# New Tank, Ammonia Reading .50, help?



## Oscarmeyer321 (Jul 23, 2010)

Hey everyone, I started a thread a few days ago on my newly setup 210 freshwater aquarium.

I have been using bacteria the past three days and today was my last day for the cycle.

My testing has indicated the following using API's Freshwater Master Test Kit:

Ammonia: .50

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 10

PH: 7.3-7.5

I am only on day 3 and all fish are full of life and eat well.

I have not done any water changes yet since this was my last day of adding the bacteria cycle.

Should I re-test water in the morning and if the same, perform a 30% water change?

Should I be concerned with my testing as of now?

Any/All help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank You.


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## kinesis (Aug 20, 2009)

What do you mean by "been using bateria"? If you're getting .50 ammonia, you're definetly not on your last day of cycle. How have you been cycling your tank?

To save your fish, you should do large water changes daily until you have completed your cycle.


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## Gervahlt (Jun 25, 2009)

I've never cycled a tank using the bottled bacteria. I've heard mixed reviews about it and I'm not sure I would trust my fish to them. That being said, cycling a tank with fish in it like you have, I'd certainly do a 50-75% water change to try to keep their ammonia burns to a minimum at this point. I'd continue to do 50% changes every day going forward as well until the testing showed 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites with noticeable nitrate conversion.

Maybe that reading is normal with your bottled product, but it sure doesn't sound like something that is safe for your fish to be swimming in right now.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

With that trace a reading for ammonia, no nitrites, and low nitrates...
Sounds pretty good to me for only being 3 days into your W/fish cycle.
I would be plenty satisfied with the specs you posted.
What product did you use?
I would continue testing and do a water change, 50% or so, if the ammonia started to climb.
Same if nitrites started to show, or nitrates went above 30-40ppm.
Overall, you seem on track for a good outcome.
Good luck.


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## DGT (Mar 28, 2010)

KaiserSousay said:


> With that trace a reading for ammonia, no nitrites, and low nitrates...
> Sounds pretty good to me for only being 3 days into your W/fish cycle.
> I would be plenty satisfied with the specs you posted.
> 
> ...


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

*Ammonia: .50

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 10

PH: 7.3-7.5

I am only on day 3 and all fish are full of life and eat well. *

Those are pretty good numbers.

*I wouldn't be satisfied. *

Guess I am just easy to please.
:roll:


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## DGT (Mar 28, 2010)

Why no nitrites??


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Seems you have 2 possible scenarios... 
1 : no biological filtration, and tap water has 10ppm nitrate. 
2 : bio filtration is on-the-spot with nitrite->nitrate, but ammonia nitrite-> hasn't quite caught up to full capacity yet.

A simple nitrate test on the tap water should let you know which scenario is playing out...

FWIW my tank reads 2ppm ammonia, 0 nitrite, ~15ppm nitrate. But then my tapwater reads 0/0/15... I'm in case 1 . Thankfully I have no fish in that tank 

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who is sure he must have missed a possible scenario, but who would do a tapwater nitrate test anyways)


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

DGT said:


> Why no nitrites??


1. The nitrifying bacteria are in place and doing the job Ã¢â‚¬â€œ also explains the nitrate readings.
2. The nitrifying bacteria havenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t colonized the tank yet Ã¢â‚¬â€œ the nitrates came from the tap as you suggest.

...oops, Rick beat me to it.


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## DGT (Mar 28, 2010)

I think you guys have the possible senarios correct. These measurements are taken three days into establishing the cycle. The ammonia to nitrite bacteria should establish first since it is their food source that is present first. The nitrite to nitrate bacteria establish later when nitrites are present from the first bacteria. The progression should be as below where #3 is a completed cycle. The numbers from the OP most closely match #1, except for the nitrates. A test of the source water is in order.

1. NH3 - some nominal value, in this case .5.
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0

2. NH3 - decreasing to 0
NO2 - increasing
NO3 - 0

3. NH3 - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - increasing

Dave


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

He's been using "bacteria in a bottle", which clearly contained insufficient bacteria for the bioload that he has in the tank at the moment. If the bacteria are really there (but in insufficient quantities) then I'd expect to see some ammonia, zero nitrite, and some nitrate. He's got enought nitrite-eating bacteria to eat whatever his ammonia-eating produce, but just not enough ammonia-eating bacteria to eat all the ammonia. He might not ever have measurable nitrite if his bacteria-in-a-bottle works out for him, but I'd expect a steady decrease of ammonia to 0 over the next couple of days in that case.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who is leery of bacteria-in-a-bottle, but who shouldn't throw stones since he has a bottle of Tetra SafeStart on top of his aquarium, waiting for him to find a bottle of ammonia without surfactants)


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## DGT (Mar 28, 2010)

I can see your logic there Rick. I don't have any personal experience with the bacteria products and have avoided them since the conventional wisdom seems to be they are not effective. In this situation, I would check the tap water for nitrates, do water changes to keep the ammonia under control, and continue to test the water for all three to see where things are going. I guess we sure beat this one to death!!


