# New to the site. Planning first Cichlid tank



## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Good evening all.

My name's James. 15 years old and from UK, been keeping fish for around 6-7 years now. Always eager to learn new things about this fantastic hobby! 

As mentioned, i'm no stranger to fishkeeping. Have kept a variety of tropical freshwater fish and i've got a good knowledge of most aspects :thumb:

Anyway, in the near future i am planning on keeping and breeding the good old Convict Cichlid! Currently got a proven matched breeding pair on reserve until im ready for them. Here's what i've got planned so far...

Tank Size: 48" L x 15" W x 15" H. (Which if im correct calculates at approximately 47 US Gallons.) 
Filtration: Tetratec EX 7-00 (700lph)
Substrate/Decor: Was planning on going with regular aguarium gravel, about 3" deep to allow the convicts to dig spawning sites etc... Would like to use broken up clay pots and pipes for caves and hiding places, possibly also slate and maybe rounded pebbles. As for plants, I wasn't intending on using many if any at all due to Convicts boisterous and plant eating habits! :lol:

As this will be a new tank, im obviously going to need to mature the filter. Rather than waiting for this to happen in the regular way. I was considering taking mature media from one or two of my already mature filters, and adding my fish straight away. Im currently running another EX-700 on a smaller tank which has been running for approximately 6-7 months now.

I was also thinking about splitting the tank in half with a divider. This way i could seperately raise one batch of fry on one side, whilst the parents were spawning a new set of eggs on the other. This way i could have a good supply of fish to sell on to local fish stores, other aquarists and also use them as feeders for some of my other fish.

Anyways. Have been doing alot of reading up. So im fairly clued up and ready for the new arrivals! 
Like i say, always eager to expand my knowledge! Would love to hear form you guys. Be it advice, experiences, suggestions or just about anything really!


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## csaxe21 (Jun 7, 2009)

Sounds like you have a good start!

Personally, I've never kept convicts, but from what I know, your tank size sounds great and has an excellent footprint. The only advice I can really give would be to keep a friendly ratio of males to females as to avoid aggression and be aware of the amount of spawning that's happening, because I'm told they can really begin to appear out of know where and overstock the tank :lol:.

The only thing I'd be a little concerned about is splitting the tank, because I think it may be cutting the space for the adults and babies a little short IMO. Don't take my word for it though , there are plenty of convict experts here who could definitely shine some more light on the situation then I did 

Best of luck!


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Hi, and welcome to CF!

Your tank sounds like a good size for spawning convicts, but if you half it, it will be a little on the small side, so I wouldn't recommend it. Convicts are a fun fish to keep and a good one to start with in cichlids as many of us have done, myself included. However, after I showed up with the third bag of convict fry at my LFS within a few months (I was 10 at the time), the guy started hiding behind the counter or in the back room whenever he saw me walk up to his store. They also aren't a great feeder fish, since Convict fry have a way of evading or even standing up to even the most aggressive predators. However, convicts are a great at teaching you about supply and demand, more particularly about the case where supply seems limitless and demand is super low :wink:

Consider a coarse sand like pool filter sand as substrate. Convicts really do like digging, and you will be able to observe this natural behavior a lot better if you use sand instead of gravel. You don't need plants, but there are a lot of plants that don't like to root in the substrate, and hence can not be dug up. _Anubias sp._ and Java fern can be attached to rocks and driftwood, and generally work very well with digging cichlids.



HatchettUK said:


> As this will be a new tank, I'm obviously going to need to mature the filter. Rather than waiting for this to happen in the regular way. I was considering taking mature media from one or two of my already mature filters, and adding my fish straight away. Im currently running another EX-700 on a smaller tank which has been running for approximately 6-7 months now.


That should work just fine.

Enjoy!

Frank


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

Frank put it rather delicately, but he is absolutely right. Convict fry are hard to give away, let alone sell. If you are interested in breeding cichlids maybe try Kribensis. Kribs are way less aggressive than Cons and just as reliable at breeding. They also don't destroy plants, except perhaps a bit of gardening in front of their spawning cave.

