# Growout Midas



## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

Here is an interesting batch of 2-2.5" Midas I got from Ken 'fishfarm' Davis. 3 of them are kind of yellow-orange color with black splotches :









and the other three are kind of generic SA/CA juvie coloration, greenish with black spots, and sometimes black bars when frightened or fighting:









Here is one changing from the generic color over to the orange/black, started about a week after I got them:









They are growing out in a 75. Should be interesting to see how they turn out. I plan on keeping the one or two I like the best and sell the others off to my LFS. I'm really hoping for a nice example of a yellowish/whitish morph, relatively clean with few splotches...

Eric


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Hey let me know when you want to get rid of the extras I wanted to order from Ken but if you have some in the State I would love to pick up the extras from you. PM me when your ready and let me know what you want for them.


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## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

Chrispy,

I would love to sell you some, but Ken's prices are so dang reasonable I'm not sure if it would be worth your gas all the way down to Tucson. I got the 6 Midas for $5 each = $30, and USPS 2nd day shipping was only $12! Total cost for some cool fish was $42.00 :dancing:

All that said, they will be grown out to a bigger size than you could get from Ken, probably in the 4 to 5 inch range. I'll PM you when the time comes and give you first crack at them. A beverage of your choice is on me if you drive down.

Ken Davis is highly recommended.

Eric


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Well let me know when the time comes and we will see if we can figure something out. I come down that way occasionally.


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## Bluekiller82 (Nov 16, 2006)

Very Nice. I was planning on purchasing some from him as well. 
Do you know which ones you got, I know he had some F1 Midas and then some he got from a breeder.

Keep us Updated!!


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## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

These were the ones that were just advertised as Citrinellum, not the F1s. Should be interesting to see what colors develop. I can see the orange/black ones changing almost daily, losing more and more of the black. Ken says this strain keeps changing up to about the 8" to 10" range.

I'll try to post some progress pics at various stages.


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Very nice fish!!   Love the colors. Who ever gets your "left overs" is one lucky person 8). I'll be checking back in to see up dated pics opcorn:


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## Bluekiller82 (Nov 16, 2006)

Have you had any problems with them fighting yet in the 75?

I also planned on getting a few and growing them out in a 90, I kinda want a white one but I wont know till they grow.


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

Nice new acquisitions you got there, Eric.
I'll be looking forward to seeing updates on them as well. :thumb:

BV


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## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

Time for an update: Well, everybody is now about 4" TL, with the largest, most dominant 2 fish about 1/4" longer and thicker than the others. Some interesting developments in the last several days --

This fish, one of the olive/tan/grey with dark vertical barring and dark mid-flank and caudal spots, was ruling the whole tank and claiming half of it for its own. I was assuming it was a male due to the hyper-aggressive behavior:









It is now our summer monsoon rainy season here in the Sonoran Desert in southern Arizona, and the changes in the weather seem to have stimulated some mating type behavior already in the above fish and this fellow (nicknamed "Notch", for missing dorsal ray). "Notch" has developed the beginnings of a nuchal hump in the last several days and started displaying for, and hanging out with, the other dominant fish (who I now think might be female):

















Note the difference in appearance of this more gracile, less dominant fish of the same morph, presumably a brother or sister:









They are clearing away gravel and sort of "playing house" in the cheesy hollow stump decoration: 

















I'm not sure if they are for real or just practicing breeding behavior as some young critters will do with whoever will tolerate it.

Submissive fish in their half of tank:









Dominant/"breeding" two keeping the submissive half of the tank in order:









Another interesting note is that all the fish, but especially the newly formed couple, have pale blue "egg spots" (similar to mbuna) on the aft parts of their fins. Is this typical? I've only had a snow white/blood red (not orange) morph as a juvi before.

"Notch" was one of the fish I was planning to sell off, due to his cosmetic flaw, but I am now admiring that classic male Midas chunky, blunt-faced profile he is developing (as distinct from the more Red Devil looking pointy face, which I don't care for). Guess he might be a keeper after all.

Sorry to blab on, but man this is really cool. I haven't raised a group of same species juvies before, and it is really fascinating and fun.

Cheers,
Eric


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## convictkid (Jul 28, 2004)

WHat do you use for your black background?


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## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

Bluekiller82 said:


> Have you had any problems with them fighting yet in the 75?
> 
> I also planned on getting a few and growing them out in a 90, I kinda want a white one but I wont know till they grow.


