# Penguin 350 impeller question



## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Have any of you guys had success pulling the bushings off the impeller shaft? I cleaned out my filters today and filled them up and now they are VERY VERY noisy. The loudest I have ever heard. I had to shut the door in the back bedroom because they are so loud.

I was going to remove the shaft and use vaseline to grease up the shaft and magnet but I can't get the bushings off and I am afraid I am going to break it.

I was going to gran some needle nose pliers but thought I would ask first.


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## FishyPirate (Mar 1, 2007)

I've never taken the impeller apart on mine, just replaced. Are there lines around the magnet? Rings that are worn in a little? Most of the time the noise you hear after cleaning a filter with a worn out impeller is the impeller rattling around in its housing since the debris around it was cleaned out giving it free movement. I know how noisy they can be, can hear them in other rooms running. I'd just replace it if it looks worn.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

FishyPirate said:


> I've never taken the impeller apart on mine, just replaced. Are there lines around the magnet? Rings that are worn in a little? Most of the time the noise you hear after cleaning a filter with a worn out impeller is the impeller rattling around in its housing since the debris around it was cleaned out giving it free movement. I know how noisy they can be, can hear them in other rooms running. I'd just replace it if it looks worn.


Yeah...it looks a tad bit worn where I can see but since I can't remove the bushings I can't see the entire shaft. I think, kind of like you said, that the cleaning removed the built up slime on the impeller shaft that was acting as a lubricant. Only problem is I can't get to the shaft to add vaseline because the bushings won't come off. The vaseline would act as a lubricant since the slime is now gone. I should have just left it alone.

I don't want to but two new impellers as they are around $16 each. The cheapest I could find was 15 and some change. This is so frustrating. I should have spent the money when I had it on a canister filter instead of these penguins. I probably should have bought a aquaclear 110 over the penguins. Oh well....you know what they say about hindsight and all.......


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I think the impellers on Penguin and Emperor are much the same so I can tell you a bit about what I found on Emperor. Two got very noisy and had to be fixed or replaced. I was able to see the shaft was worn so it was no big risk if I broke them while getting them apart. I used long nose pliers to remove the rubber outer cover. From there I used a very long narrow longnose to grip the shaft itself and turned/twisted the inner plastic stub. It was on pretty tight but did turn and come off. Danger was in mashing or distorting the plastic too much to reuse but not a problem once I got them apart. The metal of the shaft is totally ruined. It has tapered spots as well as being deformed so that it has flat spots rather than being round for the total length. 
Touchy to get apart but interesting to see. Is it worth taking apart if the shaft is bad? Not so sure it is!


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

PfunMo said:


> I think the impellers on Penguin and Emperor are much the same so I can tell you a bit about what I found on Emperor. Two got very noisy and had to be fixed or replaced. I was able to see the shaft was worn so it was no big risk if I broke them while getting them apart. I used long nose pliers to remove the rubber outer cover. From there I used a very long narrow longnose to grip the shaft itself and turned/twisted the inner plastic stub. It was on pretty tight but did turn and come off. Danger was in mashing or distorting the plastic too much to reuse but not a problem once I got them apart. The metal of the shaft is totally ruined. It has tapered spots as well as being deformed so that it has flat spots rather than being round for the total length.
> Touchy to get apart but interesting to see. Is it worth taking apart if the shaft is bad? Not so sure it is!


Thanks....I went ahead and ordered one new impeller as the other one became less noisy through the night. Once the new one gets here I am going to try to remove the bushings as you did and see if I am able to lube it with vasoline and see if I can get the bushings to fit back on the shaft.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

Sometimes they can make quite a noise even when the impeller looks fine. I think it has to do with a 'knocking' from the vibrations of the motor, traveling up to the intake tube. I have found that if you pull up on the intake tube slightly, about a quarter inch, while it is still running, and let it slide back down on it's own, and not push it down tight, it may stop the noise. Sometimes mine just needs adjustment of the intake tube to run quietly. It's can range from really quiet, with just the soothing sound of water, to really noisy, rattling like crazy. The poor fish must really get stressed when it does that. I know I do.

