# My New Cryptoheros Sajica from Jeff Rapps



## justhooked (Jul 31, 2008)

:dancing: I just got a male/female pair of Sajica in today from Rapps. They are about 1 1/2". This link is what they will look like full grown. http://www.worldcichlids.com/fotm/july2005_t-bar.html

I am just wondering if there are many out there? I haven't heard a whole lot about them and[/img] I didn't see them in the profile section.


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=134

Here on C-F, they are still listed as Archocentrus, might be why you couldn't find them. Sajica's are not as common as Cons or HRP's now, but they've been around for quite some time. Jeff has a real nice line of genetics with his, you got some great fish! Keep the water crystal clear, do lots of big water changes, feed them well and you will get some great cichlids! Realize thats a VERY exceptional fish though, in his picture, but you're fish are carrying the genes.


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## justhooked (Jul 31, 2008)

Thanks Dan. Yeah I realize that the pair pictured are exceptional. I am fortunate to have been able to get the 2 I have and just want to make sure I do the right things for them.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Slow moving water, lots of spurlina ... :thumb:


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## justhooked (Jul 31, 2008)

Thanks Dwarfpike. I have them on spirulina flake right now along with a pellet. Is there a food that will bring out their colors?


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

Just feed them good food, and their colors will come out as they mature. I would make the diet equal veggie/protein, maybe even a bit heavier on the protein side, like 60/40, they're not mbuna herbivores, but omnivores/insectivores. Hikari gold, NLS, Dainichi...all good stuff. Also toss some treats once or twice a week like frozen/freeze dried shrimp, live blackworms if you can get them.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Actually, per Linke and Staeck's book 'American Cichlids II: Large Cichlids' ... Bussing (1974) found that stomach analysis "revealed that the fish preferably feeds on plant material." Yes, insects and small fish were found, but the large percentage of the stomach contents were filamentous algae. Hence the spurlina suggestion. :thumb:

If they were mine, I'd do mostly NLS and spurlina flake, with freezed dried krill and frozen bloodworms for treats and color.


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## justhooked (Jul 31, 2008)

I buy all my food from kensfish.com. I have spirulina flake, floating/ sinking betta pellets, angelfish pellets, catfish sticks, premium sinking pellets with spirulina. I also raise night crawlers (my husband fishes) and I pull those and freeze them then partially thaw and dice. Which would be best for these guys?


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

=D> does that article only cover large cichlids tho? cryptoheros are not very large. we know many of the vieja species do enjoy a veggie heavy diet. not trying to start an arguement just curious. also it has been stated recently by some collectors that a lot of the streams cryptos are found in have a significant lack of vegatative growth, and the theeth are all wrong to be algea grazers such as mbuna or the ca rainbow cichlid which does have mbuna like teeth.


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## TempestGarden (Jul 22, 2005)

I posted a question about this species on another forum and noone answered it...

Does anyone know if it would be possible to keep multiple females of this species together if there was no male in the group?


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## Vincent (May 7, 2004)

TempestGarden said:


> I posted a question about this species on another forum and noone answered it...
> 
> Does anyone know if it would be possible to keep multiple females of this species together if there was no male in the group?


I have 4 females together in a 75 gallon tank with other fish. There is some aggressive chasing but no real damage.

I have a male in another tank. I am keeping them separately to prevent them from breeding because they require fairly large territories when breeding.


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## TempestGarden (Jul 22, 2005)

Vincent said:


> I have 4 females together in a 75 gallon tank with other fish. There is some aggressive chasing but no real damage.
> 
> I have a male in another tank. I am keeping them separately to prevent them from breeding because they require fairly large territories when breeding.


Thanks for the reply. What other fish do you have in the tank, if I may ask?


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

Care for these guys as you would convicts, spilurum, or the like: regular water changes, not too high temps, and good quality food.  They're not picky.

When I was keeping and breeding mine, I fed them NLS and Kensfish color flakes with frozen bloodworms a couple of times per week. They breed like convicts and are good parents.

Keeping multiple females together is no problem...although they'll "breed" together...or breed with other closely related fish without male sajicas.

What's funny is that a couple of years ago I could hardly give these away...and now they're evidently the "new" cool fish. :lol:


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

Dog - I know right? lol they're coming back into popularity again it seems, which I can understand they're a really good looking fish.

Thats another person using kensfish foods, I've been meaning to give his stuff a shot, especially because he has such a variety. The fry foods look really good and very cheap too.


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## justhooked (Jul 31, 2008)

His food is awesome!


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

Well my LFS is going to stop doing bulk food, so I need to get some from somewhere in a few weeks. I'm gonna run out my current supply and then make an order with ken for several types of food.


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## Vincent (May 7, 2004)

The fish are in a grow-out tank with 8 Amphilophus altifrons, 1 Cryptoheros nanoluteus, 4 M. herbertaxelrodi rainbowfish, 2 female Limia perugiae, and a calico bushynose pleco.

The dominant female sajica is very nicely colored but goes after all the other sajica females which are not as pretty.



