# 125 Gallon, Compatible Species with M. Auratus



## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

I'm getting back into this for the first time in years.  I'm going to buy a 125 gallon tank this weekend. I want to have melanochromis auratus again, but I definitely remember some issues I had last time. 1. They terrorized every other fish in the tank. 2. I ended up with a bunch of crossbreed fry. I also only had a 46 gallon tank last time. I want to try to do things right this time. I'm wondering how many species I can fit in this tank with the auratus, and also would like to get species that won't breed with them. I plan to get some synos too. THANKS!

Nick


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would do 3 species: 1m:7f of each. Auratus, Kenyi and Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos Maingano. Lots of rocks.


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Auratus are not easy, as you may read that most people have issues with them. If you really like and want to try Auratus, I would try to get a large group like people keep Demasoni, or Tropheus, or Petrochromis and hope they spread the aggression around and keep one male from going psycho. If multiple males do not work... well, you will have to remove them. You can always try and hope you end up with a high number of females. Avoid anything that looks similar to Auratus.

Tankmates, I would pick one Metriclima species Zebras etc group... blue males would be a good contrast, like Cobalts, Greshakei, Chilumba, BB Red Tops. Also you could try Labeotropheus or Tropheops.

Synodontis multipunctatus should be fine, they are much more active in groups.


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

Thank you. I've had them before. I have an affinity for them, but I don't want them to mate with something else and I'd prefer to keep the carnage to a minimum.


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

NickJones623 said:


> Thank you. I've had them before. I have an affinity for them, but I don't want them to mate with something else and I'd prefer to keep the carnage to a minimum.


Synos in theory should take care of any fry. DJ's suggestion would make for a very nice tank, but Auratus and Maingano share similar body shapes, not sure if that can be an issue. Kenyi is definately a great suggestion. Maybe Labeotropheus Trewavasae instead of Maingano?


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

NickJones623 said:


> Thank you. I've had them before. I have an affinity for them, but I don't want them to mate with something else and I'd prefer to keep the carnage to a minimum.


You need to crowd, spreads the aggression around and would allow other males to mate with their proper females. There is no magic formula. A crowded bare tank is the easiest tank of all, but of course people don't really want a tank like that.

You also do not want war, you don't want a reason for different species to challenge each other. You want the fish to hopefully ignore each other. Kenyi are tough, but would that set up huge battles for dominance?


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

It seems there aren't a lot of aquarium shops here in Durham. Last time I had cichlids I was in Tampa, where they were plentiful.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Order online. Better quality, selection and price, even with shipping.


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

Do you have a website you prefer?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You can PM members or they can PM you. And yes, I do have a couple.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

noki said:


> If you really like and want to try Auratus, I would try to get a large group like people keep Demasoni, or Tropheus, or Petrochromis and hope they spread the aggression around and keep one male from going psycho.


I think that is really key; to start with larger numbers of auratus. At least that way there is a chance that aggression will get spread around and not focused so much on particular individuals.

If I were to attempt auratus again (which I probably wouldn't) , I would definitely do things a little different. I believe I under stocked too much to have good chance of success. Any other mbuna I've kept, would have gotten away with it, with out any real problems. I tried to up my numbers with the fry I had, but they got chased ridiculously and killed off by the other auratus at around the 2" size (similar in size to what juvie mbuna are sold at the LFS). IME, really not at all typical of what I experience with other mbuna or any other cichlid for that matter. Fish did not have to be of similar weight class for them to focus on. Lots of incidents with this fish over the years..... sometimes no apparent rhyme or reason why they focus on particular fish! In hindsight, I should have moved the adults to another tank and tried to start a new colony with the 15 fry (+ the fry that survived in the tank.).
Whether or not, another really aggressive mbuna like kenyi would be the better choice of tank mate is a good question (??). Could end up with too much friction over dominance of the tank. Of course the tank mates can't be push overs either.....because auratus is unlikely to respect that. I think in my mixed tanks, I've had the advantage that auratus is never 'top dog'. There is always some deterrent to keep them in line, at least a little bit. But, the reality is that male salvini is just too lazy and indifferent to get involved much, in the affairs between rival auratus.


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

I'm actually beginning to sway on this. I might go with yellow labs and some duboisi. Are those a good pair? I had some of those before, and I remember them both being less aggressive. I do like the behaviour of the auratus, but I don't want to deal with all the craziness.


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## Kevin in Ky (Dec 31, 2013)

This is a really interesting thread even though I have never kept Auratus. I like a challange..but don't have a nearly large enough tank for it..but how would a group of..
Metriaclima sp. "Zebra Chilumba" (Luwino Reef)...(or Maison Reef) do with Auratus in a 125g?
Would it just be a blood bath..or could it work? My thought would be that the Zebras are big and bad enough..and opposite looking enough that the Auratus wouldn't mess with them. Or are they just that Psycho? If you rock-scaped with 2 large piles on opposite ends of the tank with some open area between? Wouldn't that work..or am I wrong? I am curious to hear thoughts on that plan. I do plan to get a 125g or larger sometime in the future and would love to base it around the Zebra Chilumba Maison Reefs.


