# Feeding - Mixed tank of Herbivore with Carnivores



## KevinArgudin (Feb 21, 2009)

Well I have a tank with a majority of herbivores (Labidochromis sp. "Hongi" (SRT) ,Pseudotropheus saulosi,Metriaclima lombardoi ) and a couple of Carnivores (Haplochromis sp. "Thick Skin" / 44, Nimbochromis venustus ) given this how can I meet the dietary needs of these fish?

Current feeding pattern:
3-4 feedings a day - what they can eat in 30-40 Seconds
2 kinds of flake - Tetra Cichlid flake and a sperilla flake / vegetable flake food. 
Always feeding the vegetable based flake and the Tetra Cichlid once a day

Any thoughts?


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

New Life Spectrum sinking pellets will work for both types of diets.


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

+1 NLS...1MM is the only food i use with the occasional veggie or brine shrimp treat


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I would also cut back the feedings to twice a day, max. :thumb:


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## KevinArgudin (Feb 21, 2009)

cichlidaholic said:


> I would also cut back the feedings to twice a day, max. :thumb:


I thought this was in contradiction to a library article "http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_african_cichlids.php"

Where Mark states "If you have several fish in the same tank, it will be important for you to feed them several times a day. Don't continue to feed them the same amount that you have been, but cut it back. For example, I try to feed my fish 3-4 times a day, but only what they can consume in 20-30 seconds or less. By following this routine you will find that your cichlids will tend to be less aggressive. Remember, because cichlids are avaricious (e.g., borderline obnoxious) eaters, they can consume a great deal of food in 30 seconds. "

I'm also trying to control aggression in the tank and minimize nipping. I don't like fish with tattered fins! Then I have to move them or provide more places to hide


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

It may be contradictory to the article in the library, but overfeeding increases your risk of digestive problems, i.e. bloat, intestinal blockage, etc..

You won't find very many people who agree to feeding them more than twice a day, and in most cases, once a day is preferred.

Overfeeding _might_ decrease aggression in that it will make the fish overweight and lazy, but the real way to decrease aggression is by properly stocking the tank to start with.

If you've got too much aggression in your tank, I would look at my stock list first. Don't take the risk of overfeeding them. :thumb:


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## KevinArgudin (Feb 21, 2009)

Ahhh. the quintessential dilemma; how to house the desired fish in the confines of a tank (80 gal in my case) and have them live healthy, stress free lives. True enough *cichlidaholic* I don't want to over feed them and I don't want to change the stock (just yet). It's been 12 years since I had a tank and this time around I want the tank to flourish. I won't be happy until I see each of the fish breed letting me know they are healthy / happy tank members.

I'll heed the advice to cut back on feedings, but as it is the little beggars appear starving. Every time I walk by they eagerly look for food.

Thanks for the advice


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

:wink:

They are ALWAYS starving! Beggars, they are...And they seem to have us trained at times!

What is your full stock list? Have you been able to determine your male/female ratio yet? That might be your aggression problem.

Of course, the two larger species might be reacting to the smaller tank area, if they are your problems.

Food wise, NLS, Dainichi and Hikari all make excellent balanced foods for both herbivores and carnivores...I rarely go with an all veggie diet unless the only species I have in a tank are herbivores. I did do this for a tank of demasoni and a tank of Tropheus, but for the most part, they all get the same food. Just be really careful to stay away from any foods that contain protein from warm blooded animals, and don't feed any bloodworms and you'll be fine.

Should you switch them to a pellet type food, make the transition slowly! I've had bad results in doing it too quickly!


