# Demasoni won't breed for me :(



## CoryWM (Feb 16, 2008)

I have 19 demasoni, 3 yellow labs, 1 marble horned pleco, 3 1 inch albino bristlenose pleco, in a 100g aquarium. Now the Demasoni bread a couple months ago in the store's aquarium, before I even took the guys home(I had them on hold, my tank was still cycling.) So I setup what I can only imagine as a kingdom for these little guys, now it seems no breeding is going on.

Please point out any glaring factors.

100 gallon tank. 5 feet long. 18 inches wide.
Filtration fx5, Powersweep powerhead 228, hydor 3 powerhead(circulation on bottom of tank in back pointed towards the fx5 intake.

Lighting Was pretty bright, coralife fixture with nighttime leds. Tonight I switched it to a single 4" florecent tube, for some more subdued lighting to see if that helps.

Temp 80(little higher than I'd like, I think due to the lighting, cause turning down the heater had no effect on temp the next day)

PH 7.8( PH is always lowest on any test kit outa the tap)
Nitrate 10ppm(going to bring this down more, will do another water change tomorrow

substrate: sand
Tons of Tufa rock to hide in.

I don't have any "flat rocks" such as a peice of slate. Is this essential to the breeding process? If so I can pull a bunch of rocks out, and put some flat pieces on top of the sand, then restack.

Here is a shot of my tank.


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## Cichlid Power (Oct 11, 2006)

How often are you doing water changes?

What are you feeding? How often?

Any idea on your ratio of males to females? For a while my colony was very male heavy and the females were too stressed and when they did breed only hold for a day or two. I cut it down to 1 male in a 55 and now lbreed very regularly.


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

Do you get to see your fish with all that rock??? 

I'd say mainly you just give it time. You could try to get your male female ratio perfect, but it's quite difficult to sex them. With 19 I'd say you probably have enough and you just need to wait a little.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I think you have too much rock and too few demasoni...

There aren't any open areas in the tank, and the tank is large enough to aquascape differently.

Plus, it will hold alot more demasoni and yellow labs! :thumb:

Your nitrates are fine...No need to try to get them down any lower!

Kim


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## CoryWM (Feb 16, 2008)

I definately want more demasoni and yellow labs! It's all a matter of them coming in stock. Yellow labs sell out fast at all the chain stores(i don't like to shop there anyways) and the local breeder's mom has been very ill. So he hasnt brought any in to my mom and pop store. So I've just been waiting.

I may do a rescape. Just to mix it up. I was thinking about redoing it once I got more fish in there... But it's been a while.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I would remove alot of the rock, or at least go with smaller rocks. That black sand is too nice to cover up like that, and it will force your fish out in the open more if you change it up and remove some of the hiding spots.

I seriously can only see two fish, and I'm not even sure I see those! :lol:

Good luck on finding more stock!

Kim


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

How long have they been in the tank? Maybe they just need to settle in a little more?


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## CoryWM (Feb 16, 2008)

Still looking for help. I took out a ton of rock. To see if that was the problem. Also added a couple of flat rocks incase they needed that.

100 gallon tank. 60 inches long, 18 wide.
Filtration FX5.
I had bright lighting on the tank. then changed it to subdued lighting.

Water Parameters:
PH 7.4-7.6
Water hardness 150ish.
Nitrates 5ppm or less.
KH 100
Temp: 78 degrees.

Demasoni 19
Yellow Lab 3
3 Albino bristlenose(1 inch size)
1 Marble horned pleco 9 inches
Will buy more soon. Still waiting to find some nice specimens locally.

I'll update with pics once my company leaves.


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## Trinidad (Nov 24, 2007)

Hmmm... The PH should be at around 8, at least. 7.6 will not do at all. That is the major problem, in my opinion. You should add some crushed coral into the tank (put it in a nylon if you don't want to mix it with the gravel)

Cheers!


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## CoryWM (Feb 16, 2008)

Trinidad said:


> Hmmm... The PH should be at around 8, at least. 7.6 will not do at all. That is the major problem, in my opinion. You should add some crushed coral into the tank (put it in a nylon if you don't want to mix it with the gravel)
> 
> Cheers!


Already have crushed coral in the filter, in a nylon sock. My water is like 6.0 out of the tap.


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## CoryWM (Feb 16, 2008)




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## jhunbj (May 16, 2005)

Trinidad said:


> Hmmm... The PH should be at around 8, at least. 7.6 will not do at all. That is the major problem, in my opinion. You should add some crushed coral into the tank (put it in a nylon if you don't want to mix it with the gravel)
> 
> Cheers!


Ph of my 75G is 7.2-7.4 and my dems r breeding like crazy. :lol: :wink: Do more WC...like twice a week.


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## CoryWM (Feb 16, 2008)

I just noticed some behavior between two of the dems. I'm pretty sure it was breeding behaviors. They were chasing everyone away from the flat rock, and shaking at each other... Like they were having seizures.

Seem typical?


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## Desi&lt;3 (Feb 13, 2008)

LOL and i still only see 6 fish! :lol:


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## CoryWM (Feb 16, 2008)

Desi<3 said:


> LOL and i still only see 6 fish! :lol:


You can see 7 in the top picture! Hopefully they'll start poppin out babies, so you can see more


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Trinidad said:


> Hmmm... The PH should be at around 8, at least. 7.6 will not do at all.


Wrong...My ph is 7.6 and I wish my mbuna would slow down on breeding...

