# low light planted cichlid tank - cichlid newbie question



## m1ste2tea (Nov 12, 2009)

Hello all, First of all I'd like to say I have been reading this forum for a while, great wealth of information here. I have a started a new planted tank for ~20 acei cichlid babies (approx .5" to 1.25") a 4" dinosaur bichar that minds his own business, some java moss, java fern, and anubias eye plants in small clay pots. I have a decent over the tank filter and a bubbler and the water conditions seem to be holding normal. I am new to cichlids and to real aquatic plants so I have a number of questions. So here it goes...

1) I have no substrate on the floor as of yet, I had black river pebbles but took those out just in case, I want to do either tahitian moon sand or some sort of white sand for the substrate... my questions are:

*a) Would such small granules pose any problems for the cichlids since they are so small? 
b) Would a white sand help reflect light for the plants?(I heard it would only spawn algae)
c) Would any substrate harm my water condition levels?
*

2) my plants seem to be growing just fine with only 1 watt per gallon setup, I am concerned that If I put more lights in the tank, I will need a CO2 diffuser.

*a) Will CO2 infusion harm the fish?*

3) *how can I make my own vegetarian fish food?*

any advice or insight is greatly appreciated.[/img] thank you.


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## FSM (Nov 11, 2009)

no, sand is fine. Pool filter sand is cheap and clean.

How big is the tank? DIY CO2 (yeast, water, and sugar in a large bottle) works fine for smaller tanks, but with larger set ups it isn't worth the effort. If stuff is growing fine, however, there is no need to add CO2.


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## m1ste2tea (Nov 12, 2009)

thank you, the tank is 55 gallons. Pool filter sand- does it come in a white shade? I should add that one of my objectives for this tank for it to be energy efficient. I have another 55 gallon tank set up with a red eared slider and small koi so I am already using a lot of energy. my lights seem to consume more watts than anything else. My thought is that white sand will help bounce the light around.


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## gnomemagi (Jun 13, 2009)

I don't think white sand as opposed to black sand would make any difference energy-savings wise or help plant growth in any way. Flourescent tubes (most common lighting luckily) would be the most energy efficient lighting source.

As far as DIY CO2, it would probably help growth for you and is rather cheap to maintain (I want to attempt this myself). It won't harm your fish.


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## Yajna (Oct 20, 2009)

Welcome to the forum. I'll throw in my .02......

1a) Not sure what a dinosaur bichar is, but your acei will have no problem with sand.

1b) My understanding is that pretty much all sand can encourage algae because of the silicates. However, your plants are going to compete with the algae for resources which is a plus. Also, even in a low light tank you can get algae or brown diatoms so you'll have to find a balance that works for you over time. As gnomemagi said, I'm thinking that the difference in sand color won't have a substantial effect on plant growth.

1c) Substrates, just like any other type of decoration you put in your tank, have the potential to leach toxins into the water. But aside from using something full of heavy metals or toxic chemicals you should be fine. (For example, I would avoid going out and getting a bucket full of sand just downstream from a manufacturing plant, but that's just me.)

2a) Java fern, java moss and anubias can certainly be maintained without CO2 diffusion. If over time you decide that you want especially vigorous, lush growth, CO2 diffusion will not--in and of itself--harm your fish unless you really pump it up and flat out suffocate your fish--and I don't know how often that happens, but I'm sure it has. What you will want to research is the effect of CO2 diffusion on the tank pH. CO2 diffusion can effect pH which may then trigger other events harmful to your fish. However, it's nothing to be afraid of as long as you monitor the conditions of your water especially in the beginning until you learn how it all works together and equalizes in your particular tank.

A very helpful resource on the web for all things about aquarium plants is Aquatic Plant Central.


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## m1ste2tea (Nov 12, 2009)

thanks. I have 3 - 15watt aqua glo fluorescent bulbs on it right now. there are no cast shadows anywhere in the tank. I noticed that the area underneath the tank is brightly lit up by the lights from the tank, a waste of light, and that led me to think about how I can have more light efficiency by using a substrate.

