# pretty cichlid ideas for tank??



## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

any ideas of pretty cichlids for my new 55g?


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

Did you check out the cookie cutter setups?
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_55g.php


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

yeah.
jus lookin for ideas of certain fish types. was looking at red terrors, eureka's, electric blues, peacock bass, ram, discus, firemouth, tapajos orange head and DEFINATLY Cockatoo Dwarf Lol.
not i do have 2 tanks 1 for africans and 1 for south american haha


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I have no idea about the African cichlids, so I'll leave them alone. As for the SA cichlids, well;

Red Terrors and Peacock Bass are definate no no's for a 55 gallon, other than it being a temporary grow tank untill they hit the 8 inch mark, at which time they'll need to be moved to a 6 foot, or larger,[/url] tank.

Discuss and German Blue rams can be kept together. They do require higher temperatures than many other SA cichlids and are regarded as high maintenance cichlids. I would suggest some serious research before keeping these cichlids.

I have kept Geophagus sp. araguaia "orange head's", an almost identical species to G. sp. tapajos "orange head", successfully with Apistogramma agassizii in the past.

As you have a 55 gallon tank, I would recommend two pairs of Tapajos and one pair of Apistogramma. I wouldn't suggest any other cichlids to be added, as I don't believe a 55 gallon offers enough territories for any more pairs. However you can still add plenty of colour by way of tetras and other dither fish. Also there are some interesting looking catfish, a species like royal whip tail catfish, which I believe are very good algea eaters.

Just a side note. I know Apistogramma cacatuoides are popular and easy to keep, but there are so many better looking Apistogramma species in my opinion. Have a look around the LFS and see what is available, and ask what other species they get in from time to time. Then go home and look on the net for information and photos of those species.

Remember that most SA cichlids don't show thier best colour in LFS tanks. It usually takes a month or two of TLC at home for them to show thier true potential.

Have you given any thought to the aquascape of the tank?


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

IMHO here's the "pretty" american cichlids that can fit in a 55 (not all together of course)

jack dempsey
firemouth
severum
Nicaraguan
convict


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

why dont you try some angels? maybe a few rams with them.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

tannable75 said:


> IMHO here's the "pretty" american cichlids that can fit in a 55 (not all together of course)
> 
> jack dempsey
> firemouth
> ...


That's a very small list, leaving out lot's of SA cichlids, let alone CA's.
Some SA Genus Lists:
Apistogramma
Apistogrammoides
Biotodoma
Cleithracara
Dicrossus
Guianacara
Gymnogeophagus
Krobia
Laetacara
Mikrogeophagus
Nannacara
Pterophyllum
Symphysodon

I believe most people would be able to find atleast one species in each of the genus that they would find atractive. The trick is coming up with a suitable stock list for a 55 gallon tank.

If I had access to the following species, I'd like to do a biotope tank based on species from the middle RÃ­o Orinoco drainage.
55 gallon tank, semi planted, with a couple of pieces of driftwood, a sand substrate with part of the open area covered in small river stones. The effect, a cross section of a shallow creek, with a planted bank area interspersed with driftwood, descending to a deeper rock riffle. The twist being, instead of the aquascape being from the back of the tank to the front of the tank, it's cross sectioned from the rear right corner to the front left corner. 
*Fish List*. 
Pair of Laetacara fulvipinnis
Pair of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi
Trio of Dicrossus filamentosus
15 Green neon tetra
12 Rummynose tetra
12 Blackwing hatchetfish 
2 Panaque maccus 
8 Corydoras habrosus 
8 Otocinclus vittatus


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

DeadFishFloating said:


> That's a very small list, leaving out lot's of SA cichlids, let alone CA's.


Intended to be my opinion of what I think is "pretty" not an all-inclusive list of what species exist


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

tannable75 said:


> DeadFishFloating said:
> 
> 
> > That's a very small list, leaving out lot's of SA cichlids, let alone CA's.
> ...


Yes I understood that.

