# Angel Compatibility



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

hey guys, so, soon (very soon) I will have a 90g available, here is what will be in it for sure:

90g (48x18x24)
- 3, F0 Pterophyllum scalare "Brazil" (already owned) 
- 1 Male Bristlenose (may get him a girl friend if they don't cause to much grief...)

was it worth writing it in that format?... thats all I've got.

I am looking for other cichlids to add to it, big or small doesnt matter, though I already have ideas for small.

here are my thoughts on some small fish (not all of them will be added, but maybe one or 2 pairs)

- Trio of Apisto's
- Pair of Laetacara (likely dorsigerus)
- Pair of Blue Rams
- Group of Bolivians (need info on how many)

so really, I guess I need some suggestions for medium-largish fish (you know, 5-6"ish, give or take)

it needs to be peaceful, but able to hold its own if my angels decide to pair off... and preferably a bit of color.

here were my thoughts so far (obviously not all them will be added LOL)

- Aequidens pulcher (new genus now???)
- Aequidens portalegrensis
- Crenicichla regani
- Mesonauta festivus
- Biotodoma cupido (either pair or trio, not sure if these guys are pairing or harem)
- Cleithracara maronii (pair)
- Guianacara spp. (any I can get a hold of, and a pair)
- Geophagus spp. (likely Tapajos red head, which is the smallest I believe, a group of 1M:3F)

these are just my thoughts, and I am open to any suggestion on small or large cichlid tankmates, also any thoughts on a schooling tetra I could try out to!

I would love a chocolate cichlid but I fear they grow much to large.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

_Crenicichla regani_!!!! _Crenicichla regani_!!!! _Crenicichla regani_!!!!!

:lol:

Port cichlids are _Cichlasoma_ btw ... :wink:

Okay, so I personally would do a pair of regani and a _Laetacara_ species ... though for color, best bets would be _Biotodoma cupido_ (just saw some adults today at the LFS, beautifull) or _Geophagus_ sp. Tapajos 1's aka Tapajos 'Orangeheads' or some of the more colorful apistos.

If you do the dwarf pikes, deffinately get a large bodied tetra if you decide to add dithers. Regani are deffinately the best dwarf pike to use, one of their common names is 'the peaceful pike.'

We get it here fairly commonly, so I imagine Spencer could get some Incan Stonefish (_Tahuantinsuyoa macantzatza_) if you want to see mouthbrooding acaras. Or those new _Krobia_ sp. _'itanyi'_ that is listed as 'brazilian bluefaced mouthbrooder' or some such that everyone seems to have. Very pretty. As is _Aequindens patricki_, a smaller (6") true acara that shows up now and then.


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## benl.1036 (Apr 17, 2009)

Hey, do angels do well with german blue rams?


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

*benl.1036*, GBR's will do fine with Angels

*dwarfpike* :lol: :lol: :lol: , how typical, the guy with the screen name dwarfpike cheering for the dwarf pikes :lol:

port's are _Cichlasoma_? good to know for future reference so I can bug someone about it later 

I'm not a huge fan of the mouth brooders tbh 

I'd love a harem of the _Geophagus sp. "Tapajos"_ but is the tank big enough for a Harem of them?

I will get _Crenicichla regani_ if I can find any, I love pikes! and these are a favorite. I can adjust tetras if needed.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

alright, here is kind of the stock list I'm thinking as far as cichlids go:

_- 3, F0 Pterophyllum scalare_ "Brazil"
- 2 _Laetacara dorsigerus_ (M:F pair)
_- 2 Crencichla regani_ (M/F pair)
_- 1 Aequidens pulcher_

sound OK as far as the cichlid stock? this list can still change, not set in stone yet.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

*benl.1036*- Angels (except altums) wouldn't do well at the high temps that GBR's like.

*gage* - Yup, the reason all the centrals and a lot of south americans were shifted out of _Cichlasoma_ is becuase Kullander restricted it to the port cichlids only.

