# New Tank, After Malawi advice...................



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi,
I've just set-up whats to be my first Malawi Cichlid tank this weekend. It's a 260 Litre Juwel Vision measuring 121 X 46 X 62 cm. I built a cave scence out of reef rock & have just started to cycle the tank, here it is....










I've left it to mature now while I reasearch which fish to put in it & from what I am discovering there are compatibility issues with different Malawi's.

My question is this....

Will the below selection of "assorted malawi cichlids" available from my LFS _- local fish shop?_ (I am new here) be compatible with each other or will they pose me problems as they grow & depending on their species & sex?










I've been told that they'll be fine as long as there is a large number (12-15) in the tank, but from what I've been reading there are issues with certain species.

Any assistance greatly appreciated


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## youngman (May 16, 2009)

try using the cookie-cutter section

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_55g.php
or
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_75g.php


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi,

Thanks for the response, however the reason for my original question relates to me being able to get my complete selection of fish from my local store.

As I understand the fish can have issues when they get older I was after an opinion as to if the fish in that tank would be compatible with each other as they aged (to be honest they look quite similar to me so species names is a bit hard for me to go by & as mentioned previously I would like to buy my fish locally).


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## youngman (May 16, 2009)

to be honest mate i personally wouldnt touch fish sold as 'assorted malawi cichlids', any i have seen are generally sold in chain stores and the fish are all crossbred or ill ridden, thats just me though, do a wee bit of research on the type of fish you want, colour,size, diet, aggression, male to female ratios etc.... it will save you a whole lot of hassle and cash in the long run

good luck


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

Assorted is a mix of you name it vics malawi and tangs. If you look there is a vic in that pic.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Welcome, the tank looks great.



> I've left it to mature now while I reasearch which fish to put in it & from what I am discovering there are compatibility issues with different Malawi's.


To put it mildly, but that is the fun in keeping them.



> Will the below selection of "assorted malawi cichlids" available from my LFS - local fish shop? (I am new here) be compatible with each other or will they pose me problems as they grow & depending on their species & sex?


Correct, LFS = local fish store.

No. I avoid the "assorted malawi cichlids" tank like the plague. They are generally populated with a lot of hybrids - the reason I find that bad is the aggression level of a hybrid is a **** shoot.

It is great to see someone actually ask questions before coming home with a bunch of pretty little fish then asking if this will work.

If you research the 75 cookie cutters (that is your footprint) you can get a pretty good idea of what should work in your tank.

I would also search this board for "90 Stocking" or "90 Stock list" and you should get plenty of threads to keep you busy while waiting for the tank to cycle.

I would suggest you research mbuna v. peacock v. hap.

If you are just starting I would recommend trying groups of several species to have the greatest chance for long term success and fish keeping happiness.

Buying young fish and letting them grow up together is also a good idea. Something like:

6 Labidochromis caeruleus
6 Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Msuli)
6 Aulonocara "German Red"
6 Copadichromis azureus
6 Synodontis multipunctatus

Would let you try a bit of everything and be a relatively peaceful tank with a lot of color and action.

Please keep the questions coming.

Good Luck.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi, Thanks for the responses.

As per the reason for this post I was preferably looking to buy locally as I don't like the Idea of getting mail order fish. However I've just been looking through the cookie cutter section & I am thinking maybe mail order is the way forwards.

"I would suggest you research mbuna v. peacock v. hap."

Iâ€™ve heard â€œMbunaâ€


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## Jab240 (Jun 24, 2007)

Welcome, great questions by you and it looks like your doing your research! :thumb:

Just curious and want to make sure you get off to a great start. How's your cycling going and what method are you using?

I too recommend staying away from the "assorted tank" as you won't know for sure what you'd be getting. What kind of tank are you looking for? Colorful? Breeding tank? Calm or all out action tank? These details will help the experts help you.

I myself started off several years ago with Malawi peacocks for the color and peacefulness(yeah right!) and still have them (with Haps) as my main show tank.

Good luck


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## Jab240 (Jun 24, 2007)

Yes Mbuna, Peacocks, and Haps are all different types of Malawi. Peacocks and haps are more closely related and go together quite well. Compatibilty with all 3 is possible but a little more difficult. Have a look in the Profiles section for more detailed individual descriptions of each fish.

