# Need help with Heckelii tankmates for 125...or 150



## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

I'm thinking of moving up to a 125 or 150 gal. from my current 75 and have plenty of stocking questions. I have 5 small - medium Heckelii that are finally starting to shape up and are beautiful. I have a small school of Colombian tetras and 1 Satanoperca daemon with them and that's it. So, what else do you suggest?
I am interested in Satanoperca Leucostica also, but this may be too many similar looking fish. Any ideas? Thanks!


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## notho2000 (Dec 8, 2012)

You might want to try a few of one other species of Geophagus such as altifrons, proximus, abalios, pindare, or sp. Red Headed Tapajos. They do best in groups of 4-6 and are a great compliment to heckelii and Satanoperca species. Another couple are G. brachybranchus and dicrozoster. Here are some pics.

altifrons


Red Head Tapajos


dicrozoster


brachybranchus


SA biotope


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Notho - Thanks for the suggestions. Great pics! What is the fish in the last pic above the Geos and below the Festivum - Uaru?. Do you think a tank this size can take 5 Heckelii, 2 Satanoperca, a group of 4-6 Geos and a good school of tetras? I suppose it depends on what Geos as their size varies quite a bit. 
I was also looking for something that would contrast these fish which all have similar coloration.


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## notho2000 (Dec 8, 2012)

Yes, the fish are Uaru amphiacanthoides. When these fish max out(for example heckelii ~8-10") a 150G would be quite crowded. Having said that if the tank is well filtered and a good water change regimen is in place, and you only added say, 2 or 3 geos, a 150G would suffice (a 180G even better, of course). Here another couple of shots of my crowded 180G SA biotope tank. It works for me and the fish. It's not as bad as it looks since the fish are crowding down to one end in anticipation of being fed.


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Beautiful tank! About how long did it take the Heckelii to reach that size? Mine are growing very slowly and are about 3" now. Just in the last couple months they seem to be getting bigger a little quicker but I have no idea how long to maturity. I kept a couple previously, but lost them when they were about 5-6".


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## notho2000 (Dec 8, 2012)

mdog said:


> Beautiful tank! About how long did it take the Heckelii to reach that size? Mine are growing very slowly and are about 3" now. Just in the last couple months they seem to be getting bigger a little quicker but I have no idea how long to maturity. I kept a couple previously, but lost them when they were about 5-6".


They were about 18 months at the time the pictures were taken. I found them to be quite slow growing as well ... much like geophagus.


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## Coriandre (Jan 30, 2014)

Notho,

What is the yellow fish with the 2 black bars hanging near the bottom on the second to last pictures ?
How do you manage to get such great fish in Winnipeg !?!


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## notho2000 (Dec 8, 2012)

Coriandre said:


> Notho,
> 
> What is the yellow fish with the 2 black bars hanging near the bottom on the second to last pictures ?
> How do you manage to get such great fish in Winnipeg !?!


It is a Guianacara geayi. I get most of my fish from Spencer Jack at aFISHionados.


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

It looks like I'll be getting the 125 shortly - a huge improvement from my 75! My idea for fish is: 5 Heckelii (I currently have them) 3 Satanoperca leucostica (I got rid of the one daemon I had) 3 or 4 Geos. of a smaller growing type and a school of Colombian tetras.
Can I have your thoughts please? I like the idea of keeping the Geos in larger groups than 3 or 4 but don't want to overcrowd when they all mature.
Speaking of mature - how common do you suppose it is for these fish to actually reach the sizes listed in literature? Thanks for your thoughts.


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Well, got the tank up and running this weekend. Took QUITE a while as I had the stand built and had to apply the finish and let it dry before doing the set up. I moved the fish over and they look very small. There's tons of room. So this is the plan:
5 Heckelii (existing)
3 Satanoperca leucosticta
4-5 Geophagus red head Tapajos
I realize they all grow but it's hard to imagine this tank crowded. If anything it will take a couple of years I assume. Should I be concerned or should I get the fish and watch them grow and move someone if it gets too crowded down the road? I'd love to hear any thoughts out there.


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## E82M6 (Feb 20, 2012)

I dont think your tank will be crowded at all. Post some pictures of your new setup.


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I'll take some pictures tonight and try to post. I think the stand came out very well and makes the whole set up look better. I was a little nervous filling the tank thinking about all that weight on the stand!


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Here are pictures. The water is not thoroughly cleared up yet and it's not a great camera (or photographer) but you get the idea.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Whoa! Very nice!


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## notho2000 (Dec 8, 2012)

It's coming together very nicely. :thumb:


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Thanks. The Satanoperca go in tomorrow. For this project, since it's in the living room and our house is not huge, it has to please everyone - not just the fish enthusiasts. I was concerned about the size of the tank and stand for this size room. But It fits in well and everyone thinks it looks great. 
I'm sure It will even look better as it gets stocked and everyone grows!


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

notho - do you have any shots of the whole tank where the fish in your photos live?


