# Mbuna Pic N' Mix.......



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi,
I've been hammering the Mbuna profiles section to find a selection for my tank & have a couple of questions...

Do I need to have either all aggressive or non aggressive fish to keep a blance in my tank? (assuming aggressive fish will pick on non-aggressive).

If I use the "Search by species characteristics tool" I can select mbuna's of the same temperment,water hardness & diet etc, which gives me 100's of results....

I am aware that I shouldn't mix fish which look similar bacause of cross breeding but what else should & take into account - like mixing fish of the same "scientific name"?

EG: Cynotilapia afra (Cobue) & Cynotilapia afra (Chewere), both afra's different colours - or is it down to the fact they have similar markings?

















Thanks, 
Stuart


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

> I am aware that I shouldn't mix fish which look similar bacause of cross breeding but what else should & take into account - like mixing fish of the same "scientific name"?


Correct. Not a good idea to mix two extremely related species (in this case one could even argue that they are two subspecies or variants of the same species).

There are a few reasons for this:
1) The males probably look similar enough that they will see each other as competitors for females. Result is agression between the males.
2) The females probably look similar enough that males from either species or subspecies will try to mate with either group interchangeably.
3) If you're interested in distributing fry, it will be impossible to tell which fry are hybrids and which are pure.

In your example, you post pictures of the males, but try looking at the females from each. I know I couldn't tell them apart!


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They are both cynos and both blue barred fish. I wouldn't do it.

I do mix cyno sp hara and demasoni. But the hara are almost white and the demasoni are almost black. I wouldn't come any closer in appearance than that.


----------



## GoofBoy (Jul 3, 2007)

> Do I need to have either all aggressive or non aggressive fish to keep a blance in my tank?


Yes and no, note the Temperament v. Conspecific Temperament - some species will pretty much only beat on each other, Pseudotropheus demasoni comes to mind as an extreme example, a lot of more peaceful mbuna will do just fine as long as they are NOT blue barred. And other species will be holy terrors in the tank with anything in the same confined space - Melanochromis auratus and Metriaclima lombardoi come to mind, where every fish in the tank better be prepared to go to war if necessary - in this tank milder species _may_ not work out as well, the more aggressive you go the more hit and miss it will be - highly aggressive you really want a 6ft tank or better for the best chance of success.

If trying mbuna for the first time I would seriously consider avoiding anything that is highly aggressive (or Extremely aggressive), because they are not kidding - please read 'odds are good that there will be some dead fish unless you really know what you are doing and are on top of it' when this is mentioned.

Also, some fish (C. Afra Cobue ,a Ps. Polit come to mind) may not color up and look like their pictures if they do not feel like top dog in the tank.



> I am aware that I shouldn't mix fish which look similar bacause of cross breeding but what else should & take into account - like mixing fish of the same "scientific name"?


As stated - the warring factor is the biggest issue (to me at least). Picking different names e.g. Metriaclima, Cynotilapia, is a good start (except Pseudotropheus is a catch all so ignore for that name), but most important is the not looking alike recommendation.

If you narrow down a list of fish you like the looks of, the board can help you on what has the best chance of success among those species.

Good Luck.


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi Thanks everyone, I'll read through these post over & over to get to grips with it.

So a good starting point for me would be to use the search tool to select the water hardness which my tap water is as standard, then select fish that are peaceful/mildly aggressive towards other species (as I cant mix the species together) & see what results I can find that don't look similar to each other?

This is what I'd come up with so far using the cookie cutter & posting in the forum.... 
*
Labidochromis Caeruleus* - http://www.cichlid--forum.com/profiles/ ... php?id=713









*
Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Msuli)* - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... p?id=1460/










I was then toying with the idea of *Pseudotropheus Saulosi *- http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1 , but was warned about the male yellow lab hybrdizing with the Saulosi females










& as a 4th species I was recommended* Melanochromis maingano*, as there striped patterns don't match those of the Saulosi's










I think the 1st 2 are a good starting point for the tank as the colours are a good contrast & there non-aggressive so should make for a peaceful environment. Next phase is to add some blue.

