# All Female or All Male tank?



## Terrian (May 23, 2015)

Hello. I have hard water (15dGH, KH 7, pH 8.0) and a 60g mature tank. I would like to stock it with non-agressive, dwarf African cichlids, but do not want breeding. I am an experienced fishkeeper but have never had Rift fish, though I have read extensively about them for the past few weeks, what that's worth.

So minus the "3 females for every male" rule (since I again do not want breeding), I have read getting a single fish from various dwarf species that are not colored similarly should be fine. The Yellow Lab (aka Electric Yellow) of Malawi is fine as a single from what I have read, but do you have suggestions for other dwarf species that would do well as a single?

I am especially eager to hear from anyone who has a cichlid tank that is set up for no breeding. Thanks much!


----------



## Ten Tonne Tomahawk (Apr 24, 2015)

Hi, I have a 8x2x2 foot all male, breeding free display tank. (170+/- Gal)??? I do liters, man!!! 900 liters.
60G doesn't tell us much. It's a capacity based measurement, but without dimensions, we're restricted in help we can give.
Also, I don't think Electric Yellow are considered Dwarf cichlids. You'll find them often referred to as Mbuna, which is a native African word for Rock Fish. Mbuna are smaller than most, but larger than what is considered dwarf. (I guess it may be a geographical locale thing. Folks around the world have differing terms for things)
If you simply mean that you want non-aggressive smaller African all male display tank, let us know and the advice will fly.
Also, males only. Girls, for the larger part are boring and drab, by design.


----------



## Terrian (May 23, 2015)

Thanks Tomahawk. Tank is standard show. 4' long, 15" wide, 18" high. My main concern is least amount of aggression even over coloring. Hence not against all females. And do not want to use the overstocking method to curb aggression (or maybe that's only used for mixed sexes). I would rather understock, have a place for everyone who needs one (I know some are cave dwellers and require their own territory, others like the Yellow Lab are not territorial).... and up to 4" including tail is something I'd consider in the pool of candidates, though smaller is better. I am aware of the shellies of Tanganyika but am not sure they can be sexed as juveniles... someone know? Thanks again.


----------



## Terrian (May 23, 2015)

PS You have a 240g - a beautiful tank. I used to own one myself. Can you tell me if you had to play with the stock (returning aggressive or maybe bullied fish, etc) and if you also chose species that look dissimilar? I imagine with that size tank you were not quite as concerned with size and did not stick to smaller cichlids.


----------



## Ten Tonne Tomahawk (Apr 24, 2015)

Terrian said:


> PS You have a 240g - a beautiful tank. I used to own one myself. Can you tell me if you had to play with the stock (returning aggressive or maybe bullied fish, etc) and if you also chose species that look dissimilar? I imagine with that size tank you were not quite as concerned with size and did not stick to smaller cichlids.


I did base my choices on making sure they looked dis-similar. I was also restricted by what I could afford and source.
With the size of the tank magnifying, so to can the issues. You choose bigger fish, who, by and large, tend to be aggressive. Large also includes many predators. (I happen to love predators, hence the large tank.) 
2 things happened to me. Firstly I had a massive white spot break out, which claimed lives. I added formalin, it didn't seem to impact the white spot so I wondered what I had done wrong, since I had enjoyed better success in the past. I thought about Bio balls, which I had used for the first time and inquired at the LFS where they came from if they happened to be made from carbon. I was told they were. I removed them, and believing they were carbon and had removed the medication, I re-dosed the tank. (They weren't carbon, they were plastic) I lost a lot.
I re-home aggressive fish when I get a chance, but sometimes, I simply find a body. No previous signs of aggression. You can plan, but life won't read your script. You can hedge your bets, but still, life will happen.


----------



## Ten Tonne Tomahawk (Apr 24, 2015)

Terrian said:


> Thanks Tomahawk. Tank is standard show. 4' long, 15" wide, 18" high. My main concern is least amount of aggression even over coloring. Hence not against all females. And do not want to use the overstocking method to curb aggression (or maybe that's only used for mixed sexes). I would rather under stock, have a place for everyone who needs one (I know some are cave dwellers and require their own territory, others like the Yellow Lab are not territorial).... and up to 4" including tail is something I'd consider in the pool of candidates, though smaller is better. I am aware of the shellies of Tanganyika but am not sure they can be sexed as juveniles... someone know? Thanks again.


This is a good idea, sparse populating will almost always work, as long as your species are compatible. Leave the girls at the shop. 1. they will lead to breeding, that you do not want. 2. they lead to fighting, that you do not want.

The issue with the smaller fish is that if you leave Tanganyika and go to Malawi, most of the smaller fish are Mbuna and Mbuna tend to be aggressive. Unfortunately, they also tend to be bright and vibrant.
I'd seriously consider going Tang. a nice mellow Lamprologe display would fill your requirements. The shape and colour is quite diverse. There are species to absolutely avoid and I'm sure there are many more suited to explaining what and why around here, so I'll leave it to others for the minefield.
Some I'd look into are, Neolamprologus Cylindricus, Caudopunctatus, Leliupi, Birchardi, Altolamprologus Calvus, Compressiceps, 
Also explore the Julidochromis family, Regani, Dickfedi, Transcriptus, Ornatus, Marlieri.
Try Variablochromis Moori, it comes in 2 colours.
Maybe go with an Aulonocranus? 
Perhaps even an Ophthalmotilapia Ventralis, or Cyathopharynx furcifer or another feather fin.
Cyprichromis or paracyprichomis are also worth a look.
My names are dated, I must admit, I'm better at naming Malawi cichlids by recall. I havn't had a lot of Tangs.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

You will not see natural behavior in a tank filled with one-of-each. Is the reason for the no breeding rule to avoid aggression?