Sorry, missed this question - no problems to date. Just normal pecking order type stuff, nothing beyond minor fin damage. PetSmart used to carry a nice snow white with blood red markings strain, haven't seen it lately though. I will trade some out as they approach the 5-6" mark, these guys are growing like weeds.

A 90 should be fine for growing out 4-6 IMO, as long as you have a plan for thinning the herd as they grow, so you are left with 1 or 2 (if they get along). I'll keep one for my 125 community and maybe one as a wet pet - my plans keep changing as they grow and get more interesting, lol.


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## Bluekiller82 (Nov 16, 2006)

Looking Good!!

Thanks for the update.


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## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

convictkid said:


> WHat do you use for your black background?


Black latex paint, low sheen. I believe it was a premixed quart size sold at Lowes, so it was nice not to have to get it mixed or buy too much.

Think twice about black, though, my experience has been that most darker fish don't show well against it. A nice red/orange or yellow/white fish or a brilliant blue/green will look good, though. Just leave the duller ones out. I have a drab olive green sev who looked pretty crummy against the black, but looks ok in front of my blue background. Blue works better for most fish and is more forgiving to the color-challenged ones.


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Sweet up date pics. I love Notch!....I'm partial to the Midas confirmation too. The colors on the barred Midas are incredible. Very nice pair! :thumb: As far as tank back drops I use sheets of mica. It's light weight and easy to tape to the back of the tank. It comes in every imaginable color and lots of different styles. Even stone , granite and marble looking. Easy to change to a new color to and it's cheap.


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## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

Thanks for the compliments and the background tip, LM. Both the "pair" have dropped breeding tubes, and it may be too soon to tell, but I may have a "Brokeback" situation going on here. I am doubtful this is a "true" breeding pair bond, but rather some preliminary growing up behavior.

Ken told me that the "barred" ones are not barred midas and they will change into some kind of orange/red/white morph, but who knows -I'm starting to wonder :lol: . These are all supposed to be littermates from a yellow-white and an orange/red & white. One thing for sure is that, outside of selected aquarium strains, Midas are a highly variable fish re: color. I'm starting to put off selling some to see what develops...

Eric


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## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

Well my apologies to the fish and Heath Ledger's estate - it appears they are male and female after all. The "barred" one's tube dropped another 1/16 in. or so and definitely looks female, to me anyway. What do you all think?
























These fish are about 4" TL.


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

Eric, I'd have to agree with your assessment of things as far as sexing them goes.

Looks like you've got a nice young pair out of the batch---hope they work out for you! :thumb: 
BV


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## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

Thanks BV. You know you're a dedicated hobbyist when you're in a dark room snapping pix of a fish's "naughty bits", lol.

Eric


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

:lol: :lol:


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## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

Well the barred female "Barlinda" just laid eggs yesterday inside the plastic stump ornament. I saw her basically standing guard inside the ornament vs. just being in that area most of the time and knew something had changed - we'll see if Notch knew what his part is. Babies having babies - what is this world coming to?

Chrispy - Did you get yourself situated with a big tank again? I'll be needing to thin things out soon.

Eric


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

WakinAZ said:


> You know you're a dedicated hobbyist when you're in a dark room snapping pix of a fish's "naughty bits", lol.


Indeed...
And I can definitely relate...LMAO!!! :lol:

I hope 'Notch' manages to step up to the plate and get his job done!
BV


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Unfortunatly no new tank yet. I am going to be moving at the end of August so I will not be getting anything before then. I would love to take some off of your hands but it doesn't sound like it is in the cards. 

Nice looking pair though. I am going to enjoy watching them grow up as I not so secretly covet your fish. Maybe I can get some fry from you in the future if you grow them out. :thumb:


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## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

Inexperience won out over hormones - the eggs were abandoned and fungused over. Oh well, I don't have the time or tankspace to raise fry anyway. At least I know the sex of two of the fish at this point.

Chrispy, watch Craigslist for a bigger tank and let me know. I'm weeks if not a month or more away from picking the final one or two....

Eric


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

will do. :thumb:


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## WakinAZ (Mar 16, 2006)

Well, I sold a few on via craigslist (sorry Chrispy), so now down to three. I've got the breeding pair and one other left in the 75, separated by a DIY eggcrate divider. The non-breeder was spending the whole day cowering near the surface.

Here's a question for you: I'm feeding them 3x/day, they are all between 4.5" and 5" in TL. When should I slack off to 2x, 1x? I'm thinking around 6" for 2x and maybe 8" for 1x...

Eric


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