# 75g tank



## Caton (May 10, 2010)

I am trading a goat skull for a 75g straight up and I am going to want to stock it with some african cichlids and I think have a bio-type. Because the person I am buying the tank from makes all his tanks (has a website and everything) I am asking him to make it a little bit deeper for the cichlids/syno's. Now I need your help stocking it.

I have no clue on what I stock it with and any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Caton

My tap is 8.0-8.2


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the tank? Deeper as in top to bottom (which is not very useful for some Africans)? Or deeper front to back?

Mbuna are colorful and active. Peacocks and haps have colorful males and can be more peaceful. Tangs have subtle colors and a variety of shapes and behaviors.

Try looking through the Old World Gallery in the Profiles to view examples of the various types of fish.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

I want it to be a bio-type, it can be from any of the three "main" african likes. I would like to keep a few syno's with it. I am researching and going threw the articles on this site and other sites that I trust. I am just hoping for Ideas and when the time comes, help with a stocking list.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

I am going to go with a malawi bio-type. What kinds on plants grow there? Anubias? Vals? I am hoping to have a few plants.

What about this stocking list?
1m-Protomelas taeniolatus (red empress)
1m,2f-Aulonocara sp. "Maleri" (orange peacock)
1m,2f, - Pseudotropheus estherae (red zebra cichlid)
1,2f - Pseudotropheus socolofi (Powder blue cichlid)
1m - Pseudotropheus demasoni
1 -Synodontis njassae 
1m,2f - Pseudotropheus elongatus
1m - Melanochromis joanjohnsonae ('Pearl of Likoma')
1 (not sure I would be able to sex it) - Cyrtocara moorii

What do you think? Fairly stocked I think....

If it is over-stocked please tell me, if there are ANY incompatibilities please tell me! I have a 55g I plan on sticking some fry in to raise, which ever breeds first I guess, all the other fry will be culled or will be eaten by the other fish. I have a LFS that wil take them or I can ship them out as I have done that before with other fish and inverts.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

Oh, and its deeper front to back.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Caton said:


> I want it to be a bio-type, it can be from any of the three "main" african likes. I would like to keep a few syno's with it. I am researching and going threw the articles on this site and other sites that I trust. I am just hoping for Ideas and when the time comes, help with a stocking list.


Big rock piles, 20# silica sand bottom, paint the back flat back - there, you have a rift lake biotope.

For stocking a 75 look at the Cookie cutters here.

Malawi mbuna Haps review is here.

Most people end up starting with mbuna and spreading out from there as MTS takes hold.

If you go mbuna - I would suggest - go peaceful for your first try - Yellow Labs, Rusties, Acei, Cyno Afras, other dwarf mbuna.

I'd stay far away from Melanochromis whatever, Pseudotropheus crabro, Metriaclima lombardoi, and the various Pseudotropheus sp. "Elongatus" species. Anything rated as very or extremely aggressive in the profiles is a challenge for anyone in a 4ft tank - and as a first try - well, I wouldn't.

In a 75 you could go all Male/Hap Peacock - but you would need a timeout rehome tank in addition to your 75.

Breeding groups of Peacocks/Haps will give you a couple spectacular fish and many brown/gray/drab fish. Many newbies are not happy with such an arrangement, they want more color.

If you want to watch more evolved behaviors you go with Tangs - not as much splashy color in general but definitely more interesting behaviors by forming colonies raising fry, shell dwelling, etc.

Most Victorians can by considered to be very much like mbuna as far as behavior and keeping requirement.

Come on back and post questions after you do some more research.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

As previously stated I would like a malawi tank

I read what you posted (the reviews and such).

I want to have these colors:
Red, yellow, blue and pink with a hint of silver,brown and black.

What about this?

5- yellow labs
5-Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei"
5- odotropheus sprengerae
1- Synodontis njassae

I have a 55g tank, would that work as a extra tank?


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## soulpride (Aug 30, 2009)

5- yellow labs
5-Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei"
5- odotropheus sprengerae (do you iodotropheus aka rusty)
1- Synodontis njassae

these are a great group. Synodontis njassae like to be into group of 3 or more. for the extra 55 gallon you can put these fish in there imo. for a 75g you can get maybe 4 species. try to get a ratio like the expamle i listed:

1m/4f yellow labs
1m/4f acei (not recommended for 55g)
1m/4f iodotropheus sprengerae
3-6 Synodontis njassae (55g go with 3 Synodontis njassae max)


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

Dont bother with plants, the mbuna will just destroy or eat them its a hit or miss things you might get lucky. If you wants lots of color go haps and peacocks. You want lots of movement do mbunas. It all depends what you want. I would not mix both you get mixed results.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

Personally, I kinda like some some dull colors in my aquariums. It makes the tanks look more natural. S. njassae like to be in groups? Okay then, I will get 4 or 5 of them. For the 55g it is going to be a breeder/timeout tank because I just want to see the fish breed and grow. I was simply thinking about getting a anubias plant for $10 and if they eat it, I know not to get more 

What other species would you add?