The Genus lists I linked, contain pictures of SA cichlid species that will fit into a 55 gallon tank. So the OP can peruse through at his/her liesure.

I did up the tank setup as an example for the OP that you can have a good looking tank containing more than just cichlids. However I do understand that some people don't find such setups as interesting, and much prefer cichlid only tanks.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Bad *DFF* ... you forgot _Biotoecus, Ivanacara, Mazarunia, Taeniacara_, and of course _Tahuantinsuyoa_!!!!!!!!

But of course, differant people find differant fish pretty ... for instance I find Apisto cauc's to be one of the worst looking apistos, but most people love them.

A 55 could easily be based around a nice harem of apisto's ... with even a pair of _Laetacara curviceps_ thrown in there, lots of plants and small tetras.

Or a pair of firemouths and another pair of smaller centrals, like septs or myrnae.[/i]


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

LOL nah I didn't forget them. I just left out genus that contained SA cichlids that only an experienced keeper should try.

And I completely agree about the Cacs. They remind me of back alley English thugs.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

A good example are keyholes ... I find their patterns and fins very pretty, but becuase they are not colorfull, most people don't find them attractive.



> They remind me of back alley English thugs.


 :lol:

So many comments ... can't pick one ... *bites tongue to keep irish half from responding*


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

DeadFishFloating said:


> Have you given any thought to the aquascape of the tank?


Yeah. i know im gonna have a 20'' by 13'' piece of driftwood in the center of the tank and have plants tied to it.

gonna make some pvc caves along with some rock caves.

trying to make it look neat but inexpensive.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

G'day *Trucker*,

Do you know that many SA cichlids come from rivers and streams that contain no, or very few rocks. Instead many SA cichlids are used to taking shelter amongst driftwood and root tangles, or in amongst underwater vegetation.

I find it interesting and more than a bit confusing why so many people new to the hobby always talk about including rock caves and pvc pipes, etc. in thier setups. My belief is that they are influenced by African cichlid photos, where many of thier natural habitats contain large underwater rock formations.

PVC pipes are good if you are planing on breeding apistogrammas or fancy plecos, otherwise they really aren't neccessary.

Both my Laetacara species will take shelter under or in driftwood caves that are naturally formed by the logs in thier tanks, but only when really startled. Otherwise they dart for the planted areas.

I do have a couple of small river rocks in both tanks. These are used as spawning platforms for my Laetacara. Otherwise the only use they get is when my oto's eat any algea off them.

It's also possible the find good log caves at many LFS. Here's a couple photo's of mine. I find them much more natural looking than rock caves or pvc pipes.



















These two pieces are more for the benifit of my plecos, rather than my cichlids. You will notice a small river rock pile in the background of the first photo


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

neat  
so i gotta find some driftwood w/ holes in it lol.
hey just wonderin if you know if oscars would get along w/ discus and peacock bass?


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

Trucker said:


> hey just wonderin if you know if oscars would get along w/ discus and peacock bass?


Oscars and peacock bass (stick with smaller species though) might be fine, but discus would be out of the question with either of the two.
BV


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Trucker said:


> neat
> so i gotta find some driftwood w/ holes in it lol.
> hey just wonderin if you know if oscars would get along w/ discus and peacock bass?


Mate, have you even looked at the profiles for these fish here on C-F?!? You have a 55 gallon tank, you shouldn't be looking at any cichlids that grow more than 8 inches in length.

Please do some proper research before asking such questions. Some of us here do put a lot of effort into replying to newbies posts. I don't mind, as this is my wind down after work. But it does get to me when people keep asking questions that have been responded to in an earlier post in thier own thread.

It's questions/threads like this that make some of us here weary of replying to newbie posts. Which is not a good thing. Show us you've done some of your own research, mainly by asking some smart questions.

I will apologise for sounding b!tchy, but I hope others reading this post understand where I'm coming from. 
p.s. I also know I come off as arrogant in some posts, I don't mean to.


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

i have a 125 too.


