# Angel fish and and aggressive cichlids?



## Colubrid (May 9, 2016)

I seriously had to re-write this entire thing 3 times in a row because the submit button would lag and delete everything :x :x :x

I have a dempsey, a green terror, convict, and firemouth. They're all juveniles around 1-2 inches except for the dempsey who is 3 inches.

My question is can, these guys get along with a full grown angelfish and grow up to get along with it?


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

Possibly, since all of the other fish stay in the lower third of the tank and angelfish occupy the upper third. However, I wouldn't risk it. I keep my angelfish with 10" geophagus and they don't interact at all. Geophagus are much mellower fish.


----------



## Colubrid (May 9, 2016)

I've also heard it might work if their tank is big enough, but I still need people's opinions on this.


----------



## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

The bigger question is if all the other fish will get along.


----------



## Colubrid (May 9, 2016)

That's what I'm asking, lol. These fish get aggressive once they mature but they haven't matured yet. Will they get along with the adult angelfish as they grow along side it?


----------



## Riippasaarni1 (Jun 21, 2016)

mambee said:


> The bigger question is if all the other fish will get along.


True, all those fishes are territorial and living together from juvenile will not change that.


----------



## jamntoast3 (May 15, 2015)

You might even get lucky and have the aggressive fish fight amount themselves while the angel stays out of the way. Or the will all chase if constantly. It's a bit of a gamble


----------



## The Dude315 (May 19, 2015)

I'm not sure why I'm the only one to say this... but absolutely no way. There is absolutely no chance. Angelfish are not built to do normal cichlid battle... and you have some very aggressive cichlids... I've had Bolivian Rams pick on Angels.


----------



## Riippasaarni1 (Jun 21, 2016)

The Dude315 said:


> I'm not sure why I'm the only one to say this... but absolutely no way. There is absolutely no chance. Angelfish are not built to do normal cichlid battle... and you have some very aggressive cichlids... I've had Bolivian Rams pick on Angels.


Lack of ability to think? yes I know this is a little bit unpolite..However in the end of the day, these questions are like can I put a few inches long jaguar cichlid and a kissing gourami in same tank and will they are there happily ever after? Ofcourse not..


----------



## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

The Dude315 said:


> absolutely no way. There is absolutely no chance.


I disagree. IMO and IME, there is a fairly good chance that an angelfish will be ignored by aggressive cichlids, to a very large extent. Possibly because of their odd shape and because they are just not seen as a threat, IME, they often get a special consideration that other cichlids don't get. I've even had a group of angelfish hover above Oscars with eggs, and the Oscars made no attempt to clear them from their area, all the while trying to chase other cichlids away. My last angelfish even had their anal fin right inside the cave where convicts had eggs, and the convicts never made any attempt to clear them from their area!!
Done it many times, over and over, since the 1970's. First tried it because an angelfish was pretty much the only fish you could purchase from a pet shop that had sufficient girth not to end up as a feeder. When I very first started in the hobby, all I had was a 10 gal. for a grow up tank, so it was an advantage if a newly purchased fish could go strait into the 'big tank' with out ending up getting swallowed whole.
Here's a few short clips of my 180 gal. in 2010. Short clips, but do show how the angelfish are being treated at all times. All tank mates are very aggressive cichlids:
http://vid192.photobucket.com/albums/z116/Bern-C/058.mp4
http://vid192.photobucket.com/albums/z116/Bern-C/046.mp4
http://vid192.photobucket.com/albums/z116/Bern-C/050.mp4
Of course many variables will determine how well they do. Size of tank probably most important as well as number of tank mates. The angelfish have to be able to stay out of the way. If there is too many fish, too much chasing and commotion, it will be more then difficult for angelfish to stay out of the way. About a year after this video was shot, my 125 gal. sprung a fast leak and everything in that tank was put into the 180. The angelfish did very poorl;y with almost 30 cichlids in the tank, mostly mbuna, and I ended up giving the angelfish away to get them out of the tank.


----------



## Riippasaarni1 (Jun 21, 2016)

But there's the green terror, which I'm mostly worried about. In youtube are videos where they are attacking angels and people commenting owner of the aquarium to move them. Ofcourse there are angels are green terrors in same aquarium but none of those videos I found are about mature greenterrors. As a matter of fact it seemed that mature males with horn are usually kept with a female of with a very big cichlids.


----------



## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Riippasaarni1 said:


> But there's the green terror, which I'm mostly worried about.


So what, green terror? 
At least in comparison to many CA cichlids, it is not an especially aggressive cichlid.
Kept large male GT in the same tank with angelfish in the past.....and was just as indifferent towards the angelfish, as were any other cichlid in the tank.


