# Help with new Saulosi



## murf5 (Sep 29, 2013)

Hi all,

I'm new here but have been lurking the forums for advice on stocking and setting up my aquarium. After a few months of setting up the tank and cycling the water I finally got 9 saulosi juvies this Tuesday. Already I am having issues. On the first night I noticed one of the them was very pale compared to the others, had slightly red gills and was mostly staying around the filter intake/heater. It seemed to get worse and eventually was always hiding under rocks and not moving. It seemed like the largest of the pack was bullying this fish in particular as well as some of the others so I separated this bully from the tank. I also added some salt to the aquarium and fed it some peas thursday and yesterday noticed it had stringy white poop hanging from the back of it. This morning I woke up to it dead  .

Yesterday I noticed another fish exhibiting similar behaviors as the one that passed this morning. It is almost always around the top of the tank by the filter intake and today is looking much paler than the rest of the fish. I also thought I saw some stringy white poop hanging off this fish yesterday as well. I fed some peas today and it was very active and had a good petite but still does not look very good and does not move from the top of the aquarium.

I also noticed a third fish that is not pale but is not moving very much and when I fed it looked like it ate a little but was not all over the food like the other fish.

My tank is a 29 gallon
0 Ammonia
0 Nitrate
Nitrate<20 
PH=7.6
Temp=79F

I'm really hoping someone here can help me. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

The White Stringy Feces, Lack Of Appetite, Hiding In The Upper Corners - Sounds Like You've Got A Case Of Bloat Making It's Way Through Your Tank. Read This Post And Start Treatment Right Away - Acting Quickly Is The Only Way To Save Your Fish.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?nomobile=1&f=23&t=24132


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## murf5 (Sep 29, 2013)

I've been thinking it may be bloat but the ones that looked the worst (the one that died and the other one that is pale now) both had good appetites. Would it hurt to start treating for bloat if that ends up not being the issue?


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## miDnIghtEr20C (Aug 13, 2013)

I've heard bloat isn't something that "goes around" the tank. It's an individual thing. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, but I'm just saying. I wonder how true that is.


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## MalawiSeb (Jan 23, 2014)

Saulosi are very territorial, if you have too much male, the stronger's will bite the weaker's one. Juvenile are difficult to identify. Idealy, you shall have aroud 1 male for 3-4 female. And i think your PH is a little too low. I keep My PH at 8.2. Mayby you shall try to get it higher by gently adding baking soda for a couple of day till 8 is reached.

Hope you the best....i have over 200 saulosi at home in different tank....everything fine !


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

miDnIghtEr20C said:


> I've heard bloat isn't something that "goes around" the tank. It's an individual thing. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, but I'm just saying. I wonder how true that is.


While it's not believed that bloat is a contagious illness that gets passed from one fish to another, it often happens where once one fish gets it, others soon do too. This is most likely due to the underlying cause of bloat in the first place, which is generally believed to be environmental in nature (for example: water quality issues, stress caused by aggression, stress from shipping/handling, poor diet, etc.). Bloat often occurs in newly stocked tanks with juvenile fish due to a combination of several of these factors - they've recently been stressed from moving, they're fighting to claim territory and dominance in the new tank, and many new tanks aren't cycled properly. Add to that the common tendency to overfeed juvies to "encourage" growth, and you've got the perfect recipe for a bloat outbreak.

The OP's priority now needs to be treating his fish to cure existing cases and prevent new ones so he doesn't lose any more fish. After that has been accomplished, he'll need to identify and correct the underlying causes of the illness.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

murf5 said:


> I've been thinking it may be bloat but the ones that looked the worst (the one that died and the other one that is pale now) both had good appetites. Would it hurt to start treating for bloat if that ends up not being the issue?


The symptoms your are describing indicate bloat to a T. Watch the fish closely when feeding - they will still be hungry and will appear to eat, but they will often take some food into their mouth and hold it for a few minutes, only to spit it out later. In the very early stages they may even be able to swallow some, but eventually they'll do the spitting it out trick and then stop eating altogether. By the time you notice this, it's usually too late to save them.

If you follow the directions in the link I posted before, it can only help and no harm will be done if they don't have bloat (although, I'm 95% sure they do based on your description). I typically treat new arrivals with metro-laced food for a week or so in a quarantine tank just as a precautionary measure, and I've never had any ill effects from it.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Hey Murf5 - Any New Developments? Did You Start Treatment?


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## murf5 (Sep 29, 2013)

Hey Guys,

Thanks for checking in. I've been meaning to post but just finally got a chance to. I started treatment Sunday. I was unable to find clout by any stores by me but I did find API General Cure which has the same active ingredient as clout.

I was following the instructions on the box which seemed relatively similar to the instructions in the link about clout. I added 3 packets as recommended 48 hours ago. Today I did a 25% water change because I read the packet wrong and thought it said to do the water change today but it actually said only to add 3 more packets. So after I did the 25% water change I added 4 packets to try to make up for the 25% I removed doing the water change. It says to wait another 48 hours and then do a 25% water change.

