# Bolivian help please



## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

:wink: 
Just wanted to ask everyone what they fed theirs to get them to color up alot? I have 5 of them in a 20g long with sand bottom and fake plants and some wood and a few pieces of rock. They have been in this tank for over 2 weeks now, and they still don't have much color at all. Only one of them that i had from a while ago has any black in the dorsal spike, and they have just a hint of pink in their lower fins and the 2 striped edges of the caudal. Still faint though. There's only a small Caca in with them for now. They seem to get along fine with the usual mini jousting battles they are known for,but i wish i could get some more sparkle from their color. I feed a bit of flake, some NLS pellets, shrimp pellets, blood worms, and artemia/brine shrimp. Any suggestions/criticism is welcome.

Mike


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## leopio (Nov 18, 2007)

mines didn't get color til about 4 months. am talking about really nice color


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## AnDyF_27 (Aug 7, 2008)

it could be because of the substrate, my brother had a pair in his tank and the substrate was white with sum brown (gravel) and they didn't show much of the dark blue on the head so he gave them to me and they started to show the dark blue, my gravel is black


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## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

I suppose that's possible but they require a sand bed do they not? Earth eaters, not rock eaters? I've seen a few pictures on the internet that are FULL of different coloring and i just weant to brighten up the pinks and the orange in the body a bit more. They look plain against the sand bottom.


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

Mike... keep your sand substrate, it is the best for them without question. They can show amazing coloration over tan/white sand. Usually, when bolivians do not show coloration is when they are new, stressed, or simply too young. I wouldn't be concerned about them after only 2 weeks, they may need a month or two to properly settle in. How big are your bolivians? Juveniles might not color up until 9-10 months of age, maybe even more. They are very slow growing fish. Their diet sounds fine, so I would assume their poor coloration may be due to youth or not being settled in yet. Most bolivians at LFS are shy of maturity and need a few months to develop good coloration.

Here is a link to my article on the species, it is about breeding, but shows a nice progression of development from 3 weeks to adult, you might could determine the age of your fish if you aren't sure.
http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/breed ... sa_pt1.php

AnDyF_27... I would change your substrate to sand. Their natural foraging, courting and breeding behaviors are dependent on having a substrate they can dig through.

Ed


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## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

thanks ed...great article. Perhaps they are still young. They are roughly 2-21/2 inches from snout to tail. Is there any reason to think that the Caca may be spooking them too much? He doesn't harass too much, just a nudge or small chase here and there. I assume from no specific comments, that the numbers in the group and tank size are fine? Thanks again for all help.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *Mikey13*,

Just going to start at some basics here.

1) Did you cycle your tank before introducing fish to it? What are your Amonia, nitrite and nitrate readings?

2) What are your PH, GH and KH readings? Basically is your water chemistry suitable for your fish.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

I think 5 is to many in a 20 gallon. I recommend a 20 gallon for a single proven pair or 35 gallon or larger for a group,....this are standard dimensions!

At the size of 2 1/2 inch they should have more color as what you describe. Do they show small black dots all over? How abouth a pic of the tank and a pic of the fish? Can you give more info on PH, GH, temp.

Also additional info http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m ... pinosa.php


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## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

5 in a 30X12 footprint is too much? Using the old "inch per gallon " rule, that's plenty of room isn't it? Anyways, I have pretty hard water with a gH of 12 drops. The tank was cycled and temp is about 80-81. Are these guys not supposed to be in groups and not pairs anyways?? 
It's not like they are albino's, you can see the single or double marks on the sides, and some pink in their various fins, and one of them(from awhile back) has jet black in his dorsal spikes, so i just wanted to know if there was something else i could do to "jack" up their overall colour some, based on some of the photo's of other peoples that i've seen. I realize that not all of them will have spectacular color genes, but i just want to do what i can i suppose. Soon i'll be giving them a shop light directly over the tank but right now they just have ambient room lighting(one bulb is kinda over them too). Maybe that will perk the colors up too?? They are very active and playful, not hiding in a corner cowering or something like that, so i believe they are content in their tank, despite the fact that i have a hard water issue and a higher pH of maybe 7.8?? 
When i get the other light's up...i'll shoot up a pic.


