# Cichlid live meal (the hunt)



## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

I just set up a Cichlid tank, 30 Gallon Hex with 3 Cichlids and a Pleco (1 Electric Blue, 1 Yellow Lab, 1 Bumblebee) they are approx. 1 inch at the moment. The tank has been cycled without fish for a week, and now with the fish for a week. All levels are perfect and are staying so. I've kept fish for a few years now so I have a solid knowledge on fishkeeping. I've made my tank as natural as possible, including drift wood and Texas holey rock I collected in a quick moving/heavy flow river near my house (All boiled to steralization of course). Plenty of caves for them to dart around in. Its a beautiful setting for Cichlids and am very proud of it! Now to the main topic, enough about my setup. As crude as it may sound, I would like to have a constant supply of little fish (Amount varying with size) that my Cichlids could, for lack of a better word, hunt. In the wild they don't eat pellets, I want them to be as happy and feel as natural as possible in their new home. From what I understand Cichlids are extremely aggressive/stubborn/intelligent and would love a good challenge. If anyone has a good idea of what I can keep in the tank that will provide my little friends with a good hunt at their size I would be forever grateful! Thank you in advance for your input and can't wait to read the feedback!


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

None of those cichlids are suited to that tank, it's too small and has a totally inappropriate foot print. The lab has completely different dietary requirements than the others, and they will probably eat him when they get bigger. You should take them all back if you can, or get a bigger more appropriate aquarium for them, and separate the lab from the others.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Welcome to Cichlid-forum!

These fish eat algae and micro-crustaceans in the wild...they are not carnivores. You could feed them algae/vegetables and cyclopeeze (or maybe daphnia once a week) for example to come close to their wild diet.

There are Malawi that are piscivores and hunt, but they would need a bigger tank.

Actually, the electric blue and the bumblebee are aggressive fish and will do better in a 48" x 18" rectangle tank, or larger.


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

Unfortunately this is what I have, I had the tank and found the rocks and wood. The fish I picked up for cheap. This is my first cichlid tank however. I did a fair bit of reading before I picked up the fish and am surprised to hear the tank isnt suitable. I've heard the hex tanks are great for cichlids, more so because of the rock formations i've built. My neighbor has a yellow lab and it eats beef heart twice a week and is thriving. As for the other two my LFS owner told me the other two would love the pellets and beef heart as well. Maybe Im wrong on the names, ill see if i can snap some pictures. I know for sure the one is a Bumblebee, any information specifically on that one? A little more information on the other two: The blue one looks white under regular light and more-so blue under my LEDs, has stripes vertically and seems fairly submissive. The "yellow lab" is more of an orange color with no stripes at all, pure yellow/orange. Any ideas? Hopefully I just got the names wrong and these are all suitable together.


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

The blue cichlid

The Bumblebee in the front, and the mystery yellow/orange in the back


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

If you're locked into that tank, then you should get fish that will work for it. Those will ultimately not work out well. They just need more room to grow.


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

Locked in only temporarily, I plan on getting at least a 55g in a few months. Just have to wait until my craigslist shopping pays off.


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

Sorry, I get kind of freaked out over those hex tanks. The bumblebee and Electric Blue can grow to 8 inches so I think even too big for a 55 gallon, but it could work for a bit. I thought they needed more protein rich food, but apparently they are fine with the same food as the lab.

When you say cycled without fish for a week do you just mean it was running for a week? It usually takes around 4 to 8 weeks to cycle a tank and build up enough bacteria to make the water safe. Keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite levels if you keep these fish in there unless you confirmed that the tank has completely cycled.


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

Sorry, more information was needed on the cycling. I cycled a smaller tank for over 3 months with a few random fish and used the (healthy) bacteria from that to speed up the cycle in my 30 gallon. I then cycled the 30 gallon with 5 Giant Danios for a week while constantly monitoring the levels and everything has been perfect to date. On the topic of the fish, do you think I may have been wrong in the types? They were in the "assorted" tank so I did some quick googling and thought I had identified them correctly. Needless to say I'm second guessing myself. Pictures above.


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## b3w4r3 (Dec 14, 2012)

The Electric Blue looks right from what I can see. Can't see the bb well enough, but the color looks right. The orange though doesn't look like correct lab color, they are bright yellow. Those assorted tanks contain low quality hybrids often, so you can never be sure.


