# Questions, questions, and more questions....



## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

Hello all. I'll start with the beginning. Started with a 36g bowfront. Occupants were yellow lab, crabro, Johann, and a tiny tiny SA tiger oscar. Now before my head gets bitten off, the misses loved the way he looked, when I informed her of the bad idea of mixing him in, she smiled and gave me the option to take him or leave it all. I took option 1. Actually it has worked out way better than I thought but I'm just worried about size and space. Anyhow. Came across a steal on craigslist for a 55. Plan was to transfer the fish that were getting large in my 36 to the 55. Worked perfectly except I also inherited the 6 fish the owner had which were described as "pinky" size, when they were all really palm sized. So growing up around the military I chose not to leave a fish behind. Since the "transfer" I have since gotten rid of 3 of the 6 I inherited. All were M.auratus. need I say more. Now as it stands I have the 36g with a few demasoni, 3 yellow tail acei, 2 yellow labs, and a jacobfrebegi. The 55 is a little bit more complicated.A small portion of the fish in there I am not 100% sure as to what they are. Prior to coming on this site, whatever the guy/gal at the LFS said it was, was the gospel. In my 55 I KNOW that I have the Oscar, venustus, crabro, Johanni, fusco, s.fryeri,red zebra, 2 labs, socolofi, fuelleborni, ob fuelleborni, yellow tail acei,trewavese. Outside of the obvious, pretty much spent housr combing the species profiles for the not so obvious species. There are 3 fish I have really had trouble identifying. One was labeled a "black barred zebra"??? The other a cobalt blue zebra, and the third was inherited. Now as it stands I have a 45g tall I found in my grandmother's basement that im about to cycle after my diy BG is finished. AND I just came across another steal on CL a 125g with wood canopy and matching stand, fluval 406 & 306 canisters, custom light mounted to inside of canopy and they will deliver it all (37 miles or so) for $350. So instead of preparing a "stock" list one of my many questions is how should I "breakdown" what I already have? The only fish I do know I want is o. Zimbabwe rock( I think I'm truly in love). Where should they go and is 5.5 to 6 inches truly max size BC I have read some get to 10+. And to put some of you at ease, since I started both tanks I have only lost 3 fish. A pleco from pets***t, one of my foster fish due to a fungus he had with previous owner and a demasoni that was there one day, only never to be seen again. So based on the Oscar and Venustus alone I'd say I'm having a decent run. Please lay it on thick because 92% of what I now know about cichlids I have learned from comments, questions, and articles on this site. The rest I have learned from shop owners and sales associates, which I lump there input in the same category as bigfoot experts. Thanks


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

"Cobalt blue zebra"???


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

"Black barred zebra"???


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

Mystery Cichlid


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

55g


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

36g


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

All I can say is that you have WAY to many different species in that 55G. You need to weed it down to about 3 species of mbuna and maybe a peacock or hap. Without enough females of their own species the males will become very aggressive. 36G would be ok for one cichlid species only.


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## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

I love that big rock, what a find!


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

Austinite rock was purchased at petsmrt for $50. I stood it up vertical and let it rest on slate from local landscaper.

Clhinds78. If I only knew then half of what I know now. My area doesnt have a very good selection as far as the hobby is concerned. With that said I think with this new undertaking I'm just gonna have to figure out what works best where. I am sure majority if not all are males due to colorations so the next step is ordering females from online I suppose


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Is that an oscar in with all those africans :lol: How is that working out so far


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

Its working out ALOT better than I expected actually. Up until the addition of the Venusts there was zero problems. He (Big Greedy as my fiance calls him) even eats the larger pellets and breaks them up so all the smaller fish trail behind his gills lol. But I have seen an issue with him and Sid Vicious (venustus). Rarely, they do get at each other but it usually stops as fast as it starts. Besides that never had a problem or concern with him at all


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

A lone Oscar requires a 75 gallon as the absolute minimum, and preferably a 6' tank. He/she will probably live a stressed existence if kept with the Africans, especially the mbuna.

Your mystery cichlid looks like a Cobalt Blue zebra(Metriaclima Callanois). Not sure on those other 2. Hybrids?

As you know, your stock is all over the place. A 36 or 45 tall is not suitable for any of the species that you have. Demasoni need to be kept in a large colony, due to their high conspecific aggression. You most likely continue to lose them until you're down to one. Most of the Africans in your 55 require a larger tank.

Ultimately, you need to decide what you want to keep, and build around that.

Have you checked out the 'cookie cutter' suggestions in the Library? May give you a generic idea on how to stock your 55.

Keep your questions coming, and people will continue trying to help...


