# This is all bad :( Sick fish.



## ZoomyZoom (Feb 17, 2009)

Hey everyone,

I know basically nothing about Oscars, or even fish in general. Please don't flame me, I would really appreciate any help I can get. This might get long...

My husband has a small 30 gallon tank in his office and it holds a 3-4" Oscar, two 2" african cichlids (I don't know the variety, they are plain, no markings and one is bluish and one is pinkish), a 2.5" convict, a tiny catfish and a large pleco. I just noticed while cleaning the room yesterday that the tank is INCREDIBLY dirty, the water looks yellowy greenish. Upon further investigation I found a DEAD fish in the tank !!!! an oscar that had died awhile back. It was covered in water mold. I looked all of this up on the internet and I am pretty sure the surviving Oscar has hole-in-the-head, he has white pits along his forehead and under his mouth. He doesnt look like he's going to make it, but all of the other fish look fine. I had a heated discussion with my husband who admitted he doesn't have time for fish upkeep. I am devastated that he treated these fish like this. 

ANYWAYS, today I went to my local small pet store and asked, and the woman told me to do a complete overhaul on the tank, take everything out and clean it, and do a complete water change. Then add water conditioner and this Melafix antibacterial fish remedy. Should arrest the hith and prevent ick, she said. She also informed me that this is WAY too many fish for this tank size, but what can I do? So I did this, and I added the fish back right away without being able to allow the tank to cycle, I had no other choice.

lONG STORY, but this is my dilemma: So far, all of the other fish seem fine. Good color, swimming vigorously and even eating well. The Oscar doesn't look so good. He keeps swimming up the the top and just sitting there. Won't eat. Probably succumbing to hith? Or stress from the water change?  And now, allofasudden, the other fish are all attacking him. The convict tore a chunk right off of the oscars face, and the africans are biting at his tail and ripping chunks off!!!!!!! What do I DO???? I don't have another tank to move him to or anything, and its terrifying and sad to watch this!!!!!!!!!!!

TIA to anyone who got through this long post, and has anything to say to help me out. I would really like to rectify this situation and be able to be a good fish owner to the surving fish.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

DO NOT TAKE EVERYTHING OUT AND CLEAN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's the WORST thing you can do .There's beneficial bacteria on all of that "stuff"!

Start by simply doing a 50% water change adding dechlor to the water when refilling.

You might want to get yourself a python to make this easier:
www.pythonproducts.com I beleive that's the web address....

Once you get yourself a gravel vacuum you'll need to get the gravel vacuumed while simultaneously removing 30% of the water or so. You'll need to get the poo and uneaten food out of the gravel...

You need to rehome the oscar or it will die. Simple as that. You should also post pictures of the africans so we can tell you what they are. Long story short... there's too many noncompatable fish in that tank. Some choices are going to have to be made as to what you want to keep.


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## ZoomyZoom (Feb 17, 2009)

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, its too late, I did the water change yesterday according to the advice of the woman in the pet store.  None of the fish have died though (yet).

I do have a gravel vacuum (my father in law just gave one to me) but we have an undergravel filter and a regular filter hanging off the side. Is the gravel vacuum even useful with an undergravel filter?

And these fish have all been living together for a long time and no one has gotten attacked before. The Oscar is by far the largest fish in the tank. It seems like since he got sick, the other fish have been hurting him. The africans and the convict basically leave eachother alone though (they do get territorial over a few hidey holes but they all seem to have their own places). Are these fish compatible together (the convict and the cichlids I mean)? On a side note, they don't seem to be bothering with the oscar at all today. He still isn't eating though, and he's just swimming around leisurely but he keeps bumping into everything like he's blind or something. I am worried that I just murdered him by doing a water change. Gahhhh! 

Good idea, I will post pictures of the africans later today for help with identification.

Thanks again!!


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## ZoomyZoom (Feb 17, 2009)

OK, so here are some pics of the fish (don't mind the incredibly poor quality, they were hard to catch, haha)

Here are the two africans, the brown looking one actually looks more pink in real life:









and here's a side view of the blue dude:










and here are left and right side profiles of the poor Oscar, and the white pits on his head:



















Thanks again for any help you could offer.


