# 20 minute diy trickle/sump lots of pics



## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

This is the first time I've fully documented a project. Usually I end up taking a pic two months later and try to describe the steps without pictures. This time I took a pic of each step so if its too much let me know and I can edit and take some off.

Materials needed:

Option 1 (will hold a little over a gallon of bio media)
2-2 gallon buckets
1-10 gallon tank
prefilter media
bio media

Option 2 (Will hold about 4 gallons of bio media)
2-5 gallon buckets
1- 29 gallon tank
prefilter media
bio media










Step1: Cut about 1 1/2 inches off the bottom of one of the buckets off. Precision is not necessary. I made a starter cut with a utility knife then get my sawsall in there and turn the bucket while holding the sawsall.










Step 2: Drill a bunch of small holes in the portion of the bucket you just cut off. The size of the holes is dependent on how much water you will be pushing through. You may have to experiment with this step drilling smaller holes then larger. When filtering you want water to stand in the prefilter so it comes out of all the holes, but you don't want it to overflow the prefilter or you get debris in your biomedia.










Step 3: Cut prefilter to size. For this one I found a course prefilter that is washable but I don't know where I got it or what it is formally called. On the other one I did I got a piece of filter felt that was cut to size. Insert the prefilter and the prefilter/drip plate is complete.










Step 4: Drill a bunch of big holes in the bottom of the bucket you did NOT cut in half. They should be as large as possible so that the water flows through the bucket, but small enough that the biomedia doesn't fall through. Pic shows a bioball sitting in one of the holes.










Step 5: Insert bio-media. I use bioballs which is kinda anti-diy but anything with good surface area would work, i've heard of pot scrubbers being used for this.










Step 6: Put the prefilter on top of the biomedia. Level out the biomedia such that the prefilter sits relatively level










Step 7: Drill an overflow hole the same size as the size of your incoming plumbing. In the event that the prefilter is clogged this will keep the water in the sump.










Step 8: Put the bucket in the tank. oriented so that the overflow hole will spill into it.










Optional: If you aren't going to hang this in a tank but are rather going to use a rubbermaid or other container. The top of the bucket you cut apart can be used as a stand for the filter. You would need to cut notches in the bottom (which I didn't) to allow water flow.










Completed project.

Small version:










Large Version:


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## TheeMon (May 11, 2004)

what do you have pumping the water?

i need to know about the pump


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

any aquarium sump or pond pump will do. For my big one I use the Mag-Drive 9.5 and on the small one the mag-drive 5


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## TheeMon (May 11, 2004)

cost?


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## bentcountershaft (Nov 23, 2007)

Thanks for doing this tannable, I was really curious to your set up. That looks like it will work very well, and is very easy to do.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

TheeMon said:


> cost?


Assuming brand new materials: 10gal tank $10, 2-2gal buckets $8, prefilter media $5, biomedia $? depends on what you use. For the large version a 29 glass only is $35 and the buckets $5 each


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## TheeMon (May 11, 2004)

i ment for the pump cost


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

TheeMon said:


> i ment for the pump cost


http://www.bigalsonline.com
http://www.drsfostersmith.com

Both of those vendors should carry the mag-drives that tannable is using. There are other pump options both more and less expensive though, depending on your taste and budget.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who is planning to use a QuietOne 1200 in his 10 gallon sump, and while it's cheaper than the Mag-5, it also only pushes a fraction of the water the Mag5 should push)


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## TheeMon (May 11, 2004)

how "loud" is this whole setup?


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

TheeMon said:


> how "loud" is this whole setup?


I haven't installed the small one yet, but the big one is pretty quite. The big one I have is pretty quiet. There are a few sources of noise that I have found:

1. In the overflow: In my big tank I have the all-glass built in overflow and they are very quiet. In a different setup I have DIY pvc overflows and they make some gurgling noise.

2. Where the water hits the prefilter it was really noisy at first. I extended the drop pipe down closer to the drip plate (see pic at the end of post). I didn't glue the last drop pipe so it can be removed when I clean the filter or if I remove the bucket.

3. The pump itself sitting right on the glass on the bottom of the tank made a humming or vibrating noise. I eleminated this by putting a sponge between the pump and the glass.

Overall I'd say mine is very quiet.


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## car23los23 (Apr 16, 2008)

hello !!! i have a 55 gal .... do u think the ten gal sump is good for that or do i have to get a bigger one?????


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I think the 10 would be fine with a 400-500 gph pump.


