# Fairwell to the N. tetracanthus



## cole (Oct 25, 2006)

I guess I had these N. tetracanthus a good 6 months atleast, and finally decided to get rid of them. They became far too aggressive to have around my group of R. octofasciata breeders. I thought I would get a few last shots of them before saying goodbye. Of course, wouldn't you know it, the minute I am about to leave with them, they finally start showing thier real beauty.










































I highly recommend this species for anyone who likes agressive CA's. They are a beautiful fish with great personality.

Cole~


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## Reiner (Jul 17, 2002)

Very nice cubans you got there. I'd take these over Dempsey's any day but to each there own.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Wow ... that's too bad cole ... I think that's the best markings I've seen on a cuban yet.


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## straitjacketstar (Mar 8, 2004)

Reiner said:


> Very nice cubans you got there. I'd take these over Dempsey's any day but to each there own.


Same here. Especially considering how beautiful they are. You did very nicely raising them. :thumb:


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## ME_AND_GREENTERROR (Jan 21, 2008)

how big do they get and.. i might consider getting him from you....


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## Reiner (Jul 17, 2002)

about 10-12"


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## ME_AND_GREENTERROR (Jan 21, 2008)

so can i keep like a pair in a 55 gallon? with couple of dither?


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## Reiner (Jul 17, 2002)

That is not big enough. I would not try a pair in anything under 6 feet long without a divider. If you try it dithers are out of the question in a 55 and a divider should be in place.


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## ME_AND_GREENTERROR (Jan 21, 2008)

kool i was just asking caause they are beautiful fish....


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## cole (Oct 25, 2006)

Thanks for all the great comments guys. I just went back and looked through all my posts and found some pictures I took from the day I got them. Seems I got them back in November, so I had them 5-6 months, and would place them at about 8-10 months of age now. Here they are as fry:


























Diet was frozen blood worms and spirulina enriched brine to start and slowly added in freeze dried krill and hikari cichlid staple and gold pellets. They did turn out really nicely that is for sure. The bigger more dominant one was just starting to grow a nice little nuchal hump. Both turned out to be males or else I would have kept them. I hate searching for a female to pair mine off with, when I know I can find pairs for cheap anytime on aquabid...perhaps not as nice though.

If anyone is interested, these beauties came from Jeff Rapps at http://tangledupincichlids.com/

Cole~

Oh yeah, P.S. :lol:

I also seem to like these guys a lot, possibly even more then JDs. Right now I am almost 2 years deep in a massive JD/EBJD breeding project and there is simply no turning back now. I got fry that needed grow out space and these tetracanthus are just a threat to their well being. If I had more room and more tanks I would have kept them, but unfortunately my wife and I have not found ourselves a good house yet.


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## ME_AND_GREENTERROR (Jan 21, 2008)

i feel for you how are you gonna get id of them.... hey since you know about JD's when do they start to pair off? i see that the dominant one has alot of barring and sparkles on the gill plate and blue ones to i posted some pics of them... so could you help me with that?


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## cole (Oct 25, 2006)

I actually already got rid of them, the day I posted this thread. They went to the LFS. She was pleased to take them from me and to give me store credit. They had never seen this species or even heard of it before.

About JDs:

JD's can begin to pair off pretty early, at about 6 months or about 3-4 inches. At that age its not very productive if they do spawn. The female doesn't lay many eggs and the male likely shooting blanks. Typically even if they do manage to get some of the eggs fertilized the first go round they will likely perish as the parents are still learning.

Its nice to pair off JDs young, so they can have a less abusive adult hood and more productive and frequent spawning. But, JDs are not usually sexually mature until about 1 year, or 6 inches in length. Up until that point I just suggest conditioning them. This means keeping them from fish that will dominant them, and away from fish that will nip at them. It also means lots of food with a varied diet, and plenty of water changes closer to 2 per week to off set any ammonia spikes from excess feedings. I also find a temperature in the low to mid 80's encourages nice strong and healthy growth rates.

I did not see any pictures posted by you, not sure where they are. But, I can add that barring and sparkling on the gil plate are not typically dominancy indicators, but are usually sex indicators. Females will likely have an abundance of barring/blotching/spangling around the lower gil plate region. Males will lack this coloring, but will have speckling, instead of blotching, usually on the upper part of the head, just behind the eyes.

For dominancy, usually I can gauge this by looking at how erect the finnage is. A sub-dominant fish will prance around like a gimp, scarred to "stand up straight," so to speak. While a dominant fish will have its fins fully erect most of the time and will swim around the tank like it is king of the jungle. When you have 2 JDs paired off and they are comfortable with each other, both fish will swim side by side most of the time, will sleep in the same spot, and both will have fully erect finage 95% of the time. As they near spawning, some nipping, shoving and lip-locking may occur, but both fish should remain dominant, showing beautiful colors. Also when spawning the female will turn almost jet black, and sometimes this can happen to the male as well.

Hope I gave you the information you were looking for.