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

Trucker said:


> i have a 125 too.


 :dancing:

And?

It's often helpfull to list all details related to specific questions.

Have you done any research yet?

Seeya Mate.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

:lol:


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

I agree with BV on the discus. In addition to incompatibility with so many species, they are not a beginner cichlid. They should really only be kept by very experienced and very dedicated enthusiasts.

As far as not doing your research you will gather more info quicker and more people will respond to you if you've already done your research.

However I guess I don't understand why some folks get frustrated when people ask questions without doing research first (Not picking on anyone specific as lots of regular posters express the same frustration). No one is forcing anyone to answer questions, if they dont' want to help the new guy that doesn't want to do a bunch of research they should just move to the next thread. I try to view everyone here like they are my neighbors. When my neighbor started to get into fishkeeping last year he asked me for lots of advice, and I never told him to he hadn't done enough research to be worthy of my expertise.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

tannable75 said:


> However I guess I don't understand why some folks get frustrated when people ask questions without doing research first (Not picking on anyone specific as lots of regular posters express the same frustration). No one is forcing anyone to answer questions, if they dont' want to help the new guy that doesn't want to do a bunch of research they should just move to the next thread. I try to view everyone here like they are my neighbors. When my neighbor started to get into fishkeeping last year he asked me for lots of advice, and I never told him to he hadn't done enough research to be worthy of my expertise.


It's not about not being worthy, it boils down to simple courtesy.

A lot of us here WANT to help people, sure no-one forces us and I generally share your mentality, but it's not just the hobbyist that makes the whole equation - there are fish too, most of the people who try to push through these sorts of things aren't necessarily doing it purely for the good of the hobbyist, they're doing it because they know that if they don't, the fish are far more likely to be kept poorly and this is incredibly frustrating for those who are trying to help.

Of course the best thing to do on a friendly level may be to move on, but that does not address that the individual in question is NOT taking on board advice that will make the difference between their fish being healthy and vice versa. One cannot know the extent to which an individual is going to do research until they have already engaged and spent their time in trying to help that individual first, so I entirely understand DFF's frustration because he has advised the OP to such great extents (I would love such advice as a newbie!) and seemingly the poster has not even cared to actually look into it, no matter how readily and easily that information has been available.

*Trucker*, have you looked into any of the links DFF gave you in his initial and secondary posts? It would be great if you would go through that list, take down notes of what you like specifically, then post that list up here, no numbers etc, just which species do you like, then we can start working the list down and start introducing suitable tank mates and aquascapes etc.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

The smallest of the six species of Peacock Bass get just under two feet longâ€¦ the largest getâ€™s a little over 3 feetâ€¦ They are both Territorial and very effective predatorsâ€¦

Oscars get about one foot long and although they are not exceptionally â€œaggressiveâ€


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

It's always definitely good to do lots of research before committing when considering New World cichlids. Look at compatibility and "minimum" tank size.

All of these guys start out small, and the tank will look empty until they grow... just resist the temptation to add more fish... or you could wind up with a real headache.

For a 55g, a rotkeil severum would be nice. 

-Ryan


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

got the aquascape set up as a piece of driftwood as centerpiece with plants tied to it and each side has rock caves.
white sand at bottom.
all i was asking was some ideas of fish to go with oscars but someone blew up but oh well.
they dont have to keep replying if they dont want to help me.
but i have 2 albino oscars..
2 jack dempsy's
and 2 assorted africans i dont know what they are..
one is blue and has yellow fins and other is albino. i plan on buying 1 more of each.
also plan on buying cockaoo dwarfs and orange blotch if possible.
im having a tank for africans and a tank for oscars and 1 for the jack dempsy's.
was jus asking for suggestions on other types to put in a tank w/ the oscars and with the jack dempsys.

dont waste your time if your gonna be rude. dont have time to read that. i have time to read answers.
thank you.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Trucker said:


> got the aquascape set up as a piece of driftwood as centerpiece with plants tied to it and each side has rock caves.
> white sand at bottom.
> all i was asking was some ideas of fish to go with oscars but someone blew up but oh well.
> they dont have to keep replying if they dont want to help me.
> ...