I am not a fan of advanced mouthbrooders like Malawi cichlids or Red Hump geo's ... but I don't mind delayed or intermediate mouthbrooders becuase they still pair (advanced mouthbrooders don't pair up). You do know _Geophagus_ sp. Tapajos 'Orangeheads' are mouthbrooders right? :lol:

I think *edburress* had two pair in a 75 gallon at one point, if I remember right. I know someone did!! But since they prefer larger groups, I think I will wait for a 6' tank to do a group rather than pairs. But that's just my overly conservative nature though honestly.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

nono, not mouthbrooders in general, just the 2 you showed me that I didnt have on my list (_Tahuantinsuyoa macantzatza_ and _Krobia sp. 'itanyi'_)

ya, I think I will avoid the Geo's, I don't feel right keeping a group of them in this sized tank.

*benl.1036* I guess my main question for you is 1) are the blure rams captive bred, and 2) are the angels captive bred, as captive bred fish will tolerate a wide variety of temperatures and Wild Caught will not.

just another question, are checkerboards eatable for the angels?


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## Morcs (Jun 1, 2009)

Thats a small amount of fish for a 90g...

I have a breeding pair of scalare and bolivan rams, 4 julie corys, a ****** and a BN all in a 29G Tall, and it works fine. Looks understocked if anything :lol:


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## DiscusQueen (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi there.. Just to add my 2 cents.. Don't know if you are planning on keeping everything in there for life or just til you get pairs or what..I have a 4 x2 x2 120 gallon and love having the angel/orangehead mix in there... It's a very colorful and active tank... but somehow peaceful..I keep the temps around 82 and have 6 angels and 6 orangeheads and a bn... The angels and ohs basically ignore each other except at feeding time when it becomes a feeding frenzie.. Don't know if you saw my pics.. hopefully new ones coming soon.. but if you scape with df sand and flat rocks and maybe a plant or two everyone will be happy.. Now granted they are all fairly young fish.. the angels are about 50 cent./dollar size and the largest oh is about 3 1/2 inches... and the 3 plants are surrounded by rocks so the oh's don't redecorate..
I think you could have either a group of 5 or 6 ohs' with your angels or a group of 5 bolivians if you keep the temps lower around 80 or a pair of blue rams if you keep the temps higher. 82ish. I've found my angels actually seem to do better with the higher temps..
You need to realize that, as I'm sure you are aware, once the angels pair off they can become little devils :lol: :lol: .. some I've had get really killer mean.. so at that point all bets are off. The ohs grow fairly slowly... so far I really like the combo.. Tried some blue rams in the mix but they didn't make it... hard to get good quality now.. Are you planning on starting with juvies?? I don't know anything about the pikes other than liking DP's and Ed's... so not much help there.. Keep us posted on what you end up doing.. Good Luck Sue


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

*Morcs* those are just the cichlids, I plan to have Plecos/Catfish, Tetras, Silver Hatchets etc. I want the most natural behavior I can see out of them, in a stocked tank you don't get that.

*DiscusQueen*, I would like to keep everyone in there for life, so i'm kind of hoping the angels don't pair up, as I know how angel can be, I mean, if i wasn't worried about the angels little devil behavior I'd have Altums 

and ya, I've always found angels did better in warmer temps.

In order for me to comfortably get the orange heads I think I would want a 5-6ft tank, as the males can get 7", and even 1M:3F that is a lot, for my taste anyways, so I'm think a "school" of bolivian rams is in order


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## benl.1036 (Apr 17, 2009)

gage- all the fish i will purchase will be captive bred. I just wanted to know from the agression standpiont of the rams, although rams and angels both are mildly agressive for cichlids. Thanks for the help.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

See, my experiences are differant. I was never able to keep even captive bred blue rams until I cranked the temp up to 84F. After that I never had any troubles, and even had them breed.

The reverse is true with angels. I always kept mine at 76-77, raising it to 80 when I was breeding them. But after the fry hatched I would always bring the temp back down, as I saw better health for the parents.

Gawds it's been almost two decades since I've bred angels now though. I feel old. :?


