# AC = APISTOGRAMMA CLUB



## fisherman91

_Since we are having topics on bolivians (BRC club) and laetcara addiction. _

I am starting apistogramma club  So all thats have apistos, throw in your pics here. And we can make a long thread about it

I am putting in my Borellis for starters

Female with fry







'

Male


----------



## A b s T r a c T

cool idea i dont have any pics atm but i have these in my collection

-Nannacara Anomala
-Aspisto Agassizi(wild)
-Aspisto Cacatoides
-Aspisto Nijisseni
-Aspisto Panduro
-Rams (GB/G+Altispinosa)
-i dont know if you can call them dwarfs but *** got some Wild Dorsiger too

ill try to get pics but got a crapy camera so thay will be blurry!


----------



## Dutch Dude

A nice initiative!!! I don't have good pics availeble either and the size of the tanks and other inhabitants make it harder to make a good nice pic of my apisto's. I keep a single male A. hoignei (only survivor of a batch of 15 fish suffering bloat) and 13 or so A. hongsloi II. The 75 gallon tank contains Discus and pleco's and 3 male and 2 female hongsloi II with is a crappy male female ratio but becouse of the size it doesn't leas to problems. When I introduced the fish I thought I had 2 male and 3 female but one turned out to be a male after all. The 90 gallon contains 8 hongsloi 2 and equal male female ratio and in addition the single male hongsloi. Ooh boy did I received a poor batch hongsloi from Czech rep. 1 1/2 year ago! I was only able to keep 1 alive despite perfect water qualety and medication with metro. The survivor is a very beautiful fish and hard to imagine that this is a natural color morph unlike the hongsloi II. The males quarel but no problems and no fin nibbing and defenately no fights. The tank contains a lot of driftwood and lots of shelter.


----------



## fisherman91

Yes. I hope many will join this topic.

Apistos are my favourite fish. Very special. And funny to look at

So all in with something about apistos


----------



## madzarembski

I currently have A Cacatoides sharing a 75 with Laetacara sp "buckelkopf and Guinacara. They have successfuly managed to raise a spawn in this environment. They are quite active and hold their own. I will follow this thread for sure


----------



## fisherman91

nice male. Here is my male, the picture is bad. 









And it is new in the tank so its still showing no colouration.


----------



## ktluvsfish

Glad you started an apisto club!!!

I currently have one lone female A. Borrelli (my male died a while back). I have been looking for a new mate for her. I don't have any pics of her though.

I recently added a pair of A. Hongsloi to my 75 gallon. They are tiny (about an inch) right now, but are already showing good color.

Here are the pics (sorry for the bad quality):


----------



## fisherman91

Ap. Agassizi

female defending fry


















Male borelli


----------



## Murky

here's my orange flash this pic was really blurry cause I grabbed my cam quick and shot quick but I know there is a caption that could go with this pic.. like 'oh noes! '










here is the same fish in swim mode


----------



## Fishguy28

Alright now this forum has my attention, well more than it did. I don't really have any pics yet but here's what I currently have:
Double Red Cacatuoides
Barlowi
Panduro
cf. Pulchra Chingarno
Redtail Agassizi


----------



## LJ

Murky, that orange flash is awesome!

Here is my Agassizi

















I want to get him a female at some point.


----------



## ktluvsfish

LJ he is so pretty  How big is he? I was thinking of putting one in my tank. They are lovely fish.


----------



## fisherman91

Fishguy28. You need to get some pictures and show us your nice fish :fish:

Maybe your tanks setup.


----------



## LJ

Thanks ktluvsfish! I'd say he's 2.5"-3". This is my first apisto, and I'm definitely glad I got him.


----------



## Fishguy28

fisherman91 said:


> Fishguy28. You need to get some pictures and show us your nice fish :fish:
> 
> Maybe your tanks setup.


