# Mbuna will not leave bottom of tank & breathing heavy?



## GaFishMan1181

Last friday i bought some Perlmutt juvies. I have 10 of them and they are around 1" - 1 1/2". One fish has been acting strange since i got them. It stays at the bottom of the tank with its belly touching the glass. It is also breathing very heavy.

Tank has a filter from another established tank so that is not a problem. Even tested water parameters this morning to see if my filter wasnt supporting their bio load.

What do yall think is wrong? Does this sound like something that could spread to my other fish. Every other fish is happy as can be. Also this fish hasnt ate in the last 2 days. She ate a little the first day but not since then.


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## GeriJo

Try adding an aerator to the tank. If they were not acclimated properly this may help. At the very least it will ease his breathing and buy you time to notice other symptoms.


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## GaFishMan1181

I did acclimate them a little quicker than normal because i had to leave for work. I'll have to go buy something to aerate the tank. All my filters are used up and i dont have any pumps or airstones but i will give it shot.


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## GeriJo

If you can, put him in a breeder net or basket so he is closer to the air surface while you go to the store. The oxygen levels are slightly higher there.


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## GaFishMan1181

Fish died a couple days back before i could help it. Still not sure why.


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## triscuit

Sometimes fish can't overcome the acclimation stress.  It's not unusual to lose a fish or two out of a group, given the temperature and water quality shifts, territory disruption, physical handling, and otherwise turning their physical and chemical worlds upside down.

I hope your other 9 are doing well...


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## GaFishMan1181

The rest of them all look good and are doing great!


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## GaFishMan1181

I spoke to soon. Another fish this morning was acting like the one that just died. It just sits on the bottom breathing heavy. I put it in a net up at the top but if it is anything like last time it will be dead when i get home.

What is going on?

This is my 6th or 7th time receiving mail order fish and i have never had this problem before.

Anyone?


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## triscuit

I've had certain bags go bad from mail orders- my bad luck is always with calvus.

Prior to getting sick, did fish #2 eat/poop and or look well?

Let's go through your water chemistry just to make sure everything is okay. What did you test for and what were the values?

Since fish #1 stopped eating, I wonder if there's a food or intestinal issue. That said, I recommend stop feeding everybody until we can narrow down some of the issues. You fish will be perfectly fine for a long time without food, so a few days won't hurt. For right now, add 1 Tablespoon dissolved Epsom salt for every 5 gallons of water (split that into two doses, several hours apart).


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## GaFishMan1181

Fish #2 looked fine yesterday. He was swimming around and going after the food.

I tested the water chemistry when the first fish was acting weird and i had zero nitrite and ammonia and the nitrate was just starting to register. The 20g L tank was started with a sponge and a bag of cermanic spheres that came from a well established 55g tank.

After the first fish died i did a water change (about 50-60%).

This morning i noticed the new fish before leaving for work. I didnt have much time before i had to go so i tested just the ammonia and nitrite (since they are the quickest). Both ammonia and nitrite was at zero (API master kit).

I'll stop feeding the fish. Thinking back i did see one fish kind of eating the food and then spitting it out and then trying to eat it again. I didnt think much of it because only one fish was doing this and i only saw it for like 10 seconds. I dont think it was the one that died or the sick one.

I have some aquarium salt that i will add to the tank when i get home. Also i will do another water change and check ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate again.


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## triscuit

Nope- not aquarium salt. Epsom salt. You can find it at any pharmacy, walmart, etc.

MgSO4 works as a laxative, which if we're looking at anything intestinal we want to get the fish cleaned out.

If you already added the aquarium salt, do a water change, and then add half of the Epsom in, then the same thing tomorrow.

The next thing to look for is metronidazole- that's my go-to medicine for many different parasites and infections. I use Fishzole- you can find it really cheap on Amazon if your LFS doesn't have any.

Just another thought: what is the pH and hardness of your water? If it's very different from what the fish were used to, it could cause acclimation issues.


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## GaFishMan1181

Fish #2 was dead when i got home on friday. Very similar time frame to the first fish. They seem to die about 8-10 hours after i see them struggling for air at the bottom of the tank.

I couldnt find my aquarium salt the other day so i didnt add any. Good thing. Today is the first day i could read your reply so i will go buy some epsom salt as soon as i can.

I will also go look for the metronidazole tommorow when i go into town.

My API kit says my ph is somewhere between the 8.0 and 8.2. I dont know my water hardness. Never tested for it before. I have bought fish from this same vendor before with no problems.

As of today one more fish is showing the same symptoms (staying at the bottom and very heavy breathing).


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## triscuit

Yep- stop feeding and start treating with metro. Do not get metro-dosed food. It won't help here. If you can't get metro, go for praziquantel until you can order FishZole or the like online.

We're looking for a broad-based biocide that can help with internal parasites/infections.

Make sure you feed nothing until you get things under control.


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## GeriJo

Where did you order them from? There is a bad case of round worms coming out of fish from Louisville lately. If it is round worms it can only be treated with fenbendazole.


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## GaFishMan1181

The third fish died. No others are showing symptoms as of this morning.

@triscuit- I'm going in town tonight to look for the metro. Theres two places i can go check so hopefully one will have something. Thanks for all your help so far.

@gerijo- We cant really talk specific places and i dont want to give this place a bad name but it wasnt in Louisville.


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## GeriJo

Which is exactly why I didn't provide a specific name of a company/dealer... simply the city. lol

8)


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## GaFishMan1181

The only thing i could find is something that had 250mg of metro and 75mg of praziquantel. So i bought that. I also bought the epsom salt. Not sure if i was suppose to do both treatments but i did. I did the epsom salt (once around 6pm, once around 8pm) and then i used the metro/prazi. I have to add another dose of the medication in 48 hours. Then 48 hours longer do a water change.

Sound good?

I hope this works because this morning i saw another fish showing the symptoms. Sad thing is the best looking fist in my group are the ones dieing. I bought 10 to get a nice breeding group out of but the fish with the best barring are dead.

I wonder if i should email the vendor. I know i will not get money back obviously and they could also say it was my fault but i wonder if they are having some perlmutts die off too. Most likely
they wouldnt tell me if they were.


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## GaFishMan1181

4th fish has died. All but one of the others look ok.

The medication said to do a water change today so i will do that. Fish havent had any food in like seven days so i will feed them today.

Guess i am just going to do let it roll from here on at. Hope for the best and maybe some will survive.


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## GaFishMan1181

All my fish seem to be good now :thumb: . I have six left which isnt too bad i guess. Lost 40% of the order. I still have some nice looking fish to make a breeding group with but would of like more fish to choose from to pick the best of them.

@triscuit - Thanks for the recommendation of epsom salt and the metro. Seemed to do the trick.


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