# are UGJ's worth all the set up?



## gusto (Jan 7, 2003)

Hello,
I'm setting up a 150 gallon tank and I'm wondering if UGJ's are worth all the set up, I know it doesn't seem that difficult, but from what I'm reading some people do have trouble with the layout, the flow rate, the angles of the pipe, covering the pipe with sand and also just keeping in leveled. I'm not a wonderful DIY person so I dont want to make something that might end up being a problem especially when it's covered with rock.

Thanks gus


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## ashilli48 (May 14, 2006)

I don't currently have any but from what I've read the biggest factor is powerful enough heads. Don't skimp on the power!


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## blueinfinity (Jul 17, 2003)

actually

I just did my first UGJ setup

The putting it togethor was UBER simple

As long as your doing it from scratch, run a power head and your set

no glueing or siliconing or anything. super easy really!


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## Britnick (Apr 18, 2008)

Easy to do, easy to maintain - great results. I'm not a great DIYer either but I had no problems and given the help there is on this forum, worth having a go :thumb:


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

Those are typical concerns, but there are simple methods that I used and I have had nothing but success with mine. 
As far as layout goes, you need to decide on the number of jets you want. The amount of jets will determine the size of pump(s) you need. With the size of your tank, I would do at least 8 jets, but probably 10-12. I prefer to have between 100 and 170 gph per jet. So for 10 jets at 150 gph each you would need a pump rated at 1500 gph. I have a single closed loop layout running 6 jets in my 55 powered by a single Rio 2100. The flow is perfect, mathematically I should have about 130 gph at each jet, but some are more powerful than others. I would consider doing 2 closed loops with 6 jets each. This would require at least 2 pumps. The basic layout I would use would be 6 jets evenly spaced along the front pointed to the back. Then one jet in the middle of each side pointed to the middle of the tank and one jet at each rear corner pointing into the corner. The placement of last pair of jets would depend on where your pumps would go. If you put them in the center of the back side of each loop, put a jet at the inside corner of each loop. The other option would be to reverse the pump and last jet placement which would put the pumps in the center at the back of the tank. I would opt for the latter. Keep in mind that the jets closer to the pump will be more powerful that the ones further away. You could go with a single closed loop with one or 2 pumps depending on what size pump you get.

I have had the most success with the jets angled between 30* and 45*. Less than 30* and you stir up too much sand and greater that 45* and it creates too much up current.

For covering the pipes with sand I use about a sand bed at least 2" thick to start with. Your fish will move the sand around making piles and pits. With about 2" of sand, my pipes remain covered most of the time.

A trick that I used to keep the pipes burried was to use cable ties to attach them to eggcrate. It is simple and works great.

Another tip, since you say you aren't the best DIY person, is to get a good pvc cutter. I use the regular rotary pipe cutter since it is what I've got, but the shear kind is better and easier to use.

There is also no need to glue the pipes together. They are more than adequately secured when "dry" fit. Plus it gives you the option to change it up down the road without having to cut the pipe and buy new connectors.

My opinion is that it is worth doing, it is easy to do, and as long as you don't try to cut corners it should be worry/maintainance free. With the exception of rinsing the prefilter with each water change.

I say GO FOR IT!


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

I have been thinking about doing this with my 46 bow but I am worried about to much flow and turbulence. Does anyone ever hit any problems with to much flow?


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## gusto (Jan 7, 2003)

Thank you Everyone for your input, I'm going to give it a try. and take my time. I did set up a sump for this tank when it was saltwater ( which is a whole other DIY project I'm starting now trying to convert a 30 gallon sump to a wet/dry trickle filter with buckets). that was part of my problem, I was kinda trying to due alot of DIY projects with this tank. also stickzula thank you for all the layout suggestions, I was think about doing a single closed loop system with 8 jets with a mag 12 pump. I just wanted to keep only 1 pump in the tank to keep heat down.


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## afoctober2 (Apr 7, 2007)

looks simple to set up in a empty tank but an established tank wouldn't be easy at least i'd imagine .I'd have to remove rocks and move sand


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## greenbirds (Jul 30, 2007)

Word of advice; figure out some way keep them on the bottom of the tank. Silicone? Tie wraps to the eggcrate? I made the mistake of lifting mine up after I had 150 lbs of gravel and a bunch of rock in there. The gravel shifted underneath, and now part of the PVC is visible on the surface. You'll never be able to get the tubing back down.


