# Under Gravel Jets (Water Pump)???



## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

Hi, I am currently using a ViaAqua 3600 water pump for my 75 gallon tank. There are a total of six jets in the tank at the moment. The specs on this pump state that it spits out 1057 GPH at a max head height of 10 feet.

http://www.petsolutions.com/storefr..._term=16971879&utm_campaign=ViaAquaWaterPumps

I thought that this pump might be too powerful, and inserted a ball valve in my wet dry filter to crank it down a little. But I am barely getting any pressure out of the jets, even with the ball valve fully open. Is this pump not powerful enough? Can someone please recommend a good pump for my system?

The reason why I went with the ViaAqua was that it seemed to use less wattage than most other pumps, such as the MAG. My pump uses 80 watts. But at this point, I just want some nice pressure. Please help :-?.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

how many elbows do you have in the system? I have heard that each elbow reduced the flow rate by 100 GPH. Also what size piping are you using? I hope its at least 1 inch before it splits otherwise you are creating a bunch of back-pressure on your system and essentially increase your head pressure.


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

3/4" pipe from water pump to bottom of tank - 2 elbows. Then it goes to 1" pipe from bottom of tank to top of tank (the pre-drilled section) - 1 elbow. Then it goes to 1/2" pipe within the tank - 7 elbows and 5 T fittings for the jets.

So does that translate to 900 GPH lost???


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

I should mention that this pump is not exclusive for the under gravel jets. It is also being used to cycle the water from my sump back into the tank. Two jobs in one I guess...


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

CORRECTION: 1" pipe from water pump to bottom of tank - 2 elbows. Then it goes to 1 1/4" pipe from bottom of tank to top of tank (the pre-drilled section) - 1 elbow. Then it goes to 1/2" pipe within the tank - 7 elbows and 5 T fittings for the jets.


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

I read on one of the articles in the library that the general rule is 200 GPH per jet. That equates to 1200 GPH for my 6 jets. I am thinking about the Quiet One Pump model 6000 which is stating 1506 GPH at a max head height of 12.2 feet.

http://www.petsolutions.com/storefr...-pumps/quiet-one-pumps/prodQuietOnePumps.html

But I'll wait for some feedback from you guys before I invest .


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

The VA3600 only outputs 1057 GPH at its max flow rate which is at 0 head. If I understand your setup correctly you have this under your tank as a sump pump return. What elevation is your sump top water level compared to the top water of your tank? If it is really far below your tank I couldn't imagine that you would get much water flow into your tank from that pump especially the way you described it, splitting the flow and then sending it down 1/2" and branching it off into 6 different sections.

I would have made it 1" inside your tank split into a tee and then from that tee maybe separate into another tee on both sides then from those tee's drop it to 1/2". You will have less of a pressure drop using a larger pipe diameter. There are many examples of under-gravel jet designs. I was going to build a reverse under-gravel filter but decided I could just put a fine sand down and that would prevent waste from entering the substrate.

You could pick up another pump for your sump return and put the VA3600 inside your tank to power the jets.


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

I am not sure how to answer the top water question, so here is a picture:










The thing is, I can't use a second pump. The line coming from the sump goes directly behind the DIY rocks and then into the under gravel jets. This picture may give you a better idea:










The tank is cycling at the moment, so my only option is to mess with the stuff under the tank. Can't do much in the tank. What are your thoughts on the more powerful pump? Would 1506 GPH be enough?

By the way, I liked your PVC cave concept. It would have looked amazing if you had covered it with the gray looking cement stuff you used  .


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

By the way, I am currently using a fine sand - cichlid substrate.










I just wrapped some artificial plants around the rocks today. I have to add some pictures of it though...


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

Gunjee said:


> By the way, I liked your PVC cave concept. It would have looked amazing if you had covered it with the gray looking cement stuff you used  .[/quote
> 
> Thanks. After building it I realized I should have built it a different way then I did and yeah the cement would have looked cool on it. But oh well I have learned a TON and all in all I am really liking my current design and I only have one panel that I need to weight down. With this design the fish can swim into the cave entrance and have enough space to turn around. My original PVC design lacked that which is why I switched designs. It would definitely work well for another tank built slightly differently.
> 
> ...


