# Possible stock for a 125?



## Iggy Newcastle

I asked a question about my water working for American cichlids earlier this year. The responses were encouraging, here: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=255121

Anyways, I have a brand new 6' 125 gallon that was originally intended to replace an older 125 that my Africans were in. Well, they got a bigger tank. This leaves me with an empty 125. While the title of this post is vague, I am not sure where to start, nor do I have a must have fish to build upon. There are so many gorgeous fish to pick from. While I do not want to cram as many fish into it as possible, I also am not interested in a single wet pet or even a single pair of fish. I prefer a biotope setting and aquascape. What I would like to accomplish, as well, is choosing fish that occur in the same areas in the wild. Possibly a school(s) of native swordfish, barbs, tetras, etc.(realize this may limit my options) I know... pretty picky.

I'd like to incorporate plants(not mandatory but preferred) and this piece of driftwood:









Species I like, but know little about...
Thorichthys species
Hypsophrys
Salvini
Rocio- JD

Well... that's about how far I've gotten. I have noticed there is a lot more info, articles, pictures, etc. on this site for Africans.

Any advice, suggestions or answers welcomed. Thanks...


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## NZSIC'S

The Salvini I got 4 days ago is easily the most aggressive fish in my Tank... he recently has started harassing my JD (who is slightly larger), and my clown loaches are hiding all the time now!

Of course he still gets out of the way of the Tiger Oscar and the Severum... will post on Youtube when I have some time.


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## meli

Sounds like you have a pretty aggresive mix to start out with. I would be concerned about the clowns and the oscar being able to survive the other guys! Unfortunetly with a mix of aggressive fish, like you have, it will be trial and error. Good luck!


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## Cichlidman14

If you want a natural setup, a pair of fire mouth cichlids for the centerpiece, all male swordtails as dithers, and I'm not sure about bottom dwellers, ill have to come back to u on that


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## Iggy Newcastle

meli said:


> Sounds like you have a pretty aggresive mix to start out with. I would be concerned about the clowns and the oscar being able to survive the other guys! Unfortunetly with a mix of aggressive fish, like you have, it will be trial and error. Good luck!


What are you referring to as clowns? Excuse my ignorance. I did not list Oscars.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Cichlidman14 said:


> If you want a natural setup, a pair of fire mouth cichlids for the centerpiece, all male swordtails as dithers, and I'm not sure about bottom dwellers, ill have to come back to u on that


Why all male swordtails?

I was hoping to have another species other than one pair with a 6' tank.

Thanks for the reply.


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## Cichlidman14

All male swordtails would look nice with the swords, you would also see pecking orders being established. Since it's a 6 foot tank u can get away with 2 pairs of firemouths though watch out for territorial issues. Bottom feeders could be bristle nose plecos


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## Cichlidman14

Also ho about some nice big amazon swords, and maybe a pair of apistogramma unless you want to keep it natural with fish that live in the same region.


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## Iggy Newcastle

I see.

As far as Apistos go, and rams, geos, etc... They come from SA and require much softer water than what I have. I'm not against altering water chemistry with peat or whatever, but not a fan of using chemicals either. Also, I'd like to keep some larger fish in a tank this size.


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## CjCichlid

Every species on your list except for the Nics can be found in Mexico. If you're wanting to setup a loose biotope, a Mexican "theme" would be a great way to go as it gives you many options to choose from. All the fish currently in my 135gal are from Mexico minus my pair of C. sajica. I too was going for a Mexican themed biotope but in the end couldn't part with my sajica.

If I was to stock your aquarium I'd consider doing something along these lines..

- Large colony of mollies or swordtails (1Male/6+Females)... I have a colony of Black Yucatan Mollies in my 135 and really like the way their solid black bodies contrast with the cichlids colors.
- Group of Thorichthys species (meeki, pasiones, ect.) I would consider a ratio of 2M/4F. Some Thorichthys do better in groups more so than others so be sure to look into that.
- I would then choose 1-3 (depending on size and demeanor) more cichlids (no pairing). Ideally, choose species that are not piscivores (fish eaters). Both Jack Dempseys and Salvini would most likely end up preying on your Mollies/Swordtails so they would not be the best of choices. A lone male Vieja/Paratheraps species could act as a great centerpiece fish.

Here's a link to a list of species found in Mexico:
http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Mexico.htm

Hope this helps!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Awesome. Thanks for the link!

I know of Vieja, and will look into the others.


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## NZSIC'S

meli said:


> Sounds like you have a pretty aggresive mix to start out with. I would be concerned about the clowns and the oscar being able to survive the other guys! Unfortunetly with a mix of aggressive fish, like you have, it will be trial and error. Good luck!


I would say the others are only mildly (big 'O', Severum) to moderately (EBJD) aggressive. But the Salvini appears to be highly aggressive.. only reason he steers clear of big 'O' and the severum is because they are so much bigger than him.

I'm going to monitor for about a week and see how things settle down...


