# Advice please? First foray into Mbuna keeping.



## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

Hello all.
Recently joined this forum, although I have been lurking and reading for a while as a guest.

OK, here's a bit of background.
I live in Essex, in the UK.
I have been keeping fish for many years (25+) and currently have 2 marine tanks. 1 fish only, and 1 reef tank.

Anyway, I have a spare sumped tank doing nothing right now.

It is a 48x18x24 deep. It has a sump of around 42x12x18deep.
This is the tank I want to use for Mbuna.
I have all the necessary pumps, filtration, led lighting etc needed.

In summary, I am used to keeping a glass box full of water in perfect condition :thumb:

So here are my questions . . .

1.. Can I use old (marine) living rock in a mbuna tank? It has all been thoroughly cleaned and washed, and has been in a garage for 3 yrs.

2.. I also have a couple of bags of coral sand which I hope to use. Will this be OK?

3..Stocking, the biggest question. Here are my choices .

Pseudotropheus Saulosi 
Pseudotropheus Polit
Metriaclima Estherae
Labidochromis Caeruleus

All of these will be 1M:4F with a total number of fish being 20. ENough? or do I aim for more?

Finally, any ideas on suppliers in Lonodn/SouthEast?
Any other thoughts and ideas welcomed.
Thanks in advance.


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## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

The rocks should be fine, as long as they're cleaned really good. The sand will also work. I would change some of the stocking though. The labs, zebra, and female saulosi all look pretty similar.


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## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

james1983 said:


> The rocks should be fine, as long as they're cleaned really good. The sand will also work. I would change some of the stocking though. The labs, zebra, and female saulosi all look pretty similar.


Thank you for the reply.
Good to know I can use the rock and sand, yay !!

The stocking question is the hardest for me. 
I would like a good mix of colours, so a rethink is in order.
Is the number (20) a good amount, as in 5 individuals of 4 species ? or can I aim for more (or less )?

Thanks again.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

20 is a good number. I would go with less if you choose overly aggressive species. Use 2 or 3 species slots for Saulosi and go with white labs for the 4th.

Socolofi are a good choice for solid blue. Or Metriaclima callainos.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

I like the recommendation of Saulosi, the white Labs, and Cobalt Blue Zebra. I have kept Socolifi before, and they were not as vivid blue as I thought they'd be. They were a rather dull pale blue. I don't recommend them, just my personal opinion. Or, you could consider mainganos for blue color, both male and female have great color. They are aggressive though, so I'd stock 1M to perhaps 6F, instead of the traditional 1M:4F.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

scubacrazy123 said:


> It is a 48x18x24 deep. It has a sump of around 42x12x18deep.


is the sump almost the same size than the tank is?... if yes... that thing is huge then...


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## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

joselepiu said:


> scubacrazy123 said:
> 
> 
> > It is a 48x18x24 deep. It has a sump of around 42x12x18deep.
> ...


Yes, it was a marine tank in a previous life. The sump has a few chambers, and I have it set up with sponge in the first chamber which is fed via the downpipe from the weir in the display, with a layer of floss for mechanical cleaning, then I have an empty chamber, which is where the skimmer lived. Not sure what to have in this chamber yet. Then it goes into another chamber where I have a fluidised sand bed reactor, and another reactor full of Siporax, I also have the heaters in the sump too, which are controlled by a TC-10, which also controls the cooling fans if the temp gets too high. In the final chamber is the return pump to the display, whic runs at around 5000 Litres per hour and returns the water via 2 suface feeds.
The display has a weir, and a twin durso overflow to feed the sump, and in the display I have a pair of Jeboa wavemakers, which alter the flow/waves.currents as I want.
It served me well as a reef tank, should be OK for my cichlids too !!


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

nice...
:fish: :thumb: =D> :thumb: :fish: ...


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## gillmanjr (Jan 27, 2017)

Austinite said:


> I like the recommendation of Saulosi, the white Labs, and Cobalt Blue Zebra. I have kept Socolifi before, and they were not as vivid blue as I thought they'd be. They were a rather dull pale blue. I don't recommend them, just my personal opinion. Or, you could consider mainganos for blue color, both male and female have great color. They are aggressive though, so I'd stock 1M to perhaps 6F, instead of the traditional 1M:4F.


I agree with the Socolofi coloring. I have them and they are definitely a pale blue. I like them because of their shape and their attitude. But if you are looking for a bolder or darker blue color I would go with Cobalts or maybe yellow tail acei?


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## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

OK, so before my head explodes with the possible combinations/permutations, how about this mix:

Pseodotropheus Saulosi 10
White labs 5
Metriaclima estherae OB 5
Would this work?
I need to sort this out, as my tank will be ready for fish soon !!

Thanks for all the advice so far !


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

Remember that only the male Saulosi will be blue (females yellow), so you don't have many blue fish, weren't you wanting more blue?


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## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

You're absolutely right, of course. OK so I'll have 4 groups of 5 each of:

Pseodotropheus Saulosi 5
White labs 5
Metriaclima estherae OB 5
Metriaclima callainos (bright blue) 5

In another thread I ask the question how to add them. All together, or in 2 lots, or whatever way is best ?

And I thought keeping a reef was confusing !!!!


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## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

Sorry, meant to add all fish will be sourced from one breeder, and all will be juveniles.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

Check the cookie cutter recs, not sure if you can add two Metriaclima species together....I may be wrong on that....


