# 400 G DIY



## CHBGator

I've already planned on where the Aquarium will be placed in the basement and I have the dimensions drawn out including the Interior after framing, plywood and backer board, the interior dimensions will be 29 1/4x36"x87.5" with exterior dimensions of 96"x30x36. I plan on making a somewhat "mini" version of TFG's 800. I'll be able to get almost all the lumber from work. I'll also be ordering the glass from work which leaves me with the 1st big question Glass size. I figure I have 2 options:

1) A single Pane of glass 87"x25.75
2) 2 Pieces of glass 42.5x25.75 with a center beam.

The next question is can I use 1/2" tempered with both options or would it be best with option 1 being 3/4"? We have a lot of 1/4" tempered and some 3/8" tempered around the warehouse but I don't think either of those would be strong enough. SO opinions please


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## yelgnid

I'm still dreaming about my own diy tank so I can't speak from experience, but this site may help you with your decision http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/diytanksrefugiums/ss/diycustomtank.htm


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## CHBGator

HA! Good thing I didn't order anything yet.. like the glass..... The glass height should be 29" not 25.75"


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## lomax

1/2 tempered should be fine for the two pane plan, pushing it for the full lenght unless you have plenty of supports. i plan on using 2 8 foot 1/2 tempered glass thats 36 tall, for my next tank.


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## CHBGator

Supports where? Do you mean braces from front to back to stop any bowing?

Great news today tho, I had one of our salesmen get me a quote on the glass and for an 84"x29"x.5" piece of tempered glass it was just over $90 with 10% added on by my company. I did forget to tell him that I need the edges smoothed out but I'm guessing thats not going to be to expensive. Unfortunately this project cant even get started until august but that just gives me that much more time to gather the materials mainly lumber. I'm also considering going with the Sanitred and not the drylock. In which case would I even need to use the cement backer board if I used Sanitred?


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## imusuallyuseless

> 84"x29"x.5" piece of tempered glass it was just over $90 with 10% added on by my company.


That's an awesome price. $90 would only get me a 84x18x.25 piece of non-tempered


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## lomax

the mark up on glass is insane, if you can get it whole sale it so much cheaper.


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## CHBGator

So anyone have any ideas on weather or not Sanitred will work right on the plywood or is backer board still needed?


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## 98dak83cam

lomax said:


> 1/2 tempered should be fine for the two pane plan, pushing it for the full lenght unless you have plenty of supports. i plan on using 2 8 foot 1/2 tempered glass thats 36 tall, for my next tank.


Agreed. From what calculations I have and word of mouth here you can go up to about 48" deep. On the length build a very stiff front frame (2x6's) and brace along the top every 2' with something rigid. I used aluminum flat stock for mine, lagged every two feet.


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## imusuallyuseless

I'm not informed about sanitred, but why not look into west systems???


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## CHBGator

Unfortunately since the aquarium is going to be constructed inside and down in the basement there isn't going to be enough ventilation for epoxy.


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## BlackShark11k

ooh... Hey, i'm planning a 400 gallon tank too- only i won't start it until late summer nexxt year, and i may only make it 305 gallons if i need more space. It seems like your off to a pertty good start. Is it going to be an african cichlid? SA or CA? Asian? GoodLuck :thumb:


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## CHBGator

African, Malawi to be Specific. The more color I get into it the more SHE will go along with the whole project from start to finish.


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## BlackShark11k

Oooh! I love malawi. Well, don't we all... dimidiocompressiseps, fulleborni's, crabro, greshaki's


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## jem454

You might want to pm TFG. I dont think he was to happy with the sanitred, neither was wizzen over at monster fish keepers. If I was building mine all over again I would still use drylok, but I dont recomend it directly on wood.


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## CHBGator

Slowly but surely I'm getting final specs done. So I have another question. How does having 2x Bulkheads draining into a large container that both prefilters the water, and acts as a sump area for 2 pumps pumping water through 2x large FBF's then back into the tank one pump supplying water to the UGJ and the other supplying water to a spray bar sound? Using this setup http://www.duboisi.com/diy/BNfbf/bnfbf.htm saves lots of electricity and a lot of cost. I found 2x RIO 1700 pumps for $37 each that use 23W each. Compared to a $130+ single pump that draws around 300W.


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## CHBGator

Ok an update. Looks like the glass price was off, by how much I don't know yet but probably 2-3 times off the original $90. Seems that the salesman got a quote for two pieces of 1/4 inch Laminated (PVB) which TFG said I would prob have problems with and I also read that there is a very good chance that if water gets to the PVB laminate that it will start to seperate the 2 panes.


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## BlackShark11k

Sounds interesting. I wish glass was free...  Then we'd all have bigger tanks. Anyways your bulkhead idea will definately save you some money.


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## CHBGator

I think I may have found my prefilter/sump tank. 








Its from this water softener.








The Control board is bad in it and it came with the house (only because the previous homeowner was to lazy to remove it) unless someone knows how to take it apart then I can make 1 Giant canister filter :thumb:

Oh and here is part of the reason the whole project is on delay until probably the start of August








The Joys of Home ownership!


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## CHBGator

Updated price one the Glass. 84"x29"x.5 tempered is.... $135 !!  then to smooth out the edges is .14 a linear inch. which is about $32, then add in what they call and energy charge which is what it costs to temper the glass which was 7.5% and add in my companies 10% employee charge the total comes to just over $200 which isn't bad at all. I also think I found what I'll use for braces. We sell grab bars for restrooms which are 100% Stainless Steel even the welds and flanges for the bolts to mount is stainless. The salesman said they are rated to hold 900lbs. They also come in the perfect length which was 45" from end to end and 42" is where the 5/16 holes for mounting are drilled into the flanges. The price for those is just under $20 a piece. I'm still debating on weather or not to use the Drylock or Sanitred I need to keep cost down as much as possible.


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## jem454

If you look at wizzins 1000 gallon tank at monster fish keepers, he is having an extremely hard time with sanitred. I have never used sanitred, but drylok on hardipanel worked for me. Im not trying to course you in anyway, but I read alot and have mixed feelings about sanitred. It worked ok for TFG but his tank was already sealed with drylok. Everybody else seems to have problems sealing sanitred to glass. Hope this helps.


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## CHBGator

I've pretty much decided on the Drylock. The sanitred is just to expensive. I'm trying to keep cost down as much as possible on as many things as possible without getting to cheap. I was also thinking of using a FBF but the more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards a DIY sump/trickle filter so now I'm on the hunt for a good 3000-3500GPH pump.


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## CHBGator

Well I made the 1st purchase for the project today http://www.pondguys.net/product_info.php?products_id=31 With shipping and tax the total was $144.87 Next step is the Glass  I 'm thinking I might run just one line from this pump to the UGJ and the Spray bar and have the UGJ "T" off from the spray bar so in case of power failure the spray bar will act as a vacume break so the water doesn't siphon back towards the pump and drain the tank, this will also eliminate the need for check valves which decrease the flow rate.


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## CHBGator

GLASS IS HERE!  Again the Salesman made a mistake on the pricing but this was for the better. After the Employee 10% and Sales tax the total comes to $158.10, not to bad for 84"x29"x.5". Once the glass is in the Viewing area will be 79"x24". I'm also considering increasing the inside width from 36" to 48" making to total volume go from 409G to 545G. One question before I do that would be would the glass hold since its the width and not the height changing. I think I'd also have to switch the framing below the tank from 2x6's to 2x8's to support the extra weight.


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## redzebra24

I think if you made the tank 48" that would be SWEET. You could do a really nice big rock pile in the middle. The gallonage would go to up. I think go for it, but idk about the glass.


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## zemro535

79"x24" Why this size instead of longer92". Why 4' wide Vs. 3' What is the advantage of doing that? 
Your cost is rising when you go that extra 12". You probably won't see the fish with any decor put in it as much as 3' Also your plumbing is going where? In the back, side, underneath or up above?

I think you ought to look at the weight your dealing with of the 2. Spit out some calculations someone....


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## CHBGator

Plumbing is going in the back (to the filters), Drain in the bottom, UGJ on the bottom and spray bar on top. Think of this as a smaller version of TFG's 800G. He has a design that works and easy to work off of. The inside length I am planning as of now will be 87.5x30x36 unless I went with a 4' depth then it would be 87.5x30x48, which is a bigger footprint which means more fish. The weight difference would be 408 Gallons [US] = 3,405 Pounds or 545 Gallons [US] = 4,548 Pounds with 87.5x36 its a 21.9 sq. ft. footprint and 87.5x48 would be 29.2 sq. ft. A wider base also takes the total from 54.75 cubic feet to 73 cubic feet giving me the opportunity to try and add some open water Malawi Cichlids that will work with the Mbuna's.The tank is going in the basement which is half finished and half utility so I'm building the tank along a wall which is 11' 8" long so with an 8' tank is gives me room to put in a door that will go behind the tank where the filter and pumps will go. The wall is also on the side where the floor drain is so its a straight shot from the tank drain to the floor drain. The cost isn't going to go up that much more with with 12 extra inches. Another advantage of not going longer than 8' is that I'll only have to trim the length of the hardipanel and plywood so the only seams I will have will be where the bottom and sides meet and the fewer seams I have the less chance there is for leaks. The decor can easily be set up like in most other tanks with largest rock formation in the very back and smaller rock formations on the sides and a few towards the middle. Keep the questions coming tho helps me work out the design kinks and adds info for others to use later with their own projects.


