# How much salt is too much salt...



## Brandrcm (Feb 25, 2008)

I ran to Petco this evening to pick up dog food, and I walked through the center isle by the fish. I noticed an employee reaching in all the tanks and refilling about a 1/2 cup dish with salt, it appeared to be about 1/3 full and he was topping it off. I was thinking it had to be quite a bit for the 10-15gal display tanks. How much can the fish take? They didn't seem to be showing signs of stress but I read a sticker that explained how petco recommends salt in all tanks. Is it easy to overdose on salt? I don't use a salinity meter, but I'm sure that I am below the recommended level. How do you all use salt and keep a control of the level?


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## lewmel (Dec 25, 2008)

I have only used salt to fight ich. I do not regularly dose my tanks.


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## PaulaM (Mar 3, 2009)

I was in a pet store in Waterloo, I noticed clear cups of something in the bottom of each tank, I read the side of the cup and it said it had salt in it, I thought the same thing...wouldn't that be too much salt? By the time I got home I forgot about it, until you just posted it.

I have only used the amount the carton said to use. I do not know, but I would like to know too.


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Most of the time, when you see this in tanks, don't buy the fish. They are probably trying to treat an ick outbreak. Also, they raise the temp when they do this.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Maybe it was cichlid salts (which may not be na cl type sodium as you may be thinking).

I've never seen it allowed to dissolve in the water from a dish like that. Did you ask?

I too only use table-type salt for a medication.


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## Brandrcm (Feb 25, 2008)

It looked like aquarium salt, which I use, but it was not in the typical milk carton style container, they had it in a tub. The clear plastic dish had holes in the top lid of the container that was placed in the tank. I did not ask what they were doing, and they had it in all the tanks, not just cichlids. I assume it was to control any parasites that may exist, at least enough to last past the warranty period. I don't purchase any fish from the big stores.

Isn't table salt bad due to iodine?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I actually use kosher salt without iodine, but can't remember the last time it was necessary, LOL. But the tiny amount of iodine won't hurt your fish. Also you can get iodized or non-iodized salt these days for the table.


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

they use the salt to try to help the fish. but it really messes up the water. a small amount of sodium chloride can help the fish with breathing and osmosis. but tiny amounts need to be used.

after that it becomes detrimental. also the chloride count in the water at those stores is so high that when you bring them home it shocks them and they usually die. then they tell you it is your tank not theirs and you buy more salt and fish.

salt dips can be used as well to treat parasites but that is temporary and only when infected.

unless the store does 80%wc every day they are killing the fish. go with local breeders :thumb:


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## jasien (Apr 1, 2007)

So, I have been in the habit of adding 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons of fresh water whenever I do a water change. Is this not good?


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## dreday (Oct 12, 2007)

well it depends. why are you adding the salt??

because someone told you to or is the an end result.

i dont like to add stuff unless i know why i am adding it. if you are doing it just because then you need to find out why. not saying its bad, the ratio is good. but if it is sodium chloride then there really is no need. magnesium sulfate would be better. helps raise magnesium hardness and i think helps the alkalinity. other than that unless you want to raise your ph sodium bicarbonate would be the only other mineral i would add.

but even then having a stable tank is much better for the fish then an unstable one. so using just straight tap water is the best. and unless your tap water is really soft or acidic then it should be fine. you do not have to have a ph of 8.2 for malawi species. 7.4 - 8.4 is ok. but using you base tap water is best. less chance for a ph crash or spike.


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## CutieSusieQ (May 12, 2009)

I have been adding marine salt, baking soda, and Epsom salt to my tank every time I do a water change. I was told that was the right thing to do. Its known as a Rift Lake Buffer Recipe. The recipe can be found on this site actually http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php
Before, when I didn't use the recipe my water's PH and hardness stayed low, but now my water is always perfect. If I remove 20 gallons of water then I add enough of the recipe to cover the 20 gallon of new water I am adding back. So, unless its a bad thing to do, I am going to keep using the buffer recipe. I know everyone's untreated/tap water will vary, but as for mine, I think I need to use the recipe.

