# My 20g long Setup



## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

I recently picked up a decent 20g Long to use for multis. It has really been a very rewarding and fun project so far, with all the planning, purchasing, and setting up of a brand new tank! Oh, and apologies for the length of my post - I just don't seem to be able to write briefly.  Here is my progress so far ... and of course questions. (No matter how many articles I read, I find I still have endless questions! :-? )

I decided to put this latest tank in my office - the other two are in the living room - so I could enjoy the little shellies while I work. Fortunately, I had a small HOB filter (Penguin 170), as well as the Emperor 400, on my current 55g. So I moved the Penguin to the new 20L. This filter has been on the 55g forever, so I figured it would really cut down on the cycling time (hurray!) I added a bunch of small rocks from my bigger tank, as well as the bag o' gravel that I've kept (also from the 55g) for seeding purposes. Probably overkill, but wanted to be sure. Washed and added the sand (about 25 lbs PFS). So far so good. After a day or so of looking at all this, though, I decided the rocks were too much and removed most them, but only after I was convinced the tank was cycled.

I also added a sponge filter, Hydro-Sponge Pro III (rated up to 40G), with an airstone and air pump. I'm hoping that I can remove the HOB at some point (the 170 is just so loud, even after repeated cleanings!) and just let the sponge filter perform the bio/mechanical filtering. Any comments on that idea? I've thought about using a power head rather than the air pump, but I'm not sure what amount of flow I would need with a sponge filter/20L setup?

Then I purchased a new heater (Fluval 100W). I was worried at first - it claimed to be submersible, but then it said on the box not to submerse it beyond the "Max Water Line"! That had me ready to pack it up for a quick return! But after lots of research, I learned that it was in fact completely submersible, so I've kept it. Why would they say otherwise? It had something to do with Canada, I learned. Very odd! Next, I found a very cheap glass lid - not too happy with it, it seems a bit flimsy and thin. I haven't cut the back plastic piece yet, since I want to get rid of the HOB filter at some point. I guess I can always buy another piece of plastic when that day comes though, eh? No lights yet; the tank sits near a skylight, which gives the tank a lovely rippling effect throughout the day, without any direct sunlight. Very lovely! But probably not enough light for plants and fish to thrive.

And finally - the shells arrived. Wow, they are so pretty! I bought a box of 36 chantifrais escargot shells, which seem to look a bit like whale eye shells. They were all in great condition. I'm wondering though, should I add more than 36 for the (soon-to-be) 6 multis?

So I let this all stew for a day or two, then checked water parameters and performed an ammonia test. Water looked great (0 ammonia, 0 Nitrites, 5 Nitrates). Then added 100 drops of ammonia (to bring it to about 3 ppm) which was converted within 24 hours. Having the old filter to get things rolling was great; I was good to go!

I decided to start with the dither fish, and purchased 3 Melanotaenia praecox (Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish), 1 male: 2 females. I'm wondering if I could add 3 more? If so, same ratio? They are very pretty, with shimmery bodies, and red or yellow tipped fins (red on the male, yellow on the females). I'm really pleased with them! :fish:

Yesterday I decided to venture into the wonderful world of aquatic plants, after seeing so many amazing pictures of the tanks here. Picked up a couple Anubias and Java fern. I really love how the tank looks now! Live plants really do make such a difference. One simple question, do I need more? I've done lots of reading, but know there is still so much to learn about them. I will have to organize all my other questions for another post though.

Still something missing, though. Oh right, I still need to add the multis! I have to call the breeder in San Antonio so I can arrange to pick them up, but I've been putting it off. Why? I'm terrible about picking up a phone and talking in person, don't really know why. *sigh* Working on that little character flaw... 

So that's where I'm at now, more updates once I can get past that picking up the telephone thing. Look forward to comments and suggestions and hopefully some help on those questions! 

Cycling the tank, with my bunch of rocks and oh-so-lovely bag o' gravel:









Pretty Shells!









Completed setup, with dither fish in the foreground (they blend in with those shells) and new live plants! Removed the rock pile and added two medium rocks (mostly just to hide that sponge filter!)









Female Rainbowfish, hiding out from that pestering boy!









Male Rainbowfish with his females close behind (and Java fern!)









Anubias tucked into a hole in a rock. Holey rock - great for so many things!









Thanks for reading! Hope you enjoyed the story and the pictures


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## fusion (Jun 21, 2012)

Looks great :thumb:

Big difference with the plants in there


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm phone phobic too, Ladyfish, so I totally understand. I HATE talking on the phone and will do just about anything to avoid it. I married me an extrovert, and now I make him do ALL the phone calls, poor man. 

I'm so excited for you! Multies are super cool fish, so entertaining to watch.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

My responses in red font.



Ladyfish said:


> I recently picked up a decent 20g Long to use for multis. It has really been a very rewarding and fun project so far, with all the planning, purchasing, and setting up of a brand new tank! This is 1/2 the fun in setting up a new tank, IMO.
> 
> Washed and added the sand (about 25 lbs PFS). You may find that will be too much sand for them. They will constantly be moving it out of their way. I find that about 1/2" will suffice.
> 
> ...


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Dee, thanks so much for all your wonderful suggestions and advice!! 

I will remove half the sand - right now it is about an 1" deep. Interesting about the multis liking a shallower base. I'll probably add a few more shells, just for fun.

About the filter - I'll keep the sponge as with the air pump - I know what you mean about a power head in the tank, very ugly. It's all I can do to hide the sponge! I'll leave Penguin 170 on there for a while and look for a better HOB. I can't do a canister on this tank, unfortunately, due to where it is sitting - there's just no room for it. But a quieter HOB would be nice.

