# Possible Gold or EBJD in JD brood?



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

I've noticed in my fry (1 week free swimming) some of them - even the bigger ones - have no black blotches that JD fry usually sport. I wonder is it possible that I have either gold or ebjd? I know dad is not blue gene since he's one of my own, but I don't know about mom.


----------



## montellp (Jun 9, 2012)

baby jds sport the black strips on a white back ground


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

I know that, but some of mine are completely colorless.


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

You could have something. Or just late bloomers. Id remove the fry suspect to be ebjd or ggjd and put them in a diff grow tank.


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

I think I will do that, because I've never seen colorless fry...especially among the biggest in the brood.


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

Not too long ago I had a bgjdxebjd spawn and I didnt seperate tbem quick enough and alot of tbe blues died


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

Thing is this spawn is just two JD's...well the female may be BGJD, but I don't think that would be enough to create any EBJD's


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

Yea. There are definitely two different morphs in the brood. They are developing dorsals now and about 25% of them are either colorless or have very light markings. The rest have the black stripes.


----------



## JKnPA (Jan 30, 2012)

Boldstone said:


> Yea. There are definitely two different morphs in the brood. They are developing dorsals now and about 25% of them are either colorless or have very light markings. The rest have the black stripes.


 I'm sure they are just JDs with *very light markings !*
You need a Gold or EBJD parent to get that type of offspring, but I/m sure you know that.


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

Actually the parent would only have to be a blue or gold gene carrier to get a small fraction of ebjd gjd offspring


----------



## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

Actually, both parents would have to be carriers, as both are recessive genes. However, without full knowledge of the genetic background on either fish, anything is possible.


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

Yup. I know this.


----------



## JKnPA (Jan 30, 2012)

Boldstone said:


> I've noticed in my fry (1 week free swimming) some of them - even the bigger ones - have no black blotches that JD fry usually sport.
> *One week seems too soon to tell anything !*
> ......................................................................................................................
> 
> I know dad is not blue gene since he's one of my own, but I don't know about mom.


 *If he is not a blue gene (BJJD)* male , he would have to be a Gold male, or an Elec. Blue male to produce Gold or Elec, Blue offspring! If that were the case, he would not look like a regular JD. 
Maybe I am misreading your above statement about your Male.


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

I could tell mine were diff after about 1-2 weeks.
Ebjdxbgjd-50% ebjd 50%bgjd
Bgjdxbgjd-25% ebjd 75% bgjd
Alot of people will breed two blue genes to produce a smaller amount of electric blues (said to be stronger than fry with one electric parent). To get ebjd or gold jds the parents can simply be gene carriers and pass the gene to future gens.


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

Its sort of confusing with bg and eb then grows more confusing adding the gold gene to the mix. *** yet to even own a gold but id like one.


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

Lol. It's not a deep subject people. I don't mind either way it goes. I just pointed out the apparent difference in the fry.


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

I hope you do have something different.


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

I do too, lol. The male is one of 7 survivors (well now he's the only one) of my very first JD spawn...so idk his genes, he does have intense coloration though ALL the time. My female I bought from a lfs because of her size, so idk her genes either. I wish I could show you all a picture of the clear fry, they're among the biggest in the brood, but like I said earlier...doesn't really matter, there's just a difference.


----------



## JKnPA (Jan 30, 2012)

bluejack23 said:


> Bgjdxbgjd-25% ebjd 75% bgjd


.....................................................
If you breed two blue-gene JDs , you will get a 50% blue-gene, 25% Reg., 25% Elec. blue *not a 75/25%ratio *
If you let BB = Reg.
' " " Bb= blue-gene
" " " bb= Elec. blue 
........... then..............

Bb x Bb = BB ,Bb, Bb, bb = Reg., blue-gene , blue gene, Elec. blue 
** If we are not sure what the Male parent is, then ?????????


----------



## Azedenkae (Apr 19, 2012)

The 'normal' gene (B) is dominant over both the gold (g) and electric blue (b) genes.

From my research, the gold and electric blue genes are codominant.

