# Newb Here, Tell me if I'm crazy



## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

Hello all,

I've had small tanks before, like 10 gallons just to house little fish for the kids but it wasn't really that interesting to me because it was so small, I was more of a pond guy and maintained a successful koi pond for years, but that was easy after it was set up.

I picked up a nice 55 gallon tank and cabinet from a neighbor for free and figured I'd start back up since after the divorce she gets the house and pond. I've been reading a lot about Cichlids, they certainly are beautiful fish, but all that's written is pretty scary. I thought 55 gallon was big for a home unit but have read that's the minimum size for African cichlids. First the basic question. As a newb, am I biting off more than I can chew with an aggressive fish? Is 55 gallon acceptable? Or should I just do a community tank with mollies and neons etc.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

48x12x19


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Welcome to Cichlid-forum!

55G with your dimensions is a great tank for many/most African cichlids. Choose fish that mature <= six inches and medium to low aggression.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

Great starter tank. Cichlids are not difficult to keep. Not sure what is making you conserned. I assume it's the aggression issue. With some planning it should not be overwhelming. Consider housing Tanganyikan cichlids. Much easier to create a true community set up then with Malawian or south American cichlids


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

Cyphound said:


> Great starter tank. Cichlids are not difficult to keep. Not sure what is making you conserned. I assume it's the aggression issue. With some planning it should not be overwhelming. Consider housing Tanganyikan cichlids. Much easier to create a true community set up then with Malawian or south American cichlids


Yes, the aggression issue is one thing, but frankly, i'd be the same if I decided on something different. I want to do everything correct this time, so I'm doing a ton of research even before the first drop of water goes in. I think I decided on cichlids because they are the most colorful without going saltwater. I'm going to look at the ones you suggested....Thank you.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If color is your priority, you may end up back with Malawi.


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## SantaMonicaHelp (Oct 1, 2012)

Nah, you're not crazy. Good luck with the fish!

-Kamran


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

this is the beginning, just washed it out and finally pickup up a filter. Didn't even get as far as water.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

I picked this up off craigs. Turns out Penn plax mfg near me and they posted this for sale as it was running fresh water for a trade show. Saved some cash and it's like brand new.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Having an aquarium that close to a dart board would make me nervous lol!


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## FireHorn123 (Apr 16, 2017)

All male Malawi tank would be good for a 55g. Do you have a prize range for the fish you want? Do you want them adults or do you want to start them as Juvi to watch them grow? Do you want peacockS? Do you want haps? Do you want both? Maybe you want Mbunas. There are a lot of things to consider when getting your first tank. You could even do a South American/ Central American tank. Having a 55 really opens up your options. So tell me what kind do you want?


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

FireHorn123 said:


> All male Malawi tank would be good for a 55g. Do you have a prize range for the fish you want? Do you want them adults or do you want to start them as Juvi to watch them grow? Do you want peacockS? Do you want haps? Do you want both? Maybe you want Mbunas. There are a lot of things to consider when getting your first tank. You could even do a South American/ Central American tank. Having a 55 really opens up your options. So tell me what kind do you want?


I've looked at Peacocks, Mbunas they are all beautiful. I would prefer young fish to watch them grow but I noticed that many sellers don't know the sex when they are young, so making an all male tank would be difficult. I'm open though, I noticed that most of the cichlid varieties are colorful and I will be fine with most. Frankly though, whatever makes a nice aquarium with lowest problems is ideal.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

If colour is it then malawians are the way. But you also said less hassle. Behavior is important though and compared to malawians tangs are much better in that regard. While they might not have extreme colour there behaviour is almost intelligent. Malawians are brutes. Trying to eradicate other subspecies. Tangs are specialized filling each niche.
Your going to love cichlid no matter what. It just regrets different techniques.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you go with Malawi, want color, like to watch them grow and lowest problems, I would recommend mbuna. All male is a challenging tank, especially in a 55G. Three species, 1m:4f of each and consider species like yellow labs (Labidochromis caeruleus).

