# new to cichlids



## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

so i have a 75 gallon that is cycled and i want to put lake tanganyika cichlids in it. i still need to add a lot more rocks still and a few shells. also i was wondering if i could put a clown pleco and a rubber pleco in my tabk with the cichlids? would the ph be to high for them? also could i put a few plants in the tank with them? and my final question is what are some good begginer cichlids that have pretty colors and will get along?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

fishowner1 said:


> my final question is what are some good begginer cichlids that have pretty colors and will get along?


My post only reefer's to this question.

Apistogramma Cacatuoides and Kribensis are two beginner cichlid keeper's and they are colorful! In a 75g you could have 2 Male and 4 female of each then do some otocinclus catfish!


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

haha yeah well funny thing is is that i already have a krib lol i bought him for one of my normal tanks i just got a new 60 gal that im moving most of my fish to. i would like to keep the krib and the plecos in the 75 as they are my favorite fish i have so far but i also liek Altolamprologus compressiceps my lfs has these guys but i dont know if my krib can go with these guys. i also like the Apistogramma Cacatuoides but i dont think my lfs has those guys but i will check next time i go. are Apistogramma Cacatuoides expensive? i like cichlids that attack the water when you drop food in lol i went there today and they put food din and it was all gone in like two seconds lol that what i would like to have :thumb:


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Apisto cac's aren't that expensive. Where I live they are $7-12. If you want some tetra's with the apisto's they attack the food!


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

haha yeah but i dont really want any tetras. i would like to go all cichlid and catfish on this tank. i have plenty of tetras in one of my other tanks lol *** just never kept african cichlids before and i would like to go all out with them llol the only problem is is that i dont know where to start with fish lol everytime i find a fish i like i cant pronounce the name right or my lfs doesnt have them :/


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## Pizzle (May 24, 2011)

Lamprologus multifasciatus is a good beginner tang in my opinion. I have five of them and they are fun to watch. The thing that makes them easy is that they don't kill each other like alot of other Tangs. I have read that they go well with Altolamprologus compressiceps or Altolamprologus calvus. I think that you could add a third species in there too but I don't know which one to suggest. I have no experience with plecos so I can't offer advice on that. You could have plants but with Tangs there is often alot of digging so plants that you can tie to rocks or wood are easiest. I have seen Anubias and Java fern used.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

fishowner1 said:


> so i have a 75 gallon that is cycled and i want to put lake tanganyika cichlids in it. i still need to add a lot more rocks still and a few shells. also i was wondering if i could put a clown pleco and a rubber pleco in my tabk with the cichlids? would the ph be to high for them? also could i put a few plants in the tank with them? and my final question is what are some good begginer cichlids that have pretty colors and will get along?


Hi! Welcome to the One True Lake (just kidding!). Lake Tang has some awesome species to offer -- be forwarned though, Tanganyikans tend to be a bit subtler in coloring than their cousins over in Lakes Malawi or Victoria. What they lack in flash, though, they make up for in personality and intriguing behaviors. There are definately some colorful tangs, even colorful tangs that are relatively beginner friendly, but it's not going to be the bright colorfest that a Malawi tank will be. There are also quite a few slightly more difficult species (whether in terms of their fragility, or simply their environmental demands) that can put on an irridescent color show to dazzle with the best of them.

Personally I like L. Multifasciatus, with their big blue eyes and fiesty personalities. There are other shell-dwellers that have some a bit more colour in their bodies, and most of the shell-dwellers tend to be relatively easy keepers. As Pizzle pointed out, they are very tolerant of each other and tend to form colonies, which is unusual for Tanganyikan cichlids.

Another colony-forming fish is N. Brichardi. They are very pretty fish, though again more subtle. No bright yellow bodies, but a rather neat irridescence, and long trailing lyretails. They tend to be rather agressive towards other fish when breeding, though. Some people are able to breed them in multi-species tanks, but other people find that they become too aggressive when they start breeding and they start killing other fish.

If that bright yellow body is what you're looking for, theres L. Leleupi. It's a very attractive fish, imho. They can work well in a tank with other species that can hold their own, but this torpedo-shaped fish with a mouth that can open as wide as it's entire body is decidedly a predator. I had good experience keeping them with shell-dwellers, but mine were not full grown and other people have had VERY bad experiences keeping full grown leleupi with smaller species of shell-dwellers.

