# Am I just a texas cichlid sold incorrectly?



## mrbonzai211 (Nov 24, 2014)

I'm pretty sure this is a texas cichlid now I see it in my tank. It was sold to me as something else which I believed at the time because they were a completely different color at the store, which I assume is a sign of how stressed they were from the store conditions. Can anyone confirm this is a texas and not what they told me it was.


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

what was it sold to u as?


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## mrbonzai211 (Nov 24, 2014)

They had electric blue acara and these guys labelled as blue acare.... which I knew they weren't. I got a 4 and 5 inch specimen identical to him for $3.49 each. It looks nothing like any TC I've ever seen, however, since it was white from stress I when I bought I thought it was either something I haven't seen before (which is rare because I've collected for 21 years), or it may be a Pearl cichlid (the Geophagus genus not the Acara). Obviously that is no Geophagus sp. What I do know is that they have the traditional tail spot and body spot for TCs and the larger male is also starting to develop a cranial bump. I'm not seeing the 3 black bars I'm used to seeing on TC this age tho, and the face and mouth just don't look right to me. The distance between the mouth and the beginning of the ventral fins seems wrong, the general body sheep seems too broad, and the the way it holds it's fins at resting position is starkly different. I havent kept South American cichlids in over a decade, so my information is fuzzy.

I understand that in the past 10 years there have been species collected from new regions and waterways, so a degree of variation exists now compared to what I had around me when this cichlid species was my primary hobby. This very well may be a legit texas cichlid, but to me it looks like a texas cichlid mixed with Aequidens pulcher aka blue acara... which coincidentally is kinda what they sold it me as, a "blue acara."


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

mrbonzai211 said:


> This very well may be a legit texas cichlid, but to me it looks like a texas cichlid mixed with Aequidens pulcher aka blue acara...


It's either a Texas or Texas hybrid.
It appears to have orange on the pectoral fin(?) though not sure whether this is just how the picture is showing the fish or is truly representative of what the fish looks like (?). Based on this picture, that is about the only thing that is inconsistent with what a Texas cichlid looks like. Post some better pictures and it may be more obvious whether or not the fish is a hybrid. Though it is seldom possible to determine the precise mix.
A CA cross with an Acara is more then unlikely. It has yet to be shown to be possible. However, all CA cichlids (with the exception of _Andinoacara coeruleopuctatus_ and _Geophagus crassillibris_) can hybridize and are fairly common in the hobby. 
One fairly common CA hybrid in the hobby is called a "Red Texas". It does not breed true....spews out all kinds. This "type" is supposed to look like a Texas but have a red or orange color. The red or orange color does not develop until the fish is somewhat past the small juvie stage. The breeder is supposed to know at a young age, which are likely to develop the desired traits and then cull the rest. I believe (IMO) what is sold at the box stores are what the breeders have determined less likely to aquire the desired "Red Texas" traits. Different breeders are likely to have different crosses that produce a similar looking fish, utilizing either midas/RD or blood parrots to get the orange/red color from the "fader" gene. If your fish is a hybrid, this is the likely source......a cross that produces a certain % red texas. In fact, if it is the source, your fish still has a chance of turning the desired orange coloration.
A lot of times at an LFS, fish are sold out but the label still remains on the tank for some time . Some box stores have sliding cards, that can make for some confusion of which small tank has that particular fish. Coupled with the fact, that the vast majority of people who work at an LFS know virtually nothing about cichlids, and lots of fish can get sold under the wrong name.


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## mrbonzai211 (Nov 24, 2014)

Yeah you are probably right... I havent had this fish since maybe 1996ish, so in that time it's been bred on farms with someone (like you say) pulling individuals with desirable traits to breed their next generations. I assume we have a more "perfect" TC nowadays than I did back then. Maybe what I see as wrong is just the absence of wild traits that weren't as visually appealing to hobbyists.... On a side note, are they so plentiful now that 4-5 inch specimens sell for only $3.49 each? The store I got them from I don't buy fish because they have completely unreasonable prices. It's extremely odd that that I could buy two of them for the same price as their next cheapest fish. This place WAY overcharges for their fish, it's literally almost criminal. For instance, they sell Neolamprologus brichardi for $29.99 (I got mine for $8 at a LFS), ghost shrimp are $1.39 (if you pay more than 11 cents you are being ripped off), and Denison Barbs labelled as Roseline Shark for, I kid you not, $24.99 for 1.5 inch or smaller juvies.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

mrbonzai211 said:


> completely unreasonable prices.


