# Geophagus Surinamensis or Altifrons?



## NW Lover

I purchased these as Wild Surinamensis from the Cichlid Exchange. I was told by some of you they are Altifrons. What do you think? I have fish sold to me as Altifrons and Surinamensis and they look different.


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## NW Lover




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## NW Lover




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## DeadFishFloating

G'day *NW Lover*,

Ahhh, this is a time when I wished I hadn't sold my copy of South American Eartheaters. Anyway. There are many regional variants of Altifrons, there are also many undescribed geos that look similar to altifrons and are grouped with Altifrons with the addendum that "they look like G sp. altifrons but have yet to be described".

Both geo's you have there look like Altifrons. I might even hazard to guess from my memory of the Eartheater book, that the alti in the second post looks like either an altifron from the Rio Xingu or Rio Tapajos.


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## gage

oh man, another one, I can assure you they are not true _G. surinamensis_. But we need a location point to know for sure... at least I do...


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## DeadFishFloating

G'day *gage*,



gage said:


> Look like _Geophagus dicrozoster_ to me.


You sure? The fish from the second and third post (same photo) certainly looks like an G. altifrons "Rio Xingu". And I'd hazard a guess that the fish from the first post are are juvenile/young adult Geophagus altifrons "Tocantins" (Variant 1).

Check the variants from this link eartheatersaustralia - Geophagus altifrons

I've seen both species first hand, and that's what they look like to me.


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## DeadFishFloating

G. altifrons "Rio Xingu".









Geophagus altifrons "Tocantins" (Variant 1).


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## Chromedome52

Just for DFF, I pulled out my copy of South American Eartheaters (_Sold it!?! _Shame on you! :lol: ). The widely separated and distinct iridescent horizontal lines, combined with the spot pattern in the tail, actually match a photo of _Geophagus altifrons _from Manaus better than the Xingu or Tocantins populations, where the lines are not as widely separated or distinct. Your Aussie website has a completely different fish as the Manaus population. However, shipments from Manaus are fairly common, and can also be from widely varied locations, as fish are collected over an enormous area and concentrated at Manaus for export.

True _G. surinamensis _are distinguished from _altifrons _primarily by the lateral spot, which is clear and distinct on suri but faint or absent on alti. Your fish have faint spots, so clearly fall under the _altifrons _group.

"Surinamensis" is an industry catch all name that goes back 25-30 years; before that, they were often called "Jurupari" along with the _Satanoperca _species! They are ALL still shipped out of SA as wild "Surinamensis". Corrected identifications only happen after they get to experienced hobbyists, and these are often difficult because we lack point of origin.


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## DeadFishFloating

Thanks *Chromedome52*. :thumb:

I knew they looked very much like one of the main altifron variants featured in South American Eartheaters. I do see what you mean by how wide spread and defined the lines are.

Well since I sold my geos, I had to fund my purchase of Dr. Uwe Romers' Cichlid Atlas 1 somehow.


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## NW Lover

The pics do not show how red these fish really are. I like them no mater where or what they are. I sure am glad I switched from Rift Lake Cichlids!! I have a new order of five more Wild Sur, I mean Altifrons and five Wild Red Head Topajos comming. I will ask for the collection data. Thanks for the help. It seems to me the Wild cought Eartheaters are very rugged. The Wild Malawi Peacocks I used to keep always wasted away over time.


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## gage

I only said G. dicrozoster because they appear to have that Y shaped bar in the back half of the fish, though it is hard to tell through all that color


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## edburress

Just wanted to add... _G. altifrons_ abdominal spot covers a maximum of 4 scales, usually only 2-3. More than that is not true _altifrons_.


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## mwaxler

Hi There,

I realize this post is a bit old. I am looking to purchase Geo. Surinamensis or Altifrons. Where are you buying yours from? I have had the worst time finding them

Thank you,

Matthew


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