# why does my firemouth look like this??????



## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f384/ ... MG0147.jpg

my firemouth was beautiful in the beggining an now it loks like a midas! 
its about 4+ inches about 6 months old i think not too sure exact age.

was in a 60 gal with some other ca's nothing too aggressive going on in the tank i have a 10" midas who knows is the dominant 1 in the tank so ignores everyone til they act like they are the alpha of the tank the firemouth lost all colour except the black comes an goes it gets black all on top an lipstick look then the red by its gils are still somewhat visible picture doesnt show very well but it eats well an everynow an then attacks a less dom fish. no wounds or anythign what so ever is this normal


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

I don't see a firemouth, or anything that resembles one...do you mean a flowerhorn maybe? Lol I'm confused because there's definitely no FM there.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

The main fish u see there with the link is my FM. I bought it labeled as firemouth; it had all the traits nice red gils an everythign.

But now!!!!! Its like a red devil looking fish i swear i changed little by little til all color except the black on its hea an lipstick on mouth an tail sometimes comes an goes.

But have not seen much color lately in it. Now it has stayed mainly the light orange color for the past couple weeks but loss of color has been since a month or 2 maybe

what traits do you see this as being a fh?


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## underOATH87 (Apr 14, 2007)

LOL, you baught it labeled as a Firemouth but it's definately not a firemouth, more like a faded flower horn I'm guessing


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

Its kind if hard to get a good one I have a large Midas who loves attention an sees me an just swims in my face the whole time so I had to sneak a few shots in.

But have you ever seen or heard of a fish looking exactly like a juvie fm then turning out to be a FH?
i would love it to be a faded fh i was just watching a similar thread with a JD or GT cant remeber but it turned out to be a FH also a ZZ or some sort of faded FH.


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

The others are right, that isn't a Firemouth. Definitely an Amphiliphus species----Red Devil, Midas, or as mentioned... a Flowerhorn.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

it is in a tank with reds an midas also but not one mark on his body from fights or attacks not too agressive but not the least dom in the tank either.


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## Lancerlot (Feb 22, 2006)

He looks fine to me. ALso get clear pictures with the fish not being in the background. People don't take the time to look and think your nuts

he might just be a little stressed being in a tank with africans and Red devils 0.0


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

I would assume stress also, but i have 2 juvies in the same tank they are gorgeous! been there about the same amount of time.

its active an healthy an everything but recently color started to lessen more an more thne just black came back an then also dissappeared.

Now completely orange. But doesnt get attacked maybe a chase everynow an then but nothing serious eats wells keeps to its own an nips at the venutus an others evey now an then.

So stress is a slight possibility butnothing i would consider severely.

ill try to get a better close up pic maybe see if i can grab it with the net an nap a clear photo of it.


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## Lancerlot (Feb 22, 2006)

Just cause the others arn't stressed doesn't mean that one is not stressed. Stress affects all things differently. I've breed and kept firemouths for years now. Its just having a downer atm.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

have you ever had a fm do this?


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## Lancerlot (Feb 22, 2006)

SiNFuLWaYs said:


> have you ever had a fm do this?


All fish can lose color for different reasons. hot/cold. Ph lvls. stress. Not eating. Being to shy. Getting picked on

if his fins are fine and hes eating. he is fine. Colors don't always mean the fish is or isn't happy.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

yes its perfect no nips no damage to body what so ever.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

What the...are we looking at the same pics? The fish in the pics I'M looking at, is NOT a firemouth AT ALL.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Second and third pic there is a FM in the lower right corner. :thumb:

I don't see it in the other three. It's like Where's Waldo!!


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## Leucistic Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Nope not FM @all.
Looks like my Red Devil/Midas/Flowerhorn.
Except mine was colorless to begin with & now he's showing signs of black on the tips of his fins.

I'd trust Sk she's a pro.


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

It seems that we all are looking at different fish in the pictures. In the series of pics...there does appear to be a firemouth in one of the pictures---but the main fish is an Amphiliphus.


