# Any small blue cichlids?



## juhason (Nov 10, 2013)

So I currently have a 40 gallon tank with a convict cichlid and a jewel cichlid. I would LOVE to have a nice blue cichlid in there. Are there any that I can keep with the fish I currently have that will be able to fit in a 40 gallon?


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## rmcder (Jul 9, 2005)

Honduran Red Point has the coloration, but not the toughness of a convict. The hrp LOOK like convicts, which could generate some hostility from the convict, and the jewel's aggression level is worrisome as well.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

HRP's were my first thought as well.. Is your 40gal a 40 breeder or 40 long? If you were to go with HRP's I'd recommend removing the Convict from the setup as well. Like mentioned above, they look quite similar and they will most likely not get along very well, or if they're opposite sex, pair up and spawn.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Pseudotropheus demasoni stays small (~4") and is a nice blue color. They have very high conspecific aggression, so you would be better off to stick to just 1. https://www.google.ca/search?q=pseu...Gsl4C4CQ&sqi=2&ved=0CJIBEIke&biw=1600&bih=773

Blue acara might be another option for a blue cichlid, although they will eventually get rather large for a 40 gallon. They can get 8".

I think to make a cichlid community work out, you really need to start out with at least 5-6 cichlids.

Some other options for cichlid tankmates that stay small. Kribensis, male or female, I've often found to do quite well with smaller cichlids like jewels and convicts. Even breeding pairs were not too aggressive and very undemanding of space with tougher cichlids as tankmates. Firemouth is an option, though there is always a greater chance it will get picked on by the convict. Smaller pike cichlids. A belly crawler pike usually does not get too large.

As far as the blue color, a blue gourami (Trichodopus trichopterus) often will do fine in a cichlid tank. It will receive some attention from the cichlids so it does work as a target fish...though not nearly as well as another cichlid will in distracting/diverting aggression. Giant danios do well as dithers, making the cichlids feel comfortable and outgoing...though they are less useful as target fish as they will often be ignored by the cichlids for the most part. A group of 4 or more would be worth a try.


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## juhason (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the feedback! I'll look into all these fish. As for the jewel though I think I actually have a relitively docile one. He is actually bullied by my convict, who is a demon. (It used to be really bad but my jewel started standing his ground a bit.) so my convict is te real worry in this set-up. Maybe I will have to get rid of him...


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## dmoore (Nov 11, 2013)

I wouldn't completely rule out the Honduran Red Point. From my experience with them, they're very good fighters when they need to be, and don't back down from much. I've witnessed my tiny 2.5" male HRP duke it out with my Firemouth who is easily twice his size, and reign victorious every time.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

juhason said:


> He is actually bullied by my convict, who is a demon.


Only 2 cichlids in the tank? Seldom is that a sufficient number to make an aggressive cichlid tank work. Don't expect that to work out well....especially once the fish get bigger and older.

One will be dominant over the other. No surprise that the convict is "top dog". I kept jewels for over 15 years altogether, and convicts for over 30. If I have ever had jewels dominant over convicts, it's very seldom and very briefly. As well, IME, as jewels get bigger and older, they always seem to lose "toughness" relative to other aggressive cichlids. Cichlids learn....and they learn how to deal with their opponent's style of combat over time. But both these cichlids are often able to use their smaller size as an advantage over larger fish. Whether the fish is male or female often makes a big difference as well. More often, males are larger, more aggressive and more capable (the exception being a female that is paired up with a male). Even so, I've had large female convicts as single specimens dominant over large male jewels!

What else is in the tank besides the 2 cichlids? 
Introduction can be tricky sometimes. Your best to add a bunch of fish all at once, and re-arrange decor with a large water change. Add at least 3-4 cichlids, and some other fish such as a blue gourami (3-spot, gold or opaline), paradise fish and giant danios (4 or so). Bottom feeders? A bristle nose pleco or Chinese algae eater would be suitable for the size of tank.


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## juhason (Nov 10, 2013)

BC in SK said:


> juhason said:
> 
> 
> > He is actually bullied by my convict, who is a demon.
> ...


