# New 55 gallon African Setup



## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

Dimidiochromis compriceps, venustus cichlid, yellow lab, acei cichlid, orangle blotch zebra, red zebra, melanochromjs auratus, and what is some sort of melanochromis species(sold as johanni, but dizplays horizontal barring only), a bumblebee cichlid crabro, and a kenyi cichlid, all these fish are over 5 inches and under 7 inches and have spent from fry to 1 year in a 90 gallon. my question is this; i currently have two oscars growing very large in desperate need of a bigger home. is there any way that list above would be ok in a 55 gallon so i could move my oscars to the 90 gallon? i have more than enough filtration so no an issue, while they dont have a lot of space in a 90 they have enough to establish territories. i guess im thinking in would give them less room to fight, but sometimes thats less room to run as well. please hurry as this will be done today depending on sanswer, thanks


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

I would not attempt to put those fish in a 55 gallon tank. A 90 is really too small for a few of the fish you have - D. compriceps will push 11" and the venustus will get close. They really need a 6' aquarium. Crabro are also large. Kenyi, Crabro, and Auratus are all extremely aggressive. Is this an all male tank?

The Oscars will definitely need more than a 55 as well.


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

clear some confusion. i want to put the oscars in the 90. yes i know compriceps and venustus get large and will have to be rehomed, no problem there. no its not an all male tank, its just whatever the lfs had to offer, and for the year theyve been together theyve done remarakably well. what i want to do is put the orange blotch zebra, the red zebra, the acei, the crabro, yellow lab, auratus, johanni, and kenyi in a very well planned 55 gal.


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

im assuming an all male tank is used to keep agression down, if i had to make a guess id say 99% of the 10 are males, i know the crabro is a female as its around 6 inches and still yellow with black barring, i beieleve male crabro are black? perhaps someone will clarify, but if they are not all males then i dont hold to much in the "all male tank" these guys have done so well i seriously think that most "do's and dont's" should be followed with a "but its probably possible if you want to"


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

Do you know the gender of each fish? Dimorphism will help identify a couple of them, but you should vent to be positive. If you drop the compressiceps and venustus you might be able to make it work depending on how many males you are going to have fighting it out vs. females there are to chase around.


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

kdawg2293 said:


> "but its probably possible if you want to"


This doesn't always work out long term, even if it does seem to have potential in the beginning. All male just means no females to fight over, not necessarily lower aggression. You should generally either stock harems or all male with these fish. Stocking a 90 is also a lot more lenient than stocking a 55.


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

Perhaps only temporarily, im really in the market for a tank upwards of 120 gal, but they are kinda hard to come by at a reasonable price around here, i just thought it might buy me some time, if the africans fit in the 55, im not sure most of them can get much bigger so that would help me out, the oscars are juvinile so theyre ok at the moment but i really want to give them the necessary space, until thier permanent tank is found, no less than 120 im hoping.


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

Also thought; will all males chase any females? Or do they somehow know which ones are cross breedable? Therefore chasing a different type, i only have two zebras otherwise thier all different. I had hopes in the beginning of making it work by just not having two of anything; that was long ago


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

All mouthbrooders can crossbreed.


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

dang, kinda surprised i havent seen any cross babies yet, but i suppose i need to find out what is what, good place to go to learn more info on venting?


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

kdawg2293 said:


> i suppose i need to find out what is what, good place to go to learn more info on venting?


Check out this article from the Library: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gender.php 

Venting is pretty easy, especially with larger fish. I recently picked up some fish a guy was giving away, and he somehow had chosen all female fish when he purchased the tank. He had no intentions of doing so, but his mix and match had worked for over two years without much trouble, probably because he didn't have any males (and reasonable fish personalities of course). Color can fool you as well. The only real way to tell is to vent.


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

After some research it seems *** got them about 90% down. Mostly males (miraculously) the Red/Orange Zebra, the Kenyi, the Johanni, and the Auratus are 100% males. Im 90% sure that the acei and the yellow lab are males as well. And im 100% positive the crabro and the orange blotch zebra is a female. What to do next :$ ...


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

You could post some pics of your venting attempts to verify the lab and acei. Dropping the confirmed females and adding a few extra males would probably be your best bet. Stick with the more aggressive species and avoid lookalikes. Maybe you can get some store credit somewhere and find 3-4 larger males to purchase? An all male mbuna tank is legitimate if you can get the stock to agree.


