# Yellow lab covered in black specks - Not Black Ich NEED HELP



## Biablid-Dilthinky (Nov 23, 2012)

Hello,

I am an intermediate in skill level, but my fish is sick and I have no idea what he has and there for no idea how to cure it. I signed up on this forum in hopes I can get some answers. I've been browsing this, as well as many other sites, trying to figure out what my poor guy has. He is still young and I have him in a hospitalized tank. I got him with another yellow lab who died as well. I'm pretty sure they were sick when I got them, but there were no signs until 3 or 4 days after being introduced to my tank. Before I continue, here is some information on the tank he was in before:

Size: 90 Gallon
Cycled: Yes (Had goldfish in there for 6 weeks, then switched to cichlids after ammonie read "0" repeatedly)
Ammonia, pH and temperature: 0, 8.2, 82 F (Unfortunately I do not have a hardness or nitrate/nitrite test kit, but I used
African Cichlid Salts to increase the hardness)
Species: All are still young except the blue dolphin, who is fully grown
-Blue Dolphin
-Kenyi Island
-2 Likoma Island (1 M, 1 F)
-2 Albino Redfin Zebras (1M, 1F)
-Orange Shoulder Peacock
-5 Tiger Barbs
-6 Green Tiger Barbs
-Columbian Blackfin Shark
-Rubbernose Pleco
-Bristlenose Pleco (Medium)
-Common Pleco (Medium)
-1 unknown baby cichlid (Still really small, got him from an empty tank that never had a breeding pair in it)

Food:
-HBH African Cihclid Attack Sinking Pellets
-Tropical Flakes
-Spirilina Flakes
-Nutrafin Shrimp Pellets (For the shark and plecos, although usually the other fish eat them too)
-Nutrafin Bottom Feeder Pellets (Occasionally)
-Frozen Brine Shrimp, Bloodworms, and Krill (The only thing the Blue Dolphin will eat is bloodworms)
-Algea Wafers (Didn't start till after fish was hospitalized. Only fed on occasion.)

Usually I feed the sinking pellets in the morning, and frozen food at night. I give the flakes as a snack either mid day or before I go to bed. Or both. I usually give the shrimp pellets once every day or two.
The last fish that were added were the 2 Yellow labs. I vacuum the gravel once a week, with about 10% water change, more then that if more gunk is sucked from the bottom then usual. I have a Rena XP3 filter on it, as well as an under gravel filter. I clean the filter once every 2 weeks, and use Purigen instead of Carbon.

All the perameters are the same for the hospital tank, except it is a 10 gallon and has a AquaClear 20 on it. I have filter fibre an a couple Bio-Chem stars and ceramic rings I took from the rena filter. I'm currently just treating with salt and Paraguard as a general medication, but I have had no results in the past 3 days so I might stop.

*Now, the problem:*

He appears to be covered in what looks like charcoal dust. That is the only way I can describe it. It seems to be darker and more concentrated around along the spine and around the gills. He has become emaciated, and originally was just floating sideways either at the top of the 90 gallon or got himself wedged inside a fake plant. Once I put him in the 10 gallon he seemed to start swimming more, but he also appears to have become blind. When I put the food in he starts swimming around as if he can smell it, but never goes to it. Once the food lands on the bottom, and if he swims into a pellet and it actually hits his mouth, he'll suck it up and greedily eat it very quickly. (I only feed him african pellets, in hopes to not get the tank too dirty)

When I first noticed he was sick, the other one was fine. After I scooped him up and put him in the hospital tank, the other fish died out of no where. After talking to someone at work who also bought a couple from the same batch, (I work at Petland in the Fish and Reptile department, which I know I will get a lot of flack for, but I try my hardest to know as much as I can about this hobby and help people who need it) and she said they died within a couple days as well. So I'm pretty sure they had it when I got them. None of the other fish in the 90 gallon are sick. They are all doing fine. So maybe it isn't contagious.

I'll see if I can get some pictures and post them, but does anybody have any idea what this is? Have you heard about anything like it? And if so, how do I fix it? The guy is a trooper and has been sick for about 2 weeks now with no signs of improvement besides swimming around instead of just floating, but it could just be because of the power of the filter that is pushing him around. Any help is appreciated.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Grab a nitrite/nitrate kit at Petland and post the results. Don't feed bloodworms, the dolphin will eventually accept a healthier food if you fast him a couple days first. Turn down the filter so it does not push the sick fish around...this way he can use his strength to fight the disease.

Yellow labs often get a stress coloration that could look like charcoal dust...it is black pigment that shows up in the yellow when the fish is unhappy or excited. What do the feces of the fish look like? Thick and food-colored? Thready and clear or white?

If he is already on his side, it may be too late, but it may not. If the feces are thready/clear I would stop feeding and treat for bloat using metronidazole.

Once your sick fish is on the mend...there are some changes you could make to your 90G that may prevent additional deaths. Some illnesses (like bloat) take one fish every month or two and in between the rest of the fish seem perfectly healthy.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

I don't have experience with what you are describing but have done a fair amount of looking at various articles on fish diseases in order to try to understand what symptoms I should be looking for to determine if a fish is unhealthy.

