# Breathing hard & 1 fin clamped to body



## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

*Cichlidaholic *- what do you suggest as you are familiar with the history *or Other members suggestions welcome.*

9 Peacocks (2 male - 7 females) ---- (1) small (female/male ? = sick one), (1) small female, (5) medium females, (2) lg male.

3 small Perlmutts ~ 1' each.

Tank/Fish - 1st set of fish placed in the tank 3 weeks ago, 2nd set 2 weeks ago.
WC every 3rd day previous to sick behaviour, now 30-40% each day + added salt for the past 2 days.

*Fish #1* ~He was breathing heavily and hanging by the corner - very little movement unless others pass him by- started 3 days ago (Sat)
*Day 1* - put him in 1 gallon of water + 1 tsp salt for 1/2 hour. Breathing is much better. 5G/1 tbs salt added to entire tank.
*Day 2* - gave him another 1 tsp/1 gallon salt bath and did a 5G wc and added 1 tsp salt to entire tank. Swimming and not hanging out by the corner anymore (but still keeps to himself) but hasn't eaten for the past 3 days.

*Fish #2* ~ (Sun) yesterday after 5G/1tbs wc noticed he had 1 fin clamped to his side. Not hiding, swimming and mixing with the others. Did another 5G wc right after just n case it was the salt affecting him. Added 5mg of Melafix to the entire tank.

They all hang out in the same corner with the dominant male, even when he chases them from his favourite rock.

This morning everyone (counted all 12) came up to the surface to eat (thought I was going to feed them). I was in a hurry, but did not notice anyone swimming with 1 clamped fin so hopefully they are on their way to recovery.

Just in case #1 is still not eating - water parameters are good and he was not overfed. They are fed for less than a minute.

#2 if 1 of his fins are still clamped, should I continue Melafix or try something else. Not sure if he wounded himself on rocks - no sign of a clear injury.

Fed once per day - 2 pinch for 12 fishes - NLS extra small sinking pellets and Tetra cichlid crisps.

Everyone else is fine and has an appetite. Can anyone say what the difficulty could be?

Note: I added salt to the last 2 wc due to heavy breathing and to take care of any nitrates/nitrites.

How often can salt be used in wc as I found it appears that the flashing has minimized alot - maybe one the odd time since 1st salt wc?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

The salt, (sodium chloride) will help to detoxify any nitrite. Won't do anything for nitrate or ammonia. You only need 1-2 teaspoons per ten gallons to detoxify nitrite however the larger amounts won't do your fish any harm. Just try to make sure that you dissolve the salt first and then add it gradually to the tank. Also replace any salt removed with water changes.

It won't hurt to continue with the Melafix but Melafix is used to speed healing of an open wound. If there's no actual wond on the clamped fin then it's probably not going to help much.

What are your water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? What sort of test kit are you using? Paper strip or test tube type? What are you using for a declorinator? Do you notice any changes in the fish directly after a water change? Do they swim more or less? 
You mentioned that the first set of fish was put in the tank 3 weeks ago--was the tank recently set up? If not was the tank without fish for any length of time prior to adding fish?

And I'm a bit confused: are all the fish pretty much hanging out in one spot in the corner and then only move when it's feeding time/and or the dominant fish chases them? Is the dominant fish hanging in the corner, too? Are they at the top or bottom of the tank? Under the filter return or--?

Lastly: what size tank is this?

Robin


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

Hi Robin,

120G
Liquid kit - less than 6 months as recommended by Cichaholic.
Tank was fisless cycled for 3-4 weeks before fish was added. Fish in tank for 1 month now as I returned the ones that were in the tank 2 weeks ago and added the Peacocks + Pearls. Therefore, I believe the tank was cycled as it's always had fish in there. 
Parameters: Amm = 0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = 20, ph = 7.2

All the Peacocks with the exception of the sick one stays in the same part of the tank as the Lg dominant male, even the Lg. sub dominant male. They are not in any distress as they swim, play and hang out togeather (at the bottom, in the middle and all over when they are ready and behaviour is normal. 
The Perlmutt are a different story, they swim all over and are the troublemakers (kids) lol. No agression, the odd time the At times they will shoo the females away (but not the 2 male).

