# White Calvus? What do people think?



## Noddy65 (Sep 20, 2005)

Hi all
Are these the real deal?..Really Whites?


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Hard to say, but they look right.


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## BNoel21 (May 15, 2011)

I would say no only cause i have sone WC and F1 white calvus and none of them have the yellow in the head


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## des (Mar 30, 2011)

I would say so.

Here's a recent photo of one of mine you can compare to.


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## BNoel21 (May 15, 2011)

I mean everything looks good but the yellow in the head is confusing me.


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## des (Mar 30, 2011)

BNoel21 said:


> I mean everything looks good but the yellow in the head is confusing me.


You have a good point there. Here's a close up of mine. There's a slight tinge of tan. Perhaps that's normal.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

My 'blacks' resemble those...

Can anyone who has both (or had) outline the most obvious differences between the black and white calvus? I have 3 (All juvies less than 2")and one seems much lighter than the other 2, yet they came out of the same tank at the lfs..


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

My understanding is the only white variant is Chaitika and they do not often have yellow or tan on them. But some do.

My guess is someone has crossed variants to get yours.

But there again it is always possible a new variant (that I have not seen) that looks a bit like Chaitika has been imported and bred. Or it is the sort that do show some yellow and tan.

I do wish the trade would stick to using variant collection site names but sadly this confusion is good for the trade. No one can argue they are not white Altolamprologus calvus but we could argue they are not the normal looking Chaitika variant.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Sue's website is always a good read on this stuff.
http://www.suephoto.com/index.php/serwis/strona/8/57
But kind of still looking for the best web page I saw on this.  
Oh I guess Kabemba is another white calvus variant but nope I see no yellow or tan on most photos of those.

All the best James


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

I have noticed that the gold/yellow face seem to be a very rare trait found rarely in some blacks in the Congo.


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## Noddy65 (Sep 20, 2005)

Thanks for the info guys...we havent been able to import calvus/comps into Aus for many years....Whites are becoming difficult to find.
Over the years there has been some crossing between white and blacks, so I was checking to see what people thought...I too was concerned about the tan blaze....some whites on the net seem to have a very pale tan blaze, others dont...same with blacks

These fish are from another state (1500 km away) so I cant see them personally....there will be an element of trust in buying them

Very confusing

Mike


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Here's what I consider to be a standard, The "Black Zambian". Most "black calvus exported are more specifically collected on the southern congo shores in Zambia though very near or on the border. This is a nice Black zambian in a true neutral mode of color for comparison.

White Calvus can and do carry the light green in the face. Without getting technical, it is, simply put, the White calvus's ability to reduce their color that allows them to achieve that milk white look.

All variants of Calvus are actually patterned the same thus they will all display some level of what is usually described as yellow, green or tan in the face. All fish, all animals really, are subject to coloring by + - of melanin (The pigment which controls levels of black or brown), the processing and/or reaction/s of different carotenoids (Vegetable proteins, which in predators are generally consumed via gut-loaded prey), and/or "structural color" (The manipulation of UV light via shape and build of surface cells). I have seen in many of my F1 juvi fry over the years the display of yellow pectoral fins which gradually dissipate into clear or black fins depending on the variant for instance.









Here is an example of a wild white Calvus in a dark mode or, as I call it, "Patrol Mode" (When faced with a clear confrontation by any tank mate whilst live eggs are in the dominant female's shell/cave, all dominant males will "go dark". This is not to be confused with "Hide Mode" in which they will also go dark, however in "hide mode" the pearly scales will fade as will the striping and any other defining characteristics. In this case the Similis is too close to the shell which is full of free swimming fry.









Here is that same fish in what I call "Breeding mode" (Breeding mode is a coloring which is displayed when eggs have been laid and the male is actively holding the female into the shell/cave or in the process of fanning milt or anything to do with the release of milt "breeding mode" carries with it less blue in the lips than does "Courtship mode" which is the mode that is displayed prior to egg laying but more blue than "Patrol" or say "fighting mode")

How can I prove that either of these pics are indeed white calvus? It's easy. All variants of Calvus are, quite literally, the same fish... Simply put that is. Therefore, all have identical physical characteristics that have been adapted either by diet or the ability to manipulate melanin more dramatically or less dramatically thus the White Calvus is a Black Calvus which has a greater ability to bleach or remove melanin from occupied cells (Put very simply  ). This is why they all have some degree of yellow, green or tan on their faces.

The white calvus, in "neutral mode" is simply removing melanin to a further extent than do the other variants (The Yellow Calvus from Nkamba bay and Nkonde are perhaps the most unique in that they can remove melanin to a similar extent but also seem to have adapted some structural coloring as well. Although they may be creating the yellow pigment from some unique way in which their bodies process certain proteins I find "structural coloring" to be a more likely reason for the yellow hue since they do not lose their lustre through generations or diet changes in captivity). Whatever the difference the Yellow variant is likely the apple furthest from the tree and the most likely to adapt into a different species first in how ever many millions of years...

