# Decided on Shell Dwellers for my First Fish!



## SchrutesBeets (Aug 10, 2017)

I am a first-time fishkeeper, and I decided to start with African Shell Dwellers. My LFS had some multis, so I am preparing my tank to house them.

I have a 20 gallon long tank and have concerns about my water parameters. I used the API kits and found that my pH is about a 7.0. I can't distinguish the color too well so it may be a 7.2. I also bought the GH and KH tests but am not sure how to read my results. For my KH test, it took 1 drop to change color. For my GH test, it took 2 drops. So, it's low.

I've been reading up on substrates, media, and chemicals and have been seeing inconsistent advice. Many say that they would never use chemicals due to potential fluctuations, whereas others say using substrate or media that can bring up the pH, GH, KH never worked for them. They recommend baking soda and epsom salt but half the sites out there seem to oppose using these. So, I am stuck.

I bought some crushed coral that I will stick in my AquaClear 50. I am also deciding on a substrate and leaning towards the African Cichlid sand or aragonite sand to increase buffer capacity. So, am I on the right track? Do I really need sand that will increase KH? Will the coral be enough? My LFS has Texas holy rock so I can stick that in as well. I prefer not to use chemicals to make it easy as possible for me, a beginner.

Also, I bought a python for water changes and cleaning, but it is looking like this will be useless. Many seem to put water in a bucket and wait until the pH, GH, KH match the tank's and then pour the water in, making the python which hooks to the sink directly harmful. Am I right on this one?

My primary questions involve water chemistry, but I am also looking for lights. I don't want to run up my bill and I don't plan on getting plants for the time being. Any recommendations for lighting? I also want to at Julies but there is conflicting advice out there as well.

I have a million questions but I limited myself to posting just a few for the time being. I want to get started on cycling my tank so any advice would be great!


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Substrates are poor at boosting kH and only works if water is constantly flowing through it such as in a filter or sump. Your water is extremely soft and would be perfect for keeping discus straight out of the tap lol. Some people would kill for that but in your case it's a nightmare for hard water, high pH fish. I'd rather use calcium carbonate to raise kH, baking soda to adjust pH up and a mixture of epsom salt and kosher salt to help with gH. The kH and gH should be in the 10-14 drop range. Best way to figure out your ratios is to start with a 5 gallon bucket and add measured amounts until optimum parameters are achieved.


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## dalto (Aug 20, 2006)

Your shellies aren't going to be so picky that minor fluctuations are going to be hugely problematic. You can put the holey rock and the crushed coral in your filter and see how much it changes.(This will take time) As long as it gets vaguely close from a ph perspective and raises your kh enough to be stable I would just run with that and add some epsom salt with your water changes to get a reasonable tds/gh. You could, instead, use commercial african cichlid salts if you prefer. It is much easier to raise ph/kh/gh than it is to lower it.

I don't think you need to premix it in a bucket and get perfect parameters. These aren't sensitive marine corals, that can withstand some variation in parameters. I would just dissolve it some water and just add it in with your water changes.

My opinion is that julies would be a little much with multis in a 20g. As for lights, anything will be fine if you don't want plants. Does your tank have glass tops or a hood and is it a 20l or a 20h?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

dalto said:


> Your shellies aren't going to be so picky that minor fluctuations are going to be hugely problematic. You can put the holey rock and the crushed coral in your filter and see how much it changes.(This will take time) As long as it gets vaguely close from a ph perspective and raises your kh enough to be stable I would just run with that and add some epsom salt with your water changes to get a reasonable tds/gh. You could, instead, use commercial african cichlid salts if you prefer. It is much easier to raise ph/kh/gh than it is to lower it.
> 
> I don't think you need to premix it in a bucket and get perfect parameters. These aren't sensitive marine corals, that can withstand some variation in parameters. I would just dissolve it some water and just add it in with your water changes.
> 
> My opinion is that julies would be a little much with multis in a 20g. As for lights, anything will be fine if you don't want plants. Does your tank have glass tops or a hood and is it a 20l or a 20h?