Goofboy's suggested stock list of 30 young fish is indeed possible with your tank size but you would have to practice over-filtration and maintain regular water changes. Over-filtration is actually the norm and not an extreme for most cichlid keepers. HTH


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi, Thanks for the interest.

The filter & the air pump are running I've added water conditioner to the tank as well as Bio Digest bacteria. Then I was just going to leave it for 3 weeks until the ammonia & nitrite die off & then introduce fish. A friend of mine got me into tropical fish & I setup a 125L community tank a little while ago but am still new to this.

I liked the look of Malawi's & decided if I reconfigured my lounge I could get a 4ft tank in there so here I am now. Although until yesterday I figured you just put a reasonably high number of "assorted Malawi Cichlids" in a tank together to prevent territorial behaviour.

However the guy I brought the tank from kept Malawiâ€™s & told be crowding the tank causes filtration issues with the water if you make lots of caves for the fish to hide in they can get away from conflict & it stops the aggressivenesss (& keeps the water easier to manage).

This is his 400L tank (there are a lot more fish in there all types & sizes, wild caught etc)......










With 30 fish (which i take it will grow to about 4-5" each) how many litres of water will I need to change from my aquarium a week?

I like the idea or more fish as it'll make the tank more interesting am & now also considoring adding an internal filter to run alongside my 1000L per hour can filter.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Regardless of tank size you should plan on changing 50% of the water weekly. When you add the bacteria from a bottle you want to add the fish at the same time.

The bacteria eat the ammonia and nitrite, creating nitrate. (The fish create the ammonia, and the first type of bacteria eats the nitrite.)

So if you add bacteria from a bottle, you want to add the fish right away or the bacteria will starve and die.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Iâ€™ve heard â€œMbunaâ€


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi Thanks for the responses, I've just got myself some ammonia & am considering getting another canister filter to run along side the one I already have.

Now I am currently trying to decide which fish to get a research compatibility issues, would I not be better off putting 15-20 fish in my tank as opposed to 30? (even with 2 can filters).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I depends on the species you choose. The catfish don't claim territory, so you don't count them. For the species on your list I'd stick with 6 for the labs, acei and catfish. They like larger groups. You could go 5 of each or even 4 of each on the peacocks and haps if you prefer.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

I am not really keen on catfish to be honest, I think I'll just stick with the Cichlid's.

Does anyone have a good recommendation of where to buy from, I think the best bet will be to see whats available to me & then work out whats compatible in my tank.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> I think the best bet will be to see whats available to me & then work out whats compatible in my tank.


Good plan. Really the only way to do it.


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## Jab240 (Jun 24, 2007)

Kaosone said:


> Does anyone have a good recommendation of where to buy from, I think the best bet will be to see whats available to me & then work out whats compatible in my tank.


You could join a local fish forum if there's one available. Good place to meet local enthusiasts and most clubs have some sort of buy and sell section. Breeders are always to looking to unload some fish. You can find a wide variety of fish this way for really good prices. You'll probably find species that you're LFS won't be carrying at the moment as well.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Jab240 said:


> Kaosone said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have a good recommendation of where to buy from, I think the best bet will be to see whatâ€™s available to me & then work out whatâ€™s compatible in my tank.
> ...


Hi

That sounds perfect & I am on the case, however I am also in Southampton (UK) if anyone would like to point me in the right direction! 

Now............

I've been doing my home work in the cookie cutter section & base on this part .........

Select 4 species (Max 5 of each):
â€¢ Pseudotropheus polit
â€¢ Pseudotropheus saulosi
â€¢ Pseudotropheus sp. "Msobo"
â€¢ Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei"
â€¢ Cynotilapia axelrodi
â€¢ Labidochromis caeruleus
â€¢ Labidochromis sp. "Hongi"
â€¢ Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt"
â€¢ Labidochromis chisimulae
â€¢ Iodotropheus sprengerae
â€¢ Cynotilapia afra
Do not mix any two species of Labidochromis, the
Pseudotropheus saulosi with the Pseudotropheus
deep or any two Cynotilapia species.

This is what I have come up with..............

