# Pseudotropheus soccolofi problem.



## SonnyBunz (Jul 27, 2008)

I have 7 Malawi's in total and 1 of them is an Pseudotropheus soccolofi, it would appear that he has a bit of an attitude problem and has made one half of the aquarium his own!

He isn't the biggest but certainly has the biggest attitude and upon arriving he quickly went for the biggest yellow Lab and kicked him out of his cave and made it his own.

Now I actually really like him and he has a great personality being the only one that will come out of his cave and come up to the glass and follow my finger around the tank trying to take a bite out of it.

I really don't want to get rid of him but it would appear his colour has segregated him from the rest. He is all alone so show I find another of similar colour to keep him occupied? How can I tame the beast?


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

What size tank is this?

What are the remaining 6 species?


----------



## SonnyBunz (Jul 27, 2008)

100cm x 50cm x 50cm (180ltr tank) and I have 4 yellow lab's and 2 orange zebra's (I think that is what they are called) The zebra's and yellow lab's get on really well but I feel for Bluey he seems left out to me.


----------



## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

buy him some females. That otta distract him from the other fish. He will just want to breed with the females.


----------



## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

SonnyBunz said:


> 100cm x 50cm x 50cm (180ltr tank) and I have 4 yellow lab's and 2 orange zebra's (I think that is what they are called) The zebra's and yellow lab's get on really well but I feel for Bluey he seems left out to me.


In US dimensions its is basically about 45g with a footprint of 39x18. This is the source of your problem. The tank is too small for the atitudes of socolofi and red (even if they look orange) zebras. As these fish reach sexual maturity a male of either species could easily claim the entire tank as his territory. Actually, even the females of these two species (especially the socolofi, they can be more aggressive than the males) can claim that size territory for themselves.

If you like the blue (I know I do-I have a breeding group of 6 socolofi) I would seriously think about getting rid of the zebras and staying with a small group of the labs (3-4) and a get a couple more socolofi. In the long run, you will have to get a larger tank (55g should do nicely). You will want to try to end up with only 1 male socolofi and a pair of females. The sexes of the labs won't matter.

You could go with the labs and zebras (same ratios as the socolofi), but that is a lot of orangy-yellow and they with interbreed like crazy. You would not be able to sell or even give away any fry produced in that tank.


----------



## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

MalawiLover said:


> In US dimensions its is basically about 45g with a footprint of 39x18. This is the source of your problem. The tank is too small for the atitudes of socolofi and red (even if they look orange) zebras. As these fish reach sexual maturity a male of either species could easily claim the entire tank as his territory. Actually, even the females of these two species (especially the socolofi, they can be more aggressive than the males) can claim that size territory for themselves.
> .


Socolofi can be kept in 3ft tanks. I know of a few situations where there have been species only tanks.

I think you should ditch the red zebra's. Keep the yellow labs and add some more female socolofi. I think you could end up being fine


----------



## SonnyBunz (Jul 27, 2008)

What does a female look like? Everytime I ask people in aquariums they say it's hard to tell and not sure if they are females or not.


----------



## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

Socolofi are a monomorphic species. The sexes look identical. The only realy way to tell them apart is to vent them (look up their skirts). Unfortunately this is very hard to do when they are young (which is all you find in pet stores). T

he easiest way to get the right mix is to get a group of 4 or five juveniles and let them sort it out themselves. The females can be easily spotted once they start to breed, as only the female will hold the eggs in her mouth. Luckily, socolfi (at least in my experience) breed fairly early (I had females holding at just over 2 inches).


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

MalawiLover said:


> In US dimensions its is basically about 45g with a footprint of 39x18. This is the source of your problem. The tank is too small for the atitudes of socolofi and red (even if they look orange) zebras. As these fish reach sexual maturity a male of either species could easily claim the entire tank as his territory. Actually, even the females of these two species (especially the socolofi, they can be more aggressive than the males) can claim that size territory for themselves.


MalawiLover is right. Your tank is on the small side for keeping the species you are trying to keep. As they mature, things will only get worse.

I would suggest restocking the tank and getting rid of the red zebra and socolofi. You just don't have the space for them.


----------



## SonnyBunz (Jul 27, 2008)

I don't just want Yellow Lab's in my tank. Anyone know what I can mix the Lab's with? I've regrettably put the Zebras and blue monster up for sale


----------



## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

Pseudotropheus demasoni are a very popular mix with labs, and can be done in your size. The only caveat is that to be successful with the dems, you have to keep them in a group of at least 10 (12 being the recomended number). They are highly aggressive to their own kind and smaller groups will not allow the intended target to get "lost in the crowd" and get away.

Once balanced, this is a realy great mix.


