# DIY Sump/ Overflow Questions



## jbacker7 (Jul 16, 2008)

Ok so here's the deal.. I'm sick of all the tubing and heater in my tank (55 gal). I want a sump. But my stand is very limited on space something about the size of a 10 gallon is all I will be able to fit.. perhaps two 10's if needed. My question is with a 700 gph pump will a 10 gallon tank be big enough? I plan on using filter floss and bioballs.. maybe some pot scrubbers, but like I said I may junk the 10 gal idea if I can find a thin rubbermaid. But as far as my plumbing goes what size of pipe do you guys think I should use? 1"..1 1/2"??

Thanks.


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## Murky (Jun 13, 2007)

while I think it is possible to use a 10gal tank as the sump, when you cut power to the pump you will have very little margin in your sump for the water returning from the pipes and the water level in the tank that may lower slightly depending on your overflow, and It may tend to be hard to adjust so that the water doesn't spill over the 10gal when you stop power to the system. On the drain you could use 1-Â¼" and the return doesn't need to be large at all like 3/4" would be fine.

you will want to put a valve somewhere on the return pipe for a 700gph, that is what I'm using right now and I have to dial it back slightly or my siphons can't handle it


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

I had space problems, stand was never designed for any kind of sump. After reading about the various sumps, did some measuring and off to the store to see what would fit. This was all I could get in my cabinet...








Not even 10gal, but it fit. I used shoe boxes as media holders..








I tried a few different overflows. First was a PVC "pretzel" design I found in 3/4 pipe. The second was a more traditional skimmer HOB overflow with 1 1/4 pipe. Both did OK as to moving water to the sump, but noise, constant gurgle, would never get down to a level my wife could live with.
This is the pump I used. I more than handeled the load with some valves for adjusting flows
http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_28&products_id=1075
Anyway, the sump itself, being so small was a constant chore keeping the flow rates balanced. Doing a simple water change turned into long period of adjusting after the filters restart.
I`m not saying don`t, but if you set up a small sump, be ready for some headaches you would not have with a larger one.
I finally got tired of the noise(both the gurgle and from my wife)and all the adjusting and went with a pair of canisters.
Taking care of the tank is 100% eaiser now, but I do miss the benifits of the sump..cleaning, adding extras(UV,phosphate remover, etc.)
HTH


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

I had a very similar experience to Kaiser. I went through the whole sump exercise, and just ended up tearing it down.

But I don't really feel any regrets. I have an FX5 on my 125, which uses nonstandard 1" tubing. So I went out and bough an XP2 which has 5/8" tubing. Then I bought a Hydor 300 in line heater, so I could remove the heaters in the tank. And 5/8" is also the perfect size tubing for a UV sterilizer in the near future. Now, all I have in my tank are the filter intake and outtake. In a sump you would still have some form of that, so I am not sure where a sump is all that much better in terms of those examples (yes, I know for other examples there can be benefits).

My next step is to make my own filter intake and outlet out of black PVC, so it will be even more inconspicuous.

So overall I am happy with not having a sump.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> But I don't really feel any regrets.


Anything that doesn`t kill you makes you stronger  
All of these DIY projects give you something back, seems you learn the most from the ones that do not work out.
I now get x-mas cards from the clerks in the pipe sections of both lowes and home depot :lol:


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## jbacker7 (Jul 16, 2008)

Good news! I went down to the hardware store today and started measurin on some trash cans and storage tubs and found a trashcan i think will work!  And its 20 gallons! I think I can make this work..but the price of PVC seemed ridiculous. I'm talkin 5 bucks for a 90 degree bend. This cant be right?


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## fishEH (Sep 15, 2008)

$5.00!!!  That is not right. Not for the size you'd be looking to get. All fittings for what you need should be under $1 each, with the exception of a ball valve.


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## jbacker7 (Jul 16, 2008)

That's what I was thinking! But yes I'll keep looking around and pricing. I'm thinking for the syphon I should use 1 1/2" and for the return I might use 3/4. I want some good pressure coming from the return so I can make a spray bar if I want to. How's that sound?


