# Tank cycling



## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

So I've got a 55g and I've had it at my place for roughly four month. I was holding my fish in two ten gallon tanks while setting it up. Now I never let it cycle before adding the fish in fear of them dying in my tens. The water is somewhat milky in color which I've read as to be beneficial bacteria. My question is how long will it take to fully cycle and become clear? I've got a cascade 1000 that filters 165 gallons an hour. I do weekly water changes of 25% with once a month of a 50% change. Are there any tips for me?


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## PlantFishMan (Oct 12, 2015)

How many fish do you have to add to the 55 and what type. No matter what I would recommend for a 55 w/AC's a turnover rate of 7-8 times. so you need to filter approx. 350-400gph. Plus I would add a small ( about 250-300gph) water circulation pump - Koralia maybe - and an air stone. Either add another canister filter that does at least 250gph ( to go along with your cascade ) or more or add a Marineland Emperor 400 HOB filter. Over filtration can't hurt the fish but the opposite can.


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

Well I've got the fish in there already, I waited maybe three or four days before putting them in the tank from the tens. I've got roughly 11 fish in there, some haps, a couple of jewel cichlids, and a couple of mbuna. Really?!? that much filtration. Holy cow and I thought what I had was enough lol.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Do you have a test kit to see what your ammonia and nitrite levels are? If I understand your post correctly, it sounds like you're cycling the 55 with fish, right?

You need to add some filtration. The cascade 1000 on it's own is inadequate for your stocking level.

How are your fish acting?


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

I do and my levels are great. Ammonia is usually 0 and nitrite 0 as well. Yeah I suppose you can say I'm cycling it with fish. The fish are acting absolutely fine. They have never acted odd for me to think that the water is bad. Actually now that you say it, my fish lately have just started to get like some cloudy eyes, which I've read into can be from dirty water.... Dang and I thought that my filtration was adequate.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Jbaas558 said:


> I do and my levels are great. Ammonia is usually 0 and nitrite 0 as well.


Ammonia "usually" being 0 means your levels are not great. It means your tank is not cycled.

If your fish survive, it usually takes 3-4 weeks to cycle a tank (same as if you did a fishless cycle). Were the 10 gallon tanks cycled? If so, you could put the filters you had on them on to the 55. It'll help you cycle faster.

Don't feed the fish (or feed very lightly) and increase the surface agitation on the water. It'll increase the odds of the fish staying alive.


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

Well the canaster filter I have is the one my buddy had it running on before giving it to me. I've just recently started pointing the spray bar up more to create more water agitation. Um, the two 10 gallons might have been running a week without fish in them. I had used the sponge filter that my buddy had in the 55 for one of the tanks and then just used a small hang on the back filter that my buddy had used on his salt water tank that I cleaned out on the other 10 gallon. I was feeding twice a day. Then cut it down to once a day. Possibly will go to once every other day. I mean my fish have been in this tank for roughly four months. I think they should be fine. My substrate is sand. And my mbuna like to dig and I know when I've moved some of my rocks before I watch the beneficial bacteria just float up. I'm wanting to put like a panty hose over the mouth of my siphon so I can stick in into the sand and clean it a little, or do I want that in my sand? I'm roughly new to all this tank stuff, have maybe been doing it for a year. I know some, but yeah I do the water changes weekly. I can the floss in the canister weekly with the water changes. I know there was one time that I had rinsed off the sponge filter in the canister cause it was dirty, not knowing that I should rinse it out in "clean" tank water so I don't lose the beneficial bacteria.


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## PlantFishMan (Oct 12, 2015)

As far as I know "beneficial bacteria" doesn't "float up", there is really not a lot in the water column. It's every where else though - on the glass, decorations, rocks, filter, etc...., and ESPECIALLY in the sand/substrate! My advice since the tank is still cycling don't vacuum the sand for another 3-4 weeks. If your using something like the "python" for water changes - which is what I use - hold it over the sand just enough to suck up poop/debris but not the sand. It takes practice but eventually you'll be able to do it. IMO you definitely need to add another type of filtration, either a second canister or HOB. If Emperor 400 is too much $$, try the 280 instead or anything else that has a "bio wheel"- the wheels hold a TON of good nitrifying bacteria.
Good luck and keep us informed.


