# HELP! Stocking a 40 gallon Tanganyika Tank



## calleja_aquariums

Ok so my tank is cyling as we speak and i am going to my LFS on thursday to go get fish for my 40g. I was just there yesterday looking and i was talking with a guy that works there about my options for my 40g and he recommended tanganyika cichlid. So now i need to figure out what i want to put in there? I love the yellow labs and i know they are Malawi cichlids but the guy said they should be fine with the tanganyika cichlids.

So i know i want some yellow labs and i like the calvus too! But what else can i put? I want something to interest me and cool to watch?

Also is there specific things i should get for them, like decor?
I have set up some custom caves and have rocks pilled up and some fake plants.. and fine black substrate. I wanted live plants but my lfs said that cichlids will tear the plants up? Is there anything else i can do, like put a bubble wand in, or should i have a lot more rocks? Plus when i go thursday im buying a rock backaround for the tank?

please help! btw its my first time keeping cichlids! oh also what food do they eat?

thanks


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## DJRansome

What are the dimensions of your 40G tank? A 55G is usually a better size for mbuna.

I disagree with the fish store guy, I would not mix mbuna and Tangs. Especially Calvus that are quiet, calm, timid fish.

I find New Life Spectrum (NLS) Cichlid Formula is a good food for all my cichlids.

Decor will depend on the type of fish. Fill the tank with rocks and no plants are ideal for mbuna since they are omnivore/herbivores. A few rock piles and plants are good with Calvus since they are carnivores.


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## Darkside

Calvus would be fine with yellow labs, but that will severely limit your stocking options otherwise.


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## calleja_aquariums

ohhh ok. So what else could i put in there? list some things i can put if i got the calvus and some things i could put if i didnt get the calvus?

thanks


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## Fogelhund

In a 3 ft tank, if you are looking to keep to keep a pair/trio of calvus and some Labs... That really will be it for stocking.


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## calleja_aquariums

Hey fogelhound ! havent heard from you in awhile! Yeah i decided to do tanganyika cichlids because i have more options.

But i have to say im tied... i hear different things from everyone. People say not to listen to people at LFS and then i have the people at my LFS saying not to listen to what you hear on the internet? Maybe i should just experiment? and listen to the guy at the LFS? He sounded like he knew what he was talking about? He wasn't just trying to make money because if he was he would have just let me get what ever i wanted..... But he told me what would be a good mix and what wouldn't, no matter the cost. He also advised me to come back thursday because they are getting a new stock on there Cichlids so i will have more options!

what do you think Fogel? Is big als staff good, and know there stuff or is it a bunch of ****? I think its ligit!

thanks


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## Darkside

Honestly, you'll find more experience on here than you will at Big Al's. I go to the Mississauga location pretty regularly and there are a couple people there with great advice and a lot of experience, but most of them do Marine fish. That being said, nothing ventured nothing gained, if you want to try and stock more than is safely suggested on here, by all means. Just be prepared to deal with the consequences of taking fish back to store or flushing dead fish resulting from a bad mix. Also remember, what may work initially may not work in a year from now when all your fish have matured. Also when speaking with those at Big Al's remember to reference where you're getting your information from on the internet, as some sources are more reputable than others.

Depending on the fish you can also do live plants, the majority of Tangs ignore them. Really if you want something interesting to watch in this size of aquarium its best to stick with the very small cichlids, like calvus + shellies. Or shellies and julies.

Or you can stock your 3 footer with fish that aren't cichlids. Catfish, gobies, halfbeaks, tetras, loaches... etc can all make for an interesting aquarium. Sometimes once people get cichlids into their heads they overlook all their other options, which may be better depending on available funds and space.

P.s. Listen to Fogelhund, he has a 30 year old catfish. That's a demonstration of experience lol.


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## Rick_Lindsey

I would lean away from the yellow labs personally, and choose several varieties of tanganyikan fish that will interact together in interesting fashions...

As far as LFS vs. advice here... people who frequent (and moderate) this folder of the forum tend to have lots of experience with tanganyikans in particular, so I'd lean towards taking their advice over someone who works at a fish shop, and may very well have a good broad knowledge, but it's unlikely that he has the same specialized knowledge you'll find here.

IMHO the coolest thing about tangs is watching their interaction... they typically don't have the flashy color of the mbuna, but there's something cool about watching tangs pair up, prepare their spawning site, and defend their territory and fry. The turf war between my multifasciatus and my leleupi was great to watch... the little guys had so much attitude it was funny... "I spit sand in your general direction! Your mother was a catfish and your father smelt of java moss!".