Fish #2 is back in form - appears the water change (salt) did something to his fin. He ate today and swam as she normally does.

Fish #1 is swimming about (still not in full form) - will swim with others, but stays on opposite side of the tank. No sign of distress today.

*Problem - #1 is still not eating.* Everyone else did their usual greeting for food and he just did his own thing. *Does he need some of that Metro.. meds?* No white feces. Today is Day 3 since he has not eaten.

*Can I continue the 5G/1 tsp wc daily to see if it helps him?
How often/long can/should you use salt?* - they flash less since salt. Flashing before was not abnormal (1 fish flashing 3x/hr) based on info received before from Cichaholic. Flashing occured more after wc, but subsides after a couple hours or by the next day.

*I mixed the salt in warm water and added it to the 5G bucket and then in one shot added water to the tank. Is this incorrect?* Should I add a little of the concentrated saltwater over a couple hours? A little unclear of procedure, please clarify how to add it over time - how long, ect? I use Prime as suggested by Kim since Peacocks have been added. Used a conditioner that adds bacteria and conditioner (aloe vera) Big Al's brand/Stress Coat before. No problems until the last 3 days.

Also, I've added Cycle to the last two wc along with the conditioner and Prime. I realize I may not need anything more than Prime but the others were used to ensure filter got as much help to keep bacteria with every 2nd day wc. *Is it ok to do a 10% each day or 25% every 2nd day*

Thanks again Robin.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

You can AND SHOULD do 25-40% weekly water changes on that tank. Just be sure to use the Prime at the recommended dosage: you want to dose for the entire tank volume, not just the amount of water that's being replaced.

1 teaspoon of salt per five gallons, or 1 teaspoon per one gallon???
--not sure which you're doing but either way it's not a lot of salt. You just want to make sure you keep the salt amounts consistant. If you've got 1 teaspoon per 1 gallon in there and you do a water change and remove ten gallons then you want to be sure to add ten teaspoons of salt with the new water. Dissolve it first but you if you're re-adding salt then you don't need to add it slowly. Just add it with the water. When you initially add salt to your tank THAT'S when you need to add it slowly. Over 6-8 hours time I would say.

Where the tank is new there still could be a problem with water quality so try doing 25% water changes every day for the next week.
Fish #1 who is not eating MAY be holding. Is he/she swimming around normally? Does the fish show interest in the food when it's dropped in but then swim away? Is the fish unusually aggressive or defensive of a particular spot in the tank?

You could either remove Fish #1 and treat with JPC or give it a few days of observation and daily partial water changes and see if the fish either improves, shows definitely that it is holding, or neither in which case you should remove and treat. With a tank that large it might be too difficult to catch the fish in which case it wouldn't be a bad idea to treat the entire tank. But give it a few more days of observation before that.

What did you do exactly for the 'fishless' cycling?

Robin


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

Hi Robin,

Thanks for the clarification on adding salt. I have been adding 1 tbsp salt to 5g wc. 
****How long can I keep adding salt to the water changes? *

*Is it ok to continuouly add salt with each wc for the future or should salt only be added when there appears to be a problem?*

I don't think the fish is holding as when it first stated to breath heavily it's mouth was visibly open and I did not see anything that appeared to be eggs. It is also the smallest 1.5' of all the peacocks and I have a suspicion it's a male, as it has the same white glow at the top edge of it's dorsal fin (same as the the 2 lg male).??? I will continue to observe to see if this may be the case - that would be great  He pays no mind to all the fuss when it's feeding time - comes nowhere near the food - it's as if he doesnt care that food is around. I even tried to feed him in the bucket when I gave him a salt bath and he didnt even notice the food. He is much better since yesterday aside from not eating.

*Fish #2* ~ appears fully recovered - figured the salt did something to him after the wc??

