# Color Enhancing Hormones



## tripnbili

Ok, so the more I read about people winding up with fish from their LFS or Petco etc. which are totally colorful, and then lose color only a few weeks later is astounding. I mean, the other day I walked into my LFS (where I'm on pretty decent terms with the owner) and saw a 55gal tank full of 1-2" mixed peacocks in FULL COLOR! There is no way they just happened to all mature like that, and their physical health/appearance looked somewhat poor. I've been in there several times since then and they just continue to slowly loose color. Apparently he has been selling quite a few of them on a regular basis, but the demand has gone down and he is stuck with a tank full of these fish.

Anyhow, where are these distriubutors getting this **** from? I mean it should be illegal!


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## Number6

tripnbili said:


> Anyhow, where are these distriubutors getting this #%$& from? I mean it should be illegal!


 I don't want it done to my fish... and I think they should identify when it has been done to fish for sale, but illegal? can't really go there with you. What real harm is done to the fish? 
is it any more than other odd things we do to pets like spay and neutering?


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## cichlidpastor

Number6 said:


> tripnbili said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, where are these distriubutors getting this #%$& from? I mean it should be illegal!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want it done to my fish... and I think they should identify when it has been done to fish for sale, but illegal? can't really go there with you. What real harm is done to the fish?
> is it any more than other odd things we do to pets like spay and neutering?
Click to expand...

Number6, i read somewhere (and please correct me if this is wrong) that hormones will sterilize the fish. Is this true?


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## Number6

it can yes. I chose my analogy on purpose :wink:


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## 6stang9

I have bought many juiced fish and gone through the color fade. Once they mature most have colored up again. I think that they start with good strains because they color up more with juice at a smaller size. I have had some that also reproduced with no problems, so I dont think it causes sterility.


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## Number6

*6stang9* an overdose is known to cause sterility. It's all about the dosage!

All in all, I'm not a fan of it... but I've yet to find anything actually objectionable about it. Just seems unnecessary to muck with a perfectly good pet out of impatience!


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## 6stang9

Its all about the money, color sells. I'm not a fan of it, but I see they're point.


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## CichlidsTank

what do they 'juice' them up with? hormones?
My red zebras are unusually bright. hope they aren't juiced


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## DJRansome

Yes hormones. I don't know if they are literally steroids, but I think the health impacts are similar.


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## tripnbili

I google "color enhacing hormone for fish" and several other similar phrases and can't find much on this. Anyone know where any good and educating articles on this sad subject can be found?

And are these hormones like "black market" for fish distributors like human steroids are? Can't find anything in regards to that either...


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## DJRansome

I've seen ads like on aquabid where fish are coming from asia where giving the fish hormones is advertised as a selling point. I believe the hormones are in the foods they feed the fish. The hormones also cause extra growth in fins beyond what is expected for the age of the fish.

I googled this phrase and got a lot of hits: hormones in fish food.


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## 24Tropheus

Surely it is at least dishonest to sell hormoned fish without telling the customer that is what they are?
Sure it is easy to see with young wild types, they would not be showing the colour and fins at 11/2" etc but on man made fish it can make a fish seem far "better" than it will be in your tanks unless of caurse you know it needs hormones to maintain its looks.
I would avoid shops that sell em except I run out of shops to go to.  
As said they sell well. 
As for the LFS getting stuck with em as they run out of colour, well call it Instant Karma!. :wink:

As I disaprove of the practice, I would not post how to do it on an open forum, if I knew. :wink:

I see this on some Aulonocara adverts. Maybe best to get your fish from folk who advertise like this?

"None of these fish are Taiwan hormone fed animals which often make for weak stunted fish."

I would be very surprised if there was no poor health payback for hormone treating cichlids, one rarely gets something (extra finnage extra colour extra growth rate), for nothing. 8)


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## PitBully

I heard Sumo brand pellets carry these type of hormones. Not sure if it is true, just what I've been told.


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## tripnbili

I just think it's sad...all the fish I've seen which have obviously been hormoned look to be in poor health :-?


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## 6stang9

Again, color sells, people that dont know what they are buying are not going to buy a tank full of 2" silver fish. That is why suppliers juice them up. Lfs dont have alot of choice. This is how the fish come. Good lfs also get good fish for the people who know what they want. But to attract some one to the hobby, you need to have colorful fish.


