# Tanganyika 140 gal stocking



## peter-trnava

I would like to ask you for confirmation or advice regarding stocking of my 140 gal 70" long tank.
I plan to have breeding pair/groups of following species:
N.buescheri
N.leleupi 
N.tretocephalus
A.calvus or compressiceps - what are pros & cons?
N.multifasciatus or simillis - what are pros & cons?
Julidochromis transcriptus or others?
Telmatochromis - maybe?
Paracyprichromis or other "free water swimmers"

Any ideas are welcome, many thx in advance.


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## DJRansome

Maybe a little over-ambitious for a 70" tank, but here are some comments.

Trets have a rep that they will kill all in the tank, including each other, when they spawn. For this reason, I went with a single tret in my tank and he still caused trouble. He is gone.

Leleupi will bother/kill the shellies during their attempts to get the fry...even the adults. Mine even killed my caudopunctatus. They are gone.

Once you get rid of those two you have a more workable plan. Not sure about the buescheri or telmatochromis.


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## peter-trnava

Thx for comments, what about Chalinochromis? 
What is the best alternative of leleupi?


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## Fogelhund

Which Telmatochromis are we talking about here?

I don't know what fish you have kept before, but substrate spawners typically need space for their territories, and will take as much territory as they can, so you'll need to "manage" their territory by having distinct rock piles.

In a tank that is just slightly less than 6', you should be able to manage four territories, if you include one shell dweller species.

With your list

N.buescheri 
A.calvus or compressiceps - what are pros & cons? 
N.multifasciatus or simillis - what are pros & cons? 
Julidochromis transcriptus or others?

I can see this working out. In a community tank, you are better off with multifasciatus than similis. The multi's colonize better, and protect their fry as a group. The similis tend to get theirs picked off.

No issues with either calvus or compressiceps, though they may attempt to eat fry... they'll get some, but a good colony of multifasciatus should grow anyway.

Julidochromis transcriptus or the dwarf marlieri Gombe would be my choice.

Neolamprologus buescheri are a great fish, one of my favourites, but also can be challenging due to aggressive behaviour once paired. You will really need to segregate their territory from others.

I would drop the Paracyp's as they are more rock dwellers, and go with Cyprichromis leptosoma of some variant.


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## triscuit

Agree with the above, but want to reiterate a large school of Cyprichromis (15-25) would be terrific. :thumb:

-Avoid the big julies (marlieri, regani, and dickfeldi- but Gombe variants, transcriptus and ornatus are fine)

- Start with 6 of the altos, neolamps and julies in order to get a smaller number that will coexist.

- Multies are my favorite shelly. Get 5 or more to start, and give them 4-6 shells per fish. Stack the shells in a loose pile- females often will choose lower level shells for spawning. Keep the shell bed at least 8" away from any rocks or plants.


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## peter-trnava

Thx for your advices. Based on it I will preliminary go for 
N.buescheri
A.calvus or compressiceps - still not decided
N.multifasciatus 
J. transcriptus Pemba, if will be available, 2nd choice will be J.marlieri Gombe but I like ornatus as well 

Are there any alternative for Cyprichromis?

Is it possible to have two species of shellies (ocellatus or other living in pairs) in my tank? I like to observe them


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## peter-trnava

1st pic of my new tank


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## triscuit

peter-trnava said:


> Thx for your advices. Based on it I will preliminary go for
> N.buescheri
> A.calvus or compressiceps - still not decided
> N.multifasciatus
> J. transcriptus Pemba, if will be available, 2nd choice will be J.marlieri Gombe but I like ornatus as well
> 
> Are there any alternative for Cyprichromis?
> 
> Is it possible to have two species of shellies (ocellatus or other living in pairs) in my tank? I like to observe them


2 shellies can be done, but with specific species. You could add brevis in with the multies, for example. But I would avoid the occelatus types as being too territorial for another shelly.

Cyps are pretty unique in their open water behaviors; sometimes Paracyprichromis are used, but they like the rocks quite a bit. With choosing 3 rock dwellers, I don't think you'll have good luck with paracyps, but cyps are still a viable option.


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## speakerman3

It wouldn't be a true Tanganyikan-only tank, but you could introduce an upper-strata dither fish. I have australian rainbows as a dither fish in one of my tanks with Tanganyikans (leleupi), and they do fine. The cichlids basically ignore them, and the rainbows are fast enough to get away when they swim too close to a rock pile. Of course giant danios and a few others will also work. I would think that many of the Malawi haps or peacocks might fill in that gap, too, if you aren't worried about being unorthodox.


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## DJRansome

Many of the haps and peacocks, if not all, are going to be unhappy with those Tangs.


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## peter-trnava

Nice discussion, thank God I have still time to decide.
Have a look on my DIY BG. Finally it will go up by 5-6 cm. Left side covered with sand. Missing part in front of overflow.


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## dielikemoviestars

Is the BG intentionally only half painted? Or is it just a work-in-progress? Can't wait to see how this tank turns out.


