# looking for advice on the styrofoam background i made...



## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

i put on my 3rd (and hopefully final) coat of cement last night and tried mixing in some cement colorants (red, buff, and charcoal). i still have intentions of going over the 'grout' lines between the rocks with a darker grey/black mix but i'm not sure i'm really feeling the colors. what do you guys think? should i roll with it and just fill in between the rocks? or just coat everything with a boring coat of grey?

first coat partially dry:









second coat immediately after applying:









third coat immediately after applying:









third coat around 12 hours after application (still a little damp):


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

I would grow some algae on it to make it look more natural. Should be nice!


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

do i need to do anything for algae growth? or it'll just happen after the tank has been up for a couple months?


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## Cromak (Dec 29, 2010)

Design looks cool but I'm not a fan of the colors.. You should have did something more natural and neutral. I would change out the reds or at least darken the bright one.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

well i filled in between the rocks with a dark charcoal 'grout'. i'm not sure if i like it or not, but i needed some way to fill in the gaps between the 3 pieces once i secure them into the tank. i'm half-tempted to start over with a fresh solid coat of grey, but that was a bit boring too, and i dont have the artistic skill to make the colors realistic. meh.

here's a more current pic:


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## tyhoward08 (Apr 23, 2006)

I actually like the color patterns of your background, but in an artsy way. If you're looking for a natural look I would agree with the other posters that the reds and yellows stick out a bit.

If you were happy with it, I'd say put it in the tank. Since it sounds like your not I would say go over the whole thing with a neutral gray color and give it another try. In your next attempt I'd recommend:

1. Use the red and yellow, but mix them with the grays before applying them to give more natural tones.
2. Each rock doesn't have to be one color. Use combinations of colors in different coats to make the different rocks blend together.
3. The depth of the rocks will give shadowing and separation no matter the color of the rocks around it so don't be afraid to use the same or similar colors on adjoining rocks.

Good Luck. The fun part about this DIY is if you don't like the result you can always go over it again


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

I'm going to roll with it. It's definitely different and its starting to grow on me. It's kinda funny as the red and tan colors are very close to the bright red walls and the tan/beige tile in our living room where the aquarium will be residing, maybe i was onto something all along


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

also, i tried test-fitting it into the aquarium last night and as i figured, it wont fit anymore. it was a pretty tight fit before i went through 2 10# tubs of cement. looks like i'll be trying to shave some off the sides this evening. i notice some of the pieces of styrofoam were starting to seperate from each other as well - grr! :x i personally think silicone sucks for gluing the styrofoam together. i'm debating on using more silicone vs gorilla glue for attaching it to the tank. i wish i had a way to further adhere the 2 big chunks of styrofoam to each other...

oh, and its super easy to scratch the sides of the aquarium even when gently moving these pieces around.


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## Cromak (Dec 29, 2010)

It actually looks much better with the grout filled in between.. Go with it, see how it looks.. Only thing I see it doing it possibly washing out the colors of some of your fish if you will have any cherry red zebras for example or even yellow labs.. They may blend into the red/yellows.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

Cromak said:


> It actually looks much better with the grout filled in between.. Go with it, see how it looks.. Only thing I see it doing it possibly washing out the colors of some of your fish if you will have any cherry red zebras for example or even yellow labs.. They may blend into the red/yellows.


i still need to learn all about the fish. i figure i'll have plenty of time to do my research while this thing cures/cycles/etc for the next 3-5 weeks... i haven't found any impressive pet stores locally... sadly, petsmart has nice the nicest fish so far and I saw (and again, I'm completely new to cichlids) electric yellows [i think] and some bright orange ones. personally, my favorites so far have been the bright yellow/orange/blue cichlids and then i'd like to get a few synodontis petricola catfish.


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## Cromak (Dec 29, 2010)

Im sure fl has some good privately owned lfs.. do a google search and see what shows up


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

I like the look of the background. It looks very "southwest", or "south-of-the-border".

Everything doesn't always have to be natural to look nice. I doubt the fish can tell the difference between a real, natural rock, and a sunken ship aquarium decoration, for example. Some day, I'll get around to posting some pictures of my day trip to the aquarium at the Atlantis Resort in the bahamas from last year. Everything thing is sunken city themed, nothing natural about it at all. And its amazing.


