# My DIY filter look okay? Am I doing something wrong?



## zachaos (Nov 14, 2013)

My tank *SHOULD* be cycled after 8 months... but my nitrates are just horrid every three days.. everything else is okay thanks to Purigen only... I am thinking it's my system.. I had to buy a clearance "hang on the back" filter to put my purigen in because its not showing any difference when it is in my sump..

Do I need a better/larger pump? I only have a 55 Gallon with about 40-50 fish.. Been a problem after three water changes I am soon moving everything in a 75 gallon.. But am keeping the 55 for a fry tank... Numbers were fine when I started the tank, did a fishless cycle for a month..

Use: Purgien, Chemi-pure, Stress Zyme, Fluval bacteria cleaner (Just started has no reviews but seemed promising for over crowded tanks and cichlids.. goldfish etc.) Trying Stability by Searchem this week. API water conditoner, Rift recipe from here, Aqua. Salt.

Water changes with heated RO WATER, add needed minerals before added to tank.. and all other chemicals to make the water perfect.

Pictures of my setup:

Pipes go through the wall to the tank from a guest closet. http://ge.tt/3Vdketf1/v/0?c

Recently added these caps to the ends of the hose to help spread water distribution. http://ge.tt/3Vdketf1/v/2?c

The whole setup in the closet, i swear it doesn't look as yellow in person. (red cups are used to make the drawers higher) I use a Aqueon 1700A pump. [1] http://ge.tt/3Vdketf1/v/3?c and [2] http://ge.tt/3Vdketf1/v/4?c

Top drawer media: Reticulated black foam, white floss, blue bonded with white (x2), white floss, white pad (from petsolutions.com.. has the consistancy of the rough side of a kicthen sponge but 1 inch thic.. still catches a lot of waste even after traveling through the other layers) http://ge.tt/3Vdketf1/v/5?c

Second Drawer:

Top view, which just shows sponges used as bio balls.. kind of dirty. Which is good? http://ge.tt/3Vdketf1/v/6?c

Separated by egg crate is the second batch of bio media, I got this to replace the sponges.. its Pumice rock or aka searchem matrix. ;-/ http://ge.tt/3Vdketf1/v/7?c

Egg crate again separates this White foam under the searchem rocks... that is still gathering waste..? http://ge.tt/3Vdketf1/v/8?c

And something I don't know is doing anything... It's called Chemi-Pure.. Water is super clear.. but couldn't tell anything else. (The egg crate underneath it is to stop the bags from getting stuck on the drawer holes i drilled) http://ge.tt/3Vdketf1/v/9?c

Bottom drawer isn't used.

If you have any questions PLEASE ask, I would like to enjoy my tank a bit more but if two water changes a week is needed i'm fine with it.


----------



## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

How large are the 40-50 fish in the tank? My guess is the tank is way overstocked, and you need to do more frequent, and larger water changes. How many changes a week do you do, and how large are they?

One observation is that a lot of issues resolve themselves by keeping a tank with manageable bioload - most of the chemical additives and extractors you are using are band aids over the real problem (too much bioload)

FWIW - your picture site takes forever to load - it would be much easier for us if you embedded them directly in your posting. Photobucket is one site that allows you to do this.


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Have you tested your tap water for nitrates?

What percentage of water are you changing at one time?


----------



## jeffkro (Feb 13, 2014)

Nitrates are what your filter turns ammonia into so if you are getting a zero nitrite and zero ammonia reading then your filter is keeping up with the bio load. You need to do larger and or more frequent water changes.


----------



## zachaos (Nov 14, 2013)

nodima said:


> How large are the 40-50 fish in the tank?
> FWIW - your picture site takes forever to load - it would be much easier for us if you embedded them directly in your posting. Photobucket is one site that allows you to do this.


They are around 2-3 inches.. some two are a little larger (see in pics below- orange one and albino) .. which is why we bought the 75 gallon. And thank you for telling me!



Deeda said:


> Have you tested your tap water for nitrates
> 
> What percentage of water are you changing at one time?


Yes, I had very high Nitrates before out of the Tap water, which is why I use filtered RO water now.. So everything is 0ppm now or very low. And right now we do about 15 gallons twice a week so 30 gallons total every 7 days.



jeffkro said:


> Nitrates are what your filter turns ammonia into so if you are getting a zero nitrite and zero ammonia reading then your filter is keeping up with the bio load. You need to do larger and or more frequent water changes.


