# Bloat??



## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

My Male Venustus has not eaten for 8 days. He comes up for food and spits the pellets. He was the dominant fish in the tank and seems to be so still although he is not commanding the tank like he used too. He also seems to be more reserved and starting to hide beind some of the rocks but not all the time. I read the article on Bloat and I dont see any other symptoms except for the cough type of mouth movement like he is trying to spit something. Havent seen any feces from him(maybe because he isnt eating?) Tank details are below, Im starting to get a little concerned. Any thoughts?

Tank Dimensions 180 gallon 6x2x2
Two Eheim Pro 2028 filters
One Eshopps wet dry
All Male setup Haps Peacocks
Substrate Crushed Coral
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
Ph 8.0
KH 143.2 Gh 196.9
Weekly water changes 60-70%
Temp 78

Feeding NLS Pellets 5 days per week 1x per day


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## mr_dorito (Jun 16, 2013)

Are you feeding them Anything other than Pelets?


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

mr_dorito said:


> Are you feeding them Anything other than Pelets?


I had been feeding them NLS flakes with the pellets but they are a waste as most get sucked into the overflow box. The only other food I was using was the Hikari Cichlid gold but the NLS is the main part of their diet.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Now i noticed that my Rhoadesii and my Lenthrinops after eating are spitting out long strands of what looks like the food in a stringy form????/ ALmost like a mucous. What the Heck???


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## mr_dorito (Jun 16, 2013)

To be honest I dont exactly know what it could be whith out more symptoms post more symptoms as they come up and try not to get any tank water in any cuts. Because chiclids can get diseases that can infect people to. And you could all ways try some new food for them.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

mr_dorito said:


> To be honest I dont exactly know what it could be whith out more symptoms post more symptoms as they come up and try not to get any tank water in any cuts. Because chiclids can get diseases that can infect people to. And you could all ways try some new food for them.


 I will keep an eye out for symptoms. My concern is that if I wait for more symptoms and dont start any treatment early I may suffer some casualties. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Really looking for some help, dont want to lose a bunch of fish. Thanks!


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

Isolate the Venustus and begin treating with metro. I would also advise a treatment for the entire tank. This article should help - Malawi Bloat

Was anything added recently?


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

DanniGirl said:


> Isolate the Venustus and begin treating with metro. I would also advise a treatment for the entire tank. This article should help - Malawi Bloat
> 
> Was anything added recently?


Dannigirl, have not added anything in about a month. I think I need to treat the whole tank as a couple more fish are starting to spit as well. Is the Metro more effective than the Clout? I did read the article and I also read the cure using Clout but I dont want to stain the tank unless its totally necessary. The clout cure seems less labor intensive and there were a couple of nice testimonies. You know much better than i do so I will go with whatever you say, and thank you for the help. I hope I can get them all cured as it doesnt seem to be bad yet.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

You said the Rhoadesii and Lethrinops are 'spitting' long, food colored strands. Did you mean they are defecating long strands? If so, is it white/clear and threadlike?


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## DanniGirl (Jan 25, 2007)

If it's Bloat, I prefer to use Clout in a hospital tank. For the main tank, I would suggest the metro-soaked food.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> You said the Rhoadesii and Lethrinops are 'spitting' long, food colored strands. Did you mean they are defecating long strands? If so, is it white/clear and threadlike?


 No *** been looking for that but I have not even seen them pooping in the past two days (Lenthrinops , Rhoadesii and Venustus). They are spitting out the food after mouthing it for 5 minutes or so and it looks like a strand of mucous mixed with food. I have never seen anything like that before.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I think you should treat the whole tank with Metronidazole. Soak your food in a small amount of water with enough metro for a full tank dosage. This way, the fish that are eating are ingesting the medicated food, and the ones that are not are being treated with the dosage in the water column. Follow directions in the article linked above.

PM me for a vendor(site sponsor) who can provide the Metro and next day air it.

DanniGirl may provide further info, or possibly a different route, but this is what I was advised to do in the past. The faster you move on it, the better.


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

Metro is only effective for 8 hours, so I would do a dose in the morning with 50% water change before the dosage and in the evening with a 50% water change before the 2nd dosage. I would also do this for 10 days.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

gverde said:


> Metro is only effective for 8 hours, so I would do a dose in the morning with 50% water change before the dosage and in the evening with a 50% water change before the 2nd dosage. I would also do this for 10 days.


My Metro should arrive tomorrow (finally)! Good thing as more of my fish are refusing to eat. Everything I have read on the internet is one daily dose plus a 25% water change. I appreciate the advice and certain you have way more experience than I do. Are the label directions not the way to go? Im just nervous to cause more harm to the fish than they already have. Sounds like you may have learned to do this from some hard earned experience.

Also with the Metro will this kill my Biological filtration like the Clout would? I can stop my wet dry from running cover the Bio balls with water and add a air hose to the sump. I have two eheim cannisters running with no Carbon. Any thoughts on this?

Also if no water is running into the wet dry if I stop it wont any of the parasites that may be in the wet dry water be re introduced into the tank once I start it up again?
Thanks for your suggestions.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Check the bloat article linked below if you haven't already.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

GTZ said:


> Check the bloat article linked below if you haven't already.


