# Acrylic tank busted. Time to build a new River Tank.



## chefkeith

Yep. My 90g river tank is done after about 3 years in use. It never leaked, but I noticed some crazing in one of the corners, then I looked closer and the whole side gave away from the perimeter bracing. The cause of the failure was probably warpage. I used 1/4" continuos cast acrylic instead of cell cast acrylic to build this tank because that was all I could get my hands on at the time. I guess the key to building acrylic tanks is to use CELL CAST like Featherfinfans article suggests.










Anyways, this is good news because I've been itching to build a new tank for awhile now. This time I'll try not to skimp on materials.

Here's my plan right now for the new tank-
It will be made out acrylic, foam sheets, and plywood. Also, instead of doing a foam/cement background, I'm going to build a foam/cement midground. This midground will be a massive island. Having an island will act as a partition so that the water can have true unilateral flow. To get this river type flow, I'll point all the filter outlets in a clockwise direction.

Here' my blueprint  









I'll start a cut-list and estimate the costs now. Hopefully it will be within my budget so I can start soon. I could just repair the old tank for real cheap, but that wouldn't be nearly as fun.


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## mr.dark-saint

Are you going to re-cement the separation? 1/4" for a 90 gallon is rather thin.


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## chefkeith

I'm not sure yet. I'll probably try. I could add more bracing for reinforcement. The tank is only 12" high though. There was 2 inches of sand in the bottom and was filled about 1.5 inches from the top. Actually volume was more like 70 gallons.

I think another factor in what busted this tank is that the the canopy hood was not laying flat on the tank. It was accidentally sitting on a filter pipe. This created a pressure point on the perimeter bracing. A water-bridge was also sitting on the bracing. If it was a case of water pressure being to great for the acrylic, then the seams would of busted on the bottom, not the top. The bottom seams look fine.

I doubt I'll use this tank full-time anymore. I dont have much use for it if I build my dream tank. I might fix it, then sell it on ebay. It would make a real nice reptile tank.

The tank is 72" long, 24" wide, and 12" high.


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## mikmaze

it'll make the perfect sump for that monster river tank, don't get rid of it, big honkin mechanical surface area, and lots of room for bio and even a refugium section.


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## chefkeith

Thanks Mikmaze. That is a great idea to use it as a sump/refugium. I'll just fix it real good so that it won't bust again. I'd have to make the stand / tank wider so that this old tank will fit underneath though. So now the main tank is getting bigger. It's now 233g plus 90g from the sump/refugium = 323 total gallons. I'm liking this idea alot. Thanks again.


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## mikmaze

you are quite welcome, if ya need any more help spending your money, I'm here for ya


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## illy-d

Will the tank be viewable from both sides? I so the Island thing is pretty cool - but if not I would go with the background myself... You could still create a river effect if you had the inlets at one end and the returns at another...


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## chefkeith

I'd like to get some more idea's to build the Island. 
Most importantly, the island will be mostly hollow with caves for the my clown loaches. I'll probably build it like a sandwich. I'll start with a sheet of styrofoam, then I'll use twisty ballons as a mold for the caves in the middle, then spray some Great Stuff foam all around the ballons, then use another sheet of styrofoam to top it off. When the foam spray hardens, I'll pop the ballons and start carving my underwater mountain. Then I'd get my sawzall and cut the thing into 4 parts so I can get the thing inside the tank.
I was thinking I'd use cement or drylok to cover the thing. I've got alot of quikrete cement color's. Can I add these colors to Drylok? Can I add sand to Drylok?
I'd like to use magnets to hold the island down underwater to keep it from floating. I'll have to imbed the magnets into the bottom of the island somehow. Maybe some real thin acrylic can be cemented over the magnet onto the bottom of the tank to make that near permanent. I'm out of thoughts for now.


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## chefkeith

illy- 
Just viewable from 1 side and maybe from the top. For now it's going against a wall. I figure I can hide all my filter inlets/outlets behind the island. So it's not wasted space.

Just putting an inlet on one side and an outlet on the otherside won't give you true unilateral flow. There are too many cross current's no matter how big the water pump is. I think the island and the rounded corners is key for true unilateral flow.

I took my idea from this segmented tank-


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## chefkeith

I'll try to get a quote on some Acrylic tomorrow. I hope my supplier has atleast 10ft sheets and that I can afford them, otherwise I'll have to build the tank in 2 pieces.


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## chefkeith

No luck on getting 10' sheets of acrylic.

3/8"x96"x48"' sheet of Acrylite GP Cell Cast acrylic costs $195 per sheet out the door.

1/4" x 48" x 16" plate glass costs about $43 out the door.

I''ve drawn out plans, have cut-lists, and cost estimations for acrylic and plywood tanks. I'm not sure what I'll do yet, but I'm still leaning on acrylic.


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## FeatherfinFan

Sorry to hear of your problems Keith, It's a shame how high Acrylic pricing is these days. Just a couple years ago I was getting 1/2" Plexiglass G (CellCast) for $138 and that included up to 4 cuts.


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## BigFoot

138 I wish. I just got quoted for $208.00 for a 4 x 8 sheet of cellcast. I am planning one of these tanks out now using your article FeatherfinFan. Not sure on the dims butt I am kicking around a lot of numbers. Any warnings lol..........


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## chefkeith

I think I'm going to build a 160 gallon tank that's 96 x 24" x 16"h with acrylic. Cost of tank will be about $270.

If I build the same tank out of plywood/glass, the cost would be about $190. $60 for plywood, $80 for glass, $25 for drylok, $25 for screws/silicone/glue. Thats' not enough dollar savings to butter my thoughts about plywood tanks.

I can buid this acrylic tank in 1 day easily, the same can't be said about building a plywood/glass tank.


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## chefkeith

FeatherfinFan said:


> Sorry to hear of your problems Keith, It's a shame how high Acrylic pricing is these days. Just a couple years ago I was getting 1/2" Plexiglass G (CellCast) for $138 and that included up to 4 cuts.


Be happy for me. I get to build another tank now. Being that the cost of acrylic is so high, a long/wide shallow tank with a big sump is probably the best solution. A 16" high tank suits my fish perfectly.


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## chefkeith

New drawing-


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## chefkeith




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## chefkeith

My plastics supplier is still getting me a quote for cutting the acrylic. There might be a 2 week lead time to get it cut. So I figured I can build the island, the stand, and fix the old 90g tank in the meantime.

Today, I got the materials I need for building the Cave Island Cove.
What I got-
Quickwall Cement-
Black Lava Rocks
3 Cans Great Stuff Foam
1 Can Waterfall Foam
Foam Sheets
10 ft 4" PVC Pipe
4 - 4" PVC Tee's

I've got lots of Malaysian driftwood that I might try to incorporate also.

I might start building the island Tommorow. It should be lots of fun.


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## FeatherfinFan

Looking forward to seeing this come together Keith, please take some pics along the way bro


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## davidhusker

FeatherfinFan said:


> Looking forward to seeing this come together Keith, please take some pics along the way bro


Me too.

Your drawing seems cool, cant wait to see how its going to come together.


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## chefkeith

I didn't start building anything yet, but I got the acrylic quote- $276 with tax and 2 a day lead time. Now I'm debating about building this tank or not. It would be kind of irresponsible for me to add another big tank. I already have too many tanks. That said, Today I moved some tanks around to make room for the new tank. I'll just barely be able to squeeze in a new 8ft tank. I think I'll be building the new tank, but I'll definately have to get rid of some tanks if I do. So I might be taking 1 step forward, but taking 2 steps back. I think I should keep the 190g and built the 160g, then get rid of most everything else; thats a 95g, 85g, 2-15g's, 2- 10g's, and figure out what to do with the old 90g river tank.


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## FeatherfinFan

Keith, maybe you can build a 190 like the one in my DIY. it's 78 long 19 high and 30 wide (which would give you a bit more width for your island plans). It takes (2) full 3/8" sheets and this also gives you some extra for an overflow box.


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## chefkeith

I'll probably order and pay for the acrylic this Morning. I don't want to give myself much time to back out of my plans. Since the hollidays are coming up, I got the feeling if I don't do this now, it might not happen until next year.

I prefer to go longer and shorter, than wider and taller because I got short arms. 8ft x 2ft x 16" should be perfect for me and my fish. I'll be building this tank with 1.5 sheets of 3/8". If I'm real happy with this design, I might build another identical 8ft tank next year.

I have decided to sell my 85g glass aquarium. It has 165watts of CP lighting in the hood for plants, but I took all the plants out of the tank about 6 months ago. So that tank was really being wasted by me. The tank/hood/stand is probably worth about $350. I'll throw in some nice Malaysian driftwood too as a bonus. I wonder what I can get for it on Ebay.


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## zemro535

What is the cost for "Special Order"? Many times and I speculate since your in a major Metropolitan city is that you have a small acrylic shop vs one that is large. Many of the acrylic shops that are smaller have a larger acrylic supplier in town where they get the acrylic from. Now, beings that your in Detroit I speculate it's far cheaper to get acrylic in, then say here in Austin since I know where Acrylic is mfg'd. Yes, now think of that last sentence Cheifkieth. You possible might take a drive that would be worth while..... Look into it if your wanting 10' acrylic. Get what you really want because your always going to reflect on it. Certainly shop around in some cities close. Also as far as cutting you can probably take the acrylic to any cabnet wood shop and have them cut it far cheaper then the acrylic shop and on the spot. It raised flags that a 2 week waiting period for having it cut. That's not typical of any plastics shop in my experience. Perhaps a couple of days.

Zak


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## MalawiLover

If you have a table saw, all you need is a fine woodworking blade, say 80 tooth to cut the stuff yourself. I have been cutting up to 1/2 acrylic on my table saw with no problems. Obviously getting a 8 (or 10)x4 sheet home is dificult, but if they charge by the cut, you could have them do a cut down the middle to make it fit in a vehicle. If they don't charge by the cut, let them do all of it.


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## zemro535

Malawi lover, they typically charge for cutting by the hour or job. $40 an hour

Zak


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## MalawiLover

oh. My shop charges by the cut. First 2 cuts are free then $5 per cut after that. I would be worried about the hourly thing, the slower they are, the more money they charge. Flat fee for cutting is nice. Though I like cutting my own. They only guarantee there cut to +/-1/16. They are can be more accurate, but to discourage people from use them as a cutting service, they would perfer you to have them build it (much more money ofcourse). Thats too much of a gap with water, so started cutting my own.

I would go somewhere else, but I can't find anywhere cheaper around here that will sell single sheets. They also have a great selection of tubes, rods and colored acrylic, plus a nice discount scrap bin.


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## chefkeith

Zemro- I was mistaken. It turns out there was no cutting charge. The 2 week lead time was if I wanted routered edges. I can't afford to have that done. I'll have to do that myself.

I already ordered and paid for the acrylic. I'll have it in 2 working days. I got the acrylic from AIN Plastics
When I called around a few years ago they had the best prices. This time I didn't bother calling around. Maybe I should have. It's too late now though.


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## chefkeith

For the last few days, I've been planning on how I'm going to build the island. If anyone has any suggestions, I surely would like to hear them. 
As of right now, this is my step by step plan-


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## MalawiLover

WOW      

Looks awesome. I can't wait for the actual building photos.

Will the island break the water surface?


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## chefkeith

Most of the perimeter of the Island will be above water. It will resemble a big volcano island , like Santorini, Greece.


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## MalawiLover

Very Cool. :thumb:


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## chefkeith

I need to crunch some numbers on this island Today. I want to make it as light as possible, dense enough to have it sink on it's own, and heavy enough so it won't move around when it's submerged. I'll estimate it's water displacement and weight. After I do that, I can figure out the mix ratio's of Cement/Foam ect needed.


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## chefkeith

I'm going to have to change the construction plans so that less water is displaced. With the current plan, the island will need to weight about 175 lbs for nuetral bouyancy. I'd like it to weight about 100 pounds. During stage 4 and 5, I'll have to use less concrete and make the cove larger.


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## chefkeith

I think I'd like to add some Water Jets and some airstones w/ airline tubing into the island. My question is- Do Undergravel Water Jets ever need to be cleaned?


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## davidhusker

Well a UGJ system doesnt really need to be cleaned. To be safe even you could put a sponge on your powerhead to stop debris from entering the system.

As far as your island moving around, why dont you just secure it with some silicone or something, I mean anything can be done. I dont see why it moving around will be a big influence. Maybe silicone the pvc cave to the island and attach the pvc to acrylic. I know you know more about what your doing, and of course a 100 lb island wont move around anyways with or without silicone. Keep the updates coming!

:thumb:


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## bell

make the island "hollow" then you could fill it with sand.....


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## MalawiLover

bell said:


> make the island "hollow" then you could fill it with sand.....


Thats a good idea. Makes it a real island then. Or make it with a removable top and just put a few bags of sand in it. You could cover the bags so it still looks like you want it to, and th bags could be easily removed and "raise" the island id you need to do a repair or something. Mush less work for your back.

Hey *Bell*, 
Did you ever finish that river tank? The thread ended with pics of the 2x4 framing.


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## chefkeith

I like all these ideas alot. Thanks plenty.

I never even thought of filling the island cove with sand or sand bags. Absolutely excellent ideas. This takes care of any weight issue's.


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## bell

MalawiLover said:


> bell said:
> 
> 
> 
> make the island "hollow" then you could fill it with sand.....
> 
> 
> 
> Hey *Bell*,
> Did you ever finish that river tank? The thread ended with pics of the 2x4 framing.
Click to expand...

not finished yet, have all the details ironed out though.
the framing is done, been an expensive few months so funds were limited, i'm close to start cutting the plywood


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## chefkeith

bad news. Earlier Today, I blew out my back lifting a 2 gallon water bucket out of my sink. I was in alot of pain, it's much better now though, but I think I need to take it easy for awhile.


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## gumbii

i hope you feel better soon... gee that sux...

i just read the entire thread... i wanted to do something like this a wile back... instead i made a 4' long 9" high 18" deep pleco tank... with sand, rocks and alot of driftwood... power heads on one side, and a sponge in the back with the power head intakes on the other side of the tank... really simple...

anyways... get well, and good luck...


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## chefkeith

My back is still sore, but I went ahead and picked up my acrylic and got some lumbar Today.  
The weather has been real nice. I wish I could of built the tank and stand Today outside. Maybe I'll try to do a little bit of work on the stand Tomorrow if the weather stays the same.


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## chefkeith

I made some real progress this morning/afternoon so far. I cleared out about 100sq. ft of space in my garage. Now I can move some of the old tank/hood/stands out of the fishroom and I'll also have plenty of workspace for building the new tank/stand.