I know, I've been spending alot of my free time on my Biotoecus Opercularis and their fry and I recently lost 7 species of apisto to bacteria carried by a batch of blackworms so unfortunately I don't have any decent pics of some really nice ones.

Lj, you wouldn't happen to know what color form of Agassizi you have would you?


----------



## caliper

fisherman91 - Thanks Buddy - for setting up this club, I think it will certainly will be a success. I am in the process of setting up my tank. a small 40 gallon tank as it is the only room I am allowed at the moment. You see we will probably be moving out in a year or so and when we do the house will be an aquarium.

Anyway as I mentioned I am in the process of starting a tank after being out of the hobby since we moved here, It's been a long time. Anyway I'm waiting for the tank to cycle which may not be long now since my ammonia levels are coming up to nothing and Nitrites already have.

After showing my wife the colors of some of these beauties they will be the primary focus of our tank. :fish:

If anyone has any thoughts as to what I should start off with I'm all ears. As I said the tank is only 40 gallons not big but a decent start. And who knows since my wife is so much into helping me set it up and helping with water changes I may have a 75 gallon before long.

Thanks All


----------



## Fishguy28

Caliper, Apistogramma Agassizi, Cacatuoides or Borellii are excellent starter Apistos, check out theamazonbasement.com and amazontropicals.com both are hobbyist/breeders with great fish and the are located in PA so pick up is an option.


----------



## LJ

Fishguy28 said:


> Lj, you wouldn't happen to know what color form of Agassizi you have would you?


Sorry Fishguy28, I do not know.


----------



## fisherman91

Borelli-male










Agassizii male + female



















Borelli-female with fry.


----------



## caliper

Fishguy28 said:


> Caliper, Apistogramma Agassizi, Cacatuoides or Borellii are excellent starter Apistos, check out theamazonbasement.com and amazontropicals.com both are hobbyist/breeders with great fish and the are located in PA so pick up is an option.


Fishguy, Thanks for the information on the type of fish to start off with. I am waiting at this point for my tank to fully cycle and for me to be satisfied with it. At this time the ammonia level are slightly elevated above 0 and Nitrites at 0 for the very first time. Tonight for the first time in 4 weeks I have not changed any water which as I was doing 40% every evening. Now tomorrow if the levels stay the same I was thinking of only changing 20% daily for a couple more weeks. Of course this is all contingent on everthing stayng the same.

So my next question is going to be how many fish do most everyone think I can put into my tank. Its a 40 gallon Bowfront which is 30 inches long , 20 inches high and 15 inches wide at the bow point.

There are two fish in the tank now a Dwarf Gourami and a Black Phantom Tetra, and my wife would like 2 Angels so that is where I can start at.

Thank You All again for your help. I love the coloration in these fish.

Cal........


----------



## webgirl74

I had some apistos in a 20 gallon for a while. They were in great health when I bought them, but they did not last very long. Is there a secret to keeping these fish? I would like to try them again, but I'm wary. I have Africans, which I seem to have good results with. I naturally get a high PH out of the tap of 7.8 or so. Is this too high for apistos to do well in? My water quality was good as far as maintenance goes. All readings were normal and temp was kept at 78 with weekly water changes of 20-30%. Any advice you all could give me would be great!


----------



## fisherman91

Webgirl74- Apistos have a short lifetime. They live hard and die fast

PH- should be low I think they like it that way. Also the breeding is controlled by the PH. The eggs wont hatch in to high PH.

What more fish did you have with the apistos?


----------



## webgirl74

Really? How long is the average life span on these guys? The group that I had spent all their time in the bottom third of the tank I'd say. I had some dither fish (small barbs mostly) and an algae eater in the tank with them and they all got along peacefully. Aggression was never an issue. I figured the PH might be the problem. I'm not sure now if the apistos I bought were wild caught or tank raised, but judging by the price, I'd say tank raised.


----------



## fisherman91

I would say that barbs is not good as dither to apistos, they are to "speedy", and are often tend to bite apistos in the tails. maybe you did not saw this but they maybe did?


