# New to cichlids....any special requirements for angels,rams?



## dogdoc (Jan 25, 2006)

So I'm changing my 75 gal planted community tank over to a SA cichlid theme. Would like to have a pair or two of angels and some bolivian rams as well.

So excuse the newbie questions, but I would like to make sure that I'm good to go for my angels before they arrive. Specifically, are there any special dietary requirements or care instructions I should be aware of? Recommend a good food for angels and rams. I currently use Omega one color flakes and Tetra color pellets for my community along with 1-2x week frozen mix of bloodworms, daphnia, cyclops.

Tank is mature (3yr), well planted, soft water (kH 1-2, gH 2) and C02 injected, so the pH is <6.


----------



## Voodoo Chilli (Jun 29, 2004)

A varied diet of quality foods will do the trick. I use frozen, freeze-dried, and Hikari and NLS pellets (Omega is great stuff but I can't get it in my area anymore).


----------



## ginner (May 23, 2008)

dogdoc said:


> So I'm changing my 75 gal planted community tank over to a SA cichlid theme. Would like to have a pair or two of angels and some bolivian rams as well.
> 
> So excuse the newbie questions, but I would like to make sure that I'm good to go for my angels before they arrive. Specifically, are there any special dietary requirements or care instructions I should be aware of? Recommend a good food for angels and rams. I currently use Omega one color flakes and Tetra color pellets for my community along with 1-2x week frozen mix of bloodworms, daphnia, cyclops.
> 
> Tank is mature (3yr), well planted, soft water (kH 1-2, gH 2) and C02 injected, so the pH is <6.


That sounds fine but the angels will do better in water that is slightly harder (say dH 5-8) and with a higher pH (6.5-7). Not that I think you'll have any problems, it's just that angels don't need the water too soft or too acidic.


----------



## dogdoc (Jan 25, 2006)

I don't actually try to get the water that soft, it's just what comes out of the tap here. I don't like to mess with it a whole lot as far as pH, KH, GH go other than a little bit of GH booster to make sure there is enough CA and MG. And the acidic part is just a result of the CO2 in such low KH/pH water.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

_dogdoc *Joined: 25 Jan 2006* Location: Sheridan, WY_

*New to cichlids*....any special requirements for angels,rams?

:lol:

Just how _new_ to cichlids.


----------



## dogdoc (Jan 25, 2006)

New, as in never had cichlids before. Have been keeping fish for about 4 years now.

Yes, I did join here a while ago, doing some research, but I like to be thorough. I was at one time considering a Mbuna setup for my 75 so I was doing some digging about them. I hadn't actually considered Angels for my tank until just recently. I thought I pretty much had all my bases covered, but I thought I might pick up a few hints and tips before they actually arrived.

But I feel a little defensive right now. Do I really have to defend myself for asking that question? Is it that bad? If so, then I apologize.


----------



## sherlock98 (Sep 9, 2006)

dogdoc said:


> New, as in never had cichlids before. Have been keeping fish for about 4 years now.
> 
> Yes, I did join here a while ago, doing some research, but I like to be thorough. I was at one time considering a Mbuna setup for my 75 so I was doing some digging about them. I hadn't actually considered Angels for my tank until just recently. I thought I pretty much had all my bases covered, but I thought I might pick up a few hints and tips before they actually arrived.
> 
> But I feel a little defensive right now. Do I really have to defend myself for asking that question? Is it that bad? If so, then I apologize.


I know how you feel, there have been a few times where I have posted and people make you feel like a knob for asking, if they even reply. It seems like unless you are posting all the time, the regulars don't have time for you. This is just my experience in this forum.


----------



## CHK (Jan 12, 2007)

dogdoc said:


> New, as in never had cichlids before. Have been keeping fish for about 4 years now.
> 
> Yes, I did join here a while ago, doing some research, but I like to be thorough. I was at one time considering a Mbuna setup for my 75 so I was doing some digging about them. I hadn't actually considered Angels for my tank until just recently. I thought I pretty much had all my bases covered, but I thought I might pick up a few hints and tips before they actually arrived.
> 
> But I feel a little defensive right now. Do I really have to defend myself for asking that question? Is it that bad? If so, then I apologize.


I believe DFF questioned your introduction to cichlids in a light-hearted manner. He has been very helpful to forum members with questions. I suspect your "newness" to cichlids contrasted with your fairly extensive knowledge of whats involved in water conditioning  . Even I found it a little amusing :roll:

As for angels and rams, IME, they are not too picky on the food. I personally like Omega One, though I use their Cichlid line of flakes. Not sure if a ph <6 is a little on the low side. I had kept them at ph of 7.5 without issue. Members with more experience can provide more info.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

CHK said:


> I believe DFF questioned your introduction to cichlids in a light-hearted manner. He has been very helpful to forum members with questions. I suspect your "newness" to cichlids contrasted with your fairly extensive knowledge of whats involved in water conditioning  . Even I found it a little amusing :roll:


Hey sorry *dogdoc*. *CHK* got it spot on. Don't want you getting defensive mate, I was just having one of those days yesterday, where I made quite a lot of _nothing_ posts.

Personally I was having a good laugh as you are clearly an experienced hobbiest, asking to be excused for asking _newbie_ questions as you put it.

Again sorry for cuasing you to doubt posting on the forum.


----------



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

sherlock98 said:


> It seems like unless you are posting all the time, the regulars don't have time for you.


