# bolivian ram biotope



## denverone (Nov 5, 2005)

I have a 29 gallon and wanting to set it up for bolivian ram biotope. I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on what fish to add to this biotope. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Hubbynz (May 10, 2008)

I would definately recommend Bolivian Rams for such a tank.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

so, is it just a SA Biotope or are you basing it on a specific river basin?

if it were me, i would choose to do a Amazon River Basin Biotope, which i am doing in the hopefully near future.

i would probably include some oddballs in there, as i really love the weird things:

my stock list would look something like this:

- Bolivians
- 6 Bleeding Heart Tetras
- 2 SA Leaf Fish
- 1 Raphael Catfish
- Fancy Pleco (probably Ancistrus dolichopterus)

if you dont want the leaf fish, which can be a pain to feed, as most require live food, then your options for tetras and the like opens up greatly, leaf fish, though arent aggressive at all, are some of the most predatory fish i have ever seen.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> I have a 29 gallon and wanting to set it up for bolivian ram biotope. I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on what fish to add to this biotope


answer


> I would definitely recommend Bolivian Rams for such a tank.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: That might help indeed to set up a Bolivian Ram biotope, hahaha!

I suggest to check this site for more info on Bolivia. http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_countries.htm


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## fajardoacuarista (Jan 16, 2008)

i have 2 colombians rams, very pretty


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Fajardoacuarista,...sorry but there is no specie labeled as Colombian rams,....They are the Microgeophagus Ramirezi or better known as Ramirezi or shortened as Ram. Those occur in the Orinoco delta in Venezuela and Colombia.

Denverone,...how is it going with gathering info? Was the link helpful?


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## denverone (Nov 5, 2005)

Thanks everyone for the replies. I see there are alot of different fish to choose from. Good thing I have time before I set the tank up.

Thanks again


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

*Dutch Dude* - Columbian Ram is a common name that's becoming more popular over here for the wild color phase, to differ it from the German Blue line bred version ... though of course as we all know, indeed the same species.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Thanks Dwarfpike,...I didn't knew that. A better name would be "wild caught rams" in my opinion.

Denverone,....there is quit some choice but lots of them are hard to get or become large. There are some suitable once like black phantom tetra and penguin fish if I remember it well.


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## IN2_Rams (Jun 11, 2008)

denverone,

If you can find them, you might want to look into Pristella maxilarus (x-ray tetra). They are a great fish and mix well with my BR in my Braziliam Biotope. I find the school to have a nice mix of stationary time amongst the plants as well as spending time darting through the root-maze and such... All-in-all, I've been very pleased with them! :thumb:

dwarfpike,
My LFS just got in some fish they refer to as just Rams (not blue, gold, or BR). They lack the bright blue I'm used to seeing in ramirezi. They color is more subdued, but they are quite striking. Are those the "wild caught Rams" to which you refer? :-?


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

if your looking for nice colorful tetras, look into:

Serpae tetras (can be nippy)
Lemon tetras
Red Phantoms (look similar to serpaes though not as aggressive)
Cardinals
Rummynose
Bleeding hearts (nippy)
Von Rio (Flame) tetras (one of my favorites)

there are more, but these guys are all pretty colorful.

another one id like to recommend, even though it isnt bright and colorful, is the Black Phantom tetras, they are truely magnificent little tetras IMO.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

IN2-Rams,.....rather big chance they are wild specimen. Their colors are indeed more subdued and they have bright orange pelvic fins.


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## denverone (Nov 5, 2005)

keep the ideas coming as I still have time before the tank is going to be set up.

Thanks everyone


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## fajardoacuarista (Jan 16, 2008)

Dutch Dude said:


> Fajardoacuarista,...sorry but there is no specie labeled as Colombian rams,....They are the Microgeophagus Ramirezi or better known as Ramirezi or shortened as Ram. Those occur in the Orinoco delta in Venezuela and Colombia.
> 
> Denverone,...how is it going with gathering info? Was the link helpful?


Originally the Bolivian Ram was called Crenicara altispinosa in 1911. _*Dr. Axelrod put the Bolivian Ram in the genus Microgeophagus, the same as the Venezuelan and Colombian Ram. The Ramirezi (Venezuelan or Colombian Ram) was originally placed in the genus Apistogramma genus but was put in Microgeophagus because its morphology and spawning behavior was different from that of the Apistogramma spp.*_ The Bolivian Ram, with morphology and spawning behavior more like that of the Venezuelan ram, was then put in the Microgeophagus genus as well. Then Kullander came along to make things more complicated in 1977. He gave birth to a new genus, one that would have both Ram species because of the theory that Microgeophagus was nomen nudum. The genus was called Papiliochromis. There are still confrontations between experts as to which name has precedence but a lot of people are in favor of Microgeophagus. Anyone doing research should use the Microgophagus or Papiliochromis genera.


