# Need Help With Sump/Overflow/Intake Hookup



## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

So I have been using some custom PVC siphon overflows. I hate them, although they work relatively well once they are primed. The biggest thing is, they take up quite a bit of room, and they are designed at a depth for my 75 and my new 125 is deeper. Not to mention stuff gets caught behind them.

I have a TruFlow 180 Wet/dry That I will be using.

Truvu suggests this: http://www.truvuaquariums.com/exp1.html

I an hesitant to use a hang-on back siphon overflow. (not to mention this is a bit pricey) I have heard they are hardly worth the hassle.

I am also hesitant to drill my tank. I don't trust myself with my new tank and no places around me will drill a tank.

If I can muster the guts to drill my tank. The options are to install bulkheads and strainers, and just have those serve as the filter intakes. Simple, but I have yet to see why more people don't go this route. Most people want some kind of overflow.

I could also do an overflow, but I am trying to keep it cheap, without sacrificing filtration capacity or screwing something totally up.

I have time on my hands, but not money... :lol:

Any ideas/advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## Jowlz (Dec 19, 2008)

I went thru this a few months ago. I considered both ways. I was very close to ordering a kit to drill my tank, but ended up going with the hang on back style of overflow. It works great. No issues at all. I have turned the power off to it repeatedly and it has never lost prime.


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

Hmm, I am still considering the hang on back type. Thanks Jowlz.

A guy on Craigslist says he has drilled over 200 tanks and will do it for $10 per hole.

The question now would be, do I want an overflow, to just install strainers on my bulkheads?

Are there disadvantages to not having an overflow and just using bulkheads with strainers? Seems to be a good solution, but I can't figure out why people don't do it.


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## kodyboy (Dec 9, 2007)

lifereef makes awesome HOB overflows and these look promising: http://txholeyrocks.com/catalog/product ... cts_id=584


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_skimmerless_overflow.php
Give bulldogs unit a look..I can verify, it works just as it says it will.


> If I can muster the guts to drill my tank. The options are to install bulkheads and strainers, and just have those serve as the filter intakes. Simple, but I have yet to see why more people don't go this route. Most people want some kind of overflow.


I don`t know either..but if you want totally silent operation there is no option, you would have to drill it.
HTH


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## sleepy09 (Jan 15, 2009)

> Are there disadvantages to not having an overflow and just using bulkheads with strainers?


If I were you I would have the tank drilled in the back of the tank. One in each corner and 2 closer to the center in the middle. The 2 in each corner for overflow into the sump/wetdry and the 2 closer to the center as the returns. Use the bulkheads with strainers for the overflows and for the returns you can get directional fittings so that you can adjust the direction of flow. Use one inch thin wall pvc for the overflow plumbed straight down to the sump and 3/4 inch thin wall pvc for the returns. You can also tee each of them in the back of the tank so that you will only have drill 2 holes in the stand one for the overflow and one for the return.

I have 2 internal overflow boxes in my 125 which are nice but they take up alot of room in the tank. I wish that my tank was setup just like I described above.


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## sleepy09 (Jan 15, 2009)

I would like to give you another idea. You could have 2 more holes drilled for a canister filter.

I have an FX5 canister filter running on my 125 gallon. I hate the way you have to install the intake and out flow over the back of the tank. Of course you don't have to use an FX5 canister to run into this problem because all canister are installed this way. If you were to have 2 more holes drilled one about 4-5 inches from the bottom for the intake and one closer to the top for the out flow you could avoid have to hang the hoses over the back of the tank. I would also paint the back of the tank after installing the bulkheads so that you don't have to see the plumbing running up the back of the tanks. If you paint the back of the tank before installing the bulkheads they might leak because of the paint getting in between the seals.


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## sleepy09 (Jan 15, 2009)

LOL one more thing. If you take my advice and set it up like I described make sure you use sweeping elbows on all of your bends. The regular bends will slow down your water flow.


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

I haven't decided, but thanks for all the advice.

