# New tank Ideas?



## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

Just picked up a free 120 gal tank, 4ftx2ftx2ft It was a reef tank, missing the pump now, but I was just wondering what I should do with it. set it up as a saltwater reef, or as a freshwater setup. I have never done salt water so I was just wonder what peoples opinions were about what I should set it up as, and what fish I should do.

Oh yeah and it was all free, with filter and stand.

just let me know what you think would be the best.


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## TangSteve (Sep 20, 2009)

IMO do cichlids. You have a great African cichlid store in Lakewood.

SW is nice to look at but IMO gets boring unless you are a DIY guy who just enjoys tinkering with your system everyday. I say this after having kept 150g reef tank for 4+ years with SPS and clams.

Stilll have 400w MH pendants sitting in my closet.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

thats what my original though was, because sw is so much more pricey.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

My view is not going with the flow of a lot of people but here'tis. I find saltwater to be a pain. Seems to always be much more expensive from fish to equipment. It seems to be a pain to keep anything clean of the salt. There are many really interesting traits among cichlids like breeding. For family and friends, I've found nothing to beat letting them observe a mouthbrooder holding and/or protecting her little group. You have far breater variety of interesting interactions with cichlids. You also have a far greater range of choices in reasonably priced fish. One can stock a cichlid tank for almost any water you have eliminating a great deal of learning curve on water quality. You also can stock a cichlid tank without needing a second mortgage on the house. Of course, this group may be just a bit slanted in their opinions. :lol:


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I knew it would be a bit slanted but just got the tank today and wanted to know what people thought. if I go the cichlid way what should I stock this tank with?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I guess it makes sense that the members of Cichlid-Forum would push you toward Cichlids... 

I had a young pair of Trimacs in my 4x2x2... At male 11" / female 7" they got along fine in the tank with a pair of Convicts hiding in the rocks to torment (which they did)...

I was warned that they may eventually outgrow the tank (due to aggression) and I was willing to upgrade them if necessary... but I felt there was a good chance my pair would be able to stay in the tank long term...

I unfortunately had to rehome the fish and store then well the tank... A buddy of mine now owns it and has a stingray and baby banded shark in it (saltwater)...


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

frontosa breeding colony


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

maybe 12 discus...alot of waterchanges though with these guys


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

how many fronts would I be able to do?


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

they get around 10-15 inches so id say you could do 10 when its all said and done but youll need to start out with double that to be able to weed out extra males. you should end up with 2 males and 10 females and just let them breed and raise their fry and then sell the juvies to your lfs or take store credit. they reach sexual maturity in about 3 years so it takes a little time but well worth it. a nice big tank with 10 year old fronts is absolutely hypnotic to watch.
zaire blue or moba are my favs...my bro has a 120 front tank and they are very pretty, graceful fish...only wish i had a tank that size


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

oh and male to female ratio is not always as importent with fronts...they are like demasoni...as long as you have enough of them they all get along fine. in the wild the live in colonies numbering in the thousends so overstocking is usually of great benefit


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I have been wanting a front tank. what is a good price to pay for them?


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

it depends my bro lives in chicago and pays around 5-15 dollars for them...here in pittsburgh they go for 25 dollars for a 1 inch fish


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

yeah I have seen some here from 15 to 35.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

you might wanna check online...usually cheaper...high shipping costs but the cheap price and quality is usually a better deal


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I will look into the fronts for sure then.

would I be able to use the sump that came with the tank?

what about the protein skimmer?


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

yeah use the sump but dump the protein skimmer just makes sure to wash everything well to make sure your starting fresh...and then do a *fishless cycle *while you plan your tank


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

sounds good, I just need to plan the stocking right, this is the biggest tank I have had ever so we will see.

I have always wanted to do saltwater but I will probably hold off on that till further down the road.


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## TangSteve (Sep 20, 2009)

10 fronts in a 4' tank is way too many when they get full size.

