# FISH KEEP DYING.....HELP



## 50_TANK_atl (Dec 12, 2017)

Hello room after I made the mistake of doing 100% water change, about 6 months ago. I been trying to stabilize my tanks to house african cichlids again. Each time I purchase fish, usually from Petsmart they dies after a few days, if not overnight. My water tested out fine. I was having trouble the the ammonia levels, but believe I have that under control now. The pH is great. I have cleaned and tested all the tank decor. The last group fishI purchased all died. I have a 50 gallon tank. After this batch died, I thought of cleaning the net I was using to enter the fish in the tank. I'm thinking the net was toxic I havn't clean it in a while. What do you think? :fish: :-?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Hi and Welcome to C-F!!!

Sorry for your loss 6 months ago, it's always sad when that happens.

Can you post the actual test results and what type/brand test kit you are using?

Also post the dimensions (L x W x H) of your tank for recommendations on which fish will work best for that size tank.


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## 50_TANK_atl (Dec 12, 2017)

My tank is 48 x12.5x 20.5. I'm using te Tetra EasySrips 6 in 1 and the API ammonia test kit. I don't have actual test results. I'm in recommended level give to Petsmart and what I have learn them to be over the last couple of years.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

imo...
liquid test are way better than the strip ones...


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## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

I can't read the test strip results - can you list the tests from top to bottom? ie Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, etc.?

When you say clean the tank, what are you using? What is the filtration system, and how long has the tank been set up?


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## 50_TANK_atl (Dec 12, 2017)

The results 
Nitrite - 0 = safe
Nitrite - 0 = safe
Harness - 0 = very soft
Chlorine - 0 = safe
Alkalinity - 120 - ideal
pH - 7.2-7.8

I'm using a Emperor 280 Bio Wheel Filter. I use a Aquarium Gravel Vacuum to clean the gravel. Various tools the clean away the algae. I had this tanks over two years. It was recommended for me to change the gravel out about 6 months ago, which I did. Everything else is as seen in the initial picture. I believe the issue has been a dirty retrieving net. I now have sanitize in a bleach and water bath. Since my water is testing in the normal range, and I have clean the net, I want to integrate fish into this tank. I'm looking for suggestions on anything I may be over-looking?

I've been aquarist for over 25 years. Only been taking care of cichlids for about 2 years.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would not trust any test result for nitrate that gives you zero as a result and says that is safe. If your tank is cycled, you should have a nitrate reading. Or maybe that was a typo?


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## 50_TANK_atl (Dec 12, 2017)

These are standard test strips, sold everywhere. The activated color on the strip shown as level. In my test it shows safe. The chart the come with the bottle shows safe as 0. These aren't electronic readings. Nevertheless my question was not addressed. I'll go back to trial and error. I love my tank so I'll keep working at it. Thanks for your thoughts.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I looked at your pic of your test results and it does appear that you do have a color change for the nitrate test which is at the top of the color chart.

What DJ was saying is that zero nitrate reading is usually a sign that the aquarium isn't fully cycled though a full water change or filter media change can also give you a zero nitrate reading. Most tanks that are mature or fully cycled have some level of nitrate over 10 PPM unless they are heavily planted with live plants that utilize nitrate in their growth.

It is also the experience of many aquarists that the test strip are either not as accurate as liquid reagent kits or may be comprised due to moisture, exposure to light or a shorter expiration date than other test types.

It is also possible that you suffered fish loss because they were sick prior to you getting them though the presence of ammonia (in your 1st post) may actually be the culprit. Large water changes alone should not have had an impact on the good bacteria needed to maintain healthy fish.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Agree. We would suggest you get the liquid reagent test kits because the results are much more helpful to you as a fishkeeper...no more trial and error.

I don't think it was a dirty net. And I would not introduce fish until you are sure the water is safe.


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## JRW81 (Mar 14, 2017)

Also there was probably a lot of beneficial bacteria in gravel and when you changed it that could've caused a mini cycle. Especially if you changed any filter media around the same time


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Have you tested your tap water to see what is in it?


