# Is this Columnaris? (pics) Panicing about my tank



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Again Tank data:

75G
Metriclima dolphin -6 (now 5)
Yellow lab 4
Acei 6
bristlenose pleco -2
(all juvies)

Acei and lab are a few weeks in the tank. Metriclima dolphin arrived last friday (1 week ago) pleacos were added friday night (super tiny guys)

Tank has been set up about a month - cycled for about 2.5 -3 weeks.
Amonia -0
Nitrite -0
Nitrate 20ish
KH 14-15
GH 10-11
Temp - about 80.

I do weekly water changes. Water is from a well.

Yesterday morning all fish seemed fine. yesterday afternoon I noticed one of the metriclima at the bottom of the tank, and in distress. Upon examination he appeared to have a white hole in his side. I rushed to walmart and got a 10G tank. I put him in the 10g tank in his own aquarium water. I dosed melafix. I also did two salt water bath dips as per the article on columnaris. By dawn he was gone. 


















In the main tank (75g) *** so far done a 50% water change, dosed 15 tablespoons of aquarium salt and am attempting to lower the temperature. No other fish are showing signs of distress, yet. I will fast them as well? Im TERRIFIED now and fear is setting in pretty good. Panic too. I keep logs, count fish 3 times a day or more, look at them closely... I loved this new hobby up until last night. Suddenly I feel like I am starting to hate it. this fish has gone through a painful death caused by me and it makes me angry as ****.

What else should I do for the fish? Am I missing signs of this disease? Is it something else?

Should I dose the tank with antibiotics? I am on information overload right now becasue I was up till 3 am researching this, and am terrfied Im going to lose my tank. The wife would be devistated.

I have a brand new UV sterilizer that I haevnt hooked up yet. Should I install this ASAP?

Please, anyone, help.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Columnaris does cause chunks of flesh to fall away like that and gray patches on the side are typical. It the spot fuzzy or does it look a little shredded or did it before the chunk fell off? At this point, I'd go with columnaris.

Columnaris is a serious, fast-acting disease and you are likely to lose some fish. But hang in there and don't let some stupid disease chase you out of the hobby. You did not cause this. Your fish are barely out of quarantine and likely the problem was triggered before you even got them.

I'd do a water change to do the following:
- remove the aquarium salt...unless it is essential to keep the pH or KH stable
- remove the melafix
- get your nitrates closer to 10ppm

No need for the UV sterilizer.

GTZ recommends kanamycin and furan-2 treated simultaneously. I can usually not get these meds locally, so consider ordering overnight mail. Doxycycline is an alternative. Hopefully GTZ will chime in soon.

My one fish with columnaris ate and swam around as usual...the patches were the only symptom until I euthanized him when they patches kept coming back after 6 rounds of treatment with various meds. His case was caused by a severe beating...from which he recovered, only to develop columnaris.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

The fish in the 10G quarrantine was treated with melafix. Not the 75.

That tank is now empty and the sick fish has passed and is buried in the garden. Pics are post-mortem

The 75 currently has 15 tablesppons of aquarium salt added. This was after I did a 50% wc. IS the salt bad? I read eveywhere that salt helps control this bacteria.

I'll check the nitrates when I get back this morning from town. I havent measured them since I did the 50% WC.

I already have the UV sterilizer I got it free (its an aqua UV 15w). This wont help by installing it?

The spot didnt look fzzy just like a wound. It came out of nowhere.

I will try and get the meds in town today.

FYI the big white spot wasnt noticible last night, but was this AM when I woke up. We have a care alot and a local pet (not fish) store here. Also a petsmart. The carealot has a nice fish section I'll try and find the meds there. How long should I dose them?

Should I do more WC's? It stresses the fish out when I do it. It seems EVERYTHING stresses them out. I hear this is always in the water and stress causes it to take hold.

As of this morning I see no signs of this in other fish. But I dont recall seeing it in this one either.

