# Selecting rocks and substrate



## TDSapp (Dec 18, 2008)

I am setting up my first real Cichlid tank. I use to have a 20 long (or something like that) about 20 years ago. I kept tropical type fish and right before I went into the military I raised a couple Oscars. While researching cichlids I discovered that the Oscars were cichlids and I had them in way to small of a tank. I had gotten rid of them before they got to big anyway.

So now I have a 55 gal tank and and real close to finishing the stand. (building my own as the wife does not like the iron stand that came with the tank.) Once the stain hits the stand I will bring it into the house and start cycling the tank while I finish the doors and drawers

But for now I am trying to select my rocks and the substrate.

I am planning on a Munba tank that is not to aggressive. I am currently looking at...

Pseudotropheus saulosi
Metriaclima estherae
Labidochromis caeruleus

and maybe Metriaclima callainos

I know the 55 gal cookie cutter says only three breeds on the list but the wife would really like a bright blue fish. I am not sure however how it will do with the Metriaclima estherae. I can get more into that in two or three weeks, after the cycle is done. (a fishless cycle with used media from a known tank)

So, I am assuming that I need, and the wife desires, a gravel\rock substrate. We have two choices, one is to get the gravel from petsmart (cheaper than the good LFS where I will get the fish), or drop by the local lake and grabbing some really cool rock from a local fishing point. That's not really a major point for me since either way it's not going to cost too much.

What I am now really looking into is the rocks for the back ground and the layers in the tank for the fish to swim around the through. With that I visited a rock company in the North Dallas area so see what they had. They gave me a few of the rocks to take home, clean, bleach, and drop vinegar into to see what it would do.

I soaked all the rocks in bleach for about 12 hours and then scrubbed them down with a Scotch-Brite sponge. I only put the vinegar on the one rock with the red in it. I was worried that it was iron and would cause a problem. However, it did not react with the vinegar and according to the new library article (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/rock_metals.php) I may be able to use the rock. Yall take a look and let me know what you think. I might also go pick up the HCl and test the rocks as the article suggest.










#1 is a real heavy rock with some great colors in it. However, the colors might be some metals that can cause problems in the future. This chunk of rock is about the smallest of this type of rock I found. They get quite large and a HEAVY. They said it was the most dense rock they had on the site.

#2 is called ElDorado and is a man made rock. It's a light concrete that is molded and then colored. It's flat on the back and is very light. I am considering using it for my background. They have quite a bit of this "rock" and want to get rid of it. I could probably get what I need for the tank very cheap. 

#3 and #4 are types of Limestone. #4 is an Oklahoma stone and I can't remember where #3 is from. The guy at the office was able to tell me where each of the rocks came from and really knew his stuff.

#5 is just a Mississippi River Stone and they have tons of it in many sizes. I am going to use a few of the larger ones towards the front of the tank and in the stacks of the flat rocks to help create layers and caves. They range anywhere from .5 inches to about 4 inches with some marbling of the colors.

So, do yall (Yeah, I live in Texas and I am allowed to say Yall) have any concerns with the rocks that I have in the photo? I can take more photos with more details if anyone thinks they need them.

Tim Sapp


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## Robchester_2000 (Nov 8, 2008)

i think go with a couple of types of rock, pile the limestone at the back, then have the river rock in the substrate at the middle and foreground, thats what i did in my tank and the fish seem to like the two different areas to play. click my tanks tab and see what you think. i would also recomend sand, looks good, and easy to clean. as for species, you have three that are going to look really similar, why not lose one and put another type of blue in? a nice mix would be labs, acei, maingano or socolfi?


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## TDSapp (Dec 18, 2008)

Robchester_2000 said:


> i think go with a couple of types of rock, pile the limestone at the back, then have the river rock in the substrate at the middle and foreground, thats what i did in my tank and the fish seem to like the two different areas to play. click my tanks tab and see what you think. i would also recomend sand, looks good, and easy to clean. as for species, you have three that are going to look really similar, why not lose one and put another type of blue in? a nice mix would be labs, acei, maingano or socolfi?


That is what I am heading to. I was thinking about using #2 as a background or just painting the back of the tank black. #3 and #4 would be used as a stacking material to create caves and layers in the back and middle of the tank. The river stone (#5) is going to be used some in the stacks but I am going to be placing them towards the front of the tank as well. I am shooting for a layered effect from bottom to top and back to front.

