# Sexing German Blue Rams



## CaptAmerica1320 (Feb 18, 2014)

Hello everyone!

I'm pretty new to this hobby, and new to forums in general, so I apologize in advanced for potentially not fitting in with any sort of particular forum languages/mannerisms. ANY WAY-

I have a "breeding tank" set up for only one pair of German Blue Rams at the moment, with two sponge filters, five Jungle Vals, five pieces of slate, adequate LED Overhead Lighting, and black sand substrate in a 20L tank. It is heated to 82 degrees at all times and I check to make sure that the Ph of the water is between 6.8 and 7.0 on a daily basis. They are fed twice a day (once in the morning, once in the afternoon) a very small amount of either brine shrimp, earthworm flakes, sprulina flakes, and Aqueon Cichlid mini sinking pellets. I also use a proper dosage of Blackwater Extract, a small dose of Ph lower, and a small dose of a plant additive.

But I can't tell if I have a male and a female.

When I bought the fish, They seemed pretty paired up; they stuck on their side of the tank and literally fought off another ram attempting to get close to them. I used the "females have pink bellies" idea to help determine the sexes, and bought the pair.

I got them home and put them into the tank I had been cycling for about two weeks and saw that they were seemingly healthy and active, and they have been ever since I got them. However, in doing some more research, I read things like "The shape of their head and the length of their fins determines their sex." This freaked me out because they look pretty similar in terms of fin length/head shape, but I was like "PFFFT. Her belly is pink and is pretty huge; I'm pretty sure she's a girl." Until I read "Not all females have pink bellies."......... " Dam*it. So I'm in this extreme medium of "I'm pretty sure they are a great pair" and "Man, that guy at the store just wanted me to buy some fish." So is there a way to really tell what I have here? Before it's too late? Any help at all is great! Thank you!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Welcome to the forum!

There is a large black spot on their sides. Males will be solid black. Females may have blue and silver scales through the spot or a blue sheen to it. Look at the dorsal. The first several rays will be longer on a male. Females are shorter and 'fatter' with the males looking flat and a taller profile. This all depends on age/size of your fish.

More info here-
http://www.somefinsfishy.com/fish-tips/raising-cichlids/breeding-rams/sexing-rams.html

You stated that you're currently cycling the tank with the rams in there. If this is true, you're putting stress on your new fish. The poisonous ammonia and nitrite can cause permanent damage.

Here's some info on cycling a tank and basic knowledge of water chemistry.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=239823

Post your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

I've had several populations of Rams where the spot on the side was completely covered by blue spangles on males, while the females had solid black spots. It is not at all dependable for sexing. There is more variability in Ram populations than people realize. The description of males with all-black spots may apply to the true German strain of Rams, which unfortunately aren't what you normally find in stores as "German Blue Rams".

The red/pink belly is a relatively dependable character to identify a fish as a female, though females might not show it when immature or in poor condition and could be confused with immature males. Dorsal rays are also variable by population and age, though males of the same age usually have longer anterior spines than the females. If your fish are in good shape, the female should have a downward rounded belly region, while the male will be pretty much flat.

From the behavior you describe, I would expect them to be a pair. I've never seen nor heard of two female Rams showing pair territorial behavior. Since we can be reasonably sure one of the fish is a female(red belly), it is reasonable to expect the other fish to be a male.

Post photos and you will have a half dozen experts here who will tell you what the sexes are. Majority will usually be right.

On your breeding setup: add a piece of wood. Some populations seem to prefer wood as a spawning surface. I've had others that rejected any surface, and spawned in a pit in the gravel.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I stand corrected. Thanks Chromedome!


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## Coriandre (Jan 30, 2014)

Your feeding habits, parameters and setup all seem fine. But, 2 weeks is very short for cycling a tank. What did you do to cycle it ? Did you measure ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites ? A 5 gallon tank is also very very small. Not saying its impossible but I would put a 10 gallon as a bare minimum and that is double your volume.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

Coriandre, it's not a five gallon tank, it is a long 20. I realize you thought he meant 20 litre, but that is written 20l (small l), while a long 20 is often written as 20L (large L).

The other way to tell the difference is that Americans almost never use litres! :lol:


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## Coriandre (Jan 30, 2014)

Ha Ha, thank you Mr Chromedome ! Really laughing at myself for this one


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## CaptAmerica1320 (Feb 18, 2014)

Well last night I went in and looked at the dorsal side of the fish and noticed the blue dot coming through the black spot on her back, so I was pretty sure I got my answer there. I confirmed my answer when I woke up this morning and there were over 120 eggs on one of the pieces of slate haha. Thank you for all your help everyone!


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## CaptAmerica1320 (Feb 18, 2014)

On a similar note, I had a question about the eggs..... are they supposed to be getting smaller/ darker? I can barely see them.... and my females laid them around 8am yesterday morning....


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## CaptAmerica1320 (Feb 18, 2014)

Hey again,

So my Male died  I went and got a new male for my female and so far he is really healthy and gets along with the female really well, almost even better than the last male. But no I'm questioning my decision.... is it actually a male? I some some blue spots coming through on a black spot so I thought that was a dead giveaway that it was a female, then I saw that there were no traces of black on the ventral fins, no redness on the belly, long ventral fins that almost pass the anus, and a slightly pointed dorsal fin. Sorry the pics are kind of bad quality.... I'll try to post some more (better ones) if anyone need me to! Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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