# Blue Gene JD Spawned today



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

They were not happy to see me up in their face with the camera. 
The female is on the left in every picture.
The tank is a 29 gallon.
They were put in this tank 8 days ago and have had one 50% water change since. 
Temp is 78*



















Female:


















Male:


















Close up of the male sex organ. The female would not position herself to get a good shot :? 


















I'm going to print out picture #4 to count the eggs out of curiosity. I will post the results shortly.

Questions and comments are always welcome.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Forgot to add a full tank shot:


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## Nina_b (Jan 3, 2011)

Congratulations - They are gorgeous fish!


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## simo1973 (Jul 22, 2007)

lovely looking pair you have there. (JD`S)
keep the pics coming especialy when th wriggelers come along.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I will try to post more pics. I'm leaving tomorrow for pittsburgh and will not be home till thursday afternoon. By then they should be hatched into wrigglers.

I thought about pulling the eggs but I will not be home to baby sit them. This is an established pair who has spawned many times. This is the first time they have spawned for me.

FYI, I'm up to 600 eggs thus far and my hand is soar from coloring them in on the print out! LOL


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

according to the fourth picture... 1080 eggs, not including what's in the shadows!

That's nuts!


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## marinerm10 (Feb 2, 2010)

Is this a temporary thing with them being in a 29 gallon or are you going to move them out at a later date?

I was going to do the same thing and move my pair into a 25 gallon to breed them.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

That's a darn good looking pair *TFG*. :thumb:

Love the light on the tank next to theirs, never thought of using a maglight for an aquarium light before.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Yes, this is temporary, the pair was pulled from a 70 gallon (51"x20"x16"tall) for just this reason. If they were not an established pair I would not chance them in such a small tank. The previous owner told me they liked the exact set up they were provided with, but he had spawned them in a standard 75 I believe. They are not exactly huge either, the male is 7" on a good day, female much smaller as you can see by the pictures.

When I return home Thursday evening (hopefully to wrigglers) I might put the parents back into the 70... Then again hopefully the fry will go free swimming before I have to go back out of town on Monday. Either way, before I leave again on Monday I will pull the parents and return them to the 70 they came from...

Thanks for the kind words *dwarfpike*, and you know exactly why there's a flashlight in the fish room! It's for egg hunting!


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## mr limpet (Oct 16, 2007)

Congtates TFG.My BGGG dempseys laid eggs last week and fry became free swimming the other day.This time(the have spawned 2 time previous)I am leaving fry with the parents.I have tried 2 times to remove fry but none survived.Each time there were about 200 fry,parents are only 4 inches.The parents look just like regular JDs but they carry the Blue Gene and Gold Gene.This time there are only about 100 fry,dont know why.Keep us posted when you come back from Pitt.Lets go Jets.


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

Congrats TFG! Beautiful pair! Good luck! :thumb:

I see you have the good ol' handy trusty flash light in that last picture ready for duty :thumb:


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Congrats! :thumb:


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Found out last evening that the last time they spawned was march 17th which explains the insane amount of eggs...

Thanks for the kind words, this pair is on loan to me though and will be going back to their owner after I have viable fry....


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

Wow thats a lot of eggs!

Any chance I can take some of those fry off your hands once they grow up a little? JD's have been on my wish list for a while.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

You can have as many cast offs as you want. I'll be keeping the electric blues.


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

TheFishGuy said:


> You can have as many cast offs as you want. I'll be keeping the electric blues.


_all_ the electric blues? 

Will all the normal colored ones still carry the blue gene? How does the genetics work with these guys anyways?


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

Here are the spawn percentages.

BGJD x BGJD = 25% Electric Blue, 25% BGJD and 50% regular JDs
EBJD x BGJD = 50% Electric Blue and 50% BGJD


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

jason_nj said:


> Here are the spawn percentages.
> 
> BGJD x BGJD = 25% Electric Blue, 25% BGJD and 50% regular JDs
> EBJD x BGJD = 50% Electric Blue and 50% BGJD


Which means 75% of the spawn will be cast offs or culled if you will because there's no way to know who is who.


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

oic.

I didn't know there was a difference between "blue gene" and "electric blue".

I did hear that EBJDxEBJD can not reproduce is this correct?

