# Eheim Jager heater - vertical only?



## magpie

I have an Eheim Jager 150 W in my 65 gallon tank. In its instructions it says to keep it vertical. I've always put my heaters diagonally or horizontally in my tanks previously. Will this do fine in my setup vertically?

I have an Eheim 2217 filter - the intake is on the left side corner of the tank, and the spray bar/output is on the right short wall of the tank. I put the heater on the right back corner, thinking the spray bar would assure that all was being distributed nicely. Does that sound OK?

Right now the tank is completely empty other than water, equipment, and substrate.


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## Nodalizer

If it says put it vertically, put it vertically.

More then likely it has something to do with the way it monitors water tempreture or some safety feature in the heater.


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## prov356

This is a common question with these heaters. Also some debate as to whether they're fully submersible. What does it say about that in the instructions? Some older models were supposedly not fully submersible. Eheim now owns these, so now they're 'Eheim' jagers. The Eheim Jagers are fully submersible. You may have an older Ebo Jager that was not, so that would be the reason for the requirement to keep it vertical. Although some claim it truly was fully submersible and they used it that way with no problems. It gets confusing. How old is your heater and what does it say in the instructions about it being submersible?

I did find this on one retailer site:



> _*Eheim *Jager Automatic Aquarium Heaters
> 
> *New and improved design is now fully submersible!* _


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## PfunMo

There are points that I really dislike about heaters of this type. The control shaft has to go throught the seal on top. Whether they are termed fully submersible or not, they have a potential problem.

When new, this seal may be a nice flexible rubber type seal and works quite well. But we all know what happens to rubber things when they age and are heated and cooled a number of times. They get brittle! At some point, this seal gets brittle and as you turn the control shaft, the seal begins to leak. As the water gets inside the tube, it can do a couple things. It may run harmlessly to the bottom of the tube if mounted vertically. If mounted horizonally, it has a much greater chance of winding up in the controls where the electronics are found.

Mounting vertically may make the heater last longer before total failure is obvious.

A heater located in a corner may have a better chance of not getting good circulation but it is not likely to be a big problem if the area around it is clear. Heated water will rise to be replaced by cooler water so heaters do have a way of creating their own small current. Ever notice the current in a pan of water on the stove? Same idea with less heat.


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## nodima

I keep reading about these failures, and design "flaws" and it is starting to make me concerned and second guess myself. Yet, I've standardized on E-J heaters for almost 20 years now (still have some greenies) and have run them submerged, horizontal, as well as submerged AND horizontal. I started doing this before the internet said you could not do this. :lol:

All that said and done, there does not seem to be any difference in performance one orientation or the other, especially if placed near a current source such as a filter intake or output.

Cheers

(Hoping this post is not the equivalent of whistling past the graveyard)


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## PfunMo

I've got to agree with Nodima on heaters. It seems to be hard to get a good idea of what they will do other than trying them. Some heater run forever while some of the same brand and type seem to die way too early.


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## Nodalizer

I would do what the manufacturer says.

I know when I worked for an electrical company that designed these sorts of heaters we would get people complaining of problems and most of the time it was because they wouldn;t do the instuctions.

Reasons why it would be asked to be put vertical include:

The location of the temostats has taken into account that the heater is going to be vertical, the thermostat might take the extra upheat from the heater when calculating when to turn on, placing the heater on more of an angle might make the heater not switch on and off at the right times like the people who make the heater had intended.

There could be a outter seal that they are trying to keep algae away from and placing it vertical stops light from getting on this seal (they might have incorporated a lip to stop this).

There are many many other possible thoughts as to why they have asked you to place it vertical, but remember you bought the heater for one reason or another, if you do not trust that the people that make the heater know what they are talking about, then you need to buy a different brand that you trust more.


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## Deeda

Tim gave great advice on questioning the age of the heater you are using and also on consulting the instructions provided with the heater.

On the newer Eheim Jager heaters that have the red calibration ring rather than the blue button on top to recalibrate the heater, the safety instructions specifically state the maximum immersion depth is 0.5m or 19.68 inches. This probably has something to do with testing done to prevent the failure of the seal used to make the heater submersible.

Though the instructions also state the heater should be mounted vertically and in a place where the water flow is brisk, I would guess that as long as you maintain the above recommendations you should be fine.

I do not know if this only applies to the new models but you could always contact Eheim by email to ask if this applies to all their submersible heaters manufactured in the last few years.


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## prov356

*Nodalizer*

Calm down man. Let us explore it a bit, eh? We just want to know why.


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## Nodalizer

Heh, I am not over excited or upset at all. 

I was offering some reasons why it would be saying to put it vertical. And some in trade experience of what not listening can do is all.

Why? because I felt I wasn't explaining myself enough when I said "If it says put it vertically, put it vertically. " at the top of this thread.


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## nodima

while those reasons may be valid, I suspect the "truth" is more likely to be a CYA effort on the part of attorneys. I seem to recall that the non submerging label was mandated by a regulation agency in Canada maybe.

I'd guess most of the issues with heaters probably stem from improper use - such as being left on while the tank water level was dropped during a water change.