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## Oscarmeyer321 (Jul 23, 2010)

Thanks goes out to everyone's comments and advice.

This is now my 4th day cycling my tank with the fish in my signature.

I have been using Nutrafin Cycle recommended by my lfs and now have seen many mixed reviews. About 50% love Nutrafin Cycle and 50% are not fond of it.

*Here are my test results Today:*

Ammonia: .50

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 10

PH: 7.3-7.5

Temp: 76-84. Temperature is honestly the HARDEST thing for me to calculate so far. I have a heater with a built in thermostat and temp gauge. It is set for 80 degrees. It cycles on and off and when I think it satisfies, the temp on the heater constantly reads between 76 and 78.

I also have a magnetic temp gauge on the bottom left of my fish tank. That temp gauge has been reading 84 degrees!!! The last temp gauge I have is a sticky l.e.d and it reads between 82 and 84 degrees as well.

Is there a certain spot to put your heater and or temp gauges? I know 82-84 degrees is a little high if the bottom two gauges are accurate. The funny thing is that my heater with built in temp gauge always satisfies, then turns back on to keep the temp consistent and it never reads what I set my dial too.

Where should my temp be and is there a certain spot I should place my temp gauges? I do not want to fry my fish although they seem to be thriving and happier than ever.

The only fish I am slightly concerned about is my 2 day old red devil. He has one small black spot on the end tip of his tail. I've been told it most likely stress. It is not a growth(s), and is not white, just a simple black spot. Is this something I should be concerned about? Can the high ammonia levels be causing this, or is my fish just stressed?

I am going to perform a 50% water change like everyone suggested right now after I feed my fish. I will be adding de-chlorination solution.

Should I also be adding more Nutrafin Cycle with the newly added water or should there be enough bacteria in the gravel/filter already?

Thanks for everyone's help so far. I really do NOT want to lose any of my fish. I originally was going to do a fish less cycle like everyone suggests but my everyone at my lfs advised me to cycle my new tank with my fish to speed up the process. I am starting to think they just wanted my pockets to go lighter now after doing all of this reading every night.

Hope to hear from you guys soon with your next level of advice. I am ready for anything I need to do.

Thank You.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Yeah, sounds like the advice at your LFS leaves something to be desired. I've heard of very few "bacteria in a bottle" products that actually seemed to work, though a handful of them (oldschool BioSpira, newschool Tetra SafeStart or Dr Tim's One and Only) appear to work IF (and ONLY IF) they have been properly transported and stored, and are still sufficiently fresh.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who is doing a fishless cycle, but also has a wee bottle of safestart for when he finds the right ammonia)


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## kinesis (Aug 20, 2009)

> Yeah, sounds like the advice at your LFS leaves something to be desired. I've heard of very few "bacteria in a bottle" products that actually seemed to work, though a handful of them (oldschool BioSpira, newschool Tetra SafeStart or Dr Tim's One and Only) appear to work IF (and ONLY IF) they have been properly transported and stored, and are still sufficiently fresh.


I would only use one of these products, it would help you cycle within 1 week if it's stored correctly. Otherwise be prepared to do large water changes daily until you've cycled, roughly 4+ weeks.


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## Oscarmeyer321 (Jul 23, 2010)

I did a 30% water change about an hour ago. Going to test in the morning and hopefully have some better results.

Basically I am being told to do 25-50% water changes daily until ammonia is NOT present anymore and I have some form of Nitrite?

Time to get a pump or siphon system. Carrying 15 5-Gallon buckets 2x was far from fun and rough on the lower back...

Thanks Guys, I will post results in the morning and hopefully my ammonia levels are down. I fed my fish an hour before the water change so I am crossing my fingers.

I will have my lfs test my water Tomorrow evening and see what they advise me to do...

Goodnight All.

*Edit:* Can anyone tell me what is going on with my temperature system? Do I have my thermometers placed correctly in the tank? Should they be in corners, low or high in the tank?

Kind of curious if I am harming my fish. I feel I constantly change the temperature as in the morning my bottom two opposite temp gauges are reading over 82 degrees and my heater is reading 76-78. I am confused...

Thanks.


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## Gervahlt (Jun 25, 2009)

With temperature, there could be a couple of things going on that I can think of.

1) Your water isn't being circulated evenly.
2) Your temperature gauges aren't reading accurately on one, or more, of your thermometers.

More than likely, it's option #1. What's happening is that your heater is heating the water around at and then that water is being moved to one area of the tank where it pools. Eventually, enough of the heat returns to the heater to tell it to turn off, but there are several areas that are way too hot by that time.

