# 125g South American Setup



## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Based on a lot of great advice from various members I’ve decided to go with the suggestion from @Auballagh and setup the 125g I inherited at work as a SA tank. I figured I’d take some notes on the progress here.








this is after QUITE a bit of cleaning from the previous condition, the exterior still needs some work.

the tank was originally designed as saltwater and has a sump, I’m not sure the turnover rate but it seems to move quite a bit of water, I added a Tidal110, mainly just because the tank will have minimal oversight in the summer, so I doubled up on filtration and heater just in case.

Plants are scheduled to arrive later this week, going to do PFS with some potted and tied off varieplants to see what works best, an online vendor offered to choose the plants and generously donated half the cost (this is a school tank).

Going to do a Little Rock work and hopefully a few large driftwood pieces (ordered some manzanita online with what I thought was a good deal, haven’t heard back from the vendor though)

water is very soft out of the tap (1 drop each when testing for GH & KH), this helped to push me in the SA direction. Stocking plan is:

Geophagus RHTs (shooting for 8-9 to start ?)
Blue Acara (1?)
Flag Cichlids (#?)
Bristlenose Pleco (2)

not really sure on numbers, the Red head Tapajos may be tough to find, any suggestions on a 2nd best Geophagus choice?

All thoughts and suggestions are welcome!


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Oh wow.... how cool is THAT?!!!
And, I love tanks with blue backgrounds. You don't see that enough, and that color will complement the plants, rocks and wood very nicely. Provides sort of a 'Nature Aquarium' effect with a blue sky vibe.
Okay then... _rubs hands_ down to bizness then, yo'.
Let's refresh and inform this recommended stocking list again!

5 _Mesonauta festivus,_ Festivum or Flag Cichlid.
1M-4F _Geophagus sp. 'Tapajos'_, Red Headed Tapajos (RHT) Earth Eaters (A 'harem-keeping' species. Fun! Start with 8 to 10 baby fish and pull out excess males)
NOTE: _Geophagus steindachneri_, 'Rio Magdalena' is a really excellent (better!) choice - and it's ON THE LIST.
- 1 _Aequidens metae, _Yellow Acara (Another larger-growing - peaceful - centerpiece fish of the aquarium! And, it's also ON THE STOCK LIST _Andinoacara pulcher_, Blue Acara can be substituted if desired....
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More,

This tank will be fairly lightly stocked with fish. And yes, you could up the numbers a bit. But it may help to remember though, that stocking with even more of the little beasts will produce - even more waste/Nitrates. This means more water changes! More tank maintenance for what is supposed to be a pretty 'easy keeper, right?
Show us a picture of the sump! Whatizit?
What kind of lighting have you got in mind for this heavily planted tank?
Hard to tell from the picture, but does this aquarium have a double overflow system?


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

I really like the suggestions of the Rio Magdelena earth eater and the yellow Acara, I’m sold!

I’ll get a pic of the sump tomorrow , it is mostly hard piped, so I cleaned it out the best I could but it doesn’t seem super easy to give a real good cleaning.

It is a double overflow setup, they drip/flow over some bioballs (is that a wet/dry??). I have no sump experience…I’ve been reading up on some thing but I’ll post a few pics to see if I have it running the correct way.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Yep. A sump with bio-ball filtration media is your classic 'trickle' or 'wet/dry' filter. Should work just fine. And yes, if you're unsure of the setup for one of those things, please post up a picture or two and ask questions. There is definitely plenty of help here on this site for those things.
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Heck man, with any 3 of us likely to respond - you'll probably get FIVE opinions!


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Oh I forgot the lights, I think I may not have made the best decision on lights, I bought 3-18” NICREW classicLEDs for planted tanks (thought I was ordering 24” lights) and a NICREW 48” classicLED. All are on timers.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Agreed!
And unfortunately, those lights you got may not provide enough light to support a heavily planted aquarium. I mean you bought four lights anyway... so, why not purchase four, 36 inch long plant lights?


