# SO MANY CICHLIDS... how do we choose???



## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

greetings,

My husband and I jumped in head first to change out our Discus tank to now host Cichlids. I dont know where to start, how to start.  I need a crash course in creating a fun tank without the fish killing each other. 
Here is what we have: 90 gallon tall, just bought Texas Rock for holes/hidding places, black substrate, fake planted take with lots of hiding places. A T5 2 bulb lighting hood. temp 82.

What can I keep in the tank with them first? We dont want really mean fish, we want ones that are awesome in colors but arent not going to to destroy each other. Now, our LF person well, we have a few are all telling us different. Some say the Africans are more aggressive, some say the South Americans are.... I am so confused.. And then which fish fall under that term???

So right now, we did put our 4 okay size ballon rams into the tank with 7 new cichlids... will they survive? We have a bristlenose which is about 4 inches in there.. and we have 5 large Clown loaches.....

We want to keep our Bosha Loaches in there too(zebra stripped ones lol) they are a good size... is that okay??

We just bought two Moorie ones with the blue/grey striped pattern (suppose to have a red head or line?) we bought three of the Auratus yellows. are those ones mean????

My hubby is going this weekend to get more, but I want to make sure we get the right ones.... please is there any easy breakdown, while we are shopping for fish to make this a semi peaceful tank??? thanks all for the help.. :dancing:


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Take The Auratus Back Now If You Don't Want Any Fish Getting Killed - They Are Among The Meanest African Cichlids You Can Get. This Post Should Probably Be Moved To The General Forum, Unless You Already Have Specific Fish That You Need Help Identifying.


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## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

thanks.. how do I move the thread?


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

A moderator will do it when they see it. The general african cichlids forum would probably be the best place to get stocking advice. That or the Lake Malawi forum, but it doesn't sound like you're convinced that you want to go with Malawi cichlids exclusively...


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## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

I want to understand the temperment of my choices. Such as how do they break down cichlid groups, and can they be mixed? and who is more aggressive.... so I dont know lol....


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Sunshinetlb, Welcome to C-F!

I'll leave your post here for now since you are unsure what cichlids you will be stocking.

You need to decide what cichlids you want to build around for your 90G tank. Are there any particular species that you are interested in and that are available to you locally? It would be most helpful if you can post the scientific name rather than the common name as many fish use similar names. There is a section at the top of the page called Species Profiles, click on that and there are some drop down menus that will take you to Malawi, Tanganyika, South & Central American, etc cichlids. You can read through the general descriptions with photos to preview what the fish look like.

Clown loaches will get very large and aren't really suitable for a 90G long term.

What are the dimension of your 90G aquarium? Also, how long has the tank been set up and what type of filtration are you using, brand & model is helpful?


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## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

we use three . two sponge filters and HOB Fluval 500. We had Discus and they required much care and good water. Our tank is a tall so its about 4 feet tall and maybe 3 feet long and about 18 inches wide? somewhere in there. We have had the tank up and running for over a year. like I said we had community tank and now have cleared it out for Cichlids.

We are so new to it, we dont even know which group has the best colors and (sizes to stay within range). I know we dont want oscars or live eating ones. we want to build a nice community to enjoy watching them do their thing lol...

I will go and look at the things you said and hope I can get a better feel. thanks again.


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## Sparrow19 (May 31, 2013)

I'm not at all a pro at this, and there are many other better qualified people on here who know far more than I do, so take it for what its worth.
With that size tank, you should be able to add several different species. I'd just suggest making it an all MALE tank. Also don't add two of the same kind, usually more aggression within the same fish. Most go with either an all Mbuna, or do a Peacock/Hap combo. Mbuna tend to be much more aggressive as they get older. If you look at the "Species Profiles", you can see which fish belong to which category. Scroll down to the "lake Malawi" group. You can see the scientific name, common name, and a picture.

