# My DIY Hydroponics Garden



## JohnB (Oct 24, 2004)

In an attempt to help control my ever-increasing nitrate level, I created a little hydroponic pothos garden. Pictures and a brief explanation of the construction are available here.

Still too early to know if it's going to have any effect.

Let me know what you think.

John


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## wedrnkbeer (Aug 6, 2005)

Looks awesome! Let us know how it works.


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## Bruno (Mar 4, 2005)

i just put the plants in my tetra tec filter 9hang on back), vines took insite my sponges and all that 

Looks great!


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## tzembower (Jan 9, 2005)

Great idea, I've got to know if this helps!

Todd


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## verrice (Jan 15, 2003)

Really interesting idea, and you did a great job putting it together. Looks great.


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## JohnB (Oct 24, 2004)

Thanks for the comments. Just an update on what I thought was a very simple, straightforward design. It stopped working.

It worked fine when I tested it (repeatedly) -- water was pumped in the hole in one end and drained out the other. But after I turned the pumps off for cleaning the other day, the water no longer drains out the hole but instead overflows the top. Nothing blocking the tubing or elbow. The only thing I could think of is that an air bubble is trapped in the output elbow, preventing water from flowing through it. If I jiggle it around or shove something in the hole I can eventually get water flowing out. But I can't trust it if the power goes out.

One thing I tried is drilling a small hole in the top of the output elbow and inserted a 2-inch-long piece of airline tubing. I figured that would let trapped air escape and the tubing would prevent water coming out the hole. Didn't work, still no flow. Thinking the hole was too small with the tubing inserted I pulled it out and after some gurgling noises the water started flowing. Only problem is that without the tubing, water trickles out the hole.

So now I am completely stumped and open to suggestions.

John


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## verrice (Jan 15, 2003)

Perhaps replace the elbow with a T so that your venting is equal to the size of your drain? You could then place a cap on that which allows as much air through as possible, but won't let things fall in or water to splash out.

Just and idea, but I'm no plumbing expert.


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## JohnB (Oct 24, 2004)

That's a great idea, but I'm not sure such a T exists. The closest thing I can find is this:










It doesn't look like it has a flange to rest against the surface on the outside. It looks like it would just pull through the hole. Compare it to this:










John


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## verrice (Jan 15, 2003)

I do see a small lip on it... perhaps a nylon washer would fit the bill? You could 'glue' one in place if that won't work.


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## Nil (Jan 20, 2005)

Two ideas.

1) Brute force. Make the output significantly bigger than the input. Either a bigger output tube or convert the output to some type of overflow. If you do a bigger output tube, you should make it so that the highest point of the output is right where the output tube meets the end cap (so that the air has a place to flow out of and let the water take its place).

OR

2) Following verrice's line of thinking, use a PVC T to connect to the endpipe, and then find an adapter from the PVC to your vinyl tubing (drip watering system connectors might work).

Hope that helps. Love to hear how you end up fixing it.


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## tzembower (Jan 9, 2005)

> 1) Brute force. Make the output significantly bigger than the input.


Bingo,

Do this and your flow will be fine.

Todd


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## verrice (Jan 15, 2003)

tzembower said:


> > 1) Brute force. Make the output significantly bigger than the input.
> 
> 
> Bingo,
> ...


I certainly agree with the output being larger than the input, but wouldn't making it significantly larger really increase the noise level?


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## JohnB (Oct 24, 2004)

I decided to try replacing the elbow with a T, since that involves the least amount of changes (and work). I should have the part in the next day or two. Interesting that when I ordered this $0.87 part the shipping was over $7  , and there is a $5 minimum order. We could always use more plastic buckets, so I added a couple of those to the order and the shipping price came down to $4.50. I really wish I could buy this stuff locally.


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## mpmitche (Apr 28, 2005)

Let us know if this fixes it. I would love to try some kind of hydroponic setup (kinda a nerd) someday and this little baby looks great.


