# Awsome and unique Fish Tank



## armenhamer (Feb 21, 2008)

I came across this tank on youtube. There are actually 3 of them. I believe if you take the time to look, this will certainly be worth a discussion. go to youtube and search for, ( fish tank open bottem). Have fun!!


----------



## ~laura~ (Jan 28, 2006)




----------



## CDMOK (Mar 28, 2008)

Link to save everyone else a hassle: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fish+tank+open+bottom&search_type=

I'm not really sure how I feel about them. :-?


----------



## Rift485 (Dec 3, 2004)

I think that's a cool idea and you could do a lot more with it than he did. I especially like the music


----------



## a_c_arnold (Mar 7, 2008)

Looks like a power failure would flood your house. I would be interested in seeing some of the operational principles behind this tank. Vacuum system and air removal system.


----------



## TabMorte (Feb 5, 2008)

Wouldn't that be really hard to keep clean? Since the raised bit would spill every where if you had to open it up to clean it?


----------



## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

There was a long discussion about these before, and some people felt they were a PhotoShop creation. If you did invert a tank over another one large enough to envelop it, you would have to put the air pump inside the air space at the top of the tank, or every air bubble would displace water until the inverted tank was dry. Which means you are recycling the same air over and over depleting it of oxygen and building up CO2. :roll: Might make a great planted tank with all that CO2, but hey there's no substrate!


----------



## armenhamer (Feb 21, 2008)

I'm thinking that maybe their is an airhose running down from the upper tank air space to the bottem tank and then out into the air, equalizing the incoming air from the airstone. I'm going to try a few tests in the kichen sink with a jar. I understand the water staying in the upper tank but not when you pump in air because then you are replacing the water with air. I really don't believe it is a hoax.


----------



## jwal (Jan 17, 2008)

well from a little experiment i did in the sink ... any tubing running from the enclosed air space to the outside air would cause air from the outside to flow into the enclosed air space due to pressure differences. So, you would need an air pump removing the built up air that could prevent the backflow of air as it was removing the air. possible? probably not with a cheap aquarium air pump...


----------



## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

This is easy to explain, the air pump is located in the top section of the tank, therefore the air being pumped into the top section of the tank is not exiting the top of the tank. It iss returning to the top of the tank and the pressure is not changing.

It took me a minute to figure it out.

If the pump goes out, the pressure doesn't change either, so you don't get a flood.

The trick is filling it up. He probably had to use a powerful vacuum to remove the air in the upper tank while at the same time filling the lower tank. Once it is set-up, it isn't a problem.

Her is the catch: If the tank level falls below the bottom edge of the upper tank front glass, air will be allowed to enter the top of the tank, and the 130 liters will flood the 120 liters tank below and it only looks like he gave himself about an inch of leeway.

I'd design it so the upper tank couldn't flood my house.

Say 150 Gallons in the lower and 50 in the upper. With the 50 gallon glass extending half way into the depth of the 150. That way if the tank water ever did fall below and the front edge of the 50 and it emptied it might splash a lot, but not flood my house.

The biggest risk factor would simpyl be evaporation.


----------



## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

I thought about it more and I suppose the water would only flood the lower tank enough to fill it back up enough to create the vacuum again. So all it would really do is create more air space in the upper tank, but not flood. Then you'd have to suck out the air in the upper tank again.

So there you have it.


----------



## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

armenhamer said:


> I'm thinking that maybe their is an airhose running down from the upper tank air space to the bottem tank and then out into the air, equalizing the incoming air from the airstone. I'm going to try a few tests in the kichen sink with a jar. I understand the water staying in the upper tank but not when you pump in air because then you are replacing the water with air. I really don't believe it is a hoax.


 I think in the old discussion on this someone with video knowledge did some technical analysis which he said proved that these videos were two tracks combined in the same way you see an actor or actress carrying on a dialogue with themselves on the same screen, like Parent Trap.