My plan is to build a 8 ft stand that will fit my 95g tank underneath. The 95g will be used as a reservoir/sump. I'm not sure what I'll do with the old 6ft long 90g river tank yet, for now I'll keep it stored away in my garage. I think it takes up too much space to be a sump. I'd rather have some space under the stand for my small snail/fry tanks. This lay-out will give my fishroom a little more storage space also, so I'll finally have a spot for my wet/dry shop vac pump.

Old fishroom lay-out









New fishroom lay-out


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## chefkeith

darn, just thought of something. How am I going to get an 8ft tank and the stand into my fishroom? My ceilings are 8ft high and the hallway is kind of narrow going into the fishroom. I could probably build the stand in several pieces then put it together in the fishroom. I wonder if I should try to build the tank in the fishroom also. I could put a fan in the window to air out the toxic fumes from the weld-on cement. Would this be a bad idea? I got to figure this out.


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## chefkeith

I think I'm about set to build the stand this week-end. I just need to get my buddies compound miter saw. 
My blueprints-


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## FeatherfinFan

Awesome project Keith, I'd be concerned about not being able to move it in or out of your fishroom, just in case you ever want to sell it or move it to another location (or if you have to relocate, etc, etc.) maybe there's a way to sneak it in there??


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## chefkeith

The stand will be somewhat easy to take apart and put together. It will be 29"x30"x96" when fully assembled. The tank might fit through the hallway into the fishroom because it's only 17"x 24"x 96". At last resort, the fish room has a 5ft x 2 ft sliding window that it will definately fit through. I'd probably need a few people to help me lift it through the window opening though. Actually, that way would be too easy. :wink:


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## Koth

This is a very cool project. Can't wait for more updates.


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## chefkeith

Not much of an update. For the stand, I just cut the lumber and screwed some of the plywood braces to to the 2x3 posts. I even made a little jig to make drilling holes easier. There is something about a good jig that makes me feel good.

here's a pic of one of the ply-post's for my stand.


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## chefkeith

I spent most of the last few days breaking down and moving 5 of my snail/shrimp/fry tanks from the fishroom. What a PITA that was. Catching hundreds of snails and moving them could only be done at a snails pace. Catching the shrimp was even more difficult.

Things should be moving quicker now, as that was a major hurdle.


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## RRasco

well keith, nice project seems to finally be underway.

so are you building the stand in the fish room?


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## chefkeith

I think I'll be building everything in the fish room. Enough thinking about it. I just got to do it now.


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## chefkeith

I've started the stand-
The studs I'm using arn't perfectly straight. darn. 








clamp time-








This is making my 6ft stand look awefully small-









Well, my stupid drill batteries ran out of juice and they are not charging very well. I'm thinking the batteries won't fully charge on a 20A circuit. I'll try a 15A plug and see how that works. I was hoping to build this stand in about 1-2 hours, but it might take me all day if I have to charge the batteries every 5 minutes.


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## jontwhale

time to get a cheap wired drill. makes it quick and easy 
Jon


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## chefkeith

The 15A plug worked on the charger. Dumb logic never fails. The stand is more than 50% done.

It looks like the stand is longer than I thought. This darn vent is in the way. 








I fixed it-









Attaching the posts-


























I'm not sure this thing is going to need diag braces on the back. I'll try it without them for now. 
Plywood tops are next.


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## RRasco

looks good so far. dont worry about the boards, i think its pretty much impossible to find straight ones unless you get furniture grade wood.

keep the pics coming.


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## chefkeith

I've shutdown shop for today. Maybe early tommorow I can get the plywood tops done and start preping the acrylic. I'll save the sanding/finishing work on the stand for the very last. I'd really like to get the tank built and up'n running before next Thursday.


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## chefkeith

Ok, one last pic for Today.

Here's the mess on the other side of the fishroom with all the filter hoses running everywhere.


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## chefkeith

Back at work again. I didn't get as much done as I hoped. My back was getting a little sore from crawling around under the stand.
Pic's-
I added a diag. brace to each side. 

















I also added some extra support for the plywood that the 95g sump/reservior will be sitting on.








Laying down the ply-

























and lastly-









I still have to screw down all the plywood. It's definately a strong stand now. I'm done for the day. I have a long fun evening planned. Snooker, Bowling, and Texas Hold'em. If I'm not too hung over tomorrow I'll start preping the acrylic .


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## mikmaze

lookin good, progress is great, gets ya motivated sump area is gonna be the key, tons of filtration !


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## chefkeith

Actually Mikmaze, it will be a "fake" sump. The only filteration I have planned for the sump will be a UV sterilizer (on a700 gph Rio pump) and maybe I'll put a canister filter on it. I mostly want this sump to act as a reservoir for water changes, just so I can empty/fill it, then treat with dechlore. This will save me some on dechlore and eliminate sudden TDS drops on my main tanks. I'm going to have an RO Auto-top off connected to it also.

I really love my canister back-flush system. The back-flush works incredibly well when using a wet/dry shopvac pump instead of a python. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=118423

That is the plan for now. It could change if I get some other idea's. One reason I want to keep it simple is that there will only be 4" of space between the top of this tank and the stand, but really I don't want to mess up this tank because it is a nice tank that I might want to use differently in the near future. I still have that old 90g river tank that I could fix-up and use as a sump. Latter on, I'll probably build a new stand for my 190g tank to accomidate this idea. My goal is to have water-bridges going to all my tanks again.


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## Boom

Keep it coming!

I am excited to see the tank come together......not to mention that since I live near you, I could rely on you for know how if I faced trouble building my 8 footer!


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## chefkeith

I won't be building the tank until after X-mas. Just too much going on right now with relatives coming into town this week.


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## RRasco

nice keith! keep it up and us updated.


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## chefkeith

1 last pic until after x-mas. I had to move my 95g tank, so in the stand it went. 









I can't believe I'm building a tank 2x this size. I'm going to have to build some nice jigs to hold the acrylic in place while I cement it. I've got some good idea's in my head. I guess I should draw them out 1st.


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## chefkeith

I've been experimenting with the sump lately. I just found out for myself how loud overflows can be. I plan on going with 2 self priming overflows using 1" pvc pipe. But I wonder if I used 2" pipe instead if it would be quieter? I was thinking the more air flow in the pipe, the quieter it would be. Is this the correct way of thinking?
For outflow I'll be using a 600 gph pump with 1" clear vinyl tubing and a 1" diy spraybar.

Here's my latest pic. I set-up the snail/shrimp/q-tanks underneath the stand. The acrylic is ready to be preped on the stand also. I just need to borrow my buddies router now. Maybe I can get it on New Years Eve. 









Happy New Years everyone.


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## triggerfish

Have you read the artical about the dursostandpipes? It can answer some of your questions with the air problems that arrise. You should also concider using the white schedual 40 pipe for your pump return line,it's much easier to work with than the vinyl tubing. Yes this does come from experience,I found the tubing does not want to bend where you want it too or stay in that position where as with the pipe you put it where you want it to go. I used the 3/4 inch for my pump which is a rio 26HF with 4 1/2 feet of head then into my spray bar with great flow. 
Here is the site for the durso stand pipe http://www.dursostandpipes.com/ It's a great read.


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## MSUDawgs56

Hey, I am going to follow this thread, everything looks great. I have a question for you. Do you have a way to remove the sump and quarantine tanks from the stand when everything is up and running? The sump looks large and when everything is finished, you want to make sure you have room to slide this sump out if it every needs maintenance or leaks or something.

On my 240 8 ft stand, i build a set of doors on the end of my stand so i could slide my tanks out of the underside of my stand,,

Just a thought..

Good Luck


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## chefkeith

Thanks Triggerfish. I'm still not sure how I want to plumb things. I might just use the sump tank to age water and for topping off the main tanks when I backflush my canisters.

MSU- The posts are removable so that the tank can easily slide out. That's why I built the stand the way I did, with the plywood/2x3 posts screwed in on the outside. The tanks on the left in the picture are actually 3 small tanks (2-15g's and 1-10g), not 1 big tank.


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## chefkeith

Unfortunately I didn't get the router from my buddy last night. I'll try to get it again on Friday. I'm going to build the island now instead.

My latest idea is to build a pulley system above the tank on the ceiling so I can easily raise and lower the island into and out of the tank. The island will be about 6 ft long about 1 foot wide. It will probably get pretty heavy in the tank if it absorbs much water. The tank will have perimeter bracing cemented in, but I'll bolt in the center braces so I can move the island in and out.


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## imusuallyuseless

I can't wait to see this thing.


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## chefkeith

The island build has begun. I'm just going to build it on the acrylic sheet. -

Pic's- 
Laying out the egg crate-








Measuring the pipe to be used for the main cave-








Fitting the pipe together-









foot print of island is 78" x 11". So far the island weights 20.4 pound's.


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## chefkeith

I set up the pipe at a slight incline to help keep any debris out.


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## FeatherfinFan

Keith, have you tried my PVC jigs for holding and bonding your acrylic? They work great and are easily adjustable, and do a nice job keeping the pieces tight and perpendicular. Plus they're cheap & reuseable 
The thing I really like about them is the bend at the elbows allow room to get the needle to the inside of the seam in case you need to flow some in the back of the seam


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## chefkeith

Brad, I don't think I tried them. I'm planning on building a couple of plywood jigs. I have plenty of plywood, so it won't cost me anything.

For the jigs I want, the acrylic would be clamped to the jig so that the the sheet would be suspended in mid air perpendicular to the other piece of acrylic. This way I can use fewer pins or no pins at all. I wasn't good at the pins method the last time I tried it. 
Here's a drawing of what I'm talking about-


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## MSUDawgs56

Looking good and I was pretty sure you had the sump where you could remove it...just wanted to suggest!!

Please keep the pictures coming!!!


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## chefkeith

I'm integrating some spray bars into the island, kind of like under gravel jets. These are the same spray bars and powerheads I used for the old river tank. The powerheads are Aquaclear 802's (now model #70) with quick-filter attachments. They are rated for 400 gph and use 20 watts each.
I set-up the spray bars and piping so that I'll be able to clean them out with a long pipe brush (a brush is sticking out of the 3rd spraybar in the picture). One pump will be set on the far left and the other will be inside the cove of the island. I'll probably hack off a few inches from the top of each spray bar. I definately don't need to do that now though. 
When I start carving out the island, I might make a small pool with a waterfall on top of the island, that is feed from one of the spraybars.


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## chefkeith

I'm getting very close to pouring my concrete bottom for the island. I just need to goto Home Depot and get more Perlite.

Here's a pic of where the concrete is going-









My next posts will have details of the concrete mix I'm using.


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## chefkeith

Home Depot was closed  so I went to Walmart instead  . They had Schultz"s Perlite at Walmart. It turns out that this brand is less dense per volume than the Scott"s Perlite, which is at Home Depot. This is a good thing, but I'll have to recalculate all my mixing ratio's now.


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## fabulousfat5

Well it stinks to have to recalculate, but I'm sure it will be worth it.


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## chefkeith

The light weight concrete mix I used (by volume)-

1 part portland cement type I
1 part quickwall surface bonding cement
4 parts Perlite
1.66 parts RO water

Here's the cements. The quickwall is the white stuff underneath. I used it because it has lots of glass fibers in it-









This is what Perlite looks like. It is used mostly for soil aeration in gardening. It costs about $3 per 1.5# bag at Walmart. 









I made 2 large batches of this concrete in the cat box. Mixing got kind of messy. It's best to add all the water to the cement and mix that together. It should be watery. Then mix in the Perlite last. The Perlite will soak up all the water.









Poured that. It's about 1" thick.









I then layed down the big cave / Pvc pipe-









I also made 3 small batches of concrete to fill in the gaps and build up areas around the PVC pipe.
It's so much easier to mix small batches. I used less Perlite and water for this also.
I'll be lightly spraying the concrete with RO water as it cures.









Well, I made about 51 pounds of concrete. All the piping and eggcrate weighted about 22 pounds. Total weight so far about 73#'s.

Adding the styrofoam is next. Which I think should probably be the funnest part.


----------



## mr.dark-saint

Mixing cement in a litter box :lol: . You should've just used the clumping litter :lol: . I would've just sacrificed a bucket (they're only like two bucks) or do you no longer have cats? It'll be funny if you took the litter box to the seller and say "hey the litter you sold me for my cats won't come off the box" :lol: .

All joking aside. Was the Egg Crate nessasary? After curing the cement would've been plenty, no? Then again with the added weight of the cement may snap the Egg Crate and the PVC on it's own. I would've also rigged the Water Jets PVC to the Sewer Pipes instead of just laying one on top of the other. I suppose if you ever need to do any moving I'd recomend having at least three pairs of hands to move the island (since there really isn't any rebars to keep it stiff).

Also why didn't you just use one Mag-Drive 3 instead of having a pair of 802?

All in all it's coming along :thumb: .


----------



## BinaryWhisper

I have no idea what you are doing but it's looking pretty cool. 

Good tip on the lightweight concrete. It's a common method that I've read about dozens of times when looking at construction techniques and yet I never thought of using in aquariums.


----------



## chefkeith

mr.dark-saint said:


> All joking aside. Was the Egg Crate nessasary? After curing the cement would've been plenty, no? Then again with the added weight of the cement may snap the Egg Crate and the PVC on it's own. I would've also rigged the Water Jets PVC to the Sewer Pipes instead of just laying one on top of the other. I suppose if you ever need to do any moving I'd recomend having at least three pairs of hands to move the island (since there really isn't any rebars to keep it stiff).
> 
> Also why didn't you just use one Mag-Drive 3 instead of having a pair of 802?


The eggcrate wasn't necessary, but I think it might help prevent cracking.

I'm not sure about the powerhead question. I bought them about 4 years ago and don't have a mag drive 3.

The way I have the powerheads set-up, it will create some water flow inside the big cave and the cove. I was just going to use 1 pump, but since I was adding a clean-out to the piping on the bottom, I thought I'd make an option for a 2nd pump. My main concern was being able to clean the pipes.


----------



## davidhusker

what is this concrete layer for? is it only to hold everything in place and hold it down?

Its looking good... but i dont know what im looking at right now.
Whats the island going to be made of? Is something going to cover the PVC pipe...


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## chefkeith

mr.dark-saint- 
I was able to lift the slab of concrete and turn it on it's side without it breaking. IMO, without the eggcrate tying the concrete together, it would of cracked. And the way I cemented in the piping was a great idea because the pipe is a good place to lift it.


----------



## chefkeith

davidhusker said:


> what is this concrete layer for? is it only to hold everything in place and hold it down?
> 
> Its looking good... but i dont know what im looking at right now.
> Whats the island going to be made of? Is something going to cover the PVC pipe...


