# yellow labs overly aggressive now with pictures



## Cuppie Cake

ok so I have a 55g with 8 fish. 4 cichlids, 2 yellow labs(male & female) 1 electric blue, and 1 FH. The other 4 are, an eel, catfish, pleco, and a bottom feeder. Sorry dont know what it is. Yes I now know the FH has to be moved. I will be trading him this weekend for some demsoni's.

Over the last 10 days or so, both my labs have become aggressive. The male (about 3 inches) has been chasing away the electric blue and FH. last 3 days I have seen him nipping at the pleco, who is a good 5 inches long. My personal opinion is that the pleco hangs out in a cave, and I think the yellow wants the cave fore himself. Every time the pleco comes out of the cave the yellow will go in and swim through it. Then will charge the pleco if it tries to get in. But he wont attack the pleco if he is already in the cave.

Next is the female(maybe 2 inches) yellow lab, who is on the opposite side of the tank, and who has removed all the rocks down to the filter, and made herself a hole, under a piece of driftwood. She too will charge at anything that comes near the hole. Or she will just block the entrance.

I thought perhaps they were getting ready to mate, but dont understand why they picked opposite sides of the tank.

thanks for any feedback you have to offer

below is a couple pictures. You can see the pleco in the cave I am talking about in a few pictures. And the white on the yellow lab is glare from the camera. I cant turn off the flash.


















This is the bottom feeder that I dont know what it is, in case its important.









here is a picture of the fishies in front of the driftwood about 3 weeks ago, before the female got possessive of it









This is her today guarding her hole.


----------



## SeanF1979

I'm not sure if you want to go with the demsoni. From what I've read they only do well in groups of 10-12 they may not be a good mix for the yellow lab either. It sounds like the yellow lab has his territory and is chasing everybody away. I would suggest adding more rock caves. If you do a google search in images and type in "african cichlid rock caves" you will get a better idea of what I'm talking about. If it is another female lab he may be chasing her around so she will breed with him. I have 4 yellow labs and my males is always chasing the females even if they are holding babies or not. He also chases every other fish around the tank if they get close to his territory. He is in charge of my 75 gallon that's for sure. I hope that helps a little bit. Maybe others have more advice or a different opinion.


----------



## Number6

in a 55g tank, the territorial nature of these cichlids will be a big problem. They are acting VERY normally... 
I'd be trying to drive a flowerhorn away too if I was stuck in a glass cage with something that was going to outgrow and kill me one day 

Yellow labs are not a pair forming fish, and you may not even have a female, so I would suggest that they are simply trying to eek out a living in what is about to become a very crowded living space.

I'd say that it's time for you to decide which is the main fish you want to keep in this tank and pick compatible fish with that primary choice.


----------



## fancy diver

Maybe its that colorful background or substrate. The fish may feel like their on acid. :roll:


----------



## Cuppie Cake

thank you both for your replies. I am new to fish keeping, and I went on the advice at the LFS. He said that my FH and yellow labs were going be ok.

Since then, I have learned a lot about my fish. And changing what I can. The demasoni I will be getting are coming out of a tank with yellow labs. I am also hoping to get 2 female labs as well.

I will be getting some rocks and changing the landscaping in the tank. The one i have is mostly a carry over from my tetra/guppy tank. Again, after the fact I have gained more knowledge. I am doing some more research as to the different kinds of bottom I can use. I am also going to add a couple of tetra pots to the tank in the mean time.

I think the sand looks beautiful, but havent decided yet.

I am also thinking of getting rid of the electric blue. He isnt so blue anymore. And I think the demasoni will add the color I am looking for. At least I hope so.


----------



## Dizzcat

This setup needs rocks more than anything. Looks like there are only two places to have a cave and they each claimed one. This is normal and why so much rock and caves are needed for an African setup to work.

More Mbuna helps spread the aggression around. One male and one female just don't work so well, they do not pair up. The best is 1 male to 3-4 females. Unless you get a lot of Demasoni 12-15, one will kill off the other till there is only one. I would not get the Dems until you get the hang of Mbunas and what they need. You should look thru the profile section and pick Mbuna with similar aggression levels. Instead of getting Dems, why not get more Yellow labs to help the aggression. I am surprised he has not harassed the lone female yet. She has probably picked that side because she is not ready to spawn. When she is ready she will show him and he will entice her to his spot.

Looking at other African setups is a good idea, it will give you an idea what you need to do to help change things.

This is what I mean, lots of holes for caves, lots of rocks so they each have a hidey hole to retreat to.


----------



## Cuppie Cake

What a beautiful tank.

The dems are coming from a trade of my FH.

So I need to go and do the rock sooner than later correct?

Where would I find that pumice looking rock at?