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## Iggy Newcastle

NZSIC'S said:


> meli said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you have a pretty aggresive mix to start out with. I would be concerned about the clowns and the oscar being able to survive the other guys! Unfortunetly with a mix of aggressive fish, like you have, it will be trial and error. Good luck!
> 
> 
> 
> I would say the others are only mildly (big 'O', Severum) to moderately (EBJD) aggressive. But the Salvini appears to be highly aggressive.. only reason he steers clear of big 'O' and the severum is because they are so much bigger than him.
> 
> I'm going to monitor for about a week and see how things settle down...
Click to expand...

Now I get it...

I watched your vid the other night. The salvini looked considerably smaller than the others.


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## NZSIC'S

Yeah the Salvini is smaller but it's not stopping him from owning the EBJD! Hopefully he'll settle into the community okay.

It's quite funny I was having problems trying to get the EBJD to eat sinking pellet pieces which I crushed in a mortar and pestle (i.e. would only feed that for 1 week, and he still wouldn't eat them).. It wasn't until he saw the Salvini eating them that he started doing it also!


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## apollo240

Cichlidman14 said:


> All male swordtails would look nice with the swords, you would also see pecking orders being established. Since it's a 6 foot tank u can get away with 2 pairs of firemouths though watch out for territorial issues. Bottom feeders could be bristle nose plecos


4 tiny little firemouths in a 6 foot tank?

Youll never see the fish.


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## Iggy Newcastle

So I've been hitting the books pretty heavy. Reread some of Lee Nuttal's Central American Scene Magazine.

I love the idea of a lone vieja, but have concerns about their size. Argentea has caught my eye, but wonder if a 125 is large enough for them. I would most likely install a 3D BG, which reduces the tank depth. Thoughts on this?

I don't know anything about livebearers. Is it recommended to not mix species? I still plan on a biotope setting. So is adding a group of mollies and a group of swordtails a poor idea? As I said before, I'm not looking to cram the tank with fish, just wondering about my options.

So far I plan on starting with a group of Thorichthys(8-10) and livebearer(s).

All input welcomed. Thanks...


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## CjCichlid

Lee Nuttal is a great resource. I really enjoy reading his online magazine as well as watching his YouTube vids. Lots of inspiration from his biotopes.

I feel a lone Vieja as a center piece fish will do just fine in a 125gal. I presently have two Vieja (argentea and synspila) as well as a H. pearsi in my 135gal. Granted they are all relatively small still with my pearsi being the largest at about 5in. I don't see all three of them coexisting long term together in this size of an aquarium but as of now the only real aggression is around feeding time. I've found they pretty much completely ignore the rest of my stock (mollies, C. chets and sajica). V. argentea are a gorgeous cichlid and if you like them, I say go for it. Every fishes temperament varies so it's worth a shot. I would let the rest of the stock settle in for a week or two and introduce the Vieja last however.

As for the background, you're only working with an 18in width so I would go with a slimmer 3D background. My next tank WILL have a 3D bg though. They really set the scene for a naturalistic setup...

I have not personally mixed livebearer species but have seen it done many times. I think you would be just fine having both mollies and swords. Just be sure to have a single male of each with a harem of females.

I think you'll enjoy the group of Thorichthys, as they are very interesting to watch when kept in a small "colony". I personally would recommend T. pasiones as they seem to do the best in groups as well as be a bit more mild tempered to one another.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Thanks, once again, CJ.

The first time I saw one of Lee's videos about a year ago, I subscribed immediately. The magazine is great. Still need to go back through a few issues.

As far as BGs go I know. Take up a lot of space. I just installed one in a 180 for my Africans. They look amazing, though. I hate tank clutter, so for me it's worth it all the way.

I had it kinda narrowed down to meeki and pasionis, but partial to meeki due to their red throats. I have mbuna from Malawi and there is not a 'true' red fish amongst them. I'll keep looking into that.

Sounds good on the Vieja. I suppose it's just like Africans where it will always be trial and error. At what size can these fish and paratheraps be sexed?

I'm sure there's plenty of more questions to follow. Thank you.


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## CjCichlid

I don't blame you for wanting to go with T. meeki. I miss the pair I had as they were some of the best looking meeki I have seen. If you can come across some good specimens I wouldn't hesitate to get them. Here's a short video showing a group of meeki being kept together. I believe it's a 125gal as well..






As for sexing Vieja, they're definitely a bit trickier than some other CA's. Venting is really the only way to be 100% sure but once they get to around the 4 inch mark you can usually make a pretty good guess on the gender visually. My V. argentea is close to 4in and I am guessing it's a male. "He" has a pretty steep head profile and is already showing some nice fin extensions. I wish I had a decent camera to get pics of him... :roll:


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## Iggy Newcastle

Great video. Led me to this one: 



. Shows some of the gusto on these fish, backing down a much larger fish(maybe a Pearsi? I can't identify these CA fish, yet).