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## Michael Menzer (May 16, 2005)

Has John B or anyone else had any measurable success with plants to lower nitrates? I've had little success with plants in my Malawi tanks and have often considered this.


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## verrice (Jan 15, 2003)

Michael Menzer said:


> Has John B or anyone else had any measurable success with plants to lower nitrates? I've had little success with plants in my Malawi tanks and have often considered this.


From what I've been told by knowledgable sources, is that your plants don't really remove alot of nitrates without a good CO2 supply. Normally that's in reference to underwater plants. Since these plants are also in the air, where we produce CO2 naturally for them, perhaps it'd work out better.

FWIW


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## iceblue (Apr 27, 2004)

Even if it doesn't make a significant difference in nitrates it still looks really cool. 8) A living garden surrounding your tank will always inhance everyones viewing pleasure.


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## JohnB (Oct 24, 2004)

Problem solved.  I changed the elbow to a Tee and it works. Updated pictures and info are here. Now let's see if it actually does anything for my nitrates or just looks nice.

One thing if I were to do this again, I would not only use a Tee but also make the output a larger diameter than the input (as Nil suggested). Even when the ouput is flowing, it can't keep up unless I reduce the powerhead's flow rate to pretty low. I wanted a low flow rate anyway, so that's not really a problem, just a puzzle. I don't really understand why this is - maybe somebody could explain the physics to me.

BTW, it turned out the Tee did have a flange just like the elbow (the picture on the website was wrong), so no need to add a washer.

Thanks for all the comments and helpful suggestions.

John


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## Butti (Nov 29, 2005)

JohnB said:


> Even when the ouput is flowing, it can't keep up unless I reduce the powerhead's flow rate to pretty low.


The powerhead generates pressure enough for a good flow at the input. However, when the water has to flow through the output, it relays basically on atmospheric pressure, which is probably not as strong as the pressure your powerhead generates. Hence, you need a larger output to have the same amount of water flowing in and out OR a powerhead set to low flow.

Please keep us updated on those nitrate removal results.


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## verrice (Jan 15, 2003)

Glad to hear the tee helped! Good luck with the nitrates, but as was said, either way, it's a cool idea.


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## Jimmy Yahoo (Aug 1, 2005)

JohnB nice going. *** read much about this. Its called Aquaponics. Large scale Aquaponic farmers use tilapias and grow a multitude of things. Tomatoes, cabbage, lettuce.... marijuana. Once the crop is harvested, you can eat the fish! (eating cichlids! Ooooh!) The plants will indeed filter out much of the phosphates and nitrates. The roots themselves provide a great place for bene bacteria to grow. In fact the inch-per-gallon rule totally breaks down in aquaponic setups. Farmers find that with a lightly stocked tanks there are simply not enough nutrients in the water to grow the plants, not enough nutrients, not enough fish, id take this to mean great filtration.

On some of the less savory forums out there dedicated to growing the green crop theres much information out there and even some fish gurus with outstanding tanks that serve a double purpose.

Classy setup in those pics. Nice woodwork.

Id love to see this catch on more, glad you brought it to the attention of some of the people here.


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## mpmitche (Apr 28, 2005)

Does this mean the plants will be starved for nutrients in a normally stocked mbuna tank?


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## Jimmy Yahoo (Aug 1, 2005)

Depends on the number of plants, depends on the type of fish. Meat eaters make good byproducts, vege mbunas youll have to dose extra ferts. Foliar feeding is also a good way to introduce extra ferts during flower.

I suppose it all depends on how seriously you take it and what your growing.

ETA: JohnB if in the future your finding that the plants are not doing so well you may want to put the pump on a timer to pump water into the tray table once or twice ever hour. This way the roots have a chance to get some air instead of being submerged in water all the time. I think youll also find that roots will quickly fill up that small amount of space. Triming the plants to keep them small will help with this issue.


