# Adding Baking soda,ep. salt,reg. salt



## lawnmowerman219 (Jan 22, 2009)

Hi all, I'm a brand new cichlid fan and I've been reading for weeks. I have learned so much! THANK ALL OF YOU  ! I'm setting up two new 75G tanks for the first time. I'm using Ehimes 2026 along with emp. 400 filters. I've cut the top of the Emp. 400 filter carteridge and removed the carbon and put in a small amout of ehime substraight. When the filter wears out I'll re-use the same sub-straight in the new filter cartridge. In the gray plastic media trays I've cut fluval 303 sponge filter into strips to help filter out the big stuff. The first tank is in the cycle stage wk 2. Temp. is 78, PH is 7.6, Amm. 0, nitrate 0. Have to get a kit to check GH/KH. I have just put in 6 Zeb. Dan. for the cycle. I'm wondering how to add the Baking soda, Ep. salt, and non id salt. How does this sound? Every other day add 3tsp of Baking Soda, 3 tsp of non id salt and 3 TBsp of Ep. salt. so that its not all at once. Do this until I add enough for the 75G. Check levels mid way through. I should mix the 3 in a seperate small container well and then add to tank. I'm waiting on my order to come. When it does I'm going to put crushed coral in media bags and put it in the back of each side of the emp. 400. Does this maintain the PH level or Do I keep adding the three chem. (BS,Ep. salt and reg salt) at each water change? how much do you add or stick to the rate of 1tsp of baking soda and salt and 1 TBsp Ep. salt per 5G? I'm using small gravel insted of sand. Just didn't feel good enough to start with sand. sorry. I'm going to set up a lake Malawi Mbuna tank first using one of the cookie cutter set-ups from the library. The second tank will have sand and I'm not sure as to what kind of Cichlids. Time will build confidence, as well as my $$$ book. Thanks in advance for your time


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## knotty dreadlocks (Oct 31, 2008)

lawnmowerman219 said:


> Hi all, I'm a brand new cichlid fan and I've been reading for weeks. I have learned so much! THANK ALL OF YOU  ! I'm setting up two new 75G tanks for the first time. I'm using Ehimes 2026 along with emp. 400 filters. I've cut the top of the Emp. 400 filter carteridge and removed the carbon and put in a small amout of ehime substraight. When the filter wears out I'll re-use the same sub-straight in the new filter cartridge. In the gray plastic media trays I've cut fluval 303 sponge filter into strips to help filter out the big stuff. The first tank is in the cycle stage wk 2. Temp. is 78, PH is 7.6, Amm. 0, nitrate 0. Have to get a kit to check GH/KH. I have just put in 6 Zeb. Dan. for the cycle. I'm wondering how to add the Baking soda, Ep. salt, and non id salt. How does this sound? Every other day add 3tsp of Baking Soda, 3 tsp of non id salt and 3 TBsp of Ep. salt. so that its not all at once. Do this until I add enough for the 75G. Check levels mid way through. I should mix the 3 in a seperate small container well and then add to tank. I'm waiting on my order to come. When it does I'm going to put crushed coral in media bags and put it in the back of each side of the emp. 400. Does this maintain the PH level or Do I keep adding the three chem. (BS,Ep. salt and reg salt) at each water change? how much do you add or stick to the rate of 1tsp of baking soda and salt and 1 TBsp Ep. salt per 5G? I'm using small gravel insted of sand. Just didn't feel good enough to start with sand. sorry. I'm going to set up a lake Malawi Mbuna tank first using one of the cookie cutter set-ups from the library. The second tank will have sand and I'm not sure as to what kind of Cichlids. Time will build confidence, as well as my $$$ book. Thanks in advance for your time


http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

Uhh. The enter key is your friend.

Step 1 is read the article. Step 2 is ask yourself, after reading the article, if you still want to use a buffer.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> The enter key is your friend.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

I wouldn't use any buffers or salts if I were you. Your pH is fine for just about anything. Trying to get into a routine with buffers is just asking for trouble. Stability in water parameters is far more important than trying to get the perfect pH. Don't complicate things if you don't have to.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

*lawnmowerman219*, I'd did you get the GH/KH test kit? I'd start with getting those readings from 
your tap water before determining if there's a need to add anything. As you're seeing and as others 
have said, trying to maintain parameters with the addition of additives can get tricky.

The crushed coral is easy to do, but not sure how much it'll help and how quickly since you're relying on 
it to dissolve. Can't hurt. It's the 'buffers' that help stabilize the pH, so theoretically, if the crushed coral 
dissolves enough to add a fair amount of buffer, it'll stabilize the pH.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

While we wait for more info from the OP I want to add two comments.

In this case, since there is no information yet on the KH/GH levels I think the only recommendation to the OP can be to test for KH and GH as prov suggested. The first step in determining when to use a buffer is to know the KH value. Without knowing the KH value you cannot know whether or not to use a buffer. So until that number is provided there can't be a suggested course of action.