I do check my heaters regularly, looking for evidence of water inside the tubes etc. Until such a time as I notice signs like that or another failure, I'll stick with what has worked for me.


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## PfunMo

> We just want to know why


That is for sure. We would all like to know why but I'm afraid most of us will have to wait. I also wanted to know RIGHT NOW!! I'm running totally out of patience with waiting.

What Nodalizer says about the design makes good sense. I'm sure there is quite a lot of thought put into how the things should work and it must frustrate a designer no end to see it misused.

I assume most of us have seen the cartoon about the different views of designing a swing? Makes sense that the same happens with heaters!


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## Nodalizer

nodima said:


> while those reasons may be valid, I suspect the "truth" is more likely to be a CYA effort on the part of attorneys. I seem to recall that the non submerging label was mandated by a regulation agency in Canada maybe.
> 
> I'd guess most of the issues with heaters probably stem from improper use - such as being left on while the tank water level was dropped during a water change.
> 
> I do check my heaters regularly, looking for evidence of water inside the tubes etc. Until such a time as I notice signs like that or another failure, I'll stick with what has worked for me.


Yep, that did happen. Though it was because they were not really up to scratch. A lot of forums were saying "they DO work underwater they just were not allowed to say they would", but the case is they actually failed in the tests, so thats why they said not submersable.

I guess I was assuming this heater does says its submersable for someone to be submersing it.

Although I do get your point that because of the last problem they may have left the vertical part in there either by mistake (forgot to remove it) or as a just incase being they know the old ones did fail.


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## magpie

Wow, lots of response and interesting discussion. I figured there must be a good reason...

It is fully submersible and says so on the instructions, but also on the outside of the box - my google searches for Eheim Jager heater questions seemed to be based on that, so they have resolved it at least with the newer models.

OK, so what do you all think is the best placement for a heater in my tank then? Middle back of the tank between the input/output? Middle of the far right wall under the spray bar?

The circulation should be good, as that filter is rated for a bigger tank, I think up to 159 gallons.

Thanks for the input and discussion... like I said, my past heaters all did horizontal/diagonal no problem. It surprised me to read that in the instructions (happy I actually read the instructions...)


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## prov356

I've seen too many 'bad' instructions from different pieces of aquarium hardware to get too concerned with following anything in them to the letter. I'd lay it horizontally near a filter intake unless the manufacturer could give me a good reason not to other than 'they said so in the instructions'. Why not give them a call.


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## nodima

Placement - find a place close to either the filter intake or output that allows you to hide the heater. I don't like looking at equipment, so I put em in a place with current that is out of normal view.


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## magpie

I guess it would make sense to have it near the intake as it would then be dispersed more evenly by the spraybar/output?

I agree with hiding it, which is why I prefer not to put it directly under the spraybar, as it will be visible on that side panel of the tank - the spraybar is high enough that it's not obstructing any views, but putting the heater there would.

EDIT: newbie forum question completely unrelated - is there a "User CP" or somewhere to quickly find the threads that I started or responded in? I can't seem to find one anywhere.


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## prov356

> EDIT: newbie forum question completely unrelated - is there a "User CP" or somewhere to quickly find the threads that I started or responded in? I can't seem to find one anywhere.


Go into your profile using the link in the upper right or click on the 'Profile' buttion in one of your posts and then the 'Find all posts by...' link.


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## magpie

Strange... when I click on my name in my posts, it just puts my username surrounded by the code for "bold" in the quick reply box. When I click profile in the upper right, it takes me to my email, password, location, signature, etc...

Different for me on a Mac maybe? Or am I doing something wrong?


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## prov356

> Strange... when I click on my name in my posts, it just puts my username surrounded by the code for "bold" in the quick reply box.


That's normal. It's used wheh you want to direct a post to another member.



> When I click profile in the upper right, it takes me to my email, password, location, signature, etc...


That's normal too. Right under total posts and posts per day there's a link that says "find all posts by magpie" that will take you here.


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## prov356

Ooops, sorry, click 'Profile' button in one of your posts, not the upper right, my bad.


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## magpie

Got it- see the profile button now- lower left in the post. Thanks.


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## Fishy_Cichlid

Just got a Eheim Jager 3619 today, 300W 600-10001 for my 165G which I am setting up. On the instruction part, it says -

Aquarium heater
1. With thermo-safety control (auto shut-off)
2. Made from special stable glass
3. Precise temperature regulation
4. Fully submersible (waterproof)
5. On/Off indicator light
6. Extra long cable of 170 cm
7. Including clamp with 2 suction cups
8. Quality and safety "Made in Germany"
9. Suitable for fresh and marine water

On the safety instructions in the brochure it says, besides other things - Risk of overheating :
Water level must never be below minimum mark (3) on the housing. Max. immersion depth 0.5m.

In the part, "taking into operation" it says - Mount the Thermostatic heater with double suction cup holder (5) vertically in the aquarium, fixing it in a place where water flow is brisk (filter outlets/vents)

ps - It also says in the instruction on it - that it has "Double sealing "


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## magpie

Yes, I'm moving it back to the spray bar area, as my temperature is less consistent now that it's by the intake. Spraybar side of tank is warmer, intake side is cooler, and heater is running more.


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