# Well. I did something stupid.



## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Let me start by saying I haven't kept CA or SA cichlids since the 90's. For the past year I've been focused on Lake Tang Africans. I see of the gorgeous planted tanks w/ driftwood and long for another SA tank. Due to my high pH and hard water, the Africans were just a better choice.

So....I was at my local LFS today. While browsing, I saw a tank full of green terrors, firemouths, and 4 juvie jags. The jags were about 1 1/2" long, while the terrors and firemouths were about 3 1/2" long. The GTs and the firemouths were beating the snot out of the smaller jags in the tiny 10 gal tank. Needless to say the jags were looking a little rough.

As I watched, I saw one jag in particular fending off the onslaught. He was spunky and looked healthy. The price on the glass said "Managuense - $4.39". So, I did what I shouldn't have. I was completely impulsive and bought him.

I know how big these guys get, and I know how aggressive they are. I don't really have the room or the tank to house him right now. For the time being, he will be the sole occupant of a 20 gal long :? I suppose though, I now have an excuse to get a bigger tank right?


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

*update*

Just found awesome deal on a 55 gallon tank on Craiglist. Since I already have a spare 55 gallon stand with all the addons, it is the perfect setup until this guy gets up over 8" or so. By then I'll be in a different apartment and I'll be able to get a 200+ gal tank.

Now that I have a bit more room...I'm considering rescuing the remaining 3 jags at the LFS in hopes of getting a viable pair.

I'm on my way to pic it up right now.

*squee!*


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

firstly I'd like to say congrats on the great purchase... even though you didn't have any room lol.

just a warning, the 55g will likely not even last him a year, he may be at 8-9" in 8 months or so.


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

:lol: You sound just like me. I always buy fish so I have an excuse to get a bigger tank. I call it gas lighting.....you start out small and then just keep turning up the flame....or the gallons as in the case. It has worked pretty good for me so far. :lol:


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Well...there are two big problems with diving into this.

1. Space constraints - My apartment has no room for a tank larger than 48" x 12.5", which really limits me to 55 and 67 gallon tanks. This is a big problem because I already have a 55 gallon Tang community tank in the dining room.

2. I got laid of recently - This means I'm pooooooooooor 

On the positive side, for $40 I picked up a very thick glass 55 gallon (the glass is almost 1/2" thick!) and the guy threw in the wood stand, a Perfecto hood & 48" T12 light strip, and a Penguin 160 filter for free. The tank weighs a ton...the roomie and I had a bear of a time getting it down to the "fishroom" (my basement :lol: ).

The really amazing thing is, I fit it all in a 2 door Civic hatchback with room to spare :thumb:

I'll have some pics up soon.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

You have a basement in an apartment? please explain THIS situation :lol: I didn't know you could get apartments like that!

you fit a 4' tank in a Civic? CONGRATS to what I would have thought was an impossible task.


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## sjwrx (Apr 15, 2009)

gage said:


> You have a basement in an apartment? please explain THIS situation :lol: I didn't know you could get apartments like that!


i remember having a conversation with someone from the US and what we call apartments are different from what they called it. Their apartments are like town houses or something like that, it was a weird conversation lol.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

ooooooooooooh, so kind of like a rented house then, I got ya, ya, apartments here are big multiple story building with hundreds of rooms for rent.


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

gage said:


> ooooooooooooh, so kind of like a rented house then, I got ya, ya, apartments here are big multiple story building with hundreds of rooms for rent.


They are like that here, if you have the coin. I had a sub par job, so I have a two bedroom apartment with a roommate. Oh well.

The tank is filled, and no leaks yet. Got some new driftwood from the Genesee River today. Tomorrow I have to buy some more pool filter sand and start cycling the tank.


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Pics! I know how we love pics!

Here he is, day one. He already has a nice purple hue.

*right after this shot, he jumped out of my hand and back into the tank. He is absolutely full of piss and vinegar! I have him housed with (3) J. Trans. Pembas, and they are very afraid of him.