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## rmcder (Jul 9, 2005)

Yep, there IS a small firemouth way in the background in two of the pics. No way you'd be looking for it with that big old yellow fish in the foreground, though!


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## BlackShark11k (Feb 16, 2007)

Perhaps you should circle the fish you are talking about with paint or photoshop... :wink:


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

im sorry let me photoshop an arrow or circle on the exact fish its just hard when the other swim around an my midas is a attention hog i could barely get around it. sorry.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

it would be the orange fish in the bottom portion of the photo i drew a white line above it to sep from the rest.

but was once a fully colored "firemouth" as was labeled at petsmart.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

OK that is NOT a FM. Everyone can go back to thinking your crazy...

as you were people...as you were...

:lol: :lol:

Just kidding. Your FM looks fine but that is not one at all.


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## roman_back (May 8, 2007)

chrispyweld said:


> Second and third pic there is a FM in the lower right corner. :thumb:
> 
> I don't see it in the other three. It's like Where's Waldo!!


 :lol: thats what i was thinkin!


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Oh no! not again! :lol:  :lol:


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

not a firemouth, was never a firemouth (even if color may have been similar) it is a Jin Kang Flowerhorn, as I sent you through PM


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

:lol: :lol:


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## underOATH87 (Apr 14, 2007)

well wait a second, in that second picture you posted there is definately a firemouth lurking in the back, that other fish that is in all your photos isn't a firemouth.










That's Definately not a Firemouth










The fish in the backround swimming around definately is a Firemouth.

Here's a clear pic of what it should look similar too:










That's a younger Firemouth, here's a much more mature one:



























The red will fade in and out on your fish depending on how it's feeling at the time, the black pattern on it's body will do the same, becoming darker or lighter, pretty much all fish will show you how they are feeling by their attitude and color, IMO. But if yours looks like those then it's fine.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

:::::CroSSiNg FinGeRs:::::::

I really hope it is i would love to have a FH in my tank. I trying to hunt one down.

But i have seen some who actually let you pet them. I supose as long as you have continous attention an activity trying to interact with the fish it may be possible. i think in the vid i saw it was titled elephant god? i dont know if thats a name or breed.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

> *underOATH87*:The fish in the backround swimming around definately is a Firemouth.
> 
> Here's a clear pic of what it should look similar too:
> 
> The red will fade in and out on your fish depending on how it's feeling at the time, the black pattern on it's body will do the same, becoming darker or lighter, pretty much all fish will show you how they are feeling by their attitude and color, IMO. But if yours looks like those then it's fine.


I dont remeber its exact quality of look but it was the largest in the tank an most aggressive at the time being.

So i purchased it due to my other fish being a little larger, then after a few months it started to lose its color an all faded except for the black on its upper body an facial area then that recently a month or more agi has also dissappeared.

Now the 4-5 " orange fish you see has transformed from what i thought to be as labeled a FM now is just a mystery to me. some people were saying its a stressed out fm
then many others say its a Jin Kang FH so im hoping more towards the jkfh .

But it was very similar if not exactly to the same colour to the body and all but the facial fetaures are more of a midas or fh type the mouth is starting to snub a bit then the head has a minimal lump.

I feed it rosy minnows, hikari gold col enhacning pellets, nutrafin max spirulina flakes,frozen blood worms ,frozen brine shrimp, peeled peas,etc. but those are the main foods through out the week; a wide variety an it is very healthy.


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

A Jin Kang very nice score! :dancing: For the price of a FM....OMG.....what a deal!!! :thumb: Yes, some will let you pet them. I hand feed mine so he is used to my hand. Some fish love to be pet others don't like it. My Zz FH will bite your finger off rather than let you pet him. My Platinum Gold FH will let me pet him and his hump and let me cup him in my hand. The younger you start the better. Sweet deal! Nice going you lucky dog. :thumb:


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

well im like a little kid in chucky cheese when it comes to fish but im hoping its a jk id be very happy . well thanks eveyone for all the input an help greatly appreciated.

