# Advice with new setup please



## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

G'day guys,

Just seeking some advice on my new setup I'm planning.

I have recently just purchased a "AKVASTABIL EFFECT-LINE" tank. Dimensions are 1600mm (L) X 550mm (W) X 600mm (H). Tank is 528L or 140 Gal. This will be my biggest setup so far.

I am going to be installing a 3D background, crushed coral sand and using texas holey rock or slate rock. For filtration I have a Fluval FX5 Canister filter which I was planning to pack with SeaChem Matrix and SeaChem Purigen.

I am also going to be constructing an under gravel jet system (UGJ) with about 8 jets powered by 2 submersible pumps with sponge pre filters.

Firstly just wanted to know how many lph or gph I need the pumps to be? How much flow do you lose through the pvc and how much should there be for each jet for it to be efficient?

Secondly, will this be sufficient filtration? Would this be considered over filtering or just on par?

I am wanting to stock as many africans as the tank will allow whilst still running efficiently, healthy and stable. I want the tank to be filtered the best it can be and since I am starting from scratch, I have the added benefit of planning everything right from the begginning.

I was thinking about adding a sump but would rather not if I can avoid it. I know stuff all about sumps also. Would the added filtration from a sump really be worth the extra trouble in this setup?

Any thoughts, advice or ideas is greatly appreciatred.

Cheers, Joey


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## Mikecacho (Jul 9, 2011)

I would want the tank to cycle 6 times an hour minimum, so at 140gallons that would require 850 gallons per hour, technically speaking, but with tubing and filters added it will be closer to 550GPH, so i would go with 1200GPH, you definitly will need another filter. I like to go a little over board, but it will mostly depend on your stocking size.


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

Mikecacho said:


> I would want the tank to cycle 6 times an hour minimum, so at 140gallons that would require 850 gallons per hour, technically speaking, but with tubing and filters added it will be closer to 550GPH, so i would go with 1200GPH, you definitly will need another filter. I like to go a little over board, but it will mostly depend on your stocking size.


Sorry mate in Australia we use Litres instead of gallons but I will stick with gallons.

my tank is 140 gal so 6 times over would be 840 gal. My FX5 turns over 925 gal an hour. You really think the tubing and filters will limit the flow more than 85 gal an hour???

So your sayin in addition to the FX5, I would need another filter rated at around 275 gal an hour?


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## dillon0990 (Jun 11, 2011)

when looking at filtration the min is 6 times an hour but 10 is ideal. If i was you id throw on an emperor 400 or ac110 hang on filter just to add that extra flow. i hear a lot of good things about the emperors and they are fairly cheap atleast compared to canister.


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

dillon0990 said:


> when looking at filtration the min is 6 times an hour but 10 is ideal. If i was you id throw on an emperor 400 or ac110 hang on filter just to add that extra flow. i hear a lot of good things about the emperors and they are fairly cheap atleast compared to canister.


I don't think you can buy them in Australia?


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

You actually can get them in Australia. Relatively cheap too!

Only problem is I probably can't hang this on my tank due to the design. See pic below.










What do you think?


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## dillon0990 (Jun 11, 2011)

yeah probably not but that is one awesome looking tank!! mayb canister is the only way you can go


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

dillon0990 said:


> yeah probably not but that is one awesome looking tank!! mayb canister is the only way you can go


Thanks mate. So you reckon add another canister? Would this be as effective as the hang on and will this count as the 10 times turn over?

Heres another pic. Going to paint the doors another colour though.


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

First off, really cool looking tank and stand. It's kind of got an industrial/modern look to it.

Second, I think if you use an FX5 and UGJ with sponge filters on the powerheads I think you'll be OK as far as flow and turnover rate goes. I'm in the process off setting up a 125 with exactly this setup and yours is only 15 gallons bigger than mine so I think it'll be fine. Of course there's nothing wrong with adding an additional filter if you like, but I wouldn't agree that it was definitely needed. You can always add on down the line if need be.

