# High Nitrates



## smillar (Nov 26, 2007)

I really need help to move Nitrate lower and as quick as is safe.

I didn't know to do 25% water changes, but have done two since I found out.
1st on Monday and 2nd on Friday.

We have electric heat and I add roughly 1 gallon weekly due to evaporation.

I have a 75 gallon. 
1 Eheim 2213, 2 AquaClear 1x20,1x70, 1 Fluval 3.

2 Oscars
1 Cobalt
2 baby Jack Dempsey
1 Pleco
1 Clown Loach
3 hybrid convicts

I have 2 Yellow Labs in a 20 gallon waiting for the water to improve
I gave away 3 fish
I am feeding less

I tried adding a plant, but that was uprooted quickly and was being shredded by the Oscars.
I want to get this fixed asap, as it is clearly my fault for not knowing to change the water.


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## akapaul26 (Sep 6, 2007)

The only way you are ever gonna get your nitrates under control is to get rid of about 90% of your stock. With just one oscar and the cons you are fully stocked. If the cons breed then you are gonna be in trouble. When all those fish are full grown if they live that long you will be looking at 50% daily water changes to keep things in line.


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2007)

I don't think that 50% daily water changes will be necessary, but I would certainly take a step back and look at the stock list. The fish you have in there will certainly kill each other sooner rather than later, and they have different water requirements. I'd look into at least a 125 in addition to the 75 that you have.

They have nitrate absorbing chips that you can put into your filter that would help to reduce nitrates, or you could get a floating plant like duckweed that grows like well, a weed. That would quickly absorb nitrates too.

Keep doing water changes. If your tap parameters aren't too far off your tank water parameters, you could do a 50% change daily until you get your nitrates down to a more manageable amount.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Short Term:

I would keep up with the water change schedule you have startedâ€¦ 25% change every few days. When nitrates build up the PH commonly drops. Changing too much water too quick may cause a PH swing that could kill a stressed fish (and overstocking and dirty water both cause stress).

Long Term:

I agree with the posts above that your tank is overstocked. A properly stocked tank is far easier to maintain and the fish show their happiness with vibrant colors, increased activity and more interesting social dynamics.

I suggest you look at all your fish and pick your favorite. Then we could offer some ideas of which fish to keep and which fish to return, or what additional tank you may want to set up to house the â€œextraâ€


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## smillar (Nov 26, 2007)

take out 90% of my fish? 
WOW!!...that was such a scary response that I could not even write back!

I will get rid of the Pleco, and sadly the clown loach, as they are both larger.
Also, two more of the hybrids could go without me being too sad.

Then, if that doesn't help, I guess one of the Oscars would need to go as they are the biggest of all.

Thay all get along well, so that doesn't seem to be a problem.
I cleaned everything again today.

I cannot add another tank, my hydro bill would not handle that! 
But maybe if I moved up to a bigger tank that would help. 
Transferring the fish would be stressful, but if I did it fast, maybe it would work.
Are there better ways to do that? thanks, Sandra


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## barbarian206 (Apr 2, 2008)

hi im new to the cichlid world i was having problems with high nitrates could not get them below 40ppm a freind of mine told me to put phos-x in my filter i have a fluval 305 in a 55gallon tank i do 25 percent water changes a week its been 5 days now so i decided to check nitrates and so far there down to 20ppm with out a water change i will be changing the water tomarrow hope this helps i have 9 rift lakes in the tank gl.


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## MetalHead06351 (Oct 3, 2007)

the pleco and loach shouldn't be given away, they won't cause a problem stockwise, you have way too many cichlids. You could get away with any of the following along with the pleco and loach, imo: 1 oscar and 1 jd , or you could do the 2 jds, or 1 jd and the 3 convicts, not sure about the cobalt, isn't it african? But I personally wouldn't keep africans with new worlds, but people do it all the time. Maybe someone else with more experience with them could suggest a stocklist including him and your other africans. But your fish will be much happier with the space they need and not kill each other, which they will start to do very soon. And if you think your tank would look too empty without all those fish, dithers are great for that. You could get a school of tetra, barbs, danios, or something like rainbows or silver dollars.
Having said all that, I personally would go with 1 jd and the 3 cons. Keep the loach and pleco and add 10 giant danios, that would be a tank anyone would be happy with. Oh, and as far as nitrates, duckweed does an awesome job like was eaelier suggested. Your cichlids will even ocassionaly eat some which is healthy. Good luck with your tank and please ask any other questions you might have, we all love to help. :thumb:


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## smillar (Nov 26, 2007)

barbarian206 said:


> phos-x in my filter
> 
> *** I live in Toronto Canada, does anyone know where I could buy phos-x?
> 
> ...