Tangs are great too...lots of shapes and lots of contrast with black/white. Shellies for the bottom, calvus or julidochromis for the rocks and non-jumbo cyprochromis for the upper levels makes a great tank.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

Wow, I have so much to learn. You guys are throwing out names that I have to look up.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

good luck... lol...
just keep calm and take your time choosing...


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

I've been looking up Malawi, very nice fish. Do you need to get multiple of the same? Like a small school or pick and choose?


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## FireHorn123 (Apr 16, 2017)

My favorite of the Malawi's are the Peacocks. In my opinion they are one of the most laid back cichlids(unless you get a hyper aggressive male which is always a pain). As long as you don't get similar looking peacockS and have a good variety I see peacockS being your best bet. They are less aggressive then Mbuna. They also have a much more flexible diet than Mbuna( Mbuna can get bloat if you feed them food with protein too high). So you can feed peacockS basically anything from blood worms to miscis shrimp to your regular cichlid pellets. In my opinion peacockS also have the best color too. It's all up to you. They are all great.


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## FireHorn123 (Apr 16, 2017)

ironspider said:


> I've been looking up Malawi, very nice fish. Do you need to get multiple of the same? Like a small school or pick and choose?


Depends what Malawi your talking about. All are not really "schooling fish" per say but they do swim in groups sometimes. But they usually create pecking orders. That's what overstocking with males does it takes away the aggression and spreads it throughout the tank, which in turn keeps all of them healthy. I would stay away from getting multiple of the same unless your doing a species tank. Try to get as much variety as you can get and don't have too many similar looking fish, this can create aggression. So if your going with Malawi what kind of Malawi do you want?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

If you decide to go with peacocks, avoid the jacobfreibergi species in a 55, they're better suited for a 75 gallon or larger because they are aggressive. So avoid the "Jakes" or Lwanda types...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The problem with haps and peacocks (love them, see my signature) is that females are drab. If you want peacocks in spite of that go for 1m:4f and one species per tank. If color is your prime directive, maybe not for you.

An all-male tank is challenging (high problems), difficult to stock unless you buy adults (can't watch them grow up). If these are goals, maybe not for you. Especially in 48x12. Read the all-male article in the Cichlid-forum Library for help in evaluating the challenges.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

There are so many in the Malawi arena that I haven't even narrowed it down. Sure, I'll take one of each.


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## FireHorn123 (Apr 16, 2017)

ironspider said:


> There are so many in the Malawi arena that I haven't even narrowed it down. Sure, I'll take one of each.


That most likely wouldn't work. Mbuna don't mix well with peacockS and haps. Peacocks and haps mix well though.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

ironspider said:


> There are so many in the Malawi arena that I haven't even narrowed it down. Sure, I'll take one of each.


    ...


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

Can you guys/gals give me a quick setup sequence based on your experience? Obviously substrate first, then water, then filter, heater etc. This tank is a lot bigger than what I've done in the past and don't want to catch myself flat footed.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Rocks before substrate. And I would assemble/position all the apparatus before you add water. Otherwise it sounds right the way you have it.

Then allow six weeks for your cycle.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Rocks before substrate. And I would assemble/position all the apparatus before you add water. Otherwise it sounds right the way you have it.
> 
> Then allow six weeks for your cycle.


Rocks don't lay on the sand?

I guess I need to gather some rocks too.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Rocks need to sit directly on the bottom of the tank because it is more stable; the fish will move the substrate around and it may undermine the rocks.

