# Compatibility confusion



## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

I know it's the nature of the internet, but trying to get a definite answer over what will be compatible with the haps, peacock and mbuna in my new tank is near impossible. I've got a mostly peaceful 70g tank and will be transferring most of them over to my new 140g next week. The only occasional trouble-causers are one of the Jacobfreibergi Eurekas (who's only problematic with his fellow male Jacobfreibergi) and a hyperactive Red-Top Hongi.

So here's my question: can I have Julii Corydoras or Clown Loach in with my Africans? Some say yes, others say no, and some are undecided. Great. The compatibility article on here suggests Clown Loaches will be fine, but further research revealed differing opinions, even including an article called Why African Cichlids And Clown Loaches Aren't Compatible. Hmm.

Or if anyone has any suggestions about what would work well with the Africans. I just want something different, with the two above my preferred choices, but anything interesting would be fine. I love the Botia Loaches, but as it's an open-top tank and they're jumpers, that's out. I'm not bothered about algae-eating ability or 'clean-up crew', because I reckon that's usually an excuse for being lazy about water changes, and ignores the s**t they generate.

The tank's quite long and wide, 7ft by 2ft, so will cope with decent-sized fish. Any suggestions?


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

clown loaches will be fine. i've seen it work first hand


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## The Cichlid Guy (Oct 18, 2014)

The problem with clown loaches and corydoras is that their water requirements are on the opposite end from cichlids: soft, acidic water.

Many cichlid enthusiasts still encourage keeping clown loaches with cichlids, but loach experts maintain that the fish will not thrive, and may even suffer. I doubt many of us here would suggest that anyone try to keep Malawi cichlids in soft, acidic water, so it's easy to see their point. If your water is pretty neutral you might have success mixing the two, but I feel it's best to give each fish what they need, rather than trying to compromise.


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

this is prbably something to think about if u have wild caught fish. however most of the fish that u will have (i'm assuming) are bred locally in comercial waters. therefore, the water that they were born and raised in was probably pretty much the same as yours.


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

sumthinfishy said:


> clown loaches will be fine. i've seen it work first hand


There's quite a lot of anecdotal 'evidence' that these work together. I suppose the real issue is are both species thriving? Yes, they might be able to co-habit, but that's different to being truly compatible.


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

The Cichlid Guy said:


> The problem with clown loaches and corydoras is that their water requirements are on the opposite end from cichlids: soft, acidic water.
> 
> Many cichlid enthusiasts still encourage keeping clown loaches with cichlids, but loach experts maintain that the fish will not thrive, and may even suffer. I doubt many of us here would suggest that anyone try to keep Malawi cichlids in soft, acidic water, so it's easy to see their point. If your water is pretty neutral you might have success mixing the two, but I feel it's best to give each fish what they need, rather than trying to compromise.


Good point. With my water, though, it's not too much of a problem, because it's pH 7.3, and both the clown loaches and julii corydoras will tolerate it up to 7.5. I was going to buffer the new tank up using the buffer recipe on here, but if I didn't do that it would be a tolerable compromise for all.

The issue raised elsewhere online for the Julii Corydoras was not the pH, but the fact they apparently shouldn't be alongside "aggressive species". As I've selected from the more peaceful end of the African Cichlid scale, I'm wondering whether that applies? As I said, it's a very peaceful tank, barring the occasional outburst. I've even had a zebra danio in there for months who refused to be caught with his mates after helping cycle the tank, so I just left him in, and he's doing fine. The Africans never bother him, and he's comfortable around them now, and has even abandoned that frenzied, skittish demeanour danios have in favour of a more leisurely, mbuna-type way of moving. You watch, he'll get eaten now I've said that...


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

sumthinfishy said:


> this is prbably something to think about if u have wild caught fish. however most of the fish that u will have (i'm assuming) are bred locally in comercial waters. therefore, the water that they were born and raised in was probably pretty much the same as yours.


It's actually quite difficult up here in Scotland to get exactly what you want locally, so you have to bring them from wherever, and they'll often be coming from hundreds of miles away where the water can be completely different. It's just pot-luck, really, over whether the water's similar.


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

LeeAberdeen said:


> sumthinfishy said:
> 
> 
> > this is prbably something to think about if u have wild caught fish. however most of the fish that u will have (i'm assuming) are bred locally in comercial waters. therefore, the water that they were born and raised in was probably pretty much the same as yours.
> ...


as i said, if they are wild caught then this is a concern. in my opinion. as far as thriving goes, the africans were big, beautiful, and breeding like crazy. meanwhile the clown loaches were at 6-7" and still growing. thriving or not? u decide.


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## Mr Chromedome (Feb 12, 2013)

IF Clown Loaches are commercially bred, it is done in the far east in soft, acidic waters; there is little difference between this and wild caught. Unless things have changed a lot, the vast majority of Clown Loaches in the hobby were collected wild. HOWEVER, the species is highly adaptable, and water chemistry is not relevant to their health unless it is extreme. The real reason they can survive with Cichlids is the fact that they carry a switchblade: there is a spine hidden below the eyes that they frequently extend and use as a weapon to fend off attackers. Combined with their agility and speed, this almost always deters even the dumbest Cichlids, as other fish learn quickly not to mess with them.

Corydoras are a different matter. Their standard defense is a coat of armor and sharp spines in the fins, which are not always adequate to fend off persistent aggressors. They will try to run, but eventually they will be stressed to death. Some species of Cory are also more sensitive about the water chemistry, but the "Julii" complex of species are not normally among them. They are not as fast as Clown Loaches or Mbuna, and therefore will be unable to escape easily.


