# Morning Massacre



## TK220 (Mar 24, 2008)

Well, I have some bad news to report. I've been posting over the last 6 weeks or so about how my tank became "un-cycled" when my wife overcleaned my tank while I was out of town for work. She replaced all the filter media and vacuumed out 80% of the water.

For the last 6 weeks, I've been doing 20% water changes every other day and adding prime in daily. Finally, on Sunday my Ammonia level reached 0, my nitrites were at .5 and my nitrates at 20. I thought I was in the clear and woke up this morning to find all my clown loaches (6 of them) dead. My cichlids were at the top of the tank gulping for air. I checked my parameters and found them to be ammonia 0.0, Nitrites 4.0, Nitrates 40.

I've pulled my cichlids out of the tank and have them in a large bucket with the fluval 4plus from my tank in the bucket with them. I'll keep an eye on my large tank and as the nitrites drop to zero I will slowly add my fish back to the tank.

I'm very upset about my loaches. One of them was 6 years old and two of the others were 4 years old. Luckily, my cichlids seem to be doing alright in their bucket and I hope to get them back into their fully "re-cycled" tank soon.

Just venting, but if anyone has any suggestions I'll certainly listen


----------



## ZachDees (Jun 28, 2008)

Im Sorry To here About Your Clown Loaches I Love Clown Loaches And Hate to see them Die
*** only Had one Die and i made the petstore get me a free new One

But that Was there Falt

But Right Know i Have 4 Clownloaches and there Healthy As Horses They Can Withstand Lots Of Cycling To a certain Point in Time

I Really Hope you Get Your Tank Back in its Correct Operation and Ill Have My Cichlid Spike Pray For Your Cichlids Wish The Best Of luck always !

Sincerely Zach


----------



## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

Sorry to hear about your clown deaths. I know how attached a person can get to those funny little guys.
Also, problems with a tank of that size and number of fish must be a major pain.  


> I've pulled my cichlids out of the tank and have them in a large bucket with the fluval 4plus from my tank in the bucket with them. I'll keep an eye on my large tank and as the nitrites drop to zero I will slowly add my fish back to the tank.


Please don't be offended, I'm curious and want to understand your thinking process here...
How does it help to have everyone in a bucket instead of the tank? 
Is it because they are not in high nitrites of the tank?
Wouldn't several large water changes lower the nitrites (and also nitrates)?
Won't there soon be a problem with the water params in the bucket, with that volume of water and fish?

Again, I am sorry about your troubles.
Best of luck,
Alicem


----------



## Nathan43 (Jul 9, 2007)

Sorry to hear about that. It can be frustrating...


----------



## TK220 (Mar 24, 2008)

I appreciate all the well wishes. My wife and I have talked about the problem and it will not happen again. No beating was needed 

My reasoning for putting them in a bucket was to just get them out of the water with high nitrites. My hope is that the large tank will finish cycling with the danios I left in there before any ammonia or nitrites develop in the bucket. I'll get them back in the tank as soon as I can. I just could not leave them gulping for air in my big tank.

I'm doing changes every other day and just cannot seem to get the nitrites down all the way.


----------



## riffraffxl (Aug 2, 2007)

Dang, that sux. Good luck with the restoration.


----------



## alicem (Jul 26, 2007)

Yeah, I can see your point about getting them some relief from the gasping.  It must have been pityful.

Let me just thow some ideas out here:
I haven't been following your initial postings about getting "un-cycled", but did anyone advise using any products like Cycle or Biospora?
I guess on a tank of that magnatude, it'd take a bunch of product and many don't believe in that stuff anyway...
You've probably heard this but:
The experts always advise do not touch the filters during this delicate period and beyond. 
Let the filters stay nasty, so the biologicals continue to multiply and get stronger.
Also, reduce feeding. _I'd consider making them fast a couple of days_.


> I'm doing changes every other day and just cannot seem to get the nitrites down all the way.


What did you do to lower the nitrites from before? Water changes and waiting it out only?
Think back to what helped...
Nitrites at 4 is toward the top end, so maybe it's about over. (fingers crossed)

Any ideas on what made this new cycle happen? Do you suppose the weakened clowns dieing sent the tank into another cycle?
I'm just trying to keep you thinking so you don't have another relapse.
Best of luck, TK220, and may the Force be with you!
Alicem


----------



## faile486 (Jul 15, 2008)

I had the same thing happen - major cleaning lead to cycle crash. I didn't really have an increase in ammonia, but I had nitrites at 5 ppm in a 20g for a couple days. I did a couple large water changes to help the fish out, and bought some Bio Spira. The tank had perfect parameters again in 2 days. I'd get some of that, and run an air stone in the bucket if you haven't already.

Stop adding prime once you add the Bio Spira, until you get good readings - I've heard prime can affect the bacteria.


----------



## remarkosmoc (Oct 19, 2005)

Man, you can't win, sorry to hear about the loaches. Was the temp normal?



faile486 said:


> Stop adding prime once you add the Bio Spira, until you get good readings - I've heard prime can affect the bacteria.


I've always thought that to be the case too. To me since prime takes out the ammonia, it is removing the food source for the bacteria you are trying to develop. However, others say that doesn't matter.


----------



## Beals (May 12, 2008)

gunner36 said:


> Man that is awful, if I lost my loaches I would be crushed. Did you hit your wife? I would give her a quick little hit, not hard just to let her know she messed up  . I am just kidding, I dont agree with wife beating, but if there was ever a time that might be it. I hope things get back on track for you, give your loaches a good send off, they are up in the big aquarium now.


seriously can not believe that you just posted that
that stuff is not funny or something to joke about.... not cool


----------



## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok while I don't condone what *gunner36 *wrote, I'm pretty sure he was just trying to 'lighten the mood' so to speak. It was a mistake on his part and I'm guessing he wishes he could take it back. Credit to *TK220 *for taking it in the manner it was presented and I'm sure his missus feels pretty bad too.

