# water change causing ammonia spike.



## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

i just did a 25% WC last night without messing with the sand and added
ammolock, stress coat, epsom salt and baking soda.
i checked the ammonia just after and it seem ok.
i checked again this morning and ammonia is up again.
it looks like ammonia rises everytime i do a partial WC.

im at a lost, i dont know whats causing it. 
the water on the tap also doesnt have that much ammonia.
im using a bucket to fill it with the the powerhead inside it connected
to a highpressure hose (white braided ones from home depot).
should i just use a regular silicone hose?

the tank is a 125gl, with 30gl sump and hob penguin 350.


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

are you sure the tank is properly cycled?


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

the tank has been running for 6months.
it has 10 3" cyphos and some other small fishes in there. 
about 15 total fishes.


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

How long does it take to drop back down after the spike?

Maybe your test kit is bad?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Does the tank typically have zero ammonia and zero nitrites? Does the tank typically have nitrates that slowly increase over the course of time? Does the tank only have ammonia readings right after your water changes?

If the answer to any of those questions is no, then your tank is not fully cycled. If the answer to all of them is yes, then letâ€™s proceedâ€¦

You say your tap water doesnâ€™t have much ammonia in it. While a low reading of nitrates isnâ€™t exceptionally uncommon in tap water, any ammonia reading would startle me. If this is well water, I would question the quality of my well and would want a professionals opinionâ€¦ if this is city water I would notify my water department and ask for an official response. This may be somewhat â€˜over reactingâ€™ to a very low ammonia reading. Iâ€™ve simply never heard of ammonia in tap waterâ€¦

Do you clean your filters when you do a water change? You mentioned â€œwithout messing with the sandâ€


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

now sure how long but probably days.
the test kit is new. its the liquid ones not the stick type.
at first i thought it was only happening when i clean the waste below the 
bio medias but it looks like its spiking hours after water change. 
mind you i only did 25%, last time i did 50% if was up to the range of 4.0ppm and
this one took about 5-days until it was back down to less than 0.2ppm.


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

I would fill a pitcher with tap water, add all your extras (ammolock, etc.) and test the water after it sits for a couple hours.

If it comes out clean, you have a cycle issue.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Where exactly in T.O are you? I am in Scarborough and have no problem with amonia in the water, and like Toby would be very surprised if city water contained any.


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## Dj823cichild (Mar 30, 2009)

Hmm I'm intrested in my water now I will test it tomorrow. I tested it once for nitrAte and it came out 5ppm. But my tanks both are at 5ppm so I'm good I'm a water change and gravel junkie now lol. :lol:


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

toby, i hope i answer all your questions:

ammonia: usually around .1
nitrate: around 10-20ppm and increases overtime.
nitrite; not sure.

ammonia seems to increase few hrs after wc.
ammonia in tap water is very very low. still well in the light yellow range. and 
my tank water turns light green after 12hr of wc.

i dont clean my drains and return line and sometimes clean the hob when necessary.
i do vacuum the sand every two weeks.
i add the conditioners on the bucket (5ml/bucket) then some on the tank itself
and some near the end of the fill up.

i will fill a pitcher and see if it shows anything.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

i did the pitcher test and it came out ok.










the 1st one is from the pitcher after 12 hrs.
2nd is from the tank (at 12hr after water change, this was green) after 36hrs.
3rd is from tank, its for nitrate. its usually a bit lighter than this.

the only thing i did for the pitcher test is im using a new bottle of ammolock. the other one 
ran out. it seems i will have to do another tank water change with this new ammolock bottle to
rule it out as a culprit.

if water turns green again, i will try the next one without the hose im using to fill it up.
does this sounds like a plan?


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

sounds good!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Depending on the age of the old bottle, it may not have been neutralizing the chlorimine ... only the chlorine part of it, leaving the ammonia?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Ammolock breaks the chlorine+ammonia bond, and then binds the ammonia into non toxic 
ammonium. Either way, whether it successfully binds the ammonia or not, ammonia and ammonium will both show up on most ammonia test kits. The only ones that show 'free' vs. 'bound' ammonia are the ones that say so specifically on the box. There aren't many of those out there. Seachem makes one.

It's possible that chloramine is the source of your ammonia readings after water changes, but 4ppm seems awfully high. Have you checked your local water supplier report? They can usually be found online.

