# All male tank stocking advice - johnchor



## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hello experts.

need some advice, i have just upgraded from my 67 gallon tank to a 119gallon tank 4x2x2
i will like to know if Kyoga flameback will do well in a all male tank? will the single male Kyoga flameback color up?

my all male 119 gallon tank stock list as below:

1xLabidochromis caeruleus
1xPseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Ngara)
1xCopadichromis borleyi (Kadango)
1xOtopharynx lithobates (Zimbawe)
1xProtomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" (Taiwan Reef)
1xAulonocara (Rubescens)
1xAulonocara baenschi 
1xHaplochromis sp. "Kyoga flameback"
1xSteatocranus casuarius
1xAltolamprologus calvus (Black)
1xSynodontis multipunctatus
1xAethiomastacembelus elipsifer

thats all


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## samaki (Oct 25, 2002)

A male alone has no reasons to be colorfull as the color is part of its sexual characters.
xris


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hello samaki expert,

thanks for your great advice again.
i am sad to hear that Kyoga flameback won't color up nicely as a alone male.
how about the Haplochromis sp. "flameback", will a alone male color up nicely?

i have some Pundamilia nyererei (Ruti Island) juv right now but i observed they are pretty aggressive. i am not sure if it can fit an all male tank?
i also have a source to Astatotilapia nubila, just wonder if they are aggressive as Pundamilia nyererei?
Astatotilapia nubila looks pretty nice with jet black body and red tail.

thanks for advice!


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## samaki (Oct 25, 2002)

hi Jonchor H.nubilus can be as agressive as the P;nyererei. Vics males tend to color only to seduce females and show to them their force. if not, the male will be paler and will not have the stunning colors that it can exibit with females 
xris


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

Hello Samaki sir,

does Pundamilia nyererei males behave the same? no females no colors?

thanks


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## samaki (Oct 25, 2002)

Hi Jonchor yes like all males vics.
xris


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'll throw in my experience with a male nyererei in a tank with no female nyererei. He is colored up. Maybe just a fluke and not what would normally be expected to happen.

The nyererei is in a mixed gender tank of mbuna. Maybe he colors up because of the mbuna females, although he shows no interest in them.

It's a temporary and unintentional situation having him in there alone...I mean to have a breeding group of them. But of 8 unsexed juveniles, I ended up with 6 males and 2 females. I took out 1 male and the 2 females to try to get them to spawn in another tank, which they did. Fry are in grow-out. Male is separated from females.

Anyway, he will not be female-free for long. But at this moment he has color and only the female mbuna in the tank with him.


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## AlphaWild (Apr 9, 2009)

I had the similar situation as DJ described for about 3 weeks. The male stayed colored, not 100%, but still far better than you'd expect. However, he was also a murderous demon to his own kind.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

yeah i do noticed they are pretty aggressive to each other, i have 10 juves ruti now at 1.5 inch in a 119 gallon
they are unlike mbuna which maintains territory, instead they like to chase each other around the whole tank!


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## Michael_M (May 31, 2012)

Every time I've tried to add Vic's into my all male hap/peacock 180g they were too aggressive. Basically at about 2-2.5' they started to colour up and got really nippy and mean. I tried two separate flameback males; one was originally dominant over the other in a different tank. You might be lucky but for the time being I'd assume con specifics distract males and stop them bothering the other fish much. I'd expect things to change once you remove the extras.

I think its easier sticking to one lake. 
My .02


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hello mike,

what types of vics did you tried before in a all male tank?
flameback or Kyoga flameback? did the single male color up nicely?
i am surprised to hear that flameback are aggressive!

i have personally mixed zebra obq. and P.nyererei before.
i would not say they started WW3 but they are really nippy sometimes.
i am still collecting information and feedbacks about Kyoga flameback, flameback in a all male tank mixed.

P.nyererei seems to be the most consistent in coloring up as a single male. but the down side is they are nippy and not peaceful as what i like.

thanks


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## Chowder Head (Sep 3, 2011)

It has been almost been two months and my Kyoga flameback has kept his color in an all-male setting. Depending on his mood, sometimes his coloring is muted a little, but he is displaying nicely.

I am trying many male Vics in a 280g just to see how it goes. So far, I still get quite a bit of color, I am very satisfied.

I was told they would practically look female and be colorless. These types have shown amazing color so far: Thickskin, Zebra O, Kyoga Flameback, Burtoni, calliptera, red-tailed sheller, chromogynos zue island, ruby, pundamilia igneopinnis, and pundamilia blue bar.

I still find that my hippo point salmon, checkerboard, matumbi hunter, and red-finned piebald keep moderate color, muted, but always present. I still really enjoy them.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hello chowderhead

thanks for feedback on Kyoga flameback in a all male tank. this is my dream vic if he really does color up as a single male.
how about his aggression? compared to peacocks and nyerreri?

10g-Pundamilia Nyererei "Ruti Island" (9) - how do u keep them in a 10g? wont they kill each other?

thanks


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I am surprised about the Ruby Green, but it's a 280G so unless we have the same size tank, we may not have valid hopes to duplicate your results. Keep reporting back...I'd like to see how it is going in one year and then in two years. My all-male tank compatibility was still changing after one year. opcorn:


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## AlphaWild (Apr 9, 2009)

There are always exceptions. I had a couple ruby males that colored nicely in a community setting with various Malawis and other Vics in a 75g. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to reproduce that with the offspring though.


