# Rusty in trouble.



## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

Out of the 7 Rusties I have in my 90 gallon tank I've been watching one of them with what appeared to be a sunken stomach. Now he's looking sickly and ragged. He's become skinny and his color is terrible although he's still active and eating well. The rest of them seem healthy and happy. Three of them are currently holding.

If I can get him into my hospital tank what should I treat him with?

The water parameters are 0, 0, 10-20 with a 50% WC every 7-10 days.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Ragged implies aggression. A separate tank with many small feedings might fix him right up.


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## smitty (May 7, 2004)

Have you noticed any fighting even from a distant in the tank. The fact that he is eating well tells me a may actually be feeling okay.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

Man, I honestly haven't noticed ANY fighting! Which really surprises me.
I had another Rusty that went down the same path. It had a sunken belly for quite some time and then started looking sickly but never lost it's appetite. I think it must have succumbed though because I can't seem to find it, not even a body.
I hate to loose this second one to the same thing.


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Well there are 2 possibilities

1. Nematodes
2. Bacterial infection

First try and treat the fish against both gram positive and gram negative bacteria. Dont know wich antibiotic is available to you. So look into that.

If the fish get better treat the entire tank.

If it still isnt getting better treat for internal nematodes. Use levamisole. If this fixes the problem treat the entire tank.

Good luck.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

I tried getting the little bugger out of the tank but didn't have any luck and I'm not too keen on removing 250 lbs of rock.
Would it hurt to treat the whole tank?

Thanks.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

Anyone?


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## euphr (Aug 9, 2015)

It does suck when you have to clear the tank in order to grab a fish.

Levamisole is very strong and will require you to cover the tank and make sure that you do some serious water changes before and after you dose the tank. The unfortunate thing is that it wigs out the fish and they get a bit anxious to put it mildly. I treated my 55 gallon and it took a week or so for them to go back to normal.

If you go down the route make sure you do your research as a very little is all that is needed and if you overdose you can cause issues and you need to watch your fish during the treatment. I think this is why Wort is suggesting you do a hospital tank instead of doing the entire tank. I will see if i can find the article i used for dosing as it has been a while.

Alex


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

Thanks Alex.
What about if I start with an antibiotic? I'm assuming that wouldn't be as dramatic to the fish as the Levamisole.
I wonder if I can pick up a good antibiotic at the local Pet Smart.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

euphr said:


> It does suck when you have to clear the tank in order to grab a fish.


Ya! A couple of my rocks are over 50 lbs! I had to stand on an 8 foot ladder and have my wife hold my belt loops as I lowered them into the tank so I wouldn't fall in!

LOL


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Yup thats why I said in quarantine  hehe. Malawi go mental and start biting eachother in the rock piles because their so terrified. It works like a charm though.

And also because antibiotic kills the filter.

That why its verry important to try it out on the sick fish. Before you go ahead and dose the tank. With metro or prazi I wouldnt worry. But antibiotics or levamisole require a little bit of caution 

Try making a fish trap. Its not hes in desperate need.

But for the main tank I would choose antibiotics over the levamisole any day for the first try.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

Ahhh, ok. Got it. That all makes sense. I didn't think about protecting the filter.

I'll dig out my home made fish trap and see if I can coach him in.

Let me ask you guys this; while trying to net this guy (and the last Rusty that I just lost - I found the body btw, well I found the SPINE) I've noticed the sick ones are very shy and the first ones to run from the net. IF they happened to be sub dominant males and are getting picked on could the stress from that cause sunken bellies?

I guess I still haven't determined if this is being caused by aggression or a bacteria infection. The problem always begins with a sunken belly and then develops into other visible issues.


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## euphr (Aug 9, 2015)

My understanding is that all fish have the parasites that cause them to get sunken bellies and to get bloat. Typically these conditions become worse when the fish becomes very stressed for a long period of time. I had a green terror that took me about 2 months to get him to eat or eat a single blood worm. He probably is one of the most peaceful GTs that you will see but he was very stressed by some of the other fish when he was smaller, I worked my tail off to nurse him back to health and he was at deaths door. He was in the hospital tank for about 4 to 5 months and was the first to move into the 180gallon and is now the 2nd biggest fish. As a result i watch to make sure the fish are eating regularly.

Right now i have a blue acara that i am trying to nurse back as well. He was very nervous and would hide alot while in the main tank and his stomach is a bit sunken. Right now i am treating him with Seachem Metroplex, using the bloat guide here. He will ignore pellet food, but will grab a blood worm or two immediately when they are in but then spit them out and ignore the blood worms. i am going to continue treating him with Metro for about a week and half more and if that doesn't help i may go down the levamisole, the clout path. levamisole freaks him out as he has had it before when i treated the 55 when i had the GT issue.

Is your Rusty eating?


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

Yes he's still eagerly eating but man, he's looking terrible.

It's the same thing that the other Rusty went thru that I lost last week.

I've never suspected an aggression problem because I've never seen either Rusty cowering or hiding up in a corner. They're always out swimming with the group.


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## euphr (Aug 9, 2015)

I would definitely pull him and treat him like Wort said. Doesn't sound like bloat as he is eating.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

I got him!

I can't believe it but I dropped my home made fish trap into the tank and I had the Rusty and a Yellow Lab within a couple of minutes. I guess that confirms he still has a heathy appetite.

So, now I've got him in my 10 gallon hospital tank. Does anyone know of a brand name antibiotic that I can pick up at the local Pet Smart today? If I can't find it there I'll need to order it online. 
I DO have some Melafix on hand. Would that do any good?

Thanks for the help guys.


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Good you got him! Now you can start 

No melafix. Thats not an antibiotic. That stuff doesnt fix disease.

I,m from europe. The only thing available to me antibiotic wise is nifurpirinol. I think other people are more fitted to tell you what stuff to get.

Also remember if their eating it not bloat.

Most people think all malawi get is bloat. Sure most of the time it is bloat. But if their eating it just isnt 

"Euphr" there is no need to treat with levamisole. It doesnt cure bloat. It only affects nematodes. You could add an antibiotic to go with the metro to get any infection cause by the flagellats. Thats about it.


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

Hm couldnt eddit.

I just wanted to add. Use the right medicine for the ailment.

Also some people seem to think praziquantel takes on intestinal nematodes. It doesnt. It only kills band worms in the gut. If you got discus fish I would say go ahead and try that first 

But treating mbuna for it is a long shot. Not impossible though


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

Thanks wortel.

I'm looking at some API products available locally. I'm assuming an "anti-bacterial medication" is not the same as a true antibiotic. Is that true?


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## wortel87 (Apr 15, 2014)

It should work internally.


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