# starting a cichlid tank



## mappelbaum37 (Nov 9, 2009)

hello. I am new to this forum. I started in the hobby with a 20g peaceful freshwater tank, and then about a year later upgraded to a 75g saltwater tank. That turned into a full blown reef which was thriving with fish and everything. I ran it for 2 years and a few months ago decided to take it down because I got too busy to maintain a reef. I am considering starting up the 75g again but converting to cichlids due to their low maintenance and freshwater being about 100x easier than a reef. But I dont really want to start it up just to throw 4 or 5 cichlids in there.

- Can somebody suggest a good species of cichlid?
- Can I mix african cichlids with american cichlids?
- I was thinking about a frontosa or something like that. Any objections w/ frontosas?
- I currently have several powerheads, 75g tank, fluval 405, and lighting from my previous tank. Is there anything else I need? (other than substrate and rocks)
- Rockwork--> I am used to the reef setup, so i was either thinking of building 4 separate pillars of rocks, all connected by a bunch of rocks on top for optimal swimming room. OR i was thinking the low to the ground type setup with a bunch of caves for hiding.
- I was told that there are 2 ways to go about cichlids. 1) put very little in for the least aggression. OR 2) overcrowd the tank to avoid territorial issues.

Thanks for the help!


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

mappelbaum37 said:


> - Can I mix african cichlids with american cichlids?
> - I was thinking about a frontosa or something like that. Any objections w/ frontosas?
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## mappelbaum37 (Nov 9, 2009)

thanks for the reply. Yes it is a standard 75 gal. tank.

I am leaning toward a low aggression side, and breeding groups of males and females dont really matter to me. If they breed, they breed. I dont plan on enforcing it. I want more of a bright colored fish, or not necessarily bright, but something that stands out from the bunch. Most importantly, I want an active tank. Like I said before, I dont want to just throw 5 fish in the tank and be done. As for the frontosa outgrowing my tank- this tank will be setup for 1 1/2 yrs approx. because i will be going to college, unless my family plans to take care of it while I'm away. So adult growth shouldnt be a problem.

thanks


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

One more thing I can advise you on is the subject of hybrids. If you don't get good ratios of males and females, like all males of one species and all females of another species, the chance that you get hybrids are bigger. You should not distribute the fry from hybridization. If any on the fry survive, you will need to cull them if they turn out to be hybrid. There is a catfish S. multipunctatus that will be use for fry control.

I hear yellow labs and demasoni are the rage, although demasoni are aggressive, they will not bother the yellow labs and you need about 20 to spread out the aggression. There is a bigger mbuna that looks like demasoni Pseudotropheus "Blue Dolphin" but I don't know about the temperament, but one retailer said they were demasoni without the aggression issues.

There's so many ways to mix cichlids, you don't want the cookie cutter setups in the library?


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## mappelbaum37 (Nov 9, 2009)

Thanks a lot for the help so far. So when you said about 20 are needed to spread out the aggression, did u mean 20 yellow labs and demasoni mixed together, or 20 of the yellow labs only? And why do i want to cull them with a catfish if they turn out to be hybrid? Also, if any other viewers (including TKC747) can post what kinds of cichlids they have mixed so i can get some more knowledge on whats compatible, that would be great.

thanks again


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

Sorry, 20 demasoni, probably any number of yellow labs. look for some pictures and You'll get a better idea of what it may look like. Look at posts with pictures and videos to get other ideas

I recently learned of yellow labs and maingano (melanchromis cyanerhabdos I think is the scientific name which I butchered) maingano is correct though, they are dark blue black with light horizontal stripes, also good contrast with yellow labs

Hybrids are not good because they can look like either parent, a mix, or neither, if they look like either parent, they can pass as purebreeds but they will not be predictable in behaviour and sometimes looks when they grow to adult hood. If you keep them in the tank and not distribute, that is ok, but since you are leaving for college, if they do survive, you have to not give them to anyone that doesn't know about hybrids


