# culling matters



## Mr.Firemouth (May 20, 2007)

Hi guys!

I line breed FM's and many people ask how do I know which ones to keep.
Today I had some time to take some pics of the 2 fish I culled out of about 40! These are the only 2 keepers!
The other fish will have great colors when they mature but I assure these 2 will be much better!!!

Here are the pics...
*random shots of the group...7th generation...*

























Here is the keepers...
*note the color intensity and black markings on fins compared to group shots*

























Pics don't do them justice as my camera is limited compared to DSLR shots.
I do think it is obvious though how these 2 fish stand out from the crowd.
Did you notice the fins are marked differently? Or that the belly/throats are colored much more?
I would like to mention that all these fish shown are from one brood/hatching.
They are also all the same size(within 1/2 cm)
These fish also were spooked by me and the camera. If I was able to take tight shots 20 minutes from now they would have darker colors yet!

Culling like this is the only way to isolate the strongest fish that color up the best. I can't wait for their displays this winter as these fish are just under 1" TL.

Don't forget to join the ACA


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## mick74 (Mar 19, 2008)

thay look like a nice fish.


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

You can definitely see how those two are the cream of the crop! 8)

I just wanna throw some clarification out there on something you said about culling...


Mr.Firemouth said:


> 2 fish I culled out of about 40! These are the only 2 keepers!


Admittedly, when I first read this I thought you had it backwards.
In other words, I always thought the act of 'culling' something meant that the 'something' in question was always the thing being disposed of. BUT, I was surprised to discover that the definitions I looked up allow the verb 'cull' to be used _both_ ways! That is to say, "I culled xyz fish" can refer to xyz being kept, and "I culled xyz fish" can also refer to xyz being disposed of.

Sorry if I'm confusing things more here, but I just wanted to elaborate on this in case anyone besides myself wasn't aware that the fish being 'culled' can refer to the ones being kept just as equally as it can refer to the ones being disposed of. Hope that makes some sense.

Maybe it's too early in the morning for me to be posting?! :?  
BV


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## Mr.Firemouth (May 20, 2007)

Thanks BV!

Yeah, if you look at the group shots you can see the caudal and ventral fins are rimmed in dark blue, but the 2 culls were rimmed in black! These fish will be amazingly colorful when they mature to breeding age!


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

Just curious...
How many different pairs are a part of your breeding program, and how many tanks do you have for them? I'm assuming each pair gets their own tank, correct? What size of tanks do you typically use for this purpose? Also, how many fry tanks would you typically have going at once, and what size of tanks are typically used for this purpose?

I'm just trying to get an idea of what all is required for a project of this magnitude.
In essence, I am trying to gather up an idea of just how many tanks (and what sizes of tanks) someone will need to be aiming for in order to carry out a linebreeding program similar in magnitude to what you have been undertaking over the past years...

I'm sure it's probably difficult to throw out exact figures for this, especially when you've been working at it for a while and have probably been expanding things and so forth. But a rough idea of what one needs to embark on such a journey would be nice to know. I don't mean to put you on the spot or anything, lol. :wink:



Mr.Firemouth said:


> the caudal and ventral fins are rimmed in dark blue, but the 2 culls were rimmed in black!


Thank you for pointing this out---I don't know that I would have caught this if you hadn't mentioned it. I guess I'm so accustomed to seeing the fins lined with blue that I never thought to look for anything else. But sure enough, the black edging on those fins is quite clear when you look back at the pics! Do you have any adults with this black trimming along the edge of the fins, or is this a trait which is just now being exhibited in your breeding program for the first time?

BV


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## Mr.Firemouth (May 20, 2007)

> Just curious...
> How many different pairs are a part of your breeding program, and how many tanks do you have for them? I'm assuming each pair gets their own tank, correct? What size of tanks do you typically use for this purpose? Also, how many fry tanks would you typically have going at once, and what size of tanks are typically used for this purpose?


I usually have 4-5 pairs that I work with. I am on my 7th generation of linebred FM's that took 9 years to get to.
Pairs are kept in a 180g and I strip fry to 15g fry tanks.
I run 2-3 fry tanks, and I have a 55g growout.
This is a pic of the rack I used to use...











> I'm just trying to get an idea of what all is required for a project of this magnitude.
> In essence, I am trying to gather up an idea of just how many tanks (and what sizes of tanks) someone will need to be aiming for in order to carry out a linebreeding program similar in magnitude to what you have been undertaking over the past years...


I would say you need at least 2-55g, 4-15g, and maybe 1-150+gallon tank for display, long term housing.



> I'm sure it's probably difficult to throw out exact figures for this, especially when you've been working at it for a while and have probably been expanding things and so forth. But a rough idea of what one needs to embark on such a journey would be nice to know. I don't mean to put you on the spot or anything, lol.


I think if you bought tanks and filters used you could put a system together for less than $600 USD.



> Do you have any adults with this black trimming along the edge of the fins, or is this a trait which is just now being exhibited in your breeding program for the first time?


I had the black traits begin to show at the 4th generation, however only a few of the fish get this trait. I have had beautifully colored adults with average/shorter fins that I eliminated also. A fish may get to be a year and a half old when you decide it is not growing into a show quality fish. I sold my show fish to a guy in Hawaii 2 years ago but here is a pic...


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

Beautiful fish! :thumb: 
Thank you for elaborating on your system and all of the questions I brought up.

BV


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## cage623 (Feb 2, 2008)

I must say that this is a very interesting post. I think that the pics really give a good visual to how much work must go into this.

BV, thanks for clearing up the use of "cull." I also always thought of it as just the form of "to get rid of those that were undesirable or unwanted."

As a final thought Mr. Firemouth, your name really is fitting! Anything else you have to say on this would be great! Thanks for sharing this.


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## Mr.Firemouth (May 20, 2007)

Thanks guys, here is more on the topic...
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=


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## Frameshift (Sep 12, 2003)

What do you do with the culls (meaning the 38 that didn't make the cut). Food? LFS?


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