# Protomelas Marginatus "Turquoise Hap"?



## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

Hi everyone, I recently ordered a young adult male with a shipment that is expected to arrive tomorrow, I was told they were relatively peaceful, but there is very little documentation of their behavior, breeding, or compatibility anywhere that I can find. I was wondering if someone out there may have some experience with this fish. Thanks in Advance!

here is a pic of what he (hopefully) will look like......


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## lmhollist (Aug 7, 2009)

I'm about to be the same boat as you tomorrow when my online order arrives. I decided to go for some marginatus as well! Ad Konings' book doesn't say much about them other than that they seem to have a very wide distribution in the lake. My plan was to go with a nice m/f ratio and learn from experience about how big they are likely to get, their behavior, etc.

So yeah, responses from anyone with prior experience with these guys would be much appreciated!


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

I am trying to add him to my all male 72g bow, he is being shipped with an Aul. Mbenji, Placidochromis sp. Jalo, an Aul. ruby red, a Placidochromis Electra Makonde, and a Usissya Flavescent. I am adding a total of seven new fish in hopes of reducing aggression in the new mix. The Jalo and the Marginatus are the only 2 that I don't know a lot about. I guess I will find out soon enough!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Don't you find that some of those fish are too big for a 72G bowfront?


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

Funny you should mention that, I haven't updated my stock list in a while. I removed the dolphin, the tangerine tiger, and the Fryeri. My current list will be something along the lines of ....

Aul. Baenschi
Aul. Chitande type North
Aul. Kandeense
Aul. Mbenji
Aul. Usissya Flavescent
Aul. some hybrid
Aul. Stuartgranti some variant
Aul. sp. Ruby Red
Lethrinops Red Cap
Lethrinops Albus Kande
Placidochromis Johnstoni
Placidochromis sp. Jalo
Placidochromis Electra Makonde
Protomelas steveni Taiwan
Protomelas Marginatus
Protomelas Taeniolatus red empress

The Jalo and the Electra are only supposed to reach 6" max, and the T-reef 7" at most, I know that the Empress can reach 9" or so, and I am prepared to move him out if he is stressing the other fish too much, I was told the Marginatus will only reach around 6" as well, so if the max size of the Haps is 6-7" and if they are fairly mellow, and the rest are peacocks and Lethrinops species, I am hoping it will work out, but I am not expecting it to be a slam dunk, obviously there are always issues to iron out. 
Please feel free to comment further, if I am off base I would like to know about it, I would rather be able to provide a good home to my fish than worry about if I'm wrong or not.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think I would have stayed with 10-12 fish with a max mature size of 6" but I'm still learning about hap/peacock tanks.


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

In the library the cookie cutter set-up for a 75g (same length) shows setups with 20 fish in a tank, I realize that in an all male tank the situation will be a bit different, with larger fish, etc. but I am hoping if I keep the total number of fish to around 15-16, that it will serve to lessen overall aggression as well without sacrificing the health of the fish.


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## justinf67 (Jul 19, 2009)

*sevmeera* so u got this guy in, wheres the pics?  was he up to ur expectations?


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

I recieved the shipment yesterday, he is currently getting quarantined in a 29g, I haven't had time to post pics, but I will when I get home. I had the lights off in his tank, so I haven't even had a great look at him. I am also very excited to get a look at the Plac. Jalo, I have been looking for one for a long time.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

sevmeera said:


> In the library the cookie cutter set-up for a 75g (same length) shows setups with 20 fish in a tank, I realize that in an all male tank the situation will be a bit different, with larger fish, etc. but I am hoping if I keep the total number of fish to around 15-16, that it will serve to lessen overall aggression as well without sacrificing the health of the fish.


I agree that the 75G and your tank are the same length, but so is a 55G. Are the sides of the of your 72G bowfront 12"? If yes then it would be comparable to the 55G footprint. The crescent on the front is usually not big enough to add a fish territory. Whereas the 75G with it's 18" depth adds 33% more territory than provided by a 48" x 12" footprint.

The *15 6" mbuna *in a 55G tank stocking already reflects the overstocking that is frequently suggested to reduce aggression.

I hope it all works out well for you! :thumb:


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

Thats it! I am going to go buy a 40 long and stock it with Trout cichlids and Fusco's, maybe 5 or 6 Fossochromis! JK  . I agree that the 72 is not quite the same as the 75, but still, I wouldn't compare it to a 55. The depth at the 1/4 mark and 3/4 mark of the tank width is 15", which makes half of the tank larger than 15" wide, and the rest more than 12" wide.

Even so, I anticipate having to remove one or 2 fish, it just tends to happen when you change the makeup of a tank, some may be overly aggressive, some may be overly stressed by tankmates and need to be relocated, and (hopefully not) there may be fish losses due to illness. I am cautiously optimistic going forward, I dont have any fish over 5" at this time, so there should be time to get it figured out. Thanks again for the input and suggestions.

here is a pic of my new guy, tell me what you guys think......