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

Oh...that's unfortunate. So the orange could easily be a mutt. Either way he's very protective of his cave! I put some blanched cucumber in the tank to see if the others are in fact herbivores.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

Hex tanks are not the best choice for most African cichlids because they need a territory on the tank floor, and generally not so much height. There are cookie cutter suggestions in the site library, but they are not by any means all your options. For a 55, you could have yellow labs, victorian haps, peacocks, etc so once you get to the 4 ft length you have some real options. The 30 gallon will be ok to get started, but as they grow you will need the bigger tank. Keep in mind it helps to add fish in groups of 3 or more to prevent them from being the target of too much aggression.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

KirbyBTF said:


> From what I understand Cichlids are extremely aggressive/stubborn/intelligent and would love a good challenge. If anyone has a good idea of what I can keep in the tank that will provide my little friends with a good hunt at their size I would be forever grateful! Thank you in advance for your input and can't wait to read the feedback!


A bumblebee has a natural diet of catfish eggs, parasites off of the catfish, and just about anything else they can eat, including algae.

An electric blue... well there are many fish called electric blue. A Scieanochromis fryeri grows to 8", and IS a predatory cichlid. Having said that, feed fish often have diseases, so if you are going to feed live fish, you'll want to breed them yourself.

The Lab, they pick insect larvae and plankton from the algae in the rocks.

The blue fish is a Metriaclima lombardoi.

If you plan on keeping these fish, the minimum tank size is a 4ft 75 gallon, though really if you want to keep the electric blue fryeri, and bumblebee, you'd be better off with a 5ft or 6ft long tank.

----

On the beef heart, it isn't healthy for the fish, he'll end up killing them prematurely. People will eat McDonald's all the time too...

Pellets are well engineered to be very good food for our fish, and they are happy eating them.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

It's not that you can't use the 30 Hex for cichlids, just NOT these cichlids. The orangey yellow fish is likely one of the famous 'assorted cichlid' estherae / yellow lab crosses. These two species should not be kept together but that's about all you see in the assorted tanks in the big chain stores.

However, with that being said, the hex tank would make an okay home for a trio of yellow labs, or some of the Tangs.

Regardless of the tank size, unless you plan to go all male and you know these are all male, it's an accident waiting to happen, sooner than later.

And the bumblebee (crabro) looks like a bumblebee...That will be a big fish once it grows.

Get the 55G ASAP, preferably longer, and ask questions here about what else you put in the tank. All the years of fish keeping experience in the world doesn't prepare you for mbuna! I know from experience.


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

I did some more reading and it seems I have a Kenyi (Lombardoi as stated above) and a red zebra. The bumblebee was right on the money as well. I looked at the cichlid profiles on this forum and saw no reason these fish won't thrive together. As of right now two things need to change however. My gravel needs to be changed to sand, which is an easy fix, however they are still fairly stressed from the rehoming so that will wait a week or so. And switch to a larger tank with a much larger footprint. Other then that I'm happy to say my fish will be happy campers. One question however, all three of them are omnivores. Blanched vegis are a staple as well as the pellets. I have beef heart and was told specifically this is what all cichlids love. My research shows it could be unhealthy for them. Is this true? Should I stop and maybe switch to a live brine shrimp treat a few times a week?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Fogelhund said:


> On the beef heart, it isn't healthy for the fish,


Plus one.


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

Can I get some more information on why? Also update on the lombartoi, it looks like its not going to make it.I'm not sure why...everything in the tank is perfect and he hasn't been harassed by the other two as far as I can see. He seemed perfectly healthy when I purchased him. He's swimming weakly and having trouble staying upright, laying on the gravel when not moving. Any ideas?


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

When you say that your water tested perfect, what were the exact readings? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, kH/gh, pH. Using liquid test kit or strips?

You may not see the aggression happening, but it sounds like something different if the kenyi is lying on its side.


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

PH at 7.6 currently which is what it was at my LFS, I have buffer that raises it to, and keeps it at, around 8.2 which I put in last night. His illness begun before that however. Ammonia was at .50 ppm, Nitrate was at 0 ppm, and Nitrite was at 0 ppm. Unfortunately I had to leave for work this morning so I can't really monitor him for a bit. I can ask my wife for an update but she isnt fluent in fish.


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## vann59 (Jun 20, 2011)

What the profiles didn't tell you is that when they mature, it will be like having cryps and bloods in the same tank. Major conflict.


