# Stocking advice needed



## mathas (Jul 18, 2008)

I'm looking for some stocking advice for an upcoming 90 gallon (US) tank, which is 48"w x 18" l x 24"h. The tank will have a sand substrate and will be planted, mainly with low-tech plants like Anubias, java ferns, and java moss. I won't have enough light for swords, but I am open to fake swords if anyone can recommend some that actually look good. Most of the ones I've seen around here look entirely too plastic for my tastes.

Here's one of the stocking options I'm toying around with:

1 angelfish 
3 bolivian rams
6 corydoras
1 smaller-breed plecostomus
8-10 dither fish (ideally harlequin rasboras, with bleeding heart tetras as a backup plan)
malaysian trumpet snails

Even with the rocks, cave, driftwood, and plants, I think I have room for at least a few more.

That's where you experts come in! What else could I add to this tank that won't nip the angel's fins, and won't eat the plants or the snails? Another cichlid type (keyhole, perhaps?) would be great, but I'm open to all suggestions.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ryansmith (Apr 10, 2003)

Keyholes would probably do well in that tank. I always had great success when keeping keyholes with angels. There are also the flag cichlids, _Laetacara sp._ They are small, stocky fish similar in temperament and behavior to keyholes but possibly more colorful (though not much).


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *mathas*,

First thing I would do is look at your stocking levels. I would double the number of every species you listed.  
2 angelfish 
6 bolivian rams 
12 corydoras 
2 smaller-breed plecostomus 
16-20 dither fish

I always like the look of the wild cuaght species of angelfish, especially Red Peruvian scalare, but each to his own.

For the plecos, look at these profiles. Personally I'd start with L183, Starlight Bristlenos. Easy to look after, and will keep some control over algea.

As for dithers, there are so many species of tetras. Personally I prefer two different types that school. There are many higher bodied tetras, Red & Black Phantom tetras, Lemon tetras, Diamond tetras, bleeding Heart tetras, as well as Emperor & Blue Emeror tetras. I also love marbled hatchetfish, they school right at the surface (provided there isn't a strong surface current), and are something a little different. Photo of some of my marbled hatchetfish.


----------



## mathas (Jul 18, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback, both of you!



DeadFishFloating said:


> First thing I would do is look at your stocking levels. I would double the number of every species you listed.
> 2 angelfish
> 6 bolivian rams
> 12 corydoras
> ...


Well, looking at the oft-repeated "1 inch of adult fish per gallon of water" rule, your suggestion would leave me at around 107" of fish to 90 gallons of water. It might be OK with frequent water changes, since I have a filter that's larger than necessary for the tank, but that still seems a bit too overstocked for my tastes.

However, after getting the tank last night and looking at just how much room there is even with the rocks and wood, I absolutely agree that I can fit in more than I'd thought; and when it comes to the cleanup crew (corys and plecos), I'll _need_ more than I'd thought.



DeadFishFloating said:


> For the plecos, look at these profiles. Personally I'd start with L183, Starlight Bristlenos. Easy to look after, and will keep some control over algea.


I've never been a big fan of the bristlenose plecos, but that is a beautiful fish. That one's definitely going on my wanted list, after the tank cycles.

Here's what I'm considering now that I see the tank:

3 x angelfish
3 x bolivian rams
8 x bleeding heart tetras
8 x corydoras
2 x L183 bristlenose plecos

My only concern is having the three angels, and possible aggression issues if I accidentally wind up with a breeding pair. But if 3 angels can work out, that would give me around 80" of adult fish, which leaves me enough room that I could choose to add one more fish. Any suggestions on what I could add for a bright pop of color, but will stay under 5"?

I was intrigued by the color of a red velvet swordtail I saw at the local fish store, but I'm open to all suggestions.


----------



## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

I have no experience with Angels but I suggest to check how many of them you need to keep the tank peaceful.

