# Pop-eye and fat - probably bloat..



## ranchialex (Dec 4, 2011)

Hi! I'll give you the timeline.

3 days ago I notice one (I think female) acei ngara looks fat. I maybe she's about to pop eggs (since she's getting a lot of attention from a colored up ngara male) but just in case I start reading up (again) on bloat.

2 days ago I come home in the evening and she her eyes totally popped.. well not totally popped - still attached and looking around - but definitely has pop-eye. I yanked her out and put her into a bucket (hospital/fry tank is filled with fry) with a sponge filter.

I'm in India and don't have access to Clout or other medicine. I will buy some in 2 weeks when I return home to the US, but for now my only treatment options seem to be rock salt. I dosed both the bucket and display tank with some salt.

Yesterday she continued to swim around the bucket, showing lots of energy and actually looking pretty happy (pop-eye is sort of cute, in a scary, cartoony, way) but I've tried twice to drop a single piece of food and she doesn't eat it.

Today same thing - she's swimming energetically, but still fat and eyes are still popped. I did a half-water change in the bucket last night but didn't re-dose salt. Also, I notice one smaller fish with white, thin (thread-like) feces. It's eating (they're all eating after I made them fast all of yesterday) but not a good sign.

I keep expecting the ngara to be dead one time when I look in the bucket - but she always surprises me with energetic swimming and liveliness. At what point do I start looking for a second diagnosis or... just wait it out? Anything I should be doing differently?

I'll test my display tank water parameters tonight, but they've always been good (0, 0, 20-30) and I just did a 40% water change when I discovered the pop-eye.

Input appreciated.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Bloat link in my signature. Sorry for the short reply, off to work.


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## ranchialex (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks, read it thrice, and thanks again


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Hi Alex, Sorry not getting the time these days to come often to the forum. Busy with another project.

Anyways, I will not argue about the cause, whether its bloat or something else. I just found it amusing when you mentioned that you dont have access to other medicines for bloat. Dear Friend, you are really not researching, not at all. The comment you posted is far, very far from the truth.

If you read up any article on Bloat, you will find that the 1st stage medicine is Epsom salt. The 2nd stage is "Metro". Clout works but many hobbyist are loathe to using it, its pretty strong. Infact, more often than not, Metro is more than sufficient to cure bloat, provided the diagnosis is correct and early. If too late, even Clout wont help.

Next, you needed to know what the **** is this *Metro* ? Metro is just a branded name given by the company selling it. It is basically Metrozinadole, the ingredient. There are several if not many brands of Metrozinadole available in India. Ex. *Flagyl - 400 (from Glaxo), Metrogyl - 400* etc. You just needed to research a bit and find out the active ingredient for Metro. Instead, you made it appear that even the most basic medicine like Metrozinadole isnt available in the country you live and there is no medicine available. Yes, pre-packed medicines for fish may not be always available but the medicine is widely available.

Hope this helps. Adios.


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## ranchialex (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks. When I said the medication isn't available, I only meant at the 13 LFSs in my city, not a single one would know what bloat is or have any medicine of any of the brands mentioned in the article. If 'Metro' is a common human medicine, then I'll try to get it. It honestly never occurred to look for rebranded Malawi bloat medication in a human drug store. I wouldn't call this lack of research, but simple ignorance and the fact that there is basically 1 medicine available that's made for fish: copper-based anti ICH blue dye. There's also anti-chlorine treatment.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

LOL atleast I could be of some help to you. And the good part is that, unlike in many western countries, you dont need a prescription to purchase most medicines here.

Ick guard by Rid-all, i have heard works well. You will also get the medicines for Ick by API (I have it), and several other brands like Furan-2 etc in Kolkata. Sometimes, however the shops wont stock it for long. The only medicine, I couldnt get as of now are :
1. Kanamycin. I got the IV liquid for syringe but not the powder tablet form.
2. Furacin

BTW Kanamycin i believe is banned in India. You will also get all the triple sulpha drugs etc.
Cheers.


