# Water clarity problems



## jwsland (Feb 11, 2011)

I wasn't sure where to post this but the description said "water" so here's my question.

I'm having water clarity issues. I switched over to pool filter sand a few weeks ago and recently got a Rena xp3 to run along with my aqua clear 70. I do weekly 30%'s and my light is off most of the day. My tank deco consists of river rock type stone. I only have 4 fish in the tank. Since the switch the water was great.

Two weeks ago lightly stirred my sand while doing a water change go release any debris or gas pockets. Ever since my water will not clear up. Its hazy and turning green. Since this problem I have been doing a 20% every two days with no luck of the water clearing up. The other day I did 50% it helped but 2 days later its bad again. I even removed all the rocks and cleaned them. The fish seem to be acting fine. I changed media in both the filters as well. :-?

PH 7.8
GH 180 ppm (aprox)
KH 240 ppm (aprox)
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0 (with all the water changes lately this is the first time I've been able to achieve absolute 0!  I usually have small traces)


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

Switching substrate, cleaning everything, and changing all your media probably removed most of the bacteria frrom your setup. water that is a little cloudy won't hurt anything. With only 4 fish(I am assuming they are small fish) you shouldn't have much bio load. Keep testing water and don't mess with anything unless ammonia or nitrIte get above 1ppm, then do a small water change and detox with prime.


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## killakam (Feb 26, 2011)

I had the same problem for like a whole week, go to your LFS they should have some white cloth type material that you put around your carbon media... its like a white fluffy cloths cost around 8 bucks makes your water crystal clear, cleared mine up over night.


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## sam6 (Feb 21, 2011)

get some purigen it made by seachem.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

purigen is for impurities, not for particulate matter - which is what this sounds like.

however, go ahead and get it, but also get the quilt batting/fluffy stuff and run that for a while.


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## jwsland (Feb 11, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. In my xp3 I'm already using 20, 30ppi and their super micro filtration pads. Wouldn't that catch the smallest particulate?


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

If this is a 1-time thing, ie, historically you've not had particulate issues - I would use Seachem Clarity.

Just remember to change your filter shortly after using it - as it will get dirty/clogged REAL fast.


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## jwsland (Feb 11, 2011)

I got some seachem clarity today. Used the recommended dosage. Waited two hours, water looked worse. I cleaned the filters out and hooked them back up, no luck yet. 4 hours later the water is still very cloudy. Hopefully tonight it clears up.


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

Did you test today for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate?


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## jwsland (Feb 11, 2011)

A- 0
N- 0
Nitrate- a little over 80 wtf? :-?

Along with the seachem I purchased a box of fluval bio rings. Currently I only have the Rena (api) bio stars that came with the filter in there. There's only about 8-10 of them. Should I wait to add the fluval rings?

When I did the filters after adding the seachem, I washed out all the pads (they were filthy, especially the super micro filtration pad) and put a new carbon pouch in the rena.


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

Did you wash the sand before you put it in the tank?


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## jwsland (Feb 11, 2011)

I washed the sand extremely well. About 2hrs of washing little by little in a 5gallon bucket. The tank was perfect (my avatar picture) until I lightly stirred the sand while doing a water change. I used 3/4 of the previous water when I set the tank up.


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

Ok, then I go back to my original reply and say keep testing ammonia and nitrite, and stop messing with it, be patient, and it should fix itself. Water clarifiers don't fix problems, they mask them, or more often add to them. You shouldn't have to add anything to your water but dechlor.


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## jwsland (Feb 11, 2011)

Ok, would adding the bio rings for added biological filtration at this point help at all? Or wait until it clears up to add them?

Also, since I already added the seachem once should I re-clean the filter pads tonight or tomorrow morning since they will clog up quicker now?

No water change even with the nitrates being over 80?

I didn't misread you last post saying "stop messing with it" :lol: sorry for all the questions!


