# 30G long planted low-light tank



## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Hey,

New poster here, I found this forum because I have kept an aquarium for about 7 months now, I am moving some distance so I have adopted out my fish and plan to start anew.

I want cichlids, and was pointed to the Bolivian Ram. I think they're beautiful fish, and their peaceful, animated behavior sounds like just what I'm looking for.

However I have read conflicting things about how many Bolivian Rams are appropriate to stock. I was hoping to have a pair but it seems from reading here that 5 is the optimum number?

Anyways, I hope for some answers on that. If a pair is not viable, what small cichlids (I was hoping to stay 4" and under) that show peaceful community-tank behavior are viable to keep in pairs? I also want to observe spawning from a pair.

Thanks for any help.

Edit: I should also note, my planned dither fish:

7 Rummynose Tetras
5-7 surface fish? Possibly hatchetfish or whitecloud minnows? Still haven't made my mind up there.

Also, I will be planting Java Fern, Java Moss, and Anubias Nana. I've got manzanita driftwood and am still looking for the right rocks... brown sandy substrate.


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Bolivians will do fine in pairs, but you miss out on a lot of interesting social interaction that way. I kept and bred them a while ago in a 20 gallon long and had no issues. But I am waiting for a larger tank to try them in a group.

If doing the bolivians, I would choose another tetra besides the rummynose. While I love them, they deffinately prefer and do better health wise at temps higher than what the bolivians will enjoy.


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## BillD (May 17, 2005)

There are other species you could consider. One would be the Rainbow, Herotilapia multispinosa. Others would be Laetacara species such as dorsiger or curviceps.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Just set it up and put the sand in... I at first rinsed the sand 2x and wasn't getting much clouding. So I rinsed it once and got a lot of clouding, too bad. I guess I'll just have to let it settle.



Also have the light from my 10G up there just to help with the lighting.

In tank right now:

1 rock, 1 piece driftwood (already soaked and been in other tank for a while), 2 fake plants, 1 Anubius Nana plant, 5-7 java fern plants, and some Java Moss.

Also a bunch of driftwood is soaking up at the top, it's not even soaked enough to sink yet

I kept the filter from my 10g and have it sitting in the new tank's filter right now to seed it... since I may not be actually getting the fish for a little while, how can I keep the bacteria colonies good? Will throwing food in do the trick?

To Do List: Aquascape tank
Test parameters
Stock

I've pretty much decided that the Bolivian Rams are the way to go.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

I lost my edit button, so here's an update:

The driftwood I bought is blasted and then frozen to kill any nasties, so as far as soaking them in the tank, I'm not concerned about anything but the harmless tannins. They lower the pH but I'm hoping for some acidic water anyways.

Water has sat for ~24 hours now, I'm going to let it sit the full 48 so the pH is really stable before I test.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

No edit button so here's a post...

I tested the water parameters. After letting water run for 48 hours, adding lots and lots of fish food each time:

Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
pH 7.4-7.6

60% water change...

Ammonia 0-0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
pH 7.2

So the water here is slightly basic. I'm about to go check out the closest LFS and see what sort of stock/goodies they have.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

Your tank isn't ready for fish...

It is highly suggested you "cycle" the tank before adding fish... this is to establish a healthy bacterial colony to help prevent your fish's waste from being toxic to themselves...

Letting food biodegrade in the water for a couple days is not enough to acheive this... it only added some pollutants to your water...

I suggest you read up on cycling a tank before you decide to add fish... If you look in the upper left hand corner of this page you will see a tab for "Library"... looking through the list of options in the Library you should be able to find several articles that will help you out


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Hey Toby, thanks for the tips but I know very well what a cycle is. I'm pretty perplexed though as I have a filter from a 10gal tank that was active until last week, and kept in dechlorinated water with fish food for the interim until I threw the pad into this bigger tank.

The trip to the LFS is just to ogle


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

:thumb:

Gotcha...

I personally don't like the idea of using fishfood to create ammonia... I'd rather use straight ammonia or a fish that was going to be eaten by the tank's long term residents...

But in theory using food should work too... As long as your reading and making educated decisions I won't push you to do i t'my way'... We all know there is more than one way to skin a cat / cycle a tank :thumb:


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Hey all,

Still no nitrite or nitrate. I'm losing patience with the fish food, and considering just going for ammonia (without surfactants of course). Or maybe the shrimp method.

My water is reeeaaallllly murky from all the driftwood, it looks almost black with the lights out. But I don't want to do a PWC and stall my cycle. *Question: Will the dark water stop my plants from growing as much?*

The LFS nearby has Bolivian Rams! Lately I've been considering doing just a straight South American tank, it seems like the simplest solution to my questions of fish compatibility...

