# How do you determine the sex of angels?



## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I have 4 angels that are like 2 years old, maybe a little younger and I noticed 2 sorta paired up and now the other 2 go into the first 2's area of the tank and nip and the larger of the pair

I just want to know how to tell if I have 3 males or 2 pairs or I just don't know?

Thank you


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

lots of ways, though most if not all are inaccurate...

with angels of that age I would use the head shape method.

Look at where the forehead reaches the nose, not all males are this pronounced.

Male:









Female:


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

none of mine have either of those features?


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

well they have to have at least one... is it a slanted steady shaped head or is there a 70 ish degree angle from the forehead to the snout.

they all are either one or the other...


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

two of mine have pretty good size bumps the other has no and the final one has a slight bump


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## M0oN (Dec 8, 2003)

It's very hard to do without having witnessed bonded pairs a few times in your own house over the years. They definitely do not have any 100% characteristics that determine one from the other, and at sizes too immature to start the mating process it's absolutely impossible to do.

Your best bet is, as with most fish like this, wait for them to pair off and pay attention from there.

I've bred them several times and I still could not comfortably tell some one I'm 100% positive one is a male or a female without observing the fish closely for a few days in my house. Unless they're already a bonded pair.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

like MOoN said, there really is no 100% way, but I've had best success with this method, as with a local breeder of angels around here, which says he has never been wrong in sexing with this method... I cal Bullsh**... but it is a moderate way of sexing mature angels.

sounds like you have 2 males a female and a hermaphrodite :?


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

*M0oN*
How old do they have to be before they do pair off and are able to start breeding? and how long do they breed for?


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## M0oN (Dec 8, 2003)

I've had large females with nauchul humps like that before - so that's definitely BS from your breeder, or just blind luck.

I think behavior is a better indicator than morphology in the case of angelfish, but that's just something you cannot describe to a person over the internet without typing out a 5 page essay on the matter.

Also, keep in mind that it's not unheard of for two females to pair up and both lay eggs for no apparent reason - males are the only sex that will 100% beat the tar out of each other no matter what you do.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

If I were to post pics of them could you tell me what you think I have?


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

2 females pairing up is never a bad thing though...  (is that inappropriate for this forum?... I apologize if it is...)

like MOoN said, never a guarantee, but we could give educated guesses for you


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I will post pics tomorrow afternoon then thank you.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)




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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

π


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

how do i post a picture on here. It wont work the way I am use to doing it.[/img]


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

how do i post a picture on here. It wont work the way I am use to doing it.[/img]


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

figured it out


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

messed up


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

this one always hangs around the blushing angel


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

the blushing one


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

silver and gold hang out


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

gold


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

just let me know what sex you think each one is. the blushing and marble are always on the right side. the silver and gold hang out and then come over to the right side to nip at the marble one. while the blushing just kind of wanders, below them.

thanks for all the help hopefully I have 2 males and 2 females.


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## M0oN (Dec 8, 2003)

Honestly, you need better quality photo's, and a lot more pictures of each fish from different angles before I'll even give a guess - which will be totally inaccurate, hehe.

They will start pairing off as early as 8-12 months of age, though males usually take a 1.5-2 years before they can fertilize eggs.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I hope these work better.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)




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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

double post.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)




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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)




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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)




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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I tried really hard to get better pictures but this is what i got. please jut tell me what you think I know it is not a guarantee of what sex they are.. Thank you very much for all your help.


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## M0oN (Dec 8, 2003)

First two are male, calico and platinum are possible females. Just an opinion, though.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I thought. the silver and gold were males, the marble I also thought was a male and the blushing i figured to be a female. The marble and blushing are always together and the silver and gold are together so thats why I am curious.

thank you again.


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## apistomaster (Jun 22, 2006)

If in 2 years your assorted domestic varieties haven't spawned then they probably never will.
I would say you have 4 males.
Angelfish may begin breeding as early as 9 months and all the pairs should have spawned by 12 months.
Even if your fish did breed the resulting fry would not be a pretty sight. I didn't catch what size tank you grew your angels in but from their appearance, it looks like the tank was too small and too shallow. It takes a 55 gal tank to grow out 6 nicely formed Angelfish. I would consider raising a group of All Black or Half Blacks. They are usually easier to sell. A lot of hobbyist breeders raise Golds, Koi or Marbles so you would have more competition to deal with.
If you must have variety then choose the same color variety but get 3 Normal fin and 3 Veiltails. Then you would produce both normal and veiltails of the same color yet have two different fin style catagories.

The photos that were posted on page one by another member were of wild P.scalare and show the ideal standard for conformation for Angelfish. For another example of adolescent aged wild Angels here is a photo of the 8 I have. One pair began spawning at about 10 months and the other two pairs all bred before reaching 12 months old.









You should consider starting over and only with one color/fin variety with no more than six fish in a 55 gal. A desire to breed Angelfish implies you will have more than you can keep so that is why you should breed a true breeding strain that shops might consider taking in trade for store merchandise but it can be difficult to find a shop willing to deal with you even if you are raising nice fish.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

*apistomaster*
I Have 4 in a 55 gal. And they are really happy. I don't really care to breed these ones. I was just interested to know what sex I had.

but thank you.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Matthew,

You need to go to an image upload website like http://www.imageshack.us and upload the picture, then copy/paste the code with the


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