# Variabilichromis Moorii



## ebjdftw (Aug 24, 2010)

I would really like to find out more about this fish. Became fascinated after seeing some photos from another user. What would be the minimum tank size for a pair? Who has kept these before? What were your water conditions, diet for the fish, any interesting stories regarding this fish?

Thanks for any input!


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

These fish are similar to other brichardi types, and I expect them to be included in the brichardi complex when that mess is finally reevaluated. They are only the deep black when they exert their dominance. A 29 gallon is good for a pair.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Darkside said:


> These fish are similar to other brichardi types, and I expect them to be included in the brichardi complex when that mess is finally reevaluated.


I don't see them being anything like brichardi types to be honest. The are certainly aggressive like most other Lamprologines, and even on the most aggressive side of it. But, I don't see how they are like pulcher (brichardi) types.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Fogelhund said:


> Darkside said:
> 
> 
> > These fish are similar to other brichardi types, and I expect them to be included in the brichardi complex when that mess is finally reevaluated.
> ...


Currently they are placed in a basal position in lamprologine phylogeny and this is supported by both molecular and morphological data. I have a feeling that they are more closely related to the brichardi complex then then rest of the lamprologine tribe and they likely share a common ancestor. I guess they are placed in Variabilichromis due to their morphological differences and ancestral background.
They certainly share a lot of behavioural traits with the brichardi complex as well.


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## Jamey (Jul 19, 2008)

the fact that most reference material (both breeders and text) say they're horrible parents as well as being more sensitive to hormones exuded by other fish in the water would put them very different from your typical brichardi type which is an excellent parent and quite capable of filling any sized tank with young within a year's time, regardless of the existence of tankmates or not.

Certainly they belong more within the Lamp branching than any other branch from the lake, but I think that's more based on the fact that the branch system up til now is fairly straight... were there more branching options I think they'd wind up further away. Right now if you're a rock/cave/substrate spawner you're either a lamp or a julie or a alto. It's convenient and neat that way, and there aren't enough fish to really fill things out that much more, but the fact that some papers show that V. Moorii reproduces better next to Mustax due to a heightened awareness of hormones in the water table from that specific fish puts them, I feel at least, further down a branch rather than sitting neatly next to Brichardis. Breeders I've spoken to have said julies on the other side of the glass breeding is enough to kick them into doing their thing in the fish room. Others have said, no, I don't know what you're talking about, then when I convey the previous statement to them they say, as if a lightbulb just kicked on, come to think of it, it did seem like they popped their eggs at the same time as the whatever next door but I can't swear by that...

Certainly they're interesting if nothing else!


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

The lamprologini tribe encompasses, Altolamprologus, Lepidiolamprologus, Lamprologus, Neolamprologus, Telmatochromis, Julidocromis and Chalinochromis. If anything Variabilichromis belongs closest to Neolamprologus.


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## Jamey (Jul 19, 2008)

Aren't most of the neolamps s ell dwellers and smaller fish? Also aren't many of them harem breedets rather than monogamous?


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## Jamey (Jul 19, 2008)

I would see them as closer to alto, but with heightened agression..


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## ebjdftw (Aug 24, 2010)

You guys make it seem like it is a fish worth knowing.....this intrigues me more!


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## Jamey (Jul 19, 2008)

Well, that's the interssting thing about it... it's a bit of an anomoly. It's normal for sand dwellers and featherfins to change their color when breeding but even they don't go as extreme as tb morph their entire body top to bottom, nose to tail. i can't off hand think of any other lamprologines that change colors to any degree during breeding which was probably an argument for making it its own group


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Jamey said:


> Aren't most of the neolamps s ell dwellers and smaller fish? Also aren't many of them harem breedets rather than monogamous?


The majority of Neolamps are not shelldwellers, most of the shellies have been moved to "Lamprologus" until we know better where to place them.


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## ebjdftw (Aug 24, 2010)

So would you guys say the best way to pair these off would be to get like 6 of them and have them pair off naturally and re-home the rest? Or could you just get two sexed juveniles (if possible) and they would likely pair?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

ebjdftw said:


> So would you guys say the best way to pair these off would be to get like 6 of them and have them pair off naturally and re-home the rest? Or could you just get two sexed juveniles (if possible) and they would likely pair?


Definately would recommend getting six.

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@ darkside - which behavioural traits have you noted that are similar to the pulcher group, but not similar to other Lamprologines?


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## ebjdftw (Aug 24, 2010)

Okay so my next day off im going to purchase a 29 gallon and stand with some sand and some rocks. Don't think I need plants just rock piles will do correct?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

This is an aggressive fish. Will a 29G be large enough for a pair?


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## Jamey (Jul 19, 2008)

you'll never find sexed juveniles... and you want to let them choose their pair, not force a pair on them. They pair for life, so it's a pretty important part...

I think a 29 would work, they'd have to be alone in a tank that size... you'd do better with a 30 long to allow for more caves and maybe even a dwarf pair of julies to encourage preeding or even, as I said above, a 45. Then you could probably add some paracyps or some other upper water fish to fill out the tank some. Mine don't mess with the featherfins at all unless they drop close to the bottom. As far as rock piles, they want a cave, so you don't have to build a sand to waterline pile, just give them 2 rocks with a flat rock on top, or some broken flower pots that form a cave... Mine will chose either. atleast 3 caves is best, right now they're looking like they're setting up breeding in a 3rd area while living in the other 2.

