# Would you like to control your nitrates.



## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

I will be posting my experience with sulfur denitrators and DIY builds. I hope to help with everyones overstocked tanks and neverending waterchanges. I would just like to say before I begin That your biological and mechanical filtration should be up to par and supporting what you have now and that a nitrate reading of 0 should not keep you from performing your normal maint. Filter maint and gravel cleaning never ends. This is a way to control your nitrates to support a healthier enviroment for your fish and reduce maint such as algea cleaning and heavy water changes. 
I have made the mistakes and found the remidies for denitrator issues over the years, but I wont say I know it all. I have built and bought several different types of denitrators over the years but have arrived at the sulfur denitrator as the final answer to the problem.
A short introduction. This is a very slow flow rate but not to picky. It needs a low oxygen enviroment (Not a no oxygen enviroment). The efluent from the sulfur is very acidic approx PH of 6.5 it will need to be flowed through crushed aragonite. The low Ph will break down the arogonite and bring the Ph back to about 7.5-7.8 and add a very little amount of calcium.
Ok more later.


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

Ok I have a minute. This denitrator consist of 1 or 2 cylinders. The most efficient is a recycling unit witch can be set up as 1 or 2 cylinders. The other is a single pass and must have 2 cylinders. First the single pass, This is the most simple but not the most efficient You will need two cylinders or media reactors as a bottom to top flow is best to try to avoid channeling through the media. Fill the first with sulfur and the second with crushed aragonite. It is always best to try to use filtered water to feed this as it will cut down on maint & clogs. It is best to use airline sized hose to feed this and for the output as well. install the output above the water level so it can mix with oxygen before it goes into your tank. Get it together and let it flow wide open for a few hours to let any trapped air escape. after that slow it down to about 1 or 2 drops per second and let it ride for a few days but checking from time to time to assure the flow is consistant, it will fluctuate. After a few days have passed check for nitrite It probably has it but not to worry go ahead and check your tank I'm sure the reading will be 0. Check daily and you will see the nitrite go away then it is time to check the nitrate. If it is 0 bump up the flow alittle and test it daily again. They say you can run up to 4 lires per hour per 1 litre of sulfur but I have never accomplished that and kept it efficient. Usually about 3/4 litre per hour per 1 litre of sulfur. I will get more specific later.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Thanks for the thread.
I`ve seen a few commercial units, by way of some posts on Reef specific sites.
From what I could gather they work like a cross between a reactor and coil denitrator.
Low flow, but not anaerobic, as oxygen seems to be needed in the process.
Be looking forward to anymore you are up to sharing.


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## bane1202 (Nov 15, 2010)

do you cycle yours on and off on a schedule? i know that most that use these for reef aquariums only run them occasionally until the nitrate readings on the effluent are 0 that way they don't contribute too much sulfate to the water


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

No I don't Once it goes on what I like to call maint mode it is a litlle less aggressive as far as affecting the alkalinity. As as far as contributing to the sulfate this is more of a fear than a hard fact. Yes it does contribute to the sulfate but not on a scale that we could see. It would take years for this alone to raise the sulfates if used correctly. The food you use would impact your sulfates much much faster. If you use any type of a phosphate remover its necesity would not be increased.


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## bane1202 (Nov 15, 2010)

is it sealed where you have to purge the gas buildup every so often?


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## maddyfish (Jul 23, 2004)

Interesting will be following along


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

In this type of setup you do not have to purge the gas But again this is not the most efficient way to do it. A recycling unit is far more efficient and yes you have to purge the gas in this set up for a while daily. But a few weeks purging gas is worth the performance. I will get into the recycling unit and ways to control it later.


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

Well I cant post any pics here so do some searching on the web there has been alot of DIY projects on sulfur denitrators out there in the last few years. I will look around for a good link. Basically a recycling sulfur denitrator is a sealed unit (reactor of some type) with a circulating pump. This can be done with sulfur & aragonite in the same chamber or sulfur in the first chamber recycling alone and arogonite in the 2nd. Once you get the concept your build will be fairly simple. These can be monitored or contrlled by and orp monitor or controller. optimum target is -175 mv. Most controllers do not read in the - values much less controll in them. This is just a simple current and can be reversed on most equipment. Pinpoint marine has been my favorite and the company is very helpfull in a rewire. We will get more into that later. But the addition of a orp meter or controller will make this piece of equipment almost 100% hands off.


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## johncl (Mar 10, 2010)

opcorn:


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

Ok enough rattle about the equipment here is what it has done and can do for you. Personally I run 2 of these 1 in my 140 display tank (2 reactors orp controlled) I have 31 cichlids and a underground filter NITRATE MACHINE. I have 0 nitrates and the only time I change any water is when I loose some from vacuming the gravel. I run the other in my breeding tanks (1 reactor) 5 tanks total 2 55g 2 20g 1 10g 1 30gsump. Nitrates 0. My breeder tanks are much more efficient at removing solid waste and the denitrator is much smaller than my other. I have helped my buddies install sulfur denitrators with nitrate levels off the chart and have brought them to 0 every time. Every tank is different and how fast it works will vary but in the end it never fails. This will bring down your alkalinity especially when first set up so you will have to keep an eye on that pretty close. It will balnce out later. I find that a finely crushed aragonite is much better at returning the ph. When you compare the time and cost of water changes this is well worth the cost to build or buy.[/b][/u]


