# Mbuna or Peacocks



## Cajen

:fish: OK, so I am about to set up my 55g tank after a 7 year hiatus. I finally moved to a house with enough room to get my aquarium going again. So, never mind that I was transferred from "paradise" to the desert (West Palm Beach, FL to Phoenix, AZ).

Anyway, my last setup was somewhat basic with HOB filtration & under gravel filter. I had mbuna before and absolutely LOVE the fact that they actually have distinct personalities and actually pay attention to the world outside of their tank. I will never have any other type of fish than cichlids.

I have a myriad of questions, but really only one set that belongs in this section (the other questions surround tank setup so I will also post there).

A. Are all cichlid variations as aware of their surroundings and have the personality to which I referred earlier?

B. Since mbuna are more aggressive than peacocks I know that I shouldn't mix them in the same tank. Mbuna has some really kool species that have great coloring, markings etc.. But so do peacocks... Is there a big cost difference in one over the other?

C. Am I correct in that the water, filtration, ph etc is basically, if not totally, the same for both?

D. I know this is not really a fair question here, but which do YOU prefer and why? Not that I am a trend follower :wink: But I am rather looking for impassioned responses for each so that I can 
make an informed decision. The canned answer, "it is a matter of personal preference" does not help me since I have not raised peacocks before.

E. Is there anything that I "should ask" but do not know enough to do so?

thanks in advance for any input you are willing to share. This is absolutely a great site for cichlid lovers... I have spent hours browsing the forum and have only beguan to scratch the surface of the wealth of knowledge you folks share daily... GREAT find for me... Woo hoo

:fish:


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## vann59

All lake Malawi fish live in the same lake in the wild, so the water conditions are the same. Some aquarists don't mix fish from different lakes, but more do than don't. Check the water parameters. Hard water fish, like Malawi should be kept with other hard water fish, not soft like CA, or SA.

Not all Mbunas are as aggressive as the notorious ones. I really like peacocks and haps, the iridescent color of mature males is unmatched by Mbunas. I have some together and they do fine, but the really aggressive ones should not be mixed. All the Africans seem to have a lot of neat personality and awareness of the outer world. You know what they say... "Once you've had Africans, you never go back to other fish".

If you're hand picking fish, look not only for good color, but fish that have a healthy appetite. It's very telling.


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## Mbunagasm

I feel like mbuna are more comfortable and act more naturally in captivity, Peacocks are open water fish (right?) that swim a decent distance in a average day. Mbuna are smaller and occur in dense populations in the wild so you can have alot of fish each with their own distinct territory. So you can throw in alot of artistic flare in providing hiding spots and at the same time decorations. I personally feel like my fish are only 35-50% of the appeal of my rocky planted tank. Peacocks are stunning fish, top 3 most beautiful cichild in my opinion but they like open water and I honestly wouldent have a fishtank if it wasnt crammed with rock and plants.


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## brinkles

A. All the cichlid's I've ever kept were very aware of someone coming to feed them, at least! Mbuna are more active than haps, so go with them if you want more action in the tank.

B. I have limited experience with haps, and none with Peacocks, but I believe they both grow a little slower. Juveniles tend to be a little more expensive. Colored up male haps and Peacocks are very expensive.

C. The water is all the same.

D. female haps and peacocks are dull looking, but so are many mbuna. There are, however, some female mbuna that do look good. I'm trying to keep groups of the more mild mbuna with some more aggressive haps, and a victorian, but I haven't had them together long enough to know how it will work out.

E. Many people either keep 3 species groups of mbuna, or an assortment of male haps and peacocks. Maybe decide on a "must have" fish, and work from there!


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## Cajen

vann59... am I understanding you correctly that some Lk Malawi Mbuna can be mixed with Peacocks? I am only interested in the Lake Malawi Cichlid at this time so CA or SA would not be. A concern

Mbunagasm... Your handle tells me which side your answer would lie 8) my prior tank was almost all rock minimal plants, lots a caves I agree that the Mbuna appeared very at home and comfortable... When they were not sparring with one another HAHAHA... I read that peacocks are accustomed to swimming distances and was a little worried about only a 55g tank for them.

