# 210g Planted Tank Stocking



## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

Hi folks, I used to be a regular here, but sort of disappeared for a few years there. :zz: Anyways, I'm upgrading my 75g planted tank to a 210g (72"x24"x30") and am looking to add more peaceful medium or larger cichlids (nothing dwarf, no apistos, etc.) that would live in harmony with my current stocking - 30 Red Eyed Tetras, 6 Congo Tetras, 4 Angels, 2 Keyholes - are plant-safe, and do not disturb the substrate too much. Filtration is: Eheim 2260, Fluval FX5, Rena XP3. 
*
I'm thinking of adding two more angels, two more keyholes and.....??? Halp! Festivums have crossed my mind. Other ideas?*

I'll set up the 210g in late September, but here are some pics of my current 75g for some photos. opcorn: 









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3/4


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## TexasFishGuy (Aug 20, 2010)

I don't have any suggestions...just wanted to say that is a beautiful tank! :thumb:


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Agreed! I wish I could do that.... I have one live plant... and it's barely live LOL


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks guys. :thumb: A planted tank is like anything in life: use the proper tools and techniques and have the appropriate knowledge, diligence, and patience.

Back on topic though, I'm also considering L. curviceps/dorsigera - I quite liked the dorsigera pair I kept in the past, and they had amazing breeding coloration.

Is there anything else I'm missing that is plant safe and 4" or more? 
Are there any acara that are plant-safe? 
Are firemouths a bad idea with Angels and plants? 
I should mention I have no interest in keeping discus.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I would definately NOT add firemouths...


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## sherlock98 (Sep 9, 2006)

Fishguy, could you please expand on your "no firemouth" statement. I was also considering them with angels and from what I have heard is that they are a "mellow" cichlid.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Not every FM is mellow, they all differ in levels of aggression and to me wouldn't be worth the risk


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

TheFishGuy said:


> I would definately NOT add firemouths...





TheFishGuy said:


> Not every FM is mellow, they all differ in levels of aggression and to me wouldn't be worth the risk


So, definitely maybe?


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## DeadFishFloating (Oct 9, 2007)

I agree with *TheFishGuy*, no Firemouths. I would think any of the larger acara species may view tetras as potential snacks on the fin.

Becuase you said no dwarves, I didn't mention any of the Laetacara species. Seriously though, by not wanting dwarves, you remove some of the best planted tank SA cichlids from your options. Blue rams, Dicrossus species, dwarf acaras and yes apistos. If you can find them, 
Laetacara araguaiae (ex sp. buckelkopf) would be the first cichlid I'd look to add.


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

Wow, Laetacara araguaiae look sweet. I'll look into those more. I've kept a few species of apistos in the past as well as Bolivian Rams, as I've had lots of smaller setups over the years. I just want to try something new is all, if possible, especially because this is my first big tank... big tank, big fish, you know. 

I suppose what are considered dwarves and what aren't is arbitrary. Laetacara are several times the mass of any apisto I've ever seen... and are much closer in size to Keyholes, which aren't generally considered dwarf cichlids.  Drawing a line in the sand.

I've never kept larger Acaras, but I assume they aren't plant safe. In fact, I just heard the same on another forum about Festivums too, unfortunately. My red-eyes are 2+" and pretty fat bodied (about the mass of 4 cardinals) and the congos are about 3-4" if that matters any, I don't know how big Acaras' mouths get.


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## ahud (Aug 22, 2009)

I'm interested in this post. I'm doing the same thing except its a 125g with 35 black skirt tetras.

Back on subject, I have not been able to find any larger SA cichlids that do not harm you plants via digging.


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## HONDO (May 4, 2008)

If you are looking for a big fish that would probably ok with your stock, I think Chocolate cichlids are one of the best period. I have one with Keyholes and no problems. I think in a tank that large, if you stick with 4 angels, should be no problems.

It could possibly take a second glance at your tetras, but if yours are a decent size and you get a baby Chocolate, I think you would be fine.

My Chocolate doesnt touch my plants... he does love having them in the tank though. I have heard of them grazing on plants, but I dont think its an issue.

You have a beautiful tank.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

HONDO said:


> If you are looking for a big fish that would probably ok with your stock, I think Chocolate cichlids are one of the best period. I have one with Keyholes and no problems. I think in a tank that large, if you stick with 4 angels, should be no problems.
> 
> It could possibly take a second glance at your tetras, but if yours are a decent size and you get a baby Chocolate, I think you would be fine.
> 
> ...


Agreed!


