# Nanoluteus and Honduran red point



## cyprichromid (Nov 26, 2020)

Question on stocking a 50g 36x18x18 tank that is heavily aquascaped with rocks and wood (see attachment). According to this website, I could stock two pairs of cryptoheros nanoluteus in a 55 gallon. Could I do one pair of nanoluteus and another of cryptoheros honduran red point?


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## rolf.miles (Nov 25, 2020)

It seems that they have different habitats, even both are from Center America, it seems that the composition of the water and the kind of plants and rocks are a bit different. I give you some numbers:


 nanoluteus: pH 7 - 7.5, temperature 23 - 27 oC[/*]
 Cryptoheros: pH 5.4 - 8, temperature 22 - 31 oC[/*]

You can find more details about the habitat of each one on the following links:
https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/c ... anoluteus/
https://www.fischlexikon.eu/fischlexiko ... 0000002257


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## cyprichromid (Nov 26, 2020)

Thanks for the response. I'm not planning a strict biotope. Most of the plants are anchored on rock. It seems like there is enough overlap in water parameters to keep both if they are compatible


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

Both species are relatively mild mannered. I've kept and bred both, but not together. Might be an interesting experiment. The tank certainly seems big enough for a pair of each.


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## cyprichromid (Nov 26, 2020)

Thank you for the feedback. I've only ever kept apistogramma. Should I start with a couple of each and then rehome once I have pairs?


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

That would be a reasonable plan. Good Luck!


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## cyprichromid (Nov 26, 2020)

Thanks!


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## rolf.miles (Nov 25, 2020)

a pleasure to help , I have a solution for you, why not having 2 aquariums?, It does not need to be very big, as long as those fishes do not need a huge space, maybe a solution is having two. It will be a little more extra work and money, but I feel it won't be a huge difference. From my experience, it is a bit uncomfortable to find the right one, normally I go to the shop, but because of this covid thing, normally I like to take a look online, good luck and I hope my idea helps you!!


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## cyprichromid (Nov 26, 2020)

Thanks but I already have other plans for my second tank


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Hmmmmm.... I really hate to be a 'buzz kill' on this one. But, I REALLY don't like the idea of stocking with 2 pairs of just about ANY CA cichlids in a 3-foot long tank. Even in the (generally speaking) mild-mannered species you are considering - there''s just not enough space in there for those spawning cichlids.
I mean in a three foot long tank, a spawning pair of either one of those species is gonna put a serious 'beat down' on any other occupants of the tank. Seriously, when that little cloud of fry hatches out and starts moving around, the parents will freak out over anything that moves in there! 
MAYBE, with a four foot long 75/90G tank, this idea would work out. But even then, I'd have the quarantine/hospital tank set up and ready for placing thrashed or beaten fish from that spawning situation....


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

Auballagh said:


> Hmmmmm.... I really hate to be a 'buzz kill' on this one. But, I REALLY don't like the idea of stocking with 2 pairs of just about ANY CA cichlids in a 3-foot long tank. Even in the (generally speaking) mild-mannered species you are considering - there''s just not enough space in there for those spawning cichlids.
> I mean in a three foot long tank, a spawning pair of either one of those species is gonna put a serious 'beat down' on any other occupants of the tank. Seriously, when that little cloud of fry hatches out and starts moving around, the parents will freak out over anything that moves in there!
> MAYBE, with a four foot long 75/90G tank, this idea would work out. But even then, I'd have the quarantine/hospital tank set up and ready for placing thrashed or beaten fish from that spawning situation....


I'll bet you've never kept either of the species in question. I've bred both, multiple times, multiple pairs. Neither one was ever as aggressive as most Cichlids in general. In fact, the _nanoluteus _always seemed more willing to spawn in a small tank with others of its kind present. The biggest tank I ever kept them in was a 15. One pair spawned in a 10, where I was holding them until another tank opened up. Female couldn't wait, laid eggs, and the pair raised them with three others in that 10! No fish ever got beat up in that tank, because these little fish are just not hyper aggro like most _Amatitlania_.

