# Jack Dempsey...I guess :)



## Nanni (Jul 14, 2009)

Hi everybody!

I am a "new" fan of all kinds of cichlids! But I have to admit that I was actually pretty unprepared when I got my first. When I started with a starter aquarium-kit (20 gl, artificial plants and small stones as gravel) I didn't know anything about the cichlids, except what the sales person told me about. I started reading in the internet and tried to find books about cichlids but I still have a long way to go.

Well, on the salesmens recommendation I took about 6 cichlids (he couldn't tell me which kind they were!) and two clown loaches. I loved those eight ones and I am sad to say, that only one survived. For some reason I couldn't get my ammonia level balanced. Now I think because I didn't give my tank enough time to balance itself... Unfortunately the tank was only runnning for one week, before I brought those eight fishes home. (Thought you should start with one, but the salesperson said, thats not important?) Anyway, there I am - lost all my first fishes except of one yellow cichlid. Now my levels are pretty ok, but I will check later again and then I can let you know the actual parameters.

I actually think the yellow one is a she . But I still can't figure out what kind... can you help me? She seems to hide a lot - also when she was alone in the tank.

 (thats her now!)

After having her for two weeks alone she grew a lot and I figure I better add more fishes now than later, because its hard to find this size of cichlids here around .

 (thats about two weeks after moving in)

So I found one Cichlid that seemed to be big enough to survive with her in the tank. 
Nobody could tell me what kind it is. I just knew its a cichlid and a beautiful as well . 
 (thats the size he is now after about 3 months)

He moved in with a algae eater. In the beginning the yellow one chased the new one a lot and I was really worried about it. But after two days she was back to normal and hiding again, while the other one was most of the time waiting for food. Both seem to be pretty cool around each other. Sometimes she actually is around him and relaxed. When he gets agressive, most of the time its the algae eater who is the target... and he is big enough and fast enough to help himself...

After searching around in internet I guess the second on is a Jack Dempsey. 
Everything I read fits to "him". 
But I really would like to hear your opinion to that as well.

I hope my explanation are not to chaotic and mixed up. I have actually also a few questions... 
Hopefully you can help me: 
What kind of cichlids do you think those two are? (Then I can get me additional infos about them)
Which book would you recommend me about Cichlids general? 
If the second one is a Jack Dempsey my tank is way to small, don't you think?
Actually I read, its better to keep more of those cichlids, but in this tank it seems, they are pretty happy with that space and any more would make problems for them? 
My yellow pretty one starts rearranging the tank, sometimes in the evening it even seems she is digging in the gravels... could she get hurt by that? Also she seems to nibble on the plants... is that dangerous because they are artificial? (Honestly I guess she would destroy a real one in one night....)

I need also to tell you that my english is not at its best - I moved in from Germany about 1,5 years ago and I am still learning that as well...

And here are all the other infos, I need to tell you: 
2. Filtration - what kind and size, even what media you use
Tetra wisper filter

3. Other water movers - air pumps, powerheads
nothing - do I need that?

4. Substrate, rocks, plants, and other decorations used
Gravel - those hard plastic stuff - little car with plants (hiding place for the yellow), bell (hiding place for the algae eater), wreck with plants and a piece with additional plants in the middle (hiding place for the Jack in the first weeks)

5. Fish being stocked, quantity, species, and sizes
1 yellow cichlid around 3 inches long , 1 algae eater around 4 inches long, 1 dark cichlid around 4 inches long as well - but really fat 

6. Lighting - tube size, wattage, bulbs used, number of bulbs
I never use the lighting, seems to me the fishes just dont like it. And I don't need it... 

7. Water parameters - PH, KH, Ammonia, Nitrite are most important
follows.

8. Maintanance schedule (how often you vacuum, do water changes, maintain filters)
I do vacuum every week - now with this Jack in it . Water changes every week - around 1/3 of water. Filter change as soon as it gets to dirty... but mor like every 1,5 months I guess.

I really appreciate your help with those questions!

Nanni


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

The yellow one is a Lake Malawi mbuna, but is a hybrid. It's a cross between a yellow lab (L. caeruleus) and a red zebra (M. estherae). The dark one is indeed a Jack Dempsey, but is a female.

Are these fish still in a 20gal tank? The yellow one by itself can live in there, but the tank is much too small for a Jack Dempsey.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Welcome to Cichlid Forum and a belated welcome to the USâ€¦

Never take advice from a salesman that can not tell you the name of the item he is trying to sell you  Itâ€™s a shame how much bad advice is given by pet stores.

The new fish is indeed a female Jack Dempsey, and I trust what Sinister Kisses suggests about the yellow fish (I know very little about African Cichlids).



> 2. Filtration - what kind and size, even what media you use
> Tetra wisper filter


They key for filtration is the bigger the betterâ€¦ If I had a 20 gal tank I would put an Aqua Clear 70 on itâ€¦



> 3. Other water movers - air pumps, powerheads
> nothing - do I need that?


It is critical to have â€œsurface agitationâ€


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## Nanni (Jul 14, 2009)

> Never take advice from a salesman that can not tell you the name of the item he is trying to sell you Wink Itâ€™s a shame how much bad advice is given by pet stores.


You are sooo right!

But now first a big Thank you to both of you!



> The yellow one is a Lake Malawi mbuna, but is a hybrid. It's a cross between a yellow lab (L. caeruleus) and a red zebra (M. estherae).


