# My fish has cloudy eye and after treatment is not doing well



## c_low324 (Apr 17, 2016)

Hello there,

I have had my turquoise severum for about 5 years in a 55 gallon tank. I also have a 3 year old pleco in the same tank, and no other fish. I have lived in the same apartment for 2 years so there have been no major stresses or changes in habitat for my fish. Recently I noticed my severums left eye has a grey cloudy bubble in his eye. His behavior was normal, he was eating, enjoying his treats (peas), and swimming around. I went to a specialty fish store and told them my issue. The worker suggested I either use Iodine drops directly to his eye, or antibiotics, but warned that the antibiotics may make things worse because they can kill all the good bacteria in the tank. So, I decided to go with the Iodine he suggested, Kent Lugol's Solution. I used my net to scoop my severum out of the tank just a bit so I could get a drop of the solution right on his eye, as directed. I did that at 9am yesterday, current time today is 6pm, and ever since I have done that, my severum has been at the bottom of the tank, not interested in eating, has shallow breathing, and he is still acting this way. I also noticed that his left fin, which is on the same side as his bad eye, wasn't moving. Now it moves a little, but not as much as his other fin. I took a water sample to the pet store to have them test it. The results were Nitrate: 160, Nitrite: 0, Hardness: 300, Alkalinity: 120, and PH: 8.4. I cleaned my tank a few days ago and the water tests have been pretty consistent. I was concern about the PH levels, but the guy at the pet store said that Arizona typically has high PH in the tap water and that cichlids like a higher PH. He said that my fish is probably just stressed from the drops and to give him time because if I put anything else in the water, it might make him worse. I even called back a few hours later to tell him my fish was still acting abnormal, and they just said the same thing. My fish has been fine the entire time I have had him and I have moved him a few times to different apartments, even to a different state and it never took him this long to recover from the stress. I even contacted a vet that deals with fish and all they said was to bring him by, but I don't want to stress him out even more by transporting him. I love him very much, and I am very worried about him. Any information and help will be greatly appreciated! Thank you so much!


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## Tropheus_Man_77 (Apr 14, 2016)

Usually cloudy eyes are a response to stress. If your Nitrates are 160 than that is bad. Clean out your substrate. You may have to do %20 water change. Personally, I don't use substrate in my tanks. Only with show tanks I use it. And when I do, it will be about 1 1/2 inches max. Too much substrate can form bad gasses from fish waste. Than these will leak out.

Also, you talked about feeding your cichlid peas. I don't know if I would do that because they might expand in his stomach and bloat him. If you give him too much peas, he MIT now get the protein he needs. He needs about 30%-45% protein in his meals. That might be another reason he is sick.

Most of all though, 160 nitrates is super high. It should not be even close to that. He is a big fish so he is strong, but the nitrates still need to lower. -Hope that helped, and that your cichlid feels better


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I agree that your nitrate level at 160ppm is extremely high so I suggest doing daily 25% water changes until your nitrate is below 20ppm. Don't do a larger water change as this can be harmful to your fish!!!

Do you know what the nitrate level of your tap water is, if so, please post it here.

I am moving this topic to the Illness forum for additional advice.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

SA cichlids like low PH not high PH, generally.

Peas are actually extremely high in protein.

Your iodine probably raised the PH in the tank, making the extremely high nitrates much more lethal. And even very high ph tap water goes down over time in aquariums unless something is happening to raise it. And 8.4 is pushing the bounds of being dangerous to drink so it can't possibly be your municipal tap water doing that.

A lot of SA cichlids while they otherwise do fine in dirty water, get lots of slime and then the slime covers their eyes and creates an infection and blinds them. Especially common in oscars and other big eaters - like your guy. Since you have incredibly dirty water this is probably what happened. If it is like a covering that is what it is. I used to pick the fish up and just run them under the sink until it kind of sloughs off.

You need to change out that water completely and do it immediately because that high ph + high nitrates will kill your fish as you are finding out, and it is the only way to clear up the eye. Do 100% water change (not all at once obviously, but do several water changes in a row) and put in your dechlorinator and don't give any food for a few days. Then make sure you do water changes every week, fish like that need them, and most people have them in too small of a tank which makes it even worse.


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## Mr Tobias (Oct 8, 2014)

Deeda - Why is a water change larger than 25% harmful? Do you mean just in this situation or always? It seems many people routinely do 30, 40 or even 50% weekly changes. Is this not good?


