# Stains on inside glass?



## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

Just recently I began to notice some stains the glass of my 125G. After looking at it, they appear to be on the inside. I tried scrubbing it with one of those blue handle algae sponges to no avail.

I don't recall these stains being there when I set the tank up. I've only noticed them after I did an Ich treatment with Kordon's Rid-Ich. Could it have stained the glass?! :-?

Now I know some tricks are vinegar and water however what makes this especially hard is that I have fish in the tank! Are there any methods I can try in regards to cleaning the tank with fish in it?

Like I said, I've already tried a sponge and even one of those flat edged razors. I did not notice much improvement. Are there any methods that I can try that would be safe for the fish without having to empty the ENTIRE tank?

Here is what it looks like...










Thanks!


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Not sure...you may have to drain it and clean then rinse....


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

If I was to drain it and empty it, what would be the best method to keep the BB from dying on the sand and rock? In a rubbermaid with power heads agitating the surface? If this is done right, I would not need to recycle the tank, would I?!

If I was to drain the tank an inch or two, would it be harmful to the fish to use vinegar on a cloth and spot clean a test area to make sure it will come off? I would really hate to empty the tank and find out the cleaning tools I have won't do the job or even worse, that it won't come off. Using a cloth to spot clean, the worst I can see happening is a small amount of white vinegar may drip into the 125G. Wouldn't the volume of water dilute that in a heartbeat making it nearly non-existent, thus not affecting the fish?

Thanks!


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

jnick said:


> If I was to drain it and empty it, what would be the best method to keep the BB from dying on the sand and rock? In a rubbermaid with power heads agitating the surface? If this is done right, I would not need to recycle the tank, would I?!
> 
> If I was to drain the tank an inch or two, would it be harmful to the fish to use vinegar on a cloth and spot clean a test area to make sure it will come off? I would really hate to empty the tank and find out the cleaning tools I have won't do the job or even worse, that it won't come off. Using a cloth to spot clean, the worst I can see happening is a small amount of white vinegar may drip into the 125G. Wouldn't the volume of water dilute that in a heartbeat making it nearly non-existent, thus not affecting the fish?
> 
> Thanks!


No need to cycle the tank again....just use large rubbermaid containers with old tank water for fish and rocks. Clean, rinse really well then add new water. Also make sure to keep old tank water in your filters....that is where most of your nitrifying bacteria that is used for conversion actually does its job.


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## GaFishMan1181 (Dec 17, 2008)

i would try and scrap it off with a razor blade first.


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

I just did a ton of research on this. It appears that a new MrClean Magic eraser works extremely well and is completely safe for the inside of an aquarium. This will be my first shot tonight before I try anything crazy! :thumb:


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

jnick said:


> I just did a ton of research on this. It appears that a new MrClean Magic eraser works extremely well and is completely safe for the inside of an aquarium. This will be my first shot tonight before I try anything crazy! :thumb:


 

Are you sure? You can do as the other poster mentioned and try a razorblade...that really didn't cross my mind.


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

GaFishMan1181 said:


> i would try and scrap it off with a razor blade first.


Could definitely be worth a shot. Had similar hard water stains that looked to be embedded in the glass, and tried scrubbing, lots of elbow grease, but in the end it was the trusty razor blade that worked best. Though the magic eraser is very interesting...


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

Here's an update:

Try #1 - Magic Eraser Original...Did nothing for these stains.

Try #2 - Scotch Brite pad...Did nothing for these stains

Try #3 - Emptied about 4" of water and dripped a little white vinegar on the scotch brite; scrubbed HARD on the 4" above water...Did nothing for these stains

Try #4 - Took some baking soda and rubbed it on the scotch brite making a paste like substance. Scrubbed HARD on the 4" above water. At the moment it appeared to have done something. After filling the tank back up it would appear that in the end, it did nothing for these stains.