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## peter-trnava

BG is in work-in process, apologize to confuse. Full area will be covered by sand, no painted, I was only trying if will fit in tank


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## peter-trnava

I draw 1st draft of layout and kindly ask you for comment if it will fit needs of selected fishes.
Short description:
3D DIY background and rock piles (left and righ side) for altos, julies and paracyps
A zone -shellies ocellatus like spec
B zone - shellies multies
Cyps will ocupate open water and front/middle part
Tank will planted with anubias, microsorium and mosses.


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## triscuit

Great graphics- but I have a few suggestions.

1. You have three rock dwelling species listed- to get those three to live peacefully, they will need very distinct territories. That is going to require much more open space in your tank. Consolidate your rocks into 4 piles, with small, narrow caves incorporated. Between each pile you will need at least 8" of open sand.

The scale here is 1 square = 3", and I've made the tank 72x18"









2. To maximize territory space, your rocks will need to be flat or replaced with caves. Stacked slate is popular for this reason. There are several brands of caves that look natural, or you can carefully chose angular and flat rocks to create caves.

2. With three rock dwellers, you'll only have room for 1 shell dweller... not that occelatus types would tolerate another shelly anyway. If you decide you'd rather have two shellies, then pick from multies *OR* similis with brevis as the second species.

This is just from my experience, and I'm sure other folks have either had better or worse luck with your suggested combination of fish. opcorn:


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## peter-trnava

TY vm for very valuable comments and clear scheme.
Here I have more questions:
1. Shell bed - is it necessarily to keep distance from glass?
2. Does it make sense to create robust BG with lot of caves & rifts? (as I already built)
3. Are there any rules how tall have to be rock pile?


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## triscuit

you're welcome 

1. No problem. Particularly with multies, you can pile the shells up to the glass.

2. Yes- but be careful that your distinct territories are still distinct. After you get fish in there, you may find an aggressive fish claiming the whole background length across the bottom. If you can, limit any spawning type territory in the bottom 8 inches of the background.

3. No limit- except safety. You can make the piles as short or high as you like, as long as there's no danger of collapse or rocks falling into glass. Note the appropriate size of crevice/caves for each fish (for example, calvus like upright slits).


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## peter-trnava

triscuit said:


> you're welcome
> 
> If you can, limit any spawning type territory in the bottom 8 inches of the background.


Do you mean to cut out all caves, rifts ...?


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## triscuit

Hmm. Having flat places where fish can't hide would help, along with limiting any cover or structure near the bottom. In my diagram, there's no structure along the back between the corners. I think you could still plant through the middle, but maybe just not all the way down. This will be a bit of trial and error, but start with leaving some empty space in front of the background through the central part of the tank.

btw- your DIY background looks fabulous- can you post some larger pictures of it?


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## triscuit

peter-trnava said:


> triscuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> you're welcome
> 
> If you can, limit any spawning type territory in the bottom 8 inches of the background.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean to cut out all caves, rifts ...?
Click to expand...

Yes... I mean make it flatter. But please post a larger picture of the real background.


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## peter-trnava

As i wrote it will finally go up by approx 2 inches.


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## triscuit

I think that will be flat enough... especially when raised. It's uneven enough to provide cover for harassed fish, but I don't see anything there that would necessarily be claimed as territory. :thumb:

Keep in mind that all of this is just my opinion, and fish tend to be unpredictable. opcorn: I can't wait to see your finished tank, though. It's looking good!


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## peter-trnava

triscuit said:


> I think that will be flat enough... especially when raised. It's uneven enough to provide cover for harassed fish, but I don't see anything there that would necessarily be claimed as territory. :thumb:


...even if in "B" zone are deep caves suitable for spawning but they are not visible due low pic quality? Relatively deep rifts are in left 1/3. 
To be sure about distinct territories I will think how to cut it to more pieces. You suggestions are more than welcome =D>


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## triscuit

Because they are raised, I think you'll be okay. I have somewhat similar structure in a background I did 6 years ago:









And the caves have never been claimed other than as refuges for chased fish. The caves closer to substrate tend to be the most popular ones for my breeding lamprologines and julidochromis.


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## peter-trnava

Hmm, ok I will cut only "spawning" points in the bottom part and will provide new pics. opcorn:


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## frontosaSo

I have Multies, Brevis, caudopunctatus, and Occelatus in my 125g. The Causd's love the large conk shells. My black Occelatus are much more aggressive than my gold Occelatus. they live in harmony and know their roll within the colony of tangs. I will say this, they were all Juvies and introduced at the SAME time from the start. I believe this makes a world of difference with the shellies. I have a plant forest,If you will, in the middle of the 125 and lace rock cave systems to keep the other Tangs happy on either side of the forest. Just a little advice. 
Good luck!


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## xWingman48

frontosaSo said:


> I have Multies, Brevis, caudopunctatus, and Occelatus in my 125g. The Causd's love the large conk shells. My black Occelatus are much more aggressive than my gold Occelatus. they live in harmony and know their roll within the colony of tangs. I will say this, they were all Juvies and introduced at the SAME time from the start. I believe this makes a world of difference with the shellies. I have a plant forest,If you will, in the middle of the 125 and lace rock cave systems to keep the other Tangs happy on either side of the forest. Just a little advice.
> Good luck!


