# New Canister Filter... Rena or Fluval



## iheartmycichlids (Mar 10, 2009)

*Which is the better cannister filter?*​
Rena FilStar xP2777.78%Fluval 305222.22%They are both good so go with the cheaper!00.00%


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## iheartmycichlids (Mar 10, 2009)

I don't have a preferance since I've never owned a canister pump so I need some help please!! Which one is better in your opinion????

My tank is a 50 gallon acryllic with 7 yellow labs and a hybric cobalt.

Rena FilStar xP2 - Up to 75 Gallons - 300 GPH - $145

Fluval 305 - Up to 70 Gallons - 260 GPH - $170


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

For starters I think You should be considering the XP3 vs the 405...

Is there a reason you are comparing the smaller versions?


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## supadave (Jun 19, 2007)

Toby_H said:


> For starters I think You should be considering the XP3 vs the 405...
> 
> Is there a reason you are comparing the smaller versions?


+1


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## iheartmycichlids (Mar 10, 2009)

How much of a filter do I really need for a 50 gallon?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

An age old philosophy for strong mechanical and biological filtration, is turning your tanks volume over 10 times per hour... Which would be 500 gallons per hour...

Canister filters 'actually' move a lot less water than their motor is 'rated' to move. This is due to restriction of the media, bends in the tubes, frictions in the lengths of tubes, the slight lift involved, etc... I find most brands function at approximately 50~60% their rated value...

So your XP2 will actually move 150~175 gph... your 305 will actually move 130~155 gph...

So either one of these will provide about 1/3 the water movement you will want for ideal mechanical and biological filtration... Of course "ideal" filtration is not "necessary" to keep fish alive... but the farther below ideal you are the worse your water quality will be...

It is often said that canister filters need a lower turnover rate than Power Filters. This is not a fair statement. It is fair to say that biological filtration requires less turnover than mechanical filtration...

It takes current to move physical waste into filters. It doesn't matter which style of filter is creating that current, it still takes current to move physical waste into the filter.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Dec 7, 2005)

Toby's statement is true partially. Something else to think about though is that a powerhead will move water more efficient and where you want it a lot better than a filter, so if it's water movement you need, then a powerhead or two combined with the filter is better than a bigger filter. I've pretty much gone to this model in all but my smallest tanks.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Toby's statement is true partially. Something else to think about though is that a powerhead will move water more efficient and where you want it a lot better than a filter, so if it's water movement you need, then a powerhead or two combined with the filter is better than a bigger filter. I've pretty much gone to this model in all but my smallest tanks.


Define "more efficiently"?

The Aqua Clear 70 (400 gph) powerhead uses 20W... the Aqua Clear 110 (500 gph) uses 14 Watts...

The filter cleans the water as well as moves it... thus increasing efficiency...

I'm not sure if such comparisons will be true with most other brands, this is just the first one I referenced...

I do agree that using a powerhead to compliment filtration is worth considering and is very often a wonderful accessory...

But in relation to this thread, simply put, neither of the filters being considered alone will offer what I consider "adequate" filtration to a 50 gal tank... which is why I suggested bumping up to the larger size...

When the Author questioned this I elaborated on filtration approaches to explain why...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Dec 7, 2005)

Toby_H said:


> Define "more efficiently"?
> 
> The Aqua Clear 70 (400 gph) powerhead uses 20W... the Aqua Clear 110 (500 gph) uses 14 Watts...


Since I'm an engineer, the definition I use is classical mechanical definition. Output per input. There is no obstruction to the powerhead, while a filter moves the water through media. A powerhead's output from the impeller is what is measured, while a filters output is measured after media. So if I want to move detritus from one end of the tank to the other, nothing is going to move it more efficiently than a powerhead. My Koralia 1 moves just as much water as my FX5 once it starts to clog up, and it only uses 3.5 watts while my FX5 uses 50 w.

Isn't that why people use UGJ's? The powerheads can be used to direct the detritus to the filter intake, while with any filter, you're dependent on the filter's flow patterns.

As for filtering the water, you can put a sponge on the intake of most powerhead and make it a biological and mechanical filter also, albeit you'll experience some flow losses.

