# Do fish puke?



## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

Every once-in-a-while I look over at my tank of C. Afra (had them for 6 days) and there is a this cloud of white debris, about .5mm in diameter. Is this vomit, and does it mean they are sick?

-Brian


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Not that I'm aware of...

I have seen them blow food out their gills and cause a bit of a cloud, but not actually vomit.

Unless you're witnessing some sort of "coughing" motion from the fish prior to seeing this, there's really no way to figure this one out.

The tank was pretty cloudy looking in the full tank shots you posted. Has that part settled down yet?


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

No, it is still a bit cloudy, and has been since I upgraded my filter to a Fluval 304. I have tried the wal-mart clarifying drops, but another reader seems to think it might be a bacteria bloom.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The products they sell to clear water aren't worth taking home.

I'd watch my water parameters closely. You cycled this tank before adding the fish, didn't you? (I'm thinking you did, but can't remember what you did to cycle it...)


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

I sprinkled flake food in the water for about 5 days, tested the water, and added 2 Ps. Acei that were getting beat up in another tank. They were in the tank for about 2 weeks before I added the Afras and have been doing fine. Everyone is eating and seem generally happy.


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

Kim, if you are interested, I have uploaded short videos of the fish' behavior. Here are the links...

http://s277.photobucket.com/albums/kk71/brianmccord2001/?action=view&current=MOV03423.flv
This is a fish who does not look good at all.

http://s277.photobucket.com/albums/kk71/brianmccord2001/?action=view&current=MOV03424.flv 
This video shows a fish with some sort of scale damage. Some of the females have the same thing. That is how they looked after I brought them home (1 hour ride)

http://s277.photobucket.com/albums/kk71/brianmccord2001/?action=view&current=MOV03425.flv
And this is a video of a lonely straggler that seems to spend all of her time here on this spot on the DIY background.

I hope they make it out ok.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

How long have you had them now?

They look really stressed. I don't blame you for being worried.

You can always expect it to take a few days for new fish to settle in, but with this being a fairly new tank, you never know what might be going on.

Is there a powerhead in the tank? They look like they are being bounced around a bit by water flow...If there is a powerhead, I would try turning it off (or down) for awhile and see if they behave more normally. If they aren't used to it and the flow is too much, that could stress them out a bit.

The scale damage looks pretty bad. They weren't this way when you bought them? It isn't cottony or fuzzy looking in person, is it? Were they bagged together? (For fish this size, I never bag two together to transport them...)

I'm just really hesitant to have you put any meds in the tank since it's so new.

Have you added any aquarium salt? That will aid in healing.


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## quiksilver (Mar 2, 2007)

try making the power head hit the glass to slow the flow through the tank. if that is running all day and all night the fish probly arnt resting.


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

Well, i just turned off my powerhead, and now they seem to be swimming blissfully. At first, it seemed they were enjoying swimming in the current...but I suppose that might get old. Kind of like jogging on a treadmill that wont stop :roll: My filter puts out a decent enough current (260 gph) in my little 30 gallon tank, I'll let it go a few days without the powerhead.

Kim, I have added cichlid salt, and have been dosing with Melafix for the fin and scale damage. Suppose I should give that a couple of more days.

And also Kim, I've only had them 6 days now, and they were already packaged up at the LFS. Around here, it is really difficult to get C. Afra, so when he said he had my breeding colony, I took them and ran. I have dealt with this guy before, and all of his fish have been top notch. I'm hoping to nurse these guys back to full health...the dominant male is incredible.

The scale damage is not cotton or fuzzy, and the males were in 2 separate bags, but all 10 females were bagged together. The females have the majority of the ragged fins and scale damage. The dominant male had a split tail, but that has already healed. The subdominant male has a little bit of fin damage, but he also is starting to heal.

Thank you Kim and quiksilver for all of your help so far.

-Brian


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I once had the bright idea to put a powerhead in a tank of adult breeders that I'd raised from little ones. I stressed those fish out so bad that it took me months to get the tank back in shape...One problem after another...

You may not need that at all in that size tank.

I think everything will be fine once you let them settle in well. Just watch your water parameters, keep the water pristine, and keep me posted! :thumb:


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

I woke up this morning, and the water is still cloudy. Im going to try replace the activated carbon in my filter, and see if that helps.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You're sure it's not cloudy from the substrate? Was it cloudy before you added the fish? Before you turned the powerhead on?


