# has anyone ever seen something like this in a malawi?



## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

i dont really want to go over the water conditions ect as i have already exhausted that subject in previous threads ..

the symptoms are a red nose/mouth

red at the point where the fin connects with the body

red gills although you cant see that from this angle.

i am simply showing the condition in the hope that somone (maybe some new guys??) have seen something like this before...ie not sceptecmia or fin rot ..or ammonia burn.

that way i could work it back to what it might be.

it seems to mainly affect my labs and that includes labs from two differenet scources.

certain species as i said before remain untouched.

thinking maybe the water scource has some kind of trace element problem but wouldnt that effect all the fish?

its not a killer as of yet as far as i can tell and its been lingering in my tank for months now.

i have trawled the net including google images and books but havent seen anything like this.

thanks if you help !


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

My socolofi has this as well, none of my other fish have it, but I don't know what it is or how to get rid of it.
The strange thing is it has been this way for almost two years and there really hasn't been any health concern.
It eats, swims, breeds...... and nothing seems to be wrong.

You know what is kind of a funny coincidence, your picture looks like a hybrid.
Almost like a yellow lab mixed with a socolofi.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

ah....interesting. Now i wonder if our tanks have anything in common in terms of setup?

i see you are in palestine ..is that palestine next to israel!! just because i was wondering how hot your tank might be ..also do you run with high calcium content.

i ask this because my tank in the philippines runs at 28/29 centigrade (with a cooler...otherwise it would be 37 today!!) and the calcium content is pretty much saturated from a deep limestone well.

just thinking of things out of the usual that might cause this condition.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Actually, zazz, without the water conditions and various other pertinent facts, there isn't much we can do to help.

We shouldn't have to read through your other threads to find the info that we need, and we certainly can't be expected to remember everything about everyone's tanks. Besides, we need to know what's going on right now...Today...

Anything you have a fish that is having problems like this, water quality is the first place you want to look, since it could be beginning stages of septicemia.

If you want to give more information, I'll try to help you.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

sorry ..cichidaholic but the trouble is that we did have a some exchanges over the same problem a couple of times and the problem wasnt nailed and the threads just died ..so I was taking a different tack this time by just asking if anyone had seen this condition.

ph is between 8 and 9 
ammonia is zero 
no3 is 5mg/l 
no2 is on the lowest that the kit will show0.1 mg/l

150g tank..you said you thought i might have aggression problems when the fish reach maturity but at the moment that isnt a factor since they are still quite small.

the idea of scepticemia was discused before. I did look into it but the all photos of that condition are quite different. If somone could point me to a photo of a cichlid with red only at that point where the fin meets the body then even that one symptom could be a start.

As you mentioned before stress could be a factor and I dont disagree but I would just like to know if anyone had seen this elsewhere from a purely visual point of view.

interesting points are that only certain species are effected ..once it takes hold it doesnt get worse and it doesnt kill or even effect the behaviour. In some cases such as with my milomo i even think he has shaken it off...but it just looks so bad.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

i had a red zebra do this when i moved tanks.. NEVER went away, but never seemed to be a health problem..????? sorry i couldnt help


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

well acctually any acknowledgement that this condition exists is a help.. i am just wondering if this is some as yet undocumented ailment of cichlids??

thinking about it further ..the problem occurs at places where the fish has higher contact/intereaction with the water ...such as gills ..fin joints including the dorsal fin in some cases so it looks like a string of neat red dots along the backbone..and then of course the mouth/nose region.

almost seems like an alergy ..like it causes a rash but its more cosmetic than anything else.

maybe its tied in with a reduction of the slimy coat due to say very high calcium saturation?? that would go some way to explain why only certain species would be affected.

ps..i have to regularly de calcify all my impellers including my 2217s because they literally stop due to buildup of calcium...this is not normal for most people.


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## AnDyF_27 (Aug 7, 2008)

here go to this site it has a bunch of symptoms of infections and diseases fish have http://mysite.verizon.net/bonniehill/po ... ptoms.html


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## AnDyF_27 (Aug 7, 2008)

for the red part on the fin that could just be fin rot seeing as there are parts of his fin missing


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Do you use a dechlorinator? If so, what is it? Does it remove both chlorine and chloramines from your water?

Do you have access to Prime?

And, just to refresh my memory, what is your tank maintenance schedule?

Do the symptoms seem worse right after a water change?


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

its not fin rot...the red just stays at that point and doesnt progress....and doesnt rot start from the outside and work its way in?

any frayed fins are just nipping... also you have to remember that its the combination of red nose/mouth..red gills..not just the fins.

also rot would progress but this doesnt ...

the problem is consistent and doesnt really get better or worse with water changes.

the water comes from a deep well and i was assured that no chemicals have ever been added ...but lets run with the chlorine idea ...would chlorine cause these effects?


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I don't know if chlorine could cause that or not. Since you use well water do you *not* use a dechlorinator? I use well water too and know I don't have chlorine in my water but I still use dechlorinator that also helps/removes/neutralizes (does something for) heavy metals.

The mouth area almost looks like it could be from digging in the substrate but that doesn't explain the gill area :? .


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

well i was loking at some offerings that take chlorine out and as you say also remove other possibly harmfull elements.

at this stage i may well give that idea a trial and see what happens.


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