# Pics of haps and mbuna that reside together! Peacocks too!



## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

I have read many times that people say it is tough or cant be done but it is very doable. I have a victorian in the tank that was an impulse buy but he is the only dude out of place. I also have many more peacocks and haps in the tank but this just shows you that everyone can live together peacefully if done right. All these fish are years old, except for the lethrinop who is only a year old, maybe a little older. If there is a fish you want, do the research and you can make the fish you want work in your tank!!


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## Timkat4867 (Jan 11, 2008)

Its good that your having success with your setup. Whats your setup (stocklist, rock work)? Size of tank?


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

Yeah, sorry. I have made it work with many tanks. This setup is a 200+ gallon tank that is 6ft by I believe 32 or 34 high by 24 back. I have two cannisters and one HOB on the tank. Largest rock is a little over 100lbs and I have a total of five rocks. All rocks are at least 14 inches long and 20+ lbs each and full of holes. Sand is Pool Filter sand. There is no Poo on the floor either. This is thanks to the cleanup crew and current of tank. I keep nugget plecos, snowball, mango and bristles to keep rocks clean and to give the rocks some life! Other Mbuna include, Afra, Labs, and Pseudo. You will also see that the finnage on the fish is excellent. Very little aggression in the tank unless spawning but even then, everyone gets out of the way.


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## Sheribobbins (Jan 13, 2010)

Nice work on your success with your setup! I am working on a mbuna hap peacock tank myself


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## eagl97 (Dec 26, 2006)

I just started mine but I only have Yellow Labs and Acei for Mbuna.


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## TheBanker (Jun 14, 2008)

im diggin the tank, looks good.


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## liquid134 (Feb 22, 2010)

so whats your poo clean up crew? lol


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## firenzena (Nov 29, 2009)

Very nice indeed!!

Can i suggest that this shows that with experience and patience such setups are worth the wait.
But like mixing drinks- Doing it on the fly and without a bit of 'time on the water' the outcome can be shortlived and regretful

How are the fins on the plecs? any photos of them?
BTW only the BN's would be keeping rocks clean.

What are Ph and nitrate levels?


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

Thanks guys. I have tried plants and the mbuna just dig them up. Nitrate is usually around 50 and every so often will hit 70, when that happens, Iusually do a huge water change and just empty the inside of the cannister. I usually do not change the media or clean the media. Clean up crew is mad fancy plecos and bristle nose. i have tons of nice plecs. Normal plecs poo like crazy!!! A powerhead gets rid of any settling poo. 
Without experience and knowing the true aggression of certain fish it can be tough to house them together. Afra are a no no if you purchase more than one. Especially if there is two and one is a female. They get mad aggressive when breeding.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Have you ever made it work in a 75G tank? I've heard it said that things often work in large tanks that are problems in smaller tanks. My experience has been different, my cynotilapia killed my peacock.


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

I have done it in as small as 35 gallon flat back hex. There are a few rules to follow, actually quite a few. Some Mbuna are less aggressive than others. The only aggressive species I have been able to keep a male and female of has been polit. Polit females can hold their own and when not ready to spawn, mine will actually buck up to the wild male. She hides once she realizes she can not take him. The Polit males usually do not bother anyone in the tank but other polits. Demasoni are quite a bit different. I have found that with demasoni, I can not keep more than one big male. They fight other males and females to death. They will even attack other species if they are breeding. The demasoni is the smallest fish in the 200 gallon but he is also the ruler of the tank. Even an 8 inch peacock stays its distance but will fight if bothered. 
With aggressive mbuna, only one male of a species. They can not look alike. Labs work well in a group of any size. Afra, polit, and demasoni are what I consider aggressive. They do not bother other fish if not breeding. You put two males of any of the species I listed and you are in trouble. I have trewvasse and fuelleborni and have found them to be very docile but also able to hold their own against anyone. Both these species work great in community tank. Once again, I do not have any females of the species. The only female mbuna I have are polit and lab. There is no cross breeding and as stated, polit usually only go after other polit. They defend their home and that is about it. 
With peacocks, I keep only males also. I do this because of their color and so their is no cross breeding. You have to make sure the males do not look alike, otherwise, once again, their will be issues and lots of stress! Once one male gets aggressive, he will want to fight anyone that gets in his way. I have found most peacocks are not very aggressive twords eachother if done right. My german red and sunshine go at it every so often for some reason but they never hurt one another. The german red and Taiwan reef also go at it but only when the Taiwan reef is breeding.
Haps!!! I keep females of every hap that I have and they do not cross breed at all. Key is that the females look different! The least aggressive I have found of the ones I have kept is the lithobate. He is very docile. I keep Tangerine tiger, Taiwan reef, Tanzania liuli, Lithobate, borleyi and Lethrinops. All the females look different and there is no crossbreeding. During breeding, these fish get aggressive but with all the other fish getting along, they will go to one side of the tank until the aggression is over. My fish breed every few weeks after they spit. 
If you go loading a tank with many different species and they look similar, you will have troubles. If you put females in for every species of mbuna you have, you will have troubles. I do not keep more than one male for any hap species that I have, if you do, the sub will be killed in the long run. the only species I have made this work with was red empress but this was only because the empress was dull and submissive, I would not try this. Lots of sub dominate males will play the role of female to survive but once they think they are tough, they usually end up dead! I will edit this with specific rules but I did not want someone to get the wrong idea after reading this and think they can just throw fish in. IT DOES NOT work like that.... Will post specific rules in a bit. Wish it was that easy but it is not.