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## seattle_530 (Mar 6, 2007)

Go get some algae killer and put the recommended dose in. Should solve your problem. When you stirred your substrate you released alot food for algae and that caused a bloom and thats why you have green water. The reason why it got worse after you used clarity is because there is alot of phosphate in those chemicals which algae also feed off of.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

jwsland said:


> I got some seachem clarity today. Used the recommended dosage. Waited two hours, water looked worse. I cleaned the filters out and hooked them back up, no luck yet. 4 hours later the water is still very cloudy. Hopefully tonight it clears up.


Holy cow dude, wait 24 hours. It's not instant!


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

shellies215 said:


> Ok, then I go back to my original reply and say keep testing ammonia and nitrite, and stop messing with it, be patient, and it should fix itself. Water clarifiers don't fix problems, they mask them, or more often add to them. You shouldn't have to add anything to your water but dechlor.


They do if you caused a stir with your substrate causing the debris in the water. This just hurries the clarification process.

My water conditions are great, I have no cloudiness issues - UNLESS I start stirring things up like taking all the rocks out, etc. It takes a while for all that to settle, a few days even - and I have used Clarity now and again for a quick fix. It works just fine - it does what it says.

I never said do it just because it's cloudy - it doesn't fix what caused it. It just fixes the condition. If you have algae, you're going to have algae again.

Don't be so dismissive just because this particular user used the product (or had unrealistic expectations) wrong.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

jwsland said:


> No water change even with the nitrates being over 80?


Over 80 won't hurt short term. However, you should do a 50% water change very soon.


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## jwsland (Feb 11, 2011)

Glaneon said:


> Holy cow dude, wait 24 hours. It's not instant!


Going by what you said I expected better results sooner.



Glaneon said:


> Just remember to change your filter shortly after using it - as it will get dirty/clogged REAL fast.





Glaneon said:


> Don't be so dismissive just because this particular user used the product (or had unrealistic expectations) wrong.


I used the recommend product as instructed by its directions. Not wrong imo. My expectations were developed by what you said about how soon I will need to clean my filters.

I'll try a 50% soon. Thanks.


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

Yes, you can do your water changes, and yes you can add your biomax, but keep your old bio. (you can add to it, don't replace it)

If you start from the beginning of this thread, It has been recommended that the OP buy water polishing pads, purigen, clarity, and algea killer.

The OP made a lot of changes (substrate, media, and cleaning) all at once. The water cloudiness could be particulate, bacteria bloom, or diatom/algae bloom. My suggestion was to test water and be patient because 95% of the time, the tank will reach a natural balance on it's own.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

Yes, I did say soon. I thought the directions on the bottle said 24 hours (or next day).
I didn't have the bottle in front of me, so I couldn't confirm.

( However, your expections were a bit unreasonable for any product! 

Shellies, yes, he's been recommended to do a few things., some of which would not help (purigen, which isn't cheap!).

I took what he said he did, that it was fine before and now he's stirred it up - he did that... if it was fine before, then trapping the particulates in the filtration and letting him rinse it out - that's the best answer.

It's not a balance/tank issue, he stirred it up. Yes, it would probably get back to normal in 2 weeks, but obviously, by posting, he would like it done sooner.


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

Glaneon, I never said your advice was bad, or wrong. It's just that I feel chemicals/additives are rarely a good solution. I have sand in 3 tanks, and have never had any cloudiness after the first few hours, however I am not using PFS, so I guess I can't compare.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

I have PFS in 1 tank (considering going to it in my 125 though) - and no cloudiness issues myself so I doubt the PFS itself is the issue.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

shellies215 said:


> Glaneon, I never said your advice was bad, or wrong. It's just that I feel chemicals/additives are rarely a good solution. I have sand in 3 tanks, and have never had any cloudiness after the first few hours, however I am not using PFS, so I guess I can't compare.