Yep, you answered your own question. Thanks. 
I done some step by step drawings earlier in the thread on how I was building this. I'll be skipping a few steps though so that the island is lighter.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... &&start=15

The rest of the island will be built much like a styrofoam/cement background. After I add all the foam and cement, you won't see any pipes.


----------



## chefkeith

This is the 1st mock up with the foam sheets. I've got a ton more foam to add, and I've got 4 cans of Great Stuff Foam that I'll use to glue everything into place and to add some mass. I still need to cut down the spraybars too.


----------



## chefkeith

After reviewing Lomax's thread on how he did his background, I went and picked-up a black & decker, 3 speed rotary tool. I tested it out and think carving out the island contour will be much easier and prettier now. This is a really nice tool for this kind of work and it's alot quieter than I thought it would be. It cost only $26 at Walmart. I bought a cutting bit and grinding stone bit also.

Thankyou Lomax for the great tips in that thread.


----------



## FeatherfinFan

It's coming along nicely Keith, you've got many cool plans all coming together to provide all of us w/ some great ideas for future "dream tanks".

BTW, those jigs look good, are you going to go w/ capillary seaming (no pins) and just apply downward pressure as the WeldOn penetrates?

look forward to all your updates, just an awesome project


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## Koth

This is my favourite projects on this forum. Keep up the good work.


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## chefkeith

Yes Brad, Capillary attraction with Weld-On #4. 
After I'm done routing the edges, I'll follow Zemro's advice about wearing cottom gloves and cleaning the acrylic edges with rubbing alcohol. Thanks for the tips Zack.

Then I'll be going about things a little differently. 
The procedure I'm thinking about-
1. Seam each Perimeter brace to Front, Back, and both sides
2. Seam the Front to both sides, then flip over
3. Seam the Back to both sides
4. Seam the bottom to the Front, Back, and both sides.

So for cementing, I'll do the perimeter bracing for each piece 1st. The jigs I drew out should work good for this. I'll probably use pins or razor blades to set the height of the gap between the pieces of acrylic, then clamp the acrylic to the jig, then pull the pins or razor blades, then cement the entire seam, then carefully loosen the clamps and let the acrylic slide into it's final place.

For the 1st 2 side joints, I'll repeat the above process, then join the perimeter bracing together.
Here's the jig again-









For the next 2 sides, I'll flip everything over. (The perimeter bracing should make this easier to do). The jig will now only hold one side up because the perimeter bracing and Front sheet of acrylic will be in my way, so I'll have to use a shim between the top of the jig and the acrylic. (The jig will be about the same height as the acrylic's side). Then I'll cement the entire seam, then pull the shim, then loosen the clamp. Then join the perimeter braces.









The bottom seam might be a little tricky, but I'll be making 4 other jigs, one for each side. I'll set the bottom gap by placing a shim between the perimeter bracing and the jig. Then just work my way around the entire bottom seam quickly with the solvent cement, then go around and remove all the shims. 









If this doesn't give me 100% bubble free seams, I don't know what will. I'll set-up my camera in video mode for this. I'm hoping I can cement with one hand and hold the camera with the other. 
Thanks.


----------



## chefkeith

Thanks Koth. I'll keep it going. I'll start glueing together some styrofoam sheets now. Since I'm not a fan of the fumes and the mess that silicone makes, this is the method that I'll be using. 
Apply foam spray without the attachment nozzle-








Use plenty of foam
















Move and spread the foam around underneath the piece. Remove the piece and let foam spread get tacky, then reapply the piece. It should be set in about 30 minutes.








When finished, cleaned the tip of the spray can with a cotton swab. I used rubbing alcohol on the cotton swab to get the tip real clean.


----------



## chefkeith

I spent some of my all nighter reworking the design strategy of the island. I'll be building it from the inside to the outside. 
So I 1st layed out the inner perimeter of the cove-








Then leveled the inside-









On the outside I have this so far-








Then I put down some beers and carved out some cliff's-









I'm not sure when I'll start glueing the foam sheets into place. I want to have the design much further along before before things are finalized. I like where this is going though. This is definately the funnest part. It's kind of like building a puzzle. Even though I don't know exactly what I'm doing, some of the pieces are fitting together nicely.


----------



## mikesl

I LOVE your plan.

You hit the nail on the head with the "only" way to get a river tank effect with real unform flow.

I have a very crude approximation of this setup with a pile of driftwood and rocks in the middle of my 40 breeder, but you are really doing it right.

Keep in mind that volume flow rate around the circuit will be ~constant, so your flow speed will be a function of the cross-sectional area of the "river"... the smaller the channel the faster the flow.

You can use this to your advantage, making the area behind the island narrower and faster-flowing.. (the idea being the fish will prefer to be in front of the island and more visible)

Plus, it will be a better match for the nozzle velocity of your powerheads that way (less turbulence maybe)

One more thing... I did find that even a little rock pile in the corners to "round them off" and help the water flow "bounce" around the sharp corner helps a lot to reduce eddies, so you might want to play with that once you have the tank filled.


----------



## FeatherfinFan

You're really covering all bases w/ this DIY project from top to bottom (and side to side, lol). With all your time and energy invested I think I'd have a friend hold the camera while you're seaming up the critical bottom piece though :lol: :lol:


----------



## BinaryWhisper

you should clear coat it just the way it is and fill it up and add the fish and post the pix. I can almost guarantee they will be the most re-posted aquarium pix on the internet within a month


----------



## chefkeith

mikesl- Thanks. The original plan was to round all the corners with thin sheets of acrylic, like this-








But now I'm thinking I should round out the corners with a styrofoam design instead, to make it look more authentic. More work, but it will be worth it.

FeatherfinFan- I'm going to be all out of idea's when this project is done. I just want my clown loaches to have a place that they can call home. I think they'll love it. I'll have to get a few cichlids too. I'm thinking about getting a pair of Steatocranus casuarius, Buffalohead Cichlids, which are from the rocky rapids of the Congo River.

BinaryWhisper- lol. I'll probably be spending atleast another 2-3 weeks working on sculpting the foam. I'm in no hurry to get this done. This kind of reminds me of carving ice. I use to participate in ice sculpting competitions back when I was a culinary student. I would usually draw out a templete before hand, then stick the templete to the block of ice, then chainsaw out the figure, then use chisels and a rotary tool to carve out the details. It's lots of fun, even in the freezing cold.

I hope all you can stand my slow pace.


----------



## chefkeith

Here's a design element I'm adding called Indian Head Rock, it's from Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore located in Upper Michigan.


----------



## chefkeith

I got some of the styrofoam mass ready to be glued into place. I also hacked the middle spraybar in half so that the cove will have an inlet. I cut the other spraybars to the proper height also. 
This thing is just too big to completely plan out. I'm not too sure where this is heading. I'll be adding and subtracting until I'm happy with what I got. This is what I got so far-








Back to work, I'll start glueing some pieces together now.


----------



## mr.dark-saint

chefkeith said:


> The eggcrate wasn't necessary, but I think it might help prevent cracking. *I didn't think a frial bit of plastic could hold up that much cement.*
> 
> I'm not sure about the powerhead question. I bought them about 4 years ago and don't have a mag drive 3. *Well I was just thinking the amount of money spent on two Powerheads you could've bought a Mag-Drive to power the whole thing. But since you already had them (this information was not known to me) that's peachie :thumb: .*
> 
> mr.dark-saint-
> I was able to lift the slab of concrete and turn it on it's side without it breaking. IMO, without the eggcrate tying the concrete together, it would of cracked. And the way I cemented in the piping was a great idea because the pipe is a good place to lift it. *Like I said before the egg crate is flimsy but if it worked out very cool for ya :thumb: . I would've used something more substantial or made the sections smaller so it wouldn't make stress some of the areas.*


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## chefkeith

I started glueing in the foam panels with foam spray and filled in all the gaps that I didn't want fish getting stuck in.

















I ran out of foam spray before I got the job done though. Went through 4 cans of the stuff. I made another mess too. I've have to carve out alot of it after it dries.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

I like it, looks...messy


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## chefkeith

I got more done-.









I've been thinking more about the design theme, which is constantly changing, I just can't make up my mind. My original idea was to make it look volcanic, then I was thinking rocky looking, then I thought eroded cliff banks, but now I'm thinking eroded riverbank. Very muddy looking, with driftwood peircing out from the cove and in the foreground. I grabbed some driftwood that I had sitting around and mocked it up. I think it looks pretty good-










River tank should = Riverbank theme. duh. Why did it take me so long.


----------



## umnchuck

I like the riverbank theme... then you can silicone dark sand to the styrofoam to make it look like and actual sandy river bank


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## chefkeith

For the riverbank, what I'm thinking of is more in the lines of this- erosion, tree roots, compacted dirt and clay, muddy looking.
















credit for pics-
http://travel.mongabay.com/
I can carve some roots into the island, with the addition of real driftwood, I think this could look great. For substrate I'd want a dark muddy looking sand. Some Eco Complete mixed with sand might give me that look.


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## fabulousfat5

That would look awesome. I like this idea a lot. The erosion look is key, really a great effect.


----------



## chefkeith

I spend about an hour just staring at what I got. 









I think I see what I have and where I'm going with this. I just need to build up a few more area's with foam, then I should be ready to start carving.


----------



## BinaryWhisper

I was going to go hunting for stumps in the marsh to use. A good cedar stump with roots intact would look wicked. I figured I'd epoxy it to protect it although cedar should last a long time even unprotected. I don't know of you have seen a cedar stump with roots intact but they are pretty cool. THey would look great draped over the scape.

just a thought


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## chefkeith

I have a few hundred pounds of Malaysian driftwood that I bought a few years ago. I'd really like to use this since it's just sitting around. I'll sort through all the pieces I have and post some more pics of it tonight.


----------



## chefkeith

I didn't do much. I just paint brushed the island photo more. I wonder if my foam carving and cement sculpting skills are up to the challenge. Can I make it look even close to this?

















I don't think I need to add any more foam. I can just build up the low area's with some lightweight concrete later on.

Carving has started somewhat. I'm really just trying to get familiar with some of the tools 1st-
The rotary tool- 









The sanding bit shapes the Great Stuff foam Ok. (A grinding stone bit doesn't seem to remove the great stuff foam too well).









reciprocating saw- good for hacking off stuff 









I have an angle grinder that I might try out for when I need deep grooves-









These other hand tools will have there use also. I tried some chisel's also, but they were rather useless.


----------



## illy-d

I have found that steak knifes work very well at cutting styro...

PS: I like the way this is going... Are you going to add a brown tint to the concrete to replicate the stumps/roots? Or are you going to piece-mail together the root systems out of all that malaysian driftwood you said you had laying around? Either way would work - but using 'real' wood would look better me thinks...


----------



## chefkeith

Had another brain storm for my island theme-


----------



## chefkeith

illy-d said:


> I have found that steak knifes work very well at cutting styro...
> 
> PS: I like the way this is going... Are you going to add a brown tint to the concrete to replicate the stumps/roots? Or are you going to piece-mail together the root systems out of all that malaysian driftwood you said you had laying around? Either way would work - but using 'real' wood would look better me thinks...


Yes, with the brown tint, but the final coat will be 100% portland cement so that it doesn't look too grainy. I''ve got brown, black, and red tint. I should probably mix some samples 1st so that the colors look good. The real driftwood will be worked in somehow.


----------



## mikmaze

the sock puppet looks good, would stand the test of time, the ford, however, would most likely break down, and rust, adding iron to the water, not to mention the uh o factor if it was 6.0 diesel powered.


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## triggerfish

Another good way to cut the foam is with an electric carving knife from your kitchen,it works great on the foam.


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## imusuallyuseless

chefkeith said:


> Had another brain storm for my island theme-


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## chefkeith

I started carving on the left side. This is the before pic-








After round 1 of carving








At this point, I realized I'd have to modify my design slightly, so I took the above picture and reworked my design template.








I'll probably be doing the above process many times. Carve, take a picture, modify the design template, repeat.


----------



## chefkeith




----------



## fabulousfat5

That is crazy. Looks amazing. This tank is gonna be amazing with those roots. Looks very real even without the paint and such yet.


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## chefkeith

One thing that I forgot to mention earlier, is that I was using RO water mixed in with the cement/concrete that I used. The reason being is that it should cure better because it won't have any side reactions that my normal tap water might cause.

There is a good article about the science of cement here- http://matse1.mse.uiuc.edu/~tw/concrete/prin.html

Any further discussions about cement, please respond to at this thread- http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=132747


----------



## chefkeith

I started the right center side-


----------



## kpm2k

chefkeith said:


> Had another brain storm for my island theme-


Looks like Keith was into granpa's medicine here :lol:


----------



## chefkeith

I went back to work on the left-side.


----------



## MalawiLover

This is really turning out nice Chefkeith. I can see the final picture in my head easily. I can't wait to see the finished product with the fish in it.


----------



## luvbonbon

bump

can't wait to see the final result!!!!!!


----------



## BinaryWhisper

pretty nice so far and lots of pix, thanks


----------



## illy-d

Are you going to leave the cave entrances white? I was thinking it would probably be easy to smear a bit of silicone in them and sprinkle some sand over top...


----------



## luvbonbon

illy-d said:


> sprinkle some sand over top...


Fantastic idea! 8)


----------



## Adams2156

this is looking amazing...great job


----------



## fabulousfat5

Good to see something come out so nice after taking your time and working hard at it. Ditto seeing the final results.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Don't ya hate when you sit down to check your e-mail then you stumble upon a thread like this :? I just wasted the last hour reading the entire thread.....

Nice, I simply love the island. It's looking realy awesome. I'm learning alot about foam and concrete.... I'm just a dumb carpenter/electrician/plumber....

Maybe I should do something concrete with my life and pour cement....... 

Keep up the good work, and keep up on those pictures!


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## imusuallyuseless

Going good so far :thumb:


----------



## chefkeith

illy-d said:


> Are you going to leave the cave entrances white? I was thinking it would probably be easy to smear a bit of silicone in them and sprinkle some sand over top...


I'll definitely be adding something to the cave entrances so that they arenâ€™t white. 
Good idea with the sand. I'll have to wait until the cement goes on to see what matches best though. Either sand, eco complete gravel, colored cement, or a combination of all 3 is what Iâ€™m thinking.


----------



## chefkeith

Thanks everyone. I'll do my best to keep it up. I'm having alot of fun.


----------



## tripn

Great job!!! You obviously have more time and patience than I do.. not to mention my wife would have killed me by now... But love your thread love your tank and most of all love your commitment.. Keep up the great work I cant wait to see the finished product!!!
:thumb: :thumb:


----------



## chefkeith

Good Morning All . I made more progress.
The right side-








Full view-









I think I'm done carving out the main design. I still need to glue some pieces into place (many pieces are just pinned into place right now), then I'll need to trim and thin everything out so that the cement doesn't make it look too fat.


