# Is My Lab Sick, Or Pregnant?



## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

I'm completely new to the world of Cichlids, well the actual fish that is.

I'm trying to figure out why my one Lab is acting somewhat strange.

I just checked my water, I have:
0 Ammonia
a slight trace of Nitrite, just a tint over the bright baby blue color
8.2 PH
20 Nitrate

55 Gallon, been running for about 2 months. Had the Labs for maybe 4-5 weeks.

I have the 3 Yellow Labs, 2 are completely Yellow and the third is yellow, but not as much. It also has a white stomach area.

It's always in the back corner. And whenever I go up to the tank, it races back there, and does this weird upside down thing. 
It seems like it's protecting something.
Also, it has these red/orange dots on the white area of it's stomach.

Here's some pics, but I can't get close enough to show the dots.

Maybe it's sick, injured? But when you tap the glass or something it swims away and everything, it just always hovers around that back corner


















Thanks. (All the other fish are acting normal)


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## fishaddict09 (Jun 1, 2010)

That lab is sick. Yellow labs are maternal mouthbrooders, who lay eggs that are then taken into the mouth of the female where they remain until they hatch and are spit out.
I would suggest you remove the fish and put it into a quarantine tank, if you have one.


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## fishaddict09 (Jun 1, 2010)

It is hard to diagnose from the picture but it could be Hemorrhagic Septicemia or columnaris.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

I don't have a quarantine tank.
I just fed them, and it came up to eat and everything, but then went right back down in the back corner.

So should I do if I don't have another tank...

Is this one of those things that all the fish are going to get?


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## Artsey (Dec 5, 2010)

Ya its definitely sick. I would go get a 5 or 10 gallon tank and quarantine it just in case whatever it has can kill your other fish.

Just so you know for the future: 
The male and female do their little dance in the tank and furtilize the eggs and as they are doing that the female scoops the eggs up in her mouth. They then hold the eggs that later hatch into baby fry in there mouth until they are strong enough to swim and take care of themselves. If you notice that a fish is not eating and this has been going on for a while (Up to a month) Just look and see if they are holding their mouth closed like there mouth is full. They puff their gills more to oxygenate the fry and every once in a while they will look like they are eating something, but they are just re adjusting the baby's in their mouth. I'm not a expert but I've been breeding my fish for a few years and I know what to look for. Just so you know for the future. The female will be chased a lot so its better for her to separate her and let her relax because she can't eat. I didn't have anyone to tell me and I had no idea what was wrong with my fish...so I'm giving you the heads up now  Good luck with your fish!


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

Artsey said:


> Ya its definitely sick. I would go get a 5 or 10 gallon tank and quarantine it just in case whatever it has can kill your other fish.
> 
> Just so you know for the future:
> The male and female do their little dance in the tank and furtilize the eggs and as they are doing that the female scoops the eggs up in her mouth. They then hold the eggs that later hatch into baby fry in there mouth until they are strong enough to swim and take care of themselves. If you notice that a fish is not eating and this has been going on for a while (Up to a month) Just look and see if they are holding their mouth closed like there mouth is full. They puff their gills more to oxygenate the fry and every once in a while they will look like they are eating something, but they are just re adjusting the baby's in their mouth. I'm not a expert but I've been breeding my fish for a few years and I know what to look for. Just so you know for the future. The female will be chased a lot so its better for her to separate her and let her relax because she can't eat. I didn't have anyone to tell me and I had no idea what was wrong with my fish...so I'm giving you the heads up now  Good luck with your fish!


Thanks for the info.

I wonder if what this fish has is going to spread, I can't find anything online about what it might be from what I search on.

It's swimming around normally now it seems, and just came up and ate and everything. So maybe it's just s bruise or something? And just will take some time?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Gumbo_Ghost said:


> maybe it's just s bruise or something? And just will take some time?


The injuries on my fish are not red...just missing scales or a split or nipped fin. It's the red that makes me think it might be more serious.

Also that posture is one you see in a very unhappy fish.

So I would net the fish and put her in a clear glass/plastic straight sided-container and take her picture. Or even hold her in the net with wet hands and take her picture. And post in the Illness forum.