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## Desi&lt;3 (Feb 13, 2008)

Inches per gallon doesnt work on community fish (guppies ect) much less cichlids. Just poppin that into the mix


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> 5 in a 30X12 footprint is too much? Using the old "inch per gallon " rule, that's plenty of room isn't it?


 I don't think so! It is not all abouth bio load (inch per gallon rule) but it is more abouth the size of their territories. Bolivians aren't aggressive but they do have some character and for that they need a territory around 10 by 10 inch each. You can't provide that in your current tank, are you?! The temp is to high for Bolivians and they prefer temps around the mid 70's. The GH is indeed a bit high but this doesn't have to be a problem if the PH is 7.5 A higher PH prevents eggs to hatch and abouve PH=8 is is also to high for the fish to thrive.



> Are these guys not supposed to be in groups and not pairs anyways??


 Yes they do and it would be better if you had bought a larger tank for them!

There is indeed something to do abouth gaining their color. At first they probably are still youngsters and will gain in color when maturing. The other things you can do are already mentioned in the articles added several posts back. If the fish feel happy they gain in color. If they aren't happy or stressed they are pail, poor eaters and showing small black dots all over.

To you what to do with the given info.


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

ya i agree with Duch Dude with the territorys and the group thing in a tank under 30 gallon you should only have a pair in that 20g long with some rummy nose tetras and corydoras with live assorted plantes that would look cool imo


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## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

Well here goes....the tank was empty and i wanted to fill it with something. I had one ram from another tank that i thought was getting lonely, so i got him/her some company. As for room/space...no i'm anything but an expert, but it sleighs me how people insist on putting twice as many cichlids into a tank that they should and everyone says "Oh, it's to cut t down on the aggression", but any other kind of fish has a few extra fish, and whoa...your crowding them! I call BS. Any fish in the world is likely going to be happier swimming in a larger tank(i.e maybe a lake or river) but we still cram them into what WE think they are happy in don't we?? Who really knows what area ANY fish needs? If we are going to get down to the nitty gritty stuff, we should all feel ashamed of ourselves for taking our pets out of there vast expanse bodies of water, and natural habitats shouldn't we? As for the never ending "black dots color"...no they are not showing the classic sign's of stress. Like i said, the only black dots, are their natural body markings.


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

> As for room/space...no I'm anything but an expert, but it sleighs me how people insist on putting twice as many cichlids into a tank that they should and everyone says "Oh, it's to cut t down on the aggression", but any other kind of fish has a few extra fish, and whoa...your crowding them!


 I did not insist on overcrowding a tank nor did any one of the posters to your question. This is the SA board and if you did some readings abouth SA cichlids you would have known that they do need larger territories as the African cichlids.



> Any fish in the world is likely going to be happier swimming in a larger tank


So you already knew!



> we still cram them into what WE think they are happy in don't we??


 People who have this thought are close to become good for their fish. Unfortunately most people do what they like to see and don't even take the effort to investigate their natural habitat and their social behaviour. Your one of those!

You show quit a bad attitude!!! Beg for advice and been given proper advice of more experienced people and still thinking you know it all!


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## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

Okay Dutchman.....your english isn't too hot, so some of your stuff makes no sense, but, no....no one here on this post said to overcrowd my tank. I was stating that it is believed that with some fish it's WIDELY ENCOURAGED to over stock a tank, and with other's, they need WAY more room: like 5-10X more area. As i said before...i say that IDEA is bull**** too me to an extent. Leading into your second quote about fish in a larger tank(more room period)......any aggressive cichlid, either slightly or highly, would be happier and more comfortable in a lake with basically unlimited range. Any idiot should know this, yet you excuse yourself putting a ridiculous amount of fish together in close proximity for your viewing pleasure, by telling yourself that it's good for the fish in the tank this way!! You're contradicting yourself, aren't you??? Room is good, but jam the aggressive ones in tight to spread the tension evenly. HMMMMMM? Aggressive fish are loaded in in almost all strictly cichlid tanks because that's what someone tried long ago, and when you or anyone else decided to give them a try....that's what u heard or read, and you jumped on board. Does that mean that those fish are happy? I have no idea...do you?? Of course not. If you cared so much about your fish...would you not choose a species and put maybe one or two firemouths in a 250 gallon tank where they would be MUCH happier with all that room? Silly isn't it?

