# Cichlids Flashing after Cycle...Help



## &lt;=U=L=T=R=A=&gt; (Apr 21, 2010)

Well I finished the cycle about a week ago.
I had high nitrite of 2.0+ and went down to 0 but the nitrate only went up from 10 to 20 not that high.
Anyways I fed the goldfish allot so they can produce more ammonia, after 3 days of testing no ammonia.
Well I ended up placing some cichlids in there ,and they all flash and one of them swims up and down .I seen this reaction where there's ammonia present.They do not have ich or any other type of diseases.

I have been testing everyday since i put them in there and ammonia is 0 nitrite 0 ph 7.8 and nitrate 10 
I did a small 25% water change with prime to drop the nitrate from 20 to 10 when I first place cichlids in there.
They are flashing less, but are still doing it.

Should I do another Water change?
Do you guys think there might be chlorine? And does the ammonia tester pick that up?
Please advise guys


----------



## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

If you think there's chlorine, use prime or something similar.

10-20 nitrate won't harm fish and won't cause flashing.


----------



## &lt;=U=L=T=R=A=&gt; (Apr 21, 2010)

When I noticed them flashing days ago I added prime but no results...I did notice last week when i did a water change on my 40 gallon the fish where flashing..I have a half gallon prime bottle and I was using the last of it.
Maybe it was week :-? I went last sunday and bought some new prime smells really bad :wink: 
Hopefully that was the problem...But I don't understand, if the tester shows 0 on the ammonia :-? 
Maybe my tester are old to ,since there almost out and I been having them for a year 

Im also gonna take the glass lids completely off and let the prime evaporate the chlorine, since I know that's in there.


----------



## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

You don't need to have your lids off if you added prime, it neutralizes chlorine INSTANTLY. Sometimes new fish in a new tank will swim up and down the glass at one or both ends of the tank, it seems to happen more with newly set up tanks, it will stop. Keep an eye on your ph, shifts can cause flashing. If you have any doubt about water quality, do a W/C with prime, and consider a new test kit.


----------



## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

Was there a change in pH between where you got the cichlids and your tank? That causes flashing. Also, they do it occasionally just to scratch an itch, or as a dominance display.

The other symptom, swimming up and down the glass, is called pacing, and cichlids do that often when placed in a new tank.


----------



## &lt;=U=L=T=R=A=&gt; (Apr 21, 2010)

First...Thank you for your help :thumb:

The water ph is at 7.8 and they noticeably flash  my tap water ph is 7.4

I have no ornaments whatsoever.
I have crushed coral as substrate.
My eheim 2229 all trays filled with eheim substrate pro.
The eheim 2228 1st tray has those macoroni type media second and third tray has that rock type media.
And A AC 110 powerhead with a hydrosponge
And I just had my eheim 2262 delivered today,but have not set it up yet.

Should I do A water change?
If so how much %

And does this ph change Hurt the cichlids?

Please Advise...

Edit ..I tested my tap water 5 months ago at 7.4
So i tested today and my tap is 8.8  maybe higher since it only reads to that high.

My other tanks I did 80% water change on both and dint see any flashing and i tested the others and there at 7.8..normal.


----------



## Prime Ordeal (Aug 10, 2011)

Hello ULTRA

Don't rule out Prime as the actual CAUSE of the flashing!

I have a small tank with six neon tetras and a couple of Panda Cories in it. Each time I do a water change I add the suggested dose of prime to my tap water.

Every time I do a water change I always get at least one of the fish, usually a tetra, flashing for a short while and - until today - I had put this down to differences in the new tap water and the old tank water (I change water weekly).

Today however I bought another Panda Cory and, long story short, I added a dose of Prime to my tank water but didn't add any new water. The idea was to ensure that there were absolutely no nasties, such as Ammonia, in the tank.

Within about a minute my smallest tetra was flashing badly. I had to go out at this point and returned about three hours later to find not only almost all of the tetras flashing (but not the cories surprisingly) but also caught one of them nipping at the old cory that I already had in the tank, something they normally never do.

