# Apistogramma borellii?



## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

Well I am super disappointed that my GBR tank did not work out. I have lost a pair and a trio of them and think I should give up on them  I was looking for something else suitable for the former 20g ram tank and came across Apistogramma borellii which stay really small. Do these guys form pairs or work better in trios? I think I will try them next since they seem to be easier keepers.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

they can be kept as trios, pairs, groups etc. These are the least territorial of all apistogramma and more than one male can be kept together in a majority of cases (I say that as there is always that one fish... :lol: )

Don't know if I'd call them any easier than Rams... bit hardier, but still die off if the water parameters are not up to what they need.


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## cichlify (Sep 1, 2009)

*** heard that rams can be even more finicky with water conditions than discus!


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

Number6 said:


> Don't know if I'd call them any easier than Rams... bit hardier, but still die off if the water parameters are not up to what they need.


This is what I am hoping; hardier! My parameters were close to perfect for the rams but I think the water changes got them as the tap is harder than the water in the tank. Even small water changes stressed them. Medicating them was impossible as pimafix totally killed them. So..... should I order 3 for a 20g then?


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

The apistos would deffinately appreciate the cooler water of your planted tank more than the rams would. The Opal Borelli are very, very pretty. :thumb:


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## aspen (Jun 15, 2004)

borellii prefer cooler water than rams, 78 deg or so. i keep rams up to 86 deg and even warmer at times. this will affect potential tankmates.

ime, s/a's that have been kept trouble free for a will last a bit of hard treatment. new fish are riskier, and note also that breeding fish are more tempermental than otherwise. ime most dwarfs will breed almost right away after bringng them home. maybe the coler water in the bag? so that is the best time for 'stress free living' ime.

borellii's will breed successfully in relatively harder water than most other dwarfs, and they are the easiest to sex when young. i've raised 1/2 spawns or more in toronto tapwater. (med hard, ph 7.8)

rick


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

All good news. I had a hard time keeping the tank any warmer than 80. I had it at 86 at one time and my tetras started to die. The tank is a steady 78 sometimes up to 80 on warm days and rarely down to 76 at night. So a trio then or a pair? The footprint is on the small size, probibly a little larger than the equivilat of a standard 10g because it is a hexagonal tank.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Given the footprint, I'd stick to only a pair. :thumb:


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Just a thumbs up for borellis. I had a pair and I was totally besotted by them. Unfortunately, my male took ill and died after maybe six months. Nothing that I could treat or identify. His girlfriend was (and still is) just fine. I chose not to replace the boy and the girl is now in a larger tank with Bolivians (and holding her own). I, too, have trouble wiht blue rams, switched to apistos (agassisi and borellis) and didn't have much luck either. Although the tanks were lovely, planted, with great water. So I finally went to Bolivians, which I'm quite happy with. They are hardier, boisterous, lots of fun. So I'd say go for the borelli's but if that doesn't end up working, consider Bolivians . . . (laetacara curviceps is another thought, too)


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

> So I'd say go for the borelli's but if that doesn't end up working, consider Bolivians . . . (laetacara curviceps is another thought, too)


Just not in a small hexagonal tank. I'd not keep a pair of curviceps in any thing less than a 20 gallon long.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

hollyfish2000 said:


> I, too, have trouble wiht blue rams,


Ahaha it seems to me that ich is the most common tankmate associated with blue rams.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Darkside said:


> hollyfish2000 said:
> 
> 
> > I, too, have trouble wiht blue rams,
> ...


That and poor quality asian farm bred Blue rams.

As for the borellii, they can handle temps of around 74f quite comfortably for extended periods of time. I'd see 78f as the upper end of thier prefered water temperature. There are many populations of A. borellii found in southern Brazil, and northern Argentina and Urugauy, in the Rio Parana and Rio Paragauy river systems. They are not an amazon basin cichlid, but found quite a bit south of the amazon.

I like using the South American River Systems map found in the C-F library when looking at the distribution of SA cichlids.


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

Here's a heads up on _borelli_. Most of the fish in retail stores that are labeled with this name aren't _borelli_, but _Apistogramma _sp. "Steel Blue", which may or may not be a hybrid (still debated among Dwarf enthusiasts). I've had two populations of _A. borelli_, the older strain actually preferred warm tanks, but the "Opal" variant came from further south and thrived in the mid 70s F. Dan Fromm reported seeing females with fry in water at 65 degrees F. in the wild in Uruguay, but I'd take that one with a grain of salt.

I'll try to drop some photos in here later, if I remember.

I remembered. First is a male from the old aquarium strain.










This is an Opal male. Note the yellow in both, and the high dorsal. Steel Blue doesn't have either of these features.










And just for good measure, here's an Opal female with fry.


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## ladybugzcrunch (Jul 26, 2009)

Nice thanks! I think I will try aquabid for these guys.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *Chromedome52*,

Recently (early this year) a new specialist LFS opened up on my side of town. One of the fish it specialises on is Apistogramma and other dwarf SA cichlids. There almost always is a tank of very nice borellii for sale, they look very similar to the photo of the male from the old aquarium strain, only thier dorsal fins would be much higher.


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

Bring this post up from the dead.

Ladybugz, did you ever try the apistos, specifically the Borelli?

I was thinking of getting some. Kind of getting scared off by how hard thet seem to keep alive.

....Bill


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