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## KevinArgudin (Feb 21, 2009)

Sure here is the stock list:
Pseudotropheus saulosi: - 2 Male ~ 2" 4 Female ranging from 1-2"
Labidochromis caeruleus - 3 TBD (to be determined) sex
Metriaclima lombardoi - 5 TBD Sex ~1-1.5
Haplochromis sp. "Thick Skin" - 2 TBD Sex ~ 2"
Nimbochromis venustus - 1 TBD Sex ~1.5" 
Labidochromis sp. "Hongi" (SRT) - 3 Sex TBD ~ 1.5" May not be this type of fish as on the tank at the fish store they were labled "Hap Lap Hongi" but the juveniles do look like the right fish
Adonas Pleco - 1 ~ 2"

+1 Mistory golden yellow fish I think is a Metriaclima lombardoi female but I'm not sure.

all sitting in the 80gal tank, with lots of filters

I have read that food transitions should be done slow and will migrate slowly when I do go to pellets. right now I do have some "no-name" pellets but they are too large for the fish to eat.


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## KevinArgudin (Feb 21, 2009)

I'm trying to keep the fish all about the same size. The Venustus was a mess up, my kids wanted it so I had no choice, the Pleco well what can I say it was a nice looking thing and I didn't want a common black monster.


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## KevinArgudin (Feb 21, 2009)

I anticipate issues from the Venustis and 44 banging heads once they get bigger I also expect that the kenyi may be an issue once they are large enough to start to compete for territory. I'm in the process of getting a 55Gal up to handle this but I'm hopping not to use it unless it is for breeding.


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## bma57 (Sep 16, 2007)

KevinArgudin said:


> I anticipate issues from the Venustis and 44 banging heads once they get bigger ...


Just anecdotal, but I have one male Venustus and one male 44 and have had no problem between them so far. There is a huge size difference though. The Venustus is a good 6" while the 44 seems to have topped out around 3". I've had it close to a year and have seen almost no growth, so there doesn't seem to be much debate as to who's the "boss".


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Okay...I do see some problem areas that will add to your aggression issues.

The mystery gold fish can't be a female kenyi...Females are blue, males are yellow. (All young ones are blue, like mom.)

With the saulosi, you don't need two males. You're better off having one or three, but if you have three, you'll need at least 2 females per male. With two male and only 4 females, you're going to see problems between those two males, and neither may colour up like you want them to as full adults. (With 3 males the aggression gets distributed a bit better.)

Yellow labs fare better kept in larger groups of 5 or 6. Your male/female ratio won't matter much with them.

The kenyi can always be problematic in smaller sized tanks. They are considered one of the most aggressive mbuna. Should you decide to keep them long term, I wouldn't have more than one male, but keep in mind that females can be equally aggressive.

There is a risk of crossbreeding between the two Labidochromis species. To reduce this risk, you want to make sure you have male and females of both species.

The venustus and thick lip are questionable, but I think both are too small to be a problem right now. They may be problematic with other spawns in the tank once mature, though, because they aren't being kept in breeding groups, so they will be bored. You could also have a problem if both the thick lips are males.

Just some things to watch out for...

Ideally, I wouldn't want more than 3 species in this size tank for breeding purposes. So if you're not into the breeding aspect of the hobby, you might consider going with an all male tank. :thumb:


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## KevinArgudin (Feb 21, 2009)

Since I asked these questions the tank has done well. No deaths or illness and the aggression I was concerned about seems to have all but gone away. I don't have fish nipping at each other, I don't see much in the way of anything but happy fish.

well almost no death or illness
the pleco died a couple of weeks after this post because I added a trio of Chinese algae eaters and they cleaned up the tank so well the poor fella died. mind you I don't have an algae issue at all.

And my other post on the fish who I think must be egg bound or prolapsed is looking strange but acting fine. Been in this state for a week now I expect she'll be cat food soon. The size of the mass is not going down.

About a month or two back I noticed some heavy digging by a number of the fish. Some started to show the effects of digging and generally the fish really started to color up and I noticed a marked change in some fish.

The Labidochromis sp. "Hongi" have definetly spawned in this tank and I now see 1" fish every once and a while poking heads out. I added some more places to hide so they don't get eaten just yet.

I also see the Pseudotropheus saulosi routing around for a home and I expect they will breed soon.

The Venustus is getting big and I have seen him gobble up some smaller fish I added (knowing he would eat them up). I may have to find a new home for this one.

The Metriaclima lombardoi are also bright blue and yellow/orange and I see them trying to establish some territory and a hole to hide.


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