# Got a 75g for Christmas, will this stock work?



## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

I've always wanted a good size tank ever since I was a teenager. At various points in my life I've had 10, 20, and 40 gallon tropical community tanks but I always wanted a cichlid tank. Finally after moving into a place big enough my wife gave me the okay to spring for a 75 gallon. I always thought I would want just a wet pet oscar but I like the idea of multiple fish. So now for yet another newbie can-these-fish-be-housed-together thread.

I'm thinking a Pearl Scale (Herichthys carpintis), a severum (can't decide green or gold...any other severums to consider?), and a pair of convicts (either two pinks, two blacks, or one pink one black). And then of course the obligatory pleco (leaning towards a Thomasi Pleco L-187b)

Is that too much for only 75g?


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

How about swapping the convicts out for a more peaceful relative like Nanoluteus? Or Rainbow cichlids? Or Keyholes? Ditch the Texas and get a pair of severums, and the pleco.


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

Upon further research and looking for more peaceful fish, I stumbled on Robertsoni Cichlid and pictures look amazing. And then per your recomendation I'm thinking

Robertsoni x1
Rainbow Cichlid x1
Thorichthys aureum x2 (or single with a pair of rainbows)
and the Thomasi Pleco

Or... I Like the cookie cutter set-up from this site:
Peaceful CA Community #2 
• Hypsophrys nicaraguensis - 1 pair 
• Amphilophus margaritifer - 1 pair 
• Hyphessobrycon columbianus (Tetra) - 10

Could I add the pleco or maybe a striped raph to the cookie cutter? Any thoughts on one versus the other?


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

belltold12 said:


> Upon further research and looking for more peaceful fish, I stumbled on Robertsoni Cichlid and pictures look amazing. And then per your recomendation I'm thinking
> 
> Robertsoni x1
> Rainbow Cichlid x1
> ...


The first stock list I don't see working out very well. A. robertsoni are highly aggressive towards conspecifics, so I foresee it not getting along very well with the T. aureum which are more docile. Also, Rainbows do better in groups, or at the very least paired. Therefor I don't see a lone one thriving in that setup either. Perhaps ditch the A. robertsoni and do a pair of each -- Rainbows and T. aureum?

The second stock list.. not so sure about either. I would like to think those two pairs could coexhist in a 4ft but my better judgement tells me otherwise. I had a pair of Nics claim nearly my entire 6ft tank. Not to mention, you'd be hard pressed to get your hands on some Amphilophus margaritifer.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

belltold12 said:


> • Amphilophus margaritifer -


That's a name in the hobby from quite a few years back. It is well known today that what was being referred to as "Amphilophus margaritifer" in the hobby a few years back, was either a regional variant of _Astatheros robertsoni_ or an undescribed species closely related to _Astatheros robertsoni_.
Anyways, this fish isn't really around or available today......though other strains of robertsoni are.
The real _Astatheros margaritifer_ may not have been seen since it was described by Gunther in 1862.(?) Extinct(?), very rare (?), hybrid genetic dead end(?).......though various unidentified fishes have been proposed to be the real margaritifer over the last number of years!


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

Yeah after seeing that cookie cutter set-up I quickly realized those set ups aren't your typical LFS stock. Do LFS typically special order the not so common varieties or is it just easier to pay $40 in shipping and buy online?

The more I try and figure out now the more I'm thinking of just a pair of severums and the Pleco. A couple of pictures of adult Golds have me sold. My wife has expressed interest in catfish and really likes the Arius jordani (black fin shark, Colombian shark, Jordan's catfish) and I really like raphaels. I'm afraid the cats would just wipe out any attempt at having a school of dithers. Any thoughts on cats and cichlid combos?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

My take on paying for shipping is pretty simple. If you know what you want, and can get what you want, and it's of quality stock, then it's worth it. No reason to limit yourself on a tank you'll be enjoying for 10+ years.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

belltold12 said:


> Yeah after seeing that cookie cutter set-up I quickly realized those set ups aren't your typical LFS stock. Do LFS typically special order the not so common varieties or is it just easier to pay $40 in shipping and buy online?
> 
> The more I try and figure out now the more I'm thinking of just a pair of severums and the Pleco. A couple of pictures of adult Golds have me sold. My wife has expressed interest in catfish and really likes the Arius jordani (black fin shark, Colombian shark, Jordan's catfish) and I really like raphaels. I'm afraid the cats would just wipe out any attempt at having a school of dithers. Any thoughts on cats and cichlid combos?


A pair of Sevs would work well in a 75. You could also then add some sort of larger robust dither species as well as some catfish/plecos. I'd steer clear of Colombian sharks as once they begin to mature they require brackish water.. they can even thrive in full on saltwater! A group of Spotted Raphaels would work well, however they are mostly nocturnal. A few other choices to look into are Flagtails, Portholes, or Hoplos. All three of those species do well in groups and are mostly diurnal (active during the day).


