# Cyathopharynx foai care



## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

Hello all. Been doing alot of reading on these lately, and by alot of reading I mean *** been scouring the internet for what few sources I can find about these.

My main concern is if I can successfully keep foai long term in a 100g (60in x 20in x 20) if i get a group of 2m 5f in a species only setup. The middle of the tank set as a rocky with some tall fake plants to break the lines of sight.

For filtration *** got 2 hagen 70s and a fluval 405. Along with multiple 10% wcs throughout the week, and the occational larger wc every week or so.


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## kitana8 (Jan 20, 2010)

I wouldn't do it, for the simple reason that I consider the length of the tank not to be enough.

I've been keeping C. furcifer for 3 years, and these fish needs lots of space. I'm not even talking about the bowers, but about the breeding parades that are absolutely crazy, very fast and very dangerous for the male's eyes and face in particular as he bumps into things when breeding.

A friend saw them in the wild, and their bowers were 5 meters wide. That's over 15 feet. This friend, along with most Europeans who keep Cyathopharynx, will tell you that even a 2 meter / 6 foot tank is way too small for them.

That being said, I know that people keep them and breed them in very small tanks, smaller than yours. I think that there is no right or wrong way to keep them, as long as they have enough space and good maintenance, but it goes down to the experience you want to have with your fish. Do you want to cram them in a small space and see what they do, or do you want to experience the most of the behaviors of the species?


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## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

I prefer to keep my fish in as optimal conditons as I can. Im really set on foai, but if I cant safely keep them in the best interest of the fish as well than I wont. My main reason for wanting them was the flashy breeding exhibits and the bowl building. IF a small group can comfortably live in my tank I will get some. I came here for input. Should I look into one of the other featherfins? *** tried opthalmotilapia ventralis, bought 12 of them to grow out in a 72x12x12 (inches) and within 3 months they all slaughtered each other. Im a little hesitant to try them again after that experience...

Also, what is the life span of featherfins, because i was shocked and sad when i found out that enantiopus are short lived.


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## m1ke715m (Jul 26, 2012)

foai are much less aggressive than ventralis.. the males are a bit rough on each other but not like ventralis.. in a 4ft tank you could do 1 male and the rest females.. you might not want to do 2 males.. although having 2 males makes them breed easier cuz the males dont like each other


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## Cooder (Jul 19, 2011)

So im guessing the bigger the tank the better,

How many could fit in a bare sand and maybe a few rocks in the middle, in a 6x2x2 180 gal? maybe 2 males the rest females?

What was they lifespan of enantiopus? it cant be that bad...

*** heard that furcifers are hard to keep and only really work in big tanks, plus they can be boring and hard to get the males to colour up, but when they do... WOW


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## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

My issue is that i live in an apartment and am a college student. This 100g is the largest tank *** had, and the largest tank I will have until i graduate in 2-3 years. *** got a small bedroom and I could barely fit this tank in the door, I couldnt imagine trying to move a 180 lol. I guess Ill move on to something different.

The ectodus descampsii seems like a really interesting fish that would make a cool species tank. Was able to find a few posts about them and a few translated web pages gave me a little more info. Nowhere near as colorful as the foai, but 3-4 males would be doable in my tank and they build bowers  Theyre like a mini featherfin, although cichlid forum has them under "tanganyika oddities".

Oh and I found in a few places that 3-4 years is ancient for kilesa.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Have you looked into these guys?

http://aquafisher.org.ua/wp-content/upl ... windti.jpg


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## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

Yes i have a little bit. Theyre pretty cool, they seem like theyre a foai but half the size. They seem more aggressive though. IDK, i know they arnt really colorful but I kinda like the ectodus descampsii more every time I look at them. They have a long lifespan, they stay small but exhibit the behaviors Im looking for, not as aggressive, prolific breeders, and the males have pretty crazy finnage to them.


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## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

I will look closer into the aulonocranus as well though.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

You wouldn't have any problem with having 1 male C.foai and multi females.I have 2 wild male Kigomas in a 6 ft tank with no issues.The dominant male is quite a bit larger than the other so they don't but heads during spawning time.Only the dominant male makes a bower during spawning season and that only happens when a female is ready.

Check out Ophthalmotilapia nasuta,they get big and impressive with less aggression than ventralis.They also maintain their color much better than any other featherfin.


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## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

dmiller328 said:


> You wouldn't have any problem with having 1 male C.foai and multi females.I have 2 wild male Kigomas in a 6 ft tank with no issues.The dominant male is quite a bit larger than the other so they don't but heads during spawning time.Only the dominant male makes a bower during spawning season and that only happens when a female is ready.
> 
> Check out Ophthalmotilapia nasuta,they get big and impressive with less aggression than ventralis.They also maintain their color much better than any other featherfin.


