# Fish Room (Build And Design Of,)



## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

As I mentioned in another thread, I started clearing out a room in our basement that will become our fish room:



> _It's roughly an 11 1/2' x 17' room that is pretty much finished off (drywalled walls and ceiling), including carpet. There's also a roughly 4' x 8' hall or entryway leading into it and 4' x 5' alcove off the main area._


Some additional data:

The two foundation walls in this room are 8" thick, poured solid concrete, but not ICF (insulated concrete forms) ... these two exterior walls are below grade.

All walls - interior and exterior (and I think the ceiling, but I need to check to be sure) in the main area are insulated with pink fiberglass between the studs and finished in normal drywall (not cement board or green board)

The entire basement is HVAC conditioned space, and it is not damp or musty.

This particular room is fed by a single hot air duct (6" round pipe) in the ceiling and a single cold air return also in the ceiling, in the "dead" end of the room. It stays pretty warm, even in the winter (now that I figured out the hot air duct going to it had been shut off and opened that up) ... might be a little on the cool side in the summer with the AC running.

If necessary, due to humidity being a problem, I can install a bathroom fan on a humidity-sensing switch and vent to outside of the house.

Ceiling height in the main area is 89".

The entryway has an area for some built-in shelving - 3' wide x 18" deep - that can be used for storage, although I may need to cut and finish the actual shelves (not sure if I ever did that when the room was built)

Plan would be to repaint the entire room (including ceilings) with washable mildew-resistant paint.

There's about 10 electrical outlets in the room, but I don't think they are on their own circuit ... so probably need to wire them back to the panel and put them on their own breaker.



> _It's immediately adjacent to the plumbing from the main upstairs bathroom ... so I'll have easy access to water and drain lines._


The plumbing is actually in a closet off an adjacent room. The closet dimensions are roughly 4' (deep) x 5' (wide) and the floor is ceramic tile ... but no floor drain.

Plan is to cut a doorway in the wall from the fish room into the closet ... and will probably frame in the existing doorway (in the other room into the closet) and then drywall it off. Probably put in a utility sink as well.



> _Once I get all the junk moved out of it, I'll take some pics ..._


It will be a bit longer for the pics ... the room was being used for storage and was pretty much crammed full of junk.

I've managed to get about 75% of it out ... but the last 25% is going to take a little longer, as I need to clear space elsewhere to move it into. Hopefully, I'll have some help over the next couple of days to get that done.

Plan is to have most of the tanks on racks built out of dimensional (2 x 4) lumber, with the lowest level of tanks not on the floor and highest level not touching the ceiling ... 

Here's some questions for those that are using tank racks similarly constructed:

1. How much open space/area (height in inches) below the bottom of the rack on the bottom level of tanks, keeping in mind that there might be the occasional water spill and I'd probably need access to blot up the spilled water ?

2. In terms of ease servicing, how much open area (height) above the top of tanks that have another level of tanks above them ?

3. Keeping in mind the ceiling height - 89" or 7' 5" ... and the fact that I'm about 6' 1" tall - what is the highest the top edge of the top level tanks ought to be at most ? (I'm not adverse to to using a short step stool, to service the top level of tanks ... but I'd like to avoid an actually ladder ... )

I realize that any answers to the above are largely opinion and personal preference ... what one might find workable, another may not. IOW: there isn't really a "right" answer, so far as I know.

Plan is to primarily use sponge filters eventually running off a central air pump ... although there will be at least one sump on a larger tank, maybe a couple. Possibly hard to answer without knowing exactly how many tanks, but:

4. Would a full loop of 3/4" Schedule 40 PVC run all the way around (roughly 60 lineal feet) on the walls near the top of room be sufficient as an air supply ? Or would I need to go bigger ? ... (1" ?)

Plan is to heat the room not the tanks, although our HVAC is not currently zoned. I do have some concerns about heating the room and not the tanks ... mostly with keeping it warm enough in the summer (gets pretty chilly in the basement) ... we'll see how it goes though I guess. Need to investigate the zone aspect a little further, possibly retrofit the existing duct work going into that room at a reasonable cost.

If anyone has any thoughts or input on the above - or any other aspect for that matter - feel free to chime in.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

The longest, unbroken interior wall in the fish room is merely a (non-load bearing) partition, between the fish room and the "family room", which is finished.

It's built out of drywalled 2 x 4 studs and is about 10' long, on the fish room side (much longer on the family room side)

In the family room, on its exterior wall, there are open-back storage cabinets, which are 35 1/2" high and 20 1/2" deep, with book shelves on top. These cabinets and book shelves are roughly 13'+ long and were built by the construction company that finished the room.

They aren't really anything spectacular to look at (just a simple dark stain finish I believe) ... but they appear to be well built, constructed out of 3/4" plywood ... possibly cabinet-grade b-i-r-c-h from the looks of it. The interior height inside the cabinets is about 30" inches ... which would allow plenty of working room to service a sump and any equipment.

The doors on the front of the cabinets are multiple pairs of double doors, with an overall width of 26" per set of doors. The pairs of doors are probably on 30" or 32" centers. Each "section" (pair of doors) has a vertical piece of 3/4" plywood that runs all the way from the front to the back, top to bottom, separating the entire thing into individual, separate spaces.

The top is a dark or black Formica and the book shelves may not actually be attached ... and may just be sitting on top of the cabinets (although they also may be glued) ... meaning they could possibly be disassembled and separated fairly easily. The cabinets and shelves are open-back ... the wood panelling on the wall behind them forms their "rear".

I believe that the (exterior) wall that these cabinets/book shelves are on is completely uninsulated ... which could stand to be handled.

The plan at this point is:

1. Remove cabinets, shelves, and panelling from the exterior wall.

2. Insulate the exterior wall and finish it off, probably with drywall.

3. Disassemble shelves (but not the lower cabinets) ... so that the wood can be re-used.

4. Mebbe punch a hole in the 10' long wall dividing the fish room from the family room, to allow a "tank-in-the-wall" sort of setup.

5. Cut the cabinets to length, to fit that roughly 10' long wall inside the fish room ... and use them as the basis for the stand for the in-the-wall tank mentioned in No. 4 above.

As a practical matter, the longest tank that could be (easily) accommodated and incorporated into the wall is probably 8' ... due to a (vertical) wiring run and light switches on one end of the wall.

Since the back/rear of the cabinet is open, it will probably have to be reinforced and skinned ... to be sturdy enough to support a large tank.

Additional reinforcement may be needed in other spots as well, and once I get it out of there and get some pics, I'd welcome some feedback and suggestions on the reinforcement aspect.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Here is how to build the racks:
http://tedsfishroom.com/2011/04/20/aqua ... fish-room/

Remove the carpet and install tile. I like smaller tanks for more species and I don't like big fish anyway. My fav for a fishroom is 33G long which is 48x12x12. This allows either more tanks on the rack or more space overhead for access...my preference is the latter. Aisles between rows of tanks are 26"...I'd probably do 30" next time.

1-Under the 2x4 for bottom tank allow 16". This is for empty tanks (or filled in a pinch) and empty fish shipping boxes repurposed as storage bins. This way you also have the cooler boxes for shipping and picking up fish at auctions, etc.

2-I have 12" over each tank...I would never do less and if possible next time I would do more. I already bang into the next shelf when scraping algae and netting fish.

3-top edge of top tank is 64" and I am as tall as you. Step stool needed for changes but not daily maintenance. Shelf over top tank is storage.

4-IDK because I don't run air.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I guess the big question is what size tanks are you planning on using for the racks? Taller tanks will need more space above the tank rim for access in decorating, cleaning and removing fish.

