# Scared to feed



## phin (Oct 20, 2010)

Hi. I'm new to cichlids and new to the forum, but not new to fish keeping. My cichlid tank is a 29 gallon tank with 6 juvenile pseudotropheus saulosi cichlids. Playsand substrate and lots of rocks/formations. As the fish mature I plan on keeping one male and 4 or 5 females. Right now it appears I have 3 males and 3 females.

I ordered 8 p. Saulosi off aquabid a couple weeks ago. They all arrived in apparently excellent condition, and while they were mostly colorless upon arrival, within a day of their new home their colors really started to come in nicely. I drip-acclimated the fish over a period of an hour and a half and upon introducing into their new home fed New Life Spectrum cichlid pellets (1mm sinking pellets) (34% protein).

Well, as I had juvenile fish I wanted to encourage growth. (I've raised kribs before and know how much they can eat and how fast they can grow) So to encourage growth, of course, I fed them more. I was feeding NLS pellets 4 times a day and in addition adding half an Hikari algae wafer a day, some dried seaweed sheets, and even put in a leaf of romaine. Of course these little critters never complained and constantly looked eager to eat and did.

About 5 days after I received the fish the smallest female stopped coming out to eat. The next day she appeared bloated and had white stringy feces hanging out her vent. The next day the largest male stopped coming out, I noticed he too had white stringy feces and appeared bloated.

I treated the tank with API General Cure (contains 250mg Metro per packet - I used 3 packets) for two days (two seperate applications). Then continued to treat with melafix for 6 days. I removed any carbon from the filter during the treatments. I performed 15% water changes daily after the second metro treatment and a 30% water change the day after the last melafix dose. I then added carbon back to the filter. I did not feed anything until the second day of the melafix treatments.

I lost both fish by then end of the metro treatments. All the other fish appear healthy, though. All feces are regular, brownish/red (the color of the food) and none show any signs of bloat.

Right now I am very skittish about feeding anything at all, as I don't want to induce bloat again. I'm sure the bloat came about from my over feeding. The fact that it was the largest and smallest fish in the tank helps convice me of that. Since the largest fish was also the most aggressive and would eat everything he could and I fed so much that the smallest fish was able to get her fill too much and too often.

Right now I am feeding NLS one time per day. Approximately 18-24 1mm pellets. My fish devour these in 10 seconds. Rule of thumb is the amount of food they can eat in 1-2 minutes, but I'm afraid to over feed again.

Does anyone feed NLS pellets to their fish? Juvenile psuedotropheus specifically? If so, how much do you feed and how often? Based on the size of the fishs' eyes I could probably feed 6 or 7 pellets a piece or 3 times as much as I am feeding now.

Any suggestions?


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

> Rule of thumb is the amount of food they can eat in 1-2 minutes.


That's not the rule of thumb that I'm familiar with. This is what I've heard as the rule of thumb for mbuna: Feed once per day the amount they can eat in 20-30 seconds. Or twice per day the amount they can eat in 10-15 seconds.

For fry and young juveniles I increase to two or three times a day, but the overall amount of food fed per day is only slightly more (about 30%) more than I feed adults as far as how long it takes to consume.
2x - the amount they can eat in 15-20 seconds
3x - the amount they can eat in 12-15 seconds

Adults I feed NLS cichlid formula almost exclusively (maybe every other week I give them one day of spirulina flakes). Fish under 1" I feed NLS grow.

The bloat was almost certainly not due to the food quality, but rather the food quantity that you gave them.


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## phin (Oct 20, 2010)

Thatnk for the info! Like I said, I'm new to mbuna, so my old "rules of thumbs" I guess don't really carry over.

It sounds like I can safely increase the amount I feed them.



> For fry and young juveniles I increase to two or three times a day, but the overall amount of food fed per day is only slightly more (about 30%) more than I feed adults as far as how long it takes to consume.
> 2x - the amount they can eat in 15-20 seconds
> 3x - the amount they can eat in 12-15 seconds


^^^Exactly what I was looking for :thumb:

I agree that the food quantity caused the bloat. My next question was going to ask if it was necessary (or a good idea) to provide a leaf of romaine or a algae wafer once in a while, but I see you feed spirulina flakes one day every other week, so I may do that. Should I give them a day with no food to allow them to empty their system?


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## justinf67 (Jul 19, 2009)

*phin* The romaine and algae wafer are unnecessary to feed to them. If it makes you happy, then u can feed it to them, but NLS on its own is the staple for mbuna. The protein content is balanced enough to prevent bloat unless they are fed way too much, which you found out. Spirulina 
is good for them, but again not necessary. Just curious, what part of Florida are you from?


