# 75G Cockatoo stocking list



## Zythum (Sep 3, 2009)

Hi,

I have a 75G reef that I am transferring to a 90G tank in another room. I would like to try my first freshwater tank with that 75G (48x18x20). I would like the following characteristics:
- Low cost (no >100$ fish)
- Low maintenance (no discus with big water change)
- Amazon theme
- Planted tank but no CO2

The tank currently has a 25G sump, I plan on adding a wet dry filter to it (cheap). I get about 6x hour turnover rate with my return pump (MAG 7). I will put 2-3 inches of ECO complete as the substrate and pieces of driftwood. I am planning water change of about 15% weekly.

For the plants I plan on low-medium light, I will install 2x48" T5-HO with good reflectors for a total of 108W. 
- amazon sword
- Radican sword
- Chainsword
- Any other amazon plants that can thrive on that kind of lighting and no added CO2?

So far, the fish I like the most for the colors are:
- Cockatoo dwarf cichlid (the red bar ones)
- Cardinal tetras

I understand that it is better to group 1 male with 2+ females. Could I put two males with their harems for a total of 6-8 Cockatoo?

Any other kind of nice looking Apistogramma or dwarf cichlid that I could mix instead of putting 2 Cockatoo males with their harems?

I would like to mix Rummynose, Xray pristella or black phantom tetra with the cardinals, to make like a 50/50 school, any that is better than the other?

Which scavengers could I add with the cockatoo, I readt that Cory is not the best idea because of potential spawning? Bushy nose Pleco? Otocinclus catfish?

Any other nice looking fish from the amazons that are compatible (the angels can eat the cardinal tetras?)?

Can you guys put a list of proposed fish population with the quantities, I only had reefs, I think I would understock a freshwater setup.

Thank you for your help.


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## LG0815 (Aug 1, 2007)

you could try java moss and java fern and attach it to the driftwood


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## LG0815 (Aug 1, 2007)

sorry to double post but i would add 20 peppered corys or some type of corys to the mix


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

As for plants: anubias and crypts do well low-light. I'm not sure about the swords, though. Consider using Excel as an additional carbon source. Also, I strongly recommend Eco-complete planted substrate (or something similar) over sand or regular gravel. This will help keep the plants healthy and the algae at bay . . .

I have all of the tetras you mention except for the cardinals. I like them all and they look pretty together.

I love my apistos (I have agassizi in one tank and borelli in the other.) I actually prefer the borelli, as they have an interesting shape and interesting color. The agassis doesn't stand out much from my tetras IMHO.

I have not had trouble with large angels living with either tetras or apistos. I do have cories in both tanks with apistos with no trouble. I can't imagine a tank without cories!

I'm a big, big fan of albino long-finned BNs. You can often buy them much cheaper through this forum's trading post. (I paid close to $100 for mine.)

Be sure you have driftwood in your tank.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I tried to make an Apisto Cockatoo colony tank in a 4' 55 gal... the tank was a former terrarium which had two 12" x 12" shelves, tons of driftwood, moderately planted, multiple coconut caves, a few rock caves... I did everything I could to make it work...

In the end I had one very happy male Apisto and over a dozen females...

I tried the same approach on a 6' 125 gal tank... I ended up with two males and well over a dozen females... but then those two males spawned and allowed their sons to grow up and remain as subdominant males in the tank. It was an amazing and beautiful set up, but took over a year to balance into that...

I have heard/read that keeping two different species of Apistos in the same tank is much more likely to work. It is advised to pick species that look as different as possible. Borrellis and Cockatoos might work...

I've also kept Blue Rams with Apistos long term with no real problems... Bolivian Rams would also work and you could keep a small group of them in the 75 gal... It is not advisable to keep Blue Rams in groups...

Any pleco, cory or catfish is going to be a threat to breeding fish. They are scavengers by nature and eggs/fry are favorite foods for most/all scavengers. If the breeding fish can protect their eggs/fry, they will... but if the cories/catfish/plecois can eat the eggs/fry, they will...

But I find it nice to have a balance so that I do not have to feel pressured to care for and distribute offspring (or run the risk of becoming overstocked). If the desire to set up a fry tank ever arises, I can pull out a young brood and raise them, but if I don't do anything my cories/catfish/plecos are just better fed that week.

