# melanochromis Johanni



## Lunhatikk (May 12, 2008)

G'day.

My friend has a Johanni she wants to get rid of as it is killing all her other fish. I have always wanted african cichlids so told her I'd take it off her hands. Anyway, long story short, I'm a n00b when it comes to aquariums and fishkeeping so was wondering:

1) Do fish get lonely? I was intending on having just this one Johanni by himself in a small fishtank

2) Is it ok that it's only a 30L fishtank, do cichlids have to have bigger fishtanks or is that only if there's more than one, or one species?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, I just want the fish to be happy and live a long life so if it would be better to get another fish for company or whatever I'd like to know. TIA


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You can keep a lone johanni in a tank that size, but he isn't going to be overly happy.

I'd go with something more appropriate for your tank size. There are dwarf SA cichlids that would work, and some of the Tanganyikan shell dwellers.

Kim


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## Lunhatikk (May 12, 2008)

I'm just taking the johanni because it's killing all my friends other cichlids and she was talking about flushing it. I'd rather keep it!!

I'm not 100% it's johanni yet, I'll have to wait till I get it on Monday. It may be the other fish that's commonly mistaken for a johanni, we'll see.

Any other suggestions would be welcomed if you got them so I can keep this one? Would I be able to fit any other fish in the tank with him? Maybe a couple females? How do you think an algae eater would go? I'm thinking he'd probably eat it right?

Thanks for your response!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the tank? 30 liter or 30 long?

Either way, I don't think additional fish are going to work. You'd probably want a 55G tank to add females successfully.


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## Lunhatikk (May 12, 2008)

30 litre (10 USA gallon), it's 1 foot square.

I was thinking I could only have the male Johanni, I just don't want him to get lonely and thought I'd ask some more experienced people just in case. *shrugs*

Oh well, I guess I'll just see how he goes by himself and then maybe see if I can convince hubby to let me get a bigger tank. I'd love one but I had to fight to get this tank heh.

thanks for the advice, i appreciate all the info I can get :thumb:


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

IMO 10 gallon is too small, even with a thirty gallon most any fish you put in would not survive. Good luck on getting a bigger tank, thats been my goal for awhile now. :wink:


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## Lunhatikk (May 12, 2008)

*sigh* I've been waiting for someone to say that, seeing as he (could) grow to almost half the width of the tank. Doesn't give him much room to swim. I've heard they only grow according to the tank size, is that right or just a myth?

The poor thing seems to be doomed to death either way


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Myth yes, well kinda. If a fish is kept in a tank too small for it they are stunted. Stunting is that they do not grow properly, thet are deformed.

He should be ok in the 10 short term with lots of water changes, until you get a bigger tank :thumb: Johannii are very territoral if there is not enough territory it will kill the other fish to make room for itself, this includes females of its own kind. They are one of my favorite Mbuna, when properly kept they have a very cool attitude, mine does not bully the other fish he acts as the peace keeper .... as long as no one gets out of line hes cool. Good luck..

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=760


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## QHgal (May 18, 2006)

This fish killing off your friends other fish make me curious...  what size tank does he/she have and what other fish? If a johanni is going nuts, it makes me wonder if she has adequate tank size and compatable species.

Also, no, you can not put any african cichlid in a 10 gal tank long term. he might be alright in there for a short while, but only long enough for you to get another tank, and that would have to be pretty quick. I woulnd't keep him in there for more than a few days. If you could get your hands on something like a 55, that would be perfect. Then, you could either get females for him, and/or add a few other species with him.


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

.... or a 40g long, sometimes cheaper, same foot print as a 55 but not quite as high. Still need to keep lots of hiding places and I'd only put in a couple of females as tankmates.


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## Lunhatikk (May 12, 2008)

QHgal said:


> This fish killing off your friends other fish make me curious... what size tank does he/she have and what other fish? If a johanni is going nuts, it makes me wonder if she has adequate tank size and compatable species.