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## Dj823cichild (Mar 30, 2009)

Hey as long as you like it that's all that matters. It's your tank and you have to look at it so enjoy your creation I say! :thumb:


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I like it. I think it has a stained glass look to it.


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## M&amp;S (Feb 16, 2011)

I like it but do think it could distract from the fish (sorry). I think it'll look good in the tank for sure, but I like to choose a background that fets lost or emphasises the fish/planting.

But as said, if you like it, and it fits in with your decor, that's cool :thumb:

If you hang a black background behind your tank (anything cheap will do), maybe that roll of aquarium background you can buy, that should stop the gaps/joins been so visible.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

M&S said:


> I like it but do think it could distract from the fish (sorry). I think it'll look good in the tank for sure, but I like to choose a background that fets lost or emphasises the fish/planting.
> 
> But as said, if you like it, and it fits in with your decor, that's cool :thumb:
> 
> If you hang a black background behind your tank (anything cheap will do), maybe that roll of aquarium background you can buy, that should stop the gaps/joins been so visible.


thanks for the feedback. i actually planned to paint the back and sides of the tank with gloss black paint after the background is secured in place. also, its probably not obvious, but i intentionally cut out a 3" channel along the entire back of the aquarium for the syn petricolas to hide.


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## M&amp;S (Feb 16, 2011)

:thumb:


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

well, there's no turning back now!


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## Chunkanese (Feb 4, 2011)

Looks great, it's like a piece of art! However I had a colorful background with gravel once and my fish didn't stand out. If you want your fish to "pop" I would just simply switch to black grays and maybe tint of brown. To give it a really natural rock look I would recommend the dry brushing technique. Get your entire background to your standard basic color say a dark gray. Then add paint to your brush and using a paper towel take off most of that paint or colored cement. Then brush it on. Give it that scratchy look and build up the color where you want. However your background really looks cool, just depends how you want the finish product to look with your fish.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

more pics...

back of tank with background attached:









first coat of paint on back of tank:









there are definitely some things i'd do differently if i was to make another one of these...


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## Chunkanese (Feb 4, 2011)

looks great especially with the painted back. The background will look great with a little algea growth on it as well. keep us posted!


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

nice pics... keep us posted!


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

I put on a 2nd coat of paint last night. I'm hoping to put the tank in its final place and start filling it up with water this evening. I'll post pics when I do!


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

supadupamikey said:


> I put on a 2nd coat of paint last night. I'm hoping to put the tank in its final place and start filling it up with water this evening. I'll post pics when I do!


Still following along and looking to see it full up and running


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

Does anyone have suggestions on how to get it up and running properly? after multiple water changes and getting the PH levels normal, should i put some cheap goldfish or something in there to 'kickstart' the bacteria for a while before I spend $$$ on cichlids and syn petricolas?


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm going to recommend fishless cycling. Perfect in your case, you can be cycling while waiting for your pH to stabilize. Once cycled, you can add all your cichlids and catfish at once and enjoy.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

do i need to look into any of the 'products' to help the tank cycle? or just get the filters running and let it churn along for a few weeks?


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

you need the filters running for sure. The only other thing you need is an ammonia source. You can use bottled ammonia that is clear ammonia with no perfumes or soaps. Ace Hardware Janitorial strength is a proven safe brand. It might take 4-8 weeks to finish. mine took 5 or 6 weeks first time I did it.

Process is simple, add enough ammonia so a test kit reads 1-2ppm, and then wait for that ammonia to disappear signalling you have the first type of bacteria needed. Then, add that amount of ammonia to get to 1-2ppm every other day, and wait for nitrite to disappear. Once ammonia and nitrite are both 0ppm 24hours after adding the bottled ammonia, you're cycled. I imagine it will take about as long for your pH to stabilize, given what I have read about other's concrete backgrounds.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

more pics:

just after filling it up with water:









picture a few mins ago with the light on:


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

granted the water has only been in the tank for around 4 hours, but I just checked the PH and it was between 8.2 and 8.4. I was expecting more like 10+... ?


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

supadupamikey said:


> granted the water has only been in the tank for around 4 hours, but I just checked the PH and it was between 8.2 and 8.4. I was expecting more like 10+... ?


Looks nice all set up in the tank. pH may continue rising overnight or that may be it. whats your tap reading?


