# Are my water parameters OK?



## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

I've attached is a screen print of the spreadsheet I use to track my water parameters every week. A couple of questions/concerns I'd like to bounce off you all.
1. My Nitrates are climbing, to 40ppm this week, I've heard that 20-40ppm is normal, but wanted to get everyone's perspective. BTW, I do a 20% water change twice a week, which should help keep the levels down (I'm hoping).
2. My kH is 11 this week, is that getting too high?
3. I use Lake Tanganyika buffer from Seachem, which seems to increase the hardness, but the pH is hanging around 7.6 pH. What do you all think about the buffer?
4. I've almost come to the conclusion the API Ammonia test kit is faulty since it always reads way higher than the other 3 test kits I use, as you can see from the charts. This week the API kit said 0.5ppm, while all the others said essentially 0.0ppm.

Also, I've been cycling the tank since December (5-6 months)

All the best !!!


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

BTW, in the Video I mention the plants on the left are Java Ferns, but I've found out since then that they are *Anubias barteri v angustifolia*, which is going to be much harder to say !!!

Thanks for the help !!!


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## shellies215 (Jan 7, 2011)

I would increase the percentage of water changed. By looking at your chart the current W/C routine isn't keeping the nitrates from slowly creeping up.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

I like to keep nitrates at less than 20 ppm. So yep I would increase water changes. KH at 11 is no problem. I understand KH in the lake is well past 14 and closer to 20.
As to seachem buffer welll I guess its fine but I think you may be spending more than you need.
Simple bicarbonate of soda= Sodium bicarbonate= Sodium hydrogen carbonate= Baking soda will keep your KH and pH stable withpout expesive and risky commertial mixes you and I do not understand. I would aim for a higher pH than 7.8 and go for closer to 8 or 8.2 but its not that important as long as you avoid pHs of less than 7.5.
All the best James


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

What would you suggest I increase the percentage water change to. Maybe 40% twice a week?

Thanks for the help !!!


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## swk (Mar 16, 2010)

What's the ph and kh of your tap water?


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## Pizzle (May 24, 2011)

You could try putting the roots of a house plant into the tank which would use the Nitrate. I have read about people using Epipremnum aureum, commonly known as Pothos Ivy. It works well if you have a hang on back filter. I have a Pothos plant at home that I plan on putting in my filter. Just rinse all of the potting soil from the roots. And then only put the roots in the tank or filter. Then most people use some string and nails to attach the plant to the wall.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

swk said:


> What's the ph and kh of your tap water?


I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but the pH is low (like about 6) and the kH low also (I'm guessing around 6ppm as well)


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

FYI, I'm doing a 40% change, starting tonight, twice a week and we'll see how that works.

Thanks again !!!


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Be sure to buffer the new water before it goes into the tank. But then I guess you know that.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Yeah, I buffered the water, thanks for pointing that out ... pretty important !!!

Most importantly, the fish are still alive this morning and seem perky !!!

I was worried about doing a 40% change, since I've never done more than 20% before. Hopefully this will work, it seems like the easiest way to keep the nitrates in check.

I also cleaned the filter last night, with chlorine-free water, so that might have been part of the problem, since it was really dirty.

All the best and thanks for all the help !!!


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

As long as you get the pH about the same (usually by raising the KH) and have it at a temp close to the water in the tank you can do large waterchanges (I do up to 90% on some heavily stocked tanks with young). To be on the safe side with just one filter if you clean it you can add extra bacteria products (like Tetra safe start) and/or a short term ammonia and nitrite de tox like Seachem Prime (you may use this already for the chlorine/chloramines). Extra safe is to store and airate the new water for a few hours before using but I tend to only do that with new WC.

If your filter is filling with gunk and needs cleaning on a reg basis (I find this most with planted tanks for some reason) then you might look into adding a second one to keep the tank more stable. Then it has less effect if you need to clean one. Yep a biuld up of gunk in the filters will stop waterchanges from having as much effect as they usualy have as you have a bank of stuff that can add nitrates to the water (and I think keep the pH down)

Again hope I am not being too trite here.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks again for the advice, I truly appreciate it !!!

How often do you think I should clean the filter? I'd love to have a second one, but money's a little tight right now to do so. I'm planning on cleaning the filter every two months, is that too long? I've heard of some people going 6 months, which seems really extreme, since mine would clog up WAY before then. Maybe I should clean it every month? BTW, I have a Rena Filstar XP3 canister filter ... http://www.renacanisterfilters.com/rena-filstar-xp3-canister-filter/

Thanks again and have a wonderful day !!!