If you really want fronts buy 10 or 12 and sell off extra males as they get bigger. Your goal would be to end with one male and 4 to 5 females. A beta male in a 4' tank would typically be killed (there are always passive alphas but I wouldn't count on it).

Cyphos.com is a great Front site to use besides the experts here.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

what is the best online place to buy fronts?


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## TangSteve (Sep 20, 2009)

There are several sites mentioned on this forum and the one I mentioned above so you can get an idea of the price ranges.

Most of them you buy on-line will be WC or F1s so a little more expensive.

The cichlid store in lakewood has 4" to 5" WC Kigoma for $95 each or $180 a pair. I was there on Sunday and they have some great fish in stock.

I would suggest running over there and find out what lake you like 1st and once you determine that make a list of 10 or so fish you like and use the appropriate lake/ species forum on this site to get feedback on what mixes well.

Mbuna, Haps, Trophs, Fronts and mixed Tang are all possibilites and you can see tanks of each at the store.

(no I don't own or work at this store, I just think it is much easier to make choices after watching the fish for a few hours.)


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

golden fish, its a nice place but the women that works there is not the nicest, at shermans tank they have some 1" ones for 15 and the same at the fish den.

I have some trophs so maybe I'll do them in this tank instead of the 55 I was planning on.


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## TangSteve (Sep 20, 2009)

LOL, no she is not she is usually yelling at her husband in Korean but she is also rigid in her water change schedules.


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## marik (Sep 15, 2009)

i would do a salt water if i had a big enough tank and the money. Cichlids are nice but salt water fish are so exotic.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

every time I go in there she is mean and rude to me, never helping me. I have not met her husband but I heard he is the one to talk too.

*marik*
Is a 120 big enough to go salt?


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

freshwater i just easier to care for and much less expensive. remember your tank will be an ongoing expense...not only in maintainence but in fish as well


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

Yeah what can go with tropheus?


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## Sprintz (Sep 22, 2009)

I had africans for 10 years then switched to salt (reef) for 12 years and recently switched back to africans due to lack of time. As much as a love africans, NOTHING freshwater compares to saltwater (sorry cichlids owners but I have had both for many years). If you have the money and time, set it up as a saltwater tank. Trust me, you will not regret it!


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

yeah I still have to figure it all out.


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## Icey101 (Nov 5, 2007)

Sprintz said:


> If you have the _*money and time*_, set it up as a saltwater tank. Trust me, you will not regret it!


That part right there is what has kept from doing a salt water set up. The more I look at them, the more I get scared because of the price of setting everything up...then the cost of everything that has a chance of dying.


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## BigFish77 (Feb 1, 2009)

I have one important question to ask the original poster of this topic. Have you ever kept fish before? If not then I would start off with freshwater, and if you can handle that then move to salt. Do not just jump into a saltwater tank without understanding the basics in a freshwater system.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

*BigFish77*
I have kept freshwater fish for about 5 years now.
Thats why I was thinking about jumping into salt to challenge myself.
I just do not know if, I want to spend a lot of money and time at first, but I do want to.
you know what I mean. I want salt but I can think of a lot of really nice cichlid tanks.


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## beachtan (Sep 25, 2008)

Interested in a front's tank??

Check this out!!! (the rest of the website is AWESOME too!! )

www.aquariumdesigngroup.com

then click on "Galleries, Freshwater" in the top right corner
slide cursor down to pic 11 and you'll see a GORGEOUS (yet do-able) front tank!! might give you some stocking ideas...


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

*beachtan*
that front tank is amazing I also like the cherry spot troph tank.


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## beachtan (Sep 25, 2008)

matthew1884 said:


> *beachtan*
> that front tank is amazing I also like the cherry spot troph tank.


