# Very New and very lost...



## flippynipps (Jan 12, 2013)

Hello everyone I'm new to the site.. and I have question's in regards to my little Cichlids who've earned the title little vampires..

To begin I am starting my own cichlid tank apart from my husbands.. he has a 55gal. tank.. I have a 10 gal. and we're crossed about what is going on in my tank..

It's 10 gal's, I have a AquaClear 20 filter, a heater and a bubble strip, the tank is filled with sand and I have only three decorations and only five cichlids, very young and very small (the tank is temporary until we move then i'll get a bigger one) from my research I've identified them all to be from Lake Malawi in the Mbuna family.. I have one: Lemon yellow lab, a Golden mbuna, a Mainganos, a Ice blue zebra and a Blue johanni. Yesterday I did a 25% water change.. and this morning I tested the water. I use the API test kit and my readings were: Amm 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Ph 7.6, High ph 7.4, my water temperature is leveled at 78.

Here is my problem.. after allowing the tank to run its cycle I finally started to by my cichlids.. because the tank is only 10 gal's I picked them all very small and young, I love my husbands cichlids and wanted a tank of my own.. after they were acclimated they all took the tank and were ok swimming at all levels of the tank top, middle, bottom.. the light I had at the time was white everything was fine.. then suddenly a few days later I turn on their light and they all sped to the bottom of the tank and disappeared inside the decorations and wouldn't come out.. until I shut off the light. I left them alone and the next day as routine I turn on the light and Poof!! they're gone! Day after day we began this new routine light on fish gone they ate but not until the food would fall into their hiding spots.. I return to the pet shop I got them from asked the guy and he's as baffled as my husband and I are.. so I decide maybe the light is too bright so I buy them a blue light.

New blue light.. at first as the light went on they all hid inside the decorations but after 5 minutes one came out as the rest noticed him they started coming out and finally the fun began.. they started digging in the sand... swimming through the mouth and eyes of the skull head I have, racing through the log and a small O shaped rocked, but they will not venture mid-tank they'll stay close to the decorations at the bottom and always hid as soon as the light comes on, but at least now with the blue light they come out and play.. feeding time is funny because they will race to the top take a bite of the flakes and rush back down sometimes they reach the bottom so fast they raise the sand in a dust cloud..

I think this is so weird because my husbands cichlids are not like that and we have a few of the same fish and his although a lot bigger then mine do not act this way.. its why i've taken into calling them my lil'vamps they act so strangely to bright light...

Why is this happening? will this become a habit with them? will I always have to keep them with blue lighting? :-?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

When fish start hiding, it could be because one is starting to become aggressive and the others are afraid. You may not see the aggressive one...but the sudden hiding is a clue.

A 10G for 5 cichlids like you have is very small. I would use it for a quarantine tank and keep them in there a maximum of three weeks. All of them except the yellow lab will need a tank bigger than a 55G because of their aggression. The golden mbuna (auratus?) may be the most aggressive one.

For now don't worry about the hiding, just make sure you can examine each fish daily to ensure he/she is eating and has no missing scales or nipped/split fins.

How big exactly are the fish? One inch including tail? When are you moving?


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## aicardi (Sep 15, 2012)

flippynipps said:


> It's 10 gal's, I have a AquaClear 20 filter, a heater and a bubble strip, the tank is filled with sand and I have only three decorations and only five cichlids, very young and very small (the tank is temporary until we move then i'll get a bigger one) from my research I've identified them all to be from Lake Malawi in the Mbuna family.. I have one: Lemon yellow lab, a Golden mbuna, a Mainganos, a Ice blue zebra and a Blue johanni. Yesterday I did a 25% water change.. and this morning I tested the water. I use the API test kit and my readings were: Amm 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Ph 7.6, High ph 7.4, my water temperature is leveled at 78.


It looks as though your tank is not cycled. Ammonia should be 0. Nitrites should be 0. Nitrates should be 20ppm or less.

As for the stock. Your Melanochromis Auratus (Golden Mbuna), Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos (Maingano), and Melanochromis Johanni (Electric Blue Johannii, Blue Johanni) are all from the same genus and should not be mixed. 
The Auratus is one of the most aggressive mbuna and will most likely kill everything else in short time. The peaceful Yellow lab will not stand a chance with these guys.
I'd take back the Auratus and Johannii.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You should definitely have a nitrate reading in a cycled tank, that is true. But I don't think 0.25 ammonia is causing your cichlids to hide.

Can you borrow some established filter media from your husband's tank? How did you cycle it? How long did the cycle take?


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## flippynipps (Jan 12, 2013)

ok we let the tank cycle for about a month and a half, with used gravel from my husbands tank.. after the cycle I put in the sand let it settle for about three days then started to buy my cichlids.. they are eating I love to watch them race to the top of the tank and race back down to eat. They do swim around and travel mid tank when the light is off, and only hide when the light comes on.. even with the blue light they hide when I turn it on but after a few minutes they come out play, swim and dig holes. I have noticed my yellow lab does hide from the others even with the light off and he seems to be ok no ripped fins or ripped scales but after some time he comes down and swims with the rest even chases a few around.. as for aggression it seems its been the other way around with my lil'vamps my mainganos seems to be the bully he swears both the log and the skull belong only to him and will chase others out of them, other then that they all seem to share sometimes and my golden mbuna (auratus) deosn't seem to bother much of his tank mates and is always the first to hide when the light goes on he'll wrap himself the head of the skull at the bottom where he's dug a deep hole..

they are so strange... but thanks anymore ideas and advise will help....

also I'll be moving in another month or so


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## flippynipps (Jan 12, 2013)

alos they are about an inch to an inch and a half in size


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Did you add a source of ammonia?