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Why not purchase longer plant lights? Bad decision making! Haha I thought they looked like a good deal and they said for planted tanks, but I thought they were 24” of light, I was going to start there then add on if needed (there are 2 dividers up top so I though would be good to not have to move the lights if they fit each opening), I’ll probably have to add on a better 6’ light I’m guessing?

i put the order in with the vendor for the following :
(1) Aequidens metae 'Rio Atabapo' F0
(10) Geophagus steindachneri rio magdelena (I’m shooting for 1m/4-5f, it looks like you only have unsexed of this right?
(5) Mesonauta sp. 'Manapiare'
(2) Chaetostoma formosae L187b 'Rio Guamal' F0

Looks like there are only 2-3 flag cichlids though, think I should add something else?

here is a couple pics one of the sump and one of one of the overflow sides , it’s 30G. I put some gravel on the left side from a disease free tank a coworker has to help speed up the cycle, otherwise there are just the bioballs on the left and some poret on the middle divider. (No clue what I’m doing with a sump really).


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Yes, a really good, high-quality 6 foot long plant light would take of this. Or, two cheaper six foot ones if you're after redundancy. The setup now with all of the little pieced together lights, just ain't gonna cut it.
And, you could just leave well enough along with the 3 Mesonauta. But, I personally would add 3 Angelfish to that - Mesonauta and Angelfish get along pretty well and look good in an aqaurium together. 
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As for the sump, it looks good in the picture and seems to doing just fine doing sump things. I would make sure that the foam is doing it's job to distribute that water on top of the drip plate (clear plate with holes in it, to spread the flow of water across the bio-balls more evenly). Do you have an electric heater sited down inside the sump? Keeping the heater out of the aquarium is one of the advantages of having a sump, and those thing work a lot better/more efficiently, with a constant flow of water around the heating element. The water level in the sump can be kept higher than where you have it - the bio-balls will work fine submerged. Just make sure that when the pump is shut off, the drain down level from the tank doesn't threaten to overflow the sump! (It's a little bit of a balance).


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

There is supposed to be foam on top of the drip plate? It currently just runs to the drip plate and distributes to the bio balls underneath, I replaced the foam on the overflow intakes and there is some foam after the bioballs.

I bought 2 eheim jagr 250 heaters, they’re too long to fit in the sump, would’ve been better if I got smaller ones, 1 of them takes care of heating the tank (room gets 4-5 degrees cooler in winter though.

plants came in today and I did some scaping, not too pleased with the results but Iam not good with design/appearance of things in general, should work for the purpose I think. I wanted to add some wood and ordered from an online retailer but I thinkthey took Halloween a little too seriously and ghosted me…I have some apple wood that’s been seasoned for 1.5 years, may try to just use that.

Oh, ordered a much better light, Finnex planted 24/7


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Okay then.... that's not a bad start!
But well....








Look a little different? So c'mon now, there's a couple things going on in that pictured tank.
1) The wood items are TALL. That's important for a number of reasons. The most important being that it will help to break up the sight lines of the Cichlids in the tank - reducing aggression. Another, is the plants. They are ON that wood. Moss, Anubias and other things go a long ways to softening up the wood. Enhancing a more natural/realistic appearance.
2) The rocks. A base in this case of some pretty sizable rocks. Once again, those rocks are covered in plants. Mountain lace is recommended because of its rough texture that will help the plants to adhere more firmly onto its surface. Plus, those rocks are sited directly onto the BOTTOM GLASS of that tank. NOT on top of the sand! Your Cichlids are gonna dig. And then... they will dig some more. The all-time best pastime EVER for an industrious, kinda bored Cichlid is to dig out from under the rocks. For some reason they ALL seem to love doing that. This will weaken the stack or pile if the rocks have been placed on top of the sand. Making the perfect conditions for the dreaded - - *ROCKFALL!!!!!!*
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Sump Stuff. Do the drain pipes from the tank dump directly on top of the drip plate? If so, the flow might be much stronger directly under the drain pipes. The edges of the drip plate might be getting much less water. A sheet of pond filtration foam placed on top of the drip plate will help to break up the initial flow and more evenly distribute the water across all of the holes in the drip plate.
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You're gonna need some more plants. Get plenty of Java Moss, Java Ferns and Anubias to tie-off/fasten to the wood pieces. And set those wood pieces up you got, so they extend all the way to the top - even a little beyond! BIGGER rocks! See how the stack kinda gets higher towards the back? You need some cover to hide those pots for your substrate rooting plants behind.
But, you've got a lot to biuld on - it's a good start!


