# Head Shaking... :(



## craziloki

So I've noticed quite a few of my fish shaking their heads vigorously for short periods of time.. Seems that the cyps are more frequent. I don't see any signs of ich, no labored breathing.. Just the curious head shaking. :? I am thinking of dosing the entire tank with praziquantel (prazipro). I don't think a hospital tank would work because most of them are shaking. 
any ideas of what this could be? :-? 
Flukes? Ich? any other ichy scratchies?
Help would be great! any advice?
Im planing a 50% water change followed by treatment tomorrow.(salt/prazi)
Thanks


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## BelieveInBlue

Umm... I think the males are just displaying to the females... When my dwarves want to breed, the male faces the female head-on and starts to shake really quickly for lik 5-10 seconds, with fins erect and gills flared out. It's usually followed by some side to side flashing and a bit of nipping/chasing; it's normal  Unless obvious signs of distress/disease are visible, I wouldn't do anything about it; they're probably just a bit frisky :lol:


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## triscuit

Go ahead with the water change, but don't treat just quite yet.

Tell me about your water chemistry- pH, GH, KH, nitrate...

And, since we're at it, please give the tank details: size, stocking, how long it's been set up, how you do your water changes, etc.


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## craziloki

Ok it is a 55g 48".
Rena XP1 (UGJ) and Ehiem 2213 (top return)

3 sub adult a.comp
6 adult occies
3 cyps ( i know i know im getting more)
1 e. cyanos
1 hybrid syno

The a.comps, occies and cyps are shaking their heads.. I dont see the other 2 enough to know.

pH: 8.0 , I dont know my hardness, nitrates are 25ppm, my ammonia level was a little high above 0. temps are steady 75*F.

I thought it was flashing at first because it was only the a.comps. Now all the fish I see are doing it. 
Tank has been set up for over a year, the media in the ehiem is older than that. I have a window fairly close so I drain the water right out the window with siphon. Then I fill with buckets using prime.


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## triscuit

craziloki said:


> my ammonia level was a little high above 0.


This is your answer. Why isn't your ammonia zero?

Do an extra water change and stop feeding for now.


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## craziloki

I know, Im not proud..
I have to revamb some things. 
Do you think ammonia is irritating their gills? thats the shaking?


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## craziloki

did a 50% water change and added 5 teaspoons of salt... (25g worth) i have 55g
Should I add more salt tomorrow?
1 teaspoon recommended for every 5g..


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## triscuit

I'm still trying to figure out why you have ammonia- you're not over stocked, you have sufficient filtration... can you bring a water sample to your LFS and have them test it for ammonia, nitrite, and hardness?

How long has this tank been set up? Did you disrupt your filters accidentally? (Cleaned them both in the same week or used hot tap water to rinse the media...)

If you have another tank, grab some of the filter media and throw it in there. I think the salt you've added is fine, if your fish are only flashing a bit and your ammonia is almost zero, it's best just to wait it out. Please watch your nitrite very carefully. It's much more toxic and only a very small amount of nitrite will kill your fish.


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## craziloki

Thanks, I dont know why i had ammonia, I only did one test.. Maybe, i should have followed up with another. It was the bright yellow (0) with a tint of green (25ppm) so I estimate it being between the two, becaust it wasn't quite either.. Let me look through my multiple test kits i might have another nitrate test kit and such..

Hold off more salt you say?

thanks for the advice


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## FishyFaceFriend

I'm posting in case someone in the future searches for "shaking," gets here, and becomes alarmed. The shaking you described is normal, and is indictive of good heath. The fish is showing off, feeling dominant. It makes sense that they would do it more after a water change, especially if you moved any of the stuff in the tank. They are showing dominance and being territorial. Check out this thread http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=234129


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## triscuit

In this case, it is likely that water quality was the issue, I'm not sure how you can conclude otherwise with the given information.


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## FishyFaceFriend

I'm not an expert, but ammonia between 0 and 0.25 should not cause a problem.

All I'm saying is that shaking that looks like a seizure is normal cichlid behavior and is not a sign of trouble (nor a sign of no-trouble).


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## triscuit

Any measurable ammonia can cause flashing. 0.25 ppm isn't enough that I would expect obvious duress, but it is enough to irritate gills. Fish shaking can be normal behavior, but in this specific case we have identified a change from normal behavior and cause for it. At any time when fish behavior changes, it is best to test the water and see what might be going on. My best hope is that someone who "searches for "shaking"" does arrive here and decides to test their water. When water quality is acceptable, then they can afford to be unconcerned.


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## FishyFaceFriend

yes, they should test their water. And they should also know that cichlids shake to display to each other, especially if their territories have been disturbed. Just as you can disturb the bacterial environment in a tank, so can you disturb the social environment. People are very quick to douse their tanks with medicine, and that's not good either if it's not necessary.

My goal in posting is that someone who notices a fish shaking for the first time might freak out and think something is seriously wrong, when in fact it's a normal behavior. I was not responding to the OP with advice. It is strange if suddenly ALL of the fish shake when they never did it before.


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