# Bolivian Rams, Angels, Corries and ??? Advice welcome



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm trying to decide what direction to take my 110 gal 4'x2' footprint tank.

Right now it's heavily planted but not doing so well, I did the miracle grow dirt thing capped with safe t sorb, had alot of problems, fish died, grew algae... etc..

things are looking better plant wise, but I have lost alot of little tetras and Angels along the way.

I'm on the verge of selling my t5ho fixture and scrapping the dirt substrate, selling the plants and just replacing with pool filter sand.

If I got rid of most of the plants, what could I keep with 3 Bolivian rams, a couple small angels and a few corry cats? That's all I have left dealing with the sickness, new tank syndrome or whatever it was, the fish have stopped dying after being medicated with fish zole, but it wasn't quick or easy.

Could I switch to earth-eaters and slowly bring in some Geophagus or something completely different? Severums or something? I like Geo's alot and have kept them in the past, but I can see where they might be in competition with the rams for bottom of the tank rights.

Just thinking at this point.

I'm undecided on whether to sell my t5ho fixture and replace with a LED system or remove the plants and go a different direction.
Honestly this tank has been so frustrating and problem prone, I have had a lot of tanks the last 35 years, done fishless cycles, used established filters to jump start, even done fish in cycles, and have lost a few fish here or there but nothing like what I've been through with this tank.

Part or me thinks you're finally over the hump, stick with it and leave things alone,
Part of me thinks sell your 6 bulb t5ho fixture and replace with a more energy efficient - lower light LED fixture.
Part of me thinks you tried and failed, move on and start enjoying your tank again.

Maybe planted tanks just aren't my thing. I can see where a CO2 system and eco complete would have been better choices for this tank but I am so far over budget and sort of over the whole thing after so many set backs.


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

I agree, a co2 would have been better, i think you should jeep the planted tank, bump it up with some c02 and get some geos or if your up to the challenge, DISCUS  I wouldn't sell your bulbs if your not going to sell your planted tank. Also if you do go geos i think you should switch with pool filter sand, either way i would switch but if your going planted then your probably wanting to cycle your tank again considering that your substrate holds a good portion of your bacteria and things can get messy.


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

that brings up a good point, if I drain the tank, empty, hose it off, put new sand in and refill will my 2 canisters even have enough bb to get me back up and running or would my tank have to cycle again?


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

I would wait a week and let some bacteria establish in your gravel, adding a pinch of fish food helps cycle faster. After a week or two then you can start to add fish. Will the tank remain planted.


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

It's all up in the air right now, honestly if I went the geo tank route I would stick to a couple large swords and some anubias and rehome the rest, swap out the substrate.

But I could just keep the plants and still swap out the substrate and not do geos.
I actually bought 150 pounds of floramax when it was on sale ($75 worth) but I have until New Years Day to return it to petsmart, I was planning on ditching the dirt and swapping to the floramax at one point but decided it was probably too much work and if I'm going to be breaking down the tank I should really reconsider the whole planted tank thing because it's been full of set backs and disappointments


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

We'll if you bought the floramax id say put it to good use  How about some DISCUS!Great fish shoal and come in various patterns.


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

I love discus, just worried about water quality, i hear they're delicate


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

Over filter and keep up on water changes and watch ph and you should be fine a ph of 5-6 is. Great for them and my personal favorite are the snakeskins


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

My ph is a constant 7.8 here


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

Driftwood and peat miss should lower the ph as well.


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

True but every waterchange will be a rollercoaster for the fish, I can't lose expensive fish, seems risky


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

But maybe in a few months when the tank is more mature and stable.
Could discus go with bolivian rams, angels and corries or would I need to rehome some fish, discus are high temp right?


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

Found this about discus care:

Temperature requirements

Discus require warmer temperatures than other tropical fish. Preferably 84*-87*, with 82* being the lowest. Use a 250w heater in a 55g tank. 2x 250w heaters on opposite sides of the tank if temp* readings are unstable.

