# Red Top Hongi



## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

Had my African cichlids a month now after previously keeping discus. Must say, these fellas are much more fun, not to mention far less WC hassle - 30% twice a week always feels like I'm being negligent...

My one concern though is my dominant red-top hongi, who's boisterous/aggressive already, at two inches. I'm looking ahead to when he reaches full size, potentially six inches, and wondering already if he might need to go to the other tank I don't yet have. He's obviously most aggressive to the other red-tops, of which there are three, but at one time or another he likes to dish it out to practically anyone, even if they're two, three times his size. So far it extends to some pretty prolonged chasing, nothing more that I've seen, but maybe when he's bigger that won't satisfy him, and I wondered what other people's experiences of red-top hongis were?

The main concern is that I've also got four juvenile Afro Jalo Reefs in there too, and I could see that one kicking off at some point. As I said, I'm new to African cichlids, so took the advice of a well-respected breeder who told me the mix he was selling me was fine. I'm beginning to wonder, though. I'd appreciate your opinions on the mix he sold me for my 70-gallon, which is:

4 juvenile red-top hongi 
4 juvenile afro jalo reef
4 yellow labs
3 steveni taiwan reef
4 OB fire
3 fryeri blue ice
4 juvenile rubin reds
3 firefish

There are plenty of caves for them to hide in, but the tank's not ideal for mbuna/peacocks at slightly less than four feet long.

I'd rather avoid the expense of a new tank but, if people think it's definitely going to be necessary, I'll go for it. Any opinions much appreciated. Thanks.


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

Oh, and 3 freibergi eureka...


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## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

I wouldn't advise having that many species in a 70 gallon tank, also watch for hybridization between your haps/ peacocks.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Lee- What are the tank dimensions? That is a lot of species for a tank that isn't 4' long.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Peaocks will crossbreed as will peacocks and fryeri. I'd choose one species among those/tank. I can also see the afra and hongi having problems since they are both blue barred fish if you decide to go with mbuna instead of haps/peacocks.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Remove that fish and another will likely take up the same behavior. Cichlids can be aggressive and territorial its in their nature, I wouldn't be concerned about it unless he has all the fish cowering at one end of the tank or if they start to take some real damage other than a few split fins.

If this is a show tank, I don't have any problems with having a large variety of species, but in your case you just have too many fish. 32 by my count which is probably double what you need. I think you also have some conflict with too many peacocks and I'm not a fan of putting the fryeri with this group. If it were me I'd probably return or sell a bunch of your fish and go with something like the following:

4 juvenile red-top hongi 
4 juvenile afro jalo reef
4 yellow labs

and 1 of the following groups:
3 steveni taiwan reef
4 juvenile rubin reds
3 firefish
4 OB fire

or:
4 OB fire
4 juvenile rubin reds
3 firefish

and 1 of the following groups:
4 juvenile red-top hongi 
4 juvenile afro jalo reef
4 yellow labs


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Lee- What are the tank dimensions? That is a lot of species for a tank that isn't 4' long.


It's a metre long, tall at 60cm and fairly deep at 45cm. Discus loved it because of the height but, obviously, that's not so beneficial for African cichlids. I am planning a nine-feet-long 'proper' mbuna tank, but that's very long-term and probably won't come to fruition for a couple of years at least.


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

Chester B said:


> Remove that fish and another will likely take up the same behavior. Cichlids can be aggressive and territorial its in their nature, I wouldn't be concerned about it unless he has all the fish cowering at one end of the tank or if they start to take some real damage other than a few split fins.
> 
> If this is a show tank, I don't have any problems with having a large variety of species, but in your case you just have too many fish. 32 by my count which is probably double what you need. I think you also have some conflict with too many peacocks and I'm not a fan of putting the fryeri with this group. If it were me I'd probably return or sell a bunch of your fish and go with something like the following:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice, I much appreciate it. I'll have to think carefully about stocking for this tank because, it now appears, I've had some poor advice. This is exactly why I went to a respected breeder, to get proper guidance, because one of the few things I knew about African cichlids is that they need overstocking to prevent aggression. Perhaps that one bit of knowledge has been seized on and misused to sell me too many fish? Ultimately, the breeder's a business and needs to make money, but I thought his obvious love of the fish would override any more cash-based motives. You live and learn...

Having said that, I did do some research before plunging in, and I know that sort of stocking level, while maybe not 'ideal', is far from unusual. Other people seem to cope fine with it, and as I know the water quality's excellent from the Seneye that's constantly running, I'm going to keep a close eye on it rather than acting immediately. I have no evidence it's 'broke', so I'm not going to fix it until I know otherwise.

As you say, also, the extent of the red-top's behaviour isn't too bad- yet. He certainly doesn't have his tankmates "cowering at one end of the tank", although that could change if he reaches six inches. It's more chasing and trying to reinforce/establish the pecking order. I've seen no evidence of split fins either and, a month in, it appears to be a very happy tank with them in the main peacefully co-existing, eating well, exploring and being inquisitive. The ammonia and nitrite are both at zero, surely the first sign of no overstocking problem, and the nitrate is low too. Having kept discus, you get a sort of sixth sense for unhappy fish, and these fellas seem very content.

I have plans for another tank but, until I move to a bigger place, I can only manage a 200-litre, cubed-type tank, so I'm initially thinking of maybe putting the red-top hongis in there, maybe with the yellow labs, to thin out the main tank a bit?


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

I should add that I have the same excellent filtration I had with my discus, namely one large external and a huge, air-driven sponge filter which, between them, are turning the water over between eight and nine times per hour. Also, I'm changing a third of the water now three times a week, so the whole tank's being changed every week. I know that's not a panacea for overstocking, but it is a big help until I can achieve the permanent solution of a new tank.


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