# Fish may be mating or fighting and I need help on what to do



## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi,
My electric yellow cichlids are fighting i know they lock jaws fighting for territory, but they also swim in circles biting each other in the lower back side. I don't know the gender of of both of them. I also have an electric blue ice-burg cichlid that does a weird swim towards one of the electric yellows. Also both the electric yellows swim strangely towards each other. any help would be great. Thanks.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

how many and of what type fish do you have and what size tank?

are there any injuries?

aggression goes with the territory when talking of mbuna but you may benefit from adding more fish to spread out the aggression


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

I see slight injuries. I have 3 fish in a 55 gallon tank. If I add more fish what type of fish should I add?


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

If you're not seeing one of the fish dropping an egg and then picking it up in her mouth, they're not mating.



Nick L. said:


> I have 3 fish in a 55 gallon tank. If I add more fish what type of fish should I add?


Depending on the species you pick and if you have enough rocks and filtration, you could put 3 species in groups of 4-5 in this tank.

I'm not familiar with the trade name "electric blue ice-burg cichlid."
Does it look like the pictures in this profile?
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1333

kevin


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Yes that is what my ice-burg looks like.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Then it's probably a Sciaenochromis fryeri, which is not a good fish for a 55. It gets a little too big and is a little too aggressive. In the wild it feeds on juvenile cichlids!

I would urge you to cash the fryeri in for whatever you can get and decide on two or three species you'd like to have in this tank.

Your electric yellows are likely Labidochromis caeruleus, which mix well with many Malawi cichlids, so they're a good start.

Have a look at these fish:

















kevin


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Ok thank you for the help, the people at the fish store i go to they say they would mix great, I guess not.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

In a bigger tank, maybe.

But they sure sell great!

Feel free to let us know what's available at your LFS, and we can suggest a few species that will mix well together and relieve your stress. An aquarium should be at least somewhat soothing...

kevin

P.S. you could start by getting 3 more electric yellows. Malawi mbuna aren't pairing fish, so these two will continue to beat the heck out of each other until something bad happens.


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

ok if i sell the Sciaenochromis fryeri i will only have the two electric yellows and ill get more electric yellows. Any other species that will go good with my yellows?


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

I would suggest demasoni they great for a blue color and they go great with the labs only problem is you'll have to get about 12 to start off with these were my first africans and there great fish and breed easy now I know that some will say that dems are to agressive but I would like to disagree since I have never had any agression issues with them but hey I guss everybodys experience is different and I do consider myself one of the lucky few


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

I know what fish you are talking about they are one of my favorites but they did say they are aggressive. 12 are ok in a 55 gallon tank?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Nick L. said:


> I know what fish you are talking about they are one of my favorites but they did say they are aggressive. 12 are ok in a 55 gallon tank?


Less than 12 will end up being one - get 12-15 if you get them. They stay small and don't need the tank length the Sciaenochromis fryeri.

The are *very* aggressive to each other or other blue barred fish in the tank - they will ignore everyone else.

If you can post a list of fish you have available we could help a lot more - I would bet good money there are people here who have been keeping fish since before the store clerk was born.


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

I would suggest demasoni they great for a blue color and they go great with the labs only problem is you'll have to get about 12 to start off with these were my first africans and there great fish and breed easy now I know that some will say that dems are to agressive but I would like to disagree since I have never had any agression issues with them but hey I guss everybodys experience is different and I do consider myself one of the lucky few


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

@ goofboy so it will level out the violence in my tank?
@ gus211 so is there a chance if i put them in it could get worse?


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

By the way in my tank i have 2 yellow labs and 1 sciaenochromis fryeri


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Nick L. said:


> @ goofboy so it will level out the violence in my tank?


Doing a tank with:

5 - Electric Yellow Labs (Labidochromis caeruleus)
15 - Lil' Demons (Pseudotropheus demasoni)
5 - Rusties (Iodotropheus sprengerae)

Would be a great stock list. There are many more combos.

I say 15 of the Lil' Demons - because I would return the first three that showed the most aggression/dominance to thin the males. But I tend to be more conservative.

