# DIY substrate



## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

instead of making a background with foam and concrete or spraypaint, i was thinking of doing a simple, but hopefully effective DIY substrate...

55 gallon tank for my fry...
everyone says for fry use bare bottom, but this tank will be out in the living area of the house and i do not want it to look like ****... so, if i buy some foam from like home dumster, can i use some kind of fish safe spray paint and just paint the foam a sandish color and be done with it... or should i crete it like the backgrounds people make...

i was going to just paint the under side of the tank, but the middle brace is in the way and you would see the black brace... i want to go with a sand color theme as that is what is in my main tank...

any suggestions on what i can do or get to work as a substrate without actually using sand...

thanks


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## Grey Legion (Apr 11, 2005)

With the tank being empty can you not move the brace up enough to paint under it. I would say that keeping things on the outside is the best way to go a piece of foam in the bottom could lead to problems (waste, etc) and being a fry tank I woul dbe extra careful of what is in with them, a clean barebottom tank is the best way to go.


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## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

tank is empty, haven't played with whether or not i can lift the brace up enough to some paint or paper under it... wasn't sure how the bottom braces are put together... i'll have to check it out when i get home... didn't think about the waste issue, so thanks...


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## Grey Legion (Apr 11, 2005)

Yea, that would be my main concern. As for painting I am sure you can squeeze a brush under there some how. and maybe use a rock or decoration to cover any area your unhappy with.

:thumb:


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## mepeterser2451 (Mar 23, 2007)

i dont get it. why are you trying to make sand with foam you buy when you can just buy sand at home depot for 10 bucks or so (brown or white) or you could get some free from a local beach or sneak some out of a gravel pit. the foam is just going to get annoying and if you're siliconing it down its dangerous cause it can bam pop loose and shoot to the surface.


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## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

mepeterser2451 said:


> i dont get it. why are you trying to make sand with foam you buy when you can just buy sand at home depot for 10 bucks or so (brown or white) or you could get some free from a local beach or sneak some out of a gravel pit.


they say for fry tanks you should keep a bare bottom... well, being that this fry tank is going to be in plain view, i don't want to see an ugly bottom and into my DIY stand with the 2x4's showing through the bottom of the glass... i wanted to put a layer of foam down to make it look like there is a subtrate in the tank, without it actually being sand, just the look....



mepeterser2451 said:


> the foam is just going to get annoying and if you're siliconing it down its dangerous cause it can bam pop loose and shoot to the surface.


if i do foam, it will be a very tight fit, plus with the weight of rocks on top i wouldn't worry about the thing shooting to the top...

not sure if i'll do it though... i'm gonna have a look at what the bottom brace is like, and go from there... i just like the idea of the foam, cause it would look like 1-2" of sand substrate... maybe even burn it a bit to make it look not so even... just a thought though.


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## Grey Legion (Apr 11, 2005)

One thing to keep in mind, with a single piece of foam on the bottom the force needed to keep it down will be HUGE, if it ever were to break free it would act like a piston and force much of the water out of the tank, including any fish, and lastly it would dump the rock onto the bottom causing more possible problems. I you want a easy bottom cut a piece of lexan to fit the bottom, cover it in silicone (aquarium safe) shape the silicone to your liking (wear a mask) and sprinkle sand on it to create the effect your looking for. Maybe even make it in a few sections so you can pull it up and vacuum under it.

That would work and only cost a few bucks more


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## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

i was thinking about that too, but again, that idea is pretty much flat and would not come up higher than the black trim work... you know how your substrate now comes above the trim work of the tank, that is the effect i would like to get... but who knows, i also do not want a 4'x1' peice of foam flying out of my tank, with 55 gallons of water on my floor, dead fish, and a broken tank from the rocks crashing down on the bottom of the tank ... lots to think about... i have about 2-3 more weeks before she spits, so i have a bit of time... worse case, she is in a 20 long right now, and the fry can live in my 20 long for a while... so, really i have unlimited time to figure this out and make it right, if this is the route i decide to go...


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## maddyfish (Jul 23, 2004)

Cover the bottom with sand colored ceramic floor tile. You could silicone it down to the bottom if you like.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Grey Legion said:


> One thing to keep in mind, with a single piece of foam on the bottom the force needed to keep it down will be HUGE, if it ever were to break free it would act like a piston and force much of the water out of the tank, including any fish, and lastly it would dump the rock onto the bottom causing more possible problems. I you want a easy bottom cut a piece of lexan to fit the bottom, cover it in silicone (aquarium safe) shape the silicone to your liking (wear a mask) and sprinkle sand on it to create the effect your looking for. Maybe even make it in a few sections so you can pull it up and vacuum under it.
> 
> That would work and only cost a few bucks more


I have used foam similar to what you can get from a place like Swiss Tropicals. No danger that it will float or act like a piston. It also adds biofiltration capacity to the tank. I've also used it as backgrounds and used either a cut made with a razor blade or a stitch of fishing line to create pockets on the visible side of the foam when used as a background, as starts for Java fern and other plants.


