# 90 Gallon Mbuna Tank Build!



## Vadimshevchuk

I currently have a 55 gallon with 9 yellow lab cichlids and i realized that its butt ugly and i need to upgrade and go seriously on an 18" wide tank. I found a 90 gallon saltwater tank 1.5 hours away and I convinced my dad to drive and pick it up. (I'm still in high school  ) We broke down the tank and got it home with out anything cracking. I hope to keep this thread to keep track of progress and see how the tank develops. Today we have a snow-day so it's a perfect opportunity for me to use some elbow grease and clean out the 90 gallon and such.

i have a couple of questions that hopefully guys/gals can answer!

1) I am weary on the stocking plan. What would be a good stocking plan? I have this in mind so far.

7 yellow lab cichlid (2m/5fm)
7 acei cichlid (2m/5fm)
7 ?????????? something that would look nice
3 bristle nose pelcos

How does that sound? Also, should i go with a fx5 for filtration or an eheim pro 2078? Thanks in advance and hopefully you won't get bored by this  journal.









Old ugly 55


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## JimA

Just take your time and do it right. I just started up a 110 gallon and I have 4 yellow labs, 1 demasoni and will most likely get many more, 6 acei and 4 Rustys that should arrive today.

Anyway I think it will be a nice combo of color and for the most part peaceful fish with exception to the Dems.

One question who's paying? It can get spendy pretty quick. I am sure others will advise on equipment, I am running 2, penguin 250 hob's and 1 ehiem cannister 2236 I think seems to be working well.


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## ridley25

Although some will tell you one is awesome and the other one sucks, you can't go wrong with either of those canisters.

As for your stocking, 3 BN plecos is overkill. You don't need that many to keep it clean, and plecos are absolute poop factories. Having said that, if you want three, go with three.

If you're going with Labs & acei it would be nice to have a striped or barred species.

Pseudotropheus demasoni are very striking and both the males and females look the same (not the case in many of the barred species).
Labeotropheus fuelleborni or L. trewavasae would also look good - especially if you got some "marmalade cats," which have a blotched pattern.

Have a look at this African cichlid Gallery and see if anything catches your fancy - then ask about your suggestions.

kevin


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## The Novice

My grand-daughter and I started a tank in November. We started with 6 Labs (1 now holding) and added 6 Iodotropeus spenglerae. The "Rustys" are peaceful, friendly, and stay out front. Great fish. Friday we're adding 1/2 a dozen Socolofi for some blue. I highly recommend the Rustys, peaceful, active, and so far, very non-agressive (still, barely, juveniles).


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## Vadimshevchuk

*JimA* One question who's paying?

Well i am paying for some of it and dads also helping out too. I have a planted tank with pressurized co2 so that tank takes up money to... Im selling an eheim 2213 and eheim 2215 and a magnum 350 to get money for an fx5 or an eheim pro 2078. I am going with a 3D background and UGJ. I have two magnum 5 pumps and 3 powerheads to use in the new tank. :thumb: Still cleaning hard


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## The Novice

I have two 4" plecos in my 125 (12 Mbuna, all herbivores). I feed a fresh lettuce leaf (romaine or redleaf) every day, and what the Mbuna don't eat during the day, the plecos clean off at night. And the have [almost) as much personality as the Mbuna!


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## Vadimshevchuk

I chose three pelcos because 21 fish total isnt that much for a 90 gallon and three pelcos gives me a chance of having a male and female. I hope to get this tank done by spring time and after i sell my 55 gallon. I decided the lighting will be 2x 54 T5HO with 1 Giesemann PowerChrome Aquablue and the other bulb is gonna be either atinic or midday giesemann bulb powered by an ice cap 660 ballast. Right now i am removing the overflow and it sucks! O well, can't wait to start making my own 3D background in the coming month!


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## Dauthi

Huh, I'd have left the overflow. You could have set it up "Herbie" style, got a cheap 20g long for a sump, and a ~900gph pump for way less than the cost of either of those canisters.

Would have allowed you to hide all the heaters and such and be almost totally silent with great flow.

What are you going to do to plug the holes?


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## Vadimshevchuk

Well i didn't take out the overflow yet because we ran out of razor blades. Can you please give me a link to "Herbie" style? I already have a mag 5 pump and a sump like this [http://www.thatpetplace.com/images/presentation/241432.jpg]

Still looking for advice on the third fish group in the tank. So far its 7 yellow labs and 7 acei.


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## Dauthi

No problem: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... p?t=344892

Basically you should have 2 bulkheads in the bottom of the overflow. One (larger) is meant for out flow and the other for return. In a "herbie" overflow, named after the guy who came up with it, you use both as outflow to the sump. Returns go over the side like with a canister.

The larger one you set up as a regular open standpipe. This is your backup pipe and has only a tiny bit of flow under optimal conditions. You set it's height at about the max water level you want in the overflow box.