----------



## Fishguy28

Webgirl, what species of Apisto did you have? Most tank raised fish tolerate a wide range of water conditions. If your main interest is not breeding them then there's really no need to keep them in soft water. Soft water opens up a whole other can of worms with it's own problems to overcome(although it is needed to keep wild fish). Your fish may benifit by adding just enough RO water to bring the Ph into the neutral range. I would also get rid of the Barbs they are aggressive feeders and hyperactive. So the loss of the Apistos could be due to not being able to compete for food and stress.
I almost forgot the lifespan of Apistos can be anywhere from 3 to 5 years. In the wild they seldom live past 1 1/2 years but that is most likely due to enviromental factors like predation.


----------



## webgirl74

I'm not 100% sure, but they looked most similar to macmasteri in the profiles. The barbs were very small and did not hassle the apistos at all. That's what I suspected at first, but there was no aggression and the barbs kept to the top of the tank. Eating was not an issue either. The apistos ate consistently and were not beaten out by the other fish. They just did not thrive and just sort of died one by one with no rhyme or reason.


----------



## Fishguy28

MacMasteri even tank raised may need a bit softer water. I've never been able to keep them alive in tapwater I always had to keep them in neutral to slightly acidic water, they would be an exception to tankraised tolerance. They are also known for aggression toward their own species and need to be kept 1 male to 2 or more females. Before I knew of this I had a pair that constantly fought, the male killed the female but was so worn out that I soon lost him too.


----------



## webgirl74

I had a feeling that the water might be the issue as they were the only ones in the tank that I had issues with. I had one male and 3 females and they were quite a nice little group. Did their own thing quite happily for a while and then just started going downhill. I'll have to keep the PH in mind if I even attempt to keep these guys again. Thanks for the info!


----------



## Fishguy28

You could try Cacatuoides and not have to worry about your water or aggression issues.


----------



## Fishguy28

Wow I must be blind, I just realized that you had a quad in a 20 gallon! That's way too many Apistos and not enough space for territory. I would say there were definite turf wars going on in the tank that maybe you weren't aware of. Which would have resulted in your losses.


----------



## webgirl74

Really? I was told by the cichlid breeder I bought them from that I could keep a small group in a 20 gallon, and he's quite a respected expert in the city. Most people that are serious about cichlids here know this guy and have bought from him. I watch all my fish very carefully for any potential issues and I never saw any aggression or territorial issues. That being said, maybe they were still young and had not established a pecking order yet. So, what would everyone recommend as a minimum size for apistos?


----------



## Fishguy28

It's unfortunate that you were given that info. The adult size for MacMasteri can be up to 3 1/2 inches for males and a bit smaller for females. How big were yours? The only Apistos you could really get away with having a small group of in a 20 gallon is Borellii, anything else a pair unless it's a 20 long then a trio of your choice. I like to provide each female with about 8 or more inches of space for their own territory to do away with any aggression that may occur.


----------



## langosh

Roman 8)


----------



## webgirl74

Funny that langosh just posted that pic, cause that's the apistos I had (not the macmasteri)!! There just wasn't a good enough reference pic in the profiles for me to make a proper ID. Definitely was the hongsloi though. Mine were about 1 1/4".


----------



## Fishguy28

webgirl74 said:


> Funny that langosh just posted that pic, cause that's the apistos I had (not the macmasteri)!! There just wasn't a good enough reference pic in the profiles for me to make a proper ID. Definitely was the hongsloi though. Mine were about 1 1/4".


Hongsloi are in the MacMasteri group and though they were still on the small side the group would soon outgrow a 20 gallon. I kept my Hongsloi group in a 40 gallon to give each fish plenty of space. How did you have the tank decorated?


----------



## Hubbynz

Here is my Caca male...he gets bigger by the day....totally full of character

Prize male aspitogramma caca


----------



## LJ

Nice Hubbynz!