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## lomax

i like wide tanks, you can make a very deep background that can have tons of caves. this allows fish that live in the rocks to defend there spot and still have safe room in front for open water fish.

many of my rock loving fish would dart out from the rocks a foot or so, if the tank was to thin fish that want to swim back and forth in the open water would keep qetting attacked. with four feet you can have a whole foot for the background and for all the overflows and pipes. have a foot or so in front of that for rock fish and still have 2 feet of safe open water in front.


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## CHBGator

Luckily for me My parents have a creek in the back yard which has a 30-40 foot cliff with all the nice big flat limestone rock I'll ever need for a tall rock wall in the back of the tank. This is killing me now to have to wait for the basement guys to get here and get done so I can start building. The date for them is July 18th to the 20th so it does give me time to collect the lumber, and work on the design more. I'm playing with a design right now so I can add a row of 2x6's supports under the length of the tank to give it some center support. This might be overkill but It makes me feel better.


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## BlackShark11k

Cool. What's going to go in it? Or was that already asked...


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## CHBGator

Malawi Cichlids. I'd like to go with a nice mix of Mbuna and Haps with a few Syno cats to clean up.  I've already put a 2nd filter on my 55G so I can use one to get the cycle going on the big tank once its ready.


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## BlackShark11k

Oh, now I remember.


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## CHBGator

Well I sat down for about 2 hrs playing with Google Sketchup and came up with this design for the aquarium base. The 2 Gaps are just over 20". Any idea if its to wide for a single or double layer of 3/4" plywood? Or should I shorten the vertical 2x6's and add 2x6 joyces like TFG's design? This base plan is for the 48" deep aquarium(545G), inside dimensions will be 87.5"x30x48


























So far everything is built with 2x6's. Of course after I made the design I figured out I made a mistake on the outside dimension so instead of 56 7/8 it should be 57 1/4.  but I'm not making a new one just to correct 1/4"


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## BlackShark11k

Looks good to me.


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## Charlutz

I'm not familiar with TFG's design, but your design is wasting the best attribute of the wood. The long rails on which the tank will rest should be oriented standing on their ends, not laying flat. (Is that what you meant by using joists?) For instance, if you are using 2x6's, the wood should sit on the "2" side and "stand up" 6 inches tall. That's where all the strength is. It won't bend down that way. By laying it flat, it bends very easily. Laying it flat probably also makes it necessary for you to have all of those vertical posts. You could eliminate a number of them if you reoriented your rails vertically. You could put a piece of plywood or other wood flat on top if you are looking for a certain appearance, but I assume the top will not be seen as it will be under the tank. All those vertical posts pretty much makes the space under the tank inaccessible. It would be nice to have that space for storage, a sump, etc.


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## BlackShark11k

In English? :lol:

I don't know much about stands due to the fact that all my large tanks are on the floor :lol:


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## CHBGator

The sump is going behind the tank, between it and the basement wall. Here is one frame Idea. 
















2x6 bottom half and 2x4 for the frame surrounding the 3/4" plywood and hardipanel tank, tomorrow I'll do a mock up of one with 2x6 joices.


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## CHBGator

This might be overkill but better safe than sorry. I'm going to try my hand at doing the plumbing using this same program.


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## BlackShark11k

Looks good to me- but I don't know anything when it comes to stands, especially for a 400 gallon tank.


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## CHBGator

I made it bigger, those 2 are 545 Gallon Designs.


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## BlackShark11k

Then get your butt of the **** computer and go build youself a freakin' 545(or 400) gallon tank!!!


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## CHBGator

lol I can start working on it at the end of July. The pump came in today and the glass is going to sit at work till the tank is ready for it.


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## BlackShark11k

Whatever :lol:


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## chefkeith

It seems like it would be better in the long run just to build the tank completely out of tempered glass if you can get it that cheap.

I'm not knocking plywood tanks, I just think you have a better option.


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## CHBGator

I actually feel safer making it out of plywood than I would a 545G out of all glass. Besides all but one side is going to be hidden plus its easier to add more drilled in plumbing later on if needed. If I were building a more "average" sized tank then I would go with all glass.


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## CHBGator

Build date is getting closer and I've been going over in my head how to build my Sump filter. After reading through TFG's 800DIY I saw where he had problems initially with his filter because there wasn't enough water in his 2x 45G brute tubs so he had to add a 3rd http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... &start=690. So I thought I'd try and design a system that would hold enough water so I wouldn't run into the problem. He said his filter was running good but at $45-$55 each for 3x 45 Gallon cans I thought it would be much cheaper to just use the same plywood/hardipanel construction for the sump area. The total volume of this design is 134G and where I'm hoping to keep the water level the volume of water will be about 90G, or I could take the width from 18" to 24" and increase the overall volume to 179G and water level volume at 120G. Here is my initial design for the sump. Please pick it apart where it needs it!










Obviously water will enter from above the sump and into the mech filter area where it will enter the bio media area then pass through some sort of filter pad between 2x pieces of egg crate where the 3500 GPH pump (Beckett W3500) will return the water to the tank via a spray bar and UGJ.


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## CHBGator

Basement is DONE! I have the spot marked out and I'm going to be bringing the wood from work to the house. I've also changed the plans again but for the better  . The inside dimensions will be 96Lx48Wx30H. taking the total gallons to 597.6 I also collected enough rock that I can make the rock wall along the back and sides of the tank, with a few low profile rocks to place on top of the UGJ's. here is a pic I made of what I want to do with the rock. 








with this design I'll still have 80"x25" of viewing area into the tank. I want to try and hide the intakes to the sump as much as possible without blocking the ability of waste to get sucked out of the tank. I feel like a 5 yr old again waiting for Santa who's still a week or two away.


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## CHBGator

Ready to start. This day has taken forever to get here! So first thing I had to do was take up the old tile and measure out from the walls to have the tank centered. The sump filter is going to be on the right side of the tank and access will be on the utility side to give the tank wall a clean look. I plan on having the UGJ's direct the waste towards the right because I want to hide the intakes in the right front corner of the tank. This will also reduce the amount of plumbing I will have to do because the pipes will drop right from the top of the tank straight down into the sump. Next thing I did was check to see how much of a grade I had to deal with. In this area I was real lucky because the slope is so gradual that I might not have to make any height adjustments to compensate for it. I can also place the tank drain in the lowest corner to get a complete drain on the tank when needed. I'm also thinking about breaking out one of the small glass blocks and putting in a little vent with a fan hooked up to a humidistat to keep the humidity down in the fish room. For heating the tank I'm going to get two 800W titanium heaters. 








My little helper! 









darn near flat. And it looks like my level wasn't.. well , level lol 

















Carpet and tile gone, lines are snapped and I'm dead tired. That tile must have been down for 50 years some pieces came right up and others came up in little chips. 








Tomorrow I'll start on the base after I put in the new utility sink and plumb it then fix the hole in our bedroom ceiling I accidentally made when I stepped through the floor in the attic measuring for new windows. :x all right after I get off work


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## BlackShark11k

:lol:

Cool. I expect it will look wuite amazing when it's finished.


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## CHBGator

Slow progress today. I laid down the base 2x6's drilled a hole in each end of the long boards to put in tapcons measuring to make sure everything was square then I started drilling to put in 2 more tapcons on each long board and 2 in each short but after the 5th hole the masonry bit went dull  Mind you these are the same bits we give the customers when they buy a box of 50. So I had to run to the store and get a new bit for the rest of the holes. I got the corner studs cut and decided to stop for the night. Kids are at Grandma's tonight 



















I'll try and get more done tomorrow, I need a few more 2x6 then 2x8's for the joists.


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## fishwolfe

i wish i had a basement :roll:
what are tapcons?


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## CHBGator

Big cement screws


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## blackautoload

Man, why no pressure treated boards? It is a must when you have wood against concrete.
Looks like a time consuming project!!
Best of luck!


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## CHBGator

They'll be fine. I expect to get bored with this tank in 5-10 years, get the "I need a bigger tank" itch and double or triple its size.


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## CHBGator

Got a little more done last night. I miscalculated a bit and ended up short on wood. I have to go buy a 2x6x8 for a 45" piece now but oh well its only $3.65.

















On the right side you can see the 2x6 piece I'm missing. 
























So far so good. I'm only 1/16th off what I planned but I figure its acceptable. 









One thing I do wish I had besides more money is a Miter saw! Maybe TFG can bring his over. Tomorrow after work I'll stop by the store and grab the last 2x6 and a few more 2x8's and start on the joists.


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## CHBGator

double post :roll:


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## thecookiemonster

How did you attach the vertical bits of wood that make the frame look like a cot??


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## CHBGator

I put up the corner pieces first then bridged them with the 2x6's then I filled in every 12" OC with the vertical pieces. You can see on the front and back I have 7 vertical pieces so I measured in from each end 36" marking every 12"and put up a vertical piece then the center I just cut the measurement in half so I ended up with a beam thats dead center. I used 3" screws and screwed them in from the top and on the bottom I screwed them in from the side at an angle to get into the piece below. Then I put my top layer of 2x6 and screwed that onto the one below. I was lucky because my floor is almost flat in that corner of the basement otherwise I probably would have used a line level to get the frame level from one end to the other and front to back.


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## CHBGator

Started the Joists 2x8's aren't cheap about $9 for a 10' so I'll have to wait till next week to get the last 5, then I can start on the tank frame itself. I've got a bunch of 14' 2x4's waiting at work and some in my garage.


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## narhay

Good choice on the extra foot of width. Looks nice.


