# Fish being bullied to death



## Urbanlamb (Aug 9, 2013)

My fish are systematically being bullied to death, one by one...I think.
55 gallon
good water parameters
plenty of hiding places
Yellow labs (7)
Demasoni (6)

About 6 weeks ago I noticed one of my demasoni always huddling near the top of the water, and being chased by my large dominant yellow lab. When I looked closer, I noticed a sore on his flank and his tail was rather tattered looking. After a week of observation, he didn't improve and in fact, the tail was pretty much gone. I decided it was tail rot started by an injury (scraping against a rock? Other fish biting?).
I got some antibiotics and dosed the tank as per instructions.
Little fella seemed to perk up, then shortly after I came home and he was pretty much dead.

Now 2 weeks later, it's starting again with another demasoni...huddling near the top...pale color, but no visible injury and that darn tail looking a little tattered.

What's going on do you think? I'm stumped. I've had unbelievable luck with my tank and it's had a charmed life since i first started it three years ago. It even survived a move perfectly. I'm scratching my head here and don't want to lose another demasoni, they're cute little fellas.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Demasoni are the extra work mbuna and not always the best choice if you want to buy fish and enjoy a relatively effortless tank.

Because of their aggression, I would never keep less than a group of 12. I did not believe this as a beginner and went with a group of 9. I had the same experience you are having.

Extra males need to be rehomed. They are usually the ones forced to the top. Keep rehoming them until peace is attained. This may happen when you end up with 3m:9f in the tank but you have to have at least the 9 females.

Now you may have bloat in the tank...if the hiding/tail damage is allowed to continue the fish get sick. Once that happens even if the aggression is gone the tank can be wiped out.

First...is any fish not eating every day? Any thready clear or white feces? If yes treat the tank with metronidazole. Antibiotics will not work for bloat.

Once your tank is well, decide if you want to keep demasoni. If yes buy a hospital tank. As extra males are driven to the top, put them in the hospital and rehome when possible. Also add at least a dozen demasoni. You are hoping you have 3 existing females and get 6 out of the new dozen. You may have as many as 8 extra males to rehome so you will need the extra tank and and an outlet for the extra males.


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## Urbanlamb (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks!

What you say about the behavior of the demasoni makes sense. I really don't know which are males and which are females.
There are no signs of bloat, everyone else happy and eating, but I HAVE noticed the demasoni are very active (circling each other and mouth fighting) and the activity has been increasing this past 6 months or so.
Hmmm...I've had all of these fish since they were fry. I swapped an old tank for them, sweet deal.

I have a really good relationship with my fish supply store, and need to do some thinking.
Looks like my options are...
1) Keep taking out the bullied, smaller males and re-home/replace them with females. 
2) Get rid of all demasoni and replace with another kind of fish (breaks my heart because they are beautiful)
3) Buy more demasoni to increase their population

I've got a few questions
1)Is there an easy way to sex them? If I get more, the fish supply store only has juveniles, all my babies are honkin' big 'uns (three year olds full of sass). Would it be wise to introduce smaller ones?
2) What would be a good breed to replace them with, that will get along well with big fat gorgeous yellow labs with attitude. :dancing: 
3) 55 gallon tank with 7 labs currently, how many demasoni can I safely fit? I have a Fluval 306 cannister as well as a hang on the back filter type thingy. (Yes, I'm obsessed with optimal filtration)

Thanks for your time, I really appreciate it!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Your options are 1+3 or 2. Doing just 1 or just 3 will not work IME. Given your description I'd attribute any deaths to bloat so keep monitoring for symptoms.


> 1)Is there an easy way to sex them?


No. I just wait until the group drives them to the top.


> If I get more, the fish supply store only has juveniles, all my babies are honkin' big 'uns (three year olds full of sass). Would it be wise to introduce smaller ones?


Yes, just add all the new ones at once...at least 5 fish, but you want to add 12 anyway so do all 12 at once.


> 2) What would be a good breed to replace them with, that will get along well with big fat gorgeous yellow labs


 I like socolofi and rusties are popular. 


> 3) 55 gallon tank with 7 labs currently, how many demasoni can I safely fit?


12 will work fine (after removing extra males...before that any number of juveniles you need to get the right # of females).


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