# what could I keep in a 4x2' tank, Dwarf planted community



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

What would be needed for a Dwarf cichlid community in a 110 gal? Would that be cool?
So far I got rocks, driftwood and sand.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

What kind of dwarfs? Rams and apistos?


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

not really sure. I took my fiance' to the tropical fish store and she really liked all the planted tanks. At first I was thinking of doing either some central american fish like Salvini, sevs, and stuff, but she wants a community and plants.
I'm thinking a good compromise might be a planted tank with dwarf cichlids like rams, congo tetras, corries, barbs etc... maybe rainbows etc...

Because the other fish I like would tear up plants I think.

But I'm not sure what type of lights we would need and if we could find them cheap, I'm sure if we're talking a lot more money she would change her mind. I think this idea would be beautiful but it might be a lot of work and need more equipment. I'm not sure


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

The type of plants you want to keep will determine the kind of lighting you need. ONly a few species (anubias, java fern) do ok under stand aquarium lighting (one standard t5 or t8 bulb), some do ok under LED, most need at least two t5HO bulbs and many 4. Some of the LED for reef tanks work good with plants, but they are not cheap. Right now I am looking into the Finnex Fuge Ray and Ray2 LEDs. They are supposed to work well with plants and they are very reasonably price. Odysea makes nice 48" quad t5HO unit with monnlights for around $120 that would grow almost any plant species. What's your budget?


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Also, rams in a community tank densely planted would look awesome!


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

if I could buy something plug and play with bulbs for $100 I would do it, anything more than that I would really have to think hard about


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## Pseudeotropheus BB (Jan 24, 2013)

Will this be a fish first or plant first tank? How experienced are you with plants and what sort of PM will you be running on the tank. For instance will you be performing 50% water changes each week.


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

Hmm, I don't know. I have never owned an aquatic plant. Wouldn't a heavy planted tank require much less water changes? I thought plants stabilize parameters


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Use the walstad method. In her method the tank is kept by the window so it recieves a couple hours of sunlight and 1 t-5 or t-8 bulb supplements the lighting. Not only that There is no maintanace and only 1 canister filter involved, so no expensive stuff. Perfect for what you are going for. This guy has a lot of info on his channel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhtqX6f9 ... nEE6Lnd3CA


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## Pseudeotropheus BB (Jan 24, 2013)

dredgesclone said:


> Hmm, I don't know. I have never owned an aquatic plant. Wouldn't a heavy planted tank require much less water changes? I thought plants stabilize parameters


Since this is you maiden attempt at plant keeping I would keep it simple and do a little research. There is a ton of information available which could potentially cause you brain to go in overload so my suggestion is keep it simple at first. I would go with clhinds78 suggestion of dual t5HO and use one 10K and one 6500 bulb each. I am not sure about your tanks dimensions but if the tank is 2' deep I would go with low to medium light level plants. These are some of the easiest plants to grow and are some of my personal favorites. Crypt Lutea (foreground-midground, one of my favorite plants), Crypt Parva (foreground plant, very slow grower but extremely hardy), Crypt Wendtii (all colors), Crypt Undulata. There are plenty of others but these are some of my favorites.

In regards to fish, Rainbows would be excellent addition. One thing to keep in mind is Rainbows do require regular mandatory 50% weekly water changes as well as critical PH and Water hardness awareness as well as substantial water movement. If these fish are kept in optimal water conditions they will reward like no other freshwater fish, imo. If you have never seen Rainbows color flashing you are surely missing out if you have you no what a mean.

Adding a shoal of Congos and Emperors to go along with some German Blues and Angels would make for a very nice tank as well.


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks guys.
Can you link me an example of the light your suggesting please? Are we talking a coralite or something, I'm confused. How much are we talking for plug and play? I don't have a canopy to hide them in.

Also, is pool filter sand ok for sub?


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## Pseudeotropheus BB (Jan 24, 2013)

I would recommend the Aquatic Life 48" T-5 HO Dual Lamp Fixture Freshwater. If your tank is 2' wide you would want at least two of them. The fixture is linkable and believe you can link up to three. As far as substrate goes that is strictly up to you and what you think looks best but yes pool sand is fine.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Check out these t5HO lightening options from one of the forum sponsors. Both Deep Blue and Zoo Med have a duel t5HO fixture for around $100-120. The Deep Blue is around $120, but it does have moonlights.

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-suppli ... hting.html


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

http://www.aquatraders.com/LED-Aquarium ... /56205.htm

hmm, most reviews seem positive, maybe combined with my 4' used $10 aquarium strip light fixture and some sunlight it might do?