I agree and have never had much luck with additives. When I experience cloudy water, it's usually a bacterial bloom. I have used and am currently using activated carbon as a water polisher in my cannister filter. This usually clears up the issue, but I'm aslo turning my tank volume over about 10X per hour. I also have PFS. I rinsed it for 5 minutes before adding it and my water was clear the same day, so I don't think the PFS is the issue. Nitrate levels of 80PPM    - way too high. This is the level where my fish have started to experience health issues in the past. Remember, the Rift lakes have no detectable levels of Nitrate, or Ammonia/Nitrite. When my nitrates get up to 20PPM, I do a 50% water change to get them back down under 10PPM an keep the bacterial blooms and algae growth down. At 80PPM, I would do an 80-90% W/C, quit messing with additives and up your mechanical filtration. If you are having issues when you stir up the sand, then you probably need to vacuum more or add some powerheads for water movement. I prefer to keep all this stuff stirred up so that it gets sucked into my filters which also means that I clean my pre-filters (3 layers of floss) every week.

Good luck,

Jon


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## jwsland (Feb 11, 2011)

Today, around 24hrs after adding the seachem clarity the water looked worse. Tonight I did a 50% because I was really worried about the nitrate level. Its now down to 20. The water clarity improved a little bit with the water change but its far from clear.

Am- 0
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- 20ppm
KH- approx 220ppm
GH- approx 160ppm
PH- 7.6


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## jwsland (Feb 11, 2011)

Still no luck with my water clearing up. I added a box of fluval bio rings to the canister filter. Other than that I haven't done anything to the tank since my last post.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

I would do 80% water changes until it clears up. Your fish will be fine as long as you add the appropriate dechlorinators and buffers. It really sounds like a bacterial bloom was brought on by all of the changes to the tank. I wouldn't mess with stuff like bio rings in your filter as it will take several weeks for bacteria to colonize on them and take longer for the tank to balance itself. If anything, focues on your mech filtration and maybe add some activated carbon to polish the water. If you do use carbon, add it at the end of your filter (top of a cannister) so that the tank water is not run throught the carbon prior to the bio-filters. That way the ammonia/nitrate will still feed the beneficial bacteria in your filters. I only use carbon in small amounts as a water polisher with a stable, cycled tank. Also, don't add too much prime and use it to de-toxify the ammonia in your tank. This will starve the bacteria and really mess with your bio-cycle as well. It can be tough to pinpoint the cause for cloudy water, but everything should work itself out if you stay away from the quick fix products and keep up with water changes.

Good luck,

Jon


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

Here's what I'm seeing:

If _Clarity_ doesn't clear it up for at least 3-4 days - then there's not enough mechanical filtration/flow (to capture the particulates that the Clarity binds to). I'm not saying it will resolve a condition (biological) that exists that will cause cloudiness - but I know from experience this stuff works great.

Like F_A said above, adding biorings will not change/help the cloudiness.

Personally, I've never heard of carbon used for polishing water. I can see, if it's fine enough - it could act as that, but only in-so-much as it's just a fine/small object for water to pass around - not the material itself.

If you added Clarity - you will need to rinse your mechanical media - whatever media you do have will be gummed up with stuff - if it's not, you didn't add enough Clarity. If it is, it did it's job, but your mechanical media (sponges) can only do so much.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

I've had luck using carbon to clear up the water when there is a fine haze or cloudy conditions. But like Glaneon said, it may be just packed in enough that it's trapping the particles and I'm wasting my money. +Mech filtration seems to be the way to go.


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## jwsland (Feb 11, 2011)

I added the rings because with all the cleaning I did I think I eliminated too much beneficial bacteria. And when I setup the rena I only put in their small pack of bio stars. I knew that wouldn't be the fix but they needed to go in sooner than later.

I tried changing the activated carbon twice in the early stages of this problem with no luck.

The bottom section of the canister has been packed to capacity with 30 and 20ppi pads and the top has 2 pads, micro and super micro pads. I rinsed them after using the clarity. They all were pretty nasty. I replaced the micro pads a couple days later.