I am not very knowledgeable of how light travels through water, whether it is still directional or is refracted into a floodlight effect, whether any reflectors around the tank would amplify the efficiency of the watt-per-gallon ratio. So this is whyI am torn between the black and white sand.


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## m1ste2tea (Nov 12, 2009)

to reply to gnomemagi, I am on the tipping point of adding another 15 watt bulb for the tank or buying a whole new lighting fixture altogether if the white sand will not help, and just put in black sand which i think would be more aesthetically pleasing.


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## m1ste2tea (Nov 12, 2009)

oh and Its bichir not a bichar, sorry, I'll post a picture as soon as I can


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## m1ste2tea (Nov 12, 2009)

the dinosaur bichir (Polypterus senegalus)









?









and here are the cichlids... I took the pictures maybe 3 days ago, and looking closely at them I think they may be hybrids... what do you think?


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## Yajna (Oct 20, 2009)

m1ste2tea said:


> ...and just put in black sand which i think would be more aesthetically pleasing.


You just answered your own question.


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Welcome to the Forums!!

Just my 2Â¢ here:

Regarding the CO2 - not necessary yet; especially with the plants you have currently. First step on that road would be to research about doing the DIY method and the pressurised tank method then decide which you would like to do. Right now though you are fine without it.

Regarding lighting - Using either a single strip or a double strip flourecent light unit that is 48" long would be better instead of the 3 units you currently use. Alternatively, build a DIY canopy (search the DIY section or CF's Library for directions and examples) and use the spiral compact flourescent bulbs that you can get from Walmart. Get the ones that are 6500K Daylight if you go this route. If you don't like them in the end, the bulbs can be used elsewhere around the house and you can still use flourescents in your canopy.

Regarding substrate - If you want black sand, then either Tahiti Moon Sand or 3M Color Quartz will do. Pool filter sand is more cost effective and also more natural, though it is not black. Just be sure to rinse whatever sand you get until the water runs clear.

Regarding decor - If you can, get some decent sized river rocks (about the size of your palm and bigger) and carefully stack them (I'd even go as far as siliconing them together) to provide nooks and crannies for the fish to swim in and out of; they will feel more at home and secure, resulting in more color as they grow. Lanscape companies are the next best place to getting such rocks if the aren't any available rivers nearby. Just be sure to boil the rocks and then let them cool naturally before putting them in the tank. Boiling them will sterilise the rocks and letting them cool naturally will prevent them exploding on you and causing a nasty accident.

Lastly, when you get the chance, post up a full tank shot to show the tank in it's glory :thumb:


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Welcome to the Forums!!

Just my 2Â¢ here:

Regarding the CO2 - not necessary yet; especially with the plants you have currently. First step on that road would be to research about doing the DIY method and the pressurised tank method then decide which you would like to do. Right now though you are fine without it.

Regarding lighting - Using either a single strip or a double strip fluorescent light unit that is 48" long would be better instead of the 3 units you currently use. Alternatively, build a DIY canopy (search the DIY section or CF's Library for directions and examples) and use the spiral compact fluorescent bulbs that you can get from Walmart. Get the ones that are 6500K Daylight if you go this route. If you don't like them in the end, the CFL bulbs can be used elsewhere around the house and you can still use strip fluorescents in your canopy.

Regarding substrate - If you want black sand, then either Tahiti Moon Sand or 3M Color Quartz will do. Pool filter sand is more cost effective and also more natural, though it is not black. Just be sure to rinse whatever sand you get until the water runs clear.

