# Advice please?! Hospital tank, Bloat, cycle??



## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

My Hap Moorii that I just got has been acting funny. He stays in one spot in the aquarium, constantly rubs his head on the rocks and gravel, won't eat anything, and does frequent "coughing" behavior. I'm afraid something is wrong with him and I don't want to get the rest of my fish sick. So I just went out and bought a 10 gallon aquarium and filter. Problem is, it isn't cycled and I don't have anything I can put in it from my big aquarium. (Yes I am a total newbie and was completely un prepared for this!)

Can I put Prime in a hospital tank along with medication? I got Jungle Parasite Clear and am hoping to use that. You think I can stave off a cycle problem with the fish if I dose the 10 gal with prime each day? Any other recommendations??
And what is the best way to use the jungle parasite meds? Do I follow the instructions on the box or do you guys have a different way of using it?
From his symptoms I am thinking he probably has Bloat.

Help!


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

Well I may not be medicating him cuz I can't get him out of the 125 tank. ACK, I really hope he doesn't get my other fish sick!
At least I have an extra tank now, I can at least use it for quarantine for new fish before putting them in the big tank now.

I've been trying to get my sick fish out for a little while now, and I'm afraid I'm going to stress out all the other fish by chasing him around.

How likely is it you think that he's going to get the other fish sick?


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## sweetsummerrose (Mar 11, 2008)

Sorry to hear that. I had a similar problem my new tropheus moori that I got about 2 months ago now, and he was doing the same thing. My nitrates were high in my tank, so I assumed thats what it was, sadly I quarantined him,(too late) and he passed. I have then had 3 more of my favorite fish die, very devistating. I also think what my tank had was bloat, I treated with the jungle parasite clear on my whole tank and I quarantined each individual one, (that I knew was sick) I followed the the bloat cure on here.(illness and health section) (supposed to use clout) I think I finally have it nipped in the butt, but my recommendation would definitely be to quarantine ASAP. Hopefully others here can give you more specific advice.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

well how did you add him to the tank??

it sounds like he is flashing(rubbing head on rocks) and that is due to a change in ph or hardness. that could be due to the water difference from where he was to where he is.

if you know the breeder and trust them i would still quarentine for at least 1 week. then add the fish using the drip method, ie in a 5g bucket with as little water to start off with from the current tank the fish is in, then use an airline tube or a controlled tubed to 'drip' water into the 5g bucket. this allows for a gradual change to the water. less stress and better results.

i would not use the jungle yet. if you do not know for sure it is a parasite it will do nothing. also to treat a 125 tank is gonna take a lot of jungle.

if he looks healthy and you still cant catch him i would not worry so much. but it would be best to get him into the 10g.

also yes you can set up the 10g fresh with prime and do 50% WC daily with more prime. even with a new filter it will be fine. i would treat with melaflix and pimaflix for 2-3days and see if he improves. use a new does of the meds with new water.

hopefully that should help. GL :thumb:


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

I just caught him! Woo-hoo! I had the tank lights off, then I turned them on and was able to catch him then.

So I have him in the 10 gallon tank now. And I put a Jungle tab in.

So any further suggestions? Treat with jungle, tomorrow do a water change? How much water should I change, 50%? And then treat again with jungle?

Thanks for any help!! :thumb:

Oh and can I add PH buffer to the tank (Malawi/Victoria Buffer from Seachem) and will it be ok with the medicine?


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

try to make the water the same conditions as your main tank. so if you use the buffer on your maint tank then use the correct amount on your 10g.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

How long has the main tank been set up?

What are the water parameters on the main tank?

What is your tank maintenance routine?

Have you lost any other fish?

Added any new fish without quarantine recently?

The flashing is indicative of something going on, but it may be due to water quality rather than parasites.

Always use Prime with new water, whether you're using meds or not.

With the new tank, you'll need to monitor the water closely and be prepared to do daily water changes as necessary. I would hold off on medicating until we get the answers to the above questions.

What you're describing could be one of many things...Flashing doesn't usually accompany bloat, but in a new tank, anything is possible. It could be gill flukes, or it could be water issues.


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> How long has the main tank been set up?


About a month now. I used media from another tank to cycle this tank quickly.



> What are the water parameters on the main tank?


Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10, PH 8.0 (with addition of PH buffer a few days ago, it had been hovering around 7.4)



> What is your tank maintenance routine?


I do a partial water change (about 25% every weekend) and gravel vac half of the tank at the same time. I use prime with each water change, dosing for the entire tank.



> Have you lost any other fish?


No. All other fish are fine.



> Added any new fish without quarantine recently?


Yes. I haven't quarantined any of the fish before putting in the tank. Should have, and will now in the future (always learning). I added a Nimb. Venustus, and another fish that is either a Hap. Red Empress, or a Hap Big Lipped variety (still not sure). I currently have 11 fish in the tank. They have been added in groups of 3ish, all about 1 week apart.



> The flashing is indicative of something going on, but it may be due to water quality rather than parasites.


I've really been on top of the water quality. I really feel that this fish has a parasite, although I admit I have NO experience.  Not only is he flashing, but when he does move about it is very jerky (kinda like nervous ticks?!). He'll tilt his head sometimes, and then sit right again. And he is not eating ANYTHING. I've put food literally where it is falling right over him, in front of his nose, touching his fins...etc...and he does nothing. He seems to "cough" a lot too, like he wants to throw up? LOL...sorry. He has acted like that ever since I put him in the tank. I cannot see anything on the outside of him. He is a beautiful fish. He is a tad skinny right now because he hasn't been eating.

