# Need help identifying e-bay mystery fish



## Ramseydog14 (Dec 31, 2013)

I may also post this in the unidentified cichlid thread but wanted to get the thoughts of you guys that usually post here.
I have been looking for some Cyno Afra Yellow-Blaze to add to the 3 that I have (2/m and 1 fm)...hoping to get a few females and then separate them into 2 groups with good m/fm ratios. I've had no luck finding them locally,..so I noticed an e-bay add that said "Cynotilapia Afra Nkhata Bay fry" Qty. 5 - 1". The ad looked good (almost perfect seller rating) and the price was great with free shipping,..so I took a chance. The fish shipped and arrived healthy within 24hrs,..well boxed with heating pads in the box, nice double-bags, etc. The fish were small of course and light in color from shipping. I put them in the 30g that I set up for a holding tank (for a no longer holding Acei)..and they are doing great. Starting to regain color and eating like crazy. Very healthy acting little fry. The problem is..they don't necessarily look like Afra Yellow-Blaze,..or at least what I thought they would look like. I got my current ones at around 1.5" each,.but they don't really look like them. Here are a few pics of them,..the best I could get. The ad had pictures of the "parents",..which definitely look like Yellow-Blze adults,..but one of the pictures (an odd one I didn't see originally) showed a great looking fish..that looks to me like an adult male 'Hongi' (possibly SRT). So I'm not sure if these new fry are hybrids,..full Yellow-Blaze Afra,...Hongi,...or a combination of a few of each, or another fish entirely. Any help is much appreciated!


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Well I don't know what cyno Nkhata bay fry look like, but the vivid orange in the tail of the pictured fish seems off. I have some l. Hongi fry about 1/2" and they look very similar to your fish.

Is it possible for you to link us to the sales ad? You need to call the seller and find out what's up.


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

I raised at least 10 clutches of C. afra/zebroides (nkhata bay) fry and I never saw juveniles with such bright yellow/orange markings (especially on the tail fin like in the fish center of picture 1). That being said, it may be possible that the parents had very bright yellow/orange coloration and this is coming out in the offspring.

The large topmost fish in the first picture also looks like it has a more pointed snout than is typical of cynotilapia (labidochromis have pointier snouts than cynotilapia).

Do any of them (males esp) show very distinct barring? If they are pure cynotilapia, I'd expect 1 or more males to at least flash some very solid bars.
If it would help - I have some mediocre quality pictures of some of my former nkhata bay 3-4 month old juvies.


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

I'll add that some of the pictured fish do look like pure C. afra, but some of them seem off.


----------



## adevoid1 (Sep 16, 2013)

That looks like the Metriaclima greshakei (ice blue) i just got


----------



## Ramseydog14 (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks for the replies..and I know at the size of these fish it is hard to tell without any more info than I'm able to give.
I did send a few questions to the seller to try to find out more about these guys,..but I'm not sure that I'm not more confused than before. Here is the response (below) I received back and a link (might work) to the actual add I bought from.
I do have confidence that they are healthy etc.,..but with the confusion on the names vs common names and name changes with this species, I'm not really surprised. At least they weren't very expensive and it will be cool to raise them and see what they turn out to be!

_I don't know about another name for these, I've never heard them called anything else, but they're so rare I've hardly ever seen them for sale. They are all Nkhata Bay, but I have two different breeding pairs kept in the same tank, and oddly enough, one male and one female are lighter in color, while the other male and female are darker . Since all four interbreed, chances are you have a good genetic mix in those fish. Usually a larger fish means it's a male, but I had two batches a couple weeks apart, and kept them all in the same tank, so there's a small chance it will be a female. I would guess he's a male from his color, but as to the other four, it will be impossible to tell for a while. I hope you get a good mix_!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... TQ:US:1123


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I gotta say that first photo from the ad looks just like Labidochromis- the body shape and especially the head and face. But the color of the finnage is very yellow but may just be the pic/lighting. The last picture looks more like a Cynotilapia.