You'll get far with that attitude.....

If you can't be bothered to ask accurate questions detailing what you already have, instead of vague general questions that give the assumption that you are looking to stock a tank from scratch, and then expect people to react well when you drop it on them that you actually HAVE these fish, then carry on. You just wasted a load of their time and now you want to give them attitude.

=D>

People will really want to help you after that. You can't even be bothered to provide the whole picture. :roll: .... "Pretty Cichlids for a NEW 55 gallon".


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

yeah. i have a new 55 gallon.
have them in a 125 gallon now.
still babies all of them. 
once this water runs for anther 2 days the jack dempsy's go into 55, africans to the 40, and oscars in the 125.
thats why i was asking for ideas of fish.
i know what im doing *** owned several types of fish over the years.
jus was looking for opinions of pretty fish for tanks.
wasnt gonna buy them but i wanted opinions to narrow my search of them.
and the title is "pretty cichlid ideas for tank??‏"
i didnt say anything about what tank.
all i want is opinions then to narrow my search with what goes with whom.


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

Trucker said:


> got the aquascape set up as a piece of driftwood as centerpiece with plants tied to it and each side has rock caves.
> white sand at bottom.
> all i was asking was some ideas of fish to go with oscars but someone blew up but oh well.
> they dont have to keep replying if they dont want to help me.
> ...


This changes things... so what size tanks do you have?.... and what fish/livestock do you have?

You may be maxed out fishwise here, but we need to have the full story to help.

-Ryan


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

Trucker said:


> yeah. i have a new 55 gallon.
> have them in a 125 gallon now.
> still babies all of them.
> once this water runs for anther 2 days the jack dempsy's go into 55, 2 assorted africans to the 40, and 2 oscars in the 125.
> ...


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Right now we're getting somewhere.

So for the record:

*125 Gallon:*
2x Oscars

*55 Gallon:*
2x JD's

*40 Gallon*:
Africans (presumably Mbuna?).

You really can't just buy African Cichlids according to whim, you need to find out what the fish you already have are and what will be suitable tankmates for them (if they will even suit the 40 gallon - which is pretty small and IME best suited to a Demasoni tank), this is particularly true with Africans otherwise you will end up with either hybrid or dead fish, I guarantee it.

If the JDs are a mating pair in the 55 then you're going to be hard pushed to put anything in there with them and not have it end up beaten to pulp, others may want to comment.

As for the Oscars, I believe you are getting specific help on them in the Oscar sub forum, all I know is I wouldn't put any of the gentle dwarf SA's in with them or they'll end up as lunch, as has already been mentioned.

Fish I'd consider as potential tank mates for the O's would be Firemouths, Convicts, anything that can really handle itself but without being big enough to challenge the O's - otherwise you'll end up with trouble. I'm sure some have kept Sevs with their Os but as you have a pair it really can change things and having not bred them, I would not feel comfortable making suggestions.

At the end of the day you've given barely a third of the full picture and asked for opinions and help on a forum where people ask these questions all the time because they want to buy the fish (a reasonable expectation). If you can't remember that far, I suggest you go back and read you very first post.....



> *any ideas of pretty cichlids for my new 55g*?


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## rogersb (May 21, 2007)

Trucker said:


> yeah. i have a new 55 gallon.
> have them in a 125 gallon now.
> still babies all of them.
> once this water runs for anther 2 days the jack dempsy's go into 55, africans to the 40, and oscars in the 125.
> ...


I've been following this, I hope I'm not in the minority, but I thought they were in one tank and that was the only tank there was going to be. I don't think you will find many who agree with having three oscars and three jacks in those tanks, but I could be wrong. I would personally find out what the africans are by going through the profiles section. If they are small, throw in more than one more of each, they will most likely need extras to spread around the aggression.


