# UGJ pipe size / pump



## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

For those of you who use UGj's, And those of you who also use a submersible pump to power the jets. 
this one is for you.

What is the GPH on your submersible pump.
How many pumps so you use?
How wide are the pumps in your system.
and how many jet's per pump?

I was planning on using 2 pumps that are going at 650gph (ea.). With 3/4" pipe, Then use 1/2" for the outputs (jets).
I believe i planned for 8 jets. set up in a "closed" circuit system.

I'd love questions and comments. 
But criticism will be most useful


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

I have a 50 that has 3 jets powered by an external Mag 7 or 9, I can't remember which, the flow is adequate but three is not enough jets. I really wish I had taken more time to get that right, because once you get sand in there, it's really a beast to do anything like add a jet.

In my 5 foot 100, I presently have 8 jets but I will raise that to 9 or 10 just to make sure I have good coverage. No substrate, heck, no water right now, i am in the hands on planning stage on that one. My entire setup is 3/4, but when I shaped the nozzles, I really squeezed them down. I used 3/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 tees because that's what I had on hand, I know they make x 1/2 tees, too, if you want to go that route.

For power, my pumps are outside, so I have head height to contend with, but I read the article that says 150-200 gph is the sweet spot, so I planned accordingly. With your 1300GPH, you could do 6-8 jets.


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

Wonderful response! thank you.

So you mean 150-200/jet correct?

One last thing. What is you're footprint?
mine is 60x24. Would 8 jets be adequate for this?


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

Yes, sorry, 150-200 GPH per jet. My issue is other than math, I have no way to determine what that is when it is set up, so I just divided my total pump GPH by 150-200 to get how many jets I can go with. Your is probably easier to figure accurately, because you have no head height etc to contend with.

My present tank that I am working up is 5 feet by 18 inches, with a pretty big overflow box. Your tank is only 6 inches wider, 8 jets should do it, but set it up empty and play with them to make sure you minimize dead water as much as possible.

There are a couple ideas people seem to use, one is kind of a random patterns blowing across in various directions, to me, that didn't make as much sense as picking a direction and blowing all the jets in that direction so I am not fighting one jet with another, essentially cancelling out 2 of my jets. All of my jets blow counterclockwise, to get a current blowing in a circle and past my overflow intake.

Photos:




























None of the fittings inside the tank is glued or will be glued. I was already able to flip one over that didn't do what I wanted, now it is blowing in the opposite direction.


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

Mechanically, I ran sched 40 3/4 pipe and fittings, T ing off where I wanted jets. Depending on what I wanted to accomplish, I used a 90 and/or a 45 to get the nozzle where I wanted it to be, then I boiled some water and dunked some 2 inch sections in, counted to 10, and pinched the heck out of it with a channel lock plier, and held it until it set up. Try to only pinch the extreme end, if you oval the other end, it will be tough to get it into the fitting the nozzle installs in.


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

*CITADELGRAD87*

Looking at those picture, I have talked to you before. I think I even gave some ideas!
Thanks for the help. I'll be going with the same setup. I love the idea of the counter clockwise this. 
Initially I wanted to just push everything to the back corners where the intakes are. 
I think I'll keep one intake close to the bottom of the tank, and the other about 10" up. I'll make sure all debris get sucked up before sand goes anywhere near my beloved tank!

You were tons of help. I'll be going out and buying my fittings tomorrow afternoon.


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

Cool, glad I could return the favor, you are the reason I closed the loop.

Good luck and take some pictures.

Oh, and make a specific list of parts you need from the diagram, count them up, then add a couple more. Ask me why I say to buy extra.... :thumb:


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

*CITADELGRAD87*
I am indeed him! I believed somebody mentioned it, and I jut clarified it.

Another question.
@ this link http://www.fullbloomhydroponics.com/rio ... -gph-1-ft/
It says that is is 660 at 1 ft head height. If the pump is places ~2 ft under the water surface, does this mean it's even lower than 2ft? I was under the impression that head height was only applicable if the pump was outside of the tank.

*Anyone?*


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

Head height is the distance pumped in a tube straight up, against gravity. Is your setup gong to be about 2 feet above the jets, shooting down via a down pipe to the jets? If that is the case, you would have no head height.

Am I correct that this will be inside the tank and blowing down only, into the jets? I have read that elbows do add some drag, I have heard a 90 is a foot of head height, but I think you can discount the distance between the pump and the jets if it is up and down.

I would assume you're getting the flow rate they list for one foot, or even better.


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

This setup will have the two pumps approx 3" above the bottom of the tank. I'm keeping them as close to the bottom as possible. I might raise it up, but that will only be done if 3" effects the substrate. Now that I think about it, I might need to raise it to 5-6". 
So yes *CITADELGRAD87*, It will be inside the tank, and only blowing down into the UGJ's.


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

*CITADELGRAD87*
One more thing if you dont mind. 
In your photo's you have changed this jet 180 degrees, What way did you decide with?