I continued to watch them for the next hour or so and the flashing continued and again the cory was nipped a couple of times.

All in all very strange behaviour.

Now don't forget, this flashing started immediately after I dosed with Prime and before the new Cory was introduced.

I had suspected that Prime was the cause of the flashing on previous occasions but because it was always added with new tap water I couldn't be sure. After today's experience I am quite sure however. Prime CAN cause flashing...at least in my neon tetras!

The one thing I never liked about Prime is the slime coat 'enhancer' as this is clearly an irritant and, it appears, in large enough doses causes flashing.

I will be trying a dechlorinator that doesn't have a slime coat element to it in the future to finally prove my point.

I really think you should try the same just to reassure yourself that the Prime isn't the cause in your case.


----------



## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

If you can, test your tank and tap water hardness, GH and KH, as changes in hardness can cause flashing.
Also, keep an eye on the fish for any physical signs of disease or parasites.


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> The one thing I never liked about Prime is the slime coat 'enhancer' as this is clearly an irritant and, it appears, in large enough doses causes flashing.


Agree 100%. That's how Prime induces the fish to build slime coat, by adding an irritant. That's whay it NEVER goes in my tanks. Some products actually add something that builids a synthetic slime coat on the fish instead of using the irritant approach. I'd suggest getting something to just deal with chlorine/chloramine like Ammolock and run from anything that says anything on the bottle about encouraging the building of the fish's slime coat. Don't fall for the hype on the bottle that comes out of the marketing deparment. I know some think Prime is a wonderful product that does wonderrful things. Not sure what those wonderful things are. It just needs to dechlorinate. A dechlorinator should be boring.

A couple of lines from their site:

_PrimeÃ‚Â® detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them._

Your biofilter will NOT remove nitrate unless you've got some serious denitrification going on. The marketing people should take another look at this line. And detoxing nitrite has nothing to do with 'more efficient' removal of nitrite. They don't even know how it detoxes nitrite, by their own admission. What in the world would it do to make for more efficient removal by the biofiltration?

_It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels._

Do you have a heavy metal problem in your tap water? Even if so, the organics in any system will do the same. You don't need Prime to do this for you. Few people have a problem with heavy metals in the tap. Know you have a problem before you start dumping additives in to fix a problem you may not have. Bad practice to get into IMHO.

I know I've suggested Prime as a possible detox product for ammonia and ntirite when cycling with fish because Prime is the only product to claim that it detoxes nitrite. When someone's dealing with potentially toxic levels of nitrite, the possible negative side effects from using Prime become unimportant. Flashing is better than dying. But, best just to bring the toxic levels down with water changes.

I've never had fish flash due to any kind of water parameter changes. I'm thinking that there may be some other chemical reaction going on when people experience this possibly set off by the change in pH, GH, or KH, but not a direct result of those changes. There's something else in some folk's water that's not in everyone's water. Start with RO and run some tests and you may find that you don't get the flashing from changes in ph, GH, or KH.


----------



## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

*prov356*
There's something else in some folk's water that's not in everyone's water.

Its funny that this is being mentioned,when I used to use a python to refill my tanks,my mbuna(most)would flash and also shiver and shake,so I tried ageing my water and also added baking soda to bring up and stabalize my ph-my kh is quite low,no more flashing or shaking

I now have a 55 gallon drum with a recirc. pump and an airstone,I fill the drum and use it a few days later,my mbuna are not bothered by water changes any more


----------



## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I now have a 55 gallon drum with a recirc. pump and an airstone,I fill the drum and use it a few days later,my mbuna are not bothered by water changes any more


But, we still don't know exactly why. We don't know that the change in KH and pH resolved the issue. Be totally objective and you have to admit that there may still be something else going on. It's too easy to come to quick conclusions. Try aging your water without adding the baking soda or making any other changes other than dechlorinting. Check the result. It could be something that the conditioner is handling and have nothing to do with the baking soda. Or something that gasses off over time.


