# Cycling 65g tank with Stability



## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

Hello all,

I added Seachem Stability to a 65g fishless tank 3 weeks ago. I followed the directions and tested with API kit each day. After 3 or 4 days, the water turned very cloudy and then another 4 days or so later, it cleared (likely bacteria bloom). At about the 9 day mark (since I first started the cycle), Seachem said it was okay to add fish. I added 4 cichlids (1.5 - 2"). They are doing great, eating, moving around, etc. so no issues on that front. The water is clear and the tank looks great.

That brings me to main purpose of my post. In short, for the past 3 weeks, I have not seen any changes, or minor ones at that, of ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate. The ammonia started out at 1.0 on Day 1 and went down to .25, back up to 1.0 after 10 days, and since then has consistently been between 0.25 and 0.50. Nitrite went from 0 to 0.5 to 0.25 (max). The nitrate is basically 0 but seems to be a shade darker (basically 0). After 2 weeks of this and probably 3 or 4 40% water changes every other day once I added the fish, I called Seachem and they advised adding the Day 1 dosage (5-6 cap fulls) and stopping water changes. I did that a week ago. Basically, I want to get your opinion on the state of my tank and whether I should continue with Stability going into the 4th week.

As a side note, I have used several other Seachem products over the past 3 weeks such as Prime, Malawi/Victoria Buffer, and Cichlid Trace. Also, pH is 8.0, temp is almost 80, filter is a Fluval 306, and I'm using artificial plants.

Thanks.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

If you have found a routine of partial water changes and chemicals that keep your fish alive until bacteria and microbe colonies that use fish waste as an energy source (food) can proliferate, that's good. Filters have to be a little "dirty" to function effectively and that takes time.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

Right, but I haven't done many water changes and I saw no jump or drop in ammonia levels so there hasn't been an urgent need to do water changes. What I'm getting at is that I would expect in 3+ weeks for the ammonia to go higher than 1ppm. To keep the fish happy even with the 0.5 ammonia, I add prime every 48 hours to detoxify the bad bacteria.

Is that normal behavior? Also, given the low levels, is it okay to stock my tank now with more cichlids (I planned on having 15-20 total) or is it a better idea to add them when the fish cycle is completely over with?


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Ammonia is a chemical. not a bacteria. Prime adds other chemicals that counter the ammonia. Prime is not an antibiotic. Most bacteria in an aquarium are useful, not bad. Even the bad ones that make water cloudy gray or that turn the undersides of a tank ornament black and smelly are more nuisance than serious problems. Normal maintenance will keep the black bacteria from getting out of hand. The gray cloudiness usually is just temporary in a newly set up tank, or one that has received a too thorough cleaning.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

So you would continue on the current path? Also, what do you think about my question regarding adding more fish?


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

If it were me I'd keep the ammonia and nitrite in check by doing water changes and detoxifying with Prime. That said, I don't have a lot of faith in bacteria in a bottle. Seachem's advice to avoid water changes might be appropriate if there were no fish in the tank, but in this circumstance I do not agree with it.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

dledinger said:


> If it were me I'd keep the ammonia and nitrite in check by doing water changes and detoxifying with Prime. That said, I don't have a lot of faith in bacteria in a bottle. Seachem's advice to avoid water changes might be appropriate if there were no fish in the tank, but in this circumstance I do not agree with it.


I take it you're proposing adding pure ammonia directly? Even without doing water changes the past week, I am getting no changes in ammonia or nitrites - haven't needed to do a water change.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Do not add ammonia if you already have fish in the tank!

I would hold off on adding more fish until you are seeing zero ammonia & nitrites and you have a nitrate reading above zero. It does take a while for the beneficial bacteria to build up based on the current bio-load you have.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

Deeda said:


> Do not add ammonia if you already have fish in the tank!
> 
> I would hold off on adding more fish until you are seeing zero ammonia & nitrites and you have a nitrate reading above zero. It does take a while for the beneficial bacteria to build up based on the current bio-load you have.


So you would stick with letting Stability do its thing?