----------



## madzarembski

Hubbynz
That is a nice Cacatoides. :thumb:


----------



## slimbolen99

Here are a few pics of some of my apistos. I currently am keeping:
Apistogramma agassizi "double red"
Apistogramma cf. pertensis
Apistogramma eunotus "orangeschwanz"
Apistogramma gibbiceps
Apistogramma iniridae
Apistogramma panduro
Apistogramma schwarzkinn "black-chin"

Wild Apistogramma eunotus "Orangeshwanz" female guarding fry









Wild APistogramma eunotus "Orangeshwanz" male









Wild Apistogramma schwarzkinn "black chin" male









Wild Apistogramma schwarzkinn "black chin" female guarding fry









F1 Apistogramma inridae









Apistogramma agassizi "double red" female









Apistogramma agassizi "double red" male


----------



## DeadFishFloating

How did I ever miss this thread :-?

As some regulars here already know, I recently was bit by the apisto bug. Currently my collection stands at; 
One pair of A. agassizii ("Netz", Alenquer)
One pair of A. gephyra (yellow) 
One trio of A. bitaeniata (blue)
One pair of A. sp. "Black-chin/Schwarzkinn" 
Two trios of A. erythrura
One pair of A. trifasciata. 
This weekend I'll be adding a pair of A. agassizii "Flamenco" (Rio Tigre) to my collection.

I don't really have many photos of my apistos, as I suck at taking photos with my dodgy little digital camera. Another forum member occasionally comes round, and lucky for me he's much better at taking photos with his flash DSLR.










He took the photo of my male Agassizii ("Netz", Alenquer) which is now my avatar. He also took a couple of photos of my apsito stand when I first started setting it up. The photos are of the middle tier and first four tanks set up. I now have the bottom four tanks setup, but no photos of them yet. Top tier is next to be set up with fry and grow out tanks.


----------



## davdev

Seems to me everyone keeps smaller groups of these fish in fairly small tanks. I was wondering if anyone ever goes large, like 100+ gallons, and how it works out?


----------



## DeadFishFloating

My apistos cost between AUS$30 to AUS$50 each, so it would be rather expensive to buy a colony to start out with. My six A. erythrura cost me AUS$270. And the exchange rate between the Aussie dollar and the USA dollar is pretty close.

One forum member here used to have a large colony of A. cacatouides in a 125 gallon tank.


----------



## dwarfpike

*davdev* - One of our members, *Toby_H*, once had a 125 gallon tank with a cac colony. I believe he said it was one of his all time favorite tanks and might try it again soon.


----------



## davdev

dwarfpike said:


> *davdev* - One of our members, *Toby_H*, once had a 125 gallon tank with a cac colony. I believe he said it was one of his all time favorite tanks and might try it again soon.


Thanks, I will see if I can pics.

The reason I ask, is I like the aquascaping of Central/South American tanks better than African, but I like that you can typically keep more fish in a tank with Africans. I figured a good compromise would be dwarf American's. Though tracking these suckers down aint easy either, so far I have only found a handfull of sellers and even then there are only a few species available.


----------



## DeadFishFloating

Apistogramma Forums - The Dwarf Cichlid Connection


----------



## HiImSean

DeadFish, i just got a group of six A. agassizii "Alenquer" this past weekend, my first apistos. they are very interesting to watch. they are still quite small. im a noob so im not so hot on sexing them except for the largest being a male


----------



## MonteSS

My first attempt at keeping Apistos.

A trio of wild caught A. Melgar. They are doing well in a 26g 24" tank.

Male









Female









Full tank shot with 20 Neon Tetras and 6 Pygmy Cories









...Bill


----------



## DeadFishFloating

Hey *HiImSean*,

I don't think I can help you too much with sexing your juvenile agassizii. All mine were bought as young adults, so easily sexable for the most part.

