# Julidochromis and Brevis 20 gallon long



## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

I've kind of been bitten by MTS(though I only have one tank right now) and was wondering about setting up a relatively simple 20 gallon long tank with a pair of Julidochromis transcriptus gombe(or bemba/ornatus if gombe is not available) with 6 brevis. My experience with my 20 gallon long multie tank hasn't been quite positive(though I do have 20-30 fry that are actually growing out finally without being eaten) so I definitely want to have a more exciting tank. Not that my multies are boring(not in the least) but they haven't been easy to work with since most fry that materialized would disappear within a few days.

Where can I find a cheap 20 gallon long? I might have to wait until Petco has its 1 dollar a gallon sale but in the meantime does the stock list sound good? I know brevis don't really require much in terms of territory size and I also realize that having the julies in there likely means that the brevis fry wouldn't make it in the tank and would have to be removed if I wanted to raise any to adulthood. On the other hand would this make for an exciting tank? Do the julies display great parenting skills? I want to have a setup that I could potentially watch for hours.

Also, I am quite busy with school(though the summer is approaching) so I would also prefer to have fish and a tank setup that doesn't require a whole lot of maintenance. I'm fine with doing water changes once very 2 weeks but I don't really want to have to deal with sensitive or troublesome fish.. Also, in the next year or so it's highly likely that I'll have to move the tanks and fish so would this be a potential problem for the julies(I know it won't be for the brevis)? I heard that Julie pair bonds are fragile and moving their rocks and territories around could lead to their pair bond being disrupted with the end result being that one of the pair is killed by its mate.. Are julies fragile in terms of water quality and large scale water changes?

Alternatively I was thinking about doing a setup with Kribs or African Butterfly Dwarf cichlids(Anomalochromis thomasi).. Any ideas? Appreciate all advice! Thanks!


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

My advice is leave mixing bottom dwellers to experienced folk who are not looking for the best for any one species. A 20g long is a great species tank but a rubbish community tank.

Kind of in the description 20g breeder.

Going for small breeding tank with 2 species of cichlid is kind of like wanting a sheep with 5 legs. Yep it can be done but it is far harder doing it in one tank than two smaller species tanks.

All the best James


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I've successfully mixed two species such as this in tanks that long, so it could very well work for you. Make sure the territories are distinct, the shell dwellers mature when you add them, and preferably some visual barriers between the territories. Of course you could do a Pelvicachromis tank too, if you can, get some taeniatus, fantastic fish.


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

Fogelhund said:


> I've successfully mixed two species such as this in tanks that long, so it could very well work for you. Make sure the territories are distinct, the shell dwellers mature when you add them, and preferably some visual barriers between the territories. Of course you could do a Pelvicachromis tank too, if you can, get some taeniatus, fantastic fish.


Great! Do you(or anyone else) think that such a Julie + Brevis tank would make for an interesting and enjoyable setup? Are the sunspot brevis more attractive in appearance than the Kavala strain?

If I decide to go for a Pelvicachromis tank would that be easier to maintain(less demanding fish)? As another option I was thinking about the normal red jewel cichlids(instead of the african dwarf butterfly cichlids) as well but do those get too aggressive and large for a 20 gallon long?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I think so. But its not clear cut.

If you do go brevis plus julies. Prob best to get the brevis big and settled first in a shell one end.
Few rocks and julie caves the other. Wide area of sand beween maybe with sight block of plants.
Julies famous for pair bonds braking when moved so prob go for 6 small ones and be ready to remove the rejects fast when the first pair forms. No worries about the brevis dominating em if they have caves to retreat into, just if they are biggest and established first the brevis have no where to hide as Julies can pop there heads into shells and deliver a real nasty powerful bite. (Mouths can crush shells of baby snails).

No idea about the kribs or whatever not done those for 20 years. :wink:

All the best James


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

24Tropheus said:


> I think so. But its not clear cut.
> 
> If you do go brevis plus julies. Prob best to get the brevis big and settled first in a shell one end.
> Few rocks and julie caves the other. Wide area of sand beween maybe with sight block of plants.
> ...


Nice to know. I suppose people have had different experiences but I do remember one poster before having mentioned that they moved their ornatus pair a couple of times and the pair bond was never broken. If I do decide to go with the brevis + julie combo and I had to move the tank and fish, are there some ways to minimize damaging their pair bond or if it is damaged, what's a good way to get them to settle back in with each other?

Does anyone have an opinion on the African Butterfly Cichlid(Anomalochromis thomasi) idea?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Just guessing but if you move them in with their rocks/breeding cave and young, then I would guess they would hardly notice the change of tank and stay bonded.