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I see that Seachem suggests "Fish and other aquatic species may be introduced at any time as long as dosage is maintained for 7 days" and you are well past that 7 days. Since you are using Prime to lower the toxicity of ammonia, I would just keep on that path. I don't know if continuing to add Stability will get you to a finished cycle any quicker.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

Deeda said:


> I see that Seachem suggests "Fish and other aquatic species may be introduced at any time as long as dosage is maintained for 7 days" and you are well past that 7 days. Since you are using Prime to lower the toxicity of ammonia, I would just keep on that path. I don't know if continuing to add Stability will get you to a finished cycle any quicker.


Exactly, but, as I mentioned before, what Seachem said last week was to add a new dose and don't touch the tank, including no water changes, which is what I'm doing. I'm just a little confused as to why in the 4th week now I see no change in ammonia (0.5) or nitrite (0.25).


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Right....definitely do not add ammonia with fish in the tank. Keep in check = if they rise do a water change or your fish will die.

If you have a detectable amount of ammonia or nitrite, I'd have a hard time believing that you would stop the cycle from progressing by doing a 50% water change. If it were me I would be doing 50% per day (at a minimum) until the cycle was complete and then resume a normal water change schedule. If you're testing daily and monitoring the levels then you can change water at whatever threshold you decide.


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## BryCola (Mar 29, 2016)

I'm currently cycling my 75 gallon tank with Stability also. It's been pretty weird...when I'm using the Stability, the ammonia drops and nitrites increase. Then nitrites start decreasing. So I would think the bacteria is setup and doing it's thing. But once I stop the Stability, everything stands still...ammonia stays at about 2 or 3 ppm...nitrites at 0. So it's like the only bacteria that was working was in the bottle...and none got setup in my tank/filter. I'm going on week 6, and it's really frustrating. So the jury is still out on Stability with me. Hopefully you'll have better luck.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I think the Prime is just binding the existing ammonia and nitrite in your tank which is why you are still seeing them present. Give it a couple more weeks and you should see the cycle completed.

You can also check out the FAQ section on Seachem's website for more detailed responses. I may have used Stability one or two times in the past but can't remember if I ran into this same issue before or not.

Do you have another cycled or mature aquarium that you might be able to borrow some media from to help boost this tank's bio-filtration?


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

I've heard it theorized that bacteria-in-a-bottle type products contain a type of bacteria that works (does consume ammonia and nitrite) but that quickly die in aquariums. If used for long enough and in repeated doses the ammonia and nitrite are kept low and replaced with normal aquarium bacteria over time. Not being a bio-chemist it makes sense to this layman.

The only fool proof ways I know of are to let it run it's course naturally, or add bio from another established aquarium. The latter being easiest and fastest.

Prime and water changes are both good things.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

Deeda said:


> I think the Prime is just binding the existing ammonia and nitrite in your tank which is why you are still seeing them present. Give it a couple more weeks and you should see the cycle completed.
> 
> You can also check out the FAQ section on Seachem's website for more detailed responses. I may have used Stability one or two times in the past but can't remember if I ran into this same issue before or not.
> 
> Do you have another cycled or mature aquarium that you might be able to borrow some media from to help boost this tank's bio-filtration?


I have access to a cycled 20g tank that has a simple power filter that hangs over the back of the tank. What would you advise I use from that filter?


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Assuming it uses a cartridge...I would tear the padding off of that and stuff it right into your fluval with whatever other bio media you're using. Alternatively, just rinse the cartridge in your new tank and let your new filter pick it up that way.


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

This is just another example of the bottle bacteria not doing anything and is just a waste of money (and maybe even time).

I agree with Deeda, do not add "Anything" to the tank now (no more of the Stability, fish, and especially ammonia) until you have a ready of zero for ammonia for a few days. I would still do WC though.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

dledinger said:


> Assuming it uses a cartridge...I would tear the padding off of that and stuff it right into your fluval with whatever other bio media you're using. Alternatively, just rinse the cartridge in your new tank and let your new filter pick it up that way.


Awesome. Thanks for the info. Before adding fish I did use water from that tank but actually putting the cartridge padding in my canister might be more effective over time. I take it that it doesn't matter what area/level of my fluval I put the padding at? ...as long as the water coming in from the tank runs through the padding?