I suggest to keep at least 5 Bolivians and with enough plants and driftwood around you could easely add 9 of them if you like. The 8 cory's will be fine and a nice group. I do suggest to take the number of tetras up to 16 or 20 for some nice schooling behaviour. If you would make up your mind and go for smaller tetras I suggest 20 to 30. The larger species like the bleeding heart are save with Angels dough. Two bristlenose will be fine.


----------



## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

Angels will pair, so once they do, you want only 2.

The inch per gallon rule is obselete.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hi again *mathas*,

Angelfish aren't always the Angels they are named after. As *dielikemoviestars* alluded to, once two out of three angelfish form a pair, they will pick on the third angelfish. There have been many members here who have experienced this, and even had angelfish kill other angelfish.

This is why I suggested getting only two. However the problem here is, when buying juveniles it's next to impossible to tell males from females. What many people do is buy six juveniles, and grow them out, and when they identify a definate pair, they return the rest to the LFS. If you have the money to do this, this would be my suggestion. Just make sure you make an arrangement with your LFS, rarely will they give you money back, but are often happy to do it for store credit.

Definately follow *Dutch Dude's* advice when it comes to Bolivian rams, he's the man (hi Ed, Blair   ). As *Dutch Dude* said, Bolivian rams are social fish and you'll get much more enjoyment watching them interact.

The problem with the one inch per gallon rule, is that it does not take into account which area of the tank a certain species of fish will occupy, what size of territory a certain species will require, and how a certain species behaviour and temperament will impact on possible tank mates.

I (and many others) have found that by carefully planning your stock list, you can stock a tank rather heavily. Anyway, I have a reputation for offering advice towards the conservative end of stocking levels.

A note on fancy plecos, they produce a lot of waste. Also, read the species profiles on the link I provided, as different species of plecos have very different dietry needs. Basicall... Most Ancistrus (bristlenose) species are omnivores and will eat certain vegetables, veggie & krill wafers, and meaty frozen foods like blood worms, brine shrimp, diced shrimp, etc. Panaques are vegetarians, and eat wood and certain vegetables. Hypancistrus species are meat eaters, and will eat meaty frozen foods like blood worms, brine shrimp, diced shrimp, as well as any dead fish (not always a good thing).

I highly suggest looking on PlecoFanatics USA trading forum for buying plecos, before you buy from a LFS.

As for colour in your aquarium, like I said in my first post, there are many, many varieties of tetras, in a wide variety of shapes and colours. One misconception is that they will swim in the upper levels of a tank. Most species swim in the mid to lower levels of the tank, prefering to stay closer to planted areas. And not all species school, often you'll find them in loose groups going ever which way.

Don't ever judge a fishes colour by thier appearence in the LFS, especially SA cichlids and tetras. In my experience, get the fish home, and settled in your aquarium and feed them a quality, varied diet for two months, and then you'll see thier best colours. With many tetras, often you'll notice subtle colour differences once they mature.

Some of my favourite tetras are Lemon tetra (schools loosely and loves planted areas), Blackline Penguin tetra (larger specis, that schools in the upper half of the tank), Rummynose tetra (very good schooling tetra) Glowlight tetra, Black Neon tetra.

Finally a note on aquascaping. You mentioned rocks in your previous post. Many of our SA cichlids and tetras come from areas where there are few or no rocks. While some of us do have rocks in our SA aquariums as breeding areas, they are nothing like African aquarium rock piles. All of the species you have in your list would quite happily live without any rocks what so ever. Most of them would prefer some driftwood, root tangles, and lots of plants.


----------



## mathas (Jul 18, 2008)

Lots of great advice so far, thank you all!



DeadFishFloating said:


> Angelfish aren't always the Angels they are named after. As *dielikemoviestars* alluded to, once two out of three angelfish form a pair, they will pick on the third angelfish. There have been many members here who have experienced this, and even had angelfish kill other angelfish.
> 
> This is why I suggested getting only two. However the problem here is, when buying juveniles it's next to impossible to tell males from females. What many people do is buy six juveniles, and grow them out, and when they identify a definate pair, they return the rest to the LFS. If you have the money to do this, this would be my suggestion. Just make sure you make an arrangement with your LFS, rarely will they give you money back, but are often happy to do it for store credit.


