# fish just shipped in, nitrites exteme Help!!



## schaumie2222 (Oct 28, 2004)

My cycle finished 5 days ago and have ever since been doing 25% water changes. Yesterday there was a nitrite spike of less than .5ppm, but today the reading is at 2 ppm. I have added a 5x dose of Prime and the 11 frontosa I got shipped in today are still in the shipping bags. What should i do?


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## Aquanist (Dec 29, 2007)

Hard to say what to do with those frontosa - maybe try to relocate them somewhere for a while.

And your tank IS NOT cycled if there's any nitrite there. Keep feeding the tank and just wait it out and then introduce the fish when your nitrite stays 0 even with larger dose of ammonia per gallon.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

double check your process for dechlorination. i would guess those 25% water changes compromised your cycle balance.
i would add the frontosa to the tank. their shipping baggies must be crashing, and 'prime' has a decent reputation for detoxification of nitrite. continue with prime and water changes until nitrates confirm the cycle is reestablished.
 IMHO, 11 frontosa is too much fish for a new tank cycle. i would have established the tank with other fish, allowing the tank to age out (prove itself capable of producing nitrates with no spikes) for a couple months, before buying a colony of anything for keeps.


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## schaumie2222 (Oct 28, 2004)

well I have nowhere else for them to go so there in now... up until yesterday, the tank showed every sign of being cycled.... will prime eliminate nitrite from showing up on a test or it will still be there just not as toxic?


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

> My cycle finished 5 days ago


did you kept feeding the tank ammonia during these last five days



schaumie2222 said:


> up until yesterday, the tank showed every sign of being cycled....


can you explain what you mean. What signs did you getthat told you it was done? Also how many fronts



> will prime eliminate nitrite from showing up on a test or it will still be there just not as toxic?


It will still show on tests.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> will prime eliminate nitrite from showing up on a test or it will still be there just not as toxic


It'll still show up, but supposedly non-toxic. No way to measure that though. 25% water changes 
shouldn't have caused this.

Can you give some history on how you cycled?

Also, what type of filtration and any maintenance that you've done to this point?

I've stocked fully with fishless cycling, but you really have to be careful and there are risks. So, there is 
some wisdom in making a tank prove itself before adding a group of expensive fish if you've not done 
this before. Depends on your risk aversion level. But, you're here now, so you just have to ride it out.

Just get the fish in the tank, and monitor both ammonia and nitrite. If you truly were fully cycled, then the 
setback should be brief, but more info is needed before saying for sure.


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## schaumie2222 (Oct 28, 2004)

MalawiLover said:


> > My cycle finished 5 days ago
> 
> 
> did you kept feeding the tank ammonia during these last five days
> ...


can you explain what you mean. What signs did you getthat told you it was done? Also how many fronts

ammonia 0 ppm 24 hours after adding, 0 nitrites, nitrates 40ppm or so, each day

there is 11 fronts


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## schaumie2222 (Oct 28, 2004)

prov356 said:


> > will prime eliminate nitrite from showing up on a test or it will still be there just not as toxic
> 
> 
> It'll still show up, but supposedly non-toxic. No way to measure that though. 25% water changes
> ...


maintained 3-4 ppm ammonia till ammonia 0 ppm in 24 hours, maintained 1-2 ppm till nitrite 0 ppm in 24 hours, 50% first water change, 25% water changes daily

40 gallon sump- 15 gallons bio balls, used media from other 90 g tank to seed filter


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> maintained 3-4 ppm ammonia till ammonia 0 ppm in 24 hours, maintained 1-2 ppm till nitrite 0 ppm in 24 hours


I know some methods recommend cutting it in half, but never made sense to me. I would have 
continued with the 3-4ppm. If one wanted to cycle to 1-2ppm, then that's what one should start with.

But, the drop didn't cause the spike in nitrite.



> 50% first water change, 25% water changes daily


50% is borderline high for a newly cycled tank. Again, I know some recommend that, but I've seen large 
water changes cause setbacks. 25% daily is good.



> 40 gallon sump- 15 gallons bio balls, used media from other 90 g tank to seed filter


No problems here. I'll assume the bioballs haven't been stirred or disrupted in any manner.

if your ammonia stays at 0, then that's a good sign. Supposedly ammonia is more lethal, but both 
can be. Keep going with the water changes and keep using the Prime per directions. If it were me, 
I'd avoid feeding for a couple of days, and see if the spike will drop. Ammonia and nitrite will do a lot 
more harm than missing a few meals. It's usually a good idea to feed new arrivals lightly anyway.

Keep us posted and let us know if there's anything else that you can think of that would've disrupted 
your nitrifying bacteria. Something obviously did. We may never know what. The important thing is 
to get the ship righted.


