# When Albino Peacocks breed...



## royrusso (Aug 13, 2012)

Curious as to what the fry look like when albino peacocks breed. Are all of the offspring albino?


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

albino mom + albino dad should yield 100% albino fry. I have never tested this, though.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Let me do a weird punnett square
N=Normal n=albino
Since albino is a recessive gene, then the only way for the fish to be albino is nn. If both parents are nn, then the offspring must be albino.
_____n________n____
n |_nn____|___nn____|
n |__nn___|___nn____|


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## royrusso (Aug 13, 2012)

My brain is going to explode. I'm an economist that flunked high school biology. Can you put it in english terms?


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Sorry. So the only way an albino can happen is if the albino only has albino genes, like nn. So if two albino breed, the only possible gene combination is nn.
Therefore, the offspring have to be albino.


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## royrusso (Aug 13, 2012)

Got it!


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

While generally that's true, there are multiple ways/gene mutations that can make an animal albino so if you have albino parents, both double recessive for their form of albinism (but via two different genes), you'll get 100% colored for the F1 since the offspring will be heterozygotic at each loci (one recessive and one normal gene at each of two loci from each parent). There are also gene mutations for albinism that are dominant (ie they suppress the expression of color genes) so in that case you get a mix in the F1. It may well be hat in these fish, those forms of albinism haven't yet been found though. Sorry to make your mind explode more.


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## royrusso (Aug 13, 2012)

Makes no sense to me. However, if they aren't albino offspring, they should simply be the normal type of fish, right?

I'm thinking they shouldn't be like flowerhorns, where the offspring are mostly some hybrid things.


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

right, if they aren't albino they'll be normal colored fish of that species - the albino is simply the species with a gene mutation.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Yael said:


> While generally that's true, there are multiple ways/gene mutations that can make an animal albino so if you have albino parents, both double recessive for their form of albinism (but via two different genes), you'll get 100% colored for the F1 since the offspring will be heterozygotic at each loci (one recessive and one normal gene at each of two loci from each parent). There are also gene mutations for albinism that are dominant (ie they suppress the expression of color genes) so in that case you get a mix in the F1. It may well be hat in these fish, those forms of albinism haven't yet been found though. Sorry to make your mind explode more.


Indeed... but given you purchase a couple of albinos, you'll never know whether the gene is double recessive or not. "Most" of the time if you have two albinos, the fry will all be albino, but not always.


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

When all the fry of two albinos come out normal color then you know you have parents with two different albino genes. All you need to do to confirm this is to breed the F1s to each other, you'll get about 1/8 albinos out of that (because each F1 will be Aa - Bb at the two loci). For the ones where albinism is dominant, it depends on whether the parents are homozygotic or heterozygotic for that gene, but you'll always get some albino fry even with just one albino parent. Do enough breeding and you can figure it out.

There's also the interesting case where one or the other of a pair of color control gene is expressed per cell - you can get piebald coloration (best example is in gray squirrels where there are white, gray and black morphs in a population and sometimes the color control gene causes different parts of the body to take on different colors. I'm wondering if that's what makes the OB coloration in some cichlids.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Don't forget that most albinos currently available in the hobby are not natural and are likely hybrids themselves. An F1 hybrid would be rare.


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

By not natural and hybrid - do you mean via two different species? I'm not following how you'd be more likely to get an albino out of a two or more species cross. Of course if you mean by not natural that someone selectively line bred to increase the frequency of an albino gene mutation, then yes, not exactly natural but also not a hybrid.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't think we are giving the benefit of the doubt in thinking the albinos on the market (in general) are line bred.


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

Seems like you'd have to wonder about any color morph being a hybrid then.


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## malagabee_8333 (1 mo ago)

Yael said:


> When all the fry of two albinos come out normal color then you know you have parents with two different albino genes. All you need to do to confirm this is to breed the F1s to each other, you'll get about 1/8 albinos out of that (because each F1 will be Aa - Bb at the two loci). For the ones where albinism is dominant, it depends on whether the parents are homozygotic or heterozygotic for that gene, but you'll always get some albino fry even with just one albino parent. Do enough breeding and you can figure it out. There's also the interesting case where one or the other of a pair of color control gene is expressed per cell - you can get piebald coloration (best example is in gray squirrels where there are white, gray and black morphs in a population and sometimes the color control gene causes different parts of the body to take on different colors. I'm wondering if that's what makes the OB coloration in some cichlids.


 Hi I just want to let u know I recently tried breeding Ruby red male to albino female and the F1s turned out all OBs. Not the direction I want to go.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

DJRansome said:


> Don't forget that most albinos currently available in the hobby are not natural and are likely hybrids themselves. An F1 hybrid would be rare.


Nonsense. Albinism and interspecific hybridization have absolutely nothing to do with each other.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

sir_keith said:


> Nonsense. Albinism and interspecific hybridization have absolutely nothing to do with each other.


While this is true, I think they were referring to the fact that most, if not all, albino Peacocks are the result of crossing various species of _Aulonocara _with one of the albino forms of Mbuna. Ergo, albinism in Peacocks is the indirect result of hybridization. However, it still has the same genetic results as any other albino. Being a recessive gene, albino to albino will only produce albino offspring.


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## sir_keith (Oct 30, 2018)

Mr Chromedome said:


> While this is true, I think they were referring to the fact that most, if not all, albino Peacocks are the result of crossing various species of _Aulonocara _with one of the albino forms of Mbuna. Ergo, albinism in Peacocks is the indirect result of hybridization. However, it still has the same genetic results as any other albino. Being a recessive gene, albino to albino will only produce albino offspring.


I agree with you 100% provided you modify your sentence to read '_Ergo, albinism in *Peacock hybrids* is the indirect result of hybridization *with an albino of another species*. However, it still has the same genetic results as any other albino._'


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