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## zallyn (Aug 5, 2003)

Very nice 

I think you may have come up with the answer to my bamboo dilema.

Thanks for sharing.


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## mpmitche (Apr 28, 2005)

This post inspired me into a little research. The biggest problem I see is that in hydroponic articles they almost always mention that pH shoudl be adjusted to 6.5 - 7.0. I am considering putting my orchids into this "aquaponic" system but am conserned about the pH. Does anyone know if plants can stand high pH for extended periods of time?


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## Butti (Nov 29, 2005)

I believe one of the biggest problems of high pH and hydroponics is that Fe will become unavailable for plants.

However, hydroponics articles aim at optimized growth, etc. Since we only want to get rid of ammonia and nitrates, a "plant filter" should work to a certain extent, even at non-optimum levels of nutrients absorption.

As for plants enduring high pH and KH for long periods of time, I've never tried that. Let's wait for someone who has to share their experience with us.


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## Rick_Lindsey (Aug 26, 2002)

Not sure it's even applicable, but I suspect most folks who live in hard-water areas don't use RO water for watering their houseplants... A different situation than having the roots submerged, obviously, so keep your salt handy.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist)


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## lomax (Nov 14, 2003)

my pond plants never had any problems with hard high ph water. i would use water lettace and other weed pond plants. they grow like crazy and send runners out, you can just take some out every now and then.


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## Jimmy Yahoo (Aug 1, 2005)

It is true that Ph plays a role in hydroponic setups. Commercial ferts often contain Ph buffers and acidic compounds to reduce the Ph of the normally hard water that comes out of our taps. Ro and distilled water are used widely in hydroponic gardens. Sometimes peat is used because oftentimes the clarity of the water is not a concern, and adding another bucket for a peat filter along a daisy chain of growing buckets is not as aestheticly unpleasing as a bucket sitting next to your trophy display tank.

*** never heard what exactly happens when plants are grown in higher Ph setups, that is probably because for the most part it is avoided, and addressed just like people who keep discus and other lower Ph fish. Its whats necessary, so they do what has to be done.

Another problem is temp. the 65-70 degrees that are preferable for roots usually contradict the somewhat higher temps associated with tropical fish.

Aquaponics is a touchy system, redeemable only because of the quality plants that it produces.


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## Tron (Aug 10, 2005)

Beauty Idea mate!


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## mpmitche (Apr 28, 2005)

Butti said:


> I believe one of the biggest problems of high pH and hydroponics is that Fe will become unavailable for plants.
> 
> However, hydroponics articles aim at optimized growth, etc. Since we only want to get rid of ammonia and nitrates, a "plant filter" should work to a certain extent, even at non-optimum levels of nutrients absorption.
> 
> As for plants enduring high pH and KH for long periods of time, I've never tried that. Let's wait for someone who has to share their experience with us.


Are you saying I should not but price orchids into an aquaponic system right away  .


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## Honeyrobber (Sep 24, 2005)

Aquaponics(the joining of hydroponics and aquaculture-raising fish) is a proven system. Our local high school did a set up with tilapia and large clay pellet beds that they incerted plants started in rock wool cubes. It just happens that fish waste are nearly perfectly what plants need to thrive. Plants help with more than just nitrates. Plants remove ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. The ammonia does not have to be broken down before the nitrogen is picked up and used by the plants. I never thought about doing such a project like yours.

If you would use a faster growing plants you will remove more of the chemicals. One of the best is bib type lettuces but these need to have more than 11 hours of uninterupted darkness or they will try to bloom which makes for a bitter salad. I use my water change water to water the flower beds/ hanging baskets in summer. Aquarium plants have made it possible for a few tanks of mine to go 3 and 4 months before needing water changes, but these had alot of plants(nearly to the point of calling them planted tanks with fish) and lower than normal numbers of fish. Ancharis and duck weed grow very fast and pull alot of nitrogen out of the system. The key thing to remember is the faster a plant grows the faster it takes up nutrients. If your spot has enough light the list would be long of what plants would work including tomatoes(one of the plants used by the school).

