# My Flowerhorn Collection



## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

hey guys, im posting 3/4 flowerhorns (ones healing) and my kirin parrot, all comments are welcome except the expected "i hate hybrids" or "kill them".

MP quality Zhen Zhu Malau (6")









Faded Kamfa (not MP quality) (6")









Dirty Kamfa (most likely not MP quality, but anything is possible)(3-4")









Kirin Parrot (MP color, suspected female (1")


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2008)

Nice ones...

About the hybrid think, I don't have anything against _most_ (example the camel back catfish is just an atrocity) hybrids, especially since most are beautiful (like the ruby red peacock, Ob peacock and fryeri, albino white knight fryeri and albino protomelas taiwan reef), I just hate it when people sell hybrids as pure pedigrees.

Still, nice flowerhorn. Which is the one that's healing?

~Ed


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## heylady (Oct 14, 2004)

Love your fish Gage!! :thumb: Your ZZ Malau is outstanding and your Kirin parrot is awesome!!   And I like the color of your "faded kamfa" but I wonder why you call the other fish a "dirty kamfa"?? Is it because it doesn't have any spangles yet?? (Just trying to educate myself on the different types of flowerhorns...which can be very confusing)


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## Sick-Lid-4-Life (Mar 22, 2008)

What determines whether or not you consider it a "MP" ? Is that not subjective ?


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## notmyspace (Oct 12, 2006)

what's MP ? :-?


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## Sick-Lid-4-Life (Mar 22, 2008)

"Master Piece" LoL As if they were works of art or something.


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

Wouldn't Albino species be just normal not hybrid cause i though albino gene is a recessive gene that every one can carry??

Casue if thats the case i guess in high school i had a friend that was hybrid.


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## Sick-Lid-4-Life (Mar 22, 2008)

All flowerhorns are hybrids


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

I know that but some people say that when there are albino fish they are hybrids but everyone carrys the recessive trait to be albino.. At least thats what i learned at school.


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## Sick-Lid-4-Life (Mar 22, 2008)

Right. But an albino flowerhorn is just as much a hybrid as a normal colored one.


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

Marduk said:


> hybrids, especially since most are beautiful (like the ruby red peacock, Ob peacock and fryeri, albino white knight fryeri and albino protomelas taiwan reef),


I wasn't very clear sorry i know those stay hybrid but like that with the fryeri.
Also i remember someone posting pictures of there albino eye biter and someone said it was hybrid.


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## Sick-Lid-4-Life (Mar 22, 2008)

Sometimes an inexperienced person that sees a fish that looks slightly different right away pulls the hybrid card.


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

I don't think *** ever seen the albino fryeri and *** seen all the types of fryeri except that kinda of a bummer it looks cool


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## F8LBITEva (Nov 9, 2007)

very pretty fish :thumb:


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

danielratti said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> > hybrids, especially since most are beautiful (like the ruby red peacock, Ob peacock and fryeri, albino white knight fryeri and albino protomelas taiwan reef),
> ...


The albino taiwan reef is likely a hybrid. The albino gene is very rare and most asian or florida pond breeders cross breed species to get albino haps or OB peacocks/haps. The albino fryeri is a hybrid, Fogelhund said in a post a while ago that he bred them once and got different looking fry a couple times.

Not all albino fish are hybrids, it's just very very unlikely that its pedigree is pure in my opinion.

Doesn't mean that ATR's or Albino S. fryeri's aren't beautiful though, just that they are directly related to their ancestral wild species.

~Ed


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## danielratti (Feb 17, 2008)

Well the albino gene is very rare in humans also so its kinda like people.

The asian importers are kinda killing the hobby for me casue im hearing about all the stuff there doing with fish it kinda bothers me upsets me more then bothers me.