I will continue with the partial water changes to see how he does over the next week.

*So use JPC - Jungle...? in a week if he's still not eating? Can I treat him in a 5G bucket with the JPC or would it be ok to treat the entire tank*, as presently the 2nd tank is cycling?

*If I treat him separately in a 5G bucket - what is the steps please?* If you feel it's best to *treat the entire tank - what are the steps and how long do I continue the treatment for? Is it still ok to continue salt treatment with the JPC?

Sorry to ask for step by step but I find it easier to follow to ensure I am treating them correctly and don't want to lose any of them with a mistake.

Thanks again for all your help.*


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> Is it ok to continuouly add salt with each wc for the future or should salt only be added when there appears to be a problem?


Some people routinely keep salt, (sodium chloride) in their tank for various reasons and not always in response to any kind of problem. But regardless of why you're adding salt to the tank you need to know exactly how much salt per gallon you have in the entire tank so that way when you do a water change you'll know how much salt to add back in when you replace the water. Fish don't like sudden changes so that's why you want to keep the salt levels consistant through out water changes.

Yes it's okay to keep the salt in there while treating with JPC. You can treat the fish in a separate container but you need to have some kind of filtration/watermovement. A sponge filter would be fine. 
It might be just as easy to treat the entire tank. The directions are on the package. Basically you just drop the med in the tank. 
I would NOT wait a week if the fish still isn't eating. Give him a couple days. And be doing the daily water changes.

_What did you do for the fishless cycling? _

Robin


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

*Fishless Cycle* - added pure ammonia for 3 weeks, each day. When ammonia spiked and then leveled off to "0" and nitrite was "0", I did a water change the day before adding the fishes.

When fish were added the readings were - Amm = 0, Nitrite = 0, and Nitrate was about 5-10.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

BLACK_AFRICAN said:


> *Fishless Cycle* - added pure ammonia for 3 weeks, each day. When ammonia spiked and then leveled off to "0" and nitrite was "0", I did a water change the day before adding the fishes.
> 
> When fish were added the readings were - Amm = 0, Nitrite = 0, and Nitrate was about 5-10.


Sounds good. Sometimes when people say they did a fishless cycle what they've actually done is just run the tank without fish for a few days or weeks--which as you know, doesn't get it cycled. 

Robin


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

Hey Robin,

#1 came with the rest to eat. I fed them xtra small NLS pellets. He tried 2x to eat it and spit it back out 2x. After that he had no interest in eating while the rest devoured the pellets. He's still swimming about but majority of the time keeps to himself in his own little corner. He's the smallest so I'm not sure if he's stressed as he moves out of everyone's way quickly when they visit his corner and then retreats back to the corner of tank after the visitor leaves.

I know you said not to wait a week but should I wait another day or 2 to see if he'll eat as he's trying?

I checked the LFS - The only JPC (Jungle Parasite ...)was in tablet form. Is this what you are referring to?

Should I just follow the instructions on package or do you suggest a higher dose, longer period of time, continue wc daily while being treated etc..?

#2 is good to go!! (no issues) :dancing:

Thanks again. Have a great weekend.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

spitting out food and not eating are one of the first symptoms of bloat. It's possible that he just needs more time to settle in but the problem with waiting is that if it is bloat then meds will only be effective for just so long. The sooner you begin treatment the better the chances are of survival.

I'd do a 40% partial water change with a good quality declorinator and begin treatment ASAP.

Glad the other fish is doing well.

Robin

And yes, just follow the directions on the package. If the fish still isn't eating after one course of treatment then do an other water change and treat again.


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

I will start the treatment today.

I have been performing 25-30% wc every day for more than 2 weeks, so I will up it to 40% every day until I see a change and let you know the results.

