# Confused about a cookie cutter setup in library for tangs



## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

I am looking at the cookie cutter setups in the library for 55 gallon tanks and am trying to make sense of the one listed right before the tang sand sifters. This one is listed as follows:

â€¢ Cyprichromis leptosoma - 12 (non-jumbos)
â€¢ Altolamprologus calvus or compressiceps
â€¢ Neolamprologus buescheri - 12
â€¢ Shell dweller pair of choice -
'Lamprologus' (Shellies) brevis,
multifasciatus (group), meleagris,
ornatipinnis, ocellatus, speciosus,
similis (group), Neolamprologus signatus

My questions follow:
1. Does this mean that in the 55 gallon you can have 12 leptosoma and 12 buescheri, let alone the other fish?
2. how many calvus or comps?
3. if i want multis or similis so that i can have a group rather than just a pair, how many shell-dwellers can i have?

I would love to have a dozen letposoma flying across the top, a large group of multis or simils on the bottom and then many calvus and buescheri in the middle, but i want to make sure this is a tank that, as far as compatibility goes, will likely succeed.

thanks in advance.


----------



## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Seems clear the Neolamprologus buescheri - 12 is a typo and should be a pair?
A. calvus or comps should be a pair (give the female a cave or plant pot the larger male can not get into) with other fish too.

Well groups of 5-8 of these group shellys do well but not sure they would fit in these numbers they might take up more space than just a pair of the others.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I agree, and a lot of Tangs are one pair to a tank. So unless you are buying "married" pairs who have already produced fry together, you might start with:
12 cyps
6 calvus
6 buescheri
6 multis

The calvus and buescheri will form pairs and drive the remaining 4 fish from the tank, so you would expect end up with:
12 cyps
2 calvus
2 buescheri
6 multis

Sometimes the calvus will tolerate more than one female, sometimes not. I don't know much about buescheri. The multis will try to fill the tank with fry, but the calvus and others will eat them.


----------



## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

thanks for the replies.

I have a small tank (24" x 12" x 12") right now with 5 calvus. I have no idea how to tell which is male and which is female, but I have not seen any issues. I have only had them for about 4 months now and they range from approx. 1" to 2.25"

It sounds like for the 55G I would have

12 cyps (I'd like cyp leptosoma. can i get various kinds or must they all be the same kind of leptosoma?)
6 to 8 multies/similis
and one other tang species could work

I think ideally with the 3rd group I'd be looking for an active and attractive fish that, at full size, is decently sized (4" to 6") and roams the middle of the tank. Ideally I would like a fish that, at least usually, does not require pairing it down. So I can just put 2-6 in the tank and be done. Any thoughts on that?


----------



## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Cyps if you mix then destroy the young or go all male, some mixes work fine.
Ophthalmotilapia ventralis group? as your mid water fish?

This can work okish, I have 7 crowded into a 36"x12"x15"
Though mine only reach 4" in such a small tank.
A single comp or calvus can be less of a problem than a pair and still help keep multi fry numbers down.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Wow, 24Tropheus, you have success with some unusual mixes and tank sizes. :thumb:

I wanted O.Ventralis for my 72" tank but was told they would need the bottom to themselves and just to keep them with the cyps. So I opted not to add them.


----------



## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

DJRansome said:


> Wow, 24Tropheus, you have success with some unusual mixes and tank sizes. :thumb:


Just an observation: Housing in Europe/Asia is much smaller, for people and fish. :wink: Spoiled American fish! :lol:


----------



## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Funny I always think the opposite with Tropheus :wink: . I do not know why Opthals are put in the same kind of group. I find em far easier and less space and number requiring.


----------



## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

So are people saying they do, or do not, think a half dozen Ophthalmotilapia ventralis group will work with:

12 cyps lept. (sounds like i need to stick to one kind)
1 calvus (to keep the fry of the similis/multies in check)
6-8 multies/similis

in a 55G?

Also, a few other questions
1. which locales of opht. ventr. has particularly attractive colors, is reasonably easy to obtain, and is not terribly demanding?
2. any other suggestions for a group fish that's not too demanding instead of opht. ventralis?
3. which cyp. leptosoma has particularly attractive colors and is reasonably easy to obtain?