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## Vadimshevchuk (May 23, 2009)

I can't really help you much on your question but it seems to me like you have read my mind :roll: . I'm going with either a quiet 3000 or a 4000 on my 90 gallon with a 29 gallon sump and i will have the return plumbed straight to my UGJ! Good luck because i will be having the same set up in a month :thumb:


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

Vadimshevchuk said:


> I can't really help you much on your question but it seems to me like you have read my mind :roll: . I'm going with either a quiet 3000 or a 4000 on my 90 gallon with a 29 gallon sump and i will have the return plumbed straight to my UGJ! Good luck because i will be having the same set up in a month :thumb:


I hope your header piping is much larger and slowly drops in size after each tee. If not good luck. LOL :lol: For example go from 1" to 3/4" to 1/2" dropping a size after each Tee.


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

But I have 1" piping coming up to the tank. From that point, it is being reduced to 1/2" piping within the tank, and to all of the jets. I just took some pictures. Hope this gives you a better idea.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

Ok but once you drop it down to 1/2" inside your tank what is the design of the 6 jets. I will try to find a pump curve or flow rate at different head pressures for the pump you bought I am having a hard time.

Well I hate to say this but if I were you I would pull that panel out of your tank and replace it with a 1" pipe and then once it tees off keep it to 1" until you tee off again and then drop it down to 1/2" for your 6 jets. Sometimes you have to redo things to get it right. Heck I tried several different backdrops before I found one that worked the way I wanted it to.

Or option two pick up another pump that has a huge flow rate at a high head pressure and hope that it pumps enough water for your jets and use the pump you have just for your sump return to the tank.


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

Ok, I just drew this using paint. Hope it helps!










Thanks for all of your assistance man. I'd really hate to see the under gravel jets go to waste and become a decoration piece :-?.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

can you block off the top two jets poking out of your rocks? They will be the ones that will have like 90% plus of the flow for the jets. After you block off those two jets. Then you will get most of your flow from the two in the loop followed by around 1/4" the flow from the third one in the line (not counting the two poking out of the rocks). And the last one on the system will be decoration.

If I were you I would redesign the tank but that's just me.


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

I am not worried about the pump I already have. It will not go to waste, as I could use it for water changes. I guess I'll try to get the bigger pump and see what happens...


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

I wish I could redesign. But that is not possible. I spent hours putting the rocks together with pond foam and then covering the foam up with sand and resin. I wish I had done some more research regarding the under gravel jets.

I may be able to add another pump in the tank. I could remove the elbow from the return line and turn it around 180 degrees, and then add a pump to it. What is the GPH I should be looking for if I decide to put a small pump in the tank that will be used just to power the 6 jets?


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

Could you take the panel out and build this design? With this way you would get a better flow to all of the jets.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

Gunjee said:


> I may be able to add another pump in the tank. I could remove the elbow from the return line and turn it around 180 degrees, and then add a pump to it. What is the GPH I should be looking for if I decide to put a small pump in the tank that will be used just to power the 6 jets?


Can you draw me a picture? I am not quite sure what you are trying to do with the 180 deg bend.



> I spent hours putting the rocks together with pond foam and then covering the foam up with sand and resin.


Trust me I know how long backdrops take to make.


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

Here is what I am describing, when I say that I can add another pump in the tank.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

That will help some but you will get most of your flow from the first few jets in your system since they are directly off your main 1/2" line. What about ditching the undergavel jets and just putting in 1 Koralia Magnum in your tank to circulate the water and move waste off of the substrate?


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## Gunjee (Sep 2, 2008)

Sounds like that is what I am going to have to do...ditch the under gravel jets  . I guess I will go with the Koralia. Thanks for all of your help man. Much appreciated!


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

Gunjee said:


> Sounds like that is what I am going to have to do...ditch the under gravel jets  . I guess I will go with the Koralia. Thanks for all of your help man. Much appreciated!


No problem. Give it a day or two before you ditch the design to see what others say but I would be surprised if they say otherwise. Keep us posted.


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## Agridion (Sep 8, 2010)

Gunjee what did you end up doing?


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## Talonflame (Apr 13, 2017)

Im making use of this pump for water variations from crazysales fish supplies in my 60 gallon aquarium. I position the pump in the bucket, gravel vac from tank to said bucket. The pump sucks water from the bucket through 25 feet of tubing to the bathtub two rooms over. I have got to pinch the gravel vac tube sometimes to let the pump catch up. To fill the tank, I fill a 30 gallon container through the bathtub, insert to pump and move the water back from the 25 feet of tubing, up 5 feet and in the tank. It isnt the quickest pump and i also wish I needed got a larger one for my use -BUT- it can work we have no complaints regarding the pump itself.


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