# Yet another stocking question



## john85020 (Feb 24, 2015)

Hello, I am new to the forum, and would like to get some feedback on my set-up/ stocking plans This may get long!

First, a little about myself. I will start off by saying that this will be my first time maintaining a cichlid tank, but I've kept many tropical tanks in the past and still have one to this day. Limitations (usually floor space) have prevented me from owning cichlids in the past, but that's not the case anymore. The point is, I understand the basics of fish keeping like water changes, testing, and the famous "fish-less" cycle.

Next, I'd like to go over what I already have in terms of a set-up. My tank is an aqueon 75g with factory overflow. I also bought a used wet/dry set-up that consists of a 30g (30"x15"x16") sump, and a Rio 3500? pump that should deliver about 600gph in my application. So, in total, about 100g of water in the system. Additionally, I have a Magnum 350 for extra filtration. Finally, I have about 200 pounds of rock from a local landscape place, and of course, 100 lb of pool filter sand.

I do have a question about under gravel jets. I read these are useful for keeping detritus from collecting at the bottom of the tank, but most of the articles I find are pretty old. I also know that owners of reef tanks achieve a similar affect using a few powerheads to create a turbulent flow in the tank. Has the latter method superseded to the UGJ method? It seems that when using powerheads things would be easier to adjust once setup. Opinions? Anyone running UGJ?

I also have a plan for a hospital tank. I have a Fluval 106 canister filter, and a ~15g rubbermaid plastic tub. What I would like to do is keep the bio media from the CF in the sump of my main tank, then keep everything else in the garage, so I can set it up if the need arises. Does this sound reasonable?

Okay, on to the good stuff. I have an idea of the cichlids I want to keep (I know these are not traditional "beginners" cichlids):

12 x Psuedotropheus demasoni
4 x Maylandia estherae
1 x Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus (albino bristlenose pleco)

The others I'm interested in are:

8 x Melanochromis auratus- these are probably too agressive, can I keep all females of this species?
4 x Labeotropheus fuelleborni
4 x Cynotilapia afra blue reef
4 x Pseudotropheus sp "williamsi blue lips"

My ideal set-up would be the demasoni, red zebras, auratus, and the fuelleborni. I'm open to sugestions beyond what I listed. How many fish should I shoot for. I've read 15-20 for the larger species and 25-35 for the small ones, but I'm doing a mix. I plan to buy double the amount of fishes I want to keep, then weed out the problems/ males as they mature.


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## redfish15 (Jan 11, 2014)

Undergravel jets require more planning . I used a piece of cardboard that I cut to the dimensions of the footprint of my tank. I then arrange the rocks then I made the UGJ so I would have an Idea where the place the jets. UGJ gives a cleaner look to the tank. Each jet should have 125gph flow rate. I have two closed loop systems and use a Magnum 350 and a Maxi-jet 600 to power them. I tried to dye the pipe. it did not work so well. Some of the fittings lost their shape thus they would not fit together.


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## jw85 (Dec 24, 2013)

Sounds like you have done your homework! I'm not an mbuna guy so I can't help with stocking, but here are my thoughts on other questions.

I run a sump only in my 125, it does well enough on its own that I don't need anything else. Make sure you have plenty of filter socks and get used to washing them with bleach early on.

I run 4 powerheads and have never had an issue with detritus. There are a few places under rocks that get some piled up, but my fish dig it all out every time I feed. I have never used UGJs.

I do something similar for my hospital tank, except I have 3 tanks ready to go instead of 1. It probably wouldn't hurt over time to have more than 1.

If you have done your homework and have an awesome setup, I wouldn't be worried about starting with fish that aren't "beginner" cichlids.

Welcome and have fun!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

In a 48x18 tank with demasoni I'd probably do 3 species. You want at least 15 demasoni after removing males. 1m:4f estherae. I'd skip the auratus but you could probably do the fulleborni as the 3rd species, 1m:7f.

There are people running UGJ.


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## john85020 (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I think I'm going to try to go with a UGJ system, then maybe add a powerhead later if needed.

As for stocking, I would like to go with four species if possible. If I went with smaller species, then do you think I could get away with it? Maybe something like:

15 x demasoni
5 x red zebras
5 x rusties
5 x yellow labs

I have no desire to keep the fry.


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

john85020 said:


> Thanks to everyone for their replies. I think I'm going to try to go with a UGJ system, then maybe add a powerhead later if needed.
> 
> As for stocking, I would like to go with four species if possible. If I went with smaller species, then do you think I could get away with it? Maybe something like:
> 
> ...


Sometimes less is more. We need not cram as many colors as possible for a tank to look good. A tank full of only Demasoni and L.Caeruleus can look stunning with the incredible contast of only two colors.


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

I'd avoid mixing labs and red zebras. Even if you don't try to save the fry, some can survive and grow up, leaving you with hybrids in the tank.

With Demasoni in a 75g, I'd stick to 3 species.


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## IanR29 (Dec 13, 2012)

If you're set on something like Demasoni and labs, why not try Paeudotropheus saulosi? That's 1 species, the cynotilapia may fit find with them and you'll have 3 colors with out over crowding. Also, a thing to remember with malawi, male to female ratio is just as important as anything when it comes to stocking. You don't just want 15 Demasoni, you're going to want 1-2 male with 12-13 female.


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## john85020 (Feb 24, 2015)

TBA, I'm not a huge fan of the yellow labs, I just wanted more red/yellow in the tank. I've seen videos and pictures of setups with yellow labs/ demasoni and they usually look too blue to me. But, of course, how a tank looks simiply comes down to the preferences of the owner.

The thing is, the 4 species set-up I posted has a stocking of 128% on aqadvisor, which is almost the exact stocking level they have for their beginner 55g set-up. So, if I don't do four species, are you guys suggesting I go with something like this to keep the stocking up?