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Oh, FYI, I also use Prime when I do my water changes. Which seems to work great. I was so excited when my fry were still alive and perky this morning, even my smaller 3/8" long ones !!!


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Your stock is increasing in size and numbers so your filter is having to work ever harder to keep up. It will thus start to block more and more frequently. You can use a mechanical filter media at the start of it and clean that more regularly. Sooner or later you will need to crop young as there is only so much good high maintainance and increasing filtration can do. Otherwise without predators any breeding tank will eventually crash. You can try reducing feeding, increasing filtration and filter maintainance and water changes to pospone this but eventually with any breeding tank you need to remove some fish.

Sorry that sounds harsh and you may not be there yet but I think its wise to consider this now, even if it is just to plan for the future. I hear you can usually increase the effectiveness of powered filters by adding a pre filter (A sponge block on the intake that you clean each week or waterchange or any time it starts to block). To be honest I have little experience of this, I usually add extra filters.
If your not fussy about make, second hand filters are often for sale at at least UK cichlid auctions and websites at almost give away prices, as some folk convert to more centralised multi tank systems or leave the hobby.

I picked up about 10 fluvals 101-303s for Ã‚Â£20 all in off one guy.   (Who converted his fish tanks to run on low cost to run Matten filters)

All the best James


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks again for your words of wisdom !!!

I do have a sponge pre-filter on the inlet I clean every couple of weeks and that really helps, like you suggested.

I also plan on keeping the population in check by giving/selling many of the adolescents back to my local fish store. They give me $2-3 per fish that are about 1 1/2" long as a credit. I haven't been able to find out how often they breed, though ... I assume it's about every 3 months, I'll have to search some more. So far I have 2 breeding pairs on the left half of the tank and assume at some point I might have a breeding pair or pairs on the right side at some point too, which would be pretty neat. It's pretty cool how delineated their territories are in the tank.

Bottom line is it looks like I'm going to have to clean my filter more, eh?

Thanks again !!!


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

A couple of things to mention (besides how cool your chart is!)...

Doing 20% twice a week is not as efficient as doing 40% once a week. On a given week, your second water change is only pulling 80% "old" water, and 20% "new" water. You are better off doing larger water changes, and as you can see- your fish don't mind.

Think of it this way- If you have a pitcher of water tainted with food coloring... what's the quickest way of getting the color out? By dumping out the whole pitcher of course, giving it a good rinse, and chances are you'd get most of the dye out. If you were to take one cup of colored water out, and put a clean cup of water in- how many times would you have to do that to get the dye out? Meanwhile, your sister is putting more food color into the pitcher...

So, we shouldn't dump our tanks completely, but you must factor in dilution when figuring out the best water change habits for your tanks.

As far as the other chemistry- buy baking soda and some Epsom salt. I suggest that Sea Chem is making way too much money on their buffers. There are enough trace elements in fish food and tap water not to worry too much about them. I'm not sure what the distiction between dH and gH is on your chart- but general hardness should be a bit higher, which the Epsom salt will fix.

My tanks get 75% water changes almost every week. I use baking soda to raise pH and KH (my water needs about 1 TBS per 10 gallons), and Epsom salt to raise GH (1 tsp per 10 gallons). Your water will need a different dose, but you can get that figured out easily enough. I like Prime or ChlorAmX for water conditioners... My method to avoid shocking the fish with such large water changes is to predissolve the dose of salt, soda, and conditioner in a cup of warm water, and add it as I'm refilling the tank. I use a hose from the nearest faucet, and match the temperature with my hand. With ~8 tanks running, I'm not too fussy about measuring anything exactly.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

triscuit said:


> A couple of things to mention (besides how cool your chart is!)...
> 
> Doing 20% twice a week is not as efficient as doing 40% once a week. On a given week, your second water change is only pulling 80% "old" water, and 20% "new" water. You are better off doing larger water changes, and as you can see- your fish don't mind.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the words of experience !!! I've upped my water changes to ~45% twice a week and it's dropped my Nitrates down to about 15ppm (from ~40ppm), with my first re-test, as of yesterday (it may go down further with subsequent changes). With regard to Seachem, I just bought another bucket of buffer, so I'll use that up first, then try out the Epsom salt you've suggested (I like the idea of pre-dissolving in warm water first ... good idea !!!) . BTW, I also use Prime as a conditioner and so far so good.

