# Stocking List Help!



## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

Hey everyone, so I need some help from all of you fiscianados out there! Im planning on doing an either SA or CA setup, but would like a unique and abstract group of fish. I'm not into the lake malawi setups with multicoloured similar looking fish. I would like to keep a 55 gal but can go to 75 if need be (Im even secretly looking at a 90gal but if my better half sees that she might kill me!) I like pretty much every kind of fish out there. I currently have a small 20 gal planted tank with an angel, a dwarf gourami, some botia loaches, some tetras and yada yada. Cool tank but not cool enough. I also have a marine tank empty right now because my lionfish has sadly passed away (it was his time) but I think I will convert it into a reef tank. This cichlid tank is what is missing in my fish life right now. So, for stocking ideas, what do you guys have? What would work in a 50 or 75? I like oscars and jd's a lot but it seems like they ruin the hope for some diversity in the tank. Help please! Maybe we can pick one center piece fish and build around it?


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## sjwrx (Apr 15, 2009)

you can try something like

1) JD, female sal, firemouth/cons

2) pair of Nics

3) pair of cons/firemouths, JD

You can also switch in a blue acara or something like rainbows in there. 55G doesnt leave that much space for a community setup. IF you scroll down a bit in the central american cichlid section theres quite a few 55g and 75g stocking ideas.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

55 gal tanks are very limited when considering big fish...

The additional 6" front to back of a 75 gallon makes a world of difference and I highly recommend spending the few extra buckts to get this. If not you will regret it and still en up buying one in less than a year, so it's actually SAVING the cost of a 55 gal (great selling lineto use on your wife!)

The 90 gallon has the same footprint as the 75 gal and many people will suggest the height has little extra value. Having been the proud owner of both sizes, I completely disagree. You can stack rock much higher in the 90 gallon which in turn makes the bottom dwelling fish feel more comfortable moving up in the tank increasing viewing pleasure. The extra volume of water improves water quality (the solution to polution is dilution). Having a taller tank also makes it more likely that 'dither fish' (the little pretty ones your wife would love soooo much  ) will be able to avoid getting eaten...

As for stocking... I used my 6' 125 gal to grow out a group of Red Head Tapajos (Geophagus) and have really fallen in love with them. They can be kept as a breeding colony with a low level of aggression amongst themselves. They also stay smaller and do well with docile tankmates. In a 75 gal You could do 2~3 males, 5~7 females... if you use the smaller numbers you could also keep a pair of Rams... and probably all of the fish from your 20 gal, or a new group of dithers (Tetras, Hatchet fish, Pencil fish, etc, etc)...

The same fish but in slightly smaller numbers would work for the 55 gal but you won't be happy with it 

If your really into larger fish, which I cannot blame you for if you are... I suggest 3 low ~ moderate aggressive large ~ medium sized fish... avoid anything in the Amphilophus or Parachromis familesâ€¦

A breeding pair of Dempseys and a breeding pair of Cons makes for an interesting 75 gal. Iâ€™ve kept this combo long term / as adults personally and was quite amused with it.

But if you really want to make yourself happyâ€¦ check out the 4â€™ x 2â€™ x 2â€™ 120 gal (90 gal but fatter front to back) and consider a pair of larger growing aggressive fish such as Trimac, Midas or Red Devilâ€¦ I have this 120 gal and kept a pair of Trimacs in it and was extremely happy with that tankâ€¦ it broke my heart to have to rehome that pairâ€¦


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

How about an Electric Blue Jack Dempsey as your center piece fish and build around it. They are smaller than regular ones and not as aggressive. These fish are captivating with their muilticolor blue iridescence. When people see them for the first time they can't believe a fresh water fish has that much color. Here is a pic of my little 1 1/2" guy.


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

Ya that blue JD seems like a good idea lil mamma. So it looks like I'll go to 75, 55 is just too limiting, and Toby_H is probably right about replacing it in a year. Do you think a pair of cons could match up with that JD or does he stay too small? So I think I'll go 75 with maybe that electric blue JD and start building around it. Any suggestions? Toby, do you think those Red Head Tapajos could hang with that JD in a 75?