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

No harm in that, its good for them to eat it anyways good luck. P.S make sure to clean the plants for hitchers man i have a 15g for my kids got them plants 3 weeks later baby snails everywere cause i got sloppy and didnt inspect and clean the plants lol. Lesson learned.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

Lol, that would ruin the bio-type very quickly....

Still want to know what other species you would add...Pink perhaps?


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## torin32 (May 24, 2010)

pink hmm nothing pink comes to mind red zebra but there orange some nice kandangos but they get big and red not pink and there a hap. you got me i cant think of any.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

Even my sub-conscious wants what it can't have...

Okay then, what if I were to keep 5 different males?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Caton said:


> Even my sub-conscious wants what it can't have...
> 
> Okay then, what if I were to keep 5 different males?


I the 75 -

Dragon's blood peacock - pink
Aulonocara "German Red" - red
Aulonocara sp. "Stuartgranti Maleri" (Maleri Is.) - yellow
Aulonocara koningsi - Blue
Copadichromis melas - *Jet Black*
Otopharynx lithobates (Zimbawe) - Blue with yellow blaze
Tramitichromis sp. "Intermedius" - Teal Greenish
Placidochromis electra - Light Blue

And you are stocked all male with your syno cats.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

See, but the thing is that I want to breed them (more like hope for the best). I don't really want a all male tank although they look very pretty.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Caton said:


> Okay then, what if I were to keep 5 different males?





Caton said:


> See, but the thing is that I want to breed them (more like hope for the best).


These are mutually exclusive in the tank size you are talking about - I thought you were changing your mind, my bad.

You could do a group of Dragon's blood peacocks and have a pink male if you want a pink fish then combine that group with a group of Otopharynx lithobates (Zimbawe). Nice contrast in shape and color - very small chance of cross breeding.

FWIW - breeding cichlids from Lake Malawi if pretty much foolproof - no need to hope, they *will* breed all on their own.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

> FWIW - breeding cichlids from Lake Malawi if pretty much foolproof - no need to hope, they will breed all on their own.


I know, but if I say I want to breed them they won't  
I don't *need* pink but I would like that color. I want 5 different types of fish, all looking kinda different (different colors, or shape) so that I can have variety.

How about:
5- yellow labs 
5-Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" 
5- Pseudotropheus saulosi
4- Synodontis njassae \
1m- Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ngara)
1m- Aulonocara jacobfreibergi "Eureka"
1m - Aulonocara stuartgranti (Hai Reef)
1m -Lichnochromis acuticeps (maybe to big? I want a single "large" fish)
1m - Protomelas sp. "Spilonotus Tanzania"

That is the list I want and will probably stick with that _*IF*_ there is nothing wrong with it.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Caton said:


> > FWIW - breeding cichlids from Lake Malawi if pretty much foolproof - no need to hope, they will breed all on their own.
> 
> 
> I know, but if I say I want to breed them they won't
> ...


Feedback based on first hand experience.

Nothing wrong with your list if you are immediately upgrading to a 125 .

If you want the haps/peacock males - I'd lose the Ps. saulosi.

Yellow labs and Acei are the only 2 mbuna I would put in with younger/smaller haps/peacocks in a 4ft tank.

I've had a Protomelas sp. "Spilonotus Tanzania" (Liuli) for 3 years now, he *is* a big fish:










5 Male Haps/Peacocks do not equal one breeding group of mbuna for take space requirements if that is what you are thinking. Does this picture make it clear as to why?










I would start with the Labs, Acei, Synos, and 3-4 male peacocks/haps that stay in the 6in range.

I've noticed that two A. stuartgranti males will tend to fight more with each other regardless of how different they look - don't know why, but they do. Anyway, I would definitely do the Flametail.

My Flametail had to find a new home  because he and my A.sp. "Walteri" tried to kill each other whenever they were in the tank together.










I do miss the flametail but the A ps. "Walteri" is now peaceful and happy.










Aulonocara jacobfreibergi are notorious pains, I would personally do either (both) Otopharynx lithobates (Zimbawe) or(and) Placidochromis electra instead, different body shapes and much more peaceful.

