# Ick from the beginning...



## the_shedding_reptile (Sep 17, 2008)

Hi all,

I can't believe I'm posting here so soon, but...  
I started a new Malawi tank, after being away from the hobby for... too long.
I'm doing a 55 g Malawi peacock/hap all male. I bought this weekend the first 5 fish, as follows:
Aulonocara (Rubescens)	Ruby Red
Aulonocara sp.	Yellow Collar Mazinzi Reef
Aulonocara sp. "Stuartgranti Maleri"	Sunshine
Copadichromis mloto	
Placidochromis sp. Jalo	
(1 of each, juvenile males).
I noticed first on one, then on another fish, the first signs of ick (I think). Plus, one I saw flashing.
Apart from that, they're all very active, they eat without a problem. I'm not sure if I should take any measures yet.
What would you guys do? Start medication, just increase temperature, or just leave it as is, hoping the fish will fight it? I don't want to start stressing the little fish with chemicals and temperature differences.
My water param. are: pH 8.2, NH3 0, NO2- 0, NO3- 20 (roughly), KH 179, GH >215, temp. 26.5 C (80 F).

Thanks in advance.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

First you want to make sure it IS ich. You're looking for white spots that look like grains of salt. Flashing can indicate a number of things and so you should not conclude your fish have ich just because they flash.

Check out the article below for more infor, including treatment options, on ich. Increasing the frequency of partial water changes will help reduce the overall numgers of the parasite in the tank but will NOT get rid of them and once you have ich in the tank you must get rid of it.

Yes any treatment you do is going to add some level of stress to your fish but there's no avoiding that and while ich is rather easy to treat it can get out of hand and become fatal if you wait too long.

Check out the article and then get back to us. 

Robin


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## the_shedding_reptile (Sep 17, 2008)

Hi,

Thanks for your quick reply. I did see "grains of salt", very small on one fish, a bit bigger on another one. But just up to 5-6 per fish. I will get some medication and try that.
Yes, I read the article first. I just wanted some feedback.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Good luck with it and please post back if you have any additional questions or concerns. The great thing about ich is that as long as you get to it relatively soon there's lots of meds and treatments that will kill the creepy little bugs!

Robin


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## the_shedding_reptile (Sep 17, 2008)

OK, I went and bought API Super Ick Cure Liquid. I'm not very clear about how to do it.
I put the contents of the bottle in the tank (it says 5 ml/5 US gallon). Is says " Add one teaspoonful (5 ml) for every 5 U.S. gallons (19L) of aquarium water. Repeat dose after 48 hours. Wait another 48 hours, then change 25% of the water and add new activated carbon."
That means after 48 hours I have to put another dose, without changing water first? That means I double the dose for 2 days. Isn't that too much?
Anyway, keep your fingers crossed for me, please.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Because of the life cycle of ick it does take some time to do a complete treatment so the repeat dose sounds correct but I'd have to read the entire label.
I'm asuming that you removed the carbon from your filters before treating but left the rest of the media in the filter.

Perhaps someone who has used this product can comment?

If I have a moment I'll see if I can google the directions.

Robin


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## the_shedding_reptile (Sep 17, 2008)

Sorry, I should've put a link to the instructions. Here it is: http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/TechSheet.aspx?TechSheetID=31.
I did remove the carbon pad a week ago (on the Eheim canister instructions it mentioned to leave it only 2 weeks).
I sent a message to API to see what they say. I'll continue posting once I have news.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

I read the directions, sounds like you have it right.

If after you've finished the treatment you find your fish still have ick and /or you're uncomfortable medicating again consider the heat and salt method. I used it when I had clown loaches with ick and it worked perfectly. 
Just another option for you. 

Robin


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## the_shedding_reptile (Sep 17, 2008)

I continued the treatment until today, and the progress wasn't really there.
I did a water change yesterday (40%) and readded medication, but the fish seem to show more and more signs of stress. I did another water change (50%) today and put a carbon pad in the filter, to clear the medication.
One fish still shows white spots. All fish show signs of stress and spasmodic movements. I don't expect all, if any, to survive. Tomorrow I'll start raising temperature to 86 F and hope for the best.
So far, going back to the hobby has been a total disappointment.
At least I know one fish store that's getting one bad review.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Don't give up on those fish! Ick is not a serious problem unless you don't treat it. Just be 100% certain that it is in fact ich! The spots are like grains of salt. Sometimes two or more grains will clump together to form a larger spot but if you look closely you should be able to tell. If the white spots appear larger than salt grains AND they are fuzzy then we may be looking at something other than ick.

On the Ick treatment: 
86F is on the high side for fish that are already stressed and you don't really _need_ to bring it up that high. Bump it up to 82F and add salt: 2-3 tablespoons per five gallons. Dissolve the salt first and add it gradually over several hours time. You want to use plain sodium chloride--for inexpensive salt go to the grocery store and look for pickling or kosher salt. Or just pick up some aquarium salt at the fish store--a little more expensive, but--!