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Rainbows are peaceful and color full apair of those would look great and do well from what I understand.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I've raised severaal groups of Blue Dempseys  They are my favorite fish... and short answer, yes they will be able to mix with RH Tapajos...

My advice when desiring to keep Blue Dempseys is to buy a group of them to start. They can be pretty picky and it's fairly common to loose one or two in the grow out process. They have also been inbred to the point where defects are a bit too common. Raising a group allows you to select the nicest specimen to keep long term and also gives you the chance at obtaining a pair. I rarely suggest this approach as it's often hard to rehome half grown Cichlids, but this is not true at all for Blue Dempseys...

I suggest monitoring an auction site such as AquaBid.Com and finding a supplier that offers a discount on a group of them...

I would suggest growing the Blue Dempseys out for a while before making them deal with Cichlid tankmates. But you could put up to 8 of them in a 75 Gal with a bunch of Tetras or something similar to add some life...

Then in 6 months or so when you have a decent idea of how your Blue Dempseys are doing then start working on Cichlid tankmates...

One or a Pair of Blue Dempseys... A group of 2 male / 5 female Red Head Tapajos and a handful of Tetras/HatchetFish/PencilFish/etc as Dithers would look real nice in a 75 gal and should work long term...

As a matter of fact, that is exactly what I have in my 125 gal but with more Tapajos and the addition of a pair of Elliott's Cichlids (very similar to Firemouthes).

I planned on making a thread in the Tank Set Up section this evening displaying & explaining my 125 gal..


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

Toby I've been looking for your thread but you must still be working on it. I purchased a 75 gallon tank today, should have it all setup by this time next week and I'll add some ammonia to get things rolling. At this time I'm thinking:

1 or a pair of blue JD's
Group of Tapajos
Pair of Rainbows
Pleco
Dithers

or

JD
Oscar
Pair of Cons
Pair of Rainbows (or not depending on stocking)
Pleco 
Dithers (not when oscar gets larger though)

I've been looking at firemouths but haven't heard anyone say anything terribly nice about them yet.

Overstocked too much? I've been hearing that you should overstock a bit to keel aggression, anyone have any other takes on that? Filtration isn't a prob, I'll get a big can or a sump going. 
What do you think of the list?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Photobucket is doing maintenance so I can't upload photots tonight... jerks... 

List one I like. It's a fairly dense stocking list but with docile fish aggression shouldn't be a problem. Just be sure to keep up on water changes...

List two is fairly dense and not so docile. I would go with just the Oscar, JD & Convict pair (Iâ€˜ve kept this exact stock in a 75 gal with adult fish)... when they are small and growing out you are welcome to add Dithers and the Cichlids will remove them for you when they are large enough.

In my experience, Firemouthes are a shot in the dark. Well colored Firemouthes are beautiful fish... but all too often when we pick up a couple from a random fish store they never color up and FMs with poor coloration are very drab fish (IMO).

I went with Elliott's Cichlids, a cousin to the Firemouth. They do not get as brilliant of red as FMs can, but they have a lot of blue and green splashes to them. They are also a bit more feisty. Your first list would be fine with a pair of FM or Elliott's instead of (but not in addition to) the rainbows.


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

hay dude many of these guys advised me against keeping a breeding pair of JD's and a breeding pair of FM's together......... but now i have gone against their word i am glad i did they don't mind eachother they actually seem to get along and there isn't any chunks out of fins or anything..... this is in a 55g by the way........ all u need is some nice plants some drift wood and a couple of caves and ur set they r in there with 3 bristle nose cats and 2 tiger 2 moss barbs
i think that would b a good pillar to start with


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

hay dude many of these guys advised me against keeping a breeding pair of JD's and a breeding pair of FM's together......... but now i have gone against their word i am glad i did they don't mind eachother they actually seem to get along and there isn't any chunks out of fins or anything..... this is in a 55g by the way........ all u need is some nice plants some drift wood and a couple of caves and ur set they r in there with 3 bristle nose cats and 2 tiger 2 moss barbs
i think that would b a good pillar to start with


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

But how long have they been in there together and how big are they?

You've been a member for less then a month. If you got advice from members here about that set up you can't know how it will work long term in that amount of time.


