# Ich: 3 questions



## 3000GT (Jan 18, 2014)

I have a few questions regarding Ich treatment and would appreciate everyone's help (sorry for the long post).

Just to start it off, I have read the great article on this site on Ich (as well as some others) and am following the high temp & salt approach. Slowly moving temp to 82-84 and slowly adding 2 tablespoons of Aquarium salt per gallon. I just started this last night when I first noticed spots and temp should be at target today (normally was as 78-79) but thinking I'll be at full salinity by tomorrow sometime.

*Question 1: SALT:* When adding the salt, I understand that you should dissolve the salt in some separate tank water outside of the actual tank and then add it to the tank. I'm doing that, but I don't know why. What are the issues with adding a little salt directly to the tank over a long period? Years ago when I had a smaller tropical community tank, there was a time when I was adding salt to the tank and I just dropped it in as needed with water changes and it didn't seem to cause any issues.

*Question 2: NETS*: I generally see the advice that you should have separate nets for your main and your quarrantine tanks. I'm generally putting my net in one tank (either main or quarrantine) to get a fish and then putting the net with the fish in the other tank. So at that point, I'm not sure what having separate nets would do for me. Only thing I can think of is that you need to bring a third container into the mix to put the fish in when moving from tank to tank. Is that the recommendation?

*Question 3: WHERE DID THE ICH COME FROM:* Ok. this is probably a can of worms given what I've read on Ich, but I'm curious. I just added a new fish (hippo point salmon) to my quarrantine tank on Saturday. He was pale after the move but otherwise seemed fine. On Sunday I moved him to the main tank. I know that 1 day is not a real quarrantine. The LFS where I got him has a 7 day return policy and I wasn't sure he would get along with my peacocks so I wanted to make sure I had time so see them interact before the 7 days expired. After a few hours in the tank he colored up nicely and all seemd good. Monday night I come home and notice definite ich spots on two fish and looks like a couple on a third fish but nothing on the salmon. He also looked good in the fish store in a tank with other salmons and a lot of peacocks. At this point, he's flashing (as are some of the other fish with and without spots) which I'm assuming is from the Ich and not the salt. Could he have been carrying a small amount of Ich, maybe on his gills and the stress of the move aggrivated the situation? The last new fish to the tank were added the prior weekend, so about 9 days before I noticed the Ich so I don't think it's from them. This is not the first time that I've picked up fish from this LFS that look great in the store but then I get Ich after bringing them home (haven't shopped there in years). Unfortunately I don't have a lot of local options for africal cichlids so I gave it another shot. I had more local options when I had general tropicals.

Stats/Parameters:
60 gallon tank: 48"w x 12"d x 24"h
PH: 7.8
Amonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates 5ppm
KH: 4 
GH: 7
- I know KH/GH is low for africans. I've been adding crushed coral to the filter for a few weeks and GH is now at 7 vs 5 where it was before. KH has not moved yet.
- Tank has been up for about 2 months now, but was seeded with filter, substrate and decor from my prior tank (29 gallon).
- Water changes of about 30% - 40% weekly with Prime.
- Current stock is 3 peacocks, 1 Intermedius, 1 Hippo point salmon


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

When administering additives to aquariums I think it's generally better to premix rather than add directly. This way you ensure the material is sufficiently dissolved prior to introduction and eliminates any potential issues. This would fall under 'best practice' in my book.
You're correct regarding the nets. It makes no sense to use separate nets unless there's a third container involved, perhaps for baths or dips or for adding to or removing from bags.
As with many parasites, ich is thought to be naturally occurring in many fish but grows out of control, or gains a foothold in stressed fish or fish that are subjected to an environment containing more of the parasite than what was in their previous environment.


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## 3000GT (Jan 18, 2014)

One more question: If my quarrantine tank has been empty since noon on Suday at around 80 to 82 degrees (normal) and as of Tuesday morning has been at 86 degrees or higher (thermometer max is 86, heater is set at 88), when would it be safe to add a new fish?

Would I be able to add a new fish on Thursday night? Or would I be better served by just draining the entire tank and filling with clean water. The tank has no substrate, but does have some artificial plants and decor. My concern with draining and refilling is damage to the biological filter which would be dry for maybe 30 to 60 minutes (not sure). I could probably add beneficial bacteria (e.g. seachem Stability or something like that) to prevent a re-cycle. Or is it just too risky at this point to add anything to the quarrantine tank?

I would normally wait longer to get another fish but I will be traveling on Thursday and will happen to be near a good Fish store that is normally 1.5 hours away from me.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

2-4 days should be sufficient to remove all living ich parasites from the tank. At 80 degrees, 4 days. At 86 degrees, 2 days should be sufficient so I think you should be ok to add new fish Thursday night.
If you have an extra heater, increase the temp to 90F to remove any doubt.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

GTZ said:


> increase the temp to 90F to remove any doubt.