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## flippynipps (Jan 12, 2013)

hmm a source??? no..


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## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

Then your tank is not cycled. Sounds like it is just beginning the cycle. Could you put the fish into your husband's tank? Or take them back to the store? 
Your tank would be much better suited to Tanganyikan shelldwellers or SA/CA dwarves or community fish.


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## Mschn99 (Dec 24, 2012)

Agreed on the tank not being cycled. Just running a tank with a little bit of bacteria from your husbands tank does not cycle it. What cycles a tank is the ammonia from the poop being consumed by bacteria that grow into bigger and bigger colonies to handle the bioload, and then the waste from those bacteria being consumed by another bacteria and thus building colonies of those bacteria. The only way to cycle a tank is to either do it by adding ammonia (thus not using fish and risking them) or from the waste from the fish. Since you have ammonia and no nitrites, im guessing your going to see water problems for a couple weeks. Your ammonia will probably spike, and as it starts to come down then your nitrites will spike, and then as they come down your nitrate will go up. When your ammonia and nitrite readings are 0 and you have nitrates (try to keep them under 20ppm using reasonable feedings and water changes) then you know your tank is cycled.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you borrow some established filter media from your husband's tank (leave it in for 2 weeks) you can transplant the beneficial bacteria and avoid poisoning your fish with ammonia and nitrites.

Does your test kit show nitrates on your husband's tank?


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## flippynipps (Jan 12, 2013)

He says no nitrates in his tank but he has 300 liters of purigen in his canister a Marineland 360.. he's last reading was amm 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0 and ph 8.0, kh 7dp and gh was 5dp in his 55 gal tank.

We only put some of his rocks into my tank and I did drop two red minnows in there to help with the cycle (which I use to feed my turtles on occasions).. and no my turtles are not in the tank with my lil'vamps, just incase some of you may wonder..


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## Mschn99 (Dec 24, 2012)

no nitrates is practically impossible unless maybe its a planted tank. Are you sure your doing the test right? The amount of shaking of the bottle as well as the sample is very important. you get a false low level if you dont shake it correctly.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Why does he need purigen?


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## flippynipps (Jan 12, 2013)

He says he uses the purigen to keep the nitrates low... but now my question is what should our reading's be?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd lose the purigen...better to remove the nitrates via water changes than to chemically treat them.

Nitrates are produced by healthy bacteria...so you want to see them as proof your bacteria are fine.

But nitrates are a little toxic to fish, so you want to keep them low as well. I like to change 50% of the water each week. Nitrates are usually 20ppm at that time. After a 50% change nitrates are 10ppm.

I find I don't want to go under 10ppm because then my plants start dying and I develop other problems.


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## 02redz28 (Dec 21, 2012)

I think you need to pick up a basic fish keeping reference book to read. You're missing the basic aquarist knowledge at this point. Also, your animals are in an impossibly confined situation that is not appropriate. If your LFS knew you were putting all those fish in a 10 gallon, I'd choose another place to shop. They are not doing you any favors at this point except thinning your wallet. I would return the fish you bought and do some research before you start over.


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## flippynipps (Jan 12, 2013)

*** been trying to read up on them as much as I can online.. purchasing a book would be better I'll definitely look into it. The tank is temporary and I would not buy anymore fish.. they are still rather small none reaching more then an inch and a half and are doing fine other then the light behavior. Thanks again for all your advise.. it shall be taken into consideration..


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## Yael (Nov 25, 2012)

It's pretty normal for little fish to hide if they have hiding places to go to - that's one of the things that instinct does for them that lets them become big fish.

I think you should probably put your tank lights on a timer so that the fish get a regular day/night cycle and don't associate you with flipping on the lights and scaring them.

Good luck with the tank cycling - it's possible to get it to cycle ok with the fish but you have to stay on top of the water changes and test test test. It'll speed up the process if you can 'borrow' some of the filter material from your husband's tank (if it's been running for awhile and seems healthy).


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## flippynipps (Jan 12, 2013)

thanks i'll definitely do that.. and I have started a lighting session with my lil'vamps and they are finally starting to get use to the light being on. I start off setting a very dim light outside the tank its glow reaches inside the tank giving it a dawn kind of setting.. after a while I bring the light closer once they get use to it, I turn on their light in the tank and they still shy and swim down to the sand but after a few moments they start swimming and playing again. Soon they'll get use to it!!


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## anthraxx4200 (Aug 16, 2012)

honestly since your both into fish id highly suggest starting a tank build together (no sense not piecing it together early) that way you both have a bonding thing to do, and you get the added benefit of having a much larger aquarium. id suggest something in the 75-125 region. used of course and take ur time putting it all together. it can be quite a process but man is it fun in the end. also on a side note really look into finding and joining a local club. tropical fish hobbyist has a listing of most of the larger clubs around the country. anyways GL and have fun. just remember patience and putting it together slowly will pay off in the long run.


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