I had a CHEAP straight edged razor from some Lowes Christmas kit set. It would appear that that did nothing as well, though in one area there was some white flaky stuff coming of. However, I didn't notice the stains disappearing. Would it be worth getting a "real" straight edge scraper (like a QEP 4in) with stainless steel razors? Or if this cheap-o failed so will that?

One thing to note, when using my nail or a scotch brite, if I move it over an area with this stain, I feel roughness. In an area where non exists, the glass is otherwise smooth. Would this lead one to believe it is NOT embedded in the glass but residing on the surface (ie: will come off!)?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

And you don't know where they came from? I know you said you don't recall seeing them there before but are you sure?

I had this problem once with a large saltwater tank and the only thing that even helped was muriatic acid. It still didn't make the tank like new but it helped. If you do go that route then you must drain the tank.

Are there these same stains on the back? Can you flip the tank around? It will be some work obviously but may be worth it. I am not sure what else to tell you to try.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

You might also want to make sure you don't have scale or stain on both sides of the glass for some reason. That would explain having no results when cleaning the inside.

There is an abrasive called barkeepers friend. I don't know the contents. If you go that route, you will probably need to remove everything and wash out the tank before reinstalling everything.

Just be sure not to damage the bacteria in the filter so you don't have to cycle again.


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

Looking at the area I tried cleaning last night, it may appear that the baking soda 'paste' may have cleaned some off. Therefore, today I plan to drain the tank possibly 6-8" and attempt another baking soda wash in a very dense stained area. This will give me a better idea on if it is working or not.

I would just hate to drain the entire tank, try a cleaning solution, have it fail and then having to repeat the process each week trying something different. The ball game changes greatly once fish are populating the tank!


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## Tony B. (Apr 24, 2005)

vann59 said:


> You might also want to make sure you don't have scale or stain on both sides of the glass for some reason. That would explain having no results when cleaning the inside.
> 
> There is an abrasive called barkeepers friend. I don't know the contents. If you go that route, you will probably need to remove everything and wash out the tank before reinstalling everything.
> 
> Just be sure not to damage the bacteria in the filter so you don't have to cycle again.


I just did the Barkeepers Freind on the hard water stains in my 180. Worked GREAT. Looks like a new tank. It was real bad, thought the glass was etched from the hard water.


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

That settles it then. I will be trying Bar Keepers Friend on the tank before I waste any more time with baking soda.

How much of a risk am I taking if I attempt it on a small section with the fish in the tank? My thought was to empty out about 12" of water, create a canopy with a plastic drop cloth like material and painters tape. I would tape it to where all water drips run into the center of the plastic canopy (obviously above the tank water). I'm looking to try it on a small 2x2ish area just to see if it will work before I empty everything. I can even construct a drainage path to where I can have it drain into a bucket (or leave the Aqueon water changer running in the center of the plastic to act as a vacuum, siphoning out the puddled water. I will also be sure to have carbon loaded in the filter in case any water mixture leaks into the tank when I remove this contraption.

Thoughts? The tank is currently housing about 15 peacocks, 100lbs of sand and 60+lbs of rock.

Thanks guys!


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## SobrietyRocks707 (Feb 23, 2012)

jnick said:


> One thing to note, when using my nail or a scotch brite, *if I move it over an area with this stain, I feel roughness. In an area where non exists, the glass is otherwise smooth. *Would this lead one to believe it is NOT embedded in the glass but residing on the surface (ie: will come off!)?


Somehow, something etched your glass. The stain seems (to me) to be In the glass, not on the surface. Otherwise, it would scrape right off.

Did this stain show up after an ich treatment or something? I know my roommate treated for ich and it stained absolutely Everything. The silicone especially.


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

I would drain it, or heavily protect the water from the residue as you mentioned - and if you use the powder version (there is a liquid one as well) I'd be cautious about getting the powder in the water. You'll also (and maybe obviously) need to rinse it. I'm not sure what the other ingredients are, but Bar Keepers Friend contains oxalic acid. Here's a bit on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid

Definitely use gloves as well. I use the stuff on my stainless cookware and cooktop, and it definitely sensitizes my skin, and if I have cuts I would definitely feel the slight sting.

