# fronts and parrots?



## Jojo103 (Mar 18, 2011)

Seems as though this may be a loaded question...I am new to cichids only tank. (lseveral years of freshwater experience, angels/silver dollars gourami.) I got an adult front with a tank years ago and I sold him for next to nothing, I had no idea, I just wanted the tank. He was sweet and I missed him ever since.

I have a 150 gallon looking to stock fronts and parrots. Searched the internet. some say do some say don't. They both seem friendly non-agressive enough, have not done anything yet. advice. FYI, I really do not want to breed fronts.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

If you provide good living conditions for your frontosa - clean water, sufficient food, suitably sized tank - they will breed. They'll never ask you if you want them to do that :lol:

Regarding blood parrot cichlids, I can see the attraction of wanting to combine a red fish with the blue of the frontosa. However, I could not in good conscience recommend the keeping of blood parrot cichlids to anybody. There is a lot of ado made about them being hybrids, and reasonable people can have long discussions about the pro and cons of creating hybrids and never agree. I won't even open that can of worms.

An entirely different point is that blood parrot cichlids are bred to have anatomical deformities. The deformities are not the same in all blood parrots, but I have never seen a blood parrot that was not deformed. Deformities can include a beak-shaped mouth that cannot fully close, abnormal swim bladders that cause an awkward swimming pattern, abnormal spines contributing to the fish's unique shape, and unusually large irises. If you want to know more about this, you could start your reading for example here.

These deformities are a large part of what makes blood parrots unique and attractive to some people. In my view breeding blood parrot cichlids is like breeding three legged dogs for the enjoyment of watching them hop around in a funny way. Don't get me wrong, I know folks who have adopted three legged dogs from the pound, and they can still lead a full and happy life, but that doesn't mean I would encourage the deliberate breeding of dogs that are born with three legs! The equivalent of the latter in the fish world is the blood parrot cichlid. I would urge you not to buy any animals that have been bred to have anatomical deformities. It is the only way to stop people from breeding them.

There are lots of healthy fish that would be happy to share a 150G with your fronts, altolamprologus species being one noteworthy example.


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## Jojo103 (Mar 18, 2011)

Thank you for the response. And extremely well presented case against these fish :thumb: I will not buy one. I guess I read a lot of stories where people enjoyed these fish. Like a mixed breed dog. I didn't realize they were like mutants.

I am new to cichlids, I see the Color as the attraction to these type of fish. but when I looked at the photo of the fish you mentioned I don't get maybe it's the juvenile pics that throw me off, it's not attractive. I saw a video of a beautiful blue fish with a yellow tale and I thought beautiful it was large but not too large. I don't know what kind of fish no label? I guess I think they look nicer as adults? I did see a front and severum together both beautiful, but people were saying no you can't do that...

The front I had briefly was like a puppy if you went to the tank he would rub up against it, and he was gorgeous and large, I liked that. People said you add a few females that fish will not be interested in you any longer... I don't like that...


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## Frazee86 (Aug 1, 2010)

sounds like your looking for a water "pet" and from what i've read oscars can make good fish like what it sounds like you want from a larger fish


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## Jojo103 (Mar 18, 2011)

Hmm.. Oscars. Gonna read up. Mean I thought though? Water pet, yes sounds right, lol!


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## Jojo103 (Mar 18, 2011)

Nice suggestion! Ah ha, yes a water dog! Sounds fun, except I stummbled on a site that said the Oscar took a kids finger off, yikes. Not that I think a kids finger should be in there... How true do you think that was?
They do sound like what I have been looking for... But one site said you could keep one with severum? True or not?

Some person said they feed that fish baby mice, yuck!


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## Frazee86 (Aug 1, 2010)

not much on oscars but could try posting in the Oscar section they can point you in the right direction


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## Jojo103 (Mar 18, 2011)

Not sure I am going that route but OK thanks.


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## SandBagger (Nov 17, 2010)

> but when I looked at the photo of the fish you mentioned I don't get maybe it's the juvenile pics that throw me off, it's not attractive.


Couldn't DIS-agree more!

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=223948&sid=8d3b5e0824475a5becf9adb88df739c7


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## Jojo103 (Mar 18, 2011)

Sorry wasn't trying to offend.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Jojo103 said:


> Sorry wasn't trying to offend.


My wife thinks altolamps are the ugliest fish ever. I love them. I don't think agreement will ever be reached :lol:

But they are a perfect match for fronts in terms of temperament, water parameters, and food requirements.


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## Jojo103 (Mar 18, 2011)

How many fronts do you have with this fish? I know everyone recommends a harem but how about just one front with other fish? He is not that pretty . I do like the rams/fronts, angels, electric yellow. Yes the prettier fish.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Jojo103 said:


> . I do like the rams/fronts, angels, electric yellow. Yes the prettier fish.


Sadly, they don't go together at all.



> I know everyone recommends a harem but how about just one front with other fish


People recommend a harem, as that is how they are happiest and do the best. It is my opinion that if you are not committed to this, perhaps other fish would be a better option?


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## Jojo103 (Mar 18, 2011)

Yeah, I know, you are right. If only you could just have one of everything you liked in one tank.. I did see a beautiful tank here the guy had angels, rams, tetra, some others was nice well rounded. But right now I have three FW community tanks, just wanted something a little different, big.