I believe in one of cichidaholic's post that bloat can be caused by stress, but can't find the post to confirm. *Could you confirm for me please *as I'm not sure if I fed too much as I give the 12 of them a pinch of Tetra Min Sticks and a pinch of NLS xtra small pellets 2x day. I try to give them enough so that each and chomp at least 3 pieces of each food. 
The Pearls are 1" (barely) but they tend to consume the most as they get to the surface and dine while the Peacocks will only reach the surface if I summons them before I feed. Peacocks will then go to the middle and wait, by then Pearls have devoured them. 
I do find a balance and trick the Pearls to one end and drop the pellets for the Peacocks so they sink before Pearls realize what's up. Will try feeding only once a day. 
Figured the Pearls would be the 1st to get bloat if overfed, so might be stress, *what do you think? *I am in the process of setting up another tank for the Pearls to give the Peacocks a break and hopefully they will spawn to populate the tank.

Sorry for the long posts, but I've been searching the net and this forum for info on specifically Eureka Peacocks ie. Behaviour & Breeding and had very little luck. Hopefully, this can give others specifics on their behaviour. Also the search feature filter brings up too many irelavant topics even with specific words (unless I'm not utilizing it properly). *"STILL THE BEST FORUM ON CICHLIDS"* :thumb:

Just glad there are members who can help those who have little or no experience with these beauties (cichlids in general). Most importantly, I'm sure you guys save quite a few of them by being so helpful and patient as some need a step by step direction to avoid fatalities.

Thanks again.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

The 25-30% water changes that you've been doing are plenty, especially if you're doing them every day. Siphoning the gravel will also be helpful.

On the bloat: its not always food-related. Most fish have intestinal flagellates that reside in their intestines without causing the fish any sort of harm, however when a fish becomes stressed these flagellates may suddenly increase in numbers to the point where they are no longer harmless.
The stress _may be _food related: too much food, the wrong type of food, suddenly switching from one food to another, but the stress may also come from rough handling, poor water conditions, aggressive tankmates, etc. Just about anything. So the best way to avoid bloat is to take good care of your fish. Maintain proper water conditions, feed the correct diet, deal with aggression problems right away, etc.

We don't know for sure that your fish #1 has got bloat but where bloat is so common and so deadly its wise not to take the chance.

Sounds like you're doing a good job on the feeding. You realize that you need to be a little tricky to make sure that all fish get an equal chance at the food. 8)

Robin


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

Thanks so much for the explanation, I have a better understanding now.

I will easy on the wc everyday. Started testing water consistently everyday to see when nitrates reach 20 as other posts said this was the indicator to change when it creeps up to that level, no higher than 40. So havent changed the water for 2 days - nitrates are fine.

*I have another tank *filled with water (no Prime), 1 aerator, 1 heater, heated at same temp as main tank, new gravel sitting for a few days now. I would like to move the Pearls (for now) to give the Peacocks a break or at least until the tank is a few months old + I want them to breed and the Pearls are like children (very active and challenging, and always up in the business) lol

I have a Eheim filter I that I just added to the main tank 4 days ago (I unplugged it for about 2 hours to add more substrate, did not change the water - washed substrate in tap water to remove dust and then soaked it in some of the tank water and added it to the filter). So it technically has been running consistently for 2 days.

*I have decided to run this filter on the new tank* and add some of the main tanks gravel and decorations to give it a boost in bacteria. As I will be medicating the main tank, *can I use the small Aquaclear (the one below 50) with the Eheim to transfer Pearls over same day if all tests are ok. *
*Other option *is to do the above (don't add Pearls) - add some ammonia for the period of time I will treat main tank with JPC, and on the final day add fish to new tank after a 50% wc as it will be cycled by the time meds are finished. What do you think?

Thanks again.


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

Hi Robin,

As I had to treat the tank with JPC today I went with the latter to set up the new tank.

-transferred the Eheim and Aquaclear 30? Filters.
-added 3 cups of main tank gravel
-trasferred 2 rocks and 2 plants (fake)
-transferred about 15 liters of main tank water
added 2 capful of pure ammonia - readings Amm = 1.0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = 10

- 45 mins after 1.0 Ammonia reading I added another  2 capfuls of Ammonia, 
now 2nd reading 1 & 1/2 hr later is Ammonia = 2.0

*What # ammonia reading should I let it go up to before laying off the ammonia*?
Then should I start adding every 2nd day for Ammonia readings to level out to "0" as I woul like to add fish in the next 6 - 7 days? 
It shouldnt take 2 weeks for Nitrite to level out should it as shorter cycle? I don't want to overkill the ammonia & lengthen the process.

