# new to hobby and forum



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

Hello, I am new to the hobby and fish keeping in general. I have spent much time as a guest on this forum reading a lot of discussions. I now realize that I have made every rookie mistake that I could.
First I bought a 60g tank only 12" frontto back. Wrong footprint.
2nd, I added fish without letting the water properly cycle. "Fish are doing great". Lucky
3rd. I listened to the lfs "pro" on cichlid knowledge and stocking.
I am currently trying to narrow down exactly what I have in my very overstocked tank.
Water quality is exalent and tank looks great."I love it". But I now know that it is all togather wrong.
I would like to attach some pics for proper id but am a construction worker and visit site from my phone.
Can I post pics from droid rasor?


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

My 60g tanks dims. are 48"×24"×12".
I have a power 350 back hung filter with bio wheels. Properly sized heater. ? On the model now. 950 power head.
Water quality is great. It may be a little soft for the fish I have. The ones that I can ID.
I have a total of 14 fish in tank now all juvenile.
Here are the ones that I know.
1: red zebra blue male. "I think". 3"
1: red zebra oarngeish female? 3"
1: arutus yellow with black. ?gender.2"
1:albino ice blue. One egg spot.?gender. 2.5"
1: peacock of some sort. Benga,long nose,or greenface. Female I think. 2.5"
1: blue and silver kenyi. Female I think.2"
1: male kenyi. Yellow with dark vertical bars. 2.75"
1: yellow lab 2.5". Gender?
1: tropheus. Black with light blue spots all over. And a milk mustache. Gender? 1.25"
1: yellow banded tropheus.gender? Almost 2"
1: still unidentified long skinny blue with vert.bars in darker blue
And finnally 
1: unidentified orange with darker orange spots on fins. Looks like some kind of peacock. 2". Gender?
I now know this is a very bad stocking list. But I am now stuck for a while.
I plan to buy a better suited tank for main room and move 60g to my daughters room. 
Which fish should or could go with the 60g tall tank and which fish should I rehome when I purchase and cycle new tank.
Any help would be appreciated. I love this new hobby and these fish. I just need to keep my wife on board. Thanks in advance.


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

I have followed the 1" of fish per gallon rule and stretched it by about 1 more 5"fish. 
Is this overstocked?
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

welcome to cichlid forum, well im not the expert so i'll leave it to those that are. wow you have quite a stock list that is not right. so much for lfs expertise hey.
anyway good luck and over to others


----------



## ozman (Sep 7, 2012)

so many questions to answer. forget the rules your going by, we need to know tank size and stock for a starters?


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

Thx. Happy to be here. Hopefully I can correct my past mistakes.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Hey there... welcome

First off, what are your water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, gH, kH...

As you stated, your stocking is all over the map. You need to decide what kind of fish you want to keep. Peacocks, mbuna, etc. You have fish from Lake Malawi and Tanganyika. If going with mbuna(kenyi, red zebras), then steer clear of the tropheus and peacocks. You have some heavy hitters in there(auratus, kenyi) and some fish you cannot identify. If you like the peacocks, then stick with those and possibly the yellow lab.

Can you return the fish? That's important at this point. You said you were stuck with them for awhile. Personally, I would return the whole lot of fish, do the necessary research, and start over with identified, pure bred stock. What you have now is a recipe for disaster. I returned some yellow labs when I started out, believing them to be hybrids. If you do upgrade the tank size, then you could probably keep the majority of the fish.

Example- keep the peacocks and add more to the 60. At this point though, you're not sure what species. That may lead to a tank full of unidentified, hybrid fish. If you upgrade to a 6' tank, you could build around your mbuna(auratus, red zebra, kenyi, labs). A shorter tank if you dump the auratus and kenyi. Also, red zebras and yellow labs will hybridize. In that case, don't save any fry. Return the tropheus, in all cases.

I believe you don't have enough filtration. 350 gph? With messy african cichlids, and overstocked tanks, try to shoot for 7-10x the volume of water. That is what's been hammered into my head, at least. Adding a decent canister filter would solve that- something in the range of another 300 gph.

Sorry for the bad news, and keep in mind, it's only my opinion from what I've learned on the site here.


----------



## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

1"/gallon rule is irrelevant when stocking cichlids.


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

Thanks. I will update my water parameters this evening when I get home. 
Not really interested in breeding. If cross breeding or fry of any sort is it ok to just let them get eaten? Or does this injure the other fish? 
I will check to see if I can take back any fish to lfs. But I think I will lose out on all money spent.


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

ok.here is water paramiters before pwc after two days without.
ammonia-0
nitrite-0
nitrate-20
pH-8.0
gM-25
seem ok to me. thoughts?


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Those are good, indicating a cycled tank. But your nitrates being at 20 only 2 days after a water change is a bit high. That's where your filtration comes into play. Or there's a buildup of waste, which I doubt after such a recent water change and your powerhead. Try another water change to cut those nitrates down to 10ppm.

But your stock is the real factor here for success. Take a look at these for stocking. Your tank has the same footprint as a 55 gallon. Figure out what direction you'd like to head in.

https://www.google.com/search?q=coo...chlid-forum.com/articles&image.x=5&image.y=10


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

I am going to look for and buy a new set up tomorrow. I am thinking a 55g round front tank from lfs.
I would like to eventually transfer some fish that I have and make two tanks. could you tell me how to best 
split this stock up without losing any more than the trophs? or can the trophs go with the peacocks that will be 
rehomed in new tank. 
Im wanting to build the existing tank around the red zebras.arutus and kenyi.
Is this posible.
love this site so helpful.. thanks in advance I am learning alot


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Well tank foot print is vital. 55 bowfront is not ideal. I'll send you a PM about a place that's doing 20% off aquariums right now.

