# DIY Background basic questions



## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

I've been working on a DIY styrofoam background for a 150 gallons tank for the past week. It is my first and I think I did a big mistake... Just want some input from the pros about this!

I create some overhanging "rocks" at the upper third of my tank, as I want to save as much floor space as possible but still create visual barriers for fish. The problem is that I did these "rocks" by siliconing them perpendicularly to the background. My fear (now that I've spent half a gallon of drylock on it...) is that the silicon won't hold and the "rock" will be ripped from the rest of the background. It is about 12 inches long from front to back of the tank, 2 inches thick and 20 inches long from side to side, so the surface covered in silicon is 2x20. What do you think, would it be better to start again from scratch or try it anyway?

My second question, which is quite basic as well, is about the best timing to cut the background in different pieces to be able to put it in place. Before or after painting?


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

I have done that before, it should be fine just make sure you use a lot of silicone to hold it.

I like to cut before painting so I can color the cut as well, otherwise sometimes you can notice the cut.


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks mightyevil, I was hoping you would see my questions!

Finally I decided to remove the suspicious rocks, and they came out with difficulty but they came out nonetheless. I remove all the silicone, as well as a little bit of styrofoam, and I carved grooves and notches in both the background and the rock then siliconed them back together with a lot of silicone. Will see how it holds.

As for the paint, I found out that I could remove the paint in stripes if I took it where it joined with the styrofoam. It's pretty solid and hard now, but it feels like rubber when I pull on it. Is it normal and should I just eave it alone? I did 2 layers of black tinted drylock before I started to add the touches of gray and brown...


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## Somjura (Feb 24, 2010)

i think is enough time to dry and paint above black


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

kitana8 said:


> Thanks mightyevil, I was hoping you would see my questions!
> 
> Finally I decided to remove the suspicious rocks, and they came out with difficulty but they came out nonetheless. I remove all the silicone, as well as a little bit of styrofoam, and I carved grooves and notches in both the background and the rock then siliconed them back together with a lot of silicone. Will see how it holds.
> 
> As for the paint, I found out that I could remove the paint in stripes if I took it where it joined with the styrofoam. It's pretty solid and hard now, but it feels like rubber when I pull on it. Is it normal and should I just eave it alone? I did 2 layers of black tinted drylock before I started to add the touches of gray and brown...


No problem :thumb:

Good idea but I don't think it was necessary, at least you will have better peace of mind 

Not too sure what you mean about the paint. Latex paint sort of turns into a rubber like material so it is normal for it to do that. If you pull on it you may pull off more than you expected so be careful about that.


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

Sorry if I'm not clear with my description, but yeah it acts like some sort of rubber so I decided it would be wiser not to pull on it anymore! lol

Tonight I finished the paint, and I'm not really pleased with the result. I did not have a heat gun so it really looks like blue styro rectangles glued on a styro background. And i think I totally messed up when I added the brown, should have left it entirely grey and black. But here it is, it's my first and I still have loads of styrofoam left (less drylock though...) so please leave your comments and be honest! I think I'll start over from scratch.

Oh yeah, the depth doesn't appear on the pics but the perpendicular ledges are 3 to 12 inches long. This tank will be for Cyprichromis microlepidotus and Cyathopharynx furcifer, so I want the ledges to act as visual barriers for agression and also as a refugee for the fry, once I add some anubias.

Left side, the worst one, I had to reglue half the rocks:









Middle:









Right side, I like it more:


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## Malawi_Junkie (Nov 26, 2009)

Looks good. You can keep adding layers of drylok till you get your desired look. I started over 3 times and very glad I did, If you have enough styro I would try another using a heat gun or torch for added texture, then just use the one you like best.


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

Finally I teared it appart totally, the blue styrofoam did not hold on thr white styrofoam unless I made deep gashes in both panels and then, the silicon was so thick it didn't cure totally. Lesson learned.

However blue on blue I couldn't destroy it, so I kept some "rocks" that I liked particularly and started all over again. I bought a heat gun yesterday and tried it this morning.

I am a realy wussy when it comes to fire, putting things on fire, playing with fire, etc, so I tried the heat gun outdoors in the snow with a discarded piece of styro. I wanted to see the distance at which I had to work, the effects obtained and be safe if it caught on fire. To be honest, it is a total disappointment. Please tell me I'm a wussy and I can go closer to the styro, because at 2 inches distance, with the heat gun set at 450 C, it only changed color to a deeper blue, kinda more translucent. Oh yeah some corners rounded slightly, but that's about it. I can do better than that with an exacto.

So how do you use the heat gun, what do you do safety wise and are there pics somewhere of a before-and-after-heatgun? I'm thinking of trying it again indoors but first I have to do a huge clean up of the styro room...


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

I have never used the blue styrofoam for any of my projects because 1. I never saw anything on sale other than the white stuff and 2. I have heard that pink and blue styrofoam have problems attaching.

I am starting to think that these sheets of styrofoam that they use have different colors for different temperatures, just a thought I THOUGHT I would share.

