# About Viejas.



## PepoLD

Since I was hijacking "Parachromis or Nandopsis Wet Pet?" thread i made a new one for this! 
(sorry about that Bkeen)

TFG can you share us experiences with V. Argentea (And other Viejas as well)? I've barely seen people keeping Viejas! + You seem like a reliable source for personal experiences with them


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## gnomemagi

I'm not TFG, but I do own a Vieja.

I believe I own a Vieja Bifasciatus, althought it was labeled as Vieja Synspila. I'll have to see once it reaches adult coloration.

My fish is about 6.5" TL now - and that is growth from 1" TL in about 6 or 7 months. They grow fast. It is developing a nuchal hump so I believe it to be a he. It is currently living in a 100 gallon 48x24x24 with a 5" Oscar I rescued. I don't know if this stocking will last in the long term, as I know big male Vieja get large and can be aggressive, but at the moment they enjoy each other's company and there is not been any aggression between the two.

I love this fish - they are speckled with so many different colors and seem (at least to me so far) to have a relatively calm attitude around other cichlid species.


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## SinisterKisses

What kind of information are you looking for? I've owned a few Vieja in the past, and currently have a V. fenestratus, V. argentea, and V. regani.


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## Bkeen

PepoLD said:


> Since I was hijacking "Parachromis or Nandopsis Wet Pet?" thread i made a new one for this!
> (sorry about that Bkeen)
> 
> TFG can you share us experiences with V. Argentea (And other Viejas as well)? I've barely seen people keeping Viejas! + You seem like a reliable source for personal experiences with them


No problem- It's good to see people excited about fish! :thumb:


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## PepoLD

SinisterKisses said:


> What kind of information are you looking for? I've owned a few Vieja in the past, and currently have a V. fenestratus, V. argentea, and V. regani.


Well i was thinking about any advice to introduce people into Viejas, since there's so little info about them..

IDK, landscapes, tankmates, feeding habits, tank sizes, growth, parental behavior, experiences, etc etc.. 
I'm very surprised that Viejas are relatively "easy" to find where i live, (getting a petro for example is impossible..) and noone is into them.

I'm thinking to set one of my tanks for Viejas... then i saw this post:



TheFishGuy said:


> I have five argentea spread out in different tanks... Little buggers like to kill each other! LOL


 and realized i know NOTHING about them!!


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## bernie comeau

PepoLD said:


> IDK, landscapes, tankmates, feeding habits, tank sizes, growth, parental behavior, experiences, etc etc..


I have kept both Vieja maculicauda (Black belt) and Veija synspilla (firehead or Quetzal cichlid) for many years, in cichlid community tanks with a variaty of tankmates. IME, balckbelt is a much more aggressive species in comparison to quetzal cichlids, although quetzals are often very aggressive towards members of their own species. In general, Veija species tend to have high conspecefic aggression and can often be difficult to house with other kinds of Veija.

They will make use of caves somewhat, however even as young juvies they tend to swim around more in the open space. Caves are best low to the ground and there should be a lot of upper area uncluttered for swimming space. These are CA cichlids that WILL make use of upper space, even as young fish, so a deeper tank is defiantely not wasted space for these fish. Though of course the length and width of the tank are always some what more important then depth. They can get BIG, so a tank of at least 75 gallons, preferrably much larger, is recommended.
Generally, males are not that compatible with females. Bred Black belts (BB) three times so far. When I housed a young pair together in a 6 ft. 125 gal., the male BB was very hyper-aggressive. He threatened with one pair of cons on one side, then threatened with the other pair on the other side, occasionaly threatening with a male jewel in another corner when the jewel happened to be brave enough. Then proceeded to chase the female BB around the tank. The whole process would repeat itself over and over, all day long, with the exception of a few breif points in time during the day, the male would accept the female -----as long as she was willing to help threaten/fight against the cons or clean a rock she was accepted, otherwise it was 'get lost'.
My third breeding occurred with a larger, older female and much younger smaller male. Actually not that common with CA cichlids for this to happen. The female paired with the younger, smaller male the very day they spawned but gave him the boot shortly after he fertilized the eggs. So essentially she used him just to fertilize the eggs, nothing more :lol:

