# Bolivian Ram tank/plant help please



## NYjets51

I want to set up a 55 gal tank with bolivian rams, angels, and tetras maybe. I never had to worry about plants keeping mbuna, but I would like to try to keep live plants.
1.) What are some good easy plants to keep that will fill out a 55 gallon aquarium
2.) What kind of light should I use? Can anyone recomend a good, fairly inexpensive one?
3.) What kind of substrate is best? I like natural looking, not plastic gravel
Am I missing anything? Is there anything else I need for keeping plants?


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## NYjets51

bump


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## blairo1

I recommend sand as the substrate, although for planted tanks this supposedly isn't ideal, I 
actually find it much easier to grow plants in sand and their root systems are expansive as any 
I've grown in specialist substrate (even root feeders) - all I do is stir in fertilization tablets which
have been crushed up/alternately I use Red Seas Substrate Enricher (good stuff) and basically 
just mix that all the way through your sand. I haven't been using any ferts (water column or 
substrate) on this tank for a while now:
http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... anted+tank

Not to mention how much easier it is to keep a clean tank with sand, especially once plants are 
in there as you have to take into account they drop leaves/collect debris etc and in gravel this 
all builds up - with sand it all keeps moving until its broken up and sucked into the filters or at 
the least is very easily removed. Plus, you intend to keep Microgeophagus (name means 
small/tiny earth eater - ie sand sifter).

Here's my favourite plant list for an easy planted tank:

Most plants I split into the smaller groups, or separate individuals and plant them this way, gives
them better space and chance at rooting well.

Floating plants:_
Japanese Riccia
Salvinia Ariculata_

Back/Sides:
_Hygrophila rosae Australis
Hygrophylia Polysperma
Cyperus helferi
Echinodorus africanus
Ludwigian Natans
Hydrilla Verticiliata
Mayaca fluviatilis
Camboba Caroliana
Ludwigia Mullertii_

Mid:
_Cryptocoryne wendtii Green
Eleocharis vivipara
Vallisneria spiralis
Aponogeton Crispus
Rotala Macrandra
Rotala Indica_

Mid-to-front.
_Echinodorus rubra
Anubias barteri Nana
Anubias heterophylla
Bacopa Monnerii
Ludwigia Natans
Echinodorus Latifolius_

Foreground:
_Lilaeopsis novae - zelandiae
Ludwigia arcuata Requires pruning to create carpet effect.
Eleocharis Parvulus (Dwarf Hairgrass)
Sagittaria Natans _

This thread is of another 55 aquascape of mine, in it ferts, lighting, water change regime etc are
discussed. Some really good info from other members. I recommend you read it:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... t+spectrum

Re light spectrum - JBL Solar and Natur are both fantastic bulbs and are the closest full 
spectrum bulbs around (for reasonable money) that I know of, if you can't get them then keep
reading:

Chlorophyll uses mostly blue and red light, sunlight peaks in the blue spectrum and blue light is
used by plants and algae. Aquatic plants are most sensitive to red light (not too far up or you
get infrared). So your best bet is a bulb that is predominantly orange/red with some blue 
spectrum in there, it definitely wants to peak in the red part of the spectrum but blue light is 
useful for vegetative growth.










Aquatic plants are most sensitive to the spectrum ranging between 650 and 680 nm - as you can
see from the spectrum above that is about perfect.

That shows you the spectrum I base my lights on. That's a Hagen Aquaglo bulb, I run that 
alongside a Floragro which has more blue light....

Assuming you do not have a nutrient rich substrate then I can recommend Red Sea's Substrate
Enricher. You are supposed to put it in before water but it does not matter. What I would do is 
put a small amount of this around the base of each plant and mix it well into the sand. It made 
the world of difference in my tanks and is so easy to do. I've added it pre and post filling and 
never had an issue, it's basically just flourite/laterite sort of stuff loaded with iron and nutrients

Flourish is good stuff and it used to be my choice before I started using Red Sea products. I 
generally find more algae occurrence with Flourish, whereas with Red Sea's Flora24 (daily dose 
for trace minerals etc) and Red Sea's Flora Gro (used each WC) I get awesome growth, healthy
plants and no real algae build up.

Flora24 and Flora Gro

I've been really impressed with their products, all around, I'm sure dry ferts would give even 
better results, but for ease of use and results I can't fault the Red Sea stuff.....


