# Finally Pics of my Umbee and Dovii!



## trimac

First time doing this so exuse the lighting. They are in a 240 gallon tank with two 350 
Watt Heaters, two Emperor 400s, and two Magnum 350s! So hope you like the pics!








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## gage

nice fish


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## lil mama

Sweet set up! Nice cabinet too....we have a custom cabinet shop  Beautiful fish, what size are they?


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## bernie comeau

Nice set up and awesome umbie!


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## trimac

Thanks-Wow thought I'd get more comments? The Umbee in my estimate is around 10-11 inches and the Dovii is 4 inches-I have had the Umbee for 13 months I got him from Rapps he was only 1/2 an inch-I kid you not and the Dovii I got from a LFS a month ago it was around two inches and was going to be gar food so I saved it! You folks think it is possible to put anything else? I do have a 1032 gallon pond on stand by!


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## trimac

I guess my fish must suck! Wow! Surprising!


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## illy-d

I can't tell which fish is which from the photos... Except that the last pic seems to be of a much smaller fish...

It looks like the tank is divided? Is that the case?


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## trimac

The first few are my Umbee the really small one is my dovii-that is why I would prefer Umbee over Dovii-Dovii tend to be more shy where as the Umbee is more of a wet pet with an awesome personality-I plan on updating in 4 months by then the Dovii will be a lot larger-yes I do have a divider I just don't trust my Umbee he thinks he owns the whole living room :lol:


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## heylady

> yes I do have a divider


See now you could have passed that off as a reflection to me!! :lol: Nice big tank, love the cabinetry - nice fish too!  Do you think your umbee is a female?


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## stuckinthemiddle

what are the dimensions on that tank? It looks awesome


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## trimac

I think the Umbee is male being the fact that he started at 1/2 an inch and is around 11 inches now-females don't grow as fast that is why I am assuming it is male
stuckinthemiddle-thanks a lot! first time taking pictures-it will get better-the dimensions are 8 feet long 2 feet wide and 2 feet high-I also have a 1032 gallon pond on standby-so do you folks think a Jag and Pike would be nice to add?


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## bernie comeau

trimac said:


> You folks think it is possible to put anything else? I do have a 1032 gallon pond on stand by!


I have no personal experience with umbie and I think probably few who frquent this forum do either. But me, personally I would attempt to house fish with it; don't think its all that different, longterm, then housing fish with a dovii. But with 1000 gallon on stand by, you got an awesome set up :thumb:

A large lugabris-type pike,I think, is a definate option. Different body shape and not as closely related to either. Not quite as sturdy but offensively capable; not too easily pushed around and very fast. I would tend to shy away from a jag, since you already have a dovii, but it is an option. For another CA I would consider salvini. Also large Veija/Paratheraps such as blackbelt or maybe zonatus, though I have no personal experience with zonatus, just it has the reputation as the tougher more aggressive Vieja/Paratheraps.

Some kind of large African may be an option, though it is my understanding that Tilapia/Oreochromis are not legal in Texas now (?). That eliminates a large group of potential tankmates. Even though they are smaller, I would consider Hemichromis elongatus or Hemichromis fasciatus (gets a little larger and is supposed to be more aggressive yet) as an options. I have no experience with either, but they certainly have the reputation to be able to live in tanks with the largest, most aggressive CA/SA. H. frempongi is another, almost identicle species but is thought to not get quite as large nor quite as aggressive.

A black shark would be top of my list to work well with these 2 cichlids. Its the worst of all bullies if a fish is not willing to stand up to it, but I doubt either of your fish would ever have problems with that at any point in its life. I know my blackshark never mesed with my female dovii; on the other hand cichlids generally concerned themselves more with other cichlids then they did with the black shark. Of course at a very small size, a black shark is not that capable either, so the black shark could have a problem if it gets picked on enough by the cichlids.

For bottom feeder, raphael cat and/ or common pleco are options. There are many other bottom feeders/catfish that might do well with umbie or dovii, although i am not familiar with them. I had much success keeping marbled goby with aggressive CA/SA though that is a bottom dweller (a piscivore) and not a bottom feeder --- they are slow moving and need to be fed with a tube in order to get food to their mouths.

Tinfoil barbs are another option, if you have enough of them like 3-4 or more.They might take some abuse but if there is enough of them, no one in particular will get picked on. Sturdy for a non-cichlid though not always sturdy enough for cichlids like umbie or dovii. It would all depend on just how much attention is directed towards them.