I have a 75g now, and about 15-20 all male, all different. Few are about 3-4", few are less than that, and one is about 6". I have no aggression at all, but might get some as they get bigger. In which I'll rehome to my fathers 200g tank, or sell back to the fish store.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Actually, Tall Tanks Aren't Very Ideal For African Cichlids - They Claim Their Territory On The Floor Of The Tank, So Even Though It's A 90 Gallon Tank, The Extra Height Doesn't Do Much Good. It Would Help If You Could Provide The Exact Dimensions - Then We Would Be Able To Make Better recommendations. If It's Really Only 36" Long, That Will Limit Your Choices Pretty Significantly...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Look in the Library, Cookie Cutter tanks and match your tank size by dimensions (by length really) not gallons. A 36" tank tank is not suitable for clown loaches, auratus, moorii, etc.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

It sounds like you're wanting to know how different types of cichlids are grouped together. It mostly has to do with the region in which they occur naturally, and which habitat within that region they live in. For example, you have old world cichlids (African), and new world (central and south American).

African cichlids are then further divided into groups according to their region of origin - many are from the rift valley lakes (Lakes Victoria, Tanganyika, and Malawi), but others are from the river systems of west Africa (the Congo river, etc.), while others still are from Madagascar.

Then they are assigned to smaller groups based on the specific habitats they inhabit in each region and their natural behaviors - Lake Malawi cichlids, for example, are generally divided into 3 groups: mbuna (rock dwelling species that typically feed on algae), peacocks (brightly colored fish that generally prefer more open water in the intermediate zone), and haps (generally larger species that prefer open water and are carnivorous). There are of course exceptions to how certain species are grouped (for example, some haps prefer the rocky areas to open water because that's where their food source is), and it takes time to learn the distinguishing characteristics of each type.

Cichlids from other regions are divided similarly - some south American species are from the Amazon basin, etc. The library section on this site is a great source for info on all types of cichlids. Before you go out and just buy what looks cool, I suggest you do as much research as possible to make sure you end up with fish you can properly care for. Not all cichlids can be housed together (SA and CA generally don't work well with Africans, and Lake Malawi cichlids generally don't work well with Lake Tanganyikan cichlids, etc.). It will make the hobby much more enjoyable for you, and allow your fish to live happy, healthy lives.

I hope this is helpful! Welcome to the world of cichlids!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

If you're aiming for Lake Malawi, and your tank is 36 x 18, then it should be stocked like a 40 breeder. The tank is not ideal, and would be wasted IMO.

+1 on removing the auratus. Remove the Moorii as well, regardless if its the Hap or Tropheus. People have trouble with auratus in a 6' tank.

Best idea is to get another tank, with a minimum length of 4'. If you have room for a 55, get a 75. The extra depth is key.

How do you clean the bottom of a tank that's 4' tall? I would drown! :-?


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## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

nmcichlid-aholic said:


> It sounds like you're wanting to know how different types of cichlids are grouped together. It mostly has to do with the region in which they occur naturally, and which habitat within that region they live in. For example, you have old world cichlids (African), and new world (central and south American).
> 
> African cichlids are then further divided into groups according to their region of origin - many are from the rift valley lakes (Lakes Victoria, Tanganyika, and Malawi), but others are from the river systems of west Africa (the Congo river, etc.), while others still are from Madagascar.
> 
> ...


wow.. great info and yes what i was looking for. that breaks it down in good terms so at least we can get started with our groups.. and know our options... thanks :dancing:


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## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> If you're aiming for Lake Malawi, and your tank is 36 x 18, then it should be stocked like a 40 breeder. The tank is not ideal, and would be wasted IMO.
> 
> +1 on removing the auratus. Remove the Moorii as well, regardless if its the Hap or Tropheus. People have trouble with auratus in a 6' tank.
> 
> ...


 lOL.. a ladder, in which I can just reach the bottom...

My husband told me today our exact tank measurements... 48 L x 18 W x 30 ish H


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

sunshinetlb said:


> My husband told me today our exact tank measurements... 48 L x 18 W x 30 ish H


So if the footprint of your tank is 48" x 18", you can look at the cookie cutter setups for a 75 gallon tank to get ideas of possible combinations that will work. Those dimensions are much better than a tank that's only 36" long - many more options as for which fish you can keep.

So now you should look through the library section and online and decide if you want to go with central or south American cichlids, African cichlids (and if so, from which lake), or something else. Read up on the requirements as far as filtration, water quality and condition (hardness, PH, etc.), types of food required, etc., so you'll know how difficult/easy it will be for you to provide the right environment for the fish you are considering. I mean if you live in an area that has hard, alkaline water, it may not make sense to keep fish that require soft, acidic water. You would have to consider adding additional equipment just to get the right kind of water. All these things are important to consider when setting up a tank.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

48 x 18? HUGE difference. So many more options.