So these are all the potential mixtures (Genotype /// Phenotype)
BBxBB = 100% BB /// 100% 'normal' coloration
BBxBb = 50% BB, 50% Bb /// 100% 'normal' coloration
BBxbb = 100% Bb /// 100% 'normal' coloration
BbxBb = 25% BB, 50% Bb, 25% bb /// 75% 'normal' coloration, 25% electric blue coloration
Bbxbb = 50% Bb, 50% bb /// 50% 'normal' coloration, 50% electric blue coloration
bbxbb = Lethal cross /// All (most) die off at egg/fry stage
BBxBg = 50% BB, 50% Bg /// 100% 'normal' coloration
BBxgg = 100% Bg /// 100% 'normal' coloration
BgxBg = 25% BB, 50% Bg, 25% gg /// 75% 'normal' coloration, 25% gold coloration
Bgxgg = 50% Bg, 50% gg /// 50% 'normal' coloration, 50% gold coloration
ggxgg = 100% gg /// 100% gold coloration
BgxBb = 25% BB, 25% Bb, 25% Bg, 25% bg /// 75% 'normal' coloration, 25% mixed electric blue - gold coloration
Bgxbb = 50% Bb, 50% gb /// 50% 'normal' coloration, 50% mixed electric blue - gold coloration
ggxBb = 50% Bg, 50% gb /// 50% 'normal' coloration, 50% mixed electric blue - gold coloration
ggxbb = 100% gb /// 100% mixed electric blue - gold coloration
bgxbg = Unknown /// Unknown

I think that's all.

Given a case where we know one parent is a BGJD and the other is either a JD or BGJD, we have this cross:

B? x Bb, which can give us:
BBxBb = 50% BB, 50% Bb /// 100% 'normal' coloration
BbxBb = 25% BB, 50% Bb, 25% bb /// 75% 'normal' coloration, 25% electric blue coloration
BgxBb = 25% BB, 25% Bb, 25% Bg, 25% bg /// 75% 'normal' coloration, 25% mixed electric blue - gold coloration

But now that we know both are a bit iffy, then we have this cross:

B? x B?, which can give us:
BBxBB = 100% BB /// 100% 'normal' coloration
BBxBb = 50% BB, 50% Bb /// 100% 'normal' coloration
BbxBb = 25% BB, 50% Bb, 25% bb /// 75% 'normal' coloration, 25% electric blue coloration
BBxBg = 50% BB, 50% Bg /// 100% 'normal' coloration
BgxBg = 25% BB, 50% Bg, 25% gg /// 75% 'normal' coloration, 25% gold coloration
BgxBb = 25% BB, 25% Bb, 25% Bg, 25% bg /// 75% 'normal' coloration, 25% mixed electric blue - gold coloration

)


----------



## Azedenkae (Apr 19, 2012)

Sorry, the sentence:



> Given a case where we know one parent is a BGJD and the other is either a JD or BGJD, we have this cross:


should be:



> Given a case where we know one parent is a BGJD and the other has a *'normal' coloration*, we have this cross:


:3

Also I know it's not really that important to OP, what the fish becomes, but I wanted to post all the combinations anyways, for future references.


----------



## JKnPA (Jan 30, 2012)

Azedenkae ,
*Thank you*............... for the Time & Effort it took to post that. :thumb: :thumb: 
I hope some of our posters will copy it for Future Reference. :roll:


----------



## Azedenkae (Apr 19, 2012)

Haha, I try my best.


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

UPDATE!!! =]

So it's week 3 and the fry are huge!! I feed them an omega shrimp pellet/egg yolk/earthworm/flake mix (I know that's a lot, but it's a balanced diet) that I make. The results have been awesome. There is still a big difference in colors. I tried to get pics, but fry move too quick so I'm going to wait until they really start to color up.

The neat thing is the pink looking fry are the biggest out the bunch; they are about twice as big as the normal colored black ones. Additionally, for the first time I've witnessed fry cannibalism. The pink ones are eating the weaker smaller fry...and not just the dead ones...they're preying on them. It's unusual to me, but I'm excited to see what's going to become of this weird bunch.


----------



## Azedenkae (Apr 19, 2012)

Grats! On big, healthy fries I mean. Cannibalism is unfortunate, but can't be helped. The larger ones of a batch will always eat the smaller ones - this is basically to remove competition. It's also a natural culling process. You'll be left with the healthiest, strongest, biggest fries. 

P.S. Gold JDs are also sometimes called pink JDs.


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks! I know, but I don't want to call them gold yet (even though they still have no color and are pink). Haha. Time will tell. I guess in my other batches of fry I just didn't notice the cannibalism, but it's very apparent in this batch haha.


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

I have to remove them soon though...everyone. Mom and Dad aren't eating them, but spawning has surfaced again. The lip locking is intense!! So intense that my female has big white sores on her mouth (water is medicated and she's fine). His mouth is pretty scarred too.