I knew Ob was a hybrid from the go when i first saw one. But i haven't yet seen the albino fryeri when i do i will for sure buy it


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

danielratti said:


> Well the albino gene is very rare in humans also so its kinda like people.
> 
> The asian importers are kinda killing the hobby for me casue im hearing about all the stuff there doing with fish it kinda bothers me upsets me more then bothers me.
> 
> I knew Ob was a hybrid from the go when i first saw one. But i haven't yet seen the albino fryeri when i do i will for sure buy it


Rocky Mountain Cichlids has juveniles in stock. They are a beautiful one...I've considered getting some before but decided that with my new current display tank I'd prefer all natural species...

http://www.rockymountaincichlids.com/malawi_prices.htm

Actually they did have them in stock but are out of stock. I'd give them a call and see if you can reserve some or get an idea when their new fry when be big enough to ship.

Here's two topics showing pictures of the albino fryeri (aka "White Knight Ahli"):
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=157342
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=157296

And this website: http://www.cichlidlovers.com/s_fryeri_albino.htm <---They claim they're true albinos...but as Fogelhund pointed out they are likely hybrids. Still, an awesome fish....just as long as no one tries to introduce them into the wild...

~Ed


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

danielratti said:


> Well the albino gene is very rare in humans also so its kinda like people.
> 
> The asian importers are kinda killing the hobby for me casue im hearing about all the stuff there doing with fish it kinda bothers me upsets me more then bothers me.
> 
> I knew Ob was a hybrid from the go when i first saw one. But i haven't yet seen the albino fryeri when i do i will for sure buy it


And I agree about the asian importers. A few months ago my LFS (who loves the cheap prices of the hormoned african cichlids they get from asia) got very obvious Protomelas taeniatus Red Empress X Dimidiochromis compressiceps hybrids...they were very freaky looking...

Then there's the camel back catfish (TheFishGuy posted a picture of them once in a topic a while back)....

~Ed


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

heylady said:


> Love your fish Gage!! :thumb: Your ZZ Malau is outstanding and your Kirin parrot is awesome!!   And I like the color of your "faded kamfa" but I wonder why you call the other fish a "dirty kamfa"?? Is it because it doesn't have any spangles yet?? (Just trying to educate myself on the different types of flowerhorns...which can be very confusing)


LOL, i thought it was a joke to, but is actually the type of Kamfa it is.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Sick-Lid-4-Life said:


> What determines whether or not you consider it a "MP" ? Is that not subjective ?


ill list the few main things to consider your flowerhorn an MP (masterpiece)

- large kok (hump)
- intense colors
- Consistent Pearling
- Short Body
- Short Face
- fins need to either be large and flowing or wrap tail (which is pretty much a very tall tail so it almost makes it look like the dorsal, anal, and caudal fin are one big fin.

these are just a few things to help determine, and this is the criteria for the type of flowerhorn my nice one is, ZZM.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

im not to sure how we got talking about albinos in the first place, but whoever said albinos are hybrids needs to do some reading LOL


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

gage said:


> im not to sure how we got talking about albinos in the first place, but whoever said albinos are hybrids needs to do some reading LOL


I never said all albinos are hybrids. What I was saying that was a lot of fish sold as albinos could possibly and/or are likely hybrids at some point in their lineage when the breeder of that variant introduced it from another fish. Just like with some of the OB fryeri's and OB peacocks, breeders have hybridized fish in order to introduce the albino gene. The albino gene is likely so rare in fish species I doubt that all the albino fish sold today (albino eureka reds, albino flavescent peacocks, albino fryeri, albino taiwan reef, albino ruby red, albino kribensis, and so on) are pure. Some of them may be, but definitely not all of them. Besides, most of the albino fish sold originally came from Florida fish farmers who are notorious for hybridizing fish (albino taiwan reefs for example were created by Florida fish farmers, and albino eureka reds or eureka reds in general are hybrids (man made fish, not line bred).

For example, below are links from a reliable source confirming what I was saying about the albino taiwan reef, the albino flavescent, and one I missed the albino stuartgranti Marleri Isl:
http://www.cichlidnewsmagazine.com/issu ... tsnew.html
"Developed in Florida some time ago, Protomelas sp. â€œsteveni Taiwan albinoâ€


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

Sick-Lid-4-Life said:


> Sometimes an inexperienced person that sees a fish that looks slightly different right away pulls the hybrid card.


So are you suggesting that I was wrong about flowerhorns, OB peacocks, albino fryeris, etc, are hybrids?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

danielratti said:


> I know that but some people say that when there are albino fish they are hybrids but everyone carrys the recessive trait to be albino.. At least thats what i learned at school.