I don't know a lot about the Maingano as there isn't a profile on them I like the colour though. Are they compatible with the Labs & the Acei? Perhaps I could get another striped blue species instead of the Saluosi which doesn't have yellow females?


----------



## michebai (Jun 1, 2009)

I have Mainganos mixed in with Kennyi and they seem to be doing great.

The problem with the Mainganos is that is almost impossible to tell the sex of the fish. From what I have read, the females tend to have a lighter belly, but the only "sure" way of sexing them is to find a female holding fry.

In my experience, my Mainganos are semi-agressive, which works out well with my semi-agressive Kennyi females and my pretty agressive Kennyi male (the boss).

I hope this helps you in whether or not you choose the Maingano.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

There is a profile on them, they are Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos. When you can't find a fish in the profiles list, just do "Find" and type in Maingano. It's the common name on the right.


----------



## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

What size tank? 3 species is recommended for a 55, 4 could be done with a 75 or larger. If you can do 4, I would replace the Yellow Labs with Red Zebras. This gives you more color. You will have LOTS of Yellow with the Saulosi and Labs as Saulosi females are also yellow. Or, Replace the Saulosi with Demasoni and Giant Demasoni(Ps. Blue Dolphin).


----------



## promoe (Apr 28, 2009)

cobue and rusties look really good with acei.imo. the lab sp. textilus is pretty chill also one of my favs! for what its worth my cobue and lion mara hang with my perlmutt.my white top and orange cap are the only 2 species in my tank that seem to be extra agro.especially when the yellow top mbamba comes around.none of the mbunas are peaceful fish really.
personally i am tired of the labs,acei,maingano and saulosi cookie cutter theory.lol...man thats alot of blue and yellow!! i just dont see being happy with a tank/fish just like everybody elses.id pick the coolest species of fish in your eyes and go from there.like the cobue or chewere.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=197329


----------



## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

I'd suggest keeping the yellow lab and the acei. They are beautiful fish, look great together, and go well with just about any other Malawi cichlid. For the third species you could do a number of things, even keep some smaller peacocks. But since you said you wanted mbuna I'd recommend rusties or cynotilapia.

BTW, the research you're doing now is great, and will for sure pay off in the near future. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi Guys, Thanks for the positive input................

My tank is a 260 Litres measuring 121 x 46 x 62 cm (48" x 18" x 25") - Do you think 4 species is pushing it & I should go for 3? I was told 4 would be ok. If I was going to go for 3 species instead of 4 would I just have to up the numbers of each species to keep the same total amount of fish in the tank?

It looks like I have a lot of choice's here. I could go with the Saulosi for blue & yellow, or ditch the Saluosi's in favour of yellow labs & Demasoni's - I take it I can't mix the Dem's with the Saulosi because of the similar colour/markings? Could I mix the Coube with either the Demâ€™s or Saulosi? There similar but not too similar.

I do like the maingano the females are nice as well which is probably why there hard to tell apart. So the problem here would be I could potentially add several maingano males into my tank as you cant sex them & when they matured they'd kill each other?

I've looked at the kenyi & it says they're difficult to keep, not recommended for beginners & highly aggressive so I've crossed them off my list. I also noticed that particular species come in a variety of colours & markings - Do they start off stripy & lose them as they mature? I also noticed that the "Red Zebras" come in blue, red, orange & orange & black, could I mix all these colours together as one species out of the potential 3 or 4 I put in my tank?

I must say I didn't know the whole Malawi/territorial thing was so complicated when I brought the tank (although now I am getting my head round it). I just figured you made caves for them & that was that. It's a good job I found this site & didn't just go by 15 "assorted Malawi cichlids" from my LFS. The deciding factor in not giving up & putting something else in the tank was that I'd spent Â£130 on the rock & already built the caves for them, so I am sure when it's stocked all this research will pay off!


----------



## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes. Research is the key. As far as the Zebras, it's best to purchse from one collection point. If you can find they the Blue males, and Red females are nice. They are not really red, just brighter orange. You can usually find solid and Ob from the same collection point, as ell.

Someone else mentione Cynotilapia. The White topped Haras would look nice with the Yellow Labs, and Dems. The females are too similar to Acei to keep both in the same tank, IMO. The Haras don't get as big as the Acei, as well.

