# Priority shipping ?



## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

As I set here at home waiting for a fish shipment to arrive, a few questions have come to mind. Background is simple. I bought the fish on the net, talked to seller who says he ships Priority all the time and has good luck with it so agreed to go that way. Now I'm thinking it was a mistake. Reading through the USPS info it reads as if there is no difference other than convenience for the shipper and money for USPS. Usually two-three days delivery doesn't really sound like much advantage for me. Usually means maybe yes, maybe no, to me. Wonder what other folks think about shipping and Priority mail. Is there any special advantage? I've got time to think as I sit here going into the fourth day and wait for a box of dead fish.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

always overnight fish, two day at the most when the weather is warm, that's just my opinion, i hope he has an arrive live guarantee


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Many say Priority if fine, and they do it all the time, but none that I've ever seen offer live arrival guarantee when shipping Priority, so something doesn't add up. Many have asked me to ship Priority because it's cheap, but I always refuse. Even if they survive, it's just not the way to get them off to a good start in your tank. Test the bag water for ammonia when you get them and you'll see what I mean.

I'd agree with cjacob316's guidelines. My first choice is same day air (when buying from a breeder) and it's often cheaper than the next day services.

So, to answer your question, the only advantage is it's cheaper. No advantage to the fish, and buyer usually assumes all risk.

If it's truly been four days, then I'd not hold out much hope for a live arrival. Not impossible, but it's really pushing it.


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## DCguy (Mar 9, 2008)

I ship Priority a lot but only when the weather is right, not too hot or cold. I only ship dwarf cichlids and use breather bags in flat rate priority boxes that I insulate with Styrofoam. I have had good success with this and do guarantee live delivery as long as I approve the shipping dates. Where I live, express mail is three days and priority is the same. My only choices for overnight are UPS and FedEx. Using either of them 2 pairs of fish in a small box costs about $90 - $100. I can ship the same via Priority for $20. For most of the people I ship to it is an easy choice.

DC


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that I don't have a shipping problem but a seller problem. A number of reasons that I should not discuss until I find for sure the fish are not arriving. I should know better. I've been had before. Just once in a while I slip up and think people might be honest!!! Will spill my guts on this if a box doesn't show shortly. The only things I have lost in the mail were money coming to me. Funny how the USPS only screws up the incoming and never the outgoing money, if you believe that story. :roll:


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that I don't have a shipping problem but a seller problem.


Always get a tracking number. 

UPS, Fedex, and USPS all rate by distance. If the buyer and seller are relatively close, shipping costs can be very, very reasonable. They all have rate info on their web sites. I'd encourage buyers to be famililar with the different services and rates. Knowledge is power, they say. 



> Funny how the USPS only screws up the incoming and never the outgoing money, if you believe that story.


Oh, they can manage to mess up a lot of things, you'd be surprised. Nightmarish to deal with if you have a problem too. And good luck getting you money back on an Express package that doesn't meet delivery times. They're, how do I say, less than honest or ethical IME. I quit using them and go with Fedex or UPS now.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I've got to be honest with you folks and admit I broke my own common sense rules. Sounded right, took a chance. I've now decided there really was no good way this deal was going to go right. I also am putting Gregory and Linda Clum Lancaster, Ohio on my list. I have lost all hope of seeing anything from this deal. Just be advised he's still doing business on Aquabid.

As a side point, I did rental and property business for thirty years and in all that time I had quite a number of people tell me the payments were "lost in the mail". Always money owed to me. Never have I had my payments to other places lost. I think this excuse shows a real lack of imagination. At least they could say the dog ate it. :roll:


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

Sorry to hear things didn't work out for you. I'm sure there are many reputable and honest people on Aquabid, but I've been leery to try it out for this very reason.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

If the deal was done through aquabid, you can file a complaint with Aquabid.



> I'm sure there are many reputable and honest people on Aquabid, but I've been leery to try it out for this very reason.


I sell on Aquabid, and I think I'm honest.  I know of others here as well, but you do have to be careful. Just check the feedback.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

How is feedback generated on Aquabid? I've been going back (while kicking myself) to see where I could have protected myself better. Is having four hundred good feed back worth nothing? I'm theoretically ahead of myself to think I've been scammed but there is little to say I've not been. He had one negative but it did not give any real info as to what the complaint might have been . Something like "What can I say. No comment" I did check on a number of things like feedback before doing the deal but with only one negative that told nothing, I figured a fluke was the cause. Perfect IS hard. Maybe the complaint just didn't know what he had ordered. I questioned a number of things like running up the address on Google maps and when I saw it was a trailer park, I questioned how he was selling one group of cichlids when most of his work was betta and guppy. He said he had eighty tanks and a buddy he worked with and it just varied what they had come up. I've raised multiple tanks of fry and that made sense. One map showed it to be in the street near what appears to be a strip shopping center. Maybe like where a guy might have a bunch of fish? Called to ask several local shops if they knew of the guy. Reasonably small town (10,000), things often work that way. Found nobody that knew him but was not sure that meant anything. Sometimes I was only talking to the kid at the desk.