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

I'd put it with whatever biomedia you're using, but it really doesn't matter IMO.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I agree about using some or all of the 20G tank's filter cartridge in the new tank as long as it won't impact the 20G tank. In other words, if you have been regularly changing the 20G tank cartridge AND that tank is mature (more than 6 months), you should be fine.

You can either add the mature cartridge to your existing filter (anywhere inside) or figure a way to 'hang' the cartridge in the Fluval outflow water stream underwater.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

Hey guys, I ended up taking a sponge from the filter on the cycled 20g, cutting it in half (so it fits) and then placing both pieces into my fluval 306. I'll give this a few weeks and see if any of my numbers change.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

That's a good plan! Good luck!


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

dledinger said:


> That's a good plan! Good luck!


X2


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## SrsSarcasM (Jan 28, 2016)

Despite some opinions here I've personally used the bottled bacteria (Stability) to great effect on many occasions.

Your water temp, pH, number of fish, turnover of water through filter, type of filter media, amount of feedings, water changes, any other chemicals you are using (stress zyme, etc) etc can all play a part in how effective Stability can be. Without knowing those factors we can only make recommendations.

Also note that the ammonia readings can adversely affected by using Prime on a regular basis, and some people believe (albeit never proven) that ammonia locked by Prime is not used as effectively by your bacteria as free ammonia, but this is overall better than poisoning your fish.

Lastly have you tried taking your sample to your LFS to have them test for ammonia? Your test kit may be expired.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

SrsSarcasM said:


> Lastly have you tried taking your sample to your LFS to have them test for ammonia? Your test kit may be expired.


Or just painfully difficult to read. Mine has always seemed slightly greener than the yellow shown on the chart....be it tap water, distilled water, or a tank that's been running for a decade. Nitrate is also terrible to read accurately.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

SrsSarcasM said:


> Despite some opinions here I've personally used the bottled bacteria (Stability) to great effect on many occasions.
> 
> Your water temp, pH, number of fish, turnover of water through filter, type of filter media, amount of feedings, water changes, any other chemicals you are using (stress zyme, etc) etc can all play a part in how effective Stability can be. Without knowing those factors we can only make recommendations.
> 
> ...


Hello,

That is the difficult part - to know what chemicals affect it and what doesn't. After reading many, many forums and calling Seachem a couple of times, they said that those products are okay to use with Stability. Who knows? Afterall, they do want customers to think they have to use all of their products. You mentioned the API kit. I bought it in March off of Amazon and the expiration dates on the bottles say 2020/2021.

As far as LFS, I took a sample to them the first week but have not since. I will consider this over the weekend. I do have one update on my tank since adding the sponge from the cycled 20g tank. Although it has only been 3 days or so since I put the sponge in, my ammonia has gone down to what looks like less than .25. The nitrite has gone down to 0 for the first time in 2 or 3 weeks. In fact, the ammonia does not even look like it's .25 but less. I tested some bottled water vs tap water vs my aquarium water. The tap water came out to 1.0 ppm, the bottled water at 0ppm, and the tank water was very, very, very close to the bottled water but a shade greener. Nitrates are still the same at 0 (actually a darker yellow but not even close to anything orange). Hopefully, the numbers I'm seeing are from adding the cycled 20g sponge and that I will see nitrate within the next week or two. I haven't changed the water in 7 or 8 days but it still looks clear and the fish look happy. I did dose with Prime a couple of days ago (Wednesday).

I'll post back here as I get new numbers in case it helps others.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the update, it does seem as if you are getting closer.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

Deeda said:


> Thanks for the update, it does seem as if you are getting closer.


Hi all-

I'm coming up on a week since putting the filtered 20g tank's sponge in my canister. As I already mentioned, within a day or 2, my nitrite dropped from 0.25 to 0 and my ammonia dropped very close to 0 but not quite. Ammonia has since gone up a little bit. I would say it's almost certainly less than 0.25. The nitrite looks very dark yellow, so I'm not sure if I have 2 or 3 ppm or if it's 0. I verified my results at my LFS to make sure my test kit is in working order.