I didn't like the stock outlet of the FX5 so I built a DIY spray bar for the FX5, you can do a Google search for FX5 DIY Spraybar to find the instructions, but here's what mine looks like at the top:










Mine is exactly like the directions say except that I used a tee instead of an elbow for the last fitting before the spray bar so the flow would go both ways more evenly. My spray bar goes out both sides to within 6" of the ends of the tank to disperse all that flow. I used 1/8" holes 2" apart and get a good stream but I don't think enough to blow fish around. I'll find out when I get some fish in there.

I used two Rio 2100 powerheads for my UGJs. I designed it with all 45 degree elbows to reduce pressure drop and am pretty happy with the flow at each jet. Here's a pic of the layout I used. The closed loop system is definitely better than the open loop system I did as a test case in my 20 gallon. The flow is much more even from each jet than with the open system.


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## Mikecacho (Jul 9, 2011)

dillon0990 said:


> when looking at filtration the min is 6 times an hour but 10 is ideal. If i was you id throw on an emperor 400 or ac110 hang on filter just to add that extra flow. i hear a lot of good things about the emperors and they are fairly cheap atleast compared to canister.


Emperor 400 is a beast, again this all depends on stocking size, i would highly recommened another filter if you plan to go heavy on fish, if not then i still would go with another filter, to turn the tank 6-10 times per hour, and yes media slows down flow.

stock the extra filter with sponge for bacteria colony growth.


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## Chunkanese (Feb 4, 2011)

I only have 2 units of main filtration on my 125. I have a sump running with a mag1800 and than a single Emperor400. The 400 is a champ. I got sand stuck in it by accident which impeded its performance until i cleaned it and its running like brand new. My tank is also heavily stocked with around 35 fish mostly haps. As they grow i will thin out that number, but for now its by far enough filtration.


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## Mikecacho (Jul 9, 2011)

Chunkanese said:


> I only have 2 units of main filtration on my 125. I have a sump running with a mag1800 and than a single Emperor400. The 400 is a champ. I got sand stuck in it by accident which impeded its performance until i cleaned it and its running like brand new. My tank is also heavily stocked with around 35 fish mostly haps. As they grow i will thin out that number, but for now its by far enough filtration.


My Emperor 400 is noisy at the shaft sounds like vibration or knocking, but all my penguin filters have been that way, do you have any recommendation on quieting it down?


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

Norm66 said:


> First off, really cool looking tank and stand. It's kind of got an industrial/modern look to it.
> 
> Second, I think if you use an FX5 and UGJ with sponge filters on the powerheads I think you'll be OK as far as flow and turnover rate goes. I'm in the process off setting up a 125 with exactly this setup and yours is only 15 gallons bigger than mine so I think it'll be fine. Of course there's nothing wrong with adding an additional filter if you like, but I wouldn't agree that it was definitely needed. You can always add on down the line if need be.
> 
> ...


G'day mate!

Thanks for the advice and pics. Really appreciate it.

Great idea with the spray bar I'm definetly gonna do that. How do you support it in place?

If you guys are suggesting another filter what types? As you can see I cannot use a hang on style filter with my hood?


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## travisbundo (May 4, 2011)

Although the Emp 400 is a good value, I would go with an AquaClear 110 without a doubt if you're getting a HOB filter. The Emp400 is loud. Also, Imo the FX5 should do the job just fine, but it really depends on how stocked the tank is going to be. 240 inches of fish or less and I imagine the FX5 should do it. More fish than that, you might want to add another canister or hob.


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

Not a problem. Glad to help.

The PVC holds the center and I just bent a wire coat hanger into a doubled L-shape tht fits over the lip of the tank and zip tied the spray bar to it. I painted the wire to hide it.

Honestly the FX5 is a lot of filter. In conjunction with sponge pre-filters on the power head inlets I think you'll have plenty of filtration unless your tank is really heavily stocked. I would feel comfortable starting the tank up and then if you think you need more filtration figuring it out then.


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

Thanks for the advice guys.

I'll keep you posted.


