# Starting shell dweller community tank(Lamprologus ocellatus)



## cichlidfan897 (Sep 24, 2006)

I am going to be taking down my 20 gallon planted tank soon, since I just don't have the time to babysit it anymore and it has caused me to much trouble lately. I want to start a less troublesome tank and do something a little easier. I have been brain storming and I think I would really like to do a shell dweller community tank and I was thinking of Lamprologus ocellatus in particular.

I have an empty 33 gallon tank and will be buying a fluvel 305 very soon. My water has ph 8 out of the tap so no need to fidel with the water parameters which is a big plus. I have a few question though.

1: How many pairs would be appropriate in a 33 gallon?

2: What are some good tank mates, particularly from the same region and non herbivorous?

3: Is a fluvel 305 enough filtration, or would a 405 be better?

4: Is it worth buying the water buffering sand for African tanks, especially since my PH is already 8? Can I just use regular sand?

5: I would like to keep some hardy plants in the tank, mainly just some anubis. Are Lamprologus ocellatus herbivorous?

6: Is Lamprologus ocellatus very hard to care for and are they very difficult to breed?

7: I am planning on running filter floss(obviously), some sort of bio media, carbon, ammonia remover will this be sufficient? I see some people like putting crushed sea shells in their media, but considering my PH level and the fact their will be shells in the tank, this doesn't seem necessary.

Sorry for all the questions but I have never kept african cichilids before, so this will be a change from taking care of south american. Although it seems my water parameters are ideal for the most part. I am going to go do some research in the meantime, any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

ill try to answer all your questions in order

1. what is the footprint of the tank? i would do maybe 1m/3f or 2m/6f.

2. if your going to make this a community tank i think paracyps are best fit. maybe a pair of smaller julies or a pair of caudopunctatus.

3. i never had a working fluval before, i cant answer this question

4.you can use any sand you like. i like play sand and pool filter sand the most. both really cheap and the colors good. occies love to dig so fine sand would be a better choice.

5. ocellatus will not eat the plants but they may dig them up if you dont tie the onto rocks.

6. *** had ocellatus 3times now(my 4th time now with black ocellatus) they tend to fight alot. and some die. i was very unlucky and i had 10 die on me. i had 5 one time and they all killed each other. second time same thing. 3rd time got a wild pair from a friend of mine. the male went mad and started to beat up the female. i paired them back up and they were really happy. but my male jumped out of the tank one day . they arent hard to breed once they start to. they shouldnt be that hard. just really aggressive.

7. no need for crushed shells in your tank.

im just hoping my black ocellatus wont kill each other. i have 3 left from 5. (maybe 5 is like my unlucky group number) but they have been fine for a month now. no real signs of aggression.


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

Yeah, I've never had good luck with occies. I had a 20g long and put 9 in there. Soon was down to 6 before I said that was enough and sold them.

I always use pool filter sand. It usually comes in the ghostly white color or a better off white / beige color. I try to avoid the white stuff. Looks too unnatural to me.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Good advice so far. :thumb: I had a hard time with stappersi, which are pretty similar to occies as far as behavior is concerned. If you are looking for less of a challenge, then consider multies or similis. They are less aggressive and form colonies that quickly populate a tank. There's plenty of soap-opera spats and chasing, but they rarely kill each other like occies.

Filtration: the more the better, but a 305 is great for a 33 gallon. I'd add a powerhead and prefilter to increase surface agitation though.

Sand: masonry or play sand is just fine. Special sands and cruched coral don't contribute to the long term buffering in a tank with pH 8 water.

Buffering: pH 8 isn't enough information to know whether you should use additives. Does your water stay at pH 8 even with organic acids and waste buildup? Fish and plants create acidity, and if your water is well buffered, the pH won't change. If your water isn't well buffered, your pH can drop quickly. So, get yourself a GH/KH test or see if your local store can test it for you. I use Epsom salt and baking soda to buffer my tanks. Also, make sure to use a tap water conditioner like Prime... these fish have low tolerance to chlorine/chloramine/heavy metals.

HTH!


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## VT4Me (Mar 23, 2008)

I used to have a 405 for 40 gallon which was heavily stocked with small Malawis. The Fluval canisters have great flow and the 305 will be more than enough for 33 gallons. I used to get plenty of surface agitation without the need for a powerhead by adjusting the position of the return on the surface.