Do you have a picture of this setup? I'm contemplating a similar stocking list in my 125, and I'd love to see the layout. Thanks!


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## peter-trnava

frontosaSo said:


> I have Multies, Brevis, caudopunctatus, and Occelatus in my 125g. The Causd's love the large conk shells. My black Occelatus are much more aggressive than my gold Occelatus. they live in harmony and know their roll within the colony of tangs. I will say this, they were all Juvies and introduced at the SAME time from the start. I believe this makes a world of difference with the shellies. I have a plant forest,If you will, in the middle of the 125 and lace rock cave systems to keep the other Tangs happy on either side of the forest. Just a little advice.
> Good luck!


Sounds very optimistically for me. I am still dreaming about 2nd shellies for my tank. I hope brevis will be reasonable choice placed in left front corner.


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## ahud

frontosaSo said:


> I have Multies, Brevis, caudopunctatus, and Occelatus in my 125g. The Causd's love the large conk shells. My black Occelatus are much more aggressive than my gold Occelatus. they live in harmony and know their roll within the colony of tangs. I will say this, they were all Juvies and introduced at the SAME time from the start. I believe this makes a world of difference with the shellies. I have a plant forest,If you will, in the middle of the 125 and lace rock cave systems to keep the other Tangs happy on either side of the forest. Just a little advice.
> Good luck!


You should start a thread telling about the tank. I currently have Brevis, multis, and caudpunks in a 125g, but the tank is not mature enough to talk about. I have always liked mixing shellies and I really like how my Brevis and multis interact with each other.

Back to the original topic! Your tank is looking great man. Playing with territories is key. I redid my 125g scape and it changed the whole dynamic of the tank. So don't be afraid to try some controversial stocking (as long as its reasonable) if you are willing to play with the aquascape. I'm having a hard time getting my brevis established in their shell area. The excess male multis are taking the isolated shells that I left for the brevis.


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## speakerman3

If you are still wondering about compatibility of different species, the following is a great starting point.
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/cichlidcha ... hartd.html


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## peter-trnava

ahud said:


> .....I'm having a hard time getting my brevis established in their shell area. The excess male multis are taking the isolated shells that I left for the brevis.


I plan to put multies with their shell bed and after their accommodation I will add brevis with their shells. Will it works?


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## shellies215

You should be adding lots of shells, more than you think they can use.


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## peter-trnava

Yesterday I collected a plenty of shells (more than 100) so don't worry about shells. :thumb:


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## peter-trnava

I re-worked BG to create distinct territories (marked with red dashes line) in order. Territories are separate by flat areas.
On layout you can see 9 territories (in ideal life). Hope fish will recognize them as well  
BG is in progress, light parts will be covered with sand.


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## peter-trnava

I think that one species of sand sifter will be good choice for my stocking list. 
Could you recommend me some family or species and describe consequences for my current stocking list?


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## 24Tropheus

Not sure I would add a sand sifter but if you do prob best to go for one that will stand up for itself like a Callochromis.

All the best James


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## peter-trnava

BG update 
Left part almost done
Black sand could give more depth to whole BG


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## peter-trnava

*1st draft set up*








3 distinct territories using DIY fake rocks (PU foam + stone core)


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## Anthraxx8500

really cool look. hope the stock list works out. each person can have varied results with identical stock lists. GL to ya!


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## peter-trnava

TY, hope to. Tank is in cycling, I have still time to finalize stock list 
Question is if to put fishes at once or sequentially- which species in 1st round, 2nd ...?


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## shellies215

It depend on how you are cycling, If you are using pure ammonia to cycle, when you reach the point when it will process 2-3 ppm ammonia into 0 ppm ammonia/0 ppm nitrite in 24 hours AND you are getting a nitrate reading starting to rise, it is safe to add all fish at once.

If you are using any other method than 100% pure ammonia/fishless, you will have to add fish slowly and monitor levels.


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## shellies215

I just noticed you are in slovakia, ppm is equal to mg/L if that's how your tests read.


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## peter-trnava

Its clear, thx. 

I am asking whether making territories / brand hierarchy depends on the order of introduction of each species into tank, what is the best approach?


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## shellies215

Usually, you would add the least aggressive species first, so they have a chance to get established before adding any species that would otherwise prevent them from claiming territory.


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## peter-trnava

Could you help me to make order based on aggressivity:
Cyprichromis
Paracyprichromis
N.multifasciatus
A.calvus / compressiceps 
J. transcriptus / J.marlieri Gombe / ornatus


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## Fogelhund

I would go Paracyps and multi's first. You can add the rest once those have been in the tank for a month or so.


