# Fish Are Flashing



## fishing12

Not sure what is going on with my all male tank but all of my fish seem to be flashing (rubbing) to a point where Im starting to get concerned. I know fish do this but *** never had them all doing it and consistently for about two days now.

Tank is a 180 6x2x2 all male Hap/Peacock. Been running for about 2.5 months now.
0 ammonia 0 nitrite just under 40PPM Nitrate water change scheduled for tomorrow usually 50-75% change. KH 143.2 Gh 196.9 Ph 8.0 water temp 77.8

No visible signs of any problems have not added anything chemical wise to tank. Filters are all clean. Tank has great flow and seems to be well aerated.

I'm at a loss,Should I be concerned and should I be prepared to treat for parasites? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!


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## fishing12

Just another observation. All of the fish seem to have their fins close to their bodies they are not displaying their dorsal fins like they usually do. I have also observed them twitching a little from time to time like something is bothering them. They are all active and eating as well.


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## fishing12

Marc Collin said:


> Can show your Tank and Fish Pics for better understanding of issue? It would be easy for me to to help you with best possible solution after seeing to pics and condition of the tank.


Thank you for responding. It seems to be getting worse the fish are sometimes have almost like mini seizures along with the flashing. I did a 75% water change today and all water parameters are the same as previous with the exception of nitrates being lowered to about 20ppm. I took a video of the flashing please let me know what you think. Thanks!


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## &lt;=U=L=T=R=A=&gt;

I was experiencing the same problem ,probably worse! Even after I treated for ick, which I knew they did not have.

After testing the ph levels 2 times a day for 8 days 
It ended up been When the ph drops suddenly to low levels... Now I have to do 75% water changes every 7 days.
The 6th and 7th day is when the ph starts to drop dramatically and cichlids started to Act this way.
Every now and then I slack off and do water changes every 10 days They begin to Scratch/Flash Immediately.

Your water is different than mine you ph/hardness levels can drop slower or faster and come out the faucet higher or lower than mine..so terms and conditions apply 

Here is a part of the article that convinced me it was the ph

 What causes them to scratch is usually due to improper water conditions or their being introduced to water with a different set of properties.

African Cichlids require very hard water, on the order of a KH of 14 to 17. Unless the water has a natural buffer, the minerals that make the water hard, will "fall out," or precipitate out in about a week's time. If that happens, your water will slowly become softer than is ideal. This is the number one cause for an African Cichlid's scratching. The second most common is following a drastic water change with a change in temperature, pH, or hardness. Even if you are restoring the water to an ideal pH or hardness, you will observe an increase in scratching for the first hour after the water change. That is because they are having to adjust to the new osmolarity. Their skin will be irritated and their scratching is in attempt to alleviate that discomfort. Ironically, if the water conditions are not brought within ideal ranges and the scratching is allowed to continue, they will scratch their scales right off. Wounds like this often lead to an infection, and if left untreated, death. ((((((So, if you find your fish scratching heavily, check your pH and hardness.)))))) :fish: 

Link to article

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/oddities.php

And another link to guide you on water Chemistry 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/water_chemistry.php


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## Kalost

Looks like normal behaviour to me.


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## fishing12

<=U=L=T=R=A=>

Thanks for all the info. What has me confused after reading this is that fact that my water parameters have not changed since the tank has been up and running, nothing different. Same 50-75% weekly water changes and consistent water parameters. They would occasionally flash but nor like this, something is different and now a couple of them are starting to spit some of the NLS pellets that they have been eating for months. They will come up aggressively to feed and then spit out a couple of pellets, no hiding or anything like that. I'm worried that they are in the early stages of who knows what and if it is something I would like to be able to diagnose and treat it while they still can be treated.


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## fishing12

Kalost said:


> Looks like normal behaviour to me.


Im not an expert for sure but they sure seem to be flashing like they never have before. Now some are spitting food. I think something is going on.


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## letsgoflyers6387

This seems to be one of the big mysteries of keeping cichlids. From what I gathered, "flashing" is very common for cichlids - but they do it for different reasons. Some people are able to find a solution, others don't address it and still end up keeping healthy looking fish for many years. The list of reasons (some speculative) is extensive:

-Disease such as ich
-Sudden changes in pH or hardness
-KH is too low (even if pH remains constant)
-Normal behavior (especially when mating)
-Voltage leak from heaters or other equipment
-Using a product such as Prime that contains a "slime enhancer" (the idea is that the slime coat is built up by actually introducing a mild irritant)

My water parameters are very similar to yours and my Mbuna occasionally, but consistently, have shown flashing/itching since the day I got them (tank has been running for about six months now). It's a shame because everything came out perfectly except for this one minor issue.