I was worried about the heater, but that was the lowest Fluval I could find at the time, so appreciate the warning. I'll move it to my 55g to act as a backup and get a smaller one for this tank!

As for the lights - I really like the looks of the LEDs on my 10g, so I may go with those. Hopefully these particular plants can thrive with the indirect sunlight and LED lights.

Thanks for the Rainbowfish link - I'll spend time over there and learn all I can! One thing I was dismayed to find is that these Rainbowfish like more acidic water. But I also saw lots of reassurances that what they really need (much like cichlids) is steady water parameters, rather than any particular pH. So I'll not fret. I love the idea of a dozen. I'll probably pick up more plants too. Oh boy another trip to the LFS! 

Oh and btw, I loved those Rainbowfish in my 20L so much, I bought a pair of Threadfin Rainbowfish for my 10g to keep it cycled. I also bought a bristlenose pleco - it was so small I put it in the 10g as well, to let it grow a bit.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

I've heard that Aquaclears are very nice, very quiet filters. I know what you mean about the Penguins. My 350 was quite noisy, so much so that it is now gone. 

I have a Hagen Elite 50W heater on my nephew's 20L and it seems to work great. It was fairly inexpensive too!


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> I've heard that Aquaclears are very nice, very quiet filters. I know what you mean about the Penguins. My 350 was quite noisy, so much so that it is now gone.
> 
> I have a Hagen Elite 50W heater on my nephew's 20L and it seems to work great. It was fairly inexpensive too!


Thanks appreciate the feedback  I've been looking at the Aquaclears and wondered if they were quiet as well as efficient. I'll pick up that heater too - that should be just right for mine as well!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> clhinds78 said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard that Aquaclears are very nice, very quiet filters. I know what you mean about the Penguins. My 350 was quite noisy, so much so that it is now gone.
> ...


I'm contemplating getting an AC50 for my nephew's tank. It has an old whisper HOB right now that is ok, but doesn't have a lot of flow. I guess we will see how quickly the tank gets dirty once we get the fish in there. I was considering an AC30, but some one on here told that they are underpowered and the the 50 is a much better filter. For $5 more i figured, what the heck, might as well get the 50! A little over-flitration never hurt anyone.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I actually do like the Aquaclear filters but do find the recommended tank sizes for the models a bit undersized for my tastes. I picked up an AC20 & AC30 at club auctions and find they work well on 10 gallon tanks. I also got two AC50's new, on sale, and am using them as temporary detritus catchers on my sponge filtered Shellie tanks (24"L x 18"W x 15"H). They do pick up a lot of debris in the tank and eliminate more frequent sand substrate vacuuming but I wish I had gotten the AC70's instead.

I think the ideal model for a 20 long would be the AC70 and mounting it on the short end of the tank would be perfect for dispersing the flow down the long length of the tank. You would have to tweak the glass lids though to accomplish that.

Ladyfish, do you have a check valve on your air pump or is it mounted higher than the tank's water level?


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

I have two AC110s on my 75g. They're not silent, but the only noise they make is a faint water trickling sound, which I actually quite like. It's relaxing and peaceful.  With both of them on there, it also gives some pretty good surface movement.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> I'm contemplating getting an AC50 for my nephew's tank. It has an old whisper HOB right now that is ok, but doesn't have a lot of flow. I guess we will see how quickly the tank gets dirty once we get the fish in there. I was considering an AC30, but some one on here told that they are underpowered and the the 50 is a much better filter. For $5 more i figured, what the heck, might as well get the 50! A little over-flitration never hurt anyone.


Very true! And you must be one awesome uncle! 

Yeah I haven't been very impressed with the Whisper that came with my 10G. I hadn't heard that about the issues with the 30, so I'll be checking out the 50 for my 20L. I had been leaning towards the Aquaclears already for this tank; I like the fact that you can put loads more media in it than a normal HOB, almost like a mini canister. This has pretty much helped me make up my mind. My only concern was that it would too much flow for a 20L. But from my research, the 50 is a bit more than the 170, so it should be fine in that regard.


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## Jmanolinsky (Jun 4, 2010)

I'm going to speak up and agree with Deeda. I think you should get the AC70 for your 20L. I'm not sure I would bother hanging it on the side just due to the hassel of figuring out how to configure the top. The smallest Aqua Clear filter I would buy for any tank is an AC70. I have a 40 breeder tank that I haven't setup yet, but I bought an AC110 for it. I have a 110 and 70 on tanks right now and am very happy with them. These filters are not going to cause unwanted currents in your tank. And I have found that simply using the spnge and ceramic rings is usually more than enough filtration. If water clarity should become a concern, I simply put in a piece of blue/white filter material between the sponge and rings.

Jman


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Jmanolinsky said:


> I'm going to speak up and agree with Deeda. I think you should get the AC70 for your 20L. I'm not sure I would bother hanging it on the side just due to the hassel of figuring out how to configure the top. The smallest Aqua Clear filter I would buy for any tank is an AC70. I have a 40 breeder tank that I haven't setup yet, but I bought an AC110 for it. I have a 110 and 70 on tanks right now and am very happy with them. These filters are not going to cause unwanted currents in your tank. And I have found that simply using the spnge and ceramic rings is usually more than enough filtration. If water clarity should become a concern, I simply put in a piece of blue/white filter material between the sponge and rings.
> 
> Jman


Ya, a 70 might not be a bad idea if its your only filter. I will be using the 50 in conjunction with a UGF. The 20L will probably house a few tetras or live-bearers, nothing too large or expensive. We may put shellies in it some day, but for now we'll go with the cheaper fish. It is his first tank after all.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Storiwyr said:


> I have two AC110s on my 75g. They're not silent, but the only noise they make is a faint water trickling sound, which I actually quite like. It's relaxing and peaceful.  With both of them on there, it also gives some pretty good surface movement.


