# Firemouth mating



## Guapoako318 (Dec 14, 2006)

As i mentioned in a previous post, I have a 29g with a couple of Firemouth Cichlids that are still young and at about 2.5'. I would like to make a pair if that is even possible in a smaller aquarium. So my dilemma is, how should I go about creating a pair? I have a few tetras in the aquarium as well, but they can be moved to my empty spare 10g. I read somewhere that introducing 6 together should ultimately leave you with a pair, but the problem is I think keeping 6 in a 29g would quickly result in casualties. I could keep any injured fish in my smaller tank until I return them and if more than 1 pair is formed my cousin would like something in his 55 that is still cycling.


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## Gervahlt (Jun 25, 2009)

I would add six or seven total firemouths to a 29 without much thought. As long as they're juveniles and have lots of hiding spots, as well as line-of-sight breaks, I doubt you'd have any serious damage at all. Maybe a scale or two missing, or maybe someone hanging out up by the filter intake, but that's about it. I would get some good dithers (zebra danios work well for firemouths in my experience, but anything fast and more of a top swimmer would work fine) so they don't feel they have to hide all the time. Most of the time firemouths will only pay attention to non-con-specifics if they're invading their territory, but they do like to see other fish out swimming. My pair formed when the smaller of the two was at about 3".

Once you see a pair, remove the other firemouths as a 29 gallon is NOT big enough for more than a single adult pair. You can try to leave the other four or five together in another tank to look for a second pairing if you like, otherwise return them to your lfs for store credit.


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## Gervahlt (Jun 25, 2009)

Just stressing one thing in my previous comment: line of sight breaks are key to controlling firemouth aggression. If they don't see enemies, they typically patrol their territory about 60% of the time. The other 40% will be mitigated by hiding spots and the ability of the victims to get out of sight in other areas of the tank.


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## Guapoako318 (Dec 14, 2006)

I have 2 small caves, a rock pile and a bunch of plastic plants. I think they should have enough hideouts. I have 5 black skirt tetras that have survived breeding cons so i think they'll manage. The biggest downside seems to be the major water changes I'll have to do every week until they pair. How long does it usually take for firemouths to pair?


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## Gervahlt (Jun 25, 2009)

I've heard everything from 2.5" and up. I've never had a pair under 3" (Total Length) myself.


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## blusue2 (Sep 9, 2010)

Can you describe the best things to use for a line of sight break? i am also working with firemouth cichlids, and am new at all of this. I have a 55 gallon tank, with lots of places for them to hide. I only hve 3 firemouths.


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## Gervahlt (Jun 25, 2009)

In a 55, I can see it being able to handle two breeding pairs of firemouths. What I would do (I currently only have one breeding pair in my 55), is set up a flower pot or cave in each end, then put a rock pile in the middle with full coverage from front to back of the tank at least as tall as the two flowerpots...maybe up to 2" higher. This way, if the firemouths are just protecting their mating area, they can't see the mating area of the other pair.

Anything would work though, it doesn't have to be rock. It just needs to block the view from each territory to the other areas. In the case where you're still waiting for the firemouths to pair off and have 6 juveniles just banging around, you'll need to be a bit more creative. Face any caves away from each other. Put high decorations in between them, or create a screen of plants (fake or real) between them. The idea is that when a firemouth is protecting its territory, you want to limit it from seeing other firemouths. The more they see of each other, the more you'll see aggression.


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## blusue2 (Sep 9, 2010)

Thanks for the explanation. Very clear information. I have all the stuff you mentioned, pots, rocks, plants, etc. But they aren't arranged the way you described. It's going to be a simple thing to take some water out during a weekly change, and rearrange a few items. I may get a few more plants. I think two of the three have paired off already--they hang out together in one corner of the tank, and won't let the other one anywhere near that side of the tank.


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## MenderofRoads (Sep 18, 2010)

I'm also curious about firemouth pairing.

I've got six right now in a 55. They're all very small, more or less an inch long (some may be a bit smaller). The only other fish in the tank is a bristlenose pleco.

What I'm wondering is what else I could keep in the 55 with one breeding pair. Based on this thread, it looks like one option is a second breeding pair (hadn't considered that). What other options do I have? I'm considering pretty much all options (other cichlid, several smaller fish, a mix, etc). I've never had firemouths before and don't really know how aggressive they are (what they'll kill, what will go after them).


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## Gervahlt (Jun 25, 2009)

Well, the main thing to remember is that if you want to keep the fry, and you want other fish in the tank, you're going to have to remove the fry (and quite possibly the female as well to keep the male from pounding on her once the fry is removed). With that in mind, whatever is in a 55g with breeding firemouths will need to be able to take some abuse. Not too much, but enough that any time they get near the pair's territory, they can get hit a few times. Since you're working in a smallish tank, that'll happen a lot.

Most of the aggression you'll see up until eggs are laid will be flaring, territorial displays with the odd actual hit. If there are any other firemouths in the tank, they'll be the targets the vast majority of the time. Hits from firemouths don't do much actual damage, but given time and continual stress, it can be enough to kill another fish. They've shredded fins and removed a few scales from my 7" severum and my 8" pleco (fins on the pleco, not scales obviously). This from a 4" male FM and a 3.5" female.

After the eggs are laid, the aggression levels go up. ANYTHING coming near the eggs or fry WILL be attacked until it leaves or the FM is dead from defending its young. At one point this last brood, I thought I'd have to remove the pleco when both the male and female ganged up on him, but he holed up away from them and has been much more cautious around their fry since then. Also note that if you're leaving the fry in the tank, the parents will move them from one pit to the next every day or two. This means the territory they defend changes daily and any other fish in the tank will be taught the hard way where the new area is. If you're trying to have two pairs in the same tank, I would doubt that you can leave the fry in at all or else you'll have dead FMs (I haven't actually tried this).

The best bet is to let the fry hatch, wait until they become free-swimming, then siphon them out of the tank and rear them separately. Again, watch to make sure you don't have to remove one or both of the pair if they become too violent towards each other or other fish. Or you could remove the pair BEFORE they lay eggs and keep your community tank intact.

So, to finally answer your actual question, I'd say keep any tank mates larger than the FMs without being too aggressive on their own. I've had good luck with a pleco, a severum, and other firemouths. I've lucked out with a couple of juvenile Texas, but they'd be way too brutal for the FMs once they're adult. I could see a number of other fish working as well, but I haven't actually tried: silver dollars, congo tetras, or convicts among them; but that is purely a guess based on the FMs I've had.


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