Albinism does not equate to hybrid. However, a number of breeders have seized an opportunistic sale, and crossbred fish to create albino fish. Case in point, many of the Aulonocara and Victorian albinos came from the same two breeders within just a couple of years. Many of the other albinos came from what appears to be the same breeder in asia in a year or two.. These same breeders created OB versions of these fish too, where there would be no OB gene.

Hybrids are not necessarily a problem, the issue is when OB or albino hybrids are bred with proper fish, and albino and OB siblings are sold in the hobby. Unsuspecting hobbyists believe they are pure, breed and sell them as such. This creates a strain/species in the hobby, where a number of the species can actually be hybrids.

In most cases, it would be advisable to not breed albinos and albino siblings to create normal coloured specimens for sale. While there is a small probability that these fish could be pure, there is a larger probability they are not.

There is nothing wrong with ornamentalized strains, except when their genetics pollute the strains of proper strains.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

*Fogelhund*
Thanks for posting that and clearing the air on that subject. I agree 100% with what you said.... What's sad is when not pure pedigree specimens get mixed with pure ones of a species that is extinct or endangered in the wild which happens a lot with Victorian species... Otherwise I have nothing against most ornamental strains (with the exception of the few that I mentioned like the camel back catfish) as most are just plain beautiful. My Albino Taiwan Reef for example is a real beauty and was one of my first fish too...

~Ed


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## Sick-Lid-4-Life (Mar 22, 2008)

Marduk said:


> Sick-Lid-4-Life said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes an inexperienced person that sees a fish that looks slightly different right away pulls the hybrid card.
> ...


What I said wasn't directed toward you.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

Sick-Lid-4-Life said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> > Sick-Lid-4-Life said:
> ...


 Sorry then...


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Marduk said:


> gage said:
> 
> 
> > im not to sure how we got talking about albinos in the first place, but whoever said albinos are hybrids needs to do some reading LOL


I never said all albinos are hybrids. What I was saying that was a lot of fish sold as albinos could possibly and/or are likely hybrids at some point in their lineage when the breeder of that variant introduced it from another fish. Just like with some of the OB fryeri's and OB peacocks, breeders have hybridized fish in order to introduce the albino gene. The albino gene is likely so rare in fish species I doubt that all the albino fish sold today (albino eureka reds, albino flavescent peacocks, albino fryeri, albino taiwan reef, albino ruby red, albino kribensis, and so on) are pure. Some of them may be, but definitely not all of them. Besides, most of the albino fish sold originally came from Florida fish farmers who are notorious for hybridizing fish (albino taiwan reefs for example were created by Florida fish farmers, and albino eureka reds or eureka reds in general are hybrids (man made fish, not line bred).

For example, below are links from a reliable source confirming what I was saying about the albino taiwan reef, the albino flavescent, and one I missed the albino stuartgranti Marleri Isl:
http://www.cichlidnewsmagazine.com/issu ... tsnew.html
"Developed in Florida some time ago, Protomelas sp. â€œsteveni Taiwan albinoâ€


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

gage said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> > gage said:
> ...


:lol::lol:... Again, sorry.... :lol:


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

:lol:, no problem.


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## wsa88 (Mar 19, 2004)

I work at a pet store. Not going to mention the name. Anyway on Monday we received some Zebra Obliquidens and wow talk about hormoned fish. They weren't even a inch yet and showing full color and to top it off the had that ballon body to them. Kinda of like those Ballon bodied rams that are sold. The Zebra Obliquidens looked just like that. It was too funny. I don't how the ballon thing happens but I can tell you I really don't like it all. I don't get why this kind of thing still happens in the trade. I can't stand the Far East cichlids, I'm all about supporting local breeders. There are enough fish for everyone to enjoy. Why make some man made piece of #$#@$#@$? I try to get my boss to buy from a local breeder but its all about nickel and dimes with him. Which sucks for me cause I'm the cichlid guy at the store and I have to explain why the fish are like that. And the worst are the Jellybean Parrot fish. If I had a dollar for everytime I had to explain that I'd be rich.


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