# Tank Size Question



## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Ok, after reading about a year's worth of threads in the Oscar forum (I'm not kidding), I have scrapped my previous plan of a dwarf Mbuna tank and have decided to get an Oscar, if you think my plan is feasible.

I have a 75 gallon tank. It's 48" x 18" x 20T. My question is this. It has a built in sump and wet/dry in the back of the tank, which takes up about 4" of the depth, basically leaving me 48" x 14"(more at the ends of the tank). Is this doable with a single Oscar?

If so, I have read here that the consensus as a decent tank mate would be Geophagus Jurapari(sp). If the Oscar works, could I toss one or two of these in with him?

Ater reading all the wonderful stories about your fish, I want to do right by this guy. If you don't think it's a good idea, tell me. I'm also not one of the people who plan on "getting a bigger tank later", lol. This will probably be it for the next year or two.

One last thing. The tank has been fully cycled with a dozen goldfish. I will be re-homing these troopers tomorrow (lost a single fish early on, but none in the last 5 weeks.) Anyways, I just did my weekly 30% water change. If I get good feedback from the more experienced keepers, I plan on doing the switch out tomorrow. Do you see a reason to do another water change in between removing the goldfish and moving in the Oscar and possible tank mates? If so, what percentage. Also, would you introduce all of them (or both of them, lol) at once, or in what order?

Thanks everyone, and I hope to be able to add to the wonderful stories I have read here.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Personally I think you'll be just fine for life. I would do it without hesitation. That being said, as always bigger is better. But if all you plan on doing is keeping a wet pet along with a pilot fish then you should be just fine. In my opinion what makes a 75 better than a 55 is the amount of water, not the ability to turn around or something... The largest oscar I've ever seen ( and I've seen a lot) was 16" including caudal fin. Most will not grow to that size and will stop between 12 and 14 inches. That and they're not torpedos or battle ships, they're flexible. With your 75 and superior filtration I wouldn't hesitate. The one thing I can tell you is to get the jurupari at the same time, let them grow up together. If ppossible try and get the geo just a touch bigger than the oscar. Not too much bigger, but just a touch. Small oscars are easily killed by other cichlids but if you choose the sizes of the fish wisely the oscar has a good chance of being submissive which is what you want.

Some will accuse me of being a know it all and to be very opinionated. I post from experience 

Good luck and keep this thread going with updates for us on what you decide 
Jonathan


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

TheFishGuy said:


> Some will accuse me of being a know it all and to be very opinionated. I post from experience


Not at all. I was hoping you would give your advice. But now I am a touch confused. I was not at all familiar with the jurupari until reading about them in this forum. Anyways, I went out searching today to see what I could find locally. LFS had some fish labeled Geo. jurupari. Upon further research, I see what I really want are Satanoperca Jurupari? Are these the same fish? Excuse my ignorance on this, I just want to make sure I have compatible fish.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Put it to you this way... they used to be geophagus until a scientist wanted to publish another book so they changed the name. Satanoperca is just a subfamily... or split off for some reason?? But they will work fine too LOL


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

LOL, thanks Jonathon. So you think just a single geo with the O? Or a pair?

Now, don't you have a tank to build??


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Yeah, tell me about it... I haven't done anything on it all weekend. Though I did get more material to waterproof the room and I did get a new water heater for the house! I can't wait to get it installed then test it doing water changes next sunday! Today was a wash because of water changes, yesterday was a wash because I had a board meeting and got up super late from being out the night before, and the sun was in my eyes and my shoes were untied.... I'll get back at it tomorrow, I promiss :lol:


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

I hate "bored" meetings, lol. One last thing. Do you think a single geo? Or a pair?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Well ,these board meetings are actually a pleasure to go to. I'm on the board for the Ohio Cichlid Association. The meetings are held at board members houses so it's an opportunity to check out other peoples fish rooms :thumb:

I'd go with one. They sometimes don't get along with each other when grown..


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks for your advice.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Ok, another question. I have been reading up on the jurupari's, and I read a lot where it says they like to sift through the sand for food/etc. Because I was originally going to go with Malawi, I have a combination of crushed coral (65%) and aragonite (35%) as substrate. Do you think this will be a problem for either fish?

