# fishless cycle gone wrong???



## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

Hi, i started my fishless cycle since 6/3 and has been adding ammonia periodically over the last week (about 15ml in total) and ammonia level has been around 3ppm and 0ppm for nitrite but did not do any nitrate testing though.
6/9 was when i get a 0.25ppm reading for my nitrite with a 1.5ppm reading for my ammonia.
6/10 8.30am reading, ammonia 0.5ppm, nitrite 0.5
add 5ml of ammonia
6/10 8.30pm reading, ammonia 0.5ppm, nitrite 1.0
took nitrate reading at the same time and have a reading of 10ppm (my first nitrate test)

does all this sounds right? i thought there should be no nitrate until nitrite spike.

please help. :-?

btw this is my tank setup http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=172834
thank you.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Normal readings considering you used gravel from an established tank. There would have been enough nitrite converters to begin converting nitrite to nitrate right from the start. Keep doing what you're doing. You're doing fine.


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

Thanks prov356.
Does this mean that the tank is getting cycled soon?
Good time to order my stocks?

6/11 6.30a Ammonia .025 Nitrite 5.0 Nitrate 10

Thanks.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

You're well on your way and will be cycled 'soon', but I'd wait to order just to be safe. I'd guess within a week you'll be done. When nitrite drops it's pretty sudden and not a gradual thing, so don't get discouraged if it stays high for a few days.


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

:dancing: :dancing: :dancing: 
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Can't wait.

Gonna spend the next few day doing research on stocklist.
Any suggestions?

Thanks
Opps, forgot about rocks, need to run over to the landscape company. :fish:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I like to start with a 'must have' and build around it. What did you have in mind for this tank?


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

Hi prov356, just visited your website.....
That was an amazing job you have done on the 180g.
What kind of rock are those?[/img]


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Thanks for the compliment. It's called 'terrapin green'. Got it at a landscape yard. Here's the link.


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

Super great job prov356!

Might have to start a new thread in Decoration forum so as not to get off topic  .

Thanks again. Will update with my fishless cycle tonight.


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

Started a new thread for my stocklist. 
Plesae join me at http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=173917

Thank you


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## cichlids _killer (Apr 13, 2008)

there's no ways u can do the fishless cycle and be done in 2 weeks.... the nitrite will stick around for another 3week before it drop down to 0ppm....if u do fishless and been putting ammonia to keep them at 3ppm when your tank done cycle the nitrate should be off the chart.....i been cycle my 210 for the last 4 week my reading today
ammonia 2ppm
nitite 1ppm
nitrate 100ppm( over 100 for sure)
dont order any fish YOUR TANK is not done cycle anytimes soon


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

he did start with seasoned gravel so his will likely be much faster. With that being said i wouldnt order anything until both ammonia and nitrites are 0


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## cichlids _killer (Apr 13, 2008)

live2bet said:


> Hi, i started my fishless cycle since 6/3 and has been adding ammonia periodically over the last week (about 15ml in total) and ammonia level has been around 3ppm and 0ppm for nitrite but did not do any nitrate testing though.
> 6/9 was when i get a 0.25ppm reading for my nitrite with a 1.5ppm reading for my ammonia.
> 6/10 8.30am reading, ammonia 0.5ppm, nitrite 0.5
> add 5ml of ammonia
> ...


does this said anything that he put some gravel from an established tank in there....????


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for the concern and advise.
Still doing my search for a stocklist.

FYI, i did add about 3 cups of gavel from an established tank.

readings update....
6/11 9.30pm Ammonia 0, Nitrite 2.0 and Nitrate 10
5ml ammonia added.....

Looking good?


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## cichlids _killer (Apr 13, 2008)

live2bet said:


> Thanks for all comments and advise.
> 
> FYI, i did add about 3 cups of gavel from an established tank.
> 
> ...


FYI 3cup of gravel for that big tank doesnt help to cycle faster....as u can see your nitrite is going up from the last test... when u done cycle your reading should be ammonia and nitrite 0ppm .....for my tank i dont have gravel from established tank but all my filter run with old filter pad from established tank is for the last 4week is still not done ....im just trying to help u ..i know how u feel .i cant wait for my tank to be done and stock some fish ,g/l with your tank


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

Thanks cichlids killer, i appreciate your concern  .
i guess i'll have to wait till nitrite and ammonia hit 0ppm.

