# Sick yellow lab, shredded fins, white patch?



## teacherdavid (May 26, 2013)

Wondering how to proceed with my seemingly sick yellow lab. 
Tank is at work; on Friday the fish were fine, as of this morning (sunday) this guy's lookin' bad. I think he's sick and not just injured because *most fins (dorsal, caudal, and pelvic/pectoral) are looking shredded (rot?) and he's acting strange* -- let me net him very easily almost got him out of the tank with my bare hand on the first try. I recently acquired 6 nerite snails (to eat algae) and I'm suspecting they may have brought a pathogen with them. I'm not sure if the fish is eating; his *behavior is just way off*. He hangs out towards the very top of the tank by the filter or powerhead and I have since increased circulation/aeration to help with oxygenation of tank water. * I'm also noticing some white/red discoloration, which makes me think columnaris... watch the video closely/full screen you should see what I mean.*

*Treatment: *
Using http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/t ... t_tips.php here,
I have increased the temp to ~83F and added some aquarium salt at half the recommended dosage, may add more tomorrow.
Increased circulation/aeration
I'll probably QT tomorrow with more salt at 86 deg F, possibly with an antibiotic.

*Fish:*
55gal - 7 Yellow Labs and 7 Rusties, I feed dainichi cichlid veggie, ocean nutrition cichlid vegi and cichlid omni. Has been cycled since september (all fish at once in mid/late sept '13)

*Water: *
Temp was at 80 now up to 83
NH3 consistently at 0ppm 
NO2 again 0PPM, 
NO3 I can never read but its less than 40 and more than 20... so *30ppm*?
pH is a stable 8.2 (limestone/aragonite sand) , 
GH and KH are both quite high. 
I use Prime in tap water and probably add too much but nothing excessive.

*Video*


----------



## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

He may have gotten into a fight with another fish and now, in his weakened state, he's got something bacterial going on. Could be Columnaris. The snails may have brought something in but bacterial infections are often oportunistic--they only bring down a fish that is already compromised by some sort of stress. 
Hanging at the top is often a sign that a fish is being bullied. I would definitely remove this fish ASAP to a hospital tank. Keep the temp low, at 76', as Columnaris spreads quicker at higher temps. Something with Kanamycin will work well to treat most bacterial diseases.

The snails. Well it may be too late but once they get going in your tank they can become a real nuisance. Clog up filters and just over take a tank. A better choise is a bristlenose pleco, (NOT the common pleco that grows to be a foot long) Bristlnoses stay small, five inches and do a great job cleaning the tank.

Robin
On the main tank: I would increase the amount of water removed and frequency of you partial water changes until you get the nitrate reliably down below 20ppm--20ppm just before the water change.


----------



## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I just wanted to note that the Nerite snails won't reproduce in your tank so no worry about overpopulation.


----------



## teacherdavid (May 26, 2013)

That is precisely why I chose them!

Robin do you think this is columnaris? As I understand it high temps are indicated for most diseases except columnaris, having little esperience with sick fish I'm only going on descriptions and pictures online. My fish seems to be in the early signs of whatever he has, the discoloration is very slight and there's no classical columnaris fuzziness--not yet anyway. I'll go to school and see how he looks today.

Anyhow, I'm at the pet store and they're out of erythro and don't carry kantamycin, go figure. Next best bets are tetracycline, triple sulfa, or minocycline. Any suggestions? Im thinking of getting the tet or maybe all three they're pretty good about unopened returns


----------



## teacherdavid (May 26, 2013)

Correction they have erythro,

Suggestions?


----------



## teacherdavid (May 26, 2013)

Went ahead and purchased Mardel _Maracyn _and _Maracyn Two_, which contain erythromycin and minocycline, respectively. They're both broad spectrum antibiotics and are safe to use together. The idea behind using both medications was to cover a broader range of possible pathogens, as the cause of this fin rot is unknown. I guess I could take a sample and look at it under the microscope...its been years since I've done gram staining though!

