# Made the switch to sand - HELP!



## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

So we made the switch from gravel to sand today. We used aragonite (sugar grain). We did a thorough rinsing of each bucket before adding to the tank.

The water is SO SO SO SO murky that we cannot even see the fish. Is this normal?? Did we not rinse the sand well enough? We rinsed until it was clear.

I'm wondering if the sugar grain was a mistake and we should have gotten a thicker sand?

I hope I don't lose all my fish, I'm freaking out here!


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

Sounds like you could have rinsed it a bit more, but the fish should be fine.

Keep an eye on them for the next few hours while the tank clears to make sure all is well.

You tank should be all cleared up and looking good by tomorrow. :thumb:


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## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

This is very common. It's really hard to rinse the sand enough. The fish should be fine. They might even enjoy the privacy. After a day or two it should start clearing up as the dust settles to the bottom. You should watch the ammonia and nitrIte levels though. You might get a mini-cycle in the tank.


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Phew. You guys are making me feel a little better. LOL These are my babies, here! (as I'm sure you all know yourselves).

Ok, so should we turn the filter on? I know that on the video in the library he said to turn the filter off while adding the sand. I just don't know if that would maybe help with the murky ness or not?


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

Yea... turn the filters back on.

And make sure your input to the filters is at least 4-5" above the sand.


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

How do I watch the nitrate levels? Do I need to go buy a testing kit?


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

Not the nitrate... nitrite (with an "i"), and the ammonia levels.

Having a test kit handy is usually a good idea, even if it is the "test strips".

If you have decent filtration, you shouldn't go through a mini cycle at all.


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Thank you so much for the help! Headed out to get a kit now. Everyone seems to be behaving normallly, but I will check everything to make sure.


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## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

The nitrAtes you don't have to worry too much about. NitrItes are harmful to the fish, as well as ammonia. At the bare minimum I'd suggest buying the test strips. It'd be better to get one of the liquid chemical test kits. Having your filter running will help speed the cycle (might even eliminate the cycle depending on what kind of filter you have). Any thing else we can help you with?


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Nope, I think that's all for now moto-master! LOL I will definitely check in with you guys if something is out of the norm and gets me panicked again!

(I've had my tank for about a year now so I still consider myself a newb!)
I do have a decent filtration system so hopefully everything will be fine.

Is the water going to do this every time I add new water to the tank after water changes?


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## moto_master (Jun 23, 2006)

If you stir the sand, yeah it probably will get cloudy. Even if you had cleaned it perfectly, fish waist and extra food will get in the sand and make it cloudy when stirred.


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## BoostedX (Mar 1, 2009)

It will prolly get a little cloudy during water changes. Just pour your water in slow to help with this. Keep your filters clean also. Rinse them in tank water and put them back in. Dont change you filter pad or you will loose a good amount of your beneficial bacteria. Deff get some test strips ammonia, nitrAte, nitrIte and PH. Start doing tests regularly so you know what your water qualitly is.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

I have aragonite in my tank, have had it in there for about 5 months. When I initially cleaned it, it took me over 4 hours to do 45 pounds of the stuff. I didn't have the cloudiness you speak of when I put it in my tank, but it will definitely settle to the bottom of the tank. Even now, after 5 months, whenever I vacuum it I get stuff from it. It doesn't cloud the water but you can definitely see it in my gravel vac.


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## PitBully (Apr 14, 2009)

I'll just add more comfort for you. The same exact thing happened to me when I added Pea Gravel. I was freaked out!!! But after 1 day or so, the dust settled to the ground.


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## ben_charm (Jan 29, 2009)

i used a powerhead filter with a cloth nappy as the filter medium to catch the last of the floaty stuff, left it for about an hour, took it out and rinsed it out repeat 3 times.. i can muck up the sand all i want now and it doesn't get cloudy


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Thanks again to all of you. I checked the water levels and everything was perfect. The tank has cleared up in incredible amount in the last few hours. I can actually see the back of the tank now. LOL
=D>

I mean, earlier I could not see my fish at all unless they put their heads up against the glass. Poor babies. 

So, to prevent the cloudiness when I add water back to the tank after a water change, I should just slowly add the water with a bucket? I hate to go through this cloudiness every time I do a water change. I understand it's going to get somewhat cloudy after being stirred, but I just mean for adding the water. And hopefully it won't be THIS much cloud.

I am already loving the new look vs the gravel though!


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

I have sand and I add water with a hose. It doesn't get cloudy.