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## shmity72 (Dec 4, 2007)

i have two parrots big ones because my wife likes them...wife happy=more money for frontosa venture...

so...i've got 2 big orange parrots a clown loach and some sorta cat in my 55.

i want to breed frontosa in the garage.

if you want frontosa and a parrot in the same tank...well more power to you. though it's like, not as cool"" as say: having all the fish from the same lake. and i' don't believe you'll ever find a parrot fish in the wild.

i suggest getting two tanks at least one biggy '55 or larger', and one for the fish that do not co operate like the others in the community do. african cichlids are territorial.

even a little ten gallon hospital tank would be good too if they come down with something.

~sincerely jason


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## Jojo103 (Mar 18, 2011)

Thanks yeah.. I have a 150 in the basement someone said would be nice for a small harem of fronts one male 3 female. And I am purchasing a 72 today I hope. I also have a 24 gal jbj, trying to sell. And a 6 gal fluval edge and a ten gallon hospital. So I have plenty of tanks/ room to do just that. I just have to ask questions to learn, what the right thing is, and try not to question the answer to that . And I like to be sure before I take the plunge. Or before the fish do I should say. Thanks for sharing about the parrots.. Seems like it could be a sore subject.


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## m1ste2tea (Nov 12, 2009)

Blood parrots can be aggressive if they have convict genes. some do and some dont. I personally have two juvi blood parrots(wife wanted) and one is WAY more aggressive than the other. that being said it is a good thing that their mouths are useless at biting with their deformed jaws so I wouldnt expect them to actaully cause damage, just a lot of stress from chasing other fish. and that is something that may ruin the whole idea of keeping those two together for color contrast if one of them will always be hiding from stress.


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## tirzo13 (May 26, 2004)

One of the fish that is said to be in the parentage of Blood Parrots is the Gold Severum.
It contrasts well with the frontosa. 
The WILD water parameters are different, but most tank raised fish have been in the same water for many generations and they keep breeding.

Many Well known people keep SA, CA and New Worlds in different tanks but the same EXACT water.

I have had better success with Severums, and Geophagus than Altolamprologus. 
Course i hate egg/fry eaters, and that is what ALto's evolved to do.

I love Alto's, i just don't think they are the best tankmate. 
It also has to be a big male Alto, a female will easily get munched by an adult frontosa.

There will always be some problem with a tankmate.
They either are more aggressive than a passive frontosa, or they are too small, or they eat frontosa eggs.

Other options are Labidochromis (electric Yellows) can't beat that yellow, but some will nip fins.
so whats better, nipping fins or eating eggs like ALto's do?
I have EY's that nipped fins, and another group that ignored the frontosa, just varies.

Here is a pic of my Alto.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

i had a very aggresive beta (mpimbwe) that i moved to a tank with a blood parrot and 
it killed the parrot a within 24hrs. you just never know what will happen sometime.
he was only about an inch bigger than the parrot and it was always the parrot that was chasing the fronts in the big tank so i didnt think this could happen.


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## toffee (Feb 11, 2006)

I have fronts and blood parrots together for years. Awesome color combo, fronts grew to 12"+ and the largest BP was close to 10". Except the fronts change color often, they don't stay blue consistently. Same for Bps, they somehow don't stay deep orange either. The few times both groups colored up, I did't have my camera ready.

Most visitors to my house all commend how peaceful and colorful. Normally BPs get more attention as they are bit more active and comical. Only problem so far are a few local cichlid association members when they visit, they have to preach purity. Most of the time a few beer can cool that debate down.


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## tirzo13 (May 26, 2004)

yeah, you are not going to get acceptance of BP's at PCCA and SV clubs.
Behavior wise, yes it can work, but most club guys don't dig the hybrids.
Course next time they give you a hard time, ask them how many bushynose plecos they have, if they have the common bushynose they most likely will have hybrids, unless they have wc bushynose like what i caught.
The longfin and albino versions have mixed lineage.

At any rate, back to the opening topic.
It will never be a perfect setup when mixing fish.

No matter WHAT someone suggests there will be problems.
Over many years i have done combos with the PERFECT tankmate.

Calvus and Comps eat fry and eggs. I don't care so much about Burundi eggs, but i get bothered when i lose Moba eggs.
Calvus/Comps are slow growers, and adult female Comps are barely 3 inches unless many years old. Easy for a small adult frontosa to eat.
other perfect tankmates like phenochilus, electric yellows, blue dolphins etc HAVE nipped fins.

Other fish from different parts of the world like Severums and Geophagus, are from well other parts of the world, and that bothers people, even though they have been bred in the same water as the frontosa for many generations.

My point is there is going to be a flaw in anyone's suggestion of tankmate does not matter who they are and how long they been keeping frontosa and their chosen tankmates.

Some things also work better in bigger tanks.
I knew someone who kept flowerhorn and Moba together in 500 gallon tanks.
I knew another who managed to keep a breeding pair of red texas in with frontosa in a 75 gallon tank.
Albino Taiwan reef Protomelas (actually Taiwanee reef, I been there) are more peaceful than phenochilus, blue dolphin and EY's, and they had worked a little better. ALbino eureka reds also sometimes can work, but they vary like EY's and Haps.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

toffee said:


> they have to preach purity.





tirzo13 said:


> most club guys don't dig the hybrids.


The hybrid issue has been discussed over and over again in various cichlid related forums on the web, including CF. I would like to ask everybody to stop beating a dead horse.

That said, you might want to go back to the beginning of this thread and read my initial posting (2nd post in the thread). As I have explained there in more detail, the issue with Blood Parrots is NOT that they are hybrids, it is that they have been bred to have anatomical deformities. In the view of many people, including myself, the breeding of Blood Parrots constitutes cruelty to animals.


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