# Advice? 50 gallon acrylic stocking.



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

Hi Everyone,

I currently have a 30g mbuna tank with the following stock:
- 1 Yellow Lab
- 1 Red Zebra
- 1 Blue Johanni
- 1 Golden Mbuna ( M. auratus ) 
- 1 Albino Ps. socolofi or albino zebra?
- 1 Yellow tail Acei
- 2 Convicts
- And one that looks like this (http://m2.i.pbase.com/u36/minoltaman/up ... embuna.jpg) Don't have picture of mine but he is aggressive and head of tank. Anyone?

A couple of things. I believe the only female is the Golden Mbuna. The Convicts are large and hold their own. Both Male. They only fight with the one that is the head of the tank (and occasionally with eachother). I know Convicts are not supposed to be in the mix, but so far it has worked. I have had this tank for 4 months and all has been well.

So here is the point. They are outgrowing this tank so I purchased a 50g acrylic tank and stand for $40 off of Craigslist. I buffed out scratches in tank and stand that came with it had a lot of water damage so I built a stand. Tank will have 15g sump below. All these fish will be moving over. I will begin cycling soon, and once complete I want to add a new cichlid to the tank before moving the rest of the stock, so that fish will hopefully be dominant.

The Big Question: 
I want a big guy(5-8in) that will do well in a 50g, do well with my current stock, is male and more of a show fish (colorful). *What Peacock, Hap or Mbuna would be a good dominant cichlid in this tank?* I have been researching the Fryeri and think it would do well with most of my stock. Also, should I consider adding more mbuna cichlids? Also would like to add some synodontis lucipinnis.

I have done a lot of research on this but would like some opinions.... Thanks Alex.


----------



## Austinite (Jul 27, 2013)

Are you going for an all male tank? Just clarifying what you are trying to achieve. I feel that you will see issues with your current mix eventually, once they reach sexual maturity. You've only had your tank up 4 months and that is probably why you haven't seen issues yet. Ie, mixing haps, mbuna and peacocks, convicts.


----------



## amcvettec (May 11, 2012)

What are the dimensions of the 50G? That will help determine what will work.

Unfortunately, with the stock you have, there isn't much out there that's more aggressive than the Auratus. I don't think a peacock or hap would do well in your tank. Maybe an OB peacock (hybrid) will be aggressive enough. It is not recommended to keep Haps/Peacocks with Mbuna due to the rambunctious and aggressive behavior of the Mbuna, especially when spawning.

You have been lucky to not have problems with your setup so far. With only 1 female in the tank, I take it there have been no spawns yet. That is normally when everything starts to go downhill. It seems like you would prefer to go with an all-male setup based on your current stock. I would suggest removing the Auratus female and the 2 convicts with the move. I would stick with Mbuna only or a hybrid peacock like OB or Dragonsblood that will hopefully be on the more aggressive side. This may still prove difficult in the tank, depending on the size of territory it allows.


----------



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

Thanks for replies.

Austinite, Yes I am going for all male. When I first got cichlids, I did not think to look at sexes. I am lucky I ended up with mostly male (especially with convicts). Please correct me if I am wrong but auratus females are yellow, while males are more brown. It also does not have any egg spots. I can remove auratus if necessary.

Amcvettec, the dimensions are 36" x 16" x 20". Not as long as recommended (48"), but I feel with the absence of equipment in main tank, will provide adequate room. Would an all male tank(removing auratus) provide some possibility of having one peacock/hap? I know it is done but I do want good environment for the fish. And yes, no spawns yet. I am not sure about moving convicts. I have grown fond of them, and they are doing well. I've read if they have grown with Mbuna, they are less likely to be bothered.

Any other possibilities, opinions? Were you able to classify my last fish?


----------



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

What about an "Ice Blue" Zebra mbuna? Would that work?


----------



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

Any other help?


----------



## mike1234 (Feb 16, 2010)

ajramos92 said:


> Thanks for replies.
> 
> Austinite, Yes I am going for all male. When I first got cichlids, I did not think to look at sexes. I am lucky I ended up with mostly male (especially with convicts). Please correct me if I am wrong but auratus females are yellow, while males are more brown. It also does not have any egg spots. I can remove auratus if necessary.
> 
> ...


On your first statement, male auratus are black and blue. Females are less aggressive, but still can become killers with time. How sure are you that the other species that are not dimorphic are sexed properly?

I don't mean to offend with anything I say, just giving hard learned advice. Your acai is one of the largest mbuna common in the market, and is one of the few open water species. Zebras and labs also get large. There will be aggression between the two if they both turn out male. The albino should be obvious as to which fish it is, as their body structure is completely different. Johanni and auratus are also two of the more aggressive species, and really should not be housed together.

The 48 inch rule isn't so much a recommendation as it is a staple with everything except few species only tanks. Your fish just get too big for your tank imo. Also, one or the other, mbuna or convicts are suffering in water parameters which are nowhere near what they should be in. You do not have enough fish to over crowd, and it sounds as if you're running a bare tank, so WHEN, not if, there is aggression, there will be no place for the stressed fish to hide.
I will not even comment on the haps and peacocks, as it would just be a mess for so many reasons. I would seriously consider getting a larger tank, different fish species, or a mix of smaller mbuna, although they can be even more aggressive. I did similar with my first fish purchases. Getting fish that looked cool for a nice mix, although I had a 55 gallon 4 foot tank. It was regularly a blood bath, and I could not add any fish to the mix until I rehomed the majority of my original fish.