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## CHBGator

Thanks. I cant wait to get up to the point where I'm putting the Fish in!


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## CHBGator

Stand portion of the tank is done. 








Next is the 2x4 framing, Plywood and Hardipanel.


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## fishwolfe

looking good :thumb:


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## BlackShark11k

:thumb:


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## CHBGator

Getting the rest of the 2x4's to finish the framing tomorrow.(thurs) But I've been bored out of my mind just looking at what I've gotten done already so I decided to fire up the sketchup program and see what my basement will look like when I'm done.


































I cant believe that program is free, Google kicks a$$ :thumb:


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## BlackShark11k

Man, I wish i was as good at sketchup as you, heh, I can barely make a square let alone design a basement or an aquarium :lol:


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## CHBGator

:lol: I wont tell you how long it took me to figure that program out. Or how many Basements I made before that one!


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## CHBGator

Got more done today headed back to Lowes tomorrow for the last of the 2x4's and more screws.









Here is the 55G next to it.


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## Turtlemaxxx

you forgot the 55 in the sketchup! how could you do such a thing

Looking good :thumb:


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## CHBGator

woops! Actually the 55 is going to get taken out of that wall and put in the back room for a quarantine/hospital tank. I also ran out of screws again...  Good thing I don't do this for a living or else I'd be one starving carpenter! I'm also starting to think about and look at epoxy for the inside of the tank again, the cost of 5 sheets of Hardipanel and 2 part epoxy isn't very far off. I'm looking into the future and I don't like the thought of having to take everything out of the tank in 5 years to repaint it with Drylock.


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## BlackShark11k

Now about the stocking(cause that's my favorite part of buildin' a tank, stockin' it)- what exactly are you gunnu put in there? Just a bunch of lil' guys or are you gunnu put some bigger ones like livingstoni(which I think would be awesome). Any fish that aren't cichlids, like cats/plecos?

Looks awesome by the way. Can't wait to see it finsished.


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## CHBGator

Stock list I have planned is:

Mbuna:
Metriaclima callainos
Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" 
Melanochromis auratus
Metriaclima estherae
Labidochromis caeruleus
Iodotropheus sprengerae 
Cynotilapia afra (Cobue)

Peacock:
Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Otter Pt.)

Haps:
Fossorochromis rostratus
Cyrtocara moorii

Cats:
Synodontis nyassae


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## chefkeith

Very nice looking build so far. These big tanks are getting really popular.


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## CHBGator

Thanks chefkeith. Frames finished 










Now I have some time to decide on Epoxy or Drylock. Opinions?


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## tcomfort

CHBGator said:


> Now I have some time to decide on Epoxy or Drylock. Opinions?


How many Drylok-on-plywood tanks do we have out there? It would be interesting to count up the data points and longevity on those. I don't think I've heard of an outrught failure from that combo yet. I don't think it's time-tested yet, either.

The Drylok is much cheaper than the epoxy route. Unless the Drylok fails.  But at this point, without any catastrophic failure stories, I would be tempted to try it. Plus, I would love another Drylok data point before I make my 8x2x2. :lol:

If money isn't a _severely_ restricting consideration, go with epoxy. It's tried and true.


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## CHBGator

So far from my research I started looking heavily into these 4 products:

Pond Armor is $90 with shipping but it is sold in 1 1/2 qt kits but it only covers 60 sq ft. @ 10 mil thickness(recommended). I have about 90 sq ft. so 2 kits is about $180 plus fiberglass tape or mat over $200.

Sweetwater is $58 and covers 250 sq. ft. @4 mils but it requires Hazmat shipping so I need to call to see what shipping would be but I'm guessing it will be close to what the the product itself costs plus Fiberglass tape.

West systems has a local retailer not sure of their price but online at Westsystems its $91 for .98 G of resin, $35 for 1 qt hardener, $11.50 for measuring pumps 1 G covers 350-405 sq ft depending on how porous the surface is, and add in fiberglass mat or tape for the corners and your looking at over $150.

 Drylock $23 a gallon but its meant to go over concrete or cement block so the Hardipanel (cement based board) is $27 a sheet and 4 sheets to do the tank and that too is about $140.

I even went as far as to look at the 2 part epoxy sold at Lowes but that was a definite no go since it releases VOC even after its Cured. As of now its between Drylock and Sweetwater. Sweetwater is in the lead because it is made just for this purpose but keep in mind that I am doing this inside so I'm not sure how hazardous the fumes released from it will be. I'm also not going to buy the plywood yet since it is dependent on which product I will use. If I use Drylock I'll use .5" ply with hardipanel .275" total being .75" or Sweetwater then I'll just use .75" plywood. The frame dimensions are made to keep 96x48x30 inside dimensions based on using .75" of plywood/plywood & hardipanel. Anyone who has experience using Sweetwater I'd love to hear from you on how you rate the product.


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## tcomfort

Ah, so Drylok directly on plywood is not even in consideration. I hope some people with that setup would chime in here. If it turns out to be reliable, then we have a low-cost solution.

The Sweetwater looks good too. I bet you could set up a fan system to vent the ambient air while it cures, and wear a respirator.


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## CHBGator

I already plan on installing a ventilation system to control humidity so maybe I'll put that in first and put up plastic to keep the fumes confined to that area.


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## CHBGator

Just got off the phone with Aquatic Eco-Systems and Shipping on 1G of the Sweetwater epoxy paint to Ohio is about $30-$35 which is about half of what I thought it would be. Under $100 is my kind of deal :thumb:


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## iceblue

I bought a gallon of Sweetwater from Aquatic ecosystems a few years ago but had let it go to far past its expiration date. When I finally got around to coating my diy plywood 350g and 150g plywood sump I went ahead and ordered another 2 gallons. I have 7 coats in the tank and 6 in the sump and am very pleased with the results. The sump holds the water just fine but as of yet I have not filled the aquarium. I used the expired paint to coat the outside rim tops of the tanks and the top and inside bottom of my stand. It hardened nicely and I'm not sure I couldn't have used it for the inside of the tank but... better safe than sorry. I am going to wait a few years though before I call it a complete success.


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## CHBGator

Cool Thanks for the information. what color did you get? I forgot to ask them today before it was to late to call back to see if they had color samples. I'm interested to see what the light blue and light green look like.


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## iceblue

The first gallon I bought was the light blue. It's kind of a sky blue. The other two gallons were light gray (a little lighter than charcoal) and dark blue. The dark blue is very deep and dark and will hurt your eyes if you stare at it to long. I was originally going to make it my final coat but decided on the gray instead.

I alternated the coats between the gray and blue to make sure I was getting even coverage. This stuff will dry pretty fast in high temperatures and trying to recoat in the same color can be challenging.


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## CHBGator

How many coats did you get out of a can? I imagine the 1st coat on the plywood used a lot. I'm hoping I only need one. Also did you use fiberglass mat or tape for the corners for added strength? I'm hoping I can get it ordered this week or next. I'd like to have this thing cycled BEFORE Christmas.


----------



## iceblue

Actually the ply didn't really suck up that much with the first coat and that was with the unfinished tank sitting in my garage for over 2 years in the desert. I had approximently 90sq ft to cover and used a 1/4" knap by 6" roller to apply it and some 2" disposable brushes for the inside corners. All told the 2 gallons gave me 6 1/2 coats which is a little bit thinner than 4 mils each coat. I tried a 3/8" knap roller but it had a tendancy to run. I would say it went on at about 3 1/2 mills so I figure I have about a 24 mil thickness in the tank after 7 coats.

I didn't use anything to cover the inside corners except the epoxy. I've read both pros and cons about fiberglassing the inside corners and decided to skip it.

Below is some information I had p.m.ed to another member. Rather than write everything out again I just copied.

Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:55 am 
Subject: Re: Sweetwater 
Years ago, I did some spraying with epoxy using an airless sprayer in the oil fields. I think it's the best way to apply it for even coats but the cost of an airless (not to mention the time, effort and amount of solvent needed to clean out the lines) puts it out of most of our budgets.

To measure it go to either Lows or Home depot and pick up some clear buckets that have graduated measurement marks printed onto the sides. They sell them in various sizes with the lids sold seperately. I would also go to Walmart and pick up a cheap vinyl spatula to scrape the inside of the buckets.

I bought the 4 quart size for the paint itself and the 1 quart size for the hardener. The lids seal tight and you don't have to worry about anything drying out while waiting between coats.

Mix them carefully and use the spatula to scrape the inside of the "paint" bucket to make sure the paint has come down to the proper mark depending on how much paint you'll be using each coat.

I used 1/4" nap x 6" long roller to apply the paint to the flat surfaces and a cheap throw away brush to get the inside corners. You can place these in a plastic baggie and put them in your freezer between coats to keep them from hardening up. Worked pretty well for me anyhow. Have extras handy just in case.

Make sure you apply it in a well ventilated area. The smells really not that bad and dissapates over night. I waited 3 hrs after each coat then mixed my next batch and waited another 1 hour before appling it. 4 hours total between each coat. Use a standard wood paint mixer or a stick to mix the two parts together and every 15 or twenty minutes give it a stir while waitng for it to react. When using the roller make sure it's wet all the time and doesn't pull paint off that you have already just put on. The other guy was right, thats what caused my micro bubbles.

