# Apistogramma Ortmanni



## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

I managed to pick up a group of five of these on Friday and am wondering if I actually have Ortmanni, can anyone confirm or deny by the photos that follow?

male









female









Please tell me what you think and why. . .

Thanks in advance,

Ray


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *RayQ*,

Mate try Apistogramma Forums.

Very nice looking male in the first pic.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Am guessing steindachneri instead of ortmanni ... supposedly ortmanni has a full length stripe over the caudal area instead of just a spot. Am sure DCguy will pop on though with a better idea, apistos deffinately aren't my strong point.


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## edburress (Jun 9, 2007)

If you're the scientific type, you can read Kullanders descriptions of A. ortmanni and A. steindachneri, page 84 and 74 respectively. Unfortunately they don't have images of the Holotypes.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZT...=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA84,M1

Ed


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## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks everyone for the help :thumb: I took the time to read Ed, thanks for that, seems the "smoking gun" here is the presence of the lateral spot above the lateral line, A. Steindachneri has it and A. Ortmanni does not. Seems that the case is cracked :lol: Anyone have any experience with these little fellows? maybe some pics?

Ray


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## DCguy (Mar 9, 2008)

Ray,

I am quite sure that your fish is A. steindachneri. It is definitely not A. ortmanni which is a species that might have never been introduced into the American Hobby. However, it is very common for A. steindachneri to be labeled as ortmanni. The reason I say I am almost sure is that there is a very similar species, A. rupununi which looks very similar. The main differences are that rupununi has a rounder to squared off tail with the horizontal striping extending to the edges of the fin and the flank patch is found above the lateral line. On your fish the flank patch appears to be higher than the lateral line but the tail is definitely that of a steindachneri. In the wild there is a lot of variation in these fish and I would go with A. steindachneri.

This is a fairly undemanding species but it does get larger than many Apistos. They make good community fish and the males can grow into impressive specimens reaching nearly 4". I have written a bit about them at http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramm ... chneri.php

You have a great looking pair and they should give you a lot of enjoyment.

DC


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## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks DC - I thought that the Ortmanii weren't supposed to have the lateral spot at all, at least that is what I understood from the link provided by Ed. Anyhow - I do believe that I shall refer to them as Steindachneri now.

Ray


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## DCguy (Mar 9, 2008)

RayQ said:


> I thought that the Ortmanii weren't supposed to have the lateral spot at all, at least that is what I understood from the link provided by Ed.


That is completely correct. Note that the species I am comparing to is A. rupununi not A. ortmanni.

A. ortmani is a very rare species in the hobby and has possibly never been introduced to the American hobby. It is a regani group fish that is very drab in appearance. The problem began from the very first when specimins of A. steindachneri were misidentified. This lead to the publication of articles and photos that labeled A. ortmanni as steindachneri for many years. As you have experienced, many steindachneri are sold as ortmanni today. The true ortmanni does not have a flank spot of any sort.

There are three known species that exhibit a similar flank patch to yours. Steindachneri and rupununi that we have already discussed and A. hippolytae a species with a round tail and a flank spot that touches the dorsal. All are closely related.

Enjoy your fish!

DC


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## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks again for the clarification :thumb:

Ray


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## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

Here are a couple more shots of each. . .



















Please feel free to comment.

Ray


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## NorthShore (Feb 3, 2006)

Great pics, Ray! :thumb:


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## Josh_McFadden (Jul 5, 2004)

Nice snaps buddy.


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## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks Gents :thumb:


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## Josh_McFadden (Jul 5, 2004)

What size tank do you have the little pests in? Looks like a great home from the pictures.


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## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

They are in a 15 gal at the moment. You gonna get some to go with the Discus? :wink: I would suggest the other ones in the shop - they are fancier finned and won't likely get as big and obnoxious - maybe that's a good thing in a 180 though.


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