With some slight modification, I think they could stop that problem with these filters.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

One thing that I kick myself for doing led to my problems. My canopies are tight making it really hard to pull the can off the back of the tank without a major hassle. That has led me to not do a really good job of cleaning inside the can itself. I ducked the job by telling myself that the intake was high enough not to pick up sand. WRONG! I find I have fish that love to spit sand and a tub full wound up in the bottom of the filter can. After I did finally pull them off and dump them I found at least a 1/4 inch of sand that had all gone through the impeller and ground the shaft and magnet. I'm thinking all HOB might be better off with a sponge pre-filter to help keep sand out.

I also could quiet my impellers somewhat by jiggling around. I think what is happening is there is wear between the magnet and shaft, maybe out of sight until you take it apart to see. I'm guessing what I was doing was shifting the shaft and magnet contact to a slightly different spot which was not worn so much. At some point, I ran out of good round shaft to move to and could not quiet it.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

vann59 said:


> Sometimes they can make quite a noise even when the impeller looks fine. I think it has to do with a 'knocking' from the vibrations of the motor, traveling up to the intake tube. I have found that if you pull up on the intake tube slightly, about a quarter inch, while it is still running, and let it slide back down on it's own, and not push it down tight, it may stop the noise. Sometimes mine just needs adjustment of the intake tube to run quietly. It's can range from really quiet, with just the soothing sound of water, to really noisy, rattling like crazy. The poor fish must really get stressed when it does that. I know I do.
> 
> With some slight modification, I think they could stop that problem with these filters.


That is exactly what I did on the one making the most noise. I pulled up on the entire impeller housing and let the magnet on the impeller pull the housing down using the magnetic force of the magnet and the motor. I did not push down at all on the housing. It did quiet down quite a bit but still makes a bit of noise. I am going to go ahead and replace the impeller when the new one gets here.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

PfunMo said:


> One thing that I kick myself for doing led to my problems. My canopies are tight making it really hard to pull the can off the back of the tank without a major hassle. That has led me to not do a really good job of cleaning inside the can itself. I ducked the job by telling myself that the intake was high enough not to pick up sand. WRONG! I find I have fish that love to spit sand and a tub full wound up in the bottom of the filter can. After I did finally pull them off and dump them I found at least a 1/4 inch of sand that had all gone through the impeller and ground the shaft and magnet. I'm thinking all HOB might be better off with a sponge pre-filter to help keep sand out.
> 
> I also could quiet my impellers somewhat by jiggling around. I think what is happening is there is wear between the magnet and shaft, maybe out of sight until you take it apart to see. I'm guessing what I was doing was shifting the shaft and magnet contact to a slightly different spot which was not worn so much. At some point, I ran out of good round shaft to move to and could not quiet it.


Yep...I think sand has a bit to do with my problems. I saw a fish digging and spitting earlier and it was going everywhere. You would think marineland would start sending out cheap pre-intake sponges as you suggested but then again if the impellers all worked for longer they would not sell as many. Have you guys seen the price of these things? One impeller is literally HALF the price of a new filter. That is ridiculous.

I am buying aquaclear next time. I wish I had a couple hundred to buy a new canister filter.


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## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

I just swapped out a 350 for an AC 110. That 350 annoyed me to no end. It would be quiet for a couple of months and then get loud. 2 impellers later, and the same problem continued. It's a horrible design IMO, very difficult to keep debris out of the area where the impeller sits.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I don't think we will find any one company has all the right answers. In fact, we may be part of the problem when we choose to keep the cichlids. Would we have fish spitting sand around if we were keeping wimpy fish like *******? Part of the interest of cichlids is the way they work so I guess we kind of have to put up with a bit more trouble.

Guppies never tried to eat the thermometer!


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> Yep...I think sand has a bit to do with my problems. I saw a fish digging and spitting earlier and it was going everywhere. You would think marineland would start sending out cheap pre-intake sponges as you suggested but then again if the impellers all worked for longer they would not sell as many. Have you guys seen the price of these things? One impeller is literally HALF the price of a new filter. That is ridiculous.
> 
> I am buying aquaclear next time. I wish I had a couple hundred to buy a new canister filter.


