# Cycle of aquarium issues



## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Hello all.
New here to site. I just finished my cycle I think. Started on 8/5. Fishless cycle. I am running am Aquatop 500 UV canister with mechanical filter bottom tray and 3 trays of biohome biological media. 2 Jebao PP4 wave maker powerheads in a 60 gal tank. Used the supplied bacteria beads and have been running since. Just checked and Values are Amonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-0, PH low 7.6, PH High 8.2. Kh at 120 and GH at 120. Think I should wait a few more days before I ad any fish.
Nice to be added to site...
B


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Brian, your cycle isn't complete, you should have nitrates... Have you been adding food or ammonia to the tank to feed and start growing the bacteria responsible for the "cycle?"


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Brian, your cycle isn't complete, you should have nitrates... Have you been adding food or ammonia to the tank to feed and start growing the bacteria responsible for the "cycle?"


Been using the Biohome Filter Starter Balls. Followed their instructions on how to use. My ammonia was at .5 on aug 6th. tested today and 0 Ammonia etc. Biohome says the bioballs will cycle a tank in 5-10 days. I know its strange but this what I got...


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

I have been providing ammonia. I will add more and retest tomorrow and see what happens...


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Food will not provide ammonia. It will provide protein, carbs, and nutrients for unwanted bacteria, molds, and fungus. Expecting the protein to break down into amino acids and then ammonia is mostly wishful thinking.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Okay, I've never used the product so I can't say for sure, but most of the products I have tried that promise an "instant nitrogen cycle" or "cycled within 5-10 days" are practically useless. There's a product called Startsmart Complete that I've used in the past to recover hospital tank filters that got wiped out from meds and it's the only thing I have found that actually works. I'm not advocating the use of bottled products for cycling purposes though, the best way is just using a little ammonia and a lot of patience.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Said this before, but extra ammonia slows down the cycling process. Even microbes able to digest ammonia can still be burned or killed by elevated levels of ammonia. I have had zero nitrate in tanks with denitrator blocks, and with heavily planted aquariums.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Food will not provide ammonia. It will provide protein, carbs, and nutrients for unwanted bacteria, molds, and fungus. Expecting the protein to break down into amino acids and then ammonia is mostly wishful thinking.


Sorry, but you are mostly wrong on that point. There are guidelines on how to cycle with food and there is currently a member cycling with dead shrimp because he has no access to pure ammonia in Hong Kong. Every biological material releases ammonia when it breaks down, that's simple 1st year biology.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Said this before, but extra ammonia slows down the cycling process. Even microbes able to digest ammonia can still be burned or killed by elevated levels of ammonia. I have had zero nitrate in tanks with denitrator blocks, and with heavily planted aquariums.


I have zero nitrates in my 180 gallon, but I have denitrifying reactors and plants in the sump.... I wasn't advising Brian to add extra ammonia but to follow the guidelines for fishless cycling


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Honestly, I don't even recommend using "food" to cycle a tank because it's nasty and messy. Some people do it though and it can be done, but I was trying to be thorough in my line of questioning so I knew the whole story.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

All is good... I will retest tomorrow and see what I get...


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Okay, I've never used the product so I can't say for sure, but most of the products I have tried that promise an "instant nitrogen cycle" or "cycled within 5-10 days" are practically useless. There's a product called Startsmart Complete that I've used in the past to recover hospital tank filters that got wiped out from meds and it's the only thing I have found that actually works. I'm not advocating the use of bottled products for cycling purposes though, the best way is just using a little ammonia and a lot of patience.


Biohome is a filter biologic media. very porous. They just provide bacteria to jumpstart the process of cycling. Still need to feed the bacteria. I do not want to use live fish incase i screw up. No need in killing anything if i don't have to...


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

So it's biological media seeded with bacteria? Didn't know there was such a thing available for sale, learn something new every day lol. Well I'm sure it may help but small amounts of ammonia and time are the best way to go. I don't like the idea of putting fish through all that either


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> So it's biological media seeded with bacteria? Didn't know there was such a thing available for sale, learn something new every day lol. Well I'm sure it may help but small amounts of ammonia and time are the best way to go. I don't like the idea of putting fish through all that either


Its called Biohome. Look it up. Pretty neat stuff. Its Cintered Glasss medium instead of ceramic. You ad the biologics to it in the canister basket. Water stays incredibly clean...