Pseudotropheus saulosi - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1










Labidochromis caeruleus - http://www.cichlid--forum.com/profiles/ ... php?id=713










Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Msuli) - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... p?id=1460/










Pseudotropheus saulosi - Blue males & yellow females?

Labidochromis caeruleus - Yellow labs, easy to get on with from what I've read & a nice colour

Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Msuli) - Purple & yellow, Again a nice colour

So based on the above which (according to the Cookie Cutter) as compatible that leaves to door open for one more species which I am thinking should be a deep blue colour.....

As per the cookie cutter I quite like the look of "Cynotilapia afra (Lundu)" - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1735 - But only grows to 3" (a bit small).

Also from what I've now read some species most want more females to every male (eg: 3:1) & some want all males as females cause aggression (between males)?

My other question is regarding stocking...... I've listed 3 species above & am after a final one to make 4. If I get 4 of each species that gives me a total of 16 (or equivalent 5 of one, 3 of another) will 16 fish in my setup be enough to settle territorial disputes.

I'd rather not go mental on stocking the tank for the sake of it & have filtration issues (even though it appears to be the "norm"). 30 X 5" fish in a 260L tank seems excessive to me & if 16 will do fine I'd like to go with that please.

HOWEVER, this is very new to me & I am "in at the deep end" so to speak so if someone could provide me with any information on why 16 Malawi's in a 260L aquarium would be a problem as well as compatibility issues with the species it'd be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Stuart


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You want to avoid 2 blue barred species. What about Maingano? Deep blue, but stripes instead of bars.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> You want to avoid 2 blue barred species. What about Maingano? Deep blue, but stripes instead of bars.


Ok, this guy - Melanochromis maingano......










So as well as taking into account behavior of the species & sex I also dont want to mix fish that look similar?

Cheers,
Stuart


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Exactly.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks for all the help guys I really appreciate it................

You've got me off to a very good start, A week ago I would have brough 15 "assorted Malawi Cichlids" from my loacl store (sorry LFS) & put them in the tank. I am now researching the species for compatability, I have also found a store 30 miles away we'll call this a NSLFS (Not So Local Fish Store) who stock Malawi species & can get any species I want in a week or two.

Plenty to do while my tank cycles, be back soon


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## jpmuns2006 (Dec 28, 2008)

Hey hold on...quick question.. wont he have a problem with the female saulosi and the yellow labs possibly crossbreeding? I had a beautiful yellow lab male that was trying to crossbreed witha female already so i thought maybe i would bring up that concern here.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi, when you say cross breeding is that the same as hybridization?

Different species of fish that look similar f***ing each other & making wrong-un's? (sorry for the unscientific description).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

That's the jist of it, yes. I don't know about the labs and saulosi. I've never been tempted with saulosi because yellow/orange is not my favorite color.


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## Stevozoid (Jun 7, 2009)

Instead of the salousi why not get dems instead as males and females are all blue and then u have the labs which are yellow. I personally think it would look better as labs are so much of a nicer yellow and i really love dems! Let us no what your final verdict is on the fish you select


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Stevozoid said:


> Instead of the salousi why not get dems instead as males and females are all blue and then u have the labs which are yellow. I personally think it would look better as labs are so much of a nicer yellow and i really love dems! Let us no what your final verdict is on the fish you select


Hi thanks for that that sounds good. I did like the idea of getting blue & yellow in one species, however if I already have the yellow labs then whats the point?

Can I be thick now & say whats the scientific name for "dems" please?

Pseudotropheous Demasoni?


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## Stevozoid (Jun 7, 2009)

yes that is the correct name for them and seeing u already have the labs may aswell keep them. Let me no wat you decide on cheers


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks for that I am going to hit the books tonight & try n' figure this out, so I'll be back later with more suggestions.

I notice the Dem's need to be in a group of 6 I was only looking to do 4 of each species as I only want 16 in my tank but I guess a few more wouldn't hurt.

Am ok only putting 16 non aggressive species in a 4ft / 260 Litre tank, with plenty of rock work? I'd rather have less fish & do less water changes if possible as opposed to putting 30 fish in my tank.

