# Difference between Black Calvus and a Black Zaire Calvus?



## DENZIO (Jun 16, 2010)

Are they different or i am talking of the same fish?
Picture appreciated. Thanks!


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

There are at least 6 kinds of black calvus. It just refers to the location in the lake where the fish where collected, some of them have slightly different colors and patterns. They are the same species, just different variants.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I read black calvus variants are from Zambia, southern Zaire and Congo. Would love to see a full variant map. Locations are sadly lost or kept secret when imported and they get sold as say black calvus or black calvus white pearl, Congo black calvus white pearl etc etc rather than the collection site.
I might be a pedant but would love to see more with location of colection rather than the descriptions.
Dunno if its just me but I have not knowingly seen one from Zaire, so do not even know what those look like.

All the best James


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

"Black Calvus" is a vague term, which could mean many different locations of Calvus, or even a mix of locations. More specific variants could be given distinct names. It is all a bit confusing, basically you have to take some if it on trust. Black Calvus from Zambia is the oldest variant in the hobby I believe, unless they caught some from the Congo back in the 70s.

Zaire and Congo are just different names for the same country. Congo is the current name and old colonial name. Zaire was used for a couple decades in between. Whatever you call the country, it is not very safe to travel around so details and underwater photographs are rare from that coasts.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

In that case I have a pair of these.   
Perchased about a year ago as calvus Congo black white pearl but no exact collection site.
The importer says the collectors will not tell him the exact collection site.
Some rather poor photos of mine.

































Dunno just how different they are from other black calvus.

All the best James


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## DENZIO (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks mates!

Here is my Proven black calvus pair (don't really new the collection point) - not the best picture









And my Dominant Male









the reason I asked was, I was concern with the Crossbreeding..
If I happen to don't know whats are their collection point since Variants have a little to less difference and they share the same tank.

its a considered X???  i love to conserved their breeds


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

I figure it would be appropriate to repost some comments on the famed "Infkin calvus" Here it is, in it's entirity...



> Inkfin Black Congo Calvus
> 
> Before I get started, I just want to say that the following post is likely to offend some. I can't help that, as I am confident that it is based on truth and is accurate. The term Ã¢â‚¬Å"InkfinÃ¢â‚¬Â


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I see. Yep I would try and keep variants separate but its kind of hard when they come in unlabeled.
I dought most folk would care too much when buying young as long as you are clear about what the pairents are or what you got em as and where.
Technically a cross of two populations is a hybrid but then many so called pure cichids are this, as location was not considered important for a long time.
Just describe any young with as much info as you have would be my best guess.

Wish my two liked each other as much as yours seem to.
Hard for me to get a shot of mine together. :wink:

All the best James

PS my own guess on inkfin is that it is so rare that its not even a full location but a line bred guy from rare imports of rare mutant fish. Yep rare and exotic and commands a high price but of no real interest to those who want to keep wild type cichids.  Well outside my comfort zone discussing the labels put on fish to make em sell for silly prices.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

24Tropheus said:


> ...PS my own guess on inkfin is that it is so rare that its not even a full location but a line bred guy from rare imports of rare mutant fish. Yep rare and exotic and commands a high price but of no real interest to those who want to keep wild type cichids.  Well outside my comfort zone discussing the labels put on fish to make em sell for silly prices.


It's above my pay scale too James :lol:

All I know is that TR imported them and we haven't seen since and that is a fact.

Russ


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

About the size of it Razzo. :wink: 
Would you mind if I coppied that photo and asked a importer here in the UK about them?
Dunno if we have em or have ever had em (or can get them) in the UK without asking.
My guess would be most rare types in Europe end up in Germany where folk are willing to pay more than in the UK but they might be available at a high cost from there. 8)

All the best James


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## Riverwater (Nov 3, 2010)

Wow, what beautiful fish. I have two that were labeled as "Ink Fins", and the bigger they get the more impressive they look.


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

24Tropheus said:


> About the size of it Razzo. :wink:
> Would you mind if I coppied that photo and asked a importer here in the UK about them?
> Dunno if we have em or have ever had em (or can get them) in the UK without asking.
> My guess would be most rare types in Europe end up in Germany where folk are willing to pay more than in the UK but they might be available at a high cost from there. 8)
> ...


Hey James,

The photo is not mine - it is a friend's fish. He gave me permission to use in threads (I guess, technically, permission is not mine to give :? ). I guess, if you gave your importer a copy of the URL link? If it was one of my photos, no big deal.

Russ :?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

8) No big deal, I prob could not aford em. :wink:


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

Here is one of my "true Ink fin" Although I promised in another thread that I would only call them "Black pectoral" since "ink fin" has become such a loose marketing moniker. The male in the pic is 6 inches so I suppose he could have been collected circa 2003. I know my Tang dealer to be an honest man so whatever that's worth. He says they're wild etc.

I'm also a bit wary of anyone who claims to have particulars on anything that goes on anywhere in the DRC, especially in the north. The whole lake is so secluded but north DRC might be the most closed off. Hard for me to believe the locals haven't occasionally come across this variant for 10 years. And if someone did find a source they wouldn't publish it because the export would be too valuable.