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## NYjets51

thanks a lot


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## blairo1

I'm putting this here because the SA forum is full of really helpful people and I'm really busy, so if I can't answer your questions, then at least someone can. Post here bud, rather than continue in PM's - I'm happy to help it's just I know that I won't always be around for a couple of days and the general discussion here is really useful :thumb:.



> Hi, do you think its allright to use a floraglo light and a powerglo or aquaglo light on a 55 galon tank?


Yup, absolutely fine - as I mentioned above I run the Aquaglo with the Floraglo on my 55 (both 30w T8's = 1WPG. They're 34-36" bulbs to answer your last question via PM) you can see how the plants have done in both threads I linked to.



> When I add plants, do I have to wait until the tank is cycled?


No, you can go ahead and plant it up right away - if anything it allows your plants to properly establish themselves before the introduction of your fish, which may like to nip at them/uproot them etc.



> I saw some thing that said the first plants you add wont live, do you know why?


I never head of that, it sounds like nonsense to me. The only plants I've ever added that haven't "lived" at first were cryptocoryne but that is a fairly common occurrence known as cyrpt melt - it occurs because these particular plants do not adjust well to new and usually different parameters to the ones they were previously acclimated to and they die back. But given decent nutrition and reasonable water parameters (ie not rock hard) they will usually bounce back and become thick and vibrant IME.

You can plant a tank on the day you fill it up, I've done it several times, usually planting it before you even start fill it up. As long as you keep plants that are tolerant of your water conditions - ie KH GH and you treat the water appropriately (dechlor, nutrients, frequent water changes etc) there is no reason why your plants should not thrive.



> And im thinking of using Seachem Flourite as a substrate, how deep should it be? Sorry about all these questions, but i am so lost


I dislike Flourite as a substrate, it's sharp, it's messy, fish can't really route through it and as I mentioned earlier, the amount of growth I've seen in sand treated with some form of substrate enrichment is equal to that of any tank I've done with flourite. Expensive too. But it's your choice and if that's the route you want to take then go for it, I recommend a good 2.5"-3" deep as this allows easy planting of just about everything and allows for huge root masses to form.

:thumb:


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## NYjets51

I also saw something that says you should have double the amount of watts as gallons, meaning if you have a 55 gallon tank you should have 110 watts... Does anyone know if this is nescesary? I don't even know if its possible for me to get 110 watts, I only have room for 60


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## hollyfish2000

I'll chime in:

I prefer Eco-Complete as a substrate, mixed with some small black gravel. It is attractive, looks "sand like" but is amazing for plants. I have two planted tanks, one with this substrate and one without, and the one with the Eco Complete is definitely more lush with considerably less of an algae issue.

Two WPG (watts per gallon) would give you a nice medium-light set-up, which I would recommend. Some plants that would do well inlcude:

Java fern
Java moss
Crypts
Vals
Swords
Anubias (you can never have enough of these!)
Onion plants (crinium)
Wisteria

I would recommend that you plant very heavily right from the start and use injected C02, also right from the start. This will discourage algae growth from the onset as your plants will outcome the algae for nutrients. I also personally like doing the majority of the planting before the fish get introduced.

I use the Coralife lighting, which comes in a variety of lengths and wattage.

I also use the Seachem liquid fertlizers, although if you use Eco Complete you can go light on those. I personally only add Excel and potassium on a regular basis, but add Flourish and Iron to the tank without the Eco Complete.

Be sure to get an alage eater. A bristlenose pleco is the best best. Otos will work, but they needa more established tank to thrive.


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## hollyfish2000

By the way, if you only have "room" for a 60 watt (not sure why this would be the case) you probably should not go the planted tank route. You really need a minimum of 1.5 WPG to grow anything more than algae . . .


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## blairo1

I have to respectfully disagree, I think some of the easiest planted tanks are <1wpg as long as you keep on top of phosphates, ie frequent water changes, assuming the source water is in check, otherwise you can easily use phosphate reducing media in filters. I've never found it necessary though.

I'll bring my introductory post in here from my current set-up (see this link http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... anted+tank) :


blairo1 said:


> ..........
> Most plants mentioned are in this tank, the rest are in a 40 gallon that isn't ready for showing yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lighting is <1WPG on a cycle as follows:
> 
> 7am - 12noon ON
> 12-1pm OFF
> 1pm-6pm ON
> 6pm-6.30 OFF
> 6.30-10.30 ON
> 
> This keeps algae at bay pretty efficiently whilst allowing the plants plenty of light.