I've bred _Herotilapia _in a 20 gallon community tank. While they were certainly defensive about their fry, they did not try to establish a large territory, and no other fish were hurt. I was told that they form large creches of many pairs in the wild, and spawn in close proximity to one another. So it is in their nature to tolerate other fish close to their territory. There is an advantage to having young from many pairs schooling together, as it gives any one group of fry a better chance of having survivors. Some species of Cichlids have figured this out, and use the strategy to their advantage.

Four and a half square feet is a lot of space for theses two species. I've had a trio of _sajica _T-bars in the same size tank, and the male kept a fourth fish hiding behind a slate all the time. I wouldn't even consider that tank big enough for a pair of Firemouths. But the two species under consideration are small and actually quite gentle for Cichlids. I repeat my endorsement of giving it a try, as I believe it will work.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Always glad to hear from someone with personal experience! Perhaps you have had the opportunity to raise up some of the offspring from fish I collected in Honduras, back in 2006 with Eddie Martin, Jeff Rapps and a few other interesting fellows? That was on one of Eddie's early collecting expeditions with Rusty Wessell.
Good times!
And yes, I suppose it's possible that the wild caught and F1 fish I raised up and sold, might have been a bit more aggressive/territorial when spawning than later generations of tank-bred specimens have since become..... 
So, as they say, _*"you pays your money - you takes your chances"*_. And we all know that cichlid behavior can sometimes be quite unpredictable. So, best of luck! And, the forum advice I offered up, was given to merely inform. Not to denigrate or personally challenge. :thumb:


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## cyprichromid (Nov 26, 2020)

Always good to hear competing view points. Both of you sound quite knowledgeable and I appreciate your input. I'm definitely not a fan of overstocking tanks - I like to watch the tanks and relax and the last thing I want to see is a blood bath. The tank does have plenty of barriers and hiding spots/caves. I have yet to purchase the fish so I will give it some more thought. Thanks again


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Actually, we're not exactly disagreeing.
Because, it's not really the A. nanoluteus giving me pause in this case... And, I believe stocking with two pairs of A. nanoluteus might be a little dicey, but would have a good chance of success in your 3 foot long tank. No, it's stocking with that HRP pair in this tank that has me doubtful. My spawning HRPs in 'fry protective mode', would have just absolutely crushed an A. nanoluteus pair, kept in that 3 foot long tank with them.
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My own dedicated HRP breeding pairs were kept in 33G long tanks, with a 6 to 8 member 'shoal' of either Black Widow Tetras or Rainbow fish. The Tetras and Rainbows provided handy targets for the male HRP, to vent aggression on (beat up Tetras and Rainbows were quarantined and recycled back into action when healthy again...). 
And, until I figured out how to better use those 'target' fish in breeder assist mode, I lost 2 WC HRP females to male aggression in those four foot long, 33 gallon tanks. There's many reasons after all, they still haven't decided that the HRP isn't just a locality variant of the Convict cichlid.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

I would agree that this probably wouldn't work with two wild caught pairs of fish. Mine were captive bred with both these species. My HRP were an unknown number of generations from wild. They tended to be smaller than others I've seen, despite being in a 125 gallon tank. I've worked with both wild stock and multi-generation tank raised of several species. Wild fish are almost always considerably more violent. Perhaps that caveat should have been included sooner.

One possible idea would be to start with very young breeders, as both these species are precocious and will start reproducing at a very small size. They would then have the time to adapt to the presence of the other species before their breeding territory reaches maximum.

I would also like to apologize for my brief run of senility, as I started talking about _Herotilapia_ instead of HRP.


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## cyprichromid (Nov 26, 2020)

This is a lot of great information. I'm experienced with planted tanks but just not cichlids so I apologize if these are silly questions - would removal of the fry mitigate some of the aggression?


