# Is this fungus?



## sdboers (Aug 19, 2014)

G'day,
Recently got a 135 gallon fully stocked and cycled cichlid tank. Didn't notice anything wrong with this guy during the move, but that doesn't mean he didn't come that way. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and Ph are all within range (didn't write down the values) - but I can test again if needed.

At any rate - there seems to be a white spot / growth on his "nose". I'm wondering if someone can help me confirm it is fungus? and if so - the recommended treatment. I see a similar spot on one other fish - I'm assuming I should treat the whole tank?

Hope the pictures are clear enough to get some assistance in diagnosis and treatment. Thanks in advance - ask any questions needed and I will answer back as quickly as possible.










































Sean.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Could be from lip locking but it's usually lower than that. 
Anytime you move a tank and re-set it back up there's always a chance of losing your biological filtration. So I would test the water just to be sure and it's not going to hurt to do a partial water change using a good quality dechlorinator. 40-50%

Another thing that happens during a move is that your fish get stressed and any time they're stressed they become susceptible to things they are normally immune to. Such as Mouth Fungus which is actually a bacterial disease known as Columnaris. 
It's impossible to tell if that's what you're dealing with here or not. Has it been a few days or longer that the fish has had this white spot? Has it changed at all since the first time you noticed it?

The treatment for Columnaris is to first of all lower the water temp to 76'. Do a partial water change of 50%. Add salt, sodium chloride at the rate of 1 tablespoon per five gallons, dissolve it first and add it gradually. (the salt is not a cure but it may help keep the bacteria from adhering to the fish's skin, so it may slow it down a bit). Maintain good water movement in the tank--this will also keep the bacteria from adhering to the fish's skin. 
For meds you want to use Maracyn & Maracyn-two---used together
OR
Kanamycn
There are other antibiotics that will work

With a 135 gallon tank you're looking at a lot of meds and since we don't have a definite diagnosis I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to hold off. You might just start with lowering the temp, adding the salt and increasing the water movement but I would at least know where you can purchase the meds because Columnaris can move very quickly on a fish and in a tank.

Hopefully you're just looking at something very minor that is going to correct itself with a little time but for sure keep a very close eye on your tank.
Robin


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## sdboers (Aug 19, 2014)

Robin,
Thanks for the detailed response. I'll try and get a pic of the other fish that has a white bump as well and see if it helps with a diagnosis. These guys just don't want to stay still for a closeup!!

The biological filtration is all intact - I'm fairly confident of that. It was only a 15km move, the media stayed submerged, and it was all back up and running within 3 hours. All levels have been testing good as well. In fact the aquarium has less ammonia than my tap water - go figure. I have done 2 partial water changes in the week to be sure - using Prime on both occasions.

I have very good water movement - running 2 Eheim 2028s and 2 MaxiJet 1200s. Tank has been dosed with Aquarium salt as per the above measures.

Do those meds you suggest disrupt the biological filter?

Sean.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

> Do those meds you suggest disrupt the biological filter?


No, but it's always a good idea to test before, during and after when medicating.

Sounds like you did everything right and it's a good sign that the fish are too active to photograph. I would just keep an eye on the white spots--you don't want to see them spreading or reddening or becoming fuzzy. If it's been a few days now since you noticed the white spots and they haven't changed then I would hold off on meds and just maintain good water conditions with frequent partial water changes, etc.

Robin


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## sdboers (Aug 19, 2014)

Robin,
Never ceases to amaze me how many people on the internet are always willing to give of their time and help someone out. I really appreciate your time and effort.

I do have a few other fish showing similar spots, so I'll keep an eye on the whole tank and see how it progresses. Activity wise - you surely wouldn't notice anything is wrong (perhaps it isn't). Activity is at a great level - feeding each night is literally a frenzy, so no loss of appetite. I only lost one finger to the big Jack Dempsey... 

Ammonia is under 0.5, Nitrite is under 0.25 and Nitrate is between 20 and 50 so a bit on the high side - I'll do a water change today.

I lost a few fish to a bad water change (I am assuming too cold) so I have revised my water change process and made it dead simple. I now use a 30 gallon garbage pail which I fill the night before and treat with Prime and aquarium salt and toss in a heater. I got a small submersible pump with hose and a hook end I toss in and hang the hook on the tank. I built a PVC overflow that I put at the other end of the tank and drain it off to the sump pump in the basement. My water change now now consists of turning the pump on, reading a book, and watching fish... 

With respect to tank meds - do you have any viewpoint on Seachem ParaGuard? From reading it almost appears to be a silver bullet. Takes care of parasites, fungal and bacterial infections. Triple play? Not cheap though - would cost about $100 to run the full treatment on a 135 gallon tank.