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

the low-range PH test shows my tap at 7.6 and the high-range shows my tap at 7.4


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

i just hooked up my hob filters to help circulate the water. should i not have the filter cartridges in there? i was skimming over the fishless cycling and one thing mentioned not using charcoal until the tank was cycled, but it said the filter media would help with bacteria growth and these penguin 350s have the filter/carbon combined. i also picked up some clear ammonia this evening, but i plan to do some more reading on the cycling before i start adding it...


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

so after hooking up the HOB filters last night, i took a PH test reading this morning and it was 8.8 - the highest value on the test kit I have. i'm planning to drain it completely this evening and refill it. i figure i'll get at least a couple complete water changes in before i start adding the ammonia for the fishless cycle.


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

supadupamikey said:


> i just hooked up my hob filters to help circulate the water. should i not have the filter cartridges in there? i was skimming over the fishless cycling and one thing mentioned not using charcoal until the tank was cycled, but it said the filter media would help with bacteria growth and these penguin 350s have the filter/carbon combined. i also picked up some clear ammonia this evening, but i plan to do some more reading on the cycling before i start adding it...


You'll want the filter media installed, thats where you want the bacteria to grow.

I would actually recommend not using charcoal/carbon at all. It's useful for removing medications from the water after treatment, but they lose their effectiveness after a short time and then you have to keep replacing them, which costs $$$. I like to use filter media that can be rinsed clean in tank water and then put back in. I use aquaclear filters, but I know others will have some ideas for what you can put in penguin filters for media that doesn't need to be replaced all the time.

Don't be intimidated by fishless cycling information you may read online. Its the same cycling as when there is fish in the tank, only you're providing the ammonia source instead of fish. Some info will tell you to use 5ppm, but that has become outdated information. 1-2ppm is all that is needed.


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

I would start with the ammonia ASAP. Get that cycle going!


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

so after reading up on HOB filter modifications, im kicking myself for stocking up on filters (at least I ONLY got 4 additional 6-packs) for my penguin 350s. also slightly regretting the penguin 350s over a couple aquaclear 70s. no going back now though.

still reading up on fishless cycling and while some people say the carbon is fine, the majority say its not needed whatsoever and to just remove it. i may cut open my cartridges and dump the carbon out; i'm still doing more research...

i also need to figure out when to add my PFS in relation to the water changes, cycling, etc.


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

You can put the PFS in right now. Your water may be cloudy at first, but it won't hurt anything and should go away in short time. It gives another surface for bacteria to grow.

You don't really need to worry about water changes until you have fish in the tank. I recommend a 50% (or more) water change once a week. If you do a fishless cycle, you may consider doing small water changes to keep nitrites and nitrates from running away, but its not a requirement.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

should i pickup Prime or anything similar?


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

ok, so i did a 100% water change this evening and then added the PFS after rinsing it thoroughly - though this sand really wasn't that dirty, i'm glad i paid a little extra $ for Leslie's PFS. here's a picture immediately after adding:










i had picked up [2] 50# bags but only added 1 bag and i'm actually thinking it's too much sand and i might take some of it back out. i also hit Ace Hardware on the way home and picked up some of their ammonia as the store-brand ammonia I picked up last night lists surfactant and I'm not willing to take the risk. I guess I should get to it and start adding some of it tonight...


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

so i added some ammonia a couple hours ago. i couldn't figure out the exact amount to add; some sites were saying as little as 5 drops per 10 gallons, other sites were saying 10 drops per 10 gallons and some people were saying they just dumped in like 1/4 cup... meh. so, i just grabbed an eye dropper that held 5ml or 1tsp when full and put in 5 squirts. i gave it a good hour or so to circulate and then tested the water and it came back DARK green, the highest value on my test kit was 8.0ppm and it was that dark or maybe even a little darker. oops. so i guess at this point i give it a few days before i even try checking again? should i do a partial water change to reduce the ammonia or just let it ride? thanks!


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

55 gallon? Maybe I missed the tank size somewhere.
Anyway, I use this calculator for dosing ammonia. I'd probably do a water change to bring it down.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

oops, that calculator says 10.41ml for the default 5ppm. i put in around 25ml. guess i'll do a big water change when i get home this evening.

so my mother in law has an outdoor koi pond. would it be beneficial at all to get some filter media from her?