I plan on waiting several more days to see if anything changes but I'm beginning to think I need to try a new tactic. It has been a month now since I first put Stability in. I'm debating the following:

Option 1 - Stay the course. I haven't done a water change in a week and a half and haven't added Prime in roughly 5 days.

Option 2 - Try Tetra Safestart Plus to get the cycle going again.

Option 3 - Add more fish to the 4 I currently have (stock my tank), keep up with water changes, and use Prime until the tank cycles.

Any thoughts? ...additional options?


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

I wouldn't do anything, so option 1. Your levels are all ok, so no water change is needed yet. I always show slightly over 0 on the API Ammonia test. Not quite yellow, there's always a faint green tint. Personally, I think the color cards are a tad off or at least the ones I have are.

You may have heard this but if not...make sure you're shaking the **** out of the Nitrate bottles before testing. I mean really shake the heck out of them. I can never remember which, but I think it's bottle 2 that separates. I even bang it on the granite counter tops a bit then shake like a mad man for a solid minute. The tube needs to be shaken quite well also, even though they always leak.

I think you're on the money. Levels are low or not detectable because of a relatively light stocking. If you stay the course you'll eventually detect the nitrate that indicates a complete cycle when coupled with zeros for ammonia and nitrite.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

dledinger said:


> I wouldn't do anything, so option 1. Your levels are all ok, so no water change is needed yet. I always show slightly over 0 on the API Ammonia test. Not quite yellow, there's always a faint green tint. Personally, I think the color cards are a tad off or at least the ones I have are.
> 
> You may have heard this but if not...make sure you're shaking the #%$& out of the Nitrate bottles before testing. I mean really shake the heck out of them. I can never remember which, but I think it's bottle 2 that separates. I even bang it on the granite counter tops a bit then shake like a mad man for a solid minute. The tube needs to be shaken quite well also, even though they always leak.
> 
> I think you're on the money. Levels are low or not detectable because of a relatively light stocking. If you stay the course you'll eventually detect the nitrate that indicates a complete cycle when coupled with zeros for ammonia and nitrite.


Thanks for the feedback. I noticed something after posting last night. I'm not sure if this is an issue but I usually check my api test tubes after 5 minutes. Last night, I left them out and then went to clean them out before bed, which was hours after I had actually completed the test. I noticed the ammonia was even more yellow with a extremely light tint of green. I would say it is .05. Regarding nitrate, I have read on discussion posts that mention this and I have been beating the **** out of both the bottle and test tube. I noticed the color is dark yellowish but not bright yellow like the chart shows. Hopefully, that means 2ppm but will wait until I'm certain. By the way, I verified my numbers at 2 LFS.

Does anyone have experience with having to wait a long time on the tests and is the test invalid if you wait until hours later?


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Most tests will get slightly darker if you leave them set for a couple hours.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

You need to read the test results immediately after the required test time otherwise you will get skewed results. Clean the test tubes right after you are done testing by rinsing them out multiple times with tap water and allow them to air dry if possible. Don't forget to also rinse the caps!


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

Deeda said:


> You need to read the test results immediately after the required test time otherwise you will get skewed results. Clean the test tubes right after you are done testing by rinsing them out multiple times with tap water and allow them to air dry if possible. Don't forget to also rinse the caps!


Yes, drying out the tubes came to mind a week or two after I started cycling. Good heads up!

I did another test today and same numbers as the past week: 0+ ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0+ nitrate. I compared the ammonia test tube against a bottled water test tube and they're virtually the same (slight green tint to the ammonia tube).

I haven't touched the tank or put anything in for a week now since I added the sponge from the 20g tank. Here are some general questions if you guys would be so kind to share your thoughts:

1. I have done a lot of reading on feeding but I can never find a concrete answer because I think it varies based on fish, tank size, etc. However, I have a bumblebee, electric blue johanni, electric yellow lab, and deep water hap. I feed twice a day - two tetra cichlid crisps for each fish (max three). They always grab 1 crisp, swim to another spot, munch for 20 seconds, then come back for another. I use cichlid pellets every several days to vary things up a bit, but they love the crisps a lot more than the pellets. Does my feeding regiment sound sufficient?