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## fajardoacuarista (Jan 16, 2008)

that are my wild!!! colombians rams... :thumb:


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Are you sure,....aren't they Venuzuela Rams? They look the same! :wink:

Dwarfpike already explained that over there the wilds are labeled as Colombian rams. Over here they are labeled as wild Ramirezi. Scientific name is now Microgeophagus ramirezi but some "old" people to the hobby refuse to give up the old name Papiliochromis ramirezi and Papilochromis altispinosa. Most important is that the diference between wild fish and domesticated is clear. I'll stick to my previous post


> They are the Microgeophagus Ramirezi or better known as Ramirezi or shortened as Ram. Those occur in the Orinoco delta in Venezuela and Colombia.


But,.....to the OP it is more helpful to give him some more info on fish from the Guapore and Mamore drainage in eastern Bolivia. I found a new one for you,.... Carnegiella strigata = marbled hatchetfish. Thats a nice one to!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

There is also an arguement over _Microgeophagus_ or _Mikrogeophagus_, the latter is usually seen in European publications. Micro was described first, but may not have probably properly described and if that's the case the genus would default to Mikro as it was described properly before Kullander's Papiliochromis.

*Dutch Dude* - The reason 'Colombian Ram' has become popular is people were complaining that the wild strain were being sold as 'wild' or 'wild caught' when they weren't, so that term is saved for actual wild caught ramerzi and Colombian for the farm bred/aquarium bred natural strain.


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## fajardoacuarista (Jan 16, 2008)

that cool!!! well all are pretty!!! is only maner of taste.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

The diference in Micro and Mikro is probably becouse of the European spelling mostly uses the K in stead of the C. Germans are fanatic aquarists so probably they introduced the Mikro.

So Colombian ram is used for wild strain domesticated fish? :? Confusing isn't it?

fajardoaquarista,....they are indeed beautiful fish but for some reason I like the wilds the best.


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## fajardoacuarista (Jan 16, 2008)

Dutch Dude said:


> The diference in Micro and Mikro is probably becouse of the European spelling mostly uses the K in stead of the C. Germans are fanatic aquarists so probably they introduced the Mikro.
> 
> So Colombian ram is used for wild strain domesticated fish? :? Confusing isn't it?
> 
> fajardoaquarista,....they are indeed beautiful fish but for some reason I like the wilds the best.


my rams are wild i buy the rams from a wild fish importer, no farm... i have blue rams too, very pretty.


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## Hubbynz (May 10, 2008)

Back to the topic I have a few questions

1) What plants would you expect to see in such a bio type?

2) Species of large tetras from their part of Bolivia?


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

fajardoaquarista,.....I prefer the wild colors of most fish but unfortunately they become rare and domesticated hybridized fish seen to become more popular. I like the wild Rams and probably I will have some later on. I think it would be a nice challenge to breed some and keep the youngsters. They would have wild colors but probably be healthier as most wilds.

Hubbynz,....Bolivian biotope should have lots of plants. The rare reports on the locations were they are caught tell that they live in shallow slow moving parts with heavy vegetation. If this vegetation is reed, grass, echinodorus or real aquatic plants I can't confirm. I have seen pics of the Guapore with a band of vegetation along side. To me this looked like fields of echinodorus growing out of the water. So I expect at least grass, probably large echinodorus species and most likely also Echornia azurea. The E azurea occurs from Venezuela to Uruguay so quit a chance they also occur in Bolivia. But,....I can't confirm any of the plants! So if someone happens to have more info on that I realy like to know!!!

Of tetras I know that Thayeria boehlkei, Megalamphodus megalopterus and Carnegiella strigata occure in the Guapore or Mamore rivers. Of dwarf cichlids A. agassizi and Laetacara dorsigera share the same habitat. As for larger tetras I don't know but on this site you find the list of fish base. http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Bolivia.htm I hope you find some extra species. If you click on a fish specie you will get more info on size temps and so on but also abouth location.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hey *Hubbynz*,

Mongabay is good, but FishBase is better. Sorry Ruurd :wink: .

List of Freshwater Fishes for Bolivia.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Eeehhh,...Peter,....isn't that the same list?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Dutch Dude said:


> Eeehhh,...Peter,....isn't that the same list?


 

Probably as Mongabay take it from FishBase... :roll:

:lol:


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> Probably as Mongabay take it from FishBase...


 :lol: Yes they do! But the website of mongabay works much faster compared to fishbase so I prefer mongabay. To those who would like to find the location of a certain fish specie the next link. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... mapper.php This is also based on info from fishbase. Not all fish are in the database but a lot of common fish are.


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