# Adding Juvi with adult tropheus



## Thanusan (Dec 29, 2011)

I have adult group of ilangies, i also have 1.5- 2inch juvi 4month old. I want to expand my adult group. Is it safe to add the 1.5inch-2 inch with the adults? and when is the best time to add it.??

Thanks
shawn


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## RayQ (Sep 26, 2007)

Adding a juvie is way better than trying to add an adult in my experience, I would suggest the best time to add is when the rest of the colony is paying attention to something else (feeding, water change, etc.) and will not notice the new arrival as quickly, giving the "new guy" a chance to get comfortable and a measure of confidence. Please note that this is just a theory and adding to an established colony from an outside source is risky in many ways, the whole hierarchy of the colony can change and cause problems for other members as well as the "new guy".


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

I've always made sure the newcomers were healthy and stable, housing in a qt tank would be best and after a few days I just toss them into my main tank while I'm feeding the others.

My old Ilangi colony I would add a few here and there as I found them and what started off as 30something ended up being 90something this way. If they will be accepted then they'll work themselves out, if they don't it wasn't meant to be.


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## Thanusan (Dec 29, 2011)

thanks guys. today I added 10-12 1.5 inch . all juvis are doing fine with the adults. so far so good.


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## Thanusan (Dec 29, 2011)

Whats the best food for Tropheus? In the past some got sick(bloat) . I feed them NLS thera A reg 0.5mm. 
Temp at 78
water change every week 20-30%
I add lots of epsom salt.

I did all this and still some got bloat. Any thing iam doing wrong???

Thanks guys
shawn


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

We all get bloat in Tropheus sooner or later. Prob mainly stress and conditions rellated (new one particuarly susseptable as they cary the bugs into your tank and are stressed from the move) than food type, though diet change seems to trigger it for some.
With pellets feed very little.
NLS recommend NLS cichlid for Tropheus not Thera A (tiny difference).
Still reasonably convinced it is easy to overfeed with pellets unless you are very disaplinned they continue to beg for more than whats good for them. Many good aquarists do not follow the instuctions and feed far less than three times a day, some as infrequent as once every two days. Force them by hunger to eat algae or failing that seaweed peas or other green veg or salad. 
Waterchanges 30% a week works fine for a low stocked tank but maybe up it to 50% as they grow or need it. Keep the nitrate below 20 ppm and no poop on the sand. They eat each others poop I think thats how bloat spreads so badly in Tropheus. This is fine in the wild (good nutitous food in comparison to most they get) but in tanks just a source of spreading infection you/they can do without)
Pre aged water is best for large waterchanges. If you do not/can not do this then I would do 30% but more often.

All the best James


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Thanusan said:


> Whats the best food for Tropheus? In the past some got sick(bloat) . I feed them NLS thera A reg 0.5mm.
> Temp at 78
> water change every week 20-30%
> I add lots of epsom salt.
> ...


NLS is a good choice. Tropheus are prone to getting bloat and it's not always clear what causes it -although overfeeding is a common reason. It's important to have Metro (or a similar medication on hand). Sooner or later most troph keepers have to deal with bloat.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

I've never experienced bloat with any of my fish.

I feed heavily and with my old Ilangi tank I powerfed to see if it would increase growth but never seen much difference. They were fed about a cup to almost two cups a day for 90 adults but this was spread throughout the photo-period, about 30x different feeding times.

Clean water, good filtration/turnover, good food and you'll be good.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

eklikewhoa said:


> I've never experienced bloat with any of my fish.
> 
> I feed heavily and with my old Ilangi tank I powerfed to see if it would increase growth but never seen much difference. They were fed about a cup to almost two cups a day for 90 adults but this was spread throughout the photo-period, about 30x different feeding times.
> 
> Clean water, good filtration/turnover, good food and you'll be good.


I disagree. You can not take one experience and aply it to everyone.
I have smoked and drunk heavily and eaten whatever I fanced since I was 10 and am now 50 and now in good health, so thats the best way to go?


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

I'm not saying its should be applied to everyone but are you saying that your approach should?

