# A change of plan



## Bracken606 (Aug 19, 2013)

Having initially created a thread on here a week or so ago asking about potential mbuna stocking for a 5' x 2' x 2' aquarium I am looking to set up in the next 2 months.

I am delighted to find out that my better half suggested that a 6' x 2' x 2' 180 USG would be nice :dancing:

In answer to this my thoughts are now turning to Haps / peacocks (which i previously dismissed as not thinking this acheivable long term in a 5 footer) - see list below for why 5ft would be a tight fit.

Is the list below achievable with the 6x2x2 all male. - or are there some red flags such as too big, too many same genus etc

-HAPLOCHROMINES-

1 x Copadichromis borleyi "Kadnango"
1 x Copadichromis Azures
1 x Otopharynx lithobates (Zimbawe Rock)
1 x Placidochromis sp. "Jalo"
1 x Placidochromis "Electra Undu" (Deep Water Hap)
1 x Protomelas insignis (Gome) 
1 x Protomelas sp. Spilonotus "Tanzania"
1 x Protomelas sp. Spilonotus "Mara Rocks" (Sulphur Head Haplochromis Ovatus) 
1 x Protomelas sp. Steveni "Imperial" (Imperial Tigress)
1 x Protomelas taeniolatus (Chilumba Jetty) 
1 x Sciaenochromis Sp.Nyassae
1 x Tramitichromis sp. Intermedius

-PEACOCKS-
1 x Aulonocara Stuartgranti "Hai Reef" (Blue Neon)
1 x Aulonocara baenschi (benga) 
1 x Aulonocara (Rubescens)

Another option with the above list is a breeding setup. Which 3 or 4 species would you take from the above list as breeders and what ratio of m to f.

My favorite 3 from the list are Spilontus Tanzania, Spilontus Mara Rocks and Deep Water Hap Undu.

Any help you can give will be received gratefully even if its a no to all the above.

Simon.


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## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

Are all of these species available in your area? Some of these species are rare in the USA, but maybe you have a different selection in the UK. I suspect a few of these species will be difficult to find, at the least.

The main thing that jumps out at me with this stocklist is that the following species (below) are closely related and several are very close in color. Maybe you can choose the 2 from this list that look most different from one another, to give them a shot, but it's possible that only one will work. I know from my own personal experience that my P. "spilonotus tanzania" barely tolerates my P. Steveni (Taiwan Reef). They've been in a few fights early on, but have been coexisting ok for the last 6 months.

1 x Protomelas insignis (Gome)
1 x Protomelas sp. Spilonotus "Tanzania"
1 x Protomelas sp. Spilonotus "Mara Rocks" (Sulphur Head Haplochromis Ovatus)
1 x Protomelas sp. Steveni "Imperial" (Imperial Tigress)
1 x Protomelas taeniolatus (Chilumba Jetty)

There are a few other pairs of species that may or may not work together (I'm thinking the Lithobates + P. spilonotus (mara)), but I really don't have first hand experience with them so I'll let others chime in.

In general, I think you could easily add a few more species of peacocks that will coexist nicely with your current group. You should also consider Pl. sp. "phenochilus tanzania" (aka Star Sapphire), which is a unique-looking stunner that every 5ft+ all-male hap+peacock tank should have IMO.


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## Bracken606 (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi Kanorin thanks for the feedback. What is confusing is that the images on this site and google show the protomelas listed above as different markings and colours, as well as descibing them either peaceful or mildly aggressive. I am dropping the proto insignis gome as it is very like the placido Jalo. Had another looks at the adult tigress colours and i see what you mean about similarity to the spilontus tanzabia., however if i get the spilontus tanzania Royal it may be enough of a difference to be ok. I think no matter what we choode on all male its going to be a juggling act and need to be prepared to be change where needed. I Hadnt thought about the pheno tanzania but that is a lovely fish.

I will look at some more peacocks as well, but didnt want either the aggressive jakes or the sensitive orchid/nagara which will struggle with the 10"-12" proto's.

All the fish on my possible list are available in the UK but pricey as you may imagine.