Do angels only breed in certain conditions, or am I pretty much guaranteed that if I have a pair, they will breed regularly? I ask because would really prefer not to end up with a tank full of angelfish fry (or protective parents defending their eggs/fry), since I don't have a separate tank to raise them in.



DeadFishFloating said:


> The problem with the one inch per gallon rule, is that it does not take into account which area of the tank a certain species of fish will occupy, what size of territory a certain species will require, and how a certain species behaviour and temperament will impact on possible tank mates.


Ah, that would explain it. I was under the assumption that the inch-per-gallon saying had to due with bioload produced by the fish, rather than swimming room. But hey, if you guys say I can stock more heavily than I'd anticipated, that's good news as far as I'm concerned.



DeadFishFloating said:


> Some of my favourite tetras are Lemon tetra (schools loosely and loves planted areas), Blackline Penguin tetra (larger specis, that schools in the upper half of the tank), Rummynose tetra (very good schooling tetra) Glowlight tetra, Black Neon tetra.


I've always liked the rummynose tetras (at least what I've seen of them in stores), I just hadn't considered them for this tank because I was afraid that an adult angel would look at a smaller tetra like that as a snack, which is why I was considering a "taller" tetra like a bleeding heart. If the angel/rummynose combination can work, a school of 20 or so would be great.



DeadFishFloating said:


> Finally a note on aquascaping. You mentioned rocks in your previous post. Many of our SA cichlids and tetras come from areas where there are few or no rocks. While some of us do have rocks in our SA aquariums as breeding areas, they are nothing like African aquarium rock piles. All of the species you have in your list would quite happily live without any rocks what so ever. Most of them would prefer some driftwood, root tangles, and lots of plants.


Yeah, I don't plan to go too overboard with the rocks, but I do need a few to hold the driftwood in place. I'm heading back to the LFS later today to get another piece or two of driftwood, and I'll seek aquascaping advice later in the week. It's plant placement, in particular, that I'll want help with.

I only have about 1.4 watts of light per gallon and no CO2 system, so I can't grow anything too exotic, but I have sufficient lighting for Anubias and java ferns. I'd love to find a good fake amazon sword plant to add, since I don't have the light to support a real one, but I haven't had much luck yet. If you or anyone else has suggestions on good artificial plant sources, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks again for all the advice so far, to everyone that's posted.


----------



## ryansmith (Apr 10, 2003)

If angelfish are happy in an aquarium they will spawn. They need virtually no special treatment to breed. The problem is that angels all have individual personalities like most other SA cichlids. Some may terrorize their tankmates and some may be really passive. You can't really tell what your fishes' personality will be like until you see it first-hand.

I treat discus and angels the same. I always buy a group of six and weed them out as they reach sexual maturity. I wouldn't get a group of less than four.

I have kept pairs in community tanks before. Some have even raised fry to the free-swimming stage in a community. Unfortunately you won't know what type of temperament your pair has until you see it for yourself.

The possibility of a single angelfish isn't out of the question. Just be aware that if you try to add additional angels later, you could be asking for huge aggression issues from your lone established angel. In my experience, lone angels have trouble accepting new angel tankmates later on. That's why I try to buy all of my angels at the same time.


----------



## mathas (Jul 18, 2008)

ryansmith said:


> The possibility of a single angelfish isn't out of the question. Just be aware that if you try to add additional angels later, you could be asking for huge aggression issues from your lone established angel. In my experience, lone angels have trouble accepting new angel tankmates later on.


I'm OK with having just one angel... in fact, that was part of my original stocking plan!

For the fish being considered in this thread, would I be better to use the "power jet nozzle" or the spraybar attachment on the output from my filter? it's a Rena Filstar XP4 if that makes any difference. I seem to get a lot more surface movement from the nozzle, but I don't know what type of currents these fish prefer.