I don't mind the trickling noise, depends on how loud it is. What I do mind is the noisy impeller on my old BW 350. I do love my silent canister filter tho!


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> Storiwyr said:
> 
> 
> > I have two AC110s on my 75g. They're not silent, but the only noise they make is a faint water trickling sound, which I actually quite like. It's relaxing and peaceful.  With both of them on there, it also gives some pretty good surface movement.
> ...


Oh yes, I love the gently running water noise. But the grinding in the impeller is driving me a bit nuts. I just can't seem to get it clean! Wish I could do a small canister in here, but no place to put it. The Emperor 400 on my 55g in the living room is very quiet. I'm buying the AC50 today or tomorrow.

Still need to call about the Multis. Stori, funny that we both have the same issue and found a similar solution - extrovert hubbies! Maybe I'll ask him to call, but he will give me that funny look again


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Running an AC 50 on a 20 long. Had to reduce the flow to its minimum setting to avoid blowing sand around. Sand was filled up to the trim off the tank, so less than 1/2".


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Running an AC 50 on a 20 long. Had to reduce the flow to its minimum setting to avoid blowing sand around. Sand was filled up to the trim off the tank, so less than 1/2".


The 20L I'm putting it in doesn't have sand.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> Oh yes, I love the gently running water noise. But the grinding in the impeller is driving me a bit nuts. I just can't seem to get it clean! Wish I could do a small canister in here, but no place to put it. The Emperor 400 on my 55g in the living room is very quiet. I'm buying the AC50 today or tomorrow.


I think that sand is hard on the BW impeller. Replacing it would probably help, but you will most likely run into the same issue again down the road. I've heard that if you call Marineland and tell them you have a noisy impeller they will send you another one for free. Otherwise you can buy them for like $15.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> I think that sand is hard on the BW impeller. Replacing it would probably help, but you will most likely run into the same issue again down the road. I've heard that if you call Marineland and tell them you have a noisy impeller they will send you another one for free. Otherwise you can buy them for like $15.


I've heard the same about sand and impellers. However, this Penguin has been noisy long before I switched from gravel to sand. I didn't really mind cuz it was in the other room. Now that it is in my office, I can hear it all day long! I've been really careful since I put sand in all my tanks. When I have to disturb the sand, I cover in the filter intakes with an piece of nylon stocking. So far, so good. But great to know about Marineland - I'll give that try, perhaps we can save this Penguin yet!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> clhinds78 said:
> 
> 
> > I think that sand is hard on the BW impeller. Replacing it would probably help, but you will most likely run into the same issue again down the road. I've heard that if you call Marineland and tell them you have a noisy impeller they will send you another one for free. Otherwise you can buy them for like $15.
> ...


Using nylons is a great idea! Thanks for the tip! Did you order the AC50?


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## Jmanolinsky (Jun 4, 2010)

What I meant was that I wouldn't buy anything smaller than the AC70. That way it could be used for other tanks in the future. I mean there will be other tanks in the future, rtight?


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Jmanolinsky said:


> What I meant was that I wouldn't buy anything smaller than the AC70. That way it could be used for other tanks in the future. I mean there will be other tanks in the future, rtight?


I suspect so - can't have enough.  I already ordered the AC50 last night, so I'll see how that works. Meanwhile, I can spend some time working on the 170, see if I can r&r that noisy impeller.

So if I'm going to replace the filter, do I need to worry about cycling again? I purchased another 3 Rainbowfish last night, so there are a total of 6 (1.25") fish in this tank now. I do have a sponge filter in there as well, but it is only about 2 weeks old.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Deeda said:


> I actually do like the Aquaclear filters but do find the recommended tank sizes for the models a bit undersized for my tastes. I picked up an AC20 & AC30 at club auctions and find they work well on 10 gallon tanks. I also got two AC50's new, on sale, and am using them as temporary detritus catchers on my sponge filtered Shellie tanks (24"L x 18"W x 15"H). They do pick up a lot of debris in the tank and eliminate more frequent sand substrate vacuuming but I wish I had gotten the AC70's instead.
> 
> I think the ideal model for a 20 long would be the AC70 and mounting it on the short end of the tank would be perfect for dispersing the flow down the long length of the tank. You would have to tweak the glass lids though to accomplish that.
> 
> Ladyfish, do you have a check valve on your air pump or is it mounted higher than the tank's water level?


Hi Dee, yes I do indeed have check valves on my air pumps (I've got sponge filters in all three tanks now). I like your suggestion of the A70 mounted on the short side, that would provide very nice flow the length of the tank. Although, as you mentioned, I would need to alter the glass lid. I'll have to think on that one...

I've already ordered the AC50, but I may use it on my 10g (I've not been happy the tiny filter that came with it, either) or save it for the next project, once I figure out how to get the glass altered properly. Meanwhile, I'll get the 50 up and running on the 20L. It couldn't be worse than this Penguin! :?


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> Using nylons is a great idea! Thanks for the tip! Did you order the AC50?


You are very welcome! I got that tip from someone on this forum, too 

Yep, ordered the AC50... should be here tomorrow.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> clhinds78 said:
> 
> 
> > Using nylons is a great idea! Thanks for the tip! Did you order the AC50?
> ...


Awesome! You will have to let us know how it works. I'm thinking of setting up a 20L for shellies.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> Ladyfish said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, ordered the AC50... should be here tomorrow.
> ...


Will do! I think I'm going to love the Multis... once I get them!

Progress thus far: I've removed quite a bit of sand, as per Dee's suggestion. Now there is only about 1/2" in there. I'll be adding more shells, just because they are pretty. I've added 3 more Rainbowfish, bringing the total up to 6 (2:4) and will be adding at least 3 more next week. I've added another Java fern, as well. Need more pictures, but that will have to wait for the sun.