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

Yeah I don't typically vacuum the sand, just when I was moving some rock I noticed a bunch of stuff that floated up. So I was thinking about it, but I'll leave it be. Yeah, I don't know what I'm going to do. I think I'm just going to try and be patient see if it doesn't clear itself up. I'm hoping on moving and being able to get a 125g so I can put my 5 fish I've got in my 10g grow out tank, which I just got a 55g that is going to be their new home once I get it up and cycled first, how long would you say to let it run before putting the fish in there? 2-3 weeks or 3-4 weeks? Im going to be putting a sponge filter that I know has good beneficial bacteria in it. And I've heard that I could even use some of the "cleaner" water like from the top portion of my tank to put that in there compared to just all new treated water with prime in it. I don't know got lots going on. Appreciate all the advice, and will keep you posted. Thanks.


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## PlantFishMan (Oct 12, 2015)

As mentioned before the water column doesn't contain much "good" bacteria so using top, middle or bottom doesn't help cylce. a small amount of substrate form an already cycled tank - put in a pantyhose sock and in your canister filter will speed up the process - it's called "seeding the tank". For a new tank you could add a few hardy fish, feed lightly, and after a few days check ammonia levels they should strt to rise and watch your fish. if the levels rise over 1ppm do a 50% w/c. when the level is finally zero ( after a bout a week or little less) start checking for nitrite once that starts to rise again keep an eye on the fish and W/c if neccassary. When those levels are zero and you check and start seeing nitrate the tank is cycled. this can take on average - depending on bioload - 4-6 weeks. As I mentioned before to speed up the process by a couple of weeks "seed" the tank and/or by one of the nitrifying bacteria in a bottle, I use either Tetra Safe Start Plus or Fluval Cycle. I also always use one of these products when introducing new fish, even to an already established tank. Once again I STRONGLY URGE YOU TO ADD EXTRA FILTRATION!! Good Luck!!


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

Okay, well thanks for the advice. I will keep you posted as to how things go.


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

Okay, so I was totally doing my water tests wrong, I had never read the instructions on how to do them. So I tested my ammonia level and it is at 0, my nitrite level is at 0 as well , and my nitrate level is somewhere between 20-40ppm. Now is this a bad thing to have a reading like that? I did just add a marineland penguin 350 HOB. I don't have the bio-wheels in it yet as I had to order them. This filter is said to do 350gph.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

You want to keep nitrates down well below 20ppm. Do a couple of 50% water changes and then see how long it takes you to get up to 20ppm. That'll tell you how often you need to change water with your current stocking level.


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

Okay, I just did a probably a 25-35% change four days ago. Okay, thanks for the tip.


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

Okay so I don't know whats going on. I just did a 50% water change yesterday cause of the nitrate levels being so high. I just checked them today and I'd say they're probably between 20-40 or even 40-80. I'm really concerned about them since I just did such a large volume water change. Do you think I need to test just my water from the sink?


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

It is rare that your tap water would have nitrates, but it is really easy to test and will make you feel more at ease. Those chemical tests are somewhat difficult to read in the 20-80 region and because of that I would not freak out until something is clearly not working. So if your tap has no nitrates and you had 40ppm to start with in the tank...when you do a 50% water change then you would expect 20ppm to be the resulting reading. This may be difficult to tell apart from the original reading. I would recommend doing daily 30-50% water changes until you see it get to the region you would like it to be. After that point (probably 5ppm or less), you should be able to figure out how quickly nitrates are building up in your tank. When you are doing this process, make sure to suck up the poop in your tank and ensure there are no dead fish lying around under some rocks. Also consider how dirty your mechanical filtration is also as that is still capable of decaying.

I personally try to keep it under 20 and know I need to change something if its in the 40 range. Since you are possibly still cycling the tank, it could be odd behavior from that.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Always good to test tap water...some farming areas do have nitrates. 20-40 or 48-80 sounds like strips...are you using liquid test kits?


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

Aaron, I'm not cycling this tank. Its been running for roughly 4-5 months now. Our water is from a well, so I don't know if that makes any difference. I was just under the assumption that the nitrates level would go down after doing a 50% water change, not stay the same or even go up. Yeah DJRansome, I'm using the liquid API Freshwater Master test kit.


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## PlantFishMan (Oct 12, 2015)

If the fish look healthy and there isn't a lot of algae growing you might be reading the test kit wrong. I have the API master kit too but I also use Seachem Nitrate test kit , I think that's more accurate than API. Have you ever thought of trying some plants? I have mostly planted tanks but now have a 75g AC tank and just today put in 20 Vallisnaria and several varieties of anubias' . these plants will grow in alkaline & hard water. Plants could help a little with the nitrate problem. When there is no more ammonia for them to consume they will start to consume nitrates for growth. That's why in my planted tanks ( heavily planted, co2 , etc..) I never have a problem with nitrates even if I don't do a water change for a month. On the few occasions I do test, it is usually less than 10ppm. Depending on the fish you should give plants a try.


