# Stocking Ideas......



## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

Did some homework and here is what I am thinking for my 30 gallon long tank. 36X16X12.

Pseudotropheus demasoni - 5
Labidochromis caeruleus - 3

From what I have read.... this should work out great beings that the tank is a 30 gallon long. :thumb:

What do you guys think?


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## xclub (Apr 15, 2008)

Good choice,

I am spawning Ps. demasoni and in order to "control aggression" I have Lab.Caerleus with them. They are suitable for each other but if you ask me, I would have at least 3-4 more Ps.demasoni and at least 2-3 more Lab.Caerleus in that tank.

Demasoni is a fish that over night without any reason can go "aggressive crazy" and If you have more males (like 2 on 3 females) you can have a massacre in your Aq.

Add as I mentioned and you will have a beauty and the beast in same Aq. no matter do you want to spawn them or not.

I have this combo in a tank even smaller than yours, like 110cm x 30cm x 25cm (that is approx 21 gal) the length of Aq is good and since Ps. demaoni is a small Mbuna, I have no problems at all


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

thanks for the info!

Add more fish?! :drooling: :dancing:

Anyone else think this is a good idea? 
What about a clean up crew?


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

At least a dozen Demasoni or they will kill each other off. I wouldn't add any more labs though. I might not add any labs at all. The fishkeeper is the cleanup crew, LOL. Don't overfeed and you won't need one. :thumb:


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

updated list



Whitespy9 said:


> Did some homework and here is what I am thinking for my 30 gallon long tank. 36X16X12.
> 
> Pseudotropheus demasoni - 10
> Labidochromis caeruleus - 3
> ...


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## TheeMon (May 11, 2004)

no, updated list should be 12-15 demasoni 5 maybe 6 labs

edit id do 15 and 4 if it was me


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## xclub (Apr 15, 2008)

10 is ok but if you want you can add two more..and yes, if you want to add more,add them now don't do it latter!


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

thanks so much for the replies!
I'm so pumped to head out to the fish store! :dancing:

If anyone thinks this setup won't work please let me know! 
Here is a picture of the tank they will be going into.

30 gallon long tank. 36X16X12.

Pseudotropheus demasoni - 12-15
Labidochromis caeruleus - 5


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## xclub (Apr 15, 2008)

My friend, tank is looking ok, BUT you MUST ADD some more rocks into this tank and you MUST ADD sand!!

Even normal beach sand, boiled to destroy all bacteria, will do the job.

And be aware that you have, at this moment lot of "sharp" stones that may cause some damage on the fishes when they chase each other around...

ok?


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

more rocks I understand, but why sand? 
I actually like the gravel that is in there now...

xclub your avatar is badass... btw...


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## xclub (Apr 15, 2008)

Cichlids, in general , love to dig, to make holes, to move sand from one place to another...in order to do so, the sand/gravel should be smaller so that it can fit into their mouth. If you really like the gravel that you have keep it of course but the way they dig, the way they move sand from one space to another is something that also you can enjoy in.

Having in mind that demasoni don't dig too much and Caerleus dig only when they want to spawn you don't have to add it, as I written in my last post.

Once again it is completely up to you my friend...


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

Wow... the demasoni are bit pricey.... before I go shell out $100+ for these guys, can anyone else throw in their $0.02 on if this will work out?

Thanks!

30 gallon long tank. 36X16X12.

Pseudotropheus demasoni - 12-15 
Yellow lab - 4-5


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## dwschacht (Jan 8, 2007)

Even with large numbers of demasoni, don't be surprised when you find dead fish...

I had 20+, I now have 7 and the 7 seem to be happier now. They stopped killing each other at least.

Be prepared for fish death in the tank...


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

What size is your tank? Pictures?



dwschacht said:


> Even with large numbers of demasoni, don't be surprised when you find dead fish...
> 
> I had 20+, I now have 7 and the 7 seem to be happier now. They stopped killing each other at least.
> 
> Be prepared for fish death in the tank...


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## xclub (Apr 15, 2008)

Ok. Now, I see that forum members have very high opinion of Ps. demasoni, I like that BUT there are several unavoidable facts.

PsDem's are:
-Aggressive, no matter how small they are
-Hard to breed, some people breed them with high success but that is the fact
-Hard to keep
-They kill each other just like that

In my country one PsDem cost from 1.5 to 3 euro and many , many cichlid lovers tried to have them in their tanks, spent a lot of money (the mentioned prices are high when you have in mind that average month salary is approx 200 euro) and many are disappointed because of above mentioned facts. They purchase PsDem's and lost them in just like that.

I don't say that this will happen to you but you can lose them all without any particular reason in a flash. They are "new species" and highly susceptible to Malawi Bloat and many, many other diseases.

Once again I must say that many cichlid keepers keep them without any major problems but what I have written above are pure facts.

