# 60g new Mbuna tank



## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

I had two 60s previously with SAs, A chocolate in one and a mating pair of oscars in the other but now I'm setting up an African tank. This is why I have so far. No substrate yet just the rockscape. Looking for opinions. Thanks in advance.
This is a 60g, the rocks are Colorado river rock. Using pool sand as substrate.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Looks like you're off to a really good start, congrats


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Looks good to me. Which fishes are on your planner?


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

I really haven't settled on anything yet. Would love recommendations though. Figured on yellow labs, and I'd like some synodontis catfish (cuckoos specifically). I'm guess I could probably have 12 total fish? I want a colorful mix though...but I would imagine everyone that chooses africans cichlids does. I appreciate any suggestions you can give for stocking. have a great day!


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## morrismorris (Mar 21, 2017)

Your rockscape looks great. If there is one thing I could do over in my tank, it would be adding rocks just like yours. Good luck and have fun with the rest of the setup!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

What are the dimensions of your tank?


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

48x12x24


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

just a quick question / comment...
should the rocks be all the way or almost to the top of the tank?...
like i commented in another topic / post that is my next step, to get the rocks and i was planning to get enough to almost fillet to the top... im confused now...
will also be keeping ac...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Think in terms of 3 species and 1m:4f of each for 15 fish. Not every species will work in 48x12.

It's hard to stack the rocks in a stable manner all the way to the top. 1/3 or 1/2 the height of the tank works and stability is critical.

The fish would enjoy a tank filled to the brim, but it is hard to achieve and maintain.

I also like to maintain the width of my Python between rock piles and glass for ease of maintenance.


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## JeffCo (Aug 8, 2017)

sftbl3 said:


> I really haven't settled on anything yet. Would love recommendations though. Figured on yellow labs, and I'd like some synodontis catfish (cuckoos specifically). I'm guess I could probably have 12 total fish? I want a colorful mix though...but I would imagine everyone that chooses africans cichlids does. I appreciate any suggestions you can give for stocking. have a great day!


I really enjoy my Socolofi. They can seem like jerks from time to time but overall one of my favorites for sure.


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

I had read a lot about stacking the rock to the water line but that would mean leaning the rock on the back of the tank. That just didn't seem like a good idea to me both in cleaning and pressure on the seams. I went to the middle of the tank with enough room to get my cleaner in there. 
I'm lucky because I only live about 45-60 minutes from Daytona so I can "shop" at <vendor name removed>, they have a huge variety of africans. We got our Chocolate Cichlid there and our Oscars. Looking forward to choosing fish. It's been a slow build but I am hoping to stock in October at the latest. 
Will definitely follow your stocking advice; 3 species, 1:4.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

Tank looks great!!!
Take a look at these, may find some you like.
elongatus chailosi
elongatus chewere
afra jalo reef
afra white top hara
pseudotropheus polit


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

will definitely look at those. I appreciate the recommendation!


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## tanker3 (May 18, 2015)

Most Mbunas are only Blue, Yellow and "Brownish". I would go with Mainganos=Blue, Labs=Yellow, and Rustys=Purpleish-Brown.


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm definitely looking for color. thanks for the recommendation!


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

BlueSunshine said:


> Tank looks great!!!
> Take a look at these, may find some you like.
> elongatus chailosi
> *elongatus chewere*
> ...


elongatus chewere would it be to big for a 48" 60gal tank?...


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

joselepiu said:


> BlueSunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Tank looks great!!!
> ...


 This is one of the smaller mbuna we have, I feel like it is a good match for a 48" tank.


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

I read that the males get to 3.5 inches (9cm). Does that sound about right?


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

sftbl3 said:


> I read that the males get to 3.5 inches (9cm). Does that sound about right?


Our breeder male is about 3.75".


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

You may want to look at the pseudotropheus saulosi as a possible fish for your new tank too. They stay small and have a lot of color.
Just throwing some ideas out there.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I second the saulosi. The female saulosi are more attractive than the female elongatus.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

DJRansome said:


> I second the saulosi. The female saulosi are more attractive than the female elongatus.


