# How Often Do You Completely Vacuum/Siphon The Tank?



## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

I'm wondering how often you all kind of do a whole tank maintenance vacuum?

I do like 15% W.Cs a week, and I use the siphon to get up the visible poo, leaves, and any food.

But my Nitrates are starting to climb a little bit, probably around 40 right now, and there's little specs of stuff starting to float around the filter.

I know that if I lifted up all my rock there's going to be a mess of poo/food. But in order to do get into the rock crevices I'm going to have to basically take out 90% of the rocks.

Do you do that with your tanks? If so, how often?
This would be the first time I've done a TOTAL cleaning (Under rocks ans such) in about 2 months.

Also, if I re-stack all the cichlids "homes" are they going to be thrown off at all?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Once per month I take a powerhead and blast in and around the rocks as best I can. A koralia works very well for me as it doesn't get the sand or gravel into it.

I then let the socks gather up the debris or then I do a large water change. 15% isn't enough on many systems in my experience. A once per month 50% to supplement the 15% ones would be worthwhile. :thumb:


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

Just for reference, this is what I'm talking rock wise.

Also, there's starting to get some algae on a few rocks...
And some of the hornwort have kind of a brownish film on the bristles.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

I am guessing that this tank is fairly new. The way you have the rocks set up looks awesome, and provides just the right sized caves for the size your cichlids are now. But have a look at pictures of other people's setups, and you'll find very few who have rocks set up like you. That's because they are a very efficient dirt trap, and they are an absolute PITA to clean - as you are finding out yourself 

Looking into my crystal ball, I predict that sooner or later you will decorate your tank in more maintenance friendly way. If it's any consolation to you, in my first mbuna tank I had hundreds of slate pieces stacked up all the way to the water surface. It took a whole day to take that cave structure apart and built a new one - and it never looked the same as in the previous built. :lol:

My current 240G has 10 removable rocks. 4 of those I have never taken out in more than 5 years of owning the tank. The other 6 come out maybe once per year when I need to net some fish. My 125G has one piece of wood and 3 rocks. Less can be more :thumb:


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

The tank has been up and running since like 11/5/2010
So about 2 months maybe.

I like the rock work as is, too. It looks more natural IMO.
But that really only took me 10 minutes to do, so theoretically I could just put some of the tank water in a rubbermaid bin and put the rocks in there, and start siphoning...

Like you said, it'd be a bit of a PITA, but what else do I have to do 8)

Here's some better pictures with my phone, also here's the "Floating stuff". They're not plant particles, I guess it's food maybe.
It's very little, and unnoticeable from a few feet away.

That other camera made the background look weird, and just overall crappy.

**** messy Cichlids


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Don't get me wrong, I really like the look of that tank. It's just easy to see that it isn't the easiest one to clean. Floating around debris it not necessarily bad for the fish, and can be pretty normal in a planted tank. Whether or not it bothers you only you can decide. For some reason I think it shows up more in photos than in real life - and even more in videos. Here is a video of my 240G with plenty of floating debris


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Looking into my crystal ball, I predict that sooner or later you will decorate your tank in more maintenance friendly way.


Frank is totally right. I've been there and done that too. My first tank set up the way it looked good to me, but now, I compromise and stack rocks with maintenance in mind.

Regarding frequency of tear down, totally depends on the tank inhabitants, at least in my case. My first tanganyikan tank I overstocked and now today it's still overstocked but with four year old adult fish. So, I pull all rocks, vacuum out all sand, replace rocks, and rinse and replace sand. It's getting to the point where I need to do this almost monthly, the detritus gets so bad. But, other tanks that I set up later I haven't had to ever tear down except for one maybe. Bigger, messy fish will force it more often.

My fish never had a problem at all with my changing rocks around. If they had a territory in the back right corner, then they just claimed whatever new rock I put there. But, I'm sure some of it may depend on the species.

Since you're only two months in, I wouldn't think you'd need to do this right now. Particularly if the fish are small as they seem to be in the pics. I would probably give it more time. I don't like to do major cleanings on newer setups. Sometimes it can do more harm than good. As long as you're not seeing black pockets of sand, then, I'd let it go longer. You might try maybe moving one rock and stirring the sand a bit. If you see black pockets and lots of bubbles released, then you do have a lot of organics decaying under there. If not, then replace it and forget it for now.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

Cool video... Love the Fronts.
But yeah, you can definitely see some flotation. Mine is much much less.