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## FishFlake (Mar 7, 2010)

Mikecacho said:


> My Emperor 400 is noisy at the shaft sounds like vibration or knocking, but all my penguin filters have been that way, do you have any recommendation on quieting it down?


I like the job my Emperer 400 does, but it has the same problem ("sounds like vibration or knocking"). I changed out the impeller which helped a little, but it's still way too noisy. I've taken it apart, cleaned it, didn't see any obvious problems, put it back together---no change.

I have a fluval canister that is dead silent and an AC 70 on another tank that is nearly silent. Don't know if this is typical of the Emperer or if I just got a lemon, but I won't buy another Penguin or Emperer.


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## dinuma (Jul 21, 2011)

the advantages of a sump:
1. easier to clean and maintain
2. much larger filter volume and efficacy
3. added water volume to accommodate more fish, etc etc

i had 2 eheim 2217s alone on my 80 gal (approx. 300 liter) tank. i added a sump some months ago just as an experiment 30 Gal (115 liter). i know its an overkill on the size of the tank but i can turn off the eheims and the sump alone will do the job very well. i also keep smaller fish and fry in the sump till they grow large enough to fend for themselves in the main tank

IMO i'd go with sump. you can make the return flow like suggested above with an elongated spray bar. BTW the long bar rests on the braces of the tank (in mine they do). will post pictures asap. sorry dont have any right now


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

So can I make a sump without drilling my tank?

And will it work with my hood?


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## dinuma (Jul 21, 2011)

Sorry Joey, if you dont modify the hood or want to drill the tank then you cant have a way for the water to flow from the tank into a sump. from the picture supplied there does not seem to be any space for a weir box type of out flow either. i have a hole drilled about 3 inches from the top edge of my tank. i had asked for it to be drilled about and inch from the top edge but this was done by mistake by the person who drilled it. if it high enough then you dont see the outflow tube and the return hole can be drilled at the same upper level. since the return is always narrower than the outflow the upper levels can remain the same but the lower level is lower for the outflow.

BTW, what is your objection about the drilling. done correctly it is very safe and with the proper bulkhead fittings and washers it wont leak. i was anxious too but have a lot more confidence now after my first drilled tank. in my next project i plan to drill the bottom for a neater outward appearance.

Looking back on the picture you have displayed, im not sure there is even space for the out/in pipes of an eheim or other canister filter either and im wondering how you will eventually filter the tank without any modification of the hood...


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

dillon0990 said:


> when looking at filtration the min is 6 times an hour but 10 is ideal.


That 10x number is often thrown out as a rule of thumb, I believe it generally applies to HOB style filters.

I'd like to inject an alternate view, though. There are basically 2 types of filtration : biological, and mechanical (I skip chemical since imho it's not a type of filtration that should be used continuously). As far as biological filtration goes, the 10x turnover rate is simply not necesary. You need to get the ammonia and nitrite through the filter to get it detoxified into nitrate (which is still toxic, but less so than the others). A turnover of 1x or 2x per hour is likely sufficient to achieve this. This is why you'll see relatively low flow rates in an eheim classic cannister, and why UGF's worked for decades before these new-fangled fancy filters became all the rage. If all your ammonia is getting turned into nitrate, then you have enough biological filtration, and "more" isn't really more, since it doesn't do anything more. zero ammonia is zero ammonia is zero ammonia.

Mechanical filtration, on the other hand, _can_ benefit from additional flow rate. Many people recommend adding an AC110 to get some mechanical filtration, and there's nothing wrong with that. If your water clarity is not up to your personal aesthetic standards, or if there is detritus in the aquarium (poo, etc) that you'd rather not see, then you need more mechanical filtration. Note that this mechanical filtration has no effect on the health of your fish or the quality of your water (aside from "clarity" which really is for you, not the fish).

What you do with that detritus, however, WILL Have an effect of the quality of your water. If you have poo on the substrate and you just let it sit there, it will decompose into ammonia, and increase the effective bioload of your tank. your bio filter will have to work harder to keep up, and you'll have more nitrate.

