# question



## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

i have a 46 gallon bow front.

my current stock 
yellow lab
2 mix peacocks
2 (soon to be 1) red fin boryeli
milomo hap
red empress hap
belly crawler pike
venustus
pink convict 
jewel cichlid

well today i caught the yellow lab beating the **** out of everyone. dealing with their aggression is so hard. i know that africans do better in larger numbers, to distribute the aggression, my question is, out of my current stock what is the least amount of fish i can keep in my tank without one killing everyone?


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

i would drop everything but the lab and get it a nice harem.


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## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

hmmm....


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I agree since this is a 36" tank. The haps are too big for the tank...some of them need 72". Even peacocks I'd keep in a 48" tank. A single species of dwarf mbuna (like yellow labs...1m:4f) would be a good stock for the tank.


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## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

im not going to do that. *** had all these fish since they were pretty small.

i know the venustus and milomo will outgrow the tank. all of my fish are under 3 inches right now. and to my understanding, typically none of the other fish will grow larger than 6 inches.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Just a recommendation. The ideal would be to keep fish that mature smaller than 6" in a 36" tank.

For your peacocks I'd go with a 48" tank (depending on which peacocks they are) in case upsizing is an option. The borleyi is going to be 8", I did try an 8" borleyi in a 48x18 tank but I moved him to the 72" tank.


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

It's not the size of the fish, it's the space. 
They're small now but once they mature there will be issues, similar to what you're currently experiencing. 
You asked about the least amount of fish the would be compatible in the tank and (out of your stock) that would be a breeding group of yellow labs and maybe a few male peacocks.

The haps will grow too large and too aggressive for a 36" tank. But, that also gives you a great excuse to upgrade to a larger tank.


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## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

what about...

my yellow
the red empress
the convict
and the pike

?? the rest im willing to part with.


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Much better, but you probably know what I'm going to say... stay with either malawi or new world.


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## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

yes i know, i expected that a while ago but thank you for answering my question. i have good news though.

a friend offered to sell me his 55 gal for 100 bucks, im going to buy it in a couple weeks.

i need more advice though... i have something like a coffee table that is 43 inches long. i dont have room for another stand so.. if 2.5 inches are hanging off each side of the stand do i have to worry about the integrity of the tank?? also, i do beleive the table can support the weight of the tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The support needs to be directly under the frame of the tank. Hanging off 2.5 inches is no good.


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## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

if i can find a board that matches the measurement of the tank can i set that on the table and then the tank on the board?


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## Kerrin (Oct 17, 2012)

My advice to this question would be do it once and do it right, how much will you enjoy looking at your new tank if the whole time the question of "is it safe?" is nagging at the back of your mind? and if it isn't safe, thats gonna be a big mess. I know this may mean a little extra outlay, but if you are passionate about keeping and looking after your fish, and especially when it comes to live fish, electricity, glass, and whatever is on the floor and around the tank, nothing beats peace of mind!


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## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

ugh i know i know... i am just limited on room. i could sell my current big tank since this 55 will be replacing it but it was a gift and i would fell really bad doing that. plus my gf would be furious if i did. it wasnt even a gift from her haha. the guy selling me the tank is also going to throw in an iron stand. i just hate those things.


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## Kerrin (Oct 17, 2012)

Better an iron stand than a smashed tank!


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

defbored_usd said:


> the guy selling me the tank is also going to throw in an iron stand. i just hate those things.


I am the same way, but there is a pretty easy option where you can have your cake and eat it too. Just build a wood facade that mounts to the iron stand like I just finished doing here on my 55g #2 tank viewtopic.php?f=30&t=251053 scroll through the 3 pages in my post and you will see what I mean. It's pretty cheap to do and will make the iron stand disappear into a nice looking cabinet :wink:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Agree with the others. And to clarify...the board will not help at all. What you need is the legs and frame of the "stand" to be directly under the frame of the tank. Good idea to enclose the iron one with a facing. Or build a frame from 2x4's and put the smaller tank on a shelf under the bigger tank. Let me know if you are interested in some info on easy, safe frame construction.


