# The white babies of My Bemba



## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

Hello,

I have experienced a really interesting event two years ago. One of my female Bemba's Baby was borned in white. Not all babies, one of the four or five babies was borned like that. The other ones were normal bemba. The white ones turned from white to yellow after a few months. And the situation has become even more interesting. Now, they grew up, some of them are two years old. And they are completely yellow. But i cant figure out how did it happen. Can anyone explain this situation? Or did you see anything like this? In the meantime, I suspect the fact that male fish is bulu point.(I bought it as bemba when he was 3cm.) Now I'm adding photos and videos. Waiting for comments, thanks.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/dscf2566o.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26/1001737x.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/dscf1679k.jpg/
These fishes mother are the same. Incredible, is not it?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...012199511.jpg/
Here is video.










And here is, newborns video. Can u see the colour? White and black babies.


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## Cooder (Jul 19, 2011)

To me it looks like the black head and tail have disappeared to just have the yellow all over the body, very interesting though, cant wait to hear what the experts have to say.


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## Phildo (Jul 29, 2004)

I'm no expert but it would appear your original breeders carry alleles that show a different color morph, recessive alleles that have a small chance of showing because of the regular, dominant color allele/s. Probably similar to albinism or other color morphs in many species.

The next step would be to isolate the white offspring and breed them and see what happens.


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## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

Thanks for interest,

I agree about recessive alleles, but the thing is how do they carry these genes? I have doubts about hybridization. Because the male one look likes a impure bulu point. Maybe the parents of these fish have sp.black caramba's genes and the babies can be caramba red bishop.

Unfortunately, white offspring didn't breed. Because three of the biggest are female, males are not adult yet. Mother of these with fish breeds 1 or 2 white babies at a time.
That is why i dont have male one for now, so i need to wait a couple of months.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

There is a Golden form from the Kiriza location,don't see why it couldn't happen in Bemba.

A golden I think is a leusistic trait that is seen in many fish and reptiles.The eyes are not red like an albino but lack dark pigment.

A golden Tropheus goes for $40-50 a fish here so they are quite rare and sought after.


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## eeztropheus (Jan 10, 2010)

So the females are Bemba and the male is bulu point, so they are hybrid? In any case what you have is pretty amazing and you may have stumbled onto a gold mine $$$$...


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## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

Yes, as you said; the female one is bemba and the male is bulu point. They are amazing and valuable but i dont think selling them, at least for now. But the problem is we couldn't figure out how did it happen.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Not seen this in Bemba or Bulu point but seen it in Kiriza









Me I like your normal Bemba most just as I like normal Kiriza most.

Personaly think caramba red bishop and Red Phoenix just ugly moneymakers.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Could not help but notice this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vctdvux ... creen&NR=1

Yours too?


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## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

So you say they are kiriza gold. Yes this video is my. I named the video as "Kiriza Bemba Gold" because of their parents. So i think they are kiriza gold, too. But i cant be sure about that.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I can not say for sure.

Normal looking Kiriza can carry these genes unshown but I do not know if they would show in a hybrid.
I guess they could if matched up later.
Tropheus can gather each others eggs or young. The stuff spat by a female may not be all her own young or even related to her.

It kind of depends on what all the Tropheus you have in there were.

It seems as if your source of Tropheus is unreliable as to type and none hybrid, so we may never know for sure.

Do you know if they breed true yet?

Seems to be some variation in them, which I have not seen in Kiriza yellow. A simple selected mutation I think in those. So yep it is possable its something new and it is also possable its not. Depending on whether there is Kiriza in them.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

It may be a similar but new mutation in these. After all its just the black pigment (melanin?) missing.

All the best James


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## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

Thanks for your comments,

There was no tropheus except which i bought as bemba when they were 1". But as you see i cant even be sure about their kind, bemba or other kind of sp.black?..

Let me show you a foto of my yellow fish brother. They borned from same mother and one of them is yellow and one of them borned black.










http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/80 ... 99511.jpg/

The black one is look like a black kiriza, is not it? The thing is these two fish borned from same mother even same time.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Yep that one looks at least mostly Kiriza.

