# My Flowerhorn is fading!



## Bkeen

Here's some before pictures:




























and after:


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## gage

looken good, he will likely fade all the way to


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## Bkeen

gage said:


> looken good, he will likely fade all the way to


Maybe he will fade all the way. He had a light patch around his mouth and eyes for a few days, then overnight it turned to the above picture. He was bought at a LFS labeled as a JD. Everyone said it's a real low grade flowerhorn, but I love it. It's an awesome fish with tons of personality.

Will everything that fades turn red or how does that work? Will he get his horizontal line of spots back???


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## imfbrad

do all flowerhorns fade? why do they fade?


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## lil mama

No, all FH don't fade. That is sweeeeet Bkeen :thumb: really sweet. You lucky, lucky dog!!! I hope mine fades. You kinda have to wait to see what he's going to fade to. Without knowing anything about what he came from. He could go yellow, orange or red or any combination of the three colors. His flowerline may fade or it may stay or a part of it may stay. I personally like it when the flowerline completely fades and the body fades from one color to the next. Like a yellow head and orange body. That to me is a stunning fish. Feed him bloodworm cubes maybe his kok will grow more. How big is he? Again, very nice! :dancing:


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## Bkeen

lil mama said:


> No, all FH don't fade. That is sweeeeet Bkeen :thumb: really sweet. You lucky, lucky dog!!! I hope mine fades. You kinda have to wait to see what he's going to fade to. Without knowing anything about what he came from. He could go yellow, orange or red or any combination of the three colors. His flowerline may fade or it may stay or a part of it may stay. I personally like it when the flowerline completely fades and the body fades from one color to the next. Like a yellow head and orange body. That to me is a stunning fish. Feed him bloodworm cubes maybe his kok will grow more. How big is he? Again, very nice! :dancing:


Thanks! He is six inches or so. Like I said earlier, it came mislabled as a JD so its origin is unknown. I'll have to pick up some bloodworms and try it!


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## lil mama

Their loss is your big gain. 6" or so is getting big to start fading but this gives me more hope for my FH. I'm sooo jealous :lol: really I'm very happy for you. Low grade FH...... ya right!


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## gage

lil mama, my ZZM didnt start fading until 7" you still have hope.

* He had a light patch around his mouth and eyes for a few days, then overnight it turned to the above picture*

this is quite common, mine did the same thing.

* Everyone said it's a real low grade flowerhorn*

technically yes, it does have a slimmer body and no nuchal hump, but i wouldn't care at all if it were my fish, quality of fish is not everything, even though a lot of flowerhorn hobbiests may tell you it is... if you like the fish, who cares what others think, it is a unique fish and you should be happy to own him, and as far as im concerned, he aint bad for a LFS fish, and at least it didn't cost you 300 bux like the true "Quality" or at least what they _call_ quality ones... lets be honest, I've owned many flowerhorns in my past (very small past at 16 years old...lol), and the low grades had more of a personality then the really high grades, well, not more per say, but more unique personalities. all high grade flowerhorn really do act pretty close to the same, where as the mid grades all seem so different from eachother its ridiculous lol.

*Will everything that fades turn red or how does that work?*

he looks like he is capable of getting more red, look for foods with a high level of Astaxanthin in the ingredients, or frozen krill is great to, but if fed more then once or twice a week it is to much protein, so alternate.
*
Will he get his horizontal line of spots back???*

no, however on some faded fish they will come out white.

your flowerhorn is either a Jin Kang or Faded ZZ, same fish really, may be minor differences but im pretty sure the same Jin Kang was just a name given to faded ZZ...

*do all flowerhorns fade? why do they fade?*

no, not all flowerhorn fade, most don't, the only way to get a faded flowerhorn is to have a strong gene in the fish for it (like Midas or Red Devil genes).


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## Bkeen

Here's a updated pic- He's getting red around the gills and his head and his underside is a golden orange color. The cell phone pic doesn't do his coloration justice.


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## Bkeen

Also, Gage- is it common for their eyes to change as well? He had red eyes before he started to fade, and now they're dark, almost black.


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## gage

his eyes will likely go back to red, I've never heard of the fading process causing an eye color change. however if you just turned on the light in the aquarium that could be the cause.


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## Bkeen

Updated pic


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## Chrispy

That is a pretty crazy color change. I didn't know they did that.


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## lil mama

Wow, he is fading fast. Keep posting pic of the progress.


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## Bkeen

lil mama said:


> Wow, he is fading fast. Keep posting pic of the progress.


I know it's crazy! I've gotta get some pics with my camera instead of my phone. His fins are starting to show kind of a red and green spotted pattern. It's especially visible on his dorsal fin.


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## gage

Chrispy said:


> That is a pretty crazy color change. I didn't know they did that.


not all do, it is a trait passed down by the Midas/RD in there blood. Or Parrot blood in Kamfa.

flowerhorn fading process can take anywhere from 1 week to a couple years, you are indeed lucky he is fading completely.


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## Bkeen

gage said:


> flowerhorn fading process can take anywhere from 1 week to a couple years, you are indeed lucky he is fading completely.