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## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

Thank you so much for all the information...

so we decided to go with Africians... Our fish people here are helping us too and are guiding us to some that we can mix from Malawi and Tang lake... we are trying to go with the fish that are not down right killers to be killers.... so with that said ... looking over some of the photos in the library and learning more...... where do the Tropheous (sp?) fall into the mix??? they are soooooooo beautiful and I would like to try and have some of them in the mix? is that possible?.... and is any Electric colored one going to have a fair time with our mix... so far we did purchase...

and all these guys are very small:
1 venustus 
2 Zebra Calvus
2 Peacocks
2 Frontosas
1 blue dolphin looking one
3 juliochromis dickiefeld
2 bala sharks

I want some fish with deep colors.... ( I love those electric yellows..... but are they born killers to just hunt out our fish and kill them or is it one of those ...maybes)?


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## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> 48 x 18? HUGE difference. So many more options.


lol... yeah I had a brain fart... lol....


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Just an FYI, I noticed you keep saying you had Discus and now are starting a Cichlid tank, Discus are cichlids too. I think what you mean is that you are moving from South American cichlid to African cichlid, this would be a lot less confusing.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I think you made some poor choices on stocking your tank. Bala sharks can get over 12" long and are extremely active fish. The venustus is also an aggressive fish and will get upward of 8" and will probably eat any fish that it can fit in its mouth. Calvus are very slow growers and tend to be shy and may not get enough to eat as the other fish mature much faster. Frontosa will also not be appropriate in the mix you currently have.

I recommend returning the Tanganyika cichlids and concentrate on stocking Malawi fish. Labidochromis caeruleus would be a good choice to replace the Tangs.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Deeda said:


> I think you made some poor choices on stocking your tank. Bala sharks can get over 12" long and are extremely active fish. The venustus is also an aggressive fish and will get upward of 8" and will probably eat any fish that it can fit in its mouth. Calvus are very slow growers and tend to be shy and may not get enough to eat as the other fish mature much faster. Frontosa will also not be appropriate in the mix you currently have.
> 
> I recommend returning the Tanganyika cichlids and concentrate on stocking Malawi fish. Labidochromis caeruleus would be a good choice to replace the Tangs.


Agreed. Make the changes now to avoid catastrophes later. What did you do with the Auratus and Moorii?


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Pass On The Tropheus - Considering The Other Fish You've Already Listed, They Won't Make Good Additions. They Do Best When Kept In A Single Species Tank In A Large Group (Around Twenty Individuals), And They Have Specific Diet Requirements That Can Cause Them To Get Sick And Die When Not Met. As I Mentioned In My Previous Post, Just Because All Of These FishYou Listed Are African Cichlids, It Doesn't Mean They Are Compatible - Mixing Species From Different Lakes Is Usually aA Bad Idea.


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## dstuer (Mar 27, 2013)

nmcichlid-aholic said:


> Pass On The Tropheus - Considering The Other Fish You've Already Listed, They Won't Make Good Additions. They Do Best When Kept In A Single Species Tank In A Large Group (Around Twenty Individuals), And They Have Specific Diet Requirements That Can Cause Them To Get Sick And Die When Not Met. As I Mentioned In My Previous Post, Just Because All Of These FishYou Listed Are African Cichlids, It Doesn't Mean They Are Compatible - Mixing Species From Different Lakes Is Usually aA Bad Idea.


Agree, most of the fish you list above are carnivores, or at least mainly carnivorous.
Tropheus are mainly algae eating vegetarians, but if housed with carnivores tend to gorge themselves on meaty foods, bloat and die.
As said, they also do best in large single species groups, with no other cichlids in the tank. 
Aulonacara are fairly peaceful, and would probably do OK with the Lamprologus.


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## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

HI All,

okay have been so busy lately, I havent been able to come on here. We have been busy learning all about the Africian chiclids, what is okay, what is iffy, trial and error and what just will not work... so I will give it my best shot as what we have stocked our tank with now..

We upgraded to a 125 6ft long,so they can grow and have floor space.

We are doing a little mix and have a GREAT LF guy who knows a lot about our fish. I know everyone has a different story, or what worked and what didnt. I guess fish are like people they all have a different personality. So we are watching our tank at nights to see if anyone gets pissey with others..

