# White top afra vs white top hara



## rufretic

Are these two different fish? I have purchased one of each, from different sellers, and they certainly look different but the research I've done seems like they are just two different names for the same fish. Anybody know? I haven't looked up how to post pics here, it's not the same as other forums so for now I can't post pics. The main differences I notice are the hara is a lighter baby blue base, less barring, solid baby blue dorsal and longer fins, especially the pec fins. The afra looks more like the typical afra, more bars on head and body, darker blue base, bars extend up into the dorsal but it has a baby blue edge across the entire dorsal. Both fish fully color up for me so it's not a dominance thing. Both are beautiful so I'll probably keep both but I'd like to know if they are different fish or the same fish with obvious pattern differences. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## Kanorin

The answer is: they might be the same or they might be different. Such is the case when dealing only with trade names.
"White top hara" is almost definitetly Cynotilapia sp. "hara" (although some vendors have mistakenly labeled Metriaclima pulpicans as "White top hara" as well)
"White top afra" has been used to describe Cynotilapia afra from several collection points (lupingu for example) as well as Cynotilapia sp. "hara"


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## Kanorin

rufretic said:


> The main differences I notice are the hara is a lighter baby blue base, less barring, solid baby blue dorsal and longer fins, especially the pec fins. The afra looks more like the typical afra, more bars on head and body, darker blue base, bars extend up into the dorsal but it has a baby blue edge across the entire dorsal. Both fish fully color up for me so it's not a dominance thing. Both are beautiful so I'll probably keep both but I'd like to know if they are different fish or the same fish with obvious pattern differences. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.


I can't hazard a guess based on your description because C. sp. "hara" or afra from different sources can have individual slight variations. Pictures will be needed. Also post pictures of any females that you have.

How to post pictures


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## Kevin in Ky

I ran in to this same issue a while back and there a few threads here that discusses this topic. I agree with Kanorin, so post pictures as soon as you can...but from your description, it sounds exactly like what happened with mine. I ordered 2 groups from 2 different vendors at 2 different times. One as Cynotilapia sp "Hara"(Galaryia Reef) and one as "White-Top Afra Hara" (these turned out to be the Metriaclima Pulpican). They are very similar looking..especially when small...but are 2 totally different species..which is the problem. This is what yours that you describe as having "darker blue bars that extend up in to the dorsal",..sound like to me (Pulpican). You might also look for what looks like a dark beard on them (like a dark 
5 - O' clock shadow)..and they will act more aggressive and territorial than the Cyno sp 'Hara'. I am talking about the males when I say this (the females look even more alike when young)

Post pics and we can tell you more definitely


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## DJRansome

There really is no such thing as white top afra so buyer beware if you see a fish labeled as such. Cynotilapia sp. hara is the current correct name and they do often come from the collection point Gallireya Reef.


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## Fogelhund

DJRansome said:


> There really is no such thing as white top afra so buyer beware if you see a fish labeled as such. Cynotilapia sp. hara is the current correct name and they do often come from the collection point Gallireya Reef.


Except that is a common name that has been used to describe a number of "afra" types over the years... labeling fish as such might not be 100% accurate, but then neither is Electric Blue Johanni, or Maingano, or Sunshine Peacock... but they are pretty accepted.


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## rufretic

The lighter one is definitely cynotilapia hara, that's what it was labeled as and that's exactly what it looks like. It's the other one I'd like to figure out. He was in an assorted tank and I liked him and asked a couple of the guys that worked there what it was, they agreed it was a white top afra, I disagreed but they seemed sure and they are pretty knowledgeable fish guys, not just some high school kid working there that could care less. I don't like to argue with them because they have 30 years experience where I have a year. I knew it was not the same as my white top hara but thought that white top afra was just another trade name for my hara. I decided to buy it because it looked different enough and I liked it. Not for breeding but just for a male mbuna show tank. After doing some research I found other white top afra pictures that match what my new one looks like but can't find a true identification. Now I'm convinced it's a different fish, just not sure what. It does remind me of the zebra family but definitely not a pulpican, mine has better barring and they go across the forehead as well, much prettier imo. If it wasn't so young, I'd have a better idea on size and body structure and it would be easier to identify. It does not have that heavy set body like the puplpican. He's on the smaller side in the tank but still colors up with his dominant colors if anyone messes with him even if they are twice his size, seems like a tough little guy. I'll have to get a good pic of him and post it to see what you guys think.


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## GTZ

Here's a link to my hara pics if it's any help.


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## rufretic

Here is a good example of a white top afra being sold, this looks more like mine. Any ideas on what it is?


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## rufretic

GTZ said:


> Here's a link to my hara pics if it's any help.


Yep, that's what my hara looks like as well, I want to know what my white top afra is. Looks like the pic I just posted.


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## noki

A "Hara" should be sold with the name "Hara" in it.

Now as said, the "White Top Afra" is a trade name that has been around for over 30 years. Often was the Kingsizei/Pulpican but sometimes hard to tell.

Be careful with vague trade names. Sometimes sellers don't really know what they are selling.


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## rufretic

Ok, let me make this more clear, I know what a hara is. I have a hara and it is exactly what it is supposed to be. The question is, what is the fish that is sold as a white top afra? I originaly thought it was just a trade name for the hara but the white top afra is a different fish. Here is the one I bought as white top afra. Anyone know what the real name is? He isn't fully colored in the pic but enough to tell he is not a hara. He's small so he doesn't hold his dominant color for long and I missed him in full color so this was the best I could get.


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## noki

rufretic said:


> Ok, let me make this more clear, I know what a hara is. I have a hara and it is exactly what it is supposed to be. The question is, what is the fish that is sold as a white top afra? I originaly thought it was just a trade name for the hara but the white top afra is a different fish. Here is the one I bought as white top afra. Anyone know what the real name is? He isn't fully colored in the pic but enough to tell he is not a hara. He's small so he doesn't hold his dominant color for long and I missed him in full color so this was the best I could get.


As said before, the "White Top Afra" is either a Pulpican/Kingsizei, or some sort of vague Afra that may not be pure.

You pic looks like a type of Afra, but it is hard to know if it is a pure fish.


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## DJRansome

Others have mentioned white top afra is a common name for Metriaclima pulpican a.k.a Kingsizei but maybe that's not your fish. I'll move the post to Unidentified.


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## rufretic

Sounds good. It's definitely not kingsizei, I've seen a lot of those in pictures and at the lfs. My fish has much better barring and almost an entirely black face with strong bars on the forehead. It is also a deeper blue, the kingsizei is pretty pale in comparison. Hopefully someone will recognize it. I've looked through all the afra pictures and couldn't find one that matched. A few zebras could have potential. I guess as others have said, it may not be pure since it was purchased in an assorted tank but there were at least 6 that looked exactly like this one in the same tank which makes me lean more towards it being a pure fish.


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## StructureGuy

If the common name is "white top afra" or "white top hara" then I would expect the fish to have a white dorsal fin. All of your pictures show the vertical barring extending into the dorsal fin.

Cynotilapia sp. "Hara"









Metriaclima pulpican (aka kingsizei)









Cynotilapia zebroides (Metangula)









Kevin


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## B-rad

Your second photo looks like mine nearly exactly and when I bought it was a Galliyera Reef.


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