If you add mechanical filtration to suck that poo into the filter, and you let it sit there in the filter (out of sight, out of mind), it will also decompose into ammonia, increasing the effective bioload of your tank, just as if you had left it on the sand.

If, on the other hand, you *remove* the detritus, either by vacuuming it off the substrate of your tank during your weekly water change, or by servicing your mechanical filter during your weekly maintenance, then it will not add to the bioload of your tank, and your fish will thank you. Adding flow in the form of an easily serviced filter (like an AC110) can help suck that detritus out of sight, and put it in a convenient place to remove at a regular interval. Sucking that same detritus into a canister filter that might not get serviced for 3 months, however, is actually worse for your water quality than leaving it in the tank until your weekly water change (assuming you actually vacuum out the detritus at that time).



> If i was you id throw on an emperor 400 or ac110 hang on filter just to add that extra flow. i hear a lot of good things about the emperors and they are fairly cheap atleast compared to canister.


I won't argue with this advice, since both of these filters are fairly easily to service, and can therefor be useful for removing detritus from your system. Just be sure when you start adding filtration that you're doing it for reasons you understand, and not just to meet some arbitrary flow rate rule of thumb.

It will never hurt to add more filtration (until you get a whirling dervish that sucks up your poor fish) other than the pain you might feel in your pocketbook, so I won't argue against going overboard -- just be aware that you might be spending money and getting very little in return.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## seamist (Jul 29, 2011)

> when looking at filtration the min is 6 times an hour but 10 is ideal. If i was you id throw on an emperor 400 or ac110 hang on filter just to add that extra flow. i hear a lot of good things about the emperors and they are fairly cheap atleast compared to canister.


Im new, and looking for advice... I saw this statement... I just want to ask if i am understanding it correct...

filtration of 10 times and hour, does that mean all the water in the tank has passed threw the filter 10 times in one hour?


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

seamist said:


> > when looking at filtration the min is 6 times an hour but 10 is ideal. If i was you id throw on an emperor 400 or ac110 hang on filter just to add that extra flow. i hear a lot of good things about the emperors and they are fairly cheap atleast compared to canister.
> 
> 
> Im new, and looking for advice... I saw this statement... I just want to ask if i am understanding it correct...
> ...


That is indeed what it means, however I suggest you look past the rule of thumb and understand your particular situation . The rule of thumb is a reasonable starting place if you expect to have large, messy cichlids and you're filtering your tank with HOB style filters.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## dinuma (Jul 21, 2011)

Thank you Rick, you've hit the nail of filtration dead center on the head and I hope that clears up the concepts of many here.

here's my 0.02 addition on chemical filtration:
though ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are also chemicals we are trying to remove from the tank the term chemical filtration does not apply to these. with chemical filtration we aim to remove other chemicals like drugs, toxins, phosphates, etc. most commonly this is done with various substances and compounds like activated charcoal which adsorb the to-be-removed substance on its surface and this is eventually "spent" or runs out. so these substances need to be changed at regular intervals. in fresh water tanks usually these toxic substances we are concerned with are encountered when the tank is started with lots of new objects put into the tank simultaneously (sometimes without washing). [marine set ups differ in this regard as far as i know and need chemical filtration in the form of kalkwasser, protein skimmers etc.] getting back to fresh water set ups - once the tank is set up and the nitrogen cycle is established the chemical filtration can be safely left out most of the time unless you have some disease and add medication to the tank and want to get the meds out after the treatment.


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

dinuma said:


> Sorry Joey, if you dont modify the hood or want to drill the tank then you cant have a way for the water to flow from the tank into a sump. from the picture supplied there does not seem to be any space for a weir box type of out flow either. i have a hole drilled about 3 inches from the top edge of my tank. i had asked for it to be drilled about and inch from the top edge but this was done by mistake by the person who drilled it. if it high enough then you dont see the outflow tube and the return hole can be drilled at the same upper level. since the return is always narrower than the outflow the upper levels can remain the same but the lower level is lower for the outflow.
> 
> BTW, what is your objection about the drilling. done correctly it is very safe and with the proper bulkhead fittings and washers it wont leak. i was anxious too but have a lot more confidence now after my first drilled tank. in my next project i plan to drill the bottom for a neater outward appearance.
> 
> Looking back on the picture you have displayed, im not sure there is even space for the out/in pipes of an eheim or other canister filter either and im wondering how you will eventually filter the tank without any modification of the hood...