Thanks guys for the insight... I will get my tank going soon'ish but want to do it right, so will not rush. I really appreciate the help.


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## Cajen

Brinkles... Good thought on find a must have and go from there - I would never have thought of that approach... It will take a while but I will do an update once decision reached and tank set up


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## 13razorbackfan

Cajen said:


> vann59... am I understanding you correctly that some Lk Malawi Mbuna can be mixed with Peacocks? I am only interested in the Lake Malawi Cichlid at this time so CA or SA would not be. A concern
> 
> Mbunagasm... Your handle tells me which side your answer would lie 8) my prior tank was almost all rock minimal plants, lots a caves I agree that the Mbuna appeared very at home and comfortable... When they were not sparring with one another HAHAHA... I read that peacocks are accustomed to swimming distances and was a little worried about only a 55g tank for them.
> 
> Thanks guys for the insight... I will get my tank going soon'ish but want to do it right, so will not rush. I really appreciate the help.


Yes...some mbuna can but you certainly don't want to mix aggressive mbuna in with peacocks as they are slower and have nice long fins to get shredded. They are also stressed out a bit at times by many mbuna.

You can get away with a few different species of peacocks in a 55g but if you go male you will want to stay away from most of the hybrids.


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## vann59

Cajen said:


> vann59... am I understanding you correctly that some Lk Malawi Mbuna can be mixed with Peacocks? I am only interested in the Lake Malawi Cichlid at this time so CA or SA would not be. A concern
> 
> Mbunagasm... Your handle tells me which side your answer would lie 8) my prior tank was almost all rock minimal plants, lots a caves I agree that the Mbuna appeared very at home and comfortable... When they were not sparring with one another HAHAHA... I read that peacocks are accustomed to swimming distances and was a little worried about only a 55g tank for them.
> 
> Thanks guys for the insight... I will get my tank going soon'ish but want to do it right, so will not rush. I really appreciate the help.


Yes, for instance Yellow labs, P. socolofi, and Yellow tail Acei work fine with peacocks. As long as they are not too aggressive they're ok. Most peacocks are fine with a 4 ft or longer tank, so 55 G works.


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## DJRansome

vann59 said:


> P. socolofi


With peacocks? My socolofi were aggressive even with my demasoni. :lol:

Yellow labs with peacocks is pretty safe. Acei with peacocks, maybe safe. Anything else is hit or miss. I had a Cynotilapia sp. hara (not overly aggressive) kill a peacock so I don't mix them.

Personality, I'd say equal across the fish. Favorites? Mbuna first because all fish are colorful. Haps next...I like their colors better than peacock colors. But one colored fish and the rest silver. Peacocks come last for me among Malawi.


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## vann59

Of course, it's all relative too, since the fish that are there first have the 'home team advantage'. And the size of each is a big factor. I don't think that indiscriminate mixing of mbuna with peacocks and haps is a good idea at all. Just use caution and scale everything with aggression in mind. Level the playing field by planning the stocking order and timing. And in any case, you can't always predict harmony with any mixed group.

I have a friend who buys fish like penny candy according to whatever looks good to him, mixing aggressive mbuna, brichardi, etc, even though I have told him he was building a 'mafia tank'. He has even kept salt water fish for years, but he still does this.

The great thing about this forum is that you can benefit from the many years of experience of so many aquarists. I have been able to avoid many mistakes because of this, but some things you will still mess up.


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## lilcountrygal

I prefer mbuna over Peacocks. I love the colors on the peacocks, but since males are usually the only colorful ones and you stock M/F ratios with more females, I didnt want that many drab looking females in my tank, and an all male tank is not something I want to attempt. My stock list is all monomorphic, so all fish are colorful. In my tank, I have Zebras, Labs and Rustys. Zebras being the most aggressive. I also have two OB blueberry Peacocks. None of my fish mess with the Peacocks beyond the occasional "get out of my way" chase. If you do mix Peacocks with mbuna, its been recommended to not have the more aggressive mbuna (Auratus, Johanni, etc.)... go with less aggressive mbuna and choose Peacocks in the higher end of aggression for Peacocks.


