# 400+ Gallon Tanganyikan Tank Setup



## zfunk007

Hello everyone, I am somewhat new to this forum (although not really I always come here, I just never posted until now). I manage a retail fish store in South Florida and for the past 25 years or so I have been keeping mostly marine tanks. Since I started managing this store 3 years ago however, I have taken a large interest in African Cichlids, particularly Tangs. I started my first 20 gallon Tang tank about a year ago in my appartment. Since then my girlfriend and I have been able to purchase our first house and I decided to go all out for my next tank.

My best friends father had a 400+ gallon marine tank that he wanted to get rid of so I took it off his hands . The tank is glass and measures 72x36x36, which I believe comes out to around 404 gallons. We got it into the house last weekend (8 guys, a moving truck and suction cups) and this week I have started work on it. I have been taking pictures and if you guys don't mind I'd like to document my progress here. I'm just warning you though, I am going to do some rather unorthodox things with this tank (nothing that I haven't already seen done though, I'll explain later). I will post my first pictures tonight and give you a run down on the equipment I have and the first fish I plan on putting in (mostly holdovers from my 20 gallon).

I have been looking forward to this for a long time, so I hope I can share my enthusiasm with you guys here. I'll post later tonight. See you then!


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## Bkeen

Update?


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## clgkag

Can't wait to see your progress. Sounds like it will be a great setup.


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## zfunk007

Well here we go. Here are the first pictures of my tank. I have decided to use around 700 pounds of Texas Holey Rock with a few large select pieces of driftwood in between. I chose the Holey Rock mainly because of the amount of holes and hiding places it would allow the fish (not to mention it looks pretty awsome too!). It will also buffer the water and keep the pH very high which will of course benefit the Tangs. I decided to put a few pieces of driftwood in because I plan on having some species of Ancistrus and possibly some fancy Plecos as well (if I can adapt them to the higher pH, which I'm fairly confident I can do). I spent the better part of Tuesday with the help of a good friend, building the rock structure of the tank. Here is the result:


Here is the empty tank! I painted the interior underneath with mold and mildew resistant paint. The walls of the cabinet are lined with pond liner for extra protection. I also plan on laying some liner along the floor of the cabinet as well.


I lined the bottom with egg crate to help spread out the enormous weight that the holey rock creates. This was important because the holey rock tends to sit on small points as you can see from the pictures.


As you can see.... it is a big tank 















I think I pretty much have the structure the way I want it. And it is actually pretty stable. I will add the sand once I get the plumbing and filter system done (that is a whole different ball game). So for now there it is. I will post more updates as I make more progress. Any questions, feedback and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!


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## jack lover

Wow how much did all that rock cost???????


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## bell

looking good, a good friend of mine lives in jensen beach


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## under_control

WHich tangs are you planning to keep?

Looks more marine than anything... Which personally drives me nuts.


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## Bkeen

**** that's a lot of rock. maybe a fuzz too much???


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## zfunk007

jack lover said:


> Wow how much did all that rock cost???????


I paid wholesale for it. $1.15 per lb, including shipping. I purchased somewhere in the neighborhood of 750 pounds of rock (and had some pieces left over). So you can do the math .



> WHich tangs are you planning to keep?
> 
> Looks more marine than anything... Which personally drives me nuts.


I personally like the holey rock a lot. The pictures here don't do it justice. You just can't see all the crazy holes and caverns it has unless you see it in person. Actually, there is an article about it on this website:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/tx_holey_rock.php

I am going to keep as many different types of Tangs as I possibly can in this tank. Starting with my original stock from my 20 gallon which included:

1 Rainbow Tropheus
4 Speckleback Cyps
1 Black Calvus
1 Orange Compressiceps
4 Gold Occelatus
1 Tretocephalus
1 Juli Ornatus
1 Juli Tran Gombi
1 Synodontis Petricola
5 Xenotilapia sp. (not sure which ones, llangi maybe?)

That will get me started. And I know this will probably give some people on this forum a heart attack but I plan on mixing species that could possibly hybridize. I plan on putting some of the Tanganykian Spiny Eels into the tank which should take care of any babies that pop up. My friend who helped me with the rock work is a cichlid wholesaler and breeder who has a Tang setup with sand and shell dwellers. He has quite a few pairs of breeding Dewindti that spawn frequently. His eels always do a good job of taking care of the babies (I'm sure some people might think this is cruel, but I call it nature).



> darn that's a lot of rock. maybe a fuzz too much???


I thought about this also but after seeing it setup and seeing how much room there is for the fish to swim around in this rock I think I have the right amount. You can't really tell from the pictures but I did leave some room for some sandy areas on the bottom as well as plenty of swimming room up top for the Cyps and Tropheus. It will be interesting to see how it turns out...

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll possibly post some more pictures tonight with the equipment.


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## jack lover

Wow thats spendy but VERY nice :thumb:


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## danielratti

The too much rock thing can have its down fall. What if a fish happens to get stuck in one of the spots and dies and you don't know it happened. Having alot of rocks has its ups and downs.


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## bac3492

Dont expect to ever catch those fish again.

Looking good so far though.

Im very envious of you.


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## bac3492

And since you have spent so much on rock.

Did you think about a 3D backround. You could make one if your crafty. But if your up for spending. There are a few places that make them. They will make the tank much much nicer.


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## danielratti

Sorry I also forgot to say it looks good. I didn't want to come off as a jerk. I just learned first had about the too much rock thing when i lost a couple fish that got stuck and didn't notice it.


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## under_control

bac3492 said:


> And since you have spent so much on rock.
> 
> Did you think about a 3D backround. You could make one if your crafty. But if your up for spending. There are a few places that make them. They will make the tank much much nicer.


Tank looks to be viewable on 3 sides, a background wouldn't work. THough I think there are simply too many rocks in this tank.


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## mainganio

nice tank and rock work 
and good luck cleaning it :wink:


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## Bkeen

I'm jealous. I'd love to have that tank! or some of your rock...


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## zfunk007

Thanks for the comments guys! I appreciate it! It seems like a lot of you think I have too much rock. Well the water isn't in it yet so I still have time to change things. In what way do you think I have too much rock? Is it too high? Too wide? Should I leave more sandy areas on the sides? Should I thin it out a bit? Personally I think it will look really cool once it's filled. I also plan on putting some Anubius plants in as well since that seems to be a trend in Cichlid tanks these days.

It is true though, a fish could get stuck in the hole and die and I would have no way of getting him out. But I think it is worth that risk for what I have.



> bac3492 wrote:
> And since you have spent so much on rock.
> 
> Did you think about a 3D backround. You could make one if your crafty. But if your up for spending. There are a few places that make them. They will make the tank much much nicer.
> 
> Tank looks to be viewable on 3 sides, a background wouldn't work. THough I think there are simply too many rocks in this tank.


Yes, the tank is an "island" viewable on 3 sides so a background would not work. Which is another reason I have so much rock stacked in the middle. Anyway, hopefully if I have time tonight I will post more pictures of my equipment. See you then!


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## josmoloco

Not too much rock at all, looks excellent. I really like how the structure goes all the way to the top, eliminting unused space for fish.


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## harveyb27

zfunk007 said:


> Thanks for the comments guys! I appreciate it! It seems like a lot of you think I have too much rock. Well the water isn't in it yet so I still have time to change things. In what way do you think I have too much rock? Is it too high? Too wide? Should I leave more sandy areas on the sides? Should I thin it out a bit? Personally I think it will look really cool once it's filled. I also plan on putting some Anubius plants in as well since that seems to be a trend in Cichlid tanks these days.
> 
> It is true though, a fish could get stuck in the hole and die and I would have no way of getting him out. But I think it is worth that risk for what I have.


As for the rock i think it will look amazing. Keep it the way it is. Im very eager to see the outcome. *Will look like a tanganyikan reef!* Just loose a few rocks as the fish grow to provide more space. As for sand on the sides, just make sure theres space between the glass and rocks, otherwise the effect of the sandbed will not exist. The sand will provide depth along with the rocks.

I have a tank full of holey rock with mbuna. They have never in two years got stuck and died. However before i got the mbuna, the tank had some previous fish waiting to go to another tank. I had a large yellow gourami that got stuck so deep that i didnt know what to do. You can imagine what i had to go through as theres no way it could get out by itself. RIP gourami. Though i think cichlid's in general are very clever fish, and have good swimming ability (especially when going in and out of caves backwards). Dont worry.