The tank has cut outs built into the rear of the hood for a canister filter but you are right...I don't know how I would add a second.

I am a bit anxious about the drilling. I do have the option of drilling at the bottom since the tank is not yet setup. Is there a guide or article on here somewhere on here about how to setup a sump?

Thanks for all the advice guys...really appreciated.



Rick_Lindsey said:


> dillon0990 said:
> 
> 
> > when looking at filtration the min is 6 times an hour but 10 is ideal.
> ...


This is a real good point Rick and makes a lot of sense. I will definitely take that on board and have a good think first.

CHeers guys.


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## dinuma (Jul 21, 2011)

If you have a cut out for canister filters & you insist on a sump & also insist on not drilling or DIY-ing the tank or hood from what is supplied the only option is a weir box. here's a link for the design. it will fit over the top edge of the tank in the cut out and not damage any part. hopefully the cut out is about 7-8 inches wide, that's how wide the weir box needs to be.

http://www.melevsreef.com/sump.html

i dont like the design of the sump given here since it is more difficult to clean than mine. it is also difficult to make with the multiple baffles, 1 inch distance between them, etc. the purpose of multiple baffles is to prevent air bubbles from entering the pump. my design manages that very well without the multiple baffles.

i have adapted mine from several working designs i saw in the pet market at Bangkok - the largest pet supply market in the world that i have ever seen under one roof!

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vWfr5FJtkRViCeMI-oR29w?feat=directlink

This arrangement allows for easy removal and cleaning of the filter floss which collects a lot of detritus. I have a pre-filter on the pump as well and clean that too with the filter floss about every week when I do my water changes. The ball valve regulates flow through the refugium and flow into the main tank as well. I clean my bioballs, coral gravel & foam mat about every 2-2.5 years. They hardly get dirty with the filter floss being cleaned every week. After about 12-15 washes I replace the filter floss and pre-filter on the pump. The width of the receiving chamber is about 8 inches (not worth increasing this width). The first (left side) baffle is about 1 inch above the base glass. The 2nd baffle (right side) is siliconed to the base glass and about 1.5 inches below the top of the sump. The middle chamber houses the pump and is about 12 inches wide (variable). I siphon as much detritus from the tank as possible during the water changes. I also siphon the sump occasionally (once in 3-4 months) when i find detritus in it. this lands up here since it is open at the top and dust falls in directly.

hope this helps. all the best.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

dinuma said:


> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vWfr5FJtkRViCeMI-oR29w?feat=directlink


I followed the link but no picure... do you need to make it public or somesuch?

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## dinuma (Jul 21, 2011)

Sorry Folks,
here it is:
https://picasaweb.google.com/dinuma/SumpDesign?authuser=0&feat=directlink


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi guys,

So I've been doing a bit of work trying to get the tank up and running...

I disassembled the stand and had it re-sprayed in 2-pac. Black Satin with White Satin doors. Came up a treat!










Purchased a Malawi 3D background...




























I haven't yet installed the background as yet...I have trimmed the top and sides only. I went and picked up some 25mm Poly pipe and some fittings so I can split the FX5 return line into two and run them behind the backgorund and have 2 outlets...Will be doing this tomorrow.

Also began constructing an under-gravel jet system which consists of 11 jets and 2 X 2600lph submersible pumps. I have not yet put the jets on or the pumps...but as you can see the two T-pieces that point in the opposite direction will have a length of PVC which will extend behind the background to hide the pumps.










Will keep you guys posted.