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## Chowder Head (Sep 3, 2011)

Kyogas are generally very mild. I have some 3-4" Haps, but I brought in the Kyoga with many others as 1.5-2" juvies and have had good luck so far. My Nyerei are also in the small batch so that is yet to be seen.

My thickskin is the only nipper in the tank and he only has short, infrequent spats. The pundamillias will take over soon i bet. I am sure that the community dynamics will change in time. I have a very risky stock list on my tank page, there are several I would like to take out now, like the fire mouths. Anyone ever try to catch fish in a 280 on a 42" stand? I need scuba gear! I am going to try an acrylic fish trap and devoting lots of spare time, but hey, with a 280g, I haven't wanted to watch TV in several months, I am fish watching all the time when I get home.

as for the 10g with the nine Ruti Islands. I just recently got a batch of 1" juvies, I just moved them up to a 20g yesterday and will be moving them to a 75 that is currently cycling. the 10g was just temporary. The new 75 I just got was the last straw for my wife, I am now cut off. I am cycling it with no light, only half the bottom covered in sand, and no filtration other than a sponge filter for a 15g and a big submersible power head. I will equip it slowly.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hello folks!

Can anybody tell me if Ophthalmotilapia ventralis is green or blue?

i am looking at some options for a GREEN fish and i do find Ophthalmotilapia ventralis attractive.
a max size of 5inch and fast swimmer. looks good for my all male tank. 
does a single male adult Ophthalmotilapia ventralis color up in a all male tank?
how about aggression, is Ophthalmotilapia ventralis aggressive. or will the peacocks will bully the Ophthalmotilapia ventralis?

thanks


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

The ventralis will likely get bullied, and usually don't colour up without females. Not a great choice.

You are best sticking with other Malawi Haps and Peacocks.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hi sir

good to see you reply!  
is Ophthalmotilapia ventralis green or blue?
sorry i am alittle color blind... seriously. 

thanks



Fogelhund said:


> The ventralis will likely get bullied, and usually don't colour up without females. Not a great choice.
> 
> You are best sticking with other Malawi Haps and Peacocks.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hello experts,

what green color fish can you recommend me for my all male tank?

thanks


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

O. ventralis can be blue, green, yellow or black, when dominant, depending on their collection location. They'll be light silver when they aren't dominant.

There are some greenish fish such as Lethrinops lethrinus and Tramitichromis sp. "Intermedius", that might work out.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hi sir

thanks for your kind advice again!

looking thru the profiles i will like to consider these as GREEN color cichlids options

i am just not sure if there are green or some other colors. again sorry i am a little color blind...
Labidochromis textilis
Thoracochromis brauschi
Tramitichromis sp. "Intermedius" 
Lethrinops sp. "Red Cap"
Cyathopharynx furcifer
Ophthalmotilapia ventralis

of course some of these fishes are hard or impossible to get here. eg:Thoracochromis brauschi (need to be very patient) 
but which of them will be possible to mix in all male tank?

top of my choice now is as below
Thoracochromis brauschi
Lethrinops sp. "Red Cap"
Cyathopharynx furcifer
Ophthalmotilapia ventralis

thanks again folks!


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

johnchor said:


> but which of them will be possible to mix in all male tank?
> 
> top of my choice now is as below
> Thoracochromis brauschi
> ...


None of these fish will mix well in an all male tank, with the fish you've got. The Lethrinops has the best chance, but it is a fish that if it isn't dominant, it will likely look very bland, and I don't believe them to be aggressive enough to be dominant in your tank.


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## sus (Aug 29, 2009)

I have a male (and a female) green face lethrinop kande island in my 180g mixed male peacock/hap tank for ~2yrs. Ideally, the female shouldn't be there, have plan to remove her but not yet done (touch wood no probs yet, nobody seems to be interested in her :wink: ). 
The male has very faint greenish color, once I go home I'll try to post some pics to give you an idea.


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## sus (Aug 29, 2009)

Finally here is a pic.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

thanks SUS!

is lethrinop red cap Green also?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Check the profiles picture. Besides, they are unlikely to colour up in your tank, as suggested before.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hi sir

roger that i think i should hold off buying more fish at the moment. until the current stock are fully settle down.
maybe in 6 months time.

thanks for great and expert advice!