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## dakkon227 (Aug 4, 2017)

How much ammonia are you adding? For a tank to be cycled seeded or not. You will need 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and something for nitrates. Right now we don't see any Nitrates in your readings yet which makes me think the tank is not cycled.

To make sure it's safe for your fish, it's best to dose ammonia until your tank can process 2-4ppm ammonia in 24hrs.

Also we've kind of highjacked OP's thead...


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Hi all...
Continuation from other thread I did not mean to hijack...

Ok,
I have just checked with both the API Master Kit this am...
Readings are Amonia .50, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, PH 7.6, High PH 8.2

API test strip: Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20, PH 7.5-8.0, KH 120, GH 120

The test strip does not have ammonia test. Which is right? Master or Strip. I added ammonia yesterday at 2pm tested in eve and was .25, and today I have ammonia at .50 and no nitrites or nitrates to master test. If the strip is right I could do a water change and check levels of ammonia and if good add fish. I am confused...
Any help will be appreciated.
B


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Those test strips are terrible, I would trust the liquid test kit.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Bryan, I split the topic to move the info to this thread for you.

I like the API kit myself but you have to follow the testing instructions exactly, including shaking the reagent bottles prior to dispensing the drops in the test tubes so the reagent is thoroughly mixed up. Try doing the nitrate test again and post the results. It is a common mistake that we have all made at one time.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Are you shaking bottle #2 of the nitrate test for 30 seconds and then shaking the test tube for a full minute, letting it develop for 5 minutes before checking the color?


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Deeda said:


> Bryan, I split the topic to move the info to this thread for you.
> 
> I like the API kit myself but you have to follow the testing instructions exactly, including shaking the reagent bottles prior to dispensing the drops in the test tubes so the reagent is thoroughly mixed up. Try doing the nitrate test again and post the results. It is a common mistake that we have all made at one time.


will do give me 10min... thank you


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Ok...
now the Nitrate color is 5.0 ppm.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Are you shaking bottle #2 of the nitrate test for 30 seconds and then shaking the test tube for a full minute, letting it develop for 5 minutes before checking the color?


Yep


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Awesome, that means you've made progress. When did you put the ammonia in and how quickly is it processing


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Awesome, that means you've made progress. When did you put the ammonia in and how quickly is it processing


I put the ammonia in at 2pm yesterday. its 10:08am. My ammonia does not to seem to be dropping tho.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Good to hear you are seeing nitrate on the API test!!

I would give it a few more days at least on the fishless cycling just to be sure. I would bump the ammonia back up to 2PPM today and then perform the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests again tomorrow at about the same time of day.

You can also read the Fishless Cycling article link in my signature for additional info that may help answer your questions. Everyone seems to have a bit different results when fish-less cycling depending on the type of ammonia used and it's concentration and age, media used + additives such as bacteria supplements and even their location in the world.

For me, fish-less cycling with only ammonia takes 5 or 6 weeks and I clearly see results for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at various times during the process. However, I have used Start Smart Complete and only saw a nitrate reading on tank with less than 1 inch fish.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Hmm, seems your nitrosomonas are having some trouble getting established (ammonia oxidizing bacteria) How often are you adding ammonia? Startsmart Complete is some awesome stuff if you want to speed up the process, I stand by it also.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Hmm, seems your nitrosomonas are having some trouble getting established (ammonia oxidizing bacteria) How often are you adding ammonia? Startsmart Complete is some awesome stuff if you want to speed up the process, I stand by it also.


Adding ammonia every 2 days. 60 gallon tank. 20 drops. I worry I might over do it and kill off any bacteria i may have started. Need to go back to ace and get more. Wife thought I was just using to clean and dumped rest in her house cleaning spray bottle...


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Deeda said:


> Good to hear you are seeing nitrate on the API test!!
> 
> I would give it a few more days at least on the fishless cycling just to be sure. I would bump the ammonia back up to 2PPM today and then perform the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests again tomorrow at about the same time of day.
> 
> ...


Just do not want to kill any bacteria I may have started...