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

They're voracious eaters, so yes, it's common for people to fast their Mbuna 1day/week, and sometimes one weekend/month.

I feed NLS pellets (1mm), but I think the occasional carrot/zucchini/etc *instead* of the daily pellets is fine. I'm kind of new too though, so maybe wait for a second on that one.

What I've read in books and online says it's okay, but I'd take experience over generic advice. :wink:


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm curious as to what people think of the advice given in the article about p. saulosi at the link below.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/p_saulosi.php

In the feeding section it says *"avoid pellets of any type."* Would this not apply to NLS pellets? :-?


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## Afishionado (Jun 6, 2006)

No, NLS pellets are fine. Just don't overfeed, and use the 1mm size, not larger. If you're currently feeding them some other diet wean them onto it gradually.


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## loffy74 (Sep 28, 2008)

I agree pellets are fine, but pellets are more dense then flake . so its easy to over feed.
I use to blame pellets for bloat, but its actually the stress of giving to much food.
Just feed once a day, its hard to resist giving more. Also watch out for alot chasing and fighting stress, can also lead to bloat. Saulosi can easily get bloat when over feeding. So dont attempt it.
I usually see bloat with one or more combinations of physical stress, water quality and over feeding.

After and during a bloat treament , might be a good idea to feed lightly every other day for a week or so.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It was feared when pellets often contained inferior ingredients that they would swell inside the fish and cause problems. You will also see recommendations sometimes to soak pellets before feeding for the same reason.

Modern formulas like NLS do not have any inferior ingredients. I feed NLS pellets to all my fish exclusively...no problems.


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## phin (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies. I've started feeding them slightly more (a larger pinch of pellets) and I'll feed in the morning before the light comes on. This way the food has time to sink to the bottom giving the less voracious of the group to scavange off rocks and ground. I'll see how long this lasts, as I'm sure they will figure it out any day now and attack the surface again.

I'm going to just feed NLS pellets and forego buying some spirulina flakes to only feed 2x per month.

What about frozen brine shrimp w/spirulina? I have some for another tank and the protein content is only 6% (most is frozen liquid I guess).


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I don't know much about saulosi but the profile here says they are herbivoire so I wouldn't chance it. Really NLS is *all* they need and I'd just stick with it. :thumb: Better safe than sorry.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

> I've started feeding them slightly more (a larger pinch of pellets) and I'll feed in the morning before the light comes on.


I'll bet you anything that within two weeks or less, your mbuna will learn what time you feed them even if it's before their lights come on. They'll be awake and ready for food at that time (unless it's pitch black dark).

As for the brine shrimp - not necessary. It probably won't hurt them if you do feed them some brine shrimp on occassion, but it's not like there is any piece of their diet that they are lacking from the NLS pellet. Notice that one of the ingredients in NLS is shrimp.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Since NLS is a *complete* food, meaning it has everything in it they need including shrimp & since saulosi are classified as *herbivores*, I would be afraid of adding *any* extra protein to their diet.

That's just me though. I feel that if one food meet all their needs, why bother giving something else. If it's not broke, don't fix it :lol: .

I had some frozen blood worms for some bumblebee gobies I tried to keep. The gobies died so I occasionally gave the bloodworms to my N. brichardi. Since they are *carnivores* I didn't think it would hurt but now that the bloodworms are all gone, I won't buy more for the brichardi because NLS is suppose to be complete for them too.


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## phin (Oct 20, 2010)

thanks. I will stick with the NLS only. if its complete, then substituting with anything is only taking away nutrients.


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

Very common to want to overfeed malawi mbuna. They will eat anything they can get even if its bad for them. Personally when I buy food for my herbivors The lower the percentage of protien the better. Although they do need it. I feed my mbuna mon-wed-fri they grow just as fast and I never loose any due to bloat. Might take a while to find a food you like. If the colors dont improve in a couple of months time to look for a new food source. I have tried many over the years but for the last 4 years I have been sold on new life spectrum.
Good luck.


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## polÃ…Â¾ (Oct 8, 2010)

Maybe not the right moment but I think defeinitely the right place to ask - can you tell some of your experience with having a group of P. saulosi? I am going to have the same tank size with just one group of this species, so I still want to get as much info as I can (from the first hand, if possible  
Thanks, and enjoy your fish!


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

psuedotropheus , saulosi As far as feeding like I said before 3 days a week about one good pinch per 2 fish a little less when there small. put it in slowly so it gets eaten and not just adding to your nitrate. These fish will get aqressive more so the alpha male, so caves are a must. Be sure to place rocks so you dont get any crashes these fish will dig relentlessly.


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## poseidons minions (Dec 1, 2009)

i feed my mbunies 3 times a week with fresh veggies on off days


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