# Tank cycling issue.



## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

I bought a new 10 gallon package from Pet Smart to set up a hospital tank while I work on my new 90 gallon project.
I printed out Tim Craig's instructions for fish-less cycling. It all seemed pretty straightforward but after 15 days the ammonia is still at 2 ppm.
Should I just be patient and give it more time?


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

I'm not familiar with his instructions. What all have you added to the water so far? Did you start out with a higher ammonia concentration?


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

I added 20 drops of ammonia in the beginning per the instructions. That gave me 4 ppm for about five days then it dropped to 2 ppm.
I'm wondering if the ammonia level was too high and that's slowed down the process?


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## Mystery57 (Mar 2, 2015)

do a bigger water change eg 50%, then add sufficient ammonia to bring it back up to 2ppm


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Mystery57 said:


> do a bigger water change eg 50%, then add sufficient ammonia to bring it back up to 2ppm


Tim wrote the fishless cycling article here at CF.
Why the water change if it's still at 2ppm? Just leave it as is. 
What's your pH?


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

Did you add a bacteria supplement or media from a mature tank?

I've read through Tim's article before. I prefer this article; it's easier to follow, and I've cycled multiple tanks this way.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... ycling.php


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

I haven't added anything but for the ammonia.
This is the 16th day in a row that I've tested it and the results have remained very consistent.

They are:
Ammoina: 2 ppm
PH: 8.2 - 8.4
KH: 8
GH: 11

Tonight I will read the other article The Cichlid Guy is recommending.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

Whoa!

The method I've been using has you add ammonia just one time until the level drops to zero (7-10 days).

The method by Jay Luto has you add enough ammonia to get to 5 ppm THEN add that same amount daily until the nitrite spike.

Those are quite different.

Am I reading these correctly?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Levels exceeding 5ppm ammonia can prolong the cycling process, so no, I wouldn't dose further. Same goes with nitrite levels which is why small water changes are recommended when exceeding these levels.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

Totally confused now.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

lol, just stick to 2-3ppm overall. Try a bottle of Tetra Safe Start if you can find some locally.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

But it's been 17 days now so obviously I'm doing something wrong.

And how could Jay's method call for going right to 5 ppm and then add the same amount of ammonia DAILY?
Wouldn't that drive the level right off the chart?


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

Sorry to confuse you.  I usually aim for 4ppm, but 2-3ppm should do the trick. The important thing to focus on is the amount of ammonia in the water (ppm), not the amount of drops you need to add.

The only problem I see with what you've done so far is that you haven't added a source of bacteria, so there's nothing to process the ammonia you've added. If you have access to another tank, some media/substrate or even a bottled bacteria product like Dr. Tim's/Seachem Stability/Tetra Safe Start should jump-start your cycle.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

Okay you guy! You're freaking me out here!!!
LOL
I've been following Tim Craig's directions and nowhere did he mention adding a bacteria source. NO WONDER I've been watching this little ten gallon tank for almost THREE weeks now! hahahaha..........
Here's what he says:

*Here is a quick summary of steps.
• Work out your formula for your initial ammonia dose and add that to the aquarium.
• Test for ammonia every 24 hours until you get a reading of zero.
• Add ammonia every other day while testing for nitrite. Do small partial water changes.
• When the nitrite test reads zero, do a series of small, partial water changes to bring nitrate down.
• Add the last dose of ammonia 48 hours before adding fish.
It is no more complicated than that.*

I stopped at Pet Smart on the way home tonight and bought some Seachem.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The bacteria appear like magic...really you don't need bottled bacteria. If you decide you want it anyway I'd use Dr. Tim's.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

DJRansome said:


> The bacteria appear like magic...really you don't need bottled bacteria. If you decide you want it anyway I'd use Dr. Tim's.


That's how I THOUGHT it worked but why isn't it working for me?


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## cbsmith (Feb 17, 2015)

What temperature do you have the tank at?


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I tend to skip the process by moving an established filter right into a new aquarium. But if everything has to be new or scrubbed "sterile", then I would look for a good source of bacteria to seed my new setup.

I'm inclined to think that the best source of bacteria for the nitrification process is the crud from a healthy filter's media. 
Second best may be live aquatic plants that have been growing in an aquarium with fish. 
Then comes adding some gravel or decor from an established tank.

Finally waiting for some bacteria to drop in from the sky, or using a bottled product that claims to hold live bacteria.

Too much ammonia will halt the process. Way too much may even kill the needed bacteria. Story. Sometimes we need to think outside the glass box. A friend was retiring. He started to set up a huge aquarium at home, but the combination of retirement paperwork and becoming a full time entrepreneur paused the aquarium project just at the point where it was ready to be filled with water. It was that way for a while. Finally the tank was filled, the filters started, and he waited. Then he tested the ammonia. It was high. He was surprised it was so high, but he waited for it to go down and it didn't budge. It stayed this way so long he was puzzled. His teenage son listened to him one day talking about this mystery and said, Dad, I am no aquarium expert, but I think that three months of our cats peeing in that aquarium gravel is the source of your mystery ammonia.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

I raised the temperature to the low 80's.

That's pretty funny cat story!


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

After TWENTY days I've got ZERO ammonia and a WHOLE BUNCH of nitrite!
Yippee! It really IS working!

And I never did use the Seachem. I figured I had the time so I'd just go with the "natural way" and see what happened.

LOL


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Raising the temperature was a significant change. It is easy to not give temperature a thought when the topic is biofiltration. I think we sometimes assume since we are talking tropical tanks here we don't have to consider temperature and its effect on nitrification (the cycle).

Up to a point, beyond our normal parameters, the warmer it is, the faster these bacteria can operate. And the cooler it is, the slower they go. In cold water systems, this become really significant and a system of heat exchangers has to warm up the intake water from the cold water tank while re-chilling the return water. The biological filter has to be relatively warm compared to the cold aquarium, or the alternative would be to build a biological filter many times larger.


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

I've found raising the temperature to the mid 80s and lowering the water level a few inches (or adding some other source of oxygenation) helps to speed up the process significantly. Glad to hear you've made progress! :thumb:


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

After spending ALL that time watching for the ammonia level to drop I figured I was in for another long haul with the nitrites. But no, the nitrites dropped to zero after just 4 days of daily water changes and adding ammonia every other day.
Wow, I wasn't expecting that! So now I've got 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 5 nitrates. I guess I can call it cycled! Yippee!
So what's the best way to maintain the tank without any fish?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

How long is the wait for fish? If it's only a couple weeks no need to do anything. If it's months dose with ammonia every two days.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

I planned for it to be a hospital tank so there are no immediate plans of putting fish in it.
I'm assuming I would I use the same ammonia dose I used while testing for nitrites?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes.


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## KiefKommando (Mar 17, 2015)

Glad the temp change helped! I have also found that surface agitation will greatly speed the process up. I was cycling a fresh "out of the box" 75 gallon and approached a similar stall to yours. I added a circulation pump to churn up the surface and oxygenate the water and all of a sudden the cycle started kicking into high gear.


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