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## F8LBITEva

sweet setup! I like THR and have it in some of my tanks but I dont lke the way it looks when its covered in algea. *** gotten used to it but I originally liked it because it was bright white.


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## luvmyspoiledfish

=D> I think it looks amazing!! I agree that the only thing I do not envy about your set-up is cleaning it...but, I'm sure you'll figure it out and it will be worth it. I think the fish will love all the "hidey-holes". I'm also all for the unique mixing, more power to ya if you can get it to work and have the fish be happy with it. Can't wait to see it with water!!


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## zfunk007

Yeah I haven't really thought much about how I'm going to clean it. So we'll see how that turns out. I have been thinking a lot about how to do the filtration. Any suggestions? Since I have experience with salt water tanks I was thinking of doing a refugium or possibly a "veggie" filter. Any one have any experience with those in freshwater tanks? I have a lot of room under the tank so I may try doing a veggie filter and just keep the plants well trimmed. I am into the natural methods of filtration and I experimented with a small 5.5 gallon refugium on my original 20 gallon Tang tank which seemed to do ok and kept the nitrates low.

Well, I have tomorrow off so I plan on working on the tank all day and possibly getting the filter and plumbing done. I'll post more pictures when I'm working tomorrow. Thanks for all the feedback guys. I appreciate it.


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## phill

If you have diggers, as you probably will I think the planted refugium is a good idea. Doesn't mean you can't experiment with plants in the main tank either.

As for rock work, I think the amount is a subjective thing really. I personally think half of the amount you have. I just recommend you experiment know with different layouts to convince both of you what's the best option. Much easier to do now than later.

I am looking forward to updates, keep'em coming.


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## spotmonster

I love the rockwork. Not that big of deal IMO on cleaning. Throw in a few bushynose pleco's, they will take care of any fish remains if one dies in the rocks that you can't retreive. Place some Hydro..pumps in the right places to keep flow through / around the rock. Don't overfeed. I'd try top create a system that will allow feeding on the sand, so you can shut off the water flow when feeding. I'm a big fan of the "saltwater look" in cichlid tanks."Tang reef" sounds cool.


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## Fishface57

...It is surprisingly wonderful. I think someone else summed it perfectly"...envious..."!
Wish you all the best. And please keep us posted as you build and add and whatever else YOU decide. :fish: kudos
Wayne


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## BenHugs

zfunk007 said:


> Yeah I haven't really thought much about how I'm going to clean it. So we'll see how that turns out. I have been thinking a lot about how to do the filtration. Any suggestions? Since I have experience with salt water tanks I was thinking of doing a refugium or possibly a "veggie" filter. Any one have any experience with those in freshwater tanks? I have a lot of room under the tank so I may try doing a veggie filter and just keep the plants well trimmed. I am into the natural methods of filtration and I experimented with a small 5.5 gallon refugium on my original 20 gallon Tang tank which seemed to do ok and kept the nitrates low.
> 
> Well, I have tomorrow off so I plan on working on the tank all day and possibly getting the filter and plumbing done. I'll post more pictures when I'm working tomorrow. Thanks for all the feedback guys. I appreciate it.


This is very similar to the tank I just built up. Mines only 72x34x24 but it's viewable from 3 sides just like yours. I have a house plant growing out the back as part of my filtration (aquaponics) I also have the veggie/grow out sump. The main tank has water onions and a large java fern nothing else has survived (so far). 
I'm working on a protein skimmer to add to this system as I already have one that works on gravity alone. 
I turned a store bought background on its side and used that at the back of my tank. I directed the water flow length wise across the top of the tank so that when it curls back it brings all the **** behind my background. I only magfloat the glass on the main tank no other cleaning is required with the water flow set up this way.
I'm keeping Malawi Haps/Peacocks with a few Tangs and other odd balls..... they're all happy.


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## zfunk007

BenHugs said:


> zfunk007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I haven't really thought much about how I'm going to clean it. So we'll see how that turns out. I have been thinking a lot about how to do the filtration. Any suggestions? Since I have experience with salt water tanks I was thinking of doing a refugium or possibly a "veggie" filter. Any one have any experience with those in freshwater tanks? I have a lot of room under the tank so I may try doing a veggie filter and just keep the plants well trimmed. I am into the natural methods of filtration and I experimented with a small 5.5 gallon refugium on my original 20 gallon Tang tank which seemed to do ok and kept the nitrates low.
> 
> Well, I have tomorrow off so I plan on working on the tank all day and possibly getting the filter and plumbing done. I'll post more pictures when I'm working tomorrow. Thanks for all the feedback guys. I appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> This is very similar to the tank I just built up. Mines only 72x34x24 but it's viewable from 3 sides just like yours. I have a house plant growing out the back as part of my filtration (aquaponics) I also have the veggie/grow out sump. The main tank has water onions and a large java fern nothing else has survived (so far).
> I'm working on a protein skimmer to add to this system as I already have one that works on gravity alone.
> I turned a store bought background on its side and used that at the back of my tank. I directed the water flow length wise across the top of the tank so that when it curls back it brings all the #%$& behind my background. I only magfloat the glass on the main tank no other cleaning is required with the water flow set up this way.
> I'm keeping Malawi Haps/Peacocks with a few Tangs and other odd balls..... they're all happy.
Click to expand...

PLEASE post some pictures of that tank. I would love to see it!

As for my tank, it's coming along. I will have more pictures up tonight since I have figured out the filtration and plumbing. May even have it pretty much done by tonight . We'll see....


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## BenHugs

When I get some time I will put up some pics (it's not in the tanks part of my profile but my old one is and its a three sider too)


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## zfunk007

The plumbing and filtration are done! As of 1 o'clock in the morning last night . Tonight I will be hooking up the RO unit and hopefully start filling the tank. As soon as I get off work tonight I will post pictures of it all and you guys can give me your opinions and suggestions. I'm excited to get this tank filled!


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## zfunk007

Alright, here are the pictures:


Four Radioshack Fans, 2 for the Canopy, 2 for Cabinet. These things work pretty well. I mounted them in the cabinet when I was working under there for the past 3 days and they cooled it down nice .


3 Iwaki pumps. In my opinion, some of the finest water pumps you can use. These are the ones I inherited with the tank so I figured I'd reuse them. The bigger of the 3 is 1500 GPH and the other two are around 1000. I am using the 1500 and one of the 1000's for the main return lines going to my tank. The 3rd is used for the closed loop I have which goes from the back left of the tank to the front right. This will help distribute flow throughout the tank.


These are some Current powerbright LED's that I'm going to experiment with for the veggie filter/refugium. I think I may also add some T5's as well.


Here is the 75 gallon tank I am using for the refugium/veggie filter. I also built a wood stand so that the 75 can drain down into 3 rubbermaid sumps. I also have pond liner on the bottom of the cabinet so I don't have to worry (at least not as much) about floods. All of my pumps will be elevated as well so they don't get wet if my little "pond" decides to fill up. But that's what the shop vac is for .


Here is the first rubbermaid sump which I attached an 1 1/2" bulkhead to. There are also 2 bulkheads in the side of the 75 to allow it to drain.


This is where the bulkheads from the 75 will drain into the rubbermaid sump. You can also see the line to my closed loop.


Here is my filtration system completed. The tank drains down into the 75 gallon refugium, drains through the 1" bulkheads into the rubbermaid containers (which are coupled together with 1 1/2" bulkheads) and end up right back to the pumps. Simple enough and I love rubbermaids because they are cheap  (I am running out of money for this tank at this point!).


The 1500GPH Iwaki is attached to the rubbermaid sump via 1" bulkhead. It runs up to the return line on the left hand side of my tank, also through a 1" bulkhead. The pump next to it is my closed loop pump. The black flex hose goes up to the bulkhead in the back left hand side of the tank and the other hose runs to the front right of the tank to the other bulkhead completing the closed loop. The third pump is out of view to the left of the 75 gallon tank. It is acting as my 2nd main system pump for the right hand side of the tank. It attaches to the rubbermaid sump and then runs up to the right hand side return line. Whew...


I put a check valve on each return as well as ball valves for extra safety. You can see the two drains which will empty into the 75. The "ball valve to nowhere" is my easy access water change. I can just pop a 1" hose on to the flex hose adapter and run the pipe out the side door. Since it is a closed loop the entry is submerged at the bottom of the tank so I figured it would make for an easy water change.

