# Amonia levels extremely high



## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

Hi, just recently setup my aquarium about three months ago. I started off with a little starter fish(not african cichlid) and a pleco. They both lived in my aquarium for about a month and a half. Then I decided to start african cichlid tank. I started out with adding three african cichlids. Then two weeks later I bout another two african cichlids along with a test kit. I have owned aquariums in the past and never tested the water and I have had them workout on their own for two years. This time, I decided to get a test kit. When I tested my water the first time my amonia level was around 0.50 ppm and it ihas slowly risen to between 4.0-8.0ppm. My nitrite level is 0ppm and my nitrate level used to be very high ( 40-80ppm) but it has dropped to 0ppm. My PH is around 8.4. Currently I still have the pleco, and five afrcan cichlids (Tanganyika's). I have a 40G tank and lately I have been doing about 10-15 gallon water changes every other day. The Amonia still has not gone down. I also use API amonia bloc every other day to keep the amonia non toxic. Also, in the past week, my water has been getting extremely cloudy and the top has a cloudy/milky looking layer. I am using two bubble airstones, I have a fluval 204 filter, and I currently have fake plants and a fake rock cave. I am only feeding them twice a day and the past few days I started feeding them once a day because of the amonia. Please inform me of what is going on? My fish look entirely healthy and they are always active and hungry. I just want to find out asap so I do not lose my fish. Sorry for the long description I just wanted to give you all of the information on my tank's setup. Thanks.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Ok, I'm guessing from what you've described that the tank has gone into or back to a state of what's called 'new tank syndrome'. I know it's not a brand new tank, and should be cycled, but obviously it's not. I'd treat this as starting ntew, since that's what it seems to be doing.

First, a question.

What type of filter(s) and what type of maintenance has been done. Please be specific about what's been rinsed/replace, etc.

Have you made any changes to the tank since it's been set up in the way of decor, substrate, etc?

Can you post a full shot pic of the tank?

What I'd recommend.

Cut feeding back to once lightly every 2-3 days, no more. Yes, they'll be more than fine. The ammonia is a much bigger danger to them than missing a meal.

Do 50% water changes at least once per day. If you can do one morning and one later, do so. Try to get the ammonia level down to 1ppm or so.

Don't make any changes to the system right now.

Don't clean the filters at this point.

I'm not sure what the API ammonia bloc is as I can find no info on it. I'd suggest using the API Ammolock and maybe that's what you are referring to. You are right to use something to detox the ammonia. What you don't want to use is an ammonia remover, as they work too slowly.

Post back as soon as you can with answers to the questions.


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## frank1rizzo (Mar 14, 2005)

Your tank is not cycled. Maybe the bacteria died off, or it never grew in the first place.

Can you get a hold of some used filter media from a friend or the fish store? This will jump start your cycle?


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

THanks. Yes its ammolock I was referring to. I added some rocks that were concrete sample rocks. I removed them though because I thought this was the cause for high ammonia. Now theyve been out for two days and *** done a water change since then. Its still as high as before. I have carbon and small white blocks im my cartridges. I rinsed them off a few weeks ago because my output hose was barely flowing. Now it is flowing strong again. Now that u ask that question, maybw it is because I cleaned my filters and rinsed the carbon, pads, and white blocks. If my tank is starting a new cycle, what exactly do I do? Will the cloudiness kill my fish? And is my amonia level extremely dangerous? Thanks for the responses


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## Myrock (Mar 7, 2010)

I agree with the above comments. You the algae eater probably didnt help because there wasnt enough algae for him to go potty a lot and the other fish wasnt enough to help create the amount of bacteria you needed for more fish. Do the 50 water change like Prov said -or Find a pet sore with no sick fish and see if they have a sponge filter like Frank said -or get some Bio in a bottle. The bio in a bottle isnt a hundred % but I heard on here Dr. Tim has good stuff. If you dont have time to order then find what you can at the LPS.


