# 6x2x2 Hap stock with S. Fryeri



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I have a group of 6 Sciaenochromis Fryeri- 3.5 to 4"+. I'd like to stock around this species a few other groups of Haps. I have quite a selection locally.

I recently posted questions about Champsochromis, but have decided against them for the time being.

Placidochromis sp.'Phenochilus Tanzania' - I can get these sexed and the males have a good amount of flecks. I saw them in person about a month ago. Pretty amazing. Reading on cichlidae.com, it's stated that they can be kept with 'any Haplochromine'. I'd like any input on these fish, as a large group would be what I'd like.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

They're very nice, they show little to no aggression to other species I keep them with and the multiple males I have don't seem to care about each other at all either I have 2 fully colored males in a 125 with only 3 females, I'll be adding one or two more males once I get some more females to get the ratio better.


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

My favorite hap. They are very mild tempered. I have a group of 1 male and 4 females. Been trying to get ahold of another male but they are hard to come by where I live. I have owned some aggressive fryeri that show aggression towards other blue fish but l have also owned some that are pretty mild so you might keep an eye out for that.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Good info guys. I talked with the breeder yesterday. He has over 20 males and 30 females @ 3.5-4". Both of you mentioned ratios. 1:2 sound good?

I'd like to add some red to the tank as well. I've never owned a truly red fish from Malawi. I think it's best to avoid any Aulonocara with Fryeri in the tank. Any thoughts on this? I have C. Borleyi 'Kadango' and P. Taeniolatus 'Red empress' readily available.

I'll make a list of what I can get my hands on later.

Thanks for any and all input.


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## PiccoloJr (Oct 14, 2013)

Depending on the temperament of the Fryeri. I have one in with peacocks and he doesn't bother any of them.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

PiccoloJr said:


> Depending on the temperament of the Fryeri. I have one in with peacocks and he doesn't bother any of them.


I was thinking more along the lines of the Fryeri's propensity to cross breed with Aulonocara females.

At this moment I have 2 males/5 females of S. Fryeri. I have them in with some mbuna and it needs to change. Although they have no aggression issues with eachother or other species and have spawned, they don't appear to belong.


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## PiccoloJr (Oct 14, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> PiccoloJr said:
> 
> 
> > Depending on the temperament of the Fryeri. I have one in with peacocks and he doesn't bother any of them.
> ...


Oh yeah, I've never kept breeding groups, but I've heard Fryeris are notorious for not caring who they mate with.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

Kadango will be fine. The red empress should be ok too compatibility wise. I think if you have females of the fryeri and red empress your chances of hybridization will be minimized but not outside the realm of possibility. If you truly want red go for the empress, kadango are more of a rust color.


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Good info guys. I talked with the breeder yesterday. He has over 20 males and 30 females @ 3.5-4". Both of you mentioned ratios. 1:2 sound good?
> 
> I'd like to add some red to the tank as well. I've never owned a truly red fish from Malawi. I think it's best to avoid any Aulonocara with Fryeri in the tank. Any thoughts on this? I have C. Borleyi 'Kadango' and P. Taeniolatus 'Red empress' readily available.
> 
> ...


Because Phenochilus Tanzania are mild tempered you could probably get away with having more males. You could go 1 male for every 2 females and I think you would be good. As far as red go I have both C. Borleyi 'Kadango' and P. Taeniolatus 'Red empress' in my all male tank. My Borleyi is on the aggressive side. Both of these are larger haps and I have seen Red empresses over 10" so you may want to keep that in mind as well.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

second Empress over borleyi if you're looking for red instead of an orange color. I have both, in my male tank, they're not overly aggressive (except with each other) and the empress is a bit more aggressive than the borleyi in my tank.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Appreciate the input so far everyone.

Assuming a setup with Fryeri, Star Sapphire and Red Empress...
I can get my hands on another mild mannered fish- Copadichromis sp. 'Virginalis Gold.' Sexed fish.
I should also be able to get some Lethrinops sp. 'Red cap' or furcifer(green face). I know they're more on the timid side.
Would any of these fish work with the top 3? I'd like to do 4 species total, keeping in mind the potential size of these fish Furcifer is listed as a 10" fish on this site but smaller elsewhere. So I don't know....


