# cleaning sand substrate.



## babarian16 (Apr 27, 2011)

Hey guys, *** had my 90gal running for around 6months now with CA/SA cichlids in it and *** run into a problem i havent found a good solution for. The aquarium vacuum cleaner doesnt pick up most of the poo that is left on the sand substrate. *** been using a net to scoop it up but it takes so much time and i always end up taking a bunch of sand and some places i just cant reach without moving all my decor. Do you have any suggestions on what i could do??? I'm at a loss..

PS. i did change hose sizes as i thought my other one was too small but it still wont pick up the larger particles (pleco and Oscar poo mainly).


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Well...I have been thinking about this tonight as I type this. One way to do it is to take off the big large clear plastic piece off the end of the hose and just use the hose. That works VERY well....however....it works too well. It sucks up the feces plus sand/gravel or anything that gets close to it.

I have been trying to think of a way to attach the hose to something a bit larger than the hose but smaller in diameter than the big clear plastic piece(not sure what it is called) that comes with the gravel vacuum.

Maybe you can help me think of something laying around the house that is clear and smaller in diameter than the big clear plastic piece that comes with the python or the aqueon? The diameter of a silver dollar should work perfect...not so small it sucks up sand and gravel with ease and not so big that it doesn't pick up larger pieces of debris and feces.

I love DIY stuff.


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## Cartem2 (Oct 4, 2011)

You can use a power head to increase the flow on the bottom of the tank and send the poo towards your filters intake. This is the most common way of fixing this issue. Look up DIY "Under Grave Jets" (UGJs).


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

13razorbackfan said:


> One way to do it is to take off the big large clear plastic piece off the end of the hose and just use the hose. That works VERY well....however....it works too well. It sucks up the feces plus sand/gravel or anything that gets close to it.


This is what I do also. If the hose is sucking too strongly you can reduce the water pressure from the faucet and the suction will be reduced so that only waste gets pulled in. If you have playsand (as opposed to PFS) it may be harder because it's very light. Here's a video showing how to clean sand. It may be helpful.

I also find that despite the regular vacuuming it becomes necessary to periodically siphon out the sand a section at a time to rinse it in a bucket and then replace it. It's the only way to get it really clean. It's important to only do a section at a time (maybe a 1/3 of the footprint per week) so you don't mess up the beneficial bacteria in the substrate too much.

Here's a post (me quoting prov356) outlining how to do it.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

I appreciate this, as for play sand - I am developing the tank as we go along so I can get whatever is required for the project over being stuck in one option or the other.


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## babarian16 (Apr 27, 2011)

hey so i've been reading up on undergravel jets and the different hose vaccums and stuff for hours and i think i'm starting to understand.

*@cartem2:* is this the type of setup u were talking about? 



The only issue I have with this is that 1. it might be hard to do in an installed tank and 2. i really dont wanna see piping sticking out of the sand in my aquarium. I feel like it cheapens it. Any suggestion to these problems or alternatives?

In terms of the vaccum hose i use, I have the manual one not the one that connects to the faucet. looks kinda like this:








So not sure it would still work if i disconnected the plastic part...

thanks again for the replies


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi,

I am not running canister or hob I am looking to make use of a sump and thus the intake is pulling from the surface where-as the waste from the fish is sinking - this is why I am weighing in my options.

The python approach works for me, just my understanding is return lost sand over time can be a pain in the A**.


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## babarian16 (Apr 27, 2011)

Another thing i was looking at is this:









If i placed this near the bottom and angled it towards my filter from the opposite side of the tank would this help in circulating debris above the sand without blowing it all away?


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## bbortko (Nov 20, 2011)

babarian16 said:


> Another thing i was looking at is this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the 1050s and they help, however it is a very fine line between blowing sand and moving poop.


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## theyangman (Nov 5, 2011)

I have two koralia 4`s, I had them pointed a little too low, and it blew all the sand away.... I have to be very careful how they are aimed. It kinda sucks.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

I am not convinced that power heads would work in my scenario - I see this being a possibility for those who have an inlet feeding 3/4s into the tank.


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## babarian16 (Apr 27, 2011)

so if u find that fine line can one of these help in my case? i really dont want to see jets sticking out from the sand...i did use just the tubing from my vac and it was able to get the poo but took alot of sand with it..so looks like its back to the drawing board..
just sayin tim that im the OP of this thread so most of the comments are directed to helping my situation...


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> I am not convinced that power heads would work in my scenario - I see this being a possibility for those who have an inlet feeding 3/4s into the tank.