Do you have play sand or PFS? I have play sand, and if I had it to do again I would use the PFS. Play sand is ideal for fish to play with, because it is so fine and they can sift it like crazy, but it flies up easier. So the PFS is probably the best compromise, since the larger grains won't get into the impeller shaft as easily.

Now about a solution to the sand and impeller wear. If you cover the intake vents with felt, it will stop sand from coming in, and will also polish your water. You will have to clean and change them often because it filters really well. Choose a color that suits you. If you have a black background, then a black felt won't show up so much. If you want to see if it gets dirty, you could get white. It comes in a lot of colors at fabric stores and is very cheap. You may even find small pieces for under a dollar.

If you haven't already shortened the intake tube, I suggest you do. I have done that, and the water is very clear with no problems. That alone reduces sand intake a lot.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

vann59 said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > Yep...I think sand has a bit to do with my problems. I saw a fish digging and spitting earlier and it was going everywhere. You would think marineland would start sending out cheap pre-intake sponges as you suggested but then again if the impellers all worked for longer they would not sell as many. Have you guys seen the price of these things? One impeller is literally HALF the price of a new filter. That is ridiculous.
> ...


I have fine marine sand under my crushed coral and they dig it out. I should have never bought this sand


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't think layering sand makes much difference. Cichlids are going to dig and the sand will mix and stir up anyway.

Live and learn...


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

OK...did a large water change tonight, as usual every 4 days, and I filled up the penguins with water before turning them on as usual. Well..they began to grind really loud again. Since my new impellers are not here yet I went ahead and added vasoline to the impeller magnet, the bushing and the shaft I could see(or get to). I installed the impeller and it is just about as quiet as the day I bought them. I guess the vasoline really helps.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> OK...did a large water change tonight, as usual every 4 days, and I filled up the penguins with water before turning them on as usual. Well..they began to grind really loud again. Since my new impellers are not here yet I went ahead and added vasoline to the impeller magnet, the bushing and the shaft I could see(or get to). I installed the impeller and it is just about as quiet as the day I bought them. I guess the vasoline really helps.


Vaseline is a petroleum gel, and I'm not sure if that's really the best thing to use. There are teflon gel lubricants that have the same properties as vaseline without any petroleum content, and they are totally non toxic, and made for use in water I would suggest getting some of that for next time.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

vann59 said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > OK...did a large water change tonight, as usual every 4 days, and I filled up the penguins with water before turning them on as usual. Well..they began to grind really loud again. Since my new impellers are not here yet I went ahead and added vasoline to the impeller magnet, the bushing and the shaft I could see(or get to). I installed the impeller and it is just about as quiet as the day I bought them. I guess the vasoline really helps.
> ...


Do you know of as brand specifically so I can look into it?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

A thin, very light coating of regular Vaseline won't hurt anything. Some filter manufacturers recommend it as a lubricant on seals and o-rings. I've been using it for 8 years and haven't had any problems.

If you are still uncomfortable using Vaseline, buy some potable (drinking water safe) grease used for lubing faucet o-rings. Available at any hardware or home improvement store, different brands depending on area of the country.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Deeda said:


> A thin, very light coating of regular Vaseline won't hurt anything. Some filter manufacturers recommend it as a lubricant on seals and o-rings. I've been using it for 8 years and haven't had any problems.
> 
> If you are still uncomfortable using Vaseline, buy some potable (drinking water safe) grease used for lubing faucet o-rings. Available at any hardware or home improvement store, different brands depending on area of the country.


I was told it was safe and that is why I used it. Glad to hear it is ok...

However...I will be replacing these filters as soon as I get some funds. These filters are driving me crazy. Too noisy.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> A thin, very light coating of regular Vaseline won't hurt anything. Some filter manufacturers recommend it as a lubricant on seals and o-rings. I've been using it for 8 years and haven't had any problems.


Agreed, vaseline is perfectly fine to use. Just don't shovel it in.


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