A couple of the sites I saved had lists of diseases along with treatment. I would only recommend these sites for identification purposes and would defer to the experts on this forum for treatment but at least they are a starting place to help identify the possible problem or problems. I've posted a couple of sites below for reference.

http://www.fishnet.org/sick-fish-chart.htm
http://www.al3ez.net/upload/c/ahmad_saadeldin_A-Z Fish Diseases.pdf

From what you describe it seems that your fish might have black spot and/or velvet but again, I have no experience so only looking at your symptoms. And pictures would help with identification. Also from what you describe it sounds like your fish might have more than one problem/illness going on.

Finally, I would highly recommend that you complete your testing kit and get the nitrite/nitrate testers. Without those, it is impossible to determine whether your fish problems come from or are being exacerbated by your water parameters. Other than that, you should look at your stocking (very mixed), water changes (10% once a week is probably too little...I do 50% every 5 days on my tanks), and feeding routine (possible overfeeding which can contribute to water problems and fish illness). There are many articles on this forum and many threads dealing with all of these things which are invaluable resources.


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## Biablid-Dilthinky (Nov 23, 2012)

Sorry it's taken so long to reply, I've been working a lot and doing reno's on the house. The fish seems to be doing better in the 10 gallon. I took some pictures but I cannot figure out how to post them. (I looked around the site for info, but I kind of suck at finding things)

I tested my Nitrates/Nitrites and they both came out as 0. Nitrate might have been a little bit above 0, but the colour was as close as it could be without actually being 0.

I'm glad I can stop feeding bloodworms. I've never liked them. I think what the dolphin does is after the "feeding frenzy" is over is just cruise along the bottom of the tank eating any uneaten bits of food that are on the ground that the rest may have missed. He went for about a month without bloodworms so he must've been eating something.

I've never actually gotten a good look at the feces. He's eating very little right now, like a said, maybe 2 pellets a day, 3 tops. I suck anything sitting at the bottom of the tank out every other day in an attempt to keep the ammonia down in that tank. It might be stress, although, I'm not sure why he would be stressed. He wasn't being chased and I have plenty of hiding spots. And his female counter part died the day after I removed him from the tank. I guess I kind of hope it's just stress.

He may only be slightly blind. Because he seems to be alright at finding hiding spots, just bad at finding food.

Maybe if someone could send a link that could point me in the right direction of how to upload a photo, that would help. The link in the post at the top of the sickness board that gives you instructions on how to upload is broken and gives me an error.


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## cichlid-gal (Apr 27, 2012)

To post pics
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=249632


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## Biablid-Dilthinky (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks. While my pics are uploading, what exactly is Bloat? Because I just found the unknown young cichlid dead at the bottom of the tank, seemingly out of nowhere. He was hanging out in the corner behind a plant earlier, but he didn't seem sick. Did the batch of labs infect my tank? I'm quite concerned. If they just start dying like this, what can I do to prevent it? I apologize if I seem paniky, but without any warning signs that my fish are going to die, how do I know how to save them? :/

The feces in the tank are normal, not white and stringy, and none of my fish have appeared bloated before.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Bloat is an organism in the intestine that multiplies out of control. The fish may not appear bloated. The fish that was hanging out at the top or behind a plant was stressed (they hide there...unbelieveable but true). Stressed fish easily get bloat. One theory is that like ich, the organisms are always present but not a problem if the fish's immune system is strong.

I use metronidazole for bloat.

If your tank is cycled your nitrate should be 10ppm or more. You might want to pick up a test kit with liquids and test tubes for an accurate reading. What about ammonia?


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## Biablid-Dilthinky (Nov 23, 2012)

My ammonia is 0. I'll double check the nitrate. Do you think maybe the Purigen is removing some nitrate? I tried uploading some pictures but the only 2 cameras I have are my phone and my Canon T2i, so the pictures are really big. The only one that finished uploading wasn't that good. I'll give it another try tonight.

I'm not sure why the fish got stressed. One day he js swimming around happily and then in the span of 24 hours dies.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

It may be your stocking or your feeding regimen. IDK what to feed your non-cichlids, but the Malawi are fine with a single high-quality, low protein staple food like NLS 1X daily. And Malawi want to be kept in harems (for example 1m:4f) because the males harass a single female, possibly to death. You could try removing all females, or adding lots of females so each male would have 4.

Also Malawi like to be in large groups, so I would want at least 12 of them in a 90G. If you did not have the other fish, I'd be saying at least 20 of them.


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## Biablid-Dilthinky (Nov 23, 2012)

The best picture I could get is posted below.

He is swimming around more. He spend most of his time hiding in the plant, but that might be because it's too bright in there and the fact that he is the only one in there makes him nervous. I'll try taking out one of the bulbs to dim it down. He's still haveing difficulty eating. Should I attempt to treat the 90 gallon with Metronidazole? Or should I just keep an eye on them?

