# 3M color quartz



## angelover98

Guys, Can you tell me where I can buy the 3M quartz?
Is it OK for tanks, cost, colors, cleaning?
Thanks :-?


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## pastarican

Fmueller (one of the many people here) uses it. He told me that he had to contact 3M to find a distribution center. He said he tried calling pool places but they never heard of it. As far as cost, he told me it was less than half of Tahitian Moon Sand and completely safe. 3M's website says that the ColorQuartz is quartz crystal with ceramic coating. I would suggest you start at the source. I'm looking for it myself. What color are looking for...could it be....black?


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## psnco

I unearthed the stuff at a local sandblasting/contractor store. Call 3M to find a dealer. The stuff is about $18/bag. My sand was basically a fine sugar sand variety. I've had no deaths in my tank and have been using it for 2 months or so in my 125 gallon.


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## Bikinguy

Hi All,

I sent a private message to Fmueller after I saw a post in which he used the 3M product.

He did say he used the T grade which is a bigger grit than the S grade.

Bikinguy


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## pastarican

It seems like all of a sudden people are wanting this stuff! By the way, $18 for how much (pound wise)?


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## angelover98

Thanks guys. I'll do some research as well and post what I learn also


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## psnco

It was $18 per 50lbs bag. The fish love it. Since moving them into the sand over a month ago, I've had one fish die from unknown causes. The jewels LOVE this stuff as do my other malawi cichlids. I used about 2" across the bottom and they have created their own pits and mounds.

If you mix the black with another color in a 2/3 black to 1/3 color mix, it will overtake the black. I'll see if the wife can post pics of our 125gal with it. I have nicknamed the take, "The 125 gallon from Mars". We mixed thier red and black together and used red lava rock. The red matches the lava rock nearly perfect and since I overdid the red, it looks like the planet Mars. If you use any fake plants, I'd silicone them to the bottom. We didn't and the fish decided they liked all the plants in a different location, no matter if we moved them back or not.

I got the finer grade. It doesn't cloud the water and settles very quickly. I had a AC 500 go out and I haven't investigated the reason yet. It may have been the sand, but the other AC 500 is working fine and is nice and quiet.

Also, I found the black is probably a "flatter/duller black than the other black sands, but I also only have two 36" single strip lights to light my aquarium.


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## fmueller

I only just found this thread, and haven't had the time to read all previous posts, but here is my experience with 3M Color Quartz.

I found Tahitian Moon Sand outrageously expensive, and since the Black Beauty is essentially a waste product, you just don't know what you are getting. Maybe my background in chemistry makes me over-careful, but I am not convinced that some batch of it couldn't leach toxins into the water. Even a trace of heavy metal salts could kill off your fish in no time.

I found the Color Quartz to be a perfect solution - less than half the cost of Tahitian Moon Sand, and a carefully engineered product that's guaranteed to be chemically inert. Not even regular sand offers the latter!

Following the advice of others on this forum, I rang a raft of pool and tile shops in my area, but none of them had ever heard of 3M Color Quartz. I ended up calling 3M at 1-800-447-2914 (the phone number is on their web site burried in the FAQ about Color Quartz at http://authoring.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-125 ... view.jhtml). I was very lucky in that the 3M distributor of Color Quartz for 5 States happens to be located only about 30min drive from my home, and I bought the Color Quartz directly from them. Unfortunately they charged $22 for a 50 pound bag of black T-grade Color Quartz, which is slighly more than people have paid elsewhere in the US, but I still found it well worth the money.

For those of you in or around NE Ohio, the distributor is N.T. Ruddock Company, 26123 Broadway Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio 44146, Tel: (440) 439-4976, Fax: (440) 439-8728). Either 3M (anywhere in the US) or this distributor (around NE Ohio) should be able to point you towards a store where you can buy the stuff.

When I bought it, I also saw the S-grade Color Quartz, which is finer grained and has rounder granules. The T-grade looks and behaves like sand, I definetely would not call it gravel, but it is a comparatively coarse sand - not sharp though. The S-grade is very fine, more like a powder, and feels very very smooth, due to the round particles. For pool applications, I believe they use S-grade if you want a very smooth surface. The T-grade is used where you want a bit of grip; eg on stairs. Both would probably work well as substrate, but I thought the T grade would look more natural - if that's possible with a black substrate.

The 3M distributor where I bought the stuff had a sample box with little test tubes full of different types of Color Quartz in all the different colors. They also had a similar product for roofing applications that was just a notch coarser than T-grade. I forgot the name, but it would probably act like a very very fine gravel. You might want to try and find a store in your area that has the stuff and check it out yourself. That's the only way you can find out which of the different options you prefer.


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## pastarican

I called 3M yesterday, and the girl there told me that the nearest ones by me (Central Ohio) is in Illinois and Kentucky. She told me they ship, but after the shipping charges are added, I might as well get Tahitian Moon...I've tried tile manufacturers (someone here said they tried tile places) but no dice. Sandy (at 3M) said that it isn't available retail wise, so would a pool mfr. be a good place to check?


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## silkpoet

I would suggest being a little careful. Glass is very hard, harder than steel in fact (5.5 for glass vs. 5.0 for steel on Moe's Hardness scale) HOWEVER!!!!! Quartz is 8 on hardness, and WILL scratch your glass or acryllic tank with a vengance if you are not very careful!

Good luck! It sounds like it would look awesome!


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## fmueller

silkpoet - if you have that hardness skale handy, could you look up how silicate fares? I bet it would be very similar to quartz


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## pastarican

Still no luck in finding any...I contacted the place fmueller had gotten his. They told me that there are no dealers/distributors of crystalquartz in Central Ohio. I'm going to try a few more places around here (Columbus) and maybe I'll get lucky.


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## Tuckernotis

I was wondering why 3M hasn't gotten the message that they are missing out on a good market. You'd think they'd want our money. I couldn't even get any of the local pool builders to get any. Seems no one is interesting in retailing this stuff. I'm having to get mine trucked in from Houston. Should be here tomorrow  . Fortunately it's hitching a ride on a shipment coming in for my husband's business.


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## fmueller

> I was wondering why 3M hasn't gotten the message that they are missing out on a good market.


Can you imagine how much money they could make if they started to package their Color Quartz in smaller bags and sold it through the large pet store chains? Could be millions of $ for 3M. Unfortunately I haven't figured out a way to progress this issue in a way that part of this money would come my way ;-)


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## Tuckernotis

Seems like a business 101 duh to me too :? . Maybe with the cost of shipping and packaging, it would be more expensive than Tahitian Moon. It's like rocks. You guys in Colorado go down to the river and pick some up. I have to pay .46 a pound because of the cost to get it here.


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## pastarican

Kinda funny that you should have to pay for rock...They can't give the stuff away up here. I guess everybody has something that they take for granted in their own part of the world...I finally heard back from NT Ruddock. It's $21 for S grade, and $25 for T-grade. For an additional $5, it comes in a bucket. It only gets sold in 50lb bags, so I suppose I could do both of my tanks. Hmmm.........I would like to see photos of the stuff in tanks, just so I can make my final decision on this.


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## Tuckernotis

Here are a few threads with photos.

http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=45386
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=43880


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## Tuckernotis

Got my two bags of black CQ in. Guess my weekend will be spent washing sand. At least it's suppose to be hot this weekend.


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## psnco

I've said this in other posts..............

Wear latex gloves when you wash the sand, unless you like coal black colored hands!


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## Tuckernotis

Thanks for the warning.

BTW, I posted a question in the Equipment section about what lighting to sue with this substrate. Hope some of you that have CQ will chime in. It won't reflect light like sand so this may be a tough one.


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## fmueller

> I finally heard back from NT Ruddock. It's $21 for S grade, and $25 for T-grade.


Wow - I paid $22 for the T-grade a few weeks ago, and I thought that was expensive because everybody else claims to have gotten it for $18 (not from Ruddock though). Seems they charge whatever they feel like on a particular day :?


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## pastarican

I still think that its cheaper than Tahitian Moon...I think I will be getting it, but right now, we're in the process of selling our house...I'm not about to set up a tank to take it apart again. So, I've gotta wait til June/July to get it. Now here is the REALLY tough part....West Africans or South American Dwarfs? :lol:


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## CrazyCichlid

Few questions.....

Does anyone know where i could purchase the 3M Color Quartz in the nyc are

Does the substrate increase pH...if not how are all of you guys using this stuff keeping a high pH...

thanks
cc

side question...does home depot sand increase pH????


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## pastarican

You could try either contacting 3m, and they could get you in touch with someone or you could try this place, NT Ruddock. They're based out of Cleveland and distribute to 5 states, I just don't know which 5. Their website is ntruddock.com (sorry, I'm admittedly technologically inept and unable to make it a link.) 

As far as raising pH, fmueller has said that the coating is chemically inert, and I would guess from that statement that the crystalquartz won't affect pH. Most likely everyone is using some sort of buffering salts.


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## vollogg

here is my new tank with the 3m black t grade


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## canadiancray

Wow its expensive in the US. I just bought two 50lbs bags for $10.00CDN each.


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## mwg

In the UK 3M claim they don't make this product! They tried fobbing me off with 'alternative products' which were completely useless suggestions. I described it in detail in my follow up email, and the reply came back "sorry, 3M don't make such a product" In exasperation I emailed a photo of the bag I'd seen on a previous tank setup forum post, and said "this is what I want". Three weeks later and still no reply to that email....Perhaps they can't be bothered. I say they don't deserve our business!


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## kotr

I emailed 3m and got an emaeil back within 24 hours with a document attached that listed the various suppliers on the east coast, so if you ask them for supplier locations from their website they can get back at your really fast. One question though, if my fish aren't in the tank yet and i need to clean the colorquartz, and i have one of those python clean n fills, could i just dump in the colorquartz into the water and repeatedly suck out the much with the python instead of cleaning repeatedly with buckets?


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## Tuckernotis

You would have to syphon your water dozens of times to get it where you could even see the fish. This is some dirty stuff. I just filled my 100 gal w/ water and the water came clean within the hour, barely any discoloration at all. I have the black CQ and washed it for about an hour. It was worth it. I love the stuff. Will be getting some phots up soon.

BTW, I have some left over Tahitian Moon sand that I bought a while back. In comparing the Tahitian Moon and the Color Quartz, I can't tell the difference. I'll get a close-up shot of the both of them and post it soon too. Could it be the whoever markets the Tahitian Moon is just re-packaging 3M Color Quartz? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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## FeatherfinFan

vollogg, nice pics of your tank, that 3M substrate looks great!



> Could it be the whoever markets the Tahitian Moon is just re-packaging 3M Color Quartz? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Very interesting question Tucker, Hmmmm, got me thinking


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## vollogg

Be sure to wear rubber gloves when washing the "sand" and be patient doing it.


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## Shaun106

Does 3m have a natural looking dark tan color?I was looking on the links provided and as far as I can tell by the color chart it jumps from rose tan to light tan.I've been using pool filter sand for a few years and I'm reall tired of the whiteness of it(doesn't hide poo well at all).I was thinking of mixing 3M natural colored "T" grade(if there is one) and the light and dark grey colors they have.But which one is considered the natural dark tan :?:


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## ShadowDragon

I finally found it....after looking for weeks I found a site that ships it out 

http://www.hovertrowel.com/aggregates.html

Black $21.88 for T grade and there number is:

Order Aggregates By Calling Us At: *610-856-1961*


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## spieg

Hey ShadowDragon,

Have you ordered from them yet? If so, are the shipping charges reasonable?


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## ShadowDragon

Well I called them and they stated that they no longer ship 50lbs bags :x , but their web site still shows it :x

But....I found a supplier in MN : Sterling Supply 612-331-5125

21.88 black T grade and around 24.00 shipping and should be here this week 

It's not local....but in ND anything with in 1000 miles *IS* local


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## psnco

Sterling Supply is great!

I buy all my sands from them. I've gotten great deals on 3M colorquartz (I was the one who initially stumbled on this product while buying my Red Flint sand from them.) They also have a Unimin sand, 50lbs for $6-7 that is near white. Red Flint sand and gravel is like $6/100lbs.


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## ShadowDragon

My 3M Black T grade arrived today

It only took two days to get here and shipping was just $20. So all in all it's only cost me $45.00 to get 50lbs shipped 8)


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## phill

canadiancray said:


> Wow its expensive in the US. I just bought two 50lbs bags for $10.00CDN each.


Curious exactly where you bought the 3M ?


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## Ti

Tuckernotis said:


> You would have to syphon your water dozens of times to get it where you could even see the fish. This is some dirty stuff. I just filled my 100 gal w/ water and the water came clean within the hour, barely any discoloration at all. I have the black CQ and washed it for about an hour. It was worth it. I love the stuff. Will be getting some phots up soon.
> 
> BTW, I have some left over Tahitian Moon sand that I bought a while back. In comparing the Tahitian Moon and the Color Quartz, I can't tell the difference. I'll get a close-up shot of the both of them and post it soon too. Could it be the whoever markets the Tahitian Moon is just re-packaging 3M Color Quartz? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


I'm about to get some black sand. so are the two the same?
Can you provide pics?


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## Tuckernotis

I forgot all about taking the pictures. I'll try to do that tonight. Does anyone know exactly what Tahitian Moon is suppose to be made off? Natural black sand, slag, CQ?


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## Chaz

Ok I just received my shippment of sand in today. Purchased it from National Pool Tile (214)366-4009 here in Texas. It was 14.99 for a 50lbs. bag! Shipping was 13.43 for Ups next day. I though this was a really great price and thought would share it with all of you.


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## Chaz

Oh and it was 3m colorquartz Black S grade


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## Guest

I am happy with my black beauty and didn't have to rinse it nearly as much. It is cheaper than 3m, well mine was free but it is still cheaper, it is easy to clean, and easy to find. I have had no problems after two months why does it have such a bad rap?


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## Tuckernotis

Black beauty is made from slag. That means it can contain a large amount of heavy metals and other toxic chemicals/ This doesn't necessarily mean they will contaminate your water but it also doesn't mean it won't. Depends on the particular batch of material you have.


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## in_flight

> Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:09 pm Post subject:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Wow its expensive in the US. I just bought two 50lbs bags for $10.00CDN each.


where did u get it i am in toronto and would like to buy a bag


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## CelticDragon

Afer abit of seaching I have a data fact sheet on 3m Color Quartz.

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs ... Y_zVooooN-

Celtic Dragon


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## CelticDragon

I just switched to using Black Color Quartz.....I will start a new thread, with pictures, once I have completed resetting up my tank. But so far bar from the long washing time it is going very well......


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## CelticDragon

Well I have just done my first large scale cleaning/vacuuming of the color quartz...and it exceeded my expectations. Due to that it is heavier than normal sand, I was able to vacuum it very much like you do with gravel, I had virtually no substrate being sucked up through my gravel cleaner. I will say this will make cleaning and churning the substrate very easy.

Celtic Dragon


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## WarDaddy

I am curious about getting a black color, and I want to use the gravel as a source of filtration. I want to go reverse flow to keep a water flow while slowing the accumulation of stuff under the grates.

Is the 3m product course enough to use like this?

Thanks,

Bryan


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## CelticDragon

Bryan,

If you mean you are going to set a Under Gravel Filter, Then Even if you use the 'T" grade which is larger I would not suggest it.....I don't see it floating up or away (the stuff is heavy for substrate) But I don't think there will be the needed empty space needed between each crystal and I would be concerned about it falling/clogging the UGF plates, which would starve the bacteria and kill it.

But as a substrate It is great.......

IMHO I would not use an UGF, I have seen much better results with canister and HOB filters.


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## psnco

Wow! I haven't posted in months due to my upcoming deployment with the Army. I originally unearthed this product. Glad to see there are many who have tried the 3M colorquartz and like it for the looks and the price.


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## MrPleco

For those having trouble finding colorquartz 3M sent me a list of their distributers for their eastern region. Its kinda long, hope it lets me post it all. If not drop me an email and I'll send it to ya. It ends with Wisconson.

Connecticut 
Phoenix Products
55 Container Drive
Terryville, CT 06786
800-928-7665 
Florida 
Coastal Construction Products
1901 Service Street
Jacksonville, FL 32207
904-398-7171

Coastal Construction Products
660 N. W. 85th Street
Miami, FL 33150
305-757-2121

Coastal Construction Products
1095 Business Lane
Naples, FL 34110
239-513-0633

Coastal Construction Products
3330 W. 45th Street
West Palm Beach, FL 33407
561-478-2000

Coastal Construction Products
4901 W. Grace Street
Tampa, FL 32607
813-289-8949

Coastal Construction Products
4605 L. B. McLeod Road, Suite 900
Orlando, FL 32811
407-849-1717

Coastal Construction Products
3455 N. Alcaniz Street
Pensacola, FL 32503
850-432-7155

Gulf Coast Chemical
101 Wayne Place
Tampa, FL 33619
813-623-5471

Georgia 
Georgia Construction Products
4640 Granite Drive
Tucker, GA 30084
770-491-9100
[email protected]

National Pool Tile
3105-C Gateway Drive
Norcross, GA 30071
770-368-8440

Supreme Coating Inc.
3434 Browns Mill Road
Atlanta, GA 30354
404-305-8555
[email protected] 
Illinois 
AGSCO
160 West Hintz Road
Wheeling, IL 60090-5755 
847-520-4455

Fairmount Custom Products
3624 East 2351st Road
Serena, IL 60549
815-792-8750 
Louisiana 
Pool Corp.
109 Northpark Boulevard
4th Floor
Covington, LA 70433
Kentucky 
Southern Sealants Distribution, Inc. 
2700 Holloway Road, Unit #102
Louisville, KY 40299
502-966-5412 
Maryland 
Brodsky & Associates
812 West Patapsco Avenue
Suite M
Baltimore, MD 21230
410-303-7100
[email protected]

Metro Sealant & Waterproofing
1041 West Nursery Road
Linthicum, MD 21090
410-789-7400 
Minnesota 
Sterling Supply
459 Harding Street NE
Minneapolis, MN 55413
612-331-5125 
Mississippi 
GraniTite, Inc.
1113 Hwy. 72 East, #130
Corinth, MS 38834
662-284-9891

New Jersey 
AGSCO
621 Route 46
Hasbrouck Heights, NJ 07604
201-393-0300 
Mid Atlantic
220 Boswell Road
Marlton, NJ 08053
856-988-6374 
North Carolina 
N.T. Ruddock
1805 Center Park Drive
Charlotte, NC 28217
800-426-4644 
[email protected] 
[email protected]

Quality Construction Products, Inc.
6925 Old Wake Forest Road
Raleigh, NC 27616
919-862-0026 
Ohio 
N.T. Ruddock
26123 Broadway
Cleveland, OH 44146
440-439-4976 
Philadelphia 
Concrete Services
Elm & Walnut Street
Conshohocken, PA 19428
610-825-1554

National Pool Tile
2880 Bergey Road
Suite E
Hatfield, PA 19440
215-997-7375 
Virginia 
Hatchik Supply Company
5260 Port Royal Road
Springfield, VA 22151
703-321-7699

Metro Sealant & Waterproofing
7623B Fullerton Road
Springfield, VA 22153
703-912-4915 
Wisconsin 
MKM Distribution
1049 Ashwaubenon Street
Green Bay, WI 54304
920-336-7332


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## J. DiZzLe

Trying desperately to get some up here in Toronto. Anyone know of any distributors in Ontario? Shipping a 50lb bag over here would be VERY costly. Any help\suggestions greatly appreciated by me, and my fish. :wink:


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## MrPleco

Hey Dizzle try contacting 3M at this link http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-125/cFilkFR/view.jhtml they should get back to you pretty quickly. I sent 'em an email on a saturday and got a response the following Monday. Good Luck. I decided to go with regular black gravel. 50lbs was too much for me to use.


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## jd_7655

Can anyone tell me what this stuff is used for and what type of company would cary this stuff in the phone book.


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## CelticDragon

This product is mainly used in Pool and non-skid flooring...it is mixed with either pool or concrete floor paint/sealer.

Like stated above, contact 3m rep. they will let you know where to get it in your area.


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## enjoyingapint

Here is a reply I received a couple of months ago from 3M.



> Thank you for contacting 3M Canada.
> 
> 3M(TM) Colorquartz(TM) products are available exclusively through the
> following distributor in Ontario:
> 
> - Durock at 1-888-238-6345


Their website is http://www.durock.com.


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## scubaguy0177

I went to a local place last night to pick up a 50 lb bag of T-grade black, when I had called earlier, the guy said the price was $23.33 per bag. No big deal, that is waaaaaaaay cheaper than the black sand my LFS sells ($8 for a 5lb bag). So I go down there to pick it up, money ready to go, and he just gave it to me...FOR FREE. WOOHOO!!!!


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## Psykik

scubaguy0177 said:


> So I go down there to pick it up, money ready to go, and he just gave it to me...FOR FREE. WOOHOO!!!!


That is awesome!!!
Maybe you could send him a "Thank You" note with a picture of your tank once it is all done.

Rob


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## Psykik

The 3M Color Quartz has gained favor as a much less expensive substitute for the Tahitian Moon Sand. Am I correct to assume that the Tahitian Moon Sand does not have buffering qualities and therefore has no inherent advantage over the use of the Color Quartz?

Thanks,
Rob


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## scuba_guy

I am also a user of the Black Beauty sand for well over 2 years now, and have yet to have a problem with it. Has anyone actually had a bad experience with it or is this just a "possibility" that it could have negative effects? Pretty much anything has the possibility of being bad in one way or another. And I got an 80 lb bag of that here for $12. CDN. retail.


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## CelticDragon

3m Color Quartz is a inert ceramic coated quartz crystal.....and does not leach or give off anything into the water, so it does not add any buffering to the tank water.

Celtic Dragon


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## Psykik

CelticDragon said:


> 3m Color Quartz is a inert ceramic coated quartz crystal.....and does not leach or give off anything into the water, so it does not add any buffering to the tank water.
> 
> Celtic Dragon


Thanks CD-
I know that 3M Color Quartz is inert and is a very inexpensive and attractive substitute for those desiring the look of Tahitian Moon Sand.

My curiosity is whether or not the Tahitian Moon Sand offered attributes (i.e. buffering, etc.) that would make it more desirable to use (albeit at a much more expensive cost) for an African Cichlid aquarium. If the Tahitian Moon Sand does not offer such qualities, and itself is inert, then the choice of 3M Color Quartz seems even more practical to me.


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## CelticDragon

Sorry about that I misunderstood, from Caribsea's website:

http://www.carib-sea.com/catpage5.htm

the stuff does not affect PH so my guess is that it does not have any special propties.

Celtic Dragon


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## scubaguy0177

> One of the most popular decorative sands, Tahitian Moon black sand is a great way to accent your brightly colored tropical fish. Can be used in fresh or saltwater. Will not affect pH.


That is a quote from the Carib-Sea website.


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## Psykik

scubaguy0177 said:


> One of the most popular decorative sands, Tahitian Moon black sand is a great way to accent your brightly colored tropical fish. Can be used in fresh or saltwater. Will not affect pH.
> 
> 
> 
> That is a quote from the Carib-Sea website.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
So it appears that for the purposes of an African Cichlid tank, the Tahitian Moon Sand offers no specific advantages other than aesthetic aspects.


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## MonaF

I am a novice have my first 12 gallon tank with 2 cherry barbs, 1 lemon barb and two small bottom feeders so far. Iused large gravel, but do not like it.

Question: will the quartz sratch my acrylic tank? I would like to use a finer grained substance like sand and use much less inch wise.

Please respond. I would like to use black or a light neutral color. I have a black background with a rock formation and some colorful plants. My fish are colorful as well. Thanks. Mona


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## Tommy J

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but quartz can scratch an acrylic tank. I don't have one but I've been told that almost anything can scratch acrylic. Good luck!