I might have to try it myself on a 45 with slight cloudiness...


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## krfhsf (Dec 25, 2008)

Try some 0000 steelwool.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

Tony B. said:


> Looks like a new tank. It was real bad, thought the glass was etched from the hard water.


I'm glad to hear that worked.

Just to clarify, etching occurs under corrosive water conditions, and scaling and staining occur under the opposite conditions, and is sometimes triggered by some kind of catalyst. Few things can actually etch glass, mostly just certain acids. Of course, scratches are another matter.

I don't know what BKF contains, but they say it has no bleach. I would still be very careful and perhaps ask the manufacturer what it contains first before risking it getting into the tank with fish.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

kenko said:


> I would drain it, or heavily protect the water from the residue as you mentioned - and if you use the powder version (there is a liquid one as well) I'd be cautious about getting the powder in the water. You'll also (and maybe obviously) need to rinse it. I'm not sure what the other ingredients are, but Bar Keepers Friend contains oxalic acid. Here's a bit on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid
> 
> Definitely use gloves as well. I use the stuff on my stainless cookware and cooktop, and it definitely sensitizes my skin, and if I have cuts I would definitely feel the slight sting.
> 
> I might have to try it myself on a 45 with slight cloudiness...


Well then, if it contains oxalic acid I would not use it. I know oxalic acid is used as a stain remover in some industrial applications, but I would not let it in with my fish.


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

Not even if I drained the tank, used it, than thoroughly rinsed?


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

jnick said:


> Not even if I drained the tank, used it, than thoroughly rinsed?


Yes, I meant I would not put it in with my fish. Just clean it really well, and probably use some baking soda to neutralize the acid in the tank before rinsing it out.

But, since you found that the baking soda seemed to help, and after all, it's used to remove stains from teeth, and it's not harmful to the fish, you might want to drain the tank halfway, and use it with that magic eraser to see if you can get results that way and not have to drain it to use the BKF. And, if you do use baking soda to clean it, I suggest you do a serious water change afterward to remove the excess baking soda, since it will gradually escalate the pH if you don't.

If that doesn't work, you can still empty the whole tank and use the BKF.

:thumb:


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## Mike_G (Nov 8, 2011)

krfhsf said:


> Try some 0000 steelwool.


Steel wool scratches glass- even 0000


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

If you do drain the tank and clean....I would turn it around anyways just in case it appears to come off and shows back up after filled back up with water unless the back glass is worse.


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

Unfortunately, the back was painted. Therefore there is no possible way I could turn it around right now. Should this not work, when I get a 3D background I could always check its condition...

I will be away from the tank for a couple of days. Because of this I should have an update on Monday. However, I tried the 0000 steel wool, a brand new razor; no dice.

The baking soda/vinegar mix was rubbed on and left on the glass for 15 minutes. It did not take the stains off, though it looks as though it lightened them a bit. On Wednesday I get the T5 lights. I'm sure I will be able to give a much better gauge on what is working and what isn't under those lights. Unfortunately, if I cannot get this off, I will most likely have to return the T5s and stick with the LEDs for now. With a wedding to save for, there's no way I can purchase a new 125G right now.

Thanks again to the suggestions. I will keep you guys updated.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

jnick said:


> The baking soda/vinegar mix was rubbed on and left on the glass for 15 minutes. It did not take the stains off, though it looks as though it lightened them a bit. On Wednesday I get the T5 lights. I'm sure I will be able to give a much better gauge on what is working and what isn't under those lights. Unfortunately, if I cannot get this off, I will most likely have to return the T5s and stick with the LEDs for now.