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hi experts,

currently i have a batch of 9 p.nyerreri ruti island. they are 2 inches now in another tank.
i have a single male p.nyerreri in my all male tank. he did not seem to color up properly.  
when added back to the p.nyerreri tank, he showed back his red/yellow colors. 

questions 
1) is this normal?
2) can i have 2-3 p.nyerreri males in a all male tank? 120gallon
3) or should i have 1 male p.nyerreri and 2 females in a all male tank for them to color up properly.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes it is normal for a Victorian not to color up well in an all-male tank. I would expect to have trouble with more than one nyererei male in any tank...mine have given me trouble. Usually you would not put any Victorians in an all-male tank although some have had success with Astatotilapia latifasciata. Mine did color up, but he chased another favorite of mine so I took him out.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hello DJ,

my ruti island looks exactly like these pics
http://www.suephoto.com/index.php/galeria/index/9/5/

they are not red color but rather yellow and orangie. they are only 2 inch now in a tank by themselves with my german red peacock.
most of the time they are plain sliver. duh! unless fighting, they color up like these pictures. sometimes they look so dark when intense fighting and looks kinda ugly...overall i am quite disappointed with ruti island colors....

should i be more patient and give them more time to grow larger before i offload them?
what size do they really color up? 3inche and above?

thanks


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd try them in a 48" tank as a single species (one male) and wait until he is 3".


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hi DJ

i have tried Astatotilapia latifasciata before in a all male tank.
the male did not color up as well and he is a constant harassment and kill one of my blue peacocks.
thus i have offload them long ago...

P.nyerreri i my observations so far... is very aggressive among themseleves. they like to jaw lock.
but mostly, they ignore the Malawis or just give a little chase off their turf.

some questions, are female nyerreri aggressive and do they jaw locked and fight? do they darken up in fighting? do they have any colors. 
i have a hard time guessing which are males and which and females nyerreri.
i can only confirm 2 large males 2.5inch (orangie top, yellow mid body and dark bottom) and 1 single female(which always run away from fighting-plain sliver)
the rest of my nyerreri all turns very dark when fighting but have no red colors...???


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hi DJ

ok roger 3inch! i will wait for him to grow up macho! :lol:



DJRansome said:


> I'd try them in a 48" tank as a single species (one male) and wait until he is 3".


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Male victorians are rarely good specimens in an all male tank. Either they are subdominant and don't colour, or there are very aggressive, and look great.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

yeah fogelhund,

i do agree with you on victorians. they are un-predictable in the mixed tank.
but is there any particular victoria which has a high chance to mix well?
i hope the experts here can share some light

thanks


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hi experts

i currently found and confirmed a source for F1 Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" at 2.5 inches.
i have checked them out and confirmed they are red tails. 
they do not look like P.nyerreri as they have red tails and all yellow body and a blue grey head. :thumb:

my question
can i keep P.nyerreri ruti island with red tails?
i read that red tails are super aggressive.

and can a single red tail male be comm in a all male tank with malawi haps/docile mbunas?

thanks


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Usually nyererei are worse than red tails aggression wise. Not sure if it will work, the only thing you can do is try.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hi fogelhund sir!

thanks for your expert advice again.
sorry i am confused here, the profiles here stated nyerreri aggression is midly aggressive but hap sp44 red tails as aggressive!
so i was thnking red tails are worse...

will nyerreri and red tails hybridized?


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

hi sir,

i love Victorians but they do not come by easily here in singapore...
so far i have only seen these 2 locally, and they come only once in every few years!
Astatotilapia latifasciata (seen them once in a while, every year or 2 years)
Haplochromis sp. "#44" thickskin/red tails. (have not seen for many many years, 5 or more years!)

other victorians like these below needs to import from fish farms, and they are super costly... sometime fish farms wont even want to import for you!
Astatotilapia aeneocolor
Pundamilia nyererei (Ruti Island)
Astatotilapia nubila

somehow i really regretted not to import Astatotilapia nubila when i have the chance...

tough choice! lolx


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

johnchor said:


> hi fogelhund sir!
> 
> thanks for your expert advice again.
> sorry i am confused here, the profiles here stated nyerreri aggression is midly aggressive but hap sp44 red tails as aggressive!
> ...


Yes, they will hybridize... unless you get males only, then the breeding will probably be reduced. P. nyererei are typically much more aggressive in my experiences.


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## johnchor (Apr 2, 2011)

Hello folks,

highs and lows of all male tank continues....
just to update on the current status of my "Mixed all male tank"

a few of my newer experiments have failed so far...
1) 1.5 inch T.dubosi has passed on - suspected due to poor water quality. no visible sign of physical damage. no malawi bloat either.  
2) 2.5 inch P.nyererei (Ruti Island) failed to color up as a single male. :x 
3) Aulonocara German red - very aggressive towards Aulonocara baenschi and was transferred to timeout tank. hopefully can be back to main tank in 2-3 mths time.

current experiments
1) 2.5 inch Ophthalmotilapia ventralis	, managed to get along with malawi and not bullied by them. but only a very slight turquoise tint color on the fins. :roll: 
3) 2 inch Hap sp.44 Redtails, i am very surprised they are much mellower than P.nyererei! and they color up slightly better. 

the old time survivors and permanent residents (below) of my tank are still doing well. :thumb: 
they have little aggression with each other so far.

4 inch Labidochromis caeruleus 
6 inch Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" 
4 inch Aulonocara baenschi 
5 inch Copadichromis borleyi (Kadango) 
5 inch Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" (Taiwan Reef) 
5 inch Protomelas spilonotus (Mara Rocks) 
4 inch Steatocranus casuarius

i am again beaten and thus the experts here advice and proven that lake tangayika cichlids do not mix well with malawi... good job! :thumb:


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