# High Nitrates and low levels of Ammonia



## ZJG Moparman (Jan 2, 2008)

I have had my cichlid tank setup now for 4 months. I currently have it stocked with 5 Yellow Labs and 7 Yellow Tail Acei. All fish are less than 2.5." I do plan to remove the extra male acei once I am clearly able to tell the males from females. Just recently I switched to the API freshwater test kit. I like this much kit much better than the older strip test kit I was using. My strip test kit was reading a pH of 8.2, but when I switched to the API, it was reading much lower (7.4). A pretty big difference. The same thing was happening with my Nitrates. The strip test kit was reading 10-20 ppm, while the API test kit is reading higher.

Anyways, my issue now is, I have been doing water test twice a week. I finally have got my pH, KH, and GH to the levels I would like. However, I am showing low levels of Ammonia in my tank. It looks less than .25 ppm, but I should not have any in a fully cycled tank. Also, my Nitrates seems to be climbing very rapidly. I had been doing a 50% water change once a week to keep my nitrates under control. They were reaching about 40 ppm at the end of the week with this large of a water change. Last week when I had the LFS test my water to confirm my results, they said I should check into my Ammonia. Long story short, they said I should back off on my water changes. I may be doing too large of a water change causing some of my bacteria to die. So last weekend I changed about 20-30%. Today, I tested my water and I was still reading about the same Ammonia level, but my Nitrates were extremely high. I could not tell the exact value on the API test kit due to the color between 40-80 ppm being so similar. It was a very dark read; definitely between the 40-80 ppm after only 6 days. This really concerns me.

My other water parameters are:

pH - 8.2
KH - 10 dH
GH - 16 dH
Ammonia - .1-.2 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 50-80 ppm
Temp - 78 F

A little background information. The tank is a 55 gallon aquarium, with a custom made 3D foam/drylock back ground. About a month ago, my canister filter busted. It was a Marineland Magnum 350. I also had a Whisper Power 30 HOB. I replaced both of these filters to upgrade my filtration. I the canister with an Ehiem 2217, and the HOB with a Penguin 350. I am using the two biowheels, along with two of the marineland filter cartridges that have the built in carbon. The Ehiem is setup with all of the media that came with the filter. I would think that the filters should have had plenty of time to build up enough bacteria. The water is crystal clear. I also have a Maxijet 1200 power head for extra circulation. When I do my water changes, I use API Tap Water Conditioner. I have tested my tapwater and it did not show 0 Ammonia, but it was very low.

Can anyone give me some suggestions to fix my ammonia and nitrate issue? The fish seem healthy and active. I have tried to give as much information as possible.

Things I have tried:
Dropping temperature from 80 to 78
Reduce feeding from 3 times a day to once a day


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

I would continue doing water changes, first off. If you're not disturbing your filter, water changes shouldn't bother the bacteria - even up to 100% water changes. If ammonia is building up, water changes will help make sure they don't reach toxic levels while your cycle catches up.

If your tank has been up 4 months and you've been doing 50% water changes, thats a pretty good water change schedule and more time than needed to establish a cycle.

When you replaced your filters about a month ago, that could have caused your tank to recycle. Did you use the established media from your old filters in your new filters?

A small ammonia reading like your seeing may not be a real reading at all. I find it difficult to distinguish between levels, but if its clearly not .25, it may in fact be 0. Does your tap water have chloramine? If so, its possible the ammonia test could be picking up the chloramine and giving it that ever so slightly look of not quite 0. When do you test your water for ammonia? Right after a water change would show ammonia if you have choramine, but it would be bound by the dechlorinator, and then processed by your bacteria and within 24hrs it should be back to reading 0 ammonia.

If all else fails, nitrates climbing rapidly is a good sign you have an established cycle. I've found with the nitrate test, if nitrate gets over 40 its hard to distinguish between the different shades of red. Over 80, it all looks the same, so you could do a large water change and have it still look read if your nitrate was that high. with 50% water changes weekly, your tank should never get higher than 2x the fishes weekly production of nitrate. Since you have few young, small fish, they should not be producing much nitrate. I have over 30 small fish and a couple adults in my 90g and although its a bit more water, its also more fish, and my nitrate production is currently about 5-10ppm per week. Doing 50% water changes, that means my nitrate would never get above 10-20ppm. Nitrates as high as 80ppm or higher means something is definitely going on. If you are doing 50% changes weekly religiously, then a likely cause of nitrates so high would be way overfeeding, or a sign that its time to rinse out your filtration, or both. You said you were feeding 3x per day. That might be it, if your feeding a lot each time. I feed mine once per day. 3x as much food is 3x as much nitrate.

First thing is to maybe do daily water changes until your nitrates low, like maybe 5-10ppm, and then test every day to see how long it takes to get to 20ppm. If it takes less than a week to climb from 5 or 10 to 20ppm, then you have something else contibuting excess nitrate to the system besides the fish. Overfeeding, or detritus buildup in the filters would be my guess.


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## nudge (Aug 1, 2011)

good advice there. I was feeding my fish 2x a day but found at the end of the week my nitrates were a little high and this was with a 50% wc every week. I scaled back to feeding mostly once a day and occasionally 2x and this made a big difference in my nitrates.

