# Demasoni Breeding Question



## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

Hey all. Just a few quick q's...

How well do demasoni do in species only tanks?
What can I feed the fry?
When should I separate the fry from their mothers?
What is the average # of fry per spawn?
How often do they spawn?
Do they like lots of flow, or slower?
Thanks :thumb: :dancing: :dancing:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Mobius1230 said:


> How well do demasoni do in species only tanks?


Great!



Mobius1230 said:


> What can I feed the fry?


Crushed adult food or NLS Growth Formula.



Mobius1230 said:


> When should I separate the fry from their mothers?


Day 2 after spitting.



Mobius1230 said:


> What is the average # of fry per spawn?


Around ten for a mature Mom.



Mobius1230 said:


> How often do they spawn?


Every other month.



Mobius1230 said:


> Do they like lots of flow, or slower?


Lots of filtration, but not necessarily just flow.


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

Do females need recovery time after spawning?
Are the fish hard to catch? (If so, tips would be great :thumb: )
How long (after spawning) before the mother's spit their fry?

Thanks for the help. :dancing:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

In order:
Not usually.
Yes. You most often have to remove all rocks/decor.
28 days.


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

Ok, thanks. Will rearranging the rocks be bad for the fish?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Not usually...not like Tangs if that's why you are concerned. If you do it every month to remove holding females, it won't be a problem. If you do it once a year, the balance of your tank might change (for better or worse) as the fish fight to re-establish territories.

A lot of us keep breeder tanks with easy to remove decor and show tanks where we let the Mom's spit in the tank and don't try to catch anyone unless they are sick.

Some people have luck with catching them in the middle of the night when they are sleeping, but that has never worked for me.


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

Thanks for the help :dancing:


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

Ok, I'm resurrecting this thread for a few more questions.

1 What size of tank should I keep for selling some fish to LFS and maybe people that come see me? (Not huge, something I could do in a basement. I just want to do this mostly for my enjoyment, and a little money doesn't hurt either  )

2 How many fish should I keep in the tank?

3 How many males will spawn in a tank that size (referring to the answer of question 1)?
The reason I ask this (#3) is because I've read that the dominant males don't let the subdominant males spawn.

Thanks for the advise so far.

Mobius


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You mean like the smallest possible tank? A lot of people have success with a 36" tank and 12 Demasoni. I didn't but a lot of people do.

I'd say multiple males would spawn in that tank, but it's pretty hard to keep track. With 12 Demasoni you don't worry about the m:f ratio.

To raise fry for the LFS you need multiple tanks. The adults will eat the fry, and older fry will eat younger fry so you need to separate them. And if you want to keep a steady supply maturing, you'd probably need at least 2 fry tanks in addition to your "show" tank. Maybe a 10G for the babies and a 20G for the older fry. Plus a hospital tank.


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

Ya that's what I'm thinkin of doin.


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

DJRansome said:


> You mean like the smallest possible tank? A lot of people have success with a 36" tank and 12 Demasoni. I didn't but a lot of people do.


I was actually thinkin of a 4' tank. Maybe a 55. How many demasoni for one that size?

And also, I was also interested in breeding some Labidochromis and Labeotropheus too. They would also go in a 55. What kind of numbers and m-f ratio should I have with either?


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## danhoy (Feb 10, 2008)

I had 2 55 gallon 4ft tanks. Both had demasoni, yellow labs, and aceis. I had 12 to 14 dems, 6 yellows, and 5 Aceis. My labs were 4 f 2 males and I just sold 40+ fry and have another 20 to small to sell in my grow outs now. My dems I don't really know my male female ratio, less inmportant but probably about 50/50. I just sold 70 dems fry and have another 25 or so to small to sell yet. My aceis hadn't breed in the 55 or when separated by themselves in a 29 gallon. I recently combined both 55's into a 150 and less than a week later I got a acei holding (guess I they needed a larger tank not segregation).

I believe if you provide certain conditions breeding will happen more than you can handle. I provide about 60% of tank in rocks in caves pattern. Basically almost the entire bottom at least halfway up. I also do weekly water change and have good water conditions. I also don't like to pull holding moms as its alot of tear down. I use river peeble for substrate and use larger peeble to make spit piles. I've never pulled a dem mom holding. I just pull the fry every 60- 90 days when I do a total tank cleaning. The yellows I do the same with , although I do occasionally pull a holding mom during a water change if I can without to much effort. Dem fry seem to survive better than yellow fry.

Good luck and enjoy they are a blast.


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

danhoy said:


> I do a total tank cleaning.


I'm sorry, this is really nooby  By this do you mean that you take all the rocks out and you just catch the fry?

Thanks so much for the post. I found it really helpful.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think he means he takes all the rocks out to do a total cleaning and while the rocks are out he catches all the holding Moms. They either get stripped of fry and put back, or they get moved to a maternity tank until they are ready to spit.

Really hard to catch the fry once they are spit, plus the adult fish will eat them instantly so there will be only one/two left to catch.


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

Alright, Any answers to my question earlier


> I was also interested in breeding some Labidochromis and Labeotropheus too. They would also go in a 55. What kind of numbers and m-f ratio should I have with either?


Thanks so far


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

Oh, sorry I didn't articulate this more, but how many demasoni (species only) for a 55?


