# Help. My cichlids hide from me.



## Zappletini (May 20, 2020)

Hi. I need a little help. I have a 75 gallon tank with 2 electric yellows, 1 electric blue, 2 red parrots, and a pleco. Everytime anyone goes near the tank, they hide. It was suggested to me to get a school of Austrailian rainbows to act as dither fish to help gain confidence in the cichlids. So, I got 8 of them and my cichlids at least now watch during feeding time, but still do not come out. My tank was fully cycled prior to adding fish and I have had the rainbow school for 3 weeks & the cichlids I have had for 2 months. I have attached a photo of my tank from across the room since no cichlids will come out if I'm closer. Any suggestion is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the tank?

If you could only keep the parrots or the rainbows or the africans, which would you keep?


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## Zappletini (May 20, 2020)

Tank is 48" long x 18" wide x 20" tall. I would keep the Africans if I had to choose. I only got the rainbows to act as dither fish.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

For best odds of success I would do 4 species with 1m:4f of each.

1m:4f yellow labs
1m:4f electric blue (Do you know the scientific name? A couple of different fish are sold as electric blue. I could not see the fish well in the pic.)

The remaining 2 species would depend on what the electric blue is.


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## Zappletini (May 20, 2020)

I do not. They were all grouped together as "assorted africans". I attached a picture of the blue as he was not in the first pic I posted. I think it may be a hap.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

I have the same problem. I somehow overcame it last time I added a couple fish, but they eventually went back to hiding. It's really annoying.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Its all about right fish, right tank. Zapp, since you don't really know what ANY of your cichlids are for sure because they are from the assorted tank, I would add six yellow labs and see if the larger group makes them comfortable enough to come out.

Don't save fry from the tank.


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## Zappletini (May 20, 2020)

Thanks for your help. I will add a few more yellow labs to better stock my tank and see if that helps. Thanks again!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Shoot for 20 fish overall not counting the pleco. So 6-7 labs...less might not do the trick.

Then if they are still hiding consider replacing the parrots with africans as well.


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## Zappletini (May 20, 2020)

Awesome! Thank you so much!


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## Cosi (Apr 1, 2020)

Is the tank in high traffic area where people are frequently walking close to the tank? Mbuna are aware and they seem to recognize faces. You could try training them with food. I had a similar problem after I introduced some farm raised F1 mbuna to an established tank in a high traffic area. This is what worked for me. I tried assorted foods until I found one they couldnt resist - Repashy Soilent Green. The fish would bolt out for this food but immediately go back to cover. Once they started eating, I increased the feeding frequency to small amounts 3-4 times a day with NLS and Repashy. I phased out the Repashy to once a day but kept high frequency feeding with NLS. Then I cut the feeding to twice a day and they became the typical beggars when the top of the tank was opened. So basically (1) find a healthy food they cant resist, (2) feed frequently to train them, (3) phase in your desired staple food, and (4) cut feedings to increase appetite.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

Cosi said:


> Is the tank in high traffic area where people are frequently walking close to the tank? Mbuna are aware and they seem to recognize faces. You could try training them with food. I had a similar problem after I introduced some farm raised F1 mbuna to an established tank in a high traffic area. This is what worked for me. I tried assorted foods until I found one they couldnt resist - Repashy Soilent Green. The fish would bolt out for this food but immediately go back to cover. Once they started eating, I increased the feeding frequency to small amounts 3-4 times a day with NLS and Repashy. I phased out the Repashy to once a day but kept high frequency feeding with NLS. Then I cut the feeding to twice a day and they became the typical beggars when the top of the tank was opened. So basically (1) find a healthy food they cant resist, (2) feed frequently to train them, (3) phase in your desired staple food, and (4) cut feedings to increase appetite.


This is an excellent suggestion. Everyone else has focussed on what's _inside_ the tank, but the problem might be what's on the _outside_. It sounds to me like your fishes are getting spooked. Dithers can help with that, but sometimes you need to change the external environment as well.

I have been keeping wild-caught Tanganyikan featherfins and sand-sifters for some time; fishes that are notorious for being skittish and taking a long time to 'settle in.' These fishes simply cannot be kept in high traffic areas. I've also noticed that locating the tank across from a bright window can be a problem, because anything that passes in front of the window- even me at feeding time- spooks the fishes. Think about what the fishes are seeing from inside the tank, and make an effort to make everything less startling. All my WC fishes are now in subdued areas of the fishroom, and I am careful to move gently around them. It took some time, but these efforts have made a huge difference. Good luck.


