# How does Ceramic tubes act as Bio filters & best Bio-fil



## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

This is a question that has haunted me quite often and I thought perhaps it would be silly to ask an accepted fact. I use Ceramic tubes because others use it too and thats what its supposed to be used for i.e. Biological filtration. But now I wonder how and where the bacteria builds up. Is it in the microsopic pores of the ceramic tube ?

Using Nylon dish cleaner I have read is a very good substitute. Is it as good as the Ceramic tubes or Bio Balls ? The surface area i find is maximum in the Nylon scrubbers, followed by the Bio-ball. Ceramic tubes would come in last.

If sumps (again occupying a large area) is discounted in the discussion, then perhaps, its apt that the best Bio-filtration can be defined as the highest filtration(No. of Bacteria)/area. *And in this context, would also like to know which is the best Bio filter in terms of area occupied i.e. max bacteria/sq. cm say*.

A good discussion will help in getting the maximum filtration of our tanks.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Maybe I also need to add some conditions to my above query. Something might be a very good Bio-filter but extremely costly, lets discount that. Again, there might be something which needs to be replaced quite frequently, adding up the $$$$. So realistically, what would be the best long term Bio-filters. Anyways Bio-filters need to be long term to be really effective :lol:


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Not sure what the ceramic tubes are, but if they are the same as ehfimech, they are used as a mechanical filter media. I use ehfimech as the mechanical stage, and seachem Matrix or Eheim substrat as bio in my filters.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Eheim Ehfimech are biological, you could use them as mechanical.. but kind of pointless just as mechanical and not using its biomedia capabilities. The main aim of these cylinder type bio media is to give maximum flow if that is an issue.

A Nylon dish cleaner is yes suppose to have a lot of surface area. But a lot of the "Expensive" media do a lot more then just having surface area. They are designed with special purposes in mind also. Matrix for example boosts that some of its media in a low flow filter will create bacteria that will convert nitrate due to the small pores.

Also the Nylon dish cleaner will act a lot more as mechanical then biological. The amount of **** it will trap might even slow down the amount of bacteria that is able to grow on its surfaces. A lot of expensive media will allow a passing of large contamients in the filter. My matrix for example doesn;t collect a lot of **** .. just a quick 10 second rinse in tank water and away i go, normally it has nothing to clean. You might find your ringing out your Nylon dish cleaner for quite a time before its clean.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

This is an excellent guide - http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/filter ... terial.htm

To add to the confusion, some state that Ceramic media are actually mech filters whilst others say that they are excellent Bio-media.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Not trying to get one up on ya .. but this one is by far a better artical for media.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwfiltrmedart.htm

It goes into a lot more then just surface area. Surface are is important yes, but having a lot of surface area shouldn't come at a cost to your particular setup.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Some food for thought :
http://water.me.vccs.edu/courses/env110/lesson16.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_b ... _contactor

No issues Nodaliser, anything which will show some light on a suitable media is welcome. Please carry on


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

This is getting even more interesting though some of the technologies do not offer any commercial products. However one may go through these interesting links -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanotechnology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_machines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_situ_oxidation


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

If you are speaking of the ceramic tubes that come with Eheim Classis filters, there might be some information from reading the Eheim instructions online. They place the tubes near the start of the filtering process as a way to distribute the water more rather than dumping it all in one spot. Seems logical to get the water swirling around and hitting the next layer spread over the whole surface. I would assume there would be some bacteria on them but I don't see them as a form of bio or mechanical filter media but just as a way of "channeling" the water? Then the rest of the canister has plenty of bio and mechanical for the size pump they provide. Many times when we try to out-design the designers, we don't get it right. I always come back to thinking Eheim knows far more about filter design than I ever will.


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## dubghod (Oct 20, 2011)

PfunMo said:


> If you are speaking of the ceramic tubes that come with Eheim Classis filters, there might be some information from reading the Eheim instructions online. They place the tubes near the start of the filtering process as a way to distribute the water more rather than dumping it all in one spot. Seems logical to get the water swirling around and hitting the next layer spread over the whole surface. I would assume there would be some bacteria on them but I don't see them as a form of bio or mechanical filter media but just as a way of "channeling" the water? Then the rest of the canister has plenty of bio and mechanical for the size pump they provide. Many times when we try to out-design the designers, we don't get it right. I always come back to thinking Eheim knows far more about filter design than I ever will.