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## danhoy (Feb 10, 2008)

I would suggest 12 to 14 dems for a 4ft 55 gallon tank. I do pull holding moms when doing a full cleaning, but I also usually pull from 30 to 50 fry out of my gravel and from under my rocks. I know most say fry get eaten but I evidently have lots of luck or really good set up because I have tons survive in tank.

I have mid size river peeble as substrate with spit piles of large river peeble. My rock piles sit on top of this creating tons of hiding in the crack. I literally when doing a total cleaning find 50 plus fry between yellows and labs. I do these total cleaning about every 90 days could go longer but love harvest all the babies lol.


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## football mom (Feb 19, 2006)

I came up with an easier way to catch a fish. My 55 have rock groups with a slight separation between each group. I note where the target fish is hiding, slide one of those plastic tank dividers in between a rock group, and then only have to remove the rocks in that one area. it makes is easier to net the target fish, too, as it doesn't have such a large area to flee.
It has worked well for me so far.


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

football mom said:


> I came up with an easier way to catch a fish. My 55 have rock groups with a slight separation between each group. I note where the target fish is hiding, slide one of those plastic tank dividers in between a rock group, and then only have to remove the rocks in that one area. it makes is easier to net the target fish, too, as it doesn't have such a large area to flee.
> It has worked well for me so far.


 Good idea. Thanks


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## kerbchek (Apr 1, 2008)

danhoy said:


> I've never pulled a dem mom holding. I just pull the fry every 60- 90 days when I do a total tank cleaning. The yellows I do the same with


jumping in here... hope nobody minds... I decided on my own to try this method... I'm glad to hear someone else does this. I pulled about 20 fry out of my dem/lab mix tank the other day when I did a major cleaning and removed decorations (actually moved the tank) - I added low lying plants that fry hide in well and some more caves/hiding places - and those low plants are filled with fry... I figured about once every two months I'll clean it again and pull fry... sounds easy... I'm a busy person, I'll get what I can get... the rest is nature... I hope I get enough fry to sell here and there... I'm not in it for the money...


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## malawimix (Oct 8, 2008)

have any of you ever used java moss as cover for the fry? I'm considering putting some in my tank along with pebble piles to see if fry survive.

For those of you who are pulling all these fry from your tanks during cleaning, how big are they? large enough to trade in at the shops or do you have to grow them out in another tank for a while yet?


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## kerbchek (Apr 1, 2008)

malawimix said:


> have any of you ever used java moss as cover for the fry?


I have a small amount of Java moss in all my fry tanks... reason I have a small amount is that's all I have... I recently picked up a zip lock bag of it at an auction... hopefully it'll grow and spread... I connect java moss to the plastic fry plants you can get at the store... I guess the java moss has whatever fry need to survive.

I've had about 40-60 various fry - Demasoni, Acei, & Yellow labs living in my 55 down in the java/plastic fry plants since Wednesday - Friday... Everytime I look, it seems I see more... are the chances of survival pretty good, or will the adults consume them yet...?

I've always had two or three little ones survive and grow to decent size every now and then... but I've wondered if adding the plastic fry plant, more caves, & java moss will help increase the number of survivors...


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

The more rocks, plants & caves you have, the better the chances for fry survival.


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## joker4466 (Oct 10, 2008)

this thread makes me want to get demasoni


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

joker4466 said:


> this thread makes me want to get demasoni


 You should too. They're cool fish. :thumb:


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## joker4466 (Oct 10, 2008)

ok so to be clear a 36''x18x18 is or isn't big enough for a dozen demasoni?
and how many would be ok for a 55g 48''x12''x21''?


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

From what I've read and been told, 12 would be just fine for the 36x18x18 and for the 55, if you wanted to go only demasoni, maybe 20-25.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There are never any guarantees, but 36x18 should be fine for Demasoni. A dozen is the minimum. If you are doing a 55G species tank, 15-20 would be good.


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

They do spawn a lot tho, so if the fry have a place to be raised, or if they have lots of hiding places in the tanks, you could end up with more =D>


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## joker4466 (Oct 10, 2008)

DJRansome said:


> There are never any guarantees, but 36x18 should be fine for Demasoni. A dozen is the minimum. If you are doing a 55G species tank, 15-20 would be good.


WHY A dozen minimum?
if i get 20 ,will some get killed and i'll end up with 12-16 anyways?


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

If you get less, then the males will over-stress the females and sub-dominant males, resulting in one fish eventually. If you get them, don't worry about m-f ratio.


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

Correct, the main reason for getting 12 or more is so that (hopefully) one fish does not get picked on to death. They can get lost in the crowd and get a break from the abuse.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The strategy of "filling" your tank size with Demasoni is as the others have said...to spread aggression...giving you best odds of zero deaths.


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

Here's another question: What is the maximum size difference that can work for fry in the same grow out tank?


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## Super Turtleman (May 21, 2007)

Well, you don't want to put newborn fry with anything older than a couple weeks at most. At a couple weeks, newborn fry end up as a feast for the older ones. I think adults will start to ignore them around the 1" mark...but don't quote me on that.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Anything less than a dozen, there doesn't seem to be enough fish to spread the agression sufficiently and odds are higher for deaths. More than a dozen increases odds of success. With 20 you may even have no deaths...although you may have to remove a beat-up sub-dom male occasionally to avoid it. And the fish will reproduce so you will always have new blood. With 20 there is little chance you will end up with 12-16, but you might end up with 40! :thumb:


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## Mobius1230 (Sep 22, 2008)

Ok cool. How about this: How long does it take for fry to reach the 1" mark?


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