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## schaumie2222 (Oct 28, 2004)

ok i will keep an eye on it and if I can think of anything then ill let you know. should i keep going with the prime at 5x dose or just normal dose per water change?


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

prov356 said:


> I know some methods recommend cutting it in half, but never made sense to me.


I always thought it was because the the bacteria that Nitrite in Nitrate did not do well in high ammonia conditions so backing off the ammonia would still feed the ammonia bateria, but wouldn't burn out nitrite converting ones.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

MalawiLover said:


> prov356 said:
> 
> 
> > I know some methods recommend cutting it in half, but never made sense to me.
> ...


That may be the theory, but I don' t think it's based on any studies. Just someone's educated guess and 
method. I think it came about more out of frustration over the nitrite portion taking so long. Dropping 
ammonia dose will slow the production of nitrite, so could theoretically speed things up by a day or so. 
But, if all of the other theories are correct, then you've just cut the bacteria colony that you've built in half 
too, since you've cut their food source in half. At the end of the day, you're cycled to 1-2ppm, even though 
you started with 3-4ppm. So, again, i just don't see the point in finishing at a different level than what you 
started. if nitrite levels overwhelm the nitrite converters (and I doubt they do) then just dilute with a 
water change.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

maybe you raised the wrong bacterias...nitrospira's nitrifying activities are inhibited in water rich with ammonia, as well as water low in ph. here's a fun read: http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/64/1/258


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## smitty (May 7, 2004)

You should not have any problem introducing them in the tank as long as you keep the water moving. Also stop the daily water changes because any biological you have you are disturbing. Part of the reason for the problem is your weak biological.


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## schaumie2222 (Oct 28, 2004)

hmm conflicting ideas, water changes daily or no water changes?


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## schaumie2222 (Oct 28, 2004)

i just went out and looked at the fish again and they are hanging out near the bottom and it LOOKS like they are breathing really fast but i dont know if its becasue the little guys are swimming against the current down there which is really strong or its the nitrite.... they are not at the top gasping though there all at bottom

should I add any salt to the water, only stuff I have is instant ocean? i was reading that I could add a teaspoon per gallon of water to help reduce stress and improve gill function


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

i would cut down any excessive current, increase aeration if surface is calm, and keep up with daily 25% water changes. i would not add anything new, other than water, until the cycle issue is settled. feeding is up to you, but i would not be surprised to see them loose appetite.


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## schaumie2222 (Oct 28, 2004)

the surface isnt calm but the current is from the return pumps out of the sump running across the top of the water and then down the sides


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Keep up with the water changes. They won't hurt the cycle. Stopping the water changes will allow the 
nitrite to rise and kill the fish.

Don't overreact and start adding things. Forget the salt and adding anything besides what you 
already are. You're doing all you can. Keep testing the water and do whatever water changes are 
necessary to keep nitrites down. Keep adding the Prime as well. Keep feeding down, and don't 
touch the filters. Ride it out. It's common to want to add something or do something more, but don't 
fall into that. Your local fish store will be happy to sell you 'stuff' to add, but don't do it.

A common sign of nitrite poisoning is gasping at the surface. Nitrite inhibits the fish's ability to carry 
oxygen in the blood. The can literally suffocate in oxygen rich water.

Some links:

Salt in the aquarium Scroll down to the end of the page to see what he says about using salt to detox nitrite.

Nitrite toxicity


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## smitty (May 7, 2004)

Space the water change to about 3-4 days apart. While monitoring your nitrate levels. Also if you are cleaning the gravel and filters at the same time you need to stop. Clean one or the other. Also when cleaning your filter only clean them in aquarium water that you reserve in a bucket. Fresh water will kill the bacteria


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## schaumie2222 (Oct 28, 2004)

came home from work today to find nitrite at .25 ppm, significantly lower than yesterday... going to do a 25% water change and hope it never happens again.... weird


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

schaumie2222 said:


> came home from work today to find nitrite at .25 ppm, significantly lower than yesterday... going to do a 25% water change and hope it never happens again.... weird


I think you're just about past it. I've seen this when the biofiltration is disrupted on a newly cycled tank. 
Brief few days of a nitrite spike. In my case, it was triggered by a large water change of about 80%.

Good luck with it. Fish should be pretty much out of danger at that level.


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## non_compliance (Dec 4, 2008)

if you're down to .25 ppm, you should be fine. I had a tank that i inherited that was up over .5 ppm when I got it... I had to get the parameters whipped into shape so I could move it home... took about 2 weeks, but the fish were fine. If you're at .25, you should be fine as long as you keep up with the 25% water changes and adding prime.

Good luck!


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

are you also testing for trace ammonia? IME, when the cycle completes, nitrite falls to zero immediately.


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