# Cichlid Spawn??



## Aquariumman (Sep 27, 2009)

Hello, 
:-? I'm thinking of getting into Dwarf Cichlid keeping. However I understand Cichlids spawn quite frequently? I'm not really interested in raising or selling Cichlids, in which case I'm not sure what to do with any spawn that may come about? I'm just wondering what other Cichlid keepers do in this case? Appeciate your advice. :fish:


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I've got plenty of other larger fish that enjoy the snacks... I'm also in a cichlid club where I can easily get rid of fry.

Welcome to the C-F


----------



## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

catch 22: cichlids are at their best (color and attitude) when breeding. and pairing is a big indicator to successful tank/fish management. on the other hand: forced cannibalism, simply because the brood has no escape prior to their parents next spawn, is an unnatural (and IMHO, slightly disturbing) event best prevented by any caring keeper. my answer, is to remove the spawn while they are at wriggler stage via siphon. this way, i do not disturb the tank/nesting sites excessively by attempting to remove sticky eggs, or by net chasing free swimming fry. i consider intervention at this stage the simplest, most stress less option for both me and my fish. HTH.


----------



## toddnbecka (Oct 23, 2004)

Simply keeping a pair in a "community" tank with tetras and small catfish will most likely eliminate most or all fry. One or two may survive if there's sufficient cover, but the other fish will take care of whatever fry they come across. The parents will only guard the fry for a couple weeks at most, then they'll be on their own.


----------



## Aquariumman (Sep 27, 2009)

Thank you all for your suggestions. My tank is only a 29 gal so lots of large fish are out of the question. I've been keeping 3 to 4 fancy goldfish, Fantails to be precise. Although very pretty, I found them to be both difficult to keep and boring to watch. My Stepson has 7 or 8 cichlids and suggested I give them a try. After watching his in his 50 gal tank, I like their personalities much better. But since my tank is only 29 I'm thinking dwarfs would be best as I would like to keep at least 6 or 8, 2 males and the rest female.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *Aquariumman*,

Which dwarf cichlids are you thinking of? African shell dwellers or west african riverine dwarf cichlids? or South American dwarf cichlids such as dwarf acaras or apistogramma?


----------



## Aquariumman (Sep 27, 2009)

G'day DeadFishFloating

:-? :fish: Probably the South American, but I need to research it further. :fish:


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hey *Aquariumman*,

I can't think of any adult dwarf South American cichlids where you'll be able to stock 6 to 8 in a 29 gallon tank. You may be able to stock a trio or quad of 1 male and 2 or 3 females of an apistogramma species.

However, this doesn't mean that's it for stocking the tank. You can include a small school of smaller tetras, or similar dither fish such as pencilfish. Most tetras and some pencilfish are very good fry predators. You could also add a gang of dwarf corydoras or one of the smaller regular species of corydoras.

But before we discuss possible stocking options, we really should find out about your local water properties, it's PH, GH and KH. Also how do you want to set your tank up, i.e aquascape?

You may find your water properties and how you envisage your tank setup may suite African dwarf cichlids.

Here is a good site to check out, Dwarfcichlid.com.


----------



## Aquariumman (Sep 27, 2009)

Thank you DeadFishFloating 

 Well I may have to only do with 4, but I want decent size fish, nothing too tiny. That was one of the things I did like about the Fantails as they got plump & good size, (4-6 inches), but not huge (8 inches or more). 
I had a 10 gal tank when I was a young kid (40+ years ago) keeping tropical fish (Neon Tetras for one). I thought this 29 gal was a pretty good size upgrade from that when I bought it a year ago. Now wish I'd gone even bigger like a 60, 75 or even 100 gal. But now I've got too much money invested in this outfit to just chuck it for another after only a year. I know I could never recover much of my money if I tried selling it, expecially in this economic environment. And no "wife's blessing" for another, bigger one as well. Not sure I want to keep up with more than one tank anyway. Besides... it goes with our "decor", :lol: 
I had an Aquaclear 50 "hangon" filter on this tank originally and it did ok for several months for my Fantails. But then it's biological growth just crashed one day and wiped out my fish before I realized what happened. I cleaned it, replaced the media, recycled it again and restocked. A few months later it did it again, despite my best efforts and attention. I've always done partial water changes, every week or two as needed, and used tap water with a conditioner every change. Nothing else. 
So, this last time it crashed I stripped down the tank and gave it and everything a thorough cleaning. I also chucked the Aquaclear filter and purchased a "Fluval 250" canister filter. I have been "fishless" cycling it for the past 3 weeks now and it is nearly cycled. With about 4 times the sponge and biological media area, I think this filter will be a very big improvement and a lot less hassle.
The water here is alkaline. We have a lot of limestone. In fact, we're noted for it. Likewise it is also fairly hard. Alkalinity (KH) runs about 14 to 16 dH or 230 -250 ppm, Hardness (GH) also runs about 14 to 15 dH or 230-240 ppm. The PH runs about 7.6 to 8.0. I've been told it is pretty "cichlid friendly".
My current, "out of the tap" water chemistry is; Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0.25, PH 7.8. 
My new filter is currently taking 4.0+ Ammonia down to 0 in 24 hours. Nitrite level has dropped from a peak of 2.0 several days ago to a concurrent past 4 day level of .50 to .25, and Nitrate is currently running about 5.0. PH is 8.0. Of course, once fully cycled I'll do a water change to bring down the Nitrate and check it again for a couple of days before adding fish.
I appreciate your interest and help DeadFishFloating, and am looking forward to your further correspondence.