Anyway, i'm stilll looking for a stocklist.
Have you had a stocklist yet?

gl with your tank too, i guess good things come to those who wait huh? :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

cichlids _killer said:


> does this said anything that he put some gravel from an established tank in there....????


You have to read his other thread that he provides a link to. When he gave his initial readings, I went to that other thread looking for info on whether he had seeded the tank from another because it was cycling in a shorter than typical period of time, and I suspected that he had. Always helpful to read all info before jumping to conclusions. 

And you certainly *can *be done with cycling in a short time seeding with gravel or any other media. Done it many times and so have many others. it may take more or less for him, but point is, it can be done. :thumb: It does seem to work better for some than for others. I heard of one case where a few cups of gravel instant cycled. And I've heard of other like yours where it didn't help at all. I'd stop short of saying 'no way' here based on a single experience of yours. Fish keeping just isn't like that. Too many variables involved. Yes, his nitrite is rising fast, but it's rising *sooner *than it normally would. Everyone here suggested he wait until ammonia and nitrite were zero before adding fish. We're all trying to help him too.


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

Adding anything from a cycled tank is going to help to some degree. Gravel, decor, filter media, anything that has a surface will likely have some bacteria on it and that helps get things going. As prov said there are too many variables and the process is predictably unpredictable.

In my opinion the bottom line is this: By adding the gravel from an established tank you did help out the process. However if any prediction of when the cycle will be done is just a guess and you should keep doing what you are doing until your ammonia and nitrite are 0. At this point order your fish but keep adding ammonia to feed the bacteria until you replace the artificial ammonia source with the genuine bioload.


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## cichlids _killer (Apr 13, 2008)

live2bet said:


> Thanks cichlids killer, i appreciate your concern  .
> i guess i'll have to wait till nitrite and ammonia hit 0ppm.
> 
> Anyway, i'm stilll looking for a stocklist.
> ...


npb thanks yea im already have my stock list ....will order alot of fish from livefishdirectdotcom...(hap and peacock)


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## cichlids _killer (Apr 13, 2008)

prov356 said:


> cichlids _killer said:
> 
> 
> > does this said anything that he put some gravel from an established tank in there....????
> ...


my bad ..didnt read the other post......in my experience i never heard with the big tank and a just few cup its never be done in few week ...in some case that i know my ways much faster than his still (3 1/2 weeks) and yea more or less cycle will be done :-? i have all my reading show on the first week too but nitrite is not going any where yet...


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

my nitrate level stays.....

readings update
6/12 9.30a 
Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 5.0ppm, Nitrate 10ppm
5ml of Ammonia added

i assume we gonna have these readings for a while huh?

thanks all.

btw cichlids_killer, would you like to share your stocklist with me/us? I'm inclined to having Haps and Peacocks as well


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

6/12 9.30pm Ammonia 0, Nitrite 2.0ppm, Nitrate 10ppm
5ml of Ammonia added.
:zz: :zz: :zz:


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

readings update......

6/13 10am Ammonia 0 Nitrite 2.0, Nitrate 10
5ml ammonia added
6/13 8pm Ammonia 0, Nitrite 2.0, Nitrate 60
5ml ammonia added

6/14 11am Ammonia 0, Nitrite 1.0, Nitrate 20
5ml ammonia added
6/14 11pm Ammonia 0, Nitrite 1.0, Nitrate 20

6/15 9am Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40
5ml ammonia added
6/15 11pm Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0.5, Nitrate 40

6/16 9am Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 30
3ml ammonia added

I am reducing my Ammonia dosage now, probably about 3ml every morning......

Are the readings looking right??? :-? 
I have to wait for Nitrate to SPIKE (100ppm) before it is cycled, is that right?

Thanks in advance


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

You're cycled. Once nitrite is 0 after 24 hours, that's it. I don't reduce ammonia even though many articles suggest that. Some of it depends on what you're planning to do regarding initial stocking load. I'd add enough ammonia each day to bring it back up to at least 1ppm, 2ppm is better.

What are you planning to add initially? And what does the 3ml of ammonia bring the ammonia level up to?


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

FOR REAL? Tank is cycled? 

:dancing: :dancing: :dancing: 
Thanks prov356.

But why does the Nitrate level no spike?
 Never check readings after adding ammonia.

Before i stock my tank, i intend to transfer my Oscar to the big tank for the time being until i figured out what to keep (if that's what you asking).

Tomorrow morning if the Nitrite level is still 0ppm, i'm gonna do a 50% water change and move my Oscar over.
Somebody stop me if this doesn't sounds right.