Like any tank, all depends on many factors, how well tankmates work and get a long. For introduction, I would be inclined to remove the dovii temporarily, introduce at least 4 tankmates at once on the dovii side, re-arrange some decor before putting the dovii back in, and move the devider 1 ft. into the umbie's side. Remove the devider later , only supervised, and see if things seem to work O.K. And when the time comes or you have to, move some fish over into the pond. Your umbie, or dovii, you may want them to be the last to go into the pond as compared to something like tinfoil barbs which may need to be the first the first in order to get established.


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## thetim6

WOW, that's a huge tank!

I love the umbee. It's not a fish you see very often and you might be the only one on these boards that keeps one currently, or one of few.


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## Big Vine

Nice setup, trimac...can't wait to see you fill it in with some more big brutes! 8) 
BV


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## trimac

Thanks Big Vine and tim6
Bernie wow you read my mind I too was thinking Black Shark and Tinfoil Barbs!! Has anyone heard of Variegated Shark-though they are listed as maxing out at 6 inches that is so untrue I had one that reached two feet-I agree with not adding a Jag since I already have a Parachromis-don't you folks think that a Salvini would get eaten?? Though I really love Salvini-beauty of a fish but I worry about total size compared to the other two fish?


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## bernie comeau

trimac said:


> don't you folks think that a Salvini would get eaten?? Though I really love Salvini-beauty of a fish but I worry about total size compared to the other two fish?


No they definately wouldn't get eaten. Yes, they are definately a lot smaller, then dovii or umbie but do get to a good size. I've had 2 males get 8", the first male I had for about 4 years; lost it when a valve let go on an automatic water changing sysyem that I had set too high, that I use to use. It was a very large fish for 8", super deep bodied and thick. One female salvini survived the hot water when the valve let go, and I had her for over 5 yrs.; she died, along with her young mate, when I moved, in a tote I had set up. She was 7 1/2" and very thick, though not deep bodied like a male. She had paired up with a young male ( possibly her son?) who also got to 8" but was much smaller at the younger age he was, then his dad. This pair had no problem, whatsoever, defending space from a young 12-13" dovii in a 6 ft. 180 gal. This pair's son, who is currently 7 5/8", coexisted fine with the same male dovii who tolerated him in a 180 gal. - that is until the sal got caught for the second time eating the dovii's fry and I had to remove him.

Sal's use the terrain to their advantage, and are like cons --- they can do very well defending space from larger fish. Their sturdier then cons, their bite far more serious and have great ability to jump out of the way at the last second and deliver a blow at the same time. I think in a 1000 gal. you could keep a pair with a dovii or umbie, and although sals are pushy for space, I doubt they would claim, push or demand nearly as much space as a dovii or umbie would.

I guess the thing is, you would probably want your sals to be a little older and more developed. Maybe they should be the first to go in your 1000 gal. pond in order to get established if you are going to house salvinis. I think in bigger tanks, it is not inconceivable that a male sal could get 10"+ eventually.


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## trimac

I like the idea-let the weaker species establish the tank first then add my two beasts.
I currently have a small red pike cichlid and a black belt that I will add when they get bigger so hopefully I could send pics of those fish. A Sal getting 10 inches would be awesome!!


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## illy-d

^I read somewhere that Sal's live with larger guapotes in the wild and are quite adept at standing up to them... And from everything I've heard about Black Belts they can 'run' a tank with larger, aggressive tankmates... It may be that your big beasts are going to be kept in check by their smaller tankmates! :lol:

Be sure to get some pics posted of that 1,000 pond - I'd love to see it!


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## TheFishGuy

I'd advise against a black shark. I hate to say that because I really like them. But your fish could definately be in danger of getting their scales sucked off. Black sharks are nasty when they get big... I had an 11 incher kill a 30" arowana :x

They're chasers.....

I do love the umbee, he's a great looking fish, and no doubt understocking is definatetly the way to go!


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## trimac

Thanks-I agree with you strongly on understocking I think a lot of the time people don't grasp the full size of these fish and don't take into consideration not just the length but the "girth" of these monsters!


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## trimac

I purchased a Red Pike Cichlid-I think it will do well-any recommendations-right now he is in a 30 gallon grow out tank.


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## dwarfpike

Red pikes are _usually_ the common name for Cr. johanni ... which can reach 12+ inches so should be fine ... at least they are with jags and such. Thick heavy fish.