DJRansome, they're agressive but not to each other at all (my mated pair all but cuddles) so a 29 would be a crunch to get more fish in, but for just a male and a female it'd prolly work. In time though they're going to get larger... a couple years down the road when the female fully fills out to 5+ inches you're prolly gonna have to consider something larger. That's a long way off though.


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## ebjdftw (Aug 24, 2010)

Yeah I looked around for a 30gal long but I couldn't find one, so I picked up a 29. Down the road I would definitely upgrade probably to a 55 and make these the main fish. Im going to get six and pair them off that way, already asked my LFS if they would accept the excess and they were pumped to hear which fish it was LOL, so no worries there. They have a whole section of tank devoted to African Cichlids and they have them at higher pH. I think I'm lucky to have such a good LFS.

As for tank decor I'm going to go with Carib Sea African Cichlid Mix Substrate, kind of a light tan sand color. I'm not used to setting up rocks for African cichlids though, and I don't think I need to put plants. For a background I'm going to just put up a black one. So the only question is how to arrange the rocks? Just make sure I have some flat ones or should I stack them for caves? And how about clay pots for caves do you think that would be okay? Again any feedback is appreciated, just trying to learn as much as possible =)


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## Jamey (Jul 19, 2008)

I use pool filter sand in all my tanks... 6 bucks a bag... if you want that white and black mix, add a smaller bag of black moonsand from petsmart... still cheaper than a fancy bag o sand  (that's what's in the pictures, pool sand and moon sand). I generally go for trios of rocks, 2 rocks with one on top, then I'll build sort of a rock wall going down the tank and add more trios as I go. They'll pick a spot and start digging into the cave to create a deeper cave. For that reason it's important to make a cave that's not going to collapse on them. My female collapsed her first cave and moved to another (actually kicked the male out of his.) let the back seal off, don't make it a passthrough. they're great for hiding out if agression gets bad, but a real cave with one entrance is what they want to live in. Yes, pots work as well. I have a bluish pot I broke and put the pieces in to create caves and that seems to be where they're setting up shop to spawn... they live in other caves, but are both working together on this 3rd makeshift cave. Plants are optional... if you're going to grow out 6, plants can be good to offer protection when they territorial agression starts happening. it also just makes things look more pleasant... I have plants in all my tanks for the sake of having something going into the upper water... I don't ever build rocks real high, I'm too afraid they'll fall and break something. I think if I were ever going to I'd get some foam or use silicone and affix them to each other just for safety purposes. I'm paranoid about 100s of gallons of water hitting my floor all at once because a 2" multi went on a sand shifting binge...


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## ebjdftw (Aug 24, 2010)

Yeah I got buffer sand to start the tank off, but then im going to start adding baking soda to my water for water changes, I have very neutral water. I have to figure out how much baking soda per gallon I have to do, but I dont have the fish yet....perfect time to get everything right.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I'll agree with Jamey here, while they can very aggressively defend a territory, once paired I didn't see much of any aggression between the pair at all. For the pair, a 29 will easily suffice.


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## cyfan964 (Apr 17, 2007)

Sorry to bump an old thread, but does anyone have any more information on these guys? Looking for more first hand experience.

I have a colony of Lamprologus similis in a 40B with some Harlequin rasbora as dithers. Think I could grab a group and let 2 pair off in the tank?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

cyfan964 said:


> Sorry to bump an old thread, but does anyone have any more information on these guys? Looking for more first hand experience.
> 
> I have a colony of Lamprologus similis in a 40B with some Harlequin rasbora as dithers. Think I could grab a group and let 2 pair off in the tank?


I think the similis could end up getting beaten on in such a scenario.


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## Altophile (Aug 5, 2015)

When I kept VM's awhile back they did better in the biggest setups I could provide them. I was lucky that they were sold to me paired, they bred easily but the parents died of old age before I was ale to have a bonded pair from the many fry I got from them. I wish I had put more time and focus into their setup.

They reminded me of N. Helianthus without the seek and destroy attitude. Although they will destroy and even retaliate with deadly force if harassed. It is my understanding that they used to be extremely common? I never see them anymore. When happy they are fat and black and a great tang imo!

+1 I don't think similis would last very long with VM  Oddly enough I was able to keep mine with Enantiopus kilesa but it was a big tank.


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## lifan23 (Dec 27, 2005)

They are very aggressive when they get to full size.. Probably the most aggressive fishes I have and I have about 50 species of Tangs. I had a pair in a 60 and the male pushes all of the other fishes to the corner of the tank. Right now I had to take the male out and put him in a 20 gal by himself. I moved the female to my 240 gallon and she occupies 1 feet of the tank by herself. Your 29 gallon will definitely not cut it.


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## rafini (Mar 20, 2014)

My first cichlid aquarium was actually a tang community, and I had 2 of these guys in there. not really any pics as this was about 10 years ago but I found them to be very much like lelupi. they were only aggressive to the other fish if they got too close to their territory. They were a nice light brown tan color when I got them, one grew larger and turned dark brown. All in all they were very easy to care for and never caused any trouble in my set up.


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