----------



## umnchuck

Do you have all of the stumps and styro measured out so you can fit it in the tank? Or are you planning on building a tank around it?


----------



## MalawiLover

That is just too cool. It will be awesome when its cemented and colored. :thumb:


----------



## illy-d

The detail you have carved into/out of this thing is unbelieveable... I am a little concerned with some of the thinner roots though... Are you sure that you will be able to cover them with enough concrete to counteract the buoyancy? While at the same time keep them light enough that they won't break off under their own weight (assuming they are not going to be completely submerged while they cure etc...)???

I remember reading a thread about a DIY styro/concrete 'root system' that someone tried and the thinner parts of styro just broke off and floated...


----------



## fabulousfat5

> I remember reading a thread about a DIY styro/concrete 'root system' that someone tried and the thinner parts of styro just broke off and floated...


*illy-d*

I really hope that doesn't happen for chef's sake anyways! Plus This thing is awesome! Great detail, I too cannot wait for the color and crete.


----------



## frank1rizzo

illy-d said:


> I remember reading a thread about a DIY styro/concrete 'root system' that someone tried and the thinner parts of styro just broke off and floated...


Just an idea (never tried it myself).

What if he were to drill a ton of holes with a 3/8 drill bit along the whole root.

It seems like it would give the cement some extra surface to bond with, makethe little root stronger, and take away some extra styro to decrease the buoyancy.

Im thinking holes that go all the way through.


----------



## chefkeith

illy-d said:


> The detail you have carved into/out of this thing is unbelieveable... I am a little concerned with some of the thinner roots though... Are you sure that you will be able to cover them with enough concrete to counteract the buoyancy? While at the same time keep them light enough that they won't break off under their own weight (assuming they are not going to be completely submerged while they cure etc...)???
> 
> I remember reading a thread about a DIY styro/concrete 'root system' that someone tried and the thinner parts of styro just broke off and floated...


I thought about that earlier. I was stumped.  On a previous foam/cement cave project I did, something like that happened. I think if I trim and thin the foam it will help. I'll use Quickwall ,glass fiber reinforced cement, for those parts to add strength.

Also, the thin roots are just pinned into place right now. It might help if I dipped these pieces in cement 1st. Give them a float test to see if they sink. Add more cement until they do sink, then I'll glue them in place, then cement over the joint.


----------



## chefkeith

umnchuck said:


> Do you have all of the stumps and styro measured out so you can fit it in the tank? Or are you planning on building a tank around it?


Yes. The tank will have about a 92" x 20" opening on the top. This island has a footprint of about 78" x 11". With the roots extending out it's about 80"x 18". I'll probably be building an overhead plywood/cable lift so I can carefully lower it into and out of the tank.


----------



## chefkeith

frank1rizzo said:


> illy-d said:
> 
> 
> 
> I remember reading a thread about a DIY styro/concrete 'root system' that someone tried and the thinner parts of styro just broke off and floated...
> 
> 
> 
> Just an idea (never tried it myself).
> 
> What if he were to drill a ton of holes with a 3/8 drill bit along the whole root.
> 
> It seems like it would give the cement some extra surface to bond with, makethe little root stronger, and take away some extra styro to decrease the buoyancy.
> 
> Im thinking holes that go all the way through.
Click to expand...

I like this drilling holes idea. Thanks.


----------



## chefkeith

I thought the roots were looking too busy and the lines of them weren't flowing too well on camera. So I removed a few roots to clean it up visual clutter.

I also had a few visitors show up to look things over. The ducks are looking right at home.


----------



## BinaryWhisper

its looking real good. As I've mentioned before I've planned on doing the root thing my self so I've watched this with great interest (and will continue to do so). But so far I believe I will stick with my original idea and embed real roots into the scape.

I'm looking forward to the cement phase


----------



## sssage

fish paradise, that's what it looks like to me. My big loaches would be at home in a scape like that. Perhaps some day I can follow in your steps and give my boys a proper home.


----------



## AF_medic

won't the ducks be tempted to eat the fish? or are they just there for quality control? :lol:


----------



## chefkeith

BinaryWhisper said:


> its looking real good. As I've mentioned before I've planned on doing the root thing my self so I've watched this with great interest (and will continue to do so). But so far I believe I will stick with my original idea and embed real roots into the scape.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the cement phase


I was at that cross road in this project with the real driftwood. Some of the driftwood I have was kind of frozen though because I never let it dry out after I took it out of my tanks. I had them stored outside in my garage in a rubbermaid container. Stupid me. I'll still try to blend some in when I'm finished here, but it just won't be a permanent part.

I kind of wish I knew from the get go that I was doing roots, then I probably could of designed this a little bit nicer. On the other hand, I think roots grow by no design, so not having a set plan might of been a good thing. I did set up the styrofoam so that it would have some natural lines and curves that I could follow (which is something I learned at culinary school when making platters). Time for me to shut-up now.


----------



## fabulousfat5

I didn'tknow you couldcook... LOL jk Chef!


----------



## jebnflash

I just saw this thread this morning and all I can say is wow, I have thought about a way to put a tank in the wall between my bedroom and my living room and sill keep privacy, I can see a form of your tank working in there, cant wait to see it done. Verry nice tank.


----------



## chefkeith

Yesterday, I started cementing the back wall and inside walls of the cove.-
I'm trying to get an eye for the coloration that I'll be using in the front. I will be putting on addition coats of cement with different colors. 
For the 1st coat, I used a mix of Portland Cement and Quickwall cement.-


----------



## fabulousfat5

Looking good so far... keep us posted!


----------



## Maxi

That looks great, specially the tree roots.


----------



## chefkeith

I finished cementing the back wall of the island. It might not look like much, but that there is my biological filter.









Better than pot scrubbers or bio balls? 









I'll be doing the front caves next.


----------



## chefkeith

This island is getting heavy fast. According to my spreadsheet, where I'm tracking the weights and measures of all the materials used, it should weight about 92#'s, plus the weight of the foam. I put the island on a scale and it weighted 93.2 pounds / 42.3 kg's. 

It looks like it won't be at the goal weight of 100#'s; it will probably be about 125#â€™s when finished. That works for me.


----------



## chefkeith

quick update-
I flipped the island on it's side so that I could cement the caves better.








After I cemented the caves-








Then I mixed up a thin batch of brown cement, but ran out before I got everything covered.








The base coat looks good I think.
I still need to glue in all of the thin pieces. I just thought if I cemented the front half of the pieces 1st, then they wouldn't fall apart when I carved more foam out of them. Atleast now we don't have to look at all that ugly yellow foam anymore too.


----------



## illy-d

there's a critter in your cave :lol: Is he hiding from the bullfrog or the ducks?


----------



## Adams2156

looks great...also the critters add a touch of class id have to say


----------



## umnchuck

everytime I look at the picture, I see another critter! :lol:


----------



## fabulousfat5

Looks great... Just to let you know rabbits don't fair well to water! LOL! But really it does look awesome.


----------



## Koth

chefkeith said:


> I finished cementing the back wall of the island. It might not look like much, but that there is my biological filter.


How does it act as a biological filter?


----------



## chefkeith

I'm done for Today. I put another layer of cement in. I still didn't glue in the thin branches because I can't get to area's behind them if I did. I'm ready to do that next though.
The latest pic-


----------



## chefkeith

Koth said:


> chefkeith said:
> 
> 
> 
> I finished cementing the back wall of the island. It might not look like much, but that there is my biological filter.
> 
> 
> 
> How does it act as a biological filter?
Click to expand...

It acts the same as any biofilter. All a biofilter is, is surface mass that bacteria can grow on. It doesn't matter where it is as long as water is flowing on it. The front will act as biofilter too. There is really no reason for me to put a bunch of bio-media in my sump, because the cement surface of the island will provide enough of it.


----------



## OSUguy98

Have you thought about adding any baffles (a short incline/decline) along the back to mix/stir the water? kinda like how putting an airfoil (airplan wing) in an airstream will create turbulence...

They could also help you maniuplate the underwater currents (creating a "fast flow" area where a filter intake might be located so that sand/etc would never get into the filter)

Are you going to place any kind of barricades so that fish don't get behind the island and hide all the time?

I'm looking forward to seeing this tank in operation!


----------



## chefkeith

OSUguy98 said:


> Have you thought about adding any baffles (a short incline/decline) along the back to mix/stir the water? kinda like how putting an airfoil (airplan wing) in an airstream will create turbulence...
> 
> They could also help you manipulate the underwater currents (creating a "fast flow" area where a filter intake might be located so that sand/etc would never get into the filter)
> 
> Are you going to place any kind of barricades so that fish don't get behind the island and hide all the time?
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing this tank in operation!


I haven't thought about adding any baffles. I doubt I will.

I keep all my filter intakes just below mid level. I've been doing this for a few years. Sand won't get in at this level and if a filter or hose has a catastrophic failure, at worst only half the tank will be emptied.

I haven't though about putting any barricade in the back yet. I'll keep my eye on it to see if this will be a problem. The back will be long, narrow, high flow, with not much room to turn around, and with no place to hide. Probably not many fish will like it. I'm thinking fry might like the surf back there and my Pleco's might like sucking on the acrylic/algae that will be back there too. We'll see.

I'm looking forward to see how all the fish react to this set-up also. Alot of possibilities with how the cove comes into play. I'm thinking it could be a perfect spawning area if I put some thick vegetation in there. I have about 5#'s of Java Moss that I can use.


----------



## chefkeith

one more pic-


----------



## davidhusker

lookin good.

i spy...
ducks squirrel frog cat


----------



## luvbonbon

You should do this for a living!! 

that cat looks like the real thing!!!!!!!!!! :roll:

LOL

jk


----------



## cturner

This is great, I've been following your progress on this and you are doing a fantastic job. I'm interested to see how it looks when it's in the tank. When it gets warmer here I plan to do pvc/styro/cement mountains to put in my 90 gallon to eliminate the need of carefully stacked rocks. I plan to do 2 "mountains" so they can be easily pulled out of the tank for a good cleaning. Good luck on the rest of your build, I'll be watching 8) !


----------



## chefkeith

Progress has been almost nil this week. My back has been real sore, so I'm taking a few days off this project. All I have done is experimented with a different cement color called "Buff". I just brushed some of this color on the roots, to see how it contrasts and balances the whole thing. The color is good IMO. I'll be cementing over this, so how it looks now doesn't matter, but now I know it will highlight the brown well. I'm also trying to imagine how it will look with green/red algae growing on it when it matures in the tank. ( I also cut out part of one root, which didn't flow to well). I think I'll be elimating any roots that were sticky out to far. My cat helped me make that decision as she chewed on them and knocked them off.


----------



## chefkeith

Here's a pic of some tree roots from Malaysia that inspired me some


----------



## Adams2156

looking great :thumb:


----------



## Ansphire

More Pictures, More Pictures, More Pictures.... Oh, sorry, still on the super bowl mood. :thumb:


----------



## chefkeith

I'm still in the SuperBowl lazy mood too. I don't feel like doing any work on this thing and I have other things I need to do 1st. I'm taking some IT Web Programming classes right now and they are consuming alot of my time.


----------



## Ansphire

Boooooooo.... Boooooooo.... Boooooooooo ... You suuu......... oh.. man I gotta get over this football season.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## chefkeith

lol :lol: :lol:


----------



## chefkeith

I'm back from my little break.  I finally borrowed a router from my friend and purchased the bit I need so that I can start preping all of the acrylic. I might do that in next day or so.

Back to the Island Project-
I started working on the exterior roots.
I already had a thin layer of concrete on the outer half of each of the thin exterior roots. 









This gave the foam enough strength to where I could grind out most it with a rotary tool.









Then I flame hardened the foam. This piece isn't much stronger than an egg shell.









Next, I'll fill all these roots with some cement


----------



## chefkeith

Done with that.


----------



## Koth

My God, man! What did you eat?!


----------



## bell

"it's no big deal" then carl proceeds to take a bite


----------



## Adams2156

dang...you are a beast...nice work :thumb:


----------



## Ansphire

Its about freaggin time!!!!!... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey man.. I can't wait to see this done.. Football is over, cichlids are young.. and the mets don't start in a few months..... What else am I gonna do besides looking at your proyect??


----------



## fabulousfat5

Looks good. That was a good decision on filling in those roots like that.


----------



## chefkeith

Ah, yes. funny stuff people. OK. I'll be working on this proyect alot this week. I finished all my web programming for this week and to think it's only Monday. 

Only bad news is that I broke one of roots I worked on last night because I moved it before the cement set-up. Anyways, these roots won't float now. I gave a few of them a floatation test a few minutes ago and they sunk like rocks.

I'll glue those roots in next and put another layer of cement over the whole thing, then I might start preping the acrylic.

This island currently weights about 114 pounds.


----------



## fabulousfat5

Thats a heavy mother! LOL. Who would think that a few light coats of concrete can make all that weight?? Oh well...


----------



## chefkeith

All the extra roots are cemented into place. I didn't glue them in like I planned. I just hope the cement doesn't crack at the joints.


----------



## fabulousfat5

It looks great! I don't see it being a problem, provided you don't drop anything on them (or whatever...). I think with all the weight in the roots now, you should be more than fine. We know a floating issue won't cause them to break LOL! :thumb:


----------



## zemro535

Please divulge how this is going to go in the tank as in putting it from the table to the inside of the tank. An acrylic tank with a top on it. :lol: :lol: :lol: Hmmm have you thought of this. Film it when you get that far......


----------



## zemro535

Please divulge how this is going to go in the tank as in putting it from the table to the inside of the tank. An acrylic tank with a top on it. :lol: :lol: :lol: Hmmm have you thought of this. Film it when you get that far...... 100+ lbs


----------



## fabulousfat5

The tank is being built around the island! The base acrylic is under the island, and the sides will be added when the island is ready.


----------



## chefkeith

Thanks for bringing that up Zak. I do have plans for this stuff.

I'll be hoisting the island into the tank with steel cables and pulleys running from ceiling.

I'll need to make a collapsible platform to put the island on. It will be made of 2x4's and will have eye-bolts on sides that will connect to the cables. The platform needs to be collapsible because there won't be enough room for it to be removed from inside the tank if it was whole. So the platform will NOT be screwed together at all because each piece of the platform will need to be removed from the tank from underneath the island. The design I have is as simple
as can be.

The island and its platform will fit in the tank because the center braces on the tank will be removable, they will be bolted in. 
The tank will also have 2" perimeter bracing permanently cemented in. The center braces will be bolted to the perimeter bracing.