Boilin up a stump! I had the roomie's girlfriend convinced I was making "Driftwood Stew" :lol:










Leeching out and sinking some additional driftwood in the 20 gal.










The stump in the newly acquired 55 gallon. It is still a bit buoyant.










Pot scrubbies for the filter! I love pot scrubbies!










I'm in the process of cycling the tank right now. Since I leave for Seattle on Wed for 4 days, I gave the roomie the lowdown on how to do a fishless cycle with ammonia. We'll see how he does :thumb:


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

*update*

My little guy has grown almost 1/4" since I got him. I am absolutely stunned. It took 3 months for my Africans to do the same, and my calvus haven't grown more than 1/8" in 4 months.

I have added an old Tetra 30-60 HOB filter to the 55 gallon to try and increase filtration a bit. I have also removed the large stump as it just took up too much room.

The new 55 is on its last leg of the cycle; I saw a nitrite spike 3 days ago. As of this afternoon, nitrite is down to roughly ~2 ppm. I'm hoping to have him in the 55 by this coming weekend.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Too bad, that stump is an amazing piece of wood. Wish I could score something like that around here. Not a lot of drift wood in the desert though. :lol:


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

average growth is an inch a month with these guys, don't be to surprised, he can still grow faster :lol:


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## noobdood (Jul 19, 2008)

Ooh, save me a bowl of that driftwood stew. :drooling:


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

I sold a 90G to a guy & he shows up with a 1990 civic sedan his wife & toddler in a baby seat.
I told him he'd need to bring his child home to fit the tank in the back seat.
He ended up living quite a ways away so he left he child & wife @ a friend place.
I didn't thinl it would work so I brought out the messuring tape & sure enough the was just enough room.
No room for error.
I still can't figure out how he got it out though.
:lol:



gage said:


> :lol:
> you fit a 4' tank in a Civic? CONGRATS to what I would have thought was an impossible task.


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

gage said:


> You have a basement in an apartment? please explain THIS situation :lol: I didn't know you could get apartments like that!
> 
> you fit a 4' tank in a Civic? CONGRATS to what I would have thought was an impossible task.


Wow...I completely missed this post!

Yes, I have a basement. My apartment was a house that was split into an upper and lower apartment. It is a full house built in the 20's, so it has a basement, 2 stories, and an attic.

And yes.....not only did I fit a 4' tank in the car, I also fit the stand at the same time, side by side.

I used to hate Civics until I owned one. With my hatch, I've fit all kinds of things back there!


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## Morcs (Jun 1, 2009)

My CRX Del sol is useless for tanks. Thought i had it measured perfectly to fit a 3ft in the boot, but I decided to get a 40br, which was too tall.

Had to remove the roof, and have the tank sitting on the passenger seat on one end, sticking out into the sky and it was pissing down with rain :lol:


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Morcs said:


> My CRX Del sol is useless for tanks.


Thats because it is a 2 seater lol. You should get an EG hatch...lots of room!

Although I'm not sure if they imported those where you live. You should get me a Nissan GTI-R and ship it over to the states.... :drooling:


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## underOATH87 (Apr 14, 2007)

yeah I have a Jag in a 55 right now, but he's been stunted, he lived in a 20G for a long time cuz I couldn't find anyone to take him. He's got a 55G all by himself right now and it's just about enough space for him to swim and move gravel happily. But he really needs like a good 100+ Gallon tank for full size.

If yours is anything like mine, he will start killing ANYTHING you put in with him, including heaters and thermometers... :roll:

So good luck with him, you may want to save yourself the trouble and return him now before it's too late and find something a little smaller, and less agressive for that 55


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

underOATH87 said:


> So good luck with him, you may want to save yourself the trouble and return him now before it's too late and find something a little smaller, and less agressive for that 55


I've wanted a jag for a long time. After seeing a very large male in person, the purple and green iridescent hues and the Aztec pattern makes them the most attractive of the parachromis IMO.

