# Water change schedule?



## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Forgive me if this has been covered before. What is the general consensus here on water change amount and frequency? I added my new fish (10 juveniles 1-2 inches each ) to their tank Thursday. I'm going to do a water change this evening of maybe 20-30 gallons. Then again on Thursday. Then I will probably go to weekly changes. The tank is 75 gallons. Should 15-20 gallons per week be sufficient? I have 2 power filters running rated 30-60 gallons each and very few plants. I'd like to add some water sprite as the tank matures. Since the fish are peacocks, they shouldn't totally destroy them. 
Thanks.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would start with weekly 50% and then see if that is enough to keep nitrates at 10ppm after a water change.

Even if your nitrates never get above 10ppm I would change 50% weekly as a minimum. So 40 gallons weekly.

I usually change 75% since getting the stuff out is the hard part and easy enough to wait 5 more minutes for the extra gallons to drain/refill to give the fish cleaner water.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

That probably is enough for juveniles, but it won't stay that way. Get them on an aggressive schedule early on and they will grow fast and you'll already be used to it.

My tanks get 75-80% every week.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

dledinger said:


> That probably is enough for juveniles, but it won't stay that way. Get them on an aggressive schedule early on and they will grow fast and you'll already be used to it.
> 
> My tanks get 75-80% every week.


Wow, my water bill is going to go up. LOL. My daughter is home from college for the summer, so that's not going to help either. ; )


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

I bet your daughter will use a lot more than 225 gallons a month....or at least mine sure do!


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

dledinger said:


> I bet your daughter will use a lot more than 225 gallons a month....or at least mine sure do!


Yeah, you're probably right.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Also, I'm having an unsightly algae problem. I'm hoping it will decrease as the tank matures. I'm seeing a lot of brownish algae on the front glass and on things. I scrape the front glass and it comes right back. I have sandstone in there, so I may have high silicates, which contribute. Should I add a few Nerite snails to help with that? I don't know if peacocks will hunt them.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

I've also seen Malaysian trumpets suggested, and also bristle nose plecos...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

MTS are a problem for me they clog the filters. BN don't eat the brown algae for me. I'm surprised it's on the glass...usually it's just the rocks. Nerites are not bad with peacocks but also spend more time on the glass than on the décor.

You expect to scrape algae every week with water changes, right? the brown algae (diatoms) wipes right off and will go away after several months.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

DJRansome said:


> MTS are a problem for me they clog the filters. BN don't eat the brown algae for me. I'm surprised it's on the glass...usually it's just the rocks. Nerites are not bad with peacocks but also spend more time on the glass than on the décor.
> 
> You expect to scrape algae every week with water changes, right? the brown algae (diatoms) wipes right off and will go away after several months.


I'm not sure I want to add anything else just yet anyway. Guess I'll just keep scraping. It's definitely not the standard green algae on the front glass. It's a brownish color. I have the standard green stuff growing on my glass canopy where the water is constantly splashing and condensing under it. That's easy enough to wipe off during a water change, too.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Rubberlips eat brown algae...and they do it very quickly. I do not keep one in my African tanks because there's no wood (and I also like my fish to be from the same body of water). I have put them in on a temporary basis to clean house.


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## Janoch (May 15, 2016)

cmoorewv said:


> Also, I'm having an unsightly algae problem. I'm hoping it will decrease as the tank matures. I'm seeing a lot of brownish algae on the front glass and on things. I scrape the front glass and it comes right back. I have sandstone in there, so I may have high silicates, which contribute. Should I add a few Nerite snails to help with that? I don't know if peacocks will hunt them.


