# Cryptoheros Nanoluteus Breeding...



## monisaab

Can I separate a pair of Cryptoheros Nanoluteus and put them in a 10G to try and breed them???


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## Fogelhund

The tank is far too small to provide any refuge should there be any pairing issues. You would really want a 30" long tank or bigger, to ensure the safety of each.


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## monisaab

ok... thanks Fogelhund...

I asked coz I have bred cons in a 10G and I thought these (Cryptoheros Nanoluteus) are milder then cons so would not have any real aggression issues with these...


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## CjCichlid

I would have to agree... I'd suggest a 20gal as the minimum.


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## monisaab

OK... Can't disagree with the experts so it will be 20 or bigger...


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## Chromedome52

For a young pair, a 10 is more than adequate. This species does not need a lot of space. I had them breed in a 10 with another pair and an extra male in the tank, and they did not have any problems. They are a very mild mannered species. However, as they grow, then yes, more space would be required, but even as fully grown adults, a 24" (15 or 20high)tank is plenty. Few people have actual experience with this species, which is a shame.

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I've been reading from computers where I could not log on (work! :wink: ).


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## Chromedome52

Thought I'd add some incentive, images of my pair.










Female in full regalia.









Female with her first batch of wigglers.







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## monisaab

thnks ChromeDome52...

They'll be going in the 10 G today...

Will keep you all posted...

Thanks again everyone for your inputs...


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## monisaab

A few pics of the pair... not as nice pics as Chromedome's pics though... looks as if I'll have to buy a DSLR and stop using my cell for the pics...


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## monisaab




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## Azedenkae

Yeah if they're a young pair, and they're already paired/are not very aggressive, you can do it easily in a 10G. In fact ime it's better because they'll have less choices of breeding spots and so they'll settle for one faster. But it really is best if they're an established pair. This must be assuming they're only there to breed, and they're small enough! Putting a pair of large fish in a small tank for an extended period of time is just wrong!

Although given that they're C. nanoluteus, size doesn't really matter that much in this case. XD


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## monisaab

they've settled down well in the tank and the female is now displaying an intense yellow color with dark nose and ear part on the head...

as for settling they have shown no interest whatsoever in the 2 pots that were in the tank and instead have settled under a rock...


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## Azedenkae

That's okay. XD It takes some time to decide. My pair of cichlids that breed in the 10g dug all over before settling for a flat rock after I removed the pots (after I realized I should not have them).


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## Chromedome52

I thought I had mentioned somewhere that the females like tight spots for the eggs. The wigglers in the flowerpot were moved there after they hatched, she actually spawned under a 3" wide by 1.5" high piece of broken flowerpot base, and she piled up gravel at the opening as well. The extra flowerpots will give them places to move the wigglers around and keep them well protected.

Watch for her staying under the rock all the time, from the color description she should be really close to spawning. Good luck!


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## monisaab

Yes they are under a rock that had fallen when I was transferring them to the tank... its one side is on a small piece of driftwood and is only over an inch high...

keeping my fingers crossed...


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## Jake Levi

This is one I amnot at all familiar with but they are very attractive, and interesting. I can see them happening in a fishroom near me.


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## monisaab

the female is guarding the eggs that she has in the pot...

will try and get some pics later today...


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## monisaab

Here you go... plz pardon the dirty glass, I didn't want to bug her...


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## Jake Levi

The male takes no part in guarding the nest?

Nice pics, thanks.


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## monisaab

He is nowhere to be seen....


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## Jake Levi

Now that is interesting. It will be more interesting when the fry are swimming about.


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## Azedenkae

Haha, nice! Doesn't look like a big batch, but definitely fertilized. Will have fries very soon.  Grats, truly. That was rather quick, from when you added them to getting eggs. XD


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## Chromedome52

Congratulations! :thumb: =D> I am surprised that she laid in the pot, but fish are individuals, and will do what they want! :roll:

As for the male not staying near the spawn, his job is territorial patrol. He watches the borders of the territory for potential invaders, so as to keep them from finding the eggs. Of course, when there's only the two fish in the tank, he's not very busy. Some species have trouble with this, and Papa needs something to flare at so that he doesn't get ornery with Mama. However, my experience was that the male Nano isn't that aggressive, so there shouldn't be any such problems.

Well done, raise them up and spread them about. Or as I used to say, "Breed 'em and seed 'em!" Just remember to keep a group of youngsters for your next generation of breeders; that was my mistake, and I had to obtain new stock from someone else.


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## monisaab

thanks Azedenkae... am keeping my fingers crossed...

You are right Chromedome52... the amount of time they spent under that rock made me think thats where they will lay eggs but when I woke up yesterday morning there she was in the pot with the eggs...