1) I have between 8" and 10" under my racks, partially for access to clean and mop up but mostly because I ran my drain lines under the stand and needed a certain height to maintain drainage slope of the 2" PVC pipe. We did add shelves above the top most tanks for storage but my fish styros are kept in the garage.

2) All my tanks in the fish room are 15" tall or shorter to allow stacking 3 tanks high. I left 7.5" between the top rim of the tank and the bottom of the shelf rail above. It is a tight space to work with but I can live with it.

3) On the rack with older model 15"H 40B tanks, the top tank rim is at 72.5" off the floor. I use a step stool for minor maintenance but find a step ladder with tray allows somewhere to hold a bucket or tray to add/remove decor without climbing up and down as frequently.

4) We used 3/4" PVC to run the air supply around the entire perimeter of the room at the ceiling and use a linear air pump to supply the air. Choosing the correct air pump will depend on the number of outlets per tank, whether using air stones and the height of the tanks. Taller tanks require more pressure or volume of air to work correctly.

I'm using commercial steel racks bought 2nd hand otherwise I would have used Ted Judy's rack method linked above. The commercial racks also allow some flexibility if I should decide to keep different size tanks in the future.

I also highly recommend laying out the fish room design with careful measurements, especially if you plan on drilling the tanks so you can lay out the drainage needs in advance. We took a couple months with multiple design changes once we knew what size tanks we were going to use.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

DJ,

Thanks.



DJRansome said:


> Here is how to build the racks:
> http://tedsfishroom.com/2011/04/20/aqua ... fish-room/


I dunno whether it's just me (in my doddering old age :lol: ), but I couldn't find a video - or even a link to one - on that page (or on the video index page for that matter) ... which seems kind of odd.

I was however able to find the video on YouTube using Google - here's a direct link:






Good stuff ... :thumb:

I also had a look at the video for his new fish room ... but kinda had to laugh when he was commenting about leaving plenty of space behind the tanks for access.

I'm sure it was an optical illusion - probably from the distortion of the camera lens - but it sure didn't look like there was all that much space behind that rack of tanks along the wall.

Trying to think outside the box here a little, it appears that his reasoning behind allowing space behind the tanks is for access to plumbing (bulkhead drains, mebbe water fill lines, air, etc.)

If that's the case, then why not just double rack the tanks - two rows, back-to-back - and put the bulkheads and drains in the front, and the air and water supply (fill) lines directly overhead in the racking itself ?

It seems to me that doing so would be a better utilization of space, and really, the only thing that would suffer is appearance/cosmetics/aesthetics ...

What I'm missing here on this ?

I need to have a look at the rest of his stuff.



DJRansome said:


> Remove the carpet and install tile.


Arrrgh ... :x





DJRansome said:


> I like smaller tanks for more species and I don't like big fish anyway. *My fav for a fishroom is 33G long which is 48x12x12*.


Yup ... has a number of advantages ... a pretty good amount of room/volume of water, low height, and lots of surface area vs. the volume of water.



DJRansome said:


> This allows either more tanks on the rack or more space overhead for access...*my preference is the latter*.


That would probably get my vote as well.

I'm not getting any younger, and ease of maintenance is a big consideration.

And I've got plenty of other space that I could expand into, if it ever came to that and I really needed to.



DJRansome said:


> Aisles between rows of tanks are 26"...I'd probably do 30" next time.


Yeah ... going to have to explore it a bit with a couple of alternatives and see how it lays out, but I'm thinking that 30" would be the absolute minimum I'd do ... I'm more inclined to go 32" &#8230; or more.



DJRansome said:


> 1-Under the 2x4 for bottom tank allow 16". This is for empty tanks (or filled in a pinch) and empty fish shipping boxes repurposed as storage bins. This way you also have the cooler boxes for shipping and picking up fish at auctions, etc.


Ok, makes sense.



DJRansome said:


> 2-I have 12" over each tank...I would never do less and if possible next time I would do more.


I was thinking that 12" would probably be the minimum.

I think it's mostly an issue of body size for me - being over 6' tall with fairly long arms, getting into confined or cramped spaces is an issue. My wife, who is just a tad over 5' tall doesn't normally have a problem with confined spaces that I do.

However, she can't reach the upper third shelf in the top kitchen cabinets without a step stool either ... something I have no problem with at all.



DJRansome said:


> I already bang into the next shelf when scraping algae and netting fish.


I hear ya.



DJRansome said:


> 3-top edge of top tank is 64" and I am as tall as you. Step stool needed for changes but not daily maintenance.


Got it.



DJRansome said:


> *Shelf over top tank is storage*.


Right ... was in my original thoughts.



DJRansome said:


> 4-IDK because I don't run air.


Fair enough.

Thanks again ... lots of food for thought.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> I guess the big question is what size tanks are you planning on using for the racks? Taller tanks will need more space above the tank rim for access in decorating, cleaning and removing fish.


Yup ... that's the sixty-four dollar question ...

I didn't have the full specifics in mind, other than my initial (somewhat nebulous) inclination was to go with a mix of mostly small and medium tanks ... 10G's, 20L's, and some 30 breeders and/or 33L's. I actually considered using 55G's as well, figuring that given how many of them are out there on CL, the cost to acquire could be pretty cheap ... but have mostly ruled them out in a rack situation because of the height issue. Still, I have a few places were a couple of stacked 55G's could probably be shoehorned in.

I'd really prefer to go with new tanks, because of the warranty/condition aspect and not having to mess with things like unexpected re-sealings ... but I'm open to previously owned if they are in good condition at a reasonable price and are a less-than-common size that I'm looking for.

Economics are always factor of course ... and this endeavor will likely be done on an incremental basis over time, for that reason.



Deeda said:


> 1) I have between 8" and 10" under my racks, partially for access to clean and mop up but mostly because I ran my drain lines under the stand and needed a certain height to maintain drainage slope of the 2" PVC pipe.


Right ... IIRC, it's a minimum of 1/8" drop per lineal foot of run.

I was actually considering using smaller pipe for drain lines ... but I need to give it a little more thought before I decide.

Thinking about it a bit, would probably wise to go larger rather than smaller ... that way multiple tanks could be drained at once, without the size of the main drain line being an issue.

Ideal situation would be to have the tanks set up so that all I had to do to do pwc's on a tank was open a valve to drain, open a valve to refill.

Either that or go with overflows and a CAWC. Not sure how advisable that would be though with our well issues.



Deeda said:


> We did add shelves above the top most tanks for storage but my fish styros are kept in the garage.


Got it.



Deeda said:


> 2) All my tanks in the fish room are 15" tall or shorter to allow stacking 3 tanks high. I left 7.5" between the top rim of the tank and the bottom of the shelf rail above. It is a tight space to work with but I can live with it.


Yup ... it's a trade-off: more tanks per lineal foot of rack space vs. relative ease of access.

As long as it works for you, that's what's important.



Deeda said:


> 3) On the rack with older model 15"H 40B tanks, the top tank rim is at 72.5" off the floor.


Good data ... thanks.



Deeda said:


> I use a step stool for minor maintenance but find a step ladder with tray allows somewhere to hold a bucket or tray to add/remove decor without climbing up and down as frequently.


Good point on the tray ... we've got a lightweight two-step aluminum step ladder , with a (bonus) tray that folds out, that I'll probably commandeer ... that should get me high enough to service/access anything in the room.



Deeda said:


> 4) We used 3/4" PVC to run the air supply around the entire perimeter of the room at the ceiling and use a linear air pump to supply the air.


Thanks.



Deeda said:


> Choosing the correct air pump will depend on the number of outlets per tank, whether using air stones and the height of the tanks.


Yeah ... need to do some more research there.

I have a couple of Fluval diaphragm pumps - a Q1 and a Q2 I think - to get me started until figure out exactly what I'm going to do. Probably retire them into back ups once I figure it out and decide on what's needed &#8230; or stick them on tanks that are out of the main area.