only fish I had success eating brown algae was the Chinese algae eater... wouldnt recommend them for a cichlid tank though. Previous response seems right, a lot of new tanks suffer through a brown algae bloom that kind of dissipates as the BB grow and the nutrients in the water column kind of stabilize. I did however recently have a bad brown algae outbreak in an established heavily planted tropical community. I eventually got it under wraps by limiting nutrients in the water column, relying more on ensuring a properly fertilized substrate rather then overdosing liquid ferts. Which for a heavily planted tank means more water changes but less gravel vacuuming as well as maintaining co2 levels. Last but not least however was limiting my photo period. Which is what I'd suggest for you, brown diatom algae is a photosynthesising algae=needs light to grow, I'd be curious to know what type of plants you have, what lighting your using/ how long lighting is on for and if you're dosing anything. Most algae problems I find can be corrected by tweaking these elements. As for water changes its hard to give a cookie cutter regimen for changes when there are different variables involved ex) people that over feed their fish will need to do more water changes, it is as simple as letting your tank guide you, test the water any time you can, if you notice your nitrate levels up change the water, if your not sure you did a big enough change test the water again. Eventually you'll notice a trend and you will lose your grip on the nitrate test and feel comfortable with a steady routine.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Rather than doing large water changes, I'm going to do smaller changes every few days as long as it doesn't stress the fish too much. 20 gallons or so every 3 days to start. It's too taxing on me to move mass quantities of water. It also looks as if one of my fish either is missing some scales or has a case of hexamita. It's appetite is still good, so I'm going to treat with melafix as a tonic and feed epsom salt soaked food. The rest of the fish seem perfectly healthy. I'm also going to keep the substrate vacuumed. If the fish in doubt gets worse, I'll proceed to metro in the food/water. I hate to go there too soon in case it's just skin damage from transport. I really haven't noticed any stringy poop.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

I'll increase aeration, too.


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

Keep this in mind.... say you start with two tanks with 20 nitrates each and have the same bio load/fish feeding schedule such that it raises 10ppm a day in both tanks. However in one of them you change the water 70% once a week and in the other you change 10% each day (NOTE: in a given week you will be changing the same amount of water). Here is what happens:

Day -- 70% tank -- 10% tank
0 -- 20 -- 20
1 -- 30 -- 27
2 -- 40 -- 33
3 -- 50 -- 39
4 -- 60 -- 44
5 -- 70 -- 48
6 -- 80 -- 53
7 -- 27 -- 57

So as you can see, neither case is sustainable because by the end of the week both tanks are dirtier than they started and will continue to get worse. However, the tank which only had one water change has only increased 7ppm while the tank you are messing with every day increased 37ppm. Finding a way to make larger water changes easier on you such that you can do them will be both beneficial for you and your fish.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Aaron S said:


> Keep this in mind.... say you start with two tanks with 20 nitrates each and have the same bio load/fish feeding schedule such that it raises 10ppm a day in both tanks. However in one of them you change the water 70% once a week and in the other you change 10% each day (NOTE: in a given week you will be changing the same amount of water). Here is what happens:
> 
> Day -- 70% tank -- 10% tank
> 0 -- 20 -- 20
> ...


What do you suggest I do while watching the possible disease situation? One large water change still or 25 percent water changes every couple days? I'm not certain what's going on. One fish has the small spot on top of the head near the eye and another one has white lips. So, I'm really not sure what it is. I know it's not ich, and it does not look like true fungus. They are all eating,and swimming quite happily. I posted my tank parameters on the illness forum and haven't gotten a response. Ammonia, nitrite 0, nitrates 0 with the API liquid kit. The strip measured 20-40 but I've heard theyre less accurate. PH is 7.6 and my hardness and alkalinity are in the moderate range. I'm really not sure what to make of it. They are lip locking a bit over food pellets so maybe that's what's wrong with the mouth. I'll try to take another picture tomorrow.


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

I have almost no skill at regaining a healthy tank once they get sick as only about 50% of my fish recover from an issue that is mild. Many meds you add which are more harsh than melafix will have instructions which include how often you can change the water. These are meant to ratchet the amount of meds in the water with time so you want to follow them when using something else. I am not sure that it is terribly important for melafix though. When fish are locking lips they will shred the flesh above the other one's lip which will almost certainly get a fungus just like if you got a cut and did nothing to keep junk out of the wound. If you were just dealing with that issue then melafix should work fine. Are you sure the fish are compatible with eachother? you may need to re-home one of the fighting fish.

So if you have 0 nitrates with the liquid kit then there is an issue. Your tank could not be cycled for one reason or another, you could have messed up the test (you did wait a few minutes to read the result right?), etc. If you really had no nitrates, I would be extremely surprised that you are growing algae.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Aaron S said:


> I have almost no skill at regaining a healthy tank once they get sick as only about 50% of my fish recover from an issue that is mild. Many meds you add which are more harsh than melafix will have instructions which include how often you can change the water. These are meant to ratchet the amount of meds in the water with time so you want to follow them when using something else. I am not sure that it is terribly important for melafix though. When fish are locking lips they will shred the flesh above the other one's lip which will almost certainly get a fungus just like if you got a cut and did nothing to keep junk out of the wound. If you were just dealing with that issue then melafix should work fine. Are you sure the fish are compatible with eachother? you may need to re-home one of the fighting fish.
> 
> So if you have 0 nitrates with the liquid kit then there is an issue. Your tank could not be cycled for one reason or another, you could have messed up the test (you did wait a few minutes to read the result right?), etc. If you really had no nitrates, I would be extremely surprised that you are growing algae.