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## Bracken606 (Aug 19, 2013)

Just to give you an idea of availability and pricing...all fish on the above listare available through 3 different breeders in the UK

Protomelas sp. Spilonotus "Tanzania" Liuli £55
Protomelas sp. Spilonotus Mara Rocks £50
Protomelas sp. Steveni "Imperial Tigress £65
Protomelas taeniolatus (Chilumba Jetty) £55
Sciaenochromis Sp.Nyassae £48

Rest of the fish on the list are £28 to £30

Expensive...Yes Worth it? Every penny.


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## Bracken606 (Aug 19, 2013)

2nd attempt at this proposed listing

Replaced the Protomelas sp. Steveni Imperial Tigress with a red empress
Replaced the Protomelas taeniolatus (Chilumba Jetty) with a Nimbochromis Polystigma 
and added 3 more Peacocks.

-HAPLOCHROMINES-

1 x Copadichromis borleyi "Kadnango"
1 x Copadichromis Azures
1 x Otopharynx lithobates (Zimbawe Rock)
1 x Nimbochromis Polystigma
1 x Placidochromis sp. "Jalo"
1 x Plaxcdochromis. sp. "phenochilus tanzania" 
1 x Placidochromis "Electra Undu" (Deep Water Hap)
1 x Protomelas sp. Spilonotus "Tanzania"
1 x Protomelas sp. Spilonotus "Mara Rocks" (Sulphur Head Haplochromis Ovatus) 
1 x Protomelas taeniolatus (Red Empress) 
1 x Sciaenochromis Sp.Nyassae
1 x Tramitichromis sp. Intermedius

-PEACOCKS-
1 x Aulonocara Stuartgranti "Hai Reef" (Blue Neon)
1 x Aulonocara baenschi (benga) 
1 x Aulonocara (Rubescens) 
1 x Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Hongi Is.) 
1 x Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Rostratum)
1 x Aulonocara Maulana (Bi-colour 500)


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## Bracken606 (Aug 19, 2013)

Edited because of typo - meant Aulonocara Rostratum not aulonocara Jocobfreibergi Rostratum


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## jw85 (Dec 24, 2013)

This is all from my experience, so take it for what it's worth, as I've owned several fish on your list.

In general, the Copadichromises I've owned have been rather "weak". Not sure if that is normal or not, but the two borleyis I've had haven't done super well. My other two Copas are hit or miss. I have no experience with the azures. Just an FYI, I like them so I keep them, but they haven't colored well.

I'd strongly suggest against keeping two Proto spilos, I can't imagine two grown nearly 10 inch specimens getting along in a 6 foot tank. I have a decent sized Mara Rocks, and at times can be quite the terror. In the 6 foot tank he can cause some damage. He dislikes most fish in my tank, and pretty much keeps my Taeniochromis holotaenia from coloring. I've had both the Mara Rocks and the Tanzania (at separate times). My tanzania was a "dud" color wise, and my Mara Rocks is fully colored and very pretty. I'd have to give the edge to the Tanzania though for overall potential prettiness, most of the time my Mara Rocks just looks like a blue fish, even at full color isn't as impressive as others in my tank. Thought if you really like the Mara Rocks, you could maybe replace the Tanzania with a Protomelas hertae, mine is one of my favorite fish.

Other possible additions would be something from the Mylochromis genus, I love my Mylochromis anaphyrmus. Another often overlooked fish is the Placidochromis milmo. I have a still coloring yellow variant and he is awesome. They have a nice shape and keep to themselves.

My Aulonocara jacobfreibergi is psychotic. If you check out my video here: 



 He is pretty territorial to the left 2 feet of my tank. Take note of how small he is ... I've seen him chase and bite at everything in the tank. He will even flare and try to chase away the Mara Rocks, often times sucessfully. I'm fairly certain that he bullys my Taeniochromis holotaenia. He hates my boryleyi. And I guess any fish within 12 inches of him. At the 56 second mark on my video you can see the Mara Rocks, holotaenia, and jacob on the screen at the same time to really take in how little he is. Sometimes he gets beaten up but quickly recovers, so it seems he dishes out damage more than he takes. I'd buy him again if given the choice, but he isn't fully grown yet. I'd have hospital tanks available though.

