# Festivum in the 75.....?



## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Well you guys know my stock by now, but just to reiterate:

8" Rottie
3x Bolivians (it _will_ be 1m 2f out of the current 7) 
2x _L. dorsigera_

75 gallon.

Seeing as the dwarf pike idea is going nowhere after many months of waiting (actually close to a year or more since I first tried to get them), I've decided to move on for now. What are your opinions on throwing a Festivum into the mix?

Any other thoughts on an addition other than a festivum, Keyholes I've done and have no further interest in keeping at this point (at least in this community setting). Dwarf pikes are out as they're seemingly impossible to get - I can get the monsters no prob, but try getting something appropriate for the majority tank size :roll:.










Either way I'm going to replace the dithers that have been munched, see if I can't find something Rottie proof - Harlequins and Rummynose are now off the list, as are Neons and Penguin tetras :lol:.

That and I want a nice swarm of _Corydoras_, so I intend on adding to the trio of _C. arcuatus _I have now with another 6 individuals - I love Cory swarms .

Just want another mid size Cichlid to complete the scene, depending on what I can get away with. I have a spare 45 running so if it doesn't work out I can always remove the added fish with no worries.

:thumb:


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## madzarembski (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Blairo

I've never kept Severum, so its hard for me to judge how they would get a long with a similar sized fish like a Mesonouta sp. Even when breeding mine were pretty mild toward other fish (for a cichlid). I would worry about him/her getting bullied. Plus, I think they enjoy the company of others of theirspecies when not breeding. I think they are schooling cichlid at heart. What about a Port? Though they may bully your Laetacara....

madzarembski


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts bud.

Hmm, a difficult one this, I could always try a trio although I really think that would push the tanks stocking, if needs be I can remove the dwarf cichlids from the mix so that it would be the Rottie and a trio of Festivums.

I'm not really worried about the Rottie giving the Mesonauta any grief to be honest, he's so docile and tame with everything I've ever kept with him - Bolivians, Laetacara, Keyholes, Pelvicachromis etc. Even tolerating them when they confront and attack him during spawning - he would rather swim off for peace and quiet than fight back. Of course it may be different with a larger Cichlid.

Port - Cichlasoma portalegrense? I quite like them but don't know if they'll be an easy find - the LFS goes for "easy sell" fish (ie obvious colours, rather than subtlety) and since it changed hands it has been much harder for me to get exactly what I want from the importers.... Hmmm.

:thumb:


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

heres a list of fish i could look into:

Bujurquina vittata
Krobia spp (any species)
Aequidens patricki
Mesonauta festivus (the festivum)
Dicrossus filamentosus (Checkerboard cichlid, if you feel it wont be eaten)
Crenicara punctulatum (i have never seen them for sale... but i have to mention them, beautiful fish)
Geophagus (if you can find any that live well in singles)

of course not all these are mid sized... but there were some i figured id mention anyway!


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## straitjacketstar (Mar 8, 2004)

Having kept M. festivus for the breif time I did I'd be worried about keeping them with conspecifics. I kept mine with rams (ramirezi & altispinosus) as well as L. dorsigera and they hardly payed any attention to them. It was until they reached about 3-4" that they began to obliterate one another. It was so bad that my last two whittled themselves down to one in a 6' tank. I wouldn't give a second thought to housing them with angels. Might consider keeping them with sevs in a large enough tank.
Besides that they also have a tooth for greenery. :?


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Hmm, so if I did Festivum I might try a single specimen as I can't keep a large enough group to spread conspecific aggression. I'm not too bothered with keeping lone specimens - my tank is so mellow anything I've kept that normally likes groups seems to get on just as well schooling with my other species. It's very entertaining.

I'm not too worried about greenery with the rate my hygro grows - not only that but my Rottie used to be a green eating machine until I trained him, I'm sure I could train a festivum too.

