# green terror breeding



## willy11

hey i have a male green terror in my 55 gallon, he is only about 8cm maybe, i went to the pet shop to look for a female for him so i could experince them mate andand try my had at fry raising,so i had a look at the gt's at the lfs and picked one that i thought was a female, when i got home and eventually put her in the tank she swam down into the tank and went straight to the male and immediatley he started shimmering in front of her, the only prblem is she(well im pretty sure its a girl, it would know if its a female wouldnt it?) isnt taking much notice of him and was too busy checkinh out her new surroundings, but the problem is she is only about 4 or 5 cm, iv read that they dont sexually mature till there about 3or4 inches, is this true? and is there anything that i could do to help the mating process along?


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## TheFishGuy

Just keep the water clean and keep an eye on him so he doesn't get too aggressive... That's pretty much it. They aren't too complicated


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## oldcatfish

Green Terrors aren't the easiest fish to breed. You don't really have to do anything special for them...but the males can be extremely aggressive with unresponsive females. They often kill an unwilling female. Have a divider ready!

And yes, they usually don't breed until they are at least 3-4 inches long (not counting the tail fin).


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## willy11

hey thanks for the reply, i havent noticed him getting aggresive (yet?), but im sure it will happen if she dosent take any notice, i will go get a divider asap, i think she is interested though cos she seems to shimmer every now and then but she's just not big enough yet  , just a matter of time, thanks guys


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## willy11

ok so when i got home from work today went to the fish tank to see how they were doing and give them a feed, and as i was watching them eat i noticed the female not coming to the top and just hanging round the mid water around a piece of drift wood, and all of a sudden i noticed EGGS!!, on a flat rock i put in there cos i though it would be a good breeding area and turns out it was, but now she wont let anyone near them including the male is this normal? plus how long does it take for the eggs to hatch if theie fertilized? and how do you know if there fertilized? they are a slight yellowy colour atm, maybe i miss understood the maturing age? what would it be in cm? cos she would only be 4or5cm including the tail fin.. i cant wait to see if they hatch now opcorn:


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## BRANT13

Its normal for a female to sometimes not let the male hang around....sounds like ure eggs are fertilized....it may take like 3 or 4 days untill the eggs hatch and then a couple more before theyre up and swimming....congrats =D>


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## willy11

SWEET!!  im pretty excited i wasnt expecting this to happen for a while yet? waht should i do when they hatch?
what do i need to get to feed them? :-? 
i think i might get myself a divider too soon?


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## BRANT13

The parents will do a great job of feeding them...probably better than we can....if u havent yet i would put some pantyhoes or something similar over the filter intakes so the little guys dont get sucked up.....and yes that is a quick formation of a pair...u got lucky :wink:

BTW if u plan on saving the fry juss keep an eye out because the parents will start eating them when theyre getting ready to spawn again....just siphon them out into a bucket and put them in a different tank.


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## willy11

ok thats good, when should i(or need to?) start feeding them?
how often do they breed though? 
i know the guy at the pet store said it could take any where from a week to a couple of months, mine took one day with just the one female :thumb:..
could i just divide the tank for the fry cos i dont have another tank running atm, i stripped it down a couple weeks ago? 
thanks for the help  , would appreciate any other tips or info aswell?


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## BRANT13

well breeders dont work very well at keeping them to one side when they are small, but will work well enough considering you dont have another tank cycled for them.....it may take a month or more before they begin to breed again because of the strain on the female ...she needs to gain her strength back before she feels she can do it all over again....which at this time the male might harrass her trying to mate again when she is not ready...so having a divider handy in case the male gets too aggressive is always a good idea....the fry will eat anything once theyre roughly a month old......crushed up flakes work nice for feeding fry.....u may even notice some of them begging to feed on what u feed the rents....what are you feeding them BTW? anything else u want to know just ask.


