# Flashing after vomiting - getting bad



## scarecrow1f9 (Dec 8, 2011)

I have 5 acei, 5 yellow lab, 3 red fin, and 13 random hap/peacock males. Tank is 125, water parameters are excellent.

All fish are 2.5-ish inches.

I started with 1 "vomiting" hap, would would randomly vomit occasionally - but acted fine other than that.

A week later I added 10 of the male peacocks/haps. I noticed a few of them rubbing their sides against things, and thought it was from the new environment/water.

That was two weeks ago.

In the last two weeks I have been doing 30% water changes every few days in an attempt to stop the flashing. It's getting worse though, I've noticed a few fish vomit randomly, and they are ALL flashing. I cannot tell if it is something they are just doing, or if it's serious. Other than the flashing they seem great. Very happy, active, and hungry. The ones actively chasing and fighting for pecking order are doing it alot more.

Food is a mix of Hikari gold and hikari excel.

Any ideas?


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

What do you mean vomiting? Are they actually spewing food back out hours after eating? Or are they simply opening their mouths really wide and flaring out their gillplates/fins?

Flashing is a sign of stress; it can be caused by a myriad of different things. It could be due to aggression, being in a new surrounding, too much outside traffick, lack of hiding spots/territory, improper water parameters, parasites, bacterial/fungal infections, very bright lighting, etc.

I'd say the most likely cause of everything you're seeing so far is aggression. The fish are still fairly new, so they're probably still establishing territories and their pecking order, which may explain the flashing, and would definitely explain the "vomiting," or flaring.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

I think there was another thread not too long ago about a vomiting fish. Same person but different fish?

Have you tried changing the food?


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## scarecrow1f9 (Dec 8, 2011)

Naw, unfortunately I mean vomiting in the traditional sense. They open their mouths and a cloud of "dust" comes out. Other fish usually gulp it up. I've noticed a few of them doing it.

I have not switched food yet Arkansas fan - it's on its way still : / . Switching to NLS, the order has taken forever, it's been about 3 weeks.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

scarecrow1f9 said:


> Naw, unfortunately I mean vomiting in the traditional sense. They open their mouths and a cloud of "dust" comes out. Other fish usually gulp it up. I've noticed a few of them doing it.
> 
> I have not switched food yet Arkansas fan - it's on its way still : / . Switching to NLS, the order has taken forever, it's been about 3 weeks.


Wow...that is a long time! I think switching the food up could help. If water conditions are ok and the fish seem to be acting normal then the first place I would start is with the food and see if that made any difference.

What is the expiration date on your current food? Sometimes I forget to check mine.


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## scarecrow1f9 (Dec 8, 2011)

Yep - somethings bad wrong.

Came home today and they are all rubbing like crazy. In addition, two are miscolored and hanging near the bottom - with their fins discolored at the ends.

Please excuse the photo quality, my phone takes lousy pics.



















Notice the orange at the end of their top fins? And the extra dark coloration? Those aceis don;t normally look like that - in fact the didn;t look like that just yesterday.

Please help!


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## scarecrow1f9 (Dec 8, 2011)

Posted a video


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

looks like an injury (the injury at end of tail)

The flashing would have caused this on those rough rocks.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Elaborate on your excellent water parameters, include GH and KH if you can. Same for your tap water, especially KH. What is your dechlorinator?
I would treat with Pimafix and Melafix combined, if you can only get one, get Pimafix. Increase water changes to 20-30% daily, keeping the med levels consistent in the replacement water.
Also, I think you have an inch or two too much sand. 2" is sufficient, any more and you risk trapping decaying detritus under the sand.
If conditions worsen or change during treatment, let us know.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Looks to me like stress and aggression. The acei don't look happy. I would remove the more aggressive mbuna if they are really chasing and harassing the acei. I notice the fins look a bit nipped and frayed. I would do as GTZ mentioned with the pima/melafix.


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## scarecrow1f9 (Dec 8, 2011)

The Acei are the only aggressive fish in there, they chase the peacocks/haps and fight among themselves. The only other mbuna are the yellow labs, and they are the omegas of the tank - they dont bother anyone.

If it was aggression would three fish have the exact same orange/red at the base of their top fins at the exact same place - and all on the same day? 2 Acei and a lab. All the peacocks and haps still look fine, but they are flashing alot.

There is too much sand GTZ - I've been afraid to remove it for the same reason, afraid I'll stir up a pocket of something harmful. I'll give it a try tomorrow.

I have no idea what GH and KH are GTZ - I didn't even know that was something I should have been testing for. I've been testing ammonia (0), nitrate (lowest level, 5-10ppm), Nitrite 0, PH 7.8-8.0, temp 84 (now, normally is 80. This was at the LFS suggestion as they think the problems parasitical.)

I'll get a testkit that includes GH and KH and take a look at the tap water. I have roughly 50 gallons of scrubbies wet/dry, 20 gallons submerged in the sump, and a rena XP4 with micropolishers for mechanical filtration.

When I start dosing them with Pimafix, I'll need to re-cycle the tank, right?

Thanks for the help guys


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Do you think they could have caused these injuries to themselves? The red on the back of the one acei near the dorsal fin does not look good. Do you have a hospital or quarantine tank you could move them to?


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## scarecrow1f9 (Dec 8, 2011)

There's three with that red now, in the same spot.

I don't have a quarantine tank : ( I will buy one tomorrow. I've never had a sick fish before.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Pretty sure it's too late to QT now... If it's spreading, then you might as well treat the entire tank, as it's probably on most, if not all of the fish by now. Can't say for certain what it is, but I'd say Pimafix + Melafix is a good start. Keep in mind though, that if it is indeed bacterial, then raising the temperature may prove to be disasterous, as it would cause the bacteria population to explode.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Agreed, treat the tank, keep the temp under 80 but I wouldn't lower it at this point.
You can still get a quarantine/hospital tank for future use.
Your bio should be ok while medicating, however, you should always test water parameters daily while medicating, regardless of which meds you're using.
If you don't see any improvement after 7 days or the condition worsens or spreads to other fish, I'd perform a large water change, run carbon for 24 hours, then switch meds, likely to kanamycin and/or furan-2.
Also, wait until the fish are recovered before messing with the substrate, sorry, I should have added this. No need to further stress them at this point.
Which dechlorinator are you using?


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## scarecrow1f9 (Dec 8, 2011)

using prime - it's the only dechloronator I've ever used.

As an update, the red dot turned white, and started "growing" on all three of the fish, spreading downwards down their bodies. It looks an awfully lot like the pictures of Columnaris or fish TB.

Had another turn dark today, that's 4. All acei's, it can;t be coincidence.

On another possibly unrelated note, I found 2 small snails in my sump while cleaning it thoroughly. I've never seen snails in my freshwater tanks...

I did a 50% water change yesterday, doing the same tonight. Tomorrow I'm going to remove the carbon from the sump and start on kanamycin. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure I'm going to lose my fish at this point. If the kanamycin doesn't work I guess I'll go with a cycle of malachite/formalin.

What kills me is how amazingly healthy and happy all of the haps and peacocks look. They are active and hungry, begging every time I come near the tank.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Sorry to hear. There are some good columnaris articles on here as well in regards to treatment. I thought I might have had a bout recently but luckily it was the hypochondriac in me.


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