I've already been looking into sources, and came upon Rapps several months ago. May go that route when I finally get to that point. Still a month or two out, I think. Taking up another wall with a 6' tank will take a bit of convincing. Hopefully this engagement ring does the trick! :wink:

One more question... when adding something like a Vieja, and wanting a male, would purchasing 3 or 4 juveniles be the way to go? Remove the extras once sex and choice is made?


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## CjCichlid

Yep, I've seen that video as well. Great looking pair of meeki, as well as a pretty awesome setup. And you are correct, those are indeed pearsi..

As for where to source your fish, Rapps has a great reputation however I've never ordered from him. The majority of fish I purchase online have came from aquabid.com. I have had good luck with all the vendors I have done business with. Just be sure to check their reputation. If you've never been to that site, it's basically ebay only with fish.

Also, be sure to check the classifieds here:
http://www.gcca.net/

I got my C. sajica from a guy named Mario on there and couldn't have been happier. You may actually be close enough to pick them up locally, which is always a plus.

Here are a few other places to order fish online with great reps..

http://www.cichlidconnection.com/

http://www.cichlidsoftheamericas.com/


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## Iggy Newcastle

Dude... thanks a million. And I've seen Mario's ads. Bought fish through GCCA and have attended some swaps. Totally forgot about AquaBid, and familiar with the site.


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## CjCichlid

No problem man!

Just a thought... When I first was looking into adding Vieja to my setup I originally wanted Vieja heterospila. They are one of the smaller Vieja species and tend to be relatively docile in comparison to many of the others (are native to Mexico as well). I'd dare to say you could potentially keep a pair in with your proposed stock of Thorichthys and livebearers. They aren't quite as "showy" as something like V. argentea however.


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## CjCichlid

Meant to attach this link to my previous post. Great video of a community CA setup containing a V. heterospila...


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## Iggy Newcastle

Nice video. And the heterospila were definitely a vieja I jotted down. They seem to be quite variable in color, especially in that video. I'm sure they show their best when paired and spawning. I would like to plan for the long run, so they may be the better choice due to size alone. Being from Mexico is a plus as well, as I want to stick with that idea.

Please keep bouncing more ideas off me if anything else comes to mind. You've been a great help.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Anywhere in nature that Archocentrus Multispinosus would inhabit the same waterways as Thorichthys meeki? My research has brought up a 'no.'


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## CjCichlid

I believe you are correct. I don't believe they are found in the same waters anywhere. From what I have read, multispinosa are often found in seasonal pools off of main bodies of water in Honduras and Nicaragua. They are a very docile CA cichlid and would most likely not fare all that well in your setup anyway. I removed mine as they were getting beat up on far to much for my liking.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Thanks again Chris.


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## CjCichlid

No problem. Any progress with your 125 or are you still in the "dreaming" phase?


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## Iggy Newcastle

Dream phase... I like that.

Been busy, but I have the tank, stand and canopy. Picked out a BG that averages 2-3" of depth. Save much needed space. So not much progress. Just been researching, mostly.


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## CjCichlid

Ah nice, what background did you end up going with?


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## Iggy Newcastle

CjCichlid said:


> Ah nice, what background did you end up going with?


I have not pulled the trigger on it yet. I have found ones that I like better, but I could pretty much kiss a larger, centerpiece fish goodbye since they're so darn wide.

What do you think?
http://www.aquariumhabitats.com/rainforest.html
The 6' version of this is not pictured on the link, but pretty much more of the same...


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## CjCichlid

That one's not bad, but I feel it's more suited for an Amazon themed tank. I think it may also be hard to blend in your own pieces of driftwood with that background. You may want to look into one of the "slimline" 3D BG's if your main concern is the amount of space it will take up. The majority of them sit flush against the back..

Although not a slimline, I think my favorite 3D BG for a CA setup is this one: http://www.designsbynature.net/products-page/deluxe-3d-bgs/olgas/


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## CjCichlid

Here's one that is similar to the previous one I posted but is slimmer in profile so it won't take up as much space..

http://www.universalrocks.com/aquarium-reptile-pet/backgrounds/crevice-style/


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## Iggy Newcastle

I realize it's definitely more reminiscent of SA setup. Just liked how it was 2-3" in depth. I've been to the Designs by Nature website, and do like the Olgas one. Just now saw it only comes out 'a few inches.' I need to do a 3D background, and will be avoiding the slimline options. I hate tank clutter with a passion. Maybe I'll just take all your ideas, Chris....

This is the one I put in a 180. Picture is from about a week ago...


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## CjCichlid

Hah, you can use all my ideas as long as you post pics and updates!

Good point about hiding the equipment. I do believe however you can install the slimline backgrounds a few inches from the back of the aquarium using clips that are provided. However, I guess that kind of defeats the purpose of getting a slimline?

Your 180 looks good. I like the depth and of the overhang, which company did you get that one from? How long has it been setup? 3D backgrounds always look a bit sterile the first month or two but once the algea starts to grow it should look even better!


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## Iggy Newcastle

It's an AquaTerra from aquariumhabitats.com. Been setup for 3 weeks. Already have diatoms growing on the BG and rocks.


