# Another Stocking Post ;) Finishing Thoughts



## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

I have a 75G tank.

Currently in the tank are:

18 Pseudotropheus demasoni
6 Labidochromis caeruleus

5 Labeotropheus fuelleborni - 1 Blue w/red dorsal Male and 4 OB females(arriving on wed.)
6 Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" - (Yellow fin Acei getting picked up this sun)

That will give me 35 fish. Right now the largest thing in the tank are some of the Demasoni who at most are only a little over 2''. The Acei and Fuelleborni will arrive at around 2'' as well. Once they all grow I just want to make sure there is going to be enough room. Do these numbers seem ok to everyone? Right now theres a large Pleco and Catfish in there who are both coming out and getting replaced by a 2.5'' Pleco.

I do about 25% water changes everyweek and use a Eheim 2217 canister filter to filter the tank with a power jet added to help move the water around. I have several rock formation with tons of caves, tunnels, cliffs, and over hangs along with a DIY background with the priviously mentioned. It seems like they'll have more then enough nooks and crannies.

With everyone besides the Demasoni (because their in such a large group) I plan to have 1M and the other 5 or 4F. Obviously with their small size I can't do this yet but I plan to work with friends who are breeding to end up with that to keep aggression down and colors up!!! 

Please throw in all of your wisdom!!! :thumb:


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Gee I dunno, I've never had dems or fuelleborni. Sorry I can't help.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

As far as compatibility between the species - there shouldn't be a problem. I think your numbers are good, too - good male to female ratios.


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

why_spyder said:


> As far as compatibility between the species - there shouldn't be a problem. I think your numbers are good, too - good male to female ratios.


ok good. the numbers are my biggest concearn. i believe the species will do well togeather and compliment themselves well and there should be enough females for the males. just 35 fish seem like a ton in the tank. i just have to get use to the crowding look i guess


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

It sounds like a lot (and is), but if as long as the water stays within the right parameters - I don't foresee any problems.

It might look a bit crowded - but there will always be something going on.


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

why_spyder said:


> It sounds like a lot (and is), but if as long as the water stays within the right parameters - I don't foresee any problems.
> 
> It might look a bit crowded - but there will always be something going on.


oh yeah i love them all inthere and cant wait to add the other 2 species. my water seems to be fine. as far as the nitrate what would you recommend. i do 25% water changes. how low should i keep it or how do i know its to high? i have plants in there too that should lower it


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

anybody else have any ideas or have a similar set up????


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

I'd up it to 50% weekly to be safe.


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## DNK (Jun 8, 2007)

I'm about to set up a slightly larger tank than yours as an upgrade with same mbuna stock and numbers except substitiute cobalts for your fuelleborni.
The amount of fish for your tank seems fine if it's a standard 75gal tank footprint.
Also, your filter isn't particularly big for that size tank compared to most peoples' but if it's doing the job.... Just keep an eye on it as you add more fish and as they grow.

Should look good!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I would increase the size of the water changes to at least 40% weekly, and consider adding another filter as the fish grow larger. :thumb:


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## jhunbj (May 16, 2005)

Instead of a pleco...get a group of Synodontis Petricola. :thumb: I agree about the 40% WC and another filter(Eheim 2217).


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

hey thanks everyone for the advice. I'll start taking out more water. it seems like most people dont do huge water changes and i was kind of scared that it would be to much chlorine or something. i always add my marine salt, epsom salt, and baking soda but never any de-chlorinator or anything....lol i think some people were saying stresscoat works well and helps them and they add every water change. maybe i should just buy that in bulk from somewhere. let me know if any of you add it or what else you use and where you get it.

as far as the tank yes it is the standard 75g footprint. 48long by18 if i remember right. right now i have an Ehiem 2217. i dont have the $$$ right now to buy brand new but i'll keep my eyes open on craigslist. i guess i could always get another 2217. i think the paper work on it says its up to 125g but i guess thats for smaller tropical fish and they dont account for the crowding. is the bigest worry the nitrate? i added some plants and i plan to add some more to help with that and i'd imagine the water changes will keep that low. the kit i use says it tests for total nitrate which it explains is different and give a higher number then other kits. its at 20-10ppm normally. i guess after i add fish that will change plus when they grow. what would be a dangerous number for this kit?????

for the synodontis petricola i will probably wait for a batch from the next CCA meeting i go to. the only thing is i really want my fry and i hear they will steal all my eggs!!!! :x they are just catfish right? they dont eat any algea?

thanks again


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You're going to need to have alot of plants with that bunch. That seems to be the key to keeping plants with mbuna. If you just have a few, they will most likely be destroyed, but if you have them all over the place, they tend to not do as much damage to single plants and the survival rate is better!