I guess no one has problems with the types of rocks in the picture. I was really looking to see if someone saw rocks in my selection that would cause problems with the fish.

--

How would the fish in your suggestion get along with each other? I was just going with the cookie cutter selections at http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... er_55g.php for the tank. Since I am so new at this I am still a bit lost with the names. I know the labs are Labidochromis and the acei is a Pseudotropheus sp. But what is a maingano or socolfi?

Tim


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## JWerner2 (Jul 7, 2008)

It all depends on back ground :thumb:

I got a black background which would look good with lots of stuff. Right now Im using play sand and river rocks. The river rocks have loads of earthy natural colors and look great! If you do a cement background it all depends on the shape of rocks you cut out as well as the colors.

Next tank is a smaller one with a black crevice like background with black rocks and black sand.

It all depends. There are so many variables and often a simple tank that utilizes no variables like the all black can look great anyway.

Its all up to your personal taste I guess. Thats my opinion on looks.


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## Curator (Feb 18, 2009)

If i where you id test # 4 in a small tank with like some guppies or goldfish for a couple weeks to a month just to make sure, *** been told that some yellowish limestone has sulfur in it, which is deadly to all fish...even in small amounts... if it was me, id probably use a mixture of 3 and 4 if 4 turned out to be safe, and 5 for some extra decoration...

Im no expert though, im just starting out myself in the hobby, although *** been keeping tropical fish since I was about 4 years old,lol... (20 years) cichlids are new for me, but have rapidly become my favorite fish... *** found during my research that one should also really take into account how similar the females of each species are, I know most people dont care, but at least for me, id prefer to know that my fishes genetic stock was going to stay pure, so if I gave some fry to friends id know they where getting the real deal and I wasnt polluting the market with hybrids/muts... Its especially important now that so much of their environment is being threatened, but I guess it really only matters if you plan on keeping a rare/threatened species...

If your looking for a really interesting species that you could keep a school of for a single species tank, Pseudotropheus Demasoni is a really interesting species, very beautiful, and lots of personality, but from what *** been told, its not good to keep less than 12 or so in a tank, that way any aggression can be distributed amongst more fish... they are a really beautiful blue with black stripes you should check them out if you havnt already

(oh, btw I really like rock #1, but it does look like it could have allot of iron in it... I have a few rocks that look similar only round, and one actually rusted after i put it in the test tank, so needless to say, that one came out,lol)


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## natalie559 (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi Tim,



TDSapp said:


> I am planning on a Munba tank that is not to aggressive. I am currently looking at...
> 
> Pseudotropheus saulosi
> Metriaclima estherae
> ...


Try the mbuna sub section for stocking questions, there are a lot of knowledgeable people that can help. My only comment was that with the saulosi and labs that there would be a lot of yellow. Also the red zebras and yellow labs are known to crossbreed so you wouldn't want to combine those if you were concerned over hybrids. Something to consider.



TDSapp said:


> So, I am assuming that I need, and the wife desires, a gravel\rock substrate.


A lot of us use sand instead of gravel in our mbuna tanks. The fish really interact with the sand if I find it enjoyable. Cheaper as well.



TDSapp said:


> What I am now really looking into is the rocks for the back ground and the layers in the tank for the fish to swim around the through.
> 
> So, do yall (Yeah, I live in Texas and I am allowed to say Yall)


I say yall too and think it is funny that you live in Texas where one of the most sought after rock comes from, texas holy rock, and you are looking at other types. Some would love to be living where you are but instead pay a small fortune for your rocks.


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## Metalshade (Feb 14, 2009)

Texas Holey Rock (Honeycomb Limestone) is not as readily available as you my think.
My family lives in central Texas were it is supposed to be plentiful.
I searched forever down there and only found one rock and it did not have any holes it it.
Although there is plenty of Limestone to be found. I am starting to build a nice collection of rock from the Llano River area.

The Red Zebras are a bit on the aggressive side.
You may need more rock and hiding places in your tank for Mbuna.
But the Malawi Forum will let you know correctly.

I just brought home a load of fish from Dallas North Aquarium a week ago.
They are all Peaceful to Mildly Aggressive and look great in my tank.
Here is a link to some photos should you want to check it out.
http://mysite.verizon.net/resyadnv/id1.html

PS I will have to give away alot of Victorians some day. Let me know if you want any.
I cannot keep all 30 of them. That is for sure. They can grow to about 5".


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