# Help me choose a barred mbuna



## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

Setting up a new 5', 120 gallon strictly Mbuna tank. Need your help picking the most awesome barred fish out there.

Tank mates will be...

Red Top Thumbi West 1m:7f
Maingano 1m:7f
Elongatus Chewere 1m:7f

What barred mbuna would YOU add to this mix?

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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

:thumb: The elongatus are barred. You are done.

Pseudotropheus sp. "Perspicax Orange Cap" ? You are going aggressive this time?


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> :thumb: The elongatus are barred. You are done.
> 
> Pseudotropheus sp. "Perspicax Orange Cap" ? You are going aggressive this time?


DJ, I don't consider Chewere as barred. I want to add a fourth species with nicely defined barring.
This is for a new 5' 120 gallon project for the basement. I've switched over to haps and peacocks probably over a decade ago and now I'm itching for a mbuna tank, I miss it.

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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I did not find the mix of heavy bars and light bars to work. But Cynotilapia sp. hara is the most opposite of the chewere that you will find.

For me the hara survived but did not show their best colors in the tank with a barred fish.

The fish consider each other barred, even if you don't.

https://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpbb/vie ... 9&t=256964


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> I did not find the mix of heavy bars and light bars to work. But Cynotilapia sp. hara is the most opposite of the chewere that you will find.
> 
> For me the hara survived but did not show their best colors in the tank with a barred fish.
> 
> ...


DJ, on my list it's the Labeotropheus Trewavasae Red Top, not the Persipax.

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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Oh nice! I never heard them called Red Tops.


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> Oh nice! I never heard them called Red Tops.


DJ please feel free to suggest a 4 species mix. The only MUST HAVE for me is the Labeotropheus Trewavasae Thumbi West.
With that group we will have the light blue and the pale orange.

What I don't want...
Labidochromis (any) 
Red Zebra
Acei 
Rusty

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## jcover (Apr 18, 2014)

Cynotilapia species are nice... males are anyways..
Pseudotropheus demasoni are very beautiful, but present unique challenges.
Saulosi are amazing fish to keep. Very colourful males and females. Or Pseudotropheus msobo?


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

jcover said:


> Cynotilapia species are nice... males are anyways..
> Pseudotropheus demasoni are very beautiful, but present unique challenges.
> Saulosi are amazing fish to keep. Very colourful males and females. Or Pseudotropheus msobo?


Demasoni I don't want to go there too much of a headache.
Saulosi may be an option actually.

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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you want a blue barred fish I would do the hara.

I think they will do better with the elongatus than any other blue barred fish. They have colorful females. You don't have any other mid-blue fish.

The yellow-orange saulosi would not be a huge contrast with the pale orange labeotropheus females. IMO you need more blue.


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> If you want a blue barred fish I would do the hara.
> 
> I think they will do better with the elongatus than any other blue barred fish. They have colorful females. You don't have any other mid-blue fish.
> 
> The yellow-orange saulosi would not be a huge contrast with the pale orange labeotropheus females. IMO you need more blue.


So...
Labeotropheus Trewavasae
Maingano
Chewere
Hara

Too much blue maybe?

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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you want bars but are willing to skip the blue, consider the Victorian astatotilapia? Black/white bars and males also have the red and yellow.


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> If you want bars but are willing to skip the blue, consider the Victorian astatotilapia? Black/white bars and males also have the red and yellow.


Nah, I don't want to mix lakes. 
I think that the Hara will fit the bill for bars so I'll try Trewavasae Thumbi, Maingano, Chewere and Hara. I plan to have lots of Trewavasae female so the color mix should be quite even.
OR
Trewavasae Thumbi, Maingano, Elongatus Mpanga, and a very red strain of Estherae.

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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Cynotilapia "afra" types have the best barring IMO, and it is fun to watch the males color up from dull to full dominant BB color, often very quickly. 
Hara might be very good, since they are the light opposite of the dark Chewere, and you get some blue in the tank.


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

So we've made a change to our list. We decided to go with Demasoni instead of Maingano. I've never kept Demasoni so some advice would be appreciated.

Labeotropheus Trewavasae Thumbi
Demasoni
White Top Hara
Red Zebra (still not sure)

Will aim for 1m: 8f for all groups.

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## ken31cay (Oct 9, 2018)

I have 1m:9f Kenyi & Trewavasae Chilumba, plus 1m;2f ob peacocks in my (6') 180gal and even now it's getting too crowded for my tastes. I have one half filled to the top with rocks, the other half partially filled/broken rockwork. This is my first all-mbuna tank. Won't 36 mbuna in the 120gal be a little crowded?

RE: Demasoni: I've had these in mixed malawi tanks and they are pretty but they all eventually died for reasons I couldn't identify. I've heard they're 'delicate' and best kept in species-only tanks.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

ken31cay said:


> IRE: Demasoni: I've had these in mixed malawi tanks and they are pretty but they all eventually died for reasons I couldn't identify. I've heard they're 'delicate' and best kept in species-only tanks.


Maybe mixing with other blue barred fish like kenyi?


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

So, changed my list again based on what I can actually get my hands on.

Membe Deep 1m:6f
OB Red Zebra 1m:6f
Kenyi 1m:6f

I have orange, yellow, and blue and bars covered.

What do y'all think?

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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

All metriaclima though. Some solids in each species. OB versus solid is not different enough.

With kenyi you probably want a 72" tank. Very aggressive. 1m:7f at least.

The Membe Deep females and OB females will not have much contrast.

You can get your hands on Membe Deep! Grab them!!