Deeda said:


> Taller tanks require more pressure or volume of air to work correctly.


Right.

For the most part, will probably will be looking to limit tank height to 16" or so - at least on the racks.



Deeda said:


> I'm using commercial steel racks bought 2nd hand otherwise I would have used Ted Judy's rack method linked above. The commercial racks also allow some flexibility if I should decide to keep different size tanks in the future.


Yeah ... commercial racking is nice that way.

I actually do have a bunch of uprights (a t-post) for commercial shelving (not racking) over in the barn, but I lack the actual shelving for it. They clip together and are capable of carrying quite a bit of weight ... but the shelves (which I lack) were only 3' long typically, with varying depths (12", 18", etc.) ... not to mention that they're pretty dirty ... so really not suitable IMO.

Doing them in wood is easy enough, with the upside that it should be relatively cheap.

The final design of the racks will probably be a compromise of giving up the maximum amount of tanks that could be packed into a given space vs. making the racks flexible enough so that they could accommodate different tank sizes if needs or focus changes.



Deeda said:


> I also highly recommend laying out the fish room design with careful measurements, ...


I'll be laying it out in a CAD program, modeled in three dimensions ... so the degree of accuracy will be mostly dependent on what degree of precision I take when I measure.



Deeda said:


> *especially if you plan on drilling the tanks* so you can lay out the drainage needs in advance.


I'm seriously considering drilling them ... but need to research it further to fully understand the upsides and downsides.

Are (any of) yours drilled ?



Deeda said:


> We took a couple months with multiple design changes once we knew what size tanks we were going to use.


Yeah ... I can see this is going to take some thinking to really properly plan out.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

wryan said:


> I'd really prefer to go with new tanks, because of the warranty/condition aspect and not having to mess with things like unexpected re-sealings ... but I'm open to previously owned if they are in good condition at a reasonable price and are a less-than-common size that I'm looking for. I understand that completely. All my fish room tanks are 2nd hand and I didn't need to reseal any of them.
> 
> Economics are always factor of course ... and this endeavor will likely be done on an incremental basis over time, for that reason.
> 
> ...


Since it is a fish room, I really wish we had drilled the tanks on the front side and drilled them low enough to allow almost fully draining them. You would need to add a ball valve to each tank to control how much you wanted to drain and be there during the water change. I would still add a standpipe inside the tank in case you overfill a bit or to skim off any surface scum that sometimes accumulates.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> I understand that completely. All my fish room tanks are 2nd hand and I didn't need to reseal any of them.


That's very encouraging to hear ...



Deeda said:


> I use a 1" vinyl hose to drain each tank individually into the main drain piping.


One opening in the main drain piping for each bank/column of tanks ?



Deeda said:


> I just drain all the tanks on the racks and then add the new water back in using a hose.


Yeah that works (obviously ... )



Deeda said:


> Sounds good. I couldn't figure out how to use that type of program so went with the old fashion method. :lol:


I like graph paper too ...



Deeda said:


> Yes, we drilled all the tanks. The 1st one was scary but the rest went perfectly.


Good deal ... that's also very encouraging to hear.

Use a drill press ... or just a handheld drill ?



Deeda said:


> Since it is a fish room, I really wish we had drilled the tanks on the front side and drilled them low enough to allow almost fully draining them.


Thanks ... serves to confirm some of my thinking on the matter.



Deeda said:


> You would need to add a ball valve to each tank to control how much you wanted to drain and be there during the water change.


Yup ... ball valves aren't free ... but they really aren't all that much either, depending on the actual size of course.

It eventually does begin to add up however, the more tanks you get.



Deeda said:


> I would still add a standpipe inside the tank in case you overfill a bit or to skim off any surface scum that sometimes accumulates.


Yeah ... something that can be easily removed ... to go low or high ... either just an unglued slip connection inside the tank or threaded.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

We installed a 3" to 2" reducer that sticks out from the rack and connects to the main drain line and use that to siphon from the tank to the drain. Yes there is one per bank of 6 tanks. I use a length of 3" pipe stuck in the reducer to drain the tanks higher on the rack and remove it for the tanks on the bottom level.

We have a drill press so used that to drill the tanks. Once you figure out how to support the tank firmly with scrap wood, it went quickly.

I wanted to add that be careful with drilling 55G tanks as many of them are tempered on all panels.

I've been looking online for some great examples of fish rooms but for the life of me, I can't find the ones I liked or the links no longer work. My old laptop died and I've lost a lot of my favorite links.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> We installed a 3" to 2" reducer that sticks out from the rack and connects to the main drain line and use that to siphon from the tank to the drain. Yes there is one per bank of 6 tanks. I use a length of 3" pipe stuck in the reducer to drain the tanks higher on the rack and remove it for the tanks on the bottom level.


Good ideas, thanks.



Deeda said:


> We have a drill press so used that to drill the tanks. Once you figure out how to support the tank firmly with scrap wood, it went quickly.


Good to know.

Might have a question or two about that when the time comes.



Deeda said:


> I wanted to add that be careful with drilling 55G tanks as many of them are tempered on all panels.


Right ...

I think the nice one I have (a Marineland/Perfecto ?) was marked that it was tempered glass on the bottom only. Need to recheck it though.

The other 55G will like get relegated to a sump for a big tank ... so no real need to drill it that I can see.



Deeda said:


> I've been looking online for some great examples of fish rooms but for the life of me, I can't find the ones I liked or the links no longer work. My old laptop died and I've lost a lot of my favorite links.


Sorry to hear that ...

BTDT a few times myself.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

First stab at a floor plan.

If I recall correctly, the aisle at the top is 36 1/2" wide and the one on the bottom is 34 1/2" wide. Would be a little narrower by the time the drain plumbing is mounted on the front of the racks.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Nice 1st layout!

Don't forget that the nominal tank dimensions are usually slightly larger than listed so a 15G or 20H are usually 24+ inches long as I assume that is what the 24" deep rack is for.

Something else to consider that hasn't been mentioned is the purpose behind making a fish room. Are you interested in pleasure viewing, keeping fish that you enjoy and having places to raise fry then selling them or a combination of both?

Allowing space for a seating area for yourself, spouse and any friends will definitely make the fish room more enjoyable and encourage you to spend more time actually viewing your fish. I don't spend enough time in mine so it is something to consider.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> Nice 1st layout!


Thanks.

It should be pretty close on the interior dimensions (1/4" - 1/2") ... but I'll measure again after I get it all cleared out.

Going to try alternate layouts as well (tanks along three walls ... with maybe some display tankage in the center of the room, etc.)



Deeda said:


> Don't forget that the nominal tank dimensions are usually slightly larger than listed ...


Right.



Deeda said:


> ... so a 15G or 20H are usually 24+ inches long as I assume that is what the 24" deep rack is for.


Actually, it was more or less arbitrary ... although if the rack is filled with the long dimension of the tanks running with the long dimension of the rack, one could set 20L's and 10G's (back-to-back, 20L on one side, 10G on the other) on the same rack level (being roughly the same height), and they still would be under the 24" width of the rack.

Two levels of those - with the tanks reversed - would yield tanks of both sizes on both sides.



Deeda said:


> Something else to consider that hasn't been mentioned is the purpose behind making a fish room. Are you interested in pleasure viewing, keeping fish that you enjoy and having places to raise fry then selling them or a combination of both?
> It's really a combo ...
> 
> 
> ...


Definitely.

That was part of the reason for waiting to do a large tank-in-the-wall on that one wall.

On the spousal front, she isn't all that keen ...primarily because she's not looking to get sucked into being an active fish keeper ... :lol:

But having said that, she does check out the 55G in the living room and comments ... and the other day when I came up from the basement where I had been working, she was actually sitting in the chair in front of the tank scoping them out.

