# Aragonite?



## Mel360 (Aug 24, 2012)

Hi everyone. I'm very new. My husband impulsively bought what I believe to be a juvenile Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos. This is our first african cichlid. Don't worry too much, it's in a 20 long with a cave and crushed sea shells. This is a temporary home of course. We're on the hunt for a used 55 gallon. I plan on getting all females, but I've read that with some african cichlids, if there are too many of one gender then the fish can morph into the opposite gender, I'm hoping this isn't true for this specie? Anyway, to the point. I read that aragonite is a good substrate to use as a buffer. I found some on amazon.com, but in the description it says that its for marine aquariums and that it is LIVE aragonite and contains live marine bacteria. I don't know if this is a dumb question, but is that safe for freshwater aquariums? I'm assuming that it will just die and be fine, but I wanted to make sure. Thank you in advance.


----------



## Mel360 (Aug 24, 2012)

Also, how many lbs will I need for a 55 gallon?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Although it is rare, there is at least one documented case by respected scientists of an African cichlid changing gender. You don't want live marine bacteria as yes, it will die, but also possibly add to the toxins in the tank as it decomposes. You may not even want aragonite because substrate as a buffer is overrated...possibly even useless. Add crushed coral to your filter in one of the media baskets and get pool filter sand or another substrate that will be easy to clean and the fish will be able to dig in happily.

I've had aragonite for 7 years and it never changed my pH or GH or KH the slightest bit, nor does that tank seem any more stable than my tanks with other substrates. In fact, I am changing it to something more attractive.

There is an article in the Library on setting up tanks that gives you a pounds/gallon amount of sand to add. Remember you might not need that much because mbuna are rock fish and you will be filling the tank with rocks. And...the rocks go on the bottom...you add the substrate after the rocks.


----------



## Mel360 (Aug 24, 2012)

Can you recommend a brand of crushed coral for me? I'm running in to similar problems with that too (contains live marine bacteria..).
I didn't realize you added the sub after the rocks. Whats the reason for that?
Thanks for all the information, btw.


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

The rocks are placed on the tank bottom first for stability reasons, that way the fish can't dig under them and cause them to topple over.

You don't need to use crushed coral as your substrate. You can use pool filter sand (usually tan/brown in color), aquarium sand, or other similar products.

What color substrate were you interested in using?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I've never seen crushed coral with a brand. You don't want sand for the filter, you want gravel.


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I assumed she was asking about substrate and not a product to place in the filter so if that is the case, ignore my suggestion for sand.


----------



## Mel360 (Aug 24, 2012)

Well, I was asking about sub. But then I was told not to use crushed coral as sub, but to use sand instead and put the coral in the filter. Idk what color sand I want for the sub. I guess just regular colored sand because I want the aquarium to look natural.
What does putting gravel into a filter do? I use sponge filters btw, I'm not sure if you're talking about a different kind or not.
And whats the difference between "pool filter sand" and regular sand? Is it finer?
Sorry I'm asking so many questions, I'm just trying to be well informed. I appreciate you guys helping me.


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Pool filter sand is coarser and is used as a filter media for pools. Where you buy it depends on where you live. The only place I've seen it near me is at a pool supply store and it's a seasonal product.

DJ was referring to power, canister or sump filters for adding coral substrate or aragonite, I think.

Obviously with traditional sponge filters you can't add anything to them.

Some people prefer to use black, brown, white or a combination of colors for their substrate.

I use a product called Colorquartz or Spectaquartz for my aquariums. It's available in various colors though I prefer the earth tones. I'm lucky that there is a distributor near me that sells to the public.


----------



## Mel360 (Aug 24, 2012)

So why not use regular sand? I assumed that it would be better to use something finer because it would be less abraisive. Was I wrong?
And wouldn't adding some crushed coral to the substrate or putting a few small piles in the tank have the same effect as putting it in the filter, except that it would take longer for the full effect?
If I NEED to put it in the filter, then I can find a way. I can make my own sponge filter and just shove some coral down into the hole in the sponge that the tube connected to the power head will go. Wouldn't that work?