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

or this

http://www.aquatraders.com/LED-Aquarium ... /56284.htm


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

on a side note a guy offered to sell me this if you think it might be enough:
"I have a standard tank light strip
1 attinic
1powerglo 18000k
And 1 powerglo 18000k new in box "

*so with my florescent and his 2 bulb fixture I could run all the above bulbs, would that work? *


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

From what I have been reading I'm liking the idea of buying a LED setup. It just seems like a wiser purchase when you figure the electric bill and cost of replacing bulbs etc...
Any suggestions?


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Current has some nice, decently priced units. Also, the Finnex FugeRay and Ray2 are interesting choices, especially if you want to have live plants.


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

so far I have 3 offers, 1. the 2 bulb system I spoke of above that I could trade for a used sump tank,

2. a 4 bulb power compact light with legs that he said would be enough for a planted tank. I could trade for a overflow box.

3. a complete plug and play 48" 4x54W t5ho lights used for $100.

4. a 2 t5 and 2 MH under a canopy that made for a 48 inch tank system for $75 used


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Depending on brand you could get a new 4x48" t5HO light with moonlights for $120. Either go that route or talk him down.


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

like this? http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-4x54 ... 52305p.htm


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

dredgesclone said:


> like this? http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-4x54 ... 52305p.htm


Exactly!

I'm actually looking at this one because it has a built in timer and its only $10 more:

http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-4x54 ... /52325.htm


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

Wow, I didn't even notice that the fishneedit lights are now on sale for 50% off, so that used light isn't a deal at all, I can get a new one for the same price, I think I'm going to go for this:

http://www.fishneedit.com/index.html


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=8982

This is $114 local to me

???


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

dredgesclone said:


> http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=8982
> 
> This is $114 local to me
> 
> ???


That looks pretty good, but you can get aquarium lights with moonlights and a timer for about the same price. That one does come with 6400k bulbs so that is nice.


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

The reason I ask is because I got people on other forums telling me Odyssea and fishneedit are garbage and that these might be better quality, I'm so confused


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

First decide what your budget for the lightening is and then go from there. If you can't afford the more expensive equipment then you can't afford it. I usually don't get the most expensive stuff, but I don't cheap out either. Somewhere int he middle has always worked best for me. I think the beamswork and Finnex lines are pretty good. Check into the Finnex Ray2 system for your tank. If it can grow corals I think it can grow plants.


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

thanks.
I imagine I want 3" of dirt and 1 or 2 of sand so 22-5= 17" from top to bottom

I guess what I don't understand is why wouldn't it be ok to just do low level light plants, centered towards the back of the tank with a Finnex 48" LED over them, grow some plants back there and have some shady areas in the front where the fish school or will all the light just be washed out if it's not centered? 
I want to go low tech anyways, won't t5 ho's push me close to needing co2 and fertilizers?


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## Pseudeotropheus BB (Jan 24, 2013)

Dredge there are a host of reasons that goes into purchasing items including budget. I have never tried any of the aforementioned lighting systems however one thing to keep in mind is folks who are very successful at keeping planted aquariums more than likely are not using any of those systems. Could they be adequate, sure however there is also a reason why they are so inexpensive. I realize that budget is a strong contributor when it comes to any hobby, including this one and I am only giving you a reason to pause and think hard before you buy. I personally use the system I mentioned earlier on three of my five tanks and can give it a strong recommendation.


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

PBB what would you buy if you were in my shoes for my 48"x24"x22" and wanted to keep it low tec? 
I take it you feel I need a dual t5 ho, and 4 bulbs would be too much?

and same question but with unlimited budget


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

dredgesclone said:


> thanks.
> I imagine I want 3" of dirt and 1 or 2 of sand so 22-5= 17" from top to bottom
> 
> I guess what I don't understand is why wouldn't it be ok to just do low level light plants, centered towards the back of the tank with a Finnex 48" LED over them, grow some plants back there and have some shady areas in the front where the fish school or will all the light just be washed out if it's not centered?
> I want to go low tech anyways, won't t5 ho's push me close to needing co2 and fertilizers?


This could work just fine. I have seen many ppl using the Finnex LEDs to grow even high light plants. Most of your background plants (swords, cryps, vals) require a decent amount of light while a lot of your mid to foreground plants don't (anubias, java fern). Carpeting plants such as baby tears and chain sword do require high light so you may not be able to keep them unless you had two strips since your tank is so wide and fairly deep.

4" of substrate sounds like a lot. I would go with 2" max of dirt and .5" or so of sand.