Probelem is these Metriclima (large demosani) are afraid of their own shadow and spend 85% of the day in the rocks. Beautiful fish but for an Mbuna theyre awful skittish. The other fish are not pushing them around either.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

As far as I am concerned there is never a need for a UV sterilizer and I don't see how it would help with this. It does help if you have an algae bloom and are impatient about getting rid of it, and it does help with one part of the ich life cycle. This is a different situation.

I have seen articles that people have had success with salt-dips but that is different than having salt in the aquarium all the time. I don't think you want to do salt and meds...I'd go with the antibiotics to treat this bacterial disease. When I see recommendations, I see antibiotics as a first choice and salt dips as a last resort. Your choice.

It should not stress your fish to do a water change. You don't have to vacuum...just stick the siphon under the surface. They should barely notice. And clean water is usually a welcome change to the fish, they appear to frolic.

I don't think this is a stress-related disease caused by minor stressors like a water change. As mentioned, my fish was beaten so badly that he was upside down for several days...I just did not have the heart to euthanize while he was still trying. Then he appeared to have a 100% complete recovery with scale regrowth any everything, only to come down later with this secondary infection.

Maybe something happened at the vendor or during one or more rounds of shipping.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Theres a possibility this could effect just one fish then? Im on my way to get what meds i can locally now.

I did a 50% wc last night. Should i do more of these?

Thanks for your help.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Also maybe of note. This fish was one of six i got from a cichlid vendor. They werw shipped overnight ground last Thursday. Maybe the journey weakened it?


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

First off, relax. I know how it is to panic over sick fish. It will take some time to get them better.

Keep up the 50% WC every other day. The salt will help but you do not want it in the tank for more than a week, then it will start to hurt the fish. If it is columnaris you will need antiobiotics. Furan-2 is a good choice to stat with and easier to get than kanamycin. Melaflix is unnecessary until the bacteria is controlled, then it can be used to help the fish heal up.

Follow the dosing instruction on the package and make a full treatment. I would only do 10-20% WC while treating with meds.

The UV sterlizer would help out with protozoan build up in the tank, you can hook it up and use it. Just remember that the bulbs are effective for 6-12 months. They must be changed after that.

The dead fish looks to have columnaris, it can be common among wholesalers and shippers. The fish may have been fighting it off until it was shipped and became stressed. Then the bacteria moved in and attacked. The other fish probably have it but have been fighting it off. The WC will keep the fish feeling good and the bacteria count down. Once you treat with meds it should clear up.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Borsig said:


> Theres a possibility this could effect just one fish then?


It's very contagious. It only affected one fish for me because he was already in the hospital tank when the beating occurred. Two male demasoni awaiting a trip to the LFS and jumping a divider during the day while I was at work.

Only the loser ended up with columnaris.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

I just got some kanaplex and furan 2 from care a lot pets in town. I have full regimens of each at hand.

Im ready to dose both. Will follow water change procedure on meds.

No other fish showing signs yet..... fish dealer i got them from says no illness in his tank and he has had no losses.

Wife mentioned she noticed biggest metriaclima chasing another around. We arent sure if this fish was the one being chased.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Looks like you're in good hands here. The salt level is fine to combine with the meds. Let your temps drop to ~78 and of course remove any chemical filtration.
Both meds are bio safe, but I still recommend testing water parameters daily while medicating.
Maintain water salinity during water changes. When your treatment schedule is completed, perform small, multiple water changes to slowly (over 6-12 hours) lower the salinity back to normal. Run some carbon for ~24 hours.
Hopefully this will be the last you see of columnaris.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks for the help. All of you.

I just dosed 7 packets of Furan 2 ( I may dose 1 more as I have a 75g with a 10g sump that has about 3-4 active gallons in it - packets are 10g per) and 15 measures (1 per 5g per instructions) of Seachem kanaplex.

I just cheked Nitrates - nitrates are 5-10ppm.

