# Geophagus iporangensis



## robby (Feb 18, 2005)

I posted a similar post a while ago, but I'll take another shot... Does anyone else out there keep Geophagus iporangensis? I got some from a wholesaler about 1.5 years ago, and haven't seen them since. They were very expensive, even at wholesale, and am curious if anyone else has some, mine have been breeding like nuts, and would like to swap for some new blood at ACA if anyone else has them. This is not a classified ad, I really just want to know if anyone else is keeping them, and when and where they got them. I want to solve the mystery of why you never see them on the market even though they are so prolific and really just a small version of a brasiliensis.








Here's my mama ipo


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

Beautiful fish. Never seen one though and I don't know anyone who has one in a club near me.


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## Rainbowman (Apr 14, 2004)

I think they are probably a lot more common than you think. The problem is they are usually sold as G. brasiliensis, and even the best reference books (like South American Eartheaters) aren't all that helpful (often including conflicting information) in telling them apart. And although I completely believe you if you say that your fish is G. iporangensis, if you read the description and look at the pictures (with fish that have much more elongated snouts than your photo) in South American Eaters I think you would have a hard time indentifying your photo as G. iporangensis. Far from meaning that your are wrong, it just means to me that even the experts have a hard time nailing down the specific characteristics of this species. Which means finding more could be difficult as wholesalers don't seem to sort them out, but continue to dump them into the generic G. brasiliensis complex.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

That's a good looking fish. Looks very colorful and quite healthy! 

That said, I'm gonna hope that these fish you were sold as _Geophagus iporangensis_ came from a completely unimpeachable, absolutely reliable source. Unfortunately, this species really is just that hard to discriminate from G. brasiliensis....

I'm running into much the same problem with a completely new color morph of a wild caught Honduran Red Point pair of cichlids, I now have in my own collection. I've been told both on this forum and off of it in person, by some very knowledgable people, that my pair of cichlids are some of the most interesting, and colorful Archocentrus nigrofasciatus, _(CONVICTS!)_ that they've ever seen.
All well and good, I suppose.... Except I personally know that the river where these cichlids were collected, is quite far north of the natural range of any Convict cichlids in Honduras. And, I can actually guarantee that fact - because I caught this pair of completely new color morphed, Honduran Red Point cichlids - myself!!

You're gonna need just a bit of that sort of absolute reliability, I'm afraid - to guarantee that those Geo's you now have are, in fact, what species they were claimed to be, when sold to you.... :?


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## robby (Feb 18, 2005)

I got them from one of the biggest and most reputable wholesalers in the country who we have been doing business with for many years. Mine do have that pointy snout, it just might not look as long in the pic because she's at an angle. I've kept brasiliensis, and they grow faster and much larger than the ipos I have. My male is about 5.5" which is pushing that 10 cm max you see everywhere, and the female is much smaller, but with the amount of info out there on them, I think everyone has just copied the size info out of the "SA Eartheaters" book, which could be wrong.

I bet a lot of them are sold are sold as brasiliensis, but I've seen a lot of true brasiliensis, and mine are definitely different. They're more elongate, less stout and their jewel spots are smaller, and just different looking than most brasiliensis (though there's lots of variation in the species).

If anyone knows a scale count, ray count, or bone structure that is different than brasiliensis, let me know, I work in the river studies program for Texas Parks and Wildlife, and have all of the dissecting equipment available and could verify them if someone gave me a lead on what to look for. Come to think of it, I have access to scientific journals, too, and though it's a slim chance, I'll do a search in them for info.

If anyone can help me out, it'd be much appreciated,


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## Rainbowman (Apr 14, 2004)

I have 8 Geophagus that are the spitting image of the G. iporangensis photo in South American Eartheaters (page 201). But any time I have tried to really nail the i.d. down, I haven't been able to do it. The information on them is sparse and conflicting, I am not sure I will ever know for sure what I have.

10 cm sounds small even for an iporangensis, I think it is much more likely the males top out at 20cm. A 10cm female would be easy to imagine.

If you find a definitive method for identification (scales, rays, etc.), I hope you will pass it along. You would be doing me (and I am sure many others) a big favor.

Without having anything to add to the debate, I am following the HRP saga with great interest. My profession is horticulture, and although I am relatively new to fishkeeping by comparison, the confusion caused by these fish is very familiar to me. Newly introduced plants bring up many of the same kinds of questions and issues. And I have learned (at least with plant material) that no matter how confident the experts are early on, it makes sense to be a touch skeptical if their conclusions don't fit what your own eyes see. Can't wait to see how it all shakes out :wink:


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## robby (Feb 18, 2005)

bump


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## Rainbowman (Apr 14, 2004)

The reason for the bump is there seems to be virtually nothing definitive available on this species. My intuition is that over time, ipos will not even be considered a valid species. If you believe ipos are a valid species, how about tracking down some definitive i.d info on them? Can't you contact the wholesaler you bought them from and ask how they i.d. them? If they can answer the question you have found some great information we would all love to hear, but if they can't answer the question, then how sure can you be your fish are ipos? Also, you indicated you may have a lead through the journals on your job, how has that panned out?