Ok my mistake. I did use the nitrate bottle incorrectly. My nitrates are, indeed, high. So, should I dose with prime and do 50% water changes until its,down?


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Nitrates look closer to 80.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

50% daily until it reads 10ppm. Day1=40. Day2=20. Day3=10ppm.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

That will not be too drastic a change in chemistry?


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

I'm going to test my tap and see what that reads. I've never really had this issue before that I know of.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

cmoorewv said:


> That will not be too drastic a change in chemistry?


Not trying to contradict. There is just so much conflicting info. I've seen 15 and 30 % suggested too, but 10-15 seems too little. Especially in light of a previous post here. But high nitrates could explain the lip /skin issues too, could it not?


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

I just did a large water change. I'm going to dose with the Epsom salt soaked food one more day. But I think this may be more a water quality issue more than anything else. My tap water registered 0 nitrates, so there is no issue there. I will check nitrates in the tank again tonight. And reduce the amount they are being fed. The bio filter is doing its job as far as ammonia is concerned but I must have a big bioload.


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

lots of fish = lots of POOO! The algae is likely related to the high nitrates. Your suggestion of disease is likely not related to it.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

I'd love to get things nipped in the bud before they get out of control. They are tough little fish so far. I'm trying to do things right. Hopefully they survive me. It's a learning curve, for sure. They are a lot different than barbs and cory cats.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Aaron S said:


> Here is what happens:
> 
> Day -- 70% tank -- 10% tank
> 0 -- 20 -- 20
> ...


That's some good work, Aaron. I conceptualize this in my head, but I've never seen anyone do the math and put it in writing.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

cmoorewv said:


> That will not be too drastic a change in chemistry?


Here's my take, in a nutshell: If you go a long time and let nitrates get really high, dropping them in a single massive water change can be bad.

I very rarely get sick fish, but when I do it is my South American tank in the winter time. The silver dollars I have can't handle massive temp swings, so I sometimes slack off when the water gets cold. Predictably, the nitrates rise, I overcompensate trying to catch up and end up with illness. I think I had mouth rot the first 4 years out of 8 with these fish because of this. It was my screw up each time...sudden changes to their parameters led to illness.

Generally, if you have not kept up on water changes I'd recommend that you ramp up water changes over the course of a few days. However, there's rarely a reason to do less than 25% unless dealing with extremely sensitive fish, fry, etc.

On the other hand, fish accustomed to frequent and massive water changes do very well. They thrive and grow fast. When I raise fry in 20 longs I drain the tank to the glass bottom every day. About as close to 100% as you can get. This is in the summertime when water is 78 degrees out of the tap. In my other tanks I generally do 75-80% every week year round. Sometimes more often if I am bored.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I agree, but didn't this tank just start a few weeks ago? And nitrates should have been zero on day 1.

In any case, if there is any concern about the possibility that the fish have been in high nitrate water for a long time and have adjusted to it, then I agree. Do 30% today, 40% tomorrow, 50% next day etc until you are at 10ppm.

For fish other than Africans, you often see lower PWC recommendations. And of course, you have to match parameters (except nitrates) exactly with new water, which removes all stress problems, unless, as described above, you have old tank syndrome.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

I've had the tank cycling for a couple months, but I've only had the fish in there a short while, so their waste,plus their food must be adding a big bioload. I changed about 27 gallons last night and 28 tonight. I wanted to do a bit more but my knee is killing me after so many,r is up and down stairs. I really need to come up with an easier,way to cart the water. I need a utility sink downstairs near the tank. On the positive side, my arms are getting stronger.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Before I added the fish, I did check all parameters and they were all good. Unless I messed up the nitrate test. I did do a couple large water changes before adding fish. I did fishless cycling and the tank had a steady supply of ammonia, so nitrates were building all this time. 
Thanks for the help so far. I've had a lot if experience with barbs but africans are completely new to me.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

