# Tank Size & Stocking...



## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Hey guys, first of all, hello to everyone, awesome to see a forum like this to be a part of! Just got a few questions here. Im planning on keeping african cichlids, but lately have been getting a bit concerned about the tank capacity *** invested in and my fish ending up fighting with each other. I have a 70cmL x 40cmD x 50cmH / 140Litres or about 38 gallons. What would your advice be regarding the types of africans i should keep, and the general amount i should not go over to keep this a "happy community" so to speak.

*** read a bit about overstocking and how this can also help prevent fighting, what are your opinions on that for my size tank? At the moment the tank is busy getting itself balanced out in terms of PH levels etc, so im not gna be adding fish for another week at least, thought id take the time to speak to some of you experienced keepers about this so I do things properly.

Regards,
African Keeper


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You _are_ pretty limited with that tank size. I wouldn't house any of the Malawi cichlids in a tank with those dimensions.

You might get away with a breeding pair of N. brichardi, some of the Tanganyikan shell dwellers, or some of the dwarf SA cichlids.


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Dam, so you rekon im gna be limited to a pair of cichlids max? the guy at the store i got the tank from said 10 - 14????


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The tank is a bit over 2 feet in length. I don't even think you could get away with 10-14 shelldwellers as adults!

Be careful which species you try to pair off, too! You'll have to go with Tanganyikans or SA dwarves!


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Dam, this is a bit of a let down, cant believe the guy at the store has done this. Although I must say, the idea of a matched pair is quite appealing in itself.


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

Wait a minute, I had a 38 gallon and I remember it being 3 feet long.
Are you sure you have a 38 gallon africankeeper?
I don't really claim to have the most experience with stocking but shot in the dark, Cichlidaholic, could africankeeper try a small group of smaller less aggressive mbuna? Maybe a trio of Yellow labs or Rusties or even Acei.
I mean, I know it isn't recommended or suggested but with some strategic rock formations and creative aquascaping ideas it might be possible.
I would do it with the 38 gallon I used to have but that footprint seems different then I am firmiliar with.


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Well base don conversions *** done using online calculators, the size of my tanks length, depth and height gives me 140litres, which is aparently 37 gallons or so. Here are some photos of my rock formations so far:



PS: From what I could tell from the other tanks in teh store, this seems to be slightly higher and wider than a standard 2ft tank, correct me if im wrong though.

Oh and incase ur wandering about the size in feet:

2.2 Long, 1.6 High, 1.3 Deep


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Anyone else able to offer some help on this, maybe if a mod can move it to the tank setup area instead?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

smellsfishy1 said:


> Wait a minute, I had a 38 gallon and I remember it being 3 feet long.


The length of the tank is stated at 70 cm...Not 3 feet.


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> smellsfishy1 said:
> 
> 
> > Wait a minute, I had a 38 gallon and I remember it being 3 feet long.
> ...


Isnt it down to the overall size/water capacity and not just measurement in one direction? so ie, 38gallones = 38gallons regardless of how the ratio's between height and depth are distributed?


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

IMHO, the length is actually the most important dimension when it comes to cichlids.
Aggressions is more easilly dispersed in a long tank as opposed to a deep or a tall one.
Since these fish hang out at the bottom and do not utilize the top half of the aquarium, the bottom half becomes congested and crowded therefor the length becomes the critical factor in territorty.
If you had a tank that was longer you would have many more options.
You often see many start with a minimum of a 55 gallon or 207L for africans because the aggression they display as they grow and mature.
The actual volume doesn't seem to make as big an impact as you might think, the dimensions with a large emphasis on the length seem to be the deciding factor.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The water volume is nowhere near as important as the "footprint" of the tank that you have to offer, at least with cichlids. They are highly territorial fish, especially once sexually mature, and the floorspace of a tank must be enough to divide up between the fish you choose to keep.

They really don't care what's going on in the upper portions of the tank!


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Wow, im in absolute shock that the guy at the aquarium store has not mentioned any of this to me, and told me I could get 10 - 12 fish in this tank. :x

In regards to a matched pair how would you guys go about it?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

A matched pair of what?


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Anything, im basically looking for some advice on what I can do with this tank. Would you go for non-africans in my case maybe? Or if i go africans, would you recommend a matched pair for my tank size or not, and if so, which ones? Im still really new to this, and am wanting experienced advice, I want to make sure I do this all properly and make the best decision based on my tank.


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

What about a matched pair of:

Pseudotropheus saulosi

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1


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## eL Chupy (Aug 6, 2007)

about.... 27 inches X 15 inches X 19nches... i don't function with metric system.. :lol:

most of the african cichlids aren't 'pairing' fish. they are harem breeders requiring several females per male. some of the tanganykan cichlids are pairing fish, but I'm not sure as to which would fit in this tank size... perhaps some of the shell dwellers...ooops... just read back into this thread and saw Kim already suggested those :wink:

_Pseudotropheus saulosi _ although labeled as a dwarf, I think still would create problems in anything less than a 3 ft tank...(91.44 centimeters :lol: )


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Cool thanks for the advice, and yes i get a bit pedantic about my measurements, lol. Anyway, from what I can gather im looking into tanganyikans then. As for the matched pair idea:

I read that apparently the female Cynotilapia afra ( http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1675 ) "are non-territorial and form large schools in mid-water and feed on the plankton together during the day hours"

What if i was to get one male, and about 3 females?


