# HELP Fronts iching



## jray3 (Aug 5, 2008)

hey im 16 and my mom owns the Local pet store and i love fish
so i had my step dad order me some fronts
i know its small but i keep 11 fronts in there most are under or at 3 while my 3 biggest are 
like 5 inches ever since they got here they have been itching on the ground 
and once in a while twitching mid-swim and are clampy-finned no matter what i try they wont stop itching or put their fins up
i have tryed NOX, clout, EM, copper, and tons of water changes after treatment 
and like bi-weekly but its really starting to frustrate me :-?


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## jray3 (Aug 5, 2008)

oh forgot to tell you the tank size its a 65


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

how long has the tank been set up? was it used for other fish prior to your frontosa group arriving? 
i would suggest to knock off all medications for now because your history is too confusing for an outsider to offer a good starting point with them in consideration.
start here: 1) water test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, gh, and kh. i know your mom knows this already, but good help starts at step #1, so post your results here. test your tap water too and post those results here also. 2) are any eating regularly? what food do you offer them.


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

My Frontosa are doing that sometimes as well? Have you noticed them head twitching, and snaking their bodies? It looks weird but Iâ€™ve always noticed fish do that from time to time, very occasionally I get them rubbing on rocks or sand. Iâ€™ve got a black shark that tends to do it more often. It looks like sometimes thieve got Itch, but Iâ€™m not sure. Also their fins are some what clamped from time to time, although they always perk up and become erect when I lift the lid to feed them. There are no visible signs of white spot either. Iâ€™m wandering maybe your problem if more serious, Iâ€™ve heard you can cure this in just 4 days by raising the temperature of your tank to around 82F and after this then treat with a copper solution?

Iâ€™m wandering do any of you more experienced Frontosa keepers out there see this behavior from time to time, maybe fish just do this sometimes when they try to sluff off old scales, or as a kind of preventative maintenance, is it a sign of stress? Heres a video link to youtube *** seen of Frontosa rubbing, watch the guy in the middle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCheHz8k ... re=related

Letâ€™s see if we can help this guy


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

lloyd said:


> how long has the tank been set up? was it used for other fish prior to your frontosa group arriving?
> i would suggest to knock off all medications for now because your history is too confusing for an outsider to offer a good starting point with them in consideration.
> start here: 1) water test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, gh, and kh. i know your mom knows this already, but good help starts at step #1, so post your results here. test your tap water too and post those results here also. 2) are any eating regularly? what food do you offer them.


Ditto...

I just want to add excessive scratching with frontosa is not normal and indicates you have a problem (as you already know). As lloyd suggestion, your water parameters are the 1st step.

Russ


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

karatejo said:


> ...Iâ€™m wandering do any of you more experienced Frontosa keepers out there see this behavior from time to time, maybe fish just do this sometimes when they try to sluff off old scales, or as a kind of preventative maintenance, is it a sign of stress? Heres a video link to youtube I've seen of Frontosa rubbing, watch the guy in the middle?...


Just curious, how big is your tank and how many fronts do you have in there?

How often does your front scratch like that? Are there any others that do that?

Russ


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## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

you tried 4 different med. and how do you know one did not work? what is your time frame of trying each med..

My suggestion:
Check your water parameter.
Let us know your tank setup and how long has it been running with fish before you added the frontosa. 11 frontosa can create a good bio-load for your filtation.


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

Razzo said:


> karatejo said:
> 
> 
> > ...Iâ€™m wandering do any of you more experienced Frontosa keepers out there see this behavior from time to time, maybe fish just do this sometimes when they try to sluff off old scales, or as a kind of preventative maintenance, is it a sign of stress? Heres a video link to youtube I've seen of Frontosa rubbing, watch the guy in the middle?...
> ...


Hello Razzo, I have an 150gal (UK) and I have around 10 Fronts of different sizes, the biggest is around 4-5" the smallest less than an inch at the mo. Just ordered some new ones recently and I was well p**d off cas I asked for around the 5" size and they all came dwon newly hatched, I mean they were all so small you could hardly see them! Anyway I also have 2 silver sharks, which I think are excellent for keeping the sand clean by the way cas they really eat sh*T, I also have a large silver dollar whom never even bothers the Fronts. I have seen them Itch only once in a blue moon. I have a red tail black shark which does it all the time tho. Also twitch there fins. My PH is always around 7.8. I just found out where I can now get Zaire BLue tho, as I have Burindi at the mo.

Thanks


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## Charles (Feb 25, 2003)

I don't think there is any fish that will eat waste from other fish. Please do tell us what size your tank, how long it has been setup, cycle, water parameter, etc.