I think maybe Prov356 has it right in his bottom line.

"And it's still not enough"

What more could I do. I really wanted those fish. :drooling:


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## jrf (Nov 10, 2009)

prov356 said:


> I sell on Aquabid...


Now I'm really scared to try it out....Just kidding obviously 

Seriusly though, I'm an I.T. guy and I've bought tons of used networking equiment off of ebay and never really had a bad experience. No one ever tried to outright scam me.

I'm sure at some point I'll find something irresistable on Aquabid and roll the dice. I suppose there's just more of a percieved risk since I've never used it before. Not to mention, shipping a live animal is a bit more involved than shipping a router and you have to have a bit more faith that the guy on the other end knows what he is doing.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> How is feedback generated on Aquabid? I've been going back (while kicking myself) to see where I could have protected myself better. Is having four hundred good feed back worth nothing?


He had a feedback rating of 400? And only one negative? One negative is a fluke. You can't control that. I have one from a real bad experience of a customer. It was purely retaliatory because I didn't give him a stellar review. It happens. I think sometimes people give praise even when it's not warranted just so they get the same. I've learned and now if I have nothing good to say, I say nothing. You have to watch the buyers too. They scam as well. I've run into a few. More scammer buyers than sellers actually.

What are the details of the transaction, if you don't mind my asking. Did he say he sent, but you never received? Even with Priority mail there should have been a tracking number.


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## MCKP (Aug 17, 2009)

Have you contacted the seller and made sure he was aware that nothing has arrived??


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Final chapter. The box of dead fish arrived today. I quess if another lesson of this sort only costs me $50, I'm lucky. Ohter lessons have cost me more. What I have been thinking is not correct. The seller did ship the fish, postmarked Monday 12-14. The Priority shipping in 2-3 days turned 6 days instead. Never buy from someone who does not do Paypal, etc. Never take a sellers advise on shipping. And never want something bad enough to take a chance.


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## Dj823cichild (Mar 30, 2009)

I'm sorry but this is my opinion on USPS. They will work with you no matter what. And they have the cheapest and sensible rates possible. Fedex and UPS are the worst they always misdeliver packages and never have guarantees on anything. The post office only has guarantees on Express mail and if it doesn't arrive you will get your money back both on time and the day. Priority mail is not guaranteed 2 to 3 days that's just the suggested time frame. But if you put delivery confirmation or tracking you can't go wrong. I use USPS every time I sell something on ebay and I have had nothing but success! You can also blame the shipper cause I've ran into the fact they say they will ship out a package on a date and do it 3 days later like I'm sure your shipper did PfunMo. I'm very sorry for your experience and loss.


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## frozennorth (Dec 16, 2008)

Sorry about your fish.  I think part of the problem may be the holiday season. A lot more packages than usual to process which might explain the delay.


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

Bummer, 
No to make any excuses, or gloss over anyoneâ€™s responsibilities.
But blasts at the USPS seem too easy, and are not an answer.
I spent a year working as a rural carrier and it was a real eye opener.
I used to believe postal workers were a passel of ex hippies. Over paid public leaches that did a marginal job at best.
I mean, how hard can a job be, that has the ability to read as itâ€™s main criteria.
You would be surprised at the level of care and professionalism that goes on behind the doors of any post office. 
Bottom line is shipper responsibility.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Sorry about your fish. I just have to ask, what were they? Priority shipping around the holidays is probably what did the deal in. I had an express mail package get delayed last year, so can imagine how 'bumped back' Priority gets.



> The post office only has guarantees on Express mail and if it doesn't arrive you will get your money back both on time and the day.


Not where I live, they don't. Tried it twice. They use every trick they can come up with to *not *give money back. If that doesn't work they run you through an endless line of 'oh, you have to call this number'. :x :x Or, like one manager did to me, they just get snippy, and flat out refuse to even talk to you. I'm sure there are good ones, but they're not all gems, and don't all deserve praise. I did have success with them for a while, but first time things don't go right, forget it, and write it off. It's easier than trying to deal with them. I prefer to just not deal with them at all now.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

There were so many things wrong with this deal from the start that I should have known better. To set the stage for my blunder, I need to give some background. I have a new tank, it was down to almost cycled and I put four tetras in to get them out of the way and to get the cycle completed (living or dead type thing). I had been searching for a fish new to me with certain criteria. Wanted good color, did not like red, wanted it to have a brain, had to stay small enough to work multiple pairs in seventy gallon (I hope), had to be pretty low on aggression. With that in mind, I had found very few meeting what I thought fit. Settled on wanting rainbow cichlids, herotilapia multispinosa. Missed the first try at Aquabid due to the 24-48 hour delay before registering is complete. Had not run into that before. Found the second group of fish but wanted to explore totally as there seemed to be trouble signs. First the dealer takes only money orders. Should have stopped there. Did what I thought was a deep search for trouble. 
Found their name and did some calling around Lancaster, Ohio. It did look like a strange place to find a fish breeder but we do all hang in some odd places, don't we? Talked to some fish shops and found nobody knowing the name. Talked to local Lancaster law and found no info. Still nervous but turning up nothing bad or real information to put me off. The seller had in the ad that they shipped Priority and had good luck with it. Not truly in the Christmas spirit as I have just moved and can't feel like Christmas if I have to mow grass, I totally forgot the Christmas mailing rush. 
Decided to go with the sellers experience as I had never bought through the net. I thought one of us must know what we were doing. So you see, it was my mistake to start the deal with this much doubt. It was his mistake to have that much confidence. And the USPS dropped the hammer on us both.

