# Tank nightmare



## drewmaen (Apr 28, 2013)

I woke up Monday morning to the sound of a grinding filter. I went down to see my tank and noticed that it was empty and 100 gal. Of water was dispersed throughout my basement. The fish were pooled up in the tank in the few areas that held little water.

I was able to rescue all 30 cichlids and place them in a five gallon bucket with a heater and aerator. I had no place else to put them so I contacted my local pet store and they said they would take them.

I inspected the tank and noticed that one of the seams where the glass connects split. I am now looking of a tank that is 60 x 18. What a [email protected]&@& mess!!!!


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

What a nightmare! Any chance the tank was still under warranty?

Also, the number one reason for the silicone seals in glass tanks to fail is that the stand did not support the glass properly and that created stress. Before I would put another tank on there, I would have a very close look at the stand and how it is set up.

All the best!


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## drewmaen (Apr 28, 2013)

The stand is rock solid, I believe it was the tank. It was an old tank and I was thinking of resealing it but I really didn't want to break the tank down. I guess it is partly my fault for not doing it. The stand is solid oak reinforced with a metal frame underneath. This will give me a chance to get a 125 high tank and maybe get peacocks instead of mbuna.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

It is not so much a question of the stand being solid, but if it supports the entire perimeter of the tank evenly. Worst case scenario: only the middle of the tank is supported, the whole thing bows, and eventually the seems give way.

In my experience glass tanks don't fail just because they are old. My oldest tank is a 125G Allglass tank dated 5 March 1990. I don't trust this tank any more or less than my newer tanks, and if set up correctly, it will quite possibly outlast me.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

I know how you feel, I've had this happen to me too! It's now my worst fear, a repeat!

Fortunately I woke in the morning to find my tank only half way drained overnight from one corner seal. I also was able to save all the fish & had no choice but to give them away free to the LFS. My tank was also very old--the previous owner had it 5+ years and I had it 5+ years. I bought the stand from the previous owner too, so the 10+ year old tank sat on the same stand all that time. I sort of thought it was just that it was an old tank, never considered the stand. In fact, my new tank is sitting on the same stand now, so I hope it's not the stand!


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

As a kid we had 3 tanks.. standard 55's all split in the same corner seam.. only thing we didn't replace was the stand...(coincidence? I don't think sooooo....  )


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

fmueller said:


> What a nightmare! Any chance the tank was still under warranty?
> 
> Also, the number one reason for the silicone seals in glass tanks to fail is that the stand did not support the glass properly and that created stress. Before I would put another tank on there, I would have a very close look at the stand and how it is set up.
> 
> All the best!


Great point.

What I do to help support the tank squarely on the stand is to place a 1/2 inch sheet of styrofoam between the stand and the base of the tank.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

the foam is useless if its one of the standard tanks with the tank sitting on the trim instead of the glass.


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

I am a firm believer in styrofoam under the tank. If the stand is not perfectly flat, then the tank will only contact the high points in the stand's surface profile. For example, if three corners of the stand are perfectly level with respect to each other but the fourth corner is 1/8" high, then the tank sets on the high corner and the diagonal corner. It will lean on one of the other corners, with slight pressure you can get it to rock back and forth. When water is added, the two non contact corners will sag until they make contact. By sagging it creates a force that pulls the high corner and its diagonal corner apart. Styrofoam between the stand and the tank aleviates this stress because the bottom surface of the styrofoam conforms to the stand's surface profile while the top surface of the styrofoam conforms to the framework of the tank; eliminating the stress created by an uneven stand surface profile. The thicker the styrofoam the better it works.

Joe


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

skurj said:


> the foam is useless if its one of the standard tanks with the tank sitting on the trim instead of the glass.


Can you clarify what you meant with 'sitting on the trim' ?


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Styrofoam works great. I could not have described it better than Joe. However, if you have a stand that only supports the outer perimeter of the tank, there might not be enough space for the styrofoam to work - but it's more of a question what stand you have than what tank. If your stand has a flat table top, you can always use styrofoam to support the entire tank bottom, even if the bottom frame on your tank is lower than the bottom glass.

Below is a common Allglass pine stand for a 75G. With that kind of stand, styrofoam will not work, because the stand only supports the outer perimeter of the tank, and does not have a flat table top.


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

chopsteeks said:


> skurj said:
> 
> 
> > the foam is useless if its one of the standard tanks with the tank sitting on the trim instead of the glass.
> ...


Yes, all of my tanks, the bottom trim is what rests on the stand. Its not flat bottomed so if you used foam it would only be the outside trim sitting on the foam.


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

skurj said:


> Yes, all of my tanks, the bottom trim is what rests on the stand. Its not flat bottomed so if you used foam it would only be the outside trim sitting on the foam.


Thanks for the clarification skurj.

Now, the way I look at this, the foam needs to be only on the outer edges as opposed to the whole bottom.

Let us look at the stand fmueller had posted above. The construction and design of the stand was to have the 'trim' or outer edges of the tank sit on the 2x4. The rest of the stand will not support the whole bottom, as the tank need only to support the edges.

Like the stand I have on my Oceanic 125 gallon, the matching stand that came with it when I purchased this set, only the outer edges of this tank sits on the stand.