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## Tommy J

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but quartz can scratch an acrylic tank. I don't have one but I've been told that almost anything can scratch acrylic. Good luck!


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## Tommy J

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but quartz can scratch an acrylic tank. I don't have one but I've been told that almost anything can scratch acrylic. Good luck!


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## CelticDragon

Yes Color Quartz can scratch an acrylic tank...it is quartz and is harder than most sand. but sand will scratch the tank as well...you just have to take care with both substrates to make sure when you clean it that no grains get between the acrylic and your cleaning device

Celtic Dragon


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## yhbae

canadiancray said:


> Wow its expensive in the US. I just bought two 50lbs bags for $10.00CDN each.


Where did you buy it from??? (Sorry for digging up an old message...  )


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## ScubaSteve

Thanks for posting that full list of suppliers of the 3M Colorquartz MrPleco!!! From the list I found a supplier 2 miles from my house!! Going this afternoon to check it out.


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## in_flight

tried to pm canadian cray but no reply, i think he's bs'ing $10CDN per bag, cheapest i found was $30/bag of 50lbs


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## FeatherfinFan

Here's the Western region suppliers too 
BTW, they weren't kidding, the 3M guys do a great job of replying ASAP to your emails 

Western Region Distributors
3M Sales Representative - Bill Brown - 800-924-0347


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## N8MAN1068

their black sand isn't really black? :-?


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## knuckles

N8MAN1068 - Do you mean 3M's black colorquartz? Mine is definitely black. I love it.


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## CelticDragon

Agreed, Mine is very black...

and I love it as well


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## N8MAN1068

hm.
it looks like what they list on their website as black, isn't really black at all... :?


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## CelticDragon

What website are you looking at?


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## FeatherfinFan

I noticed on the 3M site 
http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-125/uzRkES/view.jhtml
The entire color list is only available in the S (fine) grade and only the following colors: Black, Blue, Cayman Green, Red & White are available in the T (coarse) grade. I'm interested in the Grey and Smoke colors and just wondered if those that have the S grade could comment on just how fine it really is. I currently use a fine silica/blasting sand so I'm hoping it's no finer than that  Thanks!


----------



## Fin

FeatherfinFan said:


> I noticed on the 3M site
> http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-125/uzRkES/view.jhtml
> The entire color list is only available in the S (fine) grade and only the following colors: Black, Blue, Cayman Green, Red & White are available in the T (coarse) grade. I'm interested in the Grey and Smoke colors and just wondered if those that have the S grade could comment on just how fine it really is. I currently use a fine silica/blasting sand so I'm hoping it's no finer than that  Thanks!


FeatherfinFan just so that you know you can request a sample of the 3M color quartz .In the sample you will get all the colors for the S-Grade and also the T-Grade. I haven't ordered any for my tanks yet but when i do it will be the T-Grade i think that the S-Grade is to fine .The smoke S-Grade is grey , and the grey S-Grade looks almost like a light green to me .


----------



## FeatherfinFan

Thanks for the quick reply, I rec'd their product pamphlet through the mail a couple weeks ago but not any samples. I'll just get to Vegas and see the product firsthand now 

I wish they had all the colors available in the coarse grade


----------



## Demasoni.com

Very interesting thread.

I learned a few things. That black aggregate sounds pretty cool for the price of about 40 cents per pound. I will have to go and take a look at the T_grade material myself.

I think that part of the problem with the high priced sand is in part the shipping cost to the LFS but more so I think it is the 400_to_500_% markup that most any type of retail stores do on thier product lines.

I will definitely check out this product.

Demasoni.com


----------



## FeatherfinFan

Just got back from Vegas (no not a big winner, but helped w/ their fountain/volcano fund) and picked up 250 pounds of S Grade "smoke" colorquartz. I found the prices were different depending on what color was chosen, the S Grade ranged from 16-19 dollars and the T Grade from 18-22 per bag. I got it for 16.35 per 50lb bag and the guy gave me an extra sack~the bags were stored outside so the sacks were in rough shape, some leaking, etc. but got it all home w/ little trouble  I checked out both grades and they're very different, the T grade is more irregular and angular, and the S grade is like mini ball-bearings. I chose the S grade because I happened to really like the grey look of the smoke and it's not available in the T grade. I'll post some pics once I get it washed and installed


----------



## Fin

Right on FeatherfinFan I can't wait to see the pictures 8)

I still can't decide if i'm going to buy the S grade or the T grade for my Frontosa tank .What are you housing in this new tank that your setting up the S grade :?:

I would like to know how this S grade settles in the water :?:


----------



## FeatherfinFan

I rinsed the S Grade just a little to see how dirty it is and how it settles, seems to be very similar to my silica sand although it settles quite a bit faster. Like others have mentioned it's a bit heavier than sand so that aids in settling. One great advantage that I've noticed is it doesn't clump together as easy as sand does. If they had the smoke in both grades I think I'd still go w/ the S grade, I really like the uniformity and the "feel" of the sand~I think it'll also be a good choice for sandsifters as the grains are round and very smooth  I'll keep you posted w/ pics later in the week (I hope).


> I still can't decide if i'm going to buy the S grade or the T grade for my Frontosa tank .What are you housing in this new tank that your setting up the S grade


I'm housing Tropheus, and it's going in two tanks~a 190 & 110.

Keep in mind the T Grade is only available in four colors, the S is available in all colors


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## Fin

I guess the biggest reason i'm caught between making a decision between the T grade and the S grade is that i'm going to set this up in my Frontosa tank. I have a couple of Fronts that are quite the diggers and i'm lucky so far that they haven't spit near the intakes of my filters .Even the sudden bursts of energy that the Frontosa can do i'm sure that it would stir things up .Maybe i should just order both LMAO :roll: :lol:

Another concern would be cleaning i'm sure it would be the same as other sand cleaning while just hovering the Python just high enough to vacuum the waste

Hurry up and post some pictures FeatherfinFan  :wink:


----------



## FeatherfinFan

OK, here's some pics of the "smoke" S Grade colorquartz, it looks about like the color of cement when dry and even wet (out of the tank). In the tank it looks just as these pics show~almost snow white (whith just a slight hint of grey). At first I was a bit upset at the rather dramatic change, but I think I'm really going to get to like it, it makes the tank look very much like a marine tank.
BTW, it settles very easily and isn't dirty at all, only a couple good rinses and it was good to go (about 1/8th of the time it takes to clean play sand and about 1/2 the time it takes to clean PF or blasting sand). I highly recommend this product 
This pic shows my silica sand (dirty tank on the left) and the new sand on the right.








Close ups


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## spieg

Any chance you could take a close up of a dry handfull next to a coin or something for size reference? Thanks!


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## Onecell

This is my T-Grade


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## spieg

Onecell, Thanks!

If thats the T, id say the S is much finer than I want.

Do you have any problems vacuuming the T grade like normal gravel?


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## FeatherfinFan

IMO, the S isn't too fine, it's coarser than fine silica sand (about 2-3x the size of grains of sugar). I guess it's really about what you prefer, as both really do look nice, keep in mind the T grade is only available in 4 colors, if there's a different color you want.
Here's about the best pic I could get







[/quote]


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## spieg

Thanks featherfinfan!

My biggest concerns are my power filters and being able to vacuum the substrate like normal gravel. Im afraid the S grade would make a mess of my power filters.

Im in the CA cichlid minority on this site so I want something coarse enough that the fish dont stir it up just swimming around and/or spitting substrate at each other.

Im in the minority of liking black substrate, too. Luckily, T grade is available in black!


----------



## knuckles

I have the black T grade and it isn't any harder to vacuum than PFS. In fact, although the grains are a bit smaller, they seem heavier than the PFS grains.

If your concern is fish spitting it at the filter though, you may have a problem - my fish LOVE spitting it all over the place! :roll: :lol:


----------



## snemecek

If you are going to use black, just get Moon sand. I got mine for $14 per 20 Lb. bag. I ony payed $11 for shipping of six bags! I think I got them at www.thatpetplace.com


----------



## spieg

Ok, now im confused. The T grade is finer than filter sand? In the pic that doesnt look to be the case.

snemecek, my problem is, I dont want sand. Adding sand to a tank with large cichlids and power filters does not make for a symbiotic relationship.

Im just after a uniform micro gravel that I can still vacuum like regular gravel more or less.


----------



## FeatherfinFan

Speig, If you're wanting something easier to vac, then yes, the T grade is what you're after. It really is larger than sand (at least the samples that I saw), similar to the larger grain aragonites and it's not round-grained like sand, more chippy so it should allow easier vac'ing. And as far a black substrates being in the minority, not sure, they seem to be gaining a lot of popularity around here, I've had black gravel tanks before and they do look nice 

snemecek~The moon sand is nice, but from what most folks have said, there appears to be little difference between it and the colorquartz. The colorquartz is far cheaper at an avg of less than 20 dollars per 50 pound sack (although factoring in shipping it may not be too nice).


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## snemecek

I priced the black colorquartz with shipping it was going to cost me close to $60 per bag! So, for me, the moon sand is cheaper.


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## FeatherfinFan

There's no supplier within a reasonable drive? That's a shame, that shipping will really gouge you


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## snemecek

Nope. The closest supplier for me is a 4 1/2 hour drive (one way).


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## fmueller

I just thought I might give an update after having had the black T-grade color quarz in my 29G for close to a year. I am still very happy with it, and I believe part of it's success is due to the fact that the particals are all fairly even in size - virtually no fine powder in there like in regular sand - and heavy enough that they stay on the ground. My UGJ system does a great job in preventing mud to settle on the substrate, and if there is any, it is a breeze to vacuum off. I haven't had any problems getting substrate into my filters (Eheim 2217 and Aquaclear 301), but the largest fish in my tank are Bolivian Rams, so it's not like I have large fish spitting huge quantities of it around. The black substrate makes the colors of light fish really pop - especially the rams and my neons look great over it! If I set up another tank, it's going to be color quarz as substrate for sure.

BTW - you can click on my avatar to see more pictures, some of which show my fish over the color quarz.


----------



## Thrice

Wow if the smoke looks white I wonder what the white will look like?
Featherfin what kinda lighting do you have in that tank? 
I am trying to decide if smoke would be white enough for me. 
Maybe half smoke and half white. Maybe just white.
I have alot of black/dark grey rock I want the contrast, worried that smoke would not pop as well as white.


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## mambee

I sent an email to 3M asking for some samples. I'd hate to commit to a color sight unseen.

I'll let you know if I get a response.

Mike


----------



## Thrice

Anyone ever mixed it with agronite/crushed coral? could be a cool look.
I think I will just get white then if its to white mix in some off white sand or what ever.


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## FeatherfinFan

Hi Thrice, sorry it took so long, must've missed the new posts 
I was amazed how "white" the smoke looks but it really looks great and has plenty of "pop". I use 6500k lighting so maybe the color temp combined w/ the smoke color gives such a white result. I doubt you could get any whiter, LOL. I've got black lava, petrified wood, and lace rock (which is grey) and the sand really contrasts well. I'd be interested in hearing how the white works out, although I'm certain the smoke would give you the result you're after (w/ 6500k lights anyhow). HTH.


----------



## Tuckernotis

Thrice said:


> Anyone ever mixed it with agronite/crushed coral? could be a cool look.
> I think I will just get white then if its to white mix in some off white sand or what ever.


I tried mixing some pool filter sand w/ some color quartz in my 55 gal but the grain size was too different. The CQ just sits on top. I don't like the look at all. Next time I decide to pull all the rocks out, I'm replacing with one or the other. I have T grade black CQ exclusively in my 100 gal it looks and cleans up great.


----------



## knuckles

Wow - I read that last post JUST IN TIME! I just finished washing some PFS in order to mix it with some black T-Grade Colorquartz (hoping to get a color in between the two).

Guess that won't work though, so back to the drawing board! :?


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## Tuckernotis

Let's see how long this photo works. Here's a photo of the pool filter sand and CQ. Granted there is more PFS than CQ now but you can clearly see the grain size difference and howit sits on top of the PFS.

Hap. sp 44 "Thick Skin" female


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## sonichart

I'm really torn. My LFS guy told me that sand was a bad idea and that I shouldn't go with it. I get the feeling he's kinda old school and doesn't really know what's out there as far as sand and that it can be used in a tank. What I'm looking at:

CaribSea Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand (online order probably)
3M Color Quartz S-Grade (tan color) I have a local place the sells the stuff.
Pool Filter Sand from home depot/menards etc

I'm hearing many good thing about the 3M Color Quartz, but its typically the larger T-Grade,.. and not the S-Grade. Despite my black tank/stand/canopy-- I really want a "natural" looking tank setup. Tan/Brown sand, live plants, FISH!  I'm thinking of maybe mixing a bag of the Eco-Complete with Poolsand and seeing how that works out. I don't know how the "S-grade" 3Mq compares, help? 

-phil


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## FeatherfinFan

I love the S grade  I've used just about every substrate known to man in the last 30+ years of keeping fish, and the ColorQuartz is the best I've found. The S grade is very uniform, the grains are very rounded so it's extremely safe for sand-sifting fish, the color is the most consistant that I've seen and it rinses very clean. It also doesn't trap the sulphuric gasses at all compared to the silica PF sands.


----------



## sonichart

FeatherfinFan said:


> It also doesn't trap the sulphuric gasses at all compared to the silica PF sands.


REALLY? Wow, because that is probably my biggest concern with using the sand (though I plan on keeping live plants in the tank think the roots couldeat at that), do you know why the S grade behaves this way?

What method do you use to vacuum/clean the S grade sand?


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## FeatherfinFan

I'm not sure why it doesn't trap the gasses as easy as the silica/PFS sand. The sand is like mini ball bearings and I believe the uniformity of the grains may have something to do with it. When using sands in the past I'd get in there and churn it up w/ my hands and there'd be a big stench coming from the water and the sand would be a dark grey from all the trapped gass and detritus. This 3M sand doesn't cause any smell or discoloration w/ the sand. As far as cleaning, it's the same as sand, just hold a small hose a half inch (give or take) from the sand and skim off the detritus from the sands' surface~very quick & easy.


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## fmueller

> I'm not sure why it doesn't trap the gasses as easy as the silica/PFS sand. The sand is like mini ball bearings and I believe the uniformity of the grains may have something to do with it.


I find the same thing with the T-grade, which speaks against the uniformity of the grains being responsible (T-grade grains are anything but uniform). I think it might the be coatings on each and every single grain, but I certainly agree with Featherfins finding. The stuff just doesn't clump together like regular sand does. You couldn't built a sandcastle out of Color Quartz :lol:


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## fmueller

I just bought four sacks of T-grade black Color Quartz for my 240G from the same place from which I had purchased the stuff last year for my 29G (N.T. Ruddock Company, 26123 Broadway Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio 44146, Tel: (440) 439-4976). I was pleasantly surprised that the price had dropped significantly from $22 to $17.65 per 50 pound sack. Just thought people might find that useful to know when making price comparisons.

BTW - after an extensive search I finally also found a great place to buy aquarium suitable rocks in the Akron area. I ordered a ton  of rock from Ohio Beauty Cut Stone Inc. (40 W Turkeyfoot Lake Rd, Akron OH 44319, (330) 644-2241). If you are looking for rock in the Akron area, that's the place to check out!


----------



## bOnefish

I'm waiting for my sample kit from 3M to arrive in the mail. In the meanby, I found the only local place (a flooring company) that once upon a time carried CQ. Now they carry Duraflex's Dur-A-Quartz instead. Anyone ever heard of it? The owner of the flooring company told me it's exactly the same stuff as 3M's CQ, only in different packaging. I'm a little reluctant to take his word for it since this stuff could potentially harm or kill my fish if otherwise. He did however warn me to rinse it well since there's a fair amount of silica dust in the quartz sand, a by-product of manufacturing. That helped to assure me that he knows the product well.

I'm waiting to hear from him so that I can swing by to check this stuff out in person. It'd be a heck of a lot cheaper to get this Dur-A-Quartz locally than to have the closest distributor of CQ (NJ) ship me 150-200 lbs.

Here's a link to the Dur-A-Flex Quartz Aggregate:

http://www.dur-a-flex.com/ProductLine/p ... meset.html

The color sample on the far right, "Desert" is what I'm aiming for:


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## mambee

The good folks at 3M sent me a sample kit with 19 vials of the different colors of Colorquartz. I am going to experiment to see which color works best under my lights.

Mike


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## bOnefish

Really? The good folks at 3M sent me a box with plastic pool sample cards. :roll: The CQ is already epoxied and stuck to a black plastic card. Luckily another package of 5 CQ vials came from an industrial minerals company in NJ. Depending on what this stuff looks like when wet, I'm leaning towards 2 parts buff or coral rose and 1 part tan, brown or black. So far I prefer the S grade to the T grade.


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## mambee

What company are you dealing with in NJ? I plan on ordering from Agsco. I am still trying to make up my mind regarding color. White, black, buff.

I'm so confused!!!

Mike


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## bOnefish

I called Agsco in Hasbrouk Heights, NJ too.  I spoke to Tena... nice lady. I was told by 3M that they're the only company near me that carries CQ.

Are you having it shipped or are you picking it up? Shipping for me would s*ck. 

I'm stayinq away from the white. If the smoke is as light as FeatherfinFan says, imagine how bright the white will be.  I'll be using a Coralife 10,000K and Actinic PC light, so I want a relatively dark tan subsrate without it looking brown.


----------



## mambee

I am dealing with Teena too. I have regular flourescent lighting, and the white sample that was sent to me looks fine. I like buff also. I considered black, but I want something that is more natural looking.

The substrate in my other tank is salt and pepper Eco Complete Cichlid Substrate sand, and it looks pretty cool. However, it is a bit too powdery.

Agsco is probably only 45 minutes away from me, but I am going to find out how much shipping is. Agsco is a wholesale operation, and they are not open on weekends.

Mike


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## bOnefish

I was told that shipping 200 lbs. to me in Boston would run roughly $40. There's a 7 cent fee per pound to box it up (required) and the UPS charge. I'm probably going to see the Dur-A-Flex stuff in person tomorrow.


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## TheSonofDarwin

mambee said:


> The good folks at 3M sent me a sample kit with 19 vials of the different colors of Colorquartz. I am going to experiment to see which color works best under my lights.
> 
> Mike


Hrm... I asked them for a sample kit and they said I'd have to contact a local dealer (which is non-existent). Definately won't be paying the price for shipping without first seeing what it looks like, so I guess I'll be sticking with what I have for now.

Edit: Magic - decided I'd try again, found my exact emails I had sent them before, copied them, and resent. Now within 5-7 days my sample request will be processed. We'll see if they send me pictures instead of the actual sample, even though I specificly said I'd not purchase without first being able to see and touch the samples.


----------



## bOnefish

I picked up 200 lbs. of CQ today. Actually some it it is Dur-A-Quartz and some of it is CQ. The Dur-A-Quartz stuff is identical if you guys can find it near you. I believe Dur-A-Coat is based in CT. The price is $30.00 per 50 lb. bag. The price has gone up for this supplier since the increase in fuel costs.

This supplier in southern MA was great to deal with. We chatted and mixed colors before I decided on what to buy. They also gave me dixie cups of different colors to test at home without having to open the bags. Of course I need to go back to make an exchange. :wink: I bought the white CQ and found it to be too bright under the lights at home.


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## mambee

I ordered 200 lbs of white CG from Agsco in NJ. The cost was $28/bag plus $60 for the shipping. I could have driven over, but that would have meant taking off a day from work.

I sampled the white by putting some inside a glass in my tank, and it didn't look too bright under my lights.

Mike


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## BigSkyCichlids

TheSonofDarwin said:


> mambee said:
> 
> 
> 
> The good folks at 3M sent me a sample kit with 19 vials of the different colors of Colorquartz. I am going to experiment to see which color works best under my lights.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> Hrm... I asked them for a sample kit and they said I'd have to contact a local dealer (which is non-existent). Definately won't be paying the price for shipping without first seeing what it looks like, so I guess I'll be sticking with what I have for now.
> 
> Edit: Magic - decided I'd try again, found my exact emails I had sent them before, copied them, and resent. Now within 5-7 days my sample request will be processed. We'll see if they send me pictures instead of the actual sample, even though I specificly said I'd not purchase without first being able to see and touch the samples.
Click to expand...

Maybe I got lucky, I called the 800# that appears earlier in this thread last Monday, spent about 2 min on the phone, explained what I wanted to do & why I wanted to see it. Sample kit (19 vials of CQ) was in Fridays mail.
decisions....decisions...


----------



## oglethorpe

silkpoet said:


> I would suggest being a little careful. Glass is very hard, harder than steel in fact (5.5 for glass vs. 5.0 for steel on Moe's Hardness scale) HOWEVER!!!!! Quartz is 8 on hardness, and WILL scratch your glass or acryllic tank with a vengance if you are not very careful!


A few minor corrections from some Googling I've been doing. 


> Quartz is a 7 on Moh's hardness scale (maybe Moe has a different one, nyuk nyuk nyuk. :wink: ) 
> Glass is actually considered soft, mineralogically speaking. So is steel (it is durable, not hard) but as steel is not a mineral, Moh's hardness scale doesn't fit it very well. There are other hardness scales for industrial materials like steel & ceramic.
> Quartz is actually the point where something is considered fairly hard.
> Also, for reference, acrylic is a 3 on Moh's scale. 
> So sand (quartz) will scratch both acrylic AND glass, as silkpoet correctly points out. In fact, it will do so quite easily for BOTH substances!
> Also, Moh's scale is not linear; moving one step up from acrylic (3 to 4) is only a 25% increase in hardness; moving from a 9 to a 10 is a 300 times increase.
> Limestone won't scratch acrylic. Avoid filling your tank with diamonds.
(Just been looking around for scratching information and am making a few posts on the threads I find with relevant information. Hopefully other people might be interested in the same and will find this useful.)


----------



## in_flight

ogle where did u get that info? very interesting and thanks for the head's up, i will be sure to add plexi on top of the glass when setting up my tanks


----------



## oglethorpe

in_flight -
I got it from a number of websites I found. Here are a few I still have open:
http://www.gemsociety.org/info/igem6.htm
http://www.24carat.co.uk/hardnessmohsscaleframe.html
http://waldaninternational.com/hardnessDef.shtml
http://www.compomat.com/pdf/Automotive_Restoration.pdf
(this one is for lead glass, so just interesting, unless your tank is x-ray proof:
http://www.fireglass.com/glass/x-ray.asp

Hope this helps!


----------



## FeatherfinFan

I've got the CQ in both my acrylic tanks, no scratching problems, just be sure to keep any grains away from your scrapers & algae sponges


----------



## bOnefish

> I've got the CQ in both my acrylic tanks, no scratching problems, just be sure to keep any grains away from your scrapers & algae sponges


That's why I probably won't be using a Mag-Float acrylic cleaner for either of the two tanks.

I just put the CQ in my 29 gallon last night. No _visible_ scrathces to speak of from the CQ. :wink:

Paul


----------



## FeatherfinFan

> That's why I probably won't be using a Mag-Float acrylic cleaner for either of the two tanks.


I now use mine for a refrigerator magnet


----------



## bOnefish

That's one expensive refrigerator magnet. But what the... hey... :idea:

Spray some Formula 409 on that fridge and go to town. :wink:

What's up FFF? Paul here, in case you didn't know?


----------



## FeatherfinFan

Hey Paul, what color CQ did you end up with? And how's the 135 coming along?


----------



## bOnefish

No new info on the 135 still. :-? I'm going to call Friday to get word.