My Aulonocara stuartgranti (bicolor) is also psychotic. He lives to fight. All day, every day. He has a particular dislike for my Mylochromis anaphyrmus, who he chases regularly, despite being a lot smaller. His fins are always ripped and ragged. I've had him for well over 2 years at this point, and I don't remember him ever having healthy undamaged fins. I feel like the color from him can be replaced by a hap that isn't "crazy". If given the choice, I wouldn't buy another one. I don't know if all stuartgranti are the "same" personality wise, so just an FYI.

I'd be worried about the Tramitichromis and Otopharynx being bullied, but I only have experience with the Otopharynx genus, and the one I had was weak.

I love my polystimga. He can be handful at times, but usually he is very well behaved, even with smaller fish. His color is amazing when the lights are off, and just so-so when on.

Good luck


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## Bracken606 (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi JW85 thanks for the reply.

I knew that this was a difficult task when considering an all male, just thought it may be easier with the larger space, but its not is it.

I read a piece of advice another forum member was given for their all male setup which was "do not go all male if you cannot stand to remove your favourite fish" With that in mind i am going to drop the two Proto Spilontus. As per my original list I did not want to add peacocks and wanted an all hap tank but added a very few to bring in more colour. Looks like I need to go to the my tanks section and look at what others have that have worked for them in this size and hope for similar luck. Problem with that is that there will always be members on here that could attest to that list not working for them....so in the end its going to come down to trial and error in any case opcorn:


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## TTUhouston (Jul 22, 2013)

All stuartgranti peacocks are not crazy. I have a breeding group of Stuartgranti Maleri and I have yet to see him be aggressive to anyone other than other males of his type. In a 6' tank he does have another male in the tank that he keeps from coloring up. Other than that he ignores every other fish in the tank. I have never had the "Blue Neon" though.

Good luck! I have never done the all male tank but I do have problems with getting certain fish to work in my tank. I assume it is because there is breeding going on and a lot of egos to deal with because of that.


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## Bracken606 (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks for the reply TT Houston, I think I will need all the luck I can get, thats why i am researching and asking these questions 2 months prior to purchase of the aquarium let aloneanother 3-4 weeks to fishless cycle. Do you think 2 x FX6 will be OK for 180 gallons?

Just had a look on Dannigirl's 150 Hap/Peacock aquarium on the MyTanks section and the fish selection there looks great although I wouldnt mind hearing her experience of the Tiger and Proto Spilontus Tanzania Liuli in the same aquarium as her's is the same footprint just less 30 gallons.

Simon.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Let's see...I would not combine borleyi and empress, but my borleyi have always colored up well and been dominant. Agree on some of the other copadichromis (timid) but so are otopharynx and tramitichromis. And tanzania. I've tried to go with more timid species because I like their colors.

The timid copadichromis I tried were trewavasae (molto) and chrysonotus. I haven't tried the azureus.

My blue neon did not color up with maleri and usisya but not sure which was intimidating him.

Haps I have found too aggressive with the timid ones: Mylochromis ericotaenia, Obliquidens, Taiwan Reef.


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## Bracken606 (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks DJ, Very useful as ever. Nice to read a selection of fish that can work together and not just what will fail. Despite my 20+ years fish keeping I have never kept haps and peacocks and its a bloody minefield so i appreciate any guide i can get.

Rather than bothering the forum with updated lists I will go away and look at further successful 6ft tanks and their stock lists and perhaps come back in a months time with a hopeful final list.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Here is my current combo, with the Taiwan reef causing problems at the moment:
Aulonocara Rubescens
Aulonocara Lwanda
Aulonocara stuartgranti Cobue (Regal)
Aulonocara stuartgranti Maleri
Aulonocara stuartgranti Ngara
Aulonocara stuartgranti Usisya
Aulonocara turkis
Copadichromis borleyi Kandango
Mylochromis sp Mchuse
Copadichromis trewavasae
Labidochromis caeruleus
Otopharynx tetrastigma
Placidochromis electra Likoma 'Deep Water'
Protomelas marginatus 'Turquoise'
Sciaenochromis fryeri Electric Blue
Protomelas steveni taiwan reef
Labidochromis caeruleus
Flameback


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## Bracken606 (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks DJ that's awesome.