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## peter-trnava

Many thx


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## peter-trnava

Update after planting


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## starplayer

That looks fantastic. Well done. Obviously we only get a 2 dimensional image of your tank. In my experience Julis are secretive and I do not see a great amount of caves; likewise I cannot see any shells also. It looks a perfect tank for cyps, paracyps and caudopunks. I am about to set my 4x2x2 up within the next 4 weeks and have bookmarked this page for inspiration. Thanks.


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## peter-trnava

You are absolutely right, caves are invisible but all bigger rocks in rock piles have a few small caves at mating face. Shells will be added soon.  
Many thx for support & I am proud to inspire you.


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## starplayer

Well, if that is the case you will have a very interesting tank. Please keep the updates coming. These long threads provide so much to beginners and experienced aquarists.


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## peter-trnava

These pic were taken by my BB, I plan to make better one with DSLR  I hope more details will be visible.
Thanks to Fogelhunds advice I will introduce paracyps & multies (next week) first, after a few months the rest.


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## zade

speakerman3 said:


> If you are still wondering about compatibility of different species, the following is a great starting point.
> http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/cichlidcha ... hartd.html


That's quite the handy little tool!

This thread was rather helpful not to mention interesting as all "get out."

The tank looks great, make sure you keep the rest of us up to date!


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## peter-trnava

After fishless cycling and test with Endler's guppy multies finally floating above shellies bad. Paracyps will follow by end of week.

Staurogyne sp. were added. Its quite strong plant, hope it will survive in my Tangs tank.
Pics from one of my miniaquas


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## peter-trnava




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## Pizzle

Lamprologus multifasciatus! Sweet! That background is fantastic. Thanks for the pics.


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## xWingman48

That's the biggest multi only tank I've ever seen! 

Great pics. I love the way the background turned out and I can't wait to see more pics as the stocking progresses.


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## zade

Beautiful tank! Keep the pics coming. Love play by play threads! :thumb:


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## peter-trnava

Dear all, thx you for positive feedback.

I am close to decision about calvus or comps or to combine (to be aware of http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/cichlidcha ... hartd.html)
However I have question if you have experience with keeping this two species in one tank? 
I am considering 6 Black pectoral & 6 comps red fin.
Many thx for any suggestions.


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## Fogelhund

The tank looks great. I would recommend just one type of Altolamprologus. They will treat the other males as conspecifics and competition, and hybridization is probable.


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## peter-trnava

Finally I decide about cyps. I will go for 20 pcs of Cyprichromis microlepidotus KASAI. They are so beautiful.


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## peter-trnava

Yesterday I added 20 pcs Cyprichromis microlepidotus KASAI and 10 pcs Altolamprologus compressiceps Ã¢â‚¬Å¾RedÃ¢â‚¬Å".

Current stocklist:
20 Cyprichromis microlepidotus KASAI
15 Paracyprichromis nigripinnis blue neon
6 Lamprologus multifasciatus
10 Julidochromis transcriptus KELEME
10 Altolamprologus compressiceps Ã¢â‚¬Å¾RedÃ¢â‚¬Å"

Pics will follow


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## cjvo2

Beautiful Setup, love the background ...... Awesome picture, thank for sharing


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## xWingman48

Now that you have the tank stocked, we would all love to see some pictures!


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## Floridagirl

Beautiful tank!


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## peter-trnava

I finalized stand during weekend 









Overview of tankmates


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## Deeda

Very, very nice!!!! Your build turned out beautiful, the doors and canopy finish it off well.

I'm looking forward to seeing this tank mature and the fish color up better than what they are now.

Thank you so much for sharing with us.


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## peter-trnava

Many thx, fishes are so young, they need time to color up. The later the better


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## peter-trnava

Julidochromis transcriptus KELEME

















Paracyprichromis nigripinnis BLUE NEON

























Cyprichromis microlepidotus KASAI - currently "Sardinas" :lol: 

















Altolamprologus compressiceps RED









Lamprologus multifasciatus


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## Pizzle

Those last pictures are great. I see that all of the thought and work that you put into this tank is finally starting to pay back.


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## Norm66

:thumb:


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## peter-trnava

I found a few multies fry today when I come back from short holiday. Fishes did not lose time =D>


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## starplayer

Well, you deserve to be rewarded for your efforts and planning. Tank and stock look great.


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## peter-trnava

starplayer said:


> Well, you deserve to be rewarded for your efforts and planning. Tank and stock look great.


Many thx


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## triscuit

I've been very impressed from the get go- please keep updating this thread for us! =D>


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## peter-trnava

A few details regarding daily care/life:
*Biotop:* Shallow rocky coast habitat
*Filtration:* sump 650 x 500 x 400mm, pump Eheim compact+ 3000 ( 1500 l / hour in height 1,5m)
*Lighting: *3 x 28W 6500K, 10 hours /day
*No air pump* (enough water aeration from pump outflow) *& no heater* 
*Feeding:* twice a day, morning Sera flakes, evening frozen cyclops, later brine shrimps planned
*Water change: *26 gal /week


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## peter-trnava

A few new pics:
Tank is maturing









Julie









Alto comp









Paracyp is coloring up


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## mel_cp6

awesome job, from start to finish.