The other comment I wanted to share is my opinion on buffers. I understand that some people have a negative opinion of them. I do not, especially when they are used to as a literal buffer. I use a baking soda buffer at every water change. It takes about one minute to make and use, and there are no ill effects observed.

I think the problem is that people assume that using a buffer is bad. I don't think that is ever a true statement. I think it is true that using a buffer is not always necessary. I also think that it is true that using a buffer can be necessary. The objective should not be whether or not to use a buffer, but whether or not there is enough KH to maintain a stable pH.

If you can maintain a stable pH without additional buffer then I think you don't need to use a buffer. If you cannot maintain a stable pH without additional buffer then I think you should use a buffer.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

One last addendum. The key point about using baking soda as a buffer, is that the pH reaches a maximum threshold independent of amount of buffer used. That is a very important property related the safe use of a buffer. It is because of this property that there is little "danger" associated with "chasing" a pH value - at least with cichlids who do fine at the 8.2 max value of a baking soda buffer.


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## njpiranha (Dec 28, 2008)

that article says the salt is used to harden the water, but the blue bagged salt sold at hardware stores which is regular old rock salt, same as grocery store salt, is sold as a water softner?


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

Actually I have never figured out why that article says to use table salt (NaCl). Using it will not increase the hardness of your water. I believe the intent of adding it is to provide "trace elements" - which is a rather ambigous term.

But the epsom salt is what raises the hardness of the water.


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## lawnmowerman219 (Jan 22, 2009)

Thanks to all who responded! Sorry for long post. I purchased a "Tetratest Laborett" Kit. The only one that had KH/GH. Water straight out of my tap was PH= between 7.5 and 8.0 (closer in color to 7.5), KH=5, GH= 13. Water out of cycling tank is PH= between 7.5 and 8.0 (color closer to 8.0), KH/GH same, Amm.= between 1.5 and 3.0(closer in color to 1.5), and finaly Nitrites= <0.3 I'm in agreement with "KISS" if the buffer isn't needed then why make it harder? Is the slightly higher PH due to the crushed coral? What would be the suggested course of action? Seems a buffer isn't needed? Please correct me if wrong! Thanks to everyone for helping the new guy! Chuck


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I just noticed Barberton, Ohio. If you're using Lake Erie water like me, and by your parameters it sounds 
like you may be, then you can keep it simple and don't worry about additional buffers. If your tank is just 
set up and starting to cycle, then I would just monitor parameters while it's doing that and not even 
worry about additives of any kind. If KH runs low during this time, then just do some partial water 
changes to replenish.

I don't know if it's just the water here, but I stopped worrying completely about KH, pH, and GH, and just 
do my water changes on tanks and have had no problems. That includes up to 50% on a tanganyikan 
tank straight from the tap and they don't bat an eye. No chloramine to deal with either, so I bought some 
sodium thiosulfate in crystal form and have enough dechlor to last a life time for about $20.

I used to measure out the baking soda and Epsom salt and bump up all those values because it was 
my first tang tank and I had heard how these guys *need *a high pH and really hard water. But after 
stopping, my only problem is what to do with all the fry. My plants are doing better and my water is 
clearer. I had read that sometimes these additives can fall out of solution and cause a haze in the 
water. I think I experienced that.

Anyway, I think you'll be fine out of the tap as long as you keep up with water changes to replenish 
buffers. It kind of forces it for me.


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## buffalocichlids (Jan 18, 2009)

prov356 said:


> I just noticed Barberton, Ohio. If you're using Lake Erie water like me, and by your parameters it sounds
> like you may be, then you can keep it simple and don't worry about additional buffers. If your tank is just
> set up and starting to cycle, then I would just monitor parameters while it's doing that and not even
> worry about additives of any kind. If KH runs low during this time, then just do some partial water
> ...


so your actually never breed when you used the buffer, but once you stopped using it, they started breeding like rabbits?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> so your actually never breed when you used the buffer, but once you stopped using it, they started breeding like rabbits?


No, they bred all along.


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## lawnmowerman219 (Jan 22, 2009)

Thanks for the help Tim! I think I will follow your advice and not add the buffers. Are you close to barberton? I've been to the big fish store in Middleburg Hts. to look around. Is there any place special you buy fish from? This is fun starting up a new tank and learning! Thanks everyone!
Chuck


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

lawnmowerman219 said:


> Thanks for the help Tim! I think I will follow your advice and not add the buffers. Are you close to barberton? I've been to the big fish store in Middleburg Hts. to look around. Is there any place special you buy fish from? This is fun starting up a new tank and learning! Thanks everyone!
> Chuck


Closer to Cleveland, than Akron. I work a couple of minutes away from that store in Middleburg, so go 
there on my lunch occasionally. A better store is Something Fishy on State Rd. It's right off 480, a few 
blocks north, so it's easy to get to. You'll be amazed at the difference in the fish. Great shop. Ask Dave 
for a tour of his breeding room downstairs. He does that for first time visitors.

Good luck with the new tank. :thumb:


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