# Sick Red Devil - I NEED HELP!!!



## newbern (Jan 27, 2010)

I have had a Red Devil for about a year now. And it seems to get sick for no reason. Water change incites the ich. Lately, every time I change the water it gets ich. last week I noticed he had sores running laterally down the front of his head. I don't feed it fish, just night crawlers and pellets. After a 3/4 tank change, recommended by the local pet monger, he developed sores which are now very deep and has also gotten the ich which has developed from a couple of spots to full body/fin infestation in the past three hours. (I have owned two Red Devils years ago and never had a problem with parasites or disease.) I can't figure this one out. Can anyone help or is this fish just a hopeless case?


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## mattfromcraig (Jan 26, 2010)

Have you gotten any medicine for it yet? If you have n :thumb: ot then you better get some quick. I bought a female jag back in Oct that turned out to have it 2 days after I bought her but my male never got it. I thought she was going to die, she didn't eat or hardly move for a week but then she came out of it, I bought some medicine made by API ( Aquarium Pharmaceuticals ) it is called Furan 2. I t comes with 10 packets in each box 1 pack for every 10 gallons of water. Follow directions and good luck. I don't think hes a lost cause yet.


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## newbern (Jan 27, 2010)

Yes I give him Quick Cure when he gets ich which usually cleares it right up. And as recommended by the guy at the fish store I got Sera Baqktopur for the sores on his head. I am running both meds right now.


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## PfunMo (Jul 30, 2009)

How long do you treat for ich? While it may clear the visible spots it may take more like ten days to truly rid the tank. Suggest if you have not, read the library articles on ich. Act ASAP, though as time is ticking before it get out of control.


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

What are you water paramiters?

Sorry to hear he is sick.

Thanks,
Matt


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## newbern (Jan 27, 2010)

My last two treatments for ich lasted 12 days. I turned up the water temp to 80 degrees during the process. I am going on two days and hasn't lost the white spots yet which is unusual. Usually they begin to in a day. I have tried to take some pictures but they don't come out very clear.

As for the water conditions, it always runs higher in ammonia (even after a complete change, which I've only done once). The PH is a little high as well. I used ammo lock but was told it was a waste of money and time. I also use Neutral Regulator for PH balance and Stress Zyme+ to condition the tank.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

Hold on...you turned it up to 80? What does it normally sit at?

For ich, you need to turn it up to about 86 for at least a week straight.

Why does it always run higher in ammonia? It shouldn't.


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

They like the PH "a little high" too, but higher ph makes ammonia more lethal. The sores on the head could be from the ammonia and low temps. A year is a long time for a tank to cycle :-?


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## newbern (Jan 27, 2010)

I usually run the temp at 78. I will gradually turn in up to 86 for the treatment. I am completely clueless about why the ammonia level is high. I have been doing two week water changes to keep the levels down but when I test there's not much change.

I was tried to paste an image of Jimmy to his post but its kicking my butt.


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## SinisterKisses (Feb 24, 2004)

How big is the tank, what have you got for filtration?

You should be doing water changes at least every week, 50% to help the ammonia. Twice a week couldn't hurt until you get it under control.


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## newbern (Jan 27, 2010)

I have a 75 gal with a Penguin Emperor 400 bio filter. I and fill the media cases with Premium Carbon Ammonia Neutralizing blend in addition to the the regular blue filters. Do you think I should finish some of the treatment until he ich has subsided prior to doing a water change?

For Bulldogg7 - I will start to keep the temp above 80. I ususally kept it in the high side of the green on the standard glass thermometer.

What baffles me is I had two Red Devils growing up with no problems. I even threw on in a bucket with heater and aerator, drove 3000 miles to the east coast and she did fine.


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

With the emporor 400 I would not expect any ammonia after a month, not to mention a year... strange. I have herd some theriories that if you use the ammonia-carb stuff it will not leave enough ammonia for your benficial bacteria to develop enough to handle your bioload. Then when you do water changes the ammonia will spike. I am not sure if this is your issue. I would maybe try not using the ammonia removing stuff and instead use prime during water changes to lock the ammonia up and give the bateria a chance to catch up. I used to use this stuff and then stopped, but i did not notice a diffrence in my water paramiters either way.

