# Yala Swamp Hap/Fulu variant



## willbo77

I've seen a lot of sales on Yala Swamp Fulu/Hap variant. It's similar to the Christmas Fulu. I've seen it on several websites and wondered if Cichlid Forum will ever include it in their profiles. There is a Yala Swamp spot bar, but it's not the same fish. Is there something in the works to add this fish?


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## willbo77

I don't know, I'm wondering if they're the same fish. I keep looking at videos on youtube and one in particular looks identical to my yala swamp, but it's labeled as the spot bar/Mbipia Lutea. I wonder if anyone from CichlidForum can verify this or not.


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## StructureGuy

willbo77 said:


> I've seen a lot of sales on Yala Swamp Fulu/Hap variant. It's similar to the Christmas Fulu. I've seen it on several websites and wondered if Cichlid Forum will ever include it in their profiles. There is a Yala Swamp spot bar, but it's not the same fish. Is there something in the works to add this fish?


Yala Swamp is a location and not the complete name of any fish. There is no way that any of us can figure out what species fish you are talking about with that description. We have been working on enhancing and updating the profiles for the past month or so and are not yet done.



willbo77 said:


> I don't know, I'm wondering if they're the same fish. I keep looking at videos on youtube and one in particular looks identical to my yala swamp, but it's labeled as the spot bar/Mbipia Lutea. I wonder if anyone from CichlidForum can verify this or not.


The profiles will be dealing with valid names and common names of Victoriian cichlids available in the hobby. How that relates to your fish, we have no way of knowing.

Sorry I can't be more help.
Kevin


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## willbo77

I appreciate the reply. I will have to get some pics on here and more of a description.


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## Protazerg

*willbo77*
they have a profile for it here. Yala Swamps are Lutea

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=2330


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## willbo77

That's what I have. I've been breeding them for a couple years now. The pics here in cichlid forum don't do it justice. My males are amazing. They have a lot of character as well. I have them in a 75 with some Astatotilapia latifasciata and they do very well together.


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## willbo77

didn't work :/


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## Protazerg

*willbo77*
the link didnt work? weird, it works for me :/


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## Aspencer

I am getting 10 unsexed fry on next Tuesday...have a 55g with black play sand and clay pots


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## samaki

Hi perhaps it's a Mbipia species but at my point of vue it's not Mbipia lutea.
xris


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## Aspencer

Check this out....maybe you can save me....8^)

http://usafishbox.forumotion.com/f116-cast-program


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## samaki

Hi What do you need, I'm just seeing a link but don't know where yu need my help???
xris


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## Aspencer

samaki said:


> Hi What do you need, I'm just seeing a link but don't know where yu need my help???
> xris


Just joking...She said she didn't believe those 10 fry were Yala Swamp...so I gave her the link.


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## samaki

:thumb:


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## Ganapoes

I appreciate the reply. I will have to get some pics on here and more of a description.


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## Aspencer

My five new Mbipia cf Lutea (if that is what they are).


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## GVSailor

Very Nice fish. 
I have the same species ( if that is what they really are) I sent pictures to CARES and I should have a definitive answer on the exact name of the fish very soon.


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## Aspencer

Please post when you have an answer...do mine look like yours??? These are 1 inch fish.


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## GVSailor

They look exactly how mine did when they were that size.

I recently saw a picture of an adult male Mbipia cf Lutea yala Swamp Crossbar on dave schumacher's website that looked identical to my male. So hopefully that is what we have.

Do you mind me asking where you got yours?

Mine came from Willbo who started this post.


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## Aspencer

I belong to a program called CAST which keeps the line of endangered species...I get the fish free so I do not own them...just raise them in donated tank space...breed them and pass the fry on...

USA Fish from texas..Kory Watkins....

We might try trading to strengthen the genetic line with some diversity.


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## Aspencer

Largest of my brood of 5 is starting to get some maroon on the outer edges of the fins.


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## GVSailor

Those look great!

I would be open to trading to improve the line. Do you know where that line originated? I talked to a friend I trust on the subject matter. He agreed that these are Mbipia Lutea cf Crossbar Yala Swamp.

http://www.africancichlids.net/articles/mbipia_lutea/ Here is a link to an article on them written by Greg Steeves


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## Aspencer

Mine are from Texas, Daves Rare Fish has the same line from the same breeder. I belong to a group called CAST, site is USA Fish Box...we are raising endangered Lake Victorians to pass on..Yes I would be interested in trading fry but have none so far.