If you indeed get fish from 2 batches of fry then you may have 2 species or possibly hybrids.


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

Some of the pictures in that ebay ad don't look pure to me either.


----------



## Ramseydog14 (Dec 31, 2013)

I wanted to bump this thread with a couple of updated pics of the biggest (male) of these 5 fish I bought off of e-bay a few weeks ago (see story above). They were sold as "Cynotilapia - Nkhata Bay",..but I am still not sure exactly what they are..or if they are a hybrid of some kind. I was thinking possibly Hongi?.. Do these pictures give anyone any ideas of what these guys are? They are really cool looking fish..


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

These could very well be hybrids. I'm guessing that they were sold as afra nkhata bay because the breeder stripped them (or at least observed the afra female holding) from the mouth of an afra female.

I'm looking at google image pages from each species - C. afra (nkhata) and Lab. hongi
One clear difference that I see is that all (dominant) C. afra males have a dark colored chin, jaw, and lower face (see my avatar), whereas Lab hongi have light coloration in this region. Your fish appear to lack this dark coloration, although it is possible that this could be due to immaturity .

I also see differences in the angle at which the forehead slopes into the mouth region (labidochromis have a pointier snout than cynotilapia).
If you can get a close-up picture of the jaw and teeth, this would be good for identification of species as cynotilapia have pretty distinct dental work.


----------



## Ramseydog14 (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks for the reply as always Kanorin..and I agree with your thoughts. To me they look most like the pictures of juvenile Hongi I've seen..or even Pearlmutt,..though I don't know much about those at all,..but these may very well be hybrids. Still, interesting fish so I will keep raising them and see what they turn out to be. I will post a picture occasionally as they get older, for feedback


----------



## promoe (Apr 28, 2009)

Very odd..they look like hongi/perlmutt crosses. LOL kinda cool actually I am surprised somebody in Thailand hasn't thought of this !


----------



## Ramseydog14 (Dec 31, 2013)

I thought I would bump this thread again with a couple of new pictures of these fish. The one largest male, is still really light compared to the others but he is awesome looking (imo)..and the others are really starting to color up. I added a 1m/4fm group of small Saulosi in with them yesterday and so far so good. Any more thoughts on what these might be based on these pics (see above for backstory of how I bought them)? They were advertised as Cyno Afra Nkhata Bay,..but who knows,..alot of the pictures of Hongi that I have looked at look a whole lot like them also. They of course may be hybrids,..but honestly of all the Mbuna I have..Demasoni, Cynos, Yellow-Labs, Acei, Red Zebra, Saulosi,..these guys are as colorful and good looking as any and have great temperaments. I won't be saving fry, so that's not an issue,..just wish I knew exactly what they are..or at least what combination. Thanks!


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

That first picture definitely is not pure cyno and definitely is not pure hongi - it looks like a perfect mix of the two.

I agree that it is a gorgeous fish! Don't save the fry and enjoy them!


----------



## Ramseydog14 (Dec 31, 2013)

Kanorin said:


> That first picture definitely is not pure cyno and definitely is not pure hongi - it looks like a perfect mix of the two.
> 
> I agree that it is a gorgeous fish! Don't save the fry and enjoy them!


Hey thanks,..I always appreciate your responses Kanorin! Funny, I sent a couple of pictures (not these) to Dave Shumacher (of DRAF)..and he said almost exactly the same thing  Oddly the one biggest one in the first pic looks totally different, much lighter than the other 4 which all look very similar,..and they all are showing incredible color and now barring for 1"-1.5".

Also,..don't know if you can really see her in the 2nd pic but 1 of the Saulosi I added in yesterday is literally less than .5" long..I mean tiny. So far so good, no one is bothering her and she is very active and eating like crazy. Will this be a problem?..have you had Mbuna this small in with larger ones. Probably no big deal but I was worried she might accidentally get inhaled.


----------

