# Please look over my proposed Angel stocklist and advise me!



## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

I am trying to compile a stocklist for my empty 55 gallon standard tank. I want to know exactly what I want before I set it up to avoid having to swap things a ton around in the future. I am hoping to be able to keep angelfish, and to plan my other fish around them. My stocklist is loosely based around the 55 gallon cookie- cutter. I omitted the Rams because I have read and heard so much about how difficult they are to treat. I first want to double check that my water is okay for them. I have read and asked around, and the general consensus is yes, but the information is conflicting.
I had my water tested- straight out of the tap the ph is 7.2 and hardness is 150 ppm. I have an Aquaclear 500 (I think- itâ€™s the one that is for up to 120 gallons) and also a Tetra Whisper 60 that I can run as well if necessary. I also have a good heater/thermostat that is reliable. I have used the tank/equipment before (9 months or so ago) for Africans. I plan on gravel substrate with plenty of tall, live plants and some driftwood. With my Africans, I performed 25-30% waterchanges weekly, I plan to do this or 2x monthly changes with the tanks next set up. I would start the tank with a fishless cycle then add plants, and add the tetras first. I enjoy spending time on the tank and observing it, and enjoy feeding a varied diet- none of that is an issue. I do not want to have to perform waterchanges more than once a week regularly however.
Here are my questions- any input is welcome!
First- is my water okay for good Angel husbandry? I do not want to add anything to change the ph/hardness. I also want it to be good for the tankmates.
I really would love to have a group of 6 angels- however, I keep reading that most times some will pair off and they will need to be removed. I do not/will not have another tank to move them to and my LFS will not give me credit if I return them. I could settle for 2 angels but 6 would be what I really want. I really want a few larger fish to draw attention to the tank. I also really want 2 decent size schools of tetras- decent enough that they really show off their flashiness/color. I think 2 different tetras would look best, but I am concerned that it may be too much bioload? I donâ€™t want too small of schools either, so if I need to I can just have 1 species of happy flashy tetras. So- this first list would be my ideal- â€œdreamâ€


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

Hi Jen,

150ppm = 8-9 dH hardness, so that should be fine for any domestic angelfish to live, breed, and develop fry. IMO pH is less important, but 7.2 is great. I kept my angels between 80-82*, pH 7.0, hardness <1 dH

I would certainly get 6 angelfish to start with, even if you knew you were only going to keep a pair. A good pair or two will form and it is a good possibiity that you will have to thin out the unpaired fish. I just depends on the luck-of-the-draw with the personalities of the individual angels, some are aggressive while others are very laid back. IME the best breeding pairs result when females have an attitude and males are laid back.

I have experience breeding angelfish, but not keeping them in a community setting so I prefer to let someone else comment on your tankmate selection. Sounds like a nice tank, good luck :thumb:

Ed


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I agree with *ed* ... your water will be fine for domesticated angels. Indeed, I have bred them in harder water than yours when I lived in southern california.

Honestly in a 55 gallon I would only do one school of tetras, especially if you want to keep the water changes down. I would up the numbers though, I always do a group of 12 min. As for tetras, I would avoid the serpae tetras ... even in a larger group I had them nip angel fins. I would also avoid the rummynose, as they do better at higher temps than the angels prefer and are touchy, delicate. Red phantoms would be my first choice, they do better in the cooler water angels prefer (I always kept them at 76 when not trying to induce breeding). Glowlights might become lunch as the angels get larger, and so might the black neons (less likely). Rosy and lemons would also be good choices.

A group of six would be fine, but as you said you might have troubles if they pair off. There isn't much you can do to prevent this, though keeping the temp at 76 will help lower chances that they will breed. Mine never bred until I bumped the temp up to 78-80 to simulate the dry season. Just a thought.

I can't help with color clashing as I only like the silver angels, aka the wild striped coloration.

Good luck, it was angels that first got me into fishkeeping in general and cichlids in particular.


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## apistomaster (Jun 22, 2006)

As was already pointed out, the Serpae Tetras are bad fin nippers. They are as close to being miniature Piranhas as one can find.

Red Phantoms, as lovely as they are, prefer cooler water than most tropical fish. 72 to 75 is their happy zone. They will not do as well in the 80* plus range.