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

umm like i hade some for like 5 months but then all the fish in the tank died
but my current ones only lke 1 week.......... but i have talked to this other guy and his fire mouth was smaller than his JD's and they had no problems


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

as said before this combo could work *jamesman_1994*....IMO its just a little too risky...especially for people newer to the hobby.


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

kk i think i migh have just had some luck with mine =] well good luck 2 u


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I would wait to give out advice on how well that set up is working until it's been a year or so. It take most fish a week to settle in.


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

k sorry for trying to help.......... but i have had some previous experiance


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

*chrispyweld* no need to be rude were all trying to learn here


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Sorry but his "so there!" attitude with his posts regarding the week he has had his fish makes me not worry about it too much.

My biggest pet peave is people giving out advice about fish and stocking with little or no experience. They hear what they want from anthers post, even if the majority of people disagree, and start spouting it to others with no experience. It sets up the people who come here for advice for failure.

We are talking about fish that live for a decade and lots of people think they are experts and start doling out advice before their fish even reach maturity.


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

well guess what i don't think i am an expert and i have talked to people that have had expeariance with the mix between fire mouths and JD's and they have been fine so y don't u just shut up about what i have said and say something useful that might actually help the person who needs it..............


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

chrispyweld said:


> My biggest pet peave is people giving out advice about fish and stocking with little or no experience. They hear what they want from anthers post, even if the majority of people disagree, and start spouting it to others with no experience. It sets up the people who come here for advice for failure.


I totally agree.


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

*jamesman_1994* Now ure being rude....this is just a forum where people express there thoughts and ideas no need to get nasty about it.


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

sorry but i don't think thee is any point in getting worked up about something just say something else maby not so agressive.............. so can we actually get back on subject..... i am sure cristo doesn't want to read all this rubish on his poast that has nothing to do with his question


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

It was a bit entertaining to read all that 'rubbish' lol, but we should all remember that we give advice for fish in generalities of their personalities, but at the end of the day they are still individuals, and though Jamesman might have a set that some would advice against, it might be working for him. Because this is my first time with Cichlids I would like to use a 'recipe' that has had a larger margin of success in order to avoid difficulties with the fish that could turn me off to the tank and waste the hundreds of dollars it is costing.

I think for sure I'm going to switch the rainbows for FM's or Elliots but which? Or is there another pair that someone out there thinks might work well. Here is my tentative list, I'll need to order these fish from my guys this week if I want all Juve's by this time next month.

Pair of Blue JD's
Group of Geophagus (Tapajos)
Pair of FM's or Elliots or ?
Pleco (any ideas on what kind)
School of Barbs and other dithers

I an going to post a photo journal of this 75 with pictures of everything from setting up the tank to doing a fishless cycle properly to proper aquascape (which I'll need advice with in the near future *hint hint Toby_H*) and acclimation and the whole nine yards so that aqaurasists new to cichlids or new to the hobby period can benifit from the wealth of advice that I am recieving in these forums.


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

hay i just have one question how old r most of u ppl......... i am only 15


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

so 1994 is your birthday lol, i get it now. before I was like what the **** is 1994 for. I'm 22 my Australian friend, and on here you will find people between 25 - 45 mostly, many who have been keeping fish for longer than you've been alive (some may even have fish older than you!) and these people can be a great resource for young people like you and I who haven't had as much experience in this hobby. What do you think of my stock list?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Wow what a derailment...

I really like your list...

A reminder... I would grow the Blue Dempseys out for a while before making them deal with Cichlid tank mates...

On the topic of Blue Dempseys, do some research on them. They are known to be prone to parasitic illnesses when they are young so you should take steps to avoid this. Personally, Iâ€™ve used UV lights on my young Dempsey tanks and because of this I have not lost one Blue Dempsey (out of many) to parasitic infection. There are other methods but they are only less expensive if you donâ€™t loose any fish while using those methodsâ€¦

I traded the potential for a very red throat for a mildly red throat and blue/green on the body (Elliott over FM)... but that also avoided the risk of getting a dull FM... So that choice depends on which color scheme (red or blue/green) is more important to you and if you are willing to take a risk to get the red...