Just my opinion, but I think you'll be happier if you pick out a few tang species and aquascape accordingly rather than mixing yellow labs with tangs.

-Rick (who made the mistake once of adding a few juvenile peacock cichlid to his budding tang community and regretted it... peacocks are cool fish, but they totally threw off the balance of the tank and radically changed the behaviors of the existing fish)


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## Fogelhund

Truth is you don't have more options with most Tangs. Their behaviour and territorial requirements usually mean you have less fish in the aquarium than if you kept Malawians. They also aren't as colourful.

Having said that, they are infinitely more interesting in their behaviour and I have preferred them over Malawians (though I keep both).

The types that are suitable for a 36" tank are primarily substrate spawners/egg layers. If you stick with Tangs, you could probably do a pair of Julidochromis transcriptus or ornatus, a pair of Altolamprologus and a group of Lamp. multifasciatus.. assuming some careful aquarium set up.
You could throw in a half dozen Neon Dwarf rainbows into such a setup as well.

The Alto's and Labs can be mixed, but they Altos will never truly be happy with such a setup.


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## calleja_aquariums

o ok,, but do you see what i mean lol everyone has something different to say.. it so hard for me. you see fogel i know you have lots of knowledge and i know my tank isn't big but only having 6 fish in the tank is too little... it will look very bare.. the reason i turned to cichlids is because im bored of community fish..The reason i don't want malawi is because i can only have like 2 species if i don't want to do a singles tank.... i want more then just 1 of a species. And you said i can only have like 4 labs and 4 saulosi or 4 white top hara. Thats not what i want. I like the malawi better but i can't have many of them or have more then a pair of 2 species. The guy at big als said i can have more tang cichlids then malawi.
i just wish i could do whatever i wanted and fish weren't so **** complicated!!!!!! i just wish i could have some hara white top, some yellow labs, some saulosi and something else!!!!! but i can


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## calleja_aquariums

i mean "CAN'T"

i will get malawi or south american cichlids when i get my 90-100 gal. i almost had one on the weekend too, i went to the tent sale at big als and me and my dad found a 120g for like $400 we were going to get it but we didnt know where we would put it so we didnt get it. But the guy at the store was on my side, he was even telling my dad its better to get a bigger tank because you will have more options.

For now fogel i think i will stick to the tangs. So can you name some tangs that i can have like that at least have some colour and arent too small. like the brichardi, and the calvus i like. But can you maybe name like 2 or 3 more kinds i can have? The calvus they have right now are so small like and 1". Also will they breed? if they do will they eat the eggs? should i sell the fry once old enough to sell?

fogel please im going to the store soon and i need to know!!!!!


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## Rick_Lindsey

Brichardi work well in a single-species tank, or as a bachelor in a community tank. If you end up with a breeding pair of brichardi in a 40 gallon community tank, you will likely learn about the "Brichardi Death Squad" first hand.

I would second fogelhund's suggestion of a single shell-dwelling species, and 2 rock dwelling/substrate spawning species (one of which is your calvus)

Lamp. Ocellatus "gold" is a rather colorful little shelldweller that would fit well in a 40 gallon tanganyikan community. Presumably you want to keep your calvus. If you aquascape well, you should be able to keep another rock-dwelling species, such as one of the smaller julidichromis, perhaps some paracyprichromis nigripinnis, or you might even be able to get away with some neolamp caudopunctatus.

Neolamp (or lamp, I can't keep track) Multifasciatus is another neat little shell-dwelling cichlid. It's not as colorful as the ocellatus, but it has vertical stripes on most of it's body and blue eyes. It also lives in colonies, where each sucessive generation is often welcomed into the fold. They're among the smallest cichlids, but they're fiesty! You could have ocellatus or multifasciatus, but you do NOT want both in a 40 gallon tank.

The julidichromis dont' have a ton of color, but they have neat black/white patterns on their body and some species have a pretty almost neon blue along the edges of their fins. They're a rock/cave dwelling species

The caudopunctatus ("punks") have yellow/red on their caudal fin, and are reputed to have alot character. Be aware though that they are opportunistic shell-dwellers so may run into some conflict with a true-shell dwelling species (like occelatus "gold", or the N. Multifasciatus that fogelhund recommended). I suspect though that the true shell-dweller would more vigorously defend the shells and the caudopunks would settle for the rocks, but I've never tried it myself. If I were trying caudopunks and a shellie I'd be sure to add the shellies first and let them settle into the shellbed before adding caudopunks. You might also be able to replace your shell-dwelling species with caudopunks and pick another rock-dweller to go with your calvus and caudopunks.