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

I think you'll be disappointed if you get the Lethrinops, as they will most likely be nice silver fish in that tank. And to be honest any time I've seen virginalis in the flesh they were extremely underwhelming when combined with other fish. What about a Mylochromis or one of the white Labidochromis?

Or a Victorian species?


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Appreciate the input so far everyone.
> 
> Assuming a setup with Fryeri, Star Sapphire and Red Empress...
> I can get my hands on another mild mannered fish- Copadichromis sp. 'Virginalis Gold.' Sexed fish.
> ...


I have owned all these species at one point or another. Out of all of these I would go with the red caps. The males in full mating dress are awesome. The golds I owned the blaze would often be dull or disappear. Most of the time they were just silver.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Geez Chester! You're such a buzz kill :lol: :x

But that's why I'm asking questions. And I have not seen Virginalis in the flesh.

I'm definitely keeping the tank all Malawi so no Vics. Mylochromis are a big fish. I'm looking to keep this local but shipping something in is not an issue.

I'm still waiting on a price list or two but here's what is out here locally that I have at least some interest in...
Cyrtocara Moorii sexed fish(the tank would have quite a few blue fish)
Copadichromis Borleyi, 'Virginalis gold', 'Mloto Fluorescent'
Protomelas Ornatus, Spilonotus, 'Taiwan Reef'
Every Nimbochromis except Linni is available(these fish may be too much for what I have planned so far)
D. Compressiceps- I've always loved these

There's more to list but I've had a long day. The two definites are S. Fryeri and the 'Phenochilus Tanzania.'

Thanks everyone.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Mylochromis ericotaenia would be a good addition if you are looking for green, I've got them in with my phenochilus, they get about the same size or smaller than borleyi, red empress, phenochilus, Cyrtocara and others on your list of what's available. Someone in the GCCA is breeding the Mylochromis as I got a group of F1's from a box swap with that club this winter.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

I'd go with the ornatus just because they are so different, or the spilonotus. Do you know which spilonotus they are? Stay away from the mloto - too similar in appearance to the fryeri.

Sorry about bringing you down. A lot of those virginalis types and open water haps look great in pictures but they are usually taken when the males are mating and all fired up. I too was very disappointed when I started to see many of these fish in person. I'd hate for you to buy them and be let down.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Hapguy- Somehow I missed your latest comment. What did you have stocked with the L. sp 'red cap'? Was it a breeding group?

lilscoots- I have not seen any Mylochromis in some time in the GCCA classifieds. I check in there often, especially the weeks before a swap. Still waiting on some lists....



> Sorry about bringing you down.


I'm just kidding around :wink: Glad I can ask questions here. I read just about every post in this section of the forum, including the Hap/Peacock ones. The majority of them pertain to all male, so not much help with the setup I'm planning.

The P. Ornatus are cool. I can get those as juvies around 3". And I do like to have 'different' types of fish from the norm. I'll steer clear of 'Mloto' thanks. Azureus is also avail, but I've read they can be timid. Also, it's another blue fish. Other Copadichromis avail- atripinnis, borleyi blue(what collection pt is this? I'm too lazy to look it up), kawanga, trewavasae(Lupingu and Msisi?).

I think I could stock a 10' tank with all male peacocks. So many different species and types available around here.


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## Hapguy63 (Feb 8, 2014)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Hapguy- Somehow I missed your latest comment. What did you have stocked with the L. sp 'red cap'? Was it a breeding group?


it was a few years back I had a group of 4 red caps 1 male and 3 females. I had them in a 55gallon with a group of 3 zrocks 1 male 2 female. I had them for 5 or 6 years eventually the zrocks got 2 aggressive so I moved the redcaps into my larger 120 with a bunch of other haps. I lost the females to a bloat outbreak and the male was never the same. He eventually died at around 6 years oldish. In his prime he was my favorite fish. I still have 2 of the zrocks from that tank they are ancient and don't breed anymore.