Lucky indeed. It seemed to go in stages. One day he was dark, the next his underside faded. He stayed that way for about a week, then the area around his mouth faded. Looked like that a few days then faded some more. Pretty cool process. Right now he has very few scales along the base of his dorsal and caudal fin that are black/dark green. His fins and around his gills and mouth are already coloring up somewhat of a pinkish red. Around his eyes is a golden yellow color. Also his fins have green and red specks now.


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## lil mama

opcorn: Keep posting up picks opcorn:


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## Bkeen

lil mama said:


> opcorn: Keep posting up picks opcorn:


Ask and ye shall recieve:



















He's fully faded now and lookin good. He's getting bloodworm cubes as treats now and his flake/ pellet diet is also getting supplemented with krill as well. He must have some RD genes because that's what he looks like right now! Also his body shape is very similar to the amphilophus species.


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## gage

definitely high RD gene, or else he would not have faded 

nice color to, Krill will get him pretty red so keep up on that, however not to much as thats a lot of protein.


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## Bkeen

gage said:


> definitely high RD gene, or else he would not have faded
> 
> nice color to, Krill will get him pretty red so keep up on that, however not to much as thats a lot of protein.


cool. so any other types of foods I should be on the lookout for? I had another fish I bought at the same time as this one, and gave it to a friend of mine. It's smaller, but it is fading as well!


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## lil mama

OMG! Did he fade fast or what!?! He looks so awesome. I can hardly wait to see what he does next. opcorn:


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## Andre2804

Very interesting colour changes, and it's turned into a stunning fish. Is there any chance that this is actually 100% red devil (Amphilophus Citrinellus). I have seen red devil fry develop into a dark colour as yours was, and then in a matter of 7-10 days become red, orange, white. I think the colour change happens when a fish feels dominant/happy or mature. There is a dvd called Crater cichlids of Nicaragua (or something similar) it shows a few wild red devil colour variants very similar to this fish.

Anyway, I could be wrong. I have bred red devils before, but have never kept flowerhorns.


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## lil mama

Although he does have the face of an RD he doesn't have the lips of one. I have never seen an RD with a flowerline, if you look in his first pics. He is definitly FH.


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## Bkeen

lil mama said:


> OMG! Did he fade fast or what!?! He looks so awesome. I can hardly wait to see what he does next. opcorn:


He's coloring up a little now- red around the gills and fins, his fins are showing a pattern a little more, and he's yellowish orange all over now. The flowerline is white, as I'd hoped. He's lookin good.



Andre2804 said:


> Very interesting colour changes, and it's turned into a stunning fish. Is there any chance that this is actually 100% red devil (Amphilophus Citrinellus). I have seen red devil fry develop into a dark colour as yours was, and then in a matter of 7-10 days become red, orange, white. I think the colour change happens when a fish feels dominant/happy or mature. There is a dvd called Crater cichlids of Nicaragua (or something similar) it shows a few wild red devil colour variants very similar to this fish.
> 
> Anyway, I could be wrong. I have bred red devils before, but have never kept flowerhorns.


This is no fry- lol. He's between six and seven inches. It had been the dark green coloration since i got it in march and was around 1.5". He outgrew the other one i bought at the same time, and started picking on it. I gave the smaller one to my friend (it's fading as well). Plus, as Lil Mama states the flowerline is a dead give away.



lil mama said:


> Although he does have the face of an RD he doesn't have the lips of one. I have never seen an RD with a flowerline, if you look in his first pics. He is definitly FH.


Yeah, his lips aren't very similar to the RD's mouth. He'd look pretty wild like that... I'm hoping to get his hump to grow some.

I'll take some more pics in the next couple of days to show his latest coloration!


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## Bkeen

Updated pic coming shortly


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## Bkeen

His hump is growing! He's also now orange with a little pearling!


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## lil mama

Hey , he looks awesome. He kinda looks like the pic of the Platinum Gold FH they had at the site where I bouhgt my FH. Check it out...








I hope yours turns out like this! Mine too :lol:


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## Bkeen

That is awesome lil mama. Maybe he will. It's crazy how much his kok started growing after i started feeding him bloodworms.


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## Gliven

Up until this new update I really thought it was just a red devil but I was dead wrong he's gonna look really sweet the more he grows. Are you just feeding him only blood worms? If not how are your feedings like?


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## lil mama

Ya my Zz's kok has gotten bigger since I added frozen bloodworm cubes to his night feedings. I bet it is a blast to have your fish change colors like this and this fast too. It's kinda like getting a new fish every week. :lol: He really looks great. Do you have your temp. up to 85 degrees? Gage says it's better for FHs. I used to have mine at 82 but I turned it up to 85. Gage says that will help his kok grow. I love this fish! I'll say it again, keep posting up pics we can't get enough of him. By the way what is his name? He should have a grand name.


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## Bkeen

lil mama said:


> Ya my Zz's kok has gotten bigger since I added frozen bloodworm cubes to his night feedings. I bet it is a blast to have your fish change colors like this and this fast too. It's kinda like getting a new fish every week. :lol: He really looks great. Do you have your temp. up to 85 degrees? Gage says it's better for FHs. I used to have mine at 82 but I turned it up to 85. Gage says that will help his kok grow. I love this fish! I'll say it again, keep posting up pics we can't get enough of him. By the way what is his name? He should have a grand name.


