# Correcting naive mistakes



## BellaFarnese (Jan 12, 2013)

Hi all,

As you'll see, help is needed with a new 55 gallon tank. Unfortunately, we listened to not so great advice regarding what to begin stocking with and when to add more fish. Yes, this is yet another tale of naive errors.

Hopefully, this is the end of the ammonia spike in the cycle; .025 prior to today's 50% wc. I actually thought I was going to faint when the first round of tests 10 days ago showed an ammonia level of 8.0, never mind the horrible guilt over what this has done to the fish. I guess we will see how much fun nitrites are in the coming days. Here's what we started with after 4 days of a fishless tank on 12.24

Labidochromis caeruleus 2.5 in
Pseudotropheus demasoni 2 in
Melanochromis Auratus 3.5 in
Electric Blue Lobster, Procambarus alleni 3in
Green Terror, 3 in (unsure which type)

They all seemed to coexist peacefully until 2 new fish were added 01/05
Bujurquina Mariae, 3 in
Paratilapia large spotted Marakely 2.5 inches

In hindsight, wrong combo, wrong fish and not the best way to start a tank, different sizes, more fish too soon. Yes, more mistakes listening to lfs. Was told same sizes, different areas were OK as long as tank parameters met their needs, etc.

Planning on a second tank as they grow, but clearly need to make changes. Was told the Auratus was female, and its definitely not. Since he started changing colors, its been a nightmare. He almost killed the bujurquina last week. Its tail fin was torn to shreds & its now in an isolation tank, recovering from the vicious attack. The Auratus is now attacking everything else, pretty much 24/7. Back to the fish store for him - tomorrow.

Any feedback or suggestions regarding stocking and/or the tank would be most appreciated. Especially ~

? What tank mates are suitable, with variation in color/pattern
? When is it safe to add more fish, how many at a time
? How many fish are an ideal total
? What's the best tank mate to help with algae/waste in tank 
? Can the bujurquina ever go back into this tank, esp since the gt is so similar in coloring and geographic region
? Once the Auratus is gone, how to minimize gt becoming the new bully

I realize this is alot and am most grateful for any assistance!
Thanks!!


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## mhertzfeld (May 19, 2012)

If you want to keep any of what you have I would do a mbuna tank which would probably fit your 55 pretty well. So keep your yellow, your demasoni if you like the colors and return everything else.

A BN pleco will help with the algae and a few sydontis multis will help with the waste.

As far as adding more fish go, only add fish that are compatible with the stock you choose. There are a lot of sicknesses that can be caused from a fish being stressed out by aggresssion. As you add fish watch your ammonia and nitrite.

How many total fish can you add? Depends on a lot of different factors. At this point I would be thinking about how much money do you want to spend on filters and media plus how often you want to be doing PWCs. If you buy fish that get along well with eachother you can add quite a bit but only if you have enough filtration (BIO) to handle it all. If you decide to get a lot of fish be prepared to do at least two PWCs at 33% per week. On my tanks I do at least 40% PWC two times a week (so about 80% total for the week).


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## BellaFarnese (Jan 12, 2013)

Thank you so much!

Interestingly, Mbuna was the original plan. I do like the lab and Demasoni for their colors and behavior. Auratus is history as of tomorrow. The Bujurquina is already separated. I was worried about the gt becoming aggressive as well.

What are the potential concerns regarding the electric blue lobster with Mbuna? And the Paratilapia, aside from eventually being in another tank?

Looks like the bn pleco and syndontis will work, great recommendations.

Ammonia, chlorine, ph, gh, kh, nitrates, nitrites are tested daily using liquid API kits. Am I missing anything? I've been using Sera's online labs to keep track and analyze results.

I'm concerned about nitrite spikes and more danger to the fish. They've been zero since we started testing. Any chance of nitrites occurring prior to testing? We've also been using Nite out II. The nitrAtes are at 10- 20. However, nitrAtes were at 10 for water testing from the indoor faucet and outdoor faucet pre filter/softener, since we have well water.

I'm OK with 2x weekly pwc. Expected this anyway. We have an Eheim 2215 cannister bio filter. Is this filter enough? Its for a 92 gallon tank.

Any thoughts on Malawi peacocks or jewels? There's so much conflicting info on tank mates, its difficult to make a decision.