Geo's are a thought and I have kept G altifrons with my Bolivians and a Sev before (my gold sev which I lost due to jumping whilst I was away ) with great success, in fact I would really like a Geo, but I've had this mindset for a while now that when I do Geo's I want to tackle it full on - ie a large tank chock full of them, rather than a mixed setting.

Hmmm. I might try the Festivum, I've always got options, if that doesn't work out I'll try a smaller Geo and see where it goes.


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## madzarembski (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Straitjacketstar.

Your experience with your Festivum is 180 degrees from mine. I did not keep them in a planted aquarium so I can not speak to their interest in greenery. Mine wer exceedingly gentle. When I turned mine over to my mother years back she kept the pair in a 55 with a pair of those hybrid paarot cichlids. Ou know the ones that chubby, can barely swim monstrosities. We they wer bullied buy them even though they were the larger. Blairo I still think, you would see their more natural experience in a small group....


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

:lol:

How many would you put in a 75 considering there is already an 8" Cichlid (accounting for the Rotkeils incredibly mellow and tolerant demeanour). I know you cannot say how he will accept them, don't worry about that I'll take that chance, as I said - I have immediate back-up options, so don't feel you'd have given me "bad" advice if it doesn't work, I'll let you know but I promise I won't hold a grudge..... :lol:. I just want idea's for numbers - a trio?

I think i'm going to try it (one, or _a_ number) and if it works, cool, if it doesn't then no problem either - the backup option is only 12ft away .


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## conor (May 19, 2007)

Yes it's worth a try especially with a back-up plan at hand. Not sure if a full size festivum would look a bit 'too much' in your tank along with the sev though.

Re dithers, good-sized bleeding hearts would be an option. If you don't mind mixing continents, then rainbow fish should also be 'sev proof'.

Have you thought of blue acara?


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## madzarembski (Jul 3, 2008)

I would think a trio of Mesaunata would be fine. They kinda "act small" in my opinion. I don't remember them being sloppy eaters or creating excessively large voulumes of waste. Maybe get all females to hold down any spawning activity if your not interested in that behavior....

madzarembski


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

And three is what I got!










Very cool fish, very mellow. I like these guys a lot, so far they've sat right next to every other fish in the tank, eaten algae from the driftwood next to the Laetacara and even "sat" calmly in the centre of a Bolivian dispute :lol:. zoned. They certainly love the NLS and seem quite happy slowly cruising around the tank in their trio.

:thumb:


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Well they're still all getting on, so we'll see where this goes!

:thumb:


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

It will be interesting as they grow to try and figure out which species they are. I remember seeing some back in a petco way back in the late 90's whose sides looked like green tinfoil ... always regreted not buying them.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

dwarfpike said:


> It will be interesting as they grow to try and figure out which species they are.


It certainly will, at the moment I am leaning toward _M. egregius_ but I've not yet seen the full barring pattern. They're very cool and very curious, already they know I'm the food guy and rush the front pane to see if I'm going to feed them .


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Might be too young to tell yet ... my first guess based on the one pic would be _M. mirificus_ ... just becuase _M. egregius_ doesn't have a continious band ... but again, could be too small or still stressed when the pic was taken.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Hmm I wonder if they will have come from Peru.

Thing is that this LFS gets a lot of the SA's from Brazil - which would make me somewhat more inclined to think it would be _M. insignis_, but who knows. They are too young and far from stressed to be able to tell yet - I can't see any horizontal barring above the band which I would expect of _M. mirificus_.

Patience is required I think, unfortunately, I want to know now!! :lol: I've been looking at loads of pics trying to figure out where they might have come from, I'll try the LFS see if they know the collection point.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Did you want me to repost the, albiet somewhat old, species guide? Seemed to help with ryansmith's post one his.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Yeah nice one bro, I'd appreciate it.

I just got off the phone and they're from Brazil, so according to some that would point at insignis, but I'm not going to assume anything yet.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

From Dr. Wayne Leibel from his article on them way back in the December 1995 AFM issue ...