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

Well the electric blue is officially dead. Down the porcelain throne he goes. The mystery yellow/orange (Red Zebra?) and the Bumblebee are going to have issues later down the road? What other cichlids can I put with those two that will live peacefully? I'm going to be getting some new tank mates within the next week and want to thoroughly research before I put anything in there this time. Not making the assorted tank mistake again, pure bred only.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Hold off on adding anything. Your tank is not cycled. Ammonia showing is bad news. Most likely why your fish passed on. I suggest grabbing your own test kit that has the liquid and test tubes. Don't rely on your LFS. It's important to know your water parameters at the drop of a hat.

Are you using a dechlorinator? Some, such as Prime, will detoxify the ammo, nitrate, nitrates and may help save your remaining fish. You need to get the cycle completed before adding any other fish. Or you could add some Dr. Tims One & Only nitrifying bacteria in a bottle.

This happened to me, when I didn't know any better. Dr Tims worked for me.


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

it seems to me that u refuse to acknowlegde the suggestions and help that others have tried to give you on this subject. we all get impatient and want to get everything going asap. unfortunately that is the most common mistake made. imo your hex is good for a community fish tank, or a small group of harem breeding cichlid such as brichardi. i would not ad a thing to the tank as of now. just my opinion.


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

I have my own test kit and test the water daily, and the tank has been completely dechlorinated. The ammonia is (probably) primarily due to the filter transfer I did when setting up the tank. I had a 3 gallon cycling for a few months and used that bacteria to kick-start the tank. Thats why I'm so confused, ammonia has been at .50ppm since about day 2 of the initial tank set-up. It's not on approximately day 15(?) I'm not sure if the way I did the kick-start is better or worse than Dr Tims since mine was completely natural but not necissarily within the desired paramiters of ammonia level. As for adding anything, before I stated within the week I'll be getting more. That was incorrect, I'm in the army and my commander decided we're going on a 8 day long field excercise starting friday so that will give my tank more time to cycle with the two Cichlids I have in there already (Which by the way are still looking 100% happy and healthy). My wife will be monitoring the tank while I'm away and I will instruct her on what to do should the tank breach the desired paramiters.


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

sumthinfishy said:


> it seems to me that u refuse to acknowlegde the suggestions and help that others have tried to give you on this subject. we all get impatient and want to get everything going asap. unfortunately that is the most common mistake made. imo your hex is good for a community fish tank, or a small group of harem breeding cichlid such as brichardi. i would not ad a thing to the tank as of now. just my opinion.


Actually I'm taking all the information I can, and using it to improve my tank. As for the tank itself, it is already set up and has the cichlids in it. If for some unfortunate reason none of the cichlids make it I will make it a community tank. Unfortunately I was not as well informed as I should have been when setting the tank up, which is my fault. I was impatient as you stated, and that never ends well in the fish tank community. If you see a suggestion I missed I would be more than grateful for you to bring it up, otherwise I don't understand what I'm ignoring.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

It will cycle. Just gonna take some time. While you're away, your wife can do partial water changes to keep things in check. It's possible you may have started the cycle over. Washed your filter media in chlorinated water? Allowed your bio media to dry out? Did you ever show a nitrate reading with the danios? Ever see the nitrite spike and recede?

There's some great articles on here about cycling. I'm on my phone and can't copy/paste anything for you. I would do a water change when you get a chance. What kind of test kit do you have?


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

Definitely havent washed my media in chlorinated water, it HAS dried out though. When I first started the tank I had the original filter in the tank but replaced the media with the one from my quarantine tank. But that was when I still had the danios in there. There was no spike of nitrite which kind of worries me. As far as I'm aware it's SUPPOSED to spike, then recede. Is that correct? Could that mean the tank hasn't cycled like you mentioned? I will do a water change when I get home, would 25% suffice? Or should I go for a 50%? I will search for the articles on cycling. Thank you for all your help.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Cycling info: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=239823

If you're not showing nitrate, then your tank has not cycled. Test for ammonia before your water change. Still around 0.5, then change 50%. Try to keep it in between 0 - 0.25ppm.

I would say once you're done cycling it's time to take a look at your stocking plans/tank upgrade. Good luck!


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## KirbyBTF (Feb 26, 2013)

Awesome, thank you very much!


