# Is a water softener ok?



## goleo (Jan 5, 2011)

Hi all

I got a question for anyone that may know?

I had to add a water softener to my brand home because the water was apparently extremely hard. 
My question is, I'm not sure if the water is too soft or if it's even any good for the fish now?

I have a mixed hap tank that's running at another location and would like to start setting up my new 125g to get my fish over here!

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated :thumb:

Thx
G[/b]


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

If you live in Toronto, and are getting water from lake Ontario, it is not extremely hard. Water softeners work by exchanging a calcium ion with sodium. ions, so while you reduce the calcium in the water you increase the sodium. You would be better to source your tank water before it goes to the softner. This may require adding a tap and will preclude using hot water. you could use straight tap and softened hot water, but my choice would be to use the tap water as is. GTA tap water allows you to keep almost all varieties of fish without modification, as it is medium hard.


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## magic_cichlid (Jun 30, 2003)

I'm no expert, but I've been changing my water with softened water and the fish have been fine. I rely on my holey rock to keep the water at the right levels though.


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## londonloco (Mar 31, 2011)

I've kept fish in my current home for 16 years with a water softner on my well. The only fish I've given up on are discus, I have a high TDS levels (650ish) and they seem to die off slowly in my tanks. About 11 years ago I had 16 tanks set up with Mbuna and their fry. I've recently come back to cichlid keeping as they love my water. I wouldn't use your raw water for your tanks, your well water with the softner should be fine.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

londonloco said:


> I've kept fish in my current home for 16 years with a water softner on my well. The only fish I've given up on are discus, I have a high TDS levels (650ish) and they seem to die off slowly in my tanks. About 11 years ago I had 16 tanks set up with Mbuna and their fry. I've recently come back to cichlid keeping as they love my water. I wouldn't use your raw water for your tanks, your well water with the softner should be fine.


Softened water will often have a higher TDS than unsoftened, and the "raw water" we are talking about is not well water, but municipal water with a TDS in the low to mid 300s. Quite frankly, I wouldn't drink softened water, so I would prefer to not keep my fish in it. However, many people do with out any difficulty. The point here is that if the original poster is in fact on Lake Ontario municipal water, and he was told his water was extremely hard, he was lied to.


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## JoelRHale (Apr 22, 2011)

My water goes through a softener and it still remains hard enough for my Mbuna. You should test your water to see what your parameters are and then go from there.


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## londonloco (Mar 31, 2011)

BillD said:


> Softened water will often have a higher TDS than unsoftened, and the "raw water" we are talking about is not well water, but municipal water with a TDS in the low to mid 300s. Quite frankly, I wouldn't drink softened water, so I would prefer to not keep my fish in it. However, many people do with out any difficulty. The point here is that if the original poster is in fact on Lake Ontario municipal water, and he was told his water was extremely hard, he was lied to.


I don't drink my well water, we buy bottled water. I've been drinking bottle water so long, I don't like to drink water from city water either. My fish don't mind the well water tho... :thumb:


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

I have a 75G tank with Lake Malawi Peacocks and Haps and have been been using softened water from my softner without any issues. The fish seem ok but in my substrate I do have crush coral to keep the pH and water a little hard. If yours is too soft then you can get some cruch coral or maybe some lake salts etc.


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## DrTim's (Jun 8, 2010)

It really all depends on the type if water softener you have. The typical one exchanged the calcium and magnesium in the water for sodium (these are the unit you have to add salt (sodium chloride) to. But some cities have now banned these types of softeners and in that case the unit exchanges the calcium and magnesium for hydrogen or others may use potassium chloride. The best thing to do is contact the company that sold/installed the softener and ask them what type it is.


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## Dooner (Mar 10, 2019)

I know this is an old thread, but I think if you read my recent thread in the illness section titled "new death in my 210", you will find it helpful. I have found that I will need to bypass the cold water on my water softener when I do,a water change The softener does such a good job, the gh or general hardness does not barely exist. It takes the Gh from over 19 to 2. It is not a big deal, I just have to remember to turn the bypass off after the water change.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There is nothing wrong with hard water, I don't know why so many people have softeners for their home use. Always a good idea to test the water before the softener to see if it is better for your fish and easier for you.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

DJRansome said:


> There is nothing wrong with hard water, *I don't know why so many people have softeners for their home use*. Always a good idea to test the water before the softener to see if it is better for your fish and easier for you.


