# Newbie Help, Blue acara's



## atvaholic (Nov 4, 2008)

Hello, This seems like a great forum, and was wondering if you could provide help. I have had tropical fish before, never cichlids. Anyway, I had a 20 gallon tank and went into my local pet store to ask what kind of fish would be good to stock. For some reason, the obviously uninformed employee told me that the blue acara was a hardy cichlid. My 3 year old liked them, so I took them home. I did a little research to find that they grow 8 inches long!

I wanted to go return them, as there is NO way they are going to fit in a 20 gallon. I told my son, but he's pretty atatched to them, so I convinced my wife we need a 40 gallon  .

Anyway my question is as follows -
The two fish seem to be active, colorful and healthy. I notice the smaller Blue Acara (Which by the way is the more aggressive and colorful of the two) seems to enjoy swimming and turning on his side and scraping some of the rocks. I looked closely, but the fish looks healthy, and is very colorful.

He does this quite a bit, but seems very active, healthy and feeds well. I check daily for for ammonia, nitrates and Nitrates, There are no signs of any. The other fish seems fine, although the smaller one seems to chase him. It does not seem to serious. Is this normal behaviour? Thanks, and please remember I am new at this.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I don't believe you'll be able to do this, even with the 40G tank, unless it's a 4 foot tank.

If your tank wasn't properly cycled, you may have some problems. You really shouldn't add fish you plan to keep long term to an uncycled tank. With all zero readings, I'm assuming it wasn't cycled.

What kind of test kits are you using? (strips or liquid reagent)

Are they less than 6 months opened?

You're going to need to monitor the parameters daily, and be prepared to initiate frequent water changes once the tank begins it's cycle. (Check out articles on the cycle in the library.)

Your fish may be flashing because of subtle changes in the water chemistry, and yes, it can do long term damage to the fish if you don't stay on top of things and do water changes as necessary. I would recommend picking up some Prime to use with the water changes, as this will aid in detoxifying the ammonia once it starts to rise. I would also feed very minimal amounts until you make it through the cycle of the tank.


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## atvaholic (Nov 4, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> I don't believe you'll be able to do this, even with the 40G tank, unless it's a 4 foot tank.
> 
> If your tank wasn't properly cycled, you may have some problems. You really shouldn't add fish you plan to keep long term to an uncycled tank. With all zero readings, I'm assuming it wasn't cycled.
> 
> ...


Thanks, CA. Wow, I thought 40 Gallon would be large! Could you explain why they would need a 4ft tank? I assume they need that room to swim? I understand the basics of the cycle, and I have been checking every day. You are correct, it has not cycled. I am using the multi-test strips, they are a few weeks old, and have an expiry date in 2009. The strange thing is the fish has been doing it since I brought him home. The other fish does not.

I have some tablets called ammonia clear. Is this the same as "prime" ? I also have a product from tetra called water conditioner. it's supposed to be used with water changes to remove chlorine, and helps with the "slime coat", etc.

Thanks for any replies!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I've not kept acaras, so I might be wrong, but IMO a 40G tank isn't large enough for 2 eight inch fish. Also, I think alot will depend on how well they get along, whether you have a pair, two males, etc...Smaller sized tanks aren't as forgiving as larger ones are.

Test strips are worthless, IMO. Liquid reagent kits are best.

Prime is the best, as far as I'm concerned. I've been keeping fish for over 30 years, and never used anything else that comes close.


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## atvaholic (Nov 4, 2008)

*Update:*
The situation is the same, except I know notice the other fish flashing as well. I tested just now and found nitrites were high (about 1 mg/litre). I immediately did a 20% water change. Should I do more? I was told not to change more then 20% at once. Also, I notice one of the two is hanging around at the top of the tank.

Oh, yes, my LFS does not carry "prime" Im going to do some digging, but is there something else I can use for now..

help please!


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

You can certainly do water changes greater than 20%. I do regular changes of 40-50% on my heavily stocked tanks and have never had a problem with it.

Your fish are likely flashing due to the ammonia and nitrite levels, and big water change will help a lot.

Try looking for Amquel if you can't find prime.


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## atvaholic (Nov 4, 2008)

I changed another 25% out. I still notice them flashing. Will go to the pet shop and see what they have.


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## atvaholic (Nov 4, 2008)

Hi, I found some prime two cities over, I put some in as per the directions on the bottle. The nitrite levels no longer register. The fish seem to be more like themselves but I still see them flashing. When should i expect the nitrite levels to rise again? And should the fish return to normal?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *atvaholic*,

Welcome to C-F.

I'm going to try and answer a couple of questions you've asked earlier and address a couple of issues that have come up in subsequent posts. I'll provide some links to further reading from the Library section of C-F that you really should read. These links will provide far better answers than what I could give here.

There are two possible reasons why your Blue Acaras might be flashing. Either they may have White Spot or may be suffering from Ammonia Burns. I won't rule out either possibility in your case, and it's possible both are at play.

It's unfortunate you did not cycle your tank first before introducing cichlids to your tank. It's possible for juvenile fish to suffer long term problems when introduced to tanks that aren't properly cycled. Water changes will help to some extent, but they might also extend the time it will take for your tank to cycle properly. Also you should never perform a water change without treating the tap water first, this is the main reason why we use Prime. There are three article in the Library section that adress all issues, The Nitrogen Cycle, Water Treatment & Water Changes.

