# Day 1 of pseudotropheus saulosi tank



## JessicaMG (Oct 19, 2014)

Hello all, any help would be appreciated.
I will describe my tank as well as I can, most of it won't be helpful and please ignore pointless rambling, but it should help to get a good idea of the tank
Tank = 180 litre (47US gallon) 48" long, wish I'd got a bigger one, but this will have to do until they're all adults and I can afford an upgrade
Lots of holey limestone rocks as cover and pH buffer, a slightly garish, large plastic pipe, but they really love it, some drilled rainbow rock and small limestone rocks placed throughout
Plastic plants for potential fry cover and 7 large marimo moss balls 
Steady temp at 27C
Filtration - Fluval U4 and Fluval 4plus, however 4plus will be removed later this week as I am setting up new Fluval 406 today, and 4plus will be put into QT tank for 2 females I am picking up next weekend
pH is low at 7.4, but I tried to raise it and keep it steady with baking soda while I was cycling it, but it kept dropping back to this, and I'd rather keep a stable pH than one I have to keep raising and stressing the fish out, not to mention the retailer I purchased them from had their cichlid section at pH of only 7.6, I also have crushed oyster shells on the way, which I will be gradually adding to the 406 to SLOWLY raise pH to a safer area.
Today's test results with API liquid test kit:
High range pH - 7.4 
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 30
GH and KH are both in the mid to high ranges, both well over 100ppm (judging by strips) but I will test again when I buy a liquid kit and get a correct reading
Tank was fully cycled with ammonia.
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Fish
I purchased 12 pseudotropheus saulosi yesterday from Homeleigh aquatics, 2 males that are nearly fully grown, and the rest were fish they'd shipped in for me that week, they said they would guarantee 10 females, but I didn't believe them, and low and behold, all but one of the 'females' were simply juveniles, so I'm prepared for a lot of males, as a closer look revealed a few had egg spots, some were barring, even showing blueish faces and others had black 'yellowlab-like' lines on their top fins, so I have reserved 2 adult females from somewhere else, to try to even up the ratio, and Homeleigh have very graciously agreed that in 4 weeks, when my new females are ready to go into the tank, I can take back any juveniles I know to be male and swap for some that will hopefully be female.

They were drip acclimatised and then floated to temperature acclimatise, they weren't fed yesterday, and the light was kept off, they seemed fine but given the lack of light I couldn't get a close look at them, the males were already establishing territories and the 'females' were out in the open and only seeking out cover when a male chased them. 
I fed them this morning, 1mm NLS pellet, as it was recommended by a lot of people and only had 34% protein, they all had some, but as I was testing the water I got a close look at one of the juveniles, she looks to have a sunken stomach, swollen anus and clear, stringy poo, I think some of the fish may have eaten some of the clear algae that had grown on the suction cups of the heater, which would explain the poo, but the sunken stomach worries me, I've seen the fish eat a pellet and I don't think she spat it out, but she has started hiding behind the filter, another worrying sign.
I know they are stressed out from being shipped and put in a different water chemistry, but I'm going to observe her behaviour and making sure she's keeping food down, and then see if her poo gains some colour.
I know this is a bit of an information overload, but if I've done something wrong, or something is wrong with them, I need to know and deal with it.
Also, I would like some help in identifying some black spots on 3 of the juveniles, they are not raised spots, but are they stress related? does anyone think they could be hybrids? Or could they just be saulosi with distinguishing marks?
Thank you to anyone who can help. Jessica

I will try to get some pictures up after I've done a water change as I want to lower my nitrates.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Welcome to the forum Jessica! Sounds like you did your homework. Kudos.

7.4 is fine. As you said, stability is key. I'd skip the oyster shells.

The black marks could be spirulina spotting. Maybe try posting a picture. Saulosi seem to be male heavy. Out of the original ones I raised and fry I've grown out, I'd say about 60-65% are males.

The clear poop is concerning. If the fish is indeed feeding and keeping down food(observe and be sure it's not spitting it out minutes later) it may need to fill out. If not, treatment will be necessary. You could, as a precautionary measure, add Epsom salt to the tank- 1 tbsp per 5 gallons. It will act as a laxative. Add slowly over the course of a day. I would do this after your WC, though. If the fish continues to hide in the corners, I'd remove to avoid opening up the tank to a stress related illness. Here's a helpful article-http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/malawi_bloat2_pt1.php

I'd also recommend upping the numbers overall to around 25-30.


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## JessicaMG (Oct 19, 2014)

Thank you so much for replying, and could I really have that many such a small tank? I'd love to, I don't mind upping the water changes.
Here's the girl in the first two pictures, and the rest are the few with the spots, they seem a little extensive for spirulina spots from what I've read about them last night, I'd be shocked if it was ammonia/ nitrate burn though, and a little disappointed in the suppliers... I'll order some epsom salt and get that going, thanks Iggy

IMG_4237 by jmgillespie8, on Flickr
IMG_4221 by jmgillespie8, on Flickr
IMG_4232 by jmgillespie8, on Flickr
IMG_4206 by jmgillespie8, on Flickr
IMG_4203 by jmgillespie8, on Flickr


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## cumbrianewbie (Jul 25, 2013)

Hi Jessica, congratulations on your new tank.