I have only seen one tank full of juvenile double red agassizii, and it is certainly hard to identify males from females as they all look alike at that stage. Unfortunately A. agassizii "Alenquer" females do not develop the black band along thier ventral fins so this is one identifier ruled out.

You'll just have to waite till they grow up and they become sexable.


----------



## langosh

Apistogramma sp. Rotpunkt








Roman


----------



## middlearth

HiImSean said:


> I just got a group of six A. agassizii "Alenquer" this past weekend, my first apistos. they are very interesting to watch. they are still quite small. im a noob so im not so hot on sexing them except for the largest being a male


Hi Sean- They look nice and healthy... Did you get them locally or order them? I'm in Wa., would love to get my hands on some eventually!
Good luck with them :thumb:


----------



## japes

Currently keeping trios of Wildcaught:

Apistogramma baenschi "Inka 50"
Apistogramma sp. "Black-chin/Schwarzkinn"


----------



## HiImSean

middlearth said:


> HiImSean said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just got a group of six A. agassizii "Alenquer" this past weekend, my first apistos. they are very interesting to watch. they are still quite small. im a noob so im not so hot on sexing them except for the largest being a male
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Sean- They look nice and healthy... Did you get them locally or order them? I'm in Wa., would love to get my hands on some eventually!
> Good luck with them :thumb:
Click to expand...

i got mine from a local breeder. hopefully you'll find some


----------



## Cvurb

Do you guys think that a pair or trio of Cockatoo Apistos would be ok with 2 pairs of Bolivian Rams? The tank is a 55G with lots of Driftwood, and lots of plants.


----------



## bigcatsrus

I have just got into these guys and loving them every second.

Here are a few pics.

Apistogramma cacatuoides (Red)




































My tank is still a work in progress.


----------



## DeadFishFloating

japes said:


> Currently keeping trios of Wildcaught:
> 
> Apistogramma baenschi "Inka 50"
> Apistogramma sp. "Black-chin/Schwarzkinn"


Well where are you photos Ryan?


----------



## japes

Settle down champ!



















A. baenschi "Inka 50" male and their 20x20x20" home, a Rio Huallaga Drainage Biotope, which has been running for about 4 months now.



















Photo from yesterday of my male A. sp. "Black-Chin/Schwarzkinn" and his new 3x18x18" Rio Nanay Drainage Biotope - couple of days old now. Not final scape but will do for at least a week before doing a minor rearrange. Don't want to hassle the little ones.


----------



## Urbana

I'm really enjoying this thread, especially your tanks *japes*!

I am upgrading to a 29g that will include my small school of gold tetras and a clown pleco. I used to keep A. cacatuoides with the tetras and pleco in another tank and I would like to keep them again. How many would be appropriate for that size tank? Should I stick with a pair or get an extra female?


----------



## hapaluku

Hello I am new to this forum.
My fish corner is getting a makeover.
Right now i only have 1 female Linkei.


----------



## Petrochromislover

i am setting up a 10 gallon tank and i want to do apistos, which type of apisto should i do.

Somatter this is an apisto only thread not malawi and other SA cichlids.


----------



## fisherman91

Long time no see!

After 1 year away from the hobby I am know thinking of starting a new tank a 54 Litres with Ap. Panduro.

After seeing Japes tanks I have been inspired again.

Japes please post more pics on the hardscape also maybe from some more angles.


----------



## missusmel90

Heres my apisto's =D










Sorry about the bad photo quality. I think he is an Apistogramma Agassizi Fire Red










And the female.










Apistogramma Cacatuoides Double Red Male










and the female.


----------



## slimbolen99

Has it really been almost 2 years since the last post? Time to get this one up and running again...

New setup of 1m/4f wild Apistogramma schwarzkinn 'black chin'



























Apistogramma biteniata 'rio tigre'









Apistogramma rubrolineata









Apistogramma agassizi 'red' wild


----------

