# 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well



## WaWaZat (Dec 27, 2007)

Suddenly my, approximately 4 year old, Jurupari is not feeling so well. He suddenly stopped eating and just hides and sits near the bottom. Normally when I lose a Jurupari, it is because of water conditions and they are gasping for air at the top of the tank. The water is fine and there is no sign of disease on the fish. This has been going on for almost a week now. He comes out periodically for a swim, then just goes back to hide and sits at the bottom. Right now, his head is very grey. It's just him, a 12 inch Oscar and 3 plecos in a 120 gal. Any ideas? What is the lifespan of a Jurupari in captivity? I've never had one last this long but again, all the others were victims of high nitrates.


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## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

I remember when you had issues before with these guys.

What are the parameters?
Temperature? 
Filters clean? Any heavy maint lately?
Aerated well?
Any sign of white, threadlike feces?


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## WaWaZat (Dec 27, 2007)

Iggy Newcastle said:


> I remember when you had issues before with these guys.
> 
> What are the parameters?
> Temperature?
> ...


Yes, this is the only one that survived that last incident, 3 years ago. That problem was sparked a water quality issue then. Since, we have learned how to keep water quality up consistently.

About 6 months ago, the 3 Red Head Tapajos I put in the tank 6 months earlier had all died suddenly. Water quality tested ok and my current Jurupari wasn't bothered the slightest bit. That one still remains a mystery.

Again, right now, water quality and aeration is as normal. I keep the temp at 78. I haven't seen any white feces.

Attached is a pic I just shot. You can see how grey his head is. Normally it's a gold as the rest of him. Any ideas?


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Well. For one thing, it's not a Satanoperca jurupari. That's a Geophagus steindachneri. And based on the size and lack of a nuchal hump it's probably a female.

The belly looks full and well rounded so intestinal worms are probably not the issue. It may be a little cool for them. They usually like water in the low 80's.

There really isn't any treatment I can suggest at this point but as long as your other water parameters are nominal I would just keep it under observation. Maybe offer some live foods like blackworms to see if that entices a feeding response.

Andy


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## WaWaZat (Dec 27, 2007)

Narwhal72 said:


> Well. For one thing, it's not a Satanoperca jurupari. That's a Geophagus steindachneri. And based on the size and lack of a nuchal hump it's probably a female.
> 
> The belly looks full and well rounded so intestinal worms are probably not the issue. It may be a little cool for them. They usually like water in the low 80's.
> 
> ...


Thanx for identifying her... I was never quite sure.

I turned the temp up a bit.

Here is a pic I just took. Her stomach seems swollen now. She won't eat the frozen brine shrimp. But I've seen poop hanging from her a couple times, the last few days. A couple days ago it was about 2" long. Any more thoughts?


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Not really. I would not feed this species frozen brine shrimp. I don't feed that to any of my eartheaters. Too high in protein.

I would treat with metronidazole or Prazipro in case it is a protozoan infection. But it could just be old age.

Andy


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## WaWaZat (Dec 27, 2007)

Well she passed last night. It sure did seem like old age.

I'm planning to try to get hold of a few Red Head Tapajos to help clean up after the Oscar. Would these be as good a tank mate for the Oscar as the Steindachneri?
What is the natural diet for these fish? I think I am going to try to feed everyone what they eat in the wild... live if possible... just to be sure that lack of nutrition is never an issue.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I would not put them with the Oscar. Adult Oscars are too aggressive for most Altifrons type geo's. I would go with a more Brasiliensis type. Geo. brasiliensis or G. iporangensis are both attractive and better able to stand up to an aggressive adult oscar.

Andy


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## WaWaZat (Dec 27, 2007)

My Oscar is more of a puppy than the average Oscar and was raised with Earth Eaters but the Earth Eaters I've had have always been able to hold their own, as far as aggressiveness. So the Red Heads are more peaceful than the average Geo? What is the scientific name for Red Head Tapajos. I can't seem to find it on google. This site seems to be a good one for complete fish needs & behavior. I've found the ones you've suggested but not the Red heads; http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Red Head Tapajos are still an undescribed species. Right now their name is Geophagus sp. "Red Head Tapajos"

Red Head Tapajos are smaller than other Altifrons types and fairly peaceful. Their care and feeding is pretty much the same as any other Altifrons type.

Keep in mind that your Oscar now has a defined territory in the aquarium. Adding a new fish is an intruder into that territory and will be dealt with by the Oscar. It's different if its raised with fish together from juveniles. Then the fish have the opportunity to stake out their own territory in the aquarium before they mature.


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## WaWaZat (Dec 27, 2007)

Yes, I will divide the tank for a while if I have to in order to acclimate everyone.

What do you know about the mannerisms of these?;
Geophagus pellegrini
Geophagus sp. orange head


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

Geophagus pellegrini would have the same behaviour as G. steindachneri that you previously had. They are very similiar.

Geophagus sp. Orange head is the same as Red Head Tapajos. They are most likely going to be described as the same species. Just a minor difference in coloration.


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## WaWaZat (Dec 27, 2007)

Is it true that the brasiliensis or iporangensis won't sift the sand like a steindachneri? The big reason for having a steindachneri was to clean up after the sloppy Oscar.


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

They will dig around and move sand around for fun. But they don't have the same sifting feeding behavior as an Altifrons type or Satanoperca.

Brasiliensis types are more like a Central American cichlid in their behavior.


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## WaWaZat (Dec 27, 2007)

Narwhal72 said:


> Geophagus pellegrini would have the same behaviour as G. steindachneri that you previously had. They are very similiar.


