# Plant friendly cichlids?



## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Alright, so I have heard that generally plants don't work with cichlids(with a few acceptions, like tying java to rocks). But I really want to set up a couple planted tanks and feel like they would be incomplete without cichlids.

So this is what I'm thinking. I just bought a 40g breeder(~36"x18"x17"), I think that this would be a perfect tank for a nice amano style aquagarden. I was thinking of having open sand substrate in the front and have the rest be fairly heavily planted and have a nice hardscape too(pretty standard). Is there a cichlid that could go in here without destroying all my beautiful hypothetical plants?

I was thinking maybe some apistos or as a second choice some rams. Probably just one pair of either. Then I would want a nice school of rummynose tetras and maybe something else too, but the rummynose and undecided cichlids are my priorities.

I am also doing a 20g high riparium, so it would end being more like a 15g after I drop the water line. In this one it will be mostly surface plants. Any ideas for this one? I know its very small, I was thinking maybe I could do apistos in the 40 breeder and the rams in the ~15g. Although it may just be too small.

Any thoughts, suggestions, criticisms, etc are greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Since you posted this in the South American forum, I'm assuming that's the type of cichlids you're considering for a planted tank? There's no problem with the dwarves. I've had blue rams, Bolivian rams, apistos, angels, curviceps and rainbow cichlids in planted tanks with no problem at all.

Also, I do have a blue orchid peacock tank with plants -- java fern, anubias, giant hygro, crypt wendentii, vals and onion plants. The peacocks don't touch any of them . . .


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Yes, I am thinking of doing just south americans. Although I would consider other soft water cichlids as well.

I don't know how you got the rainbows to work, I've seen them wipe out an entire planted tank before. 

I have heard that rams will uproot plants if they are not tied to a rock. Is there any ruth to this?

I haven't heard anything about apistos. They are my first choice, so I would love to hear more peoples experiences with them.


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## TexasFishGuy (Aug 20, 2010)

My A. Macmasteri does not seem to do too much digging. The female I had did right before she had her fry, but she passed shortly after having them. 

I only have 3 live plants in the tank, but he does not really bother them.


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

My rainbows don't touch the plants and I have an extremely heavily planted tank[/img]. They will uproot some if they are near a rock they decide to spawn on, but that's no big deal. I leave a spawning rock for them in a relatively open area. They did eliminate all my duck weed, but that was a good thing!

Blue rams never uprooted anything.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

I think the hey is to have the plants prior to adding the fish so that they can root themselves securely... None of the SA dwarves will dig so much to uproot well established plants - at least none of the ones off the top of my head.

I also see kribs in planted tanks quite a bit.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Great, thanks. I was planning on getting the tank fully grown in before adding them anyways. :thumb:


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

How will the rams/apisos do with shrimp?


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## TexasFishGuy (Aug 20, 2010)

My Macmasteri does not bother my Amanos at all. I have only had the Apisto for a month now though, so that could change, but for now, all is well as far as the shrimp go.


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

my keyholes ate 3 of those 'self cloning crayfish'. I kind of expected it as they were small and they shed their exoskeleton when they grow - leaving them vulnerable... I also did not provide sufficient cover/hiding areas for them.

A friend kept cherry shrimp w/apistos for years - but he had lots of dense plants and a stacked slate background that offered lots of nooks & crannies the shrimp could hide in.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks for all the help everyone.

To go in a slightly different direction...

Would a mated pair of discus work in a 40g breeder(~36x18x17)?

This would be my first attempt keeping discus and I would probably be using an RO system.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

This is my 3'x18"x18" planted apisto tank.

Tank









Pair of agassizii









Tankmates


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Oops just read your going in a different direction.

I think you could do a pair of any of the dwarf american cichlids, apistos, dwarf acaras, dwarf pikes or rams. My personal opinion is this sized tank is a little small for Discus or Angels, simply becuase they are tall cichlids.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I wasn't decided on going with discus, I was just trying to go through some different options.

I think I will go with apistos.

Those agassizii look amazing. They don't look like the picture in the profile section. Is this a different variant?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

They are a line bred variant, red/gold. There are many wild forms of agassizii, as well as a few line bred variants. The profiles here are far from complete when it comes to all the apisto species and agassizii wild forms. Here is a link to a more comprehensive list of apistos, Martin and TomC's site.

I also have agassizii A. cf. "Netz" Alenquer.

















A. cf. agassizii "Pastell" Peru.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Wow, those look great too. I was starting to think I didn't want apistos because the pics in the profile section don't make them look very atractive, but whenever I see someone post pics of their apistos they almost always look amazing.

