# Great read in TFH July magazine by Ad Konings!!!!



## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

In the article Ad Konings believes Cyphotilapia is just One species as C.frontosa.

He states that over their 10 million year lineage with many rise and fall of lake levels there is no location that has 2 types of frontosa.This makes complete since that other species live together in the wild but do not recognize each other as the same species such as Tropheus dubousi and T.brichardi.

This is what most of us questioned all along and I will still just call them frontosa =D>


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## JasonTodd (Aug 5, 2011)

Hi all,

I have been out of the hobby for years. I used to post here years ago and stopped the hobby about the time it was decided to change the species names. I am curious why no one has commented on this post? It seems interesting and I would love to read the article. I am setting up a tank for my two year old and am excited to get some fronts again. Pics of my old Karilani are posted on the front map on this site. Any recommendations on some of the newly imported variants in the past five years or so?

Thanks,

Jason Todd
Lawrence, Kansas


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

In my opinion the whole taxonomy game is of purely academic interest without any relevance for the hobby. I can see how folks find it interesting to discuss the similarities and differences between different fish populations, but since the whole concept of species is more philosophical than scientific, there is often little more point to it than for an academic to produce yet aother paper to adorn his or her resume.

This isn't by any means meant to slam Ad Konings. Especially a TFH article would be written less for academics than for the general public, and would probably have well above average interest value. I bet Ad has some great photos to show as well :thumb:


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Have to agree with Frank here. At this point in time, taxonomy is almost an annoyance to hobbyists, trying to keep up with the names. Frank is right, the definition of species is philosophical at best. At exactly what point do two distinct populations become different species? Surely the suggestion that because there aren't (or are) two living together isn't a scientific principle. It must come down to genetic divergence.


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## JasonTodd (Aug 5, 2011)

My scientific prowess stems from high school and a couple undergrad classes that I slept through so I won't even attempt to sound educated in the matter. I can say that when I sold the last of my fronts years ago and stopped keeping fish my main issue was that I wasn't confident that the nomenclature being used in the hobby was being used properly by many breeders/importers. I saw the upcoming name changes to be an opportunity for unscrupulous sellers to take even more advantage potential buyers/hobbyists. Even if someone was not doing something "underhanded" the increase/change/inconsistency easily leads to improper identification. My first couple colonies came from a guy named Jeff Meredith in Ohio and I had a couple more from Russ Utsler years ago. I just talked with Russ a couple days ago and he is doing fine but out of the business as you all know. Again, does anyone have any suggestion for quality F1 Mpimbwe or F1 Kapampas?

Thanks and enjoy the day,

Jason


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## Catfish Dan (Apr 12, 2011)

Wow. What a great read. Thanks for posting! :thumb:


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## pkut (Feb 3, 2005)

You're welcome. I thought it would be nice for anyone interested to be able to read it.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

pkut said:


> You're welcome. I thought it would be nice for anyone interested to be able to read it.


I appreciate your good intentions. Unfortunately the article is the intellectual property of TFH and/or Ad Konings. Presumably this article was written to make you buy TFH magazine so you can read it. If you scan it and post it in an open forum to save people the trouble of buying the magazine, it's like stealing from TFH.

*pkut* - unless you can confirm that you have permission to post the article here, I am afraid we will have to take it down. Please let me know if you need assistance with that.

Many thanks for your understanding.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I've taken it down for now, but would be willing to put it back up, if there is proof that there is permission to post. Thanks


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## pkut (Feb 3, 2005)

I couldn't get a proof of permission to repost the article, so I guess it can't go back up for people to read. I understand the situation. I guess people will have to get the back issue of the magazine if they want to read the article. Sorry everyone.


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## fiupntballr (Jul 7, 2004)

I have to 1000000% disagree with frank. Taxonomy is very useful to hobbyists and should be considered a bit more IMHO. As hobbyists we have an opportunity to maintain and enjoy animals that come from the wild which have distinct evolutionary traits.... Just look at CARES as an example of the importance of taxonomy.


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

fiupntballr said:


> As hobbyists we have an opportunity to maintain and enjoy animals that come from the wild which have distinct evolutionary traits.... Just look at CARES as an example of the importance of taxonomy.


OK, this response comes a little late, but I have to 1000000% agree with that. I think CARES' goals of preserving biodiversity deserve every support we can give it. However, I don't think we should just keep different species separate to preserve their evolutionary traits, but any population of fish showing different features. To give a Frontosa example, if you have two colonies of fish, you certainly do not want to interbreed them if they are different species, for example Gibberosa and sp. North. But you also don't want to interbreed them if they are the same species, but from different collection points, for example Gibberosa 'Zaire' and Gibberosa 'Zambia'. Strictly speaking, Zaire and Zambia are not part of the scientific name, but both of those fish, scientifically, are _Cyphotilapia gibberosa_!

In that sense, it does not matter if fish are the same species and taxonomists give them different names or the same. To preserve biodiversity, we should keep fish separate that have been collected in different localities and/or show distinct evolutionary traits.

I hope this makes sense.


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