# FIrst Canister - outtake placement



## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Hello there fellow fish lovers.

Tomorrow I'm going to be setting up my first canister filter, and although I have been watching as many guides as I can, there are always some doubts that remain. One of them is the placement of the outflow flute.

I was thinking about placing it just a little bit below water level, with the holes pointing a little bit to the surface so I create a nice water movement in the surface.
Is that ok? Will there be a problem when I do my water changes? Cause then the water level is going to drop and the outtake flute is going to be entirely above water level.
If that happens can the canister start choking like it happens with Hang on Back filters when you lower the water level too much?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Congrats on getting a canister filter!! Which brand and model are you buying?

I have my spray bars set up similar to what you are planning to do and it works well for me. You can keep the filter running and there should not be a problem with the spray bar or the canister filter when doing water changes as long as you keep the intake below the water level. What you will experience is water splashing from the spray bar when you lower the aquarium water level; you can either rotate the spray bar downward or turn the canister filter off during the water change.

Just be sure you remember to plug the canister filter in to power source when you are done with the water change. I leave the power cord plug sticking out of the stand to remind me to plug it back in when I'm done.


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Deeda said:


> Congrats on getting a canister filter!! Which brand and model are you buying?
> 
> I have my spray bars set up similar to what you are planning to do and it works well for me. You can keep the filter running and there should not be a problem with the spray bar or the canister filter when doing water changes as long as you keep the intake below the water level. What you will experience is water splashing from the spray bar when you lower the aquarium water level; you can either rotate the spray bar downward or turn the canister filter off during the water change.
> 
> Just be sure you remember to plug the canister filter in to power source when you are done with the water change. I leave the power cord plug sticking out of the stand to remind me to plug it back in when I'm done.


Thank you Deeda for your quick response. I bought a SunSun 402a.

I'm gonna try and set it up like that tomorrow. If something goes wrong or I have any more doubts I'll let you know.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

You are very welcome!!

I've never owned that brand filter but the basic set up should be similar among different brands. Just be sure to follow the included instructions, check you have all the parts and if needed, unwrap and rinse any media in water prior to installing it in the correct position in the filter.

When I set up my 1st canister, I decided where I wanted to place the canister in the stand and physically put the filter in the stand and then placed the intake and output piping inside the tank and hanging on the rim to determine how long the hoses needed to be before cutting them to the proper length. This is easier to do on a tank that has no water in it but can be done with a tank with water in it. You want enough hose length to reach the canister easily but not too much to avoid sags or loops of hose.


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## JRW81 (Mar 14, 2017)

I unplug all my sunsuns during water changes because once the water level drops a few inches they start to suck in air. There's a small opening a few inches from the top of the intake which allows it to pull in air. Also they won't prime until the water level is above the opening


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Another argument to buy Rena Filstar filters. I also turn off the equipment. But they prime themselves when empty after a cleaning, and no need for priming at all after they have been turned off, just flip the power back on and they resume.


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Another question:

I am starting to set it up now, and I have a doubt about the hoses. I was measuring the distance between where the canister top is going to be and where the hoses are going to be in the tank, and theres about 2 feet of hose more than I need. 
Should I leave it? Will it make a difference in the functionality of the filter? The hose will have a swirl or two to fit there whole, if you know what I mean (cant really fin the words in english to explain it).
Can that be a problem? Do you guys cut it so its a straight (as possible) line between filter and tank?


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Man the instructions on this thing are practically none.

I have it set up now, everything is connected except the power plug. I am now pumping that prime button non stop and I really can't tell when its enough...
I see the water going back and forth in the hoses. 
Do I plug the power on right now as I pump the prime button or do I need to wait till I pump that thing more till I see any air in the hoses?


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Update:

I got it up and running right now, and I don't see or hear anymore air coming out on the hoses.

I am not very happy with the noise though, cause when I approach it I can hear the motor, more than I do on my HOB filter. And also I thought the water flow would be stronger... I gotta put my fingers in the flute to feel it, or get it really close to the water level to see the movement.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Both of those things are exactly opposite of what should happen. Are you able to get help from the manufacturer?


