# Project 75G Begins



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)

It's been awhile since my tank has been filled with fish let alone water. About a year ago the pair of Oscars that I had for many many years were given to a family member due to my move across the state which I didn't want to stress. I'm now in the process of regaining this hobby and have decided to go with some African Cichlids; types currently unknown. I am leaning towards some Mbunas and or a compatible Peacocks so have been searching for information and pictures of species in the profiles and elsewhere. Just wanted to start this thread to gather more hands on info from you all and I will ask for tips and to be pointed in the right direction.

I'd like to have medium sized fish preferably nothing over 6" but nothing smaller then 3"-4" adult grown. I really like the colorful blues yellows and greens so my focus is in these. I'm thinking about 8-12 fish; maybe 2-4 fish of 3-4 chosen species that will do well together and have a 4-6" adult size.

So far I am on track to order or buy the fish locally in about 10 days. The tank as of yesterday has been filled with (3) 20lb bags of Caribsea Sahara Sand and filled with our underground stream fed well water from the Adirondacks in NY. The water up here is pristine; readings from the tap were 6.5pH 75ppm GH 120ppm KH and 0ppm for Nitrates. As I am waiting for an order of chemicals and food to come in I have yet to check it from the tank but it will be adjusted to the Africans liking.

On it's way here or already here I have: Seachem Prime 500ml, Seachem Cichlid Trace Elements 500ml, New Life Spectrum Cichlid pellets 600g, Zoo Med Spirulina-20 flakes 4oz, Aquaclear 110 filter, Aquaclear 70 filter, Purigen, Polyfil, Extra Bio-max bags, Hagen 300w Heater, Underwater Galleries Large Rock cave 10 pack, and a Deep Blue Mangrove tree root 16"x8". Also have baking soda and epsom salt in the house if there needed for the pH/Hardness adjustments.

So that's all just a start to my setup progress and advice from anyone is welcomed.


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Welcome back to the hobby. What are the dimensions of this aquarium?


----------



## B.Roberson (Nov 6, 2011)

So far I am on track to order or buy the fish locally in about 10 days. The tank as of yesterday has been filled with (3) 20lb bags of Caribsea Sahara Sand and filled with our underground stream fed well water so my question is how are you cycling the tank.


----------



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)

This tank is about 49 x 19 x 21 inches. I began ammonia drops to cycle but in the chemicals order coming is the Dr Tims aquatic bacteria. Am looking into what I can get from newyorkaquatics seeing they are only about 3-4 hours south of here.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Malawi are harem breeders so you want to allow 1m:4f of each species you choose, with more females if you choose aggressive species.

If you want green (closest thing) and peacocks, consider this type of mix:
1m:4f Otopharynx tetrastigma
1m:4f Aulonocara Ruby Red
1m:4f Labidochromis caeruleus
1m:4f Pseudotropheus Acei

Know that haps and peacocks have silver/brown females so you will only have the one colorful male in those groups.


----------



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)

Dj you think 20 fish would be alright in this tank? That's many more than I had intended but I'll look up each species you listed and see what I think about them. I'm building a picture collection folder on my desktop with ones that visually interest me.. I'll add my favorites so far before taking a look at what you've suggested.

Pseudotropheus Maingano or Demasoni
Ruby green hap
Ngara flametail
Ruby red

The yellows I'm not taking an eye to really but the Yellow benga peacock is the yellow I've eyed as of now.


----------



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)

Wasn't able to edit my last post to add this but the Aulonocara Blue Neon is another real nice yellow in my folder.


----------



## cellis245 (Dec 24, 2012)

smr5 said:


> Dj you think 20 fish would be alright in this tank? That's many more than I had intended but I'll look up each species you listed and see what I think about them. I'm building a picture collection folder on my desktop with ones that visually interest me.. I'll add my favorites so far before taking a look at what you've suggested.
> 
> Pseudotropheus Maingano or Demasoni
> Ruby green hap
> ...