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

I just remember the Auratus doing that thing where it looks like they are vibrating when they get ticked. I will say they bred like crazy in my 46 gallon tank. I was overrun by mutt fry.


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## Stellardynamic (Mar 2, 2016)

To balance out an Auratus add Pseudotropheus socolofi to your tank. These guys are an incredible combo and will balance each others aggression out.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=919


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

Would the albino version of this still work? I painted the backside of the aquarium an aqua color.


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## Stellardynamic (Mar 2, 2016)

No the Albino is much more docile and smaller. This fish has beautiful dark fins.. I too have the blue/aqua background and he looks great. It loves to dig caves and dens for mating to such a great fish!


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

My aquarium is getting closer to being cycled. Once it's done cycling, can I add the catfish before the auratus and whatever else I add? I might have to buy fish from multiple sites.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes if you don't add all at once, definitely add the most vulnerable fish first.


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

Finally cycled! I just can't decide what kind of fish to get. I'm thinking of stocking it with one cichlid (m. auratus or yellow labs) and some cuckoo catfish. If I did one breed of cichlid and the cats, how many of each should I get?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Multipunctatus I would get 7. Yellow labs I would get 25.


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Start off putting whatever the least aggressive fish you want is, and put in some dithers before anything else. Like danios, silver dollars, and so on. If you want some peacocks put them in after the dithers. They will basically be like dithers themselves in an mbuna tank.

I had about half a dozen auratus and never had problems with them. If they did not have anything tough to fight then I think they'd cause problems though.

I had red zebras that were the dominant ones in the tank and they kept them in line. They dominate but they don't go for the throat like some fish - especially kenyi and demasoni.

So that is probably a good place to start. You don't need to add in 50 fish at once or anything like some suggest. Just add them smart ie put in your dithers and peacocks first then less aggressive to more aggressive in small groups and you should be fine so long as there's plenty of rocks. Ideal mbuna tank is rock and shell from top to bottom with tons of little hiding places too small for bigger fish to get into where juvies can hide when they want.

For a big tank I would get a hap too like a venustus or red fin as a centerpiece or some other big fish like buttikoferi, but that is not needed. Once he gets bigger cover is even more important as he will snap up any juvies that don't have a resting place.

So personally I'd do something like this, added in order:
6 giant danio
3 silver dollars
6 rainbowfish

3-4 male peacocks

1 male hap

3-4 rusties
3-4 mangaino
3-4 acei
3-4 red zebras
3-4 bumblebees
3-4 kenyi
3-4 auratus

If you can get all males you can also get one of each just to start but you'll want to increase the numbers quickly to avoid problems. Though I have kept small numbers of mbuna cichlids before with dithers and cover, it's not as stable.

You can substitute some of these out with similarly aggressive fish.



BC in SK said:


> I think that is really key; to start with larger numbers of auratus. At least that way there is a chance that aggression will get spread around and not focused so much on particular individuals.
> 
> If I were to attempt auratus again (which I probably wouldn't) , I would definitely do things a little different. I believe I under stocked too much to have good chance of success. Any other mbuna I've kept, would have gotten away with it, with out any real problems. I tried to up my numbers with the fry I had, but they got chased ridiculously and killed off by the other auratus at around the 2" size (similar in size to what juvie mbuna are sold at the LFS). IME, really not at all typical of what I experience with other mbuna or any other cichlid for that matter. Fish did not have to be of similar weight class for them to focus on. Lots of incidents with this fish over the years..... sometimes no apparent rhyme or reason why they focus on particular fish! In hindsight, I should have moved the adults to another tank and tried to start a new colony with the 15 fry (+ the fry that survived in the tank.).
> Whether or not, another really aggressive mbuna like kenyi would be the better choice of tank mate is a good question (??). Could end up with too much friction over dominance of the tank. Of course the tank mates can't be push overs either.....because auratus is unlikely to respect that. I think in my mixed tanks, I've had the advantage that auratus is never 'top dog'. There is always some deterrent to keep them in line, at least a little bit. But, the reality is that male salvini is just too lazy and indifferent to get involved much, in the affairs between rival auratus.


If your fry don't have hiding spots a big fish can't get into, you don't have nearly enough cover in your tank.


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

DJRansome said:


> Multipunctatus I would get 7. Yellow labs I would get 25.


Which of these would I put in first? I know the labs are sort of a more tolerant cichlid. My wife is having a hard time coping with the startup cost of all this. I told her last night how much the fish are going to cost, and she was less than thrilled. Splitting this up into two purchases would soften the blow I think.

To the other poster, the dither fish concept is new to me. I've been reading about it since your post. It's interesting, but I think I want large schools of cichlids with less breeds. Last time I had cichlids, the cross breeding was out of control. Do I really need the dither fish if I stick to things like Labs?

Thanks for all the help!!


