# 29 Gallon stocking advice



## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

Having become utterly bored of my 29 gallon tank being filled with Rasbora's I hit on the idea of starting the tank over with a pair of new world parental care offering cichlids. I have been researching and convicts is appealing and certainly easy enough to find but I am a little concerned about being overrun by the offspring. I definitely want them my cichlid pair to breed. That is the purpose for keeping them, to observe their breeding and parental behavior. Are there any other species anyone can recommend that I am likely to find at my LFS? I have had the suggestion of Bolivian Rams but they are supposed to be a bit tougher to keep so I don't know. Someone also suggested Rainbow Cichlids but I'm not sure I can find them. Thanks. I have two other tanks including an 80 gallon fully stocked Mbuna tank so I definitely want the parental care for this one.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Get the cons and feed the fry to others?


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

Firemouths............. 8)

Breed easy, beautiful, don't breed as rapidly as Convicts, and more in demand then convicts


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

I thought about it but somebody said Firemouths need a bigger tank than 29 gallons.


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## Bearbear (May 8, 2010)

Scientific Name: Thorichthys meeki
Common Name(s): Firemouth Cichlid, Fire Mouth
Maximum Size: 6"
Tank Size : 30 gallon for a pair, much larger for multiples.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

+1 for the Firemouths

The 29g is a little small for them but a pair could probably work.

I think rainbows would be your best option, but like you said they are hard to find locally. Maybe you could find a local breeder. Check with a local club and see if they can connect you with a breeder who has rainbows.

Also, there are some great parental Old World cichlids too if you are interested. Calvus would be a good choice for a 29g.


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

IMO a 29 gal is perfect for firemouths. I just don't understand it. How come you can keep a pair of Convicts in a 20 gal L or a 29 gal but no you can't keep a pair of Firemouths in them they are too small.

Convicts and Firemouths are the same size. 5-6 inches. If a pair of Firemouths can't go in a 20 gal L or 29 gal then a pair of Convicts or Rainbows can't either. :roll:

Brichardi or Julidochromis are also good choices and easy to find in LFS.

I know someone that breeds Rainbow cichlids. If you would like I can see if he has any extras and I can ship some to you. PM me if you are interested.


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## duds (Apr 16, 2010)

I'd say 20 long or 29 is a bit small for either cons or firemouths, but still do-able. At the moment I have a pair of cons (5" and 3") in a tank with the same footprint as a 29... it works, but I'd like to give them something bigger.


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

duds said:


> I'd say 20 long or 29 is a bit small for either cons or firemouths, but still do-able. At the moment I have a pair of cons (5" and 3") in a tank with the same footprint as a 29... it works, but I'd like to give them something bigger.


Agreed

What works and what is ideal are two different things. 29g is small for any 5"-6" cichlid, but that doesn't mean they be kept in a 29g successfully.


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

Thanks for the offer to ship but I need to hold costs down. There are a number of good local fish stores near me and I will work with what they have. (I just had my entire Mbuna tank, all 30 plus fish) shipped. Was quite expensive.

I don't know why some sources say Firemouths need a bigger tank. Obviously it's not based on size but behavior. I know 29 is not ideal but it is the best I can work with. The problem, of course, is that I need them sexed as the only reason I am getting them is to see their parental behavior. I spoke to my LFS today and the firemouths are very hard to sex at any point that they would be available whereas the convicts are easy to sex and also easy to breed. For $15 I think I will try out the convicts and see how it goes. I am busy enough with my other two larger tanks. I want to keep this one relatively simple.


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

Well yeah I agree that it is better to keep Firemouths, Convicts, and Rainbows and other 6 in fish in a bigger tank then a 20 gal L or 29 gal but the 20 gal L or 29 gal is doable to keep a pair of either in. Yeah I like to keep my fish in a bigger tank than doable if it's possible. Ok not a problem. I understand. I just thought I would offer.

Yeah Firemouths are hard to sex where as Convicts are easy to sex. Firemouths are just as easy as Convicts to spawn they just take a little bit longer to mature. If you get 6 or so juvies you will have a pair of Firemouths very easily. Convicts are very fun just letting you know you are going to have a lot of fry but I guess you have the Mbuna to eat some fry if you need to thin out fry. I just thought I would suggest Firemouths because they are very beautiful fish and don't spawn as frequently as Convicts. As you mentioned in your post you were concerned about being overrun with fry and wanted some suggestions so I thought Firemouths would be a good idea.


