# STOP Killing Eachother



## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm hoping by adding much more rock this will help, but it's like every 2 weeks or so, I get a dead fish. Poor thing is torn to shreds, and starved to death. I pulled out a poor guy today that is trying to hang on. All his fins are shredded, and tummy is sooo sunkin in. Any ideas on how to stop this?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

What are your tank dimensions and stocklist?


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

It's a 125 6feet long. No idea what I even have in there anymore. All males. about 18-20 peacocks and haps.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Certainly sounds aggression/stress related. How about a pic or even better, a video? A breakdown of the species is imperative when it comes to aggression.
Moved to Malawi for the peacock/hap experts.


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

You need to let us know what kind of malawi's you have so we can help out. A 6 foot tank is large enough so there is plenty of room to escape aggression. Obviously there has to be a certain fish or two causing the shredded fins. Maybe you need to add more rocks for hiding places and rearrange the landscape. Do you have enough fish in there to spread the aggression?


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

Sunken stomachs ?

Perhaps these fish that died were sick in the first place. When they get weak, they can get attacked by other fish. Or perhaps the fish died due to illness then got shredded.

Like others have said...give us a list of your peacocks and haps.

I have peacocks and haps in the same tank that you have. Only rocks and 1 cave. Found out the more I put caves,the fighting gets elevated as a few will fight over those caves. So I took out all of them minus one and relative calm came back.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

From MandyBlue's 'Tanks' link:

1	Aulonocura Rubescens
1	C. Moori 
1	Dragon Blood
1	Ovates, hap
1	Electric Blue Ali
1	Ruby Red
1	Deep Water Hap
1	Blue Regal Mbenji
1	Venustus
1	Kipilli Frontosa
1	Yoyo Loach
1	Red Top hongie
1	Yellow lab
1	Zebra Loach
1	Nimbochromis livingstonii 
1	Intermedius
1	Tiawn Reef
1	Z Rock
1	Super Ruby Red
3	Phenochilus Tanzania
1	Gold spot pleco


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Out of the list, which ones have perished? I see a few that could be the aggressor(s) or a few problematic combinations.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

Yes, please dont go by that list at all, it OLD. I'm uploading a video of the tank now. The fish are starved, not sick. When I feed them I see them trying to eat, but others will not let them.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

Just uploaded a video. I changed out all the holy rock yesterday to the way it is in the video. Before I just had really heavy pieces, now there are more holes and allow for more swimming space. I will be adding more on the left side, but I still have that rock bleaching in the garage. 




Here are some pictures as well.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

What I know I have: Dragon Blood, Electric Blue Ali, Ruby Red, Deep Water Hap (half dead), Venustus, Red Top hongie, Yellow lab, Nimbochromis livingstonii, Intermedius, Tiawn Reef, Z Rock, Super Ruby Red, Phenochilus Tanzania, OB, and one yoyo loach.


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

fish should never not want to eat especially African cichlids there should be a frenzy every time. I think what your experiencing is a combination of aggression and illness, usually the aggression in the tank is too much for certain fish, where they won;t come out of their hiding spot in fear of being attacked which leads to stress and eventual the fish succumb to illness. The stem of the problem though is aggression so you need be able pick out the fish that are looking stressed and remove them before they are floating or torn to shreds.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

The one I pulled, deep water hap, I was lucky to find before he was a goner. The last 4 or 5 times, I just find bodies that have been torn to shreds. Someone always has torn fins. But I can never catch who's doing it.

I'm starting to think this is my fault. :-( I thought that with the filtration system I had, that I could do WC every 10-14 days or so (on my planted tank I only do it every 3 weeks, and that just because I need to suck up the poop from the pleco, water is always perfect in that tank.) Maybe an every Tuesday and Friday I should do WC, 15%?


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

It's not your fault. I cannot think of one long-time hobbyist that has not experienced the same thing; it's part of the game. So, don't beat yourself up. 
An increase in water changes are always beneficial, regardless of aggression. Weekly 25% changes should be adequate.

Looking at the pictures (condition of the fish) I would start off with removing the Dragon Blood and Venustus. The livingstonii is questionable. Watch the hongi, normally a single does ok in peacock and hap tank but he's up there on the dominance scale.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

What are the pictures telling you? I posted a video too.

The dragon blood has had some aggression issue in the past, but not much in the past 6 months that I have seen (problem was when one of my OB's turned out to be female and they mated). The Venustus is actually really peaceful! He's more of wimpy fish, never seen him in a fight, but I think because of his size, no one messes with him. He's so much bigger because he was one of the very first fish I bought.


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

Not your fault !!

What is going on with your tank is typical of keeping an African cichlid tank.

Specifically compatibility issues, illness, dead fish --- common to this hobby.

Water change --- get your water tested. If nitrates are high, back off the feeding a tad...do more frequent water change.

If nitrites or ammonia present --- add more iological filtration or lessen the number of fish.

Dannigirl gave good advices in the area of compatibility. I always liked the look of Venustus, but from my research, can get aggressive over time. Same with Livingstoni. For me personally, the compatibility arena is something I will never master. Why ? Even the most laid back African cichlid specie can be troublesome as personality of each fish plays a major role.

