# Need ideas for DIY wood 40 breeder stand(s)



## ivanmike (Jun 15, 2003)

Hey there - I have a 40 breeder up and running now on a table but just got a couple more from petco during their sale. I wanted to build 3 identical stands for them - nothing ornate, just utilitarian - maybe I'll decide to "finish" them one day, but for now, I have yards of black fabric I can hang over the ugly part.

I found some of the links here as well as this one - http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/sh ... eeder-Tank - which looks cool but seriously overbuilt?

I would however like them to be robust enough that should I get a 125, I can place the tank upon two of them. I'm thinking 24"-30" max for stand height, although I am toying with the idea of building an over/under stand for two of them if floor space becomes an issue - so if I do that, I'm back to needing a robust stand.

Not being a wood guy, I'd like some input on how beefy I really need to make these stands. (I have a pal with all the neat tools and tons of carpentry experience - so I'm not afraid to tackle the project - I just don't want to overbuild monsters, nor do i want to make stands that will collapse). Even the second hand home made stand I got from a friend for my 55 seems way overdone and is as heavy as lead (it's made out of 3/4" plywood with a center brace and all kinds of trim and weighs as much as a neutron star).

So lay it on me.....

thanks.


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## Tadgo (Jul 31, 2011)

the stand in the link looks good, but id add another 2x4 at each corner though. i dont think you need the center support. If you get a 125 i'd build a new stand for that one, you might run into issue leveling the two stands.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Tadgo said:


> If you get a 125 i'd build a new stand for that one, you might run into issue leveling the two stands.


That's what I was going to say. I'd just build each stand like this:
Angle View:









Straight on View:









Under View, for the brace and shelf:









Side View:









I also have a model of a 125G stand that can be built for $32 if you want that too, just ask! :thumb:


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

UPDATE!

I realized that I made a mistake when I sketched up bracing, so the under view picture is incorrect, here is what it should be:


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## ivanmike (Jun 15, 2003)

Thanks KC - ya I'd look at the 125 model as well. What kind of wood pieces we talking here in your model? (i'm used to thinking bass building, not 2x4s).

As for leveling issues - I did think of that - I was hoping that in the case of a sudden 125 I could get away with shims and foam under the tank (always a good idea). I always check out anything bigger than a 10 with a level. In the past I've shimmed many a stand due to floors with a slope. Quite a few yardsticks in my house bit the dust that way as they were often the perfect size... 

I'm surprised no one else has though the original link i posted was overbuilt. When I think of commercial stands I've seen (as in all of them), and some of the things I've put tanks on, that thing and many plans look way over the top in terms of holding 400 lbs.


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## J.B. (Jul 14, 2007)

Here's a stand I built for my 30-gal and 20-gal longs. Same width as your 40-gal (36"), but it'd need to be a bit deeper. Really easy to build, and the hardware is available at Lowe's. The hardware is made to utilize 4x4s for legs and 2x4s as the cross-members. It's over built, but most DIY stands are. It cost me about $70 total to put this one together.

I finished the wood to a furniture grade (stain, wood sealer and satin lacquer), but you certainly don't have to.










Here it is with nothing on it, so you can actually see the whole thing...


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

When I look at the plan at the link, I have two reactions. First is that it is overbuilt and the second that it is not strong enough on some points. For that short a span, I see little need for the upright bracing in the middle so that might be called over. But then when looking at the connections between the uprights and the top or bottom, it seems under. With a single 2X4 at the corners, there is little to keep the 2X from twisting or bowing if he happens to get a piece that is not totally dry yet. Same with the bottom and top rings. There is little to keep a weak board from wandering off. The screw heads will be a definite problem if he ever wants to apply any kind of wood cover to the outside. Storm ties are great for keeping lumber from sperating during a storm but do little for keeping it aligned. They bend fairly easy.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Here's a step-by-step how to for the 40G stand I designed:
PLEASE REMEMBER that this measurements are APPROXIMATE don't go by law on these. For instance when you a buy 2"x4" it's actually something like 1.75"x3.75". If you add 1" to the overall length and width of the stand you'll be able to fit the 40G on there for sure!

