# Enough Filtration



## kb3781 (Jul 22, 2008)

All:
I have a 125g tank with about 40 Mbuna in it.
The water does not seem nearly clear enough and it seems like I have enough filtration.

I am currently running 2 AC110 HOB filters on it.
I have altered one of the AC110s to just have double sponges and it is therefore only doing Mechanical filtration.
The other AC110 is set up normally with 1 sponge, carbon and Biological ceramic rings.

Does this seem like enough filtration to you all?

I also have a 135g which I don't have an issue with, but it currently only has 3 Frontosa in it.
But, the 135g is crystal clear and it is what I use for comparison to realize that the 125g is not nearly as clear.


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

If it is a clarity issue it probably isn't specifically the fault of the filters but maybe the filter media. It could also be that the bio-load is pretty high. It could be a bacteria bloom.
We need to know more about the tank. How long it has been up and running, water change/cleaning schedule, feeding schedule, lighting duration, size of fishes, any new additions/changes to the tank(substrate, equipment, livestock etc.), how long it has been cloudy, when did the cloudy water appear?
To solve the problem I would up the anty on the water changes. Maybe even try a filter media that is very fine. If you are feeding a lot of food you could try to cut back. Also consider how long you leave the lght on. You may be experiencing a bloom of some sort. Let us know.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I have a 125 gal with 2x AC 110s, 2x Magnum 350s & 2x Magnum 250s...

I think your tank is grossly under filtered...


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## kb3781 (Jul 22, 2008)

I was thinking that I may be underfiltered.
To answer some of smellsfishy questions...
- Tank has been running for about 6 months.
- The cloudiness has started appearing in the last month or so.
- Water change about 35% once a week
- The fish were all juveniles 6 months ago and they are starting to get much bigger now. This may be my problem. I have 40 fish: Demasoni, Yellow Labs, Acei, ps. Flameback, Red Zerbras
- I feed NLS twice per day. The amount I feed is gone within 30 seconds...not even enough time for anything to hit the bottom
- I leave the lights on about 7 hours each day. No live plants.
- No recent changes in the tank other than removing 3 frontosa about 1 week ago to put them in their own 135g tank.

I'm starting to think that they are all just getting large enough that I'm now underfiltered for the bio load....????

It's not horrible. Most people would look at the tank and think it is fine. My wife claims she doesn't notice it. However, where I really notice it is looking in from the side. You can barely see out the other end. It is a 5 foot long tank. My 6 foot long 135g tank is crystal clear looking all the way though it from the side.


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## clgkag (Mar 22, 2008)

I would think about adding a nice big cannister filter.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

A couple false assumptions in the opening statement. By adding a second sponge to the AC, you did not make it primarily mechanical. When the AC 110 was called the AC 500 it had no bio rings and the foam was the only bio filter. You have doubled up what was once the 500. The filtration is probably more than enough, but if you want to try polishing the water, add filter floss between the 2 foam elements. You can add a second foam to the other AC, and the bio rings to the first one. You don't need the carbon.


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## Vincent (May 7, 2004)

To find out if your filtration is enough, test for ammonia and nitrates. If they are near zero then your filtration is enough.


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

I like the filter floss idea as well as maybe increasing your water change percentage until this clears up. Try a larger water change maybe 50%. 
Or two of your normal water changes in the same week, maybe 3 or 4 days apart.
For the time being you could feed once a day just until things clear up for you. It probably isn't the cause of the cloudy water but it could help.


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## Afishionado (Jun 6, 2006)

Vincent said:


> To find out if your filtration is enough, test for ammonia and nitrates. If they are near zero then your filtration is enough.


No doubt you mean amonia and nitrites. Nitrates are the end product of the nitrifying-denitrifying job that our biological filters do once they are established.


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## moi_eater (Jul 11, 2004)

Along with filter floss, increasing water changes, and reducing feeding; you could also keep the lights off unless you are viewing the fish. This may help the cloudiness if it's partially caused by suspended algae. The lights don't really need to be on for 7 hours unless you had live plants or are trying to grow algae on your rocks/background.


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## kb3781 (Jul 22, 2008)

Wow....well I added a canister filter and now the tank is crystal clear.
I took a chance on Ebay with a Chinese made knockoff brand (sunsun). The price was half that of the equivalent name brands so I took the chance. It also has the UV sterilizer if that really does any good. It only took 24 hours for it to make the tank crystal clear. We'll see how long it lasts before breaking down now.
Thanks for all your input.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

It seems like you solved your problem but I wanted to comment on the difference between filtration and filtration media.