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

supadupamikey said:


> oops, that calculator says 10.41ml for the default 5ppm. i put in around 25ml. guess i'll do a big water change when i get home this evening.
> 
> so my mother in law has an outdoor koi pond. would it be beneficial at all to get some filter media from her?


for a 55g (my first tank), it takes 4mL of the ace hardware stuff to give you 2ppm. If you added 25mL, you should be at about 12-13ppm. You need to do about a 80-90% water change to get down to a reasonable level. If the ammonia is too high, anecdotal evidence suggests bacteria growth is slowed. 2ppm max is all you need.

Some established filter media should speed things up for you, but don't change anything in the process. Add ammonia, test, wait till ammonia AND nitrite is 0. The established media just speeds things along, it doesn't change the process.

Earlier you asked about needing prime - does your water contain chlorines or chloramines? If so, you'll need something to remove them, and prime is an excellent choice. Its very concentrated and lasts a long time, so while the upfront cost is a little more per bottle, the cost per gallon treated is almost insignificant and can't really be beat. Did you add anything to the water right after filling and adding the sand? If you just have chlorine, in your water, its probably gassed off by now, but if you have chloramine, its probably still there. Chlorine and chloramine can kill bacteria or prevent it from growing at all.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

does the API master test kit have a test for chlorine/chloramines? so far i've only used the PH test and then the ammonia test last night; not even sure what else is in there. i have well water if that makes a difference. i'll do an 80-90% water change this evening and then check the ammonia again.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

and no i haven't done anything to my water at all. its straight from the kitchen faucet and here in FL, with a big an aerator sitting on the side of my house (part of the water softener setup), the 'cold' water comes out like 70 degrees.


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

If you have well water, you should be fine - no chlorine/chloramine. Its only added to city supply water. If you're planning on stocking african cichlids, you might want to consider bypassing the water softener for getting your tank water, or buffering your water. The soft water might explain why the concrete didn't raise the pH in your tank as high as you were expecting.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

i was reading at this link (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/ ... Page1.html) and it said to add a teeny tiny bit of fish food. however, that site also said to dose the ammonia at 5ppm and you guys are saying more recent knowledge suggests around 2ppm. should i get some fish food? if so, does anyone have suggestions? i dont know the scientific names, but i'd like to get some of the bright colored (yellow, orange, blues) malawi cichlids and a few syn petricolas so i'd like to get some food i'd eventually use with them.

also, i was reading about Prime and it says it removes ammonia, but i've read conflicting info on whether thats good or bad for fishless cycling. one place was saying that it converted the ammonia to another 'safe' form that could still be converted to nitrite, but another site was saying if i added Prime to let it circulate for like 24 hours and then add the Ammonia and start cycling... :?

i plan to do an 80-90% water change this evening; i'm just wondering if I should pick-up some Prime and fish food on the way home if it'd help the cycle...

i will also test the PH of my water right at the well and if its better than at the tap (softened), i'll have to rig up a way to combine a couple garden hoses to reach from the well out back to inside the house and into my Aqueon water changer to fill/drain the tank.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

oh duh, the main reason for Prime is to get rid of chlorine so I dont even need it. :roll:


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

i drained the tank as low as i could - the vac was causing a little tornado on the sand bed - and then refilled it with tap water. i was thinking about trying to fill it from the well, but then i read about how you shouldn't fill your aquarium with old garden hoses and mine have been hanging on the side of the house for the past 7 years and God knows whats growing/living in them. i let the filters run for 10-15mins after filling it up and just checked the Ammonia and its between 1-2ppm with my API test kit.

so now i just let it ride a couple days and then start checking for nitrites?


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

ph is currently 8.4 (was 8.8 yesterday before the 80% w/c). ammonia is currently 2.0ppm.

at this point i just let it churn for a few days, and then start checking the ammonia daily for the drop?

btw, i plugged the heater in - the temp is set at 79 but not sure how accurate that'll be - and the water is up to 77.6 degrees since the w/c last night. anything else i should do?


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

Sounds like everything is just about right for now. You shouldn't have to do anything until the ammonia drops to 0. Don't be surprised if it takes a couple weeks. My 55g tank took exactly 14 days before the ammonia dropped to 0. Don't throw and fish food in - it is another method of fishless cycling, but it is not as controlled. The food will decay and break down into ammonia, which gives the bacteria something to feed on. Since you're adding bottled ammonia, no food necessary.

