# Yellow lab - no black



## urban.joey (Apr 26, 2009)

I was at a LFS recently and noticed some beautiful yellow labs. They were 2-3 inches. The majority were pure yellow - only a few had the black on the fins. Hybrids? I did not ask the LFS owner at that time but when it comes time to purchase I will. Thanks for any insights.


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## PitBully (Apr 14, 2009)

How big were they?


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## nauTik (Mar 18, 2009)

PitBully said:


> How big were they?





urban.joey said:


> They were 2-3 inches.


If they don't have any black on their fins, my best guess would be that they are hybrids. Even at sizes much smaller they should have black on their fins.

Jeez there are a lot of yellow lab hybrid threads lately


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## PitBully (Apr 14, 2009)

Well they must be hybrids or poorly bred.


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## urban.joey (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks, everyone.

Does that mean the ones with the black could also be (or most likely are) hybrids as well?

I also read in another post that this is not a problem if I don't plan on giving the fry away as pure yellow labs. I guess since yellow labs are so abundant in local fish stores I should just find one that has pure yellow labs.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

nauTik said:


> Jeez there are a lot of yellow lab hybrid threads lately


 the "dirty" looking black labs were not selling very well... easy way to mask an undesired gene is bring in new blood. 
I've seen all-yellow hybrids for sale in LFS, online, from breeders who did not know how to see the problem, etc.

It will (if it is not already) get to the point where "Yellow labs" are the mutts and anyone with the real species will start to differentiate that... maybe we should all start saying Caeruleus instead of Lab


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## PChap (Mar 6, 2007)

It will (if it is not already) get to the point where "Yellow labs" are the mutts and anyone with the real species will start to differentiate that... maybe we should all start saying Caeruleus instead of Lab

Don't know if you're really being serious or not, but this is absolutely right. I'm not a professional icthyologist, but I've taken to scanning the "yellow labs" anytime I'm in my LFS or one of the big box stores, and most of them look like hybrids or really bad specimens I wouldn't want in my tanks. We really just need to let the hybrids have the "Yellow Lab" name, or something else, whatever doesn't matter, just need to better seperate the two.


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## Norse76 (Jul 20, 2008)

It is getting to the point to where you cannot buy any cichlid from a LFS or Retail Pet Chain without the worry of some type of crossing. When I first jumped from South Americans to Africans, I purchased my first fish from a well known Pet Retail Store. OF course they were in a tank only named "African Cichlid Aggressive" so I had them identified on here and found out by very reputable persons here, that they were in fact hybrids.

After that incident, and 60 dollars lost, I began to purchase my fish from a well known and highly reputable breeders that have very positive feedback via this forum. The shipping stinks but at the least, you know that the fish you bought are not hybrid. :thumb:

And to curve the cross breeding within the tank, I am starting too specifically ask for male only in the dimorphic species, and segregate the monomorphs until they can be properly sexed. 8)


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

*PChap*
I'm serious, just respectful of the likely reaction of many.

I know I'd pay much more attention to an add for "F1 l.caeruleus" than I would for "F1 yellow labs". I wonder if I'm a rare shopper, or starting to get more common?


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## PChap (Mar 6, 2007)

I feel your pain Norse. Pretty soon you'll walk into Pet-xxxx and the tanks will be labeled "FISH".


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## Norse76 (Jul 20, 2008)

PChap said:


> I feel your pain Norse. Pretty soon you'll walk into Pet-xxxx and the tanks will be labeled "FISH".


Hehe its almost to that point now.


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I guess I shouldn't be so ashamed of my bearded & barred "dirty lab"  L. caeruleus. He really does have nice black markings on his fins :thumb: .


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## ddarden90 (Mar 16, 2009)

can anyone post some pics to show the difference between a hybrid and a "pure blood".


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

ddarden90 said:


> can anyone post some pics to show the difference between a hybrid and a "pure blood".


 I don't personally find it important to make this distinction, only matching the species profile, not matching.

As for the species, see here: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=713

hybrids, line breeds, mutants, sports, misfits are anything other than yellow and black as per the link.

Hope that helps.


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## AlphaWild (Apr 9, 2009)

I asked a similar question here http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=194165 and got some good insight.