Thanks,
Stuart


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## jpmuns2006 (Dec 28, 2008)

trust me it wasnt something i was trying for! the gf thought they were "pretty" so um yah lol


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You should plan on 50% week water changes regardless of bio load.

Demasoni are not peaceful and you need 12 or more of them to spread the aggression. I don't think you got a final opinion on saulosi and labs, but maybe you want to go back to saulosi?

If you don't put 20 or so fish in this tank (more for certain species) you may have aggression problems.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi thanks for the info, I read that yesterday about them being aggressive..........

I haven't given it a lot of thought ATM as I discovered a bit of a nitrite problem in my community tank so ended up doing my first 50% water change!

What will be the Malawi tank is in my lounge so is near the kitchen & I'll get a python, although I cant find instructions on them. I assume that you connect it to your tap & run it to create a vacuum to drain / clean gravel out your aquarium. You then use it like a hose to fill the aquarium back up with correct temperature water by setting it between the hot & cold tap. Do you then add the water treatment to the aquarium as your filling it so not to shock the fish with raw tap water?

The other issue I am having is there are so many different species of Mbuna to choose from how do you possibly begin where to begin? I am not interested in breeding, I just want A nice colourful tank! Lets say I went with the first 2 options from my previous list..........

*Labidochromis caeruleus* - http://www.cichlid--forum.com/profiles/ ... php?id=713










*Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Msuli)* - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... p?id=1460/










What other options do I have opposed to or as well as the Saulosi? I think I would like to go with some blue Species (I am not to keen on the colours of the Rusty's).........

Whats the temperament of the "Melanochromis maingano" - Are they aggressive?










I am sure the cookie cutter said pick 4-5 species no more than 4 of each, I guess that's where I got 16-20 fish from. I guess if I am going to do 50% water changes weekly it doesn't matter how many fish I have & in that case 30 would be better 

Thanks,
Stuart


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## jpmuns2006 (Dec 28, 2008)

maingano's are touch and go with aggression for me. But if you do wanna an attractive tank they are the way to go. Definatly an attention getter for me.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

jpmuns2006 said:


> maingano's are touch and go with aggression for me. But if you do wanna an attractive tank they are the way to go. Definatly an attention getter for me.


Hi, thanks for the response.....

When you say "touch & go" does this mean they occasionally have a pop but nothing serious?

I think I am looking for 4 species with 5 maybe 6 of each giving me a total of just over 20 fish.....


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The three least aggressive mbuna are labs, acei and rusties.

You've already got labs and acei. If rusties are out you need to go to the next level of aggression, LOL. Unless you want haps/peacocks. I know, expand the choices.

I would do the maingano. For a fourth species, if you can live with one excellent male and some drab females, how about Cynotilapia afra Jalo Reef?


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks for that, is there a rough guide of "the next level of aggression"?

I like the look of the Cynotilapia afra Jalo Reef, but take it I wouldn't be able to put them in with Saulosi as they share the same style of banding (or would I as the colours are different)?










now that you mention it whats the deal with Haps & Peacocks? I am all up for expanding the choice's, I spent last night trying to find a complete other set of compatible fish, to keep my options open.....

Below is one section of the cookie cutter, does this mean I could have the following ammount of each species?

â€¢ Labidochromis caeruleus - 3
â€¢ Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" - 3
â€¢ Pseudotropheus sp. "Elongatus Chewere"- 3
â€¢ Pseudotropheus socolofi - 3
â€¢ Labeotropheus fulleborni - 1:2
â€¢ Pseudotropheus saulosi - 1:2
â€¢ Synodontis multipunctatus - 6

Whats the deal with more aggressive fish? Can I not mix them with fish that aren't as aggressive & therefore need to put them with other species which will give as good as they get?

(I brought every Malawi book I could find of eBay & this forum has been 100X more helpful).

Thanks


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!

