# newbie question about mbuna cichlids



## bruno19 (Jan 25, 2012)

I have a 6 foot long, approx 150 gallon tank with a 45 gallon sump. I have a few varieties of mbuna cichlids in there right now... how many fish would be recommended in this size tank to avoid too much territorial aggression? ( I do have some aggressive fish in there like afras / kenyi and auratus)


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## mgreen44 (Dec 27, 2011)

I have 12 in a 55g they get along well with minimal fighting I made sure to not get any of the same species or colors that are too close to the same I did have 2 yellow labs but had to move one to the paecock tank they did not get along. I can tell you the most aggresive mbuna I have ever had was a auratus male what a bully. I have a kanyi female and she is fine but having 2 tanks is great to be able to switch fish around I have a 40g also that I keep mellow africans in and I am going to upgrade it to a 75g. That is a nice big tank you have am jealous use caution when stocking the fighting can be very stressfull for the fish and you too good luck. Lots of rock helps too.


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## heaya (Oct 18, 2011)

list what kind you have, what sex they are (if they're old enough/if you know)
from there some of the members can give you ratios and what else you can add, if you should remove any, etc.
with the more aggressive mbuna species you generally will overstock them to downplay the aggression. another rule of thumb is to buy more than what you want, so you can remove males to obtain the right ratios.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

The best post I ever saw on keeping aggressive mbuna said you need a 72" tank and not more than three species. 1m:7f of each and lots of rock barriers to divide the territories for the 3 males.


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## bruno19 (Jan 25, 2012)

this is what I think I have: (I have a thread in the identification section to confirm a few unknowns)

6 cyno afra white tops (3M 3F or 2M 4F) - I was told there was only 1 male when I bought the first few.
3 rustys (1 M 2F, one of which has already held successfully) 10 fry in a seperate tank
4 pearl labs? (1M 3F)
3 kenyis? (2M 1F??? - only 1 is for sure a male... the other two have female colouring but I think at least one of them is a male hybrid
4 auratus (2M 2F ??? - 2 fish are still yellow, but I think only 1 is a female
1 M Jewel
2 venustus 2F?? - not sure about either, but neither is showing male face colours
1 large parrot female - I know it doesn't belong, but had her in a small 29 gallon that is no longer running, and this big one became an african tank after I had her in there

3 sun cats? not sure their scientific name but they were sold as sun cats to me.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

In my 72" tank I had five species of mbuna with 1m:4f of each and it was great.

Well one of my species was demasoni, so I had more than 1m:4f of those (as required)...but just to give you the idea of a stock that worked really well for over two years.

If your favorites are the auratus and kenyi though...shoot for 3 species and stock twice the females.

The venustus doesn't seem to fit either, or the jewel.

Which ones are your favorite? Malawi are harem breeders, if you don't have enough females they get beat up.


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## bruno19 (Jan 25, 2012)

I would like to keep the cyno afras, kenyis, pearl labs, and auratus ideally.... if I stocked enough females, do you think it could work? and what if I left the rustys with them also?

I would like to try to make what I have work, as I don't have another tank set up yet, other than my 10g fry tank.

I'm going to try to trade out the odd balls with my lfs... unless someone on here is from Toronto that I could trade with.... I'll have to post something to find out.[/quote]


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## brinkles (Jan 30, 2011)

What's your commitment level? The kenyi and auratus are difficult, they'll require you to tear down the tank on a regular basis to catch unwanted males before they kill females and other species. I really love auratus, but I'm not interested in trying to attain a sustainable colony. If you're dead set on either, you could start by purchasing about 15 of them in order to end up with enough females.

If it were my tank, I'd keep the rusties, labs, and afra, and increase the numbers a little through breeding. I'd also add acei and possibly a Metriaclima, maybe M. sp. "Membe Deep", really like those.


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## mgreen44 (Dec 27, 2011)

acie are a great choice I have a yellow and a white tail get along with everyone also have a metriaclima he is the alpha male but is not too hard on the other fish just a little chase to let them know he is the boss. The kenyi's get a bad rap but I have no problem with them my female is tougher than the male but no problem was shocked when the male turned yellow. I allways hear labs are so friendly but mine can be a trouble maker at times. I have to remove all the rocks to catch a fish and have had to take a few back to store but when you get a good balance its worth it. :fish: :fish: :fish:


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You never know what will work, and as long as you have a back up plan (spare tank to remove fish) and don't mind the work, there is nothing wrong with trying.

1m:7f auratus
1m:7f kenyi
1m:4f afra (which do you have? These may not color up well with the first two)
1m:4f Labidochromis (white, not sure which species)

Regarding the afra...white tops are not afra and afra are not white tops. Cynotilapia sp. hara is the fish most often called a white top IME. It is not an afra. Don't know how they will work with the kenyi females...they have a similar look.

Cynotilapia afra Cobue? Cynotilapia afra Jalo Reef? These are a couple of the afras. Smaller fish, and some are more timid.

Sun catfish appears to be Horabagrus brachysoma and grows to 18". I'd put them on my trade-in list and get a group of 5-6 Synodontis multipunctatus instead. Or petricola or lucipinnis are great Synodontis as well.


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## bruno19 (Jan 25, 2012)

thanks everyone! great advice. I think I will keep the kenyis for now, but I agree I probably will have to make trade them and the auratus.

I listed them as afras, but what I was told I got was the cynotilapia sp haras that you mentioned.

however, that being said, I posted a few pictures in this forum (I put the link to the thread below) and the administrator thinks it may in fact be a kingsizei! (fish #1 )

I hate big box lfs! I just wish I new what I was getting.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=240202&highlight=


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## newforestrob (Feb 1, 2010)

pm sent!


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Kingsizei (they have a new name, so not kingsizei anymore anyway) are more aggressive so they may fare better with your other stock than the afra. :thumb:


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## pom-in-nz (Mar 10, 2014)

I have a 400ltr (100g approx) with 45 Mbuna including all the most aggressive fish available. I have no problems at all. I have male and females of all the species and the only aggression i get is when they spawn which is all over in a few days. My advice is to overstock to avoid aggression but you MUST over filter the water to compensate, they produce a lot of waste. I change 40% of the water once a week


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