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## bernie comeau

Just another possible option, from my perspective quite similar to a tinfoil barb, is a bala shark. I have never kept them in groups but I did keep one large one with male tiger cichlid (Tilapia mariae), male texas and female jag amongst other cichlids, as well as later with a large pair of breeding oscars. Like a lot of fish their a little feeble when they are young, but get sturdy when older. Mine got 16" at around 5-6 yrs. old. They mind their own business and are not very aggressive but are actually fairly capable for a non-cichlid. Very little friction ever occurred between my bala shark and cichlids but my bala shark did defeat both my large oscars in a scrap once and he continued to use the entire upper area of a 180 gal. for swimming space as the oscars laid their eggs. This pair of oscars was only successful once, when I removed them and gave them there own tank. I've had a few pairs of oscars lay eggs in the community tank but either cons or mbuna ate their eggs, sometimes while the eggs were actually being laid :lol: My oscars were just to slow and instilled little to no fear in their tankmates.

IMO and IME, a pike would benefit from some chopped up frozen fish (such as jack mackeral, sardine, salmon etc.) in addition to pellets. Almost all fishes, IME, do benefit from this, but I think a pike does a little more so. Of course it is not a nessessity, as pellets alone can be suffecient for most fishes.


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## trimac

How does this sound-eventually in my pond not the 240 gallon
1. Umbee
2. Dovii
3. Red Pike and dwarfpike you are absolutely right it is a johanni :thumb: 
4. I know I shouldn't but I really wan't a Jag
5. Black Belt or P. Bass certainly not the Temenesis
and a school of T. Barb and a school of Bala Shark-I was thinking the same thing as you were yesterday concerning the Balas-(Bernie) Though I know Black Sharks can be mean don't you think the cichlids could handle it? I guess I miss having a Black Shark?


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## trimac

I actually fed him sardines this morning and I plan on also using shrimp. :thumb:


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## Nathan43

Kudos Trimac, looks awesome.


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## bernie comeau

trimac said:


> Though I know Black Sharks can be mean don't you think the cichlids could handle it?


Based on my own experience with a large black shark, I really can't see male umbie or male dovii having any problem defending against a black shark. IMO, not likely.

IME, my black shark was subordinate to both my female doviis and much older female RD. Beleive me, if the black shark could have bossed them around, it would have. A black shark can charge and whack hard with it's head but it has a sucker mouth and really isn't capable of doing the kind of damage the way large cichlids can. One good hit from something like a dovii, and a bully like that is usually put in its place awfully quick. My male BB did get harassed at one time by the black shark, but later stood up to it, and the black shark never bothered it after that. Of course the BB may have been constrained because it was subordinate to the dovii and RD.










This is an early picture of my 180 gal., around 1986. It's a horrible picture and you have to look closely to even see the fish. It's been photoshopped ---- lightened so that you can actually see the fish, otherwise it showed nothing but black. I had 2 female dovii at the time, though I barely remember both female dovii being in the same tank as I didn't have it that way too long. From left to right: female dovii , black shark in between dovii, female dovii, female RD, male port acara, and male black belt at far right. In the cave below is a marbled goby, and a RBP is on the far left side as well as 2 male cons in the caves, that are not visible. The black shark did harass the RBP, at times to a rediculous extent, but an RBP is a fish that is sometimes, though not always, overly timid. In a later period my much heavier blackshark was no match and was subordinate to my male Trimac, who was boss of the tank ( after RD was removed fro breeding purposes). My blackshark fought a lot, in this latter period, with a younger and much lighter male mozambique.

I can't disagree with TFG, that a black shark is potentially a problem fish. But you got both a 1000 gal. pond and a 240 gal. tank ----- infinately better then a 6 ft. 180 gal. for a black shark. And really, it's male umbie and male dovii that are probably the most difficult fishes to house with any tankmates. Now how a black shark might treat a group of tinfoil barbs and/or bala sharks, even in a 1000 gal. ------ I dunno


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## trimac

Nathan-thanks! :thumb: 
So no one here has ever heard of a Varagated Shark-Awesome fish similar to a Black Shark but has an awesome mottling color of yellow and black-so what do you guys think of the idea of a P. Bass ???


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## trimac

Bernie-what is a mozmbique-is it American or African cichlid?


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## bernie comeau

trimac said:


> Bernie-what is a mozmbique-is it American or African cichlid?


A Mozambique is Oreochromis mosambicus. It is an African cichlid and a mouth brooding "Tilapia".