Ill keep updates as(oh yea his name is "Tapatio" the fish changes. lol... he was red like the hot sauce :lol: 
too bad now he is orange he changed colors like this smiley face


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

Jin Kang from petsmart?


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## kingmidas (Jan 30, 2009)

looks like a midas/red devil to me. a great fish with color you got there!


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

Was a fully colored fm that transformed into this. its in a tank with reds and midas


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

SiNFuLWaYs said:


> Was a fully colored fm that transformed into this. its in a tank with reds and midas


Fish don't tend to change species. :thumb:


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Jin Kangs are a very common flowerhorn guys, they are often sold as "Gold Trimacu". I have seen ton's of JK fry for sale.

*bulldogg7*, Especially at petsmart, the manager is able to try weird things at that store because the main profit is not fish, and the employees can BS people into buying anything at a certain price.

but, something I will add is it is darn near impossible to distinguish a faded Zhen Zhu from a Jin Kang, and both are relatively common... so it is very hard to say.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

Be cool if it is one, I thought they were kinda rare, never kept up with the flowerhorn stuff. Be cool to see him grow :thumb:


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

Yea I hope it odes end up to be a beautiful FH 

Ill post any changes with his color or shape thanks everyone.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

bulldogg7 said:


> Be cool if it is one, I thought they were kinda rare, never kept up with the flowerhorn stuff. Be cool to see him grow :thumb:


they had a bit of a rare spell, but have become increasingly popular therefore are bred more.


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

It looks like a Midas / Red Devil to me too.....but the again, I don't know much about Flowerhorns so gage could be right too.


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## straitjacketstar (Mar 8, 2004)

The fish is a rd/midas, I don't see much on the fish that would indicate a popular two-toned flowerhorn. Young JK's don't have adult coloration but even juvies at 4+ inches will begin to develop the darker toned collar which is lacking in this fish. A slightly darker flush around the breast/gills is noted but also common in RD/Midas. A developing JK should show some color from well behind the gill and cover a good third of the body (from head to behind the gills).

I think OP's confusion could have come from the fact that the fish was barred when purchased and I guess if you're not familiar with small FM's and barred Amphilophus sp you're not really gonna pick up on the differences right away. Of course, when the fish up and turns orange it's a big tip-off.

Little midas









Little firemouth









But then, what makes me so curious is that fact that there is a FM in two of OP's pictures. Is this simply a case of utter confusion? Who was the FM again, oh right, that one...or no....was it that one?



















This in turn makes me confused. And now I want to know what both fish were purchased as. lol

BTW, this is a picture of the "Little midas" after his color change. :wink:


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

Well either way i just picked up a flowerhorn today an a hybrid too.

That was blue an all of a sudden dropped it in the tank an within minutes changed to a range of colors both look gorgeous.

Ill put a new topic to get a exact classification on them.
And as said before ill post a pic of Tapatio when or if he changes color or shape.


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## FiremouthShogun (Apr 26, 2006)

chrispyweld said:


> Fish don't tend to change species. :thumb:


hahaha

What's funny is you do have a FM in those pics. Was there some chain pulling going on ? Anyhow depending on the size of your tank not the best pairing that FM will get chomped.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

i reposted some photos o a later page avoid the first page i edited them to specify the fish i was talking about and the fm in the background are a pair trhe female is holding right now but nt sure when she will lay.
they are still pretty small maybe 2 inches or so . but the main fish in the photo is still my mystery fish.

sop far i have gotten jin kang ,fm,red devil,midas. im hoping for the jin kang. opcorn:


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## BirdFish (Apr 27, 2009)

that is a midas/RD... not at firemouth. it happens all the time at LFS.... midas when young can get black spots that come and go.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

there was no black spots... it was a fully colored firemouth body coloration to it now it is fully

orange with black showing a bit now on its tail fin spots not whole portions an some underbelly

an fins an the red by an behind gil section is starting to form more shading of red tint to it.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

straitjacketstar said:


> The fish is a rd/midas, I don't see much on the fish that would indicate a popular two-toned flowerhorn. Young JK's don't have adult coloration but even juvies at 4+ inches will begin to develop the darker toned collar which is lacking in this fish. A slightly darker flush around the breast/gills is noted but also common in RD/Midas.* A developing JK should show some color from well behind the gill and cover a good third of the body (from head to behind the gills).*
> 
> I think OP's confusion could have come from the fact that the fish was barred when purchased and I guess if you're not familiar with small FM's and barred Amphilophus sp you're not really gonna pick up on the differences right away. Of course, when the fish up and turns orange it's a big tip-off.
> 
> ...


that is far from always true, it 100% depends on whether the A. trimaculatum gene is strong or not. I have seen plenty of Faded flowerhorns (JK, faded ZZ, Faded Kamfa etc...) that do not have any red color behind the gill...

we will wait and see but I still say a faded flowerhorn...


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

and wait a darn second... are you telling me you don't see the darker color behind the gill that it already has man... really??? it is there... look for it...

and let alone what appears to be a lightly faded out flowerline in the middle of the fish... and with better pics both would show better...


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

no he has started a light shade of red that has grown from gil back toa little less than mid body and also black is starting to show up..

it is visible on the tail an side fins also on the under belly ill take some pics the red is hard to se due to my light being soo bright in the tank.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

SiNFuLWaYs said:


> no* he has started a light shade of red that has grown from gil back toa little less than mid body* and also black is starting to show up..
> 
> it is visible on the tail an side fins also on the under belly ill take some pics the red is hard to se due to my light being soo bright in the tank.


so this proves my point that it is a flowerhorn...


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

this was TaPaTiO behore


























and this is TaP right now. still saame coloring but forehead has squared off some

stil orNGE WITH A SLIGHT RED behind the gils but has gotten a lot more aggressive an attacking my youngest red deviol thats a little larger than him


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

not to shabby, keep up the good work.


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## Glenbo (Aug 24, 2009)

Its a common Red Devil....no Firemouth in these pics.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

i wish i would have taken pictures of before aš a juvie you would have thoughwithout a doubt firemouth


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

this fish is about 6 month old or so give or take


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## straitjacketstar (Mar 8, 2004)

Still looks like a standard rd/midas. I saw the "blushing" around the gillplate. IMO that meant nothing to peg it a FH. Even my F1 orange A. citrinellus all have that type of "blushing" around the gills. Sure don't make _them_ FH does it?


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## eddy (Jan 16, 2009)

It's a red devil. Young red devils look like firemouths. Seems pretty simple to me.

Here is a good example
http://www.cichlids.com/pictures/pic/ju ... g_con.html


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

no i know what baby red look like but this one was in the fm tank had the exact super red gils an firemouth colors not the grey toned an spotted like baby reds or midas cichlids exactly looking like a firemouth without a doubt

til the color faded away an started turning all orange then gained some red back around gils an some black spot he had on his forehead an back a little that comes an goes an the forehead is getting bigger

i just noticed my 7-8" midas an the So called firemouth in these pics have joinedtogether on fighting others an then the midas attacks him? lol the fight together then with eachother..haha

but no doubt the fm or whayever it is has gotten VERY aggressive lately...


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## straitjacketstar (Mar 8, 2004)

SiNFuLWaYs said:


> no i know what baby red look like but this one was in the fm tank had the exact super red gils an firemouth colors not the grey toned an spotted like baby reds or midas cichlids exactly looking like a firemouth without a doubt
> 
> til the color faded away an started turning all orange then gained some red back around gils an some black spot he had on his forehead an back a little that comes an goes


Funny, the way you described your fish is the exact same descriptions fitting very small and assumable hormoned rd/midas I've seen being sold as "Flamingo cichlid". Tiny size, brilliant red/orange coloration with saturation around the gills and/or belly. Hormoned fish color early and once off hormones begin to lose their brilliant color to color naturally.