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## dinuma (Jul 21, 2011)

IMHO 2600LPH is a huge amount of water through each pump. you plan to have 2 of these!!! even considering the bends and joints, etc. just think... eventually you will have 5200 LPH flowing through these under-gravel jet pipes alone and the filter will be separate. I think you will end up with a dust storm in the tank or very turbulent currents if they are directed well upward. you might want to re-think the flow capacity of the pumps on the UG-jet system. the purpose is only to cause a mild current that "blows" the detritus toward the filter outlet or into a corner of the tank so it can be siphoned out at regular intervals.

after re-reading your post, im not clear where these 2x2600 lph pumps are going. in case they are for driving a sump return back into the tank via the UG-jets then again you'll end up with the same situation as the above case scenario (dust storm).

in case these pumps are ONLY for the sump return then you need to ensure you have a safety run off from the sump out flow BACK into the sump. i just bought a 1750 lph pump by hailea (could not find an eheim in time and my old pump had lived its life and died a silent death). my out flow into the sump is a 1 and half inch diameter PVC pipe through a modified durso kind of design. the pump was way too powerful and water was filling the tank faster that the outflow!! luckily i had a ball-valve diversion in the sump and i could regulate this to match the outflow so i didnt have a tank over flowing in my living room. you would have to have a rather large weir box or 3 to 4 1.5 inch pipes for the in-flow into the sump with such powerful pumps.

Nice BG though!!!


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

dinuma said:


> IMHO 2600LPH is a huge amount of water through each pump. you plan to have 2 of these!!! even considering the bends and joints, etc. just think... eventually you will have 5200 LPH flowing through these under-gravel jet pipes alone and the filter will be separate. I think you will end up with a dust storm in the tank or very turbulent currents if they are directed well upward. you might want to re-think the flow capacity of the pumps on the UG-jet system. the purpose is only to cause a mild current that "blows" the detritus toward the filter outlet or into a corner of the tank so it can be siphoned out at regular intervals.
> 
> after re-reading your post, im not clear where these 2x2600 lph pumps are going. in case they are for driving a sump return back into the tank via the UG-jets then again you'll end up with the same situation as the above case scenario (dust storm).
> 
> ...


G'day mate,

Thanks for the advice.

Maybe this picture will clear things up a bit...










As you can see, the pumps are hidden behind the background and fed through to the front. I DO NOT have a sump.

The PVC is 15mm (1/2 inch)...What kind of flow rating for the two pumps should I be looking at?

This is my first experiment with UGJ system so your help is much appreciated.

Got the poly pipe fittings fixed in place today...also drilled about 5 25mm holes on the bottom on inconspicuous angles and siliconed brown gutter guard to the back. I have used silicone and brown dirt to hide the white colour of the foam.

I also drilled about 25 X 6mm holes in inconspicuous spots all over...I should not have ny issues with pressure building up behind it. Tomorrow I'm planning on setting it in place with silicone.


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

Judging by all the guides and posts on here...it seems most people use the Rio 2100 pumps which have a flow rating of 692GPH...People are using 2 pumps on a system with 8 jets...my system has 11 jets???


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

If I remember correctly, the UGJ in the original Library article used two Rio 2100s for 8 jets. Based on that when I designed my UGJ for my 125 gallon I decided to go with two Rio 2100s.

With both my pumps running (8 jets; pictured earlier in this thread) it's too much flow. So what I do is run one of the pumps 24/7 and only kick the other one on for a few minutes a day to clear out the bottom really well. It definitely kicks a bunch of stuff up when I do this and I really only leave it on for 2-5 minutes usually right before a feeding. The fish don't seem to mind the extra flow, but I don't feel comfortable leaving them both on full-time.


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## sik-lid (Sep 6, 2011)

Thats a pretty bada$$ system to say the least. I am curious to see it in action. Keep us posted..


