# Cyprichromis Leptosoma Utinta - curbing aggression



## MatthewSimmons (Jan 18, 2007)

Hi,

Been keeping Tangs for a while but I wonder if anyone out there with serious experience of small Letptos can help me with sorting the excessive agression between my males.

Tank details (assume water is OK - I've tested and am happy with it - hard , low nitrogen, weekly water change etc)

48x18x18. 3 small rock piles - one at each end one in the middle. The other inhabitants:
Pair J Regani Kipili (breeding regularly - so conditions seem to be good for them) - not aggressive except when 'their' rocks are threatened - usual response!
Group of A. Calvus Black Zaire - Male plus 3 females (again breed regularly - no fry!!)
Group of S. Petricola - great fun!

4 mature male Utintas 7 mature female. All eat like hogs and the females are holding most of the time - but no fry - if the Calvus don't get them the Kipilis will ;-)

Whats happening is that the male utintas (I started with 7 - dwon to 4 now) beat each other up constantly. 2 males each take the water column over the open ground and hit any other male that shows it nose. Spectacular display, but eventually the weaker males develop an aversion to this and slowly pine away and die. I am loosing about one male every 6 months. They always seem to get an eye infection (a white spot bang in the middle) and then they can't see the attacks coming and its downhill from there.

My thinking is that maybe I need to add more males to "dilute" the aggression maybe 4? But maybe they will succumb like the others. Once they get the white spot on the eye nothing clears it. Melafix, PimoFix, Protzin and Tank Buddies - nothing touches it.

Anyone?

Thoughts shared would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Matt


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## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

> Thoughts shared would be much appreciated.


I don't know if this will help any, but I had a similar situation.
48x18x18 (75G) tank
4 J.transcriptus
1 A. calvus
4 E.kilesa
And 14 C. leptosoma Utinta:
4 mature males, 3 females and 7 immature unknowns

2 of the males were beating the tar out of each other, the other males, the females and sometimes the unknowns.
The females tail fins were shredded and there were bite marks (?) on the bodies. The females were holding regularly.

Like you said, the color display was amazing.

I moved 2 males, the 3 females and 1 unknown into my bowfront along with a reverse trio of J. regani from another tank. 
It's 36" and kind of short, I know, but my hope was that maybe the separation would help.

In the bow, after about a month, one male is dominate. The female's tails have healed nicely. 
They haven't started holding again yet, but I'm just happy they aren't getting so beaten up.
The dom. keeps things in check and occasionally nips back and forth with the female regani, but over all, there seems to be less stress.
Both males colors are intense.

Back in the origional tank, (75G) the remaining males spar some, but not like before. Their blue body and yellow tail colors are alot less intense. 
I guess it makes a difference in the males coloring up without females to show off for.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

I had 18 jumbo blue orchids, all males. Almost no aggresion at all, just displaying at each other. I personally believe that a four foot tank is to small to house all the males you need unless you don't have females. You could allways have just one or two males but, that's pretty drab (imo). I think you need a lot of males to spread out agression and that's not easy in a 48" tank. Sometimes you just have to experiment and move things around like Alicem did.


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## MatthewSimmons (Jan 18, 2007)

Interesting comments guys - I appreciate your thoughts.

It confirms my views. I am coming to the conclusion that actually although a 48 is quoted as a good size for a group of non-jumbos - its too really small. This tank has had a number of iterations - I have moved it twice when moving home and each time it all stabilised a DIFFERENT pair of males became dominant. :-? . Go figure.

I did have a 36 high with a group of Mpulungus and the only thing that worked in there was 1 male plus any number of females. it. I think 60 would be the magic number - tank size not individual fish!

As an aside, I have turned the manager of the LFS - he was nearly over to the dark side (mbunas) but I rescued him and he's now a full-on Tang fan. He is experimenting with your ideas in 3 of the 5ft sump tanks - one has a breeding group of Utintas - one has my old group of Mpulungus and the thrid he is dumping just the males from the 'breeding' tanks - this is his display tank and also has J ornatus and A Calvus and I have a suspicion that in 12 months this one will look stunning. Being a store manager he is looking for a different wow factor display tank and thinks that Cyps might just do it.

I do have an ethical problem with keeping just male fish on their own - maybe I'll trade the spare males end up with a duo of males - they still look awesome and I think they'll have the space in the 48. I simply don't have the room play around with other tanks I am afraid.

I wonder if I could get away with 2 male jumbos plus 4 females in a 48? Bigger visual impact.  - now there's a thought!


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## goldoccie21 (Jun 15, 2008)

i have a 55 with 9 males 7 utinta 2 small malasas. and 3 female utinta. my males fight alot and one got the white spot on its eye, turned off the lights for a day or 2 to curb aggresion and the spot cured itself. the utintas fight among themselves and the malasas among them 2. 2 females hold to term the other does not. my 75 with 10 females and two males males opposite sides and females group. get some holey rock my smaller males always dive in it. the first few days the females hold turn off the lights. too bad ur not closer i'm selling 4 of my male utintas. and they're big. for breeding you only need two males, one male he quits no competition. the 30 gallon has 2 m malasas and 3 females. get about 10-15 fry a month for about 4 months now.


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## 12pointer (May 30, 2006)

It funny how they say Jumbos are the aggressive ones. In the long run I think a 4' tank is to small, even for Utintas. Don't get me wrong I'm growing out a group of 15, 7m/ 8f in a 55 but their only 2.5'' They will be moved soon to a larger tank.

I have 5 different Cyps and I found that a 1 to 1 ratio is best. That way 1 male doesn't get picked on all the time.

I also provide alot of hiding places for them just in case they get picked on. I put slate on a 45 degree angle along the back glass so they have a place of refuge. The dom male always stay in the open to display themself, And they seem to like breeding next to it.


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## MatthewSimmons (Jan 18, 2007)

Thanks 12pointer - I read about the slate elsewhere on the forum and funnily enough alhtough I haven't got a contiguous back wall of rock I have got some vertical pieces of slatey rock in the end piles and yes the cyps love them. They also partciluarly like an overhang I have created as well. The rest of the rock is holey ocean rock - so plenty of hiding places.

I will try some more slates but I need to be smart here. The problem with creating using slates all across the back is that it would then link the 3 discreet rock piles into one and the Julies would then take over the whole tank :?

But I can do the slate thing at the opposite end to Kipili-city and with a narrow piece still maintain enough of a gap at their end. Should I be looking for the slates to right up to the surface?

Thinking about loosing the colour display if I end up with 2 male Utintas and say 5/6 females - would I get away with one male jumbo and a trio of females added to this set up or would the big boy just run out of room in a 4ft tank? I am not convinced, based on our experience at the LFS, that the two variants would interbreed and in any case a fry issue doesn't exist in this tank - 4 big black (and fat) Calvus  Free swimming fry last about 5 minutes.

Thanks

Matthew


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