# Multiple filters necessary?



## 2Malamutes (Apr 8, 2014)

New to Cichlids, setting up a 120 gallon (48"x24"x24") new tank, CaribSea Ivory Coast sand bottom, holey rock and petrified wood, 2 Jager 300W heaters (we keep our house pretty cold in the winter), all male hap/peacock tank, early inhabitants after fishless cycle will be 5 current guys between 2" and 5", I'll probably add another similar group as quickly as possible since they are coming from a much smaller tank, so adding in a new group along with the established group will hopefully be a good decision? I also will have about 10 anubias nana that are mounted on small pieces of driftwood, moving them from the smaller tank, seems like most people with those and haps/peacocks report no problems so I'm going to give it a try. In researching here I saw what seems to be a majority of people use multiple filters, and I don't know if this is a result of using filters off of smaller tanks and supplementing them in place of a larger filter purchase, or if there are advantages to multiple, often what seem to be smaller, filters? I will be using an FX6, current plan is the default media, but additional bio media in the 3rd tray that Fluval just supplies the bags for (so 2 trays of bio). So to get to the question of the post, do I need additional filtration? I am somewhat OCD, so cleaning the filter doesn't bother me, I clean my current Fluval canister every month on my existing tank, and I do weekly 25% water changes, but I can increase volume of those if I need to, although with initial stocking levels I doubt I would need more than that.

Lots of good info here, can't wait to post some pics of my own once everything is in place, I've enjoyed all the pics with good ideas, hope to add to that.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

In the process of setting my first tank as well, nearing the point of adding fish. Beyond the general rule of thumb that you should turn the water in your tank over somewhere near 10 times an hour, I concluded that the advantages of 2 (or more) filters was that you could alternate the cleaning/maintenance, leaving one to run while you clean the other which would help smooth over any negative bump the beneficial bacteria took in the cleaning process. My aviation career taught me to really like redundancy, but since you've already got some fishkeeping experience, it seems like you'll quickly figure out whether or not you need that safeguard. I did, so I got two canisters.


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## 2Malamutes (Apr 8, 2014)

hose91, I had read your thread on your tank, and enjoyed all the info. I can appreciate having a failsafe, a lot of my struggle here is aesthetic, I'd rather not have my tank look like I have a distillation plant running on the background, and one tank I saw on here had five  filters running on it! Now I am certain that resulted in extremely clean water, I just wonder at what point one has reached diminishing returns, and have no appreciable gains over fewer filters. My Fluval 206 off my current tank would be woefully small on a 120, even as a secondary filter, so perhaps at this point I'll start with the FX6, and should I need supplemental filtration, add on a 406 or similar. Noise is a key factor for me as the tank is on the floor directly above our master bedroom, and did I mention I was OCD :lol: , so a HOB just won't work for me, but I could easily add another canister if I could just conceal the plumbing.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

I understand that, I have a tank in my TV room so HOB's can be very annoying for me to.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks for the nice words! The fx6 pump is rated at 925 gallons an hour, so you're turning over a 120G tank 7.5 times an hour, which I think is a wholly acceptable range, even for a well stocked Malawi tank. I get the OCD thing. I"m an engineer, and I like symmetry, so for me, having two identical filters, one on each end of a 4' tank, was ideal. In the end, the risk of losing a whole tank because a newer, high performance aquarium filter quit working is probably pretty low. You've got the capacity for the fish you want, so anything more is just personal preference, imho. The multi directional return is also nice, as maybe that keeps you from putting a wavemaker or powerhead in for circulation to the intake. Rereading your OP, one thing I read on the dual heaters was that you could keep one set a couple degrees below the other one, which probably keeps you from having them both on at once, and might keep the tank on a more stable temperature curve overall. Seemed like a good idea when I read it, but I'm not sure it's worthwhile. Best of luck, keep us posted, I'll be watching for updates!!


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## Boe82 (Mar 6, 2014)

The Fx6 pump is rated at over 900 gallons per hour but the canister once filled with media is only rated at like 565 gallons per hour or so (when canister is clean)


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

The "rule of thumb" of 10x turnover, is one someone made up arbitrarily, and has taken on a life of it's own. There are lots of reasons for high turnover, but having a filter that works biologically isn't one of them. Good reasons for redundancy too. However, if you have a filter of sufficient size to keep ammonia and nitrite at 0, adding a second filter of the same size means the filters will split the load. Thinking that more filtration means less maintenance also doesn't really work because whatever is hidden in the filter is still in the tank. Bottom line is any filter that keeps the ammonia and nitrite at 0, is sufficient, and adding more doesn't decrease the need for maintenance or water changes.
I would definitely not put 600 watts of heating in a 120 gallon tank for fear of failure. Two heaters is a good idea, but not if each heater is capable of heating the tank. The forums are filled with stories of fish soup caused by failed heaters that were too big for the tank they were in.