----------



## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I think you could probably have a breeding group of M.cyaneorhabdos (maingano) in your tank with the yellow labs. They don't get that big, or demasoni maybe.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I would advise a minimum of a 4 ft tank for mature cyaneorhabdos. :thumb:

The demasoni are a good idea, or you could go with a smaller group of one of the Cynotilapia afra variants. (You'd get more colour from the group of demasoni with the Yellow labs, though!)


----------



## Moutralewn (Aug 27, 2008)

...also have in mind that you might experience crossbreeding between socolofis and yellow labs...and i don't think you want hybrids in your tank


----------



## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

Moutralewn said:


> ...also have in mind that you might experience crossbreeding between socolofis and yellow labs...and i don't think you want hybrids in your tank


Cross breeding is technically possible with any two mouthbrooding species. However, as long as you have enough females for each species (especially the more dominant species-the socolofi) it would be unlikely.


----------



## Moutralewn (Aug 27, 2008)

MalawiLover said:


> Cross breeding is technically possible with any two mouthbrooding species. However, as long as you have enough females for each species (especially the more dominant species-the socolofi) it would be unlikely.


True. Technically is possible with all species. With some is easier and with others more difficult. But we are talking about a relatively small tank with 2 species that easily crossbreed.

Even if we have many fems, there is still a large risk.

IMO, it is best to combine Yellow Labs with Ps Acei rather than socolofis. They have similar coloration and no chances of crossbreeding.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Which two are you saying have similar coloration and good chances of cross-breeding?


----------



## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

Moutralewn said:


> IMO, it is best to combine Yellow Labs with Ps Acei rather than socolofis. They have similar coloration and no chances of crossbreeding.


Why do you believe the socolofi would be so much more likely to cros with yellow labs than the acei?

Besides acei will not work in the OP's 3ft tank. the socolofi can work in a 3fter (not optimal, but better off than acei.

I have both socolofi and labs in several of my tanks and there has never been a single case of them crossing. Actually I haven't really heard of crosses between those two species at all.


----------



## bac3492 (Jul 25, 2008)

MalawiLover said:


> I have both socolofi and labs in several of my tanks and there has never been a single case of them crossing. Actually I haven't really heard of crosses between those two species at all.


neither have i


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I've not heard of any instances of crossbreeding between socolofi and yellow labs, either, but as we've said, anytime you are absent males or females of any species, they can and will crossbreed with another species.

With that being said, I wouldn't advise keeping socolofi in a 3 ft tank as mature adults, unless it was a single species tank...And even then, it might not work long term.


----------



## Moutralewn (Aug 27, 2008)

DJRansome said:


> Which two are you saying have similar coloration and good chances of cross-breeding?


None


----------



## Moutralewn (Aug 27, 2008)

MalawiLover said:


> Why do you believe the socolofi would be so much more likely to cros with yellow labs than the acei?


Because in the 90% of the hobbyists that I know (in Greece) who combined socolofi's and yellow labs, they crossbread



MalawiLover said:


> Besides acei will not work in the OP's 3ft tank. the socolofi can work in a 3fter (not optimal, but better off than acei.


I won't totally disagree in that, cause Acei's tend to grow large and eventually the might not feel that good (in the long run)



MalawiLover said:


> I have both socolofi and labs in several of my tanks and there has never been a single case of them crossing. Actually I haven't really heard of crosses between those two species at all.


To tell you the truth I haven't read in forums other than Greek ones, crosses between socolofi's and Yellow Labs. In Greek forums though it's a common thing. 
I've witnessed it myself, several times but not in my tanks.


----------



## SonnyBunz (Jul 27, 2008)

OK I am going to get a bigger tank (in a few months, money is tight at the moment) but someone is offering me a male and female Socolofi to go with my male. Is this a good idea?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No. Socolofi is one of those that you want to be sure you have only one male and lots of females. Wait until you get your new tank and THEN add females only.


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Your male/female ratios are very, very important with these fish. Having two males to one female even in a larger, appropriate sized tank could be disastrous.


----------



## SonnyBunz (Jul 27, 2008)

But how do you separate male from female? She says she has one male and one female then I read they look identical.
Mine looks almost identical to this guy







except that it is almost like he/she is developing an almost redish colour towards the back near his back fin. Is this photo a male or female?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You vent them to determine sex. Appearance is identical but sex organs are different. You have to net the fish, hold it in your hand and examine the underside. There is an article in the library explaining how this is done.


----------



## SonnyBunz (Jul 27, 2008)

DJRansome said:


> You vent them to determine sex. Appearance is identical but sex organs are different. You have to net the fish, hold it in your hand and examine the underside. There is an article in the library explaining how this is done.


Thanks for the advice. I have just netted him and he is male because his underside looks like this


----------