I've kept my Apistos and Rams with several species of Tetras long term with no problems.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hey guys,

I'll leave stocking ideas up to other members here, as I have a pathalogical dislike for Apistogramma cactuiodies.

2 or 3 inches of plant substrate sounds a bit much to me. Has anyone tried doing a layer of about 4/5th's of an inch of plant substrate covered by about 2/5th's of an inch of white sand? Plant the plants into the plant substrate, leaving the tops of the root bases exposed, then cover with sand. Of course, once you've planted the plants and placed all yor driftwood etc. you're stuck witht the setup, becuase if you try and change things around, you're going to mix up the two substrates.

*hollyfish2000* do you have a wild regional variant of A. agassizii or a line bred variant? I love the double red and red gold German line bred variants. I love my male, he's got heaps of attitude and thinks he's da man, but then "casually" swims in the other direction when my male curviceps looks in his direction. And the females, they're either trying to entice the male with thier little dance, or chasing tetras away, and some times trying to do both.


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## Zythum (Sep 3, 2009)

I saw the cookie cutter setup, that seems to answer my questions. I was looking at this setup in particular:

Peaceful SA Community 
â€¢ Gymnogeophagus gymnogenys - 1:3 
â€¢ Apistogramma cacatuoides - 1:3 
â€¢ Laetacara curviceps - 1 pair 
â€¢ Megalamphodus megalopterus "Black Phantom 
Tetra" - 10
â€¢ Peckoltia sp. L-333 "Yellow King Tiger Pleco" - 1 
â€¢ Chaestostoma milesi "Bulldog Pleco" - 1

Any comments on this population? I would setup the tank with roots like wood and many plants. The water would be a bit yellow tinted. Any suggestions, don't forget it is my first freshwater experience, but *** had a reef for over two years now.

Thnak you


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

My aggassizis are tank-raised as far as I know . . .

I still would do an albino BN over the two plecos in the cookie-cutter. My long-finned is so gorgeous and he's very outgoing for a pleco. He comes out in the morning and waits for his algae wafer. He actually takes it right from the end of a long tong. I am very fond of him! My second choice would be a gold nugget . ..


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hey *Zythum*,

Hmmmm, maybe it's time C-F updated some of thier cookie cutter setups.

I like those cichlids, just not together. The gymnogeophagus need a cool down, or winter period, of about 3 months. The other two cichlid species would be able to handle this winter period.

OK you like A. cacatuoides. I'll get over it. 

I like L. curviceps. I certainly think a pair would be a good mix with 4 apistogramma. However now I'm struggling to come up with a third cichlid to add to the two dwarves. The problem is that both dwarf cichlid species are substrate dwellers, and I would not want to add a third substrate dwelling cichlid as you do not want run into territorial problems. Which leaves a small school of Angels and Mesonauta festivus. Or a single Severum.

I certainly think you could go a lot more tetras. I'd be looking at atleast 2 schools of 20+ tetras. With any medium to larger cichlids in a tank you want higher bodied tetras, such as black or red phantom tetras, diamond tetras, lemon tetras, pristella tetras or bleeding heart tetras. Any torpedo shaped tetras may become food for cichlids larger than dwarves.

Peckoltia species of plecos make for good scavangers. They are omnivorous, with a preference towards meaty foods. I would look to include atleast one feeding a week of a food similar to Hikari's frozen krill. The more common species are King Tiger, Queen Arabesque, and Leopard Frog peckoltias. I luuuuuv gold nugget plecos. I do agree with *hollyfish2000* that bn's are practically must haves in most SA cichlid tanks. They are good algea eaters. Another good catfish to checkout are Royal whiptail catfish. For me these guys are the best alround catfish. They eat algea, are good tank cleaners, and don't produce anywhere near the waste that regular plecos do.

Another note on your original post. Unless you have a minimally stocked tank, I would be looking to do atleast one 25 gallon substrate vac and water change per week. Quite simply cichlids and plecos produce a lot of waste. A lot of the guys here use pythons to do large water changes with minimal effort.