Yes you need to gather rocks, especially if you are choosing Mbuna or fish that use caves, hiding holes or similar spots to hide. Look for rocks that aren't round or flat, irregular shapes that allow easy stacking or piling up, are stable when stacked and still provide openings large enough for the adult size of the fish.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Also people tend to choose small rocks...go from fist sized to head sized.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

Deeda said:


> Rocks need to sit directly on the bottom of the tank because it is more stable; the fish will move the substrate around and it may undermine the rocks.
> 
> Yes you need to gather rocks, especially if you are choosing Mbuna or fish that use caves, hiding holes or similar spots to hide. Look for rocks that aren't round or flat, irregular shapes that allow easy stacking or piling up, are stable when stacked and still provide openings large enough for the adult size of the fish.


Thank you... Rocks are rocks though, just the right size and shape, doesn't matter where they come from? Just wash.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Well you don't want rocks exposed to fertilizer, pesticide, road sides. A landscape supplier is likely to have the sizes you seek and inexpensive.

They are likely to get some algae, so color is not so important. Free of rough, sharp surfaces/edges that can injure the fish. Scrub with hot water and a stiff brush to remove debris.


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## FireHorn123 (Apr 16, 2017)

Also the type of rock don't use rocks that can dissolve in the water.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

So I found the rocks I'm going to use. I have two pallets of tumbled Pennsylvania bluestone at the ex's house. But now I'm all up in the air on substrate. I see many people with just simple play sand, but that felt like dirt when i touched it at Home Depot. I just want something good for the fish and hopefully on the easier side of keeping it clean. This is making me crazy I haven't even started cycling yet.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Pool filter sand, 100% silica. Go to a pool and spa supplier...around here Leslie's is a chain.


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## The Morning (Nov 22, 2017)

For substrate I was very happy with Caribsea Cichlid Sand. They have about 5 different varieties. They have some that come delivered wet and are supposed to already have helpful bacteria. For me the best part was that there was no rinsing needed. 24 hours after adding water completely clear.


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## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

Pool filter sand is great. $8 for 50lbs and it pretty clean. I dump it straight in without washing it, what little cloudiness clears is a day.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

is there another name for the pool filter sand? I search on Leslies and nothing comes up. Maybe a link?


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

ironspider said:


> is there another name for the pool filter sand? I search on Leslies and nothing comes up. Maybe a link?


pool filter sand at lowes

pool filter sand at lowes

pool filter sand at home depot

hope it helps you... :fish: 8) :thumb: 8) :fish:


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## FireHorn123 (Apr 16, 2017)

Sand is def your best bet for all Africans. If you do peacockS they will sift through the sand and it's really cool to watch.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I did not find the pool filter sand from Lowe's and Home Depot were (a) available in the store, or (b) 100% silica. My local leslies does not have the silica any more, but other members seem to be able to obtain the 100% silica pool filter sand.

http://www.lesliespool.com/?utm_medium= ... gJ9E_D_BwE

Where do people in Canada get supplies for their hot tub filters?


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## FireHorn123 (Apr 16, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> I did not find the pool filter sand from Lowe's and Home Depot were (a) available in the store, or (b) 100% silica. My local leslies does not have the silica any more, but other members seem to be able to obtain the 100% silica pool filter sand.
> 
> http://www.lesliespool.com/?utm_medium= ... gJ9E_D_BwE
> 
> Where do people in Canada get supplies for their hot tub filters?


Walmart usually has it.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

I'm guessing I may have trouble finding it in the dead of winter in NY.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Remember...hot tubs.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Remember...hot tubs.


lol... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

I finally found pool filter sand at a hardware store. I'll be picking it up tonight, hoping to get it and the rocks in there this weekend. I've read this forums library and it states that cleaning the sand is not necessary. So just clarifying, I'm to set the rocks then then the sand and then fill it up? Nothing special that needs to be done.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I always wash everything, but if the PFS you are getting is any good, then you will find it mostly clean already.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> I always wash everything, but if the PFS you are getting is any good, then you will find it mostly clean already.


And how would I know if it's not? I can't imagine cleaning sand, I wouldn't know where to begin...coffee filter lol?


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## liegelr (Dec 11, 2008)

I just added a bunch of PFS to a new tank and it was pretty clean but there was a bit of fine-dust haze in the water because I didn't wash it (essentially washed it in the tank by rinsing/siphoning which worked pretty well in the end).

