# Venting diagram



## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

So, does anyone here know of a good link to a venting diagram for tropheus? Thinking about venting and splitting my moliro colony.


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

I know there was a link posted on here on how to vent tropheus. You can tell by the vent or the slope of their head and their lips.

Edit:
I found the link and here it is. Not the best but it gives you something to work with.


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## CichInTheMind (Feb 27, 2008)

not exactly tropheus but helpful!
http://www.malawimayhem.com/articles_venting.shtml


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

thanks for the tips dudes. :thumb:


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## Xenomorph (Aug 6, 2007)

flashg said:


> So, does anyone here know of a good link to a venting diagram for tropheus? Thinking about venting and splitting my moliro colony.


One of the easiest ways to ID Tropheus, especially at a mature age, is by the lips. Males always scrap and boast, fight so their lips are "white" from mouth locking.

I wouldn't split the colony though, safety is in numbers. :thumb:


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes I am going by the lips at the moment, but I just want to make good and sure when I separate my colony is all. (I think venting is the only sure fire way to sex them)

The reason I am thinking about separating my colony is to get some of the older dominance out.

My colony is a mixture of wild and f1 fish. Some of them are getting old and I have a good group of young guys coming up... I have 40 fish in a 125g. :wink:


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## NorthShore (Feb 3, 2006)

Ah, I have females who jawlock. I would never rely on lips alone.


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

NorthShore said:


> Ah, I have females who jawlock. I would never rely on lips alone.


Smart man! I feel the same way.


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## Xenomorph (Aug 6, 2007)

^not as much as the males and usually it's the males who display to each other all the time. Females would rarely scrap to the extent males do.


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

Xenomorph said:


> ^not as much as the males and usually it's the males who display to each other all the time. Females would rarely scrap to the extent males do.


Gerry had a female that dominated his tank. He thought it was a male until it spawned and released eggs.


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## NorthShore (Feb 3, 2006)

Actually, the two dominant fish were female. :lol: They both held territories and they both jawlocked with males who were challenging for dominance.


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## Xenomorph (Aug 6, 2007)

Probably some juiced female that had trouble understanding her place :lol: . My males are 6"+ and there's no female challenging their position. I had no such problems with the Moliros either, but I don't rule out what you're saying. I am merely saying it's less likely to be females than males. Venting would make it certain, but the initial jawlocking marks might serve to ID males within the colony.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I tend to agree with both sides on this. Most males can be spotted by behavior and body size and mouth shape but you can get a suprise. I had a "male" Sp red 5" when perchased with its mate that held a territory was pretty dominant in the tank (about 2 foot cubed) territory that 2 years later turned up carrying eggs.  . I then knew all the "females" young must have been hybrids. :? :-?

Change my mind on the sex of a few individuals in the Kasanga group for a number of individuals over the 5 years I had em.
Never vented them.

Had a dub 6" + that if you did not see the male or it looking after its young, you would be convinced was male.

Vent them to be sure. :thumb:


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## tropical_tails (Mar 22, 2006)

Even venting is not a "surefire way". The sad fact of the matter is that there is no surefire way. Its more of a proponderance of the evidence. To be mostly sure one should note color and size, watch behaviour, check lips, and vent. Then one can be about 90 percent sure; but to be 99.99 percent sure, the fish must be proven. However, even proven fish have been doumented to actually change their sex if they are in a group of all the same sex, much like an amphibian. So there really is no "surefire way".


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## geoff_tropheus (Feb 13, 2003)

In the fish over 3.5" you can vent and just about get 99% accuracy as long as you have some experience with doing so.

Here are some guidelines that will help.

The vent is the hole closest to the caudal. (the tail)

The anus is the hole closest to the head.

If the vent is the same size or smaller, or long and narrow than the anus this is almost certain to be male.

If the vent is larger or more wide or more cuped shaped it will be female.

Fish under 3.5" almost impossible.

About the only way to make mistakes are with unspawned females. That sometimes can be classified as males.

Behavoir, and physical traits that everyone has listed is good ballpark for most. If you want certainity..venting is only way in my opinion.


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## mcorbeil (Jan 16, 2007)

I always start by looking for females in the tank, they usually have what looks like a dent just above the eyes when looking at their profile. Thats the first indication, then i net them and vent them to be sure.
Here 's a pic of my Bemba's. Female on the right









The male has no "dent"above the eyes, has steeper "forehead" and of course the white lips.









opcorn: I've spent way too many hours of my life staring at these guys LOL


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

tropical_tails said:


> Even venting is not a "surefire way". The sad fact of the matter is that there is no surefire way. Its more of a proponderance of the evidence. To be mostly sure one should note color and size, watch behaviour, check lips, and vent. Then one can be about 90 percent sure; but to be 99.99 percent sure, the fish must be proven. However, even proven fish have been doumented to actually change their sex if they are in a group of all the same sex, much like an amphibian. So there really is no "surefire way".


Sexual plasisity in cichlids (males breeding as males and then changing to females or vise versa (as in many marine fish)) is a bit of an interest of mine.
Please can you give some links on the evidence for this?
I would love some of the stuff I wrote on this subject to be proved wrong. :wink:


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

tropical_tails said:


> Even venting is not a "surefire way". The sad fact of the matter is that there is no surefire way. Its more of a proponderance of the evidence. To be mostly sure one should note color and size, watch behaviour, check lips, and vent. Then one can be about 90 percent sure; but to be 99.99 percent sure, the fish must be proven. However, even proven fish have been doumented to actually change their sex if they are in a group of all the same sex, much like an amphibian. So there really is no "surefire way".


Not sure I buy this either... Where is a link to proof?


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## NorthShore (Feb 3, 2006)

While it's not directly related to fish switching sex midstream, I did recently hear a very famous diver/photographer speak to his belief that there are many species in lake tang, including tropheus, that are not necessarily one sex or the other after brooding. And that in fact it could be as long as 9-10 months before a fishes' sexuality is determined. He spoke of featherfins in particular, of which I have personal experience (non-scientific, mind you) of seemingly young females emerging as males a year down the road.


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## TitoTee (Feb 18, 2006)

There are many fish in salt water and fresh water that change sex so if Tangs are doing it - that's cool.


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## flashg (Oct 5, 2007)

I want some examples of FW fish that change sexes and a LINK to an accredited article... :fish:

I watched Jurassic Park and know that some frogs changes sexes... And dinosaurs.  :lol:


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