I've had all-male tanks but I find mixed gender tanks are more peaceful, both for me and the fish.

You could do an all-female yellow lab species tank.


----------



## Terrian (May 23, 2015)

@Tomahawk: Sorry to hear of your experience with the ich/bio balls/meds catastrophe. And thanks for the suggestions as to Tangs... will look into them. As for Mbuna there are some non-aggressive species, like the Yellow Lab and a few others. I guess there are a few exceptions in every genus. 

@ DJ The reason I don't want breeding is b/c I want a stable population, don't have time to care for fry or raise them to sell them, and don't find it humane to breed fish in a closed environment with the intention or plan being, 'just let them be eaten, they make good fish food.' In the wild they would have a chance, in a tank it's not nature taking it's course, but a lack of opportunity to have a chance to survive. That's not a condition/atmosphere I want to create in my tank.

An all female Yellow Lab tank is certainly a possibility I am considering.

Thanks again for all the suggestions... I will do more research.


----------



## tonyjd34 (Feb 5, 2015)

why isn't it humane to breed fish in a closed environment? do the fish find it inhumane when they reproduce? are you forcing them to breed? nope, it is their natural instinct, just as it is for those fish to eat fry. 
haven't you already created a "condition/atmosphere" by keeping fish native to a lake in Africa in a fish tank in California?
If your concern is stability than mixed gender groups of compatible species are the safest way to go when keeping African cichlids as opposed to all male tanks. imo.


----------



## lilscoots (Mar 13, 2012)

In the all male vs mixed gender dispute, I'll add this. Over two years of my all male tank. I had to remove/redistribute a fish every two weeks on average. Since switching to a mixed gender tank, I've had to remove one fish in 6 months from aggression between two maturing males of the same species.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I am switching over 6 of my tanks to mixed gender and getting rid of the all-male stocking in the 125G. Between having to remove a troublemaker or the stress of waiting to see if he would calm down, and the lack of color in my favorite timid haps...it will be mixed genders for me in all tanks.


----------



## Scott Bryant (Sep 28, 2014)

DJ, I have finally moved and I now have a 125 almost all male hap peacock and re set up a 75. My stock is 1 sunshine male, 2 mdoka flametail males, 1 red cap lethrinops male, 1 Taiwan reef, 1 Borleyi, 1 C. melas, 1 star sapphire, 1 mara rocks, 1 cobue regal, 1 male ob and 1 female ob peacock, 1 female hap hybrid, 1 flavesvence, 1 Aulonocara Yellow Head (Chitende), and 1 Insignus, I want to move the 2 females to the 75 along with the red cap cap, 1 flametail, flavesence, and the lethrinops...then add a couple female lethrinops. what else can I move or another species to add ? I'm thinking deep water hap to the 125. i'd like to move the melas but females are hard to find at the moment.

suggestions


----------



## Ten Tonne Tomahawk (Apr 24, 2015)

I am absolutely dumbfounded as to how you pulled off all those peacocks at once...
How are they displaying for you?
I have only 3 in my tank, and sadly, one is parked in the top corner for now.
I'm hoping he will come around with the next influx of fish this weekend.
It's true what a lot of folks are saying, often it's a single fish that throws the balance out of the tank.
For me it's the Tetracanthus, which shouldn't surprise anyone who has had them before.
What you have, you could add from the Protomelas or Placidochromis families.
Perhaps a Red Empress, or a Spilonotus Tanzania. Avoid the Azureus, you have the glossy blues well covered.
I'd explore an Electra or a Phenochilus, or even a Super VC 10, if you can find them. They get a tad larger than some of what you have, but they are quite docile in comparison with others of similar size.
For me, it has been a matter of what's available, over what I really want. Believe me, my dream list is quite different from my current list. I really like predators with interesting feeding behavior, I can't simply write a hit list and execute it. It can be a lottery. I got a few fish last weekend and the couple threw in a bonus that they had forgotten the name of. It turned out to be Naevochromis Chrysogaster. Now, they have been observed to bump holding females and eating the spilled eggs/young that she drops as a result. Now, I had no idea what this fish was, or it's specific behavior, but what luck!! It fit my bill exactly.
I hope you get some unexpected success, (or expected success) with your tank.


----------



## Scott Bryant (Sep 28, 2014)

I had a couple of line bred strains that I had to rehome. With the exception of the lethrinops and the chitende, all my males are very nicely colored. the 2 flametails are likely related as I got them from the same breeder at the same time. they had 1 spat that lasted an hour and that's been it, but I was going to separate them just to make sure it didn't happen anymore. i'm moving the 2 females because the big boys get a little rambunctious when they start feeling froggy. I want to add the female lethrinops because I was the male to get full coloration. He's pretty mellow so I don't foresee problems, especially if he's the only hap in the 75. I want to move the melas and see if i can get a spawn but the females are scarce,,,i'm hoping my source will have some available soon. so basically, the 125 is my show tank if you will and the 75 will be my experiment with a mixed male/female tank.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Give it two years and let us know how the mix is working.


----------



## Scott Bryant (Sep 28, 2014)

sounds foreboding


----------

