# Classic Newbie Mistake - Mixing Regional Cichlids



## JB_Fishy (Nov 25, 2017)

Newbie Needs Help...

I am new to cichlids (not new to fishkeeping) and made a classic newbie mistake. When picking out my stock (from Petco and PetSmart...I know, but they had such great prices!) I ended up with a tank of haps, peacocks, mbuna, South/Central American cichlids (firemouth, convict, Jack Demseys)...oh and a freshwater puffer fish.

After researching the needs of the puffer fish I have decided to return him to the store. As cute and smart as he is, I'm not equipped to care for him. Problem solved.

At the pet store, I was assured all these guys can live together peacefully as long as I heavily stock the tank and introduce them all together when young. After further research, I realized they were wrong. I also knew better and should not have gotten so excited that I bought all the cichlids in sight.

Right now the fish are in a 20 gallon long growing out while their new home (75 gallon) gets set up. All of the fish are currently small (young) to medium (juvenile). The biggest being 2.5-3."

Here is my best shot at identifying what I have. Keep in mind several of the fish were labled as "Assorted African Cichlids" at the pet store.

I am using common names for convenience:

1x Venustus
2x Electric Blue Johanni
1x Socolofi
2x Auratus
3x Jewels
1x Red Zebra
1x Bumblebee
1x Acei
1x Black Convict
1x Electric Blue Jack Dempsey
1x Jack Dempsey
1x Firemouth
1x Electric Yellow Lab
1x Albino Peacock
1x OB 
1x Peacock (unknown type)
2-3x Unknown (look like mbuna)

I look at my stock list in 3 groups: 
1. Mbuna 
2. Haps/Peacocks
3. South/Central American

It is my understanding that mbuna and haps/peacocks don't do well together, and all the South/Central American won't do well with any Africans. Given my stock list, what should I do?

Option 1:
Return/give away 2 of the 3 groups of fish? If so, which should I keep?

Option 2: 
Put them all in the 75 gallon and let nature take its course?

Option 3:
Get 3x 75 gallon tanks, one for each group
*Note: this option is not desirable from a cost and practicality standpoint (and my wife would KILL me)

I have uploaded a few pics of the tank for your perusal.

Lay into me. I know I messed up. I just need some expert advice on fixing the situation.

Thank you.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

Which group do you want to keep.? You could possibly make a go of one group after you decide.


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## CT_Eagle (Aug 24, 2013)

I have seen people keep Mbunas, Haps and Peacocks together with no issues. I have no experience with this myself so maybe some others can chime in.

The South Americans should not be mixed with the Africans. The PH requirements are very different. SA Cichlids like a lower PH than the ACs. What is the PH of the water that you are using? The PH of your water may make the choice for you if you do not want to doctor your waters PH.


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## Sinister-Kisses (Jul 19, 2013)

pH levels really aren't much of a concern in tank raised fish, especially those coming from places like Petsmart. I can just about guarantee these fish have never had their "natural/proper" pH conditions in their life and are probably all pretty used to about the same stuff. pH is more of a concern in wild caught fish, and those species on the drastic end of either scale.

The BIG issue is the behavioural and dietary differences between the species. Decide if you want to do Amercians or Africans and clear out whichever ones don't make the cut, and then do some research on your group of choice before buying more fish


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I agree, we need to know which you like best: mbuna or New World or haps and peacocks. The venustus should definitely go because he won't work in a 75G anyway. The mbuna you have are not the ones that can work with haps and peacocks. But you have only one peacock...


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## JB_Fishy (Nov 25, 2017)

Thank you for your replies. I am so in love with all these fish, and fishkeeping in general that I want to keep them all (ideally in separate tanks). I don't think I can pull that off at the moment.

Few questions:

How do I get rid of these fish? Anyone in Northern NJ /NYC who wants these fish?

Has anyone had first hand experience with mixing mbuna with haps/peacocks and with South/Central Americans in a 75 gallon tank? What exactly would happen? And when? So far, there are no major issues while the fish are young. Could it be that if they grow up together and live in a large enough tank they could all coexist?

Would it be cruel of me to try this out?

Thank you


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## JB_Fishy (Nov 25, 2017)

I really don't know what I like. It's so tough for me. Maybe I'm leaning toward the South/Central American fish...especially if I could keep Geophagus with them. Does anyone know if that works? My specialty is keeping apistos and rams so I have an affinity for the reqion.

But then again...I would love an African tank!


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## JB_Fishy (Nov 25, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> I agree, we need to know which you like best: mbuna or New World or haps and peacocks. The venustus should definitely go because he won't work in a 75G anyway. The mbuna you have are not the ones that can work with haps and peacocks. But you have only one peacock...


How big a tank would I need for the Venustus?