If you want, you can turn the temp up on the tank into the 80's while cycling. It is said that higher temps will help your bacteria grow a little quicker.

Garden hose shouldn't be a problem as long as you let the water run for a minute or 2 before filling the tank. The green hoses usually aren't potable, but its only the water that sits in the hose between uses that has whatevers in the hose leech out into it. When the waters running, there's little risk. I drank out of water hoses all the time when I was a kid and I'm still relatively normal . If you're worried, you can get potable water hoses from the hardware store. I bought one and an adapter so I can do my water changes by hooking the hose up to the sink.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

so theres a local craigslist ad where the guy has 2 120g cichlid tanks and he's selling all the fish and then the equipment. he seemed to be a rather big hurry to get rid of everything. would it be like the worst thing ever if i picked up some of his fish and put them into my tank the way it is now or over the next few days? this makes day 5 since i added the ammonia...


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

supadupamikey said:


> so theres a local craigslist ad where the guy has 2 120g cichlid tanks and he's selling all the fish and then the equipment. he seemed to be a rather big hurry to get rid of everything. would it be like the worst thing ever if i picked up some of his fish and put them into my tank the way it is now or over the next few days? this makes day 5 since i added the ammonia...


With ammonia in the tank already at 2ppm, if you added fish they would likely die within a day. Unless these are fish you absolutely have to have, I strongly recommend waiting for the cycle to finish before getting fish. Down there in florida, you should pretty much be able to find whatever you need at any time.

It is possible to cycle with fish, but the process can damage and kill fish, and is usually done with hardy, cheap throw aways and nothing you intend to permanantly keep. It involves a lot of testing and water changes every day to make sure ammonia and then nitrite stay under 0.5ppm if you don't want to harm the fish. You could also try adding some bottled bacteria like Dr. Tim's if you want to speed things up, or if you have a friend with a tank, see if you can borrow some of his filter media to get some bacteria in your tank.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

well we dont want that to happen! and oddly i haven't found many cichlids around here; all the LFS's I've visited have a tank or two of cichlids with only a couple varieties.

i did find a CL ad for a place called The Cichlid Shop that sounds pretty awesome, but its like 45-60 mins away. i figure i'll make the drive there once my tank is fully cycled and hopefully bring home a bunch of fish...

Here's the ad:
http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/chl/for/2269063935.html


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

current stats:

day 5 of fishless cycle
80.1 degrees
PH 8.4
Ammonia 1.0ppm (it's looked like it was between 1.0 and 2.0 the last few times, but today def looked closer to 1.0)
Nitrite 0 ppm (didn't expect it, but since the ammonia looked lower, i checked anyways)

generally speaking those tests are a PITA to differentiate...


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

Sounds like your tank is progressing very similar to mine. When I was cycling my 55g the first time I cycled a tank, I remember thinking that the ammonia was dropping and I was confused that it wasn't showing up as nitrite. I think I added ammonia back in to replace what was disappearing, but its not necessary unless all the ammonia disappears. My theory is that some of the ammonia slowly offgasses on its own.

For my tank, it was on day 13 or 14 when the ammonia disappeared and my nitrite spiked off the chart.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

when the ammonia drops to zero, i have to add it back in within a day or two to keep the bacteria from dying off, right?


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

supadupamikey said:


> when the ammonia drops to zero, i have to add it back in within a day or two to keep the bacteria from dying off, right?


Thats right. Once ammonia drops to 0, you need to add the amount that got you to 2ppm every other day in order to keep feeding them. They'll produce nitrite, and another form of bacteria will eventually grow to transform the nitrite into nitrate.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

is there a good resource to check out as far as how to stock the tank? it's soo confusing as some places say to only keep X number of fish based on size for the tank, but then another place says that you can control aggressive by over-crowding and yet another place says you can control aggression by keeping a certain ratio of male-to-female fish but then another place says they keep all males and dont have a problem. ack.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

Day 7 - things are definitely happening now!

80.8 degrees
PH 8.4 - 8.8
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrite 2.0 - 5.0ppm

so i check tomorrow and assuming ammonia is 0, i bump it back to 2.0, and then continue to check that and add every other day to keep it at 2.0ppm. approximately how long does it take until the nitrite drops and nitrates are produced?