Having all this facts in mind, think a little harder about PsDem's! Are you ready to keep them to fight with them???

Lab Caerleus is best possible fish to accompany PsDem's (that is the reason why I have suggested to keep them with PsDem's) in the tank because they have a strange influence on them and all species, they somehow keep the aggression down a lot. By my opinion you can have 5-6 caerleus and 6-8 dems, but in this case you must be sure that you have only one, max two males, (so that the aggression, that will be present no matter what, is in some kind of balance) and that is pretty hard to know even when they are mature so imagine the percentage of positive identification when they are small/juveniles&#8230;

Now I made a mass in your head, but that is also a part of Cichlidaristica :thumb:


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

What about Acei's or Cynotilapia afra (Chewere)?

Do you have any other personal suggestions? I am interested in something colorful that is compliment with my yellow labs. Other than that, I am not too picky.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't think they are hard to breed OR hard to keep. I wish I could figure out how to keep mine from breeding!

xclub, you are a proponent of breaking a rule now and then. I'll say this to the OP. People tried to talk me out of Demasoni for my first fish, and I didn't listen. I'm glad, because I would have never gotten into the hobby if I couldn't have the Dems.

There are a lot of other things that I didn't listen to that I'm sorry about. :lol: But starting out with Dems was good for me.


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

I've decided on 5 cynotilapia afra. To go with my 4 yellow labs.... maybe  :-?


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

Afra will be better than acei... Acei will not work in that tank. 1m/4f afra and 4-6 labs would be fine. I agree, double the rocks. Sand doesn't REALLY matter - they'll move anything around. Just make sure the rocks are super stable, they dig UNDER them and this can cause collapses.


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## xclub (Apr 15, 2008)

Well, concerning rules, as far as I know there are no rules in keeping cichlidss. There are some "standards" or better to say there is a usual way to keep them but rules&#8230; I respect the standard way of keeping them and I respect the position of every experienced and inexperienced Cichlidohollic but I tried something else and it work.

I agree that PsDem's are quite exciting, beautiful and daring to keep cichlid. I do not wish to throw back Whitespy9 from keeping them but I don't want to "let him" go with them without telling him potential/most common problems. 
I absolutely agree with DJRansome that Ps.Demasoni is a highly valuable and most desirable Mbuna and every Mbuna fan should eventually have them but you must agree that they can be very, very expensive and problematic to keep.
Concerning Afra vs Acei issue, I agree with dielikemoviestars that Afra will be better than Acei&#8230;

Chewere is nice fish&#8230;try with that combo and see where it will get you.

I already know the answer...it will get you falling in love in cichlids and purchasing a new 2 times larger tank and keeping demasoni, caerleus, chewere, socolofi, saulosi,Mpanga, ret top hongi, some albino species than some flavus, and than some&#8230;. :dancing:

...and then remember my words: it's all right...do not worry, you are not going crazy... :thumb:


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## dwschacht (Jan 8, 2007)

My fish were in a 46 gallon bow front. 36" long, 12 inches wide at the ends, 16" wide in the center, and 20" tall.

I had lots of rock work in the tank.

I have just relocated the fish outside into a pond for the summer so I can't really take any pics.

I am not saying go with one fish or another or to not keep dems, just be aware of the risks...

afra's are easy keeps. Good choice on the labs afras.


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

Here is what I ended up with!

Demasoni - 9 (That is all they had!)
Yellow Lab - 4
synodontis - 1

I've added another "shelf" of rock work as well!

I am tempted to add one more yellow lab....... I'll get some additional pics up shortly..


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## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

I am following this thread closely as I originally went through the same dilemma when I set up 6 months back.

I wanted the yellow lab and demasoni look, but though I have kept aquaria for greater than 20 years I did not want my first experience with Mbuna to end in a bloodbath, especially given my 30g tank size.

I ended up with a group of Labs and a group of Maingano - 6 of each (2M 4F) - and they are both beautiful and also active but peaceful tankmates. I say so with fingers crossed as they are still growing and, though sexually active already, I know things could change.

I also have 4 Acei courtesy of a friend who gave me his 2.5" juvies just last week (sex not yet determined though I'm guessing 2M 2F) - they enjoy the upper levels and their presence seems to relax the others a lot (a dither fish effect I guess). I was originally eyeing off Cy. Afra Cobue which I think is a stunning species, but they will have to wait for a second tank as my Acei are great citizens in my setup. I should add that my tank is not perfect for them being very tall, but some thought in terms of compex rockwork and open water areas plus powerheads providing flow seems to make them enjoy themselves in there.

Anyway, my point is that for anyone else considering the Yellow Lab and Demasoni combination, consider Maingano's as an alternative to the Dems if you are not quite sure. They are feisty without being so evil, totally stunning in their blue and black (albeit horizontal) stripes, and I have not regretted my decision for one second.