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

mappelbaum37 said:


> hello. I am new to this forum. I started in the hobby with a 20g peaceful freshwater tank, and then about a year later upgraded to a 75g saltwater tank. That turned into a full blown reef which was thriving with fish and everything. I ran it for 2 years and a few months ago decided to take it down because I got too busy to maintain a reef. I am considering starting up the 75g again but converting to cichlids due to their low maintenance and freshwater being about 100x easier than a reef. But I dont really want to start it up just to throw 4 or 5 cichlids in there.
> 
> - Can somebody suggest a good species of cichlid?
> - Can I mix african cichlids with american cichlids?
> ...


I quoted him so I don't wind up hijacking his thread


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

actually it's more like 12+ for dems

a 75 is too big to keep fronts for life, and i am the kind of hobbiest that suggests making set-ups that will work forever

I would personally never mix africans with new world, nor would i mix tangs with vics or malawi, i would however mix a few vics with a few malawis, just depends on the fish

when setting up a cichlid tank you have to decide what you want from the tank, do you want tangs? do you want colorful breeding fish like mbuna? or do you want a colorful all male setup, or do you want to go the new world route

knowing answers to these questions always makes it easier to make suggestions

also if you still have all the live rock, letting it die off and become baserock would make some great rocks for a cichlid tank, and would be good for buffering the water


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

ill give you my stock of mbuna in my 75 that has worked for 5ish years.

18 demasoni
8 yellow labs
5 yellow tail acei (wished i got whote tail)
6 ice blue zebra
2 albino bristle nose pleco

2 emporer 400s
minimal slate rockwork to the left and right of driftwood in the center
whiteish pool filter sand (recently changed from black moon)
solid blue backround
7 fake plants
all fish are full grown, the tank is packed and everyone gets along well, many many fry from all.

fronts will work for awhile but as was mentioned by cj they will get giant(15 inches) and start to gulp tankmates whole.

if you decide to go mbuna, id suggest rockwork to the left and right going about halfway up the tank with open space in the middle. i switch up my aquascape frequently so the dems are always squabbling over territory but then again thats what they do best...no real territory disputes other than that.

*** been consumed by mbuna for around 7 years now so im biased. there is a previous post by another member who recently lost her gold severum...if i were to do another tank this fish and its parameters would be the inspiration. she named it sunny delight so if your interested search that keyword, sunny delight, otherwise i would suggest lake malawi mbuna. good luck :wink:


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

sorry, i had to find that post. its in the south american folder and its named "in loving memory of sunny delight"


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## mappelbaum37 (Nov 9, 2009)

thnks for much for the help so far... ill post some ideas later


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

while steelers is a mbuna freak i am more about the all male hap/peacock tank, although if i ever have the time and money and space i would love to set up a mbuna tank, but for now i'm consumed with restocking my show tank, and stocking all my new tang tanks


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## mappelbaum37 (Nov 9, 2009)

went to the lfs today and pretty much decided that if i do go for this tank, its gonna be african cichlids- not americans. I'm also still a little confused about the mixing. Can cichlids like mbunas be mixed w/ africans, or africans can only be with other africans?

-Random question: Starting up the tank, should i use distilled water, or tap?

thanks


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## Wolffishin (Sep 9, 2009)

Mbuna are Africans from Lake Malawi as are Haplochromines and Peacocks.
These sub groups can sometimes be mixed together, and often are, but it depends on the individual genus.

African cichlids can also be found in other lakes like Tanganyika and Victoria.
Most people don't mix the different lakes because of different water perameters and it's just not natural. But some do it anyway.