Water quality requirements

Discus require pristine water conditions. This is supplied by frequent water changes.Anywhere from every other day at 25%. Some owners do a twice weekly 40% water change and others have done a once a week water change at 50%.Check your water parameters often with a test kit, and be your own judge as what is best.

So basicly no going out of town ever due to waterchanges and my other fish would cook in there lol


----------



## Pseudeotropheus BB (Jan 24, 2013)

Dredge,

I kept 8 Discus along with 100 rummy nose in a 100g for about 10 years in the 90's and loved every minute of it. I purchased my fish at a size of a silver dollar and for my success I did a 50% water change every day to kept the water as pristine as possible and these fish rewarded my with optimal growth and color. Personally I would not recommend discus to anyone but the most experienced hobbyist. As you research you will learn that these fish require the most stringent pm schedule. Water quality is of utmost important with these fish and you can not slack in your pm schedule. I am not in anyone trying to persuade you from housing discus I just want to make sure you realize this are extremely special animals which require a hardcore pm regimen. If you are up to it these fish will reward you.

Take a look at these two links. The first is probably the premier discus seller in the U.S. The second is something to see to believe.

http://discus-hans-usa.com/


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

An alternative could be angels with the platinums being my favorite or a pair of festivums. They are great to have and are from the same habitat as discus and angelfish.


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

That's why I wrote

"So basicly no going out of town ever due to waterchanges and my other fish would cook in there lol"

Yeah, no thanks, I can't commit to that


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

It's okay so right now were basically stumped;/ Wait!how about some blue acaras or festivums?


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

well I put the sale of my T5 fixture on hold, partly because my promo code for the replacement light I wanted expired and partly because I don't want to be hasty and regret it.

I have until the New Year to decide on if I want to use the floramax anyways, although I would only use that if I were keeping the tank heavily planted, otherwise I would switch to sand.

My plan is to get my QT tank totally cycled and mature first, then look into some schooling fish, instead of South American tetras I think I might mix continents and go for some Danios, Barbs and Rainbows, or Congo Tetras, sort of do a mixed community tank if that makes sense.

Not your traditional African Cichlids but Congo tetras and stuff could work nice I think. 
And I'm thinking maybe after some of those are settled I could look into getting a couple different Angels to compliment the ones I already have, bump up the Bolivian ram population or maybe a dwarf acara species or keyhole cichlid etc? But probably not,

So would these work well together or do they have different water chemistry needs:
Corry Cats, Angels, Bolivian Rams, Rainbows, Danios, congo tetras???

or is that a dumb idea?

I also really like those redline barbs but worried they might be too spastic for Angel fish


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

oh yeah and the point of the qt tank is that this time I want to make sure the fish live a month or so in qt with no problems, then if I put them in my display tank and they start dying off then I'll know that I have a serious problem and it will be time to do something drastic like nuking the tank and starting over


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

The fish should all live together fine, a ph of 7 should work fine. Keyholes are nice, some platinum angels or phillipene blue angels would look nice. I would have 2-3 pairs of Bolivians and dwarf neon rainbows would look stunning. So I'm guessing the tank wont be planted?


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

any reason why it shouldn't be?


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

Well the plants might provide spawning grounds and food for fry due to that your rainbows and danios might spawn in plants such as Java miss when slightly cool per water is added.


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

What do you have in mind then for the tank? Just like a driftwood some rocks and maybe a few bunches of ludwigia ?


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

right now I'm thinking I'll just keep it heavily planted like it is already, I was contemplating getting rid of the plants but I'm going to stick it out and see how it goes.

this is a video I made a few weeks ago when I was losing a bunch of fish, the deaths stopped for the time being, I assume because I'm treating the tank with metronidazole.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=555932137810784&l=5684545655902639968


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

found this cool article:

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4811

and found out this about my water:

Mg 8.33 mg/L
Ca 29.7 mg/L
Na 8.52 mg/L
S04 31.2 mg/L
Cl 9.50 mg/L
Total Hardness: 104 mg/L
Total Alkalinity: 76 mg/L
Carbonate Alkalinity: 0 mg/L
Bicarbonate Alkalinity: 76 mg/L
Non-Carbonate Hardness: 28 mg/L
pH in pH units: 7.76
A GH (Total Hardness) of 104ppm (= mg/l) would be 5.8 or say 6 dGH. The Alkalinity or bicarbonate hardness (KH) of 76ppm would be 4.2, say 4 dKH.