White calvus in "neutral mode"is Not to be confused with what I have labeled "Available mode" in which the white calvus appears milky white. "available mode" occurs when a male is looking to secure either a dominant female or an additional harem female; A harem female and a dominant female are, imo, physically different and a dominant male will likely only appear milky white if he is without a dominant female type (More on "Types" by request if this post wasn't long enoufgh for you ) . He will still be whiter than he is in "neutral mode" if he is looking to accept an additional harem type female to his group he just won't be as dramatically white.

Females seen in this "available mode" are signifying that they are available for pairing. if it is an unpaired dominant female she will display this mode. If it is an available harem female signaling for what I call "placement" which is when a willing male, encounters a breeding age "harem" type female and literally pushes her into the shell/cave of his choice where he will inspect for eggs and lay milt over the course of however long she remains there. (He will not protect the shell, fry or body of a harem type female even if she is his only female. More on why later.)









(An example of a group... The dominant male and female are pictured at the bottom, the other two harem females flying their white flags signifying they are looking for male acceptance which they have not yet received or been denied.)

Neutral mode is instead when he is calm and in no particular state of alarm such as breeding, courtship, patrol, fighting, feeding etc. It often can be observed after feeding once the fish has swallowed his meal.

Anyway (Drumroll), since there is no difference between the variants and we are not trying to identify a yellow calvus we must look for details which stand out regardless of the mode of your fish. If you're looking for it it's easy.

See the white line prominent on the edge of the dorsal fin? This is a dead give away that at least the fish on the top in your first photo is a white calvus proper.

It's true, all calvus have this distinctive white line on their dorsal however, some variants like "Congos", "Zambians" or "Livuas" do not have the same ability the white calvus does to remove melanin from the cells. At least not to the same extent. Thus, the white calvus, since he is not able to absolutely remove melanin from his cells or go absolutely white (Somebody will no doubt chime in and explain melanin, pigments etc. better and much more accurately than can I :roll: ) will always have a more dramatic white line upon his dorsal because of the contrast surrounding it will still be present to a certain extent whereas the black calvus's white line will darken and be obscured as the rest of him does and vice versa. A congo has a great white line but his is never quite as illuminated.

It is perhaps better for me to say that the white calvus's white line is more consistently white no matter the shade of the fish.

As you keep and perhaps breed these fish their will be other obvious indicators. White Calvus display very little blue in their breeding dress in comparison to congos and even yellows (Zambians are, by far, the bluest). The lack of blue is a trait the white calvus shares with only it's opposite, the "Black Pectoral" Calvus which could never be mistaken for a CHaitika.

IMHO you have at least one white calvus proper, I expect the other one to be as well I just didn't get a definitive look at it. Try feeding NLS, live shrimp, krill or brine shrimp and you'll see the yellow in the face appear to be more gray than green in a month or two. IME, the yellow faces get yellower when any variant is fed a high veggie containing food. Ghost shrimp and brine are the "whitest" foods for CHaitika Calvus imo, but as I explained you'll still be subject to their various modes and states. My dominant male has not been milky white since months after I first bred him and they all seem to lose the ability to control their white hues with great age. I'd say after 8 years the milk white look will be more or less light grey and won't ever glow etc.

They are beautiful regardless and, imho, the most intelligent fish I've ever kept. HTH :thumb:


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

On second look the top two are definitely whites. Are the bottom two the same fish? They look like they are but it's a bit blurry so I dare not assume.

For what it's worth I can say with confidence that the top one is male because he is, for whatever reason, slightly stressed in the photograph. This can be observed by the dissipation of his bars and coloring, or lack thereof along his gill plate. A dominant female wouldn't express this coloring even if you had just dumped in the tank, males are a bit quicker to panic under pressure :lol:

The little one is a ripe withe eggs harem-type female which may spawn for you soon. Judging by their scales they both look to be of similar age, my guess is 2-3 year olds.

Both are very well formed. Your male has a great flat jaw from his mandible to his gill plate (The gill plate and jaw deformities are the best indicators of a bad strain and the most common flaws) and, once he toughens up and fattens up should become a stunning Dominant type male who will likely grow very fast, for a calvus.

That female will always be small because she is a harem type female however harem females spawn more often and in greater numbers than dominant females, my guess is because their acceptance is based upon production whereas a dominant female's is not.

No doubt your pair behave as if paired, cruising the tank together. Put a true dominant type female in their and that'll all change. He will be light in color until your little female looks to be placed in a shell/cave and then he'll be beautifully dressed in bars, pearly scales and hues of slight blue.

Your female seems to already be inviting him to court her judging by her proximity to him and her color. She will likely only be milky white for brief moments, between breeding sessions, until or unless you introduce another female of any type in there.

Sorry for the HUGE posts but I am stupid crazy for Altos, I type fast, and I can't help myself.


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

I have seen a descent, but not a lot, of wild white calvus with yellow on their snout. To me, I think you have the real deal.


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