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

as promised here are pictures!
All the fish (so far 2 days) have been getting a long so well! There is absolutely NO aggression with the demasoni. Their is a little "play" but nothing serious.
The only one that might get put in time out is the largest fish in the bunch, a yellow lab.
He is the big boss and is chasing EVERYTHING around...... even the syndo. :x

I'm loving the new fishes.... thanks again to EVERYONE who replied to this post. Couldn't have made a better choice with the dems!

I know the tank looks "set-up" with the rocks, but I am still learning and the fish seem very happy. That's all that matters, right?  










:fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## Dewdrop (Nov 20, 2007)

Looks great! I think some albino socolofi would look good in there too but you probably have enough fish for a tank that size. It just looks bigger than a 30g. in the pics. The "bully" lab will probably settle down. I bet he just wants them to think he's the boss and that might be good thing with dems. Congrats on the tank and the fish you wanted.


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## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

Whitespy - looks really good! I even like the rockwork (though the white holey in the front stands out a little as being different to the others) and I'm sure the fish will love them.

Lighting seems just right and is one of the real strong points for me of your setup. Lots of light and shade contrast which I think is what "makes" a rock-based aquascape. Is it standard or have you deliberately chosen the light level and colour?

Nice fish too - seem bigger than the little 1.5 to 2 inchers that you so commonly see in LFS down here...

Well done buddy.


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

Thanks guys!

I bought everything from craigslist, so I can't say it was "deliberately" chosen, but I do have another light that is extremely bright and have taken that off. The lighting now really brings out the fishes colors.


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## bmills (Apr 17, 2008)

Looks good now but when time comes to replace your tube I can't recommend enough one that has a mix of normal light and acitinic blue. It makes the water look "deeper" and makes the fish look awesome.


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

Using this thread as kind of a tank journal.
I have just substrate to a solid white.
Same rocks. Same fish. New substrate.
I love the white, it really brightens up the tank and the fish seem to enjoy it too!


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

Update......

8 out of the 9 demansoni have died. 
I believe it was b/c of an illness they carried with them at the time of purchase though.

The yellow labs are getting big and the single demansoni seems to be doing well. The fish are VERY skittish though and I can rarely see them out other than at feeding times.

The demansoni died off (none the yellow labs) about 4 months ago.

Is it safe to add more demansoni? Should I not add anything else?
I am disappointed because with the current stocking (1 demansoni, 4 labs, 1 african cat) I hardly see any fish in my tank.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

If everything has been healthy for 4 months then it's safe to add 11 demasoni. I think it would help if you made your rockwork more dense so that the crevices and cracks are "fish-sized" and then there will be more hiding places and swim-throughs to help the fish being chased hide or escape more easily.


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## letstalkfish (Dec 25, 2008)

if you want to even out the aggression then maybe add a few cyno afra yellow mara rocks or psuedotrophues kingsizei both would stand up to demasoni


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## TheLaxPlayer (Dec 21, 2003)

http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aq ... eaths.html


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

I have added more places to hide than the pictures show since then. Maybe I should get up some newer pictures, as the tank does look a lot more natural now. 
But.... If I make the rock work dense (make the gaps smaller) won't that actually create less space for the fish to enjoy? 
I think I understand what you are saying though as the rock work now is divided, but open.



DJRansome said:


> If everything has been healthy for 4 months then it's safe to add 11 demasoni. I think it would help if you made your rockwork more dense so that the crevices and cracks are "fish-sized" and then there will be more hiding places and swim-throughs to help the fish being chased hide or escape more easily.


Thanks for linking that article Lax! It actually described my situation just about spot on. I just was using different medications. It really put me off on this whole hobby when it happened, but I'm ready to get back into it. Hopefully I have better luck this time!


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## TheLaxPlayer (Dec 21, 2003)

It worries me a bit as I'm looking at picking up 12-18 Demasoni in the near future. I haven't heard of anybody having this problem with another species, it seems to be something with the Demasoni. I'm hoping it's not a genetic problem affecting most of the species due to line breeding for color before they were on the market.... :?


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## bobberly1 (Dec 2, 2006)

Too bad. How's the lone syndontis doing? I've always liked them.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The purpose of the rocks are to (a) break up line of sight so males have boundaries for the territory they claim, and (b) provide escape and hiding places for females and sub-dominant fish. A tight spot is easier to defend than a roomy spot...the aggressor will just come right into the room with you and chase you out! Also think about the rocks as narrow alleys...if you can make a quick turn and disappear, the aggressor will lose sight of you and start chasing someone else!

My fish even turn their bodies sideways to fit into spaces that have "low" ceilings...even though there are plenty of places that are roomier.


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

he is doing great! has his own "spot" in the tank and you can always find him there upside down.