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## dinuma (Jul 21, 2011)

with 2 UGJ inlets like you have here's what i would do:
on each inlet i would put a 200-300 Gallons Per Hour (700-1000 Liters Per Hour) powerhead (remember to put a pre-filter in the intake of the powerheads or you'll clog up the impeller very very soon). this would generate enough flow without too much turbulence. you could even get the 2 powerheads at opposite extremes of this range to ensure a differential flow through the lower levels of the tank i.e. one of 200GPH and the other of 300 GPH

make sure the outlets of the UGJs are directed toward the filter out-flows so the detritus is whisked away by the filters. you can minimise the load on the filters by siphoning out the detritus from the main tank areas during every weekly water change as much as possible. you would also need to clean out the pre-filters on the UGJ system during the water changes.

your idea of holes in the BG for water to percolate is nice. instead of dirt to cover the exposed foam use the same sand you plan to place in the tank. hope the fish dont pile up sand over the holes you've made. love the BG!!!

i assume your filter out-flows from the tank are going to be placed behind the BG as well. will you be using an external canister filter or a HOB? i recommend the former so the out-flows can be adjusted just an inch or more above the substrate level at the back. in front of these you could make a rather large cut out in the BG and cover it from the front view by a precisely placed stone or rock slab that will not obstruct the UGJ from blowing into the out-flows but also cover the opening. this will have to be planned out very carefully before you actually cut into the BG. (of course if the cut is nice and smooth you could always silicone the mistake back in place ;-) )

looking forward to the finished product :thumb:


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

I have purchased 2 X Rio HyperFlow 10HF pumps which are CAPABLE of 2600LPH...this does not mean they will necessilary pump that once it goes through the bends. I would rather have more and have the option of turning one off if its too much than be stuck with two powerheads that don't pump enough and would be pretty much useless. I also picked up all the necessary fittings and hoses to hook the pumps up to the jets.

I am not using "dirt" as such to conceal the exposed foam. It's rather a dark brown/black sand similar to the colour of the backgrounf. I am planning on using crushed coral substrate which is white so if I used this...it would make it stand out more...this way it blends in nicely.

I am going to be using an Fluval FX5 Canister. I am not going to be cutting any more holes than what I have already shown you. At the moment you cannot possibly see the holes at all. If I cut a larger hole and used a rock to hide it...this means I would always have to place this rock there and cannot change the aquascape without keeping it there.

I think the holes in there are plenty for the detritus to make its way behind the wall and into the filter. I am planning on placing a T piece on the filter intake and buying another FX5 strainer and having one each behind the background on either ends. I am also going to use vinyl tubing on the FX5 instead of the ribbed flexi pipe to increase flow.

I am also looking at ordering some different foam for the FX5...more like 30 pore per inch stuff...which will polish the water nicely.

Got the Background siliconed in place today!!! Will wait 24 hours and re do it again. At the moment its only being held in place and isnt a perfect seal. I also need to neaten it up by sticking the sand to it. I also picked up some egg crate. Will cut it to size to fit snug in the front section. I was thinking about securing the UGJ system to the egg crate using zip ties or something similar.

Not much left to do...should be able to start filling this up on the weekend!


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## dinuma (Jul 21, 2011)

consider fitting the egg crate around the UGJ rather than below it. you may have to custom cut the egg crate but i think it is worth it. this will also serve to hold the egg crate and the UGJ in place and you wont even have to anchor them together. they should support each other if the cut out portions of the egg crate are well matched. the PVC tubing wont get compressed either.

one way to diminish the UGJ flow rate is to vary the angle to the substrate. this way some of the flow pushes the detritus and the rest is sort of directed upward into the tank. the fish dont mind a significant flow. the only thing is you have already glued in the UGJ tubes. i left mine unglued till the end since they are rather well fitting and there was no fear of sand entering the tubes at all. you have the option of not gluing the actual jets which are not seen in the pics you have posted so far. also when you squeeze the ends of the jets dont leave too narrow a gap - this will only increase the flow velocity and raise a lot of sand. keep the gap about 3-5 mm at the narrowest points. you'll have to heat the ends of the pipe and press them into shape.

your UGJ design does not have too many sharp bends so there is no fear of too much reduction in the flow velocity or volume especially considering there is not going to be more than a few inches height difference between the powerheads and the UGJ pipes. i would still have gone with the smaller powerheads - i think they should do for the purpose.

