# My first Jack Dempsey



## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

Last week, I got a call from my uncle that his Gold Snook was beating up on his Jack Dempsey, and if I wanted him. Knowing the only other alternatives for the fish was either getting the life beat out of it by the snook, or it going to the LFS to live in a 12x12 barrack, probably with some other large, aggressive fish, until it either died, or got sold (knowing the owner of the shop, he tells me quite often that fish sales are down, and who wants a large, shy, returned fish??), how could I say no?

So I took the fish, after tearing down my 29 gallon community tank, shoving all the fish into my goldfish tank, and putting up my old 40 breeder in it's place. I seeded the tank with gravel from the 29, and extra media from the 50 gallon goldfish tank, and gave him a 150 gallon SunSun canister.

After nearly stressing the poor guy to death with the ride and acclimation to water cleaner than he'd ever seen (uncle only tops of the sump when it gets loud....), I let him settle in for a few days before hitting the tank with a large water change (probably 50%), Tetra Fungus Guard, and another large water change (90%) because I have no carbon right now.

I seem to have stopped any major health problems before they started, but he's still so shy. He hides at any movement from out side the tank, and hasn't eaten since I got him. He looks fine. He has good colors, and does move about the tank so long as I'm not moving or there's no one in the room. But he won't even eat when I put in food and leave the room. I did buy some ghost shrimp and he seems to have eaten them over the last few nights (I heard him splashing and hitting up against stuff a few nights ago in the middle of the night), but he won't touch the Omega One Cichlid pellets or shrimp sticks, or the eLive (?) Cichlid pellets, and makes a mad days for his hiding spot when I get near his tank.

How can I get him interested in food? He was raised on cheap pond and goldfish pellets, so I have no idea how he got so large, and stayed so (relatively) healthy.

Also, do you guys think some schooling fish would help boost his confidence? He's never been in a tank alone, before. Well, he does have a Goldspot Sailfin Pleco in with him, but she doesn't count, since she doesn't come out much during the day lol Tiger Barbs are currently on sale for $1 a piece at a shop near my house. Or I could get some Rosy Minnows, if the barbs are going to be too rowdy for my big shy guy.

There's also this....





His spine is really malformed from the poor diet he was raised on. You can also see it in the way his belly is, too. It's "folded" up behind his vent, for lack if a better way to put it. You can kind of see it, here.



Do you think, given his large size, that this can be corrected at all over time with a proper diet? I'm guessing not. And do you think it will cause any problems down the road?

Any other tips or tricks for overall general care would be great, as well. This is my first Cichlid, not including my GBRs. I'm sure I'll come up with more questions as I go along. This is the largest fish I've owned, next to a few of my goldfish out in the pond. They don't have any teeth, though


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## nlnl (May 20, 2014)

They are 'hearty' fish in my experience. So he will probably be just fine. Try the frozen brine shrimp. My male JD likes the pellets but my female doesn't care too much for it. But she goes crazy on brine shrimp or the worms.


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

I've seen this fish attack pellets like he's never eaten before and never will again. This was probably a good year ago, though. Then that snook had a huge growth spurt and started killing off the 20 other fish in the tank. Then the JD got very skittish and stopped eating so much. It's gunna take a while for him to turn around, I think. I've been trying to avoid frozen foods until he starts eating pellets again, but it maybe the way to go at this point. I've had him just over a week and he's only eaten a couple of ghost shrimp, at best. Maybe a few shrimp pellets. Still not sure if he got those, or the pleco or snail did lol I've also got meal worms that I breed for my leopard geckos that I can try, as well.


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## andywoolloo (Apr 12, 2014)

Did you try defrosted frozen bloodworms? Or are there others in there that will beat him to them?


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

It's only him since I got him, and the sailfin pleco. They don't seem to bother each other, but the pleco does like to eat. She knows how to eat pellets from the surface (but she'd rather eat her algae wafers-- less effort, you know) lol. I will try some bloodworms. I'll pick them up tomorrow, and some brine shrimp. I may even have some garlic I can soak them in. Not many fish can resist the call of garlic soaked foods! Let see if this stubourn butt can... Lol


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

Just an update:

He's *still* not eating, and his colors are getting dull. I tried brine shrimp, but the dang things were so small. They are usually much larger, so I was surprised to see most of them weren't full size (I think I saw ONE big one out of the whole cube). Oh well, the other fish enjoyed them. I wanted to get blood worms too when i got the brine shrimp, but they were out at the time. I'm currently trying to just starve him out and I'll start feeding in again over the weekend. So far the only thing he's eaten is ghost shrimp a few days after I got him. I'm not playing that game! Naughty fish...

