# Sump suggestions



## zcfish (Jan 31, 2009)

First DIY sump setup. Please help.:

The tank is a 90 gallon drilled tank the drain is 1 3/4 and return is 1 1/2. The drain - based on Jehmco website I need a bulkhead that's 1 inch in diameter for the drain. I already have the bulkhead for the return hole.

a few questions:

1. I like the quiet one pumps. The 3000 pumps about 600gph. the 4000 one about 800gph @ 4 ft head. Which one should I choose? Looks like common sense is 600gph hour for a 1 inch drain. Assuming there's no 90 degree elbow etc on the return line to reduce the follow but I am considering the eheim diffusor which may give some back pressure.

2. I read somewhere when the drain is reaching capacity the noise increases a lot is this true? If it is should I be shooting for 500gph for the pump output?

3. Can someone suggest a return outlet design? Maybe a thread link or picture. Goal is to maximize water movement to prevent debris from settling. Hopefully I would not need another filter or powerhead in the tank.

Also tank will be relatively light-stocked with cyps, calvus and shellies.

Thanks in advance.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I don't know anything about sumps, but I am going to be making one, so I will follow your post.


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## zcfish (Jan 31, 2009)

What do you think about this:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=14680

how would I connected this? bulkhead -> pvc -> pvc barbed adapter -> flex tubing -> directional u-tube? anything better?


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

for inlets and outlets? I would use Pvc to get it closer to the sump and then go to flex tubing.

I was looking as this one for me

http://cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... highlight=

looks like a pretty detailed way to do it.


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## zcfish (Jan 31, 2009)

Matthew I have seem this thread as a matter of fact that's what I am gonna do. But I am interested in the outlet nozzle design which is not shown.

Sorry I have very limited experience running piping so detail will help a lot.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I have no idea either, but I would run the pump with flex tubing up to that inlet thing you left a link for. and the same for the outlet.


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## kjhydock (Apr 28, 2009)

So you're looking for an outlet nozzle to support up to 600 gph without making a water cannon? In my DIY sump (around 1400 gph) I use a very large spraybar. I'm at work atm, so I can't show you a picture of it, but I don't know how much use it will be in your plans as my set-up is rather archaic and unique. Sparybars are my choice for return though since they are easily fabricated (PVC, end cap and a drill) and distribute flow very well. If you're interested, I'll post a pic of my setup when I get home and help with any questions I can.


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## zcfish (Jan 31, 2009)

kjhydock said:


> So you're looking for an outlet nozzle to support up to 600 gph without making a water cannon? In my DIY sump (around 1400 gph) I use a very large spraybar. I'm at work atm, so I can't show you a picture of it, but I don't know how much use it will be in your plans as my set-up is rather archaic and unique. Sparybars are my choice for return though since they are easily fabricated (PVC, end cap and a drill) and distribute flow very well. If you're interested, I'll post a pic of my setup when I get home and help with any questions I can.


I'd like to see the connections. Is your pump rated 1400gph or actual. I am still trying to decide whether to get the 600gph or 800gph pump. Will the spray bar put a lot of back pressure?


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## kjhydock (Apr 28, 2009)

zcfish said:


> I'd like to see the connections. Is your pump rated 1400gph or actual. I am still trying to decide whether to get the 600gph or 800gph pump. Will the spray bar put a lot of back pressure?


The pump I have is rated at 1400gph. It's a submersible fountain pump I picked up from harbor freight and adapted to my needs. It's rated at 1400gph at 6' head, which I have about that in plumbing.

In freshwater, the turnover of the tank isn't as crucial as it is in saltwater tanks and I think a minimum of 6:1 is needed to be an effective filter. So either pump you chose is fine.

As far as the back pressure, it really depends on how it's set-up. If you just have it feed into a 90* elbow or a "T" and along the back of your tank, then it shouldn't be anything to be concerned about. You'll obviously have to test a few different shapes and sizes until you figure out something you like.