Otherwise seem to need to give them enough cover for the smaller one to hide out of site and "ungettable" and waite for them to breed/bond again.


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

24Tropheus said:


> Just guessing but if you move them in with their rocks/breeding cave and young, then I would guess they would hardly notice the change of tank and stay bonded.
> 
> Otherwise seem to need to give them enough cover for the smaller one to hide out of site and "ungettable" and waite for them to breed/bond again.


Thanks! Also, is it true that Julie fry are too tiny to take BBS nauplii when first free swimming? I remember reading an article by Dr. Paul Loiselle on how fry from the dwarf julies are at first too small to eat BBS but that aquarists don't notice since they often have enough of an aufwuchs or microorganism colonies in their tanks for many of the initial fry to get to a size large enough to take BBS. However, this article was written in the 80s so I don't know how relevant/factual it is anymore. In all probability I would only be feeding my hypothetical future julie fry with crushed NLS pellets and possibly frozen bbs. Would this be good enough to grow them out?

Also, how devoted are Julie parents to their fry? I really want to get to observe some highly developed cichlid parenting skills.. That same article by Dr. Loiselle said that Julies only defend their rocks/territory and although they have a high tolerance for letting multiple generations of fry grow around them/with them they don't really show much overt fry care..


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

That sounds about right to me. If you want protection of individual young you kind of have to go Neolamp and the aggression problems from those.

No idea about feeding young on real small stuff but as trickle breeders as long as you keep feeding the adults and best have a sponge filter for the young to pic at when young feeding is not a problem as they do not starve.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My julie fry survive in the tank with no special feeding...just NLS for the adults. I'm sure they nibble on the leftover pellets when they soften on the bottom.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I would say while if your lucky with brevis you may get good protection of young, you are more sure of getting it with similis or multies. IME.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

You could go for a Cookie cutter set up.
Julidochromis regani - 1 pair
Neolamprologus leleupi - 1 pair
'Lamprologus' occelatus - 1 trio

But that would be stupidity to believe it could work?

All the best James


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

24Tropheus said:


> You could go for a Cookie cutter set up.
> Julidochromis regani - 1 pair
> Neolamprologus leleupi - 1 pair
> 'Lamprologus' occelatus - 1 trio
> ...


I know that would be extremely difficult to ever make work which is why I'm wondering why you would suggest that.. OTOH I have heard of several people who have been able to keep brevis and julies in a 20 gallon long(including Fogelhound). Do you recommend getting the similis instead of brevis when I already have a 20 gallon multifasciatus tank? I thought the brevis would be more laidback and easier to take care of in a mixed species tank than similis. Not to mention, it'll probably be hard to even find any similis for sale.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Nope its just kind of I am trying to grind the mods down to remove that silly cookie cutter that has prob led to the death of many cichlids.

Not able to get similis? Very very poor. Very easy to get here and easier to mix than brevis, almost too peaceful to go with Julies in a 20g long. Brevis or multies plus Julies esp if you get the shelly settled first could be good. More exciting would be calliurus but bet if you can not get similis I guess that would be a problem too. (actualy getting genuine females a prob here too, I am for sure not parting with mine. :wink: )

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Another shelly good at mixing with small Julies is Telmatochromis sp. "Temporalis Shell".
And lets face it pretty much any other shelly is more interesting and easier to keep in a community than brevis.

All the best James


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

Are Brevis really that boring? I also thought that Telmatochromis and Julidochromis have a potential to interbreed if kept in the same quarters. I know this is outside the realm of Tanganyikan fish but what about rainbow cichlids(Heterotilapia multispinosa) with a school of dither fish? Would that be an interesting tank?


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I don't think brevis are as borring as people make them out to be. I like that they are pretty territorial without being a real pain like occies. In my experience, they take a LONG time to get settled in and they are more mellow than the other shell dwellers. I had a lot of fun mixing julies and multis in a 20 long. I had about a 4" space of sand between the rocks and shell bed, and enjoyed watching the two species squabble over the border. Full disclosure, I'm a breed and sell type of guy, so the tank was only setup for around 7 months.

Rainbow cichlids (Archocentrus multispinosa now if I am not mistaken) are a cool little fish, but I think there are better choices for a 20 long. Kribs would be more interesting in my opinion. Rainbows loose control of their swarm pretty quick. Any of the common species of dwarfs would work (common apistogramma, nannacara anomala, P. pulcher,). Other varieties could work depending on how hard you water is. Running through the bread and butter species is really fun according to your experience level. Convicts, kribs, A. cacatuiodes, etc types sure are fun to breed.