I don't want to buy a canister when I already have the wet/dry.

I figured out the reason for overflows instead of just bulkheads with strainers is two fold.

One is noise reduction. There is a lot of water trying to flow through each bulkhead and that creates a lot of noise.

Two is a matter of good filtration. The more lateral inches of the water are going into the sump the better. The volume is good with just strainers, but not the lateral inches of filtration. Every piece of debris that needs to be filtered will need be within a close proximity to the strainers. Where an overflow might be closer to more debris and also will skim the top layer of gunk off the top.

Overflows often take up more room than needed. Because it has nothing to do with the depth of the overflow, it doesn't need to run the depth of the tank. In fact, The idea I have is for a thin overflow that runs the length of the rear of the tank, but only a couple inches deep.


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

Okay so after playing with it I figured it might be easier to have it run the depth of the tank.

Anyways, the white is the return. The three holes at the bottom will be hooked up to durso type standpipes. There is three for redundancy.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> I have time on my hands, but not money


That said..use what you already have..
What pump are you using for return from your sump?


> they take up quite a bit of room


PVC overflows do not need to be tank hogs. My pretzel only had 2 pipes in the tank, lift tube and spraybar.


> overflows instead of just bulkheads


A properly drilled tank is dead silent, overflows will ALWAYS make noise, they have to in order to work.
Nice drawing  I tried playing with hycad..got frustrated and removed the program


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## sleepy09 (Jan 15, 2009)

I wasn't sure what you meant by overflows. I was thinking that you meant an overflow box in each corner when I said that they take up alot of room in the overflow.

This is what my overflow box looks like with the durso standpipes installed. As you can see they take up alot of room and won't fit in some overflow boxes. Those prefilter sponges that you see in the tank were in the overflows. I just installed the durso standpipes and tossed the sponges in the tank since they were well established with bacteria. Now they are floating in my wet/dry waiting to be called on to cycle in another tank.


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

I wasn't thinking corner overflows. A more pleasing design would be to have the overflows in the middle back of the tank. That way you have more viewing space.



















Here are my 2" PVC overflows. The white spots are them.

They aren't bad as far as footprint. I just don't like the look of the PVC, both in the tank and coming out of the tank. Also, the nature of these means there must be a vent pipe at least a bit higher than the tank itself, which creates a poor look. I haven't created a hood and I don't plan to for a while.

Going Forward, all the lines from tank to sump will be flexible tubing with some PVC parts for extreme bends.

I am going to buy 3M Colorquartz for substrate. Probably black S grade.

Rock either limestone boulder or blue granite (see image below) which is a very local rock.

Overflows are noisy, but they don't have to be. Most times, people are trying maximize flow so water is flowing over at a high rate for each overflow. If they had more linear inches of overflow the fall of the flow per inch would be much less. Think of it like turning on one sink full blast versus 10 sinks on at 1/10 capacity. The 10 sinks collectively would be more quiet than the single sink. Same water capacity, less noise. Also, this is the concept of the overflow filtration, the more linear inches of overflow you have, the quieter they are. However they obviously can filter that much more water. Potentially, you could turn on all 10 sinks full blast. It just depends on your level of noise tolerance and pump capacity.


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

PS. Try Google Sketchup. Easy to use for the beginner, but complex 3D drawings can also be made.


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## sleepy09 (Jan 15, 2009)

> That way you have more viewing space.


That is the reason why I thought about the idea if drilling the holes into the back of the tank and using strainers. I hate how much space the overflow boxes take away from the viewing area. I don't know anything about how much noise it makes by doing it this way but I just thought it would have a better look.

I have seen it done this way in a couple of threads in here but I havent seen anyone say anything about the noise factor. Ill have to look around on here and see if I can find them. If I can find them I will post the links here. The idea of running an FX5 the way I described was also someone elses idea that I read on here.


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

I think running the bulkheads with strainers that way could be noiseless.