Here's a drawing of the hoist I'm planning (click on the drawing to enlarge it).









I'll try to take pic's or a video of when I'm putting the island in the tank.


----------



## fabulousfat5

Ok... I stand corrected! I thought I remembered seeing something about the tank being built "around" the island??


----------



## chefkeith

BTW, the island could be put in by hand if I had a few people to help. I don't want to have to depend on helping hands though.


----------



## cturner

I'm sure TFG would be willing to give a hand!!! :thumb:


----------



## AF_medic

I'd help, if I was even remotely close to you that is. :lol: It's always easier offering to help when there isn't a chance of being picked


----------



## chefkeith

I think I might be done adding cement to the outside of the island. I think I can just paint on the rest of the colors. Here's the latest pic-








Maybe I'll add one last coat of cement to the inside of the cove though.

I'm glad that this project has been moving slow because really there is not much else to do now with the cold weather and all the snow on the ground. (Look at my weather clock above the island, it's 6 F degrees outside).


----------



## chefkeith

Ansphire said:


> Hey man.. I can't wait to see this done.. Football is over, cichlids are young.. and the mets don't start in a few months..... What else am I gonna do besides looking at your proyect??


I think I'll stretch this project out until April 3rd, Opening day.


----------



## chefkeith

I added some black color. It should fade a bit when it dries.


----------



## chefkeith

I added some buff color. I don't know if this is starting to look better or worse. I wish I had more colors to work with. I have black, brown, buff (orange), and red. I guess if algae covers most of this thing it won't matter much anyways.


----------



## chefkeith

I went with some brown and buff this time. This thing is about done. I think I might move on to the acrylic now.


----------



## chefkeith

I moved my island. It was rather easy to move also. I just put a 7ft x 1ft piece of plywood under it then slid it over to the other side of the fishroom. Now I got a clear work area again for routing the acrylic.










and the router


----------



## chefkeith

I routed my 1st edge. I probably should of practiced with a side that didn't matter, but I wasn't thinking-










The top piece is shop cut with saw blade marks, the bottom piece is the one I just routed.








I really don't see much difference, but the bottom piece feels much smoother though. It's not perfect though. I think I need to go buy a proper straight edge, like
this one-








http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... lpage=none
To be continued.


----------



## chefkeith

Well, I went out and got the 100" cutting guide.









but now the routing has hit a snag. The results I'm getting now are very unsatisfactory (the censors won't let me say what I really want to).









Maybe the brand new bit I got has already went bad or maybe I was just moving too slow. Ah, screw this. I'm done for Today. Off to the beer store.
I might just skip the rest of the routing and just build the tank. The shop cut saw blade marks arn't that bad IMO.


----------



## chefkeith

I put the Island back up on the stand to take some more pics and video.









Here's the left side-









Here's the right side-









Here's the video (it's 14mb, so it might take awhile for it to load)-
Click here to watch a close-up of Loach-Island

The same video 
http://s24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/c ... re1941.flv


----------



## illy-d

Nice Island... Shame about the beer! (Light Beer?  )


----------



## chefkeith

Yeah, of coarse I'd rather have a few pints of Guinness, but this Labatt Blue light ain't too bad either.


----------



## fabulousfat5

I'm with illy... light beer sucks LOL.


----------



## apac

if you want to add more variation of colur to the background and wood roots try 'dry brushing'. use varying tones of black,greys, browns and even maybe beiges. use a soft brush, dip in paint and then wipe most of the paint off the brush on some newspaper. then 'dust' the brush VERY lightly over the surface of the roots and it will catch on and create texture on your sculpted roots and create highlights or shadows (depending on what colour). tread very carfully at first by only using the lightest application with hardly any paint on the brush(or experiment on some spare pieces), oh, and make sure that the brush is always dry before you start any dusting, as water/solvent on the brush will obviously only dilute the paint and it will not catch on the textured surface in the same way. (just a thought on the painting process, but i'm sure you know all this already). 
as i can see in the photos the trick to painting 3D objects is to paint on the shadows and highlights as they are created by light.
finally, this is an amazing project, A+ :wink:


----------



## davidhusker

very nice progress. good luck with the acrylic!


----------



## Adams2156

thats amazing :thumb:


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## chefkeith

Thanks all.

No updates.
It might be another week before I get back to building the tank because I'm having hardware issues with both of my computers right now. I have a few programs to write this week also. Hopefully I keep my sanity and don't have to buy a new system.


----------



## chefkeith

I lost my sanity this week and bought a new computer yesterday. Go figure.


----------



## chefkeith

I think I stumbled upon a way to add more 3d and color depth. I smoothed out some of the rough spots and brush marks on the island with a chisel. The spots that I smoothed out look weathered and kind of like wood grain, since the under layers of the cement were a lighter color than the top coats. It's a very cool effect.

Here's more pics-
The right side looks alot better









The left side still looks like **** though. 









Overall it's a mild improvement. 









I'm taking a programming class right now and that's taking all my free time, so
I'm not sure when I'll start building the tank. I don't think I'll be routing the edges since I was getting such poor results. In the past, I'd just use an orbital sander to prep the edges on the acrylic. I'll probably just do that since it has worked for me before and it takes much less time and effort.


----------



## AF_medic

it really does look great!  :thumb: I am just afraid that all of your hard work will be quickly covered in a thick layer of lush algae! :? then you won't even be able to see that cool effect you came up with. but again, it looks awesome! :thumb:


----------



## davidhusker

well it all wont be since it all will not be underwater, plus algae sometimes takes a while or may not even grow depending on lighting etc. Especially with fast moving waters. Looks good, now get the acrylic box made...


----------



## chefkeith

I though this thread disappeared. Had to go back a few days to find it. :x

I have the next 11 days off  and am leaving town Tomorrow for a weekend bowling tournament. I hope to get the tank built soon after I get back. I would start building the jigs for the tank now, but the batteries on my cordless drill are shot, and I don't want to spend any money on this project until I get back from my bowling trip.

My project "due" date is still April 3rd, (opening day for MLB baseball). So I'm still right on schedule. lol. :lol: The cement island has had about a month to cure, so I'm real happy that this step didn't get rushed. I'll give the tank 1 week to cure after it's put together, then I'lll test it for leaks.

After that, I'll add the island and let it finish curing underwater. The tank's water will have to pass all my Water Quality Tests before I add any fish. I'll be doing TDS, kH, gH, pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate tests. I will put snails in the tank to help cycle it though. I'll also be putting 2 well established canister filters (Filstar XP3 and XP2 that are 3-4 years old) on the tank.

Well, that's my game plan. I hope to do some serious tank building next week. :roll:


----------



## cturner

woo hooo!!! :thumb:


----------



## j rice

Cool , build me a water bridge when you are all done! :lol:


----------



## TheFishGuy

j rice said:


> Cool , build me a water bridge when you are all done! :lol:


I just built two out of an old siphon tube and some 2" pvc 90's, they're awesome! :lol: They're connecting two 20 highs and a 10 gallon :lol: No where near as cool as his :?


----------



## Maxi

That looks nice! Can't wait to see the full completion of the project!


----------



## chefkeith

My back was real sore after the bowling tournament, so I didn't get anything done on this project during my time off. I feel embarrassed  about my lack of progress and slowlessness. I'm not sure when I'll get this tank built now. I'm thinking about waiting until the weather is warm so I can build the tank outdoors. That would be the best thing to do. My fish are doing fine in the tanks that they are in, so I'm obviously in no big hurry to get the new tank built. As long as everything is built correctly at the end of this project, I'll be happy and my fish should be happy too. 
There are other things I'd like to do before the tank is built also. I have been thinking about bulking up the stand because it looks kind of weak IMO. Also I'd like to put more piers and tighten the shim's on the existing piers underneath the flooring in the fishroom. To do that I'd need to go into the crawl space, which isn't easy for a big guy like me to do. I'd definately want it to be warmer and drier when I do this.

It might be 4-6 weeks before it's dry and warm enough outside. So the new due date is now June 1st. My eye's are rolling again :roll:


----------



## peterl

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!

This is like waiting for the new season of Entourage to start!


----------



## davidhusker




----------



## imusuallyuseless

That sucks, looks like more waiting.


----------



## kingdave

No fair, you can't wear my crown! I am the "King of Unfinished Projects" Oh wait, maybe you should wear my crown for a while so I can finally finish MY tank


----------



## Evets

I just recently joined this forum and I spent who knows how long reading all the posts. This is an amazing project and I am really impressed with what you have been able to accomplish by yourself. It looks great. So um.. now I must ask you to stop making excuses and finish the tank b/c I really expected by the time I got to the end of the thread to see a finished product.

GET TO WORK CHEF!


----------



## chefkeith

I think I tore my rotator cuff Yesterday. I can't lift my right arm higher than my chest without alot of pain. I have no option, but to wait until my all injuries are healed. With a bad back and only one good arm, it will be difficult for me just to keep up with water changes and filter maintenance. Thank god for pain meds and beer.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Are you a chef or a army ranger or something??? Geeze man you're beating the snot out of yourself lately!


----------



## chefkeith

I guess I'm just getting old. A few years ago, I had to give up my career as a chef because of back problems. Then I had to give up golfing because of problems with my left shoulder. Now my right shoulder is bad.... what's next.


----------



## TheFishGuy

Sorry man..... That's horrible....


----------



## Ansphire

Sorry to hear that.. we are all anxiously awayting the completion of your project. Take a couple days rest, don't do anything, avoid other injuries.

We will wait patiently. :wink:


----------



## TheFishGuy

Oh, now everyones all nice..... :lol: :lol:


----------



## Ansphire

We want to see that proyect!!!!!!! :x

And the only way is if he feels better.. what are we supposed to do.. tell him:

NO.. get over yourself and finish it!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ok.. Maybe I was too nice.... Ill stick to:

Hey man.. sorry to hear that, hope you get better. :thumb:


----------



## JJ'sGirl

:lol: :lol: good one! :lol:


----------



## Evets

nah, i'm not falling for it... **** man... michigan is too far.. I know we have to have some members up that way that could help lol... I really want to see this project finished and someone has to make the sacrifice!! chef, g'luck w/ your injuries..time to leave the weekend rugby games alone til you finish this tank!


----------



## chefkeith

I feel alot better now and am off the pain meds.

I'm sorry, but I'm still in no hurry to get this new tank project done and it is at the bottom of my priorities list. I just started another programming class last week. This class ends in 7 weeks, so we'll see what happens then.

I just need to say that Programming is extremely important to me and my future. Some of the programs I'm writing will be ground breaking to our hobby. So far, I have a water quality program and a material thickness calculator for building tanks. I have more planned also. We'll all be greatly rewarded after I learn this stuff, then have the programs working and published on the internet.

I'm actually using the tank stand that this new tank will be at as a large computer station for the time being. I already took the concrete island out of my fishroom and put it into my garage. I just wheeled it out on a hand truck. So now I have lots more space for my computers and books. Which is something you all probably don't want to hear.

Have some patience please.


----------



## peterl

Hope the class is going well, chefkeith!

Can't wait for the project to start again.

Peter


----------



## chefkeith

Thanks Peterl.
I've been getting the bug to get this tank built.

Less than 2 weeks left in the programming class. I might be done with all the homework this weekend, then all I have left to do is the the final exam. Nothing will be stopping me from building the tank after that.


----------



## sssage

let the summer projects begin!


----------



## chefkeith

I finished my programming class Today, so the project will finally resume now. I hope to have the tank built and up and running by the end of the month. First, I'm going to build a large workbench outside so that I can build the tank on it. I'll try to get all the lumber I need, then build the workbench and the tank jigs.


----------



## Maxi




----------



## Maxi




----------



## AF_medic

:thumb:


----------



## Matt S

man what a job but theres no way it won't pay off cant wait to see all if it. is there anyway u could post some pics of the loaches you'll be putting in?


----------



## jimmymac

*chefkeith*
Awesome, waiting for pics. No pressure, just waiting lol


----------



## chefkeith

I have some doubts about the island. I'm afraid it might add alot of hardness to the water. If I can't get that down, I'll have to scrap it. But from what I here, after I cycle the tank, the bacteria will seal the cement, keeping it from leaching. I hope that's how it goes. Really I'll just be glad to see fish in the tank, with or without the big cement island. I'm coming to the reality that this was not just a crazy idea, but kind of stupid also. It was alot fun building the island though. I'd like to try it again maybe next winter, but build it in 2 or 3 pieces. 1st I'd like to see how this big island works out though.

Here's a pic of my clown loaches-


----------



## lomax

cool

you have a fish mix like my old 750g :lol: :lol: :lol:

i had over 100 rainbow fish, but only 8 clownfish. that mixed in with lots of tang cichlids that mostly hang around the rock walls.


----------



## peterl

chefkeith said:


> Really I'll just be glad to see fish in the tank, with or without the big cement island. I'm coming to the reality that this was not just a crazy idea, but kind of stupid also. It was alot fun building the island though.


Nonsense!!

It was a *great* idea whose time has not yet come!


----------



## Matt S

about how many loaches do u really have? they'll love the root tangles :thumb:


----------



## chefkeith

I have 50 clown loaches. 25 of them are about 2". The rest are 4 to 5"'s.


----------



## chefkeith

I got the workbench built Today. I didn't spend any $ on it and I just used scrap lumber. I didn't build a beefy one, just something strong enough to build the aquarium on. Afterwords I'll be using it as a bbq buffet table. It's 36" high x 8ft long, but it's only 20" wide, so it's not even big enough or strong enough for doing a test fill on the aquarium after I build it.


----------



## loftyguy

I can't wait to see it done


----------



## chefkeith

I got the one of the pinless jigs built. I'll be building 2 of them. Pic's-

I put a slot in it so that I can adjust the height.

















How it works- I set the gap height with razor blades between the 2 pieces of acrylic. Then clamp the acrylic to the jig. Then pull the razor blades out. Then I'll run the solvent cement in the joint. Then I'll loosen the clamp to let gravity work, then just leave the clamp on until the cement is dry.










































If it wasn't raining, I'd probably try joining the 1st piece.


----------



## AF_medic

looks like a pretty good method, it certainly sounds better than the method where you put pins along the whole length, and try to simultaneously run your seam of sealant while removing your pins at the same time.

can't wait to see your progress, acrylic builds always fascinate me.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Glad to see some progress


----------



## FeatherfinFan

Looking good Keith, definately interested in hearing how well they work, should be a good alternative to pins


----------



## chefkeith

This was how I prepped the edges since my routing experience went bad. I used an orbital sander with a 220 grit sand paper. My jigs worked great for setting this up.