You're also going to want to have plants that are anchorable to the decor in your tank and don't need to be planted in the substrate. Those fuelleborni will be big diggers, and they won't leave anything planted that isn't well anchored, and will constantly expose roots of the plants that go in the substrate.

They (plants) aid in keeping the balance in your tank as far as the water goes, but they can't replace water changes.

I like to have at least twice the filtration needed for my tanks. For instance, on all my 55G, they have two AC's - each recommended for 75G tanks. It keeps the oxygen within the water to a comfortable level for the fish, but I still do my water changes (40%) weekly.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Why don't you add dechlorinator? Do you have a well? I think a lot of people use Prime.


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

cichlidaholic----I figured I would need to have a lot of them. Giving them spinach almost everyday. at least every other day seems to greatly help. I just rubber band it to a rock that has fishing line on it and lower it into the tank. works really well and makes it really easy. they love it and they stay away from my plants. I think the Acei and Fuelleborni will be bigger diggers/plant eaters so we'll see what happens. most of the plants now are all the way at the bottom of the sand bed and then have rocks over them. i figure that will be trial and error.

i might start rubberbanding them to rocks and burring the rocks under the substrate. i figure rubber bands are the best thing to use. I'll make sure i keep up on my water changes. so far so good.

is there a way to test the oxygen level?

I also have several air stones but aren't using any... should i use them

djransome- theres really no reason why. i was just told some people say you should and others think you don't need to. I'm just looking into it. the tanks only been up and running about a month or two.


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## mojeb21 (Dec 29, 2006)

do u have a picture?


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

mojeb21 said:


> do u have a picture?


several but i'm having trouble getting them off the digital camera and onto here. do you all use photo bucket or what? it doesnt help that this computer is full of spyware. my brother is suppose to be fixing it when he gets back from the ocean


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

I think most people use either photobucket or imageshack.


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

why_spyder said:


> I think most people use either photobucket or imageshack.


this coming week i'll be adding the acei and hopefully my fuelleborni as well. when that happens my tank should be done really and hopefully i'll just be taking out fry and thats it!!!!  anyway when thats all said and done and everythings settles i'm going to figure out how to get the my tanks thing set up. probably have to use the g.fs computer


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I agree with DJRansome on the dechlorinator.

You never know when your water company may add other chemicals to the water, and it's really important to be ready if they do. Prime is my choice, also.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have never (except in books written years ago) read or heard of anyone who says it is unnecessary to use dechlor unless you have a private well.

Between this forum and others I belong to, I've heard horror stories of people forgetting the dechlor and killing the entire tank, or doing a whole fish room and skipping one tank accidentally. Makes me glad I have a well, one less mistake I can make.

Years ago chlorine was the chemical of choice and you could let it evaporate out of the water.

These days, many municipalities use chloramines instead which do not evaporate.

If you are not using dechlor I'd do a 180 degree turnaround and say frequent tiny water changes are better.


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

i'll find some prime and order it today!!!!!!



DJRansome said:


> I have never (except in books written years ago) read or heard of anyone who says it is unnecessary to use dechlor unless you have a private well.
> 
> Between this forum and others I belong to, I've heard horror stories of people forgetting the dechlor and killing the entire tank, or doing a whole fish room and skipping one tank accidentally. Makes me glad I have a well, one less mistake I can make.
> 
> ...


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

On the dechlorinator issue, I will say this. I don't use dechlorinator for the most part.

Not using dechlorinator is risky - a risk most people aren't willing to take. Some people, however, believe that some chlorinated water is "good" in one respect - tolerance. If the fish can build up a tolerance to small amounts of chlorinated water - they may do better adjusted for when they are put into a new tank (of a new owner).

This is more of a practice that someone selling fish might do.

I recommend that people use dechlorinator - as I used to do. Over the past 2.5 years, I've slowly "converted" my fish to not using dechlorinators.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Brian, your city uses chloramines and you do weekly 50% changes straight from the tap?

I apologize, I didn't even know that was possible.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I think the biggest concern for me would be this....

My fish might tolerate the water as it is on an ordinary day - without dechlorinator...

But what happens when they increase the amount of chemicals they use (or add new ones) due to heavy rainfall or problems with the current water supply?

I, too, have heard of those who lost an entire tank of fish because of not using a dechlorinator. A friend of mine never used one, and spent a huge amount of money on some wild fish. The water company made changes to their treatment regimen, and she lost the whole tank within 2 hours of a water change.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

This is part of the reason I stay away from wilds, though, unless they have been in someones tank for at least 2-3 months (the longer the better).

I've had my bad experiences with citites that dump in the chlorine too much - and dealt with wilds in that city. Long story short - lost almost all the wilds. :? We've moved to a small town that hardly puts anything in the water - almost as good as well water. :thumb: If the water wasn't as good as it is - I probably wouldn't be doing the amount of waterchanges I'm doing, at the volumes I'm doing. The risk would be too great for me.