Paracyprichromis Nigripinnis (I think that's the latin name) are a rock/water dwelling sardine cichlid that are rather laid back, and I've heard they like slightly subdued lighting but I can't speak to that with any authority. They are rather pretty fish, but in a subtle sort of way.

Keep a grain of salt handy since most of that is from research rather than experience (though I did keep leleupi and multifasciatus together in a tank rather larger than your 40 gallon). I'm sure Fogelhund or another expert will jump in with any corrections, but since you said you needed advice soon... I hope mine is better than nothing .

These suggestions are assuming that you'd like a variety of species breeding in the tank (which imho is really when their behavior is most interesting), rather than a bunch of bachelors. I don't think a 40 gallon would support more than 3 breeding species.

Also, many people start with a handful of juvies and let them pair up, and then remove the unpaired fish rather than trying to start with "a pair"... even if you sex them correctly tossing a male and a female together doesn't guarantee they'll pair up! 6 juvies is often suggested, but you would not want 6 adults of each species in a 40 gallon tank! 4 juvies will be the same sex 12.5% of the time, vs ~3% with 6 juvies, so you spends your money and takes your chances (and hope your lfs offers decent trade-back value!).

A 1" calvus is likely to take a long time before it reaches breeding age/size, but once they pair up and get past the learning curve, they are not likely to eat their own eggs unless stressed out. I'm not sure how parental calvus are, but many cichlids will zealously guard their fry until they are "big enough", at which point they typically get kicked out of the house (with notable exceptions such as multfasciatus and brichardi where older juveniles have been reported to help out with parenting duties). Should you sell the fry? Sure, it can be a great way to offset some of the cost of the hobby. Don't expect to make a living though . Once your fish start breeding you may start setting up grow-out tanks, and before you know it you've been hit by MTS (multiple tank syndrome), and your friends will look at you funny when you start going on about how awesome tanganyikan cichlids are and how you've got these really cool biparental mouthbrooding gobies, and you're considering a 180 for your next tank *halo*.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## DJRansome

Fogelhund said:


> you could probably do a pair of Julidochromis transcriptus or ornatus, a pair of Altolamprologus and a group of Lamp. multifasciatus.. assuming some careful aquarium set up.
> You could throw in a half dozen Neon Dwarf rainbows into such a setup as well.


Another vote for Fogelhund's suggested stocking.


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## calleja_aquariums

WOW rick lots of info man! thanks you gave lots of options! but how many of each? how many calvus and name like 2 or 3 more that i can keep with them? or can i keep 3 more species with them? Plus i have no idea if my lfs will have some of these species...... I know they have a lot of ciclids but most are popular or only get rare ones sometimes. But ill consider it. Ill ask more questions when i go thursday, but the people there are usually pretty good at giving you a god mix, most of them have a lot of tanks and experience. But ill see if i can get the guy there that knows a lot about cichlids. *** seen him there before so ill talk to him im sure he will give me a good match up. I WILL WRITE ALL THE SPECIES LISTED ABOVE DOWN AND SHOW HIM AND SEE WHAT HE SAYS AND ILL CHECK IF THEY HAVE ANY OF THEM IN STOCK. I KNOW FORSURE THEY HAVE CALVUS THOUGH! (no caps)

Thanks again!!!!!!


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## Fogelhund

When I suggest a stock list, that is it... nothing else to add.

So three cichlid species.

Julidochromis transcriptus or ornatus or gombe... they are pretty common. Get four juveniles, and you end up with a pair. Other option is Telmatochromis vittatus/bifrenatus instead

Lamp. multifasciatus... get six... there are no real substitutes for this.

Alto calvus, get six. End up with pair or trio... get rid of rest as adults.

If the LFS doesn't have them, local breeders will.


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## calleja_aquariums

so this will be my stock list:

4 X juli
6 X lamp. multi
6 X calvus

as for the calvus can i get any kind i want? like ink fin and like different kinds of calvus? or does it all have to be the same type?


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## ed8t

If you're planning on breeding the calvus and selling fry, I would keep the same strain. If I was buying juvenile fish, I would like to know what strain I'm getting.