----------



## raggs715

you dont necessarily need that kind of rock, what i did was went to a landscaping yard and bought a bunch of river rock and piled it up and it made its own caves and tunnelsif you are going to swich the subsrate you might want to get your hands on a 10 gallon and load it with hiding spots pvc pipes and such and put the fish you plan on keeping in the 10G for 2-3 days after you have swiched out your substrate...just use exsisting water and hook up your exsisting filter until your tank it up and runninng...obvioudl gravel is a personal taste i went with crushed coral but i keep wishing i went with pool filter sand.... good luck and to many questions is never enough! :thumb:

also, use a black backround it really brings out their colors!

that bottom feeder is a yo yo loach...loaches do better in groups of three or more as an FYI


----------



## Dizzcat

Thanks 

Yeah, the rocks need to be sooner, especially if you are adding more. These rocks are lava rock. I got all mine from a local fish store I use. It is about $1.60 a pound, so I picked up pieces here and there. I also have pieces of black PVC pipe underneath all the rocks for added caves.

This is my setup when they were small, 2-3". They outgrew this setup because the rocks did not make big enough caves. I just collected a bunch of river rocks from my church yard, boiled them really well and added them.


----------



## Cuppie Cake

thanks I have found a local "rock Store" and I am heading there now.. lol

Will have to wait on changing the substrate most likely. I will stick with the gravel I think.


----------



## raggs715

Can we get a full shot of the tank??? it looks like you have A LOT of gravel in there, you could prob remove a decent amount of it....

Also if the rocks are big make sure you get a non contaminated brush clean the heck out of them, if they are to big to boil just put in a bathtub and pour boiling water of them a few times.


----------



## SeanF1979

No problem on the advice. Yes adding more rock caves and lots of them will help. Not sure what the FH stands for. By blue fish do you mean Electric Blue Ahli? Here is a picture of my 75 gallon with a couple of different setups. The newest one is first. I also have pictures of my 55 gallon(before it started leaking now I have a 50 gallon). They may help you see the rock caves. I do need to add a black background though to bring out my fish colors. I would have many more pictures of my setups(I change them around every month when I clean), but that would take up 3 extra pages on here.


----------



## Dizzcat

:lol: Sean, I know what you mean! I may use the same rocks, but change them up all the time! My fish seem to really enjoy the new setups each time. After each one they spend hours exploring and setting up new territories. I also find it breaks up aggression pretty good because one fish does not keep one spot for long.

This is how it was 2 days ago before my last change up (the top pick from the other post) 
In this setup I had the middle empty and it was like the mutual playground. No one fish claimed it and they all dug in it and hung out.


----------



## SeanF1979

Yep same thing I do. I have less rock caves now because I have adopted out half of my fish. Great looking setups you have and you bring up another good point about changing it around so the fish find new territory. That does help big time. Ok enough of my hijacking the thread.


----------



## Dizzcat

Cuppie, you can get a 50lb bag of play sand at your local hardware store for about $3. That is what I used. Just rinse it really, really good. When I changed over, I spent a few days cleaning the sand, then when it was ready I put all my fish in a bucket with an air-store and scooped the rock substrate out, then put the sand in. Filled it back up and put the fish in. The better you rinse it the less cloudy it will be. Mine only clouded up for a couple hours because I was very anal about washing it first :lol:

These fish LOVE to dig, that is why most people go with sand. When adding your new rocks, make sure to push it down deep into the substrate until its touching bottom. Fish will dig all the way down and cause a rock pile tumble if they are not deep enough! This is one reason why I only have about an inch of sand. I started with about 3" cuz it looked good, but as they grew and got better at digging they really made a mess! I find the hills and valleys they make now are not as dangerous. Less sand to move = less rock falls :roll:


----------



## Cuppie Cake

ok back from my little trip to the rock store... My husband told me I must be flippin' nuts if I thought he would be ok with me spending 200 bucks on river rocks... lol

He said for 200 bucks he will go get some out the river his ****** self... lol Which sent him into a whole 'nother conversation about how it was a good idea that he bought the rhino....

Sean you tanks are amazingly beautiful.

Anything special I need to do to the terra cota flower pots I bought?

Here is a shot I took the other day of my tank. Please Omit the finger prints, my 4 yr old loves to watch the fish as well.


----------



## raggs715

Soak the pots for 24-48 hours to be safe and then dump the water out put fresh water in the bucket for a few hours then test the water to be safe...i had terra cotta pots that spiked my amonia and nitrite...

i think you can saftley remove a lot of that gravel maybe enough so its only about half an inch over the base? maybe an inch...

and on the rocks dont try to make caves just stack them and you will make caves w/o realizing it.


----------



## Cuppie Cake

is there a reason why one would use PVC pipe as opposed to some of those hamster trail plastic pipes?

Ok will start the pots to soak

I was told the more rocks we had the less often we would need to vacuum them.


----------



## Dizzcat

Yeah, I agree, remove a lot of the gravel. Your rock piles will be much more stable if you do. As it is you wont be able to push the main/largest rocks deep enough. Put your biggest ones in first and build from there. If you can wiggle the pile they can tumble it, so work with it until they are all stable. I also suggest a dark blue or black background too, the one you have distracts from the fishes natural colors.

