# problems problems



## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

Ok I really dont know where to start. Well here goes. I have a 55 gallon tank that after I cycled I went to my LFS and they sold me way to much fish for the 55. No need to flame me. I know that this is way too much for this tank. They are all small so I decided that I would get a 180 sometime later this year. I already had one small oscar. anyhow he sold me 1 oscar, 1 green terror, 1 blue acara ( which I found out later is another green terror just smaller and alot lighter), 1 green texas, 1 firemouth, 1 jack dempsey, 1 rainbow, 1 salvini, and 1 black convict. So it tallies up to 10 1.5-2in fish. Like I said I am planning on getting the 6ft tank by december. So next the fun starts. about a week into it the Green terror who was the biggest became the boss. He ran the show until all of the sudden he started acting puney not wanting to eat. anyhow the other green terror who is alot smaller went over to close to him and i woke up the next morning with both of them dead. Well water levels are good dont know what happened. well immeditaly the tiger oscar takes over with the albino tiger oscar in second place. They eat like horses. Two weeks later the Tiger oscar goes in a corner and sits on the bottom not wanting to eat. The albino was fine. Then I look over there and the albino scooted under him and layed there with him . Neither one of them did much more than laying around. Which is way weird these O's had ALOT of personality. They day before they started looking puny I fed them a small cube of little frozen blood worm and that night frozen brine shrimp. the little ones. The next day is when they started acting weird. I checked my water levels and the PH was a little high. Call the Local fish guy he said that could have done it. Well in between the first set dieing and the second set dieing I knew that I was going to need with the oscars a better filtering system. I have 2 whisper 45 ex's. So I found a sweet deal on a Fluval FX5 canister brand new. So when I saw the oscar were acting weird and the ph was low I went ahead and hooked it up. I put ceramic pcs, carbon, and peat for the ph. NOW FOR THE FUN PART. I got all the lines run. and it set up. Turned it on and it blew the air out like it said it would for 2 minutes. then it supposed to cut off for 2 minutes, it did. When it turned on it started shooting water out everywhere where the screws that tightened the canister down. I unplugged it. It was still going everywhere. Lots and Lots of water everywhere. Total Kaos. Finally I had the brains to shut the in valve off.. I cleaned up water for an hour. As I was cleaning up I found the gasket that was supposed to be under the lid. great. well the water shot over the surge protector where everything was plugged it. So I unplugged it. After I got everything cleaned up. I said I am not letting this thing whip me. So I went thru all the proper procedures again cut it on and it worked perfect. Then looked over. and Both the oscars dead laying on the floor. I think when turning it on when that air cleared out of them it finally finished them off by scaring them to death. They were still alive and even swimming before I hooked this up. Well I plugged the canister into a diffent plug. I forgot to plug the heaters back in. So anyhow it ran all that night and the next day with the heaters off until i came home from work late last night. Cut on the lights and everyone is sluggish. Check the water level and It went the oposite way with the ph and dropped the alkalinity way down. so I turn off the FX5 because it has the peat in it and hooked up the other filters. after about 15 or 30 minutes all of the fish got their color back except the convict. I dont know if the 10 degree temp. drop got him or the ph. or the FX5 being Too much water flow for the 55. Anyhow this morning everyone is looking fine except the convict. He is still in the pot not coming out to eat. What should I do? Hook the FX5 back up without the peat or leave the old ones running. Anyhelp would be greatly appriciated. I am sure not in the mood for bashing. so if you want to do that dont bother. I am really frustrated. Thanks.


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

Lets get back to basics here.

What is your Ph from the tap? What are the tank Ph, Nitrites and Nitrates? Are you using drops to test or strips? How long did it take to cycle the tank?

What was the temp and what did it go down to?

I would not run any peat in the Fx5. Unless yje PH is really off, most fish will adjust to what it is.

When you added the FX% did you remove both Whispers? Because that is where your good bacteria was growing and you shouldnt disturb or remove that in a newer tank.

Sounds to me like there are nitrites and/or amonia in the tank. Either way a large water change would be a good idea

GL.....Bill


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

Could be ammonia spikes...have you checked it?

I know when I set up a new tank and it was cycling my O would act funny and go lay on the bottom when the ammonia would start getting high...wasn't feeling good.

With all the fish dying I'd definately say something isn't right in the water parameters. As stated before those fish are good about adjusting to different PH levels...think about it, they come from a LFS and you know they don't worry about PH. I don't mess with mine, think mine is living at a PH from 7.8-8.0, I had him in lower PH's and he was fine as well. I don't think the temp would matter that much unless it was extremely drastic temp. changes quickly...then it could cause shock possibly. I've had my O in water as cool as 72 and hot as 86.


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## StillaZilla (Aug 22, 2008)

I think the addition of 10 fish in a tank that may not have stabilized yet in cycling probably set off the ammonia and nitrite levels. I suggest testing these levels with a good test solution set, not strips, and try to fix any high readings with water changes. Sorry to hear about the losses, and good luck. Keep up informed.


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## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

the ammonia in the tank is 0. These fish were added a month ago.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

What temp are you running the tank?

What are your nitrate levels?


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

imfbrad said:


> the ammonia in the tank is 0. These fish were added a month ago.


How often are you doing water changes?


