# Columnaris Like all others I need quick help



## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

So I added 8 new Acei on the 2/24 and it looks like three of them have Columnaris (one just around the mouth Bad and the other two loss of color and starting around the mouth not so bad). :x

First LFS gave me API Fungus Cure. That has Acriflavine in it. (I will return this)
After looking online for 5 hours I went to my other LFS and got the Maracyn and Maracyn 2 combo and some Melafix.

I will also be adding API salt of 1tblespn to 5 gal. 
OH TEMP. I have been at 80.0 on the dot. Some sites say drop the temp to 74-75 (API)while treating and other say take it up to 86-88

2/27/10 A=.0 Nrite= 0 Nrate=0 (live plants) pH=8.0 KH=8 GH=10 Phosphate=0

Do i need to do a water change before I add all of this stuff. One page said a 30% wc then add meds and salt ??????????
Any other thoughts??


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

Sorry for the repost


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

When I treated for columnaris, I followed the advice on this forum to lower the temp below 76. It worked for me, along with the maracyn/maracyn2 combo. Good luck, and if you decide to lower the temp, remember to take it SLOW.


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## jeaninel (Nov 1, 2009)

Yes, lower the temp gradually as bacteria mutliply quicker at higher temps and you want to discourage that. I've used Furan 2 to treat columnaris successfully but the Maracyn/Maracyn 2 combo should be good also. Be sure to monitor your water parameters as the meds may harm your bio filter.


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

I did a 30% water change and added Salt and Melafix and lowered the Temp to 76.


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm torn between the Acriflavine or the Maracyn/Maracyn2. 
Maracyn/Maracyn2 will run $135 for 5 days 
Acriflavine will run only $33 for 6 days.
I have a 125gal tank with about $110 worth of fish. The boss lady is not thrilled about the combo of Maracyn costing more then the fish. 
Should we just try the Acriflavine and pray. 
Columnaris is not a fungus but a gram-neg bacteria. 
The API Fungus Cure box also says " Treats Common Bacterial infections that affects the mouth and other soft tissue that are Fungus-like.

API website "Effectively treats fungus (Saprolegnia spp. & Achlya spp.), mouth fungus (Cotton Mouth Disease), Body Slime & Eye cloud and Fin & Tail Rot infections. Quickly controls contagious fungus and secondary bacterial infections. Helps prevent the growth of fungus on fish eggs prior to hatching. For use in freshwater aquariums. Note: This medication will cause a slight discoloration of water which can be removed with activated carbon. "


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

Here are some photos. 
the Green is the Antibiotics NOT St. Patricks day.


The two real bad Acei

The worst one


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

I went with the Acriflavin. I think I will lose the worst one. So now I know what a quarantine tank is and will be getting one. Live and learn


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

Whould a UV filter stopped this?


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

First casulty was not the worst one..  this is going to be bad.


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## jeaninel (Nov 1, 2009)

Wow, that one does look bad. If he does pull through it may have a deformed mouth. Yeah, columnaris can be real nasty and a quick killer.

My tank was a nice neon blue this afternoon from the Clout I had to dose for a case of bloat. But it's since cleared up now.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Allen,

I answered your pm before seeing this post. Yes that does look like Columnaris. If you can add a water jet that may help the meds work. The water movement helps to prevent the bacteria from adherring to the skin.

In my Pm to you I suggest you consider salt baths using the directions in the Columnaris article n this site's library. Since you've gone with the Acriflavin--which is fine--you might consider upping the salt _just a bit _in the tank. Take it up to 2 tablespoons per five gallons. It's not going to work like a salt bath but it may help prevent the disease from spreading to your other fish. Dissolve the salt first and add it gradually over several hours time.

You might want to remove the obviously ill fish to a separate tank. Just to minimize the exposure to your healthy fish. Fit in a partial water change as soon as medication schedule allows.

We've all taken the chance on not quarantining--sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't. Your established fish have a good chance of beating this just by virtue of starting off healthy. New fish are almost always stressed and therefore more susceptible.

Robin


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

I wanted to repost my pm for everyone else.:

But let me just ask you: what symptoms are you seeing in your Acei? 
A) Cotton around the mouth and fins. 
Have any died? 
A) one last night and one this morning and we are putting one more down today due to the lack of a face. 
How long have you had these fish? 
A) 2/25 
And just as important: when did you see the first symptom and how have the symptoms progressed? 
A) 2/26 saw the cotton around the mouth on one and two others were breathing from the top of the tank 2/27 it was much worse and spreading over the body. 5 of the 7 have it and i can't find one of the acei anywhere. looked at photos and talked to LFS.

I thought about salt baths but I work on the ambulance for a 24-36 hour shift todayto Monday night. My wife is pulling the effected ones out today with the medicated water from the tank to a 5gal bucket with an air pump and stone. my labs and rusties look good and i have 1 acei that is not effected and all are eating.

I read about Columnaris in the LIbrary section I saw that he does not recommend antibiotics but due to the fact that I might not be able to get back to the fish for 24-36 hours my thought was more to protect the labs and rusties. It has spread so fast that we will try what we can with the acei but after i saw the worst one(photo above) with a whole in his jaw this morning the others are actively bleeding from the fins, hair like poop, I knew this was not going to have a good out come.

