# Are there mbuna species combos that won't have hybrids?



## Conesus_Kid (Feb 3, 2010)

Hello all,

I am a middle school science teacher who has a room full of critters (snakes, turtle, fish, African clawed frog, etc.).

I've had a 55 gallon mbuna biotope aquarium set up for about four years now. It contains about a dozen yellow labs, 4 Acei, 3 (actually now 4) C. afra Likoma, and one female Auratus that was rehomed after it killed every fish in another teacher's 10 gallon community aquarium. :roll:

All of the cichlids frequently spawn and hold, especially after the weekly water change. I've seen some yellow lab fry, but usually they get picked off by the other inhabitants. (Frankly, I'm okay with this population control.)

The one exception is the C. afra Likoma. There has been one fry that has survived and is now about two inches in length. It has the dark coloration of a female, but I'll be keeping my eye on things to make sure it actually is a female and doesn't cause any problems.

I posed the question in the subject line because I have an 8 foot long 200 gallon aquarium in my classroom that has been a reef tank for the past 8 years. After a series of equipment failures and the stress of maintaining a reef at a place where I don't live, I've decided to convert it to a mbuna tank.

My original plan was to move the inhabitants of the 55g into this aquarium and add some other species. After further reflection, I'm going to maintain the 55g "as-is", since it's low stress, low maintenance, and is really stable in terms of inhabitants and aggression. This allows me to have a "blank canvas" in the large aquarium when it comes to stocking.

Ideally, I'd like to have a variety of species that will: 1) have a variety of colors, 2) be able to get along well enough where I won't be pulling out murder victims in front of my students, and 3) not cross-breed so that new fry that survive can be left in the aquarium without worrying about hybrids.

Is this list an impossibility, or is there a stocking list that you would recommend that would satisfy the requirements without having to stock Syodontis cats?

Thanks for any guidance you can provide!

Scott


----------



## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

Cross breeding in that tank can be minimized greatly if you pick the species carefully. That is, species that look very different in both color and possibly body shape. In an 8' tank, you could easily do 5-6 different groups of about 10-12 each. Off the top of my head, Rusties, Yellow Labs, Labeotropheus Fuelleborni, Acei(one of the 3 variants), a Cynotilapia Afra type(Cobue?), and Pseudotropheus Cyaneorhabdos. I'd get them all young and allow them to grow together. Depending on the aquascape and the cover it provides, you could easily get over run with fry once they start breeding. But at the same time, you need that cover for the mbuna. Adding Syno Multies isn't the worst thing anyway. If you are lucky enough, they may use the mbuna as a host for breeding. If you ever want to keep fry, stripping the fish is always interesting to those who've never seen it too.


----------



## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Given the criteria, I'd do a full stocking of 8 juvies of each of the following as the wallet allowed it:

Metriaclima sp. "Msobo"
Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos
Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt"
Iodotropheus sprengerae
Cynotilapia sp. "hara"
Pseudotropheus sp. ''Minutus Tanzania'' Manda
Cynotilapia sp. ''Lion'' Lion's Cove

No bruisers and plenty of color. I make it a habit of removing dominant trouble makers and have found good success getting calmer males. Though 8ft should be pretty forgiving.

Good luck.


----------



## NLaferriere (Jan 15, 2015)

A peaceful Tanganyikan community would be interesting for the kids. It's neat seeing a school of Cyprichromis fry scooting around, shelldwellers with their fry, and Julidochromis in the rocks with their fry. And you'd have fish inhabiting all areas of the tank with no diet restrictions.

For a Malawi tank you could do something similar with a schooling Copadichromis (pelagic utaka) species, a rockpile on one end with Cynotilapia (mbamba type) and a sand dwelling Aulonocara species that tend to hover just over the sand. No need for special diet requirements as the Cyno's are plankton feeders in the wild and aren't crazy aggressive, especially in a tank of that size. With that much room everything would have a chance to get away.


----------



## smitty (May 7, 2004)

So I take it you are worried about hybrids. I would not worry about that if you are willing to let them be feeders.


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

GoofBoy said:


> Given the criteria, I'd do a full stocking of 8 juvies of each of the following as the wallet allowed it:
> 
> Metriaclima sp. "Msobo"
> Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos
> ...


I like this list from Goofboy. I think you could also sub in a Labeotropheus trewavasae or fuelleborni for one of the species above if there is one you can't find or don't like.


