# Heaters are of poor quality nowadays



## ambull (Jun 14, 2005)

So i'm not sure what has happened over the last few years in relation to heater manufacturing, but I am now on my second mishap in three years with heaters sticking "on", and that's after 17 years of never having this issue. Seems I am not alone. I am currently using a couple of new Fluval M-series (M300) heaters. Here is a review I placed somewhere on those heaters, which also has the story behind my previous mishaps:

I picked this up locally (big chain pet shop), because of an emergency failure of a Hydor Theo heater. I really wanted to try the Fluval E-series but I could not find them locally, and I did not have the time to wait for an online delivery.

Having owned these for barely more than 24-hours, I cannot speak for longevity obviously but there is something to the way these things click on and off that says there is a quality trigger inside. I don't know that for sure of course, but I'm going to go out on a limb for this one. Looks wise these certainly due not "blend" into the environment as advertised (what a joke lol - when is the last time you saw a shiny glass rod in a natural aqua environment).

Anyway, most thing that impresses me about these heaters are the accuracy in temps. I have a 160 gal tank, with two 300 watters, and i set the temps at 80 degrees 24-hours ago, and my tank is now EXACTLY at 80 degrees.

I have these heaters fully immersed at a horizontal angle. This fact might lead me to my only "negative" comment re these heaters. The glass seems very breakable, and from reading reviews, it does seem these things have exploded on people. I don't want to chance it so I pushed these guys all the way down and far away from air.

Accuracy and longevity are the most important thing to me and hopefully these fluvals will fit the bill. Having kept fish for over 20 years, it's only been the last few years that I have been dealing with heater mishaps. 3 years ago, I had an Ebo jager (Eheim) get stuck ON and destroy everything inside ($600 worth of wild-caught Tanganyika's). I then decided to replace one big heater with two smaller heaters, to lesson the risk if that happened again, and also tried a different brand. Hydor theo. Well three years almost to the day the same thing happened. But this time cautious plan works. One heater stuck on, and then temp raised to 85-86 degrees, which is not safe but not hot enough to kill, and therefore I had time to replace the Hydor's with these Fluvals.

This time I plan to buy a separate temp controller for extra safety. I no longer trust heaters. Not sure why quality has gone down over the years... I really wanted to try Titanium heaters but it seems as if there are no solid ones out there yet. These M-series fluval's are NOT titanium, despite how they look so buyer beware. They are some sort of fancy/shiny glass that is supposed to have better thermo properties: borosilicate glass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borosilicate_glass


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm not sure if you had a question or wanted input but there is one item I see that might help. I don't use the hydo so have never read the directions. As a part of the setup many heaters state that they should be used in an upright vertical position. Is it possible this is the cause of your early failures?

There are some reasons for them to be in an upright position that may be missed. The heating element is designed to be in the lower portion of the glass tube with controls above it. If you think of how heat rises, you can see that putting the temperature sensing controls directly above the heat will give you a differnt reading than if they are to the side or lower than the heat. Also many cheaper heater use a simple rubber plug to keep water out of the tube. They know that this plug will get brittle and begin to leak so specify that the heater be used upright. As the seal begins to leak, the water will run down to the bottom of the tube without contacting the controls. If the heater is horizontal, this is likely to cause early failure.

Because of these obvious design flaws, I buy heaters that have the controls outside the tank. 
Via-Aqua titanium is one.


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## ambull (Jun 14, 2005)

Thanks for the insight regarding the placement direction for heaters. I actually have always placed every heater I have ever used in a vertical position. My current fluvals (one day old) I now however have in a horizontal position because they seem so susceptible to breaking on contact with air. With my Hydors, and previous Eheim (Jaguar) I kept them vertical but low, so during water changes only the top portion of the heater would be exposed to the air. I was always very cautious to not let the heating element portion of the heater to be exposed.

So again, now my heaters are horizontal and low so that NO portion of the heater will be exposed during water changes. Perhaps I will need to reconsider this now that i've read your post though.

And regarding having an outside controller, I am absolutely going to be adding one to my setup very soon. Don't and won't trust the heaters alone anymore...


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

I only use Jagr heaters (except one Tronic in a grow out tank), and have never had a problem with them. Even if they did stick on now, I don't think there would be enough heat to fry my fish (knocks on top of head).


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## moneygetter1 (Jan 8, 2006)

opcorn: Had my share of heater mishaps too. Decided to do just what you're considering. My choice was Jehmco 500w titanium w/ controller (TSHTCE500). So far so good. A little over 2yrs & still +/- .5 There are other choices, Via-Aqua, Finnex, BlueLine, Won Bros, JBJ & Tunze just to name a few. Read an article about a Finnex HPS model. Comes in 100 to 300w & it's a digital glass unit. Might pick one up just to check it out maybe for the sick tank. Anyway progress will continue. Think back a couple a years ago when MarineLand Stealth was all the rage in the hobby. Then around this time last year, CPSC forced recall of close to 2 million units for major hazard issues. It happens. "T"


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## ambull (Jun 14, 2005)

moneygetter1 said:


> opcorn: Had my share of heater mishaps too. Decided to do just what you're considering. My choice was Jehmco 500w titanium w/ controller (TSHTCE500). So far so good.