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## samaki

Hi they are H.sp"cross bar Yala swamp" and not Mipia lutea at all....
xris


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## Aspencer

Can you explain why they are not Mbipia cf Lutea...


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## samaki

Hi because of the body morphology, the body color and the fact that this fish is from Yala swamp, the Mbipia lutea was described by Bouton and Zwennes and is a strictly lithophilic species(saying that it doesn't live anywhere else apart rock reefs), the body color is very far from the Yala fish(lutea is a yellow species with a red flush on the upper flanks with a blue head and red finns, it's a compressed species growing to 14 cm long. the yala has red belly on a grey body color. In victorian's species, the body color is a part of the diagnose, if the fish doesn't exhibit the same body color then it's a different species. Who is the scientist who described them as Mbipia cf lutea Yala Swamp????
xris


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## Aspencer

They came from Greg Steeves who has wrote a book on Victorians and has them in his book.

This is the fish we have. Mbipia cf. lutea Yala Swamp ''Crossbar'' 100% positive.

http://www.davesfish.com/images/Mbipia%20lutea.jpg

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... africa.php


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## samaki

Hi Greg is a friend and I've already told him that I don't agree to determine species without a scientists advice, particularly with those who worked with those species. 
xris :lol:


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## KMX

Just b/c you don't agree does not mean you are right.......

http://www.africancichlids.net/articles/mbipia_lutea/


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## StructureGuy

Here is what my Mbipia lutea "Makobe Island" looks like:










Feel free to compare the body shape etc yourself. No one is doubting that the fish you have is commonly being sold in the US as Mbipia cf lutea "Yala Swamp" crossbar. This forum is all about sharing experiences and opinions.

I think you will find that there are different opinions regarding many fish classifications even among the scientists studying them. I would imagine that the Victorians species classifications generate even more diverse opinions. But in the end, those doing the scientific studies tend to respect other opinions. I know that Greg Steeves and Samaki respect each others opinions and we only ask that the posters in this tread do the same.

Kevin


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## nick a

From my recollection the male in Dave's picture may be the father of most of the fish in the US hobby today.

Comparing/diagnosing fish from photographs is sometimes pretty difficult however. Camera angles can distort geometry and the quality of the photographer is a critical factor. It's obvious that Kevin is a much more skilled photographer than that guy who took that crappy pic on Dave's site :wink: Only *I *get to say that though :lol:

Comparing/diagnosing fish from stock many generations in aquariums is also not optimum.

!00% with Kevin that discussions should be based on respect and desire only towards better knowledge vs trying to argue who's ice is colder.


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## KMX

Unless it is identified by the French, it is wrong :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## samaki

:lol: Ya right :lol: 
xris


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## samaki

Hi There is a topic on Http:wwwcichlids of victoria called Potential Mbipia Lutea tank mates?, yu will see pictures of both species and Honnestly who can tell they are of the same species?????
xris :lol: 
Ole Seehausen didn't identified this fish as Mbipia lutea so...(no need to mention that Ole is one of the scientits who caught most of the fishes we have in the hobby) opcorn: :fish:


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## Aspencer

Here is the latest picture of my male...almost 3 inches now.


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## samaki

I keep myself Mbipia lutea Makobe island for 5 years now and none of my young fishes did ever show this kind of body color
xris


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## Aspencer

How about some pictures of your Mbipia?...I looked in your album but I see none. It would be interesting to see yours to compare body styles. Mine are almost growing daily.


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## samaki

Hi They are exactly the same as on Kevin picture, 
xris


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## nick a

Kevin or Xris...it would be interesting to see some comparison photos of the females also.
One of the things that originally appealled to me about these that Greg had was the 'distinctness' of the females.....many Hap femmes are very similar to each other but these were very easy to identify.


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## samaki

Hi Nick, for some species the females can be very hard to distinguish for example P.nyererei/ P.pundamilia/P/igneopinnis, so if yu have two or three close species, yu can't segregate the females from each others only by eyes, yu have to check the teeth number, rows and form and the body proportion.
Nick yu know that a female in french is a femme :thumb: 
xris


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## StructureGuy

nick a said:


> Kevin or Xris...it would be interesting to see some comparison photos of the females also.
> One of the things that originally appealed to me about these that Greg had was the 'distinctness' of the females.....many Hap femmes are very similar to each other but these were very easy to identify.