My tank is only 5ft. And foai will eventually get to 8-9". My tank is only 20" wide and i dont think thatd be too fair to them. Ill look into nasutu and MAYBE ventralis. Im having a hard time finding suppliers of these fish.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

I have Dewindti. Their behavior is interesting, but the coloring is not great, except a little brighter when spawning. Helpfully, the Dewindti spawn incessantly! You could combine them with other species , though. I had Tropheus, Dewinti, and Gobies in my 5 ft 120, even had a few Petros in for a while. I now have my 8 Dewinti in a 55 with Comps, J. Ornatus, and a Occie pair. I think in a 100 gallon, 8-12 Cyps, 8-12 Dewindti, and 2-3 small species for the bottom of the tank (Comps, smaller Julie, Gobies, Shellies) would make a nice tank for you.


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## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

Do cyps interfere/disturb spawning or behaviors of the dewindti? Im mostly looking at keeping a species tank.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

If you are only doing a species tank, I'd suggest Trophs or Cyps. Dewindti are an almost all silver tank. I haven't kept Cyps with them, but even my Petros and Trophs didn't stop the breeding.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Just my two cents worth. I have kept Furcifer, Foai, Ventralis and Nasutas. The w/c Nasutas are by far the most aggresive fish I have ever kept.
I always thought that they would be calmer than Ventralis, but that didn't turn out to be the case. I have them in a 6' 210g tank.


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## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

Floridagirl said:


> If you are only doing a species tank, I'd suggest Trophs or Cyps. Dewindti are an almost all silver tank. I haven't kept Cyps with them, but even my Petros and Trophs didn't stop the breeding.


*** already had the cyprichromis experience with some utintas in a 55g a few years ago. Luckily When i sold the group i had never lost any of them due to wasting away, they were always fat healthy and vibrant. Tropheus just dont hold my interest for some reason. Im not really too worried about color, the bright silvers are kinda pretty. Im trying to break it down to if i want to do ectodus or aulonocranus now. I found a source for both, and both are roughly the same price.

If i were to do species only of the aulonocranus how many would you recomend? I was thinking of buying around 10 so if I dont get a nice M/F ratio i can just get rid of males.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

My experience with O.nasuta is with tank raised fish and they were for me less aggressive than tank raised O.ventralis.I had a wild caught male ventralis that would chase constantly.Sometimes giving these fish more aquarium room does not help the aggression as it just gives them more to fight for,our aquariums are artificial environments and there is no such thing as optimal natural conditions in them.Aggression also depends on the particular group and ratio.Sometimes having extra males helps spread the aggression around more than just having 2 males in a tank.

Hey apmorgan have you considered keeping Enantiopus sand sifters?


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## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

dmiller328 said:


> My experience with O.nasuta is with tank raised fish and they were for me less aggressive than tank raised O.ventralis.I had a wild caught male ventralis that would chase constantly.Sometimes giving these fish more aquarium room does not help the aggression as it just gives them more to fight for,our aquariums are artificial environments and there is no such thing as optimal natural conditions in them.Aggression also depends on the particular group and ratio.Sometimes having extra males helps spread the aggression around more than just having 2 males in a tank.
> 
> Hey apmorgan have you considered keeping Enantiopus sand sifters?


Ya, they are actually one of my favorites. *** read theyre really shortlived though and thats what is holding me back on those.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

dmiller328 said:


> You wouldn't have any problem with having 1 male C.foai and multi females.I have 2 wild male Kigomas in a 6 ft tank with no issues.The dominant male is quite a bit larger than the other so they don't but heads during spawning time.Only the dominant male makes a bower during spawning season and that only happens when a female is ready.
> 
> Check out Ophthalmotilapia nasuta,they get big and impressive with less aggression than ventralis.They also maintain their color much better than any other featherfin.


Can't argue with that bud. My bruiser:


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

apmorgan93 said:


> dmiller328 said:
> 
> 
> > My experience with O.nasuta is with tank raised fish and they were for me less aggressive than tank raised O.ventralis.I had a wild caught male ventralis that would chase constantly.Sometimes giving these fish more aquarium room does not help the aggression as it just gives them more to fight for,our aquariums are artificial environments and there is no such thing as optimal natural conditions in them.Aggression also depends on the particular group and ratio.Sometimes having extra males helps spread the aggression around more than just having 2 males in a tank.
> ...


I have never read that, I have read that they have a short spawning life. How about some xeno papilios?