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## Iggy Newcastle

And I picked up the first piece of the puzzle today: an FX6. On sale for $284.19. Grabbed it while I was on lunch.


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## CjCichlid

Nice! That's a pretty good deal from what I've seen them going for. Are you planning on solely using that or adding something else as well?


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## Iggy Newcastle

I'm a two filters at least kinda guy. Another canister for sure. If I can avoid a HOB, I will at all costs...


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## CjCichlid

Hah, yeah I'm the same way. It's nice to have a second filter to alternate cleaning and at the very least, as a back up.

So when placing the intakes and outputs behind the background, do you just drill holes for them?


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## Iggy Newcastle

I used a hole saw. Each 'intake' is not visible from the front of the tank. That background I used has a lot of overhangs, so hiding them was easy. The return plumbing I put at the top, and did not try to 'hide' really. I wanted good surface agitation so there would be no way I would have to add a circ pump to the front and defeat the purpose of a BG. I figured the functionality of the filtration system was more important than hiding a couple of holes. I did paint the return pvc grey, so it helps, and they're flush with the background. My water is actually very clear, which I was concerned about from the start. I drilled 5) 1.5" intake holes and siliconed the provided plastic mesh over them. I teed each canister off for a total of 4) returns across the top of the tank.


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## CjCichlid

I see.. yeah I was thinking flow and good circulation could be a concern when using a BG but it sounds like you got it figured out. I've seen some people simply just throw the intake and output behind the BG with holes drilled near each of them. I think with something like that you would have very poor circulation..


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## Iggy Newcastle

I think with the 5 return holes there's pretty good flow between the front and back. I saw a long 'turd' stuck on the return mesh being violently pulled behind the background the other day. About the only time in my life I can say I was happy to see a turd being sucked around! The 2) 1400 gph circ pumps behind the BG keep things moving around nicely until they find their way into the filters. Will most likely add another smaller canister soon/in the future for BG duty only. I'll let water parameters dictate that...


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## CjCichlid

Any new updates? :fish:


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## Iggy Newcastle

Negative. We had a tenant somewhat abruptly move out. So a lot of things need to happen/happening like painting, new doors, new fridge, new stove, etc. Pain in the you butt. If I wasn't doing a BG, I could at least have it cycling. So, sorry... I got nothin


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## CjCichlid

Hah no worries.. just thought I'd check in!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Found a local source for T. Meeki. Could I add a group of 10 2" fish to a 40 breeder to start growing out? Too many? These will end up in the 125, of course...


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## CjCichlid

I don't see why not.. They are slow growers so good call getting them now. It'll give them a nice head start!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Thanks Chris.

Hopefully get them soon, then.


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## CjCichlid

Sounds good! And remember.. pics or it never happened!


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## Iggy Newcastle

So I did not get the Meeki for the 40 breeder. Since there were no pictures, I'm sure it was assumed it never happened... :wink:

I have been considering something other than Meeki from the Thorichthys complex, and wanted to ask about Maculipinnis.

From what I've read, they're considered to be more difficult to keep than Meeki, Pasiones, etc. Water quality, temp and diet are mentioned. I found this article from the Cichlid Room Companion. Here's an excerpt...



> Some guidelines for aquarium maintenance
> 
> Thorichthys maculipinnis can be kept and bred successfully under aquarium conditions. Good water quality is a must for ensuring healthy fishes, which otherwise easily succumb to internal and external bacterial infections. The pH and the hardness of the water are not critical, as long as the water parameters do not differ highly from those found in their natural habitat, water should be free of ammonia and nitrite. Water temperaturure should be a special concern, T. maculipinnis is found in water that ranges from 22 to 28°C, and they seem to suffer when kept outside this range


This seems very easy to maintain. Anything else worth noting for these fish? I really do like them. Not sure how they fare with larger fish, which I'm still planning, but read it can be done in larger aquaria. I would think a 6' tank fits that bill, but what the heck do I know?!

On a side note, I'm finishing up the delivery options with a supplier for some swordtails. Xiphophorus alvarezi. This is a wild type, native to Mexico. Anyways... here's a picture of a mature male and some info on them...












> Striking for its intense red color, this population of
> Xiphophorus alvarezi is possibly the most intensely
> colored wild swordtail available. Quite hardy and prolific,
> they are sleeker and slightly smaller than the X. mayae.
> Though a number of mutations have appeared in the
> last couple years (see below), the wild, natural form is
> impossible to improve upon.


Pretty amazing looking, no?

Still have that 40 breeder open, and now that things have settled down around here, I want to get some Thoricthys growing out in it...


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## Pseudeotropheus BB

I am not a fan of swords but I have to admit that is a gorgeous fish.


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## Iggy Newcastle

bump...


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## ahud

Sorry if I missed anything, I just read your original post.

Thorichtys- Are fun, and more fun in groups. But maintaining a group is a bit harder than I expected, plenty of line of sight breaks and a complex aquascape is needed. Sometimes this makes the tank look less appealing unless your really talented. I tried meeki my first time, and they were a lot more aggressive than I anticipated. I plan on giving a thorichthy group another shot down the road, but I'll try to get my hands on socolofi.

