# Better option: 3 2217s or 2 FX5s



## Kevin007 (Jul 20, 2008)

I already have a 2217 that i plan on using on my new 180G. The Fluval FX5 was my 1st choice because of the superior water flow + price.

I wanted to by the same bio media that came with my 2217, substratpro. That stuff is $100 for 5L, the 2217 which comes with that is only $180.

2 FX5s + Media = $600
3 2217 = $600

if i choose option B, I'll be running 4 2217s on a 180G mbuna tank.

What do you think?


----------



## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

I would suggest only one additional canister - either the FX5 or the 2217. Between those two I would pick the FX5 based on value (not just cost). I think that one FX5 and one 2217 are more than suitable for a 180. On the other hand while I wouldn't say 4 2217's is overkill for a 180, but I would question what benefit you would get from adding that much filtration.

I would also use a cheaper media. That would greatly change the comparison. I am also wondering what benefit you think you are getting by using the substratpro compared to other cheaper media options out there.

I think a lot of times we get sucked in by marketing schemes to make us think that performance is directly related to price. In my opinion that's a myth.

Unless, of course, you don't care about cost - then none of what I said applies.


----------



## Vincent (May 7, 2004)

I don't like the FX5 very much because it has a very small media capacity. People get excited about the high flow rate, but that's a red herring.

Both the FX5 and the 2217 have 6L of media capacity. I would go with 3 2217s instead of 2 FX5s.


----------



## Kevin007 (Jul 20, 2008)

Hi there, I don't think a 2217 and a FX5 alone would be able to keep a tightly stocked 180G, I don't know how strong a FX5 is though. The only reason I'm considering substratepro is because, quite simply, it works. I'm loving it on my 2217 that's running on the 55G currently, I'm looking for the same success.

Vincent- I have read that water circulation is often a problem in large tanks, and the FX5 is superior in flow rate in comparison to the others according to reviews.

One problem of running 4 2217s is that it will look quite messy in the tank with all the intakes.

Perhaps I should look into powerheads? Koralia?


----------



## Solchitlins (Jul 23, 2003)

Look at the eheim 2260, they can be found online for $250. But you need to buy quick disconnects and media of choice.


----------



## sneakypete (Mar 7, 2008)

If you are looking for eheims, check out the Ken's Fish link. His prices on Eheims can't be beat. I think he's got 2217s for $130. His 2260 is $289.00, but you have to buy the media on top. You can order Seachem Matrix from him as a substitute for the substrate pro and it will cost you less than half and its a better medium to boot. That would be a custom order though and you'll have to tak to him about it first.

He's not the easiest guy to get on the phone but he is a great guy. Try calling him in the mid afternoon. He always seems to be around at that time unless he's on the road.

OOOps...

Kevin I just noticed you live in Toronto so importing from the states will cost you an arm and a leg unless you can figure out how to ship it to a U.S. address and then go pick it up. The $180 for the 2217s is probably the best deal you can get around here. It might be better to go eheim as they will last forever.

Another option is to buy another 2217 and buy 2 Hagan 110s (if they fit). It will provide you with good flow and a lot of flexibility. You'll also save a little cash. Two 2217s should be enough to cover the bio part. Adding 2 110s will give you lots of circulation and a good way to polish the water if you want to use chemical additives like carbon or purigen.

pete


----------



## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

I am running the Eheim 2217s and an Eheim 2213 (happened to have it from another tank) on a 180 gallon with a Koralia powerhead and that set up works for me. I have never used the other brand so cannot compare.


----------



## frozennorth (Dec 16, 2008)

You can get eheim 2217 for $179.99 online. And they are located in Ontario.


----------



## Fishbulb2 (Sep 23, 2008)

I would go with seachem matrix media as well. Very similar to the eheim but much cheaper. Also, check out tunze nanostreams if you want to add a lot of flow in a small package. If your tank has a black background, you won't even see them.


----------



## Kevin007 (Jul 20, 2008)

Hi there, I found some places to get the 2217 for $180, you are right, $20 cheaper then when I brought mine a year ago.

I've posted this same question on another board and a popular choice is to buy one 2262 instead. I have my doubts though. If i decide to get that, I'll be running a 2217 and a 2262.

