# Ugh! SO aggravating!!!



## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

So my fiance and I are getting married in 22 days. There is a wedding board that I have been frequenting for a bit now with a discussion forum. In the last week, there have been two threads started where the discussion of using live fish as centerpieces has come up. I tried to keep my mouth shut, but after reading pages and pages of replies that were "OMG! SO CUTE! That is such a great idea, you should totally do it", I couldn't take it any more so I posted about the reasons live fish should NOT be used as wedding reception centerpieces. There's a couple people who have piped up that they agree, but there's (of course) more people telling me I'm wrong and there's nothing wrong with using fish. It's so aggravating!

I just don't understand what it is that makes the world think of fish as such disposable items. The world thinks that goldfish and bettas are only "supposed" to live two months because the poor things are never given a **** chance to live their proper lives. I just don't get the lack of respect for fish.


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## famikert (Feb 20, 2003)

I think fish should be used as centerpieces, they are usually given away to the people at the tables, and most of the time they are bettas which can live in the vase, so I dont see a problem with it at all :fish:


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

famikert said:


> and most of the time they are bettas which can live in the vase


Can and should are two totally differant things. Besides, usually only 1 in 5 people that get them have them alive a week later, 1 in 10 a month.

But then I am the type of person that buys people 15 gallon tanks for a min. sized betta "bowl." :lol:

There is a very mammalian view that "lower" species don't "feel", thus they are disposable.

Again though, I am the type if person to catch a spider or moth and take them outside rather than kill them. I do kill mosquitos (becuase of confirmed West Nile around here) and bees/wasps (highly allergic) ... but I do apologize to them.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

famikert said:


> they are usually given away to the people at the tables


But what percentage of people at the tables want fish or care enough to try to provide proper living conditions? Maybe if you only invite CF members to your wedding it would be OK, LOL.



famikert said:


> and most of the time they are bettas which can live in the vase, so I dont see a problem with


Survive versus thrive is the issue. I always cringe when I see those bettas in cups at the chain fish stores. Betta keepers who research go for larger, filtered, temperature controlled tanks.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*SinisterKisses*
manipulation works best IME... instead of animal rights, try painting the following picture:

"me? I'm not fond of death at my wedding... nothing would doom the marriage more IMHO than the bad vibes of a belly up fish at someone's table. or that white gross fuzz that can grow on their face! imagine if a fish suddenly turned up with some gross fuzz at the dinner! "

It might work! :thumb: :lol:


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> famikert said:
> 
> 
> > they are usually given away to the people at the tables
> ...


Survival vs thrival, you hit the nail on the head.

To answer and debunk those myths, you need to understand that bettas live in rice paddies, now, most of the year they have acres and acres and miles and miles of shallow water to live in, they can breathe air from the surface so they can live well in low light, low oxygen water, true, however it is MUCH warmer than room temperature, and most of the time they have tons of room.

For a month or two during the dry season yes, they have less room, but it's still a heck of a lot more than a vase!! Actually, it's probably still nearly an acre per "puddle" if you want to call it that.

I've kept bettas for a few years, typically 10 gallons but like cichlids, they need a footprint. I brought home a dim red betta, tossed him in a heated, cycled 10 gallon planted tank, in two weeks he was much brighter, extremely active (you should see a betta in a THRIVAL type atmosphere, they are SO much fun, they follow you around the room and beg for food, flare at you to show their dominance, mine even swims through the plants like an obstacle course, kinda funny to watch). Anyway, within a month he started having these very shiny blue scaled mixed with his red, and made some HUGE bubble nests, he recently died, at 2 years old from a fungal infection, which he survived MUCH longer than he really should have, unfortunately I never could get it under control (most aquarium medicinals are harmful to bettas, like melafix which actually rots their fins), heat, salt, and very small doses of pimafix is about all I could do. I know others who have 5 year old bettas in similar conditions.

So yes, they can "live" in a vase.

So here is a better example, have or adopt two children, allow one to live with you, put the other in the trunk of your car, still feed him, change his clothes maybe once a week or so, and clean the trunk, but don't let him out of the trunk, or heat it or AC it or anything. See which kid looks healthier after a year! (Kidding, of course, but you get the idea, chances are trunk-kid won't die, but he will be much worse off than non-trunk-kid).


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Thank you! It's so nice to be among like-minded fish lovers, lol.

I actually made reference to something along the lines of "why don't you put a puppy in a glass box on your table and then give it out to random people at the end of the night to take home" - that didn't go over well.

I refuse to keep bettas in anything less than 5gal tanks with filters. I've never once said that bettas CAN'T live in vases, but they absolutely SHOULDN'T have to.

Technically, I could live in a 6x6' glass box, too, but I wouldn't be happy and I wouldn't thrive.


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

Although I've never heard of it happening at a wedding (usually because the small, cold glasses and all of the stress mutes their activity) But bettas are some of the best jumpers out there, I bet THAT could spoil a dinner!

Now, I'm not the kind of guy that says "Fish are people too" Because they are not, they are fish. However, they are fish! Fish need ample room, good food, etcetera, in other words they need to be treated like fish, not flowers!