If you have dirty water, I would hesitate to say you need more filtration. Filtration exists to do two things, convert nitrogen and remove waste from the water.

Mechanical filtration is purely cosmetic. Bio filtration is necessary for your fish to live. The amount of necessary filtration needed is determined by your filters ability to convert ammonia to nitrate. If there is no ammonia or nitrite in your water you don't need more filtration. If your filter cannot convert all of the ammonia produced by your bioload then you need more filtration capability - either replace or add a new filter.

Now, if you have dirty water and you want it to be cleaner but don't have a problem with ammonia, then you don't necessarily need a new filter you just need to use filter media that is better at mechanical filtration. This does not necessarily mean a better filter. In most cases fine filtration media can be added to your current filter. Certainly, if you wanted, you could also adding a new filter with fine filtration media in it.

I would just prefer to say that more filtration is needed only when there is a problem with ammonia, not with dirty water.

For cleaner water most people have a lot of success with filter floss, or polyfill.


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## kb3781 (Jul 22, 2008)

Boredatwork:
Thanks for the input. I understand the theory of everything you are saying.
I didn't need any more biological filtration because every time I tested my water paramters the amonia and nitrites were always good. However, I couldn't get rid of the foggy/cloudiness of the water no matter what I tried.
Here were all of my attempts with 2 AC110's:
1) Initially I had both AC110s running "normal" (Sponge, Carbon, Bio Rings)
2) Then I took one of the AC110s and removed the carbon and BioRings and added a second sponge. Now had one running "normal" and the other with double sponges....still cloudy
3) Then I set up both AC110s as follows:
No Carbon.
1.5 sponges in each
A layer of filter floss between the bottom sponge and half sponge.
BioRings on top.

None of the above worked.....
I hooked up a Canister filter with a UV sterilizer, and the tank was crystal clear within 24 hours.
I really don't understand why none of my AC110 solutions worked. It seems like they should have worked. I have 2 other tanks which AC110s work just fine on, but I can't argue with the results...
I'm confused, but at least I'm happy with the tank now.


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

kb3781 said:


> I understand the theory of everything you are saying.


Thats rare!



kb3781 said:


> I hooked up a Canister filter with a UV sterilizer, and the tank was crystal clear within 24 hours.
> I really don't understand why none of my AC110 solutions worked. It seems like they should have worked. I have 2 other tanks which AC110s work just fine on, but I can't argue with the results...
> I'm confused, but at least I'm happy with the tank now.


If you do a search on these forums you will see that a lot of people have problems with cloudy water, or water with tiny particles in it. In almost all of these cases the standard filtration doesn't seem to help. I think this is something that is not always fully understood - or at least I have never been able to find an good answer to why this occurs. Especially since it seems like some people never have this problem while other do. In fact a lot of times I think when people post about this problem, because most people have not experienced it, they tend to not understand. A lot of times this results in solutions that are not addressing the problem and therefore do not work, and that is frustrating.

Usually filter floss will fix most of these types of dirty water. However in your case it was not helping. The good thing is that mechanical filtration is very easy to understand. If the media has holes in it, only things larger than the size of the hole will get filtered out. So that means even though you were using filter floss, whatever was making your water cloudy was smaller in size than the holes in the filter floss. My guess is that you had a problem with some kind of micro organism, and that the added filtration was not the cure, but the UV sterilizer. Most likely the sterilizer killed off whatever it was in your water.

The important thing is that you don't have any more cloudy water!


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## JDS (Nov 28, 2008)

kb3781 said:


> Boredatwork:
> Thanks for the input. I understand the theory of everything you are saying.
> I didn't need any more biological filtration because every time I tested my water paramters the amonia and nitrites were always good. However, I couldn't get rid of the foggy/cloudiness of the water no matter what I tried.
> Here were all of my attempts with 2 AC110's:
> ...


 more than likely it was a bacteria bloom. That's why the UV worked. It also could have been a form of alge.


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## EHEIMFAN (Dec 13, 2008)

Vincent said:


> To find out if your filtration is enough, test for ammonia and nitrates. If they are near zero then your filtration is enough.


Ammonia and Nitrites should always read zero, Nitrates between 0 and 40 PPM.


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