To get good genes for your breeding line take your time and find the best looking most colorful fish you can find.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

> The only advice I can really give would be to keep a friendly ratio of males to females as to avoid aggression


maybe start off with multiple males and females but once a male and females has paired get the rest outta there...a breeding pair will be very beligerent.

if you get a proven pair then get ready for babies and lots of em. i would just let them rid it out in the tank without a divider

my experience was similar to fmeullers...my lfs was happy to take all my juvies for store credit until after about the 3rd batch


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Hello again.

Would firstly like to thank all of the above for a warm welcome and your quick responses! Appreciated. 

Thanks for the advice, won't be splitting the tank in half then!  Shall leave them to their own devices! Probably best anyway.

If i were to consider tank mates, what would be suitable for my tank?

Thanks,
James


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

larger species that can hold their own in a fight


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

that's the problem with cons. You're asking for trouble. Not all cons are the same, some pairs will do fine with similar sized cichlids, while others will kill everything in the tank.


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Thought that might be the case...

Is there any way of testing their temperement? Or is it just not worth the risk?

I was considering the possibility of having Metynnis hypsauchen along with them.

James


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Just a quick update on the tank.

Got the stand built and the tank full of water. Unfortunately the filter leaks and I am awaiting a new O-ring. Buying more gravel and other decor this weekend, so the tank isn't anything special, work in progress :-D

I've built the stand out of concrete blocks, which were frozen solid due to all the snow we've had recently. So of course i had to dry them out...









Then built the stand out of the 18 standard concrete blocks piled on top of each other...









Used an offcut of beech worktop for a base, and placed an inch of flooring underlay on top of that. Plonked the tank on and threw in some old gravel, a cly pot i found, and this is what I got! 









Not sure why this one came out yellow-ish. My photo skills leave little to be desired unfortunatley 

Obviously not yet complete, planning on adding more terracotta towards the right hand side, and assorted pebbles/slates etc towards to the left. Giving the pair plenty of spawning sites to choose from.

Will post more pictures as the tank progressses 

Cheers
James


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

It is looking good. I think silver dollars would be a good choice to add as dither fish for your cons. They should be fast a robust enough to handle abuse. It also may be helpful to have fish in there with them so the parents have something to protect their fry from so they donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t turn on each other. DonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t get "too" many though as your tank will quickly cramp up. I think three should be good in you 4 foot tank with two cons.

I personally like fake plants to go with Central American cichlids. You can get good prices on ones with ceramic bases on eBay and they will provide hiding for fry when your cons spawn.

Although it may be tough to sell the fry, it is worth a try to at least get some store credit to buy food or other needed items/accessories.

Keep us posted,

Thanks,
Matt


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Hi all.

Thanks for the input, will put some more thought into dither fish. What sort of options do I have other than the Silver Dollars ? Im assuming anything fast and robust?

Yes, was cosidering some fake plants, it's difficult to find decent looking ones. But that might just be me. Never been a fan of them. Although some of the 'silk' ones don't look to bad. Would obviously prefer live plants, but this could be a problem. Especially if I have the Dollars! 

As far as im concered with fry, i'll hopefully sell/trade for credit as many as I can. But after that i'd be more than happy to give them to LFS's for nothing. Builds store relationships 

Thanks

James


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## aspen (Jun 15, 2004)

looks good. i assume the pot is the spawning site. i like to put it opposite the filter- the fast moving water on 1 side, quiet side for baby fish on the other side. also, i like to put a sponge sleeve over the intake where there are babies involved. i use the sponge cartridges for the fluval internal filters, with a tie wrap over the end.

if you get good fish, and keep them right you'll be likely to get a spawn in the first week or 2. this happens to me all of the time. so be ready with baby food. the biggest reason people will want your fish is because you raised them right with lots of good food and regular water changes. many will tell you that c/a cichlids have a rep for easy raising which is true, but the condition of them will be evidence of good fishkeeping from the first week.

good luck, rick


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

There are three plants that you should try: Java moss, because it's good for the fry and fish don't eat it and can't really damage it. Java fern anchored to driftwood is also tough enough to stand a lot of abuse.