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## Myrock (Mar 7, 2010)

Ok I just read your comment. Cleaning the filter can cause this problem.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)




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## Myrock (Mar 7, 2010)

I had an outside filter that I cleaned before and when I turned it on white calcium looking stuff came out and the water turned mucus looking. That is harmless I believe. But you did this early so it probably killed your bacteria.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

tjc348 said:


> THanks. Yes its ammolock I was referring to. I added some rocks that were concrete sample rocks. I removed them though because I thought this was the cause for high ammonia. Now theyve been out for two days and I've done a water change since then. Its still as high as before. I have carbon and small white blocks im my cartridges. I rinsed them off a few weeks ago because my output hose was barely flowing. Now it is flowing strong again. Now that u ask that question, maybw it is because I cleaned my filters and rinsed the carbon, pads, and white blocks. If my tank is starting a new cycle, what exactly do I do? Will the cloudiness kill my fish? And is my amonia level extremely dangerous? Thanks for the responses


The rocks wouldn't have been the cause of the ammonia. Too aggressive of a filter cleaning would be the reason.

If the flow had slowed that dramatically, it suggests over feeding.

Yes, that ammonia level is potentially dangerous.

What to do.

Aggressive water changes as suggested previously. Vacuum any solids while you're at it, but don't get too aggressive with that. Do a bit at a time.

Don't clean the filters for now, or until you're past this. Well past this, like 30-60 days. If properly feeding, the filter shouldn't need it.

Continue with the Ammolock.

If you can get hold of some media from an established filter (known good disease free), then add it to your filter. Otherwise, consider one of the bacteria in a bottle products.

Cloudiness is not hazardous to the fish, ignore it.

Test daily for ammonia and nitrite and try to keep both down to 1ppm or below.

Actually I think it's been a combination of the filter cleaning and overfeeding. Five fish should be manageable through this if you don't overfeed. If it were my tank, I wouldn't feed at all until ammonia was brought down to 1ppm or less. Then feedings every 3 days until the tank was cycled again. Then a light filter cleaning after another 30 days.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

The tank looks fine as far as I can see. Filtration inflow and return are good, the air stone will help. Decor isn't excessive. I'd vacuum around the rocka a bit when doing water changes. Don't tinker at all by rearranging anythhing. Let things settle and get re-established.

It needs a background, by the way. I know, that's the least of your worries right now.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

ok, Thank you. So is it safe for me to put the Concrete sample rocks back in to my tank? They are made from concrete but they are supposed to look like stone. They are used one sample panels to advertise stone products. I would like to put them back in if all possible because they looked nice and gave my fish plenty of places to hide, considering I have one fish that constantly picks on the others. Last question, Once my tank is established and is balanced out, how often should I feed my fish (safely)


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

I just now read your post. So I guess it is not safe to put my rocks back in? they were in my tank for about three weeks so I would think they have more bacteria on them than what is in my tank right now.

I know I need a background I took mine off to clean behind it. lol

And what do you mean by vaccumn? I do my water changes with a 1 gallon bottle and continue to dump them into a five gallon bucket.

With the vacumn, do you have to syphen it? suck through the hose and it starts vacumning? Because I have a gravel vacumn thing that I got two years ago with one of my tanks but i never used it.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I'd not make any changes/additions to the tank right now. Might be fine, but that's just me. Up to you.

I feed all my fish once per day, but it's more about the amount than the frequency. You'll get differing views and there's no one right answer, but I think feeding heavily twice per day is more than they need. And it can lead to some serious maintenance requirements. If you power feed, then you'll need to power clean. I've done that when gowing out fry. Fish can become overweight from over feeding. I've seen fat fish. Even if fit and trim, there's only so much that the body can use, and the rest is excreted as waste. If you feed lightly, you can feed more often, but by lightly I mean just enough so that each gets some without gorging themselves. But all that is a generallization. There may be times when it's best to feed more often, so I"m just speaking to your situation. Some of it depends on the food as well. I feed a very nutritious food. I know that if each fish gets a few pellets, at least, per day, they'll do fine and thrive. Will they set size records? No, but that's never my goal.



> they were in my tank for about three weeks so I would think they have more bacteria on them than what is in my tank right now.