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## eL Chupy (Aug 6, 2007)

most likely not. I tried just about every fish I could get my hands on in a 3 foot tank, and nothing worked.... granted I never tried any of the dwarf species, but I think 2 feet is really pushing it on the amount of space available...

my kids have a planted 20 gallon with 2 Bolivian Rams along with some black skirt tetras. really beautiful tank, except I keep having to replace plants every so often cause we can kill just about anything green in a matter of days :lol:


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## Doane (Jun 19, 2007)

Africankeeper, I hate to be the kill joy here, but what I would recommend is looking around on some sort of local trader site. I don't know how great craigslist is in australia or if you have something better. I generally never buy my tanks from stores, you end up paying waaaayyy more than you had to in the first place.

Also, NEVER trust anyone from the lfs. They are generally people who (rightfully so) have not kept all fish and most of them are, in my experience, very misinformed regarding Cichlds. I overheard someone saying that two adult oscars could stay in a 30g. In reality it would take more like a 125 or more.


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Sigh, ok, what if i got that 3 females to one male, but got them when they are still small, and in about 6 months or so get a bigger tank??


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## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

Doane is being a little harsh IMO, though some LFS employees are basically retarded(regarding knowledge of fish) there are some great people out there, you just have to get lucky.

The only mbuna i could think of(potentially) working would be a trio(1m 2f) of Rusties. They stay small and are the most peaceful of all mbuna(IME).

But i would stick to the smaller tang. cichlids like shell dwellers.


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks for the advice, think its aparent i need a bigger tank, but im gonna make do with what *** got now, il get juveniles and get a bigger tank in a few months time I think.


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## eL Chupy (Aug 6, 2007)

and this my friends... is how it all begins. in a few months you buy a bigger tank, then you wake up one morning and think to yourself it's still not big enough, then you go buy another one, and realize that if you only had the next size bigger you could fit just one more species that you _really really_ like, and before you know it, you've run out of room to put tanks up and still can't stop yourself from searching craigslist in the middle of the night because there just might be a real good deal on another tank, but you've even run out of room in your garage because you have empty tanks in there that you just can't get rid of, even though you don't know where to put them, and think of selling your couch because that would be a perfect spot..... ***sigh***.... :lol: multiple tank syndrome MTS

true story...

just watch your fish, and remember that in a few months things can change and the ability to get a bigger tank may no longer be available.... life is life, and stuff happens. and some times fish don't want to wait a few months for you to upgrade. in the long run, I think you'd be very happy with a larger tank.


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

LOL! Sounds like my bank accounts in trouble now. Well i went and got 4 fish today, got 3 females and one male of Cynotilapia Afra (all about 2" in size). The three females seem to get along really well, they can all occupy one cave and none of them get "upset", the male has taken hold of the main cave in the tank though, and gives the females a little lunge scare to get them away from his cave if they come too close. Theres basically a cave per cichlid and an extra 2 cave like areas they seem to like, and most of the time the females are either all in one of them or theres two in one cave and the other one in another. Now to start looking for a new tank, lol.


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## eL Chupy (Aug 6, 2007)

if you want the best sucess with malawis shoot for a 4 foot 55 gallon minimum...preferably even larger than that. I just moved my occupants from a 4 footer to a 5 foot tank and wow!... it's visually stunning...plus I got to buy new fish :wink: :lol:

do you happen to know which varient of afra you got? I have never been able to locate them locally. seen a few 'clown afra' females, but have yet to see a male


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks for the reply. Im definitely gna be getting a bigger tank in about 2 months when *** got some money saved up, and a 4 foot long is what il be looking for, hopefully bigger though as you say. The variant I got is Cobwe as far as I can remember, was unaware of "variants" but now that u mention it I remember Cobwe being on the tank, read something like: C. Afra (Cobwe), would that be the variant in brackets??


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## eL Chupy (Aug 6, 2007)

correct... the varient is actually the geographical collection point. C afra has a wide distribution with different color variations coming from different locations. the librayry on this site is a great resource. here's a link to the maps and you can see where this guy originally comes from..

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... s_list.php


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## AfricanKeeper (Oct 26, 2008)

Ohk awesome thank for that, been getting so confused with all these weird names, makes some sense now!

Btw, the 4 fish I put into the tank yesterday aren't doing much tank swimming, theyre all kinda hiding in the caves, is this normal till they get used to the new territory and tank? Just worried that its got to do with the tank size or something *** done wrong. *** tested the water, got a PH of 8, Nitrate, Nitrite and Amonia are at 0. Water temps are about 24 - 26 celsius.


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## fishlover01 (Aug 11, 2007)

I'd have to dissagree with the above statements. I have a 30 gallon with full grown africans that give each other no problems. But if you're really concerned about following the "rules" I'd go with a trio of polits (if you want to breed, otherwise there guys are pretty mean with other fish) or you could do a setup with some saulosi, these are beautiful in both male and female colorations. Or you could simply continuosly trade out full grown fish for babies. My tank came originally with 9 kenyi, a demasoni, and 2 maramalds. I've learned since then, but I've still been able to keep africans in my 30 with no problems. Good luck! :thumb:


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## fishlover01 (Aug 11, 2007)

And from my experience, sometimes cichlids will hide out for a day or two, but once they come out, you'll truly enjoy them =)


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