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

Well re sharks, they take it all in churn it up a spit it out into more of a fine powder, my pump in flow thenn smashes all the little bits up even more and the rest then gets siphoned into the sump eventually. I hace ann 15ogal uk. PH 7.8 stable, no ammonia , nitrite. my nitrate is around 40ppm. which is well below accepted levels>


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

karatejo said:


> ...I have seen them Itch only once in a blue moon...


Good :thumb:

From the video, I was just hoping he didn't do that a lot.

Russ


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## Razzo (Oct 17, 2007)

karatejo said:


> Well re sharks, they take it all in churn it up a spit it out into more of a fine powder, my pump in flow thenn smashes all the little bits up even more and the rest then gets siphoned into the sump eventually. I hace ann 15ogal uk. PH 7.8 stable, no ammonia , nitrite. my nitrate is around 40ppm. which is well below accepted levels>


40 is about as high as I care to see mine get. I like mine lower.

Russ


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

jray3 said:


> hey im 16 and my mom owns the Local pet store and i love fish
> so i had my step dad order me some fronts
> i know its small but i keep 11 fronts in there most are under or at 3 while my 3 biggest are
> like 5 inches ever since they got here they have been itching on the ground
> ...


my apologies everyone, I think I stole this post and confused a lot of people  the original poster was jray3, and I was just trying to offer my help as I have seen mine doing this as well but not very often. Sorry once again


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## karatejo (Apr 10, 2003)

Razzo said:


> karatejo said:
> 
> 
> > Well re sharks, they take it all in churn it up a spit it out into more of a fine powder, my pump in flow thenn smashes all the little bits up even more and the rest then gets siphoned into the sump eventually. I hace ann 15ogal uk. PH 7.8 stable, no ammonia , nitrite. my nitrate is around 40ppm. which is well below accepted levels>
> ...


 Hi Razzo,

To be honest I think mine pretty much comes out of the tap that way, I come from a high farming area where the water is all fed from reseviors and I think a lot of Nitrates get into the waters from there although 40ppm is not considered high, it sais on my test kit. Woops apologies again, whilst writing this I just checked my test kit, it recomends that a nitrate level of below 40ppm but mine is actually testing around 10  soz mate

How would you get it lower outof the tap?


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## jray3 (Aug 5, 2008)

well i have thinned it out to 7 fronts all 7 stripe now
and 1 placidochromis phenochilus the fronts are about 2.5 inches with the placido about 5
they get along great and they stopped itching for a while 
it was just yeserday that i noticed only 1 did it and only 1 is still doing it 
but i do know all will do it if i dont do anything 
placido is fine. most amazing blue. all are eating 2 times a day and i feed thawed-out frozen hikari bloodworms i am gone for he day but will post my test results here tonight
in a week im getting a 125g and setting it up in my garage 
then getting some moba fry or wild caught mobas most likely fry thow cause my mom 
is broke and probably wont lend me the money for WC's haha 
anyone know were i can get good relible moba fry?

and on the meds
i tryed knox like 5 times full dosage and by 5 i mean 5 in a row skipping a day inbetween
or whatever it was
i medicated with clout for 1 full treatment 
and i also did copper for like 2 weeks
and copper is the only thing that stopped it for like 3 weeks to a month now its back
and i can sell them if i have to can treat them at the petstore and sell them there
and just use the 65 for my phenos which im getting 4 more females and a male next week


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## jray3 (Aug 5, 2008)

well i have thinned it out to 7 fronts all 7 stripe now
and 1 placidochromis phenochilus the fronts are about 2.5 inches with the placido about 5
they get along great and they stopped itching for a while 
it was just yeserday that i noticed only 1 did it and only 1 is still doing it 
but i do know all will do it if i dont do anything 
placido is fine. most amazing blue. all are eating 2 times a day and i feed thawed-out frozen hikari bloodworms i am gone for he day but will post my test results here tonight
in a week im getting a 125g and setting it up in my garage 
then getting some moba fry or wild caught mobas most likely fry thow cause my mom 
is broke and probably wont lend me the money for WC's haha 
anyone know were i can get good relible moba fry?

and on the meds
i tryed knox like 5 times full dosage and by 5 i mean 5 in a row skipping a day inbetween
or whatever it was
i medicated with clout for 1 full treatment 
and i also did copper for like 2 weeks
and copper is the only thing that stopped it for like 3 weeks to a month now its back
and i can sell them if i have to can treat them at the petstore and sell them there
and just use the 65 for my phenos which im getting 4 more females and a male next week
all the same size 5''


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## Countcocofang42 (Aug 22, 2015)

I have Cichlids and they rub on the ground and shake. This is a mating thing. nothing to worry about.


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