Shopping list:
(5) 2"x4"x8'=$10
(2) 1"x4"x8'=$2
(1) 2"x2"x8'=$1
(1) 4'x8'x.5" Plywood sheet=~$12
*Grand total for stand=~$25*

Start with (eight) 2"x4" legs 24" tall:









Then add a side top-base brace on each side, again 2"x4" these are about 15" long:









Next we add the main supports, (2) 2"x4" that are 36.5" long:









Now we just make the sides of the main supports, (2) 2"x4" that are about 10.5":









Add a center brace in the support, probably overkill but better to be safe than sorry! (1) 2"x4" that is 10.5" long:









Now we've got the leg frame, this will make sure the legs don't slip out and spill the tank water everywhere! (2) 1"x4" that are about 18" long and (1) 1"x4" that is about 38.5" long:









Then we put in the shelf, this also helps the legs to not slip out. (2) 2"x2" that are about 14.5" long and (2) 2"x2" that are about 26.5":









Now we frame the top part. This doesn't add anything to construction but it makes it look nicer and helps the tank to stay on there! (2) 1"x4" that are about 18" long and (1") 1"x4" that is about 38.5" long:









And finally we add the plywood! This helps distribute all the weight onto the legs, which is the most important thing to remember when building a stand! (1) .5" sheet that is 36.5"x18.5" - for the top, and (1) sheet that is 32.5"x14.5":









I'll post a step by step for the 125G stand tomorrow, but for now here is the stand (sorry it has my tank, sump, plumbing, canopy and background on it I made the diagram to plan this out before I built it):


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Here's the 125G step by step, as promised!

Shopping list:
(eight) 2"x4"s=$16
(2) 1"x4"=$2
(2) 1"x6"=~$1
(1) 4'x8'x3/4" Plywood sheet=~$15
*Grand total=~$35*

Again, please remember these measurements are approximate. The best way to guarantee that your tank will fit is to measure the tank and then add 1/2" to that measurement and cut the wood. MEASURE TWICE CUT ONCE.

Again we're going to start out with the legs here, 12 of them, mine are 30" tall but you can make them as high as you'd like!:









Next we add the cross braces to the top, (4) 2"x4" that are 18 1/2" wide (extra 1/2" to allow for easier fit):









Now we add the length-wise braces that go on the top, (2) 2"x4" that are 84 1/2" long (extra 1/2" for easier fit) and (2) 2"x4" pieces that are 10 1/2" - sorry the 10 1/2" pieces aren't in this picture, I accidentally added them in the next instead of this one:









Up next we build on the shelf, (2) 2"x4" pieces that are 80 1/2" long and (2) 2"x4" pieces that are 10 1/2" long:









And now we add the bottom ring, to help keep the legs from moving. (2) 1"x4"s that are 18 1/2" long and (1) 1"x4" piece that is 86 1/2" long. Sorry width-wise top braces are missing, again I forgot them until later:









Next we put on the top ring, to keep the tank in place so that it doesn't move! (2) 1"x6"s that are 18 1/2" long and (1) 1"x6" piece that is 86 1/2":









Finally the last step - the plywood! Nice and simple here, just (1) 18 1/2"x84 1/2"x3/4" piece of plywood - top and (1) 14 1/2"x80 1/2"x3/4" piece of plywood - shelf!:









This stand should hold up a 125G tank easy. However, I haven't tested this stand (I've tested the one for the 40G, it's actually holding up a 55G downstairs right now) but it shouldn't have any problems, I believe that I distributed the weight evenly enough!


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## ivanmike (Jun 15, 2003)

cool thanks - that should help quite a bit. I'm really unimpressed with commercial stands, and wanted to do something other than the cinder block/plywood trick.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

This ought to do the trick! Like I said a have 55G on the stand I designed for your 40Gs and it's quite sturdy, I feel like it could hold at least double that weight. I haven't tested that 125G stand, but I will in about a month (when I'll have the money for materials) and I'll post pics here of progress and the actual test!


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## ivanmike (Jun 15, 2003)

Cool.

It's funny, I still look at all of these designs and am knocked out by how sturdy they are made compared to commercial units (which still seem to last for years).

To be honest, my original 40 breeder is on a table with legs that aren't even under the sides of the tank? (been that way for 5 1/2 years with no issues). I've always understood that the major stress points and where most of the weight was was on the narrow ends of the tank. I amended it with foam eventually, but on my 125 the commercial angle iron stand bowed and the tank really was only touching on the two ends for about a year. I haven't done it with anything larger than a 29, but for 4 years I've had a 29 on two cinder blocks with the middle un-supported.

