# I'm just about ready to give up this hobby



## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

I hope someone in this forum can help me fix the mess I have. I'm working with a 75 gallon fresh water tank with a 8 inch oscar,medium size dempsey, red devil, texas and convict.

This started a month ago when my fish got ich. during treatment, a bunch of Malaysian trumpet snails appeared. After getting rid of ich, I decided remove all the gravel and ornaments and equipment . I disposed the gravel. I soaked the ornaments and equipment in bleach, I thoroughly rinsed the ornaments and equipment until a test a test strip for chorine indicated 0. I filled the tank with fresh water and added treatments to remove toxins. I put the ornaments and equipment back. I did not add any substrate so I could make sure the snails were gone and won't return. After a week, the ich was still gone and snail didn't reappear. I added 2 twenty lbs of sand substrate, after thoroughly rinsing it. I also added the packets of water clarifier that came with the sand After a day I changed the filter media. Over the next 3 days, I added Fritz Aquatics 80209 FritzZyme 7 Nitrifying Bacteria for Fresh Water

After a week, the water never got as clear as it was in the past. I thought it was caused by the sand being too fine. I removed the fine sand and replaced it with thicker sand. I thoughly rinsed that sand too. I added Tetra water clarifier. I added Fritz Aquatics 80209 FritzZyme 7 Nitrifying Bacteria for Fresh Water afew more times.. after another week,and the water is still cloudy. Like a foggy day. My water tests have been in the safe zone. 

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO NOW. PLEASE HELP !!


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm sorry you are having so many problems with this tank.

Which exact sand product are you using now?

Tetra Water Clarifier is a product to cause small particles to clump together so that your filter can more easily remove them. Why did you decide to use it, was it because your water was cloudy?

What type/brand of water tests are you using? Strips or liquid reagents with test tubes? What are the exact test results or a pic if you are using test strips along with the bottle's results color scale.

Have you tested pH and KH and if so, what are the test results? The FritzZyme 7 has specific requirements for both pH and KH.

Are your fish already in this tank?

P.S. I forgot to add that the cloudiness you are seeing may be a bacterial bloom so it's not something I would worry about at this time if everything else checks out water parameter wise.


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## Oscar6 (Aug 4, 2017)

You don't mention what you have for filtration. Canister? HOB? One,some? On a side note, you must realize the tank is grossly overstocked and somewhat mismatched. An 8 in Oscar should be alone in 75g. And when it hits or approaches the foot long mark, 75 is inadequate. That's if the RD doesn't flip the kill switch and go on a rampage. Regardless of water clarity, you have or will have an untenable situation.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

That would be a tremendous +1 to @Oscar6 !
-
Okay then... shall we try this again?
Please respond to @Deeda and her questions. They are relevant to your problem, and may help to fix the cloudy water in your tank.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

Thank you very much for your sincere detailed response. Here are my responses.


Deeda said:


> Which exact sand product are you using now?


I read a few posts where some say they successfully used sand blasting media. I used black diamond sand from tractor supply. While unorthodox, I took the risk. It is only 11.99 per 50 lbs. I figured if I rinsed it enough and used a clarifier it may work. I suppose I am wrong.



Deeda said:


> Tetra Water Clarifier is a product to cause small particles to clump together so that your filter can more easily remove them. Why did you decide to use it, was it because your water was cloudy?


Yes


Deeda said:


> What type/brand of water tests are you using? Strips or liquid reagents with test tubes? What are the exact test results or a pic if you are using test strips along with the bottle's results color scale.


I am using the API liquid / test tube kit
pH is 7.6
Amonia is 0
nitrite 4 ppm
nitrate 20 ppm
[/QUOTE]


Deeda said:


> Have you tested pH and KH and if so, what are the test results? The FritzZyme 7 has specific requirements for both pH and KH.


pH is 7.6. The API liquid test doesn't include a KH test. I used API strips to test KH. It was dark brown greater or equal to the darkest brown on the color scale. The water in my city is hard. I don't use a softener. The hardness has not been a problem in the past when my water was very clear




Deeda said:


> Are your fish already in this tank?


