# Labeotropheus fuelleborni (OB)- about species and breeding



## spotmonster (Nov 23, 2006)

Hey guys, been off the forum for almost a year now. Life keeps getting in the way. Anyway figured I'd come back and start posting again.

I acquired some marmalade cats recently at Extravaganza in NOV. Never had them before and know nothing about them. I had 3 but lost one due to them being small and getting eaten. Of the 2 I have left one is the blueberry variety and the other orange blotched variety.

So I took these remaining 2 and put them in my grow out 55. This tank is not for breeding and I don't harvest fry from it normally. The questions arise because the orange blotch is holding. I've done some research and now I am throughly confused about this fish. I've read things like most ob are females, only males are called marmalade cats, etc. Lots of conflicting info.

So list of questions start below.

1. Does the term "marmalade cat" describe variant, the fact that is ob or what?

2. Theoretically if the orange one was female and the blueberry male, is it ok to breed them? Would I expect a color mix?

3, Do they cross breed easily? The reason I ask of course is because there are other species in the tank. I haven't witnessed any shaking goin on. But the blue cat chases the orange one all over the tank like a usual male would a female. And now the holding female stays in the corner. 
Very typical of a spawn from my experience.

Here is what's in the tank: 1 m electric yellow, 1 m lemon jake, 5- f1 protomales mbenji, 3-4 exo anagenys, 1- foss rostratus, 1 mbuna hybrid, 1 female peacock hybrid. Note this is a growout tank, these fish are all small except the male peacock and male yellow. just put that in there before someone yells at me for overstocking a 55 with large haps :wink:

So what the chance of this fish holding hybrid eggs?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Mbuna crossbreed easily and chances are high your female is holding hybrids. Someone in the tank is apparently old enough to spawn. :thumb:

Others better at OB fish and labeos and genetics will hopefully chime in on your other questions.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

spotmonster said:


> 1. Does the term "marmalade cat" describe variant, the fact that is ob or what?


Marmalade cat is simply a trade name, and as such has no actual meaning.

If a Labeotropheus is wild caught or born of a traceable lineage its name would be _Labeotropheus fuelleborni_ (location). ex: _Labeotropheus fuelleborni_ (Chinyamwezi Island)
At this time all colour morphs of L. fuelleborni are considered one species - that may change.
OB fuellebornis occur at at least a few different locations in the lake: Katale Island, Mbenji Island, Chidunga Rocks, Minos Reef, Metangula and Likoma Island just to name six.
If they were acquired simply as 'Marmalade Cats' then no one can confirm the collection point, if indeed they are pure descendents from such a point. See below...



spotmonster said:


> 2. Theoretically if the orange one was female and the blueberry male, is it ok to breed them? Would I expect a color mix?


If you never call them anything but 'Tank raised Labeotropheus fuelleborni' I don't see how anyone could have a problem with you breeding them. It only becomes an issue if a specific collection point is assigned to them after the fact.
If your theory is correct then you could very well expect blue males and orange females once the fry age. Or not!
Based on pictures I have seen (NOT knowledge I posses) the Marmalade Cat males tend to be predominantly blue while the females are predominantly orange. But I can tell you that the Likoma Island females can be blue blotch, so there's no certainty there.



spotmonster said:


> 3, Do they cross breed easily? The reason I ask of course is because there are other species in the tank. I haven't witnessed any shaking goin on. But the blue cat chases the orange one all over the tank like a usual male would a female. And now the holding female stays in the corner.
> Very typical of a spawn from my experience.


All mouthbrooders - cross breeding is always a risk in any non-species tank.



spotmonster said:


> So what the chance of this fish holding hybrid eggs?


See above. But Occam's razor would suggest that the two Labeos bred.

Hope that helps,

kevin


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

> I've read things like most ob are females, only males are called marmalade cats,


These are both mostly true, but with some caveats (hence I understand the confusion). The majority of female L. Fuelleborni which are imported and sold in the states are OB, but not all are. It can depend on the particular collection point (as Ridley said). In the wild, in collection points with OB females, about 1% of males will also be OB. Thus, most OBs at these points are females.

An OB male is called a marmalade cat. However some vendors and hobbyists have started using the term marmalade cat for a strain of OB fuelleborni in which they are breeding marmalade cat males with OB females to get either 50% or 100% OB male offspring. And some people have started using the term to describe any OB fish. Very confusing.

My best guess is that you have 1 OB female and 1 OB 'marmalade cat' male (the 'blueberry' colored one). But it would be just about impossible to determine their actual collection point.


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## spotmonster (Nov 23, 2006)

I assume if I have hybrids here that the mbuna hybrid was most likely culprit. Don't know if its male or female. I'm getting rid of these 2 hybrids soon. I haven't had any action at all on the mbenji even amongst themselves. They are getting close to young breeding size though.

Anyway, guess I'll see what they look like. Maybe I'll separate these 2 into a breeding tank and see if it happens again. If they do breed they will make some very nice fry :dancing: I am a little worried about the female getting killed in a smaller tank though, these guys seem to have some attitude.

I wasn't given a location point when I purchased so they are definitely tank raised.


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## gmaschke (Aug 23, 2008)

I have the marmalade cats. My Dom. males are a light blue and sub dom males tend to be darker. Kinda the opposite affect of most dom.-subdom. fish. The females stay tan/orange blotched. Both are OB.


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## tfoster7189 (Feb 9, 2011)

I have 3 Labeotropheus fuelleborni in my 220 gal. All three are the orange ones. However, the dominany one has alot of black on it that is very prominant and it rules like it is a male. The other two are more of a solid color of orange and they seem to be a bit more submissive to the dominant one. So, are you saying that there are either (1) different color variations of the fuelleborni or (2) that the males are always blue. Can they be orange also?


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

tfoster7189 said:


> Can they be orange also?


Certainly. There are dozens of fuelli variants in the lake. Factor in line breeding and variant crossing and you have even more in the hobby:
http://www.malawi-dream.info/Labeotroph ... eborni.htm
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/r ... ?genus=104

kevin


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## spotmonster (Nov 23, 2006)

Well , I've been bed ridden since Thursday night with the flu and pneumonia, much fun I must tell you. Anyway I got back to checking on my fish last night and she spit, probably since it was her 1st spawn. Oh well. they will spawn again I hope.

Thanks for all the advise. I am now pretty sure I have a pair.


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