The nitrites and ammonia levels were high until I added Searchem Purigen in the hang on the back filter. So i'm thinking it may be a little too much fish.

*So *I think it is a good idea the tank may be over stocked. Aren't the tanks suppose to be crowded? I'm not trying to disagree with anyone just honestly curious. Also another question that is still bugging me is why did the Searchem Purigen only start doing its job after I had to buy a hang on the back filter? Why wouldn't it work in my setup? 

**Should* be in correct order.*

Pipes through wall in guest room closet: 









Hose in filter drawer with drilled end caps:









Whole setup in closet view:









Top drawer:









Reticulated black foam, white floss, blue bonded with white (x2), white floss, white pad (from petsolutions.com.. has the consistancy of the rough side of a kicthen sponge but 1 inch thic.. still catches a lot of waste even after traveling through the other layers)

*Second Drawer*

Sponges used as bio on top: 









After those there is egg crate where Searchem Matrix (Pumis) is kept:









Again egg crate under that, Added a white pad.. which still is collecting waste despite all pads in top drawer:









Under that there are some bags of chemi pure.. which is what I was using for chemical filtration since the beginning.. (I know some don't like chemical filtration.. I just don't like carbon): 









Sideview of all Bio-media.. Do i have too much? Should I remove the white pad?









*Current home*

Front View:









Side View:









Back side View:









*Future home*

Front view: 









Side view::


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the additional info regarding your tap water and fixing the pics.

It is often suggested that overstocking the tank can help cut down on aggression issues because there isn't just one fish that gets bullied, especially with Mbuna cichlids. This does often lead to water quality problems because nitrates can build up relatively fast and larger/more frequent water changes are usually a quick solution.

Are you testing the water yourself or is your local fish store doing it for you? I'm curious what your tap water test for nitrate is actually. Also, are you testing for GH (hardness) and KH (alkalinity)? I understand you are using RO water because of the nitrates in your tap water but I hope we can figure out a way you can stop messing with the need to add 'stuff' to 'fix' your problems.

I really think you are overstocked for a 55G tank and even upgrading to a 75G with your current stock will be too much, at least in my opinion.


----------



## MrSchertz (Apr 22, 2014)

With all those numerous filter pads is where your problem in my opinion is. There is a ton of surface area on those pads and with that a lot of your beneficial bacteria is. If those pads are thrown away and replaced it will cause fluctuations as your describing. The system has to catch up to its previous state to work efficiently. You could stay with coarser filter pads and rinse them with aquarium water you have drained from your water changes. Lowering your bio-load would help as well. If you did both of these I think you would like your results.


----------



## zachaos (Nov 14, 2013)

Deeda said:


> Thanks for the additional info regarding your tap water and fixing the pics.
> 
> It is often suggested that overstocking the tank can help cut down on aggression issues because there isn't just one fish that gets bullied, especially with Mbuna cichlids. This does often lead to water quality problems because nitrates can build up relatively fast and larger/more frequent water changes are usually a quick solution.
> 
> ...


Some are fry (12-15 maybe) we bought for $1 from a breeder who was toning down his load of tanks. We plan to sale these when they are larger and they will be staying in the 55.

Well for the past three days the Nitrates have stayed at 30 ppm, which isn't great but better than before I bought the stability and cleaner. Chemicals are not the answer, but it's helped some. The stability is just a bacterial supplement.

Yea, I had an Master test kit and the numbers were off the wall. So that wasn't for me. I purchased 100 Tetra test strips on Amazon for 20$. Ever since the readings line up with what the pet store says (we bring a sample in every now and then just to see if we're on the same page.)

Chart that came with the kit:










My RO water shows as followed when testing it before I put anything in the water:

Nitrate: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Total Hardness: 0 ppm
Chlorine: 1.0 ppm
Total Alkalinity: 0 ppm
PH: 6.8

Right now my tank's number are as follows:

Nitrate: 30ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Total Hardness: 250 ppm (Almost in color as 300ppm on chart)
Chlorine: 0 ppm
Total Alkalinity: 300 ppm
PH: 8.2

Still looking for your help if you're offering. 