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## peter-trnava

Thx :fish:


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## peter-trnava

Front view








..some issue with light and colours


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## peter-trnava

I played with camera settings try to take better pic
Colours are more realistic


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## peter-trnava

I do have question, do you suggest small corydoras as a good BTM tank mates for Tanganyika community tank?


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## DJRansome

Cories often get beat-up by African cichlids and the fish prefer different water parameters...I'd start another tank for them.

You have multies for the bottom...is there a reason you were thinking about the cories?


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## peter-trnava

I would like to have fihes that will clean feed from BTM. I don't like ancistrus, they are so big and could disturb multies but julies during spawning as well. Due to these reasons I was thinking about small cories.


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## starplayer

I am not sure you have the space bit do you think a sandsifter could do the job?


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## DJRansome

Synodontis will disturb shellies. But bristlenose plecos (ancistrus) stay small and will not bother any of the fish. They also do better with Africans from the Rift Lakes than cories.


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## peter-trnava

starplayer said:


> I am not sure you have the space bit do you think a sandsifter could do the job?


Currently there is not enough space for sandsifters but I am still dreaming about Enantiopus kilesa. May be in short future I will take out one rock pile and make space for them.


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## peter-trnava

DJRansome said:


> Synodontis will disturb shellies. But bristlenose plecos (ancistrus) stay small and will not bother any of the fish. They also do better with Africans from the Rift Lakes than cories.


OK, I have to check small ancistrus e.g. Ancistrus tamboensis. Many thx fro help. :thumb:


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## Floridagirl

I'm going to try some nerirte snails for algae control in my tanks.


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## peter-trnava

I am considering to add a few pieces of the red-rimmed melania (Melanoides tuberculata) as well.


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## xWingman48

peter-trnava said:


> I am considering to add a few pieces of the red-rimmed melania (Melanoides tuberculata) as well.


Those look a lot like trumpet snails to me. You may want to consider nerites instead, as they won't breed in freshwater. Trumpet snails breed FAST and turn into a nightmarish mess in your tank.

I've got thousands in my Malawi tank, all from a hitchhiker that came in on a plant, and I can't figure out how to get rid of them completely. I may actually have to break down the tank completely and dry everything out to really get rid of them.


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## peter-trnava

Many thx for advice, I am aware about risk of outbreak. I think it depend on feeding (over-feeding).
You can use biological weapon - well known Snail-eating Snail Clea (Anentome) helena for outbreak control.


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## xWingman48

peter-trnava said:


> Many thx for advice, I am aware about risk of outbreak. I think it depend on feeding (over-feeding).
> You can use biological weapon - well known Snail-eating Snail Clea (Anentome) helena for outbreak control.


I actually have a few clown loaches in the tank, which devour trumpets WAY faster than assassin snails do. They can't come close, however, to the trememdous breeding power of the trumpet snails. Crawl around this forum a bit and search for "getting rid of trumpet snails". I would be very wary of intentionally introducing them to a tank.

I really don't think their breeding has anything to do with the amount you're feeding. I've cut drastically back on feeding in the past and didn't notice any difference in the snail population. Your tank is beautiful at the moment, and I'd hate to see it overrun with a plague of snails.

Overpopulation aside, I think Nerite snails are also better at algae control. One snail per 10 gallons of tank does a great job of algae control for me. Best of luck!


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## dielikemoviestars

To the OP: did you happen to make a build thread for that BG? I thought it was professionally manufactured...


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## peter-trnava

Thx for positive opinion  
I have ready slide deck about building whole tank (incl stand etc.). It was presented during local aqua event here in Slovakia and I was invited to another bigger event to share experiences. 
Do you think I have to create new topic about my BG?


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## starplayer

I think a seperate thread would be worthwhile, stating not only materials but your philosophy behind what you were trying to achieve.


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## DJRansome

The members who read the DIY forum would enjoy it if you have not already posted there.


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## peter-trnava

5 pcs of A.tamboensis arrived today :thumb:

illustrative pic


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## starplayer

Peter, I think your tank is great, however why on earth do you want an ugly thing like that in it???

I do openly admit however that I really dislike cats.


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## mccluggen

For clean up and substrate stirring I have fallen in love with the sulawesi rabbit snails. They are shaped like huge trumpet snails, burrow through substrate like them, and they need water conditions similar to the rift lakes.

Best part is they only produce about 1 baby a month and I believe they also need a male and female.

They are also attractive and people may actually want to pay money for them if they do overpopulate. Here is one of my monster yellows that I caught surfacing last night:










Expect to pay a little for them than you do MTS though :lol:

I am still trying to get ahold of some of the orange variety for a reasonable cost.


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## peter-trnava

starplayer said:


> Peter, I think your tank is great, however why on earth do you want an ugly thing like that in it???
> 
> I do openly admit however that I really dislike cats.


