# Stocking suggestions 40 breeder



## Chandon (Apr 25, 2017)

I am curious which species would best fit a 40 gallon breeder tank 36x18. My heart is set on Labidochromis Caeruleus & Metriaclima lombardoi mainly because of their color & they are readily available in my area. I've heard yellow labs are a great semi-aggressive Mbuna and Kenyi are aggressive but will not dominate the tank. I plan on having 2 large rock stacks in each corner of the aquarium & providing additional caves & wood to comfortably house all fish.


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

Your odds of a happy life with kenyi (lombardoi) in a 3ft tank are near zero... They are a very feisty fish and can be fine in tanks if the tank is large enough, kept in the proper ratios, and with the proper tank mates. Unfortunately, none of those three things are going to be possible for you. Now the good news! You can probably have a small group of the caeruleus in your tank shooting for 1Male and 4 or so females. You can probably get your hands on a single demasoni to add some additional color if you would like.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

M. lombardoi can absolutely dominate a tank, and are ill suited for a 40 gallon aquarium.

The best recommendation is Chindongo (formerly Pseudotropheus) saulosi. A group of three males, and eight females would be ideal.

Otherwise, Yellow Labs would be fine, and a singular Chindongo demasoni.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

This doesn't sound too bad either... :lol: :lol:



Aaron S said:


> Your odds of a happy life with kenyi (lombardoi) in a 3ft tank are near zero... They are a very feisty fish and can be fine in tanks if the tank is large enough, kept in the proper ratios, and with the proper tank mates. Unfortunately, none of those three things are going to be possible for you. Now the good news! You can probably have a small group of the caeruleus in your tank shooting for 1Male and 4 or so females. You can probably get your hands on a single demasoni to add some additional color if you would like.


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## Chandon (Apr 25, 2017)

Reality is a cruel to our hopes sometimes. What are your thoughts on Iodotropheus sprengerae? I really love their color. Would that be a species I could run? Also this is my 2nd recommendation on the Chindongo but I haven't had any luck finding any in my area. Do you know of a good place I could find them?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Order them online. Rusties would be OK but I would do only 1m:4f. I'm going to lock your other thread and direct Members here.


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## Chandon (Apr 25, 2017)

I called into my local fish shop today & asked about there selection. They told me they have mixed Mbuna & Sunburst Peacock. The owner told me he would give me a deal on 7 for $65 because he is in the process of moving the store & said the less fish to worry about the better for him. I want to support my local store as it will still be the only local store after the move. Would these work at all? Maybe even if I only take 5 1m:4f just curious as these are my local option. I'm also not opposed to a mixed tank. He quoted me $4 each for any I wanted


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Definitely not. A 36" tank requires special selection of species...a mixed selection is likely to have zero individuals suitable for a 36" tank. Starburst peacock is a hybrid...not what will work well in a 36" tank.


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## Chandon (Apr 25, 2017)

I have stocked this aquarium with 6 yellow lab. Right now I have 1 clear male but it looks like another fish is starting to show male color & the rest appear to be female. I've been feeding them tropical flakes and frozen spirulina brine shrimp any suggestions on a good spirulina flake?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Try the product reviews section, or a post in the nutrition (and Illness) forum. I like New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula 1mm sinking pellets. It has the spirulina and other good things in it.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Chandon said:


> I have stocked this aquarium with 6 yellow lab. Right now I have 1 clear male but it looks like another fish is starting to show male color & the rest appear to be female. I've been feeding them tropical flakes and frozen spirulina brine shrimp any suggestions on a good spirulina flake?


If you've just got the Labs, spirulina flake isn't a necessity. They aren't vegetarians.


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

What does "starting to show male color" mean for a monomorphic species?


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## Chandon (Apr 25, 2017)

Aaron S said:


> What does "starting to show male color" mean for a monomorphic species?


There is a very good chance I am uninformed so forgive me. It's the only other fish in the tank with a black anal fin. So they are difficult to differ by sex. I thought I would be looking for the larger fish with all fins showing a deep black.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Males and females of top quality Labs will have black in their anal fins.


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

There is a lot of mis-information out there for yellow labs which is fueled by the massive amount of hybrids scattered around (and being sold as pure by big box stores). As fogel suggested, there are no visual differences between male and female labs other than the vent. There are some leading indicators on many fish but just remember the males and females do have the same markings and such. When they are getting frisky, you will notice the black stripes getting darker in color. The larger fish is just the most aggressive towards the food which could mean male or may not.


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## Chandon (Apr 25, 2017)

Well with the end goal of breeding these fish what should the game plan be? Let them mature to adulthood & then vent and sepperate additional males?


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## Aaron S (Apr 4, 2015)

If you have an end goal of breeding yellow labs, I would post pictures of each of the fish you have. Fogel is very good at identifying if yellow labs are pure or not. It would be really unfortunate if you were unknowingly assisting in distributing more unpure yellow labs to the market.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

That's a good idea...you would also be wise to choose the absolute best vendor so you start with quality specimens. Make sure they keep the yellow labs in a separate tank and label it with the scientific name: Labidochromis caeruleus.

For a breeder tank, no substrate and no décor.


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## Chandon (Apr 25, 2017)

I don't plan on breeding for resale. I would just be giving them to friends or keeping them myself. I don't expect to be successful anytime soon but I'll try to get the best possible picture of each fish.


