# Light vs. dark sand



## Blueflame 77 (Sep 12, 2008)

I have been reading the forums and might have missed this topic, but I will be switching from gravel to sand. Some believe the darker sand brings out the color of the fish better. I have yellow labs and some great acei fry I will be introducing when they are a little bigger.

Is darker sand better for the color of this two kinds of fish? I will also have some clown loaches as well. Right now I have prewashed play sand from Lowes which seems pretty light in color, but I have not put into the tank yet.

Also I would like the sand (or some other substrate) to keep my ph closer to a constant 8.2 since I have well water.


----------



## trigger (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, the effect on lighter or darker sand has also to do with the lighting and the fish you keep and most important, personal prefference. Some colors will stand more out with lighter sand, others benefit from darker sand. I take the middle road and just go for plain neutral natural looking sand 

Sand itself does nothing for your water values. If you want your substrate to buffer, you'd have to use crushed coral or something like that. But that will be white.

If you have a canister filter or sump, you could place your buffer stuff in there in stead. Because of the flow it would actually have more effect since more water will be in contact with the stuff.


----------



## julieduchromis (May 6, 2008)

I have regular beach sand in my troph tanks, and I have white in my leulupi tank which i ihad heard would bring out the yellow coloring in these fish but it didn't seem to make any difference. I also have a dark natural flint rock substrate in another tank which has assorted cichlids. All in all the color of the sand has not made much of a difference in how the fish color up, but the lighting has. I had normal florescent lighting at first which came stock with my setups, but recently I switched to a 50/50 lighting with Actinic Blue and it has made a large difference in the colors the leulupi display, which now more than ever before is yellow, where before was orange. I am not sure on yellow labs, but if they are anything like the lamp. leulupi the lighting might make a difference. 
I guess as far as my experience goes, the bottom of the tank should simulate the darkness/depth of which the fish live at naturally, which if they were frontosa would be dark because they like it dark as they live near the bottom of the oxygen layer in lake tanganyika. The 50/50 with acetinic blue lighting gives the tank a nice blueish glow without the blinding white light. The Fish seem to like it. :fish: :fish: :fish:


----------



## Blueflame 77 (Sep 12, 2008)

Thanks for your responses.

The sand I have from Lowes is Quikrete play sand #1113. I looked to see if it contains clay,but the bag doesn't give that kind of information. Nor does it say what "kind" of sand it is.
Also, I have read from others that pool filter sand is good and that silica sand is best(?). What is the difference between play, filter, silica sand? Personal preference again?

I have two HOB filters that I could put crushed coral or aragonite in. Which is better, the coral or aragonite? Does one buffer better than the other or is this personal preference?

And how much should I put in my filter so that it buffers properly for a 55 gal?

As for lighting, the Actinic Blue sounds interesting. How will the 50/50 ratio with "blueish glow" look with the purple/blue of the acei and the red of the clown loach?


----------



## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

If the play-sand is anything like what we get around here in Vegas it does contain some clay. I personally used the Washed Plaster Sand from Lowes and really like the way it turned out after cleaning. Not a whole lot of dirty suspension in it.

I also took a bottle of water with me to their bagged aggregates area. There's always some spilled sand laying around and I gathered it into small piles and added some of the water to it to see what it would look like in my tank. Sand can look a lot different when it's wet and of course look different under tank lighting.


----------



## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> The sand I have from Lowes is Quikrete play sand #1113. I looked to see if it contains clay,but the bag doesn't give that kind of information. Nor does it say what "kind" of sand it is.
> Also, I have read from others that pool filter sand is good and that silica sand is best(?). What is the difference between play, filter, silica sand? Personal preference again?


I picked up some play sand tried cleaning it and quickly gave up as the sizes of a lot of the grains were very small - having read enough about people having sand in their filters I moved on.

I called a pool place they said to just by the 20# silica sand - they didn't bother to stock pool sand as the silica sand was basically identical.

So, I ended up purchasing a 100lb bag (90gallon tank) of 20# (grit) silica sand for around $10 and spent probably too long cleaning it (about 2hrs) - beautiful day out so I didn't mind too much.

The silica sand has a larger more consistant grain and it is guaranteed to be silica.

I cleaned it by putting 3-4in in a 5 gallon bucket and aggitating it with my hand with the hose running into the bucket and let it overflow - I did this until the water was clear even with vigorous aggitation. Only the larger grains of sand were left - I dumped the clean sand in the tank and filled it. The water was crystal clear from the get go and cleaning the sand and turning it over cause zero cloudiness. A year later, I have never found sand in my filters or powerheads and have never had an issues with sand getting picked up too easily when cleaning.

