# Building a fishroom



## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I am thinking of starting a fish room with about 10 tanks and then adding slowly over time.

Does anyone have any advice or anything that I should know.

It will be in my basement, unfinished.
I would like to add tanks here and there when I find them cheap enough.

I am thinking of making my own sponge filters and using a blower.
and most likely will box in the tanks and make a "room" and insulate that and then use space heaters or floor board heaters to heat the "room".
Lighting will be mostly cheap shop lights.
Lids on tanks will be plexi glass.
and am thinking about making the stands out of 2x4's.

Anything Else that I need to know?

I plan on starting around mid January, but not really finishing it for a long time, just add to it and work on it when I find the time and money.

Thanks


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I did something like that, but bought or traded, or used store credit from selling fish to buy more tanks, stands, and equipment, until I had over 100 tanks set up on a variety of stands making two 40 foot long rows and one double row almost that long, with a gap so I could get through. I ended up adding some tanks in a T from one side of the double row, so there were three tanks I could only reach from the top and not see what was in them. One of them just had some Kuhli loaches, and months later when I broke down a tank in front of it, there were baby kuhlis in with the adults.


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## newfisher (Dec 20, 2008)

Be sure to cut your plixi-lids slightly larger than the tanks. Otherwise, the plixi will warp over time and if the original fit is too close, they will start to fall inside the tanks.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Plexiglass expands (swells) when it absorbs water, which it will do on the bottom side if used as a top. This causes it to warp toward the water, and it could fall in. Newfisher is right on that.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I have 2 plexi-glass lids on 10 gal tanks and they have been on the tanks for about 6 months and have not warped at all.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

matthew1884 said:


> I have 2 plexi-glass lids on 10 gal tanks and they have been on the tanks for about 6 months and have not warped at all.


 If they haven't warped at all, they are probably some type of clear plastic other than plexiglass. With small tanks, the warping problem may not be very noticeable even if you do have plexiglass. There is less than a foot for any problem to show up in.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

yeah I think it is plexiglass, it has been in my basement for years.
And I still have a few sheets left.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Well plexi does hang around since unlike glass tops, it holds up even when you set it down somewhere it will fall over or that you will step back into it while working.

Any more fish room building experiences out there? My first was an extra bedroom, and it was a matter of moving tanks in from other rooms in the house then filling in the spaces with more tanks. The last one was a 40' by 28' foot addition to the house half sunk into the ground and insulated with 8" fiberglass and 2" foam in the nearly foot thick outside walls. There was a second 2 by 4 wall inside the first with about an inch gap between them. Pretty much whittled down now with my wife's craft area, my daughter's reptiles, and stuff that family members think can be stored in the fish room. :-? :-? It should have been deeper in the ground. :x


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## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

Mcdaphnia: You are incorrect!

*Plexiglass absolutely does not absorb water, period*. All plexiglass is made from acrylic, acrylic is used to build aquariums. It will flex, but does not absorb water.

Plexiglass is made in two different styles, "cast" and "extruded". The cast version tends to be more stable and is less likely to sag or warp. Extruded plexiglass is created by heating plexiglass to almost melting and rolling it out into uniform thin sheets. This process causes the molecules to be streched out of shape. when heat of force (gravity is a force) are applied, extruded plexiglass tends to want to go back to its original shape. Hence, sagging or warping.

I think you have noticed the warping that occurs when acrylic is allow to sag. this can happen in a number of ways, unlevel surface, or uneven heating (usuall caused by lighting and is usually the culprit).

If the following is out of line, I appologize, but guys, please do some research before posting inaccuracies. It WILL be taken as accurate by some people and will cause them problem down the road.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

yeah I knew that mine did not warp or sag but I have known people who have had this problem though.

I did not know that there were different types, thanks for sharing that.
I am glad I have about 3 2ft by 4ft sheets left of the type that does not warp.


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## fabfish (Dec 21, 2009)

well i just built a fish room .. it has 8 stack of 3 75 gallon commercail fish tanks , 3 stacks on two walls and 2 on the other comecting them .. all together theres 24 75 gallon tanks .... some divided into three 25 gallon tanks ..... its pretty cool ... all have boxed sponge filters and heaters ... all have coralife lights ... i bought it all at a storage auction... i bought the storage unit for 40 and there were 128 75 gallon tanks and everything for a pet store ... *** been selling stuff for months ... it was a pet store that went under and lost there storage ...
i have lots of stuff left . ill ship to ya , just ask .... im new to this site so ilkl be around ....
bobby


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

redblufffishguy said:


> Mcdaphnia: You are incorrect!
> 
> *Plexiglass absolutely does not absorb water, period*.
> 
> If the following is out of line, I appologize, but guys, please do some research before posting inaccuracies. It WILL be taken as accurate by some people and will cause them problem down the road.