Do I need to get BBS for the fry or will they take Hikari first bites and Repashy???


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## monisaab

Today's pics...


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## Azedenkae

Going well. ;D I see that there's no white eggs.


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## monisaab

yep thankfully none so far...

so do they hatch in 48 hours or so???

and Do I need to get BBS for the fry or will they take Hikari first bites and Repashy???


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## Azedenkae

More or less, 48-72 hours.


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## Jake Levi

I am a strong believer in gut loaded BBS for fry, the others are good also, I prefer a varied diet, but the BBS several times a day,

Good luck, keep the pics coming. What are you using for camera? These are very good .


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## monisaab

ok... thanks...

lol... Jake... I am using my smartphone & I know the pics are lousy to say the least... :wink:


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## Jake Levi

Don't knock them, they are, thats the main thing, pretty impressive to me, I am comparing cameras, it will be, probably Dec, not getting any fish other then the goldfish I am using to cycle the filters with now, plan to add some Severums and Jack Dempseys in two weeks. By then I hope to have the 50s cycled and ready for 3-4 of each youngsters to grow out. Angels will come soon after. Streaked black and koi.

I am so fascinated by this Nano that I may well add a pair of them.


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## monisaab

Today's Pics...


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## Jake Levi

I think you are going to have a LOT of wigglers today ! Then the fun really begins ! Let the good times roll! opcorn:


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## monisaab

the female is taking them from the pot to the outside of the pot just next to the pot...

Will try and get a couple of pics...


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## Azedenkae

Lol, grats on the hatch. I believe Nanos do chew up food and spit it out for their fries, try that and see what happens.  Also still no sign of the male?


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## monisaab

the male is out and around the pot but the female does not allow him to get too close to the fry...


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## monisaab

Today's pics...


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## Azedenkae

Wrigglers!  Yay!


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## monisaab

:wink: :wink: :wink:


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## Jake Levi

So how are they doing today??

Keep those pics coming !

This beats the Dionne quints for those who remember them. opcorn:


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## monisaab

Here we go:


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## Jake Levi

I wish that you wernt so far away, I'd love to home 5-6 of them. Are you going to disperse them among American Cichlid Club members?


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## monisaab

Yes I will spread them Jake...

I have heard not so good things about the first batches so am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping I am able to grow at least some of them to a decent size...


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## Jake Levi

Thats good, so far so good with these. Keep the grocerys available, some new hatched baby brine probably sometime this week. Gotta keep these little beautys with us.


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## monisaab

Not yet free swimming but they are out of the pot now... I hope everyone can see the eye if not the whole fry... this is the limitation of the smartphone...


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## Jake Levi

Yup, can make out the eyes, pretty good detail for a smart phone.

This is a very well watched spawning !


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## shelzeya

Hi,

I am new to this forum- I found it because of this thread. I have four female (at least I think so) cryptoheros nanoluteus. When I got home today one of them was bright yellow! I don't see any eggs, and she doesn't seem to be guarding any spot in particular, although there is one spot under the side of a flower pot where she likes to go back to. My question is, does the bright yellow mean she is ready to spawn or that she already has? If she has then I obviously have at least one male. If not, does there have to be a male present for the yellow coloring to happen or can it happen at any time?

Great pictures by the way!

Thanks


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## monisaab

Hello,

Thanks...

Look at the Dorsal fins of the fish... the females have a black patch/spot on it and the males don't... that should help you know if all are females...


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## dsouthworth

The colors simply mean she is ready to spawn. Not necessarily that she already has. However if she has in fact dropped eggs, this does not mean that there needs to be a male in the tank. A member on here was talking about how he had two females (I've forgotten what species it was) and one of them dropped eggs every month for years.

Look at the dorsal fin and check if you're lucky enough to have a male. But if you haven't seen them hangout together all the time, you probably do have a group of females.


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## monisaab

Today... Hope you can see the fry...


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## monisaab

I hope they are visible now...


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## Jake Levi

How are they doing today?? They should be getting around well on their own now.


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## monisaab

I am sure everyone will be able to see them now...


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## Jake Levi

Very nice size ! Growing well !


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## monisaab

A short video...


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## Jake Levi

Great, these little guys, and gals, will be the most viewed of all nanos.


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## monisaab

exactly... that my point...

I am trying to get people interested in getting, keeping and breeding these beautiful fish...


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## Jake Levi

I hope that you can spread them all over, if you wernt so far away I would drive up, you're at least a 12 hour drive though. Spread some over west of you. Like Port Huron. They are well worth putting the effort in on them.


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## monisaab

I will surely try to spread them...