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

I appreciate all the suggestions. You think a possible idea would be to get say 4-6 firemouths, wait for them to mature and pair off and then get rid of the others? Maybe later on when I feel more comfortable. I would think for my first monogamous cichlids the Convicts might be a good idea. I was thinking about using the fry as food. I don't think it would be a good idea to feed them to the Mbuna as it might be a bit heavy on the fatty protein for them. However, I do think my Tiger Barbs and Rainbow fish would go nuts for them. (They are in my 55 gallon) Right now I feed them frozen worms or shrimp twice a week and convict fry could certainly substitute right? I could let them stay with the parents for as long as natural then move them to my ten gallon tank to await feeding time.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Going with cons sounds great just don't let the fry get too big before you feed them to others or you will end up with a few tanks of cons. I love cons. I have been more into the rare and more difficult fish for a few years. I always end up back at cons though, black, pink, marbled doesn't matter all good stuff.

Good luck and enjoy.


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

Did I read correctly did you say a pair of cons would be worth 15 dollars wow that's expensive around here cons go for .99cents to 1.50 for one


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## ZeroSystem (Sep 4, 2005)

gus211 said:


> Did I read correctly did you say a pair of cons would be worth 15 dollars wow that's expensive around here cons go for .99cents to 1.50 for one


Woah, you're right, either there's a typo there or those are super expensive cons! 

I'd like to second what chrispyweld said, be cautions feeding the con fry to your other tanks. The only reason I say so is that cons are incredible survivors, and I've had some fry even slip past my red devil for months! By that time they can get big enough to start causing trouble, especially for community tanks. I'd also like to mention that from what I understand, getting a group of juvies is always a good idea when trying to establish a pair of cichlids. Even if you do know the gender of the fish a forced pair sometimes won't work out as smoothly as if you had allowed the fish to pair on their own. Of course, I'm not sure how much of this really applies to convicts, considering they will pretty much breed with anything. :roll:


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## gus211 (Sep 21, 2009)

You also have consider another thing after cons mate if there's no other fish in the tank the female might see the male as a threat and kill him the female and the male work great together when there's a threat and when they need to keep the fry safe from other predators but by themselfs shell see him as the predator if had this happen to me on a couple of occasions


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

> You think a possible idea would be to get say 4-6 firemouths, wait for them to mature and pair off and then get rid of the others? Maybe later on when I feel more comfortable. I would think for my first monogamous cichlids the Convicts might be a good idea.


Yep you got it! :thumb:

I usually go with 8 juvies when wanting to breed a cichlid.......unless of course they are Convicts then I get a male and 2-3 females. :lol:


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

chrispyweld said:


> Going with cons sounds great just don't let the fry get too big before you feed them to others or you will end up with a few tanks of cons. I love cons. I have been more into the rare and more difficult fish for a few years. I always end up back at cons though, black, pink, marbled doesn't matter all good stuff.
> 
> Good luck and enjoy.


How soon after birth do you suggest I separate them? I do want to enjoy parental care for a while.


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

gus211 said:


> Did I read correctly did you say a pair of cons would be worth 15 dollars wow that's expensive around here cons go for .99cents to 1.50 for one


I guess really juvenile ones might go that cheap but if big enough to sex I think they go for around 10-15 for a pair. Maybe a drop less.


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

ZeroSystem said:


> gus211 said:
> 
> 
> > Did I read correctly did you say a pair of cons would be worth 15 dollars wow that's expensive around here cons go for .99cents to 1.50 for one
> ...


Plus they would be the only fish in the tank.


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

OK. NOW. I am suddenly changing my mind and thinking that I should start with around five or six juvenile firemouths and see if they pair off then remove the others. So the questions I now have for the experts are these.

1. Assuming I get them at a pretty juvenile age, how soon can I expect them to pair off and how can I eventually sex them? How can I tell if they have paired off?

2. Once they pair off are they likely to breed?


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

My FM's have always taken a VERY long time to start breeding. Better part of a year almost every time I have had a pair. If cons sell for $15 a pair you might be able to get some store credit for the fry.

All the left coasters and middle America folk need to realize that $15 in NY is not the same as $15 anywhere else.


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## duds (Apr 16, 2010)

With all the talk of con prices, I just have to throw my 2 cents in here... I was just at my lfs yesterday and they're trying to sell 1.5" - 2" cons at $28. Just gross. The other main store in town sells 1" cons at $4. Guess where I shop?


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

Obviously convicts should not cost $28 at any size. Regarding the response above on the FM, if they take a long time to pair up does that mean it would be ok to leave five or six in the tank UNTIL they pair up?


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

What do you all think of rainbow cichlids? I just found an opportunity to buy an already formed pairing?