I looked around before I aquascaped and didn't see anything REALLY different from what I have.

So for easier cleaning would you just space the rocks out more? More like separate little islands?


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks "Prov".
I was just curious about an overall cleaning because the Nitrates have risen in the last few weeks to like 40PPM or so.

And with the fact that I'm doing reg. W.Cs the only thing I can think of is there's stuff under the rocks.

Because I'm really probably underfeeding as well.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Weekly. There is no substrate under my rocks. I use a turkey baster during siphoning to blast through the rockpiles and get substrate in tight corners.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I have a lot of rocks stacked similar to your tank. 
1. Weekly water change, siphon what's visible. 
2. Every other week I use a powerhead to blast the back wall and in amongst the rocks to one end, let the filters do their thing for 10 minutes or so, and let floating detritus fall back to the surface before vacuuming.
3. Usually once a month I'll remove all the rocks into a bucket and vacuum, mix the sand, let detritus sink, vacuum again, then replace the rocks and fill.
Your rising nitrates are letting you know that you're not performing large enough or frequent enough water changes and/or there's too much organic waste in the tank.
Try upping your water changes to around 30% per week and do a full vacuum once per month.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

I think sometime in the next few days I'm going to take out 1 side of the tank's rocks.
Do that side, then stack those rocks back up.

Then do the other side the next week.

As far as water changes go, you could be right, or there's too much waste in the tank. Because I'll do a 15% change, and it won't even dent the Nitrate levels.

Everything else in the tank is fine, 0s on Ammonia and Nitrite. PH is always around an 8.

Could not changing the Filter media contribute to high Nitrates?
I'm probably do for a carbon change.

I have an Aquaclear 110, with the Foam/Bio Rings/Carbon. I've never changed the foam.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

If the sponge in your AC is full of organics it could add to nitrates but I doubt by very much. Also, those sponges last forever, they only need cleaning in tank water in a bucket. And changed when they start falling apart.
15% weekly WC is on the low end for cichlid tanks, most people do between 30 and 50 percent, it's really a numbers game that's relative to your stocking, tank size, feeding habits and filtration. You just have to figure out what's the right amount for your situation by altering your amounts based on your test results after changes.


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## Will1983 (Dec 6, 2009)

i try to do about 40-50% a week. half of that is syphoning the gravel and the other half just dunking the bucket straight into the tank.

every other month i take out all my lumps of bog wood and clean them in the sink scrubbing off any algae with a nail brush.

also i usually empty my cannister filter about once a month and give all the media a squeezing out in old tank water.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I do like 15% W.Cs a week


I'd contribute your nitrate level to that. Bump up the amount to at least 30%, 40% is better.



> Could not changing the Filter media contribute to high Nitrates?
> I'm probably do for a carbon change.


Don't change it, rinse it in tank water. As said in a previous post, it's unlikely that it's driving up nitrates that much, but organic solids will eventually become nitrates. Now, if it doesn't need it, I'd leave it alone. Again, newer tank.



> I think sometime in the next few days I'm going to take out 1 side of the tank's rocks.
> Do that side, then stack those rocks back up.


I'd go easier than that, but I"m a worry wort when it comes to newer setups. You're talking about changing out media and moving rocks and vacuuming, etc. Be careful with doing too much right now trying to solve a problem you really don't have. A 30-40% water change is a quick, easy way to resolve this. It's only when nitrates climb faster than reasonable water changes can keep up with it that you have a problem.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Number 6 gave some good advice. If the nitrates are 40, a 50% change will reduce that to 20. Getting solids out of the tank before they can break down s a good way to reduce nitrate levels. by removing the source. Water changes that were sufficient when you started the tank tend to become insufficient as the tank matures and the fish grow.


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## smitty (May 7, 2004)

I never do a whole tank maintenance so to speak. I clean my tanks on the 10th, 20th, 30th. Every 10 days and I alternate with cleaning the filters in one cleaning and the gravel in the next.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

So basically having high Nitrates stresses fish out making them more susceptible to disease, right?
But is 40 terrible?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

It's not terrible no, but I think under 20 is generally what most strive for.