Well that's it for now. I'm hopefully going to get my RO unit hooked up tomorrow and I can finally start filling the tank.


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## Fishface57

I'm learning so much...especially with your documentation of the process.


> Well that's it for now. I'm hopefully going to get my RO unit hooked up tomorrow and I can finally start filling the tank


You got it down to an art form, it seems to me. Keep up the GREAT work and keep us posted with your progress. :thumb: Thanks so much! =D> 
Wayne


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## zfunk007

Thanks fishface, I appreciate the compliments. It really isn't that difficult to do what I'm doing. It just takes a basic knowledge of plumbing and of course, gravity :lol:. I have been having a lot of fun with this and I hope my design works. But one thing I have learned through all the systems I have plumbed is that things almost NEVER work right the first time. There is always some sort of hitch. So I am expecting to have a few hicups in the plumbing somewhere. We will see.

I guess I'll take pictures of the RO Unit and how I'm hooking that up as well. Once I am done with that I will start work on the refugium lighting and canopy lighting. I have 3, 72" Aquatic Life T5-HO fixtures I am mounting in the canopy. So I am going to have over 700 watts of light over this tank. Plenty of light to grow that nice bed of algae for my Tropheus and Plecos.

I will have 5 days of time to work on the lights while I wait for the tank to fill (my RO unit is 100GPD so I figure with the extra tank and sumps underneath it will take close to 5 days to fill). I also have to add the sand at some point, probably when the tank is about half full. I have 22, 20lb bags of CaribSea Black Cichlid Live Sand that CaribSea graciously donated to me for this project . If you have never dealt with CaribSea before they are a fantastic company out of Ft. Pierce, Florida. I carry many of their products in my store and they have always been very generous with us (not to mention they produce GREAT products). Anyway, more updates soon.


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## Rick_Lindsey

Wow, sounds like an amazingly fun project! Out of curiosity, why are you planning to RO your water for tangs?

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## zfunk007

I am using RO mainly because the water here in Florida is bloody awful. City water especially is known to have nitrites and nitrates in it (mine does, I tested it). I want my fish to have the cleanest water possible. I am going to buffer it myself and add whatever other minterals I need to add rather than risk using straight city water. I have a well but it isn't functioning at the moment. When I get my well up and running I may use that water instead since I trust well water a lot more than city water around here.

Here at my store we use filtered well water (through a green sand iron filter) and the fish seem to thrive in it. So hopefully I'll be able to do that at some point because running the RO through city water is going to cost a fortune in water. But for the time being it's the only option I have.

Well, hopefully tonight or tomorrow at some point I will get the RO hooked up and I can start filling the tank (I was just too tired to tackle that project last night after a 10 hour day at work). Talk to you all soon!


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## greencross420

This project has been awesome to follow, keep up the good work.


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## zfunk007

Well I have decided to just use city water to fill my tank. After messing around with my RO Unit for 2 hours last night I got fed up with it (never in my life have I had this much trouble with an RO Unit). I am going to use 50 gallon trash cans and fill those first. I will treat the water in the trash cans with a chlorine remover and then pump the water from the cans to the tank and hope for the best. Hopefully if all goes well I will have the tank filled and running tonight. I will probably add some fish tomorrow, hopefully. I will post more pictures of the process later.


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## zfunk007

Well..... the worst possible thing happend today, almost. The tank leaks.... All the rock is in, all the live sand and I filled it up without a hitch. Only to find that the back right seam is leaking. It looks like the whole seam is a little loose because I can see the water seeping down the inside of the seam and out the side. It is a somewhat slow leak so I guess I am lucky. The seam could have burst and destroyed my living room. I am draining the tank now... 

Any suggestions? I am scared to even use this tank now. Even if I were to repair the seam (and I don't really trust my ability at siliconing) I don't know if I can trust this tank. Not sure what to do. Devastated....


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## DREW_BEAR

Hey bud I am very sorry to hear that. I have a suggestion though. When I was growing up my buddies dad worked for a glass company and he was an installer so he had all of his tools on his truck and he would do side jobs for people for very cheap. I am sure if you run into to one of these guys and explain the situation they could hook you up. You could probably go to a local company and run into one of those guys too. Just a suggestion I wish I help out more best of luck to you.


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## harveyb27

Hey check these links out. It's pretty simple for you to fix this problem. Just have a little confidence or get someone else you trust to do it (or a professional). The sealent just blocks water from exiting at the edge of glass. It's not always used to hold the tank together, especially with a tank this size. You need to remove the existing sealent and replace it, to ensure you have blocked all crevices along this edge. The sealent must run from corner to corner and you have to run your finger along to puch the sealent in. I would do this from corner to corner, so i can make sure there are no multiple leak sites. Though in the links they just repair at the location of the leak, cutting away and replacing a small section of old sealent.

The worst that could happen is that it leaks again when you refill, but you just have to repeat the process until it doesnt. Im sure the tank itself will be okay.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/ht/htrepairsmleaks.htm

http://www.ehow.com/how_2050902_repair-leak-aquarium.html

GOOD LUCK!


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## klc9100

i think you can do it man. i just resealed a tank for the 1st time and there wasn't much to it. removing the old silicone was the hardest part. granted, the one i did wasn't nearly as big as yours, but structurally, they are are all the same. you can do it. like someone else said, reseal it and fill it back up. worst scenario, it still leaks, then just drain it and reseal it again. you have an AWSOME set-up. nobody said it would be easy. it will be worth all the work when it's done.


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## zfunk007

Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it. I am going to attempt to repair the tank this week. A friend of mine is very experienced in this sort of thing and he gave me the tools and instructions on how to do it. I am going to do all four corners because if one broke, it's very possible that the others might as well. The bottom of the tank was redone recently and replaced with 3/4" glass and then reinforced with extra strips of glass along the edges so I'm not too worried about that. The top also looks like it was redone with newer silicone. The corners though did look like the silicone was old. So that is definetly my problem.

Anyway, after a couple days I feel better about the whole thing. I might even be able to fix it without having to remove all the rock and sand . I'm glad this happend now and not after I put a bunch of fish in the tank. That would have been far worse. I'll update on the situation once I make some progress. Thanks again guys for all the help.


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## BenHugs

I have black silicone on my tank I like it way better. It doesn't show the algae or go blue with meds etc.


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## BinaryWhisper

Sorry to hear of the problem but it is no biggy to fix. Just take your time.

Personally I'd redo the entire tank. I redo every used tank I get which in the last couple of months has been 20+ tanks equaling well over 800 gallons. Just take your time and if you doubt your skill with a caulking gun then just tape out your tank and use a spoon to seat the silicon. I love black and strongly suggest GE commercial adhesive.

The tank looked wicked and I don't think there is/was to much rock. I'm not part of the overstock the tank to solve aggression crowd preferring instead to provide as much dependable territory as possible and keeping a nice balance of fish. Your setup has that ability. I think it is a much better way to go as you get a much more interesting social tank vs a constant wall of movement.

I'm looking forward to seeing it.


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## Bweb

I work with Silicone caulk all the time You can do it just make sure you razor scrape all the old silicone out of the corners the new stuff won't bond to the old stuff

take your time on the prep that's the most important part The actual caulking is a cinch just run a nice even bead and use your finger to gently form it into the corner in one smooth stroke don't try those new caulk smoothing tools they don't work they just make a mess

Put it on smooth it in and let it dry try not to fuss around with it after you smooth it I've learned from experience being to picky with it just causes more work Besides when the tanks full of water and striking fish you won't even notice the caulk joints :thumb:

I wish I lived close to you I would do it for you just to see that huge tank full of fish :lol:

Don't stress out it's just a temporary set back You could also practice caulking with some cheaper latex caulk a few times on a card board box before you do the silicone on the tank just to get the feel of it latex is a little more forgiving than silicone but at least you can work out the kinks that way

Just go for it :thumb: :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## LDNunez

That sux bro, what r u gonna do with 750 lb of rock if it still leaks. Personally I think all the pound of rocks caused it to leak


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## Rick_Lindsey

Any news on the re-seal? This is one awesome tank, I'm sure we all want to see it with water and fish .

Also, I reread the thread and didn't see anything about planned stocking... any ideas on that front yet?