Also, since I am not overly familiar with the juru, I am going to go to LFS tomorrow at lunch and take a pic and post it here to make sure it's a proper ID.

Lastly, if the juru is not a good option for a tank mate, what other suggestions do you all have? While I know tank maintenance would be heavier with no clean up fish, I love the look of JD's and Green Terrors, just not sure on compatabilty and tank space. Thanks!


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Anyone?


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

look in the oscar 101 comments  ya


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## Bignick (Dec 20, 2008)

My Oscar is not very aggressive, but he decapitated my GT. There was a large size difference, but the GT would just not leave him alone.

In a 75, I think most people would say you could do a O, a JD, and maybe an Oto for a clean up fish. Just from my experience I would not do a GT.

Just a thought, I know a lot of people do a Salvini with an O and it usually works out.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks Bignick. I've decided on the O and a JD for sure. What is an oto? The only thing I can find on them says they are relatively small when adults. I would worry about him getting eaten.

Also, I am going to be picking these up tonight. Should I try and get the O and JD as close to the same size as possible, or should one be a little larger than the other?


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

Get them ariund the same size they will be fine just have some hiding places for that JD :wink:


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Well we just put them in the tank. I can't tell you how small a 2" tiger oscar and a 2" JD look in a 75, but it's pretty **** funny. The oscar promptly dropped to the bottom of the tank and is alternately swimming about four inches from his claimed corner and laying on his side. The JD has claimed a nook in the two pieces of driftwood I have in the tank. Thanks for all the advice, but I have one more question, lol.

I bought some Hikari Cichlid Gold mini sinking pellets. How long would you wait to feed them? (I am for sure going to wait until at least tomorrow morning). These are the mini pellets. On on the first feeding, how much? Maybe 10-12 pellets?

Again, thanks for all the advice. I'll post a pic once they get a little more comfy in their surroundings.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Ok, my finally fed them this afternoon with the sinking pellets. It seems that they were hungry, because they basically "gummed" them to death and then spit them out, not really eating any. It's like they want to eat but couldn't. So I told her to feed them tropical flake food that we have for another tank. She said they ate it, but did not seem to happy about it.

I stopped at the closest place on the way home on bought some brine shrimp flake made by Aquatrol. Has anyone used this? I have two questions:

1. I bought the smallest sinking pellet they had. Could it be to hard for them to eat? Should I soak it for a few minutes before feeding them?

2. Should I switch to a cichlid flake in the mean time until they are larger? (I bought the brine flake as a stop gap for tonight.)

Thanks for any advice.

ETA: The brine shrimp flake was a swing and a miss. They would eat it and spit it right back out. What do you feed them when they are this small, lol.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

They will eat the pellets. I know it looks like they're spitting it all out, but they're not


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks. They seem to be doing a little better. I went this morning and purchased the floating Cichlid Gold and the Cichlid Complete and mixed them together. This will be their main staple diet. Also got some frozen bloodworm for a treat, but won't introduce that until I am satisfied they are eating the pellets. I think the Oscar was not into the sinking pellets, cuz when I dropped some flake in there he went nuts. He seems to like to strike his food from the bottom.

Now I just need to figure out a way to feed them without the floating pellets all ending up in the overflow, lol. Any ideas?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

You can cut the top off a styrofoam cup making a floating ring, then put the food in that


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

LMAO! And here I was trying to figure out a way to make a "basket" out of a fish net to put in my overflow. Genius! Thanks again!


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

It's a temporary fix though, as your fish get bigger you might have to switch them to strictly sinking food. This was the whole reason I took my overflows out of my 240 (voiding the warranty) :lol:


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone, especially Jonathon. Wanted to introduce you to the boys. Here is Melvyn:










Here is Midas:










Here they are together:










And here is where they live:










We did our first water change and really changed up the layout today. Man the JD went from almost toally white to just a beautiful fish. The O was curious as all get out and several time went after the gravel vac, lol.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Excellent! I think you've still got room for a Geophagus/satanoperca in there.  I'd get one if it were me, then leave it alone after that 

I just showed my wife little Melvyn... She approves :lol: "Awe, how cute"

All of ours are huge... :lol:


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

I looked for a jurupari all over, but the one place that had one had already sold him. Reading back aways, I saw where you had said raphael cats would be a good option. Do you still feel this way? I only ask because I was reading threads from over a year ago, and these are readily available.

