# New to African cichlids, would appreciate some help....



## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

Hi,I just started a 20g tank. I was wondering how many and what kinds of African cichlids I can keep. I'm starting with a 20g to get more comfortable with them, then plan on setting up a 75g eventually. Any help would be great. Thanks.


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## QHgal (May 18, 2006)

No cichlids can be in a 20 gal tank long term. They get too big and too territorial . You might be able to get away with it if they are juvies, and your planning on upgrading to a 75 in the very near future...


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Check out the 20 gallon cookie cutters. That'll get you started and maybe give you an idea of what you might be interested in keeping.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> No cichlids can be in a 20 gal tank long term


I beg to differ as there are plenty of smaller cichlids that'll do just fine long term.


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

We just setup a 20 gallon long for a few shellies and juli.transcriptus.

I use my 20 tall for a growout tank.


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks, what about a 40 gallon breeder to start out?


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## Glaneon (Sep 27, 2010)

40 breeder is really nice. A little tougher on filtration unless you use a canister (intake and output separated).

You could probably treat it like a 75 since it's 4' long.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

A regular 40 is 48x13, 40 breeder is 36x18.
48x13 would be closer to a 55gallon.


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

What types of fish do you think I can have in the 40 breeder? like I said before, after I got more comfortable with them then I was going to upgrade to a bigger tank. I was looking at african cichlids. thanks.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There are a lot of African cichlids. Malawi would be pretty limited in a 36" tank. A single species of dwarf mbuna, something like Pseudotropheus saulosi would work. Tanganyikans you could do two pairs, say a pair of calvus and a colony of shellies. Or a colony of brichardi. Victorians a single species would work too, for example Ruby Greens or Christmas Fulu.


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

thanks. I'll have to take a look at them.


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

Also, what kind of inverts. can I keep? Thanks, again.. Also can anyone recommend a good book. I have 2 of them, don't think they're the greatest on info, etc. Thanks.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Inverts will be better off in a separate tank from Rift Lake cichlids. Maybe some other Africans are OK with inverts.


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## AZcichlidfreak (Nov 16, 2010)

As far as good books go check out http://cichlidpress.com
Malawi cichlids in their natural habitat 4th Edition by Ad Konings
Tanganyika cichlids in their natural habitat by Ad Konings
Both are excellent books and sources of information. Alittle pricey but well worth it!


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks for all the info. I'll check those books out.


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

It's difficult to keep many types of africans in a tank less than 4' for the long term, but you can buy 1-2" juveniles and grow them for awhile before you get a bigger tank. They are far cheaper bought this size, so you can afford to buy a group or two of what you really like. You'll then have a breeder/hospital/quarantine all set up!

I recently tore down a 44 corner tank (basically 2' cube with a corner lopped off) that had about 15 male mbuna in it, but I started with nearly double the fish 4 years ago and the females/sub males had to gradually be removed as they got beat up. If I had known better, I would have never put the females and duplicate males in there.

I've been all over these forums lately, and it seems that there are two setups that work: either all males, one of each species, or a few groups of 1 male per several females of different genera. The first option makes for a very colorful and impressive tank, the other allows you to observe the breeding behavior and possibly end up with free fish!


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks for the great info. Was gonna take a look at the local fish store today. See what they have for choices? Thinking of probably going with one of each species,as brinkles said as a option. Thanks again for all the help. Lol, only problem is there's so many choices......


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Just be ready with the 48" tank within 3 months...they grow fast.

One of each (all male) for a 48" tank figure 8-10 fish. Choose fish that mature at 6" or less and go with a theme of either haps and peacocks or mbuna since mixing is more risky.


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

These are the ones I was looking at:

Zebra Haplochromis
ButterflyÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
ButtikoferiÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Ice BlueÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
KribensisÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Sm. JewelÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 
Albino Zebra Red Fin Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Pearly LamprologusÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 
Sunshine PeacockÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Red EmpressÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 
RustyÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 
Electric Blue HapÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Electric YellowÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Zebra HaplochromisÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Tropheus Moorii 
Pseudo CobaltÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â

Will any of these work well together


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

Also how many can I keep in a 40breeder. Eventually I will be upgrading to a 75 gallon. Thanks


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

These are the haps/peacocks. Well I left out the empress because they get too large. The fish below would work together well. You would only keep them in a 40 breeder while they were juveniles.

Zebra Haplochromis 
Sunshine PeacockÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ 
Electric Blue HapÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹

You may want to shop online for more variety.


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## plsm (Feb 20, 2011)

You could also have some kribs (pelvicachromis pulcher) in your 20 gallon tank. A pair would be fine, you could also add some dither fish like danios, tetras, barbs and other fast swimming fish.

