# 360 Hap tank - will this work?



## jsc (Dec 3, 2005)

I have a 360 gallon. It is 96" x 36" x 24". I have a 100 gallon sump, and a closed loop. This is my first Malawi tank, so I'm looking for advice if this stock list will work. 
Exochochromis anagenys - 1m 2f
Champsochromis caeruleus - 1m
Copadichromis borleyii kadango - 1m 3f
Placidochromis sp. "phenochilus Tanzania" Lupingu - 1m
Chilotilapia euchilus - 1m
Maybe:
Fossochromis rostratus - 1m

Too many, room for more, bad combinations. Any suggestions / advice would be appreciated. 
Thanks,
Jeff


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Single males are a bad idea unless you go all male, and I would strongly suggest you go all male with that big boy tank. No girls at all - you would be amazed what happens when a girl gets accidentally introduced, I can speak from experience.

I have 10 males in my 6ft 125 and a lot of people here would say I am under-stocked.

Read about all male here.

If you want breeding groups you will really want 4 or more females for the male for most larger haps.

Please research and ask more questions.

Good Luck.


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## jsc (Dec 3, 2005)

Thanks. I've read that article, and others in library many times. Also seen cookie cutter setups, but nothing for large tanks. I've researched the profiles too. On this list with the exception of the champsochromis which is mildly aggressive, they are all peaceful. I can eliminate the champsochromis if that helps. Can also raise number of females in breeding groups.
I guess my question is: why is one male bad?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

All mouthbrooders can and will crossbreed. So any single male will help himself to whatever female is in the tank, regardless of species, resulting in unwanted hybrid fry. Haps have a rep for this, even with plenty of females of the same species. This is why you see more all-male hap tanks than mixed gender hap tanks. Not to say there is no combo that will work...just the risk with haps is higher than some other Malawi.

Malawi are harem breeders. If the ratio of m:f is not 1m:3f or even heavier on the female end, the males will harass the females too much...not enough females to spread around the damage and keep it manageable.


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## jsc (Dec 3, 2005)

Thanks. Now I get it. If I went with all male:
Exochochromis anagenys
Champsochromis caeruleus
Copadichromis borleyii kadango
Placidochromis sp. "phenochilus Tanzania" Lupingu
Chilotilapia euchilus
Fossochromis rostratus.

This isn't enough. Can I go with more than one male of a species? What other species would work? Like I said earlier these were all listed as peaceful except the champsochromis (mildly aggressive). Should I stay with peaceful or mildly aggressive species, or am I ok to go with some aggressive ones due to tank size.


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## mokujin22 (Jan 19, 2010)

If you smartly mix breeding groups of haps, you can certainly minimize the chance of hybridization, especially in an 8' tank. I have combinations of haps and peacocks mixed in a few of my smaller tanks. Obviously, don't put two Protomelas or two peacocks together. Just be smart about it and give them enough females and enough space so that no male becomes hyper-dominant.

Personally, I'd go with 4-5 breeding groups of big haps. All male tanks are cool, but I've gotten more into breeding behavior the last couple of years. It's a personal thing and there's certainly nothing wrong with all-male tanks... I still have a 125 all-male set up. But, I've also got breeding groups of Fossochromis, P. spilonotus Tanzania, Otter Point jacobfreibergi, N. broadzulu and Placidochrmis electra in my 180. No crossbreeding at all and certainly my favorite tank in the house.

This would work (Pick 4 groups or 5 without the Champsos or Fossos):

-Exochochromis anagenys 1M/3-4F 
-Champsochromis caeruleus 1M/3F 
-Copadichromis borleyii kadango 1M/3-4F -OR- Chilotilapia euchilus 1M/3F (somewhat conspecific in coloration and adult male borleyi get rough)
-Placidochromis sp. "phenochilus Tanzania" Lupingu 1M/3-4F or 2M/5-6F
-Protomelas 1M/3F (Taiwan Reef, spilonotis, fenestratus - something not blue and red)
-Fossochromis 1M/3F (But watch them as they get big as the male will rule the tank)

Check out the video of the 180 from my signature. It's an old video, but you'll get the point. It has the groups I listed above, plus one more small predator that I have since removed. I'll probably have to thin the number of Fossochromis at some point, but it's working for now.

If you were to do the group thing, start with 8 or so of each species at 2"-4" each (whatever you can find a good deal on) and grow them all up together. Sell off extra males as problems arise. This will be a whole lot cheaper than getting adults and you will have less aggression issues long term as they are growing up together.

Good luck.


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## mokujin22 (Jan 19, 2010)

Oh and also, Champsochromis aren't necessarily aggressive. They're just big (with big mouths). I've had adults before and they tend to steer clear of the drama in the tank. Sort of similar in temperament to a Dimidiochromis compressiceps.


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

Please don't let this thread die as the tank matures. I'm already :drooling: just thinking about it.