The likelihood is that the rack along the wall - whatever size it ends up being - will be what gets built and set up first. Simply because it makes sense to start closest to the drain and water supply and then extend it later ... if the need arose. So the center rack would be an expansion ... one that is probably pretty far down the road.

So there will probably be lots of room for seating for viewing for quite some time.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Ran by Lowes the other day while I was out to pick up some copper fittings and a Watts water mixing valve, which they supposedly had one of in stock. Almost forgot to grab the mixing valve before I left ... and then when I remembered, tracking it down in the store was a bit of a problem, as it wasn't where it was supposed to be. I was pretty excited to find it locally at a big box store ... mostly because the price was great: $49

Eventually found it ... but on closer inspection it turned out that I had read the model number wrong (one character off) on their website and it was the wrong temperature range: 80F to 160F ... vs. the 60F to 120F model.

The guy that helped me locate it thought they could order the correct one in, but turns out they couldn't (or wouldn't)

So I called a local plumbing supply house yesterday afternoon just before 5 PM to see if they had the correct one. Turns out they didn't stock it, but the guy said he would check this morning if it was available to them and whether he could order it.

He called back a little bit ago and yes it is available ... for $178 ...

Yeah, I think I'll pass ... :lol:

In other exciting news, the boot hard drive that I had all my software and CAD drawings on for the fish room ate its partition map ... so it looks like things are on hold for a bit, as far as figuring out racks and so forth, until I can recover that (assuming that I even can) ...


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## Pdxmonkeyboy (Oct 17, 2016)

I will comment on the air delivery method as it is one area that I see people wasting a LOT of money and effort on needlessly. You don't need large lines to run aquarium air. There is simply not enough volume of air to warrant 3/4 or 1" pvc to reduce velocity loss.

I have a hydroponic plant setup with 28 buckets that the plants sit in. We use one ap100 pump to drive 56 2" round air stones in each. The water is almost boiling with air.

Anyways... you can use 1/2 plastic irrigation tubing for the distribution. It is sold in 50 and 100 foot rolls. the 100 is about 12 bucks. for each aquarium you simply use the 1/4" double ended drip barbs. You just push them into the 1/2 tubing. a bag of 50 barbs is around $5. of you want to move airline you can pull the barb our and push in a "goof plug".

also.. I don't know if it has been said but I would avoid drywall. White laminated shower board doesn't need to be painted, is simply to clean and doesn't get wet. Just be sure to install it a 1/2" or so off the floor.

looking forward to this thread, I'm planning a fish room as well.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Pdxmonkeyboy said:


> I will comment on the air delivery method as it is one area that I see people wasting a LOT of money and effort on needlessly. You don't need large lines to run aquarium air. There is simply not enough volume of air to warrant 3/4 or 1" pvc to reduce velocity loss.
> 
> I have a hydroponic plant setup with 28 buckets that the plants sit in. We use one ap100 pump to drive 56 2" round air stones in each. The water is almost boiling with air.
> 
> Anyways... you can use 1/2 plastic irrigation tubing for the distribution. It is sold in 50 and 100 foot rolls. the 100 is about 12 bucks. for each aquarium you simply use the 1/4" double ended drip barbs. You just push them into the 1/2 tubing. a bag of 50 barbs is around $5. of you want to move airline you can pull the barb our and push in a "goof plug".


Thanks ... appreciate it ... I'll check it out.

1/2" or 3/4" Schedule 40 PVC isn't really all that expensive though ... and it does have a thick enough wall to drill and thread airline valves into.



Pdxmonkeyboy said:


> also.. I don't know if it has been said but I would avoid drywall. White laminated shower board doesn't need to be painted, is simply to clean and doesn't get wet. Just be sure to install it a 1/2" or so off the floor.


Yeah ... if I had an unlimited budget (and didn't have an already finished room), I'd probably do FRP ... unfortunately however, I don't.

I've got to figure that covering the existing drywall with a good washable mildew-resistant paint is going to be a lot cheaper (and a lot less work) than replacing wallboard.

Since I plan to keep room heated and the tanks pretty tightly covered, I'm betting that humidity will not be a problem for most of the year. In the winter months (about 4 or so) any humidity will serve to humidify the house. The summer (roughly another 4 months) the AC should remove any humidity. The issue will most likely be the situation on the cusps between summer and winter ... when it isn't really hot or cold enough to run the AC or furnace.

For that I think a cheap bathroom fan on a humidity-sensing switch that is vented to the outside of the house should do the trick.

We'll see how it plays out.



Pdxmonkeyboy said:


> looking forward to this thread, I'm planning a fish room as well.


I hope to really get back into it in the coming days.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Time to update this a little.

I've managed to get the bookshelves on top of the storage cabinets/countertop disassembled and removed. As I suspected, the paneling behind the cabinets is just attached to 2 x 4 furring strips ... with no insulation behind it ... so it definitely will need to be pulled and insulated.

I did run into a snag however: the room has wall to wall carpet ... that runs up to the cabinets. So if I pull the cabs, it will be bare floor ... would have to either replace the carpet or build in some bookshelves ... might just be easier to re-panel the wall once it's insulated and leave the cabinets there, and build another stand for the 6' tank in the fish room from scratch.

I did manage to get the 100G Long moved into the basement yesterday. Plan on cleaning it out and filling it today to leak test it.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Finally starting to move forward again so time for another update.

Got most of the junk moved out of the prospective fish room, just a little more to go. Once that's done I will wash down the walls and ceiling and paint both. Plan on using Zinsser Perma-White Mold and Mildew-Proof Semi-Gloss from Home Depot for the paint, unless someone has had a bad experience with it or knows of a reason I shouldn't. Supposed to a paint and primer all in one and seems reasonably priced.

Decided that I'm going to try and avoid any major modifications if possible ... so I'll be skipping building tanks into walls, etc. One modification I may not be able to avoid however is punching a hole in a wall and installing a door into a closet in an adjacent room, in order to install a utility tub. That closet is tiled, not carpeted, and that seems like it would be a better place for the tub.

Also have modified the rack layout in the room somewhat from what I was originally thinking about:










As envisioned, the racks are capable of holding the following tanks:

10 Gallon: 9

20 Gallon Long: 12

30 Gallon Breeder: 6

33 Gallon Long: 2

40 Gallon Breeder: 6

55 Gallon: 2

and one six foot 100 Gallon Long with 55 gallon sump.

Since this will be expanded over time, the racks won't all be built at once. Initially, the focus will be on getting one rack done (of two) for the 10G/20G tanks, and the stand for the 100G tank/55G sump done ... so I can get the tanks in the living room moved out of there and down into the fish room.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

A couple of hidden line renderings (with several walls removed) to give a sense of perspective:


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## Trademark (Dec 31, 2016)

Very cool, I'd have to meet with a divorce lawyer first.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

Trademark said:


> Very cool, I'd have to meet with a divorce lawyer first.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: 
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Trademark said:


> Very cool, I'd have to meet with a divorce lawyer first.


Same here brother, I'm doing good just to have the few tanks I've got now. I'm not even allowed to have a dedicated fish room when we start designing the new house lol.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Trademark said:


> Very cool, ...


Thanks.

I hope to post some actual pics of the room as it currently exists, either later tonight or maybe tomorrow.



Trademark said:


> I'd have to meet with a divorce lawyer first.


 :lol: ... yeah ... you probably don't want to do that.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Looking back into the main area of the room from a small alcove that was used for a desk, entryway hall is on the left:










The room is actually a lot brighter than it appears ... and it should get even brighter still, once I get a coat of good white paint on it, rather than the off-white that's on there now.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Alcove that held the desk on the left, entryway "hall" on the right.










