# ammonia not going down



## mfish1 (Dec 31, 2011)

I seeded my tank with media from another tank and tetra safe start. After adding fish I had a small ammonia spike (.25ppm) and have been doing daily water changes since (25 gals on a 55gal tank). I've done that every day for the past 3 weeks and have added 2 bottles of Dr. Tim's one and only and 3 bottles of tetra safe start total during that time. I also added more filter media from another tank. The last few days my ammonia has been 1ppm. I did 2, 25 gallon water changes today (1 in the am, 1 in the pm) and the ammonia is still at .5ppm. I test the water about an hour after doing the water change, and add ammo lock after testing, this way it's less likely the ammo lock is altering the test results. What the heck is going on here?

I have 7 peacocks, 1 hap in the tank and a Rena filstar xp3 filter


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

Let's start with testing for Nitrite.

What's going on is the cycle is starting. Read this for more info on a cycle
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cycling.php
You really shouldn't have stocked this tank so heavily, and more preferably you should have done a fishless cycle prior to introducing fish to the tank.
More on fishless cycling: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... _cycle.php


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Well...if you are adding dechlorinator to your water, such as prime, you need to wait 24hrs to test or you will likely get false positives if using regent based test kits.

All you can really do right now, unless you add even more bio media from elsewhere, is to continue on with small water changes every day or every other day. You could do 35-40% every two days testing on the second day(again...at least 24hrs later). Your nitrifying bacteria will eventually catch up even with the water changes. I would just try and limit the food to one small feeding a day.


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## mfish1 (Dec 31, 2011)

Sorry should have been more clear in my first post. I did do a fishless cycle prior to adding fish. I expected maybe a small ammonia spike after adding fish since the bioload would be more than what the fishless cycle would have accounted for, but I didn't expect anything like this. I have been testing for nitrites and they've been consistantly 0 since adding the fish


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Keep using the detox, stop feeding entirely for a few days. Ammolock does NOT alter test results. All it does is bind up toxic ammonia into something non toxic. The kits we use measure total ammonia, so doesn't matter what form it's in, results are the same.

You've disrupted your bacteria somehow. Continued tinkering may continue to disrupt. Leave the filters alone, and don't add more media. Do 25% water changes daily and see how it goes. Avoid anything larger unless ammonia is high enough to cause the fish distress. Ammolock will bind up to 3ppm. If fish seem fine and ammonia is around 1ppm, leave it all alone and let things get established. I know, easier said than done. But, this is a case where trying to do too much can do the opposite of what we intended.

More details about cycling would help determine what went wrong, but that can wait. My guess would be some system change happened too soon after cycle was complete. Usually it's the nitrite converters that get disrupted though, not the ammonia converters.


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## mfish1 (Dec 31, 2011)

Thanks guys. All the fish seem perfectly fine. Maybe I won't do a water change today then and just add the ammo lock? I'm about to test the water in a minute. I'll post the results and more detailed info about what i did to cycle the tank etc later when I geta chance.


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## mfish1 (Dec 31, 2011)

Ok so ammonia looked to be below 1ppm, slightly higher than .5 though. Nitrites were still 0. I added some ammo-lock but held off on doing a water change as much as it pains me.

To cycle the tank initially i added 1 bottle of tetra safe start, filter media from another tank and then added ammonia until i got to 4ppm. Once my ammonia dropped I added ammonia to get it to 2ppm then waited until nitrites to spike, then finally nitrates. once i was at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 30 nitrates i did a small water change to drop down the nitrates then added fish. The 3rd day with fish I saw a small (.25ppm) ammonia spike which i sort of expected since i added all 8 fish at once. I thought it was better to do it that way with peacocks to minimize the risk of new additions getting beat up. At this point I did a 25% water change and added a bottle of dr. tims. Here is where I think I screwed up. After a couple more days at .25 (and doing water changes daily) I got nervous and added more media and another bottle of Dr. tims. From that point on the ammonia creeped up to 1ppm over the next few days despite water changes. So somewhere in that process of adding media, or doing daily water changes I must have screwed up the bacteria colony I had going.

