# Ich



## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

Got my first case of Ich with some new fish in my 55. Heat is turned up and salt has been added (1 tbsp per 5 gallons). The heat is currently around 85*, I've been slowly raising it since last night. The tank is currently covered with two towels and there is no light on. Should I keep it covered? What about feeding and how often should I be changing the water?

Robb


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Do daily 25% water changes making sure to vacuum substrate. You also want the temp at least at 86. Anything above 86 keeps the ich from reproducing. Anything above 89.7 kills the ich as soon as it falls off the fish. If your fish can handle 89.7 or a bit higher I would go this route.

Also make sure to have a lotof surface agitation. Turn power heads upwards and drop water level so there is a drop off of water into the tank creating better oxygenation.

Remember...once the ich is gone from the fish does not mean it is not alive in the tank. You need to do this for around 10-14 days total or at least 4-5 days after ich is no longer visible on fish.

I would keep the tank in total darkness to help with stress. What I did with my last battle of ich was to slowly turn the lights on in the room and then the tank lights then wait a few minutes and feed them a bit...not too much but enough to help them gain strength to battle the ich. Then wait a few minutes or so and do at least 25% water change making sure to vacuum the substrate. The vacuuming of the substrate will pick up any ich that are hiding there trying to reproduce.

Add back in the predissolved salt and cover the tank or black out the room. In my case I just closed the blinds in the back room where my tanks are located and hung a thick comforter over the window making sure no light creeped in at all. I then turned out the lights and left the room in complete darkness. I would go in periodically with a flashlight to check the tank temperature to make sure it was steady.

This worked for me. I do wish you the best of luck and try not to get too stressed as I know it is hard. It was hard on me but I made it through and hopefully your fish will too. :thumb:


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

I have the temp at a steady 91* and everyone seems to be doing fine, all eating. It's day 3 of heat/salt.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

TrashmanNYC said:


> I have the temp at a steady 91* and everyone seems to be doing fine, all eating. It's day 3 of heat/salt.


Keep temp at 91 and as soon as the ich falls off the fish it should die shortly. Make sure to do your substrate vacuuming daily to get them as they fall off. I would do this for a minimum of 4 days after you last see the ich on your fish. I wish you the best. :thumb:


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

Thanks. It looks like its gone, or almost gone, from the fish. I'm gonna give it at least 7 days total, maybe 10.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Whether or not temps over 90F kills ich is highly debated. I've never tried it myself so I can't say personally if it works or not, though I've heard either way. Ich has a 3stage life cycle: free swimming, cystic, and parasitic; they are usually only visible when nearing the end of the parasitic stage, and are only vulnerable to treatment when free swimming, either before or after the cystic stage. Even if the ich seems to be dying, I'd keep the temp and salt up until you've not seen a single ich parasite for at least 10 days. Covering the tank helps as it reduces stress, and I'd keep them well fed, but dont overdo it. And as mentioned, do daily or bi-daily water changes with heavy gravel vacs; that should remove a lot of the developing cysts.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I don't believe there is any debate at all actually heh. Its just wether the particular fish you are handling are able to cope with that heat.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> I don't believe there is any debate at all actually heh. Its just wether the particular fish you are handling are able to cope with that heat.


This is correct. When researching it a couple months ago(I went through a bout of ich) I found several places where biologists and other scientists claimed that 89.7 would kill once it fell of the fish without salt or any other medication. I don't remember exactly how long it took to kill it but it was fairly quick if I remember correctly. They said wait 4 days minimum until last visible traces of ich are gone.

Just passing on what I read. It worked for me.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

BelieveInBlue said:


> Whether or not temps over 90F kills ich is highly debated. I've never tried it myself so I can't say personally if it works or not, though I've heard either way. Ich has a 3stage life cycle: free swimming, cystic, and parasitic; they are usually only visible when nearing the end of the parasitic stage, and are only vulnerable to treatment when free swimming, either before or after the cystic stage. Even if the ich seems to be dying, I'd keep the temp and salt up until you've not seen a single ich parasite for at least 10 days. Covering the tank helps as it reduces stress, and I'd keep them well fed, but dont overdo it. And as mentioned, do daily or bi-daily water changes with heavy gravel vacs; that should remove a lot of the developing cysts.


I agree....I think keeping the tank as dark as possible also helps a lot. It reduces stress and allows their immune systems to fight off the ich and other secondary infections.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> I don't believe there is any debate at all actually heh. Its just wether the particular fish you are handling are able to cope with that heat.


Well the internet seems to confirm this, but oddly enough I had the temperature at 90F for almost 2 weeks when my blue rams caught ich, and the parasites didnt disappear completely; there were less and less every day, but there would always be some. it wasn't until I added a UV sterilizer that they completely disappeared. I may have just been unlucky though, who knows.

In any case, keep the temperature as high as the fish can handle safely for a couple weeks, and you should be good to go.

Edit: make sure the tank is well oxygenated though, at high temps, there tends to be less oxygen in the water, so if the fish are gasping at the surface, you should probably add an airstone.


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

BelieveInBlue said:


> Nodalizer said:
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I put in a bubble wand and there's lots of surface agitation from the filters.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

TrashmanNYC said:


> BelieveInBlue said:
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Good...you need quite a bit. As long as your fish are not gasping for air you are probably ok. I really do wish you the best of luck!