----------



## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Test your water source to determine if you need to buffer at all. API makes tests for GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness or total alkalinity).


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

GTZ is right, you likely don't need crushed coral in the filter, test your water. The only reason I mentioned crushed coral in the filter was you said you wanted a buffer. Coarse particles in the filter work better because the water is continuously forced through it and more dissolves. But definitely find out if you need it first.

Coarser sand gets sucked up by the filters less. Sand in the impeller grinds and destroys it.

If you are using sponge filters, no worries. You can buffer in other ways, but only if your water needs a buffer.


----------



## Mel360 (Aug 24, 2012)

Okay thanks.
I just ordered some test kits online, they should be here in five days.
I'd get them from the pet store, but they're expensive there.

I went back to the article that I read that said aragonite can be used as a buffer. It actually said that aragonite combined with crushed coral would be a good combo because together they'd leach most of the important minerals that fish need for healthy osmoregulation. So it isn't so much to keep kh up but if combined with crushed coral it can give the fish more of the different important minerals that they need. Is that correct?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I probably read the same article (plus a dozen aquarium books), which is why I bought aragonite.:lol: :lol: :lol: Now I can report my experience 7 years later, also having tanks with no aragonite or crushed coral.

Before you decide if you need to buffer or add minerals, you have to find out if your water is deficient. If your water comes out of the ground with all the minerals you need...adding more is not going to matter. (When you buffer, you are adding minerals.)

I think the idea that rocks or substrate containing calcium can effectively buffer aquarium water when you change 50% of it weekly is turning out to be not as true as fishkeepers once thought. Science is advancing, and we have a Mod on CF who has studied/is studying at the PhD level about water and just this kind of question. "Effectively" is the key word. The rocks/substrate just cannot dissolve fast enough in one week (before it gets changed) to put enough minerals in the water to be effective.

Bottom line? Can't hurt...likely won't help.

PS if you find your KH is low and you have pH swings which means you _need _minerals, there ARE effective ways to buffer...it is just not rocks or substrate.


----------



## Mel360 (Aug 24, 2012)

Okay, I tested the water in the tank and its only at 6 dKH! What should I do? The tap water is only 4 dKH.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Read the water chemistry articles in the Library. You are likely to want to add baking soda with water changes.


----------



## Mel360 (Aug 24, 2012)

I've read it, I just didn't know if I should try it because I read something before that said not to mess with home mixes if you're not experienced. But if you think its okay, I'll try it. Is instant ocean the same thing as marine salt? If not, then what kind of salt is instant ocean?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Look at the incredients. Marine salt is sodium chloride in part, which is NaCl like table salt. Instant ocean sounds marine to me.

Baking soda you will see in the ingredients of cichlid salt or pH increasing products...you are using the same ingredient, just not paying for extraneous water and packaging.

How do you get experienced if you don't read and try things? Make sure you have your test kits and practice in a bucket if it makes you feel more comfortable. Raise pH (KH) very gradually.


----------



## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

If you have a 5 gallon bucket, try adding 1 teaspoon of baking soda, then test KH levels. I'm not positive on the time required before testing, but I think 10-15 minutes should suffice.
When you arrive at a correct dosage for the bucket, you can then apply this dosage to your tank, which of course you should also test while dosing. I would wait longer before testing after each dose in the tank, an hour or two at least.


----------



## Mel360 (Aug 24, 2012)

Sounds good. And this may be a stupid question, but is it safe to add the baking soda while the fish is in the tank? There have been a lot of things when it comes to fish that have suprized me, so now if I have even a hint of doubt about something, I ask about it no matter how obvious the anwer seems. So sorry if I ask a lot of "dumb questions".


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It is safe, but as GTZ said, get your amounts worked out in a bucket. Test before, add the baking soda and test after.

Once you know the amount that will increase your pH=0.2 then mix that same amount into your tank. Don't change more than pH=0.2 daily.

You will have to add the baking soda with every water change to keep the tank stable, so definitely OK to add when fish are in the tank.

Mix the baking soda with water-change-water before adding...don't just sprinkle the powder into the tank.


----------

