# building a 500g one glass sided tank between 3 walls



## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

this is my space and i would like to ditch the 150g and put in a concrete slab at the same height as the tank stand i have now but it will occupy the whole space between the walls.

the final dims will be 11ft long by 3ft deep by 2ft high.

i was wondering how easy it would to put in a concrete slab without having to put in structure underneath if it was supported by three sides.

also the walls i guess are concrete or blockwork with a layer of thin limestone tiles. I suppose i would have to waterproof the walls and the supporting slab.

also in order to acheive a clean join of the glass and the walls/slab i would imagine i would have to introduce an allaround groove although this might be hard if the glass needs to flex to fit into it??

maybe there are examples somewhere of a similar scenario??

with a 500g tank this size i would hope to get a good flow going from say left to right to remove poop.. so i was thinking one monster canister that was designed for ponds. prehaps an eheim.

i know people say sump but i have seen some large tanks with these monster canisters and they say they are preferable for malawi.

another issue is that the 150g is in the way... maybe ill empty it with just a couple of inches of water and drag it forwards across the marble??.. maybe the 150g should become the sump??

any thoughts of my idea are welcomed.


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## under_control (Jan 9, 2008)

There is no easy way to just add a structural slab to this setup. It would have needed to be done when the walls were built. It is too late now.


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## oscars4me (Feb 22, 2009)

While I do admit it would be difficult to do what your thinking it's never too late. 

Why don't you build with wood 2x4's/plywood? Seems to me that would be easier and less permanent long term. I would also be concerned with what's under the space to support the tank?


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

the plywood idea is probably a very realistic and sensible approach ..but how about ibeams?? you could hollow out holes either side and slip them in. Then case the beams in plywood so it looks like a slab.. and then use the wall sides as the other sides of the tank... prehaps even have a glass bottom and front??


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## paradigmsk8er (Apr 13, 2009)

ibeams would get into some serious cost questions and include a lot of welding and more difficulty in getting everything squared up..wood/plywood allows for much more flexibility in terms of design and construction, and there are plenty of ways to seal it up to make it nearly impervious for a few decades.

I would just overbuild a 4x4 beam stand, use bolts and lots of support, and go from there. It'll be lighter, more affordable, and probably suti your needs a lot better.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

would two simple ibeams lengthwise and set in the wall require any welding? ...where i got my idea for ibeams was in looking at old historic buildings that were being modernised ... the new floor would simply be ibeams set in the existing wall. i looked at the cost of ibeams and although you couldn't buy them in short lengths the cost wasnt that crazy.

One thing i should mention is that the walls arent really that structural ..the floor above is just wood....and it would be great to use the surrounding walls as a heat sink for the tank since its quite hot here and chiller costs will go through the roof with a 500g ... the more contact the water has with the ground and surrounding walls the better.. unless somone knows more specifically about this sort of thing.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

For my design, step one would be to KNOW for sure how the existing walls are made. They may be strong enough--or not. Any plan to use them has to know. The water will be not only pressing down on the base but out on the walls. To much involved to guess at the wall construction.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

PfunMo said:


> For my design, step one would be to KNOW for sure how the existing walls are made. They may be strong enough--or not. Any plan to use them has to know. The water will be not only pressing down on the base but out on the walls. To much involved to guess at the wall construction.


for sure... if it was blockwork would that be a no go? obviously rc concrete would be ok.


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## oscars4me (Feb 22, 2009)

You do realize that a 500g tank will weigh 2 tons.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

oscars4me said:


> You do realize that a 500g tank will weigh 2 tons.


for sure.. thats why im asking rather than just going ahead .. wouldnt life be boring if you just did whatever the guy did before.. im just trying to see if i can push the envelope a little on this.


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## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

Concrete doesn't stick to concrete very well. I think you might have a hard time installing the floor of the tank and having it seal to the walls. If I was doing it, I'd look into having a beam across the front, maybe a center support going to the floor, and then building a tank on top of that; floor, sides, back, and front. I have experience in wood construction, but I haven't built a tank, yet...

This would be a sweet build! :thumb:


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Point to consider when concrete sticking to concrete is mentioned. Be aware that concrete does shrink as it cures. In houses when the perimeter is poured or built and then the concrete floor added, there is often as much as a 1/4 inch gap left. Just figure it into the planning.