Last: potted Amazon swords. These take a bit of effort and investment. You will need 4" non glazed flower pots and some African violet soil. both are commonly available at garden stores. (less than $10 for a few pots and a 10LB bag of soil). Then you need to soak the soil for several days and remove all floaty bits. Then you fill the pot 2/3 full of soil, poke a hole with your finger in the middle and plant the sword in there. Top up with gravel and pour a bit of water in the pot. This makes everything settle. Then pull up the sword to the point where the base of the plant is showing but the roots are not. The swords do not require a lot of light and will grow big and beautiful. Once you get the hang of growing them like this you will have a great item to sell or trade.

good luck with your cons.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

i would do a pair of cons and call it a day.

keep in mind how big silver dollars get...a 55 would be way too small for just one grown silver dollar and their not the easiest fish to get rid of


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## pugwash (Sep 11, 2006)

Could put a female salvini in there - an ambush predator that grows to a similar size.

Or a raphael cat that'll snack at night time.


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Hmmmm, this is obviously something I need to think about.

Just out of concern, what's the chances of the parents turning aggressive on each other? Wouldn't want to wake up one morning to find my male has kicked the living [email protected] out of the female. I'll have a look around the LFS tommorrow. There must be some suitable dithers out there! 

James


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

dither fish are primarily to keep some of the more timid cichlids more comfortable in their tanks. Convicts don't generally have a problem being the sole occupants and they won't be alone for long. Just keep a divider handy in case. Aggression tends to escalate over a few days and is not immediately lethal.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

you might want to consider a catfish for fry control or something for fry control since your lfs is gonna start to avoid you after awhile...


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Hi all. Quick update for you all.

After much pratting about with the filter. I have decided to send it back for a refund and 'borrow' a mature one from another tank. So I've effectively cloned the tank 

Bought myself a GORGEOUS piece of Sumatran driftwood (the more twig like stuff). It wasn't cheap, but it really does look amazing in the tank. Also got myself a large bag of river washed pebbles/cobbles. Some nice stones in there. So i've added a fair amount out of the bag with plenty to spare! Will get some pictures up tomorrow.

Also introduced the pair yesterday. Appear to be settling well. Exploring the tank together and such... They seem to be showing signs of possible spawning already. The male seems to occupy the plant pot and try to get the females attention, and the female has also started to dig out some pits in various places of the substrate. So im looking forward to hopefully seeing some eggs soon! 

I don't know if it's just me being paranoid. But neither of them seem to be interested in food at this point. I've tried floating 'Hikari' Cichlid pellets and flake to no avail. Hopefully they are still settling in and this isn't a sign of a problem...?

As for a catfish/fry control. I've got a question about that. If i were to introduce a catfish or something similiar. Would they not wipe out (eat) all of the eggs and or fry during the night? Or will the pair be able to fend off predators at night too?

Many thanks in advance guys!

Pics tomorrow! 

James


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Hey all.

Pictures as promised 
As i've previously mentioned, i'm not a photographer  so these pictures aren't great, and don't really do the tank or fish any justice!  I'll try get some better pictures of the fish themselves, but they seem to turn quite timid when i go near the tank. Still settling in I guess.
Any comments welcomed 

Full tank shots

























Fish Shots

















And my Lovely piece of wood. Best thing i've ever bought 









And a link to a short video on youtube: 




Been thinking about fry control fish. Would a trio of Clown Loaches work? The tank is more than big enough to support them. However i'm still concerned that whatever I put into the tank, they will eat all of my fry and eggs. Can anyone shed some light onto this?

The pair have dug out a large pit in the gravel underneath the flowerpot, and i've also observed them lip-locking and slapping each other with their tails. So hoping to see some eggs very soon now! 