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## cichlidfan897 (Sep 24, 2006)

@ Multies - The 33 I have is a typical 33 gallon, without measuring it I can safely say it is about 36" long, 12" wide and 18" high.

@ triscuit - On the whole buffering topic, I am not 100% what my PH, GH is. I have the appropriate test kits and I will test my water tonight or tomorrow and I will post the results. I know my water is very hard and has a high PH which will hopefully mean little to no buffering.

It's funny from what I have read so far on other websites, aggression has had little to no mention, yet the general experience here seems to be that they are quite aggressive. I am willing to try different shell dwellers if the Lamprologus ocellatus is too aggressive, but I am really interested in keeping shell dwellers though. I honestly wasn't bargaining on them being terribly aggressive, Is it mostly male on male aggression, or are the females also quite aggressive too? I understand that it is best to keep them in harems of one male and multiple females.

It's a weird idea, but when I kept German rams and dominant male started harassing the females too aggressively or beating up the other males, I would just put a mirror on one side of the tank and that would cut down allot on the stress since he spent most of the time fighting himself. I am not sure if this would work with shell dwellers, but I certainly was surprised with the results.

Thanks for all the advice and help so far.


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## chapman76 (Jun 30, 2004)

It was a male leading the aggression, but it wasn't limited to just males.

I wouldn't keep a mirror up long term honestly. It can stress the dominant fish out with time. It's a common trick with betas to keep them looking their best to put a mirror in front of them for short periods. At least that's what people told me and I've done it since.


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

you can try the ocellatus, just be sure to have a back up plan  
if not, what other kinds of shellies do you like?


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

One of my females beat the living fins out of at least 2 other smaller fish, so I wouldn't say it's just male aggression.

There are plenty of people who have had great luck with occies being peaceful... I am somewhat relieved from this thread that I'm not the only one who has had trouble. That being said though, if you are looking for a tank that will be less of a hassle, then go with a shelly that's less pugnacious.


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

lol, i have horrible luck :lol: 
i think 5 is my unlucky number


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## Aquasaur:) (Aug 23, 2008)

i had too bad luck qwith my occies, but now I ended up with 1m 4f and had fry once from them but they ate them


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## Longstocking (Aug 26, 2003)

I had bad luck with them untill.....

I put them in a larger tank and increased the numbers.

The best luck I have had with them was in a 4 foot tank. I had about 10 of them in there and they spawned continuously.... no damge to any of the fish and all were happy in a shell.

I really think in order to get these guys going you almost need to crowd them. In a 3 foot tank I would still try 8 or so. 2 foot tank maybe 6 or so. Make sure you have 2 males so they can bicker at each other and leave the females alone.

I kind of treat them like Tropheus  :wink: and have VERY good success that way.


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## cichlidfan897 (Sep 24, 2006)

Alright I tested my tap water and it is strangely softer and less alkaline then before, although it has been a long time since I actually tested the tap water. I will test again tomorrow from the same water to confirm and to observe any immediate changes. My PH was just barley 8 and my GH which used to be very hard is now barley moderately hard at 7 degrees. Stupid test kit, way to make a liar out of me! 

Will these water conditions be acceptable or will it be necessary to tinker with the chemistry to bring up the PH and GH?

@ chapman76 I never left the mirror in place for any length of time, just for short periods to allow the other fish a fleeting moment of peace and it seemed to work well.

@ Longstocking you sound like you have much experience so I will probably do as you say, plus I have always had better luck quelling aggression with numbers anyways. I think I will try and get 6 females and two males and hopefully I will get lucky.

I live in British Columbia and on the coast moon snail shells are quite common. I was just wondering if these would work, or if shell dwellers are terribly picky about their homes? They are large(about the size of an orange) typical looking snail shells, probably similar to Neothauma. Does it matter that they are not fresh water snail shells?

Thanks for all the help so far.


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

IME, shellies dont like really large shells.
the opening should be around an inch in diameter. make sure its not too spirled. 
i like escargot shells and whale eyes the best. light and big enough for the fish.

you will have a very difficult time sexing these fish. you wont be getting full adults(probably) 
and that white dorsal fin for females doesnt always work. even with wild fish.