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## knfanning (Mar 5, 2009)

Ammonia isn't the only thing you need to test for. What are you Nitrite and Nitrate readings? If you don't have a way to test for them you should go buy yourself a kit. There are 2 kinds of bacteria that grow in your tank. One converts ammonia into nitrite(looks like you at least have these) Then there is the bacteria that converts the nitrite into nitrate(nitrate is removed by doing water changes) If your ammonia is at 0 you may be going through a nitrite spike in which case your fish will be suffocating. Take a look at their gills and if they are brownish odds are your nitrite levels are too high. Having no actual experience with any of this yet(I'm just setting up my first tank). I have been reading up on alot of this stuff since december so I would say go get a kit and give us your nitrite/nitrate readings and at very least do a 25% water change every 2/3 days. You are probably going to have to do bi/tri-weekly water changes anyways with all those fish you have in there.


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## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

i have tested everything. I do a 20% every 3 days. I check my chemistry regulary. Every thing looks good except what I have already posted. I keep temp 81-82 and it was at 72 degrees for a day


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## knfanning (Mar 5, 2009)

There's a small chance your test kit could be bad. Maybe take it to your LFS for a second opinion just in case? :-?


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Actually depending on the brand and or type of test ( strips or liquid reagent) it is very possible that your test is bad. API test strips come to mind . My experience with those is that they are very inaccurate if they work at all. Go buy another test kit (different brand) and try again I'm thinking you'll be surprised at the results. But do yourself a favor and spend the money for a higher end kit . They cost more but are worth it.


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

I love when peole ask for help and then dont answer ALL your questions or answer vaguely.

Sorry that we cant help you with the info you have given.

.....Bill


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## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

Dude I haven't gotten home yet to give you the exact numbers. I am on my phone. I have answered what I could while not at home. I don't remember the exact numbers. On my way home now.


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## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

nitrate 10
nitrite 0
hardness 75
chlorine 0
total alkalinity 20
ph 7.2

ammonia 0

I just did a 20% water change about 5 hours ago. I ran home and then went to my little girls recital. then got back and checked numbers.
It took the tank 7 weeks to cycle with fish.
Yes I turned the wipers off. it was only for 24 hours just as I did with heaters. there should be enough bacteria in the gravel I would think not to affect it especially for 24 hrs.
ph tap water about 7.2
I am using strips and liquid liquid is hagen and strips are jungle


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## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

also the water has always been crystal clear.


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## madzarembski (Jul 3, 2008)

Do they only develop symptoms after feeding the frozen foods?
madzarembski


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## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

that was the first and only time I have fed them frozen foods


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Well it goes without saying to stop feeding them the frozen food for now. One of them could be contaminated with something and since there's no real way to test it without harming the fish , so just trash it. Sounds like your doing everything else you can do right , so I think all you can do is wait and see if they recover. I'd keep the lights off for a while as well to lessen any possible stress from the bright light.

I really hate this kind of stuff. I've had these mysteries before and they are really frustrating . many times you never find out what causes them.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

What water conditioner are you using?


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## Malawidolphin (Dec 15, 2006)

I think it is the combination of all the chaotic things going on at the same time. If you kept the old filter on then your bacteria level shoul be fine. I don't think the fX5 is a current issue, I have run two Fluvals on a 55 g, a 304 & 404 with no issues. It could be that the frozen food was rotten. (if it has thawed, spoiled then re-froze. which can happen when delivered and sits out on the floor of a LFS waiting to be put away). I have had a temp. drop that was about 10 degrees also, during a very long power outage. My fish were obviously stressed but it didn't affect them long term. I have also forgotten to plug in the heater after a water change, same result. I don't know if you will pin point exactly what caused it but from here on in watch the remaining fish and check the water levels every day until everthing is stable again and move forward. I would use the FX5 without peat, your fish will only benefit form the extra filtration.


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## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

prime when i do a water change


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## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

update:
The convict and the firemouth died today. One thing that might be going on is the water out of the faucet is a little yellowish brown. what could that be?


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Bad water . Is it city water or a well? Either way that's where your problem might be (and likely is) coming from. I don't know whats realistic to do about it though.


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## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

city


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## Stiletto (May 17, 2009)

imfbrad said:


> update:
> The convict and the firemouth died today. One thing that might be going on is the water out of the faucet is a little yellowish brown. what could that be?


That sounds horrible. I could understand if you had well water or something but no city water supply should have yellowish brown water. Yellowish brown colors often are a sign of heavy metals in the water. Could be your plumbing or maybe just your hot water tank. Check your cold water by itself and see if it is also that color. If so check with a neighbor and see if thiers is the same. If so then I would be calling the water company to find out what the heck is going on.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

I agree the water should never be like that , and I hope your not drinking it either. I'd try what *Stiletto* said.


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## srook23 (Feb 21, 2009)

If the water is really that color you should either be using distilled bottled water or boiling water from the tap to make sure you get all the bad stuff out.

I live in hurricane central and we normally have our water contaminated during storms. When this happens we simply have to boil all our water before using it. If you have no other way you could get a big crawfish pot and a burner and boil large amounts of water at one time...I've done that before.


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in boiling the water untill he knows what the nature of the contamination is, might not do any good. I do agree with the bottled water though. Getting it in the 5g jugs is the best way .


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## illy-d (Nov 6, 2005)

Sometimes if the city does repairs, or if you are in a strata and there has been boiler work done you can get fouled water.

Don't add fish and don't do any water changes (from the tap) for a couple of days and see if things even out.


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## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

I had them come out( the city) they said everyting was good. time will tell the ones left are acting fine


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## Joels fish (Nov 17, 2007)

Is the water still discolored?


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## imfbrad (Apr 13, 2009)

no its not but fish continue to die. I noticed that a couple of fish bellys are bloated and they have a, looks like trailing poop, but not hard like poop. it looks like it intestine or something. Pet store said it might be a parasite so i treated it. So we will see how it goes.


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