You could try feeding once a day for a week and check your nitrate levels before your water change. If they are at an acceptable level, that could be your answer. Also I would ditch the carbon in the filters. Carbon is good but it needs to be replaced regularly. If its not it will start to leech all the bad stuff it was stopping back into your tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd definitely go back to the large water changes, but your stocking does seem light to need more than 50% weekly. I'd look for some debris hidden somewhere. At the bottom of your substrate? Behind your 3D background?


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## ZJG Moparman (Jan 2, 2008)

Alright, I took all of your advise tonight. I did about a 60% water change, making sure to match water parameters before adding the new water. I also pulled my Penguin 350 out and rinsed the filter media in old tank water, thinking there may be debris in these. Some did come out. I tried to vacuum up as much debris in the tank as possible, but it seems to always get stuck under my rocks. I will test the water again tomorrow, and possible do another large water change to get my nitrates back down.

One other thing, I did back my heater back down to 77, hoping to slow the metabolisms down a little. I will also cut my feeding way back. The problem with cutting the feeding back too much is the fish then always eat my algae waffers for my bristlenose pleco. I am afraid that will cause him to starve.


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

The pleco will manage. 
Nitrate production IME has more to do with how much food you're giving them, than how many (live!) fish there are. It's 0 out of the tap, right?


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## ZJG Moparman (Jan 2, 2008)

> The pleco will manage.
> Nitrate production IME has more to do with how much food you're giving them, than how many (live!) fish there are. It's 0 out of the tap, right?


Yes, Nitrates are 0 out of the tap. I do show the slightest signs of Ammonia out of the tap though. I am wondering if switching to a different Tap Water Treatment would help. In the past I always used API Stress Coat/Dechlorinator. I believe it removed Chlorines, Chloramines, and detoxified Ammonia. About a month ago, I switched to API Tap Water Conditioner, which only removed Chlorines and Chloramines. If I am adding Ammonia to the tank every time I do a water change, would this not increase my nitrates in a day or two?

I have read good things about Seachem Prime, and was considering buying a bottle. Would you recommend the switch, or do you think this is only a small part of my nitrate problem?


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

I don't believe a one time shot of such a low level of ammonia would increase the nitrates much. Any chemists out there want to do the math? Is it just 1:1?

A capful of Prime treats 50 gallons, so it's economical. That's probably why it's popular.

Do the fish seem stressed, and did they after you changed the filters?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There are only 3 nitrate causers: too many fish (not), too many nutrients (food) or debris somewhere. Well 2 really because food and debris are nutrients.

If you are still getting debris...keep going until there is none.

Are your fish a little too round? If yes, that would support to overfeeding theory. Think in terms of portion-control, daily portion should be the size of the fish's eyeball.

Definitely don't worry about the catfish...I don't even feed mine anything separate. Just check his belly occasionally and as long as it is not concave...he is fine.


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## Rhinox (Sep 10, 2009)

brinkles said:


> I don't believe a one time shot of such a low level of ammonia would increase the nitrates much. Any chemists out there want to do the math? Is it just 1:1?


I can't confirm this, but I remember reading somewhere either here or elsewhere that 1ppm ammonia leads to 3ppm nitrate. I came across this info when I was researching cycling when I first got into the hobby, but I haven't confirmed this. Just throwing it out there. Regardless, if there is a small amount of ammonia being added to the water less than .25ppm once per week, its not going to have a huge impact on nitrate in the tank.


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## ZJG Moparman (Jan 2, 2008)

> There are only 3 nitrate causers: too many fish (not), too many nutrients (food) or debris somewhere. Well 2 really because food and debris are nutrients.
> 
> If you are still getting debris...keep going until there is none.
> 
> ...


I know there is still some debris in the tank. Some of it is really hard to get. Part of it is due to my poor design to the background. There is some debris trapped between the back glass and background where I have cut outs for the two filter intakes. I tried sticking the siphon back there, but it curled up on me before it got to the bottom of the tank. I may have to try rigging something up to hold the hose straight.

No, the bellies of the fish are not round. They are pretty uniform with the rest of the body. I have not fed them at all today. I did do a water test about 30 minutes ago. The results were:

pH - 8.2
KH - 11 dH
GH - 13 dH
Ammonia - 0.10
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 35

The nitrates are down, but they should be after changing such a large amount of water last night. I am going to do the same thing tonight. It just seems to me that if I am showing Ammonia in the water and nitrates, I should also have a small amount of nitrites too. Maybe I am doing the Ammonia test wrong, but the LFS also said I had Ammonia in my water.

Another thing that I bet is causing the high nitrates... I didn't think of this earlier, but I did have an Acei disappear about two weeks ago. I can't find him or his remains anywhere. Not stuck to any filter intakes, not under any rocks. I wouldn't think the other fish would have ate all of his remains. He is probably laying trapped somewhere in the tank causing the nitrates to sky rocket like this.

To answer another question from above, the fish do not act the least bit sick. There are all very active and do not show any signs of gasping for air. The males are even trying to mate with the females. They are showing excellent color as well.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They won't be sick...because you are doing PwC every other day to prevent it.

I'd do whatever is necessary to the background to get the dirt out.


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