# Bolivian Rams or A. Cacatuoides?



## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

I have finally decided that i want to keep dwarf cichlids in my new 60gallon. its something i have wanted to try but have not yet. However I have not decided exactly what i would like to stock. I really like bolivian rams but i also would like to try Cacatuoides. Are these two fish capible of being kept together, if so how many of each, also. do you think i would be better off doing just Bolivian Rams or A. Cacatuoides? and finally, what are some other fish that would go well with these?

This is the tank im dealing with, the plants are fake, but there are distinct territorial boundries with the rocks and driftwood. Tell me if you think this is an allright setup for dwarves. I am running 2 penguin 350 filters both of which i will add peat to lower the ph. (currently 7.6ish)










basically, if this were your tank, what would you do, Bolivian Rams, Cacatuoides or both, and what would you mix in.

Thanks for looking and all input is very welcomed.


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

I think that's a nice start to the tank :thumb:

I would add a few more plants in the back to create more shelter and break up the view of the background.

If it were me, I would keep a group of 5-7 bolivian rams. I have kept Rummynose tetra, Lemon tetra, and currently keep Gold tetra with my bolivians. All of those are good choices. Rummynose are probably the most popular choice. Other good options would be a group of Otos or cories.

You could probably keep A. cacatuoides and bolivians together in there okay. I believe *Kim* keeps those two species together so hopefully she will give you feedback on that mix. You would just need to keep less bolivians (2-4) if you added a pair of apistos. The cacs would appreciate a cave or two, but if you only keep bolivians you don't need any.

Have you considered live plants? *Blair* or *Dutch Dude *could give you some good advice, me not so much :lol:

I also wouldn't worry about adding peat, pH 7.6 is fine for bolivians. Goodluck,

Ed


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

You can tie some Java fern and anubis onto that good looking driftwood with cotton thread. They are low light plants that do well without much care. I often put them in tanks with plastic and silk plants. Somehow having real plants takes away attention from the fake plants and they will appear real too.

I've kept Bolivian Rams with Apistos without problems. The apistos did breed a few times but the fry were eaten. The rams never bred as far as I could tell. Apistos are shorter lived fish so many people like to keep a colony of them to continue having them.

I suggest adding a bristlenose cat and some corys.


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## Hubbynz (May 10, 2008)

I like the look of you tank, simple but effective. I don't normally like plastic plants but the look good how you have laid the tank out with them in the background.

I don't have experience yet with either of these dwarfs but I was looking to do a similair thing to you.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

in a 60g they should be fine together, id say a trio/harem of Cockatoo's and a Pair of Bolivians would be a nice tank, Rummy-nose are my favorite tetra personally, but to each his own.


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## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

I think it's a great set up. I would also recommend using a few easy live plants. Java ferns, java moss, anubias are all excellent plants for low maintenance. Just tie them onto the driftwood with fishing line or cotton string. The apisto's and bolivians would go good together. I also had kept an apisto with bolivian and GB's. If you had lot's of wood and plants, you could easily get away with 2 pairs of rams, and a small colony of apisto's. Any tetras would look great with them, neons would be one of my first choices. I have also used ghost shrimp in the past as a clean up crew. They did a good job for me. Or you could try a BN pleco. I also like the otocinclus and siamese algae eaters. 
I would definitely recommend having some fish for clean up. Can't wait to see the final product :thumb:


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## hollyfish2000 (Aug 23, 2007)

I agree with the rummynose and cory suggestions. Ideally, you won't do otos unless you have live plants. Otherwise, just stick with a nice bristlenose pleco for algae control. Don't do siamese algae eaters -- they can be beasts. I've done them twice and both times eventually fished them out and returned them to the LFS. They mucked up the feng shui of the tank!!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I'd deffinately go oto's ... mostly becuase I have a psycho bristlenose that rules the tank full of pikes, has dominated a breeding convict pair, as well as jewels and an argentea ... so wouldn't trust it with dwarves. While I know that level of aggression is unusual for a bristlenose, the waste alone would have me avoid it with dwarves.


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## MetalHead06351 (Oct 3, 2007)

ottos are a better idea. you don't need to have real plants for them, although they do enjoy it better. Much less waste and similar in size to the other fish you have. Plus you could have 4 or 5 instead of just one pleco. I keep both (in different tanks) and I see the ottos all the time, while the bn pleco gets seen about once every month and a half.