Am I missing something? (Really asking not snarking, like I said, I'm not a wood guy outside of Bass Guitar construction - which involves esoteric tone woods, not support of large mass.)


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

The idea of building the stand is to get the weight put onto the vertical 2x4 legs, which if applied properly will hold 4 tons without breaking. So having the tank not on top of the legs isn't the worst thing that could happen, but it's definitely better to have the tank over it. The design I gave you for the 40G would hold a tank with the same footprint that's about 5' tall, without even breaking a sweat... or breaking a sap :lol: The 125G stand definitely has the support, my only worry is where the length-wise top brace touches the 4 middle legs there is that little 2" space where there isn't a leg. Not a huge worry - probably just me being a little too worried and over building it since if this tank breaks it'll be falling down 3 stories - which won't be a fun clean up! I highly doubt anything will break on the 125 stand - I haven't built it yet (like I said) but it's basically the exact same as the 40G stands with legs there in the middle sections so that the top brace doesn't droop and to take some stress of the main 8 legs. I highly doubt it will have any problems though - like I said I feel like the 40G stand that my 55G is on could hold at least 4 times that weight without breaking a sap!


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Are you set up with access to a power saw so you could cut a 45 miter on a 2X4? I use a standard method for all the stands I have build regardless of size. For strength it is stronger than needed but built with 2X4 due to less problems getting good value in this size wood. It uses two 2X at each corner with a top and bottom ring rail of 2X4 laid flat. Part of the value of having the legs on top of a flat board is that it spreads the weight better. This may not seem too important until you move the tank and stand. With all the weight on legs, they tend to go through carpeting or whatever is underneath more than if they are on a solid 2X4 ring all the way around the stand. Very important if you have laminate, carpeting or such that may be damaged by weight.

This is a back bottom corner of a stand for a 125. With the boards flat, I drive a three inch deck screw in from each side to toenail the 2X4 ends together. I use glue as well. Then to attach the legs at top and bottom, I screw the upper and lower ring to the legs, making sure the leg section overlaps the joint in the ring rails. The two leg 2X4 are glued and screwed together at an angle making them support each other and resist any movment. The tank then rests on top of the flat 2X4, directly on top of the legs and them directly on top of the bottom ring. Solid wood transfers the load directly to the bottom without the fasteners taking the strain. 









The only other wood is bracing, not to support the tank as much as to keep the wood from twisting or bowing if it has moisture left in it. In this case with a six foot tank I wanted two uprights on the six foot length. They also form the frame for a door. With all the wood legs, top and bottom at the same plane, it makes adding any type skin simple.










Finished stand for 125 with canopy.








I went further on this project than most I do as it was going into my dining room and wifely concessions were needed!


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## ivanmike (Jun 15, 2003)

Good stuff. If at all possible I'd love to be able to fit a 20 long on the second shelf. I suppose I'd need to make it the correct height and also add supports under the corners of that as well.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

If you want to keep it strong simple and cheap, try this. 4 legs made from 2 x 4, 2 shelves made from 2 x 4, and 1 x 4 inch pieces glued and screwed to the legs (to carry the weight of the shelves), attached to the 2 x 4 legs between the shelves. Screw and glue the legs to the shelves and perhaps add a brace piece of wood or plywood along the back to prevent racking. the 1 x4 pieces could be 2 x4 but the extra weight isn't needed and doesn't make it any stronger, just heavier. Most of the examples are way overkill.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

ivanmike said:


> Good stuff. If at all possible I'd love to be able to fit a 20 long on the second shelf. I suppose I'd need to make it the correct height and also add supports under the corners of that as well.


Yes, but that could be done very easily. I'd just add a 2x4 inside the leg joints of each of the 4 leg posts and then make a flat 2x4 ring on top of that with another 2x4 in the middle to prevent any movement. I'd put a piece of plywood on top of that, but it isn't necessary.

Yes, adding the 2x4 ring along the bottom can help distribute the weight. I haven't done that before with the stands that I've built but they've been on carpet and that helps the ring-less option better. Thinking it through though, I'm going add that to my 125G plans.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I found when doing rental property that tanks on legs only can do mre damage than ones on a full board at the bottom. Laminate flooring is really a killer as the legs can mash almost through it.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

No worries to property damage with carpet right?