Generally I have found BB to be more tolerant and far more forgiving of convicts then they are towards some of the other larger CA.Though there definately can still ba alot of aggression between the two, the vast majority of it is threats. My male sal and male black belt for example, probably would have killed each other if it weren't for my big Tilapia zilli controlling the tank.The high speed hits that he dished out on the sal, with scales flying in the water, he never did anything remotely like it towards the cons. fortunately my T. zilli didn't allow anyone to act tough in his prescence. Similarily my female BB absolutely hates my dovii X festae hybrid --- nails it at high speed, chased it non-stop at times, and even charged into caves made of heavy rock, that she did not fit into, trying to get at it. they are now housed in different tanks :lol: IME and IMO, BB tend to be more tolerant and less competitve towards the Cryptoheros/Archocentrus types then they would be towards some of the other larger CA. Probably because of their smaller size and more rock inhabiting lifestyle(?). Large mature BB are not inclined to eat smaller fish nor do they tend to bully smaller fish (unless of course the smaller fish are claiming space)but can be very aggressive towards any fish that they see as a competitor. But V. synspillum will probably get a long with just about any fish ( other then it's own species or possibly other Veijas).


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## RyanR

I loved the black belt that we had. She actually got along OK with our peaceful SA's... and would actually pal around with a large male severum. Occasionally she'd stare down the chocolate cichlid. She was maybe 6-8" when we found her half dead one morning... later that day she was fully dead. 

Bernie's comments are 100% true, and worth heading.

If we didn't have a gorgeous Texas cichlid "wet pet" going on, I'd get another Vieja/Theraps/Paratheraps in a heart beat. Not sure what species, but they're all amazing fish that are stunning when happy.

-Ryan


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## PepoLD

whow great experiences 

they can live with Cichlasoma then?

how many fishes you had in that 125gal bernie?


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## bernie comeau

PepoLD said:


> they can live with Cichlasoma then?
> 
> how many fishes you had in that 125gal bernie?


If by then term "Cichlasoma" your referring to other CA cichlids, then yes, though I think some species will tend to work better then others. If your using the term Cichlasoma in it's current correct useage, to refer to SA port acaras then I would say yes as well. 20 years ago I kept male BB with a old large male port acara in a 180 gal.. They were the only males in the tank and defended territory from each other. They were serious rivals although I would think that in the majority of cases, mixing these 2 kinds of fishes would generally work better. Later on I kept this male BB with male trimac, amongst other tankmates -----can't say it didn't work but I certainly wouldn't do it again in that size of a tank :lol:

I had quite a few fishes for over a year in the 125 gal. though it was not meant to be permanent. 2 BB, 4 cons, 2 very young salvini, 1 red tailed shark, 1 pleco, 2 jewel cichlids, 3 gold gouramis. When I moved I temporarily shut down a 75 and 100 gal., so I gave my male BB to the pet shop and favoured the younger generation of BB.


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## SinisterKisses

The different species have very different personalities. A few species are easier to keep with other fish as they aren't so aggressive. Argentea, on the other hand, are quite aggressive particularly to their own kind. My fenestratus female is fairly laid back and docile, but does have some aggression and attitude.


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## oldcatfish

I pretty much agree with most of what Bernie said, and I've also only kept and bred the two species.

My Blackbelts completely ignored most small non-cichlid species, but tended to be harder on smaller cichlids than the others have found. I currently have one male BB about 9 inches now, and I had to remove him from my 125 CA community due to aggression. He relentlessly attacked every fish in that tank except my female RD---because she was the dominant fish. My BB killed a Jewel cichlid, a female firemouth, and would have killed a male Salvini, if I hadn't intervened.
I've since moved him to a 75 gallon with 10 giant danios, two small "clown plecos," and a small Synodontus catfish---He completely ignores all of his tankmates. This male is a bit more aggressive than the past ones that I've kept, but all of the BB cichlids have been more aggressive than the V. Synspilum.


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## PepoLD

oh... so what size would be good to keep more than a couple of viejas?

as Cichlasoma i was refering to " Beani, Salvini, Trimac, JD "group 

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/results.php?genus=42

how about Temporalis (Chocolate) ? is a good tank mate for them?
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=520

great info! please keep posting


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## RyanR

It was odd that our BB only really had a problem with the chocolate cichlid. Even when he was quite a bit smaller than she was. Fortunately, BB mouths are pretty small, while chocolates can almost open the entire front of their head... so chocolate would just nudge her backwards when they'd have a spat. :lol:

One thing to consider aside from killing tankmates is coloration when aggressive. Our BB was absolutely stunning to look at in her normal colors, with rosy cheeks to boot. When she was getting her territoriality on, she'd turn on a lot of blacks in her face and around the eyes, and would look positively scary. In short, while a BB may physically be OK with some other cichlids, they may not a"esthetically" be OK. 