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## smitty814 (Sep 27, 2012)

DJRansome said:


> Agree with the others. And to clarify...the board will not help at all. What you need is the legs and frame of the "stand" to be directly under the frame of the tank. Good idea to enclose the iron one with a facing. Or build a frame from 2x4's and put the smaller tank on a shelf under the bigger tank. Let me know if you are interested in some info on easy, safe frame construction.


Excuse me, the boards hanging over on both sides would work just fine. I build houses for a living and many have cantilevered floor joist. I would be more worried about the integrety of the table itself. :dancing:


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Second the board being strong enough hanging over a couple inches, the table would also be my concern.
I would wrap the iron stand like Steve C was saying to do.


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## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

thanks for all the replies everyone. my gripe with the iron stand is not the look. i dont trust it haha... it just seems so unstable, those 4 skinny legs.


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## Steve C (Oct 9, 2011)

Oh no worries man they are more than enough. I use to be a welder/fabricator for 20 years and I will tell ya for sure the angle iron stands can hold two or three times what they are rated for :thumb: Don't let that stop ya from using it.


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## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

Steve C said:


> Oh no worries man they are more than enough. I use to be a welder/fabricator for 20 years and I will tell ya for sure the angle iron stands can hold two or three times what they are rated for :thumb: Don't let that stop ya from using it.


thats makes me feel better about it.

so *** made some decisions about stocking my soon to be 55 gal. 
im going to remove the peacocks. they seem to be the smallest and slowest growing in the tank. and part of the agreement of me taking the tank is that i also take his fish with it.

warning, its SUPER mixed.

1 venusuts
1 red empress
1 yellow lab
1 dwarf pike
1 pink convict
1 borleyi red fin
1 jewel (not sure ill long ill keep him though)
1 milomo hap
and a green terror(the one hes giving me)

he wants me to take his flower horn too but i dont want that psycho in the tank.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

The venustus, red empress, borleyi and milomo all get too big for a 4' tank.....


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

What are you going for? All male?


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## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

the red empress will outgrow the tank? because majority of the internet says it wont.

and yes i am going for all male. which is why im removing one of the borleyi. i dont know how to sex the milomo. the venustus is still under 2 inches. so far thats the only female im sure of. and the pike, not sure how to sex that one.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

In a 48" tank you want to stick to fish that mature at or under 6". I think empress matures at 9".


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## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

so *** been doing some thinking based on the replies here.... like i said all of my fish are pretty small right now i dont have to remove the venustus yet, its not even two inches long. ultimately i would like to keep the red empress, the borleyi, the yellow lab, and the pike haha... so thats 4 fish in the 55 gallon in the end. still too much? if so can i house the red empress in there alone or the red empress with one of the other 3?? i dont want to get rid of it. and getting a larger tank is not likely. not until i graduate. which is still a couple years from now.


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## Michael_M (May 31, 2012)

They won't do any better in smaller numbers. Its not so much about the bio-load of the large fish its just that a 55 has limited swimming room for these species and they tend to get mean when housed in smaller tanks. Think about a 9" fish swimming in a 55. It's half as long as the width of the tank, makes it squishy when they need to turn around.

They'll be fine while they are smaller but the big Malawians you have in my experience are fast growers. Very likely you'll encounter issues within a couple of years.

Know any other Malawian enthusiasts? If you kept them till they got bigger and you began experiencing problems they could fish sit for you till you obtained the tank. You might last a year till issues if the fish are small now.

Otherwise I'd be more inclined to change the stock now rather than later, wheres the fun in growing up a fish you really like only to have to give it away months later. Plenty of size appropriate species you could enjoy and would be able to keep without issue for years.


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## defbored_usd (Jul 19, 2012)

i do know someone that would fishsit for me actually. he could even mail it to me if i move after a graduate.

originally i wanted peacocks.... but my lfs or as i call it, work.... orders their peacocks from a company that pumps them full of hormones.


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