# Have redone tank & wanting to add Panda Garra



## Bernese (Aug 14, 2016)

I am new to Cichlid Forum but I have had Cichlids off & on for the past 16 years. My oldest Cichlid was 3 inches when I purchased him & I've had him now for about 4 years, which is the longest that I have had a single fish. I call him Carrot Top because he has a bright orange dorsal fin. I didn't know what he was at the time I found him. He is a Pseudotropheus Ice Blue Red Top Zebra Cichlid & is now 5 inches long! I never had really paid a lot of attention to my Cichlids until I got him because he was so unusual & I never had come across one like him. There was another with him that I purchased at the same time & he was a Pseudotropheus Ice Blue Zebra Cichlid which was about a 1/2" smaller at the time. I had always had the Convict Cichlids & raised them for awhile & then I got a few mixed ones that our little Pet Store in town had available. I had gotten a real deal on these 2 plus 2 others that have since died but were nothing special & just mixed but they had gotten so big the lady didn't want to fool with them any longer because she couldn't add any new small ones to the tank. So she sold all 4 to me for $5.00!! I have been hooked on getting some more unusual & rare ones that I don't see at the pet store after getting these 2 beauties! So now I special order them from her when I am able to save up a little extra money now & then.
I was given a fish by a friend, that was given a tank but didn't want the fish, it was a full grown Severum! I believe he is mixed between a gold & red Severum because he is a peachy color but doesn't have speckles on him like most of red ones have. He is a full solid color & he is beautiful! I have had him for almost 2 years now so I have no idea of his age or how long it takes one to grow that size but he was already fully grown.
My 55 gallon tank is set up now the best it has ever been. We moved in March & I took that opportunity to do a total redo of the tank. I had purchased the Glass Canopy & LED Bar Light in January, which that alone made a real transformation of the tank! So in March I started using Eco-Complete African Substrate instead of gravel, which I absolutely love! I only wish I had been using it all along. I have added 2 Aqueon Power Filters 30, a powerhead that I already had & I purchased a 1300 gph Wavemaker Powerhead to give oxygen to the water & give the effect of the ocean current, which the fish seem to really love.
The only problem I'm having is with Brown Algae, which I have never had before! I researched Brown Algae to find the cause & I discovered 3 causes which are too much lighting, overfeeding & low oxygen in water. Well I use to keep light on 24/7 using it as a night light then I got the LED light & used the blue light at night but after discovering it being one of the causes I have just started using it in the evening & not at night at all. I was feeding flake food twice a day but now I've started feeding floating pellets & pinch of flakes for the small ones once a day & I just purchased the wavemaker to increase oxygen to the water. I have a mix of sizes in my Cichlids from 1 inch to 7 inches & I have 3 Yoyo Loaches & I Golden Zebra Loach but they're not controlling the Brown Algae. I have cleaned everything & the tank completely but there is a film on the inside that you can't see but you can feel it & often I'll have some appear on the glass & I immediately clean it off & that's when I feel the film on the glass.
My cichlids seem to all get along pretty well except for an brief moment of bullying, which is normal plus with all the various sizes in the tank, I think that's pretty good & adding a few small Panda Garra's that are exceptional at grazing on algae to the mix I feel would be fine? I've seen a few tanks where they have the Panda Garra in with Cichlids but I wanted to ask the Cichlid Community for there opinions on the subject? Thank you for your time to read & interest.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Panda Garra appear to be an Asian species, therefore, probably née different water conditions than Africans. The little I found online about them reccomends they be kept in a group of several, either alone or with various asian barbs. Not sure I'd put them in an AC tank.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

If the other loaches are ok in there, you might try it if you can rehome it if it doesn't work out. Not sure there are many fish that do a great job at cleaning brown algae. High silica content and do atoms in new tanks cause it too. I had some at first, but it faded some as the tank has matured. I do scrape the front glass when I change water. I don't mess with the side glass. The way the tank sits you don't see it, and the fish don't really mind it.
What's your tank temp and pH, etc? Higher temps lower oxygen. Especially above 78F. Airstones can help with that.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I considered this fish as a cleaner but requirements are not the same so I did not try it.

I have also never heard of anyone with the mix, successful or otherwise.

The diatoms will go away on their own after a couple of months.


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## Bernese (Aug 14, 2016)

My tank temp & ph both are 78. I just started using a phosphate filter pad 2 days ago which is said to help with brown algae. I don't know this will help, I can only try. My tank has been set up since March but I recently did a 50% water change & cleaned all rock & decorations & glass 3 weeks ago. I started using the wavemaker powerhead last week to help increase oxygen.
I just read about the diatoms & I'm wandering now that if it may be my tap water which I always keep a few jugs sitting on hand for water changes. I never had a problem with brown algae before & like I stated I just moved in March & was wandering if it was in my tap water & what could I do about that?


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

A pH of 78 would be deadly. 7.8? 
Most people here with cichlids reccomend a minimum of 50% water change per week if not more. I do 50%weekly and it seems to be fine. What kind of rocks do you have in your tank and what substrate? I have a tank full of sandstone rocks which may increase my silicate/phosphate levels. If you use pool sand or silica sand that might contribute also. Give the special filter pad some time to work. It may help. 
Some tap water may also have high phosphate. Since you did move that may be an issue. Do you have private water or public water? Public water systems usually make their parameters available if you check online or look on your bill. Well water can also contain lots of dissolved minerals. Only way to know would be to have it tested. There may be a lab in your area that can do some chemistry testing for you. There may also be home testing kits out there,too. API may make one. The master test kit will give you a general hardness. 
Good luck. If you've never had problems before, it may well be your tap.