6 Angels in a 55 gal does work but the system begins to break down when they begin to pair off in 8 to 12 months, depending up how large they are when you buy them. You need to have a plan for the pairs. It is possible to let all 6 including the pairs work things out amongst themselves but the may become so protective of their territories that it may be hard for any of the Tetras to find any safe havens.


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## Morcs (Jun 1, 2009)

6 angels is good to start, but as soon as a pair forms, ditch the rest.

If you plan on breeding, I wouldnt go with tetras. They are egg eaters. a handful of corys and a pair of bolivian rams works well - they all hang out on the bottom, giving the middle and the upper parts of the tank for my angel pair.

Mine are quite comfortable with breeding - my water conditions are ph 6.8 and kh at 4 deg.


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Hmmm...I have absolutely NO desire to breed...zilch. Actually, it is undesirable, because then I would have to find something to do with the fry, as I only have the one tank for them. Hence the problem with 6- so maybe I should just get a pair? My reason for wanting 6 is not for breeding, just because I want several "larger" fish, and because I read that Angels are usually happiest schooling together.

Keeping the temperature in the low 70's is fine with me. Red phantoms are my favorite anyway, and as I said I don't want the Angels breeding. It probably doesn't matter anyway- I really didn't want my Africans breeding as I was overstocked to the max to prevent aggression- everything I read and everyone I spoke to said that if I didn't remove the holding females or the fry and just left them in the tank with all the other fish then I probably wouldn't have any survivors- well a grand total of maybe 1-2 months after getting the Africans I had a few decent-sized fry swmming in open water, more hiding, and several females holding. Just my luck. Of course, if I had wanted to breed I would never have seen a baby. Go figure!

If I only have the 2 Angels, is there a way to add a couple of "bigger" fish? I love the Rams, a lot reallly. I scratched them off because I have been told over and over that they are just way too fragile and won't survive. Should I just try them anyway, or is there another colorful fish with a bit more length to it than the tetras?

Thanks for all of the input, I really appreciate it!

P.S.- Does the list (angels, poss rams, 1 school of 12 tetras, corys, ottos) look okay as far as bio-load goes?)

Edit to add- I looked again at the profile of the Bolivians, and they might do okay with my water params and in that temp- maybe this setup

2 Angels (black stirped)
5 Bolivian Rams
12 Tetras
5 Cory Cats


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## Morcs (Jun 1, 2009)

JenTN said:


> Hmmm...I have absolutely NO desire to breed...zilch. Actually, it is undesirable, because then I would have to find something to do with the fry, as I only have the one tank for them. Hence the problem with 6- so maybe I should just get a pair? My reason for wanting 6 is not for breeding, just because I want several "larger" fish, and because I read that Angels are usually happiest schooling together.
> 
> Keeping the temperature in the low 70's is fine with me. Red phantoms are my favorite anyway, and as I said I don't want the Angels breeding. It probably doesn't matter anyway- I really didn't want my Africans breeding as I was overstocked to the max to prevent aggression- everything I read and everyone I spoke to said that if I didn't remove the holding females or the fry and just left them in the tank with all the other fish then I probably wouldn't have any survivors- well a grand total of maybe 1-2 months after getting the Africans I had a few decent-sized fry swmming in open water, more hiding, and several females holding. Just my luck. Of course, if I had wanted to breed I would never have seen a baby. Go figure!
> 
> ...


With 6 Angels, the chances of having a pair form, and breeding, and the aggression that goes with that is quite high, but a 55G is quite big, so if well planted should be fine.

Bolivans are fine. I have two, and they have claimed half the bottom of the tank each, they are just so cute, especially when they confront each other. I wouldnt say fragile, so long as there is no-one else to give them stick and invading their territory.

Stock list and bioload looks fine. I would still suggest starting with 6 angels and getting a pair to form - id say you want this  2 angels as a pair as far nicer than 2 random angels - the behaviour is most interesting. And providing you have the corys and tetras (id add a BN too) then if they spawn, the eggs wont survive anyway (i know this)!


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

I will start with 6 since the general concensus is that the behavior is better! I may have hooked my sister into the hobby, so by then, I may be giving her a pair, haha.