What I do is point a Koralia (powerhead) at my heater so that the heat is circulated around the tank and towards the substrate. That's sufficient for me to have a fairly even temperature in my tank, but mine is only a 55 gallon (it also helps keep the poop off the sand better). With your 210 gallon, you'll probably need to work with more than one powerhead, or other water movement device, in your tank to make sure the heat is more evenly distributed throughout the tank. You also might consider using two smaller heaters in separate areas.


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## Oscarmeyer321 (Jul 23, 2010)

Gervahlt said:


> With temperature, there could be a couple of things going on that I can think of.
> 
> 1) Your water isn't being circulated evenly.
> 2) Your temperature gauges aren't reading accurately on one, or more, of your thermometers.
> ...


Thanks Gervahlt,

This is good advice as well. I've been told to run at least one power head, possibly two. I did finally get the tank circulating pretty well compared to how I initially had it setup.

I don't want to cause too much current because the fish seem to get blown around a decent amount already. This FX5 filter is stronger than I though originally once I had it circulating more efficiently.

I am going to have my lfs test my water tonight and will ask them about an additional mechanical filter and a power head.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

I am not sure I read what type of heater you are using. If it is an in tank style you can get "hot spots" if not set in a good location, you want to set those on a diagonal or horizontal position and in some sort of water current to get the most heat outta them. Then are you using one or two heaters?

I am using (2) inline heaters and only one really ever operates and that one has not turned on in a few months now unless I am off of temp during water changes.

The powerheads out now are not like the older powerheads we are used to that sent a fine streamed current thru the tank. Some of the better ones are a bit pricey like the vortec and tunze but koralia has a few out there that will not dent the wallet, you might want to check them out.

You cannot go wrong with an AC110 HOB and use it as a mechanical filter along with the can you have now. Stuff it with filter floss and it is very easy to maintain, then use your can for bio filtration.

Keep an eye on the nitrItes as you might see them rise when the ammonia drops.


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## Oscarmeyer321 (Jul 23, 2010)

fox said:


> I am not sure I read what type of heater you are using. If it is an in tank style you can get "hot spots" if not set in a good location, you want to set those on a diagonal or horizontal position and in some sort of water current to get the most heat outta them. Then are you using one or two heaters?
> 
> I am using (2) inline heaters and only one really ever operates and that one has not turned on in a few months now unless I am off of temp during water changes.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I am on my way to my local store now to have them check my water just in case my testing is not accurate.

I have watched a few videos on youtube and you are correct, all the heaters are on a diagonal slope.

I am going to check out the filters now!


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## Oscarmeyer321 (Jul 23, 2010)

I believe I will be solving my filtration issues!

I just purchased:

Two(2) AC110 Filter Setups

Two(2) Kolaria 1400 Powerheads

The 2 AC110's are good for an additional 1,000GPH combined and the 2 Kolaria's will push around an additional 2,800GPH!

Hopefully I can have everything work in conjunction now with my Fluval FX5.

I have a total of 1950GPH which should turn my tank around 9.75 times per hour.

My tank better be crystal clear in the morning with no dead spots!

Hopefully all my juvies can still swim!!!

I will take pics later on when everything is all up and running.

Thanks for everyone's help.
_________________


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## Gervahlt (Jun 25, 2009)

:lol: That's awesome! You should be good once you get all of that going.


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## Oscarmeyer321 (Jul 23, 2010)

Gervahlt said:


> :lol: That's awesome! You should be good once you get all of that going.


Ok so I got both AC110's up and running real nice.

I then proceeded to install just one of two HYDOR Koralia Evolution 1400gph powerheads.

I honestly can not find one decent spot to put this monster. Anywhere I put it either blows the fish to the other side of the tank or makes a whirlpool current that tilt my plants over and make the fish struggle to swim.

In a nutshell, these are way too powerful for my 210 in my opinion. They surely get the job done and blow water around but makes my aquarium a violently controlled whirlpool. These would be perfect for a 500+ Gallon Aquarium.

Should I give the power heads another shot? I can return the two Hydor Koralia 1400's and downgrade to a simple K2 or K3. To me I think half the GPH will be much better but I am still concerned I am just going to create another toned down whirlpool effect.

Anyone have advice on proper power head mounting? :lol:

Thanks!


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Place it on a side panel about midway up and focus it upwards. It is better to add one thing at a time so you know how every piece of equiptment affects your tank. Mebbe 1400 gph is overpowering for you system.

Those 110's might give you the circulation you need with that cannister. See where the detritus collects and go from there. I have gotten the circulation worked out in our 210 such that the detritus collects in two spots and I vac that out during the week 5 gals at a time.


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## kinesis (Aug 20, 2009)

> Basically I am being told to do 25-50% water changes daily until ammonia is NOT present anymore and I have some form of Nitrite?


You're going to have to do daily water changes until both ammonia and nitrites aren't present!


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