# 75g mbuna stock list help



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

I'm going to be converting my 75g into a mbuna tank, and I was hoping I could get some thoughts on a potential stock list. Here are my thoughts so far:

Rustys 1/4
White top Hara 1/4
Pseudotropheus williamsi 1/4 
Saulosi 1/4
Yellow Labs 1/3

The Rustys, white top Hara, and yellow Labs are the ones I'm sure I can actually get, so the other ones may not really be an option. But say I could get all those, what do people think? How may many should I shoot for total, and how many species could I have? Maybe 5? I'd like a (relatively) peaceful mbuna tank... Id love other suggestions too, i may not have access to all of them, so the more suggestions/tips the better 

And another question, I currently have a lone older male rusty, if I added say 4 or 5 you juvies (1"), would he mesh for them or us the size difference too big?

Thanks!


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Also,Should I up the original numbers knowing I'll have to remove some males to get the appropriate ratios?


----------



## amcvettec (May 11, 2012)

I would shoot for 4 species for a 75g if it's a standard size (48" x 18"). I see some potential problems with your list. Williamsi may get too big for a 75g so I would prefer them in a 5' tank. I would also choose either the Saulosi or the Yellow Labs. Otherwise there may be some crossbreeding. What about Rustys, Hara, Labs, and Albino Socolofi?

Your one lone Rusty male may be hit or miss with adding Juvies. If you change up the scape on the tank to where he doesn't have any territory to claim, you should be ok as long as they are big enough to not get eaten.


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks! I don't think I have access to socolofi. I found out I also have access to Red Top Hongis, Fuelleborni (these guys may get a little too big, tho). Would either way of these guys fit in?


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

'Hongi' are Labidochromis, so don't stock them if choosing L. Caeruleus. Fuelleborni do get huge. Look into Labeotropheus Trewavasae instead.


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

So i've combed Craigslist as well as my LFS, and here is what i have access to, without having to to mail order (which isn't out of the question, and this obviously would open up my options substantially.

Hongi - About 1"
Yellow Labs - About 1"
Hara Afra - 1"
Cynotilapia White Top Hara (might be the same as Hara Afra?)
Pseudotropheus Perspicax Orange Cap, Red Top Ndumbi
Chewere - 2.5 - 3"
Msobo - 2.5 - 3"
Rustys - 1"
Labeotropheus fuelleborni

a local breeder has Labeotropheus Trewavasae, Mpanga Red, but from what i can tell these guys get like 7".

I like the Msobo and Chewere, but I like getting the fish really young and watching them grow (part of the fun, if you ask me), so getting them that big isn't as appealing to me. Are they too similar looking to put together? When it comes to colors, how close is "too close?" Do similar blues count as too close even if one has black bands and one has black "smudges." How about the Afra? Is it ok to add 2.3-3" fish with 1" fish?

Do i need to order like 6-8 of each of them to eventually get them down to a proper 1/3-5 ratio? Or can i order 5 of each, pair them down, and then whenever the numbers start to get off buy/add more?

Is it ok to add 2.3-3" fish with 1" fish? I could add


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

> Is it ok to add 2.3-3" fish with 1" fish?


Better to be safe and wait until the 1" fish hit about 1.5" to make sure they don't get eaten. Even if the whole small fish can't completely fit inside the bigger fish's mouth, they can still bite a tail off.

The following pairs are close enough in coloration or phylogeny that I wouldn't recommend keeping them in the same tank:
Msobo and Chewere
Yellow labs and Hongi
Fuelleborni and Trewavasae
Hongi and Cyno sp. Hara (this one might be ok, not sure though)
Hongi and Perspicax "red top"

In general, the perspicax are highly aggressive and territorial, so you might want to stay away from those. The afra hara and the "white top hara" are likely the same fish.

