# frontosa help with tank set up



## maximus1006 (Feb 23, 2009)

hi i am getting some frontosas in about 2 weeks these little guys will be 1.5 inches i was woundering how can i make my ph higher its 7.4 right now and how can i make the water hard my tank is still in cycle mode these little buggers are tank raised i want to have the best tank for them i used some fresh water salt if u go to aquarume set ups and my tank pic is there let me know asap i would like to get the tank stable with a high ph and hard water before bringing them home my tank looks awsome its a 125 gal well i need to run please help and thanks


----------



## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

maximus1006 said:


> hi. i am getting some frontosa in about 2 weeks. these little guys will be 1.5 inches. i was wondering, how can i make my ph higher? its 7.4 right now. and how can i make the water hard? my tank is still in cycle mode. these little buggers are tank raised. i want to have the best tank for them. i used some fresh water salt. if u go to aquarium set ups, and my tank pic is there, let me know asap. i would like to get the tank stable, with a high ph and hard water, before bringing them home. my tank looks awesome. its a 125 gal. well, i need to run. please help, and thanks.


 there. that's a bit easier to read.  you can raise your ph by adding baking soda to the water. you will need to experiment a bit, with the amount required, to make the alterations you seek for your specific water source. you should have no difficulty raising your ph to 8.0-8.2 this simple way.


----------



## maximus1006 (Feb 23, 2009)

Sorry my spelling and puncuation is horible ill try to do better,thank you for your reply and do i just add one table spoon then test after like an hour then go from there? I realy appreciate the help i want the best for my fronts :thumb: so any help is awsome for me and my fronts


----------



## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

maximus1006 said:


> ...do i just add one table spoon then test after like an hour then go from there?


 add 1 level teaspoon for every 2 gallons of water. then test after a day.


----------



## maximus1006 (Feb 23, 2009)

thanks for the advice i will do this this week end should i do a partial water change first,my tank has breen in cycle for allmost three weeks now thanks in advace


----------



## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

lloyd said:


> maximus1006 said:
> 
> 
> > ...do i just add one table spoon then test after like an hour then go from there?
> ...


That is bad advice for two reasons. First, chances are that is way more baking soda then he will need.

Second, it is not a good idea to experiment with you tank water. The easier and safer solution is to fill a bucket of known volume and add the baking soda to the bucket. You can test water in the bucket to come up with the correct amount of baking soda to use for the whole tank. I would start off with 1/2 teaspoon for 5 gallons of water. Test the water again to see how the pH and KH changed. If you still need more then add another 1/2 teaspoon. Repeat this until you reach the level you are looking for. Keep in mind that when using baking soda as a buffer, the pH will max out at 8.3. Once you hit a pH of 8.3, adding more baking soda will not increase the pH any further.

One question though, why do you want to raise your pH? Keep in mind that most LFS keep their tanks at a pH close to 7. So if you raise yours to 8.2 then when you transfer the fish to your tank, that will be a potential problem.

Most importantly, for a stable pH you need to measure the KH value. I would do that before you make any changes to your water.

One last question, why are you adding salt? Although there is probably no benefit to doing so, keep in mind then when you add salt to your tank, you need to account for water that has evaporated. When tank water evaporates the salt is left behind. If you don't modify the amount of salt you add to account for evaporated water you will eventually end up with a much higher than desired salt concentration in your tank.


----------



## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

Here is a cichlid buffer recipe. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php

I don't usually worry about ph. As long as it is stable at no less than 7.4, I would leave it the way it is. Changing water and ph up and down will stress the fish more than keeping it consistant, IMO.

I am not sure if most LFS keeps ph at 7.0 I know a few LFS around do use a separate system other than their central system so that they can keep their PH up.

And lastly, I don't know why I added salt. I do that all the time though. This is one of the thing that I always tell myself. If it is working fine, don't change it. Something to do with relaxing the fish and promoting the slim coat...


----------



## maximus1006 (Feb 23, 2009)

here it is in a nut shell. i set my tank up 3 weeks ago and decided i wanted frontosa mind u i know that these guys get pritty good size. I plan on upgrading my tank in a year or 2 i ordered 20 babys! I will weed out as they grow. im used to keeping reptiles and i made a perfect habbitat for almost every one and breed mostly every one of my herps. So i decided that I would make a perfect lake Tanganyikan tank "try to mimic" there inviroment. i used salt becouse years ago i breed the firemouths and as soon as i added salt to there tank boom i had babys all the time. might have been a coisadance but it worked i thought adding the salt to my 125 that it would help these little guys when i get them and like i sayed im here to ask questions and learn if i sounded rude while typing this i did not mean to i talk better than i type and spell. And any advice is VERY appreciated so i should leave the tank alone? no more salt and dont mess with the PH and the hardness of the water i will be buying a test kit to check my water for hardness. Now being these little fish are tank raised dois it matter what the water is? As in hard and a high PH? i just want to take care of these guys as good as possable. Oh i was at the fish store were im getting my fish and he had a monster blue sp of frontosa i mean huge wild cought hard to get but it stayed on the surface of the huge tank he was in this dude was light blue with blackish grey stripes awsome fish!


----------



## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

boredatwork said:


> ...chances are that is way more baking soda then he will need...


 no such thing. water saturates at ph=8.2. any remaining baking soda lies dormant amongst substrate until that condition is alleviated. this 'remaining quantity', after the water has reacted to it's potential, is the actual 'buffer'. at the ready, for any future interaction which might attempt to reverse it's new set of preferences. adding 'excess' baking soda is actually the safer dose, ready to marginalize any circumstance where ph might drop.
the only risk, of using baking soda as a buffer, is the attempt to utilize it for holding PH lower than 8.2. for example, if 8.2 was deemed too high, and a keeper was attempting to bring 7.0 to 7.6 only, then baking soda would be a poor buffer choice. swings toward 8.2 would be very difficult to avoid.


----------



## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

the water here in my area was around 7.0 or just a tad below that.
i put about 40lbs of texas holey rock and it hits 7.8. however, after i do 
about 25% water change, my ph would drop back down to 6.8 to 7.0. 
im wondering if water change is getting stressful for cichlids due
to flactuating ph numbers.

i will try the baking soda as a buffer next time and see how that works.
i always learn something here everyday.


----------



## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

mel_cp6 said:


> ...however, after i do about 25% water change, my ph would drop back down to 6.8 to 7.0. im wondering if water change is getting stressful for cichlids due
> to flactuating ph numbers.


 many materials, that have buffer qualities, can be quite slow to give it up. especially, if they have aged, or have been covered/choked with algae, etc...because baking soda is a fine powder, it will dissolve much faster than most deco rocks (coral, aragonite,etc..), helping to maintain control of your adjustments. 
also, there may be a buffer within your tapped source, added to reduce/stabilize PH within the pipe. you should call your water company for further details. anything they add, to bring down/stabilize their PH, can/will have a diverse affect towards your efforts.
providing stable water parameters, different from source, is a difficult task. no wonder so many say 'don't do it.'


----------



## maximus1006 (Feb 23, 2009)

i did it lloyed and the breeder herlped me!


----------