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## willy11

i thought that might have been a challenge keeping them to one side when they are soo small? 
ok a month i can handle, il see what i can russle up in the way of a tank by then. 
il have to keep an eye on them then so i know the male isnt harrassing her tooo much.. thats good to hear about the feeding, i am feeding them frozen blood worms every couple of days roughly just for a treat other wise i have a small cichlid pellet, and some tetra colour granules, and ultra plus flakes, on a varied schedule just to mik there diet up.. they seem to love it? i have three gouramis, in there atm which are doing quite well for dither fish they are fast and agile, but the male gt is growing fast.. theyre in a 4x18x18 too by the way, hoping to get a 6x2x2 soon :-? anything else i should know?


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## BRANT13

gouramis huh?....crazy theyve lasted this long even since they spawned...i find that giant danios work as the best dither for me....nice hard bodied fish and very quick when needed.....be sure to keep up on ure water changes since u will have many more fish in there than before with all the new fry....not that they add much to the bioload being that they are too small, but JIC....other than that i think ull be alright....i had a big old 9 inch male GT before i got rid of him and he loved the hikari biogold plus....im not a big fan of tetra food....id stick with Hikari and NLS pellets over flakes as their main diet (i only use flakes for fry) and give them ure treats like bloodworms or brine shrimp once or twice a week....but thats just my preferance im sure u keep em well fed :wink: any more questions just ask.


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## willy11

yeah thats what i had in my tank to when i started it, and then got the gt male, he hasnt been too bad though, they try and stay out of his way though :lol: , i will have a look for some danios when im at the lfs looking for a divider next.. oh and the hikiari food too, the flakes and tetra stuff was for the gouramis but the gt just seems to eat anything i out in there even if i try to seperate it? ok thanks for the help il keep you posted on how its going too and try and get some photos up, but have lost the cord from camera to computer so it might be a while? talk soon :thumb:


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## BRANT13

sounds great look forward to seein some pics GL :fish:


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## willy11

just an update, i woke up this morning and went down to check on my gt's, it has been about four days since they spawned so i was hoping for something exciting, i noticed yesterday that the female was shift sand away from her rock and starting to dig a pit near the base of some fake plants, so this morning as i look at the rock where the eggs were laid i noticed the female had moved all the aggs of the rock and into the pit at the base of the fake plants, its kinda in a hard stop to see them atm because there is a driftwood piece in front of it and from the side you can just see the pile of eggs, at least they're safe there though. i also noticed that she was digging another pit further behind the DW too? opcorn:

my first question is, is it normal for the female to move the eggs? or is it because they have hatched and just still look like eggs to me? 
when should i expect some wrigglers too? 
will gourami's eat the fry?


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## TheFishGuy

They dig pits to move their young to new clean ones. Apparently it's easier to make a new pit than it is to keep one clean. More than likely the eggs are hatched and that's why they're in the first pit


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## willy11

really, ok thats good im hoping they will start to resemble a small fish within a few days..
cheers :thumb:


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## TheFishGuy

Three days eggs, three days wrigglers, then slowly start to free swim


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## willy11

update..

eggs are now two day old wrigglers and mother has moved them to three different pits so far..

i have pics but they arent very good, still getting the hang of aquarium photography..

http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1241.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1284.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1307.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1290.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1298.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1304.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1321.jpg
enjoy opcorn:


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## TheFishGuy

Very nice! Congrats!

Just do your regular maint. and if you'd like to guarantee the development of your fry get ahold a person named Dan Woodland. He sells De-Encapsulated Brine Shrimp in one pound cans. One pound would last you forever. Pm me if you need his contact info.


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## willy11

whats the difference with de-encapsulated brine shrimp? unless hes in australia, i dont think il get any? can you get brine shrimp from lsf? i got some photos today the wrigglers are starting to look like tiny fish, they have got eyes and kinda have a tail? plus she has moved them to another pit too today, there are about five or six pits around the rock now and the fry are right near the front of the tank so you can see them soo easily.. 
cheers willy :thumb:


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## BRANT13

Yes u can get Brine Shrimp from most any LFS.....look in the freezer they usually have frozen individual blocks that come in a pack u just leave in ure frezer and thaw in declorinated water when feeding.