I know right!!??!! I just got my first "big" tank (120gal) and the biggest i've been running are 55's so I'm trying to decide how to aquascape mine too. I also have people trying to talk me into saltwater but I just really like the cichlids better - options for breeding, and if I leave town for a few days it's no big deal. Also I can afford lots more tanks! I'm also planning a "U of M" tank with a M logo on the back, and Yellow labs, Acei & a trio of Sunshine Peacocks so I'll post pics in the next few weeks once I get everything moved around... : )

Also planning a species tank for breeding trets in a 55gal...

Have fun with yer fish!! : )

How's your setup coming along?


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

what are you stocking it with?

mine is a 120 too.

I still have to clean it out, it has some nasty build ups, and paint the stand black, but yesterday and today the weather has made it so I can not do either.

and I have to set up the filter still and get a pump.


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## BigFish77 (Feb 1, 2009)

Salt is a challenge both in terms of maintaining things and in cost. I have successfully kept both and would agree like was said previously is $$ is not an issue then salt is better over-all. In terms of a saltwater tank there is also alot of options you can have a reef tank, fish with inverts and live rock, or simplest a fish only tank.

Sounds like your most interested in freshwater, I have a 180 gallon tank and really was debating about making it a saltwater set-up but cost was too much an issue. One thing people forget is every water change you need to add salt, salt become expensive after a while. In addition, the fish I am interested in would are expensive for each fish. I have a mixed tank which is stocked unconventionally with both haps and fronts, as well as South American plecos / clown loaches. I think you'd be pleased with a front tank or freshwater, just make sure you gather as much info on what you like before adding anything and later regretting it. There are multiple types of Fronts you can purchase, look into them all, don't just buy the first ones you see. 
Good Luck,
Keep posting and everyone here will surely help you.
:thumb:


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

Well I just talked to the owner of one of my lfs and he said salt is amazing but it is exspensive.
So for now I am going in the freshwater direction.

can trophs and fronts co-habitate with one another or no?

I really like them both
If I go for fronts my lfs has Burundis fronts, that are 2 in. 3 for 30$
So If I get fronts these might be the ones becasue they are so small and I can watch them grow.

thank you all


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## Sprintz (Sep 22, 2009)

Completely understand! When you have the time and money set up a reef tank!


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

yeah once I get the money saved up I will do a reef for sure.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

the fronts will eat the trophs when they get big enough...if a challenge is what your lookin for the troph will do...regular water changes at exactly the same time every time or they tend to suffer. discus are also a challenge...naturally they live in streams so their water is pristine and likewise their tank should be this calls for *at least 2 water changes a week * and good filtration and maintainence habits given that they will breed.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

right now it is between 
Discus
tropheus
and fronts

how many of each could I put in the tank if I choose that type of fish?

My filtration will be a sump.
and a emperor 400,


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

trophs id start with 20-30 juvies and end up with a breeding colony of 20 with a 1m/4f ratio...and expect to get bloat at sometime. the discus the general rule is 1 discus for every 10 gallons so 12 is the goal and they are pairing fish and not harem breeders like the trophs


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

if you got the time effort and money the discus would be the way to go since they will use the entire tank swimming throughout the entire water column...the fronts will be a little more forgiving in terms of tank maintainence but still would benefit from weekly waterchanges and substrate vacuuming. overall your lookin at 3 of the more expensive fish to buy especially the discus but id say some of the most rewarding in terms of the amount of time and effort put in and getting healthy, colorfull( especially with discus) fish to enjoy


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

what about fronts?

If I go with trophs could I have 2 colonies?


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

ya I like expensive things.