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## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

Thats kind of what I was thinking. So long as you have good oxygenation and enough biological filtration you have enough filtration. Anything more is mostly an attempt to suck in more poop before it breaks down in the substrate right? I had a fluval 306 on my 60 and added a HOB filter following the recommendations and didn't see any difference in any of my numbers. It also didn't seem to make a whole lot of difference in the detritus build up in my gravel.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Sucking in more **** is what higher rates of flow might help with. However, having it break down in the filter is the same as it breaking down in the substrate. It only serves a purpose, if the great job of removing solids from the tank is accompanied by a great job, by the aquarist, of removing those solids from the filter before they break down.


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## 2Malamutes (Apr 8, 2014)

BillD said:


> I would definitely not put 600 watts of heating in a 120 gallon tank for fear of failure. Two heaters is a good idea, but not if each heater is capable of heating the tank. The forums are filled with stories of fish soup caused by failed heaters that were too big for the tank they were in.


Thanks for the contribution re the filtration. The reason for that level of heat potential is not fear of failure so much as fear of overworking a single, or two smaller heaters. This winter for instance the living room where the tank will be was 52 degrees with some frequency. In my 37g column I burned up a 200W heater keeping that tank at 78, and the 250W replacement seems to do a better job. I will have an Apex Jr. controlling the temp in the tank, and I haven't found anyone who says their Apex has failed but I won't claim it isn't possible. I am much more concerned about a single heater failing with ambient temp in the low 50's. Perhaps failed logic, but after my experience with what should have been plenty of heater on a smaller tank, I'm not sure what the "right amount" of heater is.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

2 filters aren't neccessary, but are nice. I have no tanks over 10 gallons running 1 filter. Do I actually stagger maintenance? Nope. Should I? Probably.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

I would think, that since heaters fail, usually, because of a problem with the thermostat, a heater that never shut off should last longer. The constant on an off cycle is likely the cause of failure. 52F in the living room? I am glad I don't live at your house. Regardless, I would be looking at some way to add insulation to the tank without detracting from it's appearance. I would suspect that the tank will help keep the room warmer.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

2 filters is definitely piece of mind. I came home from Mexico last year to an FX5 pump failure. Thank God I had another FX5 on the same tank.

I like it cool in the house, but 52 degrees is quite brisk. My 300 watt cycled and kept a 180 at a steady 78-79 in a room that saw temps of 64-65 throughout this brutal winter. I would only add a second heater to your tank in anticipation of winter.


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

BillD said:


> The "rule of thumb" of 10x turnover, is one someone made up arbitrarily, and has taken on a life of it's own. There are lots of reasons for high turnover, but having a filter that works biologically isn't one of them. Good reasons for redundancy too. However, if you have a filter of sufficient size to keep ammonia and nitrite at 0, adding a second filter of the same size means the filters will split the load. Thinking that more filtration means less maintenance also doesn't really work because whatever is hidden in the filter is still in the tank. Bottom line is any filter that keeps the ammonia and nitrite at 0, is sufficient, and adding more doesn't decrease the need for maintenance or water changes.
> I would definitely not put 600 watts of heating in a 120 gallon tank for fear of failure. Two heaters is a good idea, but not if each heater is capable of heating the tank. The forums are filled with stories of fish soup caused by failed heaters that were too big for the tank they were in.


I thought folks were claiming 5x ? 

Invest in a reliable water test kit, then you can closely monitors the ater parameters. Then adjust filtration from these numbers.

There was a guy/gal in another forum who had 3 FX6s in his 180 gallon cichlid tank. He/she started wondering if having 3 of those monster filters rated @ 400 gallons each was too much. Test your water !!


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

chopsteeks said:


> BillD said:
> 
> 
> > The "rule of thumb" of 10x turnover, is one someone made up arbitrarily, and has taken on a life of it's own. There are lots of reasons for high turnover, but having a filter that works biologically isn't one of them. Good reasons for redundancy too. However, if you have a filter of sufficient size to keep ammonia and nitrite at 0, adding a second filter of the same size means the filters will split the load. Thinking that more filtration means less maintenance also doesn't really work because whatever is hidden in the filter is still in the tank. Bottom line is any filter that keeps the ammonia and nitrite at 0, is sufficient, and adding more doesn't decrease the need for maintenance or water changes.
> ...


Read the second post, above.


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## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

well can't comment on your 2 heater wattage situation as where i live my single 250w ehiem has little work to do in our climate.
as far as 2 filters go, yes i do with close to the magical number of 10x times turnover rate.
is that turnover rate really required..maybe not but it's working great for me as a crystal clear tank. 

also i think it wise to clean one filter and leave it 3 weeks or so before doing the other. by the way mine are canister 1x fx5 and another 1400lph and i use a 2300lph wavemaker.

hope all is well, my 2cents worth :wink:


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