# UG Filter newb



## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

Hi Setting up new tank i was on here before under a different name but could not transfer after The last update has been a while since iv been on and things look nice around here

Also my HOB filters are 2 penguin 350's

but i bought new 55 gallon and transfered everything now im resetting up the old one. I have Purchased a UG Filter and already have air pumps for it 
But now i also want do powerheads what size for my tank willl i need i will most likley bedoing either demasoni or so.

so yes my real question. What size power heads should i be running?

what the difference between pulling and pushing water with reversible pump? Does it reverse instantly at the flip of a switch or are their other modifications.

I have two intake tubes so i guess im going to have to grab two?

and also whats the differnce of running the power head vrs and air pump the obvious of more water movement. either way im dead set on powerheads so on they go.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

If you are running a UGF, then powerheads are they way to go. The function of the power heads is to pull water/waste into the substrate, so reversing it would be a bad idea unless your tank was empty of fish.

UGFs have a reputation for being nitrogen sinks- you will end up with a thick mulm of food and fish waste under the filter, which is not accessible to clean. After that mulm has a chance to form, disturbing it could cause a significantly damaging ammonia/nitrite spike. They can be properly managed with regular weekly vacuuming and a thin layer of subtrate (~1"), but please note that UGFs are not helpful for keeping your water quality in good shape.

I recommend returning the UGF, and go with a sand substrate.

But, if you think it'll work for you, then I'd recommend two AC powerheads, Model 30 for powering a 55g UGF. I never used air pumps for UGF (not enough water movement) and the AC powerheads have hose ports on the nozzle, and typically come with a venturi valve.


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

i have returned the ug filter for now and decied to go with what worked last time is sand and keeping the two marineland penguin 200s or should i upgrade to the 350's they both have the expanded slots for running two pads.

i still would like to keep thingsgoing along the bottom with some motion i plan on doing tank length bubble wall. but what about a circulation pump or two at the bottom? am i thinking to much in to the tank or what, my main goal is to keep waste up off the bottom for the filter to catch out of the filter. i ofc will still do my weekly cleaning and such but has any one else had the ciculation pumps in a 55?


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

I think the solution you are looking for are sand jets. Here's my last one:










There are three outlets on this one for a 55g tank; I powered it with a submersible Rio pump. A submersible Powerhead connected to a prefilter can do the same trick.


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

yes i think this is EXACTLY what im looking for im going to run to the home depot in a little bit here what are the supplies what size pipe whats easiest to fit in to most submersable pumps. i see a fitting their. on the left side


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

I'd say go for the two 350's and a circulation pump and call it good. I have an Aqueon 1250 on my 75G and it works great. You could probably get buy with the 950, but I don't think the 1250 would be overdoing it. I'm thinking of adding another one to my tank.


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

This is what i was thinking of powering it with i picked up a whimpy 150gph power head that does some but im still wanting to add a a total of 5 jets or so and it wont keep up i dont think even with two so i was thinking of running this either 2x marineland maxijet 900 power heads (if there is something of a bit lower price let me know lol cause at nearly 40 bucks pop they cost nearly as much as my HOBs . im thinking i want something around 500 gph to have a decent flow for 6 jets if i wanted.

Iv played with design abit here and there with just the one pump and one side with some decent results but i still notice some fairly dead spots now this will all change once sand is in and rocks, but its nice to have an idea of what the action is gonna be, im running threw designs and looking at other peoples as well i guess ill use this thread as a log and keep you all updated! a bit later im going put a few pics up of a few of the designs im working on. Im seeking out the correct fittings and such so its just kind the PVC and just im worried about right now. so dont mind all the ugly pipe work and connections

I was thinking of powering it with one of these http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.j ... lInUS%2FNo

any thoughts on other brands and total GPH and designs are appreciated!


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

heres a few design shots

first one i thought maybe extra around piping was killing some flow










here is second


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

$40 for both'? That's actually a pretty good deal for two decent powerheads. I have a 400 on my 20L and it works great! They are one of the best powerheads for the price. Aquatop has some cheaper ones, but I would spend a few extra bucks and get the maxijet.


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

They are 40 bucks a piece if it was 40 bucks for both then heck yea id be on it!

heres current setup that im kind liking my self single pump maxijet 1200, 300gph. with the setup below it will ofcourse be the same on the other side aswell.

what do you think about adding a T on one of the angled pieces coming in from the pump to the PVC and putting another head. i just worry about losing more pressure. im really worried about not having enough flow and to much flow moving my sand around. would be great to hear about some of the people who have used sand with this type of setup. beening browsing threw threads as much as i can.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

That was fast- :thumb:

Your jet arrangement will depend on your aquascaping. Think of making a flow pattern that will circulate poo towards your filter intakes. so, the last one looks like you are on the right track. 300 gph might be a bit much, but any particular jet in your system can be opened more widely so that the flow is dispersed a bit. I played with my arrangement in the bath tub while testing... much easier than in tank.