All that being said, I think I am going T-Grade Black 3M Colorquartz for my next tank as I want to try a much darker background for Msobo, lil' Demons, and Yellow labs.



> As for lighting, the Actinic Blue sounds interesting. How will the 50/50 ratio with "blueish glow" look with the purple/blue of the acei and the red of the clown loach?


I changed to a Reef Sun 50/50 bulb a while back - the blues and yellows definitely pop. I do have Ps. Acei in the tank and they look great in the 'new light'.

As far as the red, it would be washed out a bit with the bulb I use - I have no real red fish in my tank - so red wasn't an issue in my choice. You can find wavelength profiles of the different bulbs and get the colors you want to highlight by picking the bulb with those wavelengths the strongest.

I do believe you do get more algea growth with the 50/50 bulbs - only possible downside I see other than cost.

Good Luck.

edit: 100lb bag not 10!


----------



## Blueflame 77 (Sep 12, 2008)

Hey GoofBoy- Thanks for the heads up regarding that play sand. Last night I washed a little of it so see what it was like and found the grains to be *very small* with inconsistent sizes. I believe I will try to find some #20 silica if I can find a pool supplier near me.

Changing lights might mean I will need to change from the clown loach to something more in the blue/yellow range. Any suggestions with acei (7 fry) and labs (6) in a 55 gal?


----------



## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Hey GoofBoy- Thanks for the heads up regarding that play sand. Last night I washed a little of it so see what it was like and found the grains to be very small with inconsistent sizes. I believe I will try to find some #20 silica if I can find a pool supplier near me.


I good Builders Supply place will have it as well. 20 grit silica sand is what you want.



> Changing lights might mean I will need to change from the clown loach to something more in the blue/yellow range. Any suggestions with acei (7 fry) and labs (6) in a 55 gal?


Or not, I would go to the LFS - if you have one and look at the bulb profiles, they are on the box, and see if anything hits orange as well. They are all different. also I would try the bulb with the loaches before dumping them.

If you were to look for yellow/blue I (being me) would seriously consider a group of peacocks Aulonocara stuartgranti (Usisya) or Aulonocara sp. "Stuartgranti Maleri" (Maleri Is.) come to mind, or just go with Copadichromis azureus for a striking blue showpiece as you already have yellow with the labs.

Having Acei and Yellow Labs - something else relatively peaceful would be the way I would go, and if you have never kept haps, I would try a group - very different experience than mbuna IMHO. Again, just me. I also like the 'boring' females, if eveything else in the tank is pooping color - the silver fish kind of stand out.

Good Luck. Please post pictures when done.


----------



## houstonhimself (Oct 20, 2006)

Blueflame 77 said:


> I have two HOB filters that I could put crushed coral or aragonite in. Which is better, the coral or aragonite? Does one buffer better than the other or is this personal preference?


Putting sand in your HOB filters would be a costly mistake, the sand will either clog the impeller and stop it completely or get in the shaft and act as an abrassive. When that happens the impeller rattles on the shaft and that is when your filter gets really noisy. If your tank is full of rocks (limestone is the best) than that should be all the buffer you need.


----------



## MIKENICK123 (Sep 27, 2008)

im not too sure about the lighting but one thing i do know is that YOU must REPLICATE the home of the cichlids... whether its Lake Malawi, Victoria, or Tanginikia..... soo using a DARK colored sand would not be the best choice if you want to make your cichlids feel at home ... going with a white to tannish sand would do best... try Eco-Complete sand substrate... Made Especially for High Alkalinity tanks..... soo i hope that this would help and i hope you dont mind my comments


----------



## Blueflame 77 (Sep 12, 2008)

I found a 50lb bag of #20 pool filter sand at a local pool supply store the last day they were open for the season. It does not say if it is silica or not, but the owner believed it to be. The size of the grains are consistent. It is a tannish color so meets MIKENICK123 suggestion-Thanks. I want to


> REPLICATE the home of the cichlids


and have been researching web sights which contains pictures from lake Malawi so I can create a tank that matches as much as possible. But I also believe most of the cichlids we obtain are not WC and have never seen what their original world would have looked like...They will most likely feel at home if there is adequate rock formations and good water quality. I have looked at Eco-Complete and have been trying to save money...Thanks for your comments...always welcome!

Also, houstonhimself, I know I have to be careful regarding sand in my HOB. Thanks for the warning though. I was talking about putting buffers in my filter pack for the emperor 280 (one of my filters). If I use crush coral, it should buffer the water without affecting my impellers. I will also raise my intakes and put a prefilter on them as well. I will be making some DIY rocks with portland cement and playsand to create a certain look I have found and will reveal when I have been able to post pictures after my tank is finished. The "look" comes from a web site that shows underwater pictures taken from trips taken to lake Malawi. I do not think the limestone will look the same in formation as the rocks I will be hopefully create like the pictures. But I do hope the crushed coral does the same thing as limestone.

