# Neetroplus hybrids?



## Bobcampoli (Feb 27, 2005)

Greetings! I'm wondering if there are any Neetroplus hybrids commonly available in the hobby?
I got what I thought was a juvenile Nicaraguensis, but there is no mid - body stripe, only a spot.
It is round. About the size of a dime
Mature male Nics show an indistinct spot mid body, and Neetroplus show (from pictures I've seen) an vertically elongated mid body spot. To me, from the pictures I've seen they both share a similar facial profile.
My fish is about 2 inches. 
His(?) behavior is rather fearless, but not aggressive. His tankmates are an adult Convict (male), adult Vieja synspila (female), sub-adult Firemouth and a Synodontis eupterous (adult male) and a Sailfin Pleco - but not a gibbiceps. 
They all live in a 75 gallon tank.
Thanks in advance.
Bob


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

You have a regular Neet. Neets get the rounded face as well!

But showing a pic will help as well! Could you post a pic of him? But from what you are describing it sounds like a regular Neet!


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## Vincent (May 7, 2004)

Post a picture. I doubt a nematopus would hybridize with a nicaraguensis.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Vincent said:


> Post a picture. I doubt a nematopus would hybridize with a nicaraguensis.


i dont, they are so similar it wouldnt surprise me in the least.

post a pic, we can tell you.


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

I agree with gage any cichlid is able to spawn with a different specie and hybridize! It could be quite possible it could be a hybrid! I am just saying that Neets also get the rounded face and more than likely it is just a regular Neet but a pic will help!


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

it is very easy to tel the difference, is the black a vertical stripe or a spot?


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## Bobcampoli (Feb 27, 2005)

Thanks for your input. I will try to get a picture this weekend to help you with identification. I believe it is a Neetroplus, but wasn't sure. 
I'm happy it's a Neet ... I've never had one before. It's actually the first live one I remember seeing. I got it at a big box store, and like I said, it was identified as a Nic. but didn't quite match the others. 
I remember, years ago, buying a Royal Pleco about one and a half inches long for my 29 gallon community. I had also previously purchased what was sold as a South American bumblebee cat. It actually was an Asian bumblebee. It ate my new pleco! 
Thanks again, and I'll get those pictures soon.
Bob - Philadelphia, PA


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## Vincent (May 7, 2004)

Honestly, I think it should be easy to distinguish nematopus from nicaraguensis. nematopus has a grey background color whereas nicaraguensis is bronze/light brown/gold. Also check the fins. nematopus fins are basically solid whereas nicaraguensis males have the spotting in the photo below and females have iridescent blue dorsals.

nematopus is this color:









nicaraguensis is this color:


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## Hrafen (Feb 19, 2005)

Will Neets and Nics hybridise? The answer is, it is possible. Is it likely to happen, again possible, but unlikely. Very unlikely in the wild, maybe in a large community aquaria, maybe more so if one male and one female of each species is in a tank with no other potential mates.

Consider it this way.

Put a Convict and a Sajica in a tank, one is male one is female. They will mate. Their fry will be fertile, can breed. Will do with either species, or with other hybrids of that mix. These species are very closely related, to the point it raises the issue of whether they are actually seperate species. Put a male of one of the above and a female of both in a tank, species specific seems to take precedence but the cross breeding is also highly likely. Put in two pairs, one of each species and crossing is very unlikely.

Try this with a Convict and a Firemouth. They will pair off and breed. Their fry are not fertile. They are in a biological sense mules. Sure those offspring will try to breed but will not succeed. This is what happens when species not so closely related try this. Put a lone of one species in with a pair of the other and the lone will not get breeding opportunity. It simply will not happen, preference runs with the species.

Neets and Nics may in some ways look similar but they are not closely related. Breeding is unlikely to happen and the fry are more unlikely to be able to continue the new strain.

The question it really raises is what is a species?

Think on it like this. If a Horse breeds with a Zebra you get a foal which is fertile can breed can propogate, can perpetuate the species. If a horse breeds with a donkey you do not, it is a mule. The question becomes this. When is it a seperate species and when is it merely skin colour? An issue which is far wider than simply fish (or horses).

Just a thought.

Putting the shades on. 8)


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## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Hrafen said:


> Neets and Nics may in some ways look similar but they are not closely related. 8)


 Neets and Nics are the only members of the Hypsophyrs genus. Since they are the only members of the the SAME genus, they are therefore the most genetically similar and are closely related. Actually are thought to be a monophylitic group and have fairly recent common ancestory, but certainly members of the same genus can be seen to be closely related.

I'm pretty sure that the Hypsophyrs genus is part of the Ampholophine clad, so a viable cross could probably be possible with just about any member of the Ampholophine group (?). Given the fact that CA from different clads , crossed with each other ( ie. Amphlophine X Herichthine) usually produces viable offspring, one would certainly expect a cross with in the same genus, to produce viable offspring.

How readily these 2 species would hybirdize is hard to say, but given the ease that most CA will hybirdize with each other, even ones that are more distantly related (and still produce viable offspring) , a Nic X Neet cross Should be more then possible.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

bernie comeau said:


> Hrafen said:
> 
> 
> > Neets and Nics may in some ways look similar but they are not closely related. 8)
> ...


the Genus of neets is Neetroplus, no longer Hypsophrys, no? but regardless, they are genetically pretty closely related, and what does it matter, i convict can hybridize with a Jaguar, and a neet and nic are a lot closer related then a Jag and a Con.


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## Bobcampoli (Feb 27, 2005)

Howdy!
Well, here are three pictures. Not the best, but hopefully enough to get a firm ID. However, at the LFS today I saw two Neets and they didn't match my fish at all. At least, the spot differs and the mouth was smaller.

























Thanks for your help!


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## Vincent (May 7, 2004)

That's definitely a nicaraguensis.


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## Bobcampoli (Feb 27, 2005)

Thanks Vincent. And Gage, Bernie etc ... I appreciate the help. I'm happy it's a Nic ... that's what I wanted. I almost brought one of the Neets I saw today, but am glad I did not. There are already enough fish in the tank and a Nic gets pretty big. 
An interesting thing I noticed in my tank. My Adult female Vieja synspila seems enamoured of my adult male convict and vice-versa. However I think V. synspila are open spawners? Is that true? She will never fit in the convict's cave .. it's a 6 inch clay pot with the bottom knocked out, which is the entrance.
Thanks again!
Bob


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

its a male nic to! lol.

im sure a syn could produce viable fry with a convict, it seems almost all CA cichlids are capable of breeding with eachother.


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## Bobcampoli (Feb 27, 2005)

A male? You can tell at that size? Then where is the stripe? I thought all nics had mid-body stripes until maturity? The females retain the stripe, and in males it is reduced to a mid-body spot?
Hmmm ... 
Thanks!
Bob


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

looks male to me anyway, females generally have a shiny blue face, does he have any signs of spotting in the dorsal fin?


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## Bobcampoli (Feb 27, 2005)

Yes he has spotting in the dorsal. I still am confused about the lack of a mid body stripe. At only about 2 and a half inches he is certainly still juvenile. I thought they retained the stripe until adulthood?
Bob


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