At school now and the fish looks a bit worse than yesterday, as I unfortunately expected. Tail fin is the worst as fin rays are mostly gone, the other fins appear unchanged from yesterday. *edit* the red discoloration is slightly worse, but not a 'lesion' of any kind, nor a 'saddle' as is common with columnaris. The fish has what appear to be tiny red spots which collectively look like a reddish area. I'll post a pic if I can get a good one.

Went ahead and threw the sick guy in a 30gal QT tank with only 10gal of water, heat, salt (2Tbs), both medications, a few rocks for comfort, crushed coral for pH, and a small powerhead for circulation. Any suggestions would be helpful as this is the first time I am dealing with a sick fish. I bought 14 fish back in Sept and haven't lost one yet, I'd like to keep it that way but I do understand that may be unrealistic.


----------



## teacherdavid (May 26, 2013)

*Caudal rot, nearly gone. Also red 'sores' of some kind* (Blood?).









*Body shows no obvious signs*


----------



## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I would guess aggression to be the cause. I don't think there are any ailments that are going to eat away at a fin that quickly. Try the Maracyn 1 and 2, keep the temp down, don't raise it above 76. Most bacterial infections thrive in warmer temps. Aeration, frequent water changes and a cycled filter (with no chemical filtration while medicating) are key to helping fish recover from injury and preventing infection from spreading. Monitor water parameters periodically as erythromycin can be harsh on nitrifying bacteria. At this point you don't want an ammonia spike.


----------



## teacherdavid (May 26, 2013)

GTZ said:


> I would guess aggression to be the cause. I don't think there are any ailments that are going to eat away at a fin that quickly.


*GTZ, Thanks for this advice that really makes sense after thinking about it! :thumb:

Robin, I did successive water changes to lower nitrates in the main tank, and thank you for suggesting kanamycin right off the bat that is definitely a good medication to recommend, wish I had found it sooner! Yes he was likely bullied which gave the bacteria a foothold--it makes sense to me now that in an aquatic environment virulent bacteria are prevalent and infections are opportunistic.*

I'm thinking this fish may need to find a new home, or maybe he shall be king of the juvi grow-out tank... It wouldn't be wise to reintroduce him to his aggressors, would it?

Here's the treatment that I followed, perhaps it may help someone in the future:

After doing some extensive reading on aquarium medications on http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/aquariummedication2.html it was clear to me that the erythromycin and minocycline were poor choices for this situation. The Erythro is very harsh on nitrifying bacteria (read: ammonia spike) and minocycline is readibly absorbed by calcium and as such is a "poor choice" in an african cichlid tank, and yes now I feel like I'm back in college :roll: .

I did a complete water change (with aged, correct temp and pH water) and added Kanamycin (Seachem Kanaplex) following the label's directions. I also lowered the temp as low as the heater would go (78, though dial was set at its lowest setting of 68) and also threw in a make-shift filter filled with a handful of substrat from the main tank. I was not worried about columnaris as the fish showed none of the typical signs of columnaris and his symptoms did not progress--the white/red discoloration on the body and caudal peduncle was likely bite marks from the more dominant males in the tank. On about the 3rd or 4th day (2nd dose of kanamycin) the fish had his appetite back :dancing: , and was acting much more normal! On his first day in the hospital tank the fish was unable to swim properly--running into things (even got stuck to the powerhead intake  ) and was just sitting (upright) on the substrate looking...sad. With successive doses of medication he was up, swimming around the tank, hiding behind rocks without running into them, and not sitting on the bottom--hovering with his little pectoral fins fluttering like the wings of a hummingbird. Also, I have closely monitored the remaining 13 fish in the main tank and there are no significant signs of fighting (except my rusties typical white lips), leading me to believe this was indeed aggression and not a disease outbreak. Also, I have 2 or 3 females holding; anyone in SoCal want some free yellow labs?

There is now some visible re-growth on all damaged fins (they were all showing _some_ damage, though the tail was the worst) as the edges are rounding out and clear webbing is forming around the lengthening fin rays. Only time will tell if these fins will heal properly.


----------