The smaller one is your main out flow. It's height is set at the minimum water level you want in the overflow box. It runs full siphon unless the water level drops. There isn't any air mixing so it's very quiet. The trick is to use a valve on this pipe to match the flow of your return pump from the sump. I adjust mine so that just a trickle is going into the open pipe. it's a bit of fiddling at first to get the flow just right. A gate valve as opposed to a ball valve makes adjusting easier, but either will work.

With the sump you linked it should work awesome and get all the peripherals out of the display tank. You will probably need more pump than the mag 5 for a 90, but it should work ok to start. I have a mag 9.5 throttled down a bit with mine.

Hope that gets you started!


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## Dauthi

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/brs ... ing-videos

really explains it well, and they sell the plumbing parts such as gate valves.

And to correct myself, upon rereading the thread I switched the recommended jobs for the holes. It seems like they use the 3/4" bulkhead as the backup and the 1" as the full siphon. I don't have to choose myself as I drilled my tank and put 1" bulkheads on both.


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## cantrell00

Dauthi...

First of all - thanks for the link...

Secondly, 1 - 3/4" & 1 - 1" would make sense because that is what is typically inside of an overflow, with the 3/4" being the return...

I am going to try their method on my next tank,,, I can't stand the gurgling on mine & I can see how that using a gate valve to synchronize the return & the drain would remove the noise caused by air in the line...

I assume it works well on yours?


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## Dauthi

It's working quite well. I had originally drilled my 90 for this setup and I liked it so much I drilled a 40 long and set it up the same way.

I have a ball valve on the 90 and it is fiddly but you eventually get the balance. When I did the 40 I went for the gate valve and things went much smoother. The ball valve seems to overshoot on adjustments because the force required to get the ball started moving ends up moving it too much. What I ended up doing was fashion a lever so I could apply the same force but with much more control and viola!

The loudest thing on my 90 right now is one of the timers for the lights, the overflow is that quiet.


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## Vadimshevchuk

Thank you for the link. I am seriously starting to think about going with a sump since i could save a couple hundred dollars and get an aquaterra 3D background instead. I also think I ccould get away with the mag 5 because i will use another mag 5 on the UGJ system so i should have decent water movement. Maybe I will even add a powerhead to get even more movement.


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## Vadimshevchuk

Since I live in my parents house, i want to keep electrical consumption to a minimum where possible. If i go with a sump, a mag 5 will be 45 watts and a mag 9.5 will need 90 watts to run! While an FX5 will take 50 watts and an eheim pro 2078 will take 30 watts. :roll: what to do? Dauthi- thanks for all your help, maybe in the future you can stop by and check out this set up and critique it :lol: since your only 40 minutes away.


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## Dauthi

Ahhh, you have two mag 5's!

What you could do is use both in the sump for returns (if they fit) Have one return normally for upper layer water circulation and the 2nd can feed the UGJ from the sump. If you used 1/2" cpvc for the UGJ you could paint the exposed pipe black and run it right up the edge of the overflow box making it almost invisible. Between the two mag 5's you'd have plenty of flow going on so additional power heads are unneeded. Having the UGJ blowing fresh water outa the sump is actually really interesting. I might have to try something like that.

That should help your power consumption concerns as well. The 2 mag 5's would be 90 watts Vs. canister + mag5 ugj + power heads ?? watts. I'd imagine the difference would be nominal if not in favor of the 2 mags.

Please don't feel like I'm pressuring you either. You should go with whatever you feel is best. I just like tinkering and planning out things and my Wife won't let me have enough tanks to obcess about :roll:  :lol:


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## Vadimshevchuk

o your not pressuring me. Your helping me a lot. I just never ran a sump before and i have been running canister filters for 3 years and i dont have to worry about sump overflowing and stuff like that. I just need to understand the herbie concept and all that stuff you mentioned before. I want to make this perfect and i need to be patient and do it right the first time. I did other tanks before and i already learned those hard lessons in life.


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## Dauthi

The trick with sumps is pre planning everything.

To prevent overflowing the sump you do two things:

1. anti siphon holes on all your returns

2. The level of your overflows. You want to set the main overflow so that even if the tank drained down till the overflow was at water level (ie power outage, pumps off) the sump isn't overflowing. Power off is like the most important test of a new overflow set up!

To prevent overflowing the tank is more about redundancy. The herbie style setups have that built in which is nice. So as long as you have some sort of screen trap on both overflows it is highly unlikely that you'd ever get a complete blockage. Then to add a backup to that you use a baffle or some sort of other container to house the return pumps in. Assuming flow stops from the tank the pumps should only have access to a couple of gallons of water before they suck air. Or if you like a more technical approach you could make up a float switch that turns the pumps off if the water level drops too much in the sump or gets too high in the tank. I favor the simple approach because it is more fail safe in my opinion but I guess you could hurt your pump if it ran dry for a long time too.

