# Cichlid developing growth on nose



## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

My electric blue has started to have a growth on his nose that started just a few days ago. It is confined only to the nasal area and the other fish seem fine. Water is low in all the bad stuff like ammonia, it is a planted tank so the plants take care of a lot of that. The little white streaks that look like worms in the picture are air bubbles, the camera shutter was too slow. The only thing new to the tank might be the PH being a bit higher than it has been in months past. I found out the city water supplies PH was above normal lately . I lowered it some about a week ago with seachem chemicals, dropped down to about 8.2 from 8.5.

Here is a pic of the fish.


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## Totalimmortal363 (Jan 10, 2008)

What's your temp at?

There is few things that can't solved with raising water temp and salt.


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## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

Totalimmortal363 said:


> What's your temp at?
> 
> There is few things that can't solved with raising water temp and salt.


I keep the temp at exactly 77F. I designed a heater controller for the tank that keeps the water within .5 degrees so that never fluctuates. I can raise the temp if needed. I haven't added salt to the water in quite some time.


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## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

I raised the temperature to 81F for about two days now and added some salt but the condition seems to be getting worse. The fish has also stopped eating and formerly was the main male aggressor in the tank and now just goes into his cave most of the time. I checked the water again today and the only thing that even registers out of normal is nitrates were about 10ppm. Nitrites, ammonia all just about too low to measure. PH is right around 8.2.

Really need to know what I can do next.


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## AC (Jul 26, 2010)

I have something similar going on and it was suggested to me to try antibiotics.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I would try an antibiotic first, bring your temp back down to 77. If it's a bacterial infection, higher temps will increase the rate of growth.
Nitrofurazone (API Furan-2) and Kanamycin (Seachem Kanaplex) work well together to create a broad based med.


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## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

I lowered the temp back down to 77 and added slightly more salt. I was able to get a really close up look finally, before the fish would always hide in his cave and I had to use 12x zoom on the camera, it looks like it has little white tufts coming off of it and is surrounds by a dark ring on the scales. He has given up his place as the alpha male in the tank and now just hides and will not eat, not even challenging the other males when they are flirting with the females, which he used to go crazy over chasing them back and forth across the tank so I know he must be feeling pretty bad.

I am wondering where something like this comes from. There has been nothing new added to the tank for months and all the other fish are healthy. Could it come from using yeast + sugar to make co2 for the plants ? Because it is starting to like kind of like a fungus growth.

I have ordered the anitbiotics , but they will not be here till tuesday it looks like. I live in a rural area and there are no pet stores within 30+ miles and I don't drive or have anyone that will go out and get the stuff so I ordered it from the closest store possible but couldn't afford the extra shipping. I hope he hangs on till tuesday, I keep telling him to hang on whenever I go by the tank, I know he is just a fish, but I have grown attached .


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

What's your normal water change schedule like? I assume your nitrates remain relatively low due to the plants? 
It's difficult to differentiate fungal and bacterial growths as both can cause fuzzy growths to appear. From the pictures, I'm leaning more towards bacterial infection, but even parasites aren't out of the question at this point. Hopefully the broad spectrum antibiotics will take care of it.


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## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

I change water weekly , about 20% , more if needed but that is rare. Nitrates are next to 0 . Any ideas where something like this comes from ? The other fish thankfully are unaffected at this point but whatever the one fish has is spreading. It started with just the two bumps, now there are 3 with 2 very tiny ones below those.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Without looking under a microscope, any attempt at identification would be a guess, so without knowing what it is, it's nearly impossible to say how it could have developed.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Think it was HLLE (Head and Lateral Line Errosion) but seems worse now.

I would use as HLLE treatment (Hole in the head treatment) like
http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Produ ... oductID=62

ingredients
sodium chloride
metronidazole
praziquantel

Or any other make of treatment for HLLE.

I read the microbes that caurse it are in every aquarium just they grow out of control on immuno supressed fish.