Good Luck.


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Ok thank you. Any chance of them breeding?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Nick L. said:


> Ok thank you. Any chance of them breeding?


With that stock list I mentioned? - About 100%.


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Wow cool so when or if they breed do i need another tank?


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

I don't think ur agression will get worse with the dems but you will have to re home ur fryer since they will not get along at all since there both blue with stripes also the combination with the rustys would look great but I would suggest yellow tail acei since there also peacefull and the blue and yellow combo would look great with labs and dems kinda tie it all up but hey to each there own right and basically its ur tank ur the one who has to look at it so my advise would be get something you like and something you'd be happy seeing every day for the next 5 years oh and by the way ur always gonna have a little aggression especially if ur just starting off but things get easier and fun a lot of fun once you get the hang of it


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

my dad is setting up a 100 gallon tank will my fryeri go good in it?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Wow cool so when or if they breed do i need another tank?


Or you will let nature take its course and let the Moms release in the main tank.

Or Tank*s* if you want fry - the first few batches are really cool - but trust me, voice of experience here, you will want to add a fry patrol to the tank as you will be overrun with an mbuna setup like this if you try to raise/save them all.


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

what is a fry patrol?


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

Fry are fun but as goof boy suggested u will be over run by them and yes ur fryeri would do fine in that tank and if you want to raise fry ull need at least a ten gallon grow out tank with a sponge filter also a fry patrol is just a fish or a pleco or catfish that will eat the new fry


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

If i put in a pleco will it eat all the fry because i want some fry in my tank to try and breed.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Nick L. said:


> If i put in a pleco will it eat all the fry because i want some fry in my tank to try and breed.


Mbuna (these fish we are talking) about are mouth brooders. Do you understand what that means? If not read this.

Adding 3 Synodontis multipunctatus catfish to your tank would eliminate 99% of the naturally released fry in the tank - letting nature take its course.

The other adult fish will also eat the fry but catfish are particularly good at it.

You can always pull a holding female out and either strip her or let her release on her own in a separate 'fry tank' if you want to save any fry.


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Oh these fish are mouth brooders. Ok I kinda wanna breed so i wont put in the plecos or catfish.


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

Either way wether you have plecos or not ur other mbunas will eat the fry so for the best survival rate the best thing to do is strip the holding mom after about 3 weeks into a different fry tank


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Ok sounds like a good plan so i should set up a maternity tank


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

Yup


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Your fish will breed whether you want them to or not, don't worry about that. Without the catfish, you will have too many survivors to fit in your tank. With GoofBoy's list you could have 260 fry every 8 weeks or 1500 annually. So you see why you need a fry control plan.

If you want to start a business and save all fry, you will need a bunch (at least 3) of fry tanks. You can't mix fry of different sizes since they will eat each other. You might break even, you need to devote a lot of time to it, and you don't want to decorate your breeding tank (takes too long to remove 100-200 pounds of rocks every other week to catch the holding moms).

If you want to see an occasional survivor, this will still happen with the catfish.

If you want to raise a whole batch of fry occasionally, which is what I do, then once a year or whenever you feel like it, remove all the rocks, catch all the holding moms, and strip the fry into the one fry tank. It will take 6 months or more to grow them out, and then your fry tank will be available for another batch if you want.


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Ok so if i add a pleco or catfish and that eliminates some of the fry will they be safe from my filter?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Nick L. said:


> Ok so if i add a pleco or catfish and that eliminates some of the fry will they be safe from my filter?


Huh?


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Ok. Lets say I do get fry, will my filter be a problem?


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Depends on what kind of filter you have. If it's a sponge filter, no problem. But I doubt you're running a sponge in a 55.
Power filters (HOB), canisters and sumps can all suck fry in through the intake/overflow if the fry swim too close. This will happen. If you think it's a concern, let us know what filters you use - I'm sure the members can suggest modifications that can prevent it from happening to some degree.

