# Help! Sick and dead Fish



## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

I have an 55gal tank with 3 African cichlids and one pleco. *** had the tank since july with no issues. I had 1 male and 2 females. The largest and most aggressive died this morning. It's a long story so I'll try to make brief. 
The 2 females have been taking turns holding eggs that the male evidently hasn't fertilized. So when the largest female didn't eat this past thursday I wasn't concerned. I actually look forward to her holding eggs because it makes it easier to get the other 2 fish food. On friday, the large on again did not eat. One of the other 2 fish would eat, spit it out, eat it again, spit it back out , then give up. Last night, again the large fish didn't attempt to eat, and the other two would spit out their food. About an hour later, we noticed the large fish at the bottom of the tank, on its side. It stayed like that for awhile, then would swim to the other end of the tank, and roll on its side again. When I went to bed at midnight, it was still hanging in, but this morning was dead. 
I have also noticed that one of the other fish has one cloudy eye. I gave them frozen blood worms today. The one with the cloudy eye didn't bother with it and the other one picked at it and seemed to eat some. They usually consume a cube in about 25 seconds. Eventually the worms were gone and the cloudy eye had a few worms and the other one ate the rest. Here are the details:

Nitrite 
Nitrate <5
Ammonia 0
PH between 8.0 and 8.2
Tank temp 82 degrees
Water changes every 2 weeks (35-40%) with well water. I add Aquarium salt and API stress coat with water changes.

The eat floating pellets every day and blood worms 5-6 times a week.

The remaining fish seem to be acting normal with the exception of the lack of appetite.

An important note is we added the pleco a month ago to get rid of the typical algae. I' wondering if he introduced a parasite into the tank. And if so, I'm surprised it got to the biggest sized, biggest eating, most aggressive fish in the tank and not the smaller weaker fish.

Browsing the net, I've found similar posts(people with fish spitting out the food and not eating) and recommendations have been to treat the tank with metronidazole as they suggested it was a parasite. I went to the pet store and the only product the had with metronidazole was jungle lab Hole-n-head guard. My fish definetly dont have that, so my question is:
1. Should I treat the tank with this?
2. Will it hurt the biological filter? I know I have to remove the carbon filters if I do
3. Will it hurt the pleco?

I did a 40% water change this morning also.


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

Here are some pics. The multicolor one is the one with one cloudy eyes. 
http://www.myimagespace.com/view/1324_eaha0


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

Here's another
http://www.myimagespace.com/view/1322_ifuqs


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

and another. Sorry, not sure how to make actual pics show here.
http://www.myimagespace.com/view/1323_vdpba


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## DrTim's (Jun 8, 2010)

Can't see the pictures because myimagespace wants to register which I do not want to do.

It is hard to say what the problem is - it could be a parasite. Hikari makes a metro product if you call around looking for another one. It is not suppose to hurt the biofilter but anytime you are treating a tank you should be prepared for water changes and test the water for ammonia and nitrite. Remove the carbon during the treatment. Pleco will be ok.

Just to cover all the bases - have you checked you salt level. I know it sounds crazy but I have had some people who add salt to their tanks end up with too much salt in the water. So you might check it or do another water change and not add salt.


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

I tried to post the pics so they are seen here but don't know how. How do I check the salt level?


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)




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## DrTim's (Jun 8, 2010)

here is a link to the photography section of this forum that tells you how to post a picture.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... hp?t=21085

you measure the salt with a hydrometer or refractometer but maybe save a sample for later. Right now change some water (that never hurts) and are the two remaining fish eating?


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

Last night, both were spitting out the food, today the one with the cloudy eye may have had a blood worm or two and he goes after the pellets but never puts them in his mouth, the other one had both worms and about 6 pellets


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)




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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)




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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)




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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Try using photobucket.

What african cichlids do you have? Sometimes bloodworms are not a good idea.

Also three cichlids is likely understocked in a 55G...again depending on the ID of the africans.

If you might have salt overload, do a large (75%? 90%?) water change to get it out. Match parameters carefully.

You have not posted your nitrite result?


