# Help with mbuna ID



## incipient

Trying again to see if someone can help identify these 2 mbuna. I am working under the assumption that they are a different color variant than the other Cobalt Blues (Metriaclima callainos) in my tank, those are a solid light blue, and this assumption is based on the LFS guy who had identical mix of light blue and this pattern in a juvenile tank and he told me they were different patterns based on dominance. I am thinking they may be Red Cherrys (Maylandia estherae) based on the best match I could find in Internet pictures. I'm trying to get the count of each species up to 10 so i can cull back to 1:~5 m/f, and this is causing me some confusion.


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## noki

What were they sold as? Does the barring ever get jet black on any dominant males? Do they ever get light blue, almost white?
They are probably Metriaclima hybrids. Seem like males. I don't think you could find females, since you won't be able to figure out what they are.

With Blue M. estherae males, a male would turn very light blue when dominant. The so called "Cherry red Zebra" would have orange males anyway (none are actually cherry red either).

If you have Cobalt Zebras, you wouldn't want a group of M. estherae in the same tank anyway.


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## nmcichlid-aholic

I Agree With Noki - These Are More Than Likely Hybrids, And Finding Females For Them Is a Waste Of Time. The Only Thing I Could Suggest Is To Go Back To Your LFS and See If They Can Help You Identify Them Based On Their Past Orders. If They Give You A Species Name, Post It Here So We Can Help Confirm It.


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## incipient

Thanks for the thoughts.

In response to Noki's questions:

(1) These were not sold, I adopted them (according to the seller, purchased 2 months earlier from a LFS) when i bought the tank off craigslist, all other fish were pretty easy to identify. I went to the LFS and saw the exact same markings (royal blue with black barring) on juveniles that he had in a tank with a few Cobalts, and he said they were all Cobalts.
(2) The bars never get more distinct than in these pics, and usually are less noticeable.
(3) They are currently in an overstocked tank, and neither seem to be dominant, there is a Pearl White that is dominant
(4) They do get light (not white) almost to the color of the Cobalts sometimes (there are 3 Cobalts that are clearly the correct color in the tank)


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## pablo111

On an unrelated note, what are you feeding?










This poop says "I'm on the wrong diet". Likely needs more vegetable matter and fiber.


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## incipient

Pablo, thanks for the heads up. Based on what i have read and been told, combined with what i see happening in the tank, i have been feeding the following:

(1) Marineland sprulina pellets (which ridiculously, i pick out from a 50/50 blend of green and red pellets, i toss the red pellets in a tank i have with some random non-cichlids)
(2) These float, so i drop them into the water pouring out of they filter so they suspend for a little bit to get eaten as was told they shuoldnt eat off top of tank because of air intake
(3) the tank has 23 juveniles in it, but they range from under 2 inches to about 3 inches in size, the bigger fish are easily 4x the weight of the smaller ones, and they basically eat eveything i put in the tank (right now i drop 2 pellets per fish per feed)
(4) I then put a pinch of Tetra cichlid flakes which i got with the tank when i bought it form the previous owner, i also put those in the downdraft water from the filter, and the smaller fish actually get to eat some of that for the 10 seconds that the larger ones are grabbing pellets.

I'm sure i am screwing a bunch of things up here, but i havent one the research i shuold have to this point on diet, was so focused on water quality and figuring out how to cull the tank.

PS. I also drop 2 algae wafers in every other day and a piece of zucchini on a skewer one a week.

ADVICE on what the proper food or best food would be great.

Thanks


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## pablo111

I like this stuff. Nothing else I've fed to Mbuna has compared to this stuff. It's not really that expensive either. If you can't find it in store you'll have to order online (major online retailers carry it. I'll PM you which ones). It costs (from one particular E-tailer) $28 for 1.1Lbs and free shipping in the USA. That'll last you a long time.






^Here is my horribly corny review of this food including before and after pictures of my fish eating Dainichi VS New Life Spectrum, which is one of the more commonly suggested foods for Mbuna.

Another piece of evidence that I have for this food's quality is a friend's tank I used to take care of. We had a deal where she would give me some cash in exchange for me keeping her stocked on food, water conditioner, etc, and coming over once a week to do maintenance on her tanks. Her Mbuna (yellow labs and demasoni) were on Dainichi the whole time I was taking care of them, and had great definition and color. After I stopped coming over she started buying her own food (HBH African Cichlid attack [facepalm]) and the visible condition and coloration of the fish deteriorated.

You'll notice a difference in color within a month or two of switching to this stuff. Feed it exclusively. No need to feed anything else at all. Poops will be well formed and come out like little rockets. No danglers.


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## pablo111

The zucchini is fine. Other things you may wish to feed on occasion are cooked, de-skinned peas, and nori.










Nori is seaweed. Get one of those veggie clips from the pet store so you can clip it to the glass. Very good for Mbuna.

Primarily though, feed the Veggie FX. Nothing else is necessary, just 'treats' basically.


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## ILCichlid

The issue with zebras like these are that for the longest time, they had just thrown any blue fish with bars and this body shape into a general group that was called Pseudotropheus sp. Zebra, Maylandia sp. zebra, and then Metriaclima sp. zebra. This resulted in tons of cross breeding between the different species that were giving a combined generic species name. Then after many years they started trying to seperate the different species and give them their own names after it was too late and a lot of the issues of crossing already occurred. Some species were much easier to seperate from the group like the different red top species and some others but it was still left with a lot that couldn't be identified because in most cases they were mixes of different unnamed blue zebra species.

I personally would take the same route and assume any blue zebra type fish in an assorted tank or from a person that isn't known to be reliable should just be assumed that it is a hybrid if can't be 100% identified. Safer for the Hobby. Doesn't mean dont' enjoy them, just wouldn't attempt to try and breed them.


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