Swordtails are awesome, and in my opinion they are an essential piece of a Central American tank. Just take a look at Lee Nuttals tanks, I feel the swords add a lot to those tanks.

I'm probably beating a dead horse since my last posts have mentioned them, but check into rainbows (Archocentrus Multispinosus), as they have a lot to offer in a big tank. Here is a link to the article I am basing my current project on, I always get good tank ideas from Pauls articles. http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=50
The idea is to have a lot of pairs, constant activity and spawning, and be able to observe all of the misc behaviors that a big group of a single species offers. If you feel inclined, I think some of the mellow Cryptoheros could mix well with the rainbows, such as Honduran red points, chetumalensis, or nanos.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Thanks. What size tank did you try the Meeki group in? How many did you have in there?

Lee's tanks are an inspiration. Too bad we can't get those Back to Nature backgrounds here in the states. Oh, and having a 390 gallon aquarium also helps...

I brought up Rainbows(multispinosus) earlier in the thread. They are truly beautiful fish, but they do not hail from Mexico, and that is what this whole tank is centered on. I've opened that link to the Cichlid Room Companion, and will check it out later. Always good info on there...

I'm pretty dead set on Thorichthys, but do appreciate the suggestions.


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## ahud

I had the meeki in a 125g, and I started with 15. I was planning on thinning as needed. You could for sure pull it off, just make sure there are a lot of escape routes and line of sight breaks.


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## CjCichlid

Iggy,

Haven't been on here in for what seems like forever! Work, school and life in general have been keeping me busy. Glad to see your thread updated though! As for T. maculipinnis is concerned, I have no experience with them. I too have heard that they are more sensitive and particular as you mentioned in your previous post. I have also heard that they can be a bit more aggressive towards con-specifics when compared to meeki and pasiones. By no means do I want to steer you away from them as they are a great looking Thorichthys species, however keep in mind they may not fair as well in a group as the other two mentioned.

The swords your getting look awesome! I wish I could find some good looking swords locally. Where did you order yours from?


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## Iggy Newcastle

Thanks ahud. So at what point did you throw in the towel on the Meeki in the 125? Did you have anything else in the tank with them? Just wondering...

Chris- Yea I'm still undecided even as of right now. I'll be talking with a supplier tomorrow about a different matter, who has Pasiones, and see what they think. I'll send you a PM on the swordtails. My order of swords arrives Friday. I'll actually be home to receive fish. Usually I plan the delivery when my fiance is at home so someone can acclimate immediately. I had the day off to recover from a concert in the city so it made sense to get them on that day.


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## ahud

Hi Iggy,

The meeki had some type of crazy disease, ended up passing it to my other fish and I culled everything I owned, bleached the tanks and started over. If not for that, I would have played around with it longer.


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## Iggy Newcastle

That sux! Thanks for the reply.


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## ahud

If I were getting meeki, I would either get a wild type (hard to find, but well worth it) or aquarium strain from a hobby breeder. meeki are farmed pretty intensively from what I understand.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Yea ahud, I've read that about them. I'm still undecided on which species, but will get them from a reputable source.

I did receive those swordtails, though. They have quite a bit of color at such a small size. They're outgoing, and begging for food like my Africans.

I also found some Vieja/Paraneetroplus Heterospilia locally through the GCCA(Chicago Cichlid Assoc). I'm pretty pumped. I'll be getting a small group of 1 inchers this weekend at the swap. I have had a tough time finding these online. When I have, it's a minimum order of $100, and they don't have any Thorichthys. I was actually quite shocked to find them. The GCCA is a great source for fish, but 80% of the fish in the classifieds are Africans it seems.


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## CjCichlid

Good to hear the Swords arrived live and well, as good shipping weather will be coming to an end soon.

Good news regarding the heterospilia as well. Can't beat finding the fish you want locally. I actually received my group of C. sajica from a member off of the GCCA forums.


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## CjCichlid

Any updates Iggy? Did you end up getting the V. heterospilia? If so, we need some pics!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Yes I did get them. Thanks for asking. They are so tiny. Like 3/4" or so, but my estimates of fish size is usually off. I have no idea what Heterospila fry look like. Luckily I got them from a well respected breeder at the GCCA swap, so no worries.

Here's a pic of them in a PVC 90. They were 7 for $20, but there was actually an 8th in the bag. The extras will cover any possible losses and maybe allow me to have my pick of the litter. It would be so sweet to get a pair in the 125.









I have them in with my swordtails. It's just a 20 long, and not much to look at. It's just a little grow out tank though...


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## FedEXguy

Do those heterospila really only get 9"-10" inches? I thought most of the vieja/paraneetroplus got like 16"-17" inches. I admit I don't know enough about these guys, though.


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## CjCichlid

Looking good Iggy! They sure are tiny and like you said you can't really tell what they are yet. I'm sure they will grow quickly though..