I am by no means an expert (yet) but I have a 72 gallon bowfront that has been up and running for about a year with 20 mbuna in it. Make sure you have plenty of filtration (I'm running a fluval 406 & 306 and they keep it crystal clear) and I think you would be ok with 20. Others may disagree, and it's my first cichlid tank so I'm no expert, but just based on my first year it has worked out fine.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

20 is good for a 75G (rectangle). I'd stick to 15 with a 72G bowfront because footprint is different.

You probably don't want maingano or demasoni with peacocks or ruby green hap.

Overall peacocks are less aggressive than mbuna. The most aggressive of the peacocks (hybrids like dragon's blood for example) might be a good mix with the least aggressive mbuna (yellow labs). So the overlap on the aggression scale is small.

Haps are similar to peacocks in this regard, and Ruby Green is a Victorian...they happen to be on the timid side, to the point that they are better in a species tank with females if you want them to color up.

Demasoni and maingano are at the most aggressive end of mbuna...surpassed by the other melanochromis like auratus.

So if you want the bright blue of demasoni and maingano...I'd go with all mbuna.

If you want the haps and peacocks, I'd only consider very limited mbuna.

If you are going with mixed genders...peacocks crossbreed so you only want one species/tank.


----------



## cellis245 (Dec 24, 2012)

I've seen that comment made a couple of times. The dimensions of a 72G bowfront (48 x 18 x 22) are not that different than a 75G rectangle (48 x 19 x 22). Yes, they are more narrow toward the ends (13 inches all the way out at smallest point) but as you move in toward center they expand quickly. Why does everything seem to think there not good for mbuna or at least not capable of housing similar numbers?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

For the bowfronts, you measure on the sides and ignore the bowed out front. That 6 inch crescent in the middle does not add enough territory for an extra species.

They are fine for mbuna, but you would stock them like a 55G rectangle.


----------



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)

Okay I've put more time into searching species and have gathered another list for breakdown. Thinking of going with 15 for right now, 5 each of 3 species; but being they are unsexed as juveniles maybe 6 each to better the odds at 3-4 females?

Demasoni (pombo rocks) is top pick and the LFS has a tank of 1.5" juvi's so they will be our first choice. The other 2 species are not picked yet but I have a few to ask about. The cyno afra jalo reef is in a tie with a metriaclima msobo heteropictus or the variant flavifemina for pick #2 and then for the last specie I'm looking for a yellow bodied but one with black or blue stripes. What I have for this is the metriaclima zebra gold kawanga or the pseudo. flavus.

I'd want to avoid a large chance of hybrids, as with p. demasoni and p. flavus, would that be likely with the females being as different as they are? This would also come about if we went with the two metria's the msobo and the zebra kawanga.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Demasoni is the extra work fish...make sure you are up for them. You need to keep a big group to manage aggression...you want to end up with 15 in a 75G after removing extra males. You want extra cycled tanks for hospital and rehoming. You should be OK with removing all the rocks in your tank periodically to catch victim fish before they sicken your tank.

Jalo Reef IMO is also a blue barred fish and not a good choice for a mix with demasoni. You don't want either the males or females of your species to look alike...the more different the better.

Msobo should work, but then you don't want any other Metriaclima. Flavus is a possibility. Pseudotropheus genus is OK to mix since this is a holding place for fish that have not been identified as to genus so no significant cross breeding issues.

In order to have a 50% chance of getting 4 females, buy 8 unsexed juveniles. I've several times done that and STILL needed to buy another group later because I got too many males.


----------



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)

I've made another trip to the LFS and talked with the owner and got him to contact his breeders trying to get some of these fish he didn't have stock. I gave him a list of 7 species to find. The pseudo flavus, pseudo maingano, metriaclima 'membe deep', metria. msobo 'deep magunga', metria. msobo, metria. msobo heteropictus, and the metria. zebra kawanga and his stock of the demasoni already there.

