# Tetra safe start experiment !! How good is it really.



## ceech (Jul 4, 2010)

Hi all,
I am going to run a test over the next few weeks on tetra safe start for cycling a tank.
It is Biospora/ Tetra SafeStart as tetra are part of the same company now as some know.
I have setup a 20 gallon tank with media filter and tetra safe start for cichlid fry.
I started with 3 small fish first and media filter and gravel in tights.
2 days later i added tetra safe start to the tank as dosage said.(5ml for 6 litres)
The day 2 added it the levels were as follows:
Amonia 0.25 , No2 0.5 , No3 0 , ph 8 , kh 10 , gh 10.Temp 27 c 
Will keep testing and a very close eye over the next while to show my results.
Lets hope it stays good as i add the fry tomorrow.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

you used media and gravel from a mature tank?


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## ceech (Jul 4, 2010)

yes i have also used media filter that was squeezed from a filter from a clean tank that is up and running 3 years with no problems ever.
I will run another test with just safe start after but i need to get this tank up and running as fast as i can for now for my fry.This is the reason i have used it with media filter and some gravel.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

then your experiment is tainted and null, you cannot use this as a proper measure for the effectiveness of safe start

when you do the one with just safe start, is when you will get proper results


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

a good test would be using safe start and ammonia, this way you can have control over how much ammonia enters the system

I would also test the effectiveness of a properly sized bottle of safe start for the tank, and the smallest sized bottle.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

What a waste of money.

Just age yer water overnight with filters runnin. Add your fish and bio culture. Forget testing with ammonia and different amounts to see how effective it is at different stages unless you are being paid to or gots cash to waste. If you have seeded material all the better. Then test daily and do WC's as req'd to maintain a healthy tank.

The whole point is to get a sufficient colony of BB to keep your stock from suffering higher nitrItes than they have to. If you have the time do a fishless cycle, if you are up against it and need to get your tank up and running quickly use a bio culture. They have come a long way these last few years and work very well when time is not on your side.

Use common sense.


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## ceech (Jul 4, 2010)

time is not on my side this is why i need to get it done fast.
I understand in respect it is not a full test but i will see if it does keep down amonia and no2 levels as it says it does.
I will run a new tank some time next week with safe start only and see how good it goes with a load of zebra diano in the tank from day one and monitor levels closely.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

ceech said:


> time is not on my side this is why i need to get it done fast.


That was the point of my response. It is your particular emergency that these bio culture companies are trying to target. I am not faulting you and believe you will have good results.

What I was saying was don't waste your hard earned cash trying to prove or disprove wether it will take 2 days or 7 days for said culture to work. Let the labs do that and use your cash for more important things.


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

ceech said:


> time is not on my side this is why i need to get it done fast.
> I understand in respect it is not a full test but i will see if it does keep down amonia and no2 levels as it says it does.


As compared to what? Where's your control tank?

As mentioned this is null. Sorry.


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

Wow.... what a bunch of party poopers. :lol:

Ceech... test away. :thumb:

Everything we do tells us something, as will this.

When you stated that you "squeezed" filter media from an established tank, I got a bit confused. Did you use filter media from an established tank or just squeeze a sponge (or such) from another tank over media going in this tank.


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## heyteacher (Jul 12, 2010)

I have had tremendous results with Safestart. All water tests have been right on target. I have used it for my three community tanks (all Eclipse systems) and intend to use it again when I start up my 55gal tank this summer. I give it two thumbs up! :thumb: :thumb:


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## aquariam (Feb 11, 2010)

I didn't mean to party poop. It's just hard to do an experiment when you can't really say how much better you were than the baseline, because you haven't calculated what that baseline is.


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

I don't disagree. But not everything has to be advanced science. We know from our own experiences the varying effectiveness of quick cycling a tank.

Move an established filter from Tank A to Tank B and Tank B is instantly cycled.

Move a portion of established media from Tank A to Tank B and Tank B will mini-cycle, depending on the amount of media moved and the bioload on Tank A.

Move a portion of gravel from an established Tank A to Tank B and Tank B will experience a full cycle, albeit a shorter one than would have occurred had the gravel not been used.

Squeeze a sponge from Tank A onto Media from Tank B and Tank B will full cycle, albeit it will be a shorter cycle than would have occurred had you not taken this approach.

Now if you do any one of the above (excluding moving an established filter), with ammonia and nitrite registering, add SafeStart, and the next day you have no ammonia or nitrite, then you are pretty much assured SafeStart had a positive effect. Which tells us something.