The following mix would work (in fact I've had this exact mix and it's probably my favorite tank that I've ever kept):
Cyno sp. Hara
Met. sp. Msobo
Labeotropheus Trewavasae (they do get large - 6" - 7" but this takes about 4 years)
Yellow labs

You could sub in Rusties for any of the above. You could sub the chewere for the msobo or Fuelleborni for Trewavasae.
Try and take a look or get a picture of the breeder's strain of Trewavasae 'Mpanga Red' - there's a bit of variation in the deepness of the red color, ranging from rust-colored to a more deep red-orange.


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks Kanorin!

So how many should i look to buy? Should i do like 8 of each and then rehome them as needed? or should i plan on adding some from another batch sometime down the road to make up for the ones where i had too many males and subsequently a bad ratio now?


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

mclaren880 said:


> Thanks Kanorin!
> 
> So how many should i look to buy? Should i do like 8 of each and then rehome them as needed? or should i plan on adding some from another batch sometime down the road to make up for the ones where i had too many males and subsequently a bad ratio now?


If you're mail-ordering the fish you probably want to order about 12 of each (so you don't have to pay shipping twice). If you can get the fish locally and the species are in stock regularly, then I might pick up about 8 of each and add more females down the road if needed. If any of them are local and over 2.5 inches, there is a good chance that you can vent them or even get a good guess on gender based on color.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I recently asked a site sponsor and another member here about L. Trewavasae and their potential size. Was informed they don't reach the size of L. Fuelleborni and stay smaller around 4-5.5". Certainly any fish in captivity can grow larger than in the wild.

Kanorin- how large were your L. Trewavasae when you had them in that 6' tank?


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks again. So i'm assuming i should do 1:4 ratios here? Is going with a 5th species going to be too much? I like activity in the tank, but i don't like it when everyone looks like they're stressed out, so i don't want to pack them in, either.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you stock the Labeos I'd do 7 females. Four species max IMO.


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Kanorin- how large were your L. Trewavasae when you had them in that 6' tank?


Mine hit 5-5.5" but I don't think he was full grown before I gave him away - was about 2.5 years old.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Kanorin said:


> Iggy Newcastle said:
> 
> 
> > Kanorin- how large were your L. Trewavasae when you had them in that 6' tank?
> ...


Thank you.


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Could I swap in some OB Fuelleborni (or marmelade) for the trawavasae? Also, i see there are a ton of variations of afra, would they be sort of interchangable as long as their colors aren't too similar to another tankmates?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

For your Labeotropheus group, you would want all one species. 1m:7f OB or marmelade or trewavasae would work. If you are still stocking the saulosi, and you are considering swapping afra for hara I would not. The hara is a very light colored fish with few/skinny bars which makes it different than the saulosi. Some of the afra look too much like saulosi IMO.


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

So do I need to add them All at once? I can get 10 1" rusties for $10 from a local guy right now and I know I'm going to have them for sure, but the others I don't have as easy access to. I have a few other small fish in the tank that in going to be selling, but all 3" or less juvie haps. There are only like 8 total fish in the tank so it's not very crowded. So do you think they'll be able to coexist with the rusties for a few weeks till I figure out what I'm doing with them?


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You can add groups separately and the juvenile rusties may not harass your haps before you can sell them.


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

I was worried about the rusties! But thanks, DJ. Helpful as normal


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Make sure he is not skimping on the size...I usually like to buy fish bigger than 1.5".

Are the haps piscivores?


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

2 phenochillus, 2-3"
2 ahlis 3"
Alto comp 2.5"
Calvus 2"
Mixed hap 3"


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Personally I'd wait until the existing fish are gone, and wait for rusties that are at least 1.5" before buying mbuna.


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Do you think the rusties will harass the others? Or vice versa?


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Alright, about a 1:4 ratio of the following:
Rusties
Hongi 
Fuelleborni
Msobo

I'd probably try and get maybe 8-10 of each and remove males as I go. All are 1" - 2.5".