As far as curing time with silicone, I forgot to mention that when applied thick, a week on curing time should be the minimum. I learned that with this last background since I kept it in doors this time around. If you can smell the silicone it is because it is still curing, only when the acid smell is completely gone can you trust for it to have cured enough.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

mightyevil said:


> I have never used the blue styrofoam for any of my projects because 1. I never saw anything on sale other than the white stuff and 2. I have heard that pink and blue styrofoam have problems attaching.
> 
> I am starting to think that these sheets of styrofoam that they use have different colors for different temperatures, just a thought I THOUGHT I would share.
> 
> As far as curing time with silicone, I forgot to mention that when applied thick, a week on curing time should be the minimum. I learned that with this last background since I kept it in doors this time around. If you can smell the silicone it is because it is still curing, only when the acid smell is completely gone can you trust for it to have cured enough.


Using nylon yarn or monofilament fishing line seems to have so many advantages over 1. worrying about the right kinds/colors of styrofoam to attach, 2. waiting for silicone to dry for a week or more 3. having reinforcement and more attachment points for the coating whether paint or drylok, or a concrete mixture.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

For an "unavailable" website, it sure seems to be reposting a whole bunch of duplicate entries. :lol:


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

mightyevil said:


> I have never used the blue styrofoam for any of my projects because 1. I never saw anything on sale other than the white stuff and 2. I have heard that pink and blue styrofoam have problems attaching.
> 
> I am starting to think that these sheets of styrofoam that they use have different colors for different temperatures, just a thought I THOUGHT I would share.
> 
> As far as curing time with silicone, I forgot to mention that when applied thick, a week on curing time should be the minimum. I learned that with this last background since I kept it in doors this time around. If you can smell the silicone it is because it is still curing, only when the acid smell is completely gone can you trust for it to have cured enough.


Using nylon yarn or monofilament fishing line seems to have so many advantages over 1. worrying about the right kinds/colors of styrofoam to attach, 2. waiting for silicone to dry for a week or more 3. having reinforcement and more attachment points for the coating whether paint or drylok, or a concrete mixture.


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## Malawi_Junkie (Nov 26, 2009)

I prefer the white styro and a torch. Styro wont catch on fire only the silicone between layers will catch on fire, if so just blow it out quickly.


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks for your replies, even the duplicates! lol

I've been carving all day long and yes if someday I need to do another background let me tell you it won't be in blue styrofoam! Very hard to carve, but tomorrow I'll do another try with the heat gun and see the results.

I don't understand the comment about the nylon yarn though...


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

kitana8 said:


> Thanks for your replies, even the duplicates! lol
> 
> I've been carving all day long and yes if someday I need to do another background let me tell you it won't be in blue styrofoam! Very hard to carve, but tomorrow I'll do another try with the heat gun and see the results.
> 
> I don't understand the comment about the nylon yarn though...


Instead of gluing the styrofoam together with silicone and then waiting a week before the next step, you wrap (where you can) or sew it together with nylon yarn, the same stuff killifish keepers make their spawning mops from. If you have ever seen stucco in progress, there is a grid under it to help it from peeling off the wall. The yarn creates that kind of attachment surface for the coating you choose, Drylok, cement, etc.

You can try this stuff. It works for model railroaders but I know nylon yarn is safe underwater.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/uhu_por_glue ... 3_prd1.htm

As to the blue/pink color of foam board. Here is one site saying that the color no longer means anything. Apparently it once indicated density.

http://www.barrule.com/Workshop/images/ ... /index.htm

Be very careful with heat around foam. The fumes are toxic. I burned out a ground nest of yellow jackets by igniting frisbee shaped pieces of foam and winging them at the nest. The fumes killed them even though I'd tried cans of hornet spray with no effect on the huge nest. It also killed the grass and after the second season of grass seed not taking, not even weeds, where the foam had burned, I dug up all the affected dirt a foot or more deep, put it in trash bags and replaced it. If the residue from heated styrofoam killed tough hornets and can kill grass and dandelions for two years, I am not keen to have it in my fish tank.


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

I have used burned styro since my first Background and never had a problem, I just dont think that burning it would bring issues :wink:


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

Mcdaphnia said:


> If the residue from heated styrofoam killed tough hornets and can kill grass and dandelions for two years, I am not keen to have it in my fish tank.


Or in my lungs...


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

mightyevil said:


> I have used burned styro since my first Background and never had a problem, I just dont think that burning it would bring issues :wink:


Yeah thanks. I tried it again today with the heat gun and it doesn't do anything to blue styro except changing its color for a more translucent blue and melting the little tiny bits that had to be removed anyway. No change in texture.

Next background will be in white styro though! But the good point is that I managed to make the place for the filter and heaters behind the background this time!

Oh another of my silly questions: does the back of the background has to be proected against direct contact with the heaters? I have 2 100W ebo-jagger for a 150gallons tank, they will be working a lot, but the suction cups don't work very well so I might have to plane for a way to keep them from touching the styro.