FedEx, yes V. heterospilia are one of the smaller vieja/paraneetroplus species. Males usually max out at around 9in while females are even smaller.


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## FedEXguy

Awesome. They sure are beautiful. Looking forward to more pics from Iggy!


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## Iggy Newcastle

FedEXguy said:


> Awesome. They sure are beautiful. Looking forward to more pics from Iggy!


Don't expect too much from my photos 

The Heterospila were more outgoing today. Hope to see them a little more active. If not I'll have to move them into another tank to see if the swords are stressing them out at all. Lot more color on the fish today. Some pink/purple coloring to their dorsals. Tough to watch all of them at once, but they're taking flake and NLS Grow. I was advised to feed the swords smaller feedings, several times a day. So I'm sure the Heteros will be getting plenty of food.


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## CjCichlid

Give them a week to settle in am I'm sure they'll color up and become more active and outgoing. They should be just fine with the swords as well, if anything the swords should make them feel more comfortable as they'll fill the dither role.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Their doing very well. Still forming small groups and hanging out together, but exploring the tank. They're begging for food as well. So that's good. Feeding NLS Grow, crushed flake and frozen blackworms(every other day). They're fed 3-4 small feedings a day. Does this diet sound good?


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## CjCichlid

Can't go wrong with NLS. They will definitely benefit from multiple small feedings throughout the day as well verses one or two large feedings.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Cool thanks.


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## skurj

I've been keeping Maculipinnis for only around 3 months now. I was originally looking for Meeki, but this was all they had, and when I compare these to any Meeki I have seen in stores since, I know I made the right decision. I had 3 to start, 2 males 1 female, but the larger male caught a parasite and wasted away unfortunately, but this has left me with a pair that so far anyways seem content. I have them in a 46g corner tank with 2 BN's some tetras and some barbs for dithers. The male is probably closing on 4" now. I had kept Africans in this tank previously and it was actually pretty sad, almost made me get rid of the corner tank. Any time anyone came to see my fish they would all hide in the back corner. These guys are always at the glass. (excuse my poor photos)


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## Iggy Newcastle

Gorgeous fish skurj. That's why I can't make up my mind on which Thorichthys to stock...


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## CjCichlid

+1, great looking pair.

T. maculipinnis are definitely one of the best looking Thorichthys species. If I was to come across some at my LFS, I'd be tempted to pick some up.


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## CjCichlid

Why is this tank not setup yet?! :x :lol:

Updates? How have those V. heterospila settled in? opcorn:


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## Iggy Newcastle

I know man. Would you believe me if I told you I've been busy? Slammed at work, redoing the spare bedroom into an office, the new Xbox One came out, etc. etc....

The Heterospila are doing well. All 8 alive and swimming. Can't really tell if they've grown, but I'm sure they have. They have some nice deep burgundy to their dorsals. A few of them have developed some darker, broken striping from mid body towards the caudal fin. Eating like hogs. Have quite a few male swordtails developing a very attractive sword. This guy developed early. The picture blows but you get the idea. Lots more color there than you can see. The sword is outlined in a deep green blue. Never mind the bubbles and debris. Just fed some blackworms. Also, I hate HOBs...


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## CjCichlid

Hah just giving you a hard time man. I'm sure it'll only get busier with the Holidays and all as well! I do however like your last excuse.. XBox Once came out. :lol:

Glad to hear they're all doing well though. Not sure how fast of growers those V. heterospila are suppose to be but I'd guess they are similar to other Vieja species which is supposedly relatively quick. I will say however I feel like my to Vieja haven't grown all that fast and that's with steady feedings and lots of water changes? :-?


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## Iggy Newcastle

Yea I'm doing water changes every 2-3 days. Pulled everything last night and did a very thorough cleaning. Tough to gage growth when the other inhabitants are gaining size as well.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Wanted to update this thread. Is this tank ever going to happen? OF COURSE! And while I have not bought or decided on the Thorichthys yet, I have been having fun with the fish I'm growing out for the final setup. I did add a fish that has the potential to be a problem in the future. Especially with the swords. But I was having some fish delivered and threw him in the order. The $3 dollar price tag was too hard to resist. Rocio octofasciatus.

Anyways, I wanted to share some pictures....

The Paraneetroplus/Vieja Heterospila. Starting to show some nice color, even at this small size.

IMG_0773 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_0749 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_0742 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_0732 by Adam James K, on Flickr

The young JD...

IMG_0726 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_0722 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_0757 by Adam James K, on Flickr

And finally these swordtails. Awesome coloring. 

IMG_0733 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_0739 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_0761 by Adam James K, on Flickr

Even the females look real nice...

IMG_0741 by Adam James K, on Flickr

Picture overload, I know. Sorry. Let me know what you think... Thanks for looking.


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## CjCichlid

Dang Iggy, you've been holding out on us! Where did you learn to take pics like that?!

The Heterospila are looking great, already really coloring up! I hope you ordered a few extras to send my way once you thin them out... seriously. :roll: The swords are looking great as well!

Where did you order the JD from? Some of those F1's and "cenote escondido" varieties are real lookers..