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## Wis-Waterboy (Jul 18, 2013)

Fish Jerk said:


> You need to change out that water completely and do it immediately because that high ph + high nitrates will kill your fish as you are finding out, and it is the only way to clear up the eye. Do 100% water change (not all at once obviously, but do several water changes in a row) and put in your dechlorinator and don't give any food for a few days. Then make sure you do water changes every week, fish like that need them, and most people have them in too small of a tank which makes it even worse.


No definitely don't do a 100% water change, you will kill your fish. Large rapid changes in nitrate levels are bad for fish. A change from 160 ppm to 0-10 ppm would be just as bad as a change from 0-10 ppm to 160 ppm. Do a 50% water change to get down to 80 ppm nitrate. Two days later do another 50% to get down to 40 ppm . Two days later, another 50% to get to 20, and two days later another to get to 10. You could probably do less at a time (25%) but it would take longer. After you are at 10 ppm nitrate, watch how long it takes for the nitrate to get back up to 20 ppm and that should be the frequency of your 50% water changes.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Mr Tobias said:


> Deeda - Why is a water change larger than 25% harmful? Do you mean just in this situation or always? It seems many people routinely do 30, 40 or even 50% weekly changes. Is this not good?


Yes I mean just in this particular situation because the OP's nitrate level is so high.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Wis-Waterboy said:


> Fish Jerk said:
> 
> 
> > You need to change out that water completely and do it immediately because that high ph + high nitrates will kill your fish as you are finding out, and it is the only way to clear up the eye. Do 100% water change (not all at once obviously, but do several water changes in a row) and put in your dechlorinator and don't give any food for a few days. Then make sure you do water changes every week, fish like that need them, and most people have them in too small of a tank which makes it even worse.
> ...


That's completely wrong. I have done it many times with great success and my fish outlive their expectancies by huge amounts. It's very helpful when there is disease or if tank cycle breaks down, or situation like this where tank is completely neglected.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Fish Jerk said:


> Wis-Waterboy said:
> 
> 
> > Fish Jerk said:
> ...


You have it backwards. Doing a partial in a really dirty tank raises the ph and can make the fish die from the contaminants that are left over.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

But the nitrates are not the issue causing the eye problems, they are only causing immediate problems because of raised ph. The eye issue is due to all the slime in the water from the fish itself, which has to be drained out asap or the eye will be lost. Otherwise it rots out the eye and causes blindness very quickly.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Not sure if I made it clear but don't actually take the fish out, and don't wash the gravel. That is a recipe for problems, though with big tough cichlids like severum and oscars I have picked them up off the floor when they were dry and unmoving after jumping out and plopped them in the tank and had them recover a couple times. They are not going to die of 'shock' like a fancy goldfish might (or more likely because you took them out and suffocated them in a small container while you did the change, then threw them into freezing water).

Drain 90% of the water, or just enough so it still covers them. Refill. Do it again. Put in your dechlorinator and turn the heater back on. It won't ruin the cycle and the fish won't die of 'shock' or 'chlorine poisoning'. Fish like cichlids and goldfish will swim around in happiness like you have never seen after (and during) this kind of water change. Just don't try it with discus and rams or if you have literal ice water in your tap.

Whenever there is some sickness in a tank that is what I do first, then add in whatever treatments I need.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

What's the pH out of your tap?
Large water changes are fine for most fish when parameters aren't altered too drastically. With nitrates upwards of 180ppm, I'd be hesitant to perform a single, large water change. Instead, I'd opt to do several smaller (30-40%) changes over a day or two while monitoring the fish for an hour or so afterwards and checking parameters (like pH) following each water change. I don't see how pH can shift more with smaller water changes as opposed to a single large water change. If anything, I'd expect the large water change to shift it more. In any case, OP mentioned already cleaning the tank, so I assume there's been at least a small water change performed.
As far as the cloudy eye goes, most eye related infections are best medicated with erythromycin. This is likely what your store was referring to since it can be harsh on nitrifying bacteria. If you do plan on medicating, monitor ammonia/nitrite during the course of treatment. But first, get your nitrates under control. Clean water low in nitrates helps the fish to heal more quickly.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Deeda said:


> Mr Tobias said:
> 
> 
> > Deeda - Why is a water change larger than 25% harmful? Do you mean just in this situation or always? It seems many people routinely do 30, 40 or even 50% weekly changes. Is this not good?
> ...


Agree 100%. When a tank has had irregular or inadequate water changes, doing a huge one is a recipe for disaster.

When your fish have regular large water changes there's much smaller changes in parameters. I also think they just get used to it.

The only fix when you realize your nitrates are off the chart is a series of small daily changes to gradually improve the water quality.


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