# Water clearness issue and water buffers



## spyder-CT (Nov 16, 2004)

I have a problem, minor, but it's driving me crazy. I have a 300 gallon Tanganikan tank. I do a 40% weekly water change. I have 2 Eheim Pro 3 filters, each rated for a 300 gallon tank alone. I also have an Eheim 2222 on the tank rated for an additional 40 gallon tank. I use the 2222 for emergency or Q-tank purposes. I have many small fish in the tank, the largest is only 3 1/2". All fish are healthy and breeding like crazy.

Here's my problem, my water is cloudy. I have very small particles in the water I can't get rid of. I maintain my filters every 4 weeks and they are relatively clean. I added an extra Eheim 2026 and filled it with fine filter floss and fine pads 3 days ago and it made no difference.

One thought, my water from my tap is very soft, KH of only 1. I add seachem Tanganyika buffers at a rate of 1TBS per 5 gallons plus Cichlid salt. I'm thinking the buffers could be clouding my water. My reason for this thought is my water changing buckets have scaling from the buffers that is hard to remove. If it won't dissolve in the water bucket it probably won't dissolve in my tank. But why won't the filter clear it.

Iâ€™m perplexed by this and aggravated by it since I work so hard at this tank all the time. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Michael


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## zugbug (Dec 12, 2005)

Few questions first.
1.How long has the tank been set up?
2. Seems like alot of buffer, I use the same product and the dosage should be 1 tsp per 10-20 gallons not 1 tbs for 5 gallons.
3. Whats the tank pH, hardness and alkalinity?
4. What are your nitrates nitrites?
5. How many fish?

Just as a note I have had problems using some other brand of buffers (kent) and salt causing tank cloudiness. If I mixed my Kent buffer and Kent Cichlid salt in a bucket together in warm water then added to the tank if would be cloudy for 2 or 3 days. I have since switched to Seachem, but I never mix the buffer and salt together. Just a thought.


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## spyder-CT (Nov 16, 2004)

zugbug said:


> Few questions first.
> 1.How long has the tank been set up?
> 2. Seems like alot of buffer, I use the same product and the dosage should be 1 tsp per 10-20 gallons not 1 tbs for 5 gallons.
> 3. Whats the tank pH, hardness and alkalinity?
> ...


The tank has been an African tank for a year
It is a lot of buffer, but with water that has no KH or GH I need to add a lot to keep my pH above 8.0
pH runs around 8, GH is at 17
Nitrates are at 15ppm with 0 nitrites
an actual count is imposible because of breeding. I have:
2 pair of breeding Lamprologus Caudopunctatus that have given me a few thousand fry (no exaggeration) I've been selling them everywhere
I have a reverse trio of Julidchromis Ornatus that have also given my a few thousand fry
I have a pair of Black Calvus that have not spawned yet. They are still young
I have a wild pair of Cyprichromis leptosoma (Mpulungu) Blue Flash and 28 F1's
I have a wild group of breeding Neolamprologus Speciosis
I have a wild trio of Paracyprochromis Nigripinnis 
I have 6 F1 Xenotilapia sp. "Ochrogenys Ndole" that have yet to spawn but they are young


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## zugbug (Dec 12, 2005)

looks like a stunning group of fish.
Everything seems good.

Have you ever tried cleaning your canister filters less often?
You may get differing views here but I have had better luck (water clarity wise) with less cleaning on my canisters. And it sounds like they are pretty clean at 4 weeks...let them go 6 or 8 weeks.


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

I agree, less filter cleaning and more water changes.
You can also try less feeding and adding more fine mechanical media to your filters.


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## spyder-CT (Nov 16, 2004)

smellsfishy1 said:


> I agree, less filter cleaning and more water changes.
> You can also try less feeding and adding more fine mechanical media to your filters.


Little confused with this. Less filter cleaning but you want me to add more fine media. If I have more fine media I will need to keep up with filter mantainance otherwise the filters will lose filter rating faster. Also, if you read my original post you would have seen that I added an Eheim 2026 filled with fine filter floss in the entire filter with no effect. 
More water changes, I have a 300 gallon tank and I change 40% a week! I think my water change regime is not the problem.
Less feeding, I feed all my tanks (12) the same and this is the only one with a problem. This is one of two african tanks and this is my only problem I have so feeding amount is not a problem.

Really, I think it's a problem with the buffers. I'm going to change and add just baking soda and epson salt and see if things clear up. I'm going to bring my new fresh water on changes to a pH of 8.0 and let the substrate do the rest. I have EcoComplete sand for Cichlids. It is a buffering sand.


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## smellsfishy1 (May 29, 2008)

That is the thing, I have used buffers before and I haven't had clarity issues with the water.
I used the homemade buffer mix found in the library and not a commercial buffer as you have.
This often happens to newer tanks but yours has been up for a while so.....

Could it be the combination of the two products you are using?
Have you contacted the company customer service departments on this issue?
Maybe they have some answers for you.

Do you buffer any of the other tanks the same way as the problem tank?