I've now had my third batch of fry on Sunday, for a total of about 40 fry. The broods are pretty small right now, since they're their first ones. My oldest fry are about 1" long now already and my smallest/newest about 3/8" long. Pretty fun to watch them grow.

Also, with regard to gH vs. dH (German Hardness) ... for gH I use the API test kit, with the counting the number of drops to change the color, and the dH I have an electronic meter (http://www.marinedepot.com/controll...oint_conductivity_monitor_information-ap.html) and that supposedly measures dH.

CONVERSION TO OTHER SCALES OF HARDNESS
33 microSiemens = 17.9ppm
33 microSiemens = 1dH (German Ã‚Â° hardness)
1dH = 17.9ppm

Thanks again and all the best to everyone !!!


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

I just thought you might want to know that the advice given has resulted in my Nitrates dropping from about 40ppm to about 7.5pmm. I've been doing 50% water changes twice a week for a few weeks now and it's making all the difference in the world.

Thanks and all the best to everyone !!!


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

olliesshop said:


> I just thought you might want to know that the advice given has resulted in my Nitrates dropping from about 40ppm to about 7.5pmm. I've been doing 50% water changes twice a week for a few weeks now and it's making all the difference in the world.
> 
> Thanks and all the best to everyone !!!


Don't like my nitrates to get over 20ppm - usually try to keep mine around 10ppm.

20% wc twice per week should be plenty to keep nitrates down. If not, you need to find out why and correct that problem. 50% is too much at one time! And twice per week at 50% is way too much. That should not be necessary to keep your nitrates lower. Do you vac weekly? Do you have waste hidden under large rocks? How often do you clean out your filter?

A consisent pH of 8.2 would be wonderful for your Tangs.

I have found API test kits to be excellent provide they have not exceeded their shelf life.

Russ


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Razzo said:


> 20% wc twice per week should be plenty to keep nitrates down. If not, you need to find out why and correct that problem. 50% is too much at one time! And twice per week at 50% is way too much.


I heartily disagree. :wink: 

There's nothing wrong with changing out 50-75% of your tank water, provided you match water parameters. Needing to change out that much to maintain NO3 at less than 10ppm is pretty normal in my experience. Particularly in this case where nitrates got too high, frequent large water changes are the only way to return to high water quality.

I applaud anyone who can keep a well stocked tank with low nitrates- keep in mind that natural lakes that are highly eutrophic (and non-point source polluted) still have NO3 below 5ppm. Most lakes that you'd swim or fish in have nitrates less than 2ppm.

So, sure- 20ppm is a reasonable goal, but 10 is better. :thumb:


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

triscuit said:


> ...So, sure- 20ppm is a reasonable goal, but 10 is better. :thumb:


I agree, 10ppm is better. Mine are usually 10ppm or a little less after my water changes.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

10ppm is good, but if you have a planted tank you don't want to go lower.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks for all the great advice again !!!

Yeah, it seems the general consensus on this site is that the more water changes the better, within reason of course. I have one of those hoses that make the water changes really easy (and I use Prime), so it's just a matter of waiting (it usually takes me about 2 hours per change, including my two Daphnia tanks).

Also, since I have a heavily planted tank I'll try to manage the Nitrates around 10ppm, per your advice. I clean out my filter once a month, otherwise it seems to get to clogged up. The one thing I don't do is vacuum too regularly, do not disturb the fish (especially when they're breeding) ... I'm sure there's much to debate on that, but my theory is I'm hoping the plants can use the waste as additional fertilizer.

BTW, I have about 50 fish now, including all the fry (including 7 adults)

All the best to everyone !!!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If your nitrates are much above 15ppm then the plants are not using all the nitrates being held in your substrate and a weekly vacuuming will help. Surface vac for the rooted areas, and deep vac where plant roots don't have the gravel completely locked up.

I have not found vacuuming disturbs breeding in my Tangs. I just vacuum around the nest areas when new fry are present.

I have had planted tanks with zero nitrates, even without water changes. That's how I know problems develop if you let the nitrates drop below 10ppm. :lol:


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

DJRansome said:


> 10ppm is good, but if you have a planted tank you don't want to go lower.


I haven't done plants yet. I should try. I want to add some to my kilesa tanks.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

I just remembered, I forgot to mention I sold my two 8" long Plecos about 3 weeks ago, which where creating, obviously, a ton of waste. I'm wondering if part of my Nitrate reduction might be due to their lack of waste creation? Since in reality, I also have so many rocks covering the bottom it's almost impossible to vacuum anyways.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, in advance, for any additional insights ...