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## mel_cp6

if you want a good selection of tangs, go check out mike at
fish finatics on kennedy just south of eglinton.
he mainly does africans, malawis and tangs.

just came from there last friday and traded some of my mbunas for more 
tangs. he has small to large africans and you can make a deal with him to.

i bought 3 gibb mpimbwe, 2 comps, 1 tropheus and 1 N. sexfasciatus from him 
and i paid $160, they range from 3-4". they are alot bigger than what you would
find at big als. as for lfs, dont take their advice to seriously. they're there to sell fish
and we are not. so most of the members advice is to benefit us and not the fish stores.

your last 3 choice is a good mix and i would stick would those.
i would put some fronts in there to but they will outgrow your tank in about
a year.

here are some pics of the fish that i got from finatics if you want to check them out.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=193986


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## Fogelhund

calleja_aquariums said:


> so this will be my stock list:
> 
> 4 X juli
> 6 X lamp. multi
> 6 X calvus
> 
> as for the calvus can i get any kind i want? like ink fin and like different kinds of calvus? or does it all have to be the same type?


Just keep one type of calvus. If they breed, and you ever want to raise the fry, then you will want the same kind. Second, if you want to sell them down the road, it might be difficult to tell them apart, and you might not be able to sell them.


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## calleja_aquariums

ok thanks, mel you got some nice fish! ill see if i can go check that place out.

fogel, im not likin those lamp. multi that much, they have like no colour? can i at least switch it with something?


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## DJRansome

That's Tangs for you! Mbuna got all the color, Tangs got all the interesting behavior.


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## calleja_aquariums

ok guys i need help!!!!

i tested my water just now and here are the results: GH:180ppm KH:240ppm PH:5.0-6.0 Nitrites:0 and Nitrates:0
so the nitrites and nitrates are good right? my ph is too low!!!! how can i get it up some more to like a 7.5 to a 8.0? also is my GH and KH ok or bad?


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## calleja_aquariums

Actully the KH is lower i think it might be 180 its hard to tell the difference in colour....... but please help im pretty sure the rest is fine but the PH is too low!!!


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## Fogelhund

What is in your aquarium to drop the ph so low? Are you not on city water?


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## mel_cp6

im from mississauga too and my water is 6.8 from the tap.
i use the epsom salt/baking soda recipe to bring to about 7.8 and up.

here is hte recipe:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php


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## calleja_aquariums

i have no idea fogel... i live near like derry road and tenth line.. im not too far from the city.. all i have is balck fine substrate and some rocks

thanks again mel  
but fogel everything ewlse is fine? just the ph?


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## calleja_aquariums

ok mel so i go buy epsom salt and baking soda. and put in a teaspoon of it for every 5 us gallons? does it work right away or do i need to wait a little bit?


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## calleja_aquariums

how do i dechlorinate my water before i do it... and now i know i have to do it little by little and keep testing till i get it how i want it. isn't there something like a chemical i can get to do the same thing also? (from a fish store)


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## Drowned

Hi,

I have to admit that your water test results are quite strange. What kind of tests are you using? Maybe stripes?


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## calleja_aquariums

yea im using the test strips


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## Drowned

Strips generally lie.


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## Darkside

Depends on the quality and age of the strips. I have some pH strips that are very accurate.


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## calleja_aquariums

i just got the strips last night, i think they are pretty accurate... besides everything is good im just going to add a buffer tonight to get the PH up and tomorrow ill be going to get some fish
im so excited.


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## Darkside

I should say that I don't use the typical aquarium strips.


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## mel_cp6

hey bring a sample of your water to petsmart, the one on argentia and winston churchill.
they test them for free. theres no way your ph is that low.
im at eglinton and erinmills, not to far from you and my ph is at 6.8 if im not mistaken.

btw, when you call mike from finatics, tell him mel gave you hes info.
tell him i bought a bunch of mpimbwe and tangs from him last week.
im trying to trade some of my burundis so i can get more mpimbwe from him
maybe this would help.


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## Drowned

I was talking about aquarium strips. I think it would be good for you Calleja and for the fish to check the parameters with some drops tests. If you don't want to buy new tests (although I think it's quite necessary), try to borrow from someone or get a bit of water to your LFS (if they are OK they will test the water).

It's important because you want to interfere with the water and if your test lies this would be very dangerous!

