# Wet Dry Filter Size For a 225 Gal.



## solgood (Sep 23, 2009)

I picked up a 225 gal. acrylic tank with a large built in center tank over flow today.  :thumb: Im planning on housing large Haps in the tank. But I need help :-? How big of a wet dry do I need to build "size _X_X_" and how many gph pump"s" will I need? I will be using sand as a substrate. Tanks is 72â€


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

To size the pump you need to give the diameter and number of overflow tubes.

I use a 40 G breeder for a sump/ fuge on a 210G. The breeder tanks are not too high and give some room under the stand to work with.

Go a bit larger with the pump than your overflows can handle and divert any excess back to the sump and you will be able to quiet down the system. In hindsight I should have used a Mag24 instead of a Mag18 so I now supply a UV with a seperate pump to get more flow.


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## solgood (Sep 23, 2009)

There are 2 overflow tube at 1.25" ID and the bulkheads are 1" ID. There are 2 output tube at .75" ID and the bulkheads are .75" ID. The output tubes go straight up the overflow and out on both sides. The overflow size is about 8"X5"X8", the overflow only has cutouts on 3 sides "2 sides are 8 and 1 is 5". I think I will be using a 40 breeder as a sump and 2 Mag 1800s. Will this be to much GPH for the sump or the overflow?

Thanks for your help :thumb:


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

I am sorry if I am a bit confused. I understand it you have two 1.25" ID overflow tubes flowing down to the sump. The bulkheads are the plumbing fixtures that mount to the tank and prevent leaks. Then you have two 0.75" return tubes from the sump back to the tank.

A 1.25" overflow can flow ~900 GPH gravity fed. A 1.0" overflow will allow ~ 600 GPH gravity fed.

Alowing for head loss you will need a pump somewhere around 1800 gph if you are using (2) 1.25" ID overflow tubes.


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## solgood (Sep 23, 2009)

Sorry

Yes the bulkheads are 1" ID, so only 1200 GPH? The tubes going from the bulkheads to the sump are 1.25 ID".


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

If your (2) overflow tubes are 1 inch inside diameter you will be draining 1200 GPH.

I am using two 1 inch megaflow overflows with my tank setup and the Mag18 was just about right after restriction and head was figured in.


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## solgood (Sep 23, 2009)

The bulkheads are on the bottom of the tank under the overflow "in the center of the tank" The tubes are in the stand to the sump.

Thanks for your time and me being an Amateur


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

Are there drain pipes inside the overflow or just bulkheads at the bottom with no pipes? If there are no pipes inside the overflow you are going have horrendous noise from the water falling from the top of the overflow to the bottom bulkhead. Can you take pictures of inside the overflow?

Pumps aside, I recommend having AT LEAST 15-25% of the display tank volume in the sump at all time. So with your display being 225g the sump IMO should have 33-57 gallons in it while still allowing room for water drain back in case of power outage or pump failure.

As for deciding which pumps to use you have to first decide what you want your hourly turnover rate to be, and then figure out what feet of head you are going to have. That will narrow down to what you need. If you buy a pump that is too fast for your overflows you can always install ball valves on the returns to slow them down.

I must say that is a crappy spot for an overflow. Why companies decide to put them in the middle boggles my mind. Lol.


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## solgood (Sep 23, 2009)

IrkedCitizen said:


> Are there drain pipes inside the overflow or just bulkheads at the bottom with no pipes? If there are no pipes inside the overflow you are going have horrendous noise from the water falling from the top of the overflow to the bottom bulkhead. Can you take pictures of inside the overflow?
> 
> Pumps aside, I recommend having AT LEAST 15-25% of the display tank volume in the sump at all time. So with your display being 225g the sump IMO should have 33-57 gallons in it while still allowing room for water drain back in case of power outage or pump failure.
> 
> ...


Im thinking of making a pair of Durso Standpipes for the overflow to cut back on noise and keep the water level high.

I want to make the sump out of a glass tank and the largest tank i can fit in my stand is a 40 gal. long. If i keep the water level low in the sump when the pump is running im thinking there will be enough room for the water when the system is not under power. TELL ME WHAT U THINK? :-?

I did buy a Mag Drive 24 and will be installing a valve to slow it down.

The overflow is in a weird spot but the tank was made to be viewed from both sides. The nice thing is there is a hole next to the overflow that goes from the top of the tank in to the stand to run all of the cords for the lights. Nothing hanging on the back of the tank.

THANK FOR YOUR HELP :thumb:


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

*TELL ME WHAT U THINK?*

First, I think that has all the potential for a Ã¢â‚¬Å"killerÃ¢â‚¬Â


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

Another option you can check out if the Hofer Gurgle Buster instead of the Durso.

You want to setup your returns so they are barely under the surface of the water. That way if there is a power/pump failure it'll only drain back until siphon breaks. Regardless of how big the sump is you have to know how much water will drain back.

I would set it up so that the bare minimum for the system to work is in the sump, then pull the plug on the return pump and let the water drain back. Once it has done that you will know how much water drains back during a failure. Then fill the sump up almost all the way to the top and then plug the pump back in. Wait until everything equalizes then mark on the sump where the water line is. This will be the maximum amount of water the sump can hold without it overfilling and flooding the floor in case of failure.