Yes, I use an Eheim cannister with the ceramic tubes in the first section. The next 2 sections are filled with the ceramic media balls, there seems to be less information about these though in the articles *** read so far.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

PfunMo, I always thought ceramic media to be a bio-media. Looked up in a number of places and they all say its basically a bio media.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebinde ... medart.htm
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariu ... 30517.html


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Some more insights on Bio-medias -

http://www.wernersponds.com/biofiltermedia.htm
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... lter-Media


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## skurj (Oct 30, 2011)

Fluval sell 2 different tube type media.. one mech one bio..

http://ca-en.hagen.com/Aquatic/Media-In ... rnal/A1470
http://ca-en.hagen.com/Aquatic/Media-In ... rnal/A1456


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

This is getting more interesting.

http://www.aquaristsonline.com/blog/aqu ... er-filter/
http://www.aquaristsonline.com/blog/aqu ... -best-one/
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/ar ... 12916.html
http://www.tropical-fish-success.com/bi ... media.html
http://users.vcnet.com/rrenshaw/filtermedia.html

and this article here clearly indicates that sandy beaches (meaning sand substrate in our tanks), mangrove swamps (perhaps meaning proper plant forms) are the natural and the best source of Bio-filtration
http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/commu ... le&sid=133


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Now here is something in a different perspective and very relevant. Its not just the media but the other factors involved like flow rate, turn-over rate etc. Read this - http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... r-turnover

Some more articles on Biological filtration - 
http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/noodles.html#1
https://sites.google.com/a/asira.org/www2/filtration


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Nodalizer said:


> Eheim Ehfimech are biological, you could use them as mechanical.. but kind of pointless just as mechanical and not using its biomedia capabilities. The main aim of these cylinder type bio media is to give maximum flow if that is an issue.


Ehfimech is sold as a mechanical media by Eheim, it is the first stage of filtration in the classic line of filters, designed to trap debris before it gets to the bio media. There are plenty of media out there with far more surface area than Ehfimech that can be used as bio media.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm not saying it does not harbor some bacteria, but just that it is not designed as such. The little round balls are what Eheim has designed as bio-media. Almost any surface will let a certain amount of bacteria hang around but if it has lots of tiny surfaces, it works better than just a flat surface. 
One thing to note when you are doing a search for information on the internet. It is easy to find good info but it is also easy to find information that can be totally wrong. Almost anybody who wants to can hang out a website. That leaves the quality of the information to range from excellent to totally useless. I'm not saying that any of the sites noted are bad, just that all information on the internet deserves a good check before trusting it fully.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I understand its distrubance of the water, fast and slow currents resulting within the media, causes larger particals to be trapped. I was saying is it would be a waste to not use them as biological also, why would I bother saying this? because some people wash there mechanic media in clorine etc, and i think doing that for this media would be a crying shame.

Where do people normally put this media if they use it ? Top of filter above all sponges ?


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

I run this tube stuff right after the sponges, before EHFI sintered glass stuff that is my main bio filter in that canister.

It gets pretty nasty, I gently swirl it with tank water to try to keep the nylon bag sort of clean.


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## clekchau (Jul 24, 2011)

wow thanks for all the links!


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Interesting, back in the day I always thought using these type of tubes as mechanical was to prefilter before any fine filtration like sponges and the like.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

On my Classics (2217) i just go with the provided media in the way Eheim shows on the box. I cut one box apart and posted the picture over my utility sink. They put the plastic grid first, then the Eheim mech which is the tube shaped item, then course foam, Eheim substrate pro which is now the ball shaped item followed by the white filter pad and the top grid. In the instructions they mention the first layer directs and distibutes the water. I'm sure it does some mechanical as well but since the openings are small pencil size, it would be really course filtering. The next layer being a course spong would further reduce the particle size passed on into the bil-filtering balls. After bio, the white pad is to do the final filter or polish. I've tried adding a second layer of bonder fiber pad with the white but I can't say there was any difference so I have stopped and just run it the standard way and find it works so well that I don't ask to improve it.

When cleaning, I never intend to actually risk any of the spots where bacteria are found. It just seems better to leave them wherever they want to live!


