# Will I Be Overstocked?



## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Wondering if this stock list would cause my new 75-gallon tank to become overstocked --

12 Tropheus Bemba Orange
12 Cyprichromis leptosoma (Blue Flash)
6 Julidochromis marlieri
1 Altolamprologus calvus (Yellow)
1 Eretmodus cyanostictus

If you think the cyps + tropheus combo isn't gonna work, tell me, although I'm actually kind of willing to take the risk after the research I've been trying to do... but humour me for a moment and at least say if I'd be overstocked.


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## plug (Nov 10, 2013)

Not an expert on Tropheus, but it appears to be way overstocked for a 75 gallon tank, as Tropheus are pretty aggressive fish and I believe most people have higher numbers than 12


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

I wouldn't do less than 18 tropheus and I wouldn't keep cyps with them (yes I have tried)
I also wouldn't keep a single goby.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

noddy said:


> I wouldn't do less than 18 tropheus and I wouldn't keep cyps with them (yes I have tried)
> I also wouldn't keep a single goby.


What happened when you tried to keep them with cyprichromis? Is there any way to make it work? Can I have Tropheus duboisi with cyps, since they seem to be of a calmer temperament? (at least towards other species)


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

679x said:


> noddy said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't do less than 18 tropheus and I wouldn't keep cyps with them (yes I have tried)
> ...


The Tropheus sheared the fins off the cyps and the cyps were unable to get enough food as the Trophs are lightning quick.
The cyps suffered to the point of wasting.
As far as dubs go, I still wouldn't try keeping Trophs in a group smaller than 18 (and I would personally keep them in a group of 24).
And that doesn't leave any room for a dozen cyps in 75g tank.
P.S, the biggest Trophs I have ever seen were Dubs. Not so sure there is any such thing as a calmer Tropheus.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would say you are overstocked as well. I would skip the tropheus and get more calvus. I think a 75G would be good with the cyps, two rock dweller pairs and 6 shellies or 5 Synodontis. Not sure what make good tank mates for gobies.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

DJRansome said:


> I would say you are overstocked as well. I would skip the tropheus and get more calvus. I think a 75G would be good with the cyps, two rock dweller pairs and 6 shellies or 5 Synodontis. Not sure what make good tank mates for gobies.


I can't find shells for shelldwellers and decided I would just skip them. Calvus are expensive, but I can get 4 for the price of 3 for all these fish during August, which will help with costs. How's this list sound?:

16 blue flash cyps (Can change that number if I need to)
4 Julidochromis marlieri
4 Altolamprologus calvus 'Yellow'
4 Buffaloheads (I know I'm not supposed to but I'm honestly willing to take a risk here.)
ORRRRR if not buffaloheads, some Synodontis multipunctatus?

Also, I think you and noddy have been replying to most of my threads on this site. Thank you, I appreciate (and need!) the help.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

I'd edit the post I just sent but I don't know how to edit it, if editing is even possible on this forum.

Anyway, can I add Leleupi to that list safely? I read they go well with Julidochromis and Altolamprologus.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Too many rock dwellers IMO. Maybe if you had a 72" tank. I'm omitting the buffalo heads from my consideration with that comment, since you basically said you are willing to put them at risk.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

DJRansome said:


> Too many rock dwellers IMO. Maybe if you had a 72" tank. I'm omitting the buffalo heads from my consideration with that comment, since you basically said you are willing to put them at risk.


I didn't mean it like that  !! I meant that I would take a risk simply by getting them and see how they fare in the tank. If there are ANY problems whatsoever, including if they simply aren't having the greatest time, back to the store they go. I didn't mean that I would deliberately put their lives at risk. Now I wish I could edit that.

My LFS(s) don't have many Tanganyikan cichlids, which causes me to have to have a bunch of rockdwellers and whatnot on my stock list, which in turn is partly why I keep trying to find ways to make Tropheus work, so I wouldn't just end up with some Cyps and some rockdwellers, and also why I keep uncomfortably shoving fish onto my potential stock list. Some fish I haven't mentioned yet are Callochromis macrops, Callochromis pleurospilus, and Ophthalmotilapia ventralis. Would any of these work?

I've considered ordering fish online but I don't know of a place that I can order online from that will ship to Canada. If I end up finding one, or if I simply ask my LFS to try to find it for me, would you or anyone else know of any fish that would be recommended for my stock list? That way, I can try to see if I can find it. (I still feel bad about saying I'd put the buffaloheads at risk. Lol.)


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'm surprised that your LFS does not have Victorians but they have Callochromis. The three tangs you mention want most of the bottom to themselves and are aggressive. For that reason I have not kept them. But I think if you wanted one of those for the bottom and cyps for the top that would be the type of stocking you would be looking at...lose the rock dwellers. And ventralis I was told not even to have 2 rock dwellers with them in a 72" tank.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

Thanks a ton, I need the help lol. I didn't mention those until now for that reason... aggression. If my LFS has any Tanganyikan gobies (I don't know which ones they sometimes get... Eretmodus cyanostictus and some others I think?) then I'd get those, but they didn't have any when I was there recently and they said that they only get them occasionally. It was a different LFS that had the buffaloheads. Anyway, how about if I tone down the numbers of the rockdwellers a bit? Would having gobies or buffaloheads add to the crowding of the rock areas?