You may have an exceptionally high male ratio, and they just haven't worked things out yet. They still look pretty young.

Kim


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## Desi&lt;3 (Feb 13, 2008)

If they do, we want pictures 

There arent any labs in any of the pictures! Did you hide them on us???? :-?  :lol:


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## Azrider (Dec 6, 2005)

Also, most of the demasoni that are avalible are pretty young. When I got my group they took three or four months to get mature enough to spawn. It could be just a young group. I would not worry about the pH, as long as you can keep it consistant. I always like to see my rocks stacked up near the back of the tank, with a lot of open space. I am sure however that that is more about my prefrence than the fish's. I just like to be able to see them.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Mine took a year. Females can hold at 1.5 inches, but IME the males have to be really full grown.


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## CoryWM (Feb 16, 2008)

The only reason, I'm expecting breeding.. is because they bread at the shop before I was able to take them home. And yeah, I might buy some more yellow labs this weekend, but they only have full grown ones for sale at the moment, or fry


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## Desi&lt;3 (Feb 13, 2008)

Hope you find the sizes you want!

Good luck, it may take them a while to truly be happy in their new home so just give it a little time! :thumb:


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

I say just give them some time. Do your water changes and let nature take it's course. I got my dems in August (about 1"), got my first batch (3 fems holding) in March, second batch (3 females holding) in mid Apr and I have another female currently holding. Just set your tank up, keep up with your maintenance and let nature take care of the rest. Maybe you can work on setting up a nursery and grow out tank...when they start breeding, you'll have more than you can handle.


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## CoryWM (Feb 16, 2008)

obviously one of my fems is now holding! a watched pot never boils... unless you look away 

What's the survival rate on fry if I don't seperate the fem from the tank? If like 1 lives per holding I'd be ok with that. I don't want to stress the moms out too much if I don't have too. I'm fine with slow growth in stock


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

If you have lots of small rock piles with areas only large enough for the fry to get into, some should survive. I had a great fry mortality rate in my demasoni tank.

Kim


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Do not try this at home, but I have a beat-up adult Demasoni in a hospital tank with 20 newborn lab fry, and he totally ignores them.

(I know it may not last, but if he eventually has them for a snack, that's not the end of the world either. The fry are from some labs going to auction.)


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## gaqua (Apr 11, 2008)

I have some Demasoni that are all about 1.5-2" long, and they're breeding. They seem to breed right after a water change all the time, and I change the water weekly. (usually about 25%).

Actually they were in my 46G bow-front before, and one was supposedly carrying when I got them about 6 weeks ago. Then, when I set up my new 75G last month, I took out all the rocks and plants 46G and transferred the Demasoni to the 75G. They like the extra room.

The other day I was looking at my 46G (now a malawi/tang community tank) and I saw something small and dark move around. I inspected more closely and saw a single Demasoni fry. It's been 3 weeks since the others have moved to the other tank, so he's been in there all by himself with some Cobalts, Labs, Helianthus, 5 synos and 2 bristlenose plecos, and he's managed to survive. He's probably about .5" long right now, but the blue and black bars are visible.

I don't think there's more than 1 but there could be. My expectation is that the others either got sucked up into the fluval or aquaclear filter or eaten by the other fish. :\

But I've got 2 Demasoni holding in my 75G right now, so we'll see. I don't expect too many fry from them though, they're so small.


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## fiupntballr (Jul 7, 2004)

I do not know if this is superstition or not but it seems to work
and was amazing when I kept alot of mbunas including demsoni...

I would time my water changes 3 days right before the full moon and new moons...

also are you feeding live food?
brine shrimp before the water changes is pretty good in stimulating them.


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## Tula (Sep 9, 2007)

If i leave my holding Demasoni in the main tank, i very rarely see any survival, maybe two from several holds-although this has only been since they have started to mature more. The other day I actually saw a crowd of Demasoni shoot up from the rocks towards the top of the tank-what were they chasing? a Lab fry, and i don't even think it would have fit into their tiny mouths :roll: Demasoni start breeding so small that they can only hold a few fry in their mouths, so if they only spit 6 or so, it's hard for them all to survive. Where as my Acei used to spit 30+, my main tank was crawling with baby Acei.

Try like some of the others have said, put a few piles of small river stone in the tank, that way the fry can maybe hide in there and the other fish can't get to them. Also, cover up any intake tubes you have so the fry don't get sucked up. A sponge works good for this. I tried covering an intake with pantyhose and i just found fry stuck to that-the sponge helps to cut down on the flow a bit.

If you want them to breed more frequently try doing a few water changes close together (so if you do a change Friday do another on sunday) and keep the temp around 80.

And be patient, once they get comfy in their new home the males will start to stalk the girls :fish:


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## LED (Aug 3, 2003)

I have no flat rocks at all in my demasoni tank. Just shells, flowerpots, and driftwood. I have super hard water so the driftwood doesn't effect much. I have about 45-50 demasoni in the 135G and a breeding group of 10 Tropheus. A few small plecos too.

I also thought you just had too much rock. It probably took the fish too long to find a mate and then when they did the time was past......or you shut off the light for bed! 

It is hard to tell size from the photos though, but the fish could be a bit small. They spawned at the store, but was it a viable spawn? Did fry appear or did the females just hold??? Some fish will make trial runs and no fry will come of it. Sometimes this will happens several times. Eggs and holding females, but nothing else happens.


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## Cichlid Power (Oct 11, 2006)

Still never said what they were being fed? Diet can make a big difference with some fish.


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