# Some Bloat Questions....



## Piper (Mar 3, 2011)

I have a 55G Malawi tank that has been cycled for close to two months now. I stocked the tank with Yellow Labs, Red Zebra and Acei. I lost one fish the first couple of weeks but it had some issues from the beginning. No problems at all for several weeks. I now have a Red Zebra that went off its feed about a week ago. It hides in the rocks at feeding time and will come out but isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t very active and usually sits on the bottom. I feed OSI spirulina flakes. I fast them one day a week.

I am expecting this is bloat. I first thought it was probably holding but I canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t see any evidence of holding. I do have another Red that is holding. Aggression has ramped up a bit lately with the juveniles getting bigger.

My water parameters are excellent. No ammonia or nitrites. I keep nitrates very low with weekly water changes around 20%. Nitrates rarely even reach 20ppm. Water is hard and ph is around 7.8, temperature 74-76. I do run some salt about 1 TBS per 10G.

I have read many of the articles on bloat and I am a bit confused on a couple of issues. This is important to me because my 20G quarantine tank isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t set up yet. The articles seem mixed on whether bloat in one fish is a whole tank event. Some seem to suggest it is a single fish event others that it is likely to spread. The most successful treatment seems to be directed at the affected fish and not the whole tank. So that is the main question and I am wondering if you guys have any thoughts on this. I understand this may be a hard question to answer because what causes this in one fish could also cause it in other fish. The primary issue I have is whether or not it is infectious.

Part of this is determining what to do with the fish showing issues. Do I isolate it or take a wait and see approach? It isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t showing much sign of anything other than the lethargy and loss of appetite.

I could use buckets to isolate and treat Ã¢â‚¬â€œ we have more buckets than Home Depot.

Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There is a lot of debate as to whether it is infectious. This is what I do.

If I have a fish suspected of having bloat (not eating, injuries, thready white/clear poop) AND my hospital tank is occupied I treat the tank with metronidazole. I soak the food in the dosage for the whole tank dissolved in a little water. And dump the whole mess in the tank.

The ones eating don't get sick. The one not eating is likely to recover just from the medication in the water.

If I do have a hospital tank available, I make a judgement as to how far along the sick one is and how healthy the others look.

If I feel I have caught it early I will isolate/treat the one fish and watch the others. Often it spreads no further.

If another fish gets sick then I treat the tank.


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## Piper (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks for the fast response. That make perfect sense. At this point I have two fish off their feed but one went off two days ago after mating and is holding. The other is the one at issue.

I wonder if it is possible to isolate it and treat in buckets? I have countless 2G buckets and several dozen 5G. My tap water is identical to my tank water so life is good with a touch of Prime.


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

DJRansome said:


> There is a lot of debate as to whether it is infectious. This is what I do.
> 
> If I have a fish suspected of having bloat (not eating, injuries, thready white/clear poop) AND my hospital tank is occupied I treat the tank with metronidazole.


How do you treat with Met? 100mg per 10 gallons every 48 hours for 1 week?


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## catdawg426 (Mar 21, 2011)

I've herd the metro will kill your bio filter. Will the small amount poured in make a difference? :-?


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## dtune21 (Dec 16, 2003)

catdawg426 said:


> I've herd the metro will kill your bio filter.


False.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

dtune21 said:


> catdawg426 said:
> 
> 
> > I've herd the metro will kill your bio filter.
> ...


It's always good form to separate some bio when medicating a tank, if it's your only tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

This is what I use. I have never had meds kill my biofilter although half of them state this will happen. Good idea to save some bio if it's your only tank.

I used to grab this from a link in cichlidaholic's signature...I don't even know who posted it. I finally saved it on my PC.



> Location: Elkridge, Maryland
> Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject: A bloat treatment that actually works! Step by Step
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...


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## Piper (Mar 3, 2011)

I was able to catch the fish with the issues and put it in a 2G bucket. I didn't have any Metronidazole and the only thing we could find locally was Tetra Parasite Guard. I am not a huge fan of tetra products but it was the only thing I could find quickly that had Metronidazole even though it is a blend with other meds. I used about half a teaspoon of epsome salt and 1/4 tab of the guard. I will do some water changes since it is a bucket each day before I medicate and see how it goes. I will let you know.

I will order Metronidazole and if I see any other fish with an issue ill treat the tank. Meantime I am also soaking the tank food in garlic water.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> This is what I use. I have never had meds kill my biofilter although half of them state this will happen. Good idea to save some bio if it's your only tank.
> 
> I used to grab this from a link in cichlidaholic's signature...I don't even know who posted it. I finally saved it on my PC.


Found it! 
On a side note. Could someone with a digital scale weigh 1 teaspoon of metro in grams? I'm wondering what the equivalent is compared with the average dosage of 100mg per 10 gallons.


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

Any idea why on the bottle I have, they are 250mg tablets, and says 1 tab for 10 gallons instead of the 100mg for 10g? Also see there is 500mg tabs that also state 1 tab for 10g.

Since mine are the 250mg ones should I be treating 1 tab per 25gallons then?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

xxbenjamminxx said:


> Any idea why on the bottle I have, they are 250mg tablets, and says 1 tab for 10 gallons instead of the 100mg for 10g? Also see there is 500mg tabs that also state 1 tab for 10g.
> 
> Since mine are the 250mg ones should I be treating 1 tab per 25gallons then?


Brand? I'm going by Seachem's Metroplex and they say average dose is 125mg/10g. In the directions however it says 1-2 measures (100mg ea) per 10g, so, seeing as how overdosing is difficult (their words), I think proper dosing doesn't necessarily have to be exact, and 100-250mg per 10g is within recommended concentrations.
This is another reason why I'm eager to find out how much a teaspoon of metro powder is in mg.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

During the course of discussing that treatment over the years with fellow users, I think I recall it being said that it was twice (or more) the recommended amount.


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## catdawg426 (Mar 21, 2011)

have you guys ever used hikari metro plus for bloat?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

catdawg426 said:


> have you guys ever used hikari metro plus for bloat?


No I could never see the point of the extra ingredient.


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## xxbenjamminxx (Jan 22, 2011)

GTZ said:


> xxbenjamminxx said:
> 
> 
> > Any idea why on the bottle I have, they are 250mg tablets, and says 1 tab for 10 gallons instead of the 100mg for 10g? Also see there is 500mg tabs that also state 1 tab for 10g.
> ...


The stuff I have is called Fish Zole. Comes in a white bottle.

http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=17196

Sorry about the delayed response, was looking for this post and finally found it tonight.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks for posting, I meant to update but forgot.
Seachem metro (powder) is approx. 1600mg per teaspoon.
From looking at the quoted example that DJR posted, 1.5 teaspoons in a 75g works out to 320mg/10g (2400ÃƒÂ·7.5=320).
So it's higher than the norm but not outrageous I don't think. Aggressive I'd call it.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

I think the bigger concern with using met is UNDERdosing, not over-dosing. 
If you check out the article here on this site
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php

you'll see he recommends a similar 'aggressive' dosage when using metronidazole.

Robin


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