Also, had some aggression issue tonight. Seems the JD wants to claim the driftwood on the left of the tank as his own, and they were defintiely going at each other. Any suggestions?

Finally. I know you said the O was eating the pellets, even if I didn't think he was, but darn it doesn't seem like it. I tried the styrofoam cup idea, but basically he would grab one and then spit it out outside the cup. We started getting worried he wasn't eating, so I held a flake of food inside the tank, and he went bonkers. My wife and I just spent ten minutes feeding him. Again, any ideas?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

More than likely he's used to flakes from being fed that at the store. My suggestion would be to mix some flakes with some pellet food so the pellets smell like the flakes.

Also keep in mind they can go for quite some time without food. If pellets are his only option he'll get used to them. He'll have to because when he gets bigger feeding flakes is not practical.

As for the aggression, it's to be expected. They will establish territory (and hopefully not damage each other) at an early age... In every cichlid tank there's got to be some kind of pecking order, but keep in mind that a jd the same size as an oscar is a little older. Oscars grow much faster...

If it were me I'd feed sinking pellets, they'll get used to it. They won't starve themselves at this young of an age. This solves your overflow problem...

It only took these adults a week or so to figure out that the food sunk and they'd need to get their share soon or not get any at all!









Yours young ones will or should learn faster...

Be patient, don't worry. They'll adjust


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks again Jonathon. My wife thinks I'm insane because I now have 4 different pellet foods. All Hikari, but sinking, floating, different sizes. I'll stick to the sinking ones (a combination of the Staple and Cichlid Gold) for now per your expertise. The JD has no issues grabbing it before it even hits the tank bottom. How long would you let it sit there before netting it out?

Also, as I said in a previous post, I'm having issues finding the jurupari. I'm waiting on a call back from a LFS that might order one for me. But I had noticed in an earlier post you suggested a raphael cat. I think this are more readily available. Do you still think it would be a nice tankmate? Ad how large should I get it? Or keep my fingers crossed for the juru?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I feel you could get both the catfish and the jurupari. The catfish you'll never see, but they are great cleaners. Make sure it's not so small that it'll fit in oscars mouth.... 

I would say let the food sit for 30 minutes before netting out. That will give oscar ample time to get used to eating sinking food and soon he'll give that jack a run for his money as to who gets the food first! :lol:

Keep us posted!


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Eating his food with an explosion of bits coming out of his gills: :thumb:

Attacking the gravel when changing the water: :thumb:

Poop a size no fish that small should be able to produce: :thumb:

Eating out of your hand: :thumb:

Looks like we got us an Oscar. :thumb:


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

:lol:

Well said!


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

TFG-
I am seeing more and more aggression between the two, with the JD initiating all of it while the O really doesn't fight back. The O even has some fin nippage on his tail. Jaw locking, and the JD is continually "bumping and pushing" the O. Is this normal? Or do I have an incompatible pair?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Do You have another tank? If not a bucked with an airstone would suffice. The jd needs a time out. The oscar should have been put in the tank first for a couple weeks, then the jd added. The oscar needs to have a chance to establish terrirtory. An oscar and jd of the same size when young are vastly different on the level of maturity. Oscars grow faster so while the oscar might be 3 months old the jd is probably 5-6 months old... That's quite the difference when it comes to juvi cichlids.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Unfortunately all I have right now besides the 75 is a 10g with a few zebra danios in it. Do you think I should bring it back (the JD) to the LFS and try again in a few weeks? Or get a much smaller JD? (But not too small, lol.)


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I think taking it back would probably be the best option if he's beating on the oscar...