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Looks like the mesonauta may not work out from the retailer, any suggestions to replace them?


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Hmmmm....Go all Angelfish instead! There are some really nice ones in development on that list. Was there anything put up as an alternate choice recommendation by the retailer?


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Few pics to show progress, got some wood and more plants, still need to beef up the rock work. Most of the fish came in today too, going to round out with some angels most likely.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Pics didn’t show up for some reason, I’ll try again:


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Oh yeah, that is looking much better!
The little Geos and your Catfish look tiny in that tank! How many RHTs did you wind up getting? (And don't worry - everyone will grow out quickly enough).
I see you opted for the pond basket method of potting up your substrate-rooting plants? I considered that as well, but my Cichlids were just too hard on the furnishings in the tank to succeed with that method. Within a week with my own little 'Budfies' and those potted plants, I suspect I would have had floating plants and loose potting soil spread around just about everywhere in my tank! 

Do you have the plants wired or at least tied down (w/nylon string) into the pots?
Did you cover the potting soil with a 1.5 to 2 inch layer of small grained gravel?
And yes, when you get some more rocks in there to mask, support and brace up the pots for your plants, they won't look quite so vulnerable....


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Thanks! I couldn’t find any RHTs so I went with Red Humps (10).

I didn’t realize the pond baskets were a bad option, I should’ve used the goldfish bowls? I just put some ecocomplete in there and planted the plants, sounds like I messed that one up, I’ll try to lock in the baskets woth more rock soon.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

You might be over-thinking this.....


DutchAJ said:


> I just put some ecocomplete in there and planted the plants,


I've never used that stuff. Mostly because, I'm too cheap to purchase something that may - or may not - work very well without CO2 in a planted aquarium. 
Some Q's,

Did you get the black gravelly looking stuff?
How does it 'sit' in water? By that I mean, is it kinda 'floaty'? Or, does it have some weight to it like true aquarium gravel? (If it is heavy enough, you may be able to use it as a protective top-coat for potting soil).
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There could be some problems:

The glass 'fishbowl' seems to be an ideal shape to retain the soil for a potted plant in the aquarium. That narrow neck, with the larger overall volume works great! Your open design in those black plastic pond baskets you purchased, will NOT give you much soil holding security for your plants.
Potting soil. My entire aquatic plant keeping philosophy is based off of Diana Walstad's work in the management and science of the low-tech (non-CO2) based aquarium. High-grade potting soil (NOT the 'cheap stuff!) will provide a very rich source of nutrition and trace elements that are needed by your aquatic plants. Some plant species, a lot more than others (Amazon Swords much?). So, with no CO2 addition.... the visible root mass produced by aquatic plants grown out in gravel or volcanic-based (Eco Complete) substrates, is severely diminished in comparison with those grown out in high-quality potting soil. It's no contest!
The war against Algae. It's coming! Algae is mean. It's obnoxious. And has been one of the biggest causes of frustration and ultimate failure in the aquarium-keeping community. The diabolical stuff can just be absolutely relentless in attacking your aquatic plants. You think the aggression posed by your fish is something to be concerned about? Hah! There will soon be an ALL-OUT WAR being waged in your aquarium by those plants and algae! It's vicious, man. And, the only way I know of to get your plants 'combat ready' and healthy enough to deal with that attacking algae - is to feed them well with a natural source of nutrition taken up by their roots. Get those roots established as a healthy foundation to sustain the fight. DO NOT use fertilizers or other things in the water of your aquarium! You will just be providing arms and ammunition to the enemy - ALGAE! Your plants are gonna need to produce _*allelopathogens*_ to protect themselves from the coming, inevitable onslaught. It's like their own, specialized immune system. And, they are gonna need to adapt themselves to the new conditions they will soon be facing in their new aquarium environment. You have just sent some bold colonists into a very harsh, unforgiving world indeed. The algae waiting for them, will definitely fight to win!
More Plants. You DID say 'Heavily Planted' right? I completely agree! 'Partially Planted' just means weak, struggling plants that you are forced to constantly help in a losing fight against algae. 'Heavily Planted' means that those plants can work together to seize the initiative, eat all of the available nutrition in the water and just basically keep the algae successfully at bay. You just can't half-*ss this thing, and expect to win the coming fight....