So I should put more females in? Any suggestion of what species? Or just more female's in general?

Wow. I feel ashamed that I know so little about fish. I've always known that there will always be more to learn, but I didn't realize how little I knew.

Thanks for the help and advice everyone as given me so far. I'm glad I came here.

One more question: Is it bad that the nitrate read 0? When I tested it I did use a liquid test kit, but maybe I didn't let it sit long enough to give me an accurate reading? I know the ammonia kit needs about 5 - 10 minutes to read properly, but I left the nitrate kit for about 5 minutes too.


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## Biablid-Dilthinky (Nov 23, 2012)




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## Biablid-Dilthinky (Nov 23, 2012)

Oh, and one more quick note. The main reason I feed the brine shrimp is to bring out their colours. I don't feed them much. The barbs and the sharks get by on cichlid food. But I give the barbs the flakes and the bottom feeders pellets just to make sure they're getting the nutrition they need. The plecos like the algae wafers and the shrimp pellets too. I've started feeding them after I turn the lights off since they are mostly nocturnal and that way the other fish will ignore their food. But I'll reduce the feedings.

Is the yellow lab a male or female? When I first got it it was kinda small so it was hard to tell. But now it is a little bigger (and I have a close up picture) it looks like it might be a female.


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## du3ce (Sep 11, 2012)

one of my lab looks like that, shes been like that for a month or so, shes still alive and eating


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Bright lights don't bother the fish. The fish looks fine, as long as they are eating and feces look normal I would not treat.

Yes, you want to see a nitrate reading. The nitrate test has to be shaken vigorously before you mix and after you mix...shake the full 30 seconds before and 60 seconds after mixing per the package instructions.

Vent the fish to determine gender.

NLS (and other high-quality foods) has all you need to bring out colors. Algae wafers are OK. If you need all that other stuff for the non-cichlids I would consider splitting up the tank according to dietary needs.

Regarding stock, I'd decide if I wanted the cichlids to be all-male or mixed gender. Since you already have the tank half full with barbs and catfish, I'd probably try removing the female cichlids and see if the stress in the tank is reduced (no one with poor colors, no one hiding). If you want mixed genders on the cichlids, I'd choose 2 species and stock 1m:4f of each. Is the dolphin a moorii or a Metriclima? The moorii would be 9" if full grown and too large for a 90G.


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## Biablid-Dilthinky (Nov 23, 2012)

It's not 9" so it must be metriclima. The only stress I.have seen are from the labs and the little guy who died. I guess I'll get rid of the females, if you think that'll help. I'll also re-introduce the lab tonight and see what happens. He's been in the 10 gallon for 2 weeks now.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The Metriaclima dolphin has vertical blue bars. The Cyrtocara moorii a.k.a. blue dolphin is more of a solid light blue fish with some faint barring. You can see them in the profiles to ID your fish.


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## Biablid-Dilthinky (Nov 23, 2012)

It's not a morii. I was looking at the profile. He doesn't have the big lump on his head. It's rounded out but not quite to that extent.

Just to be clear, the aggression won't start until the fish are mature enough to spawn? Because there is very little aggression now. The barbs keep to themselves, and the only aggression between the cichlids is the kenyi occassionally chases another for a second or two.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Fish are mature enough to spawn at 1.5" for some of them. I'd suspect you already have aggression since your lab has stress coloration and your unknown cichlid died. Aggression is often not witnessed.

Moorii get the hump when they are older. The can be adults with no hump but a 6-year-old moorii male is more likely to have a hump.


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## Biablid-Dilthinky (Nov 23, 2012)

Hmm. Well I'm not sure about how old the dolphin is. He was surrendered at petland. Don't know why. But he isn't 9" and doesn't have the dark blue bars(we actually just ordered Morii in). Maybe he has more to grow. As for the aggression, sometimes I sit and stare at the tank for over an hour, instead of watching TV or something. Never seen anything to violent. I'll have to take the females back. As well as the yellow lab.

About the nitrate, I was, once again, wrong. I re-did the test. It read just above 10ppm. I'd guess maybe 12 or 13.

I've reduced feedings. They only get african cichlid pellets in the morning now. I occasionally (once or twice a week) give them some brine shrimp (to get rid of what I have) or tropical/spiralina flakes, because found out that kenyi's are herbivores.

One more question: Feeder fish. Should I get some and should I wait until what I have is bigger? Or will that increase aggression? I feel like everything I've learned/done thus far has been totally wrong.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Feeder fish are full of diseases and can infect your fish. In addition, the Africans you have in your tank will not benefit from feeder fish at all, especially not the mbuna.

If you really want to feed something live as the occasional treat (monthly?), some hobbyists raise their own cherry shrimp in a separate tank.


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## Biablid-Dilthinky (Nov 23, 2012)

Okay. Thanks. I've considered raising my own brine shrimp. But I'd rather buy something. I'll see if I can find someone who sells something small.


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