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## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

I personally do a 40% water change every week, plus I'm in there on "poop brigade" daily, sucking out poop and in the process doing a 2 gallon water change.

Mind you I'm filtering with an Eheim pro ii 2026, AQ110, and AQ50 on the 90 gallon...


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

Semi-Bump

So it looks like Monday or Tuesday I'm going to get started on cleaning the tank up a little bit.

Aside from "stress", is there anything else I should watch out for?
All I plan on doing is taking the rocks from one side, moving them to the other and siphoning.
Then putting those rocks back.
Then doing the other side a day or 2 later

As long as the rocks are in water, I should lose any good bacteria or anything right?
Maybe I'll get some new carbon, since I assume the tank is going to be a mess for a few days.

Probably going to do like a 50% WC, and then maybe re-arrange the rocks more clean-up-friendly.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Use your test kits to monitor ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The bacteria on your rocks will be fine if left in the tank or in a bucket of water. I actually use this type of opportunity to scrub the rocks so I would not go crazy keeping them wet unless it is painless. Some report a thorough vacuuming can disturb the bacteria in the *substrate*, I have not had this experience. You should not have a spike, and I've done this many times with no problems, but always a good idea to check.

If you do a larger water change, tank will clear faster because you will remove more of the stirred-up debris from under the rocks with the water. Any remaining debris will clear up within a few hours of turning the filters back on.

Carbon will only help with colors (yellow water) and smells which are not related to debris. I'd say not necessary.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

I vacuum the substrate around the rocks all the time, and haven't really seen any ill-effects bacteria wise.

I think I might just take a lot of the rocks out of the tank, put them in some tank water/tap water mix.
It would be easier.

Maybe tonight I'll pick up some Safestart or something too, just in case.

Time to get to work.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

Turns out it the tank wasn't AS bad as I imagined.

But there definitely were giant clumps of poo/food/debris under all the rocks.
I probably only took out like 15G
Hopefully getting all that out of the tank will help lower the Nitrates...

I tried to re-stack it in more of a maintenance friendly way, but I'm not sure if I did. I left the middle more open, and stacked higher on the sides.

The fish were very happy to have some rocks back in the tank, as they all turned white-like in the process. Now they're back to normal basically.

The Hornwort is out of control, always getting into the intake, not floating, etc.
I also thought it was supposed to "eat up" some Nitrates, but I'm not sure it's doing that at all.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

I guess I just need to keep doing WCs, because the Nitrate is still like 40+

Maybe at least now that I got all the stuff out from under the rocks the water changes will at least put a dent in it.

I guess I could do a 10 or 15% every other day and find out.

Would anything else be causing the Nitrates to be this high?
Bio-balls, plants, anything


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Definitely clean your filters (in a bacteria friendly way). And go ahead and do a 75% water change (matching parameters carefully)...why get all set up and put everything away every other day?


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> Definitely clean your filters (in a bacteria friendly way). And go ahead and do a 75% water change (matching parameters carefully)...why get all set up and put everything away every other day?


So just turn off the filter and just kind of clean/rinse it with tank water?
By matching parameters you just mean temp and PH?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

When I clean my filters (canisters) I disconnect the power and water hoses. Remove the top and media baskets and dump dirty water/debris. Swish tank water and dump to remove debris inside the casing. Slosh each non-sponge media basket up and down in a bucket of tank water. All sponges are repeatedly squeezed out in the tank water. Might need more than one bucket of tank water if they are really dirty. The only part I scrub with brushes is the impeller and it's surroundings and closures as well as water pump intake/outlets. Reassemble and restart. Once a year maybe I will flush out the hoses as well.

Same idea for an HOB.

If you treat your tap water with anything other than dechlor, and you do a big water change, then you would want to be sure the water you are replacing matches the water you remove (sans toxins) so you don't shock your fish. Matching temp and pH is good. But if you are also altering GH and KH you might want to think about those as well.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

Bit of an update, I did about a 50% WC Wednesday morning, and tested it later that night.

5PPM on Nitrate
0PPM on Nitrite

BUT
about a .5PPM on Ammonia.
Probably because my tap water has like a 1.5PPM (Which sucks).
So just to be safe I put in some Safe-Start.
We'll see what's going on tomorrow night.

Tank looks much cleaner, and I like that the rocks are stacked higher. Fish seem more active, and less cavey


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