TempestGarden said:


> Vincent said:
> 
> 
> > I have 4 females together in a 75 gallon tank with other fish. There is some aggressive chasing but no real damage.
> ...


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

*con-man-dan* - Well, the first book was dwarves, so the 'large cichlids' covered all the mid to giant sized species. It lists 3 species within the genus; sajica, septemfasciatus, and spilurus. Diet was similiar, though sajica did have the higher algae contents over the other two. You are right, their teeth is quite differant than mbuna and rainbows, but neither of those species concentrates on filamentous algae ... which is the type found in the sajica. I've had this bear out in my tanks with a convict actually, within two days all the filamentous algae was gone. No other changes to the tank were made at the time.

*dogofwar* - I wonder if it's the lyonsi effect? The were overlooked for a long time as well, until it came out their habitat is in trouble. Sajica come from nearly the same area of western costa rica (pacific coast), just a touch south of the lyonsi range. Still it would make sense if the lyonsi habitats are in trouble, so would the sajica ... just a thought.


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

wow who needs plecos? just add some cryptos :lol:


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

All depends on the type of algae though ... he wouldn't touch the normal stuff on the aquarium glass though. :lol:


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

well thankfully I hardly ever get "blessed" with any type of plant growth, be it plants I bought or algae.


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

I'm a big fan of Kensfish food. I still use NLS Thera A, as well, though.

I don't think the issue with sajicas is lack of wild fish. Not sure when these were last imported...but they've been around in the hobby since the mid-80's (that's when I first got them at least). They're easy to breed and should be widely available.

I think the problem is the fickle nature of the hobby: everyone wants something for awhile...then "everyone" has it...so people don't want it anymore...and only a small percentage of those who keep them actually raise and breed them...so they're gone in a particular area.

Until end of 2007 (when I moved and sold them) I had at least 2 pairs of sajicas breeding every month or so...and provided lots of sajicas in the Sacramento, CA area (sold through clubs and LFS). I quit bringing them to auctions and LFS because people acted like they were doing me a favor by giving me 50 cents each for 2" fish (breeding size)!

The solution is to keep the fish that you like...instead of the fish that are "cool" at the moment...and keep them well: breed them and distribute them in the area to others who will be responsible with them.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh, I don't think it lack of wild fish ... but like you said, it's the nature of the hobby. If they are perceived to be in trouble, it makes them seem rare and thus become hot ... until the market gets flooded and people get bored, as you said. I just wonder if their perceived vunerablity is adding to their new popularity ...

I've always liked them though, I think they have some of the best coloration of their group.


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

Dog - oh so true!!! Look at HRP's for example, 2 years ago they were going for 20$ a pop at the LFS's for 1" fish. Now I see them for just a few dollars more then convicts. When I used to be active in the clubs, you could barely give them away. Its interesting what happens inside local areas. Same thing happened with X. alvarezi swords. Someone got some in, bred them, they made it to the auctions...within 6 months you could'nt get rid of the things locally. Online they were still a hot seller though.

If you're breeding something to make a few bucks, you either have to stick with basic staples that always sell well (such as tangs), or have something new/rare. Either those choices, or you have to fork over the money for breeding sized adults or pairs of the new "hot" fish. EBJD's for example, I have seen breeding pairs go for 500+ on the 'bid, groups of 20 fry for nearly the same price. I remember the first time I saw them I though who in the heck would pay 20$ for that little 1" fish? But, all things come to an end, just like blood parrots, flowerhorns and red texas.


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## TempestGarden (Jul 22, 2005)

Personally I have been interested in the Cryptoheros genus for quite some time. It started a few years ago with C. cutteri. I have never kep these fish but I want to someday. Since I recently saw C. Sajica for the first time, it just made me even more interested in them.



Vincent said:


> The fish are in a grow-out tank with 8 Amphilophus altifrons, 1 Cryptoheros nanoluteus, 4 M. herbertaxelrodi rainbowfish, 2 female Limia perugiae, and a calico bushynose pleco.
> 
> The dominant female sajica is very nicely colored but goes after all the other sajica females which are not as pretty.


Ahh... okay. So you don't intend to keep them together as they get older if this is just a growout tank? I really wish I could keep a few adult females together...


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

Something that's great is to do box swaps with other fish clubs.

A particular fish might be abundant in one area...and rare in another. And vice versa. Voila - everyone's happy and has something "new".

Even tangs - and colorful ones! - aren't immune to fickle hobbyists. At my local fish club auction last weekend, I bought two bags of six (a dozen) very nice 1-2" leleupi for a total of $6. $6! And a breeding pair of 3" F1 brichardi for another $6... Great deals but not motivating for people to keep and breed quality fish!

The hobby has become too much about "what's the hot fish," "who has the rarest fish" and impressing others with "what's in the box" and too little about keeping the fish that YOU LIKE and acquiring the skills and experience to successfully and sustainably raise and breed them for generations...