Thanks Dalto but I don't think you understood what I was saying. A pH of 7, and low kH isn't a good combination with any African Cichlid. Putting Holey rock and aragonite in the filter still has minimal impact on alkalinity. With water softness nearing RO, there has to be a buffer added to the water to maintain an alkaline pH lest you run the risk of castastrophic pH swings. I also wasn't instructing the OP to "premix" the water like they are "sensitive reef fish" I was saying that it's easier to start with a known amount of water in a bucket to experiment with how much calcium carbonate and epsom salt it takes to reach optimal water parameters so the OP knows how to dose for the entire tank. Why pay for expensive "cichlid salts" when you can achieve the same results for much cheaper?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

To the OP-
Fill up a cup and let it sit out overnight. Test your pH in the morning and again at night.


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## SchrutesBeets (Aug 10, 2017)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> To the OP-
> Fill up a cup and let it sit out overnight. Test your pH in the morning and again at night.


I bought a 5 gallon bucket and filled it halfway. Then I put 1 teaspoon of epsom salt and 1 teaspoon of baking soda. My pH went from 7.2 to 8.2. My KH test changed color after 18 drops, whereas it changed after 2 drops before. My GH test changed color after 17 drops, whereas it changed after 2 drops before. I know that the pH is okay for shell dwellers, but are the readings for KH and GH too high? Will adding the coral make the GH and KH too high?

I will leave the water out, test it before I head to bed in about 2 hours, in the morning, when I get home from work, etc. to make sure it stays the way it is.

During water changes, do I simply take out 2.5 buckets and put in the pre-mixed 2.5 buckets?


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## SchrutesBeets (Aug 10, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Substrates are poor at boosting kH and only works if water is constantly flowing through it such as in a filter or sump. Your water is extremely soft and would be perfect for keeping discus straight out of the tap lol. Some people would kill for that but in your case it's a nightmare for hard water, high pH fish. I'd rather use calcium carbonate to raise kH, baking soda to adjust pH up and a mixture of epsom salt and kosher salt to help with gH. The kH and gH should be in the 10-14 drop range. Best way to figure out your ratios is to start with a 5 gallon bucket and add measured amounts until optimum parameters are achieved.


I bought some baking soda and epsom salt. I would love to keep discus, but let's keep this simple as possible 

I added 1 teaspoon of baking soda and epsom salt to about 2.5 gallons and my water tests changed at 17 and 18 drops. I can adjust this with some trial and error. If I add crushed coral in the filter and use a substrate such as aragonite or cichlid salt, am I going way overboard or does the chemistry "work itself out" and stop at some maximum?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

SchrutesBeets said:


> Iggy Newcastle said:
> 
> 
> > To the OP-
> ...


The coral won't raise the kH or gH any higher than the readings you are getting after adding the Epsom salt and baking soda. If it takes 1tsp of each per 2.5 gallons then you'll want to initially divide your tank volume by 2.5 and add that number of teaspoons to your main tank. Then leave the tank running for a week without water changes, monitoring the ph once during the day and once at night. At the end of the week, retest your kH and gH and record the results. When doing water changes, calculate the total gallons of water by percentage of tank volume removed and once again divide by 2.5 and add that number of teaspoons. It's not going to be any different than dosing with cichlid salts, the hard part is figuring out what amount of the two ingredients to add to make the pH, kH and gH correct. Once you get that part down it's the same dosage every time.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I should have said, you won't need cichlid salt using baking soda and epsom salt. It negates the need for it and is a lot cheaper


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## SchrutesBeets (Aug 10, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> I should have said, you won't need cichlid salt using baking soda and epsom salt. It negates the need for it and is a lot cheaper


When doing water changes, is it possible to use a python vacuum hooked to the tap, or do I have to put water into the bucket, add the right amount of epsom salt and baking soda, and transfer the water from the bucket to the tank?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Personally, I prefer to use a big trash can to dechlorinate and mix the new water to the proper pH before it goes into the tank. It takes a lot less dechlorinator because you're only dosing for the amount of water you took out and it's easier on the fish. But, if you want to use the python method, mix up your epsom salt and baking soda with a couple of gallons of water until dissolved and set aside, add enough dechlorinator for the entire tank volume directly to the display tank, fill to 3/4, pour in your bucket then top off with the python.


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## SchrutesBeets (Aug 10, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Personally, I prefer to use a big trash can to dechlorinate and mix the new water to the proper pH before it goes into the tank. It takes a lot less dechlorinator because you're only dosing for the amount of water you took out and it's easier on the fish. But, if you want to use the python method, mix up your epsom salt and baking soda with a couple of gallons of water until dissolved and set aside, add enough dechlorinator for the entire tank volume directly to the display tank, fill to 3/4, pour in your bucket then top off with the python.