Tropheus are best kept as a species only tank. The argument here is what is the minimal size for them. Some say 75 gallon, others a 6 footer. I have never kept them.

If you do an mbuna setup in the bowfront build your stock around the yellow labs. Strongly urge you to get at least a standard 55 though. Think footprint...

As I said before, return the crazy lot of auratus and kenyi. You're gonna need a 6' tank for those.


----------



## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> As I said before, return the crazy lot of auratus and kenyi. You're gonna need a 6' tank for those.


Agreed. Those really aggressive fish will cause problems, and frankly there are much better looking fish to keep.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Round front tanks (called bow fronts or even worse...corner tanks) can hold less fish than a rectangle. I agree you are better off with a 72" tank for auratus and kenyi...or at least a 48" x 18" rectangle. Because they are so aggressive, stock 1m:7f of each.


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

Thanks to all some really good advice.


----------



## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

Breeding groups are the easiest way to keep them, by far. I like to start with about 8 juveniles of any species I wish to keep, and then trade off all but the best male. It doesn't matter if you want to breed them or not, this method keeps the tank from self destructing when they get big.

Unfortunately some of the most available fish (kenyi, auratus, crabro, johanni) are so aggressive they need more females and a larger tank. While you may have picked too many random fish, you have a 4' tank and that's big enough to house 3 species groups of some amazing looking mbuna. Which are your favorites?


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

thank you Brinkles, What do you mean when you say the tank can self destruct when the fish grow bigger.
I did buy a new 56g with a 36"x18"x20" that I set up in my 11yr old daughters room. that is the only place in the
house I was allowed to put it. and also the biggest footprint tank I could afford at this time.
I would still like to build a tank buy splitting the fish that I already have. my lfs gives no refunds or trades on my fish.
what are the risks of splitting the fish up into two tanks and see what plays out
I see mixed tanks at the "good" lfs in town not a chain. these fish seem to be very healthy and not much aggression. they do 
have larger tanks but they also have tons of fish in each display tank.
 thanks in advance to all.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Is the 56G a rectangle or a bow front?

There is no risk to stocking the fish to see what plays out, but when/if you have a problem then what? You also need to have a plan on rehoming them if things play out badly. Members are usually looking for recommendations that are likely to work without the need to rehome fish.

Stocking an aggressive fish in a tank that is too small (like kenyi and auratus for example) is likely to result in harassment, stress and the resulting illness or death. But you may have 6-12 months before you see problems depending on the size of the fish at this time. If you have a plan to remove them when you see the harassment and stress that will work.

LFS are constantly selling the fish and replacing them with new individuals so they can overcrowd tanks without worry about whether it will work for a year or more. The fish never really have a chance to adapt to the tank and/or start spawning while at the LFS.


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

It is a 56g rectangle. 
I am now noticing one or more fish flashing or scraping sides on rocks. 
is this something to worry about?


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

New tank with new water?


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

Yes nwe tank new water. I set the tank up about 45 days ago and fish have been in tank about 38 days. As I stated earlier I added the fish too soon. Tank had not completely cycled.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

therookie said:


> Yes nwe tank new water. I set the tank up about 45 days ago and fish have been in tank about 38 days. As I stated earlier I added the fish too soon. Tank had not completely cycled.


The behavior is called 'flashing' and it is not always a sign of something wrong. Some of my mbuna do this after a water change.

So the new 56 gallon has no fish in it yet? When you noticed it, had you just done a water change on the existing tank setup? Any signs of ick, redness at the gills and have you tested your water after witnessing?


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

the new 56g has no fish yet just set it up sat. 2/2/13. I waited for temp to regulate and stole one bio wheel from existing tank. and am thinki;ng
of adding some water from existing tank.
I did notice it after water change I will try to keep an eye on when It happens.
no signs of ich or illness. no redness all seems well.
I will check the water after I see it again.
i am reallly loving this site. learning so much. maybe I will get rookie of the year 
I will post a pic of my tank and some unidentified fish to complete my stock list.


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)




----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

60g marine land tank. dims. 48"x12"x20"
penguin bio wheel power 350. filter
aqueon 200w heater
aqueon 900 powerhead 
florecent lights 
46 days as a Cichlid owner


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

that is an old pic. I will put a new one now


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)




----------



## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

I'd put the yellow lab and peacock in the 3' tank, the rest in the 4' tank. I'd also get 8 more baby yellow labs for the 3', and weed out the males if you need to in 6 months or a year. A whole breeding group of the peacocks might be too much for the 3', but I'd try it myself, depending.

The rest of the stock you can fix now, or wait to see. Sometimes you get lucky and it works, sometimes not.

Can you post a pic of the fish that needs ID?

1: red zebra blue male. "I think". 3"
1: red zebra oarngeish female? 3"
1: arutus yellow with black. ?gender.2"
1:albino ice blue. One egg spot.?gender. 2.5"
1: peacock of some sort. Benga,long nose,or greenface. Female I think. 2.5"
1: blue and silver kenyi. Female I think.2"
1: male kenyi. Yellow with dark vertical bars. 2.75"
1: yellow lab 2.5". Gender?
1: tropheus. Black with light blue spots all over. And a milk mustache. Gender? 1.25"
1: yellow banded tropheus.gender? Almost 2"
1: still unidentified long skinny blue with vert.bars in darker blue


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

red zebra male??


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

red Z female??? three egg spots


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)

in the middle???


----------



## therookie (Feb 28, 2013)




----------



## metricliman (Sep 3, 2012)

1) Not a male red zebra, appears to be a female Metriaclima.

2) A female red zebra, but not because of the egg spots, the rounded dorsal fin says female.


----------