I was thinking about the yellow lab, but was irritated by the black stripe on their finn I saw on pictures, which she doesn't has... Was browsing already a lot about the yellow lab. Thanks for that!

Thanks Toby_H for all the technical support! That helps a lot! I already was thinking about technical improvement . So I have a direction!
Will work on that!

But I really don't know what to do with my JD - sure would love to keep him/her ... I just can't buy a bigger tank and I sure won't bring him back to the place, I got him!

Nanni


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

Go on www.craigslist.com and look were you live for a 55g she will apreciate it


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## JerseyGiant88 (Jun 17, 2009)

Nanni said:


> Thought you should start with one, but the salesperson said, thats not important


You thought right. They will tell you anything to get you to buy more fish even if it means giving you sh*t advice like this. It's a shame you had to have seven fish die because of dumbass advice.

I also agree with jack lover, get the 55 gallon if you can afford it. You're not supposed to keep Dempseys with African cichlids, but i've had 2 dempseys with 4 africans for about a year and they get along great. your two cichlids and bottom feeder will thrive in a 55 gallon and its big enough that they shouldn't fight over territory. btw, i would also suggest live plants for your aquarium as well, they look better and they keep the nitrates down as well.

If you keep them in the 20 gallon they will almost certainly end up fighting/stressing each other so if you want to keep the 20 you will probably have to return one or the other.


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## Nanni (Jul 14, 2009)

I was on craigslist to check the prices for the bigger ones, but truly - we can't afford that... There would be probably one offer, I could afford, but then I still would need a stand! 
And all this other Deco stuff... guess thats to much for me to handle at the moment! 
But if I decide to give on of my faves away - it sure would be the Jack D., just because the yellow one came through all this trouble with me . And JD definitely needs a larger tank! 
How could I find him a nice place though!
I will truly think about the real plants - I would love to have that and I now found a few stores around, where I can get some! Will take a look at them next week and see, if there is something that fits to us. 
Why can't you keep an african cichlid in the same tank with an Jack Dempsey? Ar the JDs to agressive? Or just because of the size or the behavior? 
And if i keep my yellow lab - would I be able to get another mate for her in the 20 gal tank?
Thanks you all for answering!
Nanni


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## oldcatfish (May 27, 2009)

Actually you can keep most African cichlids with Jack Dempseys. But you have to have a large enough tank, and you have to set it up the correct way.

Mbuna cichlids from Lake Malawi like your Yellow Lab, are very fast moving & agile fish that claim rocky territories. In nature, they almost always stay close to the rocks.

Central American cichlids like your Jack Dempsey, are substrate spawning cichlids. They are very powerful, but sedentary for the most part.

To set up a tank for both, you would have a lot of rockwork caves on one side of the tank...then the other would be left much more open--with say, a large piece of overhanging driftwood branch. You would keep a wide open area in the middle. The Central American will usually choose the driftwood are, while the African(s) will choose the rocks.


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## JerseyGiant88 (Jun 17, 2009)

oldcatfish said:


> Actually you can keep most African cichlids with Jack Dempseys. But you have to have a large enough tank, and you have to set it up the correct way.


This is definitely true. I followed oldcatfish's advice in my tank and it worked to perfection. I had a Golden Malawi that was bullying everybody but after i rearranged my tank into two halves, he calmed down and he allows the other fish to pass through and stay in his "territories". All fish are different so it might not always work but its definitely worth a shot.

I know what you mean about the expenses too. Once a tank is up and running the costs aren't too outrageous, but to first buy and set up a tank can be a killer. I just set up my new 75 gallon about a month ago and it cost me a fortune, and I didn't even have to buy the tank (I resealed a tank that was inherited from a friend) or the fish (transferred from my previous tank).


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## jamesman_1994 (Jun 23, 2009)

hay dude the JD's is def a girl with the colouration on her gill cover....... but a very good looking one at that


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## BRANT13 (Feb 18, 2009)

SinisterKisses said:


> The yellow one is a Lake Malawi mbuna, but is a hybrid. It's a cross between a yellow lab (L. caeruleus) and a red zebra (M. estherae).


how are u able to tell what it was crossed with?


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## Nanni (Jul 14, 2009)

Thank you so much for those explanations!!
I think I was lucky then, because I have this one little hiding space on the one side and the other hiding spaces on the other side of the tank - in the middle a artifial log with plants on it - like a border or something... So like you said, the yellow lab was on the on side all the time hiding an just swimming out there, when it was feeding time, the JD "took" the other half it seems. And they came along GREAT. But now the yellow lab is getting uneasy...  . She starts bugging the JD more and more since yesterday by swimming in "the other side" and going after her. And so does the JD, she goes after the algae eater. But in a big enough tank I guess it would work quite well! 
Nanni


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## Robchester_2000 (Nov 8, 2008)

BRANT13 said:


> SinisterKisses said:
> 
> 
> > The yellow one is a Lake Malawi mbuna, but is a hybrid. It's a cross between a yellow lab (L. caeruleus) and a red zebra (M. estherae).
> ...


i think because it is such a popular hybrid. most of the yellow labs without the black markings and orangey yellow color are lab/estherae crosses. it might not be, but it's pretty likely.


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## kevbc03 (Jul 17, 2009)

A 55 gallon would be absolutely perfect for that JD. Hope everything works out!!


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