# What effect does sodium fluoride have on our fish?



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

They put sodium fluoride in our water (and toothpaste) to prevent cavities. Although it is a well known fact that it only helps children under the age of 12. Now with the release of new documents (freedom of information act) it has come to light the health risks far out weigh the health benefits. It is now known to cause many types of cancer and bone disease in humans. This is something that we only drink from time to time. We dont live in the stuff 24/7 like our fish do. Sodium Fluoride is the waste product from making atomic bombs. Don't believe me just google it "atomic bomb waste and fluoride" (Manhattan Project). Sodium Fluoride IS RAT POISON, go look at the back label of Decon Rat Poison, or any other rat poison. Even the rat poison can says keep it from getting into the water systems and away from our animals. It is something the body will never get rid of, it holds on to it and lets it build up. It's on the poison control list right under arsenic. I just worry what long term effects this stuff is having on our fish who live in and breathe this poison tainted water every day. My town stopped putting in the water three years ago. Two third of this country still puts in their water. Is this why some otherwise health fish die for no apparent reason? They just reached their level of toxicity and expire?


----------



## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

I wouldnt shed to much light on it millions of fish are kept in it and kept well, as far as we are concerned everything kills us  the human race is doomed we just dont know when.


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Some people are happy to keep blinders on and keep on with their lives until it effects them directly. I just don't understand why you would be content to take small amounts of rat poison daily, much less give it to your fish. I mean if it weren't in your water already would you go get a can of Decon rat poison and start adding it every time you do a water change? Is this why some people in some areas (that still have fluoride in their water) have difficulty keeping sensitive fish? Look at how many people have trouble keeping EBJDs. Look at the life span of a dog now. They used to live to be 20 years old, now your lucky if they live 10 years and don't die of some kind of cancer. They only drink the water fish live in it and are far more sensitive than a dog. Flat out it's polution that is intentionally put being in our water and they charge us for it too. I understand a lot of things kill us, so does this mean we should just lay down and just let it happen? If it's killing people then it has to have negative effect on our fish so they aren't being kept well you just think they are.


----------



## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

I would normally agree but things on different lvls affect us differently, such as sudaphed"sp?" good drug for help with colds but was also a key ingredient in meth. alcohol good for you in moderation can kill you if you drink to much. not having flouride in my water im not as upset as you but im not sure the amount added could really affect our fish as much as just them being in an aqurium and not the wild.


----------



## bntbrl (Apr 23, 2009)

Im not sure about sodium flouride, and Im not into getting poisoned either but if you drink enough water (clean and pure and fresh) you will die. Theres a number of reasons why drinking water will kill you, flushing away electrolytes, cant get rid of it fast enough etc. I for the greater part of my life have not used flouride, as I had well water. I have had numerous dental procedures while my sister has not. We both had the same water system, and I think she simply got better genetics as far as teeth go. I feel like we dont need flouride inthe water anyway.

Who knows what else is really in our water? The plastic hoses we use to fillt he tanks likely have pba or some other toxic chemicals, everything has something.

You start dying as soon as you are born. You just have to make the best of it and make calculated decisions.

I have noticed that dogs dont live as long now. It is common to hear that they have cancers. The foods that we buy is a large part of it. Rendering plants buy carcasses, and make dog food with it. No testing etc.


----------



## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

I agree we have 3 generations of pure breed golden retrievers they have never tasted flouride we have a well/spring and filters our oldest is 12 which is oldest one we have owned. due to there breeding is what affects there age could be true with fish escpecially EBJDs


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

I'm saying I don't want any poison added to my water at all. I don't want my children or my fish consuming poison in small amounts on a daily bases for their whole life. There are no real benefits from adding it so why do it at all? The very small benefit of helping to prevent cavities has now been proven to be manufactured science. So where is the benefit to add rat poison to our water? I have to ask did you google anything pertaining to this subject. If not that explains your complacency. That or fluoride is in your drinking water, complacency is a side effect of fluoride as well. Did you know the Nazis put fluoride in the drinking water of the Jewish people in the German concentration camps to make them easier to handle ie exterminate them? The only benefits I see is in the medical industry, they have hit the mother load of diseases with fluoride. I'm sure they are making a lot of money treating all the health problems it causes. It's toxic waste that should cost millions of dollars to dispose of properly but instead it's being sold to the public. Don't be a sheep.........Diaster


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

I agree with drinking too much water at one time. We know that better here in Florida than most states as it can get 98+ degrees in the summer. That is why gatorade was invented to replace the electrolytes the football players were losing. I use a drinking safe water hose to fill my tanks as well. I'm not talking about these kinds of things. I'm talking about something that is being added to our water intentionally, at a cost to us, that has no real benefits. Why?