I realize readings for Amm & Nitite must be "0", & do 50% wc before adding fish.

The JPC package instructed that you can repeat treatment 2x every 48 hrs w/ 25% wc. I plan to do 2 treatments (finish by Thurs.) and then try to feed after wc. *If he's still not eating do I do a 3rd treatment?*

*Will I have to use Melafix for 2 weeks after for secondary disease* as I've read or is this not neccessary?

Hopefully all will be well after this and I can stop writing this book :lol opcorn:

Thanks again for the help.


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

Anyone?

2nd round of JPC treatment today. Fish spitting back out the food - no change. Came to feed shortly after JPC tablets were dropped in but disinterested in food). Came again today, but spit it out and no interest while others feast. Still keeps out of everyone's way. Observed him closer - appears one fin has a little nip (as if the fin was split in two). No problems swimming about + mixing with others (sometimes). Mainly keeps out of everyone's way for the most part.
I'm assuming he is stressed.

Do I need to add Melafix after 2nd treatment or do a 3rd treatment first?

What next if I treat tank 3x and no change.

Thank you!


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. Past couple of days have been consumed with caring for a much loved ailing cat who sadly died yesterday.

On the fishless cycling tank that you're adding ammonia to: 
I would check out the article in the forums library on fishless cycling to get the exact amounts of ammonia, timetable, etc. 
Where you used much of the established media from the other tank I'm not sure the ammonia is all that necessary but now that you've started it you should probably stay with it. 
You know the tank has cycled after you've first seen the ammonia rise and fall back to 0, then the same for nitrite and finally you should end up with Nitrate being somewhere around 10ppm. Once that's happened you want to get fish in there asap since the filter will need the ammonia created by the fish's waste to keep the bio filter alive.

On the non-eating fish: have you tried removing him to a separate tank? It may just be that he is being harrassed by another fish. Usually fish will continue to eat when being harrassed but not always. Also it's preferable at this point to do the final JPC treatment just on the one sick fish. Might tell you quite a bit about this fish and your tank dynamics if take this fish out.

Melafix is best used for speeding up healing of minor open wounds. Nipped fins would be considered minor wounds so go ahead and use the Melafix and also continue to pay close attention to water quality.

Did I miss anything? 

Robin


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

Hi Robin,

I'm so sorry to hear about your cat. Must be hard especially when you get use to a pet and they are not there to greet you when you get home. I only have the fishes, but it's a pleasure when I get home to see the little rugrats scamper to the front for food.

In regards to the sick fish - no changes - the odd time it will try to eat and spit back the pellet.
It appears another one is sick - same behaviour. She does not appear to be eating and keeping in a corner.

The JPC appears to have no effect. Also, I have noticed 2 small pieces of waste that is white in colour, the other waste are still orange. So I would assume it's bloat (white). Can you suggest another meds - Clout? Not sure if it's available in Canada, but I will check today. Is there any other meds that I can use for bloat or just use the Melafix and see what happens.

The tank I am trying to cycle is to move the fish, but I did not want to do that until the meds are finished. I have a post under "Tank Set Up" - New Tank - Nitrate & Ammonia.

Things don't look good, so I can only hope they sell Clout at the LFS.

Have a great weekend and my condolences again. Just remember the joys he/she brought to you and all the fond memories.

No you didnt miss anything. Just glad to have you back as it's a brute trying to get answers or help since you've been gone.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Clout would be a good choice but it's not available in Canada. Another choice would be PraziPro, or just straight Metronidazole. If you choose Metronidazole check out the Spironnucleus article in our library for directions on how to dose the metronidazole. (Look under Cichlid Health)

I'm surprised you're not seeing improvement with the JPC. You're using it at the full recommended dosage? Its usually very effective if you catch the bloat early on.