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

A healthy ocsar should grow about an inch a month for the first 8 inches. If he has been in this tank an long time and still only 3-4 inches, he is stunted and will continue the poor health. The Hole-in-the-head (white spots on head) are almost always due to poor water quality.

The 2 Africans look to be a Metriaclima callainos (blue one) and the other could be a less blue individual of the same species, or something else from the "zebra" family.

Unfortunately, a 30 gallon tank is way to small for any of the fish you listed, with the possible exception of the convict. A mated pair can be happy in a 30. The oscar alone needs a 55 gallon (better choice would be a 75g) just to himself.

Plecos are just poo factories.

How often does he do partial water changes?


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## ZoomyZoom (Feb 17, 2009)

I asked my husband and he said that he's only done a water change once, a 50% water change. The entire tank was given to him right before Christmas from my father in law, all used equipment, bc he upgraded to a larger aquarium.

The oscar has actually grown quite a bit, he got him when he was just tiny, like an inch, and that was at the same time he got the tank, in December. He's grown a lot since then. I feel terrible that I hadn't noticed the state of the tank, but it was in his office and I hardly ever go in there. 

Now the oscar has a long white weird thing hanging out of it's butt. ??? Its creeping me out. He's still swimming around but he keeps going up to the top and it looks like he's grabbing at the bubbles but he won't eat.


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## AltechLansing (Oct 4, 2008)

I disagree with doing a 50% water change. Your water parameters are most likely terrible. Doing more than a 40% water change may shock and kill your fish. Your fish are so use to the bad water that if you change the water too much you will just end up shocking them because the levels are going to fluctuate too much. In the future you should do gradual water changes of 25%. I would also clean a section of the gravel in the tank, but don't clean the whole thing because there is a lot of beneficial bacteria in there. Your oscar has been so stressed that it probably has a intestine problem, and it is putting out white waste. I would also suggest in upgrading your tank soon, because those oscars are going to outgrow it in a couple of more months.


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## ZoomyZoom (Feb 17, 2009)

Thank you, I will definitely not be going any huge water changes like that ever again. I did it on the advise of the pet store and I didn't do any research on my own beforehand...big mistake.

I don't have the chance to clean only a section of the gravel because I cleaned ALL of it yesterday when I did the total water change. I put it in a bucket and ran cool water over it and just stirred it up with my hands until it ran relatively clean. However there are two small logs and a bunch of rocks that were in the old tank but I didnt wash them and put them in this tank, so hopefully the beneficial bacteria off of those items can help out the tank??

I am wondering what I should do at this point. Again today, all of the other fish are eating and pooping fine, they all seem like they're going to pull through this drastic change just fine. The oscar is the only one that is messed up. I don't have anyone to give him to, or anywhere to put him to isolate him from the other fish.

Yesterday I did a treatment of Melafix for the oscars hith open sores, and to prevent ick from the stress. The bottle says to dose every day, should I do another dose right now? Is there anything else I should do?

thanks so much to everyone who has replied and given me advice. I really appreciate it.


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## AltechLansing (Oct 4, 2008)

While adding medications to tanks you must pull the carbon out, I assume that you did that. But as far as medicating every day goes. I tend to tell people to only medicate every other day than do a water change right before you medicate it again. If your oscar continues to have this problem over the next couple of days or weeks I would just pull it or put it in a quarantine tank and medicate it.


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## ZoomyZoom (Feb 17, 2009)

:-? I don't know what it means to pull the carbon out. I really don't know what I'm doing here.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

The carbon is going to be in the insert of your HOB (hang on back) filter. Simply pull the insert out, slit the (usually white) fabric with a razor, and dump the carbon out. Do not remove the fabric though, as you need all the beneficial bacteria you can save at this time.


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## ZoomyZoom (Feb 17, 2009)

The Oscar died.  It was shocking how fast he deteriorated.

Now, I have been reading this afternoon and I read that on day 3 of a new tank cycling, the ammonia levels can rise to dangerous levels and kill all of the fish immediately. So I am going to remove the carbon, medicate the tank again and then go buy a test kit so I can keep track of the tank stats.

What do I do to keep my ammonia at a safe level?