2. I've read that adding water from a cycled tank does not provide much benefit. Is it a good idea to add a couple gallons of the 20g tank to mine? My tank level has decreased probably an inch and a half but I don't want to have to add tap water and Prime in case it has a negative impact on the cycle.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Your feeding sounds good. I feed growing fish 2-3 times per day...as much as they can quickly eat and then stop. I wouldn't add tank water to the 65. Prime and tap water won't hurt the cycle. In your case, if the water is low and the filter is splashing as a result that's probably a good thing while you're cycling.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

Update -

As I mentioned before, a few days after putting a sponge in from a 20g established tank 2+ weeks ago, the ammonia went down to virtually 0, nitrites down to 0, but no nitrates. I didn't do any water changes since then until yesterday (50 - 75% water change). I dosed with Prime (my tap water has approximately 1ppm ammonia) and waited 24+ hours until today to do a test. My numbers came out as follows:

Ammonia: 0.25 - 0.5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: < 5ppm

So, for the first time I am seeing some nitrates. I uploaded a photo that you can see here: View Image Here. I have test strips that, albeit not as reliable as the API kit, do show some slight coloration for nitrates.

Several days ago, before doing the water change, I added 2 cichlids (1.5-2 inches) and I know that's the cause of the spike in ammonia because the ammonia jumped from essentially 0 up to .5 a day or two after I added them. As of now, there are a total of 6 cichlids ranging from 1.5" to 2" in my tank. My plan is to wait a few days to see if the ammonia drops or should I do 25% water changes every other day?


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

Since you dosed with Prime I'd be comfortable waiting it out (provided there are no symptoms in the fish).


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

dledinger said:


> Since you dosed with Prime I'd be comfortable waiting it out (provided there are no symptoms in the fish).


Fish are doing awesome...very energetic. I've read to wait 24 hours after adding prime before testing. Do you mean to wait out for the ammonia to go down or wait to test? If so, what amount of time do you wait?


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

I'm sorry, I didn't see your post. I meant wait to see if the levels dropped. If you haven't already - but I suspect you have - it is probably a good time to test.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

dledinger said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't see your post. I meant wait to see if the levels dropped. If you haven't already - but I suspect you have - it is probably a good time to test.


Yea, I didn't touch the tank after the water change on Friday and my ammonia has gone down from .5 to 0+. I can't tell if it's .10 or .15 or 0. I had this same issue last week. Again, I compared against a sample of bottled water and my tank sample is super close. The tank water is 1 shade of green darker but not dark enough to match .25 on the api chart. I'm not sure if this is normal. The nitrates are definitely orange but not more than 4 or 5 ppm.


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## dledinger (Mar 20, 2013)

You're winning the war slowly but surely. Keep doing what you're doing.


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

Hey guys,

I want to add an update on my tank in case it helps others. So, I ended up getting nitrates for the first time last Monday, which would be exactly 6 weeks to the day that I started the cycle with Stability. I honestly cannot say that Stability did anything or didn't do anything. My cycle was a very slow one, but what I learned is not to meddle with the tank while it's cycling. I currently have 0-0-5+.

For those of you who read this and want to know if I would recommend Seachem Stability, the answer is yes and no. "Yes" because my tank is cycled now and "No" because it took 6 weeks and I don't know what affect Stability had on it. If that answer doesn't help you much, what I will advise is using Tetra Safestart Plus. Be sure to follow the directions though. You can Google detailed directions online but basically, do a water change, add Prime, wait 24+ hours, add an entire bottle of TSS, drop a couple of fish in, and DO NOT touch your tank for 2 weeks. Leave it alone unless the ammonia gets high. There's a lot of discussion online as to what is considered high and what is considered moral in terms of the ammonia that's in the tank with the fish. Over the past 7 weeks, my ammonia level never got higher than 1.0 and was usually 0.25-0.50. After the 2 weeks when TSS finishes, do a water change.

Thanks dledinger for all of your feedback!


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Congratulations on finishing the tank cycling :dancing:


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## aausa1983 (Apr 6, 2016)

Deeda said:


> Congratulations on finishing the tank cycling :dancing:


Thanks bro!


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