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## moneygetter1 (Jan 8, 2006)

8) If you use the same buffer/salt combo (Seachem) in your other African tank w/ no problems, I would have to lean towards the possibility of filter 'over-cleaning'. Try streaching it to 6 weeks, no cleaning for your main filters. Then just clean one Pro III (lightly) concentrating mainly on rinsing the fine filter pads. Next 6 weeks do the other same way. The 2026 will take more than 3 days to show a marked improvement but it will help as will the 2222. (you'll have to clean them sooner as flow decreases). Try doing your W/C's to counter your measured nitrate rise. It's a little more time consuming at first but you'll have a much more accurate break point at which to do it & how much to remove. I'm not saying the 'generic' formula of 40% per week is bad but customizing your maintainance schedule to your specific tank needs is a bit more accurate & benificial. For eg. you might find it takes 9 or 10 days for your nitrates to rise from say 5ppm to 20ppm. (or whatever break point you choose). Sometimes nitrate rise will vary depending on feeding regimen or number of inhabitants so that 10 day increase to 20ppm last W/C could happen in 7 days. Testing will tell you when it's time. I know ..... I'm anal & OCD is a bi#@h but trust me, in the long run, the fish will benifit!! "T"


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## newday (Mar 15, 2008)

I had a similiar issue with my 220G. I have kept smalller tanks off and on over the years all African (84G, 75G and 45G) and water clearity was never an issue for me.

I setup the 220G a couple of months ago and water clearity has been an issue for me as well. I have 2 x 2028 Eheim filters running. I used Kent buffers but switched to home made carbonate and epson salts (works just fine but didn't change the clearity issue). I change 33% of water weekly and it didn't help the clearity issue.

I also get build up in my water buckets from mixing the buffers. I could see very fine particles in the water that my filters could not filter out.

I built a micron filter using 5 micron media See this thread http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... 21#1315721 and it made all the difference.

I don't think it's the buffers not disolving in the water. I would try a micron filter at least 5 micron and see hot this works. You seem to have tried adding more filters which didn't work either so finer media needs to be 5 micron or less.


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## spyder-CT (Nov 16, 2004)

Thank you for the info, I will try that. One thing I did notice this water change was the Seachem Cichlid salt. I think this is my issue. I did my water change but using epson salt and baking soda and I did not add the Cichlid salt to the prep water. I did the water change and the tank got brighter...clearer. I then took a plastic container, put a hole in the top, added the Seachem Cichlid salt into the caintainer, filled it with tank water and put it into the tank to slowly desolve. It didn't desolve, it hardened, caked up and the water in the container turned yellow. I removed it and don't know if I should try another salt or just plain old aquarium salt. 
Of Note: I have Eco-Complete sand for African Cichlids. On the bag it says that it will add calcium, magnesium plus other stuff not stated. The Seachem salt also adds these elements, could I be adding to many elements to the tank? Maybe plain aquarium salt would be better.


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## fancy diver (Mar 21, 2009)

Have you ruled out a bacteria bloom? I had a cloud problem once that drove me crazy. did water changes and added fine particle pads w/ no luck. what did work was adding seachem stability and letting the tank chill for a week. It never came back, I figured it was due to too much maintanence screwing w/ the bacteria. Im not saying thats def the problem in your tank neccessarily though.


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## spyder-CT (Nov 16, 2004)

I think I found out the reason for my problem, opinions are welcome. My wife and I were just talking and both of us could not understand why this cloudiness is happening. Then it hit me

Can you imagine this, my tank is 8' long, 2 1/2' wide and 2' tall. I have two Eheim Pro 3 filters. My great idea for filtering and circulating the tank was this:
The right filter intakes are in the right side corner, the out flow in a vertical spraybar pushing water across the back of the tank and into the left corner. For surface movement I have a powerhead at the surface pushing water the same direction.
The left filter has the intakes in the left back corner and the out flow comes down in the left FRONT corner of the tank from a vertical spraybar pushing water across the front of the tank into the right front corner. For surface movement I have a powerhead at the surface pushing water the same direction.

This theory gives excellent water movement and oxygenation and it works.

Problem, it has created a whirlpool in the center and the dirt stays in the center of the tank never reaching the filter intakes. My tank is at work so I will change this tomorrow and I bet the tank will be clear in no time.

Any thought are welcome...I hope this works.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

> change this tomorrow and I bet the tank will be clear in no time


Hope it works for you, but from past experiance, I think your chances at clear water are slim. If you look thru some pages, or search, many have been hit with the same problem..most have had fish for many years and never had this problem before..some have multiple tanks, with one being a problem..Most all the threads seem to die off with no real answer to cause/effect..I asume they just learned to live with it, it magicly cleared up, gave all their fish away and moved to the mountains of New Zealand :-? 
The only thing that worked for me was a UV unit that ran for about 48hrs. The water cleared and has stayed clear(without the UV running)since.
This problem hits with no regard to filtration types, tank sizes, buffering/water conditioners,geographical locations, experiance levels.
Could the government be putting something into the water time to time, aliens??,Muslim extremists..who knows 8)


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## spyder-CT (Nov 16, 2004)

No improvement, actually it's getting worse. I think fancy diver is right, it's an algea bloom, green water.



fancy diver said:


> Have you ruled out a bacteria bloom? I had a cloud problem once that drove me crazy. did water changes and added fine particle pads w/ no luck. what did work was adding seachem stability and letting the tank chill for a week. It never came back, I figured it was due to too much maintanence screwing w/ the bacteria. Im not saying thats def the problem in your tank neccessarily though.


When I look into the tank straight on it looks dirty but white, I looked to day from the side and it looked green. I have a UV and will put it on but the bulb burned out and I won't get a replacement till the end of next week, deliveries from my LFS comes in on Thursdays.


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## spyder-CT (Nov 16, 2004)

I added a UV to the tank 2 days ago and it cleared up totally. I wanted to thank everyone for their help.


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