I repeat because it comes out from a females mouth it does not make it her baby as they can collect and brood another females eggs or young.

With your mix both of variants and species its going to be I think imposable to figure out exactly what happend to produce the yellow guys.

All the best James


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## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

Yes you are right about that but i m pretty sure these babies are babies of that female fish. Because it happens all the time when that fish breed. And this make the other possiblity near zero, at least i think that... 
But i want to make this clear, when the yellow fish came out, there was not any yellow fish in my aquarium. All of the fish were bemba or black kiriza or any kind of sp.black, i dont know... The certain thing is these yellow fish borned from a tropheus which one is sp.black. So that sp.black female can't take any other yellow fish eggs.

Running out of hope, i think we will never learn mystery of this for certain.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Sorry I may have assumed knowledge that I thought common knowledge.
Yellow Kiriza produce only 1/4 yellow young. The rest are iether culled or dumped on unsuspecting hobbyists.

Kind of one reason I do not like em or pretty much any line breeding.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Sorry correction. they produce 1/4 fry that die (homozygote), 1/4 yellow, 1/4 carriers but look wild type and 1/4 none carriers that look wild type.

What to do with so many unwanted fish?
Well you can guess.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

If you breed carriers, some of the young will be yellow, some will die and some will be carriers and some none carriers.

If you breed a carrier with a none carrier, some of the young will be yellow, some carriers and some none carriers. (no deaths)

The big prob is spotting the difference beween a carrier and a none carrier.
Some claim they can tell carriers in some of them by a slight lack of black.


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## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

Thanks for your help,

Is this special to kiriza gold? I mean 1/4 of the babies dies, and 1/4 of them would be yellow etc. as you said. 1.5 year ago, a disabled baby borned from the parents of yellow fish. The baby was completely dark. And it wasn't swimming as well. The black disabled baby lived over than 1 year and became only 1-1.5" and it died a couple of months ago. Is this simillar to what you have written? By the way, the biggest yellow fish is keeping her eggs for 3 days. She has not given birth yet, all the time she have failed. I hope this time she will have her babies finally. Because all yellow fish was borned from the bemba mother. I m very excited for this. I hope we will figure out mystery of these interesting fish.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I think its an unusual mutation to be so hard to keep the line going.
Lots of other line bred guys suffer different but less extreeme problems.
If yours is a new mutation then who knows you might be able to breed em pure yellow without deaths and the other problems folk get with Kiriza yellow. Sure hope so but dought it. Still seems the most likely to me that the Kiriza yellow mutaition got into crossed into other Tropheus and is now cropping up in your young.

All the best James


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## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

Thanks, You have been really helpfull. I got to tell this your theory is the most logical idea to me. I think time might help us to figure out how did this happen. Because it seems like we cant go further before the yellows breed themselves. I hope this time my elder yellow fish keeps her eggs so we can close to be the results. There is something bothers my mind, you said 1/4 of the babies die. Is this happen before the mother fish leave the eggs? Or later?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I am not realy an expert on this but think they (homozygotes) must die or folk would have bred an all yellow Kiriza line that produces all and only yellow Kiriza a long time ago. No other logical explanation. I do not know when these deaths happen. It could be very early before they are released and go un noticed. Or be later.

All the best James


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## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

There are some new photos including babies and big ones.


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## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

Hello again, there is a new video of my "Kiriza Bemba Golds" The female bemba fried 5 yellow puppies and i have 18 of them now.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Well whatever they are I am sure you will have no problem selling em.
Me I like em as they were without selection but I think I am in the minority.

All the best James


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## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

Here is a new video of my Kiriza Bemba Golds. I added 12 bemba babies to see the results of yellow & bemba coupling. Because yellow ones dont breed among themselves yet. I will wait with patience. Thank you to everyone who reads about my miracle fish.


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## EnesMahmud (Feb 3, 2013)

The thing i've been waiting for has just happened. And i wanted to share with you my yellow couple's breeding video.


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