# Buttifokeri tilapia



## eyann (Aug 21, 2017)

I fell in love with this fish at my LFS and got 4 of them (small, about 2.5 inches each) in my empty 75 gal tank. (which was supposed to welcome a Daffodil colony but i guess i will have to get a new tank  )
I know the buttis get HUGE and i know that eventually i'm gonna have to update my tank for a 120. But it's not the question.

From what i saw online, it seems that people use to keep only one of them in a dedicated tank, i didn't see any species tank, with like, 5 or 6 buttis together, sometimes a pair but it's even rare to see that.

Do you guys think that it's not possible to keep 4 of them together whenever they get big? I read here and there people saying that you need 75 gallon per butti, which is, in my opinion a little bit extreme, considering that you'd need a 300 gallon tank to keep just 4 of them. I know they get huge, but i guess they grow following the size of the tank, i don't think they can reach 16 inches in a 75 gal, can they? Most of the time, i read that they barely reach 10 inches after 3/4 years.

PS: they're small, but they're already super messy, and what's interesting is that they stay together, doing exactly the same thing, "sleeping" in the same spot and making a mess all together at the same time


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## james1983 (Dec 23, 2007)

Fish dont grow to the size of their tank, instead their growth stunts causing a shorter life and a whole lot of other problems. Butti's are usually kept alone because they have a rep for murdering tank mates even in larger aquariums. Look around on monsterfishkeepers.com, alot of people there keep them.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I really think that some of the people who came up with these scientific names had the sense of humor of a 12 year old boy lol.


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## eyann (Aug 21, 2017)

Finally, i found one: 



My LFS guy told me that if they grow together, they might be able to get along when they reach a decent size, except if two of them pair up (which is apparently possible quite fast). We haven't been able to sex them anyway, so we'll see. 
One thing is true in my opinion, but i'm not sure yet, is that if you don't feed them live food and if they remain together with no other species, they tend to be less aggressive than a butti fed with live food and surrounded by other aggressive cichlids, but again, we'll see in a couple of months if they are still so friendly to each others. So far so good, if only they could stay so colorful!


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## Ichthys (Apr 21, 2016)

Put some pictures up, they can be sexed from 2.5".

When they mature all **** will break out and there will be deaths. They cannot be kept together unless the tank is big enough for them to escape the territories of the most dominant. Given that their beeeding territory is the size of a small room, you'll need a huge tank. I had a breeding pair in a 180(US). A single fish will not tolerate others in that size tank.
If the tank is big enough they'll reach maturity within a year, at about 8-10" or so.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

eyann said:


> My LFS guy told me that if they grow together, they might be able to get along when they reach a decent size,


I think that is more then wishful thinking. A 75 is a small tank for buttikoferi. One of the very most aggressive cichlids, and like just about any cichlid, very high conspecific aggression.
Even large pairs, I have never seen them kept with out dividers as they are generally compatible only for the duration of a spawn.
Not to say your 4 won't co-exist for some time (it may or may not) and much more likely if you happen to get 4 females. Very doubtful a male will get along for very long.
IME, the fish grows very fast and gets highly aggressive with in a year from purchase.
I wouldn't make too much about the video. In the comment section, the person who posted the video says they are not his fish and it's taken at an "exhibition", what ever that actually means. None of these look to be anywhere near full grown. Like any species group you need a lot to squash aggression and doesn't always work out well over the longer term. I'm sure somebody has kept very large groups in very large tanks with some success, at least for a while, though I can't say I have really ever heard of it.


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## Ichthys (Apr 21, 2016)

I don't mean to be a troll, but Pictus cats need to be kept in a group.


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## Ichthys (Apr 21, 2016)

I've seen (on MFK) a large pair kept with a pair of dovii, but that is an exception as the tank really was the size of a small room. The situation was no doubt more of an equally matched standoff than actual peaceful intentions.

My pair was an anomaly... completely peaceful towards each other at all times, breeding and otherwise. They were also totally peaceful towards me, even with eggs or fry, although I always respected them enough to not try to get between them and their family. They were a wild caught pair, and the male was brutal to start with, but as soon as the male realised the female could get into a pipe that he couldn't, total blissful peace broke out, that continued for as long as I had them.