The guy I got mine from has been trying to locate them for years however and hasn't had any since the ones I bought.

I suppose they could be line bred but it would take SO long to produce the same trait
consistently. I know that the trait is consistent because I have many fry from my pair and they are all carrying the black pectoral mark as opposed to some of them having it and some of them not.

They, as do all Calvus do get darker as they age which is why when you see a run of the mill black Calvus all blacked out it's usually big which is synonymous with pretty old in this species. They do not carry the black pectoral until they're sexually mature and only then are they really distinct from their cousins. 
My meaning is that they, "Ink Fins" are more than just "Black". All black calvus can go black as night given the right stimulus, substrate etc. only the true inks have Black pectoral fins. The black pectoral is unique because no matter what shade/color the rest of the fish is, the pectoral fins are always solid black. Their bodies are darker but not dramatically when compared to the avg. "Congo Black".

I've said this before and it's still my opinion but imho it's a good opinion :lol: 
Zaire Black
- tends to have tighter thinner striping with little blue in fins. They're more gray than black. Sometimes called Zebra, but who knows anymore :roll: .

Zambian- The bluest. Blue in fins, blue in mouth (Although they all are). This is the most common since the main export dock in the south is located in Zambia thus a good number are caught there or near there.

Congo Black
-Black with gray heads, quite dark and not much blue in fins.

Here's a better representation of the black pectoral fin.








and the Zambian








For contrast, here is my 5 inch male WHITE! gone dark, to reinforce the "All Calvus can go black as night comment"








Anyway can't pass up a post on my favorite fish! :dancing:


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

> The black pectoral is unique because no matter what shade/color the rest of the fish is, the pectoral fins are always solid black.


I think that just may be the "litmus" test.

Below is my BCWP doing an Inkfin inpersonation. My understanding from a friend who knew TR and actually imported hundreds of true Inks is that if you can see through the pectoral fin at all, it is not an Ink. Also, on a true Ink, you probably would not see the baring that you see on mine.










Same fish (a little older) and in "light" color mode. This will give you an idea of how dramatcially their colour can change. My understanding of a true Ink, is that the pigment in the pec is black and does not, ever, go translucent like mine.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanks for the posts Razzo and BioG you seem to have covered most of my questions except wheather the Black Pectoral/Inkfin is available in Europe. I see I was wrong about it being line bred but do you think it is a full variant or a rare mutant? That is other commoner types are at the same location. Or do we just not know? Just as I guess we do not know wheather they are still in the wild waiting to be refound?

Other thing that puzzels me is how can Congo variants be different from Zaire variants when its the same country?

Or is it just a labelling thing?

All the best James


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## BioG (Oct 12, 2008)

I thought the same thing about the "Congo variants" but, looking at the map, I assumed (That always backfires on me :lol: ) that, due to the VERY long coast line there may be many isolated habitats through out.

I think a TON of new/old variants/species will be found/re-found, if/when the DRC ever gets a hold of itself politically. Problem is getting up north is impossible without heavy risks. It's certainly not worth fishing up there from what I hear.

That is assuming the "Black pectoral" came from The northern Congo. I don't even trust passionate scientist when collection money is at stake :lol:.

I mean, I've been known to give some false info to passing fishermen who ask me things like,"Any luck?" or,"Do you know a good place to fish?" . Nope No luck, but there's an amazing place to fish about a mile downstream :lol: . Funny thing is they never ask themselves why I'm not fishing a mile downstream :lol:

My point is that these isolated variants are worth money to whomever finds them so I try to take the info with a grain of salt. So who do we hobbyists trust, the collection point money guys or the grant money science guys? Oy!


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

This is just opinion and you know what "they" say about those: they are like arm pits - everyone has more than one and they usually stink :lol:

With that disclaimer out of the way - I am pretty confident that Inks come from a particular collection point and therefore, it is possible to "rediscover" them. Can't say anymore.

Russ


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## Steven Hing (Dec 15, 2010)

Hi Guys,

I am from Singapore, I recently brought 4 WC Black Pectoral Calvus, the fish farm told me the fish was imported directly from Germany. Do you guys think this is the real stuff?

Sorry.... I dun know how to post pictures.....

Btw, my nick on youtube is 08SHKY, there are some of mine other Altos video in there too...


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## Steven Hing (Dec 15, 2010)

the video link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQNKU5Y2 ... re=related


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

No, I do not believe that is an Inkfin; rather, it looks like a black calvus to me.

On a true Ink, you would not see that much baring on the forehead and you would not be able to see through the pec fins as you do with the specimen in the video.

My black calvus can get that dark too (even darker).

Russ


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

BioG said:


> Here is one of my "true Ink fin" Although I promised in another thread that I would only call them "Black pectoral" since "ink fin" has become such a loose marketing moniker. The male in the pic is 6 inches so I suppose he could have been collected circa 2003. I know my Tang dealer to be an honest man so whatever that's worth. He says they're wild etc.


Looks awful like the pic of a true inkfin/"Black pectoral" to me. Sooo hard to tell I guess.

All the best James


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Hey James,

From what I understand, you should not be able to see through the pec at all and you do in that video.

Who knows for sure? That is just the standard an importer friend who imported many true inks from TR has taught me. He would know.

Russ


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