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## swamptrout (Jul 2, 2007)

on your return do you have a T piece with twin returns?? how is that? do you find the water returns with even pressure??


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

On my 150g tank i have a T and twin returns, and each of those has a Y so 4 returns total. On my 55g tank I just have a single return with a spray bar. You could us UGJ's, spray bars, or straigt returns however you wish as long as your pump will support. The only word of caution to make sure you have a sipon break near the tank entrance.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

I've been planning to follow your 2gallon bucket in a 10gallon sump example, since I'm planning a 10 gallon sump for my 29 gallon tank. I've been eyeing my pile of empty kitty litter pails lately though, and I'm thinking they may fit into the 10gallon tank in a similar fashion! Must needs to go to Wal-Mart and buy my 10 gallon tank so I can see if they fit!

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## Nathan43 (Jul 9, 2007)

Awesome job, thanks


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## Awugod (Mar 10, 2006)

Sweet project. Thanks for the post, intructions plus pics :thumb: . I may build the small set up for my 55gal. Thanks again.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

Very helpful!

A few questions:

1. The bucket looks suspended and held above the bottom of the tank by fitting on the braces of the tank. Is that not too much weight pushing directly down on the sides of the tank?

2. Since you were able to so clearly and sequentially describe the sump any chance you could do that with the materials and step by step putting together of the pipes themselves into a tank with pre-drilled holes and overflow?


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

cholile said:


> 1. The bucket looks suspended and held above the bottom of the tank by fitting on the braces of the tank. Is that not too much weight pushing directly down on the sides of the tank?


A 10 gallon tank normally holds 80 pounds of water inside, pushing out on the sides (~230lbs for the 29gallon tank). The glass is actually stronger when pushed on vertically -- I wouldn't be worried about it.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

That was pretty much my question. Whether the vertical pressure was problematic since tanks are designed to hold water inside but not necessarily support a lot of weight from above pressuring directly downward on the sides.

Good to know that's not an issue.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

Rick_Lindsey said:


> I've been planning to follow your 2gallon bucket in a 10gallon sump example, since I'm planning a 10 gallon sump for my 29 gallon tank. I've been eyeing my pile of empty kitty litter pails lately though, and I'm thinking they may fit into the 10gallon tank in a similar fashion! Must needs to go to Wal-Mart and buy my 10 gallon tank so I can see if they fit!
> 
> -Rick (the armchair aquarist)


If those fit and they are or course cleaned thats awesome, shaves a few bucks off the project :thumb: :thumb:

I had a small bucket of mastic that fit perfectly but I didn't feel comfortable that I could get the chemicals cleaned well enough so I sprung for the buckets. The 2 gal bucket are only a couple bucks anyways.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

> If those fit and they are or course cleaned thats awesome shaves a few bucks off the project :thumb:


It does fit! I have two sizes, and I think the smaller will work better. It's very satisfying from a DIY standpoint, plus there's the bonus irony of using cat products for my fishtank.

Of course the fit of the whole sump system into my stand leaves something to be desired . Note to self : converting an "open" stand with a shelf into a cabinet stand doesn't leave much room for a sump...

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who will probably be buying some 2x4's this weekend)


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

When I put mine in I thought I that I could put the 10 gallon tank into the stand sideways but I couldn't. I had to drain the tank about 3/4 and move the stand from the wall to get the filter in. It was worth it though.


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## G-Man (Apr 18, 2008)

Could you put 2- (2 gallon buckets, side by side) in this 10 gallon tank so it would double the media? I would think that the flow through the two buckets would be equal, (I will be using a hurricane quietflo 1200 overflow), what do you think? It has a mag drive 12 pumping back to the tank.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I don't think 2 buckets would fit in a 10 gallon tank, I'd use the larger version with the 5 gallon bucket, especially with the water flow you are going to get from the mag drive 12.


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## G-Man (Apr 18, 2008)

Thanks for the reply. I got the buckets after I read your article. Nice idea by the way. I put them in the tank today and they fit perfectly. I would like to use a bigger sump, but this is the best way (hooking two 10 gallon tanks together with bulkheads), I could come up with so I could get the sump in and out of the stand if I have to. This is my first sump so I guess it is just trial and error. Hopefully more trial than error though.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

The first one of these I did was in my in wall tank so I have complete access from the rear. The second one I did I discovered the hard way that I needed to put the 10 gallon tank in the 55 gallon stand from the back so I had todrain 70% of the main tank to slide it enough to get the sump in. it was a pain but its worth it since my 55 is overstocked.