Thanks, I did read it. I just read a lot and get confused with opinions. Im going to go with the info in the article. I'll flood my wet dry and put an airstone in it. Do you think that will be sufficient for the ten day period where I wont lose my BB?


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

Metronidazole should have no effect on your beneficial bacteria.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

GTZ said:


> Metronidazole should have no effect on your beneficial bacteria.


Thank you.

*** moved my wave maker to the surface for more aeration. My return pump on the wet dry does a good job of aeration as well. I was afraid I was going to lose that if I had to turn off the wet dry. Appreciate your help


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

"My Metro should arrive tomorrow (finally)! Good thing as more of my fish are refusing to eat. Everything I have read on the internet is one daily dose plus a 25% water change. I appreciate the advice and certain you have way more experience than I do. Are the label directions not the way to go? Im just nervous to cause more harm to the fish than they already have. Sounds like you may have learned to do this from some hard earned experience."

If you are going to treat the whole tank, using pellets soaked in metro is the best way to go. Feed in the morning and in the evening. You don't need to do the 2 water changes, only your normal changes. This is only good though, if the fish are eating. Dosing the main tank will deplete your metro unless you have a lot of it. Now if you are going to use a 10G hospital tank then I would do the two dosages and water changes in between. Most directions say to dose every 24 hours but I find that the 2 dosages are more effective and metro is hard to overdose on anyway. Metro is also not very water soluble. I find that grinding up the powder even more will make it dissolve better. I had a 7" hap that had extreme bloat and was literally on his death bed. You could actually scoop him up with your bare hands. I started intravenously force feeding him metro with some antibiotics because he also developed secondary fungus infection all over his body. I did this for 10-14 days with the 2 dosages a day and he is alive and fully recovered. He was a fairly rare hap so I didn't want to loose him. Bloat is very hard to cure. Most fish will have 50% or less chance of recovery. You have to catch it right away and start medicating. Hope this helps. Glenn.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

gverde

Thank you for your help. I'll do the best I can for these guys, Id hate to lose one of them. I appreciate your advice. Lets see what happens. First time Im experiencing Bloat. Have pristine water conditions and dont overfeed. Not sure what else could have caused this?


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

Stress is usually the main factor. Aggression towards each other.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

gverde said:


> Stress is usually the main factor. Aggression towards each other.


I have actually removed a couple of the more timid fish in the tank and one of the troublemakers. Tank seems calmer now. So far I have not lost any of these fish but none have returned to eating yet. They all seem to have no change but not gotten any worse.

Curious how you fed your fish Intravenously?

Thanks.


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

fishing12 said:


> gverde said:
> 
> 
> > Stress is usually the main factor. Aggression towards each other.
> ...


I wasn't feeding the sick fish intravenously but giving him medication. I used those plastic disposable syringes without the needle that newborns and toddlers use for dispensing medications like tylenol. You can get them at walgreens or drug stores.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

gverde said:


> fishing12 said:
> 
> 
> > gverde said:
> ...


Got it. Guess you just opened his mouth and squeezed a half tsp or whatever you could get into him? I think Im starting to realize my Rhoadesii is probably in need of something like this if he is to make it.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Well it didnt take long only 4 months to kill one of my fish $%&$*#*@!#$!!! Rhoadesii is gone. He had a very bloated belly and almost what looked like a small pin hole on his underside just in back where his gills ended. Venustus still not eating, Polystigma and Lenthrinops spitting food. Really ticked, What a curse this disease is!!


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Figured Id keep the thread updated. Been doing the Metro and Epsom salt treatments. Day 7 of treatment. Started the twice a day treatment yesterday with 50% water changes. My Venusuts will be lucky to see tomorrow I think. His abdomen is pretty swollen and hiding more, same thing happened with the Rhoadesii. My Blue Dolphin Manda is not eating either (sucks). On a positive note my Lenthrinops and Polystigma accepted and finished pellets tonight so they seem to be on the mend I hope. I'll keep trying to save them but this seems like a pretty dreadful disease for them and not great odds.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

It is very frustrating. Keep doing the twice daily and good luck.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Venustus is gone.

Can Metro cause enough stress to have some of my fish to get frayed fins? A couple of them appear to have some fins that look frayed yet I have seen no aggression out of the ordinary from any of them. This sure has been a trying couple of weeks. Cant wait for my tank to get back in order


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Sorry to hear about the Nimbo.

I did not experience the frayed fins, nor have I read about it.

How are the others doing? Once it appears to have cleared up, I would soak their food in Metro for a week or two afterwards, just to be on the safe side.


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## GABBA (Jun 3, 2011)

I am in virtually the same situation. I have a 6ft x 1.5ft x 2ft all-male hap/peacock/yellow lab tank and have lost two fish in the past 5 weeks to what I beleive may be Malawi Bloat. My, once very active, Dimidiochromis compressiceps has stopped eating and is excreting a white stringy thread (apparently it is the mucus membrane of the intestine). While it may be too late for the D. Comp (which is very unfortunate as he is very nice looking), I am trying to prevent any other causalities.