Edited to add: After reading a bit more of the thread I noticed people referring to hydroponic articles. They have little to do with aquaponics because the nutrients are not man made. Some plants how ever do not do good in hi pH. The normal rule for hydroponics is to keep the pH 1 to 2 degrees lower than if the plant was in perfect soil for that plant. Tomatoes like neutral to slightly acidic soil and in hydroponics are best grown around 5.5 to 6.0 pH. This is because the nutrients are bound within compounds like ammonia. Different part of the nitrogen cycle can be made worse with different pHs as some compounds like it more acidic and others basic. In college I did a bit of hydroponic work at the college green house where I did my work study since my major was horticulture. They had 3 hydroponic systems. The type of system you have is a continuos flow like a gutter system. Someone mentioned turning the pump on and off and that would make your system an ebb and flow system which is normally used in aquaculture in large clay pellet beds. The third system is a sprayer on a timer that sprays the roots with the solution which was dismantled as soon as the first study was done as the sprayer tips get clogged with our hard water. pH was not adjusted other than the nutrient mix being added which lowered the pH a bit but it was still over 7. If you want the best for the plants and the fish the tilapia tanks at the high school were kept near 7 but it was always a bit higher(7.2-7.4). So using some RO/distilled water to lower the rock waters pH a bit would help. My tap water is 7.9-8.2pH with the average being 8.1ph. It really upset me when a local catfish farmer got pissed because the FFA chapter used the cleaned tilapia as a fund raiser dinner instead of their yearly catfish cook out and got the school board to make the ag teacher take down the set up even though tilapia and the veggies became part of the lunch menu from those same tanks. The food service class(advance home ec.) cleaned and cooked the fish. Each class rotated to have lunch from the food service instead of the lunch room which worked out to about 2 times a year you got to eat there.

I still talk with my old ag teacher regularly. We talked about this system back in Sept after I mentioned wanted to set up a fish room for tropical fish. Anyone that uses a flow through system could have the sump pump the water to beds then have another sump pump from the bed drain back to the fish tanks. It is something I have given some thought to but doubt I will because my plan is to have the fish room in a basement and artificial lighting for growing plants gets expensive.


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## JohnB (Oct 24, 2004)

Thanks for all the comments and additional info.

As far as optimizing pH, lighting cycles, hyroponics sytems, etc. -- my main goal is to reduce algae growing in my tank. If that goal is accomplished, I don't really care whether the plants live up to their full potential or not. I chose pothos because others have had success with them in cichlid tanks, and because we already have several potted pothos around the house. As long as they don't turn brown and look bad, I'll be happy (and so will my wife). But if they can't handle the high pH, then I'll try other plants. The fish are the most important thing to me, so I'm not going to do anything that might have an adverse effect on them. For me, the plants are there to benefit the fish, not vice versa.

My secondary goal was to do this cheaply. I didn't want to invest a lot of time and money in something that may not even work. I already had most of the materials (wood from my light hood, pvc, tubing, eggcrate), so I ended up spending about $25 on a powerhead and some fittings. Since we already had a large thriving potted pothos hanging from the ceiling next to the tank, I didn't think any extra lighting was necessary. These plants will have to get by on what the rest of our (many) house plants do.

As far as achieving my goal of reducing algae, I think it's too early to tell. In the few weeks it's been running I've noticed no difference. But it takes quite a while for these plants to develop roots and really start growing, so I'll just wait and see. At this point the plants seem to be doing all right -- at least they have not turned brown or dropped any leaves. If nothing else, it makes an attractive (IMO) addition to the area around my tank 

John


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## toffee (Feb 11, 2006)

OLd old thread, any updates?


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## TheeMon (May 11, 2004)

hey john B i just delivered all the phone books to wheeling... i live 30 mins north but in ohio(above stupidville)


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