This 55 is just temporary. I have no problem leaving him by himself, and will get him a bigger tank when the time comes.

When I find a new apartment/house in about a year, I plan on a very large predatory tank with peacock bass, red tiger motas, maybe some oscars....who knows. Any way it happens, I hope that my little jag will be the first inhabitant!


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

I returned to the LFS yesterday and purchased two more of the remaining three in hopes of getting a pair eventually. The third was really beat up. I would have rescued him, but they were not willing to give me a discount on an injured fish. Additionally, she told me that they would not offer any warranty on these fish because I was putting them together in the 55.

A bit put off by this I told the owner she was a hypocrite, as they were keeping them all in an overstocked 20 gallon tank with larger aggressive firemouths. I explained that I would be putting just the three of them a much larger grow out tank and eventually moving them to the appropriate sized tank when the time came. The conversation became a bit more heated when she told me I didn't really have my facts of fish keeping straight and that I obviously didn't know what I was talking about.

Deciding to bite my tongue and prevent a trip to jail, and I left with just the two. I felt bad for the other juvie jag, but I'm not sure he would handle the stress of a move. He wasn't looking so hot  I don't think I will do any more business there.

So far the other two are doing well, but they are still extremely dark (almost black) and still hiding. This morning one of the new two took food, but darted back to cover immediately. I'm sure that they are still looking out for the big mean firemouths :wink:

I'll get pictures up as soon as they are a bit more settled.

*additionally, I have started to plan for a larger tank. I'm looking into a 135 gallon Tenecor acrylic, although the price difference to get into the 200's might make it worthwhile.


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

I took a nitrite reading on the 55 gallon growout tank and found it to be at 0, which means I'll have my (4) Jags in that tank within the next few days. I'm hoping to be able to pull two of them within 1-2 months.

I'm also considering picking up 2-3 wild oscars for a separate 55 but I might wait this one out.

Eventually I want to have a large enough tank to do a predatory tank.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Good luck keeping three jags in a 55g for a year.

I picked up a 1-2in jag and he was 6in in a couple months and feisty. He raised **** in the 125g I cant imagine three in a 55g.

Don't be to mean to that fish shop owner you may need them to take a fish or two in a few months. I am personally impressed with any fish store that told you your tank was too small for the fish you are buying, that is rare. Sounds like she was giving good advice to me.


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## darryl2786 (Jun 30, 2009)

x2


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## darryl2786 (Jun 30, 2009)

x2


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

chrispyweld said:


> Good luck keeping three jags in a 55g for a year.
> 
> I picked up a 1-2in jag and he was 6in in a couple months and feisty. He raised #%$& in the 125g I cant imagine three in a 55g.
> 
> Don't be to mean to that fish shop owner you may need them to take a fish or two in a few months. I am personally impressed with any fish store that told you your tank was too small for the fish you are buying, that is rare. Sounds like she was giving good advice to me.


I don't plan on keeping three jags in a 55 for a year. I plan on keeping 2 for a couple months until I can afford a larger tank. Where are you seeing that I said 3 jags for a year?

I also don't think I was being mean...and I'm not going back to that store. They'd prolly put a larger jag back into the same size tank, just like they put an 8 inch flowerhorn into a 20 long.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

double post...


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

vaypourus said:


> I don't plan on keeping three jags in a 55 for a year. I plan on keeping 2 for a couple months until I can afford a larger tank. Where are you seeing that I said 3 jags for a year?


Well first of all you said...


vaypourus said:


> I returned to the LFS yesterday and purchased two *more* of the remaining three


 that leads me to believe you have three.

