PAR @ 24"*
36-48 inch fixture: 54 PAR @ 12", 26 PAR @ 24"
48-60 inch fixture: 73 PAR @ 12", 35 PAR @ 24"
Notes: Should provide low light for most tanks, depending on fixture size.

Also that thread considers it "low light"...

I've got a feeling plants will make my head hurt...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It's not from the manufacturer...someone had a PAR meter and measured.

People will consider different amounts of light low...evidence is the plant vendor that said 2 watts per gallon was low.

Now that you have the basics, you can make your own decisions...enjoy!


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## Darkrose (Feb 4, 2013)

Ok, makes a little more sense now.

I think with all this information overload, I'm just going to focus on one tank at a time for now, get my Cichlid tank up and running and stable, and work on getting the other tank cleaned and prepped a little at a time...

Thanks for all the help!


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Dec 14, 2009)

I've already overloaded, and would be happy to help you  I'm actually enjoying the plant stuff a little more then my fish stuff to be honest, and feel a little guilty about that haha.


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## Darkrose (Feb 4, 2013)

Well, with all the lighting requirements and such to digest, and plant choices, and not 100% definite on the fish choices yet, it'll be a while. Since I'm setting this up in my son's room, it'll be a tank on the cheap too, so I don't intend to buy any really high dollar lighting and such. 
The HoB filter is an old Tetra? that I've got left over, the tank was given to me, along with the heater. Just going to replace the canopy with a glass one and go for an LED light to keep down on heat and electricity consumption... Something to amuse my almost 6 year old that I'll let him half call his, lol.


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