So the tank I'm imagining now looks like this:

4 Bolivian Rams (2 pairs hopefully)
10 Cardinal Tetras
7 Hatchetfish

I'm worried that this will be too large of a bioload... but water changes are easy as 1-2-3 in my tank's location, and I also have two spare HOB's from 10gs I could throw on to help with the filtration.


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

What filtration are you using on the tank?

You may consider Keyhole Cichlids too for a SA tank.

...Bill


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

A Tetra Whisper 30. I was thinking of filling the two 10G Aqueon filters with ceramic.

New FTS:



I have the driftwood loosely like I want it to look (but one piece is being stubborn and hasn't waterlogged enough to sink yet). Please don't mind the tannins, or the plants I am letting float free.

Plants are anubias nana floating in the air, and java ferns sitting wherever I sat them. Java moss is floating in the net, right under the light, since all of it came dislodged from my rock and driftwood while I moved, so I collected the remainder and balled it up.

The lights I have now won't grow much of anything for this tank (maybe java moss)... But they will sustain what's living.

Here's my list of things to do/buy:

- Lights (thanks mgamer)
- More plants
- Terracotta pots for caves

I am overall pleased with the direction this tank is heading.


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## MonteSS (Dec 8, 2008)

Lokkin' good :thumb:

...Bill


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

Hey bro

I have a 30g tank that I just started stocking. I am also doing a Planted SA tank. Just bought my 4 bolivian rams and BN Pleco. The water will eventually clear up, mine wasnt murky bc I boiled the driftwood. Took FOREVER for my tank to cycle... I did fishless with old media/crab/fish food, ended up giving up and buying a Turbo start bacteria. That stuff didnt do much so just got some zebra danios and they got the job done lol. All said and done it took like 7 weeks.

After my research/chat with all the cool/knowledgable people on the forums I decided to end up with this stocking list.

Plants-all very easy no mait.
Anubus
Amazon sword
Java fern
valli
Fish
4x bolivian rams
4x cory cats
1x BN Pleco
12x Cardinal Tetra


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## star rider (Mar 20, 2006)

how's the cycle going?


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Well...

I finally got nitrates!!! 5 ppm to be exact.    !!!!!!!!!

Here's my most recent testing:

Ammonia 0.25 ppm
Nitrite 0.5 ppm
Nitrate 5 ppm
pH 7.4

I am tempted to stock soon now that my cycle is coming to a close, but I still have a lot unsettled in the tank.

Still to be done:

Buy fishing line to anchor plants/dw
Buy rocks to help establish territories (any ideas where to pick up good rocks inexpensively? Most LFS's have holey rock or rock that changes pH... I don't want that)
Buy more plants to fill out tank

As far as plants go, I will soon have a T5HO light that will expand my options. It is 2x 39w, 1 white @ 6700k and the other one blue. Will this make my setup low-medium, or medium light?

Also just a misc. update, my final piece of driftwood waterlogged almost completely and sank yesterday. But if I set it where I want it to go, it's just a tiny bit too buoyant and it slowly floats back out of position. Haha.

Edit: Just want to say thanks for the help & support! I am well on my way to having the fish tank I've always wanted!


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## M0oN (Dec 8, 2003)

Cycle is far from finishing - probably be another week. Be patient.


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

> Buy rocks to help establish territories (any ideas where to pick up good rocks inexpensively? Most LFS's


I got alot of nice river rock from my buddys parents house. They were landscaping and had some left over. You can also pick them up anywhere you see them, just boil.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Leo, I just re-read your post. You added the Rams and pleco first? My plan was to add the tetras (in 2 groups of 5), then the rams (all together), then the hatchets (one group of four, one group of three).

This is for a couple reasons.
1 Tetras first (5, wait a week, 5) because they're not territorial and will set the tone, mature the tank a little...
2 Wait a week (mature the tank)... Bolivian Rams second so that they stake out territories with the tetras already active, so no tetra/ram problems... all together so that they don't see the other rams as intruders...
3 Wait a week, and add 4 Hatchets... wait a week and add 3 hatchets. This way, they won't jump while I'm letting the others acclimate w/ lid open... Plus I have heard these fish are delicate and want the tank to be mature. Since these fish have such specific water column placement (which is different from the other fish) I am confident that putting them last will not disturb the tetras or rams.

M0oN - I know it's not quite done, but the fact that both bacteria colonies are present means that soon my tank will be :thumb: for some :fish: =D>


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

The reason I did bolivians/bn pleco first, is bc they are the most hardy of the fish i want to put in there. What tetras you going with? Im doing cardinal and from what I hear only about 1 out of 4 will live after you move them. To increase the odds I read and heard that you should add them well after the water is established.

