# 55g sump design - need your comments



## morfeus077 (May 9, 2009)

I have a 120g tank that I plan to overstock. I also have a 55g tank to use for a sump and I want to get the most out of total water capacity. Drew up a couple of plans to scale. I created an image of the scaled drawing below.

I don't care about wasted space, I want as much water as I can get out of this. The idea behind the tiered chambers is to create water disturbance and maximize oxygen exchange. Atop each of the bio ball chambers will be drilled plexi to distribute the flow evenly. Not indicated are pieces of eggcrate where needed for separation. What I would like is your comments on why this will or will not work. Thank you in advance!!!


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

looks like a good Idea. It should work.
I don't know much about sumps though


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

The sump looks good and it will work but I would incorporate a refugium for plants since you have the space for it...natural denitrator! This is the mod to your proposed sump...










Oh, and I would ditch the Sterilizer, its overkill IMO or you can leave it and only turn it on when definitely needed.

EDIT* I also forgot, you see how I changed the inlet and what follows...this is so the water is forced to go through that media but you would need to have the inlet tube (whether PVC or flex tubing)going all the way down past the media in the first chamber, I forgot to draw it in.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

You may want to consider something other than bioballs for submerged media. They are designed for a wet/dry trickle environment. Granted, any surface will work, but I suspect your matrix will have the lions share of colonizing surface as compared to the bioballs.

Otherwhise, it looks good to me. I'd do it a bit different, but you're not me 

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

I like the way you have your inlet set up. Keep the pad on top of the floss, otherwise the floss will get plugged up quickly and cause the inlet to over flow.

I think the biomedia part of the sump will need to be much bigger to accomodate enough biomedia for an overstocked 120. I don't think you're going to have that much open water space.

Looks pretty good otherwise.


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## aji1217 (Aug 22, 2009)

you could always just put some floating plants in the open area where the heater is and use that as a refugium...right?


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

aji1217 said:


> you could always just put some floating plants in the open area where the heater is and use that as a refugium...right?


Depending on the flow...you don't want too much flow for the plants.


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## morfeus077 (May 9, 2009)

Revised plan... Decided to make the tiers larger so that I could silicone both sides of the glass during assembly. Also moved the 100 micron pad below the poly fill, better to replace the poly than the pad.

Not going to use plants, but thanks for the suggestion. As for the amount of bio, I know it doesn't look like much in the drawing, but that's 5 gallons of bio balls and there will also be 2 liters of Matrix... more than plenty.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Like your revised plan more than the first. It still seems to me, you are making this harder on yourself, than it needs to be. 
Instead of a series of vertical media holders, next to each other, I would go for a single chamber with my media more spread out. Would probably work out around the same footprint, without the grief of the dividers. 
You could fab containers/baskets to hold your media for any major cleanup work. 
Do not know what kind of overhead you would be working with, so the whole "tower" thing might not work for you. 
Since your bio balls will be mostly submerged, not sure any kind of drip plate would be needed. Maybe only use enough so they are all submerged, with eggcrate on top. 
I envy you guys with(insert drawing program)skills..


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## morfeus077 (May 9, 2009)

I appreciate the replies from you all and respect that everyone has a different view of what works for them. I must also say that I'm disappointed at the disconnect from my original post which seems to be the norm on cf.

In that I mean that I asked for comments on why my plan would or would not work. The bulk of the responses seemed to be everyone's own plan, not giving a response to what I asked for.

Anyone else feel this way?


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## Nathan43 (Jul 9, 2007)

ou asked whether it would or would not work and some suggest how to make it better from their own exp/ideas. Whats the problem?


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

Rick_Lindsey said:


> You may want to consider something other than bioballs for submerged media. They are designed for a wet/dry trickle environment. Granted, any surface will work, but I suspect your matrix will have the lions share of colonizing surface as compared to the bioballs.
> 
> Otherwhise, it looks good to me. I'd do it a bit different, but you're not me
> 
> -Rick (the armchair aquarist)


I think it'll work, but I agree that you should use something other than bio balls for submerged media. I think that you'll have better results with more trickle / wet/dry action.


