# Nitrates and Ammonia keep going up.....



## LuciousLeftFoot (Jan 27, 2008)

Here are my current parameters: GH-120ppm, KH-180ppm, pH-is between 7.0 and 7.5(I know it's a little low), NO2-0ppm, NO3- between 0 and 20ppm, Ammonia-between 0 and 0.5ppm. I have a 55g tank with mbuna in it...Stock List: 5 Yellow Tail Acei, 4 Yellow Labs, 7 Maingano, 3 OB Zebras, 2 Mbamba and 2 Lab. sp. SRT. I am running an Aquaclear 110 and 3 Regent 5-15g HOB filters. I did a WC last Thursday evening, changing 15g out with some minimal gravel vacuuming after checking the parameters and noticing that my nitrates and ammonia was a little on the high side. I normally do a 10-15g WC once a week but had screwed up and was a few days late last week. I checked my parameters again today to see the nitrates and ammonia up a little bit. It's been a while since I have replaced the sponge in my AC110 b/c I have read here from some more senior members that rinsing it out with treated water will help keep the biological filtration at a more steady/higher rate. I have replaced the carbon in the AC110 within the last month or so and the Regent filters get their cartridges changed ever WC. The tank has been up and running a little under a year now with no issues until recently. In the tank I have about 40-50lbs of lace rock with the black pebble substrate. I am aware that I am on the upper threshold of overstocking but I have had this many fish in there for a while now(ie. over 3 months). Any suggestions on straightening this out would be stellar......I am sorry if I rambled but work was a killer today. Thanks

It's been a while, glad to be posting again.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I would increase the size of your water changes to about 30-40% and see if that helps the situation any. You may need to do more than one a week until you get things under control, but that's a pretty minimal water change you've been doing.

Are you cleaning your substrate well?

Overfeeding?


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## LuciousLeftFoot (Jan 27, 2008)

I have been removing all the rock and vacuuming the substrate every other WC and vacuuming around everything on the other WC's. I am going to increase my WC amount up to 30-40% and see what happens, even though I know it will help even if minor. I will also try fully cleaning the substrate every time as well.

I have been feeding them Hikari Cichlid Excel floating mini-pellets mainly and Hikari Algae wafers a couple times a week. They usually get fed twice a day(morning and evening) everything they can eat in 30-45 seconds, unless they are getting wafers and I feed them two wafers(usually the evening feeding); although they normally get fed pellets in the morning before the wafers in the evenings. So I would say that may also be a culprit in and of itself.

The interesting thing to me is they have shown no signs of stress....everyone has plenty of color with some breeding activity in the ones mature enough. I guess they don't always have to show signs for it to stress them though.......One thing to note: There were a few deaths from getting sucked into a power head that I removed a couple months back once I figured it out. I had been missing some fish and thought my biggest fish had been eating them during sleep hours. Well I couldn't find the biggest fish in the tank one evening after feeding time only to find one of his fins dangling out of the intake. I took the power head out and took it apart to find a lot of scum, scales and some fins. I cleaned the tank heavily after that, so I thought I had remedied any repercussions from all the death being sprayed into the water. Could that be a factor as well?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> Could that be a factor as well?


Good chance, yes, that the dead fish could be the source of the ammonia spikes. You'll know within the 
next few days. Other than that, just be careful when cleaning filters not to get too aggressive with the 
cleaning of the biomedia. Changing filter pads is ok as long as it's not biological filter pads. Not sure 
how your filters are configured. Sounds like you've got a handle on that though.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The presence of ammonia in the water in smaller amounts will do long term damage to the fish's internal organs, it's not something you would necessarily see immediate reactions to.