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## Cajen

Lilcountrygal

I will do some research and hope that when I am ready to stock my tank I will have enuff base knowledge to implement your idea... Less aggressive Mbuna and higher end aggressive Peacocks. although, that said, I know that each fish will have it's own temperament.... Which is why Cichlids are so kool.

Thanks
:fish:


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## lilcountrygal

Once you narrow down the fish that you really really want, build a stock list around that. See whats available in your area, or what website you're willing to pay the shipping on. Post a thread. The members here are the most helpful of any forum I've visited. Ask for a list of more aggressive peacocks, and they'll give it to you.

I recently posted a thread about mbuna mixing with peacocks and got a very detailed response (I'll dig up the thread for you). You can google pictures of the suggestions or check out the profiles section. I would take a guess and say that very few peacocks will color quite fully with mbuna in the tank, When you purchase the peacocks, try to get the males. And, if possible, stock the peacocks either first or at the same time as mbuna.

ETA: there's a couple suggestions in this thread. If you dont like any and are looking for a certain color, post and someone will steer you in the right direction.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... t=#1712841


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## Cajen

Lilgal,

May I inquire why your phraseology was "an all male tank is not something I want to attempt?"

Other than no breeding and possibly more aggression, what is the drawback to an all male tank?


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## 13razorbackfan

Cajen said:


> Lilgal,
> 
> May I inquire why your phraseology was "an all male tank is not something I want to attempt?"
> 
> Other than no breeding and possibly more aggression, what is the drawback to an all male tank?


Once you get your all males to coexist...you are fine. The problem is getting there. It takes time. Even if you order colored males all at the same time of roughly the same size you may still have issues with a couple fish not getting along. It took me months, many many months to get it right.


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## DJRansome

Read the all-male tank article in the Library for the pitfalls. Stocking is hit or miss so you are likely to need to remove your favorite fish or two. You need a spare tank to house the fish and a place that will take rejects, like the LFS or your fish club auctions. Expensive because you buy fish for $30 to $50 each as sexable adult males.

Not a carefree endeavor. :thumb:


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## Cajen

The benefit I suppose is that you have a LOT of color an do not have to frequently give away the fry of one of your fav fish. The downside I suppose is that you do not get to watch the breeding process... I remember how totally kool it was when my first Cichlid (she was pale blue not sure what type) had her fry....

I can't wait... But will, to get my tank going again.

Thx


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## Cajen

DJRansome,

Great article. Thanks for pointing me to it. However, i am just as uncertain, maybe more so than before :-?

I'll figure it out eventually... I gotta say tho that this site is a veritable treasure trove of knowledge and SO MANY people so willing to share their experience.

I know this is a total beginner question, but is a Hap a variety of Mbuna or is it just that they are from Lake Malawi?


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## brinkles

Haps are non-mbuna. The aggression scale for haps ends where the mbuna scale starts.


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## brinkles

Why don't you describe what color/patterns the ideal fish would have, and we'll try to find some close ones?


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## johnchor

i think electric blue hap is easier to mix with mbuna than peacocks.

electric blue hap is tougher and will take care of itself.



brinkles said:


> Haps are non-mbuna. The aggression scale for haps ends where the mbuna scale starts.


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## Cajen

Hmmm... ideal color and markings?the beauty of the Cichlid family is that there are SO many varieties to pick from. I suppose that a vibrant red with either black stripes or back dorsal fin. Or even the inverse of that. I also like the look of a black fish... not dark grey but decidedly black. 5 - 6" as fully matured fish. I would also begoodwith him being the Alpha of the tank.


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## Cajen

Sorry for the typos - response is from Droid so no spell check.