Same that are found in Malawi bloat intestines, Hexamita spp.and/or Spironucleus spp
If so a bloat cure would do the trick too.
But not sure so prob better using the broad spectrum General CureÃ¢â€žÂ¢ Powder or similar?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Possible, I thought it looked more like growths as opposed to a depression, however I don't have any first hand experience with HLLE/HITH and can't find any direct statement that they start out as growths.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Your right my mistake. First pic looked like errosion to me.  
It could I guess be secondary to a bit of HLLE but yep those growths do not seem usual for just HLLE. But both of us would try antibiotic first. Real fungal infections are I think quite rare.
Dunno is there a treatment that hits both in case it is that?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

'Both' as in HLLE and bacterial or HLLE and fungal?
Metronidazole seems to be the drug of choice when it comes to HLLE. While primarily anti-parasitic, it does have some effect on certain gram-positive bacteria. If this is bacterial, I'd put my money on it being gram-negative.
To my knowledge, there isn't an all in one medication that will treat both HLLE and fungal infections. As you say, fungal infections are fairly rare, or at least not as common as bacterial.


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## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

I started the medication yesterday , and it has been about 18 hours now. The white tufts are gone and the area is now just tissue but it looks like it might be too late. Whatever it is looks like it started with the nares and spread down into the mouth area. The poor thing has a hole now right above the top lip of the mouth and has lost vision on the left eye. When I saw him this morning I thought he was dead. He was lying on the bottom of the tank, and when I moved my hand near him he didn't even flinch, then I moved around the other side and he took off for the other side of the tank pretty fast, so he is still alive, but I am really doubtful he will make it now. I think I got the medication too late. I am not giving up on him but it looks really bad.


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## Fatal (Jan 15, 2012)

Hate to say it mate, but he's a goner, whatever the infection was its spread way too fast, medication is generally needed within the first few days of sighting the wound. Plus his eye sight will not repair. Keep using the treatment till he dies just so you know you did everything you could. I'll give him another 30hrs max before he snuffs it.


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## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

Fatal said:


> Hate to say it mate, but he's a goner, whatever the infection was its spread way too fast, medication is generally needed within the first few days of sighting the wound. Plus his eye sight will not repair. Keep using the treatment till he dies just so you know you did everything you could. I'll give him another 30hrs max before he snuffs it.


yeah, I think it has gone too far. I heard a splash a while ago and went to the tank and the stuff that was growing on his nose came off in the water, I got it out with the net quick, he then went to the bottom of the tank and started to float upside down. I didn't have a hospital tank but had a 2 gallon plastic container and I put some tank water air stone in the that and have placed him in it. He is still hanging on, gills are working and he is moving his fins but still upside down.

I can see now where the growth was before there is nothing now, it is gone down to bone. Sometimes I hate this hobby, I lost my favorite female to a pump two days ago and now my favorite male.

Thanks for the help everyone, the medications suggested apparently worked because the fungus like stuff died almost immediately and it looked like the rest is going away, but just too late.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

That progressed very quickly indeed. So sorry that you're having to go through this, it sucks, I know. 
I would still continue the med as long as he holds on, and in the main tank as well for another 3 or 4 days (or whatever the instructions indicate) as a precaution for the rest of the tank.


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## cgmark (Aug 18, 2010)

GTZ said:


> That progressed very quickly indeed. So sorry that you're having to go through this, it sucks, I know.
> I would still continue the med as long as he holds on, and in the main tank as well for another 3 or 4 days (or whatever the instructions indicate) as a precaution for the rest of the tank.


He just died. He kept floating to the surface and would stay there for a few seconds then flick his tail to try to go back under. I went over to the container he was in and turned him with my hand so he would be upright and I gently held him upright in the water and for a minute he seemed to be breathing better , then he did one huge swipe of his tail and then he was gone, I guess it was his last breath so to speak.

I'm continuing the meds in the main tank just in case. All the other fish look fine with no spots or anything but I want to make sure. I am considering taking the tank apart in a week or so to thoroughly clean it. The tank has been set up for years now and it is getting harder to clean the gravel and sand because stuff has slowly started to build up on the very bottom. I am thinking this contributed to the death of the fish. He had a cave that he owned and wouldn't let anything else near and constantly would bring rocks and gravel and cover it up till it almost reached halfway up the side of the tank. I found the last time I cleaned that he also was blocking a lot of the water flow and waste was building up inside that cave. He always ran to it when I cleaned so I never really got a good look inside till now.

The plant roots are another issue, they have become harder to manage as well, poking out of the gravel everywhere. I think it might just be due for an overhaul.


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