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## oconeefish

shelzeya said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am new to this forum- I found it because of this thread. I have four female (at least I think so) cryptoheros nanoluteus. When I got home today one of them was bright yellow! I don't see any eggs, and she doesn't seem to be guarding any spot in particular, although there is one spot under the side of a flower pot where she likes to go back to. My question is, does the bright yellow mean she is ready to spawn or that she already has? If she has then I obviously have at least one male. If not, does there have to be a male present for the yellow coloring to happen or can it happen at any time?
> 
> Great pictures by the way!
> 
> Thanks


I have a beautiful male Nanoluteus that badly needs a mate. If you or anyone else has a female to spare and can ship to Georgia please let me know!


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## monisaab

I have an extra female but I have never shipped...


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## oconeefish

monisaab said:


> I have an extra female but I have never shipped...


I see your in Canada. It would be too expensive to ship from Canada plus the government regulations pertaining to importing live fish. Also its my understanding overnight carriers in Canada will not accept live fish.

If I could find a female in the U.S.A. I would gladly provide a styrofoam shipping container, heat pack, etc., along with paying for the cost of the fish and shipping.


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## monisaab

Trying to understand the new photobucket...


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## monisaab

Today...


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## monisaab

Only 3 fry left, I don't know what happened but they kept disappearing... the score is 3 for the last week or so...




























The parents...


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## Jake Levi

Well, sorry to hear that, my 3 guesses, derived from Murphys Law are, 1. parents eating them, 2. water quality degradation, 3. not enough grocerys for the fry.

Or a combination. Fry can eat a surprising amount of food, and also foul the water rapidly. And first time parents can start picking them off. I'd move the parents if they are still in the ten gallon, do a water change by siphoning off the bottom once or twice a day, check parameters, temp, aeration, ph, nitrites etc.

Please keep us posted on whats happening.


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## Azedenkae

What a shame. :/ Oh wells, I'm sure the pair will breed again soon anyways.  Perhaps better luck with the second batch.


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## monisaab

Not that I have seen them eat them... but from what I have observed the parents get freaked out if someone goes near the tank quickly and they start swimming very quickly here & there and may be hurting the fry...


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## monisaab

Hi Guys & Gals...

I was wrong there are 4 fry not 3...


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## Jake Levi

They are keepers for sure!

They are survivors, the right stuff for whatever reasons that they survived.

Good luck with them and future fry.

The parents I suspect will do a good job with the next batch.

Jake


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## Azedenkae

Aye, they definitely have to be the best of the best to survive, whatever the causes of death were. XD

Keep on feeding them (maybe separate them?) and they'll grow into awesome lil' nanos in no time.


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## monisaab

Thanks Jake and Azedenkae...

I am planning to move so don't want to take them out yet but on the other hand I want to put them in a tank of their own...


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## Jake Levi

A tank of their own is best, I'd drain about half the water from the parents tank for the new one, bare bottom with some bunch plants in it and then add water each day until its filled, of course keep a heater and airstone/sponge filter going in it. The water change may well also stimulate the parents to spawn again. These little guys have the right stuff to survive and I emphasize that they really are keepers.


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## monisaab

3 transferred to a separate 10 gallon, could not catch the 4th as I did not want to upset the set-up/parents much... will try and catch the 4th one today...


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## TheFishGuy

I find it's easier to just catch and move the parents in situations like this. This is a cool fish, kept a male for the longest time after breeding them... He was a good fish... Died a couple of months ago...

I too bred them in a ten and after a few days of free swimming fry I move the parents to a fifteen... They spawned again then found myself with so many fry that I ended up culling most of them...

I keep mostly bare tanks with sponge filters so moving things around is very easy...

I also feed decapsulated brine shrimp eggs... By far the best and easiest most convenient food to feed fry...


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## monisaab

Were the Nanoluteus that you kept as shy as mine???

I would have to say they are the most shy fish I have ever kept...

Even the Cutteri that I have had for a few weeks are more outgoing then the Nanoluteus...


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## TheFishGuy

Mine were, but most of the cichlids I breed are because they're in a fish room not used to constant human interaction. I've got a 125 in the living room that certain fish go into for "social training". Between my wife feeding that tank, four kids and two dogs the fish that go into that tank come out action loving creatures with more people skills than a seasoned insurance salesman! I'm sure if the nanos I had we're to spend time in that tank they'd come out the same way!


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## BC in SK

Usually with shy fish...enough outgoing tankmates can make all the difference. But not always an option in a 10 gal. with a breeding pair.