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Well.... yes.
But, that action will also lead you down different roads to possible problems. For one, it's easy to underestimate just how fecund CA cichlids are. In those streams and rivers they come from, they produce an incredible amount of fry. And unfortunately (fortunately?) just about ALL baby cichlids are eaten. The predation is just relentless, from huge shoals of Astyanx fasciatus 'mexicana' tetras and predatory live-bearers, to even other/larger cichlids. Reaching adult size for these fish is quite a feat!
So yes, pulling the fry out will temporarily stop fry-protecting aggression. But almost guaranteed, your pair(s) of CA cichlids WILL spawn almost immediately again. And again. And again.... 
So, the time when the female is in 'fry-protective mode', actually provides just a little bit of recovery time for her, as the male does most of the heavy duty, perimeter patrolling and attacks on other fish. So, if you push the pair into faster spawning cycles? There is the very real risk you will just wind up wearing your poor female out.
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I would just stock with 6 to 8 baby sized A. nanoluteus, and wait for pairing to begin. Keep an eye on things. Then, when you have another pair emerge in the tank? Be ready to pull the other, non-paired A. nanoluteus out, if they are getting shredded by both spawning pairs in there. But, if aggression doesn't reach unmanageable levels in the tank, then leave well enough alone and enjoy the show! 8)


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## cyprichromid (Nov 26, 2020)

Auballagh said:


> Well.... yes.
> But, that action will also lead you down different roads to possible problems. For one, it's easy to underestimate just how fecund CA cichlids are. In those streams and rivers they come from, they produce an incredible amount of fry. And unfortunately (fortunately?) just about ALL baby cichlids are eaten. The predation is just relentless, from huge shoals of Astyanx fasciatus 'mexicana' tetras and predatory live-bearers, to even other/larger cichlids. Reaching adult size for these fish is quite a feat!
> So yes, pulling the fry out will temporarily stop fry-protecting aggression. But almost guaranteed, your pair(s) of CA cichlids WILL spawn almost immediately again. And again. And again....
> So, the time when the female is in 'fry-protective mode', actually provides just a little bit of recovery time for her, as the male does most of the heavy duty, perimeter patrolling and attacks on other fish. So, if you push the pair into faster spawning cycles? There is the very real risk you will just wind up wearing your poor female out.
> ...


This is good advice. Unfortunately I have unexpected problems. My chocolate gourami pair that I planned to rehome appear to have spawned and the female looks like she is carrying eggs in her.mouth. Dont know if I should move them now.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Wow, Chocolate Gourami's?!!
Those are really cool fish. And well, you must naturally have some pretty soft water where you live? The higher PH/hard water we enjoy here in Virginia Beach, has never impressed any lower ph-loving fish species I've kept much, And no, you should definitely wait and see what those crazy kids of yours in that tank have gotten themselves into, before doing anything. 
Chocolate Gourami babies are definitely worth waiting for!


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## cyprichromid (Nov 26, 2020)

Thats the bizarre thing. I have high pH hard water. Have had these fish for over a year and nothing but then I rescaped the tank and boom. Still too soon to say I will have any success but the female has definitely been hiding.


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## cyprichromid (Nov 26, 2020)

Soooo - does anyone know where I can get nanoluteus? It was in stock at wetspot when I posted but not any longer. Recommendations appreciated. Thanks


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

PM sent.


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## csriram45 (Jul 18, 2006)

so I was looking to raise some nanos and breed them and came across this old thread. It appears finding them is hard. I live in the SF Bay area. Does anyone know where I can get some nanos to raise them? If so PM me. Thx


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## Azedenkae (Apr 19, 2012)

csriram45 said:


> so I was looking to raise some nanos and breed them and came across this old thread. It appears finding them is hard. I live in the SF Bay area. Does anyone know where I can get some nanos to raise them? If so PM me. Thx


<vendor name removed>


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## Aussieman57 (Dec 18, 2021)

cyprichromid said:


> Soooo - does anyone know where I can get nanoluteus? It was in stock at wetspot when I posted but not any longer. Recommendations appreciated. Thanks


PM sent.


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## csriram45 (Jul 18, 2006)

Thank you! SMH on how I missed the first place any cichlid enthusiast will look for.


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