I bought 100 lbs. of buff, 50 lbs. of brown and 50 lbs. of white. I need to exchange the white for another buff and pick-up some black to mix in as well. I'm curious to see how the sand ultimately looks under the 10,000K and actinic bulbs. So far I like it though.


----------



## Silver_225QC

Great post, very informative. Just wanted to let the S.F. Bay Area folks know that I found a source for $16.00 a 50lbs bag. The place is called National Pool and Tile and is located in Livermore. I picked up 4 bags of smoke today.


----------



## bOnefish

16 bucks a bag... gude deal.


----------



## mambee

I spent Sunday replacing the flourite in my 150 gallon tank with white S grade CQ.

I guess I didn't do a good enough job of rinsing, because my water is still pretty milky. I'll do another water change tonight.

2 concerns regarding CQ:
The bag has warnings regarding possible carcinogenics and against contact with skin.

Should I be worried?

Mike


----------



## bOnefish

I'm curious too? :?

Funny, Teena at Agsco said over the phone, that they can't endorse using CQ in a fish tank (not that I asked).


----------



## dyenboy

Silver_225QC said:


> Great post, very informative. Just wanted to let the S.F. Bay Area folks know that I found a source for $16.00 a 50lbs bag. The place is called National Pool and Tile and is located in Livermore. I picked up 4 bags of smoke today.


i assume that is T grade correct..

I was quoted 22.43 for S grade white..is that good?


----------



## Silver_225QC

> i assume that is T grade correct..
> 
> I was quoted 22.43 for S grade white..is that good?


The $16.00 is for S grade smoke. I'm guesssing the price difference is due to the color.


----------



## FeatherfinFan

The T Grade always seems to be 2-3 dollars more per 50 pound bag, it may be tougher to manufacture since it's not as uniform as the finer S grade. And the colors also vary in price about a dollar or two.


----------



## BLANCK88

HOLY POOP!!!!

i live 13 miles from hovertrowel who sells colorquartz


----------



## Featherfin

Just a quick question regarding the colorquartz black sand. I was just wondering if this stuff is fine enough for the smaller sandsifters. I am thinking about getting some x. ochrogenys or x. flavipinnis, and need a really fine substrate for them. From what I hear this round grained stuff seems to be perfect, but as I have not seen it in person it is tough to tell.

Maybe someone who has used it for sandsifters can chime in here? I would really appreciate any input.

Thanks,
Anish


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## FeatherfinFan

I have the S grade (the finest grade) and it's perfect for 'sifters, they'll love you for it


----------



## TraderChpl

Has anyone noticed whether the CQ is less likely to be sucked into a filter intake than playsand?

(I have my intakes 6 inches away from the surface of the sand, and still have to use a pre-filter to try to slow down the damage to my Emp400s... my cichlids love to dig constantly)


----------



## FeatherfinFan

If you've got Cichlids that pick up mouthfuls of sand while feeding and shoot out a cloud of it then you're out of luck with any sand  The CQ seems denser than regular sands of the same grade and also settles very quickly so I'd assume it would be an improvement to some degree.


----------



## Featherfin

> I have the S grade (the finest grade) and it's perfect for 'sifters, they'll love you for it


Thanks for the tip, it is very much appreciated. I'll have to make a trip to the local 3M dealer to pick about 200lbs of the S grade black. At $20 per 50 lbs, you can't beat this stuff. Waaay better than $30/ 20lbs for tahitian moon....

When I get my tanks full of the stuff, I will post some pics for sure.

And as to risk of cichlids spitting sand into filter intakes, doesn't a prefilter eliminate any possibility of damage? I know my furcifers used to lover spitting sand into my filter, and then I got smart and put a sponge on the intake 

Anish


----------



## in_flight

> Thanks for the tip, it is very much appreciated. I'll have to make a trip to the local 3M dealer to pick about 200lbs of the S grade black. At $20 per 50 lbs, you can't beat this stuff. Waaay better than $30/ 20lbs for tahitian moon....


you won't regret the choice, i think that it also looks better than tahitian moon. Questions, where did you find it for $20/50lbs? I called 3M and their only dealer in Ontario was Durock in Woodbridge and they sell them for $33/50lbs. I just picked up 100lbs worth for my 75g


----------



## Featherfin

> Question, where did you find it for $20/50lbs? I called 3M and their only dealer in Ontario was Durock in Woodbridge and they sell them for $33/50lbs.


Actually, I was gonna head to Durock to pick it up. Someone on another forum said that they had picked it up at Durock for around $20 a bag for the S grade black gravel. I guess if you picked it up at $33/bag then that is the correct price, and they were mistaken...

Oh well, forking out 30 odd bucks for 50lbs, still beats doing the same for 20


----------



## in_flight

i saw that post too and thought it was $20 but when i went to buy it, it was $33 and they said that they have never changed the price...you won't regret it, well worth the price.
What colour where you going to get?


----------



## Featherfin

I'm going to be picking up the black, unless of course I find something else that is dark and catches my eye. I really need a dark sand substrate to bring out the colors of my cyps and ventralis.

What color did you end up going with?

Anish


----------



## in_flight

black


----------



## Tuckernotis

mambee said:


> 2 concerns regarding CQ:
> The bag has warnings regarding possible carcinogenics and against contact with skin.
> 
> Should I be worried?
> 
> Mike


Answer: NO. 
The carcinogen is the dust. Silica dust is a known carcinagen. Of course that's only if you are a sandblaster working without a mask for 30 years. Since we are using the sand wet and in very small quantities there is no problem.

Now for the reason 3M and Dura-Flex (nice find BTW) will not endorse their stuff for aquarium use. They don't want to do the bioassays and all the other research involved to get something they can label as "Aquarium Safe". They sell much more quanitity to pool builders to not have to market to us peons. Consider that the average pool builder buys a thousand pounds of the stuff and we buy, what, 50#. Do the math. Not worth their while.

I'm just as happy with my CQ without their marketing. They would have to double the price and package it in 20# bags for PetSmart or Pets R Us and we would be back to the same price as Tahitian Moon. Let's just keep it our little secret. :wink:

See my black CQ under My Tanks.


----------



## bOnefish

Good analysis Tuckernotis. 8)

For anyone who buys the CQ or Dur-A-Quartz, be sure to pick the 50 lb. bags up by the bottom.  My wife saw the CQ on the street and commented that I really should not be taking on the task of decorating my neighborhood.


----------



## mambee

My 2 cents on CQ.

I swapped out flourite in my 150 gallon and added white CQ several weeks ago. The white is very bright and has a very clean look to it, like a marine tank. I like the CQ because it is dense and settles very quickly when stirred up.

Mike


----------



## dyenboy

just picked up about 200lbs yesterday for 16 bucks per bag..

OMG..this sand is so nice..its round so..there is no sharp edges..and very soft..as well as hard..so it will settle to the ground quick..

but the problem is..i put 2 gallons worth of sand to cleaning..and its taking awhile..i believe I had about 7 wash through already..and its barelly getting better..

how long does it usually take to have the water clear?


----------



## FeatherfinFan

What color did you get? My "smoke" S grade only req'd a couple good blasting runs in a 5 gal bucket and it was rinsing clean.


----------



## dyenboy

FeatherfinFan said:


> What color did you get? My "smoke" S grade only req'd a couple good blasting runs in a 5 gal bucket and it was rinsing clean.


i got the white s grade..and I cleaned it wrong..neways..its all clear now..woohoo..


----------



## Exister

Anyone using this stuff for a Neolamprologous multifasciatus tank? I'm setting up a 55 gallon tank with multies and Julidichromis transcriptus "Bemba" with Texas holey rock for the julies.

Just wondering whether to go with the black S-grade or something lighter (tan maybe)...


----------



## FeatherfinFan

I've got the S grade "smoke" w/ my Tropheus and Julidichromis Marleiri, it shows the fish well IMO. I think the black w/ the contrasting white holey rock would look pretty good too


----------



## bOnefish

Exister,

I've got buff and brown in a 29 with several rocks, but no fish yet. I'm going to put a small colony of Similis in it. I can take a pic and post it if you like?


----------



## Exister

Too Fry said:


> Exister,
> 
> I've got buff and brown in a 29 with several rocks, but no fish yet. I'm going to put a small colony of Similis in it. I can take a pic and post it if you like?


That would be great!


----------



## bOnefish

Sorry for the wait Exister. Here's a pic that I just took with my meager skills. I need to figure out how to get good pics with the PC light on too.

This one is with no light and a flash:


----------



## nebulousevolve

1)Think i could silicon some Red and Black T grade to styrofoam and make my own red lava boulders/background. Maby even and some crushed red lava. 
2) Can i mix it with concrete mix and paste it over styrofoam to make Red Lava Boulders/Background

I wonder wich one would be best


----------



## Exister

Too fry-

Thanks for the pic - looks great!

I picked up my S-Grade last Friday from a flooring place here in Baltimore for around $25.00 for a 50 lb bag. Bob, the guy who I dealt with, was very helpful and genuinely interested in why I was buying the stuff. So if any Baltimorons here are thinking of going with this stuff, I highly recommend these folks:

Brodsky & Associates 
812 West Patapsco Avenue 
Suite M 
Baltimore, MD 21230 
410-303-7100

Ask for Bob and tell them the guy who bought the S-grade black for his aquarium (Paul) sent you. 

(Thanks to Mr. Pleco for the contact info!)


----------



## bOnefish

Hey, my name's Paul too. 8) What color did you get?

Well, I got some fish into my 29 yesterday. They're kicking the CQ around easily. Great stuff.


----------



## knuckles

Thanks Exister - that's great news! I bought some black T Grade from Brodsky & Assoc. last year (very nice folks) and was wondering if they had black S Grade. I guess they do ... unless you just bought it all! 

Has anyone tried mixing the S and T Grades together? I have some leftover T Grade and was considering using both that and a new bag of S Grade in my 75 gallon Tang tank. If so, got any pictures? 
:-?


----------



## Exister

Too Fry said:


> Hey, my name's Paul too. 8) What color did you get?
> 
> Well, I got some fish into my 29 yesterday. They're kicking the CQ around easily. Great stuff.


I got the black S-Grade. Can't wait to get my **** tank up and running - it feels like I've been trying to get this thing going for 3 months now!

Knuckles, what kind of fish do you have? I've been on the prowl for a local (Baltimore area) source for multies, and I don't feel like paying the $20.00 a pop that Aquarium Center in Randallstown wants. Also looking for synodontis petricola and Julidichromis transcriptus (Kissi or Bemba, not gombi) locally. Guess when the time comes I'll just have to mail order them.


----------



## knuckles

Exister - I sent you a PM regarding places to buy fish (since it doesn't have to do with colorquartz) ...

I have colorquartz in my Tanganyikan shelldweller tanks, and even though I got the larger T grade, they seem to have NO problem moving it around! 

I'm still curious to see if anyone has mixed S and T Grade Colorquartz together. Maybe I'll end up being the 'guinea pig'! :-?


----------



## motsey000

What colors of the colorquartz do they have. I am planning on going down there on Wednesday. I call they ower of the shop last week, on his cell phone by mistake. He was home. OOPPSS. But he did ask what I wanted it for and he said that he has sold it quite a bit to people using it as a substrate for aquariums. I have been trying to find this stuff for 3 months, was looking for a place closer to Hagerstown, but I will be coming to Baltimore.


----------



## Devils_Groove

Has anyone had CQ shipped? There is no local distributor that I have found in my area, and I NEED black. I already have tahitan moon in one of my tanks but it's too lite (in weight not color). So I figure CQ should be perfect. So im just curious as to how much it cost for the shipping and who shipped it? I e-mailed a few diff companies last week and no one even replied to my queries. So any info anyones got would be great, it pains me to have my new 90 gal sitting there empty. I can't take it much longer..............


----------



## FeatherfinFan

I've got a feeling the Tahitian Moon is very similar to the CQ. I'd really like to hear of anyone that's actually compared the two products. As far as weight, I doubt you'll see much difference between the Tahitian & the S grade CQ, but the T grade should be a bit heavier as the grains are larger.


----------



## sampsosm

Devils_Groove,

Try the company on the previous list in this thread thats in Cleveland, OH, NT Ruddock, I had a relative pick some up for me, but they seemed like they would ship. Might be expensive though.


----------



## mambee

I had 200 pounds shipped from NJ to NY and it cost $65 in shipping.

Mike


----------



## Rivermud

On a DIY note, has anybody considered this for a Fluidized Bed Filter? Based on what has been posted about not compacting and being nearly round I would assume it would be nearly ideal for the purpose. Any thoughts?


----------



## motsey000

I got a custom color mix, of coral, buff and white. Kinda looks towards a pale pink. It wasnt cheap $92 for 100lbs. But I like it in the tank. We washed it several times, 5 or so, put in in the tank, and the tank was cloudy. I did do a 50% water change and that has cleared things up a bit. Last night we pput the holey rock and pixie pink marble in the tank. I am still waiting for it to settle down and will probably do a few more water changes before getting the new fish. Right now there is just a common pleco in the tank. I really like the way the light penerates the colorquartz. I would say about 3/8 of an inch you can see the light penetrating.


----------



## Dan L

I just called Agsco in Illinois...

I am getting 6 bags (3 buff and 3 brown) shipped up to Milwaukee. $17 per bag and $44 for shipping.

I am replacing Black Tahitian Moon sand in my tanks to go with a more natural look...


----------



## FeatherfinFan

A buff & brown combo sounds pretty good, post some pics when you get it together


----------



## tanganyikajoe

Has anyone heard of this colored playsand? 
http://www.happyhues.com/locations.html
http://www.happyhues.com/landscape_hues.html
Both items in the URLs above are the same product just different colors, distributor told me.
I was searching long and hard for 3M colorquartz, lets just say I can't find any around here. Closest place is a 2hr drive out of state and they won't sell it to me. Anyways, while searching for it I stumbled across this stuff. Its colored play sand, made for childrens sandboxes. I read somewhere that if its safe for your kids, its safe for your fish. Is this true? From what I understand its the same as regular playsand.
Anyways, I bought 80 lbs. (two 40 lb. bags) for $17.00. I compared it to the Tahiti moon stuff I have in one of my tanks and it looks the same. To bad it would cost me $68.00 for 80 lbs. of Tahiti moon.


----------



## FeatherfinFan

Looks like an interesting product. The one thing that concerns me is the following statement from their site "Our colored sands are color consistent from bag to bag and hold brilliant color for a full season of play."
This sounds like the color isn't going to hold through for years on end but more like months. Maybe someone could inquire?


----------



## fmueller

Colored playsand is widely available here in NE Ohio, but all the places where I inquired about it assured me that it would not be a good idea to use it near a pond, let alone in a fish tank, because it would color the water. Naturally I never tried it after receiving this advice, but you might just want to put a small amount in a glass of water and see what happens. If it's safe for kids, I agree that it's unlikely to be toxic.


----------



## manoosie

how many pounds of this stuff would you need for a 55g tank? I am going to get some soon and need a good idea of how much to buy. I am thinking 100 pounds will give me a nice base and some extra sand for later.


----------



## FeatherfinFan

I bought 300 pounds for my 2 tanks (110 & 190 gallon) and it gave me a nice deep bed (2-3"), I think 100 pounds should be a good amount for your 55 (w/ a bit left over).


----------



## bOnefish

I've got about a 3:1 ratio of buff to brown. I think it looks relatively natural.

Paul


----------



## sampsosm

I only bought one 50 pound bag for my 55, had enough for a 2 inch layer, plus theres about 10 punds or so left over.

1 bag is probably enough. But buy 2 if you are paranoid. :wink:


----------



## fmueller

I agree, 50 pounds (1 sack) should be plenty for a 55G, unless you are after an unusually thick substrate layer. I used about half a sack (25 pounds) for my 29G, and 4 sacks (200 pounds) for my 240G (8'x2'x2').


----------



## aquagirl1

I picked up my bag yesterday, I purchased T grade. My Gold Ocellatus don't seem to like it so far or let me say their not digging like they always do . I wonder if I should have gone with the S grade instead :-?. Is anyone using this grade with ocellatus with success? My 50lb bag cost $22.22.


----------



## Paulbearer

I have 3 Black t-grades coming in friday myself. I was lucky and had a local place that had it shipped in from the warehouse.


----------



## aquagirl1

Do you have any Ocellatus? If so please let me know if they are digging in it. Mine still are not diggin it, lol.


----------



## Althalus

does anyone know if you can get cq in the uk?

It sounds like it is the best solution if you want a sand base.


----------



## SublimeJason

Well after reading this thread,
I went out and got a 50 pound bag of the Black 'S' grade for my 55g,
I really like the Look of it, And The fish seem to like it aLot better than the Gravel, Thanks to All of you for the Great info on the 3M sand!


----------



## DallasTx

I discovered 3M was available right here in town for about $18 a bag. I've always used gravel so I was having trouble deciding which one to go with, S grade or T grade. So I decided to buy 2 bags, 1 of each, and test them separately in an empty 25g tank I had in the garage. Figured that was better than converting my 100g, then finding I'd made a mistake! I was definitely leaning towards the T grade ahead of time due to my gravel background, but I was surprised by my tests. I settled on the S grade!

The S grade is very uniform in size. You can depend on the way it reacts to vacuuming. T grade is just the opposite, the granules ranged in size from coarse sand all the way down to very very fine particles. The Coarse grains were several times bigger than S grade, but the fine particles were smaller than the S. I actually found the S grade to be easier to vacuum than the T grade, because of all the tiny particles in the T. 
The S grade also has a lot more color options, which was a plus also.

I'm going to buy the S grade, white with probably some buff to mix in.
Thanks to all the people who helped put this excellent thread together, it was very helpful.


----------



## the_tuna

hey, DallasTX:
Can I ask where you found the 3M CQ? No one in Central Texas wanted to play ball with an aquarist, so I ordered mine in from Mason Mart, in CA, and UPS'ed it in to Round Rock. I paid apx $17/bag, and shipping for 4x 50# bags was about $40. They have a Dallas location... just wondering if they were stocking up north of here now.


----------



## DallasTx

National Pool and Tile in Dallas has it.

Didn't tell why I wanted it, just told 'em what I wanted and they sold it to me. Did you get the S or the T grade? What color?


----------



## the_tuna

S-grade - I went with a combination of colors. On 3M's website I found a Color Blend called Rosurient: 6x parts White, 1x Part Red, 1x Part Coral Rose and 1x Part Smoke.

What I actually purchased was: 1 bag of each: Red, White, Coral Rose & Buff. And I plan to mix accordingly to fill 100gal as soon as back ground is finished. I thought the Buff would be better to have left over (next tank.. shhh!) than the Smoke.

Natl Pool & Tile is one of the companies I tried locally (Pflugerviile) and they would only sell to licensed pool contractors. Oh, well! I'd pay more to give the business locally, but if they won't play ball, I'll find my own way to get it.


----------



## riggs

does anyone have an opinion on what color or combination of colors would be "natural" for buffalo cichlids?? latin name is Steatocranus casuarius. and here is a link to the profile.

http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1353


----------



## riggs

ok, so i found a helpful link on 3M's page. hopefully this will help you determine if there are any distributors near you.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...Mz0vM0Q9KzYsPDdaP0I8yizeINzUz1S_IcFQEAGKvYu0!


----------



## jtfields

FeatherfinFan said:


> Here's the Western region suppliers too
> 
> National Pool Tile
> 4300 Pine Timbers
> Suite 128
> Houston, TX 77041
> 713-460-8794


I purchased a used 110 gallon tank a year ago (October 2004) and ended up putting off cleaning it and setting it up (for various reasons.) I was looking into the CQ back then and called National Pool and Tile here in Houston. At the time they told me they would not sell to the public but when he found out that I only wanted three bags he agreed to sell me the black T grade for $16.39 per 50 lb. bag. I never purchased it though.

I'm finally getting ready to starting this little project so I called them again today. They are still willing to sell me the CQ. I explained what I was using it for and the salesman began trying to convince me that something else he had would be a better option. The guy had a very heavy accent and I had a difficult time understanding what he was talking about. They now want $19.46 per 50 lb. bag of the black T grade. After reading this thread (which took quite awhile  ) I'm now leaning towards the S grade which I failed to get any pricing on.

Anyway, just wanted to pass this information along in case there was anyone in the Houston area interested in the CQ. I plan on heading over there tomorrow to get 150 lbs. of the stuff. I guess I'll decide between the S and the T grade once I get there. I guess I'll also figure out what this other option was.


----------



## ronrca

Im going to revonating my planted 90G into a african cichlid tank soon and I have always wanted sand as a substrate. After reading articles regarding sand, many have indicated that black sand is great for bringing out colors. Anyways, after searching for black sand, Im really glad I found this thread. Now I need to find a distributor in Alberta, Canada and hope I can get my hands on this stuff. Save me a lot of money that I can now use to purchase...hmm...well, fish of course!

Thank you! :wink:


----------



## ej13

anyone have advice on cleaning 3m cq i have about 300 pounds of black s grade. did one bag for about 20 minutes and still was turning the water black. thanks


----------



## FeatherfinFan

I just filled a 5 gallon bucket about 1/3rd full of sand and pressure blasted it w/ a garden hose, it ran clear after a minute or two. I used "smoke" colored S grade.


----------



## jtfields

jtfields said:


> I plan on heading over there tomorrow to get 150 lbs. of the stuff. I guess I'll decide between the S and the T grade once I get there.


Well, I took a long lunch today and drove over to National Pool Tile and purchased three bags (150 lbs.) of S grade CQ for $14.99 per bag plus tax (totaled just over $48.) The bags were smaller than what I had envisioned. I was wanting enough for at least a two inch layer in my 110 gallon tank so hopefully I got enough.

They were very friendly. In fact the guy I talked to on the phone yesterday thought it was such a neat idea that he had gotten a glass and filled it with water and dropped in a mixture of black, green and red to show me. He thought it would be "cool" in a fish tank. :lol: I think he was actually surprised when I told him I'd just stick with all black.

I was surprised by how small the S grade ganules were but I went for the S grade because I liked the uniformity. The T grade did vary greatly in size, from smaller than the S grade to four or five times larger, and was much more jagged. Pretty much like everyone described here. 

I stopped off at Aquarium World on the way home and they had bags of Tahitian Moon Sand which I had never seen in person before. It was over $20 for a 20 lb bag (Aquarium World tends to be on the pricey side though.) The grain size of the S grade is just about the same as the TMS, maybe just a tad larger, but I didn't have any of the S grade with me in the store for a direct comparison (I wasn't expecting to find the TMS there.) So anyone who is trying to find a cheaper substitute for TMS will want the S grade in my opinion.


----------



## Xanatost

Dose anyone know of a place in Alanta Ga. that sell's it? I will be there Dec. 16 & 17 and would like to pick some up. A address would be good to


----------



## FeatherfinFan

> Dose anyone know of a place in Alanta Ga. that sell's it? I will be there Dec. 16 & 17 and would like to pick some up. A address would be good to


Have you checked the earlier pages of the thread w/ the address listings?


----------



## Beaglegirl

I LOVE my black s-grade 3M colorquartz!!!
I bought two 50lb. bags for my 90 gallon. 
I took each bag and divided it amoung about 10 five gallon buckets (so each bucket had about an inch or two of sand at the bottom)
Then, I filled each bucket and stirred it around with a piece of PVC pipe (too cold to reach my hands down in it to stir!) When the heavier pieces settled after a few seconds I tipped the bucket and drained all the water off.
I did each bucket about 5 times (5 times for EACH 10 gallon bucket!)
When I put it in my tank it was a bit cloudy for about a week, but I think the cloudy bit was from my water, NOT the colorquartz. Now I have my cycling fish in and all seems well. I added rocks, then colorquartz, then water.
I found when I added water some chunks of my lace rock fell off on to my colorquartz. I stirred it around, and the light chips from the lace rock disappeared.
Even if some specks show through, that is OK. The deep black look is amazing. I'm very pleased with how this new tank is coming along.
For my renovation of my 29 gallon, I'm going to try the T grade. Not because I don't like the s grade, just because I want to experiment to see which I like better.
Anyone have both??? Any preferences?