FIY, the baking soda and vinegar work against one another, so I would not use them together. The baking soda has a gentle abrasive action, but if you use the vinegar, the crystals dissolve and will not work well. Vinegar on the other hand is an acid and has cleaning qualities of its own, but will be neutralized by the baking soda. So I would only use them separately.

The t5 lights are a great upgrade. I would not return them even if you don't get the glass cleaned right away. The fish and whole tank will look better with good lighting. Baking soda with minimal water might give you the scrubbing power you need.

Here's another possibility. As someone else said, steel wool can scratch, but there are stainless steel kitchen scrubs which look like a continuous tiny curly steel ribbon made on a lathe, and they are great for cleaning plates and pans etc. I don't know if they would scratch glass, but I think they would be less likely than the steel wool to scratch, and they are darn good for removing stuff dried on the dishes.

I found a four pack at my local Ace hardware in the dollar section.

Good luck

:fish:


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## beachtan (Sep 25, 2008)

i took down a 30gal a few months ago that someone had given me for the same reason. The glass was slightly cloudy looking, almost an oxidized look. Unsure what had caused this prior, and nothing I used would fix it either. Its sitting empty right now... what a waste!


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

Did you try Bar Keepers Friend on the 30g?


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## afoctober2 (Apr 7, 2007)

sorry to hear my 90 has stains on it to that won't clean off but when its filled with water you don't see them.


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## BullyBuddies (Jan 4, 2012)

My wife uses a half lemon dipped in baking soda to remove hard water stains from our shower. She just keeps adding the baking soda as needed. She doesnt like synthetic chemicals. Not sure if your situation is too severe, but worth a shot.


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## beachtan (Sep 25, 2008)

october: the cloudiness was worse when the tank was dry, but I thought adding water would void it; it didnt though. 

I tried everything to clean it. it does look like like glass thats been run thru the dishwasher too may times! but not sure what would etch the entire inside glass... you can feel the texture, not smooth like glass but more like scotch tape... the cloudy kind...

i recently saw an informercial for some kind of buffing stuff for the headlights of your car to make them crystal clear again :roll: ... wonder if that would work


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Most headlights these days have plastic lenses which is what the product is designed for. Toothpaste or rubbing compound will have the same effect but won't do anything for glass.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

beachtan said:


> october: the cloudiness was worse when the tank was dry, but I thought adding water would void it; it didnt though.
> 
> I tried everything to clean it. it does look like like glass thats been run thru the dishwasher too may times! but not sure what would etch the entire inside glass... you can feel the texture, not smooth like glass but more like scotch tape... the cloudy kind...
> 
> i recently saw an informercial for some kind of buffing stuff for the headlights of your car to make them crystal clear again :roll: ... wonder if that would work


What you're describing is a scale not etching, so it can be cleaned.


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

Tomorrow I will be breaking down the tank and going at it with BKF. I did a test run on a glass canopy on my 55G which had some staining and that is no crystal clear! I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much but I do have my fingers crossed! I'll keep you posted.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

Another thing that I didn't think to mention is CLR. It is specifically for removing a calcium scale, and works well in the bathroom, and since you're draining the tank, you might give it a try. Just rinse everything well.


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## jnick (Aug 17, 2011)

The tank is back up and running and has been doing great since Saturday seeing as I dowsed it with a whole bunch of cleaning chemicals! Well, only three really 

I ran through multiple passes with the BKF. After that, I hit it with two passes of CLR. Finally, I neutralized everything with Vinegar and rinsed, rinsed, rinsed!!

The stains are still there. However, I did make a pretty decent dent in them. They are much 'lighter' than before, as if I sanded it down and now it is more opaque. After filling the tank up, even with the T5HOs, the stains no longer stand out as much as they did. If it stays this way and does not get any worse, I'll be a happy camper. However, should the stains come back over time, I will be grabbing a new 125G by the end of the summer!

So far, I'd consider it a success. Thank you everyone for your help!


