# Mbunas Tall Tank??



## alexjones123 (Apr 2, 2014)

Hi all,

I have been keeping tropical fish for a while and have a number of tanks with various different species in them. I have recently moved house and now one of my tanks is the first thing you see when you walk in the front door. So I want to change this to a Mbuna tank. However, I have a question that I hope you lovely people may be able to help me with.

The tank dimensions are: W62cm (24.5"), H72cm (28.3") and D39cm (15.4") with a volume of 130L (34 US gallons). So a tall tank rather than long. My questions is will this work for mbunas?

I have asked many different people ranging from mbuna keepers to numerous LFS staff and all have given me opposing advice. Some said it will work some said it won't.

I was hoping somebody on here may be able to answer the question for me.

Obviously, I have looked into this on the internet but wanted to get some first hand advice if anybody has any to offer.

Thanks,

Alex


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

i always prefer length to height, but thats just a personal preference. tall will work with mbuna. i would pack it full of rock, when i say pack it i mean pack it. u will have the mbuna going in and out of ever nook and cranny. it'll look great


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## cumbrianewbie (Jul 25, 2013)

I would imagine you are getting differing advice because some people see anything less than a swimming pool as being 'small' in Cichlid tank terms.

In an ideal world, would you use a shorter/taller tank? No

Will your tank happily hold a small selection of Mbuna? Yes

As long as you stock a dwarf species, like Ps Saulosi or Cynotilapia Jalo Reef (a couple of my faves) then there is no reason why it should not work. You just don't want to try putting any of the big Hap's (for example) in there as there would not be enough room.


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

since haps are not mbuna, i dont believe the op was considering that anyway.


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## alexjones123 (Apr 2, 2014)

Hey,

Thanks for coming back so quickly. Great advice. I have been looking at the smaller species of mbuna and decided to go with them rather than larger species or haps.

Most people have been saying that I need a huge tank for mbuna but I knew that wasn't true. Glad to hear you think it would work.

I will get to buying some more rocks and setting up!

Thanks,

Alex


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

AFAIK 30" long is the minimum for small mbuna. This tank is only 24". I wouldn't put any Mbuna in there at all.


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

30" is minimum? says who. if u pack it full of rock then they have height and depth of caves also. 24" would work fine if u set it up right. i've done it.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

sumthinfishy said:


> 30" is minimum? says who.


 Everybody. Can't do mbuna in under 30" and only 1 or 2 species are appropriate for 30". It's the bare minimum. 
Don't be a bad fish keeper.


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## miDnIghtEr20C (Aug 13, 2013)

I say go for how you want to.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

miDnIghtEr20C said:


> I say go for how you want to.


With no regards for the space requirements of the fish?


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## AlCzervik (Oct 6, 2012)

Height means very little in mbuna tank. Cichlids are territorial and territory is square inches of tank bottom not open water. That tank is way to small to be used for mbuna. Look in the library on this site for stocking guidelines and species profiles.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

:thumb:


AlCzervik said:


> Height means very little in mbuna tank. Cichlids are territorial and territory is square inches of tank bottom not open water. That tank is way to small to be used for mbuna. Look in the library on this site for stocking guidelines and species profiles.


 :thumb:


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

height is completely relevant when there is multiple levels with multiple floors. picture 24" on top of 24" on top if 24". perhaps u dont understand what i mean by PACK it with rock. i cant believe that anyone is arrogant enough to think that a fish in a glass box is "ok" . your 30" or 72" for that matter is no different than the op 24" when compared to the lake they belong in. please dont pull this high and mighty stuff when u are just as "bad of a fishkeeper" as anyone for imprisoning them in a glass box in your living room for your own amusement


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## miDnIghtEr20C (Aug 13, 2013)

pablo111 said:


> miDnIghtEr20C said:
> 
> 
> > I say go for how you want to.
> ...


Depends on how many he gets and rock setup imo. He can get a couple in there. Trial and error. People learn from experience. Some even defy the odds. Like Darth Plagueis.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

sumthinfishy said:


> height is completely relevant when there is multiple levels with multiple floors. picture 24" on top of 24" on top if 24". perhaps u dont understand what i mean by PACK it with rock. i cant believe that anyone is arrogant enough to think that a fish in a glass box is "ok" . your 30" or 72" for that matter is no different than the op 24" when compared to the lake they belong in. please dont pull this high and mighty stuff when u are just as "bad of a fishkeeper" as anyone for imprisoning them in a glass box in your living room for your own amusement


That's some flawless logic you have there. I submit to your superior intellect.