If you were going to try 4 species, I would suggest smaller fish. Saulosi, Rusties, maingano, and maybe Cyno Mwbeca could work. You'll eventually stumble on the perfect combination for you. Or...like most of us set up more tanks and move them around...lol


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Agree, four species. Avoid more than one blue barred species (don't mix saulosi, demasoni and cobue). Note that cobue need to be dominant if they are to color up well, and they are pretty timid.

When the maingano mature, just take out the main aggressor until you achieve peace. That's how you remove excess males. If you do the removing when fins first start being damaged and/or when fish first start hiding at surface/behind heaters/intakes you should not have a problem.

You might want to arrange your rockpile into smaller ones to create more territories. Right now it looks like you have a pile in the middle and open around the edges. Concern would be that one male would claim the whole thing and no territories for anyone else.

Think cubicles with substrate floor and rock walls, open tops. Break up line of sight between territories with rock piles. Make your caves and swim-throughs in the walls of the cubicles.


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks for that I was hoping 4 species was going to be the case, harder to choose but the end result will be better.

It's not really a rockpile I stacked larger pieces of rock up then used smaller pieces to bridges holes bigger holes between them making more entrances etc & create more hiding places as well as making it look more "natural". I guess it does look like a rock pile from the front.

I've taken more pictures from different angles showing all the entrances to the caves etc - Is this ok?


----------



## canuckle (Nov 30, 2004)

Kaosone, I think your rockwork looks great! Just make sure you've got clearly different territories as well as hidey holes...the males will want to claim an area and keep it, so really obvious spots are best.


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

canuckle said:


> Kaosone, I think your rockwork looks great! Just make sure you've got clearly different territories as well as hidey holes...the males will want to claim an area and keep it, so really obvious spots are best.


Thanks for the positive comment, could you give me a definition of what "clearly different territories" are please?

My main concern is that all these holes lead to a mostly open space at the rear of the tank. The larger rocks are just sat in place & I used Milput to bond some of the higher ones on top to prevent the risk of them falling. I then used Milput to fix smaller reef rock pieces over some large gaps to provide more shelter as well as divide up the entrances/exits.

I do have some reef rock left over, maybe I could use it around the sides of the tank etc to create some more hidey holes? I went with stacking the rock, should I have focused more on the footprint?


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Times are hard I was just looking at Red Peacocks??? I would like to keep it all Mbuna tho. So far I am up to....

*Labidochromis caeruleus *- http://www.cichlid--forum.com/profiles/ ... php?id=713









*
Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" (Msuli)* - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... p?id=1460/










*Cynotilapia afra (Cobue) *- http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1371










I've ditched the saulosi's as I have yellow & blue elsewhere, Dem's seem to aggressive so I've chosen the Coube's as a blue bared species instead.

For my 4th species I could go with Maingano's but am put off with having to sort the aggressive males, I am not to keen on rustys & they look a bit like the Acei. Whats the deal with Hongi's (Labidochromis sp. "Hongi") I take it I cant mix them with the yellow labs? (Labidochromis caeruleus). I could go with red zebra's I guess.....?

However nothing's set in stone & I am open to suggestions :-?


----------



## Stevozoid (Jun 7, 2009)

It depends on what you want to do with your tank whether its for breeding or for show. If you want to breed your fish basically forget about red zebras as they will breed with any type of fish. However if its for show get some cuckoo's a bunch of atleast 4 so they can take care of any fry as they will most likely be hybrids. If you want to breed these fish i would say steer clear of the red zebras


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi, I don't want to breed at all I just want a nice colourful tank in my lounge. I didn't really want catfish but suppose it wouldn't hurt & would solve the fry problem. As far as the catfish go, do I add them as well as 4 species as mbnua?

I notice the red zebras are aggressive, would this pose a problem with the Cobue not showing ther full colours if there not dominant in the tank? I am thinking red would finish the tank of quite nicely so if I did go with....

Cobue
Yellow Labs
Acei
Red Zebra
Synodontis multipunctatus - Cuckoo Catfish

What would be a good quantity & male/female ratio of each to fully stock my tank with?

