# Black Calvus "Bent Out of Shape"



## crisone (Jan 31, 2010)

Hello all,

I need some assistance on what to do with my Calvus. Last week, I added a Male Black Calvus, about 4-4.5 in., and off the bat, my Male White Calvus at the same size started to punk him as he acclimated, and which caused him to stay at the top of my tank hiding behind my spray bar. He's "bent out of shape", and for a couple days, he was laying on the gravel on his side, but started to swim a little here and there, and now stays near the top. Some signs show good since he eats a little. I also notice that his scales are starting to"flake". On Sunday, I made a diy divider to separate all from my beat Calvus, so now, what to do???

My tank is a 55g and stocked with:

- White Calvus (paired)
- Yellow Calvus (paired)
- Black Calvus, other than the beat-up one, I have another Male a tad smaller.
- Gold Comps (paired)
- 2 Plecos

I started the tank in late March and cycled it with 2 Pacus until mid to late May. I started with my Calvus/Comps at the end of May.

My temp as of now is around 82f, and my parameters read as:

- Ammonia: .25
- Nitrite: 0
- Nitrate: 160
- Ph: 7.8

With the listed fish above, the newest would be the Black Calvus (beat-up male for about a week & my healthier male for about 2-1/2 weeks), I just started them on frozen krill since Sunday, and I also feed them "New Life Spectrum" pellets. I started doing water changes every week and a half to 2 weeks, but started doing them weekly for about a month now. To neutralize the chemicals in my tap, I use AmQuel Plus.

Here's a couple pics of my Calvus and the divided area if it matters:


















So, any help would be highly appreciated, if I'm forgetting any info, please let me know.

Thanks,

Cris.


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know how to help your injured Calvus. But there are a couple of other issues that I can address.

First of all, Nitrate at 160ppm is bad. At the very least it should be under 40ppm, and a lot of people consider less than 20 ppm to be a more reasonable level. You need to start doing water changes to bring it down. Chances are that the high Nitrates have lowered the KH and PH of the water. So, I would do small daily water changes (say 20% or so) to prevent shocking the fish with rapid changes in the water parameters. Continue to do this until the Nitrates are at a more reasonable level.

Next, having ammonia at .25 might indicate that your tank isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t fully cycled, or it could be that your tap water is treated with chloramines if you tested right after a water change. Test the tap water for ammonia to find out which it is. If it tests positive, then your tap is probably treated with chloramines Ã¢â‚¬â€œ be sure to use a dechlorinator that specifically treats for them. If it tests negative, then it seems that your tank isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t completely cycled. In this case, keep up with the water changes until you get a zero reading for the ammonia and use a dechlor product that neutralizes it.

As far as mixing different species of Calvus and Comps together, they will cross breed. Just be sure you donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t pass on any of their offspring. People frown on highbred Tangs.

Last, neither Calvus nor Comps are likely to tolerate extra males in the tank. Once the breeding starts, the dominant male is going to attack any other males that are around. This is how they behave. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s not likely that you will find a way around it. At this point, you can get rid of the extra males, get more tanks, or pack them in like is done with Mbuna to spread the aggression around.


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## crisone (Jan 31, 2010)

Thank you much...I'm in the process of taking my Comps out, out of 6, 2 are left in my tank now. I'll get on the daily water changes and water testing.

Cris.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

As jrf pointed out, there are two issues here: water quality and aggression...

Are you sure that you read nitrates at 160? How big are your water changes? It seems unlikely that your low stocking and frequent water changes would result in such high nitrates. Have you tested your tap water for nitrates and ammonia? What are you using for filtration? How much do you feed?

Your injured calvus may recover with isolation and rest, but chances are his internal injuries are too severe. It is not likely that you'll be able to keep more than 1 male in this tank for the long term.


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## crisone (Jan 31, 2010)

^ I'm using an Eheim 2215 and I feed 2-3 times a day (estimated: 7a.m., 4 p.m., 11 p.m.). I'm I feeding too much??? And testing tap vs. tank as we speak since I did a 20-25% wc yesterday.

Be right back with parameters if there's a change.

Thanks,

Cris.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

You could be feeding too much. Once a day is more than sufficient for adult fish, depending on how much food you add. I feed my show tanks sporadically- skipping days, or sometimes feeding twice in a day.

Your ammonia issue (there should never be measurable ammonia) is likely caused by over feeding and under-filtering. The Eheim 2215 maximum output is 164 gallons per hour? That's not enough. I recommend that Tang tanks cycle their volume through the filter at least 5, if not 10 times an hour. Right now, I would guess that your ammonia build up is because you don't have enough bacteria to process the fish waste from feeding too much. Look for a HOB filter rated for at least 100 gph to add to your set up. The HOB will increase surface agitation, provide media for bacteria to grow on, and will be a good back up in case something goes wrong with the primary filter.

Also, limit feedings to no more than twice a day, and only as much as the fish can consume in 1 minute.

With better water quality, you're going to see a lot brighter colors and interesting behavior from your fish. :thumb:


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## crisone (Jan 31, 2010)

^ Thank you for the info, much appreciated.

I just checked my tank vs. tap, the tank is still the same, and my tap's ammonia is .50, and nitrate is 5.0.

