# koi angels laid some eggs, and now they are gone



## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

i have a trio of koi angels. i was waiting for a pair to form and it did. when i came home on mon night i saw them chasing everyone else around and thought they might lay me some eggs. after a closer look i saw they had already spawned and had about 40-50 eggs on an amazon sword leaf.

the next morning i came to check and all the eggs were gone. 

i was wondering if they might have just not fertilized the eggs and ate them. or if there are some culprits in my tank.

tank mates...
1 female bolivian ram
1 blue gourami
5 corys
1 other koi angel
1 large pleco

i was wondering also if they might have been eaten by snails. i have some malaysian trumpets and some small mystery type snails.(came with some plants i bought and i cant get rid of em) my water seems to be fine. 
0 ammo
0 nitrites
35 ppm nitrates
78-80f
med planted 29g. 
aqua clear 50 and aquaball 2120

i am getting a 55g soon to move the lot to. so i was just wondering what could be done to help keep the eggs going. i plan on removing the wigglers into a 10g to grow out.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Don't hit submit again once you've hit it. If it "hangs up" on you, hit the refresh button once.

Anytime you have other fish in the tank, you stand a chance of losing the eggs, especially with new first time parents who aren't well prepared for parenthood.

My cories are horrible for swarming my ram fry and eating them.

If you're really interested in breeding, you may want to give the pair a tank of their own. It's still kind of "iffy" though...Some fish just aren't good parents and will eat their own eggs. :-?


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

ah sry. my browser timed out and i hit refresh too.

yea thats what i thought. but once they lay the eggs are they really needed in the same tank?? 
what type of set up would be needed in order to have a successful batch?

ty for the help. :wink:


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

Angels lay many eggs and when my pair spawned, I was never able to count all the fry even when some were lost. As they grew out, I had trouble finding homes for all of them.

Folks that breed angels often remove the eggs, treat them for fungus and keep them with a sponge filter for the largest numbers.

I preferred to let the pair raise the fry. They often moved them around from place to place (once on the heater which killed them) and when they became free-swimming, the parents would herd them into a group. The behavior was really interesting to watch. I would remove the fry once the parents stopped showing interest in them and were spawning again.

Some things I caution you about: 
1) The fry will get sucked into filter intakes. If you cover the filter intake with a sponge, the fry will still get sucked up against the sponge.

2) The fry can also get stuck in the gravel, most folks that breed angels use bare-bottomed tanks. I suspect sand will also work ok.

3) The fry can be particular about eating. They want live baby brine shrimp. Get a hatchery.

4) Brine shrimp really dirty the water. A sponge filter will not be sufficient to keep it clean so expect to do daily water changes until you can put a regular filter on the tank.

5) It is amazingly easy to suck the fry into the hose when vacuuming the tank. They are attracted to the hose so collect the water you siphon out into a clean bucket and check it for fry.

6) Angelfish were about the most difficult fish to raise. Lots of work.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

thanks for the tips. i have a 10g bare bottum now and my german rams are ready to be moved out. :thumb:

can i move the breeding pair into the 10g and let them do their thing in there?? then once the fry are free swimming remove the parents?

and i usually do daily water changes with my fry tanks. but i usually have my fry in nets so i know where they are. i might use a few nets and suck up the fry with a tube and separate them into the nets. but that depends on how many fry i get.

also how long is the time between angels spawns? 2 weeks, 4 weeks?? i would like to get them in the 10g before they go again. :fish:


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

I wouldn't put the breeding pair in a 10 gallon, a 20 gallon would work but still a bit small.

I don't claim to be an expert on breeding angels. There is a new angelfish forum where you can find great advice.

http://angelfishconnection.hqforums.com/


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

kk thanks. i found some good info already. :thumb:

and i only read a few topics. hopefully i can get some fry by sept.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

so i had them spawn again but this time i got to watch (Perv i know) :lol:

but noticed the female was laying the eggs and the male was not doing his thing. how long can the eggs be with out being fertilized??

i was worried that maybe the male was not really that interested. so i did some more reading. then i found an article that said that i might have LESBIAN fish!!!!!!

it said that sometimes females will form false pairs and lays eggs together and just end up eaten them.

has anyone ever had this happen??

this seems to be the case because i noticed the "males" breeding vent was the same as the females. at first i thought it was smaller and slanted but then it became large and wider.

so i might have gotten screwed again with the whole sex ratio thing and got a trio of females with no male. :? :?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

It may be two females, unfortunately. Yes, I've had this happen. They seem to want to "go through the motions" even in the absence of a male.

These "pretenders" make it hard on us who try to sex them in this manner! :lol:


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 
:fish:


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Sorry, I know that's not what you wanted to hear...I almost said something about it in my first post, but you were so excited and I didn't want to burst your bubble! Besides, you can always hope you're wrong!

And we could be wrong now...It may be that you have picked a pair, and the male isn't as mature as the female...


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

im pretty sure its a female. i swapped the female i have not seen lay eggs yet. hopefully the other is a male. but it looks like a smaller male so probably not mature yet either.

got my fingers croassed


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

well the second female decided to lay her eggs tonight also. they are almost on the same pattern.

the 1st female laid 2 days ago. now the 2nd. then 3 days with no eggs and lets see if they go at it again. weirdo lesobos :roll: :roll:

i am gonna call the breeder i got them from and see if cant he cant sell me a couple of studly guys to swing them back. then i should be overrun with angel fry... :fish:


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

if it is the first time they spawned then dont worry most fish eat there first couple batches of babies it is totaly normal trust me :thumb:


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