# Hamburg Mattenfilter Question



## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm planning another tank build and wanting to make it as low maintenance as possible. An automatic water changer is part of the plan. I'm also wanting to make the filtration as easy to manage as possible. Easy to set up and easy to maintain. I currently have an HMF on a 20 long and love it's simplicity. The tank I'm planning will be 84"x24"x20" (LxWxH). Anybody know of an HMF being used on a larger tank like the one I'm planning? Most people seem to use them just on small tanks as I already am. Any things to be aware of?

Thanks.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

The largest HMF I've used is on a 40B that was 18"W x 15"H and was set up on the short end of the tank and removing it for cleaning is a bit of a challenge. I usually drain the tank to 25% full to remove it but still get a lot of fine dirt into the tank that requires some siphoning to remove the dirt or a couple days with a HOB or spare canister filter to speed up fines removal.

Were you thinking of doing a short end HMF install at the end(s) of the tank, the corner type and installing glass strips that retain the HMF in position or installing them similar to internal overflow boxes on the back of the tank? For a tank that long, I don't think that just one HMF configuration would provide enough water circulation and possibly mechanical filtration.

Would you be using air lifts or power-heads to provide water flow?

I'm not sure if you would need the 3" thick HMF if you were doing the short end install due to the 24"W x 20"H of the Poret since it would be a bit stiffer due to the span. Hope this makes sense!

What are you planning for stocking fish?


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## CeeJay (Aug 16, 2016)

I'll tell you what I did for water changes. I install a 1/4" water line to my sump that I run thru a whole hose filter to a float vale in my sump. I then drill the sump and installed a bulk head with a strainer. For me it matter of flipping vale to change water. I got it set at about 20 gallon and hour so my tank is 180 gallon so I leave the vale on for 3 hours just about 30% water change. I do that twice week and on Sundays I leave it on for 8 hours that's almost 100% change. The vale could be control with timer if I wanted to automatized it even more.

Just wonder why you want the hamburg matten filter? On larger tanks I love the sumps, I go a month without touching it and the cost of maintaining it is really cheap. I look up hamburg matten filter and it looks like it to would be easy to maintain and it cost to build would be cheap but I wonder if it will be able to take the bio-loads we put are tank under.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Deeda said:


> The largest HMF I've used is on a 40B that was 18"W x 15"H and was set up on the short end of the tank and removing it for cleaning is a bit of a challenge. I usually drain the tank to 25% full to remove it but still get a lot of fine dirt into the tank that requires some siphoning to remove the dirt or a couple days with a HOB or spare canister filter to speed up fines removal.


Thanks for your response, Dee. I found a reference to an HMF being used on a 600G tank at this link but I can't find any information about the tank. There's also a well known CA cichlid keeper, Lee Nuttall, who used to be on this site, and I believe he uses something like an HMF on a monster tank. I wish I could find more info. Google has failed me so far.



> Were you thinking of doing a short end HMF install at the end(s) of the tank, the corner type and installing glass strips that retain the HMF in position or installing them similar to internal overflow boxes on the back of the tank? For a tank that long, I don't think that just one HMF configuration would provide enough water circulation and possibly mechanical filtration.


I was thinking of putting it on the end but I'm still in the research phase to figure out if it's feasible. I'm not attached to any approach just yet.



> Would you be using air lifts or power-heads to provide water flow?


I was thinking air lifts. I know the Poret foam seller (ST) has a Mattenfilter for a 180G with four air lifts. I was thinking I'd go with something along those lines.



> I'm not sure if you would need the 3" thick HMF if you were doing the short end install due to the 24"W x 20"H of the Poret since it would be a bit stiffer due to the span. Hope this makes sense!


The one I've mentioned above for the 180G is 4". Wouldn't it need to be at least that thick to maintain stiffness over a larger span?



> What are you planning for stocking fish?


I have a small group of uaru and a severum that are outgrowing the 120G their currently in. The bigger tank would be a new home for them, possibly with some new SA tankmates added.

The 120G is filtered by an Eheim 2262 and a 2260. They do an excellent job. I've been using canisters as long as I've been in the hobby but I don't enjoy cleaning them. Right now three of my tanks have canister filters and one has an HMF. I really like how easy the HMF is to care for but it is in a lightly stocked bare bottom tank and I've never had to clean it. Your description of the experience makes me take pause around what it would be like to clean it in a more heavily stocked tank.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

CeeJay said:


> I'll tell you what I did for water changes. I install a 1/4" water line to my sump that I run thru a whole hose filter to a float vale in my sump. I then drill the sump and installed a bulk head with a strainer. For me it matter of flipping vale to change water. I got it set at about 20 gallon and hour so my tank is 180 gallon so I leave the vale on for 3 hours just about 30% water change. I do that twice week and on Sundays I leave it on for 8 hours that's almost 100% change. The vale could be control with timer if I wanted to automatized it even more.


Thanks for your response, CeeJay. That sounds like an interesting set up. Any chance you could post a photo?

The tank I'm planning will be made of acrylic (I'm going to build it myself) and I plan on setting up a bulkhead with a ball valve 2/3 of the way down. It'll have a hose running to the floor drain to make water changes very easy. However, I want to minimize the need to do them by also setting up an automatic water changer.



> Just wonder why you want the hamburg matten filter? On larger tanks I love the sumps, I go a month without touching it and the cost of maintaining it is really cheap. I look up hamburg matten filter and it looks like it to would be easy to maintain and it cost to build would be cheap but I wonder if it will be able to take the bio-loads we put are tank under.