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

I went back to my LFS to ask about special ordering different species and looks like it shouldn't be a problem. Also they have some gorgeous red sevs now!

I guess this can be moved to SA forum since I'm going that direction now.

Equipment wise I'm thinking an eheim 2215 w/two penguin 350's. And two Jager 150w. My LFS say the two HOB should be enough surface agitation to oxygenate the water.

Should be getting everything set up next week and hopefully adding fish by the end of the month!


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I'd ditch the two 350's for either a single AC70 or 110. I'd also just go with a single 200w heater and call it done, two 150s is overkill.

If you'd like me to move this to the SA forum, I can. Let me know..


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

Well you just saved me more money to spend on Decor lol. I was going off the "3-5w per gallon" and thought two 150's put me right in the sweet spot.

If I go with a single HOB would I need to add a power head or something else for more aeration?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

The Eheim will come with a spray bar. With that and a larger HOB like the 110, you will be set for surface agitation. You could always add a circ pump later on if you feel the need for more flow in the tank.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

In all honestly, I feel you'd have enough surface agitation with JUST the Eheim. With that said, I still think you should get a second filter. You can't go wrong with an AC70 or 110. They hold loads of media and move a ton of water.

As for a heater, a 200w should be plenty unless your tank is out in a cold garage or something. I have a single 300w in my 135gal and with ambient room temps at 68F, the heater has no problems keeping the temps stable.


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

No cold garage. I'm gonna say our new apartment is probably in the low 60's when we're not home. I am a little worried about the summer though, our last apartment when it was 90* outside would be 100+ inside. This new place already seems a to be better insulated but there's no way to know until the weather warms up what it's gonna be like.

So if I go pair of sevs, trio of pictus cats, a pleco, and a school of giant danios I should be okay on space? How many danios should I go with? And would that stock pretty much top me out or would there be room for something else later down the line if say my wife just had to have that red tail shark she saw. Or if the LFS throws silver dollars on sale for stupid cheap...etc.

The multiple tank syndrome is starting to take hold although sadly our current situation probably wont allow for much more.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Yikes 100+ degrees in your apartment?! Obviously no AC? I'd be concerned about my own welfare in those temps! 

You should be good on space, although the Pictus cats will prey heavily on any fry that the Sevs produce. If you go with Giant Danios you can get a decent sized school 8-12, however why not go with some sort of tetra? Better looking in my opinion but if you like the Danios, by all means get them. As for Silver Dollars, they get quite large and I really feel a 6ft tank is needed to keep a decent sized school of them as they can be quite skittish when kept in small numbers. You should also be ok with adding a Red tailed shark or something similar. I'd even consider adding another cichlid instead; I think Festivums would make a good fit as they occupy the upper regions of the tank.


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

You know when I saw pictures of the giant danios I thought they were just a plain simple silver fish, but then when I saw them in person I was blown away by how much color they actually have. I like tetras but I'll never forget when I was younger and just bought fish for my tank because I liked them without any sort of compatibility research, I brought home a pictus cat and let it out of the bag and literally on the way to the bottom it snagged a neon tetra to snack on lol. So figured the size of the giant danios would keep them off the menu. I realize there are tetras that get bigger then neons (buenos aires, colombian, penguin, etc.), so I guess it's just gonna come down to what the LFS has in stock in the quantity I want.

As far as other cichlids, I like keyholes, rainbows, and festivums, so if they're available I might go that route. Any other cichlid in that size/temperament range that is particularly colorful? Laetacara curviceps and dorsigera, and all the rams look beautiful as do most Apistogramma but are the little cichlids too little? Or maybe a Geophagus? It sounds like their behaviors are a lot of fun to watch.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Mature Giant Danios can definitely look good. There are also a few other more "exotic" variations that I have seen for sale at my LFS that look pretty cool.

As for other cichlids, I'd think a group of Keyholes or a Festivum could potentially work. Geos are best kept in larger groups of 5+ so I'd unfortunately steer clear of them. Just be mindful that it is only a 4ft aquarium with a future pair of Severums. I have no first hand experience with Sevs so I can't say how a pair behaves in a community..


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

All my equipment is on order now save for the 2215 and the ac110 (still waiting on that bonus which is supposed to be deposited "late the week of Jan 13" so hopefully any day now).

Another trip to the LFS and extensive experimentation with aqadvisor.com has me pretty decided on the following stock:

1 Severum 
4 Festivum
3 Pictus Cats
1 Bristlenose or Rubber Lip pleco
1 Red Tail Shark (wife really wants it)
School of Buenos Aires Tetras

According to aqadvisor I should be good with that. Any issues you see? Now the problem is I can't decide which severum... I was thinking either Red or Gold, but I was going for a more natural look and feel like either Green or Red Shouldered (Rotkeil) would be a better fit... I know you said you have no first hand experience with sevs but do you know if any of them differ in size or temperament that would make one better for my set-up then others?


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I'd say your stocking looks good. However, I wouldn't say aquadvisor is a very accurate source for stocking -- a good starting point at best.

