# Stressed out geophagus red heads



## azman_ (Dec 10, 2011)

Hi

Seeking advice with experienced geo red head keepers.

Mine are showing what I think are signs of stress - stress bars, rubbing against sandy substrate, huddling in the same corner.

Anyone have any advice? water changes done biweekly at 30%. I have lost one small geo to unknown causes, in fact I couldn't find the body. Tank is a 4x2x2, 6 geos, 4 of which are around 8 cm long and the remaining two around 5 cm. Fed on frozen bloodworms, cichlid pellets. *** reduced the heater by 2 degrees to 26 degrees.

Thanks


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

What are the water parameters? ammonia, nitrates, nitrites in particular will stress a fish out.

Where is the tank? Too much traffic outside the tank could freak out the fish and stress them out.

By bi-weekly do you mean twice-weekly? If not, you should be doing at least weekly 25-50% depending on your stocking list.

Are there any dithers with the geos? A school of tetras, I find, usually helps bring shy fish out of hiding.

What else is with them? They could be stressed from over-aggressive tankmates.

And lighting too I think... If the light is way too bright that could also be a cause for stress.

Sorry for the barrage of questions; just trying to narrow down the cause of their stress, so that it can be fixed.


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## azman_ (Dec 10, 2011)

What are the water parameters? ammonia, nitrates, nitrites in particular will stress a fish out.

Not sure about ammonia and nitrites but nitrates is 0 ppm.

Where is the tank? Too much traffic outside the tank could freak out the fish and stress them out.

The tank is setup in the lounge/kitchen as a room divider. So there is a fair bit of traffic, however the rest of the fish are getting less shy and come to the glass if someone passes. Even that, the fish I think that isn't well sits in a sand depression right next to the glass in the open and isnt phased by ppl walking past at all.

By bi-weekly do you mean twice-weekly? If not, you should be doing at least weekly 25-50% depending on your stocking list.

Yes two times weekly.

Are there any dithers with the geos? A school of tetras, I find, usually helps bring shy fish out of hiding.

No, I've been considering a school of dither fish but atm its just the 6 geos.

What else is with them? They could be stressed from over-aggressive tankmates.

And lighting too I think... If the light is way too bright that could also be a cause for stress.

Lighting is 2x T8 not sure about wattage.

Also, when feeding comes he is quite active. As soon as he's done it's back to sitting in his sandpit again.

I've also noticed that the grey stripes on him have darkened. In all the pics of geos I've seen on the net they are all light coloured.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

Are the stripes there all day? I know that when I turn on the lights, the sudden brightness freaks my fish out a bit, and my angels and rams show their stress marks for half an hour or so. If they are mostly at one location, and don't wander far from it, they may be guarding eggs. Or perhaps one of them, or a pair, is bullying the rest? You should also check them carefully for parasites, as, in this case, that would probably be the most likely cause.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

azman_ said:


> Not sure about ammonia and nitrites but nitrates is 0 ppm.


How long has the tank been set up? Did you cycle it before adding fish? 0 nitrates is very unusualÃ¢â‚¬Â¦unless it's a heavily planted tank with fast growing plants.

If it's not heavily planted, I would get a test kit and check the ammonia and nitrites.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I completely missed that...


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

The other possibility is that the test kit you have did not give an accurate result with the 0 nitrate reading.


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## azman_ (Dec 10, 2011)

Zimmy that's a really good point. Tank was set up for about 2 weeks prior to fish being introduced. The cannister is from an established tank and didn't clean it out for this tank - keep all the bacteria etc.

Tank has about 6 pots of thin vallis plants.

When I get home I'll measure nitrites and ammonia.

Thanks


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Let us know what readings you get.

If the tank was not fully cycled it would have stressed out the Geos as they were introduced to the tank. The missing dead geo might also have caused an ammonia spike (and maybe still be contributing to one). It would be good to do another search for it.

The good news is that it sounds like you have a pretty small bioload in your tank. The vals are also a good plant for helping to use up nitrates (as well as ammonia and nitrites).


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## azman_ (Dec 10, 2011)

Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrites 0 ppm
Nitrates 0 ppm

Still can't find the dead geo, though there wouldn't be much left now.

Here's an interesting observation as a new geo keeper. The 'sick' geo of which I'm unsure of the sex, has dug out a hole in the sand and sits in it all day long. All geo's are decreasingly shy as time goes on. No sign of any eggs.