That's quite an old shot now I need to update it

Also I know Ruurd is running a tank with .6wpg and CO2 and follows a similar light regime:


Dutch Dude said:


> Heee bud! Really a wonderful tank and fish Blair :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: I don't expect something diferent of you. :wink: I was so convinced I already responded to this treat but today I discovered it was in an other treat where you posted the pics.
> 
> I absolutely agrea on the low light levels! Just like most of the planted tank owners I read quit a lot abouth conventional plant growth and a lot abouth the aquascaping stuff. Some basics I agrea on but huge light quantities ask for huge amounts of nutrition's. Only a little bit slowing down in the plant growth can couse huge problems like an algea explosion. Besides that you need to spend a lot on CO2, nutrition's and fertilizers as well as tube lights of HQL or what ever. Your electric bill will definitely increase (even more). So,....I see some advantages in the use of CO2. It does help you to grow even the more demanding plants. I do suggest to keep the levels of CO2 on the low side. The natural CO2 level will be around 7 (depends on temperature and water chemistry and movement. If you keep around 10 to 12 your plants still grow like mads. More important is the type of plants and their needs for nutrition. Most plants will take their nutrition from the water but some species takes them from the substrate. If you fertilize (every once in a while when plant growth slows down) you need to put in the fertilizer that works for the species you grow. Light levels can be low and I have a very densely planted 50 gallon with amazon swords and only 0.6 Watt/gallon. The tank looks a bit messy right now becouse I removed 5 flower stems (from 3 large echinodorus) with approximately 35 new plants. I also use a light schedule that does have something in common with Blair his schedule,......a dark period in between two lighting periods. To the fish this is no problem at all. During a thunderstorm in the tropics it also becomes night during the day. Keep in mind that a light period need to be at least 4 hours. If the period is shorter the plants won't grow becouse the process for growth was to short. This can couse problems for the plants! So always use light periods of 4 hours or more.
> 
> Here the schedule I use.
> 9:00 - 14:00 on
> 14:00 - 17:00 off
> 17:00 - 23:00 on
> 23:00 - 9:00 off
> 
> Kim, Cuddlefish and others,....I'm also convinced everyone can succeed in growing plants. You do need to take the effort and the patience to find the best lighting/ferts/schedule for your particular tank. What works for me doesn't have to work for someone else. Mostly slight modifications will result in the best plant growth. A planted tank is a complex ecosystem and it will need time to establish it selves. You are one of the parts in that establishment. Regular water changes, ferts, feeding, cleaning of filter and so on contribute to this ecosystem.
> 
> ................
> 
> Right now it isn't at it's best becouse of the large size of the Echinodorus and the new plants I removed. Besides that I was very short on time for the last couple of months. It's not a masterpiece like your tank but the real opinions I leave up to the visitors over here. The camera let the tank look brighter especially in the top layer were light get reflected but it gives an idea. The tank is a 50 gallon 40 long and 20 high. The echinodorus leaves stretch abouth 4 inch and even more over the water surface.


Regarding setting up a low light tank, I really can only refer to my link again because we discuss it there:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=136068

There are no set guidelines for how much light you "need" to have to grow plants, there are only really general recommendations. Within reason it is possible to grow many different plants in the aquarium under as little as .5wpg (possibly less but I have not yet experimented with this), the key is in finding the balance in stocking levels, water changes and nutrient regime. If I am able to flower plants under my 1wpg, then anything is possible.

Here is the most recent shot of my 55 gallon with 1WPG in the form of 2 30w T8's - 1 Aquaglo and 1 Floraglo. I've only just added some root ferts to the substrate and you can see that the foreground plants have started their spread. I don't run CO2, I rarely use water column ferts (actually I haven't used any for the past month or so), I do a 50% WC each week, sometimes twice a week if I'm doing it on other tanks as well. I have a new lily pad hitting the surface every 3 days and my aponogeton has just finished flowering. Basically I just change water and prune every few days, that's it. Not too much to handle!









You can do it, it just takes some tweaking, like any new set-up .

If you can afford the initial set-up cost then going the hi-tech route certainly opens the door to the classic, densely planted dutch style aquarium, but if low tech is your budget, or maybe that's just as far as you want to go with it, then there's nothing stopping you.

:thumb:

*hollyfish *brings up good points in regards to the eco-complete substrate as this is something I would choose over flourite, but also in the lighting - maybe you are not aware of T5 lighting - I run T8s because the ballasts that came with my tanks hood are T8 starter ballasts. If you have the option then look into hoods with T5 lighting. With T5 the same 34" bulb will be 40w instead of 30w (as an example). I'd really say for someone starting out 1wpg is a minimum, with more experience you can go with less, but if you hit around 1.5wpg as you can with T5s in the same space, then plant growth is that little bit quicker and means that if you have a little difficulty they are more likely to regenerate quickly. The flip side is that with higher light, if you lose the balance then algae goes nuts.