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Razzo said:


> DJRansome said:
> 
> 
> > 10ppm is good, but if you have a planted tank you don't want to go lower.
> ...


BTW, I've had great luck with http://www.aquariumplants.com and have found, at least with the hard water I have, that my Anubias Barteri v Angustifolia, Anubias Hastifolia and Amazon Swords have done really well. I also use Flourish Excel daily and monthly TOTAL pellet fertilizer ... http://www.aquariumplants.com/AquariumPlants_com_s_own_SUBSTRATE_VITALIZATION_p/fert.htm

I hope this helps a little ... all the best


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

olliesshop said:


> I just remembered, I forgot to mention I sold my two 8" long Plecos about 3 weeks ago, which where creating, obviously, a ton of waste. I'm wondering if part of my Nitrate reduction might be due to their lack of waste creation? Since in reality, I also have so many rocks covering the bottom it's almost impossible to vacuum anyways.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks, in advance, for any additional insights ...


Plecos do create a lot of waste - getting rid of them may have helped.

Waste will find places to accumulate and under rocks is a typical. You may want to plan to move rocks and vacuum if you just can't get a handle on the nitrates. I realize opinions on the quantity of water change differ. All I can say is that my nitrates stay low with a 25 to 35% weekly water change and I don't think I under feed.

Hope that helps.

Russ


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Advice well taken !!!

Thank you all !!!


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

Prime will cause a false ammonia reading on your api test kit.Prime works great though!!

I do 40-50% water changes every 7-10 days in my Adult/breeder tanks depending on fish load.If it takes 2 water changes a week to keep the nitrates down, there are either too many fish or overfeeding.I hear from many people that overloading a tank is fine as long as you do massive/many wc but you have to think when a problem happens such as a power outage,the overloaded tank will have a much larger ammonia spike and not enough 02.

Adding another filter will not help with Nitrates.Getting rid of the big plecos was the best thing for sure.If you want an algae eater that does not get that big get a bushynose pleco.


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

dmiller328 said:


> Prime will cause a false ammonia reading on your api test kit. Prime works great though!!
> 
> I do 40-50% water changes every 7-10 days in my Adult/breeder tanks depending on fish load.If it takes 2 water changes a week to keep the nitrates down, there are either too many fish or overfeeding.I hear from many people that overloading a tank is fine as long as you do massive/many wc but you have to think when a problem happens such as a power outage,the overloaded tank will have a much larger ammonia spike and not enough 02.
> 
> Adding another filter will not help with Nitrates.Getting rid of the big plecos was the best thing for sure.If you want an algae eater that does not get that big get a bushynose pleco.


So that's why my Ammonia is so high on my API test kit. I have 4 Ammonia testing kits I've bought to double-check, just in case and the API will always be in the 0.5-1.0ppm range, while the others are 0.0-0.1ppm ... Thank you !!! I've been trying to figure that our for months.

On the Nitrates, I'll see where they stabilize ... I'm betting I'll be able to back off my water changes, though.

This is such a great site ...


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

I just checked my water parameters yesterday and my Nitrates stayed at about 7.5ppm, with doing 45% water change twice a week. I think I'm going to try a weekly water change and see how much of a difference that makes in my Nitrates, since it sounds like (with advice from this site) that for my live plants, my Nitrates should be more about 15ppm. My plants are doing well, but they can always do better.

Any thoughts?

All the best ...


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

50% once a week should be enough. If your plants look good with that, I wouldn't worry too much about your nitrate level. The only tanks I see with zero nitrates are heavily planted ones, where any nitrate produced is quickly assimilated by the plants.

Now- it's time to sit back and enjoy your hard work! opcorn:


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

triscuit said:


> 50% once a week should be enough. If your plants look good with that, I wouldn't worry too much about your nitrate level. The only tanks I see with zero nitrates are heavily planted ones, where any nitrate produced is quickly assimilated by the plants.
> 
> Now- it's time to sit back and enjoy your hard work! opcorn:


I hope once a week is enough, since I do have a relatively heavily planted tank ... it sure is more fun watching them than changing the water !!!

Thanks ...


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

24Tropheus said:


> I hear you can usually increase the effectiveness of powered filters by adding a pre filter (A sponge block on the intake that you clean each week or waterchange or any time it starts to block).