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## oscars4me (Feb 22, 2009)

Hope you figure it out good luck. opcorn:


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## paradigmsk8er (Apr 13, 2009)

I misunderstood your explanation of the Ibeams, doesn't sound like welding would be required.

However the concrete issue now seems more pressing then the metal. Add to that the concrete and I beams will weigh a huge amount coupled with the tank/water/rock/substrate...If you are seriously considering this route, I would look at hiring a structural engineer or contractor to come in and verify all would be ok with the foundation.thats a lot of point stress.

I still stand by the fact that wood will be the best route for you, however I wish you the best of luck and hope to see pictures for sure!


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

im sort of warming to the idea of striping away the wall and floor finish and inserting a concrete slab supported by concrete columns..then concrete the exposed walls either side and have a simple glass front.










i like this look but i think that glass must be very thick.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

.. taken some ideas on board

Ok this is what i have planned for that space.. the idea is that there is no frame around the edge everything is flush. i was thinking to drill holes in the floor and the walls to take steel bars. The columns below would be hollow blocks around the bars..limestone finish to be added.. the horzontal slab would be tied to the existing structure with more bars. The existing surrounding wall would have the limestone finish removed where the slab and tank would be and some of the wall would be removed so that there is a good bond between the new slab and the existing. Around the back sides of the tank would be a layer of concrete that was waterproof as well as the horizontal slab. Not sure wether to leave it as plain concrete or paint it with epoxy??

the 150 would become the sump.

Im still not sure about the glass at the front ..i would really like one piece without a brace along the top but if there has to be more glass added then so be it.

what do you think..


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## paradigmsk8er (Apr 13, 2009)

looks incredible. I would seal all the exposed cement/concrete but thats me...they tend to absorb water quickly.

Very modern/industrial..I have a better picture of your concept now and really like it


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Have you considered what this project may require doing to the rest of your house? How does the concrete get into place? A preformed slab will require a forklift in the living room to place it. Mixing and pouring that much concrete at the site will pretty much destroy the room. Mixing outside and then wheelbarrows to move it in? Shoveling it from wheelbarrow to forms or a ramp to walk up? Impossible in my house. :-?


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

PfunMo said:


> Have you considered what this project may require doing to the rest of your house? How does the concrete get into place? A preformed slab will require a forklift in the living room to place it. Mixing and pouring that much concrete at the site will pretty much destroy the room. Mixing outside and then wheelbarrows to move it in? Shoveling it from wheelbarrow to forms or a ramp to walk up? Impossible in my house. :-?


its not that much.. nothing is precast.. just build the form out of wood and bring the cement through in buckets.. your talking about a table 11ft long and 8 inches deep. The two columns will be blockwork with bars and concrete inside.

Im more worried about the water leaks at the slab joint with the existing walls and keeping that 11ft piece of glass as just that rather than some picture frame,

you know ..i really like the idea of plywood but at the end of the day it all looks so chunky . I was really trying to keep the structure light and concrete seems like a good approach.

I must admit that surfing the net the examples of concrete aquariums is almost nil.. but why is that?

i mean a lot of great architecture is built out of it and i can see examples of concrete furniture and concrete sculptures but somehow when it comes to aquariums it all comes back to little house on the prarie cabinets.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I guess my question might be how much concrete work you have done. For that slab size you are approaching 25 cubic feet of concrete. That amount carried in buckets more than a few feet is a bunch more than I tangle with. Much of the furniture, statues, etc. are for outdoor use where the extra trouble and expense are offset by reduced maintenance and durable nature of concrete. There are just too many more workable items to make aquariums out of for most people to consider concrete. A 1/4 inch shrinkage on a building is acceptable. On an aquarium that shrinkage or the resulting crack are not acceptable. On the better built sidewalks, etc. they put expansion joints in to control the cracking.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

PfunMo said:


> I guess my question might be how much concrete work you have done. For that slab size you are approaching 25 cubic feet of concrete. That amount carried in buckets more than a few feet is a bunch more than I tangle with. Much of the furniture, statues, etc. are for outdoor use where the extra trouble and expense are offset by reduced maintenance and durable nature of concrete. There are just too many more workable items to make aquariums out of for most people to consider concrete. A 1/4 inch shrinkage on a building is acceptable. On an aquarium that shrinkage or the resulting crack are not acceptable. On the better built sidewalks, etc. they put expansion joints in to control the cracking.


well it wont be me acctually doing it .. i was going to find a guy who knows. I am also thinking about cracks but it seems there are meshes you can add to stop all that. If I could see something done in another materiel that was similar then I would consider that over concrete.

on the net i found all sorts of stuff made out of concrete..this wall unit is just one example.