And if I'm understanding correctly, you can't tell the difference in looks between "blue gene" and normal, which is why they're castoffs?

interesting...


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Yes, you are correct.

I believe the highest yield is 50% and that is when you spawn EBJD X BGJD

When you spawn EBJD X JD all will be BGJD...


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## yuanyelss (Jan 20, 2011)

Any chance I can take some of those fry off your hands once they grow up a little? JD's have been on my wish list for a while...... :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

Let me know if you get the EBJDs fry to survive with the deencapsulated brine shrimp. Everything I've read said you need live BBS so I'm curious to see if they make it.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

jason_nj said:


> Let me know if you get the EBJDs fry to survive with the deencapsulated brine shrimp. Everything I've read said you need live BBS so I'm curious to see if they make it.


Honestly don't see why decapsulated won't work.


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## Leviathan64 (Sep 23, 2007)

TheFishGuy said:


> jason_nj said:
> 
> 
> > Let me know if you get the EBJDs fry to survive with the deencapsulated brine shrimp. Everything I've read said you need live BBS so I'm curious to see if they make it.
> ...


You know what I used as you got it for me.


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

TheFishGuy said:


> jason_nj said:
> 
> 
> > Let me know if you get the EBJDs fry to survive with the deencapsulated brine shrimp. Everything I've read said you need live BBS so I'm curious to see if they make it.
> ...


Me either but I read most of the EBJDs forums and no other fry foods have worked except live bbs. I don't remember reading if anyone ever tried decapsulated bbs.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

We'll see soon enough... The wrigglers will be free swimmers soon...


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

TheFishGuy said:


> We'll see soon enough... The wrigglers will be free swimmers soon...


Can't wait to see some pics opcorn:

:fish:


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## mr limpet (Oct 16, 2007)

Hey TFG how are the fry doing?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Fry are doing ok, I just got home this afternoon. THere was a small die off but I will be home for the next two weeks straight to be able to perform water changes and clean it up.


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## cichlid_kid96 (Nov 22, 2010)

Sweeeeeeet!!!!!!!


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## mr limpet (Oct 16, 2007)

Good for you TFG.Hope the fry do well.


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## Leviathan64 (Sep 23, 2007)

2 weeks! That fish room better be spotless. How am I suppose get what I want out of there if your home? My plan was going perfectly. You would have never noticed a fish a week missing. 

On topic: With that camera you may be able to see the difference sooner.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Eh, I'm trying to get things cleaned up right now... not going to well though...


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

I keep seeing people write that the ratio in BGJDxBGJD spawns is 25%EB, 25% BGJD, and 50% regular. The last two are wrong, it is 50% BGJD and 25% regular. In addition to this, your practical results will be a much smaller percentage of EB as those fry are naturally weak, like an albino or even a melanic form, due to the abnormal enzyme production. They usually make up a larger percentage of the early losses.

Punnet square(as best as I can do it here) with B as electric blue gene and b as normal:

_________B_____b

____B____BB____Bb

____b____Bb____bb

BB is an Electric Blue, Bb is a Blue gene Dempsey, and bb is a normal dempsey. As you can see, the ratio is 1:2:1, or 25% EB, 50% BG, and only 25% normal.


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

I still might be interested in nabbing some of the castoffs before they become oscar food. 8)

What do you suppose the odds of are growing up a number of them and getting a pair of BGJDxBGJD? Would it be 66% the male is BG times 66% the female is BG equals 44.4% chance both are blue gene in a pair?

I wonder how many pairs I would need to keep to get a reasonable chance of getting BGJDxBGJD? I think its...

1 pair - 44.4% chance of getting BGJDxBGJD
2 pairs - 69.1% chance of at least one pair being BGJDxBGJD
3 pairs - 82.9% chance of at least one pair being BGJDxBGJD not bad here...
4 pairs - 90.5% chance of at least 1 pair being BGJDxBGJD starting to see diminishing returns here.