I have eco complete gravel in the tank and the tank is Â½ full. I am getting filter media today and live plants tomorrow. Amazon swords and not sure what else. Turns out I cannot use the Aquaclear filter, so the Tetra whisper will have to do. Here is the tentative stocklist:

6 Angles (to eventually get a pair)
15 Red Phantom Tetras
5 Bolivian Rams
5 Cory Catfish
Bristlenose Pleco
I plan on getting 1 or 2 pieces of driftwood. Will I need any larger rocks as well?
Thanks for all of the help!


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Otos really don't add anything significant to the bioload, so you can certainly have them with no difficulty. And it's not "if" you have algae, but "when"! :wink:

A planted angel tank is quite lovely (it's what I have.) I'd recommend swords and vals, plus crypts, java fern and anubias. I do have pressurized C02, though, to try and avoid algae as much as possible. (I have 3 wpg lighting.)

I have rummynoses with my angels with no problem and like them quite a lot. I keep my temp at 78.

I wouldn't add "bigger fish" to the angels. They'll get plenty big enough eventually!

Angels really don't school, but do pair up (and squabble, too). Two pairs might be OK in your set-up. Start with six, wait for two to pair up and remove the other two. You can give them back to the LFS (if they won't give you credit) or post them on Craig's list for sale.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

If doing a planted tank, I'd take a group of six Oto's over a bristlenose pleco anyday. The six will out eat the bristlenose in algae and produce only 1/10 of the waste. Plus my bristlenose was like a bull in a china shop with stem plants.

You won't need any larger rocks, but the bolivians would appreciate some smaller smooth river rocks scattered about.


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## star rider (Mar 20, 2006)

IME, 
otocinclus and angels are not a good mix.

mine ate my oto's in 3 different set ups.

I'd stick to the BN


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Cycle is started!

Tank is full, 76 degrees

10 plants are in there at the moment- more to come.

Ammonia reading 1 ppm @ 0630

Substrate is Eco-complete

A gentleman at my LFS yesterday told me that the Red Phantom Tetras do not do well at 76F- they prefer cooler temps- so I may just end up going with the Lemon Tetras. Has anyone had experience with this? I will say Lemons would be easier as I seem to be able to always find them here and have not found Red Phantoms here. Are there any Tetras similar to Red Phantoms that I could use?

I will try the ottos, I prefer them to the bn plecos personally- if they don't work I will go with the bn.

I am satisfied with the Ram's- the more I see them, the more I think I will enjoy a group of 5 with my Angels  Bolivian seems to be the route to go in the tank.

So I should have the 2 "centerpiece" fish- the Angelfish- a largeish school of tetras (15)- mid- to-bottom dwelling group of Bolivians - group of bottom dwelling Corys- and the Ottos

I think that will turn out nicely


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## star rider (Mar 20, 2006)

Bolivian Rams are a good match for angels. I keep some in my Angel tanks.

My preference is Black neons with angles tho some may beg to differ.

keep an eye on the Oto Angle mix.. the oto defense mechanism is what I'd be more concerned with(sticks spines out from the gill plate)

as mentioned they have worked for some..but my Angels Tend to eat anything they THINK they can fit in their mouths :wink:

I also prefer a bit warmer temp for angels opting for 78-82 f.


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

I like the Black Neons, however I am looking for a Tetra with some good color to add to the tank.

The 76F is to keep breeding activity to a minimum, as per advice above!

I will keep an eye on the ottos and if they are picked on they will be moved then


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I have black phantom tetras (females are reddish) and they are very attractive and in my tank at 78 degrees with no issues, so that is an option.

I also have pristella tetras, which are similar shaped and also very attractive, so that is another option.

Tetras will eat angel eggs, so I don't think you need to lower the temp just to prevent breeding of the angels. I can't speak to what the Bolivians will do, as I don't keep them. If they start breeding, though, are they going to terrorize the cories?


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## ktluvsfish (Jan 13, 2008)

It sounds like you have gotten a lot of good advice already. I have experience keeping angels in a community setting, so I thought I would chime in and give my two cents 

Depending on your angels, (each fish is different), you may be able to keep two pairs in a 4 foot tank. I had two pairs and had no problem with aggression. Just make sure that they have lots of plants to break up the territories a bit 

Bolivian rams are great tankmates. I would also recommend any of the following:
Keyhole cichlids
Curviceps Cichlids
A. Hongsloi
Cockatoo Cichlids
A. Borelli
And pretty much any other apistogramma species (the three above just happen to be favorites of min).