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## eyann (Aug 21, 2017)

> I don't mean to be a troll, but Pictus cats need to be kept in a group.


That could explain why he is so crazy all the time... A friend of my wife gave him to me a few months ago, i've never been a fan of cat fish but i must say that they are really interesting looking. But seriously, sometimes he makes me sad, he is swimming like crazy at least 20/24. Maybe i should offer him two mates but i'm gonna be short in space in that tank... They are all very kind with him, especially the JD. They must think he is kind of slow or something lol.


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## eyann (Aug 21, 2017)

Here are some pictures, as they stay along together, it was hard to shoot them one by one!


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

The best you can hope for is a pair kept alone. They are cute schooling now, like puppies, when they sexually mature they will get much more serious... no more play. That video of a crowded tank has to be from a zoo or public aquarium, probably a huge special tank.


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## eyann (Aug 21, 2017)

Yep, starting today! strangely, this morning, the bigger one seems pissed... He (or she) is chasing the 3 other ones constantly, and (s)he seems completely different from yesterday. I thought it was just because of the feeding time, but nope, it's been a couple of hours that the tank is divided: the 3 smaller ones hiding around and the bigger one bullying. Well... good first week  
PS: it doesn't really show on the pics, but the bigger one size is a good 2.5 while the 3 other ones are not longer than 2 inches. First we thought that the bigger one was a male and the 3 other were females. It might be right, but in that case, the male seems really nuts already


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## Ichthys (Apr 21, 2016)

They're quite thin, thinner than usual for tank raised at that size. Nothing to worry about tho. They're mainly herbivorous in nature but are very greedy and will eat anything.

When young got to 2.5" sex differences became apparent. Males get a wider mouth and a ski-jump shape to the face, in profile. They look a bit duck-billed(?) compared to females. Also the leading male, development-wise, will become dominant.

The one with all the blue on your pics has the typical ski slope nose of a male. The others I'm not sure of, they're a bit small.


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## Ichthys (Apr 21, 2016)

Pictus cat kinda slow. That's a bit rich coming from a JD, lol.


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## eyann (Aug 21, 2017)

The one with all the blue on the pics is the one chasing the 3 others now, so i guess you're right. I just looked at him and yes, his mouth looks way more ducky than the others.

About the Pictus, do you think adding just one would make the difference? I love my JD, he is the master of the tank without any doubt, even the nasty salvini is staying away from him, but it's funny to see him being bothered by the cat fish all the time and not doing anything. If the salvini would do the same, he would kick her off the tank right away


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## Ichthys (Apr 21, 2016)

I'm a believer that less than 6 is not sufficient for a group, especially as most of the time in nature 'groups' are much bigger. Pictus are not suitable tankmates anyway for aggressive cichlids long term. They stay small so will be an easy target, and a group will just get in the way. They have their mad all-over-the-tank moments even as a group.


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## eyann (Aug 21, 2017)

I traded him, was the best to do i think... And i also traded the 4 butti. BTW the LFS i went to was very bad, when i went to get them back, telling them that i couldn't keep them in a 75gal, one of their staff guy told me that it was totally possible to keep a butti colony of 4/5 in a 75gal and that they grow up to 10 inches only in a tank. Well, apparently, he was not very well informed. (oh yeah, and he told me also that they are from south america lol)


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## Ichthys (Apr 21, 2016)

He was right in a way, as their growth will be stunted in a 75. He obviously knows his stuff if he thinks there are tilapiine fish native to the Americas, lol.

Shouldn't laugh really, as it's not funny when they give pathetic advice like this, and refuse to find out anything about the fish they sell. Half of all shops are like that unfortunately.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I agree ichthys, that's why I try to avoid the majority of LFS's these days. Out of the 100's in the Houston area, I trust only one! It's sad to see beautiful peacocks and haps getting shredded by Mbuna in a 20 gallon holding tank, ridiculously mislabeled fish or one that really irritates me is the "mixed Malawi" tank. I've seen everything from green terrors and JD's to Victorian hybrids in these things. The vast majority being ugly hybrids that people buy like crazy because they're cheap. It's ok though OP, I've had an LFS try to sell me a juvenile Dovii as a community fish. Of course I knew better and laughed while I was on my way out, but the most important thing to remember is, "never trust an LFS" and "always research before you buy."


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