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## SiNFuLWaYs (May 18, 2009)

well either way its definately a cool fish i love it lately it has in a way paired of with a midas when it comes to other fish but then gets nipped at by the midas every now an then ... maybe if so a midas

or red they might pair off if the other is a fem an this is a male due to the kok on its hear slowly growing ? an yes i know it doesnt signify a male or fem sexuality both get koks at time. but it would

be nice to have my first set of fry since my actual fm's just tried for their first set of babies but have a 12-13" pleco in the tank not good lol


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## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Beautiful just beautiful!  I love the color on that fish. You can see where it's flowerline has faded to white. Nice hump starting too. That's a real looker :thumb: =D>


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## StillaZilla (Aug 22, 2008)

LOL............... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, apologize for the picture, but searching for that firemouth hidden in the corner of the picture reminded me of this picture of the CN Tower in Toronto.

No offense intended.

Stilla


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

straitjacketstar said:


> SiNFuLWaYs said:
> 
> 
> > no i know what baby red look like but this one was in the fm tank had the exact super red gils an firemouth colors not the grey toned an spotted like baby reds or midas cichlids exactly looking like a firemouth without a doubt
> ...


but his fish has been gaining color, not loosing it... hormone induced color does not last as long as he had had this fish...

I give up with this arguement... You can evidently see the white colored flowerline after the fading was complete, you can evidently see the red behind the gill, you can evidently see orange spotting in the dorsal and anal fin. the only reason people are saying red devil/midas is the orange color... I give up convincing... say what you want...

btw, hormoned food would intensify the entire bodies color... not just behind/on the gill plate...


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

straitjacketstar said:


> Still looks like a standard rd/midas. I saw the "blushing" around the gillplate. IMO that meant nothing to peg it a FH. Even my F1 orange A. citrinellus all have that type of "blushing" around the gills. Sure don't make _them_ FH does it?


he JUST finished saying it goes down to about mid body...


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## straitjacketstar (Mar 8, 2004)

gage said:


> straitjacketstar said:
> 
> 
> > SiNFuLWaYs said:
> ...


I'm not arguing what hormoning colors on the body, a hormined fish is brilliantly colored and then loses color once the fish in no longer being hormoned. The fish can then color naturally as it matures. Anyway it's a moot point as I don't think think fish was hormoned. I didn't understand OP very will using the word "faded" then then becoming orange. If it was colored exactly like a FM when he bought it would have been gray with red around the chest/gills and horming little rd/midas makes them prematurely ridiculously red/orange which was not the case so for that I apologize.
Either way a differing opinion is fine. You can turn common RD/midas color into FH all you want I will not see it. There is nothing on this fish that I have not seen on RD/midas, pure or not. My F1 cits from Ken Davis have spotting in the fins. My RD/Midas from a petstore had all of the traits OP describes. This make them FH? This fish has a flowerline?








I see no flowerline in OP's fish. I see RD/Midas color. There is white, I do not disagree, I've seen this in run-of-the-mill RD/midas. I don't see how this pattern is indicative of FH. I see a lot more white than is indicative of a "flowerline". The chances that it will gain more white in the future is high. It will probably turn out to be a nice looking red & white rd/midas.
I have no problem agreeing to disagree. He can enjoy his fish for what it is or for what other people say it is, it doesn't really matter. I think it will be a nice fish either way.


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## straitjacketstar (Mar 8, 2004)

Edit: Double post.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

this isn't really an arguable point... a faded flowerhorn can look very similar to a RD/Midas anyways, I see flowerhorn features, I see a flowerline which has been faded out a bit... if you don't see it, it isn't my problem...

regardless it really doesn't matter...


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