Yeah the bloodworm cubes are definately doing the trick. My temp is ~82 right now. I may bump it up.

And he's yet to have a name. You guys help me think of something suitable!


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## Bkeen

Gliven said:


> Up until this new update I really thought it was just a red devil but I was dead wrong he's gonna look really sweet the more he grows. Are you just feeding him only blood worms? If not how are your feedings like?


I try to keep a varied diet for all of my fish. I feed three small feedings a day. This guy gets krill every other morning, frozen bloodworm cubes every other night, and then flakes/sticks/pellets for any other feedings. I have Hikari Cichlid Excel pellets, and just sticks and flakes from the lfs.


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## Bkeen

also, is there any definitive type of Flowerhorn mine seems to be???


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## lil mama

Bkeen said:


> also, is there any definitive type of Flowerhorn mine seems to be???


Gage? :lol: 
I call mine (this what the place I bought it from called it) a Platinum Gold. Gage says that's just a fancy name for a fader. But I like my fancy name  Not sure if you would call yours a gold based fader or what. I'm still learning about all these different FH types.


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## Andre2804

Look, I have checked this out with several other aquarists and they all agree this is either a juvanile Red Devil or Citrenelum.

I have googled both fish and added the photos for you to check out and tell me the huge difference between them and the fish in question.




























I have kept and bred Citranelum and they are identical, right down to the dark eyes which redden as they get older and the dark splotches along the medial line (what flower line???!!???) which just happens to be a fairly regular aspect of colouration in a lot of different S A large cichlid young fish.

Can't wait for this fish to mature another 6 months so all can see the obvious!


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## lil mama

If you look at the first pics he posted you will see the flowerline. You will also notice that his fish has always had red eyes. Did you show your friends all the pics? Because in order to proprerly judge what kind of fish they need to see all the pics. Also, Midas and RD are in the bloodlines of a fading Flowerhorn. So of course his fish is going to look something like them. I think if you showed all the pics to friend who know a lot about Flowerhorns they will tell you definitly Flowehorn.


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## Gliven

It has a lot of red devil genes yes but it is a flowerhorn red devils don't have spangling or pearls and his didn't have any so I also thought it was a red devil but in his most recent update they have started to show more so I also do believe it is a flowerhorn.


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## Andre2804

After re-checking the pics I still think the eyes are getting redder :fish: time will tell.


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## gage

oh for crying out loud... *THIS FISH IS NOT AN A. CITRINELLUM OR AN A. LABIATUS* how much bloody clearer does it get!

for you inexperienced CA cichlid keepers, I will go through the reasons why this is NOT ANYTHING besides a flowerhorn.

1) The fish has shiny spots on the body and fins... any joe blow with any experience with midas/RD can tell you a pure _citrinellum/labiatus_ will not have this...

2) The red color behind the gill on this fish is caused by the _A. trimaculatum_ blood in the fish, that purple color when faded turns to a nice red color.

3) The fish has a flowerline for crying out loud, LOOK at the middle of the fish... do you see the lighter colored spots just below the lateral line??? ya... thats the black flowerline the flowerhorn used to have before it faded, the flowerline is a gene passed down mostly by _A. trimaculatum_, but any fish with a black line in the middle will pass it down... gee... really the only fish that doesn't have that is a faded A. citrinellum and an A. labiatus

and at that, a midas/RD at this size will not have such a squared off bodyshape, it will show a gradual decrease in height (in the body) going towards the tail to show almost a sideways triangle effect.

This is the reason flowerhorn have a bad name, in cases when people are telling others it is a pure bred, so then find a pure bred mate for it and sell the babies as pure breds etc. *If you don't know your stuff, don't argue, plain and simple...*

I'm done... if this doesn't beat it into there heads nothing will...

I apologize for what has happened in this thread Bkeen.

*and BTW, your fish is a Faded Zhen Zhu (or Faded ZZ for short)*


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## gage

*Andre2804*
It takes **** all to breed a fish... get a pair and they do the rest, doesn't mean you know **** about the fish, it means you get cocky and act like you know the fish...

and BTW, a faded midas will not still show the flowerline... especially at the size of this fish... I think you need to do some research before telling the senior members what is right and wrong...

Bkeen, please don't listen to this guy, It is quite apparent he know nothing about this fish, and quite apparent that he is in no place to argue he does.


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## Lancerlot

gage said:


> *Andre2804*
> It takes #%$& all to breed a fish... get a pair and they do the rest, doesn't mean you know #%$& about the fish, it means you get cocky and act like you know the fish...
> 
> and BTW, a faded midas will not still show the flowerline... especially at the size of this fish... I think you need to do some research before telling the senior members what is right and wrong...
> 
> Bkeen, please don't listen to this guy, It is quite apparent he know nothing about this fish, and quite apparent that he is in no place to argue he does.


Hes just trying to be helpful man. some people get little off track and don't understand somethings. this is a fish community were all trying to help each other. He was trying to help him even if hes wrong. If we all don't try we might as well not be in a community of fish lovers.


