# Afra Jalo Reef - Please help



## Brucers1 (Jan 8, 2013)

Hi everyone, I'm starting a species only tank with afra jalo reef I would like some advice.

I have a 3 ft tank approximately 130litres with an External 1400 filter.

Dimensions 36inch wide, 18inch high, 12 inch depth.

Male to female ratio, also how many to keep in total.

Diet - Are NLS pellets (1mm) & low contant Spiriluna flakes ok?

The Juvies will be F1 from a local breeder.

Thanks everyone


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

IMO, in that size tank, a single male to 4-5 females would be all I'd do. And only because Afra are more of a dwarf mbuna. Be sure to have plenty of rocks for the females to hide in. Start off with 8-10(if they're small) and pare down to the desired ratio once you can sex them. A 36" x 12" tank doesn't provide a lot of room anything else other than maybe a small group of Synodontis Petricola/Lucipinnis.


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## Brucers1 (Jan 8, 2013)

Could I get 3 males and 9 females in there, as I will build many caves and give a lot of hiding places, also I will do 50% water change every week.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

I wouldn't do that many. With the extra males, there won't be enough room for escape.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Jalo's are larger also. My male is easily over 4". I echo DrgRcr's advice.
.


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## Brucers1 (Jan 8, 2013)

What about Elongatus Mpanga? Can I get 3 males and 9 Females of them in the tank?


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

Again, the tank is too small. 3 males of any species are going to spar no matter what. It's the room they have to escape that determines if they survive(bigger tank), or fight until they get beat up and stressed to the point of disease and/or death(innapropriate tank size).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The only fish that I would do 3m:9f in a 36" tank would be Saulosi or I might try Cynotilapia afra Cobue.

The Cobue tend to be timid...but male #2 and #3 may also not color up and defeat your purpose.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

3 Cobue males will spar in a tank that size IMO. I have a large group of Cobue with 3 males in a 125 and they still find each other to go at it a bit. I just think the 12 depth limits you even more. Maybe if it was like a 40 breeder(36x18), I could see being more generous with the numbers.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

DrgRcr said:


> 3 Cobue males will spar in a tank that size IMO. I have a large group of Cobue with 3 males in a 125 and they still find each other to go at it a bit. I just think the 12 depth limits you even more. Maybe if it was like a 40 breeder(36x18), I could see being more generous with the numbers.


Yup...

So will Saulosi IMO..

It is very easy to overstate how laid back a given species will be when confined into a 36 X 12 footprint.


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## rekermbuna (Feb 19, 2013)

Brucers1 said:


> Could I get 3 males and 9 females in there, as I will build many caves and give a lot of hiding places, also I will do 50% water change every week.


Are you getting juveniles? Adding them all at once?

If so, you should be fine with that ratio, as long as you establish 3 distinct territories for the males.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

rekermbuna said:


> Brucers1 said:
> 
> 
> > Could I get 3 males and 9 females in there, as I will build many caves and give a lot of hiding places, also I will do 50% water change every week.
> ...


You cannot know if this will work or not. If erring on the side of caution, I would say it won't.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

In any tank, territories will be defined by the fish, not by how you place decor. If more than one wants the same spot, that's when trouble will start. With such a short narrow footprint, you're asking for trouble.


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## rekermbuna (Feb 19, 2013)

DrgRcr said:


> In any tank, territories will be defined by the fish, not by how you place decor. If more than one wants the same spot, that's when trouble will start. With such a short narrow footprint, you're asking for trouble.


I've kept cichlids for years in that very size tank. It WILL hold 3 males, if territories are divided properly AND the female to male ratio is good. It will hold the 3 males due to the length of the tank. Your biggest obstacle is making sure you don't have alot of subdominant males in the tank that you aren't aware of.

Mbuna are always going to squabble over territories. If you supply enough rockwork to give them the individual territories that they need, they will work it out.

I am assuming this IS a single species tank, right?

Oh, and don't let the number of posts for my username fool you...I moderated on here for years. NOT a beginner and you'd be hard pressed to find a species of mbuna I haven't kept or a tank size I haven't used.


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## rekermbuna (Feb 19, 2013)

Oh, and Brucers1, with this size tank you are on the right track. You are going to need a smaller species like afra, or even demasoni. Had you asked if you could pull this off with Auratus or most larger mbuna, I would have suggested to go with a smaller species.

With smaller tanks, you are dependent on your male/female ratio. It can make the difference between success and a horror movie.. 

Good luck to you!


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## IanR29 (Dec 13, 2012)

I'd still say its too small.

