# 150 gal with 80 gal sump



## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

*** got a 150 gal (72x20x24) currently housing 2 red eared slider turtles and some cichlids. Its running at about 3/4 full (about 100 gal). Filtered by DIY 40 gal wet/dry, DIY PVC overflows operating at about 500 gph. :thumb: I am in the process of researching and designing "my Malawi setup." Im going to put the turtles in the backyard pond and use the 150 gal for "my fishes" :fish: I recently got a "Beater" 80 gal glass for $25, cleaned it up and decided its not so worthy of using for display so i was going to use it for my sump. I use 2, 5 gal buckets for water top off at the moment and was thinking of using about 20 gal of the 80 gal tank for a resevoir for the water top off....or in some way use it as a refugium(may be overkill)/hatchery (maybe do some future breeding). Going to up my circulation as well, around 1100gph. Skimmerless overflow is in mind. Trying to come up with a design for pre-filter (utilizing micron bags). 80 gal dimensions are 60x13x22, under cabinet height is 32".







Anyone who has got any ideas, input, questions, or concerns would be greatly appreciated.


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

so whats the deal? *** got 53 views and no comments? no one has any suggestions? ideas? views? :fish: the fish need it!!


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

The only real suggestion I have is get some doors on that stand! lol....

It sounds like you know what your doing, have experience with the design and set up of what your getting yourself into... So I'm not really sure what any of us can offer.

Do you have any specific questions? Or ideas you'd like to hear first hand experience on?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a top off chamber. The simple fact that your new sump will be considerably larger (footprint & volume) sump evaporation will be more spread out. Covering the sump as well as the aquarium is a decent idea if topping off is a concern.

I do like the idea of a refugium. I don't understand why so many people use huge volumes of bio media or even wet dry media. Typically such filtration is not even needed, much less in the sheer volumes used in most sumps. Using plants in the sump does the same thing as a wet dry (remove ammonia/nitrite) but takes this process one step further (nitrates). It just seems like a more efficient use of sump space to me...

I'm personally not a fan of HOB overflows. Is your tank drilled? I've heard to many reports of them not functioning at the flow rates they are advertised. They rely on a siphon between the tank and the overflow box... and since siphons between containers of nearly the same elevation are slow... the speed of overflow boxes are limited...

For example, we often read that the "maximum" flow of a 1" diameter pipe is 600 gph. But that is when a siphon is formed in that 1" pipe with a minimum of 9" uninterrupted vertical drop. With less than an uninterrupted 9" vertical drop the 1" diameter pipe will function at less than 600 gph.

*Note: I cannot verify the numbers used, though I can verify the philosophy they represent. These numbers did come from a source that is likely accurate, but I am not "betting my reputation" on it.

I'd also get butterflies in my stomach when I was away knowing that a siphon was the only thing preventing my tank from overflowing onto the living room floor. While I know that this siphon breaking and causing problems is almost unheard of, I'd struggle to go to far from home with it running...

There are reliable designs to that siphon though... Picture a W... with the center peak higher than the ends... with the downward peaks submerged and the higher center peak between containers... If the water levels lower... when the tips of the W hit air.. the water will 'craddle' at that level... thus when the water level on one side rises, it will "unpause" the flow...

I had read this theory quite some time ago but only put it to use recently. It is a really neat theory that allows me to sleep quite sound...

Did we cover refugiums... I think so... refugiums rock... Just make sure you keep your plants out of your pump...

Oh yea... and get some doors on that thing! lol...

Best of luck and looking forward to watching it develop.


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

check out these pics (not mine, source unknown)




























i want to do something similar......micron bag pre-filter, wet/dry, refugium, return pump. i want submersed plants as well as some out of the water (if possible) along with some small fauna (ie. shrimp) not too sure what kind of plants or critters would be benificial to my filtration needs. any help helps! :fish:


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Scales...

Click Edit on the above post and hit enter between the images...

It will make yuor thread a lot easier to view...

Thanks


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

i dont see any way to edit...