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## apistomaster (Jun 22, 2006)

Zythum said:


> I saw the cookie cutter setup, that seems to answer my questions. I was looking at this setup in particular:
> 
> Peaceful SA Community
> â€¢ Gymnogeophagus gymnogenys - 1:3
> ...


I have a suggestion or two and some debunking to do.
Let's start with your Plecos. Not all plecos are created equal
I breed Hypancistrus sp L333. They are not a Peckoltia sp. Their export from Brazil has been banned for some time and there are only a few breeders. I happen to be one of them.
L333 and the other species I am raising in numbers, the beautiful Peckoltia sp L134 aka Leopard Frog Plecos are excellent additions. They do not eat algae. They need high protein, meat and fish based sinking food pellets are best. Both may be kept together for variety and they may be used in place of Corydoras. One of these Plecos will do the job of 3-4 Corydoras but are much more attractively colored.

The Chaetostoma aren't a typical pleco either. They come from fast mountain streams and are not comfortable in water over 75*F. They are also not especially great algae eaters, They eat a little but they are also aquatic insect larvae predators. Their big sucker mouth is an aid to hang on to the rocky bottoms of their fast flowing streams. Best drop the Chaetostoma off your list.

Nothing beats the Common Bushy nose as your primary algae Eater. Only one or two will keep tanks up to 125 gals pretty clean and they are cheap. L134 and L333 are expensive species.
Another species that is spectacular and despite being primarily another aquatic insect larvae predator they do a good job cleaning algae off plant leaves better than Bushy Noses and also eat the algae off the glass. I happen to breed those, too and an article I recently wrote at the request of www.planetcatfish.com will be appearing soon.

You will be very glad you chose to use a wet/dry filter. I would caution you to use nylon fly screen around the overflow inlet to prevent losing small fish down the drain. I use very large wet/dry filter plus an Eheim Classic #2217 on my two large show tanks. I keep wild Discus inthem until they pair off but wet/dry filters plus routine water changes are great for maintaining high DO levels. Sounds like you are a reefer and should know what DO means.

I am "apistomaster" and am supposed to know something about them. I have raised 1000's of A. cacatuoides but I do not care for them much personally. I would try one of the stocky body species like A. hongsloi or A. macmasteri and a slender body species like A. agassizi but Apistogramma trifasciata are hard to beat for their combination of beauty, graceful shape, they share a similar shaped dorsal fin the A. cacatuoides have, they are very hardy and groups don't kill each other off. 
Checkerboard Dwarf Cichlids are imported and sold at low prices and are beautiful once grown out. They sparkle with silver blues and males develope lyretails with long extensions. Very different from Apistogramma.
They are less bottom oriented than Apistogramma and spend more time mid water. They are bottom cave spawners. They spawn on an elevated smooth surface out in the open. Typically they spawn on a small broad leaf of a stemmed plant like Hygrophila polysperma(now illegal but sometimes still available) or Ludwigia hybrids. Sometimes they will spawn on the tip of an Amazon Sword plant leaf. Here are a few photos of some catfish I mentioned.
Leopard Frog Plecos, Peckoltia species L134 1-1/2" juveniles are banded and later that changes to a varied spots and stripes. No two are ever exactly the same.

They are actually a brighter yellow than in this photo.









Adult with different age classes of fry.









Royal "Farlowella", Royal Whiptails, Royal Twig Cat = Sturisoma aureum


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

> I like those cichlids, just not together. The gymnogeophagus need a cool down, or winter period, of about 3 months. The other two cichlid species would be able to handle this winter period.


Oops there's supposed to be a; would NOT be able to handle this winter period. in there.


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## apistomaster (Jun 22, 2006)

For some reason the edit button isn't showing after login.
I meant to say checkerboard dwarf Cichlids aren't cave spawners where is says they are,


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

Apistomaster -- great looking plecos!!


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## apistomaster (Jun 22, 2006)

hollyfish2000 said:


> Apistomaster -- great looking plecos!!