And you also said...


vaypourus said:


> I did what I shouldn't have. I was completely impulsive and bought him.I know how big these guys get, and I know how aggressive they are. I don't really have the room or the tank to house him right now.





vaypourus said:


> 1. Space constraints - My apartment has no room for a tank larger than 48" x 12.5", which really limits me to 55 and 67 gallon tanks. This is a big problem because I already have a 55 gallon Tang community tank in the dining room.
> 
> 2. I got laid of recently - This means I'm pooooooooooor





vaypourus said:


> When I find a new apartment/house in about a year, I plan on a very large predatory tank


Which leads me to believe it will be about a year until you can get a large enough tank. Pretty straight forward really.

And as far as thisâ€¦


vaypourus said:


> They'd prolly put a larger jag back into the same size tank, just like they put an 8 inch flowerhorn into a 20 long.


Fish stores are not meant to be long term homes for these fish...your thinking of an aquarium.


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

You missed these.



vaypourus said:


> *additionally, I have started to plan for a larger tank. I'm looking into a 135 gallon Tenecor acrylic, although the price difference to get into the 200's might make it worthwhile.





vaypourus said:


> I took a nitrite reading on the 55 gallon growout tank and found it to be at 0, which means I'll have my (4) Jags in that tank within the next few days. I'm hoping to be able to pull two of them within 1-2 months.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Well, I happily admit I misjudged you when it happens.

However you have also said you were happy leaving him alone and then went and bought two more. You said you are "POOOOOOOOR" and now say you are looking at a 200g. You said you had no more room but now have another 55g, plan on another for your oscars, and have room for a 6-8' tank.

I'm sorry I didn't know which lines to read between. :wink:


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Vaypourus, you titled your own thread "I did something stupid"... which was buying a Jag when you know you do not currently have space for it to grow out...

Now you seem insulted that it is suggested to be a bad idea to buy more Jags when you still haven't added any tanks to your collection?!?

If buying one Jag was stupid (your word not mine)... what is buying 4 Jags?

You started this thread admitting you shouldn't have bought the first one and now you seem upset when someone tells you buying the 3rd and 4th ones was a bad idea...

Your being given good advice... and based on the title of this thread you know it is good advice... so stop arguing and admit you are doing things you shouldn't but you just don't care...

I hate to seem rude with my bluntness... but when you state buying one is stupid and then buy 4... you make it hard to be polite about it...


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Toby and crispy-

I agree with both of you.

I started this thread when i did something impulsive, kinda hoping that others would share their experiences. I didn't expect it to turn into a pissing match, although I probably should have expected it.

I knew from the start that this wasn't the best idea given the circumstances, however, I also stated from the beginning that I will make adjustments and changes to my setup when they are required. You guys have seemed to ignore that. Additionally, I've stated that I am already making plans to step up into a bigger tank. When I said I was "pooooooor" I meant that I don't have the cash to set up a huge tank for them this second. It has been a plan for a long time to do it eventually, and that is now sooner than later.

What I think the real problem is here is that I haven't properly communicated my plan of action here, so let me do that.

*also, the job front is looking good. I may have a new job in a couple of weeks 

The 55 gallon is nothing more than a grow out tank. Being that all the jags are still under 2", I am waiting until I see some pairing behavior within the next couple of months. If there is an outcast or a bullied fish, then I will remove him. I have plenty of places I can take the other fish besides the one LFS already discussed. By late fall, I hope to have 1-2 fish in the 55.

Being that these guys grow an inch/month, I figure that by january I'll have 6-7" fish. This will be a bit cramped in the 55 by this time. The plan is to have a bigger tank in place by then. If that doesn't happen, I have 2 friends with very large SA tanks that have already said they would add them to the collection.

I've been keeping a variety of fish since the mid 90's, and I learned about this hobby at a young from my father, who kept many tanks in the 70's & 80's when I was a kid. I keep 7 tanks now with a mixture of fish from around zee world. I'm not new to this hobby, and I know how things should be done.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Thank for being able to read disagreements as constructive criticism and not brutal attacksâ€¦ I know I meant mine as constructive and believe others did as wellâ€¦

I did see where you said you have plans to upgradeâ€¦ and I also read where you were dealing with obstacles to having that happen. I also know how many times Iâ€™ve made big plans to do something and then life got in the way and it never happened or was severely delayed.

