# Synodontis Petricola



## Kimmah (Dec 26, 2011)

Has anyone had any luck keeping Synodontis Petricola with mbuna? I have Maingano, Electric yellow, Cynotilapia Afra and Labeotropheus Trewavasae. They are a lot of money here in Australia and I don't want to buy one and it end up being killed.


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

Not an expert but I have read that they do better in groups of 5 or 6.. A solo one probably won't be 'happy'.


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## kenko (Jan 19, 2012)

Yes, that is true about the groups. You'll find they "play" well together in groups. Though I've kept them alone and pairs as well, and were perfectly fine - but in a group, activity definitely goes up.
And your fish aren't huge, so they will fit right in size-wise. They are a tough fish generally.

And lastly, many times the lucipinnis is mislabeled as petricola, so be aware, as the petricola will get an inch larger. To make things more confusing, some brainiac had called the lucipinnis "dwarf petricola" - so, similar yes, but not the same.


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## typo (Feb 9, 2011)

i have six and they are awesome! its very interesting watching their interactions. they are VERY playful. generally cichlids ignore the syno's and vise versa.


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

typo said:


> i have six and they are awesome! its very interesting watching their interactions. they are VERY playful. generally cichlids ignore the syno's and vise versa.


Except fry  I've heard they count them as tasty snacks!


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## typo (Feb 9, 2011)

very true, but the cichlids eat those too.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I've never had a problem keeping Synodontis lucipinnis, petricola or multipunctatus with any African.


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## Shahlvah (Dec 28, 2011)

I have 9 Synodontis lucipinnis with my mbunas, they are growing fine, the mbunas don't seem to care about them and the lucipinnis are very active going in and out of the caves in the rocks, they even get a match with the mbunas when I give them alga wafers that the lucipinnis absolutely love. Lucipinnis will be the smallet of all the mentioned synodontis, they grow up to 4 inches total.
I don't think you will have any trouble with any of them and your mbunas.
I have one who's name is "George" (like curious George the monkey) because he always has to be in all the action...


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## Kimmah (Dec 26, 2011)

They're pretty expensive here in Australia so I think I might get 3 of them so they have a bit of company and it won't break the budget too much.


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## gliebig (Oct 1, 2010)

I have 3 petricola and love them. They are very active, much unlike my multipunctatus. They are stinkers.


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

DJR, Is there much difference in your experience between a group of Lucipinnis versus a group of Petricola? I ask because I have found a cheap source of Petricola whereas Lucipinnis, the lowest I could find cost at least double. For the record, I'm all about economising where i can  otherwise I'd just go to the Texas guy and get some njassae ($45 each I think not!)


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have never found true petricola in the US except 7 years ago when I bought my first group. They came from a hobbyist who sold them to my LFS (identity unknown) who lost his breeders.

I have lots of lucipinnis but only one petricola survivor (fish accident). I do not find lucipinnis to be more expensive than petricola. What irks me is when lucipinnis are sold as petricola which is 99% of the time IME.

PM me if you are willing to share your source of true petricola, and thanks :thumb:


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> I have never found true petricola in the US except 7 years ago when I bought my first group. They came from a hobbyist who sold them to my LFS (identity unknown) who lost his breeders.
> 
> I have lots of lucipinnis but only one petricola survivor (fish accident). I do not find lucipinnis to be more expensive than petricola. What irks me is when lucipinnis are sold as petricola which is 99% of the time IME.
> 
> PM me if you are willing to share your source of true petricola, and thanks :thumb:


Intriguing! Actually I wouldn't know a true petricola if it jumped up and bit me, I PM'd you with the source I found, I'll be interested in your thoughts


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## Shahlvah (Dec 28, 2011)

when I got my lucipinis they were minuscules to said the least, .75??? if that, I thought they were going to get eaten, for real, then they start eating, and growing, now they are handsome and big (well, some how big, lucipinis size) I remember that I thought that one of them was not a lucipinis because he was bigger than the others, and he has a nice tint of "red", while te others are more grey in color, the red one is "George, now all look very similar, 'George still kind of red, but the are about the same size. the multipunctatus I have seen are bigger and have a "silver tone in their bodies, I am not saying that all look the same, but those that I have seen.


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## Kimmah (Dec 26, 2011)

Well I'm please to announce that I have bought 3. Unfortunately my husband almost had a fit when I told him "no, it's not $70 for 3, they are $70 each!!!" Hahaha, I did tell him, typical male didn't listen.


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## Corrupted (Jan 31, 2012)

wow...that is a lot. I got mine online a few days ago for $10 each.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Then they will be Synodontis lucipinnis. Synodontis lucippinis is often (even usually) sold as petricola. It was exported and is still bred under that name.