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## sumthinfishy (Jan 26, 2013)

My response to commercial breeding is that "clowns have been bred on fish farms in the czech republic with help of hormones". either way, as i stated originally clowns and africans can and will work together. good luck to the op.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Clowns can work with cichlids, but the cichlids will be happier than the clowns. I prefer Synodontis.

pH aside, clowns can grow to 13" and like to be in groups of 6. Takes up a lot of your space for stocking haps and peacocks.


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

DJRansome said:


> Clowns can work with cichlids, but the cichlids will be happier than the clowns. I prefer Synodontis.
> 
> pH aside, clowns can grow to 13" and like to be in groups of 6. Takes up a lot of your space for stocking haps and peacocks.


Yes, I'm leaning towards Synodontis now too for exactly that reason - even in a big tank, six is a lot of clown loach to house. I want the Africans to be the main feature too, and I think the loaches could end up as the centrepiece instead.

Any suggestions on catfish much appreciated...


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Synodontis multipunctatus or lucipinnis. Stock 5.


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## Eugooglizer (Oct 30, 2012)

I have had great luck with two clown loaches in my all male tank. They have been in there for 2.5 years, and come up and feed with all of the cichlids. I have snails in my filters and that was the original reason I got them, and I have literally never once seen a snail in my tank due to them.

If you are worried about them taking up a lot of space you could use for cichlids, remember that they are extremely slow growers (mine are probably around 3 years old and only 4-5 inches). Once yours get big you could always sell them and start over with some smaller ones--I have seen big clown loaches command a big sum of money at local fish auctions. They take a very long time to get to breeding size.


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

DJRansome said:


> Synodontis multipunctatus or lucipinnis. Stock 5.


Great suggestions, like both of those, especially the multipunctatus. The only problem is trying to get exactly what you want, because obviously not everything's available.

Tried to find out what catfish one of my local fish stores had the other day, and all I could get out of them was that they had four. I asked what type they were, but I might as well have asked them what time the aliens were landing. Maybe they thought I should buy whatever they had on the off chance it doesn't grow into a two-feet-long-monster...


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

binnyskyle said:


> I have had great luck with two clown loaches in my all male tank. They have been in there for 2.5 years, and come up and feed with all of the cichlids. I have snails in my filters and that was the original reason I got them, and I have literally never once seen a snail in my tank due to them.
> 
> If you are worried about them taking up a lot of space you could use for cichlids, remember that they are extremely slow growers (mine are probably around 3 years old and only 4-5 inches). Once yours get big you could always sell them and start over with some smaller ones--I have seen big clown loaches command a big sum of money at local fish auctions. They take a very long time to get to breeding size.


Everything I've read says they should be in at least a group of six, so you've done well to have them happy like that in a two. There seems to be plenty of anecdotal 'evidence' of them working well with Africans, but maybe we only hear the success stories?

I get a bit attached to my fish, so don't like the idea of raising them, only to sell them when they get too big. To me, it goes against good aquarium husbandry to stock something that's eventually going to outgrow your tank. Plus, it's stressful on them.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I assume you can order online in Europe just as we can here. Many of our cichlids and Synodontis come to us in the US via Germany for example.


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

I've not seen any UK breeders online, and I wasn't sure how catfish shipped anyway. I guess, if you're in the US and got them from Germany, they ship fine? I thought they might be like some of the plecos and ship badly.

I see from your fish list you have quite a few synos, so any tips on suppliers would be welcome.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

They ship perfectly! You would need an importer in the UK. My guy in the US brings in German orders monthly. Synodontis are always on the list.

Try www.planetcatfish.com in case they can give you vendors closer to home than I can.


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## Eugooglizer (Oct 30, 2012)

> I get a bit attached to my fish, so don't like the idea of raising them, only to sell them when they get too big. To me, it goes against good aquarium husbandry to stock something that's eventually going to outgrow your tank. Plus, it's stressful on them.


I'm in the same boat, that is part of the reason I only got 2 clown loaches. I was planning ahead and figured that my tank would be able to handle 2 big clown loaches, but not 6.


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

DJRansome said:


> They ship perfectly! You would need an importer in the UK. My guy in the US brings in German orders monthly. Synodontis are always on the list.
> 
> Try http://www.planetcatfish.com in case they can give you vendors closer to home than I can.


Just ordered three of the multipunctatus, which are supposed to be coming in from France next week. Mind you, my LFS has form for saying they'll order stuff, and then you never hear anything again, so we'll see. They'll be perfect with the Africans and, at nine inches, are a great size for the tank too, so thanks for the tip.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I've never seen a 9 inch one and mine are about 10 years old...7 inches is more common. You want a group of 5 for sociability...with 3 you risk never seeing them.


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## LeeAberdeen (Sep 4, 2014)

DJRansome said:


> I've never seen a 9 inch one and mine are about 10 years old...7 inches is more common. You want a group of 5 for sociability...with 3 you risk never seeing them.


Just changed the order to five so, again, thanks for the tip.

The nine-inch reference comes from the PlanetCatfish site which, under the species profile, says it reaches 8.7 inches. That's for the "Synodontis multipunctatus Boulenger, 1898", but there is another multipunctatus on there, "Synodontis aff. multipunctatus", which has no size on it and might account for the confusion. Either way, that's not a bad size for my tank.


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