----------



## mathas (Jul 18, 2008)

After considering the advice given so far, here's the stocking list I'm leaning towards right now:

1 angelfish
5 bolivian rams
20 rummynose tetras
8 corydoras
2 plecostomus

I think my next steps are going to be conditioning the water and adding the plants (I've started an aquascaping/plant advice thread here, if any of you would be kind enough to chime in).

But on the topic of conditioning the water, I need some help there, too. I drained most of the water today so I could add a new piece of driftwood and rearrange what I already had without being in water up to my armpits. In the picture below, you can clearly see a line left on the glass by the waterline where I drained it down to. I'm guessing that whatever that buildup is, it probably wouldn't be good for my fish, but I'm not sure where to start in removing it. Any thoughts on what it might be, and what product could be used to treat the water?


----------



## carpio77b (Feb 28, 2008)

I know this is slightly off topic, but I would go with blue rams over bolivians. I find bolivians to be rather dull looking especially in comparison with the blue rams.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

*carpio77b*, GBR's are nicer to look at than Bolivian rams, but in general they are a little harder to keep.


----------



## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

*mathas*...I agree with all the advice so far. You're latest stock list looks good but I would still be tempted to go with a minimum of 6 bolivians. Their best attribute is their social behavior so the more you have the more of that behavior you'll get to enjoy :thumb:

*DeadFishFloating*... :lol: ruurd is the man. cheering for Cadel Evans?


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Sorry to the OP for going a bit off topic...



> cheering for Cadel Evans?


**** yeah...been staying up late and watching the man. Not sure if he can bridge the 1.34 that Sastre has on him in the time trial on the penultimate stage.


----------



## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

A nice low stock list. Do you want to go for low maintenance? If so I suggest to stick at the list. If not I still see some room for more tetras. With the curent stock list you can increase the number to 30 without problems.

So far the tank looks very nice and great parts of driftwood :thumb:

Abouth swords,....once the swords developed aquatic leaves they do look diferent. I keep swords in a densely planted tank with only 0.6 Watt/gallon. So 1 Watt/gallon would be more than sufficient. There are a lot of diferent species and also some very pretty hybrids like"specie "grose bar" that is flamed with red and greenish. Very easy to grow and it defelops lots of flower stems all the time. A common easy and larger Echinodorus is the E. bleheri. A smaller specie is E. parviflorus and a very nice small specie (great in front of the wood) is E. parviflorus sp. Tropica.E. barti and E. osiris are nice reddish colored. They need some food at the roots (tabs is possible) and they apreciate some iron ferts every once in a while. If the light period increases the 12 hours they grow larger stems on the leaves and even can grow out of the water. In your set up Echinodorus will definitely be a very nice looking plant. Valisneria is also a nice suggestion.


----------



## slickvic277 (Aug 20, 2006)

head and tail light tetra's aka pretty tetra's look great in a large school,about 20-30. Once they settle in there colors become very intense and if the water is a little tannin stained they will really shimmer and have a bright red eye.They school really well too.In the lfs they look bland but there tuff hardy fish that will settle in very quickley.A very underated fish IMO.


----------



## slickvic277 (Aug 20, 2006)

Swords will look great in that tank.I had some(3)amazon swords that took over a 75gallon with less then 1.5 watts a gallon no ferts except root tabs and no co2.The plants constantly sent up shoots with babby swords that I would break off let them gow in another tank and then sell them to the lfs.Great choice in fish and plants!


----------



## mathas (Jul 18, 2008)

Dutch Dude said:


> A nice low stock list. Do you want to go for low maintenance? If so I suggest to stick at the list. If not I still see some room for more tetras. With the curent stock list you can increase the number to 30 without problems.


Yes, I do want to go for low maintenance at least at first.

Speaking of my stocking plans for fish, every time I go to the LFS, I can't help but watch their otocinclus play. I think they are incredibly fun fish to watch and would love to be able to replace one of the planned bristlenose with a group of 6-8 otos, but I'm not sure how well that would work out with an adult angelfish. It appears to me that an adult angel could probably fit an oto into it's mouth, but that doesn't necessarily mean it _would_. Anyone have experience (good or bad) with the angel/oto combo they'd be willing to share?