After being on here for a couple of weeks I've just discovered the "Profiles" section! Sorry Poeple I am off to do more homework be back soon with some results.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/


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## youngman (May 16, 2009)

doh !! lol


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## Jab240 (Jun 24, 2007)

Jab240 said:


> Yes Mbuna, Peacocks, and Haps are all different types of Malawi. Peacocks and haps are more closely related and go together quite well. Compatibilty with all 3 is possible but a little more difficult. *Have a look in the Profiles section for more detailed individual descriptions of each fish. *
> 
> Goofboy's suggested stock list of 30 young fish is indeed possible with your tank size but you would have to practice over-filtration and maintain regular water changes. Over-filtration is actually the norm and not an extreme for most cichlid keepers. HTH


 :lol: I guess you missed that part of my post a few weeks ago. Its one of my favorite sections of the forum. Enjoy.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Jab240 wrote:
> Yes Mbuna, Peacocks, and Haps are all different types of Malawi. Peacocks and haps are more closely related and go together quite well. Compatibilty with all 3 is possible but a little more difficult. Have a look in the Profiles section for more detailed individual descriptions of each fish.
> 
> Goofboy's suggested stock list of 30 young fish is indeed possible with your tank size but you would have to practice over-filtration and maintain regular water changes. Over-filtration is actually the norm and not an extreme for most cichlid keepers. HTH
> ...


What is that saying 'You can lead a fish to water...', or something like that :roll:? Glad to see Kaosone finally made it there.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Eh? made it there?

Now I am more confused than ever? I have 100's of species to choose from as opposed to the several in the cookie cutter.........

:-?


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## canuckle (Nov 30, 2004)

Kaosone, trying to figure out your stock list is fun, confusing, and frustrating, all at the same time. Best advice I have is this...

1. Decide how many fish you want/can afford/can handle in your tank
2. If you're down to 'one more' and are stuck, take the advice of someone on the forum you trust as far as compatibility, and go with it
3. Don't turn your mind inside out! Chances are good that a year from now you'll make some changes to what you like based on your experience.

Personally I prefer Mbuna, and I like a lot of different colors. I have several species that are considered 'highly aggressive', and I do the following...keep a high number of females for each of those males, and ensure there is LOTS of potential territory for them to claim. I still have a lot of work to do on my landscaping in the tank, but you can get the idea if you have a look at mine (click the tanks button at bottom of this post).

Good luck...you'll love whatever you decide, promise!


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## jdt199 (Jun 17, 2009)

Hows it going then? I am having the same issues as you! Its a nightmare. So difficult to decide. You think you found a mix that is good then hear they are too aggressive together. Very frustrating!


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## canuckle (Nov 30, 2004)

If you're asking how mine is going, it's going fine. 60 fish keep the aggression down, and lots of females keep the males busy. There's the odd chase here and there, but nothing too serious.

If you were asking Kaosone how the decisions are coming, well sorry for jumping in, lol.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

jdt199 said:


> Hows it going then? I am having the same issues as you! Its a nightmare. So difficult to decide. You think you found a mix that is good then hear they are too aggressive together. Very frustrating!


Hi, I think I am getting somewhere......

I started another thread here more specificaly relating to the compatibility of certain species & I think I getting the the point where I have several options to choose from.....

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=197329

Nothings final yet & once I have maybe 5-6 species that I like I guess I'll have to figure which will be most compatible & setect the final 4 as it were & then look at stocking numbers etc. I guess there is no harm in putting a semi-aggressive species in as long as the tanks stocked correctly?

I am picking similar sets of similar fish, eg several blue bared etc then if one wont get along with another species on my list (same family or whatever) then I have anoter species of similar colour/markings to replace them with.

It's not as stressful as it was a week ago & I am having fun doing the reasearch, although it is a bit frustrating when you think you've got it sorted then you find one species wont work & the one you choose to replace it with has compatibility issues with something else on the list!


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

canuckle said:


> Kaosone, trying to figure out your stock list is fun, confusing, and frustrating, all at the same time. Best advice I have is this...
> 
> 1. Decide how many fish you want/can afford/can handle in your tank
> 2. If you're down to 'one more' and are stuck, take the advice of someone on the forum you trust as far as compatibility, and go with it
> ...


Hi Canuckle, Thanks for the advise.....

Am I correct in assuming it's easier for you to have more aggressive species in you tank as its 3x the size of mine. I am aware it's possible I just think that maybe I'll give the highly aggressive stuff a miss as this is my first Malawi tank.