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Your tank has a similar footprint to a 40 breeder. I would not try a single species tank with any of your Africans in that small of a tank. I would do the convicts only, and add a dither fish.


----------



## mike1234 (Feb 16, 2010)

I was referring to smaller or less aggressive species. I've kept cynotilapia species and some of the dwarf psedu species in similarly sized tanks. Although, I've heard of labs working in 36 inch tanks


----------



## amcvettec (May 11, 2012)

I agree with above. A 36" tank does not give you the room you need. Maybe move the Convicts into the new tank and find a better deal on a 55g or 75g (48" tanks).


----------



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

Sorry guy for delayed response.

Mike 1234
"How sure are you that the other species that are not dimorphic are sexed properly?"
- Short answer, I am not. just off of research and large generalizations, I guessed. All the fish except the auratus have 2+ egg spots. They are all slender in shape, growing rapidly and aggressive. I am uncertain about all but auratus, Johanni and convicts at this point. I would vent them but I am sure I would still have no idea what I am looking for. I will most likely have to wait to see if any of them hold (minus auratus which will be removed). I will play it as I go, as most people do. And I never though of the size of the Acei reaching so big. He(maybe she) is the small one of the tank right now. I would like to see him take over as dominant.

- I agree with you all completely. A larger tank it is! All the fish are currently arount 3-3 1/2". Money is short for Cmas...Do you think the size of the fish would be fine in the 36" for 2-3 more months?

-BTW i am in an apartment so I am weary of going over 55g. Hoping to buy my own house once I save enough which will completely alleviate this issue. 110 gallon would bee nice!


----------



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

Forgot to add..the current tank isn't bare. It has rock I have collected from a dried river. They are round and flat, and stacked creating many spots to hide in. I see it breaking up chases constantly. I plan on getting limestone for 50g tank. :thumb:


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

The presence of egg spots is not indicative of sex.

There's no way to know if the 3' tank will be OK for a couple months. You'll just have to hope for the best. Good luck.


----------



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

Update: I decided to take everyone's advice and stick to a couple species.

4 Labidochromis caeruleus (yellow labs)
3 labidochromis hongi
1 Acei (couldn't part ways)
1 sailfin pleco
1 rainbow shark

All are well. I realize acei and pleco will get too large. I will deal with that when the time comes.

I got 5 hongi but found 2 dead a few mornings after getting them. I found temp at 69. I realized after working on sump, I left the heater unplugged =(

The yellow labs are doing great but the hongi are shy. I also never see them eat, they spit out the food. (but after having them a week I know they are eating something). Any ideas?

I will post pictures in a few munutes.


----------



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

So here are the picture. After taking over 50 these are the best I got with a cellphone. I am planing on adding more rocks soon.

Another question. Should I add more hongi? If my guess on gender is correct, there are 2 males and 1 female. Should I add more female or just more hongi? Also, could I get away with 1 more dwarf mbuna species in tank?


I believe two in front are male, one in back female. One in back is always hiding


Male. I think?? One in back female?


Definitely male on left. Most aggresive.






Yellow Labs


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Fish can survive for a long time without eating, so there's no guarantee they are feeding. Spitting food is not good, and could be something serious. What are you feeding?

Check this out and see if you're seeing any other symptoms: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/malawi_bloat2_pt1.php

How big are the L. Hongi? Hard to sex them when they are small. All my females have an orange dorsal even when colored down.

Also, I think you need to add twice the amount of rock, especially with these type of fish in a 3' tank.


----------



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

Thanks for the article. I don't believe it is bloat. They are spitting out the food but not have a "cough" or thread like excrement. I feed what my lfs has. Ocean Nutrician, cichlid vegi flakes. Should that be ok? I feed twice a day and what they can eat in 1-2 minutes.

As for size they are all about 2". And I am planning on adding more rock. Going on a walk through the dry riverbed!


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Spitting food is the first symptom. Food sounds good, but I have no personal experience with it. I think you should cut back those feedings to 30-45 seconds. My male L. Hongi was lit up like a fire truck at 2". Any red starting to come in around the top of the head, face or breast? Females can be equally aggressive, IMO.


----------



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

They are all showing yellow on top fins. Nine on their chest. The one I think is a male will really flare when chasing the others.

I will cut back on feeding. Do you have a pic of your hongi?


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Yes I do.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?nomobile=1&f=9&t=287930


----------



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

Another update. I found the darker hongi dead on the overflow guard. I don't understand this. Before these hongi, I never lost a cichlid. I have had cichlids for 6 months now.

Any ideas? Are hongi a more sensitive mbuna? The yellow labs are doing great and so are the sailfin pleco and rainbow shark.

Should I wait a couple weeks before adding more hongi or will the two remaining fight too much?


----------



## Iggy Newcastle (May 15, 2012)

Are your fish still spitting food? If so, you need to address that.


----------



## ajramos92 (Sep 17, 2013)

Yes. Tomorrow I'm going to Lfs and asking what they feed. I am pretty sure it's flakes but I might try pellets. They still don't have anymore symptoms of bloat. It could be stress but the other fish are not agressive.


----------