Thanks,
Stuart


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would not expect cobue to color up with zebras in the tank.

Basically if I were trying to get cobue at their best, I'd do a species tank 36" x 18". That way they can definitely be dominant!


----------



## canuckle (Nov 30, 2004)

Kaosone said:


> canuckle said:
> 
> 
> > Kaosone, I think your rockwork looks great! Just make sure you've got clearly different territories as well as hidey holes...the males will want to claim an area and keep it, so really obvious spots are best.
> ...


Clearly different territory can be as simple as a rock or a plant...with an mbuna tank, more rock is better, as they have more choices. Don't forget, they live in very crowded conditions in the lake, so they can adapt if they have territory.


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

DJRansome said:


> I would not expect cobue to color up with zebras in the tank.
> 
> Basically if I were trying to get cobue at their best, I'd do a species tank 36" x 18". That way they can definitely be dominant!


Ok......

What if I only went with 3 Mbuna species could I do say 6-7 Acei, 6-7 Yellow Labs & 12-14 Cobue with the Cobue being the dominant species & showing there full colours? I think there's a girl on this forum running these species I'll try to find a thread.....

Could I mix Labidochromis sp "hongi" with Labidochromis caeruleus? The Hongi are the same species as the Labs (but look more like the acei)?

Thanks,
Stuart


----------



## TheBanker (Jun 14, 2008)

i have mixed both "coube" and "chewere" with both males showing good color, i never distribute any fry though, but the mix was successful without any aggression between the two groups. 1m/3f coube, and 1m/3f chewere. Im just speaking from personal experience, not saying that it always end up being successful.


----------



## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

Generally speaking, you usually don't mix two of the same genus(eg. Pseudotropheus, Metriaclima, Cynotilapia...) but I haven't had any problems with my yellow labs and Perlmutts(both Labidochromis). I'm not going to give you the 'OK' and say go for it because all fish are different, but I haven't had any problems with aggression in my tank.

I like the sounds of the larger groups of fish and sticking with only 3 species, but I think hat many will be overstocking the tank. Maybe 6 Acei, 6 Yellow Labs, and 10-12 Cobue.

And the catfish, doesn't mean you have to eliminate any mbuna. IME they produce very little waste and clean up really well(I have 3 Syno. Erupterus, or something like that, i can't remember the spelling).

And to create different territories, try to break up lines of sight, so one dominant male can be sitting in one section of the cave, and not see a dominant male of a different species right next to him. I don't think you'll need a whole lot of different territories though, the acei are a lot like peacocks and only really go into rock work at night. It all depends on the different number of males though.


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

BurgerKing said:


> I like the sounds of the larger groups of fish and sticking with only 3 species, but I think hat many will be overstocking the tank. Maybe 6 Acei, 6 Yellow Labs, and 10-12 Cobue.


Are those the figures I should look to put in my tank to stock it?

6 Acei
6 Yellow Labs
12 Cobue
3 Cuckoo's

Sounds about right to me, what male/female ration should I do with this lot? I am off to count the terratories in my tank. I take it the terratories should also tie in with the amount of males I have?

Thanks,
Stuart


----------



## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

Well that's what I would go with. I'm not exactly a syno expert, so maybe someone that is could recommend a good number for you.

For males, I would go with 2m/4f of both the acei and yellow labs, then have 3m/9f of the cobues. I guess if you over filter like crazy you could have more fish, but I personally wouldn't have any more than that.


----------



## Kanorin (Apr 8, 2008)

If you're purchasing the fish as juveniles (which I recommend) it will be very tough or impossible to tell the difference between male and female yellow labs and Acei. The good news is that the gender ratios of those two species shouldn't matter too much (unless you get real unlucky with something like 6 males or 5 males and 1 female).

For the afra cobues, your ability to tell apart males and females will depend on how mature they are and even then will only be an approximation. Shooting for 3 males and 9 females is a good goal, though.

If I were you, I would drop the extra cobue (just stick with 1 male with 3-5 females) and add a group of 5-6 Iodotropheus Sperengae aka "rusties." They are of similar temperament to yellow labs.