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## willy11

ok thanks would it be better getting frozen or freeze dried or something else? sorry for all the questions there's just so much i want to know and not enough time :-?


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## BRANT13

i like the frozen personally....i just pop out a cube and let it sit in some dechlorinated water untill all the way thaw and pour into the tank....my mbuna love im sure ure GT's will as well.


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## willy11

yeah that sounds like a good idea, thanks for the help


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## BRANT13

np keep us posted with any other questions.


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## willy11

no worries will do :thumb:


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## TheFishGuy

The frozen brine shrimp you're talking about is nothing like De-encapsulated brine shrimp.

Frozen brine shrimp is full grown brine shrimp. Bigger than the fry them selves and will do nothing but foul the water as the fry will not be able to eat it.

De-encapsulated brine shrimp is smaller than grains of sand and easily eaten and digested by the smallest fry. For lack of a better term it looks like red powder.

The reason I mention it is because it's much easier to feed it that newly hatched baby brine shrimp. There's no need to set up a brine shrimp hatchery with de-encapsulated brine and there's no mess.

Frozen Brine shrimp, not what you want:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... catid=8132

De-encapsulated brine shrimp:


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## Chromedome52

Actually, they do sell frozen baby brine, usually in the pack of small cubes. However, I don't like it as it still fouls the water faster than using the decapsulated eggs or live bbs.


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## oldwheat

I feed live moina 'japanese daphnia' which gives better growth than bbs but admittedly, can be a PITA to keep going. I'm getting much better at it's culture, however.


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## BRANT13

i wasnt aware the brine for for the fry my appologies....i thought it was for the rents.


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## willy11

thats cool BRANT13, ok so where could i get some of this de-encapsulated brine shrimp from in australia, and how is it? also on a scale of 1 to 10, what would be the difficulty of setting up a hatchery of brine shrimp or, the live moina 'japanese daphnia'?

i have some more photos as well of the fry free swimming now.. will up load soon


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## BRANT13

Hatcherys are easy there a few on this site as well. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/d ... tchery.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/d ... tchery.php

as far as the decapsulated stuff i have not the slightest clue where to find it in Australia as i do not live there....maybe call around to a few LFS and see if they have it.


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## willy11

ok so the little buggers are quite energetic atm, swimming every where just about, they still stay in a group though, they are about three days free swimming and iv had to remove thee three gouramis because they were trying to eat the fry and were getting attacked by both parents alot.. anyway i have some pics of the growing process of the fry hope you like? opcorn:

the male 
http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1358.jpg

the female
http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1321.jpg

eggs just laid
http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1298.jpg

just hatched
http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1304.jpg

almost free swimming
http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1369.jpg

free swimming
http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1393.jpg

close up
http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... CF1389.jpg

let me know what you think i have more photos too with an underwater cam :thumb:


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## BRANT13

very cool :thumb: ....lets see the others :wink:


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## willy11

will do il get them up within a couple of days


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## BRANT13

next time just copy the image txt it gives u in photobucket and itll put the pics right on here :wink:


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## willy11

P7300121.jpg


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## willy11




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## BRANT13

under the pic in photobucket there a img tab that u can just copy and paste


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## willy11




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## willy11

hey brant it wasnt working properly so il just add the link again..

http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... 300123.jpg

http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... 300129.jpg

http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... 300125.jpg

http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... 300124.jpg

http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... 300121.jpg

http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... 300119.jpg

http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... 300115.jpg

http://s614.photobucket.com/albums/tt22 ... 300111.jpg

all from underwater camera too opcorn:


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## BRANT13

no it deffinately worked......wow those guys really are youngins...how big did you say they were again?