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

Would i need 3-4 more if i tried the 55? The legitimacy of an all male tank is exciting. Unfortunatly when i got them i just bought one of everything they had and it seems i got some of the meanest types out there. Say the crabro and the OB are the only females, if i remove them can the other 6 fit in the 55? Acei, kenyi,lab,aurautus,johanni,red zebra. Would i need more in a 55? It would be awfully hard to find any big enough around here, w.o months of growing them out in a seperate tank. Ehile mine are amazingly nice to eachother, they do not tolerate smaller fish/anything they didnt grow up with.


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

Also on a side note, just curious, if i put the male zebra in a smaller tank with ob female would they breed? Or would i need more females...always wanted a batch of baby cichlids. On a second sidenote, maybe after i get the 90 back from the oscars could i do a male to female ratio tank in the 90? Or would the auratus and such simply be to violent? Thus perhaps i should plan a 90 gallon "male only tank" ...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would go with 8 minimum in an all-male 55G. Unusual that adult fish do not tolerate smaller fish...usually they are not viewed as competitors and are ignored.

To breed zebras, you want a 48" tank and 1m:4f of each species.

For auratus you could try 1m:7f in the 90G but some find them too violent anyway.


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

I was wondering if they all could have a few females once they are back in the 90day but if the auratus party alone is too much i doubt id try that


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

I beileve i have 6 males currently but im worried the kenyi and the lab will be too close alike in a 55, thoughts? Its gonna be tough finding 2-3 large enough with a like enough temperament. I have a little time but not much, oscars and africans grow very rapidly apparently. I have grow out tanks available, but at 1" the local fish store moves as many juveniles as possible at any size they can get. So itd be a lengthy grow out. They have minimal choices of minimum quality specimens, but its the lfs, walmart(which i have purchased a select few from) or a 200smoke mile drive to a reputible cichlid store :/


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd say the lab and male kenyi are too much alike. You don't want kenyi in a 55G anyway. Order online to get the selection you want. I rarely buy fish in person.


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## aicardi (Sep 15, 2012)

jcabage said:


> You could post some pics of your venting attempts


My venting. Not Lab or Acei, but I have both and venting is all the same. Some are more difficult than others.
http://penmail.us/newfish


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

Remember im hoping to have the 90 back for them soon


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think I lost track of the question. Your goal within a month is to have a 90G with mixed genders?

If yes, choose 4 species (not auratus, kenyi, bumblebee, etc.) and stock 1m:4f. So for example, yellow labs, one of the zebras, acei and the melanochromis (maybe maingano). Stock the "maybe maingano" 1m:7f.


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

Im switching two oscars to the 90 gal, and hoping i can get the male africans into a 55. Temporarily, i was hoping that once the africans are returned to the 90 i could add some females for each of the various males, but if the types are too angry it may become a male only 90. Im sad that i gotta give up my ob zebra and bumblebee. And i gotta find a couple more suitable large males to fill out the 55. The lfs isnt really decent enough that id "give" them my fish, they dont offer credit or trades, and im not sure i want two more tanks for the femsale zebra/crabro. Unless they could be together but imo thatd be a little boring with just rhe two of them. Im open to any and all ideas or combinations/rearangels.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

So plan the mixed gender 90G and back up from there. You could do OB zebra and bumblebee in a 90G stocked like 1m:7f of each. Which are your favorite?

The problem will be keeping them in a 55G in the meantime, but for 2 fish you could use a divider in the 55G.


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

Something else you might consider is the stock in general, especially if you are going to breed. Did the fish you purchased originally come from a reputable source? If not, you might want to consider dropping the females (or any fish that you plan to breed) and purchasing a new stock entirely. You could of course keep those females and not save their fry, but why not just have a good solid breeding group? It's no fun to get rid of fish you've raised, but it will be worth it when you are able to confidently breed great fish. Shoot for fish sold under an entire scientific name. I know DJ normally recommends ordering online. Sometimes it's tough to find quality fish locally.


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

Not really sporting the cash atm to purchase alot/all new stock, lfs sells africans for 15$ a piece at 1", i raised these guys for over a year now, i gotta save as many as i can. I dont necessarily want to breed anything. Just thought itd be cool. Male only 55, and in the future ill just have to look to fill out the 90 with what *** had and a few more. So i guess suggestions for the future 90 that can go with the list above^ thanks


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## kdawg2293 (Sep 3, 2012)

Transfered all the males into the 55, cannot beileve how much calmer these fish are with the two females gone. Btw, will they chase a female of any type? Even if there is not a male of that type present in the tank? Got a spare OB, and crabro to find homes for now  sad to see them go. They do not get along in a tank together either, considered keeping both but not at a tank apiece.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes, any female mbuna would be fair game.


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

Glad to hear it worked out! =D> Good choice with dropping the two females


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