Thanks for all your help.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I vote no, my information came from Longstocking regarding Ventralis in a 72" tank.


----------



## thinking_fish (Aug 13, 2007)

best to look for local fish clubs to obtain cyps and other school tangs so retail is way over priced.


----------



## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Enjoying cichlids recommends all Cyps, all Featherfins and all Tropheus are kept in a min tank length of 150cm, so by that none are suitable for your tank 48" aprox 120cm long tank.
Personally I would say both the smaller Cyps and the smaller Opthalmotilapia ventralis are fine in four foot tanks but would not keep Tropheus in one and give them at least 150cm and would give Cyathopharynx at least 200cm of length. If you read the site you will find lots of folk have success with Tropheus in 48" long tanks. Rules huh, I guess the fish do not read the books or the site. :wink:

Funny thing about my group of 7 ventralis. They fought like mad in a 7 foot x2 foot x2 foot.
Fought a lot in a 64"x15"x18"
but peacefully breed in the tiny 36". Go figure.

Easiest to get here by far is the Cyprochromis leptosoma http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1467 or http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1468
both very nice Cyps suitable for the smaller tank.

Not realy sure about a peaceful group mid water fish to replace the Opthals um maybe Paracyps (you are looking for peacefull mouthbrooders I guess as they tend to be more group and less territorial) but they can be a bit secretive.
Maybe some Ectodus or other more mid water sandsifter would do OK with lots of open sand.


----------



## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

thanks all.

24tropheus, no plans on tropheus in this tank. that's for another day 

thanks for the suggestions on the cyps. those look like great choices. i recall reading that you can actually have many more males than females for cyps, which is important to me to have a real burst of color. is that true? could it be s/t like 8M:4F or 9M:3F?

I don't mind if the fish occupying the middle of the tank are a bit larger than the cyps or similis/multies (e.g. 5-6") as the contrast in size could be neat. so as long as the fish are not so territorial as to likely cause stress to the cyps or shell-dwellers then a trio (e.g. dom. male, subdom. male and female) or something like that, would be fine too.

i'm not against mixing lakes either. so perhaps a few peacocks would work well in this tank? if the cyps are blue and yellow and the shell-dwellers are gray, perhaps 3-4 male peacocks, like a ruby red, a flametail ngara, a sunshine peacock, and a another colorful one with bright colors that are not yellow or blue would be good?

*I guess if that works I'd be looking at the following stock list for the standard 55G:

1. 12 cyps (one of the two species 24tropheus suggested) with 8M:4F
2. 6-8 multies or similis
3. 3-4 male peacocks
4. 1 calvus (to control the number of fry)

thoughts?*


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

cholile, you are asking all the same questions I asked. I asked about peacocks, even just with calvus and was advised not to do it. This time it was Fogelhund.

Also cyps can be aggressive...I'd probably try for 50/50 and see how they do.


----------



## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

can you provide me the link to the thread where you asked these questions? i'd love to read through it.

and in case you don't find the link, what's the reason not to put peacocks and calvus together? remember, i just want 1 single calvus to control the fry that the multies produce.

and what about multies/similis or other shell-dwellers with peacocks? that's really the main focus of what i want. that combination and cyps leptosoma.

there are lots of cyps, but the article i read on cichlid forum did not describe cyp. leptosoma as aggressive and it said more males than females is generally a good thing.

of course there can be other opinions, but i'd love to hear the specifics of why someone is against it.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Unfortunately it was a bunch of separate questions long ago. The question was did I want my calvus to thrive or just survive, so I stopped asking questions. I think he tried it and they stopped breeding.

You could just search on posts in Tang forum by Fogelhund with keyword peacock...you may be able to find my post and replies to others as well with the same question.

All these things have been done with success but they've also been done without success, I'm not much of a risk taker and prefer the "thrive" end of the continuum.

The cyp males can be competitive with each other. Mine are not even mature (colored) and I see the occasional fin nip in a 72" tank. I also found one on the floor even though the tank was 99% covered shortly after I bought them, so you know they were chasing. Since they are expensive and most people buy unsexed juvies, maybe you will do the same and not need to worry about the ratio until you see how many of each you have in a couple of months.


----------