Yes. They don't show any signs of distress.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

Oscar6 said:


> You don't mention what you have for filtration. Canister? HOB? One,some? On a side note, you must realize the tank is grossly overstocked and somewhat mismatched. An 8 in Oscar should be alone in 75g. And when it hits or approaches the foot long mark, 75 is inadequate. That's if the RD doesn't flip the kill switch and go on a rampage. Regardless of water clarity, you have or will have an untenable situation.


I have a one Top Fin® 75 gallon Silenstream™ Power Filter HOB.

Once the Oscar and/or RD are that large. The first to go on a rampage will be removed from the tank and promptly broiled with butter and eaten by me


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the update @jgrillout !

I've never used the BDBS but I've not heard of it causing cloudiness and quite a few people seem to use and like it.

Your nitrite reading is higher than I like for having fish in the tank. I usually recommend enough of a water change to cut that number in half. Some aquarists suggest using salt (sodium chloride) to treat nitrite poisoning rather than doing a water change. I've never experienced high nitrite level with fish in the tank so you may want to search online for treating high nitrite with fish using salt.

I did a quick API test strip search for the color chart and didn't see the color brown on the chart, I only see red, yellow and green though for high KH values the chart also shows yellow. 

At this point maybe it's just a bacterial bloom, I would just continue to monitor your water parameters daily and fish behavior for stress.


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## ken31cay (Oct 9, 2018)

jgrillout said:


> I have a one Top Fin® 75 gallon Silenstream™ Power Filter HOB.
> 
> Once the Oscar and/or RD are that large. The first to go on a rampage will be removed from the tank and promptly broiled with butter and eaten by me


Sounds good. But I recommend an olive oil, lemon, and herbs marinade before grilling


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## EricTheRed (Jun 16, 2012)

I recommend immediately doing daily water changes until your nitrites are lower per Deeda’s recommendation. I suspect your tank is not fully cycled yet and you are experiencing bacterial blooms. Be sure to use a vacuum like a Python to get all the sludge in the sand when you do your water changes. For this reason, I use aquarium gravel with messy eaters like Oscar’s where it’s easy to see the sludge and get it out of the tank during water changes. You also need to immediately add a second HOB filter onto your 75G tank. For example, I use two Marineland Emperor filters on my 90G plus a large air stone with auxiliary pump to ensure adequate filtration for the cichlids in this tank which is close in size and has the same footprint as your 75G. Whatever filters you buy, keep the established media in your HOB and only rinse it in removed water from your tank as this is where the beneficial bacteria in your tank resides.

I would recommend rehoming your Oscar immediately as he will quickly get too big for your 75G tank. If you must keep him rehome every other fish and keep him as a wet pet. In this scenario he will survive, but will eventually convince you he needs a bigger tank as he grows into adulthood. Also, down the road your Texas and RD will fight to the death in your relatively cramped 75G. I recommend rehoming one of them along with the Oscar. Your current large fish setup would need at least a 220G aquarium to have a reasonable chance of long term success. If you have the funds and space, go this route.

Good luck!


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

Deeda said:


> Thanks for the update @jgrillout !
> 
> I've never used the BDBS but I've not heard of it causing cloudiness and quite a few people seem to use and like it.
> 
> ...


Your response has reduced my stress. I will do as you suggest. I appreciate you knowledge and willingness to share with our community so promptly.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

Hi Deeda,
Since a member posted that my excessively high nitrite was very dangerous, I did 60% water change. I thought it wouldn't hurt to add some API salt for fresh water. I added 3/4 of a cup. Some say it can reduce stress and help heal. I thought the high nitrite level may have irritated their gills. that was yesterday morning. When I got home after work, I noticed there was a white dust of the glass sides. I'm not sure if this is a new condition or if I was that clueless and failed to notice sooner. In fact, it may have been what I perceived as cloudy water. So I used a sponge to wipe it off. Again today, the dusty look is back again. Do you know if that could be from the salt or is this a bacterial bloom. What can I do to fix this? By the way my water parameters are much better now. the nitrites are 0, the ammonia is 0, pH is 7.8, Nitrate around 40
Thanks,
John


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

John, I'm glad you did a water change to reduce the high nitrite level as it's better for the fish. It seems odd that your nitrate is around 40 ppm after that 60% water change though. I don't remember if you have ever posted your tap water reading for nitrate so if you haven't, please test and post the results.