I think there are a lot of solutions, but in reference to the OP's question about multiple filters, the powerhead would give the most bang for buck. I was about to suggest a HOB, but since the OP only suggested canisters, I thought I would refrain from suggesting a different filter type (he can also use a sump to have more flow and better efficiency).


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## iheartmycichlids (Mar 10, 2009)

WOW! I don't think I've ever been so freaking confused!!! LOL! And I consider myself a pretty bright person.  Ok, I have a HOB filter right now, but the aquarium is an acrylic with only an 11 inch (barely) opening for a HOB filter to sit in. The biggest filter that will fit there that I can find around here is a 30 gallon HOB. Just from common sense and the look of my sand, it's not sufficent. Also, *it doesn't stay running*. I have to wiggle the intake for it to start sucking again and if I'm lucky, it will start working for another hour before I have to wiggle it again... When I came back from my 4 day vacation, it hadn't been running for some time and my fish were almost blue (well, not really, but they weren't happy). Anyway, this is the 3rd HOB filter I've been through and I'm tired of wasting my money on HOBs. I've been told (and read some on here) that cannisteres are the way to go.

I have a 400gph powerhead that I can use for this tank if needed. So if anyone has any ideas... I'm open. But as far as spending too much, my husband will divorce me if I keep spilling money into my little ocean! :fish:


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## 2wheelsx2 (Dec 7, 2005)

Toby_H said:


> When the Author questioned this I elaborated on filtration approaches to explain why...


I do agree on this part, and I also like dual filters on bigger tanks, where excessive flow is not a problem.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Sorry if we crashed your thread with details that allowed confusion... it's not as bad as it may seem. Some of us with ample experience can get caught up debating the finer details that most people aren't so concerned with...

One suggestion, right off the bat disregard the "up to XX gal tank" rating on any filter. They are far from accurate and will simply mislead you. Instead pay attention to the XXX gph rating, as this will be far more informative and helpful in choosing a filter...

There are high quality HOB filters as well as garbage. Please do not judge all HOB filters on the failure of the brand or brands that have failed you thus far. I am a huge fan of the Aqua Clear HOB filters by Hagen and the 300 gph model is a little under 9" wide.

But I also do not want to discourage you from considering a canister filter. Although you do get more "bang for your buck" with HOB filters, if price is a strong concern.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Dec 7, 2005)

100% agreed. Don't know what you're using for a HOB now, but if price/flow is the main concern, HOB is the way to go and nothing beat the AC's.

Sounds like you're getting sand in the intake, which is stopping the impeller. Can you move the intake up some and/or add a sponge prefilter to the intake? That should help immensely.


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## iheartmycichlids (Mar 10, 2009)

I've got mu intake up so far already and when I add a sponge to my intake prefilter, it clogs it up so much, it barely puts out any water. I actually only wanted to get a cannister because I though this would stop my problem. As far as filter media, all I have in there is the filter with charcoal that you get in the box. Never had a problem with them and I've always been told, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" But I can't seem to get this tank to keep a HOB filter running...


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

What brand and size filter(s) have you been using without success?


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## iheartmycichlids (Mar 10, 2009)

Aqua-Tech 20-40. This is the 3rd one I've purchased. I honestly assumed they were dying because of sand in my impeller, but I'm not having the same problems in any of my other 4 tanks. They all have sand and I've had no problems out of them.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

If sand in the filter is the issue then putting a prefilter over the intake is the solution. If the filter is to weak to handle the resistance of the prefilter then upgrading the filter to a stronger / better filter makes sense...

An upgraded filter could be a better brand HOB, I am a big fan of the Aqua Clear filters, but Emperors are also good filters. Penguins are a less expensive step down from the Emp but still aren't bad. These will all fail in the face of sand, but any of them could easily accept a prefilter.

You could also go for a canister if you wish, but please do not think it is a necessary choice. The biggest benefits canisters offer (in my opinion) are that they can be set up to function silently and can be 'tucked away' below the tank giving the aquarium a sleeker look. But in trade for these qualities you pay a higher price tag and loose flow rate...