So, if there is a fault on a stand, if the part of the stand that supports the outer edges is not flushed causing part of the bottom of the tank to not sit squarely, this can cause 'stress' on the tank.

A styrofoam placed between the bottom of the tank and the stand will correct this fault.

I can be wrong but this is the way I look at it.


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Chopsteeks,

That is exactly what I was describing.(or at least trying to describe)

Joe


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## atreis (Jan 15, 2013)

There have actually been arguments that solid foam over the whole bottom can end up putting upward pressure on the middle of the bottom glass and cause problems (if the stand has a solid top, not an open like the one pictured).

For acrylic tanks, the whole bottom should be supported. They're designed differently.


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## phillydubs (Jul 23, 2012)

I feel your pain!! My 55 gallon discus set up leaked on me last week and it was a mess! Thankfully I saved all the fish and had a lot of water left. I set up a new 72 now with no issues. Why didnt you just save the filter media and all and go get a new tank?


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## drewmaen (Apr 28, 2013)

phillydubs said:


> I feel your pain!! My 55 gallon discus set up leaked on me last week and it was a mess! Thankfully I saved all the fish and had a lot of water left. I set up a new 72 now with no issues. Why didnt you just save the filter media and all and go get a new tank?


I saved everything but the tank. I couldn't find a tank that would fit my stand (60 x 18). Unfortunately in order to save the fish I had to give them away.

Question regarding the styrofoam, I have a stand like the one pictured so should I use styrofoam. Furthermore, would I be able to place a 1/4 or 1/2 inch piece of plywood on the stand then place styrofoam on top of the plywood?

Thanks!


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

drewmaen said:


> Question regarding the styrofoam, I have a stand like the one pictured so should I use styrofoam. Furthermore, would I be able to place a 1/4 or 1/2 inch piece of plywood on the stand then place styrofoam on top of the plywood?


There are often strong contradicting opinions about this issue (like many other issues in this hobby). My tank has a raised bottom (where only the perimeter sits on the stand) and is on a metal stand. The manufacturer will only honour the warranty if you place a piece of plywood on a metal stand with a sheet of styrofoam on top. That's how I have mine set up.

A previous tank I had was on a wood stand. I still put styrofoam down but trimmed it so that it only covered the perimeter.


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

One issue I have with styrofoam is the unsightly styrofoam visible along the bottom edges (this issue is not one that would prevent me from installing styrofoam.) To eliminate this visual, I trim around the edge of the stand. I keep the trim about 1/4 inch above the level of the styrofoam. On a stand that is the same size as the perimeter of the tank I have to attach the trim to the face of the cabinet or the frame in case of a metal stand. This trim also holds the styrofoam in place while you are situating the tank. If you want to put a solid top (to me 1/4" plywood, if it is visible, gives the appearance that the stand is flimsey, it is not because the strength is in the framework) on the open framework, I suggest making the top larger than the stand and attaching the trim to the top. I also make my stands 8" longer than the tank, it makes a little shelf on each end, which comes in handy. If you are concerned about putting upward pressure on the bottom of the tank located on a solid top stand, (which I am not because the center braces are recessed higher than the perimeter frame and the styrofoam doesn't compress that much) you can cut out the styrofoam directly under any center braces.

Joe


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

joescaper1 said:


> I also make my stands 8" longer than the tank, it makes a little shelf on each end, which comes in handy.


You have 8" of space beside the tank? What a waste. You could have bought a 8" longer tank! :lol:

Kidding aside, apart from a little breeding setup, my main tanks are 75G, 125G and 240G. They are all maxed out for the space that is available, meaning the 8' tank is along a wall that measures exactly 8' from a door to the corner of the room. The same holds true for the other tanks, respectively. Having 8" of space at the end of a tank would seem like pure luxury :wink:


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## joescaper1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Maybe there is something in the water in Ohio. My wife will be happy to find out that I am not a lunatic. 

Joe


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

atreis said:


> There have actually been arguments that solid foam over the whole bottom can end up putting upward pressure on the middle of the bottom glass and cause problems (if the stand has a solid top, not an open like the one pictured).
> 
> For acrylic tanks, the whole bottom should be supported. They're designed differently.


This isn't actually true. The reason the acrylic tank needs support is the material will sag if not supported, so it is an issue of material rather than design.You could say they are designed that way because of the material. There is no reason why you can put styro under a rimless glass tank and support the entire bottom. I have more than a few tanks like this. The reason that glass tanks typically have the bottom raised by trim is when the very first all glass tanks were built, broken bottoms were a problem. Typically what would happen was someone would place a tank on a grain of gravel and the point load would break the bottom. So, the bottom was raised via a trim piece to prevent this. It wasn't because glass bottoms need to be unsupported.

As to the question of styro being of benefit on a stand that has an open top, the answer to that is, yes, it does. I have 4 identical tanks on metal stands, all are rimless, all sit on styro. The contact is only around the edges, but you can see the styro has conformed to the bow in the top rail of the stand. The tanks are 48" 30s and there is a surprisingly small amount of compression. I also have a 35 gal with trim on same type of stand, also with styro. Same situation there, but again, very little compression of the white styro.


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