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

Oh sorry, I went back and read you are using eco complete substrate. I don't know a lot about it except that it's good for plants. Maybe it's contributing to excess nutrients?
And reading my posts, auto correct hates me. LOL. You at least knew I meant diatoms and not "do atoms".


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## Bernese (Aug 14, 2016)

I'm sorry! Yes, 7.8 & temp 78. LOL.. I'm not sure about the rock, they came from our back yard at old house & have had them for several years. My sand is Eco-Complete African Cichlid Substrate: Zack Black.
We are using city water, I will look at my bill to see if I can find anything out without having to test the water. Do you know what exactly I would be looking for on the bill?

My Tank is 55 gallon
1 Redtop Labidochromis Hongi Cichlid 
2 Bumbebee Maylandia Ornatus Cichlid \
2 Rusty Cichlid 
1 Lemon Yellow Labido Caeruleus Cichlid 
1 Burnt Orange Blotch Peacock Cichlid 
1 Orange Blotched Peacock Cichlid 
1 Auratus Cichlid 
2 Cobalt Blue Zebra Cichlid 
1 Electric Blue Johanni Cichlid 
2 Red Zebra Cichlid 
1 Pseudotropheus Ice Blue Red Top Zebra Cichlid 
1 Pseudotropheus Ice Blue Zebra Cichlid 
1 Aulonocara Fire Fish Cichlid 
1 Strawberry Peacock Cichlid 
1 Gold Severum 
3 Yo-Yo Lohachata Botia Loach 
1 Golden Zebra Loach


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

The city should be testing for chlorine chloramine, nitrates, hardness, pH, ccoliform/e coli bacteria, maybe phosphates and I'm not sure what else. Each state has drinking water standards. You may need to look on the utility's website. I actually work in a water testing lab but our part of the lab only does bacteria testing. A separate lab does chemistry testing.


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## Bernese (Aug 14, 2016)

Thanks for your help!


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## cmoorewv (May 20, 2016)

I hope you figure it out. I'm relatively new to african cichlids. But I've had other tanks for years. The ACs have really grown on me.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

It is not some kind of mystery. The tank has only been set up since march. Not unusual for new tanks to have diatoms. It's a passing phase that likely will last no more then a year.
I have my doubts that a panda garra would do well with aggressive cichlids. What they may or may not have in the same tanks at the LFS is usually not a good indication of how they will do under better conditions at home , especially over the long term. Fish are young juvies and are packed in small tanks at the LFS; usually not a good indication of how they will get along in the home aquaria.
Anyways, with 23 fish in a 55 gal., I really don't think you have the room to add more.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Agree, I you are going for variety then hopefully your fish are all males and maybe 10 individuals (if you are keeping the Africans) would be good in a 55G. I'd start by removing females and duplicates (you don't want look-alike fish as they will fight).


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## Bernese (Aug 14, 2016)

I only have 4 females with exception of the 2 Bumblebee & 2 Rusty which are fairly new & only 1.25 inch which I can't really tell on them yet other than 1 Bumblebee already has egg spots so I'm thinking is a male.
the 2 Cobalt Blue's are females & the 2 Red Zebra's are both males. The Auratus is a female & pretty sure my Johannii is a female. Of course that Severum takes the room of 3 full gown Mbuna's! Maybe he's the one I should consider moving tho he is aweful pretty?
I was just reading yesterday trying to figure out if it is the Electric Blue Melanochromis johannii or the Maingano, Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos, I don't know at what age they turn blue if they are the Electric Blue Melanochromis johannii which are yellow as juveniles & turn blue if male but when I bought him he was already blue & not over 2 inches but at our local pet store they never have more than a few at a time & they are the assorted mix unless you special order & he was the only one that was there.
I now believe mine is the Maingano, Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos because it definately DOES NOT have the checkboard effect but a definate blue stripe & the black on the belly is more faded & not so bold! Any suggestion?
I was going for the aiming for the all males but the Auratus ended up being a female & she is so pretty, I like her look. I have a favorite of the Cobalt Blue & the Red Zebra so I could swap those out but that still leaves the Cobalt being a female & I would rather wait a while for the Rusty's & Bumblebee's to show what they are before swapping out the wrong one.
I don't have another tank at this time thou I would like to have one eventually but where we live now I don't have the room for another large one. It would probably have to be a 30 or so?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

For a 55G with mixed gender I would do 15 fish, 3 species with 1m:4f of each.

I would not include bumblebee, auratus, johannii or maingano as they are better in larger tanks.

I would not include peacocks since females are drab and they crossbreed if there is > one peacock species in the tank.

I would stock only one Metriaclima so choose one among the ice blues, the cobalt or the red zebra.

Yellow labs, rusties and cobalt blue zebras would make a nice tank with 1m:4f of each.


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## Bernese (Aug 14, 2016)

I can see what your saying but I was going for all males, preferably. I have had this collection of the same ones 3 years. Ice Blue Zebra, Red Top Ice Blue Zebra, 2 Red Zebra, 2 Cobalt Blue & 1 Maingano or Johannii(still not certain) & then the past year & half the Severum, Auratus & Burnt Orange Peacock.
So I hate to make any changes to them that have gotten along so well other than reducing those to 1 where there are 2?
After reading on the Bumblebee & how aggressive & large they can get I totally agree on dropping those for sure! I also agree with dropping at least 3 of the 4 peacocks too! Don't you think that with trying to go for the males mainly & as long as those have been together & agreeable they should be fine?
Would like to know your thoughts on that?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you have a tank that is not supposed to work for > 2 years and you make no changes...chances are it will continue to work.

I would either keep everything the same (don't even remove anything), or go ahead and make all the changes to get something with a good chance of success.


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