# Best way to lower pH and soften water



## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

I decided to start a new thread to ask a more specific question:

My tank: 30"x12x12 20g Long 
Fish: 2 new x Mikrogeophagus ramirezi (1m, 1f judging by color and finnage) <- will probably add dither fish later, like tetras, and cories.

I'm worried about shocking the rams...so with that in mind:

1) What is the best way to lower pH? My tap water comes out at 8.0.
And how slowly should I change it?

2) What is the best way to soften the water? I live in the mountains, so...(I'll add dechlorinator as well).

3) My temp. is 80d F--I plan to go to 84; I know I should do it slowly. Over how much time should I adjust the heater till I get to 84?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

No suggestions? :-?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

RO or rain water. Then add something like Indian almond leaves, Ehiems efhi torf peat, or Canadian sphagnum moss that will leach acidic tannins to help bring down the PH.

One thing I will say, is do not use chemicals, such as PH down, to try and make water softer.


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Right--I'm not pro-chemical unless it's absolutely necessary so that's fine with me 

And my rams are still stressed (probably because the water's so hard)--but the stripes are lighter and they're so colorful! I can't wait till the stress bars are completely gone 

Also, I don't know how great my heater is...but the settings go from 82 and then 86--which would be the better temp to set it at? I raised the temp. overnight from 80 to 82. I'll wait till tonight to switch it again (or leave it as is).


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Can't help you with the temperature too much, but why don't you stop the dial on the heater temp controll halfway between 82 and 86.


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Yeah that's work. It's actually a Celsius thermometer...that's why it jumps like that.


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## irondan (Nov 22, 2007)

i have a ram colony that is thriving. i needed to lower ph so i added a large amt of driftwood and live plants to the tank. ph has dropped from 8.2 to 7.4. when i do water changes, i use half RO water and half tap. the tank has been running 4 years with no probs and the rams are beautiful.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... oct113.jpg


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

And when you say RO water? I know there are filters like this....


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## irondan (Nov 22, 2007)

i buy 10 gallons at a time at a culligan store and add equal amounts of each when i do changes. my tank is 35 gallons so i dont need enough to install a system


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## car0linab0y (Aug 10, 2009)

If it's a planted tank, CO2 will drop your pH.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

pH is less important than the soft water. They usually go hand in hand, but not always. RO is probably the easiest, unless your willing to collect rain water.


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## loopslike (Nov 10, 2010)

The truth is lowering PH can easily cause instabilities in the tank, and it's best not to force them down at all. It's important to recognize the tolerence of fish, how they are captive bred and don't 'need' a specific PH and the healthiest thing for them is usually just to leave your water alone.

If you are keeping one of the rare fragile fish that needs a very low PH, or you are breeding fish that will only breed in low PH water, then the only real stable way to do it is to mix Reverse osmosis or distilled water with your tap water to reach desired results - and need to do it at every water change of course.


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## Bruce Haynes (Sep 8, 2010)

RO water isn't going to lower your pH. What it does is filter out all dissolved solids and chemicals etc. You have really clean water, but if the water has a high pH to begin with it will probably have a high pH after going thru the RO filters. It softens water but generally it does not affect the pH. I agree it is best to not fiddle with the pH. Instablility will be the result and you will have disastrous after effects. I use RO water but my pH is still very high. The fish don't seem to mind, even GBR's are happy. I have a friend that keeps discus very healthy and very happy in RO water and the pH is way over 8.0. so...if it ain't broke ...


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## Chromedome52 (Jul 25, 2009)

The problem with super soft water such as RO is that pH crashes can occur very quickly from decaying food and fish waste. Using something in the system to lower pH, such as peat, oak leaves, or almond leaves, will actually serve to stabilize the pH, as the tannic/humic acids that lower the pH also help to keep it from dropping too far or too fast.


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## turbos73 (Oct 28, 2010)

I totally agree. I have a couple blue rams living just fine in hard water with a PH of 8.0. I mix a little r.o. water in with my water changes and that seems to suit them just fine.


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## Bruce Haynes (Sep 8, 2010)

Learned something new today very cool. I have been using RO water with no issues for a long time, but will watch the ph a little closer. I do water changes up to 25% a week so I am sure that helps too.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Bruce Haynes said:


> RO water isn't going to lower your pH. What it does is filter out all dissolved solids and chemicals etc.