15 x demasoni
6-8 x red zebra
6-8 x rusty

I guess an alternative would be give up on the demasoni, and go with the saulosi, then something like:

8 x saulosi
5 x red zebra
5 x rusty
5 x blue reef afra

That might be too little blue then... and I do want to stick with the demasonis...

Finally, I understand the importance of m:f ratio- I just thought it was kinda assumed, so I omitted that data. I only plan to keep on male of each species.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You only want 20 fish so 15 demasoni plus 5 estherae plus 5 rusties is plenty. For four species do 1m:4f of each. What is a blue reef afra? Blue reef makes me think Cynotilapia sp hara but it's not an afra.


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## john85020 (Feb 24, 2015)

Okay, so 20 fish. The aqadvisor is throwing me off because when I put in a combo like 15 demasoni, 5 red zebra, and 5 rusties, it puts my stock at 102% which I thought was too low, but I'll trust your guys judgement over an automated site. The species I'm referring to is Cynotilapia afra blue reef (was listed in my first post too) which I saw for sale through the CichlidLovers website. I plan to buy from them since they are so close to me, but if they are not reputable, I can look elsewhere.

With all that said, I'm still considering IanR29's suggestion to go in a different direction than the demasoni. I liked the idea of the challenge that comes with keeping them, but I also like a tank with some variety and that seems be in contradiction to what I can do with them.

5 x saulosi
5 x red zebra
5 x rusty
5 x blue reef afra

or

15 x demasoni
5 x red zebra
5 x rusty

Those are sub 100% stocking on aqadvisor, but if you guys think its enough to control aggression, then I'd be very happy with either one, or something similar.


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## john85020 (Feb 24, 2015)

I just checked CichlidLover's website again, and they seem to list another name for this same fish: Cynotilapia afra "Hara" Gallireya reef. I hope that helps!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes that fish is not an afra. The correct scientific name at this time (LOL) is Cynotilapia sp. hara. I'd just ask them for the scientific name to confirm it's the right fish. Their supplier probably uses a "common" name but that does not necessarily mean they are not reputable (I am not familiar with the vendor).

Either will work. Demasoni are extra work, extra tanks, need rehoming plan. The saulosi females yellow-orange and the estherae females orange don't give enough contrast for me, but I would not expect problems with the mix.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

5 x demasoni
5 x red zebra
5 x rusty
This sounds like a pretty neat stocklist to me. But if you go with Demasoni, best to have a hospital tank available.

As far as the undergravel jets go - I don't think they work with sand (if I'm thinking of the right thing).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You meant 15 demasoni, right?

UGJ work with sand...fmueller has them. The J is for jets...you are thinking of under gravel filters.


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## john85020 (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks again to everyone for all the suggestions. I'm really liking the demasoni, red labs, and rustys combo, but I still have a lot of time to think as the tank is not even set-up yet!

Today I'm going to play around with my rocks, then post some pictures up for review. I also bought some pvc pipe and fittings to try and make some UGJs, so we'll see how that goes.


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## john85020 (Feb 24, 2015)

Okay, I wanted to do an update. I know everything looks half finished, but I mostly just want opinions on the rock pile Here is my tank as it stands now!









Is it possible to have too much rock??? I think I might be approaching the limit:\



The rocks only touch glass here, everywhere else I can get to the glass easily to clean. The rock touching here is separate from the main structure and easy to remove.
Unfortunately, the overflow limits what I can do with the space as well. It just seems to be right in the way, but oh well.



Right side.





Space between rocks and glass.





Filtration. The Rio pump was way too loud, so I got a QuiteOne pump, which is a lot better. It uses like half the power too! I need to rework the plumbing, esp the delivery line.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

I really like the tank and setup..and looks like you got a great deal! You've got some great looking rocks to work with.
I do like alot of the rockwork you've done..but I would consider maybe removing some of them and separating a couple (or three) piles..just to spread things out a little. It will allow the Demasoni males to keep territories apart easier. Also, with the Red Zebra and Rusties,..you are going to run in to a LOT of fry that end up surviving in the tank,..and impossible to get out without removing most the the rocks (holding females will be tough to catch too). I love the stocking combo, as I keep all 3, just giving you some warning. I have alot less rockwork and it's a constant fry issue with me, so have a plan for them. Good luck...and more pics!!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Looks fabulous, but you may regret the aquascape as time goes on.

Do think about cleaning inside ad behind the rock piles every week, and removing all the rocks when you have to catch a fish. Each male wants a space on the substrate surrounded by rocks no ceiling required. Having more smaller piles will give you the little segregated patches you need.


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## john85020 (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks for the replies! I'll definitately remove some rock and try to create more distinct piles this weekend. I actually mocked up the rockwork several times outside the tank, and it was more spread out, but then I guess I went a little crazy when adding it to the tank! I still have about 50 pounds of rock leftover, so there's about 150 pounds in there right now.

When setting up the rock, I realized that removing fish would be a PIA, but TBA I didn't even think of all the issues this could cause once the fish start breeding. Cleaning might not be as bad since I can actually get my gravel (sand) vacuum into most places around the rocks. The bottom level of rocks in also pretty spread out to (hopefully) allow for better flow at the bottom. It had to see this in the 2d photos though.



> and looks like you got a great deal!


The good deal was because the stand was damaged during shipping, so I had to a decent amount of repair work in exchange for the savings. The stand is still not 100%, but it is perfectly level with no shims and very sturdy, so I'm very happy with it.

Finally, I forgot to mention that I gave up on the UGJ idea. I like the look of a very shallow sand bed, and wanted the ability to easily move rocks around the tank, so I desided to try out the Jebao RW8 wavemaker to get a similar affect... we'll see how it goes!


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