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## jschall (Apr 2, 2009)

PChap said:


> I feel your pain Norse. Pretty soon you'll walk into Pet-xxxx and the tanks will be labeled "FISH".


There'll be one big tank with a net machine in it and you'll play it like the CLAW.


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## jaq855 (May 29, 2007)

When you say a lab is a hybrid, what are they bred with?


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## nauTik (Mar 18, 2009)

jaq855 said:


> When you say a lab is a hybrid, what are they bred with?


lab + x = lab hybrid

x could be anything, hybrid just means it isn't a pure lab.


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## jaq855 (May 29, 2007)

I know what the word hybrid means, but you can't just cross a lab with anything. I imagine the other fish would at least have to also be a mbuna if not the same or a similar genus.


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## cater20155 (Jun 16, 2008)

The Metriaclima estherea are a common fish to hybridize with the Labs. I believe someone posted a picture of a Kenyi that hybridized with a Lab. I personally had my ,thought to be, male Lab attempt to mate with a Fryeri, it was her first attempt so she aborted the eggs, so no hybrid fry there.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

jaq855 said:


> I imagine the other fish would at least have to also be a mbuna if not the same or a similar genus.


Unfortunately not. I've seen crosses with D. compressiceps for example.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

> I know what the word hybrid means, but you can't just cross a lab with anything. I imagine the other fish would at least have to also be a mbuna if not the same or a similar genus.


almost any mouth brooding cichlid when given the chance or housed incorrectly. It's just a shame when an uneducated owner is over the moon because their fish bred, creating hybrids and distributes the fry thinking he or she is a first class fish breeder and has done the right thing, even worse when a more experienced owner does it


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## AlphaWild (Apr 9, 2009)

So is it ever considered responsible/ethical to house different species in one tank and distribute fry as purebred?


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

The most ethical way of breeding is in single species tanks, however responsible breeing can be done with multiple species. Mbuna you have a better chance with, haps you must be much more careful with what you mix.
The most important thing is to provide plenty of females per male of each species you keep. Research, ask questions (many people on this site have decades of experience with these fish), keep fish that look dissimilar and preferably different genus.
Example would be the yellow lab, demasoni, Acei combo rarely produces hybrids providing adequate females are provided for each male. The reason is they are completely different looking and act very differently from each other.


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## nick a (Apr 9, 2004)

No matter what the mix--the possibility always will exist. The only 'fail-safe' in a properly thought out mixed tank is that the fish are so dissimilar that errors are highly obvious very early in fry development.

The head shape and coloration of Tropheops X Labidochromis fry are easily seen to be 'wrong'. The few survivors exhibit a wide range of traits as they mature. 
From lab like coloration with obvious tropheops head shape








to almost lab like head shape and almost solid yellow









Yes, this accident occurred in one of my tanks--no, none of these fish will ever leave that tank.


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## ddarden90 (Mar 16, 2009)

my father brought home a female lab a couple of months ago that was wild caught and she was holding, i was woundering if the babies could be hybrids because they haven't got the black in there fins yet and they are just yellow and it's has been two months since I striped them from her mouth. when my dad baught her he said she was housed with different spieces of cichlids that were also wild caught.


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

She has probably bred with another species while being kept before sale


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

These issues are why I am working on a personal breeding program with some of my LFS with labs. The labs available in Northern Virginia are ghastly. I have been working with dirty labs (likely being more pure lab than the nice yellow ones with very little to no black in the fins) and am trying to clean them up through careful line breeding. So far so good.

Male I started with 3 years ago:









4th generation female









I got barring and bearding out, now I am focusing on strengthening the black in the fins, which is proving more difficult.

I love this species and hate to see it go down the tubes.

And as much as I hate to do it, my all male hap/peacock tank is loving the culled fry.


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## AlphaWild (Apr 9, 2009)

That's rather intereseting MalawiLover. What was the average number of "good" fry vs. "culls" in that 4th generation?


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## MalawiLover (Sep 12, 2006)

I am getting about 60% that I consider sellable. Lots of them start out looking promissing, but then the black doesn't continue to grow as the fish does and it becomes a very thin line in the dorsal. Of course for the breeding program I am only taking the best 2-3 in each brood.It is pretty small scale as I am currently only using 3 females and 2 males. I prefer to use my females and then bring in really nice males (sometimes just as a loaner), but that doesn't always work.


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