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## NYjets51

The reason I would not have room(unless i'm missing something) is because there is room for 2 hoods on my 55 gallon tank. The hoods are 24" each and hold 18" bulbs. The 18" bulbs are 15w. If I bought 2 DOUBLE strip lights, I would have to replace those lights with different lights that encourage plant growth, I think im gonna go with Floraglo and Aquaglo. thats 30w in each hood, leaving me with 60w. How else can I get the wattage up without costing me hundreds of dollars more?


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## blairo1

Well that's the ticket - you intend on using the existing ballasts in your hood which presumably are T8 starters, so to increase the output you'd need to switch to T5 starters. There are ways of getting more light out of the T8s but it involves running a single bulb in the double circuit and fiddling with wiring, so I've not done that. Basically the only way to get more light in the exact same space is to use T5s in place of T8s, due to their higher output.

Something like this:
http://www.aquarium-supply.biz/Current_ ... u01136.htm

Obviously you'd want to switch the bulbs as well or find one that comes with the right bulbs for your set-up (based on the light chart and info I gave above).

So it's not hugely expensive, just more expense than getting the right bulbs for your current hood, obviously. All depends on how much you can put in....


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## NYjets51

EDIT: Blairo how many watts do you have on your 55 gallon tank? And If I went with the 48" one then thats 108 watts, and actually cheaper then what I was going to do. But then this would mean that I wouldnt be able to use a hood, right? Or could I use one of those glass versa hoods still


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## NYjets51

Oh yea, I know this is frustrating with me not understanding anything, but I have a question about this light: http://www.aquarium-supply.biz/Current_ ... u01129.htm

The watts in there are 108 watts, are they sufficient for plants? Or do I need to replace them with something?


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## NYjets51

Okay, I am going to buy the fixture above and replace the bulbs with these: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=13823

The fixture is 48" long, but does that mean the bulb is 48" long?


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## blairo1

NYjets51 said:


> EDIT: Blairo how many watts do you have on your 55 gallon tank? And If I went with the 48" one then thats 108 watts, and actually cheaper then what I was going to do. But then this would mean that I wouldnt be able to use a hood, right? Or could I use one of those glass versa hoods still


I have 1.05 WPG on my 55. I'm not sure about the hood, I assume, yes, you'd need to use some sort of sliding/two-part glass hood.



> The watts in there are 108 watts, are they sufficient for plants? Or do I need to replace them with something?


Those bulbs should be fine! :thumb:



> The fixture is 48" long, but does that mean the bulb is 48" long?


I'm not too sure, but it should say the bulb length somewhere, if not, Google the product and look for the exact specifications.

:thumb:


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## mathas

NYjets51 said:


> The fixture is 48" long, but does that mean the bulb is 48" long?


My guess is that it does, based on this page.


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## NYjets51

Do you guys think a hood is nescesary? Wouldn't it interfere with the lights and vice versa?


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## mathas

NYjets51 said:


> Do you guys think a hood is nescesary? Wouldn't it interfere with the lights and vice versa?


To be honest, I'm not sure what you mean when you say "hood". In one post earlier in the thread, you said "_the hoods are 24" each and hold 18" bulbs_", which makes it sound like you're talking about a lighting fixture since you're talking about the bulbs they can hold. In this post, you're asking if a "hood" would interfere with lights.

I have a 90 gallon tank that is the same length as your 55, with two glass canopies and one 48" lighting fixture that sits on top. Here's a quick picture:


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## NYjets51

Im sorry, when I was talking about the hood with he lights, I was talking about this: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=13447
Its really just a strip light sitting on a glass canopy. When I asked if the hood would interfere with the T5, I was talking about the versa top.


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## blairo1

*mathas* is running the set-up exactly as I'd described, seems like the best way about it.


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## NYjets51

blairo1 said:


> *mathas* is running the set-up exactly as I'd described, seems like the best way about it.


so are you saying I shouldnt get the T5?


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## blairo1

No, I'm saying you could get the T5's, but in regards to the glass hood I think *mathas* has the right idea. That strip light you linked to sounds like it sits on the inside lip of your tank and therefore acts as the hood in itself. If it doesn't act as the hood, then I'm just saying I'd do it as *mathas* has done.


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## NYjets51

yes thats what im going to do now, thank you both


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