I realize otos can be difficult to acclimate, but I'm willing to accept that challenge if they are a good match to the other fish I have planned. If they're not, then I stick with two bristlenose!



slickvic277 said:


> Swords will look great in that tank.I had some(3)amazon swords that took over a 75gallon with less then 1.5 watts a gallon no ferts except root tabs and no co2.





Dutch Dude said:


> Abouth swords,....once the swords developed aquatic leaves they do look diferent. I keep swords in a densely planted tank with only 0.6 Watt/gallon. So 1 Watt/gallon would be more than sufficient.


That's good to hear, thank you both! I was under the impression I needed more power, especially with a 24" tall tank, but I'll gladly take your word for it.

Speaking of plants, I bought my first live one today, but got home and realized I didn't even know how to plant it properly. It was labeled in their plant tank as _Anubias barteri_. I've read the profile for A. barteri at plantgeek, and it says not to push the rhizome into the substrate, but I wasn't sure about all the roots that were growing out of the rhizome. I've just kind of placed the roots between one of the rocks and a piece of driftwood, with nothing really buried in the sand. Is there something else I should be doing?

Front view:









From above:











Dutch Dude said:


> There are a lot of diferent species and also some very pretty hybrids like"specie "grose bar" that is flamed with red and greenish. Very easy to grow and it defelops lots of flower stems all the time. A common easy and larger Echinodorus is the E. bleheri. A smaller specie is E. parviflorus and a very nice small specie (great in front of the wood) is E. parviflorus sp. Tropica.E. barti and E. osiris are nice reddish colored. They need some food at the roots (tabs is possible) and they apreciate some iron ferts every once in a while. If the light period increases the 12 hours they grow larger stems on the leaves and even can grow out of the water. In your set up Echinodorus will definitely be a very nice looking plant. Valisneria is also a nice suggestion.


I have no idea what any of those are :lol: , but I'll start doing some research. Thanks for the suggestions!


----------



## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Oto's do fit the mouth of an angel but oto's are smart and fast moving fish. So it might work.

You can check www.dennerle.com for more info on the Echinodorus species. I know most of them are availeble over there as well.

Nice Anubia! It is a bit deep in the sand and you could pul it up to the point were you just can see the white roots.

If you like you can use diferent anubia species in stead of the Echinodorus. Anubia's can be attached to driftwood as well.


----------



## mathas (Jul 18, 2008)

Dutch Dude said:


> Nice Anubia! It is a bit deep in the sand and you could pul it up to the point were you just can see the white roots.


It's actually not buried in the sand at all! If you enlarge the second picture and look closely, you can kind of see that the roots are lying between the rock and the wood, with nothing buried in the sand. That's what I wasn't sure about, was whether to leave the roots _on_ the substrate, or if they should go _in_ the substrate. The profile I linked to earlier at plantgeek just said not to bury the rhizome, but didn't say what to do with the roots.

I will likely mix it up and go with some Anubias and some Echinodorus. My aquascaping thread had some other types of plants suggested as well, which I still have to look into. I don't want a tank that looks like I just walked into a store and said "I'll take one of everything", but I also don't want a tank where every single plant is the same thing at varying heights.

So I have a lot to consider!


----------



## mathas (Jul 18, 2008)

Some plants are in! I added 3 Echindorus blaheri, 2 Cryptocoryne wendtii bronze, and 1 Echindorus cordifolius. Once the smaller plants start to fill in, I'll reassess and see if anything needs to move, but for now, I'm pretty happy with the layout.










Any advice on what products to use to feed the plants? The LFS employee said Flourish root tabs would be great for the Echindorus, but I'm not sure about the Anubias or the crypts. Between Flourish, Flourish Excel, Flourish Iron, etc., I'm not sure what (if anything) I need.

