# Why do they hide so much?



## luvplantsnfish (Nov 21, 2011)

Ok I have a 30 gallon tank that has 3M/4F yellow lab, and 1M/3F P. cyaneorhabdos the tank has sand for substrate and caves made of various rocks, and coral ph is ruffly 7.9, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate all normal, I do weekly water changes of 20% and the fish are healthy. My problem is that they spend 95% of the time hiding in the caves only comeing out to eat and then going back in. I did have alot more caves than I did fish and some one suggested takeing out some of the caves which I did but there has been no change in the fish activity. The tank has been up and running about 3 months now. Would adding more fish or maybe a different type help? I am use to my tropicals that are always out and about I thought cichlids would be the same way but these guys are the complete oppisite. :?


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## Mr Mbunas (Dec 1, 2011)

My questions are:

Are the fish hiding but active? Or are the fish hiding and lethargic?

What are the sizes of the fish? A 30 gallon isn't exactly ideal.

When you say your water parameters are "normal," what are they exactly?

Lastly, where is the tank located in the house? I suppose if the tank was in an area where there is a lot of noise/human activity, they would be more skittish.

Hopefully this helps.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Dont feel bad, my yellow labs are the same way and theyve been in the tank for about a year and its in the living room too with activity going on around it. It was so bad I went out and bought 7 more Mbunas about 3-4 months ago to try and see if that helped them feel safe but no luck. The 7 new Mbunas never swim away when I pass the tank but the YLs will swim and hide like wusses. But when its feeding time you better believe those YLs come out!! 

Some fish are just skittish and if one fish is more skittish it will make the others just as skittish. Im glad it didnt rub off of the others, Its weird that its only the yellow labs that are like that????


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## Fishisompin (Jan 16, 2012)

Some fish are like that, but rarely. Sometimes an individual is not "sane", but this seems different. Try moving your rocks more to the back, they get room to hide but not to swim around in the back. Explore new rock designs. It is not necessary for every fish to have his own cave, they claim territory too, which you can watch. Observe carefully the fish before you buy them, they should always come up to the front. If there are any hiding, or staying back, don't get those individual ones :fish:


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## luvplantsnfish (Nov 21, 2011)

Thanks for your replies. Now let me answer the questions:
Mr Mbunas-They are active but just stay hidden the majority of the time. The fish are around 2 inches long and I am going to be upgradeing their tank to a 55 with in the month I am haveing the floor redone in my living room and after it is done I will be getting them a larger tank. The parameters are Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate less than 5.0 but a little darker than 0. The tank is in the living room but it is only my husband and myself and we are pretty calm adults no partys or danceing or jumping around no loud music or tv. 
Sub-Mariner- What else could I put in the tank and how many? I am new to cichlids but have been keeping tropicals since I was 10 and am now 34. Also its both the labs and the P. cyaneorhabdos that hide but the labs hide much more. I thought cichlids were suspose to be tough fish not scaredy fish. LOL


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

I'd give them small snacks a number of times throughout the day, that way they'll learn to come out every time you approach the tank.

Just wondering, are their lights on a timer?

Mine only disappear when a net hits the water!


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## Mr Mbunas (Dec 1, 2011)

Everything seems fine then, hopefully rearranging will make them less skittish. Best of luck then :thumb:


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Likely hiding due to aggression. the bigger tank will help.
Get say 3 more labs and 7 more mainganos when you get the 55 gallon. That will fix the aggression a lot.


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## luvplantsnfish (Nov 21, 2011)

They were on a timer to begin with but the timer stopped working but I still turn the lights on and off at the same time everyday I do not work so for now I am thier timer. The lights are on 9 hours a day just like my planted tanks are. What other fish could I put in with them that will be more active/visiable? I would like something with color with this tank I wanted an active colorful tank but what I have is color but not much activity. :roll:


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

nothing more in a 30 gallon, and you need to fix those ratios before you think about other species.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Nodalizer said:


> Likely hiding due to aggression. the bigger tank will help.
> Get say 3 more labs and 7 more mainganos when you get the 55 gallon.


 :thumb:

They are afraid so they hide. Too many males and choices are too aggressive. Some people have trouble with maingano even in a 55G and find that a 75G (48" x 18" rectangle) works better.


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## luvplantsnfish (Nov 21, 2011)

I would think aggression to but there is not really anyone chaseing anyone around. They all come out and eat together and no chaseing goes on also several times I have seen two or more in the same cave hanging out together. I do not have room for a 75 I already have a 55, a 44, a 20, a 5 and a 2.5 gallon so what would be a good colorful fish to add that would work in a 55 with the others and not be to aggresive when I get it set up?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

You have not seen chasing, but it did happen, fish are not silly enough to hang about in the open if they experienced chasing at some stage. Even after you get the ratios right you will find they might hide for a while until they feel safe. So adding the new fish when you get the new tank is good because the extra area coupled with the new fish will bring them out of hiding earlier.

Ok this is what you got now correct?


> 3M/4F yellow lab, and 1M/3F P. cyaneorhabdos, 30 gallon


What you need eventually is:

1M/3-4Fmale or more of the Labidochromis caeruleus (Yellow)
1M/5-7Fmale of the Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos (maingano)
and a 55 gallon or bigger.

Some notes:
You cannot add any more maingano right now as they are not territorial and line of sight defend. So when you get your bigger tank you can cut vision of the tank into 3rds by adding 2 rock piles. The female cyaneorhabdos will almost always hide from the males even with right ratios, so restricting the males vision is important.

With enough cyaneorhabdos they will not bother the yellow labs much. So all you need with the labs is to fix that ratio so they don't attack each other.