As long as they didn't dry out. If they were just pulled and are still damp, then yes there are potential advantages to adding them back. If they've dried out, the bacteria are dead.



> And what do you mean by vaccumn? I do my water changes with a 1 gallon bottle and continue to dump them into a five gallon bucket.
> 
> With the vacumn, do you have to syphen it? suck through the hose and it starts vacumning? Because I have a gravel vacumn thing that I got two years ago with one of my tanks but i never used it.


Gravel vac's are available that are basically a wide tube stuck onto the end of a vinyl hose. You work the tube around the gravel and it pulls the solids out, while leaving the gravel behind. Sounds like that's what you have. I'd break it out use it for your water changes.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Another thought about feeding. With gravel in the tank, you'll need to feed slowly so that it gets eaten before settling into the gravel. I'm guessing when you use the gravel vac, you'll see clouds of dark stuff being pulled out of it. Again, don't worry about getting it all in one water change. Work it out over a few days time.

At some point down the road, you might want to consider sand instead of gravel, but now isn't the time to make that change unless you were in a position to get some filter media or a bottled bacteria product. There are pros and cons to making the change now, if interested.

Which tanganyikans do you have, btw?


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

Sorry, I thought that I had tanganyikan cichlids. I have Malwai Cichlids. I have a yellow one, blue with some dark stripes, an orange one, yellow and black striped one, and a larger one that does not have a while lot of color to it but has white stripes.

I have heard that sand will keep the ph balanced out. So will crushed coral? I would like to change out my gravel for a sand or crushed coral. One, because I prefer the look of sand. two, because it supposible keeps the PH balanced.

My dad is going to stop by one of our local fish stores after he gets off work. He is going to give me a call when he gets there so I can describe to him what type of filter pad/ sponge I am looking for. This store only specializes in aquatics and they have a lot of fish tanks that are usually very clean. They are known to have healthy fish, so hopefully they will have a filter pad/sponge that has established bacteria.

What are the pros of changing from gravel to sand right now? I may ask my dad to pick me up some bags of sand. What kind would you recommend? Also, any colors that would look good with a natural looking stone?

Again, thanks for your help.

and my name is also Tim haha


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

The rocks that I had removed from my tank the other day are still darkish in color. They appear to still have moisture inside of them. I would assume that they are probably safe to put back in my tank.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

The reason I said that I think the concrete rocks were the cause for high ammonia is because I took two of the larger rocks out of my tank and put them in a bucket. I filled the bucket up with water and after about ten minutes I tested the water in the bucket for amonia. It did not detect any ammonia in the water. I let the rocks sit in the bucket for a day and checked the water in the bucket again. It showed my amonia was very high. Is this from the rocks?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> My dad is going to stop by one of our local fish stores after he gets off work. He is going to give me a call when he gets there so I can describe to him what type of filter pad/ sponge I am looking for. This store only specializes in aquatics and they have a lot of fish tanks that are usually very clean. They are known to have healthy fish, so hopefully they will have a filter pad/sponge that has established bacteria.


Doesn't hurt to ask, but I've not heard of any shops giving this stuff out, and they may give him a strange look or try to sell him something else. 

I haven't seen sand do anything toward buffering my water. Theoretically true, but in practice, not so much, at least IME.

The pros of changing to sand now in combination with seeding the biofiltration is that you can get past re-establishing the tank now, rather than getting things going again, just to change out all the gravel and risk disrupting things again. Things are pretty much disrupted now. I wouln't do it if you can't seed, as there will undoubtedly be some bacteria on the gravel that you'll lose.

I like light colored sand, but just my personal preference.



> The reason I said that I think the concrete rocks were the cause for high ammonia is because I took two of the larger rocks out of my tank and put them in a bucket. I filled the bucket up with water and after about ten minutes I tested the water in the bucket for amonia. It did not detect any ammonia in the water. I let the rocks sit in the bucket for a day and checked the water in the bucket again. It showed my amonia was very high. Is this from the rocks?