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

After looking down the whole thread, I am having trouble seeing what you are deciding for the final stock. Originally you were looking for something to go with auratus then it looked like you decided not auratus and wanted yellow labs. Do you want only yellow labs (and the catfish) now? The reason I ask is... as you know cichlids like to fool around. If you are OK with your tank taking time to look full, what you could do to save money is just get 5 or so yellow labs from somewhere nearby or maybe a local fish auction where you could get reasonable prices without the shipping of online orders (there should be something near durham). Grow up your 5 labs until you get one who is holding then put a divider in your tank with your momma and grow out your baby labs in that section of your tank. Once they get to 1.5inches you can remove the divider and voila! This plan would show your wife that you are taking her opinions into consideration and making changes to your plan because of it and when she see's the 1/2inch fry she will freak out at how cute they are and be much more into your hobby.

(btw if you are getting catfish and yellow labs only then I would do the yellow labs first if for no other reason than you will get a bunch of weird looks from company when you have a fish tank that looks bare)


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

NickJones623 said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> > Multipunctatus I would get 7. Yellow labs I would get 25.
> ...


You don't need any dithers per se but they are usually cheap fish for starters, and they occupy parts of the tank that mbunas won't. And ultimately they are there so your auratus will take bites out of your 2 dollar danios instead of your favorite female - or try to anyway, they will not have much luck as they are extremely fast.

Don't go out and buy 25 yellow labs whatever you do :lol:

I don't know why anyone would want 25 yellow labs anyway but a critical bit I left out is that you can let your fish breed between groups being added.

I actually don't recommend yellow labs at all for you because you want auratus. Crossbreeding comes mainly because of having similar colored female fish. So I would skip them entirely in a tank where you have another fish with yellow females.

If you get 3-4 rusties you are bound to get a male and female. In reality you just need one male and female. Just put her in another tank when she is carrying fry, or strip them. In just one brood you should get at least 10-15 fry and your population is suddenly high enough to add in even very aggressive fish.

30+ fish will cost you 300-450 bucks online, and not much better in a local fish store.

If you do it my way you just get 3-4 cichlids at a time and let breeding do the rest. When you get too many rusties, or others, then take them to your local fish store and trade them in for fish or equipment you actually want. You can also try selling them online.

You can do this hobby in a way that's extremely expensive, or in a way that it pays for itself. I suspect some people actually want others to do it the expensive way, your LFS of course would want that for example.


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

I'm a little overwhelmed. I should've broken this up into multiple threads maybe. I really appreciate all this info though. I need to explain my plan better. Ok, so I was never going to have auratus and yellow labs. Just one or the other and one other cichlid possibly that can coexist without crossbreeding or feuding constantly. Also, I don't really want to help any fry. I'll provide them places to hide, but I'm thinking survival of the fittest for the most part. The catfish are the most important element to me. It's been a long time since I've had cichlids, but in the back of my mind I've been planning on doing this again specifically because I want to see cuckoo catfish do their thing. That would be a personal goal achieved. I agree a crapload of one fish might look weird, but it seems more care free. I'm open to the dither idea. Although, I wonder if could get creative with that? Thanks again!


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## Fish Jerk (Mar 9, 2016)

Well if catfish are your thing I am not sure that african cichlids are a great match. You can mix them together but if you really want catfish not anything else, I would think you'd want a fine substrate and not too many rocks. Otherwise you may not even see your catfish that much. I am not an expert there, though.

In a catfish tank maybe I would get some schooling fish or maybe some angels I guess. Stuff that will go to the top and mid levels and looks nice. Another benefit is many of those fish are pretty cheap. I have gotten silver dollars and angels for 2 bucks a pop since someone is always breeding them somewhere.


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

The catfish I'm talking about (cuckoo or synodontis multipunctatis) is "parasitic." It tricks mouth brooding cichlids into raising its fry. That's what I want to see.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I might choose a different Malawi, let me see if I can find a species suggested by others. I have gotten a fry or two with mbuna, but just good luck.

The Synodontis have to be very mature. Best estimate was that my group was 7 years old or older (because someone else owned them before me without getting fry).

It helps to strip the mother because the Syno eggs hatch first and cannibalize any other eggs in the cichlid's mouth.

Here is an article from Cichlid-forum Library.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/s ... ctatus.php

And a more specific article from www.planetcatfish.com. They are using Placidochromis electra (Deep Water Hap) which is a good choice. You could even do them and the yellow labs for a nice color combo.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... cle_id=264


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## NickJones623 (Feb 25, 2016)

DJRansome said:


> I might choose a different Malawi, let me see if I can find a species suggested by others. I have gotten a fry or two with mbuna, but just good luck.
> 
> The Synodontis have to be very mature. Best estimate was that my group was 7 years old or older (because someone else owned them before me without getting fry).
> 
> ...


It's a cruel world, and I say let them cannibalize. If I strip them, I won't get to see the weird catfish fry being taken care of by the cichlid. Am I sort of demented? I thought this would be something everybody would want to see? opcorn: I knew they had to be at least 3 years old before they're sexually mature.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The cichlid does not care for the catfish any more then the cichlid cares for it's own fry. Once spit (at least for the last time) the mom forgets about the babies...even eats them herself.

You will get a bunch of catfish babies if you strip...and likely only one if that if you don't. But I never stripped.


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