I tried to upload photos, but didnt have any luck yet... (help?) 
FORGIVE ME IN ADVANCE, FOR BAD SPELLING, WRONG NAMES... we did get rid of mooris and ventustes and mean ones

We have, 4 monos, 2 bala sharks, 2 blue frontosas, Chulumba, german red p, sunshine peacock, mason p, twian reef, 4 calvuses, 4 julishromis dickifelds,
azurus hap, yellow chin savani (?), euchilus, Red Cap lethrinops (?), mloto fireline, 4 clown loaches, 2 yoyo loaches, 2 pictus cats, 2 spotted cats, 1 firemouth eel, 1 tiny electric blue Jack Dempsy, 4 pelcos, OB peacock, Stawberry P. , 2 electric yellow, tang goby, ( a long black and yellow striped guy, forgot his name, but I was told he will very mean possibly, I call him bumblebee but he eats all our snails). will he kill our peacocks??

I have large barbs in there right now and 3 odessa barbs.. i have heard though that they will get killed in time when the chiclids get large, is this true?


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## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

walzon1 said:


> Just an FYI, I noticed you keep saying you had Discus and now are starting a Cichlid tank, Discus are cichlids too. I think what you mean is that you are moving from South American cichlid to African cichlid, this would be a lot less confusing.


yes, sorry about that.. I know discus are chiclids too... just not as aggressive like the others... 

thanks for the feedback


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Wow... I Wish You Luck. So Many Potential Issues With That List That I Don't Know Where/How To Begin. One Piece Of Advice I Will Provide Is To Completely Cover Every Opening Of Your Tank, Including Filter Intake And Output, If You Intend To Keep The Eel - They Are True Escape Artists And Will Slip Into Any Tiny Opening They Can Find. Your LFS guy Must Hear The "Jingle, Jingle" Of His Cash Register Every time He Sees You Walking In. I Can't Say That He Has Provided You With Any Advice That May Preclude Him From Making A Sale If He Has Sold You all/Most Of Those Fish.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

I agree your LFS is just trying to make money off you, looks like your mix is from all over the world, loaches and barbs are from Asia, firemouths, dempsey, Salvini are Central American and never recommended with african cichlids, this mix will cause problems in the future for sure. Kind of sad really, Frontosas have no business in this tank, the Electric JD are extremely hard to breed I don't even want to know how much you paid for it, and they are extremely sensative because of their poor genetics, not good in an overcrowded tank like this. I could keep going but what for, you need to have a serious talk with your LFS and have them take some fish back, then never go there again.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Just a question - how are you keeping nitrates at reasonable levels (10-20ppm) with over 50 fish in this tank? I've got my 6' long 125 gallon tank heavily stocked (IMO) with 26 fish, and I have to do around 40% water changes almost weekly to keep them below 20ppm. Do you monitor your water quality carefully?


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## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

Hello everyone,
after a year of going at this now and got some knowledge under my belt and caught up on reading everyone's post. Sorry for going off the grid for awhile, but I felt it was best to get some more knowledge and do some trial and error on our own.

To give you all updates. Well, to most hobbyist and to a little shock factor, since we didnt know what fish would go with what, we have learned that its all not black and white and actually you can mix and match fish. As we all know some fish have different personalities and , well "just work". How I dont know, but ours do.

Our water quality is okay, for we have peacocks and haps breeding all the time. Well not so much as now, since I have put the females in their own tank as I discover them. but I think I am shock most of you when I list what fish we are keeping in our 125 and they are all doing very well together. MY LFS didnt sell me everything I will list, some we just went a got and said what the heck, give it a go. LOL. Our LFS, did advise us on who to start out with and then could try adding different lakes, breeds in as the others got older.

So here goes most of our list: and again they have been going strong for over a year now and most fish are 5-6 inches. We do take any trouble makers out of the tank. The ones who chase anyone non stop. but that has been only twice so far.
And forgive me in advance on the names, I am by no means to the science on them..

