# Toledo water problem?



## toledo guy (Jun 23, 2010)

Hello everyone...I live in Toledo Ohio...the area that had the water issues (which was all over the news) These past few weeks since the all clear was given to drink the water, my fish suffer. After a water change of 50% my fish go to the bottom laying on their sides as if dying. Water tests done...ph=8.0...nitrate=40...ammonia=0. Nitrate test of tap water=nearly 0. Seems to be affecting the larger fish more. Everything was fine before water change. Fish seemed active and happy (fighting). Any ideas out there? Thanks in advance ... Larry Oh and another thing I use Prime with water changes.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Hi Larry and yes I did see the problems with the water in your area due to that cyanoalgae issues in Lake Erie. Sorry it is still causing issues with your aquarium.

Have you contacted your local water authority directly to speak with them and find out what treatment procedures they used?


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## toledo guy (Jun 23, 2010)

Thanks Dee...I will try contacting them today. They've been telling us they had to increase the chlorine to make water drinkable again. I've even tried double the Prime with water changes.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

I can't offer any practical ways for you to treat your water at home but I'm curious if you can use an activated carbon filter for your aquarium water. Check out THIS study done on cyano-algae treatment options at water treatment facilities. I didn't do a thorough read of the article but it appears that there are a lot of various 'strains' of cyano-algae and different ones respond to different treatments. I think the one up around Toledo was microcystins.


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## toledo guy (Jun 23, 2010)

I talked to the Water Dept. and the Toledo Zoo today. The Water Dept. said they are putting Alum in the water to combat heavy metals. Okaaay. The Toledo Zoo is having the same problems as mine. But they have been having them for more than six months. After a water change the larger fish go to the bottom laying on their sides as if dying! They are looking into phosphate problems. Their suggestion was to do a 25% water change twice a week to lessen stress.


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## Deeda (Oct 12, 2012)

Good call on contacting the zoo, I never would have thought of that. Another one to contact would be any local fish stores in your area to see how they might be handling the water problem.

Alum is often used in water treatment plants to combat problems so I don't know that it is part of the problems.


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## toledo guy (Jun 23, 2010)

Just left the local pet store with some Hornwort plants. Will let them float and will reduce feeding to address high Nitrates. Need to test for high Phosphates too...(oh no another test kit) ! The pet store had a sweet used 300 gal. setup (acrylic) ! Tank stand and canopy=around 2 grand.


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Do you have a water softener installed at your home? How about access to a large barrel to age some water in? I think that your utility is going to be pretty jumpy with treating your water for awhile, and you might want a longer term strategy to prevent their actions from surprising your fish.

If they are adding alum, that should help out with the phosphorus problem. However, phosphorus isn't directly harmful to your fish; lack of oxygen due to algae/bacterial blooms due to phosphorus is. So, as long as you aren't getting huge mats of uncontrollable algae in your tank and your surface agitation is good- I don't think phosphorus is your primary problem

Alum flocculates phosphorus, meaning it grabs it and turns into a solid that sinks in the water. Pretty common, and should be settled out before your water comes out of your faucet. But if not, raising the pH (with baking soda) and aging your water in a barrel can help finish that process.

My guess is that equilibrium gas exchange is part of the issue here. The utility is likely taking advantage of some interesting redox chemistry that will severely muck up the match between your tank and tap waters. Aging your water (with an air pump/sponge filter), lots of Prime (use 3-5 times the base dosage if you are aging the water for 12-24 hours) will be helpful.

I know this is a bit of a PITA- but your fish will also be in better condition to weather these changes if you can keep your nitrates below 20 ppm. That means more water changes, more aging, more Prime, etc. Nitrate is just the easiest thing to test for that tells us if it's time to do another water change; it's a proxy measurement for a lot of other compounds that build up in your water.


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## toledo guy (Jun 23, 2010)

Thanks Triscuit...Lots of useful information here. No I do not have a water softener system (rely on city water). I can start aging some water. No huge amounts of algae growth either. Yesterday I added some Hornwort plants (just letting them float for now). And am reducing the feeding as to reduce Nitrate. Fish seem happier with the plants. My local zoo is having similar problems with water changes!


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## sdboers (Aug 19, 2014)

I'm interested in any additional information that comes up on this. My fish exhibited the same symptoms after a water change - I even lost some fish as a result. The catch is - I'm on well water. That being said - I have a water treatment system in the basement that treats the water with both chlorine and alum. There is a large carbon filter that the water runs through for the whole house afterwards and I also treated the water with conditioner.