And an alternate experience on some of the previous posts, I have had my saulosi spit in my tank at least a dozen times since March. My tank only has a few hiding spots for fry - none have made it to adulthood. They get to be about 1/2 inch, then they get brave...then one day they're gone.

kevin


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Nick L. said:


> Ok. Lets say I do get fry, will my filter be a problem?


If the fry are out in the open - the filter will be the least of their problem in the main tank.

Not sure why you are you stuck on this?

If you want fry, net the holding female - put her in a fry tank to release the 15-40 fry, net her and put her back in the main tank after she releases.

You do not want many fry to survive in the main tank - you will be overrun with them if they do.

Please re-read DJRansome's note on numbers of fry which will be produced.

What would you do with 1500 extra fish?


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

my filter is a 304 fluval as a filter. So if i get a fry tank I would put the female in there? That sounds better than getting overrun by fish.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

In your show tank, the fry will be hiding in tiny cracks away from the filter flow. But they can get sucked into the filter, yes. We find them there alive and well when cleaning the filter. :lol:

In a fry tank either use a sponge filter or put a sponge over the filter intake to protect the fry. A fry tank is a good idea. Dont forget to cycle it. Put the fry tank filter in or on the main tank to grow bacteria as soon as you see a mom fish holding. 18 days later it will be ready to move to the fry tank with the mother.


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## iplaywithemotions (Dec 18, 2008)

I have Yellow Labs, Demasonis, and albino Greshakeis in a 55 gallon; I have not witnessed any aggression as of yet. The Dems are, however, still fairly young, and are only 1" in size. From what I've read on here, is that they tend to get aggressive amongst each other once they reach 2-3" inches.

It's recommended that you start with a group of at *least* 12-15 Dems. However, I've also read stories on here from people who have purchased as many as 20, and they still lost most of them due to aggression and wound up with only about 8 within a week or two. Basically, purchasing a large number of Dems is more likely to help spread their aggression and prevent casualties, but it is obviously no guarantee.


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## loffy74 (Sep 28, 2008)

i think they are asking , whats available at the Local fish store.
so they can help you pick some compatiable africans for your yellow labs


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Ok the fish store I go to was running low so i got a few that you guys mentioned and ordered some I got 2 yellow tail acei and 1 bumblebee cichlid (does anyone know any info on this fish? the guy said it would work out in my tank) and i ordered 15 lil' demons and 5 rusties and 3 yellow labs and 3 more yellow tail acei. My Sciaenochromis fryeri will have to stay while i get my 100 gallon set up. Thanks for all the help guys anything else I should do? other than get a fry patrol forgot that.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Nick L. said:


> Ok the fish store I go to was running low so i got a few that you guys mentioned and ordered some I got 2 yellow tail acei and 1 bumblebee cichlid (does anyone know any info on this fish? the guy said it would work out in my tank) and i ordered 15 lil' demons and 5 rusties and 3 yellow labs and 3 more yellow tail acei. My Sciaenochromis fryeri will have to stay while i get my 100 gallon set up. Thanks for all the help guys anything else I should do? other than get a fry patrol forgot that.


Let's summarize:
2 Labidochromis caeruleus, 3 to come.
2 Pseudotropheus sp. "acei," 3 to come.
15 Pseudotropheus demasoni to come.
5 Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusties) to come.
1 Pseudotropheus crabro (Bumblebee).
1 Sciaenochromis fryeri.

Perhaps this should have been mentioned more than once, but a 55 gallon tank is good for three species. You're looking at six. I realize the fryeri is leaving, but until it has left, it's still there to cause trouble.



Nick L. said:


> 1 bumblebee cichlid (does anyone know any info on this fish? the guy said it would work out in my tank)


Is this the same guy that told you the fryeri would work out in your 55? I hope so, because if not it means there are at least *two* stupid employees at your LFS.
The crabro is one of the more boisterous and violent cichlids available. Maybe behind Metriaclima lombardoi (Kenyi) and Melanochromis auratus. Hint: don't let anyone at your LFS sell you these fish next.

I would advise you to take the bumblebee back tomorrow.