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## bulldogg7

There's some documentation on testosterone used in trout farming changing fish to males and producing some hermaphroditic and sterile fish. Surely it can't be harmless for cichlids.

http://www.infish.com.pl/wydawnictwo/Ar ... %20w02.pdf


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## 24Tropheus

Oh well I guess you guys are going to find out anyway. A bit of research reveils...........

Hormones may be administered by feeding, injection or immersion, of which the first two are favoured. Clearly the timing of administration of the hormone during development is crucial. The work of Yamamoto (1969) revealed that androgens, such as 19-nor-ethynyltestosterone and the synthetic analogue methyltestosterone, were the most effective in accomplishing masculinization. Oestrogens, such as oestradiol-17b and ethynyloestradiol, were very effective for feminization. Close to 100% masculinization of cichlids Oreochromis niloticus has been obtained within two weeks by administration of dietary methyltestosterone at 5mg/kg (Pandian and Varadaraj, 1987). This regime produce fertile males which could be used for breeding but were also commercially better as a crop than mixed-sex fish. Even lower concentrations of 1 mg/kg administered for six weeks (Bye and Lincoln, 1986) yielded male rainbow trout which were authentic males with effective sperm ducts. Higher concentrations of hormone yielded male trout which were incapable of being stripped of milt and thus the acquisition of milt from such fish required sacrifice and dissection.

It is I think a nasty for profit practice from commertial fish farming, with potential major probems to the long term health and breeding of ornamental cichlids that are largly unstuddied and unproven I think. (At first it was I think used just to ID Malawi cichlids as the male colouration and female colouration could be quickly shown using a single fish). Really someone should studdy it, as the practice, I find it abhorant, seems to have become common for profit.

I am not sure wheather the practice is actually illegal anywhere and may be impossible to enforce a ban in any one country.
I did find this in one article but I found no evidence backing the claims.
"In the United States the use of male hormones (testosterone) in fish foods is highly illegal, and for good reason. Long-term use of steroids in fish food has been associated with skeletal deformity, increased susceptibility to infections, and pathological changes in the liver, kidney, and digestive tract. Females that are fed sex steroids will Ã¢â‚¬Å"color upÃ¢â‚¬Â


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## 24Tropheus

I guess in the UK it might be illegal to use steriods on cichlids, as it is illegal here to cause unnessarcery suffering to any pet (animal in our care), including fish. Animal welfare act I think. But proving that suffering is caused might be hard. Also just like dyed fish etc I think one can import and sell them without fear of prosecution, even though it could be proved the suffering is given financial suport by the importer.  
A rather sad loop hole in our laws yet to be fixed I think.


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## Number6

24Tropheus said:


> I did find this in one article but I found no evidence backing the claims.
> "In the United States the use of male hormones (testosterone) in fish foods is highly illegal, and for good reason.


 it is not illegal in the US. It is a practice that I know of being actively used and one can fund aquaculure articles and even active US patents for fishfood with hormones (including testosterone).

Like any drug/chemical/hormone, quantity matters!


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## tripnbili

Wow, this is some crazy stuff. Feel so bad for these fish. I stopped in that LFS today and at least half of those fish have lost their color....look unhealthy....and just plain sad


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## 24Tropheus

I guess I should point out that US patents for fishfood with hormones (including testosterone) does not make their use legal or ethical on ornamental cichlids. You can have a patent for stuff that it is illegal and unethical to sell or use (depending on local laws) I think.

Can you buy this stuff for use on ornamental cichlids in you LFS? If not, why not?

I would urge any shopkeeper or dealer to find out from there supliers exactly what is being used on the fish they sell to customers and find out the exact legality and ethics of selling them (labeled or unlabeled) to customers.

If it is legal and ethical, then, I guess, those who sell them could sell the food the customer needs to keep them coloured up.

I would guess this varies according to local laws.

All the best James


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## 24Tropheus

Link to a patent. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4239782.html


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## the_evil_dickfeldi

I once bought an OB peacock....Thought it was a blue varient male...A few weeks later it changes to orange and is holding eggs!  Which were hybrids themselves, on a side not(Jacob/OB mix)

She was a healthy specimen though  Still, buyer beware, fully-collored male peacocks coundn't be so cheap!