Also, he's getting even more skittish, especially since I was away last weekend, so he didn't see anyone for three days. Should I just go ahead and try some schoolers to see if I can pull him out of hiding? I have a fish in QT that's ready to moved to the pond, so I could pick something up. Tiger barbs are still on sale... Lol


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

What are your exact water readings? Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

You mentioned that the other fish enjoyed the brine shrimp. From a different tank or did you add stock to the JDs?

Go out in the yard and dig up some earthworms. Try offering one.


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

I'll let you know tomorrow on the parameters. Shouldn't be too bad since he doesn't eat, the tank was seeded entirely from another tank, and it's got 150 gallon canister on it (the biggest SunSun-- can't remember the GPH).

My other tank. They are all small, community fish so the little BS were great for them.

My room mate attacks the yard with ant killer, so that's not an option. I've got meal worms though. I'll try some of them and see what happens.


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

It might be worth trying a blackout if you haven't already. Although, it sounds like that might have already happened if you were gone for three days. I can assume the light was off during that time? Maybe some more time with lights out and no activity around his tank and no food. Give him some time to settle in. He needs time to adjust and get over his fear of being picked on and get comfortable in his new surroundings. I probably wouldn't introduce anything just yet.


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

Did you take the pleco from your uncle as well? If not, where and what type of filtration was being used for the pleco? If you introduced a large pleco and JD together to a tank with seeded media from a tank with only small community fish there's probably not enough beneficial bacteria to handle the bioload of the pleco and JD. Pleco's alone produce A LOT of waste. How big is the pleco?


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

The tank lights are on timers, so they do their own thing. The pleco was from my tank, I moved her out of the 50 gallon when the other fish were moved In because I didn't want her to bother me breeding pair of BN plecos. She's about 5 inches. All the fish you see in the 50 gallon pretty much came from the 29 gallon I tore down to put this tank up, so is was heavily stocked. I also stole a bunch of media from the 50 gallon, since I took down a smaller filter (AC 110) to replace it with the filter that was on the 29 gallon (Grech 302 for 75 gallon tank). The 50 gallon used to be a goldfish tank before all this craziness, and it was heavily stocked as well. So it really should have been fine. I've also done several larger water changes since setting the tank up. I will get the water tested tomorrow and let you know, but I don't think it's a water quality issue.


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

It sounds like you've certainly had enough bioload in seeded-from tanks to handle what you have going now for the JD. You seem to know what your doing! His malformation may honestly never fully recover (namely his spine), but you can provide him with a much healthier and more stable home for the duration of his life, which could still be years if he settles in. The question now is whether or not he WILL settle in. That's up to him, and could take some time and patience and your part.


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

I've had fish for about 10 years. Setting up a tank is nothing new to me  Just knew to cichlids (I don't think Rams really count-- they're more like larger Neon Tetras LOL)

On the black out note, how long do you think I should try that for? He is very active at night. Seems like he's out all night long, actually. He seemed to be doing really well until the last day of the Fungus Guard, and then he lost color, and started to go back into his reclusive state. Did a large water change, about 95%, since I don't have any carbon, and he never seemed to recover. That was last week. He's got a great personality when he lets it out, though. He'll sit there and just stare at me like "Hey. Hey you! Imma eat you!" He even had it out with the pleco a bit this morning LOL She doesn't take any **** though. She flared her fins out and was ready to stab him if he pushed her too much XD


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

If 3 he had a black out for 3 days and is still a bit skiddish I might try 5 days. Try to feed him first as you won't want any activity in or around the tank during this time... and you might also consider removing the pleco for this black-out too, if you have a place to put him. It seems like the plec might be stressing him out a bit.

Try giving him ghost shrimp again, since it seems like he digs those, but be sure to gut-load them first so the JD can get some nutrients 

Is he in a room with lots of activity? If so, you'd want to cover the front of the tank with a blanket or something so he's secluded and feels secure. just don't cover the whole top (make sure there's at least some space open to the air... doesn't have to be much)

Also, if water parameters aren't an issue I don't think you need to be doing so many water changes. Consistent parameters will be better for him and changing that much water so consistently my also be causing undue stress if parameters are holding steady.


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

He was not blacked out when I was gone over the weekend. The lights are on timers. I have too many tanks to turn lights on and off and too much time away from home to keep a good schedule going, especially for my planted tank lol I will pull the plug though, so that they stop turning on.

