# Dirty Water - Please Help



## nagukush (Oct 16, 2008)

Hi Friends,

I'm running a Eheim 2217 on my 4 Feet (250 Liter) Tank and Even after 3 months of operation, the filter is not able to keep my Water clean. It has a lot of suspended dirt, cloudiness etc... Its really very frustrating...

Kindly help and guide me on what could be wrong here...

Actually I have kept the Inlet (Sucking End) and the Outlet (Spraybar placed vertically) on the same corner - its placed such that the spraybar sprays water right across the sucking end eventually hitting the front glass surface diagonally. Can this be the problem ? Is this making the water dirty and cloudy ?

Kindly guide me and help !
Regards
Kush


----------



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Hi Kush,

What are you using for mechanical filtration - by that I mean something that isn't designed so much with bacteria in mind, but for removing the finer particles that pass through biological sponges.

As an example I use a 20 and 30 micron pad along with a very fine micron sheet (I put this after all the other filter material, bacterial or otherwise, otherwise it clogs too quickly) to extract the tiny particles that I think you may be referring to.

http://www.aquatichouse.com/FILTRATION% ... asp#foam30

http://www.aquatichouse.com/FILTRATION% ... asp#foam20

http://www.aquatichouse.com/FILTRATION% ... #micronpad

^^ Just so you have an idea of what I am talking about.


----------



## nagukush (Oct 16, 2008)

Hi there !

Thanks a lot for the kind reply. I'm using the Eheim Coarse Filter pads (6 pads) for biological filtration and 2 pads of Ehiem Fine Filter pads on top. Actually 6 coarse pads with 1 fine pad is what comes with the Eheim 2217, but I have placed an extra white pad as I thought it will provide even better filtration...

Can it be because the inlet and outlet are on the same corner of the aquarium ? May be the outlet jet pushes the dirt away from the inlet because of which they're not getting filtered ?

Kindly guide me...
Thanks again !
Kush


----------



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

It may be, but it sounds like the fine pads aren't catching all of the fine particles.... How long since you gave the finest pads a clean/replace?

It could be the positioning of the inlet/outlet but I wouldn't expect it to make _that_ much difference.

See this thread for how I have my inlets/outlets:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=

You might as well try cleaning/replacing the finer pad and see if that helps, otherwise re-position the inlet/outlets.

Sorry I can't be of more help!


----------



## nagukush (Oct 16, 2008)

Hi there !

Thanks again for the kind help. Your tank is just BEAUTIFUL !!! 

Anyways, can it be because I'm overstocked and the bioload is very high ?

I have 6 x 3" Frontosas, 4 x 4" Electric Yellow Labs, 8 x 2" Electric Yellow Labs, 4 x 2" Loaches and 2 x 2" Plecos in my 4 Feet Tank (about 200 Liters)

I know the frontosas will get big but before they run out of space, I'll remove the yellow labs ... Am I already dangerously over-stocked ? I change about 50% water every week...

Kindly advice...

p.s - I also have the Eheim Wide Jet Pipe. Will it help if I use it make a single outlet jet on the water surface, while the Inlet will remain on the same corner but much below it ? Any ideas ?


----------



## nagukush (Oct 16, 2008)

Also I feed my fish almost exclusively bloodworms everyday (frozen or live) - can it be because of this that there is a bacterial bloom everytime I put the worms inside the tank ? Will a flocculent help here ?


----------



## algae eater (Jul 29, 2008)

Hi -- I have an Eheim 2215. When I bought it, it came with the spraybar like you have. My water wasn't clear either. I got rid of the spraybar and replaced it with a plastic tube that is similiar to the input tube. Much more water is able to come into the tank and it is clear all of the time. Check your local fish store for one.


----------



## Guest (Dec 4, 2008)

I recommend placing the inlet and outlet at the opposite corners of the tank. This will provide better water movement and will help with water clarity. It should improve the water clarity. And yes, your tank is overstocked which means you will have to perform more frequent water changes and you will have to clean your filter more often. Hope things work out.