I bought a pack of 400mg Metro tablets and have started the medicating. This is the first time I have medicated a tank and am not to confident. I have started the following dosing regime, please make comments:

(Morning) Soak pellets in Metro solution. One 400mg tablet per 64 litres (that equates to 8 tablets in a 509 litre tank). Pour remaining Metro into water column (in hope that it has a positive affect on the D. Comp)

(Evening) Repeat.

Repeat the above over a 5 day period. Performing a 25% - 50% PWC on Day 3. Temp is at 28 degrees Celsius (approx. 90 degrees F). Aeration increased. Lights turned off.

Right now, all fish except the D. Comp are eating, but I dont want to count my chickens before they hatch. This really is a painful process.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Sorry to hear about the Nimbo.
> 
> I did not experience the frayed fins, nor have I read about it.
> 
> How are the others doing? Once it appears to have cleared up, I would soak their food in Metro for a week or two afterwards, just to be on the safe side.


Thanks Iggy. I believe from previous posts you went through this as well. Mad at losing the Venustus, the only upside is I have a Polystigma in the tank as well so maybe in the long run it would not have worked out with both of them together.

The only other fish left causing me concern is My Blue Dolphin Manda. He is not eating. I think all the others seem to be ok and I will continue to feed pellet soaked in Metro for a while. Any thoughts if I should continue treating the whole tank past ten day mark?? Maybe it will help the Dolphin out.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

GABBA said:


> I am in virtually the same situation. I have a 6ft x 1.5ft x 2ft all-male hap/peacock/yellow lab tank and have lost two fish in the past 5 weeks to what I beleive may be Malawi Bloat. My, once very active, Dimidiochromis compressiceps has stopped eating and is excreting a white stringy thread (apparently it is the mucus membrane of the intestine). While it may be too late for the D. Comp (which is very unfortunate as he is very nice looking), I am trying to prevent any other causalities.
> 
> I bought a pack of 400mg Metro tablets and have started the medicating. This is the first time I have medicated a tank and am not to confident. I have started the following dosing regime, please make comments:
> 
> ...


Im no expert and I am relying on the article and info posted here by other members so i dont have a lot I can add. I have a couple of question though. Did you remove any carbon from your filters so it doesnt remove the metro? Also why do you have your tank at 90 degrees. Even when my fish had ick I only turned the heat up to 85 degrees. Maybe someone else can chime in with the temperature and your overall treatment. Best of luck, Bloat sucks!


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## notho2000 (Dec 8, 2012)

Actually 28 oC is just 82 oF. I agree. Bloat sucks. I just lost 6 Thorichthys pasionis to it.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

> Any thoughts if I should continue treating the whole tank past ten day mark?? Maybe it will help the Dolphin out.


Honestly, I just don't know. I think you have 2 options...

1) Give the tank a rest for 2 days and then start another round of metro

2) Remove the 'Manda' to a hospital tank and start another round of meds. Continue to soak food in Metro for main tank.

I like option 2 better. The bloat article on here says something about starting another treatment if the first one was not successful.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Can anyone tell me if I can retreat my tank with Metro? I have treated for ten days with three days off. I still have a couple of fish spitting and not eating. They dont look too advanced with disease and Im wondering if another round of treatment would be beneficial or could it cause more harm?

Any advice is appreciated as i have already lost two fish and dont want to lose another three if I can help it. A hospital tank it not an option currently and the whole tank I think needs to be treated, like I said if it will not do more harm than good. Thanks.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I have done back to back treatments. This quote comes from the 'Malawi Bloat' article under the Metro treatment section:



> If after 5 treatments you've noticed an improvement as well as a bowel movement, attempt feeding metro treated food, otherwise, wait 24 hours and begin treatment again, starting with a 30% water change.


This indicates yes, start another round.

Again here, for the Clout treatment:



> If after five days, you still don't notice a change, begin the treatment again after a two day hiatus.


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> I have done back to back treatments. This quote comes from the 'Malawi Bloat' article under the Metro treatment section:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know Iggy, I must have read that article three times at least and the answer was smacking me in the face LOL, I just never noticed that. Thanks for the wake up call! I found a LFS that carries Metro, I'll pick up another 3.5 ounces tomorrow and start treatment.

BTW I've been checking my water parameters through this whole process and they are perfect. I think the tear down of the tank and thorough vacuuming of garbage before treatment has really helped. Lets hope round two of Metro does the trick.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I've done that so many times... one of those face palm moments.

Good luck man!


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Any updates?


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## fishing12 (Dec 15, 2012)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> Any updates?


Hey Iggy, sorry have been real busy this summer. Things seem to be good finally. I did the second treatment with Metro, the whole tank and feeding Metro soaked food. My Blue Dolphin Manda made a recovery a couple of days ago. He has been eating and stopped hiding. Really happy about that! I only lost my Venustus and my Rhoadesii. Really could have been a lot worse. Thanks for you encouragement and advice and everyone else that posted here, it was really appreciated. Now the trick is to prevent any future outbreaks.


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