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## willy11

so it did work after all? some reason it wasnt up loading them before?
the parents (male)is about 9-10cm, female is about 4.5-6cm and babies and about 2-3mm
the fry are growing so quickly thay have doubled in size in a couple of days.. cant wait till they are actually a baby fish :fish:


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## BRANT13

=D>


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## willy11

thanks, im quite surprised that they actually bred, i was under the impression that they do not reach maturity till 4in not including the tail? mine is def not that big, plus how quickly they paired up as well :thumb:


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## BRANT13

Yes id say you got very lucky and should expect a very good pair out of the two....does the female let the male guard the fry as well?....or does she give em a chase when he gets near.


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## willy11

at the start when they were just laid she used to flare up at him but never really get too aggersive and chase him away thouhg, he would leave on his terms i thought? no though she lets him guard them aswell now that they are free swimming, i seen him the other day going around the tank and picking up the strays and bringing them back to the group, plus he is getting a little more protective of them because when you come close to the glass to look at the fry he'll come right up near your face as if he is trying to block you from looking :-? ..


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## BRANT13

LOL this is normal....be extra careful of ure fingers if goin into the tank....although they are quite small when theyre bigger theyll chomp :wink:


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## willy11

lol il keep that in mind, i was surprised thay didnt attack me when i had the underwater cam in the water? they were proly abit more interested in the big shiny thing tough  .. cant wait till they're bigger :drooling:


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## BRANT13

and bigger they will get :thumb:


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## madjecks

This is an awesome thread first off

second, gj on the sucessful spawning


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## willy11

hey madjecks, thanks for the input glad you like the thread, il will update on the fry when something changes and as they grow.. and thanks on the spawning comment too :thumb:


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## willy11

UPDATE 

sorry for the late update iv been pretty busy lately, first up an update on the tank.
i have upgraded to two eheim 2213's both with purigen in them because i have had quite bad tannin staining and it works a treat i have had them set up for about three days and the tannins are basically gone already.
i have also added a black background to the back of the tank which i think looks much better than the wall behind it 

so the fry would be free swimming now for probably two to three weeks, and have grown quite considerably, they have also gained more :fish: features like eyes and kind of fins? the mother is still gaurding them quite fiercely na dis now not letting the male near them or herself, when ever she see's him she will try and chase him away even if he isnt near the fry..
the male is also starting to get a little frisky again, when the female comes to chase him away he will sometimes start to shimmer at her, which has led to him losing a few scales on his right side(pics to come), i dont think its too bad atm but im hoping he will stop soon or i will have to divide the tank?
he spends most his time up the other end of the tank now with the catfish's. 
Q: at what point should or can i remove the fry?
can they be placed in a frysaver or should i just leave them be till they are bigger? 
also how long after removing the fry will the mother forget about them and not attack anything in sight?

ok i have a few more pics, forgive me if they are not the best 

just waiting for them to upload


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## willy11

UPDATE 

sorry for the late update iv been pretty busy lately, first up an update on the tank.
i have upgraded to two eheim 2213's both with purigen in them because i have had quite bad tannin staining and it works a treat i have had them set up for about three days and the tannins are basically gone already.
i have also added a black background to the back of the tank which i think looks much better than the wall behind it 

so the fry would be free swimming now for probably two to three weeks, and have grown quite considerably, they have also gained more :fish: features like eyes and kind of fins? the mother is still gaurding them quite fiercely na dis now not letting the male near them or herself, when ever she see's him she will try and chase him away even if he isnt near the fry..
the male is also starting to get a little frisky again, when the female comes to chase him away he will sometimes start to shimmer at her, which has led to him losing a few scales on his right side(pics to come), i dont think its too bad atm but im hoping he will stop soon or i will have to divide the tank?
he spends most his time up the other end of the tank now with the catfish's. 
Q: at what point should or can i remove the fry?
can they be placed in a frysaver or should i just leave them be till they are bigger? 
also how long after removing the fry will the mother forget about them and not attack anything in sight?

ok i have a few more pics, forgive me if they are not the best 

just waiting for them to upload


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## willy11

picas





































just thought id add this









full tank









missing scales


















enjoy opcorn:


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## DeadFishFloating

Hey *willy11*,

Well I only have experience with dwarf acaras, but your expereinces sound very similar to mine. I usually pull my free swimming fry once the female drives off the male. This usually occurs around day 4 or 5 with my dorsigera.