She has a 4 foot tank, dunno what that is volume wise. I don't remember ALL the fish she has, but she has a pair of convicts, a pair of guorami's (sorry not sure of spelling), a couple dolphins and yellow ones... other than that I'm not sure what she's got in there.


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

She needs to fix her stocking, some of those fish dont belong together.


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## Lunhatikk (May 12, 2008)

Mitch101 said:


> She needs to fix her stocking, some of those fish dont belong together.


Like what? The Johanni is the only one she's been having trouble with, the rest seem fine together. But I'm more than happy to learn more for that day when I have a nice big one to stock  

Do you think maybe she'll start having trouble with some of the others when the Johanni is removed?


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Dont want to be a killjoy but, some of the fish mentioned are from different parts of the world, they have different needs, water, diet, territory, etc..

My guess is the convicts are small, yet to mature, my bet is they will be the last fish swimming depending what other fish are in the tank. Or most will die of disease due to stress.


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## Lunhatikk (May 12, 2008)

Mitch101 said:


> Dont want to be a killjoy but, some of the fish mentioned are from different parts of the world, they have different needs, water, diet, territory, etc..
> 
> My guess is the convicts are small, yet to mature, my bet is they will be the last fish swimming depending what other fish are in the tank. Or most will die of disease due to stress.


Go ahead be a killjoy!  haha. I'd love any information you could give me about her tank that I could pass on to her cause then when things start happening I can explain to her why. She's under the impression that all her fish are Lake Malawi Cichlids, is this not so? Can you tell me where they come from?

I know her blue dolphins are quite big fish, I'm not sure about the convicts all I know is they are a breeding pair. When she's talking about them I get the impression they're all really big fish cause apparently the Johanni is small compared to them and I think he's about 3.5 inches.

And just a little off topic here if you don't mind. I have started this tank and after only 4 days the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels are all 0,  is this possible? I did add stuff like amtrite to the tank is that why it happened so fast? I was under the impression it wouldn't be ready for 4 weeks, not in 4 days. Unless I tested wrong which I don't believe I did, I followed the instructions *shrugs* or will the ammonia build up once there are fish added? Sorry, I'm such a n00b with all this and I'm so nosy, I like to know everything :lol:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Convicts and gourami's are not from Lake Malawi.

The fish add the ammonia, unless you are adding the chemical ammonia instead (which is preferred). No cycling will start without ammonia. Not familiar with amtrite. There is a product called bio spira which contains the live bacteria. If using bio spira, you would add the fish at the same time (to create the ammonia to feed the bacteria and keep it alive).


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## Mitch101 (Sep 15, 2007)

Gourami - Asian - not a cichlid - it is in the Anabantid family

Convict - Central America - cichlid - maybe, Archocentrus Nigrofasciatus.... The "brawler" able to hold its own against fish twice its size. It average size 6"....thats putting a wopin on a 12" fish...  
When breeding a pair will work in tandum to oust the intruders, they will probably claim the whole tank for themselves.  Ask about them in the Central American Cichlids section.

Your tank is not cycled until you are getting NitrAtes. If possible get some of your friends filter media that will speed up the process, as mentioned bio spira is the only over the counter (quick cycle) that works, the other stuff is just a waste of money.

Hope you can get a bigger tank :thumb: and me too...


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I don't know what I could add to help any further. Looks like you got some great advice here. Maybe read up some more on cycling the tank. Sounds like you don't quite understand it completely. If you can't find the bio spira, or afford it, you can cycle using plain household ammonia (non scented and non sudzing) or use the fish to cycle with some of your friends used filter media. It's not preferred to use the fish because it can be hard on the fish, but it can be done if you have a good test kit and can test every day, sometimes more than once a day, and do frequent water changes (sometimes more than once a day too).
Asking questions isn't being nosey IMO, it's a good thing to understand as much as you can about fish and fish keeping when you take it on as a hobby. I'm proud of you for it :thumb:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If your friend will give you a used filter cartridge or even some substrate that's been in her established tank for more than 2 weeks, you can instantly cycle the tank by bringing in established bacteria. Bring the fish at the same time though.