I'll test again tomorrow. I'm hoping it's a good sign that the ammonia seemed lower today despite no water changes. So hopefully it will keep going down. If it doesnt go down any more, but is 1ppm or below tomorrow, should I do a water change or just keep dosing ammo-lock?

I didn't feed yesterday btw and only did a very light feeding this morning


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

The problem with your cycle was that you actually need to keep adding ammonia until it can be completely transferred to nitrate in under 24 hours. So Every time is zero's out, you add it again until it zero's in a day.


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## mfish1 (Dec 31, 2011)

dsouthworth said:


> The problem with your cycle was that you actually need to keep adding ammonia until it can be completely transferred to nitrate in under 24 hours. So Every time is zero's out, you add it again until it zero's in a day.


Ok so I guess I screwed that up. It looks like there are colonies growing in the intake and output hoses on my canister filter, so i guess thats a good sign.

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... 171341.jpg

I held off on doing a water change today again and just added ammo-lock. the readings are 1ppm ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10ppm nitrates


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

Nitrates are a good sign!! keep it up mfish!


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## Shahlvah (Dec 28, 2011)

When I am cycimg the tank I don't do such a large water changes, just about 20-25%, that help build the bacterial colony and I am not washing it away with a 50% water change.
Let your bacterial filter get established, that one of the reasons we don't do it with fish, because the fish might suffer. Once the bacterial colony is establish and you have added fish then you can do larger water changes, but by then you will have beneficial bacteria in your tank, your filter, the substrate, rocks, plants, etc.

Ammonia is bad, Nitrites are bad....Nitrates are a good sign that your bacterial filter is working.so if your ammonia is going down, your nitrites are zero and you have low nitrates, you are almost there.


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## Polarbear69 (Mar 2, 2012)

Usually takes 2-4 weeks for the complete cycle to finish. Light feedings and minimal fish in tank is preferred until good bacteria is established. Smaller water changes of 15-25% is also preferred over large ones. Be patient and stick to the program as Shahivah says your very close to the finish line.


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## mfish1 (Dec 31, 2011)

My ammonia is still reading at just under 1ppm. I've only been doing water changes every 3 days and adding ammo-lock every day. I put in an airstone as well, but my fish are starting to breath heavier. Is there anything I can do at this point?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

mfish1 said:


> My ammonia is still reading at just under 1ppm. I've only been doing water changes every 3 days and adding ammo-lock every day. I put in an airstone as well, but my fish are starting to breath heavier. Is there anything I can do at this point?


I am not sure about ammo-lock but with many of these products that bind ammonia to make it less toxic it will show false positives on your regent based test kits. In the case of prime you have to wait a minimum of 24hrs to test with one of these kits. Just throwing out that as a possibility.


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## mfish1 (Dec 31, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> mfish1 said:
> 
> 
> > My ammonia is still reading at just under 1ppm. I've only been doing water changes every 3 days and adding ammo-lock every day. I put in an airstone as well, but my fish are starting to breath heavier. Is there anything I can do at this point?
> ...


Thanks.

However I really feel like a fool right now. My test kit was running low so I went and picked up a new one. When I got home I tested the water and it read 8ppm!!! I tested 3 more times and got the same reading, so I went to my lfs and got it tested, same thing. I just did a 75% water change. I'm not sure if that is because the ammo-lock or what. My fish don't seem to be that bad where you would look at them and think they had been exposed to levels like that. 2 of them had heavier than normal breathing, but the rest seem relatively fine and other than the labored breathing in 2 of them, there are no other signs of stress


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## trashburner (Feb 28, 2012)

Test the water source that your putting in the tank.


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## mfish1 (Dec 31, 2011)

trashburner said:


> Test the water source that your putting in the tank.


0ppm


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