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

Day 8

Topped off water level, tank water had been down a couple inches as I read the increased aeration encouraged bacteria growth, but I was tired of listening to the water splashing.

ammonia level after topping water level was between 0-0.25ppm (tested 0.25ppm last night before adding water). added 4ml of ammonia and re-tested 30 mins later to verify ammonia was back to 2.0ppm
ph between 8.4-8.8
nitrite 2.0-5.0
nitrate (tap water) 0
nitrate (tank) darker than 0, but not 5.0ppm

those nitrate tests are pretty finicky; i just added the 10 drops of each bottle, shook it a few seconds and got a result between 2.0-5.0ppm. i figured that seemed too quick to be registering nitrates, so i read the instructions about shaking after adding first bottle, then shaking the 2nd bottle 30 seconds, then adding and re-shaking for 60 seconds, blah blah and then got the result slightly darker than 0 but definitely not 5.0ppm. i also then tested the tap water to be sure i wasn't getting nitrates from there.


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

There is no reason to test for nitrAte until NitrIte drops to zero. The nitrIte actually shows up in the nitrAte test, so you'll never get an accurate NitrAte reading until NitrIte is zero.

Other than that, sounds like everything is progressing just fine for you.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

Day 11
81.2 degrees
ammonia : 0ppm
nitrite: 5ppm

added 4ml ammonia, re-tested 30 mins later to verify 2.0ppm

Day 13 (today)
81.0 degrees
ammonia: 0 ppm
nitrite: 5ppm

just added 4ml ammonia to bump back to 2.0ppm

So, at this point I just keep added ammonia every other day and checking the nitrite and eventually the nitrite will start dropping and eventually reach zero? wont there always be some nitrite as i keep topping off the ammonia?


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Yes, you will have a nitrite reading until your tank is cycled. Once it is cycles, you will not have nitrite reading, regardless of adding ammonia. In a fully cycled tank, you will be able to add 2.0 ppm of ammonia to the water and by the next morning, you will get a reading of 0 for both ammonia and nitrite.

It's only been 8 days since you had the first nitrite reading, so I would give it at least another 3-5 days before testing the nitrite again. Unlike ammonia, the nitrite will plummet so you'll never see a decrease in the reading. Waiting for the nitrite to drop is the longest part of the entire process. 
_
(BTW- you may also perform small water changes to keep your nitrite levels down, preferably under 5.0 ppm.)_


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

Oh snap! My nitrite reading is finally ZERO! I'm waiting on the Nitrate test now, but I want it below 40ppm, so I'll need to do the respectively-sized water changed to reduce it, right?

There's a specialty Cichlid shop about an hour north of here that does viewings by appt only; I'm going to contact them and hopefully be able to swing up there today to stock my tank. woot!


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

nitrates were 80ppm. i'm doing a 70% WC now and we're heading to the Cichlid shop in little bit. woot!


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

supadupamikey said:


> nitrates were 80ppm. i'm doing a 70% WC now and we're heading to the Cichlid shop in little bit. woot!


congrats that cycle seemed to fly by!

After the water change, I might have added one more dose of ammonia and checked the next day to make sure ammonia and nitrite were both zero, but you should be fine so long as you were cycled. a 70% water change with nitrates at 80ppm would leave you at 24ppm. I'd probably want 1 more 50% change today. If you bought juvie fish and feed lightly, nitrate isn't going to climb very quickly now for a while.

You should post some pics of your fish too! opcorn:


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

cell phone pic









i ended up with 15 fish to start. i wanted to get a lot more, but at $5-7 each and being a newbie at this, i was a little hesitant. this cichlid shop ended up being ran out of this guy's house and garage. he had to have 30 tanks and probably a couple thousand fish. he was saying that all their fish are community-raised and mbuna and peacocks can play long nice and all kinds of other stuff. i dont know if he was super smart or pulling my leg or what. his fish were beautiful though. i dont know the scientific names, but i got 2 yellow labs, 2 pink peacocks, 3 blue mbunas, 2 other matching peacocks, 3 other peacocks of some sort, and then 3 of these fish that he said were kind of 'throw-away' cichlids; something about they're like $1 each and they lay eggs every 8 days and will over-populated but they're super hardy. i think they were a darker grey with black vertical strips?

i should have made a copy of the price list he wrote down; he had all the fancy names and now i feel like a dolt.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

and i'm still confused as to how many fish are ideal... i've read about aggression control by over-crowding and all that jazz...


