# Water Softner and pH



## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

My whole house is hooked up to a water softner and there is no way to bypass it. I have crush coral and gravel as substrate but want to make the switch to PFS. If I remove the crush coral and gravel and add the PFS it will definitely lower my pH. What are some ways to keep the pH high? I have 2 Emperor 400 filters maybe I could add some different media in there to keep the pH high? :-? [/b]


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Baking soda -> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

thanks :dancing:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Usually there is a bypass, even if it is an outside faucet. You could also put the crushed coral in your filters to replace a large portion of the filter media.


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

I will out both ways and see which one I like better. About how much sand (PFS) should I put in a 75G? Will those toxic gases be a issue as others say? Can I make it deep?


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Most softeners I have worked on do have a bypass built into the top of the unit. Without a bypass there is no way to maintain the unit if it needs to be changed out. It is often just a set of valves to close so the water coming into the unit is shunted straight to the output. Be aware that it still leaves the water in the pipes from the softener to whatever faucet soft until you run it out.


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

My softener does have a bypass valve but its a little time consuming to bypass it and run the water out b/c of the location of the unit. I will most likely use the buffer recipe or crush coral in the filter media. You know how much sand for a 75G is enough? I wanted the front of the tank to be high with substrate so it looks eye candy and hide some of my lower scratches.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I find one bag of PFS will do for a 75 but not too deep. I've ditched the bag so I can't say what size bag. Bought it at Lesley's and it seems a standard size bag.


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

I just washed one bag really well its 50lbs, will try that first


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Might do it for your preference. I just used two bags for a new 125 setup. For me it is enough. Now to see how the fish like it and how much they move it around.


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

yea I will just use like one bag maybe a little bit more and go from there....gonna do the change tomm will try to post some pics when everything is said and done....hope all goes well wish me luck


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I do wish you luck with the changeover. That can get to be work! I also don't like dragging buckets of water around so chose my fish room carefully this time. A spare bedroom backing up to the wall where the softener is in the garage. I cut the line going into the softener and added a pipe through the wall so that I have raw water in the fishroom. Puts a whole new spin on water changing when I don't have to adjust the water.


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

Did the switch today and all went well it looks awesome will post some pics soon...just hope the tank doesn't recycle. I used the same tank water and havent touched the 2 Emperor 400. Tank is very hazy but getting there with time and more turnovers from the filters. I like your setup very genius. I want to add some baking soda to raise the pH know how much?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What is the pH now? What is the pH from your tank?


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

not sure as of now going to do a water test tomorrow...but usually in the past its off the chart wanna say like 8.0+


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Well definitely don't add baking soda then. Hopefully the pH before you did the substrate change is a match for the pH when you refilled the tanks. If not...too late now!


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

What do you mean by too late now? I saved my old water in a 55 gallon drum and refilled my tank with the same water after putting in PFS. All fish are doing fine.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would have been too late if the pH did not match. Since you used the same water, it would have to match, right?


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

Yes, so far so good I had to keep the old water since it has the good stuff in it. But will the pH drop after time? How can I keep it high from here on out? Should I touch the Emperor filters?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Test your water from the tap and after 24 hours. Then test your tank water.

If your tap water is a lower pH than the tank, your fish can tolerate a change of 0.2 at a time with your weekly water changes, but don't go below pH=7.8 and GH=7.

I would not use water from a softener for changes...who knows what else is in there that we are not measuring?

Once you hit 7.8 in the tank...if your tap is still lower than that I would add baking soda to the change water only to make it 7.8 as well to maintain that level.

As Prov explains, really the concern is KH so get a tester for that as well and report results for KH along with pH.


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

ok I will test both the tank and water out of my faucet both for pH and KH....I can't really bypass my water softener its a pain lol...but it can be done! If I do weekly water changes will the pH and KH stay high?


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I can see lots of times when bypassing the softener might not work but there might also be another way. It is pretty standard practice to leave the outside faucets untreated rather than waste the salt treating water used for the yard. Any chance you have an outside faucet you could test for hard water? Kind of a bummer to pay to soften water and then pay again to replace the hardness. If you have already looked at this, Sorry, just trying to save you some.


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

When I installed my water softener I hooked it up to my main water line coming in from the street so the whole house is basically filtered. I also did a water test today of both my tank water and tap water. Everything tested out normal. The pH is 8.0+ and the KH was around 11. The tap water tested out to also have a pH around 7.0 and KH was like at a 9. I did add some shells to the tank to try and keep the water hard. The fish are doing fine and the tank looks awesome. Haven't touched the filters gonna let them run to build back up more BB. Any other cool specimen I can add to the tank like to play in the sand or any cool odd balls?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Guess you will be stuck with baking soda if you are forced to use the softened water.


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

It shouldn't be a problem I will monitor water chemistry more and also the pH any cool oddballs you like that will play in the sand?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Your peaocks will play in the sand. Not sure what you are looking for.


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## Cichfish (Jul 15, 2003)

was thinking maybe some dwarf puffers or nerite snails....doesnt have to b a fish


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have found nerite snails to be OK with peacocks, but they don't play in the sand. Other inverts I have tried or read about have a hard time with cichlids.


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