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

King crabb, your dravings are nice and clear, but your design for the 125 stand is slightly flawed. There really needs to be a brace across the back to prevent racking. This is easily done by running a strip of plywood about 6 inches to 12 inches wide across the back of the stand. Or just 2 triangular plywood gussets.

Also the two sets of uprights in the middle of the stand are a complete waste for a glass tank. for acrylic fine, but glass tanks are very rigid and will not sag down in the middle no matter what. In fact you could have a 125 supported at the 4 corners on cinder blocks and it would do just fine.

This is because a glass tank acts much like a steel beam due to it's box shape. for a tank to sag you would need to twist the glass panes on the front and back in their flat dimension, which is impossible with the weights in question.

The reason I bring this up is because ridiculously overbuilt stands are a pet peeve of mine. Why build something that can carry 30 tonnes when it only needs to carry 1.


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## sickwithcichlids (Jun 10, 2011)

I recently built a stand for my 75 from here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... ?t=1169964 Its a great thread on diy stands with lots of plans pictures and suggestions. I over built mine a little, but better overkill than not enough. I don't have a camera but my gf has a Iphone, so ill ask her to take some pics of it later. I am very impressed with the final results. And done for under $100 with solid oak doors and trim (unclaimed freight store) I would not build any stand with the 2x4 on its side, for the top where the tank sits. Woods strength mostly lies in it being compressed. Think of a house, do they build the floors with the joists standing up or on there sides? wood placed on its side will bow, unless extra bracing is used. Which means more unnecessary weight.


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## ivanmike (Jun 15, 2003)

pistolpete said:


> but glass tanks are very rigid and will not sag down in the middle no matter what. In fact you could have a 125 supported at the 4 corners on cinder blocks and it would do just fine.
> 
> This is because a glass tank acts much like a steel beam due to it's box shape. for a tank to sag you would need to twist the glass panes on the front and back in their flat dimension, which is impossible with the weights in question.
> 
> The reason I bring this up is because ridiculously overbuilt stands are a pet peeve of mine. Why build something that can carry 30 tonnes when it only needs to carry 1.


well this is something That puzzles me. Like I said upstream, for about a year my 125 was on an angle iron stand and the iron bowed from its own weight, so the only actual points of contact were on the two narrow (18" sides). I amended this somewhat with a foam base, but i suspect still most of the stress remained on those two sides alone.

Likewise, you look at most "hollow" commercial stands and they're made out of particle board, yet they hold 55, 90, and 125 gallon tanks.

I'm looking for a happy medium based upon physics. (and the physical properties of wood, glass, silicone, etc)


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

While pistolpete is correct in the strength of the 'box beam" that a tank is, having the base supported takes the bottom out of the equation. for me, reducing stress or load on any part of a tank is worthwhile.
Steel stands rarely have straight steel, especially angle iron. Some is due to the welding, but much is due to the material not being straight to begin with.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Keep in mind that most commercial stands are made to make money. That does not mean they are good stands made to last a long time. Quite the opposite is true. They are made to max the profit, not the quality. The old story that things are made well to keep the company rep up is pretty well lost, don't you think?


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## ivanmike (Jun 15, 2003)

PfunMo said:


> Keep in mind that most commercial stands are made to make money. That does not mean they are good stands made to last a long time. Quite the opposite is true. They are made to max the profit, not the quality. The old story that things are made well to keep the company rep up is pretty well lost, don't you think?


you're preaching to the choir mate... 

However, I'm trying to go for happy medium if i can. I've even had some builder pals look at some of the designs and had them as me "what the H*!! are they putting on these, anyway, Osmium bricks?