Looks like my bolivians are 3m /1f and to my surprise they are not territorial, but im sure this will change if they breed.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

I was planning on putting cardinal tetras too but I hadn't heard that about them. However after doing a little research I see you are correct.

I dunno, maybe I'll do the bolvians first. I was just under the impression they needed a mature tank.

Edit: I'm also a little worried about the territoriality of cichlids (never kept them before). My learning was that the most territorial fish should go in last, so that it doesn't see the other fish as infringing on its own territory.

Can I please have pics of your tank Leo? I want to see how you've broken up territories. Thanks!


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

About to lip lock









Sorry about quality its from phone, I will post better ones from cammera once im fully stocked.

Going to get more plants and re-arrange to something like this.
(quick paint at work, dont laugh)


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

What algae eating you going with?

I kinda wish I would of gone with Ottos instead of my BN Pleco


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

I have a 35 gallon low tech SA set up with checkerboards and a blue rams. I'm only dosing flourish excel with WC and eye balling it. Its lit with a single 25 watt bulb with a white backing reflector. The substrate is silica sand, the rocks are granite I brought back from the cottage. I do a 20% WC once a week, and I am aware that I probably need to prune. For algae eating I went with SAEs and I tossed a couple BN fry in there as well.


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

OH very nice!

I need to use some fert like excel. Plants been in tank for 2 months and no growth. I wish it was full like yours. Do you use Co2?


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

I don't use CO2 in this set up. The only thing I add to it besides food and water is the flourish excel. This aquarium is approximately 4 months old. Here are some pictures on a month by month basis.

This is from the beginning of June/end of May.


This is from the end of June.


This is from the end of July.


This is from last week.


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

Ohh ya that stuff makes a huge difference. Hmm Im going to have to buy some this week. Do you ever have any algae?


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

No I don't really have a lot of algae growth, but I don't have that much light either.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Darkside,

Wow! That tank looks great. You may have single-handedly converted me to the ferts side  Seachem Excel Flourish, looks good, I'll keep an eye on my plants once I get my new light and see how they grow.

I like the way you've done your tank - a kind of central pile that the fish can base territory around. Since I have the 30G long, it's only 1 ft wide so that sort of set-up wouldn't work without a little tweaking for me. But I think the way I'm arranging my tank will work too.

Leo,

Thanks for posting pics and I didn't laugh  It's so cool to see the Boli's in your tank! I can't wait to have some little ram buddies swimming in my tank.

I like your proposed set-up cuz you leave a lot of area for swimming. Here's what I hope mine will look like eventually.

DW/Rocks:



Do you all think this will be enough territory for 4 Bolivian Rams? Tank footprint is ~3ft by 1ft.

I haven't thought too much about plant placement yet.

I'm not planning on having an algae eater since I've never had an algae problem except diatoms, which go away with time. I suppose if I'm having a consistent algae problem I'll look into it.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement... I can almost see my tank now!


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

GotTanked said:


> Darkside,
> 
> Wow! That tank looks great. You may have single-handedly converted me to the ferts side  Seachem Excel Flourish, looks good, I'll keep an eye on my plants once I get my new light and see how they grow.
> 
> I like the way you've done your tank - a kind of central pile that the fish can base territory around. Since I have the 30G long, it's only 1 ft wide so that sort of set-up wouldn't work without a little tweaking for me. But I think the way I'm arranging my tank will work too.


Just to let you know, I have the same footprint as you do, its just that the aquarium is a little taller. The rocks in the center of my setup are actually quite large, but its difficult to see how large they are without a profile view to match the lengthwise shot. I find that having some tall structures in the aquarium really helps give a setup a sense of unity. I think the footprint is probably large enough for 4 of them, you might want to start out with 6 of them and remove the troublemakers if some appear. Your setup will have enough light to do some medium light plants, root tabs are always a good option for when you're starting a planted setup as well.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Got my new light today! So you get a FTS...



Hopefully I'll wake up tomorrow and have a densely planted tank. Haha.

Leo, Darkside... how are your Boli's doing?


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Hey all,

Long time no updates... but I got my first paycheck from my new job and I can now spend a few more $$ on the tank.

I am now thinking of this stocking list:

2x Bolivian Rams
4x Otocinclus
10x Cardinal Tetras
7x Hatchets

I am pretty much ready to start stocking. What order should I stock them in?


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

I'd go with the hatchets first and the rams last.


