# unsorting - assorted peacocks



## dgarnier (Dec 11, 2007)

A few weeks back I have a tank issue and had to move some Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ngara) quick. They ended up in a tank with some Aulonocara sp. "Lwanda". the males were easy to split bakc up but the females are not so easy. Is it even possible to split them back up, or do I ned up selling them off as assorted peacocks?


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

I'll be watching this thread - as I've had this same problem. However, the one thing that really helped me out was size. Otherwise, I couldn't see a lot of difference between the two. I hope you get some good answers! :thumb:


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

I don't think that Lwanda and Ngara are impossible to tell apart. Lwanda have a little different face and Lwanda are a bit more silvery. Not much difference but you should be able to pick some females. Depends on how much confidence you have.

If you saw a tank full of uncolored up Lwanda and another tank full of uncolored up Ngara, don't you think you would be able to tell they were different?


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## dgarnier (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok there might be some hope....I will get some pics tonight and post them up

If some one is looking for assorted female or juive males peacocks pm me, I have 15 or so


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## fishboy11 (Jul 13, 2005)

Look at the tails of each fish closely. You should be able to tell. Ngaras, males and females, have the "flames" in the tail, lwandas do not. This should help in separating them.


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

One way would be to hormone the females to see how they color up. No idea if this will be harmful to them or affect their fertility, but there are claims that it will have a negative impact. The other is the split them up as best you can based on dorsal and caudal fin patterns/color.

If you do the latter, you would have to spawn the females with their "mate" and then grow out the fry. You are looking for males to color up and look like their father, and not like a mix of the two. This could take a year or more. Anything female that does not throw males that match the father are likely in the wrong tank. This is by no means fool proof.

Aside from not putting them together to begin with, I would get new females and use these females to spawn Syno. multies.

Selling them off as "assorted peacocks" really isn't very responsible IMHO.


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## copasetic (Nov 26, 2007)

I have both types and can help with pics if needed.. I find lwanda females to be a very round overall shape to the body.. Flametail females are dark and have vertical bars that are thick.


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## copasetic (Nov 26, 2007)

How did u ever make out???


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## dgarnier (Dec 11, 2007)

I have been tring to get pics, but they are coming out blury - off to try agian


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

Yeah copasetic is the man to talk to.
Both species of fish have different body shapes. Iv never kept a Lwanda but i can help you out with the flametail. 
You could always seperate the males and breed them. If they come out crossed just swap them out to the right tank. That means time, space and, if you are responsible.....killing :?


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

I've talked to a couple of long-time peacock keepers, and they claimed that even the people with years of experience can't tell the difference between the females (without hormoning, or breeding and raising up the fry to adults).


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## Gibbs (Apr 21, 2008)

why_spyder said:


> I've talked to a couple of long-time peacock keepers, and they claimed that even the people with years of experience can't tell the difference between the females (without hormoning, or breeding and raising up the fry to adults).


That is a safe call, but some peacocks do have different shapes and sizes., even patterns and colourations. It is possible to tell as long as you know the species you are keeping.
The Lwanda will be rounder then the more slender Ngara....In most cases :wink:


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## Dave (Feb 9, 2003)

The problem is that with even a little variability it is easy for someone to mistake one female for another. You can make all the claims about phenotypes that you have observed, but short of hormones Why_Spyder is correct. Even the experts cannot tell. Id's based on the above observations are speculative at best.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

This is why I'm going to replace the Lwanda females that I have with known females - and end up culling these females most likely.

Otherwise I'll keep these females for the males to show for - and just not spawn them (or keep the fry should they spawn).


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## copasetic (Nov 26, 2007)

if it was my chiwindi peacocks with my lwandas id be lost.. but there is a clear difference in my flametail peacock females.. Very dark with wide strip's.. If your females arent dark and show the same color shade as the lwanda's then ya we are outta luck on a positive ID.. Try a darker substrate to see them really darken up.. Not that i keep any of these types together.. There is perfect pic of lwanda female in my ad konings book looks just as i describe.. Light shade, Rounded overall body shape(finage incl.)...


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

Dave said:


> The problem is that with even a little variability it is easy for someone to mistake one female for another.


*Copasetic* - this is what you have to watch out for though. Every species has some variability within it. Your females may look slightly different than the next person's which would be enough to make an incredible mess of confusion for the next guy/gal.

It's a risk that isn't worth taking in the end - not when it could endanger the integrity of the hobby.


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## copasetic (Nov 26, 2007)

why_spyder said:


> Dave said:
> 
> 
> > The problem is that with even a little variability it is easy for someone to mistake one female for another.
> ...


Exactly why i spent a lot of $ on a wild caught colony of flametails. 
But we are talking about a stuartgranti type and a "sp" type.. Ad konings uses female difference's to differentiate species and variants, which then gets accepted by science. 
Dgarnier do all these females have all same color shade? what about bar thickness?
What i would do is let the females grow and keep removing the largest dominant female.. You should be able to see the differences in large females that are near top of a tank dominance chain.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

copasetic said:


> But we are talking about a stuartgranti type and a "sp" type.. Ad konings uses female difference's to differentiate species and variants, which then gets accepted by science.


The "sp." designation means it hasn't been officially described yet - which means it could be assigned to the stuartgranti group in the future. :wink:


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## copasetic (Nov 26, 2007)

Lwanda's come from Hai reef/chiwinidi area.. The blue neon stuartgranti's region.. So i dont think that "SP" will make it into the same class.


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

Now I'm no expert (I do more work on _Cynotilapia_ than _Aulonocara_) on peacocks - nor classify cichlids. I'm just trying to say that it is too risky to assume females are of one type over another - when it would be much easier to *A)*not mix them (not always possible) or *B)*if you have to mix them, sort out the males and cull the rest (not a fun option, but the right option).


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## noki (Jun 13, 2003)

Still don't think it is impossible to at least make educated guesses. It is not like trying to pick between a Ngara female and a Maulana female, or a Maleri female and a Sunshine female. Lwanda are clearly not part of the Stuartgranti complex, and seem to have a slightly different head, mouth, and shape of body. Maybe not easy, but you make it sound completely impossible to even try to guess. Of course, you would want to be sure.

When in a tank, don't you notice the difference between individual fish. Don't you thinkthat there is female A and female B and female C, and recognize them when you watch a tank?


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## why_spyder (Mar 2, 2006)

noki said:


> Still don't think it is impossible to at least make educated guesses.


But its just that - a guess. I, too, think I can identify the different ones - but it will still be a guess in the end.

I do recognize certain fish when they are in the tank - based on certain characteristics, behavior and what not. But mixing similar looking fish is asking for trouble - not just referring to peacocks.


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## copasetic (Nov 26, 2007)

I totally agree that female peacocks should never be mixed.. i do think this a mix that can be sorted out tho, will take time and tank space up tho.. Dgarnier we need to get some pics of yours up to see if there are any clear keys to help with ID.. Like i said earlier maybe darken the substrate and watch the flametails go dark with it... Have a look at flametail profile and the only pic of a uncolored male clearly shows my description, dark body with wide vertical bars. And the only female is dark as night.. There is no female lwandas pics in the profile tho!


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