Hi Holly,

Thank you for the nice compliment.
I have a few Cichlids, too.
I have set up 2 pairs of wild S. haraldi Blue Discus and I think there is hope for one more pair.
Then I have 8 wild Peruvian Angels and 3 pairs spawn regularly.
I found a breeder who had wild Mesonauta acora, one of the "Festivums", these are not a common species in the hobby and I'm raising 10 F1's. I have enjoyed these and they still are almost a year away from maturing.
I have 4 Apistogramma species including a wild group which look like Apisogramma agassizi but not quite like any variety I have seen before. Also have a couple pairs of Dicrossus maculatus.

I do have the catfish bug pretty bad.
I raise 2 species of Dwarf Corydoras in permanent colonies. C. habrosus and C. hastatus. I have two spp of Aspidoras 12 Apisoidoras pauciradiatus which are small like C,hastatus. The only difference between Aspidoras and cordoras is Corys have 6 barbels and Aspidoras have 4.
I have a fe Aspidoras fuscoguttatus. I have had both spawn several times but even in soft acid water I'm not getting their eggs to hatch. I'm parting with my group 14 big breeder Cordoras sterbai. They produced 1000 fry when they were still beginners. Now they produce larger numbers of eggs and the eggs have better fertilization rates.

I have a good collection of suckermouth cats.
16 Parotocinclus. cf epplyei, full grown and only 1 inch. They are still new to the hobby, very cool and amazing algae eaters despite being so tiny. They look like a chubby version of my Sturisoma's fry.
I kept about 15 Surisoma aureum from one of an old spawn of 80. They spawn all the time including as I write this. They are great catfish.
I'm breeding the L134, L333 and L260 and growing out 10 Zebra Plecos for future breeders.
I have a trade in process , swapping some Leopard frogs L134 for those cool looking Red Lizard Whiptail Cats, L10a. They only get barely 4 inches long.


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## Zythum (Sep 3, 2009)

Thank you for your help, here is an update and some questions:

Ok I want the schools of tetras:
- 2-3 Schools of Cardinal, Rummynose, Glow Light for a total of 30-50 Tetras

Two plecos:
- A Bushy Nose for algae
- An exotic one like a Leopard Frog or a Gold Nugget

The dwarf cichlids (any of these very risky for slender body tetras?):
- 2 Hongsloi or Macmasteri (stocky body)
- 4-5 Agazassi or Trifasciata (slender body, not sure for for Trifasciata)

Would that work?

Another condition of my tank, it is visible from both sides, and one side is kitchen (movement), other side is computer room (not much action). Are these fish super shy and stressed as bad as Discus?

Darker substrate (eco complete) wouldn't be like the biotope, but you see the fish colors better and the fish would be less shy?

Is there a preferable introduction order, like on the reef?

I plan on a water change of 20% a week (20G), so I guess I should have a low population tank to minimize waste, is the planned population low for a 75G with a wet dry and a 25G sump?

With a lot of wood pieces and plants, there is a possibility for reproduction, *** never seen it in my reef?

I have a lot of questions, it's my first tank (freshwater)

Thank you


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## apistomaster (Jun 22, 2006)

The only fish I would not recommend is a Gold Nugget Pleco.
They are a difficult one to keep. Only about 10 to 15% survive one year in a community tank.
Those that do fail to grow normally. They are best kept in a group in a very large tank.
Supplying them with an inadequate diet both stunts those that survive longer and shortens their life considerably. They grow to 8 to 10 inches in the wild but the few specimens which last 5 years rarely reach more than 5 inches and die soon after.
This is one of those fish which probably should not be collected. You have reef experience; think about sponge eating Butterfly Fish and that is the sort of fish Gold Nuggets are. For every one who says their Gold Nugget seems to be doing well a 100 more died. The operant word being, "seems".

All the plecos are shy and Apistogramma also maintain a low profile.
A.trifasciata is slender species like A. agassizi but is a hardier species.

Never had any reef fish breed?
I have had Yellow Tail Blue Damsels, Mandarin Dragonettes and Flame Angels spawn. Never attempted to raise them.
That is a major undertaking and even public aquariums like the one in Hawaii and major reef fish breeders like SeaQuest have only raised a few out of thousands of larvae.


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## Zythum (Sep 3, 2009)

Now I am considering a discus tank with 2 or 4 rams, inputs are welcomed.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=200782


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