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

Sorry, the Nitrite is 0. I'm real careful about only adding the recommended tablespoon per 10 gallons added and on the few occasions I top off the tank I don't add the salt.. I have no idea what type of cichlids I have, that was the main reason for posting the pics. I will try photobucket


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)




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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)




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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They are Malawi mbuna and/or peacock. But I can't see the spots in the pics.


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

The blue one is hard to get a pic of cuz he's shy. The multicolor one is the one with the cloudy eye.


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

what spots are you looking for?


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## Ant-man (Jul 23, 2010)

Your fish, at least the multi color look like OB peacocks, I would advise to stay away from blood worms cause it usually will cause blote very easily. Are your fish looking swelled in the belly at all? heavy breathing?
:-?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Maybe I mixed up posts (looking for spots). 

I'd say the blue one is a mbuna though.

The cloudy eye could be an injury, from other fish or bashing into a rock. That usually heals on it's own with clean water in a couple of days.

The not eating is a symptom of bloat, but it is also a symptom of other diseases. Ant-man is right, to decide if it is bloat you need to check for other symptoms. One more I would add is fish poop. Is it dark like the color of the food? Or white/clear and fine/thready? The latter is a bloat symptom.

If you confirm bloat, metronidazole is a good choice of medication.

Once the fish are better and eating, you may need to work on the stocking of your tank. Bloat is often caused by something stressing the fish. In my experience the stressor has always been aggression. It's hard to witness but a clue is where the fish choose to hide. Lurking under the surface, behind filter intakes or heaters, this is usually a victim fish. They like to swim in a vertical position when hiding behind the equipment.

Since you have only 3 fish in your tank, you may have an aggression issue and adding fish could help. Once the fish recover, why don't you post in the Unidentified forum for ID and then the Malawi forum for stocking suggestions.

Hope all goes well. :thumb:


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

The fish that died did not have a bloated stomach, like I said in the original post. We thought she was holding eggs because she wasn't eating, otherwise she acted and looked normal. Then after 3 days of not eating we found her on her side and within 12 hours she was dead. If it was bloat it had to be from blood worms because she was the aggressive fish. The only other thing I can think of is the pleco we added a month ago brought in a parasite. That also seems to be a possibility with the food spitting and the cloudy eye, although the dead fish had none of those symptoms. 
Neither of the remaining 2 cichlids have bloated bellys and I'll try to check out their poop. Its hard because I'm not home much. The 2 remaining also don't look like they are breathing heavy.
I have already purchased metronidazole, although I am hesitant to use it because it is packaged as a Hole-in-Head treatment. 
What are your thoughts on the use of cloat I read about in the forum. The regular LFS I went to didn't carry it, but I'm thinking of checking out a few others further from home. Either way I think I need to do one or the other ASAP. What ever it is killed my strongest fish fast.


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

I tried some peas cut in half and both fish are eating them. they don't go after them like they are starved like they normally do but they eat them once in a while over time. the multicolored one that was originally spitting its food out just pooped green so he evidently isn't constipated.

I'm thinking of treating them both with metronidazole because they still don't have their normal appetites. I prefer to give it to them in their food.

Does anyone know the dose if I soak the pellets in a dixie cup of water, pellets, and the metro?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I use the dose on the package when I treat with metronidazole the way you describe, but only if I think the fish have bloat.


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## firemedic1169 (Jan 9, 2011)

the dose on the package is one tsp per 5 gal. so should I mix a dixie cup of water with 1 tsp? I'm assuming the fish either died of bloat or a parasite, although she showed no signs of bloat. The surviving fish only only signs were spiting out the food over and over and one has a cloudy eye so I figured its either bloat or a parasite and metro would treat both.

Am I wrong in this assumption?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Metronidazole does not treat all parasites, I think it is for the internal variety.

I don't really know what happened to your fish, but to answer the met question...I use the dosage for the entire tank. I mix in in a dixie cup with pellets for the whole tank and a small amount of water. Let it absorb a little and dump food, water, met and all in the tank.

The ones that are eating ingest with the food. The rest still get the benefit of the medication in the tank.


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