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> 5 bucks for a 90


I can see busloads of pvc salesmen heading your way  


> under $1 each


Thats about right.
Your pipe size choices sound ok, you could probably do it with 1/2" return for your spray bar, more holes=more flow.
HTH


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## jbacker7 (Jul 16, 2008)

The whole return piping being 1/2" or just the spray bar?


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

jbacker7 said:


> The whole return piping being 1/2" or just the spray bar?


I did the whole return in 1/2" pvc..if I do another I would use cpvc, fittings and pipe are way cheaper than regular pvc. CPVC also has less wall thickness, so overall it does not show in the tank as much.
That is what I made my intake tubes and spray bars out of for my canisters.
HTH


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## boredatwork (Sep 14, 2007)

Unless black would hide better in your tank. You can buy black PVC online. No need to paint or dye it.


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## jbacker7 (Jul 16, 2008)

Good thinkin on the CPVC. I've also been considering doing it like a canister filter and making the overflow and return from PVC and then just running hoses to the sump. What do you think?

Also, I used the head loss calcultator at http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.ph ... ntrances=1

And it told me the setup I wanted using a Mag7 pump would do about 375gph. This can't be right. Can it?


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> 375gph.


Probably pretty close..that said..for your tank, that is not a bad filtration rate. Using filter floss and scrubbies it would provide all the filter you would need.
Eheim canisters all have comparitivly low flow rates, but do an xclnt job at filtering, not just massive water movement.
There are GPH guys that would put fx5`s on a gold fish bowl that will disagree with that flow rate being enough. :lol: 
Good for you :thumb: Looking at the REEF sites, they are just goldmines of good info.
HTH


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

Your calculations on the headloss do seem excessive at first, but checking the specs on a Mag 7 it's 700gph but drops to 450 with a 4' head... so add in the restrictions for the 90 degree turns in the pipe elbows (less that $1 each!) the 375gph is probably pretty accurate.
Now I think you really don't need 1 1/2" returns... thats the size I used on my 180g tank with a 1265gph pump I figured about 900gph actual and used 3/4" returns.
Like *KaiserSausay* said 1/2" would be fine for the return and you could probably drop down to 1" drain for your 55g tank.



> For a drain overflow (not siphon), the flow for various diameters of pipe is:
> .75" = 325gph
> 1" = 600gph
> 1.25"= 900gph
> ...


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## mithesaint (Oct 31, 2006)

jbacker7 said:


> And it told me the setup I wanted using a Mag7 pump would do about 375gph. This can't be right. Can it?


Sounds good to me. You don't need 10x GPH when you have a sump. Sumps are much more efficient at bio filtration than HOB or Canister filters could dream of. Mechanical filtration is another story. Make sure you have enough of that in the sump.

Might need to add a powerhead to keep things stirred up in the tank too.

Before you add the sump, two questions. Do you mind the sound of running water? Where is the tank? If you're used to silence from the aquarium, you'll be surprised by the amount of noise from the sump. If the aquarium is in a location where someone else will be annoyed, I'd reconsider. You're NOT going to get a non-drilled tank to be silent. If I ever move my 135 out of my man cave and into domestic space, I'm buying canisters. If you don't mind the noise, go for it. Good luck.


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## jbacker7 (Jul 16, 2008)

Ok so I went down to the hardware store to do a little pricing and did a little more calculating and I decided that I will make my return and syphon from PVC but I will run hoses to the sump. It's cheaper and more efficient. My new calculations with the head loss calculator are 484 gph with the hose at 1.25". I like this idea and if I want more pressure for a spray bar I can funnel it down to .75" PVC and I'll be golden. Hows that sound?


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> more pressure for a spray bar


The size of the holes you drill in your spraybar, and amount of holes, will determine your flow more than pipe size.
When your done..let`s see some pics.


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