# Stocking ideas starting with red zebra



## mjmg8rs (Sep 8, 2015)

I am about done cycling my tank - and I am trying to "wrap up" how to stock the tank.
Here is where I am..
110 Gallon "tall" tank
Going to focus on a Mbuna tank..
Remember I am the new guy figuring this out - so tell me if I got it right..

It seems like I need to start somewhere with either a Metriaclima Esthera (Red Zebra) or a Labidochromis Caeruleus (Yellow Lab). I would like to build on that with colors and "groups". So I think in a tank of this size with the amount of hiding spaces I have - I can have 5 or 6 types in groups of 4 or 5 fish..

Assuming that's true and I start with the Red Zebra... 
What would you mix in - here is what it sounds like so far..
some type of cynotilapia afra (looks like there are a couple choices here with nice colors)
the labidochromis perlmutt 
the lodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty)
people keep talking about the demasoni or the salousi

Does this sound like the right mix ?? Feels like I have a lot of blue in here.. is there an albino or yellow fish that fits in with this group?

Thanks in advance
Mike


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

110 Tall is 48x18? I'd stock it like a 75G.

Four species, 1m:4f of each.
Metriaclima estherae
some type of cynotilapia afra (looks like there are a couple choices here with nice colors)
the labidochromis perlmutt 
the lodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty)

Very little blue. Note afra is now zebroides and females are drab.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

DJRansome said:


> 110 Tall is 48x18? I'd stock it like a 75G.
> 
> Four species, 1m:4f of each.
> Metriaclima estherae
> ...


Agree... very little blue... but of the "afra" types, picking the Hara "white top", where the females are blueish too, might help. Or some pure Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos.


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## mjmg8rs (Sep 8, 2015)

So not a fifth group huh.. Bummer..
If u were looking for the blue would you use the demasoni or the salousi.. Can either coexist with the perlmutt?

I was assuming the perlmutt would bring the blue.. Or should I replace the perlmutt with the demasoni or salousi

Thanks by the way for your help


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## mjmg8rs (Sep 8, 2015)

Sorry a couple other questions..

Since the tank is so tall is there a breed I can add that will stay up higher in the tank?

Also can a greshakei. Fit in here? Or an acei?


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

I think
Metriaclima Estherea
Pseudotropheus Cyaneorhabdos or Pseudotropheus Demasoni
Pseudotropheus Acei
Pseudotropheus Socolofi Albino
Would be a good,lots of blue here. With the Zebras and Albinos providing the contrast. The Acei can take up the upper column of the tank. with it being so tall,you might see this behavior more so than other keepers. I keep them in a 125 and they do swim at the top more than the other groups they're housed with,but it isn't constant,and the male still holds a territory that isn't exclusive to the top.

I've Kept Estherea for years,and have kept them with all sorts of different mbuna groups.While they are common,they are still a joy to keep. What I do is overstock on females for each group,this is especially important with the Cyaneorhabdos,because they are known for being rough on each other.Also my Albino Socolofi are very rough on each other,so again get extra females.


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

I wouldn't do saulosi, because you would end up with maybe two males that are blue, and a bunch of yellow/orange females... doesn't help much in the blue department.

As far as demasoni, understand, you probably want to start with 15-20 of them, and they can be a problematic fish to keep, often bloating due the stress they can put on each other. Once you get a stable group, they are usually pretty good though.

I would pass on greshakei, as I think you would have issues with aggression and hybridization risk with the estherae. I've found with keeping zebra types together, you can keep a barred type, with a non--barred type... but don't keep two barred types, or two non-barred types together.


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

Fogelhund said:


> I wouldn't do saulosi, because you would end up with maybe two males that are blue, and a bunch of yellow/orange females... doesn't help much in the blue department.
> 
> As far as demasoni, understand, you probably want to start with 15-20 of them, and they can be a problematic fish to keep, often bloating due the stress they can put on each other. Once you get a stable group, they are usually pretty good though.
> 
> I would pass on greshakei, as I think you would have issues with aggression and hybridization risk with the estherae. I've found with keeping zebra types together, you can keep a barred type, with a non--barred type... but don't keep two barred types, or two non-barred types together.


How about a group of Socolofi for OP?


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## Fogelhund (Dec 3, 2002)

Ps. socolofi would work fine... I've just never really liked them... no reason, just don't.


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## mjmg8rs (Sep 8, 2015)

So I am down to these 5 to choose from..

Maylandia estherae - Red Zebra
Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" - msuli
Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt"
Iodotropheus sprengerae - Rusty
Pseudotropheus saulosi

I like the idea of the yellow females from the saulosi, along with the red / orange from the zebra. Is there anything across these 5 that I need to worry about for cross breeding, or can I just pick from these.

I know that there is a view that I have to stick to 4 instead of 5 because its a 110 "tall" tank - so I should stock like a 75. If I can build the caves up higher and have an extra level can I go more?

Thanks
Mike


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I find the solid orange of estherae and the solid orange-yellow of saulosi give me too much yellow-orange in the tank. I'd skip them. Perlmutt are not blue at all...white and yellow.


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## mjmg8rs (Sep 8, 2015)

So whats this?? I was told it was a perlmutt, when I bought it - and I like it 

I will post separately to identify

Mike


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

mjmg8rs said:


> So I am down to these 5 to choose from..
> 
> Maylandia estherae - Red Zebra
> Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" - msuli
> ...


You want to pick only four species. Google the images of the ones you like the most. Try and imagine what your tank will look like, too much yellow, too much orange, too much blue or a perfect balance.


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## mjmg8rs (Sep 8, 2015)

Ok Clearly - I didn't know what a perlmutt was  
When I went on google and looked up images of perlmutt - I saw a couple that looked just like this.. goes to show you..