Do you have any larger pictures of your tank as it's a bit hard to get the full perspective of it from that little one? I don't have any plants in my tank it's just gravel & caves although I am considering throwing some plants in the sides to help disguise the heater & filter tubes.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You can mix aggressive and non-aggressive fish. Just avoid auratus, kenyi, crabro and the ultimate aggressive fish entirely.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> You can mix aggressive and non-aggressive fish. Just avoid auratus, kenyi, crabro and the ultimate aggressive fish entirely.


Hi DJ, Thanks for that....

I notice from your signature you have Demasoni, I've been considoring these or maybe Coube as I am not sure if the two would go together.

Could I mix the Dem's in with the basic stuff I am consdoring as long as I have the correct amount 10-15. Say I go with 12 of them what's the male/female ratio?

Thanks,
Stuart


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## canuckle (Nov 30, 2004)

Kaosone said:


> canuckle said:
> 
> 
> > Kaosone, trying to figure out your stock list is fun, confusing, and frustrating, all at the same time. Best advice I have is this...
> ...


Hey Kaosone,

If you'd like to PM me your email, I'd be happy to send you some pics...can't figure out how to post them in a thread, lol.

Cheers,

Mike


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

canuckle said:


> Hey Kaosone,
> 
> If you'd like to PM me your email, I'd be happy to send you some pics...can't figure out how to post them in a thread, lol.
> 
> ...


PM sent, I use photo bucket ( www.photobucket.com ) create an account, upload the images then post & link to the image in the text which hosts it in the forum from photobuckets server.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You are changing your list so fast I can't keep up. But I'm the one that keeps saying "don't mix blue barred fish." Demasoni are blue barred and Cobue are blue barred. So no, I would not combine them.

Also Cobue tend to color up poorly unless they are the dominant fish in the tank, and Cobue are on the timid side.

There is no male/female ratio with Demasoni, you just keep a LOT. In my 75G I have 20 or more and I still have to remove the occasional victim fish a couple times/year. In my tank the victim is usually a sub-dom male so my fish are telling me there are too many males in the tank.

This is ongoing because I do have survivor fry and additional males continue to mature.

That cookie cutter with 6 species and 3 individuals of each? That's not my favorite and I think it would not have the best odds for success.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

The blue bared species I was considoring were either Saulosi, Dem's & Cobue. I've gone of the dems as of the aggressiveness & high stocking level so am currently thinking either Cobue or Chewere will be my blue barred species.



DJRansome said:


> That cookie cutter with 6 species and 3 individuals of each? That's not my favorite and I think it would not have the best odds for success.


What would you recomend then? I do feel I am in the process of picking the most basic, practical tank currently thinking something along the lines of yellow labs, cobue/chewere, acei & a 4th species (but maybe this is a good thing as its my first malawi tank).


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think you've had several suggestions that I would do:

from GoofBoy:

6 Labidochromis caeruleus 
6 Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Msuli) 
6 Aulonocara "German Red" 
6 Copadichromis azureus 
6 Synodontis multipunctatus

Your own idea:

Saulosi
Labs
Acei
Maingano

And your most recent idea:

Chewere
Labs
Acei
Species #4???

You are just substituting the Chewere for the Saulosi, which is fine. Again I'd suggest the maingano for the 4th species.

Chewere are more aggressive than cobue and should be able to color up in that tank.

What is wrong with the ones already in this thread?


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> What is wrong with the ones already in this thread?


Nothings wrong really, It just seems odd to me that with about 800 species from lake Malawi all I can come up with is labs, acei, something blue barred & another species which is the circle I seem to keep going round in?

Plus labs & acei are the "plug & play" Malawi's that go with anything, so surely there are more options? Or have I ended up this way as I don't want to go with anything particulary aggressive? Like Maingano, nice looking but I'd rather just stock my tank & live happiler ever after rather than come home from work try to figure out who's killed who & remove them.

Just looking to explore all the possibilites before I make a decision.

Now off to look at the whole Hap / Peacock thing from Goofboy's recomendation!


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Or a dwarf setup I always through would look awesome if you are locking into mbuna:

Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt" 
Pseudotropheus saulosi
Iodotropheus sprengerae 
Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos

Oh, there are just so many ways to go - really depends on what you can actually find/get.