I'll test the PH/GH/KH tomorrow morning, and you experts can tell me if anything seems too far outside what the fish I'm looking at can tolerate.


----------



## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

I would suggest using flourish excel, as this will help plants get necessary CO2 and iron, and try the comprehensive. Have you thought of using java ferns? They look great when you tie them to driftwood as well. I like your stocking list. I have had angels with ottos, the angels paid no attention to them. I would say go for the ottos and see what happens. I don't know how they will respond with the BN though. Some of you have given great advice, I have nothing else to add :thumb:


----------



## mathas (Jul 18, 2008)

mathas said:


> I'll test the PH/GH/KH tomorrow morning, and you experts can tell me if anything seems too far outside what the fish I'm looking at can tolerate.


Tests complete!

PH - 7.6
KH - 53.7ppm
GH - 161.1ppm

My PH test kit only goes up to 7.6, but I would guess my tap water is probably in the 7.8-8.0 range. Am I correct in my understanding that it's the hardness of my water that is limiting the effect the driftwood and peat have on my PH? Unfortunately, my understanding of water chemistry is not as good as it probably should be.

Are those values acceptable for the stocking list discussed here, or should I try to adjust something?


----------



## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

You should try getting a high range pH test kit. I have one that I use and I never end up using my regular kit. That way you will be able to know for sure. Your fish should do fine in your water, besides that many of the fish at a LFS are acclimated to the same or about the same parameters, so they should be fine. Driftwood and peat is supposed to help soften the water, so it may or may not lower KH just a bit, and it might lower the pH by 0.1-0.2 but not much. I found it takes ALOT of driftwood and peat to lower it more than that.


----------



## carpio77b (Feb 28, 2008)

My tap water is about 7.6, but when I do water changes I use about 2/3 tap water to 1/3 RO water along with stuffing an HOB filter bag with peat moss to bring my pH down to 6.0-6.5.

I have 4 otos in my tank for cleanup crew along with 6 cories, 1 bamboo shrimp, 2 dwarf frogs and a hillman loach. The only bad experience was when I couldn't find my golden wonder one night. In the morning I found it floating with an oto stuck in its mouth - both were dead  
Apparently, the oto (which was the weakest of my otos) extended it's side fins after getting chomped and got stuck in the golden wonder's mouth. The GW was about 2 1/2". Oto was about 3/4".

Other than that incident, the otos are fun and clean the algae very effectively.


----------



## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

carpio77b said:


> I have 4 otos in my tank for cleanup crew along with 6 cories, 1 bamboo shrimp, 2 dwarf frogs and a hillman loach. The only bad experience was when I couldn't find my golden wonder one night. In the morning I found it floating with an oto stuck in its mouth - both were dead
> Apparently, the oto (which was the weakest of my otos) extended it's side fins after getting chomped and got stuck in the golden wonder's mouth. The GW was about 2 1/2". Oto was about 3/4".
> 
> Other than that incident, the otos are fun and clean the algae very effectively.


Wow, the kinds of horror stories you don't see every day. Lol now don't go scaring him away from getting otos :lol: Don't worry, it doesn't happen to all of us, you will only hear the odd bad incident.


----------



## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

So far the tank looks great! I'm curious how it will look like when the plants have nicely grown in and all the fish are in there. So far so good :thumb:



> head and tail light tetra's aka pretty tetra's look great in a large school,about 20-30. Once they settle in there colors become very intense and if the water is a little tannin stained they will really shimmer and have a bright red eye.They school really well too


 They are indeed beautiful fish and when kept in good circumstances they do shimmer and almost have a golden shine on their body. They mostly stay in a group but don't school like rummy nose for example. I keep a group of 30 in my Guianacara tank and are very pleased with them. It's a strong fish as well.

Your tap water seem to be very hard! Or,...did you used sand which contains a high calcium level like beach sand? This can buffer the water to. If you did I suggest to take it out and use river sand or pool filter sand and if you already used that I suggest to make a mix of 1/3 tap water and 2/3 RO water and see what will happen.