May be I did mistake to put them into tank, we will see. Currently is no chance to catch them anyway


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## peter-trnava

mccluggen said:


> For clean up and substrate stirring I have fallen in love with the sulawesi rabbit snails. They are shaped like huge trumpet snails, burrow through substrate like them, and they need water conditions similar to the rift lakes.
> 
> Best part is they only produce about 1 baby a month and I believe they also need a male and female.
> 
> They are also attractive and people may actually want to pay money for them if they do overpopulate. Here is one of my monster yellows that I caught surfacing last night:
> 
> Expect to pay a little for them than you do MTS though :lol:
> 
> I am still trying to get ahold of some of the orange variety for a reasonable cost.


I like all this Sulawesi snail, I have 2 pcs in other (live-bearers) tank, they eat algae and vegetables. 
I tried to protect algae in tang tank but young ancistrus are cleaning it. I hope they will stop when they mature. :-?


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## peter-trnava

A few days ago I found julies fry :dancing:


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## mccluggen

grats on the fry!

Cute little buggers.


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## starplayer

Great stuff Peter. Always enjoy the updates you provide.


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## peter-trnava

Thank you  
I do have question, how long (till what age) do you feed your fishes twice (or more frequently) a day?


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## peter-trnava

Today I found a few julies fry. They are 2 different sizes, 1-2mm and about 5mm. The both are from same pair. Do you have the same experiences?


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## peter-trnava

Update from last day of October
Front view









New plants & mosses (water level temporary deceased only for taking of pics) 
China moss









Weeping moss









Xmass moss









Rannunculus papulentus









Bolbitis heudelotii


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## peter-trnava

Shells for altos are ready


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## dubghod

Forgive me if this is mentioned earlier in the thread, but why have you stuck them to pieces of glass?


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## peter-trnava

BTM of shells are chopped, Its allow you to easily check spawn or fry when they are in shell.


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## dubghod

Oh right, thats an awesome idea . Tank looks fantastic as well btw, did you post your process to the DIY section in the end?

David


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## peter-trnava

Thx, I apologize I had not enough time to do that, I hope I will do it during winter I expect to have more time


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## Clink51

im new to planting and would like to do something like that for my SA tank.. any way, how did you plant into the DIY BG??


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## peter-trnava

For bigger plant like anubias, microsorium, bolbitis Im using florist wire greening pins, mosses are fixed by stapler pins.


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## peter-trnava

New surprise, today I found 3 holding paracyps :thumb:


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## triscuit

Congrats on the spawn! :dancing:


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## peter-trnava

Thx you triscuit 

I just preliminary placed shells into tank. Altos are already interesting about them 

Is it enough to keep distance about 10-15cm between each other? 
Thx you for your advices.


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## peter-trnava

A few new pics
























































cypri holding








paracypri holding


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## mel_cp6

Congrats on the spawns. You have most of the tangs I want in a tank except you're missing 1 of my favorite, the kilesas. Are you going to make room to add them like you said? Really great tank btw.


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## peter-trnava

Thanks, I planned to add them but they require more space than I can provide for them in this tank. I will think about new tank


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## triscuit

Amazing- you've created the coolest tank I've seen in a long time. :thumb: I know I'll be revisiting this thread when I get ready to do a big tank.


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## peter-trnava

Its great to know your opinion. I created it with your help (and help of other forum members)


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## noddy

Great looking tank. Did you ever get around to making a thread that details the background?


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## peter-trnava

Thx.
Not yet, I will do that asap


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## peter-trnava

The thread that details the background you can find at 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=


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## peter-trnava




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## Jesseschu

Thanks for documenting such a wonderful creation. I am even more inspired now. Triscuit has been heling me with my tank creation. I just purchased a 127"L x 16.5"H x 16"W and am getting it ready. I am so excited.

I wish I had experience with the plants because it could be such a great addtion to my tank, but I know very little about keeping the plants.

My list so far for fish:
Cyps or Paracyps 20-25
Opthalmotilapia ventralis Group
Alto Comps Gold Head 8
Gobies 8
Enants Group
Multis
1 or 2 other shellie groups

I can't wait. I hope to keep a thread going like you did. Will be setting up the thread soon.


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## peter-trnava

It look nice long tank :thumb: but by my opinion a bit narrow. 
Did you consult tankmates with triscuit or other experts? I don't have experience with gobies + carnivorous lamprologinies.

However I x fingers and keep me updated about your progress, if I could somehow help you dont hesitate to contact me.


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## peter-trnava

Today I cleaned my overflow filter = result 5 small paracyps :lol:


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## triscuit

How has your tank fared this year? Any interesting updates?


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## peter-trnava

I apologize for late response.
Pls see current status (just LQ pics taken by my iPhone + low light) :-(

Front view









Left part









Middle part 









Right part









Green algae were change to brown, I use low light but ist enough for anubiases and mosses.

Julies are commonly mated, cyps & paracyps have regularly young but I am not able to catch them.
Only altos are suffering, they are attacked by julies. Multies have nice colony


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## ratbones86

best tank i think i've ever seen!