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

i'm pretty sure that cheap fish is a black convict...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

15 fish is plenty for a an overcrowded 55G, especially if that background takes up some of the space. One thing to keep in mind with Malawi is they are harem breeders, so you don't want pairs. The male will chase a single female relentlessly, making her sick or killing her. So you want four females to go with the male.

Also not all peacocks mix well with mbuna. Yellow labs and peacocks work well, but many other mbuna are too aggressive for the peacocks.

Since only male peacocks are colorful, if you have two pink (or two of any color), you have two males. They are not likely to be good tank mates as they will view each other as competitors and fight. Or one will lose color, making him not as attractive in your tank.

I'd get the list from the seller, definitely.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

DJRansome said:


> 15 fish is plenty for a an overcrowded 55G, especially if that background takes up some of the space. One thing to keep in mind with Malawi is they are harem breeders, so you don't want pairs. The male will chase a single female relentlessly, making her sick or killing her. So you want four females to go with the male.
> 
> Also not all peacocks mix well with mbuna. Yellow labs and peacocks work well, but many other mbuna are too aggressive for the peacocks.
> 
> ...


well as of right now, pretty much only the mbuna's have any colors; there's 2 yellow and 3 blue, as far as the peacocks, only a couple of them have a hint of iridescence (is that the word) and a couple of them have like a calico print, the others are just like a solid off-white color. i pretty much picked out what i wanted the adult fish to look like and he gave me the corresponding babies, or at least that's what he was supposed to do. fwiw, the mbunas are tiny, like 1" and the peacocks are much larger at 2"


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

here's what I got:

2 Sunburst 
2 yellow labs
3 Cobalt Blue Zebra
3 Sunburst OB
2 Lemon OB
3 black convicts

any comments on them?


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

The convicts don't really belong - there from a different part of the world. If a pair forms, they will lay hundreds of eggs a month. They defend them violently, often killing the other tank mates.

The mbuna (labs and cobalts) you should up the numbers. Typically, you would want 1m and 4 females. With labs, thats no so important, but just 2 may fight if M-M or M-F. With cobalts, probably more important to end up with 1M:4F.

Peacocks and mbuna usually don't mix well. Often times, the mbuna stress the peacocks and outcompete them for food. Even in a proper setup for peacocks, usually you would only choose 1 species and have 1 male to some number of females, or choose 1 male from a few different species and keep no females.

If I were in your position, I would start by getting rid of the convicts. Then you have a few options, but I don't think your current list is ideal long term. You could get rid of all the peacocks and just keep mbuna - max 3 species in groups of 1m:4f. You could get rid of the cobalts and get a couple more labs, and then keep some single male peacocks of different species - labs with all male peacocks sometimes works out. You could keep all the peacocks until they start showing color. Any that are female or males that look alike (such as 2 males of the same species) are likely to provoke fighting though so you will probably want to remove them at some point if you go this route.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

well that's a crapshoot. how do you think this breeder managed to have 30 different species all intermingled amongst each other in all different sizes? the fish I got are mainly 1-2" long, but he had a tank that i'd guess was like 130-150 gallons and must have had 40-50 mbuna/peacocks living together and they all had to be like 4-6" long...


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

sounds like a hybrid factory.


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## supadupamikey (Mar 1, 2011)

well since i already have all these fish, i guess i'll chalk it up to experience and see how it plays out. as of right now the black convicts do seem to be the biggest jerks in the tank, but there haven't been any issues yet. fwiw, the convicts and the mbunas are only around 1" in length and all of the peacocks are at least 2"; maybe that'll help with issues; who knows, i'll find out as time goes by. the mbunas are my favorite, whereas the wife prefers the peacocks; if i had to chose one type or the other, i dont know which way we'd go at the moment.

i just checked all my #s

PH 8.2
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrate 20ppm
80.8 degrees

Should I get into the habit of doing weekly water changes? Or should I only do them when the nitrate levels deem them necessary? Whats the nitrate level to aim for? My test kit says to keep them below 40ppm, and if I'm only at 20 now, should I just let it ride and not change any water?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Weekly is good. Shoot for between 10ppm (after water change) to 20ppm (before water change) and avoid algae issues while making your fish happy.


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