----------



## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

If you are just pulling random facts off of google "the internet" its hard to say how valid it is and im sure flouride was the last thing on anyone mind in a concentration camp of all places. Im not saying I want you to be poisoned like I said no flouride in my water. All im saying is there are bigger things to worry about. Go buy bottled water that will solve your problem, maybe talk to your citys water treatment or council try and actually change something rather than just sit on your computer and complain about like everyone else. Don't be a sheep.........lil mama


----------



## fishghost (Jul 27, 2003)

Lil mama,

I understand what you're saying and I dig it. If it is added to the water supply, how is one supposed to get the treatment facility to stop adding it? I don't think they would care if people wrote letters saying the flouride in the water is killing my fish! Is there a filter to remove it like RO filters. I don't have the issue of flouride as the house I just moved into has well water.


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Diaster said:



> If you are just pulling random facts off of google "the internet" its hard to say how valid it is and im sure flouride was the last thing on anyone mind in a concentration camp of all places. Im not saying I want you to be poisoned like I said no flouride in my water. All im saying is there are bigger things to worry about. Go buy bottled water that will solve your problem, maybe talk to your citys water treatment or council try and actually change something rather than just sit on your computer and complain about like everyone else. Don't be a sheep.........lil mama


If you go back and read my first post I stated my town stopped using fluoride three years ago. People can make a difference by writing letters to city officials and attending town meetings. As we did here in my town and the 5 other cities in this area. All of which have stopped using fluoride. If you check with poison control you will see fluoride is on the poison list right under arsenic. Look at the back of a can of rat poison, how much proof do you need to believe? I don't just sit on my conputer and complain I talk to people all the time who are completely unaware of what fluoride is. A lot of them are happy to gain new knowledge some don't care but at least I have honestly tried to do something around here. Believe it or not I care about people and animals that's why I won't be a sheep.


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

fishghost said:


> Lil mama,
> 
> I understand what you're saying and I dig it. If it is added to the water supply, how is one supposed to get the treatment facility to stop adding it? I don't think they would care if people wrote letters saying the flouride in the water is killing my fish! Is there a filter to remove it like RO filters. I don't have the issue of flouride as the house I just moved into has well water.


Thanks fishghost, We wrote letters to the city officials and attended town meetings with petitions signed by hundreds of people. Sadly the way we got through to them was to point out how much it would save them in the town budget. End results they stopped using it which is what we were after. It's not just killing your fish it's killing you too.


----------



## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

Well than you have me confused on what this post was for? It had nothing to do with central American cichlids. If you got rid of flouride great but you are pretty much gonna have to start on the thousands of other things that will kill you maybe try and get people to drive cars safer? get the radiation out of our cell phones? clean up the air? the list goes on


----------



## bntbrl (Apr 23, 2009)

> Arsenic is thought to be essential in trace amounts, however the benefits are not known. It is used in homeopathic treatments for some digestive problems including burning pain and symptoms of dehydration. However, it is a metallic element that is extremely poisonous. Most people receive an adequate amount from their diet.


Arsenic is benefitial in minited quantities according to some googled facts. I havent done any tests one way or the other but I live in Seattle where being against the "man" is the norm and people will jump on the badwagon just because. I myself dont trust most facts off the internet unless they come from a reliable source. I understand that flouride is an additive and in high levels is poisonous, but so is a multitude of other things. Its likely the plastics that make out filters, airline hoses, paint on the gravel, and other thigns affect our fish.

I can do something about some things but I cant do everything about everything. I had heard about flouride a long time ago about it being detriemental.

