# compatibility??



## dubai (May 1, 2009)

Right! So i have done endless research in preparation of my 110cm x 50cm x 65cm (300l) tank I'm building. Unfortunately where i live, theres a lack of suppliers and even more so good suppliers. I have narrowed down, from a list of fish i can buy. Can someone please give me advice on combinations and quantities of these fish that will work. I'm new to cichlids so any advice would be much appreciated.

Red Zebra
Tang Eel
Albino Red Top Ice Blue
Jewel Fish
Lionhead
Blue Eye T-Bar
Peacocks
Aurora
Firemouth
Rusty
Five Bar
Electric Yellow Lab
Saulosi 
Various Dwarfs

If there are any other "must haves" I will see if I can get hold of them. The shop i've found import from Sunbeam supplier in Singapore (if that helps). Also recommendations of "clean-up fish" would be good. I'm planning sand substrate with rock, wood and fair amount of hardy plants. 2 canister filters (probably eheim) and probably 2 powerheads if necessary. I'm really looking for maximum colour! I find that there's a wealth of information on the net but so much of it is contradicting and confusing!! Help!!


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

avoid confusing and go with a biotope. I wouldn't mix continents, ever. You'll find some fish are compatible from other sides of the earth however their water parameters are nowhere close. I.E. you're "Tang eel" (I presumme Tanganyikan eel?) will flourish in water with a PH of 8 and higher whereas your firemouth is best suited for soft water (6.8 or lower) with a high tolerance for nitrate. Your yellow labs and rustys will kill your dwarves (if by dwarves you meant blue rams etc.?). Too much wood will soften and dye the water brown like tea making it less hospitable for african cichlids. Also keep in mind that just because Jewel cichlids are African doesn't mean they're compatible. Jewels can be very aggressive and also require softer water due to the fact that they are African Riverine Cichlids and not rift lake cichlids.

I don't even mix lakes let alone continents, I am finnicky though and, health wise there is no reason, for example, that you cannot mix Tanganyikan cichlids with malawi cichlids. I have heard of "successful" new world mixed with old world cichlid tanks but I suspect the proclaimed success is due to the fact that fish cannot talk and explain their discomfort with water parameters and natural habitat. I think you should decide what type of fish you'd like to keep and from where and then narrow down your stock list by colors that please you (Some folks are into behavior over color so you can factor that in too if you like), then research which ones are hardiest since you're new to cichlids, which ones do you have space for and, finally, you'll have a better idea of what will create a more peaceful, healthy and colorful environment.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

BioG said:


> avoid confusing and go with a biotope. I wouldn't mix continents, ever. You'll find some fish are compatible from other sides of the earth however their water parameters are nowhere close. I.E. you're "Tang eel" (I presumme Tanganyikan eel?) will flourish in water with a PH of 8 and higher whereas your firemouth is best suited for soft water (6.8 or lower) with a high tolerance for nitrate. Your yellow labs and rustys will kill your dwarves (if by dwarves you meant blue rams etc.?). Too much wood will soften and dye the water brown like tea making it less hospitable for african cichlids. Also keep in mind that just because Jewel cichlids are African doesn't mean they're compatible. Jewels can be very aggressive and also require softer water due to the fact that they are African Riverine Cichlids and not rift lake cichlids.
> 
> I don't even mix lakes let alone continents, I am finnicky though and, health wise there is no reason, for example, that you cannot mix Tanganyikan cichlids with malawi cichlids. I have heard of "successful" new world mixed with old world cichlid tanks but I suspect the proclaimed success is due to the fact that fish cannot talk and explain their discomfort with water parameters and natural habitat. I think you should decide what type of fish you'd like to keep and from where and then narrow down your stock list by colors that please you (Some folks are into behavior over color so you can factor that in too if you like), then research which ones are hardiest since you're new to cichlids, which ones do you have space for and, finally, you'll have a better idea of what will create a more peaceful, healthy and colorful environment.


CA cichlids usually have a higher pH and given the space and appropriate tankmates will flourish with some rift lake cichilds. Like wise African riverine cichlids can be maintained with some SA cichlids. You've made some sweeping generalizations based on incomplete information.

I agree that this fellow's stock list could use some refinement, but there are good ways to mix the African lakes as well as mix cichlids from different continents. It just takes a bit of care and research, the same as you would do when deciding to purchase any fish.


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Yes, I've made some sweeping generalizations, however they are based upon complete information rather than incomplete information. Unfortunately I only possess time to make my suggestions general. Books are available for the purpose of specific detail. I was basing my suggestions upon what I, and nature, believes to be in the best interest of the animal I'm housing. apart from tank walls and a few other things I try to force the animals I keep to compromise their natural behaviors and exercises as little as possible. I also stated that "I" do it a certain way, to infer that I do not mix lakes. However that is, as I said, my way and not necessarily important to the animals themselves. Cichlidae are a broad family of fish and it would be foolish to be specific and state that no SA Cichlid prefers high PH and alkilinity with a KH of 10+. Maybe there is, I haven't heard of one, but that doesn't preclude it from being possible. To be more specific yet equally as sweeping I will, so you know that I know, advise which SA's can be kept with africans. Firstly, African rift lake cichlids "Prefer" stable and specific water conditions. By prefer I mean this is what they have been provided with in the wild thus they are well adapted to it. Jewel cichlids and Kribensis, for instance are used to water closer to that of The amazon and it's drainages and can, therefore flourish in that environment so long as tankmates are taken into consideration. I've seen many African Riverine cichlids mixed with Sa's and they seemed to jive well. I've seen all kinds of blends, continental, species, etc. and almost all are achievable in some sense however un-ideal to the species themselves. I'm not sure what darkside got from my, pretty specific prior message, but the majority of dealers and aquarists who have reputable experience will suggest none different then what my advice indicated. If "special care" is taken then, as I said, very many unnatural combinations can be achieved with "success", however if you follow the advice I've given, specifically, then you won't experience as many hard learning experiences as if you start mixing sharks with gold fish!