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

The fish have always looked healthy. The biggest problem I've ever seen is sometimes the get the very little cloudiness on one maybe two of the fishes eyes. Which is usually resolved fairly quickly. I don't know if you've read any of the old post, but I'm trying to clear my tank up due to a slight cloudiness in the water. I was told I needed more filtration so I got more. I had been testing my water levels all wrong the whole time so I've been testing them correctly and just found this Nitrate problem. I've got a couple pieces of driftwood in my tank that was placed, maybe a month ago, maybe a month and a half. I've heard that decaying plants can raise the nitrate level. Didn't know if this would be from the driftwood?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Aaron S said:


> I would recommend doing daily 30-50% water changes until you see it get to the region you would like it to be.


Plus one. I'd go with the daily 50%. I like to see 20ppm before a water change and 10ppm after a water change.

Take the test tube into daylight and hold it against the card. Look through the water and choose the closest color. The higher numbers are close but you should be able to distinguish between 20ppm and 40ppm pretty easily.

Cloudy eyes occasionally is a health issue and could indicate water problems.


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## PlantFishMan (Oct 12, 2015)

Seachem's Purigen is very good at controlling nitrates. It doesn't lower them but prevents them from increasing. So as an example if your nitrates are 10, 15, 20 ppm once placed in your filter ( 100ml sachet bag is good for up to 75g) it will keep those levels from rising, so if you can get the levels down to 10ppm, it won't increase above that with Purigen. I'm using it one of my filters for my 75g AC tank - 30 juveniles - nitrate is between 10-15ppm and now with the plants added eventually will be able to get it down to <10ppm. Also the great thing about Purigen is it is rechargeable, so your able to use it over & over again. It also comes loose in 250ml & 500ml containers. The particles are very fine so a regular filter bag is too porous, seachem sells a filter bag for it called "The Bag" ( 800 microns) but it's expensive. The easiest way to contain it is to use a pantyhose sock and just tie off the end. Some thing to think about. Good luck.


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

And I could just throw that in the back of my marineland penguin 350 right in a pantyhose or the bag they provide.


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## Jbaas558 (Nov 19, 2015)

My nitrate levels are just crazy. I just checked my levels in my show tank after doing a 50% water change maybe 5 hours ago and my nitrate level is up to 40-80ppm. How am I suppose to get them down if I just did a 50% water change. I test just our well water using the API freshwater master kit, and in the test tube my nitrate levels I'd say was anywhere for 5-10. So do I just have high nitrate levels in my water. My fish have never acted in any way to make me concerned that they're in danger, but I definitely don't like seeing my levels so high.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

The damage to fish from high nitrates occurs slowly over the long-term so you're not likely to notice anything now. I would put plants in the tank or use some kind of nitrate reducing product to help address the problem.

Are you drinking the tap water? If so, that's probably a concern too.


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## PlantFishMan (Oct 12, 2015)

As mentioned before it's always good to cross check a test with another brand. So if you have API try using Seachem's Nitrate test kit. As also mentioned before IMO I think it's a little more accurate than API. At the end of my 75g tank's cycling API kept reading 40+ppm in nitrates while the Seachem test read between 10 - 20ppm. Plus like I and zimmy suggested PLANTS. Good quality plants with reasonable prices including for S&H overnight - I'll pm you the name.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

To reduce 80ppm nitrates when your water has 10ppm nitrates...change 50% daily until you are down to 20ppm or so.

Then yes if you really have 10ppm nitrates in your tap water, try plants (vallisneria worked for me...actually too well) and call your water provider.

If you have a private well you might not want to call anyone...you don't want them to condemn it, LOL. But if it can be addressed, it's worth looking into.


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## PlantFishMan (Oct 12, 2015)

DJR. you mentioned : "vallisneria worked for me...actually too well". Just curious, what happened?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The vallisneria shot up and consumed all nitrates within a week. Then it did not have enough fertilizer and languished. I ended up with a nice crop of cyanobacteria.

Now I use medium fast growing plants for a balance that is easier to maintain. No planted tanks at this time...just a couple of crypts that summered on the deck.


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