# Nitrates high with sump?



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

So Im having difficulty controlling nitrates - looking for suggestions -
75G with 20g sump. Pot scrubbers over ceramic rings with a mechanical pad filter tray over all of it. 1000 gph return pump.

I do weekly water changes, 50% /prime.

Last 50% WC was sunday. This morning my nitrates were at least 80ppm. :roll:

Im going to do a wc when I get home, and daily WC's unitl it comes down.

Im also going to add a couple packs of purigen to the mix.

Thoughts?

I changed the mechanical pad a month ago. Tank setup is a year old. *** never taken the bio media out and "cleaned" it. not sure f I even should.


----------



## oyster dog (Jul 2, 2013)

Have you tested your tap water for nitrates?


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

yes. ~10


----------



## oyster dog (Jul 2, 2013)

Are you sure you are not overfeeding your fish? I have a 210 gallon with 25% weekly water changes, and my nitrates stay below 10. My tap water is < 1 nitrates.


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

that I might be . im always terrified of.over feeding but at the same time try and feed so everyone gets some. I feed no more than they consume in a couple minutes though. usually one time a day


----------



## oyster dog (Jul 2, 2013)

How many, and what size fish do you have?


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

theres about 20 in there. ranging in size from 5 inch adults to 2.5 inch older juvies. most are in the 3.5" range.


----------



## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Borsig said:


> that I might be . im always terrified of.over feeding but at the same time try and feed so everyone gets some. I feed no more than they consume in a couple minutes though. usually one time a day


e]

I do the same thing when feeding but a couple minutes is way too long. Try to scatter a decent amount across the entire tank not in just one location, and as much as they can consume within 10-15 seconds twice a day.

Also It may be time to overhaul your Sump and rinse and scrub everything you got in there to try and combat the waste buildup, even with the pre filter pad small particles can get past and build up over time. Make sure you use aquarium water to rinse and scrub everything, an old toothbrush can be a good tool for this. It;s best to do this about every 6 months to help control nitrate buildup. Also Remember with high oxygen comes the price of quick nitrogen waste breakdown, so in other words food and waste will be converted to Nitrate 5 times faster in a good wet/dry setup, cutting down on feeding will help this and also keeping the substrate well syphoned will also help.

Do a few large water changed also to get you nitrates under control since you are starting at 10ppm trying to keep it at 20 ppm might be unrealistic maybe just try to keep them under 40 every time your nitrate test is red do a water change.


----------



## POPSS (Aug 24, 2013)

you say 20 fish in a 75g ranging from 5", with 3.5" being the average, IMHO your tank is over stocked. I would be doing 50 to 70% water changes every 3 days. 4 tops. sump is doing its job, the bio load is heavy IMHO.


----------



## POPSS (Aug 24, 2013)

after thinking about this, I would be doing water changes every other day with that stock while looking for a larger tank or another tank to put some in, you will need at least a 180g tank min for current stock, bio load is just to heavy, that's IMHO.


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

I doubt I'll ever do water changes that much.... I dont have the time to keep up with it.

Not seeing how 20 fish in a 75g is overstocked really. I ran 15 fish in this thing a year with no issues.

Even the cookie cutter setups on this site show numbers ranging from 17-22 fish.

I disagree that 20 in a 75 is over stocked. In fact I think you will find thats fairly typical around here.


----------



## POPSS (Aug 24, 2013)

if they where 1 and a half to 2 inches I would agree, with 20 5" to 3" fish and some still growing i can not agree. no mean to offend here, and again that is only my opinion.


----------



## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Borsig said:


> I doubt I'll ever do water changes that much.... I dont have the time to keep up with it.
> 
> Not seeing how 20 fish in a 75g is overstocked really. I ran 15 fish in this thing a year with no issues.
> 
> ...


Your tank is definitely overstocked and yes it is typical for African Cichlid tanks to be overstocked but that doesn't mean that the people keeping an overstocked tank are not making crazy water changes to keep parameters in check. Overstocking is good for dispersing aggression but not good if you don't have time for tank maintanance.


----------



## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Borsig said:


> I doubt I'll ever do water changes that much.... I dont have the time to keep up with it.
> 
> Not seeing how 20 fish in a 75g is overstocked really. I ran 15 fish in this thing a year with no issues.
> 
> ...


Doesn't sound overstocked to me. Is this an mbuna tank? Water changes every other day or 3rd day sounds a bit overkill in my experience. However, you need to find the culprit. You say you've never cleaned the bio media. Are there organics (detritus) in there? Maybe a sump pic would help here. Decaying fish somewhere?
Your tap water tests for 10ppm nitrates?


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Yes Mbuna - 3 labs, 6 acei, 11 metriaclima dolphin ndonga

A lot of dirt in the sump yes.