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## tokyo (Jan 19, 2010)

They are a good option. I have never kept them myself but I know someone who has them in a 29g and they are doing well. There was an issue with them muting their colors, but it turned out to be a problem with food selection. The problem is now corrected and they are doing great.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

dougrhon said:


> if they take a long time to pair up does that mean it would be ok to leave five or six in the tank UNTIL they pair up?


That would be my concern as well and why I always assumed others recommended against them in smaller tanks.

Go for the Rainbows!! Great fish for your sized tank and a pair is a lot nicer then getting extras that you will have to rehome later. That sounds like the best option to me, I would be all over that.


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

> What do you all think of rainbow cichlids? I just found an opportunity to buy an already formed pairing?


Rainbows are beautiful and great fish to have. I have kept them once. The only thing is once again it's hard to sex them. Really the only way is to go by size. For the most part the biggest fish are males and the smallest fish are usually females.

Also you must keep in mind that when buying "pairs" why are they selling them? You must keep an eye out and ask the seller if they have spawned and produced fry. Also see if the seller has pictures or proof they have spawned as well. Sometimes sellers have a pair (male and female) for sale and they are selling them because they have never spawned or spawned successfully. They do this to get them off their hands because they (the seller) wants a good spawning pair that produces fry so they can breed them and the pair you get could be a bad pair. Just letting you know and a heads up.

Personally, I only buy juvies and I don't and won't buy older fish and pairs of fish. Unless of course they are livebearers :lol: . I like to buy them as juvies and watch them grow up and I feel more successful because I raised the fish up from a juvie and got pairs on my own. I just feel that when buying older cichlids or pairs of cichlids I feel that the fish isn't mine and it's not my success. I feel that they are someone's success. Also keep in mind when breeding pairs are moved into a new environment and home they can either spawn less then from their original home or just stop spawning all together. The move from their home to a new home will make them stressed and not feel comfortable to spawn and they can lose their mood to spawn. Fish breed when they are comfortable, in a healthy and clean environment, and the fish are healthy. Good luck! :thumb:


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## AquaticLove (Jul 13, 2010)

duds said:


> With all the talk of con prices, I just have to throw my 2 cents in here... I was just at my lfs yesterday and they're trying to sell 1.5" - 2" cons at $28. Just gross. The other main store in town sells 1" cons at $4. Guess where I shop?


Wow, that's outrageous! My cons are $2.99 at my LFS for ANY size.


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

CiChLiD LoVeR128 said:


> > What do you all think of rainbow cichlids? I just found an opportunity to buy an already formed pairing?
> 
> 
> Rainbows are beautiful and great fish to have. I have kept them once. The only thing is once again it's hard to sex them. Really the only way is to go by size. For the most part the biggest fish are males and the smallest fish are usually females.
> ...


He said they have spawned several times already and he has over a hundred juvies as a result. Normally I agree with you regarding raising them from youth to adulthood but that is my Mbuna tank. In this case I am simply looking to see parental behavior as quickly as possible so this is a good deal for me and it is a small tank and I don't want to have to deal with removing some later. The good thing is that with Rainbow fry, I might be able to sell them for say $1.00 a pop since they are a lot harder to come by.


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128 (Mar 22, 2006)

> He said they have spawned several times already and he has over a hundred juvies as a result. Normally I agree with you regarding raising them from youth to adulthood but that is my Mbuna tank. In this case I am simply looking to see parental behavior as quickly as possible so this is a good deal for me and it is a small tank and I don't want to have to deal with removing some later.


Ok that's good! If that's the case go for it. Sounds good. :thumb: Oh I completely understand 



> The good thing is that with Rainbow fry, I might be able to sell them for say $1.00 a pop since they are a lot harder to come by.


Very true :thumb: That and they are very beautiful fish. I wouldn't mind having some again someday.


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

I was actually kicking around the idea of leaving the school of Harlequins in the tank with the Rainbows seeing as how these are less agressive Cichlids. Any thoughts on this? Are the Rasboras small enough to be eaten? The Rainbows are pretty small as well but obviously not as small.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Again, i would be all over that.


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## dougrhon (Jun 11, 2010)

Slight change of plans. The Rainbows fell through. I emptied the tank and purchased a male and female convict for $1.49 each. Sound more reasonable? They will have the tank to themselves. The store owner told me to expect offspring within two weeks. If another opportunity for Rainbows or something else happens I can simply get rid of the convicts. But this will be a good introduction to family oriented cichlids.


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## chrispyweld (Dec 20, 2005)

Great choice you wont be disappointed.


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