Keep the updates coming! :thumb:


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## FedEXguy

Somehow JDs sneak in to my tanks, too  Pictures and fish are looking great!


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## Iggy Newcastle

Thanks for the compliments guys.

FedEx- ya know I researched the JD and really liked them, but quickly dismissed the idea. Up until recently...

Chris- I got an actual camera! I currently have 8 of the little buggers. Won't have room for em all. You'll be the first to know :wink: Unfortunately, I do not have a collection point/region for the JD.


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## FedEXguy

Always been a favorite fish of mine, pretty much solely because it was the first "big" fish I saw in person as a child. I dunno, it's like the fish I immediately picture when I think of cichlids.


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## CjCichlid

They are for sure one of the iconic new world cichlids. I picked up a young male when I first setup my 135gal. He would literally pace the front of the tank ALL DAY begging for food!


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## Iggy Newcastle

So now that the holidays are basically over, I'm moving on setting up this tank finally. I've decided to skip a 3D background. The tank only has an 18" depth, and even a slimmer style will take up too much room IMO. Stocking a fish that has the potential of reaching 10" needs room. So I'll be starting the paint job tomorrow. Money saved on the BG goes straight to an additional canister filter, and other stuff...

My question regards flow, and how it will affect my swordtails. I like spray bars. They provide incredible surface agitation and keep the tank floor nice and clean. But I don't want the swords to be getting blasted all over the tank. And if I add any leaves I don't want to see them all piled in a corner. I know I can play around with length and diameter of discharge holes, as I'll be building my own spray bars if I go this route. So if anyone has advice about flow, filter discharge, spray bars and such with dither fish please chime in.

Thanks...


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## ahud

I would not worry about blasting the swordtails around at all.


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## CjCichlid

Iggy, I got to say.. the more I see tanks with 3D backgrounds, the more I dislike them. This notion just recently came to me as I use to LOVE them.. but now, not so much. I think a lot of times they detract from the actual aquascape, as well as the fish. There is definitely a particular way to scape when incorporating a 3D background and you have to know how to go about it. All to often do I see people just throw in a 3D background and BAM they think they have an awesomely scaped tank and everyone praises them.. Meh.. not in my eyes. In a well, properly scaped tank they can look great (think Lee Nutall's displays), however I still think you really can't go wrong with a solid color such as black or blue.

In regards to flow..
As ahud said, the swords will not be bothered by a high flow rate. My mollies will literally sit in front of the output of my filters, as well as when I'm filling the tank during a water change. Leaves will end up in piles regardless of whether you have a spray bar or not. Mine seem to collect in two or three places. Not a big deal, as the fish are constantly moving them around anyway. With that said, with adequate turnover rate, I've never found spray bars necessary. I have the output of my canister on the far left, my AC110 in the middle, and a powerhead on the far right. Idk.. maybe I missing out?


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## ahud

I don't get too caught up in flow. I want to make sure fecal matter gets blown along in two or three spots so siphoning the bottom is easy, and I want something to agitate the surface to break up the oily film and create gas exchange. I have my fx5 output pointed at the glass, it bounces off and sends the rest of the current along the bottom towards the opposite side of the tank where the input is. The flow is so gentle it does not move the leaves around.

After using sponge filters, I don't think flow is nearly as important as filter manufacturers would have us believe! Flow is great for making maintenance easier and creating surface agitation, but that's about it IME. Unless you were keeping fish that required it, but I am skeptical of that as well!


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## Iggy Newcastle

My concern was that they're not the robust cichlids I'm used to, and spend a lot of time high in the water column. I've never kept any tropical fish before, so wasn't sure. Thanks for the info.

I only have one canister for this tank so far, and will be ordering a second tonight or tomorrow, along with some other stuff. So I'll be playing around with the plumbing. Hoping to have this thing filled and a cycle going in a week.

As far as the 3D background goes Chris, I think that they can be incredible. One thing that Lee's tanks have going for him is that they're like 3' deep. Must be nice :wink:. When I set mine up in my 180, I felt I had enough room to get a good scape. On the 125 with an 18" depth, I don't think it would give me a workable area. I like big rocks, and am pumped to get some driftwood going. I have seen plenty of tanks that do have a nice 3D BG, but like you said, don't offer much in the way of a nice aquascape. Or at least one that didn't take more than 10 minutes to setup.

This is how my 180 with the BG is looking nowadays. There's still a few things I need to do like adding a rock or two, and upgrading the lighting. Let me know what you think...


IMG_0844 by Adam James K, on Flickr


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## CjCichlid

Adam, I think your 180 looks great. Many times the deal breaker for me is when the background looks out of place with the rest of the scape.. for example if someone has a gray rocky BG and uses white rocks to scape the tank? The fact that your BG and rock work blend together makes everything look like it belongs, which is huge when trying to create a convincing scape. The algae and diatom growth really helps as well, so don't go and throw in a BN pleco!! :wink:


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## Iggy Newcastle

Thanks for the compliment Chris. No algae eaters in this tank. I used to scrub rocks with a stiff brush and sponge in the past. For this tank I just said 'the he*l with it' and let it do whatever. Only the clean the glass and move the sand around. I'm happy with the tank, but never satisfied, ya know?