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

the fronts i would say your goal would be to end up with 15 total fish with 2 males and the rest females and the trophs you could do a bigger colony just remember that troph are mighty aggressive but numbers should help out there and with the fronts and trophs given good conditions will breed and overpopulate your tank


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

steelers fan said:


> the fronts i would say your goal would be to end up with 15 total fish with 2 males and the rest females and the trophs you could do a bigger colony just remember that troph are mighty aggressive but numbers should help out there and with the fronts and trophs given good conditions will breed and overpopulate your tank


If you decide on Fronts or Tropheus, please post your questions in the corresponding forum for the most realistic answers. I have to disagree with Steelers Fan. Too often, the question is what can I fit in a tank, not what will work long term and be sucessful. I have WC Mikula Zaire Frontosa/Gibberosa. Fronts are more about length of tank, not gallons. I have 1M ,3F in my 100 gallon 5 ft tank, and that is pushing it. I have heard of trios or quads working in a 4 ft tank, but not WC, and growing from Juvies seems to be a must. Most will only recommend 6-8 Fronts in a 6 ft tank, and None for a 4 ft. If you are dead set on trying this, I'd recommend 8 juvies, and pull all but one male.

As for Tropheus. I keep 21 in a 4 ft 75 gallon. Depending on filtration, I would recommend about 30-40 in a 4 ft 120. They are busy, busy..but skittish and not a lot of color on most variants. The plus..you can do a species only, and they usually let some fry grow in the tank, so you could sell some occasionally.

I've not attempted Discus yet..Keep playing with the idea and chickening out. They are a LOT of maintenance. I have 10 tanks, so no Discus for me, right now. Small Discus need daily water changes of 50-70%. And they are best with no substrate..so ugly tank to me, untill they are larger.

I've had a salt water Reef tank, and loved/hated it. I really liked the fish, especially the clowns with their anenome. But, the maintenance was a chore. And, of course more expensive. I had a pest control worker come into my house today and comment on how nice my saltwater tank was. It was my 120 gallon Mbuna tank. Awesome color,more than Tropheus, and more forgiving with water quality. Your tank would be a great size for 4-5 species of Mbuna. My recommendation...Saulosi, Red Zebra, Maingaino, Cyno Hara, 10 of each and pull extra males. Just my .02


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## steelers fan (Jun 26, 2009)

listen to the experts...i am only going on what *** experianced through my brother who has a number of tanks one of which is a 120 gallon with 15 total fronts ranging from 6 inches to 15 and some over 10 years old but have never kept fronts myself *so i am not speaking from personal experiance.* with that in mind i will agree with the previous poster and suggest you ask some questions in the appropriate section :wink:


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

steelers fan said:


> listen to the experts...i am only going on what I've experianced through my brother who has a number of tanks one of which is a 120 gallon with 15 total fronts ranging from 6 inches to 15 and some over 10 years old but have never kept fronts myself *so i am not speaking from personal experiance.* with that in mind i will agree with the previous poster and suggest you ask some questions in the appropriate section :wink:


A 120 gallon could be 4 ft, 5 ft, or there is a 6 ft 125. :-? That is what causes a lot of confusion. They longer the tank, the better for Fronts. And, there are always the exceptions to the rules. But, If I'm going to try something new, I want to do it will the best chance of sucess.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

*Floridagirl*
I never thought of Mbuna, Never even looked them up up, maybe I'll do those, lots of color and 4-5 species. sounds good

Thank you very much

*steelers fan*
Thanks for all your help


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

Is there anything that can and will live a long life, good life with trophs?


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

matthew1884 said:


> Is there anything that can and will live a long life, good life with trophs?


Gobies are good tankmates with a similar diet.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/c ... php?cat=10


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

Thanks never seen them before.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

So how many 1" fonts should I start with to end up with the proper number?
what would be the ideal # of these fish when there adults?


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

matthew1884 said:


> So how many 1" fonts should I start with to end up with the proper number?
> what would be the ideal # of these fish when there adults?


I gave you my thoughts already , 8 and pull all males but one. Let me suggest again posting this question in the Frontosa section. Be sure to add what size tank it is in gallons and inches. I think you will find that most will not recommend Frontosa for this tank, but you will get more answers from people that have actually kept Fronts..and possibly their experiences with a 4 ft, 120.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

alright thank you very much.


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