# Julidichromis or n. brichardi?



## rafini (Mar 20, 2014)

Just looking for some opinions really, I have kept and bred tangynikans in the past but it has been quite a while since I kept them.
I have a tank thats around 30g with lots of rockwork and some hardy plants (anubis, java fern and limnophilia) all that is in there right now are some nerite snails and 5 tiger barbs just to keep everything going.
Recently I was thinking about what I could put in there that would have some interesting behavior in and around the rocks (I can easily move the barbs to my 75g community)

I did consider shell dwellers but I don`t really know where to get the neothuma shells from and to be honest they are the least favorite of the 3 species.

So its either a colony of Neolamprologus Brichardi complex, or Julidochromis "Bemba"
I have kept both of these fish before and my two deciding factors are

1. Do Julidochromis create a colony of fish? like shell dwellers or brichardi.
2. If I select some young Brichardi that I know were born at the LFS and are from the same parents (still in with them) would they form their own colony when removed to another tank on their own?

Thanks


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

No and maybe.

Juli's usually tolerate only a pair.

Brichardi adults with their own fry, especially if the juveniles are still young, may retain the bond through moving to a new tank.


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## rafini (Mar 20, 2014)

Okay so I suppose Birchardi are the better choice.
If I was to take say 5 of the young brichardi and place them on their own, would they form pairs and make new colonies?
I assume they probably would but just curious. I would like to start a colony


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Both Julidochromis and brichardi share some behaviors. To start a breeding group, you often begin with six to eight unsexed juveniles. A pair eventually forms and unless you are attentive and prompt, will kill the other fish of its kind or chase them right out of the aquarium. Then the pair will fill the tank with wave after wave of fry. The largest fry help care for the younger, but stay as far from their parents as they can. They will reach a size when they normally would strike out on their own, but they are not in a lake where that is possible. You again have to intervene and remove the largest set of fry to another aquarium, whether yours or somewhere else.

They are different in other behaviors. Brichardi will swim all over the tank while Julies stay close to surfaces. If you have ledges and rocks going up the back of the tank, the Julies will follow. Brichardi swim oriented to the light, but Julies swim oriented to the surface they are on. If it's vertical, they will swim vertically with their belly toward the rock. If it's a ledge they will sit on top of it but also under it upside down.


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## Leyshpunctatus (Feb 19, 2016)

Mcdaphnia said:


> Julies stay close to surfaces. If you have ledges and rocks going up the back of the tank, the Julies will follow. Brichardi swim oriented to the light, but Julies swim oriented to the surface they are on. If it's vertical, they will swim vertically with their belly toward the rock. If it's a ledge they will sit on top of it but also under it upside down.


One of my favourite things about my J. Dickfeldi is seeing them defy gravity and swim upside down underneath a rock overhang.


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## rafini (Mar 20, 2014)

I probably should have mentioned that I have kept and bred both Brichardi complex and Julidochromis before, it was just a very long time ago.

Julies were actually the first fish I ever bred at the age of 12.

So if I take a group of the fish away from the parent aquarium they will form their own pairs?
The LFS has them in one tank each and each tank is basically a colony. I would like to replicate the same thing. I do have a soft spot for julidochromis and the ones at the LFS are always at the front following you around looking for food.

Maybe i can make them a deal to get a good price on some of the smaller fry. Most LFS will sell cichlid fry for the same price as adults but I know quite a few of the employees lol


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My julidochromis did have several generations of fry in the tank at one time, but a couple here...a couple there. And the original pair quite quickly forced me to remove them in a matter of months...to me it did not feel like what I think of as a colony.


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## rafini (Mar 20, 2014)

Thank you for the insight DJransome, I did read when researching that Julies can be difficult to house long term as they can act aggressively out of nowhere.
The Brichardi complex fish are a much more stable choice.

I went to look today and I saw that there were 4 of them in the tank, I can always look elsewhere for some additions but I was just curious what I should look for in a pair?
Would males be larger and with longer fin trailers? 
I have noticed some Brichardi having a somewhat humped appearance, is that a naturally occuring morphology or is it just the result of poor breeding practices?

Sorry for all the questions, I would like to try and end up with a pair


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

I've kept Julies since the 1970's. That has not been long enough to witness the "out of nowhere" aggressive behavior you researched. Both brichardi and Julies will become aggressive when a pair forms within a group of juveniles. Both will become aggressive to their own fry if they are left in the tank to a size close to maturity. Unless you are oblivious to developments in the tank, aggression is predictable and for a reason in both groups of species.

Usually both kinds of fish pair off. I have had a reverse trio of Julies a few times. A female regani will decide to pair with two males and they will take turns fertilizing a spawn of eggs so each male is probably parent to a percentage of the offspring. I have had a menage of brichardi once. I bought a BAP bag of six brichardi fry with long trailing white streamers on the fins when adult. At the time they were considered a different species but then were soon lumped as brichardi. Before seeing any aggression, I saw fry and at first could not figure out who was the pair until I saw them spawn. All six participated in spawning. I have never seen that before or since. I sold the adults and I thought all the fry. The cichlid club member I got my six from had not seen this behavior and it never happened again for me.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

My experience with juli's is the same as McDaphnia's first 2 sentences. My experience was that a long-term colony did not happen for me. I did not realize brichardi behavior is the same...I thought a long-term colony was more common. I have never kept them. I learned something, thanks!


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Venting is a dependable way to sex adult Julie's. Males grow faster and larger than females. But they endure more wear and danger than the female. She stays closer to the fry. If the male is killed, the female finds a new mate, usually younger and smaller than she is. In


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

The behaviour that you get out of Julidochromis, or brichardi/pulcher types largely depends on the tank size that you keep them in.

I am presently keeping some marlieri in a 4ft 75, and some pulcher daffodil in a different 4ft 75.

With the marlieri, I started with 5. All five are still in the tank, and to be honest, I have no idea which is the female. The male is easy to pick out. The five all go in and out of the rocks. There are probably 80 or so in the tank now, some of the babies are about 2.5".

With the daffodil, I started with a wild pair. The original pair have since passed, but there is at least two males, and four females in the tank with regular fry.


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## Shawnandson (Aug 29, 2016)

Great information, thanks. I have a 40 g long and want to have only Julidichromis (species TBD) so I was wondering how many to bring on, assuming they are gender ambiguous. If, ultimately, there's only room for 2, it seems a bit sparse for my taste.


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## Mcdaphnia (Dec 16, 2003)

Shawnandson said:


> Great information, thanks. I have a 40 g long and want to have only Julidichromis (species TBD) so I was wondering how many to bring on, assuming they are gender ambiguous. If, ultimately, there's only room for 2, it seems a bit sparse for my taste.


You can start with six or more juveniles. In a four foot tank you can build two "coral heads" at either end with something blocking vision from the fish perspective in the middle. You may get two pairs at either end and then remove the extras. The point being made by some is that both brichardi and julies can be individuals, so that they may diverge from the lifestyles of their parents. You might get a group of "hippies" who found a fish commune. You might get a pair who instantly try to dispatch all competition if they can't chase them out of the tank. Or something in between.


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## Shawnandson (Aug 29, 2016)

Sounds good - can't wait for this tank to cycle!


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