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

It was a little cloudy, but I assumed it was my concrete background leeching out. The sand was rinsed thoroughly...shouldnt the filter catch up with the debris?


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

And it almost seems like it is getting more cloudy.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Did you cure out the background in water properly? (I've never done this, but I think you have to take some special steps to do it right...)

On the off chance that it is debris, here is what I would do...

First check the water parameters and make sure all is well.

Then, go to the automotive department of any large chain store or auto parts store. Pick up one of the microfiber car detailing cloths, and put it in your filter for a few hours. This will clear it up if it's debris.


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

Could low O2 levels be part of my problem here? I noticed this morning after shutting down my powerhead, the fish started gathering towards the surface. I added an air disc, and they now are resuming their "normal" behavior. I have the output from the filter aimed at the surface, but it only agitates 1/2 the surface of the tank. Now with the bubble disc, there is a layer of bubbles on the surface popping.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The Fluval should be putting plenty of oxygen in the water.

How long ago did you change that filter out?

How long ago did you add the sand? Was it there from the tank set up?


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

I added the filter the Fluval has been in there since roughly June 1-3. The sand has been in there from the get go.

I didn't do a water change yesterday, tested my water today...and this is the results:

p.H. 7.6
Nitrate - 5 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Ammonia - 0 ppm

I added p.H. increaser and aquarium salt to raise my p.H. back to 8.0. It was 8.0 yesterday and dropped to 7.6 today.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I wouldn't use the ph adjusters that the LFS sell. I've seen them cause more problems than anything else.

A ph of 7.6 is fine. A _steady_ lower ph is better than your ph jumping all over the place.

In reality, for tank raised mbuna, anywhere from 7.0 - 8.0 is fine.

If you need to buffer the water, use the buffer recipe in the library to do it, and add the ingredients slowly until you obtain your desired ph. But the only reason I would do that is if you were buying wild fish straight from the lake.

I'm a little worried about that concrete background not being cured. I would pick up the microfiber cloth and add it to the filtration for a few hours.


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

Ok, I'l try that. I replaced one of the carbon media bags in the filter, and it seems to be clearing up. Also, the fish are acting better. They are all coming out and the flashing is much less frequent.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

cichlidaholic said:


> A ph of 7.6 is fine. A _steady_ lower ph is better than your ph jumping all over the place.


Definitely - I've seen this type of thing put enough stress on a fish to kill it in a short period of time (a couple days).


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

Ok, no more chemicals, I'm not going to do anything more than just wait.


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

I have 2 females that are staying close to the surface. My water parameters are the same as yesterday. Powerhead removed.

I'm thinking it was just a bad batch of fish. I've only had one die since they have been in the tank,but at $15 a pop, it kinda hurts.

I can't figure out anything else to do.

-Brian :-?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Brian, it may just be too many fish for the 30G tank. The behaviour of those females sounds like a stress reaction. How many afra total?

What are the dimensions of the tank?

How large are the fish? (If you paid $15 each, they should be adults!)

For some reason I thought this was a 40G until I looked back through the thread this morning.


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

I have had this batch of C. Afra "Jalo Reef" for about a week, and there are two fish who seem to be slowly dieing. Don't know what is going on. Water parameters:

p.H. 8.0
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrites 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm

It isnt white spots on her scales, it is actually her scales falling of. I have another afra which isn't so severe. I don't have a hospital tank. Does anyone know what this disease is? I initially thought they were just stressed from the transport for the LFS (1 hour)...but now there are 2 females which are starting to look really bad. All others are doing fine.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Brian, I combined these two threads since they are dealing with the same issue, and the original thread contained all the information.

Let's get the answers to the last questions I asked you...

Again, I believe your females may be stressed out by being kept in too small of a tank with too many fish.


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## brianmccord2001 (Apr 9, 2008)

OK, let's start with the tank. 30L, 36" x 17" 12". I have a total of 11 Afra, 2m/9f. The males are mature @ 3", and the females are about 2.5". I do have 2 Ps. Acei in the tank that will be leaving soon.

Sorry about the multiple posts.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I really really believe those girls are just taking a beating from the males.

If you really want to keep them in this tank, I would remove one male, and remove the two females who aren't doing too well and put them in a hospital tank...NOT with that male!

You will probably have to remove some females permanently, and at that size, you may even find you have more males than you think.

I think you've overstocked the tank size, and you're going to have to scale back. :thumb:


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