There are other options but those are the main ideas to prevent large water spills.


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## Vadimshevchuk

Thanks Dauthi. :thumb: On the other note, i think i got my third species of fish!

Cynotilapia Hai Reef? What are you thoughts on mixing these with 7 yellow lab cichlids and 7 acei?


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## Vadimshevchuk

Still in the stages of planning. I have to figure out how to work a sump using "herbie" style and how to use a 3D background with a overflow in the way. I also decided to use a oddysea 4' 2x54W light[/url]http://www.aquatraders.com/Odyssea-48in-2x54W-T5-HO-Light-Fixture-p/52123.htm
I also found some nice acei that a...to come together! Please comment or critique!


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## Frazee86

the 90 watt mag 9.5 should cost about 10$ month to run if i did math right or in your case the two mag 5's should cost the same :thumb:


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## Vadimshevchuk

Good point on that. I think I should have enough flow with one mag 5 and a hydor powerhead 750. I want the water going out of the sump going straight to my UGJ and the hydor will be use to get surface arrogation. I will sell the other mag 5 to pay for my 8 acei that im getting :wink:


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## Dragonetti

On the herbie you can put your main in the top of the sump like normal and the emergency into sump area where your pump will sit. Be sure to use a gate valve and not a ball, it is worth the extra money. No valve needed on the emergency. I don't even have an emergency on my reef tank but I am sure I will come home one day with salt water all in the living room


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## Dragonetti

Couple more things to think about. That tidetool2 will not handle the flow that two mag5's will put through it. The biggest pump I could run it with was a mag7. That being said, your system will be very quite with one mag5 and a dorso standpipe, the herbie would just take up an extra hole in your tank.


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## Vadimshevchuk

Thanks *Dragonetti* for the reply. I will use only one mag 5 to feed the water from the sump straight to the UGJ. I will have to come up with a way to avoid a siphon because if electricity go out then all the water will empty through the jets and into the sump. Is there any way i can avoid 90 gallons of water on the floor?

Here is a bad dirty pic of the two pipes in the overflow.....


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## Dragonetti

Yes there are a couple of ways to not empty your tank on the floor. One, keep your return sprays close to the surface so when the power goes out it will only empty the tank to that height. The best way to not limit how high you keep your spray nozzles is to drill a small hole in your return line just below the water surface. Power goes out and the siphon is broken right when the hole you drilled hits air. You want that hole to be as small as possible so you don't lose any flow through it but it can't be too small or it will not brake siphon. Start small, test, make bigger if needed, test again until you get it working.


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## justincgdick

In order to prevent the back syphon you put a small hole in the output just below or at the water level once it enters the tank. That way it will back syphon very little before it sucks air and breaks the syphon.a bit of water will come out of the hole under normal operation but out of a 1/4" hole its not much. It could possibly even suck do to the venturi effect.

That is when water rushing by a small hole sucks water into the stream rather than water being pushed out.

Just to hopefully help clarify the herbie, I think I can paint you a picture. One drain pipe would be at the max water level you want inside the overflow. The other would be at the minimum. Probably around 10" or so lower. The lower drain would have the gate valve inline. You adjust the gate valve so the the lower drain is fully submerged and full of water, not sucking and air at all. The water level is usually kept so that a trickle of water is seeping over the backup/ higher level drain. The trickle is small to prevent air sucking, keeping it quiet as well. Getting the pump volume and the lower drain volume exctly the same is nearly impossible, but you can get it very, very close and the trickle keeps everything perfectly balanced. The herbie is pretty dead quiet and nearly flawless. Because your overflow would be close to the main tanks water level there is little noise from the overflow and no sucking from the pipes so no gurgle.


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## Vadimshevchuk

I tested both mag 5 pumps today and they sound like a lawn mower. i took them apart and cleaned the impellers and its still noisy. I tested them by submerging the whole pump in a 5 gallon bucket filled with water. I will have to look into replacing the impeller or running one for 24 hours and seeing if the noise goes away. since i got the sump thing down i will need to figure out what should i use for media? I have four trays that are narrow for media. Total space of media is 177 cubic inches according to the manual. what would be a cheap alternative for media?

Also i want to get into the discussion of a 3D background. Here is a tank that inspired me to into think about getting a cichlid show tank.
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx21 ... 13-10a.jpg
I want to use the same sand (eco complete Cichlid) but i don't know if i can pay 250 dollars for a background and it will take up a lot of depth away from the tank. I wan a background that won't take up more then 5" of depth and the color of it has to go along with lace rock and eco complete cichlid sand.

Im thinking of building a background like this since it looks not to hard to build, but still looks awesome!