Good luck, and make sure you cycle your tank before adding fish!


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Kanorin said:


> If you're purchasing the fish as juveniles (which I recommend) it will be very tough or impossible to tell the difference between male and female yellow labs and Acei. The good news is that the gender ratios of those two species shouldn't matter too much (unless you get real unlucky with something like 6 males or 5 males and 1 female).
> 
> For the afra cobues, your ability to tell apart males and females will depend on how mature they are and even then will only be an approximation. Shooting for 3 males and 9 females is a good goal, though.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Thanks for the input, my tank is cycling now. Ammonia's clearing but the nitrite is through the roof so I am currently playing the waiting game. I am also looking at maybe upping the aggression level of the fish for more choices of what to keep.

Regarding more aggressive species such as red zebras & kenyi etc, whats the differences between these species compared to a tank of more peaceful labs, acei & rustys?

Do the fish just need to be more carefully stocked because of the heightened aggression levels, as well as being kept with fish of a similarly aggressive nature?

Thanks.


----------



## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Some fish do not belong in a smaller tank. Kenyis don't belong in any tank, IMO. They are a PIA. I kept Red Zebras with Labs and Acei before. The red Zebras are dominant. The problem with this scenario is that the Zebras and Labs crossbreed readily. The solution... Don't keep ANY fry or don't keep a male of one species and keep fry, only when you see the spawn. I kept all female red zebras in my tank for a while. I then moved my Labs out, Saulosi in, and got a male Red Zebra.


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

I was just using kenyi as an example as I they're known for being aggressive to make an example of how would 2 aggressive species go together. I suppose another option would be to not have a male lab? On the other hand I am not interseted in fry so 3-4 Synodontis multipunctatus will take care of that for me.

So although my basic selection keeps coming in at labs, acei & rustys I could swop some of these out for more aggressive species?

Hmmmmmm........?


----------



## Stevozoid (Jun 7, 2009)

Seeing that its your first tank especially with mbuna i would start off with the fish that have been mentioned above (might be a lil biased). Personally i would grow them up from juvies just cause its more fun and you learn alot and see them grow. Also you can buy bigger groups if you buy them as juvies and try and sex them as their growing and maturing and trade in some of the males at your lfs. Also in terms of rusties, alot of people say that they dont really like the look of them. However its all about the quality I believe. Its very hard to get some really good looking rusties but once you do i really think you will like them but i guess that goes for all fish not just rusties. My advice to you is when you have finally decided on what fish to keep and your tank is cycled to find out where people have ordered or purchased their fish from in terms of a breeder, some sort of trading post or LFS to try and get good quality fish. In terms of stocking my list would be as follows...

4 Synodontis multipunctatus
6 labs
4 maybe 5 Acei
9 cobues
5-6 rusties.


----------



## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

2nd on the quality of the rusty's. First Rusty I had was a lesser quality and he was just a brownish rust color all the time...he was nice, but didn't have a lot of color. I just recently got a better quality one and he has a bright belly (almost yellow) and has the rust color, but has a beautiful purple sheen on the entire body...crossing through the light it's like he's constantly changing colors...real beautiful fish if you can find a high grade one.

If you are doing a 55 and want lots of color then why not do an all male tank? When you put all males most tend to show off color all the time and it allows you to put a much larger variety of fish. I have a 120g all male tank and it's awesome. I currently have 28 different species in my tank, almost all mbuna. I recently added 3 species of haps to the tank...I was kind of worried about doing that, but they are getting along fine with the mbuna I have for about a month now. There was a little tail nipping at first, but all that's in the past and the mbuna don't even mess with them anymore.

Just a thought if you want a real colorful tank. My buddy has a harem tank and I have the all male and he admits mine is much nicer looking and much more active.


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Stevozoid said:


> Also in terms of rusties, alot of people say that they dont really like the look of them. However its all about the quality I believe. Its very hard to get some really good looking rusties but once you do i really think you will like them but i guess that goes for all fish not just rusties.


Iâ€™m warming to rustys they're not actually the dull s*** brown colour I thought they were.......










I think I could live with that, I take it cobue would be dominant in that tank & show their full colours? Either way there's no shortage of blue bared species to pick from!