But to focus back on tangs, a 20 long community can work, but like others have said, it takes a little tinkering with the decor if you want it to last long term. But its a fun learning experience if your into that sort of thing.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

brevis are far from borring. Males regularly biting your hand and such a tight pair bond and sharing a single shell very enjoyable to see.
Just find em better away from other cichlids as they are so rubbish at rearing young. Keep mine in a very small tank with colourful livebearers which they hardly touch despite biting me :wink: . Just more interest seeing multies or similis or Telmats protecting and rearing young in a tang community.

Not heard of Telmats crossing with Julies. Not seen it myself.

All the best James


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I have not kept telmat. sp shell, but from what I have been told, they would dominate a 20 long, especially with a dwarf julie.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

ahud said:


> I have not kept telmat. sp shell, but from what I have been told, they would dominate a 20 long, especially with a dwarf julie.


Your for sure right. Mine chase the Julies right back into the fine rockwork of a 29g. Its kind of nice to see the shelly have the upper hand in what is a often rockdweller domminated relationship. So often the shelly is pinned close to the shells and the rockdweller "owns" most of the tank.
Provided the Julies have fine caves the T. sp. "Temperalis Shell" can not get into the Julies (transcriptus etc) are fine. Well at least thats what I see.  

All the best James


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

Thanks for the advice guys! So do you think the Kribs with some dither fish would be a more interesting tank than brevis with julies? Alternatively, I was thinking I might move one male and a female multi to the new 20 gallon and end up having one species multi tank and another one that has julies and multies. This might solve my problem of having a lot of my multi fry eaten since I would only have one male in each tank then. I don't like the idea of having the same species in 2 different tanks though.. What do you guys think?


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Your in the fun stage, if you keep on with the hobby you will find that certain fish appeal to you, and others don't. I went through a mass breed and sell stage for 3-4 years before I finally found what I like in a fish. Bred a lot of fish, and learned a lot in the process though. Sounds cheesy, maybe I am just extremely picky.

Kribs are usually dirt cheap, I say try them, and don't be afraid to dump them and try something else if you get tired of them. They should not take you long to breed. What you will get with kribs, is more active fry defense, mom will communicate with the fry and dad (if you give them a target fish), and in general the whole fry process is more interesting than with julies or shellies imo.


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

ahud said:


> Your in the fun stage, if you keep on with the hobby you will find that certain fish appeal to you, and others don't. I went through a mass breed and sell stage for 3-4 years before I finally found what I like in a fish. Bred a lot of fish, and learned a lot in the process though. Sounds cheesy, maybe I am just extremely picky.
> 
> Kribs are usually dirt cheap, I say try them, and don't be afraid to dump them and try something else if you get tired of them. They should not take you long to breed. What you will get with kribs, is more active fry defense, mom will communicate with the fry and dad (if you give them a target fish), and in general the whole fry process is more interesting than with julies or shellies imo.


Thanks! I wanted something long term though but also easy to take care of/maintain since I'm really busy with school. Would Kribs be interesting and fun enough to keep in the long term? I heard their pair bonds break but to remedy that is it as simple as separating the male and female and then reintroducing them? Do you think the Julie and Brevis tank idea would be entertaining too? Any other ideas that would make for a very fun and nice tank to watch? I'm basically limited in terms of number of tanks until I'm done with school and solidifying my career so I wanted something easy yet entertaining..


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

Everything mentioned would qualify as both easy and entertaining. Long term depends on the person.


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## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

Thanks! I thought of something else. What about a Daffodil or Falcicula species tank? I've heard conflicting reports that Brichardi complex fish are best enjoyed in large tanks where you really have room for the expansive colonies. Is this true? A 20 gallon long would be too small then wouldn't it?

Would the Julidochromis and Brevis tank be entertaining(I apologize if it seems like I'm repeating myself and/or beating a dead horse but I don't think I ever got a direct response)? Would it be better to have a Julidochromis species tank instead?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

More entertaining is subjective. I might say yes, and you might think no. So it's hard to provide a direct answer.

If you were leaning toward julidochromis and shellies, and by entertaining you means lots of action and spunkiness, I might do multi's instead of brevis. Even though I love the brevis and their bulldog faces.

I know people do brichardi species tanks in a 29G which is the same length as a 20 long, but they may enjoy the extra height.


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## bveister (Apr 21, 2013)

I love my brevis as they are! Only other tankmates are two syndontis petricola and they get along great!


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