The recess in the entryway will eventually have a set of storage shelves in it and the freestanding shelves which I'm using temporarily for storage will be removed.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Utility closet where the stationary tub and the water supply, drain, etc. will be on the left, alcove on the right:


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

BTW - you can click on any of the images above to view them at roughly double the size they are shown on the page.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

After giving careful consideration to DJ's and Deeda's input, I've decided to eliminate the third row of tanks on the one rack for several reasons:

I have 30' or 40' lineal feet of drain line and I'll need 5" of drop to maintain a slope of 1/8" per foot ... which I consider to be an absolute minimum. I'm not going into a floor drain but rather a a capped cleanout that sticks up out of the floor about 5" - 6" ... it's cast iron pipe embedded in a concrete floor and there's no changing that, so the furthest point on the drain line needs to start at around a 12" (or better) elevation.

Using 2 x 4's for the racks, and leaving what I consider to be adequate space between the rows at different levels, would have put the height of the top edge of the top row of tanks at 79 inches. I'm relatively tall ... but realistically, it would be too tall even for me ... I could probably manage the maintenance, but the real problem would just being able to see all of the tank without using a step stool. If I were using commercial metal shelving (due to the rails the tanks sit on being shorter than 3 1/2" tall), or was going into a floor drain, three rows of tanks might have been achievable ... as it is: _c'est la vie_ ...

The are several upsides to this change including: more room for storage above and below that particular rack and I can design the spacing between the rows of tanks to have more working room for tank maintenance.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Looking good and I see the dilemma with having the 3rd row of tanks on the one rack due to the height. I assume that is the 10G tanks?

Is there a reason why you decided to have a separate utility room in the left corner of the fish room? If structural I can understand that but removing those 2 walls would have opened the room up more and possibly allowed for some additional tanks.

What is behind that wall where the free standing shelving unit currently sits? Could that space be incorporated into the fish room by removing the walls?

What are the plans for the space between the utility room and the wall on the right where the shelving unit sits?

I have more questions but will wait to see your responses.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

Plumbing code is 1/4 slope per foot as an FYI. Anything less will cause issues with debris eventually clogging the lines.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> Looking good and I see the dilemma with having the 3rd row of tanks on the one rack due to the height. I assume that is the 10G tanks?


Yes, the top row was to be all the 10G tanks.

I only have 4 10G's at present and it wouldn't be a big deal to just stick them on the racks below the 55's where I was mebbe going to stick a couple of 33G Longs at some point.



Deeda said:


> Is there a reason why you decided to have a separate utility room in the left corner of the fish room?


Yes ... it was already there and mostly finished (it was actually an existing storage closet - with a tiled floor - off another room) ... and there was access to a hot and cold water supplies and a drain.

IOW, both fish room and utility room/closet were already existing and mostly finished (except for installing a door for access between them)



Deeda said:


> If structural I can understand that but removing those 2 walls would have opened the room up more and possibly allowed for some additional tanks.


It's not really structural ... all the walls you see, I put up ... at one point or another, some years ago.



Deeda said:


> What is behind that wall where the free standing shelving unit currently sits?


My second studio (now largely unused except for storage) ... the (current) fish room was my original studio.

If you walk through into that space from the utility room, you can go another 15' or so (?) before you hit the exterior (east) wall. The dimension of that room in the other direction is the entire depth of the house (front to back) ... probably 40' or 50' ?



Deeda said:


> Could that space be incorporated into the fish room by removing the walls?


Sure ... and it would increase the current space by 4x or 5x ... not totally sure, but the total space would probably be on the order of 800 - 900 sq. ft. 

Biggest problem with doing that, is that both spaces are pretty much completely finished spaces at this point ... and something would have to be done to finish off any structure that was removed. A task that I'm not really sure I'm up for at this point in my life ... even if it was financially feasible.

Both rooms do use the same style (pattern) commercial carpet ... but the fish room carpet is green while the other room's carpet is dark gray.

Biggest problem with that room is that it has two exterior walls, one of which is completely above grade and the other is 1/2 above grade (ground slopes from front to rear of the house for a walkout basement)

And the room seems to stay considerably cooler than the space I elected to use.



Deeda said:


> What are the plans for the space between the utility room and the wall on the right where the shelving unit sits?


I had a 48" x 32" Ikea table I was thinking about sticking in there ... just to have a flat surface to work on, if need be.



Deeda said:


> I have more questions but will wait to see your responses.


Ask away ... but in the meantime, I have one of my own  :

What did you do, or what are you using, for tank lighting in your fish room ?


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Cyphound said:


> Plumbing code is 1/4 slope per foot as an FYI. Anything less will cause issues with debris eventually clogging the lines.


Thanks.

Yup ... I was aware of that, in terms of the lines being self-flushing.

I don't think 1/8" per foot will really be an issue, in terms of what I'm running in the line (aka no large ... ahem ... "debris"  )

Plan at this point is to install the drain lines and not completely glue them up at a few key points and test it for flow.

That way they could possibly be adjusted for a greater slope if there is an issue.

I plan on using 1 1/2" ABS pipe for the drain lines ... going with a small diameter pipe like that, should keep the pipe fuller (than if it were larger diameter) and contribute to the self-flushing aspect.

I will also have a 25' garden hose in the room connected to a hose bib in the utility closet that I can use to shoot some water into the drain lines every time I drain tanks, just to keep it flushed out.

I will put in as much slope as I possibly can.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

We used 2" PVC for the perimeter drain lines with 1/8" slope per foot and it is working great. As wryan stated, no large debris or solids have plugged the drain though with normal house waste lines, follow the rules for your location.

@wryan, I completely understand not wanting to revise the existing room structure, just though I'd ask!

The boyfriend bought some LED strips on a roll online + power supplies to operate them, I'll try to get some more details on the parts. We've replaced the original due to individual LED failure because they were enclosed in waterproof material. 
Superbrightleds.com was the website and they have a section to figure out what power supply to use with however many LED's you want to run. We used the 12V LED 10,000K tape light with LC2 connector part #NFLS-CW300-WHT-LC2 and the roll is 16.4 feet long. Specs are 1 Watt per foot of LED. The diodes are 3528 SMD or you can use 50/50 SMD. We used the 50/50 SMD version. He cut off the LC2 connector and used a 5.5mm barrel connector (#CPS-PT) that hooked up to the power supply.

The power supply aspect is a bit wonky and will vary depending on how many LED's will be connected. I couldn't figure out the math so he did some research to figure it out based on the number and watts of LED's connected in series per run. He used a computer power supply from Staples. The wall wart type power supply are OK for short runs but really heat up so hence the computer style PS.

I did want to add that we used a 1 x 2 board, routed a slot down the middle, stuck the LED strip to the bottom of the groove and then mounted the board to the underside of the shelf above. We did make a revision after a couple of the LED strips failed and that was to add some scrap coil aluminum left over from a past project to the slot 1st and then stick the LED strip in place to help dissipate some heat.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> We used 2" PVC for the perimeter drain lines with 1/8" slope per foot and it is working great. As wryan stated, no large debris or solids have plugged the drain though with normal house waste lines, follow the rules for your location.


Thanks for that info ... very good to know ... :thumb:

My plan was to install tees into the line at various points (probably one tee where the ends of two tanks butt up), with one leg pointing up and leaving that leg open (ie. not capped) ... which would provide multiple points to drain the tanks into. The only issue I see is if a mouse crawled down into the pipe and died.

There will be a P-trap at the point where the line connects to the cast iron drain pipe in the floor, to prevent sewer gas from coming up into the house.

I'll likely use a piece of pipe stuck in the tee, as an extension as you are, to get to the tanks at the higher levels.