+1. It'll make your fish really really unhappy but it won't kill them. And the ich will die a horrible death.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

pablo111 said:


> GTZ said:
> 
> 
> > increase the temp to 90F to remove any doubt.
> ...


Empty tank.


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## 3000GT (Jan 18, 2014)

Update on my tank:

- I had my tank between 84 and 85 degrees with 2 tablespoons per gallon for 10 days. Last time I saw any possible Ich was Tuesday or Wednesday. I continued to leave the tank with salt and high temp until the 10 day mark which was Saturday (which was also at least 3 days after the last signs of Ich). 
- Everyone seemed to be doing fine with the treatment. The main fish that was really impacted was the hippo point salmon (who started the whole thing when he was introduced to the tank). He didn't show much then in the middle of treatment, he looked a bit rough skinned, then that cleared up and he seemed good. 
- On Sunday (after the 10 days), I did a larger water change (~25 gallons from a 60 gallon tank) and started dropping the temp gradually to around 81-82 degrees.* Everyone seems good except the Hippo point salmon. As of last night and this morning, he's breathing heavily.* I was going to keep dropping the temp to normal (~78), but stopped when I saw him breathing heavily. I've had a large air stone going in the tank the whole time and he's not at the top of the tank. He usually has his own area at the bottom of the tank and he's still there like normal. He's swimming ok, but seems a bit sluggish. 
- I think that maybe I should have just done a small water change as the clean water I used didn't have any salt in it, so maybe that was too much change for him? I had recalled reading that I should do a large water change after Ich treatment, but maybe that was for the medicated approach, not the salt approach. Everyone else seems fine. I'll check him out when I get home from work today, but not sure what I should do. Should I add some salt back to the tank or just wait it out and let him adjust without making any other changes? My quarrantine tank is currently occupied with some new arrivals. I do have an empty 20 gallon I could pull out, but I'd have to find the filter and buy a heater for it and it wouldn't be cycled.


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## 3000GT (Jan 18, 2014)

I saw a long clear / white poop from the hippo point salmon tonight. He's still eating fine but also still breathing heavily. Could it be bloat caused by the stress of the post ich water change? Water parameters are fine. Here are two pics of the poop. 
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[URL=http://s881.photobucket.com/user/Mayando/media/20140324_183800_zps0266904f.jpg.html]


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Bloat is unlikely for fish that are eating. What are you feeding?
With regards to the water change, you're correct in thinking it may have been too much. Altering salinity levels is best done gradually. I recommend a series of 5-10% water changes over a day or two.


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## 3000GT (Jan 18, 2014)

I'm feeding them mostly Tetra Crisps. I was originally feeding them Aqueon mini cichlid pellets, but sometimes when the fish were new they seemed to have trouble with those, so I tried the Crisps that I had in house and they seemed to really enjoy those and to eat them easily. I sometimes go back to the pellets instead of the crips. I occasionally (once every week or two) will throw in some freeze dried krill or bloodworms after some of the crisps. Also, once every couple weeks I've given them frozen brine shrimp instead of the crisps. I had thought about chaning the main food to New Life Spectrum Cichlid pellets eventually, but was going to get through my current food supply first.

The 60 gallon tank currently has 3 peacocks ranging from 2.5 to 4 inches, one intermedius at 5 inches or so and the hippo point salmon at around 4 inches.

From a water perspective, should I just leave everything as is this week to not stress the salmon any more for a while and then over the weekend do a couple of smaller changes to remove the salt?


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## 3000GT (Jan 18, 2014)

Also, temp is currently around 82 degrees. Should I resume gradually moving temp back down to nomal of around 78? Maybe that will make breathing easier for the salmon?

Oh, also I feed them just once a day.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Gradual reductions in temp and salinity should be fine. I'd discontinue the blood worms, perhaps the krill as well. Brine should be fine once every week or two.


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## 3000GT (Jan 18, 2014)

So the salmon is still not doing well. He still looks like hes breathing heavily or at least always has his mouth open. Hes lethargic. Hes still eatimg but seems like hes loosing interest and having a harder time eating. Everyone else is fine in the tank. I also don't see any other external issues on him. It's been 4 days now. The tank is at just over 78 degrees, has a large air stone running and is a few inches low to oxygenate the water better.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Are you still seeing stringy poop? Judging from your description, I'd isolate him in a separate tank and begin a metronidazole laced food and epsom salt treatment. Check the bloat article linked below. If you need a cheap source for metro, send me a PM.


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