I do not think anyone is breeding petricola. Many claim to be but when you check em out. Yep another waiste of time.

You can get true WC petricola here in the UK but they cost Ã‚Â£28 each.
No young I have seen are true petricola though I have seen many many sold that way.

Its not hard to tell the difference.

petricola









lucipinnis









Both do fine as community fish though they do bother shellys and eat young.

lucipinnis will breed for you. Sadly petricola seems to need injecting to get it to breed in captivity.

If someone is now breeding real petricola I would love to see it. :wink:


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## JAyliffe (Feb 29, 2012)

Corrupted said:


> wow...that is a lot. I got mine online a few days ago for $10 each.


Could you PM me and let me know where you got yours, I am looking for some too, thanks


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## Shahlvah (Dec 28, 2011)

I love that!!!.....but $70.00 WOW, that is pricey girl friend!!! I paid $14.99 for each one of mine....they were minusculous, but lucipinis non the less...


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## Kimmah (Dec 26, 2011)

I've hunted around a few LFS for the best price but they ranged from $70-$80 so hopefully I will get a real petricola


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

From the LFS I pay around $30 for a tiny baby. $60-$70 for a more mature fish. And again, I have not seen petricola in the US so these are lucipinnis prices.

You can get them from hobbyists for less.


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## marvo (Nov 24, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> I've never had a problem keeping Synodontis lucipinnis, petricola or multipunctatus with any African.


 Agree


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## magic10 (Feb 1, 2012)

congrads..keep a eye on them if they start breeding..they will go in and scoop up your mbuna eggs or fry and split their eggs into your mbunas eggs..so your female mbuna will be carrying hers and the Synodontis Petricola..you will be stocked when your female mbuna splits and she splits some catfish out!! great fish through. i had 5 when i had my breeding mbuna tank going but only kept 1 when i which to an all male mbuna tank


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

magic10 said:


> congrads..keep a eye on them if they start breeding..they will go in and scoop up your mbuna eggs or fry and split their eggs into your mbunas eggs..so your female mbuna will be carrying hers and the Synodontis Petricola..you will be stocked when your female mbuna splits and she splits some catfish out!! great fish through. i had 5 when i had my breeding mbuna tank going but only kept 1 when i which to an all male mbuna tank


Nope Synodontis lucipinnis are egg scatterers.
And have very small eggs.
They can not "Cuckoo" Mbuna like that.
Only thing they may do is scatter eggs over shells.
The young catfish eat cichlid shelldweller young and eggs while being looked after by shelly cichlid adults. Bless em.

Real petricola, no one seems to know how that one breeds because no one breeds them.

(If it was just a case of keeping them with breeding Mbuna, then I am sure we would have cracked it. Like with Synodontis multipunctata).

All the best James


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## theoryguru (Oct 11, 2011)

Kimmah said:


> Well I'm please to announce that I have bought 3. Unfortunately my husband almost had a fit when I told him "no, it's not $70 for 3, they are $70 each!!!" Hahaha, I did tell him, typical male didn't listen.


I have a lone syno. multipunctus.. in searching out some friends for her I came across someone a breeding group 2M 5F for $150 - undecided whether I should commit.. but $70 a pop? I just have to sell 2 and looks like I'll make my $ back :thumb:


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## Kimmah (Dec 26, 2011)

The three fish I've ordered are about 3cm long (1.2inches for you Americans) so only little fish at the moment. Will tell you how cute they are when I pick them up.


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## typo (Feb 9, 2011)

i have true syn. petricola. they are WC and came from old world exotic fish.


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## eeztropheus (Jan 10, 2010)

@24Tropheus

I bought these as petricola from a local hobbyist (a true lake tang guy) who breeds them. Are they in fact lucipinnis? The spots on the head look more petricola, the spots on the body look more lucipinnis...

@ everyone else 
Sorry you all have to pay through the nose... I paid $30 for 7.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Well as I have never seen any real baby Synodontis petricola it is very hard for me to say what those would look like.
My guess is it is another batch of very nice Synodontis lucipinnis. As yet I can see nothing that says they are not lucipinnis. Time will tell for sure.

Can you can get a look/photo of the breeders?

Erm I guess I should admit when I breed these I look to charge Ã‚Â£7.50 each at 11/2" Ã‚Â£5 each at 1".

I think some of you guys are getting em cheap and some are getting em expensive.