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

Most everyone says a 6' tank is needed for a venustus. I would not take a long time deciding , twenty five 3" fish in a twenty long is pushing it already. Peacocks and/or mbuna can be done easily in a 75, haps would be best in a 6' tank. Just my opinion. We have mbuna, peacocks and haps in a 6' tank together.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

CT_Eagle said:


> The South Americans should not be mixed with the Africans. The PH requirements are very different. SA Cichlids like a lower PH than the ACs. What is the PH of the water that you are using? The PH of your water may make the choice for you if you do not want to doctor your waters PH.


First of all, there is no South American cichlid on the OP's list. Not one. There are 4 Central American cichlids listed (and CA can be considered as part of NA but is most definitely not part of SA).
SA is a continent. There is a full range of water types just as there is in Africa. Soft. Hard. High pH, low pH and every combination there of. Makes as much sense as labeling all of North America as having a water type. Even where I live where it is frozen for over 1/2 the year, waters that are soft, hard, lower pH and higher pH are all with in an hours drive. And it's far more varied in the tropics.
Anyways, all of these CA cichlids most often come from similar or higher pH then the Malawis and unlike Malawi cichlids actually do come from hard water(often extremely hard). I'm not sure why such a big deal is made about lake Malawi water, it's actually borderline soft. https://malawicichlids.com/mw01011.htm dGH 3-5, KH 6, electrical conductivity 200-240 microseimens. Aquarists have gone to lake malawi and measured pH at many of the popular collection points at the depths these fish live and generally have pH range of 7.6 to 8.1. Nothing too extreme. Bear in mind as well that a fish could experience a .5-1 change in pH simply by swimming from the surface down 10 feet :lol: pH is even less important then hardness, and as we have seen over many decades, Malawi cichlids are often kept in water that is many times harder then they actually come from and still do well. It is sort of ironic that such a big deal is made about particular water parameters when it comes to Malawi cichlids, because what experience over the years has shown is that it is really not too important and they are very hardy and will thrive in a variety of water types in captivity!
As far as the OP's stock as it sits right now, i think it will likely end up with problems. Auratus itself can be more then difficult to house with anything. Crabro is another many have had problems with, though me personally didn't have much issues with. I think you will find the majority on this forum are very much against mixing cichlids but IMO it's specific to the particular fish. IME, long term, jewels and convicts get along better with mouth brooders then they ever will with other substrate spawners. In a 4 ft. tank, I think your more likely to have aggression issues by mixing mbuna with haps then you are likely to encounter problems mixing some CA with Malawis. That is my opinion and my experience. Though I would also point out that FM, IME and IMO, is one of the least likely CA to do well with Malawi. What direction should you go for? It may be simpler to have an all mbuna or all hap tank


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## JB_Fishy (Nov 25, 2017)

Could I add my Firemouth to an apisto/ram tank? Would they get along while the Firemouth is still young?

How about the convict? I hear convicts can be temperamental. Would the convict go after my apistos/rams?

I assume that the 2x Jack Dempseys will not mix well with apistos. Unless I'm wrong.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

JB_Fishy said:


> Could I add my Firemouth to an apisto/ram tank? Would they get along while the Firemouth is still young?
> 
> How about the convict? I hear convicts can be temperamental. Would the convict go after my apistos/rams?
> 
> I assume that the 2x Jack Dempseys will not mix well with apistos. Unless I'm wrong.


I wouldn't.
I think even the FM has good chance to end up bullying the rams and apistos. Much larger fish and compared to apistos and rams, is typically much more aggressive.
The EBJD, by the way, is a very feeble strain and is often prone to health issues. Never owned one, so I have no personal experience with them, but from what I read, can be quite different then regular JD. I would think most people having success with this breed don't mix them with aggressive CA nor Malawis. I would think that should probably be one of the first fishes to go.


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## CT_Eagle (Aug 24, 2013)

BC in SK said:


> First of all, there is no South American cichlid on the OP's list. Not one


Take it up with the OP. He stated he had SAs and I took him at his word and that is what I responded to.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

To be honest, a lot of this really is a matter of taste. It is best to decide what you want and cater the tank to those fish, not just have random fish. Better goal is to have some fish do well, then have a bunch of fish just survive.

You can keep these fish together, fish are not going to die from being from different conditions and diets. Central Americans are not going to die from the tank conditions of Malawi cichlids, they like clean water too. They will all survive on common fish food. Now you do have way too many fish. The crowded conditions will help keep aggression down short term, but will also limit growth and eventually the fish will deteriorate and some will die. Some of those Mbuna can be a real pain when bigger (Auratus, Bumblebee). Those substrate spawners can be more seriously territorial, and you don't want those Jewels spawning. Fish are not going to get 10" any time soon in poor conditions.

So you should make choices. So pick mostly substrate spawners or mouthbrooders. Pick which fish you find the most interesting and build the tank around that. You could get a smaller tank for a breeding pair of Jewels, or the Firemouth or Convict or the "Electric Blue Dempsey" (if it even lives long) could have a smaller tank, if a second smaller tank is an option.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

I voted for option 3 because I don't want to be the only one whose wife kills them because of too many fish tanks...


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