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## chopsteeks (Jul 23, 2013)

my 2 cents...

Personalities combined with 'chemistry between the fish'. I used to, and still do at times, narrow down my choices based on the description given by the cichlid profile section. This is a general profile, but there seems to be more exceptions to this general profiles.

What do I mean about chemistry ? One example, I have an 11" Malawi Biter in a 6' tank. One of the boisterous female Dolphins (soon to be rehomed) will set off this Malawi Eye biter to a frenzied aggression. Like dominoes, soon most fish in this tank will show their aggressive side. Take out this Malawi Eye Biter and put him in a 75 gallon tank with Brichardis, he will behave himself. So I likewise placed the boisterous female dolphin on the same tank at the same time ----- Brichardis put these two at peace.

Also, there has to be a dominant fish in the tank. The tank had relative peace when I still had 'The King' ---- 8" male Blue Dolphin. Sadly, he died......when this happened, the fight for the top spot has not ended. Or should I say the desirable King of the tank has not been found. A male Fusco took the title, but he was too mean. Same can be said of the Intermedius Lethrinop and an oversize German Red Peacock. I finally found a big 10"+ male Blue Dolphin.....so far so good.

Again, these comments are based on my personal experience.....others have different opinions.....

-HAPLOCHROMINES-

1 x Copadichromis borleyi "Kandango" --- *colored up, Peaceful*
1 x Copadichromis Azures --- *Colored up, peaceful. I have 3 5" males with Frontosas, schooling together*
1 x Otopharynx lithobates (Zimbawe Rock) ---- *colored up, peaceful*
1 x Nimbochromis Polystigma
1 x Placidochromis sp. "Jalo"
1 x Plaxcdochromis. sp. "phenochilus Tanzania" ---- *Peaceful, colored up*
1 x Placidochromis "Electra Undu" (Deep Water Hap) ----- *Peaceful, but wanted to mate with Dolphins. Also, Giant Demasoni wanted to kill this guy. Rehired*
1 x Protomelas sp. Spilonotus "Tanzania" ---- *Peaceful, colored up. I have 2 9" males, they school together. I had 3. But the other one was a trouble maker.*
1 x Protomelas sp. Spilonotus "Mara Rocks" (Sulphur Head Haplochromis Ovatus) ---- *Peaceful, colored up*
1 x Protomelas taeniolatus (Red Empress) 
1 x Sciaenochromis Sp.Nyassae
1 x Tramitichromis sp. Intermedius ---- *possesed, no luck so far. I am on my 3rd male....so far so good.*

-PEACOCKS-
1 x Aulonocara Stuartgranti "Hai Reef" (Blue Neon)
1 x Aulonocara baenschi (benga) ---*soon to be rehomed, though lower in the food chain, but wants to kill other peacocks*
1 x Aulonocara (Rubescens) ---- *Peaceful, colored up but can be better if not for the evil Benga above.*
1 x Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Hongi Is.) ---- *Jakes, 9/10 are psychotics. All have been rehomed or killed by dominant Haps !!!*
1 x Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Rostratum)
1 x Aulonocara Maulana (Bi-colour 500)


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

I think it is pretty much just buy some fish and have them work it out. Keep it somewhat crowded, you know you will have to remove fish. Try to be somewhat sensible (yeah, it's hard).

Please do not use wild caught fish for such tanks, except maybe older fish that needed rehomed. You can have fun, but don't try to do too much.


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## Bracken606 (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback Noki, just what I was hoping to hear. I dont want to give up on the very fish I want particularly in a this size tank. As long as I am prepared to remove or replaceand have the best care of the fish in mind.

Chopsteeks you are awesome, just what I was looking for, personal feedback on someone who has/does keep these fish. As I said earlier I cant go into this blindly thinking it will work without trial and error, but that doesn't stop us keeping the fish that are challenging as long as we can provide the correct environment for them.

Oh and the jacob peacock is already on the cut list.


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