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## Zappletini (May 20, 2020)

I will definitely try different foods too for training. All of the fish are out and about all day and only hide when a person gets to about a foot from the tank, so they're only getting spooked by people. My cats don't even phase them. The tank is not in a high traffic area and I have black out curtains on the windows, so I will start making sure they are closed during the day. Thanks so much for all of the great advice. I truly appreciate it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

As implied, fish I have kept (all three lakes, but not featherfins) will adjust to what is outside the tank in short order and come out of their territories and start rushing the surface when I even approach the doorway to the ROOM, let alone get close. I feed everyone the same food and have been consistent for 15 years.

If they are comfortable inside, they will adapt to outside IME.


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## ken31cay (Oct 9, 2018)

DJRansome said:


> If they are comfortable inside, they will adapt to outside IME.


This has also been my experience. If they're in a well maintained ('clean') environment, with appropriate decor and in sufficient numbers, then they do not hide from people.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> If they are comfortable inside, they will adapt to outside IME.


With fearless Malawi cichlids, it is very seldom a problem. But the Op also has "parrot" cichlids in the tank, as well. Cichlids do take their cues from other cichlids, so sometimes the scared cichlids make the Malawi cichlids scared, not the other way around. My suggestion to the OP is to add a group of Giant Danios. In terms of the dither role, IMO there is nothing better. Keep the "rainbows" if you like, if they are doing well enough, but IMO they really are not good dithers. In my cichlid tanks they were scared sh1tless of even young, small cichlids and were really useless as dithers. May be full grown of certain species, but not you're run of the mill "rainbows" from the LFS.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

BC do you think the danios work better than more mbuna?


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

ken31cay said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> > If they are comfortable inside, they will adapt to outside IME.
> ...


Depends on what you mean by '_they_.' There are fishes that are quite boisterous in captivity, to which your generalization would hold, and there are fishes that are shy and skittish in aquaria, to which it would not. Many wild-caught fishes fall into the latter category, at least initially. They all require good husbandry, but you can't turn a skittish fish into a boisterous one simply by changing the water chemistry. Fishes do learn over time, however, and even my initially very skittish wild-caught _Ophthalmotilapia nasuta_ 'Kipili Gold' (shown below) are now well-accustomed to captivity, and greet me at feeding time. It took about a year for that to happen. :thumb:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No experience with wild caught except Synodontis. I prefer tank bred from a vendor I trust.


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## ken31cay (Oct 9, 2018)

sir_keith said:


> ken31cay said:
> 
> 
> > DJRansome said:
> ...


'they' meaning african cichlids in general discussion. My experience with wilds has been similar to what you wrote, eventually I see no difference.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

So, back to the original point here, my advice to the OP would be to lose the 'red parrots' (whatever they are), and to add an appropriately chosen collection of young Mbuna to this 75 gallon tank. Good luck. =D>


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

sir_keith said:


> So, back to the original point here, my advice to the OP would be to lose the 'red parrots' (whatever they are), and to add an appropriately chosen collection of young Mbuna to this 75 gallon tank. Good luck. =D>


Plus one.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> BC do you think the danios work better than more mbuna?


Looking specifically at only the dither role, IME, yes, I do think Giant Danios are second to none. I've had a couple instances that has made me recognize this. Sometimes all it takes is just the one cichlid to be scared....and the rest might follow. Giant Danios will be completely unphased by a scared cichlid and will swim the tank regardless. Now, in my cichlid tanks, they have actually not lasted long term. I have purchased over 30+ over the last number of years and none have managed to last more then 3-4 years. But I have kept them with fish that are capable of swallowing full grown whole, and though not a likely swallow, does happen over time. I have grown them just shy of 4" total length, but they are only a 10 gram fish,and not spiny rayed so quite a bit easier swallow then a 4" cichlid with would be around 20 gram (or so) and full of hard spines on the dorsal and anal fin. Also witnessed them being killed by cichlids; on the receiving end of their deadly aggression.
Now, more mbuna may very well solve the problem, as well.


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## Zappletini (May 20, 2020)

So... I added 6 more mbuna to my tank on Friday. I timed their release into the tank to coincide with feeding time. My current tank residents came out immediately to check out what was going on and joined in on the feeding session. Then I stood there for about an hour just watching them. Yesterday, the old residents hid initially, but came out when they saw the new fishes begging for food. Today, everyone, including the parrots, swim over to the side of the tank to greet me when I enter the room. Thanks again for all of the help and advice. I'm obsessed with my fishes and their newly found confidence.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Excellent! Hopefully you added all 6 as yellow labs so you would have at least one homogenous group that will not fight over time and send everyone back into hiding next year.


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