# help



## cichlidguy22 (Jun 20, 2002)

im trying to find out what these are
http://gi272.photobucket.com/groups/jj1 ... res012.jpg
http://gi272.photobucket.com/groups/jj1 ... res005.jpg
http://gi272.photobucket.com/groups/jj1 ... res007.jpg
http://gi272.photobucket.com/groups/jj1 ... res014.jpg


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Two fish.

1 & 3. Nimbochromis fuscotaeniatus
2 & 4 Protomelas sp. "Taiwan Reef Steveni"

They have been hormoned, and I can't verify if the second fish is pure or not.


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## copasetic (Nov 26, 2007)

how do you know they are hormoned?


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Because they have coloured up at such a young age, they are pretty much still juvies.
S*!&$ me when people do that


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## cichlidguy22 (Jun 20, 2002)

does that means they are males and will the be ok since you think they were hormoned???


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Hormones can do long term damage to the internal organs of fish. And, hormones can also force females to take on male colouration...

Kim


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## cichlidguy22 (Jun 20, 2002)

so these fish could be screwed....
Well at least they get to live in a 125 gallon tank as opposed to a 5 gallon at the store


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Pretty much screwed, more than likely infertile and like Kim said it may even be female


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Their growth _could_ be stunted, or as I said before, it _could_ do damage to their internal organs over time.

I don't do business with LFS that sell hormoned fish.

Kim


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## cichlidguy22 (Jun 20, 2002)

should i pull them from the tank????


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Im with Kim i despise them.


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## copasetic (Nov 26, 2007)

yes i wish i knew more clues to hormones other than just color at young ages.. i have Tawain's that get a nice blue to the head at young age with no hormones. And i have seen peacocks that can show color at very small size and other lines that take until large adults.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

cichlidaholic said:


> I don't do business with LFS that sell hormoned fish.


Let me elaborate...I got called out on this one! 

I only buy my cichlids from a LFS run by an importer and avid cichlid enthusiast who wouldn't stock cichlids that are hormoned or altered in any way.

That isn't to say those hideous painted tetras (or whatever they are calling them these days) aren't in the tank on the other side of the store. To each his own...

But I don't have to worry about my cichlids!

This is the only LFS I trust that much, and we have another one locally that sells hormoned peacocks all time, as well as many other hormoned species. I won't do business there at all.

No need to remove them from the tank, cichlidguy22. It's not "contagious", and you are now well aware in case you start experiencing health problems with these fish down the road.

Kim


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## copasetic (Nov 26, 2007)

what are some more hints to look for hormones.. If you can see the wild parents at a private breeder and the young peacocks reaching color at young age, it can be hard to tell the difference between strong genes and hormones. Obviously if way too many have color than something is up.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Besides the colouring at a young age. Not to much actually but a real calmness in the tank is another sign. All the fish will look is they are standing still, A healthy non hormoned tank will always have a dominant fish in the tank and the fish are always active. Hormoned fish aren't like this.

Basicly if you look at a tank of 20 haps of about 2-3inchs and 90% of them are coloured up as if they are the dominant male in the tank, then them fish in that tank are being hormoned. There should only be a coloured dominant male and a sub-dominant male that is only slightly coloured.

LFS's do this to increase the appeal of the fish in hopes of selling more to inexperienced fish owners.

I stay right away from places i notice using it, they are doing the wrong thing by hobbiest's so why should we support them.


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## copasetic (Nov 26, 2007)

i just know i dont want to hear my F1 flametail or F2 chiwinidi peacocks called hormoned because more than 1 male shows color at a young age. Yes you can see 1 is more dominant and better colours but i think strong genes can get confused with hormones.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Copesetic i think you will be fine with your F1 F2 the fact that they are two different species is the reason they have both coloured. 
If you bought an entire tank full of F1 Flametails and they were all coloured up then there is reason for concern...There should only be 2 or 3 coloured up males and only 1 fully coloured up no matter how strong the genes


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Copesetic i think you will be fine with your F1 F2 the fact that they are two different species is the reason they have both coloured. 
If you bought an entire tank full of F1 Flametails and they were all coloured up then there is reason for concern...There should only be 2 or 3 coloured up males and only 1 fully coloured up no matter how strong the genes


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think another sign of hormones is extensive finnage for the age of the fish.


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