I have read quite a few posts where people say that larger cichlids can easily bite fry through the mesh of fry savers.

I first move my fry to a 7.5 gallon fry tank, 18 inches by 9 inches, and only have a 25 watt heater and a small spunge filter in the bare bottom tank. I feed the fry 3 times a day on a 75% / 25% mixture live baby brine shrimp and a first bites flake food (it's like a fine powder). I also do a 50% water change between the 2nd and 3rd feedings every day.

Once my fry reach 1cm TL they are moved to a 15 gallon growout tank, 24 inches by 12 inches, with a 50 watt heater and 2 small spunge filters in the bare bottom tank. I continue with 3 feedings a day, but change the last feeding the only dry food. I also start using a larger sized flake in the mixture with live baby brine shrimp.

After two weeks in the grow out tank I cut back to one feeding of live food per day and introduce a very small pellet into the 3 feedings a day schedule. After two more weeks I cut out the live food altogether and cut back to two feedings per day. All this time I'm still doing a 50% water change per day. I'll also start adding in once per week a feeding of frozen spirulina brine shrimp.

Any way that's how I do things.


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## oldcatfish

I'd remove the fry now....things get touchy with GT's when the male wants to breed but the female doesn't. In my experience, that gets even worse as the fish get larger.

Before you do anything though....make a divider and have it ready. If you don't move the fry, you'll likely have the problem that I described. If you do move the fry, the female may "blame" the male and become aggressive. Keep a close watch on the pair for awhile.


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## willy11

hey deadfishfloating, that seems like quite alot of work, but on the other hand im sure it is doing the fry wonders for their development.
the problem i have is i havent got another tank set up atm, plus i dont have enough time to feed them three times a day. 
i shall remember those steps though for when i get another tank running to remove them to..

oldcatfish, i have a divider handy, iv been watching them pretty closely to whether the aggresion is getting worse or not? going to get a fry saver today from the lfs and see what other goodies i can grab  ?oh they arent really that big yet the male is only probably 10cmTL and the female would probably be half that size so i dont think they could get through a fry saver to easy at this point? (hopefully :lol: )


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## BRANT13

those fry are cute :wink: sorry havent been on in a few days


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## willy11

hey brant13, they look different now too, they have started to for some finage, and more defined features like the mouth and such, i will try and get some phots for you guys within a couple days


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## BRANT13

sounds good to me opcorn:


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## willy11

OK so i know this thread is almost a year old but i though i would add some pics of what they look like now, the parents that is.. the male has bred again but with a different female then with the first female again but i have not gotten any fry out from them, as i dont really ahve to time space or money.. plus im moving soon anyways.. the male is about 18cm now with the female being about 16, there is also another smaller female and male in there too now they are around 16cm too, have a look and let me know what you think?
i will try and add progress pics as the tank has grown??
















































































it does look different agin but i have no pics as yet


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## Gunn20

how are the africans getting along with the gt


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## willy11

fine mate hey, hes been in there for about a year now and not a prob at all, he even chases the GTs if they come into his area sometimes.. not all the time though.. the big fella still has right of way everywhere in the tank.. but yeah no troubles at all.. there is only one pecock in there too.. and three gouramis, a BN, a pictus cat, and a SEA, oh and two small empire gudgeos that have been in there for a few months now and the gts dont even bother trying to chase them to eat them?? :thumb:


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