# My fishless cycling experience



## rgr4475 (Mar 19, 2008)

Like a lot of you, I have only used fish in the past to cycle my tanks. So I finally got with the times and did my first fishless cycle on my recently bought 180 gallon. The overall process was easier than I though it would be, in fact it's very simple. The entire process from start to finish took me 20 days. I did seed the tank with a med sized bag of gravel from an existing tank and HOB filter from an existing established tank. I really do think seeding was the key in getting it to take 20 days. I highly recommend trying to find established substrate, rocks etc. to seed your tank with. Cut down the time quite a bit. I added no live bacteria or other chemicals not related to the fishless cycling process. I also did no water changes through the entire cycling process. I did a 50% water change on day 20 at the end of the cycle.

*Filtration used on tank.*

My filtration is as follows: Fluval FX5, Marineland C-360 and 2 Emperor 400's. The tank was not drilled and the 2 canisters came with my set up. Rather than drill out the tank I decided to use what I had.

*Type of Ammonia*

Bought this from Ace Hardware for $2.99 for a 32oz bottle









*Time Line*

Day 1 - Added 1 cap full of ammonia

Day 3 - Ammonia spiked to 3.0ppm

_Continued to add a cap to a cap and a half of ammonia daily to achieve 3.0 - 5.0 ppm. I tested the ammonia everyday to make sure they were kept in range._
Day 8 - Received 1st Nitrite spike of 1ppm

Day 9 - Ammonia readings at 0ppm, Nitrite 5ppm + (Test kit only went up to 5ppm)

_I still continued to add the same amount of Ammonia through the entire cycle_

Day 15 - Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite still at 5ppm, Nitrate started to show at 10ppm (1st time testing the Nitrate)

Day 19 - Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite at .50ppm, Nitrate 40ppm

Day 20 - Ammonia 0ppm, *Nitrite 0ppm* Nitrate 40-80ppm (Hard to determine shades on test)

As mentioned before a 50% water change was done and the tank is ready for fish. :fish: However I am going to Mexico in 4 days so I am going to wait to get fish until I get back. :x

After doing this, I will *NEVER* go back to cycling with fish again. The hardest part was figuring out how much ammonia to add to the tank. I used the fishless cycling article in the library section. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... ycling.php Since I used a cap to a cap and a half for a 180 gallon tank, you can do the math and break it down for how much you will need in smaller tanks. A cap and a half is about 12-15ml give or take. So adjust accordingly for your size tank. Once I had the amount figured out it was breezed. I add the ammonia every 24 hours and that was it.

If you have any questions to about the process feel free to ask. Don't be intimidated or uncertain about this. It completely works with very little effort. Hope this write up helps some of you out. Good luck.


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## Newfishlover (Apr 16, 2010)

I plan on taking everything out of my 110 gallon so i can put a 3D background in and was loking for a little advice.

If i use the water,filter,gravel and decos frtom my 110 for my 60 holding tank could i put fish in right away or would i have to cycle it?

I am new to the hobby and only recently got involved thanks to my brother.


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## rgr4475 (Mar 19, 2008)

If you use the same of everything from your 60 and put it into your 110, I'm not 100% sure if you can put fish in right away. Some bacteria may die in the transfer and it's possible to get an ammonia spike. I have never attempted this, so I'll let someone else chime in with a more definite answer.


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## Newfishlover (Apr 16, 2010)

You got that backwards rgr i am taking it from my 110 to my 60. If i can put them in right away the water and everything will be exchanged within hours. I plan on using my syphon to take water from 110 into 5 gallon bucket then right into my 60, i have an established cannister a friend gave me when he gave me the 110 and an emperor 400 my brother gave me aswell also in use on the 110 that i could use on the 60.


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## rgr4475 (Mar 19, 2008)

Newfishlover said:


> You got that backwards rgr i am taking it from my 110 to my 60. If i can put them in right away the water and everything will be exchanged within hours. I plan on using my syphon to take water from 110 into 5 gallon bucket then right into my 60, i have an established cannister a friend gave me when he gave me the 110 and an emperor 400 my brother gave me aswell also in use on the 110 that i could use on the 60.