*Off to read more about it*


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

You have a couple of options on the ammonia. The best one being is go to a local fish store and ask them for some filter media out of one of their filters. If you can get some, keep it wet and put it in either your tank, or better yet, if you can, the filter of your tank. Second option is frequent (daily) partial water changes. On a 30 gallon tank, I would do maybe 10 gallons daily. That being said, do you have any kind of test kit? To test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates? I know this tank is at your husband's work, but you have done so much so far, you might want to purchase a test kit. API sells one at most boxstore (Petco, Petsmart) for about $30 that will test for everything. Knowing what the readings are will give us a better idea of which way to go next.

Now that the Oscar has passed, I don't know if you need to keep medicating the tank.

You are doing an awesome thing. Don't give up hope just yet.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Great advice thus far! Keep it up everyone!

sorry for the loss of the oscar


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## ZoomyZoom (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks everyone for continuing to come back to this thread to help! I was browsing around the website some more and realized that I clearly put this thread in the entirely wrong section. Sorry about that!

Anyways, this afternoon I got the test kit and I am more confused than I was before. I am pretty sure everything is wrong now!! I got one of those 5-in-1 test strips, and this is what I *think* the readings are:

GH - Looks like 0 (and the instructions say for cichlids this should be btwn 120 and 180??)
KH - This is absolutely 0 according to this test. Is that even possible? And I know that's very bad.
pH - 7.25 (this is too low, right?)
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - Looks like 0. 0 is white on this test and I am staring at it under a bunch of different lights trying to make out a color and I don't see anything. Pretty scientific, huh?

Also, just a reminder, I filled the tank and added the fish back on Monday at 4pm. This test was done Wednesday, 4pm. So a full two days later.

I hope I gave enough info here. I am trying to read through the instruction sheet but I have to be honest, it's pretty confusing. I need to know which things in this test are imperative and could kill the fish. Did any of these conditions kill the oscar? Note to self - these 5-in-1 tests are NOT easy to read!!

Thanks again everyone, I couldn't do this without your expertise!!


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

I think you might have better luck with the API test kit I mentioned. No strips. It's done in test tubes. Most here think the "strips" are very unreliable. With the API kit, you add 5ml of water to a test tube. Then based on what you are testing for, you add the appropriate solutions. And it is very, very ease to interpret. Like I said, it will cost about $30 in a store. You can find it cheaper online, but it seems time is of the essence.

As for what can kill the fish. If you have zero readings in ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, it's basically like you are starting the tank from scratch. That being said, ammonia and nitrite can both kill the fish. Ammonia turns into nitrite, and then nitrite into nitrate. Water changes remove the nitrate. One thing I might suggest is reading the article in the library here on cycling a tank.

I know Prime (a dechlorinator) makes the ammonia less toxic to fish. If you can get some I would, and use it when you change the water. Treat for the whole tank, not just the water you are replacing. If your readings are truly zero on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate there is no reason to do the daily water changes until ammonia appears.

And what probably killed the Oscar were the poor water conditions. I have one, by himself, in a 75 gallon tank, and I change 30% of the water twice a week.

So....

1. Get an API test kit if you can.
2. Test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrate.
3. Post results back here.


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## ZoomyZoom (Feb 17, 2009)

Well the pet store here only has strip tests. They had a whole bunch of different ones that test for different things, and then the 5-in-1's. So I bought those, and they were $25 for the lot....darn it. I wish I would have been able to find the better one. I could probably drive into the city to one of the big-box pet stores but not right away because it's over an hour away. 

The only thing I am totally sure about from the readings is the nitrite and nitrate. On the strip, the little pad for those are white, and if they stay white then your reading is 0 ml/L. They turn different shades of pink if there is nitrite/nitrate. Both pads stayed stark white. The strips didn't test for ammonia though, just GH, KH, pH, nitrite and nitrate.

:-? I really want to be able to test the tank but I don't see getting to a different pet store until at least Sunday. Maybe I can ask the local pet store if they have any connections to the pet stores in the city and see if they can get one in for me.

So about the GH and KH, according to the instruction sheet that came with the tests, these are ridiculously low. Do I need to worry about these? Or is the ammonia issue my main concern at this time?


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

You can call the pet store nearby and ask them if they'll test your water for you (some stores will). That will confirm whether your first results were accurate or not. You should still buy the API test kits, but this will buy you a bit of time.


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