# Jack Dempsey sick? HELP! :'(



## JetBlack6 (Jun 14, 2012)

Hey, I'm new to this forum but I needed some expert advise if possible. I don't have a test kit right now so I can't tell you the specific conditions of the water but all my other fish are acting normal. Anyways I have a 75 gallon with a Green Terror (dominate of the tank but not super aggressive), Firemouth,Common Pleco, Black Diamond and my Jack Dempsey. For the past couple weeks he has been just chilling out in his cave, He only comes out to eat (but not eating a lot) or to sit in the bottom corner of the tank. His color seems to have become washes out almost like a hazy look to his scales. I don't see any parasites but I did notice today a white patch on his side (possibly missing scales there). This seemed to have started when I fed them some live goldfish that a friend of mine breeds, I figured they would be a lot cleaner then the LFS feeders. He ate a couple goldfish then started this whole ordeal. The rest of the fish are acting completely normal and displaying beautiful rich colors. Any idea what this could be? I don't want him to die on me.

Oh I did forget to mention this, I haven't seen him do it in a couple of days but he would swim very erratically and swim on his side along the gravel, I thought it might be ick but I haven't seen anything show up on his body.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Well you've got quite a mix in there so the first thing that comes to mind is aggression. You don't always see the worst of it. 
I suggest first of all doing a partial water change using a good quality dechlorinator.Check the filters to make sure there's a good strong flow coming out of the filter return, look to see that there's no build up of waste on the filter media. Siphon the gravel thorougly. (I've never fed fish live food but I imagine it can be quite messy requiring extra maintenance on the tank)

I would remove the Dempsey to a hospital tank, asap. If it's aggression then this will give him time/opportunity to recover. If it's something else then not only will you be able to observe his symptoms better in the smaller tank but if you need to treat him then it will be easier and possibly cheaper. I think if you leave him where he is then there's a good chance of losing him plus if he does have something that's contagious you don't want your other fish infected. A cheap ten gallon tank, filter and heater is all you need. Use a piece of the media from your 75's filter to seed the hospital tank's filter so it will be cycled right away.

How long has the tank been set up and how long have you had this particular mix of fish? Please post back with more information/questions.

Robin---oh and Welcome to the forum  Glad to have you

It's easier to catch fish using two nets and after you've removed a fair amount of the water. Even sick fish can give you quite a battle!! Good luck


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## JetBlack6 (Jun 14, 2012)

They have all been together (accept the black diamond) since they were fry, I have had them for almost 2 years now. The tank is pretty new, a little under 2 months. I thought it was from aggression at first but then I noticed the JD had a patch of white on his side, and his abdomen doesn't look right. I am either thinking its 1 of 2 things... Bloat? Maybe when he ate the goldfish some of it got caught up in his digestive system and needs to get unclogged somehow (although I have seen him relieve himself) but that doesn't explain the white patch on the side of him. That leads me to believe that he might have a bacterial infection going on possibly? I really don't know, I'm thinking of just treating the whole tank first to kill anything that might be lingering inside of it.


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## JetBlack6 (Jun 14, 2012)

Any recommendations for meds to treat the tank with? I have heard epsom salt could help if it is bloat, but I have no idea how much of that I should add to the water. Any and all suggestions are welcome  And thanks Robin, glad to be here!


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## JetBlack6 (Jun 14, 2012)

I don't really ever feed them live food, I have only done it twice. Their diet consists of spectrum cichlid sinking pellets and twice a month I treat them with brine shrimp. Figures something like this would happen


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Is he in the hospital tank yet?

It's not sounding like bloat to me. And there is not one medicine that will cure whatever might be wrong with a fish...the wrong med could make them sicker.

Is the patch fuzzy? Can you post a picture of it?

I think no matter what he needs to go in a hospital tank.


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## JetBlack6 (Jun 14, 2012)

I can try to get a picture, but no it didn't look fuzzy when I saw it yesterday. I sold my last tank so I don't have anything to put him in. My friend may have a 5 gallon I can use or maybe I can use a tote. He's not huge, maybe 3" or 3 1/2". Would the 5g be to small?


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## JetBlack6 (Jun 14, 2012)

This is my buddy Jack









Most of the time he is chilling out in his cave.









Sometimes he comes out and sits in this corner. (This is the side without the white patch) Oh and I rarely ever see him fan his fins.