Now my only question about removing the 170 and adding the AC50... do I need to be worried about an Ammonia/Nitrite spike because of removing the old filter? I do have a sponge filter in there, but it has only been running for about 2 weeks. I could always run the AC50 along with the Penguin, but I sure would rather get that thing outta here ;-)


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> my only question about removing the 170 and adding the AC50... do I need to be worried about an Ammonia/Nitrite spike because of removing the old filter? I do have a sponge filter in there, but it has only been running for about 2 weeks. I could always run the AC50 along with the Penguin, but I sure would rather get that thing outta here ;-)


Yes, I would run the two filters together for at least a month to help seed the new one. Most of your beneficial bacteria is the filter. I know it will be annoying, but it will be worth it. I understand the desire to get rid of the BW, but when you're done you will be rid of it FOREVER!


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> Yes, I would run the two filters together for at least a month to help seed the new one. Most of your beneficial bacteria is the filter. I know it will be annoying, but it will be worth it. I understand the desire to get rid of the BW, but when you're done you will be rid of it FOREVER!


Oh, I was afraid of that, but yeah it makes sense. Okay, I'll just line up some soothing music to play for the next month to drown out the grinding. Oh, and I'll give Marineland a call and see if they can help me out as well!

I just thought of this... what if I took the bio-wheel out of the Penguin and put it in the tank or in the AC (if there's room)? Would that do the seeding trick?


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## craig7 (Aug 6, 2012)

Ladyfish, your best bet with filtration here is to add a powerhead with a filter block. Very low noise, great aeration, good solids removal and good biologically. Once given a dim view with the initial advent of external power filters but which often overlooked the comparsion with other systems like internal power filters and air box filters... now viewed by most experts as being much better than the rest unlike first thought.
Go for something like the AquaClear 800l/hr version whish is greater than internal filters but less than the 1000 plus L/H powerheads. There are a raft of ways of attaching filter blocks and i can help here.
Im an expert with smaller tanks if not 50 Gallon plus tanks and never had any problems with these.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

craig7 said:


> Ladyfish, your best bet with filtration here is to add a powerhead with a filter block. Very low noise, great aeration, good solids removal and good biologically. Once given a dim view with the initial advent of external power filters but which often overlooked the comparsion with other systems like internal power filters and air box filters... now viewed by most experts as being much better than the rest unlike first thought.
> Go for something like the AquaClear 800l/hr version whish is greater than internal filters but less than the 1000 plus L/H powerheads. There are a raft of ways of attaching filter blocks and i can help here.
> Im an expert with smaller tanks if not 50 Gallon plus tanks and never had any problems with these.


Hi Craig, this sounds very intriguing. I've found the AquaClear 30 Powerhead (175 GPH = 662 LPH) which is the closest thing to 800LPH without going over 1000LPH. I do have a sponge filter (Hydro-Sponge Pro III) in the tank now, which I've read I can connect to a powerhead. Is this what you were suggesting, or did you have something even more clever in mind? I would love to hear about it.


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## halffrozen (Sep 24, 2011)

Get a fluval HOB either the C2 or C3 for your tank. Mine are SILENT. I have had the C3 and now have a C4.

Love them!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

craig7 said:


> Ladyfish, your best bet with filtration here is to add a powerhead with a filter block. Very low noise, great aeration, good solids removal and good biologically. Once given a dim view with the initial advent of external power filters but which often overlooked the comparsion with other systems like internal power filters and air box filters... now viewed by most experts as being much better than the rest unlike first thought.
> Go for something like the AquaClear 800l/hr version whish is greater than internal filters but less than the 1000 plus L/H powerheads. There are a raft of ways of attaching filter blocks and i can help here.
> Im an expert with smaller tanks if not 50 Gallon plus tanks and never had any problems with these.


Internal filters do work well, but I find them to be an eyesore especially in a small tank. I don't like much if any equipment in my tank.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> Internal filters do work well, but I find them to be an eyesore especially in a small tank. I don't like much if any equipment in my tank.


That IS a challenge. One of the reasons I'm starting to cultivate aquatic plants now. Need way to hide that big ol' thing!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> clhinds78 said:
> 
> 
> > Internal filters do work well, but I find them to be an eyesore especially in a small tank. I don't like much if any equipment in my tank.
> ...


Yes, I use plants for that too!


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

halffrozen said:


> Get a fluval HOB either the C2 or C3 for your tank. Mine are SILENT. I have had the C3 and now have a C4.
> 
> Love them!


Thanks for the recommendation, I haven't looked into those but certainly will! Perhaps for the next project ...


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> Thanks for the recommendation, I haven't looked into those but certainly will! Perhaps for the next project ...


My next project is 'Invisible Tank' ... if the landlord can't see it, he can't get mad about it, right?!


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Storiwyr said:


> Ladyfish said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the recommendation, I haven't looked into those but certainly will! Perhaps for the next project ...
> ...


Don't you have one of those already? I thought I didn't see one the other day


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

Dawg2012 said:


> Storiwyr said:
> 
> 
> > Ladyfish said:
> ...


Shhh. You're on to me. I actually have like 30 of them. I bought some of razorfan's invisible fish for them.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Y'all are hilarious. Invisible tanks.... and of course, invisible fish to go in them! 

SO, I got the AC50 in today! Set it up with the included foam, charcoal, and biomax as instructed. And yeah, I actually read the instructions ;-)

I want to try the length-wise setup that Dee suggested, so I'll need to build a new lid for the 20L. I've got the hinge pieces, just need the glass cut. I don't like the lid that's on there now, so this gives me a chances to make it better 

Meanwhile, I've got the AC50 hooked up and running on my 55g to get it seeded, or at least until I can get that lid rebuilt. The AC50 is smooth and nearly silent. Only issue, it doesn't fit down over the lip of that old 55g frame so it is fairly high above the water. The splashy noise is not a big deal in that large room. Looks like it will be fine on the 20L, with its narrower trim.