> *1a. Reticulated back: Mesonauta insignis - single wide dark vertical bar above the abdomen (not two), dark continuous lateral band, unpaired fins spotted, most slender, long nosed species. Distribution: upper Rio *****, Rio Orinoco
> 
> 1b. Non-Reticulated back:
> 
> ...


Hrm ... all the brazilian species has spotting on the unpaired fins, which I just am not seeing in yours. Curse the age thing!! *shakes fist at your fish*


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Hmm, although you cannot see it, the fins are spotted - the dorsal, caudal and anal fins all show spotting (ie all unpaired fins), along with how slender and "long nosed" they are I am steering towards _M. insignis_, they really are quite slight and long faced vs others.....


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I think you are right, the middle fish in your pic ... the back above the lateral band does seem to be reticulated ...


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

:thumb: Thought you might appreciate some pics of their non-cichlid tankmates.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

There are fish other than cichlids!?!?!??!?! :x

Remember, there are only 3 types of fish. Pike cichlids. Dithers for pike cichlids. And feeders for pike cichlids. :thumb:

Those rosaceus *are* pretty feeders though. :lol:

I love the dwarf gourami shot. I am a closet labyrinth fish fan.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

> I am a closet labyrinth fish fan


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Er, you and me both bud.

I'm hoping the rosaceus don't become pretty feeders for the Rottie , so far, so good :?.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

I think so I'll need to pick up some wild type betta species. And I've always wanted to do a chocolate gourami tank ...

Those rosaceus remind me a lot of those new (at least around here) four eye phantoms from Guyana.


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## andrew__ (Aug 5, 2006)

How are these guys doing with your sev? I know it hasn't been very long but looking forward to updates :wink:


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

hey thanks bud, good to hear from ya. How are the feesh! Just a quick one, on the move so mobile inet hopefully goes thru. All three are doin just fine in their trio. Sev completely ignores them, in fact only the laetacara pay any attention and even thats pretty mellow! Photos when i'm back online.


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## andrew__ (Aug 5, 2006)

Cool, good to hear. Now in your first post you mentioned that you weren't interested in Keyholes (at least not in a community) - are that too shy? no compatible? I'd been thinking about a second fish for my 5' 65gal and was looking at Keyholes, festivums or something like a blue acara. Keyholes are available easily, festivums shouldn't be _too_ hard to find and Blue acaras may or may not be available (and aren't top of the list right now either).... So you can see why this thread is just what I'm looking for!

I'm also considering (instead of getting a mid size species) closing down my 30gal and moving my rams into the 65 & adding to the school with another male and a few females and dropping the whole high-ish planted tank thing (moving to less edible low light plants with my sev - he doesn't touch Pogostemon stellatus at all but can decimate a stand of hygro in hours... I'll post another thread to discus my options rather than hijacking yours though.

The rosaceus are nice too, similar to bleeding hearts (including in that they don't get eaten by a sev :wink: )


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

Hey bud, my reasons for not stocking keyholes;

I've already kept them for a while and just didn't find them _that_ entertaining. I do like them, just not as much as the other fish I choose to keep.

They can be shy, but I find that passes after a short while, which leads me on to my main reason...

They get too boisterous with the Bolivians once they've settled in, nothing major but they are quite full bodied fish in comparison, so the weight is in their favour and they use it to dominate. So although I never really had any outward aggression or conficts, the Bolivians were quite clearly subdominant and "uncomfortable" with the situation. Not what I want when I want to breed them.

I never had issues with the Rottie and the Keyholes, the larger Keyhole seemed to think he was a young Rotkeil and would follow the Sev around all over the place, very amusing and totally harmless behaviour, my Sev is quite tolerant and so didn't seem to mind this little trailing companion too much, unless it got in front of his face with attitude, in which case he'd bluff charge and that was that.