I googled hemorhagic septicemia and it does sound like what you describe, check this out:
http://www.angelfire.com/blues/fish_pro ... CEMIA.html

I have never had red marks so I can't help. Hope everything comes out OK! :thumb:


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

That link does seem like what's going on...
But my Ammonia levels are good, so I'm not sure that would have caused it.

I actually tried to catch it earlier for about 30 minutes, and it would not be caught.
There's too many rocks in there for it to wiggle under and escape.

It's impossible to catch this thing.

At least according to that site, it's a 1 fish only disease. So hopefully it won't spread, that would really suck.


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

30 minutes?! Just added a whole lot of stress to an already stressed fish... Take out all the rocks next time.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

dielikemoviestars said:


> 30 minutes?! Just added a whole lot of stress to an already stressed fish... Take out all the rocks next time.


Well not non-stop, I'd come and go, waiting for it to come out.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You pretty much want to take out all the rocks when netting fish. Some people have luck at midnight with a flashlight when they are sleeping. I can never tell which fish then, LOL.

So are you going to treat?


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## Artsey (Dec 5, 2010)

I don't remove all my rocks that would take forever. I just turn off the lights in my tank and a few hours later when they are quiet and resting I stand there with the net in the water so they are not scared of it and when the fish is close and near the wall I get it in the net against the glass. I don't try and chaise for a long time though if I don't catch the fish after a minute I'll go and come back later to try again. Everyone has their own way.

One thing you could do that is cheaper then going to buy a new tank. Go out and buy a air pump and bubble rock just a small one. And a Betta container. You know the little clear container with the colored lid. The container has a hole in the top where you can put the tubing through then you attach the bubble rock on the inside of the container and the other end of the tubing to the air pump. Then you put your fish in there with the bubbler going INSIDE your tank. That way they are safe from being picked on and they are able to recuperate without being taken out of the tank. The bubbler keeps the air flow going through and circulating the water. I do that with my fish when I just want them separated from the others. Then to feed the fish you just take a bit of food pinched in your fingers put your arm down in the tank and drop it through the little slats in the top of the lid. I always drop the food in the same place so they come to expect it and they will eat. Don't give too much you want them to eat all the food. I would leave the bottom bare of rock so that if the food goes on the ground they will still eat it. Maybe that will help you a bit!


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

Unfortunately the Yellow Lab died.
HOWEVER... Now the other female lab is doing the same thing.

Just floating up against the side of the glass, and "standing" against the side of the tank.

It doesn't have any of the red marks or anything like the first one, but it just hangs out at the top corner of the tank or along the sides "Standing up"

I'm kind of thinking it might be Ammonia Poisoning, the more I research it.

I know that at higher PH levels ammonia is more lethal, but my Ammonia is consistently at a .15 lets say.
It's not 0 (Yellow) and it's not quite the first color of the .25 (Lime Green)
I've tried everything to get it down to 0, but my tap water is a strong 1PPM. So water changes don't really help. :x

I have Stability and also Amquel, should I use that, try to knock it down to 0 completely?
Also, the PH fluctuates from 7.4 to 8.0 depending on when I did the water change.

- But with the Ammonia poisoning, shouldn't all the fish be showing signs? It seems odd that the only 2 having the problems are the female labs.
The male Yellow Lab is fine as well.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

Here are some more photos...

Do those black markings look weird to anyone else?
Like right along the spine area, there are these black markings. Is that just some kind of unique mark or something worse?

It's not quite laying down like the first photos I took days ago, but it's up a little bit. I tried to capture it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What killed the first fish? Was she eating at the end? Any white thready poop?

I'd say either someone is harassing the second one or she has been infected by whatever killed the first one and being weak, she is now being harassed.

Marks are probably due to stress.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

I'm not sure what killed the first fish.
Overnight it must have died.

It did have a white fuzzy area around it's side, where the original red marks were.

As far as being harassed, I'm not seeing anything picking on it.
Even when it's just sitting there, nobody is really going up to it.

How can you avoid harassment in general?
I've got a lot of rocks and plants, and thought my mix wouldn't really bother each other.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Stocking and aquascaping can minimize harassment. What is your stocking and what are the dimensions of your tank?

You might try to add rock to increase the height of the rocks, some say stack it to the waterline.

It's important to try to determine what killed the fish, so it does not kill the rest. Did the fish eat the day before it died?