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

thanks that was a great idea to check it out in the tub it made for getting it to lay flat ten times easier and about 80 percent dryer.

I thought about taking step by step photos but the design was so sporadic and changed so many times (and i was super excited about the pump and getting it together and getting this tank to where it can sit. its all done i have few pictures working on the nozzles and playing with settings on the pump.

thanks for the help guys ill keep up on this thread as far as fish to! im going to do all demasoni in it i think and am gonna add 4 every week once its ready till about 20 or so to start weeding out


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

ShckTrprTk said:


> They are 40 bucks a piece if it was 40 bucks for both then heck yea id be on it!
> 
> heres current setup that im kind liking my self single pump maxijet 1200, 300gph. with the setup below it will ofcourse be the same on the other side aswell.
> 
> what do you think about adding a T on one of the angled pieces coming in from the pump to the PVC and putting another head. i just worry about losing more pressure. im really worried about not having enough flow and to much flow moving my sand around. would be great to hear about some of the people who have used sand with this type of setup. beening browsing threw threads as much as i can.


They are $17 a piece on kensfish.com plus $14 shipping so that is less than $80. I know where you can get them even cheaper if you'd like to PM me.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

ShckTrprTk said:


> im going to do all demasoni in it i think and am gonna add 4 every week once its ready till about 20 or so to start weeding out


Don't forget to cycle your tank... viewtopic.php?f=4&t=239823

Once cycled, you can add all your fish at once and without damaging any of them with ammonia/nitrite. :thumb:


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

yea thats what im waiting on now i had some quickstart filters but im going to give it some time and see im taking daily reading


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

heres a link to some photos! didnt want to over burden the thread yet


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

http://s98.photobucket.com/user/sunnehs ... nk%20Build


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

It's coming along! I really like the look of a jewel aquarium. They do a good job keeping things minimalistic and sleek.


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

what do you mean a jewel aquarium?


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

ShckTrprTk said:


> what do you mean a jewel aquarium?


Isn't that the brand?


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

ohhhhh tbh i dont know the brand on the tank.imagine its some where on the bottom of the tank but iv never bothered to look it was a freebie tank  i just filled it and put filters on it


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

ShckTrprTk said:


> ohhhhh tbh i dont know the brand on the tank.imagine its some where on the bottom of the tank but iv never bothered to look it was a freebie tank  i just filled it and put filters on it


OH, ok. I was mistaken.

Freebie huh? Nice! Can't beat that!


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

triscuit said:


> If you are running a UGF, then powerheads are they way to go. The function of the power heads is to pull water/waste into the substrate, so reversing it would be a bad idea unless your tank was empty of fish.
> 
> UGFs have a reputation for being nitrogen sinks- you will end up with a thick mulm of food and fish waste under the filter, which is not accessible to clean. After that mulm has a chance to form, disturbing it could cause a significantly damaging ammonia/nitrite spike. They can be properly managed with regular weekly vacuuming and a thin layer of subtrate (~1"), but please note that UGFs are not helpful for keeping your water quality in good shape.
> 
> ...


Sorry most of this is untrue. Revers flow UGFs don't get a build up beneath them (a prefilter on the powerhead prevents this) and a 1" layer of gravel is too thin. While there are alternative methods of filtration, some better, UGFs still work, as they did when they first became popular 50 years ago. The local Big Al's has almost all of their (100 or more) fresh water tanks filtered by UGFs, and as is typical in a store, the tanks are usually heavily stocked. Many people leave their cannister filters for months without cleaning them, which is no different than leaving a UGF for months without vacuuming. UGFs are not ideal for tanks that house digging fish, which is most cichlids, although cichlids were kept very successfully, for many years, using UGFs.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

BillD said:


> triscuit said:
> 
> 
> > If you are running a UGF, then powerheads are they way to go. The function of the power heads is to pull water/waste into the substrate, so reversing it would be a bad idea unless your tank was empty of fish.
> ...


I for one have only had issues with UGFs. They do build of detritus beneath them and don't really do a lot for filtering the tank. They are ok as biological filters, but I don't like how they function. I only use them on one tank right now and I am thinking about getting rid of it.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

You're approach is much more likely to be considered when you come in with "I disagree" or "My experience has been..."

It is my opinion that what Big Al's does has little bearing on this discussion- an automatic water change system negates any nitrate buildup if properly utilized. Most commercial tanks that I've seen that were not for display only also get torn down regularly, which a hobbyist isn't likely to do either. Canister filters do not have dead zones, which I have repeatedly seen in UGF.