Have you had a tank with a sump before?


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## solgood (Sep 23, 2009)

KaiserSousay said:


> *TELL ME WHAT U THINK?*
> 
> First, I think that has all the potential for a Ã¢â‚¬Å"killerÃ¢â‚¬Â


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## solgood (Sep 23, 2009)

IrkedCitizen said:


> Another option you can check out if the Hofer Gurgle Buster instead of the Durso.
> 
> You want to setup your returns so they are barely under the surface of the water. That way if there is a power/pump failure it'll only drain back until siphon breaks. Regardless of how big the sump is you have to know how much water will drain back.
> 
> ...


This will be my first sump, im a sump virgin :lol:


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

I was curious because I was going to tell you how I do water changes on my tanks with sumps.

How do you currently do water changes? Buckets or a python/hose?

I don't keep any of those fish so I cannot comment. Post in the appropriate sections to get better answers.


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## solgood (Sep 23, 2009)

IrkedCitizen said:


> I was curious because I was going to tell you how I do water changes on my tanks with sumps.
> 
> How do you currently do water changes? Buckets or a python/hose?
> 
> I don't keep any of those fish so I cannot comment. Post in the appropriate sections to get better answers.


I use a python on the other tanks


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

Okay.

This is how I do maintenance on my 75 gallon with a sump - My sump is an Oceanic reef ready model 3 wet/dry which is basically a 40g breeder with baffles and a media tray. I run it about half full so I have plenty of space for the drain back in case of failure.

1. I unplug the pump on my wet/dry sump and lift the return line from the water to break the back siphon. I do this so any algae I scrape off the glass that may fog the water doesn't get transfered down to the sump.

2. I take a 50' python hose to drain the tank. 1 end in the tank and run the other end outside or to the basement drain in winter. I suck on the drain end to start the siphon.

3. I clean the bottom of the tank of any and all detritus/debris and scrub the front/side glass of algae. Finish draining the amount of water I want from the display.

4. I take the hose and quickly move it to my wet/dry sump and clean any debris/detritus that may have collected in the bottom. Then I remove most of the water sump. This amount varies each time depending on how much evaporation has taken place.

5. I have several pythons so I hook one 25' python hose to the hot and another 25' python hose to the cold water taps in my laundry room.

6. I add 2.5 caps full of Prime to my sump. That supposedly treats 125 gallons of water my system volume is roughly 100 gallons give or take depending on how much I fill the sump and the evaporation.

7. I put the hose ends from the water taps into the sump and open the valves and adjust them to get the right temperature. This is just a guessing game really. No direct science.

8. If I want to clean my HOB/mechanical filtration I put some of the drained water from my water change into a bucket so I can clean the media. I don't do this every time.

I drain more water out of the main tank than the wet/dry can hold so I have to plug the return pump back in and continue to add more water to the wet/dry as needed until the Display tank is full and water is returning to the wet/dry through the overflow until I reach the measured maximum sump water level I was talking about.

:thumb: :fish:


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

IrkedCitizen said:


> Okay.
> 
> 1. I unplug the pump on my wet/dry sump and lift the return line from the water to break the back siphon.


Drill a hole in the elbow on the return just below the water line, this should break the siphon when power is off so the tank does not drain down to the level of the returns.


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

The tank does not drain that much. That is just how I perform my water changes as to keep as much water in the display tank so that I know exactly what percentage of water I change.

This what my return looks like and how low it sits in the tank. You can see where the holes are positioned in my spray bar. The top holes only sit about 1/2-3/4" below the the surface of the water. So in the event of pump failure or power outage with that return depth and placement of my HOB overflow depth it only drains maybe 2-3 gallons back to the sump. My sump is a 40 breeder that is run half full so it has plenty of room for the drain back. Thus there is no reason to drill a siphon break hole. This isn't my first go around on wet/dry sumps.





































Now if you had a big tank and your return like this guy's you might want to drill a siphon break unless your sump can house all of that water.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 1216338529

:fish:


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

I have found it good practice to err on the side of caution so I have holes in all my return lines below the surface. Also a very good fail-safe if you use a return line as a UGJ.

We have a 270G system set up in our Living Room, I get more water on the floors from the feeding frenzy each night then I have ever gotten from hardware malfunctions.


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

Yeah it is always good to be cautious. But if properly setup they are siphon breaks are not need. The only way I'd get water on my floor from a hardware malfunction is if the tanks themselves sprung a leak or cracked. In that case there really is nothing you could have done anyway.

And yes 100% without a doubt drill siphon breaks if you are running your return through a USJ system. I do not advocate the use of check valves as security from back filling either like some people recommend. Because they fail at the most inopportune times. Many of people have come home to flooded rooms and dead fish because of them failing to close.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

*research, research, research....... TRUST ME i have been doing that*

Big drag for sure.
Do a google and get everything from salt tank set ups to oil pans on drag boats. :lol: 
The hassle will pay off in the end though.


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