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## iheartmycichlids (Mar 10, 2009)

So in all reality, the BRAND of filter is actually my problem, not the TYPE?? Honestly, I couldn't care less about whether or not it's tucked away... It may look nicer, yeah, but isn't it easier to take care of the HOB? Guess i'll just stick to my HOBs... maybe I should look into cutting the hole for the filter to hang on a little bigger? Should I go ahead and build an UGJ system for it? I still have that powerhead that pumps 400gph that's not being used... or would that be over-kill?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

iheartmycichlids said:


> So in all reality, the BRAND of filter is actually my problem, not the TYPE??


Exactly!



iheartmycichlids said:


> Honestly, I couldn't care less about whether or not it's tucked away... It may look nicer, yeah, but isn't it easier to take care of the HOB?


Yes, to clean a canister you have to disconnect it, carry it to the sink/driveway, dismantle it, wash each part, reassemble it, put it back in place, prime it, then power it up... For the Aqua Clear HOBs,,, I turn off the power strip, pull out a sponge, rinse it in the sink, put it back in, turn on the powerstrip... Because it's so easy to clean the HOBs, I do it much more often, which in turn has other benefits...



iheartmycichlids said:


> Guess i'll just stick to my HOBs... maybe I should look into cutting the hole for the filter to hang on a little bigger?


Your current hole shuold accommodate an AC 70 (300 gph). Having an AC 110 (500 gph) would be better, but Im not sure if it would be worth tearing the tank apart and cutting a bigger hole.



iheartmycichlids said:


> Should I go ahead and build an UGJ system for it? I still have that powerhead that pumps 400gph that's not being used... or would that be over-kill?


I think you could make yourself happy with the AC 300 and a powerhead. Making little 3 Jet UGJs isn't that hard if you enjoy such projects. I've made a few I was happy with. Do not glue any of the PVC together and just keep makign changes until you get the results that make you happy...


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## iheartmycichlids (Mar 10, 2009)

Thank you so much. I really appreciate all of your help. You just saved me a ton of money and a TON of time!! I don't want to risk cutting the hole bigger if I don't have to. My husband thinks he can do it and he probably can, but the thought of him with a saw and my acrylic tank scares the crud outta me! Thanks again! Your help was SO appreicated!! =D> :thumb: =D>


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## 2wheelsx2 (Dec 7, 2005)

Toby_H said:


> Yes, to clean a canister you have to disconnect it, carry it to the sink/driveway, dismantle it, wash each part, reassemble it, put it back in place, prime it, then power it up... For the Aqua Clear HOBs,,, I turn off the power strip, pull out a sponge, rinse it in the sink, put it back in, turn on the powerstrip... Because it's so easy to clean the HOBs, I do it much more often, which in turn has other benefits...


As another point of reference, many of the newer canisters do not need priming. The FX5 is a great example. The pump is on the bottom, so just connect the hoses and and plug in. And normally, you wouldn't have to wash all the parts of the canister filter, unless you're doing a planted tank which sucks all kinds of plant material in there. You would slosh the bio media in the canister water, clean out the impeller once every 2 or 3 cleanings, and rinse out the sponges in tank water. All this stuff has to be done for a HOB also. Realistically, the 2 biggest differences (pains) in cleaning a canister is that you have to carry the canister to the sink (with most HOB's you can just carry out the media without moving the filter, although I always pulled the whole filter to clean the container) and the disconnection of the hoses and reconnecting. To clean a smaller canister takes just a few minutes more than a HOB.

Anyway, Toby's points are all valid in that the HOB's are cheap and move lots of water, but each person has his/her own preferences, and as you can tell I prefer canisters (I sold all my HOB's, mostly because I don't like the noise and the frequent cleaning, so to each his/her own).

I like the flexibility of being able to put different things in the canisters (I have Purigen and coral gravel in my canisters to buffer my CO2 injected tanks) and being able to direct the flow in the tank from the outlet of the filter (can't do that on a HOB).

Go with a better HOB for now. The AC and Emperors/Penguins are all great filters, but have a look at a better made canister if you get a chance/have more funds and decide for yourself what would work best for your needs.


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