Problems when larger:
The Yellow lab male when bigger will defend a territory, the maingano will not hold one nor will he respect the yellow labs territory full time. This means if you have 2 male yellows in a 55 gallon tank there will be 2 territories and no room for the maingano and he could possiblly kill or be killed. This part is the hit and miss with maingano, maybe the maingano will begin to be passive (you will know this if he is more blue then black), if this happens you might be ok with the 2 labs, but nine times out of ten there will be a lot of fighting.

Maingano can be quite peaceful, but not with there own species. You need plenty of females for the male to harrass. They will chase, its just what they do, but as long as there is plenty of females he will not chase the one fish to death (some smaller rock piles are handy for the females to escape the chase and lose the males interest). For a beginner, I would never recommend more then one male maingano. Soon as you see a sub dom male appear, vent and if hes male swap it at the LFS.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

luvplantsnfish, if youre not around your tank do your fish come out and swim around or all they always hiding? The YLs in my Moms 55g are always swimming around but as soon as they see any movement in the living room, they haul tail to their caves but the new ones will come up to the top expecting food, they never hide.

If your fish are always hiding even when theres no movement around the tank they Id say theyre scared and dont want be vulnerable out in the open. Hope you figure it out. :thumb:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd skip the maingano in a 55G (Members have had difficulty with it and had better luck in a 75G) and choose two other species to go with your labs. And I'd trade in some of the male labs for females.


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## luvplantsnfish (Nov 21, 2011)

Ok thanks everyone for your help. I really like the maingano but do not want either fish to be stressed out by the others more than needed. If I trade them in for something else as well as trade two of the males labs that would leave the labs at 1M/4F what would be a good choice to go with once I get the 55 set up? Would it be ok to switch 2 of the male labs for 2 female? I have always wanted yellow labs so I want something that will work with them and I love blue which is why I got the maingano when I was told they would be fine with the labs in the 30 gallon so if there is another that has a good bit of blue that would work and maybe a red or orange or really any other pretty color that will work in a 55 with the labs.
ETA: What if I do 1M/6F Labs, 1M/6F Maingano, and then maybe one other type in the 55? Also Sub you had asked of they always stay hise and yes they do the only time they come out is when I feed them and then its to grab a bit of food and then hide again.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd avoid the maingano in a 55G entirely. If you buy a 75G (48" x 18" rectangle) instead, then that's fine.

You could do demasoni in the 55G with your labs to get the bright blue color, but make sure you keep the 30G handy for a hospital and don't mind tearing down the tank to catch fish every six months or so. :thumb:


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Grab a bit of food?

I would try not feeding for a couple of days and see if they come looking for food a bit more eagerly. The worry would be bloat if they are not feeding correctly (another side effect of aggression.


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## luvplantsnfish (Nov 21, 2011)

Thanks everyone for all your help.


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## luvplantsnfish (Nov 21, 2011)

I went by my favorite LFS today and spoke to the owner and he has a used but like new 4ft long 75 gallon tank with a wooden stand, a new glass hood, new dual light fixture and a new marineland HOB filter for about $300 is that a good deal? I spent a while there chatting with him about fish and stuff and looking at fish he has a supplier for so I have come up with a tentative stock plan of 1M/6F labs, 1M/3F maingano, and then one of these 3 Aulonocara "German Red", Aulonocara Rubescens, Aulonocara Stuartgranti "Ngara", would one of these work and if so which and what would the M/F ratio be? Thanks again for all you help. If the tank is a good deal the owner said he would be willing to hold it for me for 2 weeks until I get my taxes. So what do you guys think?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If the stand is REALLY nice it's not a bad deal. The tank is worth about $75.

You want 1m:7f of the maingano due to aggression. I would not mix peacocks with maingano.

If you want peacocks, then do Pseudotropheus acei in place of the maingano. :thumb:


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## luvplantsnfish (Nov 21, 2011)

Can you tell me why you would not mix the two? Its not that I doubt you or anything I am just trying to learn. :wink: If you could tell me what you would mix with the maingano and the labs? According to the profiles these are all non-aggressive.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Maingano are very aggressive. Peacocks are not. The peacocks are likely to get beat up. That is generally true with mbuna/peacock combinations.

An extremely peaceful mbuna like a lab can work with peacocks. But an extremely aggressive mbuna like maingano has low odds for success.

I've had cynotilapia kill peacocks and they are much less aggressive than maingano.


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## luvplantsnfish (Nov 21, 2011)

Ok that makes sense. LOL What if I get rid of the Maingano? Am I right that I should not have two different peacocks because they can mix? What if I got one of the haplochromines?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I agree with the no peacocks. But not with the extremely aggressive mbuna part. They are relatively passive towards other species if kept in the right ratios. I have kept these for years in the past with little problems with labs. Just starting up a new maingano/lab tank myself.

1 male to 7 female would be minimum for Maingano. And you could cut back on the labs if you like, 1m to 3-4 female will suffice.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Peacock-lab-hap will work. Look for haps that mature at 6" or less.


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## luvplantsnfish (Nov 21, 2011)

Ok thanks DJ now to decide which ones besides the labs to go with. LOL I am pretty sure I will go with the German Red for the peacock, and I am going to spend today looking and researching the haps to see what I can decide on. I also think instead of the pool filter sand I have now in the 30 I will go with either a black sand or the cichlid sand that is black and white. Does anybody know a cheap place to get black sand?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

why not change substrate when you get the bigger tank ?


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## luvplantsnfish (Nov 21, 2011)

That is when I would be doing it to much hassle to do it now when I will be getting the other tank in two weeks. :wink: Just planning ahead of time. :thumb:


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