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks for your input everyone, i appreciate all the comments. I would have gone with live plants if i had known the tank would turn out like this. I was going to use it as a growout for centrals. I knew they would rip up live plants so bough plastic. well, after i got the driftwood and saw i could make an arch i thought i could add some rock and petrified wood on the sides, the tank turned out totally differnt than i had originally planned, but i was extremely happy with the outcome.I will most likley add some live plants too, originally i wanted a full planted tank but then changed my mind to centrals, then here i am back where i started. i* think* im gonna go with a good group of bolivian rams, at least 5, along with some cardinal tetra and probley ottos or corys. We will see. im going to some stores to check out what they have right now.

Thanks again and more comments and suggestions are welcome as there wont be any fish for a few more weeks anyway.


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

allright, so i just got back from checking out every lfs within 45 minutes. only 1 store had apistos but they were not cacatuoides and someone was coming for them tomarrow apparently... i also only found 4 bolivian rams. 2 pair, 2 differnt stores. the first store wanted 12.99 each, $26 for the pair, then at the other store they were 9.99 each, so to get both pair it would cost me $46 plus tax. Is this worth it? I was willing to spend 50 bucks on the rams, but i was hoping for at least 5. also, would 2 pair be good. everyone seems to be saying odd numbers or 5 to 7. Lastly, i did not see any rummynose tetra, i did see cardinals and neons. however cardinals were 3.99 each and neons were 2.99 each. there were also many other tetra, but these were the only ones i really looked for. my only thought was that to do the cardinals or neons it would be pretty expensive to get a good school in my tank. how many tetra and what kind do you recommend.

thanks in advance


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

I just pulled 5-7 out off the top of my head :lol: Even numbers are good too. Two pairs would be nice and leave you room for a few more eventually or Apistos. Those bolivians are very expensive though!

With tetra it mainly comes down to personal preference. Some prefer one large shoal of a single species, while others prefer two smaller shoals of two different species. I think 20-25 tetra total would be a good number for your tank.


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

thanks alot for your help. i have decided that i definatly wanna go with the bolivians, if those 4 are still availible by the time my tank finishes its cycle, (should be pretty soon now) i will probley end up biting the bullet and getting them. I talked to the store owners and apparently bolivians are usually not something they stock, they say most people prefer the blue or gold rams so thats all the usually get. should i get the bolivians at the same time as the tetra and add them all at once? or should i get one before the other? im doing a fishless cycle and my tank is neutralizing 4ppm of ammonia within 8 hours now. part of me is saying do one at a time, the other part of me is saying do them both at once so i dont loose alot of bacteria if the ammonia isnt up to where it has been, also, my other filter came in today. should i add this immediately or can this slow down my cycle?


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## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

Get the tetras first. And I would probably take the 9.99 rams, not the 12.99 ones. As far as im concerned 12.99 is too much for one. Ask the pet store if they will do special orders on fish. If they are a reputable store they will do that for you. It is even better to mix fish from different parents, then if they pair up, you have less chances of poor quality fry. So try and get them from different sources if you can. I am sure you will see more around somewhere, or see if you can order them yourself from online. Start a group order in your area or something. You can try either the neons or cardinals.

Hollyfish, are you sure you are not mistaking them for chinese algae eaters? I have both, my siamese only bother each other from what i've ever seen, but the chinese do get vicious. Siamese only grow to about 4", whereas the chinese can grow larger to around 6-7". My siamese algae eaters did an awesome job on my algae, but they might eat some plants. I have never witnessed my SAE's being aggressive towards other fish, even otto's.


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## Zack2112 (Jul 11, 2008)

i thought i was going to be able to special order fish from one of the stores i usually go to. whoever i talked to on the phone said they could for me. but when i got there to tell them what i wanted the owner told me he doesnt do any special orders and blah blah blah. so that option was out. Right now the plan is as follows:

5 bolivian rams ( i found 1 more)
10 rummynose tetra
15 cardinal tetra (or neons, depending on how many cardinals are available)
4 corys

i also will be adding a few more plants and some java moss if i can find it.

i know many of the things i have mentioned to be hard to find throughout the post are fairly common, however, in my area, there are almost no stores that sell anything more than the regular fish you could get at a mijer... it sucks.

1 more question, if i add the tetra and corys, how long could i wait to add the bolivians? i dont know what kind of bioload that the tetra and corys can produce and i dont want to wait too long for the rams, loose my bacteria, and go thru a mini cycle with my rams in there.


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## marge618 (Mar 12, 2006)

Hi,
Following your plans for bolivians and apistos (a bit late). Seems it's hard to find what you want in LFS stores in your area of Michegan. Have you looked for a fish, or cichlid club in your area? How about ordering from someone reliable like Rapps?

Good luck with your new tank.
Later.
Marge


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