# Mbuna Scales Fading - Help ID



## mfield16 (Dec 11, 2015)

Hi all. I jumped back into the African cichlid arena, and my tank had been up and running for 49 days. Fishless cycle, seeded from my planted tank, went very well, 3 weeks.

25 days ago I added 12 Saulosi and 4 Zebra Obliquidens, and things were going very well. 22 days ago I added 2 albino bristlenose plecos. No changes. I feed pellets from Tampa Bay Cichlid, and once a week zucchini, mostly for the plecos.

6 days ago I noticed one Saulosi wasn't growing as fast. I got it in a breeder box so I could spot feed him. Eating and doing well, but didn't make it. Removed him immediately. Then, upon a closer look, noticed quite a few of the little fellas were getting what I can only describe as pale or grey/silver. The next day (4 days ago) both plecos and 3 Saulosi were dead. All 4 obliquidens look great, itnseems to be just the Saulosi. Pics below taken tonight. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I did start dosing Microbe-Lift Herbtana 3 days ago, and have had no additional deaths, but you will see from the pics that I will likely have more.

They are all eating ferociously I might add.

46g Bow 36x15x20
VivaGrow LED D90
SunSun Hw-704b and Ac70 filters
Black Diamond Sand
Weekly 25% water changes

Ammonia and Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20ppm
pH 8.2
KH 14
Gh 16

I do use salt, epsom salt, and baking soda to attain these levels.

The rocks I have seem to be a granite, if that helps.


__
https://flic.kr/p/2irQoFH


__
https://flic.kr/p/2irPgrd


__
https://flic.kr/p/2irLAML


----------



## Old Newbie (Feb 18, 2017)

I have a tank full of Astatotilapia Latifasciata and they have picked at and killed everything I have put in with them; they literally peeled patches of skin off of two synodontis catfish overnight and I had to euthanize them both. Since they seem to be unaffected, I would suspect them.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

That was my first thought...they were a LITTLE too aggressive with my timid haps and peacocks. But these are mbuna, so...

Tank is too small for both species anyway...maybe try rehoming the astatotilapia and see if the saulosi can recover?


----------



## mfield16 (Dec 11, 2015)

Tank is too small? Really? The breeder and the "cookie-cutter" on this site state saulosi and Astatotilapia latifasciata are fine in a 40 breeder.

At any rate, the Astatotilapia latifasciata are less than an inch and I have not seen them touch an mbuna. They mess with each other, but have not yet been witnessed going near the saulosi. With the height of this tank, I have witnessed 90% of the time the saulosi and the top and the latifasciata hanging out in the bottom of the tank.

Also, no aggression towards the BNP was witnessed either.

I appreciate the responses, but I don't see aggression between the species being the cause of whatever this is.


----------



## Old Newbie (Feb 18, 2017)

The "Cookie Cutter" 40 gallon is for a 40 long, which is a 48" tank, but, if your Latisfaciata are very small and you are not seeing aggression it is probably something else. I have no clue.


----------



## mfield16 (Dec 11, 2015)




----------



## ken31cay (Oct 9, 2018)

Looks like an illness to me. But unfortunately your fishes' condition doesn't jump out at me as something I've personally dealt with in the past. IMO even with the multiple pictures you posted it can still be hard to correctly diagnose without being there in person and seeing them in 3D at different angles.

Like most, I've dealt with my share of fish illnesses. FWIW in the past I've had the most overall success treating my sick fish when I do the research myself googling photos, symptoms & treatment, etc., until I feel comfortable enough that my diagnosis is correct and I can treat the fish.

HTH and good luck.


----------



## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

IDK I see a lot of fin damage. Remember illness can occur after the fish is worn down over time.

Since there is no clear diagnosis, it is time to try things. Do a 50% water change to get your nitrates to 10ppm and move one species or the other to a hospital tank. See if things improve.


----------



## Old Newbie (Feb 18, 2017)

That fish looks pretty beat up to me; I'm thinking that aggression is probably the root cause and now illness has set in. I agree with DJ- separate the species and hope for improvement.


----------



## ken31cay (Oct 9, 2018)

Holding off on medicating while keeping the tank clean & stress free was always my initial preferred treatment for sick Discus. Adding salt to the tank helped too.


----------



## mfield16 (Dec 11, 2015)

Old Newbie said:


> The "Cookie Cutter" 40 gallon is for a 40 long, which is a 48" tank, but, if your Latisfaciata are very small and you are not seeing aggression it is probably something else. I have no clue.


Well ****! How'd I miss that? :zz: I didn't even know a 40 long existed. 


DJRansome said:


> IDK I see a lot of fin damage. Remember illness can occur after the fish is worn down over time.
> 
> Since there is no clear diagnosis, it is time to try things. Do a 50% water change to get your nitrates to 10ppm and move one species or the other to a hospital tank. See if things improve.


I've done 2 big WC so far. It's going to be nearly impossible to get them separated unless I remove all the rocks. Man. Not fun.



ken31cay said:


> Holding off on medicating while keeping the tank clean & stress free was always my initial preferred treatment for sick Discus. Adding salt to the tank helped too.


Salt was already in, but I added more 2 days ago, which may be why the BNP passed.


----------



## mfield16 (Dec 11, 2015)

Since I haven't seen any aggression while down there (tank is in the basement), I may put a camera on it for a few days to spy.

I can say that after 5 days of medicating, most are looking better. 2 are still pretty bad.


----------