Meanwhile, I'd like to add at least 3-6 more Rainbowfish, if my LFS still has any. I think I bought the last 2 males.

As for the multis... I'd like to finish mucking about with this tank before adding them, hopefully by end of the month. They will have enough stress to handle, without worrying about all my activities! :fish:


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm so excited for you to get multies, Lady. I think you will LOVE them.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Storiwyr said:


> I'm so excited for you to get multies, Lady. I think you will LOVE them.


ME TOO!!!! I showed our favorite documentary to my husband and said "That little one Pemba is like our new babies!" He was enchanted


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Well one of my Rainbowfish has disapeared - been 2 days since I've seen him. I've checked all the gaps in the lid, but they are all sealed up tight. Wondering what might have happened?


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## Michael_M (May 31, 2012)

If he died in the tank they will eat the body to hide the evidence.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Michael_M said:


> If he died in the tank they will eat the body to hide the evidence.


Shocking behavior! 

Too bad, too, it was a little male. Not another one in town that I can find.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Multis have been ordered! They should be here on Wednesday :dancing:


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> Multis have been ordered! They should be here on Wednesday :dancing:


 :thumb:


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## piper28 (Mar 11, 2011)

Hmm, I've got a dumb question. I was looking at the pictures in the original post, and I'm just kinda curious, is it normal for this type of tank to use that many shells? I always kinda figured when people said to use these escargot shells that you use a handful of them, not a large pile like that. I've got a 29G tank that I've been considering doing a very similar setup, and I might have to rearrange some rocks I have in there to be able to put that many shells in. (The tank has been running for the summer for my wife's African pond frogs, which now that the summer is over will go back to her classroom, and my plan was to try a small cichlid tank to see how it goes before moving to something bigger, and I've kinda like the ideas of multis myself).


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## beachtan (Sep 25, 2008)

Yup - you are definitely gonna want a LOT of shells!! They reproduce so quickly that you'll need them! : )


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

I have about 40 shells waiting for 6 multis! I like to give them choices


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

My 6 multies arrived today from San Antonio. They look quite lovely, very healthy and active. There is at least one that is quite a bit larger than the others, two are quite small. :fish:

I put a drip on the bag, to get the temps and water conditions similar (their water was much warmer than the tank's). Then I put a couple shells in the bag; all but two swam into them after about 30 minutes. Much easier way to transport them into the tank! The last 2 I had to net - they weren't happy about that, but soon made their way to the shell bed. Meanwhile, the big fellow was facing down the rainbows, letting them know that this is HIS shell bed now 

I have the tank covered just now. I'll take pics later...


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> My 6 multies arrived today from San Antonio. They look quite lovely, very healthy and active. There is at least one that is quite a bit larger than the others, two are quite small. :fish:
> 
> I put a drip on the bag, to get the temps and water conditions similar (their water was much warmer than the tank's). Then I put a couple shells in the bag; all but two swam into them after about 30 minutes. Much easier way to transport them into the tank! The last 2 I had to net - they weren't happy about that, but soon made their way to the shell bed. Meanwhile, the big fellow was facing down the rainbows, letting them know that this is HIS shell bed now
> 
> I have the tank covered just now. I'll take pics later...


Awesome! Can't wait to get my shellies!


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Spent quite a bit of time watching the multies today. They seem to have settled in very well. They don't mind the rainbowfish, in fact the multies seem rather calmed by their presence. There seem to be at least 2 multies which don't live in shells - they mostly circle over and within the shell bed. Assuming these are the males? They like the passages between the lower shells, to go from one end to the other. Quite entertaining! The other 4 have picked out shells - perhaps these are females? Two of those come out quite often, hovering just over their chosen homes. I've seen the 3rd small one at least once. The 4th I haven't seen at all.

Here is one of the larger females (?) hovering over her shell. I love the delicate yellow on her tip of her fins. Seen her dancing a bit for one of the males already, but he isn't responding yet. 










And a full tank picture after yet another rearrangment. You can see two of the new multies swimming above the shells  
I still don't have a light for this tank. I like the ambient light, but makes picture taking a bit challenging.


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## Dawg2012 (May 10, 2012)

Looks nice Lady .

I've always liked the blue eyes of the Multies myself. Mine are really doing well... though no shell claiming by anyone yet, that I've noticed... and no spawning. I need to spend more time watching them but... seems I'm always busy with another tank project LOL!


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Dawg2012 said:


> Looks nice Lady .
> 
> I've always liked the blue eyes of the Multies myself. Mine are really doing well... though no shell claiming by anyone yet, that I've noticed... and no spawning. I need to spend more time watching them but... seems I'm always busy with another tank project LOL!


Thanks! Yes, I love their blue eyes, too. Very striking. Interesting that yours have not claimed shells yet. Could you have lots of males?

At some point, Dawg, you gotta slow down and enjoy all your hard work!  
But yes I know what you mean... I just brought home a 75g a couple days ago and will be buying a 125g this weekend. More projects! ;-)


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> Thanks! Yes, I love their blue eyes, too. Very striking. Interesting that yours have not claimed shells yet. Could you have lots of males?
> 
> At some point, Dawg, you gotta slow down and enjoy all your hard work!
> But yes I know what you mean... I just brought home a 75g a couple days ago and will be buying a 125g this weekend. More projects! ;-)


What are your plans for two new tanks? I really like my 75G tank, makes a great mbuna tank!