----------



## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

For those that are recommending Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos, have you ever had this fish? The males, and even females, and become Physco killers.

What is wrong with a few Syno cats? They are nice looking, and will keep the fry population down.

I agree with Smitty--If you are not going to save the fry, or plan on selling/trading them, let them Hybrid. A pure strain taste the same as a hybrid. opcorn:


----------



## DrgRcr (Jun 23, 2009)

tanker3 said:


> For those that are recommending Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos, have you ever had this fish? The males, and even females, and become Physco killers.
> 
> What is wrong with a few Syno cats? They are nice looking, and will keep the fry population down.
> 
> I agree with Smitty--If you are not going to save the fry, or plan on selling/trading them, let them Hybrid. A pure strain taste the same as a hybrid. opcorn:


Yes, I've kept Maingano on two occasions and found the opposite, never had so much as a single death. You can have killers with ANY species if the aquascape and other stocking are incorrect. I've seen the normally docile Yellow Labs become psycho. With so many other fish in a large tank, it would be very tough for any one fish to stay focused on being the boss.


----------



## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

tanker3 said:


> For those that are recommending Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos, have you ever had this fish? The males, and even females, and become Physco killers.
> 
> What is wrong with a few Syno cats? They are nice looking, and will keep the fry population down.
> 
> I agree with Smitty--If you are not going to save the fry, or plan on selling/trading them, let them Hybrid. A pure strain taste the same as a hybrid. opcorn:


Kept a breeding group of 1m:4f in a 40Br for a couple of years - pulled out 40-50 fry of various sizes every time I tore the tank down to get rid of the little guys and start 'fresh' with just the adults.

Secret for me is to re-home the hyper(most)-aggressive males until I am left with the least aggressive male.

8ft tank should be plenty forgiving with dwarf mbuna.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The trick with hybrid fry is to not let them grow up. The adults don't ALWAYS get the babies. Five Synodontis multipunctatus will help a lot and be another interesting lesson.

Nothing is more depressing than having to hunt down/remove healthy "hybrid suspect" juveniles and make hard decisions about what to do with them.

Agree GoofBoy provided a good list, but I would stock 14 cyaneorhabdos to end up with 1m:7f.


----------



## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Thanks all, but not exactly what I meant. I like Mainganos too, and may add them to my tank. Just do not want everyone to think they are the most peaceful on the list.
And yes, the Haras will not be a "Push-over" either.


----------



## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

tanker3 said:


> Thanks all, but not exactly what I meant. I like Mainganos too, and may add them to my tank. Just do not want everyone to think they are the most peaceful on the list.
> And yes, the Haras will not be a "Push-over" either.


Maingano are arguably the more aggresssive on the list, but do think they get a bit of a bad wrap. They aren't *that* bad .

The OP is also stocking an 8ft tank. There is a lot of room to get away. DJ's thought of 14 is pretty spot on. I usually buy 10 of a species to get a group but cost to stock and size of tank, I thought lower numbers could/should work if you only get 3 girls in a species group. A Binominal Distribution Calculator will let you pick your odds on getting enough girls if it is of concern.


----------



## Conesus_Kid (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks for the responses. You've given me some great ideas. I've got the reef emptied out and want to give the aquarium and sump a good cleaning. It'll be at least a month or two before I'm ready to stock, but I'm looking forward to it!


----------



## Burner460 (Jul 24, 2014)

Mainganos are awesome, absolutely beautiful fish that will stand out, and you can definitely have them in a 200G tank. Like DJR said, 14 of them with 2m:12f would work fine.

Also, +1 for the syno cats!

You may also need to invest in an extra filter...


----------



## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Really, all will hybridize. As long as you have males for the females... and keep a male from going hyper dominant (when a male takes over the tank and won't let the other males breed), generally the fish will take care of their business. Females want to choose the right males. In a long tank, it should be easier.

It is helpful if you, the human, can tell the females apart. At least you can have an idea what is going on.


----------



## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

noki said:


> Really, all will hybridize. As long as you have males for the females... and keep a male from going hyper dominant (when a male takes over the tank and won't let the other males breed), generally the fish will take care of their business. Females want to choose the right males. In a long tank, it should be easier.
> 
> It is helpful if you, the human, can tell the females apart. At least you can have an idea what is going on.


Syno multipunctatus are great... they act as dither fish also in a group.


----------