Deeda said:


> @wryan, I completely understand not wanting to revise the existing room structure, just though I'd ask!


If I ever did need more room (probably unlikely), I'd probably use that other space ... but would keep the existing structure (walls, etc.)



Deeda said:


> The boyfriend bought some LED strips on a roll online + power supplies to operate them, I'll try to get some more details on the parts. We've replaced the original due to individual LED failure because they were enclosed in waterproof material.
> 
> Superbrightleds.com was the website and they have a section to figure out what power supply to use with however many LED's you want to run. We used the 12V LED 10,000K tape light with LC2 connector part #NFLS-CW300-WHT-LC2 and the roll is 16.4 feet long. Specs are 1 Watt per foot of LED. The diodes are 3528 SMD or you can use 50/50 SMD. We used the 50/50 SMD version. He cut off the LC2 connector and used a 5.5mm barrel connector (#CPS-PT) that hooked up to the power supply.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the detailed info ... obviously, I'll need to do some reading up on all this.

A couple of concerns I would have are:

1. Getting enough lumens per foot to adequately light a tank.

2. Minimizing reflected light from tank covers.

Tanks covers will likely be clear 6mm twinwall polycarbonate at this point ... as I don't see being able to get cut glass at anywhere close to a similar price (FWIW, I can pick up a 4' x 8' of twinwall polycarbonate for around $40)

Although this setup is primarily for keeping and raising fish, I'd like the aesthetics of the tanks and racks to be reasonably decent as well.

I have one tank (20 Long) that has a Aqueon glass cover on it with a (Aqueon ?) fluorescent light on top of it. There's enough of a gap between the glass top and the light fixture that light bleeds out which I find kind of annoying. The other tanks I have, have full plastic hoods with lights, and do not suffer from this phenomena.

Might be something I just have to get use to ... dunno ...


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Take a look at a similar example of how I set up my drain access for siphoning out tanks. I have 2 tanks per shelf on bigger tanks and placed the funnel drains in the center of the rack. This is Stephan's old fish room and it is where I got my ideas for the basic layout for drainage. Scroll down the page to see the example of funnel drains.

Fish room layout

Our lighting setup is sufficient for lighting and viewing the tanks since the single LED strip runs the full length of the rack.

Great idea on the twinwall polycarbonate, I've started replacing a few of my glass lids with it and am satisfied so far. I bought a sample online but shipping was expensive. Are you buying the twinwall locally or did you need to mail order it?

I agree that light bleed is an issue since the LED is mounted under the upper shelf and I still haven't addressed that problem. I thought of adding a curtain, light weight hinged door that flips out of the way or something similar but got lazy. Some fish stores I've been in use a similar method with sliding doors to access the aquarium and they look great.

BTW, you can add some lift out hardware cloth screen to the funnel valves or similar openings to prevent something large from getting into the drainage pipes. Just remove them when using, replace when done. I use scrap filter foam, large enough to not fall in. If you have mice, that's another whole issue. :lol: However, if you have children visit, a cap would work.

Another club member also has their sewage drain higher than their tank drainage piping and he uses a junky but water tight aquarium placed on the floor to accept tank drainage and a sump pump with float placed inside to pump water UP to his main sewer drain. It works for him and also catches any gravel and sand prior to the pump. Something to consider if you have space.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Reading your last post and looking Stephan's set up now ...

The twinwall polycarbonate should be available at any of the big box building supply stores (Home Depot, Lowes, Menards) ... only question might be whether or not some have it in stock at this time of year.

I know the Menards down in Massillon does (unless their online inventory on their website is wrong) ... the price is around $42 normally ... but they currently have a store-wide sale going until this coming Saturday with a 11% rebate on anything purchased, which takes the cost down to $38 and change per 6mm x 4' x 8' panel for the stuff I was looking at.

I'm planning on the clear Tufftex (82% light transmission), website shows they have 36 pieces in stock:

Tuftex® 4' x 8' Polycarbonate Clear Twinwall Panel (6 mm)

They also offer it (in a different brand) with a diffused or smoked finish, in different lengths (up to 12' long)/widths (26" wide)


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> Take a look at a similar example of how I set up my drain access for siphoning out tanks. I have 2 tanks per shelf on bigger tanks and placed the funnel drains in the center of the rack. This is Stephan's old fish room and it is where I got my ideas for the basic layout for drainage.


LOL ... and I was worried about clearance on the top row of my tanks ... :lol:

I think the only thing I'd do different on the drainage is attach the pipes to the front of the rack.

Since my tanks will probably not be drilled, and will be worked from the front it just seems to make sense to me to place them there. It also keeps them away from any electric.



Deeda said:


> Scroll down the page to see the example of funnel drains.


Yup that's what I had in mind, based on your previous description.



Deeda said:


> Our lighting setup is sufficient for lighting and viewing the tanks since the single LED strip runs the full length of the rack.


I'll be interested to see how much lighting is actually needed for the top row of tanks here ... the room lighting is pretty bright as it is.



Deeda said:


> Great idea on the twinwall polycarbonate, I've started replacing a few of my glass lids with it and am satisfied so far.


This is very good to know.

Are you using single-piece polycarbonate lids ... or using a two-piece sliding set up like you did with the glass ?

Another alternative I saw was two-piece with the back generally left in place and the front piece just lifting out.



Deeda said:


> I agree that light bleed is an issue since the LED is mounted under the upper shelf and I still haven't addressed that problem. I thought of adding a curtain, light weight hinged door that flips out of the way or something similar but got lazy.


As I recall I think prov356 eventually had some kind of set up where the boards that his LED's attached to were normally tilted down but tilted up to allow access for tank maintenance.



Deeda said:


> Some fish stores I've been in use a similar method with sliding doors to access the aquarium and they look great.


I'm in the middle of installing that very type of set up on all the shelves up in my shop ... just been too cold to work on it lately. Since I weld up there, there is a lot of dust from grinding ... and it gets all over everything.

I'm using F-channel (and maybe some J-channel as well) which is used with siding to install soffit in the overhangs, plus some 7/8 thick hardboard panels from the Depot that are white on one side. It's all pretty cheap ... compared to the double-groove track that is used for bypass doors.



Deeda said:


> BTW, you can add some lift out hardware cloth screen to the funnel valves or similar openings to prevent something large from getting into the drainage pipes. Just remove them when using, replace when done. I use scrap filter foam, large enough to not fall in.


Great idea ... should have some foam left over once I cut it down for the sump filter on the 100G tank.



Deeda said:


> If you have mice, that's another whole issue. :lol:


Indeed.

With four cats, you wouldn't think it would be a problem ... somehow though, a few always seem to find their way in every fall.



Deeda said:


> However, if you have children visit, a cap would work.


Likely won't be an issue but I'll keep that in mind ... :thumb:



Deeda said:


> Another club member also has their sewage drain higher than their tank drainage piping and he uses a junky but water tight aquarium placed on the floor to accept tank drainage and a sump pump with float placed inside to pump water UP to his main sewer drain. It works for him and also catches any gravel and sand prior to the pump. Something to consider if you have space.


That's another possibility as well.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

wryan said:


> I think the only thing I'd do different on the drainage is attach the pipes to the front of the rack. That should work, just be aware that you will be kicking the piping with your foot when working on the tanks. Maybe place them just inside the stand if you can still get the slope you need.
> 
> Since my tanks will probably not be drilled, and will be worked from the front it just seems to make sense to me to place them there. It also keeps them away from any electric. We did install the wall plugs in normal height from floor in order to convert the room back to original condition but did install 4 foot long power strips on the wall just below the 1st shelf for easy access to cords. That is working great and avoids having to crawl on the floor.
> 
> ...


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I did respond to you posts above and typed my answers in red so hopefully you can view them OK.