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> What are your plans for two new tanks? I really like my 75G tank, makes a great mbuna tank!


The 75G will replace my current 55G - It is so hard to get the rocks just right, with such a narrow tank. I don't know if I'll add any other fish to it - things seem stable right now, I'll just see where things go from here. Mbunas are a real challenge, not sure I'm ready for them again!

The 125G - I'm leaning towards a tropheus species tank. I've thoroughly enjoyed the lone tropheus I have now, I'd love to see a bunch of them all together. This one will go in the spot where the 55G currently is sitting. I'll have to move a bookshelf to make room for the 75G (Easier said than done - books are another favorite hobby! They are everywhere in this house!!)


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> clhinds78 said:
> 
> 
> > What are your plans for two new tanks? I really like my 75G tank, makes a great mbuna tank!
> ...


What's in the 55G right now?

You will love having a 75G. The extra room makes a huge difference. I went from a 36"x12" tank to the 75G and it seemed like SO much more room. Makes arranging rocks so much easier. I had to move a bookshelf too, but it was worth it.

125G tropheus sounds awesome!


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## piper28 (Mar 11, 2011)

Ladyfish said:


> I'll have to move a bookshelf to make room for the 75G (Easier said than done - books are another favorite hobby! They are everywhere in this house!!)


Heh, my Kindle has really made me start thinking of getting rid of all the books. Quite frankly, I need the wall space for some artwork that I have sitting in boxes (oh, and possibly a tank or two underneath the art  ). The only thing that's annoying is getting rid of them at about 50 cents apiece really kinda hurts.

Looking forward to my wife's frogs going back to work maybe next week so I can start looking at putting some multis in the tank. Just need to decide what might go with them.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> What's in the 55G right now?
> 
> You will love having a 75G. The extra room makes a huge difference. I went from a 36"x12" tank to the 75G and it seemed like SO much more room. Makes arranging rocks so much easier. I had to move a bookshelf too, but it was worth it.
> 
> 125G tropheus sounds awesome!


In my 55G, I have 14 Cyps (Utinta), 1 Tropheus, 2 Leleupis, 1 BN pleco. Might have room for something else, especially if that Tropheus goes to the 125 (or rehomed - he might be too big to add into a bunch of juveniles?). But a big bunch of Tropheus does sound awesome 



piper28 said:


> Heh, my Kindle has really made me start thinking of getting rid of all the books. Quite frankly, I need the wall space for some artwork that I have sitting in boxes (oh, and possibly a tank or two underneath the art  ). The only thing that's annoying is getting rid of them at about 50 cents apiece really kinda hurts.
> 
> Looking forward to my wife's frogs going back to work maybe next week so I can start looking at putting some multis in the tank. Just need to decide what might go with them.


I love my books. I've already whittled them down to the ones I love the most, but that was several years ago, so I bet more whittling is in order. I know about the ridiculous price you get selling - a box full for a couple bucks at most. Usually I try to give them away to loving homes! My husband loves his kindle. I'll use it if he has something I want to read, but otherwise I love holding a real book 

How big is the frog tank? Since mine is just a 20L, I only have a dozen rainbowfish to use as dithers. I quite like them though, they are a really lovely schooling fish and very friendly - they like to nibble food out of my fingers, which is fun.

In fact, I'm a bit worried about the multies getting enough food - the rainbows are voracious and very fast eaters! The pellets don't sink quickly enough to make it into the shell bed before they've gobbled them up. Have to rethink the feeding routine, try to distract the rainbows on one side of the tank while getting some to the shellies on the other!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> [
> How big is the frog tank? Since mine is just a 20L, I only have a dozen rainbowfish to use as dithers. I quite like them though, they are a really lovely schooling fish and very friendly - they like to nibble food out of my fingers, which is fun.
> 
> In fact, I'm a bit worried about the multies getting enough food - the rainbows are voracious and very fast eaters! The pellets don't sink quickly enough to make it into the shell bed before they've gobbled them up. Have to rethink the feeding routine, try to distract the rainbows on one side of the tank while getting some to the shellies on the other!


I would toss in enough food so that the rainbow fish get some and some sinks. If you're pellets aren't sinking quickly you might want to get some that do. I bought some some sinking spirulina pellets made by kensfish that sink quite nicely.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> I would toss in enough food so that the rainbow fish get some and some sinks. If you're pellets aren't sinking quickly you might want to get some that do. I bought some some sinking spirulina pellets made by kensfish that sink quite nicely.


That's an idea, I'll check that out. Currently I'm using the NLS .5 pellets - the multies are so little, I would think this would be the right size for them, and the rainbows do well on this size also. I'll take a lok at those spirulina pellets though, thanks!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> clhinds78 said:
> 
> 
> > I would toss in enough food so that the rainbow fish get some and some sinks. If you're pellets aren't sinking quickly you might want to get some that do. I bought some some sinking spirulina pellets made by kensfish that sink quite nicely.
> ...


The ones from kens are pretty big-probably 1/8-1/4". You can break them up quite easily tho. Think I paid $4 for a half pound.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Nice looking fish but I don't see any vertical bars on the body. Are you sure they are Multies?



Ladyfish said:


> Here is one of the larger females (?) hovering over her shell. I love the delicate yellow on her tip of her fins. Seen her dancing a bit for one of the males already, but he isn't responding yet.


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## piper28 (Mar 11, 2011)

Ladyfish said:


> How big is the frog tank? Since mine is just a 20L, I only have a dozen rainbowfish to use as dithers. I quite like them though, they are a really lovely schooling fish and very friendly - they like to nibble food out of my fingers, which is fun.


