# rustoleum epoxy shield



## TNprogrammer (Jul 28, 2008)

Has anyone used this to waterproof a plywood tank?
http://www.mclendons.com/item.asp?sku=1 ... =&subcat2=


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

No, and I would ask Rustoleum some questions before considering it. At that price and with the mold and mildew claim, I would not be sure it is suitable until they say it is.

I have been looking at ceramic tile, not the red backed kind, as a way to seal a plywood tank. At less than $1 a square foot on sale, it would be an interesting experiment, gluing it in with silicone sealant instead of grout.


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## TNprogrammer (Jul 28, 2008)

funny you mention that mcdaphnia. I have often thought about tiling the inside of a tank. I figured if they do it for showers then maybe it's possible. But, of course, shower tiles aren't fully submerged all the time. So, would you glue the tile itself to the backer board/wood with silicone and then use silicone in the grooves just like you would grout?


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

TNprogrammer said:


> funny you mention that mcdaphnia. I have often thought about tiling the inside of a tank. I figured if they do it for showers then maybe it's possible. But, of course, shower tiles aren't fully submerged all the time. So, would you glue the tile itself to the backer board/wood with silicone and then use silicone in the grooves just like you would grout?


 It is just an idea at this point, not an experiment yet, but I would spray the inside with Krylon fusion to give a better surface for the silicone to grab at than raw wood. I'd put enough silicone behind the tile to ooze up into the grooves, and after it dries, cut it flush with a razor blade. Will it work? The red backed tile is porous, similar to clay pots, but the white backed should not be. I'd look for white backed tile with a solid coating of glaze. I would not paint the outside of the plywood at all so that any moisture that does seep into the wood could evaporate rather than build up and damage the pywood.

Here's a tangent. There was a cichlid breeder next town over who had many plywood tanks, all lined with Formica. A few of the tanks had a side that started to peel, but the glue behind the Formica seemed to seal off the wood, at least at first. He had 3/4" plywood run through the Formica factory where I think they use heat and pressure to apply the Formica. The guy was the lemon severum king with so many pairs of these, but when the green severums became more in demand, he crossed them with his lemons. The first generation looked like they were greens, but then you started seeing muddy looking lemons and 'tweeners that takes this tangent as far from the topic as I will go.


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## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

When you see ceramic tile installed below the water line there is always supposed to be a waterproof membrane installed behind the tile. Recently manufacturers have developed liners that are installed directly behind the tile. You can find specifications and standards and other sources for this type of liner at the Tile Council of North America's website. I would advise caution in selecting the membrane to be used in your aquarium projects as some will be more appropriate for this application than others. Having cautioned you, I can say that there are definitely systems and methods of installation that have been appropriate for this type of application for well over 2000 years and afford lots of creative possibilities that you wouldn't be able to obtain using sheetgoods like most glass and acrylic tanks are comprised of. Having recently priced sheets of acrylic for my own future aquarium builds..... I can assure you that I Will be utilizing these ceramic tile systems later on this year so I can save BIG bucks and actually be able to afford to stock my nice new custome tank once its built.


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## venustus19 (Aug 30, 2007)

maybe i should start a new topic on this, but i am just going to through it in here for now...
i still do not understand why you couldn't just use a pond liner to line the inside of a DIY tank...
is it because the glass would not adhere to the liner??? the liner would not have to be pushed into the corner at all, as the sand/decor would cover the imperfections... and up the back/sides, who cares if it is a little wavy, isn't that what we do with 3D backgrounds anyway...
just make sure you wrap the liner around the outside of the tank enough, and then when you go to trim out the tank, just cut off what would be seen, and leave the rest behind the trim...
i don't know, to me it seems like it would work, but again, i guess the main concern would be the glass adhering to the liner... maybe somehow add a piece of plastic/something to the inside of the tank where the glass would sit, so it would adhere then if the liner wouldn't work...
just been a thought... i would/will bring that up again someday if i decide to make a tank of substantial gallons...


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## TNprogrammer (Jul 28, 2008)

Venustus,
I have wondered the EXACT same thing many times. I think I'll start a thread because I really want to know the answer to it. In thinking about it, I too have thought that maybe it was just an issue of the glass not sticking to the liner via silicone very well. Let's find out


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## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

I would think that the major issue is not "will glass adhear to pond liner with silicone" so much as it is.."what system or construction methodology is used to prevent the clear sheetgood used from being forced outward by water pressure and breaking that silicone seal"

Just an observation on using just the pond liner: The practicality of this methodology is likely driven by the depth of the proposed tank. The deeper the tank, the larger the folds are at the inside corners, making them harder to cover up or disguise. Having said that, there are adhesives available similar to contact cement that are manufactured for the purpose of adhearing liner to liner. Once again, manufacturing standards and specifications should be closely inspected to insure they are not exceeded by the proposed build.