As for the problem of the tank and the losses, I feel for you TK. If I were in your position, instead of water changes every other day, I'd do water changes every day instead. Say 20%-25%. My reasoning is that more frequent and smaller ones will help speed up the cycle a bit. If these fish were in the wild, they'd be getting constant water changes, so by somewhat replicating it by the more frequent water changes, things should start improving. I would also start adding the stock back in the tank at a rate of 1 fish or a pair per week. I'd also look into a temporary water conditioner that doesn't remove ammonia like Prime does; one can always switch back. One that just takes care of the chlorine and chloramine's would be perfect (they're also cheap). But that is just a humble suggestion.

I do hope things turn around for the better for you soon and that you can get back to enjoying them. Best of luck.


----------



## Rockydog (Oct 21, 2007)

Prime does not REMOVE ammonia ------- Primeâ„¢ converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tankâ€™s biofilter. Primeâ„¢ may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Primeâ„¢ detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels.Primeâ„¢ also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat.

Hope this clarifies the purpose of Prime with respect to ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.


----------



## TK220 (Mar 24, 2008)

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. I am doing daily water changes of 20 - 25% and I still have a couple of danios and my corys in the 220 gallon. They are surviving, but my nitrites are still at about 4.0. I continue to use Prime, as the last poster stated it should not affect my cycle as it does not actually remove ammonia, just locks it up.

This morning's readings were ammonia 0.0, nitrites 4.0, nitrates 40ppm.

As for my other fish, they seem to be doing well. I've got my keyhole and pleco relaxing in a 2 gallon betta aquarium I have (It's a cycled tank that they should do well in). I've got my 10 gallon hospital tank up and running with my Severum and convict in there and then my firemouth, blood parrots and australian rainbow fish are in a large bucket (I pulled my fluval 4plus from the 220 and have it running in the bucket). It has some established bacteria in it and is providing some nice aeration for the bucket.

I'm hoping my nitrites will start going down in the next couple of days and then I'll slowly start getting my fishies back to the 220.

I'll keep everyone posted. Still bumbed about my loaches  Hopefully, everyone else makes it. My Turquoise Severum is an 8 inch 5 year old beauty. He's looking a little rough. He really beat himself up when I tried to net him and take him out of the 220.


----------



## VT4Me (Mar 23, 2008)

gunner36 said:


> Man that is awful, if I lost my loaches I would be crushed. Did you hit your wife? I would give her a quick little hit, not hard just to let her know she messed up  . I am just kidding, I dont agree with wife beating, but if there was ever a time that might be it. I hope things get back on track for you, give your loaches a good send off, they are up in the big aquarium now.


Idiot.


----------



## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

D-007 said:


> Ok while I don't condone what *gunner36 *wrote, I'm pretty sure he was just trying to 'lighten the mood' so to speak. It was a mistake on his part and I'm guessing he wishes he could take it back. Credit to *TK220 *for taking it in the manner it was presented and I'm sure his missus feels pretty bad too.


Well put. I don't think name calling adds anything to the discussion.

Sorry for your loss TK. I hope everything goes well for the rest of your fish. Sounds like your doing everything you can given the situation.


----------



## VT4Me (Mar 23, 2008)

There should be ZERO tolerance for this kind of talk; joke or no joke. It doesn't matter if it didn't offend certain people it might offend others. You don't know who might be reading this or what kind of life they live. My 'name calling' as you put it hardly measures up to the original comment. I work with someone who was beaten by their husband, I'm sure they wouldn't be so understanding.

I find it incredible that certain posts are removed in an instant because they are deemed inappropriate but something like this is still on the board.


----------



## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

I have known many people in my lifetime that were physically abused. I broke a knuckle on the the face of one of those abusers protecting his wife from him. 2 weeks later she was right back with him and in "love" all over again. I suppose that made me the "idiot". (Lets not get into a discussion of dependent behaveuor)

I "joke" with friends when they ask why my kids are so well behaved. I tell them I beat them all the time which always ellicets a laugh from my children. They know and my friends know I have never raised a hand to any of them.

Perhaps your right and the post should be removed, but calling the poster an idiot for a single momentary lapse in judgement is not.


----------



## VT4Me (Mar 23, 2008)

I respect your opinion on one level, but it was not a momentary lapse. He took time to write it, no doubt read it, and even say


> "I am just kidding, I dont agree with wife beating, but if there was ever a time that might be it."


 It was a considered statement, not something that was blurted out.

Making jokes to friends who know you and your kids is one thing in a specific context. Making a statement in a public forum about people and to people you don't really know is another.

I'm a forgiving guy, and I'm sure this person will be more thoughtful in the future. And ok, one stupid statement doesn't, per se, make you an idiot, but the statement itself was idiotic.


----------



## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Rockydog said:


> Prime does not REMOVE ammonia ------- Primeâ„¢ converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tankâ€™s biofilter. Primeâ„¢ may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Primeâ„¢ detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels.Primeâ„¢ also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat.
> 
> Hope this clarifies the purpose of Prime with respect to ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.


Thanks for the clarification Rockydog :thumb:

As for the unsavory incident, let's not dwell on anymore; especially now that the post has been removed. 8)


----------



## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry ... double posted for some reason


----------