The frog tank is a 29G, so similar in nature to your 20L (which is one reason I've been watching this). The library in the cookie-cutter setups suggests Paracyprichromis nigripinnis might be a possibility, and I kinda like what I see from them, but don't know if it would really be practical or not. (Plus, from what I read, they may like to snack on the eggs of the multis, and I have kinda mixed feelings on that - part of me isn't so sure I *really* need fish breeding like crazy, so that might be a check on that).


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

Deeda said:


> Nice looking fish but I don't see any vertical bars on the body. Are you sure they are Multies?


I see them, they're just very faint still. Mine are similar. I have four or five that have really clear stripes. With the other three you have to look a lot closer. I think it's just natural variation?


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Deeda said:


> Nice looking fish but I don't see any vertical bars on the body. Are you sure they are Multies?


According our forum sponsor in San Antonio that I ordered them from, they are Lamprologus multifasciatus. The largest fish (I am assuming is the male) has the bars, but he is the only one so far. I noticed in the picture of fry on the profile, they do not have bars yet, so perhaps the others are too young yet? Otherwise, I wonder what I might have? :-?

I'll try to get a closer look at the others as well. That female in the picture above was kind enough to choose a shell right at the front of the tank. She seems to enjoy having her picture taken; the others are not quite so cooperative!

Here is a picture of the big boss multie:


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

That's been my conclusion too, Ladyfish. When I first purchased my eight multies, only one had visible striping, and he was the biggest. Percy the Boss Multie. Now that they've all grown a bit, more and more of them are showing stripes. The smallest ones still do not. I think they are females, and just haven't gotten big enough to really show their bars yet. One is also particularly dark, and after watching Ardeus's lovely videos, you can see there is variation in the shade of the base color in the species.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

piper28 said:


> The frog tank is a 29G, so similar in nature to your 20L (which is one reason I've been watching this). The library in the cookie-cutter setups suggests Paracyprichromis nigripinnis might be a possibility, and I kinda like what I see from them, but don't know if it would really be practical or not. (Plus, from what I read, they may like to snack on the eggs of the multis, and I have kinda mixed feelings on that - part of me isn't so sure I *really* need fish breeding like crazy, so that might be a check on that).


Haha, I know what you mean. Keep fry in check the natural way? Or not? That's a dilemma. I do like the looks paracyps, but I thought the 30" length was not enough for them, and they would prefer larger, like a 55G? I read a thread on this forum where that was mentioned. I've been very surprised at how much I like the Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish I have in there now with the multies. Really lovely, and neat behavior.



Storiwyr said:


> That's been my conclusion too, Ladyfish. When I first purchased my eight multies, only one had visible striping, and he was the biggest. Percy the Boss Multie. Now that they've all grown a bit, more and more of them are showing stripes. The smallest ones still do not. I think they are females, and just haven't gotten big enough to really show their bars yet. One is also particularly dark, and after watching Ardeus's lovely videos, you can see there is variation in the shade of the base color in the species.


Cool good to know, Stori, thanks! Funny, I've named my big guy Jake. Yes, I have really learned quite a bit from watching those wonderful videos!

Oh here is a question ... I finally found The Sixth Multie (he disappeared since putting them all into the tank, 2 days ago). He is hidden behind the rocks in the far right corner. He is not quite as big as Jake, but larger than that female. Should I leave him be and let him find his way to the shell bed? Put a couple shells over there for him? I can't help think of Bulu and Kiku, and their battles with Moliro. I don't want to start a war by interferring! :-?


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

Moliro was kind of a jerk. Just saying. XD

I don't think it would hurt to throw some shells back there, or let him hang out in the rocks.  My two males (I think) are constantly cruising the tank, but one of them hangs out in the rockwork even though there's plenty of shell room. There's actually two piles of abandoned shells right now because the females moved to the middle to chill with Percy. And there's one I think is a female who lives in a big hunk of holey rock instead of a shell.


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Storiwyr said:


> Moliro was kind of a jerk. Just saying. XD
> 
> I don't think it would hurt to throw some shells back there, or let him hang out in the rocks.  My two males (I think) are constantly cruising the tank, but one of them hangs out in the rockwork even though there's plenty of shell room. There's actually two piles of abandoned shells right now because the females moved to the middle to chill with Percy. And there's one I think is a female who lives in a big hunk of holey rock instead of a shell.


Ha! He was a bit, wasn't he?!

Okay, I threw a couple shells back there - mostly to see his reaction. Sure enough, he has "claimed" them - hovers protectively around them, but just peeks inside from time to time. I hope he won't be lonely over there! Interesting that your female lives in one of the rocks. It will be fun to watch them develope


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## piper28 (Mar 11, 2011)

Ladyfish said:


> Haha, I know what you mean. Keep fry in check the natural way? Or not? That's a dilemma. I do like the looks paracyps, but I thought the 30" length was not enough for them, and they would prefer larger, like a 55G? I read a thread on this forum where that was mentioned. I've been very surprised at how much I like the Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish I have in there now with the multies. Really lovely, and neat behavior.


Yeah, I wasn't too sure about the 30" myself with the paracyps, but they are listed in the cookie-cutter setup for a 29G. I'll have to try taking a look at the Rainbowfish if the store has any and see what I think of them too.

I'm keeping an eye out for a bigger tank too, there's some pretty decent deals that come up on craigslist around here. I've come close to looking seriously into a couple that have been listed.


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

I just got some Rainbowfish today for my Molly tank, and they are SO pretty!


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Storiwyr said:


> I just got some Rainbowfish today for my Molly tank, and they are SO pretty!


Nice! Aren't they lovely?! How many did you get? I have a dozen, and they are so pretty all schooling together. They like to nibble my fingers whenever I reach into the tank 

Did you get the Dwarf Neons (praecox) variety? I also have some featherfin (a.k.a. threadfin) rainbowfish in my 10G (oh, right, that sprang a leak last weekend, and I moved them all into a second 20L!) I like them too, they are very delicate with their long trailing fins, but not nearly as pretty as the praecox.