Some ammonia from chloramine after water changes is common in aquariums and not a big problem if you're using something like Ammolock to 'bind' it and detox it until your biofilter can convert it. You may want to pick up that Seachem kit to prove it out, but I"ve tested Ammolock with the Seachem kit and it does bind it up like it says it does.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Does stress coat remove chloramine?
I use prime when doing water changes and have no problems with Toronto water.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

thanks provs,
according to the pitcher test after 12hrs (same elapse time as the tank when it showed high level of ammonia) it shows acceptable level. but this was not filled up with the hose but just 
straight trom tap. is it possible that the hose im using is somehow affected with something that causing ammonia because i never wash it with warm water after use. *** read somewhere that some types of hose (garden hose) are not to be used for doing water change.

am i suppose to look if my water contains chloramine? if so, its normal to see
ammonia spike due to chloramine even after adding additives that gets rid of it?

btw, i have never lost a fish due to water change.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Where exactly in T.O are you? 
Does stress coat remove chloramine?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> is it possible that the hose im using is somehow affected with something that causing ammonia because i never wash it with warm water after use. I've read somewhere that some types of hose (garden hose) are not to be used for doing water change.


Easy enough to test. Do a water change with a clean bucket that's only been used for fish stuff.



> am i suppose to look if my water contains chloramine? if so, its normal to see
> ammonia spike due to chloramine even after adding additives that gets rid of it?


Yes, I would check and get a copy of your water quality report. It's good to have and know for a lot of reasons.

And yes, if you have chloramine in your tap water, then you can get an ammonia reading. But, again, 4ppm seems very high to me to be from chloramine. But, we have chlorine in our tap here, not chloramine, so don't have first hand experience with testing that out.



> Does stress coat remove chloramine?


Claims it does, yes.

See Stress Coat


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## morfeus077 (May 9, 2009)

mel_cp6 said:


> i just did a 25% WC last night without messing with the sand and added
> ammolock, stress coat, epsom salt and baking soda...


If your tank has been running that long, the ammolock is your culprit - it will show up on a test as amonia. Suggestion - stop using ammolock, it's only intended for use in an emergency anyway and since your tank is cycled you don't need it. Also, drop the stress coat and switch to Seachem's Prime. It's a better product and you get more water treatment for your money anyway.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

ok, my next water change will not have ammolock.


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## jvwilson101 (Aug 26, 2009)

If your tank has been running that long, the ammolock is your culprit - it will show up on a test as amonia. Suggestion - stop using ammolock, it's only intended for use in an emergency anyway and since your tank is cycled you don't need it. Also, drop the stress coat and switch to Seachem's Prime. It's a better product and you get more water treatment for your money 
anyway.[/quote]

New to the forum here gals and guys, wonderful place this to brainstorm and come up with solutions to problems with the fish we all love... Anyhow, the above statement is spot on. Ammock will absolutely show a false positive for NH3/4. Prime rules for so many reasons!!


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Anyhow, the above statement is spot on. Ammock will absolutely show a false positive for NH3/4. Prime rules for so many reasons!!





> If your tank has been running that long, the ammolock is your culprit - it will show up on a test as amonia.


Gotta disagree with both of you. Ammolock and Prime break the chlorine/ammonia bond (if chloramine is present instead of just chlorine) and then bind up the ammonia(NH3) that's been freed up into ammonium(NH4+ ionized ammonia). They also use sodium thiosulfate to deal with the free chlorine. They work the same way and do the same thing.

There are some test kits that will give false positives on ammonia right after a water change, but the reason is the test kit, not the detox product. See this info.

Switching to Prime will work fine, but now you'll be left with the erroneous idea that Ammolock is a problem and Prime is the solution. If the false positive is from the chloramine and/or the test kits or anything else, then it'll happen whether you use Prime or Ammolock.

Speaking of Prime, my main gripe with it is that it adds an irritant that stimulates fish to increase the protective coating of mucus to defend against it. Why would anyone want to do that to fish? Ammolock also binds up more ammonia than Prime. And it does it without the addition of some irritant to fish. You find the same claim on a lot of these 'conditoner' products. Just gives the marketing people something else they can boast about on the bottle to try to set their product apart from the rest, I think. Some even add a synthetic slime instead of stimulating fish to increase their own. Always question the hype on the bottles. I prefer a product that simply deals with the specific thing I'm trying to deal with.