I would advise you to keep this tank at four species. For best odds, I would keep the Rusties on order as they are generally a peaceful fish, and cancel the demasoni order. If you're really keen on the demasoni, cancel the Rusties.

Please trust me when I say if you're new to this whole cichlid racket, you really want to only keep 3 species in this tank. Pushing this hard this soon will cause frustration and lack of enjoyment for you, and death for some of your fish - maybe not in the next 6 months, but by the end of the summer I can guarantee it.

kevin


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Ok thank you for clarifying this no it wasn't the same guy that told me about the fryeri but I will keep to only 3 species thank you ill never listen to those guys at the shop anymore.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

Good call. There may in fact be someone at your store who knows a thing or two about Malawi cichlids, you just haven't found him yet.

Good luck and stay strong. I know it's hard not to buy all these beautiful fish, but you really will be happy with three well-picked species in this tank.

kevin


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd keep these:

2 Labidochromis caeruleus, 3 to come. 
15 Pseudotropheus demasoni to come. 
5 Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusties) to come.

I'd return the acei and cancel the order. They are bigger fish and like to be in large groups. The others will fit better in your 55G.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

I have no argument with that advice. I'm writing and watching a bike race at the same time, and I forgot that Acei get big and get big fast. They could work in this tank but DJRansome's picks are solid.

kevin


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Ok thanks guys. When I get m tank settled should i get a fry patrol fish? And @ ridley25 the store i used to go to closed down they were great they knew it all about cichlids. I have to settle for this other store now.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Well you are not likely to have hybrids. But if you do not want any additional fish in your tank it would be a good idea. I like synodontis multipunctatus best for fry control, get a group of 3-5.


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Would a pleco work? and how big do the acei get?


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

Well aceis do get big but you have to remember that he has a 100 gallon his setting up as well plus I've kept 4 species in 55 and they have thrived for more than 8 months also the acei are doing fine in my tank but like I said before ur the one who has to look at this tank every day so pick what you like from those 4 species I do recomend only having 3 species since ur bearly starting off just remember its ur tank stock it with what you like most but stay away from all those that ridley mentioned there killers in a tank that size


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

yeah tha'ts what I'm thinking wait till they get big then put them in my 100 gallon once it is set up.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

gus211 said:


> Well aceis do get big but you have to remember that he has a 100 gallon his setting up as well


Not to argue Acei couldn't work in this tank as one of three species, because they would, but I don't count tanks that aren't set up yet. Until they exist in reality, they don't exist in my advice.

But I'm a careful guy.

kevin


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

In general the types of plecos that do well with mbuna do not eat fry. I'm thinking about bristlenose.

The acei get to be about 7 inches and like to be in groups of 5-6. Since you had to lose one species and that one was the most troublesome in a 55G I suggested losing the acei.


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

bristlenose eat fry? Oh wow ok I will get rid of the acei and go with the rusties. Thanks for the info.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No, sorry, BN do not eat fry. I thought you were looking for fry patrol and wanted to try a pleco. I'm saying that's not likely to work.


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Oh ok. Yeah i wanted to try a pleco but would catfish also work?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think I lost your question. Are you asking for fry patrol?


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> I think I lost your question. Are you asking for fry patrol?


Yes


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Pleco will not work, synodontis multipunctatus WILL work. They like to be in a group of 5-6.


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Ok thanks. One of my yellow labs isn't looking to good he is still alive but on the bottom laying on his side, though he did manage to straiten himself up. Do you know what happened?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you want the lab to live, put him in a cycled hospital tank and observe for symptoms.

What are the pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in your tank?

If he was fine yesterday and on the bottom today, there may be a problem in your tank or he might have been sick when you got him. If the fish have been chasing him around for a couple days, maybe today is the day he just gave up. You have an aggressive mix.


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

How do I set up a hospital tank? I'm going to check my ammonia, nitrate and nitrite tonight, but my PH is around 7.4. It's actually the aggressive lab that is sick.


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## ridley25 (Jan 5, 2008)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/t ... t_tips.php


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## Nick L. (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks ridley25.


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