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## zfunk007

Thanks again guys for all the input and advice. Well I determined why I think this happend in the first place. When the tank was full of water I did notice that it was slightly higher on the left hand side. I didn't think much of it because I shimmed the tank before I filled it and got it level lengthwise. However, what I forgot to do was check it widthwise. Once I drained the tank and used a level I found that it was about half an inch higher on the left side (freaking ameatur mistake!). I think in my haste to get this tank going I made a really silly mistake that probably contributed to this. At any rate with the tank leaning to the right like that it put a lot of extra weight in the back right corner causing the seam to leak (thats my theory anyway). I think the silicone was really old and the tank may have sprung a leak eventually anyway, but the fact that the tank was slightly unlevel caused it to happen sooner. The tank is sitting on styrofoam also so it is a little strange that that wasn't enough to level it off.

Anyway, my dad and I reshimmed the tank the other day and it is now pretty much as level as I can get it considering it's size. The problem is that my freaking floor is really uneven. Not much I can do about that. I also noticed a few design flaws when I had the tank running that I plan on fixing while I have this extra time. For instance, I actually have too much flow in the tank with the 2 pumps running together. So I am going to just use the larger Iwaki 1500 pump and split it rather than using 2 seperate pumps. Because the flow was just insane when I turned it on. It would have been a fish washing machine with all that flow!

Last but not least, I have had the flu all week so I haven't really been able to do much work on the tank. As soon as I get over this I will hopefully get this tank up and running again. I will take more pictures and update my progress later this week. Thanks again guys for the support!


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## Bweb

How's that huge tank

Come on I'm dying to see it full of fish

figured I'd give this thread a bump :thumb:


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## TRENT_G

BUMP, anything yet?


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## zfunk007

Alright, latest update is, I have all the rock and sand out of the tank (freaking nightmare, had to use a shopvac to get it all out). I decided on advice from a friend of mine who is experienced in this sort of thing, to take it all out and reseal the entire inside of the tank just to be safe. I think it's a great idea because frankly, I don't want this tank exploding in my living room.

So tonight I will be stripping the silicone from the inside of the tank and Sunday we will be reapplying it. After that I plan on modifying a few things in my filtration systems which I think I mentioned before. Then I am going to fill the tank up with nothing in it and let it run for a few days to make sure there are no leaks. If after a couple days the tank doesn't leak I will drain it again, add the rock and sand and fill it up for hopefully, the final time. Whew....

I can't really complain about this though, it has all been a learning experience for me and it reminded me that I have to be more thorough when I am setting up a tank of this size and scale. I will put up some more pictures later in the week and update on the progress as I continue.


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## harveyb27

I think you made the right choice :thumb:

Cant wait to see it. Dont make us wait too much longer


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## zfunk007

Well, it's around 1:30 in the morning and the tank is filled and..... appears to not be leaking. It has been filled and running for around 2 hours now. So far so good. I'm hoping this time all will go according to plan . Here are some new pictures:









I doubt most people will be able to tell what modifications I did to the plumbing but basically I decided that 3 pumps was just overkill. So I took one out, split the Iwaki 1500 up between the 2 returns instead and left the closed loop pump as it is (although I am an idiot and plumbed it backwards the first time so I fixed that ). And that is it really. It's up and running now and so far it works great. I will say though, that Iwaki 1500 is a beast of a pump. My overflow has trouble keeping up with it. I may have to crank it down a bit. We'll see...









Here is the tank filling again (complete with Cat). This time I opted to just fill it directly from the hose, chlorine and all since I'll be draining it again anyway once I'm sure it won't leak. I also made a wood frame out of 2 x 4's JUST in case. I honestly don't know if it would even hold the weight if the tank bursts, but it makes me feel better just the same 









As you can see there is a level on top. The tank is almost perfectly level now (almost, it was practically impossible to get it perfect but I came pretty close). Did I also mention that the cat jumped on the hose and it went flying out of the tank and sprayed all over my wood floor . I am now considering redoing the place in tile.....









And here it is, finally, full! It looks and smells like a pool. I'm going to let it run for at least a couple of days and then drain it, get my friend Ken back over here and we'll put the rock and sand back in again. I can't wait to get the fish in! I'm actually amazed at how quiet the tank runs. The stand pretty much subdues most of the noise of the pumps and fans. All I really hear is the trickling from the overflow and even that I can mute by raising the overflow pipes. So far I am happy. I'll post another update in a few days. And as always, thanks for following the thread!


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## Bweb

Looks sweet glad to see it is working out for you it will all be worth it when its pack with great fish =D>


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## aaquale1

Awesome!


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## zfunk007

Well it's been almost 2 days now and no leaks! Everything is still running smoothly. I am going to let it run until Sunday. Then I am going to drain it again and on Monday we are going to put the rock back in. Then fill it up again let it run for a few days, put the sand in and then finally I can start adding fish!

Most likely I am going to start working on the canopy tomorrow night. I have to mount all 3 of the 72" T5 HO fixtures I have. That is going to be interesting...


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## jb1234

This is an amazing tank. Can't wait to see it up and running with fish. Extremely jealous.


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## matt-the-geek

I just wanted to say that this looks AMAZING. I'm so envious of you. I live in an apartment at college right now so theres no way i'd be able to do anything of this magnitude, but someday I will. I look forward to seeing it all set up with the rocks again I thought they were sweet. Post pictures soon dude.


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## zfunk007

First off, thanks for all the great comments guys. I appreciate it!

Here is my update. The good news is, the tank is back up and running with water and rock and wood in it. The bad news is that the day after I refilled it with the rock the water turned dark brown. It may have had something to do with the tannins in the driftwood. So I put a huge bag of carbon in the sump and a micron filter sock to help clear it up. Unfortunately the carbon I used had been sitting (unopened) in a container in my garage for 5 years. I rinsed it for 20 minutes! And there was still black coming out. Against my better judgement I put it in anyway. The next morning my tank was black! Everything! The rocks, the water, the wood, even the silicone! So I immediately took the carbon out.

Now I am not sure what to do. I guess I have to drain the tank, again, siphon as much of that **** out as I can and just start again. I got some new carbon from my store (a brand that I trust) and once I drain it again and refill it I will put a bag of that in. Anyone have any suggestions? This is aggravating to say the least. But this comes with the territory when you set up a tank this big. There are many many things to go wrong. So I just have to keep a good attitude and keep working on it. If anyone here has any good ideas on how to remove carbon dust from a tank, I"m all ears. I'll post pictures once the tank is CLEAR!


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## harveyb27

You can get pads that trap micro particles. Drain the tank, put these in a filter and let run for a day, the tank water will sparkle. Though if theres a lot then you would have to use many pads over a period of time. To be honest most of it will go when you drain the water. Stir up the water as you siphon, so most of it does not sit on the bottom. Juwel do these pads, dont know about other makes. > http://www.seapets.co.uk/gallery/660429-large.jpg If worst come to worst, just siphon and refill, drain and keep doing this until it goes.

Did you boil the wood? I added wood to a 55g with no color change. I boiled the wood 3 times, with no problems. Though the big peices are difficult to boil. While you are preparing the tank and all, soak the wood in a seperate container. Drain and refill everyday. By time you sort the tank out a lot more tannins would have leached out, atleast this way its not in your tank :thumb:

Its unfortunate that you had to go through these issues, though its a learning curve for both you and us. Keep up the good work!


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## zfunk007

Thanks for the tip. I actually carry those exact pads in my store! I just drained the tank and sprayed off all the rocks and wood really well. I let the hose run in it for a while to try and get all of the soot out. I also drained all 4 sumps. I am about to fill it back up and I think this time it will be fine. I am going to use my micron filter sock which I think will work well. I also am considering putting the sand back in tonight as well since I have the tank drained and it's pretty well established that it doesn't leak anymore (knock on wood). We will see...


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## zfunk007

Well I put the old sand back in and am refilling the tank as I type this. The water is less murky now, despite the stirred up sand, than it was with the carbon in it! Ridiculous.... anyway, it's looking good so far. I should be able to drop some water clarifier in there and some good micron filter pads and hopefully the water will be nice and clear in a day or two. As soon as the water checks out I am going to retrieve my cichlids from my old 20 gallon tank (which Ken has been babysitting for me for the past 3 months). They will be the first new inhabitants in this giant cichlid abyss .