The best advice is normally that in which steers you in the direction of least resistance and less chances to fail. Just because 1 person says they've done it all doesn't mean it will work for you. If that person has in fact done it all then they have the experience and knowledge to do it right. Not the advice that needs to go to a beginner. It's ultimately your tank and you are free to do what ever you want. I'm just not going to tell you to put 3 Rottweilers in a kennel built to fit 1.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

IanR29 said:


> I'd still say its too small.
> 
> The best advice is normally that in which steers you in the direction of least resistance and less chances to fail. Just because 1 person says they've done it all doesn't mean it will work for you. If that person has in fact done it all then they have the experience and knowledge to do it right. Not the advice that needs to go to a beginner. It's ultimately your tank and you are free to do what ever you want. I'm just not going to tell you to put 3 Rottweilers in a kennel built to fit 1.


Agreed 100%. Exactly the point I was trying to convey!


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Me too and I will be the first person to try something that is not advised.

I don't have any issues with keeping any afra (or Saulosi) in a tank that size assuming 1 male per 3-5 females. The issues start with multiple males.

You would save yourself ALOT of trouble and provide a ton more flexibility of what you keep by adding 1 ft and going with a 55.

Afra show their best when there is competition in the tank too. 3 males is better than 1 in that regard.


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## Brucers1 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thank you all for your advice.

It is going to be a species only tank, I am going to keep Afra jalo Reef, 3M:9to12 females. I will make the distinct territories, thank you... Any advice on Diet? I will be getting 20 juvies.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Brucers1 said:


> Thank you all for your advice.
> 
> It is going to be a species only tank, I am going to keep Afra jalo Reef, 3M:9to12 females. I will make the distinct territories, thank you... Any advice on Diet? I will be getting 20 juvies.


I feed only Spirulina flakes. Best of luck on it & please keep us posted. Would be an awesome tank if successful. Sexing Jalo's can be tough though...


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## Brucers1 (Jan 8, 2013)

What % Spirulina? Shall I also feed NLS 1mm pellets? Can I also fee courgettes & Brine Shrimp?


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Brucers1 said:


> What % Spirulina? Shall I also feed NLS 1mm pellets? Can I also fee courgettes & Brine Shrimp?


NLS pellets are good food too... I would avoid brine shrimp along with any other animal protein based food.

Google malawi bloat. Mbuna need plant based foods.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

NLS is a great food. Spirulina flakes, depending on the supplier (some are actually less than 10% spirulina and have low quality fillers), can be good too.

To my former C. afra group (NB), including the male in my icon, I used to feed a staple of NLS with a 1x a week feeding of spirulina flake. I probably could have skipped the spirulina and gotten the same results (NLS actually has spirulina and other algae in it).



> Google malawi bloat. Mbuna need plant based foods.


Just to clear up a common misconception about mbuna - most, maybe even all are not strict herbivores. I know you say plant-based, so you are probably aware of this. But I just wanted to make sure others reading this were aware. If you look at the ingredients within NLS, for example, there is fish, shrimp, krill, spirulina, spinach, zucchini, squid, peas, fruit extract, etc. Plenty of animal proteins in here, but they are the right kinds of animal proteins (no beef, chicken, fatty worms) in a good balance with plant proteins.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks Kanorin...

That is a awesome Nkhata Bay BTW. Do you still have him>?


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

cantrell00 said:


> Thanks Kanorin...
> That is a awesome Nkhata Bay BTW. Do you still have him>?


Thanks, I do still have him, although I gave away all of his females and put him in my all-male tank. His color is not nearly as nice as it was when he had ladies to impress.


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## cantrell00 (Oct 30, 2010)

Nkhata's seem to show their best when competing with rival males too. At least that is the case with mine..


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Kanorin said:


> you look at the ingredients within NLS, for example, there is fish, shrimp, krill, spirulina, spinach, zucchini, squid, peas, fruit extract, etc. Plenty of animal proteins in here, but they are the right kinds of animal proteins (no beef, chicken, fatty worms) in a good balance with plant proteins.


And also if you compare among staple foods, it is one of the lowest in protein at 34%.


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## Stussi613 (May 8, 2009)

rekermbuna said:


> Oh, and Brucers1, with this size tank you are on the right track. You are going to need a smaller species like afra, or even demasoni. Had you asked if you could pull this off with Auratus or most larger mbuna, I would have suggested to go with a smaller species.
> 
> With smaller tanks, you are dependent on your male/female ratio. It can make the difference between success and a horror movie..
> 
> Good luck to you!


From my experience with demasoni and yellow labs in a 60g shorty I would say you CAN'T keep demasoni in that footprint, even with lots of rock work. I had 60lbs of lace rock that went 3/4 of the height of the tank from side to side with 12 dems and 4 labs and everything was fine until the dems spawned. Within two weeks of the female spitting in the tank (I thought they were too small to breed) I had 1 adult demasoni, 3 demasoni fry and 2 yellow labs. With that much rock it's easy to not see a holding female and demasoni have the reputation they do for a reason.

I eventually got 18 Saulosi and they thrived in the 36" tank for over a year until I switched to discus and sold them.


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## ratbones86 (Jun 29, 2012)

i say go with labs or rusties if your looking for a 3m-9f ratio they are not so mean and dont get that big.


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