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## Chandon (Apr 25, 2017)

These are the pictures of my final setup & all of my fish. Please let me know if you see any hybrid type so I can try to separate them out. Thanks!



http://imgur.com/8ddAz


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## Chandon (Apr 25, 2017)

I wanted to give an update now that my colony is established and thriving. I currently have the aquarium stocked with 11 fish. I have 9 Yellow Lab (5 Male 4 Female) 1 female Kenyi/Demasoni hybrid & a convict cichlid I rescued from a co-worker. I have had all these fish together for the past 2 months. They are between 2.5-4 inches and while there is some aggression I have provided quite a few hiding places and all the fish seem to be extremely happy. There are no signs of fin damage & every fish has a "home" in the tank. I feed them Algaemax pellets & supplement with cichlid flakes and cichlid gold pellets along with the occasional frozen mysis shrimp.
I did a lot of research before setting my tank up and I have to say a lot of what I read was incorrect or seemed to be from over cautious owners. The Yellow Labs and Convict completely ignore each other. The only fish that the convict chases is the Demasoni/Kenyi because of the very dark stripes on its body that are similar to the convict. I have 1 dominant male with jet black fins & 2 egg spots, 1 sub dominant with dark black fins & 1 egg spot and the 3rd place male has a black mask and dark yellow striping on his body. He has the most color but has been relegated to a cave that he spends most time in. My female hybrid shows aggression toward my female Yellow labs but is kept in check by the convict. I have come to recognize playful or "maintenance" aggression and when the Hybrid steps out of line the Convict is right there chasing her off. 
As of last month I had 2 holding females. I watched my dominant male breed with my biggest and most colorful female and then a few days later I noticed an additional smaller female holding as well. I let them stay in the aquarium for 3 weeks monitoring them closely at feeding time to make sure they hadn't swallowed their eggs. I stripped them 24 days after breeding and yielded 21 fry. They had a little bit of egg sac when I stripped them but within 2-3 days the sac was gone. I did not use a tumbler for the fry just a breeder tank made of mesh that I kept close enough to the HOB filter to keep good water flow and oxygen. They are now 1 week without the egg sacs and growing well. I have them in the same breeder net inside my 20 gallon long tank. They are the only fish in that tank and I change 7 gallons every Thursday and Sunday. I have a heater in this aquarium that keeps the temp at 82F. I feed them 2-3 times a day with extra feedings on the weekend when I am home. I feed them First Bites, crushed cichlid flake & crushed cichlid pellets.
I just wanted to give an update and put a little more info out there based on my experience. My yellow labs are great and my 2 additions have done great with them. This is my first time keeping African Cichlids and it has been very fun. They are beautiful and unique fish with lots of personality.
Here are some pics of everything


http://imgur.com/uDEnR


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

What I see here is a group of Yellow Labs,1 single convict,and 1 single female Kenyi(does not look mixed with demasoni to me). In a 40 breeder? Well here's the thing this could/might work for awhile. What happens when the Kenyi realizes she is the baddest fish in the tank though? A couple months is not nearly enough time to discern a successful stock of mbuna.It's closer to a couple years. The convict will likely be fine in there,most often Convicts are much more aggressive when kept in pairs,and there are fry present. The issue with keeping a convict with mbuna usually stems from the simple fact that they are from completely different regions of the world,and are used to different water parameters. Likely a non issue at this point,since the convict is now in your tank,and adjusted to the tanks water. If your fish are all doing fine,and you are enjoying them that is all that matters. Just know that the advice given in this thread was the best anyone could have received,and while you did not completely ignore it,you made some changes that went against the advice. If the Kenyi proves troublesome,or the convict does not thrive,it will be due to being placed in an improper set of circumstances. When experienced keepers say not to keep a particular fish in a certain way,try not to disregard that as overly cautious behavior. It actually comes from experience. Trial and error experience. I had a female kenyi in a 4 ft 55 gallon tank,with all mbuna at one time.All was fine for almost a year,then she decided she was the dominant fish in the tank,and bullied every single fish not named M.Auratus.Ultimately I was forced to remove the Kenyi,and later the auratus because they were causing harm to my Yellow Lab colony,and Rusty harem. I'm not saying the same thing will happen with your tank. But please be aware that it can. Kenyi will become aggressive,in a way that will make your all your other fish stressed,including the convict. No amount of rocks can help the small footprint issue of a 40 breeder box. That being said,I kept my Red Zebra harem in a 40 breeder box for a few months during tank transitions,and my male was very well behaved. He had been in a 55 gallon for a couple years with the group before that so they were all well established as a group,which may have been a factor in his tamed behavior. I even considered keeping them there long term,but the fish would certainly be better served with more space so I decided to go with the bigger tank. All things considered ,everyone on the forum wants only to see your tank succeed,and for you to have happy healthy fish,I don't think anyone should judge another's choices,but please remember the advice given,and know what place it comes from.


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## Chandon (Apr 25, 2017)

I actually thought everyone on here gave me awesome advice. I did a lot of research across all channels and that's where I read a lot of conflicting info. From the pics I posted it looks like a kenyi but I will try to get closer more detailed pics. Her dorsal fin has patterning on it that looks like a Demasoni with different color. Basically there is a marble type pattern rather than the clean look of bars. I did a lot of research on the Convict and found many people were keeping a single fish with yellow labs with no problem.
People were so rigid with their ideas on how to keep these fish. It really seemed like they want to force a style of fish keeping. I want to show my experience mixing it up a little for people who can't have 4ft+ tanks


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