Silly notion. Depends on the market. What are people williing to sell it for and what are people willing to pay.
Can't remember what I paid for my first Texas bit it was a large old mature female. at least 5 $ bucks in the mid 70's :lol:


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

mrbonzai211 said:


> Yeah you are probably right... I havent had this fish since maybe 1996ish, so in that time it's been bred on farms with someone (like you say) pulling individuals with desirable traits to breed their next generations. I assume we have a more "perfect" TC nowadays than I did back then. Maybe what I see as wrong is just the absence of wild traits that weren't as visually appealing to hobbyists.... On a side note, are they so plentiful now that 4-5 inch specimens sell for only $3.49 each? The store I got them from I don't buy fish because they have completely unreasonable prices. It's extremely odd that that I could buy two of them for the same price as their next cheapest fish. This place WAY overcharges for their fish, it's literally almost criminal. For instance, they sell Neolamprologus brichardi for $29.99 (I got mine for $8 at a LFS), ghost shrimp are $1.39 (if you pay more than 11 cents you are being ripped off), and Denison Barbs labelled as Roseline Shark for, I kid you not, $24.99 for 1.5 inch or smaller juvies.


stop shopping at petsmart and u wont run into those prices. funny but u pretty much nailed petco fish prices right on the head. u have spent most of your post explaining how experienced u are and justifying why u are unsure of what u have there. the fact that u buy at a big box store is reason enough to not be suprised that u got a mislabeled hybrid. sry to sound mean, but i call em like i see em


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## mrbonzai211 (Nov 24, 2014)

I got at a regional chain that only exists in the greater area of the city i live in.... I buy my crickets there only... I purchased 2 fish i was curious about because my girlfriend REALLY wanted them for the south american cichlid tank I've been building for her. I had no idea what they were because they were literally completely white in the store. I assumed they were possibly pearl cichlids (there are maybe 6 or more cichlids i know of that go by that generic name), not a TC or the acara they had it labelled at. I did not realize the length and breadth of my mistake until their color came back in my tank. I am going to keep them as a "Texas Cichlid sp.?" But no, this is not my LFS, i just buy my crickets there cuz they give me 200 count for $9.99


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## mrbonzai211 (Nov 24, 2014)

sumthinfishy said:


> mrbonzai211 said:
> 
> 
> > stop shopping at petsmart and u wont run into those prices. funny but u pretty much nailed petco fish prices right on the head. u have spent most of your post explaining how experienced u are and justifying why u are unsure of what u have there. the fact that u buy at a big box store is reason enough to not be suprised that u got a mislabeled hybrid. sry to sound mean, but i call em like i see em


so dude, do u ever wonder why this forum has almost no active members? just call em like i see em


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## mrbonzai211 (Nov 24, 2014)

Forgot to ask, does anyone have any experience dithering with these fish?

I got a bunch of wood and plants to break up the line of sight as much as possible and I added expendable dither fish to a.) use their activity to provide the suggestion to the TC that the area is safe and to discourage aggressive/defensive behavior due to an environment that they may feel threatened in and b.) if aggression does present itself the dither fish will be the easiest targets and the aggression will be spread among them so hopefully no casualties happen (but even if they do, they are dither fish so who cares)


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

exactly.


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## mrbonzai211 (Nov 24, 2014)

double exactly.... times two


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## mrbonzai211 (Nov 24, 2014)

Talked to wholesaler, said they were failed specimens from farm trying for texas reds. Full blood TC 100%. Savings account started today for 120 gallon I will need in 4-6 months. Purchased tank separators in case I need them, got tons of tall broad leaf plants and pieces of wood to break up line of sight as much as possible, and increased the school size of adult tiger barbs to about 14 (best dither fish, works best with shy african cichlids but seems to work with central american as long as they are fairly equal in size and not seen as food). Also, already made arrangements in case the smaller one turns out male as well.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Glad you got to the bottom of it. Are you finding the barbs nippy?


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## mrbonzai211 (Nov 24, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Glad you got to the bottom of it. Are you finding the barbs nippy?


as long as you have more than 7 then they wont nip.... with african cichlids they can live there indefinitely, with new world cichlids they need to be removed once maturity starts. I actually lost a couple to a rapheal cat i thought died over a year ago, so he has been rehomed.

This is a REALLY old technique.... if you plan on trying it, PM me so I can explain how it works, why it works, and what accommodations you will need to make it work. A lot of it works by understanding the psychology of the fish species in general, and the psychology of the individual fish. You must also have a backup tank in case you have an individual fish that is overly aggressive for that species (which can be common in farmed fish because it's harder to control the gene pool and aggressive genes can be passed easily to the entire community). Also, the community needs to be in place before the dominant cichlid goes in. If the cichlid is first, he will defend his territory. If he goes in last, when he claims the territory he will claim the other fish as part of his territory, and if you add more fish after that he will kill them to protect his territory and protect the fish that are part of his territory. Those fish arent cohabitants, they are literally his and he owns them like property.

My dominant male TC has actually started using dominant behavior against me when im in his tank to protect the other fish from me (he doesnt know my presence means food yet)

Funny thing is, I forgot my brichardi was in there before i added him, went to take him out, and found out they live together side by side in the burrow he dug... he defends my small brichardi against anyone else that comes near him. I've never seen behavior like that in 17 years I've been collecting.

I'm actually keeping a spreadsheet to document the unique behavior I've been observing.... in no world should 2 TCs, a jack dempsey, brichardi, blue acara, and key hole cichlid live without even the slightest amount of aggression. I keep trying to find excuses to do what I logically know is right and split them up, but I'm incredibly curious about the social dynamic i accidentally constructed. They don't hide, they don't exhibit signs of stress, their color is immaculate, they feed well, and I can't identify a single aspect that they are living in a sub par environment.

I have the tank for the keyhole, brichardi, and acara to go to but I'm holding off until this situation starts to make more sense.

Anyone have any insight? Especially since the TC is treating the brichardi like it's offspring.


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