# Breeding practices



## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

In order to avoid hijacking another thread I'm posing the following question.
Many cichlids are easy to breed. Clean water,comfortable environment, and good food. However many cichlids can be difficult to breed and I wanted to hear from others who breed fish what additional steps they take to improve breeding success.
Case in point. I was having a difficult time getting a known breeding pair of calvus going again after purchasing from a fellow aquarist . I followed all his advice with no success over a 1 years period. Another local breeder of frontosa told me that he could get his breeding almost on command but dropping the temp of water change water by 4 or 5 degrees from the tank water. Sceptic that I am and with some fear I tried this will my calvus. Within 2 weeks I had a clutch. And was thrilled. So what other trick do breeders out there have


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I don't really know of anything that gets them going more than a water change. To them, a slightly cooler water change signifies the rainy season which is also the time that they breed most prolifically. It's one of their inherited evolutionary traits that still shows in an aquarium setting. I've heard lots of things up to and including replicating seasonal lighting cycles. Some other species breed differently and require different motivational factors but, overall, clean water with proper chemistry for breeding, good food and as stress free an environment as possible are the key to having success with breeding.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

I know the rain theory with regards to Amazon basin because the rain floods the surrounding areas which are grassy and full of other debris. They are perfect hiding and nesting spots compared to the actual river.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I have not found any particular triggers but setting the tank in favor of the one who I want to breed is helpful. When not actually running a full blown breeding setup but still willing to go with breeding, I do some breeding in a tank of mixed African cichlids. With breeding and wanting the larger open water protomelas to breed, I set the tank for ease of the big fellow. I move plants to form a barrier of sorts and leave an open space, clear of plants or décor. That is near one end so that the area is easier to move the smaller mbuna away and over the "fence" as it were. With smaller fish like mbuna types, I only work to assure there are no potential competitors of other species so that I wind up with a bunch of trash fish to cull. Yellow labs are one that I find easy to breed but also difficult to keep hybrids out as they are too docile to fend off many of the Pseudotropheus types.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

My thoughts, on water changes, are no secret. If our fish waited for a water change to spawn, there would be none.
We have very good results setting up a tank, making sure there are plenty of fish in it, feed them well and leave it alone. We use a lot of filtration in our tanks with a lot of water flow. If the number of fish in the tank is low, we find them to be on the shy side. We also make sure there are plenty of females for the fish we are trying to breed. All of our tanks run about 80 degrees. Live plants are in most of our tanks but not all. Our fish are probably fed more than most. We hate skinny looking fish with sunken bellies.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

BlueSunshine said:


> My thoughts, on water changes, are no secret. If our fish waited for a water change to spawn, there would be none.
> We have very good results setting up a tank, making sure there are plenty of fish in it, feed them well and leave it alone. We use a lot of filtration in our tanks with a lot of water flow. If the number of fish in the tank is low, we find them to be on the shy side. We also make sure there are plenty of females for the fish we are trying to breed. All of our tanks run about 80 degrees. Live plants are in most of our tanks but not all. Our fish are probably fed more than most. We hate skinny looking fish with sunken bellies.


 So your saying you dont do water changes. What size tanks. You sound like a breeding business maybe. Yes?


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

Cyphound said:


> BlueSunshine said:
> 
> 
> > My thoughts, on water changes, are no secret. If our fish waited for a water change to spawn, there would be none.
> ...


No breeding business, just an avid fish keeper. Our tanks range from 10 gal. to 150 gal.. We do 30% to 50% water changes about every four to six months. Filters are cleaned about every two months, no longer and some more often. We also have live plants in most but not all of our tanks. Our fish breed like rabbits.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

Fair enough. I'm a kind of direct person. Seems like you are too so here goes. And your nitrates stay where on the scale. How are the batch sizes. What is there longevity in relation to controlled batch done the way most of use do water care. Are they shorter lived then others methods. Not trying to be an a$$, but in short how do you know what good or harm you are doing in relation to other practices. One question you did not answer was what species you are keeping. The reason I asked and the reason for the original question was more to do with difficult species. With most malawians you can almost pee in the water and they will breed. Evolution baby. Sorry couldn't resist the Pearl Jam reference.
Hope to hear back. I find this frank discussion very enjoyable.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

I've never been one to follow...just because a lot of people say "this is the way". I do like direct so count me in.
I couldn't tell you where nitrates stay, thew my test kit away along time ago. There is nothing more funny than someone stressing over exacts. I enjoy watching our fish and let their actions tell me if something is wrong. The color of our fish and over all growth is excellent. I do not save, rescue or nurse back to health a weak/sick fish. Those go to the neighbors cats. When you say batch, I'm going to a$$-u-me you mean a batch of fry. Younger females have lower counts and smaller fry. As the female gets older/larger, the count goes up and the fry will be larger too. We have fish as old as 7 years. Our adult fish are usually larger than what most charts say they will be. We keep mbuna, peacocks, haps, syno cats, clown loaches, bristle-nose pleco's and yes.....piss would probably make them spawn. That is why I can't understand the trouble some fish keepers have with getting theirs to spawn. Their is always more than one way to skin a cat. My way is not the right or wrong, just the one i have chosen. 
What kind of fish are you having trouble with?