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

Thanks Iggy. Yea its kinda hit or miss with the 55. I'm wanting to put the Crabro, Venustus, fuelleborni, and o. Zimbabwe rock (once I find some nice stock online) in the 125 once up and running. Is that a bad mix? I just know I would be able to find adequate m/f ratios of the first three locally

I have truly gone back and forth about taking the Oscar to my LFS but my fiance would be heartbroken as that is the fish she feels is "hers" and opens up her curiosity about the hobby.

I figure if I can split the fish up by max adult size FOR NOW I can start to weed out what is acceptable in what tank. With a total of about 220 gallons between four tanks (125,55,45,&36) I should be able to find some type of balance with the current stock or "gumbo" as I call it


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I cannot comment on mixing haps with mbuna, as I have not done so, but its generally not recommended unless its a mild mannered fish like your yellow labs. Your Crabo and Fuelleborni get very large and aggressive, needing several(7-8) females per male. I think they're poor candidates for haps.

If the Oscar is a must, why not add him to the 125? Try to introduce a possible mate, with some silver dollars and a pleco. Just a thought...

What are the dimensions of the 36 and 45?


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> I cannot comment on mixing haps with mbuna, as I have not done so, but its generally not recommended unless its a mild mannered fish like your yellow labs. Your Crabo and Fuelleborni get very large and aggressive, needing several(7-8) females per male. I think they're poor candidates for haps.
> 
> If the Oscar is a must, why not add him to the 125? Try to introduce a possible mate, with some silver dollars and a pleco. Just a thought...
> 
> What are the dimensions of the 36 and 45?


 :thumb: 
I was going to suggest the same thing!

You need to decide what you like more, the mbuna or the haps. If its the mbuna keep three of the species in the 55G and if its hte haps you'll want to get a 75G. A 125G for the oscar is a great idea!


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

That is an interesting idea as far as a mate in the 125. I kinda figured I would do a hap and "mild mannered" mbuna (if there is such a thing) in the 125. But that is an interesting option none the less.

The 36's dimensions are 30Lx15Wx21H bow front with fluval 206 and aqueon 50 hob. The 45g is 36Lx12Wx24H and have an Emperor 400 custom fit into background. 55g is 48Lx12Wx21H making it more of a 52 in reality with Emperor 400 & Penguin 350.

I Love both species mbuna and haps but have more mbuna than the latter. Decision, decisions...


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

JohnnyJohanni1 said:


> That is an interesting idea as far as a mate in the 125. I kinda figured I would do a hap and "mild mannered" mbuna (if there is such a thing) in the 125. But that is an interesting option none the less.
> 
> The 36's dimensions are 30Lx15Wx21H bow front with fluval 206 and aqueon 50 hob. The 45g is 36Lx12Wx24H and have an Emperor 400 custom fit into background. 55g is 48Lx12Wx21H making it more of a 52 in reality with Emperor 400 & Penguin 350.
> 
> I Love both species mbuna and haps but have more mbuna than the latter. Decision, decisions...


Here are just a few suggestion I have, do with them what you like:

36G
Not really a good mbuna tank. You could maybe use it for a tang community tank or dwarf SA cichlids such as apistos or rams. You could also do an angel pair with a few samll tetras, or just a standard community fish tank.

45G
I had a tank this size and it was ok as an mbuna tank, but not great. You could maybe keep one or two species of mbuna in it.

55G
Three species mbuna tank, maybe two milder species and a couple smaller haps or peacocks.

125G
Great for the oscar as suggested.

If you really want to keep all your mbuna and haps consider getting another 125G because the oscar really needs that sized tank if you want to keep him for very long. Sounds like its time to go craigslist tank shopping!


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

Lol as the notification came in of your response I was scouring craigslist. Seldom do I find tanks over 75 Around my location for a reasonable price. I put my name on a list at my local mom and pop pet store for used tanks over 90 gallons and they wanted $1100 for tank and metal stand. USED! But I can get my hands on some 75 setup for decent prices 150-250 so there's hope. Just the problem of space and the look on my fiancé's face when I mention "ANOTHER TANK" lol.

If I use the 125 for the Oscar is the 55 suitable for the venustus and for how long?

I was thinking of a two species tank for the 45 to begin with.

The 36 bow is more of a 40 and I do agree rather small for mbuna but I really only have my Dems and juvenile labs in there keeping it small with many caves and about 45lbs of slate

As I stated before finding mates is not a problem for the crabro & fuelleborni, but the rest pose a serious problem as far as locally.