Maybe the first fish was sick and even if there is no aggression now, additional fish might have been infected.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> Stocking and aquascaping can minimize harassment. What is your stocking and what are the dimensions of your tank?
> 
> You might try to add rock to increase the height of the rocks, some say stack it to the waterline.
> 
> ...


My tank is 4 feet long, 20 inches high, and 12 inches deep.
My stocking:
2 Yellow Labs (Down the 1)
2 Zebra Obliquidens
2 Red Peacocks (I believe both female, but not 100%)
2 Sunshine Peacocks
2 "Deep Water Hap", still not sure what a better name for it is, it's light blue now with a tiny yellow on the top fin.

As far as stacking goes, I'm afraid to go real high, and right now most landscape stores nearby are done for winter. I think I have 150lbs in there.

Before it died, and while it was acting weird, it would still come up for food.
But then afterwards go back to it's corner.

I think I have pretty decent structures for hiding. That's actually the fish in question. She seems to be more out and about currently.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd try a stocking change. Malawi (and Victorians) are not a pairing fish and the male will harass one female, sometimes until she is sick or injuried and dies.

So for each species you want 1m:4f.

Because you need four females of each species, three species is a good number for a 48" x 12" tank.

One species of peacock per tank. They crossbreed and once mixed you are unlikely to be able to ID the females to separate by species. Among peacocks only the males are colorful...the brown/silver ones are females unless they are fry/juveniles.

If you would rather go all male and keep all your species, remove all females and select one male of each. If you do that you could add a couple fish.

Even if you don't witness aggression, any time you have a fish that is seen in that position in the tank is a red flag for harassment.

Regarding rocks, it's not so much you are trying to have sufficient hiding places...you are trying to have a convoluted-enough maze that it's easy for a fleeing fish to eventually lose the aggressor.

Actually a large portion of your stock is peacock/hap and they like to have open swimming space. So if you go all male, you will want to clear a portion of the tank.

Your Deep Water Hap is probably Placidochromis electra, check the Profiles to verify. Malawi > Haplochromine.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

As far as the stocking goes, it's just tough to figure out what mixes, you know?

I've asked people at stores, and people online, and sometimes you get "Yeah, they'll be fine together" and sometimes people will say "Get that out of there..."

Then at most stores they're just in the "African Cichlid" area and the person will say that all of them should mix.

The problem with taking out the females is it's hard for me to tell.
Like you said, I know that the color is a giveaway, but maybe they're still young.

The Red Peacocks really show no sign of Red, and I've had them about a month. But I'm not sure when the color would come in.
Same with the Sunshines


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

This afternoon I just layed around watching football and the tank.
The Male Yellow Lab is really bothering the Female is seems.

Chasing it a lot all throughout the tank, and when the female is just kind of sitting in the corner it goes up to her and pokes at her until she moves and then it chases her.

I think I'm going to get maybe 2 more female labs, I hope that might alleviate some of the chasing.

Or maybe try to trade the male in for a female.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

So I ended up buying 2 more females this afternoon.
The male has already chased them all into the corner basically, and taunts them.

Maybe this male is just an ass


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Two females may not be enough, and adding two fish to an established tank can be troublesome (I like to add at least 6 at a time). Labs like to be in groups of 5-6. Actually I'm surprised the other fish are not giving you problems...my "zebra obliquidens" is the pushy one in my tank.


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

I added those 2 new Labs maybe 6-8 hours ago...

Is it normal for cichlids to change colors really quick, or start showing?
Is it perhaps a male after-all? It seems to have the black fins and such.

It looks completely different now.

This was taken yesterday night:










This is what the same fish looks like now, and it seems to be out and about a lot more:


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## Gumbo_Ghost (Sep 25, 2010)

As far as the other fish in the tank, they're completely good for the time being.
The Zebra Obliquidens are the most active, but they don't chase or anything.

The only one in the tank that really chases more than what appears to be "play" is the 1 Lab

And 1 final thing, of the 2 new labs I bought, this guy looks pretty different. Is it actually a lab or something else?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The pale fish was stressed and colored up when he became comfortable in your tank. The last pic has the dorsal stripe which is the main identifying feature for a lab, just maybe not the best specimen and maybe sub-dominant. Maybe others can tell you something from the profile, I'm not good at visual ID.


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