I'm not sure about effectivness, but what this does is keep some of the gunk from getting in your canister. If you look at the big nitrogen cycle picture... any time you feed the tank, you're putting nitrogen into the cycle. when you have nitrates and you do a water change, you're taking nitrogen out of the cycle. There are lots of things in the tank absorbing or eating nitrogen (plants, fish), but when parts of plants die off and decay, they release that nitrogen. Likewise when fish respirate or pee, they release it directly as ammonia. when they poop, that decays into ammonia.

So any organic matter that makes it into your canister filter will get converted to nitrates. You shouldn't see the more toxic ammonia or nitrite because your cannister is doing a bang-up job of converting those to the less toxic nitrate (that's it's job, after all).

If you put a prefilter on the canister intake, though, and clean it off every time you do a water change (maybe get 2 prefilters and just swap them, that way you can clean the other at your leisure), then you *remove* the nitrogen from the cycle, by removing the organic matter before it has a chance to decay. All the filtration in the world cannot remove nitrogen (denitrators aside, as they tend to be finicky beasts). Even a plant filter or algal turf filter isn't really removing the nitrogen -- you do that when you trim the plants or scrape off some of the algae. The only time the total nitrogen ever goes down is when you physicaly remove it (water change, trimming plants, fishing out a dead fish before it decays, cleaning your prefilters, cleaning out your cannister, etc).

There are lots of approaches to keeping your nitrate low, whether it's limit the nitrogen input (feed less -- which is often the natural outcome of a lighter stocking level), increase the nitrogen removal (more water changes, more frequent filter maintenance) or storing the nitrogen off into plants for later removal(algal turf, planted 'fuge, or even just a heavily planted tank). All are equally valid, and all require varying amounts and different sorts of work.

Sorry for writing a book here... I'll get off my soap (or is that nitrogen?) box.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)

<edit> LOL, I should learn to make sure there aren't 2 more pages of posts before I reply to something from page 1... looks like everything's under control and my rant was moot, so apologies for the bandwidth! </edit>


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

Rick_Lindsey said:


> 24Tropheus said:
> 
> 
> > I hear you can usually increase the effectiveness of powered filters by adding a pre-filter (A sponge block on the intake that you clean each week or water-change or any time it starts to block).
> ...


Excellent Summary ... Thanks !!!


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

FYI, just to let everyone know, I've been doing 45% water changes once a week, instead of twice a week, for about 3 weeks now. That, combined with the Plecos being gone, have dropped my Nitrates down to about 5ppm last week !!! Pretty amazing, since they were 40ppm about 2 months ago.

Also, I have about 40 Neolamprologus Brichardi in total, ranging in size from about 1/2" to 3 1/2", with 7 of them being adults. They haven't bred since April/May so I assume they've determined that's enough fish for my 125 gallon tank ... amazing how nature works.

So my plan is to keep with weekly 45% water changes, keep track of my water parameters, and see how it goes.

Thanks for all the help !!!


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## olliesshop (Nov 21, 2010)

I figured it would be a good idea to do an update to this post with my latest Water Parameter data. Since I now have about 200 fish (including about 100 fry and the rest being about 3/4 adolescents) and the parameters are changing (e.g. Ammonia and Nitrates are obviously going up). I plan on selling about half the fish (the adolescents) to my LFS, which hopefully will bring things back into check ... although I have a few questions:

1. What should be the maximum Ammonia and Nitrate levels in the tank? (FY, I'm currently changing 50% of the water twice a week)
2. Is there a best Ammonia and Nitrate test kit folks would recommend? 
- For ammonia I'm currently using Salifert, Seachem test and Seachem Alert (sticks on side of tank). There is such a huge variance in the results, so I'd really like to know which one of those or others I should be using for Ammonia. 
- For Nitrates I use an API kit and that seems to be reliable. Do folks have a favorite Nitrate tester?

FYI my parameters are running as follows:
- kH 9
- gH 7
- dH 15.9
- ph 7.47
- Ammonia (0 Salifert, 3 Seachem kit, 0 Seachem Alert)
- Nitrite 0
- Nitrate 10
- Oxygen 8
- CO2 9.15

The fish seem to be doing fine with these parameters (currently have 5 batches of fry growing), but my test kits are about a year and a half old and in need of replacement soon, So I wanted to get some expert opinions on what brand(s) are the best.

Thank you very much for any advice !!! :fish:


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