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## Thalas_shaya (Mar 10, 2014)

According to Mary Bailey (co-author with Ad Konings of "Enjoying Cichlids"):
One major criterion of keeping cichlids is available bottom space (territory) and escape space (tank length) allowing any fish to get a decent distance away from an aggressor. 100 gallons could be a tall tower of a tank, a cube, a triangular corner tank but what Malawi cichlids require is a traditional long rectangular box unless you are talking about an immense, public-aquarium-type, tank which is wider than the length of a normal domestic tank so the escape space is two-dimensional. By the way, escape upwards is not a solution, because there will be no cover at the top, the fish will be exposed and stressed, and a sitting target for any persistent persecutor. And in my experience a Malawi cichlid trying to hide in an upper corner of a tank will be picked on by all and sundry, as its behavior is abnormal and invites attention.

Volume and tank height do assume a degree of importance with the open water cichlids, but for the rest it is bottom area that is important.

Source: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/St ... Bailey.htm


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

never claimed to be superior. i give advice based on my own experiences and common sense. not really sure how me making a statement that mskes perfect sense qualifies as thinking im superior. we dont have to agree. thats the beauty of a forum. have a good day.


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

Thalas_shaya said:


> According to Mary Bailey (co-author with Ad Konings of "Enjoying Cichlids"):
> One major criterion of keeping cichlids is available bottom space (territory) and escape space (tank length) allowing any fish to get a decent distance away from an aggressor. 100 gallons could be a tall tower of a tank, a cube, a triangular corner tank but what Malawi cichlids require is a traditional long rectangular box unless you are talking about an immense, public-aquarium-type, tank which is wider than the length of a normal domestic tank so the escape space is two-dimensional. By the way, escape upwards is not a solution, because there will be no cover at the top, the fish will be exposed and stressed, and a sitting target for any persistent persecutor. And in my experience a Malawi cichlid trying to hide in an upper corner of a tank will be picked on by all and sundry, as its behavior is abnormal and invites attention.
> 
> Volume and tank height do assume a degree of importance with the open water cichlids, but for the rest it is bottom area that is important.
> ...


i think u should reread this discussion that we are having and then reread the article that u reference. specifically this passage that u have posted. this passage is in reference to other malawi mixed in with mbuna. this is not in reference to a mbuna only tank. if u are gonna get your opinions based on articles written instead of life experience u should make sure u understand what your reading. haha


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## Thalas_shaya (Mar 10, 2014)

Sorry, I wanted to add this last night, but couldn't find the book.
However, according to Dr Paul Loiselle (author of "A Fishkeeper's Guide to African Cichlids" among other titles):


> Because most cichlids live in fairly close association with the bottom, it pays to select relatively shallow tanks with an extensive base area, rather than taller, so-called 'show tanks'. An exception to this rule are tanks for the mbuna of Lake Malawi; under aquarium conditions they will happily swim among vertical rock faces. A handful of pelagic species endemic to Lake Tanganyika, such as the several _Cyprichromis_ species and the featherfins of the genera _Cyathopharynx_ and _Ophthalmotilapia_, also appear to appreciate deeper tanks. For the most part, however, cichlids make little use of the upper two-thirds of the water column in their tank.


That said, he doesn't recommend any tank shorter than 36" (90cm) length for Mbuna. He limits those dimensions to the shellies.

Here's what Dr. Loiselle recommends for tanks with the footprint the OP mentions: ~60cmx40cm
Small substrate spawning - _Anomalochromis thomasi_, _Thysian ansorgii_, _Pelvicachromis_ spp., _Nanochromis_ spp., Dwarf _Julidochromis_ spp., or Ostracophil (shell dwelling) _Lamprologus_ - 1 adult pair of any monogamous species listed, plus a few dither fish and 1 medium-sized lorcariid catfish OR a harem of 1 M and 2-3 females of any ostracophil (shell-dwelling) _Lamprologus_ species


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Guidelines regarding tank length are suggestions based on personal experiences. Whether those experiences are successful or not dictates these 'minimum' requirements or advice suggested by hobbyists.

You certainly do not see examples of 2' mbuna tanks very often. It would be helpful to the OP and interesting to see a picture of how you scaped the tank, sumthifishy. Any info on which species and ratios worked for you would be nice.

Personally, if it were my tank, I'd plant it, add some nice sections of wood or cork bark, and add a couple of crested geckos.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

36 inches would be my cutoff for mbuna, and dwarf mbuna at that. A Ps. saulosi group is commonly recommended for a tank of this size.


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## Demasoni1 (Apr 9, 2014)

I am going to have to agree with the guys who say long. Most fish require length and width as opposed to the height of the tank. I have housed Mbuna in tanks smaller than 30" but has always ended in over aggression. I only house them in tanks like that if it is fry or just as a hospital tank.

Thanks


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