I currently have a pair of kribensis in my 15 gallon tank.


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

I've kept and bred kribbies, they're very easy. They'll look much better after they've been in a planted tank for awhile, never look great in the store. They're not aggresive, don't mix with aggressive africans! Keep them with small fish, and a small tank is ok forever.

If you want an all male tank, you'll be doing some guessing putting juveniles in the 20 because they're difficult to sex when small. You'll end up returning females to the store or getting them killed. I'd get maybe 4-5, pick the most aggressive one and that will likely be a male. If you put adults in the 20, they'll be all over each other.

Mbuna are generally smaller - but meaner!


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

Can these stay in the same tank. I bought a 125gallon tank. 
ButterflyÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Ice BlueÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
KribensisÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Sm. JewelÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 
Albino Zebra Red Fin Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Pearly LamprologusÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 
Sunshine PeacockÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
RustyÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 
Electric Blue HaplochromisÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â Ã¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Electric YellowÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Zebra HaplochromisÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Pseudo CobaltÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Thanks for all the help


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would say no. These are mbuna from Lake Malawi. Also you have three metriaclima species.
Metriaclima greshakei? Ice BlueÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Metriaclima greshakei? Albino Zebra Red Fin Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Iodotropheus sprengerae. RustyÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 
Labidochromis caeruleus. Electric YellowÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â 
Metriaclima callainos? Pseudo CobaltÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã‚Â

These are haps/peacocks and not usually aggressive enough to be mixed with mbuna.
Sunshine PeacockÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ 
Electric Blue HaplochromisÃ¢â‚¬â€¹ Ã¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹

This fish is from Lake Tanganyika:
Pearly LamprologusÃ¢â‚¬â€¹. Better in a Tanganyika tank.

These fish are from other bodies of water in Africa:
KribensisÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹. Don't know compatibility with mbuna. 
Sm. JewelÃ¢â‚¬â€¹Ã¢â‚¬â€¹. Rep for killing others in tank when spawning.
Zebra HaplochromisÃ¢â‚¬â€¹. You can mix with mbuna.

Do you want an all-male tank or are you going to do mixed genders?


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

I would like a mixed gender tank, wow thanks for the info. I'm new to cichlids as you can see.... Lol.  From the list of fish I have, that you've broken down into groups for me, which ones will be the best and most colorful? Thanks for all the help DJ.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

From that list I would do these:
1m:4f Labidochromis caeruleus (electric yellow)
1m:4f Metriaclima callainos (cobalt)
1m:4f Astatotilapia latifasciata (Haplochromis zebra)


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks DJ. Will get them tomorrow. Also what types of inverts can I keep with them? Ex. Shrimps,snails, etc. Thanks again,really appreciate everything.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

DJRansome said:


> Inverts will be better off in a separate tank from Rift Lake cichlids. Maybe some other Africans are OK with inverts.


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

I have assassin snails and they do fine. Shrimp will become a snack.


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks. I saw my lfs has electric blue lobsters, will they be ok?


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

Lobsters eat fish, fish eat lobsters - when they "molt", or shed their shell. My mbuna eat whatever snails I have ever put with them, others seem to have better luck. I have had plenty of snails in other tanks, there's some in my fry tank now. Sometimes I catch a few and drop them in, all I ever see is empty shells.

Google "synodontis" catfish, they make a good companion for africans and will tolerate their water well.

You have a 20 gal breeder now! If you get some groups, once the 125 is cycled and everything is as it should be, you'll be filling it with fry!

Tonight I'm attempting to catch m. exasperatus to strip eggs from for the fry tank. It looks like she is going to keep them, I don't know how she knows it's her I'm after!


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks brinkles. I'll Take a look at that cat fish. Do certain plecos do better than others with African cichlids? Lol. Good luck with the eggs.


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

I've kept common plecos, they seem to less prone to hiding and more aggressive. I've had rubber lip and bristlenose, they seem to be better at getting off the algae, but hide more. This time around, I'm not putting plecos in because I want to let the algae grow a little on the rocks, driftwood and back glass - and the mbuna love it! They're constantly picking at it, so I recommend no plecos with mbuna.

Many people keeping these fish are trying to duplicate the natural environment that these animals would have lived in, at least to some degree. At the least, the water conditions you provide will be appropriate for the animals.

BTW, I've made and continue to make plenty of mistakes! These fish are really beautiful, and you can pack a number of them into a tank, but it takes careful planning - more than I am sometimes capable of. You will also need to "cycle" your filters before adding many fish, or I guarantee an epic plague!


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## fishnick2401 (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks for the advice brinkles. Lol so much to learn about these fish.


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