# loss of color



## Nezlar (Aug 4, 2009)

I have a mostly malawi 70g tank. I'll be upgrading to a 150g in the next month or two. I bought what I found out was actually a 'Christmas Fulu' Haplochromis (Xystichromis) Phytophagus. It was mixed into a buy 2 get one free bag of Red Empress' I had bought. I've also read they are rare and considered extinct in Lake Victoria now.

When I first put him in he showed some decent color, especially towards my alpha male and other males in the tank. But after a week or so in the tank I dont ever see him showing color anymore. What are different ways you can change that? Adding more hiding spots? Will upgrading to the bigger tank and giving them more of their own space help?

When I googled the fish they look beautiful when mature and showing full color and I'd love to have him show it now and more so when hes mature.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

What is the full stock list of the tank?


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## Nezlar (Aug 4, 2009)

One of each unless specified...all are an inch or so with the exception of a few

albino zebra
bumblebee
electric yellow
rusty
acei
livingstonii
sunshine peacock? (aulonocara baenschi)
apache or sulfur head (Protomelas spilonotus) I wanna get more and mate these!
electric blue x3
red empress x2
electric blue hap ahli

Christmas Fulu

Lamp Daffodil? (Neolamprologus Pulcher)

Tilapia (unsure exact kind)
OB peacock x2
Another OB looking one mostly orange born in my cousins tank
Some type of female zebra (pale brownish color always being courted by albino and OB)
"Red Blotch" from lfs. Can't find a scientific name for it.


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## Nezlar (Aug 4, 2009)

I forgot to add I have 2 dojo loaches, 2 clown loaches a plecto and syn catfish


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Well, I don't know where to start with that stock list.

But I can bet you that stress is involved in the loss of colour...

This is a very small tank to even begin to try to do what you're doing, and it doesn't seem to be going in any particular direction.

Is it supposed to be an all male tank?

Regardless, it's far too high stress / aggressive of a tank for a Christmas fulu...And many of your other fish are going to find it stressful, as well.


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## Nezlar (Aug 4, 2009)

Well I'm only about 4 months into the hobby and didn't know as much as I do now (which is still a very small amount). I was lead to believe any african cichlid should get along for the most part with others and if you overcrowd the tank aggression will be low. I was just going for a variety of fish until just recently when I bought the electric blues and red empresses.

I know the 70 gallon is too small for this guys once they get full grown but in the next month or 2 they will be moved to a 150 gallon tank. I may keep the 70 for a while and leave a few in there I'm not sure yet.

Eventually I will sell off some of the fish I got and maybe replace about half of what I sell with a few more electric yellows and something else that I already have like the sulfur heads.

Right now the electric yellow, acei, largest OB (also my largest fish) and albino zebra have great color to them.

Thanks for the info tho! Its too tough for me to really figure out what I'd get rid of right now. I think I want to wait and see which ones color up good then I'll weed them out from there.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

> Its too tough for me to really figure out what I'd get rid of right now. I think I want to wait and see which ones color up good then I'll weed them out from there.


Unfortunately, they may "weed" themselves out before you get around to it.

_Stressed fish usually turn into sick fish, if they don't die first._

You aren't the first hobbyist to be misinformed.

I strongly suggest you take some time and do a bit of research on all the fish that you have. They have very different requirements, both dietary and space wise.


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## Nezlar (Aug 4, 2009)

I've witnessed some stressed before that I added to the tank. They would sit in a corner of the tank all by theirselves. I usually took them back to the lfs and got store credit or a different fish.

I've only had to return 2 fish for aggression reasons. One was being overly aggresive to a few of my established fish and the other was getting beat on almost as soon as I put him in. I understand what your saying though and for that reason I watch them constantly. Anyone showing signs of a lot of stress or over agression will be gone.

At the moment I'm laid off and am looking at probably a few more months at least without a job. Plenty of time to get the new tank established. I'm also looking at getting a 30 gallon tank for use mostly with females that are holding eggs and the fry once they hatch. Until the conversion to the bigger 150 gallon I'm probably gonna stock that 30 with a few of these guys.

The other problem too is my gf has bought almost half the fish in the tank. Of course some of those are the ones I'd lean towards getting rid of (especially the neolamprologus pulcher since it's a tanganyika and I have mostly malawi) but of course that one is her favorite. And we all know you gotta really pick your battles with the woman in your life lol.


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## Nezlar (Aug 4, 2009)

also in no way am I competely disregarding your info. you basically told me what I thought was most of the problem from the original post. at the moment everyone gets along with the occasional chase here and there for a second or two but thats somewhat normal for an african cichlid tank right?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The problem is that the stress level in the tank isn't always visible to us. It's not always overt aggression. Intimidation alone is huge, and once you get a stock list that is this off the wall, that's going to be the first thing everyone looks at.

One of the first things we notice in a high stress tank is that the fish don't _look_ like we want them to look...Loss of colour is the subject of this post - and it's one of the first signs of stress in a tank. A fish that 'colours down' is trying to fly under the radar of the more aggressive species.

Loss of colour can also indicate illness. Illness can stem from stress, or it can be introduced with new fish. Rarely will you see health problems in a well established, well stocked tank with no new fish added...

Your stock list is going to muddy the waters, anytime you have a problem in this tank. Because it has so much potential for disaster, it wil be impossible to detect anything else going on in the tank.

A stressed tank almost always turns into a money pit. You wind up with one sick fish after another, and you either invest in meds or lose alot of fish. Sometimes, you do both. :roll:

And that Tilapia will eventually eat everything else in the tank, period...You might warn the gf that the daffodil will probably be his first snack... :wink:


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## Nezlar (Aug 4, 2009)

Wow i didnt realize the tilapia was gonna be that much of a terror. So the fact that his body shape is like a german U-boat is a early sign that this tiny guy will reek some havoc huh?

I'm already thinking about getting rid of my livinstonii for sure. I liked him because he was sort of an oddball but I saw on the suggested begtinners species list something called a venustus that looks similar in color pattern to them. Are those less aggressive?

If I'm looking for a species list that has nice complimentary hot and cold color fish what should I eliminate from my tank so far and what would you suggest me adding to replace some?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The venustus will grow just as large. They are both predators. (This will be okay in the larger tank, but not this one long term...)

You need to decide where you're going with the tank.

Do you want breeding, or do you want one of this and one of that?

It seems like you want 'one of this and one of that'. If so, you should go with an all male tank. It will be more forgiving of your mixing things up a bit.

In general, mbuna shouldn't be housed with peacocks and haps. They are too aggressive for the peacocks to live peacefully, for the most part. This is another area where removing all females will help you out. The males won't have anything to fight about, which will bring the aggression level down a notch...

You don't want two (or more) fish of the same species in an all male set up.

And you don't need that tilapia at all, for either tank size.

If you do get the larger tank (and never try to stock one until you've got the tank in your home) then you could use the smaller tank for breeding your Protomelas spilonotus...But you're going to want to determine which variant you have beyond a doubt before distributing fry from them!


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## Nezlar (Aug 4, 2009)

At first I wanted the one of this one of that variety. But now I feel like i'd rather do some breeding, especially with some of the more rare (to my areas lfs's) species. A little extra money to help pay for supplies wouldn't hurt.

I'm gonna figure out which are which and then decide what I want to get rid of and what I want to keep. I know the peacocks usually are more colorful.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You don't want to keep breeding groups of peacocks in the same tank. They will crossbreed quite easily. And, once you mix the females, it's impossible to identify them to separate them again.


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