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## brinkles

H. latifasciata only has a little red, but should do well with the more feisty haps or mellow mbuna. They're probably the most common Victorian, and females are a pleasant gold, with the same black stripes. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1556

P. "acei" (ngara) is a mellow mbuna, but isn't quite ink black, especially youngsters. Dominant males can look pretty spectacular, though! The Itungi variant is black as well, with a yellow tail. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=835

I'm sure there are some that are closer to what you want, but I keep both of these, so I'm familiar with them.


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## Cajen

Brinkles, I tried to search (this site) for a pic of the H. latifasciata but It did not recognize the genus. I suppose the "H." must be important? Do you have any pics of this fish?


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## Cajen

Duh, you provided a link :thumb:


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## brinkles

From what I understand, the correct name of this fish is under debate. Either "Astatotilapia" or "Haplochromis" latifasciata is the name of this fish. The "acei" may also be Pseudotropheus elegans. The taxonomy is confusing!

Here's the latifasciata's all black/red cousin, I've never kept them but the profile says they're small but mean! 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1557


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## Daddyflash

Cajen said:


> 🐟 OK, so I am about to set up my 55g tank after a 7 year hiatus. I finally moved to a house with enough room to get my aquarium going again. So, never mind that I was transferred from "paradise" to the desert (West Palm Beach, FL to Phoenix, AZ).
> 
> Anyway, my last setup was somewhat basic with HOB filtration & under gravel filter. I had mbuna before and absolutely LOVE the fact that they actually have distinct personalities and actually pay attention to the world outside of their tank. I will never have any other type of fish than cichlids.
> 
> I have a myriad of questions, but really only one set that belongs in this section (the other questions surround tank setup so I will also post there).
> 
> A. Are all cichlid variations as aware of their surroundings and have the personality to which I referred earlier?
> 
> B. Since mbuna are more aggressive than peacocks I know that I shouldn't mix them in the same tank. Mbuna has some really kool species that have great coloring, markings etc.. But so do peacocks... Is there a big cost difference in one over the other?
> 
> C. Am I correct in that the water, filtration, ph etc is basically, if not totally, the same for both?
> 
> D. I know this is not really a fair question here, but which do YOU prefer and why? Not that I am a trend follower 😉 But I am rather looking for impassioned responses for each so that I can
> make an informed decision. The canned answer, "it is a matter of personal preference" does not help me since I have not raised peacocks before.
> 
> E. Is there anything that I "should ask" but do not know enough to do so?
> 
> thanks in advance for any input you are willing to share. This is absolutely a great site for cichlid lovers... I have spent hours browsing the forum and have only beguan to scratch the surface of the wealth of knowledge you folks share daily... GREAT find for me... Woo hoo
> 
> 🐟


Thanks for your information


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## Daddyflash

Cajen said:


> Duh, you provided a link :thumb:


Woohoo im Kenny, I have been raising mbunas african cichlids for close to three years. The most of them are aggressive & very active, colorful & interesting to watch. They R aware of their care takers & know wen they enter the room. I’ve raised 1 peacock in the same tank with the same high ph 8-8.4 with water temp. 78-82 tops. The peacocks R more laid bsck, not as aggressive, but can hold their own. I am going to seperate them though to avoid the pescock from stress that the mbunas cause. I do love the colors of the peacocks. I ussualy keep 3- 4 line pictis cats & 2 pacostomus alegy eaters, & 2-50 gal filters for my 55 gal tank & dont ussualy have to do a water change no more than once a mo.
The mbunas are very teratorial, once they get settled.I also have bola sharks in my 55gal. Becaus they grow fast & big like the alegy eaters.

I also have a 20gal. Of inexpensive , very laid back assorted tetras with low & water temp about 78 deg. With assorted sharks that dont grow to big like red tails, clown loache bottom feeders, & bristle nose alegy eaters. Its important to keep ph near 7-7.2
Soo that being said, there will be three seperate tanks to avoid the mbuna stress. Nice chatting!


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