I did put a tab of Jungle clear in his tank yesterday. Today he is still flashing, and I haven't attempted to feed him. What are my next steps? Let him sit for today, water change tomorrow, retreat? Or should I head to the fish store and see if I can find Clout? Does Jungle Clear even work?
Or should I cut a tab in half and give him a half dosage of Jungle Clear today too?


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## sweetsummerrose (Mar 11, 2008)

Hello again, I really feel for you. Like I said earlier, sounds very similar to my fish, but my fish were not flashing too much, they were more immobile, not eating, I too would drop food right in front of them, and nothing. Tried 2 different types of medicated foods, I wanted to get them to ingest the meds, but nothing ;so very sad to see. Now this is just my opinion, I always think anyone who watches and knows their fish can tell if they are possibly sick, or something is going on with the water parameters.(which it sounds like your s are fine) I too always try to stay on top of things, but if what my tank had was bloat, it moved very quickly, always better to isolate one rather than wonder and risk losing more, I think. My fish might have been too far along, so the Jungle parasite did not work on four of my babies  , but I still treated my big tank and did big water changes in between, and the rest are all eating good, I am so happy, but I wish i would have acted sooner, especially my largest beauty; my bumblebee, shes gone(RIP) I think if you can get your hands on clout, do, but like I said just my opinion. My local fish stores do not stock clout, so I would have had to order, and I could not wait. So good luck, and I hope all works out, and maybe someone else here can give you more advice.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

well the water quality is good but a ph change from 7.4 to 8 is BIG. i am surprised more fish are not flashing.

with a rapid ph change comes stressed fish. i still think that is what is happening. although i am not sure about your course of action to remedy the sudden change.


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

dreday said:


> well the water quality is good but a ph change from 7.4 to 8 is BIG. i am surprised more fish are not flashing.
> 
> with a rapid ph change comes stressed fish. i still think that is what is happening. although i am not sure about your course of action to remedy the sudden change.


It didn't change from 7.4 to 8 over night. I used Seachem Malawi buffer and I increased the PH over 2 days. The fish has been acting like this ever since I put him in. He was in when the PH was 7.4 and was in throughout the transition. He acted the same the entire time. 
No other fish have any problems that I can see right now.

He's in a hospital tank now and acting the same way. The hospital tank has parameters exactly like the regular tank, minus the nitrates. 
What am I supposed to do? Just let him be and do nothing because "it must" be my water? What can I do to make my water better if that is the problem?

How about I treat him for a parasite just in case he does has one, because his symptoms really seem to be parasitic. This is not just me imagining something, and I don't want to just wait and see if he dies. I realize he COULD die, but I would rather TRY to do something instead of just waiting for that to happen.

What is the best way for me to treat this problem??


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

This may be from the fish going through the cycling of the tank. Even the slightest stressor can trigger issues like this, not uncommon at all in newer set ups.

Sounds like your water is okay now, though, and although I'd increase the water change amount each week to about 30-405, you should be okay in that respect.

With the coughing motion, I'm thinking that you may be dealing with gill flukes. JPC might help, but gill flukes can be quite hard to get rid of, so you will have to be persistent and extend the treatment way past the package directions. I would recommend using PraziPro or something a bit stronger.


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> This may be from the fish going through the cycling of the tank.


The tank was cycled before the fish went into the tank. Are you talking about the PH?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I mis-read what you wrote above about being on top of the water quality. (Twice, actually...  )

Now that I'm reading it properly, I'm assuming that you continued to monitor the water parameters _after_ adding the fish, and that you added the fish _immediately_ when you placed the established filter media in the new tank...Right?

Since only one fish is affected, I highly doubt it was the fluctuation in ph. I would treat for gill flukes, and keep a very close eye on the other fish for signs of problems.


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> I mis-read what you wrote above about being on top of the water quality. (Twice, actually...  )


No problem! 



> Now that I'm reading it properly, I'm assuming that you continued to monitor the water parameters _after_ adding the fish, and that you added the fish _immediately_ when you placed the established filter media in the new tank...Right?


Yes I added one group right at the same time I added the filter media. Then I added groups of fish each week. I've been monitoring the water quality daily (shhh...sometimes twice a day)and am becoming quite OCD about it...LOL. I am hoping to wean myself off of that soon.



> Since only one fish is affected, I highly doubt it was the fluctuation in ph. I would treat for gill flukes, and keep a very close eye on the other fish for signs of problems.


I am treating the quarantined fish for gill flukes right now, using the Jungle Parasite. I looked for PraziPro in the LFS's around here, but no one carried it. If he Jungle doesn't seem to work then I will order the PraziPro online in the next couple of days. I'm worried about my other fish. None of them are flashing or acting funny at all, but on 3 of them (the littlest ones) I can see what *might* be a reddish flush to their gills. Am I being paranoid? Wouldn't they be flashing if they had flukes?
Thanks for your help!
Oh, and my fish that I am treating with Jungle. He is still acting weird..hiding and not swimming around much. But I haven't noticed much flashing (still a little, but not anything like what he was doing) and I haven't seen him cough again. He's on his 2nd dose of Jungle.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

With gill flukes, you would probably do well to treat the main tank. You may not have to treat the main tank as aggressively as you will have to treat the one showing symptoms, but it's better to be safe than sorry, IME.

I believe that one "round" of the JPC is considered 3 treatments. I would go a full 6 treatments on the one that you have in isolation. It can be really easy to think you've got gill flukes under control only to find out that you don't, so it's best to extend your treatment the first time around. Squeeze in all the water changes that you can.


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## a82allison (Jul 17, 2008)

I saw him eat 2 pellets of NLS today! Woo-hoo! He still wasn't excited about it or anything, but when I put a few in there for him he grabbed 2 of them. That's the first I've seen him eat for almost 2 weeks. Hopefully that means he is coming around. *HOPE*


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