----------



## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

I should have been more clear,what worked for me might not work for you,I have a strong smell of chlorine coming out of the tap,
Make one change at a time,process of elimination


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2011)

When you add the Prime do you put it directly in the tank or do you put your water in a jug of some sort and add the prime to that? I put my water in a jug and add the prime to that and have no problems.


----------



## allierw (Apr 20, 2006)

I have used Prime for 5+ years and never had an issue. Never seen my fish flash or show distress after a WC. This includes regular Prime and the Pond Prime.


----------



## &lt;=U=L=T=R=A=&gt; (Apr 21, 2010)

pgage303 said:


> When you add the Prime do you put it directly in the tank or do you put your water in a jug of some sort and add the prime to that? I put my water in a jug and add the prime to that and have no problems.


First thanks you guys for all your responses/help 

I have 2 other tanks,and never had problems. 3 days ago I did the water change with prime on my 125 and 40 gallon tanks and all is normal.No flashing whatsoever.

I Have a 55 gallon square rubbermaid storage container,I fill that up in the tub and add the prime before I even start to syphon the water out of the aquariums. Once I do that, I place a powerful pond pump,in the premixed water and pump the water with the correct temperature from the tub to the aquariums.
I got the same fish from my 125 gallon and placed them in the 110 gallon.
And I know these 2 year old cichlids don't have side effects to the prime.As I do 85% water changes on a weekly bases.

So it must be something else :-? Or maybe it is ? In this tank of course  I have not tested my water yet for GH and KH im gonna buy the kit tomorrow morning, if they have it in stock of coourse :?

They are flashing less now but are still doing it.One yellow lab I have in there ,does not flash but swims up and down near the both ends of the aquarium pretty much non stop  
They all have there colors and eating normally,gill breathing is normal and no signs of diseases on gills nor the body.

AMMONIA is 0
NITRITE is 0
PH 7.8
NITRATE between 20 and 40 gonna do small water change tomorrow!

Last Thursday Nitrate was at 10 and it went up higher over weekend so I got cycle going =D>


----------



## rich_t (Nov 26, 2009)

Interesting comments above about Prime.

I've been using it for the past couple of weeks and have noticed that my fish flash a lot after a W/C.

I'll switch to another product and see if the flashing ceases.


----------



## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

rich_t said:


> Interesting comments above about Prime.
> 
> I've been using it for the past couple of weeks and have noticed that my fish flash a lot after a W/C.
> 
> I'll switch to another product and see if the flashing ceases.


Mine shake and flash a bit after water changes with prime as well. I always double dose to be sure and that probably has quite a bit to do with it.

Do you guys shake bottle of prime before adding. I didn't know if this made a difference or not. I do.


----------



## rich_t (Nov 26, 2009)

13razorbackfan said:


> rich_t said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting comments above about Prime.
> ...


The bottle doesn't say to shake it, but I do anyway.

I don't double dose, but I do dose a tad more than the instructions indicate.


----------



## rich_t (Nov 26, 2009)

On a side note....

I figured out why my nitrate seemed to be climbing faster that I thought it should between water changes.

My tap water is about 20 ppm.

I read another thread here last night that made me check.

So... What to do?

I talked to my LFS guy and he has a similar issue with his tap water, only he has high phosphate levels. He recommend what he uses in his personal tanks.

Fluval Clearmax. It claims to remove phosphate, nitrite, and nitrate.

I bought some and added it to the canisters today.

I am interested in seeing how well it works.


----------



## SavageHunter (Dec 9, 2011)

This has been an interesting thread. My fish always flash after a water change and I don't use Prime, but I do believe the dechlorinator IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve been using has a slime coat 'enhancer'. The flashing always subsides within a few hours after the WC, but I think I will be looking for a dechlorinator that does not have a slime coat 'enhancer' and see if that makes a difference.


----------



## malady (Nov 20, 2011)

I also seem to be having this problem

anymore insight?


----------