One thing to keep in mind too is that salt DOES NOT evaporate. So when you are adding water just to replace evaporated water, you do not have to add any salt mixture. You only add it when doing water changes.

Also, as for all the big name pet stores around here, they too use clear cups filled with some type of salt mixture in ALL their tanks. It's not just one store, it seems to be all the stores doing it. But it doesn't look like normal salt. It appears clear and almost like a gel form.


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## xTmDarren (Apr 27, 2009)

jasien said:


> So, I have been in the habit of adding 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons of fresh water whenever I do a water change. Is this not good?


yes that is correct 

also since *** been using its regularly over the past year I can truthfully say I haven't had any sick fish. Where in one of my tanks I had a guppy which kepted getting ill every few months and now he's been doing fine for close to a year. Swimming around all happy...


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Petco adds salt to every tank as it helps avoid nitrite poisoning (common in holding tanks) and it aides in resistance to external illnesses like Ich, fungus, etc.

It can be helpful in the short term. In the long term, I have found it to be counterproductive. Who knows if the fishes life was shortened due to stress levels from irritated skin or from kidneys being overworked, the fish is still dead.

For starters, how much salt (NaCl) was in your aquarium to begin with? Nobody ever seems to know or care, yet we know that many species of fish are not as salt tolerant as the next species. I'd think one would want to know what the level of salt was before adding, and then after so that they can make educated statements or track the health of their pets over the long run.

Next, we see all sorts of "recommended doses" which never mentions anything about the species of fish being dealt with. Not every fishes kidney function can handle salt to the same degree as the next.

Fish are generally categorized into 6 levels of salt tolerance...

Primary. Strictly intolerant of salt water (Dipnoi, Polypteridae, Cyprinidae, Characidae, most siluroids, Centrarchidae, Percidae, etc.).

Secondary. Rather strictly confined to fresh water but relatively salt-tolerant, at least for short periods (Cichlidae, Synbranchidae, Lepisosteidae, most Cyprinodontidae and Poeciliidae).

Vicarious. Presumably non-diadromous fresh-water representatives of primarily marine groups (Labidesthes, Siniperca, Lota, etc.).

IV. Complementary. Fresh-water forms, often or usually diadromous, belonging to primarily marine groups, which become dominant in fresh water only in the scarcity or absence of division I or II (and possibly III) (Agonostomus, Sicydium, certain New World Gobiesox).

Diadromous. Fishes which regularly migrate between fresh and salt water at a definite stage or stages of the life-cycle (Entosphenus, Alosa, Oncorhynchus, Anguilla, Sicydium)

Sporadic. Fishes which live and breed indifferently in salt or fresh water or which enter fresh water only sporadically and not as part of a true migration.

(ABOVE COURTESY OF: 
http://www.wku.edu/~smithch/biogeog/MYER1949.htm )

Notice that cichlids are in the second category... we know they can take a fair amount of salt in the water and for sometime, but how much is too much? Where do benefits leave off and harm kicks in?

Personally, I've found that clean water and plenty of it gives all the "benefits" of salt, with absolutely none of the negatives... nuff said in my book.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2009)

I add baking soda every time I do a water change to my Tropheus tank but only enough for the amount of water removed.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Ah well if the Petco tanks are not cycled, that's a different story. And not a reason why any hobbyist on this forum should follow suit.


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## weldeng (Jul 20, 2008)

Number6 said:


> Petco adds salt to every tank as it helps avoid nitrite poisoning (common in holding tanks) and it aides in resistance to external illnesses like Ich, fungus, etc.
> 
> It can be helpful in the short term. In the long term, I have found it to be counterproductive. Who knows if the fishes life was shortened due to stress levels from irritated skin or from kidneys being overworked, the fish is still dead.
> 
> ...


So you dont add salt with each water change?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Are you asking Number6 or forum members? There should not be a reason to add salt NaCl except for medicating something specific...like ich in combination with elevated heat for example.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

weldeng said:


> So you dont add salt with each water change?


If you are asking me, specifically, then no... I no longer add salt with every single water change on my freshwater tanks (heck, I don't even do so on my reef tank LOL )

I would only add NaCl if there was a reason to add it. Freshwater cichlids do not appear to need it and seem to do better without when viewed over longer periods of time (years).