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:59 am 
Subject: Re: Sweetwater 
What I did was take the total square footage to be painted of both my tank and sump and divided that into the total square footage of what 2 gallons would cover. Just as an example, lets say your total square footage for both your tanks equals 50 sq. ft. 1 gallon of Sweetwater will cover 250 sq. ft. 250 divided by 50 equals 5 coats. If you use the measuring buckets I recomended divide the total ounces of the paint (the larger portion) and the total ounces of hardener (the smaller portion) by 5. This will give you your mixing proportions to do one coat. Do NOT mix it all at once. It sets up a chemical reaction that starts hardening the paint and you won't have enough time to get all the coats on. They store just fine (UNMIXED) in the buckets I recomended as long as you keep lids on them.

If you have a little left over use it to seal top edges or other places that may come into contact with water during maintainance and such. If you have way to much extra adjust the amount you mix down some, keeping in mind a 3 to 1 mixing ratio.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Turtlemaxxx

your making me want to get a diy tank up and started now. your a bad person  do we have pics of how this looks? keep up the good work


----------



## imusuallyuseless

tcomfort said:


> Ah, so Drylok directly on plywood is not even in consideration. I hope some people with that setup would chime in here. If it turns out to be reliable, then we have a low-cost solution.


That's what I have on my 180G, and I really haven't had any problems w/it. Even still, I don't think enough long term testing has been done to determine if it's reliable or not.

Anyway, I wish you luck w/your project CHBGator. I too settled on sweetwater(light blue for me) for my next DIY. I've had it for a few months now, but still haven't found the time to use it. The tanks are already built, but I guess i've been to busy/chicken to seal 'em up yet  :lol:

Any idea when you'd expect to start sealing up yours?


----------



## CHBGator

Thanks for the great info iceblue it helps a lot! As for when I'm sealing the tank the budget is tight atm I need to do a few things to my house before winter and I still need to get my plywood then I can put the epoxy on. 3-4 weeks is what I'm hoping for. believe me I'm excited and a bit chicken myself to try my hand at epoxy for the first time ever on such a big project. I come home every day feed my fish and stare at what I have done so far for about 30 min wondering when my lotto numbers are goign to hit.


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## Turtlemaxxx

how can blue hurt your eyes??


----------



## iceblue

Turtlemaxxx said:


> how can blue hurt your eyes??


 :lol: Believe me, the dark blue from Sweetwater is a very intense deep dark blue. When I was applying it I would have to look away ocassionaly because I was going cross eyed....Of course that could just be me.


----------



## CHBGator

1 more piece of plywood to go. I'll get it tomorrow. I also changed the stock plans quite a bit. I'll still have a Cichlid in the tank but it will be a few Oscars, the rest will be FW Stingrays most likely tea-cup or Moroto, then either Lima Shovelnose Cats or a Ripsaw cat, the Pleco out of my 55 and an Arowana or two.










I also got the Plywood for free for all but the bottom piece that I'm getting at Lowes tomorrow


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## Ric Foster

Looking good. :thumb:


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## CHBGator

Almost there. Received My Epoxy paint and 2" Bulkheads from AES yesterday. I then went to Home Depot and bought plastic sheeting to seal off the side of the basement where the tank is and some plastic containers to measure out the Epoxy and activator and Acetone to clean up the Bondo off the tools. The Bondo is to seal the screw heads and seams up so the Epoxy has a nice surface to hold onto. I got 2 Colors of Epoxy, Black and Dark Green. I'll alternate colors with each coat to make sure I'm not missing any spots. I'm still undecided as to which color will be the final layer although it might not matter since I plan on a DIY concrete background that will cover 3 sides of the tank. I'll be sealing off the basement this weekend but unfortunately I have to wait to do any painting until I get a Respirator on Wed so Next weekend is the planned painting weekend. :thumb:


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## iceblue

:lol: If I didn't know better I would say I had wrote the last post and pasted the picture. Looks exactly like my tank before I started painting. Same bulkheads, same bondo, same plastic sheeting and 2 part epoxy.

I presently am doing a concrete background on all 3 sides of my plywood 350g also, but without the styro foam. I'm using a mixture of type II cement, perlite and a little sand to build the structures and covering that with a mixture of cement and sand to make a mortar and to smooth it all out.

Looking good Chb. :thumb: Give us a shot of your progress as you paint.


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## CHBGator

Are you building your cement background on the epoxied surface or are you building it on something else then putting it in the tank? I've been toying with the idea of using waterfall foam applied to the tank wall sculpting it, then putting cement over top of it.


----------



## iceblue

I'm building the structures inside the tank. Do NOT allow the cement to dry on the epoxy. It's a real pita to scrub off.

I lined the entire bottom and about 6 "up the sides with a thick plastic used for covering dining tables. This is temporary to keep cement laden water from pooling on the epoxy. I'll be removing it when the structures are finished. I then lined this with thin pieces of foam wrapping used to protect wood products during shipping. I taped them in place up the sides and across the bottom with generous overlaps where they meet. This also has the added benifet of sticking to the concrete and becoming a part of the background pieces. It makes a nice buffer to keep from scratching the epoxy when I have to remove or put back in place the concrete structures.

If your going to use the foam to make your background it might be a better idea to build them outside the tank on a flat surface. Suran wrap placed down first will help to keep it from sticking to whatever surface your working off of. Give yourself some leeway and undersize them a bit so you can easily place them inside the tank. Hth.


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## tunerX

Before you do the corners with epoxy, you should put a fillet of bondo in them so you don't have the sharp 90s. Those will be probably be the weakest parts when you fill it with water. Or you could epoxy then put a fillet of silicone in the corners.

Once you get the epoxy on post some pictures of the black and green coats. I am using west system for mine and the pigments that west system has tested aren't the best of colors. I going to put on 2 coats of sweetwater but don't know what color I am going to use.


----------



## mitch71h

tunerX said:


> Before you do the corners with epoxy, you should put a fillet of bondo in them so you don't have the sharp 90s.


 :?:



CHBGator said:


> The Bondo is to seal the screw heads and seams up so the Epoxy has a nice surface to hold onto.


----------



## tunerX

mitch71h said:


> tunerX said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before you do the corners with epoxy, you should put a fillet of bondo in them so you don't have the sharp 90s.
> 
> 
> 
> :?:
> 
> 
> 
> CHBGator said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Bondo is to seal the screw heads and seams up so the Epoxy has a nice surface to hold onto.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

:?:

If he makes a fillet that is too small the chance of cracking is still pretty high.


----------



## CHBGator

Not sure what you mean exactly with putting a fillet in the corners. I plan on using something rounded so its not a 90 in the seams if thats what you mean. I peeked in the cans and the black is VERY *black* and the green ... WOW is it *GREEN*!!


----------



## tunerX

Yeah, thats what a fillet is. I don't know how malleable the autobody bondo is but a plastic spoon should give a nice fillet.

I have some blue and black pigment for the west system but the blue is way too bright. kinda painful to look at. I bought some of the black sweetwater and was looking at maybe getting the light blue or light green if the black doesn't make me happy.


----------



## iceblue

tunerX said:


> I have some blue and black pigment for the west system but the blue is way too bright. kinda painful to look at.


Glad to know it's just not me. :lol:


----------



## CHBGator

tunerX said:


> Yeah, thats what a fillet is. I don't know how malleable the autobody bondo is but a plastic spoon should give a nice fillet.


Its a bit thinner than peanut butter when 1st mixed. unfortunatly its sets rather fast 5-10 min. Maybe I'm using a bit to much hardener but I only mix enough of what I can work with in that time frame so its working out ok.


----------



## CHBGator

Bondo work is almost done, I sanded 90% of the bondo work but I couldn't get into the corners very well so I sanded what I could then put a new smoother bead of bondo down so there weren't so many crevasses. Now I'm just waiting for those areas to cure then I'll feather in the new spots, vacuum the majority of the dust, wait for the air to clear and get a damp sponge and try and pick up the really fine dust to make sure the resin has a nice surface to adhere to. Then while everything is drying I'll start mixing my 1st batch of resin and hardener. So if anyone has any last min tips or suggestions they have about 2 hrs. 

Basement with the plastic up to keep the fumes confined to that area. 









A little closer look at the whole tank.









An even closer look. 2 of the 4 2" bulkhead drains cut in. I'll resin the inside of the holes and the backside


----------



## iceblue

Start at the top and work your way down on each section.


----------



## CHBGator

:thumb: Thanks iceblue. I have about 85 sq feet to paint I was thinking of mixing 1/3 of the can for each application sound about right? . I also for got to mention the respirator I bought from Sherwin Williams for $25.


----------



## CHBGator

1st coat is on  I've got to say thats some potent stuff! it wasnt bad when I mixed it but after it was rolled on wow! good thing I have that respirator.










Close up f the inside 1st coat.









Bulkhead cutouts outside of tank.









I did the top also I'll have a removable top with a rubber gasket between the lid and tank frame with a hinged door for feeding.


----------



## iceblue

Looking good CHB. :thumb: I didn't use the respirater but had 3 large fans blowing around in a wide open garage. Once I got a coat on I was out of there. The only buzz I got was from the beer that helped me get the painting done. 

Was the 1/3 of a gallon enough or to much?


----------



## CHBGator

Thanks. 1/3 was just right. I waited 60 min for the 2nd batch to set after I mixed it and I think it was a tad to long, it was getting a little to hard to work with towards the end so about 30-45 min is more than enough time to wait till you start working with it. Another minor problem is the temperature. Its about 40 at night 50+ daytime and I have a little electric heater going that keeps the basement at about 65-70 degrees with the basement door open which is lower than the 75 it recommends to cure (4 hrs) so I'll give the next coat about 6-7 hrs. I'll get a coat on at about 1 pm (3rd) then let it cure till 8 pm and get another coat on(4th). That way I can get a coat on at 6-7 pm tomorrow(5th) after work and still be inside the 24hr window I have to re-coat. The label says you can not re-coat between 24 and 72 hrs and if you wait after the 72 you need to lightly sand first so I want to stay away from that. After the 5th I might stop and save the rest for the Cover.


