# Possible bloat?



## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

A few months back i lost a white convict cichlid to something that made her look like a pinecone. I now suspect that one of my other fish has it as well. I checked the water properties and they are all normal for my cichlid species; the only thing that is off(maybe) is the temperature which is a degree or two off. 
My "sick" cichlid is red around his mouth, his mouth is extended and not relaxed as usual and he is slightly bloated. I have treated the tank twice with metronidazole which seemed to give him his appatite back but failed to cure his bloating. About a week later he lost his appatite again. I have put pee's in the tank hoping they would ease his ailing intestines but have yet to see him pass any waste. 
Today i bought a gravel pump and did a 50% water change, putting in the appropriate chemicals to dechlorinate the water. Afterwards i put in the medication and, i dont know if im imagining this, he looked slightly better after about a half hour. 
The tank is established and has been for 10 years the fish in it are 10 years old and this is the first problem i have had. The tank is 20 gallons well aerated and houses four fish. I do not wish to move the ailing fish because the 2 other tanks that we have have had at least one bout of infection (from newly added fish). 
Is there anything else that i can do for them? I really dont want to lose any of them and think of them as a member of the family(they each have names). Any ideas as to what could cause the fish to lose his appatite, suck for air, redden and bloat? Could it be malowi bloat? Should i move him? I just dont want to stress him and really hope that there is someone out there that can help me cure my sick fish. Thank you in advance and if there is any other info needed please dont hesitate to ask.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Check the Bloat article below, specifically for epsom salt dosages.
What was your metro dosage and schedule?


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

The past 2 or 3 times i have alternated between 2 and 1 scoops(i guess). In your opinion should i quarentine him? Would he be better put in a different tank?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

You can treat the entire tank without issues.
A higher dosage along with epsom salt may do the trick. Increase to 2 scoops per 10g. Dose daily with a 30-40% water change before each dosage. Remember to add epsom salt to the new water, or add as you're filling. For the initial epsom salt dosage, add it slowly over 4-5 hours, 2 tbsp per 10g. Check the article for more details.


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

Thank you. So i can treat the tank with the other 3 fish in the tank? Would there be any side effects on the other three if they dont really show signs of bloat? And is epsom salt safe for the other 3 as well or is there some kind of thing that will happen to the normal fish?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

It's possible that bloat could spread to the other fish, so treating the entire tank would be considered preventative.
What are the species of fish in the tank? I should have asked earlier but misread and thought it was a convict along with 3 other central american fish.


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

Ok sounds good and yeah all four are pink convict cichlids of varying sizes. Does that make a difference as to how i should treat?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

1Cichlid17LoVeR7 said:


> Ok sounds good and yeah all four are pink convict cichlids of varying sizes. Does that make a difference as to how i should treat?


Nope. :thumb:


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

Allright, so this morning i woke up and he looks like he's gasping less than he was and also looks like his mouth is more relaxed and in a more natural position. So treat for 5 days and any idea when i should be seeing improvement? Thank you so much for the help youve given it has been an incedible help.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

A lot depends on what the actual problem is. There are a number of different ailments that could be causing the symptoms you're seeing. I'd give it 5-7 days to see a noticeable improvement.


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

Ok and, without a pciture just from the description, does it sound like theres a good chance of recovery? I meen obviously once his scales pinecone he's just lost. I understand if you have no idea thank you for the help


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

Oh and will the meds and salt fix the bloating itself or just give him his appitite back and get rid of the bacteria?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

If it's bloat and the fish appears bloated, it's often too late. 
Impossible to predict recovery if the fish is bloated due to an obstruction or infection or other cause.
Medicating will reduce the number of flagellates (parasites) which obstruct the digestive system. 
Epsom salt will act as a laxative and will help the fish to pass excess mucus which is produced due to the increased number of flagellates.


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

Ok but everything *** read says that when they loat they pass away with a week, he's been bloated for like a year or two


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

1Cichlid17LoVeR7 said:


> he's been bloated for like a year or two


You might have mentioned that sooner 
So, unlikely that it's 'bloat'. Other possibilities are internal obstruction of some kind, but not severe enough to cause death, some kind of internal growth or tumor, overfeeding or possibly a kidney affliction of some kind.
Whatever the cause is, it sounds like it has progressed to the point where it's affecting the fish's appetite which is never a good sign. Unfortunately, treatment is something of a crapshoot from here on out. I would continue with the epsom salt and metro for the rest of the treatment period. If the fish isn't eating once that treatment is finished, I'd switch to an antibacterial med such as kanamycin (Seachem Kanaplex) or nitrofurazone (API Furan-2) or both.


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

Ok then. If he gets appitite back should i treat the same way again? And using the other meds can i treat him in the same tank?


