# First Tank Cycle 150 gal Help



## Iniquitous (Apr 29, 2010)

After roaming the boards for a while now, I'm finally making my first post. Basically I'm having a problem establishing enough ammonia in my tank to start off the cycling process.

I have a 150 gallon extra high tank (48 in X 24 in X 30 in), a Fluval FX5 filter (filled with two baskets of Biomax and one basket of prefilter), a 250 watt heater, 60 lbs of caribsea super naturals sand, and about 30 lbs of wonder rock.

My idea was to fishless cycle the tank using household ammonia, and so I bought a bottle of Ammonia from Ace Hardware (no dyes, additives, etc) and it has a concentration of 10% ammonia. I read a post from someone who said they used a teaspoon of ammonia to get their 120 gallon at 5ppm, so I started with that. I added 1 tsp of my ammonia, waited an hour, retested the water and got 1ppm of ammonia. So I added another 1 tsp of ammonia, waited an hour, no change. This went on last night until I had added 5 tsp of ammonia total to reach a 2ppm reading on my test kit. This morning I woke up with a 2ppm reading of ammonia and decided to try once again to raise it up a little. I tried twice today- once adding 5 tsp, and a second time adding 10 tsp of ammonia (for a total between the two days of 20 tsp), yet my ammonia kit still reads about 2ppm. I thought perhaps my test kit might be messed up, so I bought a brand new API Ammonia test kit- yet I still get the same results of 2ppm. (And 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates, just in case anyone was wondering).

Should I continue to add 5 or 10 teaspoons of Ammonia until I can raise it up to 5ppm? Or should I just stick with my 2ppm for this cycle? I'm just worried that I'm adding too much ammonia to my tank and that I'll end up messing something up. Has anyone else tried to cycle a similarly sized tank? Does it just take a ton of ammonia to reach 5ppm in a 150 gallon?

Thanks for the help, I need it lol


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Let me whip out a napkin for some quick math...

5ppm = 5mg per liter... you have 150 gallons, lets call it 600 liters. You want a total, then of 3000mg, or 3 grams.

According to wiki, a 35% ammonia solution is 308 g/L... you only have a 10% solution though, which would be 88 g/L.

3g / (88 g/L) = 0.034 L, or 34 mL of solution. at 5mL per tsp... you're looking at 7ish tsp?

That doesn't jive with what you're seeing though, so maybe my math is off.

-Rick


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## Iniquitous (Apr 29, 2010)

Wow thanks for the breakdown, and yeah, it seems logical. Yet no matter which of the two ammonia test kits I use, I still end up with 2/2.5 ppm after 20 tsp of my ammonia.

Do you think I should just be happy with the 2ppm, settle down, and cycle with that? I'm assuming it'll just take a little longer than if I were to bring it to 5ppm. Or should I try another 10 tsp? It just seems like I'm using a pretty hefty amount compared to your math and what everyone else seems to be doing.


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## GotCichlids? (May 21, 2010)

You are trying too hard if you really want to do it just simply go to your LFS and buy your self about 10 feeder goldfish. These will be your lets say sacrificial fish  goldfish are known for their messiness and will provide your tank with plenty of ammonia. If some survive in the end you can just take them back or give them to a friend with a koi pond to live a long life if not oh well they cost you let me see when i did it 27 cents


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I would settle for the 2 or 2.5ppm ammonia reading. There has been some recent conversations on this forum that 5ppm might be too high.

I am one week into my fishless cycle of a 125G (72" x 18" x 23"H) tank. I started with 30ml of Ace Hardware 10% ammonia and after 15 minutes, my API liquid test kit read 4ppm. So I skipped testing the following day. On the 3rd day, I had 0ppm. I added 20ml of ammonia & tested 15 minutes later and had 2ppm. The 4th day I had 0ppm, so again added 20ml of ammonia.

I am probably seeing the quick drop in the ammonia because I transferred a bunch of live plants to the tank. My Nitrite is at 2ppm and the Nitrate was at 40ppm but today dropped to 10ppm. I am attributing these drops to the addition of the plants plus I also added some large pieces of Feather Rock from an established tank.

Try to just maintain the 2ppm ammonia for now. Don't forget to raise the tank temp to around 82F. I have seen this suggested to help speed the cycle somewhat.

Read this http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... c&&start=0


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Should I continue to add 5 or 10 teaspoons of Ammonia until I can raise it up to 5ppm? Or should I just stick with my 2ppm for this cycle


I'm with the others. 2ppm is great. Anything between 1-2ppm will be fine. Precision isn't necessary for this. And 5ppm is way too much. Although your additions and lack of change doesn't make a lot of sense. I've never experienced that. Adding 10 teaspoons and seeing no change is not typical, at least for me.

My Walmart brand ammonia will raise ammonia to 1ppm if I add one drop per gallon. I counted out about 100 drops in a teaspoon. So, if I had your 150 and wanted to get to 2ppm, I'd have added 300 drops or about 3 teaspoons. Adding 10 more teaspoons, as you did, would have raised it another 6.5ppm. The only thing that I can suggest is that those color charts are tough to discern at higher levels. If you're like me, you might want to ask a younger pair of eyes to take a look.


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## Iniquitous (Apr 29, 2010)

prov356 said:


> Although your additions and lack of change doesn't make a lot of sense. I've never experienced that. Adding 10 teaspoons and seeing no change is not typical, at least for me.