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll85 ... C03104.jpg


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## Vadimshevchuk

Long time no update but.... We still have 2 inches of snow outside in NY so i cant take the tank outside to rinse of all the extra sand and salt on the bottom glass. I decided not to go with a 3D background because it's to much work plus i found a video on youtube of a tank that looks similar to livestock that i am planning and it looks great. I am also looking for a 40B to build my own sump because the tide pool can only hold 10 gallons of water and that's really small IMO so those are my plans. I hope in the next to weeks to paint the inside of tank stand/canopy using kiltz paint and remove the painted background and repaint it black. I will purchase egg crate today to cut it out and place it on the bottom before the sand. i am still deciding on weather to go with the classic sugar white sand or use caribesea eco complete sand. Please right your suggestions on sand choice or removing the painted background.

Here is a video of the tank that mine will hopefully end up looking!






i will just have the ngara version of acei and no dems :thumb:


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## jchild40

=D>


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## Vadimshevchuk

Wow.... it's been a long time since i updated this journal so i guess today would be a great day to update 8) . Well the last two weeks we finally hit 60's in NY so i took the tank out of the house to give it a good rinse with the hose and i scraped of the ugly blue background and painted it black using krylon fusion spray paint. I wish i could have gotten pictures but our camera was borrowed for a trip so all i have is pictures of the finished product. I also used 4 coats of white kiltz primer and i painted the inside of the stand/canopy. 
















I also mentioned that i wanted to get this tank done but spring but it will be probably won't be done until july. The reason for this is because i am debating on building my own DIY LED fixture so i get the electrical savings and of course the shimmer effect! I will also probably end up ditching the sump and turn a 40B into a sump with a fry holding section built in. I also decided against a 3D background because it will be hard to match the background to lace rocks. I will ditch the eco complete cichlid sand and i will just go with plain white. To end my long ramble i am also researching Deep blue pump 1050 to replace my mag 5. The mag wont have enough flow for my liking and the deep blue pump will push 1050 gph at 40w. i just have to find out if these things are reliable and quiet.


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## Valous

tank cleaned up very nice. keep up the work and do it at your own pace. As I have found if you rush it, you are never happy with it.


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## Vadimshevchuk

I completely agree with you. i rather do it right in the first place then mess up and try changing stuff when you have 20 fish swimming in the tank.


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## Vadimshevchuk

Long time no update, but school is done so i hope to get water in the tank by august if not sooner. I decided on a sump design using a 29 gallon that i got for free :thumb: . I'm still deciding on a pump, but i think i will go with a quiet one 3000 and use it external. Lighting will be LED, but im not sure if im gonna go with 2 par 38 bulbs that are dimmable or just build a 40x1 watt led light. I think the lighting won't be done until fall and ill have the tank running with 100% stocked by September :thumb: This should be the final plan for the sum unless you guys convince me other wise or the glass estimate from the cutter will be through the roof. Im gonna use 1/4 glass on baffles and sections and that sounds reasonable. Please give me your positive and negative thoughts while i go make a side view of the sump!


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## cantrell00

Do you have room to slide a 10 gallon beside the 29?


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## Vadimshevchuk

No i dont..... I know it probably would be better to have a growout tank outside the main system and i probably can fit a 15 gallon tall next to the 29 for fry/quarantine and use the holding section in the sump as a refigum to remove nitrates.


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## cantrell00

Yeah.. Was thinking that you could tie in a 10 gallon to the return loop & connect the 10 to the 29 with bulkheads & PVC.

That way one would spill over to the other...


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## Vadimshevchuk

Well i decided to start the sump now so i can get the tank running in two weeks after i get the pump and get the tank drilled and plumbed. I decided to go with a quiet one 3000 as my return pump. I ordered three pieces of glass for the sump for 40 bucks without the bubble trap because ill see if i get air bubbles and if there are a ton, then ill just order glass for the bubble trap. I learned quite a few lessons today on sump building!

1) Never buy this silicone again unless it comes in those tubes that you use in a gun. The bottom broke on both of the 3 oz tubes that i used so i lost alot of silicone that i still could have used.. Next time im gonna get GE 1 to finish off the rest of the sump!








2) wear gloves because once you get it on your hands it sucks :roll:

3) take of the tape before the silicone starts to dry because it will pull of the seam

Here is the plan im gonna use for the sump










All i did today was silicone the glass that will hold the bio balls... Here is a seam on how i did it









i also caught all the yellow lab cichlids in the 55 gallon ( 9 in total) and i sexed them. I ended up with 5 males and 4 females so i took the two worse looking males in for store credit and now i have 3 males and 4 females. I will look on aquabid for the auctions of like 3 2" yellow labs so that i can get rid on one extra male and get 2 male/ 5 females! Another issue i am having with this tank is finding 100 Lbs of lace rock. it seems like no nurserys carry it in my area =(


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