I've done two water changes since the tank as been set up. One right before adding the Fungus Guard (40% or so), and one when the treatment was done (95% or so, because I have no carbon to remove the meds). I haven't done any since then because the last one combined with ... Something.... Stressed him out so much. I am on a weekly water changing schedule now, but may skip this week, since it's not like much pooping is going on in there anyways. The pleco sure ain't pooping enough to make me need to change the water right now lol

He started it with the pleco. He turned around, because he saw me moving toward the tank and got weirded out, and she was there, unexpectedly, and it ticked him off a little. He bumped into her and pushed her, like "get out out of the way!" I think it's the first time they've ever crossed paths, that I've seen, anyways. He was showing a little bit of his true colors, that way he was before that snook took over his previous tank. He used to be a grump butt, but never really bothered any body. I don't think, seeing how they interacted, that either of them bother the other. It was more "surprise! You're surrounded!" And he couldn't get away as fast as he wanted. If I do see that they are bothering each other, I could move her to the 50 gallon, but the tank is already fully stocked as it is, so I'd rather not unless I have to. I will watch them.

He's in my bedroom. He can see into the kitchen, which gets some activity, but it's far enough away that it doesn't bother him. I catch him waching the movement in the kitchen quite often, actually. Not much goes on in my bedroom except for the morning when I'm getting ready for work or classes, or at night when I'm getting ready for bed. He's right next to the bed (it's the only place the tank will fit). My room mate does come in to get to the laundry room a couple times a day, but that route doesn't go near the tank.


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

I should've read what you stated about water changes above better, my bad. And I was just thinking you might want to remove the pleco just for the black-out period, then when JD is settled put him back in, but then again, removing his sole tank-mate, only to put him back a few days later might tweak him out too, so probably best to leave that as is.

I still think it would be good to cover the glass, even though the outside activity is distant, he's still seeing the movement and it's all still new. You might want to allow him to get used to what's IN the tank, allow him to focus on his immediate surroundings and get used to where he lives. He'll find a spot to call his own without worrying about if that big two-legged dude is about to walk his way. Once he has his own territory within the tank, he won't be as concerned about what's going on outside the tank, as long as nobody encroaches on his turf. But he needs to establish his turf.


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

He does have a spot, and he uses it very well lol (both him and the pleco have their spots, on opposite ends of the tank). I'll try a black out and see how he does. How long should I do it for, do you think? Should I toss him some food (shrimp or pellets?) before hand, or not? On one hand I want to starve him out so that he'll start eating pellets, but on the other hand, the doting fish mom in me wants to just cave in and give him whatever he wants (which is apparently ghost shrimp).

And as soon as it's done monsooning, I'll go out and get the water tested. Some day I'll invest in test kit


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

Since the original three days wasn't a black out I'd say you might try two or three, instead of five as I originally suggested. Whether or not you feed him is really up to you, but if you do, and you go with ghost shrimp, make sure you gut load them first (feed the shrimp until their nice and fat! then feed them to the dempsey)


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

I'll make it a weekend thing, then.

Before i do that, though, something interesting just happened. I was walking into the bedroom to get water sample for the pet store, and he was in his usual people-watching spot-- the front corner. He saw me coming and got excited, and started doing that little little fishy happy dance, where they push up against the glass with their face and wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. So I slid past him and sat down on the bed, and he moved with me, and watched me, a little wary at this point, but still like he was happy to see me. Then like an idiot, I leaned up to get a closer look at him, and that scared him off into his hiding place. So, he is adjusting. Just at his own, very slow pace. Should I continue with you black out still?? I don't want to push him back into his shell by locking him up all weekend.


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

If he's making noticeable steps in the right direction then I'd say hold off on anything that's going to change the routine. That's great news! No need to black him out if he's starting to come out of his shell on his own. Black-outs are always worse for the owners, though. Means we can't enjoy our beautiful fish!

Congrats, I look forward to hearing any updates. They are such cool fish and have their own personality. He'll warm up to you, especially if you feed him better food then his last human did


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

So, he's not been so happy to see me lately. He's losing more color, too, and his fat tummy is flattening out. I've got to get this fish eating!

I stopped at the LFS to pick up some ghost shrimp, only to find the store has finally closed down ( they've been having troubles for the last year or so), so that obviously didn't work out. They sold their shrimp $1 per 20, where Pet Supermarket sells the $2 for 10, and PetSmart $3.90 per 10 (they sell them as tank cleaners, not feeders), so you can see why I don't really want to buy them from the chain stores. I have a new group of young guppy/endler hybrids in QT to add to my guppies in the 50 gallon, but it'll be several months before they give me any fry at their age.

I was searching AquaBid for some cheap ghost shrimp, and came across Fairy Shrimp. They look like they get bigger than ghosties, and are at least interesting to look at should I need to designate a whole tank to breeding food for this brat. Anyone try these before? I'm soaking a bunch of shrimp pellets in garlic water right now, and I'll try those here in a bit. Looks like I'll have to suck it up and buy ghost shrimp from Pet Supermarket, and black him out for a few days. He's most comfortable at night, I've noticed. He was hiding the other night, and as soon as the lights clicked off, he came right out! Such a strange fish...