Just one other thing I would add. Keep a nice divider around if you are trying to, or even if you have formed a pair. Some domestic disputes may erupt. As long as you seperate them for a day or two, then pair them back off, they should be fine.

Good Luck,

Cole~


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## ME_AND_GREENTERROR (Jan 21, 2008)

thank you cole it really did help i could post some pics for you if you want just give me the heads up... well from what u explained i think i got all males but they might be too young to sex the biggest is aroudn 2.5 inch and the smalles around 1 inch the biggest one is getting to be a looker.. so just tell me if you want pics.. 
Thank you 
Victor


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## cole (Oct 25, 2006)

I don't mind if you post pics here man, its up to you I guess. It doesn't really fall in the topic of tetracanthus, but it doesn't seem too many are interested in discussion over the tetracanthus I parted with anyway.

2.5" is kind of small for sexing. Thats right at the point when you can begin to sex them, but I have seen fish at 2.5" look female and end up male and look male and end up female. The colors can change quite dramatically over the next couple months.

Beyond posting a picture, the best tool for you to use right now is a bright flashlight. When they are hungry next time and come to the glass, shine the flashlight under their chins to get a look at the lower edge of the gil plate. At 2.5" females should have a translucent greenish blue tint down there and the males will not have this.

Also at 2.5" males will begin to show breeding tubes, while females will need a couple more months. If you give them a nice big feeding in warm water conditions, the breeding tubes on male JDs should be pretty obvious. They protrude just a few milimeters, and resemble a slanted backwards push-pin. The males organs are smaller, thinner and more pointy in shape.

Lets see them pictures. :thumb:

Cole~

P.S. You can always go to the website below to get information from a team of JD professionals.


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## ME_AND_GREENTERROR (Jan 21, 2008)

ok well here are the pictures...


















































































lol it might be alot of them......... but hope it will help., The biggest one is bigger than all of them buy like a tail..
Victor


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## cole (Oct 25, 2006)

Cute little buggers. I'd say these here are too small to sex by picture. You would have a better chance sexing them as they mature in person. It's really no rush in determining the sex either. You can't force them to spawn until they are ready anyway.

But, if I were forced to guess, I would say the one in your last picture, top right, is showing a female profile.

If I were forced to guess, I'd say the darker one, bottom left, in my first picture here is likely female as well.


















As I said though its really not important to sex them until they are gearing up for a spawn. The ones I have pictured here are all about 3-4" in length, and for the most part all of them are sexable at this point. These fish pictured are actually BGJDs, or Blue Gened Jack Dempsey. One parent was an Electric Blue, and the other a standard JD. They look standard and carry a blue gene.

Anyway, if you keep up good feeding and water changes over the next 3 months, these little guys of yours should start pairing off. What diet do you have them on right now?

Cole~


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## ME_AND_GREENTERROR (Jan 21, 2008)

i feed them Omega One and flakes i keep them in a 10 gallon tank since they are small but not for ever... just untill i get rid of the GT in 1 week i mgiht buy another 90 gallon tank if the woman on craigslist responds.. i do 50 percent water changes 2 times a week i just did one they poop alot.. i keep the temperature at 78 degrees 75-78 usually.. can you tell me how it should be kept ..?


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## cole (Oct 25, 2006)

They should be ok at 78. I find mine like it between 82-84 though. They seem to be more active, less skittish and more hungry in the higher temps. I think this allows them to grow faster as well. A ten gallon is pretty small, but should be ok for now. I would plan on getting them into a 20gal ASAP, 30+ gal within 6 months and eventually onto a 55 gal minimum. If thrown in a 55+ gal now they will thrive, and grow much quicker.

I would also add that you can feed the heck out of these things. If they look hungry, feed them. Mine sometimes get 5-8 feedings a day when small. Overfeeding is not a bad thing so long as you are doing ample water changes. 2 times a week is great. But if you increase the feedings like I do, they may need every other day changes, atleast in a 10 gal. Fish love water changes!

Good luck! :thumb:

Cole~


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## ME_AND_GREENTERROR (Jan 21, 2008)

yea mines seem to be always hungry but there cute faces makes me feed them 3 or more times a day.. they aseem to always be on top of the tank begging for food. well the biggest one with the most beautiful sparkles on its gill plate has grown greensih color on its end or "tips" of the anal fins and top fins. ? o you know what that is.. the others seem to be ok there is a big one a medium one and a small one.. So i have three diffrent sizes.. im looking to get a 20 gallon.. but the woman with the 90 already sold it so im looking into buying a 20 gallon for 15 bucks with no filter or lights just the tank... will they jump out? if i have no lids or lights? Do i need to put them on a diffrent diet or is it ok for now or should i change it later as they get bigger?
Thank You
Victor


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## cole (Oct 25, 2006)

ME_AND_GREENTERROR said:


> well the biggest one with the most beautiful sparkles on its gill plate has grown greensih color on its end or "tips" of the anal fins and top fins. ? o you know what that is..


