# Starting a 180 gallon in Thailand



## capp (Jun 7, 2013)

Hey folks. It has been a good long while since I have posted here, I have been out of the aquarium thing for a few years after a move where I had to cut lose my several tanks and then a move across the Pacific to beautiful Thailand with only 2 suitcases and a backpack.

I'm settled here now into a place where I feel at home and plan to stay for a while and I miss having fish. Also Aquarium stuff is insanely cheap here. What is available is limited but amazing prices I was looking at a brand new 7 foot 180 gallon with stand tank and light hood for about 150 bucks US. I saw a used one for half that. I have always wanted really big tank and this seems like the time to do it.

My main question right now is about filtration. The tanks I'm looking at have dual corner overflows built in, about 6"x6" on each side. They are set up to put a big powerhead in the bottom of the overflow to push the water back in to the main tank after it flows down through a few layers of filter media. I'd really like to keep this simple as possible, so I'm hoping that between the 2 overflows there would be enough filter capacity for a decently stocked mbuna or peacock tank.

For decor I'm thinking of going with a sunken temple sort of theme, stone veneer glued to the back of the tank and broken statuary piled up as rockwork.

Pretty excited about this tank, I miss having the fishes around.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

WOW, $150 for a 180G tank? That is insanely cheap! How much are fish and how easy are they to get?

A wet/dry or trickle filter is the best choice for such a large tank so you are in good shape. You will most likely need some sort of sump for the filter media unless it comes with tank. Most ppl use a smaller aquarium for this. What kind of overflows are they? Drilled? Boxes? Wall?

Properly setup and maintained this tank should be able to house a large amount of mbuna!


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

you should have enough room in those corners for some sponge and ceramic rings to handle a pretty heavily stocked tank. For reference my filter media in my sump fits in a 6x16x8 comparment handling 30 midsized (3-8") haps and peacocks in a 180.


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## capp (Jun 7, 2013)

Overall everything you can get is super cheap but you just don't have a lot of selection available.

Fish are super cheap, but most fish stores have only a tank of Oscars, a few mini tanks of Jack Dempseys and the a big tank of assorted cichlids. Assorted means really assorted mbunas, peacocks weird hybrids all mixed together. Supposedly there are a few speciality shops up in Bangkok but I almost never make it up there. Thinking of doing a trip to shop around once my tank is up and cycled.

The corner filters are usually just square glass corners siliconed in, sometimes bent acrylic corners. For that size tank they are generally about 6"x6" or 8"x8". mostly set up with a hole drilled close to the bottom and a fitting set up to stick a powerhead on it. then there will be little plastic blocks glued inside the overflow to put shelves of plastic grates to separate a couple layers of media. Most have a top layer of plastic filter batting, then maybe a layer of plastic bioballs or ceramic rings. It seems to me that so long as I had big enough powerheads down in there i ought to have a enough flow.

Small tanks are cheap enough that getting one for a sump is not really a problem, but I'd really rather keep it simple.


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## stayfrosty (Mar 31, 2011)

Isn't wuddy in Thailand. He has nice fish check it out on a fish bidding site pm for site


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

capp said:


> Overall everything you can get is super cheap but you just don't have a lot of selection available.
> 
> Fish are super cheap, but most fish stores have only a tank of Oscars, a few mini tanks of Jack Dempseys and the a big tank of assorted cichlids. Assorted means really assorted mbunas, peacocks weird hybrids all mixed together. Supposedly there are a few speciality shops up in Bangkok but I almost never make it up there. Thinking of doing a trip to shop around once my tank is up and cycled.
> 
> ...


Ok, so they are like corner filters? They don't actually overflow out of the tank? Those should work tho. Put a 1000GPH powerhead on each one and you should be ok.

I would definitely take a trip to bangkok if you can, buying from the 'assorted cichlid' tank can be risky. Really don't know what you're going to get.

If I were you I would make this an all male hpa/peacock tank. In a tank that size you can keep some cool, larger haps that just won't fit in a smaller tank. If you like the mbunas you could throw a group of yellow labs in there too.


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## capp (Jun 7, 2013)

You are correct they are corner boxes that the main tank overflows into and then they are set up already for a powerhead to pump water through a bulkhead already installed down in the bottom of the corner box.

I do like to try different things though and I had a crazy idea of using one corner box as most do here, but then turning the second one into a fluidized sand bed by putting the powerhead on the outside so water flows in at the bottom and out from the top, and making a little PVC pipe gizmo on the inside to spread the water flow around a bit to get even sand movement. It seems like it could really boost my bio filtering without having to go for a sump.

Maybe overthinking it but I used to love having my tanks well over-filtered and piling the fish in 

Hap/peacock is where I'm leaning at this point though if I could find some good N. Pulchers I'd do a tank based around them, I love having a big colony of those guys going, my favorite fish overall. Hard to keep anything else with them once they have the colony going though. They gang up on other fish like a pack of wolves.


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## capp (Jun 7, 2013)

Ok quick sketch of the idea i'm thinking of:

On the left side is how the corner overflow filters are usually set up here, water flows in the top, drops through a few layers of different media, then a powerhead pumps it back into the main tank. On the right is my crazy half formed idea, powerhead on the outside, pumping into the bottom of the corner box and up through a bed of filter sand.

Seems I could get best of both worlds with this. Top skimming and funk filtered out from the one side and massive bio-filtering on the other. With maybe some piping and undergravel jets on the output from the traditional side I could have a nice system with almost everything hidden away in the corner boxes and under gravel/behind rocks.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

fluidized sand bed shouldn't be necessary.


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## capp (Jun 7, 2013)

lilscoots said:


> fluidized sand bed shouldn't be necessary.