 Well thank you I really appreciate the advice! However, what would be considered too many fish? I don't only have cichlids, I should have mentioned i have 6 tiger barbs, who have also helped take attention away from the jewel, a common pleco(who i plan to get rid of soon and replace with a smaller one, he doesn't even eat algae like I wanted!) a baby pumpkinseed (who is not permanently residing there), and a 3" blacknose dace who is adorable and entertaining. (however neither cichlid pays any attention to him unless he is stealing their food, which he often does.) I'm trying to also make my aunt happy, and she doesn't think the blue gourami is "blue enough" :? and she doesn't like stripes.  so I'm trying to find something blue or purple without stripes, which is probably impossible. What other cichlids do you think I should add?


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## rmcder (Jul 9, 2005)

Small mbuna?

Not an ideal solution by any means, but the only thing I can think of which might work.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

juhason said:


> so I'm trying to find something blue or purple without stripes,


Well there is the newly developed strain, 'electric blue acara'. Third picture in this link: http://www.houstonfishbox.com/vforums/showthread.php?60256-Some-pictures-of-my-CA-SA-cichlids
Don't really know too much about it nor how available it is , yet. Would not expect it to be too much different then a regular blue acara ( :-? )...though quite often line bred aquarium strains are a little smaller, less aggressive and less capable!



juhason said:


> 6 tiger barbs


Well, no need for the giant danios then.



juhason said:


> a baby pumpkinseed (who is not permanently residing there), and a 3" blacknose dace


Well as long as the pumpkinseed is not permanent, I still think you could add 2-4 small cichlids, depending on species. 
If you end up keeping the pumpkinseed for any significant period of time, then view it as somewhat similar to a larger growing aggressive cichlid.



juhason said:


> doesn't think the blue gourami is "blue enough" :?


Are you aware that the man-made line bred opaline strain is "bluer" then the wild phenotype, 3-spot? Opaline :http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile84.html
3-spot:http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/anabantoids/bluegourami.php


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## juhason (Nov 10, 2013)

BC in SK said:


> juhason said:
> 
> 
> > so I'm trying to find something blue or purple without stripes,
> ...


Thank you, you are very helpful! That electric blue acara is perfect, but I doubt I'll be able to find him around here.  I am aware of the opaline gouarmi, however, maybe it's just because they are at the store, but they appear just as blue as the 3 spot. I have no problem with the blue-ness of the gourami, but my aunt thinks they are gray. She's really picky and seems to either pick fish from the ocean (facepalm) or small peaceful fish. I think I'll just get whatever fish I want and she'll have to deal with it.


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## dmoore (Nov 11, 2013)

I'd worry about a blue/opaline gourami in that tank. Tiger barbs tend to get nippy with slower moving fish (like gouramis), and cichlids will tend to pick on anything that resembles their kind (gouramis are distantly related to cichlids). I've had what I would consider an "aggressive" opaline gourami, and he got pummeled on a regular basis by a laetacara buckelkopf (dwarf cichlid) I added later. I wouldn't think he/she would fare too well with a convict and jewel. The only blue fish I would trust with those two would be a blue acara, honduran red point, or an electric blue jack dempsey.


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## rmcder (Jul 9, 2005)

I don't think I'd risk an electric blue jd in that tank; they have enough health issues without adding stress into the mix.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

dmoore said:


> I've had what I would consider an "aggressive" opaline gourami, and he got pummeled on a regular basis by a laetacara buckelkopf (dwarf cichlid) I added later.


Were there other cichlids in the tank? Gouramis certainly can receive a lot of attention from cichlids, especially if there are no other cichlids in the tank. Aggression will be directed some where. And if it is overly aggressive towards the cichlid to begin with....the tables can turn, and it may end up paying for it later. All kinds of circumstances. Of course with aggressive cichlids there is never any guarantee on how things will work out.
3 things: 
1. think with most cichlids, it's not seen as much of a threat because it is smaller. Much smaller fish then either a jewel or convict. Full grown, it's about a 15-20 gram fish. Male convict can get over a 100 grams; male jewel can get over 50 grams; female con about 30-45 grams; female jewel 20-30 grams. Not really in the same weight class, so even for that reason, less concern with it.
2.Somewhat similar, but not a cichlid. Often the problem with a cichlid tank is that there is too much aggression directed towards other cichlids. As long as it receives some attention, then it is serving a purpose in spreading, distracting and diverting aggression from other cichlids. 
3. Preferred territory. While cichlids and gouramis will utilize the whole tank, their preferred territories are very opposite. Cichlids will fight over space on the bottom of the tank. Gourami's area is at the surface. Gouramis will often go into the plants (plastic or real) at the surface....the least useable space for a cichlid. 


dmoore said:


> I'd worry about a blue/opaline gourami in that tank. I wouldn't think he/she would fare too well with a convict and jewel.