-Ryan


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## PepoLD

oh.. nice 

so Viejas are agressive against other kind of viejas or just with similar coloration V.? like if i put a 7" fenestratus with 4 2" Argenteas odds are he will kill the lil guys?


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## SinisterKisses

These are big fish. In order to get a few of them in a tank, you are going to need a BIG tank.


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## PepoLD

biggest i have is a 600lts tank (about 160gal) made it 2.4mt x 50 x 50
how many can i have in there? id love to see full pics of your tanks setups )


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## PepoLD

i wanted as tankmates: 2 salvinis, 1 p. frediestralli, 1 red jewel and a trimac that came out to be a flowerhorn. (alredy have this guys on one of my showtanks)


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## SinisterKisses

Your tank is not big enough to have multiple Veija on top of a flowerhorn I'm afraid. At least in my opinion, it's way too small.


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## PepoLD

How many would it be wise?

my pref. order is Argentea - Quetzal - Windowed

I can leave the Trimac-horn where he is, i just thought it would get along fine with this guys hehe


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## bernie comeau

It's a good sized tank, just a couple inches short of 8 ft. (94" x 20" x 20"). You should give it a a try. I managed to keep male trimac with both male BB and male synspilum, amongst other tankmates, for many years in a 180 gal. (6' X 2' x 2'). A certain amount of luck, yes, but that is true anytime you keep aggressive cichlids.

If your interested in those 3 Veija/paratheraps, I think yiou should start with 1 of each. If something proves to be too aggressive, or gets picked on excessively, remove it and give it to the LFS.


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## PepoLD

hm.. okay, ill try that, only missing the Quetzal one now. 

how many Dithers i can have with them?

i was thinking salvinis/freddys or Jewels/convicts

just got the Argentea and the Windowed, missing the Quetzal..

but they are all juvies so the tank looks.. empty! ._.


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## PepoLD

Okay i put my Red Blood Parrot with them since he is harmless ... 

here are the pics of my 2 new viejas!

I got the small windowed instead of the big in the other pics, so is a bit mauled ( i think the huge one was harassing mine)










































V. Argentea was a pain to take a pic.. was hiding all time hehe ill get some better shoots tomorrow


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## PepoLD

Does it helps to have multiple females in the same tank to spread agression like in Africans? like keeping 1 male and 3 females?

Is it true that males have blue eyes and females yellowish?


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## TheFishGuy

This is a great thread, I don't have the time at the moment to read it and post so I'm subscribing and will take some time soon!


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## PepoLD

PepoLD said:


> Does it helps to have multiple females in the same tank to spread agression like in Africans? like keeping 1 male and 3 females?
> 
> Is it true that males have blue eyes and females yellowish?


anyone?

I've noticed the V. Fenestratus (5") is the shy now... he thinks like a billion times before eating, while the V argentea (1") rushes like mad for food, is this normal? nothing related to agression, but iÃ‚Â´ve noticed this week the fene is very laid back even tho is the "big" one in the tank..

What else can i add? Blood Parrot is still with this guys.. but I think ill put it back to that showtank..
and the tank still looks EMPTY with only 2 guys in (specially because they are still juvies)


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## gnomemagi

Just gotta wait for them to grow and fill out a bit 

I know how you feel about the shy fish - my female GT just stares at food for twenty seconds, mouths it, then spits it back out. Frankly, I don't know how it is alive. I've tried various pellets / bloodworms / shrimp and she just doesn't like much of anything. I bought her at 3", she is 3.5". I bought my Vieja at the same time at 2"... he's now 7.5". :roll:


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## gage

you want more then a couple Vieja huh? expect a >8ft tank then


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## PepoLD

mine is 8ft long =) no couples yet only a 1" V. Argentea and a 5" V. Fenestratus, still trying to figure out how many i can fit in there..


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## PepoLD

I found this nice picture with many species of Viejas (Props to Lhada? that's what i read)


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## gnomemagi

That is really, really helpful.

Makes it quite easy to see that the cichlid I purchased as "Synspilus" is in fact, as I thought, a Bifasciatum. Looks exactly like my fish.

Oh well, he's still a badass fish.


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## PepoLD

Yesterday i went ahead and bought that big V. Fene too! 

















cell pics so quality is horrible! 

I can't find Synspilum anywhere... good game, Im in Mexico and i cant find tacos.. Oh well, yesterday i bought on MercadoLibre (our Ebay) a pair of Vieja Regani instead *shrug*

I think ill give up on Synspilums for the time being


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