And yes, it's always important to remove dead fish immediately if at all possible. My husband never notices when we have a missing fish, but I can sit and watch the tank for a few minutes and tell you if someone isn't out and about as usual. :wink:


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## LuciousLeftFoot (Jan 27, 2008)

Well.....I had a few casualties. My 2 Lab. sp. SRT's and 1 of the OB Zebra's died a couple weeks ago from something unknown. At first they all showed signs of labored breathing and inactivity, then began sitting in one place on the substrate gasping. The Zebra went first and the SRT's went simultaneously a few days later. I cleaned the tank completely and did about a 50% WC after this happened, now I am treating the tank with Jungle Lifeguard. I am at the end of the treatment cycle today(the last of the tablets went in this afternoon) and have to wait 48 hours before I can do a WC. I am contemplating doing one tomorrow for good measure b/c the water is not nearly as clear as usual from no carbon/mechanical filtration. Water parameters: GH-120ppm, KH-180ppm, pH-8.0, NO2-0ppm, NO3-0 to 20ppm, Ammonia-0 to 0.5ppm. I am pretty sure the NO3 is up b/c of the large culture of algae growing on my rocks. The fish have been getting fed very liberally lately. I assume the ammonia is up b/c there hasn't been any mechanical filtration in the tank in a week. Should I go ahead and do a 40-50% WC tomorrow or wait until Saturday like the instructions for the Jungle product says? I am leaning toward a WC but I wanted some educated opinions before I go full steam ahead. Any thoughts on my issues otherwise would be fantastic b/c I am running out of knowledge at this point. Thanks in advance....


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## AnDyF_27 (Aug 7, 2008)

u should buy the zeo-carb bags its a mixture of carbon and ammo chips or u could do what i have and do 2 sponges and a bio-max bag promotes 30% more beneficial bacteria. also good way to get rid of nitrates or atleast detoxify them is to use seachem prime water conditioner also removes ammonia, and use aquarium salt


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## LuciousLeftFoot (Jan 27, 2008)

AnDyF_27 said:


> u should buy the zeo-carb bags its a mixture of carbon and ammo chips or u could do what i have and do 2 sponges and a bio-max bag promotes 30% more beneficial bacteria. also good way to get rid of nitrates or atleast detoxify them is to use seachem prime water conditioner also removes ammonia, and use aquarium salt


Do you have a link for the zeo-carb bags? Also do you mean that I should put two of the sponges for my AquaClear110 along with the bio material bag instead of just the sponge, bio material and carbon bag? I will add some prime this evening for sure...


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## AnDyF_27 (Aug 7, 2008)

yep just 2 sponges along with the bio-max bag, cuz ur water should always b clear after a water change

i have an AC 300(70) in my tank with 2 sponges and the bio-max bag and its always clear , *** heard of ppl just using 3 sponges, but u gotta wash the bottom sponge in the water u take out from the tank becuz it will b pretty dirty


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## AnDyF_27 (Aug 7, 2008)

i cant really send a link cuz im on a PS3, but any LFS or petsmart should have the zeo-carb bags. it basically looks like the carbon bag just with rock looking things (ammo chips) mixed in it


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## LuciousLeftFoot (Jan 27, 2008)

Ahhhh.....I actually am about to put one of the zeo-carb bags into my tank. Since dosing my tank with Jungle Lifeguard(anti-parasite tablets) I had to remove all of the mechanical filtration for it to be affective. I haven't done a water change since last week(shortly before starting the Jungle treatment) so none of the mechanical filtration has been in the tank which is making the tank cloudy. On Saturday I am able to change the water so I shouldn't have the cloudiness. Thanks for the help.


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## AnDyF_27 (Aug 7, 2008)

no problem


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## LuciousLeftFoot (Jan 27, 2008)

A bit of an update:

I had another fish come up really sick with an unknown illness. One of the last two OB Zebra's I had started swimming on its side and gasping. It had been breathing heavy off and on but for some reason when I turned the lights on this morning the zebra was almost toast. Everyone in the tank knew it was sick too, they were all chasing him into a corner. I couldn't take watching his slow demise so I culled him a couple hours after lights on.

Shortly afterwards I did a 50% WC, cleaned out my filters of the scum, completely vacuumed the whole tank and scrubbed the algae off the glass. I removed all the rocks while doing this to make sure I got as much dirtiness vacuumed as I possibly could. I also put my zeo-carb bag into my AC110 and replaced the cartridges on my two smaller HOB filters.