Do i have an attitude?? Yes i do. At NO time did i BEG for anything fella! Read if you are able, from the start. The first several responses all gave there own personal suggestions, and/or experiences, and at no time was there any attitude, until you got your panties in a bunch, and starting pulling up quotes and saying "I don't think so!". I originally also said criticism welcome in my first post. I asked for help and advice, yes. I don't know it all any more than anyone else which i freely stated. Everyone else was able to communicate intelligently, but you wish to provoke some issue. I care very much about the wellfare of my fish as i'm asssuming you do too, but i don't take kindly to someone looking down their nose at me, thinking that they are talking to an idiot, or that they are vastly superior at rearing fish. The others tried to help. You tried to preach. If you are unable to offer help in a more constructive, social way, then maybe you should stick to just viewing the boards.

To all others...i do appreciate the information and feedback.


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## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

Okay Dutchman.....your english isn't too hot, so some of your stuff makes no sense, but, no....no one here on this post said to overcrowd my tank. I was stating that it is believed that with some fish it's WIDELY ENCOURAGED to over stock a tank, and with other's, they need WAY more room: like 5-10X more area. As i said before...i say that IDEA is bull**** too me to an extent. Leading into your second quote about fish in a larger tank(more room period)......any aggressive cichlid, either slightly or highly, would be happier and more comfortable in a lake with basically unlimited range. Any idiot should know this, yet you excuse yourself putting a ridiculous amount of fish together in close proximity for your viewing pleasure, by telling yourself that it's good for the fish in the tank this way!! You're contradicting yourself, aren't you??? Room is good, but jam the aggressive ones in tight to spread the tension evenly. HMMMMMM? Aggressive fish are loaded in in almost all strictly cichlid tanks because that's what someone tried long ago, and when you or anyone else decided to give them a try....that's what u heard or read, and you jumped on board. Does that mean that those fish are happy? I have no idea...do you?? Of course not. If you cared so much about your fish...would you not choose a species and put maybe one or two firemouths in a 250 gallon tank where they would be MUCH happier with all that room? Silly isn't it?

Do i have an attitude?? Yes i do. At NO time did i BEG for anything fella! Read if you are able, from the start. The first several responses all gave there own personal suggestions, and/or experiences, and at no time was there any attitude, until you got your panties in a bunch, and starting pulling up quotes and saying "I don't think so!". I originally also said criticism welcome in my first post. I asked for help and advice, yes. I don't know it all any more than anyone else which i freely stated. Everyone else was able to communicate intelligently, but you wish to provoke some issue. I care very much about the wellfare of my fish as i'm asssuming you do too, but i don't take kindly to someone looking down their nose at me, thinking that they are talking to an idiot, or that they are vastly superior at rearing fish. The others tried to help. You tried to preach. If you are unable to offer help in a more constructive, social way, then maybe you should stick to just viewing the boards.

To all others...i do appreciate the information and feedback.


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## Chris2500DK (Feb 15, 2006)

So now you've had 3 people tell you that a group of 5 bolivians in a 20 gallon long probably isn't a good long term idea. Don't take it out on Dutch just cause you're not happy with it.

The only one coming across as having an attitude in this thread is you. Take a breather, look at your fish and then come back.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Mikey13 said:


> Okay Dutchman.....your english isn't too hot, so some of your stuff makes no sense, but, no....no one here on this post said to overcrowd my tank. I was stating that it is believed that with some fish it's WIDELY ENCOURAGED to over stock a tank, and with other's, they need WAY more room: like 5-10X more area. As i said before...i say that IDEA is #%$& too me to an extent.


You've just shown us how little you actually understand the way in which the hierarchy of completely different species works.

Lose the aggression, be humble, and come back when you realise you don't know it all, you're talking to people who know a great deal about this, a great deal more than you, obviously, that doesn't mean thinking we're ultimate fish keepers, it means we have experience. Yes Ruurd has some difficulty, being that he is FOREIGN and wait, he's dyslexic, yet he does a better job than a lot of ENGLISH speakers, so have some courtesy, is that how you talk to people face to face? I doubt it. :roll: Does it occur to you that being foreign the literal translation of words can mean very different things - ie "beg" is "ask"..... This is an internationally used forum, so we try to be tolerant of the language barriers.