I have seen higher aggression levels with underfed fish in comparison to well fed fish. Supposedly Bloat or whatever the mass is calling their unthinkable deaths is suppose to be from stress levels raising above that of the immune systems abilities to maintain.

I have never experience bloat or unexplainable deaths and my husbandry for them has not changed or in better terms has not lessen. I am just sharing my experience and you can take it as you want.

I will admit the full details of my ways are not listed to detail which could play a huge role but then again your positing was probably just as vague but on the opposite end of the scale.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

also to correct your statement, it is not just one experience since many of my fellow hobbyist down here in texas have also altered their husbandry detail since the tropheus craze has struck like mad down here and now everyone owns them and even our big chain petsmart/petco are carrying these like bread & butter fish.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

I'm not questioning your methods as you seem comfortable with it. I'm just stating it's not the only way.

Times have changed and the husbandry of these fish have grown to great lengths of knowledge base. While some live in the confines of comfort others will try new things and some succeed and add to the info base gathered on the web.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Maybe concentrate on the bits we agree on. Clean water, good filtration/turnover, good food all yep.
Power feeding as advice to new guys I have a problem with. It also depends on tank size. If keeping em in good numbers in a 6 foot you can pretty much do as you like feeding wise and get better breeding. In a small tank with females stressed just from the males being so close you perhaps need to be more careful esp at first.

Small water changes and high nitate levels and keeping em in the dark also decrease aggression levels. Do I recommend those?

All the best James


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## Thanusan (Dec 29, 2011)

wt about adding salt. I add lots of epsom salt when i do water change, mayb hand full, is that too much to give them stress? my temp is 80.

Thanks guys for the tips.


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

We need to keep exchanges respectful. I've made some edits to the above posts where I see baiting or disrespect being shown toward another member.



24Tropheus said:


> Power feeding as advice to new guys I have a problem with.


+1

*eklikewhoa* your practices obviously work really well for you but it sounds like you're a fairly advanced hobbyist and maybe also really lucky. I wouldn't advise somebody new to tropheus to "powerfeed" as you do. This forum as well as others dedicated to tropheus have lots of stories about trophs becoming sick from overfeeding.

*Thanusan*, it's not generally necessary to add epsom salt. It's better to not mess with the water if you can help it and ensure it stays stable.

Consistency is seen by most troph keepers as a key to keeping trophs healthy.


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## noddy (Nov 20, 2006)

Thanusan said:


> Whats the best food for Tropheus? In the past some got sick(bloat) . I feed them NLS thera A reg 0.5mm.
> Temp at 78
> water change every week 20-30%
> I add lots of epsom salt.
> ...


Shawn, do you ever check your nitrates? In my case, a 75% w/c every week is necessary to keep the nitrates in line. I would only add epsom salts if I was concerned about the G.H, but I'm not. Pretty sure we are both on the same water (Scarborough), and I add baking soda to my tanks to get the K.H up. The G.H is fine.


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Good point noddy. What needs adding depends on your starting point. Low KH add Sodium bicarbinate. Low GH if you think that important (I do not) add Epsom salts Magnesium sulphate.
If low in both add maybe both or just the bicarb if you agree with me and think GH unimportant.

My own tap water is KH 14 deg and GH 20 deg and conductivity 600 (and nitrate measures between 0 and 5 ppm (tanks 10-20ppm) so best for me to add nothing and I can not test out the theory that low GH makes no difference.

All the best James


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## Thanusan (Dec 29, 2011)

thanks i will check the nitrates every week. thanks noddy... i normaly do 30% wc . i will start to do more..


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## Thanusan (Dec 29, 2011)

Thanks guys very helpfull. one last thing _ foood for tropheus. Nls only or nls and spirulina flakes or hbh veg 8?

thanks
shawn


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## zimmy (Aug 13, 2010)

Thanusan said:


> Thanks guys very helpfull. one last thing _ foood for tropheus. Nls only or nls and spirulina flakes or hbh veg 8?


*24Tropheus* made an interesting point in an earlier post about Ther-A NLS. I know a lot of people use it without issues but I've seen some people report having problems with bloat and attribute the problem to the food. The regular 0.5 mm cichlid NLS seems to have more consistent results.