Hmmm, now suppose I can build and set up a rack of 3 or 4 40brs, 1 pair for each tank. Get some fry from each pair, hopefully 1 pair will end up being BGxBG. Sell off the others. Then growout some electric blue fry. Then, split up the BGJDxBGJD pair and try to re-establish 3 new pairs - 1 EBxBG, 1 BGxEB, and 1 EBxEB which won't reproduce but will be cool to look at. If I have 4 tanks, the 4th could be a fry tank 8)

:fish: :fish: | :fish: :fish: 
----------------------------------------------------- 
:fish: :fish: | :fish: :fish:

Possible?

Actually, the biggest challenge will be getting permission from the wife :lol: :roll:


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

*Rhinox*

Instead of going through all that hassle why not just get a pair of blue gene jack dempseys?

Anthing from this spawn that is not electric blue will indeed finds it's self as a feeder. Sorry man...


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

TheFishGuy said:


> *Rhinox*
> 
> Instead of going through all that hassle why not just get a pair of blue gene jack dempseys?
> 
> Anthing from this spawn that is not electric blue will indeed finds it's self as a feeder. Sorry man...


yeah your right anyways more just a day dream now than an actual plan. I've got enough to handle with all my tanks dedicated to mbuna to start out with something so different. When I do it, I'll do it right with a big enough tank for a JD pair like a 75g, or actually I want to try an oscar again someday so maybe an EBJD+Oscar setup in a 125 or bigger.

Just curious though why you don't want to get rid of any of the fry whether the plains or the EBJDs. If its a matter of not wanting to just give them away of course I could pay you for them if I was serious about getting some. Or is this just your way of telling me you don't want me to have any of your fish


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Ha ha, no no no... I'm more than willing to sell the electric blues from this spawn if I'm able to raise any. But because the rest of the spawn will be undetermined weather they are blue gene or not I cannot justify selling them or giving them away....


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## cichlid_kid96 (Nov 22, 2010)

hey tfg any updates on the ebjd's


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I'm going to have a friend over this evening to help me determine who is who... Very little fatalities though so I'm optomistic I'll have quite a few electrics....


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

Here is a picture of my EBJD fry. They are pretty easy to differentiate at about 3-4 weeks. The BGJD are darker and have fully defined stripes on their bodies and the EBJDs tend to have half stripes.


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## wlyons9856 (Sep 16, 2010)

Okay so there are regular JD's, BGJD's & EBJD's?
I only knew of JDs and EBJD's... What is the blue gene?


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

Blue Gene means a JD that looks like a regular JD but carries the gene the makes electric blues.

No one has ever been able to breed EBJD x EBJD because of their weak genetics, its a lethal combination. So to get EBJD, you have to breed 2 JD that carry the blue gene or an EBJD x BGJD.


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## wlyons9856 (Sep 16, 2010)

So one would get a BGJD by breeding a regular JD and an EBJD? 
Can you tell if it carries the blue gene?


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi *wlyons9856*,

You are correct. Breeding a EBJD with a regular JD will result in all the fry being heterozygous for blue coloration (i.e. "BGJD").

There is no way to tell a regular JD from a BGJD based on appeareance, so you must keep them separated and properly labeled after breeding.

Thanks,
Matt


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

wlyons9856 said:


> So one would get a BGJD by breeding a regular JD and an EBJD?
> Can you tell if it carries the blue gene?


Yes that is how you would get a BGJD. Breed a regular with an EBJD and 100% of the fry will carry the blue gene. Unfortunately there's no way to tell, you can't tell the difference from a regular JD and a BGJD.


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## Leviathan64 (Sep 23, 2007)

So what did we learn? We have determined the approximate number of fry. We have determined that both of us should wear glasses. We have determined that after looking @ these fry that you need another week or they need to sit still. We have determined that I can not come to your house and leave without a fish.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

We learned a lot Leviathan... Like how you're not able to come over without bringing me a fish... or atleast talking about bringing me one LOL

I'm pretty confident that if I sat in front of the tank and methodicly attempted to pick out the electric blues that I would probably pick all of them but two.

That being said. The ones that will get netted out will be the blue gene or commons.

I'm in no rush though, they seem to be sharing the food just fine so I'll let them go a couple of more weeks... Then take another look...


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Update:


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## jason_nj (Feb 24, 2010)

Sweet, once they get to a certain size they stand out like a sore thumb. Only 30 sounds pretty low, did you have a die off?


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