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## narhay (Feb 28, 2007)

I had it for a little while. It's not as great as it's cracked up to be. First of all, you have your outlets: The fish cover them with sand, and your rocks can never go in front of them which means you are limited in your aquascaping. Second, I find that it pushes the detritus up somewhat, but it still finds somewhere else to land. Third, the outlets stick out of the sand and the tubes are inevitably uncovered. Finally, the pumps require a lot of electricity. For my 150 gallon, it was 80W of power running non-stop just for some extra flow on the bottom. I would suggest a koralia powerhead or tunze nano-stream. Does a similar job for less wattage and headache.


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## gusto (Jan 7, 2003)

thanks those were a few things I was worried about, and it not like it's easy to install or take apart after the tank is set up


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

The advantage of the UGJ is esthetics. They hide the mechanics so the tank looks more natural even if power is wasted and change is more of an inconvenience.

The people to look to for answers on this would be the ones who have a critical need to blow detritus away from their tank stuff. That would be people with coral growout (frag) tanks. Instead of using UGJ they use powerheads with the jet directly attached. Every foot of pipe, every bend, causes friction that reduces the power of the pump, so UGJ design wastes power and energy. They are not as easy to change when a spot in the tank seems to be building up detritus. With a powerhead jet, you just move it.


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## afoctober2 (Apr 7, 2007)

I hate to take get away from someone elses post but wouldn't a good air pump and flexible bubble wands do just as good with a lot less power use. If the purpose is to get the waste to move up to the filters i've seen tanks with air pumps and it moves waste from the water.


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

I don't have UGJ in my 90 gallon, and I don't regret not putting them in. The sand in front of the rocks stays clean with properly placed filters, and I'd need 20 jets to have a chance at keeping it clean underneath the big pile of rocks. I'm gonna have one heck of a mess when I take down the rock pile (been putting that task off  ), but my biggest problem in keeping the tank clean is from algae, not fish poo.


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## parkayandbutter (Jan 15, 2008)

They work if you do it as it's intended point blank. Your limited once in place unless you re do it again. I didn't glue the PVC, so in that case mine has been done several times as needed.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

narhay said:


> I had it for a little while. It's not as great as it's cracked up to be. First of all, you have your outlets: The fish cover them with sand, and your rocks can never go in front of them which means you are limited in your aquascaping. Second, I find that it pushes the detritus up somewhat, but it still finds somewhere else to land. Third, the outlets stick out of the sand and the tubes are inevitably uncovered. Finally, the pumps require a lot of electricity. For my 150 gallon, it was 80W of power running non-stop just for some extra flow on the bottom. I would suggest a koralia powerhead or tunze nano-stream. Does a similar job for less wattage and headache.


I would have to agree with this assessment. I think the expectation is set too high on this set for UGJ's. After having them in my tank I am 51% pro and 49% against UGJ's. The reason's against were already stated by narhay.

For example, the other day there was a large poop in the water, and because of its size it was easy to watch. Basically it floated around the tank like 20 times before getting stuck behind a rock. It came close to the filter several times with no luck. I think one problem is that the filter intakes are not very strong compared to the current created by the UGJ. I think a better adaptation would be creating more flow into the filter.

I am also wondering if the result in my tank is that the poop just gets moved behind all my rocks. So the sand is clean but I have a pile of waste in all the places I can't clean without rearranging the tank.

I also don't like the way they look and the way they disrupt the sand substrate. I also don't like the limitations for placing rocks, plants, etc. I also don't like the noise of the pumps. I also don't like the added heat to the tank water.

There are two things I do like about them. I like that they provide added water flow. Especially since right now I only have a cannister filter. They do help create water movement at the surface of the water. It also seems that the fish like them. They spend a lot of time either sitting right in front of the jets or surfing in the current.


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Very interesting views about UGJ's - both for and against.

What would peoples thoughts be on these ideas then:

If one were just using HOB's on the tank, then using powerheads, e.g. like the Power Sweep's, and no UGJ's is a good choice.

If using cannister filter's and/or wet & dry filter's, then using UGJ's is a good choice.


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## christopherhicks (Jun 18, 2007)

Well if you don't like the way they look couldn't you just place small rocks in front of them so that you cannot see them


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