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## ken31cay (Oct 9, 2018)

Yes the Kenyi in my tank are so aggressive, even more than the Trewavasae who are themselves maniacs. These were all I could get locally and my africans supplier in the U.S. doesn't do mbuna. If you can get better mbuna (less aggressive, more colorful) then I'd do that in a heartbeat.


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> All metriaclima though. Some solids in each species. OB versus solid is not different enough.
> 
> With kenyi you probably want a 72" tank. Very aggressive. 1m:7f at least.
> 
> ...


I'm very open to suggestions. I know I can get Membe Deep for sure, ten 1" fry.
I can also get Demasoni for the blue barred instead of the Kenyi. 
We're just missing deep orange or red. The Membe Deep females are mustard yellow I was send a video of the parents.

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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There is no red. The cherry red estherae are the closest...the orange color in my avatar behind the demasoni.

So that means no Membe Deep since they are both Metriaclima with solid females.

Yellow with colorful females is yellow labs, but you don't want to mix with estherae.

For you to prioritize between the orange and yellow.

If you go demasoni (I thought you did not like aggression? or tinkering?) then do 15 in a 75G after removing extra males.


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> There is no red. The cherry red estherae are the closest...the orange color in my avatar behind the demasoni.
> 
> So that means no Membe Deep since they are both Metriaclima with solid females.
> 
> ...


I don't like aggression and I don't like tinkering loll, but I guess I'm willing to do it to get a beautiful end result. Yellow labs are not an option as I already have a colony in a different tank. I want something new. Will Demasoni and Membe be a good mix?

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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes. You could throw in Acei or White Labs or Maingano if you want a 3rd species.


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> Yes. You could throw in Acei or White Labs or Maingano if you want a 3rd species.


I wish I was able to get some Labidochromis Lundu, white with black bars. Haven't seen them in probably a decade. Do you have any tips for Demasoni?

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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No. All the ones I have purchased from vendors have been terrible in recent years.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Mudkicker1 said:


> I can also get Demasoni for the blue barred instead of the Kenyi.


If it's a choice between kenyi and demasoni, I think you are much better off with demasoni. Unless you are really up for the challenge of maintaining an aggressive cichlid, I'd avoid kenyi. 
IME and IMO, demasoni is a far easier cichlid to keep then Kenyi. While demasoni is also an aggressive mbuna, it is not nearly as likely to become an aggression problem like kenyi often do.
Have kept demasoni in 4 tanks for almost 5 years now (for periods of time in 5 tanks). I don't keep them anywhere near groups of 12+. There is a thread on another cichlid forum (that is no longer available and I can no longer link to) with many posters having success with demasoni in small numbers. So it is not uncommon. It is not some kind of iron clad law that you need to maintain larger numbers of them to have success though i think it a good idea to start off with larger numbers just like any other mbuna and get rid of extra males fairly soon. I keep them as follows: 180 gal: 1m:2f, 125 gal: 1m: 4f, 75 gal: 1m:3f , 90 gal: 1m in an all male, though I had group for over 3 years in the 90 gal. until i moved females to another tank. I was leery to begin with, to tinker with the groups, but have since moved fish around from one tank to another many times to suit my purposes with out any real problems other then once. I replaced my larger dominant male in my 75 gal. with a small, young male. I had a war break out between my older females and lost a couple but that could happen to any cichlid group when a "power vacuum" occurs when the dominant fish of a group is removed. 
IME, only auratus has been a more difficult mbuna to keep then kenyi.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Kenyi are not really a good example of a barred mbuna anyway, the barring does not intensify with dominance. Adults are often not as attractive as juviniles. Demasoni are really mostly concerned with each other, they seem to be at constant war with their own species. Monomorphic are not less stressed out than barred fish that change, you just can't tell as easily.


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## ironspider (Dec 5, 2017)

I had two Demasoni in my 55g with a bunch of cobalts, labs and rusties. They did fine, one stayed on one side of the tank and the other on the other side, they didn't fight, although one didn't color up well, the stronger of the two was gorgeous but the other was and still is super drab looking. I lost the strong one (Zed) recently (yes, he was so cool we named him) for reasons unknown, nobody messed with him. IMO Demasoni is one of the most beautiful widely available mbuna's.


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

I have the chance to order the following...

Labeotropheus Fulleborni Eccles Reef
Labeotropheus Trewavasae Ochre Chilumba

Which would you get?
Tank mates will be...
Pseudotropheus Membe Deep
White Top Hara

Thank you

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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The ochre although I don't love the color. I think you have a fair amount of blue.


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## ken31cay (Oct 9, 2018)

noki said:


> Kenyi are not really a good example of a barred mbuna anyway, the barring does not intensify with dominance. Adults are often not as attractive as juviniles.


+1.

My female Kenyi were much better looking when they were small and now they're a faded blueish color most of the time, can barely see bars. The male is a nice sharp yellow-orange though.


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

*UPDATE*
So far I have procured a group of Labeotropheus Trewavasae Chilumba Orche and a group of Afra White Top Hara.
I'd like to hear your suggestions for a third and final species for this set up.

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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would do the maingano, but the membe deep should work as well.


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## ken31cay (Oct 9, 2018)

Mudkicker1 said:


> So far I have procured a group of Labeotropheus Trewavasae Chilumba Orche...


I very much like the ones I have. Though I'd like to replace my Kenyi with something else as soon as my lfs has a suitable replacement.


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## Mudkicker1 (Aug 6, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> I would do the maingano, but the membe deep should work as well.


I have the Membe Deep in a separate tank for now. But for this project I was thinking maybe Elongatus Neon Spot just not sure how drab the females will be.

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