And speaking of the fish store: don't blame them for ick! Sure it's _possible_ that they knew the fish had ick but quite often the fish are not at the fish store long enough to show symptoms of the parasite. It's not until the fish is settled in a tank and the ick parasites have a chance to get established that you'll begin to see the tel-tale salt-like specs on them.

Sorry you got a rough start coming back to the fish hobby but hang in there. It's really quite common to have start up problems and even full on disasters but you've got a good size tank for these fish and you're right on top of this problem with ick so you should be okay. 

Robin


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## the_shedding_reptile (Sep 17, 2008)

I'm not thinking about giving up on them. But, as I expected, I had the first death today. One of the peacocks. What's weird is that yesterday all fish ate. The fish that died didn't have any external symptoms of ick. I believe the medication was too strong for them. Right now only one of the fish shows external signs of ick (grain salt spots on the body and dorsal fin). The rest are just not very happy.
Today they still look stressed out. I'll try to apply the method you described and see what that gives.
Thanks a lot for your help, Robin.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Sorry you lost the fish. If an illness is already well advanced then a medication can put the fish over the edge. Even the salt and heat treatment can do that. But there's no way of knowing that until you try the treatment and of course if you do nothing you'll likely lose the fish anyways, so. . .

The ick parasite can hide in their gills so perhaps the fish that died had them there. We also want to be on the look out for anything else that might be going on along with the ick. Aggression, water quality issues, and bacterial infections can cause a fish to die suddenly. 
Are you noticing any aggressive behavior? Any kind of patchy, scratchy, fuzzy growth on any of the fish? Are they all swimming around the tank or are some of them hovering at the top or hanging at the bottom? Are they breathing normally?

If you're uncomfortable with the medication then perhaps you should switch to the heat and salt, BUT, just in case there is some kind of bacterial infection going on perhaps you might start out with just the salt. Some bacterial infections spread/grow faster in warmer water.

I would do several large partial water changes with a good quality declorinator and siphon the gravel. Then add 3-4 TABLEspoons of salt per five gallons. Dissolve it first and add it gradually over several hours time. Try to do another water change in a couple of days and then re-add the salt. 
It takes about ten days for the salt to kill the parasite. If after a few days you don't see any signs of bacterial infection then you can go ahead and raise the temp to 82. This will speed up the ick life cycle and allow the salt to kill them faster.

As with any medication/treatment you want to monitor your fish closely for any signs that they are stressing because of the med/treatment.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Robin


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## the_shedding_reptile (Sep 17, 2008)

I already gave up on the medication. I put carbon pads in the filter and did a large water change to eliminate the meds as much as possible. I bought aquarium salt and I'm gradually adding it to the tank, but I put 2 spoons per 5 gallons.

Unfortunately 2 more fish died, one had ick symptoms. In all so far 3 fish died, and they were all small fish. That was one of my problems with the retailer, most juveniles were too young to be sold, IMHO. But the other alternative was fully grown adults.
Right now I'm left with two fish, but there are a bit bigger (I would say 2 inch?) and display no external symptom. Also I haven't noticed any flashing, but I'm not sure about that. Both ate well today.

I left the water temperature at 82F and will continue the salt treatment for about 10 days, to make sure it's all good. After that I will wait at least a month before buying any more fish. And this time, it's quarantine for everybody.
My only concern is that the ammonia released by the two fish left would be too small to keep the bacteria colonies alive and well. But we'll see...

Thanks again for all the help. This forum is amazing.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Really sorry you lost more fish. 
Keep a very close eye on the remaining two just in case there's something eles going on besides ick.
I don't know if the fish being small really has much to do with the problem. Before they died what did they do? Were they swimming around normally or what? You said they were all eating, correct?

Your filter will stay cycled and able to accomodate the number of fish you currently have. When you add more fish do so gradually--a couple at a time and the bio filter will adjust.

Bring the salt up to at least 3 tablespoons per five gallons. Ideally to kill ick without heat you want to have 4-5 tablespoons per five gallons.

Robin


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## the_shedding_reptile (Sep 17, 2008)

The fish that died seemed to be stressed after about 4 days of medication. Their fins were closer to the body (not disease-like, just stress-like), they would stay put in one place, either closer to the top, or at the bottom...but they would eat. One of the fish, the day before he died, was swimming tilted to one side a bit, but he was really infected. The rest, not visibly.

I'm putting 3 tbps/5gal right now. I'll have pickled fish in no time.  It just takes so long to add salted water bit by bit.

So far the two fish remaining look fine and are eating well. The Aulonocara looks like he's on amphetamines, but he was like that since I got him.


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## the_shedding_reptile (Sep 17, 2008)

Just a little update. I changed 50% of the water 2 days ago, to get rid of some of the salt. From the initial batch of fish, only one remains (a yellow collar peacock). I added another one since then (a neon blue peacock) and they're doing great. More additions are in quarantine.
Finally, I can say I don't have an ick problem anymore.
Robin, I should've followed your advice on salt treatment. It proved much more efficient and less stressful to the fish than the medication.
Thanks again for your help.


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