As for which Sev to go with.. I'm not aware of any behavioral differences between them so it's down to which you like the best. I'm not much of a fan of the Red/Golds as I feel they look very "artificial". I actually had a large Green Sev for a short while and she was a cool fish with a goofy behavior, a bit bland looking though. I'd probably go for a Rotkeil..

Good luck putting the final pieces of your setup together and be sure to post up pics when you get everything up and running! :thumb:


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

Got it decorated and decided I should fill it with water. I hope that doesn't screw anything up as my filters aren't here yet. I figured taking out some water when they arrive wont be the end of the world. I haven't dosed with prime or bacteria yet. Just wanted to see what everything look liked because I figured it'd be easier to change decorations now if I didn't like it. Filters are showing up tomorrow so I can set those up when I get home from work and then start working on treating the water. I guess I could/should do pH tests now? Now here's hoping whatever I stock has the same taste I do in plant location lol. Next pictures will be in a few weeks once it's cycled and there's something swimming in there.


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Looking good! :thumb: Not much of a pot man myself, but they certainly are convenient..


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

Yeah I didn't think I was going to go that route but I decided just to check them out. Home Depot had the scalloped edge one which I thought was unique enough that it would look nice. Then I saw that the regular ones were only $3 or $4 and figured it couldn't hurt to pick one up. Turns out it made a perfect prop for my mopani driftwood.


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

Okay using my API Master test kit, pH was just a smidge darker then 7.6 and high range pH was spot on 7.4

I haven't treated the water with prime yet as there was a mix up with UPS and I am finally getting my filters tonight. I don't think my test kit has a kH or dH test, is that absolutely necessary?

Also I ended up getting the Aqueon Pro 250w heater as it was on sale so I couldn't resist. With the knob set in the middle of 76-80 it will shut itself off at about 79.2 degrees but then in the morning it will be all the way down to like 75.6 with the red light on that it's working again. Is that an okay temp swing or should i get a better quality heater?


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the kh or dh readings, however I guess it wouldn't hurt to know. For the fish you're keeping they should be just fine.

What is the temp swing in your house like? The heater shouldn't be allowing your tank to drop four degrees.


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

Temp swing in the house is sort of a mystery. Our new apartment has an old school style thermostat. When I woke up this morning the tab that indicates the ambient temp was closer to 60, so i'm gonna guess 62 or 63. We usually only run the heater while we are waking up which would bring the place up to the low 70s. Once the chill is out of the air we turn it off and just wear sweaters or it doesn't matter because we're not here. i'm going to guess during the day it probably hangs out in the high 60s. I also turned the heater up to the "80" mark since the article on fishless cycling says warmer is better. This morning the water temp was 81.9. Is there a formula, knowing a 75g volume with a 250w heater, how long it should take to heat to a certain temperature? Or is there too many other variables like ambient temp, decorations, heater quality, the fact that there's current from the filters/air pump etc...

Set up the filters last night. Holy **** who ever wrote the instructions for the Eheim 2215 needs to be painfully punished. Added prime before I went to bed, and this morning I dumped in my bottle of Tetra SafeStart Plus. I have Dr. Tim's Ammonia chloride and added 75 drops per the bottles instructions. It has begun!!! lol


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

Ended up getting a new heater through the absolutely outstanding customer service of Dr.'s Foster & Smith and this one is holding the water at 80.4* pretty much everytime I check it. I was using an azoo temp controller but noticed it was causing the other heater to spaz out and the indicator light on the heater would just sit there and flicker between off and on. I decided to just trust the heater by itself and use the azoo controller as another thermometer with alarm functions.

As far as cycling goes... I started the tank off with a bottle of Tetra SafeStart+ but also started adding API Quickstart (since at PetSmart it's like $22 for SS+ and only $9 for quickstart). Either way the tank cycled **** fast and after a water change this morning it's at 0ppm ammonia 0ppm nitrites, and 5ppm nitrates. Time for fish!


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## CjCichlid (Sep 14, 2005)

Sounds good! I'd start by adding the dithers and wait a week or so before adding the cichlids to let your filters catch up, avoiding an ammonia spike.


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

Okay so more time = more opportunity to change my mind/feed the addiction. I ended up getting my dithers and two festivums and then after watching videos on YouTube and looking at pictures... Got a new tank for them so that I can have the 75g for a wet pet after all lol.

I'm torn between a Jag or a Red Devil. There's a RD locally that's got a big black splotch over its face that looks pretty cool. If they're not entirely red does this mean it's likely a RD/Midas hybrid?

Any other non typical (ie not readily available at PetSmart) wet pets to consider for a 75g?


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## belltold12 (Jan 1, 2014)

Now I'm torn again...

I'm thinking of continuing with my original stocking in the 75g and using my other tank for a pair of firemouths (+ swords/mollie dithers). Was thinking convicts originally but the firemouths seem just as entertaining to watch defend fry and seem to be significantly less common. Going this route also allows me to have more fish which is a plus.


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