Riippasaarni1 said:


> In youtube are videos where they are attacking angels and people commenting owner of the aquarium to move them.


can't base too much off of youtube :lol: 
1000 variables, particularily size of tank.
Also a video captures a very brief moment in time. 
you can find examples on youtube of aggression between just about any cichlid. Also, sometimes very poor conditions and poorly set up tanks ect., ect.
I once had a problem with a GT picking on an Oscar and had to remove the GT twice. Finally the Oscar stood up to it, and kicked its butt, and never had a problem with the GT after. Sure, sometimes a GT can be aggressive, but for it's size is usually not a very tough cichlid. IMO and IME, it's definitely not in the league of Black belt, RD/midas, festae, ect. in terms of aggression. Certainly not as aggressive as salvini and maybe not even the aggression of a male convict. Generalizing, of course.
I'm not saying an angelfish is some kind of sure thing. There is definite risk. No certainty in how things will end up working out. But I do take exception to saying "absolutely no way". I've done it many times with the same results.... general indifference, and even a special consideration where breeding cichlids don't even bother chasing it out of their exclusive area!!


----------



## Riippasaarni1 (Jun 21, 2016)

BC in SK said:


> Riippasaarni1 said:
> 
> 
> > But there's the green terror, which I'm mostly worried about.
> ...


It depends about that short moment.. after feeling sad, seeing jack dempsey eating alife a mouse on other clip and fish on one and then a frog on one.. I became very sure..not to take the risk. I thought green terror would be the most dangerous..but changed my mind. And yes I know that sometimes all goes well, but I just feel we should not take that risk. Since there is allways the risk. I know that even some predatory puffers are kept with other fishes and it could go well for a long time..until the puffer remembers it's a predator.


----------



## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

Riippasaarni1 said:


> It depends about that short moment.. after feeling sad, seeing jack dempsey eating alife a mouse on other clip and fish on one and then a frog on one.. I became very sure..not to take the risk. I thought green terror would be the most dangerous..but changed my mind. And yes I know that sometimes all goes well, but I just feel we should not take that risk. Since there is allways the risk.


IME, a JD has a good sized mouth and is fairly decent at catching fish. Anything with out sufficient girth stands a pretty good chance of getting swallowed. I've even had decent sized CAE and rainbow sharks swallowed by large JD. If your long but skinny, that doesn't help. It's a question of girth.
But really, I'm not sure why predation is being brought up. Has nothing to do with aggression. If there is risk, it's aggression, not predation!
As a small fish, one thing an angelfish has going for it, is that it has ALOT of girth. Can't be swallowed, so no attempt to be eaten is ever made. As mentioned previously, one of the reasons I even tried angelfish when I first started in the hobby in the early '70's, was because it was about the only fish you could purchase from a pet shop that already had sufficient girth not to end up as a feeder.


----------



## Riippasaarni1 (Jun 21, 2016)

Predation turned out when I realized that Jaguar cichlid does cath angelfish for food. On the other hand I couldn't figure out how much bigger jaws Jaguar cichlid has than JD? (It's usually true..that they won't even try if fish looks big enough..unlike some catfishes and puffers).


----------



## kingofangelfish (Nov 7, 2016)

Hey I also have a few angels i would like to join with my small tilapia ( 3.7in), my angelfish are 4 in long and 5 tall, will they get along?


----------



## jamntoast3 (May 15, 2015)

a jag is a much bigger fish than a jd, and very aggressive. they would never encounter an angelfish in the wild, they would eat smaller ones i'm sure but not a grown fish. i personally dont have experience with the other cichlids mentioned but i have kept my angelfish with a few different cichlids who can sometimes be aggressive the largest being my oscar. imo i would add a angel(s) to a tank like this and let them grow up, probably a few so there is more than one "target" just in case. i wouldnt however add an angel to a tank where a jd or a green terror had been living solo because they will see the tank as their territory and will prob try to kill it. it always come down to the individual, you might have mellow fish. they might become killers one day, you wont know why.


----------



## UB15 (Dec 11, 2014)

I put a large Angel in a 50 with a variety of Severum, convicts etc.. last week. I also have 6 large Danio's as Dither's and all is good so far. First sign of trouble and out she goes.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

UB15 said:


> I put a large Angel in a 50 with a variety of Severum, convicts etc.. last week. I also have 6 large Danio's as Dither's and all is good so far. First sign of trouble and out she goes.


50 gallon?

Need a way larger tank long term.


----------