Here is how. The strainers need to be well below the waterline. In order to make this happen, you need enough pump capacity to keep the water above the intakes AND you need a sump big enough to handle the extra water in case of a power outage.

I like the idea also.

Some glass company wants $45 to drill holes!!!! HAHAHAHA!


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## sleepy09 (Jan 15, 2009)

I really like that idea too. The next big tank that I do will be set up this way. It will probably be a 150-200 long tank. I thought that I was going to like a reef tank with the overflow boxes but now I would rather have it without. I didn't realize how much room they take away from the fish. Not to mention how hard they make it to install a nice aquascape background.

You are right about the bulkhead and stainer placement. They would have to be pretty much close to the top so that when there is a power outage or when you have to shut the tank down for some reason your sump woudn't over fill.

The setup that I have now works great in that sense. My sump is a 30 gallon tank that is made by Oceanic. It is a Oceanic 150 Plus wet/dry.

You might have seen my setup but just in case you haven't here is the link.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=187503


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## t0rns0ul (Dec 27, 2008)

I had the same dilema, to drill or not to drill?

Well, after viewing many videos on youtube. I drilled my 135g, two 3" holes for two 2" bulkheads. Drilling the tank was suprisingly smooth and very easy and I'm very glad I did it. After I measured out where I wanted the holes. I siliconed a piece of scrap glass to the inside of my tank to allow me to drill into. By doing this, you wont chip your glass as you punch through. I used some plumbers putty to make a circular reservoir of water (cooling, lubricant) covering where I wanted to drill. Drilling took about 15 minutes per hole, thinner glass will take less time, piece of cake!! :thumb:

For overflow boxes. I located a plastic (plexyglass) distributor (sdplastics.com) and made my own DIY overflow boxes to go around the bulkheads . They are black which match the rear glass which is painted black and do not go the depth of the tank. They sit up high and around the bulkheads. Each overflow box measures (8"w x 6"h x 2 3/4"d) which give me a total of about 33" of linear overflow, rating for roughly 2200Gph. Currently I am only pumping 1300Gph, so if bioload increases I can always pump more water.

No more unsightly pipes coming over the top of my tank and nor do I need to deal with syphon tubes, ugh! But, I also have plenty of linear overflow and no noise. Best of all, I did it myself and it was cheap!! :dancing:

I will from here on out always drill my tanks. Its easy and inexpensive.

Cost  
Black Plexiglass and liquid weld $20 sdplastics.com (you could also ask to raid the scrap bin. sdplastics.com charges $1 lb, i picked up some scrap to use for dividers in my sump)
3" diamond drill $15 (FREE shipping) glass-holes.com
2" Bulkheads $9 each total $18 (Free shipping) glass-holes.com these guys rock, even tossed in some candy with my shipment :thumb:
Plumbers puddy $1.35 home depot


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

I've seen glass-holes.com.

I want to drill, just don't trust myself.

Tell me more about the scrap piece of glass that eliminates chipping?


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## t0rns0ul (Dec 27, 2008)

acrosstic said:


> I've seen glass-holes.com.
> 
> I want to drill, just don't trust myself.
> 
> Tell me more about the scrap piece of glass that eliminates chipping?


 I was worried about chipping and/or breaking the glass. I didn't have a drill press to help guide the drill through evenly and all at once. So, to prevent the drill from cutting through unevenly (half the circle cuts through first while the other half is still cutting) which causes stress on the unfinished side of the circle leading to possible chips or fractures. I used glass siliconed on the underside of my hole adding support and alllowing me to drill all the way through and into the siliconed glass without causing any stress. Not a single chip!! Just be sure to allow time for the siliconed glass to adhere before drilling...


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

That is a good idea. I've seen the pros do it and even they have small chips of glass.

Seems like a good solution if you have a little time to wait for the silicone.

The question is...can I make the overflow myself?

OR do I just buy this one http://glass-holes.com/product.sc?categoryId=3&productId=7

$95.

$15 glass hole cutter
$20 weld-on
$10 Bulkhead
$25? Material

$70.

