# Venustus sucking surface all others fine



## tlookabill30 (Apr 1, 2013)

Hey guys,

Interesting one for you. I have recently picked up a venustus and tangerine tiger to add to my 72g and the venustus is hanging at the surface like he is short oxygen. None of the other fish are doing the same. He will also come down occasionally

Tank parameters.

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 20ppm
PH: 7.8-8
Temp: 82
Aeration in front of a verticle spray bar for FX5. One hole in the spray bar is angled up for Plenty of surface movement. 20% water changes once a week.

DIY 3d background, mortar mix and wire frame. Newly Established.... fully cycled as far as i can tell. (2.5m in)
Planted tank

Other fish: 
3 Afra
3 Demisoni
1 Tangerine Tiger
3 Petricola

Again... all other fish breathing normally.. maybe on the quick side but appear healthy, eating and not on surface...

Thoughts??


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## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

What is the size comparison like of the fish? What are the dimensions of the tank?

In any case, a venustus will be a very large fish at maturity, and will need a 6' length to swim.

It could be an aggression issue if you have just added him to the tank. Often victim fish will stay at the top of the water in hopes of avoiding trouble. This is a warning sign of underlying problems, even if you don't see the bickering.

Did you rearrange the rockwork, etc. etc. to make for a smooth transition?


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## tlookabill30 (Apr 1, 2013)

afras are largest at 2.5"
demisoni are 1" 
tiger is 1" 
venustus is 1" 
petricola range from 1" to ~4"

Its a 48" wide bowfront... it will be a few years before he needs that much space but I plan to trade up.

Havent seen any agression towards him at all actually, but obviously im not seeing the night activity. There is plenty of cover. The demis and afras are typically chasing each other and leave the open waters alone. Your comment about the warning sign is the reason for the post. He is starting to share his time surface to normal. Maybe he is just a bit spooked. You can see the parameters... I dont have any measurable issues. Turned up the aeration a little just in case.

http://tinypic.com/r/bg5qvb/5


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

A fish at the surface is not there by desire, either he is sucking air or the others are intimidating him somehow. Even when hiding places are available, a harassed fish will lurk just under the surface.

If there are no injuries (fins, scales) and he is eating, you can see how things go.

I would not expect a mix of demasoni in a group and haps or peacocks to work unless the haps/peacocks were fully mature and the demasoni are juveniles. Also if you have more than one demasoni, you are better off having more than 12 to manage aggression.

You could also lower your temp to 78...oxygenation would be better at a lower temperature, aggression may be lower and you will not be accelerating the life span of your fish with the higher temps.


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## tlookabill30 (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks for your input, guys.

No injuries so far and he is eating. No major aggression at all and I have kept Haps with Mbuna before with no problems. The Demisoni tend to only chase each other but not feverishly. I am not sure if you saw the pic or not but there are 8 caves and lots of jungle for coverage. Even when the fish get into an aggression mode for a min, they typically only chase around a corner and then leave it be. But I have yet to see any of the mbuna chase the haps at all... not even a short spurt.

I would actually prefer to lower the temp, but I am in Socal and its been 105 out lately... my ac unit struggles to keep the apt at 75-78 during the day. With the add of the lamps which need to be on for the plants, its 80-82 typically. Lamp is already raised off the tank to keep the heat down and I am running an hour siesta mid day. Short of buying a chiller, its a tough one.

He has been back off the surface most of today.. just thought it was strange the way that he was positioning... didnt look like normal aggression stress pose.. he was angled with his lips at the surface. If you guys cant think of any other chems that i need to check... it is probably just spooked. Seems to be getting better.

Weirdly enough... most of today all of the fish listed less the cats have been schooling on one side of the tank in the water current and really havent been showing any aggression at all. I have never seen that before and I have kept africans, haps and mbuna for 15 years or so now.

I will keep you posted.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

In an overstocked tank surface movement can be insufficient to provide adequate aeration - especially at elevated temperatures. Ad and airstone, or better yet, a venturi valve - in front of a separate power head or as outlet for your FX5. That should make a significant difference for the long term well being of your fish. You don't want to ignore this kind of sign of oxygen being in short supply.


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## tlookabill30 (Apr 1, 2013)

Hi Fmueller,

Thanks for the feedback. I have exactly that. An airstone infront of the vertical spray bar. I initially had it turned down as I felt that the surface movement was sufficient, though it was not off, in order to keep from expelling all of the CO2 for the plants, especially with the PH where it is. I turned it up quite a bit today and that seems to have helped..... found it quite strange that only 1 of my fish was up there though. So I am still not sure if its O2 or that he was spooked. I will leave the air up for a while.. If I lose a plant or two, oh well.


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## tlookabill30 (Apr 1, 2013)

I am not sure that I would consider this tank overstocked by any means though, given the typical quantity in an african tank... especially at the size that they are now.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

All my tanks use either venturi valves (Eheim diffusor) or Durso drain pipes. So they are blasted with air, and I am sure oxygen is always at saturation levels. I have never observed adverse effects on the plants from this. All my tanks are low-tech planted. Glad to hear that cranking up the air from the airstone helped :thumb:

Fish can be affected by oxygen shortages in very different ways, and not always in ways we expect. For example my 125G Tropheus tank has 28 adult Kaiser Moorii plus an odd assortment of other Tanganyikans, some of which probably shouldn't really be in a Tropheus tank. These are 2 Paracyps, 2 L. ornatipinnis, a colony of similis, 6 N. caudopunctatus, and a breeding colony of BN plecos. About a year ago my filter blocked up, and I found the tank with the tropheus gasping for air at the surface. Seeing now notoriously touchy Tropheus are, I already saw myself loosing the entire colony, because they were really gasping badly and looked to be in a sorry state. However, after a water change and a filter cleaning, all Tropheus made a quick turnaround as did most of the other fish, BUT I lost 5 of 6 Caudopunctatus! Those would have been just about the last fish in the tank I would have expected to die first from oxygen shortness, but that's what happened!

"Overstocked" is kind of a funny term. An African cichlid tank with Tropheus, Mbuna, or all male Malawi cichlids is supposed to be overstocked to spread out aggression. I guess in this case it wouldn't actually be overstocked, but properly stocked, but we still call it overstocked :lol:


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