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## morfeus077 (May 9, 2009)

Nathan43 said:


> ou asked whether it would or would not work and some suggest how to make it better from their own exp/ideas. Whats the problem?


The problem is just like the idea behind your post, you completely miss the point! I was requesting comments on why what I'm doing would or would not work - not asking for what other people think I should do, unless you can explain why my idea wouldn't work. It's like no matter what you post, everyone's response is You should do this, or I would do that.

Quite frankly, I didn't ask what you would do, or what you think I should do - I asked for comments on why you think my idea would or would not work. Really, is it too much to ask that people would respond as such?

disappointing is all...


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

:-? Why it might not work? Maybe it needs more bio filtration. You have an elaborate design, which is quite impressive. If you didn't want anyone's ideas for improvement, why did you post the plan? :-? I did not see a bad reccomendation in all of the replies to your post. Good luck :thumb:


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## morfeus077 (May 9, 2009)

fish_addiction said:


> :-? Why it might not work? Maybe it needs more bio filtration. You have an elaborate design, which is quite impressive. If you didn't want anyone's ideas for improvement, why did you post the plan? :-? I did not see a bad reccomendation in all of the replies to your post. Good luck :thumb:


Dude, seriously...? 5 gal of bio balls and 2 L of matrix... either one will support more than 200 gallons of aquarium, notwithstanding both incorporated in my plan.

Again, you're missing my point. Never asked for suggestions or 'ideas' on "improvements" only comments on why my plan will or will not work. Can I not express a disappointment? Get over it already. :roll:

For those interested... plumbing installed, filled and it runs great! At 2" of backfill when the power is cut, that's only 5 gal draining back into the sump. Pics to come soon!


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## fish_addiction (Sep 29, 2009)

morfeus077 said:


> fish_addiction said:
> 
> 
> > :-? Why it might not work? Maybe it needs more bio filtration. You have an elaborate design, which is quite impressive. If you didn't want anyone's ideas for improvement, why did you post the plan? :-? I did not see a bad reccomendation in all of the replies to your post. Good luck :thumb:
> ...


All I meant by "not enough bio filtration" is that that type of media (bio balls) is not desiged to be submerged. You get much better bacterial growth if you use the media correctly. You obviously don't take constructive criticism well, so here is a reason why it WILL work: Lots of sump capacity :thumb:


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

Ok....yeah, it will probably work. That better?

We just added ways that would help it work better. If you're going to the bother of building it, why not build the best design you can? That's the beauty of the forum, other people will see things differently than you will, and can add suggestions. If you don't want other opinions, be more specific. Make it a poll, and make the options yes or no.

Good luck with the build, post pics when you are done.


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## morfeus077 (May 9, 2009)

fish_addiction said:


> All I meant by "not enough bio filtration" is that that type of media (bio balls) is not desiged to be submerged. You get much better bacterial growth if you use the media correctly. You obviously don't take constructive criticism well, so here is a reason why it WILL work: Lots of sump capacity :thumb:





mithesaint said:


> If you don't want other opinions, be more specific...


Now we're getting somewhere! See, I get that people want to say whey they would do and all... What I asked for, and I feel like I was specific was why it would or would not work. I asked for comments in that qualification. You think something is wrong, tell me what's wrong before you suggest what I should do to fix it. Oh, and be prepared to back it with something.

I get that some say bio balls should not be submerged, where's the research or info? I would counter with this... Take a marineland canister for example, which has bio balls in it, or other canisters with other bio media... either way, they are fully submerged and work well.

Correct me if I'm wrong... the whole idea behind not fully submerging your bio balls is that the trickle down them is for oxy/gas exchange. You want to maximize the available oxygen for the bacteria to thrive. The way I see it, if I'm able to fully saturate the water prior to it getting to the bio, I'm good. You'll soon see how I accomplish this. Additionally, the actual sump differs slightly from the drawing in that about 1/2 of my bio balls should be above the operating water level.