I ran 6-10 passes on each edge fast and lightly with orbital sander on full speed.









The before pic with the saw marks-









Right After sanding-









Then I cleaned it up with a ball of cotton and some rubbing alcohol-









This next step is what I usually hate most- removing the paper masking, but once again my jigs made this much easier. 









I used a razor blade scraper for cutting the paper masking off. 









That worked out pretty good.









Then I had to cut the the 2" perimeter bracing down to size. Once again the jigs came in handy.


----------



## chefkeith

Now time to cement my 1st joint, which is the perimeter bracing to the side.

I spent about 30 minutes getting this set-up. It turns out that the work bench I built warped some in the past few days because I left it out in the rain. So I'm not working on a perfectly flat table. Because the table wasn't flat, there was no way I could get the gap spacing set properly without using some pins. So I used 3 pins. Still the jigs served there purpose of keeping everying in place.



















Here's a video of me bonding the seam. (Note my hand is shaking. Geez.)


Here's is the joint after I cemented it. It turned out perfect. Not 1 bubble.


----------



## chefkeith

I cemented the other side to the perimeter bracing and I got a much better video than the previous one. I use my free hand to take the video this time.



I also uploaded it at putfile.com, it might be higher quality there-
Click here to watch Bonding-Acrylic-2

Here's another link to the 1st video at putfile.com-
Click here to watch Bonding-Acrylic-


----------



## chefkeith

I put some thick oak plywood on the workbench so that the workspace is flatter. It's 1000x better now. It's still not perfect though, but it's alot better than before. 









Here's a few pic's of the jigs holding an 8ft piece of acrylic.

















I stopped taking pic's at this point. Same stuff as before. Prepping acrylic is very boring.
Also I got the 1st 8ft seam cemented. It's Perimeter bracing and I used pins again.

Here's a link to a video of me bonding an 8 ft seam. I had a friend do the camera work this time. (*Warning* there is some explicit language in the video).

Click here to watch bonding-acrylic-3---8-ft-seam

I should be able to finish this tank up this week. The weather forcast is real good up to Friday.


----------



## chefkeith

I finished prepping all the acrylic and cementing all the perimeter bracing.
A few more pic's-

Here's me cleaning the edges with rubbing alcohol.









He's the final 8ft length of perimeter bracing-









and the video (long and boring)-
Click here to watch Arcylic-Bonding-4-other-8-ft-seam
Pulling the pins-
Click here to watch Pulling-Pins-from-8-ft--Acrylic-Seam


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Keep it up :thumb:


----------



## chefkeith

Here's a pic of the left side of the tank being set-up.









the right side.









and a pic of both sides set-up and ready to be cemented in place. The jigs worked nicely for this.









Also I finished cementing the 2 sides to back panel-
Here's the exciting video footage. (too bad the camera batteries went dead when I was pulling the pins :zz: )
Click here to watch DIY-Acrylic-Aquarium---Cementing-both-sides


----------



## chefkeith

I screwed up a little. I put on some reinforcement braces on the perimeter brace the wrong way. uhg. I even took pic's of the mistake.

















I pulled them off when the cement was setting. Then used weld-on #16 in combination with weld-on 4 and to put them back on. The results weren't pretty, but it should hold.

















I'm not too happy about this, but If I am going to make mistakes, this was a good place for it, in the back of the tank where I'll never see it.


----------



## chefkeith

I finished the front side seams. 
Pics-


















And the video (it turned out very blurry)
Click here to watch Diy-Acrylic-Aquarium-2---Cementing-the-front-sides

I Only have the 2 more reinforcement braces and bottom seam left to do now. (The cross bracing will be bolted in so that I can put the island in the tank).

The only snag I see is that I'll have to sand down some of the bottom sides 1st because it's a little bit uneven. 








This uneveness is the disadvantage of cementing the perimeter bracing seams before the bottom seams. The main reasons I did the perimeter bracing 1st was so that the 8ft pieces would be sturdier and could be moved around easier, also so that I could use my so called pinless jigs. Of coarse it didn't turn out to be pinless, just fewer pins because my workbench and acrylic wasn't
flat enough, but still the jigs made the whole process much easier.


----------



## FeatherfinFan

Keith, what's a DIY project without a few snags  Thanks for such great detail along the way, those videos should be very helpful for those unfamiliar w/ acrylic projects. Look forward to all the upcoming details


----------



## chefkeith

well, the bottom seam turned out half terrible. I spent about 2 hours setting up all the shims and pins, then I started cementing. I though everything would be OK, but some of the gaps were too large in some places and the cement wasn't filling it in seam. Then I started pulling pins, and adding more cement as I went around. Then my applicator was running out of cement. To top it off my neighboors were around distracting me also (smoking pot or doing something stupid like that). It was totally frustrating, but I kept it together and tried my best. The root of the problem was that the workbench wasn't flat. I should of done this indoors on my flat tank stand. I'm pretty bummed. I think I can fix it so it doesn't leak, but the bottom seams will still look like dog meat.

I guess I'll put a bead of weld-on 16 in the bad spots, then go over the whole thing with silicone. I've siliconed all my acrylic tanks in the past. IME, the silicone will hold for about 2-3 years on acrylic.

I'll be back with some pic's.


----------



## chefkeith

Here's some pic's-
There are about 13 areas that looked not so good. Here's a few of them-









































Here's one of the better areas.









Here's a pic of on of the side seams that I done Yesterday. That went well.









Does anyone want to see the video's of the bottom seam or are the pic's good enough to tell the story?

I'll try the weld-on 16 thing now.


----------



## chefkeith

I set up the tank on an angle so that the weld-on #16 would seap into any voids.








I layed in a small fillet of the stuff on all the sides. This should do the trick.









I'll skip putting any silicone on the seams for now. In 2 days I'll test fill the tank in the fishroom.


----------



## AF_medic

sweet, it looks like it'll hold water!


----------



## 20 20

chefkeith said:


> In 2 days I'll test fill the tank in the fishroom.


Wouldn't it be a tad safer to test it outside?


----------



## chefkeith

Outside would be safer, but the workbench ain't strong enough for a test fill.

Here's a pic of the tank and workbench-


----------



## chefkeith

I've been thinking more about how I'm going to round the inside corners of the tank.
This is the original design- 









Plan A is that I take a 5 gallon bucket, cut off the ridges, and cut it into pie shaped quarters. Then put a pie shaped quarter piece in each corner, then cover the bottom part of the bucket with sand and rocks to keep it from moving. I wonder if that would work? I guess it's worth a try. It won't cost me anything. I have a more than a few spare buckets. Only problem I see with this is the asthetics. It might be very ugly, but I can't think of a better way to round the corner. The original plan was to use acrylic, but it would have to be permanently glued into place, and I don't want that.

Plan B would be to build a rounded corner out of foam/cement, but that would take a 4-6 weeks before it's tank ready. I want something now.

Any suggestions would be welcome.


----------



## bell

you can get large plexiglass tubes from aquatic ecosystems, cut them into 90 degree pieces and make the corners clear.

here you go, up to 6" diameter....
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fus ... 0/cid/1859


----------



## chefkeith

Good idea, but $50+ per ft is a bit expensive, and 6" diameter probably wouldn't be big enough. It would have to be atleast 12" diameter I would think.

I had that idea before, but I squashed it because 12" clear acrylic pipe is $70 per foot. With a Minimum order of 5 feet. Ouch. That's at USPlastics

Keep the good ideas coming though. We'll hit at something sooner or later.


----------



## chefkeith

Since this is an 8ft tank, I could frame it with some oak plywood to hide the curved corners. It would make the front view nicer. I'd still have about a 7ft viewing window.

I could use a black bucket, chop it into quarters, then silicone the pieces into corners.


----------



## Walter

How about some 1/8 inch plexi formed into shape. If you had a round object as a form, you could heat it carefully until it conformed with the object. Strength would not be an issue if there is water on both sides.

Walt


----------



## chefkeith

That's a good idea. I'll probably try that out if plan A don't work. 
How would I heat it? with a blow torch? BBQ? Oven? Hot Water? I don't have a heat gun, but would a heat gun work? I'll have to research this some.


----------



## weightr

This is a nice project, chefkeith... I've been reading in this area for a while.



> I could use a black bucket, chop it into quarters, then silicone the pieces into corners.


A black bucket with a 2 foot diameter, cut in half might work better than the fourths. Each half would naturally sit in each end of your tank.

The 1/8" plexi is a good idea - what about a thinner plastic/plexi that doesn't need to be heated to shape. Just bend and silicon in place. You could even backfill it with sand to keep it from deforming.

You could shape the rounded corners with some of that pond foam stuff I've seen other folks mention. Not sure if it has a curing time like cement, though.

Just a few thoughts...


----------



## Walter

> How would I heat it?


I have often used a heat gun for this, but I have heard that hot water works. I would use a blow dryer. It would take longer, but that just makes it harder to mess up by going too fast. My first thought was to attach small pieces of acrylic where you want the curve to start and to carefully bend a piece of 1/8 plexi into the corner until the edges of the plexi are inside the little blocks. The tension of the plexi trying to flatten back out will hold it in place. This would make it removable and/or replaceable.

Either way the voids would be good places to put intakes or returns and/or pumps for current. I do not recall how you were planning on making current or filtering.

Walt


----------



## jimmymac

Does it have to be rounded? Couldn't you get the same efect with just a straight piece if acrylic angled in each corner? similar to an over flow box in each corner? just a thought.


----------



## chefkeith

I like these idea's alot.

Chopping a 24" bucket would be the best for creating the circluar flow I want and the easiest to install. The problem with it is that the radius will take up 12" of the viewing area on each side of the tank. I'll have to comprimise somewhere. Not sure where yet.

The foam idea is an excellent one too. I could use something like a bucket for a mold to form the curve, then just spray the foam into the empty corner. Then let it cure. I might have to go 1 layer of foam at a time though or it might compress while curing. I could probably make some caves in the foam also. Use some twisty ballons for molding the caves. Then just spray the foam over it. I have one full can of black waterfall foam on my shelf. It would be nice to use it. I'll probably try doing atleast one corner this way and see how it turns out.

Forming the curve out the acrylic is a great idea too. Do you really think 1/8" would be best? 1/16" might be easier to form. I'd like to give this a try.

I'll go shopping this evening at home depot, lowes, meijer, and walmart and see what I can find. I'll probably go with what's better on my wallet, but still I want it to look good and be functional.

When it's all said and done, I'll probably redo the curved corners with foam,pvc elbows, and cement next Winter. That could be a nice Winter project.


----------



## chefkeith

jimmymac- Your killing me here. That's a great idea. That would work real good too.


----------



## chefkeith

I could just use glass also with jimmymac's idea. Definately the easiest solution so far.


----------



## chefkeith

I won't have time to go shopping this evening. I forgot that the Pistons were playing Tonight.

I'm having a friend help me move the aquarium into the fishroom in about an hour. I should be able to test fill it Tommorrow. If that works well, I'll put the Island in it on Saturday.


----------



## jimmymac

LOL, no problem, it just seemed that from the top view of your diagram that a straight piece in each corner would almost give you the same effect. kind of like the shape of one side of a stop sign on each end.


----------



## dsiple

My concern on the bucket idea is the tapering most buckets have. It wouldn't fit flush in the corners.

The idea of the bent plexiglass was my fist thought when reading. Then someone else mentions it first. My second thought was the flat piece in the corner to achieve the effect of the rounded corners.

If you use the foam in the corners, you can disguise the outside somehow to make it look like roots as well, sort of matching the island. I like this idea best because of the caves you can make for hiding spots.

I know you'll put thought into any idea. Thanks for the inspiration.


----------



## chefkeith

Thanks.

here's my late night update-
The tank wouldn't fit through the hallway into the fishroom, so we had to GET it in through the window. Getting the tank in through the window was actually very easy. Sorry, but I didn't get pic's of this.

So now the tank is in the fishroom. I peeled off some of the paper masking and took a pic-









Test fill is getting near. I think there's a chance it might leak. It deserves to leak because I broke the #1 rule. I didn't build the tank on a flat work area. The hack table I built worked for the smaller seams, but I couldn't cheat when I had to do the 20 ft bottom perimeter seam.

Before I do the test fill I still have to fab and bolt on the cross bracing. I'll probably put on 4 cross braces across the top. 
Note to self- Need 4 more stainless bolts.


----------



## chefkeith

I got the cross braces bolted in. Hopefully the bolts don't stress the acrylic much. If I were cementing the braces in place I would of just used 2, but since I'm using bolts I used 4 braces.










Time for the test fill is here. I'll be back shortly.


----------



## chefkeith

Here we go-
I'm using my sump outlet to fill the tank-










1" and no leaks so far.


----------



## chefkeith

It's getting there slowly. I have the python hose filling the tank also now.


----------



## chefkeith

Almost there.


----------



## blairo1

It's more than cool seeing water in this tank.

Man you've come a long, long way! Congrats, if it leaks it leaks, you can fix it. This is a big accomplishment and it's looking great....

I've been following this thread but haven't said anything until now, seeing water go in there after all your work and planning just made me chuckle -

"Good job Chef" :lol:.

:thumb: Now I want to build one....


----------



## chefkeith

Well, it looks like the tank can hold water. 









I guess I can empty it and put the Island in when I get a helping hand. I'll see if I can get some somebody to help Tonight.


----------



## chefkeith

Thanks blairo1. It's fun for me to read back how this progressed. Without this thread it would be a big blur.


----------



## xrockx

Looks great man.

Just out of curiosity what are you going to put in this fantastic tank?


----------



## chefkeith

xrockx- Bear with me. I've had a few drinks. 
This new tank will be part of my main tanks connected together with the water bridges. (see the video in my sig.) All my fish will have access to this new river tank. Right now I mostly have just clown loaches and rainbowfish. I haven't purchased any new fish in almost 2 years. So I'll be adding a few more species, but I'm not sure what yet. 
I'm open to suggesions for friendly fish that I could add.


----------



## chefkeith

Quick update-
Earlier in the night, my friend helped me put the island in the tank-










I'll fill the tank back up with water when I'm sober.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Congrats on the sucessful test fill :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


----------



## chefkeith

When filling the tank back up with water, to my surprise the island started floating when the tank was about half full. I put a few buckets of sand in the center of the island to weight it down (Thanks Bell for that great idea). I didn't have enough sand though, so I wedged some rocks between the island and the center braces.

Pics-

















The tank is full now.









I ended up putting in the bucket quarters in each corner. It works and it was free.










I got the water pumps running now too.
This is turning out great. I'm so happy.
Here' a movie of the water flow-
Click here to watch New-river-tank-demo

I'll have More for you all later- I have a Texas Hold-em game to goto now.


