# Blood Worms



## cindylou (Oct 22, 2008)

Does anyone feed blood worms to there mbuna? And what is a good way to feed these since 1 fish could get it all the way they attack food..


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## under_control (Jan 9, 2008)

Stay away from bloodworms for mbuna. Far too much protein.


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## BIG BWALZ (Feb 28, 2008)

I second that with emphasis!!


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## xalow (May 10, 2007)

Most mbuna are herbivores and cannot digest animal proteins very well, and feeding them such foods is liable as a factor in causing the condition known as Malawi Bloat more info on bloat here -http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/malawi_bloat.php

Even with a species like yellow labs that also eat some invertebrates and are more omnivorous I would worry about feeding bloodworms so as a rule I don't feed any to my mbuna.


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

instead of blood worms try some brine shrimp once a week they like it .....as stated before you juss have to be careful as to not cause bloat in any of ure fish....but i nice protein treat every week should be fine.....i do this with my mbuna and they love the stuff


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## under_control (Jan 9, 2008)

BRANT13 said:


> instead of blood worms try some brine shrimp once a week they like it .....as stated before you juss have to be careful as to not cause bloat in any of ure fish....but i nice protein treat every week should be fine.....i do this with my mbuna and they love the stuff


I wouldn't even promote a high protein treat like Brine Shrimp every week. Why risk it?


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

Is protein in fact the problem? Bloodworms are around 4.5% protein, being in excess of 90% water (as are most natural/live foods). Spirulina, by contrast is 60% protein, and is considered ideal. The only mbuna I have kept recently were P. flavus, and I fed them massive quantities of live daphnia (in front of them 24/7 for several weeks) and any live bloodworms or other live aquatic larvae that found there way into the mix, without any difficulties.
I'm sure you will find that most quality veggie/algae flake are quite high in protein.


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## under_control (Jan 9, 2008)

Animal based protein is a problem. Not all proteins are created equally.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

under_control said:


> Animal based protein is a problem. Not all proteins are created equally.


Interesting. I have heard this before, but, is it true? If you check the label of a qualitySpirulina or algae flake, I'm sure you will see fish meal high on the list of ingredients. This would be the main source of animal protein in the food. Recently, we had a speaker at our club speaking on fish nutrition. He said fish require certain amino acids, and their source is irrelevant; it could be animal or vegetable. The company he works for has been making a high grade commercial hatchery food for a good many years, and recently added a koi food that is suitable for cichlids.


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## under_control (Jan 9, 2008)

While I think there is merit to this discussion, I would not use a fish food manufacturer as a source for anything without a scientific study to back it up. He most certainly has something to gain by selling his product to people who otherwise wouldn't buy it.

I can tell you from a purely scientific basis that animal protein and plant protein are not the same. For humans each has downfalls.


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## xalow (May 10, 2007)

How about cichlid forum conduct its own study? Does anyone have a bunch of mbuna that receive otherwise identical care and are all from the same brood that they would be willing to try a bunch of different foods on?


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## under_control (Jan 9, 2008)

Nutritionally, animal based protein has more calories, more fat, more cholesterol, and much less of several vitamins and minerals than plant based protein.

I believe there is sound reasoning behind the argument that normally herbivores species should not be fed animal protein on a regular basis.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

When I had them, I followed Dr. Paul Loiselle's suggestion ... no bloodworms except the _Labidochromis_ genus. He did recommend them to these mbuna, but not if they are in a mixed tank with other mbuna.


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## John7429 (Apr 12, 2009)

Is there a specific reason for your desire to feed the worms?


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## Emmanuel (May 21, 2009)

Welcome Rachel, I believe that what you have are probably live blackworms. A lot of pet shops call them bloodworms. If you have ever bought frozen bloodworms, THOSE are bloodworms. It's important that you NOT try to feed them. Any food you put in with them will only foul the water and make the die faster. And be sure to rinse them with COLD water daily and keep them in the fridge. There are fairly complete instructions here:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/worms.shtml


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

under_control said:


> While I think there is merit to this discussion, I would not use a fish food manufacturer as a source for anything without a scientific study to back it up. He most certainly has something to gain by selling his product to people who otherwise wouldn't buy it.
> 
> I can tell you from a purely scientific basis that animal protein and plant protein are not the same. For humans each has downfalls.


Well, since nothing was being sold, and Martins has been around for around 90 years, and been selling aquaculture foods for most of them, they do have some experience in the field. So, while their criteia may be slightly different than yours or mine, they have many satisfied customers. For sure, feeding fish grown for food, where optimal growth at lowest cost is the driving force, having scientific studies done is necessary. There was lots of scientific data presented to back the claims of what constitutes good nutrition. One interesting thing was the damage caused by digestible cabohydrates in the food. Enlarged livers is one common afflication caused by carbs. Digestable carbs were not a problem with old steam methods of producing pellets, but modern extrusion techniques create carbs that are digestible, necessitating it's exclusion from the food.


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