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## G-Man (Apr 18, 2008)

By the way, what size bio balls did you use? I have found 1" and 1.5". I haven't seen these before, so I don't know the size difference.


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## ictoae (May 17, 2008)

so, I'm going to be building one of the smaller of these and stashing it under my 35g. the question I have is, will a mag drive 7 on the return line be strong enough to power 3 UGJs. The flow charts say that at 4 ft head height it has a flow of 450gph.

I intend to have this as my only filtration with 2 siphons 1 low and 1 high in the tank. will the siphons draw enough water to suck up the solids that my jets push to them? Will I need to run another filter to polish the water? or will this be enough filtration to keep the water clear?

thanx


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

G-Man said:


> By the way, what size bio balls did you use? I have found 1" and 1.5". I haven't seen these before, so I don't know the size difference.


I'm using the 1" size


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

ictoae said:


> I intend to have this as my only filtration with 2 siphons 1 low and 1 high in the tank. will the siphons draw enough water to suck up the solids that my jets push to them? Will I need to run another filter to polish the water? or will this be enough filtration to keep the water clear?
> 
> thanx


The siphons will of course put suck up the same amount of water as your pump puts out. I think that 450GPH will do the trick. I would have the upper siphon be an overflow not a siphon so it will get the surface stuff.

If you like your water polished crystal clear you might want another filter. In my setups they keep the water very clean, but not polished. I have an HOT magnum that I will run occasionally to polish it up. Usually this is just if I get an green water algae bloom. I have several tanks and only one HOT magnum that I rotate around to the tank that needs it. Generally 24 hrs of polishing makes the water clear for quite some time.


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## ictoae (May 17, 2008)

thanx for the reply. I've been thinking about it and I'm considering sticking the following in my sump. My heater of course and possibly one of these 
self contained 9W UV sterilizers that Petsmart sells. 
I'm trying to keep as little equipment in the tank as possible since it is such a small tank. Now I guess I just need to find some way to hook up a polishing type filter in the small volume of water in my sump. Actually, thanx again for the advice. I'll just let the sump do it's job and see how clean the water stays before I worry about another filter.


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## como1103 (Feb 3, 2008)

I was going to build one just like this, but found a pre-built sump on craigslist real cheap... I only have 1 question though.
It doesn't have any prefilter pad on top of the bio-balls. I was thinking of using just some of the white cloth batting used for making blankets (got from Walmart in the fabric dept.) Would this work OK???

I would think it should be fine, but just want to make sure.


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## MightyM (May 15, 2004)

what happens if theres a power out and your not home?


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

MightyM said:


> what happens if theres a power out and your not home?


Why would that be a problem?


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

[/quote]If you like your water polished crystal clear you might want another filter. In my setups they keep the water very clean, but not polished. I have an HOT magnum that I will run occasionally to polish it up. Usually this is just if I get an green water algae bloom. I have several tanks and only one HOT magnum that I rotate around to the tank that needs it. Generally 24 hrs of polishing makes the water clear for quite some time.[/quote]

Just a silly question.
What do you mean by polish the water?
Thanks


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

Normal filtering only cleans the water mechanically for fairly large detritus, or at least large compared to the molecular scale anyways. Most filtering pads will catch junk that is in 100-200 microns in diameter or larger. This is seperate from the biological filtration that is done by the bacterial. Filters materials are made in this range because filters that have smaller than 100 microns require a lot more maintenance becasue since they catch smaller detrius they clog much much faster.

A polishing filter will filter the water down to a micron or two. This really clears up the water but I've found that I can only run the filter for 5 days without cleaning the filter which takes time and must be done with bleach.


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

ictoae said:


> so, I'm going to be building one of the smaller of these and stashing it under my 35g. the question I have is, will a mag drive 7 on the return line be strong enough to power 3 UGJs. The flow charts say that at 4 ft head height it has a flow of 450gph.


I would not have the water return through the USJ system. Just buy another pump to power the USJ's. Then just have the return pump use a spray bar at the top and that will create your surface agitation. Though people will say "well you can drill a small hole by the waterline as a siphon break" or "you can install check valves" but the problem with either of those as that the hole can clog and the gate on the check valve can get stuck open.

So if the power went out and either of those scenarios happened your whole tank would drain because it would suck all the water right out because the returns are at the bottom of the tank. It would then in turn spill over the top of your sump and on to the floor. So you would come home and find your room flooded and your fish dead.

