# for flower horn, please help



## lekshmy biju (Jun 23, 2010)

KINDLY GIVE YOUR GUIDANCE ON THIS DISEASE AND TREATMENT

My flower horn is about 15 cm long; I brought him to my home just around 4 weeks before from where he was not getting proper care and was in a 11gallon tank;

He was not taking any food other than some frozen peas there and then; I was planning to give him more space to live in, but by then he has started showing symptoms two weeks before;

Developed a little transparent, cotton like growth inside his mouth which moves in and out while he breathes, and it is growing larger and he is keeping his mouth open now a days as he is unable to close it.

his head looked whitish and transparent-like even before these two weeks

His lips bulged out, more on one side of his mouth

when i found these symptoms, i used methyline blue and when it is put his whole body turn white like his head and as if he is feeling something irritating in/around his mouth, then slowly he regains the colour. I used it for 3 days

But seeing the disease signs still increasing i thought this would be mouth fungus and decided to give antibiotics, and got 2, one, for ulcer and internal bacteria and another antibiotics for mouth fungus from an aquarium. (both medications didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t listed the active ingredients in them, researched but couldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t find.) antibiotic for mouth fungus given for 3 days and the other for 2 days. (also put 1tbs salt /5 gallon). Before this course a 100% water change has been done.during this treatment her colour was good except his head, he used to come up and eat peas( only, not any other food or pellets, that too in small quantity, he used to spit more ) but it seems that it is also difficult for him to eat and moving around (but looked sad not much active).

By then, i noticed a white transparent layer (flat not like a round piece of cotton) coming out through the SIDES of his gills (around the SIDES of his gills)and it resembles the growth inside his mouth (texture), it moves in and out while he breath and the growth is becoming larger around his sides of the gills and also noticed small pin holes on either his face, above his mouth and below his eyes, with reddishness around the holes; and i lost all my confidence in the antibiotics I was giving him.

Then, while researching I came to read the article about COLUMNARIS DISEASE AND SALT DIP TREATMENT and suspected that she is affected by columnaris bacteria and stopped all other medications and started the salt dip treatment that afternoon itself.

Her response to the salt dip treatment (3%) is as follows;
(could start only in the afternoon)

Day 1 (23rd june), No: of dips-2

Dip 1-	Breathing found normal (no rapid gill movement), Remained in the solution more than 40 minutes, Seemed he will tolerate more, No discolouration
Dip 2	Gill movement was little bit rapid, also slowed down in 30minutes, 3 small pieces of peas where found in the bucket, i think it came from him, but not sure from where, After the dip, slight discolouration (whitish), A small (not too small)round white patch on his chin; that is under his lower lip, The next day morning it seems it wasnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t there

Day 2 (24th ), No: of dips-4	
Dip 1	Continued tolerating about 30 minutes, (seemed as she can more), After the dip, the white round patch came again but it was more bulged, Colour became more whitish, After an hour or so it became smaller
Dip 2	Continued tolerating about 30 minutes, Showed no signs of exhaustion, growth inside and around the gills are turning more bigger, Colour- still whitish or more whitish, the white patch again come slightly bulged
Dip 3	""*Seen the fins rot (sides)*"", Continued tolerating about 30 minutes or more, Showing no signs of exhaustion, when in the solution she was looking little bit gray, Colour- still whitish or more whitish, 
Dip 4	Continued tolerating about 30 minutes or more, Showing no signs of exhaustion, Colour- still whitish or more whitish, when in the solution looked gray and fins rotten

Other information; from day one, she has taken nothing, always hiding, remains at the bottom,

Can you kindly tell whether this is columnaris or not, or any other infection (fins rot whether i need to use antibiotics for her?

I have 2 antibiotics with me currently, (anything else good for her shall be purchased)
1.	Doxycycline Hydrochloride 
2.	Oxy tetracycline

Can you KINDLY advice me to what to do next for her, (she is not eating anything, also looking stunned)
Please help, 
May god bless
(also some light yellowish froth has began accumulate inside the tank,(big water changes are done after each dip, thanks)


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## twohuskies (Mar 1, 2008)

As I posted on your other thread, it sounds like columnaris. I'm not sure either of the meds you have will work because I've only used the Maracyn/Maracyn 2 combination. From the meds you have listed, I'd probably try the oxytetracycline. Definitely reduce the temperature in your tank gradually, as columnaris thrives in heat. I would also stop offering food for a few days.

Do a large WC to remove the salt in your tank, and start the meds ASAP. Do a small WC (like 20%) every day before dosing more meds. Make sure you have adequate oxygenation in the tank as well.

HTH, and good luck!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Well I've never seen/heard/read of a fish showing the symptoms you describe hanging on for as long as this fish has! Clearly you are doing something right, congratulations! Lucky fish!

It's possible that your fish is suffering from more than one thing. I'm not sure it's just Columnaris because Columnaris usually kills within a week or two at best. Most cases we see here it's 24 hours or less.

Chilodonella and Costia are two possibilities here. Both are caused by a protozoan parasite. One treatment for both of these parasites is *salt dips*. What kind of salt did you use? It needs to be sodium chloride and it needs to be completely dissolved. Where your fish tolerated a 3% solution for over 40 minutes I wonder if it was the right kind of salt? Usually fish need to build up to that level of salt and they will show some kind of stress from the salt although it's usually temporary.

*Other treatments for these parasites include meds that contain malachite and formalin, potassium permanganate and copper. *

I can't say for certain what your fish is ailing from. To know for sure we/you would have to look at samples of the fish's skin, mucous under a microscope. So many fish ailments share the same symptoms, and then quite often the fish is so weak from the first ailment that it succombs to something else. So what we end up doing is treating for what it most likely is and then if that doesn't work we try something else. You've treated for bacterial causes without success so let's try treating for parasites. 
Here's what I think you should do:
>Do an internet search for Chilodonella and Costia to help determine if either of these parasites is what you're seeing on your fish. 
>Do daily or even twice daily water changes of 40% using a good quality dechlorinator-(of course you'll have to work around any medication you're using)
>Add salt , (sodium chloride) at the rate of 1Tablespoon per five gallons to the water. Dissolve it first and add it gradually. Re-add the salt after any water changes. This small amount of salt will help keep bacteria from adhering to the fish's skin. 
>Increase water movement in the tank--again this will help prevent bacteria from adhering to the fish's skin. 
>For medication: look for a med that contains malachite, formalin, potassium permanganate or copper. Or a general anti-parasite med found at the fish store--I don't know what's available to you in India.

Let me know how it goes.

Robin


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## lekshmy biju (Jun 23, 2010)

sorry as i didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t respond anything about her thereafter. (because of some personal problems and illness), finding her fins rotten away on the sides, i decided to use antibiotics and treated her with oxytetracycline 500 mg for 4 days, and with godÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s grace she started to show improvement and is doing well now.*thanks a lot* for your patience, guidance and advice.

(but the white transparent like colour is still on her head, but better than before,(i think its Ã¢â‚¬ËœheÃ¢â‚¬â„¢, because it seems her hump is growing)and eats only green peas and noodles these days. 
thanks a lot, god bless


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