Here bizzarly you can pay up to Ã‚Â£50 for lucipinnis sub adults in some shops yet get full adult WC petricola or lucipinnis for about Ã‚Â£28 from good dealer. Euro bred ones are about the same price as mine, about 7 euros each for young but again all seem to turn out to be lucipinnis even though most are sold as petricola.

All the best James


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

typo said:


> i have true syn. petricola. they are WC and came from old world exotic fish.


No offense meant to old world exotic fish or anyone else, but lots of wild caught synodontis are sold as petricola when they are in fact lucipinnis. There has been a long-established practice of identifying any synodontis with the white leading edge of the dorsal as petricola, and before 2007 that was perfectly accurate since that was the only category for the small synos with the white-edged dorsal.

What I have found (again...other respected vendors, I have never dealt with old world) is that they continue with the old practice.

I'd love to buy some but every one I have gotten ID'd at planetcatfish has been lucipinnis or something else.

I bought a wild-caught syno sold as petricola and it was ID'd as polli. That was cool too, but there was only one fish and I could not get more.

I have a bunch from a hobbyist right now...13 individuals. One or two might be petricola per planetcatfish, but I have to try to get a pic of the pore on the side and have not had time to tackle that as yet.

typo if you could PM me a pick of your fish, I'll pursue the old world possibility. Thanks!

Also note that juvies can have different markings than mature fish, but I'd recommend getting an ID at planetcatfish.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Yep I would not trust old world exotic fish iether. Old school. Would give that about a 10% chance of being genuine petricola. Without seeing em.  
Mike on the other hand gets em and shows photos.
If you realy want real petricola I would go to him.
http://www.riftvalleycichlids.com/tanganyikanstock.html


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

UK only.


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## Shahlvah (Dec 28, 2011)

That is what I was going to said...how does the shipping works all the way from UK? I think it would not work for un in the USA


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

DJRansome said:


> UK only.


Sorry, it has been hard enough for me to find a good dealer here, no idea about a good one that regularly exports.


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## typo (Feb 9, 2011)

the last picture contains a syn. lucipinnis. he was shipped as petricola but it's quite obvious it's not.


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## Kimmah (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks for those photos. It's good to see pictures which demonstrate the difference between the two.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

typo said:


> the last picture contains a syn. lucipinnis. he was shipped as petricola but it's quite obvious it's not.


Have you checked those out on Planet catfish?
I realy dunno.
Except the bottom one yep lucipinnis. Thing is the others do not look like the WC petricola I have seen but also not quite like your usual lucipinnis. Realy I dunno what they are. Maybe something else. :-? Or a different variant.

Prob is there are quite a few catfish that look quite similar to real petricola (unlike lucipinnis that usualy stand out) and I dunno how to tell those apart.

Do you have a location for them? I understand (looked up on Planet catfish) that petricola can have very different patterns of spots and body shape dependant on this.

All the best James


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## typo (Feb 9, 2011)

> S. petricola and S. lucipinnis, are the only species with a solid white leading dorsal and pectoral fin ray and the spotted body pattern. S. petricola can be differentiated from S. lucipinnis by the former having smaller spots on the head than the body spots.


this tells me they are one or the other. they definitely aren't lucipinnis, they must be petricola.

a locality was not provided when i got them.

when i chose these fish, i picked them out of about 100. i purposely picked ones with odd spots.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I guess so.

Maybe note this quote.

"All in all. this species (as presently defined) is highly variable and likely to contain more than one valid species in the long run."

So while currently defined as (a) petricola prob best to keep em away from other petricola variants (? species) if breeding them.

I guess you want to breed them?

If so prob best to chase up on that collection site info.

If we were sure they were all collected at the same site I think we might be able to guess the variant.

I remember reading there is a site where they are known to live together and collected together.

Something sidguppy AKA Alex wrote on a now defunct forum about having to sort WC collected there.


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## typo (Feb 9, 2011)

i don't want to breed them.

i think ya'll are over-complicating this a bit much. it definitely isn't lucipinnis, it's petricola. until the species is further defined, which may never happen or may prove they aren't different, it's petricola.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Apparently the true petricola have a pore on the side behind the head, near the barb and where the fin attaches. I have not seen it myself yet, but I intend to make a project to photograph mine (known petricola and possible petricola) to see if I can confirm ID.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

typo said:


> i don't want to breed them.
> 
> i think ya'll are over-complicating this a bit much. it definitely isn't lucipinnis, it's petricola. until the species is further defined, which may never happen or may prove they aren't different, it's petricola.


Well if you are not going to breed them or sell them you can call them what you want.
Variant also becomes not worth bothering about.
Just another ornamentsl fish.

Seems you have gone to a lot of trouble just to get an ornamental fish?