Salt goes away with water I assume?

I will follow dosing and wc instructions on the meds until they are fully dosed (I think its 3 doses per for a full course)

Trying to let temps drop. I think my HO t5 lights are keeping it up. Heater is set back to 75deg. I turned the light off. Only other thing that could be adding heat is the pump in the sump. Ambient in house is 70F.

I never, erver want to see a fish die like that again. Please let the rest of my fish be safe from this....


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Borsig said:


> Salt goes away with water I assume?


I'm not sure what you're asking here.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

When you do a water change - the salinity goes down


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Ah. Yes. If you want to continue with the salt, keep the levels the same when performing wc's. Try to avoid any sudden salinity swings.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Well. This morning I have very green water and no visible signs of sick fish. I dont doubt the bacteria is still in there.

I hope these meds dont kill the beneficial bacteria in my sump. Im very worried about that now too. Ill have to test when i get home this afternoon


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Well. This morning I have very green water and no visible signs of sick fish. I dont doubt the bacteria is still in there.

I hope these meds dont kill the beneficial bacteria in my sump. Im very worried about that now too. Ill have to test when i get home this afternoon


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The UV sterilizer will help with the green water.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> The UV sterilizer will help with the green water.


I am installing it after I am done dosing meds. The kaniplex says to turn off uv and remove charcoal......

Bet though, when the med dosing is done, that Uv is going on.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Update -

Final (4th) dose of furan was last night. Final dose of Kanaplex should be tonight.

Other than green water from meds, the fish look healthy. I am still very nervous but now optomistic. So far i don't see any more visible signs. One Acei seems lighter in color than normal. All fish seem drab, thats probably the lighting and green water / meds. 
Will dose final kanaplex tomorrow, then do water changes to get the salinity back down to normal Saturday, run some charcoal to clean the green, and install my UV.

I hope this is the last I see of it.

Does this sound like a solid approach?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Sounds great!!!

One last thing...the patches came back on my fish a couple of days after treatment stopped. So keep watch in case you have to restart meds but hope you are in the clear.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Understood.

Luckily, the other never had the patches or sores. Not that i saw anyway. I was running meds as a precaution


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Ammonia is up today. .25 PPM easily.

Im worried *** started to destory my bio filter.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

Maybe, keep up with WC now that dosing is done and use some prime or other ammo lock to try and keep ammo down.

you can do 50% a day WC. If you have another tank add some of the filter media to the sick tank to help get back the bacteria.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Yeah 50% wc starts today.

The ammonia is up to .25

Any higher and Im getting another bottle of safestart. I dont want to lock the ammo up as that might slow bio filter regen.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

You would have to overdose to slow the cycling process. Detoxified ammonia is still available for the bacteria to process, it isn't removed.
If you have chloramine in your tap water, it's possible that that's where your ammonia reading is coming from. Detoxify some tap water and try an ammonia test.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

tap water has always been 0.

Its a well.

it looks to be .25 to .50

Im kinda worried.

I have prime and am using it, but worried.

Doing another 50% WC... God this is ... ugh


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

The bacteria will bounce back fairly quickly. Continue to detoxify with Prime every 24-36 hours and perform water changes if required.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

GTZ Thank you.

You guys have been really helpful, and I wish I could quid pro quo with more. It was .25 after another 50% WC last night. *** also turned OFF the UV for now. Water is clear and carbon is working.

Seriously, you guys are the best. I feel like I have nothing to offer here and I only take :/

Anyone have a broken gun? LOL. I'm an armorer, and thats about the only thing I'm qualified to give advice about


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Still .25 % today. Will do another 50% wc and prime tomorrow.

It doesnt seem to be making nitrate. Nitrate isnt increasing. That worries me. But I geuss as long as the ammonia doesnt spike its ok


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

With all the water changes you are probably keeping the nitrate level.


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## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Good point - hadnt thought of that....


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