----------



## Matt S

wow awesome flow i see the curved corners worked out great.


----------



## ejhart

Hey there chef I've been following your post for a little while now and I just wanted to say that I think your a very creative and talented artist. I also wanted to mention that maybe you could (for the corners) get a clear bucket/trashcan from wal-mart or somewhere, or maybe even a large clear or semi clear Tupperware container. Just thought it would be something to look into if the buckets get to be too much of an eye sore. Anyway great job on the tank and I really hope you and your fish enjoy it for a long time.


----------



## chefkeith

My main concern now is the concrete island. I won't add any fish to this tank until the concrete is sealed. Mcdaphnia has mentioned a few times, that nitrifying bacteria will seal the concrete and keep it from leaching any bad stuff. If this works, I estimate that it will take about 2-4 weeks for the tank and island to cycle and for the concrete to get sealed. The island with all it's surface area and high water flow will provide alot of biofiltration, I think. :roll:

Water parameters right now-
River tank water
pH is 10.3
TDS is 195.

Source tap water-
pH -7.4
TDS- 135

I'd probably do a 100% water change Tomorrow.

When the tank water is almost the same as the source water, I'll start adding some fish to the tank.


----------



## chefkeith

Thanks for comments all.


----------



## chefkeith

I got some advice to try the tank without the curved corners, so I removed them, and the water flow is almost just as good. I'll be ******. There are just alot more eddies without the curved corners. So I'll be going without them for now.

Water parameters are holding steady.
pH is still 10.3
TDS is still 195.

So I'm going to empty the tank and refill now.


----------



## jimmymac

Awesome job C.K., I was actually suprised, the bucket 1/4,s really did work well. What if you painted them black with that new spray paint that bonds to plastic?


----------



## chefkeith

Water parameters immediately after 100% water change-

pH- 7.13
TDS- 130


----------



## illy-d

Are you going to do a 'fishless cycle' to help speed up the growth of nitrifying bacteria?

Awesome job by the way...

As for going with or without the rounded corners - why not make the final decision after you have some fish in the tank - see if they like the back eddies!


----------



## chefkeith

illy-d said:


> Are you going to do a 'fishless cycle' to help speed up the growth of nitrifying bacteria?
> 
> Awesome job by the way...
> 
> As for going with or without the rounded corners - why not make the final decision after you have some fish in the tank - see if they like the back eddies!


illy-d
I'll start adding ammonia and do a fishless cycle after a few more concrete rinses. I'll try this without using any filters. I'll just use the poweheads.

Thanks.

Will do, I'll let the fish make the final decision with the rounded corners.


----------



## chefkeith

Current water parameters-

pH- 9.15
TDS- 135. Interesting that the TDS didn't go up, but the pH did.

I'd do another 100% water change now.


----------



## chefkeith

Did the water change. 
same starting point as before.
pH- 7.1
TDS - 130


----------



## chefkeith

Update- 
I just added ammonia at 5ppm to the tank to jump start the cycling.

------------------------------

I never did tell you all how I put the island into the tank. It turned out to be very simple.

I layed a blanket down on the floor in front of the tank. Then my friend and I put the island on top of the blanket. Then we lifted the island with the blanket and then lowered the island into the tank. Then just lifted the island a little to get the blanket out of the tank.


----------



## chefkeith

My calculations.

The island displaces about 15 gallons of water
The sand displaces about 5 gallons of water
The actual volume of the tank is 153 gallons
That gives me 9.53 gallons of water per inch of height. 
The water height is 1.75" from the top of the tank or 14.25 total.
So that's 139 gallons of water the tank holds.
Minus the island/sand displacement, the tank actual holds about 118 gallons of water, and about 30 gallons of that is inside the island.

For my fishless cycle-

I used 2.5 grams of ammonia or a 1/2 teaspoon. 
That's 5.5 ppm of ammonia @ 118 gallons


----------



## chefkeith

I'm not sure if my calculations were right. My AP ammonia test kit is giving me a 0 ammonia reading.


----------



## chefkeith

My Seachem Total Ammonia Test kit is giving me a reading of about 4-6ppm. So I guess I'm in business.


----------



## chefkeith

I've never done a fishless cycle before. Does anyone know if it would help if I squeezed out the sponges from a canister filter into this new tank? I'll give this a try. It probably can't hurt.


----------



## chefkeith

I just emptied the canister, rinsed off the biomedia baskets, and squeezed off all the sponges inside the new tank. The tank is filthy now. I'll probably do a 100% water change in 2 days, then repeat this with a different canister filter.


----------



## AF_medic

quick question, I might have missed this in one of your earlier posts, but how did you keep the island from floating? did I see you say that your wedged it down? doesn't sound like a very permanent solution to me, or did you get more sand to add to it? just a little worried about that thing breaking loose and floating around gouging your new acrylic.


----------



## orcy

if your planning a 100% water change, you are wasting your time trying to cycle the tank. once the cycle starts, no water changes till its finished, then 25% water change and add the fish.

if your still trying to get the pH down as the concrete cures, then i wouldn't bother trying to start the cycle till you have done 4 or 5 complete water changes over a couple of weeks and the pH starts to stay at least under the sorts of conditions you want for the fish you want to keep

cheers


----------



## chefkeith

AF_medic said:


> quick question, I might have missed this in one of your earlier posts, but how did you keep the island from floating? did I see you say that your wedged it down? doesn't sound like a very permanent solution to me, or did you get more sand to add to it? just a little worried about that thing breaking loose and floating around gouging your new acrylic.


I didn't change anything. There's about 50#'s of sand in the island and I have some slate on top of the island wedged between the center braces. I'll add more sand when the island is sealed with bacteria.


----------



## chefkeith

orcy said:


> if your planning a 100% water change, you are wasting your time trying to cycle the tank. once the cycle starts, no water changes till its finished, then 25% water change and add the fish.
> 
> if your still trying to get the pH down as the concrete cures, then i wouldn't bother trying to start the cycle till you have done 4 or 5 complete water changes over a couple of weeks and the pH starts to stay at least under the sorts of conditions you want for the fish you want to keep
> 
> cheers


This probably won't make sense, but I'm not really trying to fully cycle the tank yet. I'm just trying to seal the concrete with the initial colonies of bacteria ASAP. I think Maybe I'm just killing 2 birds with one stone, and making the process quicker. There is no need to fully cycle this tank yet. 
I already have established canister filters that I'm running on my main tanks. 2 of those canisters will be moved over to this new tank after I add the water-bridge. This system will be 3 tanks. A 190, a 85, and this new tank which is 160 gallons. That's about 435 gallons total. Plus I have the 95 gallon sump/reservoir for a Continuos Drip Water Change System. This water change system is very nice. I've had it running for a few months now. It keeps the nitrates extremely low and the TDS within a few ppm of my tap water. Water changes take care of themselves. I just have to add water to the sump to keep it from going empty (The main tank has an overflow that leads to a drainpipe). Also I have a UV sterilizer that is connected to a 600 gph pump. This is where the flow through the water-brdges from tank to tank to tank will come from. All the tanks will have the exact same water conditions.
I still have some work to do on the tank stands before I add the water-bridge for this though.


----------



## blairo1

Chef -

If you are doing 100% WC's with dechlorinated water and you are adding ammonia after each change at the rates you gave us, then the cycle will continue.

Yes, you are removing the source of ammonia for the bacteria with those 100% changes, but this is for no more than the length of time it takes you to do the WC and add your ammonia back in at the amounts pre water change.

Therefore the bacteria always has a supply of food, you are simply affecting the pH, TDS, GH and KH, the bacteria will continue to populate so long as you continue to add ammonia - the bacteria aren't in the water, they're on the glass, island, filters etc.

I don't see a fault in your method at all. Time consuming maybe :lol:.


----------



## Walter

Why not just put the bucket corners (or something else) in the rear corners? This would give better current than nothing and still not obstruct the view from the front.

Walt


----------



## chefkeith

Current Water Parameters-
pH- 8.91
TDS- 141
Temp - 79.7


----------



## chefkeith

Walt- That's a good idea. I'll probably do that. I have the rounded corners in right now.

blairo1- Thanks for info. I'm not sure of a better alternative way. If I wait for the pH to drop on it's own, I might be waiting forever. I made some caves out of concrete before and soaked them in a tub of water for for about 1 year (doing weekly water changes) waiting for the pH to go down. I was bummed, the pH never did go down to where I wanted it, so I ended up never using the caves.


----------



## peterl

Great job, chefkeith!

This thread has been a blast to follow!! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


----------



## chefkeith

thanks peterl.
----------------
Current parameters-
pH- 9.04
TDS- 147.
Something is wronge with my Seachem Nitrite/nitrate test kit. The nitrite regent has turned black for some reason. I haven't used it in a few years. Maybe these things have an expiration date. I'll get a new test kit later.

Anyways, time for another water change. I'll use dechlored water from my sump/fresh water reservoir for the change.

I'll dump and rinse another canister filter into the tank also. Then add more ammonia.


----------



## chefkeith

Current Water Parameter (24 hours after another 100% water change)
pH- 8.34
TDS- 130

pH is going down steadily.


----------



## xrockx

This maybe a dumb question, but what is TDS?


----------



## xaos

Total Dissolved Solids


----------



## chefkeith

TDS is the Total Dissolved Solids. It's a measure of the mineral levels or conductivity of water. Pure water will have a TDS of 0. Freshwater Tropical Fish tanks usually have a TDS of 50 to 200. African Cichlid tank usually have a TDS around 300 - 500. Marine Salt water tank's the TDS is over 5000.

further reading-
http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/month ... 00361.html
http://www.msnusers.com/LyreTailsAquarium/osmosis.msnw
http://www.tdsmeter.com/abouttds_aquaculture.html


----------



## chefkeith

Today's water parameters-
pH - 8.72
TDS - 143

Yawn.

The ammonia level has dropped to about 0.3, so I've redosed with Ammonia.
Nitrates are 0.

Seachem is sending me a new reagent for my nitrite test kit. So I'll just wait for that.


----------



## chefkeith

Current water parameters-

pH- 8.12
TDS- 157

The pH has dropped .6 points in last 24 hours. Interesting.

There is a thin coat of slime of some tubing inside the tank. The concrete feels a little slimey also. The water is crystal clear.

I did throw a few very small plants inside the tank 2 days ago (because I broke down a 10 gallon tank). A few snails hyjacked there way into the tank also.

I've had lighting on the tank 12 hours per day. Just 55 watts of cp lights.


----------



## Matt S

good sounds like the island might work if the ph is still dropping but what ph are you aiming for?


----------



## chefkeith

The pH range needs to be the almost the same as my main tanks. From 6.8 at night to 7.4 during photo periods. 7.4- 7.6 would be probable because this is a high water flow, high O2, low CO2, and low light tank. I'm not sure how this new tank will work though because their are also low water flow areas in the cove that might allow CO2 build-up.

The kH of my tap water is about 4 dkh, so the pH fluxuates quite a bit in my main tanks because of the CO2 exchange from plants/algae. The pH dropping .6 then going back up is normal in my main tanks.

The pH has went up to 8.24 since I turned the lighting on about an hour ago. So I guess there is a good amount of CO2 exchange at this point.

I'm also looking for a steady TDS. If it keeps going up, I won't be adding any fish to the tank. I don't want the concrete leaching anything.


----------



## bell

be patient.....bio systems sometimes take a while to stabilize 

throw some feeder goldfish in there......they're disposable and will help establish the system, maybe 2 dozen to start.


----------



## chefkeith

Bell-. I'd do that if I kept Oscars, but since loaches are very prone to parasite outbreaks, I think Fishless cycling is the way. I've been adding ammonia from the bottle and dumping dirty canister filters into this tank. This should be just as good or better than throwing a few dozen feeders in there. Thanks for your input though. I like the way you think.


----------



## maseyferguson05

chefkeith said:


> Bell-. I'd do that if I kept Oscars, but since loaches are very prone to parasite outbreaks, I think Fishless cycling is the way. I've been adding ammonia from the bottle and dumping dirty canister filters into this tank. This should be just as good or better than throwing a few dozen feeders in there. Thanks for your input though. I like the way you think.


Any surfactants in the Ammonia that could be causing the rise in TDS?


----------



## chefkeith

It's just clear ammonia.

Most everything is better than expected right now. Bacteria is colonizing, the pH seems to be leveling off, and the TDS isn't bad considering that I have about 100 pounds of concrete in the tank. I've only had water in the tank for 1 week. My initial thought was it would be 2-4 weeks before I could add any fish. I know it just needs time.

I'll keep on tracking the water parameters so that we all can see the progress.


----------



## xrockx

How's it coming along?


----------



## chefkeith

It's the 11th day since I added the island and water to the tank.

I did a few water changes Yesterday.

pH is holding steading at about 8.26

TDS is raising about 5 ppm per day because of the island and/or evaporation.

Thanks MaseyF for your comment. I looked into it. I checked the TDS before and after added ammonia. For whatever reason the ammonia raises the TDS about 5 ppm per every .5 teaspoons added to the tank.

In the 5 days I didn't do any water changes, I added 2.5 teaspoons of ammonia (.5 teas each day) and the TDS went from 122 to 180.


----------



## Matt S

hey chefkeith i was just wondering have you tried adding any of the stuff that can lower the ph? maybe you could use some peat moss to help lower it for a while. or some of the liquid additives to put in the tank to help lower just to help the ph lower a bit faster. just an idea but a tank that big it might not work much.


----------



## imusuallyuseless

Interesting...


----------



## chefkeith

Matt S said:


> hey chefkeith i was just wondering have you tried adding any of the stuff that can lower the ph? maybe you could use some peat moss to help lower it for a while. or some of the liquid additives to put in the tank to help lower just to help the ph lower a bit faster. just an idea but a tank that big it might not work much.


I haven't.

If I go a few weeks without any progress, I'll use your advice. Thanks.
For now, I don't want to mask the pH readings. I'd like to keep the results I'm tracking as accurate as possible.


----------



## Cursor

Are you putting an overflow on this tank? How does the overflow work with the water bridges?


----------



## chefkeith

I built the overflow outside of the tank already. I just have to add a siphon hose to the tank and run it to the overflow.

Here's a pic-









Here's a thread I started about the drip system I have-
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=140332

edit- 
actually, I need to raise the height of the overflow hub and modify the aquarium stands under the other tanks to make it all work. Or else this new tank will flood everything. That should be fun.


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## aoscar

I'm new here but fasinating project, I would suggest removing the island and brushing it w silicone, let that cure then replace in tank. never tried anything like this myself, but have read of quite a few people doing so.


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## chefkeith

It's been another week. Did a water change about 24 hours ago.