Thanks Guys


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

A couple of tips to make your tank pop a bit more: Put your heater horizontal right near, but not touching the gravel. Paint the back of your tank black or very deep blue. Get some Java fern and tie it to the driftwood. Get some java moss and pile it loosely in one corner or cover the heater with it. This will harbor infusoria for your soon to come fry to snack on.

With the arrangement of stuff you have in there don't add any fish unless you have a tank ready to transfer them out if needed. there is no place for anything to hide and nothing breaking up the sight lines, so the cons will defend the whole tank.


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks for the input Pistolpete.

Im slightly weary about adding live plants. As you can see i haven't got much in the way of lighting on the tank. Just a very small light in the centre of the tank. So im not too sure...

I've got another tank I could transfer fish to if need be. Can also add some more rockwork, plenty of it left. Still concerned about anything I add eating the fry though...

Again, Thanks for the input. Appreciated 

James
:fish:


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

Java fern is a low light plant. Just get one and see how it does. They are slow growing, so it the first one grows get a couple more to dress up that gorgeous piece of wood.

Since you are obviously on a bit of a budget, I would suggest getting two desk lamps (the type that arch up and over and have a shade) from a second hand store. Put in the energy saving twisty bulbs and you will have lots of light.

A pair of cons raising their fry is entertaining enough. If you get bored with it in a year or so, try experimenting with more fish in there.


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks again for the input  Will try out some ferns.

I must air a slight concern I have at the minute. The male seems to be harrasing the female quite heavily. Chasing her round the tank at quite high speeds. Can't see any damage to either fish. But should i be concerned?

James


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

keep an eye on the situation, feed them well, turn the temperature down about 2 degrees and turn the lights off for a day. that may let them re-think their marital spat.


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Right okay, thanks. Is this a common occurence with Convicts?

With regards to feeding. That's something else I'm having difficulty with. They just don't seem interested in any food i try to give them. Pellets, flakes, bloodworms both freeze dried and jellied.

The chasing is getting worse. A little concerned now :/

Thanks again


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

A bit of chasing is ok, but if you find one fish with faded colors, hiding in a corner or near the surface, you should intervene. Your tank is new, was it properly cycled? test your water and maybe do a large water change with de-chlorinated water.


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

I cloned the tank from an existing one by taking mature media. I've done this in the past, never had any problems. The chasing seems to have died down. And I managed to get them to feed earlier. So fingers crossed. Will keep you posted 

Thanks
James


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

A quick update for those interested 

Female laid eggs on Monday night/Tuesday Morning. Female looking after them well. Male doesn't seem to be showing any interest in the spawning, as I approach the tank, he abandons the female and eggs and hides underneath the driftwood. Is this something I should be concerned about??

Another quick question... When it comes to it, what's the best way of removing the fry to be raised in a seperate tank? I imagine it will be quite difficult to net 100 odd fry from such a large tank...

Many Thanks
James


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

the fry grow better when left with the parents. I hope you have some microworm cultures ready.


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

I understand that. But I've heard that once the parents are ready to spawn again they will eat their fry... Is this true?

Whats the best size to seperate them?

Thanks Again

James


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

I'm not sure about convicts specifically, but most similar cichlids will leave their fry alone. You will find out with your first spawn. Normally I'd recommend removing the fry when they are about 1cm long.


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Then i shall remove them at that size 

Whats the best food to feed the young? Culturing live foods isn't really an option (don't ask).

Would maggots be suitable? Or perhaps smaller meal worms. I can source both of these easily on a regular basis 

Thanks
James


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

HatchettUK said:


> Whats the best food to feed the young? Culturing live foods isn't really an option (don't ask).
> 
> Would maggots be suitable? Or perhaps smaller meal worms.


I do not tink these would be good food for fry, they will be much larger than the fry even. The parents should have small particles of food coming out of their gils when they eat that the fry can eat. You can also crush up flake food for the fry.

Thanks,
Matt


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## HatchettUK (Jan 6, 2010)

Okay thanks 

Eggs have turned into wrigglers now  Getting excited!

Thanks

James


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## pistolpete (Dec 28, 2009)

so james, how is your convict experiment proceeding? Curious minds want to know.


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