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## Lunhatikk (May 12, 2008)

DJRansome said:


> If your friend will give you a used filter cartridge or even some substrate that's been in her established tank for more than 2 weeks, you can instantly cycle the tank by bringing in established bacteria. Bring the fish at the same time though.


Yeah I was gonna ask about getting some of her substrate cause I've asked her for some of that. I could also ask about her filter cartridge too I guess. Thanks for all your help/input I really appreciate it


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## Lunhatikk (May 12, 2008)

Dewdrop said:


> I don't know what I could add to help any further. Looks like you got some great advice here. Maybe read up some more on cycling the tank. Sounds like you don't quite understand it completely. If you can't find the bio spira, or afford it, you can cycle using plain household ammonia (non scented and non sudzing) or use the fish to cycle with some of your friends used filter media. It's not preferred to use the fish because it can be hard on the fish, but it can be done if you have a good test kit and can test every day, sometimes more than once a day, and do frequent water changes (sometimes more than once a day too).
> Asking questions isn't being nosey IMO, it's a good thing to understand as much as you can about fish and fish keeping when you take it on as a hobby. I'm proud of you for it :thumb:


I'm not sure what household ammonia is heh :? and I'm not sure if we get bio spira here in Oz, probably though right? I'll have to go down to the LFS and ask them. I think I have good test kits and I'm happy to do it more than once a day if necessary and change the tank water often. I've seen pics of the Johanni and he's JuST So GoRGeouS!! So I'm willing to put in some hard work to keep him alive... the hardest work will be trying to convince hubby to let me spend the money on a bigger tank so I can have him and MORE! hehe


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Lunhatikk said:


> I'm not sure what household ammonia is heh :? and I'm not sure if we get bio spira here in


Just staight amonia, no scents, flavors or soaps, not sure if I read this right but do NOT put it in your tank that currently has the Johanni in, this is for setting up a new, empty tank, search out "Fishless Cycleing" here.



Lunhatikk said:


> .... So I'm willing to put in some hard work to keep him alive... the hardest work will be trying to convince hubby to let me spend the money on a bigger tank so I can have him and MORE! hehe


ATTA GIRL!!! :thumb:


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## stuckinthemiddle (Feb 26, 2008)

Check the local newspaper ads and the internet/ebay. I bet you can get a large tank for half the cost than what the LFS is selling them at.

Dont know if they have craigs list over there, but thats where I got one of my tanks for next to nothing.

I got lucky too...someone gave me a 55g saltwater tank/stand/set up, etc for free and I just converted it to fresh water.

Good luck!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you do the filter cartridge, you don't need to do the ammonia because you will have a ready-made bacteria population and should add fish immediately.


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## Lunhatikk (May 12, 2008)

stuckinthemiddle said:


> Check the local newspaper ads and the internet/ebay. I bet you can get a large tank for half the cost than what the LFS is selling them at.
> 
> Dont know if they have craigs list over there, but thats where I got one of my tanks for next to nothing.
> 
> ...


Yeah good idea  thanks I'll do that. Still have to convince hubby he's frustrating when it comes to pets of any kind! I kind of didn't give him a choice with this one lol. I'd only be able to buy a bigger one if it was cheap and came with everything I need, substrate, heater, filter, etc. Fingers crossed though, I'll find something :thumb:


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## Lunhatikk (May 12, 2008)

DJRansome said:


> If you do the filter cartridge, you don't need to do the ammonia because you will have a ready-made bacteria population and should add fish immediately.


Yeah got it  thank you. I had decided just to grab some of her substrate when she brings the fish over tomorrow. Need a bigger tank !!!!


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