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

Young fish who aren't breeding age always get along well, but the war will be on when they get big! You could put anything in your hex tank for the short term, it doesn't really matter until they grow. I'd use it to grow young fish out while you find a bigger tank.

A diet of the wrong proteins is well known to cause an intestinal disorder called "Malawi bloat". Stressed fish from misinformed stocking suffer from this, too. Most of us have found that Malawi cichlids thrive on high quality pellet food, even the piscovores. Most of us have also put incompatible fish together, and gradually lost them. The nice people at the store aren't going to help here! They need to sell fish, and can't be expected to know everything about every fish they sell.

If you really want to do this right, I'd suggest trading them towards 8 good quality yellow labs, and look for a larger tank while they grow up and you figure out what other species you'd like to keep.


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## rgr4475 (Mar 19, 2008)

KirbyBTF said:


> I did some more reading and it seems I have a Kenyi (Lombardoi as stated above) and a red zebra. The bumblebee was right on the money as well. I looked at the cichlid profiles on this forum and saw no reason these fish won't thrive together. As of right now two things need to change however. My gravel needs to be changed to sand, which is an easy fix, however they are still fairly stressed from the rehoming so that will wait a week or so. And switch to a larger tank with a much larger footprint. Other then that I'm happy to say my fish will be happy campers. One question however, all three of them are omnivores. Blanched vegis are a staple as well as the pellets. I have beef heart and was told specifically this is what all cichlids love. My research shows it could be unhealthy for them. Is this true? Should I stop and maybe switch to a live brine shrimp treat a few times a week?


Do not feed your species of cichlids beef heart. Ever. All you really need is a good pellet and flake. I use to feed my mbuna cucumber and blanched peas with the shell removed once in a while, so those are fine. I stay away from brine or mysis. Fish don't need treats. Here is a good article - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php


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## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

No beef heart. Think of Omnivore as in a vegetarian who occasionally eats shrimp.

To address the thriving issue with these three fish, it's hard not to sound negative, but when you have been around these cichlids as long as some of us have, there are some definite "rules" that make for a harmonious mbuna tank.

#1...The tank footprint is the biggest stocking factor. The more floorspace the better. Unfortunately, Hex tanks are probably the worst choice for mbuna(rock dwelling) cichlids.
#2 Breeding groups of 1 male to 3-4 females of the same species helps to provent hybrids, and reduces aggression.
#3 Overstock the tank to reduce aggression, and provide 7-10 times the turnover in filtration.

So, you have a very small footprint, 3 different species, and can't overstock because the tank is too small. The odds of this working long term are, unfortunately, very low. If they are all males, they may stake out different territories and get along, or they may all want the same one, and fight to death. If there is one female,all heck will break lose when they become sexually active. The two males will probably fight for the single female, and when one kills the other, harass the single female so much that she dies. It's just not probable that this will work, especially long term.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

KirbyBTF said:


> I did some more reading and it seems I have a Kenyi (Lombardoi as stated above) and a red zebra. The bumblebee was right on the money as well. I looked at the cichlid profiles on this forum and saw no reason these fish won't thrive together. As of right now two things need to change however. My gravel needs to be changed to sand, which is an easy fix, however they are still fairly stressed from the rehoming so that will wait a week or so. And switch to a larger tank with a much larger footprint. Other then that I'm happy to say my fish will be happy campers. One question however, all three of them are omnivores. Blanched vegis are a staple as well as the pellets. I have beef heart and was told specifically this is what all cichlids love. My research shows it could be unhealthy for them. Is this true? Should I stop and maybe switch to a live brine shrimp treat a few times a week?


Yes....stop feeding them beef hearts. It will kill them. Really all they need is a good pellet food like Dainichi or NLS. That is all. It has shrimp, fish, etc...in the pellet. If you are dead set on feeding something besides the pellets then feed them brine shrimp once a week and feed the pellets the rest of the time. Only feed once a day. If the fish start looking rounded around the belly you are feeding too much. They should ALWAYS appear like they are hungry. They should always rush the tank when you enter the room. If they don't you are feeding too much.

You need to get them out of that hex tank ASAP. I wouldn't even bother with a 55g with the fish you want to keep. A 75g should be minimum size but a 125g used on CL would be a MUCH better option if you can find one.

As far as the fish living together they can survive together IF the tank is big enough. A 55g and really even a 75g isn't a big enough tank to house VERY aggressive fish like the Crabro(bumblebee) or the Kenyi.


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