First, thank you for your help. I'm going to try the python method first just to avoid using buckets. How often should I do a water change and how much water should be changed in a 20 gallon long?

To make sure I have this right...for the python method,

1. I take out 10 gallons (hypothetical amount) of water leaving 10 gallons in the tank. 
2. I put in enough dechlorinator for 10 gallons directly into the tank. (I've read some people will put in enough dechlorinator for the entire tank even if a partial water change is done. Is adding more dechlorinator beneficial or can that cause harm?)
3. I mix the right amount of epsom salt and baking soda into a bucket filled with 2.5 gallons of water.
4. I put 7.5 gallons of tap into the tank using the python
5. I pour in the 2.5 gallons of mixed water

During step 4, the water will dip in KH, PH, GH and then rise back to normal in step 5. Will this short yet dramatic fluctuation be dangerous?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

SchrutesBeets said:


> caldwelldaniel26 said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I prefer to use a big trash can to dechlorinate and mix the new water to the proper pH before it goes into the tank. It takes a lot less dechlorinator because you're only dosing for the amount of water you took out and it's easier on the fish. But, if you want to use the python method, mix up your epsom salt and baking soda with a couple of gallons of water until dissolved and set aside, add enough dechlorinator for the entire tank volume directly to the display tank, fill to 3/4, pour in your bucket then top off with the python.
> ...


Sorry, I guess a couple of things got lost in translation. If you use the python method, you must dose enough dechlorinator for the entire tank volume so enough for 20 gallons. If using the bucket method, you would use enough dechlorinator for the water volume in the bucket. If you take out 10 gallons of water, according to your initial experiment, you would use roughly 4 teaspoons of baking soda and 4 teaspoons of epsom salt to reach the same results. The 2.5 gallons was just your baseline for the experiment, so if it took one teaspoon of each ingredient to reach a decent alkalinity, pH and gH it would take 4 teaspoons to get the same results in 10 gallons. Initially it would take 8 teaspoons of each ingredient to dose the entire 20 gallon volume


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

If I were in your situation, and were looking to keep Tang Shellies, I'd fill a cup with tap water and set it out overnight. Test it 24 hours later. If the pH remains the same then I wouldn't mess with anything.

If you want to buffer, mix your concoction for the volume being changed in a pitcher and add in slow increments while you fill during water changes. For little shelleys you're looking at weekly changes based around nitrate load. If it's a colonizing fish, these changes will increase(% or frequency) as the latter grows.


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## Wagnmkr (May 21, 2017)

I have had Shell Dweller Multis for about 4 months now. They are dead simple to keep. Plants ... no, 'cause these fish just love to dig and they have totally changed their landscape about 4 times since I have had them.

I have water from the tap, in a bucket. I let it sit for two days, stirring every time I walk past it. I use this to top up the tank, or do a 10% change (10 gal tank) once a week. Every two weeks I empty the bucket and start fresh.

Lights are just what came with the ten gallon tank ... nothing special.

The fish are very active, eat well, show off the natural urge to dig, and tussle for territory.

No muss or fuss.

Sometimes we let the technology overtake the enjoyment factor, when K.I.S.S. actually works better.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I can do this as well but only because my tap water is suitable for Africans and I have a private well...no chlorine. Not everyone is so lucky.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

A pH of 7 is not ideal and with the lack of an adequate buffering agent, that's subject to drop at any time for any given reason. I'm not trying to have the OP do unnecessary maintenance. Besides, we're talking about a 20 gallon tank... It's not that much trouble to add a couple of teaspoons of baking soda and epsom salt during a water change. I do a 95 gallon water change on one tank every week and I have to buffer and raise pH from 7.2 out of the chloramine filter to 8.2 before it goes in the display and it's not that much trouble, it becomes routine. My aragonite fluidized bed keeps the pH at 8.2 so I prefer to try and match that instead of shocking them. To the OP you could even cut the original dosing in half and you would be fine, just so you're not having to tire yourself out lifting 8 teaspoons to mix in a gallon of water lol. Instead you could do 2 teaspoons of each for ten gallons of new water. That would probably put you somewhere in the 7.6-7.8 range, which would be fine.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> I can do this as well but only because my tap water is suitable for Africans and I have a private well...no chlorine. Not everyone is so lucky.


Yeah what I wouldn't give to be able to just throw a hose in my African tank and fill. My tap is perfect for the angels and tetras though lol.


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