# sick Paralabidochromis sp. "Rock Kribensis" (Mwanz



## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

Ok, here's all the details.
75 gal
ph 8.0
ammo and nitrite 0
nitrate 40-80...(who can really tell the diff between such slight variations of color)
temp 79 F
kh 240
gh 180
Tank has been running for a couple of months and as you can see from the testing, well cycled
The tank has 2 emperor 400s and a c360 cannister filter.
to 18 " air stones
Plenty of places to hide
The tank mates were 3 nimbocromis venustus,3 yellow labs,5 colbalt blue zebras...
They all seemed to get along fine with the exception of the dominant venustus who is the jerk of the tank, but only moderately.
Here's the issue:

I noticed that my 3 rock kribs(2 f and 1 m) weren't eating, It started with one female not eating so I thought maybe she was holding...but that was not the case.She would continue to hide in one spot and wouldn't take food
The the other 2 started doing the same thing.
I removed them to a 20 gal long hospital tank.
That tank info is as follows.
ph 8.6
ammo and nitrite 0
nitrate 40
gh 180
kh240
temp 80
penguin 200 
12" air stone
Lots of cave and rocks
Added aquarium salt(1 tablespoon per 5 gal )
They are fed tetra cichlid sticks...which they seemed to enjoy.

They aren't showing any other sign of disease...just listless and not eating...laying around on the bottom of the tank.(by the way, 1 female just died  )
The other 2 still laying around doing nothing.
I did notice on one occasion that the male "appeared" to poop white...not exactly sure,but maybe.
I just remembered one thing, I did notice the male do a nervous "twitch" on occasion.

If i left out any pertinent info let me know.
Any help will be welcome
Thanks


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Sounds like bloat. Try treating them with Jungle Parasite Clear, asap. Do a 50% water change first. 
On the main tank: do a 50% water change with a good quality declorinator and siphon the gravel and then since bloat is contagious you really should treat that tank, too. Even if none of the fish are showing symptoms.

Ongoing aggression is stressful for your fish and may be partly to blame for allowing your fish to get bloat in the first place. Also 40ppm of Nitrate is high. Yes, nitrate isn't as harmful as ammonia and nitrite but continual high levels will weaken your fish and leave them susceptible to disease. Try doing more frequent partial water changes. (30%/weekly) Make sure you're using a good quality declorinator, one that removes ammonia and detoxifies nitrite. Prime and Amquel Plus will do it but there are a few others.

Robin


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

wow, its like we were speaking to each other telepathicly...hehe ..I just got back from lfs and I bought..Jungle parasite clear...Once again..wow.
I came to the same conclusion as you after reading the symptoms on the back of the Jungle product.
And...I was going to ask if I should dose my main tank as well...but...Once again you are ahead of me...(have you been talking to my wife?/ have a secret webcam in my fish room or what :wink: )

This is why I love this forum...
:thumb: :thumb: to all of you folks that make this happen.
I think it would be safe to say there would be a lot more dead fish if it wasn't for you GREAT folks.
Ok, but I still have a question.
Where/and how do these parasites get into the tank? and would it be a good idea to dose all new fish in a quarentine tank with parasite clear b4 introducing them into the main tank.
Thanks again.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> Where/and how do these parasites get into the tank? and would it be a good idea to dose all new fish in a quarentine tank with parasite clear b4 introducing them into the main tank.


Well some people do routinely treat new fish--especially wild caught and I don't argue with that practice accept that there are so many different parasites a fish might have and where not all meds work on all parasites the question is: what do you treat them with if you don't know what you're treating? Guess the answer would be to go with something like JPC, a med that's esspecially effective on many parasites and probably not quite as effective on others.

On bloat: bloat is thought to be caused by an intestinal flagellate that most, maybe all, fish already have. The flagellates reside harmlessly until the fish comes under some sort of stress. Then the flagellates multiply to such great numbers that they are no longer harmless and you start to see the symptoms of bloat: fish spits out food, fish stops eating, has stringy white or clear feces, becomes lethargic, etc. 
So with bloat the way to avoid it is to keep your tank well maintained and cared for. Keep the water pristene with weekly partial water changes, don't over feed or over stock, deal with any aggression issues before they turn into serious problems, etc.

And thanks for the kind words of appreciation. This IS a great place to come for us fish types

Robin


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

Ok the male is moving about more...a lot more of intense spasms going on, I going to go out on a limb here and says the increase in spasms is due to the meds trying to kill the parasite and they are trying to avoid the meds.
The female looks better, but still just laying around.

