# what vitamins should i use for beef heart mix



## random-cichlid (Dec 9, 2011)

hey guys my mate has gave me a recipe for a beef heart recipe but it just states vitamins like b etc is there anything u guys can share on what vitamins will be great for my discus 
cheers


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Beef heart is not an appropriate choice for Discus in a planted tank IMHO. 
What were your four Discus raised on?


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## frschul (Mar 10, 2004)

I always use Polyvisol am multiple vitamin used for children... but over the years the cost has
gone up drasticly ... So I now use Vitatrol a mult-vitamin for birds..... same results but cheaper.


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## random-cichlid (Dec 9, 2011)

the discus were raised on this beef heart mix


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## random-cichlid (Dec 9, 2011)

if not beefheart in a planted tank what would i use
and would beefheart be a issue in a planted tank i am trying to understand what the issue would be


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Beefheart mixes are (generally speaking) very messy foods meant to maximize growth or to prime them for breeding. Feeding beefheart means, large water changes... Something not ideal for a planted tank.

Since that is what they were raised on, stick with it but begin transitioning to simpler foods like nls pellets. If you soak the pellet in with some beefheart, the Discus should begin to eat it quick enough. Consider looking up Tom Barrs estimative index for planted tanks since that method actually manages to combine large water changes and planted tanks. :thumb:


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## random-cichlid (Dec 9, 2011)

cheers number 6 u always seem to be the one to help me out and i thank u for this and yeah my discus are still young still growing out got them from breeder so there about 6o mm high atm should i try cut them down to only 1 beef heart feed per day and 2 dried feeds per day


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## random-cichlid (Dec 9, 2011)

cheers number 6 u always seem to be the one to help me out and i thank u for this and yeah my discus are still young still growing out got them from breeder so there about 6o mm high atm should i try cut them down to only 1 beef heart feed per day and 2 dried feeds per day for example like orca fine pelet there like 50 percent protien or something its what i use in my breeding tanks for my f1 electric yellows and firemouths and green terrors


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

That sounds like a good plan. Eventually i would get rid of the beefheart completely but take your time. I saw your other posts. 3 more Discus from the same source sounds like a good idea. Make sure the 3 left are eating well, not dark, etc before buying more. If they are dark, hiding or spiting out food, then just wait before buying any more. Watch the tank to make sure they are doing ok before buying more.


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## neutrino (May 4, 2007)

> Beefheart mixes are (generally speaking) very messy foods meant to maximize growth or to prime them for breeding. Feeding beefheart means, large water changes... Something not ideal for a planted tank.


I agree completely. And as I mentioned in your other thread it's totally viable to do quite well with discus without feeding beef heart-- in my opinion and experience it actually makes them easier to care for. Many fish benefit from a constant supply of fresh, clean water, discus are not special in this respect, but what makes voluminous water changes so critical for some discus keepers is the way they are feeding them.

Virtually any fish has an optimal protein content in their diet. Exceed the optimum and you get diminishing returns, including the end result that rather than using the excess for growth the fish produces extra ammonia. This has been demonstrated time after time in biological studies. That this includes discus has also been demonstrated in aquaculture studies such as the following.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2095.2000.00151.x/full


> Growth rate increased significantly with protein level up to 500 g kgÃ¢â‚¬â€œ1 diet and then decreased.


Despite the number of discus keepers devoted to beef heart, these things are not unknown in the hobby but are acknowledged by some experienced discus breeders:
http://www.rockymountaindiscus.com/Discus_Fish_Nutrition.htm


> Proteins not used for tissue reproduction are utilized as energy in discus nutrition. The metabolism of these proteins to sugars results in the release of highly toxic ammonia which is eliminated into the water by the gills (85%) and the kidneys (15%). The ammonia released into the aquarium is a pollutant. It is detoxified by the filter bacteria which use it as a food source. Thus, the use of a very high protein diet in discus fish nutrition puts an additional load on the filtration system and deteriorates aquarium water quality.


Like I said in your other thread, I'm not trying to start an argument or convert those from the beef heart school of discus keeping or tell you what to do with your own fish, but there are certainly alternative ways to good discus nutrition and growth.


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