That is what prompted this comment I am sure.


MightyM said:


> what happens if theres a power out and your not home?


So just save yourself the headache and get another pump to run the USJ system. I can link you to an inexpensive pump that can power a 3 jet system.

*Tannable* have you considered putting a cover over the tank and bucket to keep dust and other stuff from getting inside the sumps? A tight fitting cover will also help cut down on evaporation.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I think that as long as you have a decent size hole, not a pinhole at the top of a ugj pipe you have little danger of it siphoning everything out. I don't have ugj, but I do have a return pipe that goes about 4 inches into the tank. I have a 3/16" hole at the top and it always stops at that level.

for covers, I do have bucket lids with holes cut into them on my sumps, I just didnt' picture them. I am considering building some kind of cover for the half of the sump that is exposed. I may just get a piece of glass cut. I'm not so much worried about dust but evaporation is an issue. I have no idea how much evaporation occurs on my 150 as it has a top-off system. I do have to add 2 galons every 6 days to my 55 and I think 90% of the loss is in the sump since I have all glass tops with the plastic strip cut out only where needed for returns and overflows.


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## bigd1634 (May 20, 2008)

I have a 92 gallon corner tank and was wondering which size filter would work for this tank. the smaller 2 gallon buckets with the 10 gallon tank, or the 5 gallon buckets with the 29 gallon tank.


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## Steak Taco (May 18, 2008)

> I have a 92 gallon corner tank and was wondering which size filter would work for this tank. the smaller 2 gallon buckets with the 10 gallon tank, or the 5 gallon buckets with the 29 gallon tank.


I would go with the bigger one. You can even fit two 5 gallon buckets in the 29 gallon if you want a little extra.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

Agreed, I would go with the large.


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## bigd1634 (May 20, 2008)

I am using your filter system in my new tank, but my drip tray is not holding water like it should. Any water that goes into it filters through quickly and into the pot scrubbers below. My over flow is rated at 600 gph, and I have a mag 7 return pump. I was wondering if I may have put to manny holes in the drip tray? Also it is not a steady flow of water from the tank. The flow has some air in it for some reason.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

Your hole are too many or too large. I start with what is way too few and run the pump then add more holes slowly until I get the desired rate. Since you cant undrill holes, I'd get a new bucket and start a new drip tray using this method.


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## gusto (Jan 7, 2003)

this is a great idea, is it ok if the bioballs sit in the water or should the water just pass through them. My sumps water level is kinda high and I think some of the bioballs will be submerged in water.

Thanks


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

The design of bioballs is for them not to be in the water so you have lots of air and water exposed to the bacteria that lives on them. With that being said, they still provide good surface area when submerged, they just don't perform optimally when submerged. If most of them are not submerged, and a couple inches at the bottom are submerged, you still end up with a pretty darn good bio filter.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

This is a dumb question, but I am still learning about the concept of sumps and wet/dry filters. If you were to use more than one bucket would you use them in parallel? Or would you have the output of one flow to the input of the other?

Also, I know this has already been asked, but when you say its quiet - how quiet are we talking about? That was originally what turned me off to using a sump, but now I think I regret that decision. I know firsthand everyone has different threshold for loud, so for calibration I have three Rio 2100 pumps in my tank for the UGJ system, and I think they are loud (at least to me). Would the bucket setup be louder than those pumps?


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I would not have one dump into another. I have seen someone on this forum use two of the bucket design here in the same sump, two different overflows each went into their own bucket.

Mine are pretty quiet, I can hear the output more than the input. The main source of noise is for me was not the buckets, but rather the overflow box. I overcame this by putting rolled up piece of cross-stitching plastic in the overflow to keep the water from gurgling.

I have this design in two tanks, one is built into the wall and the separation of the wall keeps it quiet so the little splashing you hear from the water hitting the prefilter isn't relevant. On the one in my office I put a bulkhead fitting on a bucket lid and snapped the bucket shut. This eliminated the noise. I suspect each installation would have its own level of noise, but so far I haven't found a noise I couldn't eliminate.


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## Steak Taco (May 18, 2008)

I have two of tannable bucket idea side by side. Here is a pic for you. I think I'm going to try picking up a couple lids and seal it like tannable said to make it so I can't hear the water splashing. I seem to get a lot of noise from my furthest DIY overflow and hopefully will be changing that soon because I really like the sump but would like it a little quieter.