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## TKC747 (Dec 5, 2008)

mappelbaum37 said:


> went to the lfs today and pretty much decided that if i do go for this tank, its gonna be african cichlids- not americans. I'm also still a little confused about the mixing. Can cichlids like mbunas be mixed w/ africans, or africans can only be with other africans?
> 
> -Random question: Starting up the tank, should i use distilled water, or tap?
> 
> thanks


To clarify, mbuna *are* africans, although peacocks and haps are not mbuna, they are all from lake Malawi

Using distilled water without buffers is not recommended...that is a whole different question, I think you should ask that on another thread  Distilles water will be too soft. Before making a decision, test the water parameters of your tap...more discussion probably when you post this question to another thread :thumb:


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

you need hard water and you can't get that from distilled water

if you go lake malawi you basically have to decide if you like peacocks or mbuna, there are a few haps that will fit, but not a ton so if you go with a hap peacock mix then you can get about a 3rd of the stock haps (maybe) there are a few mbuna that will get along with peacocks but not a ton, usually the general idea if come up with a few fish you really like and one that you must have, and we can help you build around it


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

yeah as mentioned above mbuna are africans...mbuna means rock dwelling and haps are open water swimmers and so their tanks should reflect this. as for mixing african lake it can be done just depends on the species the same goes for mixing mbuna with haps or peacocks. search through the profiles here on this site or at your lfs and find some fish you like write down the names and or colors and patterns and report back and lets go from there


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## mappelbaum37 (Nov 9, 2009)

sounds like a plan- Thanks for all the help guys. I'm gonna check some profiles, posts, pictures, websites and take a trip to a different lfs, and report back with what I like.

Thanks again.


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## mappelbaum37 (Nov 9, 2009)

alright guys. Did some research and made some calls.

This is the list of fish I came up with of what I liked while roaming websites

*I'm not sure of the quantity of each fish I'm looking for, I only put down the certain ones I liked.*

- Demasoni cichlid
- Frontosa cichlid
- Bumblebee 
- Duboisi 
- electric yellow (yellow lab?) 
- jeweled goby cichlid
- Red zebra
- Moorei (blue dolphin?)
- Christmas fulu* [looks like its rare bec. of its coloration.

List of what I have
- 75 gal. tank.
- Several maxi jet and koralia powerheads
- lighting fixture 
- Fluval 405
- Thermometer
- Stealth Heater

List of what I need
- Substrate (im going with sand, not gravel)
- dried rock 
- test my tap water.

Let me know If I am missing anything (equipment wise), and how my fish list looks and how much of each fish should I get, or should I not get one of the ones I listed?

Thank you


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

first of all i will say no frontosa in a 75

dems and yellow labs would work great together, not familiar enough with the rest

cookie cutter section gives some good ideas for 75's


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## mappelbaum37 (Nov 9, 2009)

also would a pleco be alright in the tank??


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i had one in mine for a long long time then one day he was ripped apart, but people usually get away with using them


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

so frontosa will be ok for awhile but when they grow up and get 15 inches they will start to gulp you other fish whole...also they are very lethargic swimmers and sometimes dont do well with the frezied swimming of alot of mbuna such as the demasoni. the blue dolphin as with the frontosa will get too big for a 75. you may be able to do bumble bees at a ratio of 1 males/4 females but they me too aggressive for a 75 and they to get kinda big but not as big as the other two. the only thing i can say for sure and have experiance working well is in your 75...15 or more dems(sex doesnt matter), 6 yellow labs(1 male/ 5 females but sex is not so importent as the next fish i will suggest), and 6 red zebra (1male/ 5 females)...the red zebra may mate with the yellow labs and create hybrids but as long as these hybrids dont make it back into the marketplace its ok. you can do a pleco but they poop more than they eat and usually stop cleaning and take to fish food at around 1 year old or less...and get as big as the frontosa if not bigger. go with 2 bristle nose plecos thay stay around 5 inches and do a better job longer. you could do one more species (5 total) in a 75 depending on the species. *are these the species you have at your lfs?? * *or are you thinkin of ordering online???* either way id do a fishless cycle while your coming up with your plan. your other choices i am unfamiliar with


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## mappelbaum37 (Nov 9, 2009)

thanks a lot. I would be getting the fish at an lfs. They have a very large selection.

ill be sure to post more questions when they come to me in the near future..

thanks again


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