# New To A Sump



## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

I have a 55 gallon and a 20 gallon tall that both cant be drilled. I want to set up a sump using the 20. If I could be walked through this with pictures of your sumps and how strong of a pump I would need thanks.


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## livingroomdiver (Oct 10, 2011)

If it's at all possible, drill the main tank. Glass-Holes.com has everything you need to do it. If you use a jig, it's a lot simpler than you might think. A straight overflow is much more reliable than a siphon system. If your siphon loses suction, but the pump keeps running (think power outage) then you've got a mess on your hands. With a drilled overflow, the amount of water that is pumped in is the amount of water that flows out. It balances itself.

As for the sump, lay out how much space you need for your pump and heater, then use the rest of the space for filter sock, bio balls, etc. Put as much biological filtration in as you can, while keeping in mind that you're gonna need to get to it for cleanings and such. I would advise having the drain line let out about 3" below the water line in the sump. It will cut down on splashing noise tons.

Good luck!


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

livingroomdiver said:


> If it's at all possible, drill the main tank. Glass-Holes.com has everything you need to do it. If you use a jig, it's a lot simpler than you might think. A straight overflow is much more reliable than a siphon system. If your siphon loses suction, but the pump keeps running (think power outage) then you've got a mess on your hands. With a drilled overflow, the amount of water that is pumped in is the amount of water that flows out. It balances itself.
> 
> As for the sump, lay out how much space you need for your pump and heater, then use the rest of the space for filter sock, bio balls, etc. Put as much biological filtration in as you can, while keeping in mind that you're gonna need to get to it for cleanings and such. I would advise having the drain line let out about 3" below the water line in the sump. It will cut down on splashing noise tons.
> 
> Good luck!


My 55 said it was tempered glass, so I cant drill the tank. Unless just the bottom is tempered?


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## livingroomdiver (Oct 10, 2011)

In most cases (no guarantee) only the bottom is tempered. PLEASE make sure before you try drilling, but if it's not tempered, drilling is a very simple process if you follow the steps. There's a lot of vids on youtube that show exactly how to do it.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Well This is how I would do it without drilling.

Use the overflow box with the syphon method. 








These aren't necessarily the correct measurement's.

The water go's into the overflow then is syphoned to the 
"outside box" and drained down to the sump. The water goes through the baffle's, media, bubble trap, etc. and is returned to the tank.

Now let's say you have a power outage, the pump stop's pumping water into the aquarium and the overflow box is above the water line so there will be no overflowing in the sump or the main tank.

Basically this is what happpen's.









Hope this help's!


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

thanks the pictures really help!


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Glad to help, I would love to see some pic's of your setup.


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> Glad to help, I would love to see some pic's of your setup.


Im still trying to decide if I want to run a sump/refugium on my 55. Not sure if its worth all the work.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

It's defiantly worth the work! IMO


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> It's defiantly worth the work! IMO


Thanks for all the help, and the great posts.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

No problem, Glad to help!


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> No problem, Glad to help!


I got my plan done how does it look?







[/list]


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## BigDaddyK (Nov 6, 2006)

I think that you'll be sorry having the filter floss under the bio balls. you will have to remove the BB everytime you need to clean that filter floss. Unless i'm missing something in your drawing


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

BigDaddyK said:


> I think that you'll be sorry having the filter floss under the bio balls. you will have to remove the BB everytime you need to clean that filter floss. Unless i'm missing something in your drawing


 No they would be under them, so bio balls all the way down? with a prefilter sponge on the top of the bioballs?


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## BigDaddyK (Nov 6, 2006)

well that's a good question... From my stand point I think that I'd only use a layer of filter floss as opposed to what looks like a large section. For me I'd want the filter floss to pull out the big chunks before they wedge themselves into the bio balls. I would double your bio ball section and just have a piece of egg crate on top that you can lay a single layer of filter floss on at the top.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

I would put the sponge first then the bio-ball's. just as *BigDaddyK* said, "I'd want the filter floss to pull out the big chunks before they wedge themselves into the bio balls."

That make's complete sense.


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

BigDaddyK said:


> well that's a good question... From my stand point I think that I'd only use a layer of filter floss as opposed to what looks like a large section. For me I'd want the filter floss to pull out the big chunks before they wedge themselves into the bio balls. I would double your bio ball section and just have a piece of egg crate on top that you can lay a single layer of filter floss on at the top.
> 
> I hope that makes sense.