L. Julidichromis (or is it N.? I can never keep the lamprologines and the neolamprologines straight) is an often recommended fish for a beginner's tanganyikan "community". They are also torpedo-shaped fish, but they don't have the reputation of a Leleupi. There are 4 flavors, 2 of which tend to be smaller (I want to say transciptus and... I forget if it's regani or ornatus), and the other 2 tend to be larger. They all have interesting black/white striped bodies, with irridescent blue tips to the fins. Very attractive fish to my eye, but you might not call them "colorful". They are rock dwellers that will pair up and defend their territory vigorously, but I don't get the impression that they go roaming the tank looking for trouble.

If I had a 75 gallon tank (and I plan to, eventually -- I love the proportions of that tank), I'd definately have goby cichlids in it. Gobies tend to leave other fish alone (though they will snack on undefended fry, as will almost any cichlid), but they can be vicious to each other once they reach sexual maturity. I've heard lots of stories of starting with 6 gobies, and ending with only one pair, or even only one fish. If you don't have a known pair (and I don't just mean a male and a female), then be prepared to remove any fish that get beat up on too badly. The personality of these little guys is hard to beat, though, and they are so cute. They tend to have irridescent blue spots, though the background can vary depending on the flavor of the goby. Some folks have reported success in a "colony" of gobies, borrowing a trick from the malawi playbook of overstocking to prevent aggression. Personally I am a fan of understocking rather than overstocking, though, so if it were me I'd probably start with 4-6 juvies and aim at a pair. These are awesome fish that any fish store worth its salt should be happy to give you trade credit for if you bring them in.

Some of the more colorful fish that will work out very nicely in a 75 gallon tank are Cyprichromis. They tend to be a little less hardy than others, and some people experience a "wasting" where their cyprichromis slowly die off 1 by 1. Others, however, experience great success and get colonies of cyprichromis with brightly colored males dancing for their harems of silver females. Cyprichromis are very neat imho due to their... I don't know the name, but they can have different colored tails. Some have blue tails, some have yellow tails. Any given batch of babies will usually include both. These are relatively peaceful fish that swim in the upper reaches of the tank, and school. They generally do better in larger numbers. They're also called "sardine cichlids". There are jumbo and not-so-jumbo cyprichromis varients, I'd do a not-so-jumbo varient in a 75. A 6' tank is generally recommended for the jumbos.

If it were my tank? I'd do cyprichormis, a shell-dweller of choice, a goby, and if you felt the need for another species, either a Juli or an Altolamp (calvus or compressiceps). My wife likes the calvus, but they never really grew on me -- personal preference only!

One last question -- you said the tank is cycled, are you doing a fishless cycle? Bravo .

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who needs to quit writing books)


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## Pizzle (May 24, 2011)

Rick, you are on a role today. I really enjoyed reading this book and the book that you previously wrote about removing nitrates. By the way, ornatus is the other small Juli. =D>


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

For a pleco a bushynose ancistrus can't be beat for a cichlid tank.They can handle high pH and even breed in it and they do not get huge.Rubberlips should work too but many of them in the fish stores are not tank raised and can come in with disease.

Great Tanganyikan cichlids for a beginner in a 75g

1)N.multifasciatus or N.similis shell dwellers for the sand bottom

2)A.calvus or compressiceps for rocks

3)Julidochromis regani Kipili Awesome Yellows with stripes!!

4)Down the road after you get some experience with those add a midwater fish such as Paracyprichromis nigripinnis


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

yep i did a fishless cycle! i was looking around the internet yesterday and would buying fish offline be a smart idea? i fond some that i like :Neolamprologus helianthus, Neolamprologus cylindricus, Lamprologus "Ornatipinnis Kigoma, Julidochromis dickfeldi, Cyprichromis leptosoma Blue Orchid "Livua, Altolamprologous calvus (yellow), and LACE CATFISH. i really like the shell dwellers lol i think thy are really cool how they just swim inside shell and how they just look in general just makes me want them lol im not sure which ones of these fish will work but i know some will and i noticed some of the fish Rick was talking about and i was getting excited lol

also these are just the fish the internet store had in stock. im just afraid that my lfs isnt goingt to have a good selection of fish there but when i get my final stocking ill right them down and see if the have them. also how many fish should i get of each? im thinking 5 ( 1m; 3-4f)


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Oh, and one other thing... you want fish that "get along"... you're looking at the wrong family . One of the great things about cichlids though is watching their behavior at territory boundaries. My multifasciatus had a stand-off with the big Leleupi in my tank (we called her Evil Witch)... there was a DMZ with a wall of sand and everything. The little Leleupi lived in the plants on the other side of the shellbed, and sometimes the Multis would make raiding parties... going 2 or 3 together swimming over into his area before getting chased back.