----------



## LLEE24

I had just called 3M and was given a distributor 1/2 hour closest to me in NJ. You have to buy a minimum of 3 bags. The cost is 26.00 per 50lb bag. If i wanted it to ship it would be 28.00 per bag. It can be costly. So i might as well drive and pick it up next week. I choose black and i am excited to get it.

I called many pool store, but they don't carry the colorquartz...


----------



## agrotto

I just picked up 3 bags of CQ last week from Agsco in IL. For a 125g tank I got 1 each of Buff, Tan and Plum. Buff and Tan were $17/bag and the Plum was $20.

Washed and mixed on Saturday and it looks awesome!


----------



## Xanatost

Good color chart.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/!ut/ ... FQEAHTt83Y!


----------



## FeatherfinFan

*I just picked up 3 bags of CQ last week from Agsco in IL. For a 125g tank I got 1 each of Buff, Tan and Plum. Buff and Tan were $17/bag and the Plum was $20. *

I was considering plum and settled on smoke~curious how it would look w/ brown-black rocks & backgound. If you can post some pics of your 3color combo that would be cool 
BTW, they were all S grade right?


----------



## agrotto

FeatherfinFan said:


> *I just picked up 3 bags of CQ last week from Agsco in IL. For a 125g tank I got 1 each of Buff, Tan and Plum. Buff and Tan were $17/bag and the Plum was $20. *
> 
> I was considering plum and settled on smoke~curious how it would look w/ brown-black rocks & backgound. If you can post some pics of your 3color combo that would be cool
> BTW, they were all S grade right?


Yep, these colors only come in S-Grade. I'll try to get some pix over the weekend.


----------



## agrotto

Here are some pix of the CQ in my new 125g tank:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yumyum/sets/1256211/

-Bill


----------



## FeatherfinFan

That combo looks cool, quite an interesting fish mix too. Curious how the plum would look on its' own. Thanks for the pics and have fun w/ that nice tank


----------



## LLEE24

I just picked up 2 50lb bag of black 3m colorquartz for $35.00 per bag not including shipping last week and i used one bag for my 65 gallon tank. (1 1/2" base)

Washing the sand is ****. i had to divide the colorquartz in 3 buckets and wash and drain, wash and drain till the water runs clear. I am assuming that it would be worth it after i get it to my tank.

I dont think i need the extra 50lb bag, cause i am tired of washing it. hahha. I live in the Brooklyn, NY area. I might sell that one bag if anyone wants... u can e-mail me at [email protected] and on the subject line in CAPS put "RE: 3M COLORQUARTZ CRYSTAL (BLK).


----------



## Skibbi9

I just added a 50lb bag to my new 55g, in black, washed it all 5x before putting it in and the water in the tank is still tinted but oh well.

will get pictures later.

by the way, 50 lbs is more than enough for a 55g tank


----------



## degbowl

I'm thinking of buying some for a new tank. Any pictures Skibbi9?


----------



## aquagirl1

agrotto said:


> Here are some pix of the CQ in my new 125g tank:
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/yumyum/sets/1256211/
> 
> -Bill


Your tank looks great! I like your color combo. Your children are beautiful.


----------



## aquagirl1

I used the T grade in three of my shell dwelling cichlid tanks. The shellies did not seem to like it and stopped digging so I had to mix it in with the sand to make them happy :roll:. Next time around I will definitely go with the S grade for the shell dwellers. I am having success with the product as far as color fastness goes, it looks as good as it did the day it went in the tanks. Many thanks to Exister for letting me know about this product :thumb:


----------



## phajlw

i finally found this stuff wohoo


----------



## princer7

I picked some of this stuff up on our way through Dallas, Tx. The National Pool & Tile Group there were very friendly and said they get a lot of people coming in looking for the ColorQuartz to use in an aquarium. Only wish the place in Austin was so good about it. It ended up costing $14.99 per 50lb bag of S Grade.


----------



## misterthews

has anyone that lives in CA somewhere in or near orange county found a distributor that carrys this 3M color quartz. If thier is can you plz give me the info and where it store is. Or does anyone know of an oline dealer that sells this stuff

Thx

Misterthews


----------



## kana

Just ordered a pre-mix of brown buff and a little bit of white.










Found it in livonia Michigan if anyone is interested. They are going to call me back with the shipping costs.


----------



## princer7

Do you have the mix for the brown buff and white? I picked up 3 bags of buff and a bag of brown but not sure how it will look.


----------



## misterthews

anyone know of a retailer or online store that i can buy this stuff from. I live in orange country CA


----------



## princer7

Here is a pic of what the S Grade black looks like close up.

It looks pretty close to the Tahitian Moon Sand in size but maybe darker and a uniform black. Anyone want to post a picture of the grains for comparison? For $14.99 per 50lb bag it cannot be beat.


----------



## kana

princer7 said:


> Do you have the mix for the brown buff and white? I picked up 3 bags of buff and a bag of brown but not sure how it will look.


Haven't received it yet. Should be here in a week or two.


----------



## the_tuna

here's a link to pdf from 3M - showing some of the color mixes they have, and basic proportions... No buff-brown mix listed...

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs ... mDGRBIk_K-


----------



## kana

the_tuna said:


> here's a link to pdf from 3M - showing some of the color mixes they have, and basic proportions... No buff-brown mix listed...
> 
> http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs ... mDGRBIk_K-


This is where I found the mix

http://www.calidadllc.com/colorquartz.htm

They are kind of slow to ship, but as soon as I get it I will post a picture.


----------



## Mokkers

Not saying it isn't worth it but if you get the black colorquartz be prepared for a good deal of work and a mess to clean up.

It leaves a black residue on buckets it so those need cleaning after you clean the sand.


----------



## bOnefish

Here's what a 3:1 ratio of buff to brown looks like.










I didn't like the effect that white had on the overall look.


----------



## Mokkers

That looks really good. Like the rocks too.


----------



## PondCometer

Is the cleaning easy for 3M Quartz? Does it cloud like sand? Thanks


----------



## vollogg

see this on page 4
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:48 pm Post subject:


----------



## vollogg

see page 4 of this thread


----------



## vollogg

see page 4 of this thread for a listing of Dist.


----------



## PondCometer

Wow triple post, thanks i'll check it out..

EDIT: That is a Eastern Division list, I am trying to find some in Southern California, I emailed 3M last week and no response yet, anyone have better luck?


----------



## mistaya36

Bonefish - what kind of rocks are in that pic? I'm interested in trying to find some. They look great.


----------



## LLEE24

I bought 2 bags of black colorquartz T-Grade and had to drive there to pick it up. Unfortunatly i used one bag and still have one bag left. I bought the colorquartz at $30.00. If anyone is interested in buying it off from me. You can e-mail me at [email protected]. On the subject line put "colorquartz". I live in the Brookly, NY area.


----------



## cichlover_mel

Any one know where i can get this stuff in Ontario.. I curently have black gavel but wish to switch to the CQ in the black S grade. Thanks any help greatly appriciated.


----------



## paradise

Just saw this thread, and called 3M. they have an online locator for this product:
http://www.3m.com/pools/ and click on "where to buy"

Did not see it mentioned in this thread. Really makes it easy.


----------



## morph860

I called Phoenix Products, they are my local distributor for the 3m products. The lady I happened to speak to was also a cichlid person. She said she wouldn't recommend putting this in a fish tank, she's using Tahitian Moon Sand right now. She said she'd find a bag for me to have, but how much would I need? I have a 55-gallon right now....50 pounds is way too much right?? I'm still debating whether to use this or the moon sand myself.


----------



## Deeda

Well I've been using Colorquartz S grade in a combination of black, white, buff, brown & gray & I love it almost as much as the cichlids do. I find it much more natural than chunky gravel. I don't know why she wouldn't recommend it. Its also a heck of a lot cheaper than anything you could buy in a pet shop.


----------



## Mokkers

morph860 said:


> I called Phoenix Products, they are my local distributor for the 3m products. The lady I happened to speak to was also a cichlid person. She said she wouldn't recommend putting this in a fish tank, she's using Tahitian Moon Sand right now. She said she'd find a bag for me to have, but how much would I need? I have a 55-gallon right now....50 pounds is way too much right?? I'm still debating whether to use this or the moon sand myself.


Sorry ... I'm calling BS on the woman dissing the CQ and suggest that she doesn't know what she's talking about. I replied in the other thread.

50lbs of CQ would be perfect for a 55g.


----------



## ben_cichlid

Mokkers said:


> morph860 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I called Phoenix Products, they are my local distributor for the 3m products. The lady I happened to speak to was also a cichlid person. She said she wouldn't recommend putting this in a fish tank, she's using Tahitian Moon Sand right now. She said she'd find a bag for me to have, but how much would I need? I have a 55-gallon right now....50 pounds is way too much right?? I'm still debating whether to use this or the moon sand myself.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry ... I'm calling BS on the woman dissing the CQ and suggest that she doesn't know what she's talking about. I replied in the other thread.
> 
> 50lbs of CQ would be perfect for a 55g.
Click to expand...

Mokkers, do you know where can I can 3M sand in Austin ?


----------



## Mokkers

I don't know anywhere in Austin that sells it.


----------



## the_tuna

ben_cichlid said:


> Mokkers, do you know where can I can 3M sand in Austin ?


Have you tried Mason Mart in Dallas? Maybe they can bring it in from CA. I had mine shipped in from their CA location last year.


----------



## smoothvirus

I was looking for info on substrates a couple of days ago and found this topic. After reading the whole thing, today I went and bought two bags of S Grade Black from Hatchik Supply Company in Springfield, VA.

Thanks for the tips everyone! :thumb:


----------



## Mokkers

the_tuna said:


> ben_cichlid said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mokkers, do you know where can I can 3M sand in Austin ?
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried Mason Mart in Dallas? Maybe they can bring it in from CA. I had mine shipped in from their CA location last year.
Click to expand...

I got mine from National Pool and Tile Group in Dallas.


----------



## Bombay

Off topic, but thought I'd post the nice samples they send.










Regarding the comments from the lady who dissed the cq...
cq is ceramic coated quartz. TMS is comparable to "volcanic glass" according to my conversations with Carib-Sea. Do you see the parallel there between ceramic and volanic glass? I do. :wink:


----------



## shoefreak03

on the bag there is a statement that saids, "chemical in this produce is known to cause cancer."
should this be something i should be worried about using it as aquarium sand???


----------



## Deeda

Only if you are planning on inhaling any fine dust in the bag!!!!


----------



## DallasTx

ben_cichlid said:


> do you know where can I can 3M sand in Austin ?


Don't know about Austin but if you're in Dallas they have it at National Pool Tile on Blystone lane in Dallas.
http://www.google.com/maps?hl=en&lr=&q= ... l&ct=title


----------



## anthonyl

I live in CO, can anyone tell me where to pick up some river rock? thanks.


----------



## maxwell1295

I picked up 2 bags of the black S-grade for my 55g on Monday......I think they were $50 including tax. I just started rinsing it last night and this has to be some of the messiest stuff I've worked with. :x


----------



## maxwell1295

Pics of S-grade in black...


----------



## 810Raider

This stuff is wonderful. WAY better than TMS.

This dealer in the SEATTLE area has it in stock for $23 a bag.

Industrial Coatings & Sealants 
425-742-5693
12521 Evergreen Drive
Mukilteo WA 98275

I suggest calling for directions because MapQuest steered me wrong.


----------



## bigvisk

anyone mix a combo of black and a blue, im thinking 2:1, 3:1, maybe even 4:1, black to blue (dark blue or maybe even a purple). just wondering what you guys think, how it will look. i found a local distributer, 3 miles away . i havent called them yet, still searching for a cheap 90-120 gallon tank. well, any info on that mixture would be great, thanks.

btw, this is a long thread, and i read it all, didnt find any black/blue combos, thanks.


----------



## Riss83

Well, I'm convinced that this is the stuff I'm going to buy... now I just have to find it in Australia. I've found a couple of local places but they are going to charge me $77 Au for 22.7 kg bag which roughly equates to $59 US for 50 pound bag.

I cant believe it... I feel ripped off. I just may have to go with it though. Bit reluctant to pay that considering I might need two bags. If anyone else has had any luck in Australia.. please let me know.

Riss


----------



## toffee

how does UGJ work with CQ? or is it still necessary? I am very tempted to convert by gravel into sand with UGJ, after reading this thread .... CQ seems to be da thing to have.


----------



## Regulator75

I just got quoted $48.00 a bag (S-grade white , from Steels Industrial (a supplier in Calgary AB).

Does anyone know any other suppliers who may sell for less?


----------



## mithesaint

I had the same problem. I found a supplier, but he wanted 48 per bag too. I'll stick with what I've got for that price  Anyone in western NY had any luck?


----------



## bigvisk

mithesaint said:


> I had the same problem. I found a supplier, but he wanted 48 per bag too. I'll stick with what I've got for that price  Anyone in western NY had any luck?


im in eastern NY, no luck here, if you find anyone out there can you pm me, i might make the drive .


----------



## kleigh9

I'm in western NY, no luck here. Its extremely frustrating that someone has a product you want and you can't get it, huh?


----------



## bigvisk

very


----------



## kleigh9

I'm not sure if anyone posted this before but here is a link I found to a letter to 3M requestion that they market their product for aquarium use. Maybe if enough people sign it?

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/mmmsand#sign

I sent it to everone I know!

Edited to add, I just realized this was started back in 2005 and it kind of looks like it never went anywhere - 
maybe we could all send letters to 3M or something?


----------



## zschweter

As an Architect - i might have some answers about getting this stuff or comperable:

Search for "Buy Quartz Sand" - you will find that there are local "sand pits" that specialize in sand for all manner of construction applications. from coarse for Concrete and contruction to fine for sand-blasting and playgrounds. ALL of these sands, gravels, stones, etc need to meet stingent standards as set out by ANSI or other governing bodies.

Concrete yards will have TONS of sand around from fine to otherwise.

Wrought Iron fence builders might have sand around for sand blasting.

Pool Plasterer's and refinisher's will be a good resource. this includes Hot-tub places or pool cleaning companies.

NOW - let's be honest. 3M is the name brand. However QUARTZ SAND is really what it is. (Like Sheet Rock is a name brand and Gypsum Board is the type of product.) and again Quartz Sand has to meet or exceed national standards in order to be called Quartz Sand.

Good Luck all.


----------



## zschweter

anthonyl said:


> I live in CO, can anyone tell me where to pick up some river rock? thanks.


any Nursery worth it's weight in gold should have. they come pollished and non - and also in different sizes too. stuff is expensive. Green River rock is my fav. although looking for a smooth brown vriety


----------



## Gerry Binczik

> ... 3M is the name brand. However QUARTZ SAND is really what it is...


3M's Colorquartz Crystals are obviously more than merely quartz sand. Here is a snippet from the company's online description of the product (with bold added by me):

_"... Quartz, one of natureâ€™s hardest minerals, is *bonded with an exterior ceramic coating*..."_


----------



## jb1234

Hello anyone know of any distributers in the New Hampshire or Massachusetts area? Thanks.


----------



## wchin15232

I am looking for 3M quartz in the NYC area. Anyone have a supplier?


----------



## Ti

Is there a place in northern Cali?


----------



## intermediate_noob

Is it really worth it? Not the cost, but the color, the consistency, the east of use, the cleanliness...all of it.

I _finally_ found someone in town that has a large amount of the stuff in a variety of colors and do not plan on using it again. I guess they had problems with it (they are a pool contractor). However, they quoted me 50 a bag for it. This is close to the price I was quoted from AGSCO to ship it from Il. to New Mexico.

So I ask again...is it really worth the cost? I am going to try to haggle with the guy tomorrow, but still...I am torn on whether it is worth it.

Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## fmueller

I paid $20 per bag, which is a lot more than you would pay for poolfitersand, but cost of the substrate was still insignificant compared to the total cost of setting up a show tank. At $50 per bag that would no longer have been true, and I doubt I would have bought thet stuff for that money. I had a hard time anyhow deciding on a light or dark substrate. $5o per bag would have made up my mind for me


----------



## intermediate_noob

Thanks for the reply. The 50 dollar price tag and the fact that a nice forum member told me to contact Sand blasting stores for silica sand was the deciding factor.

I just paid 400 bucks for the tank, stand, and lighting along with overflow, pump, and power heads. I do not have the cash to drop 100 bucks on substrate. Especially when I bought a 90 a month ago and never set it up (have to sell that soon too).

Anyway enough of my financial woes, but the sand blasting sand is 12 dollars for a 100 lb. bag. I think I will go that route.

But if there are any people in Albuquerque, New Mexico looking for a retailer who carries 3M Colorquartz, PM me and I will give you the contact info. Thanks all.


----------



## intermediate_noob

Well...I just got a call from the distributor here in Albuquerque. I had told him the 50 dollars a bag was tooo much for me to pay. So he priced matched AGSCO. So he has approximately 2 tons of the stuff in varying colors and will take 18 dollars a bag for it. He just wants to get rid of it (I should have said 10, but hindsight, you know?)

So anyone in New Mexico that wants the stuff, PM and I will give you all the guys contact information. Also, wanted to ask..

Do you all think this stuff could be sold on Aquabid or on Cichlid forum? I am not talking about huge profits, just for shipping or something. Dunno, just a thought.

Now a decision, do I buy it, or stay with what I have? I hate these kinds of decisions.

-chris


----------



## intermediate_noob

Just to throw this out one more time:

There is a distributor here in Albuquerque New Mexico that has at least a pallet of black, a pallet of smoke, and multiple other colors of the 3M Color Quartz for 18 bucks a bag. They are looking to get rid of it and said that anyone interested can go down and pick it up.

Shipping for this stuff seems pretty expensive. Sixty dollars or so for 100 lbs to New York from New Mexico. But, if anyone is interested, PM me.

The company also said that they might start selling this stuff on eBay. I will let everyone know if it occurs.

-Chris


----------



## intermediate_noob

Question for those of you using Colorquartz. When you first added it, did your water become cloudy? Mine is still very very cloudy and seems to settle on the driftwood and such. I washed and washed the Colorquartz (rubbed my hands raw, use gloves) and the water is still cloudy.

Any suggestions? The tank is still empty except for decorations, so I am thinking of just doing a large water change. However, 135 gallons is a lot of water to change.

BTW, I am going with about 1:3 Brown to Buff mix and it is awesome!!!


----------



## Mokkers

You need to really rinse it well before adding to the tank.


----------



## intermediate_noob

I cleaned it until it ran clear in a 5 gallon bucket, that is why I do not understand. I guess it had to be "crystal clear" to really work right. Water Change here I come.


----------



## MadGreek

Found a supplier in the San Diego area for anyone looking. National Pool and Tile Group in El Cajon. Phone # (619) 449-2545. At 16.39 per bag plus tax I got 200 lbs of S Grade Black for 70.97. Very happy. They said they have several outlets through So. Cal. The web site is www.nptgonline.com if you want to check other locations.


----------



## peterl

I found these guys in Medfield that will sell me a bag of 3M Colorquartz for $30.50. They also have Estes PermaColor Quartz for $19 per bag. She only has the S grade, and they are going to stop using the 3M product very soon.

CBC Liberty Enterprises, LLC Medfield, MA 02052-0588
Phone: 508-242-9774 â€¢ Fax: 508-242-9775 â€¢ Email: [email protected]

Boston Flooring in Easton will also sell bags of Colorquartz, but I have not gotten a price yet. These guys are familiar with using the CQ in aquariums.


----------



## peterl

I went to CBC Liberty today. They are *really* nice people! I was going to buy the Estes sand but they sold me 3M for the same price--$20/50 lbs. They did not bave black T grade in stock, so I took the S grade. They happily gave me samples, let me open other bags to check the color, and offered to get is some more T grade black if I wanted it.

They are very receptive to the aquarium community. If you are in Eastern MA and looking for colored sand, I highly recommend them.


----------



## MrLeadFoot

I thought I'd chime in here, because I just got back from a distributor who gave me the 3M sample kit, complete with all colors and grades of the ColorQuartz. I've done some testing with the stuff and comparisons to my regular sand and coral sand, and thought some of you might be interested in my findings.

I compared the size of the S grade and the T grade to the sand and coral sand and found that the T grade is pretty much the same size as both the coral and regular sands. The S grade is _*MUCH*_ smaller and is indeed powdery-looking.

To reduce the chance of color leaching during the water test, I tested the white color. I put some S grade in a small jar and shook it up. For such a tiny grain size, I was surprised that it sank to the bottom as quickly as it did, but the T grade is definitely much better at getting back down to the bottom. Something that did surprise me was that the jar with T grade in it had much clearer water than the jar with S grade. I attribute this to the fact that both grades seem to also contain smaller sized grains, and being that the S grade is tiny to begin with, there are probably minute particles that suspend themselves. I repeated this test several times and each time the result was the same - the water with the T grade was much clearer. I even had some other people take a look just to be sure it wasn't me clouding my own judgement (pun intended), but even the other people immediately noticed the difference, even though I didn't even ask them to look at the water clarity.

This might explain why there are so many posts on this thread regarding how hard it is to clean the black color; most of these posts I read were from people who went with black in the S grade.

I then filled the jars with water and placed them in the bottom of the tank with the coral sand to compare the color with the coral sand. I hadn't noticed it before, but while coral sand SEEMS white, it really is not compared to the ColorQuartz. Next to the white ColorQuartz, the coral sand seems more of a Vanilla color.

All in all, it sure looks like the T grade is the way to go. Not only does the larger size provide more character in texture, it's grain size is far closer to the size of both coral sand and regular sand, giving it a more natural look that the S grade, IMHO. Combine that with the fact that it sinks back to the bottom faster than the S grade, and that the S grade somehow causes a bit of cloudiness in the water, I've decided to take no chances with the S grade and go with the T grade instead, although before my tests I was dead set on the S grade. Again, IMHO the faster sinking means less chance of a filter inhaling it as well as less cloudiness.


----------



## MrLeadFoot

I'm leaning toward the T grade due to easier cleaning a heavier substrate, as well as less chance of filter ingestion with the heavier grade, but had a couple of questions some of you might be able to help with.

Anyone experiencing any problem with the T grade, as far as fish getting injured or anything like that? I ask because the T grade seems to be rougher than both regular sand and coral sand.

Secondly, would Aulonocaras, Haps, Mbunas and Tropheus still sift the T grade, being that it's rough?

On the other hand, I'm sure they'd still sift the S grade, but by the same token, I wonder if they'd have a hard time expelling the S grade because it's so fine, as well as wonder if it can cause problems if they digest it when sifting for food and not being able to sift the S grade out when they do find something edible.

All feedback, whether it be from actual experience, or simply opinions, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## Guest

Hello all. I live in NJ. Did the same, called 3M and found a distributor about 30 miles away from my home. Went there, bought a couple of bags and started talking to the people. They asked me what I was using it for and when I told them for an aquarium, they looked shocked! I guess many people have told them that. He asked me what they are selling in the LFS for subtrates...long story short, he said he is going to look into introducing the 3M products to the LFS. Hopefully that will go worldwide :thumb:


----------



## MrLeadFoot

It already is going worldwide in aquarium stores, but it will not be the ColorQuartz we know of today. 3M is formulating a new substrate specifically for aquariums. I personally spoke to them about it.