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

There should be 3 tabs in the top right corner of your post... Quote, Edit and Report...


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

it only has 2 "quote" and "edit"


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## justinf67 (Jul 19, 2009)

um, are you serious. read your last post...Hit the edit button


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

no one cares any ways...whatever opcorn:


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

justinf67 said:


> um, are you serious. read your last post...Hit the edit button


LMAO!

Scales, you walked right into that one :thumbsup:

Maybe if we smile real pretty if a Mod stumbles across this thread he/she may clean up your picture heavy post for us.


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## larry.beck (Jul 31, 2009)

Just a heads up to the mods that I also don't have edit privilege on my own posts, and yes, I do know where to look. I wonder if newer users are missing that privilege...?


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

justinf67 said:


> um, are you serious. read your last post...Hit the edit button


OHHH ****!! :lol: The buttons are as followed: "Quote" and "Report" sorry for my error!!

So until the mods get here to clean up my mess, (typical of me by the way to make a mess of things, my wife loves it!) we will just have to settle with this big page  Im still not comming to any sort of conclusion on how i want this to be......overall appearance has to look good opcorn: , so taking my time in planning and design is a must! Do i want a lot of water in my refuge or a little? This will determine where, and how im going to place my wet dry "compartment", as well as the pre-filtration(micron bags) The wheels in my head keep on turning!!!!!!!!! :dancing:


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

Woops!


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

so here she is, 80gal (60x13x23) future refugium project










ordered some glass to be used as baffels. i have somewhat of an idea conjured up on paper though nothing final yet.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

In my experience, in typical set ups (meaning typical amounts of substrate, dÃ©cor and not grossly overstocked) , Bio media is not necessary, much less a wet/dry filter.

So if you have â€œtypicalâ€


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

I have two sumps set up now. Both were designed around the refugium. You will get many different opinions when it comes to flow rate thru the fuge but I keep it well under 3X's the display tank per hour. Fast growing floaters work the best at scrubbing nitrAtes from my experience but require the most work in maintenance. Then you need to decide if you want "raw" tank water feeding the sump and the cleaners or filtered water.

What I did was divide the sump up with 2/3's or so for the fuge and leave this baffle 3 inches lower than the tank rim. I over flow this compartment into the pump well. The other third of the sump is divided in half for wet/ dry and mechanical and a pump well using baffles arranged so I get a well that can handle three days evaporation and not overfill the display if the overflows block up. All DIY and works great.


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## jagz (Nov 1, 2009)

LOL!!! Thanks for the laughs guys......BTW Toby, my ebjd is doing much better. Thanks for the help. :fish:


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## wheatbackdigger (May 11, 2008)

I'd suggest child proofing that stand for starters. Makes me nervous just looking at it.


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

yah, thats my boy Gavin Danger! Hes just testing the water for me! :lol: Definately on the list of "to-do's" :thumb:


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

so how about like this, (course, fine, finer for the mech/bio), refugium (sand, Flora: Vallisneria, Java Moss, Java Fern, Pygmy Chain Sword, Dwarf Sag., Dwarf Anubias. Fauna: Shrimp? Daphnia? any other "cleaner" type critters...) heater/return pumps.

Any input on plant selection? shrimp?

ph is a sustained 8.2, Temp. 78-80F

Type of substrate? Silica sand ok? Maybe a little Flourite? Co2?

Anyone ever cultured Daphnia for "filtration/food"?


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I like itâ€¦ I like it a lotâ€¦ There are a couple things Iâ€™d do differentâ€¦

To make it simple, I made an illustrationâ€¦










Having no media in the first chamber allows waste/debris to evenly enter into the media. If you dump it straight out of the pipe into media the point where it dumps will get excessively clogged. Also when you turn the pump off you can very quickly / easily siphon out bigger waste/debris that falls to the bottom of that first chamberâ€¦

The sand as media is an option. Itâ€™s something I plan to try personally, but since I havenâ€™t yet tried it I canâ€™t vouch for how well it will work. It is very important we keep sand out of the pump, but this design has two layers of fine media to make sure it stays out.