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

One more note: It is best to introduce all the fish at the same time. My fish will kill any new tank mates. Let the fish grow together and if you introduce new fish, small fish is better than large. The fish take a large fish as a competitor while the small fish will probably be left alone. No IMPULSE buys....

Clean up crew.. I have a few of each and quite a few other types of plecs. The tank is about 4 years old.


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## justinf67 (Jul 19, 2009)

very cool and informative. A lot of the info is what is preached to others, but nobody truly follows. I have seen a few all male mbuna tank success stories popping up lately, which is pretty cool as that may get the juices going enough for me to try it down the road. For u to be able to mix an all male mbuna and peacock tank is quite an accomplishment. You say all at once as it'll lead to death when newbies are introduced. I get the same if I add anything new. I have observed most of the time mbuna to bicker some, but obviously during breeding its intensified a ton. Without females, I see it as a possibility... My question is how many and what have u had to move to make this work, as some individual fish dont get the hint in an all male tank and have to be removed. what have u had to move and did u replace it different male in hopes of that one being less aggressive.


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

Excellent question. Removed other demasoni, venustus, sub male afra, sub male Tanzania liuli, and that is it. I am good about picking out males as juveniles. Lost two femal3 llethrinop to afra a year ago. Male liuli did not come out until he was five inches. The dominate male almost killed him. Thing is, when a fish gets weak, everyone will gang up on it. Venustus cause to much stress through aggression. They also eat your fry. Once he was roemoved stress levels went way down and fish started breeding like mad. Predatory fish are not good for the health of a community tank and will more than likely equal failure in the long run, unless all fish are predators


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

firenzena said:


> Very nice indeed!!
> 
> Can i suggest that this shows that with experience and patience such setups are worth the wait.
> But like mixing drinks- Doing it on the fly and without a bit of 'time on the water' the outcome can be shortlived and regretful
> ...


Not true, my l018, snowball and bristlenose eat algae. I watch them daily. Flash do not seem so interested in cleaning but do eat spirulina tabs. All plecos are 3 to six inches long. My four nuggets are the. Largest
As you can see all fins are perfect. Curb aggression and all is well


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## firenzena (Nov 29, 2009)

They are will happily sucking on rocks and glass and filtering while doing that
Baryancistrus are an omnivore but not true algae eater.

Flash is a panaque( used to be panogolus) and some pleco spiriulina tabs have a wood content so I bet his is intio them as wood is ESSENTIAL in their diet. Do you have a piece in tank for him?

The plecs I keep under peacock hap tank.









The only trouble was with an Afra male that wanted to nip L203 lyetail


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## dannyw711 (Jan 27, 2010)

i have the same thing mix malawi 90al they are all good


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## dannyw711 (Jan 27, 2010)

sorry i meant 90 gal


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## PiePuncher (Feb 1, 2005)

Have kept flash plecos for years with no wood. Hbh spirulina tabs are what I have fed them. They are healthy and plump with great fins. I use to keep drift wood in tank but found it was not needed for them to survive. I have done all kinds of reading on plecs and know they are. All different. I have never had problems in twenty years of keeping them. Nice plecs.


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## crash77789 (Mar 28, 2010)

i have 2 demasoni a blue cobalt chichlid and am wondering if i a sunburst peacock slightly bigger than the demasoni and cobalt could live together..???


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## firenzena (Nov 29, 2009)

PiePuncher said:


> Have kept flash plecos for years with no wood. Hbh spirulina tabs are what I have fed them. They are healthy and plump with great fins. I use to keep drift wood in tank but found it was not needed for them to survive. I have done all kinds of reading on plecs and know they are. All different. I have never had problems in twenty years of keeping them. Nice plecs.


To Survive perhaps - but to keep them in optimum condition and to extend their life for as long as you can then I would challenge your view on the necessities of wood for that fish, when considering their whole intestinal system is based on that form of feeding and has been of that design for a lot longer than twenty years.
Not to mention the design and growth of their teeth.

No doubt that loricard's are a resilient group of fish. Their existence over millions of years is testimony to that, and individuals can 'survive' for many months in less than ideal circumstances. 
I accept that at the end of the day those are personal choices.


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## electyellowdude (Feb 18, 2010)

what is the first fish called in the pictures at the top of the 1st page?


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