Thanks.

btw, about my stocklist, please join me at http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... c&&start=0


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Without knowing what kind of load on the biofilter you're creating with the current addition of ammonia, it's hard to say whether it would handle the load from an oscar. I'd need to know that before I could tell you it was safe.

Nitrate rises once cycle is complete. It seems to be from the readings you've provided. How fast and how high depends on the ammonia load and water changes.


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

prov356 said:


> Without knowing what kind of load on the biofilter you're creating with the current addition of ammonia, it's hard to say whether it would handle the load from an oscar. I'd need to know that before I could tell you it was safe.
> 
> Nitrate rises once cycle is complete. It seems to be from the readings you've provided. How fast and how high depends on the ammonia load and water changes.


Don't quite understand what you meant. :-?


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## cichlids _killer (Apr 13, 2008)

congrat .....now u can enjoy it .i think my will be done soon too my reading is come out same for the last 48 hours 
ammonia 1ppm
nitrite 0.25ppm
nitrate 70ppm
when my tank done i'll work on my stock list


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

6/16 10pm Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 30

Please tell me i am good to go. Will be doing water change in the morning and moving my oscar over.

Last call for anyone who feels that is not ready yet........speak now or forever hold your peace :thumb: .

Thanks all.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

You can't know if you are ready yet because you don't know what concentration (ppm) of ammonia you've been adding.

Just so I'm clear, it's possible that you could see ammonia spikes that *could harm or Kill* your oscar, and I *do not* recommend you make the move yet.

Just don't want to have you come back and say I said were cycled, so it was ok.

Yes, you are cycled, but maybe only enough to handle a small danio, since you have no idea what level you've been bringing ammonia to. I'm talking concentration (ppm), not amount (ml).

In other words, if you've been bring ammonia to .5ppm daily, and your oscar kicks out 2ppm daily, the bacteria colony hasn't built up to handle that and it could be a very bad day for you and your oscar.

Add some ammonia and *test it.* You need to know that it can handle about 2ppm in a 24 hour period before considering it cycled enough for a large messy fish like an oscar.


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## Malawidolphin (Dec 15, 2006)

when my fishless cycle was complete my Nitrates were only about 50. I did a large water change, added fish and had no problems.


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for all suggestions, comments and advise.

Lastest update as of 
6/17 10am Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrite 40

Doing my 50% water change now.......
I feel it should be ok, as far as bacteria colony is concern, i did brought Ammonia level to 5ppm by adding only 5ml in the begining and have been adding 5ml daily since with no Ammonia level increase. Anyway, i'm gonna feed the oscar light for the next few day.

Wish me/ocsar luck 

Will update evening.

:fish: :fish: :fish:


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

Oscar still ALIVE! :thumb:

6/18 11.30a pH 7.6, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20

Does those readings sound ok?
Why is there still Nitrate in my water?

Now that the tank is cycled (hopefully), please help me with my stocklist......
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=173917

Thank you all.
Couldn't have done it without everyone's help.
And of course you too..... prov356.

Btw, good luck with your cycle, cichlid_killer.


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

Everything ok?
Ocasar looks happy. Looks like everything is gonna be ok.

Thanks all. :thumb:


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## cichlids _killer (Apr 13, 2008)

thanks live2bet....glad things work out for ya.what do u want to keep in there ? south america ( oscar) or african cichlids( peacock ,hap or mbuna)


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## omerta (Jun 20, 2008)

cichlids _killer said:


> there's no ways u can do the fishless cycle and be done in 2 weeks.... the nitrite will stick around for another 3week before it drop down to 0ppm....if u do fishless and been putting ammonia to keep them at 3ppm when your tank done cycle the nitrate should be off the chart.....i been cycle my 210 for the last 4 week my reading today
> ammonia 2ppm
> nitite 1ppm
> nitrate 100ppm( over 100 for sure)
> dont order any fish YOUR TANK is not done cycle anytimes soon


i heard by putting a cube of bloodworms you can speed up the cycle or u can just try using chemicals like stress zyme etc


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## live2bet (May 19, 2008)

No bloodworms for me, omerta, i'm trying to feed my oscar light for a while.

How is your tank getting along cichlids_killer? What's your stocklist like? I'm still have no idea whatsoever :-? .

Please join me at http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=173917 for discussion on my stocklist.

All suggestions all welcome.
Thanks in advance.


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