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## Pseudeotropheus BB (Jan 24, 2013)

The biggest issue I see for you is tank size. Its much easier (and less expensive) to grow plants in a smaller tank and the fact that you are new to them is going to make this venture that much more difficult. I also see you are going to go with a dirted tank, is that correct? I am not so sure I would recommend a rookie going that route however if you have a good source to whom you are communicating with maybe you will have success. In regards to lighting, you are going to need high light level to penetrate the 22"H of the tank thus I would stay with hardy plants with low to mid level light requirements. In regards to a recommendation I can only offer up what my current configuration is and thats the Aquatic Life T-5-HO freshwater fixture for my 50G live planted and 100G Mbuna. I am currently running Zoo Med Ultra Sun and Ocean Sun bulbs in each dual fixture for both my 50 and 100. I am currently not running Co2 in my 50G live planted tank and have achieved whats seems to be an excellent lighting/oxygenation balance for both fish and plants through trial and error. Its a very difficult task to find that perfect median between Light, nutrients and Co2 without running Co2 to control algae growth and plant growth however it is possible.

Now if I was to start up a tank the size of yours I would probably purchase a single T-5-HO 48" fixture at 108W with the recommended bulbs above. I would also purchase some Seachem Flourish Excel as an additive. I would than purchase several of the plants that I recommended earlier and see how they fare. Keep in mind that its difficult enough for the more experience plant keeper to have success keeping live plants in a tank this size and for the beginner its that much more difficult. You probably will end up having to buy an additional light fixture which may require you to cut back on how long your lights remain on. I could go on and on about my experiences however I do not want to confuse you.

Have you thought about a smaller tank for plants?


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

No, my fiance wants me to keep it to one aquarium. If the plant thing turns out to be a disaster then I guess plastic plants are going to have nice lights over them lol

this is what I'm currently contemplating:

I want to do low tech/ low to med lights, so I could buy a 4 bulb fishneedit unit for half off right now as seen here:
Aluminum body is lightweight, heavy duty and rust proof Accommodates ultra efficient,

External Ballasts

high output T-5 lamps Included 4 x 54w bulbs

2 switches and 2 power-cords,so you can use timer

Cool operation and NO noise

48"L x 9"W x 3" high

Mounting Leg : Included

this would cost me about $90 delivered, I hear they are known to not be very high powered but I figure I probably don't need high powered for what I'm wanting to do. I believe this unit can run just half the lights at a time.

or I'm contemplating just doing low level light plants, centered towards the back of the tank with a Finnex 48" LED over them, grow some plants back there and have some shady areas in the front where the fish school.

The finnex LED's I'm looking at are the fugeray and the ray2

















I can't make up my mind on what direction to go in.
I could add a t8 florescent to this or some compact pc lights if I had to.

this is what the finnex guy wrote me:
"Our FugeRay series is great for low level light plants And our Ray ll Ds series is great for high light plants.

I'm not married to any brands these are just the ones I have been looking into.

Now if I went with the stronger ray II, as my single plant light, I am thinking since it's still my only plant light that I will still be in low light territory.


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## Pseudeotropheus BB (Jan 24, 2013)

Reading through all the information it seems they are made with quality parts. Matter a fact I just ordered a couple of the Finnex FugeRay-R Ultra Slim LED Fixture +RED for my Nano Tanks.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

I'm considering the FugeRay for my 29G and 10G planted tanks.


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

Aquatic-Life-48-6-Lamp-6-x-54W-T5-HO-Light-Fixture
found one of these on craigslist for $100!

I'm thinking I should buy it


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm 99% sure I'm picking this up tomorrow from a guy on craigslist. I know it's probably way more than I need but the price is right and it gives me options:
Aquatic-Life-48-6-Lamp-6-x-54W-T5-HO-Light-Fixture
*48" used 6x54w AquaticLife T5HO Light Fixture W/ 4 LEDs $100
*

and now I found this much closer to my house:
- ($125 o.b.o.) 48" Current Nova Extreme 4x T5HO Bulbs (Aquablue, Rosette, Current 10k, ZooMed 6700k < 6mth old) + Lunar Lights! Mounting Legs. Has 4 plugs for completely customizable Lighting time capabilities.

I don't know what one would be better


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## Pseudeotropheus BB (Jan 24, 2013)

The Aquatic Life is a better made fixture. I am using a current nova extreme on a 36" tank and although it functions fine the bulb itself does not fit securely into the fixture and I have heard others experiencing the same issue. I would go with the Aquatic Life which will give you 3W per gallon. You can always use four bulbs instead of six if you believe the tank is getting too much light.


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## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

update:
the guy with the 4 bulb fixture and extra bulbs wouldn't take my offer so I bought the 6 bulb aquaiticlife fixture. I know it's more than I need but I can run it in 2, 4 or 6 bulb mode.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

dredgesclone said:


> update:
> the guy with the 4 bulb fixture and extra bulbs wouldn't take my offer so I bought the 6 bulb aquaiticlife fixture. I know it's more than I need but I can run it in 2, 4 or 6 bulb mode.


Well, that worked out.


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