I have to give my opinion and experience with black shark as I really do think it is less risky and has a better chance of making it with male umbie and male dovii, then say something such as tinfoils or balas. Everything is risky with either cichlid, so when it really comes down to it, what has the best chance to make it and do well is what you should consider. Balas and tinfoils are options to consider, but me personally I probably would be a little leary of attemting to house either of them with male umbie or male dovii, and if I did, I don't think I would want too many of them as they are large fish that could get in the way. Though it is my understanding that some people have had success housing tinfoils with male umbie and male dovii, though I do not know for how long of a period of time it worked. I had a tinfoil barb and bala shark with aggressive CA/SA and Tilapia/Oreochromis, though they were "lesser" fishes then your two cichlids are potentially.

Never owned a pbass, so I wouldn't know what its chances are. But at least it wouldn't be battling for supremacy of your tank!


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## illy-d

I'm gonna throw something out there that I know a few people keep with their Arrowannas - the Silver Prochilodus???

Apparently they are fast and actually do a good job of cleaning up fish waste...

I have no experience with this fish - but if your looking at tinfoil barbs or balas you may want to look at these guys and see if they would work for you with your fish.


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## trimac

illy-d could you show some pics or more info?


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## TheFishGuy

I've never kept pbass for more than a week.... In my expereince they're picky eaters :lol: Thank God he was adopted quickly!


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## trimac

I had an Ocellaris back in the day and was pretty much impossible to wean him off feeders almost died-but very attractive fish and goes crazy for feeders!


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## trimac

Alright I was inspired by TFG and I am going to attempt the following stock
all male
Dovii
Umbee
Jag
Red Pike
True Festae
Barred Midas
Black Belt
Trimac
Red Devil-why not I have a 1032 gallon pond-just picture how awesome it would look to have 9 male beasts in a pond that size!!


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## trimac

Here's the thing in the past I have been able to keep anywhere from 3-5 of the above fish in my 240 gallon so why not the pond? One point to make is I have always had Female Dovii and Umbee-the only thing that I am concerned with is the fact the Umbee and Dovii I have now are male-but in a pond that big I think the other 7 should be okay-if not I could put them in my 240 what do you folks think?


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## TheFishGuy

I think you're nuts.... I like it 

The only thing I'm attempting differently is I'm raising them all together.... BUT the area of your pond is larger than my measily 42 square feet......

You've really got to get yourself a camera man... I'll sell you my old kodak, it's got a dock for easy transfers and I might even have the installation disk 

I need pictures man... I really do.... from you.... Oh yeah, and I need $$ :lol:


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## trimac

I already have 3 small Jags with my Red Pike and I am supposed to be getting 3 small Black Belts today-here's the plan
Grow out the pike, jag, and black belt in the 55 gallon grow out tank once they reach around 5-6 inches put the three males in the pond-then put 3 red terrors and 3 barred midas in my 55 gallon-let them grow-put them in my pond-in the meantime the dovii and umbee will stay in the 240 gallon-then get 3 trimacs and 3 red devils let them grow put them in my pond-finally after 8-9 months I will move the umbee and dovii to the pond-the reason for them being last is that they are larger and more aggressive this will give the other 7 a chance to form a pecking order and in my opinion will heighten their chances of living with a male dovii and umbee! Wow that was a lot!


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## TheFishGuy

I've got a six inch pike if you don't want to wait


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## trimac

Fishguy-Actually I take pride in raising them on my own the smaller the better-It's just me but I feel if I get a fish over 4 inches I don't feel as attached!


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## dwarfpike

Am the same way trimac. :thumb:


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## TheFishGuy

Me too, but four is too many :lol:


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## trimac

Are Red Pikes supposed to be real aggressive-cause mine dominates the three jags I have-plus my red pike grows fast and eats anything-shrimp, sardines, flakes-awesome fish!


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## dwarfpike

Compared to other pikes, red's aren't bad. But are fast growers even compared to jags ... the jags will even him/her out as they get bigger, but it's not surprising to have the pike ruling atm.


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## trimac

I am having a hard time getting a Black Belt -what about a Vieja Argenta instead?


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## TheFishGuy

I think any Vieja would fair well...


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## trimac

Cool cause the guy in my area doesn't seem to want to help-always gives me the run around-and the only company on the net that has Black Belts charges a lot!! I don't know I was also thinking P. Bass but it bites cause I had my heart set on Black Belt anyone know where I could get one online?


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