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## robby (Feb 18, 2005)

The wholesaler said fish are getting harder and harder to get outta SA, and the contact from the South of Brazil is gone for one reason or another. He's definitely trustworthy-has a very good rep-and wouldn't be passing brasiliensis or Bahia reds off as ipo's, he sells those as what they are. On thelist he only had like 8 to begin with, too.

No luck in the journals, either. Hopefully I'll get a connection pretty soon that can help me. If not, I'll hopefully find some answers @ ACA; I'm takin some 1-2" fry.

Thruthfully, I'm pretty close to buying a couple of similarly sized brasiliensis from the store I work at and takin them to the lab w/ my ipos and measuring gill rakers, doing ray counts, and scale counts under the microscope to see if I can see anything,


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## roo68 (Apr 20, 2005)

Maybe Texas A&M can help you identify your fish. I remember reading an article in Tropical Fish Hobbyist about a graduate student who specializes in South American eartheaters. And he is studying/researching under some fish guru prof there. I can't remember all the details. If I can find it I'll let you know. But the guy has already found some new species. Seems like a reliable source that is near you. I will try to find that article again.


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## baos780 (Jun 8, 2008)

I have this fish, identified as iporangensis and looking similar to your photograph. I bought them at a fish auction for very reasonably cheap and it appears as though the breeder has set me up to breed these fish, I have males and females and they appear to be from different spawns.


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

Not to derail from this site but you may want to check around at Monsterfishkeepers.com as well in the Classifieds section - they get a lot of traffic from guys with exotics.

Identifying rare geophagus is tough - these look like every other geophagus I've seen on the market in the past, so I couldn't help you there. But definitely look into other resources if you don't get an answer here.

Good luck!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Guys, note the date on the original thread...

It may be a non issue at this point!

Kim


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 24, 2008)

Dur dur dur.


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## baos780 (Jun 8, 2008)

The date may be old, but I havn't come into contact with any other geophagus iporangensis breeders myself and find that I am in the same situation with very little knowledge about how this fish works or even breeds.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

baos780 said:


> The date may be old, but I havn't come into contact with any other geophagus iporangensis breeders myself and find that I am in the same situation with very little knowledge about how this fish works or even breeds.


Normal forum procedure would be to begin your own thread on the fish... if you wanted to reference the 3 yr old thread, you can put a link in.

Anyhow, no harm...

You mention that the fish appear to be from different spawns... I've been trying to figure that one out... the fish look different? or are you just assuming this based on some difference like size?


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## baos780 (Jun 8, 2008)

I went to an auction hosted by fish breeders. Also noted numerous store owners there from my area. The blue rams that were up, were mixed for breeding purposes. The geophagus bag I got had fish of noticeably different sizes, but very very young. Two appear to have mated at this point. Lots of vibrating on the bottom of the tank together. I have learned how to sex them with the bump on the males forehead. some are still too young, or they are all females. My biggest one being four times the size of the rest.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

I kept Bahia Red and they also belong to the Brasiliensis complex and are very close related.

What is the info you are exactly looking for? If it is breeding you can reed up info on "Geophagus" brasiliensis. The Iporangensis belongs to the Brasiliensis complex and have the same needs and behaviours. The Brasiliensis complex is a very hardy specie but be aware of their more territorial, boisterious and sometimes even aggressive behaviour. Brasilienses are not any longer considered as a true Geophagus. Sexing youngsters can be quit difficult. Adults is not that difficult becouse females are smaller and males do have a small head hump. Males can grow to 10+ inch (sometimes up to 12 inch) and need a tank of at least 48 inch long. They do best in pairs.


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## xrockx (Jan 17, 2005)

robby said:


> I posted a similar post a while ago, but I'll take another shot... Does anyone else out there keep Geophagus iporangensis? I got some from a wholesaler about 1.5 years ago, and haven't seen them since. They were very expensive, even at wholesale, and am curious if anyone else has some, mine have been breeding like nuts, and would like to swap for some new blood at ACA if anyone else has them. This is not a classified ad, I really just want to know if anyone else is keeping them, and when and where they got them. I want to solve the mystery of why you never see them on the market even though they are so prolific and really just a small version of a brasiliensis.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have 4 of these. Got them about 3 months ago around 1.5'', they are now pushing 4''. I can't believe how fast these fish have grown. I bought these from a local fish store and they were labeled as F1's. Only paid $6 per fish, really pretty fish. I haven't seen any breeding yet.

How big were yours when they started to breed?
How can you tell if they're male or female?


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