It's your attitude we're better off without, not Ruurds excellent knowledge from EXPERIENCE, from talking to others who are at the forefront of the field, you know, the likes of Heiko Blehrer etc. (if you don't know who that is I suggest you use google) but I suppose they don't know what they're talking about to you either, nevermind that they spend time in the habitat, researching specifically group hierarchy, environmental adaptation and spread, social status, ecological characteristics etc.

As for crowding some and not others, well that's because, as an example, in the Great Lakes of Africa the population density in a given area is MUCH higher than that of the vast openly linked rivers of, South America, so Cichlids from the Great Lakes tend to be "overcrowded" to reduce aggression simply because it is this principle that allows us to keep species together that are incredibly aggressive by DISPERSING aggression through not one or two fish, but multiple fish, in effect reducing the aggression. Fish that are highly aggressive DUE to low territory>high population ratios.

In South American sp. this (generally - there are always exceptions) does not work, why, because they are not suited to such population density of a single/similar species - they do not and have not interacted in that way in the wild, they have had the liberty of larger territories than those available in the Lake, therefore some need more space than others. SA's maintain a larger area of territory because their environmental factors have allowed it, as a result they tend to be less tolerant of other conspecifics within a _larger_ territory than those of the African Cichlids (they don't have much choice in the Great Lakes).

That you have said this is BS shows little understanding of the dynamics within those ecological ranges.

Yes I'm probably being a little blunt, but you've just slammed someone who's helped a lot of people down this road, who's too humble to state that they know what they're talking about so bluntly as to hammer the point accross to you, when all they've done is brought up points relating to statements made by yourself to correct you in your outdated/barley researched understanding of the topic. Ruurd is not one to look down his nose, but he is one to say "hey that makes no sense", at least he goes on to tell you why.

5 Bolivians in a 20 gallon is too much, end of. At 2" they should have pretty good colouration coming through, that they don't is probably due to stress from being in a tank that is now too small as they become sexually mature (and therefore truly territorial). That you believe 1" per gallon really shows me that your knowledge is old and or limited. That *does not* mean I think less of you, or that I'm looking down my nose at you, it means you need to be informed and taught correctly. The ONLY reason people respond to your post is to help YOU and ergo your fish.

Dutch Dude will teach you a heck of a lot about Bolivians, maybe you don't know that him and I have written articles about the species that are published here on this site.....

I've said my piece, I hope you open your ears, lose the attitude, don't get defensive, and take on board what is being said - it is based on well informed and experienced aquarists, who want to help you, not look down at you. If you feel that way maybe you need to address what causes it - perhaps you already question your own knowledge and so this makes you feel the need to be defensive, all I'll say is that there is nothing wrong with having little understanding of a topic IF you are humbly looking to learn and inform yourself about it.

So I suggest you take on board what has been said, and trust me, you don't need to get defensive, least of all with Ruurd. No one will read this and laugh at you, they will post and try to help you! But yeah, if you show bad attitude, expect to be put straight.


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## Hubbynz (May 10, 2008)

Mikey bro you need to take a chill pill, you are the one getting your knickers in a knot about nothing. You have asked for advice and have been given very sound advice by some very knowledgeable and experienced Bolivain keepers.

Both Ruurd and Blair are top blokes who have went out of their way to give me much great advice and tips in the past.

In regards to the language barrier....how arrogant are you? Hows your Dutch? English is Ruurds second language and if I was able to understand another language half as good as Ruurd does English then I would be stoked.

Sheesh what the point getting riled up about fish???


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## Dutch Dude (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi all,

At first I didn't want to respond to the previous. Right now I think I need to becouse I don't want this to escalate any more as it already did.

Over here in Holland we are used to tell straight ahead what we think and feel. I can imagine this came on to strong. Maybe I should have handled it more carefully and pic my words more careful. At the same time I wonder if this would have made a diference. I didn't gave you bad advice and there is nothing in there that I want to correct or change. I told you the reasons behind it. An yes,...your response irritated me becouse I didn't succeed in making you clear that the weak colors have to do with how the fish feel and their young age,....and,.... what could have solved this "problem". Probably you expected a recipe for color enhancement (foods) but in stead of that you received advice abouth the stock level. Any way,...I'm not on the board to argue. The reason I join this forum is to share knowledge and experiences with other people in the hobby or even the real experts and professionals. I learned a lot over here the past years and I hope I was able to pass through my experiences to others.