As to having one pump bubbling in, and another one bubbling out, it would be impossible to balance them exactly. When my son was in junior high school, he frequently demonstrated how it was impossible to balance pumps by flooding his fish "closet" which prompty drained into his mom's walk-in closet. She would usually discover this first thing in the morning by stepping barefoot onto a saltwater soaked carpet. If I wasn't awake before, I was after! It is much more believable to have the air pump located inside the aquarium in the airspace and recirculating the same air.

Bottom line. This could be done, but not quite as it is portrayed, which appears to be faked. The thing that made me suspicious were the little things done with the net and fish to convince the viewer that this was a real setup. If it's a real setup, why would you need little tricks to convince anyone? You'd simply show the details of the system, which are assiduously avoided.

The problem with doing it is the impracticality of maintenance and its unreliability. It would be a great display at a weekend fish show, (with lots of mops and buckets close by) but would not make a permanent set up.


----------



## aaxxeell (Jul 28, 2007)

the system is based on the romaurie effect and yes it can be done, the top of the tank is sealed with a outlet port for air, the air pump is more the size of an air compressor in a closed loop, meaning the air thats sucked out the top of the tank and put back in there via the airstone so theres never a catastrphic flood.

not quite sure how to do proper waterchanges tho, +vacuming the substrate would be **** near impossible.

heres another interesting wacky tank that uses the romaurie effect slightly different:
http://thecontaminated.com/pipeline-fish-tank/


----------



## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

aaxxeell said:


> the system is based on the romaurie effect and yes it can be done, the top of the tank is sealed with a outlet port for air, the air pump is more the size of an air compressor in a closed loop, meaning the air thats sucked out the top of the tank and put back in there via the airstone so theres never a catastrphic flood.
> 
> not quite sure how to do proper waterchanges tho, +vacuming the substrate would be darn near impossible.
> 
> ...


 Yes it can be done, but not quite as pictured. The description with the video says there is a vacuum pump and an air pump, not a compressor, and a water pump for filtration. Here is a pic and details of a working inverted tank, a little different, starting with the heavy glass needed.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Romauri ... hallow-ba/


----------



## cichlid_junkie (Dec 19, 2005)

I would think that very low pressure at the top of the inverted tank would make evaporation a serious problem.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## lomax (Nov 14, 2003)

ok i figured this out in the old thread but i will repeat.

the air pump is out side the tank above the top of the upper tank.

i tube goes from the air pumps intake down under the the tank and up the back behind the back ground to the top of the inside. there it sucks in air and it goes all the way down and out to the air pump and back to the out port. then it is pushed back down and into the bottom of the tank to bubble up the the top to be sucked up one more time. if the power goes out no big deal as the air pump is above the waterline and the bottom air tube can not suck air. the only problem is the top air line HAS to have a check valve that will not let air travel into the top of the tank. it would NOT be using a plastic bendable pipe, but a stronge PVC or better a metal flex pipe like the ones used in a vacuum system in a car.

the air bubbles add no O2 to the water but are just to move the water, all aeration must be done with the lower tank. this is no different then a very deep tank with a small surface area at the top, you just need a way to mix air and water better. a over flow and a big sump system under the lower tank could deal with both the O2 problem and any overflow issues.

if you had a strong enough air compressor i could make a top tank go up and down like a huge tide  just put it on a timer !

still this is about a gimmick tank and much less about the fish.


----------



## Adrnalnrsh (Mar 18, 2008)

How to fill the upper tank.

Tell me if this sound right.

You fill the upper tank up first with the bottom up and top down. Basically open at the top. Then you sit the bottom tank on top of the upper tank upside down so the bottom tank is facing down.

Now if you turn the tanks over quickly without slipping pressure from the air that was at the top will rise to what is now the top (since it was flipped over causing a vacum effect then you can slowly start filling the bottom tank and raising the top tank.


----------



## aaxxeell (Jul 28, 2007)

nah u can have it set up like it should be and the airline at the top believe it or not can be sucked manually, or woth a strong pump, to lift the water to a desired level (use a check valve tho 

*** seen the video on you tube of the fella sucking it out manually... he looked puffed when he was done. :lol:


----------



## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Adrnalnrsh said:


> How to fill the upper tank.
> 
> Tell me if this sound right.
> 
> ...


