# Labidochromis caeruleus yeah right



## Woodworm

Got these last weekend. They were billed as Labidochromis caeruleus I know that isn't right, but I do want to know if anyone has a clue if they are something other then a hybrid. I will keep them in my show tank and away from my labs and if they produce fry those will go into my Malagasy tank.


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## Woodworm

OK got to figure out the pic thing so I will get them up as soon as I get the right link posted LOL


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## Woodworm




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## Woodworm

found it :lol:


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## Fogelhund

It is as you said...just not very well bred.


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## decepticonpaul

they look awesome though


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## Woodworm

they are beautiful and I think they will be great in the show tank just don't want to pas on fry if they aren't pure


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## Fogelhund

I think they are pure, but I wouldn't want to use them for breeding stock.


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## brinkles

What's going on with the blue on their face though? That's interesting.


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## Fogelhund

brinkles said:


> What's going on with the blue on their face though? That's interesting.


I've seen that on some males over the years. Not desirable, but it happens.


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## punk3r12

desirable to whom? I dig it... i get njot breeding them though... hay maybe just breed for the blue face... that would be sweet. ... i like it!


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## 13razorbackfan

I like the blue in the face. I think it is a very nice fish.


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## JohanniMan

have a male now that gets a blue face when he eats.. its pretty cool looking


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## RifterFish

Where did you get these guys? I've debated this subject before, but what you have is the closest I have seen to pure electric yellows. The common ones you see in most fish stores are bred to be pure yellow with black streaks. What you have are very rare electrics in their purest form. ****, I want some of those. Lucky! These are what the first electric yellows that were discovered looked like. There are a few articles online and they are hard to find. I will so buy your fry - please contact me if you ever breed any. This is certainly a preference. But I have been researching these guys and taking interest in the pure form for a couple years. You just don't find wild-caught yellow labs or even F0 - even if they claim to be. Be proud of what you got. A great find in my opinion. The closest I have come are the bearded ones and warm yellow females with grey streaks and slight barring. What you have are fantastic. Please keep in touch with me. I don't know how many you have but I will buy a male from you for a disclosed amount. We can PM. I am so jealous right now. :drooling:


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## Steffano2

They are really cool, and I agree with *RifterFish* definitely not the line bred that you see around everyday. They look like 3 males from the picture?


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## ILCichlid

lol Rifter...Just stop with all the bs lies about yellow labs. It's like every thread you want to talk out of your ass.

The fish is nothing but probably an F6 Yellow Lab that's parents were probably from a heavily inbred line.

The blue color morph on the face isn't that uncommon, it's just like the color morph that has the white throat and belly.


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## Nina_b

Yep, must agree with some others - good ol' yellob labs, but not very good quality ones. I'm glad the op likes them, enjoy them!

+1 on not really breeding stock, though.


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## 13razorbackfan

I still like them!! The blue faces really provide a beautiful contrast IMO. I would consider getting a some for my tank if they had some around here with blue faces. I am not trying to offend anybody here, hopefully nobody takes it way, but I have never seen the big deal about these fish as they are just plain yellow. Now the ones with the blue faces have peaked my interest.

Just out of curiosity...I have heard many people say this....why would poor breeding cause their faces to turn blue?


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## ILCichlid

Poor breeding doesn't cause the face to turn blue. That is a natural colormorph. It's the barring on that one that is from poor breeding.

The issue is that some people think that the blue face or the white bellied color morphs are from poor breeding when they are not so you get a good amount of breeders who weed them out at a young age.

If you were to go to Malawi in search of Labidochromis caeruleus you would actually come across mostly blue and white versions of these fish. The Yellow version of this species is rare in the wild and when it was first discovered, the founder Stuart Grant refused to collect and export the fish due to his belief that it could push them into extinction.

Pierre brichard later obtained a pair from some scientists that supposedly bribed Stuart Grant's divers into showing them the location and collecting a pair. Brichard managed to breed almost 20,000 of the yellow version of this species all related to that first origional pair in his breeding ponds on the shores of Lake Tanganyika and that is when the yellow version was exported and spread across the world.

It's strongly believed that almost all of the Yellow Labs in the hobby are descendants of Brichard's first mated pair.


