# Fluidized Bed Filter Pump



## Jakemonaghan90 (Nov 30, 2008)

Hey there,

I saw a giant FBF in a pet store the other day, and it was completely new to me. I researched a little, and the article i found here was awesome. I want to build one, but I have a quick question:

Are there any guidelines for the pump...how many GPH per pound of sand/size of tanks?

I'm looking for guidelines because there are multiple sized tanks that i want to use the FBF on.

Lastly, any thoughts on hooking it into a sump...will i need two pumps? or could 1 pump work to power the water to the sump and subsequently through the FBF?

Thanks in advance.


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## phill (Jan 29, 2004)

The design requirements are a little more complex than what i initially thought for a FBF. I have seen a big home built set up ( 6 foot 18" diameter cylinder for a 50 tank fish room), and that person suggested flow rate and design of the center pipe is critical. It can be done but i would suggest a initial setup w/o permanent connections so that you can alter the design.

Extremely efficient N cycle converters but you will still need mechanical filtration. You have a sump so that isn't an issue.


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## Jakemonaghan90 (Nov 30, 2008)

I imagine that it will be complicated...but I don't even know where to begin without a pump size.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Hey jake...I was looking at making one myself, for sure smaller then that 6 footer.
After some deep thought, or was that a beer, anyway, I am going with this 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=184805


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## Jakemonaghan90 (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks for the link. That system looks pretty cool, but I'm still not sold.

I feel like the media in the tube will get grimy. That's what I liked about the FBF. And another huge advantage of the fbf is it's efficiency: 1 lb of sand is good for close to 100 gallons of water...gotta like those numbers.

Good luck with your project, I'd love to see how it comes out.


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## kodyboy (Dec 9, 2007)

What size tank is this for? Although it might be fun to build Pentair Aquatics (lifeguard) makes an excellent FBF for relatively cheap that comes in three sizes and can handle huge tanks. 
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumP ... ilter.html
I have two of them, they work great. I put a sponge pre-filter on them to minimize crud build-up.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Had another beer, er ah, mean thought..1lb. sand for 100gal.
That would amount to a good size handfull for my 55. Hmmmmm.
I would think(it could happen)it would not take much to keep even a couple of lbs in suspension. Maybe a power head????
I saw one discription where they used marbles in the bottom to help get the flow going after any stoppage.
As to the other type bio filter, no reason the top could not screw on, just a couple more fittings  
If you get this worked out, sure would like to see some pics.
Good luck to ya!


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## Jakemonaghan90 (Nov 30, 2008)

I dont think it will take a huge amount of power to suspend the sand...

my only worry is that, obviously, too little power means no suspension. However, on thr flip side, too much power means either sand in the display tank (worst case), or just a little two much, and maybe the sand doesnt stay close enough to support bacteria and self clean...

I feel like there are a lot of things that could make this go wrong. Ill try to work it out right after i finish my LED lighting project. Ill post pics.

As for the marble comment, in my research i read that two types of sand are usually used...a really fine one and a larger one.

The marble sound like a good idea.

Thanks for all the comments


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## Jakemonaghan90 (Nov 30, 2008)

Actually, judging by the fbf made by Pentair aquatics, the most power necessary is 50 gph per pound of sand...less power for more sand.

I might try that.


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## mikmaze (Feb 6, 2006)

thought about getting one of these, would love to tie it tot he output from my sump and the fx5 and then back to the tank.


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## Jakemonaghan90 (Nov 30, 2008)

I was thinking about making a minisump for mine.

The water would travel out the tank, into a plastic tub. The tub will be split in half somehow. The one side will be full of sponge for mechanical filtration, the other side will have the heater, and powerhead that pushes the water through the fbf, and back up into the tank.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Hey Jake..just remembered..the site I saw marbles used also had a guy who made a whole filter out of, honest to God, old mouth wash bottles. I trired to find it again, but kept getting lost. Could have sworn it was some some crazy Aussie site.
On the other tower filter, I ment to say the bottom could un-screw..
If you find the mouth wash site, post the link, please.
Good luck to ya.


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## Jakemonaghan90 (Nov 30, 2008)

Hey Kaiser,

I found the page you were talking about on aquaticpredators.com. I can't cut and paste the link because Im using an iPhone...will post link later.

Sweet idea. I reccomend reading that thread, pretty good info on the fbf.

The guy used pool filter sand and emphasized the need for a check valve on one of the hoses to prevent backpressure... I forget already.