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Hahaha it doesn’t FEEL like I half-a**ed it!! 

Think I should get more of anything specific? I was considering getting more anubias or some Java fern to better load up on the wood but thought the other stuff would fill in pretty solidly over the next month?

I was going to put more rocks around all of the pots to lock them in.

It is the black fine gravel, seems to sit well and I packed it down pretty good but didn’t tie it off in the pots, I put root tabs in there with it, I’llget some fish bOwls and repot in those with some of that organic miracle grow (was actually reading about the Walstad method on aquarium science this AM) and top off with the black gravel.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Nope.....


DutchAJ said:


> repot in those with some of that organic miracle grow











C'mon now, remember what I said about using _*HIGH QUALITY*_ potting soil?
Sorry man, Miracle Gro just ain't it. Get some Fox Farm potting soil, either 'Ocean Forest' or the pictured 'Happy Frog'.
And yes.... I hope you're just warming up with those plants! You need some Java Moss on that wood, and a whole host of other non-substrate rooting plants.
I normally use black or brown nylon thread to tie off those plants. The skinny zip-ties work pretty good, esp. for Anubias. Probably have to link up more than a couple to get around some pieces in there. Don't use rubber bands! Those things don't hold long enough for the plant to get attached properly to the wood! 
Otherwise - yer' looking good!


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Picked up some soil and fishbowls, another round of plants on the way (3 kinds of moss, 4 more Java fern and 4 more anubias).

how much bottom space does a group of Geophagus need do you think?


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Now we're talking!


DutchAJ said:


> Picked up some soil and fishbowls, another round of plants on the way (3 kinds of moss, 4 more Java fern and 4 more anubias).


Oh yeah, that'll start getting that wood set up right, and looking good for you. When the non-substrate rooting types adapt to the environmental conditions in your aquarium and start growing strongly, they can be propagated and spread around further, as well. This new plant growth is exactly what you need, as it will be most resistant to the algae fighting against it.
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And with the smaller-sized _Geophagus steindachneri, _your six foot long tank should give them plenty of room in there to sift, dig and work through that sand substrate - even if a lot of it is taken up by rocks, potted plants and wood structure. They're gonna do just fine.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Hmmm I’m thinking I may have lost the A. Metae somehow, didn’t see him at all today, even during feeding, no clue what could’ve happened, couldn’t find him anywhere, didn’t have time to move any hardscape around though.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Yikes! That is normally a pretty hardy species.... is it possible he just - jumped out - of the aquarium? And, you are using established filtration media from some of your other tanks to seed out/inoculate the new media in this one, correct? 
Meaning - this aquarium is not going through an initial ammonia/nitrite bacteria cycle, is it?


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Well the jump out was my guess, there was a small opening that I should’ve covered better but I looked all over and couldn’t find him, pretty confused.

yeah I usedsome old media and did a full fishless cycle. Been taking readings every day, 0-0-10 pretty steady, I did a water change yesterday, tank was 76 after it (keeping at 78), used Safe, no other fish look distressed or anything (the Geos are significantly smaller and looked real healthy).

i am pretty confused, doubt it would have hid all day without a peep. Just can figure how he could’ve jumped out without a trace, unfortunately I had to leave after school today and it’s locked up tomorrow, the mystery will have to wait….