I as well, carry the motion to a vote lol


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

I love the color of the saulosi, both sexes. I read that they do well in groups of 6, this would be 1M:5F?


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

This is our top male saulosi, the yellow ones are females.









We keep ours in groups of 1m/4f up to 1m/8f


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Yes 1m:5f would be the ideal ratio.


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

So I'm looking at the following stock:
Saulosi: 1:5
Yellow Lab 1:3
Rusty: 1:3
Comments welcome!
Oh and cuckoo catfish...How many is ideal?


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

BlueSunshine said:


> This is our top male saulosi, the yellow ones are females.
> 
> 
> We keep ours in groups of 1m/4f up to 1m/8f


Beautiful! How large is your tank?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I like to keep a group of 5 "cuckoos" otherwise they'll be hiding the majority of the time.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

sftbl3 said:


> BlueSunshine said:
> 
> 
> > This is our top male saulosi, the yellow ones are females.
> ...


I built this tank, for the saulosi, from scratch. It is 42" long and about 45 gal. We keep 1M/8F in this one, along with a breeding group of super red bristle-nose.


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> I like to keep a group of 5 "cuckoos" otherwise they'll be hiding the majority of the time.


I made that mistake in my 55g chocolate cichlid tank, only had 1 cuckoo. Kind of surprised that the very reputable store I bought him from didn't tell me that but I didn't ask either. We never saw him unless we happened to be up late and the tank lights were off. He was beautiful.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I would do 1m:4f of each and probably not choose yellow labs as the saulosi females are yellow orange. White labs would work well.


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

the white labs would provide a nice contrast, plus they would look great with my black painted background


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I agree


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

BlueSunshineThis is one of the smaller mbuna we have said:


> I read that the males get to 3.5 inches (9cm). Does that sound about right?


i am not an expert even very far from that, i get my info mostly from this site and all the wonderful people that have help me so far,
but here is a "prtscr" of the profile:


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

sftbl3 said:


> the white labs would provide a nice contrast, plus they would look great with my black painted background


Count me in on the white labs. Good choice!!
I didn't figure you would stick with the yellow labs and saulosi, because of the yellow.


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## BlueSunshine (Jul 13, 2014)

joselepiu said:


> BlueSunshineThis is one of the smaller mbuna we have said:
> 
> 
> > I read that the males get to 3.5 inches (9cm). Does that sound about right?
> ...


Our breeder is only about 1.5 years old and will probably grow a little more, not sure he will ever be 6". Largest I've seen first hand was 4.5" and he had been around for awhile. One thing I know is, every tank and keeper is different so I guess it might be possible.

Oh.....and welcome to the non-expert group.....I'm right there with you. :lol: :lol:


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

I really appreciate everyone's input. Please keep it up. I'm far from being ready to stock, haven't even added my substrate yet, let alone water. I'm hoping to stock the beginning of October. But I am loving all the recommendations and I'm looking everything up to fully educate myself. Hopefully next weekend will be dedicated to substrate, water, and letting the cycling begin!


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I just wish that everyone was as thorough and responsible as you are.


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

caldwelldaniel26 said:


> I just wish that everyone was as thorough and responsible as you are.


this isn't an inexpensive hobby and I want it to be right. I hated when I had to rehome my SA Cichlids because they really had fish personality, they would eat from my hand if the mood struck them. I want this to be a beautiful and safe tank and I want to have my fish for their expected life span. I respect experience and want to learn from experience...thats the best way. I don't feel good using a lot of trial and error with a living thing. Thanks


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

It's refreshing to see someone joining so they don't have problems instead of the other way around lol. But I agree with you 100% there's no sense in taking unnecessary risks.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

sftbl3 said:


> I want this to be a beautiful and safe tank and I want to have my fish for their expected life span. I respect experience and want to learn from experience...thats the best way. I don't feel good using a lot of trial and error with a living thing. Thanks


i 2nd that, precisely my sentiments... :thumb:

i will also be starting a tank soon, but a little sooner than you... :thumb:


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## mbuna_territory (Jan 18, 2016)

Rock work looks great, i like it! Off to a good start!