I'm a big fan of my Electra, the Lighter blue with true flat black coloring really stands out in person. I think these guys are way under appreciated.










Our Z-Rock is my wife's favorite fish right now - the yellow blaze is awesome and he is finally getting Dark blue all over (not in this photo however) which makes the blaze absolutely pop.










I would go with a Aulonocara "German Red", like mine below, instead of the Blue Neon peacock as you would already have a bunch of yellow from the labs.










My 2 cents for what they are worth.

I wish you luck with your tank.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

I am a total noob right now and am researching like when I first started the hobby  (I don't think its bad, I like to research)

However no article can cover asking direct questions.

What about this list? It keeps it simple

8- yellow labs 
8-Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" 
8- Pseudotropheus saulosi 
3-Cyrtocara moorii
4- Synodontis njassae


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Caton said:


> I am a total noob right now and am researching like when I first started the hobby  (I don't think its bad, I like to research)
> 
> However no article can cover asking direct questions.
> 
> ...


No criticism was meant. Noob's just want to cram way too much into a tank , I've done it too.

Again, I would lose the Ps. saulosi if you are going with any Haps/Peacocks. You do realize with the Ps. saulosi and yellow labs you will have a VERY yellow tank. Odds are only the one dominate male Ps. saulosi will be the bright blue you see in pictures.

Lose the Pseudotropheus saulosi and up the Cyrtocara moorii to 6 and you are full. Cyrtocara moorii get quite large - not just length but they get thick bodies - a lot of biomass in the tank.

You have enough of each to remove trouble making males if/when they occur.

As an aside, one of the nicest tank pictures I have ever seen was of a 125 with a group of Cyrtocara moorii and a Colony of Yellow labs. Black Background, black sand, dark boulders and some live plants, just stunning.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

Whoops! I totally meant to change to P. Saulosi...

8- yellow labs 
8-Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" 
6-Cyrtocara moorii 
4- Synodontis njassae

I am not a noob when it come to normal community fish, and I even know some things about plants, but when it comes to cichlids...I am lost. I didn't even notice if you post was criticizing me or anything...

Do you think I could get 6 syno's *or* up the moori to 6? I have a XP3 canister filter I am getting, with a cascade 500 canister (maybe...) so I think I am set on filtration.

Do you know where I can get black sand for cheap? I can get darker rocks as we have plenty of them around here but I cant find black playsand.....Its not that I have a big budget, and I plan on only spend $75 on hardware (I am getting the filters dirt cheap, I am going to get a light, and top) so I don't really want to spend a bunch on TMS...


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Do you think I could get 6 syno's or up the moori to 6?


I am not sure what you are asking.



> Do you know where I can get black sand for cheap?


Used to be 3M ColorQuartz was the way to go but it was discontinued and sold off to the company that does SpecraQuartz. So now I'd try SpectraQuartz or PermaColor Quartz either in Black Coarser grade.

You would have to call to see who carries it in the area and get a pricing. My understanding is the SpectraQuartz runs from $15-$30 for a 50lb bag depending on where you are.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

> I am not sure what you are asking.


Instead of keep 4 syno's, I would keep 6, or I could not the 6 synos and up the moorii to 8... Like this:
8- yellow labs 
8-Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" 
6or8-Cyrtocara moorii 
4or6- Synodontis njassae

(which ever one I stock with more, the other one will be less)


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Caton said:


> > I am not sure what you are asking.
> 
> 
> Instead of keep 4 syno's, I would keep 6, or I could not the 6 synos and up the moorii to 8... Like this:
> ...


With the C. morrii, Labs and Acei get 8 juvies of each knowing full well up front, that you most likely will need to re-home extra males at some point.

Synodontis njassae are big fish getting over 7in standard length. I have 3 adult Synodontis euptera and honestly, I would do not 6 as they are just too big for me.

So...

8- Juvie yellow labs 
8-Juvie Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" 
8-Juvie Cyrtocara moorii 
6 - Synodontis Lucipinnis/Dwarf Petricola

The Synodontis Lucipinnis will max out at ~4in and I think a group of those would be much more pleasing in a 4ft tank than the larger Synodontis njassae.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

If I get Synodontis Lucipinnis that would ruin the malawi bio-type....

So I will just stick with four S. Najassae?

I know full well that I will have to get rid of most the males, I was thinking having a 3f:1m ratio with all the fish.


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> So I will just stick with four S. Najassae?


Sure, or three .

Great shot to give you an idea on size - by no means a small fish for a 4ft tank, esp. since they are so active.










Good Luck.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

Is that man eating the fish?

I will plan on getting three but I heard they like groups....