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## 50_TANK_atl (Dec 12, 2017)

First these are some test strips I used with my other tank and I have no problem with the fish or the chemical level. This is also the same tap water for both tanks. The only different from the 30 gal and the 50 gal in question is I didn't do a 100% water change on the 30 gal nor did I used the net to put new fish in the tank. I performed the 100% water change 6 months ago. All of the fish died. From all the people I have talked to and chatted with on-line and even from the Google search results, a 100% change is something you should never do with african cichlids . Lesson learned. I've worked hard to get my tank water levels to normal. Yes I put fish in this tank several times since then and they die. From a veteran a aquarist I was told to change out the gravel so I did that. I let the tank set up for weeks with no fish, still filtering to gain maximum water level balance. I took my water and had it tested. This is something I do every time before I buy fish. If the balance isn't good I don't purchase fish. This last purchase, the water test out great. Got the fish home, floated the bag, poured the fish in the "net", put the fish in the tank. I waited an hour put a little food in the tank. The text morning the fish were dead. 
It dawned on me as I was taking the dead fish out of the tank, that I couldn't recall the last time I had cleaned this net.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

50_TANK_atl said:


> First these are some test strips I used with my other tank and I have no problem with the fish or the chemical level. This is also the same tap water for both tanks. The only different from the 30 gal and the 50 gal in question is I didn't do a 100% water change on the 30 gal nor did I used the net to put new fish in the tank. I performed the 100% water change 6 months ago. All of the fish died. From all the people I have talked to and chatted with on-line and even from the Google search results, a 100% change is something you should never do with african cichlids . Lesson learned. I've worked hard to get my tank water levels to normal. Yes I put fish in this tank several times since then and they die. From a veteran a aquarist I was told to change out the gravel so I did that. I let the tank set up for weeks with no fish, still filtering to gain maximum water level balance. I took my water and had it tested. This is something I do every time before I buy fish. If the balance isn't good I don't purchase fish. This last purchase, the water test out great. Got the fish home, floated the bag, poured the fish in the "net", put the fish in the tank. I waited an hour put a little food in the tank. The text morning the fish were dead.
> It dawned on me as I was taking the dead fish out of the tank, that I couldn't recall the last time I had cleaned this net.


There is absolutely no reason why you can't perform a 100% water change. As long as you treat the water with a dechlorinator before you add it you could do 100% water changes every single day and it wouldn't matter. In fact it would be beneficial. There is something else going on with your 50 gallon tank and my guess is that its not cycled yet.


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## 50_TANK_atl (Dec 12, 2017)

So a 6 month running tank would have not "cycled" by now or 2 weeks ago since lost the last fish? The filter system is rated 280 GPH (gallons per hour). For my tank that's 5.6 times cycled per hour. That times 6 months or the two weeks ago that I lost the last purchased fish. Give or tanks lol the math doesn't support your theory. Even if the filter rating is off by half.

My theory stands that it was contaminated bacteria infected net. I'm having the water tested tomorrow and I'll go on from there. Thanks again


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Unless you are adding ammonia, either by adding the chemical ammonia or having fish add ammonia from their waste (harms the fish though)...no the tank will not cycle. The beneficial bacteria need ammonia to grow.

I like to have my filters cycle the water 8X or more each hour. But all that filtration will not help at all if there is no beneficial bacteria growing on the filter media to remove toxins.

I do 100% water changes occasionally when I move a tank and do 75% weekly as a routine.

Sorry no one has been able to help so far, but maybe we can give you some new things to try.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Unless you are adding ammonia, either by adding the chemical ammonia or having fish add ammonia from their waste (harms the fish though)...no the tank will not cycle. The beneficial bacteria need ammonia to grow.


+1...
it does not matter if it is 6 months or a year beneficial bacteria need ammonia to survive and reproduce...
but it ill not happen in 2 weeks that is for sure...



50_TANK_atl said:


> My theory stands that it was contaminated bacteria infected net. I'm having the water tested tomorrow and I'll go on from there. Thanks again


it looks like you are really settled with your theory of the contaminated net...
you have had several different theories offered, hopefully you find the real culprit to the problem...
good luck...


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

What could possibly contaminate the net as it touches the same water your fish are in. Uncycled tank is more likely as has been mentioned.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

50_TANK_atl said:


> So a 6 month running tank would have not "cycled" by now or 2 weeks ago since lost the last fish? The filter system is rated 280 GPH (gallons per hour). For my tank that's 5.6 times cycled per hour. That times 6 months or the two weeks ago that I lost the last purchased fish. Give or tanks lol the math doesn't support your theory. Even if the filter rating is off by half.
> 
> My theory stands that it was contaminated bacteria infected net. I'm having the water tested tomorrow and I'll go on from there. Thanks again


"I let the tank set up for weeks with no fish, still filtering to gain maximum water level balance".