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## Gliven

Lancerlot said:


> gage said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Andre2804*
> It takes #%$& all to breed a fish... get a pair and they do the rest, doesn't mean you know #%$& about the fish, it means you get cocky and act like you know the fish...
> 
> and BTW, a faded midas will not still show the flowerline... especially at the size of this fish... I think you need to do some research before telling the senior members what is right and wrong...
> 
> Bkeen, please don't listen to this guy, It is quite apparent he know nothing about this fish, and quite apparent that he is in no place to argue he does.
> 
> 
> 
> Hes just trying to be helpful man. some people get little off track and don't understand somethings. this is a fish community were all trying to help each other. He was trying to help him even if hes wrong. If we all don't try we might as well not be in a community of fish lovers.
Click to expand...

Yes I do agree with that train of thought but he continued to argue even after me and lilmama explained to him why it was a flowerhorn granted gage explained it much better but it clearly is a flowerhorn.


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## gage

I'm aware I get a little overboard with this kind of situation, but for him to argue and pretty well say he know more then the rest of us is kind of annoying.

and at that, it is people that persist on a hybrid being a pure bred that give a bad name to flowerhorns.


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## lil mama

I think we all can agree that gage knows what he is talking about, especially when it comes to Flowerhorns. So, if he says it's a FH to say anything less is an insult to his intelligence. We are lucky to have someone like him with his vast knowledge on this subject help us with these things. But the proof is in the pudding and I wish you lived closer to me Andre cause I would bet you a months worth of water changes it's a FH. 8) :lol:


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## gage

I think this Andre character is also missing the fact the fish has shiny spots on the body to... cause you know... that is a common RD/Midas trait... LOL


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## Leucistic Guy

What an awesome transformation.
I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it in this thread.
It reminds me of the bedtime story "The ugly duckling".
While your fish was never ugly I find it funny that they labeled it a JD, & people say its a "low grade FH.
It turns out it's a real beauty/handsome.

Keep us updated.


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## gage

the only reason it would be classified lower grade is because of the absence of a big nuchal hump, thats really all.


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## Bkeen

Leucistic Guy said:


> What an awesome transformation.
> I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it in this thread.
> It reminds me of the bedtime story "The ugly duckling".
> While your fish was never ugly I find it funny that they labeled it a JD, & people say its a "low grade FH.
> It turns out it's a real beauty/handsome.
> 
> Keep us updated.


No he most certainly went through an ugly phase...lol

Thanks for all of the input folks! I'll take some more pics toward the end of the week


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## Bkeen

Oh yeah Lil mama- we've still got to work on him a name!


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## lil mama

I'm still working on that. I just keep googling things until I find something I like. Like my FH's name Antares. That is the 16th brightest star in our night sky. It is 700 times bigger than our sun. It is also the brightest star in the zodiac sign scorpio (my sign  ). When I looked at him he looked like a bright shining star, so I started there. Do you have any ideas as where to start looking for a name for your fish?


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## Lancerlot

wtb moar pictures!! GOGOGOGOG


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## lil mama

Bkeen said:


> Oh yeah Lil mama- we've still got to work on him a name!


Ok, not sure if you will like this name. I just thought the way he has changed so much should figure into his name. So how about Morpheus? He was the greek god of dreams and he could change into different men. If you don't like it I can keep working on it.


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## gage

does he always show up to bite you when you clean the tank? if he does, I'd call him Herpes... always showing up when you don't want him to...


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## Leucistic Guy

gage said:


> does he always show up to bite you when you clean the tank? if he does, I'd call him Herpes... always showing up when you don't want him to...


  :lol: LOL!!! :lol:


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## Bkeen

lil mama said:


> Bkeen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah Lil mama- we've still got to work on him a name!
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, not sure if you will like this name. I just thought the way he has changed so much should figure into his name. So how about Morpheus? He was the greek god of dreams and he could change into different men. If you don't like it I can keep working on it.
Click to expand...

I like the meaning but everyone would think of Lawrence Fishburn's character from the matrix. I'm going to hafta say no to gage's suggestion... lol



Lancerlot said:


> wtb moar pictures!! GOGOGOGOG


Maybe thursday or friday...


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## lil mama

I know what you mean about the matrix. The only other name that I found in Greek mythology that could change their appearance was Zeus. Not sure if I like that one either. I'll keep working on it.


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## Andre2804

Gage,

Chill out and get a life you loser! I had imagined this forum was for people INTERESTED in cichlids to swap ideas, information, and help. You however seem content only to do people down for expressing their ideas.

Good luck breeding a flowerhorn with a parrot fish, that will be a true accomplishment, we definately need more inbred retard fish. Why not try mating a flowerhorn with a duck-billed platipus?










Bye Bye.


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## Gliven

Big difference between put downs and being passionate about something. It's people like you that give out wrong info to others that hurt the hobby how can you (judging by your rather immature reply) be a purist and insist even after 2 people gave you several reasons as to why it was a flowerhorn still come back with a snappy reply and insist it's not. And how about not making fun of people for keeping the fish they enjoy? Btw how did you google a picture of a duck-billed platypus and not spell it right?