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## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

Austinite said:


> Check the cookie cutter recs, not sure if you can add two Metriaclima species together....I may be wrong on that....


Hadn't thought of that. The reason for the Metriaclima callainos was to add some bright blue.

Any ideas? 
(This is harder than I thought)


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

you can check up here for ideas...

cookie cutter setups ...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Callainos is a pastel blue. Saulosi would be your bright blue.

You could substitute socolofi for another solid pastel blue. Or acei.

If you are buying all juveniles (which we usually have to do) you may want to consider buying more so you end up with at least 4 females in each group. What we do is rehome extra males as they mature if they cause problems. I would expect metriaclima and socolofi to work best with only one male of each.


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## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

joselepiu said:


> you can check up here for ideas...
> 
> cookie cutter setups ...


Thank you for that. I should have checked that out. 
A useful resource.


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## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

DJRansome said:


> Callainos is a pastel blue. Saulosi would be your bright blue.
> 
> You could substitute socolofi for another solid pastel blue. Or acei.
> 
> If you are buying all juveniles (which we usually have to do) you may want to consider buying more so you end up with at least 4 females in each group. What we do is rehome extra males as they mature if they cause problems. I would expect metriaclima and socolofi to work best with only one male of each.


I like the look of the acei. Thank you.
So now, my stock list looks like this:

Pseodotropheus Saulosi 5
White labs 5
Metriaclima estherae OB 5
Pseoudotropheus Acei 5

Would this combo work?
Giving a nice range of different colours, and a total of 20 adults.

So when buying enough to ensure 1M:5F, how many should I order of each species? 
And are there any which can be sexed as juveniles?
The breeders I am looking at here in the UK sell juveniles at around 5-7cm (2-2.5 inches)

And thanks again for the help and advice.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

scubacrazy123 said:


> So now, my stock list looks like this:
> *Pseodotropheus* Saulosi 5
> White labs 5
> Metriaclima estherae OB 5
> ...


now you have 2 *pseoudotropheus*...  :roll: :?

but i think that the pseodotropheus Saulosi is not a pseodotropheusbut a chindongo now, wait for someone with an experience to confirm or denied it, just to be on the safe side... so maybe it is ok... -- ??? :thumb: ???...



scubacrazy123 said:


> So when buying enough to ensure 1M:5F, how many should I order of each species? And thanks again for the help and advice.


usually it is recommended to buy 10 of each species, so hopefully you have a 50 - 50 chance of getting 5m and 5f but most of the time that is not the case that kind of will be in a perfect world... :lol: :lol: :lol: ...

hopefully you will end up with more females than males... :roll: :? :thumb: :dancing:


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## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

I have read somewhere about names changing, but chose to ignore it, as it was overloading my confusion gland !!

Just spotted some OB Labeotropheus trewevasae "Thumbi West", from my chosen supplier, they might be an option jnstead of the acei?
Added benefit of adding a bit of red/peach into the mix.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Pseudotropheus is not a group of fish that have been determined to belong to that species...it is a holding place for fish waiting for a species to be assigned. They are OK together. I would do acei for the colorful females. Trewavasae females are drab. Also a more aggressive fish so you might want 1m:7f of these.

The estherae are red/peach.


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## beast666 (Dec 6, 2017)

Acei will be fine with saulosi, they are pretty peaceful for mbuna and often shoal in the higher water, so staying out of the way. If you want blue and aren't fixed on strictly mbuna, I have had lots of success with sc. Fryeri which are brilliant blue and not too aggressive. They also grow to a nice size.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

beast666 said:


> If you want blue and aren't fixed on strictly mbuna, I have had lots of success with sc. Fryeri which are brilliant blue and not too aggressive. They also grow to a nice size.


how are the females?... :-? :-? :-? ...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Silver.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

I wouldn't keep two metriaclima species together. I also wouldn't keep M.Estherea with Saulosi. The females have a very similar coloration. Though the saulosi females may not pick an estherea male to spawn,it is likely the estherea male will try.anyways. I would expect them to cross breed. So Saulosi,Caillainos,White Labs would be good.


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## beast666 (Dec 6, 2017)

joselepiu said:


> beast666 said:
> 
> 
> > If you want blue and aren't fixed on strictly mbuna, I have had lots of success with sc. Fryeri which are brilliant blue and not too aggressive. They also grow to a nice size.
> ...


Mine were brownish with silvery flanks. I had 2m 2f to start although 1 m died as the two battled for dominance. I still have the other male who is fully coloured despite the females having since passed. They were aggressive towards each other but leave the other fish alone. If you get them as juveniles they look a bit drab to start but the colour change is dramatic as they grow. Would definitely recommend.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: ...


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## beast666 (Dec 6, 2017)

Just put a pic up of him as my avatar.


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## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

OK, so after much reading on here, and other sources, how does the following mix look?

White Labidochromis 
Iodotropheus sprengerae
Cynotilapia sp hara
Pseudotropheus Saulosi

Seems to be a good mix of colours. 
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Sounds good.


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## beast666 (Dec 6, 2017)

Sounds like a nice mix there


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## scubacrazy123 (Jan 5, 2015)

Great news, looks like I have a shopping list.
While the tank is cycling I will try and find a UK supplier/breeder with all of them available at the same time.
How hard can it be??......


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

scubacrazy123 said:


> How hard can it be??......


lol... :lol: :lol: :lol: ...

i been trying to do that for about 2 months now in the usa...  :x :?

but good luck... :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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