Sorry, read it too quickly.  If that's the case then it will probably work.


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## Newfishlover (Apr 16, 2010)

Just curious on it because i need to do this soon so i can put in the DIY 3D BG i am almost done making.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

rgr4475 thanks for sharing your experience!

Since you did seed it with gravel from a mature tank you started with an unmeasured amount of bacteria... which can affect how long it will take the cycle to complete...

So we shouldn't expect others to have the exact same results... but your experience does represent a reasonable approximation...

Newfishlover if you take the filtraton, decor, substrate, fish, etc out of your 110 gal... and place it in your 60 gal holding tank...

You should expect that 'most' of the bacteria moved along with it...

During this process I suggest using no more than half "old tank water" in the 60 gal and using the other half fresh dechlorinated tap water... This is to reduce/remove the bulk of the waste (nitrates)...

I'm guesing the 60 gal holding tank will hold your fish, decor, etc, etc for no more than a few days while you install the background in the 110. They should be fine for those few days...

Likewise you should be fine moving all of the gravel, decor, filtration, fish, etc, etc into the 110 from the 60 gal. Again I would use no more than half water from the "old tank", which is the 60 gal this time, in the "new tank", which is the 110 gal this time. This should be easy this time as your 60 gal only has about half the volume needed to fill the 110 gal 

Simply monitor the tank the fish are in for ammonia regularly and water change as needed to dilute detectable concentrations.

There is absolutely no way to know for sure how much bacteria will transfer nor how quickly they will thrive/reproduce in the new system. So we do our best and monitor closely after any major change... and water change4 as needed to reduce/remove any detectable conccentrations of unwanted pollutants...


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## firetiger (Mar 3, 2010)

rgr4475 are you going to have someone available to continue feeding your bacteria colony while you are gone? I ask this because it is my understanding that a period more than a few days with no biological load will cause your bacteria to begin to "cannibalize" itself and die off. to the "chemistry geeks" out there, is this a misunderstanding of the process on my part?


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## rgr4475 (Mar 19, 2008)

firetiger said:


> rgr4475 are you going to have someone available to continue feeding your bacteria colony while you are gone? I ask this because it is my understanding that a period more than a few days with no biological load will cause your bacteria to begin to "cannibalize" itself and die off. to the "chemistry geeks" out there, is this a misunderstanding of the process on my part?


Yes I am aware of this. I have someone coming daily to keep adding ammonia and feed my fish in my existing tank. Thank you though! :thumb:


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## rgr4475 (Mar 19, 2008)

Toby_H said:


> rgr4475 thanks for sharing your experience!
> 
> Since you did seed it with gravel from a mature tank you started with an unmeasured amount of bacteria... which can affect how long it will take the cycle to complete...
> 
> So we shouldn't expect others to have the exact same results... but your experience does represent a reasonable approximation...


I am aware that with the seeding this can effect how long it takes to cycle the tank and that others shouldn't expect the same results. I was just simply sharing my experience to perhaps answer future questions that have been asked repeatedly on the site.  :fish:


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## Evan805 (Apr 19, 2010)

I am on day 8 of my first fishless cycle experiment and my readings are as follows:

*Ammonia* - 0.25 ppm (I first brought NH3 level up to 1-2ppm)

*Nitrite* - 1.0 ppm

*Nitrate*- 30-40 ppm

I've been testing and adding ammonia daily. This sure does seem to be working fast.
My new tank has a few live plants in it. I've read that the plants can sometimes mess with the test results.

...I added old filter media to my new filter and a few old plastic plants are floating around.


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## mikeryan33 (Apr 12, 2010)

Hi guys,

I'm trying to do a fish -less cycle (first time and pretty new to this) I was adding ammonia to the tank for about a week, got a bag of dirty water from an established tank and added it to the filter, the ammonia seemed to disappear in literally a day, but now the nitrite is through the roof for the past week, the nitrate is normal. Is this normal? I stopped adding ammonia after I added the dirty water (i think that may have been a mistake) and have done a couple 50% water changes in an attempt to get the nitrite down. I think I may need some help - any suggestions? There are no fish in the tank so thankful I'm not killing anything while I fumble through this.

