# Hormoned or Female?



## Opulent (Jan 20, 2012)

Hi All,

A while back I picked up this Aulonocara sp. which was labelled (incorrectly) as 'Nyassae'. I previously posted asknig for some ID help with this fish, but it looks like it was too early to properly tell - the original post was here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=246375

The original photos I uploaded of this fish (and when I originally bought it) showed a lot of colour, but over time, this fish has progressively lost more and more of its colour to the point that I either think it's a female or it's a male that was hormoned by the LFS. The fish is very healthy, really lively and shows some aggression to my P.Electra, so although it's not 'top dog', it does have a mid-level rank in the pecking order, so I wouldn't expect a male to be this dull unless it was bottom of the ranking.

I notice that the dorsal fin now has a prominent orange band, which I see a lot in photos of females, making me think it might be a female...

Any thoughts on this?

Original photos:





































Current photos:



















Thanks very much in advance.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

The orange anal fin is a characteristic of A. jacobfriebergi, which I don't think your fish is. Perhaps you can vent the fish to determine the gender? If the fish was hormoned, you will never know through visual clues.

Here is an article on determining your fishes gender. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gender.php


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Personaly I would be suprised if a male coloured down that much. But yep please vent it and let us know.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

How big was the fish when you bought it versus now? Looks like a totally different fish. Looks like some of the nice fin shape is gone however I was told that even hormoned females will maintain their pointed fin shape. Only way to know for sure is to do as everybody suggested and vent. I see a larger male peacock in that pic above but don't know for certain what he is exactly. If it is a male you could move him to another tank and see if he colors. That is the sad thing about hormoned fish, if in fact this fish has been hormoned, is it may never color back up no matter what you do.


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## Opulent (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks guys. I've been out of the country last week and will be next week, so I'll see about trying to net this fish and attempt venting when I'm back and settled.

Razor, the fish was about 3 inches when I bought it and it's now close to 4 inches. Very recently, it's turned a bit darker than the last photos show, but still displaying the same mildy aggressive behaviour, so it's certainly not stressed or bothered. The other male peacock you mentioned is my Aulonocara Rubescens. He's in an all male tank with a Venustus, Fryeri, Rubescens, Stuartgranti Maleri, P. Electra, juvenile Jacobfreibergi, and juvenile Stuartgranti Usisya. I do have a spare hospital tank, so perhaps I will also try keeping him on his own for a bit to see what happens.

Thanks again, and I'll update when I know / see more.


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## Opulent (Jan 20, 2012)

OK, further update on this fish. I've netted the fish and had a go at venting - it's very tricky with this fish, but my conclusion is that it's male. Of course, I could be wrong, as this is the first time I've vented a fish...

From what I could tell, the anus is tiny (hard to spot until you look closely) and the vent was also very small. A little larger than the anus but not as large as many of the photos of female vents I've seen on the internet (I had a good look at several sites and examples to get a good idea of what to look for). This still totally puzzles me, as everything else about this fish currently looks like it's female, especially at nearly 4" in size - no pointed dorsal / anal fins, lack of colour, etc.

However, compared to the original photos I took when I first got it, it looks male with all that colour. The only thing left now is to isolate the fish and see whether it starts to colour up...

Any further thoughts? :?


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Maybe fogelhund can speak to this but I always thought a hormoned female would keep the pointed fins just not the color.


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## Michael_M (May 31, 2012)

Razor is correct that hormoned females keep the pointed fins, unless they get pecked off then I think they regrow rounded?

My question to you is how did the fishes colour fade? Was it gradual, over the course of a few weeks? Or sudden?


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## Opulent (Jan 20, 2012)

The colour fading was gradual, over the course of a few weeks. It's since remained the same for about a couple of months...


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Michael_M said:


> Razor is correct that hormoned females keep the pointed fins, unless they get pecked off then I think they regrow rounded?


Good question. I think with hormoning there is just so much we don't know. I wish we didn't have to know but it is becoming very apparent especially in my area that I am going to have to learn. Makes me very angry.

Still don't know if this fish has been hormoned or a dominance issue. Just have to wait and see. If he is in another tank right now you could put in some smaller peacocks and see if he becomes dominant his colors come back.


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## Opulent (Jan 20, 2012)

Yeah. very bizarre, and annoying!! I have a plan to put this fish into my emergency tank in a couple of weeks, so I'll see what happens with it's colours as a lone fish. I'm leaning more and more to taking the fish back to the LFS and donating it...

If anything interesting happens, I'll post an update. Thanks for the input anyway guys!


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Opulent said:


> Yeah. very bizarre, and annoying!! I have a plan to put this fish into my emergency tank in a couple of weeks, so I'll see what happens with it's colours as a lone fish. I'm leaning more and more to taking the fish back to the LFS and donating it...
> 
> If anything interesting happens, I'll post an update. Thanks for the input anyway guys!


What size is the emergency tank and how many fish will be in there with him/her? If it is a male and there is a dominance issue which caused him to color down then you will want to try him in another tank where he will be with other peacocks/haps and he will be close to if not at the top of the pecking order. If you drop him in a 10g all by himself I don't think he will start to color back up. Could be wrong though.


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## Opulent (Jan 20, 2012)

The emergency tank is 15g - and I don't have any 'spare' peacocks/haps I could take from the main tank to put in with him. The main tank is fortunately well settled for an all male tank, so I don't want to upset the balance too much by pulling additional fish out for the sake experimenting (and don't say go buy some more, because that's too tempting!!!)


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Opulent said:


> The emergency tank is 15g - and I don't have any 'spare' peacocks/haps I could take from the main tank to put in with him. The main tank is fortunately well settled for an all male tank, so I don't want to upset the balance too much by pulling additional fish out for the sake experimenting (and don't say go buy some more, because that's too tempting!!!)


Just go buy more!!!


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## Opulent (Jan 20, 2012)

13razorbackfan said:


> Just go buy more!!!


 :lol: **** you!!


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## ChoxRox (Sep 8, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> Opulent said:
> 
> 
> > The emergency tank is 15g - and I don't have any 'spare' peacocks/haps I could take from the main tank to put in with him. The main tank is fortunately well settled for an all male tank, so I don't want to upset the balance too much by pulling additional fish out for the sake experimenting (and don't say go buy some more, because that's too tempting!!!)
> ...


Maybe not from the same place...


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

ChoxRox said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > Opulent said:
> ...


That's the truth. I have had the same issues with several LFS's in my area. Started ordering online and glad I did.


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