Appropriate tank size for cichlids. One of the best bits of advice I see often on here is,.. _always buy the correct size tank for the adult sized cichlids your juveniles will grow into, and never plan on upgrading tanks in the future as your juvenile cichlids grow._

Why? well life happens. It's all well and good to say you'll buy a larger tank 3 months down the road when your fish grows larger. But what happens if you find you can not afford to buy a new tank becuase other things have happened in your families life. Now your in a real catch 22 situation. You need a bigger tank but can't afford it, and you kids have really bonded with your fish and to return them to a LFS may be heart wrenching and potentially end thier love of fish, but to keep a largish fish in a small tank is plain cruelty. There are only losers in this situation, either the kids/family or the fish.

As for what constitutes an appropriate sized tank, well that's subjective and has been the central issue of a few heated debates here. A general consensus with one group of members here is that fish that grow between 5 inches to 8 inches shouldn't be kept in tanks shorter than 4 feet, with a 75 gallon tank being a good starter.

Why a 75 gallon tank? Well width is just as important as length. Give your fish enough room to turn comfortably. I'd like to see you perform a smooth U-turn in your 10 foot long car on a road that's 14 feet wide.

Another issue in regards to tank size is the type of fish you are keeping. Blue Acaras are mid sized predator SA cichlid. Among other behaviour attributes is that they become territorial as adult fish in the aquarium. Thier terratorial behaviour is probably more exaggerated in the aquarium becuase they only have a limited area to interact in. It's not like a sub-dominant fish can swim 20 yards down stream to get away from a dominant fish. Cichlids, by nature, show higher levels of aggression among others of thier own species, this is called con-specific aggression.

A 75 gallon tank allows enough the room to aquascape a couple of territories, so a bullied fish can escape from the bully. There is no _correct_ way to aquascape a tank, but there are some good basics to understand. _Line of Sight_ and _Sight Breaks_, basically you want to break up your tank into areas or _terratories_. You can achieve this by strategically placing driftwood and plants in the tank so that fish can not see the whole length of the tank. Imagine creating a maze in your tank. Out of sight out of mind certainly applies to cichlids, but once the chase is on, these obstacles help the fleeing fish find a safe refuge.

I hope this helps somewhat, and good luck with your Blue Acaras.


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## atvaholic (Nov 4, 2008)

DeadFishFloating said:


> G'day *atvaholic*,
> 
> Welcome to C-F.
> 
> ...


Wow!! Thanks for such a detailed response! I have lots of reading to do. I read up on the ick and ammonia burns. Its really hard to tell which (or both) of these are at play. I dont see any marks on the fish, and they are feeding well. I think you are telling me that will change?

Should I treat for these? The treatment for ammonia burns (which I think means this could lead to a bacterial infection) seems to require a quarantine tank, with seperate heater, filter, etc. An expense I can't afford at the moment. The treatment for ick can be medicine or sea salt. I think I may try the salt. What would you recommend treating for and how? Or should I wait to see any other symptoms?

Thanks for the link to the library. I will read up. I wish I knew more about cycling. In all honesty, with what i've read here in the last 25 minutes I feel more qualified then the guy at the LFS which told me blue acara's will be "fine in a 20 gallon".

Your point of tank size/turning your vehicle is well taken. Thanks again for taking the time to explain.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

> here is no correct way to aquascape a tank


there is to! like there natural habitat! dont want no plastic ornaments in there!


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

gage said:


> > there is no correct way to aquascape a tank
> 
> 
> there is to! like there natural habitat! dont want no plastic ornaments in there!


Yeah I wouldn't mind a tank that looked like this Venezuelan Creek. But I could live without my tank looking a Peruvian Creek.

:lol:

OK there many ways to aquascape a fish tank, some better than others. Just remember sunken ships, crocodile heads, mermaids blowing bubbles out of thier a***, or aquanuats aren't everyones cup of tea.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hey *atvaholic*,

I don't know if you have ich or ammonia burns occuring in your tank. I was just providing some reading about what possibly might be cuasing your fish to _flash_. You are in the best situation to tell if either is happening.

I wouldn't treat for anything at the moment while your tank is still cycling. Let it cycle, then assess what is going on in your tank. I should have mentioned in my first post to try and find some Seachem Stability to add to your tank while it cycles.

Glad your happy to read up on things. Many newbies don't/won't and it's often harder to talk
to them as they just want to be spoon fed.

If it's possible, plan to buy a larger tank down the track (family christmass present?), that way your current tank can become a hospital/quarentine tank in the future.

Otherwise, you may need to rethink what cichlids to keep.

Right now, I would just focus on the tank cycling, may take 4 to 6 weeks, and read as many of the articles you can here on C-F. That way when your tank is properly ready you will be that much more informed. If at that stage you want to change fish, there are many dwarf SA cichlids that a few of us can recommend for your tank. Oh and look at everyones tanks (click on *tanks* at bottom of peoples posts - not everyone has it btw) to get some ideas for aquascaping or look here. Dutch Dude and Blairo1 have some really good aquascaped tanks.


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## atvaholic (Nov 4, 2008)

Hi All -

Just wanted to update, I read up on salt as a general stress reducer. I added some to the tank, along with keeping water changes coming and using prime. The fish don't seem to be flashing any more. Thanks again. Will keep you updated in case things change again.


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## michelle767 (Jun 17, 2004)

Hi,
I've kept blue acaras in the past. I'd love to find them again, but weirdly my two local LFS never stock them. I guess they seem _too_ common.

Re: your question about tank size, while the others are right that you should err on the side of caution, let me say that it's extremely unlikely that your acaras will reach 8 inches. Maybe if they were wild (which I've never seen), but as store-bought fish, they will probably max out around 6 inches. A 55 gallon or even a 40 long or 45 long, would be plenty, I think. You are going to need 4' in length, though.

Think of the bright side: if you get a 55, you can certainly stock it with a few other interesting fish! (Just be sure to go for ones that inhabit the mid- to upper levels of the tank.)


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