(researching on matrix currently)

I'm not a fan of HOBs, I have 3, 2 runs on a 20G and one is a secondary filter to my 2217 on the 55G.

Sneakypete- Have you seen the 2262 around Toronto? If so, what price do they go at?

Thanks guys


----------



## Solchitlins (Jul 23, 2003)

seachem POND matrix media is even cheaper than regular seachem matrix media.
Same stuff just a little bit bigger.


----------



## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

i have 2 2217 filters on my 150g....but i came to the conclusion that although they were fine for the ammount of water they couldnt supply a flow rate throughout the tank to keep the poop moving and supply surface agitation at the same time.

i ended up having 3 rio powerheads placed at specific points ..two to promote a gentle clockise horizontal flow plus filtration ..the thrid is doing surface agitation and oxygen via an oxygen pipe to the surface.

also the spray bars i was using on the 2217 cut down the flow rate too much.

now its all coming together ...just two canisters on a tank this size isnt enough without help.


----------



## jzyjack (Dec 31, 2008)

On Ebay:

Eheim 2217 119.95 + 16.95 s/h

seller: exotic-fish

best price i've seen. 4 or 5 left

:thumb:


----------



## sneakypete (Mar 7, 2008)

Hey Kevin:

The big Eheims are hard to find in Ontario for a good price. Big As wanted $500 for a 2260 which is almost double what you pay online in the states. And then you have to buy the media which adds another $150 - at least. The problem with shipping in from the states is the high price U.S. shipping companies charge for duty, customs etc. Its just not worth it.

I know HOBs arnt perfect but it does help mix things up a bit so you get the best from each type of filter. Besides my fish love the current they produce. Why not consider the following: buy the 2217 for $180, consider a hagan 110 for another $80 and add a couple of marineland power heads to keep the water moving for $30 each. 2*2217 should provide enough bio for a 300 gallon so you got lots of head room there. Adding more than 2 2217 will also be awkward to plumb neatly on your tank and it will be hard to hide four intakes. Eheims are great filters but they are the ugliest on the market in terms of colour.

The other option is to order the 2260 or 2262 online in the states and have it shipped to a friend or somone you know and pick it up sometime. I've heard you can rent a mail drop box in Buffalo to have it shipped to and drive down and pick it up although I've never looked into it. Its a *************** but apparently it can be done. The other option is Craiglist.

Good luck.


----------



## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

I am always somewhat mystified as to where people establish their filtration requirements. So if you allow me to indulge myself I would like to make a few points.

There are two parts to a filter, flow rate and media volume. In addition to that there are two functions of a filter - bio and mechanical. For bio filtration the flow rate is of medium importance and the media used is of low to medium importance. For mechanical filtration the flow rate is of low importance and the media used is of high importance.

Bio:
Any media you use will perform bio filtration. Specific "bio media" is no different than any other media type. Theoretically it offers more surface area for bacteria prorogation, but I am guessing that 80% of that theory is created by the marketing division of the media manufacturer. There are many non bio specific media that will work just as good as "bio media". As long as the media has a surface area it will perform bio filtration. When it comes to the performance of a filters bio filtration the only thing you care about is having 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite levels. Flow rate and media type can influence this, but by themselves are close to meaningless in determining filtration requirements. Plus, there is no way to use that information to know if a filter is enough - especially since it is tied directly to the bio load of a tank, which as far as I know is not an actual measurable thing. In other words the important part of a filter is whether or not it keeps ammonia and nitrite at 0ppm - not how much GPH, or turnover margin you get.

Mechanical:
This is simply a function of the media used. If you need cleaner water, get a finer filtration media. Flow rate is somewhat irrelevant since once waste is caught in the media the job of the filter is done. You don't need high turnover to filter waste. The volume of media can affect mechanical filtration in the sense of how often the filter needs to be cleaned. But the other side of that coin is that the more waste you can hold in the filter, the more waste will be present in the water system. It is usually not a good thing to have a large amount of toxic waste sitting in the water system for a long period of time.

Flow:
The only other thing a filter provides in a tank is water flow. In general this is not a necessary thing, but can be preferred - especially to prevent dead zones or to provide surface agitation. Flow is quite unrelated to the bio or mechanical filtration but important nonetheless.

