# Sump vs Canister vs Both



## JimInAugusta (Mar 16, 2007)

I have been using the search function to investigate canister filters. My drilled 90 has a big sump. I use a 50 micron sheet as a prefilter over the sump where the water dumps in. I change this every few days when it gets dirty. Dirty might be an understatement. Dirt in depth would be more accurate. Mbuna are aquatic pigs.

When switching this system over to the more demanding Tanganyikans should I add a canister? Is this overkill? Do you use the washable sheets as a mechanical stage of filtration in your sump? They really seem to help polish the water.


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## ccrider (Sep 5, 2008)

i'm using a fluval 404 on my 135 in addition to my sump. the 404 has sponges and biomedia in it only, the sponges get filthy so it does help.i use socks on the drain for the sump- they clog in about 2-3 days so i know what you mean about the dirt.i've been thinking of more filtration in the sump and eliminating the 404 myself- where i have it behind the tank is hard to get to.my thoughts are to add a bigger return pump and more mechanical filtratiom to the sump.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

In my humble opinion a sump system can do all the filtration you need and then some. As much as I like canister filters for all setups where I can't have or can't be bothered with a sump, adding one to a setup that already has a sump is total overkill!

Micron filter bags are fantastic for mechanical and biological filtration. I am using them as part of the DIY sump system of my 240G. The bags are not supposed to look clean, however. When they turn brown and look terrible, that's when they have just established full biofiltration capacity and are running at the height of their capabilities. If you are washing them every few days, you are using them for mechanical filtration only. Your beneficial bacteria must have settled elsewhere, because on the bags they get destroyed every few days. I would encourage you to leave the bags alone for a couple of months before you clean them. In my 240G I am cleaning the sumps including the bags only twice per year - once in Spring and once in Fall. When I clean the bags they have at least an inch of solid brown sludge on the bottom, but the water quality in my tanks is superb regardless. My tank is a Tanganyikan community setup and somewhat overstocked, but due to the water quality I have had virtually no fish losses in about 3 years. If fish suffer a bite wound or scrape themselves on a rock I am always amazed how quickly they recover in that tank. Of course I am always keeping well on top of water changes due to an automatic water change system :thumb:

Frank









_Micronfilter bags sumbmerged in my sump. They are comparatively clean in that picture_ 









_I am trying to keep the tank looking good, not the sump  _


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## JimInAugusta (Mar 16, 2007)

The water is so clear in the tank shot it almost looks like you photo shopped the fish into an empty tank.

Just to clarify I am running bio balls type media in my sump. If there is something better I am very open to trying something else. The sheet of 50 micron filter material is just to catch the gross volume of yuck that flows down to the sump. The water falls down the pipe onto the top of the bio filter chamber. I place a micron sheet on top of the bio material as a prefilter. There is enough wiggle room that not all of the gross waste is captured but much of it is. Without it I find I have a suspension of particulate matter in the tank within about 48 hrs of a water change. My mbuna tank is pretty heavily stocked and well fed without going into the obese zone.

I have been keeping fish for forty years. But this has led to a settling in and a sense of stagnation. My skills are no longer current concerning equipment. Reefing has really driven this home. Can you talk a little bit about the way you use filter bags? I have never heard of them.


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## ccrider (Sep 5, 2008)

when the filter bags turn brown, the water can no longer penetrate the material.the water will actually come out the top of the bag unless i change it, maybe my sock material is too fine?


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

You are ahead of me, since I have been in the hobby only for about 30 years 

Forums like these allow you to catch up on new developments quickly. I can't believe how many new things I have learned since joining up here a few years ago! www.fmueller.com has lots of info about my private setups - maybe a little too much, because it's become quite difficult for people to find what they are looking for. There is a page about the micro filter bags in particular, as well as a page that describes the whole filtration system of that tank. Feel free to email me with specific questions. I built that whole system according to suggestions from Brad Newton, who used to be a moderator here back in the days 

Frank


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## fishyfishyfishy (Dec 24, 2005)

On my 450g I have a 2 pump system. One for the return line which all passes through a 114 watt UV.

The other pump is hooked up to a dual micron polishing canister similar to the Ocean Clear. Water is pulled from the sump and pumped right back into the sump. This keeps a sump full of polished water for the main pump to pull from. It has the added benefit of keeping the sump clean too as well as keeping water circulated in the sump, which can be a problem.


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## JimInAugusta (Mar 16, 2007)

I started to peruse your site. This one line hooked me, "View into the smaller side of the tank along the 8′ axis." Lulz! BTW the wife said, "No!" when I asked if I too could have such a tank.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

JimInAugusta said:


> BTW the wife said, "No!" when I asked if I too could have such a tank.


Life is all about compromises! I started building a 750G L-shaped plywood tank in the basement. My wife freaked, and we settled on a 240G 8'-tank in the living room - everybody is happy :lol:









_My 'little' 240G :wink: _


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## jzyjack (Dec 31, 2008)

Nice set-up and really cute dog! :thumb:


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## k2damax (Jan 21, 2009)

Lol big tank small tv ! But who know's you could be watching fish tv


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## mok3t (Nov 28, 2008)

I will be running a 45gal sump and 2 fluval canister filters on my 112gal tank when its up and going. Sump will be sponges and pot scrubbers, canisters will be mostly for water clarity, so ultra fine floss type stuff and carbon


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