Moneygetter - It appears your controller is a Ranco (pls correct me if i'm wrong). I was looking at this very controller from another supplier. If so, can you tell me if your controller has any sort of alarms for too high or too low temps? Not a real big deal either way, just curious since some of the other controllers i was looking at do indeed have alarms warnings...


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I would like to lay hands on some drawings for the electronics on those alarms. What has bothered me is how they can make the alarm work when it needs to let you know. If there is a temperature sensor with associated electronics and those fail, how is the alarm triggered? Since the temperature sensing has failed, what tells the alarm? I assume it does not have a second probe and electronics for alarm temperature sensing. Anybody have some inside info on how they make that work?

The last heater that failed me was of a new design which does not use the normal contacts to open/close the circuit. Instead it used a power transister and electronics for the switch which sounds much better. The trouble was that they did not go very far with the idea of making a good heater and the seal failed. This let water into the tube and killed the transister or the chip involved. Both were corroded.


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## ambull (Jun 14, 2005)

PfunMo said:


> If there is a temperature sensor with associated electronics and those fail, how is the alarm triggered? Since the temperature sensing has failed, what tells the alarm?


Excellent question. One that never occurred to me before. Would love to know myself. For the record, the one I am looking at (and referenced in a previous post), and the one I believe moneygetter has, I don't think has an alarm. But many of these controllers are advertised with Alarms, and I don't believe they have second sensor probes. Perhaps the alarms only serve to warn you of a failed or underperforming heater, and not in the case of a faulty sensor probe.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

There are ways it could have an alarm but I have wondered. It gets really weird when we try to figure what a circuit might do IF it is designed the way we think it might. I can see a circuit that would use the probe for normal temperature sensing and with a "side issue" type circuit hung on to monitor the operation of the integrated circuit. It might be easy enough to warn if the chip lost power or stops working but then you can get into all kinds of theories on what and how they do it. It all gets down to how much we can trust the design and the resulting marketing. Part of my reluctance to accept that there is a workable alarm comes from past experience with heater designs and what the marketing says. There are heaters currently marketed as having circuits designed to shut down the heater when it is out of the water. I've checked one of these and found that it does shut down when run dry. What the marketing fails to mention is that the heater is ruined and no longer reliable after the event. A way of selling us on an idea but then not delivering what we think we bought???

We used to have a saying where I worked. We thought we knew what things did when working right but when they were not working right, what would they do? Anything they want to!!! A good shot of lightning can rewire the best of equipment.


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## moneygetter1 (Jan 8, 2006)

> It appears your controller is a Ranco (pls correct me if i'm wrong). I was looking at this very controller from another supplier. If so, can you tell me if your controller has any sort of alarms for too high or too low temps? Not a real big deal either way, just curious since some of the other controllers i was looking at do indeed have alarms warnings


 opcorn: *ambull* ,I believe you are part right. Similar unit, different application. Both are commercial grade units but Ranco's is more for HVAC setups. (i think). This unit *TSHTCE-500 watt Titanium Heater w/ ETCI Controller*, http://jehmco.com/html/heaters.html , is for aquarium use. No bells or whistles or flashing lights, just set points up/down & s1 on indication when the unit is firing the heater. Not pretty but functional so far. I think the warranty is a year but I'm twice past that & then some. My brother has had similar success w/ a different unit. BlueLine Biotherm. He has it wired to his chiller & all is well almost two years. "T"


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm going with the combined unit and smaller price of the Via Aqua heaters which have the controller, heat sensing probe and heater combined in one unit selling for the $35-45 range. The first units were not well done on quality inspection and many were bad out of the box but they seem to have that fixed now. I had a good online dealer who would replace defective units without question and I was impressed with their service. Otherwise I would have been burned on two occasions. I'm now up to five of the heaters and going on two years without failures but I still keep my fingers crossed.


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## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

PfunMo said:


> I would like to lay hands on some drawings for the electronics on those alarms. What has bothered me is how they can make the alarm work when it needs to let you know. If there is a temperature sensor with associated electronics and those fail, how is the alarm triggered?


There are a couple ways of handling this and I plan to put those features into the universal controller project. The easiest way to do it without adding additional parts is to keep a list of previous temps for the past several hours. If the temp from the first hour is 65F , second hour 70F, 3rd hour 65F , 4th hour 40F, then you take the average of temps you can determine that the sensor has either out of the water or has failed.

