# New tank help



## nikielyn (Jan 18, 2010)

So my husband and I have decided we would like to have an African Cichlid tank. We had a 20 gallon for a few years (community tank), but have always love Cichlids. So we recently purchased a 72 gallon bow front (a big upgrade for us  ) and have set the tank up and started cycling it but have not added any fish yet. We are looking for some feedback regarding what species would work best for us to introduce into the tank first, and if it is ok to have a pleco, cory or loach in the tank as well.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

Well, I'm glad you upgraded, because that is a much nicer size for African cichlids!

I think your first step should be reading about the differences between Lake Malawi and Lake Tanganyikan cichlids and deciding whether you are looking for a tank full of colorful, mildly to extremely aggressive fish or a tank full of diverse fish with interesting behaviors. That is an extreme generalization of the difference between a Malawi and Tanganyikan community.

Here is a page with articles on African cichlids, if you are less familiar with them.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/introduction_list.php

This page lists some options for stocking a 75-gallon tank with cichlids from various regions/biotopes. Think of them as suggestions and click on the fish to see if there are any you like in particular. I recommend avoiding any that are highly aggressive.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_75g.php

There are many options, so to best help you, you should probably look around at the various "types" of African cichlids to see if there are any "must-haves" and we can then build on that. 
Check out the profiles for Malawi mbuna, peacocks, and haplochromines here:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/?region=M
Mbuna are usually considered some of the most aggressive of the Africans and mix best with others of their kind. Peacocks are amazingly colored and fairly mellow, and "haps" include a variety of shapes and personalities, including more fish-eating species. A mix of species from any of these groups is very nice.

Tankanyikan cichlids are more differentiated in terms of the niches that they are adapted to and their unique shapes and behaviors. There are rock-dwellers, open-water species, sand-dwellers, species that raise their fry in shells, goby cichlids, eels, and more. Many are small enough and territorial enough that they exhibit fairly natural behavior in a tank, which I find very appealing about them. Some have more subdued coloration, but others very striking. Their profiles are found here:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/?region=T

With some African cichlid communities, you will want to add the fish all at one time to prevent inhabitants from killing new members. Will you be getting fish locally or ordering online (local fish stores are often limited to something called "mixed African cichlids" and many of these species are poorly bred, hybrids, and include some of the most aggressive species, certain to be a problem in any community).

Is your tank a 4-foot long one? The "footprint" (length and width) of tanks can be helpful for determining what species may work best, and which will be too large or need more substrate space. Have you tested your tap water pH and hardness?

I hope this helps a bit. Plecos and loaches can both be used in Malawi communities, but corys will be too small and prefer softer water. Some of the Tanganyikan cichlids probably do better with a bristlenose pleco or one of the native smaller catfish _Synodontis petricola_.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

*scrubjay*









That is an awesome answer....


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## nikielyn (Jan 18, 2010)

Thank you for the very informative response .

I've been looking at the links you listed and think we both prefer the Malawi Cichlids, some of the ones we particularly liked are Cynotilaphia afra, Iodotropheus Sprengerae, and Metriaclima Estherae. Our tank is 4 foot long, and the water PH out of the tap is 7.4 do you think that would be a good fit (I'm going to assume that we might have to bring the PH up slightly)?

We will more than likely be purchasing the fish (at least the majority of them) from our LFS, we are lucky enough to live in an area with several fairly large stores that carry a good selection of fish. If you can recommend some things to look for when picking out the fish that would be much appreciated.

Also I have heard some different opinions regarding adding salt in to the tank, is this something that is necessary or just recommended? 
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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

In terms of pH, your tap water is at the low end of their range, so it might be okay. It's more important to keep it stable, so it's best if you don't have to use additives to change it. Hardness is important too. If you want to raise pH and hardness, here is a recipe:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php

Here are two great articles on setting up a tank for Malawis and water chemistry issues.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/lake_malawi_setup.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/water_chemistry.php

I'm not sure what type of filter you will be using, but often people use aragonite sand as substrate or in a canister filter to raise the pH and buffer it so it will be stable. "Your results may vary"

Nope, you don't need to add salt--good link borrowed from Prov356: http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml

The only thing I would worry about with your mix would be the small and peaceful "rusties" getting bullied by the others. They would be best with species like yellow labs, which are similarly mild in nature.

Most aggression is intraspecific, so most mbuna are kept as one male per species and 2-5 females. You could have 3-4 species, up to about 20 fish total according to the 75-gallon cookie cutter.

Some others you might consider (I tried to pick those that might be more common in a fish store that carries Malawi cichlids):
Metriaclima sp. 'Msobo' or "Msobo Deep" both male and female are brightly colored
Pseudotropheus saulosi (similar to Msobo above)
Labidochromis sp. 'Perlmutt'
Metriaclima greshakei "Ice Blue"
Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos "Maingano"
Cynotilapia sp. 'Hara'

Anyone feel free to correct me on these suggestions on numbers and species! 
Maybe someone else will have other suggestions based on their experience, as long as the fish have matured enough to determine compatibility.

Seems like you already realize you should avoid putting species of the same genus or coloration in there, to avoid hybridization and aggression.

*Avoid:*
"Kenyi" Metriaclima lombardoi
"auratus" Melanochromis auratus
"bumblebee" "hornet" Pseudotropheus crabro
"Johanni" Melanochromis johannii

Be WARY of fish store advice, unless they warn you away from various combinations. Many people have come home with fish that are entirely inappropriate to house together because of "advice." :? Your stores may be more sophisticated that that, hopefully. If you are unsure about combinations, you can always take notes on what stores have and come back here to ask first. 8)


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## nikielyn (Jan 18, 2010)

Thanks  We are also in between doing a mixed or all male tank- leaning towards all male tank since we can have a larger variety of fish, and don't have to worry about any fry. Is it harder to have an all male tank, also do you suggest having less fish in the tank if we go with this option?