Another option some people use for drains is installing plastic gutters below tank level but mounted on front of the stand, one gutter length per tier level. They just use a downspout connector at the end of the run to dump into large enough PVC or ABS drain pipe. Probably more expensive than just pipe but easier to hit the gutter opening when siphoning tanks. I've seen fish room examples online, mostly small livebearer and fry tanks 10G and smaller.

Thanks for the heads up on where to buy PC locally.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> That should work, just be aware that you will be kicking the piping with your foot when working on the tanks. Maybe place them just inside the stand if you can still get the slope you need.


The piping will be probably at least 8" - 10" (really probably more like 12") off the floor ... might bang my shin, but the feets shouldn't be an issue.



Deeda said:


> We did install the wall plugs in normal height from floor in order to convert the room back to original condition but did install 4 foot long power strips on the wall just below the 1st shelf for easy access to cords. That is working great and avoids having to crawl on the floor.


I'll probably do something similar.



 Deeda said:


> The only issue with using the funnel drains is when initially starting the tank draining; sucking on the hose and hitting the funnel or pipe extension can get a bit messy at times.


LOL ... yeah.

1. Cap lower end of the siphon hose (with a thumb or install a valve)

2. Partially fill siphon hose and place the end that will be doing the sucking into the tank.

3. Open valve.

If there was enough water put into the hose in Step 1, it should just pull the air bubble out the bottom and keep siphoning.

Those words of wisdom were brought to you by a guy who is still sucking on the hose to start the siphon ... :lol:



Deeda said:


> I haven't tried the 2 piece sliding tops with the PC yet.


IC



Deeda said:


> Two piece lids, I cut the rear part to fit and notch corners for air lines & heater and a front piece to lift out.


Yeah ... that seems like it would be the easiest. Probably what I'll do.



Deeda said:


> Sounds great and should work very well, especially if you can lift out the doors when you need full access.


The ones in the shop will lift out ... if I cut them down a little.

The openings on the shelves in the shop - which are 12' to 16' in length overall - are around 42 3/4" to 44 1/4" per section and the individual bypass doors are 48" in length and can be slide all the way open ... except for the little part where the knob on the door is. The two doors on the ends of each level of shelving slide towards the center.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> I did respond to you posts above and typed my answers in red so hopefully you can view them OK.


Appreciated.



Deeda said:


> Another option some people use for drains is installing plastic gutters below tank level but mounted on front of the stand, one gutter length per tier level. They just use a downspout connector at the end of the run to dump into large enough PVC or ABS drain pipe. Probably more expensive than just pipe but easier to hit the gutter opening when siphoning tanks. I've seen fish room examples online, mostly small livebearer and fry tanks 10G and smaller.


Yeah ... pipe is pretty cheap.

Probably the way I'll go.



Deeda said:


> Thanks for the heads up on where to buy PC locally.


My pleasure.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Finally made it to Menards and the van is unloaded into the garage.

Should have enough material to build and plumb the two racks for the 20 Longs on the north wall (bottom of floor layout image) and the stand for the six foot 100G tank with 55G sump.

The only thing I forgot to grab while I was there ... (wait for it) ... a sheet of twinwall polycarbonate ... :lol:

Hope to get everything cut and moved down into the basement tomorrow while it's still relatively warm out.

After that, it's on to painting.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

How could you forget the TW PC? Just kidding, I always forget something when shopping for projects despite an extensive list.

Yep, perfect weather today and possibly tomorrow for this project.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> How could you forget the TW PC? Just kidding, I always forget something when shopping for projects despite an extensive list.


Too funny isn't it ?

The ironic thing is, I somehow managed to remember to pick up a few things which weren't on the list ... :lol:



Deeda said:


> Yep, perfect weather today and possibly tomorrow for this project.


Perfect enough that I might sneak back down to Menard's and pick that sheet of PC ... since I'll need to rip it on the table saw which is out in the garage.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I just used a utility knife and a drywall t-square to cut PC. Too lazy to bring out the table saw since it is buried in the corner of the garage plus I was worried about tearing up the PC.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> I just used a utility knife and a drywall t-square to cut PC.


I'm surprised that it's that easy to cut (but then I've never even seen it)

Did you cut it all the way through ... or just score it with a knife and then snap it off on a table edge ?



Deeda said:


> Too lazy to bring out the table saw since it is buried in the corner of the garage plus I was worried about tearing up the PC.


Yeah ... my garage has so much junk piled in it that it's almost impossible to work in.

Luckily, the mitre saw is on a stand with casters ... so it's easy to move around ... assuming there's actually some open space to move it into ... :lol:

I was able to get 8 rails (100" long) and 16 uprights (47 1/2" tall) cut before I had to leave this afternoon. That's enough for the two racks that will go along the north wall. Also got one of the dado joints cut in 8 of the uprights, but it needs smoothed out and cleaned up.

By opting to go only 47 1/2" tall I lose the overhead shelves, but I cut reduced the number of 2 x 4 x 8's required for the uprights to build those two racks by half (8 vs 16) ... save about $25 and might be able to get away without having to light that top row of tanks with something other than room lighting.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I think I just cut and snapped like drywall but I may be wrong. I tried to cut it so there was at least a closed cell along one long edge but of course that left the other long edge with an open channel. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

Good to hear you got some material cut for the racks!


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> I think I just cut and snapped like drywall but I may be wrong.


Was thinking that might be the case.



Deeda said:


> I tried to cut it so there was at least a closed cell along one long edge but of course that left the other long edge with an open channel.


Right ... was bound to work out that way.

I take it it has been fairly stable as far as not much warping or curling ?



Deeda said:


> Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.


No worries ... you been a huge help so far.



Deeda said:


> Good to hear you got some material cut for the racks!


I managed to get everything cut for 13" wide rack, but I think I have about 7 pieces still to go on the stand for the 100 Long.

Even got most of it moved into the house ... just have to move it down into the utility room in the basement so it can be sanded and painted.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I've actually only used the PC on 10G tanks so far and no warping or curling but I wouldn't expect either on a larger span due to the nature of the product as well as its original purpose as a greenhouse covering.

My biggest concern was whether any moisture getting inside the cells would grow algae though I have not experienced that as of yet. I haven't thought of a good cheap method to seal/plug the cells prior to use.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> I've actually only used the PC on 10G tanks so far and no warping or curling but I wouldn't expect either on a larger span due to the nature of the product as well as its original purpose as a greenhouse covering.


Right, makes sense.



Deeda said:


> My biggest concern was whether any moisture getting inside the cells would grow algae though I have not experienced that as of yet.


Good point ... algae would sorta create an issue as far as light transmission.



Deeda said:


> I haven't thought of a good cheap method to seal/plug the cells prior to use.


I'd guess that the panels could be cut a little short and a strip of pc sheet could be solvent welded on the ends to seal it off ...

But if you aren't having an issue I'd probably skip it until you did.

The upside of it would be that it might work better as an insulator to hold the heat in the tank.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

BTW, I found a guy on youtube that shows how he makes PC lids for his tanks and he has a little DIY project for using acrylic hinges to make a lid . The hinges he used were sorta bulky but it may give you (and me) some ideas if you could find cheaper and thinner hinges.

He also has another video showing how he measures, cuts and fits lids for 40G tanks. I would have used a fine tooth blade for a jigsaw though as the cuts would be cleaner. A bit of fine sandpaper would clean up any burrs on the PC.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> BTW, I found a guy on youtube that shows how he makes PC lids for his tanks and he has a little DIY project for using acrylic hinges to make a lid . The hinges he used were sorta bulky but it may give you (and me) some ideas if you could find cheaper and thinner hinges. He also has another video showing how he measures, cuts and fits lids for 40G tanks.