The final point is that I absolutely adore Laetacara, and Keyholes are just too similar so I'd expect to see quite a lot of conflict there, the Laetacara can kick ass but they're not so fussed with the Bolivians/Festies etc, but I can easily see them going rounds with a Keyhole.

I've yet to see the Bolivians even acknowledge the presence of the Festies and vice versa. I got the insignis and they really seem to hug the mid - top levels of the tank, only on occasion venturing down into the lower plant levels to forage.


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## conor (May 19, 2007)

Blairo, how are those festivums getting along? They are beauties. A fish I never thought too much about until recently.

Do you think 4 would be a suitable number as centrepiece fish for a 50 gallon corner bowfront (tankmates to be worked around them)?


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

Blairo, does your rottie have a name? Or am I the only crazy person that names her fish?


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

*conor*
They're doing great bud, they absolutely have a whale of a time in my tank, they still cruise around in their trio although I think I'm seeing what will eventually become a pair and suspect I will need to remove the third. I already have them eating NLS out of my cupped palm and if I hold in one of my Rotties 7.5mm pellets they really try to wrestle it from me. Very amusing considering how young they still are, if it keeps up like this I should have them very well trained by the time they get enough size to feel a little more "confident" that they aren't going to be eaten.

I really couldn't say how 4 would do in a 50 corner yet, I'll let you know how mine get on, but my suspicions are that if you did 4 in a 50 corner I'd try to get 1m and 4f, aiming to have a single pair with other females as choice and of course to disperse aggression, but you may find the lack of real estate (once they get bigger) will require only a pair to the tank.... Hopefully one of our other Festivum keepers can offer further insight.

*Isis24*
I don't think you're crazy! A lot of people here like to name their fish, I'm a little more scientific about it and I just love the scientific names, there's something very pleasant about how they sound. Of course this doesn't mean the fish can't be named, I let a good friend of mine from this forum (cuddlefish) name him, who first spurred my interest in Sevs. He decided on Leo - because my sev is big enough to eat anything in my tanks, but he's just too kind and gentle. Even when attacked he just slowly drifts off and turns around to see who it was, without any repercussion, the worst being a bluff charge, but he doesn't put much effort into that either :lol:.


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## conor (May 19, 2007)

Cheers. I haven't seen full grown festivums in the flesh so haven't got a grasp of how big/bulky they get. Also not sure how lively they are. I have read a lot about them having similar disposition to discus but have also seen a few clips on You Tube where they look quite lively. Just not sure how that would work in my tank, which is big but not huge.

Likely tankmates would be a tetra school and a smaller bottom-dwelling apisto trio or keyhole or curviceps/dorsigera pair.

I have read a lot about how they school so was hoping that 4 would work.

It is interesting that they do not have the popularity of other medium-large cichlids such as severums. They seem to have all the right attributes IMV - medium size, sociability, peaceful nature and a subtle beauty.

Anyway thanks Blairo and keep us updated as I'm still learning/researching these fish as a possible next purchase. :fish:


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

I'd say they were more boisterous and active than Discus, certainly they are so far. My Rottie acts more discus-like than the festivums!


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## conor (May 19, 2007)

Yes there seem to be no set rules with sevs. They all seem to have such individual personalities. Although, I do read a lot about rotties being very peaceful. Perhaps they are different than greens?

Anyway, I'm liking the idea of 4 festivums. I'd really like to keep cardinals with them but am aware of the obvious consequences!

I don't see festivums often in my local Maidenhead Aquatics though.


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## blairo1 (May 7, 2006)

They've got them @ Carnon Downs MH so I'd look into your local one soon as they may have come up on their order sheets. Talk to the store manager - they usually select from the lists what they want in, but they are working to quite a strict budget, if you want something like a festivum they're usually willing to order them as they know others will probably be interested too. Wanting larger numbers always gives them more inclination to order something specifically for you.


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