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## Storiwyr (Apr 24, 2012)

Yes, they are the praecox. They also had Featherfin Rainbows, but hubby and I decided we like the looks of the non-featherfins better. I m not at all sad with my choice, they're already fun to watch and have acted as dithers for our single remaining Red Crystal Shrimp. I got six yesterday, but I love them so much, I'm going back and getting more today! And maybe some buddies for the red crystal shrimp as well, since he's much more interesting to watch now that he's out and about.

Fish are SO cool. I'm glad I have awesome forum buddies to rave at, because most of my non-aquarist friends can't figure out what the big deal is!


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Storiwyr said:


> Yes, they are the praecox. They also had Featherfin Rainbows, but hubby and I decided we like the looks of the non-featherfins better. I m not at all sad with my choice, they're already fun to watch and have acted as dithers for our single remaining Red Crystal Shrimp. I got six yesterday, but I love them so much, I'm going back and getting more today! And maybe some buddies for the red crystal shrimp as well, since he's much more interesting to watch now that he's out and about.
> 
> Fish are SO cool. I'm glad I have awesome forum buddies to rave at, because most of my non-aquarist friends can't figure out what the big deal is!


Totally agree, I like the praecox lots better too (sorry featherfins!) A dozen is really a nice look, too, although I'm down to 11 now. I think I have about 4 males and 7 females, but a couple of them are hard to tell at this age.

Yeah, I really appreciate all the feedback I get on this forum - and all the enthusiasm! Great to have people to share all the exitement with!  I try to tell my family, and they nod politely for a bit, but quickly I can see their eyes glazing over. Probably how I look when my husband starts talking football at me ;-)


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ladyfish said:


> Yeah, I really appreciate all the feedback I get on this forum - and all the enthusiasm! Great to have people to share all the exitement with!  I try to tell my family, and they nod politely for a bit, but quickly I can see their eyes glazing over. Probably how I look when my husband starts talking football at me ;-)


The SAME thing happens to me! Most of my friends just laugh at me when I tell them I want order more fish or get another tank. So glad to have this forum!


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Interesting to watch the multies. I don't see them digging, but every morning I see new pits - mostly dug around the glass on the side of the tank.

Meanwhile, I've gotten a good look at The Sixth Multie (of course I've named him #6). He is quite large, perhaps as large as Big Jake, who will not allow him in the main shell bed and chases him if he gets over it. Otherwise, they all live in peace. I've given #6 about 4 shells, and he happily chases the rainbows away, hovering in and around his shells very possessively.

There is also a very tiny female I've named Scout. She has her own shell and seems well accepted by the other multies, but she seems happy to be adventurous, scouting around quite a ways from the shell bed. I wonder if she will join up with #6? He is probably getting a bit lonely over there!


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## thefishermann (Apr 24, 2012)

i have a 2217 running my 20 long planted. instead of the spraybar i use a directional outflow (like a lily pipe) close to the surface. i've got a great current flowing, ample water agitation and my heater and co2 plumbed inline which leaves a lot of free space in tank.

i just replaced the white floss last week, its been running on autopilot for the past 11 months, i love it and would do it all over again


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

thefishermann said:


> i have a 2217 running my 20 long planted. instead of the spraybar i use a directional outflow (like a lily pipe) close to the surface. i've got a great current flowing, ample water agitation and my heater and co2 plumbed inline which leaves a lot of free space in tank.
> 
> i just replaced the white floss last week, its been running on autopilot for the past 11 months, i love it and would do it all over again


Very cool! I would love to run canisters on both my 20L tanks in my office, but alas there is no room for them. Nice idea about the inline heater and co2 - more space is always a good thing! If I ever get around to rearranging my office, I will probably build a couple stands with room for canisters. Hmmm, yet another project!


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Update on the multies: They have settled in very well! There are pot holes forming all around the shells, but the excavations must occur in the wee hours, as I have never observed them digging. Big Jake is definitely the main shell bed boss. He keeps his girls in line, and they seem happy with him and with each other. I solved the feeding problem with a turkey baster - squirt some for the Rainbows, some into the shells. Seems to keep them all well fed!

#6 multie has his own set of shells now, and he has seemed content enough. The tiny female, Scout, zooms over to check out his shells from time to time, but I think she is mainly interested in keeping him away from the main shell bed.

Oooh, something new just within the last couple hours. Scout and the other tiny female are digging pits together at the front of the tank right against the glass, not really close to either shell bed or the rocks. The large female Queenie seems to be on guard. Could she have chased them from the main shell bed? :-?

I just went over to take a closer look. Scout very hesitantly ducked inside one of #6's shells. The other Tiny just hovered on the sand, in no-man's land. Should I make a third shell bed near their pits? Or let them join up with #6? Wow, this is all so fascinating! The drama!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Awesome!

Pics or videos?


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## Ladyfish (Jul 21, 2012)

Pictures from today.

Queenie (the largest female) on the left, and Big Jake (the Boss) on the right. There are only 3 remaining in the main shell bed - these 2 and 1 large, unnamed female, who has taken up residence in the back. She is a big flirt, so I'll have to think of an appropriate name.









Number 6 - big handsome strapping young multie, presiding over his own little domain. 









Tiny - digging her pits at the front of the tank (you can see Number 6's shells in the background) She seems pretty lost without a shell. Even when scared, she just hovers on the sand, hoping to remain unseen. 









Scout - the tiniest of them all, making her way very slowly and stealthily towards Number 6's shells. She pops into the closest shell to hide when I walk by, but leaves as soon as she can. Number 6 has not caught on ... yet.


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