# Pelvic fin egg spots



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Only found this in the old posts: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=193165

I'm growing out some M. estherae. They are around 2" or so. One of the fish has 3-4 small egg spots on each of it's pelvic fins. Looks pretty cool. I've seen a somewhat famous picture of some OB blueberry zebra sort with these, and the post above. I don't have an Ad Konings book to reference. Is this really that rare, as the post above suggests?

Thanks


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Bump???


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

Never seen that before. Post a picture of yours!


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I wish I had a camera that could take a quality picture. The fish has a brilliant blue/white tinge to its dorsal and tail fin. He(she) is sub dominant to another zebra, who has the blue/white finnage but not the pelvic egg spots. I've seen the colorful finnage in some pictures.

I can attempt a picture when I move them from the 40 breeder to a 180 in the coming weeks.


----------



## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

I have a a breeding group of Blue X Red F1 M. estherae. The male is obviously completely blue, but one of the "females" is orange with the same kind of fins you're describing. It's a brilliant whitish-blue, and quite stunning.

Very similar to this pic:










I also have 1 female that is not from the same source, just your average LFS Red Zebra, that has a few spots on her pelvic fins. The spots are almost red and hard to see unless you're looking for them, but they are definitely there. I would never have even noticed but your post prompted me to go looking. I don't have a good camera either... so the chances of getting good pics of the spots is about zero.


----------



## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> I can attempt a picture when I move them from the 40 breeder to a 180 in the coming weeks.


Looking forward to the picture and the build thread :wink:

It sounds like you've got a pretty interesting fish on your hands. I haven't ever seen any like the pictures in the other post, but they definitely look pretty awesome.

I'm guessing you are pretty confident concerning the purity of your fish? Reputable retailer, etc., etc.? Orange zebras are so often hybridized...


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Here's the 'Blueberry OB' I mentioned earlier. A couple egg spots on the pelvic fins.










Here's a M. estherae I found thru Google. Lots of pelvic egg spots. Lots of spots in general! The finnage has the bluish tinge that I'm referring to.












> I'm guessing you are pretty confident concerning the purity of your fish?


Very confident! I got them from Petsmart! Just kidding.... :lol: Most of the fish I have bought have been through site sponsors or local private breeders through the GCCA(Greater Chicagoland Cichlid Assoc). I guess it's never 100% though...


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Here's a sub par photo of my fish...


----------



## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Nice looking fish! Female? Would be nice to see if that trait can be passed on. Are your's of the BxR variety?

Here's a few fairly bad shots of a BxR I have.. I haven't vented him/her yet, but I'm thinking it might be a male due to the large amount of blue in it's fins.



















Much more attractive than your LFS variety!


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Female? Undetermined. Around 2". I hope so. I have 2 with that vibrant finnage. R x R. I know who you got your fish from. Is blue in the fins any indication of sex? I would guess probably not... how big is your beauty? I saw a pic of one of your males in a different thread. He appeared to have some blue bars. Does he always display those, or only when he's fired up?


----------



## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

From what I've read having a blue "tinge" in the dorsal can be a sign of a male. I had 4 of them, just your LFS variety, with 1 vented male, 1 vented female, and 2 unknowns that had the blue tinge. I returned the ones with the blue and immediately the female was holding.. kinda like I removed the competition. So.. no, it's really not a good way to tell the sex, but it seemed to do the job for me when trying to get my zebras to mate.

Here is a decent shot I got today of my male. He usually has the bars. Fairly dark when he's doing his mating shake, but otherwise like you see in the photo or a little lighter most of the time.


----------



## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Also, I'd say he's only partially done with his transformation. He used to be very dark all of the time, now he's a very nice blue all of the time, but I expect he'll turn a lighter shade of blue with less barring as he ages.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Wow, nice picture. Where is he in comparison to the size of this fish?










If close in size, that would be some impressive sub-dominate male looking like a female trickery...


----------



## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Yes, they are very close is length.. between 2.5 and 3", but the blue male has a bigger girth to him. I suppose now might be a good time to clarify something I've wondered about... can/do BxR females ever HAVE red males? I can't remember where I read/heard this.. but I think that's why I was thinking this might be a red BxR male... if such a thing even exists. If it doesn't, then I suppose that puts the question of her sex to rest.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I do not know. I am just a Padawan learner. Put a call into Dave. He can tell you. I remember the price list saying 'both red and blue males' though.


----------



## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Yeah.. I think that's what put me in that frame of thought. I think I might have to call him. Anyway, he's a great looking specimen, very lively and active. He's probably my favorite fish.


----------



## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Here's a M. estherae I found thru Google. Lots of pelvic egg spots. Lots of spots in general! The finnage has the bluish tinge that I'm referring to.