fluvals are great filters probably still retaining their level of quality. i just heard from a dealer that the new eheims are showing up a lot of complaints and problems and their new pricing has become competitive to the chinese filters. they probably want to maintain their profit margins and cash in on their old well earned name.

your idea of splitting the out flow into the fluval is good. at most it might slow the flow in each individual out-flow since the total will be the same as a single out flow - since this is dictated by the output of the filter motor. if this causes stagnation of detritus in the out flow tubes then you have to fall back on a single out flow. but considering FX5 this might not be an issue.

looking forward to the end of this project opcorn:


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

I cut the egg crate to size and then sat the UGJ on top and realised it was going to be way too high. I traced it and cut the egg crate out so the UGJ sits inside the crate. I had to zip tie the separate pieces of egg crate together and then zip tie the UGJ to the crate. It works but I can't say I'm overly excited about the result. I'm starting to think I might give the egg crate a miss. Traditionally people that use UGJ don't use egg crate and it just lays nice and flat and snug...

I dunno. Undecided on what to do. Just hasn't turned put like I imagined.


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## dinuma (Jul 21, 2011)

i had not used egg crate in my tank with the UGJ. we dont get egg crate here in India like in the US. it is not really needed but make sure you place the rocks and they are very steady if you dont use the egg crate. cichlids will transform your sandy substrate on a daily basis and when you least expect it a rock should NOT come tumbling across the tank onto the glass!!! some parts of my tank are now bare to the glass by this behavior and its hard to keep the rock steady all the time. 
but now that you have already cut it might as well keep it in place. you could remove it a few weeks down the road if you feel it is hampering the layout or making the rock piles unsteady. it might actually be beneficial coz the fish wont be able to get under the egg crate so you will by default have a level base to rest rocks on.


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

But it I'd also ugly when exposed. But I suppose the UGJ are also. I really hope this UGJ system is worth all the time, effort and money


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## Norm66 (Mar 3, 2005)

I don't think eggcrate is necessary and it's certainly ugly. I'd drop it. A fairlylarge percentage of my rocks sit right on top of the PVC pipe rather than the glass anyway.

And I do think the UGJ will be worth it for you. I know mine is. I've never had a cleaner looking substrate in any tank and I have yet to bother trying to vacuum anything off of it. When I do water changes I just put my syphon in as deep as I want to change and let it go til the syphon breaks.

Can't wait to see this all setup, it's going to be great.


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## dinuma (Jul 21, 2011)

egg crate is not needed at all. it only protects if a rock is dropped directly on the glass and hopefully that never happens!!! UGJ are very useful and i removed mine temporarily so i could tweak the jet outlets. i'll be putting them back soon
no egg crate though ;-)


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## Sand Man (Oct 12, 2006)

Looks awesome. I would love to see some video when you have it all up and running to see how your fish react to the currents.


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

I ditched the egg crate and have no done the final bead of silicone for the background.

I have pretty much ran all of the plumbing behind the wall for the pump.

I am beggining to think the UGJ system is a big FAIL!

I just can't picture how it will work once all the rocks are in. I am going to be limited in where I can put rocks which means I'm locked in to leave them there once they are placed. The rocks will be blocking the jets as well and will limit the effectiveness if it can't get the poo toward the back.

I'm also stuck for what colour/type of rocks to use with this 3D Background. I don't want to use brown rocks because I think it will be too much. I can't think if a nice colour to contrast with it. I have a lot of grey/slate rocks available for free...


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## joey13 (Jul 10, 2011)

Ended up binning the UGJ and re-designed another system. Made it more simple. Is a rectangualar shape which goes around the perimeter of the tank. Now has 9 jets instead of 11. I also siliconed the crushed coral to the pvc to disguise it.

Filled the tank up last night and it is looking real good. I can't believe how clear it is already. It has only been 22 hours and the temp is at 24 degrees. So if in anohter 8 hours, the temp still isnt at 26, I might have to look at pushing the heaters up a couple notches. I will give the water a test and see what the pH is like. I haven't added anything other than SeaChem Prime.

I am curious as to how much the crushed coral will raise the pH.

I'll keep you posted.


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