Like many Victorian females, they sometimes show some barring and sometimes don't depending upon age and mood.

http://www.african-cichlid.com/Lutea.htm
(scroll to the bottom)

Kevin


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## samaki

Hi Kevin did yur fry showed any blue body color when growing???We are not dealing here with two variants of one species as in P.nyererey Makobe and Python( the young fishes of theses variants are impossible to distinguish until they are fully sexually mature for the males, the females are impossible to be taken apart from one another), but with two separated species and perhaps belonging to two genera .
The differences are two importants from the pictures, the barring doesn't correspond nor the number of vertical bars 5-6 in lutea/6-7 in yala, the body color is obviously not the same, the head profile is somewhat different, becoming decurved with age in lutea while it is straight in the adult yala fish, the caudal fin color is not the same, the anal fin also and the egg dummies are not arranged in the same manner nor are in the same number. 
xris  :thumb:


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## nick a

The same male as in Dave's pic and a female....I'll have to get on the home PC & upload some better femme pics (Xris...I'm bilingual when talking about the fairer sex! :lol: )

To me....the females of this type are significantly different than those that you picture Kevin. While mood variance is a given, the 'spot' vs 'bar' pattern in this type is what set them off from your more typical Punda or other type female. The examples you show are more in line with a 'norm' type of female.


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## samaki

:lol:


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## Aspencer

Here is the male one week later


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## Aspencer

Here is one of my four females...all have the same coloration:


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## nick a

These were some of the few images I was able to locate....unfortunately they come from an era when a P~n~S was my only camera option, so the clarity is less than optimal.

I think you can see clearly enough to note the uniqueness of the the females tho.
I included another shot of the old male with different lighting.


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## Aspencer

Except for the forehead, mine are looking like you males. Mine are still young but the coloration is coming...I am starting to see some reddish on the bottom half of my male.


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## GVSailor

Those look exactly like the ones i have. I found it interesting that the females get red on their tail.


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## Aspencer

My females have a slight greenish tint but no red on anything..my male has developed black fins underneath belly.


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## Aspencer

If found this explanation at another forum about our fish and the designation of cf in the name and now makes much more sense on our discussion...

http://cichlidsofvictoria.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=518


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## GVSailor

My females didn't devolop the red on the tail until they got older. I have seen other pictures with the red outline on the tail as well.

That makes alot of sense in relevance to our conversation. They are similar, but different.

At least we know we have the same fish.


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## samaki

Aspencer said:


> If found this explanation at another forum about our fish and the designation of cf in the name and now makes much more sense on our discussion...
> 
> http://cichlidsofvictoria.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=518


Hi
cf means that the fish is similar in many aspects and seems belonging to the same species, for that purpose, the fish has to have the same body color and the same morphology, and have to share the same habitat type wich is not the case here, we have two differentiated fishes from two locations and two habitat type with no link between them....I let yu thiÃƒÂ§nk by yourself
xris


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## Aspencer

Here is my question...I have 5 hap sp cross bar yala swamp in a 55 g, 4 females and 1 male, and all is peaceful. I have a chance to get a different line and add them to the tank. If I can get 5 more, should I? right now the males is almost 3 inches with the females a little smaller.


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## samaki

Hi yur ratio seems good , don't change, yu never know what could happen.
xris


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## alanastar

:thumb: this a very informative post :thumb:

ok so i understand we are dealing with 2 species here, one endemic to Lake Victoria Mbipia lutea Makobe Island that was included in the shipment from Germany and "Mbipia cf. lutea" sp."crossbar" from the Yala swamp region. (profile needs correcting stating victoria and not Yala swamp)

Do we know if Mbipia is endemic to Lake Victoria ? If so then the fish from Yala swamp can not be so. From what i have read the strain seems good so it is only the name in doubt, where i find agrement with xris in Haplochromis sp."crossbar" Yala swamp

Hi Paul 
Mbipia genus is endemic from rocky regions of Victoria lake and Victoria Nile. As far as I know, it has not been described from another lake(until some more complete samples are made)
xris


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## Aspencer

Here is a video of my four females from Texas, now about 3 inches long, and my four juveniles from Michigan which I believe are two males and two females and growing fast.


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## Aspencer

Latest video. The four juveniles have been in the tank for 37 days. Does it look like I have any males?


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## Aspencer

I haven't updated the fish that was sold to me as Mbipia cf Lutea, Yala Swamp which I now call Haplochromis Spotbar...any opinion, they are a year old now.


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