I do use amquel + for my declorinator
Ok, hospital tank water (50%) changed and dosed
75 gal 50% water change and dosed is done.
now the waiting game...I know it will vary..but when should I see a noticeable improvement of the rock kribs?

Ok, back to the nitrate discussion.
I am nothing more than guessing when it comes to reading those stupid slight variation of colors..lets see...is it this shade of pink or that shade of pink.or is it even pink at all? I have seen this frustration posted b4 here on this forum
Especially since the health of our fish depend on it. one would think that there would be a clear cut way of determining the EXACT value of the test being performed.( for us A.R. people)
The first person who can make a test kit that give me number instead of slightly varying hues of a color will get my money and probably be a very wealthy individual.

Ok, i'm done ranting, and wish you folks once again a great big thank you.


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

Well, the male and female both stopped twitching...the male has moved to the top of the tank..female still on bottom...I actually think I saw the male swim a bit also.
I'll try to post again tomorrow


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

pretty much as before...male has been spotted swimming and the female hasn't move from the same spot she was yesterday(at least from what I've seen.no spasms still...


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

Well, both are swimming every once and a while.They are mainly hanging out at the top of the tank.
I tried to see if they would take food but they are not ready yet.
Keep ya posted.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Well that's a good sign that they're still moving around. And all the water changes are helping, I'm sure.

You may need to do two rounds of the JPC.

On the nitrate tests: yes I hear your frustration. They are very hard to read.

Please do keep us posted.

Robin


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

well, major storms in this area and internet just came up ...anyway...
Both are moving around quite a bit...still seem a little out of it.
What do you know about the product Aquarium Products Clout ?
Before I picked up JPC locally, I was reading a good post on treatment w/ the clout product.
I was reading reviews here on cichlid-forum and it gets a great rating/staining of silicone a drawback, but who cares when the fish are sick and it's the hospital tank anyway.
Thanks for all the help...I believe the fish are on the road to recovery.
I let ya know when they start to accept food.
Thanks again!!!


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

Robin, did a 50% water change...re-dosed with JPC,
I noticed the female had white stringy feces...both are looking much better...swimming a bit,still don't want food though.(yes, I vacuum out the uneaten food each time)


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

That's fine to drop some food in there as a test and then vacuum it out.

Good news that they are looking better. I'd stay with what you're doing. They can go for weeks without food, no problem.

Robin


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

Nothing really has change..both alive and look like they are getting better.


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

Ok, they are both still alive..not much activity from either fish...switched treatment to one I found posted here:http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24132
After day 1 the fish were swimming around like it was cool.
Day 2. fish were really active...look like the fish I remember.
I will post throughout the process.
The Clout meds seem to be much more affective than the jungle parasite clear.
Didn't really stain up the tank as bad as I anticipated


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

Well things were going great until I did something really stupid,I grabbed the amquel + instead of prime when I was mixing up my 50 gals of water change water.
I dosed the water to the prime specs when I was using amquel....big difference...amquel is 5ml/10gal and prime is 5ml/50gal...needless to say I almost killed the fish as I was filling the tank I notice the fish super stressing(chlorine) and immediatley dosed the tank with amquel to the proper specs...
well today, I notice the female has ick now and the male was being lazy again.Time to start all over,morale of the story...read the directions instead of relying on memory.hopefully no permanent damage. time will tell.


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

well...so far they have made it thru my stupidity...seem to be doing ok..the male is swimming about, and occasionally I catch the female swimming.


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

both still alive


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

What are you doing for the ick? What symptoms did you notice for the ick?

Robin


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

And then there was 1,  The male who looked like he was going to pull thru gave up and died,the female was showing the crystal like structures on her and was treated with clout,all symptoms seem to be gone now.
she seems to be doing ok, we'll see if she starts to eat sometime soon.
thank so far Robin. :thumb:


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Sorry you lost him.

Let me know how it goes with the other one.

Robin


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

She was swimming around and ate just a very little bit,good sign any way


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

the female is still alive...swimming around ...somewhat aimlessly ....but still is swimming, but doesn't seem to be in full function.


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## mrcichlid1968 (Jun 15, 2008)

well, finally...she is swimming :fish: and eating like normal. :thumb: to you Robin for all your help.I was amazed how long a fish won't eat and not die.
This will close this saga,,,and on to the next battle..I hope not anyway.
thanks again


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