The wall in the middle of the refugium ensures water goes through the refugiumâ€¦

I would then build a frame that rests on the tabs shown. This frame would have a rigid perimeter (Iâ€™m thinking Plexiglas) and plastic window screen wrapped around that perimeter frame. This would hold the plants in the refugium and keep them out of the final layer of media & the pump.

I wouldnâ€™t want to use sand in the refugium as a substrate. Having it â€˜bare bottomâ€™ allows you to pull the plants and siphon vac it out for a quick and easy cleaning. Iâ€™m not much of a plant buff so Iâ€™m hesitant to make specific suggestions, but from what I understand your low light plants tend to rely more on nutrients from the water, which is exactly what you are looking for. There are a few hardy low light floating plants and mosses that do not need substrate.


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

as for the media in the first 3 baffles as well as last...sponges varying in ppi (course to fine)or something else in mind? no need for ceramic rings, bio-balls, bio wheels, hamster wheels, lava rock, carbon, or any of that in my new opinion, and as well as in yours,(or so im assuming :-? ) Also, imo, i was thinking that if i did use sponges, fine being on each end of the refuge, some sand in the bottom for aesthetic purposes wouldnt hurt....as mentioned before i want it too look nice as well. i have a nice piece of driftwood i was going to tie off some plants and java moss to. i would also like to embed some plants as well. like the photo.










wow, talk about upkeep though...i dont think ill have nearly as many, nor want, think of a smooth flowing stream....










once again though not hardly as overtaking.....i want it to look nice all in all with nothing but benificial purposes.

on another note, having been done with sponge filtration in the first 3 baffles that would limit waste as i said before to the refuge leaving me no chance to keep any sort of shrimpy critter down there, no? but then again whatever....just something cool to look at/keep alive :lol:

daphnia, for "micro fish food"???? refuge material or just cultivate in a bucket in the backyard and dump some in on occasion?

Maybe one day the wheels will stop turning........................................................ :roll: :fish:


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## wheatbackdigger (May 11, 2008)

scales77oi said:


> so how about like this, (course, fine, finer for the mech/bio), refugium (sand, Flora: Vallisneria, Java Moss, Java Fern, Pygmy Chain Sword, Dwarf Sag., Dwarf Anubias. Fauna: Shrimp? Daphnia? any other "cleaner" type critters...) heater/return pumps.
> 
> Any input on plant selection? shrimp?
> 
> ...


Your plans probably would work, two concerns of mine. 1) if your diagram is accurate, it may be difficult to silicone baffles that close together (they only look a couple of inches apart) and 2) the baffles seem to be tall. There is going to be alot of water in the sump, I would fear of flooding the sump should something happen to your pump or the electricity goes out.

Good Luck
Doug


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Doug made a good point about designing it in such a way to ensure when the pump is turned off the sump has 'empty' space to hold the water that will inevitably overflow into the sump. Though I see no reason to leave more 'empty' space than needed to catch this overflow'.

Building walls/baffles close together isnâ€™t that rough. Once you get the first one in place, let it dry then use boards to create a spacer. This should very easily make a nice guide to keep the walls/baffled parallel to each other and evenly spaced apart.

I do admit in my above design & suggestions I was using efficiency as my guide, not making it 'pretty' nor invertebrate friendly.

Provided you have a form of fine(ish) mechanical media between the refugium and the pump, I see no reason why you couldnâ€™t use sand in the refugium. I only suggested against it for ease of cleaning. But if being aesthetically pleasing is more important than being able to zip through a thorough cleaning, then by all means, use sand

I also think you could use my design, or yours, and slide all of the walls/baffles to the right of the refugium so that physical waste goes into the sump potentially supplying waste/debris/uneaten food as food for invertebrates. I personally wouldnâ€™t want to take this route simply because I would want to remove that waste from the system before it breaks down into pollutants (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphates, etc). But again, if the aesthetics of having shrimp and the convenience waste as food provides, trumps the minimization of waste byproducts for your set up, by all means, do what works for you

Just to clarify, when I point out what works for me and what may work for you are different, Iâ€™m by no means suggesting my way is better or there is anything wrong with your way. We each have different priorities, goals and conveniences that are important to us individually.