It seems the OP already has a good plan of attack for his tank so I am not really addressing that, but I wanted to add some perspective on the situation for anyone who might come across this thread later on, especially inexperienced hobbyists. Especially since I have been in the situation where I have come across threads that have encouraged me to spend a lot of money only to find out later on that there were cheaper options that work just as well.

With that said, here is my recap:

Added filtration does not always increase filtration ability. For example, if one filter is enough to keep ammonia and nitite to zero then when you add another filter what extra benefit is gained? None, as far as bio filtration is concerned. You still have a filtration system that keeps ammonia and nitrite at zero - same performance as before.

Regarding filter media - If you are having problems with dirty or cloudy water, get better filter media for the problem, don't just add another filter. An added filter does not inherently fix the problem (unless you also put a more appropriate media in the new filter - in which case it is the new media not the added filter that is going to fix the problem).

While everyone has their own preferences, what is the benefit of expensive media? If the criteria is to use media that works, there are many cheap options that work just as well as the expensive ones for fractions of the cost. And again, when I say work just as well I mean keeping ammonia and nitrite at 0ppm and keeping the water clear of waste.


----------



## hdmyg228 (Jan 13, 2009)

I am thinking about buying some wholesale water pipes from this company in China http://www.liangdianup.com/tobacciana_z.htm 
but I am not sure if they are legal to bring in to the states? What are the laws on water pipes, bongs, and pipes?


----------



## Solchitlins (Jul 23, 2003)

stop spaming this web site looser.
Nobody want any of your crappy pipes here.
This forum is about fish keeping.


----------



## sneakypete (Mar 7, 2008)

Kevin:

I was just online at Big As and they have dropped the price on the 2217 to $150. That's the best deal on Eheims going right now in the GTA that I'm aware of.

pete


----------



## frozennorth (Dec 16, 2008)

sneakypete said:


> Kevin:
> 
> I was just online at Big As and they have dropped the price on the 2217 to $150. That's the best deal on Eheims going right now in the GTA that I'm aware of.
> 
> pete


I think you got on the U.S. site by mistake. It's still 199.99 on bigalsonline.ca. It happened to me once too. I thought wow I better order this stuff before it gets expensive again. Then I noticed the american flag at the top.

The cheapest I found them online in Canada so far is 179.99. It does include the media.


----------



## Cich of it all (Mar 29, 2007)

180 gallon tank? Is it drilled?
If it is, I'd go with option C. IMO, anything over 100 gallons deserves a wet/dry and a sump. 
For around $350 you could have a bad-a$$ sump that would: 

a) be more efficient to power, 
b) add to your stocking capacity by increasing your water volume, 
c) make water changes easier, 
d) make filter cleaning easier, 
e) allow you to move all heaters out of the tank, 
f) provide aeration without having to ripple the tank surface, 
g) have one pump to worry about rather than 2 or 3,
Brand new 55 gallon tank - $100
Mag-Drive 1200 gph pump - $100
10 gallons of bio-balls off of Ebay - $55 -------> example 
Sterilite storage drawers - $25
Eggcrate - $10
Coarse filter pad - $20
Blue bonded pad - $10
PVC and fittings $30

And if your tank is not drilled, well then you'd have to add about $200 for a pair of overflows, but you'd still be spending less than two FX5's and you would have all the benefits of a sump. Just a suggestion; that's the end of my sales pitch.


----------



## xoxemoneyxox (Oct 28, 2008)

Just put your 55 under and make one big sump!


----------



## kodyboy (Dec 9, 2007)

I would go with 2 fluval FX5s over the 3 2217s. Media capacity is the same, but the fluvals are in baskets and the flow rate through the media is FAR more than through the eheims. If you stack the media in the fluval like the eheims than each fluval holds far more media than the ehiem 2217 does, although the flow rate and ease of maintenance will suffer greatly. 
The 2260 is nice, but it too does not have baskets for maintenance and is very expensive. 
With good media (which is really what matters) and the flow rates I think the Fluvals are a better bet.


----------



## kodyboy (Dec 9, 2007)

I would have to agree on the sump option, it is better than any other.


----------