(Sorry for probable language mistakes)


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## calleja_aquariums

i dont think the test strips i have are lying.... my ph in my other tank is low as well and has been running for 2 years... yeah mel im not far from you at all.. ill take another test today and see if the ph changed at all. Either way even if mine is at 6.8 mel i still need a buffer.

do you know mike personally? will he know who im talking about? i havent called because i am going to big als tomorrow because its closer.. his store is pretty far and its not even my dads weekend with me so ill have to see about next weekend.

but yeah so ill test it again but im pretty sure its around 6.0 so ill have to buffer it up. Myproblem is guys i have a petsmart like 5 minutes from my house the one on argentina mel, but i dont drive and tonight is a school night so i dont feel like walkin all the way over to get my water tested. Plus im 15, and my mom doesnt drive and its her night with me and my sisters.i doubt those strips i have are lying i have always had low ph even wth my other tank i took the water to big als and he even said my ph was way too low. So ill get some buffers tonight from metro and get my ph up to about 8.


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## calleja_aquariums

i dont need the epsom salt.. all i need is baking soda correct? My water hardness is fine.. i just need higher PH so all i need to add is some baking soda right?


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## calleja_aquariums

how the heck do i dechlorinate my water!!!! omg why is this stuff so confusing!!
i dont have the money to go get another water test kit with drops. even though is used like 2 strips already petsmart wont know that! maybe ill just return the strips. i dont know yet ill talk to my dad. do i need something to dechloritize my water?


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## calleja_aquariums

nvm my water conditioner does that, it says on the bottle it take the chlorine out of tap water!  so now i can either but PH buffer or use some baking soda! :fish:

i redid the test for the PH and it looks like it went up to like a 6.5 so it still needs to be buffeed but not as much!


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## DJRansome

If you increase the pH using a chemical, but the GH and KH are not high enough to buffer it, it will crash and harm your fish. I'd read the Library article about using baking soda and epsom salts to increase pH, etc.

That's the main problem with low pH water...anyone can raise it, but to keep it steady is tricky.


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## calleja_aquariums

thats what i did, i used baking soda, but it wasn't very strong.. it brought it up to like a 7.0, and my GH and KH are right where they should be. So can't i just get a chemical buffer from my LFS that will do the same thing as baking soda just stronger?

i didnt use any epsom salt or anything because in the library it says the epsom salt brings the GH up and i dont need that it says the baking soda is what brings the PH up.

how can i keep it steady?


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## ed8t

What are you using for substrate?

Our water here is very soft, practically 0 TDS, 0 GH/KH. I use aragonite sand and it naturally buffers the pH to 7.8 to 8. I throw in an oyster shell in the HOB filter for good measure so the only thing I add during water changes is dechlor, epsom salt and marine salt for traces.


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## Rick_Lindsey

calleja_aquariums said:


> how can i keep it steady?


Welcome to the water chemistry war! I have the good fortune of living where the water is hard, but there are a variety of methods of hardening soft water. There is a home-brew "rift-lake cichlid buffer" recipe in the library somewhere... you may want to take several gallon jugs (or 5 gallon bucket) of your tap water, and see how much of the buffer solution it takes to get your water parameters the way you want them. Now you know how much buffer to add to each gallon of tapwater when you're doing water changes. Some people like to pre-mix their buffer with their tap water (a good idea, imho), that way you know the water you add each time has the same parameters.

You still need to be careful though because often the pH in a tank can slowly drop, though I'm not entirely up to speed on the chemical processes behind that.

Another option that some people do is to use a buffering solid, like crushed coral or crushed limestone either as a substrate, or filter medium... texas holey rock (honeycomb limestone) may help as well, but I'd expect crushed limestone in a filter to work better than a hunk-o-limestone in the tank.

When I was living in soft-water land (georgia) I was planning to use crushed limestone in my sump to help buffer the water. I was planning to use it as my bio filter media though, which may have been a poor choice.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## calleja_aquariums

Ok so ill see how much baking soda and salt i need to add but are you saying if i put some crushed limestone in the filter it will work better? like should i do the baking soda and the crushed limestone or just one or the other?

btw where do i put the limestone in the filter? i have the penguin 350


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## calleja_aquariums

Ok so i tested my water again and everything is the same but the PH:GH=180ppm KH=between 180ppm and 240ppm and Nitrates=o and Nitrites=0 and PH=7.8!

so my PH went up with the help of some salt and some baking soda. I will buy some crushed coral or limestone when i go to LFS today and put it in my filter.

thanks for all your help i cant wait to get some fish today!!!!!!!  ill sow pics asap!!!!!!!!


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## ed8t

You should be able to get some readings of Nitrate. Nitrate levels is the by product of a cycled filter.


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## DJRansome

Right about the nitrate. How did you cycle? I'd worry if you don't have nitrate yet.


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## calleja_aquariums

i re tested i have 20ppm nitrate.


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