# Liplocking Firemouths



## wlyons9856 (Sep 16, 2010)

Just today I noticed my two firemouths have began lip locking, this is the first time
They've done this I believe. Is this common practice or are they pairing. I'm not sure about which is male or female because I only purchased the
6 weeks ago from the pet store. They are completely healthy. Anyone have input?


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

It's common, they are settling territorial disputes.


----------



## wlyons9856 (Sep 16, 2010)

Could they be pairing off? Or just trying to punk one another


----------



## ebjdftw (Aug 24, 2010)

every firemouth i ever had was a punk =)


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Honestly, I just re-read your post... could be either. Initially I was thinking you only had them for two weeks...


----------



## Chubbs the Jellybean (Jun 16, 2009)

My firemouth is a punk too... (hence my tank setup in my sig)


----------



## marvo (Nov 24, 2010)

have you researched water info fire mouths ?? if not might b good idea


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

marvo said:


> have you researched water info fire mouths ?? if not might b good idea


Are you concerned with ph or something? If so, not necessary.


----------



## wlyons9856 (Sep 16, 2010)

My water parameters are fine, they just recently started lip locking, they dont seen to be doing too much warm to one another or any other fish in the tank.


----------



## marvo (Nov 24, 2010)

TheFishGuy said:


> marvo said:
> 
> 
> > have you researched water info fire mouths ?? if not might b good idea
> ...


 =D> did you ever think it had nothing to do with lip locking??? just a helpful suggestion get over your self...


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

marvo, before you jump to conclusions and request I "get over myself" there was nothing meant by my post but to simply state that water params for firemouths can vary all over the chart and will not directly affect weather they will lip lock or have territorial disputes. They will spawn in almost any water chemistry offered and will carry on territorial disputes in almost any water conditions. Worrying about such things like PH for example is simply not necessary for firemouths that have been bred in capitivity for hundreds of generations and have not the slightest idea of what type of water their ancestors came from. I've said it a million times it seems but I'll say it again. Consistency is key if you want your centrals to breed/thrive in a glass box for years and years.

Incidently, that post was to prevent the op from doing unnecessary research.

Great signature by the way, I like it. 



> "easy does it ..live and let live..principal over personality.."


My question was a simple one.


> "Are you concerned with ph or something?"


 It was not meant sarcasticly, or as a way to make myself self sound like I need to get over myself. It was a simple question.

To all, this is perfect example of why electronic communication is unrealiable and can easily be miss construed as something it is not. If you plan to post on any forum with thousands of people that could potentially be involved in the conversation from all walks of life and from all over the world you had better be prepared for anything. Most of all have thick skin and be prepared to take criticism.

My appologies to the op, now can we get back on topic and stay on it.

TFG


----------



## marvo (Nov 24, 2010)

boy your good at ducking and doging... guess you should do better at electronic communication and yes this is a public forum wonder what those thousands of people think about this communication?? . =D> if im im not mistaken fire mouths need soft water and if i am mistaken you or one of the other moderator's will tell me so...


----------



## conoholic (Nov 12, 2005)

umm firemouths can live in just about any PH..... from *soft* 6.0 up to 8.6 *hard* ...... PH has nothing to do with why they lip lock.... fish liplocking in general is normal, whether over territory or breeding. yes im backing TFG up, hes a great guy with aLOT of knowaloge in fishkeeping and gives GREAT advise.. id take his advise over yours sry to say........


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

1. the rules of any forum suggest you discuss the post, and not the poster. Attacks are certainly against any, and all forum rules.

2. You are mistaken that Firemouths NEED soft water. They naturally range from a ph of 7.0 and a dh of 5.0 (softish) to a ph of 7.8 and fairly hard water. In some instances they have been found to breed in brackish water. Many of the firemouths in stores have been bred in Florida ponds, which are typically hard water.

Don't attack anyone again.

Thank you.


----------



## bernie comeau (Feb 19, 2007)

Fogelhund said:


> They naturally range from a ph of 7.0 and a dh of 5.0 (softish) to a ph of 7.8 and fairly hard water.


I'd have to agree with the Fish guy on pH not being of any great significance in the the keeping and /or breeding of aquarium strain firemouth ( or most C.A. for that matter). FM (firemouth) are likely to do well in anything from pH 6 to 9. As long as stable water chemistry is maintainedand dissolved wastes are kept low by frequent large water changes .......this being far more important then the actual pH the fish originate from.

BUT I really doubt they typically come from neutral, and/or soft water. The notion of FM coming from soft water really goes back to the idea that they were "South American".

Never mind what fish profiles state. I've looked at well over half a dozen PDF academic papers on water quality of the Usumacinta river (major river that FM come from) and can't find anything that doesn't show pH 8 to 9. The san Pedro river, the same thing (tributary of the Usumacinta that is the type locality of FM). I have yet to find anything through out this whole region that is below pH 7.5. But it's difficult to link to to a PDF article as it ends up on Adobe photoshop on my computer.I can link to this article by Juan Miguel Artigas Azas, on salvini, though . Bear in mind that salvini is found over a larger range then FM and is not only sympatric with FM, but with ALL Thorichthys species.http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=109

In a very general description of the entire region , Jaun Miguel Artigas Azas states: "Water chemistry is always on the alkaline side , with pH measurements over 7.5 and values up to 8.0 or more not being unusual. Hardness shows the widest variation, from relatively soft waters (8* DH) to very hard waters (>50* DH)."

If anyone has any info that shows an ACTUAL measurement taken from waters that FM comes from that shows neutral, acidic or soft water ....... I'd like to see it.


----------



## wlyons9856 (Sep 16, 2010)

I didn't think this post would get so extensive. Just wanted to make sure
My fish would be okay. They don't seem to be harming any fish, so I shouldn't have to separate them, correct?


----------



## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

My info came from Cichlids of Central America, by Ad Konings.


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

*wlyons9856*

If the aggression gets out of hand and fins abecome missing then by all means do something. Take some time and sit and watch them for a couple hours. You will soon see that there's more than likely a pair that would like some privacy... Try and look for physical traits to pick out the two that are forming the pair. OR Simply remove the larges fish which is more than likely a male... Then see what happens...


----------



## TheFishGuy (Apr 21, 2005)

Continued posts off topic will be deleted.


----------