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## smillar (Nov 26, 2007)

MetalHead06351 said:


> the pleco and loach shouldn't be given away, they won't cause a problem stockwise,
> *** Can you help me understand why they are o.k.? The are big-ish, so I thought I would get two small pleco and hope they eat more, as this one is lazy!? The loach is thick, but he is so nice, I hate to give him away-especially to a store!
> 
> you have way too many cichlids. You could get away with any of the following along with the pleco and loach, imo: 1 oscar and 1 jd , or you could do the 2 jds, or 1 jd and the 3 convicts, not sure about the cobalt, isn't it african?
> ...


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2007)

Getting a 90 wouldn't help with aggression at all. Cichlids are generally footprint-based. You'd be best off getting a 6 foot tank.

Africans should not be kept with new world cichlids for many reasons. NW cichlids need softer lower ph water, and many of the other fish you keep are carnivorous or require higher levels of protein in their diets. The cobalt needs a diet higher in veggies, and it's difficult to feed fish in the same tank different things. The African's require hard, high pH water to thrive, so you could find a middle ground, but neither the Africans or the New Worlds would thrive.

Just because the fish aren't problems now doesn't mean that they won't be later. When they become sexually mature, you'll have completely different fish on your hands. You could build a nice malawi tank if you wanted to get rid of everything but the loach, pleco, cobalt, and labs, or drop the Africans altogether, and follow the advice of metalhead. The pleco and loach are large biomass, but nitrates can be easily "remedied," whereas stock lists need to be well thought out. Your stock isn't the cause of your nitrates yet, it's your maintenance. You can certainly try keeping all of the fish in this tank together, but you'll probably end up with dead, sick and suffering fish, which in my opinion is animal abuse.


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## smillar (Nov 26, 2007)

Laurel said:


> Getting a 90 wouldn't help with aggression at all. Cichlids are generally footprint-based. You'd be best off getting a 6 foot tank.
> *** darn, that is not going to happen, as I have to go taller, not longer because of the space I have.
> 
> Africans should not be kept with new world cichlids for many reasons. NW cichlids need softer lower ph water, and many of the other fish you keep are carnivorous or require higher levels of protein in their diets. The cobalt needs a diet higher in veggies, and it's difficult to feed fish in the same tank different things. The African's require hard, high pH water to thrive, so you could find a middle ground, but neither the Africans or the New Worlds would thrive.
> ...


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## smillar (Nov 26, 2007)

*Laurel* I see you have a Metriaclima callainos - how long do they live?


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## Kribensis12 (Mar 27, 2008)

Is your tank cycled? How long has it been set up?


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## smillar (Nov 26, 2007)

Kribensis12 said:


> Is your tank cycled? How long has it been set up?


Yes, I have had it for about 2 years. Before that I had a 40gal, which is now in storage, that I used to keep guppies in.

The only thing that is different is that roughly two months ago- I cleaned up an old Eheim we had not used for about 4 years and added it.


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## Kribensis12 (Mar 27, 2008)

Did you leave the other filter in there also? If not your tank could quite possibly be cycling. Can you give me your water stats? Like everyone else said you tank is over stocked, i would keep your fav oscar and keep a demspy or 2, that would be pushing it. I would rid of the pleco as they get real big( even in the big tank, it's still not good to keep them in anything less than 100g) and they poop more than they eat.


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## smillar (Nov 26, 2007)

Kribensis12 said:


> Did you leave the other filter in there also?
> *** Yes, I have two Aquaclear 70 plus a internal fluvel 3 (which I think is virtually useless)
> Each filter has double sponge and one has a bio media while the other an amonia.
> 
> ...


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## Kribensis12 (Mar 27, 2008)

Plecos only eat algea until they get about 4 inches long in my and many other peoples experince, they prefer to eat the stuff off the bottom. I would look into something else like chines algea eaters as they do a slightly better job. Or just scrub the tnak down once in a while, thats what i do.