Stevozoid said:


> 4 Synodontis multipunctatus
> 6 labs
> 4 maybe 5 Acei
> 9 cobues
> 5-6 rusties.


With the stocking numbers you've suggested is this taking into account that some additional males will be removed as they mature? (I am not keen on the idea of adding "victems" to an established aquarium). Are these random numbers or specific to teh requirements of teh species?

Regarding the Synodontis multipunctatus is it me or are they a tad on the expensive side? I've found some in a new(ly discovered) LFS along with a selection of Malawiâ€™s. The guy didn't stock that much he said they didnâ€™t sell but as he had several seperate species from suppliers & larger fish from local breeders. He got weekly stocks in & said tell me what you want on monday morning & I can have it by the afternoon. I like the larger ones but I think one my tanks cycled Iâ€™ll fully stock it with juvies to be on the safe side.



srook23 said:


> If you are doing a 55 and want lots of color then why not do an all male tank?


I red about the all male tank & it seemed 'awkward' I am not 100% on if I have the ability to pick & mix like that with the LFS. I am sure they wouldn't mind me returning the odd problem male from a maturing tank but dont know about the whole pic n' mix?



srook23 said:


> My buddy has a harem tank and I have the all male and he admits mine is much nicer looking and much more active.


Can I be thick & ask what a harem tank is please?


----------



## Floridagirl (Jan 10, 2008)

Harem tank...1 male, 3-5 females of species :wink:

Just so you know. My Rusties have grown on me, but they are not near as nice as that pic.
I started out with Red Zebras in my first tank, and never had a problem. The trick, as with any mbuna is weeding out the extra males. With Zebras, I find them fairly easy to sex. The males have a more pointed dorsal fin, and usually more egg spots. Some times, they are a lighter color than the females and/or a blue tinge to their fins. The females have a rounded dorsal fin. If I was NOT going to have a male of one species, it would be the Zebras. The reason.. the ratio of M/F doesn't usually matter with Acei and Labs. It does with Zebras. And, I have never been able to house more than 1M zebra, in a tank, after sexual maturity.

As long as you do 4 species that don't look alike, start with about 8 juvies, and pull extra males (whick you will notice with fighting usually), I don't think you can go wrong. There are always those problem fish..Auratus, Kenyi, Bumblebees that never seem to work in any tank...lol , but really, find 3 fish that you love, and order them online at the same time. You won't regret it. Run a final decision , and many of us will be here to tell you if we think it just won't work. opcorn:


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi thanks for that, I think the best at the moment is labs, acei, rustys & cobue (or another blue barred species) if cobue wont show there true colours.

So then load my tank & as they mature if there is a problem male harassing the other males/females then remove him & keep monitoring to see if another one steps up to take his place until the tank is (relatively) calm.

So as Labs & Acei are peaceful if I had 6 of each which turned out to be a ratio of 3M & 3F that wouldn't matter as there peaceful? Then if I added 9 Cobue I'd want to maintain the 3:1 female/male ratio?

Thanks & regards,
Stuart


----------



## Stevozoid (Jun 7, 2009)

My advice to you is that you dont take out the male harassing the other sub-dom male or female as you will find that he will most likely be the the dominant male of that species. But if you do want to do it that way then its up to you. In terms of a ratio I always believe its better to have all species of 1m/3f just because its less stress on the females when breeding/mating occurs as they can have a little time out to themselves if there are more females to males and their not popping out babies non stop. That's why i said in my previous post about buying bigger groups of juvies and to watch them grow and wait. Generally after some time you will be able to tell by their behaviour and how they look and with some experience, which will eventually be male and female. Then cull them down to what i wrote in the previous post and that number is what I would stock the tank with (however hopefully someone with more experience will pitch in with their advice and numbers). Goodluck and keep us posted


----------



## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

My Rusty is not quite as nice as that pic either. Has a good bit of purple, but not quite that much. Mine also has more of a yellow belly.

I wouldn't worry about going through the LFS, I'd check and find a breeder you could go through to open up your options more and get a little more pure fishes...lot of time the fishes at LFS are washed out or hybrid. Not to mention most LFS don't have many choices so it's hard to make a tank that stands out when you only have 4-5 species to choose from.