Google mouthwash bottle filter aquarium, that's how I found it.

Merry Christmas all...


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Ho Ho Ho..Merry Christmas one and All
Thought I would tag the link you and I found
http://aquaticpredators.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31152
for any others who might be interested..man, the more I roll this kind of filter around in my head...well, lets just say I have been looking at various containers in a different light.
Thanx, have a Merry and a Happy, one and all


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## phill (Jan 29, 2004)

KaiserSousay said:


> Ho Ho Ho..Merry Christmas one and All
> Thought I would tag the link you and I found
> http://aquaticpredators.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31152
> for any others who might be interested..man, the more I roll this kind of filter around in my head...well, lets just say I have been looking at various containers in a different light.
> Thanx, have a Merry and a Happy, one and all


No way I would trust that mouthwash bottle setup, especially with the extension cord sitting right beside it 

Using a clear container is a good idea, but I would use something that's guaranteed to be water-tight forever. The plumbing set-up in your link is definitely done the proper way, with a one way valve at one end, but with the addition of some sort of flow control valve at the other to get optimum suspension of the sand particles (high enough to maximize surface area but not too high so that sand is blowing back into the tank).

Check out this fellow members twin FBF setup. This is done properly.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n69/ ... G_4566.jpg

Thread link below, page 13 has the FBF pic
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... &start=180


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## Jakemonaghan90 (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm not so sure I would trust his setup, but I Learned a lot from it.

Now that I have some of the finer details worked out, anybody have any experience tying one of these into a sump?


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## duaneS (Aug 31, 2006)

My DIY unit spills into a barrel sump, it is only @4' high, 








and an 8" diameter, and uses @ 5lbs of aragonite sand. 
It is easy to overpower and spill sand (the aragonite is very light), but using a PVC valve was my solution, along with other outflows to the tank. 
I originally had it pressurized (sealed on top) but found this unneeded. Much easier to work with in case of a power outage with an open top. The water level remains @ 4" below the top.
I also find a check valve to be needed in case of a power outage, the sand is not sucked back toward the pump and lodged in that pipe.








just in case of a pump surge, I use filter socks on the outflow, this captures and errant sand.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Hey DuaneS..where did you get the clear tube??? Looks large, 3-4"??
Have to assume you are tapping into main sump pump for water source.
Your bbl. sump looks"plumbing intensive"  
Cool idea, never thought of using a bbl. :thumb:


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## duaneS (Aug 31, 2006)

It was very easy to build, and not terribly expensive (less than $80) for its size. I bought 8"diameter clear PVC from a local pipe distributor, at around $12 per ft. about 10 years ago. Used an 8" PVC cap, valves and smaller PVC from a chain hardware store. The plans came from the magazine FAMA, sorry can't recall the issue, and were slightly modified. 
The main pump is a Mag drive 2400 and is located in the barrel and feeds 4 tanks (2 X 100, a 60 and a 40 gal). 
You could probably use white PVC for the column and look down from the top to see if it was working, but I thought the extra expense was worth piece of mind.


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## Jakemonaghan90 (Nov 30, 2008)

A store in my area sells clear tubing like that by the foot. Ill certainly invest in that, I feel that it will be well worth the money .

My plans are much more simple than that...


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## duaneS (Aug 31, 2006)

One warning, if you use PVC parts, make sure the clear tube is also truly clear PVC, if not, the PVC glue won't bond.


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## Jakemonaghan90 (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up. Another Question...

I see that you use a mag pump. I also plan on using a mag, more specifically a mag 7. Are you familiar with the sponge filters on them?

I ask because I plan on having just sponge filtration and the fbf. I was thinking that i might just run the water from the tank, to a plastic stoarge tub. From there, the mag7 will be submerged, and direct the water into the fbf. I was thinking of setting something up similar to

http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... sible+pump

However, i see that the mag 7 has a sponge prefilter. Would this be sufficient for me to not need more mechanical filtration?

Thanks


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## duaneS (Aug 31, 2006)

I do not use the Mag sponge filters attached to the pump in my tanks because I'd need to clean them almost daily. If I don't rinse them daily, the flow is reduced and the FIB flow is compromised/ becomes too weak to keep the sand fluidized.
I do throw the sponges in the sump under the water flow to aid in biological filtration though.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Just curious, what type( large grained, fine grained)sand would one use. Just washed,seived out some sand and have some very fine grained sand left over.
Thanx


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