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

Ok! We have eatage! (Is that even a word?? Probably not... Lol). I bought 6 Tiger Barbs for the purpose of bringing him out of his shell. Well, I added them yesterday night, and this morning, there were only 3. The good news is, he does actually eat and had been swimming around the tank almost non-stop. The bad news is, he's half way through an $8 meal -_- Oh well, I expected as much. Should have made sure they gave me larger fish. The remaining three are smart enough to stay away from him, at this point, though lol I may add some more.


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

Glad to hear the good news! Bummer about his expen$*** taste tho :lol:

Just an FYI, it's not usually recommended to feed your fish live food that you haven't raised yourself. I know that wasn't your intent, but do try to get larger fish that the JD won't eat, simply because you have no way of knowing what conditions the new fish were in prior to bringing them home. They could have a disease or parasite that could be transferred to your JD. A lot of people will breed guppies or something for live food, but you want to stay away from the traditional "feeder fish" :thumb:

Again, I do know that you didn't intend for him to eat them, and I'm sure some tiger barbs will make a much better snack than the $0.18 goldfish many people grab up from Wal-Mart, and it's great that he's actively hunting and catching a moving target!


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

Yeah, I didn't really want him to eat the barbs, but when I saw how small the ones the guy gave me were, I knew he'd go for them. Oh well, live and learn! Next time ask for bigger fish Lol I do have a group of guppies and some platies in the 50 gallon I intend on feeding fry off to him, though. Population control at it's finest LOL I still haven't gotten him to touch any other foods, though. I have a sample of dried krill coming, but I won't get it for several weeks. I'm thinking about trying some fresh shrimp and seeing if I can't get him to go for that.

I did QT the barbs for about a week and half and treated them with ParaGuard before putting them in the tank. I should have kept them in QT longer and grew them out some!


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

I've started up a breeding tank for my Livebearers, and I have eating steadily on mealworms. I threw a wax worm in there for him, and he did not like it lol Buy, he's eating for now, and it'll be probably another two to four months before the Livebearers are at a level where they can sustain their population while being fed off on a regular basis. I'll at least have some fun with it, and feed off the unattractive fish, and make a fun lttle breeding project out of it.


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## stalefish83 (May 22, 2014)

How big is your livebearer breeder? I'm thinking about getting some guppies for my currently unused 5 gallon, but I'm not sure that's big enough. Glad to hear you're getting that rolling though, it'll be great to have a free supply of trustworthy live food for the JD.


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

It's an Aqueon 15 gallon Collumn tank. It's got a nice foot print on it, and it was the better of two options I had for the space available (the other option was a 10 gallon). I'd like to get it up to a 20 long or 29 gallon when I have the space, but for now, this will do. I've got guppies (I think 7 or 8, and more on the way at some point) and platies (2, male and female. And they're the smaller ones, not the freakish 4 inch ones I've been seeing lol) in there right now. I figure that the platies were meatier than the guppies, and would be good for something different every now and then, when the population gets large enough. And my guppies are all endler hybrids, so they're quite small. The platies'll do him some good.

A 5 gallon will definitely not be large enough. I'd do at least a 10 for guppies, if you don't need to use a lot feeders. I actually really like 20 longs for guppies. It gives them lots of space, can hold about 75 fish with out too much maintenance, and a lot more if you don't mind lot of water changes, and it still doesn't take up a ton of space.


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

OMG GUYS!!! I don't even know how to handle this right now, but he just are some pellets! I tossed him a couple mealworms, and they were all floaty so I decided to try and trick him into eating some small pellets. The tricking didn't work, because he picked the worms out with no problems, but when he ran out of worms and only had pellets left, he decided to go ahead and try and few, and ended up eating the whole lot


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sweet! Hopefully he continues.


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

I hope so! I'll keep work at him and not push it too much lol


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

He ate some more pellets last night! I'm gunna keep reducing the amount of mealworms he gets, and sart replacing them with pellets. Hopefully once i introduce the guppies, he doesn't decide to stop eating the pellets again lol


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

Ok, so this fish is obsessed with the plecos Colbalt Algae Wafers. As soon as he sees one hit the water, he's on top of it, eating it whole, like a mini grouper. I'm glad he's eating, but could he not eat the plecos food?? LOL She gets grumpy when she's hungry :lol:


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sounds like he's turned a corner. Nice job


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## Akari_32 (May 20, 2014)

He doesn't like his Omega One pellets, though, but he does eventually eat them. He does like the eLive and the Omega One Shrimp Pellets. I'm still trying to find some spirlaina pellets large enough for him, but they aren't really something I've seen around here. I may order some in a few weeks.


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