 Sorry I guess I shouldn't believe what the product specs say and believe you instead. If they were advertising claims by the manufacturer, I'd see your point. But what advertising benefit would there be to saying your product absorbs water, unless it's a diaper?


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I do not believe plastic can absorb water.

Where did you read that it did just curious?


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

matthew1884 said:


> I do not believe plastic can absorb water.
> 
> Where did you read that it did just curious?


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2635902/

http://www.kaysons.in/acrylic/physicalproperties.pdf

http://ib.cnea.gov.ar/~experim1/acryl_p.htm

http://www.plasticballs.com/acryl.htm

None of these were where I first read it. which was a book, but they all state acrylic, 
which is a plastic, absorbing a similar amount of water and expanding.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

well on plastic balls it states 
GENERAL DESCRIPTION 
Acrylics (Polymethyl-Methacrylate or PMMA) is an amorphous thermoplastic which is optically transparent, *unaffected by moisture*, and offers a high strength-to-weight ratio. Common trade names of acrylic include PlexiglasÂ®, LuciteÂ®, and AcryliteÂ®.

the same on 
http://ib.cnea.gov.ar/~experim1/acryl_p.htm
Acrylics (Polymethyl-Methacrylate or PMMA) is an amorphous thermoplastic which is optically transparent, *unaffected by moisture*, and offers a high strength-to-weight ratio. Common trade names of acrylic include Plexiglas Â®, Lucite Â®, and Acrylite Â®.

Acrylics offer high light transmittance with a Refractive Index of 1.49 and can be easily heat-formed without loss of optical clarity.* Prolonged exposure to moisture, or even total immersion in water, does not significantly effect the mechanical or optical properties of acrylic.* Most commercial acrylics have been UV stabilized for good weatherability and resistance prolonged sunlight exposure.

So there are three that say it is unaffected by moisture.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

matthew1884 said:


> well on plastic balls it states
> GENERAL DESCRIPTION
> Acrylics (Polymethyl-Methacrylate or PMMA) is an amorphous thermoplastic which is optically transparent, *unaffected by moisture*, and offers a high strength-to-weight ratio. Common trade names of acrylic include PlexiglasÂ®, LuciteÂ®, and AcryliteÂ®.
> 
> ...


 You are adding emphasis where it does not exist in the original. editing out facts and misrepresenting, why? Yes, of course plexy can be submerged in water, but you edited out the fact that it does absorb water and expand. This does not hurt the plexy, but if it's only wet on one side, it will temporarily expand on the wet side causing it to warp. Take it off, it staightens back up, flip it, it moves the sag to the other side. This is actually an advantage in tank building since the expansion helps counter the bowing caused by the weight of water.

Plexiglass tops are cheap and don't get damaged as easily as glass tops. Depending on the tank and the type of filtration and gaps in the top that all affect how wet the top gets, and the owner's tolerance, warping may be acceptable, but it still warps.

*This topic is about starting a fish room and this OT thing about a plexy top should all be edited/removed from this thread. It is off topic and argumentative for no reason.*


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## BirdFish (Apr 27, 2009)

I agree..

I am kind of trying to do a fish room as well. How are you going to do filters and water changes? I am trying to put all my tanks on a single sump using PVC overflow and pumps. It has not been as easy as I imagined. Any thoughts on the issue?


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

I am planning on using a blower, hooked to sponge filters, and then the tanks that need extra filtration I will throw some HOB when needed.

Water changes will be drained to the drain in the basement floor and then filled back up with my python.

And one last thing I did not edit anything I simply copied and pasted from the sites you posted. 
Also not trying to be argumentative just trying to get facts straight.

you provided the evidence and I am showing what it said.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

Sorry If you thought I was trying to argue.


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## Dragonkeeper (Feb 9, 2007)

Well working for a few years in the plastics industry I'm going to have to agree with McDaphnia on this. Big differences between plexyglass and acrylic.

Keeper


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

i don't have space for a fish room in my house unless i take over the dining room, i have thought about renting a climate controlled storage space, but realized that water might be hard to come by


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

cjacob316 said:


> i don't have space for a fish room in my house unless i take over the dining room, i have thought about renting a climate controlled storage space, but realized that water might be hard to come by


 Unless they will let you tap into the rainwater off the roofs.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

cjacob316 said:


> i don't have space for a fish room in my house unless i take over the dining room, i have thought about renting a climate controlled storage space, but realized that water might be hard to come by


 Unless they will let you tap into the rainwater off the roofs.


