# Still can't kick the ick!



## 5-O Cummins (Sep 4, 2008)

Out of 9 fish, only 1 , my acei, seems to have what looks like ick. White salt like spots on both sides more to the rear. I have a planted tank so i did'nt want to use the harsh chemicals that could hurt the plants. First I tried the heat method with no luck, then i tried the heat along with the salt method with no luck, and now for four days I've been using kordon's 100% organic ick-attack with no signs of relief. Besides the spots the fish is fine, eating, swimming, breathing fine. At this point I'm not sure what else to do. Help please. :-? :-?


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

planted tanks can be a real tough situation. IME. reoccurring issues might have more to do with your substrate, than the type of treatments you have tried and failed with. they are a deep burrowing parasite, capable of remaining encapsulated until conditions are 'ripe', and treatments may need to extend into weeks, and be assisted with substrate disruption, to assure an effective reduction is possible.
also, if you experience heavy infestation, it is possible for trophonts to find protected areas (eg. gill plate) where the fish can inadvertently assist/protect it from treatment exposures. this is more common with african cichlids than s.a. or c.a. types. african cichlids are often misdiagnosed with bloat, when actually, they are in latter stages of heavy parasite infestation (lethargic, sitting on floor, scales slightly pine coned). 
bottom line...you need to extend treatments. and disrupt substrate during same. HTH.


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## 5-O Cummins (Sep 4, 2008)

Ok thanks, but do you think its possible that this could be something other than ick? Does anything have a resemblance of ick? Maybe thats why the treatments arent working, I just dont know.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Are the areas salt like in appearance, or larger than that? Any cottony or fuzzy appearance to the spots? Any chance of a pic?

Ich is pretty easy to spot, but some diseases (like Columnaris) can look like ich in the early stages. However, if it were Columnaris, raising the temp would have caused it to spread like wildfire, so I don't believe that is what it is.

lloyd has given excellent advise. I would initiate the salt and heat treatment again, and squeeze in all the water change and substrate vacuumings that you can. Make sure you only replace the amount of salt applicable to the amount of water you remove and replace.


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## lloyd (Aug 24, 2005)

IME...treatment time should not be limited to equal the disappearance of 'salt flecks'.
more time in salt holds parasite progression at trophont stage, allows fish to heal and rebuild slime coat, so less likely to experience a re infestation if parasite not totally wiped out. HTH.


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## teefers (Feb 11, 2007)

Hi there. I've used both Quick Cure and Aquari-Sol, both made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, in planted aquariums with no harm done to the plants or fish. Quick Cure is a harsher med and will stain your silicone blue, plus it contains copper so if you have anything sensitive to copper (OR plan to keep anything sensitive to copper in the future) don't use it. But when used properly with heat (at least 85F), it can get the ich off your fish in 3 to 4 days.

With Aquari-Sol, it will take a little longer but its very gentle and won't dye the water or silicone.

With any ich med, you should keep dosing for 1-2 weeks AFTER all symptoms (white spots, flicking on rocks) disappear, because there may still be live parasites in the water. Personally, I only dose for 1 week after and never have reinfestation problems.

In my opinion, heat alone won't work and heat with salt won't work because of the particular life cycle of ich. It begins its life in the water, attaches to the fish, then deattaches and dies. Heat will speed up the life cycle, so if you can put the temp above 85F (slowly), you should notice the dots start to fall off in drastic numbers within a few days. Ich can only be killed when its in the water, not when its attached to your fish, so that's why heat is important. Then the meds kill it.

I've always successfully treated ich within a few days (plus one week of additional dosing for safety precautions) using only heat and meds, no salt. Salt helps, I've just never needed it.

Hope this helps. Good luck


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## 5-O Cummins (Sep 4, 2008)

I ended up doing a salt bath to see if it would help. During this I swear I saw a small white worm like thing come out of the body of the fish, what the heck was that?


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## teefers (Feb 11, 2007)

Errr.. could possibly be nematodes. Read up on the thread titled "Mbuna ravenous but losing weight" .. It's near the top of this forum category. Look for the link I posted, its got some good information about various wormy parasites.

Fish naturally have a balance of parasites in their intestines.. But I'm not sure if you should actually see these coming out during a salt bath..?! That's why I thought it would be worth mentioning nematodes and such.. Your fish might have a parasite that is lowering its immune system, making it more susceptible to the ick and also making it harder to heal.


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## 5-O Cummins (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks for the info but unfortunately the fish kicked the bucket tonight. I really dont know what happened. I've had tanks for sometime now and have never had to deal with this before. All the other fish are perfect and I hope they stay that way. I tried.


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## teefers (Feb 11, 2007)

Sorry for your loss  Good luck with the remaining fish!


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

How long did you treat with heat? What was the temp?

How long did you treat with salt and heat?

How long did you use the salt bath?

How did the fish react immediately following the salt bath?


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## 5-O Cummins (Sep 4, 2008)

For all the treatments I followed the instructions listed in the library here. Some I did longer based on what I've read from posts. I did the salt bath for less than 5 minutes and swam the whole time and seemed to be fine. I put him back in the tank and he even looked better. As the night went on things began to go down hill and thats when he died.


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## cichlidaholic (Dec 7, 2005)

Did you continue the treatment after all the ich spots were gone? Or did they never go away at all?

I always recommend treating 3-4 days AFTER seeing the last spot fall off.

If they never cleared up at all, then you may be dealing with something other than ich.

Are there spots on any of the surviving pics? If so, can you post a pic?


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## 5-O Cummins (Sep 4, 2008)

Yeah they never went away at all. I was also thinking it was something else. So far no other fish has been infected. What else is similar to ick with the white spots?


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