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## TheFishGuy

While that is true in some instances if you're breeding cichlids the dithers you out in should be expendable. Expect losses... Dithers can even be other cichlids in cases where you're attempting to divert an aggressive male. I tend to use convict breeding pairs as dithers in such situations. There's a dual benifit. Not only are the convicts targets for an aggressive male but they'll also spawn in the tank and some aquarists theorize that the hormones produced by the breeding convicts will induce a spawn by others in the tank.


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## BC in SK

TheFishGuy said:


> some aquarists theorize that the hormones produced by the breeding convicts will induce a spawn by others in the tank.


IMO, that is bologne :lol: There might be something to competiveness between pairs that might induce spawning innitially......but as someone that has kept multiple pairs in a community tank for many, many years, what i typically find is that one pair will often take over eventually, and the other pairs either stop breeding, or breed infrequently. Just an example: I removed my breeding sal pair from my 180 gal. and replaced with a male and female convict. With in days my blackbelts paired up and spawned, then right after the jewels.....neither of which were anywhere near spawning with the sals in the tank. Took a few months for the cons to pair up and really establish......once they started breeding, that was it for the jewels breeding; BB are never even a pair, let alone close to breeding.

As far as tankmates being expendable, I generally think they shouldn't be. I can understand with an uncommon, rare in the hobby, or hard to breed fish.....then what ever it takes to suceed. But I think if your losing a lot 'dithers' then probably it wasn't a good choice for a tankmate, at least in that size of tank with that cichlid. By outgoing, I meant confident and not scared.


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## TheFishGuy

Experiences differ.


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## monisaab

I don't have convicts but I now have Cutteri Cichlids... should I put them in the 10 G with a pair of Nanoluteus???


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128

monisaab said:


> I don't have convicts but I now have Cutteri Cichlids... should I put them in the 10 G with a pair of Nanoluteus???


I wouldn't for several reasons.

#1 Too small of a tank
#2 the threat of the two species crossing

You have had success with the nanos. I really wouldn't change anything. You could add some dithers like swordtails or something if you want. Otherwise, I would leave them be. I would just divide the pair if they need to be seperated and just feed them a variety of foods and do water changes. They will spawn very soon again!


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## TheFishGuy

In my experience if your intent is to breed the cichlid the group or pair should have its own tank. When breeding species that have a reputation of killing their mates I tend to break that rule by adding the convicts. It's worked for species in the parachromis complex many times. I'm implementing the same process right now with a group of seiboldi. So far the male is only concentrating on the convicts, which is perfect. There's also a ton of obvious territories for the pairs...


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## monisaab

I have put some endlers in with the fry for the time being...


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## monisaab

Another pair in my community tank has spawned and I see free-swimming fry in a corner...

What can I do???


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128

Congrats on the spawn! 

I assume you are talking about what you can do to help the fry survive....If so, There is only a few things you can do. Remove the fry or divide the pair/fry from the other fish.

If it was me I would remove the fry.


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## monisaab

LoL...

I too am thinking about removing the fry but for that I will have to rehome some fish to other tanks to get a tank empty...

OK let me start working on the project...

BTW how do I take out the fry???


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## CiChLiD LoVeR128

I use brine shrimp nets if they are really young or regular nets if they are a couple of weeks old but I have heard people use syphon hoses.


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## monisaab

well I don't have a shrimp net and they are a couple of days free-swimming I guess, I've seen them for the first time today...


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## monisaab

I decided not to take out the fry... they are roaming on the substrate under the watchful eyes of their MOM and all the other fish are in the top half of the tank...

am keeping my fingers crossed...


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## Jake Levi

I havent kept these yet, but intend to, I am getting a few 15s soon from a store thats redoing it tanks, hoping for four, they are the longer ones, should be excellent for the small cichlids.

Ditto on the decapsulated shrimp eggs, more food for the money then anything else I have found, right there with gut loaded new hatched brine shrimp. But a bit smaller and easier to get new fry started on.


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## monisaab

All the best Jake...

Yes I agree, have got them and have started feeding them to the fry...


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## Jake Levi

Thanks, keep the photos coming, really like to see how the little guys are doing.


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## monisaab

Both of these parents are protecting the fry... unlike the previous pair where just the mother was doing the caring...


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## monisaab

The new batch with parents:


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## Jake Levi

Great ! Congratulations, keep those little beauties going !


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## Azedenkae

Grats! Haha yeah great to see both parents in there this time.  Dad was lazy last time, prolly got yelled at by ma enough to now grudgingly take care of the kids.


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## monisaab

thanks...

thats a different pair Azedenkae...


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## Azedenkae

Oh, my bad. >.< Haven't been able to follow the thread. .< /superembarassedrightnow


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## monisaab

LoL...

No need to be embarrassed...


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## monisaab

A few pictures, apologies for the dirty glass (as always :wink: )


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