The cost of setting up the sump is the deterrent. I haven't ruled it out yet though.

In part this next tank is an opportunity to experiment.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Zimmy, I wasn't sure on the Poret thickness for wider/taller tanks but 4" sounds right.

You might want to check his youtube site https://www.youtube.com/user/lee1973n?app=desktop to see if he mentions it, I only briefly glanced through it.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Thanks Dee. I've watched many of those videos and recommend them to anyone looking for inspiration on how to set up a CA biotope tank.

I just found the information on his Facebook page (the Youtube page has the link) and also in an interview he did for Practical Fishkeeping. Essentially he has Poret foam sheets behind an aquarium background. The water flows through the sponges and is returned to the front of the tank. Seems like the same principle as the HMF. He's using it in a 300G tank and says maintenance is minimal. This is definitely an approach I'd consider. It would mean going with an aquarium background - something I haven't tried yet. I don't like the look of most DIY backgrounds so buying one would be a significant added cost.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Glad you were able to find at least some reference to Lee's use of the HMF.

I have seen some fantastic commercial made backgrounds and agree that the cost is a big factor and one I have not chosen myself.

Another option would be to use the HMF across the back side of the tank, using the standard 2" thick product and breaking it up into multiple sections using DIY created U-shaped retainer sections. This method would create a uniform background look and also allow staggered cleaning of the individual sections as needed or to reduce the potential of a mini-cycle by cleaning all media at the same time. The only difficulty could be the design of the tank top and access to the media due to the usual wide border of the top.

However, if you will be building your acrylic tank, you may want to consider adding a full tank length/height secondary chamber behind the main tank that would house the filter media rather then inside the main tank or adding these chambers to each end of the tank instead. The usual spacing suggestion for the HMF installation is to leave at least a 1" space for the air lift (depending on diameter) + room for heater(s) if so desired so this would add between 3" and up to 4" including the Poret. I have no experience with this type of set up and can't provide any links to such a build.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Deeda said:


> However, if you will be building your acrylic tank, you may want to consider adding a full tank length/height secondary chamber behind the main tank that would house the filter media rather then inside the main tank or adding these chambers to each end of the tank instead. The usual spacing suggestion for the HMF installation is to leave at least a 1" space for the air lift (depending on diameter) + room for heater(s) if so desired so this would add between 3" and up to 4" including the Poret. I have no experience with this type of set up and can't provide any links to such a build.


Thanks Dee. Are you thinking of something like this except having it run along the back of the tank? I'm intrigued by this idea.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I wasn't thinking of that particular set up as it still uses the media in a horizontal configuration.

What I am picturing is how the HMF is usually installed vertically *inside* a tank which takes up space and instead building a chamber on the rear or sides of the tank that mimics that style. The problem is figuring how to get the water into the chamber. The design would be similar to a HOB sump but would actually be part of the tank.

Maybe a better way to describe it is to build the tank 27" or 28" wide but only make the top piece of the tank 24" wide to allow you to install and remove the HMF filter. You could make a separate lid for the filter chamber.

My idea may not be the best use of materials or even easy to understand, just sort of brainstorming here. :roll:

I found some pics online to describe what I can't seem to articulate Here. While the design I linked to is meant as an overflow configuration, if you replaced the overflow pipes with the HMF and cuts multiple slots in the false wall, it might work. The last couple pics show how the compartment has a separate lid and easy access to parts for servicing.

Honestly, for me the easiest filter set up would be to just migrate your Eheim filters over to the new tank.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

I think we may be thinking the same thing, Dee. In the video I linked he's created the false wall on the end. My interpretation of what you said is that it could be along the back of the tank. It would be 78" long (if that's the length I make the tank) so I could fit a lot of filter media back there. It would be like having a narrow sump in the tank more than an HMF. I like the idea. I also like the idea of the separate lid but I'd need to brace the acrylic around the top so that would be an issue.

I haven't ruled out moving the Eheim filters either. The problem I have with the current arrangement is that they're under the stairs behind the tank so it's not easy getting access to them. The new tank I'm planning will be an in the wall tank with the tank's back full available to me in another room. I don't even have to put the filters under the tank so they'd be really easy to access.

More to think about...


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

More to think about....

What about an over-the-tank-filter since the tank will be in-wall with access behind it? You could still use the HMF design but it would require an in-tank water pump or two to pump the water into the filter.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Deeda said:


> What about an over-the-tank-filter since the tank will be in-wall with access behind it? You could still use the HMF design but it would require an in-tank water pump or two to pump the water into the filter.


What would be the benefit of an over-the-tank filter?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

It would be just like an under the tank sump but you don't have to crawl on the floor or under the stand to clean it and it should not overflow in a power outage or pump failure scenario. I'm not saying that all below tank sumps overflow, it's just I read a lot of worries especially if they aren't designed properly.

I've read they are mostly popular in Asia and can be bought in that region regularly. Most of the ones I read about in the U.S.A are DIY, usually with plastic totes.

I was just throwing some additional ideas out there since you posted "More to think about...".


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Deeda said:


> It would be just like an under the tank sump but you don't have to crawl on the floor or under the stand to clean it and it should not overflow in a power outage or pump failure scenario.


Thanks Dee. Both the ease of use and the reduced risk of overflow are great selling points.


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