I have the nitrates down to 20-40 ppm, so I'm making progress. It's difficult to tell exactly what shade the test tube is. But it's a lot better than it was. One more change, maybe, and the tank should be in much better shape. The fish look a bit more active too.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Python and all your problems are over. Once down/up to start suction, once to switch from suction to fill and once to turn it off when finished. No buckets at all.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

I don't have a suitable faucet down there for a python. I need to have the dinky bathroom vanity changed over to a little utility sink. Things would be much easier. Did one more change today. The nitrates looked great this morning compared to before. Maybe 20 ppm. I changed another 25 gallons. It isn't so much the emptying that gets me. It's refilling. At least I'm getting exercise.


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## Roger That (Aug 12, 2015)

You can get a python hose up to 100' I believe. If not, you can get the hose at any length you need at most hardware stores and replace it with the hose that came with the Python. Carrying 5 gallon buckets up and down stairs is not a long term option.


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## Roger That (Aug 12, 2015)

Even if you have a dinky bathroom vanity to work with, they typically have a standard faucet. Does the faucet have a strainer cap or screen on the end of the faucet nozzle. If so, that's a cap that unscrews. The Python comes with all the adapters needed to connect the siphons picket to most all standard faucets. See if your dinky bathroom faucet has a cap that unscrews with a pair of pliers.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Roger That said:


> Even if you have a dinky bathroom vanity to work with, they typically have a standard faucet. Does the faucet have a strainer cap or screen on the end of the faucet nozzle. If so, that's a cap that unscrews. The Python comes with all the adapters needed to connect the siphons picket to most all standard faucets. See if your dinky bathroom faucet has a cap that unscrews with a pair of pliers.


I'm pretty sure it won't work. I'm leaning towards keeping a Rubbermaid trash can down there with heater and airstone and getting a pump for putting water in the tank. My husband is griping about that idea, but he isn't lugging all that water. I could fill it with a garden hose from a garage faucet. Seems like the most workable solution to me.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't know anyone who has not been able to get the Python to work. Don't give up.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Do you have a shower or washing machine in the basement?


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Deeda said:


> Do you have a shower or washing machine in the basement?


I have,a washing machine down there.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Why do you ask? I can't get back behind it to the hoses.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Some people have had success installing some Tee fittings off the hot and cold taps for the washing machine so they can use it for water changes in basement tanks though I think they also needed to install a temperature mixing valve so water changes temperatures can be controlled.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

I went to Home Depot today and picked up a 25 foot lead free hose, a faucet adapter, and a shut off valve. I guess I'll still have to siphon into buckets. Then I'll either run water through the hose over to the tank. I haven't decided whether to run straight into the tank while adding prime or to run it into my 5 gallon water jugs with prime. At least either way, I won't be hauling all the water up and down steps. That was killing my lower half. My ankles, knees, hips and lower back were all cussing me. I may try it out this evening. I need to siphon out some cooked broccoli they didn't care for.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

cmoorewv said:


> I went to Home Depot today and picked up a 25 foot lead free hose, a faucet adapter, and a shut off valve. I guess I'll still have to siphon into buckets. Then I'll either run water through the hose over to the tank. I haven't decided whether to run straight into the tank while adding prime or to run it into my 5 gallon water jugs with prime. At least either way, I won't be hauling all the water up and down steps. That was killing my lower half. My ankles, knees, hips and lower back were all cussing me. I may try it out this evening. I need to siphon out some cooked broccoli they didn't care for.


The hose set up worked pretty well. I ended up running the water straight to the tank. I was a bit nervous about that. I added prime as it filled and it seemed to be ok.


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## pjn36 (Apr 27, 2004)

You can use this "T" fitting in the below link to hook to your faucet and then hook the hose to it.
https://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-FILL-DR ... entries*=0
It is basically the same fitting that is on a python kit but cheaper. You can then use the hose to syphon out water from the tank and refill the tank.
No more buckets. Thank me later!
Adding Prime directly to the tank as it refills is fine.


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## Roger That (Aug 12, 2015)

I add Prime right before refilling......just make sure that you dose the Prime based on your entire tank volume. Example....if you do a 50% water change on a tank with 100 gallons of water, dose the Prime for 100 gallons. Then just refill the tank directly adding the new water.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Thanks


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