You can add tannic acids to RO water to lower the ph once you have removed the disolved solids that act as a buffer against lowering ph. Just as adding disolved minerals will rise the PH of nuetral water, acids will lower thr PH of nuetral water.

Where I live, most of the soft water fish keepers use rain water collected in Rain Water tanks rather than RO water. I have a 52 gallon barrel that I mix and age my water in. I add Sphagnum moss to the barrel with a 50/50 mix of tap water and rain water.


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## Bruce Haynes (Sep 8, 2010)

Can you add stone such as limestone to a tank to keep the water somewhat hard? This is very interesting. My CA as well as my SA cichlids do very well in RO and freely spawn but the CA'a would probably appreciate harder water. This is a great topic, thanks!


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I've never kept African cichlids before, so have never tried to raise PH. I have read that many African cichlid keepers use crushed coral in their filters to raise PH.

I'd like to know why you are using RO in the first place.


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## Bruce Haynes (Sep 8, 2010)

The water around here is beyond disgusting. It was completely contaminated with an old tire factory runoff that used to be here...and was here for decades. Half the time the water is a disgusting yellow or brown. I would never ever use that water in an aquarium. The RO filter takes care of all that disgust and makes the water very clean. All the fish are doing real well and I could not in good conscience make them live in gross water that I only use to shower in and flush the toilet. I guess that is it in a nutshell.


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## gomlin (Apr 28, 2004)

I throw some dried oak leaves into my filter media baskets every so often. Have read that it can increase tanins and lower PH. Unfortunately I don't have RO so I can't do a whole lot with hardness. Thought about trying some peat as well.


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## Bruce Haynes (Sep 8, 2010)

I thought of that myself but figured it was more hassle than an RO filter because you would still have to do water changes and unless you are keeping a large supply (in my case) of peat filtered water it would constantly be messing with the water parameters if you were adding tap water in place of what was removed. So for simplicity sake RO isn't a bad way to go. The whole contraption cost me >$300 and it is a really good one. I know it is debatable among aquarists (and I don't intend to get involved in any such debates) and everything has it's shortcomings, but honestly, I have yet to have a problem with RO.


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## gomlin (Apr 28, 2004)

Well, Maybe not. I am currently experimenting with a DIY algae scrubber on my tank so that eventually I will only have to occasionally do water changes. I have included a link to the thread discussing this below. Fair warning it is VERY VERY long. Pictures of my scrubber are located on the next to the last page.

Jim


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## gomlin (Apr 28, 2004)

Oops I forgot the link LOL!

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... p?t=180385


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## toume (Oct 7, 2010)

Hey guys, thought I'd offer an update:

I've decided against an RO filter for now.
I'm getting water by the 5g--it's RO filtered, then goes through 4 stages of UV sterilization and 3 stages of activated carbons (it's drinking water--pretty anal, but pretty good for my fish).
Not the best option I know, but I do what I can for my fish, and this seems the best option for now (and it's only a 20L--in comparison to my 55/75g it's so small).

I started with 2 rehomed GBRs--one male, one female. However, my friend had them for only 2 days, but they got torn up by the African in the tank (really bad mix...bad decision on her part, but oh well). They were both pumped full of hormones, and the male came with ich--the female's immune system crashed and she died. The male survived--he's absolutely _gorgeous_!

I've recently gotten two more females (I know b/c they're also unfortunately pumped full of hormones, though hopefully they don't have ich--quarantined for now). One is definitely more dominant than the other, and the sub-dom gets picked on (<- anything I can do about that?). 
We'll see how they do. I may have to rehome the second female.

I have yet to test the pH of the filtered water, but I hope it's softer--I don't have a test for this.
The pH is 7, and the best I can do.

I'm just trying to keep the levels stable. I don't see any stress color, so....(fingers crossed).
I don't want to play with oak leaves, and worry about them decaying in my tank and killing my fish. I'm going with the simplest solution for now.

Thank you for all your knowledge on this subject!
PS- I was most surprised to hear the rams did OK with high pH water (my tap is 8.2-8.4).
I know that tank-raised are very different from wild caught, but I thought they'd choke on the minerals, :lol:


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