I'll save $25 building the overflow box myself. The glass holes guys have some kind of baffle to reduce noise. I wonder if I can replicate.


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

:thumb: Cool place... you can tell they are all right by thier quotes!


> An aquarium is a hole between sheets of glass that the aquarist fills with money


 and their 3/4" bulkhead strainer is


> Guaranteed to not pass dolphins.


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## t0rns0ul (Dec 27, 2008)

Weld-on shouldn't cost more than $5 and is enough to create an entire Acrylic tank and then some Youtube video on acrylic welding. Its very easy

They are good and ship fast. I had my order in two days!! Customer service reponse was under 20 minutes with an answer!

I would just order the kit and save yourself the time of hunting down a plastic dealer. I wanted two overflow boxes and that would've cost way more than the $20 I paid to build my own.

Also, you might as well pick up some street elbows. No need to drill for airline in street elbow if you plumb your pipe down on an angle to your wet/dry. This will prevent air pockets that cause the slurp as air and water will both pass freely through the drain pipe simultanously.. The slurp is caused when you plumb your pipes straight down, causing air pockets to form in the drain pipe. Pressure will build up until theirs enough water weight to slurp past the air pocket. Sluuurp. If you run your pipes virtical, drill for airlines or take a look at the dorso standpipe design, which is basically what hte airline does. Allows air into the drain pipe

Example: imagine a two litter bottle of soda. turn it up side down. The flow wont be smooth and will make noise because the soda flow needs to stop to allow air into the bottle. Once air enters soda will flow again until more air needs to enter. Causing the slurping or glug glug sound

Now take the same bottle and title it at an angle. Air can enter the bottle as soda pours out simultaniously creating a quite steady flow. This is what we get with non vertical drain pipes or by adding dorso or airline into the drain pipe.


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

very nice description. Thanks. I am aware of the air needs. I have two vents on my pvc overflows.

I have two plastic dealers. I'll start there. I want it about 1/3 the tank length in the center.


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## sleepy09 (Jan 15, 2009)

When I installed my durso standpipes I started with the smallest bit that I had and 11 or 12 bits later I had them tuned. I don't here the water drain down the pipes anymore. The only sounds that my tank makes now is the water draining into the overflows which isn't loud at all and the hummmm from the pump in the wet/dry.


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## t0rns0ul (Dec 27, 2008)

You might have seen these already, but just in case as they helped me out with my design

Overflow & Drain Calculator
http://www.aquariumpros.ca/modules/Over ... b5eda988cc

Drain & Overflow size calculator, while here check left margin for more calculators
http://reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

I have, but I had misplaced the link. Thanks :thumb:

One 1.5" Drain or two 1" Drains?

I was thinking two 1", because of the safety factor, but more water actually passes through a 1.5 and I only have to drill one hole.

Then again, two 1" would enable me to make four holes all the same size for a couple returns.

Will the glass-holes.com bits last for four holes?

Recommendations.


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## t0rns0ul (Dec 27, 2008)

acrosstic said:


> One 1.5" Drain or two 1" Drains?
> 
> Recommendations.


It really depends on how much water you plan on pumping"

But, two 1" holes in same overflow mounted center would work, gives a little redundancy incase one drain pipe clogs. Unless you are running two sumps, then two overflow boxes for total redundancy



acrosstic said:


> Will the glass-holes.com bits last for four holes?
> 
> Recommendations.


Absolutely! Just be sure to keep water on the hole while you drill.


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## fishyfishyfishy (Dec 24, 2005)

Using a larger pump to keep the water above the intakes won't work. All that will happen is that the water will drain from the sump faster than it is filling. And the water will never really find a true operating level either.

But, you could consider external durso standpipes. The tee assembly goes on the outside and the elbow goes on the inside. However, 1" is not recommended as it can be too restrictive. You would want to use 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" PVC with bulkheads of equal size.