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Thought I throw a pic in...


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Lmao, wives are good at doing things like that with our fish stuff. Excluding Deeda though, she's a very knowledgeable fish keeper. Yeah you have to be careful not to add too much but like Dee suggested, you need to bring the ammonia level up to 2 ppm to get a good strong colony going.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

What fish are you planning on keeping and how many?


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Im looking at some Red and green severeum, fire mouths and a few clown loaches. Not too many as to crowd the aquarium... mostly south American. Thought about just going with Peacocks and Taiwan reef cichlids and a dolphin cichlid..


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Your current arrangement would be good for SA's, if you want to keep haps and peacocks I'd take the wood out and a few more rocks. The severums would be fine but not much works with fire mouth cichlids IME. Almost forgot, what are tank dimensions? Sorry if you already posted them, I've got a lot going on lol.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Your current arrangement would be good for SA's, if you want to keep haps and peacocks I'd take the wood out and a few more rocks. The severums would be fine but not much works with fire mouth cichlids IME. Almost forgot, what are tank dimensions? Sorry if you already posted them, I've got a lot going on lol.


48x14x22 60gal lexan tank. picked it for 50.00. running an Aquatic CV-500 UV canister with Mechanical and Biohome biologic media in 3 trays. Supposed to do 500 gal per hr but i don't believe it. 2 wireless PP4 Wavemakers and 300 watt heater.

I Like the South Americans. Never had a problem with fire mouths they can get aggressive. May get a few Rams instead. Now Green terrors...thats an other thing all together. Beautiful, but when they get too big the get ornery as ****.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Yes sir, green terror is a well deserved name lol. You'd do really well with the rams in that tank. Dolphins would get too big for the footprint of the tank, besides, the male and female I have left from the original group of 5, terrorize everything that moves in my tank. I was told they were basically gentle giants that gracefully swim around, almost regally, and they don't harass any of their tank mates, boy was that a lie... I had to rehome 3 of them. I would also suggest adding another canister filter of at least equal size to the existing one to increase your biological filtration capacity.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

I was told the same about the dolphins... i guess they are out... Ill keep y'all posted on what happens in the upcoming days. thanks for all the input.
B


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

No problem man, hope everything works out


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

as of 6:30 am:
Amonia .5 PPM
Nitrite .5 PPM
Nitrate 5.0
PH 7.6
PH High 7.8

I have added Plants,South american sword, wisteria and Anubias and Plant food. all are looking great. Going to do a 1/3 water change this afternoon toto see if I can bring down some of the ammonia and nitrite levels down.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Cool, the wisteria grows fast so it will help keep the water clean


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## illmatic40 (Jul 26, 2017)

Not trying to hijack your post brother. So should all bottles in a API Master Test Kit be shaken before use. Might be why I'm having a little trouble with my cycle. This is thd first time in hours and hours of reading that I have heard that.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The nitrate test is the one to shake. The kit comes with instructions for each test...all different.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

ok... 13 Neon Tetras, 1/3 water change, pulled canister filter, cleaned the mechanical and rinsed the biological in aquarium water. 
Water temp 75 Degrees
Results:
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-2.0
Nitrate-20
PH Low-7.6
PH High - 7.8
Nitrite is a little high. Will wait and see over the next few days. Fish liking to school and swim in and out of current. Have the two wave makers running and plenty of O2 with the surface tension movement. Actually rolling... Going to pick up a few (6) Rams this week. Will continue to work on Nitrite levels... Biologics seem to be building up and doing their job...


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

You probably shouldn't add anymore fish until after the nitrites are reading zero consistently


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Nitrite is very high. I would do a 50% water change today to get it to 1ppm and another 50% water change tomorrow to get it to 0.5 ppm and keep it at that level or lower. Definitely do not add fish.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

50% water change yesterday and 50% today... Ammonia 0, Nitrites 2.0, Nitrate 20... No change. Guess will wait and see. Plants healthy, Neons healthy. Cut back on food. once per day and very little. **** pond snails from South American swords look healthy... Heck I don't know... we will see...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

When you remove 50% of the water, you remove 50% of the nitrites. Something isn't right...you should have gone from 2.0 to 1.0 each time.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> When you remove 50% of the water, you remove 50% of the nitrites. Something isn't right...you should have gone from 2.0 to 1.0 each time.


i Know something isn't right. No matter what I do nitrites are high. Everyone in the tank (13Neon Tetras) look to be fine. No weird motions or flashing, no heavy gill motion. Swimming in and out of the current chasing each other...