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

I don't think that the heaters will get hot enough to melt the styrofoam once submerged but just in case it might, you can always make the chamber for your filter big enough for both to fit.


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

Okay, so here is teh final background!

The tank is a 150 gallons, 72x18x27, and it is placed in my veterinary clinic in a room dedicated to euthanasias or explanations of difficult treatments or diagnosis. The water is not yet in the tank. This tank will house Cyprichromis microlepidotus, Cyathopharynx furcifer, and maybe (it's a big big maybe!) Tanganicodus irsacae, Alto. calvus black and Syno lucipinnis. The general idea I had in mind with this background was to let as much floor space available for the featherfins and create overhanging ledges that the Cyps and females Cyatho. could use to evade agression.

First of all, I am only 75% pleased with it. I know there are much better DIY backgrounds out there (especially yours mightyevil and Malawi Junkie), but I did it twice and did not have the patience to start all over again. The things I don't like about it are the artificial aspect of the "rocks", much too rectangular and in similar size to my taste, and the cuts that are not hidden. The color could have been a little bit paler with more brown but the more I added paint, the uglier it became.

Things I would do differently is not use blue styrofoam, I would go with white: it was very difficult to carve in the blue foam, and the heat gun would not smooth anything out only melt the thing (but I was told today that there are tools designed especially for working with blue styro that would have helped me immensely. **** I think I developped a carpal canal syndrome working on this thing...). Then I think I would use some sandpaper to soften up the edges, and I would plan a way to cut the background in pieces that would fit discreetly.

I also have a module of false rocks that is being built at the moment, and that will be entirely removable if need be. It will be close to the middle of the tank, on the left side.


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

Oops! Here are the pics...


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

Another view (i know the glass is dirty...)


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## Primate (Nov 25, 2009)

I think you're being too hard on yourself; it looks great!


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

I think it looks good too and I also think that you are being too hard on yourself. For being your first background or second if counting the restart. Once algae starts growing it will give it more depth and make it look more realistic, be patient. =D>


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## Malawi_Junkie (Nov 26, 2009)

=D> Nice work!


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## Superbowlbound (Dec 30, 2009)

Hey looking good! Im about to start mine too and am puzzled as to what to do with the heater! Firstly (like you), im a bit scared about putting the heater in such close contact with the styro, but more importantly i dont know how to make sure that the water around the heater is being circulated. *** heard stories where in the little chamer behind the tank, the temp was greater than infront of the background so the heater wasnt working well! How did you tackle this?


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

Superbowlbound said:


> Hey looking good! Im about to start mine too and am puzzled as to what to do with the heater! Firstly (like you), im a bit scared about putting the heater in such close contact with the styro, but more importantly i dont know how to make sure that the water around the heater is being circulated. I've heard stories where in the little chamer behind the tank, the temp was greater than infront of the background so the heater wasnt working well! How did you tackle this?


Thanks!

I will put a heater guard around my heater, and the heater will be in the same space as the filter intake.

I designed my filter intake to be at the very bottom of the recess, with the arrival of water from the tank being at the very top and in the middle (I don't want sand to get in there with all these featherfins making bowels lol). So basically the water is forced to travel through all the recess and go over the heaters before entering the filter intake, it is the place where water will circulate the most I think. Or at least I hope!


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

Sorry to bring back such an old topic, but I took some pics recently and since there is not much info on how well these backgrounds take on the years, I decided to post the new pics so you people would get an idea.

The background did very well for the first 30 months, the red algaes colonized all the background and the real rocks, creating a unity in looks that is really good-looking at first sight. But then I got careless on my feeding schedule (started skipping days, etc) and my Tanganicodus decided that the algae growing on the background was suddenly very tasty-looking. They went at it so energetically that they ripped off teh paint and even teh styrofoam in some spots, creating an ugly look. Well, it doesn't look so bad when I put white sand on the real rocks so it all fits together, but I wouldn't suggest using such a background in a tank with agressive algae eaters such as Tropheus, Petrochromis, gobies or even Plecos...


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## theboothsociety (Jan 3, 2012)

Very nice looking background and tank. Glad to see your update. *** heard this happening from fish trying to eat the algae. Do you think there is any way to prevent it from ripping off? Maybe extra layers of dry lock? Or maybe the way you layer it, using thin coats?


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

The background looks good.
If you want to repair the background, one option would be to drain the tank and touch-up with tinted Drylok. Once the Drylok is cured, you can seal it with Pond Armor. If you have another tank running, I would highly recommend the repair.

Theboothsociety, Pond Armor or a similar product will extend the longevity of a background.


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## theboothsociety (Jan 3, 2012)

*** looked into that pond armor stuff and found a lot of bad reviews, that its too thick. I was looking for a clear sealer I can coat after the tinted drylock.


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

For easier application, Pond Shield can be thinned with denatured alcohol; 10-40% depending on the desired coverage. 
It is thick but that's what makes it durable. I found it workable but it does take a little practice.


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