Wild female- has white dorsal tip









Wild male- has white dorsal tip(not as much as the female but still has a white tip)









i actually thought of another reason why smaller shells are better. the shellies wont get stuck.
a smaller shell would mean they cant go all the way in, meaning they cant get stuck.

i had no troubles having a pair in a 5G.(monster male) mine actually did worse when i put them in a 3' tank.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Those water conditions are okay... there's some buffering there. When you set up the tank, get it cycled, and then get the fish, monitor the pH for a couple months to make sure it's not dropping. If you see fluctuations in pH, then increase the buffering by adding baking soda with your next water change. Stability is the key parameter here...

Also, changes in your tap water a pretty normal. The water treatment facility can drastically alter their methods depending on current conditions. They may suddenly dump a bunch of chloramine in one day with no notice because some of their bacterial cultures came back positive. Another time they may have failed some lead tests, and so add a strong base to bump up the pH... which can rapidly drop again in your tank. So, keep an eye on things but chances are you can get by with just a good tap water conditioner.

HTH!

oh yeah... those shells you mentioned sound way too big. check out cichlidbreeding.com for ideas on correct sized shells.


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## cichlidfan897 (Sep 24, 2006)

My test results where the lowest I have ever recorded as far as PH and GH are concerned, so I feel safe saying it probably won't get any lower than this. Having said that, I have previously tested the water many times and my GH and PH are usually a little higher. I will do as you say and monitor the situation and buffer with baking soda if need be, but I think all will be well and I am happy I probably won't need to tinker with the water chemistry much.

As for the shells I mentioned they come in a variety of sizes some the size of a wallnut and larger as I mentioned above. I only sited the largest as an example since I wasn't sure how large a shell they needed. Escargo shells seem to be the favored shell, so I will probably try and find some. I imagine the shells they sell for hermit crabs are probably suitable as well?

I think I have narrowed down my selection. I think I will get either Lamprologus' stappersii, Lamprologus' similis, Lamprologus' ocellatus (Gold) or 'Lamprologus' brevis (M'toto). I imagine from what has been said Lamprologus' similis is probably my best bet for a beginner, but I must say I prefer the appearance of stappersii and ocellatus. What are Lamprologus' brevis like?

Back to the tank mate suggestions, I see paracyps, julies and caudopunctatus have been mentioned. I am not sure what exactly these are, but I will go look in the profile section. In the meantime what are some other options? I imagine I probably don't want many bottom dwellers, more mid to top level dwellers so as to not crowd the shellies homes.

I was just at my LFS and they had a pair of Lamprologus' callipterus, I just checked the profile on this site and it said they get up to 6" so probably not what I am looking for. Purely out of curiosity, but does anyone keep these?

Thanks.


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## Multies (Mar 9, 2007)

brevis are usually really timid at first but they get more active later on. they seem to be very skittish in small tanks. once paired, they usually share a shell.

*** kept all 3 with shellies before and they seem to do fine. the paracyps were being bullied, but they can swim open water so its no problem.

this is my male









i never had a pic of my caudopunctatus(thanks to my sister who deleted all of them)

i think callipterus are really hard to find. the males get large while females are really small. you should watch jewel of the rift  *** never kept them becuase of lack of space(i wanted a large group) but i think a pair would be good.


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## PaintPeelinPbod (Jan 12, 2004)

Did you decide?

I have Brevis, have had them for going on 3 years now.

20gal long. I'm using crushed coral, which was a mistake, as its a bit heavy for these little fish. It also seems to attract more algae. I've got an open tank with a rock pile in the corner for some Melanochromis labrosus.

I got six at first, and lost one right off the bat. Then in a few months I had fry, and over the last couple of years I've had populations that ranged from 20+ and now they've settled at around 9. Basically the biggest males ate the fry (hungry bugggers).

I'll admit, I went through some periods where I was careless with the tank, but the fish kept on kicking. Really, they've dealt with quite a few drastic water changes, lots of stress, and now they've got some new tank mates that they won't leave alone. They have become really active, especially when I move around their shells. They'll spend days moving sand around and reestablishing their territory, and again, unlike other shell dwellers, this doesn't seem to stress them out.

I'm thinking of removing/selling some to allow for other fish to share the tank, but I'd think these guys would be very comfortable in a 70gal long or something bigger, even if they were with larger fish.


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