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

13razorbackfan said:


> TrashmanNYC said:
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Thanks. They all look fine. Swimming around and eating well.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

TrashmanNYC said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
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Good deal. How bout the ich...is it still visible on any of the fish?


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

13razorbackfan said:


> TrashmanNYC said:
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It's gone from the original fish that had it, but now my Acei have it.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Keep doing the daily substrate/gravel vacuuming to get those little buggers as they fall off and try to reproduce. It will get better. How are your acei acting? If they even look the slightest bit stressed I would make sure the tank is as dark as possible to help with stress.


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

Turn for the worse. My two adult Acei looked really bad tonight. Listless, clamped fins, and one had white looking patches (looked like white scales) on her. I moved them to a hospital tank and dosed with clout.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Sorry to hear that. I hope they get better.


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

They look a lot better than last night. Unclamped fins, swimming straight. And they ate a little bit as well.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

TrashmanNYC said:


> They look a lot better than last night. Unclamped fins, swimming straight. And they ate a little bit as well.


Thats GREAT! Are you still water changes and everything you can to keep them calm?


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

I have them separate in a different tank being treated with Clout. No lights except for a few minutes to eat.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

TrashmanNYC said:


> I have them separate in a different tank being treated with Clout. No lights except for a few minutes to eat.


Ok...less stress the better. Man...I sure hope they get better.


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

Came home from work and now my juvie Acei in the original main tank are doing bad. It looks like their skin is coming off and one of them has a bulging eye. I think I'm gonna just slowly lower the heat, do a water change, and dose the tank with Clout.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

TrashmanNYC said:


> Came home from work and now my juvie Acei in the original main tank are doing bad. It looks like their skin is coming off and one of them has a bulging eye. I think I'm gonna just slowly lower the heat, do a water change, and dose the tank with Clout.


Sounds like a plan.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Update? How are they doing?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I probally would not have used clout. I know some like it but yeah.

The skin comming off during an ich outbreak are due to the scratching the fish is doing, the damage seems to indicate you have some coarse rocks in your tank somewhere that really should be removed, even just for now.

As for the Ich, I would say the Acei had ich all along, its not visible at first, it just hasn;t fallen off yet to die to the excess heat. Are you doing lots of water changes making sure to vacum the substrate as much as possible?

I would maybe add some salt in there or do a salt bath to rid ich and promote some healing on those fishies.


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

The tank they were originally in only has rounded river rocks. I had them in a bare bottom hospital tank and ended up losing all of the Acei (3 juvies, 2 adults). Two other fish in the hosp tank are okay so far.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I see this a lot, Acei just don;t seem to fair well with ich at all. Maybe they like to flash a lot more, no idea.


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## hero782 (Sep 28, 2011)

I just finish curing my tank of ich, used the heat and salt method, and I lost all my acels also. All together I lost 5 acels and 3 synos multi


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

After a bit of forum surfing on the subject I have found 90% of people with acei in there tank found the acei was the most effected and in most cases the only effected. All the ones that successfully cured them used the normal salt and heat method.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> After a bit of forum surfing on the subject I have found 90% of people with acei in there tank found the acei was the most effected and in most cases the only effected. All the ones that successfully cured them used the normal salt and heat method.


While doing research I have come across many who think ich is always in the tank versus those who say ich is only present after being introduced through new fish, water, plants, etc...

What have you found?

I like to ask around to see if people who have ich have recently introduced things from other tanks namely pet stores including but not limited to new fish, plants, rocks, etc....

I would like to think that is the only way it is introduced and not constantly around but only attaching to stressed or sick fish.


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## hero782 (Sep 28, 2011)

I got ich in my tank by introducing a Pleco without quarantine it first, dumb mistake.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

After going through my last bout, after introducing a new fish, I am constantly checking for little white specks. Even when I see a little bit of a scrape my heart almost jumps out of my chest.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Thing with ich is it can go unnoticed for long periods of time (dorment), so a lot of people do not make the connection between new fish and the ich. These would be the people who think its in the tank all the time.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> Thing with ich is it can go unnoticed for long periods of time (dorment), so a lot of people do not make the connection between new fish and the ich. These would be the people who think its in the tank all the time.


How long do you think it can go dormant? I have seen all kinds of answers.


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## TrashmanNYC (Dec 10, 2007)

It started on some new fish that were shipped to me.


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

13razorbackfan said:


> While doing research I have come across many who think ich is always in the tank versus those who say ich is only present after being introduced through new fish, water, plants, etc...


freshwater Ich is a well studied topic and no, it has been proven without a shadow of a doubt that an aquarium and fish can be made 100% Ich free. It has also been proven that Ich do not have a dormant stage...

What can happen is that Ich can persist as a very low level infection in an aquarium setting. The tank appears to be Ich free though it is not. Sudden stress can trigger a (seemingly) new Ich outbreak when it is actually just the Ich parasite gaining an upperhand. This can be commonly seen in tanks where the fish get sick with some illness and what the aquarist sees and treats is the reoccurance of visible Ich parasites.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Number6 said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
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> > While doing research I have come across many who think ich is always in the tank versus those who say ich is only present after being introduced through new fish, water, plants, etc...
> ...


This was the answer I was looking for. Thanks


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