The sensors we will be using for the project also have built in CRC data. You take the data the sensor sends and if the values are not correct you know the data is corrupt.

The other thing in use is called a watchdog . Inside the processor there is a clock that counts upward. If the count reaches the limit the processor resets. To keep that from happening the program has to reset the watchdog clock showing that the program is still executing properly . You basically perform a task, reset the clock, perform next task, reset clock. This is a hardware function and the only way it fails is if the entire chip fails.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I was sure there would be a way but is it used at this time? Since you are still in the stage of deciding what features and how to do this project, I would assume you are not trying to do something that others are already selling. When you do get around to looking at a practical price point, there may be changes to your design as well.

The old cartoon drawing about the swing and how different groups look at it is just too common in the real world. I'm afraid that many of the heaters we find are far from what the engineer had in mind. Almost anybody could design a better set of contacts but then the question becomes how to put them inside a glass tube and sell it for less than twenty dollars. It is a problem that nobody has fully solved yet.


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## moneygetter1 (Jan 8, 2006)

8) It's a basic economic marketing ploy. Built in obsolescence!! It's what makes all these mfgrs. filthy rich. They know you want / need it & when it breaks, they know you'll buy another. It's not even a question of "IF", it's merely a question of "WHEN?? Granted some give the appearance of longevity, but none of them are designed to be a 'ONE TIME' purchase. Therefore the mfgr. can use the least expensive components that satisfy product lifetime projections thus maximizing profit. Diabolical Genius!!! "T"


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## jd lover (Mar 11, 2011)

got 2 aqueon pro and i cant be happier =] just like the old stealth heaters


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## drowen02 (Jan 5, 2011)

Completely agree, I have 2 of these Fluval heaters and my temp is perfect at 80 all the time, no flucuations at all, love em.


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## ambull (Jun 14, 2005)

moneygetter1 said:


> > I believe you are part right. Similar unit, different application. Both are commercial grade units but Ranco's is more for HVAC setups. (i think). This unit *TSHTCE-500 watt Titanium Heater w/ ETCI Controller*


*

Thanks for the info. I believe commission is due to you :thumb: Based on the research i've done since my original post, and your post about what you are using and the Jehmco website, i went ahead and purchased the same unit as you have (the stand alone controller only). I wanted the 2-stage unit for the two heaters I have but the gentleman on the phone talked me out of it saying it was totally unnecessary (then proceeded to lose me when explaining why). Still not 100% convinced that I didn't want the 2-stage unit, but whatever, quite sure the single stage one I purchased will be fine for what I need.

Still loving the fluval heaters I originally wrote about by the way!!! Hope to get many years out of them... but next up will definitely be Titanium...*


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Please, let's keep it fish related. Posts have been removed. Your cooperation is appreciated.


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## Mike_G (Nov 8, 2011)

jd lover said:


> got 2 aqueon pro and i cant be happier =] just like the old stealth heaters


I think they're made in the same factory in Italy

The newer stealth heaters that got recalled were made in China IIRC


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## somEDude (Dec 4, 2011)

I had a hydor theo cook my fish a week after purchase to replace a dead tronic. Killed my mpanga red fulleborni family I had multiple generations of for 8 years and a group of polits. At least the 95 degree water didnt kill the 8 synodontis petricolas got them out in time. theos are gargage. At least the tronic just died.


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## the blur (Oct 4, 2010)

ambull said:


> I then decided to replace one big heater with two smaller heaters, to lesson the risk if that happened again, and also tried a different brand. Hydor theo. Well three years almost to the day the same thing happened. But this time cautious plan works. One heater stuck on, and then temp raised to 85-86 degrees, which is not safe but not hot enough to kill, and therefore I had time to replace the Hydor's with these Fluvals.


that is the proper solution to prevent disaster. and it works the other way too. 1 heater will keep the tank warm enough if the other one fails to come on.

good job !


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## ambull (Jun 14, 2005)

somEDude said:


> I had a hydor theo cook my fish a week after purchase to replace a dead tronic. Killed my mpanga red fulleborni family I had multiple generations of for 8 years and a group of polits.


It really is a HUGE bummer when somethinging as dumb as a heater kills off your prized fish. When this happened to me the first time, it killed a Juli Marleri colony that had to be going on almost 12 years, and I had just added 8 BEAUTIFUL wild adult Opthalmotilapia Nasuta 'Kipili Gold' about 9 months earlier (NOT cheap) -- lost everything (well my Syno's survived as well).

Anyway, I hope you have two heaters and a controller now because trust me it can and eventually will happen again...


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## the blur (Oct 4, 2010)

Another great thing about 2 heaters, is I just unplugged 1 of them for summer time. I now have a 50 watt heater in a 30 gallon tank for the entire summer. The odds of cooking my fish are nil.


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