I'm actually glad that I got to redo the rock (again I must thank Ken, without him I don't know how I would have accomplished this, he helped me haul that 800 pounds of rock back into the tank for the second time and did the majority of the design work with the rocks). This time around I got to do a a pass-through in the middle of the tank that goes from one side to the other. My giant log is the center piece and the roof of the pass-through. It's really amazing how many cool designs you can come up with Texas Holey rock. There really is no other rock (marine or otherwise) that I can think of that makes for such a great environment for fish. My girlfriend of course thinks it looks like a pile of rocks, but we all know better. I can't wait for the tank to clear so I can post some new pictures!


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## zfunk007

The tank is up and running and the canopy is on! It looks fantastic! Due to it being 1 in the morning I am not posting pictures right now. But I will post all my progress pictures tomorrow at some point.


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## BradRootes

Any pics of the completed tank???? 
i read this entire thread to not see an end result..
i made an account here just see this your tank 
You had so many hickups omg i couldnt do wat u do man
that was wicked as...
i have over 1000 gallons of water in my house and nothing comes close to that lol!!!
all i have is simply sumps and plumbing
havent grew the balls for a reef yet lol~!


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## harveyb27

zfunk007 said:


> The tank is up and running and the canopy is on! It looks fantastic! Due to it being 1 in the morning I am not posting pictures right now. But I will post all my progress pictures tomorrow at some point.


You just had to tease everyone, didnt you! :lol:

Please post them asap... :thumb:


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## zfunk007

Alright, sorry for the delay. Here are the newest pictures of the tank:


I installed a Turbotwist 12x 36Watt UV Sterilizer because I was having some water clarity problems. I just ran it right through my closed loop and mounted it right to the ceiling of the stand. Easy enough.


Here is the sand I used for the tank. I can't remember how many bags I ended up using but I decided to go with black because it would be a nice contrast to the white holy rock. I think I mentioned this before but Betsy at CaribSea was nice enough to donate the sand to me . CaribSea really is a top notch company. They have been extremely generous to my store (they donated enough sand so that we could fill every tank in the store!) and I just have to give them a plug.


Here is the canopy and one of my T5 HO Fixtures. I had to redo the doors on top because the original ones were ruined. All I did was use a piece of 3/4 plywood, attach two handles and hinges in the middle. Then just dropped it into place. Worked out pretty well.


Here is a shot of the canopy with the light fixture mounted in it. I have one on each door which open for easy access and one in the middle mounted on the 2x4 center brace (which is not so easy access but was my only option). I was able to mount them because they had four nice spots on top where I was able to run a bolt right down through the plywood and into the fixture for a nice tight fit.


And just to give you an idea of how big this canopy is, here I am laying in it. Makes a nice coffin :lol:. I tested the cooling ability of the fans by closing myself in for a while. Those radioshack fans actually do a fantastic job of cooling down the canopy.


And here is all three 72" fixtures mounted in the canopy. I actually had to pop the ends off of the lights to get them to fit in. And they just BARELY fit. Got lucky...


Here is a closeup of the computer display of one of my lights. They are made by a company called Aquatic Life out of California (coincidentally the same name as my store hehe). I have to give another plug here because so far I have been impressed with the quality and ease of these lights. These particular 72" T5 HO fixtures come with 16 individual LED moon light diodes, 4-39 Watt 420/460 Actinic bulbs and 4-39 Watt 10K bulbs. All three of them combined (not including the LED's) put out 936 watts over my tank. Now by reef tank standards that isn't that much (around 2 1/2 watts per gallon) but by Cichlid standards I think it will be great. I decided to use more of a reef type lighting because it will really bring the fishes colors out. Not to mention I need a good deal of algae growth because I am planning on keeping Tropheus, some Tang Goby Species as well as some Ancistrus and fancy Plecos.

Another great thing about these lights is that they are computer controlled with a digital readout screen. You can set all three types of lights individually (LED's Actinc's and 10k's) and there is only 1 plug for the whole fixture! I have seen so many light fixtures (especially reef fixtures) with like 3 or 4 plugs. There are also 2 built in fans on top of each fixture to keep it cool. I can't recommend these lights enough as a retailer. I have dealt with pretty much all the big name light companies out there (Current, Coralife, Hamilton, Aqueon, Perfecto) and no one comes even close to these guys as far as quality and customer service goes.


Here is a picture of the tank right after it was filled (for the 3rd time). A couple days before we put the canopy on.


And here is the completed tank! Finally! Sorry the picture is so dark but the lights are so bright that it shadows everything else out of the picture.


Here is a closer angled shot of the right side and front of the tank.


Here is a shot of the right hand side of the tank. I wanted some driftwood in there and that large piece ended up being the centerpiece as well as the "roof" for my pass through to the other side. I wanted the fish to be able to swim through the center of the tank unobstructed.


Here is a shot of the front face of the tank. That whole front area is actually hollow. Me and Ken were able to stack the rocks in a way that created a cavern in the front half of the tank. To the right is my return for my closed loop. I hid it as best I could but you can still see part of the pipe. One of my returns runs through the cavern so that there is a continuous flow going through it. Holey rock is a beautiful thing!


And here is a shot of the left hand side of the tank. I have always wanted a tank that was viewable on 3 sides and I finally got it with this. The bar will make a nice place to sit and watch the fish after work.

Well there you have it! It is hard to believe the adventure this tank has turned out to be. But it has certainly been a learning experience for me. Even after being in the hobby for more than 25 years I have a lot to learn!

A couple of notes and things I have noticed since the tank has been completed:

-I have a weird white fungus growing on my driftwood. I have seen this before in other tanks and from what I know it is harmless and will eventually go away on it's own. Anyone else know anything about it?

-The water clarity is still a little hazy. I installed the UV last night and am noticing a slight difference this morning. I also have a huge bag of carbon and a micron sock in the sump as well. Hopefully in another day or two it will clear up the rest of the way.

-My tank never drops below 83 degrees, even at night with the house set at 77 and the lights off. I think the pumps cause more heat than the lights. During the day it gets up to about 86. Frankly I'm kind of glad it runs warm because it will limit any ich problems and I ran my 20 gallon Tang tank at around that temperature and the fish seemed to love it. Any comments or suggestions on this? I have a chiller but I'd rather not use it....

-Yesterday I went to a local shell store and got around 50 shells (I am going to need a lot more than that, but it's a start). I am going to put shells in each corner of the tank and hope to keep at least 4 different kinds of shell dwellers. I was thinking Gold Occelatus, Multifaciatus, Brevis and one other I haven't decided on yet. Any suggestions or ideas?

-I have tested the water and there hasn't yet been a trace of anything in the water (just a touch of ammonia but it was almost undetectable). I personally use two products from Microbe-Lift called "Special Blend" and "Nite-Out II." They basically cycle your tank instantly. I have been using and reccommending them to my customers since they came on the market. They are fantastic products and work great. I added a little of each to prime the tank for when I pick up some fish tonight. Although I should probably test the water again just in case...

-It took 4 of us to lift the canopy on top of the tank. And we barely made it. It's going to be quite a pain if I ever need to take it down again....

Well thats's it for now. I would love some feedback and stocking ideas as I really haven't started planning much of what I'm going to put in other than a few staples that Ken has waiting for me at his house. Once I get the first fish in I will post some more pictures. Thanks for following the thread, I appreciate all the kind words.


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## harveyb27

woooooo hoooooo, it looks really good!! I wish i had that tank! I think the front face view will look amazing with fish as it shows so much depth.

You mentioned a white fungus on your wood, i have had that before and it is harmless. If you dislike it that much just scrape it off. Though, it does have the tendency to grow back. I wouldnt take much notice of this.


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## zfunk007

Yeah it's weird, it almost looks like white hair algae... I wonder if the plecos would eat it?


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## harveyb27

If you try and pick it off you can feel its spongy and actually really soft. I'm pretty sure thats to do with the fact of putting wood under water. Like some sort of fungus it appears when you put the wood under water. Don't worry about this though. Not sure if plecos would eat it lol you can try :thumb:

Did you have to make the canopy yourself?

Were all the pictures taken with moonlights on, they all look blue?


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## MidNightCowBoy

Looking really good. When you were going over the specs of your lights I was thinking "here comes the algae horde" but then you mentioned the various algae munching species you plan to keep so it sounds good. With your high water temperature you are guaranteed a lot of algae so hopefully your fish can keep it under control.

I think you might be overdoing it with 4 different types of shelldwellers. Only because they compete for territory and shells and I think you will have casualties. I'd suggest only doing 1 or 2 types of shellies. If you want a lot go for a colony forming species like multifaciatus. You could end up with quite the colony going on and they will keep the sand stirred up nicely for you. They are also pretty entertaining with their constant digging and territory defense.