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## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

I tried to bite my tongue and let this go, but I can't....

I apologize in advance for being off topic one more time, last one though I promise.

Plexiglas is a brand name. Just as most people associate Kleenex with tissue.
*Plexiglas is made of acrylic, there is not a "big difference" between the two.*

If you have a clear plastic like substance that absorbed any noticeable amount of water, it was not Plexiglas which again is acrylic. Maybe lexan, or some other non-acrylic based product.

To clarify, the information I posted was not my own, I DID my research before I posted. My information came from a California based company called Interstate Plastics.

So please do not "Just believe me" take it from the plastic professionals that I gleamed it from.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I guarantee that if I post it, there is accurate information to back it up.

Lastly, I was never argumentative, I just stated that you were incorrect, there is no argument there!


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

redblufffishguy

true; thank you for the info and I did not feel like any of us were arguing.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

redblufffishguy said:


> ....
> Lastly, I was never argumentative, I just stated that you were incorrect, there is no argument there!


 Let's get back to the fish room topic. And certainly falsely claiming I'm incorrect about this is argumentative. You know you left out the "rest of the story" when you selectively cut and pasted from those sites. There is no argument about who is wrong on this. Fact. Many people have warpy plastic tops. Fact. Some plastic tops you could get had ribs along the long sides to control warping and provide a ledge to hang the top to the tank. Fact. What I have said is backed up by the research and the facts. Fact. What you have done is quote real sites but out of context in order to be silly and pass on misinformation.

Using a single sump for a number of tanks that are on different levels and different sizes can be complicated. One way to do this is to run plastic rain gutter behind the tanks and drill each tank so that water overflows into the gutter and eventually each gutter section is collected into the sump. Return water which should always last thing go through a UC sterilizer or ozone, can be brought up in pipes and there should be a valve so that each tank can be adjusted for suitable flow rate depending on volume, biomass, and type of fish. If the system is relatively slow, I've seen plastic air valves used. However much water is being added determines the outflow rate so you only have to worry about clogging and changes in the system affecting other parts, as long as the overflows are big enough to handle any planned inflow of filtered water. Automated systems that first partially drain each tank then refill are more efficient in changing water, but if you are filtering, you can dump water returning from the tanks, and replace it with new to do a partial water change.


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## BirdFish (Apr 27, 2009)

I have never used sponge filters, but it seems like it is missing a large component of mechanical filtration. Am I working too hard to make multiple tanks go through PVC overflow and sump?


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

sponge filters are all bio not really mechanical.

it works the same as an under gravel it works for many tank, with the proper air flow and water changes.

I don't want to drill all tanks and pump water back to multiple tanks.
I think sponges would work best because you make them for pretty cheap. and they do work.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

BirdFish said:


> I have never used sponge filters, but it seems like it is missing a large component of mechanical filtration. Am I working too hard to make multiple tanks go through PVC overflow and sump?


 A central system can make sense in a large pet shop, fish distributor, or a large fish breeding facility. But it usually means at least two systems, if you want to keep fish of different water types. They save time but also add expenses in equipment and electricity.

Sponge filters are ideal for many fish, especially fry. They do have a mechanical component, but unfortunately you the hobbyist are it. When you do a water change, you drain water into a bucket, and then shake or squeeze out the sponge filter in the water to be discarded. Unlike chlorinated tap water doing that won't hurt the bio part of the filter, and you just mechanically removed lots of solid matter from the tank. Some large cichlids will eat or at least dismember a sponge filter so you can't use them for everything. There is also the mattenfilter as an option. I used to have all my tanks with these and have already converted a few tanks back.


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## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

Well Mcdaphnia, we do agree on one thing....sponge filters are the bomb. I use them on every tank. they are inexpensive, multiple filters can be run on one air pump, and they hold huge amounts of bacteria.

I am going to post a step by step on how to make your own for less than $3.00 on the DIY section later this weekend.

I also agree that if you are going to keep fish from one water chemistry you could go with a sump, but if you do not have experience it is tricky.

Happy holidays to everyone!

RBFG


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

can't wait to see your instructions.

I have a model to follow that a guy I know made and I am going to just copy it.

Where do you get your sponges at?