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

Glad to hear a good report

:thumb:


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## Jayse (Feb 15, 2012)

Good to hear. If it does come back, there is someone on here that did a HUGE build, I believe it is in the DIY background section. He has about 19 pages on the build, but he had some film or something on his glass. If I remember correctly he used something like a jewelers paste or something on a buffing pad either attached to a drill or a buffer.


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## Jayse (Feb 15, 2012)

Well just great! While starting to pull my silicone seals on my tank, I had a flashlight going examining. With this direct light I noticed the WHOLE tank has a film similar to what you showed. I have already broke this tank down and washed with vinegar/ water solution previously. I have tried scraping with a razor... nothing, tried more vinegar solution...nothing, tried a dab of windex (yes I know) in a spot...nothing, CLR in a spot...nothing! I don't feel anything rough. Actually it feels really smooth, almost slick, more than the outside of the tank. The tank has had well water in it from me and previous owner, beyond that I do not know.

Any suggestions??

And where can you find this Barkeepers Friend? What's the estimated price for how much (paste). Thanks

Oh.... and the hazy film goes away with liquid on it, but once the liquid dries or is wiped it comes back, almost like an oxidation


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

Sometimes the scale may not be visible when the tank is full. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about it. BKF is a kitchen cleaning product, and you shouldn't have trouble finding it.


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## Jayse (Feb 15, 2012)

As far as I can remember, I couldn't see anything when it was filled, if I did.. It wasn't much. I tried rubbing with my finger with a latex glove on... almost looks like it leaves a smudge, but it still won't come off.

I guess I'll continue with my work on the seals. I still have to paint a black background on so we'll see how it looks with that and water in it. If it's bad I guess I'll look for this BFK stuff. I can see it when shining a light at it, so hopefully it won't show up with trying to take pics of new tank setup. Thanks for the advice.


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## Mike_G (Nov 8, 2011)

Jayse said:


> Good to hear. If it does come back, there is someone on here that did a HUGE build, I believe it is in the DIY background section. He has about 19 pages on the build, but he had some film or something on his glass. If I remember correctly he used something like a jewelers paste or something on a buffing pad either attached to a drill or a buffer.


Probably cerium oxide slurry on a felt buffing wheel- that's how you polish glass.

Eastwood sells a kit for polishing car windshields that should work on aquariums as well.


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## Jayse (Feb 15, 2012)

Mike_G said:


> Jayse said:
> 
> 
> > Good to hear. If it does come back, there is someone on here that did a HUGE build, I believe it is in the DIY background section. He has about 19 pages on the build, but he had some film or something on his glass. If I remember correctly he used something like a jewelers paste or something on a buffing pad either attached to a drill or a buffer.
> ...


Ya know, without looking through his thread... I believe that was exactly the stuff!


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## Jayse (Feb 15, 2012)

Don't know if this is against forum rules for posting this video link from youtube or not. I was searching some info on aquariums and found this video someone added to their page. It shows a sample test on glass for 4 different cleaners including vinegar, a CLR type cleaner, and Barkeepers friend. I've never heard of this stuff until this thread. Figured some others might find this info/ test useful with hard water stains

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_845B2PU ... 6B2376D26D


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## liegelr (Dec 11, 2008)

I've got similar stains in my tank but never tried to get rid of them, yet.

Similar to the last link though, I have had hard-water stains on glass shower doors...and have seen modest improvements with a number of acidic cleaners and some aggressive scrubbing. It's a SLOW process, but it does make it somewhat better.

If you google "cleaning hard water stains off glass shower doors," or something like that, there's quite a few results and opinions that might help.


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## Jayse (Feb 15, 2012)

Well my tank I'm working on has gos some staining from hard water all over it. Nothing will take it off. I've just redone my silicone seals and you can see the difference in where the silicone doesn't match where the old one was (not to mention it just looks real hazy). So I went and got me some of this BKF today from the store. Will be trying it out and will take before and after pics. From what another poster said and that video show, it should do the trick.


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