Melafix alone is not going to do anything against Bloat. The fact that you've got another fish showing symptoms is typical of bloat. Usually you'll get one fish who gets it and then a week or two later another previously healthy fish will start in with the spitting out of food, lethargy, etc. 
It's really important that you do as many partial water changes and gravel siphonings as you can and ALL your fish, even the ones who are not showing any syptoms should be treated.

Let me know how it goes.

Robin

And thanks for the kind words about our wonderful cat.


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

You're more than welcome! Nice to have you back!

I followed the JPC instructions to a T. Did a 25% wc + 1 tab/10G (if more than 40G, disolve # of tablets based on tank size). Repeated treatmnt 3x - 48 hrs between each treatment - no change.

Something is definately wrong, the "Big Man" (dominant male) did not try to muscle anyone for food this evening. He made no real attempt. Even the sub dominant male was bold enough to show his true colours for a good amount of time while the dominant male "chilled out" (not protecting his territory as he usually does. He (sub) only shows his colours when it's been dark for awhile, this is the longest, so I know the Big Man is not himself. He's my baby & he's sweet (like cherry, oranges and peaches all wrapped in one) He's simply gorgeous !  :drooling: Can't afford to lose him, so any suggestion you have is appreciated. I can only be humorous, as I'm really concerned now, especially since the JPC had no effect. Believe I read hollyfish had no luck with it either - recent JPC topic. *What is your experience with JPC?* Were your fish not eating too?

LFS (Big Al's) sold the Clout $5.99, THANK GOD! :dancing: :fish:

Did a 30% wc 4 hrs ago (syphoned gravel as usual) + Mixed 1 tab/10G. Treatment as per package should be effective in 24 hrs. Have always done a partial wc every 3 days.

All except the 1st sick one (no change, same behaviour) seems ok. Today is 14 days that he has not eaten. I will do a fake feed to see who comes for food tomorrow.

*Should I wait until Sunday to actually feed or fast them until Monday? * I will repeat treatment tomorrow evening as a double precaution.

I was going to use the Melafix after treatment to ensure no secondary disease. *Is this not neccessary*? *Are there any ill effects to use it as, I've given them 2 different meds now. *Tonight the females have been very aggressive with each other & the males (mend their fins if neccessary). Only the 1st 2 that were originally added 1st did so. This is the 2nd time (I observe them pretty regular).

*What do you suggest if no change after Sunday?*

*Re: 2nd tank-* *Nitrates = 5.0, Nitrate dropped from 20/40 to 10 (in 24 hrs), Ammonia = 0*
Added same amount of ammonia to bring it back to 2.0, but it only brought it to 1.0 now. Just can't figure out how to get Nitrites down, then I'd be good to go. Unable to really get any assistance in Tank Set Up. Hopefully it drops in the next couple of days.

Have a great weekend. It's a long weekend here (Civic Day) so I will have ample time to watch them. I will post an update by tomorrow evening to keep you in the loop.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

So the 'Big Man' has stopped eating? Or just the behavior change? Its possible that the sub dominant fish has taken over the top position. It happens.



> All except the 1st sick one (no change, same behaviour) seems ok.


So the other fish that was showing the same symptoms as the first fish, he's okay? Eating?

I would go ahead with the Clout--try following the Clout/bloat directions in the Bloat Cure sticky linked below. I'm surprised you found some. My fish catalogs say it's not available to Canada. Perhaps the stores can't get new shipments. . .

I wouldn't use the Melafix unless you see that fish have wounds that need healing. I don't know if its necessarily harmful otherwise but it's just not going to do anything until there's something to do. Minor fin nips will usually heal up with good water conditions as long as they are not being continually nipped. From all you've said I do wonder if there's an underlying aggression problem here that is 'fueling' the problems you're seeing. Fish are extremely prone to disease when under stress.