Probably just standard coloration. They seem to have quite a lot of colors; reds, greens, blues and every color in between. These colors will change dramatically over the next year or so as they age.



ME_AND_GREENTERROR said:


> will they jump out? if i have no lids or lights?


Yes they most certainly will! A lot of cichlids do this. If you have one small opening, they will find it, and eventually jump out of it. As a matter of fact I was doing some re-wiring today of my tank fixtures and found a dried up 3 incher behind the stand. I have like a thousand of them so its no big loss, but it goes to show that it can and will happen. The thing was like juvie JD jerky by the time I found it. :lol:

A quick note on craigslist...use it as often as possible! You will find a lot of great deals there.

As far as diet is concerned, variety, quality and quantity is key. But, you should always keep in mind your budget. Everyones budget is different. I tend to get atleast $100 in frozen blood worms every month from Drsfosterandsmith. They deliver overnight to my door. Its convienent, but by no means is it cheap. With the ammount of JDs I keep around my house, I tend to use 1 pack of frozen blood worms in every feeding...or about 3 packs of frozen blood worms a day. In between those feedings they get other stuff like tetra tropical color granuales/colorbits, freeze dried krill, hikari cichlid gold & staple, tetra crisps and even frozen spirulina enriched brine. Its a lot of food, and they are likely driving me bankrupt, but they are happy and well fed.

:thumb: 
Cole~


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## ME_AND_GREENTERROR (Jan 21, 2008)

sorry for your JD must of suffered... but yea i usually feed my EEl bloodworms so i have liek 1 pack in a month for him but i guess i can get an additional 2 packs and some hikari and krill never tryed to feed them to my fish but guess i can give it a try.. trying to convince my parents that i can fit a 20 gallon long and a 90 gallon in my room.. they say one only... but i told them i will sleeep in there room till i get them :lol:

By the way the other JD's dont seem to color up as well as the big one? They arent as big and beautiful. Why? am i doing something wrong?
Thank 
Victor


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## cole (Oct 25, 2006)

Its perfectly natural for them to do that. Check out the picture below.



cole said:


>


There is one of them that is really nice and dark here, down on the bottom left hand side. The rest are all pale in color. A couple things effect how dark a JD is:

1) Water quality....but this will likely cause all JDs in the tank to go pale if the water is bad.

2) Breeding...females go nearly jet black when breeding. Even the males can darken dramatically. This darkening can begin with pairing off at about 3-4".

3) Dominancy...if you have 3 JDs, 1 of them will be more dominant and the others sub dominant. Being the dominant fish in the tank will cause the colors to darken, the fins to stand tall and the fishes curiosity to peak.

If you rehome the dominant one, the remaining 2 will then decide which is most dominant, either through fighting, or out-eating. Then 1 of the 2 remaining JDs will step up in the pecking order and become the dominant fish of the two.

If you take the first dominant fish, put it in the tank with the second dominant fish, one of two things will happen. If they are opposite sex you may likely get a pair or just a bad fight. If they are the same sex one will drop down in the pecking order, lighten up in color, and become sub dominant once again. This in turn may cause him to catch a beat down. After 3-4", keep a close eye out for nipped fins and scratched faces.

I would say your darkest nicest looking one is clearly the most dominant.

Cole~


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## ME_AND_GREENTERROR (Jan 21, 2008)

well yea i belive so.. so let me ask you a question when they form pairs do they like eachother before or after they are able to spawn.. of course before but what i mean is when they arent able or old enough to spawn they have no intention in pairing? 
Thank You
Victor


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## girvin02 (Apr 24, 2008)

Cole,
I apologize for taking this thread even further off topic, but couldn't resist. First, let me thank you for sharing your knowledge of Jack Dempseys. You obviously have a lot of experience with them! I found some of your comments very interesting. I have a young JD which I have been trying to identify the sex of. I am now pretty sure that it is a female, based on the criteria that you have listed. Most notibly, she has the blue markings on her lower gill plates. I originally assumed that she was a male, due to her high level of aggression - at a mear 3 1/4" in size, she chases her 4" (male) Green Terror tank-mate all over the tank. I should mention that they have adaquate space, being in a 6ft, 125 gallon tank. He spends most of his time hiding in the plants, in an attempt to avoid the JD. I also found interesting, your comments about erect fins and dark base color being a good indication of a dominant fish. My JD swims around with her fins erect most of the time. And as you can see in the following pictures, she is pretty dark colored for such a young fish. Funny, I originally feared the GT might bully the smaller JD. I never suspected that the shoe would be on the other foot. Now to find out that the bully is a female, makes it all the more suprising.

Thanks again for your informative thread.


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## Notrevo (May 2, 2005)

Old thread indeed but best pics I have seen thus far on the Tetracanthus. I received four today from Jeff; the previous two did not survive a day with the rest of the lot on the signature. However, at least two of this batch of four have some spunk...they are already flaring at the residents and have not been in the tank 2 minutes!

Keeping hope alive they will all make it through the night.


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