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## 13razorbackfan

ILCichlid said:


> Poor breeding doesn't cause the face to turn blue. That is a natural colormorph. It's the barring on that one that is from poor breeding.
> 
> The issue is that some people think that the blue face or the white bellied color morphs are from poor breeding when they are not so you get a good amount of breeders who weed them out at a young age


I know in the first pic it looks as though he is quite agitated with fins raised so I assumed that is why the black bars were showing so strong. Maybe he was just showing dominance or something. Regardless....I like the blue faces. You are saying there are some in the wild that look that way naturally or that most in the wild look this way? I think they are gorgeous...


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## ILCichlid

There are some, There are a lot of different color morphs from different locations but very few actual Yellow Labidochromis Caeruleus, The blue face morphs or the white belly ones are just in the genes, maybe many generations ago there was natural cross breeding between some of the rare yellows and the more common blues that cause that gene or maybe not, impossible to know.

It's not a sign of low quality or bad breeding though.


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## ILCichlid

The Labidochromis caeruleus color morphs are

White with blue fins- This fish is from Nkhata bay, and is becoming very popular now.
White- From Lundu Island
Yellow with a blue dorsal- From Kakusa
Lion's Cove- This is the most popular in the hobby.
White with dark blue bar- This fish comes from Undu Point.
Albino

These are the standard morphs but then you get different morphs within species as well.


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## 13razorbackfan

ILCichlid said:


> There are some, There are a lot of different color morphs from different locations but very few actual Yellow Labidochromis Caeruleus, The blue face morphs or the white belly ones are just in the genes, maybe many generations ago there was natural cross breeding between some of the rare yellows and the more common blues that cause that gene or maybe not, impossible to know.
> 
> It's not a sign of low quality or bad breeding though.


Gotcha...I was thinking as someone mentioned poor breeding that I wished I could find some discounted poorly bred fish that looked that way in my area! I have had all yellow labs in the past but just outgrew the solid yellow quite quickly. If I could find some like that in my area I would certainly take some. Their coloration reminds me of my aulonocara maleri.


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## RifterFish

ILCichlid you just contradicted yourself many times in the last few posts. If anyone is talking out of their ass it is you. What makes you such an expert on this species? One minute it is poor quality the next it is natural and then you take information that I posted on the original species and try to act like you know what the **** you are talking about. You are rude and ignorant. I think you just like arguing. I guess some people think if they have a book then they are experts when it comes to african cichlids. It is only through experience, breeding, and vast research that you can claim you know something. To the original poster, do not listen to a ounce of what this person is saying. They do not know jack about this species. He/she cannot make up their mind of what is true and not true about coloring. It is the fact that the original species, as noted in some articles and literature, was taken and bred 20,000 times before hitting the market is a huge flashing beacon (that some people are blind to even when it is beaming in their face) that they have been manipulated through breeding to look they way they do at the pet shops. There are a couple pictures out there of wild-caught, they are incredibly hard to find because it just isn't done that often. Um, why did Brichard have to breed so many before showing them.... because he was trying to breed the barring and blue out of the face. Again, it is a matter of opinion on what is poor quality and what is high quality. Some people say poor quality because of the desired yellow bodies in the hobby. For people in the know, high quality is what nature intended them to look like. So, yeah go back to your book and read your two pages of text on the species that was written how many centuries ago? and stop acting like you are the end all be all of knowledge.


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## ILCichlid

I'll take all the recorded information and research about them in the wild over some crackpot's theories with unfounded information anyday, Rifter.


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## RifterFish

Oh, you have all the recorded information and research on hand? My apologizes, I wasn't aware that you are in possession of such vast knowledge on the species that ever was and ever will be. I would love to see it some time. Tell you what, if you go to Africa and bring me a wild-caught Labidochromis caeruleus that looks like the ones cranked out by the hobby, then I will shut up and say that I was wrong and you were right, and apologize for not being as knowledgeable on the species as you.

Good luck with that.