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

BioG said:


> Yes, I've made some sweeping generalizations, however they are based upon complete information rather than incomplete information. Unfortunately I only possess time to make my suggestions general. Books are available for the purpose of specific detail. I was basing my suggestions upon what I, and nature, believes to be in the best interest of the animal I'm housing. apart from tank walls and a few other things I try to force the animals I keep to compromise their natural behaviors and exercises as little as possible. I also stated that "I" do it a certain way, to infer that I do not mix lakes. However that is, as I said, my way and not necessarily important to the animals themselves. Cichlidae are a broad family of fish and it would be foolish to be specific and state that no SA Cichlid prefers high PH and alkilinity with a KH of 10+. Maybe there is, I haven't heard of one, but that doesn't preclude it from being possible. To be more specific yet equally as sweeping I will, so you know that I know, advise which SA's can be kept with africans. Firstly, African rift lake cichlids "Prefer" stable and specific water conditions. By prefer I mean this is what they have been provided with in the wild thus they are well adapted to it. Jewel cichlids and Kribensis, for instance are used to water closer to that of The amazon and it's drainages and can, therefore flourish in that environment so long as tankmates are taken into consideration. I've seen many African Riverine cichlids mixed with Sa's and they seemed to jive well. I've seen all kinds of blends, continental, species, etc. and almost all are achievable in some sense however un-ideal to the species themselves. I'm not sure what darkside got from my, pretty specific prior message, but the majority of dealers and aquarists who have reputable experience will suggest none different then what my advice indicated. If "special care" is taken then, as I said, very many unnatural combinations can be achieved with "success", however if you follow the advice I've given, specifically, then you won't experience as many hard learning experiences as if you start mixing sharks with gold fish!


As far as I know CA (Central America) is part of North America and there you will find plenty of cichlids that prefer a higher pH. Every aquarium we keep is "unnatural"


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Darkside,

Trust me, no hard feelings, I just like to argue to a certain extent. Which CA Cichlids prefer higher ph? are we talking riverine? Just curious, I'm definitely more adept with rift lake fish and have some experience with SA's.

For humor's sake I will argue that if animal husbandry, i.e. capturing animals, insects etc. for purposes of domestication, study or otherwise is an element of human nature than aquariums are quite natural. For example, a fish in an eagle's talon is not a beneficial environment for the fish, however it is a natural position for the fish to be in. We, however, aim to keep our catch alive and we do so, hopefully, by providing the most beneficial environment possible.

It's been fun!


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Most CA cichlids can be found at a higher pH, the good old Jack Dempsey is an example. Since we have officially divorced human impact from nature, I'll have to argue that anything we humans do is contrived. Yes, it may be more beneficial for the fish's long term survival, but if we don't breed them we've taken away their fitness and that would take away their ultimate purpose.

My point is that people are dreadfully worried by the mixing of cichlids from two different continents, but they don't mind mixing their cichlids with BN plecos or clown loaches. You'll find that Ancistrus are very commonly recommended across this board for clean up duty even though they're an unnatural addition. I urge people who would like to try mixing fish to do so, as long as they've read up on what they're doing and they have some sort of contingency plan for fish in case the mix doesn't work as expected.


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## josmoloco (Aug 23, 2008)

Darkside is correct! A firemouth is from CA not SA and will thrive and breed at an 8.0ph. ON the otherside of the board I regularly beed venusus,salousi,peacocks, and labs in a ph7.6-7.8 ph.(they are all tank raised parents)....... But this thread is to dubai

A cool tank would be 15 salosi (of either sex)
1m 4f Ice blue
1m 4f red zeba


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

There is a lot more to mixing fish than just pH. Many fish are very adaptable to a wide range of water conditions, others not so much. However, we also need to take into consideration tank requirements, aggression, and breeding. IMHO, this is the point where we run into trouble, especially when mixing substrate spawners with mouth brooders.

Can you mix fish? Yes, but from your rather eclectic list of fish it would be difficult to determine what would and would not work. Further, what has worked for one person when mixing species does not always work for everyone else. My recommedation for anyone new to cichlids would be to pick a region and stick to it until you are comfortable enough to start expanding.


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## josmoloco (Aug 23, 2008)

+1 to Dave, If you are new, making "Cichlid Salad" Could be a a chunk of work.......(as i found out)


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

I agree with Dave and am interested to find out if Fire mouthes are found in like water to rift lake cichlids or if they're just ab;e to tolerate it well? I don't doubt that you could get away with a lot of combos and mixes, however, I merely wanted dubai to understand that it can be very hard on the fishkeeper and the fish to make, as jos put it, "cichlid salad". It's pretty tideous just mixing biotopes from the same source location let alone mixing continents etc. Find me a fish from another location that is found in similar water parameters, biotope etc. and, given enough tank space, I'll support that mix all day.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

fyi... i bought someones complete stock recently,,, all mbuna except 4 firemouths.. they seem to get along great and coloring nicely??? not sure what it says on the books but working great so far.. :thumb:


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

I think having a good enough space to work with makes a lot of difference when mixing cichs. You could probably jam pack malawis in a more confined area then, let's say, putting dempsey's together with mbuna in a smaller tank. I would guess, all water parameters aside, that with enough space for each group to keep to themselves you'll have a better chance at success. That is to say, co-exiztence without an unreasonable amount of aggression or territory disputes.


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