# "Shellie" & "Julie" Stocking suggest



## whiskeyriver (Nov 29, 2011)

Hi there. New around here. I plan on setting up a mini Tang tank. I recently purchased a 20 long. I am used to having much larger tanks, but with a young child, space is eaten up by play areas and safe zones where she can't tip the thing over on herself, etc.

The tank is currently cycling with 3 black skirts (yeah, I know, terrible and horrible of me). It's been cycling for about 5 weeks and the skirts are doing great and things seemed to have leveled out, but I am having brown algae blooms, so I am going to give it until after New Years to make sure everything is perfect. I suspect it is from my tap water chemistry in addition to keeping the light on too long (roughly from 8 AM to 7:00 PM). I am going to buy a timer to have it turn on around Noon or so and have it run until 8 so I can enjoy it when I get home.

I have an AquaClear 30 with a foam, carbon and BioMax insert. I have a 30" SolarMax Deep Blue HE light with a clear glass hinged hood. I have 1 medium-sized "Texas holey rock" and have purchased some limestone chunks to set up a little rock wall also. I have a 2"+ layer of fine black "Tahitian Moon" freshwater aquarium sand. I have yet to purchase shells. Still searching for the right ones. I am also going to put a bag of crushed coral in the filter to buffer it even higher, and plan to add a Tang homemade buffer to it as well. My water chemistry currently is as such:

1. pH: 7.8-8.0 (tap), 8.2 (tank)
2. Hardness: using the cruddy little dip strips, it reads off-the-charts hard (200 + Gh/Kh)
3. Nitrates: 0
4. Nitrites: 0
5. Ammonia: 0
6. Temp: 78

On to the fish. I was thinking about keeping some Neolamprolongus Occelatus and a couple/few Julidochromis Transcriptus in the same tank.

First, is this advisable? They are both toughies, but from what I read, typically tough on conspecifics more than other species. Maybe that's a misnomer.

Second, how many of each would you keep in such a _small_ tank? I was thinking 5/6 Occies and 3/4 Transcriptus at first. Too many? Should I scale it back? It would be nice to get a breeding pair of both. Or maybe should I only have breeding Occies and just a couple of lone wolf Transcriptus?

I mainly want the Transcriptus to add another cichlid with _color_ to the tank to go with the cool behavior of the Occies (a nice way of saying that, although they are pretty in their own special way...they are pretty drab looking fish), and I wanted to keep in Tanganyika appropriate. Tang killies get too large, etc., etc.

Any suggestions? Sorry for the long-winded post. Thanks in advance, and glad to be here!


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Hello!

I have been reading up on occies as well, and from what I have found they will work out the numbers for themselves down to a pair or mebbe trio (they like some space), so you may want to have an escape route planned for the outcasts.

Another site with lots of similar builds as yours is shelldweller.com lots of good infor there.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Are you starting with Juvies or Adults? I would expect you to end up with a pair of Julies and a pair/trio/whatever of Occies, but sometimes the fish have other ideas . It is often recommended to start with a handful (5-6) of juvies and let them pair up, then find new homes for the ones that get kicked off the island so to speak.

My 29 gallon tank (same footprint as your 20-long) is currently the home to Julidichromis "transcriptus gombi"* and (neo?)Lamprologous Multfiasciatus. I started with 5 of each, lost 1 of each in a re-cycle mishap, and now things have settled down and both species are breeding. 2 of the julies paired up and claimed the rock half of the tank, the other 2 are hiding out together in the far corner of the shellbed. The multies have spread out to claim most of the shell-bed, though they tolerate the presence of the other 2 julies as long as they stay in their corner. As soon as I have somewhere to put the rejected Julies I'm going to try to trap them.

Occelatus are of course a different beast than Multies -- I wouldn't really expect more than 1 male to work out long-term (again, sometimes the fish have their own ideas), but if I were building this tank I'd start with a handful of juvies and let them shake it down themselves.

Here's a photo and a video of my tank (forgive the poor quality, my iPhone camera sucks) :

This was during the (fishless) cycle so please ignore the low waterline 










And here's a 30-second video from before Turkey Day... there's a new batch of babies since then and the multies are getting quite bold. You don't see the Juli babies, they're shy.






Hope you enjoy your new tank, I'm certainly enjoying mine!

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## whiskeyriver (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. Very helpful, indeed. Yes, I planned on starting with juries of each species and let them sort it out. The LFS says they will take the outcasts back, but I likely will jist give them to a friend so they can start their own tank.

I like the look of that setup Rick. Makes me think I should have gotten the 29 gal. myself! Where'd you get your shells? They look attractive in the tank. Is that some sort of slate? I may get some myself to lay across the limestone (which I want to keep in there for the buffering).

Thanks for the site link skurj. Very helpful.

So, does anything I posted above seem out of whack? Or am I heading down th right road?

Thanks again!


