# no success with angels



## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

i have an established 29 gallon tank which is planted with some driftwood. tank is in a transition phase as i moved the guys that have been in it to a bigger tank. now i am trying to find a nice angel that can call it home. right now i have some otos, the two biggest mollies of all time and two guppies. i also have a nice marbled angelfish who i want to grow up and call the tank home, but i am not doing something right. i just got him cause the koi i had for a week died. now my marbled is acting like the first... not eating, hides all day in a tiny spot under some wood, fins stay down and he looks scared and skittish. not how he was when i bought him, i picked him cause he was lively and bright.

my ph is neutral, around 7, temp at 80, change 20 percent of water 1 or 2 times a week, all pretty standard stuff.

only thing i can think of is that he is getting bullied by my two fat mollies who really are pretty pushy. he was fine at first, ignored them. now its like hes hiding.

i dont know, i love angels and i really want to dedicate my planted 29 to one angel but i have never been able to properly take care of one. is there something about angels i am missing? i have great luck with all my other fish like my 2 severums who are growing like weeds in their new home. my fish usually do great and i try to do good research.

is there anyone out there who has success with them that can help me?


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## NYjets51 (Feb 10, 2008)

Is the water out of the tap the same as your tank water? And what is the hardness of the water?


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

Did you get the new Angel from the same place as the old one?


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

yes, my tank water is from the tap. i dechlorinate it in 5 gal buckets for a few days then put it in at wc's.

the two fish were from different places.


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## a7oneal (Dec 30, 2004)

I used to have problems with angels, too, a long time ago, then one day, they started doing fine... never found out why.

Could you provide ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite readings, please? You know, just in case...


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

Angelfish are usually pretty hardy fish. If your tank is supporting otos (which are pretty finicky to water conditions), I can't imagine why angels are having problems. I agree with you that the mollies might be a factor or the constant movement of the guppies might be spooking them. I've never kept these fish with my angels so perhaps someone else can comment on them. I would think that angels might eat guppies when they get bigger.

The worst sign right now is that the fish isn't eating. Usually when this happens, there is not much hope for it. Try tempting it with bloodworms.


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## a7oneal (Dec 30, 2004)

I've heard the same about otos, so that's a good point...


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## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

how are you acclimating them? might need to do a longer more gradual acclimation process.


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

Another thought, the angelfish you have gotten may have been raised in very different conditions than your tank conditions. That would cause a lot of stress in addition to any transport shock. This could make the fish more prone to illness.

Should you get another angel, try a drip acclimation procedure.


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## cc_woman (Jan 31, 2008)

That is definitely a difficult situation. Otto's are apparently harder fish to keep alive, and if they survived I don't know why an angel won't. Parameters sound fine, my angels are kept in harder water, so that should not have anything to do with it, unless like lotsofish suggested, they were not in the same water parameters as you have. I would try removing the mollies, if you want some extra fish try a school of larger tetras. See if that helps, but it is not a good sign if your angel refuses to eat. I would also try tempting him with some live or frozen foods like blood worms or brine shrimp.


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## lotsofish (Feb 28, 2008)

If the fish still isn't eating. I would treat him with Maracyn and Maracyn 2. Bacteria could have been introduced when the fish was netted and if its resistance is low, it could have a bacterial infection. No way to tell for sure but they will often stop eating if they have a bacterial infection. Early treatment in a hospital tank might be a good idea.


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

hey everyone, thanks for the tips.
like i said, its an established tank so the amm. and nitrites are 0, nitrates are kept under control also.

the school of 5 otos is thriving and are awesome fish to watch.

i think im gonna give the mollies to the fish store and possibly the guppies also. i dont really like either of them, the wife picked them out cause she likes color. i think i will maybe give them all back, get a school of neons and hope that excites the angel. i understand he might eventually eat them, but at this point i wouldnt really mind it. its whatever will get him motivated... if he even lives another couple days. hes really wasting away, its sad and i feel bad that i cant seem to help him.

again, i cant remember it i gave water readings but ph 7, ammonia/nitrites 0, 80 degrees.

seems im just gonna have to try to work it out but i dont want to keep trying if it means fish are dying. we will see what happens.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

It's also harder now to find quality angels from LFS/wholesalers than it was say 20 years ago it seems. The hobby hasn't seemed to have recoved from that angel plague we had a while back. It could merely be the source of angels, even good LFS have a hard time with domestic angels now a days.


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

so i lost my second angel in two weeks. i saw it coming so it isnt a huge shock, but i get very frustrated when i lose fish. anyways, here is a little info i got and i thought i would share, for what its worth.

i was at a lfs (centreville aquarium for those of you in va) and had a talk with the owner who is awesome. i highly reccomend the place. not a huge stock but he will order anything and keeps his place spotless and healthy. also, he gives 20% coupons for any fish you return. anyways...

what he was saying is that angels are just very poor quality right now. what he reccomended is to find a place that has angels you like. take note and give them 1 to 2 weeks. come back, see if they are still there. if they are still there, buy them. he said that angels, discus, festivum and uaru are all vulnerable to what he equated to humans and strep. they all carry it and have it, but in weaker specimens it takes hold and shows in symptoms like loss of color, not eating, hiding and cloudy fins. these are all the symptoms i was experiencing. he said theres really no way to treat it except for good diet if they eat and clean water. if the fish live they will probably be fine. also, it will happen within the first week or so.

so..... if they fish make it through their first few weeks they are probably strong and able to fight off what most angels are dying from. he said these are just observations he has made and his orders of angels try to follow these rules hes come up with.

having said that, he had some angels i had been looking at for about a week and he showed me one he thought was there the longest that looked the most healthy. i went ahead and got it and so far so good. only time will tell.

he didnt try to offer a miracle cure, just offered some personal experience and advice which i am hoping works.

i traded in my two clumsy mollies, got the angel as well as 7 cardinal tetra and 2 long finned balloon rams (german blues that look like ping pong balls) with my 20% off coupon!

just thought i would share the few things i picked up... hope its coherant.


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

its been a week and the angel i got is doing awesome. very alert and quick. nice bold color and personality. eats whatever he can fit in his mouth.

im very happy to have him!


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## jcushing (Apr 6, 2008)

good to hear, those cardinals might be food for the angels later though


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

yeah, i know. hes tiny now, so that wont be for a while. 
we will cross that bridge when we come to it... cardinals are fantastic though. i really like them so i will try to keep him well fed and save them if theyre still around once he gets big enough to eat them.


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## ksane (Mar 19, 2008)

I'm happy for you! I just love my Angels. You must've just had a run of bad luck with the others.


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