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## Gags (Mar 23, 2012)

hey alex you can get Metronidazole Composition tables in india 
http://www.medlineindia.com/alimentary_ ... dazole.htm
You might have read already but again i am post it 
From Malawi Bloat article 


> Metronidazole dosed in the water: Perform a 30-40% water change, vacuum, remove any chemical filtration and add 2 tablespoons of Epsom salt for every ten gallons of water, pre-mixed and added gradually over a period of 5-6 hours. Add 250mg metronidazole for every 10 gallons daily for 5-10 days with each dosage preceded by a 30-40% water change. If after 5 treatments you've noticed an improvement as well as a bowel movement, attempt feeding metro treated food, otherwise, wait 24 hours and begin treatment again, starting with a 30% water change. Remove any uneaten food after 5-10 minutes. If eating and bowel movements return to normal, continue the metro treated food for a further 3 days with water changes before each feeding.
> 
> Note: this dosage is stronger than what some manufacturers recommend for their product and therefore you may choose to go with what the package recommends, however many aquarists have not only found the above dosage safe and effective but have chosen to go with an even stronger dosage when dealing with bloat.2


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## ranchialex (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks my Indian friends 

I went to our local chemist (50m away) and he glanced for a sec and knew what to get. They had the childrens' dose in a couch syrup and adult tablets. While liquid would have been conveinent, the additives were a bad idea.

Tablets were a rather shocking $0.006 each (Rs. 13 for 40). Guess I'll get to crushing some powder.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Alex, everytime you post in C-F that you are gonna run to the US because you arent getting something here locally, makes me login (unwillingly, LOL) here in CF and give a reply, so that it saves you some $$$$$. And everytime I reply to your queries, I feel I have aged by 2 years. And now, its retirement time, I believe. *Feeling really old and haggard*. LOL. :fish:

But who's gonna solve my problems and I have just one !!!! Anyways, *gonna charge you the next time for the consultancy*.

BTW cant understand this 'Malawi Bloat' i often see mentioned here & there. Is there a 'Tanganyikan Bloat' too ?? I thought its just Bloat which afflicts many cichlids, more so the Tanganyikans. And the treatment too is the same. I have changed over my remaining tank from a Malawi one and now all my tanks are Tangs. This Bloat stuff really scared me when I put in my Tropheus. Well, thankfully I survived that scare with some innovative methodology :dancing: :dancing:

PS - The full dose for Metro is 5 days. Do not overdose !!! Gonna charge you again - $100 and the meter is ticking, Alex.


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## ranchialex (Dec 4, 2011)

Yeah I've read that it's called Malawi bloat, but the same thing affects all african cichlids, so you're not wrong about that.

Saved a lot of money - those things were almost free


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Its just Bloat my dear friend. Thankfully, you have just Malawi's & not Tangs !!! I never had any problems when I kept Malawians and I used to really feed them HEAVY each time. Now, with the Tropheus Bembas, I keep counting the pellets, LOL.

And Alex, your bills is already $100+ and counting .......


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## ranchialex (Dec 4, 2011)

Hey I've got a couple cans of NLS waiting for you 

Well, they're waiting in America, but I'll bring 'em back. If you dont' want 'em no prob, I'll use 'em.


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## Fishy_Cichlid (Aug 4, 2011)

Alex $100 and still counting. Get those NLS stuff for me, store credit ... oops consultancy credit.


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## ranchialex (Dec 4, 2011)

So just to give an update - I found the meds, ground it up and dosed the bucket and tank once and then got a bit too busy in life to continue on the regiment... yet after 2 days the bloated fish looked much more normal - I put him back in the main tank and now 4-5 days later he's nearly normal - 80% normal appearance and eating normally. I saw the other 2 acei ngara breeding furiously (circling with visible eggs for 3-4 minutes) and he was off on the other side of the tank.

I did get one alarming nitrate reading (80ish) and did a 50% water change and another 30% after that, seems to have leveled out. I don't know why I thought I could add 14 mbuna (albiet small demasoni) and not think I'd need to change my water changing regiment. Ammonia and nitrite are 0.

I also had a canister filter failure, but I have 3 other filters going in the tank. I'm planning to do a big tear-down and remove all non-Malwali's from my tank (and some fry removal) before I make my annual trip to the US in 6 days. I'll probably come back with an FX-5. Then I'll pull a couple of my internal filters and just keep the top filter (like HOB) and FX-5.


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