# ecobio-stone: for real or a gimmick?



## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

http://www.onedersave.com/index.htm

I stumbled upon this item and it doesn't seem like there's been much discussion on this site about the product. Not surprisingly, the site is not specific about whether you actually need to do water changes, but it sure seems to give the impression that, at least assuming you're not overcrowding your tank or doing anything crazy, you don't need to do water changes almost ever. Can this be true??

Below, for example, is a portion of their FAQ.

Q: How do I know if I need to change the water?
A: Once EcoBio-Block starts working, the need for water changes will drop considerably. You can monitor the water from time to time to check parameters. You will, of course; need to add water due to the evaporation process. Sudden changes in amount of fish or other abnormal conditions may cause high levels of ammonia, nitrites or nitrates and may then require a partial water change.

Q: Is there any other care and maintenance necessary, once I have EcoBio-Block working in the tank?
A: You will still have to scrape the sides of the tank occasionally and clean the mechanical filter pad. Also, although EcoBio-Block does not affect algae directly, it does reduce algae because it reduces phosphates and organic matter which contribute to algae formation.


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## Fishbulb2 (Sep 23, 2008)

For the cost of this, I would hold on to your money. If you don't want to do water, you don't need to buy this in order to do that. You can just neglect your tank and have the extra cash in your pocket. But I wouldn't recommend doing that.

What's odd to me about FAQ section is that they seem to claim that their product doesn't do much in the way of eliminating nitrates via anaerobic bacteria. At least Seachem Matrix claims to do that. I will stick to more traditional methods for the time being until I see more convincing evidence of a better alternative. There website alone didn't really sell me on it.

FB


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

I certainly wouldn't get too many since once I'm dealing with my larger aquariums I'll just 
a) have automatic water changes set up
b) have as large a wet-dry as possible to maximize filtration

but if i have smaller tanks that i can't set up automatic water changes for, then if this actually worked i'd be happy to pay the plainly exorbitant cost if it actually meant i could go months, if not years, with top quality water in my smaller tanks. the time saving is worth it for me, but again, i'm highly skeptical, which is why i'm wondering if anyone knows anything about this.


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

Yeah, it sounds like one of those cases of "too good to be true". And it kinda seems redundant if you have good bio-media. Wouldn't decent amount of well placed bio-media in a canister do essentially the same thing?

Also, fish absorb their minerals from not only their food, but their water. So, after some time, that needs to be replenished. And yes, as mentioned, nitrates need to be addressed.

I will have to admit, all the pictures of projects in Malaysia and Japan are quite convincing though. And, if you think about it, its not SOOOO exuberant in price. $50-$60. Purigen or Substrat Pro aren't that far off in prices. I guess it depends on your individual budgets....

If you do ever get it to try it out in your small tank setup, post back here and let us know. I'm quite intrigued! :wink:


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

I barely glanced at the page... but these products are all over the place and I have very consistently seen people try them and the products completely fail...

If they ever do come up with a miracle product that really works, we will all hear about it very quickly. I personally have no desire to spend tons of money and kill tons of fish using the products that don't work... just to be one of the first to use the product that does work...

Truth in advertisement died several years ago... it's sad but true...


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## KaiserSousay (Nov 2, 2008)

On first look , I thought..Ya, right another ripp-off. 
Then looked a bit closer..way too much time on my hands I guess.. 
When they showed the test results I thought they looked an awful lot like the results you would get when using media from an established tank, to start a new one. Time line was pretty close as well.


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## Toby_H (Apr 15, 2005)

You convinced me KaiserSousay, I read the site...

It's one of the only products that actually states what bacteria it contains. Bacillus subtilis natto, which can sporulate, meaning it can stay alive while packaged... Although I didn't see any mention of it being able to oxidize ammonia nor nitrite... Although I'm not saying it can't...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_subtilis

It states you will need to add new bacteria in 2 years, which doesn't make a bit of sense to me... Once established, the bacteria should sustain a population as long as their are resources (food & oxygen)... or until something wipes them out (excessive temperatures, excessive high or low PH, bleach, high chlorine concentrations, etc).

This product makes no claims to do a darn thing for nitrates, which are the main reason we do water changes... therefore it does not reduce the need for water changes...

Website States: "â€¢EcoBio-Block will start working in approximately 2 - 6 weeks depending on the condition of the tank" LOL - umm... doesn't an unseeded cycling process "start working" in 2~6 weeks depending on the conditions of the tank? Won't New Tank Syndrom already take it's toll in 2~6 weeks?

To me it seems like extremely expension porous bio media that claims to be seeded with bacteria...

I return to my original point that truth in advertisement is a thing of the past...

I say this myth is busted....


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## fastforward (Nov 5, 2009)

Hello.
I purchased an Eheim Classic 2217 canister filter in May of 2009. Yesterday I turned everything off on the tank to preform a water change. Once I was done, I powered everthing back up and I noticed a slow drip from the return, right at the "double isolating valves", or "quick disconnect valves." I called Eheim about the problem and I will say the staff was very helpful. They informed that they've recieved "a few" calls about this problem with some newer units.


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## Cento (Mar 30, 2005)

^^^^^^^^^
:-? :-? :-?


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## cholile (Oct 28, 2007)

For me the biggest red flag is that the central way they advertise is to say statements that generally give the impression that "this makes all that maintenance people can't stand (read: water changes) unnecessary." Yet when you look for specific assurances of just how often you will need to do water changes there is nothing at all.

Frankly, I don't know much about truth in advertising, but I think either they're selling themselves short by not listing just how few water changes a reasonably stocked tank would need during that two year period to maintain the quality of someone who performed 30% W/C weekly OR this either is, or should be, improper advertising.

You can guess which way I'm leaning :wink:

Whoever said "if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is" is probably right.


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## Yajna (Oct 20, 2009)

Toby_H said:


> It states you will need to add new bacteria in 2 years, which doesn't make a bit of sense to me... Once established, the bacteria should sustain a population as long as their are resources (food & oxygen)... or until something wipes them out (excessive temperatures, excessive high or low PH, bleach, high chlorine concentrations, etc).


I couldn't really wrap my head around that either. Even if it is some kind of wonder bacteria that hasn't caught on yet for aquariums, it makes no sense that once introduced to our tank it somehow self-destructs in two years. Especially once you read that it apparently has a tolerance for extremely varied environmental conditions. Saying it needs to be replaced every two years seems misleading, which makes me think other things they say might be misleading as well.


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