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## Leucistic Guy

Gliven said:


> Btw how did you google a picture of a duck-billed platypus and not spell it right?


 :lol: LOL!!! :lol:

Andre you were wrong & wouldn't admit to it, the way you get defensive is really childish.
Around here gage is known as the flowerhorn expert by many.
IMO gage's response to your post's were inline to the info you were giving.
To spread info that my mislead others is wrong. & when you find out your info is wrong you get all defensive. It's alright to admit defeat sometimes.
We're here to share info & learn from others who have been in this hobby for years.

Re: Midas/RD's from what I've gathered most are hybrids & to get a pure breed/strain is really hard to find.
I have a fish I thought was a Midas/Rd, now I've found out there's a possibility it may be a Flowerhorn. Either way I don't care. I thought I had this fish ID'd.
This just goes to show that you don't always know what you get.

Have a look for yourself & add your opinion .
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=197350.


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## lil mama

Gliven said:


> Btw how did you google a picture of a duck-billed platypus and not spell it right?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: OMG! :lol: I'm laughing so hard it hurts :lol: :lol: That is the funniest thing I've heard in days! :lol: I'm still laughing! :lol:


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## SiNFuLWaYs

what pet store is it a petco or petsmart chain im going ot go looking haha


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## underOATH87

can you guys stop arguing, just let it go before the topic gets locked due to uneccesary fighting. I'd like to see more pics of that nice FH.


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## Bkeen

SiNFuLWaYs said:


> what pet store is it a petco or petsmart chain im going ot go looking haha


Petsmart.



underOATH87 said:


> can you guys stop arguing, just let it go before the topic gets locked due to uneccesary fighting. I'd like to see more pics of that nice FH.


I concur. Maybe everyone is happy now. I'm gonna take some more pics tonight.


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## mok3t

underOATH87 said:


> can you guys stop arguing, just let it go before the topic gets locked due to uneccesary fighting. I'd like to see more pics of that nice FH.


+1


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## Gliven

I'm pretty sure we are done we weren't really arguing just trying to get a point across. :dancing:


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## underOATH87

I know, it's just when 2 strongly opionated people get going it's like when an unmoveable object gets hit by an unstopable force. LOL.

Can't wait for those pics!


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## gage

Andre2804 said:


> Gage,
> 
> Chill out and get a life you loser! I had imagined this forum was for people INTERESTED in cichlids to swap ideas, information, and help. You however seem content only to do people down for expressing their ideas.
> 
> Good luck breeding a flowerhorn with a parrot fish, that will be a true accomplishment, we definately need more inbred retard fish. Why not try mating a flowerhorn with a duck-billed platipus?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bye Bye.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, arent you a funny one!!! thing is, don't give phony advise when you are not 100% sure you are right... which you are not!

and LMFAO at your comment about breeding with a parrot... it is a real cross which will give you Kamfa flowerhorns, Killin Parrots, SB flowerhorns, or Bonsai's...

again, my apologizes for arguing with this guy, but people that give BS advise bother me something terrible, not just in fish, but anything... and I have a monstrosity mouth when it comes down to wrong advise with no evidence to back it up...

again, Bkeen, I strongly apologize for the BS I have (half...) caused in your thread, I will stop replying as of now... as I have made my points.

and thank you, Gliven... not arguing, but trying to enforce the* truth*. I've had enough of the "If it is orange, it is a RD/Midas" theory... seems all faded flowerhorns are said to be midas/RD without looking at any other feature besides color...


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## Bkeen

> again, Bkeen, I strongly apologize for the BS I have (half...) caused in your thread, I will stop replying as of now... as I have made my points.


Your expertise is more than welcome in my thread.


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## lil mama

Where are those pics?  opcorn:


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## Bkeen

I don't know if he's changed that much since the last pics I posted. Also, he's got the gut thing going on because he ate his bloodworms and the Jack's half too... 

*Comment please!*


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## Leucistic Guy

My guy always has the "gut" thing going on.
:lol: :lol:


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## lil mama

He looks awesome. :thumb: You can see he is getting bigger.....and I don't mean his belly. opcorn:


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## gage

He's looking good! you can see where the pearling was before he faded now (a little more then before anyways).

keep up the updates


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## Chromedome52

I would strongly suspect that is not a HE but a SHE. Fins are not extended as much as I would expect on a male of that size, and while lack of a heavy kok is not definitively female, it certainly leaves that as a possibility. Stomach profile from the photos where the fish hasn't just been fed ( :lol: :thumb: excellent care!) is slightly convex, while a male at that size tends to be flat or slightly concave on most _Amphilophus _types. Again, the flowerhorn nature of the individual makes all this more variable than usual, but I'd bet good money that it's a girl.

Of course, I'm no Flowerhorn fancier - I breed fish, so decorative fish do not interest me. But I do appreciate the color and patterns of them. I think if you look at the fish as a possible female, the quality might be considered even better than previously suggested here.


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## gage

Fins and nuchal hump do not matter, there are fish bred in flowerhorns that barely achieve any extensions at all, look at the vent, the is a male's papilla if I've ever seen one... 