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Both of those things are exactly opposite of what should happen. Are you able to get help from the manufacturer?


I can contact the store I got it from, but from my previous contacts with them, it seems they know as much as I do.
The filter is still on warranty so if I have to I can send it back to them but I really wish I could do something about it without having to do that.

Tomorrow I can take a better look and lift up my spray bar above water to get a better look at the flow rate, and I can do a short video and show it to you guys. Maybe its normal, I don't know.

The noise thing, I read some people that were able to solve it by lubing the impeller with vaseline. I could try that I guess.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Roynato, sorry I was out all day!

You want the hoses long enough so they don't put any strain on the filter connections or the parts going into the aquarium. You will want the hoses to go upwards from the canister filter lid to the connections at the top rim of the tank. You don't want any slack, droops or loops in the hoses at all. I think when you said a swirl or two, you meant a loop where the hose curls around in a circle.

I have heard the instructions are very poor and I have not found any online.

It is possible there is still some air trapped in the filter. What you can do is unplug the filter from the power source and wait a few minutes. Plug it back in and see if more air leaves the output or spray bar.

Can you post a pic or photo of how the hoses look from the filter to the aquarium? Even a video with sound may be helpful in troubleshooting the noise problem.

I wouldn't lube the impeller with Vaseline at this time. I know it is often suggested but the actual impeller shouldn't be contacting any surfaces except for where the impeller shaft ends are held in position in the impeller cavity.


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## clubtc05 (Jan 24, 2018)

The vaseline will definitely help with the noise, it helped on my AC70 but I forgot to put some on my Penn Plax Cascade 1000 when I got it and it was noisy but then after 2 days it went really quiet, quieter than the AC70 and haven't put vasoline on the canister yet and its been about 2 weeks now.


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Deeda said:


> Roynato, sorry I was out all day!
> 
> You want the hoses long enough so they don't put any strain on the filter connections or the parts going into the aquarium. You will want the hoses to go upwards from the canister filter lid to the connections at the top rim of the tank. You don't want any slack, droops or loops in the hoses at all. I think when you said a swirl or two, you meant a loop where the hose curls around in a circle.
> 
> ...


Alright, here are some pics and videos. Please tell me if you guys had any problems viewing them.

Video of the flow rate. You guys think this is ok?





Video of the noise. (probably gonna need to raise your volume because sound recording ain't that great)





Pics of the canister below the tank, so you can look at the hoses. I did cut the hoses, but maybe I should have trimmed a little more... I was afraid to cut too much. But I don't think the way they are now is a problem. Before I cut it they used to loop one or 2 times, was too long.

















The input and output. They are on the right side of my tank, cause in the left I have a HoB filter.









The left side. My HoB is making all my water movement. I'm glad I decided to only get rid of one and not both. There used to be another HoB filter in that right side, where the canister in and outake are now located.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the videos and the pics!

The flow from the spray bar looks normal to me.

Yes I could definitely hear the noise from the canister filter. It sounds like a horrible humming noise and in my opinion is not normal. I wonder if it is an echo caused by vibration?

Just a couple more questions regarding the filter. What does the filter sticker/label say for voltage and Hz? What is your voltage and Hz for Brazil? If they aren't the same they won't be compatible and may be causing the humming noise.

Does the filter still make the same noise if you remove it from the basin with the towel in it?

The hoses are still a bit long but I don't think it's anything to be concerned about.


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Deeda said:


> Thanks for the videos and the pics!
> 
> The flow from the spray bar looks normal to me.
> 
> ...


Hello again Deeda. Good afternoon to you.

I talked to the store who shipped the filter to me, and I showed them the noise. They said that the impeller could have been dislocated a little bit during the shipment, so they asked me if I could remove it and lube it with some vaseline and then reattach it.

I did that and the noise is practically the same.I felt a very tiny improvement. Also when looking at the impeller I noticed an imperfection in that round metal thing. It looked like a tiny crack.