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## peter-trnava

ratbones86 said:


> best tank i think i've ever seen!


many thx


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## ratbones86

Right back at ya. You have a thread to your background build? Or did you make one?


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## triscuit

ratbones86 said:


> Right back at ya. You have a thread to your background build? Or did you make one?


Did you read this topic from the beginning?


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## JimA

It's a ten plus! Very nice job, not sure how I missed this thread but glad it got back to the top!!


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## ratbones86

I skipped through but I will if it was in it


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## peter-trnava

You can check my thread *http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=238686*


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## ratbones86

Right on i appreciate it. Reason i was asking is because it's one of he most natural backgrounds i've seen and wanted to see how you went about making it. You have a great talent and a great eye, and an even better tank ;-)


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## peter-trnava

ratbones86 said:


> Right on i appreciate it. Reason i was asking is because it's one of he most natural backgrounds i've seen and wanted to see how you went about making it. You have a great talent and a great eye, and an even better tank ;-)


Many thx, unfortenately it was my first trial with BG.


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## ratbones86

First time? Wow lol can't wait to see the next one **** lol


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## peter-trnava

:lol: 
I don't have plan to create new BG in short future.


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## peter-trnava

Current status










http://www.akva.sk/gallery/peter-trnava-a598/pt-600-i45921.jpg?view=no_count


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## triscuit

It looks fantastic, and I love the depth and texture that established algae growth gives your structures. I'm going to revisit this thread (and send you questions!) when I get ready to do my next show tank.

Thanks for sharing!


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## peter-trnava

Thank u so much, the quality of pic is so bad. I will try to take beter one. 
I will be happy to anwer all questions but I learned mostly from u


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## Razzo

You did a wonderful job!


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## peter-trnava

Razzo said:


> You did a wonderful job!


Thx for your kind words, tank looks good but I have issue with julies. Their population is growing faster than I expected. I plan to remove them from tank at all. I tried to catch them w/o taking out all "stones" out but it doesnt work.  
I tried to catch them during the night but they wake up faster than me :-? 
I have to do it asap they make teror in tank. Any ideas how to catch them in fully eqiped tank?

Thx in advance.


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## triscuit

peter-trnava said:


> Current stocklist:
> 20 Cyprichromis microlepidotus KASAI
> 15 Paracyprichromis nigripinnis blue neon
> 6 Lamprologus multifasciatus
> 10 Julidochromis transcriptus KELEME
> 10 Altolamprologus compressiceps


Is this still accurate? Julidochromis trickle spawning combined with excellent parenting... I can see them overtaking a tank, though a bit unusual for transcriptus. How many breeding pairs do you have from the original 10 julies?

Are your rock structures attached, or can you remove them? I'm thinking to get at least the breeders out of there you might have to remove most of the water and structure...


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## peter-trnava

Feeding time


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## peter-trnava

Current stocklist:
20 Cyprichromis microlepidotus KASAI
8 Paracyprichromis nigripinnis blue neon
6 Lamprologus multifasciatus
a lot of Julidochromis transcriptus KELEME
6 Altolamprologus compressiceps

I have 6-7 pairs of Julies at least and they really occupied all teritories, paracyps, multies and altos are suffering the most.
Stones are not attached, I can remove them all including young as much as possible . I will do it next weekend. Fiernd of mine is willing to take them to his 2000 l tank.


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## peter-trnava

one more pic from feeding
as U can see a lot of julies occupy tank


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## Deeda

Beautiful tank!

Unfortunately the only way I've been able to remove any excess fish, especially Julidochromis species, is by draining the tank to a couple inches of water, removing any rock structure and plants and netting them out. I had to use this method in a 72" long 125G tank with a rock crevices background and it was a very tedious process.


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## peter-trnava

TU so much Deeda, I see I have to do it. 
My wife offer to help me


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## peter-trnava

Today was day "D" - fishing day. I decided take out all julies.
They are really very nice (ruler is in cm)









All my artificial stone are out









Empty tank









Julies will go to my friends tank which is almost 3x bigger than mine, i hope they will be fine there.


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## Deeda

Nice job but I know it was very time consuming from personal experience. Hopefully you got all the Julies because I did notice I missed some very tiny ones that eventually grew up in the tank.


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## peter-trnava

Deeda said:


> Nice job but I know it was very time consuming from personal experience. Hopefully you got all the Julies because I did notice I missed some very tiny ones that eventually grew up in the tank.


Thx Deeda 

I am not 100% sure I got all because I had some very small and they should survive (or altos shoud catch them). Probably the same process will repeat in 2-3 years :lol:


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## peter-trnava

Tank after cleaning


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## Deeda

It looks great! It also reminds me I need to get going on my water changes, thanks!


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## peter-trnava

Deeda said:


> It looks great! It also reminds me I need to get going on my water changes, thanks!


Thx a lot :fish:


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## peter-trnava

I start tto think o add 1-2 pairs of sand sifters, ideally Enantiopus. I should take out some stones (middle -right side of the tank) and make free sand teritory fro them.
Thx for your opinions?