I will be sure to post a ton of pictures when I get the tank.

Just wondering but what fish should I add first after the tank is done cycling?


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Is that man eating the fish?


Read here.



> Just wondering but what fish should I add first after the tank is done cycling?


Do a fishless cycle with the ammonia at around 3ppm per day once cycled and add all the fish at once as juveniles.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

I will do a fishless cycle but when the bacteria can eat up 5ppm of ammonia overnight that is when I will add all the fish just to be safe. Just a question and I know price varies so much but what is the average cost for these fish? Yellow labs run about $5-$7 right? To tell you the truth I have not seen any of these fish in person (at least that I know of).

That man was eating the fish! He was biting off the spines to make it safe to handle! opcorn:


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Caton said:


> I will do a fishless cycle but when the bacteria can eat up 5ppm of ammonia overnight that is when I will add all the fish just to be safe. Just a question and I know price varies so much but what is the average cost for these fish? Yellow labs run about $5-$7 right? To tell you the truth I have not seen any of these fish in person (at least that I know of).
> 
> That man was eating the fish! He was biting off the spines to make it safe to handle! opcorn:


Warning, high quality Yellow Labs are pretty hard to find in stores.

Prices in stores $5-$10 each or the cichlids, from a breeder/hobbyist a couple bucks each.

Depending on where you are in Washington, I would investigate local fish clubs. You 'should' be able to find much higher quality Labs and Acei way cheaper from a hobbyist than you can find in a store. You can also make a new friend or two in the process :wink:.

I live in the mountains in Northern AZ and end up having to order everything online, so I can recommend online sources if you PM, but it will end up running more money.

If you live near Portland or Seattle I would guess there should be people around breeding them all sans the Syno cats - good luck with finding those locally :lol:.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

I got a friend who has a fish room and is a MOD on USAfishbox, I think I can find the synos from her also.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

Would a XP3 filter and a powerhead on the other side be good so that there will be no dead spots? The powerhad is small but will provide movement...I think its 200GPH


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Caton said:


> Would a XP3 filter and a powerhead on the other side be good so that there will be no dead spots? The powerhad is small but will provide movement...I think its 200GPH


Here is a link to easy UGJ that I do in my tanks to give better water movement across the bottom toward the filter intake.

You may want more filtration down the road as your fish grow - 6 to 10 times turnover of the water in the tank per hour. A XP3 gives you 350gph.

I really like the two XP2's on my 75.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

Thanks for that link!

I am thinking about changing the acei to something else that is not blue.....You said my previous stocking list was to yellow and now I think it is to blue  . Any color besides yellow or blue would be nice....and the females have to look somewhat pretty also...(I know, I am picky)


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## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

Non-Purple Acei varient: Pseudotropheus sp. 'Acei' Itungi 'Tanzania Black'










Iodotropheus sprengerae should also be mellow enough for the C moorii


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

I guess I will have to go with Acei if there are no other fish besides the rustie (the females don't have that much color...unless the pictures don't do it justice)


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Not sure where you ended up in your stocking, but if you have all mbuna and no peacocks haps the albino socolofi are an option.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

Those are blue...I like the acei a lot better. Thanks though!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The albino ones are white. But I understand. There is a lot of blue and yellow among Malawi.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

DJRansome said:


> The albino ones are white. But I understand. There is a lot of blue and yellow among Malawi.


Hmm, I googled it, got one that looked blue, then looked here and couldn't find it.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

It has been brought to my attention that these fish would not work due to them being to large to possibly have enough hiding places for them. I am now considering tangs instead...Ideas?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Mbuna won't work in a 75G filled with rocks? I don't understand. :-?


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

Thats what I thought! But the person I heard this from I trust very much so as I have found no fault with her advice in the 1.5 years of talking with her...


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Caton said:


> Thats what I thought! But the person I heard this from I trust very much so as I have found no fault with her advice in the 1.5 years of talking with her...


I might suggest that you've now got a reason to find fault with her. This time she is full of it.


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## Caton (May 10, 2010)

I uhh...gave her the link to this thread before you posted that...hopefully she signs up and chimes in.


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## bookwyrm (Jul 13, 2006)

I just wanted to chime in and say that you can have plants with mbuna. It might not always work, but I have had no problems whatsoever. You just have to be smart. I have giant vals for the background, and anubias and java fern wedged between rocks. None of these plants need anything special - the val grows like a weed in my pool filter sand. The fish occassionally nibble, but haven't done any real damage and haven't dug the vals up. I think the key is to start the fish in the tank with the plants already there, that way they accept them as part of the hard scape. Starting with juvies might help as well.


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