I just use NLS alone because it's convenient and my trophs do well with it. Combining with spirulina/HBH flakes works well too.

Note that switching from one method to another should be done gradually. An abrupt change in what you feed is known to cause bloat with tropheus.


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## Thanusan (Dec 29, 2011)

I have been feeding them OSI Spirulina Flake for half a year. I know OSI Spirulina Flake is good for salt water fishes. Is this ok for tropheus? I went to the OSI Spirulina Flake web site, they didnt say any thing about fresh water cichlids.

thanks
shawn


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanusan said:


> I have been feeding them OSI Spirulina Flake for half a year. I know OSI Spirulina Flake is good for salt water fishes. Is this ok for tropheus? I went to the OSI Spirulina Flake web site, they didnt say any thing about fresh water cichlids.
> 
> thanks
> shawn


 :-? 
Says "This diet is appropriate for all freshwater and marine species. This is expecially important for marine fishes which tend to be more delicate and disease prone." when I look it up.
http://www.oceanstarinternational.com/S ... -Flake.htm

Though personaly I am worried about that much Spirulina in a Tropheus diet if fed OSI Spirulina flake alone.

Just so high in protein 60%! beta carotene, vitamin E, vitamin C and B complex, including B-12. Maybe too much of a good thing is actualy bad as NLS claims?

The high levels of beta carotine are particularly worrying I think.

Thing is Tropheus do not eat algae as ritch as spirulina in the wild. I realy dunno where the fad for ever increasing % of Spirulina in fish food came from. For sure I do not think it was evidence based but think it market led.

All the best James


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## Morpheen (Jul 21, 2010)

Surprised no one has mentioned feeding their Trophs Dainichi Veggi FX or Veggie Deluxe. Dainichi claims that their foods are "designed to prevent bloating". I can't speak to the truthfulness of that statement but I do know my Trophs love this stuff and I mix it into the rotation for their diet. I also feed NLS Cichlid and Xtreme Cichlid pellets.


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## JimA (Nov 7, 2009)

I was feeding the omega one veggie stuff if I remember right. Then I switched to NLS cichlid formula to see what all the hype is about and the fish seem to be doing fine on it and growing well. Big difference, can't really tell so both prolly work fine!!

I feed the a couple of pinches in the am and a couple at night when I get home. Usually skip one day of feeding during the week just to give them a break. I aslo have algae in the tank for them to graze on.


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## Thanusan (Dec 29, 2011)

so if i want to stick to one type of food for trops? NLS cichlid is the best for them? and wt type of green flakes are good for them? 
Iam going to buy new food this month.

thanks
shawn


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## 24Tropheus (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanusan said:


> so if i want to stick to one type of food for trops? NLS cichlid is the best for them? and wt type of green flakes are good for them?
> Iam going to buy new food this month.
> 
> thanks
> shawn


I for sure dunno. No one as done an indepedant study (inc various tank conditions) to find out.
Most folk agree do not change the diet quickly.
Lots of folk have success with NLS cichlid but I am far from convinced it is the best food or only food for Tropheus. Same for "green flakes" lots of folk use them and seem to have success but again no study to prove what is best. You pays your money and take your chances on your best guess. :wink:
Or hedge your bets and feed a bit of both. :wink:

All the best James


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## Thanusan (Dec 29, 2011)

Thank you very much for your help James!!


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

Morpheen said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned feeding their Trophs Dainichi Veggi FX or Veggie Deluxe. Dainichi claims that their foods are "designed to prevent bloating". I can't speak to the truthfulness of that statement but I do know my Trophs love this stuff and I mix it into the rotation for their diet. I also feed NLS Cichlid and Xtreme Cichlid pellets.


I actually have a NLS bucket that I mix mostly cichlid formula, maybe a 1/4 of thera+A and 1/4 Veggie Deluxe. Also have some of the Hikari Seaweed extreme. This then gets tossed into all the eheim auto feeders.


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## eklikewhoa (Jul 11, 2006)

I've been feeding my trophs this mainly for the past few weeks to see how the fish respond to it and will be mixing up their weekly routine with this.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/spons ... lcium.html


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