# The problem is me, not Nitrates!



## EnginerdLisa (Jul 14, 2014)

So I have been fighting high Nitrates for ever (like always 40-80ppm). I figured I was just an over feeder, even though I thought I wasn't. But even after doing a 50% water change the nitrate level doesn't drop. Ok, time to test the tap water. Say what?!? My tap water tests 80ppm? Can't be. Today I took tap and tank water over to my LFS for nitrate testing. Tank tested 10ppm, tap tested 5ppm. So I bought a new nitrate test kit. Brought it home, shook the heck out of both bottles for 2 minutes, tested both tap and tank, they still read 40-80ppm to me.

Either I lack the ability to differentiate shades of orange or something is up. Is there an easier to read Nitrate test kit out there?

Here is the tank test


Tap test


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## workharddieproud (Nov 7, 2013)

I have tried different test's and API is about the best. As for your tap water test, if your really unsure, take it to your local water company. As far as I know your tap water shouldn't be over 10ppm of nitrate. Your test's are certainly high, 40 to 80 for sure. MY tap water does test at 10ppm for nitrates and now I have a counter top filter that removes them, that I also use it to fill my tank with during water changes so my fish get very clean, clear, fresh water.


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## jas1313 (Dec 3, 2012)

That's funny! Not really I'll explain: I have exact problem. Did what you did with same results. I have maintained my tank perfectly. I have done everything! This went on for over a year. Wanna know how I fixed the problem?? I have stopped testing nitrates. Haven't tested for months. Fish never seemed happier. And myself as well for that matter. It was hard at first but it needed to be done (or not done depending on how you look at it.) And I'm back to a normal water change schedule. No more 75% once a week. I do roughly 40% once a week.
And for the record, I have never lost a fish. They look healthy, act healthy and spawn like crazy.


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

jas1313 said:


> That's funny! Not really I'll explain: I have exact problem. Did what you did with same results. I have maintained my tank perfectly. I have done everything! This went on for over a year. Wanna know how I fixed the problem?? I have stopped testing nitrates. Haven't tested for months. Fish never seemed happier. And myself as well for that matter. It was hard at first but it needed to be done (or not done depending on how you look at it.) And I'm back to a normal water change schedule. No more 75% once a week. I do roughly 40% once a week.
> And for the record, I have never lost a fish. They look healthy, act healthy and spawn like crazy.


I do a 20% water change every week. I change the poly -fil in my polishing Maxi-Jet 1500 every week and haven't checked my water chemistry in 6 months. All of my fish are happy, breeding and looking good. If fact, I have 4 small fry living amongst a tank full of supposedly aggressive fish. :fish:


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

I understand your frustration, and I made a similar post not too long ago, because I have a problem reading the various shades of orange in these test kits, too... API Fishcare has a facebook page, just search for it, and they have some postings about their nitrate test kits... so before you swear off testing for Nitrates, buy another one from a different source (maybe they had a bad/expired batch) and let me copy this for you below...  I hope this helps. There are people who have reported high nitrates in their source water... you need to know...



> Part 1: Nitrate test Kits.
> This first section can apply to any type of kit but it comes up a lot when discussing nitrate testing. How do you know a test kit or test result is accurate? Nearly all aquarists get their answer by comparing one nitrate test result to another kit. How do they determine which result is correct. In most cases the assumption is...the lower test result is the accurate kit. Why? Because we want to believe the "better" result and not the higher result. Is this reliable or even logical?
> 
> How to laboratories and test kit manufacturers find out if their test kits or methods are accurate? This validation begins by making up test solutions with known amounts of nitrate. We would make up solutions containing 0, 10, 20, 30 ppm nitrate and then run the tests. Since we know what the result should be we can tell if the test kit or method is working properly by testing KNOWN concentrations of nitrate or ammonia or pH for example.
> ...





> Part 2: Nitrate test kits.
> ALL nitrate test kits rely on exacting test methods in order to get accurate and consistent results. If the instructions on ANY kit are not followed the results will be incorrect. Each brand of nitrate test kit gives instructions on how to run their kit. Regardless of brand at some point you will be adding a metal powder to the test tube. The metal powder could be in a powder form or suspended in a liquid like out API kit. Once the metal is added to the test tube, it is shaken for a specific time period in order to react with the sample and form a color in the test tube. The color in the test tube is directly proportional to the level of nitrate in the water IF..IF...IF the test procedure was followed correctly. If too little or too much of the metal is added to the test tube the results will be lower or higher than the actual nitrate level. If your test kit uses a tiny scoop you must be accurate and consistent in your "scooping". With the API test kit you MUST shake Bottle Number Two exactly as described BEFORE adding drops to the test tube. If you just give the bottle a couple of shakes then turn it upside down and add drops...think what is happening. The metal particles are not fully suspended and most likely settled at the dropper tip. This means too much metal is added to the tube and the nitrate result will be incorrectly high. Now imagine running the test again and you happen to shake Bottle Number 2 for the correct amount of time. The nitrate result will be correct and BUT will be lower than your first test result. What to conclude? "Hey...this test kit (whatever brand) is no good. The results are never the same." The reality is the error is caused by not consistently following the test procedure. Following test procedures are critical in an analytical lab and even when testing an aquarium. Nearly all testing errors in professional labs and in the home are due to some type of user error. Take a look at the test tubes in the picture. The middle tube is showing the correct result. The far right tube shows a result where too much metal was added; high reading. The far left tube shows what happens when too little metal is added: Low result. This is enough info for now! next week i will post Part 3. I really hope this helps explain nitrate testing no matter which brand of test kit you like to use.