Looking forward to more advice!!


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## mhertzfeld (May 19, 2012)

> What are the potential concerns regarding the electric blue lobster with Mbuna? And the Paratilapia, aside from eventually being in another tank?


I would be worried about the lobster hurting or killing your smaller fish. From what I hear the paratilapia is going to get pretty big so it's good your going to be putting it into another tank eventually. If I were you though I would just return it.



> Ammonia, chlorine, ph, gh, kh, nitrates, nitrites are tested daily using liquid API kits. Am I missing anything? I've been using Sera's online labs to keep track and analyze results.


For the first two months I would just keep an eye on ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Are you using anything to modify your PH GH or KH?



> I'm concerned about nitrite spikes and more danger to the fish. They've been zero since we started testing. Any chance of nitrites occurring prior to testing? We've also been using Nite out II. The nitrAtes are at 10- 20. However, nitrAtes were at 10 for water testing from the indoor faucet and outdoor faucet pre filter/softener, since we have well water.


I'd be more worried about ammonia spikes than nitrite. When I cycle with fish I throw some carbon mixed with ammonia neutralizer into the filter. You can find prefilled bags from fluval or some other company for this. That way the water still has some ammonia in it which is nessisary for the cycling process but it doesn't get out of hand. I also do daily water changes until I see healthy nitrate levels. I'm not framilier with nite out. If it completly removes the nitrite from the tank you may have trouble completing your cycle.



> Any thoughts on Malawi peacocks or jewels? There's so much conflicting info on tank mates, its difficult to make a decision.


Don't know anything about jewels. But I would recomend not mixing peacocks and mbuna. I tried this when I started with cichlids but once they got to a decent size the mbuna would pick on the peacocks and stress them out. Your yellow would do alright with peacocks but that's probably the only mbuna I would try with peacocks. However people do get it to work with the right size tank and right tank mates.

If your confused with stocking there's a lot of "cookie cutter" stocking lists on the site you should check out.


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## BellaFarnese (Jan 12, 2013)

More great info, thank you so very, very much. I really thought the electric blue would stay his size and continue to mind his own business!!

Re ph, gh, kh: we have a marine sand substrate with crushed coral and shells, as well as rocks. We added aquarium salt at start up and replace at each pwc. Since we have well water, theres no chlorine, at its slightly hard to begin with.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

In a 55G, depending on the species you choose, you want 3 species stocked at 1m:4f. Demasoni would be stocked differently.

If you are going all male, as in a hap and peacock tank, shoot for 8-10 individuals that mature at or under 6".

In general crustaceans eat the fish until they molt. Then the fish eat him.


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## BellaFarnese (Jan 12, 2013)

For mhertzfeld, Sorry, it looks like the rest of my post didnt copy correctly.

Regarding the Nite-out, its supposed to provide live nitrifying bacteria while decreasing ammonia and nitrite toxicity. Its my understanding (please correct me if Im wrong) it begins the nitrogen cycle while reducing risks to the fish.

Initially, we started the tank with Tetra safe start and were told this would make it safe for the fish we were buying. We were also told not to change the water for a month.

That obviously wasn't the best route, since we had really high ammonia. Then we started doing the pwcs and adding nite-out. Last pwc was 50% this morning, ammonia is .025 as of 9pm.

Once ammonia is zero, will I still see the increase in nitrItes before an increase in nitrAtes?

Thanks!


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## BellaFarnese (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks DJ. Thats the next big decision, male/female or all male. Im open to opinions on that as well.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

All male is challenging and you need extra tanks to rehome fish that don't get along. It can take a year or more to get a workable mix. I'm not sure I would try an all-male mbuna tank.

Mixed genders work more quickly. Note that demasoni are also a challenging fish. For a first tank I might go mixed genders with labs and two other fish species that are a little easier than demasoni or auratus.


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## BellaFarnese (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks DJ!

I think we have enough challenges for now and don't want to create more chaos. 3 species M/F with your ratio sounds great. I'm so glad this forum is available for information.

Please feel free to be candid with my line of thought and correct me if I'm off base with what's best for the fish. There's certainly been enough mistakes and I don't want to do anything else that's harmful.

Since m/f is the best bet given my inexperience...

