# Mixing sa with africans



## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

I am putting this up to maybe help people who are wondering if they can put SA with African cichlids. The answer is no, they have diferent water perameters and I dont care if people said there friend says its ok or i scene it somewere else and it worked. Please be responsible fish keeper's and do not mix these fish together it rarely works. Thats my rant for the day and I can not stand it when people try to justify keeping them together.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

The problem is, what are we talking about with respect to African cichlids? Which part of Africa are we talking about? Are we talking South American cichilds, or Central American cichlids? Which ones specifically?

In some cases, there are African cichlids with water parameter requirements closer to South American, than other parts of Africa. Similarily, the water paraments for many Central American cichlids, is not too different from Lake Malawi.


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

Yes south american new world cichlids beign kept with african mbunas peacocks and higher ph level hard water conditions. Specifically jd, oscars, cons etc with african fish from rigt lakes.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

torin32 said:


> Yes south american new world cichlids beign kept with african mbunas peacocks and higher ph level hard water conditions. Specifically jd, oscars, cons etc with african fish from rigt lakes.


JD's and convicts are not South American. They are Central American. Their natural water parameters are not significantly different than Lake Malawi.


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

Alright go mix them and come back and tell me what happens than.


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

just a little profile of jd of a site. For an example. I dont see african there I will agree you use a divider but not mix. There is a diference with ph aswell. Even diet if your with certain africans.

Possible Tank Mates: Very intolerant of other species but some have had success with firemouth meeki, convicts, green terrors, pictus catfish and plecos

Diet: mnivorous - does well with pellet or flake food and live worms, krill or brine shrimp.

ph range: pH 7.0

http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/ce ... 100011.asp


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

torin32 said:


> just a little profile of jd of a site. For an example. I dont see african there I will agree you use a divider but not mix. There is a diference with ph aswell. Even diet if your with certain africans.
> 
> Possible Tank Mates: Very intolerant of other species but some have had success with firemouth meeki, convicts, green terrors, pictus catfish and plecos
> 
> ...


Your very link quotes their ph range as 6.5 to 7.8ph, while the range for Malawians they list is 7.4 to 8.6.

That seems to be an overlap to me.

There are dietary variances that are quite large in Lake Malawi too... Of course, with prepared pellets, fish of different natural diets can be kept together.

Now, I am not one to mix these fish anyway, but in very large tanks, it can, and has been done, with no issues with regards to water, or feeding. The main issue comes down to behaviour and tank size.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Water parameters are not a reason to keep, the continents separate, since most of us have water that will support any of these fish right from the tap. Mixing Aricans and SA or CA cichlids, may alter their behaviour, which defeats the reason for keeping them. So, while I wouldn't mix the continents, others have done so successfully, so I have to agree with Fogelhund on this.


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

So your basically saying you would not which would be most people who have kept or have good knowledge of keeping. But on the other hand it had been done sucessfully of coarse it has but how often sucessfully vs how bad things turn out. So you say fogelhund is making more sence. Here is my question when you go to a good reputable store do you see jd mixed in a mabuina tank. Doubt it.


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

I have to disagree with torin32. I have a mixed tank with all male, green terror, red devil, and two jack demseys with all male mbunas mixed in with male peacocks and haps. They are all in a 220 gallon tank. Everyone gets along. There is no aggression except maybe some occasional chasing of the africans amongst themselves. The tank has been up and running for over 8 months. When I was a teenager I also had a smaller tank with similar type fish together and had no problems also. I really like seeing the mixture of fish interacting together. I have had no issues with the 8.5 ph of the tank and the hard water for the CA and African types.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

torin32 said:


> So your basically saying you would not which would be most people who have kept or have good knowledge of keeping. But on the other hand it had been done sucessfully of coarse it has but how often sucessfully vs how bad things turn out. So you say fogelhund is making more sence. Here is my question when you go to a good reputable store do you see jd mixed in a mabuina tank. Doubt it.


It doesn't matter whether it is successful all the time, or even any of the time. Your reason for not doing it is wrong. All those fish in the separate tanks are in the same water.


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## leftfish (Apr 27, 2010)

I have Jurupari, Firemouth, EB Jack Demp and Ramziri in with my Mbunas and Haps and all play nicely. They've been together 1 1/2 years with no problems so far other than the usual chasing among the Mbunas.

To me it all matters more where the fish were raised. All my fish come from the same 2 LFS's who keep all their water the same ph. They say that Southern California has the best tap water for cichlids and everyone from all over loves it.

Dan


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There are enough posts by members here about bad experiences with combinations like JDs and Rift Lake Africans to make me avoid the hemisphere mixes.


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

> "have Jurupari, Firemouth, EB Jack Demp and Ramziri in with my Mbunas and Haps and all play nicely. They've been together 1 1/2 years with no problems so far other than the usual chasing among the Mbunas.
> 
> To me it all matters more where the fish were raised. All my fish come from the same 2 LFS's who keep all their water the same ph. They say that Southern California has the best tap water for cichlids and everyone from all over loves it.