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

yeah i've ordered a lot of it. better to buy in bulk. anyway i'm just going to use it. so far i've done good with cost of fish but i've put so much time into them and my goal as everyones should be going in is to not lose one. at least do to my negligence. the way i see it is if you don screw up and you take care of the water and feed a proper diet with the right species and numbers with ample hiding places its not a unreasonable goal. I think thats the only thing that i've been skimping at so i'm done fiddling with fate and not going to cut the corners there where i'm anal about everything else. everytime i see an article with someone losing fish it seems like the outcome is always their fault. i dont see God striking down and killing our cichlids!.... :lol:


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

I'm really glad to see that you will be using dechlorinator. I have well water with no chlorine but still use it anyway. I started out using Start Right by Jungle but now also use Prime by Seachem because everyone spoke so highly of it and a little goes a long way (1capful treats 50g. of water where with Start Right, 1 capful treats 10g.). I'm not sure about Prime, it doesn't say on the bottle, but the Start Right claims to neutralize harmful heavy metals (I have some iron in my water, not sure if that applies or not) and also claims to add beneficial electrolytes. They both say they help with the fishes slime coat so I switch back and forth between the two kinds. I might be wasteing money but I like to do the best I can by them. I really believe that New Life Spectrum is one of the best foods you can feed them too :thumb: I have LOTS of fish and have had very few deaths. I wish the same for you. Good luck.


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

Dewdrop said:


> I'm really glad to see that you will be using dechlorinator. I have well water with no chlorine but still use it anyway. I started out using Start Right by Jungle but now also use Prime by Seachem because everyone spoke so highly of it and a little goes a long way (1capful treats 50g. of water where with Start Right, 1 capful treats 10g.). I'm not sure about Prime, it doesn't say on the bottle, but the Start Right claims to neutralize harmful heavy metals (I have some iron in my water, not sure if that applies or not) and also claims to add beneficial electrolytes. They both say they help with the fishes slime coat so I switch back and forth between the two kinds. I might be wasteing money but I like to do the best I can by them. I really believe that New Life Spectrum is one of the best foods you can feed them too :thumb: I have LOTS of fish and have had very few deaths. I wish the same for you. Good luck.


yeah I'll be feeding NLS food as well once I run out of what i Have. i spent alot on it so I cant just throw it away. I figure they will be fine and then i will use the new life spectrum from there on out. saw some cubes of brineshrimp that are fed rich in spirulina*. they are suppose to be great for omnivores. i think i'll buy them and feed them once a week after awhile. a cube a week wont hurt and i'm hoping it will help them breed. plus there not just reg old brine. they were fed the right stuff....lol

i had water conditioner today by stresscoat that i used and i'm going to spend the 30 bucks and get like 2 or 4L's of the prime. I found it pretty cheap. just so i know if its a good deal or not where do you get yours and how much do you spend for how much of it. I plan to just buy in bulk. Most i found was the 4L bottle but you only save like 2 bucks from buying four instead of 2 so i'm gonna use the 2L bottle and then if it works well i'll use the rest. i think my fish liked it. the demasoni looked really well. i also had my g.f watching the water level while i was pruning plants and took to much out but they looked really deep blue and seemed to love everything.

where in W VA are you from? I'd love to come by if i'm ever in the area if you dont mind. I've found no matter how many tanks you see you'll never see to many or ones thats the same. I'm always up to learn something new


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Hi Speedfreak, Baltimore isn't all that far from me. I'm in the eastern panhandle of WV. Kinda in the bend of it lol. About 1/2 an hr. from Cumberland Md. and around an hr. from Winchester Va. I was planning a little trip to Baltimore this summer. Really want to see the big Aquarium there. What's the name of it? Just Baltimore aquarium?


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## SpeedFreak (Mar 14, 2008)

Dewdrop said:


> Hi Speedfreak, Baltimore isn't all that far from me. I'm in the eastern panhandle of WV. Kinda in the bend of it lol. About 1/2 an hr. from Cumberland Md. and around an hr. from Winchester Va. I was planning a little trip to Baltimore this summer. Really want to see the big Aquarium there. What's the name of it? Just Baltimore aquarium?


yeah its just the baltimore aquarium down the inner harbor. let me know in a pm and we can set up to get together. you can see my tank and we can get something to eat and then go to the aquarium if you'd like the company. i havent been since before i left for iraq so i'm due for a visit. its not to bad if you go fridays after 5.(price wise) send me a pm and tomorrow when i wake up i'll give you my personnel info...number and address and stuff. was going to post it here but i guess its better to do that in a pm. have a goodnight. talk to you tomorrow!
-shawn


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