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Mystery solved! He did jump out, but jumped into the corner overflow that is against the wall, I took a video looking into it yesterday and he must’ve been hiding, but spotted him today, got him out, should be good!


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Not sure why they do that.... I had a Cutteri that was apparently just _FASCINATED_ by the corner overflows in the 180 gallon tank he was in. I didn't lose him either. But unfortunately, kept finding that knucklehead down in the overflow box. Lost track of how many times he went in.... Maybe it's the current thing or something that kept him coming back? 
I dunno.
Just be sure you have a tight cover over the corner overflows in your tank. So, if yours keeps going over also, at least he'll just wind up in the overflow box.

Again.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Tank is stocked and plants are in, I’m going to change over the pots to some plastic fishbowls with the organic soil that was recommended next week hopefully. 

5 koi Angels









Left side of tank








Whole tank










10 Geophagus Steindachneri (Red Hump)








Aequidens metae (yellow acara)








Right side of tank









L187 Pleco (2)


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

So, this tank is pretty well stocked right? I shouldn’t be thinking about…1…more… fish, right????


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Your tank looks great! The plants are young and still a bit undersized, but they'll start growing strongly for you soon enough.
You need to fix those Anubias down better onto the bog wood pieces. You can actually use super glue for any you might be considering placing on rocks. I would make sure it's a good rock with some coarseness to it and edges etc. for the roots to wrap around onto.
Same with the moss. You can put yourself into a spell tying of little clumps of that stuff here and there throughout the tank! Time Consuming!
And no.... NO More Fish! You said it yourself remember - the water change thing might at times be less than perfectly scheduled. You're gonna need low fish numbers (bio-load), with a high amount of plant mass (Nitrate Hoovering Sponges) to keep that tank dialed in with Nitrates measured under 20 PPM.
Be careful! Your Earth Eaters are almost certainly the most sensitive fish in the tank. Very Sensitive to getting HITH/HLLE if the water quality slips and they get stressed, (Immune suppression).
Nope, give everyone time to grow out a good bit. They're babies! Then, a bit further on when you see how this tank actually works to 'manage it's business', you should look into potential new addition(s), Hmmmm.... Maybe 3 of those _Mesonauta festivum_, Flag Cichlids you missed this time around?.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Sounds good, I’ll keep the stocking as is. Looks like I’m picking up a 55G full setup that I thought was going pretty cheap (2 large penguin filters and a Current USA LED full spectrum light) for $150). Well, there’s also a yellow lab and Electric blue acara (both full grown), I can give the Acara to a buddy and try to rehome the lab.

Thanks for the the the superglue idea, I had figured that they would just grab on with the roots and lock in after a bit.
I thought I was done, but bought some Amazon Swords to add to the mix too.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Oh cool. What is the 55G for? Possible quarantine/hospital/grow out tank? Or, another potential home side project? 



DutchAJ said:


> bought some Amazon Swords to add to the mix too.


NUTRITION HAWGS!!!!! You are definitely gonna need to pot up those Amazon Swords in your fish bowls. And, what size did you get? Too small, and you will wind up re-potting those things just about every year. They grow a TON of roots - super fast.
But, those Bad Boyz do eat some Nitrates outta the water of an aquarium.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

I have some gallon and some quart size bowls, guess I’ll put those in the gallon! 

I’m going to also set it up at school for now, going to put some plants in it of things that sound easy to propagate (so I don’t have to buy any more). Thinking start with a sword, crypt, and some jungle Val.

Im thinking of either not stocking with fish or just do a species tank with one of the Africans I was considering or maybe trying a C Saulosi planted tank. 
I had messaged back and forth a few years back with @fmueller about some planted C. Saulosi tanks he had done and that’s always been on my “want to try” list.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Not what I was expecting so far, but nitrates haven’t climbed up to 10 really so far, did a 40% water change on Friday and the nitrates today are barely registering on the scale. Didn’t think the plants would keep the nitrates down that much, even with juvies in the tank.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Well....