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## smillar (Nov 26, 2007)

Kribensis12 said:


> Plecos only eat algea until they get about 4 inches long in my and many other peoples experince, they prefer to eat the stuff off the bottom. I would look into something else like chines algea eaters as they do a slightly better job. Or just scrub the tnak down once in a while, thats what i do.


Yes, I can tell he isn't eating it...
Sorry to bother you with more questions, but what do you scrub it down with?


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## smillar (Nov 26, 2007)

smillar said:


> I have a 75 gallon with 1 Eheim 2213, 2 AquaClear 2x70, 1 Fluval 3.
> *Would more filtration help?*
> 
> 2 Oscars -* I will find someone to take one of these*
> ...


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## Kribensis12 (Mar 27, 2008)

Your tank will be better, but unless you get a bigger one, you will have to prune your stocking list some more. I would almost turn this tank into a big Mbuna tank. That means you NEED to overstock, not understock! Plus, Yellow Labs are Mbuna.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Laurel said:


> NW cichlids need softer lower ph water, and many of the other fish you keep are carnivorous or require higher levels of protein in their diets.


New world cichlids are just as varied in terms of the water chemistry they come from, as African cichlids. In Africa, cichlids come from everything from extremely acidic and soft to extremely basic and hard and everything in between. While many South American cichlids come from soft acidic water, you will find almost as varied water chemistry through out the entire continent of South America. Of course, Jack dempsey and convicts are not South American but Central American. While it is possible to find soft acidic water in Central America it is not common whatsoever, and in fact the majority of water bodies are very basic and hard. For example Jack Dempseys often come from water in the pH high 7's into the mid 8's and water that can be MUCH harder then lake malawi. Regardless, the vast majority of tank raised fishes will do well in most pH ranges as long as stability is maintained. All these cichlids mentioned will do well in pH 7.6 and if the water is very hard or somewhat hard, should be easy to maintain stability.

All the cichlids mentioned are omnivores. All the fishes mentioned will do well with the vast majority of pellet brands. All require some plant as well as animal matter in their diets. Fish meal and/or Krill are the first ingredients of most pellets, even such brands as NLS which are marketed more towards rift lake cichlid keepers. The reason they are the first ingredients, is that these fishes need it just as well; although it may make up less of their diets in the wild, nutrition wise, it is the more significant part of their diets.

If you have a nitrate problem do a 50% or more water change once a week and vacum the substrate. This will keep it in check. I use a garden hose for water changes and when I use to use gravel, which I no longer in any tanks, I used a cut off 355 ml pop bottle to vacum substrate. I dechlorinate with prime before and as I am filling, based on the entire volume of the tank, and put new tap water directly into the the tank. Not 100% ideal, but has always worked well for me. All the cichlids return to normal behavoir with in minutes of completing the water change.

I'd get rid of the oscars for sure. To big and messy for this tank. I'd get rid of 1 JD and CULL 2 convicts ( if they are hybrids). Keep everything else. Add a CAE ( chinese algae eater) and some more yellow labs; maybe add a jewel cichlid. Remove fish should you encouter aggression problems but in all likely hood, your tank should work fine. Of course just mbuna,( removing the JD and/or con) is also an option.

A pleco adds to the biomass no more then any other fish. If they did not eat, they would not produce fish waste. What they eat is already in the system. A bottom feeder performs a usefull service by eating uneaten food, as uneaten food is potentially more unhealthy for an aquarium, then fish waste.


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## akapaul26 (Sep 6, 2007)

As stated earlier in this thread it's not a good Idea to keep New World cichlids with Africans. You have been given good advise in this thread. I would either keep the Oscar and 2 Electric Blues which will be ok for a while if you plan to upgrade and get rid of the rest. Or keep the labs and the colbalt, get rid of the rest of the fish and add about 20-25 more Mbuna to the tank. Personally I would turn it in to a Mbuna tank. You could also keep the JD's and the cons and get rid of everything else. Either way to have a sucessful setup and keep your tank parameters in check with out extreme maintnance you are going to have to get rid of most of your stock or get another larger tank 125g or bigger and split some up.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

akapaul26 said:


> As stated earlier in this thread it's not a good Idea to keep New World cichlids with Africans.