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

ok i know a guy that has an over population of convicts he told me to take as many as i like i was gonna find a paired 2 of them in his tank. so that would work with the oscars. 
but i have no idea if the jd are paired still young.
and for the africans. i bought them at petsmart all it said was assorted african cichlids.
i bought 1 blue one that has yellow fins and 1 albino one. was planning on gettin 1 more albino and 1 more blue one. 
but was also gonna get more africans for that tank.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

> You really can't just buy African Cichlids according to whim, you need to find out what the fish you already have are and what will be suitable tankmates for them (if they will even suit the 40 gallon - which is pretty small and IME best suited to a Demasoni tank), this is particularly true with Africans otherwise you will end up with either hybrid or dead fish, I guarantee it.


Take pics of what you already have (Africans) and post them here:

http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=14

Make sure you mention your tank size!

After they have been ID'd go to the Malawi/Tang section (most likely Malawi) and start a post there stating the fish you already have, the tank size, and ask what will work in your set up.

Most importantly, listen to the advice! You might believe you know better, but trust me on this, take the advice, there are a lot of specialist Cichlid keepers here. :thumb:


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

rogersb, i though so too I don't think you're the minority.

Trucker,
Pretty much any M-F pair of convicts will pair up; dang near instantly if they are old enough. JD's take a little longer. Just be aware that breeding=agression and you need to be prepared for it. Oscars are big, but aren't that agressive and the little cons may pick on them when breeding, which is always.


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

yeah i dont know if im gonna take the offer of taking some convicts but its just one idea.


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

Update!
for the africans lol..
pseudotropheus...??
think thats how its spelt


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## Philg (May 14, 2007)

The variety of SA species is huge and ultimately up to the individual to choose from, provided they know what they are doing.A planted tank together with discus is beautiful but you should know that it is a fairly substantial commitment in terms of maintenance time spent to ensure excellent water quality and aquascaping


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

took some pics..
http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=179703


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## LJ (Sep 12, 2007)

Try to figure out what you'd like to do with those JDs.

Do you want a pair? If not, then I would not suggest keeping more than one JD in the 55.

If you do want a pair, then go ahead and add 4 more JDs to the 55 while they are all still young. This will increase your chances of having a strong pair form. You will have to remove the others once a pair has formed. Think about it though, if this is really what you want. Do the research, and find out what having a JD pair entails. It will require more work than a single JD.

If you decide you don't want a pair, then let us know, and we can guide you in another direction based around a single JD with some smaller complementary fish.


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

i think ill stick with 1 and give the other to my neighbor he said he thought they was cool


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Wise decisions..... I'm glad you're taking this stuff on board now we've cleared up the haze.

:thumb:

Much better bro. Just don't do what so many like to; after getting sensible coming back and telling us that you've thrown a aro in there or something like that, stick to it and it may be frustrating at times but in the long run you _will_ be rewarded for good fishkeeping practice.


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

yeah at this point im gonna end up with another 55g soon Lol.
so many to choose from.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

When you go to buy your next tank... consider getting a 75 gal... it costs a bit more in the beginning but the extra 6" front to back is suitable to a wider selection of fish...

But then again those 180s are real nice...


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

For how cheap tanks are for you guys I'd be getting a 125 - Doesn't pet(smart/co/whoever) have a 1$ a gallon on their 125's?

Shoot my 55 gallon cost (after exchange) $700 alone!! You guys can get twice the tank for the equivalent of what it would cost me just to buy a brand name 20 gallon.

:drooling:


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

The $1 per gallon sale is normally on tanks up to 40 gallons... but this year they changed it to up to 20 or 29 gallons...

I knew of two stores in my town (Charlotte, NC) that sold 125 gal tanks w/ stand, lids & lights for $500... but I haven't double checked prices in the last year or two since gas prices / shipping prices have skyrocketed.

So it sounds like they are cheaper for us... but not as much as you think...

Then you have your cheap skates like me... Almost all of my tanks came to me used at about $1 per gallon...