Water Parameters (click to enlarge)-









Not sure what to think. I'm not too concerned about the pH. The TDS levels are not that bad either. I'll probably add the sand substrate, some driftwood, and a filter soon. If I can keep the ammonia and nitrite levels at 0, I'll be ready to add a few fish.


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## chefkeith

I put 100# of sand in the tank and did another water change. I also moved a couple of canister filters to this tank. I'll move a few fish into the tank when the water is clear. It's still a little murky from when I added the sand. It's quartz pool filter sand. This is really nice sand. I drove all over town looking for this stuff.

I'll get some pics when the tank is clear.


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## illy-d

Yes - more pictures... I'm tired of reading what your water values are, I want pictures... Lots of pictures... I've been following this thread from day one - I think it's awesome, but a little light on pictures... More pictures....

PS: If you get time can you post some pictures of your water bridges as well?


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## chefkeith

Water is clearer now. I only put 4 tetras in the tank. If they're still breathing in a few days I'll add about 12 clown loaches to see how they do.

I got pics-
Here's a pic of the tank with the sand. The hood is from the 95g tank that is being used for a sump underneath. The hood is only 4 ft long, so I'll need to build another 4 ft hood to match and cover the rest of the tank. For now I'm just using some glass panels and styrofoam to cover the rest of the tank.










The right side of the tank-









The center-









The left-









It's very cool to see the tetras swimming in the current. To my surprise they seem to like all the flow. What's nice is that they're not staying in one spot like they did in the other tank. I don't think I can wait a few days now. This is too freaking cool to sit back and wait. I need to net some of clowns when I get done with this post.

random pic's-

































This is the water-bridge that will be going from this new tank to the 85g tank.








Here's the water-bridge that goes from the 85g tank to the 190g tank. It will be atleast a week before I connect it and fill it up. 


















My fishroom movie shows how my water-bridges were all set-up before.


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## chefkeith

I moved 8 clowns to the tank. They went straight for the caves to hide. I'll get some pic's when they journey out for a swim. These fish are very tempermental. They really hate being netted and moved to new surroundings. I wonder how long they sulk.


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## chefkeith

I caught one of the clowns peeking out.








and 2 more








A few went to inspect the pump. Then they vanished again.









I can't wait to see them do some laps around the island. Hopefully I don't have to wait long.


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## xrockx

Looking good!


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## chefkeith

The small clown was the first to venture out up front.




































The clowns are enjoying the flow ALOT behind the island near the pump. Here they are near the pump.










They are all getting use to this tank really fast. I think they already forgot about getting chased and netted by me. They are all up front as I type.


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## chefkeith

chefkeith said:


> This is the water-bridge that will be going from this new tank to the 85g tank. It will be atleast a week before I connect it and fill it up.


Edited.


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## chefkeith

Water Parameters-
pH- 7.42
TDS- 130

Ye ha!! 
Not sure why, but I guess adding the sand, canister filters, and the fish kept the pH from going up. I was expecting the pH to shoot up to about 8.05. I'm very happy it didn't.

The clowns are having a great time. They are not being shy at all.
Here's a video I shot-





or
Click here to watch clown-loach-crazy-train

This tank rules!


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## chefkeith

Here's the latest loach culture music video craze-






or

http://media.putfile.com/Surfing-in-the-Rivertank

Also,
The continuous drip water change system is hooked up to this tank now. I moved most of clowns over to this tank. I'll try to get some more pic's.


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## Matt S

hey whats the biggest clown loach you have seen? they had 4 13 inchers at my lfs they said they were like 6-7 years old they were very pale tho they said after they hit the 10" mark there colors fade as they get big. hope yours get that big! hey have you ever thought of adding some smaller cichlids to your mix? maybe sajicas or firemouths? just a thought. great job with the flow of the tank seemed like the clown loches like swimming against the current instead of with it. the tank seems really awesome now that its almost complete.


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## chefkeith

I'd like to get some Steatocranus casuarius aka African Blockheads or Buffaloheads. 
They are Congo River fish and like lots of current. That's something I can provide.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1353

The largest clown I've seen pictures of are the one's at Capitol Aquarium in Sacramento. They are about 14" long and atleast 40 years old.

The owner at my LFS said he once got some 18" clown loaches. Those are the biggest I know of.

I've never seen any huge ones in person though.


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## Matt S

man i had a couple buffalo head. man were they great. never seen such jerky swimming motions and all the personality is great. thats something you gotta get they are so great!


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## chefkeith

Here's another video-


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## Matt S

lol i thought it was so funny how the tiger barb thinks he is a loach! i would love to do the same type of tank with that kind of flow. its lookin great. cant wait to see some vidoes of your buffalo heads when you get them.


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## blairo1

Hey







,

The tank looks great with all the fish scooting about in it, lol I love how loaches act in a nice big group, the way one darts and that's it, thay all just go for it **** for leather!

Very cool. I also saw the confused Barb :lol:, made me laugh.


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## illy-d

Is the water brindge in place yet? It will be neat to see if the loaches choose to hang out in the current, or if they will lounge in your calmer tanks....


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## andrew14

The buffaloheads look like a great idea to me. Cool tank.


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## chefkeith

The water-bridge isn't up yet. It will be a few more days because I have to break down the other tanks and modify the stands so that they are level with this new tank. I'll do one tank at a time. The hardest part is catching all the fish in them. There is lots of driftwood that the fish lodge into. So I have to be extra carefull when moving the driftwood out the tanks.

I moved 14 of the 2" clowns into the river tank Today. What a pain that was. I was pulling them out of the driftwood by their tails very carefully. So 44 clowns are in the river tank now. Only 5 more small clowns to find and move. These smaller clowns are extra cool to watch when they school together.


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## chefkeith

Thanks everyone.

Matt. - It will probably be about 6 months before I get any new fish. The buffaloheads are at the top of my list though.


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## IrkedCitizen

chefkeith said:


> I put 100# of sand in the tank and did another water change. I also moved a couple of canister filters to this tank. I'll move a few fish into the tank when the water is clear. It's still a little murky from when I added the sand. It's quartz pool filter sand. This is really nice sand. I drove all over town looking for this stuff.
> 
> I'll get some pics when the tank is clear.


Hopefully the quartz sand doesn't scratch your new tank.

Also how are you going to prime that water bridge? It looks like it holds 30 gallons itself.


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## chefkeith

To prime the water -bridge, it's alot easier than you probably think. I just use a siphon hose or a shop-vac to suck out the air.

I done a video about a year ago on how I use to do it- 
Click here to watch waterbridge


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## chefkeith

I'm modifying one of the tank stands now. I hope to have it up by tonight with the water-bridge.


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## OceanDevil

Waterbridges look very cool. Did you build yours?


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## chefkeith

Yes, I custom built the waterbridges out of acrylic.

The stand is modified, the tank is filled, and waterbirdge is running too. The waterbridge isn't impeding the water flow around the island much at all. I was kind of worried that it would.










What's nice about the waterbridge is that water is flowing out the rivertank into this 85g tank, which I'll use to grow plants and algae. So the bridge takes dirty water out of the rivertank to the planted tank and returns clean water through a spray bar. In the planted tank there is a 600 gph pump, with a micron filter, that goes to UV sterilizer, then it goes back to a spraybar in the rivertank. There is excellent flow in the waterbridge.


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## chefkeith

I just learned that my small clowns are hiding underneath the island. I guess something had to wrong because everything was going almost perfect so far. The clowns can do this because a few days ago I propped the island up about 1" off the bottom of the tank with some acrylic shims so that I could put more water in the tank without submergerging the island completely. I thought the sand would fill in underneath the island, but apparently the current from the powerhead pump made a crevasse through the sand.

This isn't a terrible thing. There is no point in fighting them over this. I just need to make it safe for them if that 's where they want to be. I'll just have to make sure they don't get buried somehow. My current idea is to make some caves underneath the island with some pvc pipe. I'm not sure what else I can do. Any suggestions?


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## chefkeith

Here's some pics of behind the island-

powerhead view-









You can see the crevasse slightly to the right.


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## chefkeith

Here's a pic of a clown under the island-


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## Ansphire

These guys look for anywhere to get into... Its like you are dealing with little kids!.

They see a whole and In they go..Thats why some of my fish died in the powerhead or the filter behind the background.

Fill that whole up.. Take care of your kids!!! :lol:


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## TheFishGuy

I've got a lot of catching up to do..... I haven't gotten notified forever.... Tank looks great, you've got a pm...


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## sssage

personally I wouldn't worry too much. My troupe of 12 clowns cram into things all the time. 90% of the time they are smart enough to find their way out. Since you have sand, these clowns are master diggers. So if you fill in the hole with sand, they will just dig it out again. I have a weather loach who loves to live under a ceramic cave. Doesn't matter what I do, he'll dig a hole all over again.


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## chefkeith

I'm worried now. A few days ago one of my small clowns went into the powerhead pump, when I turned the pump on the clown got cut up badly. The clown is still alive though. I'm treating the clown in a q-tank with antibiotics and melafix.

I won't let this happen again. I can connect the pump to the islands spraybars to prevent this. The problem is, with the island proped up about an 1" from the tank bottom, the spraybars spray water out of the tank. I definately need to lower the island again. It was a real bad idea to raise the island. I'll just use some waterfall foam to add about 1" to the top of the island.


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## Koth

Yes! Definitely get the Buffalohead cichlids. I have two in a tank right now, and they are my favourite fish. Tons of personality, and they like to dig around in the sand. Plus, their swimming style is awesome to watch. They're almost like gobies.


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## chefkeith

I lowered the island. Everything is back to normal now.

I can't wait to get the buffaloheads. I'll start searching for some in the upcoming weeks.


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## peterl

How's the project going, chefkeith?


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## pickaxe

WOW! I am new to this hobby and have just come across this thread. I don't know when I started reading, but I know it's past my bedtime. :lol: It was like watching a supence movie....I couldn't wait to see what would happen next. Great job. Very creative. Noticed it looks like a while since your last post, hope everything is OK. I'm sure there are alot of people that would love an update. Keep up the good work!


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## TheFishGuy

Yes, and some fresh pictures too


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## chefkeith

Not many changes. The fish have been kind of sluggish since the fish getting hurt in the pump accident.

I've been fine tuning a few things on the river tank. The plumbing mostly. The water flow around the island hasn't been nearly as good since I plumbed the water pump to a spraybar to keep fish from getting hurt again. Yesterday, I upgraded the plumbing from 1/2" pipe to 1" pipe, so now the flow is a little better, but still not as good as I'd like it to be.

Tank specs- 
Total actual volume of the 160g river tank and the 85g algae tank is about 210 gallons.
The drip rate on the continous water change system is about 1 gph or about 168 gallons per week. I fill up the 95g water change sump about 2x per week.

Water Parameters Today-
water temp - 81.1
TDS- 158
pH- 7.4

The cement is still leaching a little bit into the tank, probably about 1-2 ppm per day. 
I probably should change the drip rate on the water change system to about 1.5 gph. I'll give that a try. Maybe the fish will perk up if I did that.

There is some Good news

The fish that got wounded from inside the pump is almost fully healed now.








The before pic-








I treated the fish in a 5g q tank with Melafix, stress coat, and a few rounds of Maracyn I&II.


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## pickaxe

glad to see he's ok


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## TheFishGuy

Cool good to see he's better, now how's about some more tank shots :lol:

And some more info on how exactly the w/c system works


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## IrkedCitizen

Hey Chef,
Is this the type of cichlid you are wanting?

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2426


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## chefkeith

Steatocranus is the same genus, , but that's not the same as a buffalo head. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1353


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## IrkedCitizen

Oh. Well a guy in my area has some of the ones I posted. He called them a buffalo head.

So I figured I would just ask. Couldn't hurt.


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## fhsfiremanco1

doing alot better i hope so. he is still really pretty tho.


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## chefkeith

TheFishGuy said:


> Cool good to see he's better, now how's about some more tank shots :lol:
> 
> And some more info on how exactly the w/c system works


It's a continous drip system.
The waterchange system consists of a 95g sump that I fill a 2 or 3 times per week. I have a pump in the sump that circulates the water in the sump and sends water to the main tank at a drip rate of about 1.5 gallons per hour. The water from the main tank leaves from an overflow that leads to a drain.

Pix-
Here's a pic of the 85g tank that is connected to the rivertank via water-bridge









Here's a pic of the over-flow, that's behind of the water-bridge.-









Here's on old pic of the overflow when the water-bridge wasn't blocking it.









Here's a pic of the right side river-tank. The canopy hood is from the tank that I'm using as a sump now-








Here's a pic of the sump underneath the river-tank









Here's the left side of the tank, with some fish.









Here' a pic of the new canopy hood I'm working on outside. I'm using Oak and b irch ply for this.








and another pic of the hood. 








So the hoods for the rivertank will consist of 2- 4ft canopy hoods.


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## TheFishGuy

I like pictures


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## chefkeith

I still have alot more work to do in my fishroom. I haven't put any molding or handles on the new hood yet. I haven't added the 190 tank to the rest of the main set-up either. I'd need to break down the 190g tank, then build a new stand for it, then hook everything back up again. I'm not sure when or if I'll ever want to do that. Mostly, I not sure I want to keep the 190g tank. I don't care much for it's size. I'd rather have a tank shallow like my new river tank in that space.

If anyone here wants the 190g tank, PM me. You can have it for real cheap. Say $200. That's just for the tank. I can throw in some some nice pieces of malaysian driftwood also. I have lots of this driftwood in my garage that isn't in use. The stand and hood wouldn't be included. The hood has about $400 worth of cp lights in it and also has big holes cut into it so that it fits the water bridges. The tank is 72"x24"x26"high.

I'd like to build a tank with the same footprint as the 190g, but not nearly as tall, so that I can use this hood again.


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## IrkedCitizen

Dang. You live too far. Hah. Is the 190 acrylic or glass?


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## chefkeith

IrkedCitizen said:


> Dang. You live too far. Hah. Is the 190 acrylic or glass?


It's glass. 1/2" glass in the front/back and 3/8" glass on the sides. The bottom probably has 1/2" or 3/8" tempered glass. The tank was built by Great Lakes Aquariums. I've had the tank for 2 or 3 years. It's in great condition. Only a few minor scratches in the front. The back glass is flawless.

It's cost about $600 when it was new. I'll try E-bay if nobody from here wants it.


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## fishwolfe

could the tank be shipped or would it cost to much?


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## chefkeith

LOL. The tank weights about 250 pounds empty.


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## cturner

I'm sure TFG will be seeing you soon! He needs more tanks for is rescue operations!!


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## tylerj

great thread your tank is realy amazing


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