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## justinf67 (Jul 19, 2009)

looks like a cool specimen to grow out =D>


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

That stock list should be for a much larger tank. The Profile lengths are an average max. A taiwan reef adult male is huge! I dont know what you are smokin but I want some!!! Your nitrates will be through the roof and your fish will not be able to move if they make it to adult hood. You jumped right in and over loaded the tank. I dont care about any cookie cutter, imagine all those fish, which will be bigger than your hand swimming in that tiny tank. SAD..... Bumper fish. :fish:

I like the new fish you got but you might want to get that 40 long just for him. As usual Dj is right. I don't know the guy but he seems to know his stuff. Sounds like someone has an addiction, a fish addiction...lol I like your stock list and love haps and peacocks but I also know how big they get. Good luck and in due time, you will see just how big those fish can get.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

PiePuncher said:


> As usual Dj is right. I don't know the guy but he seems to know his stuff.


Thanks for the kind words. I've learned a lot of what I know by reading every Malawi post on this forum since I joined...some of it had to sink in, right? :thumb:


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

With all due respect, I have to disagree with you, I have done a lot of research and spoken to a lot of experts, at length, people like Erik ****, and Peter Rubin to name a couple, and listened to them and their thoughts, not to say you don't have a point, but I tend to put a lot of stock in the opinions of people with the kind of experience that they have. I have put a lot of thought into my stocklist, made a lot of changes to keep the fish happy and healthy ( my nitrates have never reached 20 by the way). And as I said, it is a work in progress, if you read the previous posts I said repeatedly that I expected to have to adjust the makeup of the tank, but in my opinion a 72g is a great size for a peacock, smaller hap tank. besides at the very least it will be a great excuse to get a 125 somewhere down the road! I will post at some point in the future and let you guys know how its going, til then I am going to stay decidedly positive in my outlook.


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

Sorry to offend you but I know from personal experience that it will be tough and I read your post. I like that you are so enthusiastic about it and you have high hopes. I hope at some point you do find a steal of a deal on a large tank because those fish will look tight in a good setup.
At first, I truly had no idea as to how big these fish got but once I had the same fish for over 5 years, I now understand. You could eat those dudes when they become adults..lol 
I have not talked to the people that you have, nor do I need to. I am a tournament fisherman with a Kinesiology degree that has a love for fish and that is it. I have learned everything hands on from the time I was a child until now. Fish have always been a part of my life and now I have a three year old son that loves everything that has to do with fish... Just keeps getting passed down. 
I do wish you the best of luck and hope you enjoy watching your fish grow. I like the fish you purchased and might even get one at sometime. How big is the fish that you received? Looks to be young but colorful for being so young. Neat fish


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

Sorry if I sounded offended, I really wasn't, I absolutely understand the point you are making, and to some degree I agree with it, there is a good chance we will have to part ways with our Red Empress at some point as they can grow 9'+, as well as the Placidochromis Johnstoni, which doesn't get as big (7" or so), but really those are the only fish that will be really big, most of the peacocks we have are of smaller varieties and should all stay sub 5", the other haps should stay around 6" (hopefully), and like I said before they are all fairly young and smaller, so if I do have to readjust the mix, I am prepared to do so. I in no way meant to make it sound like you don't have experience as well, just trying to build my case ( mostly for my own peace of mind  )
The Protomelas I just got is around 4.5" right now, and has some really neat colors, greenish turquoise with a sort of orange creamsicle color on his fins, I have him quarantined in a 29 for the next week or 2 with some of the other peacocks I ordered, and he seems really chilled out, no chasing at all even though he is by far the biggest. And as a fellow bass fisherman, is it just me or does he look a little like a turquoise largemouth?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I feel better that you have at least considered that this might be more of a long-term grow-out tank than a permanent residence. Should be workable for a year or maybe even two, right? Enjoy your fish!


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## sevmeera (Aug 8, 2009)

Thanks DJ, I have a feeling once everything is said and done that this will be more of a peacock only male tank, with maybe 1-3 smaller haps at most. I will keep you guys posted, I am renting a smaller space than I would like, but I plan on moving in the next year or so, so maybe that 125 or 180 isn't too far away!  , my long term goal would be to keep the 72 as an all male peacock tank, and also have a 125 or larger for an all male Hap show tank ( still a pipe dream,but a dream nonetheless!), I think the 72 should be sufficient to house 12-14 smaller peacocks, any thoughts?
Thanks again for the input, I am glad for this discussion, never hurts to have a mature, civil, productive discourse every now and then, too many times have I seen talks like this degenerate into a p*ssing contest or name calling. Debate is one of the cornerstones of civilized society, and I was glad to be a part.