Because of that, I always suggest against getting fish until you have adequate space to keep them for lifeâ€¦ or have confirmed someone to take them off your hands I needed.

Relying on a friend to take them is quite risky as it is very unlikely that you have a friend with a huge tank sitting so lightly stocked that you could throw a couple Jags in it without causing problems. If you do by chance have a friend in that situation, it is unlikely they will keep it as such for 6 months when you really need it.

Best of luck on the job search. Iâ€™ve been dealing with a terrible schedule and low hours myself and have a couple of projects on hold because of it. And Iâ€™m grateful I didnâ€™t make impulsive purchases of animals for these projects or Iâ€™d be in a bad situationâ€¦


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

I'm so confused...


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

chrispyweld said:


> I'm so confused...


Why for?

Chrispy, take this thread as a "I was impulsive, but realizing the err in my ways have started to plan what I need to do to raise big, aggressive fish"

That's all. Thanks for the input!


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Will do.

However I hope you are not still planning on a large aggressive community and planning on having a breeding pair of Jags in it. You will need more then you are currently planning on IMHO.

I hope all goes as planned for you. I look forward to hearing everything as it develops. I'm a big fan of Jags too. :thumb:


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

chrispyweld said:


> However I hope you are not still planning on a large aggressive community and planning on having a breeding pair of Jags in it. You will need more then you are currently planning on IMHO.
> 
> I hope all goes as planned for you. I look forward to hearing everything as it develops. I'm a big fan of Jags too. :thumb:


I've been watching this thread and like what I see, but also realize that terd is exceptionally lucky to have everything go as well as it has. I am a big fan of community tanks, and might try to push the envelope if I can. I know if that is the case I will be looking at a very large setup. That is still a ways off so nothing is set in stone just yet. A pair of breeding jags alone would make me very happy


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

You will need at least a 180g just for that pair.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

If you are a fan of Kevin's (Terd's) set up then read the whole thread...

You'll learn how the idea started in a 190 gal but he realized it wasn't big enough for the large aggressive preditors he liked to be kept in a community setting... so he upgraded to a 360 gal...

I saw the tank in person a year or two ago when I dropped off a Red Tiger Mota... Very impressive tank...

I've also learned from keeping a 300 gal myself that you can get away with some things in massive tanks that you just don't get away with in smaller tanks... In other words there is no way you could keep half of his stock in a tank half as big...


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

Yup, I did see that he started smaller and worked his way up. I've read the whole thread from the beginning (took me about 3 hours). I know a whole lot is going to depend on the fish themselves, and only time will tell the temperament of my little guys.

I'm not saying that I'd like to do exactly what he has done, but I am shooting for a dedicated fish room w/ 500 gallon tank. It really depends on what kind of job I land now that I'm out of school...my degree program can be very lucrative


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

**update**

All 4 jags were doing fine until about a week ago, when the two larger fish (the alpha male and what I hope is a female) seemed to show pairing behavior. Then, all **** broke loose. Not only was the alpha male beating the snot out of the two smaller fish, but the two smaller fish would gang up and together attack both of the larger fish one at a time. All 4 fish had ripped fins (only the fin membranes, nothing serious).

They were about 2 1/2" long and growing rapidly, eating like pigs. I figured that the aggression wouldn't set in for another couple of months, but it appears I was a bit off on that calculation.

I posted an add on craigslist and got an overwhelming response from people. I gave the two smaller fish to a gentleman that had a 180 gallon waiting for them. This leaves me with two fish in the tank for the time being. If I have to get rid of another, I have a list of about a dozen people wanting one badly.