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## Riceburner (Sep 3, 2008)

I don't add salt on a regular basis. I've heard about add magnesium sulphate/Epsom salt to help treat ich though.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Riceburner said:


> I've heard about add magnesium sulphate/Epsom salt to help treat ich though.


 then you've heard wrong... Epsom salt has been used by folks to help with intestinal issues, but Ich would be completely unaffected by Epsom salt.


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

Salt works great for curing and preventing ick and can be used at 1 table spoon salt per gallon of water without any problems with most cichlids. Lower dosages would be recommended but salt is safe overall and can help prevent and cure ick, even without the added heat. Heat just speeds up the ick cycle. Epsom salt I believe is used as a fish laxative. I dont use epsom salt. 
Putting fish in a tank that does not have salt will not kill them even if they came from a tank that has salt. You can drip acclimate or just slowly add water to the new fish from his new home. Its no big deal. Those that have fish die, usually have death due to an error they made. Cichlids are tough fish and it usually takes quite a bit to kill them. even bloat is easily cured if caught early....
SALT will NOT kill your fish in low dosages.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

I was reading this post and actually started trying adding salt after every water change. Did this on the last couple water changes since first reading this post. Got up this morning and one of my afra was dead. Related to me starting to add salt?? IDK. He had been in the tank for about 6 months and never showed any signs of being picked on or bullied, ate really well, and never had one problem...after a few changes adding the recommended dose of salt...lost a fish.

Who knows, maybe there is something to it. Regardless I'm gonna go back to my old ways of only adding salt when I got an ick breakout.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

PiePuncher said:


> SALT will NOT kill your fish in low dosages.


 cigarettes won't kill me in small dosages either... unless one changes perspective and looks at my "entire lifespan". Lung cancer might not be the way I want to check out of this world...


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## bayou_bottom (Mar 30, 2009)

Number6 said:


> PiePuncher said:
> 
> 
> > SALT will NOT kill your fish in low dosages.
> ...


LOL I always say you got to die of sumptin! Why not sumptin you enjoy doing? What do you want to die from? old age? Not me! Ever hear the old pple talk about how much they hurt? Oh my bones hurt! you dont wanna get old! That's pain!


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

bayou_bottom said:


> Number6 said:
> 
> 
> > PiePuncher said:
> ...


lol :lol:


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## Brandrcm (Feb 25, 2008)

srook23 said:


> I was reading this post and actually started trying adding salt after every water change. Did this on the last couple water changes since first reading this post. Got up this morning and one of my afra was dead. Related to me starting to add salt?? IDK. He had been in the tank for about 6 months and never showed any signs of being picked on or bullied, ate really well, and never had one problem...after a few changes adding the recommended dose of salt...lost a fish.
> 
> Who knows, maybe there is something to it. Regardless I'm gonna go back to my old ways of only adding salt when I got an ick breakout.


What did you read that inspired you to add salt to a healthy tank? If its not broke don't try to fix it. Just my opinion.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

Brandrcm said:


> srook23 said:
> 
> 
> > I was reading this post and actually started trying adding salt after every water change. Did this on the last couple water changes since first reading this post. Got up this morning and one of my afra was dead. Related to me starting to add salt?? IDK. He had been in the tank for about 6 months and never showed any signs of being picked on or bullied, ate really well, and never had one problem...after a few changes adding the recommended dose of salt...lost a fish.
> ...


Just an experiment I guess...didn't figure it would cause death. Still not sure that it was the cause, but as I stated the fish was otherwise healthy for quite some time before I started adding salt.


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## Brandrcm (Feb 25, 2008)

srook23 said:


> Brandrcm said:
> 
> 
> > srook23 said:
> ...


I'm not sure if the salt would cause death, as noted above it would take quite a bit. I once used Jungle parasite clear with salt which caused a slime coat reduction and burns on some of my fish. I did a large water change and filtered out the medication and the fish have healed. Something along this line is what I would assume a salt overdose would look like. Tough to say what the cause of death would be. At what does did you add salt to the tank?


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