Don't get a Common Pleco! There are many dozens of medium growing Plecos out there, some of which are amazing looking and most of the really amazing ones hold pretty hefty price tags. Bristle Nose (BN) Plecos are a nice cheap medium sized Pleco that will actually eat algae. But if you want to spend a few dollars on a fancier Pleco feel free to explore all they have to offer.

One thing I'd like to correct myself on... After sharing pics of my Geos it's being suggested to me that they are actually "Red Hump Geos", not "Red Head Tapajos"... and after comparing pics of the two I'd have to agree... Sorry for the misinformation... It seems the Red Humps stay a bit smaller and are a bit less aggressive... although I believe either would work fine for your set up...

When it comes to Fishless Cycling, I'll gladly chime in when or where I can help, but there are others with far more experience than I in that field.

I start all my new tanks with bacteria from old tanks. That's a perk to having had fish tanks for longer than the hobby at large has understood the dynamics to the nitrogen cycle... My parents had Cichlid tanks when I was born... I got my first Cichlid tank when I was around 7... and I've had them for 75% of my life ever since... I'm 34 now... I also know thee are other's on this board that know more than I do and have been keeping fish longer than I have... It's never good to feel you know more than everyone else... especially when your a new guy...


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## Bkeen (Mar 13, 2009)

Do as toby says and get a group of EBJD's and the keep the best one or two. Also, the Geo's are going to look great in there as well. Do you plan on getting tiger barbs as your dither's?


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

Ya I definitely won't be getting just a regular pleco. Of the tanks I've been looking at, it seems that people cheap out on the pleco and I feel that there is a real opportunity for a bit more wow factor with a neat one instead. Ya I will buy 4 or 5 EBJD's once the tank is cycled. How long do you feel that I should grow them for before adding tank mates? Bkeen, I was planning on using tiger barbs as dithers but I'm getting mixed reactions on it. How do you guys and gals feel about them?

Another thing, I'm seeing a few different kinds of Geo's at the fish place I go to. How wide is the variance in this group?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Cristo said:


> Ya I will buy 4 or 5 EBJD's once the tank is cycled. How long do you feel that I should grow them for before adding tank mates?


The more you get the better your odds at a compatible pair and the better chances you have at getting an impressive male... 4 or 5 isn't a bad number, but like with most things more is better (except for the price tag  )



Cristo said:


> Bkeen, I was planning on using tiger barbs as dithers but I'm getting mixed reactions on it. How do you guys and gals feel about them?


I like Tetras, and often use them as dithers for young fish or docile fish. They are large bodied which makes them less snack size, but aren't nippy or otherwise troublesome to young Cichlids. The downside is they aren't the swiftest things in the world and are easily caught by larger Cichlids.

Tiger Barbs are well known to be pretty darn nippy which in my opinion makes them a not so great dither.



Cristo said:


> Another thing, I'm seeing a few different kinds of Geo's at the fish place I go to. How wide is the variance in this group?


There are a lot of different kinds of Geos... I would get the names of the ones available locally and then find out if any of them will work for your situation. Here is a list of Geo species with info on each one:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/c ... php?cat=31


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

I like tiger bars. They are a sturdy and quick dither. They are know to be fin nippers but if you get a good sized group 3-5 IME they tend to school pretty good and keep the squabbling to themselves. You can also add more variety by getting different color morphs; standard , green, "albino". They will school together and give you more color in your tank. I think most people don't like them because they are not from the right region. That's only important if you want it to be.


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

fin nippers though eh? might not be the best idea then. Well i have all of the equipment that i need now but i have to start cycling the tank. I can steal a bit of water from my other tank to get some bacteria in there but I should still cycle it for a few weeks with something, hopefully the fish that i can keep as dithers. any ideas anyone? I was going to do a fishless cycle but I think the tank will get set up quicker this way and it looks like i can get my hands on a group of ebjd's pretty quick here.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

I would just put your new filter on your old tank for a few weeks or change some media from your old filter to your new filter and you should be good. I took a large rock from my 125g and put it in my new filter on my 29g and it cycled in less than a week with fish in it.

Transferring water doesn't do much if anything to start a bacteria colony. It grows on surfaces, thus the use of bio media. Transfer enough media and decor and u should be instantly cycled. I always move my filter from my smaller tank onto the new one when I upgrade. It is already prepared to handle the bio load and therefore take zero time to cycle. I have never had a problem this way.