Since I have moved from my home where I have grown up I havent noticed a difference in my fishs longevity or coloration or anything else really. I dont know how you could do a control unless you had access to city water and well water from a deepwell. I wouldnt trust groundwater as it gets all kinds of contaminates. However I have raised fish from shallow well water also.


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

Diaster said:


> Well than you have me confused on what this post was for? It had nothing to do with central American cichlids. If you got rid of flouride great but you are pretty much gonna have to start on the thousands of other things that will kill you maybe try and get people to drive cars safer? get the radiation out of our cell phones? clean up the air? the list goes on


We must start somewhere. You can't just have a defeatist attitude and do nothing. Winston Churchill once said "Many a man stumbles acrossed things, most pick themselves up dust themselves off and carry on as if nothing happened." I'm not one of those people. I'm sorry if that offends you and makes you angry with me. I never wanted to make you mad just aware.


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

bntbrl Do you know if your town added fluoride to your water? Not all towns do. You can find tace amounts of arsenic and fluoride that naturally occur in water. Women used to take arsenic to make their skin pale. I don't believe everthing I read on the internet. You have to double check, triple check everything you read. I only have to read the back of rat poison once. Yes, there are sonme benefits of rat poison they give it to people who have severe blood clotting problems, as it thins the blood. That is fine for them but I don't want it for me or my fish. Thank you for your input on not seeing any difference in your fish.


----------



## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

I'm not mad and i'm not really defeated. I am glad you got it out of your water and its sad to think that the only reason they changed their minds was due to money but that is how the world works a human life does have a dollar sign in front of it, it sucks but that is how it is. I just think that probably keeping them in an aquarium is 10X worse than the water that they get while they are in it. Also the water from our tap is still better quality than most streams, ponds, lakes reservoirs in America and most likely CA and SA as sewage, agriculture, and the works flood into our rivers and oceans all day everyday.


----------



## lil mama (Nov 24, 2007)

I'm glad we got it out of water too. Yes, it is sad that the only reason they stopped using it was to save money. I've excepted that money makes the world go round. We just used that fault in our favor. When fluoride is being added to a water suppy it is so toxic it must be tested 3 times a day every day by a specialist. Between the specialist and the cost of fluoride it saved our little town over $300,000 a year. Do you know what the main ingredient in Prozac and other anti-depressants is? Flouride. It numbs the mind. Canada and all of Europe doesn't put it in their water because they openly addmit that it causes all kinds of health issues. I understand that there is pollution in the water ways everywhere. I live in Florida I see it every day and it makes me sick. I understand there are other things to worry about too. I write our Congressmen and Senators all the time. Like this new Federal tax they are trying to add on to everybodies electric bill. Or the VAT tax (value added tax) that they are trying to get passed. The Green Bill that Gore is trying to get passed. I could go on and on and I do when I write those letters. All I was doing here was posing the question. If the added fluoride can cause cancer in say a 200 pound man by the time he is 45 or 50 years old who occasioally drinks water then what is it doing to a 4" fish who is living and breathing it everyday. When I mentioned EBJD I understand that they are a weaker fish and that many will die beacause of that fact alone. I was just pondering do these weaker fish not have a chance in water tainted with extra fluoride? I see people on this forum that seem to have a perfectly healthy EBs and keep their tank very clean but still lose EB after EB.


----------



## bntbrl (Apr 23, 2009)

The water systesm were for large municipalities and I think strongly that it was added to it. Im not 100 percent certain though.

The water quality in many CA and SA streams and rivers are poor from mining and runoff. I would think that the water quality is better from our tap though. It may be missing some trace minerals here and there but Im not sure of that.

There is another post about someone that is having trouble with well water. Im not sure what his problem is yet but he seems to have trouble with tap w ater and his cichlids.


----------



## Diaster (Aug 17, 2009)

Sometimes well water can be really alkaline sometimes it cant I remember one year at my parents house our normal water was pretty neutral around 7.1 7.2 but one year it was high like 8 or something didn't really mess with my fish because I had hardy species and I was young so I wasnt trying to breed anything yet but the point is there can be inconsistencies in well water. "we have the oldest well in the community and it has never dried up as some of our neighbors have in the summer"


----------