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

Stevozoid said:


> My advice to you is that you dont take out the male harassing the other sub-dom male or female as you will find that he will most likely be the the dominant male of that species


So say I add 9 of a particular species & I end up with 6 females & 3 males I want a ratio of 3:1 so one male has to go, I need to kepp the dominant onewhich leaves me with two.

Whats the procedure for extractinga additional males?



Stevozoid said:


> Buying bigger groups of juvies and to watch them grow and wait. Generally after some time you will be able to tell by their behaviour and how they look and with some experience, which will eventually be male and female. Then cull them down to what i wrote in the previous post and that number is what I would stock the tank with.


As per your previous recomendation below, if I am to end up with 25-26 fish how many should I add when first stocking the tank working on the theory some will be removed?

6 labs
4 maybe 5 Acei
9 cobues
5-6 rusties

Whats the male/female stocking ratio as I am having trouble making 3:1 out of those figures? (except the rusties)



Stevozoid said:


> Goodluck and keep us posted


Thanks & I will, I am going to the states in the first week of August so I figure I'll get my girlfriend to keep adding the ammonia to continue tank cycle (it'll be done by then anyway, it's just safer than leaving her with Â£250's worth of fish). Then when I get back it'll be time te get stocking!!!!!


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

srook23 said:


> I wouldn't worry about going through the LFS, I'd check and find a breeder you could go through to open up your options more and get a little more pure fishes...lot of time the fishes at LFS are washed out or hybrid. Not to mention most LFS don't have many choices so it's hard to make a tank that stands out when you only have 4-5 species to choose from.


I found a store which had a selection of African cichlids relatively near to me, not exactly local but close enough. As opposed to every other LFS which has a tank of "assorted Malawi Cichlids", I spoke to the guy regarding the different species & compatability & he repeted everything I've been told here as well as saying that he used to have a much larger selection but they didn't really sell.

He then says he gets fish from local breeders as well as weekly from a supplier & if I tell him what I want on Monday morning he'll have it for me in the afternoon. He had Labs, Demasoni, Rusties & Acei plus more & some peacoks & cuckoo catfish.

I figured I'd get him to order me what I wanted in one hit as juvies from the supplier & fully stock the tank. There is another fish shop I discovered about an hours drive with a larger selection but I figured they probably used the same supplier so I go with the closer one.

I took a camera down there to photo the names on the signs to reasearch the species & some of the fish while I was at it......


----------



## Stevozoid (Jun 7, 2009)

There is no real procedure of taking the additional males. Basically when you see one of the males getting picked on or swimming around the top of the tank you no you need to get rid of him before he gets to stressed or beaten to a pulp and dies. In terms of how many extra fish i would go with when purchasing your juvies, around 5 extra juvies for each group would be very good. This may sound a little costly however you dont want your fish (sub dom males and females in particular) to get stressed and attacked by having to many males compared to females. In terms of m/f ratios i always try to keep it to 1/3 when keeping all mbuna as i feel personally that it reduces the stress on the females and gives them a break from having babies all the time. Imagine if you where popping out new babies every month very tiring!!!
Your photo of the rusty in the 2nd last photo looks like a good quality fish (compared to what i see around my LFS's). Labs cant really tell as the photos are a little unclear. Can he also get the cobues for you???


----------



## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

Those fishes aren't bad. Some of the yellow labs in the second to last pic looked a little washed...not showing any black on dorsals.

The demasoni look real nice.

Just don't buy the yellow and black one in the second pic all the way at the top...


----------



## Kaosone (Jun 29, 2009)

I found a different store today closer to my house which has a much larger selection & a also a very impressive display tank full of 3-4" Malawai's. It was a bit busy but I'll go back some other time. He also had cuckoo catfish for Â£15 each which was a result as they were Â£25 at the other place (although these were a bit smaller).

Didn't have labs but there were also plenty of tanks labeled not for sale with species that weren't available in the rest of the store so I am guessing they'd been ordered in for people.

Shame my tanks still cycling


----------