I know, that's why I can't seem to understand whats going on lol.



prov356 said:


> The only thing that I can suggest is that those color charts are tough to discern at higher levels. If you're like me, you might want to ask a younger pair of eyes to take a look.


I've actually seen the color change for an 8ppm a few weeks ago when my neighbor's tank went nuts. But I agree with you and I took myself out of the equation by asking three other people what color they thought it was and everyone said the same thing "the 2ppm one" lol.

Thanks for the help guys, I guess I'll stick with the 2ppm (no sense in adding any more when I can't logically see a change).


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## Iniquitous (Apr 29, 2010)

6/15/10 thru 6/22/10
Ammonia 2ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm

6/25/10
Ammonia 1.5ppm
Nitrite 0.25ppm
Nitrate 0ppm

6/26/10
Ammonia 1ppm
Nitrite 5ppm
Nitrate 10ppm

I'm slightly confused. Is it normal to suddenly have a Nitrite reading in 10 days? Especially with a tank this big that I did not seed at all? With all the trouble I had getting the ammonia up when I started, I'm just curious if this data looks off to anyone. I had my younger brother double checking all my tests by the way, just in case my eyes were bias =p


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## aa7jc (Jun 1, 2010)

I like your selection of tanks..
I saw a 110 gallon in the store that is nearly the same except it is only 18 inches instead of 24 inches front to back.
The idea of it being so deep makes me worry a little about maintenance though. 
Fun stuff.. I can see myself buying one.
Did you make your own stand?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Iniquitous said:


> 6/15/10 thru 6/22/10
> Ammonia 2ppm
> Nitrite 0ppm
> Nitrate 0ppm
> ...


Very normal readings for 10 days out without seeding. Expect it to take a few more weeks to finish cycling.


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## aa7jc (Jun 1, 2010)

Regarding cycling a tank with fish in it.. I unwittingly killed my biofilter in my 180 Liter Cichlid tank (Long story). Amonia levels were going nuts so in order to protect my fish, I did LOTS of water changes while the tank cycled. FWIW, I have a RO/DI filter system (from thefilterguys.biz) that makes water changes real easy. Just drain the tank water down a ways and then turn on the RO/DI valve to slowly fill it back up with water more pure than what you can buy from the store.


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## Iniquitous (Apr 29, 2010)

prov356 said:


> Very normal readings for 10 days out without seeding. Expect it to take a few more weeks to finish cycling.


Okay whew, heh thanks.

@aa7jc, Nope I broke down and bought a stand. It was a graduation present to myself lol


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## Iniquitous (Apr 29, 2010)

My Nitrite showed up at 5ppm on the 26th with a Nitrate reading of 10ppm like I mentioned earlier. Its been ten days and my water continues to remain with a Nitrite reading of 5ppm and a Nitrate of 30ppm. Is this slow break down of Nitrite normal? The guy at my LFS said it should be happening quicker, especially with a Nitrate reading same day.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> The guy at my LFS said it should be happening quicker, especially with a Nitrate reading same day.


He's wrong. Don't even test for nitrate. Most nitrate test kits work by first converting nirtrate to nitrite, then measuring nitrite. So, you'll get erroneous results if there is already nitrite in the tank. It's actually giving you nitrite + nitrate. Testing early for nitrate only confuses things.

Yes, nitrite will stay at a high level for an extended period and suddenly drop to 0 within a day or two. That's very normal. It does not drop more quickly. Many start to think the cycle is stalled or something is wrong during this time. It's fine, and very typical. I only test for nitrite every other day or so during this time, so you don't get frustrated with it. It'll go off chart and stay there until you're convinced it's never going to drop, then suddenly it does.

HTH


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## Iniquitous (Apr 29, 2010)

I had no idea the test kit did that, that would explain why I got 'nitrate' reading same day as my sudden nitrite reading. Thank you for the info.

And yeah, I thought the cycle was stuck, feels like it's taking forever to see my nitrites drop =p But you definetly made me feel better about my cycle, appreciate it!


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## Iniquitous (Apr 29, 2010)

Okay so I tested my water again today and I finally had a Nitrite reading of 0ppm! However, I did a Nitrate test and it reads 0ppm too... I was under the impression that I should have a Nitrate reading, no?



> My log is as follows:
> *
> 6/15/10 thru 6/22/10*
> Ammonia 2ppm
> ...


Does this mean my tank is cycled? And if so, any ideas as to how I have a 0ppm reading of Nitrate after my Nitrite went from 5ppm to 0ppm?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

If using the API test, make sure you shake the bottles, tubes, etc for the time indicated in the instructions otherwise you'll get a false 0 reading. There has to be nitrates present, so either a problem with the test or testing method.


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## Iniquitous (Apr 29, 2010)

Edit:

It would seem I didn't shake both the bottle and the test tube long enough for API's liking =p And I feel quite silly. My brother tested the water, shaking both the bottle and the test tube for a minute each, and that seems to have done the trick. Nitrate reading about 20-30ppm.

Guess that means she's cycled


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Just a quick check... did your brother check the nitrite too? If the Nitrate test showed 0 to to insufficient shaking, might the Nitrite have done the same?

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who cheers for the completed cycle, but would hate to put fish in if it's not done yet, so he's asking just in case...)


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## Iniquitous (Apr 29, 2010)

Yeah that was what I thought too. I had him do the Nitrite test twice, both tested 0ppm  Thanks though.


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