I have an air stone inside the main tank and the temp was holding at 76.1 this morning. I have an undergravel jet system so I have great water movement. 
I will keep you posted.


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

whould this make a good hospital /quarantine tank?

it is a tank filter light hood with stand
http://orlando.craigslist.org/fuo/1619529769.html


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## LSBoost (Jan 21, 2010)

That's a little expensive for a hospital tank and its only a 12L. I'm sure you can find a cheaper one.


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

should be 75 litres for 20 gallons


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Yes that would make a good quarantine/hospital tank. Just need a heater.

But you could also go with a ten gallon and get a small HOB filter for it. Ideally for a hospital tank you want a filter that has a refillable media section. That way you can instantly cycle the hospital filter by taking some of the media from the filter of your established tank and placing it in the hospital tank's filter. 
You can do this with the eclipse also but you'll have to find a way to secure the 'borrowed' media into the filter section. It's do -able--just not as easy.

Robin


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

I have a few inches of space below my filter and above my bio balls. I thought a 20 gall would give me enough room when used as a QT tank.


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

I did the 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. Do i need to increase this? Do I need to add more salt with my next does of antibio.

Active Ingredients:
3 mg of Victoria Green B and 30 mg of Acriflavine per packet.

Direction for Use:
For best results, remove activated carbon or filter cartridge from filter and continue aeration. For each 10 gallons of water empty one packet into aquarium. Repeat dose after 48 hours. Wait another 48 hours, then change 25% of the aquarium water and add fresh activated carbon or replace filter cartridge.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

On the salt: you should keep track of exactly how much salt per gallon you have in there, then when you do a water change you need to know how many gallons you remove. Then when you replace the water you'll know exactly how much salt to add back in
So in other words if you had a 20 gallon tank with 1 tablespoon salt per five gallons (to give you a total of 4 tablespoons of salt) and you removed 5 gallons with a water change then you would replace 1 tablespoon of salt when you replaced the water.

Salt doesn't evaporate out of the tank--the only way to remove it is via water changes.

On the 20 gallon hospital tank: not sure what you were referring to but if you're talking about the *20 gallon eclipse:* the filter set up/cartridge is set up differently then on a regular HOB filter. See if you can find a picture of one online and you'll see what I mean. You can definitely 'seed/jumpstart' their filters--just not as easily as with a HOB.

robin


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

I was talking about my 125 gallon. I have 1 tblspn per 5 gal but have seen some info about 2 tblspn per 5 gal. was that for something else?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> I have 1 tblspn per 5 gal but have seen some info about 2 tblspn per 5 gal. was that for something else?


I wrote that for you--1T per five gallons is the standard amount but you can go heavier with salt. I suggested it since the situation was so bad and you were going with a med that I don't have experience with as far as Columnaris goes. It's probably going to be fine. Just wanted to give you as much ammunition as possible.

So how many fish are currently showing symptoms?

Robin

if you do go heavier with the salt keep a close eye on the fish. Just good practice whenever you're making changes/medicating--not just when adding salt. Most fish can handle a lot of salt but occasionally some will stress.


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

i think we are at 4 of the 8, two are dead and one MIA


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## dtress3 (Jan 27, 2007)

Regarding hospital/quarantine tanks:

In a jam, I have used large sterilite containers. My ten gallon hospital tank ended up being used by my son to house the fish he won at his school carnival :roll: So, when I was in desperate need, I used a large plastic container that I rinsed out. I threw in a heater and a small HOB from my main tank. Another way to have an instant cycled tank is to use a sponge filter. They are really good, and you can keep it tucked away in a corner of your main tank so it's always ready to go.

Hey, we cut corners where we can, right? We drop enough money on the meds.


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## dtress3 (Jan 27, 2007)

sorry, issues with the server


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

I have been running the light on a timer for about 7 hours a day. Should I turn off the light or leave it on the timer.


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

I started a Salt bath today WOW that is very weird.


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

3 of the 4 did very well with the salt bath for 5 min. the 4th was in less than 1 min and I'm sure went into respiratory arrest, He held on in the fresh water for about 30 min and then he was gone. So now I'm down to 3 of the 8 alive.


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## LSBoost (Jan 21, 2010)

Was the temp in the salt bath tank the same as the tank where the fish came from?


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

LSBoost Yes same temp.. I think they are just to far gone. I lost one more tonight and only have 2 left. One looks bad and the other worse. I will probable put them down by morning if no marked improvment.


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

Wow...sorry to hear gatorsaver. Columnaris can be so devastating. Sorry, sorry, sorry.


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## gatorsaver (Jan 3, 2010)

The last two were dead this morning. I gave it my best shot. I will get the QT tank cleaned out and ready for some new fish and try again. 
IMHO I think that that the Maracyn/Maracyn2 would have worked better, stonger and faster. So many people have a good outcome with this combo. I think that the Acriflavine did fine to protect my current fish but it did not seem to stop the spread of the columnaris on the Acei that had it. 
6 days from Beautiful to dead. I don't think I realised just how very fast and very nasty this stuff was.


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