So, I'll work off your info to get my water correct.

Any recommended HOB Filter to get???

Cris.


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

With .5 ammonia in the tap, it looks like SF water is treated with chloramines. If you search the Internet for SFÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s water quality report, you can find out for certain. That being the case, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s expected that you will get a positive ammonia reading right after a water change. However, if you have enough bio filtration, you should get 0 ammonia on your tests 12-24 hours after a WC. Regardless, you do need to add more filtration as Triscut noted.

And you do still need to get those Nitrates down if the 160ppm is accurate. Are you using strips or test tube tests? Go with the test tube kits if youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re not already - they seem to be more accurate.

I saw your other thread about the HOBs. I use EmperorÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s. They do move quite a bit of water, but there seems to be to much bypass on them in my opinion. I think youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll do alright with any of the popular HOBs that are out there. That is if you can find one that will fit the lip on that acrylic tank.


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## crisone (Jan 31, 2010)

^ Thanks...yeah, I'm using the API test tube kit, and I'm researching an HOB for a fit for my tank.

Cris.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

I pick up a lot of used equipment, and I always pack the HOBs with my own media. That said, I bought my first AquaClear HOB and I don't think I'll ever buy a canister again. :thumb: Check out the Reviews section to see what other folks like.

With ammonia in your tap water, it's important to use enough Amquel. Dose the whole tank for every water change...


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## crisone (Jan 31, 2010)

I'm looking into an Aquaclear 70, but gotta see if it can fit my tank first, and I use AmQuel + every wc....


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## crisone (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks again to all for the info, unfortunately, my Calvus died.

So on with the parameters......

Cris.


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

Sorry to hear it. He did look like he was in bad shape though.


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## crisone (Jan 31, 2010)

Yeah, he was pretty bad, any who, I just installed an Aquaclear HOB, and its been running for about 20 min now, so hopefully all goes good from now and on....


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## crisone (Jan 31, 2010)

Just reading this thread over, and I realized I said I have an eheim 2215, I actually have a 2217. I added an AC70 a couple days ago and bought a new heater as well, now my water is more clear and my temp is at a consistent 80.1 degrees.

For the past 2 days, I limited my feedings to 1-2 times a day, no water change yet, but I tested my Ammonia and Nirates yesterday, and my ammonia is still at .25, and my nitrates are still high at 160, but I see a tad difference in test color.

Since I added the HOB, should I do the daily 20% water changes to lower parameters, or wait for bacteria to build on my HOB and if so, how long???

Thanks.

Cris.


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## John27 (Jun 6, 2010)

Cris,

At this point you need to address the issue of the nitrates, do the water changes. It might reduce the time it will take for your bacteria to populate in the AC70 slightly, but if your getting nitrates it's "mostly" cycled, and with nitrates that high I would assume it IS cycled, as those API test kits get older sometimes they get less accurate, does it turn green right away? Anymore mine always reads .25 but it reads it instantly, my new test kit reads 0.

-John


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## crisone (Jan 31, 2010)

^ Late reply on my part, but thanks John.....I've been doing 20-30% daily water changes this week (missed 1 day though), and checked my ammonia and nitrates late last night several hours after a wc, and it basically read the same, ammonia .25, nitrates 140. I'm getting frustrated with these parameters, but at the same time, my fish seem happy. I'll get a new test kit to rule out my old kit to see if that's the case, hopefully.

I'm using an API Master Kit, any other brand/type of test kit recommended???

Thanks.

Cris.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

API is a very good kit. What are the nitrates out of your tap? If you change 50% of the water and still get 140ppm then it seems you would have to have nitrates in your tap water or the nitrates are off the top of the chart. My API kit has 160 as the maximum reading, is yours the same?

Could the nitrates be coming from substrate or filters? Have all been vacuumed/rinsed with tank water?


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## crisone (Jan 31, 2010)

^ Oops, I meant 160ppm.....I haven't checked the nitrates in my tap, but will to see if that's the case. I did a 50% water change once before vacuuming the substrate, and honestly, I wouldn't know where the high nitrates are coming from, I assume from feeding, which I cut down to 1-2 times a day as told. Maybe another 50% with vacuuming the substrate again??? And I was told that my substrate is "deeper" than usual, it's estimated at 3-4 inches deep, would this make a difference in parameters if I take some out???

Thanks,

Cris.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If you did all of this, then when you remove 50% of your water, you are removing 50% of your nitrates. 
1-vacuum substrate through to the bottom until no debris comes out (careful not to overdo because beneficial bacteria live in the substrate)
2-clean the filters by swishing with tank water, and squeezing out sponges in tank water too until water runs clear

If the measurement remains 160ppm then it was 320ppm or over before. Or you have nitrates in your tap water, so every time you refill you are adding back some nitrates. Or both.

My niece has this same problem (nitrates were off the chart and tap has nitrates). Now she does a 90% change weekly to barely keep a safe level.

Once your substrate is clean, it will be easier to maintain if you take out 2" so 1" remains. But if you remove it while it is dirty you will stir up the debris and things will get worse.


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

In addition to DJ's advice, make sure youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re shaking the heck out of bottle #2 of the Nitrate test. I find I get bad readings if I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t - although, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s typically a false low reading.


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