Is alum itself an issue for the fish if there is some left in the water? I don't know the ppm on it - but we aren't talking large quantities of alum.

Sean.


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## toledo guy (Jun 23, 2010)

Sorry for the delay Sean. I really wanted the cause, but for now can only provide a remedy which worked for me. The Toledo Zoo has had similar issues for many months. After a water change larger fish affected first, going to bottom appearing to be dying. They suggested I try smaller water changes. It has so far worked. They also said to increase Prime for Chlorine removal. I am guilty of messing with my canisters too much. So I am now adding beneficial bacteria and trying to leave them alone. I have also lowered my water temp. to 78-80 range. I have done three water changes since my last post and no problems. I also added some plants(Wisteria) and let them just float around. Fish seem to like the new hiding places. Though not sure if I will try a true planted African tank as they do nibble a lot leaving a mess. YouTube has some nice video on planted African Cichlid tanks. Hope this helps some Sean...Larry


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Alum shouldn't get past your carbon filter, and wouldn't affect your fish that way, but I would guess from the symptoms and recovery that you're talking about an equilibrium problem. I had very similar issues in winter- my water would degass tiny bubbles (assumed CO2) and the fish would breath hard and lay on the bottom. I found that smaller water changes, and keeping a filter/powerhead running while adding fresh water helped. Once I started to keep the new water hose above the surface of the tank water (thus splashing a lot more) I didn't have any further fish moping around.


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## josenestor (Sep 1, 2013)

I have an idea that may explain why not only are the fish being affected now, but why the zoo and others may have been having problems for a few months previous, and why it seems to affect the larger fish first. I believe the cause may be depleted oxygen levels in the water coming from Lake Erie. The same issues that caused the algae bloom and the algae bloom itself may be depleting dissolved oxygen from the water. A test for dissolved oxygen would confirm or shut down my theory. But my suggestion is to heavily aerate the change water or the tank as you change the water. Once the dissolved oxygen level in the water gets to be in equilibrium with the air things go back to normal (I am guessing.)

Anyhow, just an idea.

Jose


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## toledo guy (Jun 23, 2010)

Thanks for that info Jose. I am still having some issues with water changes. I am down to 20 gal. changes three time a week. I also had a nitrate issue but that is now under control. I am leaving my 2-406"s running during changes now.


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## josenestor (Sep 1, 2013)

I hope my suggestion helps. But I am very curious about the result. Hope things are getting better.
Jose


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## toledo guy (Jun 23, 2010)

Sorry for the late update. I think for now problems solved. I addressed the high Nitrate...now zero. I have been increasing the volume of my water changes gradually. Thanks to Jose...I now let the filters run during water changes. Today I tried a nearly 50% change and had no issues. Oh and as for the plants I added...they shredded them to tiny pieces. Which of coarse clogged the filter intakes. Plants are gone...plant remnants removed from inside filters. So all is well. Even found a baby Lab today. Very shy...only 1/4 in. long.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

You could always invest in an RO unit. Will filter out 99% of the impurities in water. Then you just need to add back a mineral reconstituter (like Kent RO Right) to get the hardness back up to the desired level.

That will give you a long term solution and pure water every time.

Andy


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## triscuit (May 6, 2005)

Narwhal72 said:


> You could always invest in an RO unit....
> That will give you a long term solution and pure water every time.


... If properly maintained.  RO systems have to be monitored too.

I'm glad you've got things working for you- happy fishkeeping!


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## josenestor (Sep 1, 2013)

I am glad my suggestion about aeration helped you. I live in Ohio as well and have Lake Erie water although not in NW Ohio. My water utility does not add phosphate to their treated water, so that is not an issue. IMO the water here is actually perfect for Africans. The actual pH in Lake Erie is about 8.2. Just like Lake Malawi. Water utilities adjust the pH in some cases depending on their treatment. I use water straight from the faucet, after de-chlor, and I have no issues at all. Even though my faucet water is about 7.4 pH, my pH is maintained around 8.0 with high hardness by crushed gravel and coral rubble in my tank. I add no additives or minerals, just weekly 50% water changes. I do have an auto-top off system (DIY) that makes up evaporated water from my sump with RO water. I find that using a sump with an auto-top off is the best way to maintain steady water quality other than water changes. NO3 in my tank varies between 10 - 20 ppm.

The way I figure, evaporation concentrates NO3 and other contaminants. This happens to be a big problem in the norther winters with dry indoor air. The top offs really help with that.


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