In your scenario I found the best thing in the past was the use of the spray bar with the holes offset from each other. I would drill some holes a bit up, some straight ahead, some slightly down and some almost directly down. I also had good success with a single large powerhead at the exact opposite side of the tank pointing directly at the spray bar. Where the two met(dead center of the tank) it would cause a undercurrent to roll backwards towards the ends of the tank thus keeping it stirred up.

In my SPS reef tanks I wanted to make sure the water was moving in all directions to allow the corals to be able to feed adequately.

You could even use a very large return pump with a ball valve and split off the return to two different spray bars. This worked well also.

In my tanks I always had a return pump running roughly 20 times turnover per hour. 120g tank I would look for a 2400gph pump as you will get a little loss from the return to the tank. Again...this is what I used in my reef tanks as the corals needed the flow. I had many fish in there as well. I am sure africans would do well in this also. Another thing...I had live rock stacked all the way across the back of the tank and had no way to get back behind it so I had a couple small power heads back there to allow for current behind the rocks so waste and debris did not collect.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

You find the power heads are effective in-regards to shifting waste instead of sand? The only issue I am having with this theory is that generally waste weighs more than sand?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> You find the power heads are effective in-regards to shifting waste instead of sand? The only issue I am having with this theory is that generally waste weighs more than sand?


It depends...of course no matter how you angle the powerheads or spray bar you are going to get some waste in tough to get spots. What I tried to do was keep the waste suspended until it reached the intake overflows. Sometimes it would just fall anyways.

The way I have my tank setup now...rectangle in shape...the waste flows either directly to the filter intakes or to the very back out of sight and since I do large water changes every 3-4 days I make sure to get it all at that time. My powerhead blows directly at the front of my glass...a bit upwards...and it splits the tank evenly right down the middle forcing equal amounts of water and current to each side of the tank. There are absolutely no dead spots especially in the front(rocks right in middle of tank) where the current is the strongest.

On my 30g grow out tank it is another story. I have more than 10 times filtration but the current isn't as strong. When I get my new canister filter it will take the place of my pwerhead on my main tank and I will move the powerhead to my 30g to fix that issue.

Really...IME...the best way to figure out what works in your setup is to try. I know you are doing research currently for your upcoming tank project but sometimes the best way is trial and error. There are so many variables to consider including amount and direction of flow, placement of rocks, where over flow box/s are located, etc....


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

babarian16 said:


> i did use just the tubing from my vac and it was able to get the poo but took alot of sand with it..so looks like its back to the drawing board..


If you're using a manual siphon can't you just dump any sand that get's sucked out back into the tank?

I've cleaned my tank many times with a manual siphon (before the Python and similar products were invented this is how most folks cleaned their tanks), and I get a few table spoons worth of sand from cleaning my six foot tank. I just give it a rinse and dump it back in at the next water change.


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## babarian16 (Apr 27, 2011)

ya technically i can, but i still lose some sand when im pouring out the water. At least its a way to help the problem but i dont want to be siphoning poo on a daily basis.... Thats why if i can at least find a way to keep my tank looking clean till my PWC id be super happy. I'm thinking i may try using a single powerhead to give current near the bottom.


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## S14Swap240sx (Jan 3, 2011)

i find with a the two spray bars from my canister filters and also a hydor pump, i get very little build up on the bottom of the tank.. some sand moves but it looks natural. i dont think its possible to win this battle..

*** drilled new holes, made some bigger, rotated the spray bars repositioned the circulation pump.. about a million times until i had the perfect mix of sand movement and poop free substrate. trial and error. total headache


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

S14Swap240sx said:


> i find with a the two spray bars from my canister filters and also a hydor pump, i get very little build up on the bottom of the tank.. some sand moves but it looks natural. i dont think its possible to win this battle..
> 
> I've drilled new holes, made some bigger, rotated the spray bars repositioned the circulation pump.. about a million times until i had the perfect mix of sand movement and poop free substrate. trial and error. total headache


This is what I have found as well.


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## babarian16 (Apr 27, 2011)

I hadnt thought of that. Right now i have my spray bar above the water to keep the surface agitated but maybe ill try moving it to the bottom near the sand n see if that helps b4 i got buy a power head.
Then i guess buy an air stone or something..

This thread is super helpful


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

I have yet found a theory I 100% will fix the issue but they all sound good.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

tim_s said:


> I have yet found a theory I 100% will fix the issue but they all sound good.


The only thing I haven't tried is diapers.


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## tim_s (Nov 27, 2011)

If I was to make diapers what would be the best material? - only kidding

I think I will just have to live with some facts.

1. I will need to vaccum
2. I will need to return sand every once and awhile.

The pain of having fish.


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## B.Roberson (Nov 6, 2011)

Corral!!!


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