The plan is 3 species, I'm guessing add 1 species at a time with your #'s. Since we are keeping the lab, would I buy more labs first? When do you think its appropriate to add the first group? Then the next, etc.

With the pending removal of most of the present inhabitants, then additional fish, how will this impact the functionality of the bio load? Will it be drastic, causing a restart on the cycle? Or should I expect ammonia spikes with the additional fish and closely monitor levels, adjusting w pwc as needed?

A few Synodontis multi has been recommended. Im really interested in this addition. However, I've read they steal mbuna eggs and replace with their own. So would it be ok to get just one along with a bn pleco to avoid this issue? I dont think there's enough algae for a pleco yet.

Regarding the nitrogen cycle, taking into consideration what I've listed in prior posts, will I still see an increase in nitrItes? And/or the change in nitrAtes?

My apologies for such remedial questions!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

A healthy tank will always have increasing nitrates. If your tank is cycled, don't add fish, remove them. Cycle with ammonia.

If your tank IS cycled, remove fish and add within a day or so and make sure the new bioload equals the old...then you will be fine. Of course always monitor when you make a change.

Don't get synodontis unless you get a group...one will just hide. They TRY to steal eggs but are usually unsuccessful. You will have way more mbuna fry than syno fry.


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## BellaFarnese (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks DJ! Great feedback, I really appreciate your help. Fortunately I was able to locate a place to purchase syno's nearby through this forum.

Were going to start with adding a few yellow labs to replace the Auratus. One step at a time!


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

I like to get 6-8 individuals to start a species group, I usually get enough females this way. 
I wouldn't worry about the synos stealing eggs - you'll have way more mbuna fry than you could ever raise! Syno fry are very desirable, too.


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## BellaFarnese (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks everyone, a pair of syno multis are in the tank now and are doing well.

So, my 55g has a m/f pair of baenschi peacocks, 2 female albino peacocks, 2 syno multis and a juvenile paratilapia bleekeri who will go into a larger tank when its older, we were told its probably a female.

Im thinking of adding a few 3 inch Cyrtocara moorii, that would stay until theyre older and go into a larger tank with the bleekeri.

Any thoughts on other tankmates for the 55g? Im concerned about adding more m/f peacocks

The only mbuna I kept is the yellow lab, who is in a new 46 gallon bowfront, waiting for appropriate tank mates.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You don't want to save fry from the peacocks as they crossbreed. I would only add yellow labs or haps to that tank. Why not a hap that can stay in the tank like Placidochromis electra Deep Water Hap? 1m:4f.


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## BellaFarnese (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks DJ!

The yellow lab had to be moved to the new 46g bowfront. It was relentlessly harassing the paratilapia and peacocks in the 55g once the dominant auratus and gt were returned. So the 46g will probably be a mbuna tank.

I really like the Placidochromis you suggested, great choice. *** seen them in a few lfs and the colors dont look like any current residents. So on my next purchase, I will seek them out.

Regarding peacock fry, did you mean not to save fry if I put more male peacocks in the tank?

If the Baenschi pair mate, its ok right? I can see why I shouldnt save Albino fry since that would be crossbreeding..


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You will not know who breeds with who so you would not save ANY peacock fry. Note that Malawi like baenschi and other peacocks are harem breeders...in a pair the male will likely kill the female. If you want to keep the peacocks, I'd choose either the baenschi or the albinos and stock 1m:4f.


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## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

If the albinos are in fact female, you could keep the baenshi fry, the baenschi is the only male peacock in the tank, but if he's only got one female she may get harassed to death unless he decides to pursue the albino females.


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## BellaFarnese (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks DJ & Lilscoots. Ok, so Im going to bring back the 2 albinos, keep the Baenschi pair and add three more female for his "harem" to keep the females safe (hopefully) and avoid crossbreeding. After an adjustment period; add Placidochromis electra Deep Water Haps

That means 
1m:4f Baenschi peacocks
1m:4f Placidochromis electra Deep Water Hap
2 juvenile synodontis multis,
And the female juvenile paratilapia bleekeri (she's still going into a larger tank when she grows)

Is that the max for the 55g? Or should I consider more in the future?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd up the synodontis to five individuals and once the bleekeri is gone you could add another hap species or a group of yellow labs.


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