MrSchertz said:


> With all those numerous filter pads is where your problem in my opinion is. There is a ton of surface area on those pads and with that a lot of your beneficial bacteria is. If those pads are thrown away and replaced it will cause fluctuations as your describing. The system has to catch up to its previous state to work efficiently. You could stay with coarser filter pads and rinse them with aquarium water you have drained from your water changes. Lowering your bio-load would help as well. If you did both of these I think you would like your results.


Thanks for your response, we actually thought that might have been the case as well and did some research on this forum and found out that some users wash theres every two weeks gently and replace what is no longer good anymore.

Maybe we are still doing this wrong though so i'll explain to you our routine:

We only use three sheets of the thin white pad and we gently wash all (Just to get dirt/waste color to go away) of our pads in a bucket of de-chlorinated with some bacteria supplement of some kind once a month, after a month we replace some and keep others depending on how they are looking. The blue pads last a good bit, and the reticulated black foam is very coarse and sturdy as well are the bottom white thick pad that has the texture of a scrubby side of a sponge we have had these two for about two months.

So lowering our bio load and not washing them in water that has some bio supplement would be better?

*wait's for your response*

Thanks in advance everyone!


----------



## zachaos (Nov 14, 2013)

I took too much time scanning my actual chart as the one above does not include Chlorine. Anyway here is my actual chart:










In anyones opinion when is it definitely time for a water change when having cichlids? The chart above says up to 40ppm, but of course i'd feel better knowing personal opinions.

Thanks everyone!


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I think that if you can rinse out most of the dirt in your thin white pads you should be fine. I've used this method for the white pads in my canister filters without any problems. I don't see the need for adding a bacterial supplement to the bucket when you wash the pads.


----------



## nodima (Oct 3, 2002)

Deeda said:


> I think that if you can rinse out most of the dirt in your thin white pads you should be fine. I've used this method for the white pads in my canister filters without any problems. I don't see the need for adding a bacterial supplement to the bucket when you wash the pads.


+1 As long as you don't clean all of the pads at same time - stagger the cleanings weekly or so. I'm still concerned about how many different chemicals/treatments you seem to add to your tanks. I have 3 larger tanks, and the only outside chemicals they get are water conditioner and Epsom salts. When I hear about folks having issues with tanks and using all sorts of additional chemical supplements, I begin to wonder what side effects are occurring from the reactions of the various chemicals.

I'd also advocate that you up your water changes to 50% volume twice a week as long as your tank stays overstocked. I seem to recall some discussions where a single 50% change in a week does more good than a pair of 25% changes in a week.


----------



## dlp40 (Mar 7, 2014)

I agree with nodima, after almost 20 years of keeping Africans, 50 % water change (WC) at least weekly would benefit you more then the 15 gallons twice each week your currently doing. With the load your carrying though, I'm inclined to say nodima hit the nail on the head with two 50% WC per week is needed. The nitrates produced from all of the waste in your system will continue to creep up if you continue your small water changes.

That said, As long as your willing to do the extra water changes, I see nothing wrong with your filter setup. On the plus side of more water changes, if you do the two 50% WC's each week, I see no reason that in a short time you wouldn't be able to get rid of all of the chemical filtration your using. 
Good luck.


----------



## zachaos (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks @deeda, @nodima, and @dip40. I'll update this post in about a week or two if incase anyone is still interested.


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Please, definitely keep us updated on this. It's always good to see what does and does not work.


----------



## praveentnair (Jan 4, 2014)

why don't you try aquaponics to reduce nitrates? just throw some pothos in a HOB and see if it is reducing the nitrates. I have seen many people giving success stories and I just started experimenting it. I guess it will take few weeks. or months to see a change, but i hope eventually it will reduce the nitrates considerable. I bought 2 pots of pothos from walmart and cleaned its roots and put it in a box. only roots are in water. I am already seeing new roots growing.


----------



## MrSchertz (Apr 22, 2014)

Also,those dish scouring pads that are multicolored are nitrate factories as well. I had the same setup on a 300 gallon tank a long time ago. I went the same route you did to save a buck. When I would clean out those pads they would be filthy with all kinds of junk.


----------