All the best James


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Just a FYI. I bought lucipinnus for $19.99 each at about 2.5" long in the Pittsburgh, PA area.
I have three in my 67 gallon.


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## typo (Feb 9, 2011)

here's a baby pic of them i took when i was acclimating them to my tank. they were about 3/4" at the time. you can see the lucippinis but its really difficult to tell the difference.












24Tropheus said:


> Well if you are not going to breed them or sell them you can call them what you want.
> Variant also becomes not worth bothering about.
> Just another ornamentsl fish.
> 
> ...


no trouble at all really. my lfs is amazing and gets in quality and quantity. every time petricolas are available they get them. i used to work there(among other lfs in my area) so i know when they get shipments. i was there when these guys came in and got first crack at them before they were placed into their tanks.


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## eeztropheus (Jan 10, 2010)

typo said:


> > S. petricola and S. lucipinnis, are the only species with a solid white leading dorsal and pectoral fin ray and the spotted body pattern. S. petricola can be differentiated from S. lucipinnis by the former having smaller spots on the head than the body spots.


This would make mine S. petricola...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I find they both have smaller spots on the head. It seems the lucipinnis usually have the spots on the body more spread out but that is not a deciding factor in ID.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Well if you accept typo's as petricola then yours look similar.

I dunno. I would check it out with the experts on planet catfish.

I do know we are getting some stuff labelled as TB petricola in the UK and some look similar.
They have the small spots on the head but not the pattern of spots on the body I associate with petricola.

I dunno what they are.

A lucipinnis looking petricola? Or I hate to think someone is breeding hybrids.

With petricola being so rare in the hobby and lucipinnis so common I guess the temptation is there if one can not get petricola to breed.

I do know there is some disagreement (on planet catfish) on wheather someone is breeding petricola on a commercial scale.

But its quite a murky world and I for sure have not got to the answer.

Here in the UK we can get WC petricola for Ã‚Â£28 so I guess few would risk buying these young "TB petricola" guys if hoping to breed.

All the best James


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

I love synos. I have 4 syno Multis and 1 Syno Angelicus.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Two quotes.

All in all. this species (petricola) (as presently defined) is highly variable and likely to contain more than one valid species in the long run.

Because of the similarity with S. lucipinnis, it is unclear if this species is the one many aquarists have spawned.

Me I think all we see that have been bred are lucipinnis.

This fish (lucipinnis) however appears to be growing to a smaller mature size than S. petricola and is less heavily spotted in comparison.

"S. petricola can be differentiated from S. lucipinnis by the former having smaller spots on the head than the body spots."

Is I think a poor indicator.
As seen here http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... e_id=10254 lucipinnis can have smaller spots on the head.

Size they grow to is prob a better indicator.

But then we are pretty sure petricola is multi species and multi variant.

And lucipinnis .............. Erm think so too.

Just can not tell much without the collection site.

All the best James


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## JcarrVT (May 9, 2010)

Well, there's a lot to respond to in this thread but I think I have something constructive to add. The head of my local fish club (Burlington Tropical Fish Club) breeds his Petricola and sells them to our local lfs, The Pet Advantage. They end up being about 15$ a piece and they almost always have some.

I do not believe he does any sort of injection to get them to spawn, nor is he aware that it is considered impossible to breed them in captivity.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

JcarrVT said:


> Well, there's a lot to respond to in this thread but I think I have something constructive to add. The head of my local fish club (Burlington Tropical Fish Club) breeds his Petricola and sells them to our local lfs, The Pet Advantage. They end up being about 15$ a piece and they almost always have some.
> 
> I do not believe he does any sort of injection to get them to spawn, nor is he aware that it is considered impossible to breed them in captivity.


But are they _S.petricola_ or _S.lucipinnis_?

Most _S.lucipinnis_ are bred and sold as "Petricola" because it has been happening for years.

They were only defined as separate species a short wile ago.

Few breed a fish they bought as _S.petricola_ or "Petricola" and then sell the young as _S.lucipinnis_.

I guess I am unusual that way. :thumb:

The confusion is hardly helped by the common name for _S.lucipinnis_ being Dwarf Petricola.

And the similarity between some types.

All the best James


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## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

TrashmanNYC said:


> I love synos. I have 4 syno Multis and 1 Syno Angelicus.


How do you have an angelicus with rift lake cichlids. Thought the angelicus took much softer water and acidic water.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

k7gixxerguy said:


> TrashmanNYC said:
> 
> 
> > I love synos. I have 4 syno Multis and 1 Syno Angelicus.
> ...


Quite adaptable pH 6-8.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=278


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