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

Well it has taken forever, mostly because of work and hurricanes but today I put substrate in and filled my tank. As I said earlier, I went with a Marineland Magniflow 360. This is my first attempt with a canister filter, previously I used the Marineland Emperor Power Filters. This canister was easy to set up and prime and get going but I've got air in the intake somehow. Its right at the base of the plastic intake, where the tubing meets the plastic. I can hear the air in the filter and every few minutes the output side shoots small air bubbles into my tank. I have stopped and restarted a couple of times and just finished stopping it, opening it up and lubing the gaskets on the lid and on the valve block. If anyone has any experience with this, I would appreciate any advice that you could give. It is super quiet except when it shoots the bubbles out. Not going to start my cycle until I know for sure that we are in clear of TS Maria, I don't want a possible power outage to mess my cycle up so I will wait until next week to start that. Again, any help is appreciated.
These pictures didn't post the way I wanted them to. Basically they are showing how my input and output are in the tank, how my filter is set up next to my tank and how the lines go behind from the filter to the tank.


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## JeffCo (Aug 8, 2017)

Looking good!


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## thornsja19 (Feb 4, 2017)

Well I'm not sure on your model, but I use Eheim classic canister filters and they do that as well for the first half hour or so. It's extremely hard to prime them perfectly to where there's no air immediately upon startup. I just let mine run and shoot all the air out, it straightens itself out within an hour if you just let it run and don't start and stop it


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

Mine has been running continuously for almost 24 hours now and it is still spitting air.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

I have definite thoughts on the rock placement. One is that it needs to have a mix of flat and rounded to give a better mix of spots where the fish can truly get all the way in and hide. Not just wedge the front in and leave the rear out? I never want the glass and rocks to touch as it is bad for two things. The rocks shift as fish move them and they slide down to make great big scratches. Also it makes an algea trap which is a pain. 
I like the combo of yellow with blue so often use labs for yellow and mix in a few peacocks for blue. The peacocks are not too interested in the rocks except when scared, so they just leave those for the smaller mbuna. Bigger mid water folks for above with a limited number of small "rock folks" below. Given plenty of hiding, the two never bother each other. I recommend choosing first for behavior and second for appearance. This is a great article to help choose the less aggressive fish to start with:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/haps_vs_mbuna.php
Look to those rated 4-5 for aggression and leave the bad actors like Pseudotropheus and others in the 1-3 range for later when having a better handle on the subject. Not all African cichlids are bad actors but the bad guys were among the first imported and the reputation has stuck for too long. The bad guys are often the cheap fish and that is where the newer folks often start! Young fish who grow up together and males only to avoid breeding questions is often a good plan. 
I like yellow lab of any sort as they are of the peaceful group and then mix in HongI , rusty, Hap ahli (electric blue) or quite a wide range of other types. I do not overstock but give them room to live.


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

Thanks so much for your perspective. My rocks are not on the glass actually, I didn't look at the pictures closely so I don't know if it looks like it or not. I'm worried about the sizes of the haps and/or peacocks in relation to the size of my tank. 
Any ideas on the problem that I'm having with my canister filter?


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

Sometimes it just takes a bit to get all the air out. I wouldn't recommend mixing Mbuna and haps or peacocks in a tank your size. Mbuna are just on a higher level of aggression and it can have bad consequences. I have seen maybe one or two, like a single Williamsii or a yellow lab work out in a large tank with haps and peacocks but not so much the other way around. I tried an acei and a yellow lab back in the early days of my hap and peacock tank and I had to get rid of them within a few days because they killed a couple of buccochromis and the original Ngara flametail. For that reason, I cannot condone combining Mbuna with haps and peacocks.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't use that brand, and when new, and when started exactly according to directions, my canisters spit air for about 1 minute.