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

I would definitely try to discourage you from trying the all-male mbuna tank. They are very difficult to pull off and you will be dealing with aggression almost the entire time. You would need an extra tank to put troublesome fish in, and a fish store to return them to. People have more success with all-male peacock or hap tanks because they are less aggressive. You could do this with a 75-gallon, but these are larger fish, so you would have fewer fish. All-male tanks are often stressful to even watch, as they will always be chasing each other, bullying the weaker males, etc. :?

If you want lots of color, you can choose species that have colorful females as well as males. You just want to avoid any two species that look alike. E.g., if you have a blue-barred species, no other blue-barred are okay, but horizontally striped species are okay. If you choose a species with blue males and orange females, no other orange species. This is to prevent aggression as well as hybridization. Nobody wants hybrid cichlids in the hobby. If you don't want to deal with fry, let the females spit the fry into the tank and the other fish will eat them; or get some Synodontis multipunctatus catfish and they will do that for you too.

Here are some species that have colorful females. I would choose only four species, with five of each, 1 male to 2-5 females, for a total of 20 fish, plus perhaps a group of Synodontis or a bristlenose plec.
Metriaclima callaino (males and females blue, no stripes)
Metriaclima sp. "MsoboÃ¢â‚¬Â


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## Ahab (Jan 20, 2010)

Wow that was all ridiculously great info and advice!!!!!
And it makes me wonder how all my fish are getting along!!!!


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

Do you have an all-male tank?
or Malawi community?
I'd love to hear any working combinations.


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

oh yeah, you're the one waiting for his crabro to grow up, lol :wink:


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## Ahab (Jan 20, 2010)

I just posted my tank but I don't think it's up yet!
I'm not sure the sex of most but I do believe most are male! 
Here's the list....

1 demasoni
1 yellow lab
1 red zebra
1 cobalt blue zebra (i think)
1 auratus
1 chipokae
1 bumble bee
1 convict
1 peacock (not sure what kind)
3 daffodil
1 blue phantom pleco
1 zebra stingray pleco
1 reg pleco
1 spotted raphael
yes there is some aggression. The red zebra is the largest adult male and runs it but they all finally get along. It's awesome to watch them school together!!! Well when they eat anyway!!!
55g bowfront


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

nikielyn said:


> Thanks  We are also in between doing a mixed or all male tank- leaning towards all male tank since we can have a larger variety of fish, and don't have to worry about any fry. Is it harder to have an all male tank, also do you suggest having less fish in the tank if we go with this option?


To address the hap/peacockall-male option - it is not nearly as aggressive as a 'normal' mixed mbuna tank, IMO and my experience. Unless - one of the males goes off - and if one does - he needs a new home. So if you 'overstock' by a couple of young males you won't hurt anything.

Buy them old enough to sex but not any older if possible, sub-adult males is where you ideally would start - I can send a link if you want. Adult males _can_ be problematic, sub-adults are a better choice.

The only caveat - if you do an all male tank - have at least a 10 gallon timeout (rehome) tank available at all times. If a male decides to be hyper-aggressive - he needs removed - now.

If it were me...

I'd find 8-10 males and add 3-4 Synodontis multipunctatus.

If you picked from Peacocks like:

Aulonocara "German Red"
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Chiloelo)
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ngara)
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Usisya)

And Haps (Note peacocks are actually haps - just like terriers are dogs):

Copadichromis azureus
Copadichromis melas
Otopharynx lithobates (Zimbawe)
Placidochromis electra (pictures do not do them justice)
Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" (Taiwan Reef)
Tramitichromis sp. "Intermedius"(green tints in a hap - if you can find a Lethrinops male, get him!)

You could also use a male yellow Lab and/or a Male Ps. Acei as two of your males.

You would have a beautiful tank with a very reasonable chance of success. But again - have a 10 handy just in case someone goes off - with all male it is always a possibility.

Note - I picked calmer species, so no Aulonocara jacobfreibergi or Sciaenochromis fryeri (Also called S. ahli incorrectly) and no larger haps 9-16in those would need a larger tank than what you have..

I have personally moved that way and my wife has commented that the 90 all-male/peacock is the healthiest tank ever (I've been doing this from the late 80's) - rarely a torn fin.

Good Luck.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Scrubjay. Very informative and well written. Did you copy and save for all the newbies?? You should...lol =D> =D> =D>


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## scrubjay (Oct 25, 2009)

Floridagirl said:


> Scrubjay. Very informative and well written. Did you copy and save for all the newbies?? You should...lol =D> =D> =D>


Lol, I thought about that too, so I did! :lol:


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## nikielyn (Jan 18, 2010)

Thanks for all the input! I think we are leaning towards the all male peacock/hap tank. My husband is getting a little antsy so I think we may start adding soon, I have had fish on the brain 24/7 for the past few weeks and it will be nice to finally have some activity in the tank. :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## siegfthom (Apr 5, 2009)

Great posts. Thank you for the fantastic advice for cichlid lovers. :thumb:

IMO, I've had a mbuna 75 gallon tank - with one hap for good measure (Venustus - great color/one of my favs - I'm pretty sure it's a female since there's not much green in her face, but the yellows and browns are remarkable).

I did have an issue with some hybrization (cyno afra with a red zebra), but also had some labidochromis hongi (not 100% on this species name) that raised at least 3 spawns with little problems...

Go to some local fish club meetings, read this forum, and don't be afraid to trade out some fish that may cause problems. A lot of this art is trial and error.

I would suggest plenty of slate rock stacking and some PVC T's or elbows thrown in to reduce aggression and help with buffering (I've got some lace and holy rock in their too).

Thanks again for some great info.


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