So far symptoms seem to still be there but neither fish has died that I was worried about. I also have not fed in at least 48 hours and will continue to not feed until the treatment is over. API general cure says treatment is done after 4 days. Should I follow these instructions or try to follow the clout procedure and do an 80% water change on day 4 and dose with API general cure again?


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm not familiar with that API product, but if it has the same ingredients in the same dosage as clout, then I would heed the advice given in the link. This method is tried and true, and has been used successfully by countless members of this forum, myself included. I think the success has to do with that last water change and additional dose which goes above and beyond the recommended treatment to really knock that crud out of the fish's system. That's just my opinion, but it sure has worked.

Glad to hear you haven't lost any more fish - hopefully things will work out for the best. Keep us posted.


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## murf5 (Sep 29, 2013)

So I've completed treatment as according to the bloat cure link. I was using API general cure instead of clout but the one fish still is not acting correctly. I've attached a photo below of what the fish looks like. It is very pale compared to the other 2 saulosi in the background of the picture. Anyone have any other suggestions as to what could be causing this?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I believe general cure has metronidazole and praziquantel as the sole ingredients.

The bottom fish appears to be a very young male going through the transformation to blue/blue barred.


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## murf5 (Sep 29, 2013)

I thought metronidazole was the main ingredient I'm clout or am I mistaken? And do the males exhibit any behavioral changes when they are turning colors? This male is very inactive and looks almost identical to the fish that just died in my tank.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Metronidazole is the ingredient you want, yes.

Do the fish show any signs of improvement?


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## murf5 (Sep 29, 2013)

So I was originally worried about 2 fish. One of these fish was just acting strange and seems to have improved. The other one that is pictured above does not show improvement and tends to hide under rocks all day. It is acting exactly the same as the fish I had die about a week ago.

I ordered clout today. Should I try retreating the tank with clout when it comes?

I'm thinking the best thing to do may be to try to get rid of the sick fish as it is not showing improvements and i am worried other fish will catch whatever it and the fish that died has.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

When do you expect the clout? Is the fish that is hiding away feeding?

I would continue the API for a full 10 days, being sure to use the epsom salt and water change schedule in the article.


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Murf5 - That Fish In The Photo Does Sure Look Like It Has Bloat - Red Gills, Pale Swollen Abdomen, Mouth Agape As If Having Trouble Breathing. As Iggy Suggested, Keep On With The Metro For A Full Ten Days. Just The Fact That This Fish Is Still Alive Lead Me To Believe The Meds Are Working At Least A Little.


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## murf5 (Sep 29, 2013)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> When do you expect the clout? Is the fish that is hiding away feeding?
> 
> I would continue the API for a full 10 days, being sure to use the epsom salt and water change schedule in the article.


I expect the clout early this week. I haven't been feeding while doing the API treatment. I fed for the first time in a week last night and the food was gone so fast I was unable to tell whether the fish hiding away was eating but it was near the surface with the other fish. It was definitely feeding about a week ago before I started treatment.

Should I continue to not feed any fish? I'm treating my whole tank because these are all new fish and they all have potentially been exposed to bloat.

Also I did not see anything about doing epson salt with water changes. How much should I be adding per gallon?

Does the fish below look like it has bloat? It is acting completely normal but its stomach looks a little bloated.

Sorry for all the questions but thank you so much for the help. I'm sure this fish would have passed by now if it wasn't for this forum!


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## nmcichlid-aholic (Mar 23, 2011)

It's Not A Very Clear Picture, But It Does Look Like It's Got A Pretty Big Belly. This Alone Doesn't Mean It Has Bloat, Though - It Could Just Have A Full Belly Especially If It Gorged Itself When You Fed Them For The First Time In A Long Time. Is It Displaying Any Of The Other Symptoms?


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## murf5 (Sep 29, 2013)

nmcichlid-aholic said:


> It's Not A Very Clear Picture, But It Does Look Like It's Got A Pretty Big Belly. This Alone Doesn't Mean It Has Bloat, Though - It Could Just Have A Full Belly Especially If It Gorged Itself When You Fed Them For The First Time In A Long Time. Is It Displaying Any Of The Other Symptoms?


This fish does not appear to be showing any other symptoms now but before I started treatment it was not very active either. Would you recommend me to continue feeding or should I not? I've only fed once in the past week.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

The nice thing about having the Metronidazole powder is the ease in dosing it into food. I suppose you could do something similar by crushing up a tablet of the API stuff but I would have no idea of a proper dosage. If it really is only praziquantel and metro a small pinch could probably be used to dose some food. But as I said, it's only a guess on my part.


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## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Clout is a nuclear bomb. What you should be doing is treating with pure metronidazole. You can get it off the net or at a reputable LFS. Soak some power in water for an hour or so then soak some pellets in that water for about 20 minutes then feed them to the fish, while at the same time liberally adding the metro powder to the aquarium. That worked for my fish when they had bloat. They were saulosi too. Clout, with the myriad of stuff in it, places a great deal of stress on fish, and it'll stain your silicone too.


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