In light of this, don't add the rocks until more testing can be done, but I've never heard of rocks being the source of ammonia. Double check the test and the kits. I have heard of concrete raising alkalinity and pH. I think I'd find some different rocks. Landscape supply yards have some real nice ones cheap.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

Ok, so my dad said that they did not have any filter pads at the fish store. The guy gave him a bottle that has live bacteria in it. Will this take down my ammonia down? I did a 50% water change about an hour ago. Will it be okay to do another one in 6 hours from now?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Depends what it is. Some is more effective than others. Before you open it, post here. If it's one of the known useless products, I'd return it for a refund. I told you they'd manage to sell him something. 



> Will it be okay to do another one in 6 hours from now?


If the fish weren't stressed out by it, yes do another. Everybody's water is different. Do what they can handle to get those levels down.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

The bottle I got is Tetra SafeStart. It says that it lowers ammonia and nitrite levels and prevents new tank syndrome. Patented Bio-Spira bacter


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## AZcichlidfreak (Nov 16, 2010)

tjc348 said:


> The bottle I got is Tetra SafeStart. It says that it lowers ammonia and nitrite levels and prevents new tank syndrome. Patented Bio-Spira bacter


That is a good brand that many people on here have had good success with. The one thing I would recommend is do the water change before you add the SafeStart. Then start dosing the tank as recommended on the bottle.
GoodLuck.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Agreed, that is one that folks here have had good luck with. Are you changing out the gravel?


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## Myrock (Mar 7, 2010)

If you change anything do it before you add the bio. Do a water change and follow the instructions. The ammonia readings will still be high but you need it to feed the good bio germs. after a while it will go down


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

I changed the gravel to argonited ( I think thats the word) sand. It is mainly for reef tanks and it also said good for african cichlid tanks. I rinsed the sand thoroughly, removed fish, let the water settle a bit and then did a 50 percent water change. I also went to a landscaping supply yard and got rocks. I washed the rocks off really well and added them to the tank while switching over to sand. I figured what would it hurt? The decor I had in their before really didnt have much nacteria build up, if any at all. Most of the bacteria build up I would assume is within the filter. I checked my amonia a few hours after the change and it lowered to about 3ppm (it was between 5-8 before). Im assuming that I should keep doing 50 percent water changes as much as possible without hurting the fish(2x a day)? Also, should I get more bacteria in a bottle since I did such a drastic change? I used a 30 gallon treatment bottle the other day. I will add a pic of the tank asap


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

I took this picture this morning, its been about 10 hours since the change over. The water is still a little bit stirred up but its not too bad.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> I should keep doing 50 percent water changes as much as possible without hurting the fish(2x a day)?


I'd do water changes until you get ammonia at or below 1ppm, then add the safestart. Otherwise, you're just spending a lot on the safestart. 1-2 more changes today should do it. Then add another bottle and follow directions, but don't trust. If it's not working, you may have to go back to water changes. Resolve not to feed for the next couple days while you're getting this going.

Sounds like you're doing all the right things. Once it gets squared away and bacteria are established, it should be trouble free going forward.

Keep us posted, tank looks nice.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

oK, so I did a water change 5 hours ago and my amonia has dropped to 1ppm or a little below. I'm still going to do another water change in a few hours and then add the safestart.

Does you know how long it will take for the ammonia to go away on its own? Therefore, how long does it take for the bacteria to develop? And if I stop doing the water changes after today is the ammonia going to go back up?

I figure that I will just continue to put ammo lock in the tank for as long as there is ammonia.

Thanks for the help


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

> oK, so I did a water change 5 hours ago and my amonia has dropped to 1ppm or a little below. I'm still going to do another water change in a few hours and then add the safestart.


Sounds fine, then follow the safestart instructions. If it works, ammonia should drop within a few days. Then monitor nitrite.



> And if I stop doing the water changes after today is the ammonia going to go back up?


Yes, but if you're going real easy on the feeding, it should be a slow rise. You don't have many fish.



> I figure that I will just continue to put ammo lock in the tank for as long as there is ammonia.