----------



## moneygetter1 (Jan 8, 2006)

8) Agree w/ above. Water movement aids in paticulate removal. Placing the in & out at opposite ends will create a better flow. ( P/H can also assist in movement in dead spots.) Even though the '2217' is an adequate filter, maintainance frequency might need to be increased due to excessive waste from your stock in a somewhat concentrated area. (55g) The fine/superfine pads are guaranteed to need cleaning/changing in this case. Your nitrate level is also probably difficult to control. A 75/90g might be better w/ existing stock. "T"


----------



## moneygetter1 (Jan 8, 2006)

8) Additionally, filter setups tend to vary but some are more ideal than others. Mfgrs. specs tend to be recommended for optimum performance but you can sometimes substitute without compromising efficency.
_"EHFIMECH should be used at the bottom suction area. It provides mechanical filtration. Next is a Coarse Filter Pad. The next layer of EHFISUBSTRAT will act as the main biological filter medium. The substrate's high porousity is ideal for bacteria colonization and ensures unbeatable long term decomposition of Ammonia and Nitrites. Next is a Fine Filter Pad and a carbon pad. Chemi-pure can be used as a replacement for the Carbon Pad for chemical filtration (10oz per 50 gallons) for freshwater aquariums. Depending upon the desired water quality, the layers of filter media can be increased. Specific water treatment can also be achieved with an individual filter media arrangement"_ "T"


----------



## nagukush (Oct 16, 2008)

dntx5b9 said:


> I recommend placing the inlet and outlet at the opposite corners of the tank. This will provide better water movement and will help with water clarity. It should improve the water clarity. And yes, your tank is overstocked which means you will have to perform more frequent water changes and you will have to clean your filter more often. Hope things work out.





dntx5b9 said:


> I recommend placing the inlet and outlet at the opposite corners of the tank. This will provide better water movement and will help with water clarity. It should improve the water clarity. And yes, your tank is overstocked which means you will have to perform more frequent water changes and you will have to clean your filter more often. Hope things work out.


Hi Friends !

I have changed the Input-Output configuration. I have replaced the Output spray bar with a Wide Jet Pipe that pushes out water as a single large jet of water on the surface. This way the output water doesnt get in the way of inlet and the water clarity has greatly improved !

So is my tank very dangerously overstocked ? I mean so will it be better to rmovea few fishes ?

My water changes are - 50% Water Change weekly (though I dont gravel-vac to remove solid wastes (I'm not lazy but most of the tank's base in covered with rocks, decor ad I cant reach the substrate effectively)

Is this fine for my current stock or should I remove a few yellow labs ? Kindly guide me...

I'm also adding a Eheim 2210 Aquaball Internal Filter tomorrow...

Please guide me if I can keep the yellow labs for a few days (as my Mom loves themvery much ), or do I remove them immediately ? Anyways, I'm afraid that the increased solid wastes may stunt my frontosas...,


----------



## moneygetter1 (Jan 8, 2006)

8) Do you have a water test kit? If so, test your nitrate level & post the results. That will give you (& us) a better idea of your water quality status. If the level is high, (above 20ppm) don't panic. Just increase your water change schedule (50/75%) to bring the nitrates down to a safe level. (20ppm or less is optimum) If it's very high (80/100ppm or more), do the W/C's daily (25/50%) to bring the nitrate level down more slowly. http://www.petinindia.com/no3-test-ki3.html (maybe not the best but will give you an idea where you stand) Once you have the info you can determine whether you need less fish or more tank. "T"


----------



## Guest (Dec 4, 2008)

I wouldn't say you are dangerously overstocked, but as mentioned above, you will have to test your water to find out whether your current water change schedule is meeting the needs. Like I said earlier, if you are over stocked, it means more frequent water changes and filter cleaning.


----------



## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

i thought blood worms werent good for cichlids?


----------



## josmoloco (Aug 23, 2008)

"i thought blood worms werent good for cichlids?"

For frontosas they are! But the yellow labs should get at least some good quality vegetable based foods.