This is one unbelievably beautiful fish....I loved my red zebras but opted to rehome them and go with the zebra golds instead. Metriaclima in general are a stunning species with a lot of variety. Hope your fish turns out as incredible as this one Iggy


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Thanks Donna. I hope so too! I saw my little dude lip locking and going at it with the dominant fish on Friday night. He/she lost(if I'm keeping score), which is unfortunate. The dominant zebra has incredible colors, but does not have the pelvic egg spots. I will 'attempt' venting all of these fish in the transfer. While they are only around 2-2.25," I'm hoping to get an idea on some of these fish. Gotta start somewhere...



> Metriaclima in general are a stunning species with a lot of variety.


Agreed. What I don't get is how folks may 'skip' over a species because the females are 'drab.' They'd be amazed, I think, on the color, personality and chameleon type transformation that can happen right before your eyes. I know this does not apply to the red x red strain of M. Estherae, but something that I don't get, in a way. If everyone kept the monomorphic species, every tank would have Ps. cyaneorhabdos, L. caeruleus, demasoni, etc.

If I misspelled anything here, my bad...


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

> From what I've read having a blue "tinge" in the dorsal can be a sign of a male.


An article I probably read a dozen times last year. Some clarification, at least for the red x red...

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/met_estherae.php

an excerpt...


> Males usually grow to 5.5 inches /14 centimeters and females to 4.0 inches/10 centimeters. Juveniles of the "Red x Red" variants are hard to sex: they all have the same orange color. Sub-adult males, however, start to show a shade of light blue on the anal fin. At about 2.25 inches males will start to put on a light blue shade all over their body and fins, and thus become somewhat unworthy of their name. The females just put on a brighter orange color as they mature. Both males and females have "egg spots". Juveniles of the wild "type" "Blue x Red" are distinguishable right from being released by the mother.


----------



## Demigod (Mar 22, 2013)

Yeah.. I went back and read that article the other day. I'm still undecided though. I came home tonight and that fish, with the blue fins, looked to be holding. But, right before my eyes, it disappeared and started that circular dance with another female.. doing the male portion of the dance... which is not heard of I suppose. I guess I'll know for sure when it's holding or I get it out of the tank and vent it.


----------



## shelbynjakesdad (Mar 13, 2013)

My (confirmed) females do that circular dance with each other all the time. They always puff their mouth up like they are holding when the do it and as soon as they are done, they go back to normal. I'm guessing they are kind of sizing each other up and trying to look bigger. Maybe it's a dominance thing?


----------



## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

I was looking at my M. sp. zebra gold (Lions Cove) guys today and noticed that one of my females (holding currently) has pelvic fin egg spots...WOW...I'm totally surprised to see that on them. Not as beautiful as on that red zebra above but maybe these pelvic spots are more prevalent on the zebra species? Just a thought? Because she is holding getting a picture of her is not going to be easy but I will try tomorrow if I can.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

shelbynjakesdad said:


> My (confirmed) females do that circular dance with each other all the time. They always puff their mouth up like they are holding when the do it and as soon as they are done, they go back to normal. I'm guessing they are kind of sizing each other up and trying to look bigger. Maybe it's a dominance thing?


I have not been keeping cichlids for long, but I do know that the females definitely have their own pecking order and squabbles. I had a group of Cynotilapia girls who were always going at it, even lip locking while holding. My Labidochromis are just as fierce with each other. Cat fight!



cichlid-gal said:


> I was looking at my M. sp. zebra gold (Lions Cove) guys today and noticed that one of my females (holding currently) has pelvic fin egg spots...WOW...I'm totally surprised to see that on them. Not as beautiful as on that red zebra above but maybe these pelvic spots are more prevalent on the zebra species? Just a thought? Because she is holding getting a picture of her is not going to be easy but I will try tomorrow if I can.


Awesome! I had a difficult time initially determining that they were egg spots, and not some defect. Easier as the fish got larger. It would be much easier to spot on a dominant fish, as they're always strutting their stuff with fins fully extended. Good luck with the pic.


----------



## jcabage (May 29, 2012)

cichlid-gal said:


> I was looking at my M. sp. zebra gold (Lions Cove) guys today and noticed that one of my females (holding currently) has pelvic fin egg spots...WOW...I'm totally surprised to see that on them.


Oddly enough, I had a similar experience with our red zebra male. I have never noticed them before, but after taking a closer look, he does have quite a few eggs spots on his pelvic fins. He is still maturing a bit, so they we kind of hard to see, but he just became a lot cooler in my book.

I'll attempt to picture of what we've got as well


----------

