# Hard/Soft Water



## RMG (Apr 14, 2009)

We have a soft water conversion system that is located at the main water inlet for the house. Therefore the entire house has soft water (using a salt system).

I understand the harder the water the better for cichlids, however, what I am not sure of is how material (or toxic) soft water is. With the inability to use soft water, I would need to feed a separate line off the main water inlet and then heat the water bucket by bucket given the water in the hot water tank is soft.

Thoughts? Empirical evidence?

Thanks.

RMG


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *RMG*,

It depends on which cichlids you want to keep. Most South American cichlids come from soft, acidic water systems. Many SA cichlid keepers would love to have that water supply.

Many African cichlids come from hard water with higher PH values. If you have soft water, there are african rift lake cichlid buffers out there, and recipes for make your own in the C-F library section.


----------



## RMG (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks DeadFishFloating

My 90 gallon tank is essentially established and stocked with the likes of Placi. electra; Pseudo sp.and saulosi; and Labido caeruleas, among others.

Do you know of a method to increase the hardness of the water? Do you think these types of Africans can survive and thrive in soft water?

RMG


----------



## jjleetest (Mar 12, 2009)

i have the same issue, good ph/soft water...instead of making a new thread i'll comment on this one, not hijacking since it's the same issue. any remedies to increase hardness in water without chemicals that'd have to be replaced every water change?


----------



## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

Using crushed coral as a substrate will help buffer the ph but there is a lot of variability in how much it will help.

I personally feel that you will be better off using a homemade buffer recipe using baking soda and epsom salt (and even non-iodized table salt if you wish). This way you can measure out exactly how much you will need to get the desired water parameters versus just hoping that the crushed coral will do the trick. I do this and am very happy with the results... others will say that it is unnecssary...

The bottom line is that generally your ph will be directly correlated with your kh reading. And the bigger issue is pH stability. I would argue that Africans will do just as fine in a pH of 7.0 as they would in a pH of 8.0 (which is in the often suggested range) as long as the pH does not shift all that much. Before I used a buffer I had a kh reading of about 5 and my pH would shift from 7.8 to 8.2 in a 12 hour period. I use baking soda to get my kh up to about 11-13 and now my pH is a consistent 8.3. Since I started adding baking soda anyway I figured "why not add some epsom salt to raise gh and see what that does?" So I did... gH is now about 11-13 as well and I add about a teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons of water as well. In my opinion, the buffer really has made a significant difference. My fish are all extremely healthy and colors seem much more vibrant!


----------



## jjleetest (Mar 12, 2009)

so you use 1 tspn of epsom salt per 5 gallons

how much baking soda per x gallons?

what about during and after water changes?


----------



## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Having stable parameters is generally more important than having specific numbers...

I would imagine softening water, then immediately using a buffer to 'harden' it... would result in unstable parameters...

How difficult would it be to install a tap before the water softener? It just sounds impractical to me to be flipping it back and forth...


----------



## edouthirt (Jan 22, 2008)

> so you use 1 tspn of epsom salt per 5 gallons
> 
> how much baking soda per x gallons?
> 
> what about during and after water changes?


I use 1 teaspoon each of epsom salt, baking soda, and non-iodized table salt per every 5 gallons of dechlorinated tap water. But you need to do a little experiment with your tap water to see what exactly your dosing regimen should be.

Let 5 gallons of dechlorinated tap water sit for 24 hrs (I did it with an airstone... probably not necessary though) then test ph, kh, and gh to get your starting parameters and then add your buffer recipe in very small amounts (don't mix the ingredients yet as you need to know how much of what to add). Add and then test 24 hrs later and repeat this process until the desired parameters are achieved.

Now, you know how much of each ingredient you need per 5 gallons.

At first you want to make this change very slowly. I did it over a period of a week... adding some every other day. Once the tank is at the parameters you want, during water changes you simply add the dosage for the amount of water you're replacing. I do this when the tank is refilling... I take a cup of tank water and add the total dosage to it... stir it up really good to get it all to dissolve... then I slowly add it back to the tank while it is filling.



> Having stable parameters is generally more important than having specific numbers...
> 
> I would imagine softening water, then immediately using a buffer to 'harden' it... would result in unstable parameters...
> 
> How difficult would it be to install a tap before the water softener? It just sounds impractical to me to be flipping it back and forth...


This is the whole reason I started adding a buffer to begin with, because my ph would not stay steady without it. I cannot say for absolute certainty that the ph swing of up to .4 each day was actually harmful to the fish, but knowing that the pH now rests at 8.3 with virtually no shift at all helps me sleep better at night, and from what I can tell the fish really seem to enjoy it.

If the the tap water before reaching the softener is suitable for the job then by all means use it without a buffer... but a homemade buffer recipe is most definitely a viable alternative.


----------



## Steve St.Laurent (Oct 2, 2008)

I have a water softener on our whole house as well. My water comes out of the tap at a PH of 8.3, kh 19, gh 0 (yes, zero). I also have ~120 lbs of holey rock and ~80 lbs of Eco complete cichild sand in my 90 gallon tank (for buffers). I use Seachems cichlid salts to raise the GH and put just shy of 1 tsp per 5 gallons in and that raises my GH to 15. My Ph is ROCK stable - it's never wavered from 8.3 at all. I've almost gone through 1 1.4kg bottle of the salts in 7 months while doing a minimum of 50 percent water changes weekly (had some illness issues that caused me to change it more a few months ago) - that bottle cost $17.49, for a cost of ~$2.50/month.

I'd have your water tested for Ph, Gh, and Kh and see what it comes out of the tap at and then let it sit for a week and see what it tests at then and go from there. If your Kh is high even after the softener and your Ph is up there then I doubt you'll have trouble and you can raise the Gh pretty easily with something like the salts.


----------