 No offence but it sounds like what I have been saying hey it worked for me. Like DHRansome has posted read on here and I bet you find more people who it has not worked out for them vs everything works. When your jd get 10 to 12 inches big are they going to play nice with 4 inch mbuna doubt it. I am happy it works for some but my point is for beginers not to attempt unatural habbitats. This is the point we keep fish to represent a little piece of were the fish comes from that is why we mimic there conditions and tank mates as they were in the natural world. Well atleast thats why I got into fish keeping, Not to go oh wow thats cool i like that and just through it in the tank IMPULSE BUYERS are the worst. Just my opinion.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

torin32 said:


> This is the point we keep fish to represent a little piece of were the fish comes from that is why we mimic there conditions and tank mates as they were in the natural world. .


That might be why you and I keep the fish the way we do, but that doens't mean everybody shares that viewpoint, and we should respect that others are entitled to keep fish for whatever selfish reasons they have. Most often, mixes don't work because the tank is too small for that mix. This includes mixing some mbuna species, with other mbuna species, let alone mbuna with large Central Americans. I call it fish soup, not my cup of tea, but if it makes someone else happy... who am I to say differently?


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*torin32*

I mix continents... 20 yrs of cichlid keeping, countless species bred, cichlids that died of old age... water parameters, behavior, communication, etc. Are they not simply challenges that knowledge, experience and a careful plan can compensate for?

Why are "impulse buyers" the worst? I've bought many a fish on impulse. I bring them home, place then in a quarantine tank alone, go research the species and what I need to do to care for them.

Why is that "the worst". Personally I see it as worse when folks do research, ignore warnings in favor of something that they liked to hear better and bought a species to go cram it into an unsuitable home. That's my personal opinion... it usually stays a personal opinion with an emphasis on the personal part. :lol:


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

Well thanks for all the comments this will be my last post on this subject thread. Everyone has the right to there own opinion most kept this civil and I thank you all. My stance still has not changed I think most who mix will have poblems on the most side I understand sometimes especially larger tanks will work. I am tlaking about the majority though. Anywyas good thread thanks for the repplies. Peace out. Cheers.


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

torin32 said:


> Alright go mix them and come back and tell me what happens than.


My boyfriend wanted to put his male Convict in my African tank because he was getting his butt kicked by the dom (what we thought was female, but now know as male) green terror in his tank...

I was like, if he's getting whooped in that tank, my fish will kill him. Doesn't matter if he's twice their size. My fish are vicious  <-Though sometimes I wish they weren't. :roll:

I don't like mixing, but I've heard success. You need to be careful. I have enough trouble trying to get my mbunas --from the same lake-- to coexist without throwing in something from another continent


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

torin32 said:


> I bet you find more people who it has not worked out for them vs everything works.


How do you supose to know that? Especially considering, from what I understand,, you have never even tried it yourself!

Of course it's going to matter what size the tank is, and what particular species are mixed, amongst other factors. For example, a rainbow cichlid is not likely to do well with auratus even in large tanks, but in my experience , works fine with salvini in 4-6 ft. tanks. For the last 10 years I have always had at least 1 aggressive mbuna with salvini --- and it's worked fine for me. I'd venture to say that all the mbuna that I am currently keeping, in 3 mixed tanks, auratus, kenyi, P. crabo, and an mbuna hybrid (kenyi X P. elongatus?) might be deadly killers in some tanks, but are no problem to me, as they are never the most dominant fish in the tank.

Of course when things don't work out, mixing in general gets blamed right away. Not the size of tank or the particular species chosen. Just mixing, itself. Lot's and lot's of tanks where similar types of fishes did not work out ----yet nobody would ever say it's because you didn't mix :lol: Conspecific aggression is not a pretend thing. Yet when things don't work out with similar types of fishes, nobody ever evokes a rule against keeping similar fishes in the same tank. How many times have people had male C.A. kill the female? How many times, over the long run, do male C.A. end up growing completely intolerant of other C.A. male(s)? Don't kid yourself ---high probability over the long term; nothing too unusual even in some very large tanks.

When I started keeping fish it was generally considered acceptable to mix west african cichlids with CA/SA, but not with rift lake cichlids. Even fish shows only had 2 classes of cichlids: 1)Rift lake cichlids and 2)all others (that's right, C.A., S.A., west Africans and Asians all in the same class :lol: ). But I nver accepted this rule; it's somebody elses rule, not mine. There is nothing special about coming from lake Malawi, as aposed to any other lake or river in Africa. I've mixed for over 30 years now, and have yet to see any REAL problems with it. From my experience I have learnt a few things: peacocks don't usually do well with aggressive C.A. but do even worse with aggressive mbuna. With large aggressive C.A., the large Tilapines, IME, generally fare much better then large haps. But all in all, it 'works' for me.


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