# Stocking 5ft 120g



## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Hello everyone!

I am nearing completion of my 5ft 120g and am starting to think about the stocking :dancing: As always, I need everyone's advice on this so I don't make the same mistake twice. Here is a little background on the situation: My first tank is a 3ft 65g - stocked it with 7 rusties, 8 yellow labs, and 13 demasoni. Ended up loosing 6 demasoni which was no fun especially for my daughters. Have not lost a fish since and have gone through 2 broods of demasoni - I got three the first time and successfully stripped her the 2nd time and got 11 more.  I now have 8 demasoni in the 65g and 12 in a 10g @ about .5 in long. My plan is to keep only the rusties in the 65g as a single species mbuna, add 1 pleco, and add 5 dwarf syno. The 5ft 120 will take all the demasoni and labs for a total of 20 demasoni ( most ranging from 2-3 @ 2in to the .5 in fry) - wont add the fry until they are an inch long and 8 yellow labs. I am considering adding 7 yellow tail acei - I like their color better than the whites- and stopping there, but I really would like to add a white color or orange, but do not want cross breeding issues, so I am leaning towards 5 white pearl zebras. The 120 has two aquatop CF 500's and a FX5 for filteration/flow. My question/concern is am I overstocking too much? What would any of you consider to be a good final number in this tank when they are closer to or @ adult size? Any other suggestions for stocking ideas with the labs and demasoni? Am I limiting my species options by having so many demasoni and labs? Again, I want to avoid the same disaster I experienced the first time. Thanks again for the help. Getting excited and plan to post the whole project on the DIY thread once I get pics loaded! :thumb:


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

I have the same size tank and have 30 haps and peacocks in mine. Thinking of adding potentially 5 more. With your setup of smaller mbuna and plenty of filtration I think you could go for 35 to 40 fish as long as you keep up on the weekly water changes.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks for the info. I will keep up with weekly changes, but not looking forward to changing out 50-60g/wk. I have a python, but I like to treat my H2O before adding it which means a lot of bucket dumping. I'll get use to it though and hoping my nitrates levels will allow for maybe 40g/wk , but not likely I'm guessing. I'll bet your tank is awesome, are they mostly adults?


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

I do a 50% to 60% water change each week. Most of my stock is between 3" and 4.5" . I have a few that are 5" or larger. Most are sub adult male and things are starting to color up so I am hoping for a colorful tank.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Your filtration is very strong. Stock those 3 species with confidence.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks Hapguy that gives me a good idea of what I'm in for with water changes. Sounds like they are starting to turn and should be quite a tank to see. Thanks Iggy for the vote of confidence. I am hoping the extra 2ft help the demasoni establish better. Iggy, do you think I would be pushing it to stock a 4th species like white pearl zebras or maybe just add the yellow tail and once things have established in several months then maybe try adding a 4th species? Also, have you ever heard of what would define "understocking" or not having enough mbuna to spread aggression? Here is what I am thinking,

Demasoni: 15-20 ( will add 6 fry @ first and leave 5 in the 10gallon - then possibly sell the 5 other f2's or add them in the tank) goal will be 3 male 12 female if I can figure that out

yellow labs: 8 ( Have not come close to identifying m/f yet)

Yellow tail acei: 7 ( will request 1 male 6 female from supplier, but not sure that will be possible)

? maybe pearl white zebra - I'm open to suggestions here, I've even started to consider cyno hara's, but want a different color: 5 (1m/4f if possible maybe now, later, or never)

I don't want to add a fourth species if it may complicate the establishment of the other three too much. I could be satisfied with the three but if a 4th isn't that big of stretch in the 5ft, I'd like to do it. Thanks again for the advice. Much appreciated.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

If it were my tank I'd add a fourth species.

The pearl zebras are M. Callainos, right?


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Yes. The M.callinos. I considered albino socolofi, but thought about getting something other than another pseudotropheus. I really would like a little more variety, and could always just adjust the number of demasoni. I've heard you should have at least 12, but I gotta say my 8 have done quite well in the 65g, so you never know.


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## promoe (Apr 28, 2009)

Rusty look great with Acei IMO...Rusty,Demasoni,Labs and Acei would be a great mix. If you want to do a cyno sp. I would remove the Rusty from the 65 and do a group in there.Thats just me.. I keep several "Cyno-type" mbuna and love to mix them with Rusties in my breeder tanks. Maybe grow out some fry and do them in with a group of Hara's in your 65g?


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Great idea! I may have to consider that. If I did the Hara, I might just do a single species since they get bigger, but I could do a lion species with the rusties in the 65g. hmm. thanks for the advice! Nice Tuna in the pick!