So here is where I am... hopefully final round _ (You guys are very patient!)

Maylandia estherae - Red Zebra
Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" - msuli
Iodotropheus sprengerae - Rusty
Cynotilapia sp. "hara"

what do you think?? all 1m:4-5F

Mike


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

I'm getting real excited about the blue coloring I'm starting to see on my Metriaclima sp Dolphin. I stocked them with Yellow Labs, Rusties, and Yellow Tail Acei.
They're starting to mature and I've got a couple males that look excellent although I'm not sure how long the current harmony will last. The others (whether they're females or sub males) seems to run from a very dark blue to a lighter cobalt blue.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

This helped my decision also.

https://coopscichlidblog.wordpress.com/ ... p-dolphin/


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## mjmg8rs (Sep 8, 2015)

So I just looked that up and actually this may be the thing I was looking for - can they (the Metriaclima sp Dolphina (Manda) ) coexist with red zebra?

If not you have almost the same setup I was discussing above changing out red zebra for yellow lab - which I would consider...

Assuming the white top Hara works in both the mixes also - so I have 5 to choose 4 from..

Mike


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

I'm not sure about them getting along with red zebras.

I picked out the first three based on their low rankings on the "mbuna aggressiveness scale". I've had africans in my distant past and didn't want to put up with rowdy fish again. I struggled with choosing a fourth species and the good folks on this forum were offering suggestions when someone mentioned the sp Dolphin. I've been quite happy with the decision so far. I know they've been hardier then the rest of them. It's the only species of the four in which I haven't lost any yet.
Very cool fish and I think they're gonna be BIG.


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

Dolphins have a rep for being skittish...some fishkeepers love them but even more replace them. They are a big fish.


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## RandyS (Feb 6, 2015)

The profile in the library states they get to 7". Have you known them to get that big? I've heard other people say 6". Either way, that's a big fish.
No sign of being skittish yet. It will be interesting to see how it turns out.
Maybe they'll get big enough to fillet.


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## mjmg8rs (Sep 8, 2015)

So I am assuming that this grouping of fish works:
Red zebra
Acei
Rusty
Hara
Dolphin

Or do I need to switch out the red zebra for the yellow lab?
And I know I have to down select to 4 

Mike


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

mjmg8rs said:


> So I am assuming that this grouping of fish works:
> Red zebra
> Acei
> Rusty
> ...


Hara and Dolphin are both blue barred so it "may" be an issue. Also If Dolphins are as timid as some say, the red zebras may be too much for them.


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

mjmg8rs said:


> Ok Clearly - I didn't know what a perlmutt was
> When I went on google and looked up images of perlmutt - I saw a couple that looked just like this.. goes to show you..
> 
> So here is where I am... hopefully final round _ (You guys are very patient!)
> ...


Sounds good!!


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## mjmg8rs (Sep 8, 2015)

After much debate and discussion with my daughter - I have to ask one more question:
Here is the baseline:

Maylandia estherae - Red Zebra
Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" - msuli
Iodotropheus sprengerae - Rusty
Cynotilapia sp. "hara"

If I was going to add one more fish to this list that could survive with the other members of the group - and I was looking for something different - Like an albino... or a different color than is here - does anyone have any suggestions?

If I was going to change the Red Zebra for Yellow Lab - does that make selecting a fifth choice with a color mix any easier..

She is really in charge 
And I understand that in the end I should only have 4 types

Mike


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## DJRansome (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd choose another tank for 5 species...60" or 72". Albino socolofi would work.


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## Mudkicker (Apr 2, 2003)

Stick with four, you'll be grateful in the end. Don't be greedy :lol:


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## master chi (Jan 3, 2010)

master chi said:


> mjmg8rs said:
> 
> 
> > Ok Clearly - I didn't know what a perlmutt was
> ...


Well to quote myself!! Actually I think this sounds like a very nice looking tank,with everyone seeming to fit in just fine. 
I'm going to just go ahead and make my vote now for the future tank boss. Your Male Red Zebra.If not him than the male White top Hara. 
And for the fish that will drive you the craziest in dialing in it's behavior,I vote the Rusty. It's not that there so aggressive,but when it comes to spawning My Rusty males are the roughest on females. I think because mine rarely if ever dig spots for territory.Somehow I think the behavior is related. 
They just chase the females wherever,and will negotiate a spawn wherever. 
My Estherea on the other hand,he digs big ol' spots,and is like so cool with the ladies LOL. Just brings him back to his place. It's like some weird fishy dating scene. You have the young crazy 20 something just chasing them down,and crashing wherever. I.E Rusty.Then you have the older distinguished gentleman with a penthouse view. I.E Estherea.
At least that has been my experience with these mbuna. 
I keep every species in your list,and I have no doubt you will enjoy having them as well. 
White top hara will be the best looking fish in the tank I think.The males are just darn handsome. And the females have really nice blue,which actually can rival some Cobalt Zebras I've seen. 
The Acei are just like the big kids who no one messes with. I've seen these guys chase each other plenty(nothing crazy),but literally every other fish I keep with them seems to be oblivious to their even being there.They look pretty good too. They get big,and females tend to be as nice looking as the males.
Estherea get pretty big too,and I've heard they get pretty rough. I have not seen that. I kept mine in a 55 for a year or so,with no issue. He did seem to chase the females more in there though. Since I moved them to a 125 he has calmed down significantly. But he's my oldest fish too,so maybe he really is the distinguished gentlefish.
Of course I'm just sharing some fun thoughts. Others have experienced different from me for sure in some ways.Some ways not. You will have your own thoughts on them as time goes by as well. But seriously good luck with the buy,I hope you get some really nice specimens to share on here with us sometime


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