# true or false?...



## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

:-? - :roll: - :? - opcorn: ...


----------



## Old Newbie (Feb 18, 2017)

I don't have 35 minutes right now to watch a video, but pondguru is a reputable fish keeper and every other video of his that I have watched has been pretty much spot on.


----------



## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

There is a lot of good info in this video.


----------



## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

any one else?...


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I would say that it's pretty much true.


----------



## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

For the benefit of those of us who are not able to spend 35 minutes watching the video - what is the question?


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Basically he's talking about 1 kilo of media per 100 liters in order to truly have a complete nitrogen cycle with anaerobic bacteria, how filter manufacturers are misleading on how much water their filters can handle, how to properly place media in a canister filter, and then pretty much makes a product endorsement for biohome and says that ceramic rings are crappy. I agree with a lot of what he says but I don't think a filter should be solely rated by how many kilos of media it can hold. Also, I think it's a little more complex than just saying if you have this set formula of 1kilo of biomedia per 100 liters, that you will have a complete nitrogen cycle. I suppose if you packed a few canisters tight enough to slow the flow down that it might be possible to grow enough anaerobic bacteria to reduce nitrates but then you're not getting a proper turnover rate...


----------



## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

I don't understand his point re: the nitrate cycle. Surely he doesn't expect us to have zero nitrates in our tanks.
Other than that, congratulations to all the Americans for being able to understand what a Geordie is saying : )


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

noddy said:


> I don't understand his point re: the nitrate cycle. Surely he doesn't expect us to have zero nitrates in our tanks.
> Other than that, congratulations to all the Americans for being able to understand what a Geordie is saying : )


It is possible to have and maintain zero nitrates. I've achieved that goal before, but the upkeep on the system I had in place wasn't worth it. If I was keeping discus or a reef tank then maybe I would be a little more willing to go through the trouble but I don't and I won't lol. I have a 35 gallon tank that runs 0-5 ppm of nitrates on a regular basis just by having a canister and HOB that's way oversized for the tank.


----------



## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> noddy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand his point re: the nitrate cycle. Surely he doesn't expect us to have zero nitrates in our tanks.
> ...


I have around 30 litres of media running on a 210g tank. It's about to be 36 litres when I find the time to hook up the other 2262 I have sitting here.


----------



## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

Think he also mentioned never opening up and cleaning the bio media so that the media gets clogged which in turn creates an environment that is anaerobic. His idea is a mechanical filter upstream of the biomedia filter that gets all the maintenance . At least I think it was that one as I watched 2 more of his. He pushes biohome media in all the videos I watched.


----------



## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Cyphound said:


> Think he also mentioned never opening up and cleaning the bio media so that the media gets clogged which in turn creates an environment that is anaerobic. His idea is a mechanical filter upstream of the biomedia filter that gets all the maintenance . At least I think it was that one as I watched 2 more of his. He pushes biohome media in all the videos I watched.


When I add the 2nd 2262 it will be for mech only.
I hadn't thought about not cleaning the other one (strictly bio) but I might look into it.


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Cyphound said:


> Think he also mentioned never opening up and cleaning the bio media so that the media gets clogged which in turn creates an environment that is anaerobic. His idea is a mechanical filter upstream of the biomedia filter that gets all the maintenance . At least I think it was that one as I watched 2 more of his. He pushes biohome media in all the videos I watched.


I don't remember him saying anything about never opening the filter to clean it but I do remember him talking about how to clean the filter properly.


----------



## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

Sooooo....if this works and nitrates stay very low to none, what would become of water changes.


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Low nitrate does not negate the need for water changes. Fish use up the electrolytes naturally found in most water supplies and water changes replace those necessary nutrients. Also, it removes dissolved organic compounds that can lead to algae outbreaks and fungus infestations. Not practicing a weekly water change regimen is nothing more than a gamble and it has been scientifically proven that high nitrates and "old tank syndrome" are detrimental to fish health. I suppose that some people are callous and think of them as "only fish" but they are living creatures that deserve the best care and respect they can be given. You make a choice when you buy a pet to be their caretaker and if you don't want to properly care for that pet you shouldn't have them.


----------



## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Low nitrate does not negate the need for water changes. Fish use up the electrolytes naturally found in most water supplies and water changes replace those necessary nutrients. Also, it removes dissolved organic compounds that can lead to algae outbreaks and fungus infestations. Not practicing a weekly water change regimen is nothing more than a gamble and* it has been scientifically proven that high nitrates* and "old tank syndrome"* are detrimental to fish health.* I suppose that some people are callous and think of them as "only fish" but they are living creatures that deserve the best care and respect they can be given. You make a choice when you buy a pet to be their caretaker and if you don't want to properly care for that pet you shouldn't have them.


Soooo.... if it works and nitrates are low, we can rule this out. Correct???
Don't know anything about "Old Tank Syndrome".....sounds like an old third rate black and white horror flick.