Are they also similar in aggressiveness and can hold their own against other mildly aggressive fish? The Oscar truly is a puppy but if he finds he can bully someone easily, he will. Once he finds a guy isn't an easy target, he will leave them alone. In researching other Geo options, I really like the Pellegrini and would perhaps like to put 3 in as tank mates for the Oscar.

But I think before I put anyone else in the tank, I'd like to re-evaluate my setup and be sure I'm keeping water conditions top notch. I recently discovered the the impeller shaft in my Fluval FX5 was broken. It still pumped but I'm sure not like usual. A freak thing I'm sure but I could use a little help from people with more experience than I with making sure water conditions stay top notch, and even implement some overkill/backup to help prevent the occasional issue that will hurt such sensitive fish as Geos.

Below is a video of my setup in my 110 gal. The pickup for the the FX5 is in the center and the returns on the left side, pointing up to achieve surface agitation. I've shown just how much agitation in the video. Is there something else I should be doing so conditions are pristine for sensitive Geos?


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I think the tricky part would be finding a large pellegrini. Most of the time they are only available as juveniles around 1.5-2" long. Not big enough to hold up against an adult oscar. More snack size.

Having surface agitation is fine. I put airstones in all my tanks. My largest tanks run on Aqueon canister filters and my small ones on mattenfilters. Having strong aeration is important but keeping the water warm (about 78-82) and using soft water is best. All my Geo's are in straight RO water.

Andy


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## WaWaZat (Dec 27, 2007)

Narwhal72 said:


> I think the tricky part would be finding a large pellegrini. Most of the time they are only available as juveniles around 1.5-2" long. Not big enough to hold up against an adult oscar. More snack size.


I could divide the tank while they grow. About a year ago, I put three 2" Red Head Tapajos in. He didn't eat them but he did terrorize them. One got it so bad, he lost his color, stayed in hiding and didn't eat for a few days so I divided the tank for a couple months. After they were established, I pulled the divider and everything was fine. Until about 6 months after I adopted them when all 3 went belly up for some reason! Nothing was wrong with the water... that I could measure with an API kit, that is... but I'm still scratching my head about that one. The Geo who just passed was fine during that time. This all just has me really thinking about what I'm doing wrong.



> Having surface agitation is fine. I put airstones in all my tanks. My largest tanks run on Aqueon canister filters and my small ones on mattenfilters. Having strong aeration is important but keeping the water warm (about 78-82) and using soft water is best. All my Geo's are in straight RO water.
> 
> Andy


My question about my agitation... do you think I have enough? The one thing I've never like about airstones is they remind me of tanks done with rainbow gravel & Sponge Bob decorations.  No offense, I'm sure your tanks are great aesthetically. It's just what keeps me from adding one. But do you think I'm lacking enough aeration for Geos? If so, is there another way to get it? I've been keeping the water at 80 now, but it's never gotten below 78. RO water, huh? How do you source yours? How do you measure or find out water hardness? You're in Milwaukee and I'm in the South 'burbs of Chicago, on Lake Mi water, so we're probably very similar water type/quality.

According to Seriously Fish, the Pellegrini like a lower PH and very soft water. http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/geophagus-pellegrini/ Perhaps I'm better off sticking with steindachneri or brasiliensis as their PH & hardness tolerance is more inline with the Oscar & Bristlnose I have.

I actually have 2 old Magnum 330 canisters, 2 power heads from an under gravel for an 18"x72" tank and I believe a small air pump just laying around. I don't want to do anything unnecessary but would doing something with any of this benefit my tank and fish?


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I am more of a fish breeder than displayer so aesthetics aren't that important to me. Most of my tanks are decorated with clay pots, river stones, and driftwood.

I use a 50gpd RO and keep two 50 gallon drums of RO water filled for water changes. I use a TDS meter to measure the water coming out of the RO but I really don't measure the tanks. Something I want to pay more attention to for some of the species I am looking to breed. When I was in Oak Creek I was drawing Lake Mi water which was great for just about anything. But now I am in Waukesha county taking spring fed water which is liquid rock. The RO is a necessity for the fish I keep now.

Andy


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## FireHorn123 (Apr 16, 2017)

Happened with my 6yr old JD he died shortly after


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I have a 150 gallon tank with 6 large altrifrons. I use Eheim canisters and have an Eheim air diffusor attached to the outflow of one of my canisters. It really helps. Without it my geos breathe very heavily.

https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/ac ... n/diffusor

Make sure that you order the correct product because Eheim also calls their airstone a diffusor.


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## WaWaZat (Dec 27, 2007)

Hey guys! I've put this on hold for a while, as I'm in the process of buying a new house. I will soon be moving the tank, my 11" Oscar and 3 Bristlenose Plecos. After everyone is moved and settled in, I will attempt to add some more Geos and take some of this advice here.

Another question.... you guys using treated city tap water.... or to you Geo experts - if you were using city water...... is it advisable to treat & heat the water before it is added to the tank on water changes? Right now, we just use a Python right off the sink tap and treat it with API as the tank is refilling. Could this be a problem for Geos?


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## Narwhal72 (Sep 26, 2006)

I use only RO water for my Geo's. But if you are going to use city water just adjust it at the tap so it's about the same as your tank temp. Treat the tank with dechlorinator before you start refilling and you will be fine.


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## mambee (Apr 13, 2003)

I use city water for my altifrons with my python. I treat with Seachem Safe, which is the powder form of Prime. However, the water in my area is very soft.


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## WaWaZat (Dec 27, 2007)

We always treat the tank just before refilling, in the area where the refill hose is dumping. I'm wondering if there's a chance treating on the fly might not be good enough and could hurt a sensitive fish. Trying to decide if I should go through the effort to set up a container to fill with tap, pretreat, then pump in to the tank. I've had a few Geos die for unknown reasons.


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