Makes perfect sense. Ill revise my plans and get a picture back up. Thanks


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> I would put the sponge first then the bio-ball's. just as *BigDaddyK* said, "I'd want the filter floss to pull out the big chunks before they wedge themselves into the bio balls."
> 
> That make's complete sense.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

How big of an aquarium is this sump going to be?


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> How big of an aquarium is this sump going to be?


Its a toss up between a 20 gal tall and a 40 breeder. As of now it will be for just a 55.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

If your going to do a long tank like that as a sump do something like this,










That's not in detail as you'll need you "accessories" but you should understand.


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> If your going to do a long tank like that as a sump do something like this,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I could also use the new placement of the filter floss between the two plate in my tall design also?


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Like this, would this be effective? Any more revision to the design? Feel like were getting somewhere


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

Refering to my design, The first section will be the intake, the first baffle will have the filter sponge, the second section will have sand, heater, etc., second baffle could be more filter floss or w/e, third section could be the Bio ball's and the out take. I prefer a long rather then tall sump.


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## livingroomdiver (Oct 10, 2011)

Looks good. If you're not dead set on a refugium in the middle, that would be a great spot for some Kaldnes K1 media. I works amazingly well for removing ammonia, nitrates & nitrates and requires almost no upkeep once it's up and running. The only difference would be a bit of screening on the outflow side to keep them in, and an airstone to stir the pot.


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Aulonocara_Freak said:


> Refering to my design, The first section will be the intake, the first baffle will have the filter sponge, the second section will have sand, heater, etc., second baffle could be more filter floss or w/e, third section could be the Bio ball's and the out take. I prefer a long rather then tall sump.


Is there a benefit to having the bioballs last? And do you just have the bioballs all submerged?


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## Aulonocara_Freak (May 19, 2011)

lokipeacocks said:


> Is there a benefit to having the bioballs last?


Not really, only thing that you do get is cleaner bio-ball's.



lokipeacocks said:


> And do you just have the bioballs all submerged?


Yes, they'll all be submerged.


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## BigDaddyK (Nov 6, 2006)

bio balls should not be submerged more than necessary. Sometimes they might be in a compartment that is partially submerged but realistically they work their hardest when in a wet/dry system.


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

livingroomdiver said:


> Looks good. If you're not dead set on a refugium in the middle, that would be a great spot for some Kaldnes K1 media. I works amazingly well for removing ammonia, nitrates & nitrates and requires almost no upkeep once it's up and running. The only difference would be a bit of screening on the outflow side to keep them in, and an airstone to stir the pot.


Never heard of that but found some info on it, looks like a really good idea. My one questions is how does it remove nitrate?


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

BigDaddyK said:


> bio balls should not be submerged more than necessary. Sometimes they might be in a compartment that is partially submerged but realistically they work their hardest when in a wet/dry system.


So how should I redesign my sump to get the most out of it?


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

lokipeacocks said:


> BigDaddyK said:
> 
> 
> > bio balls should not be submerged more than necessary. Sometimes they might be in a compartment that is partially submerged but realistically they work their hardest when in a wet/dry system.
> ...


You need a separate section, using 2 walls of the aquarium and another singel wall, to form a tower that extends above the water line of the sump. Have the water inlet hit a drip tray. Under the tray is the compartment, with an egg crate bottom that is right about the water line, maybe an inch or two under, the normal water line. The egg crate holds the balls above the water. The balls will always be wet from the drip tray, never under water.


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## livingroomdiver (Oct 10, 2011)

In all honesty, I'm no biologist, but I do know that my nitrates have not been above 5 ppm since I got cycled. I do have some plants running in my system, so I'm sure they use up a lot of that too. The K1 is the only bio filtration I have in the system other than what builds up in my mechanical media. It took a bit of tweaking to get them situated the way I wanted, but now that they're set, I won't have to mess with cleaning them at all. With bio balls, you'll have to dig out a portion of them for a rinse from time to time. Not so with K1.


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

CITADELGRAD87 said:


> lokipeacocks said:
> 
> 
> > BigDaddyK said:
> ...