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

crazycolt42 said:


> Here is what I am thinking,
> 
> Demasoni: 15-20 ( will add 6 fry @ first and leave 5 in the 10gallon - then possibly sell the 5 other f2's or add them in the tank) goal will be 3 male 12 female if I can figure that out
> 
> ...


I'm jealous of you with an extra foot of length over my 4' 75G that gives you good room for a fourth or fifth species!! These four would look spectacular, imo. I think you could also go with Metriaclima Zebra Golds (I think that's right). Barred, but gold (duh!) and look to be darker than your labs. Cynotilapia "Lion" would be similar and also a cool counter point to what you have in there so far. On further review, though, I still think the white (zebra or socolofi) would look better. You seem to have lots of good options and can maybe take a few risks, especially with that 65G as an extra home if things get a bit sideways. I can see how MTS can take over. So many fish, so few tanks! Good luck!


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks! I had to go with either a 4 or 5 ft. Couldn't fit a 6ft in the space it's going in. Took forever to find one pop up on craigslist, but worth the wait I hope. I almost went with a 75g when it didn't seem like a 5ft would ever become available and that is a great size you have. I may wish I had when I start doing all these water changes! Your right there are so many fish and so few tanks! I thought about taking a little risk and trying a labeotropheus species - the one with ob white females and red males, I think it is called chilumba or something. I have not heard of the gold and will look into that. thanks again for the advice. It helps to talk to other cichlid lovers before making the big decision.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Well, it's done. Made an order today. So, here's how it will look..
65g/ 3ft - 7 rusties 2m/5f and 5 cyno. species lion "purple lupingu" 1m/4f
120g/ 5ft - 8 f1 demasoni, 7 f2 demasoni, 8 electric yellow lion's cove, 7 yellow tail acei , 5 white pearl zebra met. callainos
Really excited to see how it all looks! 
Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I'd suggest adding at least another 3 M. Callainos to the order.

Should be a very colorful tank!


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Should I do that so I can weed out excessive males, have better numbers of that species so they establish well, or for better overstocking overall? I could easily do that, but just curious as to why. Thank you for the help! I've never kept them before and am still a newby


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Being Metriaclima they can be quite boisterous. I do not have personal experience with Callainos. They're suggested as a 1 boy to 4 girls species, which is pretty standard as far as mbuna goes. With only 5, you put yourself in a situation where your chances of getting 3 or 4 females is slim. If you end up with only a pair as they mature, the male's attention can overwhelm a lone or limited amount of females. You may find that a couple males will live ok together in such a large tank. I have M estherae, which would be considered similar in aggression to Callainos. I do have multiple males around 4" in a six foot tank. It has been difficult to get this to work, with timeouts and moving fish around. Honestly, a PITA. Right now it's fine, but that could change any day. If I had half a brain I would just keep one, but.... What was I talking about?


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

I wondered about that. I wasn't sure if callainos were more mellow or not, but why take a chance. I'll bet it's a PITA with 4 males. I hate the idea of getting rid of fish though. The cyno's are the only ones the supplier could sex for sure, and hoping I get lucky with the acei. For some reason I just didn't worry about it with the M. callainos, but I have read about other species of metriaclima where you run into trouble with too many males (like most mbuna). It's not too late for me to change my order, so I think I'll change it to 8 total, and come to think of it, probably add another acei as well. I need to think of it as ending up with the numbers I listed with ideal M/F ratios and that will take some weeding out probably. I just won't want to get rid of them! I'll probably end up doing what your doing and just try to deal with it. Thanks for the advice.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Congrats on the order, I am sure you're stoked to get the new fish. Should be an awesome tank!


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks hose91. I am stoked and a little nervous @ the same time. Hoping this goes much better. Since this is my 2nd go @ it and I have received so much help from you all on the forum, I think things will be much more smooth. I really appreciate the positive feedback. I plan on posting it all with pics here soon in the DIY thread.


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## Demasoni1 (Apr 9, 2014)

Good luck!! Hope to see the thread soon.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks man. Final order is in. Will be here tomorrow. New tank is almost cycled after a week with ammonia @ .5 today after a second 2ppm dosing two nights ago, nitrite @ 0, and nitrates b/t 5 and 10. Cycle baby cycle! I'm seeding the tank with all my rock from the 65g. Hope that helps too.

8 yellow tail acei
8 M. Callainos white pearl zebras
8 cyno. species lion, purple lupingu


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

The rock will help. Did you use any other established media?