Hard water tends to leave a mineral film on everything it comes in contact with, you notice this as a buildup of mineral deposits.

To some degree, this includes people bathing in it.

When soap is added to the equation, the situation is further complicated:



> When soap is added to hard water, the Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions present in hard water react with soap. The sodium salts present in soaps are converted to their corresponding calcium and magnesium salts which are precipitated as scum. The insoluble scum sticks on the clothes and so the cleaning capacity of soap is reduced.


https://amrita.olabs.edu.in/?sub=73&brc ... =120&cnt=1

People used to bathing in soft water tend feel that they "can't get all the soap off" when bathing in hard water. To some degree they are probably correct.

Conversely, people used to bathing in hard water will sometimes complain that they "slimey" after bathing in soft water.

That "slimey" feeling is just clean, wet skin ... that doesn't have soap/mineral scum all over it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Hmmm. I like natural and I feel I can't get all the soap off in soft water...like in some hotels.

Minerals are healthy to ingest and healthy for the fish so I will stick with mother nature.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

DJRansome said:


> Hmmm. I like natural


Rain water is natural - and it's soft.

Arguably, compared to that, unsoftened hard water is "less natural" (or more accurately, less "pure" ... since minerals are not a constituent of H2O in it's purest state)



DJRansome said:


> and I feel I can't get all the soap off in soft water...like in some hotels.


That is an inaccurate perception.

What you are feeling is *lack* of soap scum and minerals ...

If you are not used to it, it will feel weird.



DJRansome said:


> Minerals are healthy to ingest and healthy for the fish so I will stick with mother nature.


Uh-huh ... :roll:

Well, I wouldn't advise "ingesting" any of these:

https://riordanclinic.org/2016/07/10-toxic-minerals/

https://www.mining-technology.com/featu ... s-4256873/


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I get what you are saying, but I like my hard water. Thanks for the post.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

DJRansome said:


> I get what you are saying, but I like my hard water.


Fair enough ... understand ... :thumb:

I like our hard water here as well ... for the hard water fish (Rift Lake cichlids)

For softer water species such as angels - as well as general household use and human consumption - I prefer softened water.

The fish seem to do well for the most part in either one, so I'm not sure it really makes all that much difference.

Life tends to be fairly adaptable.



DJRansome said:


> Thanks for the post.


Thanks for tolerating it ...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I like to maintain my illusion that I am treating them to an environment close to their own when its easy to work out for both of us. My vendor keeps his cichlids at a higher pH as well.

They add minerals for taste (or use springs with lots of minerals) for bottled drinking water. At least according to those Poland Spring commercials.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

DJRansome said:


> I like to maintain my illusion that I am treating them to an environment close to their own when its easy to work out for both of us.


LOL ... good one ... :thumb:

Similar illusions here ... with an emphasis on "easy" ... :lol:



DJRansome said:


> My vendor keeps his cichlids at a higher pH as well.


Totally makes sense to me.



DJRansome said:


> They add minerals for taste (or use springs with lots of minerals) for bottled drinking water. At least according to those Poland Spring commercials.


It's interesting ... the matter of _personal taste_ that is.

I spent the first ten or so years of my life in the city with hard water.

Never knew different until we moved to the country and got a water softener. Was never a problem.

Later, guests at the house (in the country) would rave about how we had the best tasting (well) water.

Obviously, I've gotten acclimated to it.

I'm not all that big a fan of water as a beverage ... but when it comes to hard water, I actually find it revolting to drink. Don't like bathing it either.

Wife will complain about water hardness - usually after taking a shower - if she thinks the softener (which sets its recharge on "gallons used" basis) isn't delivering soft water. I'm not quite as sensitive to it as she is though.

Go figure ... :roll:


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