Good luck! Show us a pic when its updated! :thumb:


----------



## Cuppie Cake

doubt I will be able to get hubby to want to change the back ground... lol he spent 2 hours getting that one on 3 weeks ago..

So to put the rocks in I would need to do about a 50% water change?


----------



## Dizzcat

I would say about a 30%. The rocks are going to displace some water and you don't want to do a small 20% just to have them cause your water to overflow. Trust me, I know :lol:


----------



## raggs715

Does the backround have another color on the opposite side??? if it has a plain color i would flip it around, other wise sneak black poster board there when hes out and the difference will be amazing trust us on that one.


----------



## Cuppie Cake

lmao I dont want to imagine that.

So I am too assume I would need to "BOIL??" any rocks my hubby might find down at the river camp? How long do I boil them?

I live in the south so I have a crawfish boil pot large enough to boil any rock that would go into the tank.

The back side is a light blue. I will check into getting a black background.


----------



## Dizzcat

Even a light blue background would be better than what is on there now. :wink:

Boil them, then boil them again. Over and over. I boiled mine for 10 minutes, dumped the water, filled back up and reboiled them. Better safe than sorry. You might even want to soak them in a light bleach mixture (1 part bleach, 6 part water) because if they come from a river there is going to be all kinds of "stuff" living on them. Soak them real good in water that has 4x's the amount of declor when done. Make sure if you use bleach that you rinse them good enough to not smell it anymore.


----------



## Cuppie Cake

what is declor? And use 4 parts declor to 1 part water?

And I will add the bleach as well. Cause well these are Louisiana waters...

Just so I am sure on the procedure, never done this before.. ha ha wait till I tell my dad I will be boiling rocks... LMAO

so I should soak the rocks over night in a bleach mixture
then rinse
then bring to boil boil 10 mins
rinse
refill bring to boil boil 10 mins
rinse
refill bring to boil boil 10 mins for good measure
rinse
soak ???hours in declor mixture

do I rinse the declor mixture off or are they good to go in the tank now?

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP. It really is appreciated


----------



## Dizzcat

> is there a reason why one would use PVC pipe as opposed to some of those hamster trail plastic pipes?


No, you could use them. They will outgrow them over time tho, as they get bigger they will no longer fit. Mbuna are big, stocky fish full grown. I like the black PVC pipe because you can't really see them under the rocks. The hamster pipes don't come in natural colors and I don't like anything in mine that isn't natural color or takes away from the fish color. PVC is like $3 for a 6 foot piece. I cut mine into 5" pieces, the perfect size for a cave. If you get PVC, make sure it is at least 2 1/2" wide. I think I am about the only one who does this  But it makes my rock pile more stable to sit on top of a row of 3 and adds 3 more caves too. They prefer them.



> what is declor? And use 4 parts declor to 1 part water?


Declor is the water treatment stuff you add when doing a water change. Bleach is like ammonia, so you need to neutralize it. If I bleach something like rocks I fill a bucket then add 3-4 cupfuls of the dechlorinator. I use Prime, I like it best.



> so I should soak the rocks over night in a bleach mixture
> then rinse
> then bring to boil boil 10 mins
> .....
> soak ???hours in declor mixture


You only need to bleach it for maybe 10 minutes.

Fill the bucket with water, add about 1/4th cup (1/8 if its a small bucket) bleach, soak for 10 minutes, (you want just enough bleach to kill off the stuff, not a lot)
rinse it off under the sink, (until you no longer smell bleach)
then let it soak in the declor/water mix for about 1/2 hour. 
After all that do your boiling.

A pain huh?  But you want to be sure there is no bleach to get in the tank and no unwanted "things" from the rock either.

My mom came over while I was boiling rocks one time. I had two pots going and two cookie sheets with some cooling. She thought I was nuts! :lol:

See the pipes hiding under the rock? This is what I mean about the PVC.


----------



## Cuppie Cake

yea a lot of work. I didnt realize how much. The LFS guy said that it wasnt much different than my tetra guppy tank.

I realize now that most likely 90% of what he said was to make a sale... lol

which makes me wonder...

My tank does not have a heater, but the temp in the tank hovers between 76-78 I take blood thinners, so my house stays warm. Even in the summer, my ac is set at 80.

they have been in this temp water since I got them beginning of the year.


----------



## raggs715

LFS store people will def do that, consult this forum 1st before you do anything you will get the non sales advice...

the warmer the tank the faster their motabalism the cooler the tank the more chance of them getting ich cooler menaing below 78-79... i would reccommend a heater it cant hurt and if it gets to hot in the summer just open the hood to encourage evaporation which will cool it down.


----------



## Kris1991

*that bottom feeder is a Botia loach*. I had 1 big one (about an inch long) and two small ones half that size. 
The yellow lab that i have is aggressive and had nipped the small ones to death when i left for work one day.

Annoying.[/b]


----------



## GTZ

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 :wink:


----------