After it was all said and done I increased my temperature to 80-81F, while adding about 1/2 cup of sea salt diluted into some tank water. I have an urn with an air stone inside it that I had set up in such a way that it would release the occasional *blurp* air out of it; now it's set up so it is releasing constant little bubbles out to assure that I have sufficient O2 levels in the water. I checked my parameters and they are Ammonia:0ppm, NO2:0ppm, NO3:0-20ppm, pH:8.0-8.2, GH:120-180ppm, KH:180ppm.

I only have one concern left at this point and it is one of my young F1 Maingano's(about 1.5inches long). He seems to have rapid breathing, not rapid gasping like he is in pain or having issues breathing. Just always moving his mouth open and closed. I do not see it's gills opening like I have seen with the other fish that have been sick. I have a video that I took last night Here Someone please let me know what they think of his seemingly fast breathing. Otherwise he is fine though. He eats, swims around, reacts to me and the other fish just fine. The other fish I have had get sick did not do so....I am questioning whether I need to quarantine it for good measure but I am scared to b/c I know it's next to impossible to reintroduce a single fish back into a community of mbuna.

I will also add this: Throughout this whole ordeal with my tank I have had a female Acei holding a mouth full of eggs. She has had them in her mouth for about 18 days and everyday her mouth gets bigger. I have been looking in her mouth when she will let me and I can see little ones moving around in there. She is constantly shuffling her mouth around now trying to keep them from escaping, so I imagine she will spit them in the near future. I am not planning on removing her from the tank, I am going to let nature take its course b/c I don't really want to breed them nor do I have the extra tank space to do so.

I am planning on doing small partial WC's(about 25%) every 3-4 days for the next month with full on cleanings like I did today every week and a half. I am also going to be adding SeaChem Stability every other night after lights off just in case I am having an issue with the nitrifying(sp?) and denitrifying(sp?) bacteria. Are there any other suggestions anyone would make based on the things I have stated here? If you guys have anything to add please do. These fish mean so much to me and I would hate to see anything happen to anymore of them. Thanks in advance.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

IMO, the Stability is worthless. Regular tank maintenance should keep your water perfect.

Honestly, I think part of your problem may be aggression related. Your have too many species in a 55G tank, and some of your species group sizes aren't the best. (These fish are harem breeders, meaning one male should be kept to multiple females - you don't have that with the Mbamba and SRT.) In a 55G tank, I would go with 3 species max. I think if you trim it back and stock it right, you'll notice a sudden decrease in your problems.

You don't always witness aggression, but it sounds like that last OB zebra was the victim of some severe aggression. It can happen overnight like that. Aggression would also explain the heavy breathing in the maingano - his fins are clamped in the video and he appears to be trying to stay out of the way, circling in the same spot watching the other fish.


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## LuciousLeftFoot (Jan 27, 2008)

The SRT's aren't around anymore....they both died.  I am still beating myself up over their passing.

I am planning on changing it up soon anyways b/c I know this group isn't working out. I want to remove the M'bamba, remaining OB Zebra and the Acei. Leaving the 7 Maingano and 3 Yellow Labs. Then add 5 Yellow Labs and 8-10 Cyno. Sp. Hara' while redesigning my tank to better suit them all. My only problem child, so to speak is a hybrid that I purchased when I first got the tank. He is some sort of Zebra/Pseudo cross but I really don't have anywhere to take or put him........My fiance absolutely thinks he is the bees knees while I find him to be a PITA, being the lone big man in the tank. He is also who I suspect to be the cause of tension in the tank. What should I do with him? Cull or give him to the LFS as a hybrid and make sure they are aware of this?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

The hybrid shouldn't leave your hands. No matter what you tell the LFS, it's out of your control once you walk away. I would dispose of him if he's causing trouble, and if it's a male, you certainly can't trust any spawns from your other species as long as he is in the tank.

Not a fun part of the hobby, I know...


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## LuciousLeftFoot (Jan 27, 2008)

Kim....this link will let you know what happened. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... 56#1236356 Thanks for all your advice and guidance!


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