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Swiss Tropicals in Columbus, Ohio. It's an online store. You don't actually go to Columbus to get the sponge.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

to solve the multiple tanks on one sump issue, i will offer up a suggestion based on a thing i saw in a store recently

they had three tiers of small tanks, and each tank was diveded into 4 compartments, the water entered on the right end of the top tank, and could flow through all the compartments, the water would drain from the left end of the top tank into the left end of the tank below it, then that tank drains from the right end into the right end of the bottom tank, then that tank finally drains into the sump from the left end of the bottom tank, where the water is pumped back to the top tank, this would actually make using a sump a little easier


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## Number6 (Mar 13, 2003)

Mcdaphnia said:


> *This topic is about starting a fish room and this OT thing about a plexy top should all be edited/removed from this thread. It is off topic and argumentative for no reason.*


Thank you to all for getting back on topic and helping the original poster. I do not see any need to remove the tangential threads about plexiglass and water absorbtion. Seems relevant to anyone looking into multiple tank coverings.

On the topic of sponge filters, I would also give these a big :thumb: and strongly recommend building MORE DIY sponge filters than you have tanks so that as they age, get broken, lost, etc. you have a ready made supply. If we get those instructions for a filter at $3 per unit, then even more reason to make extra!


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

cjacob316 said:


> to solve the multiple tanks on one sump issue, i will offer up a suggestion based on a thing i saw in a store recently
> 
> they had three tiers of small tanks, and each tank was diveded into 4 compartments, the water entered on the right end of the top tank, and could flow through all the compartments, the water would drain from the left end of the top tank into the left end of the tank below it, then that tank drains from the right end into the right end of the bottom tank, then that tank finally drains into the sump from the left end of the bottom tank, where the water is pumped back to the top tank, this would actually make using a sump a little easier


 Every once in a while you see systems like these on eBay or Aquabid from some pet shop that has either upgraded or closed down. One near me lost their lease and the tanks were set outside in the parking lot where they filled with rain water and broke. You could see each level was really one long tank with dividers.


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## cjacob316 (Dec 4, 2008)

this store used it for saltwater fish, and kept single fish in each smaller section, not the best situation to keep fish, but it did aid in keeping the water volume up which is important, especially in salt systems, i just thought this was an interesting way to run multiple tanks to one sump, only having one pump to deal with makes life easy imo


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## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

Sorry guy, spent the weekend away from home....I will get the photos and instruction for the cheap and easy sponge filter I mentioned up this evening!

RBFG


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## redblufffishguy (Jul 16, 2009)

3.00ish sponge filter:









Three pack of sponges for Aqua Clear filter: 5.39 at Pet smart









6" section of lift tube: (36" for 5.25 at Petsmart) I drill the bottom portion to allow water to flow more uniformly. Notice the small "chip" at the bottom edge, I cut that to turn the lift tube into a drill for the foam block.









put the "chipped" end of the lift tube on the top of the sponge and quickly but gently twist it back and forth. in a few minutes you will easilly "drill" a hole into the sponge. once at the desired depth (I use about 3"), remove the lift tube, and pull out the tube of foam left by the drilling.









Cut 6" of rigid airline tube (36" for 3.00 at Petsmart) and insert it into the hole drilled at the top of the lift tube. I leave mine above the drilled holes so the air can only go up.









Reinsert the lift tube into the sponge.

I found a neat little trick to keep these from floating. simply remove the lift tube assembly from the sponge and emerse the sponge into boiling water for 1-2 minutes. rinse it and it will sink!









Last, put it into your tank and attach to an air pump! This is a new Multi tank, only four inhabitants (Thanks Lauren), but hope to have babies soon!

Hope this helps, 13.62 total for all the parts, but there is enough lift tube and rigid airline to make about 10 of them. It works out to about 3.00 each!! And you know the sponge is safe because it is made for aquariums!

RBFG

(sorry about the links, for some reason i can never get them to show up correctly, but the photos are posted and the links do work if you cut and paste them.)


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## BirdFish (Apr 27, 2009)

thanks for the info. looks like it would work pretty well


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

RedBluff, It would be easier for future people if you just edited your post and removed the img codes so that the links will be clickable.

Matthew, I see you are in Westminster are you a member of the Rocky Mountain Cichlid Association?


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## fishEH (Sep 15, 2008)

Here ya go.


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## matthew1884 (Jul 24, 2009)

*IrkedCitizen*
I am not right now but I am joining in January.
Are you apart of it?


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## IrkedCitizen (Apr 26, 2007)

Yes I am a member.


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