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## TangSteve (Sep 20, 2009)

I would bet that it is plexi not glass in the picture. The zoo here has a trout pond built for the bears to fish in with a very similar look. They used 18" plexi (for the bears not the weight of the water)

11' is a long run so the glass/ plexi will be very think to keep it from bowing. You may want to consider having a few panels vs. one huge sheet.

Many reef keepers have their huge tanks built on site. May be something to look at as well.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Not saying it can't be done. Just pointing out some of the difficulties that concrete brings with it. I would look at a 2X6 or 2X8 bridge covered in epoxy or such. It will be expensive but when figured against free span concrete it may be cheaper and for sure more agreeable to work around.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

TangSteve said:


> I would bet that it is plexi not glass in the picture. The zoo here has a trout pond built for the bears to fish in with a very similar look. They used 18" plexi (for the bears not the weight of the water)
> 
> 11' is a long run so the glass/ plexi will be very think to keep it from bowing. You may want to consider having a few panels vs. one huge sheet.
> 
> Many reef keepers have their huge tanks built on site. May be something to look at as well.


i am going to have it all done on site ...the concrete would be mixed just outside.

the glass is a bit of an issue.. obviously one piece of glass would be ideal but i wouldnt be against smaller panels. What bothers me about most tanks is that the framing is really heavy looking which would kill it for me visually.

If i did get one piece of glass i would have thought you could silcone brace at the top like you might with a normal tank.. tying it to the back wall.


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

after mulling the issues of this approach i have come up with a revised plan to get the effect i am after.

proceed with constructing a reinforced concrete slab that rest on two reinforced concrete columns and is tied in with the surrounding walls, with rebars that insert themselves on all three sides.

include fiber in the mix to minimize cracking.

leave the existing wall finishes above the slab untouched.

insert silicone at the point where the slab meets the finishes.

introduce a thick 11ft by 2ft piece of plexiglass that will be held in place by more silicone.

paint the whole aquarium area ie the slab and the walls up to 2ft with epoxy.

what do you think?? could this be ok?

cost of the plexiglass concerns me but on paper it sounds great.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

While I can see the reason for not having a frame around the plex, I doubt silicone will hold the pressure. Have not tried it and so I don't know. Yet to be determined? The bracing front to back will be a definite help. Getting closer to me buying into the idea. =D>


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

PfunMo said:


> While I can see the reason for not having a frame around the plex, I doubt silicone will hold the pressure. Have not tried it and so I don't know. Yet to be determined? The bracing front to back will be a definite help. Getting closer to me buying into the idea. =D>


i totally agree with your thinking..at the point that i fill it with water and the glass is bowing ..then it would be needing to introducing more bracing.. however at this stage as long as the other three sides are playing the game then the problem of the glass is manageable .. not a total back to square one.

maybe an all round accomodating groove in the concrete for the glass would take up some of the slack.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Getting much better feel. If you have a groove (slot) cut into each side and the bottom, perhaps? Sounds like it would be much more solid. The concrete would be something I could trust to hold rather than the silicone alone. The groove in the new concrete would not be hard to form when pouring. Just a strip of wood the size of the glass placed in the wet concrete and removed after it sets completely. Might have to work the wood out a bit but not a real problem.


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## cichlidno0b (Feb 1, 2010)

this seems like one **** of a project


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

project canceled... after vast ammounts of research i couldnt come up with an elegant on budget soloution for the 11ft x 2ft front.

however a conventional 300g tank/stand could well happen.. :wink:


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I've got to run up a few blind alleys just to keep the juices flowing. Sorry the plan did not fit the budget. :roll:


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## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

thanks..me too


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