# Driftwood in a mbuna tank



## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

I am in the planning stages for a 180 gallon mbuna tank (72x24x24).

I will likely buy the Malawi Rock 3D background and have three distinct stone piles to separate the 4-5 mbuna species I will have in the tank (Williamsi, Rusties, Yellow Labs, Acei Msuli and a final species TBD).

I was planning to add some driftwood into the tank to add character and create a few more hiding spaces. While I realize some tannin leaching could be an issue, if I buy some African driftwood and properly prepare it whilst I am running the fishless cycle, the amount of tannin bleed thereafter should be marginal, if any.

However, I see that some aquarists claim that the mbuna (or at least some species of mbuna) may end up digesting some of the wood as they graze algae that would grow on it. If that is truly a concern, would it be better to go with artificial driftwood?

My preference would be to go with natural driftwood, but I would appreciate your perspective rather than having to learn from scratch.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

The main issue is the fact that it's not really part of their natural environment. The name Mbuna literally means "rock fish" because they live in and around rocks.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

If it's just a purist perspective, I can live with that. There is bound to be a little wood in the lake, as some mbuna (according to the species descriptions) have specialized to eat the algae of the wood but I realize it's a small subset of the overall mbuna population. However, if their sharp teeth will cause them to strip not just algae but wood as well, it seems at least a plausible theory that the fish may run into digestion issues with wood splinters/fiber.


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## judyok (Aug 12, 2014)

I don't have Mbuna, but I have several Tanganyikan tanks most with driftwood because most have a bristlenose pleco or two in them. The tanks have been setup this way for a few years now and I haven't noticed any ill affects from it.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Biotope aside, as long as the driftwood is in addition to the right amount of rocks and not instead of rocks, nothing wrong with it.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Exactly, there's nothing wrong with it as long as it's not being used as a substitute like DJ said.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

dcheney888 said:


> However, I see that some aquarists claim that the mbuna (or at least some species of mbuna) may end up digesting some of the wood as they graze algae that would grow on it. If that is truly a concern, would it be better to go with artificial driftwood?
> 
> My preference would be to go with natural driftwood, but I would appreciate your perspective rather than having to learn from scratch.


I have had natural driftwood in my Mbuna tank without any problems with the fish possibly rasping off some of the wood. I think I had some Mopani and also had a larger piece of unknown wood bought at a local fish club auction. I doubt if they would remove large enough pieces that would cause digestive problems.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

A DW or 2 is OK, but too many and the tannics may lower the PH and soften the water too much.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Okay - thanks all.

To be clear, this tank will first and foremost be comprised of rock. I hope to get a stable stack of rock up to 18-20" tall on one end of the aquarium, maybe 12-14" on the other end, and to have a more hodgepodge scrabbly mix 4-8" tall in the center of the aquarium. I would then use 2-3 pieces of driftwood to tie the whole scene together and add just a few more nooks and crannies, potentially using the driftwood as a base for a couple plants that would survive the cichlids.

As biotopes go, it may not be the predominant scene experienced in the wild, but there is bound to be the occasional piece of driftwood in these lakes and as long as I don't overplay it, it should work with the fish, add to the viewing experience without adding stuff I find even less worthy of a biotope perspective (flower pots, pvc piping, etc).


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Sounds like a good plan, can't wait to see how it turns out


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Wood is just tooo handy for me to let the question of whether it meets any pure standard. I keep several tanks of, most often, African cichlids and always have wood in them. Not only is it much easier shape for hiding things but it is a great way to move plants out of the danger zone for digging. They never dig up off the floor and it is a whole lot easier to hollow out wood to form a pocket of dirt than it is to chisel out rocks! 
I might guess that there are twice as many people who try to talk trash than there are people who actually try to help you. The hobby is full of people downing a project when they have never tried it. Or do those folks just show up more on forums?? 
I have a hard time with the picture of a fish who would eat wood even if it killed him. Seems natural selection might keep that from going too far.

EDIT: 
Pick the wood which is totally dry all the way through to help avoid tannins. Tannins mostly come from the moisture so once the moisture is all gone, so are the tannins.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

I have only been on this site about a month and the feedback and guidance I have received is very constructive and helpful. Moderators help balance observations that are less well founded on facts, but even then the clarifications made by the moderators aid my understanding even more.

While I will own the future success or failures of my tank, I really appreciate all those who are helping me improve my odds of getting it (at least mostly) right on the first pass.

Cheers all!


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I rarely expect to get something this complex totally right. I just go on a different idea. 
Look, learn and adapt as needed!

In other words? Be prepared to fix what I screw up the first time!


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

I don't mind and will make mistakes, even if following a well hewn path. That said, I would prefer to avoid the more obvious errors as I will have enough learning challenges without needlessly adding a spanner in the works.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

We use driftwood in several of our tanks and have had no problems.


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## dcheney888 (Jul 30, 2017)

Thanks all.