As Bill said, UGF were used heavily for ~50 years... but the same old timers I've seen using them insist that water changes are dangerous and never worry about nitrate concentration.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

I guess he was talking about reverse flow or UGJs. That is a different story. I would still avoid them, but to each his or her onw.


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

my main goal wasnt really for extra filtration, im fairly sure i have plenty of filtration, it turns nearly 12.75 times an hour, with the marineland 350's. i was just looking to keep things moving along with the stuff that settles along the bottom. more of a presentation problem than a actual filter problem,

im fairly new i havent had to many setups and ill try a bit of everything im sure in the future! and i take in everything person has to say!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

ShckTrprTk said:


> my main goal wasnt really for extra filtration, im fairly sure i have plenty of filtration, it turns nearly 12.75 times an hour, with the marineland 350's. i was just looking to keep things moving along with the stuff that settles along the bottom. more of a presentation problem than a actual filter problem,
> 
> im fairly new i havent had to many setups and ill try a bit of everything im sure in the future! and i take in everything person has to say!


I would say just get a circulation pump then. You could do undergravel jets, but a circ pump would be the easiest. Just be sure to vacuum the gravel thoroughly and turn it over regularly and you should be ok.


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

yea i opted for the UGJ i stir sand alot any ways cause iw as taught to be worried about all the stuff that sits in it


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

ShckTrprTk said:


> yea i opted for the UGJ i stir sand alot any ways cause iw as taught to be worried about all the stuff that sits in it


Won't The UGJs blow the sand around clouding the water? Just wondering, not real familiar with this type pf setup.


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

clhinds78 said:


> ShckTrprTk said:
> 
> 
> > yea i opted for the UGJ i stir sand alot any ways cause iw as taught to be worried about all the stuff that sits in it
> ...


i will upload a photo and no it hasnt i have them set slightly above the sand where they are sticking out. before the jets the sand piled up but i have NO sand being blown around after its all settled. i kinda of played with ith i have the pump turned all the way up. pushing the full 496 GPH that the aqueon 1700 utlity pump. i have 5 jets so each one is running right around 100gph threw the nozzle.

I dont know about you guys but i love seeing peopels stuff so heres some pics!










This is the UGJ before i put on the jets and laid the aqua scaping. 


















This Is the final set up with these rocks atm. going to go look at some landscaping places this weekend. for some cooler like rocks i want some rounded type rocks of different colors i like these rocks but i dunno i just dont think it looks good as some of the stuff i see


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## ShckTrprTk (Jul 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the input guys its all appreciated what do you guys think of my rocks? and the set up of them.

heres a few shots of the sand infront of my jets the one on the far left the tank does a little piling but thats okay im hoping with the 15 or so fish it will have in it they will be playing and quiet a bit of fun!

My jets are 3 on the left side of tank and 2 on the right, i opted for two on the right because my pump is on the right side where the jet that is on the back side on the left is. so theres plenty of movement back there. The two rocks in the front hide the two jets that shoot from the middle to each respective side. i will upload a video of the jets running and me blowing around some sand a little later like i said there is only minumal on the front left side that builds up but i think thats because the pipe isnt even pressured.

FRONT LEFT 









Middle TWO









Front Right


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

triscuit said:


> You're approach is much more likely to be considered when you come in with "I disagree" or "My experience has been..."
> 
> It is my opinion that what Big Al's does has little bearing on this discussion- an automatic water change system negates any nitrate buildup if properly utilized. Most commercial tanks that I've seen that were not for display only also get torn down regularly, which a hobbyist isn't likely to do either. Canister filters do not have dead zones, which I have repeatedly seen in UGF.
> 
> As Bill said, UGF were used heavily for ~50 years... but the same old timers I've seen using them insist that water changes are dangerous and never worry about nitrate concentration.


I respectfully disagree. Big Al's does not have an automatic water change system, but rather an individual who vacuums the gravel and changes the water, so it is relevent to this discussion. It is interesting that a long time hobbyist, presenter, and published author and I spoke of this a while back, he told me back when he had in excess of 600 tanks, they were pretty much all filtered with UGFs. Regardless,while there may be many better methods of filtration, the fact is that they work. While I don't have any UGFs going now, the last one was running for 12 years without a tear down. UGFs are often called nitrate factories, which makes me laugh, because every working filter is a nitrate factory, and a cannister that has gone months without cleaning is no better than a UGF that has gone without a gravel cleaning,(except for reverse flow).
While I wouldn't recommend a UGF, I also wouldn't recommend a cannister either, but not because it doesn't work.


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