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## jsc (Dec 3, 2005)

I really didn't want to go all male. That will be a last resort. 
How about:
-Exochochromis anagenys 1M/4F (yellow)
-Champsochromis caeruleus 1M/3F (blue-ish)
-Placidochromis sp. "phenochilus Tanzania" Lupingu 2M/6F (blue)
and - ???
Need idea for 4th group. Color wise I have the blues and yellow. I'd like to get some red in there.


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## mokujin22 (Jan 19, 2010)

jsc said:


> I really didn't want to go all male. That will be a last resort.
> How about:
> -Exochochromis anagenys 1M/4F (yellow)
> -Champsochromis caeruleus 1M/3F (blue-ish)
> ...


Protomeleas taeniolatus - Red Empress is a common one with pretty striking red. I'm not so into them, but the line bred "Super Red" is a very colorful fish and stays around 7" or so (smaller than the natural variety).

If you want to go more uncommon, Lichnochromis acuticeps gets to be a beautiful blue face and red body. They get pretty decent size though.

Alternatively, one of my favorites: Placidochromis milomo (my male):


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## mokujin22 (Jan 19, 2010)

meh.. Having trouble getting the file name from Snapfish to post the pic directly. :?

Anyway, good looking fish, though the pic makes him look much darker than he was.


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## jsc (Dec 3, 2005)

I'm thinking of going with the 3 groups:
-Exochochromis anagenys 1M/4F (yellow) 
-Champsochromis caeruleus 1M/3F (blue-ish) 
-Placidochromis sp. "phenochilus Tanzania" Lupingu 2M/6F (blue) 
I think this will be a lot of fish when full grown.

I have a 120 gallon also, 48" x 24" x 24". I'd like to grow them out in this, before the 360. Im going to have both setup, so I have a tank to remove something if needed. Is there any advantage to growing them out for a couple months in the 120? or Should I put them right in the 360?
I'm going to try and get the smallest sexable size I can. Should I get them all at once, or add one species at a time?


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## jsc (Dec 3, 2005)

This is probably the longest time between updates in a thread ever! Life delayed this tank setup but now it's going! Here is the stock: 
1. Otopharynx heterodon
2. Buccochromis nototaenia 
3. Nimbochromis venustus 
4. Copadichromis borleyii
5. Otopharynx lithobates Chinyamwezi Island
6. Placidochromis milomo
7. Nimbochromis livingstonii 
8. Ob peacock
9. Dimidiochromis compressiceps
10. Champsochromis caeruleus 
11. Protomelas taeniolatus red empress
12. moori dolphin - female 
13. acei - female


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## jsc (Dec 3, 2005)

The link works now:


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## jsc (Dec 3, 2005)




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## jsc (Dec 3, 2005)




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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

360g  ! How are you stopping yourself from not adding 20+ fish?! I have a 135g and I got almost 30...granted not all are full grown and most are peacocks that wont grow over 6". Will probably have to thin it out in the future...or maybe not.

Awesome tank!


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## Eugooglizer (Oct 30, 2012)

I'd highly recommend removing the Moori Dolphin female, as soon as someone decides to breed with her it will turn ugly.

Also I agree with the previous post, if it were my tank I would probably add at least 15-20 more haps and peacocks. I have 18 in my 125


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## jsc (Dec 3, 2005)

binnyskyle said:


> I'd highly recommend removing the Moori Dolphin female, as soon as someone decides to breed with her it will turn ugly.
> Also I agree with the previous post, if it were my tank I would probably add at least 15-20 more haps and peacocks. I have 18 in my 125


I think the same. That fish has held her own through breeding attempts with every male, multiple times! She's even held a couple times. It has never started a war between the males though. She is very healthy and never stressed. As soon as it becomes a problem I plan to remove her, but so far no problem
I want to add more too! But I know the champso, bucco, and the 2 nimbo's get big so I'm torn. I think if I add anymore it will be peacocks and smaller haps.


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## jsc (Dec 3, 2005)

engotski said:


> 360g  ! How are you stopping yourself from not adding 20+ fish?! I have a 135g and I got almost 30...granted not all are full grown and most are peacocks that wont grow over 6". Will probably have to thin it out in the future...or maybe not.
> 
> Awesome tank!


Thanks! What's your stock list?


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## engotski (Dec 29, 2014)

hmm never made a list before but lets see...

Moori, blue ahli, OB, pheno tanzania, placidochromis electra, placidochromis jalo reef, german red, dragon blood, strawberry red, albino ruby red, aulonocara gertrudae, baenschi sunshine, hansbaenschi red shoulder, neon blue, maylandi sulfur head, bicolor 500, jacobfreibergi, red top lwanda, stuargranti flavescent, mylochromis ericotaenia, Protomelas fenestratus, super vc10.

Plus some doubles...just incase what I chose did not turn up to be males. Tank is peaceful right now but half the stock is 2-3" in size so I'm expecting another civil war in the next 6 months lol


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