# She's Holding ... Time to figure out what she is!



## adk (Dec 11, 2008)

A fish that I thought was a male is apparently holding. Time to figure out what she is! I'd also appreciate help with another unidentified fish. Sorry about the poor quality.

Number one is holding. I'm thinking she's some sort of zebra.



Number two. I'm thinking a venustus perhaps?



Also, an unrelated newbie question. Is it possible for her to be holding unfertilized eggs? The only other fish in the tank besides these two are mainganos, and I find it hard to believe that two fish that are this dissimilar would mate.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

one is red zebra, metriaclima estherae
two is a Nibochromis livingstonii!!!! Wished you lived closer I can't find them here :drooling:


----------



## adk (Dec 11, 2008)

Wow, livingstonii was my first guess until I found out they were hard to find. My LFS doesn't exactly have a great cichlid selection. It's about 3" long at the moment - is it possible that it's a male that hasn't colored up yet?


----------



## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

Could be, my male just colored after almost a year, he just hit 6 1/2 inches.


----------



## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

only a couple months ago
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd84 ... 006-37.jpg
a couple of weeks later
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd84 ... 009-30.jpg

he never showed any of those colors before though. 
vent pics
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd84 ... /pappy.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd84 ... pappy2.jpg


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Any mouthbrooder will breed with any other mouthbrooder if you don't have ample males and females of each species. So, it is possible that the eggs are fertilized.

If this is the only M. estherae that you have (and she's definitely holding) I wouldn't worry about salvaging the fry. They will be hybrids.


----------



## bma57 (Sep 16, 2007)

bulldogg7 said:


> one is red zebra, metriaclima estherae
> two is a Nibochromis livingstonii!!!! Wished you lived closer I can't find them here :drooling:


It's funny how regional species availability seems to be. I have found my area to be horribly lacking in African cichlid availability and variety overall, but estherae and livingstoni are two of the more easy to find here. I'll bet your LFS's have species I've never even seen live.


----------



## mia_ann (Dec 20, 2008)

cichlidaholic said:


> Any mouthbrooder will breed with any other mouthbrooder if you don't have ample males and females of each species. So, it is possible that the eggs are fertilized.
> 
> If this is the only M. estherae that you have (and she's definitely holding) I wouldn't worry about salvaging the fry. They will be hybrids.


What is the difference between hybrids and other fish?


----------



## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Hybrids are the result of two different species crossbreeding.


----------



## willny1 (Nov 17, 2008)

Yeah, Mutts of the fish world. My LFS sold me 2 of them when I first started with my tank. (they where mislabeled) .I feel jipped and dont go back there anymore.

Now I am armed with knowledge


----------



## saturnine (Apr 23, 2007)

second nimbochromis livigstonni


----------



## mia_ann (Dec 20, 2008)

Are there differences in temperment, etc?


----------



## bma57 (Sep 16, 2007)

mia_ann said:


> Are there differences in temperment, etc?


Temperments are unpredictable. Even if you can say with certainty which species in your tank this fish crossbred with, you can never tell what mix of traits of the two (or more) species the offspring will inherit. As hybrids beget hybrids, watering down the gene pool, it is generally accepted that hybrids should never be distributed.

Most cichlid keepers take the position that you can raise any kind of "mutt" you want in your own tanks in your own home, but allowing them to "go forth and multiply" in the outside world is irresponsible and destructive to the quality of future generations of fish. I have two hybrid fry from my OB Peacock (a hybrid to begin with) growing out right now because my curiosity got the best of me, but I will absolutely not sell/give them to anyone else, nor will I ever keep any fry that could possibly be theirs.


----------



## atp777 (Feb 26, 2007)

I left my hybrid fry in the tank so that they would be eaten. 14 of those buggers survived. They're beautiful, but I would never let them out of my tanks.


----------



## mia_ann (Dec 20, 2008)

I agree that I wouldn't sell them for breeding, but I am very curious as to what results I will get mixing different mouth brooders. Would it be considered inhumane to keep 3 or 4 and leave the rest in the community tank, just to see what they look like? :-?


----------



## Joea (May 25, 2004)

cichlidaholic said:


> Hybrids are the result of two different species crossbreeding.


As well as crossing two fish of the same species but from different collection points; _Aulonocara stuartgranti_ (Ngara) crossed with _Aulonocara stuartgranti_ (Usisya) for example.


----------