Found this on Seachem's site:

_PrimeÂ® detoxifies nitrite *and nitrate*, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them._

Detoxes nitrate so biofilter can efficiently remove it??? There's a lot wrong with that claim. Even if we're talking anaerobic activity in a saltwater setup, then I'd still like to hear more specifics on what exactly Prime does to allow the more efficient removal of nitrates. No harm in making questionable claims, but they lose credibility, at least with me.

Here's some more info on conditioners.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

hey prov.
my water does contain chloramine.


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## cichlidpastor (Jun 20, 2009)

noddy said:


> Does stress coat remove chloramine?
> I use prime when doing water changes and have no problems with Toronto water.


The older stress coat does not. But the newer stuff, Stress Coat+ they call it, does. Anything other than Stress Coat+ just check the bottle and see it it removes both chlorine and chloramines.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

mel_cp6 said:


> hey prov.
> my water does contain chloramine.


Yes, I remember you said it did, and it could be the source of an ammonia reading, but 4ppm seems high. Hard to say since I don't have a source of water with chloramines myself to test it out with. Maybe someone else could offer what they've seen.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

i actually just got an email and my region
does NOT have chloramine or ammonia added to the tap water.
now what?
now that my water does not contain chloramine, i remember you (prov) 
saying that you have a recipe that can get rid of chlorine without the use
of water additives.



> Mel,Thank you for contacting the Region. The municipal water supplies in the Region of Peel are chlorinated and not chloraminated. The secondary disinfection process involves addition of free chlorine; ammonia is not added to water. For more information on water quality in Peel, I suggest you visit the Region of Peel website. I have attached a link to the Water Quality Reports for your review.
> 
> http://www.peelregion.ca/pw/water/quality/reports/2008/


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

You can get sodium thiosulfate crystals and mix with spring or distilled water to make a dechlorinator. I got mine at The Chemistry Store. I had to buy two of the 2LB jars because there's a minimum $10 order.

Here's the instructions:

*Mix*
Add 4 ounces (by weight) Sodium Thiosulfate to 1 gallon of water.

*Use*
Add 1 drop of concentrate per gallon of water to be treated.

Just don't mix up a gallon at a time because once mixed it has about a 6 month shelf life. The crystals will last a very long time.

So, if you're going to mix up say 1 pint, then you need 1/2 ounce of crystals since there are 8 pints in a gallon (1/8th of 4 ounces). How much is an ounce of crystals? Easiest way to determine is to get a small scale like a postal or food portion scale.

HTH but still doesn't explain your ammonia readings. Only deepens the mystery.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

> HTH but still doesn't explain your ammonia readings. Only deepens the mystery.


tell me about it.
if its not the ammolock and not chloramine, it has to be an equipment im using.
its most likely the hose. it cant be the bucket.
remember at 1st we thought it was the way i cleaned the waste under the scrub media, 
but it looks like its the water change causing it all along. 
now i just have to figure out what the heck is going on.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Just try a water change without the hose. When you filled a bucket with your tap, no ammonia. That's excludes the tap as the source, I think. Must be equipment. Try a change without the hose.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

oops, just an hour to late prov.
just did a wc but without using ammolock. 
i did however ran hot water to the hose (last time i used it) 
and will have to wait for the result.
if this shows ammonia reading, then i will do it without the hose.
i dont have enough time today and 6-8 buckets of 5 gal will take 
a while.

btw, i did the nitrate and ammonia just before wc and its good.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

ok here is the ammonia result.
very low, same color as the pic from before.

now the only thing i did this time is NOT put ammolock. 
also, i used the same hose but cleaned it with hot water last time i used it.

water is still clear. not cloudy at all.
i used stress coat, baking soda and epsom salt and salt.

next water change will include the ammolock with the same hose.
if it turns green, then will know that it is the ammolock.
but if it does turn green, is it really ammonia or just false reading by test kit due to the 
ammolock?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

If that happens, I'd contact API and check with them. Maybe there's something in there that they're not telling us about. That's all I can think of. But it makes no sense and is contrary to what I've experienced when using it. I add it to water with chlorine alone and never get the ammonia readings. I really don't think it's the ammolock unless it's reacting with something specific to your water. But, I can't think what that would be.