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

Festivums are cool but temperament varies by individual. I have a super aggressive one that keeps my Severums in line and only backs down to my Uaru because he is so much bigger. He also enjoys romaine lettuce and corn, so he may not be safe in a planted tank.

Years ago I had a Festivum which would shred the fins of my Angels.

Mike


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks guys. Chocolates seem and look neat. It's like a tamed Oscar with the predation strategy of an Arowana. 

While it would limit my plant options somewhat, I'm still tempted to get a group of Satanopercas...


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

I kept Rotkiels (Severums) in a planted tank with no problems - mind you my plants were all hardy, easy to care for plants like Anubias, Java Fern, Valisnaria etc.

Severums may eat your tetras - but you run that risk with Angels and Keyholes as well...

I've currently got a 75g (with Keyholes & Tetras) and I'm wrestling with the decision of either adding Angels or a Chocolate cichlid. There are two chocolates in a LFS near me that are just gorgeous looking - but my father-in-law has a confirmed pair of false altums (peruvian scalare?) he's said he would give to me so I don't know what to do... With a 210 you can do it all!


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

Not all tetras are created equal, and I think people are underestimating the size of Red-Eyed Tetras. They are 2" long, about 3/4" tall, and very fat as well. The Congos are even bigger - about the same length as Keyholes, but not as thick or tall. I can see my Angels eating neons and cardinals no problem. Red-Eyes? No way. And Keyholes eating them? Absolutely no way. I would worry about severums and chocolate cichlids eating the red-eyes though.

If I were you illy-d, I'd go with the proven pair of angels. What kind of tetras do you have with your keyholes?


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

Is this unusual looking puffer plant-safe?


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

Lucky me, an LFS had these three guys in stock. I've never seen them locally.










Lone wolf:


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Hey macclellan - I agree about tetra size & shape making a difference. Taller bodied tetras (serpae) did not appear to interest my keyholes as a snack... My rummies & neons did.

However that was back in my early days of fish keeping and I believe I know what my critical error was - I had mature Keyholes (a pair + 2 other males), and 2 Festivums in a 48g (48" long) tank... I tried introducing neons & rummies after the fact and it turned into a catch & kill buffet (I even caught a festivum with the ass end of a rummynose hanging out of his mouth once). The keyhole pair was vicious. As soon as I turned out the lights they would stalk the tetras. I watched them cripple them with a nip on the tail before quickly picking off the eyeballs.

Currently I've taken a different strategy... I set-up my tank with two large schools of Cardinals and Rummy nose (this tank is a 75g) long before introducing very small keyholes... In fact when I added the first batch of keyholes (4) they were smaller than the smallest of cardinals (TL on the keyholes was about 1 cm, or the size of a dime). Growing up with the tetras seems to have made a difference as I haven't witnessed any hunting from the keyholes (this isn't to say it isn't happening though).

On a related note one of the rummy nose tetras that survived the "Keyhole massacre of 2000" is still with me today - making it at least 10 years old. It's the biggest rummynose I've ever seen - easily more than 2" in length and very thick (for a rummynose). It's not twice the length, but it's at least twice the mass of every other Rummy in my tank.

Nice score with the Festivums - they are an inquisitive fish that should mix well with your stocking. I'm envious...


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

Yeah, my keyholes plowed through about 20 neons over the period of a few weeks when I had them in a 30L


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Since you already have congo tetras, why not consider _Pelvicachromis taeniatus_? While considered a dwarf (3.5-4" males), they are very colorful, more peaceful than kribs, and limit digging to their spawning caves.

BTW ... most dwarf books consider dwarf cichlids to be those with males under the 4.5" mark. Which is why keyholes aren't considered dwarves while kribs are.


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestion. There are lots of neat African riverine fish (I've kept Kribs and _Anomalochromis thomasi_ too), but I'd rather stick close to the SA theme and use species I haven't kept before and are available locally.


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

Well, the festivums are clearly *not* going to work. I've noticed lots of new holes in large-leaved cryptorynes, echinodoruses, and even apongetons (and no, they aren't due to nutrient deficencies, that's impossible in my system, and the edges of holes from nutrient deficencies look different than those caused by eating). I've been spying on the them, and saw a festivum very deliberately take a big chunk out of a leaf yesterday. Note that I've been feeding them a lot - a mix of flake, pellets, spirulina brine, and even some poached squash - and it hasn't curbed their appetite for vegetation. Back to the LFS they go... Drats!


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## macclellan (Nov 30, 2006)

I'll read up on geos and satanopercas some more.

I could always keep bolivian rams again... those are fun. just so small in this tank.


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