If you just put it in a 5 gallon bucket and fill it up with water, mix it around, then dump off the water a few times you get it clean pretty fast.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You know when it is clean when the water in the bucket above the sand is crystal clear.

Do small batches.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

So the Ace Hardware that said had it didn't and had to resume search but I did find it at another mom/pop hardware store. Every other place around here doesn't carry it. This one was buried in the basement. The guy asked me if I have an indoor pool, I obviously confused him.


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## NewkeeperRico (Feb 5, 2018)

I'm newb as well with African Cichlids. I was going to start a new thread but your thread was exactly what I was going to start, LOL. Were you able to find sand?


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

NewkeeperRico said:


> I'm newb as well with African Cichlids. I was going to start a new thread but your thread was exactly what I was going to start, LOL. Were you able to find sand?


I found it in small hardware store. It seems, HD, lowes, and others don't have it this time of year.


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

When I first switched from gravel to sand many years ago I heard pool filter sand was the way to go. I could not find it at the hardware-type stores but did find it at some pool supply places that did not sell retail much but sold me a couple bags anyways.

I liked it but when I needed more a few years later could not find it so went with regular sand from hardware-type stores - maybe it was play sand. To be honest, it was just as easy to clean and cheaper. Just a slightly different shade of tan is all. In the future I'd be fine with either type.


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## Lee79 (Nov 7, 2017)

Any *pool supply store* should have pool filter sand. It is not an uncommon item nor hard to find unless you are looking in the wrong place.
It is very simple to clean sand, pour about half a bag in a 5 gallon bucket and stir it around with the water hose on full blast until the water is clear-done.

Also, you should test your rocks to see if they are water soluble, as not all rocks are created equally. :thumb:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I know some local pool and spa supply stores have stopped carrying the silica...hazardous material. They sell recycled glass sand now which can cause chemistry problems in your tank.

I did try Quickcrete sand 20 grain once but it was terrible...mostly dust.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

OK, guys and gals, got the rocks and sand in, then filled her up. Pics below. I cleaned the sand but it's still a little cloudy so I'll let it run.

I'm really not happy with the way it looks, I think I'll need some fake plants.

Any pointers from here? I plan on re-reading the cycling section and doing that.


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Looks good to me. Every time we set up a rock work on a new tank we get that feeling that it should look better. It all depends on the kind of rocks we are able to get.
From what I see you did a good job with what you had in hand. Lots of hiding spaces for the fish for when they need it.

You can add a couple fake plants if you want. Have to adjust them firmly or else the fish are gonna lift them cause they really mess with the sand.
Get a couple discreet plants, dark green natural looking, Something that won't catch much attention but at the same time will give a nice touch to the tank.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

Roynato said:


> Looks good to me. Every time we set up a rock work on a new tank we get that feeling that it should look better. It all depends on the kind of rocks we are able to get.
> From what I see you did a good job with what you had in hand. Lots of hiding spaces for the fish for when they need it.
> 
> You can add a couple fake plants if you want. Have to adjust them firmly or else the fish are gonna lift them cause they really mess with the sand.
> Get a couple discreet plants, dark green natural looking, Something that won't catch much attention but at the same time will give a nice touch to the tank.


I did a few.

It's funny, I was looking into LED lights, but this old one looks pretty good.


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## NewkeeperRico (Feb 5, 2018)

Looks really good!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Your rock scape is somewhat suitable for mbuna, but I didn't see anything where you decided on which fish you're getting. I'd do some large rocks that have some decent height, then use your existing around the bases of those. Or stack higher. If you are looking to do an all male squad, then go very light on any decor.


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## The Morning (Nov 22, 2017)

Would like to see an update with pictures on how this turned out.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

The Morning said:


> Would like to see an update with pictures on how this turned out.


Here's how it looks now. Not much different.


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