Keep in mind also that you rinsed the hose with hot water, so you introduced a second variable.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

I would think that after 12 hours, if there was any ammonia, regardless of it's form, the biofilter would have consumed it. Assuming the test kit is accurate, I would be looking at the filtration.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

btw, this is a new bottle (other one ran out). and yes by cleaning the hose it may have changed everything.
but if the next time i use it with the same hose and ammolock and i get no reading, then
i'll be extremely happy. 
plus, we'll know that the way i was cleaning the waste under the biomedia is 
not doing any harm. which is also good news.

but unfortunately, i will have to add ammolock just to be certain if it 
is in any way affecting the ammonia reading. 
last time i added ammolock, water was cloudy for days.
and today, its still clear. that should tell us something.

but anyways, we'll have to wait till the next wc.

also the last time i got the water report i could've swore i saw chloramine in there.
but the email was from the supervisor itself, so it should'nt have it according to that person.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

What test kit are you using? I know it's a drop kit, but whose?



> also the last time i got the water report i could've swore i saw chloramine in there.
> but the email was from the supervisor itself, so it should'nt have it according to that person.


Be sure on the chloramine. If it says so on the water report, call them back and question it.



> last time i added ammolock, water was cloudy for days.
> and today, its still clear. that should tell us something.


Doesn't tell you anything conclusive. Be cautious about jumping to conclusions. You just need to continue to take a methodical approach to this by only changing one thing at a time when doing water changes. You'll eventually deterimine the source of the ammonia. Don't decide the source and then try to find evidence to support what you've decided it must be. Sounds like you're more and more convinced it's the ammolock, and it may turn out to be something in the ammolock reacting with something in your water. Or something in your test kits reacting with something in the Ammolock. But until you can be certain, saying so may only perpetuate another aquarium myth.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

> I would think that after 12 hours, if there was any ammonia, regardless of it's form, the biofilter would have consumed it. Assuming the test kit is accurate, I would be looking at the filtration.


last time i did a wc, i had ammonia reading for at least 2 days. going from dark green 
to light green. on the 3rd day it was finally back to yellow.

todays test was actually a very light yellow. so almost no trace of ammonia.

im using a brand new API test kit.

im not jumping to conclusion just yet. it couldve been just that one bottle or it is the hose.
but for now, we have to wait until i do another change with ammolock and the same hose.
if its green, i will do another change again without the ammolock just to be certain.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

well just to update everyone.
i havent used ammolock as a water conditioner and water hasnt had any ammonia reading and its always clear after wc. i havent had any issues since i stopped using ammolock so i figure why bother doing any further test. 
ammonia and nitrate are always within low range even after 2 wks without wc change.
ammonia is yellow and nitrate is always a very light orange.

thanks for everyones help and input.
i really appreciate it.


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## TangSteve (Sep 20, 2009)

Depending on the test kits Ammo removing products can you give you a false positive.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

thats what i was thinking but the water was always cloudy at the same
time for days after using ammolock.


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

well i thought i had this figured out but i guess not.

so *** been doing water change without adding ammolock with success until my last one.
i did my wc with stress coat only and after 24hrs ammonia test kit shows 1ppm.
48 hrs later it was back to 0.1ppm.

on sat night i added seven 5-8" mpimbwes to my current stock. i know its overstock but i will be getting rid of the 8 smaller ones. 
*** been doing ammonia test every 12 hrs or so for 2 days with no spike whatsover.

then i did my wc and thats when i got the ammonia reading.
i did however did not rinse my braided hose with warm water prior to wc.

so we now know that its not my the ammolock, not my tap water and now im almost
100 positive that its my braided hose. i think after it sits for a couple of weeks and i use it
to do wc, it has some ammonia build up inside it. does this make any sense?
i will try again with rinsing it before i use for a few more time and 1 without rinsing it just to see how it goes.

btw, if there was ammonia spike after adding livestock, it should be rising instead of decreasing right?


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## peter6969.pom (3 mo ago)

I have a safe product that im useing, and something strange has happen, I use a 15 liter bucket for my water change, and I decided to test the clean water after put the safe in the clean water, before put it in my tank, the strange thing is the clean water in the bucket is saying its high in ammonia. But its clean water, so I tested the tap water is was fine, I use this same product for my other tanks and they have no ammonia in them, so have I bought a product that has gone off, or isxit something to do with mixing with my water


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Welcome to C-F @peter6969.pom !

Is your 15 liter bucket brand new or is it one that you have been using for your regular water changes? If it is a new bucket, it's possible the material it is made of is the issue.

What is the exact name of the safe product you are using in case it is not Seachem Safe?


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