When I first noticed my very first yellow lab sporting a beard I freaked out and thought there was something wrong with him. So I began researching WHY this is so. I didn't just stop with one or two articles and say, yeah that is how it is supposed to be must be bad breeding. No, I dug deeper and deeper and took in all information available over a long period of time. I breed them, monitor them, compare them to other ones of the same species in shape and color all the time. The more I found out, the more I realized that the picture perfect Labidochromis caeruleus is bred to be that way. That is my conclusion of what I have studied. I do not do this with all my fish and I certainly do not claim to know everything there is to know about cichlids. There are way too many species for any one person to be an expert. But I took an interest in this one in particular and really put a lot of effort into finding out the origins of this species. I didn't just flip open a book and take it at face value. If you can say that you have done the same amount of research and looked at the species from all aspects, then I will respect your findings. But I really do not think that you have. At least not to the point where you can say that I am wrong. I have found evidence to the contrary. No it did not all come from the couple articles I posted. That would be stupid. What I was trying to do was introduce a different theory. There is not a lot of information on pure wild-caught Labidochromis caeruleus. Any pictures of them are almost non-existent. Why is this? Really, why? Not directing it at you just asking it in general to all. Why can't a person go out and find one that looks like the hobby fish in the wild? I want to see more pictures of them taken straight from nature.

To me, its like taking a breed of dog (even though all canines are hybridized to look a certain way) and cutting its ears to point upwards, and chopping off its tail to match what other people's dog of that breed look like in magazines and at dog shows. Why did the dog have to be mutilated if it is purebred? Doesn't purebred mean that is how it is born? Some people like the floppy ears and tail it was born with and don't seek to change a thing. I am one of those people. Doesn't make me wrong. Means I think differently about it.

It is one thing to give a sincere opinion and share information which opens a friendly debate. But it is another to chastise someone's opinion and try to put them down because you do not agree with it. That is bullying.


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## GTZ

Wild male and female at Mbowe island.









To correct some errors in the thread, Stig Janssen gave Brichard 2 yellow labs from which he bred 1000 offspring before he began selling them.
There are quite a few more variants than what has been listed. At Lion's Cove alone, there is more than one. In addition to Lion's Cove, add Londo Bay, Manda, Mbowe, Lundo Island, Thumbi Point, Lundu, Magunga Reef, Cape Kaiser, Kakusa, Hongi Island, Nkhoso Point, Undu Reef and Nkhata Bay.


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## RifterFish

Thus far have only focused on Lions Cove. I have seen some labeled as Lions Cove I and Lions Cove II. What does the I and II stand for? Haven't figured it out yet. Can you tell me where you got this picture from? When was it taken? I would like to read and learn more about it. Up until recent, I thought lions Cove was the origin of Labidochromis caeruleus. Only started learning there are more then one source. Lions Cove is my main focus for the ones I am referring to. All that I have seen do not look like this. Do you have wild pics of Lions Cove? They are toned and shaped differently, even in the hobby. Not a huge difference in shape but noticeably, particularly with the head.


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## JAyliffe

I'm still smarting from being duped with three that have no black on the fins  Pretty fish all three of them and they deserve the right to survive but I don't want them in my tank now


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## Steffano2

ILCichlid said:


> lol Rifter...Just stop with all the bs lies about yellow labs. It's like every thread you want to talk out of your ass.
> 
> The fish is nothing but probably an F6 Yellow Lab that's parents were probably from a heavily inbred line.
> 
> The blue color morph on the face isn't that uncommon, it's just like the color morph that has the white throat and belly.


Frankly *ILCichlid* everything you wrote here is BS too re: the back ground history of these fish pictured. You have no idea the background on the fish pictured here no more then does *Rifter*. The fact is that no one knows the history of said fish, I don't even think the OP does.

Again, is there any reason to be aggressive and "flame" another poster just b/c you want to be right? Seriously it's three fish that aren't yours' nor will your written words impact or change anyones mind whether they like them or not.

Now onto your idea/opinion of the blue face okay but not the stripes. Who said the stripes are of poor breeding? Last time I checked there was no written standard for any cichlid that's used for showing and judging said fish. Again, your opinion and expectancy of what other have said is good versus bad. Your opinion is your's not necessarily those of "other".

When Yellow Labs, came into the hobby and people were paying outrageous sums of money for 1" fry. Most if not all contained some barring whether faint or strong and blue coloration on the face. It wasn't until pictures started to appear in slick magazines w/ pure yellow fish that the rage was clean body and face.