 (the photo you can't see shows shades of orange to deep red...)


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## jas1313 (Dec 3, 2012)

I don't want to high jack this thread in any way but I'll clarify my problem. I don't have trouble reading test kit and I purchased several to make sure I didn't have a bad batch. It is only my African cichlid tank that is reading high nitrates. So I can only assume the tank has nitrates. I have beat this topic to the ground and have done literally everything. Therefore the only thing left to do was to concede to the fact that my tank has high nitrates. And apparently I cared more than my fish. Last I checked (5 months ago) my nitrates were at 80ppm. I have no idea what they are now but I have my sanity - that's my point


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## hisplaceresort1 (Mar 10, 2014)

jas1313 said:


> I don't want to high jack this thread in any way but I'll clarify my problem. I don't have trouble reading test kit and I purchased several to make sure I didn't have a bad batch. It is only my African cichlid tank that is reading high nitrates. So I can only assume the tank has nitrates. I have beat this topic to the ground and have done literally everything. Therefore the only thing left to do was to concede to the fact that my tank has high nitrates. And apparently I cared more than my fish. Last I checked (5 months ago) my nitrates were at 80ppm. I have no idea what they are now but I have my sanity - that's my point


jas1313, understood & agree, but EnginerdLisa does have some trouble reading the results, like many of us do for some reason. (It's really odd, because my half-colorblind husband can differentiate those colors better than I can...) but I quoted all that info off the API facebook page because I thought it made some other good points, _like not assuming that a lower-reading test kit is automatically "more correct" in its reading_, etc.

And I agree with you, it is frustrating. Now, I'm a newbie, and I certainly don't want to contradict anyone, because I'm convinced most people on this forum know way, way more than I do, but... based on what I've read here, repeatedly, in all kinds of posts... 80ppm is not a safe level of nitrate to be telling people is acceptable... and most people on this forum will tell you they change water when they get between 20 - 40ppm, and try to keep it even lower when a fish is healing up from injury or getting sick...

The great thing about high nitrates is that you can go from 80ppm nitrate to 40ppm with a 50% water change. If you do a 75% water change you can get it down to 20ppm... all assuming your source water is not contaminated.

The math is that simple, so I am thinking EnginerdLisa's _source water really may be that contaminated with high nitrates_, regardless of what her lfs says, and regardless of the fact that city water is not supposed to be... because quite frankly she sounds smart enough to run the test the same way each time, her source water tests high, and her tank water readings don't change after a water change. Even if something was wrong with the kit, you'd think the readings would change after a water change, even if they were skewed. I just don't want to assume her LFS is right because their readings were lower.

EnginerdLisa; 3 things:
1.) just for giggles... try a different water source with that same test kit... friend in a neighboring town... something... see if you get the same kind of readings from source water that is from some... other source water. maybe your kit really is bad... test some distilled water for a baseline. If I correctly understand distillation, it would be just about impossible for bottled, distilled water to have nitrates. just trying to eliminate some variables...
2.) Seachem Purigen is amazing for reducing nitrate, btw...  
3.) buy another of the same exact test kit from a _different _source. run simultaneous tests with both kits and see if there is a different reading. The only thing I would mention is that the instructions do not say to shake the _first _bottle.

...and please let us know... opcorn:


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## dalto (Aug 20, 2006)

My wife didn't do any water changes in her overstocked mbuna tank for well over a year. None of her fish showed any outwards signs of distress and were active and constantly breeding. That being said, I don't recommend abandoning water changes based on this evidence.

I also don't believe that you need to micro-manage nitrates for the rest of your life either. Early on you need to measure nitrates to understand how fast they are growing and ensure your water change amount and schedule is appropriate. Once you have it down you should be able to spot check a few times a year. Alternatively, you can just do really large water changes an not worry about it.  When I was using tap water in my tanks I used to do 80% weekly changes in all of my tanks. Never had a nitrate issue


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## jas1313 (Dec 3, 2012)

-hisplaceresort1: Agreed... I'm taking more of the sarcastic approach although I'm not exaggerating. If that makes sense. My case may be different. I exhausted every option so I gave up testing. I still take great care of my tank (s). Funny how simple math didn't work for me. Even after consistent 75% changes my nitrates never budged. Like I said I'm passed that so not even going there. Please don't think I neglect my pets. We all have a responsibility to keep them healthy. :fish: 
To be serious, I hope EnginerdLisa gets everything squared. I know the frustration. I really wish I had some solid advice but I don't believe throwing in the towel sounds very positive. And yes there are many people on this site that can and will help.
Good luck!
I'm done rambling btw


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I always keep my nitrates < 20ppm. The results are easier to read at that level.


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## MeCasa (Apr 5, 2014)

I think what jas is hinting at but is wary to say is:

Ya'll worry to much, I've raised cichlids for 40 years and in some ways things were easier before we had the internet to help us micromanage our biology and psychoanalyze our fish.

If your fish are unhealthy then the problem needs solving, but if the fish are healthy and happy then you should be the same regardless of the nitrate level (which I blissfully ignore)


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## Bikeman48088 (Nov 13, 2013)

MeCasa said:


> I think what jas is hinting at but is wary to say is:
> 
> Ya'll worry to much, I've raised cichlids for 40 years and in some ways things were easier before we had the internet to help us micromanage our biology and psychoanalyze our fish.
> 
> If your fish are unhealthy then the problem needs solving, but if the fish are healthy and happy then you should be the same regardless of the nitrate level (which I blissfully ignore)


I agree. People successfully kept fis before we measured nitrates every other day. I bred cichlids in 20 gallon tanks the 80's and never had a test kit.


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