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Get a 2-3 feet long 1/2" dia PVC pipe. Use a sandpaper to roughen it up real hard till you can see the fibres coming out. Use a kitchen knife to make jagged cuts on the pipe. Then cut up the pipe into 1/2 feet size each. Take a used steel scrubber after pulling it apart and making it longish just like the PVC tube. Attach the two ends to some strong nylon rope and secure it firmly. Now insert the rope inside the PVC pipe and pull it in and out with the two ends of the rope at either end of the pipe. Cut the PVC pipe in 1" long pieces. *YOU HAVE PROBABLY THE BEST BIO-FILTER IN THE WORLD.* =D> =D> =D> =D>

Jokes apart, the microscopic fibres, counting in trillions and of microscopic length will harbour & home all the bacteria. And yes, no fear of clogging and great flow through the pipe.


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## Jammos (Nov 25, 2010)

If you want to learn how these Bio filters work then learn about biofilm. It will explain why certain materials and designs work for 'Bio filtration'

Here is a basic link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofilm

Your friendly Microbiologist - Jammos


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

PfunMo said:


> On my Classics (2217) i just go with the provided media in the way Eheim shows on the box. I cut one box apart and posted the picture over my utility sink. They put the plastic grid first, then the Eheim mech which is the tube shaped item, then course foam, Eheim substrate pro which is now the ball shaped item followed by the white filter pad and the top grid. In the instructions they mention the first layer directs and distibutes the water. I'm sure it does some mechanical as well but since the openings are small pencil size, it would be really course filtering. The next layer being a course spong would further reduce the particle size passed on into the bil-filtering balls. After bio, the white pad is to do the final filter or polish. I've tried adding a second layer of bonder fiber pad with the white but I can't say there was any difference so I have stopped and just run it the standard way and find it works so well that I don't ask to improve it.
> 
> When cleaning, I never intend to actually risk any of the spots where bacteria are found. It just seems better to leave them wherever they want to live!


That is the way I would have installed it also. Putting it after the sponge would be counter productive as mechanical protection as it would have no large debris to trap hehe and yer it would chop up the incomming water and thus distribute the flow a bit more.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Reminds me of a story. During the development stage of the NASA space programme, thousands of dollars were spent to develop an anti-gravity pen that the astronauts could use during space flight. Just maybe, NASA didnt think that a lead pencil could be as effective and more efficient and much cheaper. 

Drop a 1" PVC pipe and a 1" ceramic tube into a tank. Check every 2 hrs to see which item gets populated first.

Next, ever see the gunk in your canister inlet/outlet pipe ? Well, its strange the bacteria didnt prefer your bio-balls, your ceramic tubes, the matrix & the efhimech etc and all the other commercially sold items and decided that even your pipe was good enough.

For a comparision, think of the human body. How much food does a normal human being consume in a day and how long does it take the enzyme & bacteria to break it down. Compare it with the number of fish in your tank. And I dare say, the human stomach & intestine would probably be classified as the best bio-filter film media. Consume more food, the human body increases its enzyme/bacteria production and the food is digested. Same goes with a tank.

Ever tried a tank with no internal/external filter or sump ??? Ex. A natural pond. Fish live, die and even rot. Weather changes, plant which grow during winter die off, leaving the tank bare. Where does the extra bacteria come from and where does it reside ? I have seen a simple brick tank located outdoors with algae and lots & lots of fish in it. Some experts would jump up and say its over-loaded etc etc. Yet, the fish survive year after year, spawn, with no filtration and no heating system.

I am not an expert in this field but I think, a properly cycled tank, provided no experimentation 
is done on it like change of substrate etc etc would/will have naturally created, as much bacteria as its needed to remove the wastes in a natural process. Yes, we see the veterans often quote that they have had tanks since the last 30 or 40 years and never used Carbon or Ceramics or all the commercially available medias and bottled bacteria we use these days.

One can opt for a costly commercial product, (which even I do) which is a personal choice, but rationally, its not worth a cent except for a good nights sleep. =D>


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

If we had the outside pond and wanted it in our house, it might work. We would have to agree to fish dying, rotting waste, and all the other things that go with ponds being in our house. Dragonflies, frogs, and cattails are not something that I want in my house, so I go for the more traditional media!

I like to let the experts who do it every day, do the design work, because they ARE the experts. They know where the bacteria live and most likely have even seen bacteria. Me, I wouldn't know a good bacteria from a bad one even if I had a microscope!