First thing to point out is that I've only kept Saulosi for 18 months, so I'm hardly the oracle on the species just yet ! However, having looked at your pics those fish do not seem to be in the greatest of condition. Not just the spots, but the torn fins do not look great either. Although, I'm sure the fins will recover well given a little time. The salt should help with the healing as mentioned above.

I'm really not sure about the black spots, but I've never seen any of those on my fish. I've read the same things as you about potential spirulina overdose or nitrate burns.

I must admit, I would be wary of getting more fish from the same supplier. If you want the name of the guy I got my quality mail-order Saulosi from, then just feel free to send me a PM.

It's a shame you're the other end of the country, as I actually have 15 of my inch long Saulosi fry sat in my small grow out tank at the moment and I'm just about to advertise them for sale locally. Having said that, if you're passing through Cumbria anytime soon and still need some more fish :lol:


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## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

Great thread so far, good luck with your tank. Your saulosi at a glance don't look pure. I have some growing out right now and none show signs of brown spots on them.


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## JessicaMG (Oct 19, 2014)

Thanks for the replies, it's lovely to know what I lack in experience can be made up for by asking others for theirs.
It's the three smallest who have torn fins, which was probably caused by them being kept in the same tank with lots of aggressive adult males and no places for the small ones to hide, just one tiny pot which a huge male had claimed.
I would love to go back and demand a full refund and that they take them back, but there is nowhere in Cornwall which would provide us with the right ratio, all the stores we tried will only sell them as mated pairs, and the place I am getting my females from will not guarantee gender for any they ship in, so it's been a bit of a struggle just to get these, also I can't find any private listings for them, I should have gone with a more common species looking back.
It's a shame they don't look pure to you Cichlidman, I might have to stand my ground and take back any girls that I can't confirm to be pure saulosi, I don't mind them being hybrids, but I don't want to be left with an over crowded tank because I can't sell their fry later on, thank you for confirming my suspicion, I'm uploading a small group shot of the 'yellows', and they look a little better than the others I've posted.
I have been watching the thin girl with stringy poop, and I'm very relieved to say I watched her keep down her NLS, and when I came back a while later she had poop the colour of the pellet! She doesn't look quite so sunken today, maybe that's just wishful thinking, but the 3rd picture is her after I got back from work today.
IMG_4289 by jmgillespie8, on Flickr
IMG_4292 by jmgillespie8, on Flickr
IMG_4311 by jmgillespie8, on Flickr
IMG_4281 by jmgillespie8, on Flickr


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Regarding the spotting-
Looks like spirulina spotting to me. A couple of my females recently developed this. I had been feeding NLS Algae Max, which is what I've been using for other mbuna for much of the year. I recently switched foods to try and alleviate this with the saulosi. I've only had fish develop the spotting that have a single color base- P. Saulosi, P. Eleagans(Acei) and M. Estherae(red zebra). In all instances it went away over time.

Glad to hear the little one is keeping down food.

The body and head shape does appear a bit off IMO. The originals I started with and the fry I've raised/raising never looked so elongated. Have any pics of the males/breeding stock? Also, when uploading from Flickr, change the size of the photo to large or anything but small. It would be easier to see them here without opening the link.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

They seemed to be stressed out saulosi to me. I suspect after your keeping them for awhile,and feeding them proper they will look just fine.Good Luck!!


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## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

It's fine. See if you an get a refund. If not keep em, they still are fish and may please you. Just make sure not to sell or give away any fry. Also I like the look of your tank. What are you using for filtration?


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## JessicaMG (Oct 19, 2014)

I'm glad to hear it looks like spirulina spotting, sounds painfree compared to ammonia/nitrate burns, but I'll keep my eye out for any 'burn' symptoms. I'm feeding NLS cichlid formular, I did ask what they were fed before they got to homeleigh, but the guy didn't know, he said it was probably New Era, and no knowledge of the parental stock, they were unwilling to give me the name of their supplier... And thanks Iggy, I'll increase the picture size next time, it didn't occur to me to up the thumbnail size to sink the link process.
And I hope so master chi, even if some of them are going back, I like seeing weird, weak juveniles thrive in my tank.
Thanks Cichlidman, I've got a Fluval U4 and Fluval 406, plus a 4Plus running which will go over and filter my QT (providing these guys don't have any problems that will infect the new females).


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## sweety (Jan 10, 2010)

Salousi are great fish & have been keeping them for almost a year now & hopefully in the new year i'll be getting a custom tank built for them as they will need a bigger tank than the 3ft they are in at the min. I have a high ratio of males just it's hard to tell them from the girls at the min unless they have their little squabbles as they haven't start to colour up yet. BTW cumbrianewbie the Saulosi I got off you are doing great & one male is going through the colour change & I think he's going to be a stunner :thumb: plus he gets on with my head male great


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