I am in a bit of a transition period with my tanks. I am getting out of the breeding game and am in the process of turning my 120 into an all male show tank. The only breading group I want to keep is the phenos as they are my favorite haps and I want to have 5 or so males at all times. 2 for the breeding group and 3 for the show tank. I have a bunch of widowed females that I have no idea what to do with. LFS only want males and not many breeders in my area that I could donate them to.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks for the info Hapguy.

I just got one of the lists. What caught my eye is P. sp. 'Spilonotus Tanzania'. This particular breeder also has P. Spilonotus 'Mara Rocks' as well. I love the look of the Tanzania. He suggested Tanzania as a better fit for my tank due to eventual size and temperament.

If I go with these, S. Fryeri and 'Phenochilus Tanzania' I feel there's room for a fourth species. I'm still digging around so...


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Been watching this process with interest. Iggy, given your 4 species, and harem set up since you're buying them sexable, will fry from this tank be viable? I've seen lots of all male discussions, and heard that female Hap/Peacocks are fairly drab and very hard to tell apart, so wasn't sure I understood the thinking here. If I missed it earlier, I apologize, but was just wondering what "niche" this tank might be filling in your collection/hobby?


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

given proper ratios hybridization is not as likely. It may still happen but is much less likely when species are chosen carefully and the numbers are right. female peacocks for the most part do look alike, female haps while often drab or silver are easy to tell apart if you stock appropriately. I decided against stocking Copadichromis trewavasae and Protomelas spilonotus together as their females look somewhat similar, I never saw any evidence of mixed spawning (wrong male in breeding dress, actual spawning of wrong species, female holding when her male wasn't in breeding dress, etc.) but the similar appearance of the females made me nervous enough to change it.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Hey Hose...

Here's some photos I've found on the web of my proposed stocklist, including males and females. I feel the fish are different enough.

Placidochromis sp. 'Phenochulis Tanzania' Star Sapphire

Female(I admit this photo looks almost too good)









Male









Protomelas sp. 'Spilinotos Tanzania'

Female









Male









Sciaenochromis fryeri Maleri Island

Female









Male- This is my fish
IMG_1567 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

I have all those fish in a 125 gallon right now. They are with a colony of 7 Blue Dolphins.

These Haps are in the mild side, so great chance it will be a good mix.

There are even 2 male Spilonotus Tanzania (Liuli), they get along except the sub-dominant one is yet to color up.

Only aggression I get is between the Blue Dolphin male and the Deep Water Hap....even then it on the mild side. You do not seem to have a Blue Dolphin in your radar, so this is a non issue.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

Heh, that "female" phenochilus looks like a Deep water to me. here's a fairly crappy shots of a male and females of my phenochilus.


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## hose91 (Mar 5, 2014)

Wow, those are some great fish, thanks for digging those up and posting them, both of you! I can see why you're angling for a red, though, to sort of balance it out. Pretty cool. Looking forward to seeing them all together in photos or maybe a video! Once again, I'm amazed by the depth of this particular hobby, and sort of dismayed I didn't find it earlier!

Thanks for the info earlier to, scoots, on the groups and breeding.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I've kept phenochilus and fryeri together twice... ended up cross breeding both times...


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I'm with you lilscoots on that photo.



Fogelhund said:


> I've kept phenochilus and fryeri together twice... ended up cross breeding both times...


This is... discouraging.


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## Chester B (Dec 28, 2012)

If you want some encouraging advice, I've kept the spilonotus tanzania and I can tell you the pictures just do not do this fish justice. The most intense royal blue, with such a rich golden yellow. I have had more than one male in a tank, although only one looked superb.

What happened with the Red Empress?

How about Mylochromis ericotaenia or Placidochromis johnstoni? Pretty different looking fish.