I kept BN plecos with my angels. I think they are more interesting than ottos, especially the long fin variety.

You won't have to worry about babies if you don't want them, because they will get eaten in a community setting.

Good luck with your tank, and don't forget to show us pics when you have some


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

I really seem stuck on the Tetra issue..why oh why?

I honestly really wanted Cardinals. I find them most attractive and my kids just adore them. I read mixed reviews on them. I'm toying around with the idea of getting a shcool of them and letting them grow and then adding juv Angels- then maybe the Angels couldn't fit them in their mouth. But I don't want them to try to eat them, because they would get stressed and not show proper color/behavior.

I want a really pretty colorful schooling fish that is native to South America- is that too much to ask, lol? School size of 15.

Terrible to get this hung up on fish.

I'm also toying with the idea of scrapping the Cory Cats. They aren't my favorites, they don't have much color, and I already will have the Rams on the bottom. That would give me less bio-load.

What do you guys think?


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Rummynoses are a great tetra that is a bit bigger than neons and not likely to be dinner. They have bright red noses and black and white tails. I have some in with my very large angels with no trouble.

I personally adore cories and wouldn't have a tank without them. Look at the sterbai for a very attractive cories (orange fins) or pandas . . .


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

My LFS has some really healthy looking rummynose so those are an option...I have read that they can be pretty poor quality, but the ones I was looking at yesterday had extremely bright red noses.

I think I am making this much more difficult than it should be. Most people don't put this much effort into which puppy they will choose. I tend to obsess, especially when I have time on my hands and an empty tank.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Rummynoses can be difficult to acclimate. So I always let my LFS have them for a few weeks before I take them home. That way, the weaker ones have died and the rest have had a "rest" before another relocation. Then do the acclimation very slowly.

Once in your tank and acclimated I don't think they are any less hardy than other tetras. I have them in both planted tanks and don't think I've had more than one out of 10-12 lost. Their noses will stay nice and red when water quality is good. If their noses start to fade (once they are established in your tank) it's an indicator of problems and you need to pay attention. In that way, they are useful for monitoring the health of a tank ...


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi jen... Guess you decided on angels rather than discus.. sounds like that's more your style of tank right now anyhow.
I had rummys with my adult koi angels with no issues whatsoever. I do suggest that if you are getting rummys look for the largest and if you have a qt tank put the school of them in there first so they can acclimate to you and your water etc before putting them in with the angels.. If you haven't put the angels in the tank yet, then just leave it for the rummys for a week or 2 before adding the angels.. Since angels are cichlids there of course is no guarantee, but while my angels did eat the guppies and fry, they never ate a rummy...
I would wait on the cories til you see how you like the look of the bolivians and angels and rummys and then go from there. Just take it slow and remember everyone is gonna grow especially the angels (rather quickly), the bolivians slowly. You may find the tank fills up pretty quickly... Good luck with it. Sue


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Yes I think Angels will be the best option for me  The rummynose have been at my LFS for at least 2 weeks now so that is good. That is good advice to see how it looks- my last tank was Mbuna & I learned the hard way that I had to stock quickly because of aggression. This will be different.. Plus my LFS is always out of rams so I have nevet seen them in person...that will make a difference. Cycle seems to be coming along well- I checked twice & amonia is at zero nitrites are at .1 ppm- is that possible already? I worry that my kit (liquid test kit) is wrong- it seems too fast. Discusqueen I love your dogs btw- 2 of my favorite breeds!


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi jen... My "kids" thank you  .. Bailey is a female fawn colored dobbie 4 years old and Red Ryder is an 8 year old male standard poodle.. They love to pose for pics :lol: :lol: . Take care Sue


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Well, Dobermans are hands-down my favorite breed! I can't wait until I can get a Dobe puppy! Your babies are beautiful and very photogenic  Love the name Red Ryder, btw that is awesome :lol:

Okay, back on topic: I'm wishy-washy on the Angels because they are not colorful. Is there a different pair of colorful, similiar sized South Americans that I could use instead? Or 2 different single fish (if that makes sense at all, lol) Basically, 2 centerpiece fish?