----------



## Guest

ok, good deal :thumb:


----------



## Guest

Just put together my 65 gallon with the colorquartz black and it looks outstanding. I have 4 tanks in my house and by far, the 65 is the best looking due to the colorquartz. Had to rinse out the stuff a couple of times but it was so worth it


----------



## FeatherfinFan

Leadfoot, you replied about whether the T grade is OK for sandsifters? IME I'd only go w/ the S grade for Tropheus & Sandsifters since they really work the sand through the gills. I compared both grades and I prefer the S, but both look great. If you haven't purchased your sand yet and want it for Tropheus I'd reconsider the S over the T since the S is much smoother. I didn't find it too fine, very comparable to silica sand, but like you metnioned the T is more like a coral-based sand w/ its' edges and irregularities.

That's interesting that 3M is considering branching out and marketing it for aquariums, it's about time they went public about this awesome substrate, IMO it truly is the best sand out there


----------



## MrLeadFoot

Hey, Brad, thanks fo the input. But, I ended up getting the T grade and it seems to be working out fine. The Tropheus are sifting anyway, and I also found that the larger grain size adds a bit more character to the substrate, so, so far, I'm pleased with the T grade..


----------



## gordon77

i also bought 100# of t grade from a local tile and pool supplier
it's great, fish love it. only downside was rinsing all the dust 
out ( took 3hrs with multiple rinses) but well worth it
paid $18/50# contractors price otherwise as a casual buyer off 
the street the cost would be double

good luck

scratching around and getting good deals is half the fun


----------



## MrLeadFoot

The one thing I DON'T like about this stuff, is that it seems to never stop leacing dust. For example, if you move your substrate around, as is the case then you're propgating plants or moving around big rocks, the CQ creates "dust" in the water again, just like when it was new. But, I guess if you don't re-arrange often, it's not a problem.


----------



## Guest

I have julies in there and I've read when they pair up you shouldn't rearrange the tank because they will get stressed out or possibly kill the weaker one. The way it seems, there is nothing out there that is a perfect substrate. I have tan pfs in my other tang tank and it gets corroded with green algae. Have to constantly clean that sand thoroughly everytime I do a water change!


----------



## FeatherfinFan

Leadfoot, luckily I never had that continuel dust problem w/ my "smoke" colored S grade. I really rinsed it over & over again, but maybe the less uniform T grade is harder to get completely clean? Every time I churned the sand it would be virtually cloud free 

LC~I've had several Julli pairs over the years and never observed any extreme behaviour after cleaning up a tank. I wouldn't completely re-arrange their territory unless you just can't avoid it though, but you should be able to adequately clean the sand without too much disruption. If they're protecting fry you'll just have to work around the main rock(s) and get the sand under the rocks a little at a time (maybe 1/2 the structure in one cleaning and the other half next time).


----------



## fishwolfe

no dsistributers in oregon


----------



## mambee

I converted my 150 gallon tank to white S grade CQ about 2 years ago, and I'm very satisfied. The white CQ looks very pure. However, it is very bright. If I had to do it again, I would probably mix in some other colors.

My fish appreciate the CQ sand. My Geophagus is very content sifting food from the substrate, my Uarus build it into big mounds when they are in breeding mode, and my Crayfish bulldozes it by using his front claws as plows.

Mike


----------



## psnco

WOW! 3 years after I unearthed this product and came here to discuss it, a thread is still going strong!

I haven't had any tanks set up for about a year now. I'm happy to see that my frugal ways has helped so many other aquarium enthusists.


----------



## FeatherfinFan

LOL, see what you started, check back again in three more years


----------



## ShoNuff

fishwolfe said:


> no dsistributers in oregon


Did you try this place?

Genesis Pools & Spas P#503-524-2502
13740 S W Scholls Ferry Road
Beaverton OR 97007


----------



## fishwolfe

i called the 1-800 number and thats what they told me :-? so i went with something else.but maybe in the future i can use them.


----------



## ShoNuff

I dont know if they have 3M or not. I found them listed on 3M's site. Tried calling them today but they were already closed. I'll try again tomorrow.


----------



## kyle44107

I'm just reading this for the first time today......

..interesting topic.....and from the first page.....it's the Moh's hardness scale...not the Moes hardness scale....lol....just given you a hard time silkpoet.....and I had to find a way to make 
my geological background pay off...I mean really....how many times will I get to talk about the Moh's hardness scale on this site?....lol


----------



## ShoNuff

That store in Beaverton does carry it but they charge $80 for a 50 pound bag!  :x

BTW, they said they carry an even larger grain size the the S or T grade. He said it was almost like really small pebbels. Anyone know anything about this type?


----------



## c.megalodon

i got two 50# bags of the black S grade today in Falls Church, VA. They were $22ea, and were stored outside in a pile under a tarp. The bags were in horrible shape, but the product inside was pristine.

spent about 2hrs rinsing this stuff, man is it diirrrrty. I'm going to rinse it again tomorrow just in case, and throw it in my 75gal. Now if I could just find some nice lava rocks


----------



## c.megalodon

follow up.. i guess I didn't rinse the CQ enough... my water is still pretty cloudy. I'm going to do a 50% water change tomorrow and hope that fixes the problem.


----------



## andrew14

I'm doing a tank with demasoni and yellow labs. Assuming I can get this stuff (I think there's a distributor about an hour away from me), Should I go with the t-grade or the s-grade? I was thinking of black for the color. Does the S-grade still look like sand, or is it really powdery looking?


----------



## c.megalodon

andrew14 said:


> I'm doing a tank with demasoni and yellow labs. Assuming I can get this stuff (I think there's a distributor about an hour away from me), Should I go with the t-grade or the s-grade? I was thinking of black for the color. Does the S-grade still look like sand, or is it really powdery looking?


S grade looks like really fine grain sand, basically little tiny ball bearings. After purchasing 100lbs of S grade in black, and having it in my tank for over a week, I think I have to take it out. My water won't clear up no matter what I do, and I've taken all the rocks out so it has to be the 3M CQ. I've done three 50% water changes, used the Seachem clarity product, even taken out most of the sand and rinsed it again and still the water is hazy.

If you are going to do the 3M, i would suggest the T grade if you can get it. Also if you can get two different colors and mix them, that'll look alot better (like maybe black and buff). Good luck!


----------



## andrew14

Just an update. I live near Atlanta, and the National Pool Tile place in Norcross, GA has 3M Color Quartz in s-grade black for 16.85 per 50 lb. bag. I was going to use the Eco-Complete African Cichlid sand, but this deal is just too good to pass up!

Andrew...


----------



## LoachLover

21 pages... but worth the read since I was only a couple of clicks away from placing my Tahitian Sand order. Black S grade with red lava rock, I'm hoping that will look as good as it sounds to me.


----------



## pdegrand

If anyone is having trouble finding this stuff I found something very close at Sherwin Williams paint. Itâ€™s for their Industrial flooring systems. Itâ€™s called Type S Sand Aggregate or Type T Mortar Topping Aggregate. I found a store about 20 min away and they have it in stock I am going down there to check it out in the next few days. I think it is just repackaged 3m colour quartz. They said it was $26 a bag (50#)


----------



## MrNvgtr

I just picked up 2 x 50 lb bags of the Black 3M CQ S-grade for my 24"x24" setup. Gosh, that was such a tough decision because I really wanted a gray color, but their gray looked a little too light for my taste. I got to page 10 of this thread, but can't stand it anymore. What is the best method to clean this stuff before its read to put in the tank? By the way, its a fresh tank that will be go through the first cycle from scratch.

Michael


----------



## c.megalodon

MrNvgtr said:


> I just picked up 2 x 50 lb bags of the Black 3M CQ S-grade for my 24"x24" setup. Gosh, that was such a tough decision because I really wanted a gray color, but their gray looked a little too light for my taste. I got to page 10 of this thread, but can't stand it anymore. What is the best method to clean this stuff before its read to put in the tank? By the way, its a fresh tank that will be go through the first cycle from scratch.
> 
> Michael


rinse it about 50 times or so. Then maybe a few more for good measure. Then take a break and hit it again.

the stuff is really dirty... but once its clean you'll love it (i have 90lbs or so in my 75g)


----------



## MrNvgtr

Ok, but how do I rinse it? This stuff is thinner than anything and there's a lot of it. Do I do a cup at a time in a flower sifter thingy? That's about 75 cups per bag x 50 times = 3750 sifts! Maybe a giant tea bag method using a pillow case? Someone throw me a bone please.

Michael


----------



## FeatherfinFan

I've never rinsed the black S grade (have heard it's the dirtiest by far) but have cleaned 350 pounds of smoke S grade. I put enough in a 5 gallon bucket to fill it about 1/3rd w/ sand. I power blast the sand until it runs clear out the top of the bucket. I then churn it w/ my hand and blast it again. After the third or 4th blast it's good to go. With the black you may have to go another couple blasts~don't give up, it's worth the effort.


----------



## MrNvgtr

Oops, my public math was a little off. That would be (75x50)x2=7500. Yikes!

Thank you for saving me from that end Brad. I'm assuming you mean pressure sprayer. Actually I would think that a hose with a high pressure nozzle (not quite a pressure sprayer) would be enough. A pressure sprayer would blow the sand into the clouds and then we'd have hail again in May. Anyway, that sounds like a good plan and it shouldn't be too labor intensive with only 100 lbs. My wife and daughter are in Florida for a month, so I've got plenty of time and patience...well, maybe not for using the flower sifter.

Michael


----------



## MrNvgtr

Does anyone have any good pictures of your tank with a darker color S-grade so I can see how it looks? I'm just curious. I keep thinking I should have played it conservative and gotten the courser type. I drove over an hour to get it this morning, so I'm not going to return it that easy. I've just been having second thoughts all day and I'd just like to see a photo of it looking nice to make me feel better.

Michael


----------



## jaybird

I've also seen a tank on this site that has it as a substrate. My understanding is that it works great and is very cheap compared to black sand like Tahitian Moon. The problem is finding someone that carries it. It's intended use is to be mixed in with pool grout. I live in the Charlotte, NC area and called every pool store and pool intstaller. Nobody stocks it as a product to buy and all the pool installers get it already mixed in with the grout. According to the 3M website, the closest place I could order it is out of Ohio. However, I did just find a place in Charlotte called Pyramid Cement that makes their own Colorquartz. Several colors. I bought a 50 pound bag of black for only $11.00. That's a deal. I've yet to convert my tank over to it but it's basically the same as the 3M product. Their website is www.pryamidcement.com if you'd like to check it out.


----------



## J0SH44

Has anyone used an even mix of the black and white T grade 3M colorquartz? I was just wondering how it looked. I was thinking about going to http://www.ntruddock.com/ and picking some up. Does it look pretty good, any pics? Would love to hear some opinions on the right mix. I currently have the African Cichlid Sand (black/white) in a 20 gallon and i like the way it looks. I am just looking for a cheaper alternative for my 90 gallon when i set it up. The 20 gallon took 2 20# (think 20#) bags to cover well so it would be nice to get something cheaper for the 90. It would also be nice if it was a little heavier.


----------



## J0SH44

So after looking around i cannot find anyone else that may carry a similar product to the 3M colorquartz. It looks like i am going to make a trip from columbus to cleveland and pick some up. I figure i will still save money, even though i have to make the 1.75 hour drive. They said the T grade 3M is 25 dollars for a 50 pound bag. Now my big decision is how much black and how much white to get. I like the look of my African Cichlid sand i bought in the store and it is a black and white mix. It looks 50/50 to me but that does not mean it is. Does anyone have any idea on what the proportions of a color mixed with black looks like. 2 bags black to 1 color or 3 bags to 1 or 1 to 1? Anyone have any pics of this in use now?


----------



## shoefreak03

after all this time i see this thread is still sticky. i've used for all my previous tanks buff and it works great. im setting up a new tank now and decided to go with black s grade this time but man the black seems to take alot longer to wash out.

does anyone else have the same problem with black s grade??? i've been washing and rinsing for 2 days straight (only half of the bag) and still it is dirty and leaves an oily film. what makes it worse is that my hands turn all black. any suggestions from anyone who had bought and washed the black color...


----------



## J0SH44

I did purchase 3 bags of black and two of white (grade T) and i did not have any trouble with the black. I rinsed it a few times (it was bad the first two times then after that it was not too bad at all) then let the hose run through it for 10 or 15 minutes and it was good. Now the white on the other hand was impossible to rinse clean. The white just kept turning my water a milky color, eventually it lightened up but never rinsed clean. However, I only used several handfuls as it seems to really take over the black. I actually only used eight scoops (where a scoop was me cupping my hands together and scooping up as much as i could that way) in two 50# bags of black. I think it looks nice, breaks up the black bottom a little but still allows for a good contrast with my Holey Rock.


----------



## mithesaint

JOSH44 - Did you drive to Cleveland to get some? I'm thinking that might be my plan, since I go through there occasionally. How much was it? Was it the place on broadway?


----------



## J0SH44

yeah i drove to NT Ruddock company in cleveland. I got 5 50# bags for 125 bucks. I got the T grade.


----------



## CruzinFerrari

Just picked up on friday and i ran a small test before i put it in my two 55s









two 50lb bags... one buff, one black








first wash








I wasn't sure if the temperature of the sand would affect the temp of the water so i let it sit for a while. In there now is tahian moon stuff... i like it but i decided time for new mix








after (bit cloudy but 10 minutes later its now clear)








Big Yella


----------



## FTLOSM

kana said:


> Just ordered a pre-mix of brown buff and a little bit of white.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Found it in livonia Michigan if anyone is interested. They are going to call me back with the shipping costs.


I am in White Lake MI 48383 and have been trying to find a distributor in the area (within an hour to pick up vs ship), I saw your second post which talked about when it came you would post a picture but never saw a pic, if by chance you see this thread lmk how it went and a few pics would be awesome to see, thinking of mixing buff with white myself...

OR if anyone else in Mid-Michigan knows of a place that sells this stuff let me know,,,

A bit of further reading (going from page 15 to page 16) i see Kana posted the link to the company 
http://www.calidadllc.com/colorquartz.htm 
I did write them but no reply yet, still interested if any other mid michigan folks have any other places to choose from (possibly closer or cheaper) etc.

Will post info and pics of what I end up finding if anything local to mid michigan.

Bill


----------



## FTLOSM

Well I got a strange reply from the sales email at the website i listed in the post above saying he was no longer with the company and the company was no longer in business even, yet the website is up?

Weird, so back to square one for me at the moment, still in mid michigan looking for a local supplier.... wrote 3m and still waiting for their reply as well.


----------



## aquariumjunky

Hey found a place in oregon that can get this stuff 45 a bag with about a week lead time does that sound reasonable? And any suggestions from people out thier how much T grade for a 2x2x5 tank Looking for around a inch I think unless others think more or less is needed 

Mostly keeping central american cichlids 

Steven

Thanks for your mental time and energy


----------



## apistomaster

I have worked in soils and construction materials laboratories for years before retiring. I made some assumptions based on my knowledge of the specific gravity typical for pure quartz to arrive at my estimate that about ~100 lb.s of sand is needed to provide your 2' X 5' tank with a 1 inch layer of sand. I might be off by about 1/8 of an inch. Depends on where your sand falls; Sp.G between 2.65 and 2.75.

The Specific Gravity is how much a unit weight of a material is in comparison to that of water at normal temps=1.0 The Sp.G can be used to calculate the absolute volume of a material.


----------



## Charlutz

I got on 3M's website and found a retail store locator for colorquartz. Just click the where to buy link on the right hand margin. For some reason, I couldn't link directly to it as it retained data. I didn't read back through all 20 pages of the thread to see if someone had posted this before, but saw people were still having trouble finding retailers.


----------



## drewslootdc

Hey guys,
I live in Norther NJ and I was originally looking at the Moon Sand (but soooo expensive)
I found a distributor in Hasbrouck Heights NJ. After the woman picked up the phone, I asked if they carried the stuff and see said yes. Then she asked me how much I wanted. I said it was actually for an aquarium, and she started laughing. This stuff is catching on and she mentioned that so many people have been buying it that there is now a 3 bag minimum for the stuff. The price seems to be going up as well. Its now 28.99 for a 50 lb. of the T and 25.99 for a bag of the S.
So its catching on...

just figured you'd like to know

attached is the link to 3M Material Safety Data Sheet it seems pretty safe except for some allergic reactions and two cancer causing materials (but only in the state of california) :lol: 
http://agsco.thomasnet.com/Asset/Colorquartz-MSDS.pdf


----------



## FTLOSM

I am still trying to find this in Mid Michigan locally vs paying shipping, found a place in Ohio that is willing to sell me 50lb bags for $18.65 per bag but shipping for 3 bags will be $30, + for each 50lb bag they ship it in buckets so an additional $7 per bucket ($21 total for 3 buckets).

Just over $100 to the door for 3 bags / 150 lbs, would probably go with 1 bag white, 1 bag buff, 1 bag tan and mxi it, all S grade...

Still would really like to find it more locally, made lots of calls and emails, even checked the 3m site for MI dealers yet after calling emailing etc they don't even know what the heck I am talking about (very frustrating)...

And I saw in earlier posts (after reading all 22 pages of this thread) the place in Livonia MI but they are out of business according to the message i got after emailing them...

So at this point to get this I am looking at just over $100 for 3 bags shipped in buckets, had not read anything from anyone about having to purchase buckets to have the product shipped, wondered if anyone else had seen or heard of this (needing buckets to ship)?

The place was out of cleveland oh NT Ruddock that quoted me those prices and info.

Bill


----------



## FTLOSM

Finally got some help getting some locally (a pool contractor) but it cost me $35 a bag (very annoying vs price quotes of $18 other places yet I would have to ship it anyways)...

It was local with no shipping, so I guess it all worked out about even but it is here in hand.

Igot one bag of buff one of white 50lbs each S grade, wife liked that mix the best from the samples sent to me by 3m (mixed up a few in a bowl for comparison).

So I have 100lbs and a 75 gallon tank, hopefully it will be enough to finish things off here.

Gotta go start re-reading this long thread for the best way to rinse this well before placing in the tank, BIG plans and changes in store for my tank (many things) over the next few weeks, will post a link to before and after pics once I am done.

Bill


----------



## FTLOSM

BTW I have a few of these tiny sample tubes of T & S grade here that we didn't open/mess with, if someone is near White Lake MI 48383 pm me and you are welcome to stop on by and pick-em up free of course!

Once I do my tank up I might even have about 20-30lbs of buff left over, wife seemed to like the mix a bit on the lighter side.

We experimented with the S grade tubes of white buff tan (so they are mixed and are sorta a mess looking after putting a tad of this or that into it just to see what would happen (black, blue, green etc) but the rest are all here unused (about 19 tubes) and are great for just seeing the product in terms of grain and whatnot in person etc.

Bill


----------



## the_tuna

FTLOSM said:


> So I have 100lbs and a 75 gallon tank, hopefully it will be enough to finish things off here.


should be plenty - the fun part is getting the ratio to where you like it. And, just rinse, rinse, rinse...


----------



## daniel505480

Wholy cow! I just endured a 3 day epic battle to find 3M colorquartz in Arizona. After calling the local rep 3 times and receiving no phone call back I finally called 3M. They were not much help either because they just pointed me towards their online vendor list I was already looking through. I spent 2 days calling their vendors and every single one of them told me they wouldn't sell to me, and didn't know where they got theirs from either. Go figure!

but I wouldn't be so happy if I didn't finally find the place just a minute ago. What a struggle it was though!

Its Mason Mart in case anyone in Phoenix is interested.


----------



## dialicious

For any *Canadians* looking for this is *Ontario*, I found a supplier.
http://www.durock.com./ ( 1-888-238-6345 ) in Woodbridge sells the S-Grade for aprox 20$/bag

I'll confirm the price once I pick it up tomorrow.


----------



## Mix

For those in my area (Charlotte, NC) that care to know:I just called NT Ruddock (440-439-4976) and got pricing on black T, white T, black S, smoke S, and white S. The T versions are $22.95 per 50lb bag. The S version is $19.95 per 50lb bag. You call Ohio (I think it is) then pick it up at the local warehouse. Call in the am and pick it up that afternoon (if it is in stock).

Funny thing is, the guy asked me what my company did. I said it was for personal use. He then asked, "If this for your aquarium?" :lol: The word seems to be out. He said he gets lots of calls now days for aquariums.

I now know what the substrate in my new tank will be. Now if I can just decide on the size & colors I want. :?


----------



## JeffreyL

Hey Mix, small world. lol I just picked up 50lbs of red t-grade from Ruddock's local warehouse. Very easy once I figured out the drill. Heck they even put the bag in my trunk. After bringing it to the dock door with a fork truck. lol

I decided on the t-grade in red as I already have enough tanks with fine, black sand. Just rinsed some & put in a 2 gal with water. Looks good and the t is a bit larger than sand, a bit smaller than fine gravel. If I EVER get the 55 gal Tang tank up & running, I will post pics.


----------



## jhunbj

dialicious said:


> For any *Canadians* looking for this is *Ontario*, I found a supplier.
> http://www.durock.com./ ( 1-888-238-6345 ) in Woodbridge sells the S-Grade for aprox 20$/bag
> 
> I'll confirm the price once I pick it up tomorrow.


How many color choices do they have? Darn I was just 5 minutes away from that Durock place last Friday, when I pick-up a used tank in Woodbridge. :x


----------



## Mix

jhunbj said:


> How many color choices do they have?


The link is at the start of this thread, but here you go again.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ColorQuartz/HomePage/Products/Crystals/


----------



## Guest

How do you get samples of the colorquartz stuff from 3m?


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## Mix

From what I have read in this thread, you just call 3M.


----------



## Guest

Mix said:


> From what I have read in this thread, you just call 3M.


And....what? Ask for samples of their colorquartz product?


----------



## muskie4817

*pastarican*
I am new to this forum and beginning to set up a cichlid tank. I am from Reynoldsburg and saw you are from Lewis Center. Have you had any luck finding the color quartz? I would like to get your opinion on some stuff.


----------



## Guest

Got my samples. I like the color selection...

My question for you guys though, is which colors would look most natural in the tank...it's going to be a 265gallon Hap/peacock/someTang tank (Perfecto mfg, I'll be using two double light strips from them...so basic fluorescents I guess) with the fish ranging from a minimum of around 6" to a max of around 18" (peacocks/copads to Aristochromis c., Fossorochromis rostratus, Lichnochromis a.).

I haven't looked at any of the samples under water yet but from what I saw the colors Buff, peach, tan, coral rose, and plum (I used this as a reference pic, since I don't have my samples with me at the moment:







).

What in your opinions is a good natural looking substrate? I don't want anything insanely bright, but I don't want anything dark... What would look more as a natural sand/color substrate? It doesn't matter if it's the same color as the substrate in the actual rift lakes either...

If anybody has any, could you post tank pictures with those colors of 3m colorquartz I mentioned?

Thanks in advance,
~Ed


----------



## ashilli48

[


> quote="FTLOSM"]Finally got some help getting some locally (a pool contractor) but it cost me $35 a bag (very annoying vs price quotes of $18 other places yet I would have to ship it anyways)...
> 
> It was local with no shipping, so I guess it all worked out about even but it is here in hand.
> 
> Igot one bag of buff one of white 50lbs each S grade, wife liked that mix the best from the samples sent to me by 3m (mixed up a few in a bowl for comparison).
> 
> So I have 100lbs and a 75 gallon tank, hopefully it will be enough to finish things off here.
> 
> Gotta go start re-reading this long thread for the best way to rinse this well before placing in the tank, BIG plans and changes in store for my tank (many things) over the next few weeks, will post a link to before and after pics once I am done.


How did you go about getting 3M to send you samples? Were they free? What size/amount? Thanks.