Just my 2 cents.


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## Xanrae

I think it`s sad what people will do just to make a buck. I feel for the fish, like the painted glass fish that`s injected with dye, just to be more appealing to customers.


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## Mellywell

I'd like to reopen this discussion if anyone else is interested. 
I've been searching for a high quality Eureka Red Peacock since October. My tank is established. Its been a while since I've visited this forum, however a lot of my 20 year old + frontosa's have been passing due to old age in the last 2 years and my largest 9" loach. So they've been replaced with Haps and Peacocks along the way. 
I can not ad anything to my tank smaller than 3". They would just be slaughtered or eaten. So a larger Eureka is what I've been searching for. 
ALL OF THEM in the area from Muskoka-Orillia-Barrie-RIchmond HIll- Mississuaga- Newmarket and Toronto are Hormone enhanced. 
So yesterday I bought one. He had been at the store for 3 weeks so they guy told me that they have faded, not sure if we were looking at real colour or not. For me however the shape of the body and head were more important than colour and this male was fitting the bill. 
The aggression from my other fish towards him and an enhanced OB peacock I brought together (I always introduce more than one fish at a time to spread the beatings around) is like nothing I've ever seen. They should be charged with assault.

I feel so bad. Like I purchased a puppy from a puppy mill. Seems the same to me. Unethical practice.

I'm shamed.


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## Robinhud

High water quality and better matched water conditions do pretty much the same thing. In my experience if stores would spend more time on taking care of the fish and set up there system properly in the first place there fish would be colorful.


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## noki

Robinhud said:


> High water quality and better matched water conditions do pretty much the same thing. In my experience if stores would spend more time on taking care of the fish and set up there system properly in the first place there fish would be colorful.


Not sure if you mean Mbuna, but it is normal for young Aulonocara and Haps to have female color, and you get one or two early male color ups. One alpha male colors up, and there usually is a beta waiting for a chance. Somebody buys the male or males that show some color, then the next in line color up.

Really, a lot of these hormoned fish are hardly bred for quality in the first place, they don't care that much. They add hormones and the fish lights up in some way.


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## noki

Mellywell said:


> I'd like to reopen this discussion if anyone else is interested.
> I've been searching for a high quality Eureka Red Peacock since October. My tank is established. Its been a while since I've visited this forum, however a lot of my 20 year old + frontosa's have been passing due to old age in the last 2 years and my largest 9" loach. So they've been replaced with Haps and Peacocks along the way.
> I can not ad anything to my tank smaller than 3". They would just be slaughtered or eaten. So a larger Eureka is what I've been searching for.
> ALL OF THEM in the area from Muskoka-Orillia-Barrie-RIchmond HIll- Mississuaga- Newmarket and Toronto are Hormone enhanced.
> So yesterday I bought one. He had been at the store for 3 weeks so they guy told me that they have faded, not sure if we were looking at real colour or not. For me however the shape of the body and head were more important than colour and this male was fitting the bill.
> The aggression from my other fish towards him and an enhanced OB peacock I brought together (I always introduce more than one fish at a time to spread the beatings around) is like nothing I've ever seen. They should be charged with assault.
> 
> I feel so bad. Like I purchased a puppy from a puppy mill. Seems the same to me. Unethical practice.
> 
> I'm shamed.


How large are your older fish? If the juvenile fish are big enough to not get swallowed, they are generally ignored. Adding sexually mature fish causes problems, since they are seen as competitors. If you fish are too large, you may always have big problems adding fish.

Also, about the color of the Eureka... they hormone female fish too, so you can't be sure.


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## Mr Chromedome

Robinhud said:


> High water quality and better matched water conditions do pretty much the same thing. In my experience if stores would spend more time on taking care of the fish and set up there system properly in the first place there fish would be colorful.


Stores are not the ones hormoning the fish, it is the commercial breeders/shippers who are doing so. And often it is added from a very young age, so the fish are pretty messed up sexually long before they get to the store.


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## Fogelhund

I've seen Stanozolol at some Fish Farms in the past.

As far as potential harm, without a study, it appears to me as thought he mortality rate for such fish is higher than normal.


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