# Red Top Ndumbi Cichlid



## RedTop123 (Apr 19, 2014)

Hello, I'll start out by saying I'm new to this forum. I've looked all over the web for the answer to my question and haven't gotten a solid answer, so I'm going to ask the community personally

I have a group of seven Red Top Ndumbi cichlids. I ordered two of them online at thatpetplace.com and they are a little larger, maybe a half inch, than the other five that I got from a local breeder. The two are about 2.5 inches, maybe 3. I initially got nine of them and my boyfriend kept four.

Two of his are starting to show their colors, but only one more than the other one, so I know they are the right fish! In my tank however, out of the two I ordered online one is showing AMAZING color, the other one looks like, from what I have read, a subdominant male. The other five however (keep in mind are a little smaller) still look very drab, although some have egg spots already. The substrate in my tank is black sand, and my boyfriend has light blue gravel.

Could the black sand be making them look darker until the color _really_ pops? Or does only the one dominant male of this species get beautiful colors? I've had them for about a year now. The ones I got from the breeder were so tiny I had to keep them in a separate tank for a while, but they're been in my main tank for about 7 or 8 months now.

Thank you for any feedback


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## phishman2001 (Apr 12, 2013)

Not sure about the color, but those are some angry mean fish. Very aggressive.


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## RedTop123 (Apr 19, 2014)

When I first got the two online, they were in there by them selves. BIG mistake, the aggression was so bad. Once I introduced the five others, the aggression leveled out nicely. Still a lot of chasing going on, but what can you expect?


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## Marconi (Oct 7, 2013)

I think the black sand will definitely keep your sub-dominate males colours quite dark. Once you have a male fully mature, then the gravel or sand wont be a factor.

Here is a video of a my old Pombo Rock wild male (same fish different local). Video doesn't do him any justice but when I purchased him, he looked like a 4 inch female...no colour at all. I was really unsure of the sex as its nostrils developed a little blue with time and my other females had nothing. Turned out he was a full adult sub-dominant male...he stumped me, aswell as some other real knowledgeable cichlid keepers lol. So with yours....just be patient and they will all eventually mature  These are insanely aggressive fish but the colour is to hard for me to pass on.


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## eeztropheus (Jan 10, 2010)

IME the dominant male will be a total stunner beta males will show muted color and females stay brown for the most part... Awesome fish, I miss mine. Pics?


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## RedTop123 (Apr 19, 2014)

I just did a water change so the water doesn't look all too good, but here are some pics of the tank!
These guys are very camera shy and it's hard to take good shots lol. I threw in a pic of my Zodiac Loach for fun


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## RedTop123 (Apr 19, 2014)

Marconi said:


> I think the black sand will definitely keep your sub-dominate males colours quite dark. Once you have a male fully mature, then the gravel or sand wont be a factor.
> 
> Here is a video of a my old Pombo Rock wild male (same fish different local). Video doesn't do him any justice but when I purchased him, he looked like a 4 inch female...no colour at all. I was really unsure of the sex as its nostrils developed a little blue with time and my other females had nothing. Turned out he was a full adult sub-dominant male...he stumped me, aswell as some other real knowledgeable cichlid keepers lol. So with yours....just be patient and they will all eventually mature  These are insanely aggressive fish but the colour is to hard for me to pass on.


Beautiful fish you got there! They have lightened up since when I FIRST got them, they used to be really dark, because of the sand I'm guessing. But now they'e less gray/back and more gray/brown. I guess time will only tell


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## RedTop123 (Apr 19, 2014)

eeztropheus said:


> IME the dominant male will be a total stunner beta males will show muted color and females stay brown for the most part... Awesome fish, I miss mine. Pics?


I posted some pics. My dominant male, what appears to be my subdominant male, and the babies (some with their egg spots some without, if you can tell)

They were taken with a cell phone, so the quality isn't amazing. They're really camera shy!

Have you had any experience with the white lips? At first I thought it was some type of fungus around their mouths, but it isn't fuzzy or fluffy. They tend to turn white sometimes, then go back to color.


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## seattle_530 (Mar 6, 2007)

Awesome fish! I was very interested in them but I read about how nasty they can be so I shyed away. Great fish and tank you got there!


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## RedTop123 (Apr 19, 2014)

seattle_530 said:


> Awesome fish! I was very interested in them but I read about how nasty they can be so I shyed away. Great fish and tank you got there!


Yes, they are vvveeerrryyyyyy nasty when it comes to temperament. When I had them as just a pair, it was SO bad I was forced to find more and make a group. Now that the aggression has spread out a little they aren't TOO bad when compared to other mbuna, in my experience any way.

Thank you for the compliments! I worked very hard on it


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## RedTop123 (Apr 19, 2014)

Here are some more, a little more up close of the big guy. In the third one, if you look on the anal fin of the baby you can see a faint red egg spot. But no color!


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## eeztropheus (Jan 10, 2010)

I guess it's possible that the dark substrate will give them a darker appearance. As far as the white lips go that's from fighting...
Here is a pick if my dominant he was only 2" at this time you can see he looks much brighter...


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## RedTop123 (Apr 19, 2014)

eeztropheus said:


> I guess it's possible that the dark substrate will give them a darker appearance. As far as the white lips go that's from fighting...
> Here is a pick if my dominant he was only 2" at this time you can see he looks much brighter...


Oh wow! He's gorgeous. Your picture quality is much greater than mine, makes him look so good lol. Yeah, I've read that about the lips but some times the lip has color but there's still some white on them then other times they're all white. 
Any guess on the little ones?


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## miDnIghtEr20C (Aug 13, 2013)

Love the Orange Caps. You guys have some nice ones. Mine is still small. Here he is in a tussle with my Red Zebra.


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## RedTop123 (Apr 19, 2014)

Beautiful tank! Yeah these guys are feisty little fishes that's forsure


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## RedTop123 (Apr 19, 2014)

Best one yet!


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## miDnIghtEr20C (Aug 13, 2013)

Very nice looking! Good timing on that one.


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## RedTop123 (Apr 19, 2014)

Thank you very much!


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