It's a shame you feel that way! I never felt like that when I started out here and I asked a lot of questions that ended up with a straightforward yes or no. You'll probably find that this has something to do with the regulars dealing with many, many, many posts, daily. It takes quite some time and posts sometimes slip through, shoot I have a ton of my own posts that I've forgotten to keep alive.

I'd say most of us here do our best to try and offer extensive and often refined advice, whether you are new or a regular or not is irrelevant, if you present a question, show some initiative and have a good attitude you will get what you asked for. Some people are very plain and straight to the point in their answers but don't take that harshly, they're probably just trying to put their point accross without room for misinterpretation, that's all  (after all they don't know you're age, ability, experience etc).

Don't be discouraged, it's harmless fun, you'd know if they were being awkward, trust me :lol:.


----------



## dogdoc (Jan 25, 2006)

Water under the bridge, mate.

I'm just being my normal obsessive/compulsive self and trying to find a little info out before the fact. I never want to be "that guy" who pops up and asks "hey, why aren't the 5 oscars in my 20gal tank not doing so well?". A little research prior to diving in seems to make things go a little smoother.

And yeah, I consider myself somewhat experienced. But I have spent most of the last 3-4 years trying to learn how to grow aquatic weeds. So not new, just new to caring for cichlids. I just want to give them the best care I can.

But while we are on the subject, can I ask another newb question? I keep going back and forth between Bolivians and GBRs to go in this tank as well. But I hear, and read that GBRs like a tank on the warmer side. Like 84*F. Is this accurate, or is there a little leeway here? How would they do in say 78*F? This may be my deciding factor.


----------



## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I have angels in two planted tanks with either apistos or blue rams. I'm very fond of my blue rams and they are quite beautiful and peaceful. I think I lucked out in my strain as I'm told blue rams can be delicate or short-lived. I've not found that, but you might want to be sure to get good blue rams (if you go that way) perhaps from a local breeder. I found Bolivians obnoxious, but maybe that was just me . . .

Both angel tanks are kept around 78 degrees with no issues.

You've not mentioned if you're planning to have a planted tank. I would recommend it, as angels look particularly stunning swimming through vals and swords IMHO . . .


----------



## dogdoc (Jan 25, 2006)

Oh yes. It is a 75 gal , fully planted, high tech tank.


----------



## dogdoc (Jan 25, 2006)

Oh, and one other thing. With the huge popularity of the Bolivians (ie. the BRC) and the fact that they are supposedly easy to breed, why can I not find a single source to buy some?


----------



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Bolivians are incredibly easy to breed and very boisterous, some find them obnoxious - maybe it's their American cousins, mine are very docile and entertaining  I'm just kidding. No, they are big for their boots sometimes, especially the hyper territorial males and they can be little buggers at times, but then find me a fish that isn't.

I don't know many other fish their size who will fight with my finger if I prod them on the head, who try and rip krill from my fingers, or sit in my cupped hand eating NLS pellets, very personable and funny little Cichlids. My old spawning pair ruled the tank with a then 7" Rotkeil severum (but only during spawning), they aren't shy and congregate along the front pane when you approach them, greeting you and trying their best to get fed. Blues are very pretty but I find them a little dull, they don't seem quite so aware/bright in comparison to their Bolivian cousins, but I'm not going to try and talk you out of your personal taste :lol:. I like them both, personality and for subtle beauty I go with Bolivians hands down, for sheer impressive colour popping I go with Blues, but bear in mind that they will not be _quite_ as colourful in cooler temps.

Example - in KH1.5 GH2-4 pH 5 30C









Example - in KH2 GH4 pH 6.5 28C








You can see even in compromised conditions the spawn size was still impressive, but notice how much duller she is - she is stressed from spawning but in the pic above she had also spawned very recently and you can see how quickly she returned to bright colours - what I'm getting at is that compromised conditions make it that little bit harder on them, so you need to be a little more careful with their tankmates/aquascaping/keeping water pristine etc.

I couldn't say why you can't find Bolivian Rams there, but chances are they'll be Asian farm bred anyway, which you really want to avoid (hormoned to increase growth etc, if you went on my site you'll have read about that anyway). Check out your local fish clubs, local bred Rams (of any kind) are the only real way to go, unless you can get German or Czech bred. Many reportedly are seeing increasing problems with Czech stock but I have to say I've never had a single issue and most of my fish are Czech/German bred (German bred being the best farmed fish IMO).

Hollyfish has pointed out that if you want Blue Rams you really need to find a good source, you guys out there seem to have a harder time of it than here in the UK, I haven't had a Blue Ram that was weak or diseased yet, but again I only buy German/Czech stock, if I can't get local. Blue Rams aren't that hard to keep alive once you've got an already healthy specimen to work with. They do tolerate pH up to 7 (and I know of others who have kept them in 7.8 but I don't recommend it) so your tap will be fine, softer is better - I kept mine in a KH of 1.5, GH 3-4, pH 5, 30C, really optimal parameters for them and they pop with colour, are very active and spawn frequently in such conditions.

They will adapt fairly well to "average" (by that I mean a middle ground average) water parameters that suit your other fish - you are making a compromise on their behalf though, so bear that in mind - ie obviously not many fish can tolerate 30C temps for the longevity of the Blue Rams, so when I housed mine with others temporarily, I kept the temp at 28C, KH 2 GH 4 pH 6.5 and they weren't quite as colourful, but no health problems arose and they still spawned fairly regularly. So basically your tap water is fine if that's a route you decide to take, but I do urge you to avoid Asian farm bred and to try to source local or Czech/German stock.


----------