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

BlueSunshine said:


> caldwelldaniel26 said:
> 
> 
> > Low nitrate does not negate the need for water changes. Fish use up the electrolytes naturally found in most water supplies and water changes replace those necessary nutrients. Also, it removes dissolved organic compounds that can lead to algae outbreaks and fungus infestations. Not practicing a weekly water change regimen is nothing more than a gamble and* it has been scientifically proven that high nitrates* and "old tank syndrome"* are detrimental to fish health.* I suppose that some people are callous and think of them as "only fish" but they are living creatures that deserve the best care and respect they can be given. You make a choice when you buy a pet to be their caretaker and if you don't want to properly care for that pet you shouldn't have them.
> ...


Please do a simple google search on "old tank syndrome" and educate yourself. I have 180 gallon tank with a 40 gallon sump that has much more media than the video says is required, (5 liters of eheim substrat pro, 15 pounds of small lava rock gravel, 3 liters of ceramic bio rings, 1 liter each of matrix and denitrate, about 20 pounds of aragonite sand plus mechanical filter media. I can't even go a more than two weeks without doing a water change because the nitrates would be over 40ppm. There's nothing other than installing a drip system that is a replacement for water changes.


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I will concede that some species are accustomed to and appreciate water quality that other fish would not tolerate well, such as black water fish and some tropicals that thrive in stagnant pools. The majority of cichlids are not included in this group though.


----------



## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

re: need for water changes - nitrates are a good indicator, there are other components that fish excrete that build up over time as well as change the chemistry. Nitrates happen to be fairly easy to test for, and effectively are a good proxy for knowing when to change the water.

There is a reason that serious breeders have water changing processes that approach and pass 100% daily.


----------



## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

nodima said:


> re: need for water changes - nitrates are a good indicator, there are other components that fish excrete that build up over time as well as change the chemistry. Nitrates happen to be fairly easy to test for, and effectively are a good proxy for knowing when to change the water.
> 
> There is a reason that serious breeders have water changing processes that approach and pass 100% daily.


If nitrates stay very low to none because of how the tank is setup, what would one use to judge the necessity of a water change?


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Unless you have access to a lab to have your water tested for dissolved organics or depleted electrolytes, there's not a test you can buy from an LFS. Nobody should rely on a test to let them know when to do a water change. It should be a routine to keep water parameters safe instead of waiting until they're on the borderline to do a water change.


----------



## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

.


----------



## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

BlueSunshine said:


> nodima said:
> 
> 
> > re: need for water changes - nitrates are a good indicator, there are other components that fish excrete that build up over time as well as change the chemistry. Nitrates happen to be fairly easy to test for, and effectively are a good proxy for knowing when to change the water.
> ...


Get a lab test for Total Dissolved Solids? Or just do regular water changes, regardless of nitrates.


----------



## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

joselepiu said:


> :-? - :roll: - :? - opcorn: ...


OP, go on youtube and search these two channels, Jay's Aquarium and Kevin Novak, you might find them to be interesting. :thumb:


----------



## Ichthys (Apr 21, 2016)

BlueSunshine said:


> If nitrates stay very low to none because of how the tank is setup, what would one use to judge the necessity of a water change?


Time. Dunno if it's been mentioned but fish also release pheromones that inhibit growth, aswell as other things, so even if nitrates are negligible do 50% a week anyway.


----------



## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

Ichthys said:


> BlueSunshine said:
> 
> 
> > If nitrates stay very low to none because of how the tank is setup, what would one use to judge the necessity of a water change?
> ...


If you do not mind,what are the other things you speak of. I find myself doing a lot of research and reading as of late.

Here is something I stumbled across for anyone that may be interested.
http://anoxicfiltrationsystem.blogspot.com/


----------



## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Anaerobic filters have been around for a while and are effective at removing nitrates. I've had this sort of system on my 180 gallon tank before, but it's just another thing that requires maintenance, extra space and money. Why not just keep it simple and do a water change instead of exhausting more time and effort to figure out a way not to do them?


----------



## Ichthys (Apr 21, 2016)

BlueSunshine said:


> Ichthys said:
> 
> 
> > BlueSunshine said:
> ...


To be honest I don't know, but over my 46 years of experience I've found the growth inhibitors are enough reason. Even with very low nitrates (5-10), doubling my water changes from 50% once a week to 50% twice a week gives noticeable increases in growth rate, appetite (probably linked), and overall health (stronger immune system? Less physiological stress?)


----------



## Ichthys (Apr 21, 2016)

Hmm, I wasn't allowed to edit my previous post...

Denitrifying filters are pretty straight forward to accomplish. I've run one a few times. All you need is two filters. The first is your main mechanical and biological filter. The second is full of porous media and needs to be about the same size as your tank. Only a trickle of the return runs through this filter so you need a T-junction on your main filter return, with a clamp. The denitrifying medium needs to be kept very clean or the pores will quickly block up.

But even with zero nitrates, water changes are not a 'must do' thing, they're beneficial to the fish every time. With more water changes, the fish are more active, more robust, more colourful, and the increase in growth rate can be many-fold. Bring-em on, I say...


----------



## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

The plenum, cat litter and laterite are some of the things I found interesting. They even touch on how pheromones are reduced and fish, in confined areas, seem to grow when they are not suppose to.
All of this with no water changes. :-?


----------