5 Frontosa's smaller than peacocks (yes as they get to big we do resale them )
4 Calvis
3 dickfeldies
5 clown loaches
2 firemouth eels (big and awesome) all lids closed and sealed  
lemon jake
eureka jake
ngara
sunshine
electric blue
yellow blaze
german red
tang tiger
auzerus hap
nwendue hap
red empress
red shoulder
red orchid
2 blue dolphins
jonstoni 
bi color 500
3 eletric yellow
1 white lab
3 monos
2 columbia silver tip sharks (not big yet, only 3 inches) 
vic flameback
vic ruby green
vic christams fulu
vic red fin shellies 
two bristlenose 
1 rhino pleco
2 leaf fish (tiny) we have raised up two set of pairs and resell them once bigger 
blue ahli 
We just sold our two scats that got huge, not a problem just to big for what we want to keep in our tank.

we do have two large filters running and two sponges, we do a weekly water change and so far our fish and doing well. :fish:

Anyone who sees our tank is very impressed. :drooling: I dont know why ours is working. But so far we have not lost any fish do to attacks or killing each other.

WE have learned to put our tropheous in their own tanks with a big colony. We are learning to breed them. now just got to figure out some of the females so I can breed them correctly.. lol


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## Kleovoulos (Jan 6, 2011)

Like shampoo. All in one :-?


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## anthraxx4200 (Aug 16, 2012)

i wish you luck with your tank, but honestly it sounds to me and im sure a few others that you clearly have no clue whats truly going on. Or even understand why everyone is giving you caution, No its not all black and white. there are and can be exceptions to any rule, that however does not make it a good idea to lets say buy a great dane and lock it away in a 4'x4' cage for the rest of its life. sure it will live for awhile, but really is it worth keeping at all if its not under the right conditions? all these reccomendations are spot on yet you simply choose to ignore them. GL to ya but its gonna be **** on your fish. i truly hope they survive.

on a side note: you remind me of a guy in my area who will pick up anything fish related (as long as its free) and then attempt to resell/rehome later.


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## Burner460 (Jul 24, 2014)

Some of the replies are harsh, but in all honesty, it's correct. A true measure of success is if you have fish spawning, and are full grown after about a year and a half, 2 yrs. some of your stock will take that long to reach maturity. Until then, your set-up will be always changing, and always in transition. Though that may be fun for you and your husband, and (i'm sure) extremely profitable for your LFS guy, it's probably the equivalent of a live of **** for your fish. If nothing else, at least consider the water parameters. It's the different between surviving, and thriving. It's like you living your entire life in and around chernobyl and surviving till age 35, versus living somewhere where the air is clean, and there is little environmental pollution to keep you living a happy and healthy life till age 90-100.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm glad you're happy with the way your tank has been working out. You're not likely to receive many kudos from members of this forum, though - most are experienced cichlid hobbiests and keepers rather than fish collectors, so their goal isn't to see how many different types of fish can be kept in a tank, but rather how to provide the most natural and beneficial habitats for the cichlids they are interested in. I think that to most, it would seem a stable, stress free environment would be better for the fish in the long run, rather than getting a species that you know will eventually outgrow your tank and have to be rehomed - but that's one difference between the collector's and keeper's mentalities, I suppose.


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## sunshinetlb (Aug 15, 2013)

thanks everyone for your replies, I dont anything to harsh. it is what it is and each have there own comments/ideas. and that is okay. If my fish werent healthy and breeding or sick and dying. I would not suffer them to live in my tank. We take very good care of our fish and animals and are continually watching for signs of aggression or sickness. We spend good money on high quality food and feed them from Ken's fish ... Our fish are breeding and we have much success with our baby fry, they are reached over 2 inches and are very colorful and healthy. We have sold them to others and they always tell us of how amazing they are doing.

I get that caution is always key. For those that think we dont know anything. Well your wrong. We do a little maybe not an EXPERT by any means. But I think some may more know more than you and some may know less.... All I am saying it our tanks works and well thats a good thing for us. When I dont know something I ask it here or elsewhere for advice. And well its up to me to take the advice and try it, and if it works then cool.. that is basically what we all are here for, is to bounce feedback off each other, tell of our experiences, help in times of need.. right?! So, as I continue in the hobby I am learning.... nothing wrong with trying my own thing and take some of others experiences and figure it out. I havent lost any fish to sickness, (lets hope never)... they are all growing great, eating great and from what I can see will live a good long time. Just like any tank, if our fish out grow it, we will rehome them to someone who has a bigger tank. WE will by no means allow any of our fish to suffer for our own enjoyment.

We appreicate all the feedback, negative , positive, in between.. I am glad this forum exsists.... I have learned a lot.... and applied a lot.. some I did on my own... but its all good!!! :thumb:

Thanks again for the feedback... :dancing:


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