The reports we get back from members on JPC are that it works. That and the fact that it's relatively cheap and readily available make it one of our more recommended meds. (My personal experience with it is limited--haven't used it in years since I haven't had a sick fish in years. My tanks have all been set up with the exact same fish for at least four years and all the fish get along so there's not much that would stress them and cause illness).

Sometimes people say Clout is 'harsh' but in my experince with it it wasn't harsh, it worked.

Robin


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

Yes the BIG MAN was not interested in food and did not exhibit his normal behaviour. That didnt last for long,  few hours after Clout (don't know if that made a difference) but he was back in full form. Not sure if he's eating but he is behaving normally, and comes when summoned (fake feed).

The 2nd fish is not hiding (hanging out by herself anymore). Behaviour only lasted 1 day.

#1 is swimming around more, but still mainly keeps in the corner. You can see that he has lost weight and still tries to stay out of everyone's way. Hope he eats when treatment is completed by Tuesday.

Not sure why one of the female is terrorizing the rest. This started when BIG MAN had a few hours lapse (non dominant behaviour). If I understand correctly do they not get more aggressive when not fed?

I will wait until Wednesday pm (Day 6) to see if everyone is eating + hopefully tank will cycle by then so I can do the transfer to see if that will help. That will also tell me if aggression is a factor when I separate a few.

*If he's still not eating then, can I put him in a 5G with aeration for a few days to give him a brake and do a wc each day?*

Talk to you Wednesday unless something major changes before then.

Thanks again.


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

No rest for the helpful Robin :-? Sorry to seek advice so soon again.

I summoned them for a fake feed and 9 came, the other 2 was busy looking at their reflection and sick one is "chilling" in a no traffic spot. They are swimming and mingling for the most part.

On Saturday evening 20 hrs after 1st full treatment, I gave them the 1/2 treatment after 25% wc = (Day 2), checked on them frequently for about 4 hrs (seemed there were improvement - #2 was not hiding anymore). Did not view them them all day yesterday (no wc).

*11:30 AM* - I looked at them 3 hours hour ago, the sub dominant male and 1 of the lager female has lost colouring) in the sense that he is pale + colouring is practically gone - bare traces of flourescent.

As for the female they *generally wear a dark colouring, but their bars are always visible * even when they wear a *lighter silver dress*. Those are the only 2 dress they exhibit. *Now she is * pale, no bars. 
Even the BIG MAN - still has his colours, but it is not jumping out at you. The only where bars are fully extended to the belly and visible. Could this be a side effects from the meds?

Also a couple of the other female's, their sides (under the gill at belly - pale as, the bars in that area are "paled out" - best way to describe it is - it looks as if they have no scales in that small patched area, but when you look closer, it appears just the colouring is faint (bar lines cuts off early & does not fully extend to belly.) V patch = *>*. Hope that is clear.
*Is this a part of their changes in normal or do you think it's the effects of maybe the meds?*

*2:00 PM - UPDATE:* I held off posting the above earlier to see if any changes.

Robin, some sneaky, risky business appears to be going on,*I think #2 is holding* :dancing:  :dancing: *You don't know how much better I feel as I was so worried about the colouring *mentioned above. By the way, *their bars are showing now, but the "V" pale patch (bars not extending to belly fully) described above is still there*.
I think she's holding, as I watched them for awhile and she just kept staring in the side of tank, while others with the exception of #1 swam around. She would'nt open her mouth and her mouth looks swollen and she will girgle it around every now and then as I've read. Right now she is chilling in #1's area peacefully, away from everyone as there was too much action with the group.

I will watch for awhile and do *only a 75/80% wc as she maybe holding - no meds*. *Will the meds have harmed the eggs if she has been holding?*. The final (Day 4) full treatment is due in a couple of hours.

Thanks for your patience and all your help and advice.


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

Robin,

Just an FYI - I put a post in Malawi Section. Wanted to hear any experiences as to how things turned out if they had a fish holding and meds involved.

