# 4x18x18 Too small For Tropheus?



## tangy1 (Mar 2, 2008)

Hi,
I am considering a colony of 20 red rainbows. I have only a 4x18x18 available for them.
They are only about 3-4cm at present but would keep them in this tank long term.

Your thoughts?


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Your tank's footprint is the same as a 75 gallon (assuming you mean 48x18x18). According to the article below, you should be fine.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/t ... w_many.php


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## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

I agree with Zimmy, I have used that sized tank in the past, I wouldn't suggest anything smaller though.


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## BrownBullhead (May 15, 2005)

My calculations show that as a 67-gallon aquarium.  I used 48x18x18 / 231. The calculation above used 207 instead of 231.

I keep my Tropheus in 48 x 24 footprint, 18" deep. I have had some success but I find my margin of error is narrow in these tanks. :/


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## tangy1 (Mar 2, 2008)

Yes sorry. Tank is 48x18x18


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## BrownBullhead (May 15, 2005)

tangy1: My issue was not with your measurements - I interpreted them correctly. It was the divisor used by someone else in the thread to compute gallons contained in the tank. I calculated as 48x18x18 / 231. They calculated as 48x18x18 / 207.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

About the min I would try (long term) with Sp Red. Give it about a 50 50 chance of getting a breeding group out of it.
Prob best to keep the rockwork down to just two very large rocks or just some flat rocks (counter intuitive I know but long term territories you need to avoid in these tanks).
It has been done in smaller well managed well filtered tanks and some luck (female heavy group helps but thats just luck).
I guess I should ask "Do you feel lucky"?

For sure I would try dubs in that tank, prob give that a 3 in four chance esp as they are sexable so young.

Saying that its better than the tank I first tried sp red in, that was 48" long 15" wide and 18" tall.
Needless to say I had probs but did get em to breed.
Not very long lives though. Under 4 years. Average closer to 2.
Later trys in bigger tanks
72"x24"x24" I got nearly all of em to live over 5 years and breed for me far more.
Latest try in a 64"x16"x16"....after 5 years........kind of disapointed this tank not much better than the 48"x15"x18" long term.

All the best James


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

BrownBullhead said:


> My calculations show that as a 67-gallon aquarium.  I used 48x18x18 / 231. The calculation above used 207 instead of 231.


No, it didn't. He said it's the same footprint as a 75g. A 75g is taller.


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## design1stcode2nd (Jun 24, 2011)

I only have room for a 4' tank, it can be a 90g, 120g, or even 150g but still only 48" wide. I was planning on doing Mbuna as I don't care for the looks of Haps or Peacocks, I do really like the look of Tropheus (Tropheus moorii Moliro/Tropheus sp. ''Red'' Moliro ''Firecracker'' to be more precise).

Would a deeper or taller tank make any difference or should I stick with Mbuna? The only concern I have with Trophs is it seems I'll only have one color fish for the entire tank (at least with a 4 footer).


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

design1stcode2nd said:


> I only have room for a 4' tank, it can be a 90g, 120g, or even 150g but still only 48" wide. I was planning on doing Mbuna as I don't care for the looks of Haps or Peacocks, I do really like the look of Tropheus (Tropheus moorii Moliro/Tropheus sp. ''Red'' Moliro ''Firecracker'' to be more precise).
> 
> Would a deeper or taller tank make any difference or should I stick with Mbuna? The only concern I have with Trophs is it seems I'll only have one color fish for the entire tank (at least with a 4 footer).


I think tropheus will get more use out of a taller 48" tank (unless you're willing to stack rocks to the water line). I wouldn't go more than 24" in height though because the tank becomes harder to clean.

Not having a variety of colors with tropheus is definitely a trade-off. I have 25 Muragos in my 110 gallon and sometimes wish there was more color and variety...but, they're so amazingly active and entertaining that I never tire of watching them.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

design1stcode2nd said:


> I only have room for a 4' tank, it can be a 90g, 120g, or even 150g but still only 48" wide. I was planning on doing Mbuna as I don't care for the looks of Haps or Peacocks, I do really like the look of Tropheus (Tropheus moorii Moliro/Tropheus sp. ''Red'' Moliro ''Firecracker'' to be more precise).
> 
> Would a deeper or taller tank make any difference or should I stick with Mbuna? The only concern I have with Trophs is it seems I'll only have one color fish for the entire tank (at least with a 4 footer).


For sure then I would say go for the biggest of those. It will give you the greatest chance of success and the greatest chance of good success and most importantly I think you will enjoy keeping em in that most. 8)

My own Tropheus tank is only about 70g if you do the calculations and for sure is not as good or as enjoyable as 100g. 125g and 200g tanks I have kept in the past for a group when adult.

Tropheus sp. "Red" (Moliro) is a fine choice (not esp hard and one of the best looking less expensive common variants but not as easy as say duboisi).

As a ranking with Mbuna you might have tried I would say about as hard to keep and breed a group (agression wise) as Labeotropheus fuelleborni. That is the bigger more stroppy more vegie Mbuna but for some reason they are better as a group wheras Mbuna still do well one male to a bunch of females. Tropheus seem harder than them that way and demand better water. Well kept Mbuna tanks are on a par but things you can get away (poorish water, missed waterchanges, fish dieing in the tank, pore group dynamics, too many rocks ) with with Mbuna will more often see a Troph tank fail.

I advise getting many more than you want as adults (14-20) if buying cheapish F1 from wild or tank bred or pond/farm bred unsexable guys at about 11/2"-2", (24-38) so you can easily prune the group as they grow.
Some individuals do not grow well and you may want to remove many of the males over time.
It is far easier to get em all in one go and grow them together without changing the group (except to remove those you want to) than to introduce more later.

All the best James


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## design1stcode2nd (Jun 24, 2011)

Thanks for the advice, from the videos I've seen it appears that Troph's do use most of a tank's height and if nothing else it's a larger volume of water.

I have a little time as I've yet to find a tank I like (craigslist) so it will need to be cycled. Other than good filtration, weekly PWC's, getting a large colony of juveniles, proper diet/feedings and good circulation (planning on 1-2 power heads) Troph's don't seem that difficult on paper/screen at least.

I assume if I did make a Tropheus tank I could add some gobies and spotted cats for other body types/colors.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

design1stcode2nd said:


> I assume if I did make a Tropheus tank I could add some gobies and spotted cats for other body types/colors.


Yep. Quarentine em fully first, gobie cichlids esp can carry bloat bugs into a Troph tank.
I have both of these in with some of my Tropheus.
They do I think reduce the chance of Tropheus fry surviving in the main tank and the Synos may actually reduce the Troph breeding.
Communitty tank or breeding tank, kind of your choice.

All the best James


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