Again, I did invite comments within the constraints of how my plan would or would not work and I welcome ANY idea prefaced as such. If there's a problem, show me where the problem is rather than tell me what I should be doing... that's all I'm asking.

Thanks again for your posts! :thumb: pics soon...


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## Malawi_Junkie (Nov 26, 2009)

Everyone agrees it will work! your just making harder than it has to be. Just build it already and figure out for yourself that it is overkill (K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid)


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I'll depart a little from the general consensus and say that for the intentions of using this sump to support an overstocked aquarium, this design will not work. Lighten the bioload and you might not notice its flaws. Some things that would support an overstocked tank, increased volume in the sump, reverse sand filter, tower for the bioballs, mechanical filtration pad, in line water storage for added volume and for doing water changes, have the UV last thing before water is returned to the tank, use eelgrass in the refugium on a reverse lighting schedule to the tank, add a denitrator block or coil.

When you have lots of fish, whether because of multiple tanks or overstocking, disease pathogens are more likely so a UV or ozone sytem that sterilizes the return water is valuable. Increased water volume is invaluable to stabilize water parameters, whether you make a sump with a pond liner inside the stand, or use some 100 or 300 gallon Rubbermaid livestock tanks plumbed into the system from a remote area. A reverse sand filter (fluidized bed filter) is a great biofilter that rebounds quickly to changes in the system load. Be sure water entering it is well oxygenated. You can create an air curtain under the bioballs which is just as effective as a tower and can be more energy efficient if the water is not lifted as far because of the change, but lifting the bioballs above the water line opens up space down in the sump for something else, and takes less maintenance than accessing and replacing clogged airstones. It would take a radical design change, moving the sump up and behind the tank to get that air curtain energy savings. A mechanical filtration pad or filter sock that is changed out daily removes organic wastes before they have to be broken down by biological action. It should be right where the water from the tank enters the sump system in a spot easily accessed. A water storage sump or dual sump system allows you to keep the system running while components are undergoing maintenance. The empty sump can be set up with all the filters while off line and then put into service in tandem then the old one can be serviced. Just as an empty water storage tank, it reduces the stress of sudden water changes and changes in water levels in the main tank. Changes in an overstocked system usually stress the inhabitants or challenge the status quo of the tank's social order resulting in possible confrontations and injury. Eel grass grows well in a current and is a fast grower. It is easy to harvest older leaves and remove some overcrowded plants. The reverse lighting can in theory keep CO2 levels more stable in the system, but in practice it does not because plants absorb CO2 24/7 contrary to popular myth so it is more just to use electricity at offpeak hours than having an effect on water parameters. The denitrator will however keep water parameters more level between water changes so that the fish don't experience as many extremes. I hope I didn't nip many fins! (=step on many toes)


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## wheatbackdigger (May 11, 2008)

morfeus077 said:


> Revised plan... Decided to make the tiers larger so that I could silicone both sides of the glass during assembly. Also moved the 100 micron pad below the poly fill, better to replace the poly than the pad.
> 
> Not going to use plants, but thanks for the suggestion. As for the amount of bio, I know it doesn't look like much in the drawing, but that's 5 gallons of bio balls and there will also be 2 liters of Matrix... more than plenty.


You need to redesign the last two baffles to the chamber containing your pumps. If you are using a HOB style overflow and loose the siphon, you will drain 80 percent of the sump back into the display tank. It's a simple change in the design, but would be much more effective should something happen to your siphon. One of the last two baffles should be close to the height of the water and extend to the bottom of the sump. I wish I could explain, but it's easier to show on paper

Good Luck
Doug


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

in my opinion i would have the outflow of water go through your polyfill, then through the drip plate over the bio-balls(which should not be submerged), then through your micron sponge. seachem last followed by another micron sponge, then your return pumps. no need for uv in my opinion.


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