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## jimgiven (Apr 24, 2008)

Steak....nice adaptation of the Tannable system. Could you tell us a little about your setup? Tank size, sump size, pump, pipe setup etc....looks very clean.

Jim


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## Mandalawi (Apr 24, 2005)

The 29 Gal sump would obviously be the choice if i tried it for my 90 Gal.. Would it still be beneficial or would you recommend still having the twin AC 500's running on it? Or should your design be able to handle the load on it's own? Basically it's a non-over crowded Hap/Peacock tank. All are juvies now.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I have my 29 version on a 150 as the only filter. Once a month I run a micron filter for a day or two just to polish the water, but I never have any ammonia or nitrites.


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## gusto (Jan 7, 2003)

Hello, 
I'm planning on setting up one of these on a 150, I will probably use a dual bucket setup, my question is I have 2 1" overflows will a mag 18(1800 gph) return pump be to much flow, should I run a smaller pump, also how is maintenance on these. how often do you change the pads and how often do you rinse the bioballs.

Thanks Gus


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

gusto said:


> Hello,
> I'm planning on setting up one of these on a 150, I will probably use a dual bucket setup, my question is I have 2 1" overflows will a mag 18(1800 gph) return pump be to much flow, should I run a smaller pump, also how is maintenance on these. how often do you change the pads and how often do you rinse the bioballs.
> 
> Thanks Gus


It depends on how many feet of head there will be on the pump. The mag18 pumps 1800gph at 1 foot of head and roughly 1300-1400gph at 4'. Foot of head depends on how tall the tank is, how tall the stand is, and the placement of the pump in relation to those. A 1" overflow supposedly can drain 600gph so 2 would theoretically drain 1200gph.

You can always put a ball valve on the return line and throttle back the flow if it is too much for the overflows to handle.

You really don't have to rinse bio-balls after installation. You put filter pads or other types of media on top of the bio-balls which collects all the debris and detritus. You then rinse those out instead. Determining how often to rinse the pads is up to you and how fast they get clogged. Always rinse filter pads with tank water from a water change never use tap water.


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## gusto (Jan 7, 2003)

actually, I currently run a mag18 with my overflows but it's for a sump for a saltwater tank and it runs fine, I just wasn't sure if it will be too much for a trickle affect, of course I would love to run a smaller pump for less electricity and less heat in the tank.

Thanks


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

gusto said:


> actually, I currently run a mag18 with my overflows but it's for a sump for a saltwater tank and it runs fine, I just wasn't sure if it will be too much for a trickle affect, of course I would love to run a smaller pump for less electricity and less heat in the tank.
> 
> Thanks


You can run whatever pump you want. It all comes down to how much hourly turnover rate you want on the tank. You could run a mag12 or other quality pumps.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I run a mag 12 on my 150 and it deems to do the trick just fine


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## Mandalawi (Apr 24, 2005)

Next question as i get ready to take on this design as my first sump. Tannable is your tank already plumbed with overflows or did you do a diy setup there also. I'm tossed between some of the diy skimmers i've seen and or different types of diy overflows.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I've got three different setups with overflows. My 150 has dual built in overflows. My 135 I am using an overflow box. On my breeder/hospital setup with 2 tanks on 1 sump, I have DIY PVC overflows.


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## Mandalawi (Apr 24, 2005)

Great, thanks. Now that i've been researching all morning. What are your impressions of the pvc variety? Can you paint them i.e. Black to match a background? As far as being quiet? (tank is in the t.v. room so i would he hoping it's quieter than twin AC 500's).


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

My PVC's are very quiet. I don't paint them black because they are in my fishroom. I think painting would be more trouble than it is worth, I'd just use ABS (which is black).


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## Mandalawi (Apr 24, 2005)

Sweet, thanks. I just did some measuring though and i can't fit a 29 gal. under my 90 without breaking the 90 down and then dropping the 29 in from the top.  I could fit a 20 gal. high in though. For a 90 Gal tank do you think that would be worth it though?


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## Mandalawi (Apr 24, 2005)

doh!


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## Mandalawi (Apr 24, 2005)

And again.....


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## gusto (Jan 7, 2003)

Now I started making one and I have a couple of questions, now I use 1" plastic hose for my overflows, I'm just worried they might slip out, can I put a lid on the bucket and drill a hole to put the hose through, also when I cut the 1 1/2 off the bucket and placed it in the bucket there was a good 1/2 all around between the wall of the bucket and the piece I cut, will a lot of stuff get past that and end up on the bottom of the sump


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