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

> The PH runs about 7.6 to 8.0. I've been told it is pretty "cichlid friendly".


I like that, "cichlid friendly". Most water is cichlid friendly, you just have to find the right cichlids it's friendly with. Your water would better suite Central Americans or some African cichlids. Both areas I am not familiar with. There may be a couple of smaller CA cichlids that may do well in a 29 gallon tank.

Each cichlid keeper has thier own idea of what constitutes suitable stocking options for various sized tanks. I like to give my fish room to move in thier tanks, and room to escape unwanted attention from tank mates. I tend to stock light, and stock small as I have small tanks. With that in mind, I wouldn't stock any cichlids that grow over 4 inches in a 29 gallon tank.

Cichlids also have thier own personalities. I have a pair of wild cuaght Laeatacara dorsigera (TL 3 inches) in a 36"x18"x18" 50 gallon tank that will not tolerate any other cichlids in thier tank. They will kill any other cichlids I try and add to thier tank. I have a pair of tank bred laetacara curviceps in my other 50 gallon tank, and they are very mellow. Currently my four apistogramma are sharing the 50g tank as I have a dozen or so juvenile dorsigera growing out in the 29 gallon tank. There is very little aggression between the two species. Right now the curviceps are guarding wigglers and a female agassizii is guarding eggs, and the biggest problem are the Lemon tetras swimming to close to either spawning site.


----------



## Aquariumman (Sep 27, 2009)

I was told cichlids preferred hard water and high PH. After some more research, it seems I was told wrong.  It seems most cichlids do better/prefer soft water and a more acidic PH.  
My tank is 12.5 " wide x 18.5" high x 30" long, really not too much different from your 50 gal dimensions.
:? That's why I am looking at dwarfs only, a 2-4 inch fish size is what I was looking to keep. Probably tank raised as I just figure they will likely be the less aggressive over wild caught. :thumb: 
I'm thinking the dwarf species African Kribensis ( Pelvicachromis pulcher) or Egyptian mouthbrooder (Pseudocrenilabrus multicolor). I need to research some more though. 
I have my tank planted with several artificial plants and have stacked some nice flat rocks in it in such a manner as to provide lots of cubbyholes and hiding places. :fish:


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Well most African lake cichlids prefer water with a high PH, usually over 8. Most, but not all South American cichlids, and the West African riverine cichlids come from waters that have a lot of driftwood and decaying leaves in the water. The driftwood and leaves leach acidic tannins into the water, hence why the water has a low PH value.

Have you had a look at the profile for Pelvicachromis taeniatus? Try and find some locally bred cichlids, as they will be adapted to your local water conditions. If you can, find out about your local Cichlid or Aquarium club. For starters, it's much, much cheaper buying from club members than from LFS. They will also have a greater range of cichlids than you will ever see in a LFS. Clubs will often have auctions as well, where cichlids will be much cheaper again. Here you go, Indiana Cichlid clubs. Club members will aslo be able to help you out with all aspects of the hobby.

I highly recommend you join your local club forums. Most forums will have a buy/sell/trade section. Oh and there is an open to the public Fish auction in Indy on the 15th of November. I hope your wife understands there is no cure for MTS. It might be worth while involving your stepson some as well, as this will help keep the wife from throughing frying pans at you.


----------



## Aquariumman (Sep 27, 2009)

Hey... thanks so much DeadFishFloating!

I appreciate the link to local clubs. The ICC one is pretty new. Just started last year and most of the forum threads are from the pres. But you know, you gotta start somewhere. 

Actually, I had planned on purchasing my fish locally, but hadn't thought of getting them from clubs. Probably better quality/healthy fish too. That's a great idea. Thank you.

I will definitely check out the Pelvicachromis taeniatus too.

Ohhh...I think I could manage to eventually trade this 29 out for a bigger one. I'll just have to bribe my wife with a little jewelry or something, :lol:

Yeah I'll relay all this to my Stepson. I'm sure he'd be interested as well. He asked to go with me when I went to buy my fish. He bought his 50 gal about 3-4 months ago and so far his cichlids are doing great.

I'll have to wait a little longer though. I missed an ammonia treatment in my tank, day before yesterday, due to my son's twins being born and a trip to the hospital. When I checked it last night the ammonia was 0 of course, but the nitrite had risen to 1.0. :-? Seems it takes much longer to culture the nitrite digesting bacteria then the ammonia.  But I won't put any fish in until it's 0 & 0 for at least 2 or 3 days running. :thumb:

Thanks again for all your help and advice. You have a great weekend DeadFishFloating. Happy fish keeping!


----------



## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Hey congratulations to your son and his new fry. :thumb:

Just one last bit of advice. Never, ever trade in a tank. 29 gallon tanks make good quarentine/hospital/fry tanks. Plus, if (when) you upgrade to a 75 gallon plus tank, you buy a high stand, not a cabinet, that way the 29 gallon sits under the new tank and takes up less space.


----------



## Aquariumman (Sep 27, 2009)

Thanks for the congrats. That makes us 7 grandkids now. The twins are doing great and came home Friday. 

That's an idea about keeping the 29 and placing it under the new tank. I'll keep it under consideration. :thumb:

I was surprised to find when I ran my water tests, right after writting that last post, that both the Ammonia and Nitrite were at 0. I gave it another dose of Ammonia and tested again last night and it was again 0 and 0. :thumb:

So yesterday I cleaned the tank, did a water change and redosed it with Ammonia again. Might have to recover a bit after doing the water change. But if the readings stay at 0 for the next day or two now, cycling is complete and it's ready for fish. :fish:


----------