Regarding decor - If you can, get some decent sized river rocks (about the size of your palm and bigger) and carefully stack them (I'd even go as far as siliconing them together) to provide nooks and crannies for the fish to swim in and out of; they will feel more at home and secure, resulting in more color as they grow. Lanscape companies are the next best place to getting such rocks if there aren't any available rivers nearby. Just be sure to boil the rocks and then let them cool naturally before putting them in the tank. Boiling them will sterilise the rocks and letting them cool naturally will prevent them exploding on you and causing a nasty accident.

Lastly, when you get the chance, post up a full tank shot to show the tank in it's glory :thumb:


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## artkelli (Dec 16, 2003)

As for the fish, I don't think those are all acei. When my acei spawn the fry have the same color as your first picture but are more streamlined in shape. Did the pictured fish all come from the same spawn? If so I would say they are hybrids. My acei have never been that light in color.


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## non_compliance (Dec 4, 2008)

It's been said, but I want to reiterate the point that you do not need CO2 with the plants you have listed. Chances are those are some of the only plants you will get away with in a cichlid tank too... so I wouldnt' worry about C02 for now... If you are worried about it, Flourish makes a CO2 additive that you can dump in there with your ferts... I would recommend getting some of that and trying it out... start with 1/2 dose. They also have a comprehensive fertilizer and trace element additive that i have been using.

Flourish Excel:
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... Excel.html

Flourish Comprehensive:
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... urish.html

I have been using both of these products and a corallife 6700K T5 light strip, and my plants are doing quite well. I have java fern, anubias nana, val, hygro, crypt wendtii, and a few others... all doing decent and pushing new growth.

I do not have these plants in a african tank though... I had them in there for a few days, and they shredded most of them. The java fern is the only thing I have in the african tank.

Here's a shot of my tank... I just moved everything into this 65L... so it's a bit hap-hazard at the moment... and I"m planning on moving stuff around once it starts growing again.. but you get the idea that those liquid chemicals are plenty to grow good plants.
(crappy cell phone pic)










Whatever you do, make sure you WASH your substrate well before you put it in, or you will end up like me with CLOUDY A## water..... I used a clay type substrate, and being that I was in a hurry and don't always have much time, I just tossed it in. Well, I"ve been running 2 HOB and a cannister on it for a week now... hehe... luckily that pillow fiber is cheap, but I'm really wishing I had washed it out. Also you can see the fine silt layer on all my plants.. which is annoying and looks crappy....

P.S. The java fern and anubias do not need to be planted. They usually do best when just attached to rock or wood... with the roots hanging out. Use black rubber bands.. they work well and don't show much.

Good luck and post pics!!!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Dec 7, 2005)

I concur you don't need CO2. If you up the light SIGNIFICANTLY, then you would probably need it, but then 55 gallons is way too much for doing DIY. Try dosing Excel if you want a bit better growth and keeping the light the same. The plants you have are all epiphytes, so rather than potting them, you want the rhizomes exposed. Attach them to wood and rocks. You really have an ideal low tech setup now and I wouldn't mess with it, except to dose some trace and Excel if you want. But if your plants are doing well, I wouldn't even do that.


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## D-007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Sincere apologies for the double post earlier ... I have no idea how that even happened


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## m1ste2tea (Nov 12, 2009)

thanks for the replies everyone, excuse me for not replying back promptly. I'll try to be to the point now.

black sand would have been too much for my budget, went with white sand. local pool supply store went out of business so I went to home depot and got white play sand. Rinsed it with hot water and put down 1-1.5 inches of it on the bottom. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! so much brighter, it must contribute something to the plants.

here's a picture of the tank.









here is also a video of the tank so far. 





and here is a video of the dinosaur bichir for anyone interested...





Home depot also supplied me with slate stone which I have broken and siliconed together to form little caves and overhangs for them. I scrubbed them and let the creations cure for 3 days and now I'm just soaking them in another tank because im still smelling than silicone smell after 3 days and that can't be good for the fish.

thanks for the advice on the light canopy ideas, my current setup is restricted due to a clearance of about 3 inches between this tank and another 55 gallon tank right above it.


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