DutchAJ said:


> Didn’t think the plants would keep the nitrates down that much, even with juvies in the tank.


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Yes, aquatic plants will actively consume Nitrates out of the water of your aquarium. However, your plants are _- PROBABLY -_ now consuming the much easier to process (more delicious?) Ammonia and Nitrite compounds out of the water. Doing that will basically have the same overall chemistry effects in the aquarium... BUT, it helps to remember that the beneficial bacteria in your filtration media and the aquatic plants are both basically competing for that same source of food! So the downstream effects of this are - less beneficial bacteria numbers will be colonized/established on your filtration media. They are there, yes. They will just NOT be present in the same numbers as they would be in a tank without aquatic plants to compete against.
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Meaning? You will have weak (but still established) filtration media compared to the media taken from non-planted tanks. So, if you need to transfer that media over to a new (non-planted) aquarium, it will take just a bit longer to grow out the beneficial bacteria numbers needed in filtration media originating from a heavily planted tank.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Noticed the coloring on the Aequidens metae (yellow saddle acara) is just starting to show, 3 weeks in the tank so far.


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Oh yeah..... And the best part about this? 'The Show' is just fixing to begin! Once adult sizes are attained in that species, they are just flat-out beautiful.
There's your Centerpiece Cichlid!


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## BlueLineAquaticsSC (Jul 16, 2021)

Im a little late to the party, since I usually live in the CA Cichlids section. I am curious about the pipes on the sump, every used salt water tank I’ve seen had a good crusting of salt on it, was it hard to clean out those pipes?


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Cleaning did take quite a bit of work, lot of scraping/wiping down on the outside (and there is still some buildup on the exterior of the pipes) and on the interior I filled it up and ran the pump maybe 7 or 8 times. The tank was not kept up at all by the previous keeper.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Didn’t take any pictures but was able to start propagating some swords and Java fern a bit, tried the superglue method to attach the java fern and some moss to the driftwood, WOW that was so much easier! Definitely glueing everything from now on.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Was able to get a few “not so great” pics of the crew a few months in, putting on good size all around, although the red humps are slow growers! 
Having some algae issues, trying to get the tank dialed in, guessing too much light?


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

This one is looking good! Love your _Aequidens metae_. Too many people are all about those Green Terrors. And yeah, those are a good looking Cichlid, to be sure.
These are better. 
As for your Red Headed Tapajos Earth Eaters (RHT)? Well, they ARE a Dwarf Eater Species. So, growth may not be as fast or strong as in the larger species. However, could it be possible that other your little piggies in there are getting most of the food before your RHTs have a chance to get at it? I mean they should come up a bit and snag things outta the water column, but those Cichlids really do like things to settle down onto the bottom.
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Your tank is still just a bit youngish to get a crop of ol' Nasty (Mean Old Mr. Algae) fully established in there. Can you tell what kind/species of Algae it is? And no, lighting is rarely the problem in a heavily planted aquarium - unless you don't have sufficient intensity and quality (strength/power) to drive strong growth in your aquatic plants.

Is this Algae possibly Cyanobacteria growth?
What sort lighting did you ultimately wind up getting for this tank?
Timer, correct? What are your settings currently for the on-off cycle?
Are your plants in there really growing well for you?
And lastly, who have you got on cleanup detail? If it's that one sorta omnivorous catfish (pretty!), you may need to stock the tank with some algae-eating reinforcements. Briustlenose Pleco? (And say hello there - to the 'True' Siamese Algae Eater!)..
And so then... let's see if we can get those aquatic plants sorted out....


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

The Steindachneri are red humps, they seem to have round bellies after feeding, I’m guessing they just are slower growing or I am a bit impatient!

it could be Cyanobacteria now that you mentioned it, I’ll try to get some pictures and see what you think.

I have a finnex planted 24/7 48” light on for 8 hours and a nicrew light on for 4 or 6 hours , the plants seemed to be growing great initially but I think slowed down now, my thought was the algae growing on them was interfering with growth…???