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

No troubles with any now. In the past it has always been tanganyikans which for the last 10 plus years is all I keep. Some of them are much harder to get breeding then malawians such as the above mentioned calvus although I had not had that problem with a previous tank of calvus that had a harem setup.
And never was able to get xenotilapia to breed. I'm just curious what others might have done that got fish spawning that previously would not. 
I disagree with you to an extent regarding testing. While I don't test often I will test nitrate ph/gh/kh 2 or three times a year on random tanks. I like to keep my tanks high in Ph and believe it is better to keep nitrates low as in around the 20ppm mark give or take. 
My fishes behavior and condition is the signs I watch the most for indications of problems. 
Too bad you don't have a test kit. I would love to know what your nitrate reading are. My guess is very high. If that is the case then it puts into question a lot of common practices and beliefs. 
Infrequent water changes like your doing are a non starter for me as well. I see the result of a water change immediately in my fish. While I do occasionally go close to 2 weeks between changes I try not to make it a habit. Wife and I went on a three week vacation a few years ago and upon return in was noticeable in my fishes. Cyps the worst.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I will add my two cents to this discussion, for what it's worth... While it is possible to go months without water changes when you have a heavily planted tank or nitrate reactors, it's not good practice to do so otherwise. Yes, fish can survive in high nitrate environments but it does have detrimental effects on health. Think bathing in a tub filled with your own filth or puppy mills that don't clean the cages... I don't think you could find a single ichthyologist that would buy off on the idea that skipping water changes for months is a responsible way to keep fish. Like I always say, if you're not willing to do the work find a new hobby.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I think if you talked to a lot of the experts in the corydoras world you would find a different opinion. Many hard to breed corydoras can actually be bred by basically ignoring them for months at a time and then begin changing water and feeding heavily rapidly to induce spawning.

This has to do with the differences between dry and rainy seasons. The stagnant pools that these fish inhabit can get pretty nasty prior to the rainy season.

But that's corydoras. Very different from many cichlids. Particularly the East African cichlids in large lakes that have very little if any seasonal variation.

For me it's always been about providing the right substrate for spawning and feeding well.

Calvus like to spawn in vertical crevices. There are some calvus spawning caves shaped like this that you can buy, but you can also just stack slate up against the wall of the tank. All you need is a few pieces with just enough space that they can squeeze in between.

Enantiopus spawn in the sand in large pits they excavate. This is difficult in the aquarium to reproduce, but having a large tank with a wide sandy area for them to spawn is the best way to try and simulate it.

Live foods such as daphnia and blackworms also tend to really help condition females into spawning.

Andy


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## eyann (Aug 21, 2017)

My very modest experience with breeding Brichardi and Tropheus Duboisi is very simple but so far rather effective for both of them:
- I do WC everyday, but a very small amount, for example, for a 55gal tank, i do 3 gal a day, each time i add the correct amount of salt / safe / baking soda to match the actual water in the tank
- the new water i put in the tank is slightly colder than the actual one (tank temperature: 79/80, new water temp: 75), it triggers the heater to start back on so the water gets back to 79/80 after an hour or so.
- the lights are mostly turned off all day long, they just have the ambient light of the room most of the time
- i feed them 2 times a day, early morning and before turning the room light off the night, very small amount but everyone got something each time
- they have the same diet everyday, i use Seachem Nutridiet for the Brichardis and Seachem Chrorella Flakes for the Tropheus
- they have A LOT of hiding places
- when i do gravel vacuum, i never ever mess up with their territory, i use a wave maker to push all of the wastes out of the hiding places and i vacuum the open spots, this kind of fish are sand diggers so they are constantly moving the sand around. The brichardi tank has the same decor for about a year, i never moved any rock. I use crushed coral mixed with play sand (about 1,5 inch)
- i avoid any kind of stress with moving a fish out, adding a fish in, doing a large WC or moving rocks around

The Brichardi spawn every 3/4 weeks, i'm gonna have to start thinking about a bigger tank BTW or start giving some from the first generation.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

Cyphound said:


> No troubles with any now. In the past it has always been tanganyikans which for the last 10 plus years is all I keep. Some of them are much harder to get breeding then malawians such as the above mentioned calvus although I had not had that problem with a previous tank of calvus that had a harem setup.
> And never was able to get xenotilapia to breed. I'm just curious what others might have done that got fish spawning that previously would not.
> I disagree with you to an extent regarding testing. While I don't test often I will test nitrate ph/gh/kh 2 or three times a year on random tanks. I like to keep my tanks high in Ph and believe it is better to keep nitrates low as in around the 20ppm mark give or take.
> My fishes behavior and condition is the signs I watch the most for indications of problems.
> ...


Sorry I could not be of more help. I will definitely keep an eye on this thread for any tips on breeding tanganyikans. The calvus is the one we have always liked. You never know.....might get a group and give it a try.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

"Calvus like to spawn in vertical crevices. There are some calvus spawning caves shaped like this that you can buy, but you can also just stack slate up against the wall of the tank. All you need is a few pieces with just enough space that they can squeeze in between."

Seen a number of those caves. A fellow hobbies gave me a few barnacles and they work great for the calvus and comps as well.


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## Cyphound (Oct 20, 2014)

BlueSunshine said:


> Cyphound said:
> 
> 
> > No troubles with any now. In the past it has always been tanganyikans which for the last 10 plus years is all I keep. Some of them are much harder to get breeding then malawians such as the above mentioned calvus although I had not had that problem with a previous tank of calvus that had a harem setup.
> ...


 No you are a help because your generating discussion beyond the same old same old. 
If you have never kept tangs you will be in for a surprise with the lack of water changes in my opinion . 
One of the reasons I keep them exclusively now is because they are so diverse and many are finicky. The original question was more about them then malawians. Maybe should have posted there but wanted to hear from as may a possible.


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