Have done two more 50% water changes Ammonia at 0 Nitrites at 2.0, Nitrates at 20... Going to let it be for a few days. I am perplexed.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Good morning,
Ran tests again this am...
Ammonia-0
Nitrite 5.0
Nitrate 2.0/3.0
PH High 7.8
PH Low 7.6
Everything look great in the tank. Plants (Still Have 13 Neons) Plants look great Neons doing their thing. I have been adding a little plant food.
Aqueon Plant food. Could the Plant food be giving me a false Positive with the Nitrites? I have not put any in since the water change yesterday.
My Nitrates seem to be rising a little bit at a time. 
Thanks
B


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

The plant food can raise those levels, but it's likely that you're not completely cycled also. Unless you have a heavily planted tank with high light, you do not need the plant food.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Everything clear... 
Going to wait and see what happens over the next few days...


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

It looks really nice


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> It looks really nice


Thank you.
Now I have to get a new Canister filter... My new one, 29 days old is crapping out on me. Aquatop...Bad idea :x . 
Going to get the Marineland 360. Transfer all the media other than mechanical to the 360. Probably going to hose my tank because of this. Lets hope not...


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Nah, you should be fine as long as you transfer everything quickly.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Thanks...


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Nah, you should be fine as long as you transfer everything quickly.


New Canister filter in... What a pain in the butt. the water flow from Magnaflow 360 is twice the circulation by far. Have to readjust the wave makers to flow differently now. But on a good note...its done. :dancing:


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Good deal, I'd feed lightly for a little while just to give everything time to settle in.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Are the nitrites still 5.0 ppm? My fish start gasping at 0.5 ppm.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> Are the nitrites still 5.0 ppm? My fish start gasping at 0.5 ppm.


Testing now


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Good deal, I'd feed lightly for a little while just to give everything time to settle in.


I feed them in am only and barely anything. they fly allover racing to see who gets the most. no extra floating around...


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

bryankleine said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> > Are the nitrites still 5.0 ppm? My fish start gasping at 0.5 ppm.
> ...


Ok So here is what I get. Going to do another 50% water change today,
As you can see my Nitrite is through the roof and the nitrates are are around 20... I keep flushing...


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Wow, that is really high. I would suggest doing a 75% water change and try to get some Startsmart Complete to help get this resolved.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Wow, that is really high. I would suggest doing a 75% water change and try to get some Startsmart Complete to help get this resolved.


Going to LFS and have them test this afternoon. Once again going to change water. Been doing 50% daily and stays the same. I have tried Fluval Cycle, Niteout II, always have used Sresscoat + with water changes. Going to see if Prime will work. From what I can see almost everybody swears by it. Ill ask LFS. (Fish Den here in Denver).

I guess we will see... Funny thing is I can see no fish stress in the 13 tetras in the tank... I also do not want to hurt them. Plants are doing great. Got snails that I am removing. Little buggers just keep showing up. One day at a time...
Thanks for y'alls help...
B


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Neons are growing... they were roughly an inch and now about 1.25" and bigger...

Still will do water change and ad Prime...


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

4pm. Just completed 50% water change. Added Seachem Prime. Now wait until tomorrow am and check chemistry. Ill keep y'all posted.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Water temp 76
Ammonia 0
nitrite .50
Nitrate 10
Ph High 7.8
PH Low 7.6

Going to let tank be and check again in am... Nitrites dropped drastically... Whohoo!


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Yeah that's good to see


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> Yeah that's good to see


What a Pain in the butt. flushed about 200 gallons... at least I used the water to feed the garden. Hate wasting water. Thanks
For all the help...
B


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

No problem man, let me know if you need anything else


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

All good... Yay!
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-Between 0-.25
Nitrate-10

Gave a last change and added a couple of Blur Rams and 3 Angels... thats it for now. All look great and healthy.


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## bryankleine (Aug 8, 2017)

Last one...


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