Because when you tried housing T. trichopterus with jewel and/or convict it didn't fare well??
Kept T. trichopterus with convict and/or jewel for over 20 years altogether, in 2, 3, 4 , 5 and 6 ft. tanks. Even bred jewels in a 15 gal. and they did fine! :lol: Had many that lived over 5 years in some very aggressive cichlid tanks, and did fine from my perspective. Have lot's of video and pictures if you want to see?
I'm not the only one that does this mix, and the few people that have taken my advice on this forum that I know of, says it worked great with a convict.


dmoore said:


> Tiger barbs tend to get nippy


There just as nippy with cichlids. Gouramis move around slow like a lot of CA/SA cichlids, but posses a "dart". They can strike quickly and move VERY fast over a short distance, in an instant. They can defend themselves quite well from tiger barbs. Of course when a cichlid retaliates, sometimes the tiger barb pays with it's life!


dmoore said:


> honduran red point


Not a good choice, IMO, with a convict in 40 gallons. Virtually the same fish. Likely to have either high conspecific aggression or pair up and breed, depending on sex. IME, 2 male convicts often does not work out long term in a 6 ft. 180 gal., unless you have larger groups (and even then some males don't do so well!).



dmoore said:


> electric blue jack dempsey.


Maybe, but probably risky? :-? Weak, with health problems and my understanding often stressed with aggressive tankmates. And jewel and convict are aggressive cichlids. 
Only 40 gallons. I know most EBJD's don't usually get as large as regular JD, probably because of health reasons, but still has the potential to get to the size of a regular JD. 8-9" or occasionally larger. 
I think you would be better off with a regular JD. But it's a big fish for a 40 gal. and likely would end up eating the tiger barbs.


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## juhason (Nov 10, 2013)

dmoore said:


> I'd worry about a blue/opaline gourami in that tank. Tiger barbs tend to get nippy with slower moving fish (like gouramis), and cichlids will tend to pick on anything that resembles their kind (gouramis are distantly related to cichlids). I've had what I would consider an "aggressive" opaline gourami, and he got pummeled on a regular basis by a laetacara buckelkopf (dwarf cichlid) I added later. I wouldn't think he/she would fare too well with a convict and jewel. The only blue fish I would trust with those two would be a blue acara, honduran red point, or an electric blue jack dempsey.


I did end up getting an opaline gourami today, and I'll tell you what I saw from the first few hours. 
My convict: doesn't care for him whatsoever. He's gotten close to him to observe him, but then swam away. He has only attacked him during feeding, but my con gets VERY aggressive towards ANYONE during feeding. He defends the whole floor to make sure he gets as much food as possible.
My jewel: doesn't particularly like the gourami, chases him whenever he sees him, but doesn't persist. 
My tiger barbs: Tried nipping him when he was first put into the tank, but he turned around and nipped them back. They don't bother him at all now. 
My baby pumpkinseed: Ruthlessly chases him! I never in a million years thought I would have to worry about a baby p-seed attacking anything. But he's quite a bully. Even sometimes to my convict when he tries to attack him. (He's only 1" while my convict and gourami are about 2 1/2")


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## juhason (Nov 10, 2013)

I'd like to say that all is well with my gourami. They do work out with cichlids very well it seems.  He does get bullied but he doesn't care...at all. He just ignores it, and the bullying has died down a bit.


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## dmoore (Nov 11, 2013)

Definitely not the outcome I would assume either  I haven't kept a pumpkinseed in an aquarium myself, but I have heard that gluegills (close relatives) can be pretty fierce. Good to hear that he's holding his own with the barbs and cichlids. Once he gets comfortable, he may teach the pumpkinseed a leson


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

Honduran Red Point Rio Danli. But the Con would have to go.



Or Australoheros Oblongum



....Bill


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