Watch your fish closely, eliminate the trouble makers, get your water tested then correct it if there are issues and oh yes ---- check the health of each fish.


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

There are 4 fish that I think could be doing the damage. If you said the venusus is peaceful then I would count him out but usually they are aggressive. 1. The dragons blood. These are usually aggressive since they have mbuna in them. 2. The OB peacock. They have mbuna in them too and are aggressive. 3. The hongi. Being mbuna is naturally aggressive. 4. Yellow lab. Usually are not as aggressive if they are in with mbunas, but with peacocks and haps could be dominating. I had a large yellow lab and had to get rid of it in my hap/peacock tank. The electra is a peaceful fish so he will often get beat up. The phenochilus are also peaceful so I would keep an eye on them. They could get hurt in the future until they get full grown. I would do at least 50% water changes once a week if it was me on your bioload . On my 220G with about 25 fish between 4"-14" I do at least 75% water changes once a week and I only feed every other day.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

Hi gverde! Luckily my 2 Pheno are still doing okay. One is growing much faster then the other though. I found the larger pheno and the intermedius having a bit of a spat, they are the same size. To be honest, I dont see my tank often except during water changes and at feedings. It's in the family room downstairs, so I'm never down there more. I may move the sofa in front of the tank and do my studies there.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

MandyBlue said:


> Hi gverde! Luckily my 2 Pheno are still doing okay. One is growing much faster then the other though. I found the larger pheno and the intermedius having a bit of a spat, they are the same size. To be honest, I dont see my tank often except during water changes and at feedings. It's in the family room downstairs, so I'm never down there more. I may move the sofa in front of the tank and do my studies there.


It's Hard To Tell Which Fish Are being Aggressive If You Just Stand There And Watch Them - They Can See You And Are Focused On The Fact That You Will Most Likely Be Feeding Them. Find A Spot Where The Fish Can't See You (Around A Corner, Across The Room, Etc), Then Stand Still And Watch Them For A While. You'll See How Differently They Behave When You're Not Around, And You'll Most Likely Be Able To See Who The Trouble Makers Are.


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

Not sure if that's possible. The tank is in a huge open room. Any corner I could hide behind would be too far for me too see. Sounds like I need a hidden camera!


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

MandyBlue said:


> Not sure if that's possible. The tank is in a huge open room. Any corner I could hide behind would be too far for me too see. Sounds like I need a hidden camera!


That would definitely work, too. Just set the camera up on a tripod and let it record for a few hours - then you'll also have video evidence if any of the trouble makers try to deny the charges!


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## MandyBlue (Mar 19, 2011)

Well for starters I'm going to increase water changes. Can anyone tell me the connection with water changes and less aggression?

I feed 6 days per week. I tried every other day for a while, but this made the fish much more aggressive and I had one dead at least once a week. It's like the more I feed the less aggression.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

MandyBlue said:


> Well for starters I'm going to increase water changes. Can anyone tell me the connection with water changes and less aggression?
> 
> I feed 6 days per week. I tried every other day for a while, but this made the fish much more aggressive and I had one dead at least once a week. It's like the more I feed the less aggression.


I'm not sure that there's a direct correlation between increased water changes and reduced aggression, but cleaner water means healthier fish. Healthier fish means those that have been beat up have a much easier time recovering from injuries (like torn fins, etc., due to aggression), and are less likely to develop secondary infections and stress related illnesses.

I have also found that smaller, more frequent feedings can reduce aggression - make sure the total amount of food given stays the same, though.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

My 180 mbuna tank is adjacent to my video game tv. When I'm gaming, they go about their business as if I'm not there. As soon as I get up or move around on the couch, they drop what they're doing and swarm the glass. Point is, you don't have to go 007 behind a couch to watch them. Grab a comfortable chair, a good book and look up every so often. I'd bet that you find a trouble maker in a couple hours. That sucks you have a 125 in a location where no one gets to enjoy it...


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## walzon1 (Jun 17, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> My 180 mbuna tank is adjacent to my video game tv. When I'm gaming, they go about their business as if I'm not there. As soon as I get up or move around on the couch, they drop what they're doing and swarm the glass. Point is, you don't have to go 007 behind a couch to watch them. Grab a comfortable chair, a good book and look up every so often. I'd bet that you find a trouble maker in a couple hours. That sucks you have a 125 in a location where no one gets to enjoy it...


Yea I got mine setup next to my PC, same thing, as soon as I look at the tank after awhile I get to see some good action. Last night my 1" convict wast putting my over 2" green terror in it's place, really fun to watch. It's ever fun to watch them when they are glued to the glass trying to beg for food, plus if I hang out by the tank too long the fish usually get crowded then start getting into some nasty fights the kind that leave a couple holes carved into the fins.


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## Allan01230 (May 23, 2013)

Watch the tank with the lights in the room off when it is dark and the tank lights on. The fish can't see you even if you are in front of the tank. You will then see what is going on. Any mbuna or fish such as a draonblood (fish with mbuna in it) more likely the culprit. Haps and peacocks will chase until dominance is reached but mbuna persue more agressively as a whole. Is it possible you have some females in there? This will definately cause promblems espicially if a male is trying to breed.


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