16 or so Cyprichromis leptosoma blue flash
4 Julidochromis marlieri
1 yellow calvus
4 Eretmodus cyanostictus, or possibly some other goby, depending on what the LFS has.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

After watching videos of saltwater aquariums and comparing the colours of marine fish to the colours of cichlids, particularly Tropheus Ikola, I've realized that I can't quite give up on Tropheus just yet. Now I have TWO different potential stock lists, but the new one depends on whether Julidochromis regani can be kept with any type of Tropheus (and also if my LFS will ever have any Tanganyikan gobies any time soon...)

As stated before, there isn't a whole lot of variety when it comes to Tanganyikan cichlids at my LFS(s), and my family has told me that they don't want to see just one type of fish in the tank, and also don't want to see a stressful tank full of aggressive, quarrelling fish. This means that I'd have to have more than just Tropheus in the tank to keep everyone happy, which raises the question of whether the fish will be happy, or have no Tropheus at all.

Can Julidochromis regani thrive in a tank of Ikola Tropheus? Can Eretmodus cyanostictus thrive in that same tank? If it's a gamble I'll stick with the other stock list with the cyps. It's just that Tropheus Ikola seem to be the closest one can get to the beauty of a marine tank, but without the salt. I just can't decide.


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## awanderingmoose (Aug 11, 2016)

> family has told me that they don't want to see just one type of fish in the tank, and also don't want to see a stressful tank full of aggressive, quarrelling fish.


Sounds like Tropheus maybe aren't optimal given those constraints?



> 16 blue flash cyps (Can change that number if I need to)
> 4 Julidochromis marlieri
> 4 Altolamprologus calvus 'Yellow'
> 4 Buffaloheads (I know I'm not supposed to but I'm honestly willing to take a risk here.)


Instead of the buffaloheads, why not a group of synodontis? I find syno petricola/lucipinnis to be some of the most interesting & enjoyable fish to have (heresy, I'm sure, on a cichlid forum). They're better in numbers, I'd suggest 6+.

Were it me, I'm not sure I'd go with 16 of the cyps, maybe 10-12ish or so.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

awanderingmoose said:


> > family has told me that they don't want to see just one type of fish in the tank, and also don't want to see a stressful tank full of aggressive, quarrelling fish.
> 
> 
> Sounds like Tropheus maybe aren't optimal given those constraints?
> ...


Yea, that's what I was saying about the constraints. I'm trying to work things out lol

After taking a good look at the finished tank, there's a decent amount of open space, which is why I thought 16 was an OK number of Cyps. Which is also why it can be a problem to have too many rockdwellers which was a problem that was addressed earlier in this thread.

I'm also considering Synodontis multipunctatus since they're the only ones I can find at my LFS. I've fallen in love with the goby cichlids but the buffaloheads are the only ones that were actually available at the stores I went to at that moment in time, which was maybe a couple weeks ago. I'll be going to the LFS that sometimes has Tanganyikan gobies soon and when I do, I'll see if they have them, and if they don't have them, when they will. If it's too long, my impatient self might decide to go with the synos. But if I wanted a Tropheus tank, can I keep Synodontis multipunctatus with them? Or Synos with gobies? (I don't think that's a good idea though.)


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

679x said:


> After watching videos of saltwater aquariums and comparing the colours of marine fish to the colours of cichlids, particularly Tropheus Ikola, I've realized that I can't quite give up on Tropheus just yet. Now I have TWO different potential stock lists, but the new one depends on whether Julidochromis regani can be kept with any type of Tropheus (and also if my LFS will ever have any Tanganyikan gobies any time soon...)
> 
> As stated before, there isn't a whole lot of variety when it comes to Tanganyikan cichlids at my LFS(s), and my family has told me that they don't want to see just one type of fish in the tank, and also don't want to see a stressful tank full of aggressive, quarrelling fish. This means that I'd have to have more than just Tropheus in the tank to keep everyone happy, which raises the question of whether the fish will be happy, or have no Tropheus at all.
> 
> Can Julidochromis regani thrive in a tank of Ikola Tropheus? Can Eretmodus cyanostictus thrive in that same tank? If it's a gamble I'll stick with the other stock list with the cyps. It's just that Tropheus Ikola seem to be the closest one can get to the beauty of a marine tank, but without the salt. I just can't decide.


You have just described Tropheus to a "T".


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

noddy said:


> 679x said:
> 
> 
> > After watching videos of saltwater aquariums and comparing the colours of marine fish to the colours of cichlids, particularly Tropheus Ikola, I've realized that I can't quite give up on Tropheus just yet. Now I have TWO different potential stock lists, but the new one depends on whether Julidochromis regani can be kept with any type of Tropheus (and also if my LFS will ever have any Tanganyikan gobies any time soon...)
> ...