----------



## tunerX

With the west system, it says that if you can dent the layer with your fingernail then it will still chemically link with a new layer. Are there any special identifiers like the fingernail check that tell you whether your re-coat needs a sanding?

I bought a pump system with the west system, so I can make a small batch and apply it. I wasted about 20 dollars worth of epoxy by mixing too big a batch that exothermed and hardened before I was finished applying it.

Does the sweetwater dry hard like plastic or is it more rubbery? The sweetwater says that you have to wait 30 minutes before applying, does it get warm from the chemical reaction? Is there any chance that it will exotherm and turn into a solid block?


----------



## iceblue

The Sweetwater dries hard like plastic. When I did my tank and sump I was mixing only a 1/4 gallon at a time and the outside tempurature was between 80 and 95 degrees even at night. I applied it quickly and didn't have any problem with it setting before I was done. After the third coat I did allow it to go 72 hours before sanding and applying the rest of the coats.

The fingernail test is interesting. I was tempted a few times to touch what I had allready applied but resisted. I wanted good clean, even coats and was paranoid of anything messing that up.

CHB, Every 10 or 15 minutes I would give the paint a stir while it was setting up for application. I noticed a "skin" would form (very slight) and I gently worked that back into the mix. Even while painting I would keep it well stirred. I don't know if this would help keeping it from setting up before your done applying but I didn't have any problems with it setting up before I was done painting.


----------



## CHBGator

I never noticed any heat from the reaction but yes it cures its like a hard plastic. One huge problem I just noticed is that the activator part B looks like I'm not going to have enough! I just mixed the 2nd 1/3 of the can and when I poured part B into my measuring cup there is no way I'll have another 10 oz for the last 1/3 of resin. part A is 96 fl oz so I used 32 oz a batch. Part B is 32 oz so I've been measuring out 10 fl oz and I'm going to be short! I'll call AES tomorrow and see if there is a known issue. :-?


----------



## iceblue

Ouch, not good news.

When I mixed mine I didn't use the bucket I was pouring into for measurement. After pouring the paint I would scrape the sides of the measure bucket I was pouring out of with a rubber spatula and check the incriments on the side to make sure I poured enough. I did the same thing with the hardener. I was surprised buy how much will stick to the sides of the bucket after pouring. You might try scraping the sides of the hardener container to see if maybe you really do still have enough to complete the project.


----------



## iceblue




----------



## CHBGator

I have been using a paint stick to scrape my measuring container. I have been putting the paint into a roller pan and rolling the paint onto the tank. This 3rd coat went on real nice, I also looked into the hardener can and I might have been a bit paranoid on running low. It is real thick like honey so I'll make sure I do a real good job scraping the hardener can. If worst comes to worst I'll measure out the last of the hardener into my measuring can then adjust the resin to keep the 3:1 ratio. But as I said I was being a bit paranoid this is my first ever 2 part epoxy experience.


----------



## CHBGator

Tuesday I'll be ready to wash the epoxy down with non-sudsing ammonia as suggested by the Sweetwater directions then I can put in the glass and let the silicone cure for another 7 days. While its curing I'll plumb in the trickle/sump filter, and start on the lid.










Not sure now if I'll make a background. I think the black will really show the colors in the fish.


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## fishwolfe

looking good :thumb: i like the black backs on tanks too


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## CHBGator

Rinsed the tank down with the ammonia and rinsed it now I'm started the Plumbing Dry fit only atm. A buddy is suppose to come over Saturday after the game and help me put the glass in so by next weekend I can do a test fill.




























Here is My next project to be finished before next weekend. It's an old 45 gallon Water softening salt bin thats going to be my filter. Its going to work as more of a wet/dry trickle than a 
submerged bio-media canister filter.


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## cichlid-fan

CHB the project looks great man, that sweetwater paint work really good. That's what I use on my 300. The only thing I did different was laid fiberglass mat inside mine to make it much stronger. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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## iceblue

Hows the glass installation coming? I'm still a few months away from installing mine amd seeing how it's almost the size of yours any tips would be greatly appreciated.


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## CHBGator

GE silicone I holds real well to the Sweetwater! I'll have some pics tonight or tomorrow.


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## iceblue

Looking forward. :thumb:


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## gatohoser

Looking awesome! I'm jealous.


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## CHBGator

Nothing Fancy here with these pics. Just cleaning the glass with acetone then putting the thick bead of silicone on. I used 4 tubes I need a razor now to finish cleaning a few errant spots of silicone from the glass.


----------



## spotmonster

Let me know if you ever give a tour :thumb: I'd love to build a tank like this! Next house I buy needs to have a large basement for a few large tanks, and a home theater, all DIY.


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## Howler33

Nice work. Looks great so far.


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## mithesaint

spotmonster said:


> Let me know if you ever give a tour :thumb:


x2 :lol: My inlaws live in Parma, and I'll be there this coming weekend...gonna be around? 8) I'll bring brews and we can talk about how West Virginia should NOT be ahead of the Bucks in the BCS :lol:

Seriously though, if you're around, and not busy, I'd love to come take a look. I've got a big piece of glass waiting on my DIY, and would love to see yours in person. Drop me a PM.


----------



## CHBGator

Sorry I haven't gotten back to anyone but past few days due to the holidays and getting the plumbing done. But today is the start of the test fill! the tank is about 2/3 full and I'm waiting till later tonight to fill the rest of the way. All part of the test fill, but so far so good no wet spots! :thumb: 2nd part of the test will be the plumbing. 
Filter Plumbing




































Drain 









Start of the Filling. 









An hour into the fill. 









Forgot to take a pic of the tank 2/3 full but use your imagination


----------



## Rivermud

Heh, yeah I was going to complain about not getting new posts from you since you have a 4 day weekend. j/k Been reading this thread in silence for awhile now. Ahh dreams of a house rather than an apartment.


----------



## tunerX

Looking good.

Nice thinking with the drain to your basement sump. Mine is far away but I am still thinking about doing it.

Are you gonna do a continuous change system. I am thinking about doing a 1GPH continuous drain to my basement sump. I changed my sump pump out and installed a watchdog back up sump pump with two marine batteries connected to a float charger. It works pretty good, and can give me about 5 days worth of regular duty without power. This is just in case my Generac house generator runs out of LP during a major power outage.

I am also looking at making a coil denitrator with about 750-1000' feet of 1/4" coils. I am gonna run a smaller one to see what kind of FW efficiency I can get on a smaller tank first with a single 75' 1/4" coil. I just want to reduce my maintenance to vacuuming and wiping.

Any thoughts on what you are going to do for lighting?


----------



## CHBGator

Yeah I've always dreamed about having a huge tank like 150 gallons but when I saw TFG's tank and we finally bought a house I had to do it! I do have to give HUGE props to TFG, this tank as I said before is based almost 100% on his design. I used different paint and filter but the tank frame and plumbing is 100% his. The only credit I can take for those is actually doing it myself. I also had originally wanted to put malawi's in the tank but after looking around at some other forums I'm going with a SA tank. I keep flip flopping on stock but the one fish I'm 100% on are 2-3 Black Arowanas. more than likely 2 due to the price. Others I have in mind are Moroto Rays, Red hook Silver Dollars, Ripsaw Cat (Oxydoras Niger), Uaru's, BGK. Not sure on compatibility on all those but I have some time now while the tank is finished leak testing and then cycling.


----------



## CHBGator

Probably not yet on an auto water changer or a denitrator. For lighting I'm looking at a few ideas. one is to just get some shop lights and hunt for some FW aquarium bulbs (T5). The other is to get some retro fit kits and build them into the hood. Speaking of which It will probably just be a simple 2x6 and plywood painted with Drylock with hinged lids and two light cutouts for 36" lights one on either side running lengthwise. I'm leaning more to the retro kits so I can put some floating plants in the tank to help suck up the nitrates. Possibilities are Amazon frogbit or Floating water lettuce. and also some Anibias attached to the wood I'll eventually have in the tank.


----------



## Staszek

Wow, very cool. Congrats on all the work you did. :thumb:


----------



## bell

my only question is why you went to the sump for the drain, it's my understanding that if you dump in there the pump which empties the sump will be your restriction as to it how fast it can empty, the size of the drain from the tank could overfill it quickly.


----------



## CHBGator

bell said:


> my only question is why you went to the sump for the drain, it's my understanding that if you dump in there the pump which empties the sump will be your restriction as to it how fast it can empty, the size of the drain from the tank could overfill it quickly.


I ran out of pipe  I can adjust the drain flow with the ball valve so I don't max out the sump. I did test the drain and there weren't any problems with it overflowing, the sump pump inside the sump basin is new and works fast, as soon as I turn the drain valve off it runs for 2-3 sec and shuts off.

Now for an update on the tank. NO LEAKS!  but it hasn't been 24 hrs. The initial fill was the nerve racking one. Every creak in the house, every time the washing machine drained my heart stopped for a moment. Actually there is an extremely slow leak in one of the drain pipes but thats a 1 min fix. Also I have the same prob as TFG did with the filter not enough water in reserve so I'm going to start on my original plan today of making a 100G Plywood/Drylock box.

