# Cynotilapia "Jalo Reef" Behavior Questions



## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

I have a 29 gallon tank with Cynotilapia afra "Jalo Reef" in it. I just added them *yesterday* so they are completely new fish to me. They are displaying some odd behavior that I would love to have explained to me.

I have 1 male and 3 females. When I put them in the tank all 3 females looked exactly the same with a minor difference in size... all about 1.75" to 2". The bodies of the females are a blueish color, with almost imperceptible vertical stripes, and yellow dorsals. Pretty much just like the profile shows for a female:










The male is similar looking, but is mostly a translucent gold/orange/brown color.. i.e. he has no coloring yet.

Here are some not so great pics of the fish:



















Since they're right next to me I look at them ALL the time.. and this morning I noticed that one of the females, the smallest one actually, had pretty dark stripes showing! Except for the fact that her colors are all muted she resembled a Kenyi female (which she is most definitely not, I've seen the parents of these guys). Even now, while writing this post, she swims near the male and right before my eyes I see the bars appear and disappear like magic! I did not realize they could just turn that stuff on and off. The male is also starting to do this.. stripes, no stripes... and he's been paying a bit more attention to this female and has done an odd things where he opens his mouth all the way like he's gulping in water and flares all his fins at once.. then immediately goes back about his business.

Twice now I have witnessed the female get near the male and kind of tip over on her side and shudder a little.. then swim off.

So my questions.. whats with the stripes coming and going at will??

Whats up with the sideways swimming and the odd gulping flaring thing?? Is this the beginning of hanky panky??


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## IanR29 (Dec 13, 2012)

These cichlids can turn their color on and off at will. More brightly when excited but it sounds like they are starting to mature. Not quit there yet but its nothing uncommon. Just sit back and enjoy. They are still babies at 2".


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## amcvettec (May 11, 2012)

Are you sure the male is C. afra Jalo Reef? My male was never an all golden brown. When I bought mine as juveniles, all looked the same. Eventually the male started to turn to a brighter blue and his bars darkened and thickened to black. The 2nd picture with the one you have labeled as male does not look Jalo Reef to me. It seems to have too much barring as well. I'm concerned that you have some sort of hybrid.

Did you vent to determine male and female - they might be too you to tell right now. It sounds like what you think is a female male actually be a male.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

I agree that the one you point to as a male definitely does not look like a Jalo Reef at all, way too orange IMO. I have an F1 group and have grown out hundreds of fry/juveniles from them, and they have never looked like that. They usually start out as a dull gray/blue with yellow highlighted dorsals. Any potential males usually started to show nice blue/black bar coloring at 1" to 1-1/2".


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Not at all what I wanted to hear... but, perhaps I'm just confused and have my species backwards? I also have 5 3/4" to 1" Lion's cove in there.. perhaps I have my species backwards?

Could the large ones actually be the Cynotilapia "Lion's Cove" instead?


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

AaronB said:


> Not at all what I wanted to hear... but, perhaps I'm just confused and have my species backwards? I also have 5 3/4" to 1" Lion's cove in there.. perhaps I have my species backwards?
> 
> Could the large ones actually be the Cynotilapia "Lion's Cove" instead?


Don't look like Lions Cove either. They are a silverfish color as fry.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The behavior could be either aggression or practice spawning or both. The mouth thing is a prelude to lip locking to fight with another fish. Both genders do this.

The tipping over and shuddering is done when spawning (although in spawning this would be the male). But this behavior is also used for aggression and both genders do this.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Well doesn't that just make things more confusing... The parent's of these fish were there, in a tank... the parents of both... and they were definitely Lions Cove and Jalo Reef... it just wouldn't make sense to not only have the species confused but also have them be completely the wrong species. By silverfish color as fry.. define fry.. they're 2".. that's half their adult size or more.. is that still considered fry??


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

It's very frustrating that there isn't a good resource for seeing the various species in their different states as they grow up. It would certainly make things easier.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

DrgRcr said:


> I agree that the one you point to as a male definitely does not look like a Jalo Reef at all, way too orange IMO. I have an F1 group and have grown out hundreds of fry/juveniles from them, and they have never looked like that. They usually start out as a dull gray/blue with yellow highlighted dorsals. Any potential males usually started to show nice blue/black bar coloring at 1" to 1-1/2".


After reviewing the photos I would have to agree about the orange.. and it's the photo, not the fish. He's really more of a pale shimmering gold.. not yellow, gold...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Unfortunately as juveniles a lot of fish look alike and there is also variability within a species. The pictures might not help as much as experts with lots of experience who can detect subtle shape variations etc.

Post pics in the Unidentified forum and see what you get.

Were the adults in the same tank? Any possibility they cross bred?


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

amcvettec said:


> Are you sure the male is C. afra Jalo Reef? My male was never an all golden brown. When I bought mine as juveniles, all looked the same. Eventually the male started to turn to a brighter blue and his bars darkened and thickened to black. The 2nd picture with the one you have labeled as male does not look Jalo Reef to me. It seems to have too much barring as well. I'm concerned that you have some sort of hybrid.
> 
> Did you vent to determine male and female - they might be too you to tell right now. It sounds like what you think is a female male actually be a male.