That's correct. Let's see if the safestart is going to work for you.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

MY nitrate level is 0. What would I do if my nitrites went up?


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## AZcichlidfreak (Nov 16, 2010)

tjc348 said:


> MY nitrate level is 0. What would I do if my nitrites went up?


It's not really a matter of if but when your nitrites start going up. Its just part of the cycling process. You will want to continue doing water changes to keep the nitrites below 1ppm and you can use a product like Prime that will neutralize the ammonia and the nitrites. They will still show up when you test but will not be harmful to your fish.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

THanks, so about how long will it be until the cycle is over and the ammonia goes down for good?


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## Myrock (Mar 7, 2010)

Go a month. Anything shorter is a risk for recycle. The bottle may say a week. But go a month. Did I say ammonia was good for the germs? I meant the other stuff........lol


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

Your cycling is done when ammonia and nitrite peak and then drop to 0. The time frame can vary depending on how well safestart works. Don't test for nitrate right now. No need. When ammonia drops to 0, then you'll see nitrite rising because the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite are now doing their job. Then you have to wait for the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate to build in numbers so they can adequately do their job and keep nitrite down to 0. Do water changes to deal with nitrite just as you're doing to deal with ammonia. The detox products like Prime and Ammolock are good to use as well.

Let us know how it goes as I'm interested to see how safestart does for you.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

Ok, so I had a little delay on treating my tank. But last night (about 24 hours ago) I did a 50% water change. I tested my amonia today and it is between 0.25-0.50 ppm. I just tested my nitrite level and it has raised to 0.25-0.50 ppm. I just put the entire bottle of safestart bacteria into my aquarium earlier today. So I am assuming that my tank has begun it's cycle since my nitrite level has gone up. A few weeks ago my nitrite was 0. I am continuing to treat my tank with the API ammo lock and have fed my fish very lightly about once every three days.

I am hoping to God that this will all balance out and amonia will go down for good.

I will keep everyone updated on my tank's status.

Thanks everyone for your help. If I didn't get your guy's opinions I probably would have killed my fish by now.


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## Myrock (Mar 7, 2010)

Keep updating and let prov356 guide you through. The good news is getting started is the toughest part of keeping fish. Make it through this and your on your way. Read the info in the library. Lots of good info.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

Ok, so I just checked my amonia and nitrites. Amonia level is dropped all the way to 0ppm and so has my nitrites.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

My nitrate level is somewhere around 40 ppm. Does anyone know how I can get that down?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

tjc348 said:


> My nitrate level is somewhere around 40 ppm. Does anyone know how I can get that down?


Sound real good. Do a water change to bring nitrates down. Try say 25% and test again for ammonia and nitrite after 24 hours. You can then work into a regular water change routine and you should be good to go. Well done.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks. So I guess that the safestart did the job. How regular should I do a water change? about once a week?


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

tjc348 said:


> Thanks. So I guess that the safestart did the job. How regular should I do a water change? about once a week?


The safestart probably helped, yes.

No one right answer for water changes, but start with 25% per week or and measure nitrates. If you can keep nitrates at 20 or so, then your water change schedule is good. Many end up going over the 25% per week because of the way we stock our tanks.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

As of now, I have a very aggressive fish in my tank. All of a sudden he thinks he owns the entire thing and will not let any other fish have their space. He will literally chase each and every one of them around the tank as if he is going for a kill. In another forum, I was told to upgrade to a much larger tank. Of course I do not have money for that right now. But they also suggested that I could add some more fish and maybe this will temporarily fix my problem.

How many fish should I add at once? and am I safe to add fish at this point in time (nitrates being a little high)? for the past five days, every other day, I have been doing a 20% water change. Currently my nitrate level is somewhere around 30ppm.


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## prov356 (Sep 20, 2006)

I wouldn't worry too much about your nitrate level in regards to adding fish.

Regarding how many to add, I'd do as suggested in the other thread and ID your fish and then contiue the thread there. Fogelhund can help you.


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## tjc348 (Feb 22, 2011)

Okay, thanks.


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