----------



## Guest

ashilli48 said:


> [
> 
> 
> 
> quote="FTLOSM"]Finally got some help getting some locally (a pool contractor) but it cost me $35 a bag (very annoying vs price quotes of $18 other places yet I would have to ship it anyways)...
> 
> It was local with no shipping, so I guess it all worked out about even but it is here in hand.
> 
> Igot one bag of buff one of white 50lbs each S grade, wife liked that mix the best from the samples sent to me by 3m (mixed up a few in a bowl for comparison).
> 
> So I have 100lbs and a 75 gallon tank, hopefully it will be enough to finish things off here.
> 
> Gotta go start re-reading this long thread for the best way to rinse this well before placing in the tank, BIG plans and changes in store for my tank (many things) over the next few weeks, will post a link to before and after pics once I am done.
> 
> 
> 
> How did you go about getting 3M to send you samples? Were they free? What size/amount? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Email and ask or call and ask...that's what I did and I got samples in about a week.


----------



## ashilli48

Cool. Thank you.


----------



## rewind

I just found some in the Denver, CO area...

Rio Grande Co
201 Santa Fe Drive, Denver,Co 80223
303/825-2211
Fax 303/629-0417

I was going to go with all-purpose sand, but I think I'll try a mix of brown, tan, white and black in my new 150G. I wish I could find Texblast, but the distributor in CO stopped carrying it last year. I think that the colorquartz mix will look nice though.


----------



## Deeda

3M has added a new search feature enabling you to find a distributor. Just Google the word Colorquartz and check it out.


----------



## ashilli48

What's the going rate for color quartz that any of you out there have found? I found it here in Tampa, 55 cents a pound for S and 66 cents a pound for the T. 50 lb bags of course. $27.50 and $33. I currently have 3M sendind me the samples so I can decide on the color or colors.


----------



## Guest

ashilli48 said:


> What's the going rate for color quartz that any of you out there have found? I found it here in Tampa, 55 cents a pound for S and 66 cents a pound for the T. 50 lb bags of course. $27.50 and $33. I currently have 3M sendind me the samples so I can decide on the color or colors.


Near me its $25 per 50lb bag


----------



## rewind

ashilli48 said:


> What's the going rate for color quartz that any of you out there have found?


The distributor in Denver is asking $18 and change for 50lb bags of the S grade colorquartz.


----------



## cichlids&amp;baseball

I just put an order in at National Pool Tile here in sacramento, ca for 1 bag Black and 1 bag Tahoe, which is the blue gray color... how do you guys think that will look in my 125 gallon?

T grade by the way and it was 19 and change per bag


----------



## Buckdog

Hey everyone. 
I've been lurking in and out on this forum - particularly on the Colorquartz issue. 
I found out some info today and since I've been getting info from this forum I thought it only fair to share. If it helps then fine.

I talked to an industrial mineral tech at 3M today. They are fully aware that Colorquartz is being used as a substrate. However, they will not endorse it just yet. He says they havent tested it as of yet as a suitable substrate. But if you read between the lines, it is inert.

Last week I got what I thought was a 50 lb bag of black Colorquartz from a pool contractor supply. It turned out to be roofing granules. The bag had a sticker over the front that said "pebbles". They said it was the same as Colorquartz.

I called 3M to get some answers. What I got was known as "Accent Stone". Apparently years ago this was a first run of some sort of experiment of roofing granules as a pool substrate. It has the same basic ceramic coating that is on Colorquartz. But the rock underneath is different. It's Andesite or something similar, not quartz. The stuff I had was about five years old. The "Pebbles" label was put on at the factory.

The 3M guy was not concerned about the Accent Stone harming fish. However, the newer roofing granules has a special oil coating on it that allows it to adhere to asphalt better. This will harm fish. The reason I bring this up is that some folks are looking at the roofing granules as another substrate alternative. It's a smart move but do the research. Make sure it is *INERT*

The 3M tech said if you get the roofing granules put some in a glass of water and look for the telltale signs of oil - iridescence, clumping, etc. If you see it, dont use it.

If I had to do it over I would buy a bag with "Colorquartz" on it. It cost the same so stick with the good stuff. But I like the size of the granules of the roofing stuff so I'm going to keep it and test it out.

Hope this helps some folks.


----------



## joevc1

Marduk said:


> ashilli48 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the going rate for color quartz that any of you out there have found? I found it here in Tampa, 55 cents a pound for S and 66 cents a pound for the T. 50 lb bags of course. $27.50 and $33. I currently have 3M sendind me the samples so I can decide on the color or colors.
> 
> 
> 
> Near me its $25 per 50lb bag
Click to expand...

Marduk, where have you seen it in NJ?


----------



## Guest

joevc1 said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ashilli48 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the going rate for color quartz that any of you out there have found? I found it here in Tampa, 55 cents a pound for S and 66 cents a pound for the T. 50 lb bags of course. $27.50 and $33. I currently have 3M sendind me the samples so I can decide on the color or colors.
> 
> 
> 
> Near me its $25 per 50lb bag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Marduk, where have you seen it in NJ?
Click to expand...

I got it at Agsco. Here's their website: www.agsco.com


----------



## joevc1

Thanks.


----------



## fishwolfe

you guys are lucky :thumb: out here its $80 a bag includeing shipping since no one stocks it. :x


----------



## Guest

fishwolfe said:


> you guys are lucky :thumb: out here its $80 a bag includeing shipping since no one stocks it. :x


That's ridiculous...


----------



## fishwolfe

yeah i called 3m and they gave me the nw sales rep.hes in seattle and i could drive 3hrs up there for a $20 bag or ship one for $80 :? maybe i'll talk the wife into a nice weekend getaway in seattle and then pick up a bag or two


----------



## cichlids&amp;baseball

marduk.. if there are any national pool and tile places near you they will most likely ship it to their store free. They shipped my colors in from another national pool and tile and I didnt pay shipping


----------



## t0p_sh0tta

So, I live in Connecticut and I've only found 1 distributor that is willing to sell to me. Unfortunately the place is 2 hours away in NJ. They've offered to ship, but it ends up being more expensive than Black Tahitian Moon Sand from the LFS.

Is there anybody in the Connecticut area that has been able to purchase this locally? I have a friend that picked some up from a distributor in Terryville, CT, but they won't sell to me. This sucks.


----------



## stslimited84

This thread is massive! lol.

I just found some right near me for 16.40 per bag for S grade black, and 20.53 per bag for T grade black! sweet!

Which do you think is better to use? The S or the T grade?

and now I also have to figure out what colors to pick. I'm torn, I know black brings out the colors, but its not natural looking. I cant decide. Thoughts?


----------



## Deeda

I have S-grade & it is very fine (.21mm) so gets kicked up by the fish. Must keep your filter intakes at least 4 to 6 inches from the sand bed. Other than that I love it.


----------



## stslimited84

I've never used sand before so my question is as follows...when vacuuming the CQ do you actually stick the siphon into the sand? I've seen posts about just hovering the siphon about .5 inch above the sand. Is that the prefered method?

Also, if that is the case, how do you get any debris that might be below the surface of the CQ?


----------



## t0p_sh0tta

I've found a vendor in central Connecticut if anybody is having a hard time coming across Color Quartz.


----------



## nutsfu

I put about 75 lbs of S grade white into my 75 gallon tank and it has made the water very cloudy. I rinsed it in buckets several times before putting it in, I even did several 90% water changes (there are no fish in the tank yet). The cloudiness still hasn't gone away after a week of being in the tank. Has anybody gotten white colorquartz to be perfectly clean, with no cloudiness?

I am afraid that I will have to get rid of it if I cant get this resolved


----------



## Guest

nutsfu said:


> I put about 75 lbs of S grade white into my 75 gallon tank and it has made the water very cloudy. I rinsed it in buckets several times before putting it in, I even did several 90% water changes (there are no fish in the tank yet). The cloudiness still hasn't gone away after a week of being in the tank. Has anybody gotten white colorquartz to be perfectly clean, with no cloudiness?
> 
> I am afraid that I will have to get rid of it if I cant get this resolved


Get the really fine felt filter pads and fresh carbon in your filter, and keep doing water changes. It should go away soon.

If not, you could try one of those water clarifier products.

~Ed


----------



## ahyro962

i used a pwer head with a fine kitchen sponge on the intake side of it and it really helped clear up my water.


----------



## green belair

If anyone's interested I can tell you why 3M doesn't pursue the aquarim trade with their Color Quartz.


----------



## TrashmanNYC

why?


----------



## TrashmanNYC

why?


----------



## TrashmanNYC

why? :-?


----------



## TrashmanNYC

why? :-?


----------



## green belair

Well, it's got to do with whatever the stuff is made from and how 3M has based and worded their patent as well as their MSDSs.

Example, I wanted to use the 3M reflective tape for an idea I had for the pet trade. It wasn't worth it - to 3M - to try and get the patent because everything had been written specifically for the use in the auto industry. For use in the pet trade 3M would have had to take every single componet/chemical that makes up that tape and make sure it would in no way harm an animal if like they chewed on it. It was too cost prohibitive to do that.

Same with the 3M Color Quartz. It's been specifically geared and tested and proven safe for the application it's intended for. It's not intended for the pet trade and would be cost prohibitive to make it such.

You can use it that way if you choose. But should it kill every single one of your fish 3M in no way could be libel as you're using it for a purpose it is not intended for.

Does any of that make sense?


----------



## Guest

green belair said:


> Well, it's got to do with whatever the stuff is made from and how 3M has based and worded their patent as well as their MSDSs.
> 
> Example, I wanted to use the 3M reflective tape for an idea I had for the pet trade. It wasn't worth it - to 3M - to try and get the patent because everything had been written specifically for the use in the auto industry. For use in the pet trade 3M would have had to take every single componet/chemical that makes up that tape and make sure it would in no way harm an animal if like they chewed on it. It was too cost prohibitive to do that.
> 
> Same with the 3M Color Quartz. It's been specifically geared and tested and proven safe for the application it's intended for. It's not intended for the pet trade and would be cost prohibitive to make it such.
> 
> You can use it that way if you choose. But should it kill every single one of your fish 3M in no way could be libel as you're using it for a purpose it is not intended for.
> 
> Does any of that make sense?


Well pretty much with any product that's even approved for aquarium use you can't hold the company liable for loss of fish.

colorquartz is inert, ceramic coated quartz crystals. It shouldn't pose any harm to fish.. It's pretty much safe unless you sand blast it without a breathing mask on because the blasted dust has silica in it, which according to california (alongside air, water, lead, fire, cars, global warming, and gas) can be a carcinogen.


----------



## ksane

I found this thread a few wks ago and read it all the way through several times. I found a seller of this sand here in the Oklahoma City area and picked up 5 bags yesterday. I'm going back tomorrow (after they get their new shipment for the week) and picking up 2 more bags. I got all 'S' grade-the 'T' grade was too rough and felt sharp (they had all the samples), I love the 'S' grade though! It's super soft and heavy, rinses GREAT. I've got the smoke, black, plum & tan and will be picking up 2 bags of the dark brown (real pretty) tomorow. It was from $18-$25 per 50 lbs depending on color. They told me they almost get more requests for this stuff for aquariums than for pools lol!
I'm SO glad I found this thread, I love this stuff. I'd been using Tahitian Moon Sand and found out (after my catfish lost all their whiskers) that it's made of glass :-/ I had to replace the Tahitian Moon sand from a 100 gal tank and a 125 gal tank-real frustrating.
The dark brown color is going in a 250 gal tank with an Oscar & Plec, it'll work perfect to disquise the plec poo.
Mitzi


----------



## nicholas316

so s grade is fine like tahitian moon? and same difficulty to clean? (sand gettng sucked up).

and t-grade is like gravel, but sharp and rough?

also, where can i get in ontario canada? (i live in durham ajax pickering area)


----------



## ksane

Yes, the S grade is fine like Tahitian Moon but I did my 1st water change with it tonight and it's much heavier than Tahitian Moon so it didn't get sucked up into the "gravel nozzle" at all. When I had the Tahitian Moon sand I had to kink the hose all the time to let the sand drop back down the nozzle. I didn't have to do that at all with this 3M Color Quartz, it feels real soft, but it's heavy. A lot better than play sand, too. I can't say it enough-I LOVE this stuff. I've got my intake tubes 2" from the sand bed and NONE gets sucked into my filters.
I felt the samples they had and the T grade did feel sharp. The web sight said it's angular, not uniform and smooth like the S grade. I've got Cichlids, Loaches, and several kinds of catfish-all sift through the sand-which is the reason I wanted the soft stuff versus the rougher grain.
I have no idea where you can get it in Canada. Check their websight (listed in previous posts, I don't have it here off-hand) and see if you can get an idea of where to buy it.
Mitzi


----------



## stslimited84

I have the black S grade (400 lbs of it, lol) :lol:

I love it. Best purchase I've made for substrate 8)

It is my first experience with sand as a substrate, and it is fantastic!


----------



## nicholas316

thanx


----------



## stslimited84

np


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## chillout

Whats with the T grade being sharp? I have a bag that I haven't opened yet but after reading you guys sayings its sharp I'm afraid to use it? acquired it in a trade, it was all he had and hadn't tried it himself. Never seen a sample either so I don't know what the S looks like either.


----------



## J0SH44

I purchased several bags of the T-Grade and have been using it for almost a year now. I use Black with a little white mixed in (and when i say little i mean a little, only takes a little to be noticed). Anyways I have not had any problems, the fish love to sift through it and are constantly making piles of it and diging trenches. I also have a tank with the "African cichlid sand" that i purchased in store which is a bit smaller than the T-Grade 3M. Personally I like the T-Grade because it is harder to suck up (than the sand wich kind of floats a little when stirred up), I am not sure how easily the S is syphoned up but at times I even syphon up the T so I am sure the S can be syphoned up as well. If you were to rub the T grade in your hands fairly hard it may feel rough compared to the softer sandy S grade. I don't think you can go wrong choosing either one, but I just went with the T because i wanted something a little heavier. But really don't worry about the T with your fish. I have yellow labs, acei, red zebras and afra cobue and they all seem to love the 3M. Plus it makes it easy to clean, all the 'debris' sits on top and doesn't fall down in like it does with pebbles (which i have in another aquarium). To sum it up don't worry about it being "sharp" it won't hurt your fish.


----------



## chillout

Thanks J0SH44

Makes me feel better about using it. I'm going for straight black but if I decide to have a little texture later I will mix a bit of PFS in with it.


----------



## lamster

Is anyone using straight white Colorquartz substrate in their tank? I just picked up 2 bags of white T-grade to use in my 70gal, but I'm starting to think that it's _TOO_ white

If anyone has pics of tanks w/ pure white CQ, please post it.

Thanks.

BTW, if anyone wants this stuff in central Texas, SCP Distributors in Austin (2124 E. St. Elmo) has tons of it in stock for $18.xx a bag, and they'll sell to the public.

This is what the bags look like:


----------



## Sakura

I think I have been through most, if not all, the pages of this thread and pardon me if I overlooked... has anyone found this in central Virginia? I found one pool installation place that has some colors, but not black which is the very color I want.


----------



## J0SH44

lamster said:


> Is anyone using straight white Colorquartz substrate in their tank? I just picked up 2 bags of white T-grade to use in my 70gal, but I'm starting to think that it's _TOO_ white
> 
> If anyone has pics of tanks w/ pure white CQ, please post it.
> 
> Thanks.


I used a combo of black and white myself but I needed so little white that my Dad used what was left for his aquarium. Here is a pic of his aquarium, there are a bunch of yellow labs in there somewhere, even a few babies:


----------



## lamster

J0SH44 said:


> I used a combo of black and white myself but I needed so little white that my Dad used what was left for his aquarium. Here is a pic of his aquarium, there are a bunch of yellow labs in there somewhere, even a few babies:


Thanks for posting the pic. It doesn't look that bad. I guess I'll try the white to see how it looks in my tank, and I could mix in some buff color if it's too white.


----------



## mambee

I use white in my 150 gallon tank. It looks great but is a bit too bright.

Mike


----------



## f u z z

Has anyone noticed an "oily" residue while washing their cq?


----------



## J0SH44

Yeah, I know what you are talking about. Where I noticed it was in my black cq. I was able to rinse it away for the most part. I also have a filter that has the ability to take water from the surface of the aquarium. So after setting up a cq tank I filter the water to remove any particulates from the water and the water's surface. I have used cq in 4 tanks, they all have the black and all had some of that 'oily' residue when cleaning the cq and I haven't lost any fish yet, in fact most are breeding way too much. As for the filter, it is not the only filter I use but I do like to use it for its surface skimming ability, here is a link to it.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=16729


----------



## teqvet

f u z z said:


> Has anyone noticed an "oily" residue while washing their cq?


Yes.. this rinsed away after a few good rinsings. A 55lb bag took me about an hour to rinse to my liking. The filters took care of anything remaining.


----------



## f u z z

Ok cool. I never saw anything about that in this thread, so i wanted to make sure it was not some kind of chemical that had leached through the bags while at the store.

I have three bags of black T in a new clean trash can, and it has taken me a few hours to get it nice and clean. But i think it's fun washing substrate! :roll:


----------



## J0SH44

yeah, the only thing with the black is it stains (including the hands). But i thought it washed up pretty quickly, especially compared to the white that i mixed in it later on. The white never washed super clear, started out looking like whole milk and ended up skim milk. I used it like that after rinsing it many many times and it never clouded up the water or anything. Worked out just fine. I only used a very small amount mixed into two bags of black and I think it looks good. Kind of breaks up the black, but i do have a solid black aquarium too and that looks good as well. It is really a win win, whatever look you are going for.


----------



## stslimited84

I have black in my 29 gal. Half of my 75 gal is black (i still have to switch the other half of the tank to black sand), and my new tank will probably have the black cq in it as well.

You cant go wrong, it looks great!


----------



## teqvet

I used dishwashing gloves, and honestly didn't see any real staining. My finger tips on the gloves were colored but it came right off with some soap. I washed it in a 75gallon cooler, and it rinsed right out - not sure why folks have a hard time with it staining.


----------



## dergibog

Hello everyone. I know this thread is HUGE. I've read the whole thing through and the reason I'm adding is because I'm interested in a tan and buff mix. There were pictures posted by someone but I can't for the life of me remember who anymore. Anyway, a lot of the pics posted aren't working now so I was wondering if anyone who has tried/used the buff/tan mix could post pics so I can see what it looks like. I'm tryin' to go for a more natural look. 
Thanks SO much.


----------



## bcbulldog32

If you are having problems finding the 3M quartz sand in your area. The site below allows you to search for sand dealers in your area. I was able to find a concrete supplier which carries the sand through the site. Hope this helps.

http://www.thomasnet.com/products/silic ... 203-1.html


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## DISCIPLE

*** been using 3m for a few years and i get mine from pool contractors and sealant companies. the latter being cheaper. also you may have to ask for supervisors because a couple of times the person answering the phone has no idea what you are referring to. good luck. :thumb:


----------



## toffee

DISCIPLE said:


> I've been using 3m for a few years and i get mine from pool contractors and sealant companies. the latter being cheaper. also you may have to ask for supervisors because a couple of times the person answering the phone has no idea what you are referring to. good luck. :thumb:


In your experience, do you have to vacuum? Do fish waste sorta just floating on top of them?


----------



## Deeda

I have the S-grade. Some minor vacuuming unless you can direct powerhead to sweep the surface. I have an 8" plec & his poop collects in a corner. Easy to vacuum up.


----------



## toffee

If poop do not migrate into the 3M substrate, and they just float or stay on top of the substrate. Wouldn't it be pretty close to having a bare bottom or substrate-less tank?

One wonders if the poop just stay on top of the 3M stuff and do not get vacuumed, what will happen? Will they eventually biodegrade, ie disappear or they got suck into the filter inlet after the poop degrade into very fine particles?

So other than visual effect, ie poop gethering around going through biodegradation, there aren't any real harm in not vacuuming?


----------



## Deeda

It is still a good idea to vacuum the substrate. Any fish, plant or food waste needs to be removed from the tank on a regular basis because it contributes to water quality. The deeper your substrate, the more you need to keep up on the cleaning. Trapped debris in the substrate also needs to be removed. I stir up my S-grade regularly and it's only 1" deep.


----------



## DISCIPLE

i vacuum once a week with water changes and it is easy to maintain. the pleco leaves the most and smetimes i just net it out if the filters dont get it.


----------



## AU Chief

The only place in Alabama that sells this stuff was closed down, so I am completely out of luck unless I want to pay shipping, which is not really an option. This really sucks b/c this stuff looks great and is cheap.


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## Guest

AU Chief said:


> The only place in Alabama that sells this stuff was closed down, so I am completely out of luck unless I want to pay shipping, which is not really an option. This really sucks b/c this stuff looks great and is cheap.


You drive out of state, or call lots of pool companies to see if they have it.


----------



## gbleeker

Marduk said:


> AU Chief said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only place in Alabama that sells this stuff was closed down, so I am completely out of luck unless I want to pay shipping, which is not really an option. This really sucks b/c this stuff looks great and is cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> You drive out of state, or call lots of pool companies to see if they have it.
Click to expand...

But Marduk it doesn't matter if pool companies have it, as shipping is over $30 a bag. $60 a bag for 50 pounds of anything is too much.


----------



## AU Chief

I might as well have it shipped is I'm going to drive to the closest place that has it (Atlanta), b/c after paying for gas, its just not worth it. I may however, just wait till the ACA Conference and then get some. Of course there are probably others thinking the same thing...


----------



## mccluggen

Just ran across this place:

http://www.vbpstore.com/50-lb-bag-of-3m ... uartz.html

Shipping is hazy though. Could make or break the price.


----------



## Guest

gbleeker said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AU Chief said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only place in Alabama that sells this stuff was closed down, so I am completely out of luck unless I want to pay shipping, which is not really an option. This really sucks b/c this stuff looks great and is cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> You drive out of state, or call lots of pool companies to see if they have it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But Marduk it doesn't matter if pool companies have it, as shipping is over $30 a bag. $60 a bag for 50 pounds of anything is too much.
Click to expand...

You can drive to them...I drove an hour and a half to get mine...and it was worth it...they even gave me a free bag too.


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## Philg

Does anyone know where to get black s grade 3M color quartz in San Diego?


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## dreday

here

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... /HomePage/

this is there site. go to where to buy. then select distributor and your state and it will list all current distributors in your state. then just look for your city or closet one. i just got some s grade white and have my fingers crossed.

by the way i did not read this entire post but was wondering if anyone has ever had the anaerobic gas problem ie black pockets in sand. with either grade.

ps also i paid 33$ for 50lbs. not bad but i heard pool filter sand is cheaper and made of quartz as well. :fish:


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## rickyricardo

Paid $50.00 a bag for this stuff!  Had the same feeling when I paid for it as I do when I fill my truck up with fuel. You know you are overpaying for something but you feel you need it anyway. For me location was a problem. I live in Ma. only a couple distributors and none would sell to me. Could have got it in Pa for like $22 a bag but then would have had to pay $25 per 50 lb pail for UPS. And yes I too was also told that UPS would not accept bags, had to ship in pails. Even had one distributor wanting to charge me $28 for the labor to remove from bags and put in pails.

I have been dealing with the nightmare now for at least 2 weeks. I finally caved in and over paid for it just to end the headaches. It better be worth it! :thumb:

By the way wound up buying from a local pool/spa dealer.


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## dkreef

there are tons of places that sell it here in Socal. bought mine at $18 each bag.

For those of you using 3M, the real reason i picked 3M was i didnt want to deal with fish poops/algae showing in white sand. i was hoping black color will hide any algae or detritus. is this the case?


