# Salts, Buffers and crushed coral



## irish5 (Jun 19, 2009)

I had a very interesting conversation with the owner of National Fish Pharmaceuticals yesterday. I called to order metro from them and had some questions with the applications of it. One thing led to another and I told him how I lost three fish on a water change !! I had done my water change the same for the last couple of times and nothing happened - all was good!! The very first question he asked me was if i was using salts?? I said yes and he said stop using them immediately. I asked why?? i told him which ones. He told me that espom salts (salts in general) is very harsh on a fish and actually kills the organs of the fish over time. He also said that the salt never leaves your tank and it just keeps building up. He then told me how salts were a big thing 40 years ago and that it has just growin out of control with the internet or sources pushing it for how good it is for the fish. He said he actually has heard and has seen where many people will have good tanks and a couple of weeks later they lose all there fish. He says it is because of all the salt build up in the tank. He also told me not to use buffer and get dry crushed coral and he said that it is a more stable thing for controlling your ph and then any buffer.

As for the metro treatment he said to take out the carbon and do a 25% water change and treat with the metro. He told me not to treat with metro again until day six. On day six do a 25% water change and treat again and wait til day ten to see how it goes. If you need to treat again then do it if not enjoy your fish. Then I asked him about the seven straight day treatments and a 25% water every other day and he told me to much and that metro stays in the tank for a while and I should be good with the way he told me. He did say that anything over a 100 gallons should use this treatment. He did say with smaller tanks that you should do a 25% water change and treat accordingly every day.

He also suggested metro into the food for awhile - He said it is better to treat a fish or a human from the inside out - so get into there food source.

He also said he would never use cloat because of some chemical in it that hurts and eventually kills the fish - sorry i cannot remember the chemical that he talked about.

We talked a long long time. I was very impressed - web site --- nationalfishpharm.com
If you go to the site there is actually a number you can call and ask questions about treatments and fish and tank conditions.

A couple of things

Does anybody use metro-pro or any other treatments from national fish pharmaceuticals?

I am also wondering what people thought about not adding the salt and buffer to my tank? Since he thinks a salt issue of my fish deaths

I am also wondering about the treatment plan he suggested to me. I am looking for answers.

I will say I started the treatment last night with a water change and no salts or buffers and the fish were a lot more active right away in my tank. Where before they did not seem ok but after couple of hours they were fine.

This post is not to make anybody mad - I am just looking for info and helpfully passing some good info. That is really all I wanted to do!!

I hope it was helpful!!


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

Salt didn't kill your fish unless you put too much salt and they are a salt sensitive species.
Many have used salt for extended periods of time and their fishes don't die.
The salt does leave your tank everytime you change your water.

Epsom salt isn't bad for fishes, it actually can help as a preventative measure with bloat in some cichlids and also can increase GH.
Again many people use it for these reasons and their fishes do not die.

I have used metro and it works fine.
As for the treatment plan the directions on the back should work.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

if there is one thing i have learned here, it is that opinions vary like the weather. luckily, success has as many forms as failure, and in the end, we all do better the next time. IMHO, he is wrong about epsom salt, right about metro being best ingested, and overall a really nice guy for helping you out the way he did. :thumb:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Although there may be some truth to what he's saying about the salts, he's over generalized and made a lot of assumptions. There are some who add salts indiscriminately without ever testing. And it's possible those same folks just top off and never do water changes. So, for those, the salt may build to dangerous levels over time. But, he's mistakenly lumped all 'buffer adders' into this group. The solution is not for eveyone to 'stop and never add again'. The solution is to know what you're adding, why you're adding it, and then monitor your water parameters.



> I will say I started the treatment last night with a water change and no salts or buffers and the fish were a lot more active right away in my tank. Where before they did not seem ok but after couple of hours they were fine.


The danger here is when dots get connected that shouldn't be. They may be better for a lot of reasons (like the meds) that have nothing to do with non-addition of buffers.



> He also said he would never use cloat because of some chemical in it that hurts and eventually kills the fish - sorry i cannot remember the chemical that he talked about.


Here's the MSDS on Clout. It contains malachite green which has a reputation for being hard on fish.

Here's some info on malachite green.

From the link:

_The study of the toxicity of malachite green in fish has been hard as it is heavily influenced by the water hardness, pH, temperature and amount of dissolved oxygen in water. Detailed studies have indicated that the toxicity of the chemical increases as the temperature increases or pH decreases. The effects of malachite green on fish eggs have also been tested and it has been shown that a twofold increase in the concentration of malachite green could lead up to 20 times the mortality rate in rainbow trout eggs[citation needed]. This shows that it may be extremely toxic for some species of fish and especially for fish eggs. Other effects such as carcinogenesis, mutagenesis, and reduced fertility have been reported to occur in rainbow trout. Overall, although malachite green is an extremely effective weapon against fungus and parasitic infections in fish, the chemical causes serious side effects in the fish as well._

I have Clout in my fish med chest, but it's a last resort med for me. Clout also contains metro, by the way. If choosing between using it or watching my fish die, I'd use it. My first preferred med for bloat would be Junge Parasite Clear (Prizaquantel ) which also contains metro. Some have had some success. Fortunately I've never had to test any of these drugs out, so not speaking from experience, only sharing my plan.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

lloyd said:


> IMHO, he is wrong about epsom salt, right about metro being best ingested, and overall a really nice guy for helping you out the way he did. :thumb:


I feel the same way lloyd does about this.

He sounds quite helpful, but he's wrong about the epsom salt. The only way it (or any salt) would build up in your tank is if you continued to add it but never did water changes.

And I firmly agree about getting fish to ingest the meds anytime you can do this...We often lose the ones that stop eating before we initiate treatment.


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## irish5 (Jun 19, 2009)

I thank you guys for all the helpful comments. I am very new to this trophs thing and just want to do it the right way. So i try to take in as much as possible and don't always choose hte right way of doing things cuz I did not look into info I have read. So i wanted to throw it out there get comments. hopefully more people respond and I can get more info.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Does anybody use metro-pro or any other treatments from national fish pharmaceuticals?
> 
> I am also wondering what people thought about not adding the salt and buffer to my tank? Since he thinks a salt issue of my fish deaths
> 
> I am also wondering about the treatment plan he suggested to me. I am looking for answers.





> hopefully more people respond and I can get more info.


You'll find these topics have been discussed quite a bit here. Use the 'search' icon at the top of the page and search on salt, buffers, metro, etc and you'll find a wealth of info.


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## 55gal (Jan 19, 2009)

I have been adding aquarium salt after every water change since day 1, with no ill affects

Some say by adding salt that it helps to prevents some diseases, and others say that it don't do much of anything.

The best thing to do, is to do your homework on the subject, by reading and coming to this site to get peoples opinions. then make and educated decision for yourself.

If it works for you, you know you have made the right decisions.

A well maintained tank is a happy tank. 8)


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