 Yeah! Reminds me of the book about aliens building the Egyptian pyramids with anti-gravity, building them upside down on the tip and then inverting the completed pyramid. If I were to be creative, I'd do it the easy way, fill my romaurie tanks by assembling them on the bottom of a swimming pool, being careful not to bump them with my SCUBA tank. Then I'd drain the pool and remodel it into a living room. :thumb:


----------



## aaxxeell (Jul 28, 2007)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 
hahaha, McDaphnia your hilarious
:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

To pump the air out of the top of the tank would require a powerful pump because it isn't just sucking air out of the top of the tank but it is also pulling all the water up. If you put a air tube from the top of the tank to open air the tank would drain as the air tube would let air get sucked in as the water pulled it down. A traditional air pump doesn't have anywhere near the power to do this. If the vacuum pump and the incoming air pump were balanced, or if the vacuum pump only runs once in a while to suck the air out in bulk, then turns back off it wouldn't be a problem.



> I would think that very low pressure at the top of the inverted tank would make evaporation a serious problem.


I don't think it would evaporate since it is a closed top.


----------



## aaxxeell (Jul 28, 2007)

like i said before behind 1 of these tanks on you tube the pump behind the tank is shown for a few seconds and is jumbo, like an air compressor sized unit...


----------



## AF_medic (Jun 8, 2006)

everybody seems worried about evaporation with this tank. just add an automatic top off valve. you'll be spending enough on the vacuum to keep the inverted tank filled, what's a few more bucks for a little top off system? a sump added to this system would also add a measure of safety should the vacuum break on the upper tank. well, nevermind. no way an overflow could drain that much water that fast. forget I mentioned it.  :roll:


----------



## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

cichlid_junkie said:


> I would think that very low pressure at the top of the inverted tank would make evaporation a serious problem.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


whatayah mean?


----------



## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

That pipeline tank is awesome!

Anyways, what led me to believe it is a fake is so few fish in the lower tank and so many in the upper tank. Why would they all want to be in the higher tank? Fish in my experience tend to space out (At least randomly) rather than group together.

Its possible, but this is a fake.


----------



## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

acrosstic said:


> That pipeline tank is awesome!
> 
> Anyways, what led me to believe it is a fake is so few fish in the lower tank and so many in the upper tank. Why would they all want to be in the higher tank? Fish in my experience tend to space out (At least randomly) rather than group together.
> 
> Its possible, but this is a fake.


Water weighs over 8 pounds a gallon. If the pipeline contains 250 gallons of water, that is about a ton, with very little evident support other than the tank rims. Seems like more than a plastic tank frame could support.


----------



## bentcountershaft (Nov 23, 2007)

I looked at all of that guys vids and he says in the comments of one of them that the top tank has the ability to be sealed off from the bottom. Once filled, the seal is removed. The air in the top tank is just recycled from the top of it back to the bottom, no new air introduced in the top tank.

Edit: I'm referring to the original video in the thread.


----------



## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I got a new aqua lifter for a hydroponic project I'm working on. I instantly though of this thread when I looked at the back of the box and low and behold, I see this style tank listed as a 'water column'. I scanned the back of the box and it didn't come thru that well but the picture shows the inverted tank sitting in the shallow tank with a couple goldfish swimming around. This is a $10 pump alleging it can do this!


----------



## Malawidolphin (Dec 15, 2006)

Photshopped , as you can tell when he puts food in the net and seems to insert it right through the upper tank. Definately a fake. :roll:


----------



## jimgiven (Apr 24, 2008)

Easily confirmed.....email the poster to find out where he lives and ask someone from our forum to check it out....

Jim


----------



## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

Malawidolphin said:


> Photshopped , as you can tell when he puts food in the net and seems to insert it right through the upper tank. Definately a fake. :roll:


That is an illusion caused by refraction. You are watching the video from above the tank and the image of the net below the water is refracted so it appears to go through the top tank.

It might be a fake, but not because of the net appearing to go through the tank.

More info is on refraction is here http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/P ... cs/bp.html


----------