And yeah, same here, a 5 gallon minimum is good, same here but I think 10 gallons is great for a betta community. Anything less than 5 though, or maybe, MAYBE those 4 gallon "cubes" with a sponge filter and heat, but anything less and your only going to have him for a few months AND you won't get to see him at his full potential at all, you want something fun, put him in a 5g+ tank and change the centerpiece decoration alot (like we rotate a house, a driftwood log, a little castle thing, and sometimes we will buy something new). He will flare at it, inspect it, swim through all of it, and sometimes even decide which Oto cat gets to live in which spot (he will chase away certain otos from certain areas but not other otos, sometimes I worry about them getting stressed but they seem fine, anyway it's kind of funny to watch!)


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## TheFishFactory (Jan 28, 2010)

I rent out fish centre pieces for weddings, I set up the bowls an hour before guests arrive and remove them after the meal, they are in there for a maximum of 6 hours. Don't see what your problem is and why you think that the fish are viewed as disposable items.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Here they aren't rented, but are taken home with the guests at the end of the night.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Well, renting them is slightly better, though it still stresses the fish out. But my main concern is what happens to the fish after - and 90% of the fish used for weddings are purchased and given away, not rented.

So that's my problem. And worldwide, fish generally ARE considered and viewed as disposable items.


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## Malawidolphin (Dec 15, 2006)

I could just see the "drunk side of the family" making bets as to who can swallow the fish live or the very same people adding liquor to the bowls or both adding loquor then chugging. Only a few fish will survive the night to be taken home.


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## Bearbear (May 8, 2010)

I actually made reference to something along the lines of "why don't you put a puppy in a glass box on your table and then give it out to random people at the end of the night to take home" - that didn't go over well. 
-------------------
Dogs are still treated pretty poorly, although fish do have it worse.
Ran out of room for adopting dogs so turned to fish to help with stress.
Was a great example though. :thumb:


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2010)

SK, I see where you are coming from......not a good idea for people that will not make the fishes' well being a priority.

We did this at our wedding, but I did much planning and preparation beforehand. We did two fancy goldfish in each table vase, and used treated water as well as having things like O2 tablets, etc. on hand.

We left cards at the tables with info on how to care for the fish, and announced that they could be taken home at the end of the night. Any that were left were then returned to the LFS the next day.

Was neat how friends and family would keep us updated on their fish, and also the comments we received about how they liked that we did this at our wedding.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2010)

Oh and BTW congrats and wishing you all the best!!


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm actually considering using RCS in my own wedding centerpieces. I feel that I should take advantage of the opportunity to do some aquatic centerpieces the right just because I know that we're one of the few couples that would do it properly.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Which was kind of my thought...I figured I KNEW I would do it properly so maybe I could get away with it...but I just couldn't talk myself into not feeling totally guilty about it so I decided not to.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

SinisterKisses said:


> Which was kind of my thought...I figured I KNEW I would do it properly so maybe I could get away with it...but I just couldn't talk myself into not feeling totally guilty about it so I decided not to.


Yeah, I figure with the shrimp that I could just take them all back and return them to their aquarium. I could just bring a cooler and dump them all in, they are living on my deck after all.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Seems reasonable.

My other thought was what to do with them at the end of the night...I mean, there was NO WAY I would give them out, they would definitely come back with me and I would find them approved homes from that point...but at the end of the night I'm certainly not going to want to deal with live animals and we're not going home that night, we're staying at a hotel. So that was an issue for me as well.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

I guess I get the benefit of not being the only aquariast in my family. If I go this route then I can have one of my brothers take the RCS back to their hotel room and put them in with an air pump.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

See, I don't have that, lol. I'm the only fish crazy in my family/friends.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Well I figured that if I can breed enough fish/shrimp to do the centerpieces at no expense and I can insure a safe return for them it would be ok. The wife (to be) isn't sold on the idea. I figure the RCS are pretty hardy as they've been out on my deck since may in a 20 gallon tub. There are also some snake skin endlers in there that are actively breeding, so I think they may be hardy enough as well. I fear that they'll have to come inside after my wedding anyway so I'll be moving them regardless, now they have just a little further to go with a 1 night stop over.


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

Bettas, being anabantoids don't need air pumps, the shrimp would but the bettas wouldn't. (They will just swim up and take a deep breath from the surface!)


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Shrimp won't need an air pump during the reception. The problem with bettas it what to do after the reception, as they can't all go into a single container and I'm loathe to send them home with other people. Pretty much any tropical fish can hangout at room temperature for 8 hours. What do you think happens at a fish auction? :lol:


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i worked a wedding where they had betas as centerpieces, well of course each table started combining the fish to get them to fight

also did a underwater themed graduation party, half the fish were dead by the end of it, it is sad, but people are stubborn as ****, even some of our members don't grasp the concept of propper fish care, you can't expect a bunch of airhead bridezillas to


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## nauTik (Mar 18, 2009)

cjacob316 said:


> airhead bridezillas


 :lol:


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

cjacob316 said:


> i worked a wedding where they had betas as centerpieces, well of course each table started combining the fish to get them to fight


Ugh, I didn't even THINK of that, but clearly some people would do it! Jeez.


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