If someone is not open to my advice, thats fine by me. I don't feel offended by some provoking allegations you made. Just to make it clear to the people who read all of this,....yes I'm dyslectic (luckily in a low grade), spelling isn't my best ability, my first language is Frisian (Friesland), my second is Dutch and my third is English my fourth is German. If people don't understand what I write they can ask me abouth that. I don't judge people like most do and I certainly don't look down on people (who ask for help).

The last thing I will write in this post is that I hope you take a note of what I wrote abouth the fish. Hopefully you will read an advice that is based on years of experience on the specie. It would be nice if you at least discussed it with other people on the board.

Please keep the heads cool and I hope someone takes up the token to help the OP out on the info he asked for.


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## Mikey13 (Apr 1, 2008)

Okay people..this has gotten pretty absurd hasn't it? I'll try to address all of the things said, and explain anything if i can.

I posted this question about coloring in a very humble, and inviting way, never once claiming i was any kind of know-it-all or expert. The first several responses were politely given, and that was that.....no preaching, just a suggestion(all i was looking for). My attitude began after your Nov.22 @7:57 post, in which you changed the tone of things completely. Not once did i say that anyones advice wa not taken or that they are wrong or don't know what they're talking about. In all honesty, you may have got me on a bad day after i read the above mentioned post..i don't really know. I'm very laid back, but when i get that kind of response, i will certainly push back. As for what Blairo1 said...yes this is an international board which is great, and it is unfortunate that Dutch dude is dyslexic, and his english is not a primary language, but when you attack someone and put words into their mouth that were never said, you should expect the response you got. I take that statement very personally. To me, it's the same thing as you saying i stole something, when maybe you really meant i borrowed it. Get the idea. Blairo further insults me by questioning whether or not i am familiar with Heiko Blehrer's work and what he has done for the hobby. I came here with a simple question, and was accused of begging, and then basically told that i'm an idiot because of the question i asked, and that i don't know this guy, or haven't read this article or whatever. Frankly, if someone is going to be writing advice columns or articles about something, they should be very certain of the words they use or else the reader may get drastically wrong information. What if he said to a newbie that they should have 4-5 male Cacatuoides to 1 female because he got the meanings reversed? It could certainly happen, and that info would be pretty bad. 
I'm well aware of the reasoning behind various fish loads and the TYPICAL way to stock tanks. I don't need some sort of history lesson or biography, just a simple question about colors. Sounding like a broken record....i only wanted afew comments about the rams potential for coloring, and to be blunt as well; I could care less whether the replies come from someone who has written articles, written books, done field research, or has just bought their first few rams a month ago. Input is input. 
I am not arrogant at all, but i don't like to be talked down to which i have been in a few posts here. Dutch dude, i sincerely appreciate the fact that you are the type of person who says what you think straight up. I am also this kind of person, and i think you can see that here. Someone earlier commented that i wouldn't talk like this to you or someone else to your face, but i assure you, i most certainly would. If my buttons get pushed, you'll know about it.
Experience is very valuable and can help many people at many times but you need to learn how to perhaps communicate your opinions and advice a bit better. If the posters wish to attack me and bash my knowledge, and make their accusations, so be it. I got offended, said my piece and tried to explain. 
I have no desire to wage a war of word's in cyber space. Thank you to all. Happy fishkeeping.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Bro, you took what Ruurd said too harshly and launched an attack when it wasn't necessary. You say you had a bad day, fair enough - we all have them.

I just want to make it clear that I wasn't trying to insult you, I was pointing out how arrogantly/blasÃ©e you came accross (intonation is completely lost on the i-net so perhaps some of my statements didn't come across right and maybe I took some of yours in the wrong way). But, if someone, after recieving advice regarding a particular species, is saying that overstocking/understocking is BS, then how does that come across!? Ie well fine you may have knowledge and experience and you might know that xxxx is the right stocking for this size tank, but I don't care 'cos I think it's BS and it isn't to do with my question anyway. Well actually it is, as I addressed in my post to you the stocking and size tank is almost certainly contributing to the poor colouration in your fish. Not really a great attitude to present, it's going to get peoples backs up becuase your pissing at their knowledge, whether that's intentional or not.