Keep in mind that's not a dig at anyone - If anything I'm way out of my element here and they all look like great projects and much better than I'd come up with - (I'm the guy you don't hand the saw to) :lol: At the end of the day I just want the stand to work, be able to hold a second smaller tank, and not be difficult to build or expensive in terms of materials.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Sounds reasonable to me. I still get people looking at my stands here at home and asking why they are built so heavy. Anybody that has tried to shop for nice straight wood in less 2X4 but more than 1X will know that it is tough to find without paying a hefty price. I like a stand that will be plenty strong, built of stuff that I can find and afford. It helps then if it is something that can be covered to get whatever "look" you like. The frame is simple enough and by moving the legs in or out, you can use almost any thickness of covering you like. I don't build for profit so if a stand costs 10-15 dollars more, it doesn't bother me if it gives me a better stand and as I said, the weight is not enough to bother me. I can move my stands up to a 55 and after that the length makes me need a second person anyway. As they are built, I've moved one stand and tank out from the wall to replace a window without taking the fish out.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

pistolpete said:


> The reason I bring this up is because ridiculously overbuilt stands are a pet peeve of mine. Why build something that can carry 30 tonnes when it only needs to carry 1.


 =D> =D> =D> :lol:

The exact reason why I stopped watching the DIY folder of this forum.

Every time I'd post in order to try and get people to simplify things I'd get poo poo'd and told "I'd rather have it be over built and sleep at nite" Please, you can make a frame of 2x4's the same size as the foot print of a tank up to 90 gallons and add four legs using 3" ceramic coated deck screws to hold it all together. The shear weight of ONE deck screw can hold a 40 breeder...

OK... I'm done.  :lol:


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

pistolpete said:


> King crabb, your dravings are nice and clear, but your design for the 125 stand is slightly flawed. There really needs to be a brace across the back to prevent racking. This is easily done by running a strip of plywood about 6 inches to 12 inches wide across the back of the stand. Or just 2 triangular plywood gussets.
> 
> Also the two sets of uprights in the middle of the stand are a complete waste for a glass tank. for acrylic fine, but glass tanks are very rigid and will not sag down in the middle no matter what. In fact you could have a 125 supported at the 4 corners on cinder blocks and it would do just fine.
> 
> ...


I'm going to be covering the whole bottom part in plywood, I just put the framing on there for time and space sake. That's interesting about the middle legs, I didn't know that! Although you didn't say anything about flat-bottomed ply wood tanks, which is what this will be holding. Still needed?


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

building stands takes an understanding of physics and the properties of wood, as well as proper joinery techniques. It's not complicated, but it is a fairly large volume of info to get into on line.

I definitely don't mean to discourage anyone from giving it a try, just trying to make a few points that lead to more elegant solutions. for example, your stand will not benefit from having your long 2x4 braces along the top. Just screw the plywood directly on the cross members. your 2x4's will shrink in thickness approximately 3/16" each over time. When you stack multiple layers like that it causes issues with the material you use to skin over the stand.

A plywood tank will behave very much like a glass tank, even though wood is a bit less rigid. If the center braces make you happy, then keep them. Really the only negative of having all that extra wood there is the weight. When I build a stand for a 125 gallon (and I have built several for much larger tanks) I can carry it by myself. And I will still have a safety factor of 3 to 4x as far weight carrying capacity goes. Your stand will take 2 people to move.

I guess I am ranting, sorry about that.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Don't worry about ranting, it's quite helpful! You may not have picked up on it, but I'm a kid. So, I have to have the stand 100% fool-proof before my dad will let me even attempt to make a stand that will be housing over half a ton of water. So all in all, if I eliminate the length-wise braces and just have the 4 cross-braces going across the legs it will still hold the tank up no problem? Still will have the 3/4" plywood going around the outside.


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## Tadgo (Jul 31, 2011)

pistolpete said:


> When I build a stand for a 125 gallon (and I have built several for much larger tanks) I can carry it by myself.


Do you have pics of one built up? I am curiuos to see one and might consider going this route with an upcoming stand build.

I do agree that most DIY stands are way over built. But for me 2x4 contruction is is the easiest way to go and know it will hold.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

The question of weight gets into not mattering much to me when it is a long tank. If I am moving anything that is six feet long in my house, I get help. Not so much for the weight but just to keep from banging things around. If I had a cardboard box that was 6 feet long, 18 inches wide and 30 inches tall, I could not move it through my house without banging it into the walls. That makes the weight of the stand pretty much meaningless as long as two people can handle it easily. I do like to hold the amount of material used to a minimum but not for the weight. If I feel there is need to add a brace to assure that the wood won't twist or bow , I add it freely. Wood quality varies a great deal sometimes and I don't trust it very far.


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