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## zfunk007

Thanks for the advice MidNightCowBoy. I also considered the fact that 4 types of shellies might be too many. However, consider the size of the tank. It is six feet long by three feet wide. Not to mention there is a giant rock structure in the middle separating the two sides. In my store I have a 55 gallon tank with Multifaciatus and Meleagris. Each basically took over one side of the tank. The Multi's are a bit more aggressive but I figured they would claim an area as would the others. I am only placing shells in the corners of the tank (not that they will probably remain in those spots) so I don't know. We'll see. I'm at least going to start with two. Probably the Multi's and the Brevis. We'll see how they adapt and I'll go from there. Does anyone else have an opinion on the shellies and how many different kinds I can put in a tank this size?


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## bac3492

I wouldnt do 4. Maybe 3. You just really need to have each sandy section separated by rockwork.

I could probably sit and stare at your tank for hours. If you get some sort of predator in there. Bigger julies comps, calvus..... You will have plenty of fun watching adventurous shell dweller fry moving a little to far from their shell.

Maybe doing punks could help with your shell dweller situation. If they lose the battle over shell territory, they are one species that is perfectly happy living in the rocks.

Whatever you do, keep us updated.

Maybe i missed it, but what is your current ideas for a stocklist??


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## zfunk007

Well since the water has been testing out perfect, I actually put in a few fish tonight. I went over to Kens place (he is a Cichlid breeder and wholesaler, he supplies my store with pretty much all of our Cichlids and many other kinds of freshwater fish) and picked a few starter fish out. His company is called Exotic Freshwater Tropicals. Quality fish I must say. Here they are:

2 Orange/Yellow Leleupi
4 Black Calvus
1 Red Lufubu Compress
3 Lethrinops Albus, 1 male and 2 females (I wanted something that swims around a lot and I don't really want peacocks, so they were the next best thing)

I picked fish that I knew were on the hardy side. Calvus and Compressiceps for instance never seem to die, ever. I have never lost one at my store in the 3 years I have been there. So I figured they would be a good test fish. The Leleupi's are similarly fairly well lived and the Lethrinops are probably one of my favorite Malawian fish so I threw them in as well. So far so good. The Calvus and Compress disappeared into the rock work, naturally, but the Lethrinops haven't stopped running all over the tank. The Leleupi's are also out and about a bit.

If all goes well in the next two days I plan on adding the fish from my original 20 gallon tank. Which I think I listed earlier in the thread. I also may add a group of 6 clown loaches in a couple days as well. I love clown loaches and simply cannot have a freshwater tank with out them . So while the majority of this tank is going to be Tanganyikan, I am going to add some different kinds of fish as well.

I have some pictures of the new fish in bags and will post them tomorrow.

EDIT:

Here is the stocking list from my original 20 gallon that will be going in later this week:

1 Rainbow Tropheus 
4 Speckleback Cyps 
1 Black Calvus 
1 Orange Compressiceps 
4 Gold Occelatus 
1 Tretocephalus 
1 Juli Ornatus 
1 Juli Tran Gombi 
1 Synodontis Petricola 
5 Xenotilapia sp. (not sure which ones, llangi maybe?)

I'm excited about my speckleback Cyps because I haven't seen them in a while and know their color is fantastic now. They were also breeding in my 20 Gallon! One of my females was holding when I transfered them out of the 20 but none of the fry made it .

On a side note, my male Lethrinops looks incredible under this light. I can't wait to see the Cyps!


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## zfunk007

Added some Clown Loaches yesterday. I took about 4 hours to acclimate them since they were going from 6.8 pH water to around 8.5. They are eating and seem to be enjoying their new home. My Calvus and Compressiceps are constantly hiding but that is to be expected. The 3 Lethrinops are generally out and about swimming around the tank and my pair of Leleupi are also out swimming around more.

My tank is still a little hazy despite the UV, Bag of Carbon and Micron Filter sock. I also added Water Clarifier last week but it seemed to do nothing. Anyone have any other ideas for getting the tank cleared up? It is still a new tank so I know it takes time but I figured someone might have some ideas other than what I have already done.

I will be picking up my old fish tonight! I am excited to get them into their new home. I am sure they will be much happier than in that 20 gallon tank I had them in originally. I am not going to add the Tropheus just yet. I think I will wait until later next week. By then I should have a nice growth of algae in my tank (it is starting to show now). So thats it for now. I will try and get some decent pictures of my fish to post but they are all still very skittish and won't poze for pictures yet .


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## Bwell79

Great looking tank!


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## ladybugzcrunch

Water clairifiers never worked for me, I tried several brands and they all seemed to actually prolong the cloudy state of the tank. Any new pics with fish?


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## zfunk007

Yeah I haven't had much luck with water clarifiers either. I think I may just need more mechanical filtration in general. Also my Xenotilapia and Lethrinops are constantly sifting the sand so that may have something to do with it as well (6 Lethrinops and 5 Xenos, so far).

I have pictures of pretty much all of my fish in the bags. I will post them tomorrow. I will also try and get pictures of them in the actual tank but as of right now they are all very timid and still adapting to the tank. So it is hard to get them to pose .


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## gurvir19

did you glue the rocks together?


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## zfunk007

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates. My work schedule is insane and I am working the next 12 days straight! Basically all I've had time to do is come home, work on my tank for a while, have dinner and watch the tank for a few hours, go to bed. Repeat.

Here is my stocking list so far (as far as I can remember anyway, I must have at least 80 fish in the tank by now):

6 Clown Loaches (2")
2 Orange Leleupi (2.5")
6 Lethrinops Albus (2 Males, 4 Females between 3-4 inches)
4 Black Calvus (of various sizes, all under 2.5")
1 Red Lufubu Compress (around 1.5")
12 Brevis (all around an inch)
16 Gold Ocellatus (although I have lost some due to them being so small)
9 Cyprichromis Leptosoma Speckleback (1.5")
13 Paracyps Nigripinnis (from 1.5-2.5")
2 Lamprologus Helianthus (1")
1 Juli Ornatus (1.5")
2 Juli Transcriptus Bemba (1.5")
8 Tropheus Brichardi Uwile (2-2.5")
4 Tropheus Moorii Red Ndole (2")
1 Tropheus Moorii Black Bulu Point (2")

And my Original Fish from my 20 Gallon which are:

4 Cyprichormis Leptosoma Speckleback (2 Males, 2 Females, Males are 4", females are 2-3")
1 Lamprologus Tretocephauls (4.5")
1 Tropheus Rainbow (not sure of the exact one but he's around 2")
5 Xenotilapia llangi (2-4")
1 Gold Occelatus (2")
1 Black Calvus (2.5")
1 Synodontis Petricola (2")

And I think that's it. I unfortunately lost some of my original fish while they were at my friends place. But the majority of them survived thankfully. Now on to the behavior and what I have observed:

Clown Loaches:

I'm not even sure all 6 are still in the tank because I never see them all at once. Although there is always usually at least 1 swimming around. They don't bother anyone and no one seems to bother them (except the occasional Juli or Leleupi chasing them out of their territory). So far though they seem to have adapted to this, "unnatural" tank perfectly 

Orange Leleupi:

One of them likes the front of the tank, the other likes the back. They defend their territories from each other and occasionally harass my shell dwellers and juli's but otherwise they seem rather peaceful and indifferent. One of them I noticed is slightly deformed in his face area but it's hardly noticeable. I very occasionally see them cruising together but usually one is chasing the other out of their territory.

Lethrinops Albus:

Fantastic fish! I love these fish! They are peaceful, stunning, active, schooling and they constantly sift my sand and keep it clean. They are also the sole Malawian species of fish in my tank, so far. I couldn't ask for a better group of fish. My 2 males are constantly displaying for the 4 females and they are a bright green with a blue face and pink fins. The females aren't nearly as vibrant but they do have a nice pink tint to their fins. I have never seen them bother anyone or anyone bother them. Even among themselves they are a big happy family. They constantly cruise the tank in a group and occasionally the males split up from the females to do their own thing. Great fish! Probably my favorites in the tank so far.

Black Calvus:

These guys were all impossibly shy the first week. However, after nearly 2 weeks in the tank they are out and swimming around almost constantly now. It's amazing to me because my original Black Calvus from my 20 gallon tank never came out! Now he is out swimming all over the tank. Another peaceful species that is neither bothering or being bothered by anyone.