Do you have the ammo-carb in while you are medicating the tank? It will remove the medication if you have it in there while treating the tank.

Thanks,
Matt


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## bulldogg7 (Mar 3, 2003)

78F was high enough, just sounded like you might have been a lot lower
86 will help with the ich, think Matt's right on the ammo-carb, has to be something not letting the bacteria do their work. Prime converts the ammonia to a form that will still feed the bacteria but is safer for fish. 
Do you have another tank or a friend with one that you could take some used filter pads from and stick them in the Emperor while taking the ammocarb out?

Are there any red streaks in the fins? Blood red or brown gills? The test kit might be giving you a bad reading, it seems if you've always had the ammonia problem the fish would be showing a few other signs.


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## newbern (Jan 27, 2010)

Matt - Yes, I took the filtration while medicating. Okay everyone, thanks for the help so far. Here is what I am doing so far. I will keep the temp above 80, say 84 - 86. Increase the frequency of water changes (once this episode subsides.) Nix the ammonia filtration media. Routinely use stress zyme. Is there anything I'm forgetting?


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## newbern (Jan 27, 2010)

No red streaks in the fins or brown gills. I do have another Emperor 400 on a 55 gal tank. But I shouldn't swap filters until the quick cure treatments are done, correct? Just to clarify, I use the regular blue marlinland E filters in conjunction with the media holders. Perhaps I should just use the E size filters. I have a small bottle of Prime that I usually use to remove chlorine. Should I dose it with some prime now?


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## mlancaster (Jul 24, 2009)

newbern said:


> I have a small bottle of Prime that I usually use to remove chlorine. Should I dose it with some prime now?


If there is ammonia in the tank I would add the prime, but why not do water change too. It will be better. I would dose enough for the full tank not just the water changed while you have the ammonia issue.



newbern said:


> Increase the frequency of water changes (once this episode subsides.).... Routinely use stress zyme. Is there anything I'm forgetting?


While your tank is having problems I would definitely increase water changes. I would say at least every other day (of course easier said than done, one of my tanks has ich and I am traveling during the week for work, so it only get three water changes on the weekends, then none all week, but if I was home I would be doing every other day). I do not think you need to use stress zyme if you are using prime with water changes, but I am not sure on that. I think stress zyme is a declorinator and promotes slime coat, which is what prime does as well, prime also locks up ammonia for 1-2 days so it is not harmful to fish but still feed beneficial bacteria. I am not a scientist, wish I was, wrong major in college, but that is my understanding of prime. Maybe some one can help with stress zyme, I only have used it when i first add fish to a freshly cycled tank.



newbern said:


> I do have another Emperor 400 on a 55 gal tank. But I shouldn't swap filters until the quick cure treatments are done, correct? Just to clarify, I use the regular blue marlinland E filters in conjunction with the media holders. Perhaps I should just use the E size filters.


I do not believe bulldog was recommending moving the whole filter but just something from the filter with beneficial bacteria. I.e. with the emperor it would be the bio wheel. But does your 55g have ammonia issues as well? If so I would just leave them the same and let the bacteria build on its own (it multiplies quickly with the presence of ammonia, and I would doubt your established tanks have absolutely no bacteria (I guess you never know). If your 55g has perfect water conditions, I would do a water change on the 55, treat with prime and switch one of the bio wheels with the one on the 75 gallon.

Regarding the media. The blue pads are great if you want to use carbon to remove coloration and odor (of course not during medication). I use carbon off and on so sometimes I just cut the pad open and dump the old carbon out and use the blue pad for mechanical filtration, washing it out every water change. My tank does not have ammonia issues. Therefore, I use pillow batting in the grey clam shells to filter out fine particles and change it every month. However since you are having ammonia issues you may need more bio media. So I say for the time being, I would buy and add the bio media white rings to your clam shells to give the bacteria more places to multiply. One more question... do you every clean or change your bio wheels? you should never touch them and make sure the spray bars are hitting them and making them spin.

Sorry if you already knew a lot of this stuff, I guess I just really got carried away as I look back at all I wrote. Hopefully it is helpfull and not to much jabber.

Keep us updated.

Thanks,
Matt


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