Thanks adding a tower and a drip plate would be very beneficial


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

livingroomdiver said:


> In all honesty, I'm no biologist, but I do know that my nitrates have not been above 5 ppm since I got cycled. I do have some plants running in my system, so I'm sure they use up a lot of that too. The K1 is the only bio filtration I have in the system other than what builds up in my mechanical media. It took a bit of tweaking to get them situated the way I wanted, but now that they're set, I won't have to mess with cleaning them at all. With bio balls, you'll have to dig out a portion of them for a rinse from time to time. Not so with K1.


How big of a tank and sump do you have?


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

CITADELGRAD87 said:


> lokipeacocks said:
> 
> 
> > BigDaddyK said:
> ...










with the bio ball drip plate


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

I would rather put it inside the tank, for me, it was a lot of piece of mind regarding watertight, a factory made aquarium of something I made.

My tank is a 60G, so I had a tons of extra space.


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## livingroomdiver (Oct 10, 2011)

[/quote]How big of a tank and sump do you have?[/quote]

My sump is a 20 long, with a 6" section devoted to 3 liters of K1. The trick is to have the k1 in a spot where you get downflow from the water and combine it with updraft from the air pump to get a churning effect that causes them to crash into each other and knock off the old gunk (tech term) and make room for the new. The section you have set aside for bioballs right now would be perfect.


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

How big of a tank and sump do you have?[/quote]

My sump is a 20 long, with a 6" section devoted to 3 liters of K1. The trick is to have the k1 in a spot where you get downflow from the water and combine it with updraft from the air pump to get a churning effect that causes them to crash into each other and knock off the old gunk (tech term) and make room for the new. The section you have set aside for bioballs right now would be perfect.[/quote]Is that all the filtration you have on your tank?


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## livingroomdiver (Oct 10, 2011)

The overflow drains to a 200 micron 4"x8" sock, then flows through blue filter pad, then it comes to the section of K1, which is contained on the backside by another level of blue filter pad which is zip tied to a piece of egg crate. From there it flows over the heater and on to the return pump. I'm gonna post a vid on my youtube channel soon. It'll be a lot easier than trying to draw something up in MS Paint or something.


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

livingroomdiver said:


> The overflow drains to a 200 micron 4"x8" sock, then flows through blue filter pad, then it comes to the section of K1, which is contained on the backside by another level of blue filter pad which is zip tied to a piece of egg crate. From there it flows over the heater and on to the return pump. I'm gonna post a vid on my youtube channel soon. It'll be a lot easier than trying to draw something up in MS Paint or something.


Sounds good thanks for the help, ill check that video out when you get it up =)


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## livingroomdiver (Oct 10, 2011)

Hopefully this makes sense. Blue is the filter pad on the grey egg crate. Green is the filter sock, purple is the airstone beneath the swirling K1. It's all contained in a 20 long.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

You really don't need the airstone for K1. I saw a video on youtube of a guy who did this almost exact same thing but with MUCH more K1 and he didn't use an airstone and his K1 was swirling all over the place.


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## livingroomdiver (Oct 10, 2011)

My understanding is that the bacterial colonies develop better on the K1 with a lot of oxygen. Also, the air bubbles help to keep the pieces from getting stuck in the corners like snowdrifts


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Bacteria does do better in areas with a higher percentage of oxygen present but a common air stone won't give enough oxygen to make much of a difference.


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## livingroomdiver (Oct 10, 2011)

Well anyway, they circulate better with the air driving up from below. The best part about them in my mind is zero maintenance. Other than making sure that they all stay contained where you want them to be (they are escape artists) and maintaining the flow of air and water over them, there isn't much to do.


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

livingroomdiver said:


> Well anyway, they circulate better with the air driving up from below. The best part about them in my mind is zero maintenance. Other than making sure that they all stay contained where you want them to be (they are escape artists) and maintaining the flow of air and water over them, there isn't much to do.


Can k1 be used in a saltwater also?


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## livingroomdiver (Oct 10, 2011)

I have not heard of it being used in saltwater. I just tried Googling it, and didnt't find anything. I don't see why it wouldn't work. All it does is provide surface area for bacteria to colonize. In theory that should work in either system.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Bacteria would colonize it, but the salt/ calcium could cause it to stop moving and not be as useful.


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## lokipeacocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks for all the help!


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