# Lamprologus ocellatus (occies) with Haps?



## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

I'd like to put some occies in my 48" x 16" x 26" (95G) tank which has mostly male haps, a half dozen synodontis lucippinnis, 2 elipsifer eels, a julidichromis regani, and 2 bristlenose plecos.

1. Will occies likely work in this set up?
2. How many occies?
3. Would whale eyes work as shells? (e.g. http://www.shellhorizons.com/details.as ... 1-8&Page=1).
4. Any other suggestions for inexpensive, but attractive, shells?


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

Escargot shells can be purchased online cheap and make a great substitute.

What haps are you keeping?

Those eels could predate your shellies. From the initial information you have given I would not recommend adding them.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

the eels have never seen at all interested in any other fish ever. of course none are as small as the shellies i'm interested in getting.

The haps are a red empress, venustus, pheno tanz, red fin borleyi, c. moorii, c. azerus, fos. rostratus (juvie), s. fryeri, and albino taiwan reef. There are a few other fish, but none are particularly aggressive and the one you'd expect to be more aggressive (venustus) is pretty tame.

where can i purchase the escargot shells online for cheap? i imagine if there are multiple places then those closer to MD might be better to minimize shipping costs.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I would highly recommend against keeping shellies with your haps. Some of those Haps can easily eat shellies... they won't be happy. The tank is too small for some of the species you are keeping as well.

If you want to keep some shellies, get a 15-20 gallon tank for them on their own.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

what about with peacocks in a 75 gallon. no immediate plans to do that, but long term i had hoped to keep some occies and brevis/similis in a tank with all male peacocks.

would that work?

i know the 4' length is not ideal. unfortunately i have no found the right house yet and i can't upgrade to a larger tank until that happens. when it does, these guys will find there way into a much larger tank that has a 72" x 18" footprint minimum.


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

Fogelhund said:


> If you want to keep some shellies, get a 15-20 gallon tank for them on their own.


This is your best option. Mixing shellies with peacocks is not a very good option either.

Google escargot shells. I am sure you will find them.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

Thanks. I will not get the occies for this tank. Haps are quite large and often aggressive so I'm not surprised people are saying that is not a good idea. But just to understand, why is it a bad idea to mix shellies with peacocks?


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

Peacocks like to sift sand, in fact the pores you see on their jaw line are a special adaptation for sensing movement in the sand. This will result in conflict between the peacocks and the shellies. Most shellies are quite pugnatious when it comes to defending their territory, and will not back down from fish that are much larger. I have kept multifaciatus under these conditions and they did not shine until I moved them to their own tank, which was a 20 gallon long.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

thanks.

my goal was to put a group or two of active and exciting shellies (hence occies + one of brevis/similis/multies) in a tank with some larger and more colorful fish. if neither haps nor peackocks are the way to go is there an alternative that can work well that i'm missing (most tangs aren't too colorful or large)?

if not, is there any point in putting shellies in tank that is larger than a 20G long or is it just overkill? i've been thinking about a fishroom where one of the tanks was 18" deep, 6" tall, and either 36" or 48" long. I had planned on putting a school of Melanotaenia boesemani in that tank but maybe i would use it for shellies.


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

With a 6" tall tank you could put shellies in it. Putting more than one species, even in a 48" long tank can be difficult. If you are not able to keep the two groups separated, then there will be conflicts. N. multifasciatus would do very well in this type of tank, but so would most shellies. It is not overkill to use this tank for shellies. It is actually a setup that I would like to have, if I had the rooom.


