# Bolivain Rams living with German Rams?



## Dizzcat

Hey everyone. 
I have had my pair of Bolivians for 2 years now. They have been in a 20 gallon tank and I am moving them to a 30 this weekend. They have spawned many times in the past. What I am wondering is, will I cause trouble if I add a couple German rams? I am always drawn to them at my lfs but do not have a tank I could put them in. Would a 30 gallon be big enough that my established Bolivians would share? The tank is 30" long, x 12" wide, x 19 High. It is my planted tank with drift wood & river rocks, neon tetras, rummy nose tetra, 2 Cory's and 2 African dwarf frogs.

If you all feel it would not work I will pass on it. If you all think maybe it would I would like to try it. 
:fish: :fish:


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## Afrowanksta

IDK if it's a good idea. 
Although rams are typically mild mannered, you may run into problems having a breeding pair in there.

I would try it, but be ready to separate.


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## edburress

The biggest issue is the difference in temperature preference. Blue rams preferring warm water (82-84Âº) and bolivians preferring slightly cooler temperatures (76-78Âº). If you do try it, provide the conditions for the blue ram, since bolivians are more adaptable and hardy.


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## Dizzcat

ed, I already keep my tank at 80-82Âº because any lower than that and the spawns don't make it. I had a preset heater that kept it at 76-78Âº and the fry would die right after they hatched to wigglers. Once I replaced the heater and set it to 82Âº the fry all lived. :thumb:

So actually, temp is not an issue. Just worried about temperament of my B Ram male. I have a bunch of juvie B rams in with them, a couple the same size the German ones at the lfs are and he just ignores them. I doubt he knows they are his kids since they spent the first couple month in a 10 gallon until they were big enough not to get eaten by the other fish in the Ram tank.

The thing I like most about my lfs is they know me and if it does not work out they will take them back.  They are the ones who always buy my B Ram fry. I would love to try a male/female pair of German rams now. Think a 10 gallon would be too small for a pair? Right now its a tiny fry/holding mom tank but could fix it up to a breeding tank if need be.


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## briansbelle

i too am curious about keeping blue rams and Bolivian rams together in the same tank. i have a 30 gallon(3 foot tank)and i have 2 male GBR in there(didn't realize they were both males when i got them 

i would like to add a couple Bolivians in there too.
my tank temp stays at 80degress.
i run peat in the filter, and my ph is about 7.0...need to test it today.
i have c02 in there and lots of plants. some driftwood and clay pots to hide in...

please keep me updated on how it works out..i want to pick up some Bolivians at the ACA this summer :wink:
here is my tank setup so far, going to get more plants at the ACA..lol


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## Dizzcat

This is my 30 gallon planted tank that has the Bolivian Rams in it. This is the setup I wonder if a couple German Rams would be OK in. The plants need to grow out some more. They were in a 20 gallon and that tank looked so full, now the 30 looks empty!


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## Dutch Dude

> ed, I already keep my tank at 80-82Âº because any lower than that and the spawns don't make it.


 Thats odd,...I have successful spawning Bolivians at a temp of 75F. Did you set the temp on the heater at 82 or did you realy measured a temp of 82 in your tank? There can be a rather large diference between the temp the heater is set on and the real temperature.

IMO Bolivians and GBR make a poor combination. Bolivians are defenately the hardier specie but do best on lower temps while GBR are the more demanding and "delicate" specie that need higher temps, neutral to soft PH and very clean water (basically same needs as Discus). Combining both species would compromise on the needs of both species as well. In stead I strongly suggest to keep larger groups of Bolivians in stead,...if the tank size allows it, or go with GBR.


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## Dizzcat

Dutch, its the tank water the reads 80. I never go by the heater temp, only the water temp. Each of my heaters need adjusting. Since I have upped the temp they are much more active and breed more often then when the temp was lower.

I wont part with my pair, they are my favorite, so I guess I will stick with the Bolivians. I may keep a couple of their fry. I just love watching the tank full of fry. You have the parents, then a couple at 1 1/2" then 8 at 1/2". Its so fun to watch them all interact! I have noticed my biggest fry is always hanging out with his dad. Its almost like dad is teaching him how to be a male


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## briansbelle

i have posted this same topic on other forums and got the same response on both of them. that as long as the ph and water softness is right for the blue rams then housing 2 blues and 2 bolivians should be no problem. the bolivians arent as touchy as the blues and will adapt to lower ph...

my tanks ph is 7 and i run peat in my filter to soften the water.

i plan on adding a pair of bolivians to my tank this summer.... :thumb:


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## Mooo

Hello
I am new here, Just wanted to add to this thread..
I have a heavily planted 320L(don't know what that is in gallons) Community tank & the inhabitants amongst others are 6 Blue Rams, 2Gold Rams, 7 Bolivians, & one male Orange Cockatoo, I haven't seen aggression between any of them, The rams blues & Golds are the chasers but never any injuries noted.
Temp sits around 27>28... :thumb: 
























































































































 Sorry for so many pics, Just wanted to show they can all live happily in a big enough tank.
As you can see they are all healthy & get along without any squabbling.. :thumb:


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## edburress

Dutch Dude said:


> Thats odd,...I have successful spawning Bolivians at a temp of 75F. Did you set the temp on the heater at 82 or did you realy measured a temp of 82 in your tank? There can be a rather large diference between the temp the heater is set on and the real temperature.


I agree with Ruurd, my bolivians spawn at 76 degrees and the eggs/fry develop fine. I would assume a different reason other than temperature was the cause of the spawns to be unsuccessful. Dozens of members that follow the BRC thread keep and breed their bolivians between 76-77 degrees.


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## Dutch Dude

Mooo,.....beautiful tank and I have to admit,...beautiful fish that look very healthy! How long do you keep Bolivians and GBR in this mix? I can understand it will work short term but I wonder what will happen with the Bolivians after say 9 months or so. Thats why I like to know how long you have this set up.


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## Mooo

Hiya Dutch dude & edburress
Thanks ....
This tank has been set up since April 2008..So it's been running with theBollys & the Rams for a year now..With no problems, I have even had rams spawn in there, of course they were removed to their own tank..And i had 8 survive, this was while I was a novice ram keeper.
My two largest Bollys & my spawning Rams were "Livefish stock bought the in same order as the .
They all get along fine. although one thing I hve noticed is the Bollys are not interested in their female counterparts in the least. But the rams thats another story, they have been prolific breeders for me.


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