I didn't realize it until just now but only 3 out of my 25 tanks were bought new...


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

Craigslist baby, craigslist......

I don't think I'll ever buy a tank bigger than a 29 new again. LOTS of people go out there and buy the biggie, don't cycle it, kill $200 worth of fish, grumble something about how stupid the hobby is and list it on CL for 20% of its value....

If you are patient here you can get a full setup (tank, stand, filtration, lighting) for $1 a gallon or less. If you want it quick you can get 'em for $2 a gallon, they're always available.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

I wish we had the same sort of market here, nowhere near as readily available as it is for you guys, incredibly frustrating really. Considering the initial start up cost you just don't see big tanks - for anyone to go out and get a 6ft you're looking at <1000 just for the tank and factory stand, so most people who buy stuff like that tend to hold on to it or resale for pretty much what they bought, unfortunately. I am in negotiations with someone right now actually, 6ft tank, 100 notes, fingers crossed I can slip it past the missus eh, so rare to find anything half that size for the same price, I'm on tenterhooks I tell you that, might go mad if I have to pass it up...

opcorn:


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I'm so proud of you guys! :thumb:

You've been given some excellent advise, Trucker.

I'm not sure you would be able to keep a pair of JDs in a 55G, 75G would be more like it, so I hope I'm understanding that you are only going to keep one of the two that you have.

My advise would be to post threads (along with the tank size you intend to use) in the different folders for CA, SA and Malawis, and work out your different set ups in the appropriate areas.

For SA, one of my most entertaining tanks was a 55g. It housed two breeding pairs of Bolivian rams, a quad of gold rams (1 male and 3 females) and many other Bolivians in various stages of "grow out". I then added dojo loaches, Buenos aries tetras, scissortail rasboras, and a group of albino cories to the mix.


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## RyanR (Apr 29, 2008)

tannable75 said:


> Craigslist baby, craigslist......
> 
> I don't think I'll ever buy a tank bigger than a 29 new again. LOTS of people go out there and buy the biggie, don't cycle it, kill $200 worth of fish, grumble something about how stupid the hobby is and list it on CL for 20% of its value....
> 
> If you are patient here you can get a full setup (tank, stand, filtration, lighting) for $1 a gallon or less. If you want it quick you can get 'em for $2 a gallon, they're always available.


Wish it was like that here.

In the greater Ohio area, I've been really frustrated searching on Craigslist for a larger tanks (75-135g). Most folks simply want waaaay too much money for used tanks around here. They seem to feel they can recoup like 90% back on what they put into the set up. :roll:

To me, saving $50 for a questionable set-up over 75g just isn't worth it: gawd only knows what kind of evil might be lurking in that tank. After four weeks of scouring every Craiglist posting within 300 miles, we just caved and bought a brandy new 75g... for not much more than some clown on Craigslist wanted for a pretty sketchy 65g. Which was the best deal we came across.

-Ryan


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## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

RyanR said:


> To me, saving $50 for a questionable set-up over 75g just isn't worth it: gawd only knows what kind of evil might be lurking in that tank. After four weeks of scouring every Craiglist posting within 300 miles, we just caved and bought a brandy new 75g... for not much more than some clown on Craigslist wanted for a pretty sketchy 65g. Which was the best deal we came across.


I wouldn't go used for 5% off either. I notice some of the larger setups listed where they go on and on about how much they paid for it, and they want to recoup most of their cost. If I see the same add listed 2-3 times I know it isn't selling and I make a low offer. Sometimes they start asking for more and I tell them "Sorry that's all I can pay, no hard feelings, just keep my number if you change your mind."  I just got my neighbor a 125 with stand and lights for $150. I'm not sure how but I managed to become the neighborhood "tank broker". :lol:


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## Trucker (Sep 9, 2008)

yeah i got my 55g off craigslist.
my 125g i bought new.
same w/ 40g


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## LJ (Sep 12, 2007)

> i think ill stick with 1


Good call. Keep him or her alone as a wet pet.


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