# Growing out some P. Saulosi



## cosmiccow (Jun 10, 2007)

Hi,
I've been growing out a batch of fry for the first time. I have about 20 fry purebred. They are in their own grow out tank. My question is the rate of growth. They are about 10 weeks old. It seems that about half of them are significantly largers than the others. Can any assumptions be made of sex based on rate of growth? Is it normal for different sizes at the same age?

Thanks,
Tony


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

It is normal for some fry to outcompete others, and outgrow others. It isn't necessarily based on gender.


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## cosmiccow (Jun 10, 2007)

Would there be any advantage of raising the faster growers over the slower ones? Would they be considered "better stock"?


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

cosmiccow said:


> Would there be any advantage of raising the faster growers over the slower ones? Would they be considered "better stock"?


Nope. What I typically do is the ones that color up, I move to a new tank if possible. That allows other males to color up. What I look for then is the best coloring for the male when I put them all together. Nice even barring that is complete and completely straight. For every bar on the left side, there is a bar on the right side. I look for a nice blue color and one that isn't overly aggressive.


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## ademb (Nov 19, 2008)

how quick should they colour up chapman? *** got a male thats prolly 3 inches or a bit under, with 3 females and he is still majority yellow, with a blue tinge that is strongest at the face but lessens towards the rear.

I have two maingano in the tank aswell at the moment, reckon their blue/black colouring is holding my saulosi back?


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

If the male is about 3" - and still not showing blue I would contribute it to either not being a male or being subdominant in the tank.


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

ademb said:


> how quick should they colour up chapman? I've got a male thats prolly 3 inches or a bit under, with 3 females and he is still majority yellow, with a blue tinge that is strongest at the face but lessens towards the rear.
> 
> I have two maingano in the tank aswell at the moment, reckon their blue/black colouring is holding my saulosi back?


At 3 inches and only a hint of blue, you most likely have yourself a dominant female. In my tank i have 6 f1. There is one male that is almost 2 1/2 and just about completely colored up. The largest fish in the group is a 3 1/2 inch female though, she has a decent amount of black on her fins and a bluish tint to her scales. Yesterday she and another female spawned, both were releasing eggs, she wouldnt let the male get anywhere near the spawning site.


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## ademb (Nov 19, 2008)

dammit lol, that was not the answer i was hoping to hear!

My search may have to continue then for a male lol


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Males are usually a dime a dozen with Saulosi. It shouldn't be difficult to find one. Usually 75% of my spawns have been male.


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## thevein (May 10, 2006)

i've had a few males not show until late, 3", it really depends how many other males are in the tank. I've raised several hundred of these guys and they are typically very male heavy. On the flip side I also have a 3" confirmed female that has turned on a blue hint with bars due to some tank competition


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## krellious (Jan 17, 2007)

Floridagirl said:


> Males are usually a dime a dozen with Saulosi. It shouldn't be difficult to find one. Usually 75% of my spawns have been male.


But finding a decent one in Sydney is the hard part  
My colony is always breeding but i cant grow the fry up fast enough.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Krellious, That means business is good for you!
Ademb, Good Luck finding a male.


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## ademb (Nov 19, 2008)

well blow me down, happened to walk into one of the local aquariums today and im now the proud owner of a 3" male, all coloured up and good to go, he has been in the tank a few hours and seems to be quite happy with his 4 female companions.

going to take the maingano out this weekend i think. Keep the tank all happy and hopefully get some fry going


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

Congrats! Just to answer your question, a male will typically begin the change by about 1.5" or so and should be done by about 2".

Floridagirl is right, I've NEVER heard about someone having the look for a saulosi male.

Good luck with the breeding! They're one of my two favorite mbuna.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Awesome! Congratulations! I too love Saulosi. They will give you LOTS of babies.


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## krellious (Jan 17, 2007)

Floridagirl said:


> Krellious, That means business is good for you!
> Ademb, Good Luck finding a male.


I just cant get the fry to grow up fast enough. looks like i need to actually do more water changes


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## cosmiccow (Jun 10, 2007)

Hi, 
The reason I asked the original question regarding the rate of growth was because I seperated out 5 of the largest juveniles and put them back in my 55 with their parents. If I had to guess, 3 to 4 of them look like they will turn out male. They are definetly too young to even tell, but they sure look "male" to me. And if P. saulosi are male heavy per clutch, then maybe my "assumption" regarding gender and rate of growth[/list] "may for this species" be correct? I also took 5 of the smallest juveniles and put them in my 55 community (mbuna) tank at work. It will be interesting to see if those are more female (%) as they grow out?
Thanks for all the replies!
Tony


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

Since there are many saulosi owners watching this topic............ Do any of your saulosi have more than 1 egg spot. I have seen friends fish, and even my own males only ever have the one egg spot. My most dominant female and my least dominant female also have hard to see, but none the less there.....egg spots as well.


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## ademb (Nov 19, 2008)

my new male and the dominant female both have 1 egg spot each. the 3 smaller saulosi don't have anything there


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## cosmiccow (Jun 10, 2007)

Not the best photo. This guy shows two egg spots.


