# smallest tank for pair or trio of shell-dwellers?



## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

I'd like to set up a very small tank in my office. The smaller the better.

What's the smallest tank for a trio of either 'Lamprologus' ocellatus (Gold) or 'Lamprologus' similis?

Do small tanks come with some heater/filter hidden in the canopy or elsewhere? I don't know anything about very small tanks and imagine that my sense of what is a quality heater and/or filter for larger tanks doesn't apply to tanks under 10 gallons.


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## BurgerKing (Jul 1, 2008)

Generally good brands keep the quality you're used to in allof their products(IMO), so I'd suggest sticking with the brands you're familiar with. You can get some kits, filter, tank, light, and hood all in one for a decent price. I have a little marineland bowfront(6g i think) and am happy with everything, decent light and filter but the hood is a bit of pain.

I have a pair of occies in a 10g but wouldnt go much smaller. Multies are a little smaller and more passive so they might be a better choice if you went with a smaller than 10g tank.


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## football mom (Feb 19, 2006)

Eclipse makes some small tank kits that have the filter in the hood, nice and neat, might work for a few shellies.


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## alfalex (Jan 6, 2007)

Brevis work better in small Tank, I've breed them in a 5.5 gallons!


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## Hrafen (Feb 19, 2005)

Multis or Brevis work best in small tanks. Given just how aggressive a male Occelatus can be I'd give his tank mates more space. Less sure about Similis, not tried keeping those.


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## Jago (Oct 5, 2007)

I kept a breeding pair of brevis in an eclipse system 3 with a 25 watt heater. They were probably in there for 6-9 months and they had 3 spawns. After coming home from a week long business trip I discovered the female had perished. I can't say for sure why.

I keep and breed similis. There was some aggression initially but all has been peaceful for a long time now. I have 3 pair in a 10 gal. with loads of fry. I wouldn't be afraid to try a pair in a smaller tank.

Multies would be a good choice too but then again they always are  
Article here where the author kept a small group in a 3 gal. 
http://www.gcca.net/fom/Neolamprologus_ ... ciatus.htm


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

Just a few pictures of my half 10G tank. It's actually a 5G tank, but with the footprint of a 10G and half the height. I had gold occies breeding in there for years, until I lost the lot while I was on vacation over Christmas. Now I put a brood of brevis in there to grow up. The tank just has a heater and a #1 Hydrosponge filter - a very cheap setup! Tanks of those dimensions can be hard to come by, but I can strongly recommend them if you can lay your hands on one!

Similis - or multis, which have essentially the same behavior - are actually better suited for very small tanks than occies or brevis, since the similis and multis are colony forming and get better along with each other. Occies and brevis are pair forming, and having several pairs of adults in the same tank can create havoc. I have two pairs of brevis in a 240G with many other fish, and the fights among the male brevis are so fierce that I'd prefer to take one out. Trouble is, I can't catch the little sucker in that tank :lol:

Frank


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

fmueller, that's exactly what i was envisioning. same dimensions, same basic layout. though i hope to slap a black background and use an AC filter. otherwise, almost identical. a few questions:

1. I guess AGA or other standard brands (as opposed to, say, glasscages) do not make this size tank?

2. sounds like similis or multies are the way to go. How many? and any recommendations b/w multis and similis?

3. what kind of shells are those and can they be bought at arts and craft stores or some other easily accessible place for not too much money?

4. I see glasscages has a 3G tank also instead of a 5G. The 5G dimensions are 8" x 16" x 6" while the 3G are 6" x 12" x 6". Could I use that 3G? If so, how many similis or multies?

5. If I wanted a number of different groups of shell-dwellers (e.g. occies, similis, and brevis/or multies (idea would be gold, black, and light gray color shell-dwellers) in a tank would that work with their 1/2 29? Dimensions are 12 x 30 x 6


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## Hoosier Tank (May 8, 2007)

There is that awesome shelly desktop tank AGAIN!
*fmueller*, One of these days I'm gonna find one of those for my desk... going to have to build my own acrylic soon if I can't find one


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

replace questions above with these:

1. will this tank work? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=15493
or a 12" x 6" x 8"? if so, how many multies or similis?

2. what kind of shells are those and can they be bought at arts and craft stores or some other easily accessible place for not too much money?

3. If I wanted a number of different groups of shell-dwellers (e.g. occies, similis, and brevis/or multies (idea would be gold, black, and light gray color shell-dwellers) in a tank would that work with their 1/2 29? Dimensions are 12 x 30 x 6


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I think that tank would be too small, 5G is the smallest I've heard of working. The shells that seem to work best are moon snail shells or escargot shells. If you want more than one group of shellies I've heard it could be attempted with some chance of success and special aquascaping in a 72" tank.


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

DJ, when you say 5G what does that mean? In other words, two 5G tanks could have very different footprints. Fmueller's footprint is, unfortunately, tough to find and I imagine most people with 5G tanks have the same, or smaller, footprint than the 3G tanks I am looking at.

As for the 72" tank. Wow! Is there that much con-specific aggression? Or is it that no matter the number of females for each species there's still a fear of hybridization?