I have 2 rubberlip plecos that don’t seem to be getting the job done! I can add more


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

If you do have Cyanobacteria, it's best to just hoover the stuff out with water changes or net it out. Nothing in the tank is gonna help in this effort you by actually eating it. And yeah, your Rubber Lip Plecos will go after the algae pretty good. But, you may need to give them a little help.
To that end... it would be hard to beat a group of_ Crossocheilus Siamensis_, the 'True' Siamese Algae Eater.









Algae eaters compatible with Geophagus and Apistos


Hi, I am finalising my stocking list and I am stuck on the cleanup crew/algae eaters. The recommended choice is BN pleco, but I really don't like plecos. The stocking list is: angelfish, geophagus tapajo, congo tetras and apistos cacatuoides and borellii. I have never had shrimps, so I like the...




www.cichlid-forum.com





Active, peaceful and actually fun to watch, I believe they would make outstanding additions to your aquarium. And like their name strongly implies, they definitely WILL tear up some algae. Just be careful and ensure you get the right species. If you wind up getting the so-called 'Flying Fox' or the Chinese Algae Eater instead? Not good! And well... you are gonna be sorry. Those other ones don't really eat any algae, and they are notorious fin/tail nippers. Plus the nasty little gits will tend to eat the slime coat off of other fish!


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Forgot to take the pictures before leaving, had to rescue a couple of the P Nicholosi from the other tank into this one at the end of the day. They were getting beat up, but now they’re trying to breed with the red humps…


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Hmmmmm.......
As per your P. nicholsi thread in the Lake Victorian, Madagascar... section of the forum,


Auballagh said:


> Whoa... nice color on those Congos and your _Pseudocrenilabrus nicholsi_. That blue is really starting to pop on those fish!
> And well... just WHAT type of Cichlid do these Congo Basin, mouth-brooding little guys remind you of?
> 
> View attachment 140472


Uh huh..... they look a LOT like a small version of a South American Earth Eater Cichlid, don't they? Be interesting to see what develops in there with your Red Humps. If you had a Red Headed Tapajos male in your tank with those guys? Well..... I'm sure WAR would have been shortly declared the instant one of your Africans had the nerve to 'sprinkle' one of 'HIS' girls! Whew..... those guys can be downright nasty to other males in an aquarium. The Red Humps? Well, they might be a bit more calm about the whole thing...
Have to see, I guess......


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

So the “after summer vacation” update on the tank:

- the Blue Green Algae seems to be much better now, still some on plants and wood but the sand and glass are both close to clean. My thought is that I was keeping nitrates too low and the “only top off” scenario of summer helped

- the 2 P nicholosi that I had to add to the tank don’t seem to be bothering the red hump, and seem to be in good health, but I want to get them out of there (the African tank only has one remaining in it, so not sure what I want to do with them

-4 of the Angels look awesome, 1 looks like it is getting shunned, I need to rehome him soon

-red humps all look super healthy and sized up nice, a number are showing more color, have t. Been able to notice any holding though

- the A metae is looking GREAT, but it rarely comes out, only when really hungry and is super skittish if I take my phone out for a pic


I’ll try to get some pics for a better update, the plants are so/so, the Cyanobacteria isn’t helping I don’t think, the Java fern is doing the best of everything 

Was hoping of adding some flags but don’t see anything available right now, maybe a few Blue Acaras, but not sure if they’d be fine with the metae?


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Thanks for the update! This info all sounds pretty good.
Got some feedback for you, as follows,
- Not surprised the Valisneria kind of wimped out on you. This posting thread may help with a bit more care & keeping info,








Vallisneria twister or Regular one


Hi…i just want to know which species of vallisneria grows to the least height? I have my sump with space to put them but the height isnt soo much especially when the return pump is working…mayb about 8-10 inches water level while pumps working… Heared about vallisneria tortifolli…anybody having...