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

Those lights are sweet, where did you get them? I been looking for new lights.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

I went with http://www.fishneedit.com because their fixtures are very affordable. However I heard from another customer that he got a broken bulb in his, and it took 4 replacement bulbs before he got one that worked. The website provided this free of charge though.

I am very happy with my lights.


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

How many bulbs are there? What about total wats? Im guessing they 24 inch bulb


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

They're 36" bulbs, two bulbs. I have 1 white one @ 6700k and one blue one, both are 39w so the total would be 78w if you got two white bulbs. However I wanted to stay mid-light.

And the good news is... I finally have stock in my tank!

Pictures forthcoming, but after a $70 trip to the LFS my tank is ready to roll, and I have 4 hatchets which I am acclimating now.

Thanks to all so much for the extensive help! I love my tank's new look.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

New FTS 



Also got 4 of these small camera-shy guys running around.


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

Looking good. What plants do you have in there? I Just bought some micro swords as ground cover and need better light so it gets more dense.


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

I think it looks wonderful! :thumb: :thumb:


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Good question leo.

On the very left are Corkscrew Vallisneria, and hornwort is floating at the top there. Also left of the large rock is Anubias Nana and Java Fern. To the right of the large rock is Wisteria in back, plus more Anubias Nana, and more Java Fern. In the back middle the plant with darker stems is a Hygrophila, can't figure out which kind. Another Anubias Nana and another java fern round out the tank on the very right.

I really want to re-scape though :lol: my girlfriend is not gonna be happy!

One more shot:


Also thanks for the kind words guys :thumb: This is my first tank that I'm going natural-looking, and I have worked very hard on it.


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

I would recommend re-scaping it before you fully stock the tank. Gives the plants a head start to root down. Plus your water will be very cloudy. I recently re-did things in my tank and on top of a cloudy tank, I think I injured one of my Kuli loaches.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

The hatchets have ich now... tank temp is at 86 F already, wish me luck.


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## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

Beautiful tank! :thumb: I went from all plastic to all natural back in March. Good luck with the ich cure...seems like when the new fish come in, it does too :? . And some fish seem to be magnets. I've used heat/salt method with a little ich attack for good measure successfully


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Is salt needed? I don't have aquarium safe salt and my hours just got cut at work. Will heat alone be enough to save my fish from ich?


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## Isis24 (Dec 10, 2008)

There's an article in the library about treating ich. I'm really tight on time so I can't look that up for you at the moment. I remember there being a "heat only" option for treating ich, but I think the article said that salt and heat is better.


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## TeteRouge (Feb 15, 2009)

Sorry I didn't get back quickly.Here is the article: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php It explains each method, including amount and salt types;

and here is the help I was given: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=

HTH

Good luck!


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## dwarfpike (Jan 22, 2008)

Just becareful with the salt, you might want to go light with it. With the exception of the java fern, most of the other plants might not handle the salt well. Especially at the higher temps.


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## leopartner123 (Jun 29, 2009)

I feel ya man, im in the same boat. I just got 8 cardinals on friday and only 2 made it  ... On top of that they infected my neons with ICK!!! I've been treating it with Quickcure, since my research shows its safe for Live plants. Day 2 on treatment and think im in the clear.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Thanks everybody, fortunately the temps did the trick and I have not seen an ich spot since the second day. I just today added 5 Von Rio Tetras (LFS was out of hatchets). Next Friday or Saturday, I'll pick up 3 more hatchets and 2 more VR tetras!

Pics on Monday.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Well, I've had a lot of aggression amongst the hatchets. 4 have died, all looked beat up, and I saw one hatchet being way too aggressive. Also, one VR tetra is dead, looked pretty beat up. When I observed them today they were all hiding. I dunno if the hatchets are to blame but I am going to return them and get a school of 10 VR tetras instead. So this is what my stock list is looking like now:

10 Von Rio Tetras
4 Cory Cats
2 Bolivian Rams

I am re-scaping now but taking a break to meet the GF for lunch. I'll post pics later.


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## GotTanked (Aug 1, 2009)

Re-scaped, returned all hatchets (too much trouble already). Enjoy!

FTS:



Anubias cool angle:



The new rulers of this tank (for now):


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

Looking pretty good now. I went with Corydoras pygmeaus in my 35 gallon planted set up.


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## gage (Feb 7, 2007)

Darkside said:


> Looking pretty good now. I went with Corydoras pygmeaus in my 35 gallon planted set up.


You ever see em? :lol: tiny little fish.


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## Darkside (Feb 6, 2008)

gage said:


> Darkside said:
> 
> 
> > Looking pretty good now. I went with Corydoras pygmeaus in my 35 gallon planted set up.
> ...


Yeah I can always see one or two of them, considering I have 20 in there.


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