Thanks for the tip on the shells. Can these kinds of shells be located at Michael's or other similar stores?


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## Jago (Oct 5, 2007)

My local Petco carries this. Thought it would make a good shellie tank.
http://www.fish.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=701 ... 0423bb4e95


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

it's plastic, larger than i want, and taller than i want. but thank you for the suggestion.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The shells aren't very decorative, so you might find one or two in a "Michael's" assortment. Buy escargot shells at a gourmet shop.

I think 5 gallons is pushing it anyway, I'd be afraid of 3 gallons. I thought a typical 5G was 12 x 9.5?


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Foot print is all for most cichlids. But it also takes more work to keep a shallow tank low volume tank in good condition. By your workstation seems a great idea to me. You will be reminded hourly if it gets too dirty or is going wrong. :thumb:


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## fmueller (Jan 11, 2004)

This is my smallest tank and always gets lots of interest - probably more so than my 240G. :lol:

The tank has a footprint of 10"x20". The height really doesn't matter much for shellies. If you compare that to the 12"x6" tank from Drs Foster&Smith, the tank is almost 3 times larger! I was lucky in finding this tank locally for $15. The store is a site sponsor, so I guess I can mention it: www.somethingishyinc.net, but I don't think they still carry those tanks. I am not sure if Glasscages has a standard policy of not sending tanks in the mail, but really this one is small enough that it could certainly work if packed well. It might be worth giving them a call.

The smail shells are escargot shells mail ordered from the Gourmet Food Store. I replace them about once every 12-18 months, because they loose their attractive color and become brittle. I guess my water is not as hard as the water in the lake where snail shells allegedly last for centuries. In my softer water (GH about 9) they dissolve over time.

Different types of shellies in a tank this small would not be a good idea. These little guys are fierce! In my 240G, the brevis are the only fish that bite me whenever I reach in there. Again, a colony of multis or similis would be your best bet. You need to be a shell dweller expert to actually see the difference between multis and similis - the reason similis are called that is that they are so _similar_ to multis. 6 always seems to be a good number to start with if you want to make sure you end up with at least one male and female. In case of brevis or occies, more than one pair probably wouldn't work long term, and you would have to make sure to remove the fry before they mature.

Evaporation from my tank is severe - I top off water every other day. When the water level drops below the top of the sponge filter, filtration stops working. Because the kid who was looking after my tanks over Christmas forgot to top off, I lost the occies in that tank, and my wife, who returned from vacation a week before me, had to deal with a stinking mess.

For standard operation, I'd far prefer a sponge filter over a power filter in any small tank where you expect lots of fry. The biofiltration capacity of sponge filters is great, and their capacity to move water is hugely underestimated by most people. Most importantly, you never have to worry about fry being sucked into the filter!

Frank


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

very helpful.

my problem with the sponge filter is that the air pumps always seem so noisy. even the quite ones. if there was a way to have a silent sponge filter i'd use it.

so you think 20 x 10 is as small a footprint as can be used. 16 x 8 won't cut it?

i could order from glass cages but shipping + cost of tank just isn't worth it.

and, how do you keep such small fish in a tank with frontosa? aren't they snacks for them? i would love to have a colony of shell dwellers in the 300G i am planning to fill with large haps but i assumed they would all get eaten.


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## jbr230 (Sep 23, 2007)

cholile: any update on your shellie office tank? im wanting to do the same and wondered if youve set up yours.

fmueller: i really admire your small occie tank, and am going to imitate it someday  how many occies did you have to start with to get a pair? im planning on having a 12x24" footprint tank with occies. what do you recommend to be a good number to start with? thanks a lot!

- jb


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

jbr230, it's on hold at the moment b/c things are busy at the office. please do show pictures and describe any developments with your tank as they unfold in this thread!


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## Tram (May 13, 2009)

fmueller - any reason why you don't run a lid on your tank? Wouldn't that help keep down on some of the evap?

J


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## jbr230 (Sep 23, 2007)

will do, but i dont think it would be anytime soon. within the next 1-2 months or so probably. i still dont know where to get the tank size i want, probably need to have one custom made. also, the occies are seasonal around here, and are fairly expensive :?


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

http://glasscages.com/


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## jbr230 (Sep 23, 2007)

thanks for the suggestion, but im from the Philippines.  shipping alone would definitely cost more than the tank, and tanks here are comparatively cheaper, around 12 USD for a 50g. so having one made for my shellies at that size wouldnt cost me more than ~10 USD. it cost me just a little over 100 USD for my custom made 100g tank and metal stand 

il post pics of my setup as soon as i get it working 

- jb


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

lol. at those prices you may as well custom make every tank you want. certainly every smaller tank you want.


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

jbr230 said:


> it cost me just a little over 100 USD for my custom made 100g tank and metal stand


That settles it. I'm moving to the Philippines. Tropical weather, hot women, and super cheap aquariums. I'm sold.

Thought you might be interested to see my 5.5 gallon shelly setup- It details the setup and some of the obstacles I encountered over the past few months.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/post ... &p=1333142


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## Tram (May 13, 2009)

Broken link..


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## vaypourus (May 20, 2008)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... 51#1333251

Try that?


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