50% WC and sump clean out yesterday. Changed mechanical media. Added Seachem purigen.

By late last night the water was more clear than its been in a LONG time, and I use a uv sterilizer in this tank. I definitely attribute that to the purigen.

Last night showed 20-30ppm nitrates.

Now heres the strange thing - today the nitrates have DROPPED. *** done nothing but let it run. they are now ~ 5-10 PPM (what the tap reads)

I have no idea why, as the purigen doesn't remove nitrates - it only adsorbs organaic wastes, thus preventing nitrates from being created.

The really disturbing thing, is that this tank ALWAYS reads .25ppm ammonia. I can never get it below that, while my tap water is 0. I don't understand why that is (test kit is less than a year old API) unless its something in the chemical reaction of the kit.... But its definitely a light green where the tap is yellow.

Surely the massive amount of biomedia I have can handle this load. The sump should be at least 4x what I need, and the pump is 700+ GPH at 3 feet of head. And its darn sure producing ALOT of nitrates. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next several days with the purigen in there. The only thing I can think o with that at the moment, is that I might have too much flow through it. *** heard in the past you can have too much pass thru a sump.


----------



## POPSS (Aug 24, 2013)

I would check ammonia.


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

ammonia is as usual .25 ppm


----------



## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

This has to be some kind of false reading by your test kit, what do you dose if anything?


----------



## POPSS (Aug 24, 2013)

API fresh water test kit? if it aint green ammonia 0, if is yellow in any way, ammonia 0. their will be no yellow if ammonia present.


----------



## the57student (Aug 31, 2013)

> I do weekly water changes 50%


I think you are getting some new tank syndrome.

I was having problems with nitrates myself. I run 2 aquaclear 110 filters on my 90 gallon tank. I was doing several things wrong. I was overfeeding, and I was changing 50% of my water and cleaning my filters on the same day, which caused a Nitrogen cycle. I did a 25% water change and did the 5x emergency dose of Prime as the label stated. After 3 days I did a 10% water change with a regular dose of Prime and the water is now fine. I now clean a filter, wait a week, do the other filter, and wait 2 weeks then do a 25% water change. (adjust for your setup). Combine that along with making sure to not overfeed and you should be fine.


----------



## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

usually if it's a bad test kit your tap will read the same thing .25ppm, so I am thinking your test kit is picking up a reading of either ammonium or chloramine both of which are bound forms of ammonia. Chloramine is usual broken down immediately while using Prime to Ammonia which is then bound to less toxic ammonium. Here is where most people will get a false reading of ammonia where the reading is actually Ammonium. The problem with this is the reading should be 0 about 2 days after a water change. I was doing some reading and some were suggesting that it could take 2-3 weeks sometimes all ammonium to be removed and for the readings to go down to 0.

So I have a theory that maybe the tap water is being treated with high amounts of chloramine which is being converted to ammonium by Prime it is then taking a while to get removed, maybe 2 weeks or so. Then after a week the water is changed and the process starts all over, never being able to see a 0 reading. I still find it strange that the ammonium would take so long to get out of the system, just a theory though.


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

Im on a well. I doubt my tap water is being treated with any thing.

I'll continue to check daily, but as I said I havent seen anything less than .25 ppm in a long time. Maybe the purigen will help with this


----------



## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

very strange, im stumped.


----------



## POPSS (Aug 24, 2013)

sorry i can not in good consience (sp) not reply. The tank is over stocked, unless you do every other day water changes of at least 50% , 70% better you will never control nitrates or ammonia. I do not mean to offend but the laws of chemical physics just are not there. x fish create x bio load according to there mass. and 20 3' to 5" does not work in a 75g tank.


----------



## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

POPSS said:


> sorry i can not in good consience (sp) not reply. The tank is over stocked, unless you do every other day water changes of at least 50% , 70% better you will never control nitrates or ammonia. I do not mean to offend but the laws of chemical physics just are not there. x fish create x bio load according to there mass. and 20 3' to 5" does not work in a 75g tank.


POPSS It seems to me you keep south american and central american cichlids like I do, with these types yea this would be the case. Mbuna are 1/3 the size of an oscar at 5 inches. Plus african cichlids are alway kept this way, always have been ever since I can remember. Last time I had africans was 10 years ago and I kept 10-15 in a 50 gallon.


----------



## POPSS (Aug 24, 2013)

thanks walz, you are correct and I stand corrected. never done Africans, I graciously step off my white horse. to me 20 fish that size is nuts in a 75g. but as stated never did old world.


----------



## Borsig (Nov 21, 2012)

today - same readings, no change. I have no idea why the nitrates went that high. WIll monitor and do a mid week water change before I go out of town friday.


----------