I could smell the fish when I picked the box off the porch. They were well packaged with heat and you would not think the smell would come through but it did. The mailman had always rung the bell on Priority before. Possible he didn't want to be there to hand it to me?

Anyway, I'm a big boy now and I will live over it. But, ****, now I have to find some fish all over again. It's going to be even harder now though as I have added another layer to the criteria. They have to be close enough to drive over and pick them up. :roll:


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## bertolli (Aug 18, 2009)

After reading through all of this an witnessing the story play by play I can only say sorry I feel for you, I hate looking at dead fish unless I'm eating them.
Your other option if your willing to shell out the extra money is to pay for overnight shipping. I know livefishdirect maybe not anymore but before was offering 34$ on overnight boxes which is a pretty good deal. I have ordered off of aquabid twice and both times I paid 15$ for priority shipping and all my fish came in good shape within three days.
I agree with you when you say that this is a lesson learned, best way to look at bad situations.
Good luck finding more fish and on the bright side at least your tank will definitely be fully cycled.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I think the only thing I'd pin on the seller is his error in judgement shipping Priority over the holidays. I don't see anything unethical or dishonest in his behavior. Not accepting Paypal isn't a red flag. He's just avoiding the 3% cut that Paypal takes. Is that good business? I don't think so, but it's not a sign he's pulling anything. It's the same with businesses that don't accept credit cards. Few and far between, but there are still some out there. They're just avoiding the % that the credit card company takes. He should build this into his price and take Paypal, but that's his business. Some will even specify that if paying with Paypal, add 3%.

If I were you, I'd at least contact him and let him know what happened, if you haven't already. Maybe at least it'll make him realize that this was a bad idea and it'll help the next guy. Now if this isn't the first time he's seen this and is still shipping Priority over the holidays, then he's crossed a line, at least in my mind. But no way to really know that.

I wouldn't cut yourself off from having fish shipped because of this. Just pay for the higher service level, and avoid the holidays or extreme weather. Consider both the weather where you are and the shipping point. I've shipped in the winter without hesitation to warmer locations knowing the box would be on a plane by evening and not subject to weather conditions where I am for very long.


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## kmuda (Nov 27, 2009)

Absolutely, I've had very good luck with receiving fish shipped overnight air (Fedex). They are usually healthier than fish you pick up at an LFS, having not been subjected to truck, road, warehouse, truck, road warehouse, truck, road, store.......

Being that in my location the selection of fish is very limited, I have little choice but to order fish. But having done so, it's actually my preference.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> They are usually healthier than fish you pick up at an LFS, having not been subjected to truck, road, warehouse, truck, road warehouse, truck, road, store.......


That's a good point. I can get very good quality fish from professional breeders. My fist choice is always the ones who breed and raise them themselves. I've had both very good and also moderate results going with stores that also sell online. There are some good breeders with store fronts though. You just have to check them out, and here in the reviews section is a good place to start.

Everything I have right now in the way of Tanganyikans has been shipped to me, either same or next day. There was one species where the quality was questionable and only four of the six survived the first few weeks. Another species I received from a hobbyist, one of the six was a runt (but wasn't obvious right away). Very happy with everything else.

So, I also have taken chances when going for somethng not found on breeder's lists. It's a risk, but I don't know that I'd do it again. I'd rather go with something more common and know the quality. Although I recently bought some fish out of a hotel room at OCA and that's worked out well. No absolutes, I guess.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I did not mean that not taking Paypal was unethical or anything of that sort. In fact it turns out the seller did everything I would expect. The Paypal issue is something that made me pause and look long and hard as it removed any protection for me as buyer. It also seemed to indicate a lower level of operation as 3 percent is not really much in the overall price. While setting here feeling scammed the money order was one of the big things I regretted. With a credit card there is some level of protection. Of course this transfers some of the responsibility to the seller. What one gains, the other loses. 
As far as a good time to ship fish goes, there has to be a different thinking. In Ohio and north, I'm sure fish die due to cold. I'm a Missouri guy and know about cold. Here in Texas, I'm still trying to figure it out. More than fifty days of 100 plus temps this summer makes me more aware that fish die from heat as well as cold. If I order fish from Columbus, where do they go? Chicago, Nashville, Dallas,and then Austin? Which is more dangerous, leaving Columbus at a possible 15 degrees or setting in a truck in Texas with the windows down because it is too hot? It's just too much guessing for me at the moment. The advantage of buying local (if I can) is that the fish can be seen alive and well. Also a six dollar fish costs six dollars instead of fifty six. I quess I have this in mind. I trust myself but it will be a while before I trust my luck again. :thumb:


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