----------



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

I like this formula, that's why I keep posting it:

_Hardness of Tap Water_ - Required Hardness = *Parts of Osmosis Water*

_Hardness of Osmosis Water _- Required Hardness = *Parts of Tap Water*

Example, based on a tap water hardness of 5, RO hardness of 1 (no hardness) and a required hardness of 2, obviously your tap hardness and required hardness will vary depending on the situation:

_5_ - 2 = *3*(parts)

_1_ - 2 = *1* (parts)

Because it would be impossible to add negatives, they are ignored and treated as positive.

As you can see from the equation, to get a hardness of 2 when the tap is at 5, you simply mix 1 parts tap water, to 3 parts RO. Easiest way to do things.

Basically as Ruurd is advising should work for your parameters, at least with a set formula to follow you get a better idea of where the variation is coming from - ie it will reveal whether it is the substrate pushing the water back up etc. Your KH isn't that high - multiply it by 0.056 to get degrees hardness (alternately divide by 17.9):

53.7 x 0.056 = 3

That KH should not be pushing your pH back up, there is something else causing this. If you create a constant in the water added (ie by using the formula above to create an accurate mix) then it will be easier to see where this rise is coming from.

Your GH is 8, which isn't too bad. A KH of 3, GH of 8 and a pH of 7.6 is quite acceptable for the majority of species, only a few specialist/delicate species would be off limits. I've generally found that it's more important to have the KH and GH within acceptable ranges, the pH has little negative affect IF the fish are gradually acclimated to it over time. Obviously it's not ideal, but with your KH and GH as is you'd get away with keeping a lot of different species.


----------



## mathas (Jul 18, 2008)

cc_woman said:


> Wow, the kinds of horror stories you don't see every day. Lol now don't go scaring him away from getting otos :lol: Don't worry, it doesn't happen to all of us, you will only hear the odd bad incident.


I didn't get scared away from otos, but I did decide on two bristlenose instead. The local store was having a great sale, and I ended up getting what I hope is a male/female combo. They're still a little small to sex easily, but basing my guess on the beginnings of the barbels/bristles, one male and one female is likely.



Dutch Dude said:


> I'm curious how it will look like when the plants have nicely grown in and all the fish are in there.


Me too!

I'm seeing new growth on the Anubias, one of the crypts, and the E. blaheri, so I may finally have found some plants that I won't kill. I don't exactly have a green thumb, but I guess the benefit of aquatic plants is that I can't forget to water them :wink:

I changed my mind again on the dither fish, after seeing how good red-tailed rasboras (or brilliant rasboras, as my local store calls them) looked in their display tank. I realize it's not a SA fish like a rummynose tetra would be, but the shape/activity level seems to be about the same, and I like the colors. I also have two bristlenose plecos (as mentioned above) and seven _Corydoras trilineatus_. I started a picture thread in the photography/video subforum, for anyone curious.

Speaking of changing my mind, I've gone back to wanting a pair of angels. I just think the interaction between a pair would be more enjoyable to watch than a single specimen. I just won an Aquabid auction for a group of 6 juvenile platinum angels, so I'll keep them until a pair forms, and take the rest to my local store.

While I'm on the topic of stocking, has anyone here kept a m/f/f trio of livebearers (preferably swordtails) in with angels/rams? I would think that the fry they drop every few weeks would be a good treat, and they're nice fish to look at. I did some very basic research on another forum, and found some people said it works great, others said the male swordtails are too prone to fin-nipping to keep with angels.



Dutch Dude said:


> Your tap water seem to be very hard! Or,...did you used sand which contains a high calcium level like beach sand? This can buffer the water to. If you did I suggest to take it out and use river sand or pool filter sand and if you already used that I suggest to make a mix of 1/3 tap water and 2/3 RO water and see what will happen.


I used pool filter sand.

My only problem with using RO water right now is money. I can't afford a RO unit, and I haven't seen bottled or jug RO water at any of the local stores.


----------