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Two bags of ceramic rings. I think I just dosed too much the 2nd time and it is taking it a while. When I tested this AM before my order arrived, they were b/t .25 and .50 so I dosed the tank with prime which I had not done since filling the tank last Friday. Only going to feed them all once today and none tomorrow. Hopefully the prime buys me some time over the next 48hrs. and the bio will have caught up. I absolutely love the Acei! They are amazing looking. The pearl zebras are cool too. The Cyno. are only about an inch long and actually look a lot like Demasoni fry. Going to have to wait for them to get more mature before I can appreciate them, but I have a feeling they will look good with the Rusties. Things are going OK so far except my two largest male Demasoni who had been neutral in the 65g has one chasing the other quite a bit. In the 65g, the two males are chasing everyone off their newly established territory in the rock pile I made. I' m going to need to add more rock in the 65g I can tell or the females and Cyno. will have no where to go with the way those two males are acting.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Well, two days in and my ammonia is still reading .50ppm. I'm going to dose prime again today and try not to feed them (very hard for me to do). I don't want to do a water change though. Here is my reasoning: We have considerable amount of chloramine (.25-.50ppm) in our tap here, so when I do a water change, the prime converts it to something that can be taken up by the biofilter, but not be toxic to the fish. So, I am basically supplying the bio with more "food" when I introduce new water. Not an issue when a tank is mature, but adds more to the bioload with a cycling tank. If I hold off on water change until my nitrates are getting towards 20ppm, that gives the bio more time to catch up and handle the ammonia being produced by the fish, which would be the only 'food" for the bacteria if I do not do a water change. Does this sound right?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I think you should do a water change. Prime converts ammonia for the biofilter.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

I've been looking around on various discussions regarding this.. you'd think this was my first tank, and your right. I'm gonna have to do water changes to keep in below .25ppm. I did that last time, but thought I was delaying the cycling process by changing so much. Sounds like most use prime with the really toxic emergencies high ammonia and nitrites, but my ammonia has not even been to 1.0ppm and nitrites are @ 0 and nitrates are @5ppm. I'm not sure what's going on. I thought b/t seeding with all the rock, using live substrate, and adding 2 bottles of Dr. Tim's one and only, plus using pure ammonia to cycle for a week I had it all worked out. It was lowering fast and then just stalled @ .50ppm.Just to be sure checked ammonia in the 65g and it's zero. Should have given myself more time to cycle before having the fish arrive, but that was my only day to be home and have fish delivered in the next several weeks. Oh well, here we go again!


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks Iggy for your help. How's the demasoni doing? Gonna post any updates soon?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I've used Dr. Tim's. It worked great for me. You should be fine in the next few days, I would think. Just stay on top of the water tests and Prime/water changes.

Planning on an update tonight maybe. Waiting for it to get dark to take some new pictures. Watching my beloved Bulls get their brains beat in right now. Hopefully the Blackhawks lift my spirits....


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

That's my plan :thumb: Can't wait to see some new picks. Absolutely love that tank =D> I feel for ya man. My Pacers are doing no better :x Can't wait for football to get here. :dancing:


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

The tank finally cycled about 5 days ago. Never had an issue with the nitrite, but ammonia hung around .25 for a couple of days. Did a 40g water change and ammonia read zero two days later and numbers have been good since. :thumb: The mbuna are for the most part much more calm. The tank has a more relaxed feel to it. There was a lot of chasing and aggression by the dominant demasoni especially towards another subdominant but even larger male. They had been neutral in the 65g, but the slightly smaller dominant one chased everybody for about two days. I've added one 1 demasoni that was in my 10g and about 1.5 in. long. So my total number is @ 33. I have 10 half inch demasoni in my 10g and am now debating how many to add to my tank, and how many to sell or give away. I really want to have now the max number I can have when they are all near full sized adults. I don't want to have too take any out as they get bigger because there are too many. If I have a real trouble maker(too many aggressive males) that is one thing, but if I have 5 males and three females of a species, and everything is going fine, I'm not going to get rid of 4 males just for an ideal ratio. So, I am wondering what would be a comfortable number for overstocking @ adult sizes with these four species? Given that I for sure have 8 yellow labs, 8 yellow tail acei, 8 white pearl zebras, and 9 + ? demasoni. I'm thinking about going with 5 more demasoni and selling the other five. Suggestions?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Glad the cycle is under control for you.

Regarding the demasoni...
Your question about how many to add and concerns about overstocking the tank reminds me of a story. A member here had a 75 or 90 stocked with demasoni. I do not recall if there were other species, but that's irrelevant in this case. They bred like crazy and were just populating the tank over and over. Once this member decided to sell off the group they started breaking down the tank. They stopped counting at 75 individuals. That's a lot of fish. Anyways, I think you should grow out all your little dudes and toss them in the 120. Don't take out any fish if you feel it is unnecessary.


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## crazycolt42 (Nov 10, 2013)

Wow! That's amazing! That is just what I needed to hear Iggy. I want them to be the main fish in the tank anyways. That was my motivation to get another tank that would suit them well and I purposely made sure to not have any other fish with barring. Thanks man! Loved the pics BTW!


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