Lufubu Compress:

About the same as the Calvus. Was very shy at first but is now out in the open most of the time, although not quite as bold as the Calvus it seems. Also since he is one of the smallest fish in the tank he tends to get chased sometimes.

Brevis:

I have no idea where all of them went. I'm fairly confident I haven't lost any but the shell dwellers just did not do what I expected them to. I have about 100 shells in the tank, scattered in groups in different areas. The Brevis have pretty much scattered as well. Some are in the front, some are in the back, some are in the rocks. There is no rhyme or reason to it really. They all seem well and good but I can't get a grip on where they all are. As far as I can tell they are mostly left alone, except for the Helianthus who don't seem to like them very much.

Gold Ocelatus:

I started with 16, now I have no idea how many I have left. Maybe 10. They were just so small. All about half an inch. The good news is that about 6 of them ended up in my 75 gallon sump underneath my tank. So since that was going to be my refugium anyway I just decided to give them some hiding places and leave them down there until they grow out a bit. I can count maybe 2 or 3 others that have settled into shells in the tank and at least 3 or 4 that have been killed by other fish. I also have one caught in my overflow that I simply can't get out. It's impossible... I also have my one big 2" ocelatus from my 20 gallon who is competing with the Brevis for a colony of shells. He is one tough little dude.

Leptosoma Speckleback:

Another awsome fish. I have the 4 larger originals from my 20 gallon tank. Two of them are super, constantly displaying males and the other 2 are rather timid females. The other 9 are around an inch and a half and make a great group. They constantly school around the rocks. No one even seems to notice them. My large males however, tend to bicker among themselves. They were doing this in my 20 gallon so it's nothing new, but the battles now seem to be a little more fierce. I hope my smaller Cyps grow out fast so that some of the aggression will be spread out a bit. The males are a gorgeous dark purple color.

Paracyp Nigripinnis:

These are an interesting fish. Although they look and sometimes act like Leptosoma, they really couldn't be more different. They tend to each adopt a hole in a rock. Spread out from each other. Then at various times they all just come out and join in a school. They will even sometimes join the Cyps. Although like the Cyps the smaller ones tend to school together as well as the larger ones. I guess once they get to a similar size they will become more of a group. As far as I can tell, no one bothers the Paracyps and they don't bother anyone else.

Helianthus:

These guys have the word "****" in their name for a reason. They are mean! They have claimed the bottom right corner of the tank for themselves and will chase pretty much everyone away from it. They tend to enjoy each others company although one of them is definitely the dominant of the two. The only fish that seem to be able to get away with entering their territory are the Lethrinops. Probably because they are so much bigger.

Juli's:

The two Bemba's are either best friends or worst enemies. They are frequently cruising the tank together but then the larger of the two will start attacking the other. The larger one takes up residence in the front of the tank and pretty much chases everyone off that gets too close. The ornatus is a loner. He doesn't seem like he has really a place he calls his own. All in all they have been aggressive towards most of my other fish that have invaded their territory.

Tropheus:

So far I am regretting putting the tropheus in the tank. I have 14 of them which I figured would be a large enough group to start a colony (even though I have several different types in the tank). But it is not turning out that way. They are constantly fighting, to the point where they are ripping each others scales off. There are definitely going to be some casualties and there is nothing I can do about it because it is IMPOSSIBLE to catch anything out of this tank. I think perhaps the reason they are fighting is that the tank is so big they were able to map out individual territories and it is now causing them to guard them viciously rather then go as a group. I probably should have added a bigger group (or in this case, just not add them at all). But I haven't lost all hope yet, we'll see....

Tretacephalus:

His name is "Cheney" my girlfriend named him that because in my 20 gallon he was a "Dick" to everyone in the tank . Now he is as docile as can be and made his residence under a big log which sits on the bottom of the tank. He doesn't bother anyone, and since he is pretty much the biggest fish in the tank, no one bothers him. Beautiful fish....

Xenotilapia:

These guys actually aren't quite as active as they were in my 20 gallon. At first they were never in a group, now though they have decided to all get back together and sift in their favorite spot on the right side of the tank in front of the pass through. They aren't colorful fish but they have a very unique look I will have to say. They also sometimes swim with the Lethrinops. My males are also much bigger than my females. I don't think anyone really notices they are there.

Synodontis Petricola:

Anyone that has owned one of these should know that they are reclusive. Especially in a 400 gallon tank! I see him if I'm lucky, a single time in the day. I want to get a couple dozen of these cats so I can see some actually swimming around. One of my favorite catfish...

Well, other than the Tropheus mess, so far so good. I haven't lost a single fish due to water quality issues. I can't recommend the bacteria products I am using enough. Special Blend and Nite Out II by Microbe Lift. They simply work wonders. Not a single spike in anything since the first group of fish I have added.

A couple side notes:

-I added 6 Java Fern Plants to the tank and plan to add some Java moss as well.

-I added 6, 4 Watt CURRENT LED POWERBRITE strips to my refugium underneath and put some Java Fern down there as well. I also added some white ceramic rings as well to help with the biological filtration. The LED strips do a great job of lighting up the tank underneath. And it is only a total of 24 watts!

-I added an automatic feeder as well. It is the Aquachef by CURRENT. It is a digital feeder and you can feed your fish up to 4 times a day (single or double feedings). I have it feed my fish every 4 hours. So far it has worked great other than one instance where it got reset for some reason. But it gives me the ability to feed my fish small amounts more gradually which obviously is better for the fish.

-My tank runs warm. In the morning it is about 84 and by 11 O'Clock at night when the main lights go out it is running usually between 86-87. I'm not sure if this will affect my fishes health in the long run but they seem to not mind the temperature. And one good thing about it is that it will insure I don't have any ich problems in the tank.

Well I guess thats it for now. I will post some pictures of my fish once I can get some good shots. Until then this lengthy post should let you know what's going on.


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## zfunk007

gurvir19 said:


> did you glue the rocks together?


And in response to your question gurvir19, no I did not glue the rocks. I did however put eggcrate underneath and put the rocks down before I laid the sand so that when the Cichlids dug around they wouldn't upset the balance of the rocks.


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## harveyb27

Great stocklist! Must look amazing! Too bad about the aggression from the Helianthus and Tropheus.

How many different types of tropheus have you got?

Is the aggression between the tropheus between the different species? or with thier own conspecifics?

If it gets too bad you might want to add a lot more like you suggested? It will only enhance the look of the tank, and may be the solution to this problem.

If the aggression is between different species then perhaps you could even out the numbers between the groups.... Because if you have perhaps 6 ikola, 6 mpimbwe and only 2 Duboisi.... then it is more likely that the duboisi will quickly die off, as they are unable to spread aggression with others of their species. Having equal numbers should help, though even better would be a giant group of 1 variant. "Lost in the croud" theory applies here.

I'm sure you will sort it out eventually, these things always balance out in time, sometimes even without casualties! :thumb:


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## zfunk007

Thanks harvey, it does look pretty awsome with the fish that are in there (and honestly I'm just getting started). Although the Tropheus aggression bums me out a lot. As far as I can tell the aggression is same species related. The Brichardis attack the Brichardis and the Moorii attack the Moorii. It was actually stressful watching my tank last night because the Tropheus were just going at it. I'm pretty sure there will be casualties soon.... I wish there was something I could do. But aside from adding a bunch more Tropheus there isn't anything I can do. And at the moment I don't have the option of adding more. I would have preferred to add just one species of Tropheus but at the time the ones I got were all that were available so I figured it wouldn't be a big deal. But now I know that 14 in a 400 gallon tank isn't anywhere near enough. I think what I will do is that if most of these guys kill each other off I will go with smaller specimens to start out if I decide to try Tropheus again. Otherwise I may just eventually set up another tank devoted to just them (which is probably a better idea anyway).

At any rate, I will try and finally get some pictures posted tonight (although I can't make any promises). And maybe when I get home my Tropheus will all be one big happy family... I can wish can't I?


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## harveyb27

Do you know how many of each variant you have?

I think the idea of a species only tropehus tanks is really good. They always look stunning no matter what the variant. Your right 14 is no where near enough for a 400g. Try 140 instead lol  :lol: I think more than 40ish may work.

That is just one of the learning curves of having such a huge tank (which you should be very proud of!). I have an idea about what you could do before adding species, but it only concerns conspecific aggression...