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## dialicious

On my black s grade color quartz, any detritus shows up like a sore thumb.
But since I had to tear the tank down to move, I'm going to install some UGJ when I rebuild and they should take care of it.


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## faile486

http://www.vbpstore.com/50-lb-bag-of-3m ... uartz.html

Shipping is free in the US!


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## fishwolfe

awesome find!!!!! :thumb:


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## crotalusfan

I just ordered a 50 pound bag for $24, w/free shipping!!!! Thanks for the link mccluggen and faile486. I can't wait to redo my tanks. (I should have ordered more).


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## rickyricardo

faile486 said:


> http://www.vbpstore.com/50-lb-bag-of-3m-color-quartz.html
> 
> Shipping is free in the US!


****.........****..........****.........!!!!!!!!!!!!! :x

Good find for others though. Good of you to post that.

rick


----------



## sean151

faile486 said:


> http://www.vbpstore.com/50-lb-bag-of-3m-color-quartz.html
> 
> Shipping is free in the US!


Make that free to the continental US :wink: I don't see how they can make money, let alone break even with that. I mean to send the sand from CA to WA is still $50 with UPS and I'm guessing it's less with the bulk use discounts with the shipper or something. I couldn't imagine sending it to Maine or anyone on the east coast with the cost of shipping a 50# bag. All I know is I'm in Spain right now and ordered my sand for when I get back. Now to order my shells


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## faile486

Heh, didn't realize someone else beat me to it ^.^ And yes, I should have stated continental US 

No idea how they make money on it either...I've got at least one tank that it's going in, and I'll probably have 25 lbs left over - don't know where I'm going to store it = /


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## kerbchek

faile486 said:


> http://www.vbpstore.com/50-lb-bag-of-3m-color-quartz.html
> 
> Shipping is free in the US!


This was an amazing find... wow.........


----------



## Philg

Thanks. *** been looking for a supplier of 3M quartz


----------



## faile486

Mine got here today!! One of the benefits of living so close to Long Beach XD I'm going to have to wait for my husband to get home before I can see it though, I can't get the lid off the bucket = /

Mine came FedEx ground.


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## gusto

I see people saying they paid $ 24.00 w/ free shipping from these guys http://www.vbpstore.com/50-lb-bag-of-3m ... uartz.html.

I just went to go order and it was $38.79 per bag. am I missing something. also will this sand scratch the glass more


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## dreday

no it wont scratch the glass. it is not that rough. i have the s-grade and it is great. i just need some more. 50lbs is not quite enough for my 75g mbuna tank. after rinsing i ended up with about 45lb. but it only clouded the tank for like 1 hour. good stuff.


----------



## D-007

gusto said:


> I see people saying they paid $ 24.00 w/ free shipping from these guys http://www.vbpstore.com/50-lb-bag-of-3m ... uartz.html.
> 
> I just went to go order and it was $38.79 per bag. am I missing something. also will this sand scratch the glass more


'S' grade has rounder edges to each grain, so it will not scratch your glass more. I also noticed it was $38.79 a bag, so I guess it went up in price over the past few weeks. Still, at that price it is a great deal considering it is delivered to your door. :thumb:

Also, to cut down on the cloudyness of the water if you are setting up a new tank - after rinsing the sand/quartz (*really, really well*), put 4 to 6 inches of water into the tank, then slowly add the sand/quartz. Once it's all in, leave the tank for about 30 minutes, then slowly add the rest of your water (I use a hose and a bottle).


----------



## gusto

yes $38.79 is still a good price but thats a large jump from $ 22.00 in a few weeks, but I gas with the price of gas and shipping it's to be expected.

Thanks Gus


----------



## dreday

i drive about 20 mins to pick mine up for 30$. not sure how much the shipping would be... :fish:


----------



## hey_wood1981

http://www.vbpstore.com/50-lb-bag-of-3m ... uartz.html

so is this stuff actually sand or crystals?

i have very fine white silica sand, will the 3m grade s be similar in grain size and texture?


----------



## crotalusfan

It will. It is actually silica sand with a colored quartz coating. Hence the name, "colorquartz." I do have a question, if anyone knows. I recently went to a local pool supply place to buy my black colorquartz. When I got there, the price was 15 dollars more than I had been quoted on the phone. :-? After looking into it, the woman helping me, realized I had been quoted the price for "SpectraQuartz" from a company called fairmount. She said it was identical, chemically. (Silica sand coated with quartz) She also showed me a little bit of each, sitting next to each other. I bought it, and love it. :thumb: I was just wondering if anyone knew anything about it. Oh yeah. I had the option of fine (s) or coarse (t), with coarse being a little more expensive.


----------



## rickyricardo




----------



## dreday

nice tank. :fish:


----------



## exasperatus2002

pastarican said:


> I still think that its cheaper than Tahitian Moon...I think I will be getting it, but right now, we're in the process of selling our house...I'm not about to set up a tank to take it apart again. So, I've gotta wait til June/July to get it. Now here is the REALLY tough part....West Africans or South American Dwarfs? :lol:


I agree, tahitian moon sand goes for $19.99, at dr foster & smith, for 20 lbs and the 3m is in a 50 lb bag.


----------



## stixx

Is 3m the one of the types of sands used in sandblasting and if so can I use some of the other sands used for sandblasting found in this here http://www.kramerindustriesonline.com/b ... -media.htm with of course the exception of the steel, walnut, and corn cob.


----------



## Deeda

The 3M colorquartz is used for swimming pool coatings & garage floor coatings.


----------



## exasperatus2002

I called them looking for a local supplier and the guy at 3m told me that though they'd never tested it for aquarium use, the ACA has notified them that its good. I also gave him our web address.


----------



## fishwolfe

now the price will go up :roll:


----------



## stixx

would anyone have an idea where I'd be able to pick up a bag in the NYC Manhattan area?


----------



## hey_wood1981

i'm rinsing my black, 3m colorquartz and wow this is taking a really long time just to do 50lbs.


----------



## barbarian206

stixx said:


> would anyone have an idea where I'd be able to pick up a bag in the NYC Manhattan area?


 stixx your not gonna find it here in nyc you would have to order it from a company in conn. or n.j. but if you want black beauty sand blasting sand ill give it to you free my company uses it by the ton we have 100 lb. bags its called reed sandblasting sand and its black i used it in my 30 gal. now im waiting for winter to get my background and i plan on using it with my 55 gal africans malawi tank. =D> :fish: :fish:


----------



## skwestle

Heres a pic of my S grade 3M Colorquartz in my 260g I mixed 2 bags of brown with a little bit of buff. The fish in the pick are my Blue Gene JDs that just spawned.


----------



## stixx

Your located in queens I grew up in queens. I know beggers can't be choosy but black is the only color you have available to you? And what are your thoughts on black, seems people complain about fish poop always showing and making it unslightly and having to gravel vac often. My name is Matt feel free and contact me via email @ [email protected] so we can arange for me to pick up some sand. And first and foremost thanks


----------



## myswtsins

I bought some black S-grade colorquartz about a month ago for my Malawi Cichlid tank (not setup yet). I have spent almost 20 hours trying to clean this stuff and it is still oily and leeching black. I read almost every post on the internet I could find and no one else seems to have this problem which really confuses me. I have tried cleaning it in a bucket, through a DIY sifter, small portions, large portions, hot water, cold water, warm water etc.

When I first thought it was clean I put it into the tank. It took about 3 days for the water to clear up and once it did that is when I noticed the distinct black residue on the glass at the water line & the oily film on the surface of the water. I wiped it down and let it run for about a week to see if the filter floss & carbon would take care of it but it didn't. I took everything out, cleaned all the equipment & have since been trying to clean the sand.

Any ideas or comments here? I am completely frustrated as I drove an hour & 45 mins away to get this stuff not to mention the money and time invested.

BTW Stixx here is the link to your local suppliers http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... ducts/Buy/

I bought mine at AGSCO.


----------



## dreday

return it maybe???

it should no way have any kind of residue of oily stuff. i just bought 150lbs of s-grade white. i only used about 75lbs in two tanks and it took me about 1 hr to wash that. i guess i got tired at the end because the one tank was cloudy for about 24hrs. but that was it. there should only be a little dust and nothing else.

your stuff may have been leaked on or something. i would complain and try to get some more for free if you cant return. and i would be hesitant to use it.

also some companies deliver but no idea what they will charge. :?


----------



## myswtsins

Thanks for the response. There is a 30% restocking fee & like previously discussed in the thread, it is not intended to be used for aquariums so the company is not at fault in any way. They do delivery but they charge $35 to repackage the product and then another $25 in shipping!

It is not uncommon to get an oily bag either. Several others have commented that they also got some oily bags just not to this extent.


----------



## hey_wood1981

mine was pretty oily as well. i took one 50lb bag and divided it into 3, 5 gallon buckets. i rinsed and rinsed and sifted in the tub. after one and a half hours and a sore back i decided to wait until the next day and i took it outside. i just ran a hose in the buckets while stirring for probably another 2 hours. once it was added to my 55g the water was a little cloudy but it cleared up in a day.

also i ordered it for $38 a bag with free shipping. i checked my bank statement and they only charged me $24.


----------



## myswtsins

And you have not had any problems with it, hey wood? Mine I have cleaned many many (MANY!) times and I am trying to put it into the tank again. But when I move the "sand" around my fingers still turn black, was it like that for you too?

*EDIT* I am going to cut my loses here and just buy Tahitian moon sand. Thanks!


----------



## dreday

oily is one thing but it fading or rubbing off is another. sry to hear your bad luck.


----------



## hey_wood1981

myswtsins said:


> And you have not had any problems with it, hey wood? Mine I have cleaned many many (MANY!) times and I am trying to put it into the tank again. But when I move the "sand" around my fingers still turn black, was it like that for you too?
> 
> *EDIT* I am going to cut my loses here and just buy Tahitian moon sand. Thanks!


i stopped rinsing it after i could run my fingers through it without it leaving any black marks on my fingers. i just got done with a water change and i didn't have any black on my fingers after i sifted through the sand.


----------



## D-007

More pictures of tanks with 3M CQ in them are needed for this thread as a lot of the earlier pictures are no longer available.

Let us know whether you use S-Grade or T-Grade too.

In my opinion, it seems as though the people that make Tahiti Moon Sand are repackaging this stuff and changing a few terms then selling it at a ridiculous price. So the more people that can get to buying CQ, the less the makers of TMS will get by ripping people off.


----------



## Icey101

When I get home I will try to get a few pics of my tank. I used the smaller grade (s I think), because it was the only grade they had here in town plus it was super cheap. I think the bigger grade would have been better, because my UGJ tend to pick up some of the sand if it gets piled or to close to the jets.


----------



## TexanRebel

I just ran across this thread today when searching for what kind of black sand people are using. I read the whole thread and I know that this is an old thread but I was looking for some feedback on how the tanks that were set up with this turned out.

Some people mentioned that when using the S type that the water constantly looked cloudyâ€¦ Did the water ever clear up? For people using the S type has it caused any problems with your filters?

Is the T type more like sand or more like gravel?

Is anyone using both types set up in different tanks, if so which do you prefer?

Some new pictures would be nice. If I decide to buy this stuff Iâ€™m going to have to order it blindly so any feedback is much appreciated. :thumb:


----------



## dreday

i have the s-type in 2 75g now. going to put in a 55g and a 29g when i get some more time.

so far i love it. my 75g with a sump cleared up fast. the 75g with HOB took 3 days. and thats after washing 20-30mins a bucket.

so filter helps with cloudiness. but there have been cases where the quartz was rubbing off. if you red that you will see that it is rare. most people who this prod. use it and have no complaints(or posts). people who have problems will post every time making it seem like it can be bad. 90% i would say have great results.

i got the s-grade because it seemed less abrasive. and that is only because i read on the 3m site that the t-grade was more coarse and the s-grade more smooth. i will say that the s-grade is near round and works fine. it does look to small but works great in the tank.

when the fish scoop it up and spit it out it always sinks. looks like snow. but my 14" pleco can kick it up and it did get sucked into my HOB and made some noise which resulted in me taking it apart and cleaning out the sand. but that can happen with any old sand.

the t-grade is like sand, just that it has a rougher finish. i have not held it before but it should not be bad for your fish at all. i would go with ever is cheaper.

*note*'
white seems to be the most popular choice. colors may tend to fade or run so to speak. like when you are washing it in a bucket and take your hand out and it has a black or red tint to it. the dust just melted to the hand i guess.


----------



## TexanRebel

dreday said:


> *note*'
> white seems to be the most popular choice. colors may tend to fade or run so to speak. like when you are washing it in a bucket and take your hand out and it has a black or red tint to it. the dust just melted to the hand i guess.


So the the colored CQ could leak dye/colored dust into the water over time after it has been cleaned?


----------



## HiImSean

does anyone have any pictures of the 3M sand in thier tanks. im wanting to go something besides black, maybe brown.


----------



## TexanRebel

Anyone using an UGJ system with the S type? Since the grain size is so small I was curious if the S type got blowen around alot more than normal sand?


----------



## dreday

no texan it does not get worse over time but better. it is at first that the color fades, according to what i have read from others. and over time it stopped. just at first it was bad. but it is rare but can happen.

i also do not think that a ujg will blow it around more than any other sand. it does sink rather quick but can be blown around. my large plecs do a good job of making whole by themselves. then the mbuna do a nice job of spitting it on top of the rocks as well. :roll:

i like it because it has some weight to it in water. here some pics, sry only white.


----------



## Icey101

I have UGJ (first time setting them up) with black S-grade sand. The jets pick it up a little, but it settles really quickly.


----------



## ksane

HiImSean said:


> does anyone have any pictures of the 3M sand in thier tanks. im wanting to go something besides black, maybe brown.


Here's my Red Oscar on the dark brown 3M in the 250 g tank. The 2nd picture is last year when he had black sand in a 125 g tank. I really liked the black and may go back to it. I just posted these on a local sight, funny how people talk about this sand so much. I've been very happy with it and have it in almost all the tanks. This is the same thread I found out about it from awhile back. It's soft and heavy. I've never had a problem with it bleeding off but I rinse it super well. I wish so bad they had real dark gray, but there's just silver.


----------



## D-007

*ksane*, is that S-Grade or T-Grade?


----------



## ksane

D-007, it's S-grade. The T-grade is bigger and angular, it feels sharp.


----------



## D-007

Thank you.

Both tanks look really good too =D>


----------



## dreday

theres a smoke and a gray color. neither are that dark but i bet a 1:3 ratio with black of either would look nice. but it is kinda hard to tell until you fill up the tank.


----------



## ksane

I mixed little spoonfuls of different colors together, it doesn't blend but makes more of a spotted or salt/pepper color. Seacoast has dark gray sand with a little bigger grain at PetsMart, I think I'll just go with that since it's local instead of paying shipping.


----------



## HiImSean

ksane said:


> HiImSean said:
> 
> 
> 
> does anyone have any pictures of the 3M sand in thier tanks. im wanting to go something besides black, maybe brown.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my Red Oscar on the dark brown 3M in the 250 g tank. The 2nd picture is last year when he had black sand in a 125 g tank. I really liked the black and may go back to it. I just posted these on a local sight, funny how people talk about this sand so much. I've been very happy with it and have it in almost all the tanks. This is the same thread I found out about it from awhile back. It's soft and heavy. I've never had a problem with it bleeding off but I rinse it super well. I wish so bad they had real dark gray, but there's just silver.
Click to expand...

i really like that brown color. do you have any full tank shots with it? did you notice any color change with the fish when you went from brown to black? i have playsand in my current tank and looking for something different with my next one.


----------



## ksane

It's hard to get the whole tank in there because it's 8', not sure if you'll be able to tell with this shot. By the time I stand back far enough you can't see the sand color very well. No, there wasn't a difference in their base color going from black to dark brown. But when my 2 Severums were on real light tan sand they had almost a yellow base color, I didn't like it much. They stay dark now (or stiped up if the Oscar is chasing them-lol) I still do like black better though. The Silver Dollars keep the bottom spotless so it'd always look clean plus they'd (the SD's) really stand out on black sand. If I ever get the energy to switch it back to black I will <g>.


----------



## fishnmaine

CaribSea Tahitian moon or 3M ColorQuartz I dont see much of a deference.....So would it be safe to say why people go with 3M... is the price? Or is there something I'm missing here.


----------



## ksane

3M in my town is $18 for a 50# bag. Tahitian Moon sand is $25 for a 20 lb bag. The TMS is also made of sharp particles and not solid black, there's lighter colored flecks in it. It's so sharp it rubbed the whiskers right off my Cory Cats, that's why I originally went to 3M (plus it's cheaper). I read on WetWebMedia that TMS is made of glass, it feels sharp. 3M is perfectly uniform in size and real soft feeling.


----------



## k19smith

Just a funny story I called 3M looking for a dealer, they guy was like what do you need it for pool/floor what ever. I was like neither and he was like fish tank? I said how did you know, he was like someday they may get the hint and market this stuff for tanks.

Were getting to them.

I still didn't get any there's not a dealer anywhere near me.


----------



## D-007

*k19smith* I see you're in NC; there are two ways to get it actually. Bare with me for a few hours until I get out of the hospital and I'll PM you with them.


----------



## fishnmaine

Well for me I have no dealers in Maine the cheapest place to get it is here http://www.vbpstore.com/50-lb-bag-of-3m ... uartz.html Shipping is included in the price per bag. I did alot of searching.
TMS at Dr foster&Smith for 19.99 a bag. I didn't think that TMS is that course.


----------



## ksane

I bought 4 bags of TMS through Fosters and Smith a year ago and the shipping was outrageous since heavy weight items didn't qualify for the "free shipping for over $50" back then. I think I read somewhere recently that they DO offer free shipping on the heavy weight items now.


----------



## Guest

I used TMS before and did not like it either. I too agree it is very sharp and not solid black. The Colorquartz is much better quality and is smooth so it is easier on the fish when they sift through it.

Also, if you guys have no dealers in your state why not just drive out of state and buy a **** load so you have extras?

~Ed


----------



## fishEH

I haven't read this entire thread but i did find this http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/mmmsand. Its a petition for 3M to market the color quartz for aquarium use


----------



## Guest

3m should... They should just put a disclaimer "not for food fish and limited warranty" to avoid any potential legal conflicts...that would make it SOOOO much easier for hobbyists to get a hold of the stuff...

They're obviously WIDELY aware that their product is very popular among aquarists...

~Ed


----------



## D-007

Anyone that is having trouble getting 3M ColorQuartz can PM me and I can put you in touch with someone that can ship it to you at a good price - better than the above mentioned site.

Just trying to help out,
D


----------



## HiImSean

ksane said:


> It's hard to get the whole tank in there because it's 8', not sure if you'll be able to tell with this shot. By the time I stand back far enough you can't see the sand color very well. No, there wasn't a difference in their base color going from black to dark brown. But when my 2 Severums were on real light tan sand they had almost a yellow base color, I didn't like it much. They stay dark now (or stiped up if the Oscar is chasing them-lol) I still do like black better though. The Silver Dollars keep the bottom spotless so it'd always look clean plus they'd (the SD's) really stand out on black sand. If I ever get the energy to switch it back to black I will <g>.


are you planning on changing from black? im trying to figure out a color besides black that will bring out the color in my fish.


----------



## ksane

HiImSean said:


> are you planning on changing from black? im trying to figure out a color besides black that will bring out the color in my fish.


The dark brown does bring out the base color but you're right-not as well as black does. I just think black looks really sharp if you've got fish in there (Silver Dollars, Loaches, etc) that clean up the bottom real well. That tank is 8' and it'd be an all day job changing it out but yes-I am going to switch it over to black. I'd bought 150 lbs of black a few months ago to do just that and ended up setting up a couple other tanks and using it.


----------



## Solchitlins

I would like to see the dark brown mixed with the black.
Or oyher mixes that you guys have photos of.


----------



## Vathek

Unfortunately, vbpstore.com no longer stocks the black. They phoned me to cancel my order. What other places are willing to ship it?


----------



## nickinsmokerise

Hello. I have been searching for some time to find the sand in black near me and have some on its way! I have found the best price for the product and the best price for shipping. I followed the "find a supplier near you" link on the 3m website and the closest one to me was Pensacola FL. I am near Birmingham Alabama and to ship it to me via UPS is $15 per bag which is the least amount I had been quoted to date. I paid seems like $24-26ish per bag which is also comparable to other suppliers.

[removed by moderator]

I went with the s grade because my fish love to sift and i have had no problem with the fine sand getting in filter, but t grade is ordered more for aquarium use he said.


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

Because we have a 'Reviews' section that includes opinions on retailers, we ask that you take advantage of this resource when possible. We feel that it is better for all who use the site to have a structured place to conduct reviews. Reviews on a discussion board quickly become buried and it is inevitable that your input will not be seen next time, or the time after that. This is not the case with the reviews section. In addition, it is easy to compare retailers and products there. Thank you for your consideration.

if you have recommendations please leave a review, and you can PM the details directly to the OP.

I'm using the copy and paste reply, but come on everyone, you know not to make it a review...


----------



## nickinsmokerise

alright then, everybody just pm me and ill give you the contact or i guess search through the reviews. Good luck!!


----------



## D-007

So you paid $39 per S-Grade bag?


----------



## nickinsmokerise

yes, that was the best deal i could find including shipping to where i live in Alabama. Not a single supplier in my state. I maybe could have found it from a local pool supplier, but I also was willing to pay for the convenience of next day shipping to save me all those phone calls and having to explain, blah blah, then it be the wrong thing and then i get mad and be on an episode of cops..........

he he


----------



## TrashmanNYC

barbarian206 said:


> [
> stixx your not gonna find it here in nyc you would have to order it from a company in conn. or n.j. but if you want black beauty sand blasting sand ill give it to you free my company uses it by the ton we have 100 lb. bags its called reed sandblasting sand and its black i used it in my 30 gal. now im waiting for winter to get my background and i plan on using it with my 55 gal africans malawi tank. =D> :fish: :fish:


any issues from using it in your tank at all?


----------



## mletap

anyone want to pm me with the best place to find this stuff. I called a ton of places in st. louis today and no one has it. Help!


----------



## Guest

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:


> Because we have a 'Reviews' section that includes opinions on retailers, we ask that you take advantage of this resource when possible. We feel that it is better for all who use the site to have a structured place to conduct reviews. Reviews on a discussion board quickly become buried and it is inevitable that your input will not be seen next time, or the time after that. This is not the case with the reviews section. In addition, it is easy to compare retailers and products there. Thank you for your consideration.
> 
> if you have recommendations please leave a review, and you can PM the details directly to the OP.
> 
> I'm using the copy and paste reply, but come on everyone, you know not to make it a review...


Madman, they aren't really making a review.

Besides, there are NO PLACES in the review section to review 3m colorquartz in general, or any distributors of it.

I see nothing wrong with this topic, being the only place on the whole forum mentioning this sand blasting product, having posts about where to get it and prices of those places that sell it. Why not just let us mention where we have found it available, since it is VERY difficult in many parts of the country to get a hold of, on the topic?

Just my opinion...

~Ed


----------



## Guest

mletap said:


> anyone want to pm me with the best place to find this stuff. I called a ton of places in st. louis today and no one has it. Help!


Call 3m and ask them to give you a list of local distributors.


----------



## TrashmanNYC

mletap said:


> anyone want to pm me with the best place to find this stuff. I called a ton of places in st. louis today and no one has it. Help!





nickinsmokerise said:


> alright then, everybody just pm me and ill give you the contact or i guess search through the reviews. Good luck!!