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

Still in the process in planning it out. But so far this is what I have. 









what do you think? This design leaves me free to place rocks where I want, and keeps a circular motion going on. 
Intakes (there will be to) for my canisters will be placed at 6" from bottom, and the 2nd will be at 14" above the bottom. 
There will also be my AQ110 running, and If I plan it right, I might extend it's intake and put it on the opposite side at about 8" above the bottom.

All this equipment will be covered by a background.


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

I see a red X? I can see where the picture is supposed to be but I can't see the picture.

In my photo, I flipped not only that circled jet 180 degress, but I also flipped the one to the left, that formerly pointed into the back corner, now it is pointed at the front corner and is contributing to the counterclockwise flow.


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

OK, I see it now. I like it so far, one thing I did that is hard to see is I extended 2 of the jets to blow across the front to back center of the tank, and kept the other ones short, like the left front and right back jets on yours. I just added about 6-8 inches of 3/4 to the T before I nozzled it.

I like that you did a good job blowing out the corners, that should help.

EDIT one last thing, I will be moving my back jets forward about 3 inches when I get my background in, I ordered one, i will do that by just shortening the left and right sides. If you are making your own, you could leave it as is.


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

I'll be making my own. And the design will only cover the top 70% of the tank.


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

Pretty sure I've made up my mind. Tomorrow I will spend some time putting it together.










Yellow = Tee
Red = Two (2) 45 degree angles
Blue = '+' joint

9 jet's total.

Edit: SCRAP THAT! Changed plans.. again.


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

Looks great. I like how you have covered the middle of the tank with this latest. I hadn't thuoght abuot 2 45s instead of a 90, but the restriction is probably less your way, maybe you will have a bit more flow?


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

FINAL. I'll be cutting it out shortly.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

I like the new design! I've been following this thread but not posting for lack of expertise. I agree with CITADELGRAD87 that (2) 45 degree couplings on the end will help with the flow, I think the extra tubing in the middle will help a little bit with that too. Watching you build this should be just as fun as watching the planning stages; I'm honestly thinking about putting some of these in my latest 7' tank venture after seeing success with these after researching because of you're thread.


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

OK, get to it.

Later tonight, I hope to post some progress on my in wall thread.


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

*The King Crabb*
Thanks for posting. Good to know there's a few others following. CITADELGRAD87 seems to know a thing or two about this. It's good.

And to anybody else, I have assembled my UGJ system. Well, most of it. I changed my design after buying the parts, and I'm short one 3/4" T, so I'll pick it up after work tomorrow. 
I also haven't mounted any jets. At the moment they Tee off, and end there. Jet's will be assembled on Sunday. I'll be too.. uhh.. "busy" over the Halloween weekend to have any energy for this project.

So here are the pictures I took just now.

I didn't realize how many pieces I would need. I counted them up, didn't think twice about it. Then it hit me as soon as I went through checkout. **** tubes & joints cost just as much as the AQ110 I got of CL. $45!









Assembled.. minus one T









Sitting in my beloved 140 gallon (5x2x2)









Once I got it in there, I realized I might need to trim off 1 1/4" to both the depth and width of this. There is only 1/2" space around the system. I don't want to have sand in, them start putting rocks in when it SHIFTS, and it pressed against the front of the tank.

EDIT: So I'm thinking of taking off 2" off the front/back to give more room to work with my pumps. And 1" from left/right will be fine.

Cheers.


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## The King Crabb (Jun 28, 2011)

Nice looking stuff! Did all those joints and tubes cost you $45? I thought equipment would cost only ~$10..


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## niktam (Dec 30, 2010)

Definitly Tagging this to come back to this for ideas, it looks pretty solid. I also like how you have the pump outside( i am assuming in your sump. Following this idea I could probably use this for return, but I do not know how this would do with the loss of surface agitation.

My main issue is that my wife hates the waterfall sound.


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

D Southworth, sorry about a minor hijack,

Niktam,

On the first page is a build thread of my in wall 100. It's kind of long.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=235293

The tank has an overflow box and the sump return will power the Undersand jets. No visible equipment in the tank.

My overflow box feeds a wet dry in the sump, that's all the surface agitation in the whole system, I think it will be fine, in my 50 the HOB filter and the the underwater spray bar pointed up to ripple the water are all I have ever used. In the 100, I have about a foot of short waterfall into the overflow, and a 14X 14 drip tray.


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## niktam (Dec 30, 2010)

Just curious, is this up and running yet? Concerned about the pressssure on the UGJ bothering the fish, the gph required to overcome the gph out might be a bit much?


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## CITADELGRAD87 (Mar 26, 2003)

Mine is not yet up and running. I am adding a ball valve to dial it down if I yave to, but I find in my 50 that the fish love and seek out the current. I am not worried about too much current.


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## dsouthworth (Sep 7, 2011)

The construction of my stand will begin this coming weekend. I should have water in this in two weeks time. I'll post pictures as well as an update when the time comes. I believe *CITADELGRAD87*'s tank will be up and running sooner than mine.


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