Before adding them to the 400g, keep them in a smaller tank and observe thier behaviour. Make sure you put some holey rock in so the habitat is similar. You can isolate potential aggression problems this way. As taking them out once in the tank is near impossible. This way you can pick each fish and take out problem macho fish!


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## zfunk007

All very good points. My friend Ken grew them out for me for about 6 months in a 30 gallon tank before they came to my tank. There was very little aggression in that tank (although there weren't really any decorations other than bio sponges). However, I got home last night and I noticed that the aggression seemed to have subdued a bit. I didn't get to watch them very long and it was late but I noticed that the Brichardi's were in a group and not really pestering each other. I will observe them again tonight and see if they are still mellowing out. This could be a good sign...


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## harveyb27

Just a thought? - I THINK I HAVE THE ANSWER.... 

Maybe all the fish are just sorting out the pecking order. Once this is established perhaps they then went into a group, subdued the aggression due to knowing where they belonged concerning the other fish?

I have found mbuna do this a lot when in new territory. Once the group is defined (pecking order) they often calm down. Just worth mentioning as tropheus and mbuna share some qualities.


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## matt-the-geek

How about some pictures? I want to see that baby with fish in it.


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## zfunk007

Well, the tank is doing great (although my water is still a bit hazy and my tank is turning green :lol: ). The tropheus have calmed down a bit and everyone seems to have fallen into their places so far. I have stopped adding fish for the time being (although I plan to add many more eventually). And I just got off a 10 day work schedule so I am unwinding a bit and hoping that I'll get around to taking some pictures in the next couple days. Although honestly I haven't had much time lately to really observe my tank. I think I am going to wait until I can get my water as clear as possible before I start taking pictures. I'll keep you guys updated soon. Thanks for the interest .


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## frogguy1

Wow, nice aquarium. Great Size. You will have some happy fish. You will be screwed if you ever need to remove one, lol.

You spent a lot on that rock. I live in the texas hill country (Austin to San Antonio) where all that rock came from. I can get it free of the side of the road, in creeks, fields etc.....

I should start selling it, lol.


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## harveyb27

frogguy1 said:


> You spent a lot on that rock. I live in the texas hill country (Austin to San Antonio) where all that rock came from. I can get it free of the side of the road, in creeks, fields etc.....
> 
> I should start selling it, lol.


Its like *GOLD* to cichlid enhusiasts lol especilly beginners, what with all the sites and books that recommend it! When you start selling, import to me and we can make some money :lol:

Zfunk how are the tropheus now? any pics?


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## gurvir19

frogguy1 said:


> Wow, nice aquarium. Great Size. You will have some happy fish. You will be screwed if you ever need to remove one, lol.
> 
> You spent a lot on that rock. I live in the texas hill country (Austin to San Antonio) where all that rock came from. I can get it free of the side of the road, in creeks, fields etc.....
> 
> I should start selling it, lol.


yeah setup shop man.....here in toronto it costs $3/lb....i bought 200lbs for my tank!


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## RayAllen

I have a 70-80lbs rock in my backyard that I could sale for $150-250 although shipping wouldnt be cheap.


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## harveyb27

RayAllen said:


> I have a 70-80lbs rock in my backyard that I could sale for $150-250 although shipping wouldnt be cheap.


Is that one rock peice???


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## RayAllen

Yes it is one rock.

I am frogguy1 by the way. I signed into the wrong account. I ended up with 2 accounts because I forgot my old info from 2004 and rejoined in 2008 only to find the old info later on.

So I am one in the same.


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## harveyb27

Haha your a double agent!

Smash that rock and sell, sell, sell. *Gurvir19* will probably buy some more if the price is right, he loves that stuff lol :lol: :thumb:


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## zfunk007

Thanks for the compliments frogguy1. You seriously should sell that rock. I paid $1.50 a pound for mine (and that's wholesale) and I got around 700 pounds for my tank. We bought around a ton total for my store. The stuff really is like gold. We have sold most of the rock we bought and as we speak I am getting together a bunch of it for a guy that lives in North Carolina who happened to come into my store last week. He bought 2 pieces for his tank and liked it so much that he is sending his parents in to buy another 125 pounds of it for him. They are going to drive it up to him in North Carolina!

Anyway, I'm thinking of adding another UV to my tank to help get the water clear. I don't think the one I have is quite enough. It's hard to tell if my water has a green or a white haze. I think it is more white but since my rock is so green now it is really hard to tell. I may kill a few of my lights for a week or two also. I do have 1000 watts over my tank... which I guess is overkill for a cichlid tank and is no doubt contributing to the water clarity problems.

The fish certainly seem happy though. My cyps are in a huge group right at the front end of the tank and my smallest ones seem to be already growing (they do get fed 4 times a day, yet another reason my water is probably cloudy). The tropheus still bicker but they aren't tearing into each other quite like they were. Seven of my 16 Gold Occelatus have ended up in my sump as well as 3 Brevis (they are happy though, they have their own 75 gallon tank now!). The other Brevis have taken up residence in my rocks. For some reason they won't go near the shells! The Paracyps have formed a colony near the back left hand side of my tank. Although they frequently come to the front to school with the cyps. Especially at feeding time.

And for now that's about it. As soon as I can get this water cleared up a bit I'll post pictures!


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## harveyb27

Do you think it might be algae causing it?

Add some filter floss to catch micro particles and some major water changes to reduce it.

Its like the charcoal all over again lol opcorn:


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## mobas4-life

tank looks great...but you probably only have 200 gallons of water or less with that much rock in there.
that being a 400 gallon,i'd want as much water volume as i can get.
its your tank and i'm really jeolus,just wanted to add my 2 cents.


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## zfunk007

mobas4-life said:


> tank looks great...but you probably only have 200 gallons of water or less with that much rock in there.
> that being a 400 gallon,i'd want as much water volume as i can get.
> its your tank and i'm really jeolus,just wanted to add my 2 cents.


You are correct, there is probably much less actual water volume, which is why I added a 75 gallon sump (which has no rock in it what so ever) and 3, 20 gallon rubbermaid containers (also with nothing in them). This adds an extra 135 gallons of water to the system which helps make up for all the rock in the tank.

To help with filtration I also have 2, 200 Micron socks as well as a huge bag of carbon along with the UV. Although I don't have any filter floss.... Anyway, I am going to attach the new UV tonight and see if that makes a difference.


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## harveyb27

Any updates? New fish? Pics?


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## zfunk007

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates. I am now working 6 days a week so I have little time for much else. Anyway, the tank is doing great! I have a nice healthy growth of algae over the rocks and the tropheus are loving it! They are doing well and the aggression has died down to normal levels. I have had a few casualties though, all from aggression. I lost one of my Julie Bembas (I think the Julie Ornatus pecked him to death), one Nigripinnis (his eyes were pecked out and his fins frayed when I found him) and pretty much all of my Gold Occelatus. The Occelatus just all disappeared. They were very tiny and I'm pretty sure they all were heckled to death more than likely. In my 20 gallon my Julies were notorious for pecking their eyes out.

I added 2 more fish yesterday. A Neolamprologus Toae (who immediately disappeared and I haven't seen since) and an insane colored Obliquiden from Lake Victoria (I couldn't resist hehe, but he will be the only cichlid in this tank from that lake). It has also been a little over a month since I put fish in the tank and I've still not had an ammonia or nitrite spike. My nitrate also remains at zero (that thick layer of algae is probably helping with that a bit). At any rate, I have FAILED miserably in my picture taking abilities. I have a really nice camera with a zoom lens and everything and for the life of me I can't seem to take a clear picture of any fish! The pictures always turn out blurry. I know it's probably distortion in the glass among other things but I have never had this much trouble taking pictures of fish before. I am not using a flash because the fish look a lot better without it. Anyone have any suggestions? I want to post some pictures for you guys but I can't get a decent one!


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## Ssssssspit_Fire

nice setup!
(as an owner of a 400 G myself - L104 X H32 X W28)


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## zfunk007

Thanks Ssssssspit_Fire! I have worked very hard on this tank. I can't wait to get some pictures up to show you guys (been struggling with the camera to get decent shots).

I added a few more fish in the past couple days.

Gold Nugget Pleco
Royal Pleco
4 Eretmodus Makombe

I definitely need all the algae eaters I can get! The algae is growing nicely and I'm sure the Gobies and Plecos will love it like my Tropheus have been. I'll post a bunch of pictures once I can get some decent shots.


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