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## promoe (Apr 28, 2009)

Figured id upload a pic of mine


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## promoe (Apr 28, 2009)

v


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## promoe (Apr 28, 2009)




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## promoe (Apr 28, 2009)

sorry I posted some pics out of order really Iggy.. honestly I wanted to post the past pic of the SRE with my Giraffe. The difference between the both- SRE look great with them and the difference between a 10in fish and a SRE. The other pic are of imp. tiger,intermedius and blue otter. hope the pics help you . BTW there is an Azureus in there somewhere. lol


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks for all the pictures promoe. And all the while I thought you were an mbuna only guy  beautiful pics!


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## promoe (Apr 28, 2009)

lol I think everybody should have a show tank!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

So not much has happened with this project. I did scoop up 10 Protomelas sp. 'Spilonotos Tanzania' about a month ago. They're 2.5-3+" and have a tank to themselves at the moment.

I talked with someone about Fryeri with the Phenochilus. I don't fancy myself a breeder so much. I'm going ahead with my plan on stocking these 2 together. If I have issues I'll make the necessary changes. I also have feelers out there for the Malawi catfish, Synodontis njassae. So any fry in the tank should not last too long.

I'm still contemplating a fourth species as I move fish out of the tank. Just had someone buy 20 fish or so last night. Tough to see some of them go. I really like Mylochromis sp. 'lateristriga makanjila' but not easy to find. I'd like anyone's opinion on this fish with the others I'm planning on compatibility. And of course any other ideas...

Thanks.


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## PiccoloJr (Oct 14, 2013)

I can back the statement on the Lethrinops. I've had two different Lethrinops Red Cap and an Albus and none of them did well in my all-male tank. They weren't getting bullied or anything, but never showed a drop of color. I have an Ericotaenia and he does great. Nimbochromis species can be VERY aggressive so keep an eye on them if you get them. I know Venustus in paticular can be perfectly fine, and then when they get some size to them they can completley turn into a terror.


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## chiroken (Sep 25, 2007)

I've had the red caps and wouldn't again in mixed tanks of peacocks/haps. They did not do well at all. Have stunning potential but I don't know unless species only tank. I'd also go red empress vs. borleyi for more red versus orange (have both)


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks for the input guys. Lethrinops is definitely off the radar, as are all the Nimbochromis. Red Empress are gorgeous fish, but I already have P. sp. 'spilonotus tanzania' so I won't be stocking them.

I may have found some M. sp. 'lateristriga makanjila' which is also known as M. mchuse. Should be picking up the Star sapphires on Thursday.

Anyways, I finally converted this tank over for my new stock. I've never scaped a tank for Haps, so I'd appreciate any input regarding the layout. I wanted a natural look, and tried to keep the rocks to a minimum, but perhaps I went overboard? I like the way it turned out and left quite a bit of open swimming area.

IMG_2293 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr

IMG_2296 by AJK Aquaria, on Flickr


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## rennsport2011 (Oct 21, 2013)

Keep in mind that Sc. fryeri are much more rock/cave dependent than most Haps. They spawn in the wild in the caves, males live and hold territories in caves and rocks, and some of their feeding specialization is based upon preying on fry in the caves. I've always kept them with at least one large cave, and the dominant male always claims it.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

rennsport2011 said:


> Keep in mind that Sc. fryeri are much more rock/cave dependent than most Haps. They spawn in the wild in the caves, males live and hold territories in caves and rocks, and some of their feeding specialization is based upon preying on fry in the caves. I've always kept them with at least one large cave, and the dominant male always claims it.


Thanks. I've read up on their hunting technique, where they're found in the lake/habitat, spawning pits, etc. The pile of rock on the left stretches over two feet and has several cave openings. It should fit the bill. The pile on the right, not so much....


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## PiccoloJr (Oct 14, 2013)

The tank looks really good, man. I know you're a mbuna guy, but enjoy the haps!


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## jimmie (Oct 23, 2002)

Nice tank, I am a haps guy,, mbunas good but I like big and bold colors..


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks dudes. Enjoying it so far....


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