Did you dissolve the salt in water before adding it to the aquarium? If not, that may account for the white dust on the glass.

A bacteria bloom can last for a couple weeks but usually clears up under that time length. I understand it can be ugly to look at but some patience dealing with it will pay off in the long run.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

Deeda said:


> John, I'm glad you did a water change to reduce the high nitrite level as it's better for the fish. It seems odd that your nitrate is around 40 ppm after that 60% water change though. I don't remember if you have ever posted your tap water reading for nitrate so if you haven't, please test and post the results.
> 
> Did you dissolve the salt in water before adding it to the aquarium? If not, that may account for the white dust on the glass.
> 
> A bacteria bloom can last for a couple weeks but usually clears up under that time length. I understand it can be ugly to look at but some patience dealing with it will pay off in the long run.


I appreciate your continued assistance & advice.

Here are my tap water parameters. I did dissolve the salt in tap water.

ph-low = 7.6, 
ph - high = 8.2
ammonia = 0
nitrite = 0
nitrate = 0

My understanding is that if the ph-low test is at the upper limit then ph-high test is needed. 

Last night I decided rushed through the cleaning I did Wednesday. Last night I made another attempt. I removed all the decorations & equipment and soaked those in water & bleach. 
With my python, I suctioned the waste off the top of the sand. This caused the water to decrease probably 33%.
After scrubbing & thoroughly rinsing the HOB. I put in back in the tank with new media (that is a cartridge with charcoal covered with cotton). treated the water with API Aqua Essentials. I feared this might have been a disaster causing new tank syndrome. I also added a new clean air stone. Fortunately, The fish were fine today. I now will only feed the fish once a day and for a while I'm turning off the light. from 12am to 5pm.

I suppose I'll leave everything as is for a week. Hopefully this will work.
You would be a good computer support person because you communicate well. You are empathetic and knowledgeable.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm not sure why you decided to remove all decorations and equipment and clean them in a water and bleach, can you please explain why you did that?

Replacing the HOB media with a new cartridge at this point is counter intuitive when you are effectively starting over with cycling a new set up with fish in the tank. Did you also add the FritzZyme 7 product according to the directions?

Cycling a tank with fish present is a gamble requiring daily testing and monitoring of the ammonia and nitrite levels and performing water changes as needed to keep those levels as close to zero as possible. 

The API Aqua Essentials is just a type of dechlorinator product that also says "This unique formula binds with ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate rendering them non-toxic and allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them." Since you have replaced the filter cartridge with a new one, you essentially do not have a mature or 'seasoned' bio-filter that is capable of using the bound ammonia, nitrite or nitrate that will be present in your aquarium.

Ideally you don't want to mess with your filter, decorations or substrate when you are in the position you are in with an uncycled aquarium. I know you are frustrated that your tank water was cloudy and you want to actually see your fish in clear water but there is a process to getting to that point.

I also appreciate the kind words though I am a bit frustrated with the steps you have taken to hurry along the cycling process. I have not seen a quick fix to getting a tank ready for fish of the size of fish that you have outside of using a mature filter or filter media from another tank.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

Deeda said:


> I'm not sure why you decided to remove all decorations and equipment and clean them in a water and bleach, can you please explain why you did that?
> 
> Replacing the HOB media with a new cartridge at this point is counter intuitive when you are effectively starting over with cycling a new set up with fish in the tank. Did you also add the FritzZyme 7 product according to the directions?
> 
> ...