Thanks

Mike


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## Evan805 (Apr 19, 2010)

Mike,

Read this, it should answer a lot of your questions.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... ycling.php


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## mikeryan33 (Apr 12, 2010)

That's helpful - thanks. Do you think not feeding the bacteria introduced to the tank with ammonia for a week would have killed them? I dumped a bag of dirty water in last week and stopped adding ammonia.


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## Evan805 (Apr 19, 2010)

mikeryan33 said:


> That's helpful - thanks. Do you think not feeding the bacteria introduced to the tank with ammonia for a week would have killed them? I dumped a bag of dirty water in last week and stopped adding ammonia.


You may have to start over from scratch. A week without feeding the bacteria is not good.

The best thing to do is get some kind of filter media from an already established tank and add it to your new filter in the new tank. Water from an already established tank will most likley do next to nothing as the bacteria lives on surfaces.

make sure you get the ammonia levels up to about 2-4ppm and make sure to feed that same amount of ammonia daily through out the entier process.


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## Evan805 (Apr 19, 2010)

Mike...

by your original post it almost sounds like your cycle is complete.

Try adding enough ammonia to get your water to a level of about 2 ppm. Test your water again 24 hours later and if your ammonia level is 0 you should be good to go. ...be sure nitrite levels are 0 as well.

If you test 0 24 hours later then your bactieria is established. Do a 50% or more water change to drop the nitrates then you should be safe to add your fish.

...someone please correct me if I'm wrong. (I'm pretty new to this myself)


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## mikeryan33 (Apr 12, 2010)

Hey Evan,

I got some filter media today from an existing tank and added it to mine. Also started adding ammonia again today. So the way I understand it, I should keep adding ammonia daily until I can get the NH3 levels to around 5 mg, then continue adding the same amount of NH3 until I can get the levels down to 0 NH3 and 0 N02. I know that the NH3 should be consumed by the bacteria to create NO2, but will the bacteria that consumes the N02 to convert to NO3 develop on its own (or with help from the newly introduced media) or should I being doing something else as well?

Thanks again for the help,

Mike


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

mikeryan33 said:


> Hey Evan,
> 
> I got some filter media today from an existing tank and added it to mine. Also started adding ammonia again today. So the way I understand it, I should keep adding ammonia daily until I can get the NH3 levels to around 5 mg, then continue adding the same amount of NH3 until I can get the levels down to 0 NH3 and 0 N02. I know that the NH3 should be consumed by the bacteria to create NO2, but will the bacteria that consumes the N02 to convert to NO3 develop on its own (or with help from the newly introduced media) or should I being doing something else as well?
> 
> ...


The bacteria populate without anything needing to be done. Seeding just helps speed things up, but it's not necessary.

If by 5mg, you mean 5mg/l, then that's way too much. mg/l is somewhat equivalent to ppm, so that's what I go by and have been successful with cycling to 1-2ppm on many, many tanks. The 5ppm often recommended in how-to articles on fishless cycling is way too much.

I'd suggest adding enough daily, if necessary, to bring the ammonia level up to 1-2ppm. Precision isn't necessary, so a little more or less won't matter. Keep it simple. Find a number of drops that works and go with it.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

mikeryan33 said:


> That's helpful - thanks. Do you think not feeding the bacteria introduced to the tank with ammonia for a week would have killed them? I dumped a bag of dirty water in last week and stopped adding ammonia.


I've gone as long as 10 days during some testing. A week isn't a big deal and you won't lose all of your bacteria IME.

Another thought I had on the ammonia addition is to only add every other day. I've gone to that method with good results. Nitrite levels stay down somewhat this way. But, I also only cycle most tanks to 1ppm. Pushing more just isn't necessary IME. You'll stll cycle though using up to 5ppm. That's how I cycled when first starting out, but it took 6 weeks. Now I seed with establshed media and keep ammonia additions down. Seems to work a whole lot better.


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## Evan805 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thanks for the replys...

I'm on day 9 of my first fishless cycle.

Ammonia - 0 ppm

Nitrite - 2 ppm

Nitrate - 80+ ppm

I'm not going to add any ammonia today. I'll test again tomorrow and maybe add a capful.


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