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

The Satanoperca are settling in well. They're beautiful fish. I'm having second thoughts on the Geophagus Tapajos that I was planning as it seems like the tank will have many similar fish at that point. 
Does anyone have any suggestions on another fish that might contrast a bit, but be good tankmates with with the Satanoperca and Heckelii? I like the idea of Severum but I want to keep my live plants and understand there's a good chance they'll eat them. I'd love to hear any thoughts and ideas. Thanks!


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Well, fish are doing well but I need a little more help. I don't think I'm going to get the Geophagus Red Head Tapajos because although they're really beautiful, I think they are too similar to the Heckelii and Satanoperca. I also do think that a group of them may make the tank look too crowded when they all mature. 
So I'm looking for a Cichlid that will look different or contrast what I have. I'm looking to keep between 1-3 of this and then the tank is full.
Currently:
4 Heckelii
3 Satanoperca Leucosticta
7 Congo tetra (I got some really beautiful "Orange Flash Congo Tetra" and Yellow Tail Congo Tetra
1 - 3 ??
I like the idea of a Severum for contrast but I've read they eat plants and I'm growing live plants. 
So what do you think? Any thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated!


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## oTheBeardedFiish (Oct 29, 2013)

Festivum? I think they would contrast nicely with the current stock, as well as they occupy a different area in the tank.


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Thanks for the reply. I think Festivum is a great idea - I've been thinking of them also. I've seen some pictures of adults that look almost yellow along the upper half but I've only seen fish that are silver with the black bar. Does anyone know if these can become yellowish?
I've also been wondering about Uaru in this tank. I like the addition of a fish with dark coloration and I think they're beautiful. 
I've read mixed opinions about keeping them in a planted tank.


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## oTheBeardedFiish (Oct 29, 2013)

Unfortunately i cant directly answer your question but i can offer some first hand knowledge. When I first bought my festivum it was around 2.5 to 3 inches. For whatever reason the fish was a dull silverish white with a hint of green. After being in my tank for awhile and putting on another inch it is now a brilliant spangled green. As for the yellow coloring i know that there a few different species that fall under the common name festivum. Im not sure which fish develops what coloring but i do know that you can tell the difference between each species of festivum by inspecting the vertical bars present when the fish is stressed. So basically yes the fish you have seen CAN develop the yellow coloring it just depends what species they are. Hopefully someone else chimes in to clear that all up and to help answer your question pertaining to the uaru.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I had Festivum with my Geo's and I wasn't really impressed. They didn't seem to stand out as much and had too similar an appearance. I took them out.

Severums would be my vote. A nice Rotkeil severum with the deep reds and dark colors would contrast well with the Geo's. Severums (like Festivum) also tend to stay higher in the water column than Geo's too.

Andy


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Thanks for the replies and great information. I also like the Rotkeil Severum idea. I kept one a few years ago but it was a nasty one for the situation, so I traded it back. I'd like to try again but was concerned about the live plants. Maybe give it a shot and feed enough so they're not too interested in the plants? 
Would you recommend keeping a single in this situation?


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I would say keep several to spread aggression around.

As far as the live plants you may have issues. Severums are herbivores by nature and they will likely gobble them up. Not a problem with Festivums though.

You may also want to consider Keyhole cichlids as an alternative too. Not quite as colorful but different from Eartheaters.


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

I really want to keep my plants so maybe no on the Severum. I've seen Keyholes available. I kind of like them but still want some darker colors in there. Hmmm....still thinking there must be some other good options that people have tried?


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## hungvanvo (Apr 9, 2014)

Very nice set up. As you have Hecelli so they should get along with all Geo family. ( Altifron, Balzanii, Winemilleri, Red head Tapajos and Rio Olimar ) I have one 240 gal tank and they all get along with each other.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

THAT... is a lot of fish


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## hungvanvo (Apr 9, 2014)

this is grow tank and it is only one batch of my Red head Tapajos another 2 small group Geo.


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## mdog (Dec 10, 2002)

Wow!! Quite a collection. You must do a lot of water changes with that many fish.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

It's a nice looking collection of fish but some of those Heckelli are noticeably deformed. They could be called "Balloon Heckelli".


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## hungvanvo (Apr 9, 2014)

I do wc every 2 or 3 days. The Heckelli is not deformed they just eat too much and that what they look like hahah. they will move their own tank very soon for breed .


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

> The Heckelli is not deformed they just eat too much and that what they look like hahah.


Sorry but that is BS. You can clearly see both deformed and undeformed fish in the tank. At the :20 mark in the video there is actually a deformed "Balloon Heckelli" right below a more normal shaped Heckelli in the upper right corner.

I do believe that you have some overweight fish in there as you can see how thick some of them are (much more than they should be normally) but an overweight fish does not get taller and shorter.

Heckelli are not easy fish to breed and I wish you luck on breeding them but I would suggest culling out all the deformed fish before you start an attempt at breeding. You don't want to breed deformed fish just in case it is caused by poor genetics.

Andy


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