# Question about shimmying male and fish following it



## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

I have a male 4" sunburst/strawberry peacock in my 75g. I dropped in a couple new fish from my growout tank and all the sudden...a couple hours later....the sunburst has driven all the fish to one side of the tank including the dominant male sunshine peacock.

The sunburst was shimmying like he was trying to fertilize eggs around one of the new fish I dropped in. The fish is a 2-2.5" sulfur head hap(I am pretty sure). I thought it was a male as the anal and dorsal fins are pointed and you can see some glimpes of blue in the head. Well...he/she was following the male sunburst peacocks anal fin with his/her mouth as he was shimmying.

Question....is it possible that the sunburst peacock has mistaken the sulfur head as a female since it has not really started to color up yet? Have you ever seen a male fish follow the anal fin of another male fish shimmying like he is fertilizing eggs?

Usually when I notice the male fish shimmying as a sign off aggression the other fish does as well and I have never seen the other fish(male) follow the shimmying males anal fin.

I really need to know and I will try to get some video of it if possible because I may need to remove the sulfur head asap if you guys think it is a female. Thanks


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

I would say female. Unless hte shimmering is violently fast, in which case could be agression.


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## Brookforest_Lane (Mar 31, 2010)

Same thing happened in my 125gal when I added a couple fish. 
For me it was my male Yellow Lab that suddenly got all pumped up and began trying to take over half of the tank. 
The new *"Girlfriend"* that caught his eye....... a Rusty (Iodotropheus sprengerae) cichlid  
The Lab even spent half of the day trying to build a nesting area. Craziest thing I have ever seen in the tank!
The next day things began to settle down and within 2 days things were back to normal.
I am not yet sure if the Rusty is male or female but since the original incident no one pays her/him any unusual attention.


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## Jammos (Nov 25, 2010)

Same here. Added new fish and my normally peaceful dragons blood peacock went beserk. 3 days later and all is normal again. Gotta love cichlids


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

I went ahead and removed the suspected female(still hoping it is a male) and the sunburst peacock is now just chilling out and all the fish are swimming normally. I even added a small red shoulder from my grow out tank and everything is still calm. Looks like I am taking this fish back.

I was just wondering if any of you guys have seen a male try to mate with another male that has just not colored yet?


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Its possible, I have seen it before.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Nodalizer said:


> Its possible, I have seen it before.


This is good news. I am not going to take the fish in question back just yet. What is really strange is the 30g grow out tank where I took this fish from houses my old tank boss. The old tank boss(albino eureka red peacock) has not once showed any interest in trying to mate with this fish. The albino has spawned with ALL my other females I had before I took them back. He spawned with a red shoulder, red fin borleyi, fryeri and a red empress but has shown no interest in this fish. That is what I find strange.

Have you ever seen a male that has not colored yet follow another males anal fin while he is displaying? Usually the female does this while she is holding so the male can fertilize. I have never seen a male intentionally follow another males anal fin while he is displaying obvious fertilization attempts. After they swim in circles for a bit the male chases the other fish all around the tank. I am not sure if he is frustrated the fish has no eggs or if he realizes it is a male he is trying to spawn with.

I am frustrated. The reason I picked this fish is because his fins were different in that they were pointed on the tips and his anal fin is red with egg spots. You can actually see some good coloration in his head when he turns certain ways. It could also be hormoned which would explain the pointed fins and slight coloration.

I don't know. I am going to keep this fish in my growout tank and hopefully it starts to color and my albino will not try to mate with it which will tell me it is probably a male that was mistaken for a female. I could probably vent in another month or so.


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## Nodalizer (Nov 7, 2011)

Might have been on some growth hormones, that will make females look malish.. who knows. If he/she holds which she will soon if that is mating, then you will know for sure. Just strip quickly and let them eat the eggs. then you just have the question on wether you leave it in there or not.


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## GTZ (Apr 21, 2010)

13razorbackfan said:


> Have you ever seen a male that has not colored yet follow another males anal fin while he is displaying? Usually the female does this while she is holding so the male can fertilize. I have never seen a male intentionally follow another males anal fin while he is displaying obvious fertilization attempts. After they swim in circles for a bit the male chases the other fish all around the tank. I am not sure if he is frustrated the fish has no eggs or if he realizes it is a male he is trying to spawn with.


I see this quite often with my labs. I don't think it has anything to do with courting or breeding per se, but more along the lines of displaying dominance and submission and maintaining the hierarchy. It almost seems like the dominant fish is being submissive, the challenger then nudges around the anal fin area but from the side, then the dominant fish realizes, hey, I'm the boss, then chases the sub-dominant away. I remember the first time I saw them do this and I was like, umm, what are you doing? :wink:


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

GTZ said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > Have you ever seen a male that has not colored yet follow another males anal fin while he is displaying? Usually the female does this while she is holding so the male can fertilize. I have never seen a male intentionally follow another males anal fin while he is displaying obvious fertilization attempts. After they swim in circles for a bit the male chases the other fish all around the tank. I am not sure if he is frustrated the fish has no eggs or if he realizes it is a male he is trying to spawn with.
> ...