Iâ€™m looking forward to seeing what you finally come up with and how it looks complete. You seem to be putting the forethought into it to come up with something really nice. You surely won my attention!


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

not worried about siliconing baffles, they are gonna be 3" apart so not a concern.

not worried about power outtage, at most 10-15 gal would be the max to leave the display tank, and *** got over 30 gal. to spare even with my sump being that full.


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## wheatbackdigger (May 11, 2008)

scales77oi said:


> not worried about siliconing baffles, they are gonna be 3" apart so not a concern.
> 
> not worried about power outtage, at most 10-15 gal would be the max to leave the display tank, and I've got over 30 gal. to spare even with my sump being that full.


Should work then, just be careful you dont hold to much water in your return pump chamber, you don't want to flood the tank should you lose your siphon. It looks to be about 25% of the sump. (I am sure you thought of that already, I just wanted to point it out incase anyone else is looking to design something similar)

Good Luck 
Doug


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

hopefully ill get my glass today.....still not too sure what to use for media. I was thinking of just using 3 foam blocks, course to fine, or would somethng else be more appropriate?


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## NetStalker (Oct 9, 2009)

Just an off topic post...

The edit button for me only exist for about 5-10 minutes after I post, after that I am no longer able to edit the post.

back on topic....

I look forward to seeing more pics of this setup, kinda nice to have "show" stuff down below instead of just the standard slew of pipes hoses and equipment.

Regards,

NS

:fish:


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

Gettin ancy!!! :dancing: Got my glass today!!










Prepped the tank today, will clean with alcohol tomm. and hopefully start siliconing in some baffles.......... :fish:


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## john73738 (Sep 22, 2009)

Nice, Can't wait to see the outcome of this thread.


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

got some baffles siliconed in place, ill do the other 3 after the holidays.....


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

Thanksgiving morning!! :dancing: I am thankful for GE silicone 1, and side firebox smokers! been up since 4 a.m. Prepping the turkey thats been waiting for today, tossed it on the smoker about 5. Just about done, those pics will follow..... In the midst of it all, and since i was up and about i figured id get the rest of the baffles siliconed in place.




























As you can see the 3 lower baffles are already securely in place. I used 1/2" plywood at the desired height to keep the 3 other baffles elevated as they were glued and dried. i used masking tape to temporarily stabilize them. Ill do a water test in a day or so.....

Time to go enjoy some smoked turkey, and company! Happy Thanksgiving all!!

until then............. :fish:


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Glass, wood and silicone... now that's just sexy...


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## TheBanker (Jun 14, 2008)

nice, i want to see that sump in action. when you had your glass cut how much shorter did you make the width to make room for silicone? but not to tight


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

got the glass cut 1/8" short, giving me 1/16" on each side. If you get the edges polished you may want to stick with the exact dimensions otherwise you will lose almost 1/8".


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

Painted the back black today, as well as siliconed the the back side of all the baffles.

Finished product no water test :thumb: :









Ill do a water test tomm. to make sure all my seals are water tight. :dancing:


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

wow!! I need another job! Anyone wanna go in on some Matala filter media? any alternatives? been looking into different porosity outdoor foam for cushions, though it all seems to be the same. looked into as well as used cut-to-fit air filter media.....blah. :?

did a water test tody to make sure all my seals were good, no leaks!!! :dancing:

need to order a new pump as well. been eyeballin' a danner magdrive 18 rated at about 1200gph @ 5' head. any input on these pumps?