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## Bearbear (May 8, 2010)

I think the big variable is storage of the Safe Start before the consumer gets their hands on it. 
That can make or break it, as it has been mentioned before many times.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Don't waste yer money trying to see how quickly the bio culture will convert *measured amounts of ammonia* to safe limits. I am sure people will be interested for "YOU" to test for this and that and make pretty graphs and powerpoint charts, but I do not see anyone offering bottles of culture or offering to compensate for your investment in *testing with ammonia added in specific amounts*. Save your cash, the stuff is pricey. Unless of course you have the cash to burn

Put your fish in, add the culture, test away, I think you will be surprised. Then post your results as I am sure plenty of us would like to know how your* fish *fared.


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

BearBear you hit the nail on the head, I can't stress it enough, ceech I really hope it works for you and I completely support your wish to add data to the pool of knowledge, however it doesn't change my opinion of the product and my opinion is that if it works for you, it doesn't guarantee it will work for me, the sole reason being shipping and storage by warehouses and storefronts. While alot of trucks have air conditioned trailers so that they can transport anything other than refrigerated goods, some warehouses are not, on the contrary some warehouses are A/C'ed but then if the trucks arent...

The point is I personally, can't trust ALL of the middle men and variables that have to line up in order for it to work, I don't deny that in cooler climates and cooler times of the year the product will work, but I think it will be hit and miss this time of year.

-John


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## ceech (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes i had add squeeded media filter from a good tank but if i had only done this as i have before it would take me 2 to 3 weeks in total from what i have seen from doing it before.
This time i want to see if the safe start will give the tank a boost and get it done faster that was all.
we are not talking huge money here it cost me 15 bucks for the safe start which is not allot if it does what it says.
I understand there is lots of different ways to do this test but this is one of many ways.
As said i could only use safe start or as i have done with gravel and squeezed media filter but either way every test has a result as will mine.
As said from the start i need this tank fast.
Results for today are as follows.
Amonia 0
No2 0
No3 between 5 and 10


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## ceech (Jul 4, 2010)

today levels are as stands.
Amonia 0
No2 0
No3 10
so lets hope it keeps going this good


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

fox said:


> Don't waste yer money trying to see how quickly the bio culture will convert *measured amounts of ammonia* to safe limits. I am sure people will be interested for "YOU" to test for this and that and make pretty graphs and powerpoint charts, but I do not see anyone offering bottles of culture or offering to compensate for your investment in *testing with ammonia added in specific amounts*. Save your cash, the stuff is pricey. Unless of course you have the cash to burn
> 
> Put your fish in, add the culture, test away, I think you will be surprised. Then post your results as I am sure plenty of us would like to know how your* fish *fared.


i'm not confident enough that this stuff is 100% effective 100% of the time, which is why I would never use it with fish, only to shorten a fishless cycle, this is why i said to use ammonia, and not to use fish. also i think a true test is more accurate when everything that can be controlled, is controlled. and before you go off again, he's the one who stated he was running the "tests" so it's obviously something he decided to do, I was just providing the means of a true test that can legitimately hold water. I understand *your* concern about the money and all that, but some of us like to do stuff like this, I would not consider it a waste for me to properly test safe start the next time i have to fully cycle a tank, it would be my pleasure to spend few bucks and few days to not only get a shorter cycle on my tank, but to be able to properly inform the people on this forum


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## KristinAnn (Jul 14, 2010)

I don't think it's a waste of time or money. If you were going to use the product and have the test kits (which you should), then why not test if you have an extra 5 minutes. I understand the test isn't perfect, there should be a lot more control and accuracy, but I like the idea.

I would like to see a test of many tanks at the same time using different methods. Fishless using ammonia and no bacterial additives, fishless with ammonia and bacterial additives, fishless using ammonia and established filter media, with fish and no bacterial additives, with fish with bacterial additives, and with fish and established filter media. Same room and temp, same water supply, same test kit, etc.

But I say good job, ceech, using the opportunity to run the tests and see what happened. No harm in learning something, even if it's not perfect. Thanks for the info!


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## ceech (Jul 4, 2010)

thanks for all the comments i only put this down here incase someone was in the same situation as me needing a tank fast and no fiter to spare to swap over.
I have been very happy with it so far and will defo in the future do a test with only safe start !!
But i think every test is worth documenting no matter what others think.
EVERYONE is entitled to their opions and that is fine with me ;-)


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## ceech (Jul 4, 2010)

Results as of today are:
Amonia 0 
No2 0
No3 5
All my fry seem to be doing good are active and swimming around enjoying there new tank


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

nitrate shouldn't be dropping


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## ceech (Jul 4, 2010)

the first time it was between 5 and 10 its around the same today so it is.
its not 5 and its not 10


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## Lawsman (Mar 11, 2010)

I have always used Seachem's Stability and never had a problem. I added a colony of 20 Troph's in a 156 and all survuved and showed no signs of stress.

Used it many times and still do. It has always worked well for me?


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## ceech (Jul 4, 2010)

forget to write up results earlier
Amonia 0
No2 0
No 3 10
Done a 20 % water change today as i have fry in the tank.


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