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

weird, dumb fish... LOL

and just to make you feel older I'm not even 2 decades old yet


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

how hard are _Cichlasoma dimerus_ to find, I just love the fins:


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Spencer should be able to get them from Felipe. Lots of online places has them as well, at least done here.


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## apistomaster (Jun 22, 2006)

Can you get any more of the wild Scalares? I would keep a group of 6. I have 8 Peruvian Scalares, 6 formed 3 mated pairs.
Crenicichla regani are actually a good choice. They won't even bother GBR's. They bother each other.
Mesonauta spp are well worth considering. Just bought 10 juveniles myself and put them in my 125 gal wild Nhamunda Blue Discus. 
I think some of the smaller Geos would be OK, myself but you may need to re-home them after a few years if they become too large. I used to keep some that were in the surinamensis group with my wild Blue Discus and they made a great combo.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

thanx for the reply apistomaster, I'd love to grab 3 more scalare but Spencer doesnt have the Brazilian scalares any more, and I would feel weird adding Wild Guyana ones he has now. If he gets more Brazilian's I will likely grab a few more. granted if the Guyana look the same, I wouldn't mind to much, as I don't really plan on breeding them.

I'd love to get the festivums, probably only 1, unless they do that much better in pairs or groups.

I would rather not need to rehome the fish later, I'd like them to be there permanently.

I'll keep an eye out for the C. regani.


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## apistomaster (Jun 22, 2006)

I would feel the same way about mixing the Guyanese Scalares with the Brazilian fish.
Only time will tell but there is some reason to believe that there are yet to be described Pterophyllum spp out there beyond P. altum, P. scalare and P.leopoldi.

The Mesonauta are very similar to the Pterophyllum spp in that a small group is better than a single specimen. They have a social nature which adds to what makes them interesting fish but you would miss all that if you only kept one specimen. Mesonauta are said to eat Pond Snails so I am hoping mine clean them out of my tank once they are large enough to tackle them.

I can point you to a source of juvenile F1 Mesonauta acora from the Rio Araguaia if you are interested. The breeder has a bunch of them and will accept most any offer plus Postage.
He is in Connecticut. The fish are presently 3/4-1 inch. I just bought 10 and put them in my 125 gal wild Nhamunda blue Discus tank. Been enjoying them a lot.
I noticed you are Canadian so it may not be practical for you to buy them from a source in the US.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

> Only time will tell but there is some reason to believe that there are yet to be described Pterophyllum spp out there beyond P. altum, P. scalare and P.leopoldi.


now I'm not even going to look into the Guyana if there is a chance it will be considered hybrids... I'm such an odd person :lol: I have flowerhorns, I have always loved flowerhorns, as soon as it comes to a hybrid beyond flowerhorn's I don't like it, I can't stand any hybrid, besides flowerhorns... is that weird? LOL



> I can point you to a source of juvenile F1 Mesonauta acora from the Rio Araguaia if you are interested. The breeder has a bunch of them and will accept most any offer plus Postage.
> He is in Connecticut. The fish are presently 3/4-1 inch. I just bought 10 and put them in my 125 gal wild Nhamunda blue Discus tank. Been enjoying them a lot.
> I noticed you are Canadian so it may not be practical for you to buy them from a source in the US.


I'd be more then interested, but being 16 my parents wont allow me to order fish online/get fish shipped to me , I have to find them around here, maybe I'll talk to Spencer (his shop is about 10 minutes away from me, maybe he can get them in, if hes willing to do the order for them, or I can be patient and wait 

my LFS has a single baby, thats why I asked about singles, as I was debating on taking that one, but don't want to get others from a different source and risk the hybrid issue.

do you think a group of 3 Mesonauta and a group of 3 Pterophyllum would make the top of the tank look crowded?


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## apistomaster (Jun 22, 2006)

"do you think a group of 3 Mesonauta and a group of 3 Pterophyllum would make the top of the tank look crowded?"

No. I think they would be a nice combo and a compatible one.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

sweet, maybe I'll look at getting a few small Mesanauta's then, let them grow, I may be able to get that LFS to order more of them.


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