When I purchased the venustus it was a pair m/f that had just been dropped off by a guy getting rid of his 75. I bought the male because he was healthy, as rare as a diamond around here, and figured if he worked out I would go back for the female who I figured would still be there. And here it is 2 months later and she still sits in their 150 gallon "mixed African" tank.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

JohnnyJohanni1 said:


> Lol as the notification came in of your response I was scouring craigslist. Seldom do I find tanks over 75 Around my location for a reasonable price. I put my name on a list at my local mom and pop pet store for used tanks over 90 gallons and they wanted $1100 for tank and metal stand. USED! But I can get my hands on some 75 setup for decent prices 150-250 so there's hope. Just the problem of space and the look on my fiancé's face when I mention "ANOTHER TANK" lol.
> 
> If I use the 125 for the Oscar is the 55 suitable for the venustus and for how long?
> 
> ...


I would think that larger tanks would eventually become available on CL in Fayetteville. They do peroidically in my area and, yes, they can be expensive; but now and then you find the seller just looking to get rid of a 6' tank as soon as they can.

The 36 will eventually be too small for the labs and dems. Once they grow a bi tyou will have WWIII on your hands. You might be able to get away with the labs and dems in the 45G.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Some useful info about Oscars:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=248959
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=120976

And the section of the forum devoted strictly to Oscars: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=53

Keep in mind, when stocking Africans, that the footprint of the tank is important. Height is unimportant with mbuna.

So your 36 gallon should be stocked like a 20 long/29 gallon. The space provided by the bow does not provide any additional territory that can be claimed by any fish/male. It looks cool, but that's about it.

The 45 gallon is more like a 30 gallon with a footprint of 3' x 1.' Some people have tried demasoni in 3' tanks, but 18" wide. 4' tanks are the norm for them. Maybe you could try some yellow labs? Mine were aggressive as heck in a 6' tank. Ultimately, a species only tank is your only real option. Look at pseudotropheus saulosi...


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Some useful info about Oscars:
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=248959
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=120976
> 
> ...


All veyr good points and basically what I was trying to say only more precise.

I thought I suggesting soulosi too, but I figured youw anted to stick with the species you have instead of adding another one. If your LFS would trade the mbuna you have for soulosi that would be a very good option for your 45G tank, the 36G is really just too small for mbuna.


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

Okay so after some talking and pondering here's what I'm thinking. Wifey says to **** with it, she will get a larger tank for Big Greedy(Oscar) I just have to keep him in the 55 for now until she can get the tank and I have to decorate. WIN #1. Move venustus to 125 once up and ready, along with fuelleborni, fryeri, fusco, and o.zim rock. Order some females online (references please) for fusco and fryeri.

Since there may be a few hybrids in the 55 aquire females for the species I can I.d. and leave it as is.

After looking into the salousi find another species compatible and place in 45

In the 36, well just let nature run its course I guess.

The misses did give me the okay for a 75 only after I set up her tank and get addresses for the save the dates. Another win. Feedback will be greatly appreciated


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

JohnnyJohanni1 said:


> Okay so after some talking and pondering here's what I'm thinking. Wifey says to #%$& with it, she will get a larger tank for Big Greedy(Oscar) I just have to keep him in the 55 for now until she can get the tank and I have to decorate. WIN #1. Move venustus to 125 once up and ready, along with fuelleborni, fryeri, fusco, and o.zim rock. Order some females online (references please) for fusco and fryeri.
> 
> Since there may be a few hybrids in the 55 aquire females for the species I can I.d. and leave it as is.
> 
> ...


That all sounds pretty good. Just a couple of thoughts:

1. You can keep all male haps and peacocks as long as they are all differently colored.
2. Ordered pre-sexed species online can be difficult and expensive. Most retailers sell their fish around 1-1.5 before they can really be sexed, especially the mbuna. If they do sell sexed fish usually they are males and expensive. What you can do is order twice as many fish as you need expecting to get a 50/50 ratio on the fish and find a place for the males. Maybe others have a better suggestion.


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## Bowfront (Jun 3, 2013)

I'd sell the 36 and 45. Then I would toss the Oscar and Pleco in the 55.

I'd buy the 125 and use it for all your Africans.

Tons of people keep 1 Oscar in a 55, its not "ideal" but it will work just fine.

.


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## JohnnyJohanni1 (Jul 8, 2013)

First I want to thank Iggy and CL for all the valuable input. You guys are awesome.

Next. Do I need females for haps in 125 (venustus, fryeri, o.z.rock, and fusco)? Are there any mbuna that will work with them? And how important is rock work for haps?


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

JohnnyJohanni1 said:


> First I want to thank Iggy and CL for all the valuable input. You guys are awesome.
> 
> Next. Do I need females for haps in 125 (venustus, fryeri, o.z.rock, and fusco)? Are there any mbuna that will work with them? And how important is rock work for haps?


As long as the haps look different you don't need females. Just make sure you only have one male of each species.

Yellow labs, acei and rusties are all ok with haps due to their more peaceful nature.

You will still want some rock work for the mbuna. Your haps and peacocks will need swimming space so leave at lest half the tank height empty.


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