Kewl ... :thumb:

I had watched his original video on cutting pc to make tank lids for the 40G's ... hadn't caught the one about the hinges tho' ... (so many 'tubes, so little time ... :lol



Deeda said:


> I would have used a fine tooth blade for a jigsaw though as the cuts would be cleaner. A bit of fine sandpaper would clean up any burrs on the PC.


Yup ... :thumb:


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Have spent most of the day cleaning up the garage but did do a little more cutting.

I also got all of what was cut moved down into the utility room in the basement, along with the sawhorses and assorted tools.

May still have a couple of boards to left to cut, need to do an inventory in the morning. And I still have the dado cuts to make.

Now that I can actually get to the table saw will probably use that to do the dado's.

Also got the ABS drain pipe cut for the 13" deep rack on the north wall.

And have started designing the sump for the 100G tank ...


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Yes, it always seems to take longer to clean up a workspace prior to working on the project at hand. :lol:


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Deeda said:


> Yes, it always seems to take longer to clean up a workspace prior to working on the project at hand. :lol:


Probably explains why I'm inclined to just dive in ... rather than actually doing something sensible, like cleaning up the workspace prior to starting ... :lol:


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Got the lumber cut to frame out the door into the utility closet ... hope to get it framed and door hung today.

If I get that done, I'll start sanding the lumber for the racks.

Picked up a couple more 20G Long tanks @ Petco yesterday while I was out running around.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Picked up a 4' x 8' panel of 6mm clear polycarbonate the other day from Menards to use for tank lids. After got back I checked and found out an online retailer had put the Aqueon Versa-Tops (glass) on sale @ 20% off their regular price. Too funny ...

Still winds up being considerably cheaper using polycarbonate though.

Cut out a total of 8 lids on the table saw today ... 4 for 20 gallon longs and 4 for 10 gallon tanks.

Also picked up some concrete blocks to build some temporary racks so I can get some tanks set up in the fish room to facilitate moving the fish out of the tanks upstairs, so the tanks can be torn down and moved downstairs to the fish room.

Have started a thread here:

Programmable LED Lighting Controller

... about sourcing a programmable dimmer, so that the room lighting can be automated. Any input appreciated.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

its been a while since your last update on your fish room, how did it turn out?...
got any new pics you like to share?...


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

joselepiu said:


> its been a while since your last update on your fish room, how did it turn out?...


LOL ... it's still a work in progress ... without a whole lot of (visible) progress being made.

I did get holes for the heater cords and air lines carved out on those polycarbonate lids for the tanks and their edges sanded up a little. Got the handles for the tank lids yesterday ... so I need to wash the plastic debris off and get those put on. Plus rinse a bunch more substrate. Also got the temp "tank rack" set up.

Got one 10G tank set up down in the fish room too and filled with substrate, rocks and water. Need to calibrate the heater on that one, since it's the first time it's been run and it's reading pretty high.

Also came up with a solution that should work for controlling the room lighting, to turn it on at specified times, and ramp it up and down to simulate dawn ---> daylight ---> dusk ---> night.



joselepiu said:


> got any new pics you like to share?...


Soon hopefully.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Have managed to get 6 tanks set up in the fish room so far (one 55G, two 20G Longs, and three 10G's) ... all of them on temporary racks, using concrete block and 2 x 4's. Four of them were in the living room, so it's good having them out of there, since it will make the eventual renovations there easier, to say nothing of making things easier to maintain.

This has probably been a good exercise, in that it's allowing me to get a sense of the spacing and what the room will be like once the final racks are set up. Might make some changes on the design of the final racks, to accommodate some 18" deep tanks along the north wall.

I also picked a central air pump from a friend to try out. It's an older Jehmco DAPPH30 which appears to be in very good condition. Diaphragm kits are still available, and are actually the same as the current model. Appears that it might be a little noisier than a linear piston pump ... but that's just from a quick test without putting it in its final home or doing anything to try to reduce the noise.

Also discovered that an automatic temperature (hot/cold) water mixing valve can be ordered from Lowes for a reasonable amount ($49) ... it's a Watts brand with a 60F to 120F output temperature range. It's intended to be installed at the water heater to control distribution temps and is not rated (per code/standards) for "point-of-use" because it doesn't have "scald protection" ... but judging from some replies from Watts on questions about the valve, it looks like it could work.

Have had a couple of humid 80F+ days where we did not run the AC but were running the fan on the central HVAC ... noticed that it seemed a little "close" in the fish room so that may have to be addressed at some point.

Hope to get around to painting three tank backs (one 55G, two 20G Longs) later today and then get them set up and filled.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Got the 3rd coat of Rustoleum flat black paint on two 20G Long tanks yesterday, and got them filled with substrate and water ... stuck a HOB on the one which cleared it up in pretty short order, and am waiting for the water to clear on the second tank. Still have a 55G gallon to paint the back of.

After reading an article on here (that I can no longer find) I came up with a "blend" I'm using for substrate that I think I may like. The gist of the article was that natural environments often have a mix of substrates - sand, small/large gravel and rocks, etc.

The mix I created was: 3 parts Caribesea Coraline gravel, 6 parts Caribesea "Special Reef Grade" Aragonite, 9 parts Santrol AquaQuartz pool filter sand. If anything, it could probably stand to have more pool filter sand.

Stuck two large cycled sponge filters into the old 55G yesterday that I set up down in the fish room, still have to hook up some air to them. Squeezed them out in the tank pretty good to the point that they clouded the water &#8230; so hopefully that will jump start the beneficial bacteria growth.

Loaded a bunch of (new) lava rock into it, and moved some old lava rock from the 55G in the living room.

Also built a couple of pleco caves out of some extra 1 1/2" black ABS pipe and some scrap pieces of floor tile. Silicone should be fully cured on those by tomorrow hopefully.

Hope to get back to working on the room itself and the permanent racks in the next few days.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Have been making a little progress so time for an update ... 

A couple of days ago I got the cleanup/rework of the electrical wiring for the ceiling lights in the room done, eliminated 4 out of 5 wall switches and tied all the ceiling lights into a single switch: a Leviton Decora Wi-Fi Smart Dimmer Switch.

Unlike a number of other "home automation" products, this switch does not require a bridge to tie it into your Wi-Fi network. It is controllable thru the "My Leviton" smartphone app, which is available for iOS and Android.

My primary interest in it was for the ability to program a room lighting schedule ... so I could avoid a trip to the basement at night to shut off the room lights before hitting the rack myself.

The other interest was being able to simulate dawn/dusk or sunrise/sunset conditions.

Unfortunately, the dimming change ramp function in the app is limited to a maximum of 25 seconds, so there's no way to program a ramp up (or down) that occurs over an hour or more. This may be an entirely arbitrary decision on Leviton's part rather than a hardware limitation, so it's possible that it could be addressed in a later update to the app.

There is a workaround however, that can be used to create a "stepped" ramp: each device (aka the switch) can have up to 50 separate schedules programmed. The schedules can be set to run at specific times, with only a start time, or with a start and end time.

If a schedule has only a start time, then any additional schedules which are set to run later in time will run sequentially - each according to their specific start time.

So today I programmed the following in, to simulate sunrise/daylight/sunset/night.

First column is the time, second is the brightness percentage:

08:00 - 1%
08:10 - 2%
08:20 - 4%
08:30 - 8%
08:45 - 16%
09:00 - 32%
09:15 - 64%
09:30 - 80%
10:00 - 100%
20:00 - 80%
20:15 - 64%
20:30 - 32%
20:45 - 16%
21:00 - 8%
21:10 - 4%
21:20 - 2%
21:30 - 1%
21:40 - OFF

Should have additional progress to report on soon.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Nice project and an enjoyable read. Any updates and maybe photos of what you've done? I'm planning a similar smaller scale project and researching ideas.


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