It's definately possible to get a "community" tank where everyone has their own territory, and there is very little bloodshed, but a little tension at the borders isn't necesarily a bad thing 

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

do you think some of the fish i have selected will get along?


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Certainly. I believe the ornatipinnis is a shell-spawner, possibly even dweller... you could easily get away those, the cyps (though I believe blue orchid may be a jumbo? You'd be way better off with a non-jumbo), and at either the juli or the altolamp. You might be able to do a cylindricus, but I'm not sure -- they're kind of like a leleupi, but not yellow. I would assume that they have similar issues with shell-dwellers, but I'm just guessing -- so grab a couple grains of salt!

I believe helianthus are kind of brichardi-esque. If you do your hardscape well, you could probably have the julies AND the altos and the ornatipinnis and a non-jumbo cyp. There are others who far more experience than I though, so hopefully they will chime in.

-Rick (The armchair aquarist, who does more reading than doing, sadly)


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

didnt you say Cyprichromis leptosoma Blue Orchid "Livua" were jumbo and i should stay away from them? if i can have them i would like them, Lamprologus "Ornatipinnis Kigoma, Altolamprologous calvus (yellow), 2 lace catfish, and im stuck between Neolamprologus cylindricus and Julidochromis dickfeldi. i have been told that it wouldnt be smart to keep them together because they look the same but im not sure which one to have which one do you guys like better? lol how many should i get of each of these guys? also if the Cyprichromis leptosoma doesnt work what else could i put in? tell me what yall think


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## darkstar22 (Dec 13, 2010)

Cyprichromis Leptosoma Utinta is a non jumbo, and the males have nice colors!


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

ok so my final stock is:
6-7 Cyprichromis leptosoma Blue Orchid "Livua"
5 Lamprologus "Ornatipinnis Kigoma
5 Altolamprologous calvus (yellow)
5 Julidochromis dickfeldi
1 rubber pleco
maybe 1 clown pleco? do you think he could stand the high ph?


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Hi! Sorry I wasn't clear earlier -- you can certainly try the Blue Orchid "Livua", but honestly I wouldn't. I'd go with a larger number of a smaller cyp. leptosoma, such as "Utinta" or "Blue Flash". Isanga is also quite attractive (the photo I just saw resembled a "Blue Flash" -- and may very well be the same fish), as are Karilani, Kerenge, Mamalesa (Wow!), Mpulungu... well, you get the idea . There are some varients I personally don't care for, but most of them are very attractive.

Here's a site that lists a bunch of flavors, and sorts them by non/jumbo and jumbo : 
http://www.kwas.ca/forum/showthread.php ... omis-types

There may also be a list here on the cichlid-forums, but I don't have time to go looking for it right now.

I can't speak to the pleco's, but the rest of the list looks good. Keep in mind that you're starting with 5 (presumably juvenile) fish of each species, but may only end up with a single pair of each type as they mature. Be prepared to remove any fish that get too beat up as they mature. You might be able to sustain more than 3 adult pairs down on the substrate, but it will depend on the hardscape and the particular fish you end up with. Believe me though, if you get any (much less all 3) species breeding, a single pair of each will give you plenty of entertainment! I'd rather see 6 fish in my aquarium and watch them raise their babies than have a few dozen, but no breeding.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)

P.S. I believe all of your substrate dwellers will protect their fry until they get big enough (or perhaps until they spawn again), but I don't believe the cyprichromis do much for their fry once they spit them out (granted, by the time a cyp spits the baby is alot bigger than a fresh-born wiggler). With 3 other species in the tank if you want to actually grow out the cyps in any significant number you may have to raise the babies in a separate tank)


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

ok sounds good but one question. why do you say not to have the blue orchid? also how big do the jumbos get? also would any of these guys work: Cyprichromis Microlepidotus Kasanga or 
Cyprichromis Blue Flash? i know you said the blue flash would but would these guys school any?


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

The blue orchid is a jumbo flavor of cyprichromis, which not only gets bigger, but I've heard can be more aggressive as well. They simply need more room than a 4' tank provides.

I don't know much about the micros, but other folks will hopefully chime in. The Blue flash would work well, and should school nicely for you.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

i see what your saying now. how many Blue Flash or Cyprichromis Microlepidotus Kasanga could i have?


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## mrs.som (Nov 14, 2009)

fishowner1 said:


> i see what your saying now. how many Blue Flash or Cyprichromis Microlepidotus Kasanga could i have?