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

I hate it when they mess up their face


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

I DO TOO!! I love the colors that come with it though


----------



## gutted (Mar 7, 2012)

no pics???


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

If I could get them to be still and separate I'd post plenty of pics so you can see the difference, but I haven't captured a good one yet.


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

Dang


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

-__- Dang. I changed 75% of the water to discover about 500 new eggs. The fry (still pretty gold in color) are picking at them, but doesn't look like they can fit them in their mouths lol.


----------



## Azedenkae (Apr 19, 2012)

Lol wow. XD Heaps of eggs. Maybe separate the fries? XD


----------



## montellp (Jun 9, 2012)

pics ???


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

If you can ship some I'd be interested in raising out a dozen, maybe a cross section of them.


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

Here's a pic!! The new eggs all died...Daddy was bothering Mom too much for anyone of them to pay attention to them. She's in a not so good position now...he's being very abusive. I'm not keeping (the parents) them much longer. I LOVE my JD's but I need new flavor in my tank, so they'll be going to a friend and the fry have been claimed by a LFS.

See how bright they are? ALL of my other fry I've ever raised were black striped at this age. None of them are black, they outgrew the black ones and did away with them. All my fry now are pink.


----------



## Azedenkae (Apr 19, 2012)

o.o

They're really, really, really bright. o.o


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

Yeap. They're pink (like pink convicts). None sport the black design, a few are grey.


----------



## Azedenkae (Apr 19, 2012)

That's the first thing that popped into my mind - pink convicts.

But they can't be, right? XD


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

Hahahaha!! Right, parents are totally JD's and I don't own a convict.


----------



## Azedenkae (Apr 19, 2012)

Hm. :O

Maybe _albino_ JDs? :O:O:O:O


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

That's what I was thinking!!! But their eyes aren't read...well maybe red eyes isn't a necessarily a trait of albinos.


----------



## Azedenkae (Apr 19, 2012)

Well (true) albinism is linked with red eyes. This could be something else that causes the light coloration. Like in pink convicts and how they lose their stripes.


----------



## JKnPA (Jan 30, 2012)

Azedenkae said:


> Well (true) albinism is linked with red eyes. This could be something else that causes the light coloration. Like in pink convicts and how they lose their stripes.


 *Sounds like a 'Fish Mystery' to me.*
*I think we need to call a 'Fish Detective'....* :roll:


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

Haha. Sounds about right. I guess only time will tell


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

If you ship me some ill grow them out  haha


----------



## Boldstone (Sep 14, 2007)

Haha. We'll see. It's getting cold here, and I've never done shipping before.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

Me too, but first I want several young EBJDs and several carrying the EB, I will drive most anywhere in MI and even to northern Ohio for some.


----------



## ClearMud (Nov 6, 2010)

Bluejack23 the BgjdxBgjd would be 25% Ebjd 50% bgjd 25% normal Jd, but this is off topic. I just didn't want anyone to be confused.


----------



## Jake Levi (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks for this, not off topic to me, right on topic as far as I see.

How is the brood doing?


----------



## Boldstone4 (Oct 23, 2012)

Well they're starting to color up. They are still very light, but still not the normal color. Most of them now are either pink, gray, or pink with a dark spot in the middle. They're starting to get their spangles.


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

ClearMud said:


> Bluejack23 the BgjdxBgjd would be 25% Ebjd 50% bgjd 25% normal Jd, but this is off topic. I just didn't want anyone to be confused.


i too thank you for this as i posted rather hastily and didnt catch my mistake. back to topic: i cant wait to see grown up pics.


----------



## Boldstone4 (Oct 23, 2012)

Haha. Me either, these guys are interesting. I'm just waiting to see if this is just a late color up thing, or are they really pink.


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)

im crossing my fingers for you.


----------



## Boldstone4 (Oct 23, 2012)

THANKS bluejack23!


----------



## bluejack23 (Jan 23, 2012)




----------



## Aaronchen (Nov 8, 2012)

both moms and dads would have to be suppliers, as both are recessive genes :roll: :roll:


----------



## Boldstone4 (Oct 23, 2012)

Lol, I'm aware as this post has been answered time and time again.


----------



## JKnPA (Jan 30, 2012)

Boldstone4 said:


> Lol, I'm aware as this post has been answered time and time again.


 * That's because some people don't read all the posts*............ :roll:


----------