I then returned contact with them and showed that the noise is pretty much the same, and showed the impeller picture. They said that the noise is definitely not normal, as they have more of those working at their store, wich is also here in brazil, same voltage as I use btw, since you asked about that. And they said that they are sending me a new impeller for me to test it.
And in case that doesn't work either, they want me to send them the head of the filter so they can look at it.

Man this is the last thing I wanted...  
Feel really bad for my fish


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## Old Newbie (Feb 18, 2017)

The Sunsun 402 is not a very powerful canister, the flow is only about 250 gallons per hour. I have found with my Sunsun filters is that they flow better without the spray bar in place.

You can see the outputs at the top center of the back of the tank:









My Sunsuns run very quiet...


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks again Roynato!!

Good to hear about the voltage and Hz being the same. It was just a thought.

Well the good thing is they are trying to work with you and you can also see and hear this filter at your local store.

I understand your sorrow at having to go through these issues with a brand new filter but sometimes these things do happen. Hopefully the new impeller will do the trick but if not, just have them order the new filter head so you can just do a quick swap.


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Btw, this is the impeller crack I was talking about.









I am not sure if this would be enough to increase noise but well...


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Yes, that should not be cracked and is probably causing the noise because of the electrical field. At least I hope that is the problem.


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Deeda said:


> Yes, that should not be cracked and is probably causing the noise because of the electrical field. At least I hope that is the problem.


Just an update.

The new impeller has arrived, and I lubed it, installed very carefully and the filter is now making almost no noise at all, which is great!

But here is the problem:

As I opened the filter to change the impeller, I took a good look in that hole where you put the impeller and here is what I saw:









I showed this pic to the store lady that sent me the new impeller, and she told me this is really wrong, cause the impeller hole should not have any protuberances, and so this i a defect and she wants me to send them the filter head so they can fix it or replace it cause it is still on warranty.

Any of you guys that have these kinda filters noticed something like this in the impeller hole?

I am going to send her the product, but I am pissed haha, just now that the **** thing is FINALLY QUIET I am going to have to dismantle it again and sent it away...

With my luck, I sometimes consider not sending it because im afraid the "new" one is not going to be as quiet as I just got this one to be right now... but then I will lose my warranty.


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## Old Newbie (Feb 18, 2017)

Roynato said:


> Deeda said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, that should not be cracked and is probably causing the noise because of the electrical field. At least I hope that is the problem.
> ...


I have 3 Sunsun filters, 2 304b and 1 303b. None of them have defects like yours and all run quiet.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Roynato, good to hear the new impeller helped but sorry to see that there is some damage to the impeller cavity. Normally the inside of the impeller cavity is smooth so I'm guessing this is due to a factory defect.

Since the filter is still under warranty, I would definitely return the filter head and get a new one. I know it's not what you want to hear but I think you will be thankful in the long run.

You can place the filter media in a mesh bag and suspend it in your aquarium until you get the new filter head and that will help keep the media wet and allow the good bacteria a place to grow. Your other filter should be fine to filter the aquarium until you get the new part.

I recommend not using the canister filter for now because it may damage the new impeller you just got because it's possible the impeller may hit the protuberance and damage it again.


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Thank you Deeda and everybody else for the replies. I will be returning the filter head and I'll post again when they send me the replacing piece.


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## Trademark (Dec 31, 2016)

Never have priming issues with the Fluval fx4.


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## Roynato (Oct 20, 2017)

Hello everyone.

Just yo update the situation:

The store sent me a replacement head piece and this one works more silently.

Also, I had this wooden cabinet made as you can see in the picture. It fits right in that open space I had there, it fits perfectly on the iron frame. So now this will also help with any noise, and it looks better too.










So I guess this is all good for now.
Thanks for everyone who replied to my thread. :thumb: 
I'll see you guys in the next chapter


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the update and I'm so glad the new pump head is quieter. :dancing:

I also like the way the new panels fit on your iron stand! Looks great. =D>


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