The reason is OCD plus I thought the decorations and equipment were covered with the same bacteria or whatever it is on the glass. I realized there was some beneficial bacteria that would be lost. I used Seachem Pristine today. I just noticed Seachem Stability is even better. It is supposed to be formulated specifically to prevent new tank syndrome. I will use that tomorrow. So far I'm fortunate the fish are not distressed.

I was 13 when I started the aquarium hobby. There was no internet and forums like this. My pet store did not mention things like beneficial bacteria and tank cycling. I bought my first tank, filled it up, put two 7 inch Oscars in it. There was no problem. I had another tank with smaller south American cichlids. Every week I emptied the tank, sometimes scrubbed it with SOS pads. I never lost a fish. I guess it was just beginners luck. I know better now thanks to this forum. I don't take the risk as seriously as I should since I was able to have healthy fish in a non cycled tank when I was 13. 

One of the benefits of forums like this is others get to learn from these stupid mistakes like mine.


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## IlliqDoodle (4 mo ago)

Try your best! Don't give up if you like this hobby


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't think botted bacteria is an advance in the industry.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

thank you


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

So apparently your aquarium is now going to start a new cycle? Okay then... you need a second aquarium filter. Keep your current Hang-On-Back (HOB) power filter, as it will help to better distribute water current and oxygenation throughout the water of the aquarium. But, you need to add another one.
To inform...
Do NOT add a second HOB filter that uses this type of cartridge,








Replaceable filter cartridge for HOB filter
-
Get a HOB filter that uses this type of biological filter media,








Foam media block insert for HOB filter
-
The foam media types are easy to maintain as you simply squeeze them out occasionally in a partially filled bucket of tank water. Compared to filter cartridges, they are high performance. Plus, the surface area of a block of foam media will colonize MUCH more beneficial bacteria in it, than a cartridge type filter will. And, you don't periodically replace foam media blocks. Nope. Foam filtration media for an aquarium will last almost forever.
-
Either a Tidal 110 or Aquaclear 110 HOB filter, would be an excellent choice as a second power filter for your 75 gallon aquarium.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

Auballagh said:


> So apparently your aquarium is now going to start a new cycle? Okay then... you need a second aquarium filter. Keep your current Hang-On-Back (HOB) power filter, as it will help to better distribute water current and oxygenation throughout the water of the aquarium. But, you need to add another one.
> To inform...
> Do NOT add a second HOB filter that uses this type of cartridge,
> View attachment 143926
> ...


You hit the nail on the head. I bought a a Tidal 75 last night. They didn't have the 110 in stock. I also added a sponge filter. Wow, what a difference in less than 24 hours ! The water is crystal clear ! I think I'm heading in the right direction. I appreciate the time that you and the others whom replied to my post.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

It's just starting to get good. And it may help to think of the aquarium system itself in this case, as a complex life form. Give it time and let the bacteria grow out and build up properly in your new Tidal filter.
Then you'll really see how nice a fully established, well-maintained aquarium can be.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

It's baaack :-( Well most of the weekend I had a better looking tank. This morning, the glass is frosted again. Events yesterday. 
I checked Ammonia & Nitrite. Ammonia was 6.4,Nitrite was 1ppm. I have API's new product, Aqua Essentials. The bottle claims it detoxifies and lowers ammonia and nitrite. I dosed per instructions. Today ammonia is 0, Nitrite is .25 ppm. So that product did indeed lower ammonia and nitrite. but as I said, yesterday at 6pm no frost, this morning at 9am, it's all over the glass. 

Possible causes? 
1) I fed the fish [not over feed] 
2) maybe API's Aqua Essentials that has a red burst imagine boosting "New!". Is defective and needs to be recalled. 
3) You and Deeda mentioned it could be a bacterial bloom.

So at this point I decided I will not use any chemicals,. I will do weekly 33% partial water changes. I will not clean anything else Hopefully it will go away on its own as the beneficial bacteria increases.
Does this make sense? Anymore suggestions?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I agree you should stop using chemicals, but partial water changes (more than 33% if your fish are used to it) daily or 2X daily are the solution.

You want to test the water morning and night, and change water whenever ammonia or nitrite is at or over 1ppm.