One thing I would do differently is to make sure I have all the PVC debris from cutting the pipes out of the pipe! When I first turned on the pump it looked like one of those shake up Christmas ball's in the tank.


----------



## iceblue

CHBGator said:


> For lighting I'm looking at a few ideas.


I bought 2 of these at the home depot for my 350g. Model # 9265, or 9266 and 9267. http://www.lightsofamerica.com/sec.htm Thier a little more than halfway down the page.

They only use use 65 watts of power but give the equivelent of 500 watts each. With a color temp of 6500k and 6825 lumens it's a great alternative for the money.

By the way, congratulations on a successful fill. :thumb:


----------



## tunerX

What kind of setup are you going to do with the sump box.

I am making two 75 gallon plywood boxes for mine. After I got done assembling it, I realized that I don't like screwing into the end of the plywood. I am sure it will hold but I don't get a warm and fuzzy. I am now going to fiberglass the outside corners of the boxes for some structural support.

I am going to use two 7" 200 micron filter socks, four 4" 100 micron socks, and blue bonded filter pad for mechanical filtration. It will be setup in a 3 tier overflow setup then finally onto the bio-balls.


----------



## CHBGator

iceblue said:


> CHBGator said:
> 
> 
> 
> For lighting I'm looking at a few ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> I bought 2 of these at the home depot for my 350g. Model # 9265, or 9266 and 9267. http://www.lightsofamerica.com/sec.htm Thier a little more than halfway down the page.
> 
> They only use use 65 watts of power but give the equivelent of 500 watts each. With a color temp of 6500k and 6825 lumens it's a great alternative for the money.
> 
> By the way, congratulations on a successful fill. :thumb:
Click to expand...

That looks very promising thanks for the link :thumb:



tunerX said:


> What kind of setup are you going to do with the sump box.
> 
> I am making two 75 gallon plywood boxes for mine. After I got done assembling it, I realized that I don't like screwing into the end of the plywood. I am sure it will hold but I don't get a warm and fuzzy. I am now going to fiberglass the outside corners of the boxes for some structural support.
> 
> I am going to use two 7" 200 micron filter socks, four 4" 100 micron socks, and blue bonded filter pad for mechanical filtration. It will be setup in a 3 tier overflow setup then finally onto the bio-balls.


Same here on the thought of putting screws in the end of plywood So I'll probably get some 1"x1" for the corners on the inside and screw the plywood into them then drylock the whole thing inside and out. As for bio media I'm going to use pot scrubbers. I forgot where I got the link from but its a great deal on them 8 per bag for $1, minimum 12 bags with free shipping. http://doitbest.com/Scouring+Pads-Do+it ... 632989.dib My drain pipes will run into a filter pad probably blue bonded pad over top of a drip plate to make sure all the bio media gets wet.


----------



## FloridaFishGuy

Are you going to do a breakdown of your costs? I would like to know what is taking up the bulk of your $$. I am thinking of doing a smaller version of this sometime in the future, maybe a 240G or 300G and was wondering how much it would cost.


----------



## CHBGator

Glass $160 but that was at a wholesale cost and the markup would prob put it at around $300+ 
Sweetwater paint, respirator, paint buckets and rollers $180
Lumber including hardware was about $300
Water pump $140
Plumbing parts about $120

Unfortunately I didn't keep the best records on exact amounts except for the glass, paint and pump but they are real close. Keep in mind some of the wood I got for free I only had to buy 1 sheet of plywood and those are about $30 a sheet so 3-4 more would add $90-$120. So buying everything your looking at about $1200 or so.


----------



## iceblue

CHBGator said:


> my original plan today of making a 100G Plywood/Drylock box.


I built a 150g capacity sump for my project useing scrap wood I had around the garage. I did it in a "shipping crate" style to beef it up so it would resist bowing in and out when I do water changes. The framing goes all the way around the plywood box and into and over the top of a 1"x 4" rim that was dadoed to slide over the edge of the plywood. Its light wieght, very strong and resists twisting and flexing.


----------



## tunerX

You are gonna do drylock in the sump? Do you know how TFG's plywood/drylock sump is holding out?

I can't tell but is Iceblues sump Drylock as well? How is that one holding up.


----------



## FloridaFishGuy

Has anyone tried lining a tank frame with a pond liner and then cutting a square for the glass? If you just glue the liner to the plywood and then silicone the glass to the pond liner. You would probably still need to coat the plywood with some dryloc but I think it would be cheaper than the sweetwater stuff. Some websites online sell 15X10 pond liners for like $55. That would be enough for a 8X2X2 tank. Glasscages has this tank for $650 shipped. With my idea I think I could make the tank, stand, and filter system for the same price. What do you guys think?


----------



## Rivermud

Glass doesn't silicone well to rubber pond liners.. There are instances of it being done in the past however. If i can find some of the old articles I'll post some links for you.


----------



## lomax

pond liner does not work with silicone, and it does not glue to the plywood very well. pond liner stretches allot and no glue can hold unless it is made just for it.

believe me i tried to make it work for weeks on my 700G post and beam tank.


----------



## CHBGator

tunerX said:


> You are gonna do drylock in the sump? Do you know how TFG's plywood/drylock sump is holding out?
> 
> I can't tell but is Iceblues sump Drylock as well? How is that one holding up.


Yes I'm building the sump then paint drylock over the whole thing, inside and out.


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## dougwe

Have any of you used this plywood method for a saltwater tank. If so would you use a different coating. Thanks


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## CHBGator

dougwe said:


> Have any of you used this plywood method for a saltwater tank. If so would you use a different coating. Thanks


Once Epoxy is cured it is chemical resistant so I'd assume salt isnt going to effect it either. The best bet would be to call the epoxy manufacturer and ask. I do recall someone building a reef tank using plywood epoxy and silicone with no problems.


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## lomax

i used to build boats with west systems epoxy, and they go in the ocean.


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## CHBGator

2nd test fill tonight. I had to adjust 2 of my overflow pipes because the tank was about 3/8" off lvl from one end to the other and I wasn't getting the same flow out of 2 of the overflows. So I'm hoping that helps some of my water reserve problems if not *** got a an idea on how to solve my lack of reserve volume for the pump to draw from but I want to test it out first then I'll post a few pics.

On another note earlier I went to a local LFS called Something Fishy Inc. great bunch of guys but the tanks... WOW! Not a single unhealthy looking fish, all tanks were immaculate no scratches no algae crusted glass or tank decorations and the best selection of cichlids in Cleveland. They also have an unbeatable price on the FX5, I just hope they have some still in stock in 3 weeks around bonus time. :thumb: to the guys there, I'll defiantly be heading back there if I plan on adding any fish to my 55G Malawi.


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## CHBGator

Good news bad news scenario as most DIY's go. First the good news. My little test of the water reserve problem worked. I took two 90's and some left over PVC and made a siphon/overflow tube. The reason for the test was not only to see if the tube would siphon water fast enough from the reserve tank but also to see if it would return the water back to the reserve in case there was a power failure and success! The pump ran for a while with no sucking air and there was still about 20G of water left in in each water tank. I have room for about 25G of bio material that isn't goign to be submerged. :thumb:





































Now for the 2 bits of bad news. First one is that I have a small slow drip still coming from one of my bulkhead gaskets. I'm going to try two things, first is try and wrap the gasket in Teflon tape in a way that its overlapping on both the side that comes in contact with the bulkhead lip inside the tank and the other between the gasket itself and the tank wall. Or since the bulkhead gasket is very stiff imo and not as soft as it should be to conform better so I'll look for a softer replacement if the Teflon Doesnt work. Now the Bad News
















No thats not spilt water, seems I have a leak in a seam. So now after If fixed the pump problem I get another! SNAFU. So as I type this the tank is draining and I'll be off to Lowes for a few tubes of silicone to silicone the corner seams which I honestly should have done in the first place. Cant wait to see this water bill.....


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## iceblue

Bummer...  Let us know how large or small the crack is and where it is. I'm starting to worry about mine now and I'm still a few months away from adding water.


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## CHBGator

Good news about the leak is that its a very slow one and when the tank was about half empty the water stoped coming out and the puddle started to shrink and evaporate. So hopefully that means that the crack isn't very big so as water pressure decreased it closed back up or the leak was towards the top. Either way The silicone should stretch enough that it wont rip when the water pressure builds back up. Hopefully...


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## TheeMon

wow....


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## Zero-Chaos

CHBGator said:


> First one is that I have a small slow drip still coming from one of my bulkhead gaskets. I'm going to try two things, first is try and wrap the gasket in Teflon tape in a way that its overlapping on both the side that comes in contact with the bulkhead lip inside the tank and the other between the gasket itself and the tank wall. Or since the bulkhead gasket is very stiff imo and not as soft as it should be to conform better so I'll look for a softer replacement if the Teflon Doesnt work.


You could look into using one of these http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/showskus.asp?ctg=11&subctg=4&prodgrpid=117 inplace of the bulkhead.

I used 2 of these to connect 2 Sterilite containers for a sump. Nice large flange and 2 gaskets for each. haven't leaked yet. The drain screens come off so there is no metal left to corrode or rust. It looks like your pipe work is 2", these may work well for you if your Teflon idea does not pan out. .


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## Walter

I have used these kind of drains on my pond and TFG used them on his 800. They work well, are cheaper than bulkeads and are available at virtually every hardware store.