Exactly. That's the problem :lol:


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

679x said:


> noddy said:
> 
> 
> > 679x said:
> ...


I hope there's no rule against double-posting in a row cause I seem to be doing it a lot...

Anyway, went to an LFS that is further away than the others... They've got Synodontis petricola and Eretmodus cyanostictus  My family decided they'd enjoy seeing the beautiful Tropheus Ikola swimming around as long as there was some other type of fish in the tank. The LFS that has the Tropheus says that the following stock list would work well, so everyone (hopefully including the fish!!) should be happy.
16 Tropheus ikola
4 Julidochromis regani
4 Eretmodus cyanostictus

I may need to increase the height of the rock piles, since there's a decent amount of open space, but I'm going to get the Eretmodus and Julidochromis first, and then add the Tropheus later. During that time I'll see how these guys are handling things, and if they seem to need more caves/rocks/hiding spots, I'll add more rocks before I get the Tropheus. The only issue is that I also want to give the Tropheus lots of room -- 16 sounds like they might need it.

One thing I didn't ask the LFS was whether I could fit any Synodontis petricola in here. From what I understand, S. petricola are a species that enjoy being in groups, so I shouldn't get just one. But do I have room for any other bottom-dwelling fish? I really like the current stock list (Sorry Cyprichromis, maybe some other time. :lol but I've always wanted a group of Petricola or Multipunctatus. Can it happen? S. petricola with Eretmodus? Haven't found any info on it when I tried to research it. Thanks for all the help so far


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## joeyk (Aug 7, 2016)

If you can't find shells for the Shellie's, PVC elbows and end caps work as an excellent substitute


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

joeyk said:


> If you can't find shells for the Shellie's, PVC elbows and end caps work as an excellent substitute


Good for the fish but not for aesthetics.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

The tank cycling process has begun. I have until the end of August to get all the fish before the LFS's sale ends.

Anybody know if there are any plants I can put in with these fish, like maybe Vallisneria? I'd like to know so that I can get them before the sale ends. The tank will have yellow banded Tropheus Ikola, Eretmodus cyanostictus, Julidochromis regani and Synodontis petricola.


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## rufretic (Mar 30, 2015)

I keep a lot of colonies of tropheus and I've tried a lot of tank mates, not many do well. Your on the right path but I would eliminate the eretmodus. The julies and synos have always done fine for me. This will also give you more room to up your stocking of the tropheus. In a 75, your pretty limited, I prefer 125s, especially if you want tankmates. But working with what you have you should do 20 tropheus, try 2 pair of julies but you'll probably end up with one pair and 5 synos. IMO you'll have real good odds of a successful tank with that. I usually throw in one pleco as well, I like bristle nose because they stay small and do a great job of cleaning.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

rufretic said:


> I keep a lot of colonies of tropheus and I've tried a lot of tank mates, not many do well. Your on the right path but I would eliminate the eretmodus. The julies and synos have always done fine for me. This will also give you more room to up your stocking of the tropheus. In a 75, your pretty limited, I prefer 125s, especially if you want tankmates. But working with what you have you should do 20 tropheus, try 2 pair of julies but you'll probably end up with one pair and 5 synos. IMO you'll have real good odds of a successful tank with that. I usually throw in one pleco as well, I like bristle nose because they stay small and do a great job of cleaning.


Thanks for the tips. My LFS will get Eretmodus or Spathodus in September, so I've got some time to think about stocking. I also made the mistake of going to the LFS yesterday... I took a look at the Tropheus and realized I couldn't wait. So I came home with 16 new family members. So much for the rule of not getting Tropheus in the tank first :roll:


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

679x said:


> rufretic said:
> 
> 
> > I keep a lot of colonies of tropheus and I've tried a lot of tank mates, not many do well. Your on the right path but I would eliminate the eretmodus. The julies and synos have always done fine for me. This will also give you more room to up your stocking of the tropheus. In a 75, your pretty limited, I prefer 125s, especially if you want tankmates. But working with what you have you should do 20 tropheus, try 2 pair of julies but you'll probably end up with one pair and 5 synos. IMO you'll have real good odds of a successful tank with that. I usually throw in one pleco as well, I like bristle nose because they stay small and do a great job of cleaning.
> ...


Did you get them from Mike?
I bought quite a few groups from him when he was getting them from Reserve Stock Cichlids. Great quality F1's back then.


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## 679x (Jul 25, 2016)

noddy said:


> 679x said:
> 
> 
> > rufretic said:
> ...


You bet I did. He had just enough, too.

He advised me to use lots of Prime to help deal with the large amounts of ammonia that I'm getting in the tank. Only one death, but he was probably the smallest one and was always off alone in the corner. I'm doing daily water changes and using more Prime than I normally would put in. There's no such thing as 'too much prime', is there? Haven't fed them yet, although I plan on doing so tonight or tomorrow morning. The light's been off so that they can settle in better, and I also picked up an air pump and Northfin 1mm pellets (Regular cichlid formula and veggie formula.) I don't think there's much else I can do but wait for the tank parameters to stabilize.


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