So I could have 2 large fish, and the school of tetras, then 5 Bolivian Rams?

Would a pair of Blue Acaras or 1 Blue Acara and 1 Angelfish work? Or would the Blue Acara(s) terrorize anthing on my stocklist??


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi again... RedRyder is a red standard poodle so we just couldn't name him anything else.. :lol: :lol: 
Now back to your tank..
As to colorful angels... have you seen the koi angels?? Lots of orange and black on them??? Just google or go to angelsplus site..
Your wanting to keep plants is gonna limit your stocking options.. a lot of the larger colorful fish like sevs will demolish most plants... never had acaras so can't help there but there are several threads on them..
Sounds like you need to go to a very well stocked fish store and just stare at things for awhile so you can decide what you want in the tank.. Also keep in mind that a lot of fish don't colorup til they are semi adults almost... If you don't care if it's SA... rainbow fish are beautiful and colorful... they will also be fine with plants.. I mixed rainbows and bolivians at one point and it was fine..
Hang in there.. I'm sure you will come up with a fantastic tank. Sue


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

hehe...I have stared at fish a ton...but I think 1/2 my problem is they don't always have the fish I want...like the bolivians, I have never seen them.

I am afraid the Bolivians would clash with the Koi Angelfish.

I think I am making myself un poco loco over this, haha.

I also thought about this:

2 Angels
5 Bolivians
12 Tetras
3 Keholes


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I personally wouldn't do two SA dwarfs in one tank -- so either the keyholes or the bolivians, but not both IMHO.

BTW, one LFS near me lists Bolivians as ruby rams, so you might see if they have them listed as something other than Bolivian.

Remember that color isn't the only criteria. Personality is really important to me. Angels will notice you outside of their tank and pay attention to you, which I like. Same with blue rams and apistos in my experience. The rummynose I do love for their flashes of color, but it's the cichlids and the cories that have the personality.


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Ahh, the personality  My 7-year-old daughter keeps putting her foot down about the Angelfish- she says the Discus and other fish don't "swim the same way" and have the same behavior she likes as the Angels- so I guess the Angels will have to stay, haha.

I think I'm paranoid that I will make my final choices and then will regret something!

They have spots for the Rams but they are always empty.

I guess I am just going to have to wait and see how it goes. I think I'm just getting impatient. opcorn:

Do you guys think it's too early to have nitrites, or is that right??


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

if i can chime in, i will vouch for keyholes. they are very cool and their color will not really clash at all. their color is actually amazing in a subtle way. tan with nice dark black markings and the kicker, the amazing blue trim on the fins. also, the way they camoflauge when theyre scared or hiding is very cool.

they stick mostly to the bottom and have thought many times how i would definetely love to have mine with angels. they are a great fish and fun to watch.


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

I bought the most beautiful mated pair of veiltails today! I am so happy. I tested my water again & lfs tested it & it was good. They are so pretty- I've admired them for a couple of weeks & asked today & they are a pair- saves me trouble! They are around 4" Id guess.


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

The lady I always deal w/ at my LFS is trying to talk me into German Blue Rams instead of Bolivians :lol: as if I'm not making it hard enough on myself!! She personally likes the Germans

If I go with them, I'd need to (very slowly of course) up the temp (not a big deal since I'm starting with 2 angels instad of 6) and I would go with the Rummynose Tetras. If I go with Bolivians, I will go with the Lemon Tetras.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I would go with the bolivians myself, they fit the temp requires of angels much better than the germans do. I have never had good luck with blue rams until the temp hit 84. Same with rummynose. Sounds like a good excuse to get a 29 gallon.


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

dwarfpike said:


> I would go with the bolivians myself, they fit the temp requires of angels much better than the germans do. I have never had good looke with blue rams until the temp hit 84. Same with rummynose. *Sounds like a good excuse to get a 29 gallon*.


Haha-SHAME on you! I'm already trying to live vicariously through my sister- she's pondering getting a tank now- I've already worked out her Asian setup- it started with "oh I like those Rainbowfish".

Yeah, crankin up the temperature is not my ideal scenario. I am lazy, and the water evaporates so quickly  I sort of worried about the rummynose anyway, as my pair are adults, and I wonder about them eating small rummynose?

