# Why not simplify all those sump designs???



## chiroken (Sep 25, 2007)

I've spent countless hours researching sump set ups and I'll tell you, they can be as complicated as you can possibly imagine! I will be setting up a sump for a 300g 8' tank. The existing sump is a 6 footer and has a few baffles in it already (previously was a salt water setup from another owner). I am also planning to convert my 90g into having a sump underneath and thinking of doing the same for a 55g.

I have been planning on going with the vertical storage drawers to hold filter media, using the top drawer as a drip plate with a finer foam/floss for mechanical filtration. Either throw out the floss or just rinse and replace the foam. The lower drawers would house a whack of dish scrubbies or some other media for bio filtration. Heaters in the bottom and a return pump. Seems pretty simple. I have a 6 foot tank and the rest seems like such a waste for potential filtration.

I came across this website about poret filter foam. I know many use it, I've never. http://www.poret-aquarium-filter.co.nz/ ... -media.php

It has 2 very simple diagrams for a wet and a wet/dry sump. Why couldn't this design be used? No bunch of installed baffles to direct flow up, over, down, under, back up etc. In the wet example I would leave a larger end portion open to house heaters and the return pump. No baffles needed, my understanding is that the poret foam is firm and wide enough to stay in place once it is in its position. I've seen people even use the foam as tank dividers to separate fish and have them biofilter at the same time simply using a powerhead at 1 end pushing water back to the other end.

Any ideas? Any potential problems with this system? Will water flow evenly through the poret foam top to bottom in the wet design?


----------



## swk (Mar 16, 2010)

If you're gonna DIY a sump, I would strongly suggest using filter socks. They handle mechanical so much better than drip tray setups it's unreal. On my tanks without filter socks I usually run a canister to polish up on the mechanical side of things. On my tanks that use socks they're simply not needed.

So do yourself a favor and at least consider using filter socks instead of floss!


----------



## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

the main reason you want water running up and over something is that if the drain were to get clogged and your pump still ran, you'd pump the entire volume of your sump back up into a tank with no room for it and onto the floor...At least put a baffle in and create a compartment just large enough to hold your pump or if the pump is external to hold just a few gallons so if the drains clog and the pump continues to run you won't empty then entire sump onto the floor. I've got a 4 foot refugium/sump with only 2 baffles and it works great.
Like this:
two baffles - water flows up between them through the poret foam and ceramic rings









another view of the hole thing: the shorter piece before the first baffle is to hold my plants' substrate from going into the foam. The compartment on the far right holds about 6 gallons, not enough to overflow my tank if the pump to were pump it all out.


----------



## les_82 (Jul 14, 2013)

im not so sure that sump is a good idea, if the power goes out and some water drains back to the sump there wont be any room. which means it will be all over the floor


----------



## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

This is true, some of the more complex components of a sump are designed to help avoid overspill as well as reduce noise. I would think all those drip trays would create a lot of noise. Imagine the sound of a toilet constantly running in your display room. Not ideal at all.


----------



## chiroken (Sep 25, 2007)

clhinds78: I've been told the drip tray is quite quiet. My thot was the same as yours though. I've never had one so I can't say.

swk: everyone I read about filter socks raves about them....except cleaning them at least 1-2 times/wk with big African cichlids. Not so sure I want the hassle of rinsing, drying socks all the time!

lilscoots: I like the simplicity of the design and creating the small compartment for the pump makes perfect sense so as to not overflow the main tank. les_82 is right though....in a power outage looks like you'll overflow that sump! I would be more comfortable with dropping down the two righter-most baffles so as the "empty" sump space will be large enough to hold however many gallos drain out of the display tank when the pump fails/loses power.

May have found a 90 gallon acrylic sump today that was used for a salt water tank for $70! Will check it out. Will have to cover 1 bottom hole as it was an above sump. I'm thinking of downsizing to a 4 foot sump rather than a 6 foot sump under the 8 foot tank. Will give me some more storage space and I really don't think a 6 foot tank is at all necessary for a 300g freshwater tank. At that price I can slough off the 6 foot tank and not be out money.


----------



## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

The height of the baffles was calculated. In a power outage it fills up to a half inch below the lip...it's full but it doesn't overflow  but yes I could have put the baffles lower and made it look "safer".

As far as noise goes, sumps can be plumbed to be silent. Mine are plumbed this way.


----------



## chiroken (Sep 25, 2007)

well done then on the calculations! I think the tilt to the tank outside was making it look pretty full on that right side. I won't be able to calculate the overflow amount until I actually get the overflow box I'm going to use. Looking like I'm going to rip out the 2 side over flow boxes that take up tons of room and go with a dual pipe single internal overflow box from a US retailer. Takes up very little space.


----------



## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

My wet dry is about as simple as they get. It doesn't use any baffles and can't overflow the sump or the tank. As you can see in the picture below the sump is a standard 20 gallon tank. The wet dry section is housed inside a 5 gallon bucket, and the sump is divided by the blue poret foam. The return pump is on the other side of the foam insert. This filter supports 34 cichlids ranging from 2 to 4 inches in a 100 gallon tank and has been doing so for over 7 months now.



This is the drip tray setup. It uses a 100 micron pad folded up on the edges to ensure all water flows through the pad. I clean it once a week but it could go longer. I just like to swap them during a water change, only takes a few seconds.








So no filters don't have to be as complicated as people make them. If you look at any retail wet dry you can see how simple they are

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## chiroken (Sep 25, 2007)

b3w4r3 said:


> My wet dry is about as simple as they get. It doesn't use any baffles and can't overflow the sump or the tank. As you can see in the picture below the sump is a standard 20 gallon tank. The wet dry section is housed inside a 5 gallon bucket, and the sump is divided by the blue poret foam. The return pump is on the other side of the foam insert. This filter supports 34 cichlids ranging from 2 to 4 inches in a 100 gallon tank and has been doing so for over 7 months now.
> 
> This is the drip tray setup. It uses a 100 micron pad folded up on the edges to ensure all water flows through the pad. I clean it once a week but it could go longer. I just like to swap them during a water change, only takes a few seconds.
> So no filters don't have to be as complicated as people make them. If you look at any retail wet dry you can see how simple they are


What do you have loaded in the 5 gallon bucket? I've come across these pail wet/dry set ups before. what are the mid-height holes for? Doesn't the water drain out the bottom of the bucket into the sump tank?


----------



## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

chiroken said:


> What do you have loaded in the 5 gallon bucket? I've come across these pail wet/dry set ups before. what are the mid-height holes for? Doesn't the water drain out the bottom of the bucket into the sump tank?


I have 4 gallons of bio balls, but pot scrubbers would provide about double the surface area. The holes in the side are for gas exchange to allow air into the bucket. Yes there are holes in the bottom of the bucket so the water falls into the sump. You can't hear the the water falling because the bucket dampens it a lot. If the water level in the sump was below the bucket it would likely make more noise, but I run it a bit above like in the pic.


----------



## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

As far as noise goes said:


> So how do you do this?


----------



## Kalost (Feb 27, 2013)

By using a Durso or Stockman standpipe


----------



## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Kalost said:


> By using a Durso or Stockman standpipe


Instead of just using a standard drilled bulkhead?


----------



## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

clhinds78 said:


> So how do you do this?


I run a beananimal or herbie style full siphon overflow, I've got some cavitation noise in the siphon line of my 180 at the moment because I never glued the pvc and it's pulling air from around the fittings into the pipe, My 125 is dead silent using the same system and glued pvc.


----------