Thanks for the link, I'll start looking through them.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

The easiest Apisto to keep are the line bred forms of Cacatuoides. There are two well established line bred variants that are listed in the C-F profile section, Cacatuoides "triple red" and Cacatuoides "orange flash". To be honest the photos here are not that great, and a decent LFS should be able to source some very good looking stock for you.

There is also a new line bred variant, Cacatuoides "orange flame". These are a very nice variant and have a "softer" look to them than the older two line bred variants. They are a hardy species, and do breed easy. I have a trio, each female has her own tank and the male is kept seperate except when I want to breed them. However a pair would be fine in an adequately scaped 3 foot tank.

I do not have a photo of mine, so have nicked a photo from the net.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

I don't really like the cacatuoides. They are a little bit too ostentatious, especially for this setup I'm working on. I like the more subtle flashes of color and interesting markings like you see on the agassizii A. cf. "Netz" Alenquer you posted.

Are apistos especially hard to keep? The aquascaping in this tank is going to take absolute priority, so altering it to fit the needs of the apistos is not an option. I figured in a tank this size one pair of apistos wouldn't cause any trouble.

The aquascaping may be very minimalistic with mostly just rocks and ground cover, I'm not sure yet, but that is an option.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

As long as the water quality is good, and preferably a little acidic with a PH between 6 and 7, most apistos would be fine. The big thing is try and find out what species are available locally. Or you might look at ordering them online. Another C-F member has ordered a couple of species online. Search for some recent threads by MonteSS.

Here is a link to a dedicated dwarf cichlid forum, Apistogramma Forums. As this is a planted tank and not an apisto tank, I would certainly do some research on species that are hardy and will suite your water parameters.

I am quite lucky where I live, as there is a LFS that specialises in dwarf cichlids and apistos particularly. Here's a recent stock list.
Apistogramma agassizii "double red" B3 $27.95 M $29.95 F
Apistogramma agassizii "double red - white seam" on request $29.95
A. agassizii "alenque" B4 $28.95
A. agassizii "flamengo" C5 $29.95 (WC)
A. baenschi "inka 50" D4 $32.95 (WC)
A. bitaeniata on request $29.95 (WC)
A. bitaeniata "Peru Yellow" D9 $32.95 (WC males, TB females)
A. borellii B1 $27.95 (TB)
A. cacatuoides "orange flame" E3 $28.95 (TB)
A. cacatuoides "triple red" D15 $28.95 (TB)
A. eunotus B2 $29.95 (TB)
A. fressa E11 $29.95 (WC)
A. gephyra F1 $29.95 (not agassizii) (WC)
A. hongsloi E5 $92pr (one pair only) (TB)
A. hoignei B2 OOS
A. juruensis "black chin" E10 $29.95 (WC)
A. masken (Painted Face) D10 $31.95 (nice wild caught for newbies)
A. nijsseni F2 $29.95 (WC)
A. panduro D7 $29.95 (WC)
A. pebas sp morado "purple" D3 $31.95 (limited) (WC)
A. trifasciatus C1 $25.95 M $28.95 F (TB)
A. rio mamore F6 $42.95 (WC)
A. viejita "super red II" DISPLAY $79.95 pr (TB)
Apistogramma martini on request $39.95 (WC Rare)
Taenicara candidi E2 $45.00 (TB Rare)
Apistogramma agassizii "flame tail" on request $39.95 (WC Rare)


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Apistos aren't available anywhere around here. If you get lucky you might find some cacatuoides. I have never bought cichlids from a LFS, I always buy online. It has worked for me so far, although I would prefer to be able to see the fish I'm buying before hand.


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## Andras (Jul 17, 2010)

tokyo said:


> How will the rams/apisos do with shrimp?


 I have literally watched a pair of blue rams anihilate 25+ red cherry shrimp in less than 30 minutes. I don't know how they kept eating because they weren't that big. Once I dropped the shrimp in the tank they did not stop hunting them until they were all gone   :?


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

My favorite apisto by far is the borelli (opal). Lovely, steel blue. I prefer its body shape to the agassizi, myself.

Although right now, the best New World cichlid IMHO is the rainbow cichlid. It's beyond fabulous!!


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

Rainbows are nice, they wouldn't really fit in this setup though.


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

+1 on Apistos/Rams not working with shrimp. Some have had it work with Amano shrimp, since they are bigger.
Use ottos and nerite snails instead for algae control.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I keep riffle shrimp in my planted tank with some apistos and have no problems at all.


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