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## wheatbackdigger (May 11, 2008)

Looks good so far. One question on the silicone. I haven't done much siliconing and it's my understanding that silicone doesn't adhere to silicone that well. With that said, how do ensure you have a water tight seal on the bottom of the tank, where the bottom corners of the baffles meets the existing silicone on the tanks? If that makes sense, I only ask, because shortly, I'll be building a sump with a wet/dry and have this concern.

Thanks
Doug


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

i stripped all the silicone out of the interior of the tank. i siliconed each compartment seperately, all seems. this should pretty much guarentee a good seal.


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

here we are with the final design, filled to operating level.










need to get a new pump, some plants and some sort of media for filtration.....


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Media:

The Matala stuff seems pretty cool and conveniently comes in 4 sizes, which is exactly what you (and I) are looking for. But I agree the price tag on the stuff seems pretty stupid for what is realistically just a sponge... I don't plan on paying the pricetag for it...

After I sent you the link to it and did the math of what it would take to use it, I kept on looking. Armed with google and phrases like "sponge media", "pond media", etc I found a handful of other options. I've never bought from Big Al's personally but they have a good reputation (see reviews section to confirm) and they had a few options. It's not the progressive perfect sizes like Matala, but it could get you going for 40 bucks instead of 140...

What I'll probably do is buy the cheap stuff to start and then continue shopping around for a good price on each size I still want. I also plan on searching well outside the aquarium/pond/media stores (furniture cushions just might work for fine filtration... felt fabric also works well).

Sealing Baffles:

That's awesome that yours are each water tight Scales, I think that would naturally be the goal. But we shuold also keep in mind if one chamber has the potential for a very small leak into the next chamber, it really wouldn't matter.

It looks great Scales... I hope mine turns out that well!


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

haha, sounds just like me. just goes to show we are both "nuts". :lol: i too have looked into big als and have seen the many foams/sponges they carry. also been "researching" and have found that the foams vary in "porosity" measured in "ppi" (pours per inch). there are many different manufacturers of these foams yet the price is still up there. seems as if you got to order a quarter sheet, half sheet, full sheet, all varrying in price with thickness. wouldnt be bad to have "back up," $'s what matters here though. looked into swisstropicals? he carries foam for mattenfilters of different ppi, up there on my list as well.... :fish:


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## wheatbackdigger (May 11, 2008)

Toby_H said:


> Media:
> 
> The Matala stuff seems pretty cool and conveniently comes in 4 sizes, which is exactly what you (and I) are looking for. But I agree the price tag on the stuff seems pretty stupid for what is realistically just a sponge... I don't plan on paying the pricetag for it...
> 
> ...


I ordered four 1/2 sheets of the Matala last week, one each of the four densities. Should be here this week sometime. Never used it before, but it was exactly what I was looking for.

If you are using a siphon overflow, I would ensure the pump chamber be water tight. A loss of the siphon, could potentionally drain the entire sump which MAY result in a flooded tank. If the display tank is drilled, it shouldn't be a problem. I agree that any small leaks outside the pump chamber shouldn't be an issue. (just stating potential issues, if others are looking at similar designs, don't tear me apart Toby)

I


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

Nice, wanna sell me some? (i am definately jealous) (my b-day is commin' up) :lol:

I agree with the return chamber, that was my main concern (wouldnt want to pump 40 gal. onto the floor. small leaks in the rest of the baffles, no worries. though i am a perfectionist and if it werent water tight i would have made it so.

Let me know how that Matala stuff works out for you, until i find something worthy in my price range my project is on hold.


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## wheatbackdigger (May 11, 2008)

I may have missed it, but what thickness of glass are you using for your baffles? Oh, by the way the project is looking good

Thanks
Doug


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

i went with 3/16".

1/8" is too thin and 1/4" was too expensive. For the 6 pieces it cost me $21. They measure 12 1/8" x 13". I got hooked up though, about half off. Original quotes were ranging from about $80-$110.


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## mightyevil (Oct 23, 2008)

Should be interesting to see this unravel!