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## TUCCI (5 mo ago)

I’m late to this thread and adding to it might be moot….. How have you been doing with what you have going on?
All the occupants you have in their are stout and can easily tolerate the tank cycling so, forget dosing with chemicals and don’t sweat the #s unless they start gasping for air. Just go easy on the feedings, minimize making any changes to their environment and do weekly 60% WCs. 50% of the occupants will need to go so, pick your favorites accordingly.


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## TUCCI (5 mo ago)

Continued:
Set you water temperature at 80.
Drop an air stone in a corner to add air for better oxygenation to assist with bacteria growth.
Forget the salt and let the occupants that remain settle and document everything for future reference so you won’t repeat previous issues.
The cycling #s will go up until it’s done so like I said before don’t sweat it unless they start gasping for air and none of the fish you’ve got are sensitive to it.
I have a heard of Clown Loaches that had to endure a cycle and they were just fine so trust me the species you’ve got in there will be fine just don’t freak and keep fussing with it making it worse.
Light, once a day feedings only and vacuum the fecal waste at water change times.
it can take up to 6-8 weeks, sooner with the bio-load you’ve got going on….
Again, Thin the heard as previously mentioned as there’s no choice if your going to be successful…..
Let us know every week or so how it’s going….if you like, message me with questions, I don’t mind.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

jgrillout said:


> You hit the nail on the head. I bought a a Tidal 75 last night. They didn't have the 110 in stock. I also added a sponge filter. Wow, what a difference in less than 24 hours ! The water is crystal clear ! I think I'm heading in the right direction. I appreciate the time that you and the others whom replied to my post.


UPDATE: The crystal-clear water didn't last long. My tank has been cycled for 4 weeks now. Currently: PH 7.6, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0,Nitrates 20.

However, the water isn’t as clear as it was shortly after installing the new tidal wave HOB filter and sponge filter. That fog is back. Over the course of past 3 weeks, I tried using Scheame Paragen, 2 different filter flosses, and carbon. But nothing has made a difference. I don’t understand this. Prior to the ich outbreak and Malaysian snails appearing, My tank water was close to perfectly clear. Now what ?


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

Auballagh said:


> It's just starting to get good. And it may help to think of the aquarium system itself in this case, as a complex life form. Give it time and let the bacteria grow out and build up properly in your new Tidal filter.
> Then you'll really see how nice a fully established, well-maintained aquarium can be.


Enough time has passed not solved :-(


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## Aussieman57 (Dec 18, 2021)

That tank is too small for: "8 inch oscar,medium size dempsey, red devil, texas and convict." A 75 gallon tank "no bueno" for what you have in there. If you want to have success in this hobby, unfortunately you can't just do what you want. You have to take into consideration what is best for the fish and work around that. Too many new fish keepers want to just dump what they think looks good in the tank without considering fish compatibility, fish adult size, bioload, aggression, etc. etc. One, you have some pretty aggressive fish in there that are gonna get big. They've got nowhere to retreat to in that little box of water when tempers start flaring. A recipe for stress, disease, murder and mayhem. Throwing bottled "BS in a bottle" products in trying to bandaid the obvious problem is just creating a sucking noise in your wallet. Reading through this post "Oscar 6" is the only one who told it to you as it is. This tank is a mess. You have got to get a realistic mix of fish in there for these fish to survive. When I see someone post "The first to go on a rampage will be removed from the tank and promptly broiled with butter and eaten by me" it makes me wonder if this hobby is a right mix for you.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

Aussieman57 said:


> A recipe for stress, disease, murder and mayhem.


Similar to New York 😊


Aussieman57 said:


> When I see someone post.....


