# Frontosa breathing problem



## joe gant (Mar 14, 2013)

My Frontosa is about 2 years old and the problem is his breathing is labored. He seems healthy in every other way. He is in a 125 gallon tanks with all Mbunas and Haps. He eats like a pig and occasionally chases other fish and no one bothers him. The chemistry of the water is good Ph is high water is hard and all other levels are good. I do a 25% water change weekly. I thought it might be gill mites but there is no flashing and no other fish in the tank are breathing heavy or flashing. I use aquarium salt to slow down any parasites if there is any. I also like the way it makes the colors pop and helps with the slime coating. He been breathing like this for over a year. If anyone has any thoughts on the matter I would really appreciate it. He is my Favorite fish.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

joe gant said:


> My Frontosa is about 2 years old and the problem is his breathing is labored. He seems healthy in every other way. He is in a 125 gallon tanks with all Mbunas and Haps. He eats like a pig and occasionally chases other fish and no one bothers him. The chemistry of the water is good Ph is high water is hard and all other levels are good. I do a 25% water change weekly. I thought it might be gill mites but there is no flashing and no other fish in the tank are breathing heavy or flashing. I use aquarium salt to slow down any parasites if there is any. I also like the way it makes the colors pop and helps with the slime coating. He been breathing like this for over a year. If anyone has any thoughts on the matter I would really appreciate it. He is my Favorite fish.


Joe is he the only Front in that tank?
If so he is stressed,fustrated ALONE.
If he or she is your fav., You may want to think about a Front only tank, They need room and at least 1-2 males to at least 6-8 females to thrive.
Other wise keeping he or she alone will in time will take it's toll.


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## joe gant (Mar 14, 2013)

Yes he is the only Front in the Tank. Unfortunately all of my other Tanks in my fish room are full and I don't have any more room . I do have a friend who has a Front Tank but it has been established for some time and I don't know if he would be accepted. I would hate to lose him but maybe I will try to introduce him in my friends tank. If they don't accept him I will take him back.


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## Bertz (Dec 7, 2011)

joe gant said:


> Yes he is the only Front in the Tank. Unfortunately all of my other Tanks in my fish room are full and I don't have any more room . I do have a friend who has a Front Tank but it has been established for some time and I don't know if he would be accepted. I would hate to lose him but maybe I will try to introduce him in my friends tank. If they don't accept him I will take him back.


If it is a him and your friends tank has a Dominant male already there will be a bout for #1 male as with most cichlids, I hate to tell you to move the front out maybe others here can give you better advice.
But after being around fronts for 17 years i can say they do not take to being the only one in a tank well.

Anyway you can get a video up on the front and it's breathing?


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## Ron R. (Oct 21, 2003)

I would not worry. He's been doing this for over a year. He's eating well, has good coloring.

Your wc and salt treatment is good. I would keep him.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

What is your water quality like? if you have lots of fish, or not enough filtration, You might have high Nitrates, Nitrites or Amomonia. My tanks is cycles, and I change 40-50% weekly, and sometimes still struggle to keep nitrates down.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

How much salt do you add?

How much food,what type and how often?

I would keep him because if he was stressed by the other fish he would not be eating and looking good.


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## joe gant (Mar 14, 2013)

My water quality nitrite 0.0, ammonia 0.0, Nitrate is usually below 50 ppm Alkalinity 15 KH and GH at 17. My filtration is with 3 Aqua clear 110 and a canister filter. He is the only fish from Tanganyika all the others are from Malawi so I have a mix of herbivores, omnivores and the front. I try to fed a variety of pelleted foods and Spirulina flakes for the Herbivores usually 3 times a day and 1 day a week I don't feed at all. I initially added 1 tablespoon of aquarium salt for each 5 gallons and replace the salt taken out during water changes.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

The nitrate is somewhat elevated.I would increase the water change close to 50% and then check the nitrate after a week to see where they are at.If they are 50 now they should be 25 after a change and after a week you see how much is produced.I would rather do large water changes every 9-14 days depending on fish load to keep the nitrates well under 40ppm than doing small weekly changes that barely get rid of nitrate.Also I would switch to cichlid lake salt or use the baking soda,epson salt and sea salt mix that is on this site.One tablespoon of salt for every 5 gallons is kind of high.I don't know how your tap water is but mine is somewhat soft at 80 PPM Total dissolved solids and I add 1.5 tablespoons of Seachem cichlid salt and 1 teaspoon of backing soda for every 10 gallons and it goes up to around 350-400 TDS which is around the same as Lake Tanganyika.

Also I would cut back feeding to once a day.Adult cichlids will do very well with one good feeding a day even herbivores.


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## joe gant (Mar 14, 2013)

I just took a reading of about 40 ppm nitrate before I made a water change. I made a 50% change and I really scrubbed out the 3 Aquaclear filter boxes and there was some sludge built up. I rinse the media every week in the fish water but it has been a long time since I cleaned out the whole box. The nitrate went down between 10-20 ppm I hope this will help the Front. I also cut the amount of aquarium salt to 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. I never thought about using a cichlid lake salt because my tap water is hard and has a ph at 8.0 and my fish are healthy and there is no flashing. I went to the Seachem site and read about it and I think I will give it a try but since he is the only Tanganyika fish I should dose it for Malawi which is 3/4 of a tablespoon for each 10 gallons. I don't think I overfeed because I only give them enough food that it is consumed in about 30 seconds.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

I buy seachem salt from Kens along with other needed items.Using sea salt and epson salt is cheaper but for me the cichlid salt is easier and it works for me.In both lake malawi and tanganyika there is much more than just NaCl and carbonate hardness so the cichlid salt will add the needed magnesium and trace elements such as iodine which is lacking in the water supplies here.The main thing is to keep the nitrate down and you are on the right track.