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## wheatbackdigger (May 11, 2008)

scales77oi said:


> i went with 3/16".
> 
> 1/8" is too thin and 1/4" was too expensive. For the 6 pieces it cost me $21. They measure 12 1/8" x 13". I got hooked up though, about half off. Original quotes were ranging from about $80-$110.


Thanks, I have the local glass company cutting mine today sometime. I went with 1/4" because that is what they had in the shop. Mine were cut 12 X 17 3/8 for a 75 gallon. My design only calls for 4 baffles. I think it only gives me 1/32" play on both sides. Hopefully it works.

Thanks
Doug


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

scales77oi said:


> looked into swisstropicals? he carries foam for mattenfilters of different ppi, up there on my list as well.... :fish:


I've never used or even seen Swiss Tropicals material in person, but I've talked to a few people online who were very happy with it and have not heard anyone complain about it... I would definitely put it on the consideration list...



wheatbackdigger said:


> (just stating potential issues, if others are looking at similar designs, don't tear me apart Toby)


Tear you up? Heck I completely agree with you! I personally wouldn't rely on a siphon overflow so having made that decision for myself I tend to forgot to include the methods of protecting oneself from the associated risks of using them... In otherwords, I forgot... Thanks for pointing it out!



scales77oi said:


> until i find something worthy in my price range my project is on hold.


If I were in your shoes... I would still move forward, just use a cheap sponge... for the fine media wrap a cheap sponge in felt fabric... while keeping an eye out for something better. That experience may also help you evaluate how important "perfect" media is.


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

alas you have done it again Toby!! Such an inspiration!! :lol: Got some 1" tubing, some more pvc fittings and some "cheap for the time being filter media" :thumb:

Been fiddling around for a bit and have come up with this so far...

Cut-to-fit rigid self supporting air filter (the blue stuff)  . I cut it to snuggly fit each chamber.

















2nd chamber i used some vent filters for central a/c covering "the blue stuff".








seemed to be a good "medium" filter.

last i used some 100% polyester felt fabric from a fabric store wrapped around "the blue stuff" great "fine" filtration.









operational!! :dancing: nothing in the last chamber yet. i ran out of "the blue stuff"  









seems to be working pretty good, the water flow wasnt affected much at all running at about 300gph now, curious to see it with full, intended, 1100gph.....

gotta wait until i get my pump......my birthday is comming up did i mention? everyone should pitch in and get me a mag drive!! :thumb: :dancing: :fish:


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

You want to use the sponges so they filter on the water's up-flow thru the baffles. I have had a problem in the past with an arrangement similar to this. The solution was frequent maintenance. No big deal, just take out the sponge and give it a shake in a bucket of water, but it needed to be done regularly.

The way it is set up, the middle sponge, as it starts to collect "stuff", the water in that baffle area will start to rise and over flow that chamber. Consider removing the middle sponge or add another baffle set and filter on the up-flow.


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

so then what in the 2nd chamber? maybe bio balls and some pumped air? or maybe just leave it empty, i guess it is ok for that too.........


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

I got better results leaving it empty. The only way to tell is to run it for a few days after the display is stocked and you will see.

What I did to get around this was to use real coarse pond media material and then a finer sponge in the last baffle only.


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

got the refugium under the tank yesterday. did some modifying to the stand (cut a hole in the side) to get it in. plumbed up one of my overflows, filled with water, return pumps............

OPERATIONAL!!!!!! :dancing:

kinda concerned with the flow rate....its running at close to 600 gph and thats about half the flow :-? im definately going to have some tabs cut for me to help keep my media in place (just wedgeing the sponges in doesnt hold them tight enough)

running diy pvc overflows 1" (i can attain almost full 600 gph rate)
http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-overflow/120.asp
was thinking about converting to more like Bulldogg7's skimmerless overflow design
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_skimmerless_overflow.php

im just looking for something more "simple," drilling is not an option as i have no idea the make of the tank. wouldnt wanna risk breaking the glass.

gonna head to the LFS to order some plants and gather more knowledge :thumb: :fish:


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

already have fug stocked with: java fern, vallisneria....flourite substrate. waiting on the rest of my plants: pygmy chain sword, dwarf sag., java moss. ill get pics uploaded soon.

so *** had the fuge running for about 2 weeks now with plants. *** got about 2 watts per gal. (6500k daylight cfl) nitrates are at 10ppm, ph 8.0, flourite substrate, 78 degrees. so far *** got 5 java ferns, 10 corkscrew vallisneria, 1 vallisneria americana, some daphnia, micro worms, and a lonely nerite snail (thanks to the plants) upon first arrival of my vallisneria i noticed that they were the wrong kind, so back to the lfs for exchange! (thanks for giving me 11, i kept 1) took them about a month to get me Vallisneria tortifolia, i wont go there again. finally got the right kind, looked great! nice tight spirals, vibrant green! awesome! planted in the substrate, roots only, did well for the first week then slowly started to melt off leaves. trimmed them off, only to wake to more melting. my java ferns are doing great. just the vals are showing signs of "shock" maybe? eventually will it grow back so long as the roots arnt going bad as well? im new to this whole "plant" thing! please help!

ill post pics later today...


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

here are some latest pics

full setup









refugium section









left side of refugium with corkscrew vallisneria









filtration chambers









return section









new rock pile from a local hill









*** got a DIY background in the ole brain being conjured up as well......well see how that turns out


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## MCHRKiller (Dec 27, 2009)

Awesome project :thumb: I never would have thought to put a fuge on a FW tank.


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

Green water!! *** been battling green water for the past few weeks now. not super green but i definately do not like it! is this an imbalance of o2 and Co2.


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## hydrophyte (Dec 16, 2009)

This is cool. Will the cabinet remain doorless? I think that the view of the sump and refugium working is a neat feature of the display.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

A UV sterylizer will clear green water very quickly.


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

yah no doors on this badboy, though i am in the process of designing up a new stand that will display the tank and full refugium but will have doors on either side to cover the mechanical filtration and return pumps.


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## SuperBro (Feb 22, 2010)

scales - how many pvc overflows are you running?

I'm having trouble understanding how they maintain their siphon...any help?


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

2- 1" pvc overflows. one is a surface skimmer and the other is a down tube. look at the pictures on the other page...thats all getting changed soon anyways. Im getting a new pump that will be pushing about 1100 gph. im changing the pvc overflows to be like bulldogg7's skimmerless overflow. and im re-stocking with large malawi haps.


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## SuperBro (Feb 22, 2010)

What is the U-Shaped PVC that is in the middle of your tank?

Why are you changing from the PVC overflows? I checked out the link and loved the design - it would allow me to keep the tank as close to the wall as possible as opposed to the container overflows (which you usually need about 4" behind the tank).
Are you not getting the 600gph per overflow?


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## SuperBro (Feb 22, 2010)

Do you have any trouble maintaining the siphon with the PVC overflows you have?

http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/di ... ow/120.asp


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

only prob is siphon break. if it happens siphon has to be primed again. the "U" in the middle is a surface skimmer, with this design if powergoes out it will automatically start again hwne it comes back on.


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## SuperBro (Feb 22, 2010)

What would cause the siphon break in this application?

http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/di ... ow/120.asp


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## scales77oi (Apr 17, 2009)

the siphon will break in the event of a power outage to where you pump is no longer returning water. you want to drill a small hole in the siphon tube an inch or so below the water level as a fail safe so you dont drain all the water out of your tank and overflow your sump.


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## SuperBro (Feb 22, 2010)

So the pvc overflow in that link isn't an overflow - it's just an intake?

As far as I understand overflows, in the event of a power outage, an overflow will drain until the water level in the overflow matches that of the tank, which then stops all flow, the siphon is maintained and it returns to normal function once power is restored - the siphon should not need to be restarted. Also, you should not need a siphon break on the intake of the overflow. I do know that you would need one on the return line to prevent backflow during a power outage.


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