You would say both sides running with 1000 to 2000 L/Hr powerheads should give enough filtration for a somewhat heavily stocked Mbuna or hap/peacock or 'assorted' cichlid tank? The rule of thumb of 4 times tank volume per hour puts me at about 2700 L/Hr, but I do prefer to overfilter than underfilter.

I'm thinking of doing the 'slightly overcrowded so no one can set up a territory' thing. Lots of movement and lots of color all in front of a reddish sandstone or laterite sort of backdrop, again with the broken statuary theme for the rockwork. Not a lot of rockwork though, as I understand the overcrowded thing works best with less hiding places.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm saying the space you have should be able to hold enough beneficial bacteria to convert the ammonia the fish are producing to nitrate in a safe amount of time. The proposed flow you suggest is about half what I run in the same volume tank. Sponge and ceramic rings are what I use for mech and bio filtering, and have a similar volume of that to what you'd have in your corners. I never have issues with ammonia/nitrite, but I do need to do 75% water changes weekly to manage the nitrate.


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

Ya, I would aim for around 8 times per hour. That would probably be the max tho as you don't have a huge filter media volume and you want to make sure that the water has enough time to come in contact with the beneficial bacteria. I would probably put a 3000LH pump on each filter.


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## capp (Jun 7, 2013)

OK, cool thanks for the advice. Luckily I have not yet bought a tank so I am not locked into anything yet. I may even ask around a bit about ordering a tank pre-drilled for a sump set up. I used to run canisters on everything back at home before and I guess in a way a sump is sort of like a big ass canister, lol.

If I did go for a sump after all should I still be shooting for that 5500-6000 L/Hr or go higher?

Certainly happy I started digging in for advice before actually making a purchase. As I plan on this being my one and only tank I want to make sure to dial this one in right. I'll try to take some pictures as I tank shop.


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## capp (Jun 7, 2013)

Had another crazy idea.

I'm planning on an unusual orientation of the tank in my room, set up with the short end against the wall and a shelving unit behind the tank. Want to use it as sort of a room divider. Got me thinking that I would have easy access to the back of the tank and also a place to put a sump that is level with the tank. Then I could use siphon action to move water into the sump from the tank and not worry about overflows in a power outage, when the water stops being pumped back into the tank everything will stop when the levels equalize.

I sort of hate crawling around down under the tank to work on stuff anyway, this will put the sump stuff right at eye level for observation and tuning/tinkering/maintenance. The space the sump will be sort of sharing is not gonna be a pretty space, near homebrewing and general storage space.


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## CichlidShizz (Dec 9, 2012)

Just make sure your sump is lower than your tank so the water can siphon from the tank to the sump!


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## clhinds78 (Jul 27, 2012)

capp said:


> Had another crazy idea.
> 
> I'm planning on an unusual orientation of the tank in my room, set up with the short end against the wall and a shelving unit behind the tank. Want to use it as sort of a room divider. Got me thinking that I would have easy access to the back of the tank and also a place to put a sump that is level with the tank. Then I could use siphon action to move water into the sump from the tank and not worry about overflows in a power outage, when the water stops being pumped back into the tank everything will stop when the levels equalize.
> 
> I sort of hate crawling around down under the tank to work on stuff anyway, this will put the sump stuff right at eye level for observation and tuning/tinkering/maintenance. The space the sump will be sort of sharing is not gonna be a pretty space, near homebrewing and general storage space.


I'm not so sure that is the best placement for a sump. As cichlidshizz said they sump needs to be below the water level of your main tank in order to maintain a syphon. You could make your shelves lower, but that kind of negates the point of having them in the first place.

As far as sump flow rate you can go higher since there is more filter volume. If you plan to have a fully stocked Lake Malawi tank fo this size sump is the way to go.


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## capp (Jun 7, 2013)

The sump does not have to be lower. It just cannot be higher. Siphon movement occurs because the water levels are trying to equalize. If one end had to be lower, HOB overflow boxes using U-tubes would not work.



The fact that everything is level seems one of the great advantages doing it this way ought to provide. So long as the system is not overfilled and the u-tube is not blocked, there should be no way for a flood to occur. When the the system is powered up, the water coming into the main tank raises the level so it overflows into the corner box. The u-tube then tries to equalize the levels and flow starts through the u-tube into the sump. When the system loses power, overflow stops and the levels equalize between the corner box and the sump. I have breif power cuts fairly often so response to a power cut is pretty important to me.

I guess it is sort of a pseudo-sump as the word sump implies it is a place at the bottom where liquid flows down to and collects, so maybe the name for this idea is the Side By Side Psuedo Sump (SBSPS)


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## capp (Jun 7, 2013)

Here is a more detailed sketch of where my thoughts are running now. It allows me maximum flexibility in choosing a tank, no drilling required, provides mega filtration, simple water changing and no fear of power cuts. I know I don't _need_ a FSB but I'm sort of fascinated by the concept and I want to try one.


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## capp (Jun 7, 2013)

Well a lot of this discussion has become moot. I was out shopping for some other furniture yesterday and found a tank that was such a deal I cold not pass it up. Not the huge tank I was dreaming of, but I was starting to reconsider going that huge anyway, that big everything sort of scales up to some startling numbers when you start doing the figures.

The tank is an 85 gallon, I got it for about 40 bucks US. Tank stand and hood all delivered. The light needs a new tube but I think I'm going to rip out the fluorescent and install a LED setup. Lots of custom shops here that do LED signs and LED car lights, so it's kind of cheap and easy to get LED stuff made.

One end of the tank is taken up by a sort of strange built in wet/dry filter setup. I'm gonna go ahead and start a new thread to cover the refurb and setup.


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## capp (Jun 7, 2013)

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=282737


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