# Which and how many Frontosa to start with (Burundi-Kigoma)



## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hello,

I'm about to get my 130gallon 60"x24"x24" Aquarium setup. I'm trying to plan on how make a nice unique little Frontosa colony.

I have 3 options of where to obtain Frontosas right now:

1) From the local pet shop barely 2" in size. Very small and very cute little Burundis. 20$ each+tax..Canadian
2) From a local breeder but an 1 hour drive away, same little 2" Burundis. 12$ each 
3) And from a closer breeder, 3-3.5" Kigomas (7 Stripe fronts). He wants 45-50$ each. I don't mind as they seem very unique and hard to get.

Can I add 5 2" Burundis from the local pet shop and 2 3.5" Kigoma Fronts?

Should I go visit the far away breeder in another 2 weeks (funds are drying up lol) and get another 2-3 2" Burundis from him?

How many do you guys think I should add, I want to give them a nice comfy life, they like company but I want to give them as much space as they need. :fish:

I've kept many cichlids in the past and used to breed Jaguar cichlids so I have some experience. Let me know what you guys think. Should I strive for a 2M:5F in the ends, or 3M:7F, or can I keep them all?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

You don't want different types... get one type, stick with it.

Personally, I'd be looking for a dozen to start with, maybe even 15. Aiming to keep three males, and whatever females you get.


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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

5ft is pretty tight for adult colonies but probably would work for a group of 2M/5F...may have to rehome the beta male but that's maybe 2 yrs from now if you're getting them at 2".

I'd recommend going to your local breeder to see the parents - good indication of how the fry will look at adult age. Best chance getting your M/F ratio at that age is size-gender rule but of course not guaranteed. Kigomas are nice but at that price, may as well import some F1 Zaires from US breeders (cyphos.com).


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

If you plan on breeding fish and selling fry, then I would not suggest mixing types either.
Nothing wrong with starting with 10-12 and then ending up with 5-7. You can sell off the others down the road and get your money back on them, ending with a nice group.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hey guys, thanks for the suggestions. I thought about it well and this is what I plan on doing. I will buy 3 Burundi Fronts from one pet shop and another 2 from another pet shop. They are about 1.5-2" long. Is that better for the gene pool, to get them from different places? I will try and choose 1 or 2 dominant looking ones and 2-3 shy smaller looking ones, although I know the chances are still slim to sex them this way.

Here's some pictures I took. Do these guys look like Burundi Frontosas? Thanks.


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

The " buy from two different places" idea is smart as long as you are sure they are the same variety.
I still think it is better to start with 10 and end with 5 rather than start with 5 and find out in two years you have 1F, 4M.
Not sure if Burundi , someone else can answer that.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

punman said:


> The " buy from two different places" idea is smart as long as you are sure they are the same variety.
> I still think it is better to start with 10 and end with 5 rather than start with 5 and find out in two years you have 1F, 4M.
> Not sure if Burundi , someone else can answer that.


Thanks Punman, I'll eventually get 7-10 from different sources. Here is another nice batch of fronts from another pet shop I visited today. Although they were in a bigger aquarium they acted very territorial.

If anyone knows what type they are, would appreciate it.


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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

yupp looks like Burundi to me...

Choosing 2-3 different sources is exactly what I did to get my mix gene pool of Mobas. Look for dark, solid bars on all the fronts you pick. Territorial behavior at that size isnt really an indicative of male or female. From the last photo, I'd probably grab the fish swimming up top or the biggest of the tank, and 3-4 of the smallest fish. Then repeat from another source. Make sure they're healthy with no sunken bellys - could indicate hexamita (internal parasite).

Good luck!


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

engotski said:


> yupp looks like Burundi to me...
> 
> Choosing 2-3 different sources is exactly what I did to get my mix gene pool of Mobas. Look for dark, solid bars on all the fronts you pick. Territorial behavior at that size isnt really an indicative of male or female. From the last photo, I'd probably grab the fish swimming up top or the biggest of the tank, and 3-4 of the smallest fish. Then repeat from another source. Make sure they're healthy with no sunken bellys - could indicate hexamita (internal parasite).
> 
> Good luck!


Sounds great, thanks buddy. Only small thing is that even though these pet shops are spread out, I think they could all be from the same breeder/batch or mom n dad or spawn...As its the same pet store chain. Tried to find some local breeders all busy with their regular peacock and other malawi cichlids...lol.


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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

Ah, yah you're right. Most likely from same source...most important is the male. If you can fine a male that isn't from the same blood line, you're golden.


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

I'd just go with it - you are on the right track and if you get them to breeding size in three years, at that point you can find an adult male from somebody. People are always thinning out colonies and that means moving out males so you won't have an issue finding that breed of fish down the road in male adult size.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

Great news, an ad just came up for Kigoma babies for sale. I will go get 5! Think a 7 stripe Kigoma and Burundi would breed if brought up 3 straight years together? Anyhow I will get 5 and 5 and just enjoy whatever happens. Let nature take its course.


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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

easywolf31 said:


> Great news, an ad just came up for Kigoma babies for sale. I will go get 5! Think a 7 stripe Kigoma and Burundi would breed if brought up 3 straight years together? Anyhow I will get 5 and 5 and just enjoy whatever happens. Let nature take its course.


hmmm I still echo not mixing frontosa types and yes they will interbreed. Just get 10 kigomas and call it a day! Kigs look way better than burundis IMO. Plus Burundis are so saturated in the market nowadays.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

engotski said:


> easywolf31 said:
> 
> 
> > Great news, an ad just came up for Kigoma babies for sale. I will go get 5! Think a 7 stripe Kigoma and Burundi would breed if brought up 3 straight years together? Anyhow I will get 5 and 5 and just enjoy whatever happens. Let nature take its course.
> ...


Ok sounds good, I will get 7-10 Kigoma and just 3 Burundi and trade or give away the Burundi or others in 2-3 years when they are older. I may even have 5 Aquariums by than, really getting back into the hobby after 20 years. THis will be fun. I'll manage them well though. I don't like interbreeding to be honest.


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## punman (Oct 24, 2003)

> I will get 7-10 Kigoma and just 3 Burundi and trade or give away the Burundi or others in 2-3 years when they are older


You certainly could do that but I would go with 10 Kigoma rather than 7K, 3B. Better chance to balance out the genders and avoid interbreeding. Your call though.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

punman said:


> > I will get 7-10 Kigoma and just 3 Burundi and trade or give away the Burundi or others in 2-3 years when they are older
> 
> 
> You certainly could do that but I would go with 10 Kigoma rather than 7K, 3B. Better chance to balance out the genders and avoid interbreeding. Your call though.


Hey, so I went and got 7 Kigomas. Already they are eating after 5 minutes in the aquarium. Really smart looking fish. They are with 2 blue dolphins now. If i see any stress or chasing I will give the dolphins to a friend. I may go back and get 3 more after a couple of weeks. Thanks for all the info. Feeding them 1mm Northfin Cichlid pellets and krill pellets.


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)




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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)




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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

Nice! Blue dolphins will nip fins. As they get older, you wouldn't want to miss out on those long trailer fins from your kigs


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## easywolf31 (Jan 19, 2017)

engotski said:


> Nice! Blue dolphins will nip fins. As they get older, you wouldn't want to miss out on those long trailer fins from your kigs


Looking good so far. Not one nipped fin. They seem to be getting along now. If I see one nipped fin I will send the dolphins elsewhere.


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