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Like I said, its a personal choice. Each one takes his own decision. I did my cycling in 23 days with no commercial bottled bacteria or with seeded media. I am happy with the results since i did not have to do it a number of times like many in the hobby.

I wouldnt like to get into an argument on this topic since neither am I an expert nor experienced. I for one, have perhaps more faith on the experienced. Experts matter, so does experience of those who have been in this hobby for long. We, may choose the recommendations of either which is a personal choice. Experts make mistakes and so do the experienced. What really matters is the end result, that is a cycled tank functioning well.

BTW Two experts in the field of finance, awarded with the nobel prize on economics & finance a few years back started their own financial firm which went bust in less than 2 years. So that defines an expert. Anyways, I think its a personal choice.


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## limpert (Aug 28, 2007)




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## inurocker (May 9, 2011)

I think you will find most everyone has opinions what media and where in the chain to use it and what has been successful for them. I'm also sure depending the application most if not all will do the job at hand. 
I use lace base rock in my tanks for the same reason I did in my reef tanks. It holds a ton of bio surface area and with good circulation increases my bio filtration.
In my sunsun canister filter
First fluval prefilter hard ceramic hexagonal noodles. (Pulls out larger particles. Hey it works)
Second nylon pot scrubbers. (Mechanical/ bio)
Third ceramic noodles porous round lots of surface area.(bio)
Forth LECA Lightweight Expanded Clay Aggregrate round balls of fired clay porous. ( bio /nitrate reduction)
I also use a hob 400 with poly pads and two power heads with foam pads for mechanical 
When I service I rinse all of the above in tank water and return to service with the exception of the 400 pads that I bleach rinse and air dry. I have several sets so no waiting.
All of this works for me but YMMV.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

I completely agree with you inurocker.



> LECA Lightweight Expanded Clay Aggregrate round balls of fired clay porous


This thing has really aroused my interest. Can you tell me what exactly this thing is. Is it just clay baked at high temperature? Can unglazed clay pot pieces do ? Any specification regarding what temperature they are baked in? Would be grateful if you could kindly post some pictures.

Thanks a lot for your reply.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

inurocker, the product you mentioned is basically *Clinoptilolite*, a type of naturally occuring clay. It is one of the more useful natural zeolites. However, Clinoptilolite, just like Zeolites *does not* remove Nitrates. It removes Ammonia which may otherwise be converted into Nitrates. Its acts as an antioxidant and has other healing and toxin removal capability.

The only way Nitrates can be removed is through (1) Reverse osmosis (2) Ion exchange and (3) electrodialysis (4) Biological Denitrification. 1 through 3 are not economically viable in an aquarium setup whereas Biological Denitrification requires a Carbon source such as Methyl Alcohol, in a controlled environment, which again cannot be used in an aquarium i suppose. In a natural process, Nitrates is removed by algae which makes it strip the Nitrogen from the Nitrate. However, then one has to then deal with algae problem in the tank. These days, there are commercially available resins which the manufacturers claim can remove 90-95% of the Nitrates. Its upto the tank owner what he decides as a step to remove Nitrates. Water change, planted aquarium or maybe one of the resins sold commercially.

Thanks.


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## inurocker (May 9, 2011)

I will try and remember to take some pics next time I service my system. There are tons of pics if you do a google search for leca or hydroton.
Same thing as Eheim substrat pro just way less money. Yes I am a cheap bastage.  
The LECA is fired unglazed clay much like a brick. From a chemical reaction point of view I would think quite inert. I have no illusions of massive bio denitrification how ever with the fine porous nature of this product I would expect some colonization of denitrifying bacteria. I use plants too. My regular maintenance of changing mechanical pads every 2 to 3 day and weekly water changes removes the root cause of high nitrates. 
If i were to build a nitrate reactor this would be my first media of choice for experimentation.
I use the nylon scrubbers packed tight in the same as I would eheim fix.
In my thinking any and all wet surfaces in the ecosystem of ones aquarium are covered in bacteria and serve as bio filter but only as much as the system has nutrients for no more no less. As with everything balance is the key.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Looks like you have really researched well before fixing your filter media. It must be effective then. Its such information like you have given that can be of immense help to lot of us here. I have also learn that Eucalyptus and duck weed are also very efficient in nitrate removal but maybe they cannot be used as a filter medium. Thanks again for the information.


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## krfhsf (Dec 25, 2008)

when you discounted sumps you lost me. :zz:


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