After 10 years of continuous running, I occasionally have to coax one to push the air through. I can pour water directly into the tubes via a cap that opens for priming. It may take a LOT of water...even a gallon. But if you keep pouring the air will be pushed out and all is quiet.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

When starting with African cichlids it is almost always better to try to match the levels of aggression when choosing the fish. Combining pseudotropheus with labs is not a good place to start in most cases. 
For the filter spitting air, it can be a toughie to spot at times but also in this case it has to be one of two things since the air is in the intake and you can see it. Someway for air to enter the intake in the tank like an airstone near it? Bubbles from moving water entering like the spraybar too close to the intake? 
If not, I move on to figuring how the air leaks in at the joint between the tubing and plastic. Little, hard to spot cracks or nicks in either? Any chance of using pipe clamps to be sure it stays on and getting them too tight so that a wrinkle is formed? Sometimes we can overwork and shoot our foot! 
If not, try adding just a light coat of Vaseline type petroleum jelly to the fitting before putting it together. Jelly is not harmful to the fish and certainly makes it easier to slide things together. I use it all the time because it makes it easy but it also can act as a filler/sealer for those tiny little leaks that we can't see. 
The advantage of the leak being on the intake is that it can only be coming downstream and that does away with lots of potential leaks along the path. If the air is where you describe the cause is in that 18-20 inch space? 
Sounds simple when I'm not the one looking for it!


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

The plastic pipe is ribbed where you have the little plastic hose clamp. The hose should be shoved a little higher, and any clamp you use should be above the ribbing. 
Personally, I've never really used these plastic clamps that come with the filter. I've put them on and figured they are not really very good and then took them right off. I use real hose clamps on all my filter connections. But putting any type of a clamp over ribbing can cause a small air leak.


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## caldwelldaniel26 (Jun 11, 2017)

I've had one filter, can't remember the brand, that the intake tube was in multiple pieces and if the top seam wasn't completely under water it would suck air, I completely forgot about that... Could that possibly be the issue?


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

Looking back at pictures, I would also say that the clamp and tube are not quite right. But then I also go for easy solutions when they work. I would not go for tearing down but I keep a small tube of clear silicone for these. A finger dab around the top is very likely to fill the hole and take no time. In this case since it is air sucking in rather than water blowing out, I might not even bother to leave the filter off more than 10-15 minutes for the silicone to set.


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## BC in SK (Aug 11, 2012)

I think before trying to use glue, it would be simpler and easier to move the clamp closer to the top of the hose, where it is supposed to be clamped and see if that does the trick. 
With the clamp off, try working the hose a little higher, but if it is too hard, you still have plenty of contact with the upper area of the pipe to place the clamp there.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

my 2 cents...

where it say ""stop"" that is where the hose needs to stop, but if you can push it a little further it is better...
where it says here that is the place where the clamp goes...


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

BC in SK said:


> I think before trying to use glue, it would be simpler and easier to move the clamp closer to the top of the hose, where it is supposed to be clamped and see if that does the trick.
> With the clamp off, try working the hose a little higher, but if it is too hard, you still have plenty of contact with the upper area of the pipe to place the clamp there.


This is correct but misleading at the same time. It is true that you should not use glue. If it is easy to fix by moving things around that works best. But if it is difficult, try using silicone----not glue!


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

Thanks for all the input. I will work on the intake line tomorrow and move things up. I emailed Mainland and the rep said that the air is from "the canister purging all the air out of the media". Now I'll admit with those plastic balls there is a lot of places for air to hide. She also said it could " last up to a week". I've let it run and it hasn't changed at all, seems like if that were the case it would progressively get better. Thanks again for all the ideas. I'll let you know if anything works.


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## joselepiu (Jul 22, 2017)

hope all works out...


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## sftbl3 (Oct 23, 2011)

Well, it seems that I got all of my filter issues worked out although I'm not sure how. Long story short, the air is gone. So I started my cycle on 10/16 and yesterday my ammonia was finally zero. My python arrived today and I started testing for nitrites and doing 30% water changes. Nitrites are off the chart high and everything looks good. I'm hoping to have fish in the tank by Turkey Day!  :fish: 8)


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