What is feeding the beneficial bacteria during this time? Were you adding ammonia daily to support it?
Without an ammonia source, the bacteria will die and the tank will need to be cycled again.

Sorry, I just realised there was a second page and this has already been mentioned.


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Your theory of a contaminated net is an interesting one but I've never heard of it happening before, to anyone. I don't buy it. Unless you dipped this net in cyanide right before you put it in the tank I seriously doubt that anything would or could have grown on it in such abundance to kill a tank full of fish. If that was the case you would have seen something on the net.


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## 50_TANK_atl (Dec 12, 2017)

Well the theory of pet store after they tested my water back then, was that my ammonia levels were too high for cichlids. This was from coming from the dead fish and the uneaten food. I was told to do 25% water and treat the water. After completing those suggestions which including vacuum the gravel, I had the water tested before I purchased fish and the water tested acceptable. I put fish in and the fish died. When I initially started this tank added the water, treated the water, added salt and waited about week before I added fish. Where was the ammonia added then?

All I know my fish thrived until the 100% water change. I'm trying to create the same environment for my fish the thrive again. The pet store has chart for cichlids that the give me each time I have my water tested. I only purchase fish when my water test accordingly to do so. I only purchase fish from one pet store and make sure I don't see dead fish in there tanks. I work around the corner from the store. I've watched clean the tanks, care for the fish. They know me and I feel I know them. The other fish stores my area usually have tanks that are too crowded, dead fish are present and just not as knowledgeable as "my" pet store.

I wasn't able to have my water tested today, perhaps tomorrow.


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

Your luck sounds even worse than mine! I would tend to agree with the others though that it would be unlikely to be a contaminated net. You mentioned that your contaminated net theory still stands yet you have not actually done a test to attempt to prove your theory incorrect. My suggested test for you to "prove your theory" is to dump most of the water out of the bag you buy the fish in and then just dump the fish into the tank without the net at all. My theory is the fish still dies.

It is possible that you have a tank running for 6 months without cycling; I had two that didn't cycle for 4 months after the addition of ammonia (you need to feed the bacteria to start the cycle) and had no idea what the problem was. I ended up buying one of those bacteria products that I hate but it definitely started my cycle going. Remember your target is 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 5-50ppm of nitrates; If you see that then your tank is probably cycled. I would check the pH of the water you have vs. the water from the fish shop also. Fish dieing after 8-ish hours is a pretty peculiar timing and I wonder if they are having trouble adjusting to a different water parameter.

BTW I am not a stickler about the strips vs the liquid kits. Use what you want; but the strips don't normally come with an ammonia test and that is going to be the most likely source of issues.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I can promise you that it's not a contaminated net... I have one that I've been using for years and it's never been cleaned. First off, if you're having ammonia trouble in an established tank, then you're under filtered and overstocked or you're over feeding. Also, many big box stores like petco and petsmart aren't exactly known for selling the best stock. There's no need to do 100% water changes unless you're willing to do it every single day and keep the temperature consistent, because it's too much of a shock to the fish and that's more than likely the reason why they keep dying, most definitely not a dirty net...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The problem with the strips in this case is that for nitrate, you don't know whether you have zero or 40ppm. Both are "safe" but one means the tank is not cycled and the other means it is but time for a partial water change.

With test tubes...you would know. No trial and error.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

Aaron S said:


> Remember your target is 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 5-50ppm of nitrates; If you see that then your tank is probably cycled.


+1..
but i would shoot to less than 20ppm...
   


Aaron S said:


> I would check the pH of the water you have vs. the water from the fish shop also. Fish dieing after 8-ish hours is a pretty peculiar timing and I wonder if they are having trouble adjusting to a different water parameter.


that can be possible but i doubt that is the reason...
   


Aaron S said:


> Use what you want; but the strips don't normally come with an ammonia test and that is going to be the most likely source of issues.


+1...
   


DJRansome said:


> The problem with the strips in this case is that for nitrate, you don't know whether you have zero or 40ppm. Both are "safe" but one means the tank is not cycled and the other means it is but time for a partial water change.


    


DJRansome said:


> but one means the tank is not cycled.


this been 0ppm


DJRansome said:


> and the other means it is but time for a partial water change.


been 20ppm or more...

remember that your target is 20ppm or less...
more than 20ppm and you need to do a water change, 30% -50% at least...
50% been the most recommended amount weekly...
:fish: :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## Crisco76 (Oct 2, 2017)

Must of been some deadly stuff in that net...


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