I have to get my hand in there and swish around the sand a lot to get it to even cloud a little now.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

You shouldn't have the problem with cloudiness unless you go and stir up the substrate. (The stuff that settled had to go somewhere.)


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

*sigh*
Ok you guys. This is how I woke up to my tank this morning. It had settled before I went to bed but I guess the fish are loving the sand and are throwing it around everywhere (I can tell by the sand being totally uneven all over the tank, LOL)










(please excuse the messy tank...I have not placed their aquascape in until I get this all figured out and this whole process has made a mess!)

So now here is my next question.

Do I continue letting it settle again? (Our filter went NUTS last night...we ended up having to turn it off in the middle of the night when we woke up to it making eerily screeching noises...so I think the sand is killing it with the fish throwing it around like that...)

Or, should I do a 50% water change to try to clear out some of the muck.....let it sit for a couple days and then do it again if necessary?

I cannot believe this is happening. Apparently we didn't rinse the sand NEAR good enough. We rinsed for 4 hours though and I figured with the aragonite, that would be enough.

Thanks you guys for being so patient and helping me out.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Water changes can't hurt. That's what I would do. Aragonite is definitely a pain to get clean.


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## Jab240 (Jun 24, 2007)

you should put some kind of prefilter on your intake. Sand is deadly on filter impellers. Clean out all the sand in your filters before you turn it on again. Not sure where your intake sits but if you can shorten or move it so it sits a little higher it would also help.


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Thanks Jab. My husband was so proud when I just got that response. He had just got done making a prefilter out of a vacuum filter, and cut our intake by about 3 inches.

Guess we are on the right track. Just did a 50% water change and will let the filter run again and see how it goes.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

shoulda used pool filter sand.. only 3/4 mins to wash and heavy.. no worry with cloud or impeller trouble

just put it in my 150


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

We wanted to use PFS but we went to 3 different pool stores, and 3 hardware stores with none of them having it. We resorted to PetSmart after that to purchase the aragonite. There weren't many other options after those stores.

Too late now though, what's done is done and I just have to try to fix it!


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

aww. argonite is a bit prettier though id say.. home depot 5 dollars per 40lb bag.. i used 3 in the shown 150


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Yea, I agree. I do like the look of it.........if I can just get it normal. LOL

How often can water changes be done?


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Daily if need be. I wouldn't do 50% daily, maybe 25-30%.


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## 810Aaron (Apr 19, 2009)

How is everything a full day later? I will be doing the same thing on my 120 Friday, the sand is rinsed and ready sitting next to the tank.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

what i would do is reach in stir up the argonite get it super cloudy and change 70 % water.. get any clay or additives stirred up, then siphon out.. that easy just suck to gunk !!!


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

*810Aaron*, it is still pretty cloudy. We've got our filter plus an in water filter running. It looks better, but nowhere near done yet. We are about to do our water change for today (thanks *jfly*) then I will take a picture and give you guys the update.

What a pain in the neck! If I ever do this to another tank I will be soaking the sand for DAYS just to make sure! Haha


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Almost 3 days in guys, 3 water changes, constant filtering, and we've made what feels like ZERO progress.

This is so frustrating and even moreso when you have noone to blame but yourself for OBVIOUSLY not waiting long enough.

We went and bought a small inflatable pool today just to have the filter from it and have a pool filter running through right now trying to fix this. Good news is that the fish are being very cooperative, are acting like nothing is going on and just swimming around like it's another day in paradise. All water levels have remained healthy as well.


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Ok, the tank looked MUCH better today. We are on our way. However, I did the "test strips" on the tank and the nitrites are on the very small verge of "stress". There is 1 square for "safe" and it is the next box over for "stress".

Should I worry about this, and take steps to fix - or just give it time since it's not a high amount of stress.

OR should I go buy a testing kit and get the exact numbers for the nitrite in order to know what to do next.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

i do recommend a drop type test.. just be patient and dilligent with water changes. itll clear up soon i promise


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Definitely second getting the liquid tests. I'm surprised nitrites would be that high with the amount of water changes you have done in the last few days.


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Ok, I got the test tubes.

Everything is off and I am clueless as to how to fix it. The positive though is that I'm LEARNING!!
I now understand the cycle which I didn't before. I'm understanding how everything works, but now I need to learn how to FIX.

My Ammonia was reading about .25 
Nitrites were at .50!
Nitrates are at 10.
So what should I do? I'm surprised at these #'s as well with the water changes we've made. We've added Stress Coat and Stress Zyme after each water change as well.