I tried that method on a 265g I had a while back, but it didn't work well...but that's probably because I had 1" plumbing/bulkheads.

Personally though, I like the one big overflow in the center of the tank idea, which is how I did mine. It's really long and narrow so it doesn't stick into the tank too far. The sides have very gradual angles so it doesn't just pop up out from the back suddenly. And, with a top to bottom overflow, I installed lower and mid level intakes so I'm not just pulling water from the surface. Basically, I copied the All-Glass Megaflow design. The overflow was made black to match the back of the tank so it really becomes invisible.


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

Yeah the intakes without an overflow seems to be a bad idea to me the more I look into it.

I found scrap at $1 per pound at one place and .50 for 8x8 squares at another.

It will be easier to get the 8x8 since they are open Saturdays.


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

I got 20 - 8" X 8" squares (Approx size) $2 a can of Weldon 3 for $6 and an applicator bottle for $4.

In total $12 :dancing: . Now I just have to build the thing. :thumb:

I'm thinking 1" bulkheads, because I have a ton of 1" pipe already, so this will keep it cheap. That means 4 holes. 2 Overflow, 2 return.

Now I have to settle on my design. Here is my current thinking on the matter. I am going to plan so can also switch my overflows from corner to center if I want to. So the 4 holes will be spaced according to this.

Also, because of the 8" scrap, I am also going to make two overflows. They can sit side by side in the center. This also gives me an additional 4" of linear overflow doing it this way. Also more redundancy. It also provides a center area for a heater (Which doesn't fit in my Truflo 180 :x ). I can move the overflows to the corners if I at some point I feel I want that.

The issue I am having is the return lines now have to be 1" as well. Currently my return goes from 1" to 1/2" in the tank. I guess there is no harm in going 1" all the way to the tank and narrowing the return inside the tank. Going from bulkhead to a narrow spray bar.

The concern I have is the pumping power. Will my Magdrive12 be able to drive two 1" pipes to the top of my tank without losing considerable pumping power. It would be about 4.5' high. Normally the magdrive can pump about 1125 gph that high, but how will pumping it into two 1" pipes change this number?


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## sleepy09 (Jan 15, 2009)

Both of my overflow boxes are drilled with 2 1 inch holes. Both drains are 1 inch thin wall pvc from the bottom of the tank to the sump and the returns are 3/4 inch thin wall pvc. I have a mag drive 9.5 (950 gph) that keeps up with the flow perfectly. I use the Durso standpipes in both drains and the 9.5 still keeps up with the flow that they provide.


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## t0rns0ul (Dec 27, 2008)

Sweet deal on the plastic!! Once you start welding you will find it incredibly easy, fun and addictive.. I had to fight the urge to weld every plastic item in my house together.. hahah



acrosstic said:


> The concern I have is the pumping power. Will my Magdrive12 be able to drive two 1" pipes to the top of my tank without losing considerable pumping power. It would be about 4.5' high. Normally the magdrive can pump about 1125 gph that high, but how will pumping it into two 1" pipes change this number?


If your only going to run one pump. Why bother with two returns??

If you do decide on two returns, split it at the top of your head height to reduce back pressure. Its better to push the water to your head height in one pipe than two. Once at the head height you can split it and it won't reduce your water flow as much as it would pushing to the head height on two return liines.... Just a thought


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## acrosstic (Mar 24, 2008)

The reason for the two returns is to eliminate dead spots. Putting returns in each corner will give me better water movement towards the overflows without the need for a powerhead.

I'm also either going to buy two of these: http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewI...~view~idProduct~FT0035~idCategory~FIFTFB.html

and/or two of these http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewi...in110inch&utm_campaign=mdcse&site=google_base

I'm still trying to determine if I want to try UGJs again. Last time I had to pull them out because my Psuedotropheus Crabro is what I call a mega digger. I've had to lay rocks on top of sand to keep him from digging like crazy. So he exposed the pipes every 10 minutes. I might again go without them for this reason. I have everything I need for the setup though.


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