A lot of flowerhorns bred in Thailand, Malaysia etc are bred not to have extensions because in flowerhorns it is more desirable to have a wrap tail (when dorsal, caudal, and anal fin line up together) and the extensions ruin the look of it. but sometimes in the midst of breeding the fish ends up with neither extensions or wrap tail and sometimes they end up with both, and the imperfect ones are sent down to the US and Canada for cheap purchase, which is why it is rare to find a good quality flowerhorn in Canada, because the states is starting to also import the nice ones and Canada is too cheap :lol:


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## Chromedome52

Actually, when I looked at that genital papilla, I felt it was too indistinct to use for sexing the fish. Females can show a tip when heavily fed (lesson learned the hard way #1,374), and that fish was definitely well fed! Male papillae also tend to be longer and at more of a right angle to the body of the fish. I zoomed in the second photo in the last group (best visibility), it looked short and more like it was pointing backward - not a clear indicator.

I'm particularly curious how it behaves with tankmates, as behavior can be as much a way of sexing most of these fish as visual clues.

Most of my guess is based on the obviously strong _Amphilophus _genetic influence, but as I said, I am not a FH expert. I think I'll agree to disagree. :wink:


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## Bkeen

Chromedome52 said:


> Actually, when I looked at that genital papilla, I felt it was too indistinct to use for sexing the fish. Females can show a tip when heavily fed (lesson learned the hard way #1,374), and that fish was definitely well fed! Male papillae also tend to be longer and at more of a right angle to the body of the fish. I zoomed in the second photo in the last group (best visibility), it looked short and more like it was pointing backward - not a clear indicator.
> 
> *I'm particularly curious how it behaves with tankmates, as behavior can be as much a way of sexing most of these fish as visual clues.*
> 
> Most of my guess is based on the obviously strong _Amphilophus _genetic influence, but as I said, I am not a FH expert. I think I'll agree to disagree. :wink:


As for the behavior, this guy (or gal) is a loner. It keeps to itself, and has its territory clearly defined to the other fish. It's the boss of the left half of the tank and the big jack is the boss of the right half, with the two smaller fish staying mostly in the middle.


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## Bkeen

gage said:


> He's looking good! you can see where the pearling was before he faded now (a little more then before anyways).
> 
> keep up the updates


Cool. I'm kinda spoiled now, since he's been changing so fast here lately and now it's kind of slowed somewhat. I'll try to get the updates going on a weekly basis. The area around gills is probably the most noticeable change to him i can see.

Is it feasible that it'll end up looking like the picture lil mama posted a page or so back???



lil mama said:


> He looks awesome. :thumb: You can see he is getting bigger.....and I don't mean his belly. opcorn:


He is a fast growing fish. I want him to change into that pic you posted earlier in the thread!


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## lil mama

Ya, I hope he turns out like that pic too. That is one sweet fish. So is yours :thumb:


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## Bkeen

Saw this guy on aqua bid. take away the hump and some of the red and he looks awful familiar...  maybe this is how he'll turn out.










and another one from aquabid for $120 (Maybe my $ was well spent):
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwflowerhorn&1249169406


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## gage

nice looking flowerhorn.

as far as like the pic lil mama posted, more then unlikely will it develop a nuchal hump like that this late in life. as ZZ, JK etc should show signs relatively early. as he grows his head will likely appear to square off with little to no protruding nuchal hump.

behavior in flowerhorns has not much to do with sex... females are just as psychotically aggressive as male in most cases.

lets look at it this way... it is 6"... and never laid eggs... it is a male 

a female flowerhorn will show a thick tube... always, not long, but a thicker area, and point straight down, in all species. Males are thin and point backwards, in all species.


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## Bkeen

gage said:


> nice looking flowerhorn.
> 
> as far as like the pic lil mama posted, more then unlikely will it develop a nuchal hump like that this late in life. as ZZ, JK etc should show signs relatively early. as he grows his head will likely appear to square off with little to no protruding nuchal hump.
> 
> behavior in flowerhorns has not much to do with sex... females are just as psychotically aggressive as male in most cases.
> 
> lets look at it this way... it is 6"... and never laid eggs... it is a male
> 
> a female flowerhorn will show a thick tube... always, not long, but a thicker area, and point straight down, in all species. Males are thin and point backwards, in all species.


So basically I have a sausage fest in my tank? :lol: Both of the jacks are male, the flowerhorn is male and the con is female...


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## lil mama

That's a nice looking fish Bkeen. I really like that SRT LG is thinking about getting. $225 including shipping isn't bad for a fish with that much color. Makes me want to sell one of my Hummels for the money to buy one of thos SRTs. 8)


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## gage

Lets just say... I feel bad for your convict... :lol:


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## Leucistic Guy

"Hummel"? 
Are you into hardwood flooring? That's my area of expertise. 
I use hummels for work to sand hardwood floors.
:lol:


lil mama said:


> That's a nice looking fish Bkeen. I really like that SRT LG is thinking about getting. $225 including shipping isn't bad for a fish with that much color. Makes me want to sell one of my Hummels for the money to buy one of thos SRTs. 8)


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## Bkeen

lil mama said:


> That's a nice looking fish Bkeen. I really like that SRT LG is thinking about getting. $225 including shipping isn't bad for a fish with that much color. Makes me want to sell one of my Hummels for the money to buy one of thos SRTs. 8)


Yeah maybe I can swing 225 with the g/f since it's a fish she said we should get!