But back to the sajicas and down off my soapbox 

Matt


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## TempestGarden (Jul 22, 2005)

dogofwar said:


> The hobby has become too much about "what's the hot fish," "who has the rarest fish" and impressing others with "what's in the box" and too little about keeping the fish that YOU LIKE and acquiring the skills and experience to successfully and sustainably raise and breed them for generations...
> 
> Matt


Matt... welcome to the reptile hobby as well. (lol) It is some kind of collector's mentality or something. But, it is the exact same thing with reptile keepers/breeders.


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## justhooked (Jul 31, 2008)

There are many that I have seen that buy and sell their fish on a whim. I end up trying to research each one I get before I get it and after. I live in an area where it is difficult to give fish away let alone sell them. I have to order my fish online because the one and only LFS only carries small easy to care for beginner fish. The sajica caught my eye because they are a beautiful smaller size cichlid that can live in my 110 community tank. I also ordered from Mr. Rapps an A. Robertsoni, a Paratilapia Polleni, a Hypsophorys Nicaraguensis, and a Marble convict for my 125. I got them from him because I figure if I am going to have to pay to have them shipped to me, I might as well have high quality fish that I know are pure.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Yeah, I have to say I've fallen to the 'new and hot' stuff in the past ... now I'd prefer something like _Pelmatochromis nigrofasciatus_ over some hot, new flashy Tropheus or other silly stuff.


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

Not to derail...but here are some of mine (breeding): http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... atochromis

Now back to the sajicas 



dwarfpike said:


> Yeah, I have to say I've fallen to the 'new and hot' stuff in the past ... now I'd prefer something like _Pelmatochromis nigrofasciatus_ over some hot, new flashy Tropheus or other silly stuff.


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## justhooked (Jul 31, 2008)

Dog those are beautiful fish!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

:drooling: :drooling: :drooling: :drooling:

At the sajica of course ...


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## justhooked (Jul 31, 2008)

lmao, of course!


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

While I must admit I don't stick with my fish for a very long time, I am not into "fad" fish either. I guess I've never been able to get rid of that BAP-mentality lol get some new interesting, rare, cool or just different fish, grow em out, breed em a few times, trade off for the next in line. The only fish I'll likely end up holding onto for a while are my pike (also the only fish I have ever named, Maynard) and probably my amphilophus pair (at least until I figure out what the heck they are lol) and possibly...my freddys.


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

Since I've gotten back into fish (about 5 years now after a few years "away") I've intentionally not participated in BAP....although I do breed and sell a lot of fish!


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## justhooked (Jul 31, 2008)

OK , what is BAP? I have only had more challenging fish for the last year. I haven't gotten rid of any that I knew what I was getting. I do have to admit that when I graduated from Mollys, I got Mbuna (Kenyi, Auratus, Zebra) without proper research. Managed to rehome them all to people who knew what they were doing with them, and learned a valuable lesson. Not to just buy fish before researching them.


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## Vincent (May 7, 2004)

In a good-sized tank I think it would be fine to keep a few adult females together. Two of the females are adults I got as fry from the Sacramento ACA. The other two females are some of the first offspring of this group.



TempestGarden said:


> Vincent said:
> 
> 
> > The fish are in a grow-out tank with 8 Amphilophus altifrons, 1 Cryptoheros nanoluteus, 4 M. herbertaxelrodi rainbowfish, 2 female Limia perugiae, and a calico bushynose pleco.
> ...


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

You probably have some of mine (sold some at the ACA in Sacramento) 

BAP = Breeder Award Program

A lot of fish clubs have them. You get points for breeding fish. Some people cycle through breeding lots and lots of fish to get lots and lots of points. I prefer to keep and breed stuff I like... often for years. And not count points!


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## justhooked (Jul 31, 2008)

Well that would explain why I didn't know what it was. There is no club here. Heck the closest LFS is 30 miles away and it sells strictly livebearers and small tetras.


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## dogofwar (Apr 5, 2004)

Where do you live in PA?

There's a club in Lancaster County...and a bunch of them carpool down to MD for Capital Cichlid Association meetings each month....


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## con-man-dan (Aug 19, 2006)

If you can find a good club, its worth the travel once a month. You meet some really great people, have the chance at lots of cool fish, possibly get to "show" some of your fish off and such.

I don't participate in the clubs anymore, but had it not been for tearing down my fish room twice for moving, I would have had a good shot at winning the BAP. Like Dog said, you get points for breeding fish, usually you have to own the fish for a while (1 month in our club) raise the fry to 30 days, and bring XXX amount of fry to a meeting or have the spawn verified by an authorized member. Cichlids usually have low points on average, because they're easier to breed. Some have higher points, but my club nearly ALL cichlids were 10 points. Compared to some plecos, and characins and killies which can be harder to breed, you can get 15-30 points per spawn. However, me and the guy i was competiting with went nuts with cichlids. At 10 points per species, you just have to spawn a LOT of cichlids lol

I keep things a little bit longer now days, but still breeding is the best part of keeping fish for me. Getting to sell some off is just a bonus.


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## justhooked (Jul 31, 2008)

I am in Linesville. It is about 1 hour south of Erie and 2 1/2 hours north of Pittsburgh.


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