He called me back today and all he can get in is the demasoni and the maingano. I'm not sure if I want to go with them as I am trying for a dark blue a light blue and a yellow but short of ordering online would this pair work? For a local yellow it looks like all that is around is the electric yellow labs. Seems they are stocked with just about everything even though they are listed as peacefull so how would this group be?

I'm waiting for some replies from several online breeders just have doubts that anything will be positive in my searches for such a short notice and narrow time window.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Demasoni, maingano and yellow labs should work.


----------



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)

So some f1 stock was found of Met. sp Membe Deep and I am thinking about switching the yellow labs for these guys. Decided I will grab 9 of each species for the first order and run from there after they are sexed. Tank is almost set up, am only waiting on some Anubias from Amazon to add some green. Ammonia is being converted daily though, now waiting for nitrites. Will take a set up pic soon and see what you guys think.


----------



## k7gixxerguy (Jan 12, 2012)

Cant stress enough the importance of getting a lot of demasoni to start with then rehoming subdominant males. They will teach you very quickly and costly otherwise. I tried starting with ten to begin with in my 67 gallon (same footprint as 75) and even at less than an inch and a half with a good bit of rock they took out two subdominant males before I knew it was happening. I ended up returning them and getting a couple other fish. Since then in the same tank, I bought a colony of what was thought to be about 20-25 of them but ended up being thirty and have since sold enough off to get my self to a reasonable 1male 9 female adult ratio. Even the girls can be nasty to each other. If you see fish lurking at the top or behind intakes/heaters, etc. Get another tank ready quickly because they can stress to the point of bloat and infect the whole tank or they can be killed rather quickly as well depending on how nasty the dominant male(s) is or are. Not trying to scare you away from a beautiful fish, just prepare you.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

True...as mentioned...the extra work fish. In a 75G you probably want to end up with at least 15 individuals. So if you want 12 females among your 15 you might want to buy 30 demasoni to have a 50% chance of getting them.


----------



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)

My ideal stock would be 15-20 total fish in the end, but these will not all be demasoni stock so I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding your buy 30 demasoni to get a 50% chance at 12-15 females. I will be trying to end with 1m/4-6f of 3 different species. Demasoni, Maingano, and Membe Deep or Msobo (prefering Membe's because they seem to average an inch or two smaller) but which ever one they have enough stock of when I order in a week or so..

Thanks for the tips K7, am up for them I believe. I have two other tanks to separate any problem makers or sick fish and will have/ do have my 75g filled with rock/caves a few plants and some fake driftwood.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you don't want to end up with 15 demasoni I'd skip them for this tank. They need a big group to manage aggression.


----------



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)

Alright so thinking if that is how it should be than I'll do what I can for them. They were the first fish to catch my eye. Having gone through the whole species list 10 times over they are still number 1 in my top 3 so. What's a good overstocked amount for a 75g?  I have 13 membe deeps! at 1.5" on the way and in two weeks I will be ready for the rest (Demasoni 20? / Maingano 13?). That will put me at 46 until I can sex and pull males. I'd guess this would put me anywhere in the mid 20's or 30's afterwards.

For filters I have the AQ 110 and 70 going now but will be putting that 70 in the 36 gallon eventually and buying some canister yet unknown to run with the 110. Likely an FX5/6...


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd want to end up with 15 demasoni (at least) and 8 maingano and 5 deeps. So 28.

Because the demasoni are small, this is fine.


----------



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)

Okay that's close enough to what I'm going to try for (15,8,8/31) I believe they are all small/dwarf mbuna; the largest likely the membe's but all 3 are listed at 4". Farm with these says his are just touching 4 to a hair over but they are wild caught as adults. Size was the biggest reason I grabbed these over msobo for those breeder said his cross 6. I'm kind of still partial to the msobo for looks but we'll see if that changes.


----------



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)

Had an arrival yesterday, 13 Membe Deep came in healthy to a new home. Most are near 2 inches with 2 closer to 1.5".. Also 2 starting to maybe show they are males. Showing a hue of blue on the body and the dark bars faint on their face.


----------



## smr5 (Apr 12, 2013)




----------