Found some T. Maculipinnis last night. Waiting to hear back from the vendor...


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## CjCichlid

Iggy Newcastle said:


> I'm happy with the tank, but never satisfied, ya know?
> 
> Found some T. Maculipinnis last night. Waiting to hear back from the vendor...


Unfortunately yes I do know.. I am rarely satisfied with any I do be it fish related or..? I've already been reworking my tanks scape out in my head.. :roll:

Good luck with the T. macs, they're great looking fish.


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## skurj

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Found some T. Maculipinnis last night. Waiting to hear back from the vendor...


Nice! I wish I could find more, paranoid I will lose one of my pair, and so far they haven't come through and spawned :?


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## Iggy Newcastle

skurj said:


> Iggy Newcastle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Found some T. Maculipinnis last night. Waiting to hear back from the vendor...
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! I wish I could find more, paranoid I will lose one of my pair, and so far they haven't come through and spawned :?
Click to expand...

Well as soon as I secure my fish, I'll let you know where to find them . Actually 2 places offering them all of a sudden. I've noticed this on occasion. Guessing these vendors may receive some of their fish from the same supplier...


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## ahud

A ton of Thorichthys come from Rusty. So you will see that.


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## spotmonster

Nice 180 Adam! Very nice!


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## Iggy Newcastle

ahud said:


> A ton of Thorichthys come from Rusty. So you will see that.


I was only stating that when you see a single species or a wild caught species pop up on a vendor's list, it's most likely from the same source. Regardless if it's an African or a new world species.


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## Iggy Newcastle

spotmonster said:


> Nice 180 Adam! Very nice!


Thanks man! Glad you like it.


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## skurj

Iggy Newcastle said:


> skurj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iggy Newcastle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Found some T. Maculipinnis last night. Waiting to hear back from the vendor...
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! I wish I could find more, paranoid I will lose one of my pair, and so far they haven't come through and spawned :?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well as soon as I secure my fish, I'll let you know where to find them . Actually 2 places offering them all of a sudden. I've noticed this on occasion. Guessing these vendors may receive some of their fish from the same supplier...
Click to expand...

Hopefully your supplier is close to the border..


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## Iggy Newcastle

So I received the final piece of the puzzle for the longest tank setup in history- a dozen T. Maculipinnis. Around 2-2.5" and showing some decent color. Have them in a 40 breeder with the swordtails. Already posturing to one another. Very happy with them.

With that being said, I will no longer be asking questions or continuing this thread. Thanks to all who contributed and helped me along the way. Much appreciated!


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## CjCichlid

Nice, and at 2-2.5" they already have some size on them too! Looking forward to seeing some pics of them.. as well as this supposed 125gal your setting up! :wink:


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## skurj

yup I want to see photos of this possible tank with the maculipinnis..


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## Iggy Newcastle

Supposed/possible? C'mon guys.... Would I lie to you?

I'll try for some pictures of the new fish tonight or tomorrow.


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## CjCichlid

opcorn: :fish: opcorn: :fish:


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## CjCichlid

Alright, it's been almost a month and still no picture proof of these T. macs you supposedly have! I know you've been busy being a moderator and all ( :roll: ) but come on!


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## Iggy Newcastle

My bad...

Their tank is near a TV. I fell asleep watching a Steven Seagal marathon and they all jumped out of the tank to put themselves out of their misery.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Okay so I lied about the Seagal movies...

Snapped a few photos. Tough to get closeup photos of these guys. Afterwards, noticed all the water spots that the camera picked up that I couldn't see with the naked eye. Embarrassing  I also threw a ML Double Bright(currently not being used) on the tank for the photo shoot. Actually brought out more color on the fish than I thought they had.


IMG_1187 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_1150 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_1172 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_1176 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_1130 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_1198 by Adam James K, on Flickr

The Heterospila

IMG_1209 by Adam James K, on Flickr


IMG_1148 by Adam James K, on Flickr

A blurry photo of my lone JD

IMG_1211 by Adam James K, on Flickr

And a blurry pic of one of the male swords

IMG_1214 by Adam James K, on Flickr

All are doing well. Enjoying the group and looking forward to getting their final home setup.


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## CjCichlid

Ahhh so they do exist! :wink:

They all are looking good Iggy. Have you made any new progress on the 125?


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## Iggy Newcastle

Progress? The back of the tank is painted. Cycling a canister for it on my 180. Soaking wood in a plastic barrel. I have sand. Thought about cleaning it in the tub, but not sure how that's gonna go over. My landscape place is open M-F til 3. I work during the week so I haven't been able to pick out some rock. I have rocks, but I'm picky. I'm a union pipefitter but my work revolves around service and controls. So basically heating and cooling. This winter is brutal. Working this Sunday too.

So by the end of 2014 I should have this tank up and running :?


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