Fine. I realize there are differences in perspective. But give me some GOOD reasons, not bolgna like water parameters or diet which are gross generalizations that are most often untrue.

I've been mixing for over 30 years and it has always worked well for me. The not mixing new world and old world cichlids is a perspective coming from rift lake cichlid keepers who have less reason to mix the two. Many new world cichlid keepers will mix the two. Tilapias and jewels are just as much an African and most cichlids are not "special" just because it comes from a certain river or lake. It can make a lot of sense when you have aggressive new worlds that do not coexist well with their own "type" over the long run.


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## barbarian206 (Apr 2, 2008)

african rift lake cichlids m,arautus, red zebra, kenyi, yellow lab, bumble bee, albino socolofi, yellow tail acei, etc... im new here but my lps told me these were african rift lake cichlids .


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

bernie comeau said:


> The not mixing new world and old world cichlids is a perspective coming from rift lake cichlid keepers who have less reason to mix the two.


This may be a gross generalization.


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Darkside said:


> bernie comeau said:
> 
> 
> > The not mixing new world and old world cichlids is a perspective coming from rift lake cichlid keepers who have less reason to mix the two.
> ...


Yes, very true, it is a gross generalization that isn't nessessarily true. Lot's of different ways and perspectives amongst those who keep the same fish. And lot's of aquarists don't mix, not because they know such tanks can't work well, but because they find tanks with fishes from different parts of the world to be in "bad taste".

But the majority of mbuna tanks contain fishes from completely different and isolated parts of the lake. Lake malawi is a very big lake, and most often many of these species will never see each other in their natural habitat. EVER! So in most instances, such a tank is a kind of a mix as well. Compatibility is generally what is considered when stocking any tank; mbuna no different. And the vast majority of tropical fish tanks are mixes of some sort; plecos, algae eaters and many loaches, for example, are not only NOT found in lake malawi, they are not from the same continent. No real difference mixing any fishes, then mixing cichlids.

If you use unaltered regular tap water, what's the difference? If the rift lake cichlid keeper feeds the same brand and type of pellet as the New world keeper, what's the difference?

Ultimately, your major consideration is compatibility. And many of us who have mixed for years know that in many instances, African and CA/SA can be more compatible over the long run then they are with their own kind or similar fishes. Yes of course many mbuna tanks do work well,n o doubt. But I have seen enough of them with fish getting the **** chased out of them and other fish up in the corners :lol: to know that not all mbuna tanks work well. Aggression can be a problem in african cichlid tanks, as bloat is a fairly common ailment amongst african cichlids and very often has to do with stress from aggression. But yes, I think there is more reason for a new world keeper to at least consider some kind of mix as an option. My male salvini, for example, co-exists on the right side of my tank with a male auratus. On rare ocasion he chases the auratus out of his way a couple of inches, at the most but otherwise could care less about the auratus. How many SECONDS do you think my male black belt or male cons could tresspass on the right side of the tank before my male sal nails them hard? :lol: And if I pulled out my African T. zilli out of the tank, the whole tank would EXPLODE into extreme CA violence! :lol:


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

oops, double post.


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## smillar (Nov 26, 2007)

So, an update on my water condition:
Been continuing my water changes-about 3 every two weeks.
Adding Prime. 
I thought that people were serious about the lovely smell - so I took a sniff! Never again!
I took one Oscar and the pleco to my LFS
The 2nd Oscar lay on the sand and looked at me with big sad eyes!
Bought a tiny pleco and a Chinese Algae eater, who looks nibbled on already!
Plus gave 3 of the hybrids to a friend who has a smaller tank, but no fish.

Things are much better - and before I add new little fish I may still consider taking the other Oscar out too...we'll see. thanks for all your help, Sandra


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## akapaul26 (Sep 6, 2007)

I just said not a good Idea, not impossible. The problem with this thread is he is already having troubles with water parameters. He is also having trouble with his stock. I didn't want to advise to keep Africans and New worlds to someone who obivously is having stocking troubles now. Why give him more grief of finding a mix of new worlds and Africans that might or might not work out. We all know when dealing with cichlids all bets are off.



bernie comeau said:


> akapaul26 said:
> 
> 
> > As stated earlier in this thread it's not a good Idea to keep New World cichlids with Africans.
> ...


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