I have not yet procured a larger tank...a deal for a 225 gallon fell through last week. I'm trying to find a used tank/stand locally, as the tank I wanted was in the $1400 price range for just the tank


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Thanks for posting your experience. Maybe others in the future can learn what not to do from your mistakes. Kudos =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

i had 2 5 inch jagzs ina tank for a couple moths an today while feeding i was asking the other jag wheres your girlfriend an umm yeaaaa

SOMEBODY ATE HER!!!!

what can i say im shocked she was healthy an starting to spot up looking beautiful gold an black an tadaa GONE!!!

bummer 
just be careful with your jags they are very greedy fish when it comes to feeders.


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

I'm going to look at a 125 gal (72"L x 18"W x 22"H) tank tomorrow. Local seller is moving and asking $100, which seems to be a pretty good deal.

If this deal falls through, I have already priced out a new 125 gal and will be purchasing it prior to Christmas.

I've decided that I am not going to do a pair of the jags, as I just don't have the room for a tank large enough to house them. After taking measurements of my apartment, a 6' tank is my limit. For the time being, I'm going to continue to grow out the two remaining and keep the better of the two when they grow up a bit.

Do I have any options for adding one or more fish to the 125 gal? A single wet pet is fine, but I would at least like to explore some other options, if I have any.


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

> I'm going to look at a 125 gal (72"L x 18"W x 22"H) tank tomorrow. Local seller is moving and asking $100, which seems to be a pretty good deal.
> 
> If this deal falls through, I have already priced out a new 125 gal and will be purchasing it prior to Christmas.
> 
> ...


That's an awesome deal! Take it! If someone was offering a 125 gal for $100 near me I would jump on it as long as it can hold water and is in decent shape!

You can keep a pair of Jags in a 125 longterm and for life! Just make a divider and keep it ready!


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

The tank was a bust (literally). It has been poorly resealed on the one side, the old silicone had not been removed, and there was a chip taken out of the corner seam glass. I'm not convinced it held water at all...it was dry when I got there, even though I had requested to see it full. I was not happy, as it was a waste of my time and gas money to drive there and look at it.

I went to the local reefer LFS and have put a downpayment on a 125 gallon 6' Perfecto with the twin corner overflows. After looking at three questionable used tanks, I'm just gonna buy it new.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Nice. Hope you get years of enjoyment of it. :thumb:


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

**update**

I talked to several people and have decided that the 125 isn't big enough; I am going to go with a 180 gallon long (72x24x24) with overflows. The sump will be a DIY 40 or 55 gallon wet/dry. I'm still planning on keeping only one of the jags in this setup; looking to do an aggressive CA biotope tank with about 5-6 fish in the 180.

In my 55 gallon grow out tank the larger jag suddenly turned on the second jag for no apparent reason. I put a piece of eggcrate into the tank splitting the two jags. This worked well for about a day; the next day I went downstairs and discovered both jags on the same side. I netted the one and put him/her on the other side. Within an hour, the smaller jag jumped out of the water, over the barrier, and into the other side. I moved him/her back again, and within 2 minutes witnessed the fish jumping back to the other side. lol.

I left them together for another two days but this morning found the smaller jag with torn fins and a small wound on the head. I moved the smaller jag to his/her own 55 gallon with 3 juvie pink convicts. He/she has already claimed the entire tank and has already began to chase the convicts around. I have already moved some other fish around, sold a few others, and will be removing the convicts within several days.

I stopped by the LFS in which I bought the jags just to check on the jag that I had left there. I noticed that the tank with the firemouths and remaining jag was empty. I inquired about it; as it turns out, the LFS added 6 more smaller jags to the small 20 gal with the firemouths. The beat up jag had grown quickly since I had been there. When the new jags were added, the larger jag (about 4" they said) killed ALL fish in the tank in a single night (all the new jags and larger firemouths). The girl had told me that they came in the morning to a tank of dead fish. The larger jag was pretty beat up and died the next day.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

fish are a pain and a pleasure love them but they stress you out sometimes... lol lessons to be learned you can ony have a few type of fish together an be at ease with it.


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