I kept cichlids at my previous house before I started the tank mentioned above and these fish did not flash. Everything is the same except:

OLD Tank - No flashing - Tap water came out at pH 8.2, GH 6-7, KH 12-13
NEW Tank - Flashing - Tap water comes out at pH 8.2, GH 12-13, KH 6-7

Strange, that GH and KH are now reversed. However, this leans toward the statement cited previously:

"African Cichlids require very hard water, on the order of a KH of 14 to 17. Unless the water has a natural buffer, the minerals that make the water hard, will "fall out," or precipitate out in about a week's time. If that happens, your water will slowly become softer than is ideal."

Even though I don't detect the pH change between weekly water changes, perhaps this is still occurring on an undetectable level and even this subtle change can cause an irritation.


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## fishing12

letsgoflyers6387

Interesting reply, all thought provoking. I actually use Prime and wondering if I should change to another conditioner that doesn't act as an irritant, seems like a no brainer.

I have actually been treating the tank as if it is infested with ick. Water temp at 85 degrees and two tablespoons of salt per 5 gallons. Its been two and half days into the treatment and seems to be less flashing, fins are starting to display again and no one is spitting food. I used a flashlight at night while they were sleeping and not sure but I think i saw some small areas of white near the gill areas so that is the reason I went with a treatment I figured it wouldn't hurt.

The thing that confused me is my water parameters have been extremely consistent since the tank has been up and running, no missed water changes, tank is pretty well maintained and almost overnight the behavior of my fish completely changed. I know something if way off and I almost hope it is ick so I can complete the treatment and hope that it is eradicated and these fish can get back to being healthy with out all of the flashing, head shaking etc.

Thanks for taking the time to reply I appreciate all the help I can get on this, I'd be sick if I lost this tank at this point.


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## katu06

I'll just add in my 2 cents... my tank has been running for a year and my fish do this regularly. I just watched 2 of them as I'm typing this sentence. I freaked out about it for a long time, insisting that something was "wrong", but it is hard to deny that when they are all doing it for an extending period of time it must be somewhat "normal".

Perhaps it is related to Prime, because that is what I use as well. I do notice an increase in twitching / flashing when I change my water, but then there are also random times where they seems to be widespread flashing for no apparent reason.

When they aren't doing the "face first into the sand twitch", but instead the "turn sideways and glide across the sand", I can't help but wonder if they are showing off to each other. Perhaps a sign of dominance?


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## fishing12

Thanks for your input katu06. It is a troubling issue with me as well when they are doing this and as a new keeper of these fish I have a lot to experience and learn. If this had been their behavior from the start I may not have been as concerned but to have the whole tank turnaround in a matter of two days and start all the flashing and non aggressive shaking it has me pretty concerned at the moment.

The good news is that on day three of the treatment the tank has really calmed down to an occasional flash. Perhaps the heat and treat method is working its magic? They are under close watch and I will finish out the ten days do a water change and see what happens. If they start to act up again after the water change then I have to reconsider my water parameters and what Im using to treat the tank (Prime etc). I guess its a process of elimination and as a newb it seems to be the best course of action I can take unless more experienced words of wisdom can direct me in a different direction. Thanks again for your reply its good to hear from someone experiencing the same issues.


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## fishing12

Just thought of something and though I may be reaching I did change filter media in one of my Eheim filters to all mechanical using Polyester filter fiber. Does anyone know if this can be a known irritant to fish? So many people use it so I doubt it but had to ask. It was about the same time my fish started changing behavior. Coincidence?


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## fishing12

Tonight I see just an occasional flash and all fish are eating and their fins appear to be in full display mode. I guess the heat and treat is working. The question I have is it because it was an ick infestation that is being wiped out or perhaps the addition of 2 tablespoons of salt per 5 gallons changed the water parameters to something that has made the fish comfortable? Either way I am keeping my fingers crossed and will finish out the full ten days of the treatment.


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## DanniGirl

I know you mentioned that the water parameters have remained stable but could you post the kH and pH readings out of the tank and tap?


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## fishing12

DanniGirl said:


> I know you mentioned that the water parameters have remained stable but could you post the kH and pH readings out of the tank and tap?


Thanks for helping out

Readings out of the tank are KH 143.2 Gh 196.9

Outof the tap kh= 89.5 or 5 drops Gh 197 or Ten drops.

Fish have all but stopped the flashing, eating and seem to be back to normal still not sure if the heat and treat was a coincidence that they stopped the behavior. Going to finish out the ten days and then do a large water change and temp back to 78. Thoughts?


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## fishing12

Day 10 of heat and treat and all signs of flashing, spitting food and poor fin display are all gone, my tank seems to be back to normal. Does anyone know if heat and treat gets rid of Diatoms? If it doesnt the bushy nose Pleco I added two weeks ago is doing a heck of a job, significant reduction in the amount of Diatoms and tank looks much better whatever the reason. Slowly dropping temp, dropped from 85 to 82 degrees since this morning and will work it back to 78 degrees by tomorrow evening. Also did a 75 percent water change today.


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