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Thanks  The shells are green and gold mouth turbos from shellhorizons.com. The rock isn't slate, I believe it's flagstone? My mom built a little rock wall out of them, so I stole some of the extras when we visited. I picked out some thinner pieces for the wall and some slightly thicker pieces as well, just looking for ones that might have visual interest. You can probably find them at any garden or landscaping supply store.

I got my fish at the "local" (2 hours away) club swap meet. I've been planning to ask the LFS if they'll trade store credit for fish (for when the babies grow out), but didn't think about doing that with the 2 that aren't going to stay in the 29g long-term. I'm tempted to put them in with the guppies but that might terrorize the poor things (the guppies, not the julies)! I've got a spare 10 I could put them in until I find them a better home though, if the tension escalates to violence.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## whiskeyriver (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks Rick! Very helpful information.

Anyone have any other input on this setup?


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## whiskeyriver (Nov 29, 2011)

Guess not! :lol:


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Just take pictures! And let us know how it works for you.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## Bodenhimer (May 1, 2011)

u dont really need that many shells. It is ideal to have some open sand so the fish can dig and shove sand around. Very fun part of having htese fish!!. But i like how he seperated the 2 habitats. mayb less shells.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Bodenhimer said:


> u dont really need that many shells. It is ideal to have some open sand so the fish can dig and shove sand around. Very fun part of having htese fish!!. But i like how he seperated the 2 habitats. mayb less shells.


Need that many shells? of course not. However, "In the lake, they make their homes in expansive beds of Neothauma shells. Huge colonies numbering in the thousands thrive in these massive shell beds.". ( http://www.minnfish.com/forum/viewtopic ... highlight= ) Take a look at the photo of a shell-bed near Mbete Island in that photo and you'll see the inspiration for the shellbed in my tank. I would argue that whether it is "ideal" to have open sand for the multies to dig depends on your goals, but I agree that its fun to watch them bulldoze!

My goal (impossible as it is to achieve in a 29gallon tank) was to mimic their natural environment as much as possible, while still adding a second species so that I get to watch the interaction. So far both species are keeping pretty much to themselves, unlike when I kept multies with some leleupi in an 80 gallon tank. There was a DMZ with posturing from both parties in that tank .

Next time I build a tank like this I will probably try to use a lighter weight shell than the turbos, to see if they feel like rearranging. I don't think they can move these turbos at all. They're still fun to watch though, especially the babies, and when what I assume is the "Dad" goes around and herds the other adults (or chases off the subdominant julies).

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## whiskeyriver (Nov 29, 2011)

Here's the tank layout I settled on:














































7 N. Brevis Katabe and 5 J. Transcriptus Bemba are on their way to me now. The poor little tank-cyclin' white skirts will be evicted upon arrival. They done good, though. They done good...


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Lookin good! I'm less of a fan of the black sand, but that's a personal thing  New pics when the occupants arrive?

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## whiskeyriver (Nov 29, 2011)

Rick_Lindsey said:


> Lookin good! I'm less of a fan of the black sand, but that's a personal thing  New pics when the occupants arrive?
> 
> -Rick (the armchair aquarist)


Thanks. I actually think I'm going to build the rock wall even higher. Found a free source of good limestone.

It's strange, though. Your tank's footprint looks larger than mine, yet it's not. It just _looks_ so much bigger. Most 20 longs I see online just look bigger, even though I know they are not. It's bizarre.[/i]


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## elilang (Dec 18, 2011)

hi, im attempting the same basic mix in a 14 gal bio cube. biocubes are great because of that 
added filtration. so I have a pair of julitichromis that have just settled down and am planning on a few shellies as well. here is my setup.


photo by elielilang, on Flickr


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

I have julies (ornatus) and multies in my 75 gallon. Things were fine until the julies started spawning and picked a cave about 6 inches from the shell cluster. They are being pretty mean to the multies and there have been torn fins. I put a big flat rock between them for a visual barrier and that has helped somewhat. The julies consider any continuous pile of rocks to be theirs, no matter how big. So in a small tank, you should separate the rocks from the shells as much as space allows. Things would also stay peaceful if you had just male julies.


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## elilang (Dec 18, 2011)

hi, 
thanks for the info. I will see how it goes. the julies do seem to be taking over the tank.
im not against a julies species tank... but after the new year im going to try a few shellys out. 
as you know every fish and every tank is different. but im not afraid to return fish if things get 
violent. do you feel like the shellies ( particularly Lamprologus ocellatus gold ) can hold their own? even after territory has been claimed by the julies?


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

I kept 2 distinct territories in my tank, the far left being rocks on sand, the far right being piles-o-shells, with a sort of rock-wall between them. I think having distinctly different territories, each tailored to a single species has helped reduce aggression in my 29g (same footprint as your 20). If you run into trouble you can always move the rocks in one direction and the shells in the other!

Occies are spunky little things (though not so much as lepidolamps!) -- Depending on the relative size/age of your julies and occies, you might be fine. If not I'd try rescaping before giving up on keeping both species!

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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