# Substrate Filler?



## HiReZ (Jul 19, 2011)

I am setting up a new 75 gallon. I want to scape the sustrate with dirt/gravel cap. I want to build some height in spots to create something of a hilly topography. Should I use maybe sand to fill the height then dirt, gravel. gravel dirt gravel. or just more dirt and gravel cap? I want to avoid using to much dirt. What is the general method fellow aquascapers use?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

All the fish I keep would rescape your hills and mix your dirt with the water.

Maybe some of the cichlids that are not from Africa's Rift Lakes would leave it alone?


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## HiReZ (Jul 19, 2011)

Good point. I have managed before with Malawi's. The point is when addong height for scaping oa some kind of filler helpful?


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## HiReZ (Jul 19, 2011)

I was thinking of using pebble size (.5 to 1in) lave rock to build 6-8inch mounds. Then rock piles on top of that for cichlid habitat rockscape. Then my substrate will fill in the flat areas and space around the botton and in front. So is lave rock a good choice for building up a contour? Should be relatively light and unmovable by cichlids?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd worry about dirt sifting down through 8 inches of gravel and being impossible to remove. I would suggest pond foam, but then how do you get the sand to stay on top?

I have made cliffs by lining up rocks to form the face of the cliff and filling in behind. But the purpose was to submerge terra cotta flower pots for potted plants behind the cliff. So not much room in between pots for feces to accumulate and behind the "cliff" it was flat (save rockpiles) so the sand does not slide off.

For the base of a rock pile I use solid rock pavers...like bluestone. But not 8" high.


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## HiReZ (Jul 19, 2011)

I see many cichlid hardscapes.  I'm suprised the question is not more common. Can I infer that the general stategy is to just pile sand higher and deeper. it seems to me that over time the sand will settle or rescaped my fish. There must be some methods some fellow cichlid keepers have encountered.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Our usual practice is to put rocks directly on the glass and add 1-2 inches of substrate. If you are seeing mountains of sand...maybe the fish themselves just did a rescape.


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## HiReZ (Jul 19, 2011)

So rocks first, simple enough. I have plastic mesh for under the rocks. Then you cover much of your rock base with several inches of substrate? And if you want more than 2inch of base height? I was thinking using larger gravel\lava rock to get 2-3in of height then rocks then 1-2 inch of substrate around everything filling up to cover the lava rock\gravel.
I was only wondering about dead space between . lava rock could be advantageous in that regard.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I have given up on having levels because I don't want the deep substrate.

If you had a solid slab of lava rock 8" high that would be fine (no dirt can get in) but how would you cover it with one inch of substrate to make it look like a hill of sand.

I would avoid piling up chunks and burying in substrate...too much of a dirt trap for me.

Or just use the pond foam for height if you don't need the look of a hill of sand.

Or just stack up the rocks. Substrate goes next but it's more around than covering. I like one inch.


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## Ba1234 (Mar 10, 2017)

No substrate filter
The fish will just unburied it and the sand will go to waste remember chiclads need sand or gravel that they can fit in there mouth


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## Ba1234 (Mar 10, 2017)

I I agree with DJ I place my rocks directly on the glass and then add the substrate cichlids are going to move things around and if you put the rocks on top of the substrate they might tip over


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

I think most people generate tank topography with rocks and do not put sand on top of the rocks. All the points others have made are echoed by me.


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## HiReZ (Jul 19, 2011)

I am not sure I have made myself clear. following the rule of thirds I am aiming for rocks up to 10-12 inches. I also want a sloping bottom back to front of say 5 to 1 inch. Piling the rocks 12in. high, wont that creat excessive weight and dead space and largely unseen and buried by substrate? mounds of sand would also be excessive and piling rock on top will likely be unstable as sand is shifted overtime. I can see maybe useing a foam platform for peak height and surround that with smaller rocks then filling in and hiding any remaing exposed areas with sustrate/sand. So if I start with say a 6x10x10 foam brick then I can build around this with other rock and sand?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You can try it but I think you are going to have trouble keeping a slope covered and looking natural.

Weight is not a problem in a fish tank. You can fill the tank completely full of rocks and stand on top and it will be fine.

When I want 12" of height...I tend to just use a 12 inch rock.


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

I really wish I could still find this video... a guy takes a 10gallon tank and puts it on 2x4's under the short sides of the tank then one-by-one adds rocks into the tank stacked on top of eachother with the intention of finding out how much weight it can take. The video ends with a stack of rocks that is about 8 ft high and weighing about 200lbs and it still isn't broken.


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## HiReZ (Jul 19, 2011)

I have seen the videos. I have one saved somewhere. If I find it I can post. What is not shown is how the silicone holds up. Breaking the glass is not my concern. I just prefer to conserve weight. Never hurts to be careful.

I think you are right DJRanson, I just need to go Scouting for a bigger rock.

I'll post a pic later to gather some judgment what I have so far.


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## wryan (Dec 6, 2015)

Aaron S said:


> I really wish I could still find this video... a guy takes a 10gallon tank and puts it on 2x4's under the short sides of the tank then one-by-one adds rocks into the tank stacked on top of eachother with the intention of finding out how much weight it can take. The video ends with a stack of rocks that is about 8 ft high and weighing about 200lbs and it still isn't broken.


 :thumb:


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## HiReZ (Jul 19, 2011)

beat me to it. I have seen another I believe on a larger tank, but could not find it. this one does indeed partially test the seals.
perhaps unrelated, I have also seen videos of people trying to smash tempered glass with all kings of tools and failing. you can easily do it with a focused point hit with little effort. a scratch can also significantly weaken a pane as much of the strength comes from stress in the surface, which is why the pointy tools work.


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## HiReZ (Jul 19, 2011)

My rock collection and test placement so far.



















Not all fit and I want to get some more and keep somewhat consistent coloring.


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