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

And the other fish i lost looked bloated for a while beofore she looked like a pinecone


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

1Cichlid17LoVeR7 said:


> Ok then. If he gets appitite back should i treat the same way again? And using the other meds can i treat him in the same tank?


Do the remainder of the treatment then see if he eats a few pellets, don't do a normal feed amount. If he eats, do a water change 24 hours after the last metro dosage, add epsom to the replacement water and fast for a further 3-5 days. Return to normal salinity and resume regular feeding and water changes.
If he doesn't eat after the current treatment, perform a 50% water change, run carbon for 24 hours, then proceed with the other medications with carbon removed. It would be best to have the fish in a separate tank while medicating with antibacterials. In fact, all of the treatments would be best in a separate tank just to be able to monitor excrement amounts and color/consisitency, but the priority would be for the antibiotic meds, epsom and metro are ok for the other fish.



1Cichlid17LoVeR7 said:


> And the other fish i lost looked bloated for a while beofore she looked like a pinecone


How long roughly was a while?
What do you feed?


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

I would say the other was bloated like a year-ish. Since the 2 have the same symptomes and issues i doubt its a tumor or growth. Is there anything else that causes the fish to be bloated other than what im treating for now? He looks better after these past days of treating. He looks more responsive and is sucking air less. We feed them omega one small cichlid pellets and occasionaly veggies


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I would look for a common cause, such as food, water change amount and frequency, any water additives, tank size, aggression, etc.


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

There is aggresion would the aggresion cause them to bloat though? The food was being fed to the other one as well so its a candidate but there is no other thing that i could really think of the water is changed regularly and there is no other problems. How many 6 inch convicts should be kept in a twenty gallon? May it be over stocked?


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

When i say aggresion i mean semi. They each have their own territories. The only other thing i could thing of would be over crouding


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

Oh and one more thing, the 2 medications you mentioned are they for parasites or bacteria? If i cant find any of the mentioned medicines can i use anything else? This is why i am asking if it is fungal or bacterial


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Nitrofurazone and kanamycin are both antibacterial. If you don't end up seeing results from the metronidazole and epsom salt, then it's a shot in the dark as far as what else could be causing them to bloat. The metro is anti-parasitic and antibacterial to a degree. If it doesn't work, the next thing I would try would be a broad based antibacterial like the ones I suggested.
Check thatpetplace.com or kensfish.com for the meds.
What are the dimensions of your 20 gallon? I don't think there should be more than a pair of full grown (6") convicts in a 20 gallon tank.


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

He's still not eating. *** just put a quarentine tank up. I put the bio filter cartrage from the home tank in there to build the bio up. I put a hiding place and some gravel. I filled it with like 2-3 gallons from the home tank and the rest ias tap. How long should i wait before moving him? And just a question how long have you had cichlids for?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

1Cichlid17LoVeR7 said:


> He's still not eating. I've just put a quarentine tank up. I put the bio filter cartrage from the home tank in there to build the bio up. I put a hiding place and some gravel. I filled it with like 2-3 gallons from the home tank and the rest ias tap. How long should i wait before moving him? And just a question how long have you had cichlids for?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've been treating with epsom and metro for 2 or 3 days? Give it another 5 days before you move him. I assume you're moving him to give the antibiotics a try?
Dose epsom salt in the quarantine tank so that it's the same concentration as what he's used to from the other tank.
I started out with tropicals about 15 years ago, left the hobby for a while, then got back into it about 5 or 6 years ago. Mainly malawi, with a few tanganyikan tanks along the way.


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

I had started last tuesday, i had the meds from before and started using it when he started looking bad. So he was treated for 5 days. Your saying give him another five days before moving him? If he turns for the worst before five days are up can i move him? Is there a certain number of days before the quarentine tank is safe for fish (not that im going to move him before another five days).
*** had the cichlids for ten years and i just dont want them to pass away


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

I'd give it another 3 days to see if there's any physical improvement or if he'll eat.
If you transferred filter media from a cycled tank into the quarantine tank, then it should be good to go. What size is the tank?
I've never kept convicts so I don't know a whole lot about them, but the little research I did suggests that their lifespan is around the 10 year mark. I'm sure there are some that live longer or not as long. This makes me wonder if this illness could just be a natural progression due to age.
Either way, I'd stil attempt to treat if it was my fish.


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## 1Cichlid17LoVeR7 (Oct 12, 2011)

Ok so ill move him on tuesday if there is no signifigant improvement. If it is old age i would think that the others would show some sign of old age as well. 
It could be old age but i find it odd that i had a fish pass from the same simptomes. I will continue to treat him in the other tank until he is better or otherwise. If anything putting him in the new tank will reduce the crowding in the home tank. The new tank is a ten gallon tne other was a 20 gallon. 
Thank you for all the help. Ill move my little buddy on wedsday and start treating him. How long after moving him should i start treating him. If the first medicine doensnt work then how long should i wait before treating him with something else?


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