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

Really I would just lower your tanks ph.


----------



## Pseudeotropheus BB (Jan 24, 2013)

Dredge keep in mind that if you decide to add rainbows into the community mix they prefer their water on the alkaline side. I personally would go in one of three directions, either a Rainbow species only tank (there are an amazing amount of beautiful fish out there). Rainbows, barbs, larger danios and large tetras to include Yellow Congo, Congo, African Congo or angels, small SA Cichlids and medium to large size tetras. Either way you cant go wrong.


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

I ended up buying 13 giant danios and 9 bleeding heart tetra at petsmart black friday for 80 cents each, they're all in qt with 5 true siamese algae eaters


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

How's the tank coming along, I would love to see a pic


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)




----------



## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

Your tank is stunning! I absolutely love the layout and how you have the plants and decor arranged. Are they live plants?


----------



## Cichlidman14 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wow! It looks fantastic!


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

Wow thanks. Yeah everything is real


----------



## notho2000 (Dec 8, 2012)

What can I say? Gorgeous. If I were a fish, that's the tank I'd want to 'swim' in.


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

that's real nice of you guys to say, it's kind of a wild mess really, I try to keep my hands out of the tank as much as possible

this was taken 2 months ago









and now


----------



## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

Sincerely, it's a beautiful setup. Your plants must have grown really fast to have filled in so much space in 2 months! I'm surprised you were thinking of giving up on this tank when it's so impressive. Don't you ever get compliments on it when you have guests over?


----------



## Darkskies (Mar 17, 2012)

Also, I think you should go for a huge shoal of a colorful tetra species(neons/cardinals would really stand out). Neons might be a safer bet since they're all tank raised and can do fine in higher pH water but recently I've seen tank raised cardinal tetras being available. In the latter case cardinals get bigger and are somewhat more brightly colored. I've heard that full grown angels sometimes eat neons but I've also read accounts where if you grow the angelfish with the tetras they're less likely to eat them when full grown. I think it can't hurt to try it out especially if you can get the neons for cheap. If you'd rather be on the safe side, full bodied tetras like lemons, bleeding hearts, and congo tetras would also do well and would not get eaten.

Also go for some other cichlid species like the bolivians, keyholes/festivums, and apistogramma(cacatuoides does fine in high pH). I'm really looking forward to how this tank will turn out when you have all your fish in there and it's matured more. Please keep us updated!


----------



## pablo111 (Dec 10, 2013)

Don't get discus. They are a huge PITA. 
Keep your rams and your angels. Add a pair of Severums. They are gentle giants. And maybe a school of larger tetras, or some boesmani rainbows, or how about Denison barbs?


----------



## notho2000 (Dec 8, 2012)

pablo111 said:


> Don't get discus. They are a huge PITA.
> Keep your rams and your angels. Add a pair of Severums. They are gentle giants. And maybe a school of larger tetras, or some boesmani rainbows, or how about Denison barbs?


Keeping discus in a planted tank with substrate can lead to problems with them.The rams, angels and tetras would work well together, along with some corydoras. I would disagree with the severums since they will make short work of your plants (salad bar!! :drooling: ) Festivums would work. Another possibility would be Laetacara (curviceps or dorsigerus) and Keyholes instead of the rams. The Keyholes especially have a wonderful temperment. And they will leave your plants alone.


----------



## dredgesclone (Sep 2, 2013)

I know this is a Cichlid forum but I think I'm happy with my Angels and Bolivian Rams. I don't think I'll be adding any more cichlids to this tank. Actually I would like to keep a pair of my Angels if one forms and swap out the other 2 for another pair that doesn't look so similar like some pinoy blue ones.


----------