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

Marduk said:


> PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because we have a 'Reviews' section that includes opinions on retailers, we ask that you take advantage of this resource when possible. We feel that it is better for all who use the site to have a structured place to conduct reviews. Reviews on a discussion board quickly become buried and it is inevitable that your input will not be seen next time, or the time after that. This is not the case with the reviews section. In addition, it is easy to compare retailers and products there. Thank you for your consideration.
> 
> if you have recommendations please leave a review, and you can PM the details directly to the OP.
> 
> I'm using the copy and paste reply, but come on everyone, you know not to make it a review...
> 
> 
> 
> Madman, they aren't really making a review.
> 
> Besides, there are NO PLACES in the review section to review 3m colorquartz in general, or any distributors of it.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with this topic, being the only place on the whole forum mentioning this sand blasting product, having posts about where to get it and prices of those places that sell it. Why not just let us mention where we have found it available, since it is VERY difficult in many parts of the country to get a hold of, on the topic?
> 
> Just my opinion...
> 
> ~Ed
Click to expand...

the bit with regard the review was removed, and I put up a warning to try and stop it again.

a quick look showed no reviews of either 3m or any retailers of it, there is a reason the review section is there, so why not use it??

the fact is that the 3m site lists its distributors, do we need to repeat it here. or if so, wouldn't it be better to do so in 1 consecutive post, listing the suppliers by state. rather than the piecemeal manner its done at the moment.


----------



## thevein

i think i'm gonna give this stuff a shot in my project 75gal hap peacock, i've got a distributor right here in tampa.

btw, does n e one have pics of any blends of the 3m colors? 33 pages in this post is just too much to comb thru, thx


----------



## Solchitlins

I love how 3M gives you that list of distributors to call.
I called 4 of them, 2 were disconected, 1 never answers or returns messages and 1 didn't know what I was talking about.

FUN.

oh well........


----------



## ilikebeer1985

Did anyone buy the white T grade? Is it tooooooooooo white.
i am looking for a white substrate. would you recomend buying the S or T grade?

thanks


----------



## snakedoc

So, a few others have asked this too. Does anyone else have pictures of their aquariums with this stuff in it? I am curious to see how the different colors work in contrast with the fish in the tank. Thanks in advance for posting pics.

Rich


----------



## djoneser

I have the black type S in my tanks, You can see them on my photobucket page, too many to individually post< if you go back far enough, you can see some photos from previous gravel substrate... http://s253.photobucket.com/albums/hh55/djoneser/


----------



## RASTAR

are plants able to grow in 3m quartz as a substrate i am interested in black t-grade


----------



## rebel2004nay

I'm sure the black is beautiful, but I want something a little more natural-looking. Does anyone have any pics of tanks with the buff color S-grade?


----------



## teqvet

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because we have a 'Reviews' section that includes opinions on retailers, we ask that you take advantage of this resource when possible. We feel that it is better for all who use the site to have a structured place to conduct reviews. Reviews on a discussion board quickly become buried and it is inevitable that your input will not be seen next time, or the time after that. This is not the case with the reviews section. In addition, it is easy to compare retailers and products there. Thank you for your consideration.
> 
> if you have recommendations please leave a review, and you can PM the details directly to the OP.
> 
> I'm using the copy and paste reply, but come on everyone, you know not to make it a review...
> 
> 
> 
> Madman, they aren't really making a review.
> 
> Besides, there are NO PLACES in the review section to review 3m colorquartz in general, or any distributors of it.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with this topic, being the only place on the whole forum mentioning this sand blasting product, having posts about where to get it and prices of those places that sell it. Why not just let us mention where we have found it available, since it is VERY difficult in many parts of the country to get a hold of, on the topic?
> 
> Just my opinion...
> 
> ~Ed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the bit with regard the review was removed, and I put up a warning to try and stop it again.
> 
> a quick look showed no reviews of either 3m or any retailers of it, there is a reason the review section is there, so why not use it??
> 
> the fact is that the 3m site lists its distributors, do we need to repeat it here. or if so, wouldn't it be better to do so in 1 consecutive post, listing the suppliers by state. rather than the piecemeal manner its done at the moment.
Click to expand...

Many of the sites that 3M list as being distributor are:

1) disconnected
2) no longer distributing
3) only sell to contractors

This is literally the only place I have found where one can find info on 3M quartz for the aquarium trade. Many local private shops carry this for contractor / industrial use in my area but you won't find this anywhere else. I had to thank a member on these forums for finding a location near me to use as the 3M site was completely wrong.


----------



## teqvet

Has anyone noticed a difference in the roughness of the S grade between the T grade? I've got the black S-grade in my 55gallon right now but wasn't sure what the T-grade was like and am debating using it for my 75 gallon with jacks and yoyo loaches.


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

teqvet said:


> Many of the sites that 3M list as being distributor are:
> 
> 1) disconnected
> 2) no longer distributing
> 3) only sell to contractors
> 
> This is literally the only place I have found where one can find info on 3M quartz for the aquarium trade. Many local private shops carry this for contractor / industrial use in my area but you won't find this anywhere else. I had to thank a member on these forums for finding a location near me to use as the 3M site was completely wrong.


look, if people can PM me the various suppliers, state by state,

and if someone wants to put together a review of the various grades and stuff, I'll edit it all up into an article, and it can then be updated as and when it needs to.

I cant do any of the review, as I cant get 3M colourquartz over here in the UK


----------



## Solchitlins

I found a local guy with some extra bags of black T grade.

How many 50# bags should I get ?

I need it for a 4'X18" tank and a 6'X18" tank, I dont need it too deep.
Will 100# do me or should I get 150pounds?


----------



## nickinsmokerise

hey, in my 75 gallon, 2 bags was just right (100 lbs).

You might want to get the 3rd bag tho to make sure you have enough :thumb:


----------



## D-007

Best price I have found with it being shipped to your door is $37.50 per 50lb box of either S-Grade or T-Grade - and that price DOES include shipping.

If you want more details you'll have to PM me as to put the details on here will violate the forum rules (plus *PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn* will then get psycho on me  :lol: )


----------



## D-007

Oh, forgot to mention ... white is available but is not 3M brand; it their own 'arctic white'.


----------



## t0rns0ul

FYI:

For those of you that cant find a local distributor. Here is a link to a company on Ebay that is selling what appears to be 3m quartz sand, FREE SHIPPING. You will of course pay a little bit more but still cheaper than tahitian moon sand.

50lbs black T $35 FREE Shipping
120Lbs Black T $80 FREE shipping

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/aquariumsubstratesupply


----------



## freshwater100

Does S- grade (Black) makes the water more cloudy then the T-grade sinceT is more like a gravel. Specially when fish kick the sand or throw the sand from their mouth.
I like my water Crystal clear so want to make sure I pick the right Grade.


----------



## sean151

The sand will not stay in the water column and will settle quickly.


----------



## freshwater100

sean151 said:


> The sand will not stay in the water column and will settle quickly.


Sean, thanks for the input, I think I will go with S-grade then Black Color..

How many inches I can get with 2Bags of 50lb in a 75G Tank 48x18. or 1 Bag will be enough.


----------



## freshwater100

Today I took a 30 miles drive to Serena, IL just south west of Chicago to pick up my 3M quartz.

This is a place given to me by D-007 to check out, basically its a Big Mid-West Distributor just off HWY 80 west of Morris, I was thinking of a front end store but find out its a big Plant and a holding place for these kind of stuff. They have Tons and Tons of 3M Quartz sitting in their ware house and they were loading pallets of it on a big truck for distribution.
They have an office so i went their and ask them to give me 1 Bag of Black S- grade.
The ladies were so nice that they even give me a 3M sample which has all of the Quartz in their in small tubes both T and S. When I look at the Bag its 50 lb but buy volume its look like a 20 lb bag so i pick one more. They also told me they can ship anywhere in the USA and a pallet cost for shipment was like $98 and its has may be 50-70 bags, they also ship individually and they will just charge for UPS ground plus $20.27 for each bag. So if some one needs it they can get it from their. I am not sure i am allowed to share the dealer Name on this post but will give you if u PM me.

I bring the bag home and its look like its very small round metals and dont look like sand but very close to it. I washed it in 15-20 minutes and no oily stuff and the water was clean within
15-20 minites. this stuff is heavy so it just settles down very fast not like sand which create these sand storm which can last for days.

I will post some pics soon of this stuff.


----------



## freshwater100

Pics of the 3M Quartz.


----------



## dreday

awesome kit for samples. i have this sand and love it. i just added some play sand to my planted tank since i am short on money and boy it sucks. dust everywhere and i washed it for 30 mins.

i really wish i could have got it again but oh well.

did you read the cancer warning on the bag... :lol: :lol: my friend who came over saw that and got freaked out. i said if you breathe in the dust every day for about a year you may have to worry. but in water i doubt it will harm any thing.


----------



## D-007

Congrats on getting your 3MCQ *freshwater100* :thumb:

And yes, if anyone wants to try and get some or needs help in finding some, drop *freshwater100* or myself a PM and we will see if we can help. :wink:

Word of warning follows (*PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn* hope this ok to do here - if not by all means remove the next paragraph).


----------



## PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn

*D-007* I have removed it, I would recommend you put in a retailer review, and link to that, to comply with forum rules.

rather than suggesting retailers to avoid, I will say again, please send me the retailers you know are good and trustworthy. and we can compile a list of suppliers on the CF site. too accompany the article on 3M Colour Quartz being written


----------



## D-007

Understood and thanks for taking care of that :thumb:


----------



## joker4466

wish i could find some of that substrate in my area.i will try and contact 3M and see where they distribute it around my erea.

IS IT TOTAL SAFE FOR FISH?


----------



## dreday

as far as i know.


----------



## nickinsmokerise

hey, it stays down and doesnt have that powdery stuff that happens from regular sand when you stir it in cleaning etc


----------



## aikirich2002

I got the t grade and It is great. You can siphon using a regular siphon without fear of it being sucked out. Hence, faster cleaning time.


----------



## Ali1

Just grabbed 50lbs of colorquarts type S. It can be compared to tiny beads. Definitely settles alot faster than playsand/PFS. I originally had my 10" pleco for sale because i feared he will continue to swish the sand into my intakes, but i no longer need to worry. Very tiny beads, yet very heavy to the point where it does not float in the water whatsoever. Also, for all the individuals who had to rinse for hours, you must have gotten a dirty batch. I received my batch and did little to no rinsing. After reading several comments about rinsing thoroughly, I thought i'd go ahead and make sure to rinse it by churning it, hosing different sections of the bucket. But the water never turned black, my fingers hardly had black stains, very little to no muck in the sand. Took me 10 minutes to rinse it. I told myself "geez, i don't see how everyone is rinsing for hours, the sand is clean" . Maybe i was lucky? So i stopped rinsing. Removed my fishes from the tank because i didn't want them stressed, so i placed them in a bucket. Removed the gravel with a net. Did a gravel vac on the bareless tank to remove any debris that may have been underneath the gravel. be careful when dumping sand back into tank, even small clumps will cause large drops of water splatting everywhere!!! I previously turned off all equipment so the sand settles. Once the sand settled after 15minutes or so, i turned the power back on. My overflow did a nice skimming of the water, HOB filters cleared up the cloudiness and tiny particles. Dumped the fish back in, and the color drastically changed from beige to darken black with their notorious colors!! I love this sand!! Thanks for everyone who helped and gave me a good description of this material!I'll post pics before and after if you guys would like!


----------



## freshwater100

Atif said:


> Does it is effect our economy ?
> .


Not sure about Brits Economy but we need to buy to revive ours in USA.
I was not even sure you guys even have an Economy to start with :lol:

cheers!!!! Long live Queen!!!!


----------



## TheBanker

**edit i found the supplier number.


----------



## aikirich2002

Has anyone used this stuff in a planted tank?


----------



## D-007

There are a lot of people that have used T-Grade in a planted tank but the substrate is also supplemented with root tabs or mineralized soil for example. This is because 3MCQ is inert so the plants get no nutrition from it.


----------



## poypoyking

The 3M headquarters are here in MN, so it is pretty easy to get the colorquartz around here. I am planning on putting the red S grade in my 125 gallon, but I wanted to check with some of you before I did it. Would the color of the sand make any difference in the activities of any shell dwellers?


----------



## BPDuncan

Does anyone know where I can get this product in Texas? Preferably Central Texas.


----------



## lamster

BPDuncan said:


> Does anyone know where I can get this product in Texas? Preferably Central Texas.


I got mine from SCP Distributors in Austin (2124 E. St. Elmo) has tons of it in stock for $18.xx a bag, and they'll sell to the public.


----------



## TheBanker

Well thanks to this site, and a 4 hour road trip to houston (had to go for a graduation) i got my hands on enough 3m for my 225g on order. 250 pounds should be enough plus extra. The pool supply store was trying to jack up the price to 31 dollars a bag if they sell to the public, contractors get a discount. I got a discount


----------



## sddc5

so the assumption is that the CQ is safe for fish, but what about humans? I know it's inert, bu tjust how safe is it to have indoors, despite it being in water?


----------



## dreday

its fine. it says on the bag that it can cause cancer though i think that is mainly for long exposure to the dust and inhalation.

i see no ill effects of keeping it around the house. although i would not put it inside near the ac unit. :roll:

just keep it rolled up tight or in a rubbermaid sealed container.


----------



## Maxima308

I think every thing can or will cause cancer...LOL at least in the state of California If it's safe for fish doubt humans would see any ill effects from it. Think of it as a canary in a coal mine.


----------



## mx22

Has anyone from New York City or neighboring areas was able to get 3M quartz? If so, can you please PM with the phone number/address of the place that stocks it?

Thank You!


----------



## serp

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn said:


> *D-007* I have removed it, I would recommend you put in a retailer review, and link to that, to comply with forum rules.
> 
> rather than suggesting retailers to avoid, I will say again, please send me the retailers you know are good and trustworthy. and we can compile a list of suppliers on the CF site. too accompany the article on 3M Colour Quartz being written


Will the article have pictures w/different mixtures of color combos? Would be awesome for people interested in CQ to know exactly what a color combo looks like before buying 100 lbs + to mix


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## serp

Has anyone gone with a mix similar to 1:1 tan to buff, or 1:1 brown to tan.

I would be very interested to see pictures, Thanks!


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## intermediate_noob

Here are some pictures of my current and potential future mixes (along with the single colors)

The first two being the "smoke" the "brown" and then my original 3:1 (Buff to brown), and then my new mix (hopefully) which is about 3:1 Brown to Buff and then a small amount of Smoke. I am thinking I may add even more brown, hard to know what the final will look like.

These were taken in normal lighting (around 5500 K) and are in water.

I kept the picture very large so you can see the detail so I am linking instead of embedding. It is below.

http://asylumgeek.com/picture_library/color_quartz.jpg


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## DrgRcr

Better get it while it's hot, it's being phased out.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... /HomePage/


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## serp

got a sample today and mixed the following:
from Left to right: 1:1 Tan:Buff, 2:1 Tan:Buff, 1:1 Tan:Brown, 2:1 Tan:Brown @ 5500K lighting (3x 60W equivalent daylight CFL bulbs)


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## serp

left to right:
1:1 tan:buff, tan only, 2:1 tan:buff, 1:1 tan:brown, 2:1 tan:brown









tan only, 2:1 tan:buff









Borrowed the remaining tan to make this last one, so no side by side shots.

here is 3:1 tan:buff


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## serp

digging the tan and brown mixes. sucks to hear they are phasing CQ out. Might have to stock up on a few bags...


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## jrh

Just purchased 2 bags of S Grade Black in Rockville MD for $25 each. He's happy to get more, so if you're in the DC Metro area and you're looking for Colorquartz, PM me and I'll give you his contact info.


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## serp

bought a bag each of S grade Tan and Brown, and a bag of T grade black for $18.75/each from agsco in wheeling, IL. they have a min order of $50.


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## larry.beck

I got over to the local 3M distributor earlier this week and picked up 2 bags of white (for my new 55gal) and 2 bags of black (for when I redo my old 55gal). The guys there know about us aquarium types and have apparently been selling a lot of the material here in Seattle. They had just found out that 3M was going to quit making it and were starting the search for a new, similar product.


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## serp

Went with a 2:1 tan:brown CQ mix. here are the results:


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## janswilly

an alternative to 3M is quartzcarpet - rock with an unlimited choice of colors and seizes


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## Rizup

serp said:


> bought a bag each of S grade Tan and Brown, and a bag of T grade black for $18.75/each from agsco in wheeling, IL. they have a min order of $50.


That's where I got mine when I started up my tank. I think I still have over half a bag left.


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## Gallons and Gallons

Anyone know a place near 48114 that I can get colorquartz?


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## Danzx6r

> Announcement â€" August 17â€š 2009
> 
> Following a review of its product portfolioâ€š 3M is today announcing the phase out of its Colorquartzâ„¢ Ceramic Coated Crystals product lineâ€š both the S grade and T grade productsâ€š by December 31â€š 2009.
> 
> The phase out is related to business conditions in the markets utilizing Colorquartzâ„¢. There is no impact on or change to our Roofing Granule product lines.
> 
> There is currently inventory of most colors in Wausau. The amount varies by color. 3M will accept orders for this material at current prices on a first come first serve basis. Final orders should be placed by September 15â€š 2009. 3M will consolidate these and communicate the following shipment quantity to our customers by September 30â€š 2009. We are committed to an orderly phase out.
> 
> Please contact me or your sales rep with any questions.


Maybe Cheap Quartz going????


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## thebigman65

I picked up 3 bags of the black S grade and made sure when I got them the bags were clean and dry. I just started washing my first batch. I used a new white 5 gallon pails and filled it about 1/3 full. I started to swish it around while the water was running and then got a stick to use. My hands were all black and sorta oily. I washed it for a good hour and the water was clear, but everytime I emptied the water, there was stuff (granules) floating on top, there was only a few so I figured they would settle down. I put the first batch in the tank and spread it around, and it made my hands black and oily again. Should I be worried about that? It doesn't seem like it will ever come out no matter how much I wash it. It this just the way this stuff is?


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## larry.beck

I just put 50lbs of black ColorQuartz into a new tank last weekend and while there was a bit of residue in the tank after I filled it we were able to get it cleaned out right away. I recommend only placing 1-2" of material in the bottom of that 5gal bucket and using the water pressure to wash it. Then pour it into a second bucket to collect enough to carry in to fill your tank.


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## intermediate_noob

For all you New Mexico folks, this is a good deal!

Do not know what colors he has, but it might be a good idea to contact. At $8 a bag, that is not bad.

http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/mat/1495322025.html


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## crazinezz978

Anyone know where to get some 3M colorquartz black in NJ?

-Thanks!


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## ashilli48

Here is what the distributors here in Fl are replacing it with at a similar price of 50 cents a pound, for 50lb bags http://www.spectraquartz.com/

It seems to be going fast (probably due to us  ) so no discounts are to be found around here.


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## cf

ashilli48 said:


> Here is what the distributors here in Fl are replacing it with at a similar price of 50 cents a pound, for 50lb bags


Has anyone used this? I'm unclear on the exact specifications of the product linked to above. Is it indeed safe for aquariums? I was going to purchase some 3M colorquarts, found out it is discontinued (through this thread), and have yet to call around south Florida to see if I can find any. However, if the SpectraQuartz product is a perfect replacement, I'll begin the search for some of that.

Thanks!


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## mambee

I bought mine at AGSCO in Hasbrouk Heights, NJ.


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## cf

mambee said:


> I bought mine at AGSCO in Hasbrouk Heights, NJ.


I'm assuming "mine" is the SpectraQuartz. If so, how long have you had it in your tank? How long did the cleaning process of the SpectraQuartz take? It appeared that a few ppl had complained about the length of time it took to clean the Colorquartz Crystals.


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## mambee

CQ

That was 8 years ago. I'm assuming that they still have some in stock even though it is discontinued.

The cleaning process wasn't that bad.


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## ashilli48

scored a 50# bag of black S grade the other day in Tampa for $28 after tax. They have a decent selection left if anyone wants to PM me for the location ( I assume listing it in the thread is a no no?)

Must have gotten a clean batch too.......took very little time and water to rinse it completely clean....LOOKS AMAZING!


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## bjcichlid

Anybody know where I can get S-grade in Pennsylvania? I am in Central, PA, but I would be willing to do some driving. I am looking for tan, brown, black, or white.


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## Low Budget

Has anybody found an alternative? I called3M and it says right on the recording Colorquartz is discountinued. I have a call into Spectraquartz but no response yet.


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## Deeda

N.T. Ruddock is the distributor for Spectraquartz & Colorquartz for Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York and Michigan. You can always check a local pool building company or similar to see if anyone has it locally.


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## Gervahlt

Spectraquartz = Colorquartz under new manufacturer. Same distributors, same stuff. Slightly more expensive if I remember right.


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## Low Budget

From what I have read its not exactly the same the Spectra is not ceramic coated

http://www.spectraquartz.com/pdf/Spectr ... rocess.pdf

I have a call into the Estes place to see if I can get a hold of some of their Ceramic Coated Quartz

http://www.permacolorquartz.com/pool.html


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## whosonfirst

Estes has ceramic coated quartz, Estes also does aquarium gravel here are the links

colored quartz: http://www.ceramaquartz.com
aquarium: http://www.estesco.com


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## Low Budget

whosonfirst said:


> Estes has ceramic coated quartz, Estes also does aquarium gravel here are the links
> 
> colored quartz: http://www.ceramaquartz.com
> aquarium: http://www.estesco.com


Do you work for them? It looks like it will work but how do I get some? Called the sales rep and left a message this morning and no return call


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## Low Budget

Update

Deeds is right N.T. Ruddock is the distributor for spectraquartz and they claim people are very happy using it in their tanks. They still have Colorquartz available. Something like 30 bags of black and some various other colors. I went ahead and picked up 200# of black colorquartz shipped. Shipping was twice what they charged me for the sand. Cost me about $100 shipped to my door for 200#

Ceramaquartz is another story I left several messages and finally spoke with a guy named Rick. He is the sales men for the Estes gravel and sand. He said he had never heard of anyone using the ceramaquartz in fish tanks. He said that he gave my info to the guy who handles the ceramaquartz and I left two messages for him as well with no return call. So unfortunately I don't have much to report other than poor responses.

Whosonfirst I have seen you post here and on other forums about Estes and ceramaquartz. What's the deal? Are you just a spammer or can you give us some info on how to actually purchase this stuff?


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## whosonfirst

yes i do work for Estes, and im sorry for the lack of response. if you are looking for ceramaquartz again give me a call my office number is 336-622-6415.


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## Low Budget

Thanks for the response but I am all set now. You might consider becoming a site sponsor


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## Deeda

Low Budget, I'm glad you were able to acquire the Colorquartz even though it was pricey with the shipping charges.

I have also used the black S-grade (fine) and found it required a considerable amount of rinsing to be clean enough to put in the tank. Other people have had no issues, so maybe you'll get lucky.


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## Low Budget

I will make sure to rinse it good thanks for the info


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## mlancaster

I have previously used 3m colored quartz S grade for my Geo. It looks and works great.

I now am attempting to obtain a similar product (as 3m discontinued their line).

The supplier I previously used now supplies *"colorscapes"* a spherical ceramic coated colored quartz. The supplier noted it is the same as 3M version. I plan to use this in a new aquarium.

I wanted to see if anyone has used this specific brand? If it is the same as the 3M version? And any issues or success people have had using it.

Thanks,
Matt


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## 7umos

Any new info about places that this sand could be gotten from?


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## Deeda

7umos said:


> Any new info about places that this sand could be gotten from?


3M Colorquartz is no longer be produced at this time. There are a couple of similar products that have replaced it. One is Spectraquartz and the other is Estes Permacolor Quartz.

I don't know if either of these products are available in your country. Sorry.


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