The store owner vented them for me... he seemed to know what he was doing.. with a store named <vendor name removed> I would hope so. It would be even more odd to receive 3 males and 1 female. The females are hanging together for the most part while the male is doing his thing.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

DJRansome said:


> Unfortunately as juveniles a lot of fish look alike and there is also variability within a species. The pictures might not help as much as experts with lots of experience who can detect subtle shape variations etc.
> 
> Post pics in the Unidentified forum and see what you get.
> 
> Were the adults in the same tank? Any possibility they cross bred?


They were not in the same tank... the fry had been removed to another tank to grow. I suppose it's possible that the adults could have been in a tank where they cross bred, but that would be slightly underhanded.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Agree it may not be possible to vent 1" fish with accuracy.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

I didn't intend to have a Fish ID thread. I'll just give them some time to color up and see what happens.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Is this a grow out tank, I hope?

Not large enough for two groups of Cynotilapia, and a super large risk for crossbreeding for those that survive the tank size.

I would question the venting of the fish. Males and females both establish dominance - there's always a dominant female in the group, and this behavior is normal in a new tank, but I never trust venting in a LFS.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Yes, it's a grow out tank. Now I'm totally questioning what I have in the tank. I look and look for photos, and to ME they look like the photos, but in the end if they aren't what I paid for I'll return them to him as young identifiable adults and either exchange for others I initially wanted or... or see if I can get a refund. And I think in the future I'm only going to order from reputable online sources.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Went back to the store.. was very disappointed.

The tank was labeled as: Red Top Afra - "Jalo". Way to go LFS! Making up names as they go.

I was able to snap a few really bad photos of a full grown Male in another tank... doesn't really strike me as a Jalo Reef at all, more like a Hongi or something.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

More than likely is Red Top Chimate..

Could be Likoma but they are darker typically...

Either way - you will never know with 100% certainty what the collection point is. It does "appear" to be a afra though.. Could very well be a cross from multiple collection points..


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

So.. the answer to this fish, now that he's grown up and I talked to the owner that sold him to me, is Metriaclima greshakei, or as they call them, Red Top Ice Blue Zebras. As a young adult, and with a young adult female (and also a full grown female now), it is much easier to see that indeed it is greshakei.


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## INEZ (May 9, 2013)

Still in the same tank?


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

What still in the same tank as what?


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## INEZ (May 9, 2013)

Sorry.. Met. Greshakei in a 29 gallon


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Nonono... they moved to a 60g awhile ago. I switched out the extra males for 2 females yesterday and all is well.


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## INEZ (May 9, 2013)

Ok.. Cool..


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

You guys be the judge:

From the Profile for Metriaclima greshakei:

























From my tank:


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

It does look like M. Greshakei.

I'm assuming then your LFS sold you a completely different species than the one you wanted. 
Or did you just not do a good job reading the labels on the tank at the store?
Did they not try and help you out by switching out the Metriaclima for a Cynotilapia? I know I would have been fairly upset had that happened to me.
Either way your Metriaclima looks nice and if in the end that makes you happy then that's all that matters.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

master chi said:


> It does look like M. Greshakei.
> 
> I'm assuming then your LFS sold you a completely different species than the one you wanted.
> Or did you just not do a good job reading the labels on the tank at the store?
> ...


The LFS is a joke. Fish up front, weed in the back. I totally did not get what I wanted... but I am attached to the little guy now so his genes are less important. I have some females for him that I believe are what he said they are... either way, he and any fry that are created will stay with me and I'm not dong business with them anymore.

As far as who was at fault... both he and I are. I didn't know what I was doing when I went in there, and he is still there, not knowing what he is doing.

"See there? Those spots indicate a male." - So not true. 
"You're looking for Cyno Jalo Reef? I have those right here. Red Top Afra 'Jalo' is what we call them." - So not true. a greshakei is not a Cynotilapia.

ALL they use is Trade Names.. no species/collection points.

I could go on and on. I think he fancies himself an expert... just heard a radio advertisement for them the other day. Their shop is on a street called "Illinois". 3 times he pronouced it "Illin-Noise". Noise.

I'll get a review put in the review section shortly so maybe this doesn't happen to others.


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## INEZ (May 9, 2013)

AaronB said:


> master chi said:
> 
> 
> > It does look like M. Greshakei.
> ...


The unfortunate reality is the public at large doesn't really care about the specifics.

See pretty fish. Buy pretty fish.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

On a better note... I really like the rocks in your tank. I have a tons in my yard that look very similar,but I only have a few in one of my tanks.


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## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

master chi said:


> On a better note... I really like the rocks in your tank. I have a tons in my yard that look very similar,but I only have a few in one of my tanks.


Thanks. My Aunt built a house in the area a few years ago and when they dug the foundation they had to remove a TON of basalt. She let me grab whatever I needed from the pile.


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