Looks like it will be the lemos...plus I like the Panda Corydoras the best, and they prefer the cooler temperatures as well.

Maybe my daugher might like a 29 gallon in her bedroom for Christmas....BAD MOTHER!!!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I have never seen an angel take an adult rummynose, but I have been told it happens. So smaller ones might be in trouble with adult angels.

Panda cories are one of the few cories that can not only handle the high temps, but do well enough to breed ... even at discus/ram temps.


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Well you are supposed to say that it would not work, get the Germans out of your head and stick with the Bolivians!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I thought I did in a previous post? :lol: But just in case: Get the germans out of your head and stick with the bolivians!!


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

dwarfpike said:


> I thought I did in a previous post? :lol: But just in case: Get the germans out of your head and stick with the bolivians!!


 :thumb: I have to be told lots of times- I'm hard-headed- just ask my ex-husband.... :fish:


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

Aw whats wrong with germans? What makes bolivians so much better? Im torn what i want in my tank... German, bolivian, gold or electric blue


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

There is nothing wrong with blue rams, it's just that they prefer (and are much hardier) in much higher temps than what the angels will like. So in her tank, the bolivians would be a better choice. Not many fish and fewer plants due well in the temp range blue rams prefer, so it's better to build a tank around them as opposed to fitting them in (except for a disucs tank, one of the fish that enjoy those higher temps as well).


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

yes thank you. the whole tank is revolving around the angels....who would like me to believe they are constantly starving lol


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi again Jen
Sounds like the tank is coming together.. I also recommend the bolivians.. and a group of them..
Every time I try the blues they are great for a month or so and then they die.. It is very hard to find good quality ones unless you get them direct from a local breeder.. They are much more colorful than the bolivians but not as hardy usually.. I've had great luck with bolivians but sadly not the blues.. and as most of you know, I've raised discus etc so I'm used to sensitive fish.. I just think the quality is harder to come by around here. 
The rummys should be fine with the angels as will the lemons..
Are you going with panda cories instead of the bolivians?? 
I've had keyholes and love them... but they can be shy and altho great fish not very colorful.. Since you wanted some color, I think the angel/bolivian/tetra combo or angel/cory/tetra combo would be a more interesting tank unless you really like the look of the keyholes.. Also have you looked at the sterbai cories...
How about some pics. opcorn: ... Sue


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

i plan on having 5 bolivians & 5 cories...will that be ok? pics should be coming tomorrow!! im not sure about my aquascaping tho....everyone elses seems so much better!


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Alright, keep in mind that these were taken with a cell phone- I have to find the cord for my camera. A couple of the fish pics were taken when the fish were still a bit skittish.

I have a black background to put up, and I still need to add ddriftwood and have small plants ordered for the foreground.

Go easy on me, I'm not so great at aquascaping- I'm paranoid about my live planting ability.


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi jen. You are off to a good start :thumb: .. That's a really nice pair of what I think are halfblacks. Once you get the background up that's gonna make a big difference too. Keeep posting as you add more fish etc... I would decide which you want most the bolivians or the cories and then add those so you can see if that fills up the bottom space enough for you before adding the other species... but that's just me.. Both have great personalities in groups..It's gonna be a great looking tank once you are done.. Sue


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

pretty fish


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Thanks!

The pictures really don't do them justice! They are halfblacks I believe. They really are absolutely beautiful, I think. I snatched em up as soon as I could, hehe.

I am definitely starting with the Bolivians. If I have room on the bottom, then I will add Cories.

Now If someone could just tell me where to find some nice wild-caught Bolivians I'd be golden opcorn: preferably close to TN so I don't have to pay out the wazoo for shipping....


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

leopartner123 said:


> pretty fish


Thank you!


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Well someone put the Barry White on....there are eggs all over my plants lol.


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

Hello all i have a question about angels.

All of mine die and it appears that they have red on their gill plates as if they were attacked or somthing and they just lay on their sides and die what is with it??