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## Leucistic Guy

If you guys want to order I'll let my guy know ahead of time.


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## lil mama

How does that work LG with you in Canada and us in the States? How would your guy handle the payment/shipping? I have already spoke with an antique dealer about selling a Hummel. I was thinking about getting a small SRT for $35 but I want a  SRT so I'm willing to pay for the right one.


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## Bkeen

He's got a small split in his fin.  But he's starting to color up red around the gills and some in front of his tail area. His main diet has been changed to cichlid gold large pellets (which has Asthanaxin) and supplementing with the bloodworms at nighttime feedings. So what do you guys think???


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## lil mama

GORGEOUS!  Absolutley gorgeous! I see a kok starting too. Sweet! You can really see his faded flower line. Really nice color! :drooling:


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## gage

I think the blood worms are doing what they were intended to buy feeding him them at night, congrats on making his little kok pop, and I hope once he hits 12" he has more then a squared off head.

he will never have a monster kok, but I have a striking feeling that he has a little more potential then we all initially thought. congrats


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## jamesman_1994

i have never really liked flower horns but i gotta say that that is the best looking one i have ever seen if they all looked like that they would b one of my fav cichlids
oh and this thread is so interesting i can't gfet enough of it


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## Bkeen

lil mama said:


> GORGEOUS!  Absolutley gorgeous! I see a kok starting too. Sweet! You can really see his faded flower line. Really nice color! :drooling:


Thanks!



gage said:


> I think the blood worms are doing what they were intended to buy feeding him them at night, congrats on making his little kok pop, and I hope once he hits 12" he has more then a squared off head.
> 
> he will never have a monster kok, but I have a striking feeling that he has a little more potential then we all initially thought. congrats


Yeah the bloodworms are doing the trick. It's bigger than I ever thought it would be. It seems he's getting a darker orange every day, maybe he'll get near a red hue. Thanks for all of the advice you've given.



jamesman_1994 said:


> i have never really liked flower horns but i gotta say that that is the best looking one i have ever seen if they all looked like that they would b one of my fav cichlids
> oh and this thread is so interesting i can't gfet enough of it


Thanks!
Lots of people don't like Flowerhorns, and I was one before I got this guy. His dramatic change in coloration, rapid growth rate, and great personality make him my favorite fish.


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## Bkeen

Well, the fh's hump pretty much doubled in size over the last couple of days. However he's chasing anything that moves and keeps trying to fight my JD. I'll try to take pics tonight or tomorrow.


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## lil mama

That's what happened with Fedor. His hump pretty much doubled in size over night ....twice. I can't wait to see pics. opcorn:


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## Bkeen

lil mama said:


> That's what happened with Fedor. His hump pretty much doubled in size over night ....twice. I can't wait to see pics. opcorn:


It looks good but he's being a pain... My jack is lookin stressed.


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## M0oN

Welcome to flowerhorns - the bi polar mutts of our aquaria. They're very unpredictable fish, and thanks to all of the beefy strains used to create them, they have the potential to back up any kind of aggression they choose to display.


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## Bkeen

M0oN said:


> Welcome to flowerhorns - the bi polar mutts of our aquaria. They're very unpredictable fish, and thanks to all of the beefy strains used to create them, they have the potential to back up any kind of aggression they choose to display.


I kind of knew it was coming, everyone told me everything tends to be fine one day and then they flip out for no reason. His kok grew significantly in a day or so, and he was hyper. I'm not positive what course of action I'll have to take, but obviously the situation can't stay how it is now. Either he will calm down, or will have to be rehoused.


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## lil mama

Ahhhh....pics please! :lol: opcorn:


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## Bkeen




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## gage

he is definitely looking good now, just keep pumping that head full of protein.

also play with him using a mirror, the mix of protein and testosterone will likely make his nuchal hump pop more.


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## Bkeen

Hmm... a mirror. I'll have to try that.


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## lil mama

WOW  Look at that kok!! Nice work Brandon :thumb: I just love that fish. I'm still looking for a name for him. I was looking up the word gold in different languages, I thought that would fit him. You know you kinda struck gold with him as well as some of his coloring. I looked up the Aztec word for gold it was some long crazy word that meant "excrement of the gods". :roll: Needless to say I'm still looking :lol: Anyway he really looks awesome :dancing:


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## Bkeen

lil mama said:


> WOW  Look at that kok!! Nice work Brandon :thumb: I just love that fish. I'm still looking for a name for him. I was looking up the word gold in different languages, I thought that would fit him. You know you kinda struck gold with him as well as some of his coloring. I looked up the Aztec word for gold it was some long crazy word that meant "excrement of the gods". :roll: Needless to say I'm still looking :lol: Anyway he really looks awesome :dancing:


Thanks lil mama! The kok is starting to get rather crazy. He's still yet to get a name... We'll steer clear of calling him the excrement of the gods.  I really did get lucky getting such an awesome fish.