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## CHBGator

BINGO! Well turns out it was not a split in a seam but the water was due to a leaky bulkhead gasket! Here I had two leaky gaskets not one the reason I saw one was because the water was dripping out of the back of the bulkhead the other was a compounded problem. The gasket was leaking and normally that water would have dripped out of the back like bulkhead one did but the second part of the problem is that sometimes in plywood there are places where there is no laminate and it forms a channel between the layers, so as the water was leaking past the gasket it was draining down this channel and out of the bottom then down through the cracks between the 2x8's and puddling on the floor. Thats why when the water lvl in the tank got to about half the leaking stopped.










But now since I have the tank drained and wiped down I'll give it about an hour to dry then I'll go ahead and silicone the seams and the holes where the bulkhead cutout is like I should have in the first place. 
I also picked up a gasket from Lowes I might try out if the Teflon tape idea doesn't work. Its a tank basin gasket for a toilet. Its soft maybe to soft. Its made from foam rubber so I hope its also safe for the fish. If anyone knows either way I'd appreciate any knowledge you can offer.


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## bell

i was planing on syliconing my 350 after the sweetwater, just good insurance if you ask me 
glad you found the leak, it's when you can't find it that there is a problem


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## iceblue

Woo hoo. Easy fix. How did you fiqure it out so quickly?

I puttied my tank 3 times over a period of a year and a half and was pretty sure I had filled the gaps inside the bulkhead. But just to make sure I went and took another look. :thumb:

Glad to see your back on track.


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## CHBGator

iceblue said:


> Woo hoo. Easy fix. How did you fiqure it out so quickly?
> 
> I puttied my tank 3 times over a period of a year and a half and was pretty sure I had filled the gaps inside the bulkhead. But just to make sure I went and took another look. :thumb:
> 
> Glad to see your back on track.


Glad to be back on track as well  After I drained the tank I jumped in it with two towels to dry it off then I grabbed a flashlight and went over every inch of that corner of the tank for about 15 min and found nothing, then I noticed that a few drops of water had run down the inside of the tank right under the bulkhead so I took it off then I saw the 3 small holes. It was a HUGE relief to see those holes. Any thoughts on if the foam rubber gasket will be fish safe? I took the thin hard rubber gasket off and the new one from Lowes on and it fits perfectly! It was only $1.69 so I might just forget about the Teflon and go with the foam rubber gasket if it works as well as it looks on the bulkhead.


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## Walter

Did the gasket say what material it is made from? I would expect it to be neoprene, which would be safe.


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## tunerX

Good job on finding the leak. Hopefully you can cycle without any more problems. I get worried and start to rethink things every time I read a plywood tank thread where the poster has problems.

I am installing my bulkheads tomorrow and plan on using the gasket that came with them. Once I get it snug I am going to put some silicone over the seams.


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## CHBGator

Walter said:


> Did the gasket say what material it is made from? I would expect it to be neoprene, which would be safe.


The package says Sponge rubber gasket.



tunerX said:


> Good job on finding the leak. Hopefully you can cycle without any more problems. I get worried and start to rethink things every time I read a plywood tank thread where the poster has problems.
> 
> I am installing my bulkheads tomorrow and plan on using the gasket that came with them. Once I get it snug I am going to put some silicone over the seams.


I siliconed over the seams also but now I have the problem of not being able to get the silicone off since I had to play with the bulkheads.


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## CHBGator

Called the Manufacturer of the gasket and asked if it had anything in it to prohibit fungus, mold or bacteria and I was told they would ask someone and I would get a call back. Well no call back but I'll try again tomorrow. :roll:


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## spotmonster

CHBGator said:


> On another note earlier I went to a local LFS called Something Fishy Inc. great bunch of guys


Nice meeting you there.

Come on now with the pic updates


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## CHBGator

Bought more material last night and today. 2x4's to finish the walls on the sides of the tank, 1/2" blue foam insulation to line the ceiling above the tank, Drylock to paint the hood I'll be building today, Plexiglass for the light cutouts in the hood, eggcrate for the filter media and mech filtration to rest on in the filter, 2x T-5 double bulb lightstrips, and hinges for the lid, all at Lowes for just under $200 then this morning I ordered 4x 2" Black Bulkhead screens, 2x 300W heaters and blue bonded filter pad from Foster & Smith for $82. So needless to say I'll be busy this weekend. I'll take pics as I go and post them later.



spotmonster said:


> Nice meeting you there.
> 
> Come on now with the pic updates


Still have the FX5's in stock?


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## CHBGator

Yet another delay to finishing the project  , while I was putting in the insulation above the tank in the ceiling I got a faint wiff of gas near the gas line where it comes into the house. Its very small I had to put my nose to the joint where the leak is but its still is a leak. Time for a plumber $$$ , gas lines are one thing I'd rather have a professional come do. Great time of the year for this stuff to happen we already had to dip in the Christmas funds over the weekend to replace our washer that pooped out on us. Good news is that the tank is full I got the heaters and bulkhead screens in so I can start cycling.


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## anole

Hey CHBGator I also live in parma. I'm looking to try and build a 200 gal tank. Haven't started it yet. Price 4 glass is expensive.


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## CHBGator

Let me know what size you need and I'll see what I can do at work.


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## CHBGator

More progress today. Went to Lowes and got what I needed to wire the lights and make the UGJ. The Gas pipe is going to cost about $100 to get fixed but that isnt going to be until the 1st of the year but anyways here's some new pics.

Filter with Blue Bonded filter pad for the mech filtration. 









UGJ before I put it into the tank.









UGJ in the tank. If the water looks a bit dark its because I've got a bottle of Blackwater expert in it. I'll have the gravel, rocks and possibly driftwood in the tank next weekend.


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## iceblue

Do you have a siphon break or checkvalve anywhere in your ugj?


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## CHBGator

iceblue said:


> Do you have a siphon break or checkvalve anywhere in your ugj?


2x 1/4" holes on each pipe just under the water line. I've unplugged the pump a few times to make sure they break the siphon and they work like a charm.


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## mmd

"The Gas pipe is going to cost about $100 to get fixed but that isnt going to be until the 1st of the year but anyways here's some new pics. "
-
Im no expert but, i think your tank may leak a bit should your house blow up.
-
all kidding aside i like this thread and cant wait till you get some fish in


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## bibbs68

Nice project CHBGator. I'm anxious to see the finished project.


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## anole

Your tank is really coming along nice! The tank i'm looking at is going to be aprox. L6'x H3'x W 28". I'm just looking at what this is going to cost in acrylic. Its actually for a reptile tank. 3/8" sheet I believe will be thick enough. Took me forever to find instructions to build my own. Well if ur able to help me out I would appreciate it. Oh if u like u can also email me at [email protected] Thanks again


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## spotmonster

spotmonster said:


> Nice meeting you there.
> 
> Come on now with the pic updates


Still have the FX5's in stock?[/quote]

Sorry for my delay in answering Gator, I'm a guy that talked to you there but I'm not Dave from Somethingfishy. I was just there again saturday and I spotted 3 still in stock!


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## CHBGator

No problem thanks for the info tho.


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## tunerX

After filling the tank, how long did it take you to notice your leaks?


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## CHBGator

The bulkhead gasket leaks I noticed as soon as the water got to them. The only seams I have are in the corners so there are only a few places where it can leak barring a catastrophic failure of the plywood but I haven't had any leaks besides the bulkhead gasket.


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## lotec25

Amazing is all i can say. That is one big tank. Wish i had the room to build a tank this size.

On another note what color of gravel are you going to go with? You have a lot of options to go with glad it is coming together for yea.


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## cichlid-fan

It has been a month that I have been in the forum and the tank looks great man congr. on the fill up can't wait to see it finish.


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## CHBGator

lotec25 said:


> Amazing is all i can say. That is one big tank. Wish i had the room to build a tank this size.
> 
> On another note what color of gravel are you going to go with? You have a lot of options to go with glad it is coming together for yea.


Thanks and I guess whatever color Pool filter sand the Pool place is selling  I'm going there tomorrow to pick up about 400-500 lbs I've got some rocks prepped to go in also.

I also added more filtration today by picking up an FX5 for $220 and I still need more plexiglass to finish the lid, and some electrical outlets and outlet boxes to wire up a breaker in the breaker box just for the tank. Oh and 4 bulbs for the light fixtures I got for the tank. All while I'm finishing my Christmas shopping.


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## tunerX

I bought 200 lbs of filter sand and have about 3/4-1" layer on the bottom of mine. The interior dimensions are 96x48. 400 lbs is going to be a thick bed.

I also bought a single 24x48 inch sheet of 1/8 acrylic to test out as a cover panel. I thought the weight of the acrylic would keep it from warping from the heat and moisture but it warps in the middle. I have 4 panels that need to be covered, measuring 21.5x48"


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## CHBGator

I decided not to go with pool filter sand and went to Lowes again and got Pea Gravel. I bought 10 Bags But I don't think I'm going to need them all. They were only $2.59 a bag so it was really cheap. The bad part is all the rinsing you have to do but its looking good so far. I also added 5 new fish to the tank. 4- 3"-3.5" Silver Arowanas and a BGK thats about 5". The BGK doesn't know what to do with all the hiding places he has and the baby Silvers cruise the surface chomping on cichlid stick pieces I toss in for them. I also got the rest of what I need to finish the lights and lid tomorrow, so busy busy day.