Should I be using more pads? I don't really have room for any more. The water parameters are staying stable, the fish are acting fine.

I'm confused at this point on what I should be doing. A lot of water changes? It makes sense to me but that might keep the water TOO clean and prevent any beneficial bacteria from being able to form. Like when I over cleaned the tank when my problem first occurred.

In the meantime I'll make sure the pads are clean and keep an eye on the water parameters.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

Just rinse the pads when they get dirty, use tank water if your water isn't pre-dechlorinated.

Unless you actually killed all your bacteria in your biomedia - you probably didn't do enough damage to your tank.

Give it a while to catch up.

Using the clarity is really more for aesthetics, not for fixing a problem - that, my friend - is likely only to be fixed by waiting.


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## redfish (Nov 30, 2002)

I added a big whole house filter 20" big blue and my problems are gone. I put it on discharge
side of my sump you can get filter for sediment etc and wash them with a house over again.
a lot better than messing with cotton, good luck.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

redfish said:


> I added a big whole house filter 20" big blue and my problems are gone. I put it on discharge
> side of my sump you can get filter for sediment etc and wash them with a house over again.
> a lot better than messing with cotton, good luck.


So what type of media is in the filter?


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

Don't even put your hand in your aquarium or touch a filter for 72 hours.

Do a 5% daily water change & no more until things begin to stabilize.

It's obvious a majority of your beneficial bacteria was in your substrate. You most likely where growing a great deal of anaerobic bacteria in your pool filter sand bed. You stirred it up, exposed it to oxygen & it all died; thus giving you the nitrate spike. Sand beds work much differently than gravel substrate. They are very stable becasue they are very slow to change.

I'm guessing this is your first experience running a sand substrate. Most folks say they changed over to sand and talk about all the positive results, but the leave out the minute details that could have caused problems. Do some research on running a deep sand bed & I'm sure you'll find the cause & solution to your problem. I run a sand substrae & it works wonderfully, but I never run it over 1.5 to 2 inches deep & the reason is because oxygen/water current can still penetate that depth; preventing the anaerobic bacteria from ever growing there. I have ran both fresh & salt water tanks with deep sand beds, they work great as well if you've done your research.

Thin skin won't help your tank issue. Glaneon is walking you through a respectable solution. I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth :wink:


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Well there you go. Maybe DIYhunter knows something about sand beds. My pool filter sand is 3-4" deep, but I have alot of current blowing it around, plus I stir it up once a week. My only question is in regards to the 5% daily w/c. Is this so that enough Ammonia and Nitrites stay in the tank to feed the bio filters? What about the anerobic bacterial die-off that caused the spike? Wouldn't you want to get the Nitrates back down to manageable levels?


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## DIYhunter (Mar 3, 2011)

fish_addiction said:


> My only question is in regards to the 5% daily w/c. Is this so that enough Ammonia and Nitrites stay in the tank to feed the bio filters? What about the anerobic bacterial die-off that caused the spike? Wouldn't you want to get the Nitrates back down to manageable levels?


Yes, you answered your own question. This is so the ammonia & nitrites continue to develop which will feed the bacteria attached to the filter media, glass, substrate & decor. At the same time reduce the nitrates ppm which mainly remains suspended in the water. Again the anaerobic bacteria die off will be removed & the nitrate level will work it's way back down to a healthier fish level. Lastly, this applies to this particular situation.


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

It makes sense - Letting the tank fix itself with minor intervention. So many time we use drastic measures when patience is the key ingredient.


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## Swerved (Mar 9, 2011)

If there's but one thing I've learned about this hobby, it's that it is a patient person's game. I've gone through similar issues with my tank in the past and have had to fight the urge to mess with it to try to remedy it. If your water quality is good, it will take care of itself.


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## dotbomb (Jan 5, 2011)

Waiting is a big portion of the algae/cloudy water treatments listed on this page

http://www.rexgrigg.com/Algae1.html


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