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## Leucistic Guy

Sorry for bumping an old thread but I was wondering if you have any pix for an update?
My guy faded a few time too & is starting to look similar to yours.
I'm still working on the hump tho.


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## Bkeen

Leucistic Guy said:


> Sorry for bumping an old thread but I was wondering if you have any pix for an update?
> My guy faded a few time too & is starting to look similar to yours.
> I'm still working on the hump tho.


No, sorry. He got horrendously aggressive and I let a friend with a much larger setup to accomodate him. Right before I got rid of him his flowerline was much lighter than the rest of his body and looked amazing...


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## Leucistic Guy

That's sux.
Too bad you had to get rid of him, he was a beauty!!!

I noticed my guy was nuts when he was small.
I put him in with a GT that was 5X his size & it seemed to settle him down.
Now he's on his own(& bigger than the GT) & just a crazy(if not more) then he was before.


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## Bkeen

Leucistic Guy said:


> That's sux.
> Too bad you had to get rid of him, he was a beauty!!!
> 
> I noticed my guy was nuts when he was small.
> I put him in with a GT that was 5X his size & it seemed to settle him down.
> Now he's on his own(& bigger than the GT) & just a crazy(if not more) then he was before.


I loved him, but I didn't have the space to put him in a wet pet setup. I miss him sooooo much! Good luck with yours!


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## Leucistic Guy

Thanks!!!
I'll snap a few pix once I get him in his 90G & he settles in.
He basically look like yours with a white mohawk.
3/4 of his dorsal is white & the last 1/4 is red/orange, his eyes are half red, half blue/green.
He also has sort of a red/orange batman mask too.

I'm still working on pumping up his kok, I'm starting him on grand sumo red & green tomorrow.
I hope he gets a kok like your guy soon.

I have a crappy camera so pix don't really do him justice.


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## Bkeen

Leucistic Guy said:


> Thanks!!!
> I'll snap a few pix once I get him in his 90G & he settles in.
> He basically look like yours with a white mohawk.
> 3/4 of his dorsal is white & the last 1/4 is red/orange, his eyes are half red, half blue/green.
> He also has sort of a red/orange batman mask too.
> 
> I'm still working on pumping up his kok, I'm starting him on grand sumo red & green tomorrow.
> I hope he gets a kok like your guy soon.
> 
> I have a crappy camera so pix don't really do him justice.


Krill/bloodworms for protein, turn the water temp up to ~78-82 range, and do the mirror trick gage talked about in this thread. Good luck with him! :thumb:


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## Leucistic Guy

I use the mirror trick once in a while too.
I have a QT/Growout tank right next to him so he sees whatever fish I have healing or growing up @ the time.

Thanks
Bkeen.


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## fishluvr12

This thread is a classic example of how the fh craze and hybrids can be bad for the hobby.You were so excited over this so called awesome fh and the whole time You were raising an inbreed midas/rd. That being said I'm not questioning anyone intelligence here or start an argument. Rest assured I do know what I'm talking about


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## Leucistic Guy

fishluvr12 said:


> This thread is a classic example of how the fh craze and hybrids can be bad for the hobby.You were so excited over this so called awesome fh and the whole time You were raising an inbreed midas/rd. That being said I'm not questioning anyone intelligence here or start an argument. Rest assured I do know what I'm talking about


Hey I got my fish & I thought it was a midas or a RD.
Then it turns out to be both which most are nowadays.
It`s classified as a FH because it crossed.
I think there's is some sort of FH in him because he's molted/faded a few times.

I didn't get the fish because I wanted a FH.
It happened by mistake because I was asked by a friend to rescue/rehome a fish that was a a store that was going out of business.
If you want know how much I paid, I paid $1.00 just because they needed to have a record of sale.

I'll post pix & you can tell me if my fish is worth the $1.00 I paid for it.

These pix are right after a WC & his color changed a bit(lighter).
His red/orange is more intense (IMO) & whatever I said a few posts up.



















This is about 3-4 months ago:










Here originally looked like this:










My camera sux as you can see, point & shoot no DSLR here.

IMO he's worth more than $1.00 I've seen ppl selling one's like him for around 30-40x what I paid.


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## fishluvr12

Nice loking rd/midas! It's definetly worth more than a $1. It is a hybrid though and not a fh. Molting/fading is a common trait of these fish and not of a fh. The FH gets the trait from the midas being part of the mix that it is made from. Hope this helps.


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## Leucistic Guy

I know.
FH is such a broad term now & many just use FH like they would hybrid.
It's hard to find any original FH or their offspring.
That's why there's all these silly names ppl like to classify their FH with.


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## joyyie

hey bkeen..i got the same fish as yours..i bought four FH and one ended up looking exactly as yours! It was really pretty and i love it so much..your pics reminded me of him  he died after getting bladder problems. it sucks that you have to let go of your FH but i just want to let you know that your fish is so pretty


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## Bkeen

joyyie said:


> hey bkeen..i got the same fish as yours..i bought four FH and one ended up looking exactly as yours! It was really pretty and i love it so much..your pics reminded me of him  he died after getting bladder problems. it sucks that you have to let go of your FH but i just want to let you know that your fish is so pretty


Thanks! :thumb:


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