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Well just talked to my wife, she says they have been fine all day _except_ when we feed them.  That seems to be when there is the most aggression. We are going to try and feed at both ends of the tank to see if that helps. If not, we will bring the Jack back tomorrow.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Feeding at both ends helps, but usually doesn't always solve the issue. Without seeing exactly what's going on it's hard to tell you exactly what to do. Depending on the size of both, what exactly the jd is doing to the oscar and so on and so fourth.. it's just hard to say.... Keep trying though


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

I'll get a video of it tonight and post a link for you to take a look at. We had planned on doing that. Thanks again for the great advice. If we have to take the JD back we definitely will.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Well, no video necessary. He got part of the Oscar's top fin as well. The thread my wife started:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=187343

While we hated to see him go, Melvyn was just getting beat up and was totally stressed. Jonathon, if you look at the linked thread, based on your exprience, let me know what you think of his injuries and a course of action.

He will remain alone in the tank for at least a month or two. Unless I can find the elusive jurupari, lol.


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Just keep the water good and clean. He'll be fine  Don't worry


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## StillaZilla (Aug 22, 2008)

The oto will taste real good.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Ok, so Melvyn has had the tank to himself for nearly a month now, so we are thinking about adding some tank mates. Since I have had no luck locating a jurupari (LFS had fish labelled as such, and while I don't know what they were, they definitely were not jurupari) and we don't want to attempt another JD, we have decided to go with silver dollars. My questions are this.

75 gallon tank, 48 x 18 x 20. Lose 4 inches off the 18 for the sump and wet dry (built in), 30% water changes every three days. (Wife wondered what the red X's were on the calendar).

How many should I go with? I'm thinking 3 or 5?

What is the best way to insure they get enough food? I know they are mainly (not exclusively) herbivores, but I could throw a cotton ball in there at feeding time and I'm pretty sure Mel would eat it.

Thanks for any replies.


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

go for 6 they like to be in shoals and dont worry if they are skittish when you first add them it is normal have fun with them


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Won't 6 be too many in a 75 once they are full grown?


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## jack lover (Aug 12, 2008)

5 or 6 will do fine


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

I'm not arguing with you jack lover, just want to make sure all the fish are happy. I'm just thinking that when full grown, I will have a 12-14" Oscar and half a dozen 5" to 6" silver dollars in a 75 gallon tank. I know the SD's are thin, and won't have nearly the bio-load as the single Oscar, but do you think in a tank this size it's ok with that many?


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## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

I think it will be just fine. If anything the dollars will help to consume the uneaten food of the oscar...


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## 2wheelsx2 (Dec 7, 2005)

I have 4 large SD's (6" and > in a 125) in which I have a 6" oscar and other SA cichlids. I find they are jumpy and make my cichlids skittish. If I had to do over again, I would not get SD's again as dithers.


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

I didn't really get them as dithers but more as tank fillers. The Oscar is the only other occupant besides them. But I know what you mean about them being skittish.


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

Hey Morpheus, how goes the tank these days?
I read through your experiences with Melvyn and that JD you ended up parting with. Too bad it didn't work out, but it sounds like you've made the right decision for your oscar. Plus, I know how it must give you peace of mind in knowing that little Melvyn won't be getting beat-up on by any other fish in there.

So you've added a group of silver dollars?
How many? Are they all still in there? How is everything going with them? Everyone managing to gorge themselves during feeding time?

I'm looking forward to more updates/pics.
Melvyn is a cute little fella, by the way. 8) 
BV


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Hey BV. Everyone is doing great. Yep, it's just Melvyn and a group of 5 SD's. Finally got the smallest SD to take pellets, so no more flake for me! (At least for this tank) As I stated in your thread, right now we are just trying to figure out an acceptable aquascape. Driftwood was removed because Melvyn kept scratching himself on it. So I bought some fake plants, but as I said I apprarently planted them wrong. Seems Mel likes the planted sideways look, :lol: . Any ideas ? If it were just the O, I wouldn't be so worried about it, but I would like to have some kind of cover for the SD's. I'll take some updated pics tonight.


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

Cool, thanks for the update.
Maybe if you could somehow rig them up to a suction cup attached to the bottom of the tank (just cover it up at the base with the substrate/rocks/driftwood)?
BV


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## Morpheus (Nov 12, 2008)

Just wanted to share a few pics as Melvyn is 6 months old. He is about 5 1/2" long. First one is without flash, second one is with flash.



















And this is when we got him in January, about 3 months ago:


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## Big Vine (Feb 26, 2007)

Melvyn is looking great---awesome update! :thumb: 
BV


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