Deciding is half the fun - then a year later I want to blow it up and try something else .


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Now off to look at the whole Hap / Peacock thing from Goofboy's recomendation!


For Hap/Peacock Blue/Yellow tank - I currently like the idea of a juvi stocking of:

6 Aulonocara stuartgranti (Usisya)
6 Copadichromis azureus 
6 Otopharynx lithobates (Z-Rock)
6 Placidochromis electra Likoma (in person - WOW!!!)

Oh the choices . I personally like haps/peacocks better, watching a males color up over the months/years, that they are calmer, tend to be out more, but your mileage will certainly vary.

Good Luck.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The reason you are going in circles is the bar you set on aggression. If you want guaranteed less aggressive than maingano and restricted to mbuna, then you are going to get labs, acei and rusties.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

I had a play with the larger more aggressive, Mbuna Cookie cutter & this is (roughly) what I came up with. Just playing with species that look different & by no means difinitive.

So by selecting more aggressive species what are the difference between the calmer tanks with labs, acei etc?

Pseudotropheus sp. "Elongatus Ruarwe" - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=2287










Metriaclima estherae (Red Zebra) - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1730










Labidochromis sp. "Hongi" - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=727










Cynotilapia afra (Jalo Reef) - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1733


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## canuckle (Nov 30, 2004)

Kaosone,

The primary difference in a 4 foot and 6 foot tank is less definable areas for your dominant males to claim and protect.

I'd be hesitant to put more than 3/ breeding groups in a 4 foot tank (but I may be over cautious). Just make sure you have 1 male for every 4/5 females...if you have 15 Red Zebras, no more than 3 males.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

canuckle said:


> Kaosone,
> 
> The primary difference in a 4 foot and 6 foot tank is less definable areas for your dominant males to claim and protect.
> 
> I'd be hesitant to put more than 3/ breeding groups in a 4 foot tank (but I may be over cautious). Just make sure you have 1 male for every 4/5 females...if you have 15 Red Zebras, no more than 3 males.


So restricting to 3 species, like I said it was not a definatave plan, just an example.

As mentioned before by DJRansome the reason I kept coming up with Labs, Saulosi & Rustys was because I limited my self to non aggressive species. So should I raise the bar and decied to do a tank of mildly aggressive/aggressive species then what would the difference between the two be?

Would having more aggressive species just be a case of sort teh aggressors/victems as problems arrise & then let the tank get along or is there more to it than that.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You can mix aggression levels. What are your favorite fish in rank order?

The mix you came up with has multiple blue barred fish again, LOL. Elongatus and Jalo Reef. Plus, the zebras are the only colorful females. You chose 3 species with one colorful male and a dozen drab females, LOL.

Don't forget, unless you stray into johanni, crabro, auratus, kenyi, etc., having more aggressive fish just gives you a more active tank. And you have to eliminate extra males as they mature.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> The mix you came up with has multiple blue barred fish again, LOL.


Doh! I figured the Elongatus Ruarwe was blick' (although see your point it's bars are blue) 

So then referring to my previous statement the difference with the higher aggression level will be that I'd need to have tighter control with violence in my tank? Which I possibly wouldn't have to deal with if I had rustys, saulosi, labs......?



DJRansome said:


> You can mix aggression levels.


So referring to the above statement I could say mix acei with kenyi (as an example) even though ones more aggressive that they other? As the kenyi would have a higher rank in the tank as opposed to killing the acei?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

This is the difference of having more aggressive fish in your tank:



DJRansome said:


> unless you stray into johanni, crabro, auratus, kenyi, etc., having more aggressive fish just gives you a more active tank. And you have to eliminate extra males as they mature.


I'd still stay away from kenyi. But to go with your example, kenyi and acei could be combined in a 75G tank. You would need a lot of kenyi females and one male. Maybe 1m:7f.

Mostly the fish harass each other within a species. So the single male will harass any other kenyi males (which is why you make sure there aren't any) and the females, trying to breed. Which is why you make sure there are a LOT of them so he doesn't chase any individual to her death.


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## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Ok back to the drawing board, I am going to wear out my crayons at this rate!


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