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## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

Mcdaphnia:
can you provide me with more info on this foam you used in the past... i am not sure of what you are talking about... this foam sinks, is that why i would not have to worry about it floating?
let me know if you can help...
thanks


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

venustus19 said:


> Mcdaphnia:
> can you provide me with more info on this foam you used in the past... i am not sure of what you are talking about... this foam sinks, is that why i would not have to worry about it floating?
> let me know if you can help...
> thanks


 It is open cell, so it does not trap air but fills with water when submerged.
http://www.swisstropicals.com/Poret%20F ... 0Foam.html

The foam I used to get was either white or tan, but what I can get now is black, blue, or red.


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## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

thanks Mcdaphnia...
i just emailed them asking some questions... was it expensive when you ordered it, or was it reasonable...

thanks again for the info.


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## Grey Legion (Apr 11, 2005)

Yea, I ahve never heard of that product, very interesting. Thanks for the info.


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## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

well, i got an email back from these guys, and here is what they said:

"Hi Brent,

I am sorry but I have never carried any white or tan foams. The "black" is more like charcoal.

Regarding your dimensions: The max length is 39" (the sheets are 100x100x5 cm), thus the easiest way to get to 48x13" is getting 4 sheets 13 x 13 x 2'' ($13 ea). The 55 gal divider is 19.5 x 13 x 2, $20. 
Shipping is $10."

so, for 2"foam for the substrate will cost me $52... that is crazy expensice, so i don't think i am going that route... plus i was gonna get a piece of foam for a tank divider, and that was another $20... plus $10 in shipping... a total of $82... 

it looks like a great product, but i can't see spending that much for foam... plus they said they never carried white or tan...

oh well, back to the drawing boards...


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## Grey Legion (Apr 11, 2005)

The one thing that had me worried was that open cell design, it is filter foam not stryo foam so any little poops would be sure to get trapped in the foam and also make it tough to clean.

Great product, I have used it before (come to think of it) in my Eheim HOB filters.

I like the tile idea to..


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Venustus, Swiss Tropicals never carried white or tan. I got those colors from an Ohio manufacturer who was around in the 70's and maybe 80's though most of what I got in the '80's was back stock that ended up in an auction house near me. It did not occur to me that someone would figure I got all the foam from ST since they have not been around nearly long enough. I also tried some foam from JoAnn Fabrics type places but some of it did not hold up. It all depends on what type of plastic it is made from. That is the reason the Swiss Tropicals foam is worth the price. It is specifically made for the aquarium hobby in Germany, lasting much longer and without any toxicity concerns. And I still have a few pieces of dark green but no idea where they really originated since I think I picked them up used in grab bags from local fish club auctions. There is also pond filter mat which is generally stiffer than foam. http://www.matalausa.com/cat2.html
Great choice for dividers, backgrounds, and "mattenfilter" use, but I think it would be too open to use as a substrate alternative.


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## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

i think i am gonna have to just try painting the bottom... i just won't have the actual look of sand in the tank... i will probably use the spray paint you can buy that makes what you paint look like bubbley or rough so to say...

thanks for all the advise, i appreciate the help... just don't want to pay that much for a substrate that might not stay in use forever... oh well...


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

I use a 1.5" sand bed in my 55g fry tank. No problems what so ever. If you are worried about getting paint under the brace.... cut it off! Seriously, you don't need the brace on the bottom. It is only there because it is easier and cheaper to make a zillion of one shape than it is to make a "top" with a brace and a "bottom" without. Just my 2 cents.


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## xWingman48 (Apr 8, 2008)

I use a thin sand substrate in my fry tank as well, and no problems here. I think the recommendation for a bare bottom is more for the ease of cleaning than for any real health issues for the fry. As long as you don't mind being careful when you're siphoning out for those ever so frequent water changes, then put sand in there and go the easy route.


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## avy1219 (Jan 8, 2006)

i use sand as well in my fry tanks.......no problems here


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## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

ya, i am still pondering what to do... i have some time, as i have no holding females right now...
i have sand, probably enough to do a 1" bottom, but not sure what i want to do... not sure if the reason for bare bottom is for just ease of cleaning or actually something with the fish... i wouldn't think anything with the fish, as in the wild when they are born, they are right there in the elements... so i will probably just put sand down eventually, butt still thinking about what i will do in the end...


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