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## Deeda

I haven't tried the Enantiopus but really love the way they look. I'll need to defer to someone with more experience with them. Here is an article link to the Kilesa


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## peter-trnava

Deeda said:


> I haven't tried the Enantiopus but really love the way they look. I'll need to defer to someone with more experience with them. Here is an article link to the Kilesa


Thx, article is very good. Hope somebody will give me advice if my tankmates are Ok or not.


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## Iggy Newcastle

Tank is gorgeous Peter!


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## triscuit

peter-trnava said:


> Thx, article is very good. Hope somebody will give me advice if my tankmates are Ok or not.


I don't have experience with Enants... yet. But my opinion is that it's worth a try in your tank. Create the open sand areas on the end opposite the shell bed. I think if you start with a few more than four, you (and the enants) will be happier. My reading/listening to folks who've bred enatiopus has led me to believe they're schooling fish, and don't take too kindly to rough neighbors. I would cram the altos and multies a little closer together, and leave a couple tall structures _without _caves in the other 2/3 of the tank.


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## peter-trnava

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Tank is gorgeous Peter!


Thx for your kind words


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## peter-trnava

triscuit said:


> I don't have experience with Enants... yet. But my opinion is that it's worth a try in your tank. Create the open sand areas on the end opposite the shell bed. I think if you start with a few more than four, you (and the enants) will be happier. My reading/listening to folks who've bred enatiopus has led me to believe they're schooling fish, and don't take too kindly to rough neighbors. I would cram the altos and multies a little closer together, and leave a couple tall structures _without _caves in the other 2/3 of the tank.


It sounds promising  I will call to my fish breeder and book 6 enants at least. I am thinking about to add some cyps ( oter than leptosoma). Is it good or not?


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## triscuit

With the cyps and paracyps you've got already? Probably not. You could swap out the leptosoma though to make room for a new cyp species. But once you add the enants, you're going to have less floor space available for all the other fish.


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## peter-trnava

triscuit said:


> With the cyps and paracyps you've got already? Probably not. You could swap out the leptosoma though to make room for a new cyp species. But once you add the enants, you're going to have less floor space available for all the other fish.


I already realized it was stupid idea. My breeder have Enantiopus melanogenys Kigoma, is there a big difference vs Kilesa?


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## peter-trnava

I found another breeder which have Kilesa so i dont need to find difference.
I already ordered 6 pcs, hope its ideal size of group.


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## triscuit

Good luck with them... I'm looking forward to updates!

Btw.... have you seen any julies that snuck back into your tank?


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## peter-trnava

Thx a lot

Yes, there are a few small size approx 1-1,5cm. I will reduce stones / caves i hope they will have diffficulty to survive (its not nice from me, i know)


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## peter-trnava

Tank ready for new comers  
Tank look a bit strange to me, to much empty space. Do u think its ok?


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## AlmightyJoshaeus

If the enantiopus need that space, I think it's fine.


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## Floridagirl

I agree!


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## peter-trnava

Thx for opinions. :thumb:

I tried to take better pics


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## triscuit

Looks like a great plan to start with. As you know, modifications might be needed, but I'm waiting to see a sand bower take over the left side.


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## peter-trnava

Kilesas finally arrived in huge plastic :-D




























They are not well acomodated yet, tankmates dont allow them to be in open sand :-( 
They are quite big so I hope they will be brave enough to move and stay there.


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## peter-trnava

finally at right place


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## rck1984

peter-trnava said:


> finally at right place
> 
> ** Picture **


Great looking fish, i love Xeno's! <3

Now start experimenting with dimming your lightning. A little less, bit by bit until you're completely satisfied. Xenotilapia are truly stunning under the the right lightning conditions!
As far as i know, Kilesas are found in depths up to 30-40 meter (40m max). At such a depth, the red spectrum in lightning completely disappears (actually, it starts to degrade in the first meters already). The deeper you go, the white spectrum is degrading as well and blue is completely taking over.
To get your fish to show their color at its best, my opinion is to dim your lightning by at least 50% (from full capacity, not sure if you dimmed it already now) and to place an "actinic (blue) light-tube" above your tank and dim that one for about 75%. All this to simulate the light conditions of their original habitat. Or at least get close(r) to it.

One side note though: Your plants (if real?) will definitely start to suffer from it. But then again, plants are not be found on such depths in the lake.

Just giving my opinion on things here, it's your aquarium after all. Don't get me wrong, it looks great but if you want your Xeno's and Cyps to show some incredible color/details (and they're stunning i can tell), you got to have to change some things  ( See it as positive criticism  )

Good luck, you've got some great fish in there! :thumb:


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## peter-trnava

Dear rck1984, 
thx for your advises, really appreciate that. I will start to play with light, maybe not during whole day but at least when I am home I´d like to see nicely colored fishes.


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## rck1984

peter-trnava said:


> Dear rck1984,
> thx for your advises, really appreciate that. I will start to play with light, maybe not during whole day but at least when I am home I´d like to see nicely colored fishes.


My pleasure, keep us updated


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