# Female holding eggs...first timer!!!



## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

Soz guys but I hope you dont mind me renaming this post as *** had no responce from it so far. Moderator....if you want to delete the post "Good News" but please just leave this one.

Thanks

I recently had to make a v hard decsision, i got rid of the all the malawis i had in my tank so that I could give a chance for my Frontosa to start to breed. Although i was very fond of the malwais it payed off! You guys may remember a post that Razo and I were disscussing Females spawning on the left side of the tank? Well guess what! After just 5 days of removing the malawi the female Frontosa started to dig out the left side of the tank. She was going round in a circle and doing what looked like a dance with her tale and removing the sand. 
The next day after that I came home and found her with "Marlon Brando" type mouth! On closer inspection I was amazed to see shes got a mouth full of large eggs and still holding so far after 24hrs....the thing is did she make the big male an "offer he couldnt refuse" 
Now I dont want to jinx all this but im now going to have to ask you guys some qeustions?

The thing is these Frontosa are all only about 18 months old and are around 5 to 6 inch in length....and I was supprised to see them breeding so quickly.....I have around 11 Frontosa of Various sizes but unfortuanlty only 1 large female so far and around 3 large males. Wish it was other way around! The others are all too small to sex yet...I've seen the biggest male making slight interest in her but i havnt seen a lot of interaction between them and im thinking that these eggs may not actually be fertilized? There is no way of course for me to know yet? How long do females hold eggs until they hatch? I have seen them dancing around each other jaw locking and fanning each other with their tails but if anything else has occoured it was iether at night or whilst i was at work, so fingers x'd...... Im not of course even going to considor stripping or anything for a long time cause I want these guys left alone so that they get used to doing this......advice please?

I have a 5' by 2' by 2' around 150 uk gal 11 Frontosa Burindi's


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

it's good that you posted such experience as result of removing malawi. there are always members asking if these two groups of fish are compatible. :roll: 
as you decided not to strip, you have not much else to do but wait/watch. some females will stubbornly hold bad eggs for weeks, so without stripping, you have little assurance until you see fry peeking out her mouth. if she aborts the hold, there are a few tricks to tempt her into another quick try, but you will need to practice your stripping skills first.


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

Hi Guys;

Donâ€™t want to jinx here but sheâ€™s still holding after day 4.

Lloyd...you mentioned a quick trick to get her to have another try? Also you mentioned stripping skills? Any tips? I would be really frightened of hurting her to be honest and as sheâ€™s my only breeding female at present I donâ€™t want to go and do anything rash.

The eggs in her mouth are still yellow at present and I can estimate she may have around 10 in there....sheâ€™s still quite small at around 4 to 5 inch though. The male appears to have a small dick sticking out or something so maybe they were fertilized after all :roll:

I should also mention that this spawn occurred several days after a 50% wa


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

that last part..........I should also mention that this spawn occurred several days after a 50% water change


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

Can I just add a further qeustion? Can I just go on feeding the tank? Or is there a danger she will spit in favour of the food? Or do mothers stop feeding or do they even manage to eat without swallowing the brood?


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

karatejo said:


> Lloyd...you mentioned a quick trick to get her to have another try?


 for difficult variants: i have had good success stripping females on their first day of holding. often, that same female will be found holding again within the next few days, and this second spawn always produces more viable eggs than the first. hypothesis: most female produce more egg than they can hold. if the male is late on the scene, she will not join him, if she has already filled her mouth and passed into maternal mode. as you noted, the male is still carrying a descended breeder tube. only your egg result can confirm if he was early, or late, to the dance. 
burundi are an easily bred variant, so i doubt you should have any of these difficulties.



karatejo said:


> Also you mentioned stripping skills? Any tips?


 frontosa are easiest fish to strip. best advice, is to prepare all your tools before netting her, so your effort is time concise. i use a 6x10 plastic/tupperware type container filled 1/2 with tank water. two nets are required to catch the female without stressing her. wet your hands prior to handling to reduce slime coat damage. hold her on her side just above the water line and gently pry her mouth open with a rounded, but firm tool. i use the end of a craft type paint brush. the eggs will fall out her mouth as you gently dip her in and out of the water. once all eggs are removed, i return her to the original tank. i then use a xl eye dropper to gently pick up each egg and place into my tumbler. you can take your time (+/- 5 minutes) at this final stage, but do not bruise or expose any egg to air.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

karatejo said:


> Can I just go on feeding the tank? Or is there a danger she will spit in favour of the food? Or do mothers stop feeding or do they even manage to eat without swallowing the brood?


 go on feeding the tank. most likely she will not eat while holding.


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

Thanks for all the advice LLoyd I will try all that. I actually thought about wearing a pair of new marigold soft rubber gloves coated in watered down stress zyme when holding her....I've seen a video were she releases eggs if u just open her mouth with one finger whilst holding her and dung her face down gently quickly and continually until she relases....however I'm pretty sure she has swallowed a couple of them as her mouth doesn't seen as large now and I can't see as many of the eggs.....she has been going round the tank nosing down into the sand tho without opening her mouth....looked odd.......

Cheers


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

karatejo said:


> ...however I'm pretty sure she has swallowed a couple of them as her mouth doesn't seen as large now and I can't see as many of the eggs.....she has been going round the tank nosing down into the sand tho without opening her mouth....looked odd.


 i would consider to intervene (strip) for two reasons: 1) you want experience handling her and her eggs, so you might as well all learn together, and 2) if she is reducing her hold, and you wait until her mouth is empty---you learn nil. stripping her now will offer you a good look at her progress to date, and even if all is still lost, offer good experience towards the next time. -good luck.


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

Thanks for all the advice mate but to be honest she's my only breeding female and I'm sh*t scared of hurting her. My expierence with Frontsa hasn't been that good over the years I've lost wild caught ones b4 simply by just moving the tank.....and I took precautions saving all water etc and making sure same ph and temp but these guys have died on me in the past....I'm scared ill give her float or something....I'm going to leave it until next spawn but I want have any new breeding females till another 18 months I reckon just bought another 10 fry want to ween out some females over the next 2 years so my big male has a plethora of girls to himself......just dead scared of taking her out mate? Anyone share my pain?


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

:fish: :fish: :fish:


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