I am following and awaiting all your instructions or advice, so thanks again. I will do ONLY the wc and add NO MEDS if you are not available by late pm and wait to hear what you advice re: whether to add last full dose of meds. Glad you are here to help.


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

The BIG MAN appears to be chasing the women & knocked himself on a rock or something. Small "knick" on his face, nothing that looks "too too serious". As the female is holding, should I treat him will Melafix or will the water changes heal it over time?

I did a 60% wc yesterday, no meds. They have not eaten since Friday and a few days before that (due to JPC). Can I feed them today to see if meds worked?

I'm not optimistic that #1 will eat (fake feed brings everyone else but him). What would you suggest next?


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hi,

It's a little hard to follow all of this but my overall impression is that there's an underlying problem with aggression in the tank. Fish will loose their color and stop eating when they are being harrassed. They also become much more susceptible to disease. 
I think as soon as you can separate some of the fish the better.

Yes go ahead and see if they will eat. 
On the slight injury to Big Man's head, it may heal up just fine with water changes only but adding the Melafix may speed things along. 
On fish #1, if there's an aggression problem then he may not eat until he feels safe.

Robin


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

Hi Robin,

I agree that #1's issue is aggression. I believe it's a male, not a female - behaviour, white flourescent hue at the top of his fin, as the other 2 males. He is also less than 1/2 the size of the other Peacocks and that is where the aggression comes in. Not much I can do until the 2nd tank cycles to move him and the female who is holding.

As much as #1 is the victim, he's still a fighter, he has spunk, saw him actually take a stance with 2 other females 2x his size (they weren't bothering him - he approached them) and they actually backed off. 
He looks much better, but as you said he may not eat before he feels safe. Speaking of eating, he came to get a part of the food, but too much action for him to get in on the feast. He's definately showing signs of improvement - mingling now, so hopefully he'll eat when moved, we'll see.

As for #2, her issue is she's holding.

*(Re: This last weekend Post)* - I also think the paleness was a combination of being medicated with 2 different meds & no food ---> aggressive when they were not fed for that long period of time. Everyone of them, w/ exception to BIG MAN (was not as bright), was pale (even the Pearls), they are never stressed. I was very concerned as I didnt know what was happening, and didn't have the experience to know that there colour would resume again. I should of figured out it was a combination of everything. I thought it was a turn for the worst. Shortly after doing the 60% wc, stopped the meds, their colouring, stripes came back and even better when they were fed. Back to normal (as far as I can see). The meds did help, however, *I think they can be reinfected sifting and spitting back out the old feces *- I've tried to vacuum as much w/o stirring up the whole tank. *What do you think?*

From all of this, I've learned quite a bit about their behaviour. The BIG MAN is very territorial, but it seems they all like to hang out with him and none of the other Peacocks hide, they just return to his hang out. They've been this way from Day 1. Some days they are more aggressive than some, especially when the males are ready to do their thing and my girls play hard to get (as they should) :lol: :thumb:

In a nutshell, I've learned what they like, and understand their behaviour - when to be concerned and when to know they're just being Peacocks.

Will update you on #1 when the other tank is cycled.

A million thank you's for the insight, explanations, advice and help, learned alot. "Gracias, Merci Beaucoup". :thumb: Take care.


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## BLACK_AFRICAN (May 21, 2008)

Hello Robin,

GREAT NEWS! My baby pulled through nicely. :dancing:

Tried putting him in with 2 females, he was too aggressive with them so I separated him by himself for 2 weeks, the 1st week he tried to eat with great difficulties, then by the 2nd week he was able to eat bits & pieces of flakes, but not NLS 1 mm pellets. He's colored up even better than the large sub dominant male since.

Moved him to another tank with the large passive sub dominant male & the (3) 1" Pearls and he's the dominant one @ times, even though he's only about 1 1/2" :lol:

In the last week, he started eating the pellets - Fully recovered.

Can't wait until he can give the dominant male a run for his money!

Thanks again! Take care.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Hey that's great!

Thanks for reporting back.

Robin


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