# Fishes dying



## Vystress (Apr 6, 2008)

I had an aquarium with 80 liters and 4 pseudotropehus estherae and 1 zebra. After my last change of water 2 estherae died and 1 is very bad: keeps quiet on one corner and is getting an unhealthy pale color, besides degraded fins, which I am not sure if it's not a consequence of the attacks of the remaining estherae.

Unfortunatelly I have lost many fish this way, ie, after changing water. Muy usual proceding is to remove around 15% every 15 days, add chloro nullifier, check if teh temperature is the same than the water on the aquarium (not always I do this) and, after adding the water, I also add bacteria.

Does anyone know what is happening?

Thanks


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## FishandFire (Jul 2, 2007)

Adding the chlorine remover is good, but I'm not sure why you are adding the bacteria. If the tank has been up and running for a while, the bacteria base should be established. When you do a water change, you remove very little of the bacteria. The bacteria live on the rocks, sand, filter media, etc., not in the water column.

Increasing the amount of water and frequency wouldn't hurt either. I typically do 50% change once a week.


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## DMWave45 (Jan 22, 2008)

I agree, either increase the frequency of the water changes or increase the ammount. And like was just said, adding bacteria is unecesary. Part of your problem is that you have a tank that is too small to be keeping the type of fish that you have. I'm not sure what you mean by pseudotropehus estherae or what you mean by zebra is either but I'm sure one of them is a metriaclima estherae. And in that case these fish should not be kept in anything less than a 55Gal tank IMO.


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## sheeshshe (Apr 11, 2006)

how thorough are you with making sure you dont have any lotion or soap residues on your hands or equipment when you do the changes?

also, do you have an aragonite or crushed coral substrate or anything like that that is upping your pH etc in the tank and then adding water that is an entirley different pH? perhaps it wouldnt make much of a different with only a 15% change though...


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## Vystress (Apr 6, 2008)

Thanks for your replies.

About the fish names, I am sorry, I am portuguese and I don't know the english names :-? . On another words, I have 2 yellow fish with a black strip on the upper fin and a stripped black and blue fish. I used to have more, but I won't buy more until I solve this problem.

I now only dare to change water every 2 weeks, if as much, since almost every change brings disaster.

I know I have a small aquarium. I have another one, 400 liters, that I can't use yet. I am worried that when I change the fish to this one they keep dying.

I also thought of some detergent residue or such on the bucket, for instance, despite the care I have in not using it for other purposes than the water exchanges. Could such residue cause this? The fact that the yellow fish loses its color gives any hint?

Public water has 7.5 ph and I have limestone rock on the aquarium.

Thanks in advance


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

It sounds to me like your dechlorinator is not working and the chlorine is killing your fish.

Test your tap water for chlorine / chloromine.

Then add the conditioner.... and test again.

Let us know what happens with that.

My only other guess is like others have suggested.. some type of contaminants in or on something going in the water.

It sounds like you have Lab. caeruleus (yellow lab or electric yellow) and maybe a demasoni? got any pics?

*edit*
Another concern is that you are adding bacteria at each water change??? What EXACTLY are you adding?

Don't do any more water changes until this is figured out.. They will survive high nitrates for a while better than a water change from the sounds of it.


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## dielikemoviestars (Oct 23, 2007)

It almost sounds like the fish are getting beaten up - if it's hiding in the corner, that sounds like it's being bullied, not like chlorine poisoning. Chlorine usually kills fish within hours.


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## Cichlid Power (Oct 11, 2006)

Thats exactly what I was going to say. Sounds the like fish getting beat up to me. IMO, and i experienced this on a grand scale this weekend.........chlorine and most other containminants kill fish fairly quickly.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

You may have more than one problem, but the main one that I see is that you tried to keep 5 highly aggressive fish in a 20G tank, if you really meant 80 litres.

These fish are very territorial, and in that size tank, only one will survive.

Kim


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

I agree that he has agressive fish together in too small a tank.. however he has not said anywhere that the deaths are not happening soon after the water change. He has also said that he has yellow labs and a blue /black striped fish (unidentified) and the deaths are still happening. Yellow labs are not aggresive enough to kill anyone.
That theory also doesn't explain why he's only losing the fish after a water change.

I think he should still check the dechlorinator.

The other thing he said of concern is that he doesn't always check the temperature of the new water at a water change. If the temp is grosly different, that'll cause enough stress on top of the aggression, to kill fish after a water change.

But yes, get different fish for a 80L tank.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I don't disagree with you, Boomr99. I'm willing to bet there's more than one problem here.

Even Yellow labs need more than a 20G tank. :wink:

They _are_ cichlids.

This is highly indicative of aggression problems being at the root of these deaths:



> keeps quiet on one corner and is getting an unhealthy pale color, besides degraded fins, which I am not sure if it's not a consequence of the attacks of the remaining estherae.


What happened with the "estherae" and "zebra"? Were you confusing them with the Yellow labs?

Check your dechlorinator to make sure it's effective against both chlorine and chloramines.

How did you cycle the tank?

What are your current water parameters?

What are the temperature fluctuations when you do the water changes? Are they drastic?

If they aren't anymore than a couple of degrees, it won't hurt anything.

Kim


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## Boomr99 (Dec 19, 2007)

:thumb: cichlidaholic... I agree completely
We do need more info to help further....


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## Vystress (Apr 6, 2008)

The fish are 2 Yellow Lab and 1 Demasoni, yes. One of the Yellow Labs is bullying the remaining one, yes. Besides this, the victim is getting a pale colour.

Once someone told me the fish dying has something to do with the temperature difference, but when I made sure the temperature of the water I was going to add was about the same, it happened the same.

I must add that if I change 2,5 gallon (10 liters, 12,5% of the total) sometimes the fish don't die, but I change 5 gallon, 25%, it is certain some fish will die.

Also, and sorry for not mentioning this before, the deaths don't occur immediatelly or in the next hours of the water change, but on the next days. The symptoms (fish getting quiet and getting pale) start happening some hours after but they endure for smoe days yet (some fish even recovered, sometimes).

Water is usually at about 24Âº Celsius (some 75 F), sometimes more, in the Summer.

Will check my dechlorinator to make sure it's effective against both chlorine and chloramines as soon as I get home (am away for a couple of days).

Thanks for your replies


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What is the pH of your tap water? What is the pH of the water in your tank before you do a change?


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

I think the small tank with the aggressive fish is clouding the issue a bit.

If the deaths aren't happening within 24 hours, I don't see this being water related. But, it would be good to hear your ph out of the tap and the ph of the tank.

I think you're best answers are in getting a larger tank or getting suitable fish for the one that you have before you wind up with just one fish in that tank.

Kim


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## Vystress (Apr 6, 2008)

Water ph is 7,5.

I see tank size is a big issue here. I will set up a bigger tank (400 liter, 105 gallons) that I have (I haven't set it up yet because my house is being remodeled) in some months and then, if the problem remains, I'll post again.

Thanks for your help.


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