I was just teasing. Inspired by Auballagh's signature
_Find What You Love And Let It kill You!_
[/QUOTE]


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

UPDATE:
I can't afford nor do I have the space for a larger aquarium, and I didn't want to rehome my stock and buy a different variety. So I ...
I did an 80% water change and while the water level was low, I used that opportunity to wipe down the glass. I refilled the tank and of course its back to crystal clear. A few days later, I purchased a pen plax cascade 1000 canister filter.
I realize this isn't a permanentsolution but I didn't have an alternative other than selling everything and quit this hobby.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

You can't collect Cichlids, like they are trading cards or postage stamps!
Placing their needs above your own desire to 'own' them, is the most important part of responsible pet ownership.
And don't feel bad about this. No. This is an entirely human thing, to want to possess something you shouldn't have, and then get it anyway. The REALLY BAD examples of this problem include, highly venomous snakes. Or, giant-sized Constrictors. Birds that are almost (or have) gone extinct in the wild. Powerful dogs, that terrorize those around them, or even turn on their own owners.
And while your own example of this problem in the 75 gallon tank is MUCH less than those I provided above - it is still the same thing. And ultimately, this situation in that small tank is not going to end well.
So, if you can't get another, much larger tank to keep these Cichlids you have now, with two aquariums? What would responsible Cichlid ownership look like for that single, 75 gallon tank of yours? Well to begin, It WOULD involve returning some of the Cichlids you have in it now.

Oscar
Red Devil
Texas Cichlid
-
Keep the Jack Dempsey and Convict, and add back to the tank a Fire Mouth plus a female Salvini. Doing THAT would still be an interesting 75 gallon tank, that is stocked responsibly, and set up for keeping successfully, long-term.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

TUCCI said:


> Continued:
> Set you water temperature at 80.
> Drop an air stone in a corner to add air for better oxygenation to assist with bacteria growth.
> Forget the salt and let the occupants that remain settle and document everything for future reference so you won’t repeat previous issues.
> ...


Thanks for the good advice. I appreciate the instructions and encouragement.


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## Rockfella (Aug 4, 2021)

@jgrillout Don't give up!

Check out cross sectional view of my 2 70g/100g tanks.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

Rockfella said:


> @jgrillout Don't give up!
> 
> Check out cross sectional view of my 2 70g/100g tanks.
> 
> ...


Wow ! That is beautiful. How often do you do water changes and replace media? What type of filter & media do you have? What else do you recommend to achieve this perfection?
Thanks for the encouragement


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Replace media every 10 or 20 years...only when it disintegrates.


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## Rockfella (Aug 4, 2021)

jgrillout said:


> Wow ! That is beautiful. How often do you do water changes and replace media? What type of filter & media do you have? What else do you recommend to achieve this perfection?
> Thanks for the encouragement











New black background 😎







youtube.com





Short video. I think your tank has bacteria bloom not dirt/sand dust.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

DJRansome said:


> Replace media every 10 or 20 years...only when it disintegrates.


Gotcha, how often to rinse media in bucket of aquarium water? Also is a partial water change necessary if the water test #s are in the safe range?


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## Aussieman57 (Dec 18, 2021)

jgrillout said:


> Gotcha, how often to rinse media in bucket of aquarium water? Also is a partial water change necessary if the water test #s are in the safe range?


Yes, regularly scheduled partial water changes are necessary. There are other things in the water like fish hormones etc. that you cannot test for. Also, evaporation can increase mineral content of the water. Partial water changes help keep everything in balance.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

For HOB I rinse vigorously with every water change. For canister about every 3 months. Whenever you clean your filter.


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## Rockfella (Aug 4, 2021)

For whatever reason if I feel lazy and skip water changes I reduce feeding amount/frequency.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

looking better. a few days after partial water change and the installing a canister filter the next day. Also cut feeding by 50%.


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## jgrillout (Jan 9, 2018)

Almost a month latter and my tank is doing well. The cannister filer, more frequent water changes and a glass canopy has helped. A few improvements have made the maintenance easier.
1) a DIY vacuum made with a pvc pipe, an air stone and a fine mesh bag. I can hook ip up in 30 seconds and vac trouble spots more often since it is so easy.
2) a DIY is adapter i made to hook a garden hose to the canister filter output. drains water faster without wasting tap water
Both of these DYI's are much better & less expensive than a python.


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