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

That doesnt look like a saulosi to me.


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## cosmiccow (Jun 10, 2007)

I think he is one, but I'm no expert. I bought him as a juvenile and he was totally yellow. I also can not claim he is a great specimen, but I like him!

This is him at a young age.


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

bac3492 said:


> That doesnt look like a saulosi to me.


I agree. That is not a saulosi. I count at least 9 bars. The bars are also too thin and too close together. All the saulosi I've ever raised have had between 5-7 bars visible bars. Also, the spots on the dorsal fin aren't "normal" for saulosi either.



















These are a couple of the males I've had. Typically my males have between 1-3. I've only had a handful of females with any eggspots. Heck, it took me quite awhile before I even had one with one.


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## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

Mine looks slightly different from yours too.

My males are a yellow instead of that orange coloratioin

My male looks more like the first picture than the second as well.

Im not sure what kind of fish comiscow posted. The second one comiscow posted does look like a transforming male.


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## cosmiccow (Jun 10, 2007)

I thought originally when he was turning blue that he may not be a Ps. saulosi. I posted this originally in the Unidentified forum:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=

The replies came back as saulosi. I have always been suspect, but like I said , I like him!


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

cosmiccow said:


> I thought originally when he was turning blue that he may not be a Ps. saulosi. I posted this originally in the Unidentified forum:
> 
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=
> 
> The replies came back as saulosi. I have always been suspect, but like I said , I like him!


It doesn't look lie my Saulosi, either. Do you have any more siblings for us to see?


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

cosmiccow said:


> I thought originally when he was turning blue that he may not be a Ps. saulosi. I posted this originally in the Unidentified forum:
> 
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=
> 
> The replies came back as saulosi. I have always been suspect, but like I said , I like him!


Only one person said saulosi. In a transition state, it's also more difficult to tell.


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

bac3492 said:


> Mine looks slightly different from yours too.
> 
> My males are a yellow instead of that orange coloratioin
> 
> My male looks more like the first picture than the second as well.


There are two "strains" of saulosi as I put it. Not sure what to call them. Ones with more orange and ones with more yellow. I've been more partial to the orange ones. I've seen both come in as WC so I don't think that has anything to do with it. Maybe a slightly different collection place in Taiwanee Reef. Not sure.

Males can vary a bit as far as barring goes. The one in the second picture was a male from the male in the first picture and one of the WC females I kept.


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## malawimix (Oct 8, 2008)

I have the yellow type but would prefer the orange. Seems I always want what I can't find  .
I have 5 adults now and have traded off several others and every one of them had only one egg spot. The males' spot was brighter, more distinct than the females' spot.


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## krellious (Jan 17, 2007)

bac3492 said:


> Since there are many saulosi owners watching this topic............ Do any of your saulosi have more than 1 egg spot. I have seen friends fish, and even my own males only ever have the one egg spot. My most dominant female and my least dominant female also have hard to see, but none the less there.....egg spots as well.


My dom male has 2 spots. I have 2 females in a tank fighting amongst themselves to be dom female. 1 has 1 spot the other doesn't


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## krellious (Jan 17, 2007)

bac3492 said:


> Since there are many saulosi owners watching this topic............ Do any of your saulosi have more than 1 egg spot. I have seen friends fish, and even my own males only ever have the one egg spot. My most dominant female and my least dominant female also have hard to see, but none the less there.....egg spots as well.


My dom male has 2 spots. I have 2 females in a tank fighting amongst themselves to be dom female. 1 has 1 spot the other doesn't


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## StructureGuy (Jul 27, 2002)

bac3492 said:


> That doesnt look like a saulosi to me.





chapman76 said:


> I agree. That is not a saulosi.


I agree. Here's my "one-spot" saulosi below:
















Compare to yours above.

Kevin


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## letstalkfish (Dec 25, 2008)

StructureGuy said:


> bac3492 said:
> 
> 
> > That doesnt look like a saulosi to me.
> ...


looks like a socolofi to me


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

I doubt it since it was yellow as a juvie. Would be a saulosi/socolofi hybrid though.


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## cosmiccow (Jun 10, 2007)

So it appears that my guy is a hybrid. He was definetly yellow as a juvenile. Is it normal for a saulosi cross to be born yellow and then change to blue?


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

cosmiccow said:


> So it appears that my guy is a hybrid. He was definetly yellow as a juvenile. Is it normal for a saulosi cross to be born yellow and then change to blue?


I would say that is hard to know. Hybrids are kind of unpredictable as far as characteristics go - they can show anything from either parent.


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## ademb (Nov 19, 2008)

heres the picture of the "male" i thought i had. now that *** got a definite male saulosi in the tank it does seem to have a bit of a deeper blue tinge but still majority yellow.

wat do u guys think?


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## letstalkfish (Dec 25, 2008)

You know could also be a cichlid that hasnt been classified or found yet maybe you have a rare cichlid. Or it could be a hybred of some sort.


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## letstalkfish (Dec 25, 2008)

You know could also be a cichlid that hasnt been classified or found yet maybe you have a rare cichlid. Or it could be a hybred of some sort.


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