----------



## josmoloco (Aug 23, 2008)

"i thought blood worms werent good for cichlids?"

For frontosas they are! But the yellow labs should get at least some good quality vegetable based foods.


----------



## nagukush (Oct 16, 2008)

Hi Friends !

Thats wonderful ! So can I keep the yellow labs for some more time ? My wife and mom will be delighted !!! 

Anyways, I just made a DIY fish trap to catch and remove the smaller yellow labs - but I guess I'll wait for some more time... Will this be ok ?

I'm just worried that this over-crowded condition might restrict the growth of my fronts - Will they still continue to grow if I keep up with my water changes ? Kindly guide me regarding this as I'm really worried - I want them big and strong 

Thanks a lot again !

Regarding Nitrate test, I dont have a test kit and I cant get one here... Is there any other way to detrmine the nitrate levels in my tank water ? I mean are any commercial tests available for this (other than petstores?)

Kindly guide me..
Thanks a lot !
Regards and Care
Kush


----------



## nagukush (Oct 16, 2008)

Hi Friends !

Thats wonderful ! So can I keep the yellow labs for some more time ? My wife and mom will be delighted !!! 

Anyways, I just made a DIY fish trap to catch and remove the smaller yellow labs - but I guess I'll wait for some more time... Will this be ok ?

I'm just worried that this over-crowded condition might restrict the growth of my fronts - Will they still continue to grow if I keep up with my water changes ? Kindly guide me regarding this as I'm really worried - I want them big and strong 

Thanks a lot again !

Regarding Nitrate test, I dont have a test kit and I cant get one here... Is there any other way to detrmine the nitrate levels in my tank water ? I mean are any commercial tests available for this (other than petstores?)

Kindly guide me..
Thanks a lot !
Regards and Care
Kush


----------



## moneygetter1 (Jan 8, 2006)

8) Just in case you missed it. I believe this is in your area.

http://www.petinindia.com/no3-test-ki3.html (maybe not the best but will give you an idea where you stand) Once you have the info you can determine whether you need less fish or more tank. "T"


----------



## nagukush (Oct 16, 2008)

moneygetter1 said:


> 8) Just in case you missed it. I believe this is in your area.
> 
> http://www.petinindia.com/no3-test-ki3.html (maybe not the best but will give you an idea where you stand) Once you have the info you can determine whether you need less fish or more tank. "T"


Hi there !

Thanks a lot for the link - I've emailed the store guy and waiting for a response... I wish I'll get the kit asap...

Thanks a lot again !
Regards and Care
Kush


----------



## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

Kush,

If you're planning on keeping the fronts long term, I'd look seriously at getting a 6' tank sometime in the near future. Labs and Fronts are completely different cichlids, and have completely different needs in terms of housing and feeding.

Labs do great in 4 ft tanks long term, but you need to keep an eye on the diet. Bloodworms aren't really their optimal diet. In addition, they prefer a rocky habitat, with lots of hiding places. The tank you have sounds like a great place to keep labs, so I'd hang onto those for now.

Fronts, on the other hand, get to be too large for a 4 ft tank. Bloodworms are a fine diet, but I'd add a good pellet to round out their diet as well. If you want them to get big, and you want to keep them properly, it's time to start scouring the classified ads for a larger tank.


----------



## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

BTW, I think you're sorta overstocked for now. I'd up the frequency of the water changes till you find a larger home for the fronts.


----------



## nathan3b (Nov 10, 2008)

Large fronts and labs do not mix! a very high chance that your labs will start nipping on your fronts fins  i was forced to find my 7-8inch front a new home because my labs loved to nip on his top dorsal fin. Also feeding the fronts once they get large in size will be difficult with other small fish around them.


----------



## nagukush (Oct 16, 2008)

Hi there !

Thanks for the kind reply... I've removed all the labs too... Now I just have the fronts in there and I'm looking for a few bottom feeders as tankmates (to keep the substrate clean) - any ideas on which fish might work ?

Kindly guide me...
Thanks again !
Kush


----------



## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

maybe look into some synodontis catfish.....there are a few different species...


----------