Now my belief was that the original imports/releases were graded/culls w/ releasing the barred ones first and then solid colored (non-barred form) next or possibly from 2 different lake location variants. I know the story of one pair producing all the fish that hit the market, personally I don't hold that story to the level most people do. I'm suggesting marketing at its best to keep the price high, knowing that Florida Fish Farmers would be swooping down on the first imports to get them breeding and start cashing in on the yellow lab market. Oddly the solid yellow version was released and the barred version was considered not desirable. I recall after the solid yellow version was released when yellow labs would come up for auction everyone would run up to the "runner" and check to see if they had bars or not and the selling price reflected.

I personally will state that I never jumped on the Yellow Lab band wagon, I was keeping yellow peacocks at the time, 'Chipoka' and I personally liked them better. Yellow and blue fish with bars.  I did breed Yellow Labs for my BAP award, only for the points. I got my breeding group from a club member who paid big $$$ for "clean" fish supposed F1s.

I'm not taking sides here, just felt that all this aggressive cichlid "attacking behavior" isn't necessary and these forums are to share knowledge/opinions/ideas in a civil manner. I happen to have some personal history when the yellow lab was first released via working in the industry at the time and being heavily involved with breeding and keeping cichlids at the time.

IF I may add I don't have a "dog in the fight" as to good or bad quality i.e blue face & bars or not, just feel that "matter of fact statements of law" are just that on both sides and sharing opinions can be done in good discourse. My final words on this would boil down to one simple statement: Supply and demand. The public wanted the clean version of Yellow Lab so the "other" versions fell out of favor hence here were are today batting this ball around.


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## RifterFish

Very well put Steffano2. I do not think ILCichlid is wrong on his/her information. It is true for the hobby yellows of today. I personally am seeking the ones you described in your post. I love the blue face and barring. I would love to bring them back around, even if it is not the popular choice. They interest me. I'm attempting to do just that, but really need ones like what were first posted in this thread to do so. So far I have not achieved the blue as I was hoping. I think they are fantastic. Honestly, the comments thus far on the fish in question were all very positive, and I wonder why such length was taken to change what people seem to agree is a nice looking fish. I'll admit, all yellows are very pretty, but once I found out some originally had barring and blue on the face I was hooked. Again, it is a matter of preference in the end. I do not like to see people be embarassed or think they have low quality just because it is different from the marketed ones. I think you put it in such words that you translated perfectly what I was originally trying to get at before I found myself having to defend my posts. We all have different tastes, I guess I like 'dirty' looking Yellow Labs. The beards give them character to me. I think its wonderful. Feels right and natural to me. I'm still going to nag woodworm until he/she sells me some fry.


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## 24Tropheus

Boy do you guys argue over man made fish.
Quality = what you like. Thus poor quality and good quality are entirely personal views and hardly worth arguing about. I like this sort and you don't..................big deal?

All wild variants are cool.
http://www.malawi-dream.info/Labidochro ... ruleus.htm
Line bred ones and variant crossed ones have a market but sorry just not interested enough to comment on whats good quality and whats poor. It would only be a personal view.

Mbowe island ones are prob the closest to the "ideal" that many folks have in their heads for this fish. If not happy with the stuff we are supplied with by the breeders (I find it difficult to understand the prices line bred guys go for) then go WC. :wink:

All the best James


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## prov356

> I have seen some labeled as Lions Cove I and Lions Cove II. What does the I and II stand for? Haven't figured it out yet.


There are two variants found at Lion's Cove, one on the north end, one on the south end. This is probably what they're referring to, but only a guess. Those types of designations can be applied however by the seller. The one variant is all yellow, the other is yellow upper half, white lower half. If you go the link James provided, you'll see both.


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## GTZ

You can find quite a few pictures of a number of different variants in the wild at cichlidae.com
You will need a subscription ($30/yr).


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## 24Tropheus

GTZ said:


> You can find quite a few pictures of a number of different variants in the wild at cichlidae.com
> You will need a subscription ($30/yr).


Or Ã‚Â£20 for us in the UK.
Thats why I put up the free one at Malawi dream.   
http://www.malawi-dream.info/Labidochro ... ruleus.htm

All the best James


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## RifterFish

24Tropheus where were the pictures taken? Are they your own? I wish I could do that kind of camera work. They are stunning. I love how you can see all the little specs of blue throughout the body that you would probably miss just peering through the glass. I see now about the ones that have white on the underside. I haven't seen any of those in person. I wonder how such crisp pictures are taken. I think I need to upgrade my camera.


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