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## joe gant (Mar 14, 2013)

What I have been noticing although no one in the tank bothers the Front when the Mbunas really start chasing each other around he retreats to his cave but shortly after emerges and is swimming about. I suppose the fast moving Mbunas may stress him out a little but the majority of the time he is out.


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## Ron R. (Oct 21, 2003)

joe gant said:


> What I have been noticing although no one in the tank bothers the Front when the Mbunas really start chasing each other around he retreats to his cave but shortly after emerges and is swimming about. I suppose the fast moving Mbunas may stress him out a little but the majority of the time he is out.


You could be right.

I add the cichlid buffer recipe found in the library section here. I add epsom salt, baking soda and Instant Ocean sea salt after a 50% water change. Been doing this since 2005 with good results.....saving tons of money instead of buying the Tang Lake salts. For 90g of new water added each week I add 1/2 cup of baking soda, 1/2 cup of epsom salt and 2/3 cup of Instant Ocean. Buy it in bulk at Sam's, CVS Pharmacy and PetsMart.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

Hey Ron,

I thought most TX water was already on the hard side

1/2 cup of baking soda is 24 teaspoons, seems a lot for a 90 gallon change considering the Instant Ocean has some buffer in it too

What does your hardness or TDS stay at?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Breathing heavy can be a symptom of a number of things; from internal parasitic and bacterial infections, to organ disorders. If you are certain it is none of these, other issues can be water parameters, water too warm, not enough O2, etc.. Of course if those are fine too, you are down to stress. Given the stocking, stress wouldn't shock me. I'm not a big fan of buffering, but then with my tap water I can get away without it. If you are adding salt, I would ensure that you are testing, to ensure stable water parameters.


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## Ron R. (Oct 21, 2003)

dmiller328 said:


> Hey Ron,
> 
> I thought most TX water was already on the hard side
> 
> ...


Houston water is fairly hard. Sometimes I've added a cup of each when I go over 90g by accident with no harmful effects. I can pour the mixture next to a DIY floating nursery or tumblers full of eggs without a problem.

I don't know what my hardness or TDS is. I guess I should know, but it must be okay for my wc Mobas. They spawn regularly.


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## dmiller328 (Nov 17, 2008)

Hey Ron keeping the hardness consistent is key and your wild fronts breeding often shows you are doing that.

My friend who has the same water supply as I, which is tap from the Yadkin river at 7.0pH low hardness at 80PPM TDS, uses the buffer recipe and over the course of a couple years his TDS was well over 1200PPM.He was adding a little too much with each water change. Lake Tanganyika has a TDS of around 400PPM but his fish seemed fine at that high TDS but the issue was if he done a water change and forgot to add any buffer and salt the TDS would drop by 50% and delicate fish like cyprichromis would show stress and shock.Most fish can handle the hardness going up drastically much better than the other way around.

I bought a Hanna TDS tester from ebay for $20 and I use it before a water change and after to see if the levels are staying consistent.I add 1 teaspoon of baking soda and 1 teaspoon of Seachem lake salt for every 10 gallons of water changed and then check TDS and add a little more baking soda if needed.This keep all my tanks around 400PPM which makes it easier for me to transfer fish or fry from tank to tank with no shock. I also use it when I receive fish to determine if I need to acclimate to hardness for sensitive species.Other than the occasional nitrate test this is what I use the most.Testing the TDS so often may not be needed but it sure gives a little peace of mind for me.


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## Ron R. (Oct 21, 2003)

dmiller328 said:


> Hey Ron keeping the hardness consistent is key and your wild fronts breeding often shows you are doing that.
> 
> My friend who has the same water supply as I, which is tap from the Yadkin river at 7.0pH low hardness at 80PPM TDS, uses the buffer recipe and over the course of a couple years his TDS was well over 1200PPM.He was adding a little too much with each water change. Lake Tanganyika has a TDS of around 400PPM but his fish seemed fine at that high TDS but the issue was if he done a water change and forgot to add any buffer and salt the TDS would drop by 50% and delicate fish like cyprichromis would show stress and shock.Most fish can handle the hardness going up drastically much better than the other way around.
> 
> I bought a Hanna TDS tester from ebay for $20 and I use it before a water change and after to see if the levels are staying consistent.I add 1 teaspoon of baking soda and 1 teaspoon of Seachem lake salt for every 10 gallons of water changed and then check TDS and add a little more baking soda if needed.This keep all my tanks around 400PPM which makes it easier for me to transfer fish or fry from tank to tank with no shock. I also use it when I receive fish to determine if I need to acclimate to hardness for sensitive species.Other than the occasional nitrate test this is what I use the most.Testing the TDS so often may not be needed but it sure gives a little peace of mind for me.


Thanks for the info. I may need to get a Hanna TDS tester to check it out. I keep all my fishkeeping to my 180g tank. I usually have 1-2 tumblers running and 1-3 diy floating nurseries--all in the 180g.

I did have some cyps about 2 years ago in the tank and they did well until my mobas ate them for a snack.    Poor little guys.

I appreciate you taking the time to educate me and others here. Thanks again!!!!


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