www.cichlid-forum.com





I DO NOT recommend adding any other Acara type Cichlid in there. As you've seen, the _Aequidens metae_ in your tank is not very aggressive when kept as an individual in a mixed community tank. With those Blue Acaras it may just attack them, or will just wind up pairing off and spawning with one of the females, creating all sorts of unwanted hybrids.
A shame you can't find any _Mesonauta festivus_, Festivum or Flag Cichlid to go with those Angels. Four or five of those in that 6 foot long tank would be very nice. Worth it! I'd keep looking for some of those.
Did you ever consider getting any Tetras for this tank? A mid-sized species that don't eat plants (or will nip at the Angels) could look pretty cool.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Actually I was just digging through some options on a school of tetras, I like that idea. Also looked into apistos a bit, would they work?

here’s a few(bad) pics,outside of glass needs a cleaning!

Best I could get, the A metae doesn’t like the phone at all!


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Hmmmmm....
Your plant growth for this tank looks kind of 'meh...'. And, I can see where the Algae Monster has been making growing and some in-roads on many of your plants. Lighting? Was plant growth ever strong in this tank for you? Plus, did you try to put in any potted, Amazon Swords to this tank? Two or three of those things should get that tank looking lush pretty quick. And, I would even try putting in a couple pots with _Valisneria gigantea_, Jungle Val or Eel Grass.
-
And yes, a 1M/4-5 harem group of _Apistogramma cacatuoides_, Cockatoo Cichlid, should do just fine in that aquarium.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Plant growth was just alright, the Cyanobacteria started taking over and covered everything by June, I reduced lighting and its much improved now, I’m just hoping that the growth picks up as the cyano goes down?

I did have potted swords and val, the Val was completely shredded down and the swords haven’t done much. I have not been adding liquid ferts, should I try that?


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## Auballagh (Jan 29, 2003)

Runaway cyanobacteria growth can happen with newly established aquariums. By this point though, the plants should have become strong enough to consume/eat the Phosphates out of the water causing the problem. Did you do any cleaning of the cyanobacteria to physically remove it from the plants and help them fight it off?
Plus, with the three smaller-sized LED lights, your lighting always seemed kind of marginal to me. Is it possible it just wasn't strong enough to power up and grow out the plants? How many hours did you have the plant timer set up to run the lights initially, before you started shutting them down?
Plus, by 'shredded down' I'm guessing that means your _P. nicholsi_ in there just basically chowed down on them? Have they also been doing that to the Amazon Swords in there as well? If so, and you want to keep those herbivorous Cichlids in this tank, you will probably need to provide more plant species in there that they don't like to eat.
As you've seen, Java Ferns are rarely a popular item on the menu. And, I've NEVER seen anything that will eat Java Moss in an aquarium. Getting a lot more of those Anubias will help also. They're slow growers and won't do much individually. But, if you get enough of them they will make a difference.
Also, you may want to try and experiment with immersed plants such as Pothos for this tank. An actively growing batch of those will definitely consume the Phosphates that may be driving the cyanobacteria growth in this tank. And yes, it's possible your little herbivores in there will just tear up the Pothos roots dangling in the tank. If so, you may have to provide some sort of refugium thing or something to keep them safe.
And no, I totally DO NOT recommend adding liquid plant fertilizer to a planted aquarium without a CO2 injection system installed to sustain strong plant growth. That stuff would probably just drive the Algae Monster wild in growth. Plant fertilizer sticks spiked/placed down into the soil of your potted plants are the only safe way I know of to feed live aquatic plants in a low-tech/Non-CO2 driven aquarium.


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## DutchAJ (Dec 24, 2016)

Thanks @Auballagh ,

I have a finnex planted plus 48” on for approximately 8-10 hrs and a 24”Nicrew on for 6 hrs.
*** cleaned the plants a bit but should really get them a thorough cleaning shouldn’t I. I’m getting the nicholosi out of both tanks tomorrow, they didn’t bother the swords in the other tank. Hopefully I can propagate a bunch of the Java fern and get the tank filling out I. The next 3-4 months. The swords in the other tank have been setting plantlets nicely, maybe I’ll take a couple of the ones I replanted and move them to this tank


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