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## exasperatus2002 (Jul 5, 2003)

*** kept Occies in with peacocks and Mbuna (P zebra & acei's) but Most of what you mentioned are large and also prey on fish (venustrus & the eels). Even with the famous occie attitude I wouldnt mix them. Get a 20 long and set up a colony instead.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

exasperatus,

the mixing with the haps/eels is out. i didn't think it'd work and everyone appears to have confirmed that pretty emphatically.

i'd be very happy to go with exclusively male peacocks with shellies.

you mentioned that you kept them together, but you didn't describe how well it works. dave mentioned that in his experienced the shellies might work with peacocks but it can hardly be said to be ideal. was your experience similar or did it work just fine for you?

dave,

1. so no matter the size of the tank, having more than one species of shell-dwellers is a bad idea? if you had shells on the two sides and in the center with 6" to 8" gap between the shell areas that wouldn't effectively create different zones?

2. other than just having a lot more of them, what makes it better to have a 36" x 18" x 6" tank for shellies than a 24" x 12" x 6" and a 48" x 18" x 6" than either of the other ones? i imagine at some point it is overkill (or at least significantly diminished marginal utility. yea i threw an economics term into a fish forum. sorry about that)


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

If you had a 6ft tank, you could probably get two species of shell dweller them to work together. The exception might be mixing brevis and multifasciatus together, as I have seen them work out, in a 4ft tank.

Peacocks and Lepidiolamprologus (meeli, hecqui, boulengeri) shell dwellers, or Telmatochromis sp. shell are likely to be ok with non-jacobfriebergi Peacocks (and the pure strains not the hybrids). The other shellies are more often than not going to get bullied, as the peacocks attempt to eat their fry (and they will).

Floor space is what is most important for most cichlids, so the extra area allows for more territories.


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

cholile said:


> dave,
> 1. so no matter the size of the tank, having more than one species of shell-dwellers is a bad idea? if you had shells on the two sides and in the center with 6" to 8" gap between the shell areas that wouldn't effectively create different zones?


Unless it is a very large tank, or the specific species as Fogelhund has addressed. 6"-8" gap is certainly not enough space.



> 2. other than just having a lot more of them, what makes it better to have a 36" x 18" x 6" tank for shellies than a 24" x 12" x 6" and a 48" x 18" x 6" than either of the other ones? i imagine at some point it is overkill (or at least significantly diminished marginal utility. yea i threw an economics term into a fish forum. sorry about that)


 With N. multifasciatus, it is just going to allow more space for them to colonize. With species like occies, it will allow you to spread the shells out further, which can help with males than can be rather territorial over their shells. I Like the 20 gallon long because it is 30" long, giving ample room, yet not very tall, so as not to "waste" space. I have kept a lot of shellie species, and the 20 long seems to be the best all-around tank.[/quote]


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Fogelhund said:


> If you had a 6ft tank, you could probably get two species of shell dweller them to work together. The exception might be mixing brevis and multifasciatus together, as I have seen them work out, in a 4ft tank.
> 
> Peacocks and Lepidiolamprologus (meeli, hecqui, boulengeri) shell dwellers, or Telmatochromis sp. shell are likely to be ok with non-jacobfriebergi Peacocks (and the pure strains not the hybrids). The other shellies are more often than not going to get bullied, as the peacocks attempt to eat their fry (and they will).
> 
> Floor space is what is most important for most cichlids, so the extra area allows for more territories.


I've done peacocks with L. Boulengeri, but it took a lot of work to keep the peacocks from getting shredded when the shellies spawned. I also keep multiple types of shellies in a 4 foot aquarium, but it took a lot of trial and error to get there.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

thanks all for the helpful advice.

fogelhund,

i thought occies and brevis were supposed to be pretty pugnacious. if i'm reading what you wrote correctly, then you're saying that still, they are not aggressive enough and only these shellies you listed could hold their ground and even they could only thrive in a tank with non-jacobfriebergi Peacocks.

do i have that right?

dave, (and others) is that your view as well or do you have a different perspective?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

They are pugnacious for their size, but that isn't enough given they are so much smaller. Even so, brevis really aren't that pugnacious. Basically you've understood what I am trying to say.


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

Fogelhund said:


> They are pugnacious for their size, but that isn't enough given they are so much smaller. Even so, brevis really aren't that pugnacious. Basically you've understood what I am trying to say.


 ditto


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