GoofBoy, I have had both peacocks and haps. I tried to have an all male tank and ended up with a couple females that the males fought over. I ended up with hybrids which I left in the tank for natural food...I was thinking maybe mainganos...but if I have 7 acei, 6 labs, possible 4 loaches that may be a full load for a 55. When the acei mature, I might be able to separate some males if I can determine them so that I end up with one male and 4-5 females. Then I could add a third group but I do not want to overload my bio-load.


----------



## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> GoofBoy, I have had both peacocks and haps. I tried to have an all male tank and ended up with a couple females that the males fought over. I ended up with hybrids which I left in the tank for natural food...I was thinking maybe mainganos...but if I have 7 acei, 6 labs, possible 4 loaches that may be a full load for a 55. When the acei mature, I might be able to separate some males if I can determine them so that I end up with one male and 4-5 females. Then I could add a third group but I do not want to overload my bio-load.


The suggestion of hap/peacock or anything else was only meant if the loaches were going - I agree with the tank being full if you keep all you have right now.

The Acei males will be very easy to tell apart in time - they get signifigantly larger than the girls - at least mine is.

I have been thinking about trying mainganos myself, nice choice :thumb:.

Good Luck.


----------



## julieduchromis (May 6, 2008)

This is my opinion, and only based on observation; but I have used the play sand in my troph's tanks and I found it to be very fine sand. A little hard to clean because it always wants to wash away, but in context with the troph's. and correct me if you think this is wrong, but I believe that tropheus need some roughage in their diet just the same way that chickens need grit. I have observed mine when they are done eating the floating food particles, go down to the sand and begin to sift through it. I believe that it serves the same purpose as the silt covered rocks to in the lake do, which is to aide in their digestion. And I have 30 troph's in a 90 gallon with plenty of rocks, some of which block their vision from each other. Mine began to spawn at 3" which I thought was a bit premature but alot of my fish have done this. I also keep pseudotropheus long pelvic fin and they are one of my favorites, the females also spawned at about 3". I breed and keep: Julie's: transcriptus, marleri, and regani. Neolamp leulupi, Eniantopus Melanogynus, Black calvus, bloodred peacocks, Alhi, and some Haps. and Tropheus.


----------



## Blueflame 77 (Sep 12, 2008)

julieduchromis, good observation and theory. I wouldn't know, never having sand before. I would have thought they were looking for more food particles. I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has observed this behavior to the point that it appears they are eating the sand for the purpose of roughage. I thought the high veggie content of the food we feed them would provide that. I will be using #20 silica for substrate and the play sand for DIY rocks.

I can't wait to see how my acei and labs start acting with sand. Still not sure if I want to add more clown loaches (I have only one left-I know they need more and would want to add at least 3 more) or go with something else. The clown loaches are fun to watch and they do very well finding any food that has made it to the bottom. But having fish breed is also exciting.


----------



## zazz (Apr 5, 2008)

i use filter sand and it seems to be very dense...so if it gets blown up into the water it sinks straight away so that the filter intakes just cannot suck it up.


----------



## safireeyz (Apr 30, 2008)

do you think that sand is easier to clean than gravel??


----------



## ercnan (Aug 13, 2006)

I had sand (general purpose Quickrete) for some time and liked the look.
Went back to gravel since I got tired of replacing parts on my HOB's to keep them quiet Impellers, shafts, etc.
Don't really like the look as much, and the Geo. is honked, but it's cheaper in the long run for me.
The canisters were not a problem as much, since the impeller is "last in line" and the sand gets trapped in the pads before any damage.

I found the, available around here, "Pool filter" and "Play sands" to be too bright for my taste.
General purpose is filthy, but I liked the darker color.


----------



## ercnan (Aug 13, 2006)

safireeyz said:


> do you think that sand is easier to clean than gravel??


In my experience, no.


----------



## Blueflame 77 (Sep 12, 2008)

Thanks zazz, that sounds hopeful for less trouble for my HOB. I raised my intakes though for extra precaution and I will make sure the filters are off when I clean.

And since we all have to clean, whether gravel or sand, taking the precautions and liking the looks of sand, I will still go with the #20 silica and hopefully never have to worry about my impellers, etc. esp using a prefilter on my intakes.

The videos on this great web site for cleaning sand in the tank make it look easy enough. I have read other posts regarding cleaning sand and most are very positive that it can be done effectively and that it is not too hard, just different than cleaning gravel. You keep 1/2 to 1" above the sand. Some people even mention ways to catch any sand that might be picked up so you can recover it.


----------