Interesting...


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## azman_ (Dec 10, 2011)

Thought I'd add some pics.



This is the hole they dug in one day. Can stick a whole fish in there.



FTS. Tried to make it as riverine as possible. They always hang around as a group on the sandy area to the left, foot of the tank.



Definetely not shy 





The last one shows why I thought the fish was sick (the one sitting in the hole). What does this sort of behaviour indicate?


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## clgkag (Mar 22, 2008)

I would get a new test kit. Very unusual to get zeros across the board.


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## neutrino (May 4, 2007)

The bars will come and go with mood but it's not at all normal for these fish just to sit around ime. They should be pretty active, cruising around the tank, sifting the sand for food, interacting with each other, etc. The clamped fins is also a signal something's off-- and from the photo that looks like either a sick or stressed fish. Have you checked your filter(s) for the dead one? A decaying fish is really bad for water quality and can spread pathogens even if your ammonia/nitrite is ok.

Zero nitrate is not normal if your tank is cycling (processing ammonia), especially considering you transferred an established filter. The formula is this: Fish produce ammonia, which is also produced by waste collected in your filter and substrate-- or by other organic material decaying in your tank. One type of oxygen dependent bacteria that attach to various surfaces processes ammonia into nitrite. Another type of oxygen dependent bacteria that attach to surfaces processes nitrite into nitrate. You remove nitrate with water changes.

In other words, unless you have special conditions in your tank that remove nitrate (lots of plants, special filtration or media, specially balanced deep sand bed, etc.), you should always see _some _nitrate if your tank is cycling normally.


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## BelieveInBlue (Jul 17, 2011)

I believe those bars are just signs of stress, similar to what bolivian rams show when you spook them. They'll fade with time. Are those plants real? If so, they may explain the zero nitrates. They look like vallisneria from the FTS, and vals are very fast growing plants; in a large tank with such a low stocking list, the vals most likely absorb the nitrates as they're produced. I have no explanation for the geo that dug a hole and sat in it; usually hole digging leads to spawning, but there is no mate and no defending of the spawn site, as well as no eggs/fry, so I'm not too sure about what's going on there. It could have been just a rogue that was not so healthy. Keep an eye on your other fish; if it was only that one fish doing that, then it's probably not a huge deal.


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi *azman_*,

You have a great looking tank, well done on the decorations.

Thanks,
Matt


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## neutrino (May 4, 2007)

The bars do a lot more than indicate stress. There's a lot more subtlety to them, since with a lot of fish they're basically a form of visual communication and can also be used to blend into the environment. On many cichlids they should more accurately be called mood bars. In fact, sometimes stress will make the bars fade. From what I've seen with OH tapajos the bars are quite normal for juvies and less prominent on adults, though adults will still display them according to mood. They can also be used as camouflage; once the tank goes dark at night, I've observed their bodies get dark and the bars even darker. Again, all very similar to a lot of other cichlids.

When everything's right, though, they're an active fish from what I've seen, cruising the tank, sifting sand looking for food, etc Just hanging together at one end of the tank most of the time or just sitting on the sand is not normal, imo it's telling you something is off.


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## djm761 (May 23, 2011)

how long have you had the fish, where did they come from, this could be a problem with water chemistry and the fish not adapting well.

I recently ordered 10 coreys from Florida, I live in Wisconsin, it took them more than three weeks to adjust I lost 2 and I may loose 1 more, the other 7 are looking great.


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## azman_ (Dec 10, 2011)

Unfortunately the fish died. I bought some medicine for ich because they were 'scratching' themselves on hard surfaces. I also turned up the temp up from 27 to 28 degrees at the lfs's advice. All other fish are doing great. Two of the bigger adult geos swim together although I can't sex them well enough to see if they could be a pair. I might add that the bars on the rest of the fish come and go, are less shy and even troll around my syphon while doing changes.

Bought some rainbow cichlids too, 6 of them, very active, strong yellow colours which weren't seen at the lfs.

On the note of behaviours, my rainbow cichlids seem to be sucking the same rock and do some 'shivering'. Along with some other interesting behaviour I can't really explain in words.

Thanks for the advice along the way. It's really good to see what other people have experienced with geo's, not just for myself but fellow geo keepers.


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## azman_ (Dec 10, 2011)

I went to see how the fish were going when I discovered this.



And the geo's came to have breakfast.





Less than 1 day in the tank, spawning!


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