See any problems here? Do I need to change any ratios?


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

With the Labeotropheus and going with DJs advice, buy 14-16 of those. My L. hongi male is rough on his 6 ladies in a 6' tank, so I suggest getting at least 10 of those. No experience with Rusties or Msobo. Since Msobo is a an aggressive fish I'd buy a dozen or more. 8 should be ok with mild mannered Rusties. As long as your tank is cycled with ammonia, you'll have no issues with the bio load. Just pull fish as they become problematic.

If you can, get trewavasae instead of fuellborni. They are a smaller and less robust fish.


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks Iggy,

So I think i'm starting to finally get the rules here... I also have access to Metriaclima greshakei and Chailosi. I'm guessing i have to pick between them, and the Msbobo as they're all in the "Metriaclima" family, correct? The Chailosi are appealing because it looks like they may be a little more chill than the msobo.

I also have access to White Top Hara, They should be alright in that tank, no? I also have some access to Yellow Labs and my fiance loves the yellow, so it sounds like i could sub them in for the Msobo to still get my yellow fix. This means I'd have to get rid of the hongi, correct? I don't want hybrids in the tank as i'd like to be able to sell the survivors for at least a little money.

So if i understand correctly, you want to avoid similar coloring, and the same species, correct? (So don't do 2 Labrochromis, or 2 Pseudotropheus). Or don't do Msobo and Maingano as these guys look similar.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

My elongatus Chailosi are anything but chill. The species profile on this site has them listed as mildly aggressive, but I think it should be upgraded to aggressive. Just my observations though.

Yes don't do 2 Labidochromis species. Pseudotropheus is kinda like a 'holding genus' until the fish can be officially identified, but not every pseudo(I believe. Someone may correct me on this). Maingano should be fine with Msobo.

Cynotilapia sp. Hara, rusties, yellow labs and L. Fuelleborni would be a cool mix.


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

Thanks Iggy,

Do you have any experience keeping a more mellow mbuna such as a rusty or yellow lab, with more aggressive ones such as hongi (although i know they shouldn't go with yellow labs), chilosi, etc? I'm wondering if i should go all friendlier, such as afras, electric yellows, rusties, etc, or all aggressive, chilosi, hongi, maingaino, etc... Or is a mix best?


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Do a mix. With milder mbuna you don't need as many females per male, thus keeping your numbers down. My L. Caeruleus were aggressive. Cynotilapia are pretty mellow, but I only had one species. No experience with rusties.

All fish have different personalities. Some fish that have a rep for being nasty, can turn out to be chill and vice versa.


----------



## mclaren880 (May 20, 2012)

So i've spoken with a couple breeders that i can get fish from in the next day or so. The white Afra guy isn't really responding so i'm counting them out. Here is what i can colonies of:

BluexRed Zebra
Saulosi
Rusties
Hongi
Electric yellow labs
Polit
OB Fueleborni
Socolofi
Ice Blue Zebra

I think I'm defintely doing Rusties and OB Feulleborni

Do you see any cross breeding issues above? I'm worried about the Ice Blue Zebra, Blue x Red Zebra, socolofi and Saulosi. Considering they all have blues and the orange (saulosi) and red(zebra) might be too close. SInce i can get the color yellow from one of these guys i'll probably skip yellow labs. Would the Polit cross breed with any of them? I hadn't really looked at them but they're pretty awesome looking. I thought i had heard that the female polits can be really drab, but a google search returns cool females... I'm guessing the femals aren't actually drab? Any other potential problems you foresee would be appreciated 

Thanks a bunch, I'm thinking i'll be able to purchase them all in the next day or so here.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You only want one Metriaclima species (first and last on your list). I would not mix "solid" blues like socolofi, polit, blue zebra or ice blue zebra. I would not mix blue barred rish. I would not mix saulosi with yellow labs or red zebras.

Rusties, fuelleborni, saulosi and socolofi.


----------