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## bell

i devised a simple way to easily clean big amounts of gravel.
get yourself 2 22 gallon rubbermaid trash cans, fill one halfway with your rinsing water and get a heavy collander to filter the rocks.
simply pour your new gravel into the collander and dip/rise/dip/rise in the can with the rinse water, when your done dump it in the other big can, and repeat.
when the rinse water get really dirty just dump it (i use the 22 gallon cans as it can be tilted and dumped easily).
by rinsing larger amounts like this really saves time as you can work with larger amounts at once, when i'm done i have 2 22 gallon cans which i use for syphoning or as emergency "tanks".
i then use the collander to scoop the rocks into the tank.


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## CHBGator

Good idea. It was a bit cold to do that today but what I did was get a 5G bucket from Lowes and drill a bunch of small holes in the bottom then I rinsed 1/3 of a bag at a time. Worked out pretty well, all the silt drained out the bottom and I was able to grab a hand full at a time off the top and just run water over it and toss it in the other bucket and dump into the tank. Speaking of which I got all the gravel in, finished the top and got the lights on. Lots of pics for this update.

Piano Hinge, aluminum bar stock and the plexiglass that will be the hinged lid. 









I sandwiched the plexi between the hinge and the aluminum bar stock and drilled the holes throught the plexi and the bar stock. then I attached them together using stainless steel screws, washers and nuts. 

















Here is the top with the lid on. I drilled the holes then used silicone over the hole then put the screws in so no water can get in and slowly rot the wood around the screws. 









Here is the bio media I ran across at a pond shop close by. Its basicly pondnetting filled with 2 cubic feet of PVC shaving. Pretty cool if you ask me. When its time to clean the media just pull the whole bag out and dunk it. 









Tops on the tank. 









Cut out for the water return line. 









Top of the tank after I hung the lights and drilled 3 holes in the plexiglass for the heater power cords and the intake and return line for the FX5.
















I'll at some point in time stop and make some shelves right there for the FX5 and any meds, conditioners and dry food for the fish. 









Full tank shot with the Lights on for the first time water is still cloudy from adding the substrate. The blackwater Expert doesnt help the visibility with all the cloudyness either. 









Kinda hard to see but all 4 of the Arowanas cruise the water surface together now since the lights have been on. It will be easier to take pics once the water clears up and they grow a few more inches. 









I cant wait for them to get bigger so I can start adding some more fish.


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## tunerX

Nice work on the lid. I wanted to be able to open all 4 sections of my top so I am going to need to do some supports to stop the 1/8" plexi from warping. I got the same stuff from lowes.

Have you done a full calculation for water volume yet. With my water level I have 579 gallons in the tank, and 92 gallons in my 184 gallon sump setup. With the system powered up I have about 3.5 inches from the top of the tank to the water line. When I power it down I have about 5 inches to the top of the sump.

I tossed in all of my old bio media from my 240 gallon tanks and also added 12 oz of bio spira. The tank is pretty much fully stocked right now.


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## TheeMon

tuner post pics


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## cichlid-fan

Heck yell tuner, post so pic of that man.


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## CHBGator

tunerX said:


> Nice work on the lid. I wanted to be able to open all 4 sections of my top so I am going to need to do some supports to stop the 1/8" plexi from warping. I got the same stuff from lowes.
> 
> Have you done a full calculation for water volume yet. With my water level I have 579 gallons in the tank, and 92 gallons in my 184 gallon sump setup. With the system powered up I have about 3.5 inches from the top of the tank to the water line. When I power it down I have about 5 inches to the top of the sump.
> 
> I tossed in all of my old bio media from my 240 gallon tanks and also added 12 oz of bio spira. The tank is pretty much fully stocked right now.


I'm around 570G in the tank and 60G in the trickle/sump when the pump is off. When the pump is on there is about 25G left in the sump.

Had to change some stuff on the tank. The hood lasted a few days. OSB with drylock was a bad idea. The OSB was bubbling in a few spots so I took the hood off and made a new frame for the plexiglass out of aluminum stock. It also makes getting in and out of the tank much easier I still have a little work to do on it but the Wallet needs to recover from Christmas first. 









The tank has cleared up quite a bit. 









I also added more fish. 4 Silver Dollars (Metynnis argenteus) and 2 Four line Pims for clean up. Unfortunatly the Pims were a real bad move. I'm down to 2 Arowanas now.  the Pim Cats were only about 1 1/2 inches longer then the Arowanas but they still fit in the cats mouths. They were fine for about 3 days then one morning I was short 2 baby Arowanas and in their place were fat cat bellies. Trying to catch the Cats was a frustrating nightmare so I removed the 2 remaining Aro's to a 29G for a few weeks to get more size on them. They've easily grown about 1/2-3/4" in the 2 weeks I've had them. So if anyone has a TSN to loan out for a day or so to do some dirty work for me on the Pim cats....  The silver dollars are doing well tho one of the males keeps showing off for the females but I think at 2" they are still a bit to small to breed. The tank also seems to be going through a mini cycle I've got a small spike in the Ammonia and NitrItes so I'm glad I removed the Aro's before that happened.


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## CHBGator

Well it keeps getting better and better. I'm down to one silver now. Of the 2 left one was larger than the other and a lot more aggressive because he beat the snot outta the other silver so I'm down to one now.  So today I'll be putting on the scuba mask and fishing out 2 cats. I hope the last silver likes fresh fish fillet because catfish is on the menu!


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## jimmymac

This project is coming along great!


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## CHBGator

Thanks for the compliments! I'm going to be adding some center support under the tank to prevent any long term sagging just to be safe. You can't have enough overkill when it comes to 5,000 lb of water!


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## 3ndlyb_alnt

nice :thumb:


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## Craigthor

How do you like the sweetwater? Also how bad is it to work with indoors? How much Epoxy to hardener do you need. I am going to be building a 84L*36W*20-24T tank.

Craig


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## indykevin

CHBGator said:


> African, Malawi to be Specific. The more color I get into it *the more SHE will go along with the whole project *from start to finish.


Big giant DITTO here!


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## CHBGator

Craigthor said:


> How do you like the sweetwater? Also how bad is it to work with indoors? How much Epoxy to hardener do you need. I am going to be building a 84L*36W*20-24T tank.
> 
> Craig


I used it in a confined area in the basement with only one window and you defiantly needed a respirator. When you buy the Paint it comes with the hardener. One can of paint goes with one can of hardener IF you are going to use it all at once. I did 3 coats so I split the can into thirds.



indykevin said:


> CHBGator said:
> 
> 
> 
> African, Malawi to be Specific. The more color I get into it *the more SHE will go along with the whole project *from start to finish.
> 
> 
> 
> Big giant DITTO here!
Click to expand...

I didn't go the Malawi route. I couldn't resist getting an arowana


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## DMWave45

Let's see some pictures!!!!!!!!


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## CHBGator

LOL sorry not much has gone on. Except the fish getting BIG! I'll take some pics soon of the fish tho. Got a baby on the way now so I have to really watch the spending which means the basement will be getting done 1 drywall sheet at a time now


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## limpert

Hey man do you have any more recent pictures... i'de like to see the finished project


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## CHBGator

No sorry nothing new to the tank itself just started putting up the doorway to the fish room behind the tank. Here are the pics of the fish i said I'd take tho.





































The Ripsaw catfish only comes out at night at the moment but hes going to outgrow his hiding spot shortly. The rosey reds got eaten by the O's finally and unfortunately so did the glass knife


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## CHBGator

I'll be making another dent in the project this weekend. I went to Lowes this evening and bought the last of the 2x4 studs, drywall and everything to wire in a baseboard heater in the fish room and run a line for the pump on the other side of the tank so I can lose the extension cord I have to use atm.. I'm going with a baseboard heater because heating the water in the tank makes to much humidity and starts to make the basement smell like a big aquarium is down there  Then as soon as the check from Bush gets here I'll stimulate the economy even more and completely finish the rest of the basement by heading back to lowes.


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## CHBGator

I'll be making another dent in the project this weekend. I went to Lowes this evening and bought the last of the 2x4 studs, drywall and everything to wire in a baseboard heater in the fish room and run a line for the pump on the other side of the tank so I can lose the extension cord I have to use atm.. I'm going with a baseboard heater because heating the water in the tank causes to much evaporation and the humidity causes the basement to smell like a big aquarium is down there  Then as soon as the check from Bush gets here I'll stimulate the economy even more and completely finish the rest of the basement by heading back to Lowes.


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## Nathan43

Looks great, I am jealous


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## CHBGator

Got more done this past weekend, I framed in the top front of the tank put in insulation and hung drywall. I have to get a door this weekend and hang that then wire in the baseboard heater. I might also get a few new fish with the check from GW.


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## mmd

looking good


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## FIREFISH

Mam, that looks like it was alot of work! Great Job. FF


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## BlackShark11k

Me thinks it's time for an update


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## CHBGator

Drywalls up in the rest of the basement and I just changed substrate from pea gravel to Leveling sand, so the tank is filling up right now and still a little cloudy. I'll finish filling it tonight and run a cheapo filter to remove some of the fine stuff floating in the tank. The Fish are all in other tanks atm while I did the change over to sand and the water clears. Before I put them back in I'll take measurments on the Arowana and Ripsaw.


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## NYjets51

I would have liked to see mbuna in that tank


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## christopherhicks

Great job now all I have to do is get rid of the house I just bought and buy on with a basement and build one for myself and go with cichlids. Man thats a nice tank great job again :dancing: :thumb: :fish:


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## CHBGator

Thanks. 

This thread here is/should be more on the build so here is the link to the the tank and the changes to the inside. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=175679


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