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## sjnovakovich (Sep 13, 2010)

Are there pictures of this setup? I can't quite picture it. Is it simply two reactors linked togheter; one containing powdered sulfur and the other containing aragonite? Where do you get powdered sulfer? Are these placed in the sump?
Thanks


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

I will look for a link with a pic. The sulfur is a bead shape. You can place it in a sump if you have nowhere else but they can stand alone. ok here is a quick one. copy & paste this one. You can buy the sulfur and arogonite here as well. If you would like a pic of my setup shoot me an email and I will send one. I recently bought this unit to replace my old one just because The design was very nice. Of course I have modified it quit a bit since then.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Korallin_Bio ... DN-vi.html


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Hmmmm.
Lots of looks, but few questions.
Might have been the price tag on the provided link that that stopped any questions.
Same for those who did a search on an ORP control.
Very cool gadgets and hold my interest, much as a new Lamborghini does.
Out of my price range, but sure can marvel at the ingenuity and mechanics.
Would assume there are DIY workarounds that can significantly lower the price.
Thanks for sharing.


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

Yes the price for a comercial unit is extreme compared to building one. still searching for a good DIY link.


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

here is one DIY looks good
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... genumber=1


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/diy-p ... rator.html


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/ ... ection.jpg


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## sjnovakovich (Sep 13, 2010)

I understand this whole thing EXCEPT

1. Is the reciruculating pump an MJ or an Aqualifter?

2. How does water get into the unit?

A. Do you simply let the input tubing lay in your sump?
B. Do you attach the input to another pump, and if so, is that an MJ or an Aqualifter?

Thanks.
I really want to build this, but I'm just not sure of the pumps, and how water gets into the unit.

Steve


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

The recirculating pump is basically a hobby pump like eheim 1048 this is about perfect size. http://www.marinedepot.com/Eheim_Univer ... UF-vi.html 
or the mag drive but a little strong
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/206497/product.web

The intake hose does have suction and you can just throw it in your sump. I prefer to feed it from the out side of a filter but anyway you like.
The size of pump depends on how big the unit is but these sizes are good for alot or a little media.


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## sjnovakovich (Sep 13, 2010)

Wow, Moneycycle... Thanks a lot. Now I FINALLY have this figured out. Thanks again!


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Thanks for the links.
The DIY projects often give me a clearer picture of how something actually functions, over the descriptions alongside a commercially made product.
Very clever.
Will say this is another reason I would probably never get into reef keeping.
To go through all this trouble to avoid a water change shows the commitment to water quality demanded by successful reef keepers.
Thanks for sharing this.
Found it very interesting.


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

Always happy to share. I have moved away from reef keeping and taken what I have learned and used in my malawi tanks. I have been able to keep my water perimeters very stable and on key. Some things that worked for saltwater do not work well for fresh but the learning is part of the hobby. I must admit the water chemistry has always been more interesting for me than the livestock, not that I would ever give up any of my mbuna.


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## Dmahadi (Dec 10, 2010)

Very useful and helpful info on this site.... :thumb:


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

[/img]http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd443/LIFTU/th_denitrator2.jpg







http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd443/LIFTU/th_DENITRATOR.jpg


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... TRATOR.jpg
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... rator2.jpg


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

Well I havnt quite figured it out yet


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... rator2.jpg


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd443/LIFTU/th_denitrator2.jpg


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

MONEYCYCLE said:


> [/img]http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd443/LIFTU/th_denitrator2.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 (not yet)


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

Ok I'll try again later.


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## Jesseschu (Mar 16, 2011)

All of this information is really interesting. With a DIY pic and description, it could be the answer to all our problems. Without the DIY piece, it seems just a mirage.


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

I apoligize for the lack of pics. I never did figure out how to post them here. I also abondond the post. It seems most of the fresh water guys dont have a problem with water changes because it is cheaper for them. I understand. For me it is the quest of the perfect environment. This has been the answer for me. For nitrate controll and adding calcium to my tank. Use google and do a search on sulphur denitrators and you will get alot of info and a few DIY to help explain. There is a commercial unit for sale as well but it has no orp monitor. This is an option but one I would not do without.
If you are interested feel free to ask me anything about it.


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## iwade4fish (Jan 5, 2009)

Someone suggested a DIY one, basically set up a colony of algae on fiter floss in a sump-type area. Place lights above/near it with low water flow coming in contact with the material. Algae uses the nitrates as food, thereby reducing them(nitrates). Sounds easy enough, but exactly HOW MUCH nitrate is removed is not easily determined.
Like I said, simple in theory, but aren't all DIY's?!?!

Why do you want added calcium? Is your local water lacking?


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## MONEYCYCLE (Oct 7, 2010)

This set up is an algea scrubber. It does work but takes up alot of space in original design and needs regular maint to keep the water flow through it to keep the algea healthy. the newer approach is smaller. If this is your plan here you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denitrator

The reason I use the aragonite after the sulphur is to buffer the water back to a ph of 7.5 to7.8 The constant addition of this to your tank will keep your ph up where it should be. the water from the sulphur chamber is acidic about ph 6.5. The sulphur chamber alone will drop your ph dramatically. As you know you need a ph of about 8.2 + or - and a gh of about 250ppm.
This will be a big help.


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