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

hay i got some barbs for my tank they r prety quick and i love to watch them squable....... it is funny and they havn't nipped aby fins yet (except eachothers)


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I like to use the same model filter on most of my tanksâ€¦ one benefit this gives me is when I start a new tank I can put on old filter on the new tank and the new filter on the old tankâ€¦ this transfers a good load of bacterial goodness to the new tankâ€¦

Running the new filter on the old tank for a couple of weeks works well too. If you do this I suggested putting some old media in the new filterâ€¦ Then clean the old filters to increase the need for bacterial repopulationâ€¦

FYI - You can use either of these (or other) methods of â€œseedingâ€


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

Ya sounds good. I have a huge piece of driftwood in my community tank, I could use that, although it's going to be a *************** with all the plants in there. I could take the driftwood out and put it into the new tank, and maybe the cave but that will leave the smaller tank pretty open and I wonder how the fish will take to that. That tank is a bit overstocked because I'm housing some fish for a friend. I could move the platies to the big tank for a while to help it cycle to make some room in the smaller tank while the wood and cave are out?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Cristo said:


> I could move the platies to the big tank for a while to help it cycle to make some room in the smaller tank while the wood and cave are out?


Trick is, you have to do a fishless cycle and add pure ammonia yourself... or do a with fish cycle but you cannot add ammonia yourself...

If you cycle with fish and add ammonia the high level of ammonia you put in the tank suddenly will shock/poison them... and experiencing this every day will likely kill them and at the very least do permanent damage to internal organs...

Also if you cycle with fish, your system will only develop enough bacteria to deal with the amount of waste produced by those fish... So when you add more fish next week your tank will go through a "mini cycle" while your ammonia, then nitrite, spike until your bacterial colonies increase enough to handle the additional bio load. Ammonia & Nitrite spikes are not a very peaceful way to welcome new fish...

My best suggestion is to either put a new filter on the old tank and move an old filter to the new tank... or put media from an old filter in the new filter on the new tank and put new media in the old filter on the old tank... Then follow the general suggestions of a fishless cycle. Just watch the old tank and do water changes as needed if goes through a "mini cycle". These fish will be in a better position to handle a mini cycle as they are settled and not under the stress of moving...


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

Have you ever used that cycle stuff that is supposed to help cycle it quicker? Not that i'm in a huge rush or anything, just wondering.


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

I am really having a tough time finding ebjd's. I'm wondering if some of my pet stores have them labelled as jd's because I'm seeing quite a few bright blue ones. Are regular jd's colored this way as juve's?


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

firemouths are great, hear is a pic of my old pair (plz excuse the torn fins, were in an African cichlid tank of mine while they grew up, all was good until they started making fights, they won them... but came out injured...)


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

**** gage... Those Fm's are so **** nice. :thumb:
Makes me want to get some FM's now.


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

ya those are really beauts, I hope I can find a pair that look that good.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

I have been seeing better quality ones in the last 6 months or so. They must have added some new blood to the stock ponds in Florida. They are remarkably more aggressive then others I have had in the past too.


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

the cycle is on! tank is now cycling without fish, hopefully I can watch this carefully this weekend, I'm hearing horror stories of eight week cycles with this method. I'm taking plenty of pics. Also, my tank had a leak, so I had to drain it and re-caulk all the class  what a day. I have old filters on the new tank as well as driftwood and a large rock. if anyone has any tips for the fishless cycle let me know. i added pure ammonia to the water, and dechloranizer, but nothing else.


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

It looks like the ebjd's might not happnen. Missed ordering them for the next long while, and I cant find a place to get them in my province (Im up in Canada for those of you wondering). I'm trying to track down a breeder and hopefully purchase wholesale but who knows if that can happen. If it doesn't, Im going to do

1 JD
1 Oscar
Pair of _________________

Im going back and forth on convict cichlids. They rub me the wrong way for some reason. Any ideas for a pair to go in with those two heavyweights?


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## Cristo (Jul 7, 2009)

Or.... replacing the ebjd pair? any ideas?


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