Sean.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Can you elaborate on the fish you lost to the water change? Water that is cold, unless it was literally freezing cold, wouldn't cause an otherwise healthy fish to die. Can you describe what sort of symptoms, if any, the fish who died were showing in the days leading up to their deaths? Were they eating and swimming normally? Were any fish hanging at the top or bottom? How long after the water change did the fish die? As of today how long has the tank now been up and running? How many and what species of cichlids do you have? Have you noticed any chasing or aggression?
And you're very welcome on the help.

Robin


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## sdboers (Aug 19, 2014)

Robin,
I lost 2 Pictus Catfish and a Demasoni. Death was within 30 minutes of the water change - so I know I'm the cause (and I feel REALLY guilty!). Please - no bashing folks - but the temp in the tank dropped by about 8 degrees Fahrenheit - stupid mistake. The demasoni got very lethargic and then simply rolled over. The catfish went almost catatonic interspersed with bouts of complete thrashing. These particular fish looked and acted very very healthy prior to the water change.

There is a little bit of chasing going on in the tank, but nothing that I would consider abnormal or prolonged. The worst case of chasing is between two yellow lab males - the rest is less than the length of the tank and stopped. Not frequent.

No one is or was hanging at the top or bottom - with the exception of a couple yellow labs at the beginning that I attribute to the stress of the move. Tank was running in the previous location for years, has been running at my place now for 2 weeks with only that 3 hour interruption for the move. Less than 2 hour interruptions for the filters themselves.

Ok - the current list of fish is as follows (apologize for the mix of common a proper names):

Peacock (not sure) -1
Blue Dolphin - 1
Bristlenose Pleco - 1
Daffodil - 1
Demasoni - 1
Dragonsblood Peacock - 2
Electric Blue Ahli - 1
Electric Yellow Lab - 4 (2m, 2f)
Giraffe - 1 (large)
Jack Dempsey - 1 (large)
Kenyi - 2 (1m, 1f)
Livingstonii - 1
OB Peacock - 1
Power Blue Zebra - 1
Red Empress -2 (2f)
Red Zebra - 1
Sailfin Pleco - 1
Snow White - 1
Sunshine Peacock - 1
White Lab - 2
Wiliamsi?? - 1
Zebra Obliquidens - 4 (3m, 1f)
Elongatus Chewere - 1
Metriclimia Msobo - 1 
Copadichromis Borleyi - 1
Peratheraps Melanurus - 1 (large)
Pseudotropheus Elegans - 1

Sean.


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## sdboers (Aug 19, 2014)

Other considerations on the water change:

I am on a well and the house has a whole house water treatment system consisting of chlorine and alum injection to incoming water. That water goes to two 150 gallon holding tanks where impurities settle out before going to the rest of the house. After leaving the holding tanks, the water passes through a sediment filter, a carbon filter, and a water softener.

My tap water has a higher ammonia concentration than the tank. Tap water measures between 0.5 and 1.0 for ammonia. Nitrites and Nitrates measure zero. Chlorine measures zero. Ph measures about 7.8 to 8.0. Water directly from the tap measures about 70 degrees.

I treated the tank with Prime - but as noted - I now do that before adding to the tank via a garbage pail.

Sean.


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## Robin (Sep 18, 2002)

Sean I'm wondering now if it's your whole house water treatment system. I'm no expert on that--just seem to remember having seen posts on the subject. Let's see if we can get someone else to comment on it. How much water are you replacing at each water change?
Robin


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## sdboers (Aug 19, 2014)

I don't think it is the water treatment system - but I am not willing to rule it out. That first water change was a 50% direct from the tap - Prime added to the tank.

The second water change was more like 20% and was a dilution type change using the pump in and overflow out. No ill effects from this water change.

My only other thought is potential contamination from the hose used to fill the tank on the first change. Although I rinsed the hose quite well with hot water - I now notice there are some black dots on the inside - potentially mold? I now have that hose soaking in a bleach solution.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

To rule out the house filter you would need to measure KH and more importantly GH from the tap (which I suspect is low or nil). GH is general hardness, comprised mainly of calcium and magnesium. In an ion exchange softener which uses salt (there are other types, determine which is yours), the calcium and magnesium are removed and replaced with sodium. You can counteract this removal by using epsom salt which adds magnesium and will thus raise the GH level, however, the calcium level is not affected. As (bad) luck would have it calcium is one mineral that is essential for proper osmoregulation in fish. In addition, there is a possibility that the increased sodium content of the filtered water will have a harmful effect on certain fish, more so with soft water fish as opposed to Africans, however Africans will be more sensitive to low calcium and magnesium. This is why many aquarists bypass their softeners.


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## sdboers (Aug 19, 2014)

The water softener is easily bypassed. I will ensure to do so in the future. I will also get a hardness test kit.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

:thumb: I would test all parameters including hardness for the prefiltered water and compare to the filtered water. If the levels are drastically different, it wouldn't hurt to perform several small water changes over a few days so as to not shock the fish.
As far as the possible fungus on the fish posted, I think it looks like lip locking as Robin has suggested and agree that you should observe for any changes in size or color.


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