According to what I've read in the Library, you need at least 12 cyps. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cyprichromis.php


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

ok well i think im going to go with th e blue flashes as they are a little bit chewaper and still have nice coloring. but could i fit 12 of them in my tank?


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## mrs.som (Nov 14, 2009)

Not a tang expert here, but I want to say yes. Hopefully someone else will jump in and confirm.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

fishowner1 said:


> ok well i think im going to go with th e blue flashes as they are a little bit chewaper and still have nice coloring. but could i fit 12 of them in my tank?


In a 75? absolutely. You could probably do 18 with no problem. I suspect the limiting factor is going to be your wallet 

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

is this counting my other fish also or just the blue flashes? and yes my wallet is full one moment and then i goto the lfs saying to myself "dont spend to much!" but them i come out 30 min later with an empty wallet but a happy face lol


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

so yes or no?....


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

18 was just the blue flash, the others will presumably start with a handful of juvies and end with a pair.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

ok so i should buy a lot and then once i ge t my pairs i should sell them?


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## illinois9er (Oct 20, 2004)

In a 4 foot tank you could easily go 20+ on alot of your cyps. I currently have 21 kitumba cyps in a 75 and all is good. Pretty much a rule of thumb with cyps is, the more the merrier. I recently had a group of 23 neon tail in a 55 with no ill will towards each other, I believe the collection point was kabwimba. I'm thinking of doing my 125 with 30-40 specklebacks but haven't told my wife about it yet lol.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

fishowner1 said:


> ok so i should buy a lot and then once i ge t my pairs i should sell them?


Most people reccomend 4-6 juvies to increase the odds of having at least 1 of each sex (87.5% for 4 and 96.875% for 6)

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

ok so here is my final stock:
Julidochromis dickfeldi (5)
Lamprologus "Ornatipinnis Kigoma" (5)
Red Dorsal Caudopunctatus (5)
blue flash (12)
rubber pleco (1)
clown pleco (1)
maybe two pictus cats?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

With the two plecos I think the cats are two much.


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

Ok sounds good I was just wondering. Can you tell me what you guys feed your African cichlids? All I have is these sinking cichlid pellets, "extreme flakes", and algae wafers. I just bought 5 red dorsals last Wednesday. They all look really good but they don't really swim to much for some reason. Why is that? There is only one of them that will actually swim out if the group. They are about 1.5" and they have really nice coloring. What could it be?


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

Would buying fish off the internet be a good idea? If so what are some good websites? Also how long does it take for African cichlids to get full grown?


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## Pizzle (May 24, 2011)

Nothing wrong with buying fish off of the internet. Be prepared for a large shipping fee. But if you did a fishless cycle then you can add your entire stock all at once which makes the shipping fee seem reasonable. Check out the reviews section of this site.


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

yeah well i have two plecos an 5 red dorsals in my tank now so could i still buy them al at once or no? i read the review page and it said Bluegrass aquaics and live fish direct were pretty good and they wre the places i was thinking about buyiing so i guess ill try them out. hopefully i can get some good quality fish not just the the ones they have left over if you know what im saying.


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## Pizzle (May 24, 2011)

I missed the post when you updated the thread with the news that you had gotten some fish in the tank. I like those punks and I think I will get some soon (after I set another tank up). When did you add them and the plecos?

When you did the fishless cycle, you added more ammonia than a reasonable amount of fish would produce, so in theory, you could have added the entire stock at once. Now I suspect that the fish are producing less ammonia than what the bacteria were used to getting during the fishless cycle so the bacteria are probably slowly dieing off until they get into equilibrium with the amount of fish waste that is available to consume. The question is: how much of the original bacteria colony is still kicking? I think that you could still add the entire stock to complete the tank but after adding new fish to the tank you should carefully monitor ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates to see that they donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t get too high and kill or damage the fish. You may need to do frequent water changes until the bacteria get into equilibrium with the amount of waste available. Try to keep ammonia and nitrite below .5ppm.


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## fishowner1 (Jul 15, 2011)

I got the plexos about two weeks after I cycled my tank and then I got the red dorsals last Wednesday. I really like them but for some reason mine don't swim around that much. I'm not sure why. There colors are really nice though and they love bloodworms lol I fed them some last night and they were stuffing there mouths full of them lol they would have half the hanging out of there mouth lol I really like them though. I can't wait to get my other fish. Should I use tetra safe start before I pit my fish in?


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