You may not care where the input comes from, but I'd rather have my input from people who have specialized in keeping the fish I am interested in, wouldn't you!? General input is great, but to get advice from people who have specialized in something, you can't really compare it.

Anyhow, I didn't mean to "give you a history lesson" - I was informing you of the reasons why we overstock some and not others because you genuinely did not seem to understand (again from earlier statements) truly why one is recommended and not the other (and vice versa), so I was trying to explain that to you, not in a patronizing way, but in a generalised and simple way, that would enable you to learn something in case you did not know it. I mention Heiko Blehrer not to insinuate that you are an idiot who knows nothing, but to make you look him up in case you didn't, to make you realise the sort of level of expertise shared - I don't know how much/little you know apart from what I can conclude from your statements.

No-one is trying to make you feel like an idiot, yes I was probably harsh and I do apologise, but at the time I felt it was the only way to hammer accross the point to someone who I thought was being stubborn and a know-it-all. My comment of "you're talking to people who know a great deal about this, a great deal more than you, obviously, that doesn't mean thinking we're ultimate fish keepers, it means we have experience. " was not meant generally, but about the topic we were discussing, so I hope it wasn't taken that I was questioning you _generally_, I certainly would not be so insulting.

All I'm trying to put accross is that you can lose the aggression, don't feel defensive! If you feel something is put harshly then I would calmly address the poster in case they had not meant it in such context, rather than launch an attack - as in this case I'm sure Ruurd would have apologised immediately if he thought that was how you had taken his comments.

I've seen your posts, you seem like a decent guy, so lets move on.

I feed my Bolivians New Life Spectrum 1mm Cichlid formula, that's all - it's an excellent staple food that will deliver what your fish need (and then some) and it's more than adequate to be used as their sole diet. Ruurd feeds a variety which he can best inform you of, the choice is yours really, either will be more than appropriate.

The best colouration I see in my Bolivians is as they hit 2+" they really start to colour up with a decent diet, but most of all, water changes! My Bolivians shone with colour with 3x a week WC's and they absolutely blossomed when I was performing daily water changes. The other benefit of increased WC's is how much the little guys and gals breed, nothing compares.

Another contributing factor that I found is that I had much stronger yellows and reds in a lower pH, this may only be reflected in my genetic pool VS others, but at a pH of 5.8-6 they were really stunning, my KH is a lowly 1.5 (barely) so fin extensions also become quite impressive. I generally don't advise the lower pH though, not below 6, and not to people new to the fish - once you have gained experience with them on a general level than you can go on to do what others like Ed, Ruurd and I (and many more) have done, which is to experiment (certainly I can speak for myself) with water parameters and the effects it has on their growth rate, spawn rate, fry development, colouration/virility etc etc.

Last of all (notably) is territory, without enough territory the fish will NEVER be as colourful as they could be with appropriate territory and an aquascape that caters to their needs...

Here is a site I made to help new Bolivian keepers- www.brc.moonfruit.com

In short;

Larger tank
Dense/well segregated aquascape
High quality diet
Frequent (almost religious) water changes

These are the factors that contribute to the quality of your specimen. Forget "colour juicing" feeds, go for the healthiest diet and follow those few key points, _then_ strong colouration will come naturally.

Of course there is one final factor - the source of the genetics - some (if not the majority) come from Asian farm bred stock, unfortunately this is usually hormoned to increase growth and colour early on, essentially increasing their rate of turnover. What this means for the consumer at the bottom end of the chain is usually poorly formed fish that either possess mutations, or are severely affected by the hormones used. Fish that have been hormoned will eventually lose their colour and will probably never gain their full potential. It is best to find a local source, or as many have - to start with farm bred stock, very quickly breed them, allowing you to raise their offspring in excellent conditions - this leads on to having very healthy stock to work with (assuming few/no genetic mutations present themselves).

What are your goals with these fish?


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