That's enough reassurance for me to move forward with a few pieces of driftwood. Not as primary cover, but just as a few accent pieces to help draw together my rock piles and provide a couple additional hidey holes.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

If you like to work with wood, there are lots of things that you can do with it that are real handy once finished. One problem with wood is that it tends to float so that can also work well if you cut the inside out of the piece. It makes the wood soak up faster as more is exposed, it has less bulk to float and then if you get real interested, the opening can serve as fish hiding or a place to hide equipment like heaters, powerheads, etc. 
Or you can go full bore and hide the powerhead and use the outside as a way to get plants up out of the digging space. This white one is still getting the color back after I did the bleach soak but it will get the dark color like the one hiding in the corner. The corner wood hides the heater and filter intake while this middle one is a way to hide a mid tank powerhead that I needed to fluff the big sword. Both will be used to glue various plants as this has tank a variety of cichlids who do tend to pick pull and dig on plants down lower. Making the wood tall lets me run the power cord up to the center bar where it is not seen and the bar also holds the wood in place, making it easy to get the powerhead out when I need to clean it. 
Wood is GOOD!


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

PfunMo said:


> Pick the wood which is totally dry all the way through to help avoid tannins. Tannins mostly come from the moisture so once the moisture is all gone, so are the tannins.


PfunMo - How do you keep the wood dry in the tank?

Sorry about the dig at you, but this one was irresistible to me 

There are some woods that are more susceptible to leach tannins, and some that are less. If you have the former, it does not matter one bit how dry the wood was when you put it in the tank, because the wood is sure to be wet when it's submerged!

Personally, I used to have a huge piece of driftwood in a tropheus tank at some stage, and I still believe it would have worked just fine, if not - unbeknownst to me - the wood had started rotting at the back, where I could not see it. Since the piece was so large that is was almost impossible to remove from the thank, I lost the entire colony of tropheus before I realized what the problem was. Just seeing driftwood in an African tank now makes me sick to the stomach, because I think of those tropheus. But if you have good quality wood that does not rot, and maybe swap it out once every few years, all should be good.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

You are probably correct in questioning my post. I work with wood a lot and dry and green are just common in my thinking which is not true of some readers. I refer to dry wood before adding to the tank as it will certainly be wet in the tank. 
But then the point is to not add tannins, the tank water will not have tannins so when that water penetrates the wood and it is then wet, there is no problem. 
Keeping from adding the tannins as we add the wood is what I work to prevent. 
Perhaps some ideas of how to judge wood would help for those who don't work wood very often. It is a bit of "feel" at times but not that difficult. 
When looking at potential wood for the tank, "feel" is a good place to start. Feel how heavy the wood is compared to other wood of the same size. Water/moisture/sap/tannin is heavy so get the light wood! This is easy to spot if you go to a lumber yard and lift a 2X4 and then lift a treated 2X4 which has moisture forced into it. 
Second look for signs that the wood has been dead for a long time. Bark is one of the first things to drop off wood as it dries so if there is still a full bark on the wood, it is not likely to be dry to the extent that the tannins are gone. Dry to the touch, perhaps but totally dry, not likely. We want the wood which is TOTALLY dry all the way through. 
How to know what's inside? You got to look! Saw a bit off the larger portion and look at the color. If it is pretty much uniform color from the outside to inner layers, it is likely to be dry all the way through. The wood dries from the outside to inside and changes color as it does. When choosing wood, don't bother to choose a pleasing color as it is not likely to stay the same as it soaks in the tank. White wood like the commonly sold "ghostwood" will often turn out to be dark when it soaks and reverts to the natural color.
This is an example of wood that is fully dry. It is a large hunk of old cedar/ juniper which had been outside for 15-20 years so that it was totally dry. Note that there are some darker spots near the branches and this is acceptable as those spots are more dense and do dry slower. 
But once totally dry, I find even cedar is usable. No sap, no moisture, no tannin. But you do have to learn to "read" the wood.
The piece in the tank. Sorry, it was my plastic plant phase! Bottom side which I had shaped to make space for fish to hide under. Top side.
You might note how much darker it got once fully wet again?


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## dakkon227 (Aug 4, 2017)

Don't worry too much about the tannins, I'm using several large pieces of driftwood that tinted my water like tea. Add 2 bags of Purigen, 1-2 days later = no more tannins. See pics below for before and after.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

add the in the filter, right?...


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Purigen is a really good itme and does seem to work very well. However, I would still want to look at what job we give it. The wood pictured is certainly wood that has been dead and dry for a long time. That gives it a very good chance of not having much tannin left in it. The point being that dead wood will not have much tannin but green wood with lots of sap left may need Purigen for weeks or months while it slowly releases the tannin in it. 
So it can get down to how you want to work the problem. Get more particular with the wood or be ready to deal with clearing any tannin that you find if wood is not totally dry. 
Neither way is bad nor good, just a matter of how we like our poison. :roll:


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

joselepiu said:


> add the in the filter, right?...


meant to say: add the Purigen in the filter, right?..


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Yes, the purigen goes in the filter


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Any place where the water will flow through it. If the filter is a problem, it can also be placed near the outlet or other places. This comes into play if using a HOB which doesn't have lots of space so putting the bag under the return can work at times.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

How would you place a bag of purigen under a HOB return? Just curious...


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Form a plastic mesh net box and support it with a wire frame. The water pours in at the top when it comes out of the filter. As long as the Purigen gets water flowing over, around and through it works the same as in a canister.


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