And just one more FYI: there are easier waterproofing products to use for this application than just typical pvc rubber pond liners. Easier, because by design, they can be applied to more irrregular shapes, while maintaining some rigidity. The use of any of this type of membrane would eliminate the issues one would encounter with inside corner folding of the pond liner. Some of these are two-part consisting of a fabric material and a liquid that is applied, and some are simply one-part trowelable membranes. The strength of any of these would be somewhat dependant on the rigidity of their substrate. In the case of a plywood tank, that would be the deflection of the plywood assembly.


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## Lancerlot (Feb 22, 2006)

TNprogrammer said:


> funny you mention that mcdaphnia. I have often thought about tiling the inside of a tank. I figured if they do it for showers then maybe it's possible. But, of course, shower tiles aren't fully submerged all the time. So, would you glue the tile itself to the backer board/wood with silicone and then use silicone in the grooves just like you would grout?


Find a tile that can that is completely water proof. As you know many Tiles are just glazed. Get a bad tile with uneven glazing and the water pressure from a tank will puncture that like nothing Then slowly leak out. Not pretty. Shower tiles arn't exactly meant to be used like that.

you might have to look for a water pressure approved tile like the ones used in swimming pools. those are 100% gaurenteed.


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## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

> Find a tile that can that is completely water proof. As you know many Tiles are just glazed. Get a bad tile with uneven glazing and the water pressure from a tank will puncture that like nothing Then slowly leak out. Not pretty. Shower tiles arn't exactly meant to be used like that.
> 
> you might have to look for a water pressure approved tile like the ones used in swimming pools. those are 100% gaurenteed.


Well, actually tile systems don't really work that way. In a pool, the waterproofing is supplied in the substrata of the pool system not the tile applied to the surface. The advantage of using ceramic in a pool system is that some (not all) installation methodologies are impervious to being submerged. Ceramic systems allow for moisture to pass thru them, so when ceramic is installed in a wet area there is always a system to collect that moisture installed behind the tile. Granted some tiles and installation methods pass less moisture than others and some grout systems pass less water than others. Steps used to prevent that in a ceramic system are usually detrimental and typically result in the loss of bond.
When looking for an appropriate tile the manufacturer's guidance would not include a water pressure rating as that is not an ANSI standard for ceramic tile manufacturing. It would however typically include some guidance about the particular tiles acceptability to be installed in a submerged application. That would also be true of the setting material and grout by the way.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

A couple here used to raise piranha in the basement in pond liners. You lay a foam board or other insulator on the floor, then put 2 by 12's or sand bags around the outside. No need for glass you just look down like nature intended you to :fish: look at fish.

Or the guy who had a pond up against his house and put a window in that went below the surface of the pond. It had a gasket like that used in pond skimmers and filters. The same kind of gasket could be used to hold glass in a liner/plywood aquarium.


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## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

I hope I didn't come across as trying to persuade against using pond liners. I was simply pointing out that the folds in the inside corners could be problematic in a pond liner application for a plywood tank, and to offer some options. 
Liner is a great solution for the two previously mentioned installations likely because in one situation the depth of the tank is less than 12" and in the other, dug out ponds don't typically include vertical sides and corners with right angles.

Pond liner could absolutely be used behind a ceramic finish and often is along with a 1" thick (or thicker) mortar bed is also installed between the liner and the ceramic tile. IMO Thats adding a bunch of weight unneccessarily though for a DIY plywood aquarium. There are membranes specific to the tile industry that are manufactured in a manner that allows ceramic to be bonded directly to them that are probably more DIY friendly for a plywood tank.


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## Stickzula (Sep 14, 2007)

why not just use good old Oatey PVC shower pan liner. Oatey has a solvent specifically designed to weld the seams of the liner together forming a waterproof bond. I read the 'guidelines' for seaming the liner and it basically said to overlap the pieces by 2" at the seam. Apply the solvent and add pressure/weight to the joint. Allow to cure and you've got a waterproof seam. I figure that you could adhere pan liner to the sheets of plywood with contact cement or other suitable adhesive(it isn't all that important that the liner is permanently adhered to the plywood since water pressure will keep it pressed against the wood anyway). Cut it to size, assemble the tank, and apply a 4" wide strip of liner to the corners using the Oatey solvent and following the instructions. They even provide how to tips for making water proof interior corners like where the bottom and sides meet. The downside is that it is a medium gray color and silicone probably won't stick too well so you would probably need to use a gasket around the glass. I don't know the cost comparison to epoxy or some of the other methods, but it seems like a pretty straight forward approach to the waterproofing issue.


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## WillieB (Jul 4, 2009)

Personally had great success with the oatly product on shower pans and as exterior liner for steam units but........ really bad results with exterior applications, roman tubs and custom jacuzzi/whirlpools. Worked better for me as a vapor barrier as opposed to a waterproof membrane. Didn't get any product support to speak of either when it failed. Thats been a few years ago now, since we found some better products to use and never tried them again.


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