I think I'm going to stay away from any more demansoni and just go with a few more yellow labs. I think I have all males as well. probably doesn't help w/ the aggression. Wish there was a way to know for sure that I was going to get a female though.



bobberly1 said:


> Too bad. How's the lone syndontis doing? I've always liked them.


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

Petco is having a 50% sale on their 55 gallon stands! I'm going to pick one up and soon to follow a tank (probably from craigslist). woot woot! :dancing:


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

I have two 150 gph bio wheels. Is this enough filtration?

n/m. Looks like I need to double that.


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

Having 2nd thoughts on the 55 gallon.

Can anyone comment on adding a trio of salousi to my 36" tank? Currently has 3 labs, 1 demansoni, and 1 syndo.

Thank you!!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would not combine Saulosi and Demasoni in any tank let alone a 36" tank. Besides, you will just be adding more yellow (Saulosi females) and more blue barred fish (Saulosi male), so you really won't get more variety.


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## Whitespy9 (Oct 8, 2007)

ok. If I take the 1 lonely Demasoni to the LFS.
Thoughts?


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## illinois9er (Oct 20, 2004)

TheLaxPlayer said:


> It worries me a bit as I'm looking at picking up 12-18 Demasoni in the near future. I haven't heard of anybody having this problem with another species, it seems to be something with the Demasoni. I'm hoping it's not a genetic problem affecting most of the species due to line breeding for color before they were on the market.... :?


It has alot to do with that they are mini Satans in disguise and they insist on killing each other, it happens all of the time.


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## geotlyrae (Jul 3, 2008)

Been reading this thread from the beginning, and sorry to hear the loss of the Demasonis.. I also have a 36" tank with 4 Yellow Labs, 4 Rusties, and 7 Afra Cobues.. Also 3 Syno Multipuncactus. It seems a good combination for this tank. Everyone is happy so far. Tank has been up for 6 months with no sign of aggression so far.. I may have a few too many fish, but, I do plan to upgrade to a larger tank. Almost all my fish were bought online on aquabid.com. Hope this helps..

Geo


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

geotlyrae, in two more months the fun begins. And in six more months if they are still in the 36" tank, please report back. You've got 3 species which is a lot for a 36" tank but they are all dwarf...

Is it 18" deep or 12" deep? Front to back?


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## Mungobrush (Jan 10, 2009)

I have a 24G and was advised that a single species of yellow labs was the best option or shell dwellers. I have lost 1 Lab to fighting and removed three of the more aggressive demasoni, kingsiezi and Maingano.

Mungobrush


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## geotlyrae (Jul 3, 2008)

DJRansome said:


> geotlyrae, in two more months the fun begins. And in six more months if they are still in the 36" tank, please report back. You've got 3 species which is a lot for a 36" tank but they are all dwarf...
> 
> Is it 18" deep or 12" deep? Front to back?


Hi DJ..

I'm hopping in a few months I'll have the bigger tank.. Either a 125 gal (72") or a 80 gal bow (48"). So far, they all get along.. I'm worried about the Cobues.. Out of 7, 2 are males, 3 are females, but the other 2, not sure?? They're darker than the females, but semi color. (sub-dominant males??). 
This tank is a 46 bow and is 12" deep in the sides, and 16" in the middle. I have plenty of rocks and hiding places.. also lots of fake plants.. I'm also up in the air in whether to keep this as second tank, or get rid of it. My plans were to have one nice show tank, but did not know bout cichlids at that time..
One quick question..

When I get the larger tank, will I be able to add Demasonis with the Afra cobues?? I believe they look too much alike. What do you think??

Geo


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would stock an 80 bowfront like a 55G (limit of 3 species), so instead I would get a 75G rectangle or the 125G if I wanted to add species.

For an 80G bowfront, stick with 3 species, no Demasoni. With either of the other two tanks you could add a species or two. But I would not mix cobue and Demasoni. First they are both blue barred fish. But I've also read a lot about cobue needing to be the dominant fish in the tank to color up to their best potential. And THAT would not happen with Demasoni as tankmates, LOL.


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## geotlyrae (Jul 3, 2008)

If I keep the 46 gal, I'll then add Demasonis and Labs.. Although, after reading this thread and how he lost almost all, I'm wondering?? Here's an older picture of the 46 bow..
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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Don't base your decisions based on one person's experience. More people have success with Demasoni than failure. You may have to add fish initially or remove an aggressor from time to time, but their colors are worth it!

However, in your situation if you keep the 46G bowfront, I would make it a cobue species tank. The cobue is the finicky species in your fish house, so if you remove them from your show tank it removes all limitations. They are a dwarf and by being the only species, you are guaranteed they will be dominant. You might even try to get 3 males to color up.

Maybe we should let Whitespy9 have his thread back? You could start a new one if you have more questions.


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