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## star rider (Mar 20, 2006)

jack lover.. have you tried posting your own question ins a thread?
when you do please include all pertinent info
tank size
how long it has been set up
has it been cycled?
water parameters (NH3(ammonia) NO2(nitrite) NO3(Nitrate)
are you using a liquid test kit

etc.

red gill is often is a Sx of toxins in the tank (NH3,NO2)


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

WTF is NH3 in alaska all the tests we have are ammonia nitrite and nitrate My tank WAS a 55g with 2 emperor 400 bio weels with a AC50 and weekly 45% water changes : Plants Assorted hygrolifia, Sword plants, Hornwort, money wort, cherry hedge, anubia on driftwood, assorted plants well planted co2 tank Ammonia idk never tested but i think it would be good with just my 2 angels and all my filters and water change rutine. nitrate is like 15 ppm and nitrite idk pH in that tank was 7.5 till i swiched to well now is about 8.5.

My angels are dead now tho and makes me not want to try them again im currently doing assorted tetras and corydoras in that tank so cant add angels but do have a empty 29g.


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## cholly2 (May 17, 2008)

* Hi Jan. always buy angels bred in similar h20 parameters. also, check the ph where U buy from & temp. If its say 6.5 and U drop em in 7.5 u;ll kill them . Thats even too much chge to do overnite acclimating. U don't want to do more than .2 -.3 ph change when U bring them home. I got all mine from a store in my area same h20 chemistry as mine. Man they are doing great!! My smallest angel from mid June is HUGE already. was a dime in June now up to a silver dollar or more. NO Exaggeration!!! Just cichlid flakes, small cichlid pellets, goldfish flakes. variety. seems to help. Chuck *


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

My lfs has orange von rios tetras ...thinking about them they are really pretty.


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Okay......

Getting ready to add tetras soon!!

I really took a shine to the little orange guys! They will go in next!

Sooo...as far as bioload goes...can I get away with...

the Angel pair
5 Bolivians
12 Flame Tetras (or Von Rios) - from what I understand, they realistically usually don't even get to 1.5 inches in captivity
12 Columbian Blue Flame Tetras
Bristlenose Pleco

Is that too many fish in the 55? I really would like 2 schools of Tetras, and I think the flames/blue flames would look really nice with the other fish. I took out the corys because I can leave the bottom for the Rams.

I can change the water once a week if needed...

And


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I've had von rios before and liked them a lot. They do stay small, but are wide-bodied enough that they should not be angel food. 12 would be great. I'm not familiar with the other tetra you've mentioned. I don't think I'd go with a second tetra school with the 5 Bolivians and the two angels, myself . . .


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi Jen... Sounds good so far. I agree tho.. only one large school of tetras.. it just makes more of a statement than 2 separate schools... Try the orange guys first and see how you feel.
I'm not sure what you mean by Columbian blue flame tetras.. I've had columbian tetras... they are pretty much silver with red and blue on the fins etc.. If those are the ones you mean, mine got fairly large and nippy.. wouldn't want them with your angels.. but sometimes different places name different tetras with the same names... do you have a picture.. or you could google Columbian tetras and see if that is what you are looking at. I had a school of 8 and they were very fast and nippy in a 72 gallon bow.. not as bad as serape (sp) but I wouldn't trust mine with angels.. Having any luck finding the bolivians??
Would love to see more pics... HTH Sue


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

They are blue iridescent with red fins.

I have found some Bolivians in an unexpected way. I am super excited, to say the least  I have pictures emailed but I don't know if it's okay to share them on here, they're not my pictures. They are very very pretty :thumb:


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## mok3t (Nov 28, 2008)

Its fine to post other peoples pictures, just dont try to pass them off as your own :thumb:


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Well after spawning they had some nasty fighting. I added 5 flame (von rios) tetras earlier than I wanted to divert attention. The male took a nasty blow to the mouth. They are swimming together again now. I'm keepimg an eye on his mouth especially since its a new tank-hes eating fine but if he acts odd or it looks infected ill set up a hospital tank for . Im thrilled with the tetras- after a few hours home they colored up to a beautiful tangerine/reddish color. I never found a tetra that I just loved that could work with them so Im glad I found them. Im scrapping the idea of 2 tetras and will prob work up to 15 flames.


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## JenTN (Jan 11, 2008)

Hello all,

They spawned again!  From what I have read, I thought it would be weeks in between. I took some pictures and posted them in the Photography section.


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