This makes PERFECT sense now. The only time I have personally witnessed this behavior was a holding female doing the same thing. Maybe this also explains why the shimmying sunburst (who was not the dominant fish before introducing these couple fish earlier) chased all the other fish in the tank to one side. Showing them he is now the boss. What is funny is since I removed the fish the suburst went back to being docile. Why the current tank boss is a large sunshine the sunburst and him get along just fine and they are the same size. He even chased the sunshine away during this time.

I am so glad to hear others have had this happen with males. I was afraid this was a female. I am still going to keep in my grow out tank just to be sure.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

My fish have done that a couple of times in my all male tank.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Sub-Mariner said:


> My fish have done that a couple of times in my all male tank.


That first video is exactly what was going. Only difference I saw was my dominant male would really chase the smaller fish and go after it really hard. Once the smaller fish approached a certain area of the tank then they would start the dance again. I have never seen two males do that where one was being submissive.

The smaller fish is back in my growout tank and hopefully will turn out to be a male.

PS...you don't have any rocks? I thought of doing this in my display tank as well. Maybe a few plants but no rocks. How do you like it? Easier to focus on the fish instead of the scenery. Besides....I have OCD and can never get the rocks the way I like.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

13razorbackfan said:


> PS...you don't have any rocks? I thought of doing this in my display tank as well. Maybe a few plants but no rocks. How do you like it? Easier to focus on the fish instead of the scenery. Besides....I have OCD and can never get the rocks the way I like.


I removed everything because I was adding my Blue Neon back in the tank after being in a hospital tank for a month. If Im adding 1 fish or re-introducing 1 fish back to the tank I'll do a water change, remove all of the decor, remove the fish and add the fish back and sneak the 1 fish back in. Then I'll add the decor back.

I have thought about just adding some plants and nothing else but I feel bad for the little guys. They need some spots to hide out in from time to time. :lol:


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Sub-Mariner said:


> 13razorbackfan said:
> 
> 
> > PS...you don't have any rocks? I thought of doing this in my display tank as well. Maybe a few plants but no rocks. How do you like it? Easier to focus on the fish instead of the scenery. Besides....I have OCD and can never get the rocks the way I like.
> ...


If I could find 3 large holey rocks for a reasonable price(in this area for a basketball size rock is almost $150 and I live close to texas) then I would do just as you did and add three spaced evenly apart with a few plants.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Man you should see the pieces of holey rock at my LFS.  He has a single piece that is huge, it would be the only holey rock youd need in a 4ft tank. I was tempted to buy it when I had my 90g but I switch decor too ofter so I didnt want to waste my money on it.


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## gverde (Mar 3, 2010)

"Have you ever seen a male that has not colored yet follow another males anal fin while he is displaying? Usually the female does this while she is holding so the male can fertilize. I have never seen a male intentionally follow another males anal fin while he is displaying obvious fertilization attempts. After they swim in circles for a bit the male chases the other fish all around the tank. I am not sure if he is frustrated the fish has no eggs or if he realizes it is a male he is trying to spawn with."

I had to take out my 10" Fossie because he keeps constantly harrassing and tries to mate with my 8" male Stigmatochromis spilostictus. He also chases a lot of the tank inhabitants. He is now in a 37 gallon by himself.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

I am glad it is not just my male fish.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

While we encourage our members to be active participants in the various forums, we ask that discussions be kept to aquaria related topics only. This site is dedicated to the promotion and enjoyment of keeping fish, and while we understand our members have opinions on numerous other topics, we ask that those topics not be discussed here. Thanks for your consideration in this matter.

Some posts have been edited/removed.


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## Sub-Mariner (Dec 7, 2011)

Any updates? opcorn:


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Well...I moved the small male back to my grow out tank that same night. Last night I moved my old tank boss back to my main tank. It was WW3 for about an hour. They settled down. Then I turned the lights off and my sunburst really went after my old tank boss. So I went ahead and blacked out the room and went to bed

Just turned on lamp in room...I do this for several hours before and after I turn my tank lights on...and they seem to be getting along..for now.

I am going to keep the smaller fish, who I am still hoping is a male, in my grow out tank with some other fish until I know for sure it is a male.


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## 13razorbackfan (Sep 28, 2011)

Well....it has been a month since I moved the sulfur head back to the 30g grow out tank. He has started to color nicely. I scooped him out of the grow out tank and dropped him into the display tank. The exact same behavior displayed by the sunburst peacock. Sunburst shimmying and the sulfur head following. Kind of funny to watch. Since I know the sulfur head is for sure a male now I am going to leave them be. Hopefully they will work it out.


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