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## tires_6792 (Mar 25, 2005)

i just aquired a group of 8 of these guys last weekend. I still cant find too much info on them.

got no replies on a thread i started at cichlidae.com either.

Must be pretty rare still.

I love the 2 tone color, ( although mine havent quite colored up to full potential yet).

Mine are about @3" size 2M6F from what i can tell to date.

So far they seem pretty peaceful but i also have them overstocked right now. the only aggression is by the lone jacksoni male i have in with them. I am hanging on to the jacksoni for a future all male show tank i plan on doing as i cant find any females for him anyways.

I will be getting rid of 4 fish from the tank within a month, (hopefully), and maybe this will let one of the marginatus take over dominance.

What are you guys feeding them?

I am feeding dianichi Veggie FX and also mixed in some NLS i had left over from my 5LB bucket to use it up.

I thought i read somewhere that these are "veggie" eaters. True?

I usually feed my fish mysis shrimp as well.


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## tires_6792 (Mar 25, 2005)

So, i have been observing them for a while and i have to tell you....these are some of the most beautiful males *** had out of all my groups. Cant go wrong if you like blues in a fish.

Here are some updated pics of my group i wanted to share.

If anyone wants some info on these fish please PM me. i have been keeping or building a profile on these guys and am always adding something.

I would also like to see pics of anyone else marginatus.


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## lmhollist (Aug 7, 2009)

I'll definitely take some pics of mine. Unfortunately we lost our larger male soon after we got him, I think he contracted bloat from stress. Now we have our group of 1 male and 4 females in a 125 and 2 of the females have HUGE mouthfuls. I think in the future we may flesh out the group a little more with 1 more male and potentially 2 more females just to have a little more security. I think having a little competition from a second male would encourage our dominate male to display more color.


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## tires_6792 (Mar 25, 2005)

my group is 3 M 5F.

How long did it take for your females to successfully hold?

*** had them breed 4 times in the short itme *** had them but they always seem to spit/eat the eggs within 24 hours.

Although this last time, she held for 2 days before spitting.

Did you have this problem when they were young as well?


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## lmhollist (Aug 7, 2009)

We've only had them since early April. The 2 females holding are both about 5 inches and are probably ready for us to strip otherwise they may spit in the tank. This is the first time we've had them spawn since we received them. We moved into a new house about 2 months ago so I guess it probably took them a little while to settle in to their new surroundings.


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## tires_6792 (Mar 25, 2005)

mine are smaller @3"-ish.

Cant wait to see your pics. 

i have mine under a Current USA T5HO fixture. im using colormax and 1 actinic in it right now.


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## lmhollist (Aug 7, 2009)

Ok, so got a few pics last night. One of the holding females is shy and didn't want her picture taken and the male was very unhappy with me for turning on the light (they aren't used to it being on) so he didn't show off his colors to his best advantage but here goes:

This is the "nest" our male built by digging out all the sand from behind and around this rock pile. One of the holding females spends almost all her time almost exclusively inside this pile.










Sifting through the sand to find any leftover food bits. He typically shows the blended look of the blue and green but his black stripe was showing through today, probably because of the light being on.










Male and holding female.




























So there's my sharing for the day.


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## mmz3 (Sep 7, 2009)

so i just picked 1 of these guys up tonight. ill get pics when he settels in a bit, looks alot like a female atm. hes about 3" now and i hope with in the week will start showing some of his color.


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## tires_6792 (Mar 25, 2005)

i finally had a successful spawn. the 6th time was the charm...the 7th not so good. but i do have 19 fry growing out right now. i had to end up moving the female a day after breeding to her own tank where she could hold in peace. my group seems very aggressive compared to others. even the females go at it often.

mmz3: no doubt you will be happy with him, (if indeed a male), these fish dont seen too popular and i dont know why. maybe it because not too many have seen them in person. they are outright gorgeous when in full color.


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## mmz3 (Sep 7, 2009)

well he made it through day 1. i was worried because was the only 1 i added and was at 3". hes the only horazontal strip fish though so i assume that helped. he has a little blue on the top and slight bit of green on the bottom. at this point it looks a lot like a red emperess starting to change..... wich i hope its not !!!!! ill get pics up soon


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## lektronimo (Mar 19, 2011)

My Turquoise Haps are DEVILS,very aggressive!


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## tires_6792 (Mar 25, 2005)

lektronimo said:


> My Turquoise Haps are DEVILS,very aggressive!


Mine were too.

I just got rid of my group of 7 today.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Mine is not aggressive, but he is still pretty young and there is a larger borleyi in the tank. Can't wait until he colors up fully.


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Mine was aggressive (when first introduced to the quarantine tank) but a 6" Electra ironed him out in the show tank. :thumb:


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