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## Charlutz (Mar 13, 2006)

If you are on the fence, get the larger pump. You can always use a valve to cut down the flow if it's too much for your overflow or to cut down the noise. But if you buy the smaller pump and want to increase the flow you can't do it without buying a new pump.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

Get the larger pump. If you need to fine tune you can divert the excess back to the sump.

For 600GPH I am using loc line with a wye or whatever it is that megaflow provides with its kit. Here is a link to loc line, mebbe it will help. http://www.locline.com/products/index.html


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## zcfish (Jan 31, 2009)

I actually got the megaflow kit for AGA tanks today. But it's too big for my AGA tank! go figure. So hopefully the LFS will take returns otherwise I just spent 50 bucks to get two bulkheads.


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## fox (Jun 11, 2009)

The 90 gal tank uses the same hardware as my 65G. I would check into the megaflow weir for the AGA 90G tank, it is a very good system and pulls water from three levels of the tank. Clears a very turbid tank in fifteen minutes @ 600GPH.

The megaflow overflow kit should be adjustable as I use the same one on both a 65G and 210G tank.


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## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

1" PVC will easily handle 800 gallons per hour. The works out to 13.33 gallons per minute, and 1" can handle almost twice that at 40 pounds of pressure. Sump pumps like the one you mention do not create anyware near that pressure. Lower pressure equals more flow with less friction loss. As far as noise, you will only get noise through pvc if you get air trapped in the line. Using 45 degree elbows instead of 90 will help with less trapped air.

Personally I only use the flex hose where I need to. PVC works well and glued joints are very reliable.

if you need any other advice let me know, being an irrigation engineer has it perks! lol


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## mel_cp6 (Feb 3, 2009)

if you get a quiet1 pump buy them online at petsmart.com
they are currenty on sale. $36 for the 3000 and $46US for the 4000.


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## kjhydock (Apr 28, 2009)

Sorry I couldn't get pics up. The camera wasn't co-operating.

If we're on the subject of pumps...I paid $45 for my 1400gph submersible from Harbor Freight tools. It's not perfect, nor pretty, but for $45, it does its job.


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## zcfish (Jan 31, 2009)

fox said:


> The 90 gal tank uses the same hardware as my 65G. I would check into the megaflow weir for the AGA 90G tank, it is a very good system and pulls water from three levels of the tank. Clears a very turbid tank in fifteen minutes @ 600GPH.
> 
> The megaflow overflow kit should be adjustable as I use the same one on both a 65G and 210G tank.


The tank is about 9 years old. Actually I am not sure if it's AGA but the stand that came with it is AGA for sure. The return pipe is like a Durso pipe. I can put it into the overflow but the overflow is not wide enough so the pipe is tilted. Just off by maybe a quarter inch.


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## zcfish (Jan 31, 2009)

mel_cp6 said:


> if you get a quiet1 pump buy them online at petsmart.com
> they are currenty on sale. $36 for the 3000 and $46US for the 4000.


Great tip! I should order one it's backordered. Sometimes petsmart.com has some great deals.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

*kjhydock*
what pump did you get at harbor freight?


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## kjhydock (Apr 28, 2009)

matthew1884 said:


> *kjhydock*
> what pump did you get at harbor freight?


This one: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=98342

Haven't had any real issues with it so far. I've been using it for 6 months with very little downtime.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

thanks
*kjhydock*


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## zcfish (Jan 31, 2009)

I finally got the pump, quiet one 4000. As Petsmart backordered so it took like 4 weeks. No big deal I was using my quiet one 1200 in the interim. Hooked it up tonight the flow is incredible. I would say the flow is stronger than the FX5 canister I had. As both use 50w and the sump setup obviously has no loss of flow due to filter media. I am guessing there's at least 8x turn over for the 90g tank.

I switched back to the 1200 tonight as I am gonna run this during the day and check every 30 minutes for a few hours just to make sure the overflow can keep up. Seems to be OK though but better safe than sorry.

I do worry about the clear tubing connected to the outlet. The outlet is a slip with no barbs. Should I get a barbed adapter from Lowes? Do I need to clamp it?


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