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Oh and these numbers are ppm and the ph level was around 8.0.


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm going to go ahead and do a water change (from browsing forum, I'm getting idea this is what needs to be done). But I'm not sure if I need to add anything to the tank.

I will add the typical Stress Coat, and Stress Zyme...........should I add salt as well?


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Ok. Made a water change.

Ammonia is now still reading at .25 but looks like it's color dropped a little bit closer to the 0 mark.
Nitrite is dropped to .25 and Nitrate is down to 5.

Are these #'s ok? Do another water change? What to add?


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## nauTik (Mar 18, 2009)

ladyluck777 said:


> Ok. Made a water change.
> 
> Ammonia is now still reading at .25 but looks like it's color dropped a little bit closer to the 0 mark.
> Nitrite is dropped to .25 and Nitrate is down to 5.
> ...


any trace picked up by the test kit of ammonia or nitrite is not ok. I'm sorry I didn't really read this whole thread, did you cycle your tank before you added these fish?


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Yes, this is a tank that has been running over a year. We made a substrate change on Tuesday and have had some issues with the sand not being cleaned well enough before being put into the tank.

We've been doing water changes, lots of filter work, etc trying to aid this problem - but in the mean time - my levels have become messed up and I'm not sure how to fix it.


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## nauTik (Mar 18, 2009)

ladyluck777 said:


> lots of filter work


I'm guessing that's why your levels are out of whack. Just keep doing water changes, it should be fine.


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

So I shouldn't add anything other than the Stress Coat and Zyme with the water changes? How often should I do them? I've been doing daily, but don't know if I should do more often since the levels are not right. Thanks for your help!


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## FedEXguy (Feb 24, 2005)

I'm no expert, but in the tanks I have, any time I do a major change and/or notice my levels are slightly off for whatever reason, I add a dose of Prime. It's never hurt my fish and it seems to work. Also, for sand cloudiness problems (I also didn't clean my sand enough, either) I will add a product called Acurel F. It's a binder that will gather small particulate matter into clumps that drop to the bottom. A few hours after you add it, just do a small water change by vacuuming the sand. After a few rounds of this over a few days, I can stir my sand up all I want and I won't make the water cloudy for more than a few minutes. I use both of these products in tanks that contain neons, cories, and other sensitive fish, and have never had any problems. Also, the Jack Dempsey I have doesn't mind it either, but he's a tough cookie anyway. Hope this helps!


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## fred.UNLV (May 3, 2007)

ladyluck777 said:


> We wanted to use PFS but we went to 3 different pool stores, and 3 hardware stores with none of them having it. We resorted to PetSmart after that to purchase the aragonite. There weren't many other options after those stores.
> 
> Too late now though, what's done is done and I just have to try to fix it!


Sorry I know this is too late, but just for future reference. I always get my PFS at the Lees pool supply on charleston, between decatur and jones. Good luck on clearing up the tank.


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

*** had really good luck with stess zyme.. prime is a plus


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

fred.unlv.......thanks for the reference. I wish I would have gotten that last week! LOL We went to 2 different Leslie's Pool supplys and 2 NPS, Ace Hardware, and Home Depot with none having it. 

We're starting to make progress. We've had to do water changes every day since last Tuesday. Finally got the water where it needs to be as far as nitrites/ammonia.

Have a pool filter running in the tank and change the filter every day and it's starting to finally clear up.

Jfly, we've been using the Zyme and it seems to have worked. Everything is where it needs to be now. Hopefully no more daily water changes!


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## bayoucichlids (May 19, 2006)

Any pics of the finished product?


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

*bayoucichlids*
We're ALMOST there. About another 2 days before I get the rest of my rock then I will proudly be displaying our work!!!

I appreciate how much everyone has been there for me in this process - it has been a journey!
We had an even MORE crazy time today - a very interesting story that I posted under the "General African Cichlid" thread if anyone is interested.


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## ladyluck777 (Apr 20, 2009)

Ok, here is the end result you guys. 10 days in the making. LOL

Before:









After:
Still having some slight cloudy issues, but I'm just going to give it time. 
















I made them a couple of caves also and this weekend we will be painting the background black on the back of tank. This will take away the bubbled look from the current background.

So: was all of this worth it?
LOL


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## jfly (Feb 17, 2009)

=D> =D> =D>

waaay better


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

Nice!!! :thumb:


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## bayoucichlids (May 19, 2006)

That looks really good! :thumb:

Thanks for the pics!


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