Not for the faint hearted though.


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## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

Once theyre spawning life is up do their colors go away and do they stop building nests?


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

For reference, here is a quick Iphone view of Dewindti, with my holding female, and an older video of them with the Trophs and Petros.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

Wow nice X.papilios and gold nasuta Noddy!!

With the Enantiopus they breed for 2 years or so and live around 4 years or more.I had a wild male xenotilapia ochrogenys that I bought at 3.5 in and he got close to 5 inches after having him for 3 years before he died and still had great color.

If you decide to go with sand sifters I would grow out a batch of fry after they breed for about a year and keep replenishing the group.I did not do that with my wild Xenos and now I am waiting for my group of F1s to get big enough to start breeding.

I have a young group of E.kilesa and I really enjoy the constant color display of the males.The males of them are not aggressive unlike the males of Xenotilapia ochrogenys.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

dmiller328 said:


> Wow nice X.papilios and gold nasuta Noddy!!
> 
> With the Enantiopus they breed for 2 years or so and live around 4 years or more.I had a wild male xenotilapia ochrogenys that I bought at 3.5 in and he got close to 5 inches after having him for 3 years before he died and still had great color.
> 
> ...


That's what I'm doing with my kilesa now. I have never kept any sand sifters long enough for them to die off, I always buy fry/juvies though.
P.S, the KIpili Nasuta female is holding as of last night :dancing:


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## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

UPDATE!!!!

Found 3 electric blue rams at petco, and long story short they didnt know what they were so they sold them to me for $7 each. Had tryed rams in smaller tanks unsuccessfully so thought id give it another. Two weeks later I got 4 GBRs to go with them as well. All of them were drip acclimated for quite awhile. The EBRs did great, but 2 GBRs died right away. Replaced them. Over the period of the next week 3 more of the GBRs wasted away. Not really sure why but the stress from it caused the dominant male EBR to die. No fin damage, no sunk in stomach. I was really disappointed, after having him for 3 weeks he had really gotten settled and was really striking.

I also noticed that one of the other EBRs (who i assumed to be younger male) was getting skinnier everyday despite being excited and aggressive towards food. Once i focused on just that individual i found out that it was swimming towards food..... and then stop. It wouldnt eat.... I feed my fish a varied diet, typically cycling through different frozen foods, pellets, and flakes so i tested this fish with a little bit of everything. Didnt matter what type of food, it'd approach it and either ignore it from there on out, or mouth at it only to spit it back out whole. Ended up dying shortly after.

Now im down to one GBR and one EBR, i believe both are female :/ so my intentions of breeding are now gone. The GBR fattened up, colored up, and looks great. The EBR just looks O.K. but was never very colorful compared to the other 2 anyways. Im not gonna risk buying any more Rams because im done, i shouldnt have left the rift lake species......
Enought of that rant.

Im thinking about ordering some Enantiopus. Just gonna take my chances i suppose. After some searching *** found the options of getting either E. kilesa, or E. melanogenys Zambia for the same price, except shipping being different because one is aloooooot closer. Not sure if Enants ship well or not? Guess i got somethin to look into. Are there any differences in nest building between the two?

On a side note, almost every picture *** seen shows them over white colored sand, is this to look natural or does it bring out the color better? My sand and is black.


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## apmorgan93 (Jan 29, 2013)

Oh my god I forgot how long it had been since I watched Jewels of the Rift!!!!! Answered alot of questions. Cyathopharynx is in it and after seeing how it displays naturally and how big of a space it claimed (at 4:40 he went waaaay out of his way to flare at something) I would feel bad keeping them in anything smaller than a giant in-wall tank or pond. Hopefully ill have my engineering degree in 2-3 years though so one day this may be feasible 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... AOIKE&NR=1

It also answered my question about the nests, at 7:14 they show what looks like Melanogenys Zambia with simple bowls where as the Kilesa make sand castle looking things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... -gOPo&NR=1

With that in mind im kinda leaning towards the kilesa. Can anyone say from experience how big the bowls of either are? Im thinking that a group of 8-10 would be a good start. And then I could sell extra males if it was problem.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

I like all varieties of Enantiopus but at the same price I would go with the Kilesa.They have yellow throats unlike any other location and are found around Kavalla Island in the Congo which until recently rarely had collections.

They ship overnight fine for me.I would get at least 10 because they are usually 50/50 ratio to somewhat male heavy.They may have a higher male % than many other mouth brooders because of the higher predation of the colorful males in shallow water from fish and birds but that is just me speculating.

Enantiopus do not build very big pits, about 6-8 inches in diameter.


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