I couldn't get a good shot of the white area but you can kind of have an idea in this picture.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Well other than seeing that he is a beautiful fish the pictures really don't show much. 
So the tank has some aggression. The JD's symptoms are that he's not swimming around much, he's got a patch of something on one side, he's still eating and his abdomen doesn't look right--? What exactly do you mean by that? Is it just that one patch that's lost it's color or does all of his coloring fluctuate? Washed out and then back to full color? He looks pretty good in the pictures. . .
If he's eating then it's not bloat. If his belly area looks bloated then it may be he as some sort of blockage. The patch on his side may just be a minor injury or the beginnings of a bacterial infection.

My advice: move him to a hospital tank. The 5 gallon is ok for now and perhaps he'll be okay with it but really a ten would be better--it's a good investment--you'll use that ten gallon over and over--fry tank, quarantine tank, hospital tank. Part of the reason you want him in the hospital tank is to reduce stress, (which makes them less able to heal) and being in a small tank may stress him. 
I would not feed him for a few days and add epsom salt to the water at the rate of 1 tablespoon per five gallons. (Espsom salt works as a laxative). Dissolve the salt first and add it gradually over several hours time. 
Make sure to do a partial water change on the main tank using a good quality dechlorinator. 
And DJ is right, about everything, but especially you don't want to medicate until you've got some idea what's going on and then we might still be able to avoid meds. 
Robin


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## JetBlack6 (Jun 14, 2012)

Thank you so much for the advise  His belly seems a bit concaved and he hardly ate when I fed them earlier. I will get a 10g tomorrow and move him in there and get a epsom drop going. I'll keep you updated on this thread wish him luck!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Concave? Sorry. I just assumed you meant bloated. 
When you say he hardly ate: did he take food in and spit it out? 
I'll be at work all day today so hopefully someone else will pick up on this but a concave belly can mean internal parasites or an internal bacterial infection. You may also be looking at the first signs of bloat if the fish is spitting out his food. (And a concave belly can also be bloat although usually that happens more towards the end)
It's tricky because initially the JD may have just been reacting to aggression but now, from the stress, it may be that he's got something. 
Robin


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

If you're going to the fish store today pick up some Tetra Parasite Guard (formerly Jungle Parasite Clear). If he was eating well I'd suggest metronidazole soaked food but since he's not the Parasite Guard is one way to go. It's got metronidazole in it and other ingredients that work on both parasites and some bacterial infections. I say one way to go because the other approach would be to go with a straight antibiotic, (Kanamycin or the combination of Maracyn and Maracyn-two). Really don't know what we're looking at here for sure, parasites, (bloat) or bacterial. . Hopefully with a little more info from you, (answers to my most recent questions), and input from others we can get you started today with a course of action.

off to work
Robin


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## JetBlack6 (Jun 14, 2012)

Hey, thanks again for the advice. I have him in the hospital tank now. I am doing a slow drip of epsom salt and they didn't have any tetra parasite guard so I picked up some API Melafix for bacterial infections and Pimafix for fungal infections. I am now able to view him better now and he absolutely has fin rot going on, maybe that will help diagnose him. I'm going to treat him daily with this stuff for a week. Any idea what he might have since he has fin rot?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Honestly I've never had a fish with fin rot. Are the fins mushy like they are dissolving?

All the damage to fins in my tanks is aggression induced. Treat him daily with what?

If his fins are damaged he needs nothing more than solitude and clean water to heal. And the white mark could easily be a scrape...same treatment.

Did he eat tonight?

Is he passing thick, food-colored feces?


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## JetBlack6 (Jun 14, 2012)

Let me take some pictures now, maybe dissolving or receding down, with the spines of the fin still intact. The instructions for the pimafix and melafix say to treat with 1teaspoon per 10g once a day for 7 days.

I fed them before I moved him to the hospital tank and he still didn't eat, just sat in his cave. I have yet to see any feces in the hospital tank. I'll post some more pictures.


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## JetBlack6 (Jun 14, 2012)

Ok, here is what his dorsal fin looks like.









Here is a good picture of the white patch on his side.









And I just noticed what looks like the same thing on his gill.


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## JetBlack6 (Jun 14, 2012)

I may have to pick up some Maracyn and Maracyn-two. I am reading bad things about the stuff I picked up. Well just that it's a waste of money and does nothing but smell good. Petco didn't have the Maracyn, any idea where to buy it at? maybe petsmart?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I usually order medicines online because the LFS tend not to have what I need.

Fin rot (if that's what you have) is bacterial. If you were able to get the Maracyn-two and now only need the Maracyn, note that Maracyn is erythromycin and is sold under that name by API...I've seen it on chain pet stores in malls near me.

Once the fin rot is cured, keep it away by managing aggression and keeping water pristine.


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